Ibogaine List Archives – 2004-07

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] check this out
Date: July 31, 2004 at 11:38:31 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thought some of you might enjoy this.  I take no further responsibility.
Takes a bit of time to load and has a front end strange advertisement (maybe).

http://www.jibjab.com/

Howard

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From: <deartheo@ziplip.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] (this one instead)”Fwd: HHS Orders Political Screening of Scientists
Date: July 31, 2004 at 6:09:50 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.jointogether.org/sa/news/summaries/reader/0%2C1854%2C572529%2C00.html
HHS Orders Political Screening of Scientists
7/6/2004
The U.S. Health and Human Services Department (HHS) told agency scientists that they can no longer participate in World Health Organization (WHO) meetings unless they receive prior approval from a senior political appointee, the Los Angeles Times reported June 26.

WHO has always invited researchers directly to its meetings. But a top HHS official requested that WHO now send invitations to the department’s secretary for review. So far, WHO officials have refused to adhere to the request.

Denis Aitken, WHO assistant director-general, said the request would compromise the independence of international scientific deliberations. But Aitken said he is willing to work with the Bush administration on a compromise.

”It’s an important issue for us,” Aitken said. “We do need independent science. If we want government positions, we have government meetings. We have many, many of these government assemblies, but they address a separate set of concerns than the scientific gatherings.”

Dr. D.A. Henderson, an epidemiologist who acts as an official advisor to HHS Secretary Tommy Thompson, disagrees with the new HHS policy. “I do not feel this is an appropriate or constructive thing to do,” he said “In the scientific world, we have a generally open process. We deal with science as science. I am unaware of such clearance ever having been required before.”

Thompson’s spokesman, Tony Jewell, said the procedure is needed to ensure that the most knowledgeable scientists are attending the WHO meetings. “No one knows better than HHS who the experts are and who can provide the most up-to-date and expert advice,” he said. “The WHO does not know the best people to talk to, but HHS knows. If anyone thinks politics will interfere with Secretary Thompson’s commitment to improve health in every corner of the world, they are sadly mistaken.”

In the past, the Bush administration has been accused of allowing politics to enter scientific deliberations. For instance, the administration replaced prominent scientists with industry and political allies on scientific advisory panels.

Earlier this year, 60 scientists criticized the Bush administration for “misrepresenting and suppressing scientific knowledge for political purposes.” The president’s science advisor, Dr. John Marburger, called the allegations “wrong and misleading, inaccurate.”
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From: <deartheo@ziplip.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fwd: HHS Orders Political Screening of Scientists
Date: July 31, 2004 at 5:43:53 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

undefined
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From: iboga@ziplip.com <iboga@ziplip.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] New ment fresh Bush Tester
Date: July 31, 2004 at 4:19:46 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“Help Is On The Way”  lol!
Yeah, that check seems to be in the mail every 4 years
from both parties.
:  )
I can’t beleive (oh wait, yes I can) that TV ‘news’ has ignored yet another vital story.  I had no idea that the whole manditory mental health testing thing is actually aready going through in someplace in ILL., So Bush would just be taking a ‘working program’ to a national level, which isn’t so bad right?
I’m just so amazed that they can sell the idea without even really hiding the corporate interests of it, what concerns me more then that they are doing it is that they don’t even feel like they should have to hide that it’s all about profits regardless if good or bad long term.  I had similar thoughts when I was in jail, they don’t even PRETEND like they are there to make people productive members of society again or to rehabilitate in any way (someone put in jail for hot checks isn’t given time/guidence/pointers on how to keep checkbook balenced),  they don’t even pretent like it’s not just about the money.  They don’t even pretend.  The guards talk fairly openly about that.  They make a set amount of money for each head, not to mention they have the people do everything (trusteeLabor) except guard the inmates.  Prison and War are good business.  And I guess, “mental health” is too.
spr.org
Nosaj
—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: 31 Jul 04, 12:27 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] On mental health testing
In a message dated 7/31/2004 11:30:53 AM Central Daylight Time, HSLotsof@aol.com writes:
I think that a great deal of concern should be voiced
towards the Bush administration’s concept of testing Americans for mental
disorders.  The issue of Bush using antidepressants being set aside.

I am very concerned about the concept of mandatory mental health testing.
I have not worked a lot of psych but the work I have done exposed me to many Doctors with many ideas and concepts of diagnosing and treating mental illness.
There are some extreme cases of psychosis that must be treated vigorously but there are also neurosis and other less severe psychosis whose treatments vary with each individual Doc and patient.
I am curious to see what they plan to do when they decide you have a mental illness? Will you be branded or tattooed so that everyone will know at a glance who is sane and who is not (by government definition). Or, will you be required to be medicated and be able to prove you are indeed following ‘their’ outlined treatment?
This shit really worries me! I just don’t think they will test you and then not follow through if the results are off the graph.
I for one am very happy that, “Help Is On The Way”  lol!
Callie, a Kerry/Edwards supporter for 2004
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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] On mental health testing
Date: July 31, 2004 at 3:26:43 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/31/2004 11:30:53 AM Central Daylight Time, HSLotsof@aol.com writes:
I think that a great deal of concern should be voiced
towards the Bush administration’s concept of testing Americans for mental
disorders.  The issue of Bush using antidepressants being set aside.

I am very concerned about the concept of mandatory mental health testing.
I have not worked a lot of psych but the work I have done exposed me to many Doctors with many ideas and concepts of diagnosing and treating mental illness.
There are some extreme cases of psychosis that must be treated vigorously but there are also neurosis and other less severe psychosis whose treatments vary with each individual Doc and patient.
I am curious to see what they plan to do when they decide you have a mental illness? Will you be branded or tattooed so that everyone will know at a glance who is sane and who is not (by government definition). Or, will you be required to be medicated and be able to prove you are indeed following ‘their’ outlined treatment?
This shit really worries me! I just don’t think they will test you and then not follow through if the results are off the graph.
I for one am very happy that, “Help Is On The Way”  lol!
Callie, a Kerry/Edwards supporter for 2004

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine) and Aids
Date: July 31, 2004 at 1:08:58 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thank you Howard!

The guy was voluntarily at the mental hospital, didn’t know that he got way
too much interferon for the treatment of Hep.C  his brother went to get his
medication,
When he was at the Hospital.
The family Doctor was on Holidays so he had to see another Doctor who told
him that
The dosage of the interferon was much too high and that his brother should
take only 1/3 of what he was taken, because of that shock the family decided
to stop the interferon treatment and do Iboga, which was very positive also
for his Hep.c I met him few time after, he became a new person.

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: HSLotsof@aol.com [mailto:HSLotsof@aol.com]
Verzonden: zaterdag 31 juli 2004 18:46
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine) and Aids

In a message dated 7/31/04 9:07:19 AM, sara119@xs4all.nl writes:

<< And I don’t turn anyone down who can make it all the way to my house.

I had a patient who was in a mental hospital and his brother and friend

brought him for a treatment , he was an active tripper took thing off the

wall

and talk to spirits for two days, but 6 weeks later he could drive his car

again he got a clear mind after the iboga session, he is still clean three

years later. >>

Sara is the bravest iboga shaman I know.

Howard

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine) and Aids
Date: July 31, 2004 at 12:45:39 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/31/04 9:07:19 AM, sara119@xs4all.nl writes:

<< And I don’t turn anyone down who can make it all the way to my house.

I had a patient who was in a mental hospital and his brother and friend

brought him for a treatment , he was an active tripper took thing off the

wall

and talk to spirits for two days, but 6 weeks later he could drive his car

again he got a clear mind after the iboga session, he is still clean three

years later. >>

Sara is the bravest iboga shaman I know.

Howard

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] coffee shops
Date: July 31, 2004 at 12:43:49 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/31/04 10:41:19 AM, CallieMimosa@aol.com writes:

<<
I am curious, how much is weed in a coffee shop? Are there  different
varieties and strengths? Are they rolled joints or prepackaged? Can  you
sample the
bud before you buy?
I would love to visit Amsterdam or some other place where  coffee shops were
in business!
We are behind here in the USA. Even behind in providing  healthcare to ALL
the citizens….but I don’t need to get on my soap box  today!
Hope this finds all you happy and healthy!
Callie >>

You ought to visit Amsterdam, the coffee shops are a gas if for no other
reason than experiencing a different culture.  Prices are quite reasonable and
most coffee shops have menus like restaurants where you can select from varieties
of hash and grass.  In some few places you can sample but, in most cases you
would be a small amount.

http://www.coffeeshop.freeuk.com/

Howard

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine) and Aids
Date: July 31, 2004 at 12:39:06 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/31/04 6:44:44 AM, BiscuitBoy714@aol.com writes:

<< Are there any reports of any one HIV positive or with AIDS being treated
with
Ibogaine? I realize that the provider would have probably found out after
treatment because they will turn down AIDS patients don’t they? Just
wondering. >>

Treatments organized by NDA International, Inc. of patients who were HIV
positive took place in the Netherlands.  There appeared to be no effect on either
T cell count or any interaction with ibogaine due to HIV.

Howard

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] On mental health testing
Date: July 31, 2004 at 12:29:53 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I was peforming some work for a research project I am conducting and came
across a brief article on the rights of mental patients by Thomas Szazs, a
professor of psychiatry.  I think that a great deal of concern should be voiced
towards the Bush administration’s concept of testing Americans for mental
disorders.  The issue of Bush using antidepressants being set aside.

Howard

ORIGINAL ARTICLE

Thursday, April 3, 2003

Remember psychiatric patient’s civil rights
By THOMAS SZASZ
PSYCHIATRIST

“The madman is not the man who has lost his reason. The madman is the man who
has lost everything except his reason.” — Gilbert K. Chesterton

The Washington Legislature is considering two bills that ostensibly deal with
psychiatric advance directives. I say “ostensibly” because these bills, and
all others like them, are reaffirmations of the mental patient’s status as de
jure medical patient and de facto psychiatric slave.

Barely a century and a half ago, a black man in America was treated as a
slave or as not a slave. Today, every American is potentially in such a position:
He is treated as a mental patient deprived of civil rights or as not a mental
patient possessing civil rights. Once placed in the role of mental patient, he
is, for all practical purposes, a slave of the mental health system.

What is the purpose of a psychiatric advance directive? There are only two
options: A PAD can enhance the powers of relatives and psychiatrists who want to
“treat” people whom they regard as mentally ill or it can enhance the powers
of people designated as mentally ill who want to reject the role of mental
patient and rely on the legal system to support their right to divorce their
would-be benefactors. There is no third possibility.

The supporters of House Bill 1041 and Senate Bill 5223 claim that mental
illnesses are brain diseases. If true, there would be no need for PADs.

No neurological patient — suffering from multiple sclerosis or Parkinson’s
— can be treated against his will. We have no neurological health laws but we
do have mental health laws.

It is bad faith and hypocrisy to ignore the identity of the parties that
support the enactment of mental health laws and PADs.

They are the relatives of so-called mental patients, their powerful lobby,
the National Alliance of the Mentally Ill, and most important, the American
Psychiatric Association. Organizations of former mental patients, who correctly
call themselves victims and survivors of “psychiatric abuse,” are conspicuous by
their absence.

The aims of the supporters of PADS and of the politicians who endorse their
efforts are thinly disguised: They wish to expand the state’s power to “treat”
people for mental illness and obstruct the individual’s power to reject
coercion by psychiatric agents of the state, provided their use of force is called
care or treatment.

Here are three statements from HB1041 that illustrate its aim to tighten the
shackles already fastened on America’s psychiatric slaves: Only an “individual
with capacity has the ability to control decisions relating to his or her own
mental health care.” The proposed PAD does not “supersede a determination of
medical necessity.” The proposed PAD may not “be used as the authority for
inpatient admission for more than 14 days in a 21-day period.”

In other words, in vain would a person execute a PAD for the purpose of
rejecting involuntary psychiatric interventions of all kinds: He could still be
committed and treated against his will. The avowed desires of patients and
doctors conflict far more often in psychiatry — in which “therapeutic”
interventions are routinely imposed on patients against their will — than in any other
branch of medical practice.

Thus, advance directives are particularly important and useful for potential
psychiatric patients, not to permit treatment but to refuse it. Any PAD that
does not offer this option, valid even if contested by psychiatric expert
opinion, serves the interest not of the denominated patient but the interest of his
“benevolent” adversaries.

It may be well for us to remember some remarks on involuntary servitude that,
unhappily, apply equally to our country’s practice of involuntary psychiatry.

James Madison said: “We have seen the mere distinction of color made in the
most enlightened period of time, a ground of the most oppressive dominion ever
exercised by man over man” while Jefferson Davis said: “[Slavery is] a moral,
social, and political blessing . . . [It is] the most humane relations of
labor to capital which can permanently subsist between them.”

The problem we now face is just as clear and just as tragically intractable.
Anglo-American law assumes, as a matter of fact, that the relationship between
a person and a legal agent of the state is adversarial. The student of law is
taught the duties and roles of both prosecuting attorney and defense
attorney. Both jobs are legitimate and proper.

Anglo-American psychiatry assumes, as a matter of law and psychiatry, that
the relationship between a person and a psychiatric agent of the state is
therapeutic. The student of psychiatry is taught only the duties and roles of
psychiatrist administering treatment; the psychiatrist has no other legitimate
duties or roles.

Only the job of the coercive psychiatrist is legitimate and proper. The
psychiatrist who tries to help the coerced patient reject the patient role is
likely to be cast out of the profession as a renegade and rejected by the court as
an expert.

All the so-called ethical problems of psychiatry flow from this source.
Washington state’s proposed psychiatric advance directive pretends to extend the
mental patient’s civil rights but does the opposite: It asks the unsuspecting
patient to sign away his right to be free of psychiatric meddling.

Thomas Szasz, M.D., is professor of psychiatry emeritus at SUNY Health
Science Center in Syracuse, N.Y. His most recent book is “Liberation By Oppression;
A Comparative Study of Slavery and Psychiatry” (Transaction Publishers 2002).

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] coffee shops
Date: July 31, 2004 at 11:39:26 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/30/2004 12:57:23 PM Central Daylight Time, sara119@xs4all.nl writes:
buy the better stuff from the coffee shop

I am curious, how much is weed in a coffee shop? Are there different varieties and strengths? Are they rolled joints or prepackaged? Can you sample the bud before you buy?
I would love to visit Amsterdam or some other place where coffee shops were in business!
We are behind here in the USA. Even behind in providing healthcare to ALL the citizens….but I don’t need to get on my soap box today!
Hope this finds all you happy and healthy!
Callie

From: sara119@xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine) and Aids
Date: July 31, 2004 at 10:06:42 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Are there any reports of any one HIV positive or with AIDS being treated
with
Ibogaine? I realize that the provider would have probably found out after
treatment because they will turn down AIDS patients don’t they? Just
wondering.
Randy

Randy, I have been treated few HIV positive people who also had
Hep C&B. with Iboga extract.
And I don’t turn anyone down who can make it all the way to my house.
I had a patient who was in a mental hospital and his brother and friend
brought him for a treatment , he was an active tripper took thing off the
wall
and talk to spirits for two days, but 6 weeks later he could drive his car
again he got a clear mind after the iboga session, he is still clean three
years later.

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine) and Aids
Date: July 31, 2004 at 7:43:58 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Are there any reports of any one HIV positive or with AIDS being treated with Ibogaine? I realize that the provider would have probably found out after treatment because they will turn down AIDS patients don’t they? Just wondering.        Randy

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] OT! don’t yet know
Date: July 31, 2004 at 7:13:13 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/30/04 11:30:00 PM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

<< Anyway, trying to be cheerful here, going into the opposite-from-manic
state

I sometimes I descend into. >>

Hey Preston,

Just keep on Truckin.

Howard

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] OT! don’t yet know
Date: July 31, 2004 at 12:22:57 AM EDT
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>, <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

HI all,
I was hoping to know today about whether I got the part or not so I
could know about the other thing we usually discuss on this list. But it
appears that if I do get the part, I could be told as late as next week
during the week sometimes as it is shooting lots of different scenes with
lots of different types of actors- so I have to spend the next few days
wondering whether I just didn’t get the part and whether I am still waiting
for the call for nothing, or if I’m going to still get that call somtime
during the week at short notice. I can’t now risk doing my original plan in
the next few days as I’ve REALLY REALLY been wanting and planning to for a
few weeks now due to having to be able to actually get up and go work ALL
DAY ON SET, a LOT more exhausting than one might imagine, on a day’s notice-
meaning I can’t be outta my head and body being “helped not cured” as was
stressed to me the other day as what will happen during that thing we
usually discuss here.
(Thing is, mubo-jumbo as it sounds, I knew better than to tell everyone
I Have/had a call-back, as it can often seem to jinx things- but having
heard the term “it’s one of those ibogaine things,” about how ibogaine tends
to draws thing to where they need to be even prior to even actually coming
into contact with the stuff, and having been some mental/spiritual states
that I tend to buy into the mumbo-jumbo stuff sometimes – I mean, isn’t the
whole ibogaine voyage/speaking with the spirits thing kinda mumbo-jumbo in
and of itself?- Sorry all I’m trying to cheer myself up here and feeling
stupid, bummed, and kinda blue, thinking “ok, maybe this is how things are
supposed to be working out. The powers-that-be work in really fucked up and
mysterious ways.
I don’t know whether to be bummed I’d might not have gotten the part, or
be bummed I have to wait to do the other thing another freakin’ week.
I’m so fucking sick and tired- boy does that sound like a cliche from
hell.
Anyway, trying to be cheerful here, going into the opposite-from-manic state
I sometimes I decend into.
Yuck.
Love you all.
Peace,
Preston

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From: BrittaniaCorgis@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Hi Howard and list
Date: July 30, 2004 at 5:48:41 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

If I do this correctly, it will be a short intro. If not you may all continue what you were doing.
Obviously. 🙂

I am Meredith, fem,52, So. Cal. Desert and am a chronic pain pt/addict. DOC always narcotics. My heavy using/out-of-control days long past for now. But I watch it. I am on Duragesic/fentanyl for severe myofascial pain of 4 yrs duration; the last 16 months being medicated for it. I am so grateful. If you ever hear me bitch about anything ….squash me.
I almost lost my mind from pain. I was given a tour of the nearest Kaiser psych facility for 72 hrs; 3 times. I have not been on MMT YET (yet meaning You’re Eligible Too) but may at anytime should we be without insurance.  Anyhoo I am reading the list and would really enjoy hearing who some of you might be and why you are interested in Ibogaine. I am from a long line of physicians from the East Coast (no, I am not a physician but it’s in my blood) and the info I have gleaned so far is fascinating. Help me learn so I can share with others.
Sincerely,
Meredith

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Key reporter
Date: July 30, 2004 at 4:21:50 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On another front, I’ve gotten one key reporter covering the current
crystal meth epidemic in the gay community and the renewed spread of
AIDS interested to the point that personal testimonials of long-term
efficacy from people like DH might convince him. He’s confused by the
implication on the OASAS website that the ibogaine effect only lasts
for a couple of months.

He doesn’t understand getting unsprung. But he WAS in ACT UP with me,
and I’ve convinced him that the route to getting support and the kind
of sponsorship where Glick et al would actually participate in a
forum lay through the AIDS activist sector, not the drug
reformers–i.e, that Glick wouldn’t show up for something sponsored
principally by Ethan Nadelman, let alone me or Howard.

If we can get this guy and his paper, GAY CITY NEWS, to run an
article questioning why HIV FORUM isn’t doing a session on
experimental medications, it would help both with the NY State
Assembly bill, and with certain Congressmen.

Duncan Osbourn can be reached at duncanto@aol.com

Dana/cnw

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From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Pinpoint yr action re the campaign!
Date: July 30, 2004 at 3:32:05 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dana,
I wasn’t clear.  I would like to request the DHHS policy people by fax or snail mail in both Kerry and Bush camPAINs.  I think if done right and consistantly it could do some good to put them in compitition with one another if a dialoge can be established in an election year.  Like “the (other party) says this”, and let compitition take over from there.
I think Kerry is aware of the Nadar factor and that the Nader factor is real but RSimOnz Wife being arrested for herb while he was at Dem Convention and a slight improvement in the HEA act should not be acceptible as good enough.

We are actually calling on the list to do a number of actions focused on the Kerry campaign in the next month, and here’s why. His platform calls for increased drug treatment, but the only measures specified are more piss tests and more court supervision– neither one of which is TREATMENT, for chrissakes! On the other hand he has advocated science-based approaches in general, and the tough-sounding law ‘n order posturing is probably intended purely to forestall republican attacks.

We had a good info-zap at the Kerry HQ in Boston, got the manager of the entire Mass campaign to come down and talk, and she concluded that we were “friendlies” who just wanted to get our point across in the campaign. Said we’d have to go to D.C. though if we wanted to talk policy.

The issue falls into the crack between law enforcement, health and environmental policies, so we have to show up in D.C. some time this month with 25 or so people, literature, videotapes and give something to every single worker in the Kerry national office. Then follow it up with a meeting with a “committee” from all 3 policy bailiwicks that are affected, and get them to issue a simple statement pledging support for scientific research (i.e, Glick & 18 MC). A statement we can take out to the battlefield states to counter-act Nader, who is represented by Kevin Zeese, who has always been anti-Ibogaine because he sees it as a threat to clinical trials of heroin maintenance.

Meanwhile, you all can approach either Theresa Heinz or Chris Heinz on the the campaign trail in yr home state. Win or lose, her foundation has enough money to fund development of iboga alkaloids single-handedly. Who knows– she might even get into it because its African –that may have been why she came back and got more copies of the Independent article. Her roots, so to speak.

Dana/cnw

From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] no wonder he wants everyone on meds!
Date: July 30, 2004 at 3:00:47 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

then again, we are the choir. It just shows to go you how asleep at the
wheel so many people are in this country to support an administration
such as this… completely oblivious and ignorant of what is really
going on in Washington… as long as their TV is tuned in to FOX, gas
in the tanks of the 2.6 cars in the driveway(preferably SUV in shape),
OLD NAVY clothes in the closet, a 12pack of budweiser on ice and a
bucket of kentucky fried on the dinner table… who needs to think? The
government can do that for you!

Sit back! Relax! Allow yourself to believe…
Conformity is SEXY and productivity rules.
Decision-making can be so taxing; Why not let us express your feelings?
Everything has been designed for your COMFORT and CONVENIENCE.

“Discount Rebellion” – Cop Shoot Cop

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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] no wonder he wants everyone on meds!
Date: July 30, 2004 at 2:47:47 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

All his press conferences are scripted, and when he has to field a real question, posed unexpectedly, he gets that “deer in the headlights’ sort of look and can barely mumble his way through.

no doubt, and they are scripted in 3-5 word phrases that even a 4th grader could recite.

i mean, he is a joke. a scary joke.

then again, we are the choir. It just shows to go you how asleep at the wheel so many people are in this country to support an administration such as this… completely oblivious and ignorant of what is really going on in Washington… as long as their TV is tuned in to FOX, gas in the tanks of the 2.6 cars in the driveway(preferably SUV in shape), OLD NAVY clothes in the closet, a 12pack of budweiser on ice and a bucket of kentucky fried on the dinner table… who needs to think? The government can do that for you!

_.dh

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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] MARIJUANA RESEARCH LAWSUITS TO BE FILED
Date: July 30, 2004 at 1:56:20 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I agree with you Ann, and they want Globalization Control.

Anyways, the Dutch MM is a joke, they grow the plant in a laboratory that
need to give the exact same quality cannabis every Harvest.
Do you grow Camomile Or saffron or pepper in a laboratory?
Beside it is more expensive then the coffee shop and there is no High.
So if the insurance doesn’t pay why would anybody pay for a less product.
High on THC = less smoking , low on THC = more smoking, vaporizing the THC
Uis the best way only the THC is vaporized so if it is low on thc
You  can vaporize for ever and get no high especially if you normally use to
buy the better stuff from the coffee shop.
The thing is no one with low budget can get a permit to grow MM
Because they made strange regulations that only a rich grower can answer,
But again if you like to grow organic lettuce for own medicinal use
There are no regulation needed.
It looks good Dutch MM but the reality is different.

Happy weekend,

Sara

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Ann B. Mullikin [mailto:think@francomm.com]
Verzonden: vrijdag 30 juli 2004 17:07
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [ibogaine] MARIJUANA RESEARCH LAWSUITS TO BE FILED

Just think of all the IMPORTANT things that need attention from the FDA that
are ignored – money, time, etc. ……in order to pursue this senseless and
harmful
activity.

I’m angry and disgusted and worried about a government that controls too
many parts of our life that has no better ability to make intelligent
decisions.

ann
think@francomm.com

—– Original Message —–
From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 11:50 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] MARIJUANA RESEARCH LAWSUITS TO BE FILED

MARIJUANA RESEARCH LAWSUITS TO BE FILED

Author:  Holly Angelo; Published:  Thursday, July 22, 2004

Copyright:  2004 The Republican (Springfield, MA)

Website: http://www.masslive.com/republican/  Amherst —

All Lyle E. Craker wants to do is grow marijuana in his lab at the

University of Massachusetts to supply other scientists with the plant so

studies about its medicinal benefits can take place.  But after filing

an application with the federal Drug Enforcement Administration in June

2001 to establish a facility on the Amherst campus to produce marijuana

for U.S. Food and Drug Administration-approved research, he hasn’t

received a yes or no.

To get an answer, Craker has teamed with two other parties as plaintiffs

in one of two lawsuits scheduled to be filed today that accuses the

federal government with obstructing medical marijuana research.

“I’m hoping the lawsuit will bring a response,” Craker said from his

office in Stockbridge Hall yesterday, where he is the director of the

medicinal plant program and member of the department of plant, soil and

insect sciences.  “It’s unfortunate, but the issue probably has to be

forced here (in the courts).”

The two suits are supposed to be filed in the U.S. Court of Appeals in

Washington, D.C.  The first suit is filed by the Multidisciplinary

Association for Psychedelic Studies; Craker and Valerie Corral, a

California-licensed medical marijuana patient and caregiver, against the

Drug Enforcement Administration.  It seeks a decision on Craker’s

request and a request by Chemic Laboratories of Canton to import 10

grams of marijuana from the Dutch Office of Medicinal Cannabis, for use

in a medical marijuana research project investigating the safety

advantages of a nonsmoking delivery device for marijuana by a vaporizer.

The second suit is filed by the association and Corral against the

federal Department of Health and Human Services, the National Institute

on Drug Abuse and the National Institutes of Health.  It also seeks a

final ruling by the agencies on Chemic’s request for marijuana and the

vaporizer study.

The Drug Enforcement Administration and National Institute on Drug Abuse

would not comment on the suits.

“We’re arguing unreasonable delay,” said Rick E. Doblin, president of

the association, based in Sarasota, Fla.  “We are blocked from growing

our own (marijuana) at UMass Amherst.  We are blocked from importing

from the Dutch Office of Medicinal Cannabis, and we are blocked from

purchasing from the government’s supply.”

U.S. Senators John F. Kerry and Edward M. Kennedy sent a letter to the

Drug Enforcement Administration in October 2003 expressing support for

the UMass-Amherst marijuana research production facility.

—————-

MAPS_Forum@maps.org, a member service of the Multidisciplinary Association

for Psychedelic Studies (see www.maps.org/cgi-bin/thatsanorder_LE ).

To [un]subscribe, email the message text,

[un]subscribe maps_forum youraddress to majordomo@maps.org

List archives can be browsed at www.maps.org/forum

Guidelines for authors: www.maps.org/guidelines.txt

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] *Howard&Dana*Hypothetical question
Date: July 30, 2004 at 1:18:30 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The FDA approved ibogaine for phase I clinical safety studies but, not for
marketing.

Howard

In a message dated 7/30/04 11:35:18 AM, deartheo@ziplip.com writes:

<< “The drug has not been approved by the

FDA for use in the United States since animal studies in this country have
not

been conclusive.”

I thought that the FDA approved the research but funding was the issue.  Is
that not right? And correct me if I’m wrong but I beleive the last time I
checked the most USgovenrment funded “anti-addiction” studies were involved in
variations of methadone.  So no government or private funds even though FDA
approved.  Then St.Kitts opened and Mr. Glick is hopefully too busy with his work.
It would be nice to try MC18, some mad scientist person who thinks things
should move forward quicker with it will make a pepsi to it and it will go from
there.  But it interesting to compair them to extract and HCL.   >>

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From: <deartheo@ziplip.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] *Dana*Contact Info
Date: July 30, 2004 at 1:08:15 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dana,
I wasn’t clear.  I would like to request the DHHS policy people by fax or snail mail in both Kerry and Bush camPAINs.  I think if done right and consistantly it could do some good to put them in compitition with one another if a dialoge can be established in an election year.  Like “the (other party) says this”, and let compitition take over from there.
I think Kerry is aware of the Nadar factor and that the Nader factor is real but RSimOnz Wife being arrested for herb while he was at Dem Convention and a slight improvement in the HEA act should not be acceptible as good enough.
He seems to really want to be the national security guy.  Well, if we regulated currently illegal drugs (we do it with methadone, and it has shown clear results, it makes fiscal sense to do it with others too), if we regulate the current drug market we take allot of economic opportunities from terrorist.
As far as Ibogaine or MC18 or whatever, it can be tied to lessoning the demand for drugs decreases economic opportunities for terrorist thus making America safer in both failed police approach and regulation.
Ibogaine/MC18 helps our economy by making more citizens productive members of society, not to mention the 11.7 Billion that we are spending for current drug war being able to be applied to war on terror or healthcare or hey, here’s a novel idea maybe pay off debt so our children aren’t worse off then us.  I think voting Bush out of office is important as to the message it sends that the American people don’t support such arrogance, and do not believe in pre-emptive strikes, or suppressing science in the name of religious dogma and big business lobby profits
Ibogaine/MC18 is tied to healthcare for the obvious reasons.  By the way what is the scientific ibogaine site that has all the really technical stuff that scientist like and seems to give credibility with these type mentality of people.
Kerry and Bush both need to know that organizations like leap.cc (law enforcment against prohibition) exist.  I have talked to plenty people latley and I find that about 5 people out of 100 are not for medical marijauana, when I ask if they think that medicine that helps people should be illegal if going door to door.
So I think if either party were smart they would take a good look at what people are wanting.  Problem is illegal drug money makes so much money that government is saturated in it that the politicians themselves are puppets with strings, you know, the man behind the man behind the man factor, they probably couldn’t embrace it even if they wanted to.  Not to mention it ties the hands of our current prop ’em up with poppies or coca support of ‘friendly nations’.

Ok no more politics, it’s getting like a used car sale

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From: <deartheo@ziplip.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] *Howard&Dana*Hypothetical question
Date: July 30, 2004 at 12:34:02 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“The drug has not been approved by the
FDA for use in the United States since animal studies in this country have not
been conclusive.”

I thought that the FDA approved the research but funding was the issue.  Is that not right? And correct me if I’m wrong but I beleive the last time I checked the most USgovenrment funded “anti-addiction” studies were involved in variations of methadone.  So no government or private funds even though FDA approved.  Then St.Kitts opened and Mr. Glick is hopefully too busy with his work.  It would be nice to try MC18, some mad scientist person who thinks things should move forward quicker with it will make a pepsi to it and it will go from there.  But it interesting to compair them to extract and HCL.
I really think Howard should contact Howard Stern.
Dana I would like to write a letter few letters to DHHS policy people and Mrs.Kerry, if you have their fax numbers handy I’d appreciate it.  I hope everyone is well, especially those who are returning from journeys.

Be Well,
Jason
iboga.wmatrix.net
—–Original Message—–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com [mailto:HSLotsof@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004, 10:04 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Hypothetical question

In a message dated 7/29/04 5:43:45 AM, BiscuitBoy714@aol.com writes:

<< Here is my hypothetical question or
survey I’d like to run. Poll all Dr.’s in the US and ask them of all the
patients
they have on pain meds, diet pills, and benzo’s how many of them have a
problem with them. Then ask the same of patients all anonymously of course.
How
many of these people would take Ibogaine if given a choice?That is if they
even
know about it.That’s a lot of people to say no to. Information is power.
Power
to the people. Remember that?       Randy >>

Randy,

While not exactly an answer to your question two related questionnaries were
provided to providers and patients. The second abstract has not yet been
presented as the meeting takes place in November 2004.

It might be useful for this list to discuss these abstracts.

Howard

http://apha.confex.com/apha/131am/techprogram/paper_71058.htm

4094.0: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 – Board 2

Abstract #71058

Attitudes toward medication to treat heroin dependency

Marilyn Daley, PhD, Schneider Institute for Health Policy, Heller School for
Social Policy and Management, Brandeis University, MS 035, 415 South Street,
Waltham, MA 02454-9110, 781-736-3906, daley@brandeis.edu, Traci Rieckmann,
PhD,
Department of Public Health and Preventive Medicine, Oregon Health Sciences
University, 3181 S.W. Sam Jackson Park Road, Portland, OR 97201-3098, Dennis
McCarty, PhD, Department of Public Helath and Preventive Medicine, Oregon
Health
Sciences University, 3181 SW Samuel Jackson Park Road, Portland, OR 97201,
Cindy Thomas, PhD, Brandeis University Schneider Health Policy Institute,
Heller
Graduate School, 415 South Street, Waltham, MA 02454, and Kathleen Keck,
MMHS, University of Miami, School of Medicine, Coral Gables, FL 33124.
Despite advances in the development of medications to treat addictive
disorders, they are underutilized in community-based drug treatment programs.
To
discover how the treatment community feels about using medication to treat
heroin
dependency, Brandeis and Oregon Health Sciences University surveyed clients
and counselors in residential, outpatient and methadone programs in
Massachusetts and Oregon. Using the Azjen-Fishbein Theory of Reasoned Action
as a
theoretical framework, focus groups were used to develop a questionnaire which
was
subsequently pilot-tested with 83 clients and 61 staff members. Questions
focused
on four medications (Methadone, Clonidine, Buprenorphine and Ibogaine).
T-tests, Anovas and multiple regression analyses were used to identify
normative
influences, beliefs, expectancies, treatment settings and personal
characteristics that predicted favorable or unfavorable attitudes. Although
staff had
become more accepting toward medication due to the increasing prevalence of
dual
diagnosis, the effectiveness of many medications and the spread of HIV, most
clients felt that medication interfered with recovery and should only be used
for
withdrawal. Methadone was viewed more positively than any of the drugs,
although many were guardedly optimistic about Buprenorphine’s potential.
Clonidine
was perceived as ineffective in the treatment of heroin dependence. Counselors
were more receptive to all drugs than clients. Resistance to the use of
pharmacotherapy was particularly pronounced among the former heroin users in
residential programs. A larger survey is underway with 1080 clients and 360
counselors. Results will be used to inform policy and practice regarding the
successful adoption and implementation of effective new practices.
Learning Objectives: 1. Describe at least four major medications that have
been developed to treat heroin dependency 2. Discuss historical barriers to
adopting and implementing new pharmacotherapies in drug abuse treatment
programs
3. Identify the social norms, expectancies, beliefs, and values that are
associated with favorable and unfavorable attitudes toward medication 3.
Recognize
why developing and testing new medications are important for HIV prevention
Keywords: Drug Abuse Treatment, Injection Drug Users
Related Web page:

Presenting author’s disclosure statement:
Organization/institution whose products or services will be discussed: None
I do not have any significant financial interest/arrangement or affiliation
with any organization/institution whose products or services are being
discussed in this session.
The 131st Annual Meeting (November 15-19, 2003) of APHA

http://apha.confex.com/apha/132am/techprogram/paper_92812.htmhttp://apha.confe
x.com/apha/132am/techprogram/paper_92812.htm

4095.0: Tuesday, November 9, 2004 – Board 8

Abstract #92812

Attitudes toward ibogaine among clients and counselors in drug treatment
programs
Marilyn C. Daley, PhD1, Dennis McCarty, PhD2, Cindy Parks Thomas, PA, PhD1,
and Traci Rieckmann, PhD3. (1) Schneider Institute for Health Policy, Brandeis
University, Heller School for Social Policy and Management, P.O. Box 9110, 415
South Street, Waltham, MA 02454-9110, 781-736-3906, daley@brandeis.edu, (2)
Department of Public Helath and Preventive Medicine, Oregon Health Sciences
University, 3181 SW Samuel Jackson Park Road, Portland, OR 97201, (3)
Department
of Public Health and Preventive Medicine, Oregon Health Sciences University,
3181 S.W. Sam Jackson Park Road, Portland, OR 97201-3098
While recent years have witnessed a 25% increase in the use of complementary
and alternative medications, none of these have come into widespread use in
the treatment of opiate dependence. Ibogaine, an hallucinogenic substance from
the bark of the Iboga tree in Gabon, has enjoyed a cult following in Europe
and
Africa for some time. Enthusiasts claim that after ingesting Ibogaine once,
their desire for heroin is gone forever. The drug has not been approved by the
FDA for use in the United States since animal studies in this country have not
been conclusive. To discover whether the treatment community would approve of
using Ibogaine treat heroin dependency, Brandeis and Oregon Health & Sciences
University surveyed 1,461 clients and counselors in residential, outpatient
and methadone programs in Massachusetts and Oregon. Using the Azjen-Fishbein
Theory of Reasoned Action as a theoretical framework, the 8 page questionnaire
focused on four medications that are used to treat heroin addiction: Ibogaine,
Buprenorphine, Methadone and Clonidine. Multiple regression analysis was used
to identify demographic characteristics, normative influences and attitudinal
factors that were associated with intentions to take Ibogaine. Although 10% of
clients and counselors had heard of Ibogaine, none of them had ever used this
medication. A substantial minority of 12%, or 161 people, however, claimed
that they would use Ibogaine if they had the opportunity. Males, clients (as
opposed to counselors), individuals in outpatient clinics, blacks respondents
and
respondents with less education were more likely to say that they intended to
use Ibogaine.
Learning Objectives:

After attending this session, the audience should be able to (* identify the
benefits and drawbacks of Ibogaine, a herbal medication for drug addiction; (
*   describe why treatment programs may be more receptive to herbal
medications than to conventional pharmaceuticals; (
*   discuss whether or not Ibogaine should be approved for use in the U.S.

Keywords: Drug Abuse Treatment, Alternative Medicine/Therapies
Presenting author’s disclosure statement:
I do not have any significant financial interest/arrangement or affiliation
with any organization/institution whose products or services are being
discussed in this session.
Substance Abuse Treatment Experiences Poster Session
The 132nd Annual Meeting (November 6-10, 2004) of APHA

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From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] no wonder he wants everyone on meds!
Date: July 30, 2004 at 12:14:40 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sara, you ask the right questions and make the right statements.
Julian

From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] MARIJUANA RESEARCH LAWSUITS TO BE FILED
Date: July 30, 2004 at 11:06:54 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Just think of all the IMPORTANT things that need attention from the FDA that
are ignored – money, time, etc. ……in order to pursue this senseless and
harmful
activity.

I’m angry and disgusted and worried about a government that controls too
many parts of our life that has no better ability to make intelligent
decisions.

ann
think@francomm.com

—– Original Message —–
From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 11:50 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] MARIJUANA RESEARCH LAWSUITS TO BE FILED

MARIJUANA RESEARCH LAWSUITS TO BE FILED

Author:  Holly Angelo; Published:  Thursday, July 22, 2004

Copyright:  2004 The Republican (Springfield, MA)

Website: http://www.masslive.com/republican/  Amherst —

All Lyle E. Craker wants to do is grow marijuana in his lab at the

University of Massachusetts to supply other scientists with the plant so

studies about its medicinal benefits can take place.  But after filing

an application with the federal Drug Enforcement Administration in June

2001 to establish a facility on the Amherst campus to produce marijuana

for U.S. Food and Drug Administration-approved research, he hasn’t

received a yes or no.

To get an answer, Craker has teamed with two other parties as plaintiffs

in one of two lawsuits scheduled to be filed today that accuses the

federal government with obstructing medical marijuana research.

“I’m hoping the lawsuit will bring a response,” Craker said from his

office in Stockbridge Hall yesterday, where he is the director of the

medicinal plant program and member of the department of plant, soil and

insect sciences.  “It’s unfortunate, but the issue probably has to be

forced here (in the courts).”

The two suits are supposed to be filed in the U.S. Court of Appeals in

Washington, D.C.  The first suit is filed by the Multidisciplinary

Association for Psychedelic Studies; Craker and Valerie Corral, a

California-licensed medical marijuana patient and caregiver, against the

Drug Enforcement Administration.  It seeks a decision on Craker’s

request and a request by Chemic Laboratories of Canton to import 10

grams of marijuana from the Dutch Office of Medicinal Cannabis, for use

in a medical marijuana research project investigating the safety

advantages of a nonsmoking delivery device for marijuana by a vaporizer.

The second suit is filed by the association and Corral against the

federal Department of Health and Human Services, the National Institute

on Drug Abuse and the National Institutes of Health.  It also seeks a

final ruling by the agencies on Chemic’s request for marijuana and the

vaporizer study.

The Drug Enforcement Administration and National Institute on Drug Abuse

would not comment on the suits.

“We’re arguing unreasonable delay,” said Rick E. Doblin, president of

the association, based in Sarasota, Fla.  “We are blocked from growing

our own (marijuana) at UMass Amherst.  We are blocked from importing

from the Dutch Office of Medicinal Cannabis, and we are blocked from

purchasing from the government’s supply.”

U.S. Senators John F. Kerry and Edward M. Kennedy sent a letter to the

Drug Enforcement Administration in October 2003 expressing support for

the UMass-Amherst marijuana research production facility.

—————-

MAPS_Forum@maps.org, a member service of the Multidisciplinary Association

for Psychedelic Studies (see www.maps.org/cgi-bin/thatsanorder_LE ).

To [un]subscribe, email the message text,

[un]subscribe maps_forum youraddress to majordomo@maps.org

List archives can be browsed at www.maps.org/forum

Guidelines for authors: www.maps.org/guidelines.txt

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine, and hewlett packard
Date: July 30, 2004 at 7:03:53 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Your not really in that bad of a position.  You’ve been waiting so long a
little while longer won’t hurt.<

I know, I know, I win either way, whether I get the part or not.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 2:27 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine, and hewlett packard

Hi Preston,

Hey, what’s the problem, you do the commercial, make some money, then do the
igobo and clean up and maybe have insurance to boot.  Not to mention the
fact that maybe you can do another and another and be in better shape.  Your
not really in that bad of a position.  You’ve been waiting so long a little
while longer won’t hurt.  Maybe good luck is coming your way.  I’m wishing
you the best and I think the others are too.

Best to ya,

– JIM

HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 7/29/04 1:23:50 PM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

<< Hey all- as I just wrote to my drugwar list too- please wish well in my

direction,

as it looked like I was going to actually be trying ibogaine in the very,

very near future, but now it looks like I have to put it off a week or so

due to getting a call-back for a Hewlett Packard commercial tonight- which

shoots all week next week. I can’t BELIEVE I’m bumming out at the

possibility of landing a principle part in a commercial (if I get it- that’s

MEDICAL INSURANCE FINALLY!!! I mean, one has to make a certain amount in a

year’s time through SAG to qualify for insurance, which I’ve never done in

the last 6 and a half, nearly 7 years of being in SAG) due to wanting to try

ibogaine.

Weird how “god” works, no? Telling me to! “hurry up and be patient.”

So anyway, think good stong thoughts my way please- if I do land this

stinkin’ commercial I have to see my pain doc a week early to make sure I

have enough pain meds to get through 6 days of commercial shooting- egad.

I’m soooo confused feeling right now.

Hi Preston,

Do you play an ibogaine patient who increases hp efficiency some hundreds of
percent due to the miraculous effects of ibogaine? OK I will stop now.

Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [drugwar] Fw: [ibogaine] MARIJUANA RESEARCH LAWSUITS TO BE FILED
Date: July 30, 2004 at 7:02:04 AM EDT
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: drugwar@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 11:50 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] MARIJUANA RESEARCH LAWSUITS TO BE FILED

MARIJUANA RESEARCH LAWSUITS TO BE FILED

Author:  Holly Angelo; Published:  Thursday, July 22, 2004

Copyright:  2004 The Republican (Springfield, MA)

Website: http://www.masslive.com/republican/  Amherst —

All Lyle E. Craker wants to do is grow marijuana in his lab at the

University of Massachusetts to supply other scientists with the plant so

studies about its medicinal benefits can take place.  But after filing

an application with the federal Drug Enforcement Administration in June

2001 to establish a facility on the Amherst campus to produce marijuana

for U.S. Food and Drug Administration-approved research, he hasn’t

received a yes or no.

To get an answer, Craker has teamed with two other parties as plaintiffs

in one of two lawsuits scheduled to be filed today that accuses the

federal government with obstructing medical marijuana research.

“I’m hoping the lawsuit will bring a response,” Craker said from his

office in Stockbridge Hall yesterday, where he is the director of the

medicinal plant program and member of the department of plant, soil and

insect sciences.  “It’s unfortunate, but the issue probably has to be

forced here (in the courts).”

The two suits are supposed to be filed in the U.S. Court of Appeals in

Washington, D.C.  The first suit is filed by the Multidisciplinary

Association for Psychedelic Studies; Craker and Valerie Corral, a

California-licensed medical marijuana patient and caregiver, against the

Drug Enforcement Administration.  It seeks a decision on Craker’s

request and a request by Chemic Laboratories of Canton to import 10

grams of marijuana from the Dutch Office of Medicinal Cannabis, for use

in a medical marijuana research project investigating the safety

advantages of a nonsmoking delivery device for marijuana by a vaporizer.

The second suit is filed by the association and Corral against the

federal Department of Health and Human Services, the National Institute

on Drug Abuse and the National Institutes of Health.  It also seeks a

final ruling by the agencies on Chemic’s request for marijuana and the

vaporizer study.

The Drug Enforcement Administration and National Institute on Drug Abuse

would not comment on the suits.

“We’re arguing unreasonable delay,” said Rick E. Doblin, president of

the association, based in Sarasota, Fla.  “We are blocked from growing

our own (marijuana) at UMass Amherst.  We are blocked from importing

from the Dutch Office of Medicinal Cannabis, and we are blocked from

purchasing from the government’s supply.”

U.S. Senators John F. Kerry and Edward M. Kennedy sent a letter to the

Drug Enforcement Administration in October 2003 expressing support for

the UMass-Amherst marijuana research production facility.

—————-

MAPS_Forum@maps.org, a member service of the Multidisciplinary Association

for Psychedelic Studies (see www.maps.org/cgi-bin/thatsanorder_LE ).

To [un]subscribe, email the message text,

[un]subscribe maps_forum youraddress to majordomo@maps.org

List archives can be browsed at www.maps.org/forum

Guidelines for authors: www.maps.org/guidelines.txt

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] no wonder he wants everyone on meds!
Date: July 30, 2004 at 2:55:00 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi All,
In a message dated 7/29/04 3:10:01 PM, sara119@xs4all.nl writes:
<< Maybe he is going to have his own private army?  >>
That may be the secret service or the US military.
Howard

I think it would be more like the space cadets.

D. H. said something like it begins with i and ends with e

He would still be a moron

– JIM

HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 7/29/04 3:10:01 PM, sara119@xs4all.nl writes:

<< Maybe he is going to have his own private army? >>

That may be the secret service or the US military.

Howard

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From: raven <raven@darkwingbird.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] no wonder he wants everyone on meds!
Date: July 30, 2004 at 2:54:00 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

BUSH:
Wrecks his bike and smacks his head…shows up with scrapes to confirm the story.
Chokes on a pretzel, passes out, and smacks his head…shows up with scrapes and bruises to confirm the story.
Reports of Nixon-like tirades against his “enemies.”
Reports that he’s on anti-depressants due to anger and stress.

My vote, as a former counselor and methadone pimp, says he’s still drinking heavy, and they just sober him up and pump him full of pills when it’s time to slap him up on stage. He’s a whack-job. All his press conferences are scripted, and when he has to field a real question, posed unexpectedly, he gets that “deer in the headlights’ sort of look and can barely mumble his way through.

-RickV

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] no wonder he wants everyone on meds!
Date: July 30, 2004 at 2:41:04 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi All,

I love this country, it’s the politicians I do not like.  Oh well, I guess I can do my part.  I’ll volunteer to be in charge of the poppy fields.I

– JIM
Sara Glatt <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:
This must be some propaganda,  how powerful his medication is? How many times a day is he taking them? maybe he had them for his wife or just for a bad day?
Why would he take medication in the first place? Does his Doctor knows what privacy is?   his is the president he doesn’t need to be depressed ,
He is powerful has nice family and lot of cash, the only thing is  his father isn’t so happy to have him out of office,
It isn’t so easy to “let Go” , addiction to a powerful position. How is he going to get Osama?  Who is going to control the opium fields in Afghanistan?
Maybe he is going to have his own private army?
This man has a lot on his mind , at the same time he has many minds thinking for him,
Just wondering???

S.

Van: Dana Beal [mailto:dana@cures-not-wars.org] 
Verzonden: donderdag 29 juli 2004 21:31
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: [ibogaine] no wonder he wants everyone on meds!

News: Elections/Legislation/Government
George Bush Using Hard-Core Anti-Depressants: Handlers Don’t Want Him Flying
Off The Handle
Submitted by m
Original Publisher: Capitol Hill Blue
From Capitol Hill Blue

Bush Leagues
Bush Using Drugs to Control Depression, Erratic Behavior
By TERESA HAMPTON
Editor, Capitol Hill Blue
Jul 28, 2004, 08:09

President George W. Bush is taking powerful anti-depressant drugs to control
his erratic behavior, depression and paranoia, Capitol Hill Blue has
learned.

The prescription drugs, administered by Col. Richard J. Tubb, the White
House physician, can impair the President’s mental faculties and decrease
both his physical capabilities and his ability to respond to a crisis,
administration aides admit privately.
ŸIt’s a double-edged sword,— says one aide. ŸWe can’t have him flying off
the handle at the slightest provocation but we also need a President who is
alert mentally.—
Angry Bush walked away from reporter’s questions.
Tubb prescribed the anti-depressants after a clearly-upset Bush stormed off
stage on July 8, refusing to answer reporters’ questions about his
relationship with indicted Enron executive Kenneth J. Lay.
ŸKeep those motherfuckers away from me,— he screamed at an aide backstage.
ŸIf you can’t, I’ll find someone who can.—

Bush’s mental stability has become the topic of Washington whispers in
recent months. Capitol Hill Blue first reported on June 4 about increasing
concern among White House aides over the President’s wide mood swings and
obscene outbursts.

Although GOP loyalists dismissed the reports an anti-Bush propaganda, the
reports were later confirmed by prominent George Washington University
psychiatrist Dr. Justin Frank in his book Bush on the Couch: Inside the Mind
of the President. Dr. Frank diagnosed the President as a Ÿparanoid
meglomaniac— and Ÿuntreated alcoholic— whose Ÿlifelong streak of sadism,
ranging from childhood pranks (using firecrackers to explode frogs) to
insulting journalists, gloating over state executions and pumping his hand
gleefully before the bombing of Baghdad— showcase Bush’s instabilities.
©ŸI was really very unsettled by him and I started watching everything he did
and reading what he wrote and watching him on videotape. I felt he was
disturbed,— Dr. Frank said. ŸHe fits the profile of a former drinker whose
alcoholism has been arrested but not treated.—

Dr. Frank’s conclusions have been praised by other prominent psychiatrists,
including Dr. James Grotstein, Professor at UCLA Medical Center, and Dr.
Irvin Yalom, MD, Professor Emeritus at Stanford University Medical School.

The doctors also worry about the wisdom of giving powerful anti-depressant
drugs to a person with a history of chemical dependency. Bush is an admitted
alcoholic, although he never sought treatment in a formal program, and
stories about his cocaine use as a younger man haunted his campaigns for
Texas governor and his first campaign for President.

ŸPresident Bush is an untreated alcoholic with paranoid and megalomaniac
tendencies,— Dr. Frank adds.
The White House did not return phone calls seeking comment on this article.

Although the exact drugs Bush takes to control his depression and behavior
are not known, White House sources say they are Ÿpowerful medications—
designed to bring his erratic actions under control.

While Col. Tubb regularly releases a synopsis of the President’s annual physical, details of
the President’s health and any drugs or treatment he may receive are not
public record and are guarded zealously by the secretive cadre of aides that
surround the President.

Veteran White House watchers say the ability to control information about
Bush’s health, either physical or mental, is similar to Ronald Reagan’s
second term when aides managed to conceal the President’s increasing memory
lapses that signaled the onslaught of Alzheimer’s Disease.

It also brings back memories of Richard Nixon’s final days when the
soon-to-resign President wondered the halls and talked to portraits of
former Presidents. The stories didn’t emerge until after Nixon left office.

One long-time GOP political consultant who  for obvious reasons  asked not
to be identified said he is advising his Republican Congressional candidates
to keep their distance from Bush.

”We have to face the very real possibility that the President of the United
States is loony tunes,” he says sadly. “That’s not good for my candidates,
it’s not good for the party and it’s certainly not good for the country.”

© Copyright 2004 Capitol Hill Blue

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine, and hewlett packard
Date: July 30, 2004 at 2:27:26 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Preston,

Hey, what’s the problem, you do the commercial, make some money, then do the igobo and clean up and maybe have insurance to boot.  Not to mention the fact that maybe you can do another and another and be in better shape.  Your not really in that bad of a position.  You’ve been waiting so long a little while longer won’t hurt.  Maybe good luck is coming your way.  I’m wishing you the best and I think the others are too.

Best to ya,

– JIM

HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 7/29/04 1:23:50 PM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

<< Hey all- as I just wrote to my drugwar list too- please wish well in my

direction,

as it looked like I was going to actually be trying ibogaine in the very,

very near future, but now it looks like I have to put it off a week or so

due to getting a call-back for a Hewlett Packard commercial tonight- which

shoots all week next week. I can’t BELIEVE I’m bumming out at the

possibility of landing a principle part in a commercial (if I get it- that’s

MEDICAL INSURANCE FINALLY!!! I mean, one has to make a certain amount in a

year’s time through SAG to qualify for insurance, which I’ve never done in

the last 6 and a half, nearly 7 years of being in SAG) due to wanting to try

ibogaine.

Weird how “god” works, no? Telling me to “hurry up and be patient.”

So anyway, think good stong thoughts my way please- if I do land this

stinkin’ commercial I have to see my pain doc a week early to make sure I

have enough pain meds to get through 6 days of commercial shooting- egad.

I’m soooo confused feeling right now.

>>

Hi Preston,

Do you play an ibogaine patient who increases hp efficiency some hundreds of
percent due to the miraculous effects of ibogaine? OK I will stop now.

Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] no wonder he wants everyone on meds!
Date: July 30, 2004 at 2:18:58 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi All,

Bush, hmmmmm   I think Thorazine would be a good one for him.  Just my opinion.  Twice he fell off a bike, you would think he would be able to afford training wheels.

– JIM

D H <dave@phantom.com> wrote:

>>
>> Bush Leagues
>> Bush Using Drugs to Control Depression, Erratic Behavior
>> By TERESA HAMPTON
>> Editor, Capitol Hill Blue
>> Jul 28, 2004, 08:09
>>
>
> i wonder what drugs he’s on?

i dunno but i could suggest a few… :^P

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] MARIJUANA RESEARCH LAWSUITS TO BE FILED
Date: July 29, 2004 at 11:50:43 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

MARIJUANA RESEARCH LAWSUITS TO BE FILED

Author:  Holly Angelo; Published:  Thursday, July 22, 2004

Copyright:  2004 The Republican (Springfield, MA)

Website: http://www.masslive.com/republican/  Amherst —

All Lyle E. Craker wants to do is grow marijuana in his lab at the

University of Massachusetts to supply other scientists with the plant so

studies about its medicinal benefits can take place.  But after filing

an application with the federal Drug Enforcement Administration in June

2001 to establish a facility on the Amherst campus to produce marijuana

for U.S. Food and Drug Administration-approved research, he hasn’t

received a yes or no.

To get an answer, Craker has teamed with two other parties as plaintiffs

in one of two lawsuits scheduled to be filed today that accuses the

federal government with obstructing medical marijuana research.

“I’m hoping the lawsuit will bring a response,” Craker said from his

office in Stockbridge Hall yesterday, where he is the director of the

medicinal plant program and member of the department of plant, soil and

insect sciences.  “It’s unfortunate, but the issue probably has to be

forced here (in the courts).”

The two suits are supposed to be filed in the U.S. Court of Appeals in

Washington, D.C.  The first suit is filed by the Multidisciplinary

Association for Psychedelic Studies; Craker and Valerie Corral, a

California-licensed medical marijuana patient and caregiver, against the

Drug Enforcement Administration.  It seeks a decision on Craker’s

request and a request by Chemic Laboratories of Canton to import 10

grams of marijuana from the Dutch Office of Medicinal Cannabis, for use

in a medical marijuana research project investigating the safety

advantages of a nonsmoking delivery device for marijuana by a vaporizer.

The second suit is filed by the association and Corral against the

federal Department of Health and Human Services, the National Institute

on Drug Abuse and the National Institutes of Health.  It also seeks a

final ruling by the agencies on Chemic’s request for marijuana and the

vaporizer study.

The Drug Enforcement Administration and National Institute on Drug Abuse

would not comment on the suits.

“We’re arguing unreasonable delay,” said Rick E. Doblin, president of

the association, based in Sarasota, Fla.  “We are blocked from growing

our own (marijuana) at UMass Amherst.  We are blocked from importing

from the Dutch Office of Medicinal Cannabis, and we are blocked from

purchasing from the government’s supply.”

U.S. Senators John F. Kerry and Edward M. Kennedy sent a letter to the

Drug Enforcement Administration in October 2003 expressing support for

the UMass-Amherst marijuana research production facility.

—————-

MAPS_Forum@maps.org, a member service of the Multidisciplinary Association

for Psychedelic Studies (see www.maps.org/cgi-bin/thatsanorder_LE ).

To [un]subscribe, email the message text,

[un]subscribe maps_forum youraddress to majordomo@maps.org

List archives can be browsed at www.maps.org/forum

Guidelines for authors: www.maps.org/guidelines.txt

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine, and hewlett packard
Date: July 29, 2004 at 9:51:48 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Your probably there sweating bullets right now, I’m always late, but, break
a leg dude.<

Thanks Randy.
They changed what they wanted me to audition for at the very last second,
“you look more punk rock than raverish,” but I won’t know until tomorrow if
I got it- so more bullet sweating until then.
Grrr.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 8:07 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine, and hewlett packard

Your probably there sweating bullets right now, I’m always late, but, break
a leg dude. Aint that what you say to them thesbeins ? Really man, I hope
you get it. You deserve to get what you strive for.      Randy

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] no wonder he wants everyone on meds!
Date: July 29, 2004 at 8:17:26 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Bush might be the biggest nut, but he sure isn’t the only prez to take drugs. Some of them did drugs we would be jealous of. Had there own Docs too. Should we start naming names and guessing drugs or just leave it alone? Sounds like fun don’t it.     Randy

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine, and hewlett packard
Date: July 29, 2004 at 8:07:14 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Your probably there sweating bullets right now, I’m always late, but, break a leg dude. Aint that what you say to them thesbeins ? Really man, I hope you get it. You deserve to get what you strive for.      Randy

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine, and hewlett packard
Date: July 29, 2004 at 5:45:58 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

wouldn’t let ANYTHING get in the way,
but, alas , our circumstances, while once being
practically indestinguishable, are now (while obvious
similarities remain) quite diferent..<

Yeah, it’s weird Marcus, but yer right, for having been in such similar
situations not so long ago we’re in vastly different places at the current
moment- while still there are those pesky similarities. Among which just
happen to be opiates, and the fact that we like and somewhat understand each
other.
Plus, “get in the way” could be looked at in very different ways and
mean very different things.
I don’t, un- or for- tunately, depending on the perspective, qualify for
government cheeses.
And gosh knows I love cheeses. Specially government cheeses.
Ok, I’ll stop now, to coin a wise man’s phrase.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “marcus israel” <vesch69@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 5:13 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine, and hewlett packard

Preston,
“all good things in all good time..”

bUt hey man, is it just that you’re not eligable for
the Govt. Cheese, man?
In actuality, MEDICAID is like (in my experiences)
the best, most widely accepted form of med. coverage
going, no?..I mean, my girlfrien works for the NY
LIbrary and her health insurance is always being
really restrictive about what and how much and where
and when she can be sick!!!

Anyway, bro, do what you gotta do, for you,
y’know…me? I wouldn’t let ANYTHING get in the way,
but, alas , our circumstances, while once being
practically indestinguishable, are now (while obvious
similarities remain) quite diferent..
Whatever you do, have lotsof fun,
Marcus

— Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:

Hey all- as I just wrote to my drugwar list too-
please wish well in my
direction,
as it looked like I was going to actually be trying
ibogaine in the very,
very near future, but now it looks like I have to
put it off a week or so
due to getting a call-back for a Hewlett Packard
commercial tonight- which
shoots all week next week. I can’t BELIEVE I’m
bumming out at the
possibility of landing a principle part in a
commercial (if I get it- that’s
MEDICAL INSURANCE FINALLY!!! I mean, one has to make
a certain amount in a
year’s time through SAG to qualify for insurance,
which I’ve never done in
the last 6 and a half, nearly 7 years of being in
SAG) due to wanting to try
ibogaine.
Weird how “god” works, no? Telling me to “hurry up
and be patient.”
So anyway, think good stong thoughts my way please-
if I do land this
stinkin’ commercial I have to see my pain doc a week
early to make sure I
have enough pain meds to get through 6 days of
commercial shooting- egad.
I’m soooo confused feeling right now.

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine, and hewlett packard
Date: July 29, 2004 at 5:39:38 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Do you play an ibogaine patient who increases hp efficiency some hundreds
of
percent due to the miraculous effects of ibogaine?  OK I will stop now.<

LOL, no Howard, but funny enough, I did play a junkie in Central Park in the
tv show called..oh, shit, can’t remember the title, about paramedics and
cops, ummm, name completely jumped right outta my head…ahhh, found it on
Google, an amazing thing that Google, it was called Third Watch, but anyway,
I was in Tompkins Square park being filmed at dawn, about 30 yards or so
away from where I once would greet the dawn with a speedball, morning, after
morning after morning.
And, in a remake of The Prince of Central Park, I also played a busker,
right where I once lived and played guitar for money, in Central Park. So
twice now I’ve played parts that only a couple years prior I’d been living
the real-life part.
But my go-see for this new thing is tonight at 8PM- and hopefully that’s
when I’ll find out for sure whether I got the part or not.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 4:04 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine, and hewlett packard

In a message dated 7/29/04 1:23:50 PM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

<< Hey all- as I just wrote to my drugwar list too- please wish well in my

direction,

as it looked like I was going to actually be trying ibogaine in the very,

very near future, but now it looks like I have to put it off a week or so

due to getting a call-back for a Hewlett Packard commercial tonight- which

shoots all week next week. I can’t BELIEVE I’m bumming out at the

possibility of landing a principle part in a commercial (if I get it-
that’s

MEDICAL INSURANCE FINALLY!!! I mean, one has to make a certain amount in a

year’s time through SAG to qualify for insurance, which I’ve never done in

the last 6 and a half, nearly 7 years of being in SAG) due to wanting to
try

ibogaine.

Weird how “god” works, no? Telling me to “hurry up and be patient.”

So anyway, think good stong thoughts my way please- if I do land this

stinkin’ commercial I have to see my pain doc a week early to make sure I

have enough pain meds to get through 6 days of commercial shooting- egad.

I’m soooo confused feeling right now.

Hi Preston,

Do you play an ibogaine patient who increases hp efficiency some hundreds
of
percent due to the miraculous effects of ibogaine?  OK I will stop now.

Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] no wonder he wants everyone on meds!
Date: July 29, 2004 at 5:26:04 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/29/04 3:10:01 PM, sara119@xs4all.nl writes:

<< Maybe he is going to have his own private army?  >>

That may be the secret service or the US military.

Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: marcus israel <vesch69@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine, and hewlett packard
Date: July 29, 2004 at 5:13:45 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston,
“all good things in all good time..”

bUt hey man, is it just that you’re not eligable for
the Govt. Cheese, man?
In actuality, MEDICAID is like (in my experiences)
the best, most widely accepted form of med. coverage
going, no?..I mean, my girlfrien works for the NY
LIbrary and her health insurance is always being
really restrictive about what and how much and where
and when she can be sick!!!

Anyway, bro, do what you gotta do, for you,
y’know…me? I wouldn’t let ANYTHING get in the way,
but, alas , our circumstances, while once being
practically indestinguishable, are now (while obvious
similarities remain) quite diferent..
Whatever you do, have lotsof fun,
Marcus

— Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:

Hey all- as I just wrote to my drugwar list too-
please wish well in my
direction,
as it looked like I was going to actually be trying
ibogaine in the very,
very near future, but now it looks like I have to
put it off a week or so
due to getting a call-back for a Hewlett Packard
commercial tonight- which
shoots all week next week. I can’t BELIEVE I’m
bumming out at the
possibility of landing a principle part in a
commercial (if I get it- that’s
MEDICAL INSURANCE FINALLY!!! I mean, one has to make
a certain amount in a
year’s time through SAG to qualify for insurance,
which I’ve never done in
the last 6 and a half, nearly 7 years of being in
SAG) due to wanting to try
ibogaine.
Weird how “god” works, no? Telling me to “hurry up
and be patient.”
So anyway, think good stong thoughts my way please-
if I do land this
stinkin’ commercial I have to see my pain doc a week
early to make sure I
have enough pain meds to get through 6 days of
commercial shooting- egad.
I’m soooo confused feeling right now.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – 100MB free storage!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: marcus israel <vesch69@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine, and hewlett packard
Date: July 29, 2004 at 5:13:46 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston,
“all good things in all good time..”

bUt hey man, is it just that you’re not eligable for
the Govt. Cheese, man?
In actuality, MEDICAID is like (in my experiences)
the best, most widely accepted form of med. coverage
going, no?..I mean, my girlfrien works for the NY
LIbrary and her health insurance is always being
really restrictive about what and how much and where
and when she can be sick!!!

Anyway, bro, do what you gotta do, for you,
y’know…me? I wouldn’t let ANYTHING get in the way,
but, alas , our circumstances, while once being
practically indestinguishable, are now (while obvious
similarities remain) quite diferent..
Whatever you do, have lotsof fun,
Marcus

— Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:

Hey all- as I just wrote to my drugwar list too-
please wish well in my
direction,
as it looked like I was going to actually be trying
ibogaine in the very,
very near future, but now it looks like I have to
put it off a week or so
due to getting a call-back for a Hewlett Packard
commercial tonight- which
shoots all week next week. I can’t BELIEVE I’m
bumming out at the
possibility of landing a principle part in a
commercial (if I get it- that’s
MEDICAL INSURANCE FINALLY!!! I mean, one has to make
a certain amount in a
year’s time through SAG to qualify for insurance,
which I’ve never done in
the last 6 and a half, nearly 7 years of being in
SAG) due to wanting to try
ibogaine.
Weird how “god” works, no? Telling me to “hurry up
and be patient.”
So anyway, think good stong thoughts my way please-
if I do land this
stinkin’ commercial I have to see my pain doc a week
early to make sure I
have enough pain meds to get through 6 days of
commercial shooting- egad.
I’m soooo confused feeling right now.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – Send 10MB messages!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] no wonder he wants everyone on meds!
Date: July 29, 2004 at 4:20:33 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

i wonder what drugs he’s on?

i dunno but i could suggest a few… :^P

eheh… how about arsenic or cyanide?  😉

now, now… my first choice begins with an I and ends with an E…

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] no wonder he wants everyone on meds!
Date: July 29, 2004 at 4:15:51 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

i wonder what drugs he’s on?

i dunno but i could suggest a few… :^P

eheh… how about arsenic or cyanide?  😉

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] no wonder he wants everyone on meds!
Date: July 29, 2004 at 4:09:18 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This must be some propaganda,  how powerful his medication is? How many times a day is he taking them? maybe he had them for his wife or just for a bad day?
Why would he take medication in the first place? Does his Doctor knows what privacy is?   his is the president he doesn’t need to be depressed ,
He is powerful has nice family and lot of cash, the only thing is  his father isn’t so happy to have him out of office,
It isn’t so easy to “let Go” , addiction to a powerful position. How is he going to get Osama?  Who is going to control the opium fields in Afghanistan?
Maybe he is going to have his own private army?
This man has a lot on his mind , at the same time he has many minds thinking for him,
Just wondering???

S.

Van: Dana Beal [mailto:dana@cures-not-wars.org] 
Verzonden: donderdag 29 juli 2004 21:31
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: [ibogaine] no wonder he wants everyone on meds!

News: Elections/Legislation/Government
George Bush Using Hard-Core Anti-Depressants: Handlers Don’t Want Him Flying
Off The Handle
Submitted by m
Original Publisher: Capitol Hill Blue
From Capitol Hill Blue

Bush Leagues
Bush Using Drugs to Control Depression, Erratic Behavior
By TERESA HAMPTON
Editor, Capitol Hill Blue
Jul 28, 2004, 08:09

President George W. Bush is taking powerful anti-depressant drugs to control
his erratic behavior, depression and paranoia, Capitol Hill Blue has
learned.

The prescription drugs, administered by Col. Richard J. Tubb, the White
House physician, can impair the President’s mental faculties and decrease
both his physical capabilities and his ability to respond to a crisis,
administration aides admit privately.
¯It’s a double-edged sword,— says one aide. ¯We can’t have him flying off
the handle at the slightest provocation but we also need a President who is
alert mentally.—
Angry Bush walked away from reporter’s questions.
Tubb prescribed the anti-depressants after a clearly-upset Bush stormed off
stage on July 8, refusing to answer reporters’ questions about his
relationship with indicted Enron executive Kenneth J. Lay.
¯Keep those motherfuckers away from me,— he screamed at an aide backstage.
¯If you can’t, I’ll find someone who can.—

Bush’s mental stability has become the topic of Washington whispers in
recent months. Capitol Hill Blue first reported on June 4 about increasing
concern among White House aides over the President’s wide mood swings and
obscene outbursts.

Although GOP loyalists dismissed the reports an anti-Bush propaganda, the
reports were later confirmed by prominent George Washington University
psychiatrist Dr. Justin Frank in his book Bush on the Couch: Inside the Mind
of the President. Dr. Frank diagnosed the President as a ¯paranoid
meglomaniac— and ¯untreated alcoholic— whose ¯lifelong streak of sadism,
ranging from childhood pranks (using firecrackers to explode frogs) to
insulting journalists, gloating over state executions and pumping his hand
gleefully before the bombing of Baghdad— showcase Bush’s instabilities.
©¯I was really very unsettled by him and I started watching everything he did
and reading what he wrote and watching him on videotape. I felt he was
disturbed,— Dr. Frank said. ¯He fits the profile of a former drinker whose
alcoholism has been arrested but not treated.—

Dr. Frank’s conclusions have been praised by other prominent psychiatrists,
including Dr. James Grotstein, Professor at UCLA Medical Center, and Dr.
Irvin Yalom, MD, Professor Emeritus at Stanford University Medical School.

The doctors also worry about the wisdom of giving powerful anti-depressant
drugs to a person with a history of chemical dependency. Bush is an admitted
alcoholic, although he never sought treatment in a formal program, and
stories about his cocaine use as a younger man haunted his campaigns for
Texas governor and his first campaign for President.

¯President Bush is an untreated alcoholic with paranoid and megalomaniac
tendencies,— Dr. Frank adds.
The White House did not return phone calls seeking comment on this article.

Although the exact drugs Bush takes to control his depression and behavior
are not known, White House sources say they are ¯powerful medications—
designed to bring his erratic actions under control.

While Col. Tubb regularly releases a synopsis of the President’s annual physical, details of
the President’s health and any drugs or treatment he may receive are not
public record and are guarded zealously by the secretive cadre of aides that
surround the President.

Veteran White House watchers say the ability to control information about
Bush’s health, either physical or mental, is similar to Ronald Reagan’s
second term when aides managed to conceal the President’s increasing memory
lapses that signaled the onslaught of Alzheimer’s Disease.

It also brings back memories of Richard Nixon’s final days when the
soon-to-resign President wondered the halls and talked to portraits of
former Presidents. The stories didn’t emerge until after Nixon left office.

One long-time GOP political consultant who  for obvious reasons  asked not
to be identified said he is advising his Republican Congressional candidates
to keep their distance from Bush.

”We have to face the very real possibility that the President of the United
States is loony tunes,” he says sadly. “That’s not good for my candidates,
it’s not good for the party and it’s certainly not good for the country.”

© Copyright 2004 Capitol Hill Blue

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine, and hewlett packard
Date: July 29, 2004 at 4:04:19 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/29/04 1:23:50 PM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

<< Hey all- as I just wrote to my drugwar list too- please wish well in my

direction,

as it looked like I was going to actually be trying ibogaine in the very,

very near future, but now it looks like I have to put it off a week or so

due to getting a call-back for a Hewlett Packard commercial tonight- which

shoots all week next week. I can’t BELIEVE I’m bumming out at the

possibility of landing a principle part in a commercial (if I get it- that’s

MEDICAL INSURANCE FINALLY!!! I mean, one has to make a certain amount in a

year’s time through SAG to qualify for insurance, which I’ve never done in

the last 6 and a half, nearly 7 years of being in SAG) due to wanting to try

ibogaine.

Weird how “god” works, no? Telling me to “hurry up and be patient.”

So anyway, think good stong thoughts my way please- if I do land this

stinkin’ commercial I have to see my pain doc a week early to make sure I

have enough pain meds to get through 6 days of commercial shooting- egad.

I’m soooo confused feeling right now.

Hi Preston,

Do you play an ibogaine patient who increases hp efficiency some hundreds of
percent due to the miraculous effects of ibogaine?  OK I will stop now.

Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] no wonder he wants everyone on meds!
Date: July 29, 2004 at 4:03:11 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Bush Leagues
Bush Using Drugs to Control Depression, Erratic Behavior
By TERESA HAMPTON
Editor, Capitol Hill Blue
Jul 28, 2004, 08:09

i wonder what drugs he’s on?

i dunno but i could suggest a few… :^P

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] no wonder he wants everyone on meds!
Date: July 29, 2004 at 3:41:13 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Bush Leagues
Bush Using Drugs to Control Depression, Erratic Behavior
By TERESA HAMPTON
Editor, Capitol Hill Blue
Jul 28, 2004, 08:09

i wonder what drugs he’s on?

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] no wonder he wants everyone on meds!
Date: July 29, 2004 at 3:30:50 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

News: Elections/Legislation/Government
George Bush Using Hard-Core Anti-Depressants: Handlers Don’t Want Him Flying
Off The Handle
Submitted by m
Original Publisher: Capitol Hill Blue
From Capitol Hill Blue

Bush Leagues
Bush Using Drugs to Control Depression, Erratic Behavior
By TERESA HAMPTON
Editor, Capitol Hill Blue
Jul 28, 2004, 08:09

President George W. Bush is taking powerful anti-depressant drugs to control
his erratic behavior, depression and paranoia, Capitol Hill Blue has
learned.

The prescription drugs, administered by Col. Richard J. Tubb, the White
House physician, can impair the President’s mental faculties and decrease
both his physical capabilities and his ability to respond to a crisis,
administration aides admit privately.
¯It’s a double-edged sword,— says one aide. ¯We can’t have him flying off
the handle at the slightest provocation but we also need a President who is
alert mentally.—

Angry Bush walked away from reporter’s questions.
Tubb prescribed the anti-depressants after a clearly-upset Bush stormed off
stage on July 8, refusing to answer reporters’ questions about his
relationship with indicted Enron executive Kenneth J. Lay.
¯Keep those motherfuckers away from me,— he screamed at an aide backstage.
¯If you can’t, I’ll find someone who can.—

Bush’s mental stability has become the topic of Washington whispers in
recent months. Capitol Hill Blue first reported on June 4 about increasing
concern among White House aides over the President’s wide mood swings and
obscene outbursts.

Although GOP loyalists dismissed the reports an anti-Bush propaganda, the
reports were later confirmed by prominent George Washington University
psychiatrist Dr. Justin Frank in his book Bush on the Couch: Inside the Mind
of the President. Dr. Frank diagnosed the President as a ¯paranoid
meglomaniac— and ¯untreated alcoholic— whose ¯lifelong streak of sadism,
ranging from childhood pranks (using firecrackers to explode frogs) to
insulting journalists, gloating over state executions and pumping his hand
gleefully before the bombing of Baghdad— showcase Bush’s instabilities.

©¯I was really very unsettled by him and I started watching everything he did
and reading what he wrote and watching him on videotape. I felt he was
disturbed,— Dr. Frank said. ¯He fits the profile of a former drinker whose
alcoholism has been arrested but not treated.—

Dr. Frank’s conclusions have been praised by other prominent psychiatrists,
including Dr. James Grotstein, Professor at UCLA Medical Center, and Dr.
Irvin Yalom, MD, Professor Emeritus at Stanford University Medical School.

The doctors also worry about the wisdom of giving powerful anti-depressant
drugs to a person with a history of chemical dependency. Bush is an admitted
alcoholic, although he never sought treatment in a formal program, and
stories about his cocaine use as a younger man haunted his campaigns for
Texas governor and his first campaign for President.

¯President Bush is an untreated alcoholic with paranoid and megalomaniac
tendencies,— Dr. Frank adds.

The White House did not return phone calls seeking comment on this article.

Although the exact drugs Bush takes to control his depression and behavior
are not known, White House sources say they are ¯powerful medications—
designed to bring his erratic actions under control.

While Col. Tubb regularly releases a synopsis of the President’s annual physical, details of
the President’s health and any drugs or treatment he may receive are not
public record and are guarded zealously by the secretive cadre of aides that
surround the President.

Veteran White House watchers say the ability to control information about
Bush’s health, either physical or mental, is similar to Ronald Reagan’s
second term when aides managed to conceal the President’s increasing memory
lapses that signaled the onslaught of Alzheimer’s Disease.

It also brings back memories of Richard Nixon’s final days when the
soon-to-resign President wondered the halls and talked to portraits of
former Presidents. The stories didn’t emerge until after Nixon left office.

One long-time GOP political consultant who  for obvious reasons  asked not
to be identified said he is advising his Republican Congressional candidates
to keep their distance from Bush.

“We have to face the very real possibility that the President of the United
States is loony tunes,” he says sadly. “That’s not good for my candidates,
it’s not good for the party and it’s certainly not good for the country.”

© Copyright 2004 Capitol Hill Blue

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] quitting smoking
Date: July 29, 2004 at 3:03:06 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hmmm.. did pot ever really give you the munchies, like when you first
start smoking?

absolutely.

_.dh

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From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] quitting smoking
Date: July 29, 2004 at 2:41:09 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks Jon, yet another sign of my “strangness.” I get hungry sort of from
smoking pot, but, well, it doesn’t seem to drive me to the kitchen very
well.
Peace and love,
Preston

Hmmm.. did pot ever really give you the munchies, like when you first
start smoking?

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] quitting smoking
Date: July 29, 2004 at 2:39:21 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Strangely though,
tolerance to pot’s appetite stimulating effects rarely develops.<

Thanks Jon, yet another sign of my “strangness.” I get hungry sort of from
smoking pot, but, well, it doesn’t seem to drive me to the kitchen very
well.
Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 12:08 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] quitting smoking

Melatonin at night, especially when you wake up in the middle of the
night to pee. The sublinguals–put them up between yr upper lip and
gum after moistening. And smoke pot. Not much, but a couple tokes
everytime you get the urge to smoke. BTW, the reason pot has no
substantial withdrawals is that the cannabidiol is a glutamate
antagonist, which means that every joint has a weak ibo-like effect.
Very weak, but sufficient to block buildup of tolerance to THC. The
melatonin prevents tolerance to the CBD, so you don’t get so much of
the “chronic” effect that causes you to need to smoke pot all the
time.

Ummm. Tolerance to THC and the other cannabinoids both develops and
disipates pretty rapidly, usually within a few days. Strangely though,
tolerance to pot’s appetite stimulating effects rarely develops.

While cannabinol has been shown to antagonise glutamate activity, that
does not mean it works like ibogaine at all. Ibogaine’s anti-addictive
effects seem to be a result of a complex series of interactions with
multiple neurotransmitter systems. At least a couple different ibogaine
studies have shown that glutamate antagonism alone does not produce an
anti-addictive effect. However, cannabinol’s glutamate antagonist activity
is thought to be responsible for it’s neuroprotective effect; as it blocks
cell death induced glutamate cascade.

The suggestion that melatonin in some way modulates cannabinoid tolerance
also seems rather specious to me. Presumably, cannabinoid tolerance
develops as a result of extended stimulation and subsequent
desensitisation of the cannabinoid receptors. Melatonin doesn’t appear to
show any activity at cannabinoid receptors.

Anyway, I know for me, if I was going to try to quit smoking cigarettes,
I’d have to quit pot as well, at least temporarily. i ALWAYS have a cig
right after i finish a bowl, so there’s a VERY strong association for me
there.

It’s all about figuring out your own triggers. But strictly
psychophysiologically speaking, it doesn’t seem likely to me that pot
would have much of an effect on nicotine intake one way or the other.

jon

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] ibogaine, and hewlett packard
Date: July 29, 2004 at 2:23:28 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey all- as I just wrote to my drugwar list too- please wish well in my
direction,
as it looked like I was going to actually be trying ibogaine in the very,
very near future, but now it looks like I have to put it off a week or so
due to getting a call-back for a Hewlett Packard commercial tonight- which
shoots all week next week. I can’t BELIEVE I’m bumming out at the
possibility of landing a principle part in a commercial (if I get it- that’s
MEDICAL INSURANCE FINALLY!!! I mean, one has to make a certain amount in a
year’s time through SAG to qualify for insurance, which I’ve never done in
the last 6 and a half, nearly 7 years of being in SAG) due to wanting to try
ibogaine.
Weird how “god” works, no? Telling me to “hurry up and be patient.”
So anyway, think good stong thoughts my way please- if I do land this
stinkin’ commercial I have to see my pain doc a week early to make sure I
have enough pain meds to get through 6 days of commercial shooting- egad.
I’m soooo confused feeling right now.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Hypothetical question
Date: July 29, 2004 at 1:03:41 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/29/04 5:43:45 AM, BiscuitBoy714@aol.com writes:

<< Here is my hypothetical question or
survey I’d like to run. Poll all Dr.’s in the US and ask them of all the
patients
they have on pain meds, diet pills, and benzo’s how many of them have a
problem with them. Then ask the same of patients all anonymously of course.
How
many of these people would take Ibogaine if given a choice?That is if they
even
know about it.That’s a lot of people to say no to. Information is power.
Power
to the people. Remember that?       Randy >>

Randy,

While not exactly an answer to your question two related questionnaries were
provided to providers and patients. The second abstract has not yet been
presented as the meeting takes place in November 2004.

It might be useful for this list to discuss these abstracts.

Howard

http://apha.confex.com/apha/131am/techprogram/paper_71058.htm

4094.0: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 – Board 2

Abstract #71058

Attitudes toward medication to treat heroin dependency

Marilyn Daley, PhD, Schneider Institute for Health Policy, Heller School for
Social Policy and Management, Brandeis University, MS 035, 415 South Street,
Waltham, MA 02454-9110, 781-736-3906, daley@brandeis.edu, Traci Rieckmann, PhD,
Department of Public Health and Preventive Medicine, Oregon Health Sciences
University, 3181 S.W. Sam Jackson Park Road, Portland, OR 97201-3098, Dennis
McCarty, PhD, Department of Public Helath and Preventive Medicine, Oregon Health
Sciences University, 3181 SW Samuel Jackson Park Road, Portland, OR 97201,
Cindy Thomas, PhD, Brandeis University Schneider Health Policy Institute, Heller
Graduate School, 415 South Street, Waltham, MA 02454, and Kathleen Keck,
MMHS, University of Miami, School of Medicine, Coral Gables, FL 33124.
Despite advances in the development of medications to treat addictive
disorders, they are underutilized in community-based drug treatment programs. To
discover how the treatment community feels about using medication to treat heroin
dependency, Brandeis and Oregon Health Sciences University surveyed clients
and counselors in residential, outpatient and methadone programs in
Massachusetts and Oregon. Using the Azjen-Fishbein Theory of Reasoned Action as a
theoretical framework, focus groups were used to develop a questionnaire which was
subsequently pilot-tested with 83 clients and 61 staff members. Questions focused
on four medications (Methadone, Clonidine, Buprenorphine and Ibogaine).
T-tests, Anovas and multiple regression analyses were used to identify normative
influences, beliefs, expectancies, treatment settings and personal
characteristics that predicted favorable or unfavorable attitudes. Although staff had
become more accepting toward medication due to the increasing prevalence of dual
diagnosis, the effectiveness of many medications and the spread of HIV, most
clients felt that medication interfered with recovery and should only be used for
withdrawal. Methadone was viewed more positively than any of the drugs,
although many were guardedly optimistic about Buprenorphine’s potential. Clonidine
was perceived as ineffective in the treatment of heroin dependence. Counselors
were more receptive to all drugs than clients. Resistance to the use of
pharmacotherapy was particularly pronounced among the former heroin users in
residential programs. A larger survey is underway with 1080 clients and 360
counselors. Results will be used to inform policy and practice regarding the
successful adoption and implementation of effective new practices.
Learning Objectives: 1. Describe at least four major medications that have
been developed to treat heroin dependency 2. Discuss historical barriers to
adopting and implementing new pharmacotherapies in drug abuse treatment programs
3. Identify the social norms, expectancies, beliefs, and values that are
associated with favorable and unfavorable attitudes toward medication 3. Recognize
why developing and testing new medications are important for HIV prevention
Keywords: Drug Abuse Treatment, Injection Drug Users
Related Web page:

Presenting author’s disclosure statement:
Organization/institution whose products or services will be discussed: None
I do not have any significant financial interest/arrangement or affiliation
with any organization/institution whose products or services are being
discussed in this session.
The 131st Annual Meeting (November 15-19, 2003) of APHA

http://apha.confex.com/apha/132am/techprogram/paper_92812.htmhttp://apha.confe
x.com/apha/132am/techprogram/paper_92812.htm

4095.0: Tuesday, November 9, 2004 – Board 8

Abstract #92812

Attitudes toward ibogaine among clients and counselors in drug treatment
programs
Marilyn C. Daley, PhD1, Dennis McCarty, PhD2, Cindy Parks Thomas, PA, PhD1,
and Traci Rieckmann, PhD3. (1) Schneider Institute for Health Policy, Brandeis
University, Heller School for Social Policy and Management, P.O. Box 9110, 415
South Street, Waltham, MA 02454-9110, 781-736-3906, daley@brandeis.edu, (2)
Department of Public Helath and Preventive Medicine, Oregon Health Sciences
University, 3181 SW Samuel Jackson Park Road, Portland, OR 97201, (3) Department
of Public Health and Preventive Medicine, Oregon Health Sciences University,
3181 S.W. Sam Jackson Park Road, Portland, OR 97201-3098
While recent years have witnessed a 25% increase in the use of complementary
and alternative medications, none of these have come into widespread use in
the treatment of opiate dependence. Ibogaine, an hallucinogenic substance from
the bark of the Iboga tree in Gabon, has enjoyed a cult following in Europe and
Africa for some time. Enthusiasts claim that after ingesting Ibogaine once,
their desire for heroin is gone forever. The drug has not been approved by the
FDA for use in the United States since animal studies in this country have not
been conclusive. To discover whether the treatment community would approve of
using Ibogaine treat heroin dependency, Brandeis and Oregon Health & Sciences
University surveyed 1,461 clients and counselors in residential, outpatient
and methadone programs in Massachusetts and Oregon. Using the Azjen-Fishbein
Theory of Reasoned Action as a theoretical framework, the 8 page questionnaire
focused on four medications that are used to treat heroin addiction: Ibogaine,
Buprenorphine, Methadone and Clonidine. Multiple regression analysis was used
to identify demographic characteristics, normative influences and attitudinal
factors that were associated with intentions to take Ibogaine. Although 10% of
clients and counselors had heard of Ibogaine, none of them had ever used this
medication. A substantial minority of 12%, or 161 people, however, claimed
that they would use Ibogaine if they had the opportunity. Males, clients (as
opposed to counselors), individuals in outpatient clinics, blacks respondents and
respondents with less education were more likely to say that they intended to
use Ibogaine.
Learning Objectives:

After attending this session, the audience should be able to (* identify the
benefits and drawbacks of Ibogaine, a herbal medication for drug addiction; (
*   describe why treatment programs may be more receptive to herbal
medications than to conventional pharmaceuticals; (
*   discuss whether or not Ibogaine should be approved for use in the U.S.

Keywords: Drug Abuse Treatment, Alternative Medicine/Therapies
Presenting author’s disclosure statement:
I do not have any significant financial interest/arrangement or affiliation
with any organization/institution whose products or services are being
discussed in this session.
Substance Abuse Treatment Experiences Poster Session
The 132nd Annual Meeting (November 6-10, 2004) of APHA

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From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] quitting smoking
Date: July 29, 2004 at 12:08:46 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Melatonin at night, especially when you wake up in the middle of the
night to pee. The sublinguals–put them up between yr upper lip and
gum after moistening. And smoke pot. Not much, but a couple tokes
everytime you get the urge to smoke. BTW, the reason pot has no
substantial withdrawals is that the cannabidiol is a glutamate
antagonist, which means that every joint has a weak ibo-like effect.
Very weak, but sufficient to block buildup of tolerance to THC. The
melatonin prevents tolerance to the CBD, so you don’t get so much of
the “chronic” effect that causes you to need to smoke pot all the
time.

Ummm. Tolerance to THC and the other cannabinoids both develops and
disipates pretty rapidly, usually within a few days. Strangely though,
tolerance to pot’s appetite stimulating effects rarely develops.

While cannabinol has been shown to antagonise glutamate activity, that
does not mean it works like ibogaine at all. Ibogaine’s anti-addictive
effects seem to be a result of a complex series of interactions with
multiple neurotransmitter systems. At least a couple different ibogaine
studies have shown that glutamate antagonism alone does not produce an
anti-addictive effect. However, cannabinol’s glutamate antagonist activity
is thought to be responsible for it’s neuroprotective effect; as it blocks
cell death induced glutamate cascade.

The suggestion that melatonin in some way modulates cannabinoid tolerance
also seems rather specious to me. Presumably, cannabinoid tolerance
develops as a result of extended stimulation and subsequent
desensitisation of the cannabinoid receptors. Melatonin doesn’t appear to
show any activity at cannabinoid receptors.

Anyway, I know for me, if I was going to try to quit smoking cigarettes,
I’d have to quit pot as well, at least temporarily. i ALWAYS have a cig
right after i finish a bowl, so there’s a VERY strong association for me
there.

It’s all about figuring out your own triggers. But strictly
psychophysiologically speaking, it doesn’t seem likely to me that pot
would have much of an effect on nicotine intake one way or the other.

jon

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Hypothetical question
Date: July 29, 2004 at 6:42:49 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Mindvoxians,    didn’t I see someone say something in a post in the past few days about the laws in N.Y. state concerning patient records, i.e. EKG, blood work and the like? I plan to get my records from my visit to the ER to show my provider what good shape my heart, and blood work are in. One good thing I got from my successful treatment for Hep C. was to see that I hadn’t done any major damage to myself not even any cirrhosis, none!! I couldn’t believe it. I drank like a fish with cotton mouth for years. Matter of fact I went from junkie to drunky ever time I got on Meth except this one. I haven’t been good and drunk in about 10 years, thank God! Here is my hypothetical question or survey I’d like to run. Poll all Dr.’s in the US and ask them of all the patients they have on pain meds, diet pills, and benzo’s how many of them have a problem with them. Then ask the same of patients all anonymously of course. How many of these people would take Ibogaine if given a choice?That is if they even know about it.That’s a lot of people to say no to. Information is power. Power to the people. Remember that?       Randy

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] Ibogaine gets the Reefer Madnesstreatment in UK newspaper
Date: July 28, 2004 at 10:53:08 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks kindly Hattie,
This is a bit of a relief I guess.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Hattie” <epoptica@freeuk.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 3:31 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] Ibogaine gets the Reefer
Madnesstreatment in UK newspaper

Hey Preston,

The Sunday Mercury is marginal….. I had never heard of it until now! I
was
contacted by a reporter in the midlands a few weeks ago who said she was
writing for a local paper up there which must be this.

Local papers don’t get read that widely and certainly noone in the south
of
the country would ever get to see it. Slightly worrying about the
discussion
with the department for health. However we have to remember there has been
loads of really positive press recently most of which has been in the
mainstream media – The BBC, The Observer and the Daily Mirror.

The Mercury……well someone was bound to write that type of piece and
luckily it was only a local.

Hattie

Here’s comes that slightly trepidatious feeling again.
But hey, no risk, no gain, right?
Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Robert Merkin” <bobmerk@earthlink.net>
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 2:03 PM
Subject: [drugwar] Ibogaine gets the Reefer Madness treatment in UK
newspaper

Don’t think i’m subscribed to ibogaine List, so can someone please
forward
this to ibogaine@mindvox.com ?

It seems the Sunday Mercury, with this one story, has just discovered
the
existence of ibogaine, and has determined it is Bad & Dangerous.

Elmer

URL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v04.n1062.a02.html
Newshawk: Herb
Pubdate: Sun, 18 Jul 2004
Source: Sunday Mercury (UK)
Copyright: 2004 Sunday Mercury
Contact: SundayMercury@mrn.co.uk
Website:
http://icbirmingham.icnetwork.co.uk/2050ourpapers/0300sundaymercury/
Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/3167
Author: Caroline Wheeler

DEADLY ‘CURE’ FOR JUNKIES

A ‘miracle drug’ which claims to cure heroin addicts in just ONE day
has
already been linked to four deaths.

Although it can be obtained officially only on prescription, the Sunday
Mercury was able to buy some for UKP 30 on the internet.

Manufacturers say Ibogaine works by instantly relieving withdrawal
symptoms
and suppressing cravings for heroin and cocaine.

The toxic substance is so powerful that it can only be prescribed by
doctors – but our reporter was able to buy a derivative of it over the
internet with no questions asked.

In the past, Ibogaine treatment has only been available privately at
UKP
500 a time.

But the Sunday Mercury has discovered that Midland addicts are buying
it
illegally from an online herbalist.

Now Ibogaine therapists, who offer expensive treatment programmes, are
warning the DIY detox approach could kill.

“It is not advisable for drug addicts to attempt an Ibogaine treatment
programme on their own,” one therapist said.

“Everyone reacts differently to Ibogaine and it could be dangerous if
you
don’t know what you are doing.  It has been known for people to die
after
taking Ibogaine.”

It is believed four people have died from taking the drug, including
one
in
Britain.

Ibogaine is an unlicensed drug in the UK, and cannot be sold without a
prescription.  But despite this restriction, one UK distributor
continues
to sell a derivative of the drug online.

Last week, the Sunday Mercury bought 10 grammes of Iboga root bark
capsules
for UKP 28.98.

In an e-mail exchange the webmaster told our reporter: “I am the only
salesman of Iboga in England and supply it to people all over the
country,
including in the Midlands.

“Most of my customers have been mothers who are desperate to get their
kids
off drugs.  One of them told me she has a son who was hooked on heroin
and
crack.  Iboga got him off the stuff.”

We contacted the seller later to tell him what he was doing was
illegal.

“I was unaware that the Department of Health said selling Ibogaine is
illegal,” he claimed.  “Thanks for the tip.  However, I only sell
Ibogaine
root bark so it should be OK.”

Last night, a spokesman for the Department of Health advised our
reporter
to alert the Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency.

<]=———————————————————————–=[

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.drugwar.com           ]
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|
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From: Hattie <epoptica@freeuk.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] Ibogaine gets the Reefer Madness treatment in UK newspaper
Date: July 27, 2004 at 3:31:09 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Preston,

The Sunday Mercury is marginal….. I had never heard of it until now! I was
contacted by a reporter in the midlands a few weeks ago who said she was
writing for a local paper up there which must be this.

Local papers don’t get read that widely and certainly noone in the south of
the country would ever get to see it. Slightly worrying about the discussion
with the department for health. However we have to remember there has been
loads of really positive press recently most of which has been in the
mainstream media – The BBC, The Observer and the Daily Mirror.

The Mercury……well someone was bound to write that type of piece and
luckily it was only a local.

Hattie

Here’s comes that slightly trepidatious feeling again.
But hey, no risk, no gain, right?
Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Robert Merkin” <bobmerk@earthlink.net>
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 2:03 PM
Subject: [drugwar] Ibogaine gets the Reefer Madness treatment in UK
newspaper

Don’t think i’m subscribed to ibogaine List, so can someone please forward
this to ibogaine@mindvox.com ?

It seems the Sunday Mercury, with this one story, has just discovered the
existence of ibogaine, and has determined it is Bad & Dangerous.

Elmer

URL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v04.n1062.a02.html
Newshawk: Herb
Pubdate: Sun, 18 Jul 2004
Source: Sunday Mercury (UK)
Copyright: 2004 Sunday Mercury
Contact: SundayMercury@mrn.co.uk
Website:
http://icbirmingham.icnetwork.co.uk/2050ourpapers/0300sundaymercury/
Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/3167
Author: Caroline Wheeler

DEADLY ‘CURE’ FOR JUNKIES

A ‘miracle drug’ which claims to cure heroin addicts in just ONE day has
already been linked to four deaths.

Although it can be obtained officially only on prescription, the Sunday
Mercury was able to buy some for UKP 30 on the internet.

Manufacturers say Ibogaine works by instantly relieving withdrawal
symptoms
and suppressing cravings for heroin and cocaine.

The toxic substance is so powerful that it can only be prescribed by
doctors – but our reporter was able to buy a derivative of it over the
internet with no questions asked.

In the past, Ibogaine treatment has only been available privately at UKP
500 a time.

But the Sunday Mercury has discovered that Midland addicts are buying it
illegally from an online herbalist.

Now Ibogaine therapists, who offer expensive treatment programmes, are
warning the DIY detox approach could kill.

“It is not advisable for drug addicts to attempt an Ibogaine treatment
programme on their own,” one therapist said.

“Everyone reacts differently to Ibogaine and it could be dangerous if you
don’t know what you are doing.  It has been known for people to die after
taking Ibogaine.”

It is believed four people have died from taking the drug, including one
in
Britain.

Ibogaine is an unlicensed drug in the UK, and cannot be sold without a
prescription.  But despite this restriction, one UK distributor continues
to sell a derivative of the drug online.

Last week, the Sunday Mercury bought 10 grammes of Iboga root bark
capsules
for UKP 28.98.

In an e-mail exchange the webmaster told our reporter: “I am the only
salesman of Iboga in England and supply it to people all over the country,
including in the Midlands.

“Most of my customers have been mothers who are desperate to get their
kids
off drugs.  One of them told me she has a son who was hooked on heroin and
crack.  Iboga got him off the stuff.”

We contacted the seller later to tell him what he was doing was illegal.

“I was unaware that the Department of Health said selling Ibogaine is
illegal,” he claimed.  “Thanks for the tip.  However, I only sell Ibogaine
root bark so it should be OK.”

Last night, a spokesman for the Department of Health advised our reporter
to alert the Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency.

<]=———————————————————————–=[

[           Moderated by: Preston Peet |
.drugwar.com           ]
|          -=/[ To Subscribe: drugwar-subscribe@mindvox.com ]/=-
|
|             To Unsubscribe: drugwar-unsubscribe@mindvox.com
|
[   DrugWar List in Digest Format:
ugwar-digest-subscribe@mindvox.com   ]

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From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] qotd
Date: July 28, 2004 at 12:37:55 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Excellent Thoughts.

Julian

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] IMPORTANT- any EKG suggestions?
Date: July 28, 2004 at 12:32:41 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks Sean. I just wrote back a message saying that. That’s all I was doing. Have a good one.
Julian

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] IMPORTANT- any EKG suggestions?
Date: July 28, 2004 at 12:30:34 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Ann. No I’m not at all irritated. I was just welcoming you. I’m sorry if my message came off differently. I think my point was you do not need to be a junkie to enjoy and communicate on this message center. Sometimes I talk too much when I try to make a point and maybe my point doesn’t get made due to that. Enjoy and have a great day!
Julian

From: iboga@ziplip.com <iboga@ziplip.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] qotd
Date: July 28, 2004 at 12:18:56 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“Be Strong.         Love”

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] IMPORTANT- any EKG suggestions?
Date: July 28, 2004 at 10:28:13 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Ann,

Thank you for the info.  Should you find the url please send it to me, you can write me at yahoo and keep it off the net.  Maybe I can get some before it becomes illeagel or do an experiment of some kind.

No, your not guilty of chasing rainbows, just looking for the best way out.  What’s wrong with that?  You will be surprized at what you might find.  There is some guy in Cambodia or Thailand or somewhere around there who has a formula that makes kicking mainly painless but no one know his net address and it may very well be legal.  The government doesn’t have time to check all herbs.  Then when it works and people want it then they check it and say it is dangerous and make it illeagel.

Again, thanks for the info., it is very much appreciated.

Best to ya Ann,

– JIM

“Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com> wrote:
MC 18 is a fragment of the Ibogaine molecule.  Stanley Glick at Albany Medical Center is supposedly
working on it.  It hopefully will have the effectiveness of ibogaine as far as antiaddictive properties
without the negative side effects.  I’m just curious (to say the least) about what the latest news is
about it   I once found a website about his work with an email address and an open invitation to
contact him.  I have not been successful in the past couple of days in finding that website again.
I am quite guilty of chasing rainbows and looking for information when there just aint none!!  Anybody
know the URL?

ann

—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 8:37 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] IMPORTANT- any EKG suggestions?

Hi Sean,

Just thought I would mention something that I have done before.  See, I used to move from here to there and docs would die or move etc.  So I started requesting a copy of my blood work.  That way I can track it and see if it is getting better or worse.  Also, see if they will give you a viral load test.  That is testing how may bug or virus per ml is in you system.  Just a tip I thought I would pass on.

As far as Julian I don’t see anything wrong with what he said.   He don’t like the system, I think he has company – lol.   Hey, what is this mc 18?  or something like that a post or two down?  I never heard of it.  Any way I can get it, what is it suppose to do.  Detail is not necessary just a sentence or two.

Well, tomorrow I see the bupe doc.  Hope it gives me energy and eases depression.  I feel so week.  There are 80 year old men who get around more than me.

Best to all,

– JIM

UUSEAN@aol.com wrote:

Hi Ann,

Maybe I’m wrong, but I took Julian’s post to be a WELCOME TO MINDVOX!

Sean

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete – You start. We finish.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] All’s Well
Date: July 28, 2004 at 5:39:08 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey all,     I want to thank everyone for the concern and the links that were shown to me on this list. It just goes to prove what I all ways thought. Most addicts are people with an extremely large amount of heart. Its great to have a place like this to show it and not get it stomped on. At least not most of the time anyway. hehe     THANX  Randy

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] All’s Well
Date: July 28, 2004 at 5:26:56 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Howard wrote”Stanley Glick is a good guy. You should visit. Of course that doesn’t mean there wont be picket lines outside demanding MC-18.”           I’ve been looking for a way to do my part for the cause. I live 45 minutes away, just tell me when to be there.       Randy

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] Ibogaine gets the Reefer Madness treatment in UK…
Date: July 28, 2004 at 5:07:36 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

If someone wants to be F*cked up they always can find a new drug which isn’t in the vaccination programme.
As long as the “why people use drug?”isn’t solved there will be just a change but not a solution.
I agree with you Julian the solution is Legalization and education.

S.

Van: Sapphirestardus@aol.com [mailto:Sapphirestardus@aol.com] 
Verzonden: dinsdag 27 juli 2004 23:02
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] Ibogaine gets the Reefer Madness treatment in UK…

Hello Howard. You know, I won’t even go into the Orwellian aspect of this vaccination concept, soon to be vaccination reality. It would be too easy to blow it apart by it’s “BIG BROTHER” seams!! What causes me to erupt is how simple the solution to the drug problem is!! It is right in front of everyone’s eyes and yet our culture, our society and great civilization refuses to even nod in it’s direction! LEGALIZATION!!!! The folly of litigating morality has been lost on the great minds of this era. Even with proof of it’s failure smacking us in the face with Prohibition in the twenties and The Drug War of the late twentieth century, we still play very dangerous games with ourselves. Vaccinating our children? What scares me the most is most of this country and much of the world not only sees this as an important and necessary step towards fighting the evils of ‘Euphoria’ but also as a miracle!!! It is ‘cultural cancer’ 

            I have to stop myself because there are certain topics that press all my buttons and enable me to talk or write forever! This is not only one of them, it is by far the most severe of all!!! If I could only find an island somewhere and start my own society. Fuck me!! Have a great day all of you! 
                                                                              Julian

From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] IMPORTANT- any EKG suggestions?
Date: July 28, 2004 at 3:14:12 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

MC 18 is a fragment of the Ibogaine molecule.  Stanley Glick at Albany Medical Center is supposedly
working on it.  It hopefully will have the effectiveness of ibogaine as far as antiaddictive properties
without the negative side effects.  I’m just curious (to say the least) about what the latest news is
about it   I once found a website about his work with an email address and an open invitation to
contact him.  I have not been successful in the past couple of days in finding that website again.
I am quite guilty of chasing rainbows and looking for information when there just aint none!!  Anybody
know the URL?

ann

—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 8:37 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] IMPORTANT- any EKG suggestions?

Hi Sean,

Just thought I would mention something that I have done before.  See, I used to move from here to there and docs would die or move etc.  So I started requesting a copy of my blood work.  That way I can track it and see if it is getting better or worse.  Also, see if they will give you a viral load test.  That is testing how may bug or virus per ml is in you system.  Just a tip I thought I would pass on.

As far as Julian I don’t see anything wrong with what he said.   He don’t like the system, I think he has company – lol.   Hey, what is this mc 18?  or something like that a post or two down?  I never heard of it.  Any way I can get it, what is it suppose to do.  Detail is not necessary just a sentence or two.

Well, tomorrow I see the bupe doc.  Hope it gives me energy and eases depression.  I feel so week.  There are 80 year old men who get around more than me.

Best to all,

– JIM

UUSEAN@aol.com wrote:

Hi Ann,

Maybe I’m wrong, but I took Julian’s post to be a WELCOME TO MINDVOX!

Sean

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete – You start. We finish.

From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] IMPORTANT- any EKG suggestions?
Date: July 28, 2004 at 3:00:50 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ok, thanks a lot for the explain, I am short of vocabulary and on a learning curve, but I
sure do mean well.

ann
—– Original Message —–
From: UUSEAN@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 7:22 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] IMPORTANT- any EKG suggestions?

Hi Ann,

Maybe I’m wrong, but I took Julian’s post to be a WELCOME TO MINDVOX!

Sean

From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] IMPORTANT- any EKG suggestions?
Date: July 27, 2004 at 8:37:11 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Sean,

Just thought I would mention something that I have done before.  See, I used to move from here to there and docs would die or move etc.  So I started requesting a copy of my blood work.  That way I can track it and see if it is getting better or worse.  Also, see if they will give you a viral load test.  That is testing how may bug or virus per ml is in you system.  Just a tip I thought I would pass on.

As far as Julian I don’t see anything wrong with what he said.   He don’t like the system, I think he has company – lol.   Hey, what is this mc 18?  or something like that a post or two down?  I never heard of it.  Any way I can get it, what is it suppose to do.  Detail is not necessary just a sentence or two.

Well, tomorrow I see the bupe doc.  Hope it gives me energy and eases depression.  I feel so week.  There are 80 year old men who get around more than me.

Best to all,

– JIM

UUSEAN@aol.com wrote:

Hi Ann,

Maybe I’m wrong, but I took Julian’s post to be a WELCOME TO MINDVOX!

Sean

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete – You start. We finish.

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] IMPORTANT- any EKG suggestions?
Date: July 27, 2004 at 7:22:44 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Ann,

Maybe I’m wrong, but I took Julian’s post to be a WELCOME TO MINDVOX!

Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] All’s Well
Date: July 27, 2004 at 7:16:44 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi,

Glad to hear Randy’s doing well medically..and can go on to treatment!  I am in the process if checking if my liver enzymes are OK for ibogaine, as I also have hepC.
I am still planning my route to the blood test and the EKG.

Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] IMPORTANT- any EKG suggestions?
Date: July 27, 2004 at 7:13:16 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Julian,

Ramble on! You make some very good points.  I would quibble with one point, though.  I don’t wish a divorce from euphoria; just the life force killing slave making kind.:)

Sean

From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] IMPORTANT- any EKG suggestions?
Date: July 27, 2004 at 7:00:51 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

 

Hi Ann. I hope not to sound arrogant or cliche but I always viewed “junkieism” or “dope fiendism” as a state of mind. It is attitude more than behavior. The actual ingestion of drugs as well as other behavior seems more like a symptom of a bigger problem or situation. I swear to you I’ve met some people that were far more “fiendish” than I ever was but certainly not by society’s standards because they didn’t abuse drugs, they barely used them! Anybody deserves to be in mindvox if they wish to learn something about a particular subject. As with many other sites or conversation rooms,  you get to speak with and listen to a certain type of individual that I guarantee you will not find anywhere else. What we all talk about here just isn’t acceptable to most others. Here, virtually anything goes especially with anything that pertains to marriage and/or divorce from EUPHORIA. Sorry if I’m rambling or preaching but….hey what can I tell you?
Nice talking with you Ann,
Julian

Huh?  Did I say something wrong?  Sure didn’t mean to irritate
anybody – least of all you.

love
ann

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] All’s Well
Date: July 27, 2004 at 5:42:38 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/27/04 2:27:31 PM, think@francomm.com writes:

<< ps.  This is the hospital where Stanley Glick has his laboratory.  I’m
going to

pursue this and find out as much as I can. >>

Stanley Glick is a great guy.  You should visit.  That doesn’t mean that
picket lines demanding 18-mc won’t soon be marching.

Howard

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From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] IMPORTANT- any EKG suggestions?
Date: July 27, 2004 at 5:15:41 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Ann. I hope not to sound arrogant or cliche but I always viewed “junkieism” or “dope fiendism” as a state of mind. It is attitude more than behavior. The actual ingestion of drugs as well as other behavior seems more like a symptom of a bigger problem or situation. I swear to you I’ve met some people that were far more “fiendish” than I ever was but certainly not by society’s standards because they didn’t abuse drugs, they barely used them! Anybody deserves to be in mindvox if they wish to learn something about a particular subject. As with many other sites or conversation rooms,  you get to speak with and listen to a certain type of individual that I guarantee you will not find anywhere else. What we all talk about here just isn’t acceptable to most others. Here, virtually anything goes especially with anything that pertains to marriage and/or divorce from EUPHORIA. Sorry if I’m rambling or preaching but….hey what can I tell you?
Nice talking with you Ann,
Julian

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] Ibogaine gets the Reefer Madness treatment in UK…
Date: July 27, 2004 at 5:02:18 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello Howard. You know, I won’t even go into the Orwellian aspect of this vaccination concept, soon to be vaccination reality. It would be too easy to blow it apart by it’s “BIG BROTHER” seams!! What causes me to erupt is how simple the solution to the drug problem is!! It is right in front of everyone’s eyes and yet our culture, our society and great civilization refuses to even nod in it’s direction! LEGALIZATION!!!! The folly of litigating morality has been lost on the great minds of this era. Even with proof of it’s failure smacking us in the face with Prohibition in the twenties and The Drug War of the late twentieth century, we still play very dangerous games with ourselves. Vaccinating our children? What scares me the most is most of this country and much of the world not only sees this as an important and necessary step towards fighting the evils of ‘Euphoria’ but also as a miracle!!! It is ‘cultural cancer’

I have to stop myself because there are certain topics that press all my buttons and enable me to talk or write forever! This is not only one of them, it is by far the most severe of all!!! If I could only find an island somewhere and start my own society. Fuck me!! Have a great day all of you!
Julian

From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] All’s Well
Date: July 27, 2004 at 3:26:51 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks to everybody.  Your well-wishes are appreciated.

We travelled up to Albany Med to have the swollen feet checked out.
Randy was examined from stem to stern:  Xray of lungs, complete blood panel
including liver enzymes, EKG.

Albany Med is a huge teaching hospital that has all the latest technology and besides
which I worked there as a staff nurse a couple of years after I graduated from nursing
school.  It has a burn unit famous throughout the US.  They are also well known for
doing heart transplants.  There are other specialities that I can’t remember!!   If he hadn’t
been a recovered Hep C patient none of the sympstoms would have caused any concern.
As it is all his systems are perfect.

Feet and ankles are back to normal today.  It has been extremely hot recently and
the two of us spent a lot of time finishing up the gardening.  One day the sun beat down
on us unmercifully and we worked all day with sweat running.  Sure was enough
to set off a case of swollen feet 🙂

Best regards

ann
think@francomm.com

ps.  This is the hospital where Stanley Glick has his laboratory.  I’m going to
pursue this and find out as much as I can.
From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] pain patients on ibogaine
Date: July 27, 2004 at 2:11:21 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I know someone who is about to do some sitting for someone else I know,
and was wondering if there was something posted somewhere, some sort of
guidelines/advice for sitters.

Nick’s site has some protocols that would be good for the sitter to read:

Ibogaine Treatment

And here are some words from an experienced Ibonaut and Sitter: Geerte

excerpted from : http://www.ibogaine.co.uk/geerte.htm

The actual treatment takes place in three stages, through which the subject is guided by a team of Ibogaine-experienced ex-addicts, a medical doctor, a psychiatrist and a psycho-therapist and several other medical personnel.

Early in the morning, ten hours after one’s last use of food and drugs, the subject takes the Ibogaine orally in capsule form. Sometimes the Ibogaine is mixed with a digestive aid. This takes place in the morning, when the subject normally would have used their wake-up dose of drugs. An hour after administration the subject usually notices the fact that their familiar morning withdrawal symptoms have disappeared and will express a desire to lay down and get comfortable. A quiet, darkened room, especially prepared in a personalized, though non-distracting, manner is made available for this purpose. The room is darkened because light bothers most subjects on Ibogaine. The room is quiet because sound is usually experienced in an amplified and oscillating way. The subject generally experiences ataxia during movement, which is loss of muscular coordination similar to drunkenness. Since the ataxia is sometimes accompanied by vomiting, he or she is asked to lay still with the least amount of motion as possible. When closing the eyes, approximately 75% of subjects experience dream-like visions. I will get back to this visionary stage later in my talk. However, when subjects opens his/her eyes and are talked to, there seem to be no real visual or auditory distortions and some level of communication is possible but usually not preferred by the subject. Many subjects perspire heavily and are advised to wear comfortable shirts/pants that can be easily replaced. The first stage takes place for about four to eight hours, during which he or she is regularly checked by the treatment team and where members of this team are constantly available on request. During the first stage subjects generally do not complain about any withdrawal symptoms.

In the second stage, that can last approximately 30 to 40 hours, several things can happen. Some subjects still experience a dream-like period, although it is supposedly less intense. There is time to evaluate the visionary experiences, which can bring about profound insight into life and death and the reasons behind addictive behavior. Some subjects request something to drink and/or very light food like fruit. The subject usually stays awake most of the time. During this phase some subjects complain about exhaustion, which some of them interpret to be withdrawal symptoms. It is at this stage that the presence of Ibogaine-experienced ex-addicts is crucial. The previously established trust relationship between the subject and this guide, gives the guide the opportunity to assure the subject that this is a common stage and that all that is needed is some sleep. They can relate on the basis of shared experiences, which has proven to be very effective and very important in order to prevent the subject from using any drugs that he or she might have saved. In many of these cases the subject is calmed down and sleep medication can be requested and is often advised by the team.

During the third stage most subjects fall asleep for a couple of hours, with or without the help of some sleep medication, after which they generally awake feeling rested, very hungry and in need to wash up. In the course of this day most people are able to resume normal activities. Many subjects need to spend more time in or around the treatment facility to process what has happened to them and to adjust. Some people request to talk about their experience, others prefer privacy. Some subjects experience up to about 15% of withdrawal symptoms after treatment, like some minor chills or a little yawning. An increased amount of energy and appetite and a decreased sleep requirement then continues over a three to four months period, diminishing slowly. Subjects usually stay free of cravings for several months.

Once the subject is informed of these practical aspects of a treatment with Ibogaine, I attempt to prepare him or her for the possibility of dream-like visions during the first and part of the second stage, even though approximately 25% of all subjects report not experiencing any visions. The visual and auditory experiences that possibly occur during Ibogaine treatment have demonstrated the ability to release repressed memories. The relevance of these visions in relation to the addiction interruption process is obvious when they seem to help the individual to develop an understanding of the underlying reasons for their addictive behavior. I usually ask the subjects what their expectations are around these possible Ibogaine visions. Since many addicts use drugs for their consciousness-suppressing qualities, some of them express fear of Ibogaine’s mind-altering effects. It is then explained to them that people have reported not experiencing Ibogaine as a euphoriant and that the effects of the visions on the mind do not seem to include actual processing on an emotional level. That is to say, there is no element of release of emotions like laughing or crying as is seen in many hallucinogenics. Besides, the repressed memories that are being released are usually positive, since most addicts have been dwelling on the ones that are negative.

It has proved important to explain the similarities between an addiction interruption session and the use of Ibogaine in the African tribal tradition. As Howard Lotsof explained, some West-African tribes have used Ibogaine for centuries as a form of initiation that occurs once in a lifetime when a young person is to make their transformation into adulthood by reviewing their past and to “restore communication with the ancestors.” People taking it for addiction-interruption purposes describe the visionary and auditory elements of the Ibogaine experience as a state of “dreaming wide awake.” Visions can occur in a repetitive mode. They often report visualizing a rapid run-through of their lives and/or the lives of family members, even of those who have already past away. They have noted the ability of going both backward and forward in time and being able to come to an understanding of their spiritual roots. With spiritual I do not mean religious, but I mean a hightened level of awareness. I like to call the experience a “journey into ones DNA.”

The possible amount and intensity of released material can be so overwhelming, that people have said that they simply could not remember everything they had seen, or that it took months to remember certain visions. Therefore, the processing of released material and the ability to verbalize these matters and learn to interpret their often symbolic content can take extended amounts of time and continue over years. Subjects have reported experiencing a mental or spiritual transformation due to the Ibogaine which they compare to ten years of therapy in 2 days, or taking a “thruth-serum.” Whatever people report on their experiences, they have been observed returning from their Ibogaine experiences with a greater understanding of previously made choices. However, this does not mean that the Ibogaine experience offers them the skills to interpret and approach this material in a constructive manner that can lead to positive and productive solutions and changes in the life after treatment. We have learned from experience that for many people Ibogaine treatment on itself is not enough to maintain a substance abuse-free life. Most subjects require some type of after-care in which these and other matters are addressed. Psychotherapist Barbara Judd, who has been working with substance abusers for over 15 years and who has treated people before, during and after Ibogaine treatments for over 6 years has noticed that a person treated with Ibogaine is more ready and willing to undergo therapy sessions compared to the average recovering drug abuser. Many addicts who have used Ibogaine have seem to be able to access sensitive material that lays at the core of their addictive behavior without the usual feelings of trauma and fear and the need to anesthetize these feelings with drugs as a way of defense. Their newly acquired knowledge and attitude can save the therapist a lot of time in terms of confronting the individual with possibly painful issues. In case there are traumatic issues, they need to be worked through in order to break through the cycles of self-destructive behavior and find new, positive ways to approach life and it’s problems. Subjects are stimulated to seek out or create support networks, which could range from attending Narcotics Anonymous meetings to organizing Ibogaine focus groups of their own.

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] pain patients on ibogaine
Date: July 27, 2004 at 12:22:34 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/27/04 8:58:05 AM, think@francomm.com writes:

I surely do understand your feelings of frustration (or at least I think
I do).
It is depressing to know of an effective method of treating a big problem
in this country and not be in a position of getting any of the powers that
be to
listen to you.  Maybe some do tho.  Please don’t give up!!!!!

The powers that be listened.  The University of Miami/Mash/Sanchez-Ramos did
not finish the FDA approved studies and Mash went to St. Kitts

Do you have any dialogue with Stanley Glick?  I’m not sure I know the
reasons for not going ahead with clinical trials of his Molecule fragment
(MC18?)  Is it lack of financial backing alone that holds him back or some
other reason?

Yes and to the best of my understanding lack of finance is stopping the work.
I cannot imagine if I were Stan Glick that I would not have financing to
proceed.  I really can’t understand what is going on.

Howard

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] pain patients on ibogaine
Date: July 27, 2004 at 12:17:17 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/27/04 5:49:10 AM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

I know someone who is about to do some sitting for someone else I know,
and was wondering if there was something posted somewhere, some sort of
guidelines/advice for sitters. She would like to better know what she’s
in for as a sitter, what her responsibilities are and might be, and what she
should be looking out for as a sitter. Barring something posted already,
perhaps someone can give some suggestions here that I can pass on to my
friend.

Preston,

If you are a responsible sitter, it is a lot of work.  Your job is to observe
and care for the patient.  That is a 24/7 job and if it is only one person
that means they are there full time.  Taking pulse and blood pressure
periodically and on any occasion the patient does not appear well is in order.  Knowing
what you are doing helps.  That is you have some prior experience in observing
ibogaine treated patients.  Help patients get to the bathroom or move if they
have to during the ataxic period.  If an emergency of any kind should arise,
don’t hesitate to call EMS.

For the patient, drink lots of water for two days prior to ibogaine therapy.
You want to be well hydrated.  Though not drinking for four hours prior to
administration is also a good idea in my opinion except for the liquid which is
used to swallow the capsules of ibo if that is the form taken.

Most patients will not want to eat or drink for a good long time after taking
ibogaine.  I think the sitter should try to get the subject to drink
water/juice/liquids sixteen to twenty hours after administration.  This is just a
hydration issue and I am sure there are a lot of opinions on this which I would be
very glad to hear.

Howard

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From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] IMPORTANT- any EKG suggestions?
Date: July 27, 2004 at 10:24:35 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi;

Sometimes I feel like an intruder here since to the best of my
knowledge I am not an addict.  However, I am closely related to
people (in my family) who have such problems and DAMN IT
I SURE DO CARE ABOUT Y’all!!

Randy got his EKG as part of an office visit to his primary care
doc.  The doc has a machine in his office as part of his practice
and there was no charge other than for the regular office visit.

Incidentally, this doc has been told about Ibogaine treatments and he
is all for it.  Randy’s liver specialist feels the same way and provided
us with copies of Randy’s latest blood work.  So, there are some
docs who are very receptive to the whole idea of treating with
Ibogaine.  I am giving Internet info (printouts) to all these fine
docs.  They are very interested in it.

regards

ann
think@francomm.com

Hi all,
I’ve been an idiot it appears, putting off getting my EKG thinking it
would be a quick and easy thing.
So, I just called my doctor’s office to make an appointment for my
EKG,
so I can actually do ibogaine, and have to bring in $142 just to see the
doctor, who will then decide whether or not to order the EKG for me.
Unfortunately, my own regular doctor is out of town on leave so I’ll be
seeing an intern.
My questions are these:

How much does an EKG usually cost?
Is it possible the doctor will tell me no?
Why exactly is the EKG necessary?
What is it looking for- in other words, what can it tell me/provider
that will keep me from actually doing ibogaine? Because I’m going to be
really upset if this stupid thing shows some reason why I can’t take, (or
why someone won’t give me) ibogaine.
This is becoming yet another very expensive endeavor, granted a lot
less
than continued overuse of pain killers but still, it’s a pretty big outlay
for something that may very well turn out to kill my chances to take
ibogaine. So I’m now worrying about something else, besides the simple
“taking ibogaine” thing itself.
So, any suggestions as to any way of doing this cheaper, so that I
still
get my results back this week would be much appreciated.
Would it be easier to just go into the emergency room? Would I get
results back faster? Would it be cheaper?
Another question- what should I tell my doctor as to WHY I need an EKG
done- which might just be my most important question here.
Any replies would before 2PM today would be VERY appreciated, as
that’s
when I go to see my doc to see about getting a Wednesday appointment for
the
EKG, which is apparently the only day they do these through my doctor’s
office.
Thanks in adnance for any suggestions or advice.
Peace,
Preston

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From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] pain patients on ibogaine
Date: July 27, 2004 at 9:57:14 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I surely do understand your feelings of frustration (or at least I think I
do).
It is depressing to know of an effective method of treating a big problem in
this
country and not be in a position of getting any of the powers that be to
listen to you.  Maybe some do tho.  Please don’t give up!!!!!

Do you have any dialogue with Stanley Glick?  I’m not sure I know the
reasons for not going ahead with clinical trials of his Molecule fragment
(MC18?)  Is it lack of financial backing alone that holds him back or some
other reason?

respectfully

Ann B. Mullikin
think@francomm.com

THIS WAS ORIGINALLY POSTED TO THE METHADONE WATCHDOG BULLETIN BOARD.

Well the first thing is don’t run out and do anything.  There is no reason
to.  I think that with ibogaine, withdrawal gets as unawful as it can get.
And
the real good part is it gets better for most people after that.  That,
being
about 2 to 5 days.  As a pain patient you have two very different options,
maybe more.  The earliest work by Jurg Schneider a Ciba Pharmacologist who
went
on to become the President of Dupont’s Biochemical’s Division was the
finding
that ibogaine potentiated morphine analgesia and that of other narcotics
as
well.  What he did not know was that this potentiation in human subjects
could
easily last three to six months from a brief ibogaine regimen. And in my
opinion
that does not begin to take in account the psychotherapeutic aspects and
benefits of the experience.

That being said, a pain patient can 1) use ibogaine to reduce pain
medication, 2) be treated with ibogaine to come off of pain medication or
3)  just to
gain insight and feel better about being a pain patient.  And if you have
another Ibogaine treatment you can change you mind about what you want to
do.  In
fact you don’t even have to have the Ibogaine treatment to do that. The
dose
regimens for each would be somewhat different but, no big surprises.

And, with ibogaine, decisions are all up to you.  Ibogaine providers will
generally work with you. If they don’t you can go to another provider or
contact
me and I will speak to them on your behalf.  I have just initiated an
Ibogaine
Grievance Form that will allow Ibogaine treated patients the same rights
as
methadone, cancer and other patients to file grievances.  see
http://wwwdoraweiner.org/incident.html and it can be initially filed right
from the web page.
I think ibogaine providers will pay Ibogaine patients a lot more attention
at
this time than most methadone providers pay methadone patients as they
really
want satisfied patients.

So as a pain patient you can take ibogaine and then make a decision as to
what you want to do as a pain patient – that is if you are still a pain
patient –
no pressure whatsoever.

I just must apologize for not being able to provide ibogaine as an FDA
approved medication. In that sense I failed to do what I set out to do, to
make
Ibogaine available to anyone who wants or needs it.  Had I succeeded any
of you
who wished to be treated could be treated at just about any hospital or
Swiss
spa but, at least ibogaine is out there and so are all of you.  So as that
sergeant from that police show you to say, “You all be careful out there.”
If you
are treated with Ibogaine and do decide to continue pain medication DO NOT
take the same dose you did before Ibogaine therapy.  I would suggest 1/10
to 1/4
or your original dose for testing and them work form there.  If methadone
is
concerned do not dose escalate up in shorter time periods than four hours
between doses.

Ibogaine for pain management is a new and exciting field of research. I
really wish I was running an ibogaine/pain management clinical trial. That
would
really be interesting.

Howard

Howard S. Lotsof
President
Dora Weiner Foundation
POB 10032
Staten Island, NY 10301-0032
USA
dir tel, 1 718 442-2754
dir fax, 1 718 442-1957
email, dwf123@earthlink.net
http://www.doraweiner.org

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] pain patients on ibogaine
Date: July 27, 2004 at 6:48:27 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks very much for posting this one Howard,
Seems very timely one might say.
I’ve another question/favor to ask.
I know someone who is about to do some sitting for someone else I know,
and was wondering if there was something posted somewhere, some sort of
guidelines/advice for sitters. She would like to better know what she’s in
for as a sitter, what her responsibilities are and might be, and what she
should be looking out for as a sitter. Barring something posted already,
perhaps someone can give some suggestions here that I can pass on to my
friend.
Thanks kindly in advance.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 2:07 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] pain patients on ibogaine

THIS WAS ORIGINALLY POSTED TO THE METHADONE WATCHDOG BULLETIN BOARD.

Well the first thing is don’t run out and do anything.  There is no reason
to.  I think that with ibogaine, withdrawal gets as unawful as it can get.
And
the real good part is it gets better for most people after that.  That,
being
about 2 to 5 days.  As a pain patient you have two very different options,
maybe more.  The earliest work by Jurg Schneider a Ciba Pharmacologist who
went
on to become the President of Dupont’s Biochemical’s Division was the
finding
that ibogaine potentiated morphine analgesia and that of other narcotics
as
well.  What he did not know was that this potentiation in human subjects
could
easily last three to six months from a brief ibogaine regimen. And in my
opinion
that does not begin to take in account the psychotherapeutic aspects and
benefits of the experience.

That being said, a pain patient can 1) use ibogaine to reduce pain
medication, 2) be treated with ibogaine to come off of pain medication or
3)  just to
gain insight and feel better about being a pain patient.  And if you have
another Ibogaine treatment you can change you mind about what you want to
do.  In
fact you don’t even have to have the Ibogaine treatment to do that. The
dose
regimens for each would be somewhat different but, no big surprises.

And, with ibogaine, decisions are all up to you.  Ibogaine providers will
generally work with you. If they don’t you can go to another provider or
contact
me and I will speak to them on your behalf.  I have just initiated an
Ibogaine
Grievance Form that will allow Ibogaine treated patients the same rights
as
methadone, cancer and other patients to file grievances.  see
http://wwwdoraweiner.org/incident.html and it can be initially filed right
from the web page.
I think ibogaine providers will pay Ibogaine patients a lot more attention
at
this time than most methadone providers pay methadone patients as they
really
want satisfied patients.

So as a pain patient you can take ibogaine and then make a decision as to
what you want to do as a pain patient – that is if you are still a pain
patient –
no pressure whatsoever.

I just must apologize for not being able to provide ibogaine as an FDA
approved medication. In that sense I failed to do what I set out to do, to
make
Ibogaine available to anyone who wants or needs it.  Had I succeeded any
of you
who wished to be treated could be treated at just about any hospital or
Swiss
spa but, at least ibogaine is out there and so are all of you.  So as that
sergeant from that police show you to say, “You all be careful out there.”
If you
are treated with Ibogaine and do decide to continue pain medication DO NOT
take the same dose you did before Ibogaine therapy.  I would suggest 1/10
to 1/4
or your original dose for testing and them work form there.  If methadone
is
concerned do not dose escalate up in shorter time periods than four hours
between doses.

Ibogaine for pain management is a new and exciting field of research. I
really wish I was running an ibogaine/pain management clinical trial. That
would
really be interesting.

Howard

Howard S. Lotsof
President
Dora Weiner Foundation
POB 10032
Staten Island, NY 10301-0032
USA
dir tel, 1 718 442-2754
dir fax, 1 718 442-1957
email, dwf123@earthlink.net
http://www.doraweiner.org

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From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: RE: [ibogaine] AnyoneFormer’done gone2Bupe
Date: July 27, 2004 at 6:22:06 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I don’t know if this is the link that you’re looking for but this site is an
Opiate Detox Forum and if you go to the Bup/Sub part you’ll find loads of
info there on people’s experiences.  (Personally I think they make too much
of a big deal about Sub WDs-don’t let them scare you!)  Also the FAQ/INFO
part has some info on Sub too.  Hope this helps!

http://64.226.201.78/Forum/default.asp

lol Hannah
—– Original Message —–
From: “Terrell Tye” <trtye@gci.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 5:17 PM
Subject: Re: RE: [ibogaine] AnyoneFormer’done gone2Bupe

Brad, So you’re the originator of that thread. I thought it was Jim.
Anyway, I can’t believe how good I feel right now. As I mentioned, on Fri.
night I had quite a bit to drink and didn’t actually go to bed til around
3:30am. So you’d think I’d be really tired and get to sleep early on Sat.
night (remember I’m 51 and hangovers cost dearly the older you get). Well, I
got my jammies on and got in the bed with my laptop at around 10:30 pm Sat.
nite. I even took 5mg valium, cause I didn’t feel sleepy. I was wide awake
until 7:00 am and that’s after taking another 10mgs valium. I slept till
11:30 and got up and felt great. I’m usually a bear/bitch/jerk unless I get
at least 7 hours of sleep and I felt none of that. I just felt good,
energized. Same this morning, woke up at about 5:45am (again I normally
sleep til 9:00 at least). I tried to get back to sleep by taking 10 mg
valium but the bupe says “hey, get up…you don’t need the sleep”.  I was
going to use this as a detox for m

ethadone over a month’s taper but I’m beginning to rethink that. My
biggest problem when not doing opiates is the depression and utter lack of
energy. If I have to go back to that, I’d rather stay on a maitenance dose.
This extra energy may just be an initial reaction but it certainly is a
pleasant one. Good luck to you on tapering off the done and switching over.
By the way, there were a couple of posts that referred to a great site
about bupe and it’s physiological effects (adverse or otherwise) but I
missed the post with the URL. Can anyone provide that for me again? Thanks
so much, trtye

From  Brad Fisher <brad.fisher@guaranty.com>
Sent  Monday, July 26, 2004 7:32 am
To  trtye@gci.net
Cc
Bcc
Subject  RE: [ibogaine] AnyoneFormer’done gone2Bupe

————————————————————————–
——

Thank you for printing the weeks schedule coming off… I am on an
unusually high dose of Methadone (I am a rapid metabolizer) and have been
for 5 years. My (baby) just graduated from Hi School and now I am thinking
of coming off. I wanted and needed the stability Methadone provided for her
last few years at home and school. Now I believe is a better time for the
turmoil of kicking…. I’ve read different acct.’s/reports you have the
experiance of actually doing it, most others are suggestions.
bf

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] Ibogaine gets the Reefer Madness treatment in UK newspaper
Date: July 27, 2004 at 2:20:35 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

OK you UK guys/gals.  How about putting the sense of these two articles
together and demanding ibogaine therapy.  Ask how many dead they expect from their
vaccination program? And considering the way the drug using mind works, if you
can’t get your kicks from cocaine, heroin, alcohol, nicotine, why just wait
for someone to invent a new and more dangerous drug.  Let them vaccinate their
own children and wait ten years to evaluate the effects.

Howard

Newshawk: http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/issues/pharmacotherapy.html
Pubdate: Sun, 25 Jul 2004
Source: Independent  (UK)
Copyright: 2004 Independent Newspapers Ltd.
Contact: letters@independent.co.uk
Website: http://www.independent.co.uk/
Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/209
Authors: Sophie Goodchild and Steve Bloomfield

CHILDREN TO GET JABS AGAINST DRUG ADDICTION

Ministers Consider Vaccination Scheme. Heroin, Cocaine and Nicotine Targeted

A radical scheme to vaccinate children against future drug addiction is
being considered by ministers, The Independent on Sunday can reveal.

Under the plans, doctors would immunise children at risk of becoming
smokers or drug users with an injection. The scheme could operate in a
similar way to the current nationwide measles, mumps and rubella
vaccination programme.

Childhood immunisation would provide adults with protection from the
euphoria that is experienced by users, making drugs such as heroin and
cocaine pointless to take. Such vaccinations are being developed by
pharmaceutical companies and are due to hit the market within two years.

The Department of Trade and Industry has set up a special project to
investigate ways of using new scientific breakthroughs to combat drug and
nicotine addiction.

A national anti-drug immunisation scheme is one of the proposals being put
forward by the Brain Science, Addiction and Drugs project, an expert
committee of scientists appointed by the Government earlier this year.

Professor David Nutt, a leading government drugs adviser who sits on the
committee, told the IoS that anti-drug vaccines for children are likely to
be among the panel’s recommendations when it reports next March.

Professor Nutt, head of psychopharmacology at the University of Bristol and
a senior member of the Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs, said:
“People could be vaccinated against drugs at birth as you are against
measles. You could say cocaine is more dangerous than measles, for example.
It is important that there is a debate on this issue. This is a huge topic
– addiction and smoking are major causes of premature death.”

According to the Government’s own figures, the cost of drug addiction –
through related crime and health problems – to the economy is UKP12bn a
year. There is a strong incentive for the Government to find new ways to
halt spiralling addiction. Last week, the IoS revealed that cocaine use had
trebled in Britain with increasing numbers of users switching to highly
addictive crack cocaine.

Scientists are already conducting trials for drugs that can be used by
doctors to vaccinate against cocaine, heroin and nicotine addiction.

Xenova, the British biotechnology firm, has carried out trials on an
anti-cocaine vaccine which showed that 58 per cent of patients remained
cocaine-free after three months.

Meanwhile, experts at the Scripps Research Institute in San Diego,
California, have developed a super-virus, harmless to humans, which
produces proteins that can block or reduce the effects of cocaine.

The team at Scripps tested the virus on rats by injecting it into their
noses twice a day for three days.

On the fourth day, the rats were given a shot of cocaine. The researchers
found that cocaine had more effect on the rats not injected with the virus
than those that were. Scientists hope that the virus will help stop the
cravings experienced by cocaine users for the drug by blocking the pleasure
they normally associate with cocaine. This anti-drug medication is expected
to be available to users within the next two years in the form of a nasal
spray.

Proposals to introduce a national anti-drug vaccination programme have been
given a cautious welcome by MPs and experts.

Ian Gibson, head of the Commons Science and Technology Committee, said the
Government would have to carry out public consultation. “There is no reason
to think this would not be a starter or beneficial,” said Dr Gibson, Labour
MP for Norwich North. “But … proper consultation with the public needs to
happen well in advance.”

David Hinchliffe, chairman of the Commons Health Committee and Labour MP
for Wakefield, said: “This could have a huge impact on society in terms of
preventing damage to others and dealing with addicts. [But] the ethical
perspective does need to be looked at closely.”

The National Treatment Agency, which manages drug-addiction programmes,
welcomed any new ways of treating addiction but said there was no “magic
bullet”.
In a message dated 7/26/04 4:48:40 PM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

—– Original Message —–

From: “Robert Merkin” <bobmerk@earthlink.net>

To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>

Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 2:03 PM

Subject: [drugwar] Ibogaine gets the Reefer Madness treatment in UK

newspaper

Don’t think i’m subscribed to ibogaine List, so can someone please forward

this to ibogaine@mindvox.com ?

It seems the Sunday Mercury, with this one story, has just discovered
the

existence of ibogaine, and has determined it is Bad & Dangerous.

Elmer

URL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v04.n1062.a02.html

Newshawk: Herb

Pubdate: Sun, 18 Jul 2004

Source: Sunday Mercury (UK)

Copyright: 2004 Sunday Mercury

Contact: SundayMercury@mrn.co.uk

Website:

http://icbirmingham.icnetwork.co.uk/2050ourpapers/0300sundaymercury/

Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/3167

Author: Caroline Wheeler

DEADLY ‘CURE’ FOR JUNKIES

A ‘miracle drug’ which claims to cure heroin addicts in just ONE day
has

already been linked to four deaths.

Although it can be obtained officially only on prescription, the Sunday

Mercury was able to buy some for UKP 30 on the internet.

Manufacturers say Ibogaine works by instantly relieving withdrawal

symptoms

and suppressing cravings for heroin and cocaine.

The toxic substance is so powerful that it can only be prescribed by

doctors – but our reporter was able to buy a derivative of it over the

internet with no questions asked.

In the past, Ibogaine treatment has only been available privately at
UKP

500 a time.

But the Sunday Mercury has discovered that Midland addicts are buying
it

illegally from an online herbalist.

Now Ibogaine therapists, who offer expensive treatment programmes, are

warning the DIY detox approach could kill.

“It is not advisable for drug addicts to attempt an Ibogaine treatment

programme on their own,” one therapist said.

“Everyone reacts differently to Ibogaine and it could be dangerous if
you

don’t know what you are doing.  It has been known for people to die after

taking Ibogaine.”

It is believed four people have died from taking the drug, including
one

in

Britain.

Ibogaine is an unlicensed drug in the UK, and cannot be sold without
a

prescription.  But despite this restriction, one UK distributor continues

to sell a derivative of the drug online.

Last week, the Sunday Mercury bought 10 grammes of Iboga root bark

capsules

for UKP 28.98.

In an e-mail exchange the webmaster told our reporter: “I am the only

salesman of Iboga in England and supply it to people all over the country,

including in the Midlands.

“Most of my customers have been mothers who are desperate to get their

kids

off drugs.  One of them told me she has a son who was hooked on heroin
and

crack.  Iboga got him off the stuff.”

We contacted the seller later to tell him what he was doing was illegal.

“I was unaware that the Department of Health said selling Ibogaine is

illegal,” he claimed.  “Thanks for the tip.  However, I only sell Ibogaine

root bark so it should be OK.”

Last night, a spokesman for the Department of Health advised our reporter

to alert the Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency.

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] pain patients on ibogaine
Date: July 27, 2004 at 2:07:55 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

THIS WAS ORIGINALLY POSTED TO THE METHADONE WATCHDOG BULLETIN BOARD.

Well the first thing is don’t run out and do anything.  There is no reason
to.  I think that with ibogaine, withdrawal gets as unawful as it can get.  And
the real good part is it gets better for most people after that.  That, being
about 2 to 5 days.  As a pain patient you have two very different options,
maybe more.  The earliest work by Jurg Schneider a Ciba Pharmacologist who went
on to become the President of Dupont’s Biochemical’s Division was the finding
that ibogaine potentiated morphine analgesia and that of other narcotics as
well.  What he did not know was that this potentiation in human subjects could
easily last three to six months from a brief ibogaine regimen. And in my opinion
that does not begin to take in account the psychotherapeutic aspects and
benefits of the experience.

That being said, a pain patient can 1) use ibogaine to reduce pain
medication, 2) be treated with ibogaine to come off of pain medication or 3)  just to
gain insight and feel better about being a pain patient.  And if you have
another Ibogaine treatment you can change you mind about what you want to do.  In
fact you don’t even have to have the Ibogaine treatment to do that. The dose
regimens for each would be somewhat different but, no big surprises.

And, with ibogaine, decisions are all up to you.  Ibogaine providers will
generally work with you. If they don’t you can go to another provider or contact
me and I will speak to them on your behalf.  I have just initiated an Ibogaine
Grievance Form that will allow Ibogaine treated patients the same rights as
methadone, cancer and other patients to file grievances.  see
http://wwwdoraweiner.org/incident.html and it can be initially filed right from the web page.
I think ibogaine providers will pay Ibogaine patients a lot more attention at
this time than most methadone providers pay methadone patients as they really
want satisfied patients.

So as a pain patient you can take ibogaine and then make a decision as to
what you want to do as a pain patient – that is if you are still a pain patient –
no pressure whatsoever.

I just must apologize for not being able to provide ibogaine as an FDA
approved medication. In that sense I failed to do what I set out to do, to make
Ibogaine available to anyone who wants or needs it.  Had I succeeded any of you
who wished to be treated could be treated at just about any hospital or Swiss
spa but, at least ibogaine is out there and so are all of you.  So as that
sergeant from that police show you to say, “You all be careful out there.”  If you
are treated with Ibogaine and do decide to continue pain medication DO NOT
take the same dose you did before Ibogaine therapy.  I would suggest 1/10 to 1/4
or your original dose for testing and them work form there.  If methadone is
concerned do not dose escalate up in shorter time periods than four hours
between doses.

Ibogaine for pain management is a new and exciting field of research. I
really wish I was running an ibogaine/pain management clinical trial. That would
really be interesting.

Howard

Howard S. Lotsof
President
Dora Weiner Foundation
POB 10032
Staten Island, NY 10301-0032
USA
dir tel, 1 718 442-2754
dir fax, 1 718 442-1957
email, dwf123@earthlink.net
http://www.doraweiner.org

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From: ElixerD9@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] me.
Date: July 26, 2004 at 11:40:01 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Http://www.911inplainsight.com

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] AnyoneFormer’done gone2Bupe
Date: July 26, 2004 at 10:32:13 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Randy, don’t be sorry about a long message. I found it rea;;y informative. I never believe anyone from the ‘establishment’ when it comes to pharmaceuticals. I learn from books and people like yourself! Thanks.
Julian

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] IMPORTANT- any EKG suggestions?
Date: July 26, 2004 at 9:40:57 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Preston,

I am going to need an EKG as well, so I appreciate the info and the discussion.  I have insurance, so I guess that should make it easier, but these days you never know.

Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Mc…..More well wishes!
Date: July 26, 2004 at 9:30:19 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I second that emotion really glad for you man..best of luck and have a good trip:)

Sean

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] IMPORTANT- any EKG suggestions?
Date: July 26, 2004 at 9:03:35 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

they had the treadmill but I just had to sit and let the machine listen and
read and draw pretty graphs.
yes, they gave me the printout too.
It went incredibly easy, I think in part because I paid cash, and didn’t
have to go through some stupid managed care system.
The one advantage of having preexisting condition mand n o health
insurance is I don’t have to deal with some anonymous dweedoid in some
office somewhere telling me or my doc or my pharmacist that I don’t
need/can’t have this/that/or the other.
Peace,
preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 8:13 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] IMPORTANT- any EKG suggestions?

Hi Preston,

Did they give you paper work to go along with that EKG?  My doc always gives
me my paper work for blood  ( I just ask nicely) but I did not want to ask
for the EKG.

How you were able to find one for $ 50 is beyond me.  Did they have you walk
on the treadmil like I did?

Now you need money to get the Igbo treatment, put the $ 50 EKG on E-Bay and
you will make be rich.  In Michigan it cost $50 to use the rest room in a
hospital.

Glad to hear from ya,

– JIM

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Thanks Jon.
Just to let you all know, I had exactly ZERO problem getting the EKG
done today, once I finally got the number of a doctor’s office on 22nd.
Street, a cardiologist’s office.
Howard gave me a good idea too, but turns out I didn’t need to go that
route, but thanks anyway for the call Howard.
Anyway, it appears that despite my fears and worries I have a perfectly
healthy heart, so that’s one hurdle over and one step closer.
I’m getting nervouser and nervouser, but much more exciteder and
exciteder too. I’ve begun to set aside 15 to 20 minutes an evening for
silent contemplation, taking time to ask questions of whatever powers that
be, to show me where I should be, how I should go about getting there, what
can/should I be doing to improve myself and my immediate surroundings day by
day, and other related but simple questions like! this. Seems almost like I
know the answers too, or should anyway, but am hoping that perhaps the
iboga-spirits (or whatever it is) can and will help me figure out not only
the answers but why I have so far all my freakin’ life, so much trouble
taking the answers and running with them.
Ibogaine/Ibeginagain.
I like that one DH.
;-))
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Jon Ludlam”
To:
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 2:34 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] IMPORTANT- any EKG suggestions?

Message text written by INTERNET:ibogaine@mindvox.com
Wish me luck folks.
Peace and love,
Preston<

GOOD LUCK PRESTON!!!!!!!!!

Jon Ludlam

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Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – 50x more storage than other providers!

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] IMPORTANT- any EKG suggestions?
Date: July 26, 2004 at 8:13:39 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Preston,

Did they give you paper work to go along with that EKG?  My doc always gives me my paper work for blood  ( I just ask nicely) but I did not want to ask for the EKG.

How you were able to find one for $ 50 is beyond me.  Did they have you walk on the treadmil like I did?

Now you need money to get the Igbo treatment, put the $ 50 EKG on E-Bay and you will make be rich.  In Michigan it cost $50 to use the rest room in a hospital.

Glad to hear from ya,

– JIM

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Thanks Jon.
Just to let you all know, I had exactly ZERO problem getting the EKG
done today, once I finally got the number of a doctor’s office on 22nd.
Street, a cardiologist’s office.
Howard gave me a good idea too, but turns out I didn’t need to go that
route, but thanks anyway for the call Howard.
Anyway, it appears that despite my fears and worries I have a perfectly
healthy heart, so that’s one hurdle over and one step closer.
I’m getting nervouser and nervouser, but much more exciteder and
exciteder too. I’ve begun to set aside 15 to 20 minutes an evening for
silent contemplation, taking time to ask questions of whatever powers that
be, to show me where I should be, how I should go about getting there, what
can/should I be doing to improve myself and my immediate surroundings day by
day, and other related but simple questions like this. Seems almost like I
know the answers too, or should anyway, but am hoping that perhaps the
iboga-spirits (or whatever it is) can and will help me figure out not only
the answers but why I have so far all my freakin’ life, so much trouble
taking the answers and running with them.
Ibogaine/Ibeginagain.
I like that one DH.
;-))
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Jon Ludlam”
To:
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 2:34 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] IMPORTANT- any EKG suggestions?

Message text written by INTERNET:ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Wish me luck folks.
Peace and love,
Preston<

GOOD LUCK PRESTON!!!!!!!!!

Jon Ludlam

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Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – 50x more storage than other providers!

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] Ibogaine gets the Reefer Madness treatment in UK newspaper
Date: July 26, 2004 at 5:48:06 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hmmm,
Here’s comes that slightly trepidatious feeling again.
But hey, no risk, no gain, right?
Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Robert Merkin” <bobmerk@earthlink.net>
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 2:03 PM
Subject: [drugwar] Ibogaine gets the Reefer Madness treatment in UK
newspaper

Don’t think i’m subscribed to ibogaine List, so can someone please forward
this to ibogaine@mindvox.com ?

It seems the Sunday Mercury, with this one story, has just discovered the
existence of ibogaine, and has determined it is Bad & Dangerous.

Elmer

URL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v04.n1062.a02.html
Newshawk: Herb
Pubdate: Sun, 18 Jul 2004
Source: Sunday Mercury (UK)
Copyright: 2004 Sunday Mercury
Contact: SundayMercury@mrn.co.uk
Website:
http://icbirmingham.icnetwork.co.uk/2050ourpapers/0300sundaymercury/
Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/3167
Author: Caroline Wheeler

DEADLY ‘CURE’ FOR JUNKIES

A ‘miracle drug’ which claims to cure heroin addicts in just ONE day has
already been linked to four deaths.

Although it can be obtained officially only on prescription, the Sunday
Mercury was able to buy some for UKP 30 on the internet.

Manufacturers say Ibogaine works by instantly relieving withdrawal
symptoms
and suppressing cravings for heroin and cocaine.

The toxic substance is so powerful that it can only be prescribed by
doctors – but our reporter was able to buy a derivative of it over the
internet with no questions asked.

In the past, Ibogaine treatment has only been available privately at UKP
500 a time.

But the Sunday Mercury has discovered that Midland addicts are buying it
illegally from an online herbalist.

Now Ibogaine therapists, who offer expensive treatment programmes, are
warning the DIY detox approach could kill.

“It is not advisable for drug addicts to attempt an Ibogaine treatment
programme on their own,” one therapist said.

“Everyone reacts differently to Ibogaine and it could be dangerous if you
don’t know what you are doing.  It has been known for people to die after
taking Ibogaine.”

It is believed four people have died from taking the drug, including one
in
Britain.

Ibogaine is an unlicensed drug in the UK, and cannot be sold without a
prescription.  But despite this restriction, one UK distributor continues
to sell a derivative of the drug online.

Last week, the Sunday Mercury bought 10 grammes of Iboga root bark
capsules
for UKP 28.98.

In an e-mail exchange the webmaster told our reporter: “I am the only
salesman of Iboga in England and supply it to people all over the country,
including in the Midlands.

“Most of my customers have been mothers who are desperate to get their
kids
off drugs.  One of them told me she has a son who was hooked on heroin and
crack.  Iboga got him off the stuff.”

We contacted the seller later to tell him what he was doing was illegal.

“I was unaware that the Department of Health said selling Ibogaine is
illegal,” he claimed.  “Thanks for the tip.  However, I only sell Ibogaine
root bark so it should be OK.”

Last night, a spokesman for the Department of Health advised our reporter
to alert the Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency.

<]=———————————————————————–=[

[           Moderated by: Preston Peet |
.drugwar.com           ]
|          -=/[ To Subscribe: drugwar-subscribe@mindvox.com ]/=-
|
|             To Unsubscribe: drugwar-unsubscribe@mindvox.com
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] IMPORTANT- any EKG suggestions?
Date: July 26, 2004 at 5:30:45 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks Jon.
Just to let you all know, I had exactly ZERO problem getting the EKG
done today, once I finally got the number of a doctor’s office on 22nd.
Street, a cardiologist’s office.
Howard gave me a good idea too, but turns out I didn’t need to go that
route, but thanks anyway for the call Howard.
Anyway, it appears that despite my fears and worries I have a perfectly
healthy heart, so that’s one hurdle over and one step closer.
I’m getting nervouser and nervouser, but much more exciteder and
exciteder too. I’ve begun to set aside 15 to 20 minutes an evening for
silent contemplation, taking time to ask questions of whatever powers that
be, to show me where I should be, how I should go about getting there, what
can/should I be doing to improve myself and my immediate surroundings day by
day, and other related but simple questions like this. Seems almost like I
know the answers too, or should anyway, but am hoping that perhaps the
iboga-spirits (or whatever it is) can and will help me figure out not only
the answers but why I have so far all my freakin’ life, so much trouble
taking the answers and running with them.
Ibogaine/Ibeginagain.
I like that one DH.
;-))
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Jon Ludlam” <seraphina@compuserve.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 2:34 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] IMPORTANT- any EKG suggestions?

Message text written by INTERNET:ibogaine@mindvox.com
Wish me luck folks.
Peace and love,
Preston<

GOOD LUCK PRESTON!!!!!!!!!

Jon Ludlam

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: Carlos Jäger <jaegerca@student.ethz.ch>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] psychosis
Date: July 26, 2004 at 4:15:17 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Howard

I define the psychotic mind as experiencing convulsing thinking all the time, hearing voices, lack of  concentration, suicidal thoughts now and then, short panic attacks and stuff like that. In short the absence of peace of mind. Nowadays I am having long dreams that I can remember, and continue every night as if one could lead during sleep a kind of parallel life. Very weird.

Maybe psychotic is not the right definition, but it was the first word that came to my mind.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

Carlos

On Jul 25, 2004, at 12:01 AM, HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 7/24/04 2:33:28 PM, jaegerca@student.ethz.ch writes:

<< hi everybody, this my first post on this list. does anyone know if
ibogaine will bring some relief to a psychotic mind? >>

Carlos,

Can you provide some greater detail as to how you define the psychotic mind?

Thanks

Howard

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From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] List Annoucement
Date: July 26, 2004 at 2:53:08 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

<Handing Shiny Gold Star to Mr. Gamma>: Dave, you’re in charge of
everything.  If you experience any problems, Jon Freedlander will help
you untangle and solve ALL PROBLEMS that afflict the list in
particular, and humanity as a whole.  Whoopsie, no, wait, I forget to
make Jon a shell account.  C’est La’vie, shit happens.

ehehe… there must be something in the stars that proclaims now to be the
time to ask jon to fix machines that he doesn’t have access to. currently,
there are three machines here at work that people keep hounding me to
install ssh on. i keep telling them i would have a much better chance of
installing it successfully if i have logins on the boxen…

and if i’m supposed to be fixing humanity’s problems, i’ll need root
access on the human race too =)

Jon, just, ya know, say something soothing.  I will POP my mail once
every few days, but I’m really not gonna be replying to anything.  I
need a headcheck.

hmmm… something soothing…

umm… ok, well, how about this. bush used to be a raging alcoholic,
right? so maybe he’ll die of cirrhosis of the liver sometime soon…

course, that would make cheney president then.. so i guess that really
isn’t all that soothing. unless bush dies of cirrhosis of the liver AND
cheney dies of a heart attack at the exact same moment.

Dana … we need a downloadable cannabis plug-in.  When will that
arrive?

how about this…

http://www.budbuddy.biz/

it’s not exactly a plug in, and it only works in canada.

but damn does it make me want to move to canada =)

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From: Jon Ludlam <seraphina@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] IMPORTANT- any EKG suggestions?
Date: July 26, 2004 at 2:34:29 PM EDT
To: “INTERNET:ibogaine@mindvox.com” <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Message text written by INTERNET:ibogaine@mindvox.com
Wish me luck folks.
Peace and love,
Preston<

GOOD LUCK PRESTON!!!!!!!!!

Jon Ludlam

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] IMPORTANT- any EKG suggestions?
Date: July 26, 2004 at 1:58:25 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jim wisely scribbled >So tell you doc you were chaseing you nephew around and had trouble breathing and it sort of hurt in the middle of your chest.  Not too bad but never had it before, kinda a tighting thing. If he ask did the pain go to your arms tell him no, more in my chest, I just thought I would metion it to you, like I say I never had it before.<

Good plan. I was just sitting here thinking, trying to formulate what exactly I was gonna say, so now I hvae a good idea- a nehphew huh? How about one of my 10 cats? LOL!

>By  the way the guy from from prison planet is going to be on rense.com tonight at 10:00. (your time).  Now if you don’t want me to bring these to you attention please say so and I won’t.  I realize not everyone is interested in the same thing as I am and there will be no hard feelings, just let me know.  I don’t want to be a pest.  Sometimes I like it when someone sends me a link and other times I don’t.  So don’t be afraid to tell me to stop, I understand your a busy man and for all I know might be a Bush fan – just kidding.<

NO, I always appreciate this sort of thing, personally anyway, don’t know about the rest of the subscribers here. If I don’t want info, I simply delete it or ignore it. I seldom if ever tell someone not to post it.

>Tell Dr. Thomas I said he is an asshole.<
I rarely if ever see him. He’s not my doctor, so I tend to avoid him if at all possible. My own doc is much nicer and more amenable. That all said, hopefully soon I won’t have to tell either of them much at all so often as I do these days. Hopefully my need to see/speak with even my own pain doc with dramatically decrease soon.
;-))
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 1:27 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] IMPORTANT- any EKG suggestions?

Hi Preston,

About two months ago my daughter wanted me to play monster.  I chase her and try to catch her and put her in the oven.  And I just miss catching her.  She is 8 years old.  Well I was playing with her and a nephew who was 5 years old and I got  short winded, couldn’t breath too good,  had to stop and for some unknowen reason I have had pain on the left side that been hurting for 4 or 5 years, nobody knows why.  He orderded an empazema test or two which I did in the office right there and then.  And he scheduled me for an EKG.  I got a little emphazema.  Heart’s fine.

So tell you doc you were chaseing you nephew around and had trouble breathing and it sort of hurt in the middle of your chest.  Not too bad but never had it before, kinda a tighting thing. If he ask did the pain go to your arms tell him no, more in my chest, I just thought I would metion it to you, like I say I never had it before.

By  the way the guy from from prison planet is going to be on rense.com tonight at 10:00. (your time).  Now if you don’t want me to bring these to you attention please say so and I won’t.  I realize not everyone is interested in the same thing as I am and there will be no hard feelings, just let me know.  I don’t want to be a pest.  Sometimes I like it when someone sends me a link and other times I don’t.  So don’t be afraid to tell me to stop, I understand your a busy man and for all I know might be a Bush fan – just kidding.
Tell Dr. Thomas I said he is an asshole.

Best to ya,

– JIM
Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Hi all,
I’ve been an idiot it appears, putting off getting my EKG thinking it
would be a quick and easy thing.
So, I just called my doctor’s office to make an appointment for my EKG,
so I can actually do ibogaine, and have to bring in $142 just to see the
doctor, who will then decide whether or not to order the EKG for me.
Unfortunately, my own regular doctor is out of town on leave so I’ll be
seeing an intern.
My questions are these:

How much does an EKG usually cost?
Is it possible the doctor will tell me no?
Why exactly is the EKG necessary?
What is it looking for- in other words, what can it tell me/provider
that will keep me from actually doing ibogaine? Because I’m going to be
really upset if this stupid thing shows some reason why I can’t take, (or
why someone won’t give me) ibogaine.
This is becoming yet another very expensive endeavor, granted a lot less
than continued overuse of pain killers but still, it’s a pretty big outlay
for something that may very well turn out to kill my chances to take
ibogaine. So I’m now worrying about something else, besides the simple
“taking ibogaine” thing itself.
So, any suggestions as to any way of doing this cheaper, so that I still
get my results back this week would be much appreciated.
Would it be easier to just go into the emergency room? Would I get
results back faster? Would it be cheaper?
Another question- what should I tell my doctor as to WHY I need an EKG
done- which might just be my most important question here.
Any replies would before 2PM today would be VERY appreciated, as that’s
when I go to see my doc to see about getting a Wednesday appointment for the
EKG, which is apparently the only day they do these through my doctor’s
office.
Thanks in adnance for any suggestions or advice.
Peace,
Preston

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RE: [ibogaine] AnyoneFormer’done gone2Bupe
Date: July 26, 2004 at 1:44:41 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Terrell,

I sent one on bupe and depression  http://balder.prohosting.com/~adhpage/bupe.html
it may be the one you want.  Patient # 1 fits me to a “T” – no energy.  Preston Peat had a good article about  bupe and the liver.  I would say if it doesn’t cause a problem give bupe a chance.  I will see a doc for bupe this Wed.  I still don’t know which way I’ll go.  Some people like it some don’t.  I always feel whatever works for you.

Best to ya,

– JIM

Terrell Tye <trtye@gci.net> wrote:
Brad, So you’re the originator of that thread. I thought it was Jim. Anyway, I can’t believe how good I feel right now. As I mentioned, on Fri. night I had quite a bit to drink and didn’t actually go to bed til around 3:30am. So you’d think I’d be really tired and get to sleep early on Sat. night (remember I’m 51 and hangovers cost dearly the older you get). Well, I got my jammies on and got in the bed with my laptop at around 10:30 pm Sat. nite. I even took 5mg valium, cause I didn’t feel sleepy. I was wide awake until 7:00 am and that’s after taking another 10mgs valium. I slept till 11:30 and got up and felt great. I’m usually a bear/bitch/jerk unless I get at least 7 hours of sleep and I felt none of that. I just felt good, energized. Same this morning, woke up at about 5:45am (again I normally sleep til 9:00 at least). I tried to get back to sleep by taking 10 mg valium but the bupe says “hey, get up…you don’t need the sleep”. I was going to use this as a detox for m

ethadone over a month’s taper but I’m beginning to rethink that. My biggest problem when not doing opiates is the depression and utter lack of energy. If I have to go back to that, I’d rather stay on a maitenance dose. This extra energy may just be an initial reaction but it certainly is a pleasant one. Good luck to you on tapering off the done and switching over.
By the way, there were a couple of posts that referred to a great site about bupe and it’s physiological effects (adverse or otherwise) but I missed the post with the URL. Can anyone provide that for me again? Thanks so much, trtye

From Brad Fisher
Sent Monday, July 26, 2004 7:32 am
To trtye@gci.net
Cc
Bcc
Subject RE: [ibogaine] AnyoneFormer’done gone2Bupe

——————————————————————————–

Thank you for printing the weeks schedule coming off… I am on an unusually high dose of Methadone (I am a rapid metabolizer) and have been for 5 years. My (baby) just graduated from Hi School and now I am thinking of coming off. I wanted and needed the stability Methadone provided for her last few years at home and school. Now I believe is a better time for the turmoil of kicking…. I’ve read different acct.’s/reports you have the experiance of actually doing it, most others are suggestions.
bf

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Read only the mail you want – Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.

From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] IMPORTANT- any EKG suggestions?
Date: July 26, 2004 at 1:27:15 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Preston,

About two months ago my daughter wanted me to play monster.  I chase her and try to catch her and put her in the oven.  And I just miss catching her.  She is 8 years old.  Well I was playing with her and a nephew who was 5 years old and I got  short winded, couldn’t breath too good,  had to stop and for some unknowen reason I have had pain on the left side that been hurting for 4 or 5 years, nobody knows why.  He orderded an empazema test or two which I did in the office right there and then.  And he scheduled me for an EKG.  I got a little emphazema.  Heart’s fine.

So tell you doc you were chaseing you nephew around and had trouble breathing and it sort of hurt in the middle of your chest.  Not too bad but never had it before, kinda a tighting thing. If he ask did the pain go to your arms tell him no, more in my chest, I just thought I would metion it to you, like I say I never had it before.

By  the way the guy from from prison planet is going to be on rense.com tonight at 10:00. (your time).  Now if you don’t want me to bring these to you attention please say so and I won’t.  I realize not everyone is interested in the same thing as I am and there will be no hard feelings, just let me know.  I don’t want to be a pest.  Sometimes I like it when someone sends me a link and other times I don’t.  So don’t be afraid to tell me to stop, I understand your a busy man and for all I know might be a Bush fan – just kidding.
Tell Dr. Thomas I said he is an asshole.

Best to ya,

– JIM
Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Hi all,
I’ve been an idiot it appears, putting off getting my EKG thinking it
would be a quick and easy thing.
So, I just called my doctor’s office to make an appointment for my EKG,
so I can actually do ibogaine, and have to bring in $142 just to see the
doctor, who will then decide whether or not to order the EKG for me.
Unfortunately, my own regular doctor is out of town on leave so I’ll be
seeing an intern.
My questions are these:

How much does an EKG usually cost?
Is it possible the doctor will tell me no?
Why exactly is the EKG necessary?
What is it looking for- in other words, what can it tell me/provider
that will keep me from actually doing ibogaine? Because I’m going to be
really upset if this stupid thing shows some reason why I can’t take, (or
why someone won’t give me) ibogaine.
This is becoming yet another very expensive endeavor, granted a lot less
than continued overuse of pain killers but still, it’s a pretty big outlay
for something that may very well turn out to kill my chances to take
ibogaine. So I’m now worrying about something else, besides the simple
“taking ibogaine” thing itself.
So, any suggestions as to any way of doing this cheaper, so that I still
get my results back this week would be much appreciated.
Would it be easier to just go into the emergency room? Would I get
results back faster? Would it be cheaper?
Another question- what should I tell my doctor as to WHY I need an EKG
done- which might just be my most important question here.
Any replies would before 2PM today would be VERY appreciated, as that’s
when I go to see my doc to see about getting a Wednesday appointment for the
EKG, which is apparently the only day they do these through my doctor’s
office.
Thanks in adnance for any suggestions or advice.
Peace,
Preston

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Tapering effects?
Date: July 26, 2004 at 1:02:46 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/26/2004 7:13:22 AM Central Daylight Time, BiscuitBoy714@aol.com writes:
Hi all, What about bringing down a meth dose and sudden withdrawal from Paxil. Would that cause feet to swell?   Thanx     Randy

Hi Randy, I am not sure about the Paxil but when there has been any change in my Methadone dose I have noticed my feet sometimes swell. This is usually when I have taken extra Methadone though.
Now this next statement is here say (is that how you spell it?!). An acquaintance from the Methadone Clinic said his liver problems got worse when he was detoxing from Methadone. He explained it but I really can’t remember what he said.
It does make sense to me that there might be extra stress on any or all of our organs during detox since we are physically addicted.
Poor circulation in lower extremities can cause swelling.
I encourage you to keep them elevated above your heart level whenever you can.
I hate it when my feet and ankles swell!
Good luck with your taper!
Callie

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] IMPORTANT- any EKG suggestions?
Date: July 26, 2004 at 12:51:21 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

To everyone who called/wrote in response,
I say thanks very much for the fast replies and suggestions, you’ve all been
most helpful. I got the name/address of a doctor on 22nd street who can and
will do an EKG today for $50.
That’s the route I am going to go I think.
So, as long as it turns out ok, I’m one step closer to a new freedom of
sorts, as noted, as long as everything goes ok today.
Wish me luck folks.
Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Aktionman22@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 11:28 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] IMPORTANT- any EKG suggestions?

preston…
i went to a hospital e.r. for my pre-ibo ekg. they did it no q’s asked.
marcus

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From: Terrell Tye <trtye@gci.net>
Subject: Re: RE: [ibogaine] AnyoneFormer’done gone2Bupe
Date: July 26, 2004 at 12:17:56 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Brad, So you’re the originator of that thread. I thought it was Jim.  Anyway, I can’t believe how good I feel right now. As I mentioned, on Fri. night I had quite a bit to drink and didn’t actually go to bed til around 3:30am. So you’d think I’d be really tired and get to sleep early on Sat. night (remember I’m 51 and hangovers cost dearly the older you get). Well, I got my jammies on and got in the bed with my laptop at around 10:30 pm Sat. nite. I even took 5mg valium, cause I didn’t feel sleepy. I was wide awake until 7:00 am and that’s after taking another 10mgs valium. I slept till 11:30 and got up and felt great. I’m usually a bear/bitch/jerk unless I get at least 7 hours of sleep and I felt none of that. I just felt good, energized. Same this morning, woke up at about 5:45am (again I normally sleep til 9:00 at least). I tried to get back to sleep by taking 10 mg valium but the bupe says “hey, get up…you don’t need the sleep”.  I was going to use this as a detox for m

ethadone over a month’s taper but I’m beginning to rethink that. My biggest problem when not doing opiates is the depression and utter lack of energy. If I have to go back to that, I’d rather stay on a maitenance dose. This extra energy may just be an initial reaction but it certainly is a pleasant one. Good luck to you on tapering off the done and switching over.
By the way, there were a couple of posts that referred to a great site about bupe and it’s physiological effects (adverse or otherwise) but I missed the post with the URL. Can anyone provide that for me again? Thanks so much, trtye

From  Brad Fisher <brad.fisher@guaranty.com>
Sent  Monday, July 26, 2004 7:32 am
To  trtye@gci.net
Cc
Bcc
Subject  RE: [ibogaine] AnyoneFormer’done gone2Bupe

——————————————————————————–

Thank you for printing the weeks schedule coming off… I am on an unusually high dose of Methadone (I am a rapid metabolizer) and have been for 5 years. My (baby) just graduated from Hi School and now I am thinking of coming off. I wanted and needed the stability Methadone provided for her last few years at home and school. Now I believe is a better time for the turmoil of kicking…. I’ve read different acct.’s/reports you have the experiance of actually doing it, most others are suggestions.
bf

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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] IMPORTANT- any EKG suggestions?
Date: July 26, 2004 at 12:16:46 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello all. leavin this morning to Mexico. So excited!!! Thanks again Howard, and yes  I would consider it it privlage for you to compile all of my rants of before and after and look back on it no matter what the out come. But lets do a spell check and throw some grammer in there to make it a little more bareable to read.  But I have faith that the outcome will be a positive one or at least I have a ghood feeling that I’m gonna get what I need from this as well as loosing this nasty habit of mine.
My approch and my resolve are so different that they’ve ever been. Just one example is that since I started shooting dope almost 10 years ago I have always been interested in “tar”. Always curious why its powder on the east and mostly tar out here in Cali. I always thought it was funny that all the west coast dopefiends that found there was to NY would alwayts talk about how much better the dope is out west and always wondered if the dope was so much better why were they living on the street in NY in the winter? Anyway my m.o. has always been when I get to a new city is to find the “hood” find someone who has that “dope look”, we all know so well, and find drugs. my versious of a tourist attraction, if you will. So when I got here it was obvious that I’d probably have a very easy time copping and I could finally try the tar… and then I’d be done. But it was the most fleeting thought I’ve had. Something inside of me said “thats not why were here”. And that was that. Needing to know, or my sick curiousity has got me where I am today. I thought about all the people pulling for me and my poor mom after all there years still by my side and that was it. I’ve shot enough shit for at least 5 or 6 lifetimes. ENOUGH! And strangly enough that was it. Gone.
I drank my last bottle of meth this morning and poured my extra bottle down the toilet. So now I really am 3,000 miles way with no meth and it feels fuckin great. Totally different that terrible feeling of fear that has come over me in the past. I did fuck up and forget my Nexium and that does fill me with a little fear but I’m sure the doctors will take care of that. I’m gonna eat breakfest now but I’ll drop you all a note once I’m settled in Mexico.
Preston, if you don’t have insurence the EKG will cost you about 100 bucks minium. So what I say you do is go to B.I. or Cabrini and tell them your having chest pain and request that they do an ekg. When the listen to your heart ore right before hold your breat for a bit so they deem it medically nessisary and then they have to give you a copy  NY state law. All medical info on you is your property.  Thats what I would do.
Or go to a walk in up town (E 106 and Third )and cough up the loot. It’ll be cheaper up there but by how much I don’t know.
Thanks for all of the good thoughts and I can’t tell you how much it means to me to know that I’ll have good vibes sent my way all this week, its really comforting to know that all of these good people care and will be thinking of me. I’ll keep you all posted.
I can’t wait!!!! -Love – Mark Corcoran

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Hi all,
I’ve been an idiot it appears, putting off getting my EKG thinking it
would be a quick and easy thing.
So, I just called my doctor’s office to make an appointment for my EKG,
so I can actually do ibogaine, and have to bring in $142 just to see the
doctor, who will then decide whether or not to order the EKG for me.
Unfortunately, my own regular doctor is out of town on leave so I’ll be
seeing an intern.
My questions are these:

How much does an EKG usually cost?
Is it possible the doctor will tell me no?
Why exactly is the EKG necessary?
What is it looking for- in other words, what can it tell me/provider
that will keep me from actually doing ibogaine? Because I’m going to be
really upset if this stupid thing shows some reason why I can’t take, (or
why someone won’t give me) ibogaine.
This is becoming yet another very expensive endeavor, granted a lot less
than continued overuse of pain killers but still, it’s a pretty big outlay
for something that may very well turn out to kill my chances to take
ibogaine. So I’m now worrying about something else, besides the simple
“taking ibogaine” thing itself.
So, any suggestions as to any way of doing this cheaper, so that I still
get my results back this week would be much appreciated.
Would it be easier to just go into the emergency room? Would I get
results back faster? Would it be cheaper?
Another question- what should I tell my doctor as to WHY I need an EKG
done- which might just be my most important question here.
Any replies would before 2PM today would be VERY appreciated, as that’s
when I go to see my doc to see about getting a Wednesday appointment for the
EKG, which is apparently the only day they do these through my doctor’s
office.
Thanks in adnance for any suggestions or advice.
Peace,
Preston

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Hel

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From: Aktionman22@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] IMPORTANT- any EKG suggestions?
Date: July 26, 2004 at 11:28:41 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

preston…
i went to a hospital e.r. for my pre-ibo ekg. they did it no q’s asked.
marcus

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] IMPORTANT- any EKG suggestions?
Date: July 26, 2004 at 11:10:47 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi all,
I’ve been an idiot it appears, putting off getting my EKG thinking it
would be a quick and easy thing.
So, I just called my doctor’s office to make an appointment for my EKG,
so I can actually do ibogaine, and have to bring in $142 just to see the
doctor, who will then decide whether or not to order the EKG for me.
Unfortunately, my own regular doctor is out of town on leave so I’ll be
seeing an intern.
My questions are these:

How much does an EKG usually cost?
Is it possible the doctor will tell me no?
Why exactly is the EKG necessary?
What is it looking for- in other words, what can it tell me/provider
that will keep me from actually doing ibogaine? Because I’m going to be
really upset if this stupid thing shows some reason why I can’t take, (or
why someone won’t give me) ibogaine.
This is becoming yet another very expensive endeavor, granted a lot less
than continued overuse of pain killers but still, it’s a pretty big outlay
for something that may very well turn out to kill my chances to take
ibogaine. So I’m now worrying about something else, besides the simple
“taking ibogaine” thing itself.
So, any suggestions as to any way of doing this cheaper, so that I still
get my results back this week would be much appreciated.
Would it be easier to just go into the emergency room? Would I get
results back faster? Would it be cheaper?
Another question- what should I tell my doctor as to WHY I need an EKG
done- which might just be my most important question here.
Any replies would before 2PM today would be VERY appreciated, as that’s
when I go to see my doc to see about getting a Wednesday appointment for the
EKG, which is apparently the only day they do these through my doctor’s
office.
Thanks in adnance for any suggestions or advice.
Peace,
Preston

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Tapering effects?
Date: July 26, 2004 at 10:53:42 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/26/04 5:39:34 AM, BiscuitBoy714@aol.com writes:

Hey all,        I am dropping my dose in preparation for the Ibogaine
treatment. Right now I’m at 40 mgs. but stated at 80 a while back. Has
anyone heard
of swelling of the feet as being a side effect of this? Thanx

Follow Jim’s advice.  See a doctor. Go to http://www.rxlist.com and check for
side effects of paxil or go to
http://www.readybb.com/nama_wespeakmethadone/viewforum.php?f=13 and post the question about your feet swelling and methadone
withdrawal.

Let us know what is up.

Howard

Howard

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From: Terrell Tye <trtye@gci.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Tapering effects?
Date: July 26, 2004 at 10:50:53 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I always tended to retain water on higher doses of methadone. You should not be seeing that
while reducing as much as you have, IMO. I agree with Jim, report it to the nurses or doctor at your clinic.

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Tapering effects?
Date: July 26, 2004 at 9:56:51 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Randy,

I have never heard of it but that doesn’t mean much.  Usually that means your retaining water or something like a diabetic.  I would mention it to someone.  Maybe like when you get your methadone dose you can mention it to the person who gives it to you and they probably will not know but may mention it to someone who mentions it to the doc etc. and you will have a hunch.   IMHO, it could cause problems.  And BiscuitBoy714 your not one of those old people you see in nursing homes with their legs all full of water.

Just a tip on how to get a little free medical advice.  Or, there is always something on the net I am sure you can find, but that’s just guessing.  Hey, I just remembered something.  Me and my doc were talking and he said in the last stages of liver disease you stomach swells and you retain water.  I would say if you got insurance, what the hell get it checked out.  If no insurance are there any free clinics around?

Best to ya,

– JIM

BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:
Hi all, What about bringing down a meth dose and sudden withdrawal from Paxil. Would that cause feet to swell?   Thanx     Randy

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Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete – You start. We finish.

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Tapering effects?
Date: July 26, 2004 at 8:12:32 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi all, What about bringing down a meth dose and sudden withdrawal from Paxil. Would that cause feet to swell?   Thanx     Randy

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Remedy
Date: July 26, 2004 at 6:59:56 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanx for the tip I’ll try it. Its weird to reply to someone on time I’m usually late with replys because what I do its usually 5 or 6 in the morning when I’m on and no one else is around much. Cool  Thanx          Randy

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Stones
Date: July 26, 2004 at 6:46:48 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yea, they talk about it on Exile on main street.  Torn and Frayed – Joe’s got a cough sounds kinda rough  ooo and the codeine to fix it. Dr. prescribes, drug store supplies  whoooo’s gonna help him to kick it.  Man I love the Stones     Randy

From: Ambeatty@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Pulling teeth
Date: July 26, 2004 at 6:42:31 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

A wonderful home remedy especially good for the swelling that comes after tooth work (or to be used anytime) is cayenne pepper.
You swallow a teaspoon, more or less. It can be put in gel caps. It can be swallowed straight, but don’t let it sit in your mouth. I follow with water and/or yogurt to cleanse the taste. Don’t take on an empty stomach, the only counterindication.
Cayenne is very healthy, cleanses the blood, can be taken every day. It is good after a trauma like a car accident to prevent shock and get you back in your body. After having wisdom teeth removed, it pushes the healing process along, minimizing swelling.

Mandy

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Tapering effects?
Date: July 26, 2004 at 6:38:15 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey all,        I am dropping my dose in preparation for the Ibogaine treatment. Right now I’m at 40 mgs. but stated at 80 a while back. Has anyone heard of swelling of the feet as being a side effect of this? Thanx          Randy

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran
Date: July 26, 2004 at 1:01:54 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

iboga iboga iboga
i will begin again
iboga iboga iboga
i will begin again
iboga iboga iboga
i will begin again
iboga iboga iboga
i will begin again
iboga iboga iboga
i will begin again
iboga iboga iboga
i will begin again
iboga iboga iboga
i will begin again
iboga iboga iboga
i will begin again
<repeat>

On Sunday, July 25, 2004, at 11:10 AM, mcorcoran wrote:

I’m sitting on my hotel bed in sunny San Diego after taking what has turned out to be the most stressful trip of my life. No ticket waiting for me at JFK then no rervastion on file at the hotel. It hasnt been easy. But tomorrow I’m off to Mexico where my journey really begins. I’m still nervous as hell but it is so worth it. My friends and family are pulling for me like I never even imagined it would be so cool to come back whole.
I still havent slept since Friday night so I’m gonna try and catch a couple but thaqnks to all of you and I’ll get on when I wake from this well needed nap.
BTW- San Diego is beautiful…. weird cuz I think they might have a bigger homeless problem than NY but with this weather that makes > sense.
Okay I’ll  be in touch. -mc

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Mc…..More well wishes!
Date: July 25, 2004 at 10:44:08 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Mc, I am so fuckin’ excited for you! You better get some zzzz’s cuz what I have read from folks on list you won’t want or be able to sleep after your ‘treatment journey’!
Best wishes and prayers and LOTS and LOTS of good Mojo being sent your way right now!
I will be thinking of you often!
Friend love, Callie

From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran
Date: July 25, 2004 at 5:10:33 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m sitting on my hotel bed in sunny San Diego after taking what has turned out to be the most stressful trip of my life. No ticket waiting for me at JFK then no rervastion on file at the hotel. It hasnt been easy. But tomorrow I’m off to Mexico where my journey really begins. I’m still nervous as hell but it is so worth it. My friends and family are pulling for me like I never even imagined it would be so cool to come back whole.
I still havent slept since Friday night so I’m gonna try and catch a couple but thaqnks to all of you and I’ll get on when I wake from this well needed nap.
BTW- San Diego is beautiful…. weird cuz I think they might have a bigger homeless problem than NY but with this weather that makes sense.
Okay I’ll  be in touch. -mc

Hannah Clay <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com> wrote:
I assume you’re talikgn about cocaine ‘bugs’? I never did know what people
were talking about when they said that! Now I’m glad I didn’t ever find
out,lol!

Mark-I think we’ll all be thinking of you and sending positive lurve vibes
your way,lol!
Hannah
—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet”
To:
Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 12:41 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran

> “your so brave”
> LOL.
> Seriously brave guy, I am excited for you.
> I for one am glad you surviced that cocaine incident- god damn but I
> remember that feeling of fear so well, that absolute terror telling
someone,
> “hey, go get help, I’m going to die,” and watching them not move, not get
> up, not do anything at all but sit there as the huge bugs began crawling
> around my face and body, so big I could feel them crunching in my fingers
as
> I yanked them from my face but couldn’t hear the pop as the strobe light
was
> too loud in my ears and I couldn’t see the damn things
because…well…they
> weren’t really there.
> Those were the days, eh?
> Peace and love to you Mark.
> Preston (make sure to fill us in upon your return. DON’T leave those of us
> still waiting in the lurch, PLEASE.)
>
>
> —– Original Message —–
> From: mcorcoran
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 6:32 PM
> Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran
>
>
> I had this dream last night that my plane was hijacked and I was trying to
> sneak in the bathroom to drink my bottles, sick huh? Maybe no more 9-11
> report before my Ibo treatment. Oh my God, I’m leavin the day after
> tomorrow. I dropped to 80 today. i guess for no other reason than kickin
an
> 80 sounds a lot more doable than a 90 or 100 or 110.
> Hey not bad for 4 weeks. But I’m not feelin all that great i have to tell
> you. But not terrible either. Excited as hell one minute scared to death
the
> next. But I guess thats normal. If one more person says “your so brave” I
> think I’ll puke. I mean I appreciate th sentiment, I really do. but I
don’t
> want this to be a thing where I need to be “soo brave” I want this to be a
> little easier than everyone seems to think. Not you guys of course. :o)
Well
> not all of you anyway. I’m feeling empowered these last few days. i guess
> looking at the prospect of being free makes me realize that a lot of the
> things that I do in my life that I’m not happy with I put up with because
in
> one way or another because if I didn’t it would make my use that much more
> difficult. Hate my job, but there is not much chance that I could make
this
> kinda money doing something I like, and I need this money for my expensive
> program, and my frivolous spending due to drugs and alcohol. My Apartment,
> its a nice place but I wouldn’t be breaking my neck trying to pay this
> ridiculous rent if it wasn’t so convenient to my program and my drinking
> haunts. Oh and Harlem being 15 blocks away has been a plus as well. Ya
know,
> shit like that. So the idea that I no longer need to live with that fear
> that if it all came crumbling down (which it feels like its going to at
any
> minute) I’d be totally screwed, is really comforting. I walked out of the
> office this afternoon and thought to myself that its more likely than not
> that I will never step foot in that place again, and instead of that fear
I
> usually feel when I think I might lose my job and wont have money coming
in,
> it was a feeling of complete relief. It was like “Thank God I’m finally
> closing the door on this miserable part of my life”. I couldn’t stop
smiling
> all the way home.
> Then on the subway I see this guy that I used to run with (Preston you’d
> know him) and he looked like death warmed over. “Just came home from doin
90
> days on the Island and lookin for dope and coke and headin uptown”. I
told
> him about the Ibogaine and he didn’t seem to have much thoughts one way or
> another. He said that it seemed like I was doing well to begin with then
he
> began to talk about how fucked up used to be and “do you remember the
time
> you had that coke OD seize running out of that restaurant on 5th St, cuz
the
> guy caught you in the bathroom fixing?” I acted like I didn’t know what he
> was talkin about but I remember obviously and instead of responding
further
> I kept asking him to keep his voice down. Actually I remembered it like it
> was yesterday after he mentioned it, just slamming the whole 20 because I
> was already so freaked out that he had burst in on me… and my legs are
> giving out and my arms are starting to go and I know its coming… I
turned
> around and said “please sir, I’m gonna die” He said something like” yeah
you
> are gonna die” but before he had a chance I collapsed and bounced around
> like a fish out of water. God its crazy because I haven’t been that kinda
> cracked out. Now 8 or 9 years later I’m an undercover junkie. But even
> though I’m about the furthest thing from that kid I was now but I’m more
> miserable than I’ve ever been.
> Anyway I got off at my stop and he continued uptown but as a got off the
> train immediately I felt better and it felt like I was supposed to see
him.
> I mean this is a kid I used to run with every day that I haven’t seen in 7
> or 8 years. Been thinking so much about my past and all the people who are
> dead and gone and how things have changed so much in less than 10 years.
> Sorry for that ramble. I’m just so all over the place. But I’m doing good.
> Gonna go watch the news.
> Thanks for everything and tonight I will respond to all.
>
> D H wrote:
>
> On Thursday, July 22, 2004, at 09:33 PM, Hannah Clay wrote:
>
> > Nice words DH, made me cry! What if you suddenly realise there ain’t
> > no music in your head no more? And you can’t even be sure what tune
> > it used to be?
>
> Hannah
>
> a lot of your story rings true for me too.
>
> Now why is it that I make women cry??? :^) (Not the music in your
> head… in your heart!)
>
> I have often found myself thinking the same thing, no music, no joy,
> what is it all coming to?
>
> I don’t have any easy answers to that. My first thought was, This girl
> needs some Ibogaine! or perhaps a toke off a really good indica joint.
> Except that can be a little too revealing if you are strung out (maybe
> that would be a good thing, i dunno) But I will say I avoided smoking
> weed when I was doing smack and crack, it made me too! aware of myself.
> which is the opposite of what I was trying to accomplish.
>
> But if the above are not options, I’d say do something good for your
> soul. Take a walk by yourself or with a close friend in a park or on
> the beach or near a river or lake or wherever is peaceful near where
> you live. Treat yourself to an ice cream or go to a music store and
> listen to something you’ve never heard before. write crazy thoughts
> down… getting them onto paper or computer screen takes them out of
> your head, and allows room for creativity, inspiration and that music
> of the heart. Geez, that sounds really fucking corny but it works. It
> may take days/weeks of writing/journaling to get the flow…
>
> You are right, finding that music in the heart is important.
>
> for me, it is knowing that at the deepest core level, I am a good
> person, a pure soul, no matter what the head tells me, or anyone else,
> for that matter. Undoubtedly Ibogaine made me ! aware of this, before Ibo
> I was just going thru the motions, and kept returning to dope no matter
> how hard I tried, or what treatment I did.
>
> But ultimately, getting off the shit will make your life
> tremendously… better. Or different anyhow. I don’t recall hearing any
> music in my heart when I was using. The only thing I heard was chaotic
> noise.
>
> > Hey, on the opiate detox site I use 2 people posted that you shouldn’t
> > take Ibogaine if you’re a woman-its dangerous! Where on earth did
> > they get that from?
>
> I do remember reading this along time ago, back in 1996-7. I think it
> stems from the fact that a woman died while on Ibogaine in Europe back
> then, but I don’t know of any science or statistics that support this.
>
> Howard?
>
> Peace,
>
> _.dh
>
>
>
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Vote for the stars of Yahoo!’s next ad campaign!
>
>
>
>
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Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail is new and improved – Check it out!

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route you take it
Date: July 25, 2004 at 2:24:20 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Correcting my previous post:
the lyric is:
“I was standing in line with Mr. Jimmy”

I always thought it was reference to cough syrup, knowing Mick and especially Keith back then, any variety would do…

_.dh

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From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route you take it
Date: July 25, 2004 at 7:47:31 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Erm…not sure about the Stones reference.  I didn’t think it’d been around
here for that long so I’m not sure about it being a problem in the 60’s.
Its definately been a major problem in France though-I think they had
problems with people hitting it up?  I’ll ask around about the Stones ref (I
love the Stones).

Thanks too-I’m always getting Naloxone n Naltrexone confused!

Hoe you’re having a nice Sunday?  I can’t wait to hear how Marcus is doing,
I guess he might be on a plane now! I really should get off my PC-my boyf is
getting really mardy!
Hx
—– Original Message —–
From: “trtye” <trtye@gci.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2004 12:15 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route
you take it

Hannah:
I could swear that somewhere I read that Bupe had been a big drug problem
in
England back in the 60’s and 70’s. And that in the Stones’ “YOU CAN’T
ALWAYS
GET WHAT YOU WANT”, that the line “Went down to see Mr. Jimmy” was a
reference to buprenorphine (a nickname, like horse for H). Have you ever
heard this? Thanks, Terrell

—– Original Message —–
From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2004 3:04 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route
you take it

I’ve heard of loadsa Doctors who don’t know what they’re talking about
when
it comes to Sub!  My Doc here in the UK still maintains that its not
addictive even though I’ve heard many personal accounts that beg to
differ.
It seems you will feel pretty shitty when you step off for a good
month-mainly tiredness and depression.  Check out the ‘Opiate Detox
Forum’
(can’t remember exact address so google it alone with the word ‘Loop’
(my
tag) and it should find it) for loadsa info on Sub WD although I think
they
make too much of a big deal about it there n scare people.  I haven’t
had
to
come off mine yet so I don’t know.  I started on 12mg a day and have
found
it pretty easy to get down to 4mg.
(Tapering is easily done though-just grind your 8mg up and divide it
into
however many piles you need.)

Doctors also don’t realise that high doses are not necessary with
Sub-like
in excess of 16mg.  Too much Sub will give you nausea and headaches n
ignorant Dr’s will just tell you to take more but that’s actually making
it
WORSE!  Even doses of 8mg have made a few people feel rough coz they
only
had little habits.  You hear of people with huge scripts wondering why
they’re feeling rough!  It doesn’t work like normal drugs-more=better
effect.

I did find that when I’m on less than 8mg I still feel H if I shoot up
so
if
you need that blocking effect bear this in mind.  Sub is still better
than

shooting up H any day (or so I strictly tell myself ;-))

Oh and Jim-be prepared for the gross taste-I hate it!  It is ok to have
a
drink straight after coz I do to get rid of the taste.  Or a sweet to
suck.
In fact when it dissolves you’re left with all this gross ‘residue’ in
your
mouth and it seems to be ok to spit this out.  The active meds will have
dissolved under your tongue-don’t worry.  Some people say it the goo
makes
them feel nauseous if they swallow it and swear by spitting it out.
Personally, I just swallow the stuff n I’m ok!

Hope something helps.  Even if it just raises some questions you’d like
to
ask your Doc!
lol Hannah

Lol Hannah

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 2:32 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the
route
you take it

Just to let you know Jim, (see bottom of this note for more info on
Bup),
My name is Preston Peet, first name being Preston. While I might
answer
to Peet, it’s not what I call myself, so you don’t have to be formal
and
use
my last name- unless you put a big Mr. in front of it. Then I might
think
yer talking to my dad though, so Preston will work just fine. Thank
you.
;-)))
Yer right too that methadone, from my own personal experienc, is
much
nastier to kick.
The pain doc I see shares office space with another pain doc, who
5
years ago, almost 6 now, first saw me for pain upon recommendation of
my
regular doc. I being the honest addict I am, and not wanting to be
given
any
drug that might counterdict the methadone, told him I was then on
methadone.
He wound up giving me three injections, one every other week, directly
into
my spine with valium being the only drug given to relax me prior to
injecting me, and a topical (it felt like) shot to numb the skin above
my
spine (but not my spine itself- as was obvious when the needle went
in-
Ouch!). These injections did nothing for the relentless pain, but
after
3,
the max he was willing to give me with no visible results, he told me
there
wasn’t anything else he could do for me, that I should “eat better and
gain
weight” as that would help build muscle and in turn that’d help me
support
my spine better. He was completely unwilling to prescribe anything for
the
pain, the reason I initially went to see him.
So I spent the next nearly 6 years not going to see them at the
pain
clinic but going to see my own doc instead. But last year it was
getting
really ridiculous, in that I was going through my pain meds way too
fast
and
they still weren’t helping enough. My doc kept saying, “you’ve got to
go
to
the specialist because the DEA will flag me if I up your dose any
higher.”
So I did, after running out of my month’s supply in less than 2
weeks.
Luckily for me, when I went in I happened to see the other doc, the
one
I’ve
now been seeing for a little over a year, who treated my pain
seriously
and
gave me what I needed and pays close attention to me and my
complaints.
But a few months ago, I went in a couple days early when my own
pain
doc
wasn’t in, and saw one of the intern types, who after writing out my
script
for the one drug realized that the coupons I’d been getting for Avinza
weren’t being accepted any longer, said, “let me get Dr. Thomas, and
maybe
he’ll be able to suggest something else.” Right after she walked out I
though, “oh shit, he’s the one who didn’t help me last time.”
Sure enough, the first thing this bozo did when walking in was
tell
me
he would have treated me in different fashion than my own pain doc
was,
then
asked me, “are you selling your pills? No offense but are you?”
Understanding the question but still offended due to the silliness
of
my
selling any of my much needed and still not quite enough drugs, I said
no.
He then said he was going to have to talk to my doc and see about
putting me on something else, as he reached into the shelf being him
to
pull
out the previously mentioned flier for bup.
I had already told this guy I had Hep C. but he was a bozo and
pain
no
attention to what I told him.
(He also took back the script the intern had already written and
wrote
one for just 6 days rather than the 3 weeks I usually got, forcing me
to
come back in less than a week and pay another $80 bucks for a simply
office
visit- that doesn’t even begin to cover the cost of scripts.)
So after I left and got home I pulled out the flier for bup/naloxone,
and
read it.
The first thing it says it that Bup is a narcotic and can be
diverted
to
street sales, which puzzled the shit outta me as that was his biggest
concern supposedly- why would he change my script due to a stated fear
I
could be selling my drugs to another script I could sell just as
easily?
Then I read the whole page where it says that Bup does holy hell
to
a
liver and that if on Bup we should pay attention to all sorts of
symptoms
that show it’s causing yet more damage to a damaged liver.
Why the hell would he feel the need to take me off a drug that I
know
is
helping me to put me on another that the only selling point to is that
it
is
a drug to help withdrawals while treatig pain too? Seems a bit odd to
me
that he is pushing a drug that is just as addictive and a LOT worse
for
my
body. Are doctors, or this doctor anyway, so frightened by DrugWar
propaganda and scare tactics that he/they really feel that Bup is
“better”
than a more natural, less toxic on the liver opiate based medication?
Yes, it seem so if my own experiences are any indication.
Anyway, Bup doesn’t seem all that safe either nor well tested, as
Dr.
Andrew Byrne in Australia pointed out recently:

It is worrying that the
American FDA has approved the marketing of the combination product
(bup
and
naltrexone, and naloxone) even
before research of this nature had been established. One wonders if
they
have different standards for drugs used in the treatment of
addiction.<

This is clipped from the comments about Bup you can find just below
here.
So I hope this give syou some more idea of Bup and the mentality
pushing
this stuff. I think it goes hand in hand with the same mentality that
pushed
methadone as opposed to simply PRESCRIBING HEROIN, a much less toxic,
more
effective, all around better drug.
But then, that would not only be more humane, it would make sense,
and
we can’t have that now can we? I mean, we are waging a war on some
drugs
and
users, right? Soooo.
Peace,
Preston

Pharmacokinetics of high-dose buprenorphine following single
administration of sublingual tablet formulations in opioid naïve
healthy
male volunteers under a naltrexone block. McAleer SD, Mills RJ, Polack
T, Hussain T, Rolan PE, Gibbs AD, Mullins FGP, Hussein Z. Drug Alc
Depend (2003) 72; 1:75-83

Dear Colleagues,
At last we have some real data on buprenorphine half lives, absorption
and effects from healthy volunteer studies. These researchers, who
were
working for the manufacturers, have taken 35 healthy males and given
substantial doses of buprenorphine after 50 -150mg naltrexone ‘block’.
They then measured clinical and blood parameters at regular intervals
for up to 3 days in an in-patient setting. Techniques for measuring
blood levels of buprenorphine are still being developed and are not
generally available in clinical practice. This makes patient history
and
clinical observation even more important than otherwise. A liquid
chromatographic tandem mass spectrometric (LC-MS/MS) assay was
developed
by these researchers and it was validated for the measurement of
buprenorphine and nor-buprenorphine, its metabolite, in blood.

Mean half life was found to be 26 hours with a wide range from 9 to
69.
Interestingly, these authors have confirmed some observations in
clinical practice including highly variable half lives and the
‘bi-exponential’ decay sometimes reported by patients. Some had a
‘secondary peak’ at about 10 hours from dosing. The authors report
that
some had higher levels following meals and propose ‘entero-hepatic
recirculation’ in some cases. Maximum or ‘peak’ levels occurred
between
30 minutes and 3 hours.

The addition of naloxone in the sublingual preparation made no
difference to blood levels. The time taken for the tablets to dissolve
were similar for all dose levels from 2 to 16mg (range 6-12 min) and
were no different for the combination product. It is worrying that the
American FDA has approved the marketing of the combination product
even
before research of this nature had been established. One wonders if
they
have different standards for drugs used in the treatment of addiction.

A weakness of the study was that it did not examine levels in on-going
treatment, but just individual single doses. Thus is it more relevant
to
the initiation period, which is still a major problem for some
patients.
There were no opioid effects using the naltrexone block at between 50
and 150mg doses prior to opioid administration.

comments by Andrew Byrne ..

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dr Andrew Byrne,
Medical Practitioner, Dependency Medicine,
75 Redfern Street, Redfern,
New South Wales, 2016, Australia
Email – ajbyrneATozemail.com.au
Tel (61 – 2) 9319 5524 Fax 9318 0631
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 8:57 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the
route
you take it

Hi Peet,

Thanks Peet, very much.  I don’t believe everything I read so I like
to
get
people’s opinions or learn from their experiences.  That’s what I was
trying
to find out.  I know that you know back in the 60’s methadone was
suppose
to
be eaiser to kick than H.  There is not one person I know who
believes,
that
including many docs.

I see the suboxone doc this Wed. and I will see how things go and take
it
from there.  At least now I have something to think about or ask him.
BTW,
I asked at the drugstore how much the Subutex pills are and they are $
6
each for the 8 mg.  Thanks for your imput, it is appreciated.

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Jim Hadey >What I want to know if it is in Subutex, <

According to the flier I have in my hands right now from the company,
no
it
is not in Subutex- that contains “only the medicine burprenorphine”
while
Suboxone contines both bup and naloxone. Both Subutex and Suboxone can
cause
fairly severe side effects if the flier is any indication.
And, it IS NOT GOOD TO TAKE IF YOU HAVE HEP C!!!!!
Peace,
Preston

.
—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 2:50 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the
route
you take it

Hi all,

I know the difference between Naloxone and Naltrexone, Narcan
(Naloxone)
is
shorter acting and is shot up. What I want to know if you take it via
mouth
will it make you sick?

They put it i! t Talwin (Narcon or Naloxone) to stop people from
shooting
it
up. What I want to know if it is in Subutex, which it is, will it also
make you sick by taking it via mouth or under the tongue? It is not
suppose
to. But I would like to be sure. Like did bupe or Subutex cause anyone
to
go into w/d by placing it under the tongue? I probably will not use
smack
for the next few days but am taking quite a bit of Lortab.

Thanks for any help,

– JIM

Preston Peet wrote:
Naloxone is administered intravenously and lasts for approximately 20
minutes.<

This is Narcan, right, this Naloxone?

No matter what name they use it is still some bad shit for addicts!<
Other than for the fa ct it can and has saved a number of lives, I
agree
in
that Narcan is not a pleasent drug to be given as an opiate addict, or
so
I’ve been lead to believe from seeing it given right in front of me- a
few
here may even be able! to give us even more first hand accounts that I
have
in the following. I’ve probably posted this before, but so what? There
are
a
few newish subscribers who may not have seen this, so I post it again,
at
risk of repeating myself and in hopes of entertaining some of you:
snip-
“What’s that, Narcan?” Thomas asks.
“That’s right,” says the paramedic. “He’s a lucky guy.” He shoots the
stuff
into Void’s upper arm. “Thirty seconds, just wait. This stuff is
magic.”
Thomas doesn’t think Void is going to feel so lucky when he wakes up.
Yeah,
he’s alive, but he’d just gotten straight. Now he’s going to be really
sick.
<
end snip-
Full story:
http://www.drugwar.com/PrestonPeetIndex.shtm
Narcan-
Bringing the Dead Back to Life
chapter 20 of “Something in the Way”
copyright 2001
by Preston Peet

posted Halloween, 2002
“Why is it whenever I’m broke they’re everywhere, but when I’ve got
cash,
I
can’t find anyone?”
“Yeah wel! l, at least you’ve got money. All I got are these two lousy
videos.
Oh, hold on a second.”
Thomas watches his friend Void run over to a couple of fences standing
by
St. Marks, and 2nd Ave., and try to sell them the videotapes, to no
avail.
Thomas was exiting a building at the corner of Lafayette and Houston
Streets
after selling some freshly-stolen Shitake mushrooms as Magic
mushrooms,
calling them “Colorado Gold Tops.” Some guys he’d approached on their
way
to
a club near Fourteenth St. the night before had given him a business
card
with their work number on it, telling him to call after Thomas had
mentioned
he could get really good mushrooms. As soon as he’d woken up this
morning,
he’d run to a phone and given them a call. Setting up the deal had
been
little trouble. Thomas plays to his victims’ greed, offering them
deals
better than any they’ll know of anywhere, yet not so much better that
the
vics get suspicious. He depends on this kind ! of scam for almost his
entire
livelihood. From ! necessity he’s gotten very good at separating
people
from
their money.
Stepping out the office building’s front door, flush with the feeling
of
success and a good sum of cash, Thomas’ mind was focused on going to
score.
He’d not seen Void standing there until he’d literally bumped into
him.
“Hey, what’s up Void? ‘Scuse me, I’m on a mission. Didn’t see you.”
Void
seemed to be just standing there. “What are you doing, spanging?”
“Oh no, I need to sell these movies.” Void held out the films, still
in
their new, shrink-wrapped boxes. “I’m really sick. I need to get
straight,
bad. I’m gonna come with you, ’cause hopefully by the time you score,
I’ll
have sold these.”
Thomas hadn’t been so sure of that, and he’s still not too sure, but
he
likes Void. Thomas decides that he’ll help get him straight if Void
can’t
sell the videos. If it comes to that. Thomas doesn’t say this aloud,
as
there’s the c! hance Void’ll pull it off, but won’t try as hard if he
thinks
he’s already covered.
Everyone on the street has their own scam, their own game they play to
get
what they need. It’s deadly real to the people playing, never feeling
much
like a game to Thomas anymore. He just happens to make a bit more
money
than
most with his particular scam, enabling him to build a bigger habit.
Void rejoins him. They continue walking down St. Marks to Tompkins
Sq.,
heading through to the opposite side of the park. Unbelievably, none
of
the
spots they pass are open. There’s nobody out doing any selling. Void
doesn’t
mind as he hasn’t sold the tapes yet, but Thomas is pissed. There’d
been
dealers out and about not one hour before as he’d been on his way to
sell
the shrooms. Now there’s no one.
“What about 13th Street? Rush?” Void asks. “How’s that been?”
“It hasn’t been so good the last few days, garbage really.” Thomas
answers.
“I don’t know if they’re even! open yet. It’s only what, Two o’clock,
right?”
Thomas doesn’t want to walk over to 13th Street. Walking is beginning
to
be
a chore. He can feel the lack of dope in him, draining his energy
reserves.
Void is even worse off, but therefore more willing to put the effort
into
going the four blocks out of the way. There’s nothing for it except to
go
along, and Thomas does, grudgingly.
They head straight up 10th St. to 1st Ave., and turn right. At 12th,
one
block before they reach the spot, Void unloads the two tapes to
someone
at
an incense table, making himself the ten bucks he needs for a bag.
Thomas
is
amazed. He hadn’t expected Void to do it, not after failing the entire
walk.
“Void, why don’t you go get the dope while I go around the block and
score
some coke? We’ll meet at the Polish restaurant, Christine’s, between
12th
and 13th Streets.”
“Sure, how many do you want?”
“Get me four,” Thomas says handing him forty dollars. “Hurry
up.”Normally
he
wouldn’t trust someone with his cash, having been burned a
number of times before, but he knows Void pretty well. The two of them
are
as close to being friends as people can get and still be strung out,
and
besides, if Void knows he’s going to get some coke, he’ll be there.
He’s
a
fiend who would rather get both.
Like his now-dead friend Dan had been once, Void is another rare find.
The coke store Thomas goes to is on 12th St., just across Ave. A. It
only
takes him 5 minutes to get there, conduct his business, and get back
to
Christine’s. He arrives almost the same moment as Void, and they walk
in
together.
Neither of them look too respectable. The restaurant staff eye them
both
with suspicion and just a bit of revulsion, but no one stops them from
taking a seat at a table in the dining area.
“Let me go first, man,” Void says as soon as they are seated. “I’m
really
sick. I’m going to throw up right here if I don’t do a shot soon.! ”
It’s not a lot different for Thomas, who can feel his stomach
clenching
and
bubbling in anticipation. But he knows Void is in far worse shape so
agrees
to wait at the table for Void to go to the toilet first. One of them
has
to
wait with all their bags while the other gets straight.
“Yeah, all right already, just go.”
“The guy said this is a new batch, that it’s very good, and strong,”
Void
says under his breath.
“Yeah, they always say that it’s the best. You know that. It’d be nice
though if it’s better than what they’ve had recently, that’s for
sure.”
Thomas isn’t too hopeful. As long as it gets him straight, he doesn’t
much
care. “Hurry up. Don’t take forever, ’cause I want to go too.”
“Can I have some coke for my shot?” Void asks, still not moving.
“Hell no. I’ll give you some later, but if you do it now, I’ll be out
here
an hour waiting for you. Fuck that.” There’s no anger in his voice,
it’s
just that Thomas knows how it is on coke sometimes. “I promise, I’ll
give
you some a little later. Now go, hurry up.”
Void goes to the bathroom, leaving Thomas at the table. A waitress
comes
over right after Void walks away, so to keep the place happy, and to
feed
the both of them a little something, Thomas orders two soups and
coffees.
By
the time Void comes back to the table, Thomas is almost finished with
his
soup and very impatient.
“About fucking time, Void.” Thomas snarls as Void tries to pull out a
chair.
He misjudges the distance, pulls it too far, then sits in such a way
as
to
send both it and himself crashing to the floor.
Thomas can’t help it, and laughs out loud. Still chuckling, he bends
down
and gives Void a hand up. As he lifts, he notices Void is not
responding
well, that his eyes are way fucked up, glassy and very pinned.
“Hey, you’re not going to nod here at the table and get us thrown out,
are
you?” He watches Void struggling to keep his eyes open. “You ok?”
“Oh, come on man, you know me, I’m good. Go ahead.” Void slurs out as
he
picks up his coffee, sloshing a third of it onto the table.
Thomas can’t wait any longer. He has to trust that Void will be OK,
and
goes
to take his turn. The toilet stalls are well used by regular customers
of
the dope spot around the corner. Thomas is frequently one of those. He
knows
the restaurant well, knows he should have time to relax and go slow
without
having a manager in too quickly. He gets out his stuff and mixes up a
shot
in short order. Right as he has the vein, just about to boot, there
comes
a
firm knock on the door of the stall, then an older man’s heavily
accented
voice.
“Hey! That your friend at the table? He dead! We call Police, they
coming
now. You hurry!”
Thomas pushes in the shot before he realizes what the old guy said.
Then
as
the drugs take hold the old guy’s words sink in, giving Thomas the
simultaneous rush of the incredibly! strong drugs and the disbelief
and
shock
at what’s just been said to him through the closed toilet stall door.
The
coke rush barely tops the dope. The dealer was telling Void the truth,
because the dope feels stronger than any he’s yet found in NYC. Fast
as
he
can in the shape he’s in, he puts everything away and cleans himself
up.
He
wants to be out of the toilet before the cops arrive, not wanting any
more
attention than he’s already going to have with a dead, overdosed
friend
on
the floor. That’s already more than he wants.
He gets to the table as quickly as he can. Sure enough, Void is on the
floor, half under the table, not moving. Thomas crouches down and
shakes
him. “Wake the hell up man, the cops are coming.” This has absolutely
no
effect, so he tries smacking him on the cheeks, one after the other.
Again
there’s nothing. Void’s tattooed face and lips are by now turning a
weirder
shade of blue, and Thomas can’t find any sign of breath! ing or a
pulse.
He
pushes the table back, pulls Void’s body so he’s lying stretched out
on
his
back, and considers giving him mouth to mouth resuscitation or even
CPR.
Luckily he doesn’t have to as he’s abruptly pushed aside by two eager
paramedics, all bustle and business.
“Overdose,” says the one who pushed Thomas. “What’d he take?”
“He told me he was sick, and was going to score a bag. I think he only
did
one. That’s all the money he had, ten bucks.” Thomas is thinking that
when
the coke he himself shot in that speedball wears off, he’s also going
to
be
very stoned, and doesn’t want to be dealing with the police. They’d
arrived
with the paramedics, and now they start to question him.
“Where’d he get it? You got any yourself, kid?” One bored cop asks.
“I don’t know where he got it, and no, I don’t.” Thomas sees no need
for
complete honesty here.
Down on the floor the paramedics aren’t having any more luck than had
Thomas
in getting Void! to respond. One of them reaches into the box of
medical
supplies he’d brought in, and starts rummaging around.
“His girlfriend lives right across the street. I’m going to run see if
she’s
there, because I’m not going to the hospital with him. She should know
anyway.” The cops agree it’s a good idea, so Thomas runs to her
apartment.
Finding her home, he quickly convinces her to come with him,
explaining
along the way what’s going on.
By the time they get back to the restaurant, the paramedic is holding
a
loaded hypodermic in his hand, preparing to administer it to Void.
“What’s that, Narcan?” Thomas asks.
“That’s right,” says the paramedic. “He’s a lucky guy.” He shoots the
stuff
into Void’s upper arm. “Thirty seconds, just wait. This stuff is
magic.”
Thomas doesn’t think Void is going to feel so lucky when he wakes up.
Yeah,
he’s alive, but he’d just gotten straight. Now he’s going to be really
sick.
Narcan completely clears the system! of any vestige of the drug and
it’s
effects, at least temporarily, leaving the patient agonizingly ill.
After exactly thirty seconds, Void’s eyes shoot open. The first words
out
of
his mouth are, “I’m all right, I’m all right.” He’s not even aware
he’s
been
dead, at least not immediately, but confusion is evident on his face.
It’s
obvious something is wrong. He looks up at the paramedics and cops.
“Oh
shit.”
“Just lie there for a minute, kid. Relax.” One of the paramedics tells
Void,
who’s struggling to get to his feet. “Give it a minute, you just had a
close
call.”
“So now what?” Thomas interrupts one of the cops, who’s making
disparaging
remarks about junkies and losers to his partner. “Is he going to be
OK?”
“Yeah, he’ll be fine. They’ve got to take him in to the hospital
’cause
they
gave him a shot. It’s the law. They work on you, you ride with them.”
The
cop doesn’t look at Thomas, so Thomas doesn’t say anything else.
Void is helpe! d out of the door by the paramedics. Void’s girlfriend
goes
with him. Thomas can hear her soothing Void, giving comfort, and
almost
feel
s a pang of jealousy. He can’t imagine his girlfiend acting thus for
him.
The cops are speaking with the restaurant staff, writing in their
little
black books and ignoring him, so Thomas decides it’s definitely time
for
him
to go.
No one pays him any mind as he picks up his bag and coat, and walks
out
the
front door onto 1st Ave.
“Damn I’m glad I’m not Void right now,” he thinks, watching the
ambulance
drive away. Narcan does not look like a fun experience. If Void had
been
in
a park somewhere, he wouldn’t have had to go through that. Most
probably
he
would have simply slept through the dope, then woken up tomorrow sick,
ready
to start again. Which is of course exactly what’s going to happen.
Thomas
knows he’ll bump into Void again soon, sick as hell out looking for
drugs.
This close call won’t change a thi! ng.
It doesn’t occur to Thomas how close he himself came to lying on the
floor
being treated by the paramedics.
Thomas shakes his head, then heads to Tompkins Square to do some more
of
his
own stuff, stopping along the way to tell another couple of fiends he
knows
that “Rush is damned good today.”

Tompkins Sq. Park
Peace all,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 11:22 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route
you
take it

Jim, I did some research and my findings are as follows…
What is the difference between naltrexone and naloxone?
Functionally, they are the same type of drug. They compete with heroin
at
the receptor level and block the effect of heroin. Naloxone is
administered
intravenously and lasts for approximately 20 minutes. Naltrexone is
administered orally (pill form) and can last for 1 to 2 days.
No matter what name they use it is still some bad shit for addicts!
They are now using Naltrexone in alcoholism treatment!
Callie

ATTACHMENT part 2 image/jpeg name=shooter2.jpg

ATTACHMENT part 3 image/jpeg name=tompkinstable2.JPG

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From: trtye <trtye@gci.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route you take it
Date: July 25, 2004 at 7:26:59 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Correcting my previous post:
the lyric is:
“I was standing in line with Mr. Jimmy”

Anybody else ever hear what they were referring to?
T

—– Original Message —–
From: “trtye” <trtye@gci.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2004 3:15 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route
you take it

Hannah:
I could swear that somewhere I read that Bupe had been a big drug problem
in
England back in the 60’s and 70’s. And that in the Stones’ “YOU CAN’T
ALWAYS
GET WHAT YOU WANT”, that the line “Went down to see Mr. Jimmy” was a
reference to buprenorphine (a nickname, like horse for H). Have you ever
heard this? Thanks, Terrell

—– Original Message —–
From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2004 3:04 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route
you take it

I’ve heard of loadsa Doctors who don’t know what they’re talking about
when
it comes to Sub!  My Doc here in the UK still maintains that its not
addictive even though I’ve heard many personal accounts that beg to
differ.
It seems you will feel pretty shitty when you step off for a good
month-mainly tiredness and depression.  Check out the ‘Opiate Detox
Forum’
(can’t remember exact address so google it alone with the word ‘Loop’
(my
tag) and it should find it) for loadsa info on Sub WD although I think
they
make too much of a big deal about it there n scare people.  I haven’t
had
to
come off mine yet so I don’t know.  I started on 12mg a day and have
found
it pretty easy to get down to 4mg.
(Tapering is easily done though-just grind your 8mg up and divide it
into
however many piles you need.)

Doctors also don’t realise that high doses are not necessary with
Sub-like
in excess of 16mg.  Too much Sub will give you nausea and headaches n
ignorant Dr’s will just tell you to take more but that’s actually making
it
WORSE!  Even doses of 8mg have made a few people feel rough coz they
only
had little habits.  You hear of people with huge scripts wondering why
they’re feeling rough!  It doesn’t work like normal drugs-more=better
effect.

I did find that when I’m on less than 8mg I still feel H if I shoot up
so
if
you need that blocking effect bear this in mind.  Sub is still better
than

shooting up H any day (or so I strictly tell myself ;-))

Oh and Jim-be prepared for the gross taste-I hate it!  It is ok to have
a
drink straight after coz I do to get rid of the taste.  Or a sweet to
suck.
In fact when it dissolves you’re left with all this gross ‘residue’ in
your
mouth and it seems to be ok to spit this out.  The active meds will have
dissolved under your tongue-don’t worry.  Some people say it the goo
makes
them feel nauseous if they swallow it and swear by spitting it out.
Personally, I just swallow the stuff n I’m ok!

Hope something helps.  Even if it just raises some questions you’d like
to
ask your Doc!
lol Hannah

Lol Hannah

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From: trtye <trtye@gci.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route you take it
Date: July 25, 2004 at 7:15:30 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hannah:
I could swear that somewhere I read that Bupe had been a big drug problem in
England back in the 60’s and 70’s. And that in the Stones’ “YOU CAN’T ALWAYS
GET WHAT YOU WANT”, that the line “Went down to see Mr. Jimmy” was a
reference to buprenorphine (a nickname, like horse for H). Have you ever
heard this? Thanks, Terrell

—– Original Message —–
From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2004 3:04 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route
you take it

I’ve heard of loadsa Doctors who don’t know what they’re talking about
when
it comes to Sub!  My Doc here in the UK still maintains that its not
addictive even though I’ve heard many personal accounts that beg to
differ.
It seems you will feel pretty shitty when you step off for a good
month-mainly tiredness and depression.  Check out the ‘Opiate Detox Forum’
(can’t remember exact address so google it alone with the word ‘Loop’ (my
tag) and it should find it) for loadsa info on Sub WD although I think
they
make too much of a big deal about it there n scare people.  I haven’t had
to
come off mine yet so I don’t know.  I started on 12mg a day and have found
it pretty easy to get down to 4mg.
(Tapering is easily done though-just grind your 8mg up and divide it into
however many piles you need.)

Doctors also don’t realise that high doses are not necessary with Sub-like
in excess of 16mg.  Too much Sub will give you nausea and headaches n
ignorant Dr’s will just tell you to take more but that’s actually making
it
WORSE!  Even doses of 8mg have made a few people feel rough coz they only
had little habits.  You hear of people with huge scripts wondering why
they’re feeling rough!  It doesn’t work like normal drugs-more=better
effect.

I did find that when I’m on less than 8mg I still feel H if I shoot up so
if
you need that blocking effect bear this in mind.  Sub is still better than

shooting up H any day (or so I strictly tell myself ;-))

Oh and Jim-be prepared for the gross taste-I hate it!  It is ok to have a
drink straight after coz I do to get rid of the taste.  Or a sweet to
suck.
In fact when it dissolves you’re left with all this gross ‘residue’ in
your
mouth and it seems to be ok to spit this out.  The active meds will have
dissolved under your tongue-don’t worry.  Some people say it the goo makes
them feel nauseous if they swallow it and swear by spitting it out.
Personally, I just swallow the stuff n I’m ok!

Hope something helps.  Even if it just raises some questions you’d like to
ask your Doc!
lol Hannah

Lol Hannah

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 2:32 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route
you take it

Just to let you know Jim, (see bottom of this note for more info on
Bup),
My name is Preston Peet, first name being Preston. While I might
answer
to Peet, it’s not what I call myself, so you don’t have to be formal and
use
my last name- unless you put a big Mr. in front of it. Then I might
think
yer talking to my dad though, so Preston will work just fine. Thank you.
;-)))
Yer right too that methadone, from my own personal experienc, is
much
nastier to kick.
The pain doc I see shares office space with another pain doc, who 5
years ago, almost 6 now, first saw me for pain upon recommendation of my
regular doc. I being the honest addict I am, and not wanting to be given
any
drug that might counterdict the methadone, told him I was then on
methadone.
He wound up giving me three injections, one every other week, directly
into
my spine with valium being the only drug given to relax me prior to
injecting me, and a topical (it felt like) shot to numb the skin above
my
spine (but not my spine itself- as was obvious when the needle went in-
Ouch!). These injections did nothing for the relentless pain, but after
3,
the max he was willing to give me with no visible results, he told me
there
wasn’t anything else he could do for me, that I should “eat better and
gain
weight” as that would help build muscle and in turn that’d help me
support
my spine better. He was completely unwilling to prescribe anything for
the
pain, the reason I initially went to see him.
So I spent the next nearly 6 years not going to see them at the pain
clinic but going to see my own doc instead. But last year it was getting
really ridiculous, in that I was going through my pain meds way too fast
and
they still weren’t helping enough. My doc kept saying, “you’ve got to go
to
the specialist because the DEA will flag me if I up your dose any
higher.”
So I did, after running out of my month’s supply in less than 2
weeks.
Luckily for me, when I went in I happened to see the other doc, the one
I’ve
now been seeing for a little over a year, who treated my pain seriously
and
gave me what I needed and pays close attention to me and my complaints.
But a few months ago, I went in a couple days early when my own pain
doc
wasn’t in, and saw one of the intern types, who after writing out my
script
for the one drug realized that the coupons I’d been getting for Avinza
weren’t being accepted any longer, said, “let me get Dr. Thomas, and
maybe
he’ll be able to suggest something else.” Right after she walked out I
though, “oh shit, he’s the one who didn’t help me last time.”
Sure enough, the first thing this bozo did when walking in was tell
me
he would have treated me in different fashion than my own pain doc was,
then
asked me, “are you selling your pills? No offense but are you?”
Understanding the question but still offended due to the silliness
of
my
selling any of my much needed and still not quite enough drugs, I said
no.
He then said he was going to have to talk to my doc and see about
putting me on something else, as he reached into the shelf being him to
pull
out the previously mentioned flier for bup.
I had already told this guy I had Hep C. but he was a bozo and pain
no
attention to what I told him.
(He also took back the script the intern had already written and
wrote
one for just 6 days rather than the 3 weeks I usually got, forcing me to
come back in less than a week and pay another $80 bucks for a simply
office
visit- that doesn’t even begin to cover the cost of scripts.)
So after I left and got home I pulled out the flier for bup/naloxone,
and
read it.
The first thing it says it that Bup is a narcotic and can be
diverted
to
street sales, which puzzled the shit outta me as that was his biggest
concern supposedly- why would he change my script due to a stated fear I
could be selling my drugs to another script I could sell just as easily?
Then I read the whole page where it says that Bup does holy hell to
a
liver and that if on Bup we should pay attention to all sorts of
symptoms
that show it’s causing yet more damage to a damaged liver.
Why the hell would he feel the need to take me off a drug that I
know
is
helping me to put me on another that the only selling point to is that
it
is
a drug to help withdrawals while treatig pain too? Seems a bit odd to me
that he is pushing a drug that is just as addictive and a LOT worse for
my
body. Are doctors, or this doctor anyway, so frightened by DrugWar
propaganda and scare tactics that he/they really feel that Bup is
“better”
than a more natural, less toxic on the liver opiate based medication?
Yes, it seem so if my own experiences are any indication.
Anyway, Bup doesn’t seem all that safe either nor well tested, as
Dr.
Andrew Byrne in Australia pointed out recently:

It is worrying that the
American FDA has approved the marketing of the combination product (bup
and
naltrexone, and naloxone) even
before research of this nature had been established. One wonders if they
have different standards for drugs used in the treatment of addiction.<

This is clipped from the comments about Bup you can find just below
here.
So I hope this give syou some more idea of Bup and the mentality
pushing
this stuff. I think it goes hand in hand with the same mentality that
pushed
methadone as opposed to simply PRESCRIBING HEROIN, a much less toxic,
more
effective, all around better drug.
But then, that would not only be more humane, it would make sense,
and
we can’t have that now can we? I mean, we are waging a war on some drugs
and
users, right? Soooo.
Peace,
Preston

Pharmacokinetics of high-dose buprenorphine following single
administration of sublingual tablet formulations in opioid naïve healthy
male volunteers under a naltrexone block. McAleer SD, Mills RJ, Polack
T, Hussain T, Rolan PE, Gibbs AD, Mullins FGP, Hussein Z. Drug Alc
Depend (2003) 72; 1:75-83

Dear Colleagues,
At last we have some real data on buprenorphine half lives, absorption
and effects from healthy volunteer studies. These researchers, who were
working for the manufacturers, have taken 35 healthy males and given
substantial doses of buprenorphine after 50 -150mg naltrexone ‘block’.
They then measured clinical and blood parameters at regular intervals
for up to 3 days in an in-patient setting. Techniques for measuring
blood levels of buprenorphine are still being developed and are not
generally available in clinical practice. This makes patient history and
clinical observation even more important than otherwise. A liquid
chromatographic tandem mass spectrometric (LC-MS/MS) assay was developed
by these researchers and it was validated for the measurement of
buprenorphine and nor-buprenorphine, its metabolite, in blood.

Mean half life was found to be 26 hours with a wide range from 9 to 69.
Interestingly, these authors have confirmed some observations in
clinical practice including highly variable half lives and the
‘bi-exponential’ decay sometimes reported by patients. Some had a
‘secondary peak’ at about 10 hours from dosing. The authors report that
some had higher levels following meals and propose ‘entero-hepatic
recirculation’ in some cases. Maximum or ‘peak’ levels occurred between
30 minutes and 3 hours.

The addition of naloxone in the sublingual preparation made no
difference to blood levels. The time taken for the tablets to dissolve
were similar for all dose levels from 2 to 16mg (range 6-12 min) and
were no different for the combination product. It is worrying that the
American FDA has approved the marketing of the combination product even
before research of this nature had been established. One wonders if they
have different standards for drugs used in the treatment of addiction.

A weakness of the study was that it did not examine levels in on-going
treatment, but just individual single doses. Thus is it more relevant to
the initiation period, which is still a major problem for some patients.
There were no opioid effects using the naltrexone block at between 50
and 150mg doses prior to opioid administration.

comments by Andrew Byrne ..

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dr Andrew Byrne,
Medical Practitioner, Dependency Medicine,
75 Redfern Street, Redfern,
New South Wales, 2016, Australia
Email – ajbyrneATozemail.com.au
Tel (61 – 2) 9319 5524 Fax 9318 0631
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 8:57 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the
route
you take it

Hi Peet,

Thanks Peet, very much.  I don’t believe everything I read so I like to
get
people’s opinions or learn from their experiences.  That’s what I was
trying
to find out.  I know that you know back in the 60’s methadone was
suppose
to
be eaiser to kick than H.  There is not one person I know who believes,
that
including many docs.

I see the suboxone doc this Wed. and I will see how things go and take
it
from there.  At least now I have something to think about or ask him.
BTW,
I asked at the drugstore how much the Subutex pills are and they are $ 6
each for the 8 mg.  Thanks for your imput, it is appreciated.

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Jim Hadey >What I want to know if it is in Subutex, <

According to the flier I have in my hands right now from the company, no
it
is not in Subutex- that contains “only the medicine burprenorphine”
while
Suboxone contines both bup and naloxone. Both Subutex and Suboxone can
cause
fairly severe side effects if the flier is any indication.
And, it IS NOT GOOD TO TAKE IF YOU HAVE HEP C!!!!!
Peace,
Preston

.
—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 2:50 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the
route
you take it

Hi all,

I know the difference between Naloxone and Naltrexone, Narcan (Naloxone)
is
shorter acting and is shot up. What I want to know if you take it via
mouth
will it make you sick?

They put it i! t Talwin (Narcon or Naloxone) to stop people from
shooting
it
up. What I want to know if it is in Subutex, which it is, will it also
make you sick by taking it via mouth or under the tongue? It is not
suppose
to. But I would like to be sure. Like did bupe or Subutex cause anyone
to
go into w/d by placing it under the tongue? I probably will not use
smack
for the next few days but am taking quite a bit of Lortab.

Thanks for any help,

– JIM

Preston Peet wrote:
Naloxone is administered intravenously and lasts for approximately 20
minutes.<

This is Narcan, right, this Naloxone?

No matter what name they use it is still some bad shit for addicts!<
Other than for the fa ct it can and has saved a number of lives, I agree
in
that Narcan is not a pleasent drug to be given as an opiate addict, or
so
I’ve been lead to believe from seeing it given right in front of me- a
few
here may even be able! to give us even more first hand accounts that I
have
in the following. I’ve probably posted this before, but so what? There
are
a
few newish subscribers who may not have seen this, so I post it again,
at
risk of repeating myself and in hopes of entertaining some of you:
snip-
“What’s that, Narcan?” Thomas asks.
“That’s right,” says the paramedic. “He’s a lucky guy.” He shoots the
stuff
into Void’s upper arm. “Thirty seconds, just wait. This stuff is magic.”
Thomas doesn’t think Void is going to feel so lucky when he wakes up.
Yeah,
he’s alive, but he’d just gotten straight. Now he’s going to be really
sick.
<
end snip-
Full story:
http://www.drugwar.com/PrestonPeetIndex.shtm
Narcan-
Bringing the Dead Back to Life
chapter 20 of “Something in the Way”
copyright 2001
by Preston Peet

posted Halloween, 2002
“Why is it whenever I’m broke they’re everywhere, but when I’ve got
cash,
I
can’t find anyone?”
“Yeah wel! l, at least you’ve got money. All I got are these two lousy
videos.
Oh, hold on a second.”
Thomas watches his friend Void run over to a couple of fences standing
by
St. Marks, and 2nd Ave., and try to sell them the videotapes, to no
avail.
Thomas was exiting a building at the corner of Lafayette and Houston
Streets
after selling some freshly-stolen Shitake mushrooms as Magic mushrooms,
calling them “Colorado Gold Tops.” Some guys he’d approached on their
way
to
a club near Fourteenth St. the night before had given him a business
card
with their work number on it, telling him to call after Thomas had
mentioned
he could get really good mushrooms. As soon as he’d woken up this
morning,
he’d run to a phone and given them a call. Setting up the deal had been
little trouble. Thomas plays to his victims’ greed, offering them deals
better than any they’ll know of anywhere, yet not so much better that
the
vics get suspicious. He depends on this kind ! of scam for almost his
entire
livelihood. From ! necessity he’s gotten very good at separating people
from
their money.
Stepping out the office building’s front door, flush with the feeling of
success and a good sum of cash, Thomas’ mind was focused on going to
score.
He’d not seen Void standing there until he’d literally bumped into him.
“Hey, what’s up Void? ‘Scuse me, I’m on a mission. Didn’t see you.” Void
seemed to be just standing there. “What are you doing, spanging?”
“Oh no, I need to sell these movies.” Void held out the films, still in
their new, shrink-wrapped boxes. “I’m really sick. I need to get
straight,
bad. I’m gonna come with you, ’cause hopefully by the time you score,
I’ll
have sold these.”
Thomas hadn’t been so sure of that, and he’s still not too sure, but he
likes Void. Thomas decides that he’ll help get him straight if Void
can’t
sell the videos. If it comes to that. Thomas doesn’t say this aloud, as
there’s the c! hance Void’ll pull it off, but won’t try as hard if he
thinks
he’s already covered.
Everyone on the street has their own scam, their own game they play to
get
what they need. It’s deadly real to the people playing, never feeling
much
like a game to Thomas anymore. He just happens to make a bit more money
than
most with his particular scam, enabling him to build a bigger habit.
Void rejoins him. They continue walking down St. Marks to Tompkins Sq.,
heading through to the opposite side of the park. Unbelievably, none of
the
spots they pass are open. There’s nobody out doing any selling. Void
doesn’t
mind as he hasn’t sold the tapes yet, but Thomas is pissed. There’d been
dealers out and about not one hour before as he’d been on his way to
sell
the shrooms. Now there’s no one.
“What about 13th Street? Rush?” Void asks. “How’s that been?”
“It hasn’t been so good the last few days, garbage really.” Thomas
answers.
“I don’t know if they’re even! open yet. It’s only what, Two o’clock,
right?”
Thomas doesn’t want to walk over to 13th Street. Walking is beginning to
be
a chore. He can feel the lack of dope in him, draining his energy
reserves.
Void is even worse off, but therefore more willing to put the effort
into
going the four blocks out of the way. There’s nothing for it except to
go
along, and Thomas does, grudgingly.
They head straight up 10th St. to 1st Ave., and turn right. At 12th, one
block before they reach the spot, Void unloads the two tapes to someone
at
an incense table, making himself the ten bucks he needs for a bag.
Thomas
is
amazed. He hadn’t expected Void to do it, not after failing the entire
walk.
“Void, why don’t you go get the dope while I go around the block and
score
some coke? We’ll meet at the Polish restaurant, Christine’s, between
12th
and 13th Streets.”
“Sure, how many do you want?”
“Get me four,” Thomas says handing him forty dollars. “Hurry
up.”Normally
he
wouldn’t trust someone with his cash, having been burned a
number of times before, but he knows Void pretty well. The two of them
are
as close to being friends as people can get and still be strung out, and
besides, if Void knows he’s going to get some coke, he’ll be there. He’s
a
fiend who would rather get both.
Like his now-dead friend Dan had been once, Void is another rare find.
The coke store Thomas goes to is on 12th St., just across Ave. A. It
only
takes him 5 minutes to get there, conduct his business, and get back to
Christine’s. He arrives almost the same moment as Void, and they walk in
together.
Neither of them look too respectable. The restaurant staff eye them both
with suspicion and just a bit of revulsion, but no one stops them from
taking a seat at a table in the dining area.
“Let me go first, man,” Void says as soon as they are seated. “I’m
really
sick. I’m going to throw up right here if I don’t do a shot soon.! ”
It’s not a lot different for Thomas, who can feel his stomach clenching
and
bubbling in anticipation. But he knows Void is in far worse shape so
agrees
to wait at the table for Void to go to the toilet first. One of them has
to
wait with all their bags while the other gets straight.
“Yeah, all right already, just go.”
“The guy said this is a new batch, that it’s very good, and strong,”
Void
says under his breath.
“Yeah, they always say that it’s the best. You know that. It’d be nice
though if it’s better than what they’ve had recently, that’s for sure.”
Thomas isn’t too hopeful. As long as it gets him straight, he doesn’t
much
care. “Hurry up. Don’t take forever, ’cause I want to go too.”
“Can I have some coke for my shot?” Void asks, still not moving.
“Hell no. I’ll give you some later, but if you do it now, I’ll be out
here
an hour waiting for you. Fuck that.” There’s no anger in his voice, it’s
just that Thomas knows how it is on coke sometimes. “I promise, I’ll
give
you some a little later. Now go, hurry up.”
Void goes to the bathroom, leaving Thomas at the table. A waitress comes
over right after Void walks away, so to keep the place happy, and to
feed
the both of them a little something, Thomas orders two soups and
coffees.
By
the time Void comes back to the table, Thomas is almost finished with
his
soup and very impatient.
“About fucking time, Void.” Thomas snarls as Void tries to pull out a
chair.
He misjudges the distance, pulls it too far, then sits in such a way as
to
send both it and himself crashing to the floor.
Thomas can’t help it, and laughs out loud. Still chuckling, he bends
down
and gives Void a hand up. As he lifts, he notices Void is not responding
well, that his eyes are way fucked up, glassy and very pinned.
“Hey, you’re not going to nod here at the table and get us thrown out,
are
you?” He watches Void struggling to keep his eyes open. “You ok?”
“Oh, come on man, you know me, I’m good. Go ahead.” Void slurs out as he
picks up his coffee, sloshing a third of it onto the table.
Thomas can’t wait any longer. He has to trust that Void will be OK, and
goes
to take his turn. The toilet stalls are well used by regular customers
of
the dope spot around the corner. Thomas is frequently one of those. He
knows
the restaurant well, knows he should have time to relax and go slow
without
having a manager in too quickly. He gets out his stuff and mixes up a
shot
in short order. Right as he has the vein, just about to boot, there
comes
a
firm knock on the door of the stall, then an older man’s heavily
accented
voice.
“Hey! That your friend at the table? He dead! We call Police, they
coming
now. You hurry!”
Thomas pushes in the shot before he realizes what the old guy said. Then
as
the drugs take hold the old guy’s words sink in, giving Thomas the
simultaneous rush of the incredibly! strong drugs and the disbelief and
shock
at what’s just been said to him through the closed toilet stall door.
The
coke rush barely tops the dope. The dealer was telling Void the truth,
because the dope feels stronger than any he’s yet found in NYC. Fast as
he
can in the shape he’s in, he puts everything away and cleans himself up.
He
wants to be out of the toilet before the cops arrive, not wanting any
more
attention than he’s already going to have with a dead, overdosed friend
on
the floor. That’s already more than he wants.
He gets to the table as quickly as he can. Sure enough, Void is on the
floor, half under the table, not moving. Thomas crouches down and shakes
him. “Wake the hell up man, the cops are coming.” This has absolutely no
effect, so he tries smacking him on the cheeks, one after the other.
Again
there’s nothing. Void’s tattooed face and lips are by now turning a
weirder
shade of blue, and Thomas can’t find any sign of breath! ing or a pulse.
He
pushes the table back, pulls Void’s body so he’s lying stretched out on
his
back, and considers giving him mouth to mouth resuscitation or even CPR.
Luckily he doesn’t have to as he’s abruptly pushed aside by two eager
paramedics, all bustle and business.
“Overdose,” says the one who pushed Thomas. “What’d he take?”
“He told me he was sick, and was going to score a bag. I think he only
did
one. That’s all the money he had, ten bucks.” Thomas is thinking that
when
the coke he himself shot in that speedball wears off, he’s also going to
be
very stoned, and doesn’t want to be dealing with the police. They’d
arrived
with the paramedics, and now they start to question him.
“Where’d he get it? You got any yourself, kid?” One bored cop asks.
“I don’t know where he got it, and no, I don’t.” Thomas sees no need for
complete honesty here.
Down on the floor the paramedics aren’t having any more luck than had
Thomas
in getting Void! to respond. One of them reaches into the box of medical
supplies he’d brought in, and starts rummaging around.
“His girlfriend lives right across the street. I’m going to run see if
she’s
there, because I’m not going to the hospital with him. She should know
anyway.” The cops agree it’s a good idea, so Thomas runs to her
apartment.
Finding her home, he quickly convinces her to come with him, explaining
along the way what’s going on.
By the time they get back to the restaurant, the paramedic is holding a
loaded hypodermic in his hand, preparing to administer it to Void.
“What’s that, Narcan?” Thomas asks.
“That’s right,” says the paramedic. “He’s a lucky guy.” He shoots the
stuff
into Void’s upper arm. “Thirty seconds, just wait. This stuff is magic.”
Thomas doesn’t think Void is going to feel so lucky when he wakes up.
Yeah,
he’s alive, but he’d just gotten straight. Now he’s going to be really
sick.
Narcan completely clears the system! of any vestige of the drug and it’s
effects, at least temporarily, leaving the patient agonizingly ill.
After exactly thirty seconds, Void’s eyes shoot open. The first words
out
of
his mouth are, “I’m all right, I’m all right.” He’s not even aware he’s
been
dead, at least not immediately, but confusion is evident on his face.
It’s
obvious something is wrong. He looks up at the paramedics and cops. “Oh
shit.”
“Just lie there for a minute, kid. Relax.” One of the paramedics tells
Void,
who’s struggling to get to his feet. “Give it a minute, you just had a
close
call.”
“So now what?” Thomas interrupts one of the cops, who’s making
disparaging
remarks about junkies and losers to his partner. “Is he going to be OK?”
“Yeah, he’ll be fine. They’ve got to take him in to the hospital ’cause
they
gave him a shot. It’s the law. They work on you, you ride with them.”
The
cop doesn’t look at Thomas, so Thomas doesn’t say anything else.
Void is helpe! d out of the door by the paramedics. Void’s girlfriend
goes
with him. Thomas can hear her soothing Void, giving comfort, and almost
feel
s a pang of jealousy. He can’t imagine his girlfiend acting thus for
him.
The cops are speaking with the restaurant staff, writing in their little
black books and ignoring him, so Thomas decides it’s definitely time for
him
to go.
No one pays him any mind as he picks up his bag and coat, and walks out
the
front door onto 1st Ave.
“Damn I’m glad I’m not Void right now,” he thinks, watching the
ambulance
drive away. Narcan does not look like a fun experience. If Void had been
in
a park somewhere, he wouldn’t have had to go through that. Most probably
he
would have simply slept through the dope, then woken up tomorrow sick,
ready
to start again. Which is of course exactly what’s going to happen.
Thomas
knows he’ll bump into Void again soon, sick as hell out looking for
drugs.
This close call won’t change a thi! ng.
It doesn’t occur to Thomas how close he himself came to lying on the
floor
being treated by the paramedics.
Thomas shakes his head, then heads to Tompkins Square to do some more of
his
own stuff, stopping along the way to tell another couple of fiends he
knows
that “Rush is damned good today.”

Tompkins Sq. Park
Peace all,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 11:22 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route
you
take it

Jim, I did some research and my findings are as follows…
What is the difference between naltrexone and naloxone?
Functionally, they are the same type of drug. They compete with heroin
at
the receptor level and block the effect of heroin. Naloxone is
administered
intravenously and lasts for approximately 20 minutes. Naltrexone is
administered orally (pill form) and can last for 1 to 2 days.
No matter what name they use it is still some bad shit for addicts!
They are now using Naltrexone in alcoholism treatment!
Callie

ATTACHMENT part 2 image/jpeg name=shooter2.jpg

ATTACHMENT part 3 image/jpeg name=tompkinstable2.JPG

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From: trtye <trtye@gci.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route you take it
Date: July 25, 2004 at 7:03:26 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>>>
—– Original Message —–
From: Hannah Clay
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2004 2:21 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route you take it
am confused now though-I thought Suboxone contained Naltrexone not Naloxone but I’m always getting it confused!

Hannah:
I’m looking at the pharmacy handout that comes with each prescription. Suboxone contains Naloxone.
My doctor assured me over and over that the only way I’d get really sick would be from shooting it. If I wanted Subutex (100% buprenorphine) I’d have to go to his office daily to take it in front of them. He gave me a two week prescription to the Suboxone and also told me after this first script, about a place in Florida that you can order large(r) supplies at a greatly reduced price.

>>>It is a human rights issue really-if you’ve never hit-up drugs before then why should you be forced to take a drug that contains soemthing that is not necessary to you?

I haven’t mainlined drugs in over 20 years (well, regularly) but still have some track marks. I’ve sure never met a Doctor,  who knew for a fact that I was an addict, who’s just going to take my word that I was not going to misuse the drugs he/she was prescribing me, have you? (“How do you know when a junkie’s lying…..”)

>>>He says I can’t trust what people tell me and I become a self-righteous wanker thinking I know better than Doctors etc.  But lots of Docs don’t seem to know much about Sub.

I totally agree with you on that. What, they become experts with an 8 hour course? Right. You just have to kind of act like you believe that he /she knows best and then (if you don’t already know) do your own research.

Cheers, Terrell

From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route you take it
Date: July 25, 2004 at 7:04:53 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’ve heard of loadsa Doctors who don’t know what they’re talking about when
it comes to Sub!  My Doc here in the UK still maintains that its not
addictive even though I’ve heard many personal accounts that beg to differ.
It seems you will feel pretty shitty when you step off for a good
month-mainly tiredness and depression.  Check out the ‘Opiate Detox Forum’
(can’t remember exact address so google it alone with the word ‘Loop’ (my
tag) and it should find it) for loadsa info on Sub WD although I think they
make too much of a big deal about it there n scare people.  I haven’t had to
come off mine yet so I don’t know.  I started on 12mg a day and have found
it pretty easy to get down to 4mg.
(Tapering is easily done though-just grind your 8mg up and divide it into
however many piles you need.)

Doctors also don’t realise that high doses are not necessary with Sub-like
in excess of 16mg.  Too much Sub will give you nausea and headaches n
ignorant Dr’s will just tell you to take more but that’s actually making it
WORSE!  Even doses of 8mg have made a few people feel rough coz they only
had little habits.  You hear of people with huge scripts wondering why
they’re feeling rough!  It doesn’t work like normal drugs-more=better
effect.

I did find that when I’m on less than 8mg I still feel H if I shoot up so if
you need that blocking effect bear this in mind.  Sub is still better than
shooting up H any day (or so I strictly tell myself ;-))

Oh and Jim-be prepared for the gross taste-I hate it!  It is ok to have a
drink straight after coz I do to get rid of the taste.  Or a sweet to suck.
In fact when it dissolves you’re left with all this gross ‘residue’ in your
mouth and it seems to be ok to spit this out.  The active meds will have
dissolved under your tongue-don’t worry.  Some people say it the goo makes
them feel nauseous if they swallow it and swear by spitting it out.
Personally, I just swallow the stuff n I’m ok!

Hope something helps.  Even if it just raises some questions you’d like to
ask your Doc!
lol Hannah

Lol Hannah

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 2:32 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route
you take it

Just to let you know Jim, (see bottom of this note for more info on Bup),
My name is Preston Peet, first name being Preston. While I might
answer
to Peet, it’s not what I call myself, so you don’t have to be formal and
use
my last name- unless you put a big Mr. in front of it. Then I might think
yer talking to my dad though, so Preston will work just fine. Thank you.
;-)))
Yer right too that methadone, from my own personal experienc, is much
nastier to kick.
The pain doc I see shares office space with another pain doc, who 5
years ago, almost 6 now, first saw me for pain upon recommendation of my
regular doc. I being the honest addict I am, and not wanting to be given
any
drug that might counterdict the methadone, told him I was then on
methadone.
He wound up giving me three injections, one every other week, directly
into
my spine with valium being the only drug given to relax me prior to
injecting me, and a topical (it felt like) shot to numb the skin above my
spine (but not my spine itself- as was obvious when the needle went in-
Ouch!). These injections did nothing for the relentless pain, but after 3,
the max he was willing to give me with no visible results, he told me
there
wasn’t anything else he could do for me, that I should “eat better and
gain
weight” as that would help build muscle and in turn that’d help me support
my spine better. He was completely unwilling to prescribe anything for the
pain, the reason I initially went to see him.
So I spent the next nearly 6 years not going to see them at the pain
clinic but going to see my own doc instead. But last year it was getting
really ridiculous, in that I was going through my pain meds way too fast
and
they still weren’t helping enough. My doc kept saying, “you’ve got to go
to
the specialist because the DEA will flag me if I up your dose any higher.”
So I did, after running out of my month’s supply in less than 2 weeks.
Luckily for me, when I went in I happened to see the other doc, the one
I’ve
now been seeing for a little over a year, who treated my pain seriously
and
gave me what I needed and pays close attention to me and my complaints.
But a few months ago, I went in a couple days early when my own pain
doc
wasn’t in, and saw one of the intern types, who after writing out my
script
for the one drug realized that the coupons I’d been getting for Avinza
weren’t being accepted any longer, said, “let me get Dr. Thomas, and maybe
he’ll be able to suggest something else.” Right after she walked out I
though, “oh shit, he’s the one who didn’t help me last time.”
Sure enough, the first thing this bozo did when walking in was tell me
he would have treated me in different fashion than my own pain doc was,
then
asked me, “are you selling your pills? No offense but are you?”
Understanding the question but still offended due to the silliness of
my
selling any of my much needed and still not quite enough drugs, I said no.
He then said he was going to have to talk to my doc and see about
putting me on something else, as he reached into the shelf being him to
pull
out the previously mentioned flier for bup.
I had already told this guy I had Hep C. but he was a bozo and pain no
attention to what I told him.
(He also took back the script the intern had already written and wrote
one for just 6 days rather than the 3 weeks I usually got, forcing me to
come back in less than a week and pay another $80 bucks for a simply
office
visit- that doesn’t even begin to cover the cost of scripts.)
So after I left and got home I pulled out the flier for bup/naloxone, and
read it.
The first thing it says it that Bup is a narcotic and can be diverted
to
street sales, which puzzled the shit outta me as that was his biggest
concern supposedly- why would he change my script due to a stated fear I
could be selling my drugs to another script I could sell just as easily?
Then I read the whole page where it says that Bup does holy hell to a
liver and that if on Bup we should pay attention to all sorts of symptoms
that show it’s causing yet more damage to a damaged liver.
Why the hell would he feel the need to take me off a drug that I know
is
helping me to put me on another that the only selling point to is that it
is
a drug to help withdrawals while treatig pain too? Seems a bit odd to me
that he is pushing a drug that is just as addictive and a LOT worse for my
body. Are doctors, or this doctor anyway, so frightened by DrugWar
propaganda and scare tactics that he/they really feel that Bup is “better”
than a more natural, less toxic on the liver opiate based medication?
Yes, it seem so if my own experiences are any indication.
Anyway, Bup doesn’t seem all that safe either nor well tested, as Dr.
Andrew Byrne in Australia pointed out recently:

It is worrying that the
American FDA has approved the marketing of the combination product (bup
and
naltrexone, and naloxone) even
before research of this nature had been established. One wonders if they
have different standards for drugs used in the treatment of addiction.<

This is clipped from the comments about Bup you can find just below here.
So I hope this give syou some more idea of Bup and the mentality
pushing
this stuff. I think it goes hand in hand with the same mentality that
pushed
methadone as opposed to simply PRESCRIBING HEROIN, a much less toxic, more
effective, all around better drug.
But then, that would not only be more humane, it would make sense, and
we can’t have that now can we? I mean, we are waging a war on some drugs
and
users, right? Soooo.
Peace,
Preston

Pharmacokinetics of high-dose buprenorphine following single
administration of sublingual tablet formulations in opioid naïve healthy
male volunteers under a naltrexone block. McAleer SD, Mills RJ, Polack
T, Hussain T, Rolan PE, Gibbs AD, Mullins FGP, Hussein Z. Drug Alc
Depend (2003) 72; 1:75-83

Dear Colleagues,
At last we have some real data on buprenorphine half lives, absorption
and effects from healthy volunteer studies. These researchers, who were
working for the manufacturers, have taken 35 healthy males and given
substantial doses of buprenorphine after 50 -150mg naltrexone ‘block’.
They then measured clinical and blood parameters at regular intervals
for up to 3 days in an in-patient setting. Techniques for measuring
blood levels of buprenorphine are still being developed and are not
generally available in clinical practice. This makes patient history and
clinical observation even more important than otherwise. A liquid
chromatographic tandem mass spectrometric (LC-MS/MS) assay was developed
by these researchers and it was validated for the measurement of
buprenorphine and nor-buprenorphine, its metabolite, in blood.

Mean half life was found to be 26 hours with a wide range from 9 to 69.
Interestingly, these authors have confirmed some observations in
clinical practice including highly variable half lives and the
‘bi-exponential’ decay sometimes reported by patients. Some had a
‘secondary peak’ at about 10 hours from dosing. The authors report that
some had higher levels following meals and propose ‘entero-hepatic
recirculation’ in some cases. Maximum or ‘peak’ levels occurred between
30 minutes and 3 hours.

The addition of naloxone in the sublingual preparation made no
difference to blood levels. The time taken for the tablets to dissolve
were similar for all dose levels from 2 to 16mg (range 6-12 min) and
were no different for the combination product. It is worrying that the
American FDA has approved the marketing of the combination product even
before research of this nature had been established. One wonders if they
have different standards for drugs used in the treatment of addiction.

A weakness of the study was that it did not examine levels in on-going
treatment, but just individual single doses. Thus is it more relevant to
the initiation period, which is still a major problem for some patients.
There were no opioid effects using the naltrexone block at between 50
and 150mg doses prior to opioid administration.

comments by Andrew Byrne ..

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dr Andrew Byrne,
Medical Practitioner, Dependency Medicine,
75 Redfern Street, Redfern,
New South Wales, 2016, Australia
Email – ajbyrneATozemail.com.au
Tel (61 – 2) 9319 5524 Fax 9318 0631
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 8:57 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route
you take it

Hi Peet,

Thanks Peet, very much.  I don’t believe everything I read so I like to
get
people’s opinions or learn from their experiences.  That’s what I was
trying
to find out.  I know that you know back in the 60’s methadone was suppose
to
be eaiser to kick than H.  There is not one person I know who believes,
that
including many docs.

I see the suboxone doc this Wed. and I will see how things go and take it
from there.  At least now I have something to think about or ask him.
BTW,
I asked at the drugstore how much the Subutex pills are and they are $ 6
each for the 8 mg.  Thanks for your imput, it is appreciated.

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Jim Hadey >What I want to know if it is in Subutex, <

According to the flier I have in my hands right now from the company, no
it
is not in Subutex- that contains “only the medicine burprenorphine” while
Suboxone contines both bup and naloxone. Both Subutex and Suboxone can
cause
fairly severe side effects if the flier is any indication.
And, it IS NOT GOOD TO TAKE IF YOU HAVE HEP C!!!!!
Peace,
Preston

.
—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 2:50 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route
you take it

Hi all,

I know the difference between Naloxone and Naltrexone, Narcan (Naloxone)
is
shorter acting and is shot up. What I want to know if you take it via
mouth
will it make you sick?

They put it i! t Talwin (Narcon or Naloxone) to stop people from shooting
it
up. What I want to know if it is in Subutex, which it is, will it also
make you sick by taking it via mouth or under the tongue? It is not
suppose
to. But I would like to be sure. Like did bupe or Subutex cause anyone to
go into w/d by placing it under the tongue? I probably will not use smack
for the next few days but am taking quite a bit of Lortab.

Thanks for any help,

– JIM

Preston Peet wrote:
Naloxone is administered intravenously and lasts for approximately 20
minutes.<

This is Narcan, right, this Naloxone?

No matter what name they use it is still some bad shit for addicts!<
Other than for the fa ct it can and has saved a number of lives, I agree
in
that Narcan is not a pleasent drug to be given as an opiate addict, or so
I’ve been lead to believe from seeing it given right in front of me- a few
here may even be able! to give us even more first hand accounts that I
have
in the following. I’ve probably posted this before, but so what? There are
a
few newish subscribers who may not have seen this, so I post it again, at
risk of repeating myself and in hopes of entertaining some of you:
snip-
“What’s that, Narcan?” Thomas asks.
“That’s right,” says the paramedic. “He’s a lucky guy.” He shoots the
stuff
into Void’s upper arm. “Thirty seconds, just wait. This stuff is magic.”
Thomas doesn’t think Void is going to feel so lucky when he wakes up.
Yeah,
he’s alive, but he’d just gotten straight. Now he’s going to be really
sick.
<
end snip-
Full story:
http://www.drugwar.com/PrestonPeetIndex.shtm
Narcan-
Bringing the Dead Back to Life
chapter 20 of “Something in the Way”
copyright 2001
by Preston Peet

posted Halloween, 2002
“Why is it whenever I’m broke they’re everywhere, but when I’ve got cash,
I
can’t find anyone?”
“Yeah wel! l, at least you’ve got money. All I got are these two lousy
videos.
Oh, hold on a second.”
Thomas watches his friend Void run over to a couple of fences standing by
St. Marks, and 2nd Ave., and try to sell them the videotapes, to no avail.
Thomas was exiting a building at the corner of Lafayette and Houston
Streets
after selling some freshly-stolen Shitake mushrooms as Magic mushrooms,
calling them “Colorado Gold Tops.” Some guys he’d approached on their way
to
a club near Fourteenth St. the night before had given him a business card
with their work number on it, telling him to call after Thomas had
mentioned
he could get really good mushrooms. As soon as he’d woken up this morning,
he’d run to a phone and given them a call. Setting up the deal had been
little trouble. Thomas plays to his victims’ greed, offering them deals
better than any they’ll know of anywhere, yet not so much better that the
vics get suspicious. He depends on this kind ! of scam for almost his
entire
livelihood. From ! necessity he’s gotten very good at separating people
from
their money.
Stepping out the office building’s front door, flush with the feeling of
success and a good sum of cash, Thomas’ mind was focused on going to
score.
He’d not seen Void standing there until he’d literally bumped into him.
“Hey, what’s up Void? ‘Scuse me, I’m on a mission. Didn’t see you.” Void
seemed to be just standing there. “What are you doing, spanging?”
“Oh no, I need to sell these movies.” Void held out the films, still in
their new, shrink-wrapped boxes. “I’m really sick. I need to get straight,
bad. I’m gonna come with you, ’cause hopefully by the time you score, I’ll
have sold these.”
Thomas hadn’t been so sure of that, and he’s still not too sure, but he
likes Void. Thomas decides that he’ll help get him straight if Void can’t
sell the videos. If it comes to that. Thomas doesn’t say this aloud, as
there’s the c! hance Void’ll pull it off, but won’t try as hard if he
thinks
he’s already covered.
Everyone on the street has their own scam, their own game they play to get
what they need. It’s deadly real to the people playing, never feeling much
like a game to Thomas anymore. He just happens to make a bit more money
than
most with his particular scam, enabling him to build a bigger habit.
Void rejoins him. They continue walking down St. Marks to Tompkins Sq.,
heading through to the opposite side of the park. Unbelievably, none of
the
spots they pass are open. There’s nobody out doing any selling. Void
doesn’t
mind as he hasn’t sold the tapes yet, but Thomas is pissed. There’d been
dealers out and about not one hour before as he’d been on his way to sell
the shrooms. Now there’s no one.
“What about 13th Street? Rush?” Void asks. “How’s that been?”
“It hasn’t been so good the last few days, garbage really.” Thomas
answers.
“I don’t know if they’re even! open yet. It’s only what, Two o’clock,
right?”
Thomas doesn’t want to walk over to 13th Street. Walking is beginning to
be
a chore. He can feel the lack of dope in him, draining his energy
reserves.
Void is even worse off, but therefore more willing to put the effort into
going the four blocks out of the way. There’s nothing for it except to go
along, and Thomas does, grudgingly.
They head straight up 10th St. to 1st Ave., and turn right. At 12th, one
block before they reach the spot, Void unloads the two tapes to someone at
an incense table, making himself the ten bucks he needs for a bag. Thomas
is
amazed. He hadn’t expected Void to do it, not after failing the entire
walk.
“Void, why don’t you go get the dope while I go around the block and score
some coke? We’ll meet at the Polish restaurant, Christine’s, between 12th
and 13th Streets.”
“Sure, how many do you want?”
“Get me four,” Thomas says handing him forty dollars. “Hurry up.”Normally
he
wouldn’t trust someone with his cash, having been burned a
number of times before, but he knows Void pretty well. The two of them are
as close to being friends as people can get and still be strung out, and
besides, if Void knows he’s going to get some coke, he’ll be there. He’s a
fiend who would rather get both.
Like his now-dead friend Dan had been once, Void is another rare find.
The coke store Thomas goes to is on 12th St., just across Ave. A. It only
takes him 5 minutes to get there, conduct his business, and get back to
Christine’s. He arrives almost the same moment as Void, and they walk in
together.
Neither of them look too respectable. The restaurant staff eye them both
with suspicion and just a bit of revulsion, but no one stops them from
taking a seat at a table in the dining area.
“Let me go first, man,” Void says as soon as they are seated. “I’m really
sick. I’m going to throw up right here if I don’t do a shot soon.! ”
It’s not a lot different for Thomas, who can feel his stomach clenching
and
bubbling in anticipation. But he knows Void is in far worse shape so
agrees
to wait at the table for Void to go to the toilet first. One of them has
to
wait with all their bags while the other gets straight.
“Yeah, all right already, just go.”
“The guy said this is a new batch, that it’s very good, and strong,” Void
says under his breath.
“Yeah, they always say that it’s the best. You know that. It’d be nice
though if it’s better than what they’ve had recently, that’s for sure.”
Thomas isn’t too hopeful. As long as it gets him straight, he doesn’t much
care. “Hurry up. Don’t take forever, ’cause I want to go too.”
“Can I have some coke for my shot?” Void asks, still not moving.
“Hell no. I’ll give you some later, but if you do it now, I’ll be out here
an hour waiting for you. Fuck that.” There’s no anger in his voice, it’s
just that Thomas knows how it is on coke sometimes. “I promise, I’ll give
you some a little later. Now go, hurry up.”
Void goes to the bathroom, leaving Thomas at the table. A waitress comes
over right after Void walks away, so to keep the place happy, and to feed
the both of them a little something, Thomas orders two soups and coffees.
By
the time Void comes back to the table, Thomas is almost finished with his
soup and very impatient.
“About fucking time, Void.” Thomas snarls as Void tries to pull out a
chair.
He misjudges the distance, pulls it too far, then sits in such a way as to
send both it and himself crashing to the floor.
Thomas can’t help it, and laughs out loud. Still chuckling, he bends down
and gives Void a hand up. As he lifts, he notices Void is not responding
well, that his eyes are way fucked up, glassy and very pinned.
“Hey, you’re not going to nod here at the table and get us thrown out, are
you?” He watches Void struggling to keep his eyes open. “You ok?”
“Oh, come on man, you know me, I’m good. Go ahead.” Void slurs out as he
picks up his coffee, sloshing a third of it onto the table.
Thomas can’t wait any longer. He has to trust that Void will be OK, and
goes
to take his turn. The toilet stalls are well used by regular customers of
the dope spot around the corner. Thomas is frequently one of those. He
knows
the restaurant well, knows he should have time to relax and go slow
without
having a manager in too quickly. He gets out his stuff and mixes up a shot
in short order. Right as he has the vein, just about to boot, there comes
a
firm knock on the door of the stall, then an older man’s heavily accented
voice.
“Hey! That your friend at the table? He dead! We call Police, they coming
now. You hurry!”
Thomas pushes in the shot before he realizes what the old guy said. Then
as
the drugs take hold the old guy’s words sink in, giving Thomas the
simultaneous rush of the incredibly! strong drugs and the disbelief and
shock
at what’s just been said to him through the closed toilet stall door. The
coke rush barely tops the dope. The dealer was telling Void the truth,
because the dope feels stronger than any he’s yet found in NYC. Fast as he
can in the shape he’s in, he puts everything away and cleans himself up.
He
wants to be out of the toilet before the cops arrive, not wanting any more
attention than he’s already going to have with a dead, overdosed friend on
the floor. That’s already more than he wants.
He gets to the table as quickly as he can. Sure enough, Void is on the
floor, half under the table, not moving. Thomas crouches down and shakes
him. “Wake the hell up man, the cops are coming.” This has absolutely no
effect, so he tries smacking him on the cheeks, one after the other. Again
there’s nothing. Void’s tattooed face and lips are by now turning a
weirder
shade of blue, and Thomas can’t find any sign of breath! ing or a pulse.
He
pushes the table back, pulls Void’s body so he’s lying stretched out on
his
back, and considers giving him mouth to mouth resuscitation or even CPR.
Luckily he doesn’t have to as he’s abruptly pushed aside by two eager
paramedics, all bustle and business.
“Overdose,” says the one who pushed Thomas. “What’d he take?”
“He told me he was sick, and was going to score a bag. I think he only did
one. That’s all the money he had, ten bucks.” Thomas is thinking that when
the coke he himself shot in that speedball wears off, he’s also going to
be
very stoned, and doesn’t want to be dealing with the police. They’d
arrived
with the paramedics, and now they start to question him.
“Where’d he get it? You got any yourself, kid?” One bored cop asks.
“I don’t know where he got it, and no, I don’t.” Thomas sees no need for
complete honesty here.
Down on the floor the paramedics aren’t having any more luck than had
Thomas
in getting Void! to respond. One of them reaches into the box of medical
supplies he’d brought in, and starts rummaging around.
“His girlfriend lives right across the street. I’m going to run see if
she’s
there, because I’m not going to the hospital with him. She should know
anyway.” The cops agree it’s a good idea, so Thomas runs to her apartment.
Finding her home, he quickly convinces her to come with him, explaining
along the way what’s going on.
By the time they get back to the restaurant, the paramedic is holding a
loaded hypodermic in his hand, preparing to administer it to Void.
“What’s that, Narcan?” Thomas asks.
“That’s right,” says the paramedic. “He’s a lucky guy.” He shoots the
stuff
into Void’s upper arm. “Thirty seconds, just wait. This stuff is magic.”
Thomas doesn’t think Void is going to feel so lucky when he wakes up.
Yeah,
he’s alive, but he’d just gotten straight. Now he’s going to be really
sick.
Narcan completely clears the system! of any vestige of the drug and it’s
effects, at least temporarily, leaving the patient agonizingly ill.
After exactly thirty seconds, Void’s eyes shoot open. The first words out
of
his mouth are, “I’m all right, I’m all right.” He’s not even aware he’s
been
dead, at least not immediately, but confusion is evident on his face. It’s
obvious something is wrong. He looks up at the paramedics and cops. “Oh
shit.”
“Just lie there for a minute, kid. Relax.” One of the paramedics tells
Void,
who’s struggling to get to his feet. “Give it a minute, you just had a
close
call.”
“So now what?” Thomas interrupts one of the cops, who’s making disparaging
remarks about junkies and losers to his partner. “Is he going to be OK?”
“Yeah, he’ll be fine. They’ve got to take him in to the hospital ’cause
they
gave him a shot. It’s the law. They work on you, you ride with them.” The
cop doesn’t look at Thomas, so Thomas doesn’t say anything else.
Void is helpe! d out of the door by the paramedics. Void’s girlfriend goes
with him. Thomas can hear her soothing Void, giving comfort, and almost
feel
s a pang of jealousy. He can’t imagine his girlfiend acting thus for him.
The cops are speaking with the restaurant staff, writing in their little
black books and ignoring him, so Thomas decides it’s definitely time for
him
to go.
No one pays him any mind as he picks up his bag and coat, and walks out
the
front door onto 1st Ave.
“Damn I’m glad I’m not Void right now,” he thinks, watching the ambulance
drive away. Narcan does not look like a fun experience. If Void had been
in
a park somewhere, he wouldn’t have had to go through that. Most probably
he
would have simply slept through the dope, then woken up tomorrow sick,
ready
to start again. Which is of course exactly what’s going to happen. Thomas
knows he’ll bump into Void again soon, sick as hell out looking for drugs.
This close call won’t change a thi! ng.
It doesn’t occur to Thomas how close he himself came to lying on the floor
being treated by the paramedics.
Thomas shakes his head, then heads to Tompkins Square to do some more of
his
own stuff, stopping along the way to tell another couple of fiends he
knows
that “Rush is damned good today.”

Tompkins Sq. Park
Peace all,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 11:22 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route you
take it

Jim, I did some research and my findings are as follows…
What is the difference between naltrexone and naloxone?
Functionally, they are the same type of drug. They compete with heroin at
the receptor level and block the effect of heroin. Naloxone is
administered
intravenously and lasts for approximately 20 minutes. Naltrexone is
administered orally (pill form) and can last for 1 to 2 days.
No matter what name they use it is still some bad shit for addicts!
They are now using Naltrexone in alcoholism treatment!
Callie

ATTACHMENT part 2 image/jpeg name=shooter2.jpg

ATTACHMENT part 3 image/jpeg name=tompkinstable2.JPG

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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]DH
Date: July 25, 2004 at 6:51:56 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hi Hannah,

I needed your post this am

Sean

From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran
Date: July 25, 2004 at 6:40:37 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I assume you’re talikgn about cocaine ‘bugs’?  I never did know what people
were talking about when they said that!  Now I’m glad I didn’t ever find
out,lol!

Mark-I think we’ll all be thinking of you and sending positive lurve vibes
your way,lol!
Hannah
—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 12:41 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran

“your so brave”
LOL.
Seriously brave guy, I am excited for you.
I for one am glad you surviced that cocaine incident- god damn but I
remember that feeling of fear so well, that absolute terror telling
someone,
“hey, go get help, I’m going to die,” and watching them not move, not get
up, not do anything at all but sit there as the huge bugs began crawling
around my face and body, so big I could feel them crunching in my fingers
as
I yanked them from my face but couldn’t hear the pop as the strobe light
was
too loud in my ears and I couldn’t see the damn things
because…well…they
weren’t really there.
Those were the days, eh?
Peace and love to you Mark.
Preston (make sure to fill us in upon your return. DON’T leave those of us
still waiting in the lurch, PLEASE.)

—– Original Message —–
From: mcorcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 6:32 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran

I had this dream last night that my plane was hijacked and I was trying to
sneak in the bathroom to drink my bottles, sick huh? Maybe no more 9-11
report before my Ibo treatment. Oh my God, I’m leavin the day after
tomorrow. I dropped to 80 today. i guess for no other reason than kickin
an
80 sounds a lot more doable than a 90 or 100 or 110.
Hey not bad for 4 weeks. But I’m not feelin all that great i have to tell
you. But not terrible either. Excited as hell one minute scared to death
the
next. But I guess thats normal. If one more person says “your so brave” I
think I’ll puke. I mean I appreciate th sentiment, I really do.  but I
don’t
want this to be a thing where I need to be “soo brave” I want this to be a
little easier than everyone seems to think. Not you guys of course. :o)
Well
not all of you anyway. I’m feeling empowered these last few days. i guess
looking at the prospect of being free makes me realize that  a lot of the
things that I do in my life that I’m not happy with I put up with because
in
one way or another because if I didn’t it would make my use that much more
difficult. Hate my job, but there is not much chance that I could make
this
kinda money doing something I like, and I need this money for my expensive
program, and my frivolous spending due to drugs and alcohol. My Apartment,
its a nice place but I wouldn’t be breaking my neck trying to pay this
ridiculous rent if it wasn’t so convenient to my program and my drinking
haunts. Oh and Harlem being 15 blocks away has been a plus as well. Ya
know,
shit like that. So the idea that I no longer need to live with that fear
that if it all came crumbling down (which it feels like its going to at
any
minute)  I’d be totally screwed, is really comforting. I walked out of the
office this afternoon and thought to myself that its more likely than not
that I will never step foot in that place again, and instead of that fear
I
usually feel when I think I might lose my job and wont have money coming
in,
it was a feeling of  complete relief. It was like “Thank God I’m finally
closing the door on this miserable part of my life”. I couldn’t stop
smiling
all the way home.
Then on the subway I see this guy that I used to run with (Preston you’d
know him) and he looked like death warmed over. “Just came home from doin
90
days on the Island and lookin for dope and coke and headin uptown”. I
told
him about the Ibogaine and he didn’t seem to have much thoughts one way or
another. He said that it seemed like I was doing well to begin with then
he
began to  talk about how fucked up used to be and “do you remember the
time
you had that coke OD seize running out of that restaurant on 5th St, cuz
the
guy caught you in the bathroom fixing?” I acted like I didn’t know what he
was talkin about  but I remember obviously and instead of responding
further
I kept asking him to keep his voice down. Actually I remembered it like it
was yesterday after he mentioned it, just slamming the whole 20 because I
was already so freaked out that he had burst in on me… and my legs are
giving out and my arms are starting to go and I know its coming… I
turned
around and said “please sir, I’m gonna die” He said something like” yeah
you
are gonna die” but before he had a chance I collapsed and bounced around
like a fish out of water. God its crazy because I haven’t been that kinda
cracked out. Now 8 or 9 years later I’m an undercover junkie. But even
though I’m about the furthest thing from that kid I was now but I’m more
miserable than I’ve ever been.
Anyway I got off at my stop and he continued uptown but as a got off the
train immediately I felt better and it felt like I was supposed to see
him.
I mean this is a kid I used to run with every day that I haven’t seen in 7
or 8 years. Been thinking so much about my past and all the people who are
dead and gone and how things have changed so much in less than 10 years.
Sorry for that ramble. I’m just so all over the place. But I’m doing good.
Gonna go watch the news.
Thanks for everything and tonight I will respond to all.

D H <dave@phantom.com> wrote:

On Thursday, July 22, 2004, at 09:33 PM, Hannah Clay wrote:

Nice words DH, made me cry!  What if you suddenly realise there ain’t
no music in your head no more?  And you can’t even be sure what tune
it used to be?

Hannah

a lot of your story rings true for me too.

Now why is it that I make women cry??? :^) (Not the music in your
head… in your heart!)

I have often found myself thinking the same thing, no music, no joy,
what is it all coming to?

I don’t have any easy answers to that. My first thought was, This girl
needs some Ibogaine! or perhaps a toke off a really good indica joint.
Except that can be a little too revealing if you are strung out (maybe
that would be a good thing, i dunno) But I will say I avoided smoking
weed when I was doing smack and crack, it made me too! aware of myself.
which is the opposite of what I was trying to accomplish.

But if the above are not options, I’d say do something good for your
soul. Take a walk by yourself or with a close friend in a park or on
the beach or near a river or lake or wherever is peaceful near where
you live. Treat yourself to an ice cream or go to a music store and
listen to something you’ve never heard before. write crazy thoughts
down… getting them onto paper or computer screen takes them out of
your head, and allows room for creativity, inspiration and that music
of the heart. Geez, that sounds really fucking corny but it works. It
may take days/weeks of writing/journaling to get the flow…

You are right, finding that music in the heart is important.

for me, it is knowing that at the deepest core level, I am a good
person, a pure soul, no matter what the head tells me, or anyone else,
for that matter. Undoubtedly Ibogaine made me ! aware of this, before Ibo
I was just going thru the motions, and kept returning to dope no matter
how hard I tried, or what treatment I did.

But ultimately, getting off the shit will make your life
tremendously… better. Or different anyhow. I don’t recall hearing any
music in my heart when I was using. The only thing I heard was chaotic
noise.

Hey, on the opiate detox site I use 2 people posted that you shouldn’t
take Ibogaine if you’re a woman-its dangerous!  Where on earth did
they get that from?

I do remember reading this along time ago, back in 1996-7. I think it
stems from the fact that a woman died while on Ibogaine in Europe back
then, but I don’t know of any science or statistics that support this.

Howard?

Peace,

_.dh

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Vote for the stars of Yahoo!’s next ad campaign!

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From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]DH
Date: July 25, 2004 at 6:32:59 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Aw, thanks so much for that.  Just knowing I’m not alone in my madness is good.  A couple of weeks ago I went up to the Lake District which is North-west England,  fells, lakes, little windy roads, forests…emmmm I love forests!  Anyway, that week I never even thought of Smack (I had my Sub with me) and was ‘happy’.  I think I wanna run away with the travellers!

Basically I just spend too much time thinking about myself n not enough time socialisin.  Before I used H I was really loud n popular but since H I’m really quiet n nervous.  Probably coz of the huge number of bastards I met whilst using.  I think its really changed me.  Now I’m always on my own.  And smoking weed constantly probably doesn’t help but its the only thing that helps me chill now I’m trying to avoid H (not doing that well either!)

Even when I was a kid I used to write lists of things I wanted people to say about me if I died like ‘kind’ or whatever.  They were my goals.

I think I just spend too much time analysing myself!  I once read a Doctors comments on the Net and he said that all heroin addicts share the same common attributes:
1) immaturity
2)irresponsibilty
3)too much time navel-gazing (by which I think he meant self-analysis)
What do you all think?

Thanks again,  I really needed to hear some kind words this morning!
lol Hannah x
—– Original Message —–
From: D H
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 8:09 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran

On Thursday, July 22, 2004, at 09:33 PM, Hannah Clay wrote:

Nice words DH, made me cry!  What if you suddenly realise there ain’t no music in your head no more?  And you can’t even be sure what tune it used to be?

Hannah,

a lot of your story rings true for me too.

Now why is it that I make women cry??? :^) (Not the music in your head… in your heart!)

I have often found myself thinking the same thing, no music, no joy, what is it all coming to?

I don’t have any easy answers to that. My first thought was, This girl needs some Ibogaine! or perhaps a toke off a really good indica joint. Except that can be a little too revealing if you are strung out (maybe that would be a good thing, i dunno) But I will say I avoided smoking weed when I was doing smack and crack, it made me too aware of myself. which is the opposite of what I was trying to accomplish.

But if the above are not options, I’d say do something good for your soul. Take a walk by yourself or with a close friend in a park or on the beach or near a river or lake or wherever is peaceful near where you live. Treat yourself to an ice cream or go to a music store and listen to something you’ve never heard before. write crazy thoughts down… getting them onto paper or computer screen takes them out of your head, and allows room for creativity, inspiration and that music of the heart. Geez, that sounds really fucking corny but it works. It may take days/weeks of writing/journaling to get the flow…

You are right, finding that music in the heart is important.

for me, it is knowing that at the deepest core level, I am a good person, a pure soul, no matter what the head tells me, or anyone else, for that matter. Undoubtedly Ibogaine made me aware of this, before Ibo I was just going thru the motions, and kept returning to dope no matter how hard I tried, or what treatment I did.

But ultimately, getting off the shit will make your life tremendously… better. Or different anyhow. I don’t recall hearing any music in my heart when I was using. The only thing I heard was chaotic noise.

Hey, on the opiate detox site I use 2 people posted that you shouldn’t take Ibogaine if you’re a woman-its dangerous!  Where on earth did they get that from?

I do remember reading this along time ago, back in 1996-7. I think it stems from the fact that a woman died while on Ibogaine in Europe back then, but I don’t know of any science or statistics that support this.

Howard?

Peace,

_.dh

From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route you take it
Date: July 25, 2004 at 6:21:37 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Firstly Subutex does not contain it,  Suboxone does.  And it only stops you hitting the tablets up.

You would go into WD if you didn’t leave long enough between it and your H – I always leave 12hrs after I’ve had a shot before I take my Sub.  It generally advisable to wait until you’re in mild WD before you take your Sub-not proper sick but you know you’re rattling.

I am confused now though-I thought Suboxone contained Naltrexone not Naloxone but I’m always getting it confused!  It is a human rights issue really-if you’ve never hit-up drugs before then why should you be forced to take a drug that contains soemthing that is not necessary to you?

I hope this helps?  Please anyone jump in if I’m talking crap!  My boyf just came in-he hates me going on this newsgroup and my opiate detox forum for some reason.  He says I can’t trust what people tell me and I become a self-righteous wanker thinking I know better than Doctors etc.  But lots of Docs don’t seem to know much about Sub.  And I do try find out if things are true.  And I try SOOOO hard not to sound self-righteous.  I know how much I hated that when I was full-blown using.

I’m really sorry if I came across like a wanker everybody 🙁

Hannah
—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 7:50 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route you take it

Hi All,

I know the difference between Naloxone and Naltrexone, Narcan (Naloxone) is shorter acting and is shot up.  What I want to know if you take it via mouth will it make you sick?

They put it it Talwin (Narcon or Naloxone) to stop people from shooting it up.  What I want to know if it is in Subutex, which it is,  will it also make you sick by taking it via mouth or under the tongue?  It is not suppose to.  But I would like to be sure.  Like did bupe or Subutex cause anyone to go into w/d by placing it under the tongue?  I probably will not use smack for the next few days but am taking quite a bit of Lortab.

Thanks for any help,

– JIM

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>Naloxone is administered intravenously and lasts for approximately 20 minutes.<

This is Narcan, right, this Naloxone?

>No matter what name they use it is still some bad shit for addicts!<
Other than for the fa ct it can and has saved a number of lives, I agree in that Narcan is not a pleasent drug to be given as an opiate addict, or so I’ve been lead to believe from  seeing it given right in front of me- a few here may even be able to give us even more first hand accounts that I have in the following. I’ve probably posted this before, but so what? There are a few newish subscribers who may not have seen this, so I post it again, at risk of repeating myself and in hopes of entertaining some of you:
snip-
>“What’s that, Narcan?” Thomas asks.
“That’s right,” says the paramedic. “He’s a lucky guy.” He shoots the stuff into Void’s upper arm. “Thirty seconds, just wait. This stuff is magic.”
Thomas doesn’t think Void is going to feel so lucky when he wakes up. Yeah, he’s alive, but he’d just gotten straight. Now he’s going to be really sick. <
end snip-
Full story:
http://www.drugwar.com/PrestonPeetIndex.shtm
Narcan- 
Bringing the Dead Back to Life
chapter 20 of “Something in the Way”
copyright 2001
by Preston Peet

posted Halloween, 2002

“Why is it whenever I’m broke they’re everywhere, but when I’ve got cash, I can’t find anyone?”
“Yeah well, at least you’ve got money. All I got are these two lousy videos. Oh, hold on a second.”
Thomas watches his friend Void run over to a couple of fences standing by St. Marks, and 2nd Ave., and try to sell them the videotapes, to no avail.
Thomas was exiting a building at the corner of Lafayette and Houston Streets after selling some freshly-stolen Shitake mushrooms as Magic mushrooms, calling them “Colorado Gold Tops.” Some guys he’d approached on their way to a club near Fourteenth St. the night before had given him a business card with their work number on it, telling him to call after Thomas had mentioned he could get really good mushrooms. As soon as he’d woken up this morning, he’d run to a phone and given them a call. Setting up the deal had been little trouble. Thomas plays to his victims’ greed, offering them deals better than any they’ll know of anywhere, yet not so much better that the vics get suspicious. He depends on this kind of scam for almost his entire livelihood. From necessity he’s gotten very good at separating people from their money.
Stepping out the office building’s front door, flush with the feeling of success and a good sum of cash, Thomas’ mind was focused on going to score. He’d not seen Void standing there until he’d literally bumped into him.
“Hey, what’s up Void? ‘Scuse me, I’m on a mission. Didn’t see you.” Void seemed to be just standing there. “What are you doing, spanging?”
“Oh no, I need to sell these movies.” Void held out the films, still in their new, shrink-wrapped boxes. “I’m really sick. I need to get straight, bad. I’m gonna come with you, ‘cause hopefully by the time you score, I’ll have sold these.”
Thomas hadn’t been so sure of that, and he’s still not too sure, but he likes Void. Thomas decides that he’ll help get him straight if Void can’t sell the videos. If it comes to that. Thomas doesn’t say this aloud, as there’s the chance Void’ll pull it off, but won’t try as hard if he thinks he’s already covered.
Everyone on the street has their own scam, their own game they play to get what they need. It’s deadly real to the people playing, never feeling much like a game to Thomas anymore. He just happens to make a bit more money than most with his particular scam, enabling him to build a bigger habit.
Void rejoins him. They continue walking down St. Marks to Tompkins Sq., heading through to the opposite side of the park. Unbelievably, none of the spots they pass are open. There’s nobody out doing any selling. Void doesn’t mind as he hasn’t sold the tapes yet, but Thomas is pissed. There’d been dealers out and about not one hour before as he’d been on his way to sell the shrooms. Now there’s no one.
“What about 13th Street? Rush?” Void asks. “How’s that been?”
“It hasn’t been so good the last few days, garbage really.” Thomas answers. “I don’t know if they’re even open yet. It’s only what, Two o’clock, right?”
Thomas doesn’t want to walk over to 13th Street. Walking is beginning to be a chore. He can feel the lack of dope in him, draining his energy reserves. Void is even worse off, but therefore more willing to put the effort into going the four blocks out of the way. There’s nothing for it except to go along, and Thomas does, grudgingly.
They head straight up 10th St. to 1st Ave., and turn right. At 12th, one block before they reach the spot, Void unloads the two tapes to someone at an incense table, making himself the ten bucks he needs for a bag. Thomas is amazed. He hadn’t expected Void to do it, not after failing the entire walk.
“Void, why don’t you go get the dope while I go around the block and score some coke? We’ll meet at the Polish restaurant, Christine’s, between 12th and 13th Streets.”
“Sure, how many do you want?”
“Get me four,” Thomas says handing him forty dollars. “Hurry up.”
Normally he wouldn’t trust someone with his cash, having been burned a number of times before, but he knows Void pretty well. The two of them are as close to being friends as people can get and still be strung out, and besides, if Void knows he’s going to get some coke, he’ll be there. He’s a fiend who would rather get both.
Like his now-dead friend Dan had been once, Void is another rare find.
The coke store Thomas goes to is on 12th St., just across Ave. A. It only takes him 5 minutes to get there, conduct his business, and get back to Christine’s. He arrives almost the same moment as Void, and they walk in together.
Neither of them look too respectable. The restaurant staff eye them both with suspicion and just a bit of revulsion, but no one stops them from taking a seat at a table in the dining area.
“Let me go first, man,” Void says as soon as they are seated. “I’m really sick. I’m going to throw up right here if I don’t do a shot soon.”
It’s not a lot different for Thomas, who can feel his stomach clenching and bubbling in anticipation. But he knows Void is in far worse shape so agrees to wait at the table for Void to go to the toilet first. One of them has to wait with all their bags while the other gets straight.
“Yeah, all right already, just go.”
“The guy said this is a new batch, that it’s very good, and strong,” Void says under his breath.
“Yeah, they always say that it’s the best. You know that. It’d be nice though if it’s better than what they’ve had recently, that’s for sure.” Thomas isn’t too hopeful. As long as it gets him straight, he doesn’t much care. “Hurry up. Don’t take forever, ‘cause I want to go too.”
“Can I have some coke for my shot?” Void asks, still not moving.
“Hell no. I’ll give you some later, but if you do it now, I’ll be out here an hour waiting for you. Fuck that.” There’s no anger in his voice, it’s just that Thomas knows how it is on coke sometimes. “I promise, I’ll give you some a little later. Now go, hurry up.”
Void goes to the bathroom, leaving Thomas at the table. A waitress comes over right after Void walks away, so to keep the place happy, and to feed the both of them a little something, Thomas orders two soups and coffees. By the time Void comes back to the table, Thomas is almost finished with his soup and very impatient.
“About fucking time, Void.” Thomas snarls as Void tries to pull out a chair. He misjudges the distance, pulls it too far, then sits in such a way as to send both it and himself crashing to the floor.
Thomas can’t help it, and laughs out loud. Still chuckling, he bends down and gives Void a hand up. As he lifts, he notices Void is not responding well, that his eyes are way fucked up, glassy and very pinned.
“Hey, you’re not going to nod here at the table and get us thrown out, are you?” He watches Void struggling to keep his eyes open. “You ok?”
“Oh, come on man, you know me, I’m good. Go ahead.” Void slurs out as he picks up his coffee, sloshing a third of it onto the table.
Thomas can’t wait any longer. He has to trust that Void will be OK, and goes to take his turn. The toilet stalls are well used by regular customers of the dope spot around the corner. Thomas is frequently one of those. He knows the restaurant well, knows he should have time to relax and go slow without having a manager in too quickly. He gets out his stuff and mixes up a shot in short order. Right as he has the vein, just about to boot, there comes a firm knock on the door of the stall, then an older man’s heavily accented voice.
“Hey! That your friend at the table? He dead! We call Police, they coming now. You hurry!”
Thomas pushes in the shot before he realizes what the old guy said. Then as the drugs take hold the old guy’s words sink in, giving Thomas the simultaneous rush of the incredibly strong drugs and the disbelief and shock at what’s just been said to him through the closed toilet stall door. The coke rush barely tops the dope. The dealer was telling Void the truth, because the dope feels stronger than any he’s yet found in NYC. Fast as he can in the shape he’s in, he puts everything away and cleans himself up. He wants to be out of the toilet before the cops arrive, not wanting any more attention than he’s already going to have with a dead, overdosed friend on the floor. That’s already more than he wants.
He gets to the table as quickly as he can. Sure enough, Void is on the floor, half under the table, not moving. Thomas crouches down and shakes him. “Wake the hell up man, the cops are coming.” This has absolutely no effect, so he tries smacking him on the cheeks, one after the other. Again there’s nothing. Void’s tattooed face and lips are by now turning a weirder shade of blue, and Thomas can’t find any sign of breathing or a pulse. He pushes the table back, pulls Void’s body so he’s lying stretched out on his back, and considers giving him mouth to mouth resuscitation or even CPR. Luckily he doesn’t have to as he’s abruptly pushed aside by two eager paramedics, all bustle and business.
“Overdose,” says the one who pushed Thomas. “What’d he take?”
“He told me he was sick, and was going to score a bag. I think he only did one. That’s all the money he had, ten bucks.” Thomas is thinking that when the coke he himself shot in that speedball wears off, he’s also going to be very stoned, and doesn’t want to be dealing with the police. They’d arrived with the paramedics, and now they start to question him.
“Where’d he get it? You got any yourself, kid?” One bored cop asks.
“I don’t know where he got it, and no, I don’t.” Thomas sees no need for complete honesty here.
Down on the floor the paramedics aren’t having any more luck than had Thomas in getting Void to respond. One of them reaches into the box of medical supplies he’d brought in, and starts rummaging around.
“His girlfriend lives right across the street. I’m going to run see if she’s there, because I’m not going to the hospital with him. She should know anyway.” The cops agree it’s a good idea, so Thomas runs to her apartment. Finding her home, he quickly convinces her to come with him, explaining along the way what’s going on.
By the time they get back to the restaurant, the paramedic is holding a loaded hypodermic in his hand, preparing to administer it to Void.
“What’s that, Narcan?” Thomas asks.
“That’s right,” says the paramedic. “He’s a lucky guy.” He shoots the stuff into Void’s upper arm. “Thirty seconds, just wait. This stuff is magic.”
Thomas doesn’t think Void is going to feel so lucky when he wakes up. Yeah, he’s alive, but he’d just gotten straight. Now he’s going to be really sick. Narcan completely clears the system of any vestige of the drug and it’s effects, at least temporarily, leaving the patient agonizingly ill.
After exactly thirty seconds, Void’s eyes shoot open. The first words out of his mouth are, “I’m all right, I’m all right.” He’s not even aware he’s been dead, at least not immediately, but confusion is evident on his face. It’s obvious something is wrong. He looks up at the paramedics and cops. “Oh shit.”
“Just lie there for a minute, kid. Relax.” One of the paramedics tells Void, who’s struggling to get to his feet. “Give it a minute, you just had a close call.”
“So now what?” Thomas interrupts one of the cops, who’s making disparaging remarks about junkies and losers to his partner. “Is he going to be OK?”
“Yeah, he’ll be fine. They’ve got to take him in to the hospital ‘cause they gave him a shot. It’s the law. They work on you, you ride with them.” The cop doesn’t look at Thomas, so Thomas doesn’t say anything else.
Void is helped out of the door by the paramedics. Void’s girlfriend goes with him. Thomas can hear her soothing Void, giving comfort, and almost feels a pang of jealousy. He can’t imagine his girlfiend acting thus for him. The cops are speaking with the restaurant staff, writing in their little black books and ignoring him, so Thomas decides it’s definitely time for him to go.
No one pays him any mind as he picks up his bag and coat, and walks out the front door onto 1st Ave.
“Damn I’m glad I’m not Void right now,” he thinks, watching the ambulance drive away. Narcan does not look like a fun experience. If Void had been in a park somewhere, he wouldn’t have had to go through that. Most probably he would have simply slept through the dope, then woken up tomorrow sick, ready to start again. Which is of course exactly what’s going to happen. Thomas knows he’ll bump into Void again soon, sick as hell out looking for drugs. This close call won’t change a thing.
It doesn’t occur to Thomas how close he himself came to lying on the floor being treated by the paramedics.
Thomas shakes his head, then heads to Tompkins Square to do some more of his own stuff, stopping along the way to tell another couple of fiends he knows that “Rush is damned good today.”
Tompkins Sq. Park
Peace all,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 11:22 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route you take it

Jim, I did some research and my findings are as follows…
What is the difference between naltrexone and naloxone?
Functionally, they are the same type of drug. They compete with heroin at the receptor level and block the effect of heroin. Naloxone is administered intravenously and lasts for approximately 20 minutes. Naltrexone is administered orally (pill form) and can last for 1 to 2 days.
No  matter what name they use it is still some bad shit for addicts!
They are now using Naltrexone in alcoholism treatment!
Callie

> ATTACHMENT part 2 image/jpeg name=shooter2.jpg

> ATTACHMENT part 3 image/jpeg name=tompkinstable2.JPG
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From: Terrell Tye <trtye@gci.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] AnyoneFormer’done gone2Bupe
Date: July 25, 2004 at 6:09:24 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I know you guys don’t know me. I’ve only posted here a couple of times. But I was reading this and thought I might be able to contribute. I’ve tried tracking the original poster of this thread but I just can’t find it.  Jim, I think you were the one asking if any former done users had switched to bupe. I just did it this week. For those of you interested, this is the schedule/dosage/how I was feeling of the process:

(Starting at a varying 80-110 mg. methadone habit- 90 mostly but extra when I had a lot of shit to do)

Saturday   80 mgs  methadone

Sunday      70 mgs         ”

Monday     40 mgs        ”

Tues           nada  (no opiates- 3-4 10mg.valium)- started feeling bad around 2:00-3:00pm but doc told me                    that I needed  to be in serious WD and to wait until I really couldn’t bear it anymore.

Weds          felt like shit but still scared – had read too many stories of folks getting even sicker if they do                     Suboxone too soon and to definitely not take more than 1- 8mg pill on 1st day
4mg Suboxone  am & 3-4  10 mg. valium
4mg        ”           pm

Thurs          8mg        ”       8 am          very weak still
8mg        ”       4 pm
4mg        ”        7 pm

Friday         (2) 8mg           am
(1) 8mg           pm – feeling great by the pm – actually too damn great – went out to listen to
some live music – ended up getting totally shit-faced and not coming home till the wee hours.

Sat- Today  (2) 8mg           am – feeling wonderful esp. considering huge hangover
(1) 8mg           pm

So basically, Tues afternoon I started feeling bad (but it takes me longer than most to go into w.d.’s on methadone-slow metabolism, right? Weds. and Thurs. were the worst – but still no cramping, vomiting or the runs – just general feeling of malaise- chills and feeling feverish and absolute weakness. I did the valium to sleep through most of it. This is the 4th time I’ve kicked methadone in 5 years, each time while visiting in Alaska. The first time, with lots of hydrocodone (but my methadone habit was still relatively new). The next year, cold turkey – I’d tapered down to 10 mgs methadone and had been there for probably 2 months or more- I thought it’d be a breeze. WRONG. Ended up in the hospital for IV fluids because I’d puked and squirted every bit of water out of my body. The next summer I’d pre-ordered some .2 mg bupe (Temgesic) from online pharmacies in Thailand and India and went through it beautifully – no w.d.’s other than some weakness. I forgot to mention that I managed to stay clean each time for around 6-8 weeks. It would be after I’d returned to Nashville and old memories (and all those triggers) that amongst my depression, lack of any energy and all the unpaid bills and dirty house, that little voice says “Oh you can probably just get a few hydros to get all this work caught up” and you know the rest of the story. Well, I a year and 3 months ago I finally decided “Fuck Nashville, I’m moving to Alaska”- where I stayed active,  had no connections or ex-husbands to run into. Where I live in Alaska is 2- 1/2 hours to Anchorage where the nearest Meth clinic is. They are totally tight assed and won’t let you transfer your time, clean UA’s, etc. spent at your other clinic. It’s no take homes -period- for 90 days. I had every intention of detoxing again last summer after my move but I got into fixing up the place I moved into, you know the old- “it’s really a bad time to do it, I’ll wait till (fill in the blank) is over, then I’ll do it”. And of course there’s never a “good time” to detox off methadone. Anyway, between sympathetic doctors and my Nashville dealers I kept up the 80-110mg habit till this week.
I don’t plan on staying on the Suboxone for maintenance. As I recall from the previous detox with the Temgesic, it was a walk in the park coming off the bupe. I’ve since read it can be hard if you stay on it too long.
I also plan to do Iboga very soon.  I’ve purposely stayed away from NA or AA because I don’t want to meet other addicts up here  (to be honest I  could never get into 12 steps anyway). They’d just be able to introduce me to their old dealers and then I’ve got that extra temptation that I don’t have now.
Sorry this has been so long. I guess that’s why I don’t post much. I hoped this helped any of you considering it. I’ll be happy to keep you posted when I get off the Suboxone, if anyone’s interested. And thanks those of you that answered my last post.
Good luck to all, trtye
—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 1:19 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] AnyoneFormer’done gone2Bupe

Hey some good news.

A strange thing happeded today.  The first call I made to a doc said they do the bupe thing.  I asked if they used Subutex and they said no they used ??? and damn it I did not catch what she said.  There are two kinds of bupe Subutex and some other kind with the Narcan in it to stop users from shooting it up, just like the Talwin.  If anyone had problems with the Narcan causeing withdrawal please let me know.

I really hate going to new docs, filling out the forms, answering the questions, etc. but if I get the bupe and it helps with the depression I will be happy.  But as one person on the forum said that there are those clinics that just detox you for there is more money to be made than by maintaining you.  So I guess I will just have to go and play it by ear.  I have learned a lot on this forum, I am so glad it is here.  Good luck to everyone.

– JIM

 

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] off topic….thought for the day
Date: July 25, 2004 at 4:05:06 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

‘Callie,

Thanks for your donation. It is really sad that gov’t will pay thousands for 12 step treatment, but outlaws ibogaine.

You are a good soul.

Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] and smoking sessation
Date: July 25, 2004 at 3:57:52 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Randy,
May the Bwiti karma being very fucking willing for you (and me) and may the crick not rise.

Peace,
Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route you take it
Date: July 25, 2004 at 3:56:14 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston,

Thanks for the info about bupe and the liver.  My research has shown that HepC sufferers do fine with ibogaine as long as the virus isn’t too out of control at the time.
Also, anyone offering ibogaine should ask for a liver panel.

Peace,
sean

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] FAQ’s – Considering Ibogaine
Date: July 25, 2004 at 12:31:13 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Steven, I think that would be a great thing to do.
A lot of the same questions do get asked on the list
and putting up a faq on mindvox would be a good place
to start. The same as with the Keeping Clean I think
it didn’t take long to make it but its a nice document
that I show to people that says a lot of useful things
about recovery all in one place.

I like ibogaine uk but it would be great to maybe take
some of what nick wrote and include it as part of the
faq? I don’t know if its negative or not I think its
honest maybe a little too much on the cautius side but
I guess that was when alot of the ibogaine deaths
happened.

However its done it would be great to have it I think,
I love the mindvox site because its pretty but you can
find things 😉 with labels that make sense 🙂
Mindvox is beautiful but like playing a adventure
game, I know thats on purpose patrick 🙂 I am only
saying that what you all are doing with mindvox
ibogaine is the way to go, its really pretty to look
at and has things that are fun to read but you can
find information! please keep it that way! 🙂

Carla B

— Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Hi Steven,

I did something of my own a bit like this a few
years back, up at
http://www.ibogaine.co.uk/info.htm It does kind of
play on the negative a
bit, but I figured it was worth saying.

Best

Nick   www.ibogaine.co.uk

—– Original Message —–
From: “Steven Anker” <stevenanker@hotmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 12:37 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] FAQ’s – Considering Ibogaine

Howdy all,

An idea I’ve had simmering around for awhile…

How about a bunch of us putting something together
for mind-vox along the
lines of “Considering Ibogaine?”

Answer the most frequent questions and give advice
for those considering
taking ibogaine.  People new to the site could
have many of their
questions
answered. I think it would be good to have a
variety of voices. Carla,
Randy, Curtis, Patrick, Sara, Dave, Jon, Adam,
Nick, Howard etc… all
have
unique perspectives and it would be cool to have
them all in one place.
Not
to be exclusionary, but this needs to be done by
those who have tripped
the
iboga.

Perhaps getting people correctly prepped could
help with the efficacy of
ibo.

Patrick, is there anyway you could set something
up where people could
post
bio’s and pictures of themselves? I’m very curious
what everyone looks
like.
Carla, I have strong mental picture of you which
I’m sure is wrong. Is
this
something worth pursueing at all? One big happy
family. Just like Manson.

Any interest? Would it be helpful?

Best,

Steve

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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: its finally here!
Date: July 24, 2004 at 11:26:56 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m packing up and leaving my place at 4:00 for a 7:00 flight. Nervous? You bet. But excited like you I can’t even begin to describe. I can’t wait for to be up in the air and finally be on my way. Everyone is tip toeing around me thinking that I must be a mess with worry but strangely enough I’m not. I’m completely clam and just so determined to change my life from the inside out. My addiction to Meth is a nightmare and my illicit drug use is even worse leaving me with a feeling of total disgust and misery.  I’m incapable of living a life with any real joy as long as I continue to live like this. The craziest thing is that I used to love dope. I used to be hopelessly addicted to dope because I was in love with the way it made me feel. Now 10 years later, I hate the way it makes me feel and immediately after shelling out 100 bucks to feel anything at all, I am immediately reminded of how much I hate it and wrack my brain to figure out why the hell I did it to myself AGAIN.
I need for this to be it. I need to find out why I keep doing this to myself and break this miserable pattern for once and for all and live the life I’m capable of living, whatever that is. But this just has to be it. I mean I know I’m so much more than a rat that keeps hitting the button until it kills me. I have people who love me and who I love who this is making miserable as well as myself. This just has to be it no matter what. I’m so ready to start a new chapter in my life. That starts now.
I’ll drop you all a note when I get to my hotel room. Please keep a good thought for me. Thanks for all of your kind words and encouragement and I will have my laptop with me and will keep anyone who is interested up to date.
Thanks and God Bless.  -MC

Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org> wrote:

Does anyone know any ways of upping the odds that I can quit smoking as well as kicking King Kong’s ass when I get the treatment? That is the Bwiti karma willin’ and the creek don’t rise.     Paradise in the Catskills            Randy

Melatonin at night, especially when you wake up in the middle of the night to pee. The sublinguals–put them up between yr upper lip and gum after moistening. And smoke pot. Not much, but a couple tokes everytime you get the urge to smoke. BTW, the reason pot has no substantial withdrawals is that the cannabidiol is a glutamate antagonist, which means that every joint has a weak ibo-like effect. Very weak, but sufficient to block buildup of tolerance to THC. The melatonin prevents tolerance to the CBD, so you don’t get so much of the “chronic” effect that causes you to need to smoke pot all the time.

Dana/cnw

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – 50x more storage than other providers!

From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] quitting smoking
Date: July 24, 2004 at 9:47:55 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

That is really weak science Dana. It’s tantamount to saying that crack is not addictive because it has little physical signs and symptoms. try going several days without a doobie and see if your not stating ; ” I need a bone”

Ibogaine does NOT reduce or relieve nicotine cravings but may reduce nicotine withdrawal physical symptoms. Those who smoke cigarettes at the beginning of phase two of IBO tend to get nauseous. Perhaps Momma Iboga is telling us that Philip Morris is poison. Personally have no qualms with smoking pot but feel it can blunt the IBO experience which is best left pure. Post IBO pot initially appears to calm anxiety but it’s sum total is actually to increase anxiety and only reinforces the mind set which we wish to break which is SYMPTOM= SUBSTANCE.

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] quitting smoking
Date: July 24, 2004 at 8:05:22 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Does anyone know any ways of upping the odds that I can quit smoking as well as kicking King Kong’s ass when I get the treatment? That is the Bwiti karma willin’ and the creek don’t rise.     Paradise in the Catskills            Randy

Melatonin at night, especially when you wake up in the middle of the night to pee. The sublinguals–put them up between yr upper lip and gum after moistening. And smoke pot. Not much, but a couple tokes everytime you get the urge to smoke. BTW, the reason pot has no substantial withdrawals is that the cannabidiol is a glutamate antagonist, which means that every joint has a weak ibo-like effect. Very weak, but sufficient to block buildup of tolerance to THC. The melatonin prevents tolerance to the CBD, so you don’t get so much of the “chronic” effect that causes you to need to smoke pot all the time.

Dana/cnw

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] psychosis
Date: July 24, 2004 at 6:01:22 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/24/04 2:33:28 PM, jaegerca@student.ethz.ch writes:

<< hi everybody, this my first post on this list. does anyone know if
ibogaine will bring some relief to a psychotic mind? >>

Carlos,

Can you provide some greater detail as to how you define the psychotic mind?

Thanks

Howard

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] FAQ’s – Considering Ibogaine
Date: July 24, 2004 at 6:00:10 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/24/04 3:15:32 PM, nick227@tiscali.co.uk writes:

<< I did something of my own a bit like this a few years back, up at

http://www.ibogaine.co.uk/info.htm It does kind of play on the negative a

bit, but I figured it was worth saying. >>

Steven and Nick,

The manual for ibogaine therapy is somewhat directed towards a review of the
field.

Manual for Ibogaine Therapy
Screening, Safety, Monitoring & Aftercare
Second Revision
by
Howard S. Lotsof & Boaz Wachtel
Marc Emery, Geerte Frenken, Sara Glatt
Brian Mariano, Karl Naeher
Martin Polanko, Marko Resinovic
Nick Sandberg, Eric Taub
Samuel Waizmann, Hattie Wells

http://www.ibogaine.org/manual.html

The manual has a table of contents and the discussion section is also broken
down in the table of contents into its own sections.  I would also suggest
that anyone interested in ibogaine therapy review the links in the additional
document section.

I have been considering beginning the third revision of the Manual for some
time now that would include new topics or cover some topics in greater detail
such as visualization.

I have also been working on an Ibogaine Training Course.  I anticipate both
will be completed with the help of multiple authors within the next three
months.

Some adjunct projects are in the works and will be able to better inform you
about them within the next month. One project just completed by the Dora
Weiner Foundation is the Ibogaine Incident/Grievance Report Form,
http://www.doraweiner.incident.html

The Dora Weiner Projects are particularly directed towards patient issues
while the Ibogaine Dossier projects are more weighted towards providers.

I will be contacting invited authors to participate but, those interested may
also propose themselves by contacting me via private email.

Howard

Howard S. Lotsof
President
Dora Weiner Foundation
POB 10032
Staten Island, NY 10301-0032
USA
dir tel, 1 718 442-2754
dir fax, 1 718 442-1957
email, dwf123@earthlink.net
http://www.doraweiner.org

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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] psychosis
Date: July 24, 2004 at 5:47:14 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

It is very much possible, I think it is very individual and how a person is
dosed during the treatment. I have noticed that crack smoker have a greater
chance to get a psychotic attack after Iboga.
I don’t think that there is a scientific research done about psychosis post
ibogaine.
but then I don’t know what everybody else is doing.

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Sara Glatt [mailto:sara119@xs4all.nl]
Verzonden: zaterdag 24 juli 2004 23:39
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: RE: [ibogaine] psychosis

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Carlos Jäger [mailto:jaegerca@student.ethz.ch]
Verzonden: zaterdag 24 juli 2004 21:33
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: [ibogaine] psychosis

hi everybody, this my first post on this list. does anyone know if
ibogaine will bring some relief to a psychotic mind?

thanks

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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] psychosis
Date: July 24, 2004 at 5:39:21 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Carlos Jäger [mailto:jaegerca@student.ethz.ch]
Verzonden: zaterdag 24 juli 2004 21:33
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: [ibogaine] psychosis

hi everybody, this my first post on this list. does anyone know if
ibogaine will bring some relief to a psychotic mind?

thanks

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] FAQ’s – Considering Ibogaine
Date: July 24, 2004 at 4:14:52 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Steven,

I did something of my own a bit like this a few years back, up at
http://www.ibogaine.co.uk/info.htm It does kind of play on the negative a
bit, but I figured it was worth saying.

Best

Nick   www.ibogaine.co.uk

—– Original Message —–
From: “Steven Anker” <stevenanker@hotmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 12:37 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] FAQ’s – Considering Ibogaine

Howdy all,

An idea I’ve had simmering around for awhile…

How about a bunch of us putting something together for mind-vox along the
lines of “Considering Ibogaine?”

Answer the most frequent questions and give advice for those considering
taking ibogaine.  People new to the site could have many of their
questions
answered. I think it would be good to have a variety of voices. Carla,
Randy, Curtis, Patrick, Sara, Dave, Jon, Adam, Nick, Howard etc… all
have
unique perspectives and it would be cool to have them all in one place.
Not
to be exclusionary, but this needs to be done by those who have tripped
the
iboga.

Perhaps getting people correctly prepped could help with the efficacy of
ibo.

Patrick, is there anyway you could set something up where people could
post
bio’s and pictures of themselves? I’m very curious what everyone looks
like.
Carla, I have strong mental picture of you which I’m sure is wrong. Is
this
something worth pursueing at all? One big happy family. Just like Manson.

Any interest? Would it be helpful?

Best,

Steve

_________________________________________________________________
Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/

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From: Carlos Jäger <jaegerca@student.ethz.ch>
Subject: [ibogaine] psychosis
Date: July 24, 2004 at 3:33:11 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hi everybody, this my first post on this list. does anyone know if ibogaine will bring some relief to a psychotic mind?

thanks

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] AnyoneFormer’done gone2Bupe
Date: July 24, 2004 at 3:15:30 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/24/2004 9:23:13 AM Central Daylight Time, BiscuitBoy714@aol.com writes:
I believed what they told me about putting it under my tongue too. I was told that if you put it under there the naltrexone would have no effect, only if you tried to shoot it and so on and so on about the stomach acids and all. I can tell you most emphatically that that is bullshit. I tried one after I went back on meth dissolving it under my tongue so the naltrexone would have no effect. I got that I wish I hadn’t done that shit feeling in about 5 minutes.

Yep, you are very correct! Makes you sick as hell! Doesn’t matter if you take it po (by mouth), sl (under the tongue or sublingually), IV (intravenously) or IM (intramuscularly) IT WILL MAKE YOU SICK with IMMEDIATE withdrawals!! They are trying to sell the Buprenorphine as the new alternative to Methadone for addicts and also sounds lately like they are pushing it as antidepressant.
You have to stick up for yourself when you talk to your Physician. You are paying lots of cash for their treatment. If they will not listen to you and consider your ideas, find another Doctor.
As for now, I am happy with my Methadone until it is time for my Ibogaine journey in a few months. I have been a guinea pig one too many times! 😉
Callie

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] and smoking sessation
Date: July 24, 2004 at 2:50:52 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

there are multiple anecdotal reports of people dropping smoking post-ibogaine.
_.dh

Does anyone know any ways of upping the odds that I can quit smoking as well as kicking King Kong’s ass when I get the treatment? That is the Bwiti karma willin’ and the creek don’t rise.     Paradise in the Catskills            Randy

From: Germán DC <gcaldelas@fibertel.com.ar>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] and smoking sessation
Date: July 24, 2004 at 2:10:59 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Randy
yeah, go to Atma Nidhi Ashram – 371 Brickman Road,
talk with somebody there and ask her/him to guide you to the statue of Baba Nityananda, do three laps there and go do your Ibo treatment.
odds´ll increase in your favor.
then if you want sing some
om namah shivaya

regards
germándc

—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 10:40 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] and smoking sessation

Does anyone know any ways of upping the odds that I can quit smoking as well as kicking King Kong’s ass when I get the treatment? That is the Bwiti karma willin’ and the creek don’t rise.     Paradise in the Catskills            Randy

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] off topic….thought for the day
Date: July 24, 2004 at 1:23:49 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Silent gratitude isn’t much good to anyone.

–  Gladys Browyn Stern

Hope everyone has a GREAT weekend! Iam grateful for you people!
BTW, I added 50 bucks to my ‘Ibogaine fund’ yesterday! I can’t wait until it is me anticipating my journey in a few days!

Peace out, Callie

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] AnyoneFormer’done gone2Bupe
Date: July 24, 2004 at 11:39:50 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/24/04 9:23:33 AM, BiscuitBoy714@aol.com writes:

<< I tried one after I went back on meth
dissolving it under my tongue so the naltrexone would have no effect. I got
that I wish
I hadn’t done that shit feeling in about 5 minutes. I have never felt so bad
in all the kicks that I have done in all of my junkified career. I was very
much relieved to find out that it only lasted for about 3 or 4 hours but that
damn sure felt like 3 or 4 days. Bad Bad mistake on my part. I will never
ever
believe what the main stream med. profession has to say about treatment or
addiction or the medicine that goes with it until I find out for my self.
Sorry
about the long post but I hope to save someone a whole lot of grief       >>

Randy,

I can’t say whether it is true or not but, at the buprenorphine training held
at the California Society of Addiction Medicine it was indicated that if you
swallowed saliva during the absorption of the sublingual suboxone dose that
not all of the naloxone would be destroyed by stomach acids.  That is why they
tell you not to swallow the tab but, let it dissolve under your tongue.

Howard

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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Fwd: A Picture Share!
Date: July 24, 2004 at 10:56:56 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thank Preston.

I think you all look very Cool. It was a nice introduction.

Sara

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Verzonden: vrijdag 23 juli 2004 23:07
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [ibogaine] Fwd: A Picture Share!

And Sara, you have a great smile and happy eyes.
Love this photos too.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 3:38 PM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Fwd: A Picture Share!

And this is my picture.

Sara

Van: Sapphirestardus@aol.com [mailto:Sapphirestardus@aol.com]
Verzonden: woensdag 21 juli 2004 21:36
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [ibogaine] Fwd: A Picture Share!

Mark, the picture is fine.

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] AnyoneFormer’done gone2Bupe
Date: July 24, 2004 at 10:22:32 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Fellow Mindvoxians Unite!!  I had to see what that would look like. hehe O yea, I have had a lot going on and I am way behind with my E mails so I am late with a reply but I think its important so here goes. I tied the switch about 5 months ago. I quit taking meth cold turkey (60 mgs.) just dalmane to help me sleep, and thats another story, for 5 days then went to the Dr.s office. He titrated me with 2mg bup .5 mg naltrexone until I reached 8mg. bup. 2mg. naltrexone then sent me home ignoring my thoughts about it and suggestions. I did everything that was explained as the way to do it i.e. putting it under my tongue and so forth. Then we tried more, tried less, all the while dissolving it under my tongue to no avail. I never got comfortable, never. I believed what they told me about putting it under my tongue too. I was told that if you put it under there the naltrexone would have no effect, only if you tried to shoot it and so on and so on about the stomach acids and all. I can tell you most emphatically that that is bullshit. I tried one after I went back on meth dissolving it under my tongue so the naltrexone would have no effect. I got that I wish I hadn’t done that shit feeling in about 5 minutes. I have never felt so bad in all the kicks that I have done in all of my junkified career. I was very much relieved to find out that it only lasted for about 3 or 4 hours but that damn sure felt like 3 or 4 days. Bad Bad mistake on my part. I will never ever believe what the main stream med. profession has to say about treatment or addiction or the medicine that goes with it until I find out for my self. Sorry about the long post but I hope to save someone a whole lot of grief            Randy

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran
Date: July 24, 2004 at 9:44:29 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I got arrested the last two times I was there.<

What a drag too, no? I hate getting arrested, but I suppose that’s a silly
comment that could go unsaid, eh?
The cops getting involved simply seems to usually make things worse, not
better, at least in my own experiences.
When we will ever learn, and stop electing the bozos that insist that
things are peachy keen and we can continue the way we are in the directions
we’re going, and not only foreign wars but war here at home on some drugs
and ourselves are also really neato.
Arrested for buying a drugs- that just seems so WEIRD to me, not to
mention EVIL, but then, I guess I’m special or something.
SIgh.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: UUSEAN@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 8:39 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran

Hi Preston,

Everytime I get drunk, I want to smoke rock.  Of course with the hepC, I
consume little to no booze these days…and I’m not smoking rock either.
Hmmmm.

The urge for H though exists while I’m stone cold sober.  Although not
having at least afew drinks before heading to Washington Heights has helped
keep me out of there. I got arrested the last two times I was there.

Sean

Sean

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] and smoking sessation
Date: July 24, 2004 at 9:40:08 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Does anyone know any ways of upping the odds that I can quit smoking as well as kicking King Kong’s ass when I get the treatment? That is the Bwiti karma willin’ and the creek don’t rise.     Paradise in the Catskills            Randy

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route you take it
Date: July 24, 2004 at 9:32:45 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Just to let you know Jim, (see bottom of this note for more info on Bup),
My name is Preston Peet, first name being Preston. While I might answer
to Peet, it’s not what I call myself, so you don’t have to be formal and use
my last name- unless you put a big Mr. in front of it. Then I might think
yer talking to my dad though, so Preston will work just fine. Thank you.
;-)))
Yer right too that methadone, from my own personal experienc, is much
nastier to kick.
The pain doc I see shares office space with another pain doc, who 5
years ago, almost 6 now, first saw me for pain upon recommendation of my
regular doc. I being the honest addict I am, and not wanting to be given any
drug that might counterdict the methadone, told him I was then on methadone.
He wound up giving me three injections, one every other week, directly into
my spine with valium being the only drug given to relax me prior to
injecting me, and a topical (it felt like) shot to numb the skin above my
spine (but not my spine itself- as was obvious when the needle went in-
Ouch!). These injections did nothing for the relentless pain, but after 3,
the max he was willing to give me with no visible results, he told me there
wasn’t anything else he could do for me, that I should “eat better and gain
weight” as that would help build muscle and in turn that’d help me support
my spine better. He was completely unwilling to prescribe anything for the
pain, the reason I initially went to see him.
So I spent the next nearly 6 years not going to see them at the pain
clinic but going to see my own doc instead. But last year it was getting
really ridiculous, in that I was going through my pain meds way too fast and
they still weren’t helping enough. My doc kept saying, “you’ve got to go to
the specialist because the DEA will flag me if I up your dose any higher.”
So I did, after running out of my month’s supply in less than 2 weeks.
Luckily for me, when I went in I happened to see the other doc, the one I’ve
now been seeing for a little over a year, who treated my pain seriously and
gave me what I needed and pays close attention to me and my complaints.
But a few months ago, I went in a couple days early when my own pain doc
wasn’t in, and saw one of the intern types, who after writing out my script
for the one drug realized that the coupons I’d been getting for Avinza
weren’t being accepted any longer, said, “let me get Dr. Thomas, and maybe
he’ll be able to suggest something else.” Right after she walked out I
though, “oh shit, he’s the one who didn’t help me last time.”
Sure enough, the first thing this bozo did when walking in was tell me
he would have treated me in different fashion than my own pain doc was, then
asked me, “are you selling your pills? No offense but are you?”
Understanding the question but still offended due to the silliness of my
selling any of my much needed and still not quite enough drugs, I said no.
He then said he was going to have to talk to my doc and see about
putting me on something else, as he reached into the shelf being him to pull
out the previously mentioned flier for bup.
I had already told this guy I had Hep C. but he was a bozo and pain no
attention to what I told him.
(He also took back the script the intern had already written and wrote
one for just 6 days rather than the 3 weeks I usually got, forcing me to
come back in less than a week and pay another $80 bucks for a simply office
visit- that doesn’t even begin to cover the cost of scripts.)
So after I left and got home I pulled out the flier for bup/naloxone, and
read it.
The first thing it says it that Bup is a narcotic and can be diverted to
street sales, which puzzled the shit outta me as that was his biggest
concern supposedly- why would he change my script due to a stated fear I
could be selling my drugs to another script I could sell just as easily?
Then I read the whole page where it says that Bup does holy hell to a
liver and that if on Bup we should pay attention to all sorts of symptoms
that show it’s causing yet more damage to a damaged liver.
Why the hell would he feel the need to take me off a drug that I know is
helping me to put me on another that the only selling point to is that it is
a drug to help withdrawals while treatig pain too? Seems a bit odd to me
that he is pushing a drug that is just as addictive and a LOT worse for my
body. Are doctors, or this doctor anyway, so frightened by DrugWar
propaganda and scare tactics that he/they really feel that Bup is “better”
than a more natural, less toxic on the liver opiate based medication?
Yes, it seem so if my own experiences are any indication.
Anyway, Bup doesn’t seem all that safe either nor well tested, as Dr.
Andrew Byrne in Australia pointed out recently:

It is worrying that the
American FDA has approved the marketing of the combination product (bup and
naltrexone, and naloxone) even
before research of this nature had been established. One wonders if they
have different standards for drugs used in the treatment of addiction.<

This is clipped from the comments about Bup you can find just below here.
So I hope this give syou some more idea of Bup and the mentality pushing
this stuff. I think it goes hand in hand with the same mentality that pushed
methadone as opposed to simply PRESCRIBING HEROIN, a much less toxic, more
effective, all around better drug.
But then, that would not only be more humane, it would make sense, and
we can’t have that now can we? I mean, we are waging a war on some drugs and
users, right? Soooo.
Peace,
Preston

Pharmacokinetics of high-dose buprenorphine following single
administration of sublingual tablet formulations in opioid naïve healthy
male volunteers under a naltrexone block. McAleer SD, Mills RJ, Polack
T, Hussain T, Rolan PE, Gibbs AD, Mullins FGP, Hussein Z. Drug Alc
Depend (2003) 72; 1:75-83

Dear Colleagues,
At last we have some real data on buprenorphine half lives, absorption
and effects from healthy volunteer studies. These researchers, who were
working for the manufacturers, have taken 35 healthy males and given
substantial doses of buprenorphine after 50 -150mg naltrexone ‘block’.
They then measured clinical and blood parameters at regular intervals
for up to 3 days in an in-patient setting. Techniques for measuring
blood levels of buprenorphine are still being developed and are not
generally available in clinical practice. This makes patient history and
clinical observation even more important than otherwise. A liquid
chromatographic tandem mass spectrometric (LC-MS/MS) assay was developed
by these researchers and it was validated for the measurement of
buprenorphine and nor-buprenorphine, its metabolite, in blood.

Mean half life was found to be 26 hours with a wide range from 9 to 69.
Interestingly, these authors have confirmed some observations in
clinical practice including highly variable half lives and the
‘bi-exponential’ decay sometimes reported by patients. Some had a
‘secondary peak’ at about 10 hours from dosing. The authors report that
some had higher levels following meals and propose ‘entero-hepatic
recirculation’ in some cases. Maximum or ‘peak’ levels occurred between
30 minutes and 3 hours.

The addition of naloxone in the sublingual preparation made no
difference to blood levels. The time taken for the tablets to dissolve
were similar for all dose levels from 2 to 16mg (range 6-12 min) and
were no different for the combination product. It is worrying that the
American FDA has approved the marketing of the combination product even
before research of this nature had been established. One wonders if they
have different standards for drugs used in the treatment of addiction.

A weakness of the study was that it did not examine levels in on-going
treatment, but just individual single doses. Thus is it more relevant to
the initiation period, which is still a major problem for some patients.
There were no opioid effects using the naltrexone block at between 50
and 150mg doses prior to opioid administration.

comments by Andrew Byrne ..

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dr Andrew Byrne,
Medical Practitioner, Dependency Medicine,
75 Redfern Street, Redfern,
New South Wales, 2016, Australia
Email – ajbyrneATozemail.com.au
Tel (61 – 2) 9319 5524 Fax 9318 0631
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 8:57 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route
you take it

Hi Peet,

Thanks Peet, very much.  I don’t believe everything I read so I like to get
people’s opinions or learn from their experiences.  That’s what I was trying
to find out.  I know that you know back in the 60’s methadone was suppose to
be eaiser to kick than H.  There is not one person I know who believes, that
including many docs.

I see the suboxone doc this Wed. and I will see how things go and take it
from there.  At least now I have something to think about or ask him.  BTW,
I asked at the drugstore how much the Subutex pills are and they are $ 6
each for the 8 mg.  Thanks for your imput, it is appreciated.

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Jim Hadey >What I want to know if it is in Subutex, <

According to the flier I have in my hands right now from the company, no it
is not in Subutex- that contains “only the medicine burprenorphine” while
Suboxone contines both bup and naloxone. Both Subutex and Suboxone can cause
fairly severe side effects if the flier is any indication.
And, it IS NOT GOOD TO TAKE IF YOU HAVE HEP C!!!!!
Peace,
Preston

.
—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 2:50 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route
you take it

Hi all,

I know the difference between Naloxone and Naltrexone, Narcan (Naloxone) is
shorter acting and is shot up. What I want to know if you take it via mouth
will it make you sick?

They put it i! t Talwin (Narcon or Naloxone) to stop people from shooting it
up. What I want to know if it is in Subutex, which it is, will it also
make you sick by taking it via mouth or under the tongue? It is not suppose
to. But I would like to be sure. Like did bupe or Subutex cause anyone to
go into w/d by placing it under the tongue? I probably will not use smack
for the next few days but am taking quite a bit of Lortab.

Thanks for any help,

– JIM

Preston Peet wrote:
Naloxone is administered intravenously and lasts for approximately 20
minutes.<

This is Narcan, right, this Naloxone?

No matter what name they use it is still some bad shit for addicts!<
Other than for the fa ct it can and has saved a number of lives, I agree in
that Narcan is not a pleasent drug to be given as an opiate addict, or so
I’ve been lead to believe from seeing it given right in front of me- a few
here may even be able! to give us even more first hand accounts that I have
in the following. I’ve probably posted this before, but so what? There are a
few newish subscribers who may not have seen this, so I post it again, at
risk of repeating myself and in hopes of entertaining some of you:
snip-
“What’s that, Narcan?” Thomas asks.
“That’s right,” says the paramedic. “He’s a lucky guy.” He shoots the stuff
into Void’s upper arm. “Thirty seconds, just wait. This stuff is magic.”
Thomas doesn’t think Void is going to feel so lucky when he wakes up. Yeah,
he’s alive, but he’d just gotten straight. Now he’s going to be really sick.
<
end snip-
Full story:
http://www.drugwar.com/PrestonPeetIndex.shtm
Narcan-
Bringing the Dead Back to Life
chapter 20 of “Something in the Way”
copyright 2001
by Preston Peet

posted Halloween, 2002
“Why is it whenever I’m broke they’re everywhere, but when I’ve got cash, I
can’t find anyone?”
“Yeah wel! l, at least you’ve got money. All I got are these two lousy
videos.
Oh, hold on a second.”
Thomas watches his friend Void run over to a couple of fences standing by
St. Marks, and 2nd Ave., and try to sell them the videotapes, to no avail.
Thomas was exiting a building at the corner of Lafayette and Houston Streets
after selling some freshly-stolen Shitake mushrooms as Magic mushrooms,
calling them “Colorado Gold Tops.” Some guys he’d approached on their way to
a club near Fourteenth St. the night before had given him a business card
with their work number on it, telling him to call after Thomas had mentioned
he could get really good mushrooms. As soon as he’d woken up this morning,
he’d run to a phone and given them a call. Setting up the deal had been
little trouble. Thomas plays to his victims’ greed, offering them deals
better than any they’ll know of anywhere, yet not so much better that the
vics get suspicious. He depends on this kind ! of scam for almost his entire
livelihood. From ! necessity he’s gotten very good at separating people from
their money.
Stepping out the office building’s front door, flush with the feeling of
success and a good sum of cash, Thomas’ mind was focused on going to score.
He’d not seen Void standing there until he’d literally bumped into him.
“Hey, what’s up Void? ‘Scuse me, I’m on a mission. Didn’t see you.” Void
seemed to be just standing there. “What are you doing, spanging?”
“Oh no, I need to sell these movies.” Void held out the films, still in
their new, shrink-wrapped boxes. “I’m really sick. I need to get straight,
bad. I’m gonna come with you, ’cause hopefully by the time you score, I’ll
have sold these.”
Thomas hadn’t been so sure of that, and he’s still not too sure, but he
likes Void. Thomas decides that he’ll help get him straight if Void can’t
sell the videos. If it comes to that. Thomas doesn’t say this aloud, as
there’s the c! hance Void’ll pull it off, but won’t try as hard if he thinks
he’s already covered.
Everyone on the street has their own scam, their own game they play to get
what they need. It’s deadly real to the people playing, never feeling much
like a game to Thomas anymore. He just happens to make a bit more money than
most with his particular scam, enabling him to build a bigger habit.
Void rejoins him. They continue walking down St. Marks to Tompkins Sq.,
heading through to the opposite side of the park. Unbelievably, none of the
spots they pass are open. There’s nobody out doing any selling. Void doesn’t
mind as he hasn’t sold the tapes yet, but Thomas is pissed. There’d been
dealers out and about not one hour before as he’d been on his way to sell
the shrooms. Now there’s no one.
“What about 13th Street? Rush?” Void asks. “How’s that been?”
“It hasn’t been so good the last few days, garbage really.” Thomas answers.
“I don’t know if they’re even! open yet. It’s only what, Two o’clock,
right?”
Thomas doesn’t want to walk over to 13th Street. Walking is beginning to be
a chore. He can feel the lack of dope in him, draining his energy reserves.
Void is even worse off, but therefore more willing to put the effort into
going the four blocks out of the way. There’s nothing for it except to go
along, and Thomas does, grudgingly.
They head straight up 10th St. to 1st Ave., and turn right. At 12th, one
block before they reach the spot, Void unloads the two tapes to someone at
an incense table, making himself the ten bucks he needs for a bag. Thomas is
amazed. He hadn’t expected Void to do it, not after failing the entire walk.
“Void, why don’t you go get the dope while I go around the block and score
some coke? We’ll meet at the Polish restaurant, Christine’s, between 12th
and 13th Streets.”
“Sure, how many do you want?”
“Get me four,” Thomas says handing him forty dollars. “Hurry up.”Normally he
wouldn’t trust someone with his cash, having been burned a
number of times before, but he knows Void pretty well. The two of them are
as close to being friends as people can get and still be strung out, and
besides, if Void knows he’s going to get some coke, he’ll be there. He’s a
fiend who would rather get both.
Like his now-dead friend Dan had been once, Void is another rare find.
The coke store Thomas goes to is on 12th St., just across Ave. A. It only
takes him 5 minutes to get there, conduct his business, and get back to
Christine’s. He arrives almost the same moment as Void, and they walk in
together.
Neither of them look too respectable. The restaurant staff eye them both
with suspicion and just a bit of revulsion, but no one stops them from
taking a seat at a table in the dining area.
“Let me go first, man,” Void says as soon as they are seated. “I’m really
sick. I’m going to throw up right here if I don’t do a shot soon.! ”
It’s not a lot different for Thomas, who can feel his stomach clenching and
bubbling in anticipation. But he knows Void is in far worse shape so agrees
to wait at the table for Void to go to the toilet first. One of them has to
wait with all their bags while the other gets straight.
“Yeah, all right already, just go.”
“The guy said this is a new batch, that it’s very good, and strong,” Void
says under his breath.
“Yeah, they always say that it’s the best. You know that. It’d be nice
though if it’s better than what they’ve had recently, that’s for sure.”
Thomas isn’t too hopeful. As long as it gets him straight, he doesn’t much
care. “Hurry up. Don’t take forever, ’cause I want to go too.”
“Can I have some coke for my shot?” Void asks, still not moving.
“Hell no. I’ll give you some later, but if you do it now, I’ll be out here
an hour waiting for you. Fuck that.” There’s no anger in his voice, it’s
just that Thomas knows how it is on coke sometimes. “I promise, I’ll give
you some a little later. Now go, hurry up.”
Void goes to the bathroom, leaving Thomas at the table. A waitress comes
over right after Void walks away, so to keep the place happy, and to feed
the both of them a little something, Thomas orders two soups and coffees. By
the time Void comes back to the table, Thomas is almost finished with his
soup and very impatient.
“About fucking time, Void.” Thomas snarls as Void tries to pull out a chair.
He misjudges the distance, pulls it too far, then sits in such a way as to
send both it and himself crashing to the floor.
Thomas can’t help it, and laughs out loud. Still chuckling, he bends down
and gives Void a hand up. As he lifts, he notices Void is not responding
well, that his eyes are way fucked up, glassy and very pinned.
“Hey, you’re not going to nod here at the table and get us thrown out, are
you?” He watches Void struggling to keep his eyes open. “You ok?”
“Oh, come on man, you know me, I’m good. Go ahead.” Void slurs out as he
picks up his coffee, sloshing a third of it onto the table.
Thomas can’t wait any longer. He has to trust that Void will be OK, and goes
to take his turn. The toilet stalls are well used by regular customers of
the dope spot around the corner. Thomas is frequently one of those. He knows
the restaurant well, knows he should have time to relax and go slow without
having a manager in too quickly. He gets out his stuff and mixes up a shot
in short order. Right as he has the vein, just about to boot, there comes a
firm knock on the door of the stall, then an older man’s heavily accented
voice.
“Hey! That your friend at the table? He dead! We call Police, they coming
now. You hurry!”
Thomas pushes in the shot before he realizes what the old guy said. Then as
the drugs take hold the old guy’s words sink in, giving Thomas the
simultaneous rush of the incredibly! strong drugs and the disbelief and
shock
at what’s just been said to him through the closed toilet stall door. The
coke rush barely tops the dope. The dealer was telling Void the truth,
because the dope feels stronger than any he’s yet found in NYC. Fast as he
can in the shape he’s in, he puts everything away and cleans himself up. He
wants to be out of the toilet before the cops arrive, not wanting any more
attention than he’s already going to have with a dead, overdosed friend on
the floor. That’s already more than he wants.
He gets to the table as quickly as he can. Sure enough, Void is on the
floor, half under the table, not moving. Thomas crouches down and shakes
him. “Wake the hell up man, the cops are coming.” This has absolutely no
effect, so he tries smacking him on the cheeks, one after the other. Again
there’s nothing. Void’s tattooed face and lips are by now turning a weirder
shade of blue, and Thomas can’t find any sign of breath! ing or a pulse. He
pushes the table back, pulls Void’s body so he’s lying stretched out on his
back, and considers giving him mouth to mouth resuscitation or even CPR.
Luckily he doesn’t have to as he’s abruptly pushed aside by two eager
paramedics, all bustle and business.
“Overdose,” says the one who pushed Thomas. “What’d he take?”
“He told me he was sick, and was going to score a bag. I think he only did
one. That’s all the money he had, ten bucks.” Thomas is thinking that when
the coke he himself shot in that speedball wears off, he’s also going to be
very stoned, and doesn’t want to be dealing with the police. They’d arrived
with the paramedics, and now they start to question him.
“Where’d he get it? You got any yourself, kid?” One bored cop asks.
“I don’t know where he got it, and no, I don’t.” Thomas sees no need for
complete honesty here.
Down on the floor the paramedics aren’t having any more luck than had Thomas
in getting Void! to respond. One of them reaches into the box of medical
supplies he’d brought in, and starts rummaging around.
“His girlfriend lives right across the street. I’m going to run see if she’s
there, because I’m not going to the hospital with him. She should know
anyway.” The cops agree it’s a good idea, so Thomas runs to her apartment.
Finding her home, he quickly convinces her to come with him, explaining
along the way what’s going on.
By the time they get back to the restaurant, the paramedic is holding a
loaded hypodermic in his hand, preparing to administer it to Void.
“What’s that, Narcan?” Thomas asks.
“That’s right,” says the paramedic. “He’s a lucky guy.” He shoots the stuff
into Void’s upper arm. “Thirty seconds, just wait. This stuff is magic.”
Thomas doesn’t think Void is going to feel so lucky when he wakes up. Yeah,
he’s alive, but he’d just gotten straight. Now he’s going to be really sick.
Narcan completely clears the system! of any vestige of the drug and it’s
effects, at least temporarily, leaving the patient agonizingly ill.
After exactly thirty seconds, Void’s eyes shoot open. The first words out of
his mouth are, “I’m all right, I’m all right.” He’s not even aware he’s been
dead, at least not immediately, but confusion is evident on his face. It’s
obvious something is wrong. He looks up at the paramedics and cops. “Oh
shit.”
“Just lie there for a minute, kid. Relax.” One of the paramedics tells Void,
who’s struggling to get to his feet. “Give it a minute, you just had a close
call.”
“So now what?” Thomas interrupts one of the cops, who’s making disparaging
remarks about junkies and losers to his partner. “Is he going to be OK?”
“Yeah, he’ll be fine. They’ve got to take him in to the hospital ’cause they
gave him a shot. It’s the law. They work on you, you ride with them.” The
cop doesn’t look at Thomas, so Thomas doesn’t say anything else.
Void is helpe! d out of the door by the paramedics. Void’s girlfriend goes
with him. Thomas can hear her soothing Void, giving comfort, and almost feel
s a pang of jealousy. He can’t imagine his girlfiend acting thus for him.
The cops are speaking with the restaurant staff, writing in their little
black books and ignoring him, so Thomas decides it’s definitely time for him
to go.
No one pays him any mind as he picks up his bag and coat, and walks out the
front door onto 1st Ave.
“Damn I’m glad I’m not Void right now,” he thinks, watching the ambulance
drive away. Narcan does not look like a fun experience. If Void had been in
a park somewhere, he wouldn’t have had to go through that. Most probably he
would have simply slept through the dope, then woken up tomorrow sick, ready
to start again. Which is of course exactly what’s going to happen. Thomas
knows he’ll bump into Void again soon, sick as hell out looking for drugs.
This close call won’t change a thi! ng.
It doesn’t occur to Thomas how close he himself came to lying on the floor
being treated by the paramedics.
Thomas shakes his head, then heads to Tompkins Square to do some more of his
own stuff, stopping along the way to tell another couple of fiends he knows
that “Rush is damned good today.”

Tompkins Sq. Park
Peace all,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 11:22 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route you
take it

Jim, I did some research and my findings are as follows…
What is the difference between naltrexone and naloxone?
Functionally, they are the same type of drug. They compete with heroin at
the receptor level and block the effect of heroin. Naloxone is administered
intravenously and lasts for approximately 20 minutes. Naltrexone is
administered orally (pill form) and can last for 1 to 2 days.
No matter what name they use it is still some bad shit for addicts!
They are now using Naltrexone in alcoholism treatment!
Callie

ATTACHMENT part 2 image/jpeg name=shooter2.jpg

ATTACHMENT part 3 image/jpeg name=tompkinstable2.JPG

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From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] *Sorelmathers*Re: mcorcoran
Date: July 24, 2004 at 9:14:24 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Good Morning Jason. Haven’t spoke to you in a while. What is the difference in experience between extract and the HCL.? Is is the strength? What do you feel with extract and do you have visuals and auditury?

Thanks Jason,
Julian

From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route you take it
Date: July 24, 2004 at 8:57:22 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Peet,

Thanks Peet, very much.  I don’t believe everything I read so I like to get people’s opinions or learn from their experiences.  That’s what I was trying to find out.  I know that you know back in the 60’s methadone was suppose to be eaiser to kick than H.  There is not one person I know who believes, that including many docs.

I see the suboxone doc this Wed. and I will see how things go and take it from there.  At least now I have something to think about or ask him.  BTW, I asked at the drugstore how much the Subutex pills are and they are $ 6 each for the 8 mg.  Thanks for your imput, it is appreciated.

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Jim Hadey >What I want to know if it is in Subutex, <

According to the flier I have in my hands right now from the company, no it
is not in Subutex- that contains “only the medicine burprenorphine” while
Suboxone contines both bup and naloxone. Both Subutex and Suboxone can cause
fairly severe side effects if the flier is any indication.
And, it IS NOT GOOD TO TAKE IF YOU HAVE HEP C!!!!!
Peace,
Preston

.
—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 2:50 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route
you take it

Hi all,

I know the difference between Naloxone and Naltrexone, Narcan (Naloxone) is
shorter acting and is shot up. What I want to know if you take it via mouth
will it make you sick?

They put it it Talwin (Narcon or Naloxone) to stop people from shooting it
up. What I want to know if it is in Subutex, which it is, will it also
make you sick by taking it via mouth or under the tongue? It is not suppose
to. But I would like to be sure. Like did bupe or Subutex cause anyone to
go into w/d by placing it under the tongue? I probably will not use smack
for the next few days but am taking quite a bit of Lortab.

Thanks for any help,

– JIM

Preston Peet wrote:
>Naloxone is administered intravenously and lasts for approximately 20
minutes.<

This is Narcan, right, this Naloxone?

>No matter what name they use it is still some bad shit for addicts!<
Other than for the fa ct it can and has saved a number of lives, I agree in
that Narcan is not a pleasent drug to be given as an opiate addict, or so
I’ve been lead to believe from seeing it given right in front of me- a few
here may even be able to give us even more first hand accounts that I have
in the following. I’ve probably posted this before, but so what? There are a
few newish subscribers who may not have seen this, so I post it again, at
risk of repeating myself and in hopes of entertaining some of you:
snip-
>”What’s that, Narcan?” Thomas asks.
“That’s right,” says the paramedic. “He’s a lucky guy.” He shoots the stuff
into Void’s upper arm. “Thirty seconds, just wait. This stuff is magic.”
Thomas doesn’t think Void is going to feel so lucky when he wakes up. Yeah,
he’s alive, but he’d just gotten straight. Now he’s going to be really sick.
<
end snip-
Full story:
http://www.drugwar.com/PrestonPeetIndex.shtm
Narcan-
Bringing the Dead Back to Life
chapter 20 of “Something in the Way”
copyright 2001
by Preston Peet

posted Halloween, 2002
“Why is it whenever I’m broke they’re everywhere, but when I’ve got cash, I
can’t find anyone?”
“Yeah well, at least you’ve got money. All I got are these two lousy videos.
Oh, hold on a second.”
Thomas watches his friend Void run over to a couple of fences standing by
St. Marks, and 2nd Ave., and try to sell them the videotapes, to no avail.
Thomas was exiting a building at the corner of Lafayette and Houston Streets
after selling some freshly-stolen Shitake mushrooms as Magic mushrooms,
calling them “Colorado Gold Tops.” Some guys he’d approached on their way to
a club near Fourteenth St. the night before had given him a business card
with their work number on it, telling him to call after Thomas had mentioned
he could get really good mushrooms. As soon as he’d woken up this morning,
he’d run to a phone and given them a call. Setting up the deal had been
little trouble. Thomas plays to his victims’ greed, offering them deals
better than any they’ll know of anywhere, yet not so much better that the
vics get suspicious. He depends on this kind of scam for almost his entire
livelihood. From ! necessity he’s gotten very good at separating people from
their money.
Stepping out the office building’s front door, flush with the feeling of
success and a good sum of cash, Thomas’ mind was focused on going to score.
He’d not seen Void standing there until he’d literally bumped into him.
“Hey, what’s up Void? ‘Scuse me, I’m on a mission. Didn’t see you.” Void
seemed to be just standing there. “What are you doing, spanging?”
“Oh no, I need to sell these movies.” Void held out the films, still in
their new, shrink-wrapped boxes. “I’m really sick. I need to get straight,
bad. I’m gonna come with you, ’cause hopefully by the time you score, I’ll
have sold these.”
Thomas hadn’t been so sure of that, and he’s still not too sure, but he
likes Void. Thomas decides that he’ll help get him straight if Void can’t
sell the videos. If it comes to that. Thomas doesn’t say this aloud, as
there’s the chance Void’ll pull it off, but won’t try as hard if he thinks
he’s already covered.
Everyone on the street has their own scam, their own game they play to get
what they need. It’s deadly real to the people playing, never feeling much
like a game to Thomas anymore. He just happens to make a bit more money than
most with his particular scam, enabling him to build a bigger habit.
Void rejoins him. They continue walking down St. Marks to Tompkins Sq.,
heading through to the opposite side of the park. Unbelievably, none of the
spots they pass are open. There’s nobody out doing any selling. Void doesn’t
mind as he hasn’t sold the tapes yet, but Thomas is pissed. There’d been
dealers out and about not one hour before as he’d been on his way to sell
the shrooms. Now there’s no one.
“What about 13th Street? Rush?” Void asks. “How’s that been?”
“It hasn’t been so good the last few days, garbage really.” Thomas answers.
“I don’t know if they’re even open yet. It’s only what, Two o’clock, right?”
Thomas doesn’t want to walk over to 13th Street. Walking is beginning to be
a chore. He can feel the lack of dope in him, draining his energy reserves.
Void is even worse off, but therefore more willing to put the effort into
going the four blocks out of the way. There’s nothing for it except to go
along, and Thomas does, grudgingly.
They head straight up 10th St. to 1st Ave., and turn right. At 12th, one
block before they reach the spot, Void unloads the two tapes to someone at
an incense table, making himself the ten bucks he needs for a bag. Thomas is
amazed. He hadn’t expected Void to do it, not after failing the entire walk.
“Void, why don’t you go get the dope while I go around the block and score
some coke? We’ll meet at the Polish restaurant, Christine’s, between 12th
and 13th Streets.”
“Sure, how many do you want?”
“Get me four,” Thomas says handing him forty dollars. “Hurry up.”
Normally he wouldn’t trust someone with his cash, having been burned a
number of times before, but he knows Void pretty well. The two of them are
as close to being friends as people can get and still be strung out, and
besides, if Void knows he’s going to get some coke, he’ll be there. He’s a
fiend who would rather get both.
Like his now-dead friend Dan had been once, Void is another rare find.
The coke store Thomas goes to is on 12th St., just across Ave. A. It only
takes him 5 minutes to get there, conduct his business, and get back to
Christine’s. He arrives almost the same moment as Void, and they walk in
together.
Neither of them look too respectable. The restaurant staff eye them both
with suspicion and just a bit of revulsion, but no one stops them from
taking a seat at a table in the dining area.
“Let me go first, man,” Void says as soon as they are seated. “I’m really
sick. I’m going to throw up right here if I don’t do a shot soon.”
It’s not a lot different for Thomas, who can feel his stomach clenching and
bubbling in anticipation. But he knows Void is in far worse shape so agrees
to wait at the table for Void to go to the toilet first. One of them has to
wait with all their bags while the other gets straight.
“Yeah, all right already, just go.”
“The guy said this is a new batch, that it’s very good, and strong,” Void
says under his breath.
“Yeah, they always say that it’s the best. You know that. It’d be nice
though if it’s better than what they’ve had recently, that’s for sure.”
Thomas isn’t too hopeful. As long as it gets him straight, he doesn’t much
care. “Hurry up. Don’t take forever, ’cause I want to go too.”
“Can I have some coke for my shot?” Void asks, still not moving.
“Hell no. I’ll give you some later, but if you do it now, I’ll be out here
an hour waiting for you. Fuck that.” There’s no anger in his voice, it’s
just that Thomas knows how it is on coke sometimes. “I promise, I’ll give
you some a little later. Now go, hurry up.”
Void goes to the bathroom, leaving Thomas at the table. A waitress comes
over right after Void walks away, so to keep the place happy, and to feed
the both of them a little something, Thomas orders two soups and coffees. By
the time Void comes back to the table, Thomas is almost finished with his
soup and very impatient.
“About fucking time, Void.” Thomas snarls as Void tries to pull out a chair.
He misjudges the distance, pulls it too far, then sits in such a way as to
send both it and himself crashing to the floor.
Thomas can’t help it, and laughs out loud. Still chuckling, he bends down
and gives Void a hand up. As he lifts, he notices Void is not responding
well, that his eyes are way fucked up, glassy and very pinned.
“Hey, you’re not going to nod here at the table and get us thrown out, are
you?” He watches Void struggling to keep his eyes open. “You ok?”
“Oh, come on man, you know me, I’m good. Go ahead.” Void slurs out as he
picks up his coffee, sloshing a third of it onto the table.
Thomas can’t wait any longer. He has to trust that Void will be OK, and goes
to take his turn. The toilet stalls are well used by regular customers of
the dope spot around the corner. Thomas is frequently one of those. He knows
the restaurant well, knows he should have time to relax and go slow without
having a manager in too quickly. He gets out his stuff and mixes up a shot
in short order. Right as he has the vein, just about to boot, there comes a
firm knock on the door of the stall, then an older man’s heavily accented
voice.
“Hey! That your friend at the table? He dead! We call Police, they coming
now. You hurry!”
Thomas pushes in the shot before he realizes what the old guy said. Then as
the drugs take hold the old guy’s words sink in, giving Thomas the
simultaneous rush of the incredibly strong drugs and the disbelief and shock
at what’s just been said to him through the closed toilet stall door. The
coke rush barely tops the dope. The dealer was telling Void the truth,
because the dope feels stronger than any he’s yet found in NYC. Fast as he
can in the shape he’s in, he puts everything away and cleans himself up. He
wants to be out of the toilet before the cops arrive, not wanting any more
attention than he’s already going to have with a dead, overdosed friend on
the floor. That’s already more than he wants.
He gets to the table as quickly as he can. Sure enough, Void is on the
floor, half under the table, not moving. Thomas crouches down and shakes
him. “Wake the hell up man, the cops are coming.” This has absolutely no
effect, so he tries smacking him on the cheeks, one after the other. Again
there’s nothing. Void’s tattooed face and lips are by now turning a weirder
shade of blue, and Thomas can’t find any sign of breathing or a pulse. He
pushes the table back, pulls Void’s body so he’s lying stretched out on his
back, and considers giving him mouth to mouth resuscitation or even CPR.
Luckily he doesn’t have to as he’s abruptly pushed aside by two eager
paramedics, all bustle and business.
“Overdose,” says the one who pushed Thomas. “What’d he take?”
“He told me he was sick, and was going to score a bag. I think he only did
one. That’s all the money he had, ten bucks.” Thomas is thinking that when
the coke he himself shot in that speedball wears off, he’s also going to be
very stoned, and doesn’t want to be dealing with the police. They’d arrived
with the paramedics, and now they start to question him.
“Where’d he get it? You got any yourself, kid?” One bored cop asks.
“I don’t know where he got it, and no, I don’t.” Thomas sees no need for
complete honesty here.
Down on the floor the paramedics aren’t having any more luck than had Thomas
in getting Void to respond. One of them reaches into the box of medical
supplies he’d brought in, and starts rummaging around.
“His girlfriend lives right across the street. I’m going to run see if she’s
there, because I’m not going to the hospital with him. She should know
anyway.” The cops agree it’s a good idea, so Thomas runs to her apartment.
Finding her home, he quickly convinces her to come with him, explaining
along the way what’s going on.
By the time they get back to the restaurant, the paramedic is holding a
loaded hypodermic in his hand, preparing to administer it to Void.
“What’s that, Narcan?” Thomas asks.
“That’s right,” says the paramedic. “He’s a lucky guy.” He shoots the stuff
into Void’s upper arm. “Thirty seconds, just wait. This stuff is magic.”
Thomas doesn’t think Void is going to feel so lucky when he wakes up. Yeah,
he’s alive, but he’d just gotten straight. Now he’s going to be really sick.
Narcan completely clears the system of any vestige of the drug and it’s
effects, at least temporarily, leaving the patient agonizingly ill.
After exactly thirty seconds, Void’s eyes shoot open. The first words out of
his mouth are, “I’m all right, I’m all right.” He’s not even aware he’s been
dead, at least not immediately, but confusion is evident on his face. It’s
obvious something is wrong. He looks up at the paramedics and cops. “Oh
shit.”
“Just lie there for a minute, kid. Relax.” One of the paramedics tells Void,
who’s struggling to get to his feet. “Give it a minute, you just had a close
call.”
“So now what?” Thomas interrupts one of the cops, who’s making disparaging
remarks about junkies and losers to his partner. “Is he going to be OK?”
“Yeah, he’ll be fine. They’ve got to take him in to the hospital ’cause they
gave him a shot. It’s the law. They work on you, you ride with them.” The
cop doesn’t look at Thomas, so Thomas doesn’t say anything else.
Void is helped out of the door by the paramedics. Void’s girlfriend goes
with him. Thomas can hear her soothing Void, giving comfort, and almost feel
s a pang of jealousy. He can’t imagine his girlfiend acting thus for him.
The cops are speaking with the restaurant staff, writing in their little
black books and ignoring him, so Thomas decides it’s definitely time for him
to go.
No one pays him any mind as he picks up his bag and coat, and walks out the
front door onto 1st Ave.
“Damn I’m glad I’m not Void right now,” he thinks, watching the ambulance
drive away. Narcan does not look like a fun experience. If Void had been in
a park somewhere, he wouldn’t have had to go through that. Most probably he
would have simply slept through the dope, then woken up tomorrow sick, ready
to start again. Which is of course exactly what’s going to happen. Thomas
knows he’ll bump into Void again soon, sick as hell out looking for drugs.
This close call won’t change a thing.
It doesn’t occur to Thomas how close he himself came to lying on the floor
being treated by the paramedics.
Thomas shakes his head, then heads to Tompkins Square to do some more of his
own stuff, stopping along the way to tell another couple of fiends he knows
that “Rush is damned good today.”

Tompkins Sq. Park
Peace all,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 11:22 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route you
take it

Jim, I did some research and my findings are as follows…
What is the difference between naltrexone and naloxone?
Functionally, they are the same type of drug. They compete with heroin at
the receptor level and block the effect of heroin. Naloxone is administered
intravenously and lasts for approximately 20 minutes. Naltrexone is
administered orally (pill form) and can last for 1 to 2 days.
No matter what name they use it is still some bad shit for addicts!
They are now using Naltrexone in alcoholism treatment!
Callie

> ATTACHMENT part 2 image/jpeg name=shooter2.jpg

> ATTACHMENT part 3 image/jpeg name=tompkinstable2.JPG

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From: “FakePlacebo” <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] AnyoneFormer’done gone2Bupe (treatment in Turkey)
Date: July 24, 2004 at 3:50:33 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear DH, gboy and Jim,

If you arrest for Canabis use here in Turkey for first time you could sentence to one year in prison (but if you are just an ordinary Canabis user) If you are a dealer the sentence is 4 to 8 years in prison. But this not the worst. Once you registered in government records by the canabis using or dealing crime; you have no civil rights anymore for your lifetime. Here in Turkey companies ask you your police records if your papers are not  “clean” they never hire you.  (there is no delete by the time or something) you can not get driving licance, civil right like voting, passaport and many more…. even you can’t get marrie, you can not give testimony for cases.

Turkish jails are awfull. Prisons are staying so many crowded and narrow rooms. Many of the prisons are sleeping on the concret ground as they are naked. Sexual harassment and rape are very ordinary cases in the jails of country.

gboy asked me why I’m keep on live here in Turkey? I’m graduated one as a computer engineer and it’s not  hard to get a job outside of Turkey for me. But first I have to break my chains to the oppiates. My addiction is obstruct me to go out.

I know this is not an excuse but my mother and father died in car accident when I was a baby and I raised in an orphanage. I have no parents or relatives all I have is 12 years old male cat.  I’m sure that I will break my chains one way or the other and leave this country (with my cat)

Best Regards
FakePlacebo

—– Original Message —–
From: D H
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 9:46 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] AnyoneFormer’done gone2Bupe (treatment in Turkey)

Damn, FP,

It sounds like Turkey is about 50 years behind the times.

Like Preston, I am curious on the Cannabis laws over there, with all that tasty turkish hashish to be had?

If you become registered as an addict, do they allow you to leave the country?

Peace,
_.dh

On Thursday, July 22, 2004, at 10:23 PM, FakePlacebo wrote:

My Friend Jim,

It’s sounds so strange for me that hear from you about detoxing way of detox center in the western world. I think it’s only in my country. In here Turkey there is an official addiction treating center wich name is AMATEM. to hear that name  gives all the addicts  fright and horor. Beacuse thing they call it treatment is just lock you in a empty room and let you alone without sometimes even one glass of water; until you became “clean”. After you stay there around ten fucking days they register you as an addict in the govrentment records and you can’t get a job, driving licance and civil rights like voting.

There is no medical or mentaly support in AMATEM. Once you registered as an addict you’r dead thats all. The addicts put the name of this treatment: “concret treatment” beacuse of the empty cold concret room. But if you are rich (very rich) there is few clean, good, comfortable detox centers in Turkey.

They treated me in AMATEM  for three times. ( they get me there by the police force) But I was lucky 10 years ago there was no computer to keep records and records totaly lost beacuse of conflagration.

Best Regards
FakePlacebo

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran
Date: July 23, 2004 at 8:39:48 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Preston,

Everytime I get drunk, I want to smoke rock.  Of course with the hepC, I consume little to no booze these days…and I’m not smoking rock either. Hmmmm.

The urge for H though exists while I’m stone cold sober.  Although not having at least afew drinks before heading to Washington Heights has helped keep me out of there. I got arrested the last two times I was there.

Sean

Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran
Date: July 23, 2004 at 8:24:17 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi M,

I hear the hope in your post.  (And from my experience, at least wear a really light long sleeve shirt to your parents.:)  It is good to hear that you are going forward with treatment.

sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] getting dosed (abused) in the ER
Date: July 23, 2004 at 8:14:05 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Hannah,

Thanks for the information.  I am connecting with someone in NY who is interested in getting a union going in the US.  I will keep you and the group updated.

On another note, I am really considering iboagine treatment possibly as soon as the next couple of months.  I will have to quite alot aof footwork though, and part of me less enthusiastic than I was a while back.   Just typing this to share how I feel, as sometimes that gets me more motivated.  And where else but the ibogaine list?

Sean

From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] mcorcoran
Date: July 23, 2004 at 7:48:07 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I hope your brain isn’t so fried that you can’t figure out that masterful code.
I’m such a jack ass.  -m.

mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com> wrote:
i want to talk to you before I leave. call me or I’ll call you.  -M. 8673-504-719

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
“your so brave”
LOL.
Seriously brave guy, I am excited for you.
I for one am glad you surviced that cocaine incident- god damn but I
remember that feeling of fear so well, that absolute terror telling someone,
“hey, go get help, I’m going to die,” and watching them not move, not get
up, not do anything at all but sit there as the huge bugs began crawling
around my face and body, so big I could feel them crunching in my fingers as
I yanked them from my face but couldn’t hear the pop as the strobe light was
too loud in my ears and I couldn’t see the damn things because…well…they
weren’t really there.
Those were the days, eh?
Peace and love to you Mark.
Preston (make sure to fill us in upon your return. DON’T leave those of us
still waiting in the lurch, PLEASE.)

—– Original Message —–
From: mcorcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 6:32 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran

I had this dream last night that my plane was hijacked and I was trying to
sneak in the bathroom to drink my bottles, sick huh? Maybe no more 9-11
report before my Ibo treatment. Oh my God, I’m leavin the day after
tomorrow. I dropped to 80 today. i guess for no other reason than kickin an
80 sounds a lot more doable than a 90 or 100 or 110.
Hey not bad for 4 weeks. But I’m not feelin all that great i have to tell
you. But not terrible either. Excited as hell one minute scared to death the
next. But I guess thats normal. If one more person says “your so brave” I
think I’ll puke. I mean I appreciate th sentiment, I really do. but I don’t
want this to be a thing where I need to be “soo brave” I want this to be a
little easier than everyone seems to think. Not you guys of course. :o) Well
not all of you anyway. I’m feeling empowered these last few days. i guess
looking at the prospect of being free makes me realize that a lot of the
things that I do in my life that I’m not happy with I put up with because in
one way or another because if I didn’t it would make my use that much more
difficult. Hate my job, but there is not much chance that I could make this
kinda money doing something I like, and I need this money for my expensive
program, and my frivolous spending due to drugs and alcohol. My Apartment,
its a nice place but I wouldn’t be breaking my neck trying to pay this
ridiculous rent if it wasn’t so convenient to my program and my drinking
haunts. Oh and Harlem being 15 blocks away has been a plus as well. Ya know,
shit like that. So the idea that I no longer need to live with that fear
that if it all came crumbling down (which it feels like its going to at any
minute) I’d be totally screwed, is really comforting. I walked out of the
office this afternoon and thought to myself that its more likely than not
that I will never step foot in that place again, and instead of that fear I
usually feel when I think I might lose my job and wont have money coming in,
it was a feeling of complete relief. It was like “Thank God I’m finally
closing the door on this miserable part of my life”. I couldn’t stop smiling
all the way home.
Then on the subway I see this guy that I used to run with (Preston you’d
know him) and he looked like death warmed over. “Just came home from doin 90
days on the Island and lookin for dope and coke and headin uptown”. I told
him about the Ibogaine and he didn’t seem to have much thoughts one way or
another. He said that it seemed like I was doing well to begin with then he
began to talk about how fucked up used to be and “do you remember the time
you had that coke OD seize running out of that restaurant on 5th St, cuz the
guy caught you in the bathroom fixing?” I acted like I didn’t know what he
was talkin about but I remember obviously and instead of responding further
I kept asking him to keep his voice down. Actually I remembered it like it
was yesterday after he mentioned it, just slamming the whole 20 because I
was already so freaked out that he had burst in on me… and my legs are
giving out and my arms are starting to go and I know its coming… I turned
around and said “please sir, I’m gonna die” He said something like” yeah you
are gonna die” but before he had a chance I collapsed and bounced around
like a fish out of water. God its crazy because I haven’t been that kinda
cracked out. Now 8 or 9 years later I’m an undercover junkie. But even
though I’m about the furthest thing from that kid I was now but I’m more
miserable than I’ve ever been.
Anyway I got off at my stop and he continued uptown but as a got off the
train immediately I felt better and it felt like I was supposed to see him.
I mean this is a kid I used to run with every day that I haven’t seen in 7
or 8 years. Been thinking so much about my past and all the people who are
dead and gone and how things have changed so much in less than 10 years.
Sorry for that ramble. I’m just so all over the place. But I’m doing good.
Gonna go watch the news.
Thanks for everything and tonight I will respond to all.

D H wrote:

On Thursday, July 22, 2004, at 09:33 PM, Hannah Clay wrote:

> Nice words DH, made me cry! What if you suddenly realise there ain’t
> no music in your head no more? And you can’t even be sure what tune
> it used to be?

Hannah

a lot of your story rings true for me too.

Now why is it that I make women cry??? :^) (Not the music in your
head… in your heart!)

I have often found myself thinking the same thing, no music, no joy,
what is it all coming to?

I don’t have any easy answers to that. My first thought was, This girl
needs some Ibogaine! or perhaps a toke off a really good indica joint.
Except that can be a little too revealing if you are strung out (maybe
that would be a good thing, i dunno) But I will say I avoided smoking
weed when I was doing smack and crack, it made me too! aware of myself.
which is the opposite of what I was trying to accomplish.

But if the above are not options, I’d say do something good for your
soul. Take a walk by yourself or with a close friend in a park or on
the beach or near a river or lake or wherever is peaceful near where
you live. Treat yourself to an ice cream or go to a music store and
listen to something you’ve never heard before. write crazy thoughts
down… getting them onto paper or computer screen takes them out of
your head, and allows room for creativity, inspiration and that music
of the heart. Geez, that sounds really fucking corny but it works. It
may take days/weeks of writing/journaling to get the flow…

You are right, finding that music in the heart is important.

for me, it is knowing that at the deepest core level, I am a good
person, a pure soul, no matter what the head tells me, or anyone else,
for that matter. Undoubtedly Ibogaine made me ! aware of this, before Ibo
I was just going thru the motions, and kept returning to dope no matter
how hard I tried, or what treatment I did.

But ultimately, getting off the shit will make your life
tremendously… better. Or different anyhow. I don’t recall hearing any
music in my heart when I was using. The only thing I heard was chaotic
noise.

> Hey, on the opiate detox site I use 2 people posted that you shouldn’t
> take Ibogaine if you’re a woman-its dangerous! Where on earth did
> they get that from?

I do remember reading this along time ago, back in 1996-7. I think it
stems from the fact that a woman died while on Ibogaine in Europe back
then, but I don’t know of any science or statistics that support this.

Howard?

Peace,

_.dh

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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] mcorcoran
Date: July 23, 2004 at 7:45:48 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

i want to talk to you before I leave. call me or I’ll call you.  -M. 8673-504-719

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
“your so brave”
LOL.
Seriously brave guy, I am excited for you.
I for one am glad you surviced that cocaine incident- god damn but I
remember that feeling of fear so well, that absolute terror telling someone,
“hey, go get help, I’m going to die,” and watching them not move, not get
up, not do anything at all but sit there as the huge bugs began crawling
around my face and body, so big I could feel them crunching in my fingers as
I yanked them from my face but couldn’t hear the pop as the strobe light was
too loud in my ears and I couldn’t see the damn things because…well…they
weren’t really there.
Those were the days, eh?
Peace and love to you Mark.
Preston (make sure to fill us in upon your return. DON’T leave those of us
still waiting in the lurch, PLEASE.)

—– Original Message —–
From: mcorcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 6:32 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran

I had this dream last night that my plane was hijacked and I was trying to
sneak in the bathroom to drink my bottles, sick huh? Maybe no more 9-11
report before my Ibo treatment. Oh my God, I’m leavin the day after
tomorrow. I dropped to 80 today. i guess for no other reason than kickin an
80 sounds a lot more doable than a 90 or 100 or 110.
Hey not bad for 4 weeks. But I’m not feelin all that great i have to tell
you. But not terrible either. Excited as hell one minute scared to death the
next. But I guess thats normal. If one more person says “your so brave” I
think I’ll puke. I mean I appreciate th sentiment, I really do. but I don’t
want this to be a thing where I need to be “soo brave” I want this to be a
little easier than everyone seems to think. Not you guys of course. :o) Well
not all of you anyway. I’m feeling empowered these last few days. i guess
looking at the prospect of being free makes me realize that a lot of the
things that I do in my life that I’m not happy with I put up with because in
one way or another because if I didn’t it would make my use that much more
difficult. Hate my job, but there is not much chance that I could make this
kinda money doing something I like, and I need this money for my expensive
program, and my frivolous spending due to drugs and alcohol. My Apartment,
its a nice place but I wouldn’t be breaking my neck trying to pay this
ridiculous rent if it wasn’t so convenient to my program and my drinking
haunts. Oh and Harlem being 15 blocks away has been a plus as well. Ya know,
shit like that. So the idea that I no longer need to live with that fear
that if it all came crumbling down (which it feels like its going to at any
minute) I’d be totally screwed, is really comforting. I walked out of the
office this afternoon and thought to myself that its more likely than not
that I will never step foot in that place again, and instead of that fear I
usually feel when I think I might lose my job and wont have money coming in,
it was a feeling of complete relief. It was like “Thank God I’m finally
closing the door on this miserable part of my life”. I couldn’t stop smiling
all the way home.
Then on the subway I see this guy that I used to run with (Preston you’d
know him) and he looked like death warmed over. “Just came home from doin 90
days on the Island and lookin for dope and coke and headin uptown”. I told
him about the Ibogaine and he didn’t seem to have much thoughts one way or
another. He said that it seemed like I was doing well to begin with then he
began to talk about how fucked up used to be and “do you remember the time
you had that coke OD seize running out of that restaurant on 5th St, cuz the
guy caught you in the bathroom fixing?” I acted like I didn’t know what he
was talkin about but I remember obviously and instead of responding further
I kept asking him to keep his voice down. Actually I remembered it like it
was yesterday after he mentioned it, just slamming the whole 20 because I
was already so freaked out that he had burst in on me… and my legs are
giving out and my arms are starting to go and I know its coming… I turned
around and said “please sir, I’m gonna die” He said something like” yeah you
are gonna die” but before he had a chance I collapsed and bounced around
like a fish out of water. God its crazy because I haven’t been that kinda
cracked out. Now 8 or 9 years later I’m an undercover junkie. But even
though I’m about the furthest thing from that kid I was now but I’m more
miserable than I’ve ever been.
Anyway I got off at my stop and he continued uptown but as a got off the
train immediately I felt better and it felt like I was supposed to see him.
I mean this is a kid I used to run with every day that I haven’t seen in 7
or 8 years. Been thinking so much about my past and all the people who are
dead and gone and how things have changed so much in less than 10 years.
Sorry for that ramble. I’m just so all over the place. But I’m doing good.
Gonna go watch the news.
Thanks for everything and tonight I will respond to all.

D H wrote:

On Thursday, July 22, 2004, at 09:33 PM, Hannah Clay wrote:

> Nice words DH, made me cry! What if you suddenly realise there ain’t
> no music in your head no more? And you can’t even be sure what tune
> it used to be?

Hannah

a lot of your story rings true for me too.

Now why is it that I make women cry??? :^) (Not the music in your
head… in your heart!)

I have often found myself thinking the same thing, no music, no joy,
what is it all coming to?

I don’t have any easy answers to that. My first thought was, This girl
needs some Ibogaine! or perhaps a toke off a really good indica joint.
Except that can be a little too revealing if you are strung out (maybe
that would be a good thing, i dunno) But I will say I avoided smoking
weed when I was doing smack and crack, it made me too! aware of myself.
which is the opposite of what I was trying to accomplish.

But if the above are not options, I’d say do something good for your
soul. Take a walk by yourself or with a close friend in a park or on
the beach or near a river or lake or wherever is peaceful near where
you live. Treat yourself to an ice cream or go to a music store and
listen to something you’ve never heard before. write crazy thoughts
down… getting them onto paper or computer screen takes them out of
your head, and allows room for creativity, inspiration and that music
of the heart. Geez, that sounds really fucking corny but it works. It
may take days/weeks of writing/journaling to get the flow…

You are right, finding that music in the heart is important.

for me, it is knowing that at the deepest core level, I am a good
person, a pure soul, no matter what the head tells me, or anyone else,
for that matter. Undoubtedly Ibogaine made me ! aware of this, before Ibo
I was just going thru the motions, and kept returning to dope no matter
how hard I tried, or what treatment I did.

But ultimately, getting off the shit will make your life
tremendously… better. Or different anyhow. I don’t recall hearing any
music in my heart when I was using. The only thing I heard was chaotic
noise.

> Hey, on the opiate detox site I use 2 people posted that you shouldn’t
> take Ibogaine if you’re a woman-its dangerous! Where on earth did
> they get that from?

I do remember reading this along time ago, back in 1996-7. I think it
stems from the fact that a woman died while on Ibogaine in Europe back
then, but I don’t know of any science or statistics that support this.

Howard?

Peace,

_.dh

Do you Yahoo!?
Vote for the stars of Yahoo!’s next ad campaign!

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran
Date: July 23, 2004 at 7:41:14 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“your so brave”
LOL.
Seriously brave guy, I am excited for you.
I for one am glad you surviced that cocaine incident- god damn but I
remember that feeling of fear so well, that absolute terror telling someone,
“hey, go get help, I’m going to die,” and watching them not move, not get
up, not do anything at all but sit there as the huge bugs began crawling
around my face and body, so big I could feel them crunching in my fingers as
I yanked them from my face but couldn’t hear the pop as the strobe light was
too loud in my ears and I couldn’t see the damn things because…well…they
weren’t really there.
Those were the days, eh?
Peace and love to you Mark.
Preston (make sure to fill us in upon your return. DON’T leave those of us
still waiting in the lurch, PLEASE.)

—– Original Message —–
From: mcorcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 6:32 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran

I had this dream last night that my plane was hijacked and I was trying to
sneak in the bathroom to drink my bottles, sick huh? Maybe no more 9-11
report before my Ibo treatment. Oh my God, I’m leavin the day after
tomorrow. I dropped to 80 today. i guess for no other reason than kickin an
80 sounds a lot more doable than a 90 or 100 or 110.
Hey not bad for 4 weeks. But I’m not feelin all that great i have to tell
you. But not terrible either. Excited as hell one minute scared to death the
next. But I guess thats normal. If one more person says “your so brave” I
think I’ll puke. I mean I appreciate th sentiment, I really do.  but I don’t
want this to be a thing where I need to be “soo brave” I want this to be a
little easier than everyone seems to think. Not you guys of course. :o) Well
not all of you anyway. I’m feeling empowered these last few days. i guess
looking at the prospect of being free makes me realize that  a lot of the
things that I do in my life that I’m not happy with I put up with because in
one way or another because if I didn’t it would make my use that much more
difficult. Hate my job, but there is not much chance that I could make this
kinda money doing something I like, and I need this money for my expensive
program, and my frivolous spending due to drugs and alcohol. My Apartment,
its a nice place but I wouldn’t be breaking my neck trying to pay this
ridiculous rent if it wasn’t so convenient to my program and my drinking
haunts. Oh and Harlem being 15 blocks away has been a plus as well. Ya know,
shit like that. So the idea that I no longer need to live with that fear
that if it all came crumbling down (which it feels like its going to at any
minute)  I’d be totally screwed, is really comforting. I walked out of the
office this afternoon and thought to myself that its more likely than not
that I will never step foot in that place again, and instead of that fear I
usually feel when I think I might lose my job and wont have money coming in,
it was a feeling of  complete relief. It was like “Thank God I’m finally
closing the door on this miserable part of my life”. I couldn’t stop smiling
all the way home.
Then on the subway I see this guy that I used to run with (Preston you’d
know him) and he looked like death warmed over. “Just came home from doin 90
days on the Island and lookin for dope and coke and headin uptown”. I  told
him about the Ibogaine and he didn’t seem to have much thoughts one way or
another. He said that it seemed like I was doing well to begin with then he
began to  talk about how fucked up used to be and “do you remember the time
you had that coke OD seize running out of that restaurant on 5th St, cuz the
guy caught you in the bathroom fixing?” I acted like I didn’t know what he
was talkin about  but I remember obviously and instead of responding further
I kept asking him to keep his voice down. Actually I remembered it like it
was yesterday after he mentioned it, just slamming the whole 20 because I
was already so freaked out that he had burst in on me… and my legs are
giving out and my arms are starting to go and I know its coming… I turned
around and said “please sir, I’m gonna die” He said something like” yeah you
are gonna die” but before he had a chance I collapsed and bounced around
like a fish out of water. God its crazy because I haven’t been that kinda
cracked out. Now 8 or 9 years later I’m an undercover junkie. But even
though I’m about the furthest thing from that kid I was now but I’m more
miserable than I’ve ever been.
Anyway I got off at my stop and he continued uptown but as a got off the
train immediately I felt better and it felt like I was supposed to see him.
I mean this is a kid I used to run with every day that I haven’t seen in 7
or 8 years. Been thinking so much about my past and all the people who are
dead and gone and how things have changed so much in less than 10 years.
Sorry for that ramble. I’m just so all over the place. But I’m doing good.
Gonna go watch the news.
Thanks for everything and tonight I will respond to all.

D H <dave@phantom.com> wrote:

On Thursday, July 22, 2004, at 09:33 PM, Hannah Clay wrote:

Nice words DH, made me cry!  What if you suddenly realise there ain’t
no music in your head no more?  And you can’t even be sure what tune
it used to be?

Hannah

a lot of your story rings true for me too.

Now why is it that I make women cry??? :^) (Not the music in your
head… in your heart!)

I have often found myself thinking the same thing, no music, no joy,
what is it all coming to?

I don’t have any easy answers to that. My first thought was, This girl
needs some Ibogaine! or perhaps a toke off a really good indica joint.
Except that can be a little too revealing if you are strung out (maybe
that would be a good thing, i dunno) But I will say I avoided smoking
weed when I was doing smack and crack, it made me too! aware of myself.
which is the opposite of what I was trying to accomplish.

But if the above are not options, I’d say do something good for your
soul. Take a walk by yourself or with a close friend in a park or on
the beach or near a river or lake or wherever is peaceful near where
you live. Treat yourself to an ice cream or go to a music store and
listen to something you’ve never heard before. write crazy thoughts
down… getting them onto paper or computer screen takes them out of
your head, and allows room for creativity, inspiration and that music
of the heart. Geez, that sounds really fucking corny but it works. It
may take days/weeks of writing/journaling to get the flow…

You are right, finding that music in the heart is important.

for me, it is knowing that at the deepest core level, I am a good
person, a pure soul, no matter what the head tells me, or anyone else,
for that matter. Undoubtedly Ibogaine made me ! aware of this, before Ibo
I was just going thru the motions, and kept returning to dope no matter
how hard I tried, or what treatment I did.

But ultimately, getting off the shit will make your life
tremendously… better. Or different anyhow. I don’t recall hearing any
music in my heart when I was using. The only thing I heard was chaotic
noise.

Hey, on the opiate detox site I use 2 people posted that you shouldn’t
take Ibogaine if you’re a woman-its dangerous!  Where on earth did
they get that from?

I do remember reading this along time ago, back in 1996-7. I think it
stems from the fact that a woman died while on Ibogaine in Europe back
then, but I don’t know of any science or statistics that support this.

Howard?

Peace,

_.dh

Do you Yahoo!?
Vote for the stars of Yahoo!’s next ad campaign!

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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran
Date: July 23, 2004 at 6:32:04 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I had this dream last night that my plane was hijacked and I was trying to sneak in the bathroom to drink my bottles, sick huh? Maybe no more 9-11 report before my Ibo treatment. Oh my God, I’m leavin the day after tomorrow. I dropped to 80 today. i guess for no other reason than kickin an 80 sounds a lot more doable than a 90 or 100 or 110.
Hey not bad for 4 weeks. But I’m not feelin all that great i have to tell you. But not terrible either. Excited as hell one minute scared to death the next. But I guess thats normal. If one more person says “your so brave” I think I’ll puke. I mean I appreciate th sentiment, I really do.  but I don’t want this to be a thing where I need to be “soo brave” I want this to be a little easier than everyone seems to think. Not you guys of course. :o) Well not all of you anyway. I’m feeling empowered these last few days. i guess looking at the prospect of being free makes me realize that  a lot of the things that I do in my life that I’m not happy with I put up with because in one way or another because if I didn’t it would make my use that much more difficult. Hate my job, but there is not much chance that I could make this kinda money doing something I like, and I need this money for my expensive program, and my frivolous spending due to drugs and alcohol. My Apartment, its a nice place but I wouldn’t be breaking my neck trying to pay this ridiculous rent if it wasn’t so convenient to my program and my drinking haunts. Oh and Harlem being 15 blocks away has been a plus as well. Ya know, shit like that. So the idea that I no longer need to live with that fear that if it all came crumbling down (which it feels like its going to at any minute)  I’d be totally screwed, is really comforting. I walked out of the office this afternoon and thought to myself that its more likely than not that I will never step foot in that place again, and instead of that fear I usually feel when I think I might lose my job and wont have money coming in, it was a feeling of  complete relief. It was like “Thank God I’m finally closing the door on this miserable part of my life”. I couldn’t stop smiling all the way home.
Then on the subway I see this guy that I used to run with (Preston you’d know him) and he looked like death warmed over. “Just came home from doin 90 days on the Island and lookin for dope and coke and headin uptown”. I  told him about the Ibogaine and he didn’t seem to have much thoughts one way or another. He said that it seemed like I was doing well to begin with then he began to  talk about how fucked up used to be and “do you remember the time you had that coke OD seize running out of that restaurant on 5th St, cuz the guy caught you in the bathroom fixing?” I acted like I didn’t know what he was talkin about  but I remember obviously and instead of responding further I kept asking him to keep his voice down. Actually I remembered it like it was yesterday after he mentioned it, just slamming the whole 20 because I was already so freaked out that he had burst in on me… and my legs are giving out and my arms are starting to go and I know its coming… I turned around and said “please sir, I’m gonna die” He said something like” yeah you are gonna die” but before he had a chance I collapsed and bounced around like a fish out of water. God its crazy because I haven’t been that kinda cracked out. Now 8 or 9 years later I’m an undercover junkie. But even though I’m about the furthest thing from that kid I was now but I’m more miserable than I’ve ever been.
Anyway I got off at my stop and he continued uptown but as a got off the train immediately I felt better and it felt like I was supposed to see him.  I mean this is a kid I used to run with every day that I haven’t seen in 7 or 8 years. Been thinking so much about my past and all the people who are dead and gone and how things have changed so much in less than 10 years.
Sorry for that ramble. I’m just so all over the place. But I’m doing good. Gonna go watch the news.
Thanks for everything and tonight I will respond to all.

D H <dave@phantom.com> wrote:

On Thursday, July 22, 2004, at 09:33 PM, Hannah Clay wrote:

> Nice words DH, made me cry!  What if you suddenly realise there ain’t
> no music in your head no more?  And you can’t even be sure what tune
> it used to be?

Hannah

a lot of your story rings true for me too.

Now why is it that I make women cry??? :^) (Not the music in your
head… in your heart!)

I have often found myself thinking the same thing, no music, no joy,
what is it all coming to?

I don’t have any easy answers to that. My first thought was, This girl
needs some Ibogaine! or perhaps a toke off a really good indica joint.
Except that can be a little too revealing if you are strung out (maybe
that would be a good thing, i dunno) But I will say I avoided smoking
weed when I was doing smack and crack, it made me too aware of myself.
which is the opposite of what I was trying to accomplish.

But if the above are not options, I’d say do something good for your
soul. Take a walk by yourself or with a close friend in a park or on
the beach or near a river or lake or wherever is peaceful near where
you live. Treat yourself to an ice cream or go to a music store and
listen to something you’ve never heard before. write crazy thoughts
down… getting them onto paper or computer screen takes them out of
your head, and allows room for creativity, inspiration and that music
of the heart. Geez, that sounds really fucking corny but it works. It
may take days/weeks of writing/journaling to get the flow…

You are right, finding that music in the heart is important.

for me, it is knowing that at the deepest core level, I am a good
person, a pure soul, no matter what the head tells me, or anyone else,
for that matter. Undoubtedly Ibogaine made me aware of this, before Ibo
I was just going thru the motions, and kept returning to dope no matter
how hard I tried, or what treatment I did.

But ultimately, getting off the shit will make your life
tremendously… better. Or different anyhow. I don’t recall hearing any
music in my heart when I was using. The only thing I heard was chaotic
noise.

> Hey, on the opiate detox site I use 2 people posted that you shouldn’t
> take Ibogaine if you’re a woman-its dangerous!  Where on earth did
> they get that from?

I do remember reading this along time ago, back in 1996-7. I think it
stems from the fact that a woman died while on Ibogaine in Europe back
then, but I don’t know of any science or statistics that support this.

Howard?

Peace,

_.dh

Do you Yahoo!?
Vote for the stars of Yahoo!’s next ad campaign!

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fwd: A Picture Share!
Date: July 23, 2004 at 5:06:36 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

And Sara, you have a great smile and happy eyes.
Love this photos too.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 3:38 PM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Fwd: A Picture Share!

And this is my picture.

Sara

Van: Sapphirestardus@aol.com [mailto:Sapphirestardus@aol.com]
Verzonden: woensdag 21 juli 2004 21:36
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [ibogaine] Fwd: A Picture Share!

Mark, the picture is fine.

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Pikturez = thousand WordS
Date: July 23, 2004 at 5:00:28 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

and this one too- wow Carla, you look so…bright, healthy lit up, alive,
fresh, happy.
Very nice to see- and ignore the grumpy type (Curtis you grump you) who
doesn’t like to see the photos.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Carla Barnes” <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 7:53 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Pikturez = thousand WordS

You look alot like I thought you might. Always
wondered what you looked like, Patrick I’ve seen
photos and video of for years. Both of you are what I
used to spend my life dating, cute, disturbed,
artistic psycho guys 😉 the more strung out and self
hating the better 😉 😉 You too Preston, hi! 😉

Hi everyone, hi to all the police reading this list
too! I think this should motivate me really hard not
to relapse 😉

Carla B

— D H <dave@phantom.com> wrote:
this is me:

BeFoRe:  2 days post ibo dumping methadone in
Italian toilet 1998

aFtEr: grimacing with Hawaiian Gods 2003

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – Send 10MB messages!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Pikturez = thousand WordS
Date: July 23, 2004 at 4:59:14 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

awesome photos Dave, Don’t know how I didn’t see these until now…somehow
all my mail was suddenly marked “read” and I hadn’t actually “read” it all
yet. I think I fell asleep after being up all night djing and smoking pot
and taking pain meds and..well…nodding off about describes it.
Hmmm.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “D H” <dave@phantom.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 7:07 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Pikturez = thousand WordS

this is me:

BeFoRe:  2 days post ibo dumping methadone in Italian toilet 1998

aFtEr: grimacing with Hawaiian Gods 2003

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route you take it
Date: July 23, 2004 at 4:42:16 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jim Hadey >What I want to know if it is in Subutex, <

According to the flier I have in my hands right now from the company, no it
is not in Subutex- that contains “only the medicine burprenorphine” while
Suboxone contines both bup and naloxone. Both Subutex and Suboxone can cause
fairly severe side effects if the flier is any indication.
And, it IS NOT GOOD TO TAKE IF YOU HAVE HEP C!!!!!
Peace,
Preston

.
—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 2:50 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route
you take it

Hi All,

I know the difference between Naloxone and Naltrexone, Narcan (Naloxone) is
shorter acting and is shot up.  What I want to know if you take it via mouth
will it make you sick?

They put it it Talwin (Narcon or Naloxone) to stop people from shooting it
up.  What I want to know if it is in Subutex, which it is,  will it also
make you sick by taking it via mouth or under the tongue?  It is not suppose
to.  But I would like to be sure.  Like did bupe or Subutex cause anyone to
go into w/d by placing it under the tongue?  I probably will not use smack
for the next few days but am taking quite a bit of Lortab.

Thanks for any help,

– JIM

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Naloxone is administered intravenously and lasts for approximately 20
minutes.<

This is Narcan, right, this Naloxone?

No matter what name they use it is still some bad shit for addicts!<
Other than for the fa ct it can and has saved a number of lives, I agree in
that Narcan is not a pleasent drug to be given as an opiate addict, or so
I’ve been lead to believe from  seeing it given right in front of me- a few
here may even be able to give us even more first hand accounts that I have
in the following. I’ve probably posted this before, but so what? There are a
few newish subscribers who may not have seen this, so I post it again, at
risk of repeating myself and in hopes of entertaining some of you:
snip-
“What’s that, Narcan?” Thomas asks.
“That’s right,” says the paramedic. “He’s a lucky guy.” He shoots the stuff
into Void’s upper arm. “Thirty seconds, just wait. This stuff is magic.”
Thomas doesn’t think Void is going to feel so lucky when he wakes up. Yeah,
he’s alive, but he’d just gotten straight. Now he’s going to be really sick.
<
end snip-
Full story:
http://www.drugwar.com/PrestonPeetIndex.shtm
Narcan-
Bringing the Dead Back to Life
chapter 20 of “Something in the Way”
copyright 2001
by Preston Peet

posted Halloween, 2002
“Why is it whenever I’m broke they’re everywhere, but when I’ve got cash, I
can’t find anyone?”
“Yeah well, at least you’ve got money. All I got are these two lousy videos.
Oh, hold on a second.”
Thomas watches his friend Void run over to a couple of fences standing by
St. Marks, and 2nd Ave., and try to sell them the videotapes, to no avail.
Thomas was exiting a building at the corner of Lafayette and Houston Streets
after selling some freshly-stolen Shitake mushrooms as Magic mushrooms,
calling them “Colorado Gold Tops.” Some guys he’d approached on their way to
a club near Fourteenth St. the night before had given him a business card
with their work number on it, telling him to call after Thomas had mentioned
he could get really good mushrooms. As soon as he’d woken up this morning,
he’d run to a phone and given them a call. Setting up the deal had been
little trouble. Thomas plays to his victims’ greed, offering them deals
better than any they’ll know of anywhere, yet not so much better that the
vics get suspicious. He depends on this kind of scam for almost his entire
livelihood. From ! necessity he’s gotten very good at separating people from
their money.
Stepping out the office building’s front door, flush with the feeling of
success and a good sum of cash, Thomas’ mind was focused on going to score.
He’d not seen Void standing there until he’d literally bumped into him.
“Hey, what’s up Void? ‘Scuse me, I’m on a mission. Didn’t see you.” Void
seemed to be just standing there. “What are you doing, spanging?”
“Oh no, I need to sell these movies.” Void held out the films, still in
their new, shrink-wrapped boxes. “I’m really sick. I need to get straight,
bad. I’m gonna come with you, ’cause hopefully by the time you score, I’ll
have sold these.”
Thomas hadn’t been so sure of that, and he’s still not too sure, but he
likes Void. Thomas decides that he’ll help get him straight if Void can’t
sell the videos. If it comes to that. Thomas doesn’t say this aloud, as
there’s the chance Void’ll pull it off, but won’t try as hard if he thinks
he’s already covered.
Everyone on the street has their own scam, their own game they play to get
what they need. It’s deadly real to the people playing, never feeling much
like a game to Thomas anymore. He just happens to make a bit more money than
most with his particular scam, enabling him to build a bigger habit.
Void rejoins him. They continue walking down St. Marks to Tompkins Sq.,
heading through to the opposite side of the park. Unbelievably, none of the
spots they pass are open. There’s nobody out doing any selling. Void doesn’t
mind as he hasn’t sold the tapes yet, but Thomas is pissed. There’d been
dealers out and about not one hour before as he’d been on his way to sell
the shrooms. Now there’s no one.
“What about 13th Street? Rush?” Void asks. “How’s that been?”
“It hasn’t been so good the last few days, garbage really.” Thomas answers.
“I don’t know if they’re even open yet. It’s only what, Two o’clock, right?”
Thomas doesn’t want to walk over to 13th Street. Walking is beginning to be
a chore. He can feel the lack of dope in him, draining his energy reserves.
Void is even worse off, but therefore more willing to put the effort into
going the four blocks out of the way. There’s nothing for it except to go
along, and Thomas does, grudgingly.
They head straight up 10th St. to 1st Ave., and turn right. At 12th, one
block before they reach the spot, Void unloads the two tapes to someone at
an incense table, making himself the ten bucks he needs for a bag. Thomas is
amazed. He hadn’t expected Void to do it, not after failing the entire walk.
“Void, why don’t you go get the dope while I go around the block and score
some coke? We’ll meet at the Polish restaurant, Christine’s, between 12th
and 13th Streets.”
“Sure, how many do you want?”
“Get me four,” Thomas says handing him forty dollars. “Hurry up.”
Normally he wouldn’t trust someone with his cash, having been burned a
number of times before, but he knows Void pretty well. The two of them are
as close to being friends as people can get and still be strung out, and
besides, if Void knows he’s going to get some coke, he’ll be there. He’s a
fiend who would rather get both.
Like his now-dead friend Dan had been once, Void is another rare find.
The coke store Thomas goes to is on 12th St., just across Ave. A. It only
takes him 5 minutes to get there, conduct his business, and get back to
Christine’s. He arrives almost the same moment as Void, and they walk in
together.
Neither of them look too respectable. The restaurant staff eye them both
with suspicion and just a bit of revulsion, but no one stops them from
taking a seat at a table in the dining area.
“Let me go first, man,” Void says as soon as they are seated. “I’m really
sick. I’m going to throw up right here if I don’t do a shot soon.”
It’s not a lot different for Thomas, who can feel his stomach clenching and
bubbling in anticipation. But he knows Void is in far worse shape so agrees
to wait at the table for Void to go to the toilet first. One of them has to
wait with all their bags while the other gets straight.
“Yeah, all right already, just go.”
“The guy said this is a new batch, that it’s very good, and strong,” Void
says under his breath.
“Yeah, they always say that it’s the best. You know that. It’d be nice
though if it’s better than what they’ve had recently, that’s for sure.”
Thomas isn’t too hopeful. As long as it gets him straight, he doesn’t much
care. “Hurry up. Don’t take forever, ’cause I want to go too.”
“Can I have some coke for my shot?” Void asks, still not moving.
“Hell no. I’ll give you some later, but if you do it now, I’ll be out here
an hour waiting for you. Fuck that.” There’s no anger in his voice, it’s
just that Thomas knows how it is on coke sometimes. “I promise, I’ll give
you some a little later. Now go, hurry up.”
Void goes to the bathroom, leaving Thomas at the table. A waitress comes
over right after Void walks away, so to keep the place happy, and to feed
the both of them a little something, Thomas orders two soups and coffees. By
the time Void comes back to the table, Thomas is almost finished with his
soup and very impatient.
“About fucking time, Void.” Thomas snarls as Void tries to pull out a chair.
He misjudges the distance, pulls it too far, then sits in such a way as to
send both it and himself crashing to the floor.
Thomas can’t help it, and laughs out loud. Still chuckling, he bends down
and gives Void a hand up. As he lifts, he notices Void is not responding
well, that his eyes are way fucked up, glassy and very pinned.
“Hey, you’re not going to nod here at the table and get us thrown out, are
you?” He watches Void struggling to keep his eyes open. “You ok?”
“Oh, come on man, you know me, I’m good. Go ahead.” Void slurs out as he
picks up his coffee, sloshing a third of it onto the table.
Thomas can’t wait any longer. He has to trust that Void will be OK, and goes
to take his turn. The toilet stalls are well used by regular customers of
the dope spot around the corner. Thomas is frequently one of those. He knows
the restaurant well, knows he should have time to relax and go slow without
having a manager in too quickly. He gets out his stuff and mixes up a shot
in short order. Right as he has the vein, just about to boot, there comes a
firm knock on the door of the stall, then an older man’s heavily accented
voice.
“Hey! That your friend at the table? He dead! We call Police, they coming
now. You hurry!”
Thomas pushes in the shot before he realizes what the old guy said. Then as
the drugs take hold the old guy’s words sink in, giving Thomas the
simultaneous rush of the incredibly strong drugs and the disbelief and shock
at what’s just been said to him through the closed toilet stall door. The
coke rush barely tops the dope. The dealer was telling Void the truth,
because the dope feels stronger than any he’s yet found in NYC. Fast as he
can in the shape he’s in, he puts everything away and cleans himself up. He
wants to be out of the toilet before the cops arrive, not wanting any more
attention than he’s already going to have with a dead, overdosed friend on
the floor. That’s already more than he wants.
He gets to the table as quickly as he can. Sure enough, Void is on the
floor, half under the table, not moving. Thomas crouches down and shakes
him. “Wake the hell up man, the cops are coming.” This has absolutely no
effect, so he tries smacking him on the cheeks, one after the other. Again
there’s nothing. Void’s tattooed face and lips are by now turning a weirder
shade of blue, and Thomas can’t find any sign of breathing or a pulse. He
pushes the table back, pulls Void’s body so he’s lying stretched out on his
back, and considers giving him mouth to mouth resuscitation or even CPR.
Luckily he doesn’t have to as he’s abruptly pushed aside by two eager
paramedics, all bustle and business.
“Overdose,” says the one who pushed Thomas. “What’d he take?”
“He told me he was sick, and was going to score a bag. I think he only did
one. That’s all the money he had, ten bucks.” Thomas is thinking that when
the coke he himself shot in that speedball wears off, he’s also going to be
very stoned, and doesn’t want to be dealing with the police. They’d arrived
with the paramedics, and now they start to question him.
“Where’d he get it? You got any yourself, kid?” One bored cop asks.
“I don’t know where he got it, and no, I don’t.” Thomas sees no need for
complete honesty here.
Down on the floor the paramedics aren’t having any more luck than had Thomas
in getting Void to respond. One of them reaches into the box of medical
supplies he’d brought in, and starts rummaging around.
“His girlfriend lives right across the street. I’m going to run see if she’s
there, because I’m not going to the hospital with him. She should know
anyway.” The cops agree it’s a good idea, so Thomas runs to her apartment.
Finding her home, he quickly convinces her to come with him, explaining
along the way what’s going on.
By the time they get back to the restaurant, the paramedic is holding a
loaded hypodermic in his hand, preparing to administer it to Void.
“What’s that, Narcan?” Thomas asks.
“That’s right,” says the paramedic. “He’s a lucky guy.” He shoots the stuff
into Void’s upper arm. “Thirty seconds, just wait. This stuff is magic.”
Thomas doesn’t think Void is going to feel so lucky when he wakes up. Yeah,
he’s alive, but he’d just gotten straight. Now he’s going to be really sick.
Narcan completely clears the system of any vestige of the drug and it’s
effects, at least temporarily, leaving the patient agonizingly ill.
After exactly thirty seconds, Void’s eyes shoot open. The first words out of
his mouth are, “I’m all right, I’m all right.” He’s not even aware he’s been
dead, at least not immediately, but confusion is evident on his face. It’s
obvious something is wrong. He looks up at the paramedics and cops. “Oh
shit.”
“Just lie there for a minute, kid. Relax.” One of the paramedics tells Void,
who’s struggling to get to his feet. “Give it a minute, you just had a close
call.”
“So now what?” Thomas interrupts one of the cops, who’s making disparaging
remarks about junkies and losers to his partner. “Is he going to be OK?”
“Yeah, he’ll be fine. They’ve got to take him in to the hospital ’cause they
gave him a shot. It’s the law. They work on you, you ride with them.” The
cop doesn’t look at Thomas, so Thomas doesn’t say anything else.
Void is helped out of the door by the paramedics. Void’s girlfriend goes
with him. Thomas can hear her soothing Void, giving comfort, and almost feel
s a pang of jealousy. He can’t imagine his girlfiend acting thus for him.
The cops are speaking with the restaurant staff, writing in their little
black books and ignoring him, so Thomas decides it’s definitely time for him
to go.
No one pays him any mind as he picks up his bag and coat, and walks out the
front door onto 1st Ave.
“Damn I’m glad I’m not Void right now,” he thinks, watching the ambulance
drive away. Narcan does not look like a fun experience. If Void had been in
a park somewhere, he wouldn’t have had to go through that. Most probably he
would have simply slept through the dope, then woken up tomorrow sick, ready
to start again. Which is of course exactly what’s going to happen. Thomas
knows he’ll bump into Void again soon, sick as hell out looking for drugs.
This close call won’t change a thing.
It doesn’t occur to Thomas how close he himself came to lying on the floor
being treated by the paramedics.
Thomas shakes his head, then heads to Tompkins Square to do some more of his
own stuff, stopping along the way to tell another couple of fiends he knows
that “Rush is damned good today.”

Tompkins Sq. Park
Peace all,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 11:22 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route you
take it

Jim, I did some research and my findings are as follows…
What is the difference between naltrexone and naloxone?
Functionally, they are the same type of drug. They compete with heroin at
the receptor level and block the effect of heroin. Naloxone is administered
intravenously and lasts for approximately 20 minutes. Naltrexone is
administered orally (pill form) and can last for 1 to 2 days.
No  matter what name they use it is still some bad shit for addicts!
They are now using Naltrexone in alcoholism treatment!
Callie

ATTACHMENT part 2 image/jpeg name=shooter2.jpg

ATTACHMENT part 3 image/jpeg name=tompkinstable2.JPG

__________________________________________________
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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] List Annoucement
Date: July 23, 2004 at 4:04:11 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

<Handing Shiny Gold Star to Mr. Gamma>: Dave, you’re in charge of everything.  If you experience any problems, Jon Freedlander will help you untangle and solve ALL PROBLEMS that afflict the list in particular, and humanity as a whole.  Whoopsie, no, wait, I forget to make Jon a shell account.  C’est La’vie, shit happens.

Gee Thanks. I am like, so there. Like especially the spontaneous healing part.

I think this calls for a spinning Chaos Mandala vortexing out of everyones crown chakra.

_.dh

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] (ot)acetaminophen (a-seat-a-MIN-oh-fen)
Date: July 23, 2004 at 3:27:31 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I found Ibuprofen the best pain killer for me after dental work. I have had almost all my teeth pulled and have had many abscessed, painful teeth.
I do not get any pain relief from acetiminophen(tylenol). In fact, I think anyone with hepC or other liver troubles should steer clear of Tylenol all together.
Good old fashioned plain aspirin is an anti-inflammatory and is a great pain killer too. It is tough on your stomach and you can’t take it if you are on Coumadin(Warfarin) or Heparin blood thinning therapy.
One of the hardest lessons I have had to learn is that sometimes we have pain!! You can’t stop all pains. We have to feel pain at times. That was hard for me to learn because I was a child in the sixties and my Mom shoved a baby aspirin in our mouths everytime we complained! We witnessed Mom and Aunts taking ‘nerve’ pills, diet pills, sleeping pills, and hormones! I just thought everybody took lots of pills! It was the topic of conversation when the women got together over coffee! lol!
I agree with Sarah in regard to the ‘natural’ pain killers in our brain. It is the best pain relief but we gotta hurt first!
Callie

From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route you take it
Date: July 23, 2004 at 3:09:12 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi All,

Sorry, it is Suboxone that has Narcan in it.  There was one guy on here who said something to the effect that he did not like it, he took it while on methadone.  And I was wondering if it was because of the Narcan in it and if Subutex would be better.  However, the doc will make that decision.  They seldom like it when patients make suggestions.  I just want to be sure that when I put the pill under my tongue that I don’t go through w/d which I am sure you can all relate to.

Thanks for any help,  Best to ya all

–   JIM

Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi All,

I know the difference between Naloxone and Naltrexone, Narcan (Naloxone) is shorter acting and is shot up.  What I want to know if you take it via mouth will it make you sick?

They put it it Talwin (Narcon or Naloxone) to stop people from shooting it up.  What I want to know if it is in Subutex, which it is,  will it also make you sick by taking it via mouth or under the tongue?  It is not suppose to.  But I would like to be sure.  Like did bupe or Subutex cause anyone to go into w/d by placing it under the tongue?  I probably will not use smack for the next few days but am taking quite a bit of Lortab.

Thanks for any help,

– JIM

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>Naloxone is administered intravenously and lasts for approximately 20 minutes.<

This is Narcan, right, this Naloxone?

>No matter what name they use it is still some bad shit for addicts!<
Other than for the fa ct it can and has saved a number of lives, I agree in that Narcan is not a pleasent drug to be given as an opiate addict, or so I’ve been lead to believe from  seeing it given right in front of me- a few here may even be able to give us even more first hand accounts that I have in the following. I’ve probably posted this before, but so what? There are a few newish subscribers who may not have seen this, so I post it again, at risk of repeating myself and in hopes of entertaining some of you:
snip-
>“What’s that, Narcan?” Thomas asks.
“That’s right,” says the paramedic. “He’s a lucky guy.” He shoots the stuff into Void’s upper arm. “Thirty seconds, just wait. This stuff is magic.”
Thomas doesn’t think Void is going to feel so lucky when he wakes up. Yeah, he’s alive, but he’d just gotten straight. Now he’s going to be really sick. <
end snip-
Full story:
http://www.drugwar.com/PrestonPeetIndex.shtm
Narcan- 
Bringing the Dead Back to Life
chapter 20 of “Something in the Way”
copyright 2001
by Preston Peet

posted Halloween, 2002

“Why is it whenever I’m broke they’re everywhere, but when I’ve got cash, I can’t find anyone?”
“Yeah well, at least you’ve got money. All I got are these two lousy videos. Oh, hold on a second.”
Thomas watches his friend Void run over to a couple of fences standing by St. Marks, and 2nd Ave., and try to sell them the videotapes, to no avail.
Thomas was exiting a building at the corner of Lafayette and Houston Streets after selling some freshly-stolen Shitake mushrooms as Magic mushrooms, calling them “Colorado Gold Tops.” Some guys he’d approached on their way to a club near Fourteenth St. the night before had given him a business card with their work number on it, telling him to call after Thomas had mentioned he could get really good mushrooms. As soon as he’d woken up this morning, he’d run to a phone and given them a call. Setting up the deal had been little trouble. Thomas plays to his victims’ greed, offering them deals better than any they’ll know of anywhere, yet not so much better that the vics get suspicious. He depends on this kind of scam for almost his entire livelihood. From necessity he’s gotten very good at separating people from their money.
Stepping out the office building’s front door, flush with the feeling of success and a good sum of cash, Thomas’ mind was focused on going to score. He’d not seen Void standing there until he’d literally bumped into him.
“Hey, what’s up Void? ‘Scuse me, I’m on a mission. Didn’t see you.” Void seemed to be just standing there. “What are you doing, spanging?”
“Oh no, I need to sell these movies.” Void held out the films, still in their new, shrink-wrapped boxes. “I’m really sick. I need to get straight, bad. I’m gonna come with you, ‘cause hopefully by the time you score, I’ll have sold these.”
Thomas hadn’t been so sure of that, and he’s still not too sure, but he likes Void. Thomas decides that he’ll help get him straight if Void can’t sell the videos. If it comes to that. Thomas doesn’t say this aloud, as there’s the chance Void’ll pull it off, but won’t try as hard if he thinks he’s already covered.
Everyone on the street has their own scam, their own game they play to get what they need. It’s deadly real to the people playing, never feeling much like a game to Thomas anymore. He just happens to make a bit more money than most with his particular scam, enabling him to build a bigger habit.
Void rejoins him. They continue walking down St. Marks to Tompkins Sq., heading through to the opposite side of the park. Unbelievably, none of the spots they pass are open. There’s nobody out doing any selling. Void doesn’t mind as he hasn’t sold the tapes yet, but Thomas is pissed. There’d been dealers out and about not one hour before as he’d been on his way to sell the shrooms. Now there’s no one.
“What about 13th Street? Rush?” Void asks. “How’s that been?”
“It hasn’t been so good the last few days, garbage really.” Thomas answers. “I don’t know if they’re even open yet. It’s only what, Two o’clock, right?”
Thomas doesn’t want to walk over to 13th Street. Walking is beginning to be a chore. He can feel the lack of dope in him, draining his energy reserves. Void is even worse off, but therefore more willing to put the effort into going the four blocks out of the way. There’s nothing for it except to go along, and Thomas does, grudgingly.
They head straight up 10th St. to 1st Ave., and turn right. At 12th, one block before they reach the spot, Void unloads the two tapes to someone at an incense table, making himself the ten bucks he needs for a bag. Thomas is amazed. He hadn’t expected Void to do it, not after failing the entire walk.
“Void, why don’t you go get the dope while I go around the block and score some coke? We’ll meet at the Polish restaurant, Christine’s, between 12th and 13th Streets.”
“Sure, how many do you want?”
“Get me four,” Thomas says handing him forty dollars. “Hurry up.”
Normally he wouldn’t trust someone with his cash, having been burned a number of times before, but he knows Void pretty well. The two of them are as close to being friends as people can get and still be strung out, and besides, if Void knows he’s going to get some coke, he’ll be there. He’s a fiend who would rather get both.
Like his now-dead friend Dan had been once, Void is another rare find.
The coke store Thomas goes to is on 12th St., just across Ave. A. It only takes him 5 minutes to get there, conduct his business, and get back to Christine’s. He arrives almost the same moment as Void, and they walk in together.
Neither of them look too respectable. The restaurant staff eye them both with suspicion and just a bit of revulsion, but no one stops them from taking a seat at a table in the dining area.
“Let me go first, man,” Void says as soon as they are seated. “I’m really sick. I’m going to throw up right here if I don’t do a shot soon.”
It’s not a lot different for Thomas, who can feel his stomach clenching and bubbling in anticipation. But he knows Void is in far worse shape so agrees to wait at the table for Void to go to the toilet first. One of them has to wait with all their bags while the other gets straight.
“Yeah, all right already, just go.”
“The guy said this is a new batch, that it’s very good, and strong,” Void says under his breath.
“Yeah, they always say that it’s the best. You know that. It’d be nice though if it’s better than what they’ve had recently, that’s for sure.” Thomas isn’t too hopeful. As long as it gets him straight, he doesn’t much care. “Hurry up. Don’t take forever, ‘cause I want to go too.”
“Can I have some coke for my shot?” Void asks, still not moving.
“Hell no. I’ll give you some later, but if you do it now, I’ll be out here an hour waiting for you. Fuck that.” There’s no anger in his voice, it’s just that Thomas knows how it is on coke sometimes. “I promise, I’ll give you some a little later. Now go, hurry up.”
Void goes to the bathroom, leaving Thomas at the table. A waitress comes over right after Void walks away, so to keep the place happy, and to feed the both of them a little something, Thomas orders two soups and coffees. By the time Void comes back to the table, Thomas is almost finished with his soup and very impatient.
“About fucking time, Void.” Thomas snarls as Void tries to pull out a chair. He misjudges the distance, pulls it too far, then sits in such a way as to send both it and himself crashing to the floor.
Thomas can’t help it, and laughs out loud. Still chuckling, he bends down and gives Void a hand up. As he lifts, he notices Void is not responding well, that his eyes are way fucked up, glassy and very pinned.
“Hey, you’re not going to nod here at the table and get us thrown out, are you?” He watches Void struggling to keep his eyes open. “You ok?”
“Oh, come on man, you know me, I’m good. Go ahead.” Void slurs out as he picks up his coffee, sloshing a third of it onto the table.
Thomas can’t wait any longer. He has to trust that Void will be OK, and goes to take his turn. The toilet stalls are well used by regular customers of the dope spot around the corner. Thomas is frequently one of those. He knows the restaurant well, knows he should have time to relax and go slow without having a manager in too quickly. He gets out his stuff and mixes up a shot in short order. Right as he has the vein, just about to boot, there comes a firm knock on the door of the stall, then an older man’s heavily accented voice.
“Hey! That your friend at the table? He dead! We call Police, they coming now. You hurry!”
Thomas pushes in the shot before he realizes what the old guy said. Then as the drugs take hold the old guy’s words sink in, giving Thomas the simultaneous rush of the incredibly strong drugs and the disbelief and shock at what’s just been said to him through the closed toilet stall door. The coke rush barely tops the dope. The dealer was telling Void the truth, because the dope feels stronger than any he’s yet found in NYC. Fast as he can in the shape he’s in, he puts everything away and cleans himself up. He wants to be out of the toilet before the cops arrive, not wanting any more attention than he’s already going to have with a dead, overdosed friend on the floor. That’s already more than he wants.
He gets to the table as quickly as he can. Sure enough, Void is on the floor, half under the table, not moving. Thomas crouches down and shakes him. “Wake the hell up man, the cops are coming.” This has absolutely no effect, so he tries smacking him on the cheeks, one after the other. Again there’s nothing. Void’s tattooed face and lips are by now turning a weirder shade of blue, and Thomas can’t find any sign of breathing or a pulse. He pushes the table back, pulls Void’s body so he’s lying stretched out on his back, and considers giving him mouth to mouth resuscitation or even CPR. Luckily he doesn’t have to as he’s abruptly pushed aside by two eager paramedics, all bustle and business.
“Overdose,” says the one who pushed Thomas. “What’d he take?”
“He told me he was sick, and was going to score a bag. I think he only did one. That’s all the money he had, ten bucks.” Thomas is thinking that when the coke he himself shot in that speedball wears off, he’s also going to be very stoned, and doesn’t want to be dealing with the police. They’d arrived with the paramedics, and now they start to question him.
“Where’d he get it? You got any yourself, kid?” One bored cop asks.
“I don’t know where he got it, and no, I don’t.” Thomas sees no need for complete honesty here.
Down on the floor the paramedics aren’t having any more luck than had Thomas in getting Void to respond. One of them reaches into the box of medical supplies he’d brought in, and starts rummaging around.
“His girlfriend lives right across the street. I’m going to run see if she’s there, because I’m not going to the hospital with him. She should know anyway.” The cops agree it’s a good idea, so Thomas runs to her apartment. Finding her home, he quickly convinces her to come with him, explaining along the way what’s going on.
By the time they get back to the restaurant, the paramedic is holding a loaded hypodermic in his hand, preparing to administer it to Void.
“What’s that, Narcan?” Thomas asks.
“That’s right,” says the paramedic. “He’s a lucky guy.” He shoots the stuff into Void’s upper arm. “Thirty seconds, just wait. This stuff is magic.”
Thomas doesn’t think Void is going to feel so lucky when he wakes up. Yeah, he’s alive, but he’d just gotten straight. Now he’s going to be really sick. Narcan completely clears the system of any vestige of the drug and it’s effects, at least temporarily, leaving the patient agonizingly ill.
After exactly thirty seconds, Void’s eyes shoot open. The first words out of his mouth are, “I’m all right, I’m all right.” He’s not even aware he’s been dead, at least not immediately, but confusion is evident on his face. It’s obvious something is wrong. He looks up at the paramedics and cops. “Oh shit.”
“Just lie there for a minute, kid. Relax.” One of the paramedics tells Void, who’s struggling to get to his feet. “Give it a minute, you just had a close call.”
“So now what?” Thomas interrupts one of the cops, who’s making disparaging remarks about junkies and losers to his partner. “Is he going to be OK?”
“Yeah, he’ll be fine. They’ve got to take him in to the hospital ‘cause they gave him a shot. It’s the law. They work on you, you ride with them.” The cop doesn’t look at Thomas, so Thomas doesn’t say anything else.
Void is helped out of the door by the paramedics. Void’s girlfriend goes with him. Thomas can hear her soothing Void, giving comfort, and almost feels a pang of jealousy. He can’t imagine his girlfiend acting thus for him. The cops are speaking with the restaurant staff, writing in their little black books and ignoring him, so Thomas decides it’s definitely time for him to go.
No one pays him any mind as he picks up his bag and coat, and walks out the front door onto 1st Ave.
“Damn I’m glad I’m not Void right now,” he thinks, watching the ambulance drive away. Narcan does not look like a fun experience. If Void had been in a park somewhere, he wouldn’t have had to go through that. Most probably he would have simply slept through the dope, then woken up tomorrow sick, ready to start again. Which is of course exactly what’s going to happen. Thomas knows he’ll bump into Void again soon, sick as hell out looking for drugs. This close call won’t change a thing.
It doesn’t occur to Thomas how close he himself came to lying on the floor being treated by the paramedics.
Thomas shakes his head, then heads to Tompkins Square to do some more of his own stuff, stopping along the way to tell another couple of fiends he knows that “Rush is damned good today.”
Tompkins Sq. Park
Peace all,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 11:22 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route you take it

Jim, I did some research and my findings are as follows…
What is the difference between naltrexone and naloxone?
Functionally, they are the same type of drug. They compete with heroin at the receptor level and block the effect of heroin. Naloxone is administered intravenously and lasts for approximately 20 minutes. Naltrexone is administered orally (pill form) and can last for 1 to 2 days.
No  matter what name they use it is still some bad shit for addicts!
They are now using Naltrexone in alcoholism treatment!
Callie

> ATTACHMENT part 2 image/jpeg name=shooter2.jpg

> ATTACHMENT part 3 image/jpeg name=tompkinstable2.JPG
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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran
Date: July 23, 2004 at 3:09:40 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Thursday, July 22, 2004, at 09:33 PM, Hannah Clay wrote:

Nice words DH, made me cry!  What if you suddenly realise there ain’t no music in your head no more?  And you can’t even be sure what tune it used to be?

Hannah,

a lot of your story rings true for me too.

Now why is it that I make women cry???  :^)  (Not the music in your head… in your heart!)

I have often found myself thinking the same thing, no music, no joy, what is it all coming to?

I don’t have any easy answers to that. My first thought was, This girl needs some Ibogaine! or perhaps a toke off a really good indica joint. Except that can be a little too revealing if you are strung out (maybe that would be a good thing, i dunno) But I will say I avoided smoking weed when I was doing smack and crack, it made me too aware of myself. which is the opposite of what I was trying to accomplish.

But if the above are not options, I’d say do something good for your soul. Take a walk by yourself or with a close friend in a park or on the beach or near a river or lake or wherever is peaceful near where you live. Treat yourself to an ice cream or go to a music store and listen to something you’ve never heard before. write crazy thoughts down… getting them onto paper or computer screen takes them out of your head, and allows room for creativity, inspiration and that music of the heart. Geez, that sounds really fucking corny but it works. It may take days/weeks of writing/journaling to get the flow…

You are right, finding that music in the heart is important.

for me, it is knowing that at the deepest core level, I am a good person, a pure soul, no matter what the head tells me, or anyone else, for that matter. Undoubtedly Ibogaine made me aware of this, before Ibo I was just going thru the motions, and kept returning to dope no matter how hard I tried, or what treatment I did.

But ultimately, getting off the shit will make your life tremendously… better. Or different anyhow. I don’t recall hearing any music in my heart when I was using. The only thing I heard was chaotic noise.

Hey, on the opiate detox site I use 2 people posted that you shouldn’t take Ibogaine if you’re a woman-its dangerous!  Where on earth did they get that from?

I do remember reading this along time ago, back in 1996-7. I think it stems from the fact that a woman died while on Ibogaine in Europe back then, but I don’t know of any science or statistics that support this.

Howard?

Peace,

_.dh

From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route you take it
Date: July 23, 2004 at 2:50:42 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi All,

I know the difference between Naloxone and Naltrexone, Narcan (Naloxone) is shorter acting and is shot up.  What I want to know if you take it via mouth will it make you sick?

They put it it Talwin (Narcon or Naloxone) to stop people from shooting it up.  What I want to know if it is in Subutex, which it is,  will it also make you sick by taking it via mouth or under the tongue?  It is not suppose to.  But I would like to be sure.  Like did bupe or Subutex cause anyone to go into w/d by placing it under the tongue?  I probably will not use smack for the next few days but am taking quite a bit of Lortab.

Thanks for any help,

– JIM

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>Naloxone is administered intravenously and lasts for approximately 20 minutes.<

This is Narcan, right, this Naloxone?

>No matter what name they use it is still some bad shit for addicts!<
Other than for the fa ct it can and has saved a number of lives, I agree in that Narcan is not a pleasent drug to be given as an opiate addict, or so I’ve been lead to believe from  seeing it given right in front of me- a few here may even be able to give us even more first hand accounts that I have in the following. I’ve probably posted this before, but so what? There are a few newish subscribers who may not have seen this, so I post it again, at risk of repeating myself and in hopes of entertaining some of you:
snip-
>“What’s that, Narcan?” Thomas asks.
“That’s right,” says the paramedic. “He’s a lucky guy.” He shoots the stuff into Void’s upper arm. “Thirty seconds, just wait. This stuff is magic.”
Thomas doesn’t think Void is going to feel so lucky when he wakes up. Yeah, he’s alive, but he’d just gotten straight. Now he’s going to be really sick. <
end snip-
Full story:
http://www.drugwar.com/PrestonPeetIndex.shtm
Narcan- 
Bringing the Dead Back to Life
chapter 20 of “Something in the Way”
copyright 2001
by Preston Peet

posted Halloween, 2002

“Why is it whenever I’m broke they’re everywhere, but when I’ve got cash, I can’t find anyone?”
“Yeah well, at least you’ve got money. All I got are these two lousy videos. Oh, hold on a second.”
Thomas watches his friend Void run over to a couple of fences standing by St. Marks, and 2nd Ave., and try to sell them the videotapes, to no avail.
Thomas was exiting a building at the corner of Lafayette and Houston Streets after selling some freshly-stolen Shitake mushrooms as Magic mushrooms, calling them “Colorado Gold Tops.” Some guys he’d approached on their way to a club near Fourteenth St. the night before had given him a business card with their work number on it, telling him to call after Thomas had mentioned he could get really good mushrooms. As soon as he’d woken up this morning, he’d run to a phone and given them a call. Setting up the deal had been little trouble. Thomas plays to his victims’ greed, offering them deals better than any they’ll know of anywhere, yet not so much better that the vics get suspicious. He depends on this kind of scam for almost his entire livelihood. From necessity he’s gotten very good at separating people from their money.
Stepping out the office building’s front door, flush with the feeling of success and a good sum of cash, Thomas’ mind was focused on going to score. He’d not seen Void standing there until he’d literally bumped into him.
“Hey, what’s up Void? ‘Scuse me, I’m on a mission. Didn’t see you.” Void seemed to be just standing there. “What are you doing, spanging?”
“Oh no, I need to sell these movies.” Void held out the films, still in their new, shrink-wrapped boxes. “I’m really sick. I need to get straight, bad. I’m gonna come with you, ‘cause hopefully by the time you score, I’ll have sold these.”
Thomas hadn’t been so sure of that, and he’s still not too sure, but he likes Void. Thomas decides that he’ll help get him straight if Void can’t sell the videos. If it comes to that. Thomas doesn’t say this aloud, as there’s the chance Void’ll pull it off, but won’t try as hard if he thinks he’s already covered.
Everyone on the street has their own scam, their own game they play to get what they need. It’s deadly real to the people playing, never feeling much like a game to Thomas anymore. He just happens to make a bit more money than most with his particular scam, enabling him to build a bigger habit.
Void rejoins him. They continue walking down St. Marks to Tompkins Sq., heading through to the opposite side of the park. Unbelievably, none of the spots they pass are open. There’s nobody out doing any selling. Void doesn’t mind as he hasn’t sold the tapes yet, but Thomas is pissed. There’d been dealers out and about not one hour before as he’d been on his way to sell the shrooms. Now there’s no one.
“What about 13th Street? Rush?” Void asks. “How’s that been?”
“It hasn’t been so good the last few days, garbage really.” Thomas answers. “I don’t know if they’re even open yet. It’s only what, Two o’clock, right?”
Thomas doesn’t want to walk over to 13th Street. Walking is beginning to be a chore. He can feel the lack of dope in him, draining his energy reserves. Void is even worse off, but therefore more willing to put the effort into going the four blocks out of the way. There’s nothing for it except to go along, and Thomas does, grudgingly.
They head straight up 10th St. to 1st Ave., and turn right. At 12th, one block before they reach the spot, Void unloads the two tapes to someone at an incense table, making himself the ten bucks he needs for a bag. Thomas is amazed. He hadn’t expected Void to do it, not after failing the entire walk.
“Void, why don’t you go get the dope while I go around the block and score some coke? We’ll meet at the Polish restaurant, Christine’s, between 12th and 13th Streets.”
“Sure, how many do you want?”
“Get me four,” Thomas says handing him forty dollars. “Hurry up.”
Normally he wouldn’t trust someone with his cash, having been burned a number of times before, but he knows Void pretty well. The two of them are as close to being friends as people can get and still be strung out, and besides, if Void knows he’s going to get some coke, he’ll be there. He’s a fiend who would rather get both.
Like his now-dead friend Dan had been once, Void is another rare find.
The coke store Thomas goes to is on 12th St., just across Ave. A. It only takes him 5 minutes to get there, conduct his business, and get back to Christine’s. He arrives almost the same moment as Void, and they walk in together.
Neither of them look too respectable. The restaurant staff eye them both with suspicion and just a bit of revulsion, but no one stops them from taking a seat at a table in the dining area.
“Let me go first, man,” Void says as soon as they are seated. “I’m really sick. I’m going to throw up right here if I don’t do a shot soon.”
It’s not a lot different for Thomas, who can feel his stomach clenching and bubbling in anticipation. But he knows Void is in far worse shape so agrees to wait at the table for Void to go to the toilet first. One of them has to wait with all their bags while the other gets straight.
“Yeah, all right already, just go.”
“The guy said this is a new batch, that it’s very good, and strong,” Void says under his breath.
“Yeah, they always say that it’s the best. You know that. It’d be nice though if it’s better than what they’ve had recently, that’s for sure.” Thomas isn’t too hopeful. As long as it gets him straight, he doesn’t much care. “Hurry up. Don’t take forever, ‘cause I want to go too.”
“Can I have some coke for my shot?” Void asks, still not moving.
“Hell no. I’ll give you some later, but if you do it now, I’ll be out here an hour waiting for you. Fuck that.” There’s no anger in his voice, it’s just that Thomas knows how it is on coke sometimes. “I promise, I’ll give you some a little later. Now go, hurry up.”
Void goes to the bathroom, leaving Thomas at the table. A waitress comes over right after Void walks away, so to keep the place happy, and to feed the both of them a little something, Thomas orders two soups and coffees. By the time Void comes back to the table, Thomas is almost finished with his soup and very impatient.
“About fucking time, Void.” Thomas snarls as Void tries to pull out a chair. He misjudges the distance, pulls it too far, then sits in such a way as to send both it and himself crashing to the floor.
Thomas can’t help it, and laughs out loud. Still chuckling, he bends down and gives Void a hand up. As he lifts, he notices Void is not responding well, that his eyes are way fucked up, glassy and very pinned.
“Hey, you’re not going to nod here at the table and get us thrown out, are you?” He watches Void struggling to keep his eyes open. “You ok?”
“Oh, come on man, you know me, I’m good. Go ahead.” Void slurs out as he picks up his coffee, sloshing a third of it onto the table.
Thomas can’t wait any longer. He has to trust that Void will be OK, and goes to take his turn. The toilet stalls are well used by regular customers of the dope spot around the corner. Thomas is frequently one of those. He knows the restaurant well, knows he should have time to relax and go slow without having a manager in too quickly. He gets out his stuff and mixes up a shot in short order. Right as he has the vein, just about to boot, there comes a firm knock on the door of the stall, then an older man’s heavily accented voice.
“Hey! That your friend at the table? He dead! We call Police, they coming now. You hurry!”
Thomas pushes in the shot before he realizes what the old guy said. Then as the drugs take hold the old guy’s words sink in, giving Thomas the simultaneous rush of the incredibly strong drugs and the disbelief and shock at what’s just been said to him through the closed toilet stall door. The coke rush barely tops the dope. The dealer was telling Void the truth, because the dope feels stronger than any he’s yet found in NYC. Fast as he can in the shape he’s in, he puts everything away and cleans himself up. He wants to be out of the toilet before the cops arrive, not wanting any more attention than he’s already going to have with a dead, overdosed friend on the floor. That’s already more than he wants.
He gets to the table as quickly as he can. Sure enough, Void is on the floor, half under the table, not moving. Thomas crouches down and shakes him. “Wake the hell up man, the cops are coming.” This has absolutely no effect, so he tries smacking him on the cheeks, one after the other. Again there’s nothing. Void’s tattooed face and lips are by now turning a weirder shade of blue, and Thomas can’t find any sign of breathing or a pulse. He pushes the table back, pulls Void’s body so he’s lying stretched out on his back, and considers giving him mouth to mouth resuscitation or even CPR. Luckily he doesn’t have to as he’s abruptly pushed aside by two eager paramedics, all bustle and business.
“Overdose,” says the one who pushed Thomas. “What’d he take?”
“He told me he was sick, and was going to score a bag. I think he only did one. That’s all the money he had, ten bucks.” Thomas is thinking that when the coke he himself shot in that speedball wears off, he’s also going to be very stoned, and doesn’t want to be dealing with the police. They’d arrived with the paramedics, and now they start to question him.
“Where’d he get it? You got any yourself, kid?” One bored cop asks.
“I don’t know where he got it, and no, I don’t.” Thomas sees no need for complete honesty here.
Down on the floor the paramedics aren’t having any more luck than had Thomas in getting Void to respond. One of them reaches into the box of medical supplies he’d brought in, and starts rummaging around.
“His girlfriend lives right across the street. I’m going to run see if she’s there, because I’m not going to the hospital with him. She should know anyway.” The cops agree it’s a good idea, so Thomas runs to her apartment. Finding her home, he quickly convinces her to come with him, explaining along the way what’s going on.
By the time they get back to the restaurant, the paramedic is holding a loaded hypodermic in his hand, preparing to administer it to Void.
“What’s that, Narcan?” Thomas asks.
“That’s right,” says the paramedic. “He’s a lucky guy.” He shoots the stuff into Void’s upper arm. “Thirty seconds, just wait. This stuff is magic.”
Thomas doesn’t think Void is going to feel so lucky when he wakes up. Yeah, he’s alive, but he’d just gotten straight. Now he’s going to be really sick. Narcan completely clears the system of any vestige of the drug and it’s effects, at least temporarily, leaving the patient agonizingly ill.
After exactly thirty seconds, Void’s eyes shoot open. The first words out of his mouth are, “I’m all right, I’m all right.” He’s not even aware he’s been dead, at least not immediately, but confusion is evident on his face. It’s obvious something is wrong. He looks up at the paramedics and cops. “Oh shit.”
“Just lie there for a minute, kid. Relax.” One of the paramedics tells Void, who’s struggling to get to his feet. “Give it a minute, you just had a close call.”
“So now what?” Thomas interrupts one of the cops, who’s making disparaging remarks about junkies and losers to his partner. “Is he going to be OK?”
“Yeah, he’ll be fine. They’ve got to take him in to the hospital ‘cause they gave him a shot. It’s the law. They work on you, you ride with them.” The cop doesn’t look at Thomas, so Thomas doesn’t say anything else.
Void is helped out of the door by the paramedics. Void’s girlfriend goes with him. Thomas can hear her soothing Void, giving comfort, and almost feels a pang of jealousy. He can’t imagine his girlfiend acting thus for him. The cops are speaking with the restaurant staff, writing in their little black books and ignoring him, so Thomas decides it’s definitely time for him to go.
No one pays him any mind as he picks up his bag and coat, and walks out the front door onto 1st Ave.
“Damn I’m glad I’m not Void right now,” he thinks, watching the ambulance drive away. Narcan does not look like a fun experience. If Void had been in a park somewhere, he wouldn’t have had to go through that. Most probably he would have simply slept through the dope, then woken up tomorrow sick, ready to start again. Which is of course exactly what’s going to happen. Thomas knows he’ll bump into Void again soon, sick as hell out looking for drugs. This close call won’t change a thing.
It doesn’t occur to Thomas how close he himself came to lying on the floor being treated by the paramedics.
Thomas shakes his head, then heads to Tompkins Square to do some more of his own stuff, stopping along the way to tell another couple of fiends he knows that “Rush is damned good today.”
Tompkins Sq. Park
Peace all,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 11:22 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route you take it

Jim, I did some research and my findings are as follows…
What is the difference between naltrexone and naloxone?
Functionally, they are the same type of drug. They compete with heroin at the receptor level and block the effect of heroin. Naloxone is administered intravenously and lasts for approximately 20 minutes. Naltrexone is administered orally (pill form) and can last for 1 to 2 days.
No  matter what name they use it is still some bad shit for addicts!
They are now using Naltrexone in alcoholism treatment!
Callie

> ATTACHMENT part 2 image/jpeg name=shooter2.jpg

> ATTACHMENT part 3 image/jpeg name=tompkinstable2.JPG
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From: iboga@ziplip.com <iboga@ziplip.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine](ot)acetaminophen (a-seat-a-MIN-oh-fen)
Date: July 23, 2004 at 2:08:30 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Sara and mindvoxians,
thank you for taking the time to reply, it means allot.  But This isn’t over the counter acetaminophone, in fact, I would very much prefer acetaminopen  not be included in the pills at all but they didn’t ask me.  I’m referring to them putting all that acetaminophen seems really dangerous as their is no warning label about this, putting all the acetaminophen in  the fioricet/butalbital(barbituate), the hydrocodone, and the darvocet/propxyphne, is what I was referring to.  Which I must say have givin me a nice 4 or so hour really needed releaf from all this ache, even if temperary, it’s nice to have a break sometime, but I know the law of deminishing returns is multiplied in opioids or opiates (I don’t remeber the conclusion on that).  Anyways.  I Hope everyone is doing well and is in good spirits.  Also, does anyone know what the deadline to register to vote is?  I have a ton of cards I need to re-suppply head shops and I could really like to know if that would be wasting my time, I’ve heard 90 days, is that correct?
Be Well,
Jason
—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt <sara119@xs4all.nl>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: 23 Jul 04, 10:51 AM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] (ot)acetaminophen (a-seat-a-MIN-oh-fen)
When I had my wisdom teeth taken out ,  I had a over the counter pain killer just before bed time.
During day time I had to wash my mouth over and over again with warm water and sea salt, chamomile tea.
You will get your brain activated by feeling the pain and your brain will reduce the pain by it self.
Don’t think about it too much , go to an acupuncturist after the treatment, it will do you good to find new ways
To deal pain, I think, unless you find that nothing works as good as acetaminophen.

Take care,
S.

Van: deartheo@ziplip.com [mailto:deartheo@ziplip.com] 
Verzonden: vrijdag 23 juli 2004 17:43
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: [ibogaine] (ot)acetaminophen (a-seat-a-MIN-oh-fen)

I’m getting 4 wisdom teeth cut out in 30 days, supposed to have happened yesterday bud didn’t, growing into jaw, infected and headaches (never had one in my entire life) that are really fun.  That’s not what is interesting though….
Again, 30 days untill cut out so they give 2 weeks worth of pain medication.  All three have acetaminophen in them one that has 350 says to take every 4 hours, another is 650 and says use as needed for pain, and the third has 500 and says as needed for pain.  I did some looking around, and correct me if I’m wrong, but it doesn’t take much to overdose on acetaminophen like 3,000 or 4,000 is really pushing it from what I’ve read.  Anyone know about this?

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] AnyoneFormer’done gone2Bupe (treatment in Turkey)
Date: July 23, 2004 at 2:46:19 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Damn, FP,

It sounds like Turkey is about 50 years behind the times.

Like Preston, I am curious on the Cannabis laws over there, with all that tasty turkish hashish to be had?

If you become registered as an addict, do they allow you to leave the country?

Peace,
_.dh

On Thursday, July 22, 2004, at 10:23 PM, FakePlacebo wrote:

My Friend Jim,

It’s sounds so strange for me that hear from you about detoxing way of detox center in the western world. I think it’s only in my country. In here Turkey there is an official addiction treating center wich name is AMATEM. to hear that name  gives all the addicts  fright and horor. Beacuse thing they call it treatment is just lock you in a empty room and let you alone without sometimes even one glass of water; until you became “clean”. After you stay there around ten fucking days they register you as an addict in the govrentment records and you can’t get a job, driving licance and civil rights like voting.

There is no medical or mentaly support in AMATEM. Once you registered as an addict you’r dead thats all. The addicts put the name of this treatment: “concret treatment” beacuse of the empty cold concret room. But if you are rich (very rich) there is few clean, good, comfortable detox centers in Turkey.

They treated me in AMATEM  for three times. ( they get me there by the police force) But I was lucky 10 years ago there was no computer to keep records and records totaly lost beacuse of conflagration.

Best Regards
FakePlacebo

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route you take it
Date: July 23, 2004 at 2:15:21 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>Naloxone is administered intravenously and lasts for approximately 20 minutes.<

This is Narcan, right, this Naloxone?

>No matter what name they use it is still some bad shit for addicts!<
Other than for the fa ct it can and has saved a number of lives, I agree in that Narcan is not a pleasent drug to be given as an opiate addict, or so I’ve been lead to believe from  seeing it given right in front of me- a few here may even be able to give us even more first hand accounts that I have in the following. I’ve probably posted this before, but so what? There are a few newish subscribers who may not have seen this, so I post it again, at risk of repeating myself and in hopes of entertaining some of you:
snip-
>“What’s that, Narcan?” Thomas asks.
“That’s right,” says the paramedic. “He’s a lucky guy.” He shoots the stuff into Void’s upper arm. “Thirty seconds, just wait. This stuff is magic.”
Thomas doesn’t think Void is going to feel so lucky when he wakes up. Yeah, he’s alive, but he’d just gotten straight. Now he’s going to be really sick. <
end snip-
Full story:
http://www.drugwar.com/PrestonPeetIndex.shtm
Narcan- 
Bringing the Dead Back to Life
chapter 20 of “Something in the Way”
copyright 2001
by Preston Peet

posted Halloween, 2002

“Why is it whenever I’m broke they’re everywhere, but when I’ve got cash, I can’t find anyone?”
“Yeah well, at least you’ve got money. All I got are these two lousy videos. Oh, hold on a second.”
Thomas watches his friend Void run over to a couple of fences standing by St. Marks, and 2nd Ave., and try to sell them the videotapes, to no avail.
Thomas was exiting a building at the corner of Lafayette and Houston Streets after selling some freshly-stolen Shitake mushrooms as Magic mushrooms, calling them “Colorado Gold Tops.” Some guys he’d approached on their way to a club near Fourteenth St. the night before had given him a business card with their work number on it, telling him to call after Thomas had mentioned he could get really good mushrooms. As soon as he’d woken up this morning, he’d run to a phone and given them a call. Setting up the deal had been little trouble. Thomas plays to his victims’ greed, offering them deals better than any they’ll know of anywhere, yet not so much better that the vics get suspicious. He depends on this kind of scam for almost his entire livelihood. From necessity he’s gotten very good at separating people from their money.
Stepping out the office building’s front door, flush with the feeling of success and a good sum of cash, Thomas’ mind was focused on going to score. He’d not seen Void standing there until he’d literally bumped into him.
“Hey, what’s up Void? ‘Scuse me, I’m on a mission. Didn’t see you.” Void seemed to be just standing there. “What are you doing, spanging?”
“Oh no, I need to sell these movies.” Void held out the films, still in their new, shrink-wrapped boxes. “I’m really sick. I need to get straight, bad. I’m gonna come with you, ‘cause hopefully by the time you score, I’ll have sold these.”
Thomas hadn’t been so sure of that, and he’s still not too sure, but he likes Void. Thomas decides that he’ll help get him straight if Void can’t sell the videos. If it comes to that. Thomas doesn’t say this aloud, as there’s the chance Void’ll pull it off, but won’t try as hard if he thinks he’s already covered.
Everyone on the street has their own scam, their own game they play to get what they need. It’s deadly real to the people playing, never feeling much like a game to Thomas anymore. He just happens to make a bit more money than most with his particular scam, enabling him to build a bigger habit.
Void rejoins him. They continue walking down St. Marks to Tompkins Sq., heading through to the opposite side of the park. Unbelievably, none of the spots they pass are open. There’s nobody out doing any selling. Void doesn’t mind as he hasn’t sold the tapes yet, but Thomas is pissed. There’d been dealers out and about not one hour before as he’d been on his way to sell the shrooms. Now there’s no one.
“What about 13th Street? Rush?” Void asks. “How’s that been?”
“It hasn’t been so good the last few days, garbage really.” Thomas answers. “I don’t know if they’re even open yet. It’s only what, Two o’clock, right?”
Thomas doesn’t want to walk over to 13th Street. Walking is beginning to be a chore. He can feel the lack of dope in him, draining his energy reserves. Void is even worse off, but therefore more willing to put the effort into going the four blocks out of the way. There’s nothing for it except to go along, and Thomas does, grudgingly.
They head straight up 10th St. to 1st Ave., and turn right. At 12th, one block before they reach the spot, Void unloads the two tapes to someone at an incense table, making himself the ten bucks he needs for a bag. Thomas is amazed. He hadn’t expected Void to do it, not after failing the entire walk.
“Void, why don’t you go get the dope while I go around the block and score some coke? We’ll meet at the Polish restaurant, Christine’s, between 12th and 13th Streets.”
“Sure, how many do you want?”
“Get me four,” Thomas says handing him forty dollars. “Hurry up.”
Normally he wouldn’t trust someone with his cash, having been burned a number of times before, but he knows Void pretty well. The two of them are as close to being friends as people can get and still be strung out, and besides, if Void knows he’s going to get some coke, he’ll be there. He’s a fiend who would rather get both.
Like his now-dead friend Dan had been once, Void is another rare find.
The coke store Thomas goes to is on 12th St., just across Ave. A. It only takes him 5 minutes to get there, conduct his business, and get back to Christine’s. He arrives almost the same moment as Void, and they walk in together.
Neither of them look too respectable. The restaurant staff eye them both with suspicion and just a bit of revulsion, but no one stops them from taking a seat at a table in the dining area.
“Let me go first, man,” Void says as soon as they are seated. “I’m really sick. I’m going to throw up right here if I don’t do a shot soon.”
It’s not a lot different for Thomas, who can feel his stomach clenching and bubbling in anticipation. But he knows Void is in far worse shape so agrees to wait at the table for Void to go to the toilet first. One of them has to wait with all their bags while the other gets straight.
“Yeah, all right already, just go.”
“The guy said this is a new batch, that it’s very good, and strong,” Void says under his breath.
“Yeah, they always say that it’s the best. You know that. It’d be nice though if it’s better than what they’ve had recently, that’s for sure.” Thomas isn’t too hopeful. As long as it gets him straight, he doesn’t much care. “Hurry up. Don’t take forever, ‘cause I want to go too.”
“Can I have some coke for my shot?” Void asks, still not moving.
“Hell no. I’ll give you some later, but if you do it now, I’ll be out here an hour waiting for you. Fuck that.” There’s no anger in his voice, it’s just that Thomas knows how it is on coke sometimes. “I promise, I’ll give you some a little later. Now go, hurry up.”
Void goes to the bathroom, leaving Thomas at the table. A waitress comes over right after Void walks away, so to keep the place happy, and to feed the both of them a little something, Thomas orders two soups and coffees. By the time Void comes back to the table, Thomas is almost finished with his soup and very impatient.
“About fucking time, Void.” Thomas snarls as Void tries to pull out a chair. He misjudges the distance, pulls it too far, then sits in such a way as to send both it and himself crashing to the floor.
Thomas can’t help it, and laughs out loud. Still chuckling, he bends down and gives Void a hand up. As he lifts, he notices Void is not responding well, that his eyes are way fucked up, glassy and very pinned.
“Hey, you’re not going to nod here at the table and get us thrown out, are you?” He watches Void struggling to keep his eyes open. “You ok?”
“Oh, come on man, you know me, I’m good. Go ahead.” Void slurs out as he picks up his coffee, sloshing a third of it onto the table.
Thomas can’t wait any longer. He has to trust that Void will be OK, and goes to take his turn. The toilet stalls are well used by regular customers of the dope spot around the corner. Thomas is frequently one of those. He knows the restaurant well, knows he should have time to relax and go slow without having a manager in too quickly. He gets out his stuff and mixes up a shot in short order. Right as he has the vein, just about to boot, there comes a firm knock on the door of the stall, then an older man’s heavily accented voice.
“Hey! That your friend at the table? He dead! We call Police, they coming now. You hurry!”
Thomas pushes in the shot before he realizes what the old guy said. Then as the drugs take hold the old guy’s words sink in, giving Thomas the simultaneous rush of the incredibly strong drugs and the disbelief and shock at what’s just been said to him through the closed toilet stall door. The coke rush barely tops the dope. The dealer was telling Void the truth, because the dope feels stronger than any he’s yet found in NYC. Fast as he can in the shape he’s in, he puts everything away and cleans himself up. He wants to be out of the toilet before the cops arrive, not wanting any more attention than he’s already going to have with a dead, overdosed friend on the floor. That’s already more than he wants.
He gets to the table as quickly as he can. Sure enough, Void is on the floor, half under the table, not moving. Thomas crouches down and shakes him. “Wake the hell up man, the cops are coming.” This has absolutely no effect, so he tries smacking him on the cheeks, one after the other. Again there’s nothing. Void’s tattooed face and lips are by now turning a weirder shade of blue, and Thomas can’t find any sign of breathing or a pulse. He pushes the table back, pulls Void’s body so he’s lying stretched out on his back, and considers giving him mouth to mouth resuscitation or even CPR. Luckily he doesn’t have to as he’s abruptly pushed aside by two eager paramedics, all bustle and business.
“Overdose,” says the one who pushed Thomas. “What’d he take?”
“He told me he was sick, and was going to score a bag. I think he only did one. That’s all the money he had, ten bucks.” Thomas is thinking that when the coke he himself shot in that speedball wears off, he’s also going to be very stoned, and doesn’t want to be dealing with the police. They’d arrived with the paramedics, and now they start to question him.
“Where’d he get it? You got any yourself, kid?” One bored cop asks.
“I don’t know where he got it, and no, I don’t.” Thomas sees no need for complete honesty here.
Down on the floor the paramedics aren’t having any more luck than had Thomas in getting Void to respond. One of them reaches into the box of medical supplies he’d brought in, and starts rummaging around.
“His girlfriend lives right across the street. I’m going to run see if she’s there, because I’m not going to the hospital with him. She should know anyway.” The cops agree it’s a good idea, so Thomas runs to her apartment. Finding her home, he quickly convinces her to come with him, explaining along the way what’s going on.
By the time they get back to the restaurant, the paramedic is holding a loaded hypodermic in his hand, preparing to administer it to Void.
“What’s that, Narcan?” Thomas asks.
“That’s right,” says the paramedic. “He’s a lucky guy.” He shoots the stuff into Void’s upper arm. “Thirty seconds, just wait. This stuff is magic.”
Thomas doesn’t think Void is going to feel so lucky when he wakes up. Yeah, he’s alive, but he’d just gotten straight. Now he’s going to be really sick. Narcan completely clears the system of any vestige of the drug and it’s effects, at least temporarily, leaving the patient agonizingly ill.
After exactly thirty seconds, Void’s eyes shoot open. The first words out of his mouth are, “I’m all right, I’m all right.” He’s not even aware he’s been dead, at least not immediately, but confusion is evident on his face. It’s obvious something is wrong. He looks up at the paramedics and cops. “Oh shit.”
“Just lie there for a minute, kid. Relax.” One of the paramedics tells Void, who’s struggling to get to his feet. “Give it a minute, you just had a close call.”
“So now what?” Thomas interrupts one of the cops, who’s making disparaging remarks about junkies and losers to his partner. “Is he going to be OK?”
“Yeah, he’ll be fine. They’ve got to take him in to the hospital ‘cause they gave him a shot. It’s the law. They work on you, you ride with them.” The cop doesn’t look at Thomas, so Thomas doesn’t say anything else.
Void is helped out of the door by the paramedics. Void’s girlfriend goes with him. Thomas can hear her soothing Void, giving comfort, and almost feels a pang of jealousy. He can’t imagine his girlfiend acting thus for him. The cops are speaking with the restaurant staff, writing in their little black books and ignoring him, so Thomas decides it’s definitely time for him to go.
No one pays him any mind as he picks up his bag and coat, and walks out the front door onto 1st Ave.
“Damn I’m glad I’m not Void right now,” he thinks, watching the ambulance drive away. Narcan does not look like a fun experience. If Void had been in a park somewhere, he wouldn’t have had to go through that. Most probably he would have simply slept through the dope, then woken up tomorrow sick, ready to start again. Which is of course exactly what’s going to happen. Thomas knows he’ll bump into Void again soon, sick as hell out looking for drugs. This close call won’t change a thing.
It doesn’t occur to Thomas how close he himself came to lying on the floor being treated by the paramedics.
Thomas shakes his head, then heads to Tompkins Square to do some more of his own stuff, stopping along the way to tell another couple of fiends he knows that “Rush is damned good today.”
Tompkins Sq. Park
Peace all,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 11:22 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route you take it

Jim, I did some research and my findings are as follows…
What is the difference between naltrexone and naloxone?
Functionally, they are the same type of drug. They compete with heroin at the receptor level and block the effect of heroin. Naloxone is administered intravenously and lasts for approximately 20 minutes. Naltrexone is administered orally (pill form) and can last for 1 to 2 days.
No  matter what name they use it is still some bad shit for addicts!
They are now using Naltrexone in alcoholism treatment!
Callie

From: iboga@ziplip.com <iboga@ziplip.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] *Sorelmathers*Re: mcorcoran
Date: July 23, 2004 at 1:53:09 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I would not likely ever do ibogaine again.  but I have no doubt in my mind that I will and likely continue to do iboga root (likely as extract) for spiritual objectives.  It is a temple, a home.  And it helps focus priorities at least in me.  Why people keep doing ibogaine, I guess they would have to say.
Jason
—–Original Message—–
From: Sorel Mathers [mailto:sorelmathers@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004, 9:04 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran

This is what always set me off again I’d find a reason
it was ok to use, after I did it then it was easy to
come up with reasons to keep my run going because id
already messed up so why not. Thanks for this it makes
me feel better to know that this is the same after
ibogaine for everyone. I some of the time have a hard
time trying to imagine some of the people on this list
as junkies. I know you all were but it always looks
like it is a long road from where I am to get to
anywhere near out of all this.
I know your not going to be reading now this but it is
for anyone who has done ibogaine before, your quote in
jama is “the first time I did ibogaine it was like
dying and going to hell 1000 times” but youve done it
so many times since then.
Is it hard to do ibogaine to deal with what you go
through when you go? Some people are syaing they do it
once and never again but the more I read the more I
see more then a few of you do it a lot more then once.
some of you a lot more then once. I cant imagine
putting yourself through that when you dont have to.
why do any of you keep doing it do you get more from
it when you do it again so many times?

— “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> wrote:

Dude,

If it’s any consolation, nearly 5 years later I feel
exactly the same
way.  If I iz superman … narcotic analgesics =
kryptonite.

I’ve had oral surgery and teeFs implanted without
anything ‘cept Vioxx
and acetaminophen.  Ouch.  It hurtS It hurtS!!@!!!
“I’m sure, I just
sawed down your gums and screwed teeth into your
jawbone!  Don’t worry,
I’ll write you for some Percocet!”  Uh … this is
the part where I
EXPLAIN that Percs don’t work for me, but there is
this thing called
Dilaudid which truly rocks!  “Ok, I’ll write you for
that!”  And then
… and theN, then comes the BEST PART where I do
one.  Realize I’m not
clean anymore anyway, so why not toss 5 into a
cooker, cold shake, bang
up, and PRESTO!!!!  The romance begins again!!!
Wooo HooOOooOOooOO.  I
love dope!!!

Uh … pardon me, calming down.  It’s late, just …
telling myself a
happy little story.  Don’t read any of that.

So, uhm, basically … everything you said makes
perfect sense to me!
Just make sure you’re utterly fucked up when you get
on the plane.
Skip the guilt, and enjoy your flight!  I sure did
my last time.

In other words: I think … everything you’re
thinking, feeling, and
experiencing … is shit that everybody who has made
it, has also felt.

None of it prevents you from stepping out of drug
dependence.  You’re
perfectly normal … for a dopefiend.  What I’m
saying is … 5 years
later.  All the thoughts going through your head,
are no different than
what passes through mine, or anybody else’s — who
has managed to clean
up.

Fuck everybody, do the ibogaine, see what it gives
you, and then after
that, start taking some advice.  If at all possible.

If intellectual understanding of what you’re doing
was enough to stop.
Well, you really wouldn’t need to do ibogaine in the
first place.

Peace dude, and enjoy.  It’s a cool plane of
existence to visit.

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Vote for the stars of Yahoo!’s next ad campaign!
http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/yahoo/votelifeengine/

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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] (ot)acetaminophen (a-seat-a-MIN-oh-fen)
Date: July 23, 2004 at 1:33:33 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

When I had my wisdom teeth taken out ,  I had a over the counter pain killer just before bed time.
During day time I had to wash my mouth over and over again with warm water and sea salt, chamomile tea.
You will get your brain activated by feeling the pain and your brain will reduce the pain by it self.
Don’t think about it too much , go to an acupuncturist after the treatment, it will do you good to find new ways
To deal pain, I think, unless you find that nothing works as good as acetaminophen.

Take care,
S.

Van: deartheo@ziplip.com [mailto:deartheo@ziplip.com] 
Verzonden: vrijdag 23 juli 2004 17:43
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: [ibogaine] (ot)acetaminophen (a-seat-a-MIN-oh-fen)

I’m getting 4 wisdom teeth cut out in 30 days, supposed to have happened yesterday bud didn’t, growing into jaw, infected and headaches (never had one in my entire life) that are really fun.  That’s not what is interesting though….
Again, 30 days untill cut out so they give 2 weeks worth of pain medication.  All three have acetaminophen in them one that has 350 says to take every 4 hours, another is 650 and says use as needed for pain, and the third has 500 and says as needed for pain.  I did some looking around, and correct me if I’m wrong, but it doesn’t take much to overdose on acetaminophen like 3,000 or 4,000 is really pushing it from what I’ve read.  Anyone know about this?
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This is Me
Date: July 23, 2004 at 1:20:10 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

LOL!
Great photo FP. ;l-)))
Now how am I going to keep all these faces straight…errr, no, never go
straight, always go forward…how am I going to keep them assigned in my
mind to the proper poster? There’s too many! Argh!
I’m kidding. I’m realy enjoying seeing all these faces put to their
various owners.
Ok, back to work stuff.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: FakePlacebo
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 4:55 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] This is Me

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From: <gboy@hush.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] fakeplacebo
Date: July 23, 2004 at 12:43:01 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—–
Hash: SHA1

Fakeplacebo what is it like your country for
marijuana laws what happens if you get caught
with it? if it sucks so bad can you move out
or do you have to stay there because of your
family?

.g
—–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—–
Note: This signature can be verified at https://www.hushtools.com/verify
Version: Hush 2.4

wkYEARECAAYFAkEBQBQACgkQxuwtmNNEJvT43ACePj0nVoiq0hYQsVExODxLEGEY2PgA
oLaM9kmHbLkr1ezD5A3LtlECXboD
=1vUL
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From: “FakePlacebo” <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] (ot)acetaminophen (a-seat-a-MIN-oh-fen)
Date: July 23, 2004 at 11:58:57 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Your body can tolerate that doses but don’t go over 4000 mg per day. It could reason for liver harm. This is not the best painkiler in your case.
—– Original Message —–
From: deartheo@ziplip.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 6:43 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] (ot)acetaminophen (a-seat-a-MIN-oh-fen)

I’m getting 4 wisdom teeth cut out in 30 days, supposed to have happened yesterday bud didn’t, growing into jaw, infected and headaches (never had one in my entire life) that are really fun.  That’s not what is interesting though….
Again, 30 days untill cut out so they give 2 weeks worth of pain medication.  All three have acetaminophen in them one that has 350 says to take every 4 hours, another is 650 and says use as needed for pain, and the third has 500 and says as needed for pain.  I did some looking around, and correct me if I’m wrong, but it doesn’t take much to overdose on acetaminophen like 3,000 or 4,000 is really pushing it from what I’ve read.  Anyone know about this?

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From: Sorel Mathers <sorelmathers@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran
Date: July 23, 2004 at 11:46:15 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This is what always set me off again I’d find a reason
it was ok to use, after I did it then it was easy to
come up with reasons to keep my run going because id
already messed up so why not. Thanks for this it makes
me feel better to know that this is the same after
ibogaine for everyone. I some of the time have a hard
time trying to imagine some of the people on this list
as junkies. I know you all were but it always looks
like it is a long road from where I am to get to
anywhere near out of all this.
I know your not going to be reading now this but it is
for anyone who has done ibogaine before, your quote in
jama is “the first time I did ibogaine it was like
dying and going to hell 1000 times” but youve done it
so many times since then.
Is it hard to do ibogaine to deal with what you go
through when you go? Some people are syaing they do it
once and never again but the more I read the more I
see more then a few of you do it a lot more then once.
some of you a lot more then once. I cant imagine
putting yourself through that when you dont have to.
why do any of you keep doing it do you get more from
it when you do it again so many times?

— “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> wrote:

Dude,

If it’s any consolation, nearly 5 years later I feel
exactly the same
way.  If I iz superman … narcotic analgesics =
kryptonite.

I’ve had oral surgery and teeFs implanted without
anything ‘cept Vioxx
and acetaminophen.  Ouch.  It hurtS It hurtS!!@!!!
“I’m sure, I just
sawed down your gums and screwed teeth into your
jawbone!  Don’t worry,
I’ll write you for some Percocet!”  Uh … this is
the part where I
EXPLAIN that Percs don’t work for me, but there is
this thing called
Dilaudid which truly rocks!  “Ok, I’ll write you for
that!”  And then
… and theN, then comes the BEST PART where I do
one.  Realize I’m not
clean anymore anyway, so why not toss 5 into a
cooker, cold shake, bang
up, and PRESTO!!!!  The romance begins again!!!
Wooo HooOOooOOooOO.  I
love dope!!!

Uh … pardon me, calming down.  It’s late, just …
telling myself a
happy little story.  Don’t read any of that.

So, uhm, basically … everything you said makes
perfect sense to me!
Just make sure you’re utterly fucked up when you get
on the plane.
Skip the guilt, and enjoy your flight!  I sure did
my last time.

In other words: I think … everything you’re
thinking, feeling, and
experiencing … is shit that everybody who has made
it, has also felt.

None of it prevents you from stepping out of drug
dependence.  You’re
perfectly normal … for a dopefiend.  What I’m
saying is … 5 years
later.  All the thoughts going through your head,
are no different than
what passes through mine, or anybody else’s — who
has managed to clean
up.

Fuck everybody, do the ibogaine, see what it gives
you, and then after
that, start taking some advice.  If at all possible.

If intellectual understanding of what you’re doing
was enough to stop.
Well, you really wouldn’t need to do ibogaine in the
first place.

Peace dude, and enjoy.  It’s a cool plane of
existence to visit.

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Vote for the stars of Yahoo!’s next ad campaign!
http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/yahoo/votelifeengine/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
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From: <deartheo@ziplip.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] (ot)acetaminophen (a-seat-a-MIN-oh-fen)
Date: July 23, 2004 at 11:43:19 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m getting 4 wisdom teeth cut out in 30 days, supposed to have happened yesterday bud didn’t, growing into jaw, infected and headaches (never had one in my entire life) that are really fun.  That’s not what is interesting though….
Again, 30 days untill cut out so they give 2 weeks worth of pain medication.  All three have acetaminophen in them one that has 350 says to take every 4 hours, another is 650 and says use as needed for pain, and the third has 500 and says as needed for pain.  I did some looking around, and correct me if I’m wrong, but it doesn’t take much to overdose on acetaminophen like 3,000 or 4,000 is really pushing it from what I’ve read.  Anyone know about this?
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route you take it
Date: July 23, 2004 at 11:22:02 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jim, I did some research and my findings are as follows…
What is the difference between naltrexone and naloxone?
Functionally, they are the same type of drug. They compete with heroin at the receptor level and block the effect of heroin. Naloxone is administered intravenously and lasts for approximately 20 minutes. Naltrexone is administered orally (pill form) and can last for 1 to 2 days.
No  matter what name they use it is still some bad shit for addicts!
They are now using Naltrexone in alcoholism treatment!
Callie

From: <deartheo@ziplip.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] (ot) nice animation, where’s tribe?
Date: July 23, 2004 at 11:20:03 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://w1.736.telia.com/~u73602493/flashback.html
nice one, I love illusions of motion with sound, one that I liked allot after dosing iboga extract was Coldcut’s video for song called Timber and the other ones on the cd aren’t bad, I think you can get some good video sampling software from them but that was almost 10 years ago now.  I’m sure Adobe is best?  But any good software that is good and free?
I would love to see some Bwiti visual electronic visual art in motion to sound but I’m not sure how they would feel about that…it would be really, really amazing to see though wouldn’t it?  Someone give all the tribes a laptop with good software or get one of those NY art galleries to fund a project.
I had no idea oral surgNs give diladid, I’ll have to see if that is current information ; )

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] AnyoneFormer’done gone2Bupe (treatment in Turkey)
Date: July 23, 2004 at 9:25:00 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi FakePlacebo,

Damn, sounds bad.  At least I had a bed, water and toilet and shower.  I bet you were doing some strong stuff in Turkey.  It is a shame they put you through hell then make it so you can not get a job when you get out.  Like they say “It’s hell without money”

In America, if you are rich you go to places like Betty Ford where they have good food and living conditions.  But I am talking VERY rich.  Like movie star rich.  Here, the people, like homeless people, go to a place where there are maybe 6 beds in a bedroom (3 sets of bunk beds).  A friend who is on parole goes there all the time for 90 days at a time.  It’s still not as bad as what you went through.  I hope you manage to stay clean.

Take Care,

– JIM

FakePlacebo <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com> wrote:
My Friend Jim,

It’s sounds so strange for me that hear from you about detoxing way of detox center in the western world. I think it’s only in my country. In here Turkey there is an official addiction treating center wich name is AMATEM. to hear that name  gives all the addicts  fright and horor. Beacuse thing they call it treatment is just lock you in a empty room and let you alone without sometimes even one glass of water; until you became “clean”. After you stay there around ten fucking days they register you as an addict in the govrentment records and you can’t get a job, driving licance and civil rights like voting.

There is no medical or mentaly support in AMATEM. Once you registered as an addict you’r dead thats all. The addicts put the name of this treatment: “concret treatment” beacuse of the empty cold concret room. But if you are rich (very rich) there is few clean, good, comfortable detox centers in Turkey.

They treated me in AMATEM  for three times. ( they get me there by the police force) But I was lucky 10 years ago there was no computer to keep records and records totaly lost beacuse of conflagration.

Best Regards
FakePlacebo
—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 12:40 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] AnyoneFormer’done gone2Bupe

I think I may of not made myself clear on the last post.  I was in detox and did not go through w/d when given the narcon or naltraxon.  However, if I had cheated and taken a few narcotics in with me it would of been hell.

D.H.  you did the right thing flushing the stuff away.  I am not one to throw away drugs, sorta like throwing away food with all the starving people in the world.  But in 6 months or a year you may of given in to the craving and have to start from square one.  Glad you stayed stright.

– JIM
Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi Callie,

I think there may have a slight mix up. There is Narcan that is the brand name; naloxone which will only bother you if you shoot it up.  You can take it via mouth and the stomach acids will destroy it.  Or so they say.

Naltrexone on the other hand is used by addicts to keep clean, much like antabuse for the alcoholics.  It is a 50 mg pill that is swallowed and last up to day or so.  It is a very dangerous thing to try and override for you feel nothing but then you do just a little bit more then you OD.  But it counteracts the narcotic, thus you feel nothing and do not bother to use.  But you must be clean anywhere from two to three weeks depending on how much you were using.  Then they give you a shot of Narcan VERY slowly before giving you Naltrexone.  The Narcan is a short acting antagonist and you will be in w/d for 4 hours.  If you take Naltrexone you will be in w/d much longer.  At least that is what happened to me in detox.  I could get the Naltrexone for free via mail or pay about $100 for 30 pills.  Well like a fool I sent in through the mail and the cravings got to me before the pills.  But that was many years ago, I got to learn to quit kicking my ass over it.  The detox center was sorta like go in the detox room and suffer, no Imodium, nothing to help you sleep, nothing for nausea, just catapress which did not help much when your doing over $100 per day.  And then it is NA and AA meetings.  Damn was I sick.

If I am wrong on this please, somebody, call it to my attention.

Hey some good news.

A strange thing happeded today.  The first call I made to a doc said they do the bupe thing.  I asked if they used Subutex and they said no they used ??? and damn it I did not catch what she said.  There are two kinds of bupe Subutex and some other kind with the Narcan in it to stop users from shooting it up, just like the Talwin.  If anyone had problems with the Narcan causeing withdrawal please let me know.

I really hate going to new docs, filling out the forms, answering the questions, etc. but if I get the bupe and it helps with the depression I will be happy.  But as one person on the forum said that there are those clinics that just detox you for there is more money to be made than by maintaining you.  So I guess I will just have to go and play it by ear.  I have learned a lot on this forum, I am so glad it is here.  Good luck to everyone.

– JIM

CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 7/22/2004 3:54:39 AM Central Daylight Time, BiscuitBoy714@aol.com writes:
naltrexone reacting to the meth in me

Personally I hate naltrexone use in addiction! It serves no purpose except to make you feel like shit and a bundle of nerves. I feel it should only be used in the Emergency Room and should be used there only in life/death situations!
The folks I know who have taken it in Talwin or was given it in ER for overdoses have NEVER felt like they did before Naltrexone. Kind of like Antabuse and alcohol.
Callie

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] AnyoneFormer’done gone2Bupe (treatment in Turkey)
Date: July 23, 2004 at 9:23:38 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi FakePlacebo,

Damn, sounds bad.  At least I had a bed, water and toilet and shower.  I bet you were doing some strong stuff in Turkey.  It is a shame they put you through hell then make it so you can not get a job when you get out.  Like they say “It’s hell without money”

In America, if you are rich you go to places like Betty Ford where they have good food and living conditions.  But I am talking VERY rich.  Like movie star rich.  Here, the people, like homeless people, go to a place where there are maybe 6 beds in a bedroom (3 sets of bunk beds).  A friend who is on parole goes there all the time for 90 days at a time.  It’s still not as bad as what you went through.  I hope you manage to stay clean.

Take Care,

– JIM

FakePlacebo <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com> wrote:
My Friend Jim,

It’s sounds so strange for me that hear from you about detoxing way of detox center in the western world. I think it’s only in my country. In here Turkey there is an official addiction treating center wich name is AMATEM. to hear that name  gives all the addicts  fright and horor. Beacuse thing they call it treatment is just lock you in a empty room and let you alone without sometimes even one glass of water; until you became “clean”. After you stay there around ten fucking days they register you as an addict in the govrentment records and you can’t get a job, driving licance and civil rights like voting.

There is no medical or mentaly support in AMATEM. Once you registered as an addict you’r dead thats all. The addicts put the name of this treatment: “concret treatment” beacuse of the empty cold concret room. But if you are rich (very rich) there is few clean, good, comfortable detox centers in Turkey.

They treated me in AMATEM  for three times. ( they get me there by the police force) But I was lucky 10 years ago there was no computer to keep records and records totaly lost beacuse of conflagration.

Best Regards
FakePlacebo
—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 12:40 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] AnyoneFormer’done gone2Bupe

I think I may of not made myself clear on the last post.  I was in detox and did not go through w/d when given the narcon or naltraxon.  However, if I had cheated and taken a few narcotics in with me it would of been hell.

D.H.  you did the right thing flushing the stuff away.  I am not one to throw away drugs, sorta like throwing away food with all the starving people in the world.  But in 6 months or a year you may of given in to the craving and have to start from square one.  Glad you stayed stright.

– JIM
Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi Callie,

I think there may have a slight mix up. There is Narcan that is the brand name; naloxone which will only bother you if you shoot it up.  You can take it via mouth and the stomach acids will destroy it.  Or so they say.

Naltrexone on the other hand is used by addicts to keep clean, much like antabuse for the alcoholics.  It is a 50 mg pill that is swallowed and last up to day or so.  It is a very dangerous thing to try and override for you feel nothing but then you do just a little bit more then you OD.  But it counteracts the narcotic, thus you feel nothing and do not bother to use.  But you must be clean anywhere from two to three weeks depending on how much you were using.  Then they give you a shot of Narcan VERY slowly before giving you Naltrexone.  The Narcan is a short acting antagonist and you will be in w/d for 4 hours.  If you take Naltrexone you will be in w/d much longer.  At least that is what happened to me in detox.  I could get the Naltrexone for free via mail or pay about $100 for 30 pills.  Well like a fool I sent in through the mail and the cravings got to me before the pills.  But that was many years ago, I got to learn to quit kicking my ass over it.  The detox center was sorta like go in the detox room and suffer, no Imodium, nothing to help you sleep, nothing for nausea, just catapress which did not help much when your doing over $100 per day.  And then it is NA and AA meetings.  Damn was I sick.

If I am wrong on this please, somebody, call it to my attention.

Hey some good news.

A strange thing happeded today.  The first call I made to a doc said they do the bupe thing.  I asked if they used Subutex and they said no they used ??? and damn it I did not catch what she said.  There are two kinds of bupe Subutex and some other kind with the Narcan in it to stop users from shooting it up, just like the Talwin.  If anyone had problems with the Narcan causeing withdrawal please let me know.

I really hate going to new docs, filling out the forms, answering the questions, etc. but if I get the bupe and it helps with the depression I will be happy.  But as one person on the forum said that there are those clinics that just detox you for there is more money to be made than by maintaining you.  So I guess I will just have to go and play it by ear.  I have learned a lot on this forum, I am so glad it is here.  Good luck to everyone.

– JIM

CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 7/22/2004 3:54:39 AM Central Daylight Time, BiscuitBoy714@aol.com writes:
naltrexone reacting to the meth in me

Personally I hate naltrexone use in addiction! It serves no purpose except to make you feel like shit and a bundle of nerves. I feel it should only be used in the Emergency Room and should be used there only in life/death situations!
The folks I know who have taken it in Talwin or was given it in ER for overdoses have NEVER felt like they did before Naltrexone. Kind of like Antabuse and alcohol.
Callie

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From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Trippy-shit!
Date: July 23, 2004 at 7:37:30 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sorry if I’ve sent this before-my email went down so I don’t think I did!

Check this out!

http://w1.736.telia.com/~u73602493/flashback.html

lol Hannah

From: “FakePlacebo” <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] This is Me
Date: July 23, 2004 at 4:55:10 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

 

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “FakePlacebo” <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] AnyoneFormer’done gone2Bupe (treatment in Turkey)
Date: July 23, 2004 at 4:23:52 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

My Friend Jim,

It’s sounds so strange for me that hear from you about detoxing way of detox center in the western world. I think it’s only in my country. In here Turkey there is an official addiction treating center wich name is AMATEM. to hear that name  gives all the addicts  fright and horor. Beacuse thing they call it treatment is just lock you in a empty room and let you alone without sometimes even one glass of water; until you became “clean”. After you stay there around ten fucking days they register you as an addict in the govrentment records and you can’t get a job, driving licance and civil rights like voting.

There is no medical or mentaly support in AMATEM. Once you registered as an addict you’r dead thats all. The addicts put the name of this treatment: “concret treatment” beacuse of the empty cold concret room. But if you are rich (very rich) there is few clean, good, comfortable detox centers in Turkey.

They treated me in AMATEM  for three times. ( they get me there by the police force) But I was lucky 10 years ago there was no computer to keep records and records totaly lost beacuse of conflagration.

Best Regards
FakePlacebo
—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 12:40 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] AnyoneFormer’done gone2Bupe

I think I may of not made myself clear on the last post.  I was in detox and did not go through w/d when given the narcon or naltraxon.  However, if I had cheated and taken a few narcotics in with me it would of been hell.

D.H.  you did the right thing flushing the stuff away.  I am not one to throw away drugs, sorta like throwing away food with all the starving people in the world.  But in 6 months or a year you may of given in to the craving and have to start from square one.  Glad you stayed stright.

– JIM
Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi Callie,

I think there may have a slight mix up. There is Narcan that is the brand name; naloxone which will only bother you if you shoot it up.  You can take it via mouth and the stomach acids will destroy it.  Or so they say.

Naltrexone on the other hand is used by addicts to keep clean, much like antabuse for the alcoholics.  It is a 50 mg pill that is swallowed and last up to day or so.  It is a very dangerous thing to try and override for you feel nothing but then you do just a little bit more then you OD.  But it counteracts the narcotic, thus you feel nothing and do not bother to use.  But you must be clean anywhere from two to three weeks depending on how much you were using.  Then they give you a shot of Narcan VERY slowly before giving you Naltrexone.  The Narcan is a short acting antagonist and you will be in w/d for 4 hours.  If you take Naltrexone you will be in w/d much longer.  At least that is what happened to me in detox.  I could get the Naltrexone for free via mail or pay about $100 for 30 pills.  Well like a fool I sent in through the mail and the cravings got to me before the pills.  But that was many years ago, I got to learn to quit kicking my ass over it.  The detox center was sorta like go in the detox room and suffer, no Imodium, nothing to help you sleep, nothing for nausea, just catapress which did not help much when your doing over $100 per day.  And then it is NA and AA meetings.  Damn was I sick.

If I am wrong on this please, somebody, call it to my attention.

Hey some good news.

A strange thing happeded today.  The first call I made to a doc said they do the bupe thing.  I asked if they used Subutex and they said no they used ??? and damn it I did not catch what she said.  There are two kinds of bupe Subutex and some other kind with the Narcan in it to stop users from shooting it up, just like the Talwin.  If anyone had problems with the Narcan causeing withdrawal please let me know.

I really hate going to new docs, filling out the forms, answering the questions, etc. but if I get the bupe and it helps with the depression I will be happy.  But as one person on the forum said that there are those clinics that just detox you for there is more money to be made than by maintaining you.  So I guess I will just have to go and play it by ear.  I have learned a lot on this forum, I am so glad it is here.  Good luck to everyone.

– JIM

CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 7/22/2004 3:54:39 AM Central Daylight Time, BiscuitBoy714@aol.com writes:
naltrexone reacting to the meth in me

Personally I hate naltrexone use in addiction! It serves no purpose except to make you feel like shit and a bundle of nerves. I feel it should only be used in the Emergency Room and should be used there only in life/death situations!
The folks I know who have taken it in Talwin or was given it in ER for overdoses have NEVER felt like they did before Naltrexone. Kind of like Antabuse and alcohol.
Callie

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From: Patrick K. Kroupa <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] List Annoucement
Date: July 23, 2004 at 3:40:19 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I think a reasonable goal for the evolution of this list … is: everybody who signs up, should be spontaneously healed.  Right away, if not sooner.

Making a bold, forward-looking statement, I think we can attain this within the next 45 minutes.  Though, perhaps, it may take just a little bit longer.  Maybe even a year, possibly 5.

It’s sumthin’ to shoot for at any rate.

Other than all that: I am outta here for ’bout 5-7 days.  So, thusly, if there is anything EXTREMELY URGENT that requires my attention.  Well, it’ll remain extremely urgent, or, conceivably, even become an ABSOLUTE CRISIS or UTTER DISASTER as time passes, but … I don’t give a fuck.  ComputerZ b4d.

<Handing Shiny Gold Star to Mr. Gamma>: Dave, you’re in charge of everything.  If you experience any problems, Jon Freedlander will help you untangle and solve ALL PROBLEMS that afflict the list in particular, and humanity as a whole.  Whoopsie, no, wait, I forget to make Jon a shell account.  C’est La’vie, shit happens.

Jon, just, ya know, say something soothing.  I will POP my mail once every few days, but I’m really not gonna be replying to anything.  I need a headcheck.

Buh-bye,

Patrick

p.s., The After Ibogaine List and Sacrament will both light up when I get back.  They’re actually already there, but not fully armeD & Operational quite yet.

Dana … we need a downloadable cannabis plug-in.  When will that arrive?

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Hannah Clay” <spaglet@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran
Date: July 23, 2004 at 3:33:17 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Nice words DH, made me cry!  What if you suddenly realise there ain’t no music in your head no more?  And you can’t even be sure what tune it used to be?

I think I’m going through a mid-life crisis at 23!  Its early and I’ve just woken up so please excuse my rambling.  I will put it all in one post though so I don’t cause you all spam!

Basically I grew up through hell-nothing wrong on the surface,  close family, good(ish) results at school (underacheiver!) etc but I was always depressed and even when I was 13 I was known for bein into my weed.  I grew up through alcohol (drunk every day, night usually ended with me crying in a gutter someplace), then E (wow, no more depression!  Oh holy shit-come downs!) and when the high got crap I moved through acid n ‘shrooms,speed onto H and crack.  For the last 5 yrs I’ve been a no-good smackhead! lol.

I don’t know why I’m saying all this-I was just thinking that my problems always been that I’m always dissatisfied.  I always want better.  And if I’m honest-I wanna get there with as little effort as possible!  I watch evryone else get up and go to their 9 to 5 jobs and I don’t want that.  But what do I want?  When I was a kid I wanted to have a gypsy caravan and write books.  Then I found I didn’t have enough of an imagination to write!  Now I think I just read too much-I believed anything was possible and now (at 23!) I feel like nothings possible.  And ofcourse that’s the perfect excuse to have more gear.

God-knows what I meant to say here, sorry!  I’m sure I had a point originally.

Hey, on the opiate detox site I use 2 people posted that you shouldn’t take Ibogaine if you’re a woman-its dangerous!  Where on earth did they get that from?

Sorry for talking rubbish.  I’ll wake up later and just think D’oh!

Hannah

—– Original Message —–
From: D H
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 7:14 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran

Mark,

good stuff being said here.

I’ll ditto Mister Anker, read “keeping clean” on ibogaine.mindvox.com

we are behind you 200%. Some of us have been right where you are now, so this is all good for all of us.

a little quote from my NA Daze:.

“the theraputic value of one addict helping another is without parallel!” Its a two-way street. You are helping me stay clean, right here, right now.

and I’ll say my little getting/keeping clean spiel here for kicks:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
uhm…

If you “relapse/slip/use/stumble/get loaded/fuckup/freakout/fall” -pick yourself back up ASAP, dust yourself off and move on. Avoid getting mired down in guilt, shame, remorse or pity. These are fear-based stumbling blocks and will keep you down.

In staying clean, fear is the enemy.

Avoid letting other peoples/groups opinions/dogmas/judgements weigh you down.

Remember, when you get clean, that monkey on your back (or 900 pound gorilla, or whatever) doesn’t go away. It climbs up into your head.

One of the keys to staying clean is not allowing that monkey in your head to get louder than the music in your heart.

_.dave

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mark,

Don’t beat yourself up about copping. It makes sense that you wanted have one last go with your dear old friend. Time to say goodbye.

Maybe have your mom or a friend clean your place when you go to Mexico, it’ll be nice to come back to a clean home. You will have four to six weeks where there will be this nice wide door open for you to go through and make a new life. It is up to you to go through, and there will be all sorts of energy which can pull you back. Iboga is not a magic pill. Most will relapse. People like us don’t do well with an occasional dabble and you will feel so good and strong that the thought “well I can certainly handle one little shot, now that I’m healed” is not correct. Remember that cravings are like a wave, they come, they go.

If you are the go with god sort, AA can help, but it ain’t for all. It always made me want to go cop. Some people like SMART recovery. The clinic will give you the SMART work book which has some great tools to help you. I’ve found going to a movie helps. Jacking off gets your mind off it. Or if you are feeling loaded for bear, jack off at a movie. Sounds like you will be better off staying off the booze. Weed may help. When you get back to NYC, try Bikram yoga. There are plenty of studios in the city and it will help build the endorphins back up and the sweating will help clean your body up. They give a special for new people, unlimited classes for ten days for $20. A good place to meet girls. I took the teacher training awhile back and there were all these ex-junkies who kicked and stayed clean with the yoga. My friend Adam has said that the Bikram Yoga has helped him more than anything else in staying clean afterwards. Have you checked out “Keeping Clean” on mind-vox?

If you are thinking of quiting smoking, start before the ibo, go on the patch or something. Don’t expect to stop with the ibogaine.

I’m very excited and hopeful for you.

B
From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 20:36:57 -0700 (PDT)

I’m fine spent the day with my mom. I didn’t seem like it even made sense to go to work. But I’m fine. Just got home and watching the movie Bird (Charlie Parker). Just feel like vegging . To answer your question about do I feel it. I have to do 6 or 7 bags at a time so it can get kinda skechy because if its poison then I just shot a shit load of posison or at least i’m shooting a lot of cut. i wish i think like this when i’m drunk! Who knows maybe I’ll look back and it will turn out to be the last time. Certainly not before I leave so hopefully not ever. i guess the best way to explain my dope use is i kinda feel sometimes when i’m not feeling great about myself “well i’m already on enough meth to kill a horse so whats the differnce if i act like a real junky every once and a while” but i just feel that once I’m free from narcitocs and not addicted i’ll be afraid to take a freakin codine. Anyway i hope i’m free of this shit.

CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
Mc….Do you feel the dope you shoot while on Methadone? I never have and thought that regular use of 50mg or more blocks any rush or euphoria from opiate or opiate like dope.
I hope you don’t do something crazy like that again! You could’ve been arrested and that might have fucked up all your good plans!
I am kind of glad it didn’t feel good. Sorry, just the truth.
Try to take it easy today. Wish you lived close to me….I would be happy to spend the days leading up to you leaving with you. I am with you in thought though.
You hang in there! Do not sabotage this or yourself. I have a tendency to do that and I have no reason why but it drives my Methadone counselor batty!! Maybe all of us addicts sabotage our happiness and don’t even realize it!
I don’t know how you feel about 12 step meetings but one or two might help if you are feeling shitty and are tempted to do something else stupid tonight. I think it would be better to be around some clean/sober folks instead of being alone with your self destructiveness.
Does the clinic you are going to be treated at have a hotline number? Maybe you should find out. You could even call and chat with them. I will be happy to give you my number if you e-mail me privately.
Treat yourself good today. Take a walk if weather is permitting.
Keep in touch! Hugs and more hugs!
Callie

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From: Patrick K. Kroupa <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran
Date: July 23, 2004 at 3:09:52 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Jul 22, 2004, at 11:36 PM, mcorcoran wrote:

I’m fine spent the day with my mom. I didn’t seem like it even made sense to go to work. But I’m fine. Just got home and watching the movie Bird (Charlie Parker). Just feel like vegging . To answer your question about do I feel it. I have to do 6 or 7 bags at a time so it can get kinda skechy because if its poison then I just shot a shit load of posison or at least i’m shooting a lot of cut. i wish i think like this when i’m drunk! Who knows maybe I’ll look back and it will turn out to be the last time. Certainly not before I leave so hopefully not ever. i guess the best way to explain my dope use is i kinda feel sometimes when  i’m not feeling great about myself “well i’m already on enough meth to kill a horse so whats the differnce if i act like a real junky every once and a while” but i just feel that once I’m free from narcitocs and not addicted i’ll be afraid to take a freakin codine. Anyway i hope i’m free of this shit.

Dude,

If it’s any consolation, nearly 5 years later I feel exactly the same way.  If I iz superman … narcotic analgesics = kryptonite.

I’ve had oral surgery and teeFs implanted without anything ‘cept Vioxx and acetaminophen.  Ouch.  It hurtS It hurtS!!@!!!  “I’m sure, I just sawed down your gums and screwed teeth into your jawbone!  Don’t worry, I’ll write you for some Percocet!”  Uh … this is the part where I EXPLAIN that Percs don’t work for me, but there is this thing called Dilaudid which truly rocks!  “Ok, I’ll write you for that!”  And then … and theN, then comes the BEST PART where I do one.  Realize I’m not clean anymore anyway, so why not toss 5 into a cooker, cold shake, bang up, and PRESTO!!!!  The romance begins again!!!  Wooo HooOOooOOooOO.  I love dope!!!

Uh … pardon me, calming down.  It’s late, just … telling myself a happy little story.  Don’t read any of that.

So, uhm, basically … everything you said makes perfect sense to me!  Just make sure you’re utterly fucked up when you get on the plane.  Skip the guilt, and enjoy your flight!  I sure did my last time.

In other words: I think … everything you’re thinking, feeling, and experiencing … is shit that everybody who has made it, has also felt.

None of it prevents you from stepping out of drug dependence.  You’re perfectly normal … for a dopefiend.  What I’m saying is … 5 years later.  All the thoughts going through your head, are no different than what passes through mine, or anybody else’s — who has managed to clean up.

Fuck everybody, do the ibogaine, see what it gives you, and then after that, start taking some advice.  If at all possible.

If intellectual understanding of what you’re doing was enough to stop.  Well, you really wouldn’t need to do ibogaine in the first place.

Peace dude, and enjoy.  It’s a cool plane of existence to visit.

Mc….Do you feel the dope you shoot while on Methadone? I never have and thought that regular use of 50mg or more blocks any rush or euphoria from opiate or opiate like dope.

This is not true.  Different people respond in different ways to the theoretical receptor saturation.  I was on 200mg of methadone, and still felt dope.  ‘Course, you’re not gonna feel one bag.  It’s more like bangin’ a bundle at a time.

Patrick

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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran
Date: July 23, 2004 at 2:14:54 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Mark,

good stuff being said here.

I’ll ditto Mister Anker, read “keeping clean” on ibogaine.mindvox.com

we are behind you 200%. Some of us have been right where you are now, so this is all good for all of us.

a little quote from my NA Daze:.

“the theraputic value of one addict helping another is without parallel!” Its a two-way street. You are helping me stay clean, right here, right now.

and I’ll say my little getting/keeping clean spiel here for kicks:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
uhm…

If you “relapse/slip/use/stumble/get loaded/fuckup/freakout/fall” -pick yourself back up ASAP, dust yourself off and move on. Avoid getting mired down in guilt, shame, remorse or pity. These are fear-based stumbling blocks and will keep you down.

In staying clean, fear is the enemy.

Avoid letting other peoples/groups opinions/dogmas/judgements weigh you down.

Remember, when you get clean, that monkey on your back (or 900 pound gorilla, or whatever) doesn’t go away. It climbs up into your head.

One of the keys to staying clean is not allowing that monkey in your head to get louder than the music in your heart.

_.dave

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mark,

Don’t beat yourself up about copping. It makes sense that you wanted have one last go with your dear old friend. Time to say goodbye.

Maybe have your mom or a friend clean your place when you go to Mexico, it’ll be nice to come back to a clean home. You will have four to six weeks where there will be this nice wide door open for you to go through and make a new life. It is up to you to go through, and there will be all sorts of energy which can pull you back. Iboga is not a magic pill. Most will relapse. People like us don’t do well with an occasional dabble and you will feel so good and strong that the thought “well I can certainly handle one little shot, now that I’m healed” is not correct. Remember that cravings are like a wave, they come, they go.

If you are the go with god sort, AA can help, but it ain’t for all. It always made me want to go cop. Some people like SMART recovery. The clinic will give you the SMART work book which has some great tools to help you. I’ve found going to a movie helps. Jacking off gets your mind off it. Or if you are feeling loaded for bear, jack off at a movie. Sounds like you will be better off staying off the booze. Weed may help. When you get back to NYC, try Bikram yoga. There are plenty of studios in the city and it will help build the endorphins back up and the sweating will help clean your body up. They give a special for new people, unlimited classes for ten days for $20. A good place to meet girls. I took the teacher training awhile back and there were all these ex-junkies who kicked and stayed clean with the yoga. My friend Adam has said that the Bikram Yoga has helped him more than anything else in staying clean afterwards. Have you checked out “Keeping Clean” on mind-vox?

If you are thinking of quiting smoking, start before the ibo, go on the patch or something. Don’t expect to stop with the ibogaine.

I’m very excited and hopeful for you.

B
From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 20:36:57 -0700 (PDT)

I’m fine spent the day with my mom. I didn’t seem like it even made sense to go to work. But I’m fine. Just got home and watching the movie Bird (Charlie Parker). Just feel like vegging . To answer your question about do I feel it. I have to do 6 or 7 bags at a time so it can get kinda skechy because if its poison then I just shot a shit load of posison or at least i’m shooting a lot of cut. i wish i think like this when i’m drunk! Who knows maybe I’ll look back and it will turn out to be the last time. Certainly not before I leave so hopefully not ever. i guess the best way to explain my dope use is i kinda feel sometimes when  i’m not feeling great about myself “well i’m already on enough meth to kill a horse so whats the differnce if i act like a real junky every once and a while” but i just feel that once I’m free from narcitocs and not addicted i’ll be afraid to take a freakin codine. Anyway i hope i’m free of this shit.

CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
Mc….Do you feel the dope you shoot while on Methadone? I never have and thought that regular use of 50mg or more blocks any rush or euphoria from opiate or opiate like dope.
I hope you don’t do something crazy like that again! You could’ve been arrested and that might have fucked up all your good plans!
I am kind of glad it didn’t feel good. Sorry, just the truth.
Try to take it easy today. Wish you lived close to me….I would be happy to spend the days leading up to you leaving with you. I am with you in thought though.
You hang in there! Do not sabotage this or yourself. I have a tendency to do that and I have no reason why but it drives my Methadone counselor batty!! Maybe all of us addicts sabotage our happiness and don’t even realize it!
I don’t know how you feel about 12 step meetings but one or two might help if you are feeling shitty and are tempted to do something else stupid tonight. I think it would be better to be around some clean/sober folks instead of being alone with your self destructiveness.
Does the clinic you are going to be treated at have a hotline number? Maybe you should find out. You could even call and chat with them. I will be happy to give you my number if you e-mail me privately.
Treat yourself good today. Take a walk if weather is permitting.
Keep in touch! Hugs and more hugs!
Callie

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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_________________________________________________________________
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From: “Steven Anker” <stevenanker@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran
Date: July 23, 2004 at 1:50:02 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Mark,

Don’t beat yourself up about copping. It makes sense that you wanted have one last go with your dear old friend. Time to say goodbye.

Maybe have your mom or a friend clean your place when you go to Mexico, it’ll be nice to come back to a clean home. You will have four to six weeks where there will be this nice wide door open for you to go through and make a new life. It is up to you to go through, and there will be all sorts of energy which can pull you back. Iboga is not a magic pill. Most will relapse. People like us don’t do well with an occasional dabble and you will feel so good and strong that the thought “well I can certainly handle one little shot, now that I’m healed” is not correct. Remember that cravings are like a wave, they come, they go.

If you are the go with god sort, AA can help, but it ain’t for all. It always made me want to go cop. Some people like SMART recovery. The clinic will give you the SMART work book which has some great tools to help you. I’ve found going to a movie helps. Jacking off gets your mind off it. Or if you are feeling loaded for bear, jack off at a movie. Sounds like you will be better off staying off the booze. Weed may help. When you get back to NYC, try Bikram yoga. There are plenty of studios in the city and it will help build the endorphins back up and the sweating will help clean your body up. They give a special for new people, unlimited classes for ten days for $20. A good place to meet girls. I took the teacher training awhile back and there were all these ex-junkies who kicked and stayed clean with the yoga. My friend Adam has said that the Bikram Yoga has helped him more than anything else in staying clean afterwards. Have you checked out “Keeping Clean” on mind-vox?

If you are thinking of quiting smoking, start before the ibo, go on the patch or something. Don’t expect to stop with the ibogaine.

I’m very excited and hopeful for you.

B
From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 20:36:57 -0700 (PDT)

I’m fine spent the day with my mom. I didn’t seem like it even made sense to go to work. But I’m fine. Just got home and watching the movie Bird (Charlie Parker). Just feel like vegging . To answer your question about do I feel it. I have to do 6 or 7 bags at a time so it can get kinda skechy because if its poison then I just shot a shit load of posison or at least i’m shooting a lot of cut. i wish i think like this when i’m drunk! Who knows maybe I’ll look back and it will turn out to be the last time. Certainly not before I leave so hopefully not ever. i guess the best way to explain my dope use is i kinda feel sometimes when  i’m not feeling great about myself “well i’m already on enough meth to kill a horse so whats the differnce if i act like a real junky every once and a while” but i just feel that once I’m free from narcitocs and not addicted i’ll be afraid to take a freakin codine. Anyway i hope i’m free of this shit.

CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
Mc….Do you feel the dope you shoot while on Methadone? I never have and thought that regular use of 50mg or more blocks any rush or euphoria from opiate or opiate like dope.
I hope you don’t do something crazy like that again! You could’ve been arrested and that might have fucked up all your good plans!
I am kind of glad it didn’t feel good. Sorry, just the truth.
Try to take it easy today. Wish you lived close to me….I would be happy to spend the days leading up to you leaving with you. I am with you in thought though.
You hang in there! Do not sabotage this or yourself. I have a tendency to do that and I have no reason why but it drives my Methadone counselor batty!! Maybe all of us addicts sabotage our happiness and don’t even realize it!
I don’t know how you feel about 12 step meetings but one or two might help if you are feeling shitty and are tempted to do something else stupid tonight. I think it would be better to be around some clean/sober folks instead of being alone with your self destructiveness.
Does the clinic you are going to be treated at have a hotline number? Maybe you should find out. You could even call and chat with them. I will be happy to give you my number if you e-mail me privately.
Treat yourself good today. Take a walk if weather is permitting.
Keep in touch! Hugs and more hugs!
Callie

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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_________________________________________________________________
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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran
Date: July 22, 2004 at 11:36:57 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m fine spent the day with my mom. I didn’t seem like it even made sense to go to work. But I’m fine. Just got home and watching the movie Bird (Charlie Parker). Just feel like vegging . To answer your question about do I feel it. I have to do 6 or 7 bags at a time so it can get kinda skechy because if its poison then I just shot a shit load of posison or at least i’m shooting a lot of cut. i wish i think like this when i’m drunk! Who knows maybe I’ll look back and it will turn out to be the last time. Certainly not before I leave so hopefully not ever. i guess the best way to explain my dope use is i kinda feel sometimes when  i’m not feeling great about myself “well i’m already on enough meth to kill a horse so whats the differnce if i act like a real junky every once and a while” but i just feel that once I’m free from narcitocs and not addicted i’ll be afraid to take a freakin codine. Anyway i hope i’m free of this shit.

CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
Mc….Do you feel the dope you shoot while on Methadone? I never have and thought that regular use of 50mg or more blocks any rush or euphoria from opiate or opiate like dope.
I hope you don’t do something crazy like that again! You could’ve been arrested and that might have fucked up all your good plans!
I am kind of glad it didn’t feel good. Sorry, just the truth.
Try to take it easy today. Wish you lived close to me….I would be happy to spend the days leading up to you leaving with you. I am with you in thought though.
You hang in there! Do not sabotage this or yourself. I have a tendency to do that and I have no reason why but it drives my Methadone counselor batty!! Maybe all of us addicts sabotage our happiness and don’t even realize it!
I don’t know how you feel about 12 step meetings but one or two might help if you are feeling shitty and are tempted to do something else stupid tonight. I think it would be better to be around some clean/sober folks instead of being alone with your self destructiveness.
Does the clinic you are going to be treated at have a hotline number? Maybe you should find out. You could even call and chat with them. I will be happy to give you my number if you e-mail me privately.
Treat yourself good today. Take a walk if weather is permitting.
Keep in touch! Hugs and more hugs!
Callie
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com

From: “AG” <adamg@013.net.il>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran
Date: July 22, 2004 at 9:08:41 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

we’re all here cuz we’re not all here.

-oh and,

I drink, therefore I ain’t.

AG

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 1:23 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran

Maybe all of us addicts sabotage our happiness and don’t even realize
it!<

Unfortunately, I usually realize it and often it still doesn’t/didn’t stop
me.
But you’re right Callie, I think many if not most addicts do tend to
sabatoge themselves, which is part and parcel with addiction anyway, no?
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 12:22 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran

Mc….Do you feel the dope you shoot while on Methadone? I never have and
thought that regular use of 50mg or more blocks any rush or euphoria from
opiate or opiate like dope.
I hope you don’t do something crazy like that again! You could’ve been
arrested and that might have fucked up all your good plans!
I am kind of glad it didn’t feel good. Sorry, just the truth.
Try to take it easy today. Wish you lived close to me….I would be happy
to
spend the days leading up to you leaving with you. I am with you in
thought
though.
You hang in there! Do not sabotage this or yourself. I have a tendency to
do
that and I have no reason why but it drives my Methadone counselor batty!!
Maybe all of us addicts sabotage our happiness and don’t even realize it!
I don’t know how you feel about 12 step meetings but one or two might help
if you are feeling shitty and are tempted to do something else stupid
tonight. I think it would be better to be around some clean/sober folks
instead of being alone with your self destructiveness.
Does the clinic you are going to be treated at have a hotline number?
Maybe
you should find out. You could even call and chat with them. I will be
happy
to give you my number if you e-mail me privately.
Treat yourself good today. Take a walk if weather is permitting.
Keep in touch! Hugs and more hugs!
Callie

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] 11111111111 (smoking tobacco on withdrawa)
Date: July 22, 2004 at 7:32:02 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

no, actually quite the opposite.

heroin & tobacco… mmm mmm good.

smoking while kicking made me puke.<

Um, DH, I think you’re missing what I wrote- it’s not opposite at all, it
reads like you and I (and whoever it was who originally posed that question,
but the name of whom escapes me right now) have Exactly the same viewpoint
here.
;-))
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: D H
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 1:26 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] 11111111111 (smoking tobacco on withdrawa)

When I’m on withdrawal; smoking tobacco comes to me so ugly thing but I
can’t stop myself and I smoke it. Is there anyone feel the same way with me
about smoking tobacco on withdrawal?

no, actually quite the opposite.

heroin & tobacco… mmm mmm good.

smoking while kicking made me puke.

post acute withdrawal, yes I’d start smoking again.

and how.

funny thing about all them 12 step meetings back in the day… and treatment
too… “we forbid any mind or mood altering substances… except tobacco and
caffeine”, one of which is known to cause cancer among other pleasant side
effects.

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Bupe and depression
Date: July 22, 2004 at 7:26:06 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

but from all the data I’ve seen and read, you will still have a great
experience regardless of dose of opiates.<

I thought part of this need to not being doing opiates, to be in some form
of withdrawals before actually taking ibogaine , is because the opiates are
much, much stronger while on ibogaine. Is this not the case afterall?
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 12:23 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Bupe and depression

Yeah, Jim, Two people I spoke with about the wellbutrin advised me to stop
taking it a couple of weeks before. I intend to stop everything except maybe
my diabetes medicine.Of course the meth I won’t stop but those two people
said the same thing to me that I should take the Ibo just when I’m starting
to feel withdrawal-Not full blown but right when it begins. Though I intend
to do this, I will tell you this: If I didn’t think I could handle the ill
feelings, I would do the Ibo at whatever dose I was comfortable at. I know I
am far from any kind of knowledgeable person re: Ibo, but from all the data
I’ve seen and read, you will still have a great experience regardless of
dose of opiates. I agree with these two that the experience might be more
intense on lower doses, but I don’t think anyone should be too concerned or
neurotic about their opiate dose. My opinion only……………………

Regards my man,

Julian

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran
Date: July 22, 2004 at 7:23:42 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Maybe all of us addicts sabotage our happiness and don’t even realize it!<

Unfortunately, I usually realize it and often it still doesn’t/didn’t stop
me.
But you’re right Callie, I think many if not most addicts do tend to
sabatoge themselves, which is part and parcel with addiction anyway, no?
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 12:22 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran

Mc….Do you feel the dope you shoot while on Methadone? I never have and
thought that regular use of 50mg or more blocks any rush or euphoria from
opiate or opiate like dope.
I hope you don’t do something crazy like that again! You could’ve been
arrested and that might have fucked up all your good plans!
I am kind of glad it didn’t feel good. Sorry, just the truth.
Try to take it easy today. Wish you lived close to me….I would be happy to
spend the days leading up to you leaving with you. I am with you in thought
though.
You hang in there! Do not sabotage this or yourself. I have a tendency to do
that and I have no reason why but it drives my Methadone counselor batty!!
Maybe all of us addicts sabotage our happiness and don’t even realize it!
I don’t know how you feel about 12 step meetings but one or two might help
if you are feeling shitty and are tempted to do something else stupid
tonight. I think it would be better to be around some clean/sober folks
instead of being alone with your self destructiveness.
Does the clinic you are going to be treated at have a hotline number? Maybe
you should find out. You could even call and chat with them. I will be happy
to give you my number if you e-mail me privately.
Treat yourself good today. Take a walk if weather is permitting.
Keep in touch! Hugs and more hugs!
Callie

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran
Date: July 22, 2004 at 7:18:51 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

It just disgusts me but iot has a tedincy of happening when I get a lIttle
drunk.<

Yer not the first I’ve heard this from Mark, including from my own
mouth/mind. ALcohol has sa tendency to lower my defences anyway. It used to
be crack I’d run to after getting drunk. But nowadays it’s so rare to get
drunk I usually am too incapacitated to run get anything, much less crack.
I was hoping to see you last night but obviously we didn’t, soooo. next
time perhaps?

All my friends go home to there normal lives and I go to Harlem.<

Used to have totally stright co-worked drop me off in the worst parts of
town at time- once I Had a group of young college kids, new co-workers, at
an Upper Crust Pizza I was waiting table at in Atlanta, drive me home, on
New Years Eve to Grant Park, still in Atlanta. At the very tip top of the
hill sat our house, and at the bottom, on the other side of the Atlanta Zoo,
was crack central. As we drove into this very dark and scary neighborhood,
some huge black guy stepped out in his porch and fired off all the rounds in
his handgun, straight up into the air, at the stroke of midnight to
celebrate the New Year thing. It was all I could do to get these kids to
stop the car long enough for me to climb out and walk the rest of the way to
my crack source. Those kids peeled out, burning rubber like their lives
depended upon it- and I couldn’t really blame them. But it’s weird being the
only one to be meandering into the drug markets that others my age don’t
even know exist.

I’m not going to beat myself up but its long sleeves today in 90 degrees
and I’m going out to have dinner with my family so they might be the ones
doing the beating.<

Don’t beat yourself up over it Mark, it ain’t worth it.
Wishing you the very, very best of luck and other positive vibes in Mexico.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: mcorcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 11:36 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran

Thanks again. I’m feelin kinda digusted with myself this morning because
last night I got kinda drunk with a few opf my friends and then when
everyone went there spereate ways I started to think about this (and none of
them know) but I started thinking about one good last shot. So needless to
say I circumed  to it and it gave me a terrible hardache (severse me right)
and I went satraight to bed. I woke up this morning with the plan to go down
to 80 and I heald off until tomorrow becasue my whole body was hurting.
It just disgusts me but iot has a tedincy of happening when I get a lIttle
drunk. All my friends go home to there normal lives and I go to Harlem. Oh
well I’m lookin at a new begininng in just two days and maybe that really
was the last time. God, there have been so many last times… too many last
times. I’m not going to beat myself up but its long sleeves today in 90
degrees and I’m going out to have dinner with my family so they might be the
ones doing the beating.
I’m going to take mny laptop on the train and respond to all of the
wonderful messages I’ve recieved in the past few days.
This time two days from now I’ll be 3,000 miles away with one bottle. Time
to face this bitch for once and for all.
-M.

Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi Mcorcoran,

Like I said the odds are on your side.  Everyone seems to be the happier for
taking the treatment.  Many are trying to save up the money to have it.
Addiction sucks, no doubt about it.  Think now, you have had input from half
the people on the forum, people who are quite experienced.  Go there, clean
up and get back to your life, you got a lot of years left.  Oh, one more
thing, the place you work for most likely will not give you a good reference
so I would let them fire me.  If they fire you for getting medical help you
will at least get unemployment, if you quit you don’t get anything, I have
seen more help on this forum than anywhere else.  You will be fine, you
think we’re all bullshitting ya?   We’ve all been there and many of us have
been to worse places.  Just don’t relapse.

Relax, you will be fine

– JIM

CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 7/21/2004 5:02:13 PM Central Daylight Time,
mcorcoran27@yahoo.com writes:
Oh my God a week !!!!!! I had this thought today that me and this big fuckin
habit of mine were finally coming face to face and I’m going to have every
expectation that this bitch is not gonna let go without a fight and although
I know its anyones fight and I’m not gonna win without getting a little
fucked up but I will prevail.
Bless you! You have so many questions and anxieties. My advice to you is too
let it all go. Do the next right thing and all will be fine. Have faith in
your higher power. You have been led to this list and to Ibogaine. It is not
a coincidence.
As far as your job….I think you are wise not to quit. In fact, I encourage
you to make as few major changes as you can.
Let Ibogaine be the change you make. Quitting dope goes with the Ibogaine
change. That is a HUGE life change and will bring on some stress.
You can do it though if you keep the rest of your life as familiar as
possible.
I am so excited for you! For this reason I will be happy when this ordeal is
over for you!
Callie

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] AnyoneFormer’done gone2Bupe
Date: July 22, 2004 at 5:40:53 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I think I may of not made myself clear on the last post.  I was in detox and did not go through w/d when given the narcon or naltraxon.  However, if I had cheated and taken a few narcotics in with me it would of been hell.

D.H.  you did the right thing flushing the stuff away.  I am not one to throw away drugs, sorta like throwing away food with all the starving people in the world.  But in 6 months or a year you may of given in to the craving and have to start from square one.  Glad you stayed stright.

– JIM
Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi Callie,

I think there may have a slight mix up. There is Narcan that is the brand name; naloxone which will only bother you if you shoot it up.  You can take it via mouth and the stomach acids will destroy it.  Or so they say.

Naltrexone on the other hand is used by addicts to keep clean, much like antabuse for the alcoholics.  It is a 50 mg pill that is swallowed and last up to day or so.  It is a very dangerous thing to try and override for you feel nothing but then you do just a little bit more then you OD.  But it counteracts the narcotic, thus you feel nothing and do not bother to use.  But you must be clean anywhere from two to three weeks depending on how much you were using.  Then they give you a shot of Narcan VERY slowly before giving you Naltrexone.  The Narcan is a short acting antagonist and you will be in w/d for 4 hours.  If you take Naltrexone you will be in w/d much longer.  At least that is what happened to me in detox.  I could get the Naltrexone for free via mail or pay about $100 for 30 pills.  Well like a fool I sent in through the mail and the cravings got to me before the pills.  But that was many years ago, I got to learn to quit kicking my ass over it.  The detox center was sorta like go in the detox room and suffer, no Imodium, nothing to help you sleep, nothing for nausea, just catapress which did not help much when your doing over $100 per day.  And then it is NA and AA meetings.  Damn was I sick.

If I am wrong on this please, somebody, call it to my attention.

Hey some good news.

A strange thing happeded today.  The first call I made to a doc said they do the bupe thing.  I asked if they used Subutex and they said no they used ??? and damn it I did not catch what she said.  There are two kinds of bupe Subutex and some other kind with the Narcan in it to stop users from shooting it up, just like the Talwin.  If anyone had problems with the Narcan causeing withdrawal please let me know.

I really hate going to new docs, filling out the forms, answering the questions, etc. but if I get the bupe and it helps with the depression I will be happy.  But as one person on the forum said that there are those clinics that just detox you for there is more money to be made than by maintaining you.  So I guess I will just have to go and play it by ear.  I have learned a lot on this forum, I am so glad it is here.  Good luck to everyone.

– JIM

CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 7/22/2004 3:54:39 AM Central Daylight Time, BiscuitBoy714@aol.com writes:
naltrexone reacting to the meth in me

Personally I hate naltrexone use in addiction! It serves no purpose except to make you feel like shit and a bundle of nerves. I feel it should only be used in the Emergency Room and should be used there only in life/death situations!
The folks I know who have taken it in Talwin or was given it in ER for overdoses have NEVER felt like they did before Naltrexone. Kind of like Antabuse and alcohol.
Callie

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] AnyoneFormer’done gone2Bupe
Date: July 22, 2004 at 5:19:12 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Callie,

I think there may have a slight mix up. There is Narcan that is the brand name; naloxone which will only bother you if you shoot it up.  You can take it via mouth and the stomach acids will destroy it.  Or so they say.

Naltrexone on the other hand is used by addicts to keep clean, much like antabuse for the alcoholics.  It is a 50 mg pill that is swallowed and last up to day or so.  It is a very dangerous thing to try and override for you feel nothing but then you do just a little bit more then you OD.  But it counteracts the narcotic, thus you feel nothing and do not bother to use.  But you must be clean anywhere from two to three weeks depending on how much you were using.  Then they give you a shot of Narcan VERY slowly before giving you Naltrexone.  The Narcan is a short acting antagonist and you will be in w/d for 4 hours.  If you take Naltrexone you will be in w/d much longer.  At least that is what happened to me in detox.  I could get the Naltrexone for free via mail or pay about $100 for 30 pills.  Well like a fool I sent in through the mail and the cravings got to me before the pills.  But that was many years ago, I got to learn to quit kicking my ass over it.  The detox center was sorta like go in the detox room and suffer, no Imodium, nothing to help you sleep, nothing for nausea, just catapress which did not help much when your doing over $100 per day.  And then it is NA and AA meetings.  Damn was I sick.

If I am wrong on this please, somebody, call it to my attention.

Hey some good news.

A strange thing happeded today.  The first call I made to a doc said they do the bupe thing.  I asked if they used Subutex and they said no they used ??? and damn it I did not catch what she said.  There are two kinds of bupe Subutex and some other kind with the Narcan in it to stop users from shooting it up, just like the Talwin.  If anyone had problems with the Narcan causeing withdrawal please let me know.

I really hate going to new docs, filling out the forms, answering the questions, etc. but if I get the bupe and it helps with the depression I will be happy.  But as one person on the forum said that there are those clinics that just detox you for there is more money to be made than by maintaining you.  So I guess I will just have to go and play it by ear.  I have learned a lot on this forum, I am so glad it is here.  Good luck to everyone.

– JIM

CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 7/22/2004 3:54:39 AM Central Daylight Time, BiscuitBoy714@aol.com writes:
naltrexone reacting to the meth in me

Personally I hate naltrexone use in addiction! It serves no purpose except to make you feel like shit and a bundle of nerves. I feel it should only be used in the Emergency Room and should be used there only in life/death situations!
The folks I know who have taken it in Talwin or was given it in ER for overdoses have NEVER felt like they did before Naltrexone. Kind of like Antabuse and alcohol.
Callie

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From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] 11111111111 (smoking tobacco on withdrawa)
Date: July 22, 2004 at 3:36:23 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hell yes!  When I did H I smoked n smoked-my boyf would go crazy coz he’d go
to bed with a full pouch of baccy n then wake up and I’d sat up all night
chain-smoking the lot.  I mean totally chain-smoking.  But as soon as I
detox  I hate the taste.  And for some strange reason I still smoke a bit.

lol!
—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 1:43 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] 11111111111 (smoking tobacco on withdrawa)

When I’m on withdrawal; smoking tobacco comes to me so ugly thing but I
can’t stop myself and I smoke it. Is there anyone feel the same way with
me
about smoking tobacco on withdrawal?<

An emphatic yes here. Cigs taste like shit when I’m even only slightly
withdarwing, yet they also help calm me down then, even tasting as awful
as
they always do in that state. I mean it, I get this horrid taste I’m not
ever aware of when not in opiated states, but like you Fake, I do not stop
entirely stop smoking- though I do usually smoke a lot less in those
times.
One would think, or at least I would, that this wouldn’t be the case, that
due to needing something, anything to cut through the withdrawal hell I
would basically gobble up tobacco cigs, but it’s simpl not the case.
So yes, I empathize with you.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: FakePlacebo
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 3:45 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] 11111111111 (smoking tobacco on withdrawa)

Dear Friends,
When I’m on withdrawal; smoking tobacco comes to me so ugly thing but I
can’t stop myself and I smoke it. Is there anyone feel the same way with
me
about smoking tobacco on withdrawal?

Best Regards
FakePlacebo
—– Original Message —–
From: iboga@ziplip.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 8:28 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] 11111111111

Jon,
Thank you for your reply.  It is good to hear the other side to better
understand.  I understand the compulsion part and the lack of appitite,
but
I had never heard of aches and pain and sickness resulting from stopping
marijauana use after use.  I’ curious if similar case have been reported
from tobacco use?  Regardless, I think Prohibition of it promotes
terrorism
and drug use and I believe the war on drugs is a war not designed to
succeed
and that organized crime has made so much that it has saturated media,
political parties and has created the prison industrial complex that
continues to grow and grow as will the budget for the War on Drugs,
expecially things like the ‘Victory Act’ which links drug use with
terrorism, not drug prohibition, drug use.
But for real Jon thank you for your reply, I will be looking into it
futher
and hope if you run across anything new let me know,
Be Well,
Jason

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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: [ibogaine] sorry ,
Date: July 22, 2004 at 2:26:44 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

My last email was for Howard and Norma,

Sorry for the wrong email address.

S.

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Pikturez = thousand WordS
Date: July 22, 2004 at 1:39:32 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I gotta admit Dave, you look healthier and stronger grimacing with the GODS! I also gotaa admit I cringe watching you throw all that meth away. Too bad we didn’t know each other back then. Really though, the picture is a good ad for getting your shit on!

Regards,
Julian

Regarding tossing the methadone…

Originally my plan was to bring the methadone home with me and sell it.

But the Bwiti instructed me otherwise.

Its the only dope I’ve ever thrown out, except maybe a few pills here and there during my 12 step indoctrination daze.

_.dh

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] 11111111111 (smoking tobacco on withdrawa)
Date: July 22, 2004 at 1:26:52 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

When I’m on withdrawal; smoking tobacco comes to me so ugly thing but I can’t stop myself and I smoke it. Is there anyone feel the same way with me about smoking tobacco on withdrawal?

no, actually quite the opposite.

heroin & tobacco… mmm mmm good.

smoking while kicking made me puke.

post acute withdrawal, yes I’d start smoking again.

and how.

funny thing about all them 12 step meetings back in the day… and treatment too… “we forbid any mind or mood altering substances… except tobacco and caffeine”, one of which is known to cause cancer among other pleasant side effects.

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: [ibogaine] Dear Howard&Norma
Date: July 22, 2004 at 12:57:00 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I like to share with you few emails with a patient,

Also  Carl has no Cancer which is really good news, the operation is not completed so he has to stay another week
At the hospital.
I had an email from Ben saying he is back from Gabon.
All the best ,

Sara

========================================
Van: nick  cams [mailto:soup@fsmail.net] 
Verzonden: dinsdag 20 juli 2004 14:29
Aan: Sara Glatt
Onderwerp: Re: RE: Sorry I haven’t been in touch sooner
Thankyou so much,i cant thankyou enough.I would really like to come back. I got a lot out of the last time,and beleive that another stay with you would take me to where i want to be,and answer my prayers. Im tottaly broke,so it would take me a couple of weeks to get the cash together,to be able to come.I will phone you as soon as i get some cash or somebody lets me use they’re phone. Your such beautifull people.Will be in touch soon. Thankyou.

Message date : Jul 20 2004, 01:38 PM
From : “Sara Glatt” 
To : soup@fsmail.net
Copy to : 
Subject : RE: RE: Sorry I haven’t been in touch sooner
Hi Nick,

look at http://www.basiqair.com/nl

they are really cheap to fly.

take care,
sara

Hi Sara
Sorry yesterday I didn’t get to say exactly what I mean. The place I use to email  from can be crap. As I was emailing you, a band started to practice and I’m not to good with computors, so I got confused and didn’t explain myself properly.
I got so much out of the iboga. My mind has been so much clearer since I did it and everyone who knows I did the iboga says that I’m a totally different person. I know that another session would take me to where I want to be.
I’m in a mess at the moment, doing 3-4 bags a day and I can’t bring myself down. You giving me another chance has been the answer to my prayers, a chance to to get my life back. I feel a lot more grounded in myself. Amanda having left me the way she did really opened my eyes and made me realise I want to, and have to get clean for myself, no-one else.
My present situation is complicated. My money situation is really bad. I’m in debt to a dealer and can’t go anywhere until the debt is cleared. I don’t get a giro for another two weeks and am living day to day.
I don’t want you to think I’ve taken your offer for granted. I know what a busy woman you are and I’m really grateful and honoured that you have asked me to come back, especially after all the shit you’ve been through recently with Adrian and other piss takers like him. I can’t thank you enough. I will ring you on Monday to chat further.
Please send my love to Carl the children
Thank you Sara for everything
Love Nick

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] 11111111111
Date: July 22, 2004 at 12:36:27 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

No, I think oxygen is the worst! After 49 years I still can’t live without it! Damn what a bitch!!!

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Pikturez = thousand WordS
Date: July 22, 2004 at 12:30:20 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I gotta admit Dave, you look healthier and stronger grimacing with the GODS! I also gotaa admit I cringe watching you throw all that meth away. Too bad we didn’t know each other back then. Really though, the picture is a good ad for getting your shit on!

Regards,
Julian

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] AnyoneFormer’done gone2Bupe
Date: July 22, 2004 at 12:27:21 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/22/2004 3:54:39 AM Central Daylight Time, BiscuitBoy714@aol.com writes:
naltrexone reacting to the meth in me

Personally I hate naltrexone use in addiction! It serves no purpose except to make you feel like shit and a bundle of nerves. I feel it should only be used in the Emergency Room and should be used there only in life/death situations!
The folks I know who have taken it in Talwin or was given it in ER for overdoses have NEVER felt like they did before Naltrexone. Kind of like Antabuse and alcohol.
Callie

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Help Follow-up 93 WIRED article
Date: July 22, 2004 at 12:26:36 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

 

?

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Bupe and depression
Date: July 22, 2004 at 12:23:27 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yeah, Jim, Two people I spoke with about the wellbutrin advised me to stop taking it a couple of weeks before. I intend to stop everything except maybe my diabetes medicine.Of course the meth I won’t stop but those two people said the same thing to me that I should take the Ibo just when I’m starting to feel withdrawal-Not full blown but right when it begins. Though I intend to do this, I will tell you this: If I didn’t think I could handle the ill feelings, I would do the Ibo at whatever dose I was comfortable at. I know I am far from any kind of knowledgeable person re: Ibo, but from all the data I’ve seen and read, you will still have a great experience regardless of dose of opiates. I agree with these two that the experience might be more intense on lower doses, but I don’t think anyone should be too concerned or neurotic about their opiate dose. My opinion only……………………
Regards my man,
Julian

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran
Date: July 22, 2004 at 12:22:30 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Mc….Do you feel the dope you shoot while on Methadone? I never have and thought that regular use of 50mg or more blocks any rush or euphoria from opiate or opiate like dope.
I hope you don’t do something crazy like that again! You could’ve been arrested and that might have fucked up all your good plans!
I am kind of glad it didn’t feel good. Sorry, just the truth.
Try to take it easy today. Wish you lived close to me….I would be happy to spend the days leading up to you leaving with you. I am with you in thought though.
You hang in there! Do not sabotage this or yourself. I have a tendency to do that and I have no reason why but it drives my Methadone counselor batty!! Maybe all of us addicts sabotage our happiness and don’t even realize it!
I don’t know how you feel about 12 step meetings but one or two might help if you are feeling shitty and are tempted to do something else stupid tonight. I think it would be better to be around some clean/sober folks instead of being alone with your self destructiveness.
Does the clinic you are going to be treated at have a hotline number? Maybe you should find out. You could even call and chat with them. I will be happy to give you my number if you e-mail me privately.
Treat yourself good today. Take a walk if weather is permitting.
Keep in touch! Hugs and more hugs!
Callie

From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran
Date: July 22, 2004 at 11:38:25 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hope that makes sense. I typed it really fast and didn’t spell check. sorry.

mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com> wrote:
Thanks again. I’m feelin kinda digusted with myself this morning because last night I got kinda drunk with a few opf my friends and then when everyone went there spereate ways I started to think about this (and none of them know) but I started thinking about one good last shot. So needless to say I circumed  to it and it gave me a terrible hardache (severse me right) and I went satraight to bed. I woke up this morning with the plan to go down to 80 and I heald off until tomorrow becasue my whole body was hurting.
It just disgusts me but iot has a tedincy of happening when I get a lIttle drunk. All my friends go home to there normal lives and I go to Harlem. Oh well I’m lookin at a new begininng in just two days and maybe that really was the last time. God, there have been so many last times… too many last times. I’m not going to beat myself up but its long sleeves today in 90 degrees and I’m going out to have dinner with my family so they might be the ones doing the beating.
I’m going to take mny laptop on the train and respond to all of the wonderful messages I’ve recieved in the past few days.
This time two days from now I’ll be 3,000 miles away with one bottle. Time to face this bitch for once and for all.
-M.

Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi Mcorcoran,

Like I said the odds are on your side.  Everyone seems to be the happier for taking the treatment.  Many are trying to save up the money to have it.  Addiction sucks, no doubt about it.  Think now, you have had input from half the people on the forum, people who are quite experienced.  Go there, clean up and get back to your life, you got a lot of years left.  Oh, one more thing, the place you work for most likely will not give you a good reference so I would let them fire me.  If they fire you for getting medical help you will at least get unemployment, if you quit you don’t get anything, I have seen more help on this forum than anywhere else.  You will be fine, you think we’re all bullshitting ya?   We’ve all been there and many of us have been to worse places.  Just don’t relapse.

Relax, you will be fine

– JIM

CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 7/21/2004 5:02:13 PM Central Daylight Time, mcorcoran27@yahoo.com writes:
Oh my God a week !!!!!! I had this thought today that me and this big fuckin habit of mine were finally coming face to face and I’m going to have every expectation that this bitch is not gonna let go without a fight and although I know its anyones fight and I’m not gonna win without getting a little fucked up but I will prevail.

Bless you! You have so many questions and anxieties. My advice to you is too let it all go. Do the next right thing and all will be fine. Have faith in your higher power. You have been led to this list and to Ibogaine. It is not a coincidence.
As far as your job….I think you are wise not to quit. In fact, I encourage you to make as few major changes as you can.
Let Ibogaine be the change you make. Quitting dope goes with the Ibogaine change. That is a HUGE life change and will bring on some stress.
You can do it though if you keep the rest of your life as familiar as possible.
I am so excited for you! For this reason I will be happy when this ordeal is over for you!
Callie

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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran
Date: July 22, 2004 at 11:36:46 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks again. I’m feelin kinda digusted with myself this morning because last night I got kinda drunk with a few opf my friends and then when everyone went there spereate ways I started to think about this (and none of them know) but I started thinking about one good last shot. So needless to say I circumed  to it and it gave me a terrible hardache (severse me right) and I went satraight to bed. I woke up this morning with the plan to go down to 80 and I heald off until tomorrow becasue my whole body was hurting.
It just disgusts me but iot has a tedincy of happening when I get a lIttle drunk. All my friends go home to there normal lives and I go to Harlem. Oh well I’m lookin at a new begininng in just two days and maybe that really was the last time. God, there have been so many last times… too many last times. I’m not going to beat myself up but its long sleeves today in 90 degrees and I’m going out to have dinner with my family so they might be the ones doing the beating.
I’m going to take mny laptop on the train and respond to all of the wonderful messages I’ve recieved in the past few days.
This time two days from now I’ll be 3,000 miles away with one bottle. Time to face this bitch for once and for all.
-M.

Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi Mcorcoran,

Like I said the odds are on your side.  Everyone seems to be the happier for taking the treatment.  Many are trying to save up the money to have it.  Addiction sucks, no doubt about it.  Think now, you have had input from half the people on the forum, people who are quite experienced.  Go there, clean up and get back to your life, you got a lot of years left.  Oh, one more thing, the place you work for most likely will not give you a good reference so I would let them fire me.  If they fire you for getting medical help you will at least get unemployment, if you quit you don’t get anything, I have seen more help on this forum than anywhere else.  You will be fine, you think we’re all bullshitting ya?   We’ve all been there and many of us have been to worse places.  Just don’t relapse.

Relax, you will be fine

– JIM

CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 7/21/2004 5:02:13 PM Central Daylight Time, mcorcoran27@yahoo.com writes:
Oh my God a week !!!!!! I had this thought today that me and this big fuckin habit of mine were finally coming face to face and I’m going to have every expectation that this bitch is not gonna let go without a fight and although I know its anyones fight and I’m not gonna win without getting a little fucked up but I will prevail.

Bless you! You have so many questions and anxieties. My advice to you is too let it all go. Do the next right thing and all will be fine. Have faith in your higher power. You have been led to this list and to Ibogaine. It is not a coincidence.
As far as your job….I think you are wise not to quit. In fact, I encourage you to make as few major changes as you can.
Let Ibogaine be the change you make. Quitting dope goes with the Ibogaine change. That is a HUGE life change and will bring on some stress.
You can do it though if you keep the rest of your life as familiar as possible.
I am so excited for you! For this reason I will be happy when this ordeal is over for you!
Callie

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran
Date: July 22, 2004 at 9:59:49 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Mcorcoran,

Like I said the odds are on your side.  Everyone seems to be the happier for taking the treatment.  Many are trying to save up the money to have it.  Addiction sucks, no doubt about it.  Think now, you have had input from half the people on the forum, people who are quite experienced.  Go there, clean up and get back to your life, you got a lot of years left.  Oh, one more thing, the place you work for most likely will not give you a good reference so I would let them fire me.  If they fire you for getting medical help you will at least get unemployment, if you quit you don’t get anything, I have seen more help on this forum than anywhere else.  You will be fine, you think we’re all bullshitting ya?   We’ve all been there and many of us have been to worse places.  Just don’t relapse.

Relax, you will be fine

– JIM

CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 7/21/2004 5:02:13 PM Central Daylight Time, mcorcoran27@yahoo.com writes:
Oh my God a week !!!!!! I had this thought today that me and this big fuckin habit of mine were finally coming face to face and I’m going to have every expectation that this bitch is not gonna let go without a fight and although I know its anyones fight and I’m not gonna win without getting a little fucked up but I will prevail.

Bless you! You have so many questions and anxieties. My advice to you is too let it all go. Do the next right thing and all will be fine. Have faith in your higher power. You have been led to this list and to Ibogaine. It is not a coincidence.
As far as your job….I think you are wise not to quit. In fact, I encourage you to make as few major changes as you can.
Let Ibogaine be the change you make. Quitting dope goes with the Ibogaine change. That is a HUGE life change and will bring on some stress.
You can do it though if you keep the rest of your life as familiar as possible.
I am so excited for you! For this reason I will be happy when this ordeal is over for you!
Callie

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From: iboga@ziplip.com <iboga@ziplip.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] flushing Methadone
Date: July 22, 2004 at 9:57:05 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I hear methadone sells for about $1 per milligram, not that I would know.
—– Original Message —–
From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: 21 Jul 04, 4:19 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Pikturez = thousand WordS
THATS THE MOST INSPIRATIONAL THING I’VE SEEN ALL DAY!
THANKS SO MUCH.
I KNOW I’LL LOOK AT THOSE A 100 TIMES BEFORE I LEAVE.
-M.

D H <dave@phantom.com> wrote:
this is me:

BeFoRe: 2 days post ibo dumping methadone in Italian toilet 1998

aFtEr: grimacing with Hawaiian Gods 2003

> ATTACHMENT part 2 image/jpeg x-mac-creator=3842494D; x-unix-mode=0644; x-mac-type=4A504547; name=dh_before_after.jpg

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Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone.
I
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From: QURADO@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] bupe detox question
Date: July 22, 2004 at 9:44:12 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

has any one ever detoxed off bupe and been able to stay clean and did you have withdrawals from bube ?  hanks all and good luck

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] 11111111111 (smoking tobacco on withdrawa)
Date: July 22, 2004 at 8:43:40 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

When I’m on withdrawal; smoking tobacco comes to me so ugly thing but I
can’t stop myself and I smoke it. Is there anyone feel the same way with me
about smoking tobacco on withdrawal?<

An emphatic yes here. Cigs taste like shit when I’m even only slightly
withdarwing, yet they also help calm me down then, even tasting as awful as
they always do in that state. I mean it, I get this horrid taste I’m not
ever aware of when not in opiated states, but like you Fake, I do not stop
entirely stop smoking- though I do usually smoke a lot less in those times.
One would think, or at least I would, that this wouldn’t be the case, that
due to needing something, anything to cut through the withdrawal hell I
would basically gobble up tobacco cigs, but it’s simpl not the case.
So yes, I empathize with you.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: FakePlacebo
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 3:45 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] 11111111111 (smoking tobacco on withdrawa)

Dear Friends,
When I’m on withdrawal; smoking tobacco comes to me so ugly thing but I
can’t stop myself and I smoke it. Is there anyone feel the same way with me
about smoking tobacco on withdrawal?

Best Regards
FakePlacebo
—– Original Message —–
From: iboga@ziplip.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 8:28 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] 11111111111

Jon,
Thank you for your reply.  It is good to hear the other side to better
understand.  I understand the compulsion part and the lack of appitite, but
I had never heard of aches and pain and sickness resulting from stopping
marijauana use after use.  I’ curious if similar case have been reported
from tobacco use?  Regardless, I think Prohibition of it promotes terrorism
and drug use and I believe the war on drugs is a war not designed to succeed
and that organized crime has made so much that it has saturated media,
political parties and has created the prison industrial complex that
continues to grow and grow as will the budget for the War on Drugs,
expecially things like the ‘Victory Act’ which links drug use with
terrorism, not drug prohibition, drug use.
But for real Jon thank you for your reply, I will be looking into it futher
and hope if you run across anything new let me know,
Be Well,
Jason

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From: “jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] marijauana ache&pain reduce consumption
Date: July 22, 2004 at 8:43:41 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

Hi All,

I would put it in same catagory as wanting a Pepsi, candy bar or coffee give or take a little.

Well I would certainly put it in the same category as coffee or Pepsi.
The reports I’ve read of caffeine withdrawal seem pretty similar to
marijuana withdrawal. that is, nervousness, irritablility, minor aches,
etc. I would wager to say that caffeine withdrawal is often even slightly
more intense than pot withdrawal.

dunno about candy bars tho, unless you’re talking about those
caffeine-enhanced things they have out now =)

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] (OT) a matter of perspective-last photo share
Date: July 22, 2004 at 8:39:54 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

HI all,
I apologize up front for all the off-topic posting recently on my part,
it’s just that I’m having extremely weird sleeping patterns lately, a bit of
nervousness and excitement building up in me, some extremely bad pain
lately, and other distractions that keep me waking and sleeping at the
oddest, most erratic moments. So, I’ve been a bit manic one might say- on
top of the “normal” manicness I go through most of my time.
The point to this is, I noticed last night a perfect example of how one
can look at something in one way and see beautiful art and love and sheer
loveliness, and in another see a crappy photo taken with a bad camera phone,
as in the attached photo of V, which really is an amazingly beautiful woman
and almost never takes a bad picture, even apparently with a cell phone
camera- as grainy as this one is.
So, I share a photo I took last night while dj’ing, of my lovely V (since I
talk about her a lot, I figure she’s ALMOST a part of this list- and in more
ways she’s also a part of this community of sorts, knowing many of the
characters who participate here even if she herself does not post here.)
Peace and love,
Preston

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From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Bupe and depression
Date: July 22, 2004 at 8:01:58 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi,

I’m not sure what you’re on about but I just wanted to add a couple of things.

I know Bup is used as a pain killer and WD tool, not sure about depression.  I’m on Subutex-if you have any specific questions don’t hesitate to ask!  And whats the deal with Ibo and Bup?  Do you have to stop it first?

I’m on Effexor for depression and it seems to work (I’ve waited 5yrs to find one that works).  Have you tried Sam-E?  I think you can get it in health food stores.  I’ve not had it coz here in the UK you have to be prescribed it but apparently you feel happier almost straight away!  Think it might be expensive as a long term thing though.

I too don’t nod on H or at least not til later.  Its the only time when I get my housework done!  It gets rid of my depression n I get really sociable.  Unfortunately then I want to see my friends n then I nod out n it looks bad.  I get very emotional too though n often burst into tears over something silly!

Oh and technically you’re supposed to taper down to 30ml Meth or less before switching to Bup but check this out…

lol Hannah
—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 10:36 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Bupe and depression

Hi Julian,

I don’t know if Bupe or subutex would be better for depression.  It is only a schedule III drug and you think a doc could write for it and use if for off the record use.  You could always try it if you lucky.  One thing if your going to take the Igo be sure to tell them about the Wellbutrin.  Tell them a month beforehand so as not to waste a plane ticket.  Wellbutrin may not be a pure SSRI drug but it works on one of the three brain chemicals.  Don’t forget to tell them.  From what I understand you can switch from a met clinic to a bupe clinic with no problem, but that is just what I here.

It seems I called several  docs and ask about it but they never called me back.  Guess they want money rather than Medicare and state cards.  I really think that it would help me, patient number 1 fits me to the “T”.

I have noticed that when some people nod out I am up and ready to go.  I talk alot feel GREAT and never have no depression.  Of course when it wears off it is the same old shit.  Whatever goes up must come down.  Sad but true.

Let me know how your doing,

– JIM

Sapphirestardus@aol.com wrote:
Jim, that is a great site. Extremely informative and got me interested in checking it out for myself as a possibility. I have yet to locate a site like this about methadone and it’s antidepressant activity. It works as an antidepressant for me, especially the categories used in the buprenorphine site of high energy, friendliness and vigor. I also use wellbutrin but as of yet, having tried many medications, only opiates have provided me with that antidepressant effect I am looking for. You know even with smack, I nodded out in the beginning, but after a short while, I experienced what the PDR called ‘paradoxical stimulation’ which is what I needed for my depression. I lacked energy, motivation, vigor, strength etc. and only the opiates provided that. With methadone, I achieve those effects but there are other problems I don’t want.
Could buprenorphine provide an even better treatment for (my) depression?

Jim, thankyou for the data man, it really helped me.

Sincerely,
Julian

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From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fw: Ibogaine
Date: July 22, 2004 at 7:43:53 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

From: “Hannah Clay” <spaglet@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine sites and mindvox
Date: July 22, 2004 at 7:36:44 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Erm…do you think we spend ALL day doing this?! Lol!  I spend maybe an hour a day on my PC and I think that’s ALOT.  Its only that long coz there’s so many messages to read!

Oh n don’t worry, I’m smoking some herb as I write this…
LOL Hannah

—– Original Message —–
From: <gboy@hush.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2004 6:02 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine sites and mindvox

> —–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—–
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Cool glad I did that at least. I dont know what a lot
> of you all are going through but would it not help at
> least some to smoke some herb and play a videogame or
> watch a movie to take your mind off fiending?
>
> I understand talking about everything does help out
> and I learn a lot about addiction by reading here,
> but doesn’t it help out too to just do something
> else and zone out? peace.
>
> .g
>
> On Fri, 16 Jul 2004 21:46:47 -0700 UUSEAN@aol.com wrote:
> >Hi g,
> >
> >  I am laughing at your post about the support groups, but it’s
> >kind of
> >a guilty laugh if you know what I mean. I am having a really tough
> >>
> >night here missing my drugs I guess, and I needed a laugh right about
> >>
> >now so thanks.
> >
> >  Sean
> —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—–
> Note: This signature can be verified at https://www.hushtools.com/verify
> Version: Hush 2.4
>
> wkYEARECAAYFAkD4suIACgkQxuwtmNNEJvQo8gCdGgbM6pcR4WgLdEIMoYxW6nXrIUUA
> n1uxuod8bU5eRwfSnqnzDo90W+w1
> =cpl1
> —–END PGP SIGNATURE—–
>
>
>
>
> Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
> secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2
>
> Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
> http://www.hushmail.com/services-messenger?l=434
>
> Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
> http://www.hushmail.com/about-affiliate?l=427
>
>
>   /]=———————————————————————=[\
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>   \]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>

From: “Hannah Clay” <spaglet@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] getting dosed (abused) in the ER
Date: July 22, 2004 at 7:16:26 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Here in the UK we have ‘Service User Groups’ though admittedly not many addicts seem to be aware of it!  We’re just starting one up in our town.  Whether you’re using or an ex-user its a way of communicating between the treatment providers and ‘us’.  Its kindof our chance to have our say.  Its only just started here and unfortunately hasn’t attracted much interest (though we are a tiny town-nothing like NYC!lol)  The meetings last a couple of hours, once a month and you get the chance to speak face-to-face to the people that run the show.  We had the head guy for alcohol n drugs in our county at the first one, people like that.  You bring up anything you think that’s important and re encouraged to ‘get into it’,.  For example, here (Lincoln, nr Nottingham in east midlands) we have crap needle exchanges-just open from 10am to 4pm Mon to Fri.  Nothing for those who work apart from the chemists which are further away n seem to have attitude probs!  This is ‘my thing’  I ‘work’ on it.  I’m really sorry,I just woke up and I can’t put across what I’m trying to say!

You’re even given £5 to attend.  We are supposed to come up with ideas and some caring people fought for us to be able to have this chance only no one seems interested.  Even for money.  Its sad but the truth.  Here we’re being given the chance to have a say over how we’re treated and no one can be bothered.

Sorry,I only meant to bring this up for Sean-these ‘unions’ are possible!

LOL Hannah.

PS: Does anyone have any experience of Subutex and Ibogaine yet?

Original Message —–
From: UUSEAN@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 9:27 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] getting dosed (abused) in the ER

Hi Preston,

Your story and others convince me even more that we need addict unions in this country. (US).  Addict unions lobby with the attitude of yes we are junkies, but we are also human beings.  You don’t need to refuse us treatment and throw us in jail.

Sean

From: “Hannah Clay” <spaglet@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] where is the Iboga web pages
Date: July 22, 2004 at 7:01:28 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Phoow!  That went SO far over my head! 😉
—– Original Message —–
From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 8:45 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] where is the Iboga web pages

Maybe they felt like spending the time to do all that. The reason it
loads right for everything
is because if you right-click the source code, it has a css file 400
lines long for windowze,
mac, sun and linux. The W3 validater won’t load even the first line
because
it’s using
webobjects. Don’t understand how it works exactly because it’s another
cool Apple gizmo
which does more then php but used to cost $50,000 for a site license.
THey changed the
price to $1,000 2 years back to compete with php which is free 😉 Mindvox
is not written in
html, it’s written in whatever it is written in and then rendered to
html when you request the
page to load in a browser.

It’s not really there, it makes the page for you when you request it
and makes it according to
what browser and machine you’re using. This is why it loads perfectly
for everything.

I’ve done web design for money, not a living exactly and pray I can avoid
that all the way
through grad school, kudos to Jon Freedlander too! 🙂 but I’ll leave
it at I don’t understand
most of the back end code that runs Mindvox and draws it to screen.

Nobody needed to do all that work to make the website do what it’s doing
now and reading
the css file it is changing settings on 100 different options that don’t
appear in the website at
all but in the web forums which go online and offline. I think all of
it was made to support the
forums and the “Psychedelic Temple” is there just because 😉

ibogaine.mindvox.com is just html and javascript. Saying it’s special
html for expensive
computers is bs. There is no such thing. Whoever made it defaulted it
to native res on a
Apple 17″ screen which is 1440 x 900. Anything less then that and it
starts to lose
information from the navigation. This is something that takes 2 minutes
to fix and changing
a hard coded screen limit to a wildcard *. I’m sure Patrick knows this.

This took alot more time to write then to look at, right-click view source
and if you know any
html what I said is obvious. It also has no alt tags, no meta tags, the
whole meta tags for
ibogaine.mindvox.com is “We Love Drugs” 😉 Mindvox the psychedelic temple
has no meta
tags at all.

Clicking some of the files they are all set to noindex, nocache, nofollow
and norobots. The
whole site is telling search engines to stay off it instead of index
anything. Yet mindvox is
hitting at lets see, having a slow week and at 72,124 on Alexa. The
highest
hitting ibogaine
site which I think is ibogaine.org is at 1,284,557.

This gave me a excuse to stop working for 20 minutes 🙂

What’s it all mean I don’t know. It obviously took a huge amount of work
to make all this,
ibogaine.mindvox.com keeps adding things including the implied threat
section? 😉
“Treatment” “Follow the Yellow Brick Road”. But at the same time, whoever
owns Mindvox
besides patrick is doing everything they can to prevent it from indexing.
In spite of that it’s at
72,000 and hitting 20,000 on some days according to the alexa traffic
graph.

Someone is loading a very big shotgun and hasn’t aimed it at anything
yet? 😉 When index is
hit, the whole thing will go to #1 and stay there. Except who will care,
because ibogaine.org
is already at #1 for the keyword ibogaine and there really isn’t anybody
reading the thing, it’s
always below 1 million.

I think that’s one of the things which has always made this place
interesting
to me 😉 I found
ibogaine by accident years ago, looking for Mindvox. I’m very much
guessing
most of the
people who land on Mindvox aren’t looking for ibogaine, the sites it
cross hits with are all
hacking and blackhat sites. Mindvox isn’t selling anything, not even
email which they easily
could. I don’t understand what is motivating anybody to do anything,
since its something that
obiously took a huge amount of creative and technical talent to make
and a lot of time and
money to keep running.

Whatever Patrick wants to put online is seen by alot of people, that’s
about all I think.

Peace out
Curtis

On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 14:22:01 -0700 =?iso-8859-1?q?David=20Varossi?=
<dvarossi@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
ibogaine.mindvox.com

As always with anything Mindvox, beutiful to look at
except none of it loads right unless you have a
expensive computer and a big monitor as was noted on
this list a week ago. Still hasn’t been fixed.

ibogaine.org

Huge collection of information that is so tangled up I
can’t ever find anything. The sections overlap and I’m
sure made sense a long time ago but it is impossible
to find anything in it.

ibogaine.co.uk

Great site which loads and is well organised but not
maintained very often.

ibogaine-research.org

More beautiful eye candy, which is almost the only
thing that is here. Nearly all the papers have been
removed.

Speaking for myself I have better luck searching
through the ibogaine sites using google, then I do
using any of the sites.

mindvox.com

As for Mindvox itself, gorgeous site. So complex that
none of it will make it through the WWW validator yet
it loads perfectly on every browser and every computer
I have ever used it on. Looks as if you folks spent a
huge amount of time and effort to make your
“psychedelic temple” because all of it works
perfectly. Except the only content on the entire site
are deranged rants, weird art and a 90 page media kit
or “Media Temple” if you prefer.

Everyone has their priorities and I much appreciate
the time and effort it must take to keep it all
running and to all the folks who run the web sites.
I’m only stating what it’s like to try and find
anything in all of it.

I gave up and started using google.

Cheers mates
David

Carla Barnes wrote:

The Mindvox site is more a psychedelic temple? 😉
Its
beautiful but thats not the ibogaine part, the
ibogaine part is let me unload bookmarks

http://ibogaine.mindvox.com

Howard has a ibogaine site

http://ibogaine.desk.nl

UK site

http://www.ibogaine.co.uk

Ibogaine scientific site

http://www.ibogaine-research.org

Carla B

— Mustafa izgi <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com> wrote:
Dear Mr. Howard,
What happened to iboga web pages. I made a search
on
google and there is only crabs about iboga. Where
did you move your pages it was one and only. I find
Mindwox but there was only strange pictures in  it.

With My Best Regards
FakePlacebo

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
http://www.hushmail.com/services-messenger?l=434

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From: paul maclennan <leisure1@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] 10mg taper? [was: reduce consumption -iboga zip]
Date: July 22, 2004 at 6:58:04 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

D H wrote:

Paul,

I can only speak from experience, my own.

I did NOT taper down to only 5-10mgs. I was at maintained at 80mgs for almost 4 years and I had begun to taper down before I had any Ibogaine treatment arrangements. I got down as low as 18mgs, and got cold feet and went back up to 35mgs. I had tapered back down to 20mgs by the time my ibo treatment was confirmed/scheduled. (I was going to taper off all the way if the ibo plans fell thru). Because of circumstances that no longer matter, I went back up to 40mgs the week prior to the Ibo.

In February 1998 I took my last 40mg dose of methadone and 24 hours later I took the ibogaine.

I suffered very slight withdrawal (cramping legs, restlessness), even tho I could only keep 1/2 of the ibo dose down. I was sleeping 4-5 hours a night in that first week. I did feel like death warmed over, I was physically in pretty poor shape. I hadn’t exercised in 4 years, my diet consisted of hagendaz ice cream, twix bars and greasy to-go food. A week later I took a supplemental dose that completely catapulted me into a very very good experience and head space. My whole perspective changed. I started to recover physically.

10,000 miles away from my clinic, in a foreign country with barely any money, I flushed the remainder of my methadone down the toilet (a good 2.5 week supply). That just doesn’t “happen” spontaneously.

Did I stay clean since then?

I used heroin 2X post Ibo, both within the first 4 months. The first time was fucking excellent, reset receptors, euphoric nod, drifting dream state, the whole nine yards. The second time was horrible, I almost died, it thoroughly kicked my ass and sent me running back to my abandoned “AFTERCARE PLANS” -hint hint.

I haven’t shot, snorted or smoked any heroin (or cocaine or any other narcotics for that matter) since.

I have, upon occasion, had to take pain medications over the last few years for chronic pain and over a year ago I took a small dose of Ibo to interrupt an Oxycontin dependance.

in summary, the WoNdEr of ibogaine is that it can be used seamlessly to interrupt opiate addiction/withdrawal. That is the Beauty of it.

No Need to suffer! That is like, the whole fucking point of Ibogaine (plus all the esoteric/spiritual fringe benefits).

Peace,
_.dh

On Monday, July 19, 2004, at 11:42 PM, paul maclennan wrote:

Hi – i’m interested to follow this thread re: reducing dose prior to ibo – when I wrote asking about this a few months back – the very strong response from all who replied was that I should NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES take ibo without drastically reducing my habit (methodone), to something like 5-10 mg – which is a long way from where i’m at now…So, in the light of recent posts, can we get some general cosensus (hows about a vote) from those people who actually know what they are talking about and have some basis for their view, on whether it is ok to go from straight from a daily meth dose of @ 100 mg to an ibo dose??

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Howard, Dave (_.dh), Patrick and others who replied, thanks for the comments/info/advice.  Thats good to know, although I also understand and agree with the suggestion that, while not imperative to reduce/eliminate prior, it is a good idea if possible and may make things better overall..sure makes sense if the general idea is to get off anyway (that is,  get off getting off).

I had order and recived both raw root product and hcl from france and had stashed it away for future reference and the right time etc, but have had a rather unfortunate run in with the law enforcement authorities…who found the intriging little plastic bag of white powder along with other naughty stuff and paraphanelia of use and abuse and the buggers have taken it off me…I may yet get it back if i’m lucky, but have now got an appointment with big man in white wig soon about the other (non-ibo) thingymijigs and whatsits…dont really fancy sending off another $700 notes for a new stash, so…..am thinking of trying a clinic approach….

Next query is specifically to any/all treatment providers: i’m wanting to contact a clinic to check out treatment details and timing etc.  From the looks of things this is going to require a fairly longhaul plane ride, in addition to the standard ibo journey.  Providers can contact me directly tp discuss in more detail at ” leisure1@xtra.co.nz” .
I’m away for the next 5 days but will respond to anyt responses after that.

Thanks all, cheers and all

Maxleisure

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] AnyoneFormer’done gone2Bupe
Date: July 22, 2004 at 4:53:34 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jason, I tried switching from bup to meth. I could only take it for 2 weeks, maybe a little more. I detoxed abruptly for 5 days before I switched and never did feel right. I suspect it was the naltrexone reacting to the meth in me. Hope this may help a little it just wasn’t for me.   Randy

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] depression
Date: July 22, 2004 at 4:01:17 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Press Association

Wednesday July 21, 2004 

An increased risk of suicidal behaviour occurs among users of four different anti-depressant drugs in the first month after starting treatment, researchers said.

The results showed no difference in patients’ reactions to old-style anti-depressants known as tricyclic drugs and newer SSRIs such as Prozac.

There have recently been concerns about reports of self-destructive thoughts or attempted suicides linked to SSRIs, especially among young people.

But the new findings suggest that increased suicidal behaviour may simply be due to the fact that anti-depressants take time to start working.

A person diagnosed with depression will have to wait two weeks or more for his or her medication to take effect. During this time a patient may be at increased risk of suicidal tendencies.

The claim that SSRIs create a hazard over and above this effect does not seem to be born out by the new study.

SSRIs, or selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors, increase the availability of the brain chemical serotonin, which is linked to mood and anxiety.

The American study focused on patients in the UK taking one of four anti-depressants – fluoxetine, paroxetene, amitriptyline and dothiepin.

The first two are SSRIs sold under the brand names Prozac and Seroxat, while the others are tricyclics.

Dr Hershel Jick and colleagues at Boston University, Massachusetts, estimated the relative risks of non-fatal suicide behaviour in the patients.

They found that in the first month after starting treatment, there was an increased risk of suicidal behaviour which was the same for all four drugs.

© Copyright Press Association Ltd 2004, All Rights Reserved.

From: “FakePlacebo” <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] 11111111111 (smoking tobacco on withdrawa)
Date: July 22, 2004 at 3:45:30 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Friends,
When I’m on withdrawal; smoking tobacco comes to me so ugly thing but I can’t stop myself and I smoke it. Is there anyone feel the same way with me about smoking tobacco on withdrawal?

Best Regards
FakePlacebo
—– Original Message —–
From: iboga@ziplip.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 8:28 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] 11111111111

Jon,
Thank you for your reply.  It is good to hear the other side to better understand.  I understand the compulsion part and the lack of appitite, but I had never heard of aches and pain and sickness resulting from stopping marijauana use after use.  I’ curious if similar case have been reported from tobacco use?  Regardless, I think Prohibition of it promotes terrorism and drug use and I believe the war on drugs is a war not designed to succeed and that organized crime has made so much that it has saturated media, political parties and has created the prison industrial complex that continues to grow and grow as will the budget for the War on Drugs, expecially things like the ‘Victory Act’ which links drug use with terrorism, not drug prohibition, drug use.
But for real Jon thank you for your reply, I will be looking into it futher and hope if you run across anything new let me know,
Be Well,
Jason

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] off topic…gun ban
Date: July 22, 2004 at 1:00:39 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This is one ban I support 100%.
Callie

More Than 50 Members of Entertainment Community Sign Letter Calling on
President Bush, U.S. Congress, to Strengthen and Renew Federal Assault
Weapons Ban

WASHINGTON – July 21 – More than 50 members of the entertainment
community—including Kevin Bacon, Patricia Heaton, Dustin Hoffman, Helen
Hunt, Scarlett Johansson, Christine Lahti, William H. Macy, Robert
Redford, Rob Reiner, Brooke Shields, Barbra Streisand, and others—today
sent a letter to President Bush and Congress calling for the federal
assault weapons ban to be strengthened and renewed. Without action by
the President and Congress, the ban will expire on September 13th,
2004.

The letter calls for passage of the “Assault Weapons Ban and Law
Enforcement Protection Act of 2003” (S. 1431 and H.R. 2038), a bill
that would not only renew, but strengthen, the federal assault weapons
ban. Excerpts from the letter were published today in a paid
advertisement in Roll Call (follow this link for the full text of the
letter and the ad), stating:

the gun industry has successfully evaded the current assault weapons
ban enacted in 1994. They have done this by making slight, cosmetic
design changes to their “post-ban” guns, a tactic the industry has
dubbed “sporterization.”

In the past 10 years, the gun industry has flooded the market with
these weapons. Today, “post-ban” AR-15s, AK-47s, MAC-10s, and even UZIs
are legal to manufacture, buy, and sell—and are being used in
crime….From 1998 through 2001, one out of five law enforcement
officers slain in the line of duty were killed with an assault weapon.

We know this legislation will work. It is modeled on California’s
successful assault weapons ban passed in 1999. The rest of the nation
deserves a law as strong as California’s.

The ad was paid for by the Violence Policy Center (VPC), Trauma
Foundation, and Violence Prevention Coalition of Greater Los Angeles. A
new study released yesterday by the VPC, United States of Assault
Weapons: Gunmakers Evading the Federal Assault Weapons Ban, reveals
that more than 40 gunmakers in 22 states are currently marketing
“post-ban” assault weapons—including UZIs, AK-47s, AR-15s, MAC-10s,
Galils, MP5s, Tommy Guns, Stens, and others. The study also estimates
that more than one million “post-ban” assault weapons have been
manufactured in the United States since the ban’s passage in 1994 and
warns that today “there are more assault weapon manufacturers and
assault weapons available for sale than ever before.”

The letter to President Bush and Congress was signed by: Marc Abraham,
Debbie Allen, Kevin Bacon, Laurie & Bill Benenson, Loraine & Peter
Boyle, Elizabeth Brooks & Larry Frazin, Shelly & Larry Brown, Jackson
Browne, Susan Titelman Cooder & Ry Cooder, Jamie Lee Curtis, Alison &
David Dinerstein, Carrie Fisher, Eve & Bill Gerber, Mimi Polk Gitlin &
Richard Gitlin, Patricia Heaton & David Hunt, Dustin Hoffman, Helen
Hunt, Anjelica Huston, Marta Kauffman & Michael Skloff, Scarlett
Johansson, Jena & Michael King, Christine Lahti & Thomas Schlamme,
Cyndi Lauper, Lyn & Norman Lear, Téa Leoni, William H. Macy, Samantha
Mathis, Harlee McBride & Richard Belzer, Shiva Rose & Dylan McDermott,
Patty Smyth McEnroe & John McEnroe, Susan & Graham Nash, Leslie Neale &
John Densmore, Sally & Van Dyke Parks, Stephanie & John Perenchio,
Danica & Charles Perez, Tom Petty, Robert Redford, Rob Reiner, Tim
Roth, Deborah & Carlos Santana, Charlie Sheen, Brooke Shields & Chris
Henchy, Nancy & Martin Short, Julia & Aaron Sorkin, Barbra Streisand,
James Taylor, Heather Thomas, Cheryl Tiegs, Daena Title & Jason
Alexander, Jenno Topping & Chris Moore, and Don Was.

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] AnyoneFormer’done gone2Bupe
Date: July 22, 2004 at 12:52:07 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/21/04 11:12:20 AM, iboga@ziplip.com writes:

Can anyone point me in the right direction on where to find information
from people who have used methadone and switched to Bup as to how they
felt they were different.  I think they are some of the few people who
aren’t paid off and I trust their oppinion a bit more.  Any links or personal
expereince is appreciated.

Jason

http://www.readybb.com/nama_wespeakmethadone/viewforum.php?f=13

http://www.readybb.com/watchdog/viewforum.php?f=2

These are two methadone bulletin boards that will allow you to discuss this
matter with persons who have switched.  You have to register for watchdog to
post but, not for the nama we speak methadone boards.

Also go to the newsgroup alt.drugs.hard

Howard

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] pot withdrawals? LOL!
Date: July 22, 2004 at 12:21:04 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/21/2004 5:02:13 PM Central Daylight Time, mcorcoran27@yahoo.com writes:
Oh my God a week !!!!!! I had this thought today that me and this big fuckin habit of mine were finally coming face to face and I’m going to have every expectation that this bitch is not gonna let go without a fight and although I know its anyones fight and I’m not gonna win without getting a little fucked up but I will prevail.

Bless you! You have so many questions and anxieties. My advice to you is too let it all go. Do the next right thing and all will be fine. Have faith in your higher power. You have been led to this list and to Ibogaine. It is not a coincidence.
As far as your job….I think you are wise not to quit. In fact, I encourage you to make as few major changes as you can.
Let Ibogaine be the change you make. Quitting dope goes with the Ibogaine change. That is a HUGE life change and will bring on some stress.
You can do it though if you keep the rest of your life as familiar as possible.
I am so excited for you! For this reason I will be happy when this ordeal is over for you!
Callie

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Pikturez = thousand WordS
Date: July 21, 2004 at 11:51:13 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Carla, is that you? You are gorgeous girl!
Callie

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Pikturez = thousand WordS
Date: July 21, 2004 at 11:49:20 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

WOW!
That picture speaks a MILLION words! Unfuckinbelievable!
You are lookin’ good Dave!
Callie

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] and now for something entirely different
Date: July 21, 2004 at 11:33:05 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Maybe that’s why the hospital called two orderlies and a cop when they refussed you your met.

you may have a point there.

_.dh

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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] marijauana ache&pain reduce consumption
Date: July 21, 2004 at 11:20:50 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Jim,

I agree with you…except the coffee withdrals..they can really suck.  If I don’t get my maintenance dose of caffeine, I get a killer headache (an Exedrenn headache:). About ten years ago when I tried abstaining form all my chemical addictions, I tried giving up coffee too.  I actually asked my doctor if there was something he could give me for caffeine withdrawal.  He said.”sure..coffee.”

At the time I had a rip roaring orgasms addiction going which helped keep the chemicals at bay.  Eventually I decided to have a hit off the devil’s dick, though, and now it’s ten years later.  I did find though, that there was nothing like a full blown crack/heroin addiction to cure sex addiction.  Who has time for sex?:)

Sean

From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] marijauana ache&pain reduce consumption
Date: July 21, 2004 at 10:43:18 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi All,

I would put it in same catagory as wanting a Pepsi, candy bar or coffee give or take a little.

– JIM

“jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu> wrote:
In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

> weird. I admit, I do get a wee bit cranky sometimes when I’m out of herb
> (wait, what am I saying. I’m ALWAYS out of herb, I never ever have any and
> never possess any of that demond weed ever. That stuff is bad.)
> Seriously though, thanks for posting this info. I sometimes forget I’m
> not everyone, and not everyone is going to react/act the same as I as a
> result of having/not having drugs of all kinds.
> Peace and love,
> Preston

Yeah, it’s entirely possible that the withdrawal symptoms from cannabis
are soley psychological in their origin. like some of those articles said,
the pot withdrawal syndrome hasn’t been very well studied.. probably
cause it doesn’t really cause any signficant problems. and one of
them mentioned not seeing withdrawal symptoms from pot in lab animals.

so i think it would certainly be plausible that it’s psychologically
based.

take care

jon

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__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com

From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] and now for something entirely different
Date: July 21, 2004 at 10:33:59 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi All,

Maybe that’s why the hospital called two orderlies and a cop when they refussed you your met.  Now, if you can just find ’em in a dark alley  – LOL

Looking good Buddy,

– JIM

D H <dave@phantom.com> wrote:
I can’t remember if I am posing for the WWF promo or if i am passing a
methadone boulder

> ATTACHMENT part 2.1 application/applefile name=dh-wwf.jpg

> ATTACHMENT part 2.2 image/jpeg x-mac-creator=3842494D; x-unix-mode=0644; x-mac-type=4A504547; name=dh-wwf.jpg

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – Helps protect you from nasty viruses.

From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Pikturez = thousand WordS
Date: July 21, 2004 at 10:23:16 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Mcorcoran,

Sometime in every persons life they have to fight something.  A person, a cause, a war, whatever.  I would look at it this way:  I am getting rid of the liquid hand cuffs, I don’t have to pee when asked, I don’t have to get up and be somewhere or else.  Look at the odds, there are on your side.  1000’s of people have taken Ibogaine and if you asked them would they do it again what do you think the odds would be 99% glad?  I don’t think I’ve heard of one person regret the experience.  Do you want to stay on the met for 5 or 10 years?  Relax, you will be fine.  Enjoy.

Best to ya,
– JIM

mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com> wrote:
THATS THE MOST INSPIRATIONAL THING I’VE SEEN ALL DAY!
THANKS SO MUCH.
I KNOW I’LL LOOK AT THOSE A 100 TIMES BEFORE I LEAVE.
-M.

D H <dave@phantom.com> wrote:
this is me:

BeFoRe: 2 days post ibo dumping methadone in Italian toilet 1998

aFtEr: grimacing with Hawaiian Gods 2003

> ATTACHMENT part 2 image/jpeg x-mac-creator=3842494D; x-unix-mode=0644; x-mac-type=4A504547; name=dh_before_after.jpg

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Do you Yahoo!?
Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com

From: “jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] pot withdrawals? LOL!
Date: July 21, 2004 at 9:52:35 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

Hey Preston,

I’m a freak and from all I’ve read (it seems like all I do is read these
days:) there are no little to no physical withdrawal symptoms form pot. It’s
friggen malarky. Is that how you spell malarky?  Never actually typed it before.  I
tend to use bullshit more, but substituting with malraky may add spice to my
post..thatnks for it.

Well it depends how you define physical symptoms..

The most common complaints after stopping pot abruptly seem to be
irritablitiy and anxiety. Anxiety can often (and especially in me..ehe)
have physical manifestation like achiness and nausea.

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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] 11111111111
Date: July 21, 2004 at 9:50:44 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

earthbound ghost
need, rancid ectoplasm swept out by an old junky coughing and spitting in
the sick morning.”

no-one sez it better than ole’ WB

_.dh

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From: “jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] 11111111111
Date: July 21, 2004 at 9:47:08 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

Jon,
Agreed on Alcohol, have a friend dealing with that for years now, has to have to physically function.  Nobody believes me when I say Alcohol is physically addicting not crack, although I beleive crack-cocaine to be the most mentally addicting substance I know of.  Unless, of course, you’ve heard otherwise.  Take care bro.

yeah i agree with you about coke.. very very addictive mentally, but not
physically.

william burroughs thought so too apparently:

“We are getting some C on RX at this time. Shoot it in the mainline, son.
You can smell it going in, clean and cold in your nose and throat then a
rush of pure pleasure right through the brain lighting up those C
connections. Your head shatters in white explosions. Ten minutes later you
want another shot… you will walk across town for another shot. But if
you can’t score for C you eat, sleep and forget about it. This is a yen of
the brain alone, a need without feeling and without body, earthbound ghost
need, rancid ectoplasm swept out by an old junky coughing and spitting in
the sick morning.”

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From: “jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: (OT)-djing at Duck and meet at ibogaine conference)
Date: July 21, 2004 at 9:36:46 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

a-HA! That’s it Jon. I remember now. It was a very brief meet though, yes?
Lookin’ forward to our next meet.

yeah it was pretty brief… mostly in between lectures i think

Peace,
Preston (btw, for those in NYC, tonight in my last Wednesday night dj’ing at
Duck, after 11PM, til 4AM, so if anyone would like to swing by and listen to
great music, drink cheap alcohol or cheaper soda/water, and throw some
darts, please do stop by and say hello.)

at some point in the not horribly distand future i’m sure i’ll be visiting
nyc again. it’d be cool to say hi ifnwhen i do =)

jon

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From: “jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] marijauana ache&pain reduce consumption
Date: July 21, 2004 at 9:34:52 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

weird. I admit, I do get a wee bit cranky sometimes when I’m out of herb
(wait, what am I saying. I’m ALWAYS out of herb, I never ever have any and
never possess any of that demond weed ever. That stuff is bad.)
Seriously though, thanks for posting this info. I sometimes forget I’m
not everyone, and not everyone is going to react/act the same as I as a
result of having/not having drugs of all kinds.
Peace and love,
Preston

Yeah, it’s entirely possible that the withdrawal symptoms from cannabis
are soley psychological in their origin. like some of those articles said,
the pot withdrawal syndrome hasn’t been very well studied.. probably
cause it doesn’t really cause any signficant problems. and one of
them mentioned not seeing withdrawal symptoms from pot in lab animals.

so i think it would certainly be plausible that it’s psychologically
based.

take care

jon

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From: iboga@ziplip.com <iboga@ziplip.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] 11111111111
Date: July 21, 2004 at 8:58:13 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jon,
Agreed on Alcohol, have a friend dealing with that for years now, has to have to physically function.  Nobody believes me when I say Alcohol is physically addicting not crack, although I beleive crack-cocaine to be the most mentally addicting substance I know of.  Unless, of course, you’ve heard otherwise.  Take care bro.
Jason
—–Original Message—–
From: jon [mailto:jfreed1@umbc.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004, 11:23 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] 11111111111

Jon,
Thank you for your reply.  It is good to hear the other side to better
understand.  I understand the compulsion part and the lack of appitite,
but I had never heard of aches and pain and sickness resulting from
stopping marijauana use after use.  I’ curious if similar case have been
reported from tobacco use?  Regardless, I think Prohibition of it promotes
terrorism and drug use and I believe the war on drugs is a war not
designed to succeed and that organized crime has made so much that it has
saturated media, political parties and has created the prison industrial
complex that continues to grow and grow as will the budget for the War on
Drugs, expecially things like the ‘Victory Act’ which links drug use with
terrorism, not drug prohibition, drug use.
But for real Jon thank you for your reply, I will be looking into it
futher and hope if you run across anything new let me know,

No doubt most of what the media and government tells us about drugs is BS;
especially the government.

I don’t think that the existence of a marijuana withdrawal syndrome in any
way supports the idea of prohibition. First of all, as we can see from the
people on the list, marijuana withdrawal doesn’t happen to a lot of
people. Second, even when it does happen, it usually doesn’t interfere
with the persons life. When I run out of weed, I’m just kinda grumpy and
surly for a couple days, and sometimes i get minor aches. But it doesn’t
affect the work i do, or interaction with friends or anything (though my
temper is probably somewhat shorter for a bit…ehe)

But most importantly, whatever marijuana’s withdrawal effects may be, they
are NOTHING compared to alcohol withdrawal. Hell, even heroin withdrawal
is a walk in the park compared to a bad case of alcohol withdrawal.

In fact, alcohol withdrawal is probably one of the most dangerous, if not
the most dangerous, types of withdrawal.

And it’s perfectly legal, of course.

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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Pikturez = thousand WordS
Date: July 21, 2004 at 9:00:27 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

oh…

Carla…

there is you… way down …. there.

cute indeedy!

_.dh

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From: <gboy@hush.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Pikturez =3D3D thousand WordS
Date: July 21, 2004 at 8:53:57 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—–
Hash: SHA1

Crown of Hippies, why don’t you shut up and pay hushmail
$30 to get a bigger mailbox like I did.

Carla don’t listen to him, do you have any more of you?

Any other junkie hotties, Patrick is very busy, send all
the photos to me! I will help all of you. Everything
that patrick has going on, I’ve got even more!

Curtis for real dog shut up are you stupid or gay?

.g

On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 17:36:50 -0700 crownofthorns@hushmail.com wrote:
Bad time to turn off attachments bro, Carla is a cutie 🙂

As much as I liked seeing what some of you look like, especially
Carla
🙂 Could you all please
stop now? This list makes my mailbox fill up in a day, it’s now
doing
that in 5 hours!

Peace out send photos to Patrick and ask him to put them in the

ibogaine.mindvox.com

people section for the list.
Curtis

On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 17:25:21 -0700 D H <dave@phantom.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, July 21, 2004, at 01:53 PM, Carla Barnes wrote:

cute, disturbed,
artistic psycho guys 😉 the more strung out and self
hating the better 😉

i resemble that remark!

and where oh where is YOUR picture, C?

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—–
Note: This signature can be verified at https://www.hushtools.com/verify
Version: Hush 2.4

wkYEARECAAYFAkD/ECUACgkQxuwtmNNEJvRWEgCeNFQ/9qY9OfDE71I0YizQ3/F4BDUA
mwZMQnmNzLXeTvo2taMioLuvgvnq
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From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Pikturez =3D thousand WordS
Date: July 21, 2004 at 8:36:50 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Bad time to turn off attachments bro, Carla is a cutie 🙂

As much as I liked seeing what some of you look like, especially Carla
🙂 Could you all please
stop now? This list makes my mailbox fill up in a day, it’s now doing
that in 5 hours!

Peace out send photos to Patrick and ask him to put them in the ibogaine.mindvox.com

people section for the list.
Curtis

On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 17:25:21 -0700 D H <dave@phantom.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, July 21, 2004, at 01:53 PM, Carla Barnes wrote:

cute, disturbed,
artistic psycho guys 😉 the more strung out and self
hating the better 😉

i resemble that remark!

and where oh where is YOUR picture, C?

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] pot withdrawals? LOL!
Date: July 21, 2004 at 8:30:58 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Preston,

I’m a freak and from all I’ve read (it seems like all I do is read these days:) there are no little to no physical withdrawal symptoms form pot. It’s friggen malarky. Is that how you spell malarky?  Never actually typed it before.  I tend to use bullshit more, but substituting with malraky may add spice to my post..thatnks for it.

Your freak
sean

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] and now for something entirely different
Date: July 21, 2004 at 8:30:52 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I can’t remember if I am posing for the WWF promo or if i am passing a methadone boulder

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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Ibo and Paxil
Date: July 21, 2004 at 8:25:14 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Jim and list,

Jim, I think you meant MAOIs.  They are rarely used for depression these days I understand, and those who are on them better know they are because just about all the SSRISs and actually most OTC cough and cold medications don’t mix with them.

Of course I really don’t know about ibogaine and MAOIs.

Sean

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Pikturez = thousand WordS
Date: July 21, 2004 at 8:25:21 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Wednesday, July 21, 2004, at 01:53 PM, Carla Barnes wrote:

cute, disturbed,
artistic psycho guys 😉 the more strung out and self
hating the better 😉

i resemble that remark!

and where oh where is YOUR picture, C?

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Pikturez = thousand WordS
Date: July 21, 2004 at 7:53:42 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You look alot like I thought you might. Always
wondered what you looked like, Patrick I’ve seen
photos and video of for years. Both of you are what I
used to spend my life dating, cute, disturbed,
artistic psycho guys 😉 the more strung out and self
hating the better 😉 😉 You too Preston, hi! 😉

Hi everyone, hi to all the police reading this list
too! I think this should motivate me really hard not
to relapse 😉

Carla B

— D H <dave@phantom.com> wrote:
this is me:

BeFoRe:  2 days post ibo dumping methadone in
Italian toilet 1998

aFtEr: grimacing with Hawaiian Gods 2003

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – Send 10MB messages!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Pikturez = thousand WordS
Date: July 21, 2004 at 7:10:10 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

THATS THE MOST INSPIRATIONAL THING I’VE SEEN ALL DAY!
THANKS SO MUCH.
I KNOW I’LL LOOK AT THOSE A 100 TIMES BEFORE I LEAVE.
-M.

D H <dave@phantom.com> wrote:
this is me:

BeFoRe: 2 days post ibo dumping methadone in Italian toilet 1998

aFtEr: grimacing with Hawaiian Gods 2003

> ATTACHMENT part 2 image/jpeg x-mac-creator=3842494D; x-unix-mode=0644; x-mac-type=4A504547; name=dh_before_after.jpg

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Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone.

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Pikturez = thousand WordS
Date: July 21, 2004 at 7:07:11 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

this is me:

BeFoRe:  2 days post ibo dumping methadone in Italian toilet 1998

aFtEr: grimacing with Hawaiian Gods 2003

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From: <gboy@hush.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Help Follow-up 93 WIRED article
Date: July 21, 2004 at 6:48:07 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—–
Hash: SHA1

Patrick that’s amazing. I always thought all of you made
a lot of money in dot com like everybody else. You didn’t
you made money by being yourselves. You were rich and paid
and really fucked everything up didn’t you.

Thanks! You make me feel better about my life!

“Back then,” says Patrick, “we pretty much behaved like assholes.

What’s changed?

Dog, you are a Cult of Personality. Reading back all your
shit over the years that is you. Wired is falling all over all
of you, you got so many articles.

Cult of Personality, take MindVox and ram ibogaine right back
into Wired. They won’t do some crazy drug cult article, but
they sure will do MindVox article #15 thanks to ibogaine. It
is much much much much much much simpler to get a mag
to cover something they’ve followed over so many years.

No editor is going to give anyone so much trouble over doing
what they have a track record for doing over so many years.

You know you want to do it. So do it already! Get ibogaine
into Wired!!!!

Must suck to be you. You really did have everything and
shot it all up.

You’re back thanks to ibogaine. Let the whole world know
it. That’s what you’re great at.

While your at it and I’m planning your day for you, get
Fancher to do ibogaine instead of pulling a sour face and
leaving 15 minutes after he gets to any of the conferences.
He has to love this shit secretly if he spends his whole life
hanging around with you. Then all of MindVox is back thanks
to ibogaine!

.g

On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 09:29:59 -0700 iboga@ziplip.com,
UNEXPECTED_DATA_AFTER_ADDRESS@.SYNTAX-ERROR. wrote:
http://web.archive.org/web/19970606074337/http://ig.cs.tu-berlin.de:80/PE/WIRED/1.5/
departments/electrosphere/mindvox.html

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wkYEARECAAYFAkD+8qcACgkQxuwtmNNEJvQcLgCgpxnwg23gCAYdswRXnbQl6Zz0/IgA
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Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] pot withdrawals? LOL!
Date: July 21, 2004 at 6:01:35 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m sorry about not having to have a chance to respond to all of you, life has been rather crazy getting everything together and figuring out work and anyway not much time to sit in front of the computer. Not to mention whenever I’m around no one is on and as soon as I get back there are a million posts and its hard to keep track. but I’ve appreciated all the words of encouragement and I will get back to all of you in the next day or so.
As for the “pot withdrawals” I don’t think that THC is physically addictive… I”m sure its not. However from personal experience I have been the vicious cycle of coming up and down on meth and whenever I’m dropping I know that I’m going to be a lot more comfortable than I am if I don’t smoke. I didn’t smoke for the first time in at least 6 months on Monday night and I felt like shit in the evening then Tuesday I smoked some haze and I felt great.

As for me I think today was my last day at work. I’m going to call in and tell them that I have a family emergency and I have to go and be with them overseas and will be gone at least a week (taking two) and I hope that works. I don’t want to lose this job because I don’t know if I will find a situation where I’m making this much money for a little while. But more money has always meant more problems for me. A slower paced environment might be a very good thing and I’m thinking that I’m going to be seeing though slightly different eyes in a week or so. Oh my God a week !!!!!! I had this thought today that me and this big fuckin habit of mine were finally coming face to face and I’m going to  have every expectation that this bitch is not gonna let go without a fight and although I know its anyones fight and I’m not gonna win without getting a little fucked up but I will prevail.
I haven’t decided what Ibogine is. Maybe the ring??? or don king? Pay Per View.
Okay I need to get on this plane already!
hEY ALL. -m.

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>I’ve never heard of people (non-medical users) who use then stop marijuana
exerience minor aches and/or pains, can you point me in the right direction
on research or experience with that? Is is a full body ache or specific
part.<

Me neither, nor have I ever experiencedit msyelf, being a LONG time pot
smoker who has gone through periodic spells of not smoking- the only
“withdrawals” I’ve ever experienced were “gee, wish I had some pot but I
don’t- oh well,” then moved right on without a single ache nor pain
anywhere.
Weird. Am I a freak, or is the assertion that pot causes physical
withdrawal symptoms malarkey? (no offense, but I do think it is malarkey.)
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From:
To:
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 12:03 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] marijauana ache&pain reduce consumption

> “with some minor aches and pains”
> I’ve never heard of people (non-medical users) who use then stop marijuana
exerience minor aches and/or pains, can you point me in the right direction
on research or experience with that? Is is a full body ache or specific
part.
> By the way anyone see “crossballs” marijauana episode? Also ibogaine was
mentioned in a VH-1’s Johnny Deep documentary, not indepth, just the word
was used, probably they heard it in the book.
> > —–Original Message—–
> > From: jon [mailto:jfreed1@umbc.edu]
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2004, 1:34 PM
> > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > Subject: Re: [ibogaine] reduce consumption
> >
> >
> > > On a slightly different note, I’ve found that tonight is the worst
night
> > > so far withdrawal wise.
> > > As some of you know I went down last Tuesday 10 whole mils from 100 to
90
> > > and I had hardly any withdrawal. Then today almost a week later I
start
> > > feeling it tonight!
> > > I smoke a huge amount of pot and last night I ran out so that might
have
> > > something to do with it because for me (with me meth not dope) if I’m
a
> > > little sick if I smoke a little I feel better. But I’m tryin to save a
> > > little cash and clear my system out a little and 60 bucks for pot is
just
> > > too much for me with all of the expense I’m looking at in these next
> > > couple of weeks. I might shoot some dope tonight. No I wont but it was
> > > therapeutic to write it.
> > > Okay going for a walk to clear this sick sick head of mine. look
forward
> >
> > Running out of pot could certainly have done it… as benign a drug as
pot
> > usually is, it does often elicit a withdrawal syndrome if someone who
> > smokes frequently suddenly stops. Pot withdrawal is usually just some
> > irritability with some minor aches and pains and such, but together with
> > the reduction in your meth dose, that could very well be the culprit.
> >
> > If you can’t afford more pot, you might want to head down to a health
> > food/vitamin store and get some valerian root and/or kava.
> >
> >
> >
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> >
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> >
> >
>
>
>
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>
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>
>

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Bupe and depression
Date: July 21, 2004 at 5:36:55 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Julian,

I don’t know if Bupe or subutex would be better for depression.  It is only a schedule III drug and you think a doc could write for it and use if for off the record use.  You could always try it if you lucky.  One thing if your going to take the Igo be sure to tell them about the Wellbutrin.  Tell them a month beforehand so as not to waste a plane ticket.  Wellbutrin may not be a pure SSRI drug but it works on one of the three brain chemicals.  Don’t forget to tell them.  From what I understand you can switch from a met clinic to a bupe clinic with no problem, but that is just what I here.

It seems I called several  docs and ask about it but they never called me back.  Guess they want money rather than Medicare and state cards.  I really think that it would help me, patient number 1 fits me to the “T”.

I have noticed that when some people nod out I am up and ready to go.  I talk alot feel GREAT and never have no depression.  Of course when it wears off it is the same old shit.  Whatever goes up must come down.  Sad but true.

Let me know how your doing,

– JIM

Sapphirestardus@aol.com wrote:
Jim, that is a great site. Extremely informative and got me interested in checking it out for myself as a possibility. I have yet to locate a site like this about methadone and it’s antidepressant activity. It works as an antidepressant for me, especially the categories used in the buprenorphine site of high energy, friendliness and vigor. I also use wellbutrin but as of yet, having tried many medications, only opiates have provided me with that antidepressant effect I am looking for. You know even with smack, I nodded out in the beginning, but after a short while, I experienced what the PDR called ‘paradoxical stimulation’ which is what I needed for my depression. I lacked energy, motivation, vigor, strength etc. and only the opiates provided that. With methadone, I achieve those effects but there are other problems I don’t want.
Could buprenorphine provide an even better treatment for (my) depression?

Jim, thankyou for the data man, it really helped me.

Sincerely,
Julian

Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – 100MB free storage!

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] (OT) Re: [ibogaine] to Julian in regard to fish et al
Date: July 21, 2004 at 5:10:24 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

and as long as they came from mindvox, I never questioned it.<

Always be careful with attachments. I don’t open any of them unless someone
writes me specifically to say, “I’m posting/sending/including an attachment
in the NEXT email,” and when I myself post one, I make sure to make a note
that it is me doing so, not a worm/virus posting it.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 2:53 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] to Julian in regard to fish et al

Hey Callie! It was nice hearing from you but I’m sorry for your distress.I’m
curious about e-mails with attached sites and/or attached pictures. Is this
site totally secure or as secure as could be? I get alot of e-mail with
attachements and as long as they came from mindvox, I never questioned it.
Is that stupid of me? Most of the people sending the e-mail I know their
names but some I do not.
Hope you feel better soon Callie.

Sincerely,

Julian

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: (OT)-djing at Duck and meet at ibogaine conference)
Date: July 21, 2004 at 5:05:34 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

a-HA! That’s it Jon. I remember now. It was a very brief meet though, yes?
Lookin’ forward to our next meet.
Peace,
Preston (btw, for those in NYC, tonight in my last Wednesday night dj’ing at
Duck, after 11PM, til 4AM, so if anyone would like to swing by and listen to
great music, drink cheap alcohol or cheaper soda/water, and throw some
darts, please do stop by and say hello.)

—– Original Message —–
From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 1:13 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] (OT) Re: [ibogaine] FAQ’s – Considering Ibogaine

I have met you before Jon, I’m sure. This photo rings loud bells, but I
can’t remember where- maybe at the march itself? At Dana’s? Some party
or
activist event?
Hmmm.

yeah, we met at the ibogaine conference the spring before last =)

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] marijauana ache&pain reduce consumption
Date: July 21, 2004 at 4:44:49 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

weird. I admit, I do get a wee bit cranky sometimes when I’m out of herb
(wait, what am I saying. I’m ALWAYS out of herb, I never ever have any and
never possess any of that demond weed ever. That stuff is bad.)
Seriously though, thanks for posting this info. I sometimes forget I’m
not everyone, and not everyone is going to react/act the same as I as a
result of having/not having drugs of all kinds.
Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 12:54 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] marijauana ache&pain reduce consumption

“with some minor aches and pains”
I’ve never heard of people (non-medical users) who use then stop
marijuana
exerience minor aches and/or pains, can you point me in the right
direction on research or experience with that?  Is is a full body ache
or
specific part.

In my personal experience, the aches are similar to opiate withdrawal in
that it feels a bit like the flu; only far, far, FAR milder. =)

and here’s a couple journal articles i found on pub med…

Marijuana withdrawal in humans: effects of oral THC or divalproex.

Haney M, Hart CL, Vosburg SK, Nasser J, Bennett A, Zubaran C, Foltin RW.

New York State Psychiatric Institute, Department of Psychiatry, College of
Physicians and Surgeons of Columbia University, New York, NY 10032, USA.
mh235@columbia.edu

Abstinence following daily marijuana use can produce a withdrawal syndrome
characterized by negative mood (eg irritability, anxiety, misery), muscle
pain, chills, and decreased food intake. Two placebo-controlled,
within-subject studies investigated the effects of a cannabinoid agonist,
delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC: Study 1), and a mood stabilizer,
divalproex (Study 2), on symptoms of marijuana withdrawal. Participants
(n=7/study), who were not seeking treatment for their marijuana use,
reported smoking 6-10 marijuana cigarettes/day, 6-7 days/week. Study 1 was
a 15-day in-patient, 5-day outpatient, 15-day in-patient design. During
the in-patient phases, participants took oral THC capsules (0, 10 mg) five
times/day, 1 h prior to smoking marijuana (0.00, 3.04% THC). Active and
placebo marijuana were smoked on in-patient days 1-8, while only placebo
marijuana was smoked on days 9-14, that is, marijuana abstinence. Placebo
THC was administered each day, except during one of the abstinence phases
(days 9-14), when active THC was given. Mood, psychomotor task
performance, food intake, and sleep were measured. Oral THC administered
during marijuana abstinence decreased ratings of ‘anxious’, ‘miserable’,
‘trouble sleeping’, ‘chills’, and marijuana craving, and reversed large
decreases in food intake as compared to placebo, while producing no
intoxication. Study 2 was a 58-day, outpatient/in-patient design.
Participants were maintained on each divalproex dose (0, 1500 mg/day) for
29 days each. Each maintenance condition began with a 14-day outpatient
phase for medication induction or clearance and continued with a 15-day
in-patient phase. Divalproex decreased marijuana craving during
abstinence, yet increased ratings of ‘anxious’, ‘irritable’, ‘bad effect’,
and ‘tired.’ Divalproex worsened performance on psychomotor tasks, and
increased food intake regardless of marijuana condition. Thus, oral THC
decreased marijuana craving and withdrawal symptoms at a dose that was
subjectively indistinguishable from placebo. Divalproex worsened mood and
cognitive performance during marijuana abstinence. These data suggest that
oral THC, but not divalproex, may be useful in the treatment of marijuana
dependence.

The time course and significance of cannabis withdrawal.

Budney AJ, Moore BA, Vandrey RG, Hughes JR.

Department of Psychiatry, University of Vermont, South Burlington 05403,
USA. abudney@zoo.uvm.edu

Withdrawal symptoms following cessation of heavy cannabis (marijuana) use
have been reported, yet their time course and clinical importance have not
been established. A 50-day outpatient study assessed 18 marijuana users
during a 5-day smoking-as-usual phase followed by a 45-day abstinence
phase. Parallel assessment of 12 ex-users was obtained. A withdrawal
pattern was observed for aggression, anger, anxiety, decreased appetite,
decreased body weight, irritability, restlessness, shakiness, sleep
problems, and stomach pain. Onset typically occurred between Days 1-3,
peak effects between Days 2-6, and most effects lasted 4-14 days. The
magnitude and time course of these effects appeared comparable to tobacco
and other withdrawal syndromes. These effects likely contribute to the
development of dependence and difficulty stopping use. Criteria for
cannabis withdrawal are proposed.

A review of the published literature into cannabis withdrawal symptoms in
human users.

Smith NT.

Addictions Directorate, South London and Maudsley NHS Trust, Marina House,
63-65 Denmark Hill, London SE5 8RS, UK.

Recent experimental papers have been published suggesting the appearance
of withdrawal symptoms upon the cessation of cannabis use in human users
and proposing the introduction of a diagnostic category for such symptoms.
Research also continues to be published into the physiological effects of
cannabis on animals via self-administration paradigms and the use of
cannabinoid antagonists. Animal research does not provide a clear picture
of a consistent withdrawal effect. The literature on withdrawal symptoms
appearing in human users following the cessation of cannabis is
investigated in this paper to clarify this issue further and enhance the
scientific and lay debate on the status of the drug. Methodological
weaknesses in the literature are highlighted. These include variable
levels of drug-dose administered in laboratory conditions, lack of
controlled studies and the absence of definitions of the withdrawal
syndrome sought. It is suggested that the studies conducted to date do not
provide a strong evidence base for the drawing of any conclusions as to
the existence of a cannabis withdrawal syndrome in human users, or as to
the cause of symptoms reported by those abstaining from the drug. On the
basis of current research cannabis cannot be said to provide as clear a
withdrawal pattern as other drugs of abuse, such as opiates. However,
cannabis also highlights the need for a further defining of withdrawal, in
particular the position that rebound effects occupy in this phenomenon. It
is concluded that more controlled research might uncover a diagnosable
withdrawal syndrome in human users and that there may be a precedent for
the introduction of a cannabis withdrawal syndrome before the exact root
of it is known.

Abstinence symptoms following smoked marijuana in humans.

Haney M, Ward AS, Comer SD, Foltin RW, Fischman MW.

New York State Psychiatric Institute and Department of Psychiatry, College
of Physicians and Surgeons of Columbia University, NY 10032, USA.
mh235@columbia.edu

Symptoms of withdrawal after oral delta9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC)
administration have been reported, yet little is known about the
development of dependence on smoked marijuana in humans. In a 21-day
residential study, marijuana smokers (n = 12) worked on five psychomotor
tasks during the day (0915-1700 hours), and in the evening engaged in
recreational activities (1700-2330 hours); subjective-effects measures
were completed 10 times/day. Food and beverages were available ad libitum
from 0830 to 2330 hours. Marijuana cigarettes (0.0, 1.8, 3.1% THC) were
smoked at 1000, 1400, 1800, and 2200 hours. Placebo marijuana was
administered on days 1-4 . One of the active marijuana doses was
administered on days 5-8, followed by 4 days of placebo marijuana (days
9-12). The other concentration of active marijuana cigarettes was
administered on days 13-16, followed by 4 days of placebo marijuana (days
17-20); the order in which the high and low THC-concentration marijuana
cigarettes were administered was counter-balanced between groups. Both
active doses of marijuana increased ratings of “High,” and “Good Drug
Effect,” and increased food intake, while decreasing verbal interaction
compared to the placebo baseline (days 1-4). Abstinence from active
marijuana increased ratings such as “Anxious,” “Irritable,” and “Stomach
pain,” and significantly decreased food intake compared to baseline. This
empirical demonstration of withdrawal from smoked marijuana may suggest
that daily marijuana use may be maintained, at least in part, by the
alleviation of abstinence symptoms.

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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Fwd: A Picture Share!
Date: July 21, 2004 at 4:20:58 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Julian , I was a born Sabra. Since ’77 I live in the Netherlands.

Talk soon.

Sara
Van: Sapphirestardus@aol.com [mailto:Sapphirestardus@aol.com] 
Verzonden: woensdag 21 juli 2004 22:07
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [ibogaine] Fwd: A Picture Share!

Sara, you definitely don’t look as I pictured you. I know this is a dumb stereotype, but I figured being from the Netherlands, you’d have…you know…sort of light hair and blue eyes. I feel stupid but………….It’s nice to have your picture since I’m going to  see you in September. By the way I got my passport application, so I’ve started the ball rolling. 
                                                                              Sincerely, 
                                                                                        Julian

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Shiny Happy People!!!
Date: July 21, 2004 at 4:16:03 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Awwwwwww.I LOVE sharing pictures!
Sara, you are gorgeous! We are quite a good looking bunch!
Julian, I have not seen you yet. I seen Howard on his website. Fakeplacebo do you have a pic?
Thanks for sharing your faces! It is better for me when I have an image to put in my mind when I am corresponding!
Cool day so far!
Callie

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fwd: A Picture Share!
Date: July 21, 2004 at 4:07:17 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sara, you definitely don’t look as I pictured you. I know this is a dumb stereotype, but I figured being from the Netherlands, you’d have…you know…sort of light hair and blue eyes. I feel stupid but………….It’s nice to have your picture since I’m going to  see you in September. By the way I got my passport application, so I’ve started the ball rolling.
Sincerely,
Julian

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Fwd: A Picture Share!
Date: July 21, 2004 at 3:38:49 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

And this is my picture.

Sara
Van: Sapphirestardus@aol.com [mailto:Sapphirestardus@aol.com] 
Verzonden: woensdag 21 juli 2004 21:36
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [ibogaine] Fwd: A Picture Share!

Mark, the picture is fine.

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From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] FAQ’s – Considering Ibogaine
Date: July 21, 2004 at 3:37:26 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You know Steve it’s amazing how true it is about picturing people in our heads based on their words or how their voice sounds and how different it usually ends up. That is not how I picture you at all. But you look good man.
Julian

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fwd: A Picture Share!
Date: July 21, 2004 at 3:35:47 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Mark, the picture is fine.

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Check out MindVox -1996
Date: July 21, 2004 at 3:31:26 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yeah! OH WELL! But Howard, do you know the feeling most people taking methadone have when it begins to take effect? It’s not really euphoria but rather a ‘sense of well being. Energy, vigor talkativeness. I remember in jail, the guards used to call it ‘rocket fuel’ or ‘rocket juice’ . Every time they called you to get you medicated they’d say,”Robinson! Time for your Rocket Juice! Let’s go!”

Do you get that also from Buprenorphine? You know that type of well being and energy?                                Thanks for your time Howard,
Julian

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] FAQ’s – Considering Ibogaine
Date: July 21, 2004 at 3:25:50 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Fantastic Callie! When I get my money I’m going to get a digital and then I’ll post my ugly mug!
Thanks Callie,
Julian

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] reduce consumption
Date: July 21, 2004 at 3:23:38 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Even better than immodium is Lomotil, but you need a prescription the last I remember. It is related to the opiates and really stops the runs and withdrawal.
Regards,
Julian

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] FAQ’s – Considering Ibogaine
Date: July 21, 2004 at 3:21:51 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sounds cool to me!
Julian

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Bupe and depression
Date: July 21, 2004 at 3:20:08 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jim, that is a great site. Extremely informative and got me interested in checking it out for myself as a possibility. I have yet to locate a site like this about methadone and it’s antidepressant activity. It works as an antidepressant for me, especially the categories used in the buprenorphine site of high energy, friendliness and vigor. I also use wellbutrin but as of yet, having tried many medications, only opiates have provided me with that antidepressant effect I am looking for. You know even with smack, I nodded out in the beginning, but after a short while, I experienced what the PDR called ‘paradoxical stimulation’ which is what I needed for my depression. I lacked energy, motivation, vigor, strength etc. and only the opiates provided that. With methadone, I achieve those effects but there are other problems I don’t want.
Could buprenorphine provide an even better treatment for (my) depression?

Jim, thankyou for the data man, it really helped me.

Sincerely,
Julian

From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] contactInfoCurrent? via telephone (+1 (415) 904 0660) or email (info@wired.com).
Date: July 21, 2004 at 3:05:04 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Speaking of Patrick and the psychedelic temple, bro MindVox appears at
least 20 times in
wired, including a few articles about it, your words, lot of words, they
ran a Wired forum on
Mindvox. Why not tell anyone there you know about ibo?

The first MindVox article

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/1.05/cybernaut.html

7 years later, the last one 🙂 Sorry I know it may have bad memories
but it’s too funny. Now I
know where the encyclopida and everything2 entries come from which cross
link Mindvox
with “sex, drugs, mismanagement” 🙂

http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,3085,00.html

Peace out and if your going to turn your companies into a mess, make
it a real big one 🙂 🙂
🙂

Sex, drugs and mismanagement
Curtis

On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 09:48:56 -0700 iboga@ziplip.com,
UNEXPECTED_DATA_AFTER_ADDRESS@.SYNTAX-ERROR. wrote:
Is this current contact info for WIRED contact us via telephone (+1
(415) 904 0660) or email (info@wired.com). ? Any any contact info
to any and all  media (especially publications that have done reports
in the past like OMNI, and even the Bill O Reily show that Howard
was on “it seems to make you ask allot of questions doesn’t it?”
then no follow up report, gee I wonder why : )  Any contact information
snail mail, or perferably phone or fax, e-mailing them is like throwing
rocks at a tank except that at least makes some sound.  Any contact
info that isn’t auto-respond would be very appreciated.  If not lets
fund our own cable station, at least as an option and if they refuse
to let that happen then let everynews people know about the suppression
of another point of view in a ‘free speach’ agenda.  Any idea why
are iboga/ine people in NY not calling Howard Stern, he would jump
all over this if done right?  Have an orgasm going on in the background
while giving the facts about iboga/ine or have a phone sex person
doing her thing while giving facts about iboga/ine.  Give me the
number I’ll call.  I’m not sure, Howard would be awesome at getting
the job done, get a blow up blow job doll going at it with a migit
and your facts being told over it, that would be soooooo great
and lot’s of people across the country will hear about it.  And
learn about it, and the more people know about the lack of government
funding regarding FDA approved research for iboga/ineMC18 or anything
else a congressional hearing or Kerry or Bush might actually see
that it is in their favor to embrace this.  Actually, prohibition
has made them so saturated that they probaby couldn’t even embrace/support
the funding of independent research even if they though it was the
right thing to do.  You know, the man behind the man behind the man
factor.
Sorry so many posts, this list helps me and I am thankful to Patrick
and everyone at mindvox for this temple.
Be Well,
Jason

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
http://www.hushmail.com/services-messenger?l=434

Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
http://www.hushmail.com/about-affiliate?l=427

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From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] to Julian in regard to fish et al
Date: July 21, 2004 at 2:53:48 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Callie! It was nice hearing from you but I’m sorry for your distress.I’m curious about e-mails with attached sites and/or attached pictures. Is this site totally secure or as secure as could be? I get alot of e-mail with attachements and as long as they came from mindvox, I never questioned it. Is that stupid of me? Most of the people sending the e-mail I know their names but some I do not.
Hope you feel better soon Callie.
Sincerely,
Julian

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Julian’s computer was – Re: [ibogaine] Check out MindVox -1996
Date: July 21, 2004 at 2:47:44 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m on window but to show you my ignorance, I don’t even know what Ram is. I got the computer as a gift and everything I do with the computer I had to learn by trial and error. (feel sorry for me and my hardship? hahaha)

Julian

From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] 11111111111
Date: July 21, 2004 at 2:06:50 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jon,
Thank you for your reply.  It is good to hear the other side to better
understand.  I understand the compulsion part and the lack of appitite,
but I had never heard of aches and pain and sickness resulting from
stopping marijauana use after use.  I’ curious if similar case have been
reported from tobacco use?  Regardless, I think Prohibition of it promotes
terrorism and drug use and I believe the war on drugs is a war not
designed to succeed and that organized crime has made so much that it has
saturated media, political parties and has created the prison industrial
complex that continues to grow and grow as will the budget for the War on
Drugs, expecially things like the ‘Victory Act’ which links drug use with
terrorism, not drug prohibition, drug use.
But for real Jon thank you for your reply, I will be looking into it
futher and hope if you run across anything new let me know,

No doubt most of what the media and government tells us about drugs is BS;
especially the government.

I don’t think that the existence of a marijuana withdrawal syndrome in any
way supports the idea of prohibition. First of all, as we can see from the
people on the list, marijuana withdrawal doesn’t happen to a lot of
people. Second, even when it does happen, it usually doesn’t interfere
with the persons life. When I run out of weed, I’m just kinda grumpy and
surly for a couple days, and sometimes i get minor aches. But it doesn’t
affect the work i do, or interaction with friends or anything (though my
temper is probably somewhat shorter for a bit…ehe)

But most importantly, whatever marijuana’s withdrawal effects may be, they
are NOTHING compared to alcohol withdrawal. Hell, even heroin withdrawal
is a walk in the park compared to a bad case of alcohol withdrawal.

In fact, alcohol withdrawal is probably one of the most dangerous, if not
the most dangerous, types of withdrawal.

And it’s perfectly legal, of course.

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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] pot withdrawals
Date: July 21, 2004 at 2:00:27 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The only withdrawals I’ve ever experienced off of pot is slight crankiness.

_.dh

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From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Ibo and Paxil
Date: July 21, 2004 at 1:44:11 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You are one of quite a few people who I respect because I can tell when
someone knows what they are talking about.  I think you gave Randy good
advice but if the half life is say 12 hours and you double that to 24, I
do not think it would be good to give the person Ibo.  The PDR often says
two weeks for MAO inhibitors I would say the same about SSRI’s.  You may
want to check out the link I gave Randy in my last post.

thanx =)

like i said, i’m not a doctor, so the times i gave were just guesses based
on what i’ve read and experienced (when i’ve waited double the half life
before taking other things that could conceivable interact with the meds
i’m on, i haven’t had any problems).

But I would definately consult with a medical professional before using
that time scheme on someone other than myself =)

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From: iboga@ziplip.com <iboga@ziplip.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] 11111111111
Date: July 21, 2004 at 1:28:23 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jon,
Thank you for your reply.  It is good to hear the other side to better understand.  I understand the compulsion part and the lack of appitite, but I had never heard of aches and pain and sickness resulting from stopping marijauana use after use.  I’ curious if similar case have been reported from tobacco use?  Regardless, I think Prohibition of it promotes terrorism and drug use and I believe the war on drugs is a war not designed to succeed and that organized crime has made so much that it has saturated media, political parties and has created the prison industrial complex that continues to grow and grow as will the budget for the War on Drugs, expecially things like the ‘Victory Act’ which links drug use with terrorism, not drug prohibition, drug use.
But for real Jon thank you for your reply, I will be looking into it futher and hope if you run across anything new let me know,
Be Well,
Jason

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Ibo and Paxil
Date: July 21, 2004 at 1:40:16 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Jon,

In my last post I wrote IMO inhibitors when it should of been MAO inhibitors.  I tried all the antidepressents.  Effexor and Depakote(sp) and Wellburtin(SP) caused me problems with the first two causeing bad nightmares, bumping into walls (no not funny), and hallucinations that were not were not pleasant and talking to people who were not there.
The IMO inhibitors I think are seldom used as they conflict with things like cheese, chocolate and food products and medications.

I am scared of a few drugs SSRI types, methadone and llam which I never tried.  I would wait at the very least two weeks and maybe four before trying Ibo.   Of course this is a layman’s opinion.  If it is your life, check google and read several articles and see what you might find.  Then you can make a half-assed intelligent decision.  You can not make a full-assed intelligent decision until your a doc – LOL.

You are one of quite a few people who I respect because I can tell when someone knows what they are talking about.  I think you gave Randy good advice but if the half life is say 12 hours and you double that to 24, I do not think it would be good to give the person Ibo.  The PDR often says two weeks for MAO inhibitors I would say the same about SSRI’s.  You may want to check out the link I gave Randy in my last post.

Later,

– JIM

jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu> wrote:

> Iboga/ine with anti-depresants, should they be stopped before, how long
> before, and when or should they be started back up again? A link would
> help.

The number of days to stop an antidepressant before ibogaine would most
likely depend on its half-life. Short acting antidepressents like effexor
(note, NOT effexor XR) may have a half life as short as 5 hours, while
other antidepressants, such as remeron have a half life of up to 40 hours.

I would suspect allowing about double the half life would probably be
safe, but I’m not a medical doctor or anything, so please don’t take this
as gospel.

Ibogaine itself has a fairly short half life, usually from an hour to a
few hours, but it’s metabolite noribogaine, which is also
psychopharmicalogically active, has a very, very long half. I haven’t been
able to find a good estimation of noribogaine’s half-life, but the reports
I have found seem to indicate that it is probably at least a couple days.
Possibly even longer, because it’s absorbed by fat cells.

So I would probably hazard a guess to say that SSRI’s shouldn’t be resumed
for at least a week or two after ibogaine’s primary effects have ended.
After a week or two, I would probably evaluate the patient, possible with
a Hamilton Depression Rating Scale or some other such psychometric, and
determine whether or not the antidepressants should be resumed judging by
that. If the client does need to resume antidepressants, I probably
wouldn’t start him/her on a full dose again immediately, but rather would
start low and increase the dose slowly as when s/he was first prescribed
them.

jon

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Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete – You start. We finish.

From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Ibo and Paxil
Date: July 21, 2004 at 1:17:42 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I would pay close attention to what Jon said.  When they switch drugs they
often want a person to go two or weeks when using an IMO (I forget the
initals some kind of oxide inhibitor, used to see it all the time in the
PDR) it can be fatal when mixed with paxel and other SSRI.

Yeah, MAOI’s have a LOT of interaction precautions. But they aren’t used
very much anymore, pretty much only when nothing else has worked.

First you may have to cut down because there can be withdrawel, some doc
do not believe it.  You can believe it or not, take a look at this link
http://paxil.bizland.com/jbuzzw.htm

I can definately attest to this… I don’t think i ever got withdrawal
from paxil, but remeron gives me HELLA withdrawal…

and you will at least have some info to help you make up your mind.  No, I
am not a doc or anything in the medical field.  Just read a lot.  But from
what I have read it is no game, the SSRI are BAD.  I could go on and tell
you the Columbine High Students were on some kind of SSRI type drugs, as
well as they lady in Texas who drowned her kids, I could go on and on you
but you can do your own research – can’t beat Google.  And read more than
one article.  Of all the complications I would say IMO and SSRI would be
the biggest.  But what do I know?

Well, I wouldn’t say that SSRI’s are bad… I mean, i’m pretty sure that
they saved my life. But like with many drugs, they need to be treated with
respect and caution… they can be very powerfool tools for helping
people, but they can be dangerous if used carelessly.

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From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] (OT) Re: [ibogaine] FAQ’s – Considering Ibogaine
Date: July 21, 2004 at 1:13:17 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I have met you before Jon, I’m sure. This photo rings loud bells, but I
can’t remember where- maybe at the march itself? At Dana’s? Some party or
activist event?
Hmmm.

yeah, we met at the ibogaine conference the spring before last =)

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From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] pot withdrawals? LOL!
Date: July 21, 2004 at 1:12:23 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Me neither, nor have I ever experiencedit msyelf, being a LONG time pot
smoker who has gone through periodic spells of not smoking- the only
“withdrawals” I’ve ever experienced were “gee, wish I had some pot but I
don’t- oh well,” then moved right on without a single ache nor pain
anywhere.
Weird. Am I a freak, or is the assertion that pot causes physical
withdrawal symptoms malarkey? (no offense, but I do think it is malarkey.)

Not all pot heads seem to exhibit withdrawal, but it certainly isn’t
uncommon.

I know I get some symptoms when I first stop, and I know my roommate’s
girlfriend does, cause i have to deal with her bitchiness…eheh

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From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Ibo and Paxil
Date: July 21, 2004 at 1:10:43 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Iboga/ine with anti-depresants, should they be stopped before, how long
before, and when or should they be started back up again?  A link would
help.

The number of days to stop an antidepressant before ibogaine would most
likely depend on its half-life. Short acting antidepressents like effexor
(note, NOT effexor XR) may have a half life as short as 5 hours, while
other antidepressants, such as remeron have a half life of up to 40 hours.

I would suspect allowing about double the half life would probably be
safe, but I’m not a medical doctor or anything, so please don’t take this
as gospel.

Ibogaine itself has a fairly short half life, usually from an hour to a
few hours, but it’s metabolite noribogaine, which is also
psychopharmicalogically active, has a very, very long half. I haven’t been
able to find a good estimation of noribogaine’s half-life, but the reports
I have found seem to indicate that it is probably at least a couple days.
Possibly even longer, because it’s absorbed by fat cells.

So I would probably hazard a guess to say that SSRI’s shouldn’t be resumed
for at least a week or two after ibogaine’s primary effects have ended.
After a week or two, I would probably evaluate the patient, possible with
a Hamilton Depression Rating Scale or some other such psychometric, and
determine whether or not the antidepressants should be resumed judging by
that. If the client does need to resume antidepressants, I probably
wouldn’t  start him/her on a full dose again immediately, but rather would
start low and increase the dose slowly as when s/he was first prescribed
them.

jon

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Ibo and Paxil
Date: July 21, 2004 at 1:10:06 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Randy,

I would pay close attention to what Jon said.  When they switch drugs they often want a person to go two or weeks when using an IMO (I forget the initals some kind of oxide inhibitor, used to see it all the time in the PDR) it can be fatal when mixed with paxel and other SSRI.

First you may have to cut down because there can be withdrawel, some doc do not believe it.  You can believe it or not, take a look at this link http://paxil.bizland.com/jbuzzw.htm

and you will at least have some info to help you make up your mind.  No, I am not a doc or anything in the medical field.  Just read a lot.  But from what I have read it is no game, the SSRI are BAD.  I could go on and tell you the Columbine High Students were on some kind of SSRI type drugs, as well as they lady in Texas who drowned her kids, I could go on and on you but you can do your own research – can’t beat Google.  And read more than one article.  Of all the complications I would say IMO and SSRI would be the biggest.  But what do I know?

Best to ya,

– JIM

iboga@ziplip.com, UNEXPECTED_DATA_AFTER_ADDRESS@.SYNTAX-ERROR. wrote:
Iboga/ine with anti-depresants, should they be stopped before, how long before, and when or should they be started back up again? A link would help.
> —–Original Message—–
> From: jon [mailto:jfreed1@umbc.edu]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2004, 2:02 PM
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Ibo and Paxil
>
>
> > I may have been on the road and missed it but is there any info on
> > Ibogaine
> > and Paxil?. Randy
>
>
> I have yet to come across any real research on it, but it would seem
> reasonable to me to wait AT LEAST as long as paxil’s half-life (and
> preferably LONGER) before dosing with ibogaine.
>
> The reason being that paxil is an SSRI, and ibogaine is a serotonin
> agonist. Combining SSRI’s and SE agonists can be very dangerous, even
> fatal.
>
>
>
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>

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Do you Yahoo!?
Vote for the stars of Yahoo!’s next ad campaign!

From: iboga@ziplip.com <iboga@ziplip.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] contactInfoCurrent? via telephone (+1 (415) 904 0660) or email (info@wired.com).
Date: July 21, 2004 at 12:48:56 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Is this current contact info for WIRED contact us via telephone (+1 (415) 904 0660) or email (info@wired.com). ? Any any contact info to any and all  media (especially publications that have done reports in the past like OMNI, and even the Bill O Reily show that Howard was on “it seems to make you ask allot of questions doesn’t it?” then no follow up report, gee I wonder why : )  Any contact information snail mail, or perferably phone or fax, e-mailing them is like throwing rocks at a tank except that at least makes some sound.  Any contact info that isn’t auto-respond would be very appreciated.  If not lets fund our own cable station, at least as an option and if they refuse to let that happen then let everynews people know about the suppression of another point of view in a ‘free speach’ agenda.  Any idea why are iboga/ine people in NY not calling Howard Stern, he would jump all over this if done right?  Have an orgasm going on in the background while giving the facts about iboga/ine or have a phone sex person doing her thing while giving facts about iboga/ine.  Give me the number I’ll call.  I’m not sure, Howard would be awesome at getting the job done, get a blow up blow job doll going at it with a migit and your facts being told over it, that would be soooooo great
and lot’s of people across the country will hear about it.  And learn about it, and the more people know about the lack of government funding regarding FDA approved research for iboga/ineMC18 or anything else a congressional hearing or Kerry or Bush might actually see that it is in their favor to embrace this.  Actually, prohibition has made them so saturated that they probaby couldn’t even embrace/support the funding of independent research even if they though it was the right thing to do.  You know, the man behind the man behind the man factor.
Sorry so many posts, this list helps me and I am thankful to Patrick and everyone at mindvox for this temple.
Be Well,
Jason
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From: iboga@ziplip.com <iboga@ziplip.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Help Follow-up 93 WIRED article
Date: July 21, 2004 at 12:29:59 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://web.archive.org/web/19970606074337/http://ig.cs.tu-berlin.de:80/PE/WIRED/1.5/departments/electrosphere/mindvox.html
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From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] marijauana ache&pain reduce consumption
Date: July 21, 2004 at 12:54:01 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“with some minor aches and pains”
I’ve never heard of people (non-medical users) who use then stop marijuana
exerience minor aches and/or pains, can you point me in the right
direction on research or experience with that?  Is is a full body ache or
specific part.

In my personal experience, the aches are similar to opiate withdrawal in
that it feels a bit like the flu; only far, far, FAR milder. =)

and here’s a couple journal articles i found on pub med…

Marijuana withdrawal in humans: effects of oral THC or divalproex.

Haney M, Hart CL, Vosburg SK, Nasser J, Bennett A, Zubaran C, Foltin RW.

New York State Psychiatric Institute, Department of Psychiatry, College of
Physicians and Surgeons of Columbia University, New York, NY 10032, USA.
mh235@columbia.edu

Abstinence following daily marijuana use can produce a withdrawal syndrome
characterized by negative mood (eg irritability, anxiety, misery), muscle
pain, chills, and decreased food intake. Two placebo-controlled,
within-subject studies investigated the effects of a cannabinoid agonist,
delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC: Study 1), and a mood stabilizer,
divalproex (Study 2), on symptoms of marijuana withdrawal. Participants
(n=7/study), who were not seeking treatment for their marijuana use,
reported smoking 6-10 marijuana cigarettes/day, 6-7 days/week. Study 1 was
a 15-day in-patient, 5-day outpatient, 15-day in-patient design. During
the in-patient phases, participants took oral THC capsules (0, 10 mg) five
times/day, 1 h prior to smoking marijuana (0.00, 3.04% THC). Active and
placebo marijuana were smoked on in-patient days 1-8, while only placebo
marijuana was smoked on days 9-14, that is, marijuana abstinence. Placebo
THC was administered each day, except during one of the abstinence phases
(days 9-14), when active THC was given. Mood, psychomotor task
performance, food intake, and sleep were measured. Oral THC administered
during marijuana abstinence decreased ratings of ‘anxious’, ‘miserable’,
‘trouble sleeping’, ‘chills’, and marijuana craving, and reversed large
decreases in food intake as compared to placebo, while producing no
intoxication. Study 2 was a 58-day, outpatient/in-patient design.
Participants were maintained on each divalproex dose (0, 1500 mg/day) for
29 days each. Each maintenance condition began with a 14-day outpatient
phase for medication induction or clearance and continued with a 15-day
in-patient phase. Divalproex decreased marijuana craving during
abstinence, yet increased ratings of ‘anxious’, ‘irritable’, ‘bad effect’,
and ‘tired.’ Divalproex worsened performance on psychomotor tasks, and
increased food intake regardless of marijuana condition. Thus, oral THC
decreased marijuana craving and withdrawal symptoms at a dose that was
subjectively indistinguishable from placebo. Divalproex worsened mood and
cognitive performance during marijuana abstinence. These data suggest that
oral THC, but not divalproex, may be useful in the treatment of marijuana
dependence.

The time course and significance of cannabis withdrawal.

Budney AJ, Moore BA, Vandrey RG, Hughes JR.

Department of Psychiatry, University of Vermont, South Burlington 05403,
USA. abudney@zoo.uvm.edu

Withdrawal symptoms following cessation of heavy cannabis (marijuana) use
have been reported, yet their time course and clinical importance have not
been established. A 50-day outpatient study assessed 18 marijuana users
during a 5-day smoking-as-usual phase followed by a 45-day abstinence
phase. Parallel assessment of 12 ex-users was obtained. A withdrawal
pattern was observed for aggression, anger, anxiety, decreased appetite,
decreased body weight, irritability, restlessness, shakiness, sleep
problems, and stomach pain. Onset typically occurred between Days 1-3,
peak effects between Days 2-6, and most effects lasted 4-14 days. The
magnitude and time course of these effects appeared comparable to tobacco
and other withdrawal syndromes. These effects likely contribute to the
development of dependence and difficulty stopping use. Criteria for
cannabis withdrawal are proposed.

A review of the published literature into cannabis withdrawal symptoms in
human users.

Smith NT.

Addictions Directorate, South London and Maudsley NHS Trust, Marina House,
63-65 Denmark Hill, London SE5 8RS, UK.

Recent experimental papers have been published suggesting the appearance
of withdrawal symptoms upon the cessation of cannabis use in human users
and proposing the introduction of a diagnostic category for such symptoms.
Research also continues to be published into the physiological effects of
cannabis on animals via self-administration paradigms and the use of
cannabinoid antagonists. Animal research does not provide a clear picture
of a consistent withdrawal effect. The literature on withdrawal symptoms
appearing in human users following the cessation of cannabis is
investigated in this paper to clarify this issue further and enhance the
scientific and lay debate on the status of the drug. Methodological
weaknesses in the literature are highlighted. These include variable
levels of drug-dose administered in laboratory conditions, lack of
controlled studies and the absence of definitions of the withdrawal
syndrome sought. It is suggested that the studies conducted to date do not
provide a strong evidence base for the drawing of any conclusions as to
the existence of a cannabis withdrawal syndrome in human users, or as to
the cause of symptoms reported by those abstaining from the drug. On the
basis of current research cannabis cannot be said to provide as clear a
withdrawal pattern as other drugs of abuse, such as opiates. However,
cannabis also highlights the need for a further defining of withdrawal, in
particular the position that rebound effects occupy in this phenomenon. It
is concluded that more controlled research might uncover a diagnosable
withdrawal syndrome in human users and that there may be a precedent for
the introduction of a cannabis withdrawal syndrome before the exact root
of it is known.

Abstinence symptoms following smoked marijuana in humans.

Haney M, Ward AS, Comer SD, Foltin RW, Fischman MW.

New York State Psychiatric Institute and Department of Psychiatry, College
of Physicians and Surgeons of Columbia University, NY 10032, USA.
mh235@columbia.edu

Symptoms of withdrawal after oral delta9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC)
administration have been reported, yet little is known about the
development of dependence on smoked marijuana in humans. In a 21-day
residential study, marijuana smokers (n = 12) worked on five psychomotor
tasks during the day (0915-1700 hours), and in the evening engaged in
recreational activities (1700-2330 hours); subjective-effects measures
were completed 10 times/day. Food and beverages were available ad libitum
from 0830 to 2330 hours. Marijuana cigarettes (0.0, 1.8, 3.1% THC) were
smoked at 1000, 1400, 1800, and 2200 hours. Placebo marijuana was
administered on days 1-4 . One of the active marijuana doses was
administered on days 5-8, followed by 4 days of placebo marijuana (days
9-12). The other concentration of active marijuana cigarettes was
administered on days 13-16, followed by 4 days of placebo marijuana (days
17-20); the order in which the high and low THC-concentration marijuana
cigarettes were administered was counter-balanced between groups. Both
active doses of marijuana increased ratings of “High,” and “Good Drug
Effect,” and increased food intake, while decreasing verbal interaction
compared to the placebo baseline (days 1-4). Abstinence from active
marijuana increased ratings such as “Anxious,” “Irritable,” and “Stomach
pain,” and significantly decreased food intake compared to baseline. This
empirical demonstration of withdrawal from smoked marijuana may suggest
that daily marijuana use may be maintained, at least in part, by the
alleviation of abstinence symptoms.

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] (OT) Re: [ibogaine] FAQ’s – Considering Ibogaine
Date: July 21, 2004 at 12:47:47 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I have met you before Jon, I’m sure. This photo rings loud bells, but I
can’t remember where- maybe at the march itself? At Dana’s? Some party or
activist event?
Hmmm.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 12:28 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] FAQ’s – Considering Ibogaine

me too! here I am! Not a virus! lol! Any other ‘brave souls’  out there
that
will share picture?

eheh… sure…

here’s a pic of me playing at the million marijuana march last spring =)

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] pot withdrawals? LOL!
Date: July 21, 2004 at 12:46:47 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’ve never heard of people (non-medical users) who use then stop marijuana
exerience minor aches and/or pains, can you point me in the right direction
on research or experience with that?  Is is a full body ache or specific
part.<

Me neither, nor have I ever experiencedit msyelf, being a LONG time pot
smoker who has gone through periodic spells of not smoking- the only
“withdrawals” I’ve ever experienced were “gee, wish I had some pot but I
don’t- oh well,” then moved right on without a single ache nor pain
anywhere.
Weird. Am I a freak, or is the assertion that pot causes physical
withdrawal symptoms malarkey? (no offense, but I do think it is malarkey.)
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: <iboga@ziplip.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 12:03 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] marijauana ache&pain reduce consumption

“with some minor aches and pains”
I’ve never heard of people (non-medical users) who use then stop marijuana
exerience minor aches and/or pains, can you point me in the right direction
on research or experience with that?  Is is a full body ache or specific
part.
By the way anyone see “crossballs” marijauana episode? Also ibogaine was
mentioned in a VH-1’s Johnny Deep documentary, not indepth, just the word
was used, probably they heard it in the book.
—–Original Message—–
From: jon [mailto:jfreed1@umbc.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2004, 1:34 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] reduce consumption

On a slightly different note, I’ve found that tonight is the worst
night
so far withdrawal wise.
As some of you know I went down last Tuesday 10 whole mils from 100 to
90
and I had hardly any withdrawal. Then today almost a week later I
start
feeling it tonight!
I smoke a huge amount of pot and last night I ran out so that might
have
something to do with it because for me (with me meth not dope) if I’m
a
little sick if I smoke a little I feel better. But I’m tryin to save a
little cash and clear my system out a little and 60 bucks for pot is
just
too much for me with all of the expense I’m looking at in these next
couple of weeks. I might shoot some dope tonight. No I wont but it was
therapeutic to write it.
Okay going for a walk to clear this sick sick head of mine. look
forward

Running out of pot could certainly have done it… as benign a drug as
pot
usually is, it does often elicit a withdrawal syndrome if someone who
smokes frequently suddenly stops. Pot withdrawal is usually just some
irritability with some minor aches and pains and such, but together with
the reduction in your meth dose, that could very well be the culprit.

If you can’t afford more pot, you might want to head down to a health
food/vitamin store and get some valerian root and/or kava.

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From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] lou reed – wasTapering Down + “Detoxing” prior to Ibogaine
Date: July 21, 2004 at 12:35:19 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

what album is that “last shot” on please jon?
Thanks.

it was originally relased on “legendary hearts”, and it’s on a bunch of
different lou reed compilations as well =)

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From: iboga@ziplip.com <iboga@ziplip.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Ibo and Paxil
Date: July 21, 2004 at 12:18:39 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Iboga/ine with anti-depresants, should they be stopped before, how long before, and when or should they be started back up again?  A link would help.
—–Original Message—–
From: jon [mailto:jfreed1@umbc.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2004, 2:02 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Ibo and Paxil

I may have been on the road and missed it but is there any info on
Ibogaine
and Paxil?.  Randy

I have yet to come across any real research on it, but it would seem
reasonable to me to wait AT LEAST as long as paxil’s half-life (and
preferably LONGER) before dosing with ibogaine.

The reason being that paxil is an SSRI, and ibogaine is a serotonin
agonist. Combining SSRI’s and SE agonists can be very dangerous, even
fatal.

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From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] FAQ’s – Considering Ibogaine
Date: July 21, 2004 at 12:28:05 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

me too! here I am! Not a virus! lol! Any other ‘brave souls’  out there
that
will share picture?

eheh… sure…

here’s a pic of me playing at the million marijuana march last spring =)

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From: iboga@ziplip.com <iboga@ziplip.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] marijauana ache&pain reduce consumption
Date: July 21, 2004 at 12:03:08 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“with some minor aches and pains”
I’ve never heard of people (non-medical users) who use then stop marijuana exerience minor aches and/or pains, can you point me in the right direction on research or experience with that?  Is is a full body ache or specific part.
By the way anyone see “crossballs” marijauana episode? Also ibogaine was mentioned in a VH-1’s Johnny Deep documentary, not indepth, just the word was used, probably they heard it in the book.
—–Original Message—–
From: jon [mailto:jfreed1@umbc.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2004, 1:34 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] reduce consumption

On a slightly different note, I’ve found that tonight is the worst night
so far withdrawal wise.
As some of you know I went down last Tuesday 10 whole mils from 100 to 90
and I had hardly any withdrawal. Then today almost a week later I start
feeling it tonight!
I smoke a huge amount of pot and last night I ran out so that might have
something to do with it because for me (with me meth not dope) if I’m a
little sick if I smoke a little I feel better. But I’m tryin to save a
little cash and clear my system out a little and 60 bucks for pot is just
too much for me with all of the expense I’m looking at in these next
couple of weeks. I might shoot some dope tonight. No I wont but it was
therapeutic to write it.
Okay going for a walk to clear this sick sick head of mine. look forward

Running out of pot could certainly have done it… as benign a drug as pot
usually is, it does often elicit a withdrawal syndrome if someone who
smokes frequently suddenly stops. Pot withdrawal is usually just some
irritability with some minor aches and pains and such, but together with
the reduction in your meth dose, that could very well be the culprit.

If you can’t afford more pot, you might want to head down to a health
food/vitamin store and get some valerian root and/or kava.

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From: iboga@ziplip.com <iboga@ziplip.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] AnyoneFormer’done gone2Bupe
Date: July 21, 2004 at 11:44:41 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Can anyone point me in the right direction on where to find information from people who have used methadone and switched to Bup as to how they felt they were different.  I think they are some of the few people who aren’t paid off and I trust their oppinion a bit more.  Any links or personal expereince is appreciated.
Jason
—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: 20 Jul 04, 4:40 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Bupe and depression
Hi Julian,

Here is a link I gave for bupe and depression.  Tried my doc but he knows nothing about it and won’t give it to me.  Can’t say I blame him.

Take a look if you want.   http://balder.prohosting.com/~adhpage/bupe.html

Later,

– JIM

Sapphirestardus@aol.com wrote:
Howard, I’ve got a question about Buprenorphine treatment. In something I just read, it stated that this treatment, the drug not only does what it’s intended for but it also provides anti-depressant activity, a sense of well-being and an innate or rather an endogenous lack of desire to get high?   As usual, thamks for your time
Julian

Do you Yahoo!?
Vote for the stars of Yahoo!’s next ad campaign!

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From: iboga@ziplip.com <iboga@ziplip.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] dia-shits reduce consumption
Date: July 21, 2004 at 11:37:47 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yogurt with every meal really helped me wit that.  I’m not big on yogurt but it helped.
—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: 20 Jul 04, 4:56 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] reduce consumption
Hi Jon,

We all wish you well.  If you don’t mind another tip, I found Imodium seems to help the shits and seems to relax the stomach.  Also, in the PDR it says that they experimented on some monkeys and it seemed to stop withdrawel systems when used in a higher than normal quanity.  How much is higher than normal, I don’t know.  But I have been using it for years.

Hang in there,

– JIM

jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu> wrote:

> On a slightly different note, I’ve found that tonight is the worst night
> so far withdrawal wise.
> As some of you know I went down last Tuesday 10 whole mils from 100 to 90
> and I had hardly any withdrawal. Then today almost a week later I start
> feeling it tonight!
> I smoke a huge amount of pot and last night I ran out so that might have
> something to do with it because for me (with me meth not dope) if I’m a
> little sick if I smoke a little I feel better. But I’m tryin to save a
> little cash and clear my system out a little and 60 bucks for pot is just
> too much for me with all of the expense I’m looking at in these next
> couple of weeks. I might shoot some dope tonight. No I wont but it was
> therapeutic to write it.
> Okay going for a walk to clear this sick sick head of mine. look forward

Running out of pot could certainly have done it… as benign a drug as pot
usually is, it does often elicit a withdrawal syndrome if someone who
smokes frequently suddenly stops. Pot withdrawal is usually just some
irritability with some minor aches and pains and such, but together with
the reduction in your meth dose, that could very well be the culprit.

If you can’t afford more pot, you might want to head down to a health
food/vitamin store and get some valerian root and/or kava.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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Do you Yahoo!?
Vote for the stars of Yahoo!’s next ad campaign!

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From: iboga@ziplip.com <iboga@ziplip.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] VIRUS
Date: July 21, 2004 at 10:33:51 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On a related note, the CIA director came out against the formation (like not exist) of an executive intelligence agency.  The story link I saw to it was gone after about 5 minutes and I didn’t see a word of it on TV News, but I’m not like glued to a TV so it very well could have slipped by.
Anyway my question is are people getting attachments from my e-mails from mindvox, because everyone, for a while now, comes back to me with an attacment that I didn’t put there because I DON’T SEND ATTACHMENTS.
So please never ever ever open attachments from me.  If anyone knows where to get some free lynix please let me know, security loopholes in XP is an understatment.
Jason
—– Original Message —–
From: Reynaldo Gonzalez <pacopaco44@yahoo.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: 20 Jul 04, 11:00 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] VIRUS
then who

Sapphirestardus@aol.com wrote:
Callie didn’t send those messages. She always and I mean ALWAYS writes her letters in large, blue print style!

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – 50x more storage than other providers!

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From: iboga@ziplip.com <iboga@ziplip.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] *mark*reduce consumption -iboga zip
Date: July 21, 2004 at 10:15:08 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Mark,
I could understand the therory better if stopping ALL dose before hand, but isn’t 90 still doing what the other 10 were doing?  It also makes me ask the question, if going down 10 is that bad, imagine how bad going all 100 would have been during first a 4-7 days, when the sickness says “you think your serious about this, lets roll then bitch” and the consistency intensifies.  But I think the ibo will help but not in the same way methadone* (*causes sickness) without the astrick.

I feel you bro on the sickness.  I kicked a nice size dose of orlaam cold turkey and sick was so bad I slept only 4 hours for six weeks.  I still have orlaam highlighters that say Orlaam (may be habit forming) lol  I think your idea that it depends what you compair it to is perhaps a good way to go, because it could be much worse.

Have you talked to your provider yet?  I agree that would be best.  If you are feeling too sick, perhaps this is preperation mentally to better mentally prepair for ibo, who knows.

I do, however, agree that a shot or two of morphine or good old deladid(from a doctor)before hand would be of good use in long lasting opioids.

By the way, has anyone kicked bup with ibo yet and how did it go?
I wonder if quitting methadone and going to bup is considered resonable by your provider?

So correct me if I’m wrong but Thursday is your dose?  Any idea around what part of day/night?

Wind will carry, so you are not alone.  As far as fear is concerned, if you feel it, which you likely won’t, seek the lesson in it.  I think you will get out of it as much as you put it (reap what sow) and it sounds like you will get through it no matter what and I think that’s cool as hell).  May you have a productive journey.

With Love to you and your family,
Jason
—–Original Message—–
From: D H [mailto:dave@phantom.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2004, 12:32 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] reduce consumption -iboga zip

maybe its not the worst idea to do it as a suppository?

not a bad idea, that is if you are not projectile splattering because
of the 2 days of withdrawal.

then it may be difficult to “retain” the medicine.

_.dh

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From: “mcorcoran27” <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] me.
Date: July 21, 2004 at 9:17:11 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

sorry all. this is me in the attach.

Your files are attached and ready to send with this message.
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] (OT!) more photos with phones
Date: July 21, 2004 at 6:32:03 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

as I think I’ve noted here before recently, there’re more photos at
http://www.drugwar.com/PrestonPeetIndex.shtm.
Enjoy the tour, as there’s plenty of both reporting and creative writing
amongst the scattered photos.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “raven” <raven@darkwingbird.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 3:24 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] (OT!) more photos with phones

Funny Preston…you look almost exactly like I thought you would…just a
slight bit thicker in the face than I had envisioned.

On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 03:14:23 -0400, Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
wrote:

Mark wrote “I just got a new picture phone…”
So too did V, so she just snapped a couple of shots just now, one of me
experiencing pain relief in the kitchen (shhh), and one at my work
station where I sit and work on my computer. I’ve got newly colored
hair, although it ain’t too obvious here- black and purple.
Peace all,
Preston


Using Opera’s revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/

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From: laurentsazy@free.fr <laurentsazy@free.fr>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] looking for answers.
Date: July 21, 2004 at 5:52:03 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Le 20 juil. 04, à 22:22, Sara Glatt a écrit :

“Byeri were generally consulted after the use of narcotic plant products. “Alan,” also known as “malan,” is the main drug used by initiates into the byeri cult. According to J. Fernandez, “the root of the alan bush is ground up, powdered, dried and consumed while sitting exposed to the morning and midday sun.” Fernandez says the purpose of this drug’s use is to “break open the head (akwia nlo),” so as to connect with the spiritual realms. Alan reputedly has hallucinogenic, stimulating and aphrodisiac properties. Fernandez did an extensive study of drug use among the Fang and related tribes. He documents the use of four types of narcotics that “enter into their cult rituals.” These are “alan” – Alchornea floribunda; “eboka” – Tabernanthe iboga, which has ibogaine as its main alkaloid; “ayan beyem” – Elaeophorbia drupifera; and “beyama” – Cannabis .

Fernandez writes that “the latex of ayan beyem was employed in the ancestral cult among the Fang when the ingestion of malan was slow in showing effect. A parrot’s red tail feather dipped in the mixture was brushed across the eyeballs. The latex appears to affect the optical nerves, producing bizarre visual states.” He also writes that cults in Southern Gabon mix malan with eboka. Fernandez gives a lot of data on the connected bwiti cult which primarily uses the drug eboka. Followed mainly by the interrelated Tsogo or “Mitsogho” tribe of Gabon, according to him this is “a night cult of the female principle of the universe.”

 

Is there a Malan+eboka  journey report ? or any report on ayan beyem Journey?

What kind of narcotic plans are used in Gabon?

Knowledge is appreciated ,

Sara

 

Dear  Sarah,

From what i saw in Gabon:
during initiations, mostly the day after the first night, they took banzi outside the temple to face the sun.At the same time,one nganga prepare a “végétal cornet”(moukemou) with  plant to put a collyre in the banzi’s eyes . This, to clean eyes and to have visions.
This is also to active your eyes ray which are the same to solar ray from what they said.(amorphophallus maculatus+aframomum sanguineum+euphorbia hermantiana+mimosa pigra+buchholzia macrophylla)

the best is you ask hugues poitevin(ebando in gabon)
or try Raponda -walker fondation /books:
1) les plantes utiles du gabon /
2) rites et croyances des peuples du gabon

in fact, it depend of the ritual, fang, tsogho, missoko or either and mostly from which plants use the Nganga.
Some nganga will tell you that cannabis is not good and others will tell you that cannabis is good.

list:
-iboga
-alchornea floribunda mix with iboga
– spirit plant: mundju
-olumi, copaifera religiosa
– a lot of plants are used everyday for initiations, medicals treatment etc etc

Laurent

From: “FakePlacebo” <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] XP Spy programs and anti spy tool
Date: July 21, 2004 at 4:12:05 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

To The Friends In The Group Who Could Be Windows XP User,

As you know Windows XP including so many spy tools like the programs sending reports about your user profile. This tools are emmebed  and you can not uninstall. For example there is no way to delete or uninstall MS Mesennger. This programs also decreasing your internet connetcion speed; beacuse they are using this connection for themselves.

I’m sending you a powerfull tool that you can uninstall XP spay tools. This little program is very safe and you can trust it and me. Just double click on it and chose the secret spy components os Win XP and simply remove it.

Best Regards
FakePlacebo

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From: raven <raven@darkwingbird.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] (OT!) more photos with phones
Date: July 21, 2004 at 3:24:27 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Funny Preston…you look almost exactly like I thought you would…just a slight bit thicker in the face than I had envisioned.

On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 03:14:23 -0400, Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:

Mark wrote “I just got a new picture phone…”
So too did V, so she just snapped a couple of shots just now, one of me experiencing pain relief in the kitchen (shhh), and one at my work station where I sit and work on my computer. I’ve got newly colored hair, although it ain’t too obvious here- black and purple.
Peace all,
Preston


Using Opera’s revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/

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From: “naeher” <ibo_ka@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Nicotine
Date: July 20, 2004 at 10:49:18 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Giovanni

Just for curiosity: it’s strange but it  seems to me that the problem with
the x-files doesn’t lie so much at the version of XP , but at the account it
was created on. I protected the files again and could not open them even on
the same computer when I used a different account on it (that is:  i created
one account for Raffaella and one for me on the same computer).

Greetings
Karl

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] (OT!) more photos with phones
Date: July 21, 2004 at 3:14:23 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Mark wrote “I just got a new picture phone…”
So too did V, so she just snapped a couple of shots just now, one of me experiencing pain relief in the kitchen (shhh), and one at my work station where I sit and work on my computer. I’ve got newly colored hair, although it ain’t too obvious here- black and purple.
Peace all,
Preston

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fwd: A Picture Share!
Date: July 21, 2004 at 2:42:08 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

It’s You!
LOL!
Everyone looks so intense looking into those wee little digital cameras.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: mcorcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2004 9:38 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Fwd: A Picture Share!

just got a picture phone today and took this sitting in front of my computer
a couple of hours ago… thats me.
its not exactly a good camera so you wouldnt exactly recognize me in the
street but maybe thats not such a bad thing…. just kidding.

Note: forwarded message attached.

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail is new and improved – Check it out!

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine Association methadone protocol (was reduce consumption –
Date: July 21, 2004 at 2:35:20 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

It certainly makes sense to me anyway that something with as long a half
like as Meth would need to take a little more time to let go of you, if you
will.<

This was my main argument when Dana was pushing me to try ibogaine way back
when I too was finishing with methadone.
But now I feel that it doesn’t matter really what I think- it’s better to
simply give it a try and see what happens, to let go and let ibogaine, to
crib an ol’ NA saying.
Peace
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: mcorcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2004 9:24 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine Association methadone protocol (was reduce
consumption –

One of the main reasons I am going to Mexico when I could stay close to home
is
becase I get the feeling they know exactly what there doing and have a lot
of mcorcoran27’s come through there doors before. and like anything there
has to be a trial and error factor when it comes to the actual detox
proceedure and what works best for different drugs. It certainly makes sense
to me anyway that something with as long a half like as Meth would need to
take a little more time to let go of you, if you will. But what do I know
and I guess thats my point. At the same time… Do I remember what it was
like the last time I missed my weeekend? 48 hours without, which is the same
amount of time I’m looking at, yeah it was a fuckin nightmare. was a lot of
the in my head?  why knows… but if that is the case, I can make myself
really fucking sick. What I want to say is that from the few times I’ve
spoken with Randy I have certainly gotten the impession that no one is going
to let me get dead sick and I would assume… hope.! .. that before that
happened something would be done to help me. I think that this approch to
dteox is all about compassion, so with that being said I’m going to assume
that they have done it both ways and this works best… and on 90 mils I’m
gonna go with trail and error and what worked better for and what everytime.

Randy Hencken <randyhencken@hotmail.com> wrote:
Hi Carla,

We are not copying Mash/St. Kitts. We do not detox the clients before
treatment and make them go through withdrawal. Harsh withdrawal symptoms
don’t onset until several days after someone ceases to use methadone. We
manage the minor withdrawal symptoms wit medications. I am sure you know
that as good as ibogaine treatment is for withdrawal it is no walk in the
park. If someone can’t handle the minor discomfort that comes in the first
days of withdrawal, they will be in for a great disappointment after the
ibogaine. IMO the worst part of the first days of withdrawal is the anxiety
about how bad it is going to get on day 3,4,5 etc. Since we medicate our
patients, have them in a comfortable environment and they know that ibogaine
is coming quickly, their anxiety is generally unapparent. You may have
missed several of t! he things I wrote in my last post like: “my recovery
was
slow and more difficult than what we are seeing in our methadone patients
now.” Carla, please reread what I wrote. There is good reason for what we
are doing. We are not simply being sadistic. Have a wonderful day.

Peace,
Randy

From: Carla Barnes
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine Association methadone protocol (was reduce
consumption -iboga zip)
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 21:34:07 -0700 (PDT)

Hi Randy what I wonder about is are you all doing that
just because everybody copies what Mash does and she
decided to detox everyone before giving them ibogaine
or is there some real reason for it? I always thought
one of the greatest things about ibogaine was that you
didn’t have to go through withdrawl before doing it.
Now everybo! dy is being forced into withdrawl
beforehand??? Why? Do you have any scientific reason
for what you all are doing. Patrick I know you never
respond to any of this but come on, were you clean
when you did ibogaine??

Nobody ever knows why Mash does anything, ok sorry
nobody who knows ever explains anything right Patrick?
So now anyone who goes to St. Kitts or Mexico has to
be sick before? Why? I think that’s awful.

Patrick come on you too, you never answer anything
about any of this. Randy has almost 3 years and he
shot speedballs the day before, you have more then 4,
almost 5? Did you taper down? Dave? I would honestly
like to know what relationship there is between all of
this that all the treatment people are deciding the
clients have to go through and people who made it and
have lasted. Using the three of you as a example I’d
have to say none at all.

Carla B

_________________________________________________________________
Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/

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Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail is new and improved – Check it out!

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Bupe and depression
Date: July 21, 2004 at 2:26:28 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

That’s cool Mark,
Give a call tomorrow. I’m glad to read that you are still gung ho and so
excited about getting off the methadone with ibogaine. I am definitely
rootin’ for you as I’m sure most everyone else here is too.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: mcorcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2004 8:32 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Bupe and depression

hello all. I’ve just been overwhelmed with planning the week. Still think
its a lot of meth and I kinda start to shake when I think of getting on the
plane with one bottle, if that.
Its been so surreal that all I’ve been able to think is good things but now
as it gets closer I’m starting to get really nervous again.
Maybe I should ease up on smoking pot, I start to obsess when I’m stoned.
I’m gonna be fine and its not THAT MUCH meth. Ugh. It makes me too tired to
type. I will write or call later later and I’m sorry for not getting back to
you Preston I got stuck on the phone.
I think I have to quit my job tomorrow. I’m so glad I told my family. There
support makes me feel safer.
80 to 90 % of withdrawals gone… I know I can do that.
Sorry for the rant. -M.

CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 7/20/2004 6:30:50 PM Central Daylight Time,
jimhadey3@yahoo.com writes:
Take a look if you want
Opiates for depresn!! That’s the kind of treatment I have been looking for!
lol!
All jokes aside…I have always felt or knew if I could have a supply of
opiates my life would rock! One of the reasons I tried Methadone and it has
been successful.
I really don’t think it is a bad concept! It has worked for me. The problem
is the FDA and all the rules they impose on prescribing physicians!
That was interesting read Jim! Thanks!
Callie

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] FAQ’s – Considering Ibogaine
Date: July 21, 2004 at 2:23:42 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

So intense Callie. Thanks for posting this.
Is anyone gathering all these mug shots together into one library somewhere?

Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2004 8:04 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] FAQ’s – Considering Ibogaine

In a message dated 7/20/2004 6:38:31 PM Central Daylight Time,
stevenanker@hotmail.com writes:
I’m very curious what everyone looks like.

me too! here I am! Not a virus! lol! Any other ‘brave souls’ out there that
will share picture?

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Bupe and depression
Date: July 21, 2004 at 2:15:03 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Opiates for depression!! That’s the kind of treatment I have been looking
for! lol!
All jokes aside…I have always felt or knew if I could have a supply of
opiates my life would rock! <

Weird,
I was just thinking along these lines myself today, that opiates would
be such a great prescription for depression- among some, not all, people. I
figure the best way to go would be to legalize the practice of doctor and
patient actually working out with experimentation exactly what drug(s) if
any at all would do the trick in helping patients be happiest/most
comfortable in their skin. Not everyone would need these drugs, just as many
people nowadays do not need nor do they use drugs, at least, no illegal or
legal “drugs” barring sugar/tv/computer/sex/exercise of course.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2004 7:47 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Bupe and depression

In a message dated 7/20/2004 6:30:50 PM Central Daylight Time,
jimhadey3@yahoo.com writes:
Take a look if you want
Opiates for depression!! That’s the kind of treatment I have been looking
for! lol!
All jokes aside…I have always felt or knew if I could have a supply of
opiates my life would rock! One of the reasons I tried Methadone and it has
been successful.
I really don’t think it is a bad concept! It has worked for me. The problem
is the FDA and all the rules they impose on prescribing physicians!
That was interesting read Jim! Thanks!
Callie

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From: Veronica Nuemann <veranuemann@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Check out MindVox -1996
Date: July 21, 2004 at 12:50:02 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This is very neat thanks! I don’t understand all this
but I like it very much thank you.
veronica

— HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 7/20/04 4:38:06 PM,
Sapphirestardus@aol.com writes:

Hi Callie! I tried logging on to ‘Wayback’ but I
can’t get on. Is is ny
computer or could there be a problem with the
address?

Thanks,

Try going to http://www.archive.org/index.php

You will see a button for the wayback machine.  Just
type in the name
of the
web page, in this case, http://www.mindvox.com and
hit the take me back
button.

Howard

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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fwd: A Picture Share!
Date: July 21, 2004 at 12:32:42 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

yeah, you’re broadcasting a sprint email, but no photo attached.

_.dh

On Tuesday, July 20, 2004, at 05:51 PM, CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 7/20/2004 8:39:18 PM Central Daylight Time, mcorcoran27@yahoo.com writes:

thats me.

I can’t see you! ;( Just a box with a red x in it.
Callie

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Tapering Down + “Detoxing” prior to Ibogaine
Date: July 21, 2004 at 12:28:13 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

what album is that “last shot” on please jon?
Thanks.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2004 3:31 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Tapering Down + “Detoxing” prior to Ibogaine

hey patrick,

as usual, i really enjoyed reading this rant =)

there are couple things i wanted to comment on…

I am not doing ibogaine to get unsprung.  At present I’m experimenting
with concomitant self-administration of ibogaine and a variety of other
psychoactive molecules.  In short, I’m doing bioassays on materials that
appear to have synergy on paper — or independent of one another — and
seeing what the results actually are.

Would you be free to tell us what materials you expect to act
synergistically? and maybe why also, if you have time to go into that =)

These are not Great Secrets; they are questions that I have interest in
answering, for myself primarily.  At some point, the results will be
submitted to an appropriate journal — quite likely with one
co-author —
and published.  While another — slightly different — version(s), will
appear elsewhere.  For some strange reason science journals are highly
non-receptive to ranTing ’bout Godhead.  Go figure.

But you’re going to rant about the experiences on here, right??

Corollary: If the end-result of one of these experiments happens to be
spontaneous decombustion — Whoopsie!  Goddamn stupid fucking vaRiabLes,
and m1sSinG data@#!@# — I cannot presently commit to completing my
writing, post-death.

don’t you dare die now, fukk4r!!

=)

Going into ibogaine II, I actually did the, “This is … the LAST SHOT”
scene.  Which I think everybody who’s sprung, has acted out inside their
head.  It was not significantly different from the last 200 times I
played
it.  Except, it REALLY WAS the last shot.

ok, this is my last comment for now…. this bit reminded me of that lou
reed song, which i imagine at least some of you are familiar with.. but
the lyrics really struck a chord with me (no surprise…ehe) so i thought
i’d post em…

Last Shot by Lou Reed

Last shot sure killed me
pour another drink
Let’s drink to the last shot
and the blood on the dishes in the sink
Blood inside the coffee cup
blood on the table top

But when you quit, you quit, but you always wish
that you knew it was your last shot
When you quit, you quit, but you always wish
that you knew it was your last shot

I shot blood at the fly on the wall
my heart almost stopped hardly there at all
I broke the mirror with my fall, with my –
– Fall-fall-fall
fall-fall-fall

Gimme a double, give yourself one two
gimme a short beer, one for you too
And a toast to everything that doesn’t move
that doesn’t move

But when you quit, you quit, but you always wish
that you knew it was your last shot
When you quit, you quit, but you always wish
that you knew it was your last shot

Whiskey, bourbon, vodka and scotch
I don’t care what it is you’ve got
I just want to know that it’s my last shot
My last shot

I remember when I quit pretty good
see this here, this is where I chipped my tooth
Shot of vein in my neck and I coughed up a Quaalude
On my last shot
my last shot

Here’s a toast to all that’s good
and here’s a toast to hate
And here’s a toast to toasting and I’m not boasting
When I say I’m getting straight
when I say I’m getting straight

But when you quit, you quit, but you always wish
that you knew it was your last shot
When you quit, you quit, but you always wish
that you knew it was your last shot

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fwd: A Picture Share!
Date: July 20, 2004 at 11:51:43 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/20/2004 8:39:18 PM Central Daylight Time, mcorcoran27@yahoo.com writes:
thats me.

I can’t see you! ;( Just a box with a red x in it.
Callie

From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fwd: A Picture Share!
Date: July 20, 2004 at 9:38:58 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

just got a picture phone today and took this sitting in front of my computer a couple of hours ago… thats me.
its not exactly a good camera so you wouldnt exactly recognize me in the street but maybe thats not such a bad thing…. just kidding.

Note: forwarded message attached.

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Yahoo! Mail is new and improved – Check it out!
From: 9174053768@messaging.sprintpcs.com
Subject: A Picture Share!
Date: July 20, 2004 at 8:41:53 PM EDT
To: mcorcoran27 <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>

 

You have received a picture from:
9174053768@messaging.sprintpcs.com
Message:

View     Reply
View Picture MailSM demo
Tell me more about Picture Mail

Send and receive Pictures and Videos through Picture MailSM.
For more information go to www.sprintpcs.com.

© 2004 Sprint. All rights reserved.

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From: “Steven Anker” <stevenanker@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] FAQ’s – Considering Ibogaine
Date: July 20, 2004 at 9:25:56 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks Callie,

It’s cool to put a face with a name and words…

Here’s me at my wedding…

I’m the guy, and that’s my wife.

Steve.

_________________________________________________________________
Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/

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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine Association methadone protocol (was reduce consumption –
Date: July 20, 2004 at 9:24:20 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

One of the main reasons I am going to Mexico when I could stay close to home is
becase I get the feeling they know exactly what there doing and have a lot of mcorcoran27’s come through there doors before. and like anything there has to be a trial and error factor when it comes to the actual detox proceedure and what works best for different drugs. It certainly makes sense to me anyway that something with as long a half like as Meth would need to take a little more time to let go of you, if you will. But what do I know and I guess thats my point. At the same time… Do I remember what it was like the last time I missed my weeekend? 48 hours without, which is the same amount of time I’m looking at, yeah it was a fuckin nightmare. was a lot of the in my head?  why knows… but if that is the case, I can make myself really fucking sick. What I want to say is that from the few times I’ve spoken with Randy I have certainly gotten the impession that no one is going to let me get dead sick and I would assume… hope… that before that happened something would be done to help me. I think that this approch to dteox is all about compassion, so with that being said I’m going to assume that they have done it both ways and this works best… and on 90 mils I’m gonna go with trail and error and what worked better for and what everytime.

Randy Hencken <randyhencken@hotmail.com> wrote:
Hi Carla,

We are not copying Mash/St. Kitts. We do not detox the clients before
treatment and make them go through withdrawal. Harsh withdrawal symptoms
don’t onset until several days after someone ceases to use methadone. We
manage the minor withdrawal symptoms wit medications. I am sure you know
that as good as ibogaine treatment is for withdrawal it is no walk in the
park. If someone can’t handle the minor discomfort that comes in the first
days of withdrawal, they will be in for a great disappointment after the
ibogaine. IMO the worst part of the first days of withdrawal is the anxiety
about how bad it is going to get on day 3,4,5 etc… Since we medicate our
patients, have them in a comfortable environment and they know that ibogaine
is coming quickly, their anxiety is generally unapparent. You may have
missed several of the things I wrote in my last post like: “my recovery was
slow and more difficult than what we are seeing in our methadone patients
now.” Carla, please reread what I wrote. There is good reason for what we
are doing. We are not simply being sadistic. Have a wonderful day.

Peace,
Randy

>From: Carla Barnes
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine Association methadone protocol (was reduce
>consumption -iboga zip)
>Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 21:34:07 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Hi Randy what I wonder about is are you all doing that
>just because everybody copies what Mash does and she
>decided to detox everyone before giving them ibogaine
>or is there some real reason for it? I always thought
>one of the greatest things about ibogaine was that you
>didn’t have to go through withdrawl before doing it.
>Now everybody is being forced into withdrawl
>beforehand??? Why? Do you have any scientific reason
>for what you all are doing. Patrick I know you never
>respond to any of this but come on, were you clean
>when you did ibogaine??
>
>Nobody ever knows why Mash does anything, ok sorry
>nobody who knows ever explains anything right Patrick?
>So now anyone who goes to St. Kitts or Mexico has to
>be sick before? Why? I think that’s awful.
>
>Patrick come on you too, you never answer anything
>about any of this. Randy has almost 3 years and he
>shot speedballs the day before, you have more then 4,
>almost 5? Did you taper down? Dave? I would honestly
>like to know what relationship there is between all of
>this that all the treatment people are deciding the
>clients have to go through and people who made it and
>have lasted. Using the three of you as a example I’d
>have to say none at all.
>
>Carla B

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Check out MindVox -1996
Date: July 20, 2004 at 9:17:04 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/20/04 5:26:40 PM, Sapphirestardus@aol.com writes:

Howard, I’ve got a question about Buprenorphine treatment. In something
I just read, it stated that this treatment, the drug not only does what it’s
intended for but it also provides anti-depressant activity, a sense of
well-being and an innate or rather an endogenous lack of desire to get high?
As
usual, thanks for your time

Julian,

All opiates appear to provide antidepressant activity and certainly a sense
of well being as well.  For what reason the individual user chooses to take
this or many other drugs and how those drugs may effect a lack of desire to get
high is a very individual matter.  Some people do very well with buprenorphine
and others don’t.  Remember, the Beyer company proposed heroin as a
replacement for morphine without any of the problems associated with morphine.  Oh well.

Howard

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re:
Date: July 20, 2004 at 8:35:06 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Julian,

Some people have/ had  a file (mine was 8K) called fish[1].scr.  I don’t know how I got it because yahoo will not let you down load it even if you wanted to, I know because I tried to send it to yahoo folders or whatever thay call it.  You know the message –   you want to scan and download this file.  NEVER download with out a scan.

Do a dir  fish*    and   dir *.scr  in you windows dir –  if you see fish[1].scr  just delete it.  For some strange reason mine disappeared.  I did not have to delete it.  I doubt if you will have any problems.  You might find a fish*.htm or fish*.html  and if you click on it, it will say this is a virus and you can not down load it.  Spend money and Yahoo will let you clean the file, maybe.  How did mine disappear?  Hell, I don’t know maybe because I ran McAfee.

Relax, your OK,

– JIM
Sapphirestardus@aol.com wrote:
Hey! What’s up Jim and Callie? You probably think I’m pretty stupid re: computers and you would be correct. I know very little. Could one of you8 tell me what exactly is going on re: fish,messages she did not send and viruses? I’m so fucking naive about this stuff!

Thanks,
Julian

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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Bupe and depression
Date: July 20, 2004 at 8:32:28 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hello all. I’ve just been overwhelmed with planning the week. Still think its a lot of meth and I kinda start to shake when I think of getting on the plane with one bottle, if that.
Its been so surreal that all I’ve been able to think is good things but now as it gets closer I’m starting to get really nervous again.
Maybe I should ease up on smoking pot, I start to obsess when I’m stoned. I’m gonna be fine and its not THAT MUCH meth. Ugh. It makes me too tired to type. I will write or call later later and I’m sorry for not getting back to you Preston I got stuck on the phone.
I think I have to quit my job tomorrow. I’m so glad I told my family. There support makes me feel safer.
80 to 90 % of withdrawals gone… I know I can do that.
Sorry for the rant. -M.

CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 7/20/2004 6:30:50 PM Central Daylight Time, jimhadey3@yahoo.com writes:
Take a look if you want

Opiates for depresn!! That’s the kind of treatment I have been looking for! lol!
All jokes aside…I have always felt or knew if I could have a supply of opiates my life would rock! One of the reasons I tried Methadone and it has been successful.
I really don’t think it is a bad concept! It has worked for me. The problem is the FDA and all the rules they impose on prescribing physicians!
That was interesting read Jim! Thanks!
Callie

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] FAQ’s – Considering Ibogaine
Date: July 20, 2004 at 8:04:02 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/20/2004 6:38:31 PM Central Daylight Time, stevenanker@hotmail.com writes:
I’m very curious what everyone looks like.

me too! here I am! Not a virus! lol! Any other ‘brave souls’ out there that will share picture?

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Bupe and depression
Date: July 20, 2004 at 7:47:53 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/20/2004 6:30:50 PM Central Daylight Time, jimhadey3@yahoo.com writes:
Take a look if you want

Opiates for depression!! That’s the kind of treatment I have been looking for! lol!
All jokes aside…I have always felt or knew if I could have a supply of opiates my life would rock! One of the reasons I tried Methadone and it has been successful.
I really don’t think it is a bad concept! It has worked for me. The problem is the FDA and all the rules they impose on prescribing physicians!
That was interesting read Jim! Thanks!
Callie

From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] reduce consumption
Date: July 20, 2004 at 7:45:16 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Jon,

We all wish you well.  If you don’t mind another tip, I found Imodium seems to help the shits and seems to relax the stomach.  Also, in the PDR it says that they experimented on some monkeys and it seemed to stop withdrawel systems when used in a higher than normal quanity.  How much is higher than normal, I don’t know.  But I have been using it for years.

Hang in there,

– JIM

jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu> wrote:

> On a slightly different note, I’ve found that tonight is the worst night
> so far withdrawal wise.
> As some of you know I went down last Tuesday 10 whole mils from 100 to 90
> and I had hardly any withdrawal. Then today almost a week later I start
> feeling it tonight!
> I smoke a huge amount of pot and last night I ran out so that might have
> something to do with it because for me (with me meth not dope) if I’m a
> little sick if I smoke a little I feel better. But I’m tryin to save a
> little cash and clear my system out a little and 60 bucks for pot is just
> too much for me with all of the expense I’m looking at in these next
> couple of weeks. I might shoot some dope tonight. No I wont but it was
> therapeutic to write it.
> Okay going for a walk to clear this sick sick head of mine. look forward

Running out of pot could certainly have done it… as benign a drug as pot
usually is, it does often elicit a withdrawal syndrome if someone who
smokes frequently suddenly stops. Pot withdrawal is usually just some
irritability with some minor aches and pains and such, but together with
the reduction in your meth dose, that could very well be the culprit.

If you can’t afford more pot, you might want to head down to a health
food/vitamin store and get some valerian root and/or kava.

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From: “Steven Anker” <stevenanker@hotmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] FAQ’s – Considering Ibogaine
Date: July 20, 2004 at 7:37:36 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Howdy all,

An idea I’ve had simmering around for awhile…

How about a bunch of us putting something together for mind-vox along the lines of “Considering Ibogaine?”

Answer the most frequent questions and give advice for those considering taking ibogaine.  People new to the site could have many of their questions answered. I think it would be good to have a variety of voices. Carla, Randy, Curtis, Patrick, Sara, Dave, Jon, Adam, Nick, Howard etc… all have unique perspectives and it would be cool to have them all in one place. Not to be exclusionary, but this needs to be done by those who have tripped the iboga.

Perhaps getting people correctly prepped could help with the efficacy of ibo.

Patrick, is there anyway you could set something up where people could post bio’s and pictures of themselves? I’m very curious what everyone looks like. Carla, I have strong mental picture of you which I’m sure is wrong. Is this something worth pursueing at all? One big happy family. Just like Manson.

Any interest? Would it be helpful?

Best,

Steve

_________________________________________________________________
Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Bupe and depression
Date: July 20, 2004 at 7:29:41 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Julian,

Here is a link I gave for bupe and depression.  Tried my doc but he knows nothing about it and won’t give it to me.  Can’t say I blame him.

Take a look if you want.   http://balder.prohosting.com/~adhpage/bupe.html

Later,

– JIM

Sapphirestardus@aol.com wrote:
Howard, I’ve got a question about Buprenorphine treatment. In something I just read, it stated that this treatment, the drug not only does what it’s intended for but it also provides anti-depressant activity, a sense of well-being and an innate or rather an endogenous lack of desire to get high?   As usual, thamks for your time
Julian

Do you Yahoo!?
Vote for the stars of Yahoo!’s next ad campaign!

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] to Julian in regard to fish et al
Date: July 20, 2004 at 7:24:42 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Julian! Hope this finds you and your healthy and happy!
A e-mail went out to list, well two e-mails went out to list with my addy as sender. One said predators in the body when opened and had attachment. The other said dangerous fish, I think, I am not sure cause I deleted them right away.
Jim may have opened one of the attachments cause he said he had a fish screen saver file he found but it was not a virus.
That is my understanding! LMAO! I am not puter savvy either but I have gotten pretty good at recognizing virus e-mails. I consider any e-mail with attachment as suspicious and I never open them until I get an affirmation from person who is the sender.
To be on the safe side Julian, do not download or open any attached files you receive unless you are POSITIVE you know what they are!
You are right about my fonts and ink color! Very observant! I used the Lucida fonts and the royal blue font color.
Hope your life is spiffy today.
I have had some upper gastric distress the last couple of days so I am not a very happy girl right now. I hope my clear liquid bland diet will have me back to normal in 24 to 48 hours. Sad thing is though, no matter how bad I feel I still have to carry on my duties here at home! I would LOVE to wake up one morning and be able to say, “I am not doing anything today except bathe, sleep and read.” I am afraid those days are gone!
Well, enough belly aching on my part! Hope I cleared you up a bit on that but I am not really clear on where those e-mail attachments came from myself!
Peace and hugs to ya! Callie

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Julian’s computer was – Re: [ibogaine] Check out MindVox -1996
Date: July 20, 2004 at 6:43:19 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/20/04 5:01:40 PM, Sapphirestardus@aol.com writes:

Howard, thanks for the suggestion but it must be my computer. With both
addresses, it always takes a long time, then results in ‘ACTION CANCELLED’.
I’ll try again later but something is wrong.

It could be your computer.  My cable access crashed this morning and I
reached it using aol.com so it does not appear to be aol.  How much ram do you have
and are you on a mac or window operating system?

Howard

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From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Check out MindVox -1996
Date: July 20, 2004 at 6:25:49 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Howard, I’ve got a question about Buprenorphine treatment. In something I just read, it stated that this treatment, the drug not only does what it’s intended for but it also provides anti-depressant activity, a sense of well-being and an innate or rather an endogenous lack of desire to get high?   As usual, thamks for your time
Julian

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re:
Date: July 20, 2004 at 6:11:17 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Callie, one more thing please. Could you explain to me what you were talking about with Jim re: fish and viruses, et al? I am very naive with computers and didn’t understand what you guys were talking about.
Thanks,
Julian

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Check out MindVox -1996
Date: July 20, 2004 at 6:00:41 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Howard, thanks for the suggestion but it must be my computer. With both addresses, it always takes a long time, then results in ‘ACTION CANCELLED’. I’ll try again later but something is wrong.
Thanks again
Julian

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Check out MindVox -1996
Date: July 20, 2004 at 5:48:55 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/20/04 4:38:06 PM, Sapphirestardus@aol.com writes:

Hi Callie! I tried logging on to ‘Wayback’ but I can’t get on. Is is ny
computer or could there be a problem with the address?
Thanks,

Try going to http://www.archive.org/index.php

You will see a button for the wayback machine.  Just type in the name of the
web page, in this case, http://www.mindvox.com and hit the take me back button.

Howard

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From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] VIRUS
Date: July 20, 2004 at 5:39:13 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Verrrrrrry Eenteresting Qvestion!!!

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Check out MindVox -1996
Date: July 20, 2004 at 5:37:16 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Callie! I tried logging on to ‘Wayback’ but I can’t get on. Is is ny computer or could there be a problem with the address?
Thanks,
Julian

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: [ibogaine] looking for answers.
Date: July 20, 2004 at 5:22:59 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“Byeri were generally consulted after the use of narcotic plant products. “Alan,” also known as “malan,” is the main drug used by initiates into the byeri cult. According to J. Fernandez, “the root of the alan bush is ground up, powdered, dried and consumed while sitting exposed to the morning and midday sun.” Fernandez says the purpose of this drug’s use is to “break open the head (akwia nlo),” so as to connect with the spiritual realms. Alan reputedly has hallucinogenic, stimulating and aphrodisiac properties. Fernandez did an extensive study of drug use among the Fang and related tribes. He documents the use of four types of narcotics that “enter into their cult rituals.” These are “alan” – Alchornea floribunda; “eboka” – Tabernanthe iboga, which has ibogaine as its main alkaloid; “ayan beyem” – Elaeophorbia drupifera; and “beyama” – Cannabis .
Fernandez writes that “the latex of ayan beyem was employed in the ancestral cult among the Fang when the ingestion of malan was slow in showing effect. A parrot’s red tail feather dipped in the mixture was brushed across the eyeballs. The latex appears to affect the optical nerves, producing bizarre visual states.” He also writes that cults in Southern Gabon mix malan with eboka. Fernandez gives a lot of data on the connected bwiti cult which primarily uses the drug eboka. Followed mainly by the interrelated Tsogo or “Mitsogho” tribe of Gabon, according to him this is “a night cult of the female principle of the universe.”

Is there a Malan+eboka  journey report ? or any report on ayan beyem Journey?
What kind of narcotic plans are used in Gabon?
Knowledge is appreciated ,
Sara

From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Tapering Down + “Detoxing” prior to Ibogaine
Date: July 20, 2004 at 4:16:20 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Right on bro, right on! 🙂

I was clean by a long time before I ever did ibo! Makes me want to get
sprung again to try
what patrick described 🙂 J/K. Right on and thanks for the honesty!

Patrick, Howard, Dave all say ibogaine will detox you no matter what.
Mexico wants clients to
cut down or detox, nobody ever knows what Mash is doing.

I think I put my faith in the ibo 🙂

Thanks Jon, Lou Reed is the music of the moment 🙂

Peace out
Curtis

On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 12:31:54 -0700 jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu> wrote:
hey patrick,

as usual, i really enjoyed reading this rant =)

there are couple things i wanted to comment on…

I am not doing ibogaine to get unsprung.  At present I’m experimenting
with concomitant self-administration of ibogaine and a variety
of other
psychoactive molecules.  In short, I’m doing bioassays on materials
that
appear to have synergy on paper — or independent of one another
— and
seeing what the results actually are.

Would you be free to tell us what materials you expect to act
synergistically? and maybe why also, if you have time to go into
that =)

These are not Great Secrets; they are questions that I have interest
in
answering, for myself primarily.  At some point, the results will
be
submitted to an appropriate journal — quite likely with one co-
author —
and published.  While another — slightly different — version(s),

will
appear elsewhere.  For some strange reason science journals are
highly
non-receptive to ranTing ’bout Godhead.  Go figure.

But you’re going to rant about the experiences on here, right??

Corollary: If the end-result of one of these experiments happens
to be
spontaneous decombustion — Whoopsie!  Goddamn stupid fucking
vaRiabLes,
and m1sSinG data@#!@# — I cannot presently commit to completing
my
writing, post-death.

don’t you dare die now, fukk4r!!

=)

Going into ibogaine II, I actually did the, “This is … the LAST
SHOT”
scene.  Which I think everybody who’s sprung, has acted out inside
their
head.  It was not significantly different from the last 200 times
I played
it.  Except, it REALLY WAS the last shot.

ok, this is my last comment for now…. this bit reminded me of
that lou
reed song, which i imagine at least some of you are familiar with..
but
the lyrics really struck a chord with me (no surprise…ehe) so
i thought
i’d post em…

Last Shot by Lou Reed

Last shot sure killed me
pour another drink
Let’s drink to the last shot
and the blood on the dishes in the sink
Blood inside the coffee cup
blood on the table top

But when you quit, you quit, but you always wish
that you knew it was your last shot
When you quit, you quit, but you always wish
that you knew it was your last shot

I shot blood at the fly on the wall
my heart almost stopped hardly there at all
I broke the mirror with my fall, with my –
– Fall-fall-fall
fall-fall-fall

Gimme a double, give yourself one two
gimme a short beer, one for you too
And a toast to everything that doesn’t move
that doesn’t move

But when you quit, you quit, but you always wish
that you knew it was your last shot
When you quit, you quit, but you always wish
that you knew it was your last shot

Whiskey, bourbon, vodka and scotch
I don’t care what it is you’ve got
I just want to know that it’s my last shot
My last shot

I remember when I quit pretty good
see this here, this is where I chipped my tooth
Shot of vein in my neck and I coughed up a Quaalude
On my last shot
my last shot

Here’s a toast to all that’s good
and here’s a toast to hate
And here’s a toast to toasting and I’m not boasting
When I say I’m getting straight
when I say I’m getting straight

But when you quit, you quit, but you always wish
that you knew it was your last shot
When you quit, you quit, but you always wish
that you knew it was your last shot

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From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Ibo and Paxil
Date: July 20, 2004 at 3:37:25 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I may have been on the road and missed it but is there any info on
Ibogaine
and Paxil?.  Randy

I have yet to come across any real research on it, but it would seem
reasonable to me to wait AT LEAST as long as paxil’s half-life (and
preferably LONGER) before dosing with ibogaine.

The reason being that paxil is an SSRI, and ibogaine is a serotonin
agonist. Combining SSRI’s and SE agonists can be very dangerous, even
fatal.

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From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] reduce consumption
Date: July 20, 2004 at 3:34:21 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I haven’t seen enough data to determine if there is a relationship between
success of ibogaine/iboga treatment and dosage of daily opiate
consumption.  By
reduction of dose do you include everything from a 2mg drop or a 5mg drop
in a
person on 100mgs or does the drop have to be significant 50mg or 90mg in a
subject formerly taking 100mg/day?

Hmmm.. I wonder if those data are out there somewhere, waiting to be
analysed..

if they are, i’m going to need a topic for my thesis in a year or so… =)

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From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Tapering Down + “Detoxing” prior to Ibogaine
Date: July 20, 2004 at 3:31:54 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hey patrick,

as usual, i really enjoyed reading this rant =)

there are couple things i wanted to comment on…

I am not doing ibogaine to get unsprung.  At present I’m experimenting
with concomitant self-administration of ibogaine and a variety of other
psychoactive molecules.  In short, I’m doing bioassays on materials that
appear to have synergy on paper — or independent of one another — and
seeing what the results actually are.

Would you be free to tell us what materials you expect to act
synergistically? and maybe why also, if you have time to go into that =)

These are not Great Secrets; they are questions that I have interest in
answering, for myself primarily.  At some point, the results will be
submitted to an appropriate journal — quite likely with one co-author —
and published.  While another — slightly different — version(s), will
appear elsewhere.  For some strange reason science journals are highly
non-receptive to ranTing ’bout Godhead.  Go figure.

But you’re going to rant about the experiences on here, right??

Corollary: If the end-result of one of these experiments happens to be
spontaneous decombustion — Whoopsie!  Goddamn stupid fucking vaRiabLes,
and m1sSinG data@#!@# — I cannot presently commit to completing my
writing, post-death.

don’t you dare die now, fukk4r!!

=)

Going into ibogaine II, I actually did the, “This is … the LAST SHOT”
scene.  Which I think everybody who’s sprung, has acted out inside their
head.  It was not significantly different from the last 200 times I played
it.  Except, it REALLY WAS the last shot.

ok, this is my last comment for now…. this bit reminded me of that lou
reed song, which i imagine at least some of you are familiar with.. but
the lyrics really struck a chord with me (no surprise…ehe) so i thought
i’d post em…

Last Shot by Lou Reed

Last shot sure killed me
pour another drink
Let’s drink to the last shot
and the blood on the dishes in the sink
Blood inside the coffee cup
blood on the table top

But when you quit, you quit, but you always wish
that you knew it was your last shot
When you quit, you quit, but you always wish
that you knew it was your last shot

I shot blood at the fly on the wall
my heart almost stopped hardly there at all
I broke the mirror with my fall, with my –
– Fall-fall-fall
fall-fall-fall

Gimme a double, give yourself one two
gimme a short beer, one for you too
And a toast to everything that doesn’t move
that doesn’t move

But when you quit, you quit, but you always wish
that you knew it was your last shot
When you quit, you quit, but you always wish
that you knew it was your last shot

Whiskey, bourbon, vodka and scotch
I don’t care what it is you’ve got
I just want to know that it’s my last shot
My last shot

I remember when I quit pretty good
see this here, this is where I chipped my tooth
Shot of vein in my neck and I coughed up a Quaalude
On my last shot
my last shot

Here’s a toast to all that’s good
and here’s a toast to hate
And here’s a toast to toasting and I’m not boasting
When I say I’m getting straight
when I say I’m getting straight

But when you quit, you quit, but you always wish
that you knew it was your last shot
When you quit, you quit, but you always wish
that you knew it was your last shot

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From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Tapering Down + “Detoxing” prior to Ibogaine
Date: July 20, 2004 at 3:03:52 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Everything I’m gonna say here represents my own personal opinions and
experience.  I am not suggesting any of it is the “right” thing to do.
And it’s certainly not the advice I give anybody who is planning on
getting dosed with ibogaine.

It just happens to be MY truth, and MY experience.  Your milage may vary.

– – – – – – – – –

On [Mon, Jul 19, 2004 at 11:58:15PM -0700], [gboy@hush.com] wrote:

| That’s been a joke for so long, go to st.
| kitts and pay to be sick. so now go to
| anywhere and pay to be sick? great plan.
| Patrick say something dog, none of this
| has anything to do with how you cleaned
| up and you know it.

To begin with, I don’t recall having ever given anybody this particular
piece of input.  If you have seen or heard something where I make this
statement; then please show me where I say individuals who are about to
undergo ibogaine treatment for drug-dependence should be 24-72 hours clear
of all narcotic analgesics…  It doesn’t exist, because I’ve never said
it.

– – – – – – – – –

On [Mon, Jul 19, 2004 at 11:58:15PM -0700], [gboy@hush.com] wrote:

| dog this is funny. patrick much respect but I’d
| like to hear this one from you too. From the
| outside it looks like most of the people giving
| all this advice didn’t take any of it when they
| cleaned up. Where have you done ibo the last
| 15 times you’ve dosed?

I am unclear what this has to do with the discussion taking place.  I have
dosed with ibogaine HCl twice for the purpose of detoxing.  Both instances
took place at St. Kitts.  The last was on Halloween of 1999.  I have used
no narcotic analgesics since that date; which would make it difficult to
become dependent on them.

It’s unacceptable that anybody but myself decides upon the set, setting,
and dosage level.  I’m not going to derive any particular benefit from
taking medical advice from individuals who know less about the
pharmacokinetics of ibogaine HCl than I do.  I’m very familiar with how my
body responds to dose escalation up to a 22mg/kg threshold.

I am not doing ibogaine to get unsprung.  At present I’m experimenting
with concomitant self-administration of ibogaine and a variety of other
psychoactive molecules.  In short, I’m doing bioassays on materials that
appear to have synergy on paper — or independent of one another — and
seeing what the results actually are.

These are not Great Secrets; they are questions that I have interest in
answering, for myself primarily.  At some point, the results will be
submitted to an appropriate journal — quite likely with one co-author —
and published.  While another — slightly different — version(s), will
appear elsewhere.  For some strange reason science journals are highly
non-receptive to ranTing ’bout Godhead.  Go figure.

Corollary: If the end-result of one of these experiments happens to be
spontaneous decombustion — Whoopsie!  Goddamn stupid fucking vaRiabLes,
and m1sSinG data@#!@# — I cannot presently commit to completing my
writing, post-death.

– – – – – – – – –

| On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 21:34:07 -0700 Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
| wrote:
| >Hi Randy what I wonder about is are you all doing that
| >just because everybody copies what Mash does and she
| >decided to detox everyone before giving them ibogaine
| >or is there some real reason for it? I always thought
| >one of the greatest things about ibogaine was that you
| >didn’t have to go through withdrawl before doing it.
| >Now everybody is being forced into withdrawl
| >beforehand??? Why? Do you have any scientific reason
| >for what you all are doing. Patrick I know you never
| >respond to any of this but come on, were you clean
| >when you did ibogaine??
| >
| >Nobody ever knows why Mash does anything, ok sorry
| >nobody who knows ever explains anything right Patrick?
| >So now anyone who goes to St. Kitts or Mexico has to
| >be sick before? Why? I think that’s awful.

Language is control, and the successful application of knowledge is power.
However … the only “power” anybody has over you, is that which you
choose to give them.  There isn’t anyone holding a gun to your head and
forcing you to do anything.  Nothing prevents you from obtaining ibogaine
in the same manner that every treatment provider does, and doing whatever
the hell you want with it.  There isn’t some special Worldwide Ibogaine
Dispensing Authority, which will refuse to sell it to you.

“THEY are RUINING MY LIFE and forcing me to go through withDrAwaL!!@#!!”
No, “they” are not doing anything except deciding upon which protocol is
most suitable for their treatment center, at any given point in time.
This process tends to be dynamic, and adjusts to new data/information as
it becomes available (one would hope).  YOU are the one signing yourself
into treatment, and making the — presumably — informed decision to hand
’em control.

It is relatively easy to come up with anecdotal evidence which strongly
supports, whatever the hell it is that you feel like doing.  <Shrug>

All that being said, if you’re sprung and living in active addiction;
self-dosing is probably a somewhat sub-optimal idea.  To cut through the
bullshit: FOR MOST PEOPLE it’s a pretty stupid idea.  But, then, on the
flipside of all that, it’s not like smoking crack or bangin’ up bundles of
shit you cop on the street corner, is dramatically better or safer.

All of it fails the sanity check.  Whatever that means exactly.  <Shrug>
Everything is relative.  If you want third-party input, tell pretty much
anybody you know, “I’m gonna travel to another country to do a schedule I
drug, where I tr!p oUT and am freEd frum my addikShun 2 dangeroUS drugZ
that are killing me, by doing this hallucinogen that comes from
Africa!@#!!!”  The answer you get will prolly be, “Uh huh, well, that’s
very special!  Good luck with all that!”

– – – – – – – – –

On [Mon, Jul 19, 2004 at 11:58:15PM -0700], [gboy@hush.com] wrote:

| That’s been a joke for so long, go to st.
| kitts and pay to be sick. so now go to
| anywhere and pay to be sick? great plan.
| Patrick say something dog, none of this
| has anything to do with how you cleaned
| up and you know it.

I detoxed in the stone ages.  It is highly unlikely that any treatment
provider at the present time would accept me into their program, in the
state I was in.  There is nobody involved with St. Kitts in the here and
now, who was around back then, ‘cept for Deborah herself, and some people
on the island who live there all the time.

I missed a flight from NYC to Miami -> San Juan -> St. Kitts.  I arrived
roughly 18 hours later than expected.  And landed in full-blown withdrawal
offa 200mg a day methadone + 2 grams heroin on top of that.  I was also
addicted to benzos (12mg of Xanax, +/- a few sticks a day).

They could not catch my fall.  At that point in time, nobody there had
ever seen anyone who was that strung-out.  “You’re already getting enough
morphine to kill 15 people.”  Yeah, but … the problem might be, that I
need enough to kill 25 people without tolerance, before I get straight.
You just watched me down all of it, my eyes are not pinned, no miosis is
present, I’m not nodding out … I am still sick as fuck.  All the
objective signs of severe opiate withdrawal are present…  So, like,
gimme more drugZ.

End result was: I was doing methadone, morphine, and benzos.  And not
sleeping, ‘cuz nobody could find any chloral hydrate.

Prior to ibogaine I, I had a little over 18 hours clear off methadone, and
less than 10 off morphine.  I was sick as fuck going in.

– – – – – – – – –

| On Monday, July 19, 2004, at 11:42 PM, paul maclennan wrote:
|
| >Hi – i’m interested to follow this thread re: reducing dose prior to
| >ibo – when I wrote asking about this a few months back – the very
| >strong response from all who replied was that I should NOT UNDER ANY
| >CIRCUMSTANCES take ibo without drastically reducing my habit
| >(methodone), to something like 5-10 mg – which is a long way from
| >where i’m at now…So, in the light of recent posts, can we get some
| >general cosensus (hows about a vote) from those people who actually
| >know what they are talking about and have some basis for their view,
| >on whether it is ok to go from straight from a daily meth dose of @
| >100 mg to an ibo dose??

The shit with tapering down … it’s a headtrip, like anything else.  If
you think it’ll do something positive for you, well, then it very well
might.  Objectively speaking it doesn’t make a lot of difference.

Prior to ibogaine I, the chick I was with wuz very busy driving me
crazier, “You’ve GOT TO stop shooting up!!!  You’re never gonna stop
getting high!  Just stick with methadone and stop doing so much heroin on
top of it!!!”

Which amounted to, yeah, okay, thanks, so, now I’m back to bangin’ up in
the bathroom and “hiding” it.

If anything my drug intake escalated prior to doing ibogaine.

This is not uncommon.

– – – – – – – – –

Going into ibogaine II, I actually did the, “This is … the LAST SHOT”
scene.  Which I think everybody who’s sprung, has acted out inside their
head.  It was not significantly different from the last 200 times I played
it.  Except, it REALLY WAS the last shot.

And, it fucking rocked.  I was no longer annihilated when I actually went
under, but I wuz still comfortably numb.

So … the 201st time I played out the Last Shot sequence … it worked
out for me.  Go figure.

– – – – – – – – –

| >Patrick come on you too, you never answer anything
| >about any of this. Randy has almost 3 years and he
| >shot speedballs the day before, you have more then 4,
| >almost 5? Did you taper down? Dave? I would honestly
| >like to know what relationship there is between all of
| >this that all the treatment people are deciding the
| >clients have to go through and people who made it and
| >have lasted. Using the three of you as a example I’d
| >have to say none at all.
| >
| >Carla B
| >

What does it all mean…?  It’s very hard to honestly answer that.  You
can apply spin control and massage statistics in any direction you want.
But when all is said and done, there are a growing number of people who
were hardcore dopefiends; lived their lives in the, “not a hope in hell”
category, who should not have made it … but did.  And there are a whole
lotta individuals who did all the “right” things … and haven’t made it.

When you sift through all of it, and look for what’s truth.  It is, all
over the fucking map.  Period.

Is it a good idea to try and taper down prior to doing ibogaine: sure.  Is
it really going to make some tremendous difference in the final outcome if
you don’t want to/can’t … Nope.

All of this may be important if the concept is to prove efficacy of
single-dose administration.  Or you don’t have the opportunity to do
ibogaine again.  But … it’d probably be a lot more effective to just get
hit with a booster, two, possibly three times in a row after the initial
dose; if you’re that strung-out.

– – – – – – – – –

On [Tue, Jul 20, 2004 at 08:25:41AM -1000], [D H] wrote:

| I can only speak from experience, my own.
|
| in summary, the WoNdEr of ibogaine is that it can be used seamlessly to
| interrupt opiate addiction/withdrawal. That is the Beauty of it.
|
| No Need to suffer! That is like, the whole fucking point of Ibogaine
| (plus all the esoteric/spiritual fringe benefits).

Do0d, mahn, dog, brother, yo!

One of the single, most important events in my life, which served to
anchor all of this for me.  And gave me belief.  Was the exact opposite of
what a lotta people talk about, when they plan to do ibogaine.  People
fill their heads with what other individuals have to say; or take it as a
spiritual journey and want to be clean or get purified prior to going in
… I, did not give a fuck.

When I dosed the first time it was the tail-end of 16 years of dancing;
and ’bout 10 heavily sprung.  I had no faith, no belief, no reverence,
awe, self-respect, or hope.  All I had was desperation, and absolute
failure at ever other treatment modality in existence.

I had gone from having more than enough of everything in dot.bomb, to
bangin’ it all up, and setting fire to my entire life.  I was living on
the streets, couch-surfing shooting galleries and occasionally landing in
a hotel when I managed to scam enough cash to make that scenario happen.

I hit a very low bottom.

I went into ibogaine totally sprung, and sick as fuck.

And those moments…  30-45 minutes in.  When all of this was simply
lifted off me, and Godzilla faded out like a mirage.  Filled me with
absolute belief, faith, and hope.

There is a God, because what just happened is impossible.  This is a
fuckin’ miracle.  This cannot be happening.  But, it is…

I wouldn’t trade that for anything.  Because all experience is sacred.
And I will never have that one again.  Even if, in some far-off future, I
decide to do stupid shit and get re-sprung.  It’s highly unlikely I will
ever wait 16 years before hitting a reset on myself.

I love collecting experience.  And that, was one of the most unique
moments within time, I have ever had.

Faith, strength, hope … and, if at first you don’t succeed.  Just keep
getting back up.

Patrick

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From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] reduce consumption
Date: July 20, 2004 at 3:10:40 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On a slightly different note, I’ve found that tonight is the worst night
so far withdrawal wise.
As some of you know I went down last Tuesday 10 whole mils from 100 to 90
and I had hardly any withdrawal. Then today almost a week later I start
feeling it tonight!
I smoke a huge amount of pot and last night I ran out so that might have
something to do with it because for me (with me meth not dope) if I’m a
little sick if I smoke a little I feel better. But I’m tryin to save a
little cash and clear my system out a little and 60 bucks for pot is just
too much for me with all of the expense I’m looking at in these next
couple of weeks. I might shoot some dope tonight. No I wont but it was
therapeutic to write it.
Okay going for a walk to clear this sick sick head of mine. look forward

Running out of pot could certainly have done it… as benign a drug as pot
usually is, it does often elicit a withdrawal syndrome if someone who
smokes frequently suddenly stops. Pot withdrawal is usually just some
irritability with some minor aches and pains and such, but together with
the reduction in your meth dose, that could very well be the culprit.

If you can’t afford more pot, you might want to head down to a health
food/vitamin store and get some valerian root and/or kava.

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From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Voting for Kerry?
Date: July 20, 2004 at 3:05:14 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

As far as I see it, pretty much the only difference between Bush and Kerry
is that Kerry attempts to maintain the illusion that he’s not completely
evil, while Bush does nothing to try to hide it..

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From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] a little personal gloating… =)
Date: July 20, 2004 at 3:01:37 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

IN a totally platonic, non-gay sort of way Jon, I think I love you.
I guess same goes for a lot of you here, but the above just reads so
nicely,
no?
;-)))

ehehe… thanx very much

it’s very encouraging to hear people like you say things like that =)

jon

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] VIRUS
Date: July 20, 2004 at 2:43:18 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/20/2004 12:58:11 PM Central Daylight Time, pacopaco44@yahoo.com writes:
then who

Who knows! That is how virus spread themselves. They get in your address book and send themselves to your family and friends disguised as you! Sneaky little boogers, huh?

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] 10mg taper? [was: reduce consumption -iboga zip]
Date: July 20, 2004 at 2:25:41 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Paul,

I can only speak from experience, my own.

I did NOT taper down to only 5-10mgs. I was at maintained at 80mgs for almost 4 years and I had begun to taper down before I had any Ibogaine treatment arrangements. I got down as low as 18mgs, and got cold feet and went back up to 35mgs. I had tapered back down to 20mgs by the time my ibo treatment was confirmed/scheduled. (I was going to taper off all the way if the ibo plans fell thru). Because of circumstances that no longer matter, I went back up to 40mgs the week prior to the Ibo.

In February 1998 I took my last 40mg dose of methadone and 24 hours later I took the ibogaine.

I suffered very slight withdrawal (cramping legs, restlessness), even tho I could only keep 1/2 of the ibo dose down. I was sleeping 4-5 hours a night in that first week. I did feel like death warmed over, I was physically in pretty poor shape. I hadn’t exercised in 4 years, my diet consisted of hagendaz ice cream, twix bars and greasy to-go food. A week later I took a supplemental dose that completely catapulted me into a very very good experience and head space. My whole perspective changed. I started to recover physically.

10,000 miles away from my clinic, in a foreign country with barely any money, I flushed the remainder of my methadone down the toilet (a good 2.5 week supply). That just doesn’t “happen” spontaneously.

Did I stay clean since then?

I used heroin 2X post Ibo, both within the first 4 months. The first time was fucking excellent, reset receptors, euphoric nod, drifting dream state, the whole nine yards. The second time was horrible, I almost died, it thoroughly kicked my ass and sent me running back to my abandoned “AFTERCARE PLANS” -hint hint.

I haven’t shot, snorted or smoked any heroin (or cocaine or any other narcotics for that matter) since.

I have, upon occasion, had to take pain medications over the last few years for chronic pain and over a year ago I took a small dose of Ibo to interrupt an Oxycontin dependance.

in summary, the WoNdEr of ibogaine is that it can be used seamlessly to interrupt opiate addiction/withdrawal. That is the Beauty of it.

No Need to suffer! That is like, the whole fucking point of Ibogaine (plus all the esoteric/spiritual fringe benefits).

Peace,
_.dh

On Monday, July 19, 2004, at 11:42 PM, paul maclennan wrote:

Hi – i’m interested to follow this thread re: reducing dose prior to ibo – when I wrote asking about this a few months back – the very strong response from all who replied was that I should NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES take ibo without drastically reducing my habit (methodone), to something like 5-10 mg – which is a long way from where i’m at now…So, in the light of recent posts, can we get some general cosensus (hows about a vote) from those people who actually know what they are talking about and have some basis for their view, on whether it is ok to go from straight from a daily meth dose of @ 100 mg to an ibo dose??

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From: Reynaldo Gonzalez <pacopaco44@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] VIRUS
Date: July 20, 2004 at 1:57:17 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

then who

Sapphirestardus@aol.com wrote:
Callie didn’t send those messages. She always and I mean ALWAYS writes her letters in large, blue print style!

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – 50x more storage than other providers!

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: Ibo and Paxil
Date: July 20, 2004 at 12:44:08 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I may have been on the road and missed it but is there any info on Ibogaine and Paxil?.  Randy

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] reduce consumption -iboga zip
Date: July 20, 2004 at 12:29:00 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/20/04 4:36:44 AM, leisure1@xtra.co.nz writes:

Hi – i’m interested to follow this thread re: reducing dose prior to ibo
– when I wrote asking about this a few months back – the very strong
response from all who replied was that I should NOT UNDER ANY
CIRCUMSTANCES take ibo without drastically reducing my habit
(methodone), to something like 5-10 mg – which is a long way from where
i’m at now…So, in the light of recent posts, can we get some general
cosensus (hows about a vote) from those people who actually know what
they are talking about and have some basis for their view, on whether it
is ok to go from straight from a daily meth dose of @ 100 mg to an ibo
dose??

That you have to reduce your methadone to 5-10mg a day for ibogaine therapy
to be effective is simply not true.  Would it benefit you?  Of course.
Anything you do to put the odds on your side benefit you.  You can wait for a
response from persons who are currently providing ibogaine therapy but, I know of no
provider indicating methadone patients are required to be on 10mg of
methadone.  The patient who indicated he was going to be treated at the Ibogaine
Association stated he was currently on 90mg/day of methadone.

Howard

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Check out MindVox -1996
Date: July 20, 2004 at 12:13:47 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

MindVox – Welcome!

Got a wayback machine internet archive link and punched in Mindvox 1996 and here is what popped up! Hope you all enjoy it as much as I did!
Callie

BTW…here is the link for the wayback machine……..
http://www.archive.org/web/web.php

From: Bill Ross <ross@cgl.ucsf.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] bwiti trip report
Date: July 20, 2004 at 12:02:01 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Bill, I am curious. How did you almost die?

It wasn’t my story, just a quote from the account of Tom LeBlanc, which
I have only skimmed so far.

http://www.ewatravel.com/bwiti_revisited.htm

Bill

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From: <gboy@hush.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine Association methadone protocol (was reduce consumption -iboga zip)
Date: July 20, 2004 at 2:58:15 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Resent-From: Patrick K. Kroupa <digital@phantom.com>
Resent-To: Patrick Karel Kroupa <digital@phantom.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

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dog this is funny. patrick much respect but I’d
like to hear this one from you too. From the
outside it looks like most of the people giving
all this advice didn’t take any of it when they
cleaned up. Where have you done ibo the last
15 times you’ve dosed? Your not letting anyone
decide what you can or cant do dog. All this
reads like peeps power tripping and that is
all.

ibogaine.mindvox.com is sweet. There I said
something nice.

dog for real, mad respect but all this sounds
like peeps jacking off and making others do
what they never had to, nothing more. I would
love to hear that scientific reason behind
all of it. If its anything like the science
behind the ibo study in maps its about as
scientific as high times, bullshit. Mash did
it because she wanted to then everybody
follows that because they don’t know what
they’re doing and she must be right.

That’s been a joke for so long, go to st.
kitts and pay to be sick. so now go to
anywhere and pay to be sick? great plan.
Patrick say something dog, none of this
has anything to do with how you cleaned
up and you know it.

.g

On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 21:34:07 -0700 Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Hi Randy what I wonder about is are you all doing that
just because everybody copies what Mash does and she
decided to detox everyone before giving them ibogaine
or is there some real reason for it? I always thought
one of the greatest things about ibogaine was that you
didn’t have to go through withdrawl before doing it.
Now everybody is being forced into withdrawl
beforehand??? Why? Do you have any scientific reason
for what you all are doing. Patrick I know you never
respond to any of this but come on, were you clean
when you did ibogaine??

Nobody ever knows why Mash does anything, ok sorry
nobody who knows ever explains anything right Patrick?
So now anyone who goes to St. Kitts or Mexico has to
be sick before? Why? I think that’s awful.

Patrick come on you too, you never answer anything
about any of this. Randy has almost 3 years and he
shot speedballs the day before, you have more then 4,
almost 5? Did you taper down? Dave? I would honestly
like to know what relationship there is between all of
this that all the treatment people are deciding the
clients have to go through and people who made it and
have lasted. Using the three of you as a example I’d
have to say none at all.

Carla B

— Randy Hencken <randyhencken@hotmail.com> wrote:
Dave et all,

Our methadone patients take their last methadone on
Monday morning.  on
Tuesday and Wednesday we give them other medications
(benzos clonopine etc.)
to keep them comfortable and then they are ready for
their dose on Thursday
morning so it is only to days off methadone, not
three.  We have found that
this has worked best in patient?s recovery.  Two
days off of methadone is
not as bad as you are imagining.  We have been using
this design for quite a
while now.  When patients are away from their normal
activity and relaxing
at our treatment center, you would be surprised as
to how little withdrawal
symptoms they exhibit under these circumstances.
Three years ago (yes that
rights, I am now three years off dope this month)
when I took ibogaine after
doing methadone and speedballs all day the day
before, my recovery was slow
and more difficult than what we are seeing in our
methadone patients now.
Our top priorities at the IA are patient comfort and
safety. We have no
desire to see anyone of our patients go through
unneeded suffering.

Also FYI, we are now doing medical tests on site as
part of the treatment.
Patients over 40 will need medical test before
coming and will be retested
at our treatment center.

Peace,
Randy

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] reduce consumption -iboga
zip
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 13:14:22 -1000

Just in case anyone saw it. As if you’d rob
someone and then make then
smoke crack. And who smokes crack like that.

LOL, I couldn’t imagine sparing any crack, to
anyone.

But seriously… waiting a DAY before dosing is one
thing, you should be
fine.  But waiting 3 DAYs… (thats Tuesday,
Wednesday, Thursday) thats a
bit much.

Randy? Your thoughts on this matter?

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Vote for the stars of Yahoo!’s next ad campaign!
http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/yahoo/votelifeengine/

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] reduce consumption
Date: July 20, 2004 at 11:30:06 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/20/2004 12:47:57 AM Central Daylight Time, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:
which were only drunk about
2 years ago in a fit of desperation- after sitting chilling in the fridge
for almost 2 years before that

good thing I am not a neighbor cause there is no way they would’ve stayed untouched in that fridge! shameful, huh? but honest!
Callie

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] bwiti trip report
Date: July 20, 2004 at 11:26:06 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ross, thanks for sharing your Iboga trip. I have a question though….what makes you think you almost died?
I can’t even imagine the experience, the surroundings and ‘tripping’ with a bunch of old Bwiti men!
For sure a once in a lifetime experience!
Peace,  Callie

From: “Brad Fisher” <brad.fisher@guaranty.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Ibogaine Association methadone protocol (was reduce consumption –
Date: July 20, 2004 at 11:23:07 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I appreciated your last posting/response. I have read so much from so many
“well-meaning” people it is difficult to decifer,  real information from
imagined information, for me. I suspect your patients are in good hands.
bf

—–Original Message—–
From: Randy Hencken [mailto:randyhencken@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2004 7:59 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine Association methadone protocol (was
reduce consumption –

Hi Carla,

We are not copying Mash/St. Kitts.  We do not detox the clients before
treatment and make them go through withdrawal.  Harsh withdrawal symptoms
don’t onset until several days after someone ceases to use methadone.  We
manage the minor withdrawal symptoms with medications.  I am sure you know
that as good as ibogaine treatment is for withdrawal it is no walk in the
park.  If someone can’t handle the minor discomfort that comes in the first
days of withdrawal, they will be in for a great disappointment after the
ibogaine.  IMO the worst part of the first days of withdrawal is the anxiety
about how bad it is going to get on day 3,4,5 etc… Since we medicate our
patients, have them in a comfortable environment and they know that ibogaine
is coming quickly, their anxiety is generally unapparent.  You may have
missed several of the things I wrote in my last post like: “my recovery was
slow and more difficult than what we are seeing in our methadone patients
now.”  Carla, please reread what I wrote.  There is good reason for what we
are doing.  We are not simply being sadistic.  Have a wonderful day.

Peace,
Randy

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine Association methadone protocol (was reduce
consumption -iboga zip)
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 21:34:07 -0700 (PDT)

Hi Randy what I wonder about is are you all doing that
just because everybody copies what Mash does and she
decided to detox everyone before giving them ibogaine
or is there some real reason for it? I always thought
one of the greatest things about ibogaine was that you
didn’t have to go through withdrawl before doing it.
Now everybody is being forced into withdrawl
beforehand??? Why? Do you have any scientific reason
for what you all are doing. Patrick I know you never
respond to any of this but come on, were you clean
when you did ibogaine??

Nobody ever knows why Mash does anything, ok sorry
nobody who knows ever explains anything right Patrick?
So now anyone who goes to St. Kitts or Mexico has to
be sick before? Why? I think that’s awful.

Patrick come on you too, you never answer anything
about any of this. Randy has almost 3 years and he
shot speedballs the day before, you have more then 4,
almost 5? Did you taper down? Dave? I would honestly
like to know what relationship there is between all of
this that all the treatment people are deciding the
clients have to go through and people who made it and
have lasted. Using the three of you as a example I’d
have to say none at all.

Carla B

_________________________________________________________________
Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/

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From: “Randy Hencken” <randyhencken@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine Association methadone protocol (was reduce consumption –
Date: July 20, 2004 at 10:58:59 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Carla,

We are not copying Mash/St. Kitts.  We do not detox the clients before treatment and make them go through withdrawal.  Harsh withdrawal symptoms don’t onset until several days after someone ceases to use methadone.  We manage the minor withdrawal symptoms with medications.  I am sure you know that as good as ibogaine treatment is for withdrawal it is no walk in the park.  If someone can’t handle the minor discomfort that comes in the first days of withdrawal, they will be in for a great disappointment after the ibogaine.  IMO the worst part of the first days of withdrawal is the anxiety about how bad it is going to get on day 3,4,5 etc
Since we medicate our patients, have them in a comfortable environment and they know that ibogaine is coming quickly, their anxiety is generally unapparent.  You may have missed several of the things I wrote in my last post like: “my recovery was slow and more difficult than what we are seeing in our methadone patients now.”  Carla, please reread what I wrote.  There is good reason for what we are doing.  We are not simply being sadistic.  Have a wonderful day.

Peace,
Randy

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine Association methadone protocol (was reduce consumption -iboga zip)
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 21:34:07 -0700 (PDT)

Hi Randy what I wonder about is are you all doing that
just because everybody copies what Mash does and she
decided to detox everyone before giving them ibogaine
or is there some real reason for it? I always thought
one of the greatest things about ibogaine was that you
didn’t have to go through withdrawl before doing it.
Now everybody is being forced into withdrawl
beforehand??? Why? Do you have any scientific reason
for what you all are doing. Patrick I know you never
respond to any of this but come on, were you clean
when you did ibogaine??

Nobody ever knows why Mash does anything, ok sorry
nobody who knows ever explains anything right Patrick?
So now anyone who goes to St. Kitts or Mexico has to
be sick before? Why? I think that’s awful.

Patrick come on you too, you never answer anything
about any of this. Randy has almost 3 years and he
shot speedballs the day before, you have more then 4,
almost 5? Did you taper down? Dave? I would honestly
like to know what relationship there is between all of
this that all the treatment people are deciding the
clients have to go through and people who made it and
have lasted. Using the three of you as a example I’d
have to say none at all.

Carla B

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From: paul maclennan <leisure1@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] reduce consumption -iboga zip
Date: July 20, 2004 at 5:42:57 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

mcorcoran wrote:

I’m 175lbs just in case anyone misunderstood.

*/mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>/* wrote:

Monday will be my last dose of meth and then Thursday my dose of
Ibogaine. I will appreciate all of the goods thoughts and candles,
and thanks so much for that. I know that two full days without any
meth is going to be a bitch and being on 90 mils its gonna hurt
like hell.  Its a long time in between, the longest I’ve ever
gone.  But I know in my heart of hearts that it can’t be a walk in
the park. After 10 years of putting shit into my body, prescribed
or otherwise, I can’t expect to go though this without any
discomfort. Avoiding any slightest bit of discomfort has me where
I am today to begin with. But I drank my meth this morning so its
a little easier to talk this way now and be this brave and I know
that I have been known to sing a different tune when I am sick.
Whatever, the bottom line is I’m ready. I’m so ready to be free
from this. Being free from the physical addiction just as much as
being free from the backwards thinking. I am looking forward to
getting to know myself in a new and deeper way. Not to mention I
have to believe if I can do this successfully I can do anything.
Now as for the throwing it up. I am not a fan of putting anything
in my ass although when I was 16 I tried MDMA that way and it was
even more intense than shooting it. I digress. So I guess what I’m
getting at is if the Ibogaine has the ability to exacerbate nausea
and vomiting and its very likely that I’m going to be nauseous and
vomiting to begin with, maybe its not the worst idea to do it as a
suppository? Would that lessen the propensity to vomit? Also how
many HCL pills will I be taking? I’m 175 and I’m kicking a pretty
big dose. My reason for asking is that if I had to put one or two
pills in my ass to avoid “throwing up my mothers milk” it might be
worth it. But if its 10 pills then thats something that might not
be as appealing.
Looking forward to hearing back from anyone who has been through a
similar experience.
Thanks and again all the good thoughts and candles are
tremendously appreciated.
M.

*/Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>/* wrote:

>I started to wake up soaked with sweat in the
morning,freezing cold, and
I’m dead sick For all the males out there, I’m experiencing
the tell tale
sign which are those nasty wet dreams that you don’t remember
but you wake
up all sticky, please tell me I’m not the only one!<

Ugh! I hate those “dreams” as they are so rarely involving
actual sex- too
often they involve either my hitting the crack stem (and I’ve
not smoked
crack for nearly a decade now) or shooting up, or talking to
someone, or
walking down the street. Almost never do they involve sex, as
noted, which
always leaves me feeling weird, and sticky.

>As I woke up this morning it was more evident that ever that
by Tuesday
afternoon I’m going to be a disaster, so I can only imagine
how much of a
mess I’m gonna be by Thursday morning. So my question is if
I’m already dead
sick unable to control any of my body functions, which is
quite possible,
and more likely that not, will I have a harder time keeping
down the ibo and
will I be more predisposed to vomiting when they give me the ibo?<

Jesus christ, you’ve got major guts Mark. I am wishing and
hoping the very
best for you, as I and I imagine so many others here can
totally relate to
how you’re feeling now.

>And they do say they’ll give me other drugs to “keep me
comfortable” but a
shot of dope wouldn’t have straightened me out this morning so
I doubt a
Valium or two will do much of anything.<

Have they told you what other drugs they’ll give you to help
your comfort
levels? Why are they making you wait til Thursday if you’re
getting there on
Monday? Have they explasined this to you yet? I’d love to hear
the reason
for this.

>Ahhh! Maybe a little pain is good and will keep the
experience fresh for me
but if this morning was just a taste of whats to come I’m in
for some real
hurtin.<

If it helps at all, remember that I at least will be thinking
long good
thoughts in your direction until we next hear from you.
Peace, and best wishes,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: mcorcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 10:28 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] reduce consumption

Hey all. Counting the days for real now. This morning was the
last Monday I
will ever be at my program. Very Liberating but a bit scary. I
dropped down
10 from 100 to 90 last week and I am REALLY feeling the
difference. And the
proof that its not in my head is that I’m not noticing a huge
difference in
the day time but at night and the next morning its obvious.
For example, a
couple of days after my last drop, which was 5 days ago, I
started to wake
up soaked with sweat in the morning,freezing cold, and I’m
dead sick For
all the males out there, I’m experiencing the tell tale sign
which are those
nasty wet dreams that you don’t remember but you wake up all
sticky, please
tell me I’m not the only one!
Anyway heres my question. The treatment center that I am going
to is one
week long where I will drink my last dose of meth next Monday
morning and
then I don’t take the Ibogaine till Thursday morning. As I
woke up this
morning it was more evident that ever that by Tuesday
afternoon I’m going to
be a disaster, so I can only imagine how much of a mess I’m
gonna be by
Thursday morning. So my question is if I’m already dead sick
unable to
control any of my body functions, which is quite possible, and
more likely
that not, will I have a harder time keeping down the ibo and
will I be more
predisposed to vomiting when they give me the ibo?
As anyone knows who reads my posts I’m willing to go through
whatever it
takes. If they tell me to stand on my head for the first two
or three days
before thats what I’m going to do. Or if they told me that
they couldn’t
give me the Ibo for one reason or another after I got down
there I would
obvious freak out but this means so much to me that I’d prob
ably find a
good strong tree somewhere in Mexico and tie myself to it
until I felt
better. Basically for me, failure is not an option. Walking
back through
those doors to my program after Friday is simply not something
I will allow
myself to do under any circumstances and coming back to NY
before I’m
totally free from drugs is not an option either. Maybe I don’t
have a
specific question but any feedback would be greatly
appreciated. I just was
very concerned when I woke up this morning and now one hour
after drinking
my meth I’m feeling a bit better and I know I’ll be fine in a
half hou! r or
so but if I’m this sick after I wake up in the morning on as
high a dose as
this when I go three days without before the ibo I just know I
will be a
disaster and THAT scares me to death. It makes complete sense
why they do it
that way ( they need to give me a little time for the
receptors in my brain
to loosen up and unbind from the meth) And they do say they’ll
give me other
drugs to “keep me comfortable” but a shot of dope wouldn’t
have straightened
me out this morning so I doubt a Valium or two will do much of
anything.
Ahhh! Maybe a little pain is good and will keep the experience
fresh for me
but if this morning was just a taste of whats to come I’m in
for some real
hurtin.
Thanks for listening. -M.

HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 7/19/04 4:07:29 AM, fakeplacebo@hotmail.com
writes:

>When someone try to quit oppiates dosage of daily consumpiton
is important,
>I experienced this by myself.. When I’m on high dose; while
trying to
quite;
>deprivation semptoms was always heavy and more painfull.

I would say that what you are saying is correct but, I
would\not make it
mandatory for persons seeking ibogaine to lower their dose
though most
likely it
would benefit them. Many persons on heroin who are treated
tend to binge
before getting treated. That is, they increase their use.
Regardless of what
they
are told. So, if you are asking me, “Will it benefit me to
lower my dose of
opiates before I am treated with ibogaine”, the answer is most
likely yes.
If
you are asking should ibogaine patients be required to reduce
their dose of
opia! tes or be refused treatment, I would say no. Instead of
remaining the
user
friendly system that it is, ibogaine would become one more
punitive drug
therapy program. Patients would tend to want it less and lie
about their
drug use
more. Then would you want to test them to see how much drugs
they are using
from time to time? Would you punish them somehow if they are
using the same
amount or using more? The last things I want to hear about
ibogaine is the
same
complaints I hear about methadone clinics in that they are
abusive and
disrespectful to the patient.

I have already initiated a program to offer ibogaine patients some
protection
from abuse as well as being able to offer safety guidance to
providers and
will write to that issue soon.

On technical issues of withdrawal regardless of whether less
is better or
not, it appears ibogaine works within tiers of drug use. From
drug use
amount x
– y will make little or no difference b! ut, from a – b might
not allow
ibogaine
to eliminate withdrawal signs as well. As with everything,
this is a very
patient-to-patient response. And, of course the dose and dose
regimen of
ibogaine plays an effect as well. It would be interesting to
see the results
of
research in this area but, I don’t anticipate that will be
some time soon or
possibly ever.

By the way, what is your first language?

Howard

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Hi – i’m interested to follow this thread re: reducing dose prior to ibo – when I wrote asking about this a few months back – the very strong response from all who replied was that I should NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES take ibo without drastically reducing my habit (methodone), to something like 5-10 mg – which is a long way from where i’m at now…So, in the light of recent posts, can we get some general cosensus (hows about a vote) from those people who actually know what they are talking about and have some basis for their view, on whether it is ok to go from straight from a daily meth dose of @ 100 mg to an ibo dose??

YThanx

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From: <gboy@hush.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine Association methadone protocol (was reduce consumption -iboga zip)
Date: July 20, 2004 at 2:58:15 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—–
Hash: SHA1

dog this is funny. patrick much respect but I’d
like to hear this one from you too. From the
outside it looks like most of the people giving
all this advice didn’t take any of it when they
cleaned up. Where have you done ibo the last
15 times you’ve dosed? Your not letting anyone
decide what you can or cant do dog. All this
reads like peeps power tripping and that is
all.

ibogaine.mindvox.com is sweet. There I said
something nice.

dog for real, mad respect but all this sounds
like peeps jacking off and making others do
what they never had to, nothing more. I would
love to hear that scientific reason behind
all of it. If its anything like the science
behind the ibo study in maps its about as
scientific as high times, bullshit. Mash did
it because she wanted to then everybody
follows that because they don’t know what
they’re doing and she must be right.

That’s been a joke for so long, go to st.
kitts and pay to be sick. so now go to
anywhere and pay to be sick? great plan.
Patrick say something dog, none of this
has anything to do with how you cleaned
up and you know it.

.g

On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 21:34:07 -0700 Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Hi Randy what I wonder about is are you all doing that
just because everybody copies what Mash does and she
decided to detox everyone before giving them ibogaine
or is there some real reason for it? I always thought
one of the greatest things about ibogaine was that you
didn’t have to go through withdrawl before doing it.
Now everybody is being forced into withdrawl
beforehand??? Why? Do you have any scientific reason
for what you all are doing. Patrick I know you never
respond to any of this but come on, were you clean
when you did ibogaine??

Nobody ever knows why Mash does anything, ok sorry
nobody who knows ever explains anything right Patrick?
So now anyone who goes to St. Kitts or Mexico has to
be sick before? Why? I think that’s awful.

Patrick come on you too, you never answer anything
about any of this. Randy has almost 3 years and he
shot speedballs the day before, you have more then 4,
almost 5? Did you taper down? Dave? I would honestly
like to know what relationship there is between all of
this that all the treatment people are deciding the
clients have to go through and people who made it and
have lasted. Using the three of you as a example I’d
have to say none at all.

Carla B

— Randy Hencken <randyhencken@hotmail.com> wrote:
Dave et all,

Our methadone patients take their last methadone on
Monday morning.  on
Tuesday and Wednesday we give them other medications
(benzos clonopine etc.)
to keep them comfortable and then they are ready for
their dose on Thursday
morning so it is only to days off methadone, not
three.  We have found that
this has worked best in patient?s recovery.  Two
days off of methadone is
not as bad as you are imagining.  We have been using
this design for quite a
while now.  When patients are away from their normal
activity and relaxing
at our treatment center, you would be surprised as
to how little withdrawal
symptoms they exhibit under these circumstances.
Three years ago (yes that
rights, I am now three years off dope this month)
when I took ibogaine after
doing methadone and speedballs all day the day
before, my recovery was slow
and more difficult than what we are seeing in our
methadone patients now.
Our top priorities at the IA are patient comfort and
safety. We have no
desire to see anyone of our patients go through
unneeded suffering.

Also FYI, we are now doing medical tests on site as
part of the treatment.
Patients over 40 will need medical test before
coming and will be retested
at our treatment center.

Peace,
Randy

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] reduce consumption -iboga
zip
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 13:14:22 -1000

Just in case anyone saw it. As if you’d rob
someone and then make then
smoke crack. And who smokes crack like that.

LOL, I couldn’t imagine sparing any crack, to
anyone.

But seriously… waiting a DAY before dosing is one
thing, you should be
fine.  But waiting 3 DAYs… (thats Tuesday,
Wednesday, Thursday) thats a
bit much.

Randy? Your thoughts on this matter?

__________________________________
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From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] bwiti trip report
Date: July 20, 2004 at 2:25:16 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Bill, I am curious. How did you almost die?

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re:
Date: July 20, 2004 at 2:01:50 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey! What’s up Jim and Callie? You probably think I’m pretty stupid re: computers and you would be correct. I know very little. Could one of you8 tell me what exactly is going on re: fish,messages she did not send and viruses? I’m so fucking naive about this stuff!

Thanks,
Julian

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] VIRUS
Date: July 20, 2004 at 1:52:20 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Callie didn’t send those messages. She always and I mean ALWAYS writes her letters in large, blue print style!

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] reduce consumption
Date: July 20, 2004 at 1:47:39 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Mark wrote >And Preston we will talk but I think its crazy to go though all
of this if your not committed to getting off that meth. But thats just me.
I’ll call.<

I’m not on meth, having kicked it pretty much cold turkey about 4 years ago
almost, after a short spell of dropping dose levels every other week until I
had only a week’s take home of 5  mil bottles, (which were only drunk about
2 years ago in a fit of desperation- after sitting chilling in the fridge
for almost 2 years before that) so no worries there Mark my friend. But I do
hear you- as I’ve often said on this list, I don’t think ibogaine works any
better than any other “cure” or “rehab” or “treatment” modality IF there is
not the will to quit already firmly taken root within the person taking the
iboaine, if that is what they are in fact ingesting it for, to get off this
or that substance. But as everyone knows, I’ve not tried ibogaine yet, so I
can’t say one hundred percent for sure anything at all about it other than
that I am very intersted in trying it and hope it would do all that is
advertised, or more even if I could get so lucky.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: mcorcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 8:08 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] reduce consumption

Hey Howard. I was a little surprised when I didn’t hear from you, hope my
emails are getting through. It was good to see your name on my screen.  I
hope its obvious that I’m willing to do what it takes and I’m souly
following the lead of the people who are treating me but it makes me feel
much better about the whole thing to sound out my thoughts to the people on
Mindvox and I find all responses comforting in one way or another. As you
know, and thanks to you, it is really the only place where I can be totally
honest about my fears as well as my hopes. But maybe your right.
I don’t like the idea of being sick for a few days but its certainly better
than the alternative of staying sick, which is where I’m at now. As I wrote
in my posts I have to believe that there is a reason behind each and every
step and I am putting my faith in them. Does it concern me a little that
people were able to do this without going those two or three days (whichever
why you look at it)? Of course it does, but as I’ve said several times if
they asked me to stand on my head for those days then thats what I will do.
I’d rather go through two or three days of hell than walk away from this
treatment still feeling very sick. So when Randy tells me this is the best
way and to trust in them that is exactly what I am going to do. But it does
help to have all of you to sound out these fears with. And again I have you
to thank for that Howard. Jeeze if this works like I hope it will, I will be
indebted to you for the rest of my days! But I’m not alone there.
I like the idea that in a short time it will be post ibogaine and I’ll be
sitting somewhere in some hotel in San Diego letting all of you know which
what was right and what wasn’t right, for me anyway.
But thanks Howard and I completely understand what your saying.

On a slightly different note, I’ve found that tonight is the worst night so
far withdrawal wise.
As some of you know I went down last Tuesday 10 whole mils from 100 to 90
and I had hardly any withdrawal. Then today almost a week later I start
feeling it tonight!
I smoke a huge amount of pot and last night I ran out so that might have
something to do with it because for me (with me meth not dope) if I’m a
little sick if I smoke a little I feel better. But I’m tryin to save a
little cash and clear my system out a little and 60 bucks for pot is just
too much for me with all of the expense I’m looking at in these next couple
of weeks. I might shoot some dope tonight. No I wont but it was therapeutic
to write it.
Okay going for a walk to clear this sick sick head of mine. look forward to
hearing back.

And Preston we will talk but I think its crazy to go though all of this if
your not committed to getting off that meth. But thats just me.
I’ll call.

HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 7/19/04 9:29:29 AM, mcorcoran27@yahoo.com writes:

three days without before the ibo I just know I will be a disaster and
THAT scares me to death. It makes complete sense why they do it that way
( they need to give me a little time for the receptors in my brain to
loosen
up and unbind from the meth) And they do say they’ll give me other drugs
to “keep me comfortable” but a shot of dope wouldn’t have straightened
me out this morning so I doubt a Valium or two will do much of anything.
Ahhh! Maybe a little pain is good and will keep the experience fresh f
me but if this morning was just a taste of whats to come I’m in for some
real hurtin.

Mark,

Possibly you should be talking to the people who will be treating you rather
than writing a list that has no responsibility for your treatment. And I do
mean talking to them about details. Every question you have should be
answered.

Howard

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From: Bill Ross <ross@cgl.ucsf.edu>
Subject: [ibogaine] bwiti trip report
Date: July 20, 2004 at 1:32:16 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.ewatravel.com/bwiti_revisited.htm

Bwiti Revisited, Tom LeBlanc June 20, 2004

“I went through this initiation when I was twenty-two years old.
It happened twenty-two years ago, half a lifetime ago. I am really
happy that I did it, but if I had known how hard it was going to be.
that I would almost die, I probably wouldn’t have done it. Still,
I’m grateful I did. Sometimes ignorance is a good thing.”

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From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine Association methadone protocol (was reduce consumption -iboga zip)
Date: July 20, 2004 at 12:41:03 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I read back what I wrote and wish I said it
differently but that is what I felt when I wrote it
and still feel. Patrick I’m sorry, you get beat up on
a lot and everyone dumps shit on you because of Mash
and I honestly haven’t ever seen you do anything to
anyone except help them and that includes me from a
long time ago so thank you 🙂 and you probably work
your ass off to run all this. I love the new web site
thank you 🙂 Randy you too, I don’t mean to go off
like that but I do think that Mash just does anything
she wants to do, then everyone copies it without
knowing why and everyone doing ibogaine suffers for no
reason. I’m sorry that sucks.

Carla B

__________________________________________________
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From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine Association methadone protocol (was reduce consumption -iboga zip)
Date: July 20, 2004 at 12:34:07 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Randy what I wonder about is are you all doing that
just because everybody copies what Mash does and she
decided to detox everyone before giving them ibogaine
or is there some real reason for it? I always thought
one of the greatest things about ibogaine was that you
didn’t have to go through withdrawl before doing it.
Now everybody is being forced into withdrawl
beforehand??? Why? Do you have any scientific reason
for what you all are doing. Patrick I know you never
respond to any of this but come on, were you clean
when you did ibogaine??

Nobody ever knows why Mash does anything, ok sorry
nobody who knows ever explains anything right Patrick?
So now anyone who goes to St. Kitts or Mexico has to
be sick before? Why? I think that’s awful.

Patrick come on you too, you never answer anything
about any of this. Randy has almost 3 years and he
shot speedballs the day before, you have more then 4,
almost 5? Did you taper down? Dave? I would honestly
like to know what relationship there is between all of
this that all the treatment people are deciding the
clients have to go through and people who made it and
have lasted. Using the three of you as a example I’d
have to say none at all.

Carla B

— Randy Hencken <randyhencken@hotmail.com> wrote:
Dave et all,

Our methadone patients take their last methadone on
Monday morning.  on
Tuesday and Wednesday we give them other medications
(benzos clonopine etc.)
to keep them comfortable and then they are ready for
their dose on Thursday
morning so it is only to days off methadone, not
three.  We have found that
this has worked best in patient’s recovery.  Two
days off of methadone is
not as bad as you are imagining.  We have been using
this design for quite a
while now.  When patients are away from their normal
activity and relaxing
at our treatment center, you would be surprised as
to how little withdrawal
symptoms they exhibit under these circumstances.
Three years ago (yes that
rights, I am now three years off dope this month)
when I took ibogaine after
doing methadone and speedballs all day the day
before, my recovery was slow
and more difficult than what we are seeing in our
methadone patients now.
Our top priorities at the IA are patient comfort and
safety. We have no
desire to see anyone of our patients go through
unneeded suffering.

Also FYI, we are now doing medical tests on site as
part of the treatment.
Patients over 40 will need medical test before
coming and will be retested
at our treatment center.

Peace,
Randy

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] reduce consumption -iboga
zip
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 13:14:22 -1000

Just in case anyone saw it. As if you’d rob
someone and then make then
smoke crack. And who smokes crack like that.

LOL, I couldn’t imagine sparing any crack, to
anyone.

But seriously… waiting a DAY before dosing is one
thing, you should be
fine.  But waiting 3 DAYs… (thats Tuesday,
Wednesday, Thursday) thats a
bit much.

Randy? Your thoughts on this matter?

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] too good not to share
Date: July 20, 2004 at 12:32:06 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

That is too funny!! I can’t believe they did not see what would happen! LMAO!
Callie

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Meth withdrawal before Ibo?????
Date: July 19, 2004 at 9:55:07 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Mark, I am beyond pumped up for you!!! I’m going for Ibo treatment in 2 months so I am paying big time attention to the list and everything related to Ibogaine, especially new info.  Its been my experience in the past that methadone joneses don’t really kick in hard for 3, 4, days or even longer. Of course this all depends on the person and how quickly his metabolism works. I have personally kicked meth twice all the way. That is to say I stayed off of it for more than 3 months. I just can’t make it stick. I have used loperamide ( anti diarrheal medication) to keep the diarrheal at bay. It really works like a charm for me. Take one the night of your last dose and then the next day 2 every time you have to make the old run and squirt. Please make sure you tell your provider what you are doing. As far as the upset stomach that goes with it, cannabis is the best thing that I know of but I’m sure your hip to that. Hope this helps and I can’t wait to see that first post you make when you get back.  Stay strong and keep your head up and I’m sure you’ll be fine.    Randy

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] too good not to share
Date: July 19, 2004 at 9:34:06 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

ORIGINAL MESSAGE

http://homepages.nyu.edu/~meo232/sloganator/

The background story is as follows: in March, the web site for the
Bush-Cheney campaign – the real one, paid for by MBNA America and
Richard Scaife – featured a “create your own banner” tool, where you
could enter your own slogan and print out your own poster, with the
Bush-Cheney logo, and a note at the bottom “paid for by Bush-Cheney ’04,

Inc.” Democrats, of course, couldn’t get enough of this. The original
sloganator accepted everything, then it started censoring profanity and
words like “Hitler,” “dictator,” and “evil.” Nevertheless, many clever
folks exploited the sloganator to their own ends before its sad demise
only a couple of weeks after its birth, and its mourners assembled some
of the best for the slide show:

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Ibogaine Incident/Grievance Report Form
Date: July 19, 2004 at 9:34:05 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The Ibogaine Report Form Project is being implemented to improve ibogaine
therapy by providing a process for reporting information of adverse medical
events, safety issues and other incidents that may impact on ibogaine treatment and
care. The form enables patients and providers alike to report any incident
whether negligible or life threatening. Data of a medical nature will be shared
with all ibogaine providers to help assure the safety of persons treated with
ibogaine. Information that is shared will not include the identity of patients
or providers. An incident report may be filed by a provider, a patient or any
treatment team member.

This form may also be used to file a grievance. However, grievance reports
may only be filed by patients. Though I am certain some providers will feel that
is unfair. Discussion of grievance reports will only take place between the
Dora Weiner Foundation and the parties involved. Should you wish us to contact
the ibogaine provider on your behalf we will require you to sign a medical
information release form.  For more information:

http://www.doraweiner.org/incident.html

With forty years of ibogaine experience and four years handling patient
grievances for the National Alliance of Methadone Advocates I feel I am singularly
qualified to undertake this work for the benefit of providers and patients
alike.

Howard S. Lotsof
President
Dora Weiner Foundation
POB 10032
Staten Island, NY 10301-0032
USA
dir tel, 1 718 442-2754
dir fax, 1 718 442-1957
email, dwf123@earthlink.net
http://www.doraweiner.org

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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] reduce consumption -iboga zip
Date: July 19, 2004 at 9:27:41 PM EDT
To: Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Cc: Patrick Kroupa <digital@phantom.com>

DOH!

now “they” know everything, and where to find you, too.

fuck, they probably didn’t need our help. I doubt they care that much anyhow.

I guess you don’t need me rubbing this in.

I know, I know, Mark did the same thing… previously too.

and then, he responded publicly to an email I specifically sent direct to him subjected “OFF LIST”.

aye vaye.

dooood, someday you and me and patrick will have to meet face to face.

I’ve not met PK but without hesitation he is one of my closest friends/brothers.

of course that may all change the minute i see him.

nah.

On Monday, July 19, 2004, at 01:12 PM, Preston Peet wrote:

Dave, no its not “frank” although I’ve been having a hard time getting in
touch with him lately. My original plan was to do that with him and no he
administers after 24 hours and he thought that even reducing my dose was
unnecessary. Anyway when I came clean to my family they asked me the details
and when I told them I’d be doing it at home or in a hotel room they
freaked. So they volunteered to lend me the money to do it with a
professional medical staff so I’m going to the Ibogaine Association in
Mexico. However, I am hoping to still keep a spot open here in NY just in
case I come home in two weeks and I’m still not feeling right I can do
another therapeutic towards the end of August.<

Mark, PLEASE, do NOT publicize Frank’s name, nor the fact that anyone is
doing this in NYC, PLEASE. There are for CERTAIN prohibitionist
cops/feds/etc reading and lurking on this list.
Just saying, as it might not be such a great idea to clue them into the
massive amount of guerilla treatments going on at the moment.

But it would be good to see you and say hello before I leave considering
were only blocks away from each other.<

Our phone number is: 212-674-0556. Also, I’m djing at Duck on 6th, between
Ave. A and B from 11PM to 4AM Wednesday night. It’s my last Wednesday night
gig there, so swing by. That’s a good reason to go out, right?
Looking forward to hearing from you, and meeting up sometime.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: mcorcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 4:50 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] reduce consumption -iboga zip

I changed my mind, FUCK going back to work. Its 4:30, I’m home, and my guess
is Friday will be my last day anyway… seeing as that they will surely fire
me when l leave for at least two weeks. But fuck um if they can’t take a
joke right? I’m on probation with them to begin with so why am I making
myself crazy. I’m only as goods as the last dollar I made them anyway and
lately I have taken more money from them than I’ve made.  I’m just gonna
relax here and see what you good people have to say about this two day kick
before the Ibo ingestion.
Lookin forward to hearing what you have to say.
Dave, no its not “frank” although I’ve been having a hard time getting in
touch with him lately. My original plan was to do that with him and no he
administers after 24 hours and he thought that even reducing my dose was
unnecessary. Anyway when I came clean to my family they asked me the details
and when I told them I’d be doing it at home or in a hotel room they
freaked. So they volunteered to lend me the money to do it with a
professional medical staff so I’m going to the Ibogaine Association in
Mexico. However, I am hoping to still keep a spot open here in NY just in
case I come home in two weeks and I’m still not feeling right I can do
another therapeutic towards the end of August.
What are your thoughts on that?
And Preston, I’d love to meet up for a cup of coffee and maybe a few shots
of coke before I leave. Just kidding.  But it would be good to see you and
say hello before I leave considering were only blocks away from each other.

mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com> wrote:
gotta run back to work but I’m very interested to hear any and all thoughts
on this.
My last response addressed the two days without meth but again I’m open to
everything anyone has to say about this subject. Thanks.

D H <dave@phantom.com> wrote:

Now as for the throwing it up. I m not a fan of putting anything in
my ass although when I was 16 I tried MDMA that way and it was even
more intense than shooting it. I digress. So I guess what I’m getting
at is if the Ibogaine has the ability to exacerbate nausea and
vomiting and its very likely that I’m going to be nauseous and
vomiting to begin with, maybe its not the worst idea to do it as a
suppository? Would that lessen the propensity to vomit? Also how many
HCL pills will I be taking? I’m 175 and I’m kicking a pretty big dose.

Mark,

I definitely don’t understand why you are putting yourself thru two
days of withdrawal when it is entirely unnecessary.

The methadone >>> ibo should be seamless… take the ibo when you would
normally take that days dose, 24 hours a! fter your last Methadone dose.
or 12 hours after your last shot of dope.

The nausea is a valid concern, especially if you are already in
withdrawal. and not the best mindset to go into the Ibo with.

Ibo is very very bitter and is quite active in the stomach, especially
an empty one – which is what you should be taking it on.

motion will make the nausea even worse.

I would guess you’d have to swallow between 3-5 caps, depending on how
they are made up.

“some” providers mix an anti-nauseant into the hcl caps.

methadone dose on tuesday and wednesday!!!

unless there is some logistical impossible to avoid reason you are not
taking the M for two days before the treatment?!

did i miss something in an earlier post as to the reason of this choice
of self-torture?

_.dh

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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine Association methadone protocol (was reduce consumption -iboga zip)
Date: July 19, 2004 at 9:23:35 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Our methadone patients take their last methadone on Monday morning.  on Tuesday and Wednesday we give them other medications (benzos clonopine etc.) to keep them comfortable and then they are ready for their dose on Thursday morning so it is only to days off methadone, not three.  We have found that this has worked best in patient’s recovery.

That seems reasonable. 2 days… yep, you’re right, counting by the 24 hours and dosing in the AM thursday.

It was conveyed to me that no meds were available for comfort.

Although I still lean towards a “seamless” dosing regimen, if you guys have a history of results doing what you do, then that’s cool.

Thanks for clarifying!

and… three years bro… Thats great! I remember when you first came around, and now look at yah!

rock on!

Peace,
_.dh

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From: “Randy Hencken” <randyhencken@hotmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Ibogaine Association methadone protocol (was reduce consumption -iboga zip)
Date: July 19, 2004 at 8:37:50 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dave et all,

Our methadone patients take their last methadone on Monday morning.  on Tuesday and Wednesday we give them other medications (benzos clonopine etc.) to keep them comfortable and then they are ready for their dose on Thursday morning so it is only to days off methadone, not three.  We have found that this has worked best in patient’s recovery.  Two days off of methadone is not as bad as you are imagining.  We have been using this design for quite a while now.  When patients are away from their normal activity and relaxing at our treatment center, you would be surprised as to how little withdrawal symptoms they exhibit under these circumstances.  Three years ago (yes that rights, I am now three years off dope this month) when I took ibogaine after doing methadone and speedballs all day the day before, my recovery was slow and more difficult than what we are seeing in our methadone patients now.  Our top priorities at the IA are patient comfort and safety. We have no desire to see anyone of our patients go through unneeded suffering.

Also FYI, we are now doing medical tests on site as part of the treatment.  Patients over 40 will need medical test before coming and will be retested at our treatment center.

Peace,
Randy

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] reduce consumption -iboga zip
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 13:14:22 -1000

Just in case anyone saw it. As if you’d rob someone and then make then smoke crack. And who smokes crack like that.

LOL, I couldn’t imagine sparing any crack, to anyone.

But seriously… waiting a DAY before dosing is one thing, you should be fine.  But waiting 3 DAYs… (thats Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday) thats a bit much.

Randy? Your thoughts on this matter?

but don’t let me stress you out, you know your body, your intentions seem to be very clear, if you can handle no meds for 3 days while you wait for treatment, then by all means, go for it.

It is my experience to make the “initiate” as comfortable as humanly possible before lift-off.

and I speak from multiple personal experiences, and sitting as a guide (yes, all over-seas).

_.dh

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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] reduce consumption
Date: July 19, 2004 at 8:08:43 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Howard. I was a little surprised when I didn’t hear from you, hope my emails are getting through. It was good to see your name on my screen.  I hope its obvious that I’m willing to do what it takes and I’m souly following the lead of the people who are treating me but it makes me feel much better about the whole thing to sound out my thoughts to the people on Mindvox and I find all responses comforting in one way or another. As you know, and thanks to you, it is really the only place where I can be totally honest about my fears as well as my hopes. But maybe your right.
I don’t like the idea of being sick for a few days but its certainly better than the alternative of staying sick, which is where I’m at now. As I wrote in my posts I have to believe that there is a reason behind each and every step and I am putting my faith in them. Does it concern me a little that people were able to do this without going those two or three days (whichever why you look at it)? Of course it does, but as I’ve said several times if they asked me to stand on my head for those days then thats what I will do. I’d rather go through two or three days of hell than walk away from this treatment still feeling very sick. So when Randy tells me this is the best way and to trust in them that is exactly what I am going to do. But it does help to have all of you to sound out these fears with. And again I have you to thank for that Howard. Jeeze if this works like I hope it will, I will be indebted to you for the rest of my days! But I’m not alone there.
I like the idea that in a short time it will be post ibogaine and I’ll be sitting somewhere in some hotel in San Diego letting all of you know which what was right and what wasn’t right, for me anyway.
But thanks Howard and I completely understand what your saying.

On a slightly different note, I’ve found that tonight is the worst night so far withdrawal wise.
As some of you know I went down last Tuesday 10 whole mils from 100 to 90 and I had hardly any withdrawal. Then today almost a week later I start feeling it tonight!
I smoke a huge amount of pot and last night I ran out so that might have something to do with it because for me (with me meth not dope) if I’m a little sick if I smoke a little I feel better. But I’m tryin to save a little cash and clear my system out a little and 60 bucks for pot is just too much for me with all of the expense I’m looking at in these next couple of weeks. I might shoot some dope tonight. No I wont but it was therapeutic to write it.
Okay going for a walk to clear this sick sick head of mine. look forward to hearing back.

And Preston we will talk but I think its crazy to go though all of this if your not committed to getting off that meth. But thats just me.
I’ll call.

HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 7/19/04 9:29:29 AM, mcorcoran27@yahoo.com writes:

> three days without before the ibo I just know I will be a disaster and
>THAT scares me to death. It makes complete sense why they do it that way
>( they need to give me a little time for the receptors in my brain to loosen
>up and unbind from the meth) And they do say they’ll give me other drugs
>to “keep me comfortable” but a shot of dope wouldn’t have straightened
>me out this morning so I doubt a Valium or two will do much of anything.
>Ahhh! Maybe a little pain is good and will keep the experience fresh f
>me but if this morning was just a taste of whats to come I’m in for some
>real hurtin.

Mark,

Possibly you should be talking to the people who will be treating you rather
than writing a list that has no responsibility for your treatment. And I do
mean talking to them about details. Every question you have should be answered.

Howard

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] reduce consumption -iboga zip
Date: July 19, 2004 at 7:59:43 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Just in case anyone saw it. As if you’d rob someone and then make then
smoke crack. <

LOL, wellll, uh, Mark, I didn’t really strong arm rob them, but way more
than once I did some scam or other on someone, then invited them to do my
cocaine with me, the cocaine I’d bought with the money I scammed out of
them- like selling them fake acid, then using the money to buy coke and
heroin, then sitting with them for hours doing “my” cocaine with them (but
not sharing the dope of course).
So, it ain’t totally unrealistic, but I didn’t see the flick, but I imagine
it wasn’t quite portrayed the way I’ve just described.
I used to be a crack person, until I picked up a rig and shot coke (which
permenently, apparently, cured me of my decade-long love affair with crack).
I still don’t like to watch it portrayed on flim though.
Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: mcorcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 6:55 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] reduce consumption -iboga zip

wanted to see if anyone saw Six Feet Under last night?  Yet another example
of addicts being portayed as sociopaths. It was very disturbing and gave me
nightmares.
Just in case anyone saw it. As if you’d rob someone and then make then smoke
crack. And who smokes crack like that. Okay it a weird way it got me going.
I’m not a crack person, never have been, but I do remember that first hit.
If you didn’t see it then you wont have any idea what I’m talking about but
if anyone did I’d be curious to see what you thought.
-m.

mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com> wrote:
Nope, no opiates at all to my knowledge. “Prophylactic meds” which I assume
means benzos and clonadine.
black tar and Klonopin sounds like a much more prophylactic to me! Actually
for the first time in my life thats not true. To be quite honest I’ve never
been so resigned to getting off drugs, so in that respect the less narcotics
the better. I mean I could stay in NY and get high… if thats what I
wanted. However, if the option was there to drink my meth those last two
days or at least do something to insure I wasn’t going to be totally sick I
would certainly be wiiling.
Oh well, I’m leaving it up to the professionals. I’m sure they’ve
experimented with all different scenarios and if they think this is the most
successful way then thats gotta be that. But if it were up to me I’d prefer
to not go into such an experience sick that scares me more than ANYTHING
else.
D H <dave@phantom.com> wrote:
hey there…

mexico… cool. But I’m surprised to hear they make go into withdrawals
first, I hadn’t heard about that from them.

Thats shitty and Unnecessary. But I already sed that
They don’t give you ANYTHING during the wait period? no short-acting
opiate to make you somewhat comfortable?

(pass the dilaudid, doc!)

_.dh

On Monday, July 19, 2004, at 10:50 AM, mcorcoran wrote:

I changed my mind, FUCK going back to work. Its 4:30, I’m home, and my
guess is Friday will be my last day anyway… seeing as that they will
surely fire me when l leave for at least two weeks. But fuck um if
they can’t take a joke right? I’m on probation with them to begin
with so why am I making myself crazy. I’m only as goods as the last
dollar I made them anyway an! d lately I have taken more money from them
than I’ve made.  I’m just gonna relax here and see what you good
people have to say about this two day kick before the Ibo ingestion.
Lookin forward to hearing what you have to say.
Dave, no its not “frank” although I’ve been having a hard time getting
in touch with him lately. My original plan was to do that with him and
no he administers after 24 hours and he thought that even reducing my
dose was unnecessary. Anyway when I came clean to my family they asked
me the details and when I told them I’d be doing it at home or in a
hotel room they freaked. So they volunteered to lend me the money to
do it with a professional medical staff so I’m going to the Ibogaine
Association in Mexico. However, I am hoping to still keep a spot open
here in NY just in case I come home in two weeks and I’m still not
feeling right I can d! o another therapeutic towards the end of August.
What are your thoughts on that?
And Preston, I’d love to meet up for a cup of coffee and maybe a few
shots of coke before I leave. Just kidding.  But it would be good to
see you and say hello before I leave considering were only blocks away
from each other.

mcorcoran wrote:

gotta run back to work but I’m very interested to hear any and all
thoughts on this.
My last response addressed the two days without meth but again I’m
open to everything anyone has to say about this subject. Thanks.

D H wrote:

Now as for the throwing it up. I m not a fan of putting anything in
my ass although when I was 16 I tried MDMA that way and it was even
more intense than shooting it. I digress. So I guess what I’m getting
! at is if the Ibogaine has the ability to exacerbate nausea and
vomiting and its very likely that I’m going to be nauseous and
vomiting to begin with, maybe its not the worst idea to do it as a
suppository? Would that lessen the propensity to vomit? Also how many
HCL pills will I be taking? I’m 175 and I’m kicking a pretty big
dose.

Mark,

I definitely don’t understand why you are putting yourself thru two
days of withdrawal when it is entirely unnecessary.

The methadone >>> ibo should be seamless… take the ibo when you would
normally take that days dose, 24 hours after your last Methadone dose.
or 12 hours after your last shot of dope.

The nausea is a valid concern, especially if you are already in
withdrawal. and not the best mindset to go into the Ibo with.

Ibo is very very bitter and is quite active ! in the stomach, especially
an empty one – which is what you should be taking it on.

motion will make the nausea even worse.

I would guess you’d have to swallow between 3-5 caps, depending on how
they are made up.

“some” providers mix an anti-nauseant into the hcl caps.

methadone dose on tuesday and wednesday!!!

unless there is some logistical impossible to avoid reason you are not
taking the M for two days before the treatment?!

did i miss something in an earlier post as to the reason of this choice
of self-torture?

_.dh

/
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] reduce consumption -iboga zip
Date: July 19, 2004 at 7:48:20 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

god, this has to be the LEAST brainy thing I’ve done is quite some time.
Living with 10 cats and a beautiful woman sometimes leads to distraction,
hence my sending a very private note to a whole freakin’ list of people.
I humbly apologize and think I’m going to take a break from the list for
a day or two, as I need to go soak my head and get over the embarrassment
and shame of posting this onlist.
DUh.
Anyway, pray for us all.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 7:12 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] reduce consumption -iboga zip

remainder snipped-

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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] reduce consumption -iboga zip
Date: July 19, 2004 at 7:22:02 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Who’s frank? I’ll be there on Wed. but lets talk before.

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>Dave, no its not “frank” although I’ve been having a hard time getting in
touch with him lately. My original plan was to do that with him and no he
administers after 24 hours and he thought that even reducing my dose was
unnecessary. Anyway when I came clean to my family they asked me the details
and when I told them I’d be doing it at home or in a hotel room they
freaked. So they volunteered to lend me the money to do it with a
professional medical staff so I’m going to the Ibogaine Association in
Mexico. However, I am hoping to still keep a spot open here in NY just in
case I come home in two weeks and I’m still not feeling right I can do
another therapeutic towards the end of August.<

Mark, PLEASE, do NOT publicize Frank’s name, nor the fact that anyone is
doing this in NYC, PLEASE. There are for CERTAIN prohibitionist
cops/feds/etc reading and lurking on this list.
Just saying, as it might not be such a great idea to clue them into the
massive amount of guerilla treatments going on at the moment.

>But it would be good to see you and say hello before I leave considering
were only blocks away from each other.<

Our phone number is: 212-674-0556. Also, I’m djing at Duck on 6th, between
Ave. A and B from 11PM to 4AM Wednesday night. It’s my last Wednesday night
gig there, so swing by. That’s a good reason to go out, right?
Looking forward to hearing from you, and meeting up sometime.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: mcorcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 4:50 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] reduce consumption -iboga zip

I changed my mind, FUCK going back to work. Its 4:30, I’m home, and my guess
is Friday will be my last day anyway… seeing as that they will surely fire
me when l leave for at least two weeks. But fuck um if they can’t take a
joke right? I’m on probation with them to begin with so why am I making
myself crazy. I’m only as goods as the last dollar I made them anyway and
lately I have taken more money from them than I’ve made. I’m just gonna
relax here and see what you good people have to say about this two day kick
before the Ibo ingestion.
Lookin forward to hearing what you have to say.
Dave, no its not “frank” although I’ve been having a hard time getting in
touch with him lately. My original plan was to do that with him and no he
administers after 24 hours and he thought that even reducing my dose was
unnecessary. Anyway when I came clean to my family they asked me the details
and when I told them I’d be doing it at home or in a hotel room they
freaked. So they volunteered to lend me the money to do it with a
professional medical staff so I’m going to the Ibogaine Association in
Mexico. However, I am hoping to still keep a spot open here in NY just in
case I come home in two weeks and I’m still not feeling right I can do
another therapeutic towards the end of August.
What are your thoughts on that?
And Preston, I’d love to meet up for a cup of coffee and maybe a few shots
of coke before I leave. Just kidding. But it would be good to see you and
say hello before I leave considering were only blocks away from each other.

mcorcoran wrote:
gotta run back to work but I’m very interested to hear any and all thoughts
on this.
My last response addressed the two days without meth but again I’m open to
everything anyone has to say about this subject. Thanks.

D H wrote:

> Now as for the throwing it up. I m not a fan of putting anything in
> my ass although when I was 16 I tried MDMA that way and it was even
> more intense than shooting it. I digress. So I guess what I’m getting
> at is if the Ibogaine has the ability to exacerbate nausea and
> vomiting and its very likely that I’m going to be nauseous and
> vomiting to begin with, maybe its not the worst idea to do it as a
> suppository? Would that lessen the propensity to vomit? Also how many
> HCL pills will I be taking? I’m 175 and I’m kicking a pretty big dose.

Mark,

I definitely don’t understand why you are putting yourself thru two
days of withdrawal when it is entirely unnecessary.

The methadone >>> ibo should be seamless… take the ibo when you would
normally take that days dose, 24 hours a! fter your last Methadone dose.
or 12 hours after your last shot of dope.

The nausea is a valid concern, especially if you are already in
withdrawal. and not the best mindset to go into the Ibo with.

Ibo is very very bitter and is quite active in the stomach, especially
an empty one – which is what you should be taking it on.

motion will make the nausea even worse.

I would guess you’d have to swallow between 3-5 caps, depending on how
they are made up.

“some” providers mix an anti-nauseant into the hcl caps.

methadone dose on tuesday and wednesday!!!

unless there is some logistical impossible to avoid reason you are not
taking the M for two days before the treatment?!

did i miss something in an earlier post as to the reason of this choice
of self-torture?

_.dh

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] reduce consumption
Date: July 19, 2004 at 7:13:41 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/19/04 9:29:29 AM, mcorcoran27@yahoo.com writes:

three days without before the ibo I just know I will be a disaster and
THAT scares me to death. It makes complete sense why they do it that way
( they need to give me a little time for the receptors in my brain to loosen
up and unbind from the meth) And they do say they’ll give me other drugs
to “keep me comfortable” but a shot of dope wouldn’t have straightened
me out this morning so I doubt a Valium or two will do much of anything.
Ahhh! Maybe a little pain is good and will keep the experience fresh for
me but if this morning was just a taste of whats to come I’m in for some
real hurtin.

Mark,

Possibly you should be talking to the people who will be treating you rather
than writing a list that has no responsibility for your treatment. And I do
mean talking to them about details.  Every question you have should be answered.

Howard

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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] reduce consumption -iboga zip
Date: July 19, 2004 at 7:14:22 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Just in case anyone saw it. As if you’d rob someone and then make then smoke crack. And who smokes crack like that.

LOL, I couldn’t imagine sparing any crack, to anyone.

But seriously… waiting a DAY before dosing is one thing, you should be fine.  But waiting 3 DAYs… (thats Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday) thats a bit much.

Randy? Your thoughts on this matter?

but don’t let me stress you out, you know your body, your intentions seem to be very clear, if you can handle no meds for 3 days while you wait for treatment, then by all means, go for it.

It is my experience to make the “initiate” as comfortable as humanly possible before lift-off.

and I speak from multiple personal experiences, and sitting as a guide (yes, all over-seas).

_.dh

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] reduce consumption -iboga zip
Date: July 19, 2004 at 7:12:08 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dave, no its not “frank” although I’ve been having a hard time getting in
touch with him lately. My original plan was to do that with him and no he
administers after 24 hours and he thought that even reducing my dose was
unnecessary. Anyway when I came clean to my family they asked me the details
and when I told them I’d be doing it at home or in a hotel room they
freaked. So they volunteered to lend me the money to do it with a
professional medical staff so I’m going to the Ibogaine Association in
Mexico. However, I am hoping to still keep a spot open here in NY just in
case I come home in two weeks and I’m still not feeling right I can do
another therapeutic towards the end of August.<

Mark, PLEASE, do NOT publicize Frank’s name, nor the fact that anyone is
doing this in NYC, PLEASE. There are for CERTAIN prohibitionist
cops/feds/etc reading and lurking on this list.
Just saying, as it might not be such a great idea to clue them into the
massive amount of guerilla treatments going on at the moment.

But it would be good to see you and say hello before I leave considering
were only blocks away from each other.<

Our phone number is: 212-674-0556. Also, I’m djing at Duck on 6th, between
Ave. A and B from 11PM to 4AM Wednesday night. It’s my last Wednesday night
gig there, so swing by. That’s a good reason to go out, right?
Looking forward to hearing from you, and meeting up sometime.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: mcorcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 4:50 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] reduce consumption -iboga zip

I changed my mind, FUCK going back to work. Its 4:30, I’m home, and my guess
is Friday will be my last day anyway… seeing as that they will surely fire
me when l leave for at least two weeks. But fuck um if they can’t take a
joke right? I’m on probation with them to begin with so why am I making
myself crazy. I’m only as goods as the last dollar I made them anyway and
lately I have taken more money from them than I’ve made.  I’m just gonna
relax here and see what you good people have to say about this two day kick
before the Ibo ingestion.
Lookin forward to hearing what you have to say.
Dave, no its not “frank” although I’ve been having a hard time getting in
touch with him lately. My original plan was to do that with him and no he
administers after 24 hours and he thought that even reducing my dose was
unnecessary. Anyway when I came clean to my family they asked me the details
and when I told them I’d be doing it at home or in a hotel room they
freaked. So they volunteered to lend me the money to do it with a
professional medical staff so I’m going to the Ibogaine Association in
Mexico. However, I am hoping to still keep a spot open here in NY just in
case I come home in two weeks and I’m still not feeling right I can do
another therapeutic towards the end of August.
What are your thoughts on that?
And Preston, I’d love to meet up for a cup of coffee and maybe a few shots
of coke before I leave. Just kidding.  But it would be good to see you and
say hello before I leave considering were only blocks away from each other.

mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com> wrote:
gotta run back to work but I’m very interested to hear any and all thoughts
on this.
My last response addressed the two days without meth but again I’m open to
everything anyone has to say about this subject. Thanks.

D H <dave@phantom.com> wrote:

Now as for the throwing it up. I m not a fan of putting anything in
my ass although when I was 16 I tried MDMA that way and it was even
more intense than shooting it. I digress. So I guess what I’m getting
at is if the Ibogaine has the ability to exacerbate nausea and
vomiting and its very likely that I’m going to be nauseous and
vomiting to begin with, maybe its not the worst idea to do it as a
suppository? Would that lessen the propensity to vomit? Also how many
HCL pills will I be taking? I’m 175 and I’m kicking a pretty big dose.

Mark,

I definitely don’t understand why you are putting yourself thru two
days of withdrawal when it is entirely unnecessary.

The methadone >>> ibo should be seamless… take the ibo when you would
normally take that days dose, 24 hours a! fter your last Methadone dose.
or 12 hours after your last shot of dope.

The nausea is a valid concern, especially if you are already in
withdrawal. and not the best mindset to go into the Ibo with.

Ibo is very very bitter and is quite active in the stomach, especially
an empty one – which is what you should be taking it on.

motion will make the nausea even worse.

I would guess you’d have to swallow between 3-5 caps, depending on how
they are made up.

“some” providers mix an anti-nauseant into the hcl caps.

methadone dose on tuesday and wednesday!!!

unless there is some logistical impossible to avoid reason you are not
taking the M for two days before the treatment?!

did i miss something in an earlier post as to the reason of this choice
of self-torture?

_.dh

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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] reduce consumption -iboga zip
Date: July 19, 2004 at 6:55:34 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

wanted to see if anyone saw Six Feet Under last night?  Yet another example of addicts being portayed as sociopaths. It was very disturbing and gave me nightmares.
Just in case anyone saw it. As if you’d rob someone and then make then smoke crack. And who smokes crack like that. Okay it a weird way it got me going. I’m not a crack person, never have been, but I do remember that first hit.
If you didn’t see it then you wont have any idea what I’m talking about but if anyone did I’d be curious to see what you thought.
-m.

mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com> wrote:
Nope, no opiates at all to my knowledge. “Prophylactic meds” which I assume means benzos and clonadine.
black tar and Klonopin sounds like a much more prophylactic to me! Actually for the first time in my life thats not true. To be quite honest I’ve never been so resigned to getting off drugs, so in that respect the less narcotics the better. I mean I could stay in NY and get high… if thats what I wanted. However, if the option was there to drink my meth those last two days or at least do something to insure I wasn’t going to be totally sick I would certainly be wiiling.
Oh well, I’m leaving it up to the professionals. I’m sure they’ve experimented with all different scenarios and if they think this is the most successful way then thats gotta be that. But if it were up to me I’d prefer to not go into such an experience sick that scares me more than ANYTHING else.
D H <dave@phantom.com> wrote:
hey there…

mexico… cool. But I’m surprised to hear they make go into withdrawals
first, I hadn’t heard about that from them.

Thats shitty and Unnecessary. But I already sed that
They don’t give you ANYTHING during the wait period? no short-acting
opiate to make you somewhat comfortable?

(pass the dilaudid, doc!)

_.dh

On Monday, July 19, 2004, at 10:50 AM, mcorcoran wrote:

> I changed my mind, FUCK going back to work. Its 4:30, I’m home, and my
> guess is Friday will be my last day anyway… seeing as that they will
> surely fire me when l leave for at least two weeks. But fuck um if
> they can’t take a joke right? I’m on probation with them to begin
> with so why am I making myself crazy. I’m only as goods as the last
> dollar I made them anyway and lately I have taken more money from them
> than I’ve made.  I’m just gonna relax here and see what you good
> people have to say about this two day kick before the Ibo ingestion.
> Lookin forward to hearing what you have to say.
> Dave, no its not “frank” although I’ve been having a hard time getting
> in touch with him lately. My original plan was to do that with him and
> no he administers after 24 hours and he thought that even reducing my
> dose was unnecessary. Anyway when I came clean to my family they asked
> me the details and when I told them I’d be doing it at home or in a
> hotel room they freaked. So they volunteered to lend me the money to
> do it with a professional medical staff so I’m going to the Ibogaine
> Association in Mexico. However, I am hoping to still keep a spot open
> here in NY just in case I come home in two weeks and I’m still not
> feeling right I can do another therapeutic towards the end of August.
> What are your thoughts on that?
> And Preston, I’d love to meet up for a cup of coffee and maybe a few
> shots of coke before I leave. Just kidding.  But it would be good to
> see you and say hello before I leave considering were only blocks away
> from each other.
>
> mcorcoran wrote:
>
> gotta run back to work but I’m very interested to hear any and all
> thoughts on this.
> My last response addressed the two days without meth but again I’m
> open to everything anyone has to say about this subject. Thanks.
>
> D H wrote:
>
>
> > Now as for the throwing it up. I m not a fan of putting anything in
> > my ass although when I was 16 I tried MDMA that way and it was even
> > more intense than shooting it. I digress. So I guess what I’m getting
> > at is if the Ibogaine has the ability to exacerbate nausea and
> > vomiting and its very likely that I’m going to be nauseous and
> > vomiting to begin with, maybe its not the worst idea to do it as a
> > suppository? Would that lessen the propensity to vomit? Also how many
> > HCL pills will I be taking? I’m 175 and I’m kicking a pretty big
> dose.
>
> Mark,
>
> I definitely don’t understand why you are putting yourself thru two
> days of withdrawal when it is entirely unnecessary.
>
> The methadone >>> ibo should be seamless… take the ibo when you would
> normally take that days dose, 24 hours after your last Methadone dose.
> or 12 hours after your last shot of dope.
>
> The nausea is a valid concern, especially if you are already in
> withdrawal. and not the best mindset to go into the Ibo with.
>
> Ibo is very very bitter and is quite active in the stomach, especially
> an empty one – which is what you should be taking it on.
>
> motion will make the nausea even worse.
>
> I would guess you’d have to swallow between 3-5 caps, depending on how
> they are made up.
>
> “some” providers mix an anti-nauseant into the hcl caps.
>
> methadone dose on tuesday and wednesday!!!
>
> unless there is some logistical impossible to avoid reason you are not
> taking the M for two days before the treatment?!
>
> did i miss something in an earlier post as to the reason of this choice
> of self-torture?
>
> _.dh
>
>
>
>
> /
> ]=———————————————————————
> =[\
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> http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> \]=——————————————————————–
> -=[/
>
>
>
>

>
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Vote for the stars of Yahoo!’s next ad campaign!
>
>
>

>
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Vote for the stars of Yahoo!’s next ad campaign!

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From: “Steven Anker” <stevenanker@hotmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Best to you, Mark!
Date: July 19, 2004 at 6:33:11 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Mark,

Here are my 2 cents:

Don’t be scared, it’ll be fine.

Best of luck and love to you. The Ibogaine Association are great people and they know what they doing. They didn’t make me wait a day when I did my treatment there, I talked to Randy a few days ago and he told me about there new procedure of waiting a day and it made sense to me. It’s good to get settled in a bit. They will take good care of you. Remember that the Bwiti do not use iboga as a detox, they want you clensed before taking the root. If you can, you may want to talk about the experience while going through it, that is one thing that you do in a Bwiti initiation and you tend to remember it better. Music is crucial, see if you can get some Pygmy music (Baka tribe is great) a good album is “Music of the forrest.” If you start getting scared talk it though. You can control the trip. Going through the dark-side may be helpful in purging your dark master. Iboga is ultimately about love. Or not.

Make some plans for yourself after the fact, check out “Keeping Clean” on mind-vox. Don’t have expectations of the trip, many people have no visions what so ever and the medicine still works. Ibogaine is not a magic pill, many go right back to using. I’ve come to think of it as a cool gift from god. And when someone gives you a cool gift, you say thanks and don’t waste such a wonderful gift. This is coming from an athiest turned agnostic. Make sure your apartment is clean when you return. It may be an excellent time to go into some therapy. Check out the work of Dr. Stan Graff and trans-personal therapy.

So glad that you are doing this for yourself. I hope you become an inspiration to those on the list who are thinking of doing it and to other addicts. We need more ibogaine folk on the ibogaine list, eh?

Take care of yourself and remember that addicts are god’s chosen ones.

Steve

_________________________________________________________________
Discover the best of the best at MSN Luxury Living. http://lexus.msn.com/

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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] reduce consumption -iboga zip
Date: July 19, 2004 at 5:32:39 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Nope, no opiates at all to my knowledge. “Prophylactic meds” which I assume means benzos and clonadine.
black tar and Klonopin sounds like a much more prophylactic to me! Actually for the first time in my life thats not true. To be quite honest I’ve never been so resigned to getting off drugs, so in that respect the less narcotics the better. I mean I could stay in NY and get high… if thats what I wanted. However, if the option was there to drink my meth those last two days or at least do something to insure I wasn’t going to be totally sick I would certainly be wiiling.
Oh well, I’m leaving it up to the professionals. I’m sure they’ve experimented with all different scenarios and if they think this is the most successful way then thats gotta be that. But if it were up to me I’d prefer to not go into such an experience sick that scares me more than ANYTHING else.
D H <dave@phantom.com> wrote:
hey there…

mexico… cool. But I’m surprised to hear they make go into withdrawals
first, I hadn’t heard about that from them.

Thats shitty and Unnecessary. But I already sed that
They don’t give you ANYTHING during the wait period? no short-acting
opiate to make you somewhat comfortable?

(pass the dilaudid, doc!)

_.dh

On Monday, July 19, 2004, at 10:50 AM, mcorcoran wrote:

> I changed my mind, FUCK going back to work. Its 4:30, I’m home, and my
> guess is Friday will be my last day anyway… seeing as that they will
> surely fire me when l leave for at least two weeks. But fuck um if
> they can’t take a joke right? I’m on probation with them to begin
> with so why am I making myself crazy. I’m only as goods as the last
> dollar I made them anyway and lately I have taken more money from them
> than I’ve made.  I’m just gonna relax here and see what you good
> people have to say about this two day kick before the Ibo ingestion.
> Lookin forward to hearing what you have to say.
> Dave, no its not “frank” although I’ve been having a hard time getting
> in touch with him lately. My original plan was to do that with him and
> no he administers after 24 hours and he thought that even reducing my
> dose was unnecessary. Anyway when I came clean to my family they asked
> me the details and when I told them I’d be doing it at home or in a
> hotel room they freaked. So they volunteered to lend me the money to
> do it with a professional medical staff so I’m going to the Ibogaine
> Association in Mexico. However, I am hoping to still keep a spot open
> here in NY just in case I come home in two weeks and I’m still not
> feeling right I can do another therapeutic towards the end of August.
> What are your thoughts on that?
> And Preston, I’d love to meet up for a cup of coffee and maybe a few
> shots of coke before I leave. Just kidding.  But it would be good to
> see you and say hello before I leave considering were only blocks away
> from each other.
>
> mcorcoran wrote:
>
> gotta run back to work but I’m very interested to hear any and all
> thoughts on this.
> My last response addressed the two days without meth but again I’m
> open to everything anyone has to say about this subject. Thanks.
>
> D H wrote:
>
>
> > Now as for the throwing it up. I m not a fan of putting anything in
> > my ass although when I was 16 I tried MDMA that way and it was even
> > more intense than shooting it. I digress. So I guess what I’m getting
> > at is if the Ibogaine has the ability to exacerbate nausea and
> > vomiting and its very likely that I’m going to be nauseous and
> > vomiting to begin with, maybe its not the worst idea to do it as a
> > suppository? Would that lessen the propensity to vomit? Also how many
> > HCL pills will I be taking? I’m 175 and I’m kicking a pretty big
> dose.
>
> Mark,
>
> I definitely don’t understand why you are putting yourself thru two
> days of withdrawal when it is entirely unnecessary.
>
> The methadone >>> ibo should be seamless… take the ibo when you would
> normally take that days dose, 24 hours after your last Methadone dose.
> or 12 hours after your last shot of dope.
>
> The nausea is a valid concern, especially if you are already in
> withdrawal. and not the best mindset to go into the Ibo with.
>
> Ibo is very very bitter and is quite active in the stomach, especially
> an empty one – which is what you should be taking it on.
>
> motion will make the nausea even worse.
>
> I would guess you’d have to swallow between 3-5 caps, depending on how
> they are made up.
>
> “some” providers mix an anti-nauseant into the hcl caps.
>
> methadone dose on tuesday and wednesday!!!
>
> unless there is some logistical impossible to avoid reason you are not
> taking the M for two days before the treatment?!
>
> did i miss something in an earlier post as to the reason of this choice
> of self-torture?
>
> _.dh
>
>
>
>
> /
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> -=[/
>
>
>
>

>
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>
>
>

>
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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] reduce consumption -iboga zip
Date: July 19, 2004 at 5:15:16 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hey there…

mexico… cool. But I’m surprised to hear they make go into withdrawals first, I hadn’t heard about that from them.

Thats shitty and Unnecessary. But I already sed that.

They don’t give you ANYTHING during the wait period? no short-acting opiate to make you somewhat comfortable?

(pass the dilaudid, doc!)

_.dh

On Monday, July 19, 2004, at 10:50 AM, mcorcoran wrote:

I changed my mind, FUCK going back to work. Its 4:30, I’m home, and my guess is Friday will be my last day anyway… seeing as that they will surely fire me when l leave for at least two weeks. But fuck um if they can’t take a joke right? I’m on probation with them to begin with so why am I making myself crazy. I’m only as goods as the last dollar I made them anyway and lately I have taken more money from them than I’ve made.  I’m just gonna relax here and see what you good people have to say about this two day kick before the Ibo ingestion.
Lookin forward to hearing what you have to say.
Dave, no its not “frank” although I’ve been having a hard time getting in touch with him lately. My original plan was to do that with him and no he administers after 24 hours and he thought that even reducing my dose was unnecessary. Anyway when I came clean to my family they asked me the details and when I told them I’d be doing it at home or in a hotel room they freaked. So they volunteered to lend me the money to do it with a professional medical staff so I’m going to the Ibogaine Association in Mexico. However, I am hoping to still keep a spot open here in NY just in case I come home in two weeks and I’m still not feeling right I can do another therapeutic towards the end of August.
What are your thoughts on that?
And Preston, I’d love to meet up for a cup of coffee and maybe a few shots of coke before I leave. Just kidding.  But it would be good to see you and say hello before I leave considering were only blocks away from each other.

mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com> wrote:

gotta run back to work but I’m very interested to hear any and all thoughts on this.
My last response addressed the two days without meth but again I’m open to everything anyone has to say about this subject. Thanks.

D H <dave@phantom.com> wrote:

> Now as for the throwing it up. I m not a fan of putting anything in
> my ass although when I was 16 I tried MDMA that way and it was even
> more intense than shooting it. I digress. So I guess what I’m getting
> at is if the Ibogaine has the ability to exacerbate nausea and
> vomiting and its very likely that I’m going to be nauseous and
> vomiting to begin with, maybe its not the worst idea to do it as a
> suppository? Would that lessen the propensity to vomit? Also how many
> HCL pills will I be taking? I’m 175 and I’m kicking a pretty big dose.

Mark,

I definitely don’t understand why you are putting yourself thru two
days of withdrawal when it is entirely unnecessary.

The methadone >>> ibo should be seamless… take the ibo when you would
normally take that days dose, 24 hours after your last Methadone dose.
or 12 hours after your last shot of dope.

The nausea is a valid concern, especially if you are already in
withdrawal. and not the best mindset to go into the Ibo with.

Ibo is very very bitter and is quite active in the stomach, especially
an empty one – which is what you should be taking it on.

motion will make the nausea even worse.

I would guess you’d have to swallow between 3-5 caps, depending on how
they are made up.

“some” providers mix an anti-nauseant into the hcl caps.

methadone dose on tuesday and wednesday!!!

unless there is some logistical impossible to avoid reason you are not
taking the M for two days before the treatment?!

did i miss something in an earlier post as to the reason of this choice
of self-torture?

_.dh

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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] reduce consumption -iboga zip
Date: July 19, 2004 at 4:50:39 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I changed my mind, FUCK going back to work. Its 4:30, I’m home, and my guess is Friday will be my last day anyway… seeing as that they will surely fire me when l leave for at least two weeks. But fuck um if they can’t take a joke right? I’m on probation with them to begin with so why am I making myself crazy. I’m only as goods as the last dollar I made them anyway and lately I have taken more money from them than I’ve made.  I’m just gonna relax here and see what you good people have to say about this two day kick before the Ibo ingestion.
Lookin forward to hearing what you have to say.
Dave, no its not “frank” although I’ve been having a hard time getting in touch with him lately. My original plan was to do that with him and no he administers after 24 hours and he thought that even reducing my dose was unnecessary. Anyway when I came clean to my family they asked me the details and when I told them I’d be doing it at home or in a hotel room they freaked. So they volunteered to lend me the money to do it with a professional medical staff so I’m going to the Ibogaine Association in Mexico. However, I am hoping to still keep a spot open here in NY just in case I come home in two weeks and I’m still not feeling right I can do another therapeutic towards the end of August.
What are your thoughts on that?
And Preston, I’d love to meet up for a cup of coffee and maybe a few shots of coke before I leave. Just kidding.  But it would be good to see you and say hello before I leave considering were only blocks away from each other.

mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com> wrote:
gotta run back to work but I’m very interested to hear any and all thoughts on this.
My last response addressed the two days without meth but again I’m open to everything anyone has to say about this subject. Thanks.

D H <dave@phantom.com> wrote:

> Now as for the throwing it up. I m not a fan of putting anything in
> my ass although when I was 16 I tried MDMA that way and it was even
> more intense than shooting it. I digress. So I guess what I’m getting
> at is if the Ibogaine has the ability to exacerbate nausea and
> vomiting and its very likely that I’m going to be nauseous and
> vomiting to begin with, maybe its not the worst idea to do it as a
> suppository? Would that lessen the propensity to vomit? Also how many
> HCL pills will I be taking? I’m 175 and I’m kicking a pretty big dose.

Mark,

I definitely don’t understand why you are putting yourself thru two
days of withdrawal when it is entirely unnecessary.

The methadone >>> ibo should be seamless… take the ibo when you would
normally take that days dose, 24 hours after your last Methadone dose.
or 12 hours after your last shot of dope.

The nausea is a valid concern, especially if you are already in
withdrawal. and not the best mindset to go into the Ibo with.

Ibo is very very bitter and is quite active in the stomach, especially
an empty one – which is what you should be taking it on.

motion will make the nausea even worse.

I would guess you’d have to swallow between 3-5 caps, depending on how
they are made up.

“some” providers mix an anti-nauseant into the hcl caps.

methadone dose on tuesday and wednesday!!!

unless there is some logistical impossible to avoid reason you are not
taking the M for two days before the treatment?!

did i miss something in an earlier post as to the reason of this choice
of self-torture?

_.dh

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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] reduce consumption -iboga zip
Date: July 19, 2004 at 4:10:38 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

gotta run back to work but I’m very interested to hear any and all thoughts on this.
My last response addressed the two days without meth but again I’m open to everything anyone has to say about this subject. Thanks.

D H <dave@phantom.com> wrote:

> Now as for the throwing it up. I am not a fan of putting anything in
> my ass although when I was 16 I tried MDMA that way and it was even
> more intense than shooting it. I digress. So I guess what I’m getting
> at is if the Ibogaine has the ability to exacerbate nausea and
> vomiting and its very likely that I’m going to be nauseous and
> vomiting to begin with, maybe its not the worst idea to do it as a
> suppository? Would that lessen the propensity to vomit? Also how many
> HCL pills will I be taking? I’m 175 and I’m kicking a pretty big dose.

Mark,

I definitely don’t understand why you are putting yourself thru two
days of withdrawal when it is entirely unnecessary.

The methadone >>> ibo should be seamless… take the ibo when you would
normally take that days dose, 24 hours after your last Methadone dose.
or 12 hours after your last shot of dope.

The nausea is a valid concern, especially if you are already in
withdrawal. and not the best mindset to go into the Ibo with.

Ibo is very very bitter and is quite active in the stomach, especially
an empty one – which is what you should be taking it on.

motion will make the nausea even worse.

I would guess you’d have to swallow between 3-5 caps, depending on how
they are made up.

“some” providers mix an anti-nauseant into the hcl caps.

methadone dose on tuesday and wednesday!!!

unless there is some logistical impossible to avoid reason you are not
taking the M for two days before the treatment?!

did i miss something in an earlier post as to the reason of this choice
of self-torture?

_.dh

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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] reduce consumption -iboga zip
Date: July 19, 2004 at 4:06:37 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey if it were up to me I would not go out of my way to put myself through
“unnecessary” suffering but I’m just following the protocol of the treatment center.
They say, and I think it sounds like it makes sense, that since Meth has such a long half life, my body needs that time to allow the receptors in my brain to loosen up or let go of the meth so that the Ibo can work as well as its supposed to, and so I wont be as sick afterward. I can’t imagine them waiting those days if they didn’t have to.
I know that in a lot of places they give you the Ibo 24 hours after your last dose of meth but they say this works a lot better. And the place I’m going to used to give you Morphine for one day and then give you the Ibo which sounds a lot easier but I’m following the advice of someone who I knows more about this than I obviously do. Another part of my problem is always thinking I know better than everyone else (Dr. M.) but again that has me here today.
So who knows. I’m certainly not looking forward to being sick but I’m trying to see the big picture as best I can.
Let me know what you think.

D H <dave@phantom.com> wrote:

On Monday, July 19, 2004, at 09:44 AM, mcorcoran wrote:

> Monday will be my last dose of meth and then Thursday my dose of
> Ibogaine

why are you putting yourself thru two days of unnecessary suffering?

wednesday should be your methadone last dose!

!

_.dh

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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] reduce consumption -iboga zip
Date: July 19, 2004 at 4:06:27 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

maybe its not the worst idea to do it as a suppository?

not a bad idea, that is if you are not projectile splattering because of the 2 days of withdrawal.

then it may be difficult to “retain” the medicine.

_.dh

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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] reduce consumption -iboga zip
Date: July 19, 2004 at 4:00:00 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Now as for the throwing it up. I am not a fan of putting anything in my ass although when I was 16 I tried MDMA that way and it was even more intense than shooting it. I digress. So I guess what I’m getting at is if the Ibogaine has the ability to exacerbate nausea and vomiting and its very likely that I’m going to be nauseous and vomiting to begin with, maybe its not the worst idea to do it as a suppository? Would that lessen the propensity to vomit? Also how many HCL pills will I be taking? I’m 175 and I’m kicking a pretty big dose.

Mark,

I definitely don’t understand why you are putting yourself thru two days of withdrawal when it is entirely unnecessary.

The methadone >>> ibo should be seamless… take the ibo when you would normally take that days dose, 24 hours after your last Methadone dose. or 12 hours after your last shot of dope.

The nausea is a valid concern, especially if you are already in withdrawal. and not the best mindset to go into the Ibo with.

Ibo is very very bitter and is quite active in the stomach, especially an empty one – which is what you should be taking it on.

motion will make the nausea even worse.

I would guess you’d have to swallow between 3-5 caps, depending on how they are made up.

“some” providers mix an anti-nauseant into the hcl caps.

methadone dose on tuesday and wednesday!!!

unless there is some logistical impossible to avoid reason you are not taking the M for two days before the treatment?!

did i miss something in an earlier post as to the reason of this choice of self-torture?

_.dh

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] reduce consumption -iboga zip
Date: July 19, 2004 at 3:54:57 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m 175lbs just in case anyone misunderstood.

mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com> wrote:
Monday will be my last dose of meth and then Thursday my dose of Ibogaine. I will appreciate all of the goods thoughts and candles, and thanks so much for that. I know that two full days without any meth is going to be a bitch and being on 90 mils its gonna hurt like hell.  Its a long time in between, the longest I’ve ever gone.  But I know in my heart of hearts that it can’t be a walk in the park. After 10 years of putting shit into my body, prescribed or otherwise, I can’t expect to go though this without any discomfort. Avoiding any slightest bit of discomfort has me where I am today to begin with. But I drank my meth this morning so its a little easier to talk this way now and be this brave and I know that I have been known to sing a different tune when I am sick. Whatever, the bottom line is I’m ready. I’m so ready to be free from this. Being free from the physical addiction just as much as being free from the backwards thinking. I am looking forward to getting to know myself in a new and deeper way. Not to mention I have to believe if I can do this successfully I can do anything.
Now as for the throwing it up. I am not a fan of putting anything in my ass although when I was 16 I tried MDMA that way and it was even more intense than shooting it. I digress. So I guess what I’m getting at is if the Ibogaine has the ability to exacerbate nausea and vomiting and its very likely that I’m going to be nauseous and vomiting to begin with, maybe its not the worst idea to do it as a suppository? Would that lessen the propensity to vomit? Also how many HCL pills will I be taking? I’m 175 and I’m kicking a pretty big dose. My reason for asking is that if I had to put one or two pills in my ass to avoid “throwing up my mothers milk” it might be worth it. But if its 10 pills then thats something that might not be as appealing.
Looking forward to hearing back from anyone who has been through a similar experience.
Thanks and again all the good thoughts and candles are tremendously appreciated.
M.

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>I started to wake up soaked with sweat in the morning,freezing cold, and
I’m dead sick For all the males out there, I’m experiencing the tell tale
sign which are those nasty wet dreams that you don’t remember but you wake
up all sticky, please tell me I’m not the only one!<

Ugh! I hate those “dreams” as they are so rarely involving actual sex- too
often they involve either my hitting the crack stem (and I’ve not smoked
crack for nearly a decade now) or shooting up, or talking to someone, or
walking down the street. Almost never do they involve sex, as noted, which
always leaves me feeling weird, and sticky.

>As I woke up this morning it was more evident that ever that by Tuesday
afternoon I’m going to be a disaster, so I can only imagine how much of a
mess I’m gonna be by Thursday morning. So my question is if I’m already dead
sick unable to control any of my body functions, which is quite possible,
and more likely that not, will I have a harder time keeping down the ibo and
will I be more predisposed to vomiting when they give me the ibo?<

Jesus christ, you’ve got major guts Mark. I am wishing and hoping the very
best for you, as I and I imagine so many others here can totally relate to
how you’re feeling now.

>And they do say they’ll give me other drugs to “keep me comfortable” but a
shot of dope wouldn’t have straightened me out this morning so I doubt a
Valium or two will do much of anything.<

Have they told you what other drugs they’ll give you to help your comfort
levels? Why are they making you wait til Thursday if you’re getting there on
Monday? Have they explasined this to you yet? I’d love to hear the reason
for this.

>Ahhh! Maybe a little pain is good and will keep the experience fresh for me
but if this morning was just a taste of whats to come I’m in for some real
hurtin.<

If it helps at all, remember that I at least will be thinking long good
thoughts in your direction until we next hear from you.
Peace, and best wishes,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: mcorcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 10:28 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] reduce consumption

Hey all. Counting the days for real now. This morning was the last Monday I
will ever be at my program. Very Liberating but a bit scary. I dropped down
10 from 100 to 90 last week and I am REALLY feeling the difference. And the
proof that its not in my head is that I’m not noticing a huge difference in
the day time but at night and the next morning its obvious. For example, a
couple of days after my last drop, which was 5 days ago, I started to wake
up soaked with sweat in the morning,freezing cold, and I’m dead sick For
all the males out there, I’m experiencing the tell tale sign which are those
nasty wet dreams that you don’t remember but you wake up all sticky, please
tell me I’m not the only one!
Anyway heres my question. The treatment center that I am going to is one
week long where I will drink my last dose of meth next Monday morning and
then I don’t take the Ibogaine till Thursday morning. As I woke up this
morning it was more evident that ever that by Tuesday afternoon I’m going to
be a disaster, so I can only imagine how much of a mess I’m gonna be by
Thursday morning. So my question is if I’m already dead sick unable to
control any of my body functions, which is quite possible, and more likely
that not, will I have a harder time keeping down the ibo and will I be more
predisposed to vomiting when they give me the ibo?
As anyone knows who reads my posts I’m willing to go through whatever it
takes. If they tell me to stand on my head for the first two or three days
before thats what I’m going to do. Or if they told me that they couldn’t
give me the Ibo for one reason or another after I got down there I would
obvious freak out but this means so much to me that I’d prob ably find a
good strong tree somewhere in Mexico and tie myself to it until I felt
better. Basically for me, failure is not an option. Walking back through
those doors to my program after Friday is simply not something I will allow
myself to do under any circumstances and coming back to NY before I’m
totally free from drugs is not an option either. Maybe I don’t have a
specific question but any feedback would be greatly appreciated. I just was
very concerned when I woke up this morning and now one hour after drinking
my meth I’m feeling a bit better and I know I’ll be fine in a half hou! r or
so but if I’m this sick after I wake up in the morning on as high a dose as
this when I go three days without before the ibo I just know I will be a
disaster and THAT scares me to death. It makes complete sense why they do it
that way ( they need to give me a little time for the receptors in my brain
to loosen up and unbind from the meth) And they do say they’ll give me other
drugs to “keep me comfortable” but a shot of dope wouldn’t have straightened
me out this morning so I doubt a Valium or two will do much of anything.
Ahhh! Maybe a little pain is good and will keep the experience fresh for me
but if this morning was just a taste of whats to come I’m in for some real
hurtin.
Thanks for listening. -M.

HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 7/19/04 4:07:29 AM, fakeplacebo@hotmail.com writes:

>When someone try to quit oppiates dosage of daily consumpiton is important,
>I experienced this by myself.. When I’m on high dose; while trying to
quite;
>deprivation semptoms was always heavy and more painfull.

I would say that what you are saying is correct but, I would\not make it
mandatory for persons seeking ibogaine to lower their dose though most
likely it
would benefit them. Many persons on heroin who are treated tend to binge
before getting treated. That is, they increase their use. Regardless of what
they
are told. So, if you are asking me, “Will it benefit me to lower my dose of
opiates before I am treated with ibogaine”, the answer is most likely yes.
If
you are asking should ibogaine patients be required to reduce their dose of
opia! tes or be refused treatment, I would say no. Instead of remaining the
user
friendly system that it is, ibogaine would become one more punitive drug
therapy program. Patients would tend to want it less and lie about their
drug use
more. Then would you want to test them to see how much drugs they are using
from time to time? Would you punish them somehow if they are using the same
amount or using more? The last things I want to hear about ibogaine is the
same
complaints I hear about methadone clinics in that they are abusive and
disrespectful to the patient.

I have already initiated a program to offer ibogaine patients some
protection
from abuse as well as being able to offer safety guidance to providers and
will write to that issue soon.

On technical issues of withdrawal regardless of whether less is better or
not, it appears ibogaine works within tiers of drug use. From drug use
amount x
– y will make little or no difference b! ut, from a – b might not allow
ibogaine
to eliminate withdrawal signs as well. As with everything, this is a very
patient-to-patient response. And, of course the dose and dose regimen of
ibogaine plays an effect as well. It would be interesting to see the results
of
research in this area but, I don’t anticipate that will be some time soon or
possibly ever.

By the way, what is your first language?

Howard

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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] reduce consumption -iboga zip
Date: July 19, 2004 at 3:51:10 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Monday, July 19, 2004, at 09:44 AM, mcorcoran wrote:

Monday will be my last dose of meth and then Thursday my dose of Ibogaine

why are you putting yourself thru two days of unnecessary suffering?

wednesday should be your methadone last dose!

!

_.dh

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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Voting for Kerry?
Date: July 19, 2004 at 3:47:38 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

www.jibjab.com  very funny.

Randy Hencken <randyhencken@hotmail.com> wrote:
This links title may be say it the best:

http://www.johnkerryisadouchebagbutimvotingforhimanyway.com/

~RH

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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] reduce consumption -iboga zip
Date: July 19, 2004 at 3:44:03 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Monday will be my last dose of meth and then Thursday my dose of Ibogaine. I will appreciate all of the goods thoughts and candles, and thanks so much for that. I know that two full days without any meth is going to be a bitch and being on 90 mils its gonna hurt like hell.  Its a long time in between, the longest I’ve ever gone.  But I know in my heart of hearts that it can’t be a walk in the park. After 10 years of putting shit into my body, prescribed or otherwise, I can’t expect to go though this without any discomfort. Avoiding any slightest bit of discomfort has me where I am today to begin with. But I drank my meth this morning so its a little easier to talk this way now and be this brave and I know that I have been known to sing a different tune when I am sick. Whatever, the bottom line is I’m ready. I’m so ready to be free from this. Being free from the physical addiction just as much as being free from the backwards thinking. I am looking forward to getting to know myself in a new and deeper way. Not to mention I have to believe if I can do this successfully I can do anything.
Now as for the throwing it up. I am not a fan of putting anything in my ass although when I was 16 I tried MDMA that way and it was even more intense than shooting it. I digress. So I guess what I’m getting at is if the Ibogaine has the ability to exacerbate nausea and vomiting and its very likely that I’m going to be nauseous and vomiting to begin with, maybe its not the worst idea to do it as a suppository? Would that lessen the propensity to vomit? Also how many HCL pills will I be taking? I’m 175 and I’m kicking a pretty big dose. My reason for asking is that if I had to put one or two pills in my ass to avoid “throwing up my mothers milk” it might be worth it. But if its 10 pills then thats something that might not be as appealing.
Looking forward to hearing back from anyone who has been through a similar experience.
Thanks and again all the good thoughts and candles are tremendously appreciated.
M.

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>I started to wake up soaked with sweat in the morning,freezing cold, and
I’m dead sick For all the males out there, I’m experiencing the tell tale
sign which are those nasty wet dreams that you don’t remember but you wake
up all sticky, please tell me I’m not the only one!<

Ugh! I hate those “dreams” as they are so rarely involving actual sex- too
often they involve either my hitting the crack stem (and I’ve not smoked
crack for nearly a decade now) or shooting up, or talking to someone, or
walking down the street. Almost never do they involve sex, as noted, which
always leaves me feeling weird, and sticky.

>As I woke up this morning it was more evident that ever that by Tuesday
afternoon I’m going to be a disaster, so I can only imagine how much of a
mess I’m gonna be by Thursday morning. So my question is if I’m already dead
sick unable to control any of my body functions, which is quite possible,
and more likely that not, will I have a harder time keeping down the ibo and
will I be more predisposed to vomiting when they give me the ibo?<

Jesus christ, you’ve got major guts Mark. I am wishing and hoping the very
best for you, as I and I imagine so many others here can totally relate to
how you’re feeling now.

>And they do say they’ll give me other drugs to “keep me comfortable” but a
shot of dope wouldn’t have straightened me out this morning so I doubt a
Valium or two will do much of anything.<

Have they told you what other drugs they’ll give you to help your comfort
levels? Why are they making you wait til Thursday if you’re getting there on
Monday? Have they explasined this to you yet? I’d love to hear the reason
for this.

>Ahhh! Maybe a little pain is good and will keep the experience fresh for me
but if this morning was just a taste of whats to come I’m in for some real
hurtin.<

If it helps at all, remember that I at least will be thinking long good
thoughts in your direction until we next hear from you.
Peace, and best wishes,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: mcorcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 10:28 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] reduce consumption

Hey all. Counting the days for real now. This morning was the last Monday I
will ever be at my program. Very Liberating but a bit scary. I dropped down
10 from 100 to 90 last week and I am REALLY feeling the difference. And the
proof that its not in my head is that I’m not noticing a huge difference in
the day time but at night and the next morning its obvious. For example, a
couple of days after my last drop, which was 5 days ago, I started to wake
up soaked with sweat in the morning,freezing cold, and I’m dead sick For
all the males out there, I’m experiencing the tell tale sign which are those
nasty wet dreams that you don’t remember but you wake up all sticky, please
tell me I’m not the only one!
Anyway heres my question. The treatment center that I am going to is one
week long where I will drink my last dose of meth next Monday morning and
then I don’t take the Ibogaine till Thursday morning. As I woke up this
morning it was more evident that ever that by Tuesday afternoon I’m going to
be a disaster, so I can only imagine how much of a mess I’m gonna be by
Thursday morning. So my question is if I’m already dead sick unable to
control any of my body functions, which is quite possible, and more likely
that not, will I have a harder time keeping down the ibo and will I be more
predisposed to vomiting when they give me the ibo?
As anyone knows who reads my posts I’m willing to go through whatever it
takes. If they tell me to stand on my head for the first two or three days
before thats what I’m going to do. Or if they told me that they couldn’t
give me the Ibo for one reason or another after I got down there I would
obvious freak out but this means so much to me that I’d prob ably find a
good strong tree somewhere in Mexico and tie myself to it until I felt
better. Basically for me, failure is not an option. Walking back through
those doors to my program after Friday is simply not something I will allow
myself to do under any circumstances and coming back to NY before I’m
totally free from drugs is not an option either. Maybe I don’t have a
specific question but any feedback would be greatly appreciated. I just was
very concerned when I woke up this morning and now one hour after drinking
my meth I’m feeling a bit better and I know I’ll be fine in a half hou! r or
so but if I’m this sick after I wake up in the morning on as high a dose as
this when I go three days without before the ibo I just know I will be a
disaster and THAT scares me to death. It makes complete sense why they do it
that way ( they need to give me a little time for the receptors in my brain
to loosen up and unbind from the meth) And they do say they’ll give me other
drugs to “keep me comfortable” but a shot of dope wouldn’t have straightened
me out this morning so I doubt a Valium or two will do much of anything.
Ahhh! Maybe a little pain is good and will keep the experience fresh for me
but if this morning was just a taste of whats to come I’m in for some real
hurtin.
Thanks for listening. -M.

HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 7/19/04 4:07:29 AM, fakeplacebo@hotmail.com writes:

>When someone try to quit oppiates dosage of daily consumpiton is important,
>I experienced this by myself.. When I’m on high dose; while trying to
quite;
>deprivation semptoms was always heavy and more painfull.

I would say that what you are saying is correct but, I would\not make it
mandatory for persons seeking ibogaine to lower their dose though most
likely it
would benefit them. Many persons on heroin who are treated tend to binge
before getting treated. That is, they increase their use. Regardless of what
they
are told. So, if you are asking me, “Will it benefit me to lower my dose of
opiates before I am treated with ibogaine”, the answer is most likely yes.
If
you are asking should ibogaine patients be required to reduce their dose of
opia! tes or be refused treatment, I would say no. Instead of remaining the
user
friendly system that it is, ibogaine would become one more punitive drug
therapy program. Patients would tend to want it less and lie about their
drug use
more. Then would you want to test them to see how much drugs they are using
from time to time? Would you punish them somehow if they are using the same
amount or using more? The last things I want to hear about ibogaine is the
same
complaints I hear about methadone clinics in that they are abusive and
disrespectful to the patient.

I have already initiated a program to offer ibogaine patients some
protection
from abuse as well as being able to offer safety guidance to providers and
will write to that issue soon.

On technical issues of withdrawal regardless of whether less is better or
not, it appears ibogaine works within tiers of drug use. From drug use
amount x
– y will make little or no difference b! ut, from a – b might not allow
ibogaine
to eliminate withdrawal signs as well. As with everything, this is a very
patient-to-patient response. And, of course the dose and dose regimen of
ibogaine plays an effect as well. It would be interesting to see the results
of
research in this area but, I don’t anticipate that will be some time soon or
possibly ever.

By the way, what is your first language?

Howard

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From: raven <raven@darkwingbird.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Voting for Kerry?
Date: July 19, 2004 at 2:31:07 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Bush or Kerry? Is that really the question? How about, as Jefferson once said, our “reserving the sacred right of revolution?”

I certainly don’t wish to see Bush regain the White House. However, I don’t wish to see Kerry in that position either. I am against Kerry no less than I am against Bush. As Nader has said…if you vote the lesser of two evils, at the end of the day, you still end up with evil. It is a monumental foolishness to think that Kerry will somehow make things even a little better. He is merely the other side of the same coin, and part of the “skull-and-bones-freemason-kill-committee.” Who we vote for, as demonstrated in the last election, is essentially irrelevant. Thus, I will make a prediction. If Kerry wins, there will be the usual celebratory nonsense on the left side of the spectrum and a bout of doldrums on the right. The left-wing will then draw their collective hand across their brow, wringing away the beads of sweat, breathing out a raspy “whew,” feeling as though they saved the country from a close one. Nothing, however, could be further from the truth.

The image of the beast has been slowly and carefully crafted and presented…BUSH IS AN UNHINGED THREAT TO THE ENTIRE WORLD (and he is). If Bush wins, the entire world will likely be plunged into further war and chaos. If Kerry wins, there will be a great deal of hand-wringing, posturing, and agonizing over the “need” to go to war to “defend our country,” etc., but the entire world will, more than likely, still be plunged into further war and chaos…all for good reason, of course…a new “terrorist” attack, or sabre-rattling from <pick your enemy who lives over oil or other lucrative natural resource>. It might not be next month or next year, but this is a long-haul campaign against the human mind…all the weapons are in place, and a few good men have their fingers on the triggers. You’re a slave, Neo!

When, in the course of human events, both sides of a two party system have connived, murdered, manipulated, and destroyed everything in their paths to obtain and secure power, can the toothless words of a formerly free people really make a difference? “Four legs good…two legs better.” The pigs are in the house. Amerika’s been took!

Perhaps it is high time for liberty to be renewed by the blood of her martyrs.
Where is the ballot? I cast my vote for revolution.

RickV

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From: “Randy Hencken” <randyhencken@hotmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Voting for Kerry?
Date: July 19, 2004 at 1:37:04 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This links title may be say it the best:

http://www.johnkerryisadouchebagbutimvotingforhimanyway.com/

~RH

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] sitter
Date: July 19, 2004 at 12:20:08 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

make sure to have at least call an experienced and knowledgeable person and
see if they don’t mind being ‘put on notice’ and ‘on call’ for the session
in case anything comes up, perhaps a gift could show appreciation for them
taking the time.<M

Got that covered, but the loved  one will be doing the main part of the
sitting, with the provider only around the first few hours, then on call.
Peace,
Preston (at least, this is how I understand things to be shaping up.)

—– Original Message —–
From: iboga@ziplip.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 10:57 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] sitter

I’ve not done, nor would I recommend especially on first dose, but if
cornered into that would make sure to have at least call an experienced and
knowledgeable person and see if they don’t mind being ‘put on notice’ and
‘on call’ for the session in case anything comes up, perhaps a gift could
show appreciation for them taking the time.  Or else what is going to do,
call an ambulace if anything (define anything.) comes up?

—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: 19 Jul 04, 2:48 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Nicotine, voting and ibogaine too
Preston wrote”has anyone had a relative act as a sitter?” I’d like to know
too. How bout one who is a nurse practioner?    Randy

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] (still OT) Re: [ibogaine] Nicotine, voting and ibogaine too
Date: July 19, 2004 at 12:13:25 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

disregard the email address (cs.com) at the top of the essasy- it’s an old,
no-good one any more.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 10:39 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] (OT) Re: [ibogaine] Nicotine, voting and ibogaine too

Jim Hadey wrote >The rifle they say was used to kill MLK was never checked
for balistics.  Isn’t that the first thing they are suppose to do?  James
Earl Ray did not kill MLK.  He spoke with MLK’s wife and told her he did
not
do it and she believed him.<

I followed this story quite closely for a short time Jim, and have met
William Pepper, the man who wrote Orders to Kill, one of the very best
books
about the MLK assassination.
I totally agree with you that James Earl Ray did not shoot MLK, and
suspect
the same is true for many of the other big time assassinations, such as
both
the Kennedy brothers, that the powers that be decided to blame Sirhan and
LHO. Sirhan was the toughest one, in that he did actually do some shooting
in front of a lot of people- but there were apparently way too many bullet
holes in the walls, ceiling and other people, equaling more holes than
there
were bullets in Sirhan’s pistol. But I do think there was someone else
involved, especially since the hole in the back of his head, behind his
ear,
would have been a trick shot worthy of Annie Oakly, as Sirhan never got
behind or close enough to do the damage in that particular wound with his
pistol.
Anyway, I forward the below essay just for entertainment and educational
purposes, though it has not one iota do to with Ibogaine.

http://www.disinfo.com/archive/pages/dossier/id234/pg1/

king’s killers still at large!
by Preston Peet (ptpeet@cs.com) – January 21, 2002

On Wednesday 8 December 1999, a jury of six whites and six blacks in
Tennessee’s Shelby County District Court took three hours to find that
Martin Luther King Jr. was murdered by conspiracy, not by a lone-nut
assassin. But the US government will file no charges.
Thirty-one years after MLK Jr. was shot in the face standing on a Memphis
hotel balcony, it is too late for James Earl Ray. He died in prison from
Hepatitis C in 1998. Ray was accused of shooting King from a nearby
bathroom
window, with an incriminating bundle containing a rifle of Ray’s and lots
of
his finger prints found nearby immediately after the assassination. Ray
initially plead guilty, but recanted three days after being sentenced to
99
years in prison, spending the next 30 years pleading his innocence.
On Thursday 16 December 1993, Lloyd Jowers confessed on ABC TV’s Prime
Time
Live news program that: he had hired the shooter to kill MLK; that the
shooter was not James Earl Ray; and that a ‘friend’ gave him the rifle
along
with the $100,000 to pay for the killing. The King family sued Jowers,
former owner of Jim’s Grill, and ‘unnamed conspirators’ for wrongful
death,
seeking just $100, and a conspiracy finding, both of which the jury
awarded
them at the conclusion of the three week trial.
Not that this recent trial would have helped Ray anyway. The Justice
Department under Janet Reno had been conducting a fifteen-month
investigation of the assassination since August 1998.
Former Deputy Attorney General Eric Holder told Reuters newswire (9
December
1999) that the investigation should be completed within weeks, and that
the
results would be made public. “I would not want people to think that on
the
basis of the work that we have done that there is the likelihood of any
kind
of criminal trial. I would not expect that there will be any criminal
prosecution out of our report.”
Representative John Lewis (D-Georgia) told WSB-TV in Atlanta that he would
ask both President Clinton and Attorney General Janet Reno for another
investigation of the 1968 assassination.
William F. Pepper, author of Orders to Kill: The Truth Behind the Murder
of
Martin Luther King Jr. (New York: Warner Books, 1995), an incredible book
on
the MLK assassination, has been investigating the killing since he first
interviewed Ray in prison in 1978. After trying in vain for years to
obtain
a new trial for Ray, Pepper eventually came to represent the King family
in
this recent civil suit. Pepper told the jury that the assassination had
been
carried out as part of a large conspiracy involving the Mafia, and US
government agents, due to fears over MLK’s proposed poor people’s march on
Washington DC, and over his outspoken opposition to the Vietnam War.
Pepper
said the order to kill came from a New Orleans crime boss, as did the
money,
and that a military sniper squad was held in backup. Afterwards, the FBI,
CIA, military intelligence, the media, and government officials at every
level helped perpetuate the cover-up.
Even Jower’s lawyer told the jury that yes, they could believe that it was
a
conspiracy, but his client’s role in it was minuscule. Jury member David
Morphy told the Associated Press syndicate that “We all thought it was a
cut
and dried case, with the evidence that Pepper brought forth that there
were
a lot of people involved, everyone from the CIA, military involvement in
it–Jowers was involved in it, we felt.”
The US government and the mainstream media are already putting a spin on
the
trial’s results. After eight refusals to hear evidence to Ray’s possible
innocence over the last thirty years, now that he is dead, why should a
jury
decision declaring his innocence change anything?

snip-

Lots and lots of links follow this essay at the URL, as well as imbedded
within the text itself, but I’ve plain texted this post to the list, so
you
must go to the URL to read them all.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 12:16 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Nicotine, voting and ibogaine too

Hi Peet,

I know the feeling, when a person comes here from another country they
vote
for who they think is the best man for the job.  We Americans vote for who
f***up the least.

One guy mentioned that both Bush and Kerry are both skull and bones, so in
Chaney and several other members of the dream team.  Strange how they take
15 new guys in their club a year and so many end up running the country.

IMHO, I think we will always have a two party system.  Sure a few
independents but big deal.  You basically got a choice between Democrat
and
Republican and it will most like always be like that, for a long time
anyway.

Ok, here is my reason why.  With a two party system it really is all the
same.  Oh yea, they try to sound different but life goes on, the same old
shit.  I am sure you know that it is the New World Order that runs things
like the TLC and CFR and the big money people, Rockerfeller, Chase
Manhatten, Vanderbuilts, big business, etc.  Now, the VERY rich gives to
both parties, therefore controling both parties.  Before a senator becomes
a
senator they are bought and paid for several times over.  It is far better
to have two parties and give to both of them then have three parties and
give to all of them or four parties or five.  They keep it at two so it is
nice and easy to control.  If you want to run you need money.  Those with
the money decide who will run.  The winner does what he is told and tows
the
line.  I really was surprised when skull and bones was mentioned.  How
come
you seldom here about it on the regu! lar news like ABC, NBC, CBS etc.
1984
is here and has been here.  They put it here so quietly most people do not
even know it.  Now with information sharing they will be able to put your
master card or  visa info and tell what you bought, when you bought it and
know most everything about you if your important.  They have a thing
called
echolon (sp) where every fax, every phone call, evey e-mail is all
captured
on their giant computer.  I know it sounds hard to believe but it is true.
Years ago the phone company had a system that would monitor or record
conversations if a key word was used like coke, heroin, uranium and things
like that.  A story that I read delt with a conversation between two girls
who were talking and one said to the other my brother bombed on stage last
night.  Well the word bombed set off the recorder and believe it or not
the
FBI checked it out by going to the girls house and started asking
questions.

This is nothing new.  J. Edgar Hoover bugged the phone of all the top
movie
stars like Frank Sinatra, Sammy Davis, Marilyn Monroe, Mickey Mantle, MLK
,
all the anti vietnam movement people and many movie stars, baseball
players
and anyone of importance.  They we doing it in the 50’s and 60’s, just
think
of what they must be doing now.  They even told JFK to be carefull because
he and Sam Giacanna (mafia boss in Chicago) were making it with the same
chick.  For all practical purposes we live in a communist or totalistic
society and most people do not know it.

The rifle they say was used to kill MLK was never checked for balistics.
Isn’t that the first thing they are suppose to do?  James Earl Ray did not
kill MLK.  He spoke with MLK’s wife and told her he did not do it and she
believed him.  Now they are going to come out with a final, end of the
story, case closed report saying Oswald was the lone assassen who killed
JFK.  America is no longer the land of the free, it puts more of it’s
citizens in jail than any other country including China or Russia.
President Johnson said he never believed the Warren Comission report from
the first day it came out.  I heard him say it.  Yea, he bugged the White
House as did Kennedy and Nixon.

But of all the leaders of this country I believe Bush is the dumbest and
most evil.  God does not speak to him it is the devil telling him he is
God
and Bush believes it – COL – crying out loud.  I think the fix is in, it
is
a one world, NWO, United Nations run world.  But they did not say that on
TV
so most people do not know it.  You can vote for whoever you want but it
will be business as usual.

Anyway, may I ask if you found a lawyer?  You were saying you were
thinking
about getting one but could not afford one.  Just hoping you found a good
one and get your disability.  Sounds like you have been over some of the
same rough roads as the rest of us and I wish you the best, let me know
how
your doing every now and then.  By the way did you know Chaney got 5
deferals from Vietnam.  Yea, he is all for was as long as the bullets are
not fired at him.  At least Kerry went to Vietnam, did his time, then told
the truth that we should of never been over there.  But it was good that
we
did go to Vietnam because while it did not appear in the news media,
Vietnam
had weapons of mass destruction and was planning on attacking the U.S.  We
stopped them in the nick of time and made the world a safer place.

Take care,

– JIM

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
And Preston … this, “I’m not voting for Kerry! I’m voting my
conscience!” thing you got goin’ on. LoOk, what does politics have to
do with having a conscience!?!?! Nothing! Nada. Completely
incompatible concepts. If I wuz gonna vote my conscience I’d be voting
Libertarian; but, the very HEART, the CORE, the center so to speak, of
being a Libertarian is pragmatism. Which means even Libertarians
aren’t gonna be voting Libertarian this time around.<

Sorry, I’m not voting for any warmongers any longer, no matter what.
I’m in the Preston Peet party I guess. We’re still an undecided party, but
we love a lot of people genuinely.
Other than for that, I’m sure Kerry is a neato peachy keen kinda guy, but
nope, no can do.
That I couldn’t live with, knowing I’d again voted for someone because,
well
heck, they slightly less worse than Bush.
That totally sucks.
And the whole “god wants me to kill you with my smoke,” thing, me too,
hadn’t had that occur to me before- what the heck, god made me do it.
Now I’m going to go shoot some virtual people in the virtual face and
lotsa
other body parts in my latest new warmongering videogame.
On a completely unrelated note, and on topic too, I’m getting more
excited about an approaching date, whereby I’ll get to finally, after
years
of hemming and hawing and wondering and debating, ingest this interesting
African root thing. Nuff said, opther than that I can then subscribe to
the
other ibogaine list too. What fun, what joy, what nervousness, what an
absolute need and want.
Has anyone had a loved one act as sitter? How’d it go if so?

Peace,
preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Patrick K. Kroupa”
To:
Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2004 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Nicotine

On Jul 18, 2004, at 6:24 PM, Carla Barnes wrote:

Patrick and Preston, love both of you but as someone
who used to smoke, then stopped, it is very annoying.
Not telling either one of you what you should do
but…… and its not healthy 🙂

Well … PERHAPS if you are indeed so chronically sensitized to
cigarette smoke; we are merely resonating with Universal Harmony —
because God wants to Kill You, and remove your genetic material from
the current revision level of Consensual Reality(TM). Please don’t
take it personally, we are just humble servants to Great Forces.
Sorry, your immune system is not compatible with Kali Yuga … buh-bye!

And Preston … this, “I’m not voting for Kerry! I’m voting my
conscience!” thing you got goin’ on. LoOk, what does politics have to
! ; do with having a conscience!?!?! Nothing! Nada. Completely
incompatible concepts. If I wuz gonna vote my conscience I’d be voting
Libertarian; but, the very HEART, the CORE, the center so to speak, of
being a Libertarian is pragmatism. Which means even Libertarians
aren’t gonna be voting Libertarian this time around.

Kerry sucks; whoopsie, no, wait, I meant to say: FILLS me with BELIEF
in the AmerikKkan System! God Bless us All, everyonE. But, uhm, aside
from that War on Us, erm, Drugs, thing … I mean, Bush sucks more.

Dana, explain everything … You can handle it, :

Patrick

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] reduce consumption
Date: July 19, 2004 at 12:11:07 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I started to wake up soaked with sweat in the morning,freezing cold, and
I’m dead sick  For all the males out there, I’m experiencing the tell tale
sign which are those nasty wet dreams that you don’t remember but you wake
up all sticky, please tell me I’m not the only one!<

Ugh! I hate those “dreams” as they are so rarely involving actual sex- too
often they involve either my hitting the crack stem (and I’ve not smoked
crack for nearly a decade now) or shooting up, or talking to someone, or
walking down the street. Almost never do they involve sex, as noted, which
always leaves me feeling weird, and sticky.

As I woke up this morning it was more evident that ever that by Tuesday
afternoon I’m going to be a disaster, so I can only imagine how much of a
mess I’m gonna be by Thursday morning. So my question is if I’m already dead
sick unable to control any of my body functions, which is quite possible,
and more likely that not, will I have a harder time keeping down the ibo and
will I be more predisposed to vomiting when they give me the ibo?<

Jesus christ, you’ve got major guts Mark. I am wishing and hoping the very
best for you, as I and I imagine so many others here can totally relate to
how you’re feeling now.

And they do say they’ll give me other drugs to “keep me comfortable” but a
shot of dope wouldn’t have straightened me out this morning so I doubt a
Valium or two will do much of anything.<

Have they told you what other drugs they’ll give you to help your comfort
levels? Why are they making you wait til Thursday if you’re getting there on
Monday? Have they explasined this to you yet? I’d love to hear the reason
for this.

Ahhh! Maybe a little pain is good and will keep the experience fresh for me
but if this morning was just a taste of whats to come I’m in for some real
hurtin.<

If it helps at all, remember that I at least will be thinking long good
thoughts in your direction until we next hear from you.
Peace, and best wishes,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: mcorcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 10:28 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] reduce consumption

Hey all. Counting the days for real now. This morning was the last Monday I
will ever be at my program. Very Liberating but a bit scary. I dropped down
10 from 100 to 90 last week and I am REALLY feeling the difference. And the
proof that its not in my head is that I’m not noticing a huge difference in
the day time but at night and the next morning its obvious. For example,  a
couple of days after my last drop, which was 5 days ago, I started to wake
up soaked with sweat in the morning,freezing cold, and I’m dead sick  For
all the males out there, I’m experiencing the tell tale sign which are those
nasty wet dreams that you don’t remember but you wake up all sticky, please
tell me I’m not the only one!
Anyway heres my question. The treatment center that I am going to is one
week long where I will drink my last dose of meth next Monday morning and
then I don’t take the Ibogaine till Thursday morning. As I woke up this
morning it was more evident that ever that by Tuesday afternoon I’m going to
be a disaster, so I can only imagine how much of a mess I’m gonna be by
Thursday morning. So my question is if I’m already dead sick unable to
control any of my body functions, which is quite possible, and more likely
that not, will I have a harder time keeping down the ibo and will I be more
predisposed to vomiting when they give me the ibo?
As anyone knows who reads my posts I’m willing to go through whatever it
takes. If they tell me to stand on my head for the first two or three days
before thats what I’m going to do. Or if they told me that they couldn’t
give me the Ibo for one reason or another after I got down there I would
obvious freak out but this means so much to me that I’d prob ably find a
good strong tree somewhere in Mexico and tie myself to it until I felt
better. Basically for me, failure is not an option. Walking back through
those doors to my program after Friday is simply not something I will allow
myself to do under any circumstances and coming back to NY before I’m
totally free from drugs is not an option either. Maybe I don’t have a
specific question but any feedback would be greatly appreciated. I just was
very concerned when I woke up this morning and now one hour after drinking
my meth I’m feeling a bit better and I know I’ll be fine in a half hou! r or
so but if I’m this sick after I wake up in the morning on as high a dose as
this when I go three days without before the ibo I just know I will be a
disaster and THAT scares me to death. It makes complete sense why they do it
that way ( they need to give me a little time for the receptors in my brain
to loosen up and unbind from the meth) And they do say they’ll give me other
drugs to “keep me comfortable” but a shot of dope wouldn’t have straightened
me out this morning so I doubt a Valium or two will do much of anything.
Ahhh! Maybe a little pain is good and will keep the experience fresh for me
but if this morning was just a taste of whats to come I’m in for some real
hurtin.
Thanks for listening. -M.

HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 7/19/04 4:07:29 AM, fakeplacebo@hotmail.com writes:

When someone try to quit oppiates dosage of daily consumpiton is important,
I experienced this by myself.. When I’m on high dose; while trying to
quite;
deprivation semptoms was always heavy and more painfull.

I would say that what you are saying is correct but, I would\not make it
mandatory for persons seeking ibogaine to lower their dose though most
likely it
would benefit them. Many persons on heroin who are treated tend to binge
before getting treated. That is, they increase their use. Regardless of what
they
are told. So, if you are asking me, “Will it benefit me to lower my dose of
opiates before I am treated with ibogaine”, the answer is most likely yes.
If
you are asking should ibogaine patients be required to reduce their dose of
opia! tes or be refused treatment, I would say no. Instead of remaining the
user
friendly system that it is, ibogaine would become one more punitive drug
therapy program. Patients would tend to want it less and lie about their
drug use
more. Then would you want to test them to see how much drugs they are using
from time to time? Would you punish them somehow if they are using the same
amount or using more? The last things I want to hear about ibogaine is the
same
complaints I hear about methadone clinics in that they are abusive and
disrespectful to the patient.

I have already initiated a program to offer ibogaine patients some
protection
from abuse as well as being able to offer safety guidance to providers and
will write to that issue soon.

On technical issues of withdrawal regardless of whether less is better or
not, it appears ibogaine works within tiers of drug use. From drug use
amount x
– y will make little or no difference b! ut, from a – b might not allow
ibogaine
to eliminate withdrawal signs as well. As with everything, this is a very
patient-to-patient response. And, of course the dose and dose regimen of
ibogaine plays an effect as well. It would be interesting to see the results
of
research in this area but, I don’t anticipate that will be some time soon or
possibly ever.

By the way, what is your first language?

Howard

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From: iboga@ziplip.com <iboga@ziplip.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] sitter
Date: July 19, 2004 at 10:57:01 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’ve not done, nor would I recommend especially on first dose, but if cornered into that would make sure to have at least call an experienced and knowledgeable person and see if they don’t mind being ‘put on notice’ and ‘on call’ for the session in case anything comes up, perhaps a gift could show appreciation for them taking the time.  Or else what is going to do, call an ambulace if anything (define anything.) comes up?

—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: 19 Jul 04, 2:48 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Nicotine, voting and ibogaine too
Preston wrote”has anyone had a relative act as a sitter?” I’d like to know too. How bout one who is a nurse practioner?    Randy

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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] reduce consumption
Date: July 19, 2004 at 10:47:50 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“will I have a harder time keeping down the ibo
and will I be more predisposed to vomiting when they give me the ibo?”

it is possible, but that is the problem of your provider.

From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re:
Date: July 19, 2004 at 10:43:25 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Callie,

The funny thing is I tried to put the one on the forum in my yahoo briefcase or whatever they call it and it would not let me download it if I wanted to.  However, I see the fish[1] in the windows dir and it has a different icon than the other .scr or screensavers.  I then had McAfee do a check on it and it was fine.  Just kinda strange, I’m not really worried about it.

Take care Granni;),

– JIM

CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 7/18/2004 11:56:38 PM Central Daylight Time, jimhadey3@yahoo.com writes:
I just did a check and I have a Fish[1].scr  C:\windows\Local Settings\Temporary Internet Files\Content.IE5\YTOD2TU1    8K Screen Saver    7/19/04 12:30 am

Can anyone tell me the size of their file.  And how come McAfee did not stop it.  Should I delete it?  I even did a Mcafee scan of the file and it came back no infections

Hi Jim, I do not know. I am running a scan of my puter as I write this.
Callie

Do you Yahoo!?
Vote for the stars of Yahoo!’s next ad campaign!

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] (OT) Re: [ibogaine] Nicotine, voting and ibogaine too
Date: July 19, 2004 at 10:39:57 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jim Hadey wrote >The rifle they say was used to kill MLK was never checked
for balistics.  Isn’t that the first thing they are suppose to do?  James
Earl Ray did not kill MLK.  He spoke with MLK’s wife and told her he did not
do it and she believed him.<

I followed this story quite closely for a short time Jim, and have met
William Pepper, the man who wrote Orders to Kill, one of the very best books
about the MLK assassination.
I totally agree with you that James Earl Ray did not shoot MLK, and suspect
the same is true for many of the other big time assassinations, such as both
the Kennedy brothers, that the powers that be decided to blame Sirhan and
LHO. Sirhan was the toughest one, in that he did actually do some shooting
in front of a lot of people- but there were apparently way too many bullet
holes in the walls, ceiling and other people, equaling more holes than there
were bullets in Sirhan’s pistol. But I do think there was someone else
involved, especially since the hole in the back of his head, behind his ear,
would have been a trick shot worthy of Annie Oakly, as Sirhan never got
behind or close enough to do the damage in that particular wound with his
pistol.
Anyway, I forward the below essay just for entertainment and educational
purposes, though it has not one iota do to with Ibogaine.

http://www.disinfo.com/archive/pages/dossier/id234/pg1/

king’s killers still at large!
by Preston Peet (ptpeet@cs.com) – January 21, 2002

On Wednesday 8 December 1999, a jury of six whites and six blacks in
Tennessee’s Shelby County District Court took three hours to find that
Martin Luther King Jr. was murdered by conspiracy, not by a lone-nut
assassin. But the US government will file no charges.
Thirty-one years after MLK Jr. was shot in the face standing on a Memphis
hotel balcony, it is too late for James Earl Ray. He died in prison from
Hepatitis C in 1998. Ray was accused of shooting King from a nearby bathroom
window, with an incriminating bundle containing a rifle of Ray’s and lots of
his finger prints found nearby immediately after the assassination. Ray
initially plead guilty, but recanted three days after being sentenced to 99
years in prison, spending the next 30 years pleading his innocence.
On Thursday 16 December 1993, Lloyd Jowers confessed on ABC TV’s Prime Time
Live news program that: he had hired the shooter to kill MLK; that the
shooter was not James Earl Ray; and that a ‘friend’ gave him the rifle along
with the $100,000 to pay for the killing. The King family sued Jowers,
former owner of Jim’s Grill, and ‘unnamed conspirators’ for wrongful death,
seeking just $100, and a conspiracy finding, both of which the jury awarded
them at the conclusion of the three week trial.
Not that this recent trial would have helped Ray anyway. The Justice
Department under Janet Reno had been conducting a fifteen-month
investigation of the assassination since August 1998.
Former Deputy Attorney General Eric Holder told Reuters newswire (9 December
1999) that the investigation should be completed within weeks, and that the
results would be made public. “I would not want people to think that on the
basis of the work that we have done that there is the likelihood of any kind
of criminal trial. I would not expect that there will be any criminal
prosecution out of our report.”
Representative John Lewis (D-Georgia) told WSB-TV in Atlanta that he would
ask both President Clinton and Attorney General Janet Reno for another
investigation of the 1968 assassination.
William F. Pepper, author of Orders to Kill: The Truth Behind the Murder of
Martin Luther King Jr. (New York: Warner Books, 1995), an incredible book on
the MLK assassination, has been investigating the killing since he first
interviewed Ray in prison in 1978. After trying in vain for years to obtain
a new trial for Ray, Pepper eventually came to represent the King family in
this recent civil suit. Pepper told the jury that the assassination had been
carried out as part of a large conspiracy involving the Mafia, and US
government agents, due to fears over MLK’s proposed poor people’s march on
Washington DC, and over his outspoken opposition to the Vietnam War. Pepper
said the order to kill came from a New Orleans crime boss, as did the money,
and that a military sniper squad was held in backup. Afterwards, the FBI,
CIA, military intelligence, the media, and government officials at every
level helped perpetuate the cover-up.
Even Jower’s lawyer told the jury that yes, they could believe that it was a
conspiracy, but his client’s role in it was minuscule. Jury member David
Morphy told the Associated Press syndicate that “We all thought it was a cut
and dried case, with the evidence that Pepper brought forth that there were
a lot of people involved, everyone from the CIA, military involvement in
it–Jowers was involved in it, we felt.”
The US government and the mainstream media are already putting a spin on the
trial’s results. After eight refusals to hear evidence to Ray’s possible
innocence over the last thirty years, now that he is dead, why should a jury
decision declaring his innocence change anything?

snip-

Lots and lots of links follow this essay at the URL, as well as imbedded
within the text itself, but I’ve plain texted this post to the list, so you
must go to the URL to read them all.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 12:16 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Nicotine, voting and ibogaine too

Hi Peet,

I know the feeling, when a person comes here from another country they vote
for who they think is the best man for the job.  We Americans vote for who
f***up the least.

One guy mentioned that both Bush and Kerry are both skull and bones, so in
Chaney and several other members of the dream team.  Strange how they take
15 new guys in their club a year and so many end up running the country.

IMHO, I think we will always have a two party system.  Sure a few
independents but big deal.  You basically got a choice between Democrat and
Republican and it will most like always be like that, for a long time
anyway.

Ok, here is my reason why.  With a two party system it really is all the
same.  Oh yea, they try to sound different but life goes on, the same old
shit.  I am sure you know that it is the New World Order that runs things
like the TLC and CFR and the big money people, Rockerfeller, Chase
Manhatten, Vanderbuilts, big business, etc.  Now, the VERY rich gives to
both parties, therefore controling both parties.  Before a senator becomes a
senator they are bought and paid for several times over.  It is far better
to have two parties and give to both of them then have three parties and
give to all of them or four parties or five.  They keep it at two so it is
nice and easy to control.  If you want to run you need money.  Those with
the money decide who will run.  The winner does what he is told and tows the
line.  I really was surprised when skull and bones was mentioned.  How come
you seldom here about it on the regu! lar news like ABC, NBC, CBS etc.  1984
is here and has been here.  They put it here so quietly most people do not
even know it.  Now with information sharing they will be able to put your
master card or  visa info and tell what you bought, when you bought it and
know most everything about you if your important.  They have a thing called
echolon (sp) where every fax, every phone call, evey e-mail is all captured
on their giant computer.  I know it sounds hard to believe but it is true.
Years ago the phone company had a system that would monitor or record
conversations if a key word was used like coke, heroin, uranium and things
like that.  A story that I read delt with a conversation between two girls
who were talking and one said to the other my brother bombed on stage last
night.  Well the word bombed set off the recorder and believe it or not the
FBI checked it out by going to the girls house and started asking questions.

This is nothing new.  J. Edgar Hoover bugged the phone of all the top movie
stars like Frank Sinatra, Sammy Davis, Marilyn Monroe, Mickey Mantle, MLK ,
all the anti vietnam movement people and many movie stars, baseball players
and anyone of importance.  They we doing it in the 50’s and 60’s, just think
of what they must be doing now.  They even told JFK to be carefull because
he and Sam Giacanna (mafia boss in Chicago) were making it with the same
chick.  For all practical purposes we live in a communist or totalistic
society and most people do not know it.

The rifle they say was used to kill MLK was never checked for balistics.
Isn’t that the first thing they are suppose to do?  James Earl Ray did not
kill MLK.  He spoke with MLK’s wife and told her he did not do it and she
believed him.  Now they are going to come out with a final, end of the
story, case closed report saying Oswald was the lone assassen who killed
JFK.  America is no longer the land of the free, it puts more of it’s
citizens in jail than any other country including China or Russia.
President Johnson said he never believed the Warren Comission report from
the first day it came out.  I heard him say it.  Yea, he bugged the White
House as did Kennedy and Nixon.

But of all the leaders of this country I believe Bush is the dumbest and
most evil.  God does not speak to him it is the devil telling him he is God
and Bush believes it – COL – crying out loud.  I think the fix is in, it is
a one world, NWO, United Nations run world.  But they did not say that on TV
so most people do not know it.  You can vote for whoever you want but it
will be business as usual.

Anyway, may I ask if you found a lawyer?  You were saying you were thinking
about getting one but could not afford one.  Just hoping you found a good
one and get your disability.  Sounds like you have been over some of the
same rough roads as the rest of us and I wish you the best, let me know how
your doing every now and then.  By the way did you know Chaney got 5
deferals from Vietnam.  Yea, he is all for was as long as the bullets are
not fired at him.  At least Kerry went to Vietnam, did his time, then told
the truth that we should of never been over there.  But it was good that we
did go to Vietnam because while it did not appear in the news media, Vietnam
had weapons of mass destruction and was planning on attacking the U.S.  We
stopped them in the nick of time and made the world a safer place.

Take care,

– JIM

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
And Preston … this, “I’m not voting for Kerry! I’m voting my
conscience!” thing you got goin’ on. LoOk, what does politics have to
do with having a conscience!?!?! Nothing! Nada. Completely
incompatible concepts. If I wuz gonna vote my conscience I’d be voting
Libertarian; but, the very HEART, the CORE, the center so to speak, of
being a Libertarian is pragmatism. Which means even Libertarians
aren’t gonna be voting Libertarian this time around.<

Sorry, I’m not voting for any warmongers any longer, no matter what.
I’m in the Preston Peet party I guess. We’re still an undecided party, but
we love a lot of people genuinely.
Other than for that, I’m sure Kerry is a neato peachy keen kinda guy, but
nope, no can do.
That I couldn’t live with, knowing I’d again voted for someone because, well
heck, they slightly less worse than Bush.
That totally sucks.
And the whole “god wants me to kill you with my smoke,” thing, me too,
hadn’t had that occur to me before- what the heck, god made me do it.
Now I’m going to go shoot some virtual people in the virtual face and lotsa
other body parts in my latest new warmongering videogame.
On a completely unrelated note, and on topic too, I’m getting more
excited about an approaching date, whereby I’ll get to finally, after years
of hemming and hawing and wondering and debating, ingest this interesting
African root thing. Nuff said, opther than that I can then subscribe to the
other ibogaine list too. What fun, what joy, what nervousness, what an
absolute need and want.
Has anyone had a loved one act as sitter? How’d it go if so?

Peace,
preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Patrick K. Kroupa”
To:
Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2004 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Nicotine

On Jul 18, 2004, at 6:24 PM, Carla Barnes wrote:

Patrick and Preston, love both of you but as someone
who used to smoke, then stopped, it is very annoying.
Not telling either one of you what you should do
but…… and its not healthy 🙂

Well … PERHAPS if you are indeed so chronically sensitized to
cigarette smoke; we are merely resonating with Universal Harmony —
because God wants to Kill You, and remove your genetic material from
the current revision level of Consensual Reality(TM). Please don’t
take it personally, we are just humble servants to Great Forces.
Sorry, your immune system is not compatible with Kali Yuga … buh-bye!

And Preston … this, “I’m not voting for Kerry! I’m voting my
conscience!” thing you got goin’ on. LoOk, what does politics have to
! ; do with having a conscience!?!?! Nothing! Nada. Completely
incompatible concepts. If I wuz gonna vote my conscience I’d be voting
Libertarian; but, the very HEART, the CORE, the center so to speak, of
being a Libertarian is pragmatism. Which means even Libertarians
aren’t gonna be voting Libertarian this time around.

Kerry sucks; whoopsie, no, wait, I meant to say: FILLS me with BELIEF
in the AmerikKkan System! God Bless us All, everyonE. But, uhm, aside
from that War on Us, erm, Drugs, thing … I mean, Bush sucks more.

Dana, explain everything … You can handle it, :

Patrick

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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] reduce consumption
Date: July 19, 2004 at 10:28:37 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey all. Counting the days for real now. This morning was the last Monday I will ever be at my program. Very Liberating but a bit scary. I dropped down 10 from 100 to 90 last week and I am REALLY feeling the difference. And the proof that its not in my head is that I’m not noticing a huge difference in the day time but at night and the next morning its obvious. For example,  a couple of days after my last drop, which was 5 days ago, I started to wake up soaked with sweat in the morning,freezing cold, and I’m dead sick  For all the males out there, I’m experiencing the tell tale sign which are those nasty wet dreams that you don’t remember but you wake up all sticky, please tell me I’m not the only one!
Anyway heres my question. The treatment center that I am going to is one week long where I will drink my last dose of meth next Monday morning and then I don’t take the Ibogaine till Thursday morning. As I woke up this morning it was more evident that ever that by Tuesday afternoon I’m going to be a disaster, so I can only imagine how much of a mess I’m gonna be by Thursday morning. So my question is if I’m already dead sick unable to control any of my body functions, which is quite possible, and more likely that not, will I have a harder time keeping down the ibo and will I be more predisposed to vomiting when they give me the ibo?
As anyone knows who reads my posts I’m willing to go through whatever it takes. If they tell me to stand on my head for the first two or three days before thats what I’m going to do. Or if they told me that they couldn’t give me the Ibo for one reason or another after I got down there I would obvious freak out but this means so much to me that I’d prob ably find a good strong tree somewhere in Mexico and tie myself to it until I felt better. Basically for me, failure is not an option. Walking back through those doors to my program after Friday is simply not something I will allow myself to do under any circumstances and coming back to NY before I’m totally free from drugs is not an option either. Maybe I don’t have a specific question but any feedback would be greatly appreciated. I just was very concerned when I woke up this morning and now one hour after drinking my meth I’m feeling a bit better and I know I’ll be fine in a half hour or so but if I’m this sick after I wake up in the morning on as high a dose as this when I go three days without before the ibo I just know I will be a disaster and THAT scares me to death. It makes complete sense why they do it that way ( they need to give me a little time for the receptors in my brain to loosen up and unbind from the meth) And they do say they’ll give me other drugs to “keep me comfortable” but a shot of dope wouldn’t have straightened me out this morning so I doubt a Valium or two will do much of anything. Ahhh! Maybe a little pain is good and will keep the experience fresh for me but if this morning was just a taste of whats to come I’m in for some real hurtin.
Thanks for listening. -M.

HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 7/19/04 4:07:29 AM, fakeplacebo@hotmail.com writes:

>When someone try to quit oppiates dosage of daily consumpiton is important,
>I experienced this by myself.. When I’m on high dose; while trying to quite;
>deprivation semptoms was always heavy and more painfull.

I would say that what you are saying is correct but, I would\not make it
mandatory for persons seeking ibogaine to lower their dose though most likely it
would benefit them. Many persons on heroin who are treated tend to binge
before getting treated. That is, they increase their use. Regardless of what they
are told. So, if you are asking me, “Will it benefit me to lower my dose of
opiates before I am treated with ibogaine”, the answer is most likely yes. If
you are asking should ibogaine patients be required to reduce their dose of
opiates or be refused treatment, I would say no. Instead of remaining the user
friendly system that it is, ibogaine would become one more punitive drug
therapy program. Patients would tend to want it less and lie about their drug use
more. Then would you want to test them to see how much drugs they are using
from time to time? Would you punish them somehow if they are using the same
amount or using more? The last things I want to hear about ibogaine is the same
complaints I hear about methadone clinics in that they are abusive and
disrespectful to the patient.

I have already initiated a program to offer ibogaine patients some protection
from abuse as well as being able to offer safety guidance to providers and
will write to that issue soon.

On technical issues of withdrawal regardless of whether less is better or
not, it appears ibogaine works within tiers of drug use. From drug use amount x
– y will make little or no difference but, from a – b might not allow ibogaine
to eliminate withdrawal signs as well. As with everything, this is a very
patient-to-patient response. And, of course the dose and dose regimen of
ibogaine plays an effect as well. It would be interesting to see the results of
research in this area but, I don’t anticipate that will be some time soon or
possibly ever.

By the way, what is your first language?

Howard

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] reduce consumption
Date: July 19, 2004 at 8:34:54 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/19/04 4:07:29 AM, fakeplacebo@hotmail.com writes:

When someone  try to quit oppiates dosage of daily consumpiton is important,
I experienced this by myself.. When I’m on high dose; while trying to quite;
deprivation semptoms was always heavy and more painfull.

I would say that what you are saying is correct but, I would not make it
mandatory for persons seeking ibogaine to lower their dose though most likely it
would benefit them.  Many persons on heroin who are treated tend to binge
before getting treated.  That is, they increase their use.  Regardless of what they
are told.  So, if you are asking me, “Will it benefit me to lower my dose of
opiates before I am treated with ibogaine”, the answer is most likely yes.  If
you are asking should ibogaine patients be required to reduce their dose of
opiates or be refused treatment, I would say no.  Instead of remaining the user
friendly system that it is, ibogaine would become one more punitive drug
therapy program.  Patients would tend to want it less and lie about their drug use
more. Then would you want to test them to see how much drugs they are using
from time to time? Would you punish them somehow if they are using the same
amount or using more? The last things I want to hear about ibogaine is the same
complaints I hear about methadone clinics in that they are abusive and
disrespectful to the patient.

I have already initiated a program to offer ibogaine patients some protection
from abuse as well as being able to offer safety guidance to providers and
will write to that issue soon.

On technical issues of withdrawal regardless of whether less is better or
not, it appears ibogaine works within tiers of drug use.  From drug use amount x
– y will make little or no difference but, from a – b might not allow ibogaine
to eliminate withdrawal signs as well.  As with everything, this is a very
patient-to-patient response.  And, of course the dose and dose regimen of
ibogaine plays an effect as well.    It would be interesting to see the results of
research in this area but, I don’t anticipate that will be some time soon or
possibly ever.

By the way, what is your first language?

Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Nicotine, voting and ibogaine too
Date: July 19, 2004 at 5:47:51 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston wrote”has anyone had a relative act as a sitter?” I’d like to know too. How bout one who is a nurse practioner?    Randy

From: “FakePlacebo” <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] reduce consumption
Date: July 19, 2004 at 5:06:11 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Mr. Howard,

First, thank you for answered me. As always happens before it’s very hard to
explain my opinion in English; thanks for your patient and I’m sory about
that. (but my english is emproving by the time specialy while I’m trying to
understand mails on the Iboga list and information about Iboga. I can be the
first person that who learned english assistance of Iboga)

When someone  try to quit oppiates dosage of daily consumpiton is important,
I experienced this by myself.. When I’m on high dose; while trying to quite;
deprivation semptoms was always heavy and more painfull.

Best Regards
FakePLacebo

—– Original Message —–
From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 11:13 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] reduce consumption

In a message dated 7/19/04 2:43:39 AM, fakeplacebo@hotmail.com writes:

<< If you let me ask you something; I want to learn about that if there is
any relation between success of Iboga treatment and dosage of daily opiate
consumption or not. If there is addicts have to reduce dosage before
starting Iboga
treatment; is this correct?  >>

I haven’t seen enough data to determine if there is a relationship between
success of ibogaine/iboga treatment and dosage of daily opiate
consumption.  By
reduction of dose do you include everything from a 2mg drop or a 5mg drop
in a
person on 100mgs or does the drop have to be significant 50mg or 90mg in a
subject formerly taking 100mg/day?

So first we need both more data on the drop in opiates and more
information
as to what you mean on the first question.

On the second question, I would not suggest that any bar to treatment be
determined on a subject having to lower their dose of opiates.  I mean it
might be
nice and less costly to the subject and the provider but, I would rather
see
the ibogaine treatment system remain open and not begin to punitive and
demanding like the methadone clinic system.

And, what do you mean by success?

Thanks

Howard

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] reduce consumption
Date: July 19, 2004 at 4:13:45 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/19/04 2:43:39 AM, fakeplacebo@hotmail.com writes:

<< If you let me ask you something; I want to learn about that if there is
any relation between success of Iboga treatment and dosage of daily opiate
consumption or not. If there is addicts have to reduce dosage before starting Iboga
treatment; is this correct?  >>

I haven’t seen enough data to determine if there is a relationship between
success of ibogaine/iboga treatment and dosage of daily opiate consumption.  By
reduction of dose do you include everything from a 2mg drop or a 5mg drop in a
person on 100mgs or does the drop have to be significant 50mg or 90mg in a
subject formerly taking 100mg/day?

So first we need both more data on the drop in opiates and more information
as to what you mean on the first question.

On the second question, I would not suggest that any bar to treatment be
determined on a subject having to lower their dose of opiates.  I mean it might be
nice and less costly to the subject and the provider but, I would rather see
the ibogaine treatment system remain open and not begin to punitive and
demanding like the methadone clinic system.

And, what do you mean by success?

Thanks

Howard

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From: “FakePlacebo” <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] reduce consumption
Date: July 19, 2004 at 3:42:31 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Mr. Howard,
If you let me ask you something; I want to learn about that if there is any relation between sucess of Iboga treatment and dosage of daily oppiate consumption or not. If there is addicts have to reduce dosage before starting Iboga treatment; is this correct?

With My Best Regards
FakePlacebo

From: “booker w” <swbooker@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Nicotine, voting and ibogaine too
Date: July 19, 2004 at 2:21:59 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Preston.

>     Has anyone had a loved one act as sitter? How’d it go if so?
If you are referring to a “significant other” I haven’t, but had “loved ones” as in very good friends sit twice and it was very comforting,  – no doubt more comfortable than my first trip with someone I didn’t know well.  However, looking back, I think a “real guide” is probably the most wise for a first try since I think my friends would’ve been sort of nervous as they didn’t know what ibogaine was really like, and I think I might’ve really gotten freaked myself if someone who wasn’t familiar with the substance wasn’t present.  Have I written this convoluted enough for you?
Can’t wait to hear how it goes.
Best, Sandy

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re:
Date: July 19, 2004 at 12:58:35 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/18/2004 11:56:38 PM Central Daylight Time, jimhadey3@yahoo.com writes:
I just did a check and I have a Fish[1].scr  C:\windows\Local Settings\Temporary Internet Files\Content.IE5\YTOD2TU1    8K Screen Saver    7/19/04 12:30 am

Can anyone tell me the size of their file.  And how come McAfee did not stop it.  Should I delete it?  I even did a Mcafee scan of the file and it came back no infections

Hi Jim, I do not know. I am running a scan of my puter as I write this.
Callie

From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re:
Date: July 19, 2004 at 12:54:43 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi All,

I just did a check and I have a Fish[1].scr  C:\windows\Local Settings\Temporary Internet Files\Content.IE5\YTOD2TU1    8K Screen Saver    7/19/04 12:30 am

Can anyone tell me the size of their file.  And how come McAfee did not stop it.  Should I delete it?  I even did a Mcafee scan of the file and it came back no infections.

Thanks for any help.

– JIM

brooke@blue.netnation.com wrote:
And here’s a potential spam, but I just had to share 😉

Do any of you remember way back when I tried my first ibo dose? I mentioned
that my experience resembled a trippy scene from my online series. Thought I’d
share the current vibe of things there: www.brokensaints.com

Pretty proud of it – the ‘ibogaine’ scene in the series is looking gorgeous now
that the upgrades are almost done. It’s chapter 20 in the online series, in
case you wanted to lose yourself for an hour or so.

Best and healing vibes all around

b

Quoting D H :

> Callie,
>
> you appear to be sending potential virus attachments to the list…
>
>
> On Sunday, July 18, 2004, at 01:51 PM, CallieMimosa wrote:
>
> > Predators
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > /
> > ]=———————————————————————
> > =[\
> > [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> > http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> >
> > \]=——————————————————————–
> > -=[/
>

—————————————————————-
This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Nicotine, voting and ibogaine too
Date: July 19, 2004 at 12:16:29 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Peet,

I know the feeling, when a person comes here from another country they vote for who they think is the best man for the job.  We Americans vote for who f***up the least.

One guy mentioned that both Bush and Kerry are both skull and bones, so in Chaney and several other members of the dream team.  Strange how they take 15 new guys in their club a year and so many end up running the country.

IMHO, I think we will always have a two party system.  Sure a few independents but big deal.  You basically got a choice between Democrat and Republican and it will most like always be like that, for a long time anyway.

Ok, here is my reason why.  With a two party system it really is all the same.  Oh yea, they try to sound different but life goes on, the same old shit.  I am sure you know that it is the New World Order that runs things like the TLC and CFR and the big money people, Rockerfeller, Chase Manhatten, Vanderbuilts, big business, etc.  Now, the VERY rich gives to both parties, therefore controling both parties.  Before a senator becomes a senator they are bought and paid for several times over.  It is far better to have two parties and give to both of them then have three parties and give to all of them or four parties or five.  They keep it at two so it is nice and easy to control.  If you want to run you need money.  Those with the money decide who will run.  The winner does what he is told and tows the line.  I really was surprised when skull and bones was mentioned.  How come you seldom here about it on the regular news like ABC, NBC, CBS etc.  1984 is here and has been here.  They put it here so quietly most people do not even know it.  Now with information sharing they will be able to put your master card or  visa info and tell what you bought, when you bought it and know most everything about you if your important.  They have a thing called echolon (sp) where every fax, every phone call, evey e-mail is all captured on their giant computer.  I know it sounds hard to believe but it is true.  Years ago the phone company had a system that would monitor or record conversations if a key word was used like coke, heroin, uranium and things like that.  A story that I read delt with a conversation between two girls who were talking and one said to the other my brother bombed on stage last night.  Well the word bombed set off the recorder and believe it or not the FBI checked it out by going to the girls house and started asking questions.

This is nothing new.  J. Edgar Hoover bugged the phone of all the top movie stars like Frank Sinatra, Sammy Davis, Marilyn Monroe, Mickey Mantle, MLK , all the anti vietnam movement people and many movie stars, baseball players and anyone of importance.  They we doing it in the 50’s and 60’s, just think of what they must be doing now.  They even told JFK to be carefull because he and Sam Giacanna (mafia boss in Chicago) were making it with the same chick.  For all practical purposes we live in a communist or totalistic society and most people do not know it.

The rifle they say was used to kill MLK was never checked for balistics.  Isn’t that the first thing they are suppose to do?  James Earl Ray did not kill MLK.  He spoke with MLK’s wife and told her he did not do it and she believed him.  Now they are going to come out with a final, end of the story, case closed report saying Oswald was the lone assassen who killed JFK.  America is no longer the land of the free, it puts more of it’s citizens in jail than any other country including China or Russia.  President Johnson said he never believed the Warren Comission report from the first day it came out.  I heard him say it.  Yea, he bugged the White House as did Kennedy and Nixon.

But of all the leaders of this country I believe Bush is the dumbest and most evil.  God does not speak to him it is the devil telling him he is God and Bush believes it – COL – crying out loud.  I think the fix is in, it is a one world, NWO, United Nations run world.  But they did not say that on TV so most people do not know it.  You can vote for whoever you want but it will be business as usual.

Anyway, may I ask if you found a lawyer?  You were saying you were thinking about getting one but could not afford one.  Just hoping you found a good one and get your disability.  Sounds like you have been over some of the same rough roads as the rest of us and I wish you the best, let me know how your doing every now and then.  By the way did you know Chaney got 5 deferals from Vietnam.  Yea, he is all for was as long as the bullets are not fired at him.  At least Kerry went to Vietnam, did his time, then told the truth that we should of never been over there.  But it was good that we did go to Vietnam because while it did not appear in the news media, Vietnam had weapons of mass destruction and was planning on attacking the U.S.  We stopped them in the nick of time and made the world a safer place.

Take care,

– JIM

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>And Preston … this, “I’m not voting for Kerry! I’m voting my
conscience!” thing you got goin’ on. LoOk, what does politics have to
do with having a conscience!?!?! Nothing! Nada. Completely
incompatible concepts. If I wuz gonna vote my conscience I’d be voting
Libertarian; but, the very HEART, the CORE, the center so to speak, of
being a Libertarian is pragmatism. Which means even Libertarians
aren’t gonna be voting Libertarian this time around.<

Sorry, I’m not voting for any warmongers any longer, no matter what.
I’m in the Preston Peet party I guess. We’re still an undecided party, but
we love a lot of people genuinely.
Other than for that, I’m sure Kerry is a neato peachy keen kinda guy, but
nope, no can do.
That I couldn’t live with, knowing I’d again voted for someone because, well
heck, they slightly less worse than Bush.
That totally sucks.
And the whole “god wants me to kill you with my smoke,” thing, me too,
hadn’t had that occur to me before- what the heck, god made me do it.
Now I’m going to go shoot some virtual people in the virtual face and lotsa
other body parts in my latest new warmongering videogame.
On a completely unrelated note, and on topic too, I’m getting more
excited about an approaching date, whereby I’ll get to finally, after years
of hemming and hawing and wondering and debating, ingest this interesting
African root thing. Nuff said, opther than that I can then subscribe to the
other ibogaine list too. What fun, what joy, what nervousness, what an
absolute need and want.
Has anyone had a loved one act as sitter? How’d it go if so?

Peace,
preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Patrick K. Kroupa”
To:
Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2004 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Nicotine

>
> On Jul 18, 2004, at 6:24 PM, Carla Barnes wrote:
>
> > Patrick and Preston, love both of you but as someone
> > who used to smoke, then stopped, it is very annoying.
> > Not telling either one of you what you should do
> > but…… and its not healthy 🙂
>
> Well … PERHAPS if you are indeed so chronically sensitized to
> cigarette smoke; we are merely resonating with Universal Harmony —
> because God wants to Kill You, and remove your genetic material from
> the current revision level of Consensual Reality(TM). Please don’t
> take it personally, we are just humble servants to Great Forces.
> Sorry, your immune system is not compatible with Kali Yuga … buh-bye!
>
> …
>
> And Preston … this, “I’m not voting for Kerry! I’m voting my
> conscience!” thing you got goin’ on. LoOk, what does politics have to
> do with having a conscience!?!?! Nothing! Nada. Completely
> incompatible concepts. If I wuz gonna vote my conscience I’d be voting
> Libertarian; but, the very HEART, the CORE, the center so to speak, of
> being a Libertarian is pragmatism. Which means even Libertarians
> aren’t gonna be voting Libertarian this time around.
>
> Kerry sucks; whoopsie, no, wait, I meant to say: FILLS me with BELIEF
> in the AmerikKkan System! God Bless us All, everyonE. But, uhm, aside
> from that War on Us, erm, Drugs, thing … I mean, Bush sucks more.
>
> Dana, explain everything … You can handle it, :
>
> Patrick
>
>
>
>
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> [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]
>
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>
>

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] VIRUS
Date: July 19, 2004 at 12:13:02 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I did not send those files. It must be a virus using my addy

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Nicotine, voting and ibogaine too
Date: July 18, 2004 at 9:54:30 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

And Preston … this, “I’m not voting for Kerry!  I’m voting my
conscience!” thing you got goin’ on.  LoOk, what does politics have to
do with having a conscience!?!?!  Nothing!  Nada.  Completely
incompatible concepts.  If I wuz gonna vote my conscience I’d be voting
Libertarian; but, the very HEART, the CORE, the center so to speak, of
being a Libertarian is pragmatism.  Which means even Libertarians
aren’t gonna be voting Libertarian this time around.<

Sorry, I’m not voting for any warmongers any longer, no matter what.
I’m in the Preston Peet party I guess. We’re still an undecided party, but
we love a lot of people genuinely.
Other than for that, I’m sure Kerry is a neato peachy keen kinda guy, but
nope, no can do.
That I couldn’t live with, knowing I’d again voted for someone because, well
heck, they slightly less worse than Bush.
That totally sucks.
And the whole “god wants me to kill you with my smoke,” thing, me too,
hadn’t had that occur to me before- what the heck, god made me do it.
Now I’m going to go shoot some virtual people in the virtual face and lotsa
other body parts in my latest new warmongering videogame.
On a completely unrelated note, and on topic too, I’m getting more
excited about an approaching date, whereby I’ll get to finally, after years
of hemming and hawing and wondering and debating, ingest this interesting
African root thing. Nuff said, opther than that I can then subscribe to the
other ibogaine list too. What fun, what joy, what nervousness, what an
absolute need and want.
Has anyone had a loved one act as sitter? How’d it go if so?

Peace,
preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2004 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Nicotine

On Jul 18, 2004, at 6:24 PM, Carla Barnes wrote:

Patrick and Preston, love both of you but as someone
who used to smoke, then stopped, it is very annoying.
Not telling either one of you what you should do
but…… and its not healthy 🙂

Well … PERHAPS if you are indeed so chronically sensitized to
cigarette smoke; we are merely resonating with Universal Harmony —
because God wants to Kill You, and remove your genetic material from
the current revision level of Consensual Reality(TM).  Please don’t
take it personally, we are just humble servants to Great Forces.
Sorry, your immune system is not compatible with Kali Yuga … buh-bye!

And Preston … this, “I’m not voting for Kerry!  I’m voting my
conscience!” thing you got goin’ on.  LoOk, what does politics have to
do with having a conscience!?!?!  Nothing!  Nada.  Completely
incompatible concepts.  If I wuz gonna vote my conscience I’d be voting
Libertarian; but, the very HEART, the CORE, the center so to speak, of
being a Libertarian is pragmatism.  Which means even Libertarians
aren’t gonna be voting Libertarian this time around.

Kerry sucks; whoopsie, no, wait, I meant to say: FILLS me with BELIEF
in the AmerikKkan System!  God Bless us All, everyonE.  But, uhm, aside
from that War on Us, erm, Drugs, thing … I mean, Bush sucks more.

Dana, explain everything … You can handle it, <Passing mic to Dana>:

Patrick

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Nicotine
Date: July 18, 2004 at 9:46:13 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

voting what
I felt is what got Bush in
the white house with Nader taking so much of the vote the last time.<

Except that Bush got less than 25 percent of the eligible vote last time-
less than 50 percent actually got off their fat asses and voted for anyone
last time around. Those are the people who “cost” Gore the election in my
own mind- other than for Gore himself being so lame and silly and two-faced,
and spitting as he spoke during one of the debates.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2004 6:51 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Nicotine

That’s a good answer Patrick. ‘Why do you smoke cigarettes’

‘Because god wants me to kill you’ isn’t one that’s ever come to my mind
before bro. I’ll have
to remember it 🙂

I’m voting Kerry too. I don’t want to but that’s how I feel, voting what
I felt is what got Bush in
the white house with Nader taking so much of the vote the last time.

Peace out and die
Curtis

On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 15:36:48 -0700 “Patrick K.Kroupa”
<digital@phantom.com>
wrote:
On Jul 18, 2004, at 6:24 PM, Carla Barnes wrote:

Patrick and Preston, love both of you but as someone
who used to smoke, then stopped, it is very annoying.
Not telling either one of you what you should do
but…… and its not healthy 🙂

Well … PERHAPS if you are indeed so chronically sensitized to

cigarette smoke; we are merely resonating with Universal Harmony

because God wants to Kill You, and remove your genetic material
from
the current revision level of Consensual Reality(TM).  Please don’t

take it personally, we are just humble servants to Great Forces.

Sorry, your immune system is not compatible with Kali Yuga … buh-
bye!

And Preston … this, “I’m not voting for Kerry!  I’m voting my

conscience!” thing you got goin’ on.  LoOk, what does politics have
to
do with having a conscience!?!?!  Nothing!  Nada.  Completely
incompatible concepts.  If I wuz gonna vote my conscience I’d be
voting
Libertarian; but, the very HEART, the CORE, the center so to speak,
of
being a Libertarian is pragmatism.  Which means even Libertarians

aren’t gonna be voting Libertarian this time around.

Kerry sucks; whoopsie, no, wait, I meant to say: FILLS me with BELIEF

in the AmerikKkan System!  God Bless us All, everyonE.  But, uhm,
aside
from that War on Us, erm, Drugs, thing … I mean, Bush sucks more.

Dana, explain everything … You can handle it, <Passing mic to
Dana>:

Patrick

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
http://www.hushmail.com/services-messenger?l=434

Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
http://www.hushmail.com/about-affiliate?l=427

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: brooke@blue.netnation.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re:
Date: July 18, 2004 at 8:30:02 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com, D H <dave@phantom.com>
Cc: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

And here’s a potential spam, but I just had to share  😉

Do any of you remember way back when I tried my first ibo dose?  I mentioned
that my experience resembled a trippy scene from my online series.  Thought I’d
share the current vibe of things there:  www.brokensaints.com

Pretty proud of it – the ‘ibogaine’ scene in the series is looking gorgeous now
that the upgrades are almost done.  It’s chapter 20 in the online series, in
case you wanted to lose yourself for an hour or so.

Best and healing vibes all around

b

Quoting D H <dave@phantom.com>:

Callie,

you appear to be sending potential virus attachments to the list…

On Sunday, July 18, 2004, at 01:51 PM, CallieMimosa wrote:

Predators

<Fish.scr>

/
]=———————————————————————
=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=——————————————————————–
-=[/

—————————————————————-
This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Nicotine
Date: July 18, 2004 at 7:14:34 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m voting Kerry too. I don’t want to but that’s how I feel, voting what
I felt is what got Bush in
the white house with Nader taking so much of the vote the last time.

Peace out and die
Curtis

yeah, its the less of the two evil votes. better than not voting, anyhow.

anything to get the current flavor of thugs removed from the pale horse. um, I mean house of white, er, de blanco crib.

_.dh

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re:
Date: July 18, 2004 at 7:10:35 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Callie,

you appear to be sending potential virus attachments to the list…

On Sunday, July 18, 2004, at 01:51 PM, CallieMimosa wrote:

Predators

<Fish.scr>
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “CallieMimosa” <CallieMimosa@aol.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re:
Date: July 18, 2004 at 7:51:38 PM EDT
To: “Ibogaine” <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Predators

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Nicotine
Date: July 18, 2004 at 6:51:24 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

That’s a good answer Patrick. ‘Why do you smoke cigarettes’

‘Because god wants me to kill you’ isn’t one that’s ever come to my mind
before bro. I’ll have
to remember it 🙂

I’m voting Kerry too. I don’t want to but that’s how I feel, voting what
I felt is what got Bush in
the white house with Nader taking so much of the vote the last time.

Peace out and die
Curtis

On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 15:36:48 -0700 “Patrick K.Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
wrote:
On Jul 18, 2004, at 6:24 PM, Carla Barnes wrote:

Patrick and Preston, love both of you but as someone
who used to smoke, then stopped, it is very annoying.
Not telling either one of you what you should do
but…… and its not healthy 🙂

Well … PERHAPS if you are indeed so chronically sensitized to

cigarette smoke; we are merely resonating with Universal Harmony

because God wants to Kill You, and remove your genetic material
from
the current revision level of Consensual Reality(TM).  Please don’t

take it personally, we are just humble servants to Great Forces.

Sorry, your immune system is not compatible with Kali Yuga … buh-
bye!

And Preston … this, “I’m not voting for Kerry!  I’m voting my

conscience!” thing you got goin’ on.  LoOk, what does politics have
to
do with having a conscience!?!?!  Nothing!  Nada.  Completely
incompatible concepts.  If I wuz gonna vote my conscience I’d be
voting
Libertarian; but, the very HEART, the CORE, the center so to speak,
of
being a Libertarian is pragmatism.  Which means even Libertarians

aren’t gonna be voting Libertarian this time around.

Kerry sucks; whoopsie, no, wait, I meant to say: FILLS me with BELIEF

in the AmerikKkan System!  God Bless us All, everyonE.  But, uhm,
aside
from that War on Us, erm, Drugs, thing … I mean, Bush sucks more.

Dana, explain everything … You can handle it, <Passing mic to
Dana>:

Patrick

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
http://www.hushmail.com/services-messenger?l=434

Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
http://www.hushmail.com/about-affiliate?l=427

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Nicotine
Date: July 18, 2004 at 6:43:59 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hmmm.. who funded this?

maybe the marlboro man?

_.conspiracy.dh

On Sunday, July 18, 2004, at 10:46 AM, Sara Glatt wrote:

Robin McKie, science editor

Sunday July 18, 2004

The Observer

Nicotine could soon be rehabilitated as a treatment for schizophrenia, Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s diseases, as well as hyperactivity disorders.

Research shows that the chemical that has addicted millions to smoking has a powerful impact on brain activity in patients who suffer from psychiatric and degenerative disorders.

Some experiments have shown that nicotine can slow down the onset of Parkinson’s symptoms; others have had revealed its power in curtailing the hallucinations of schizophrenics.

‘A whole range of psychiatric conditions seem to be helped by nicotine,’ said Dr Dan McGehee, a neurobiologist at the University of Chicago. ‘However, such benefits do not justify smoking. The lethal effects of cigarettes far outweigh any help they provide. On the other hand, our research does suggest that derivatives of nicotine, administered medically, could help to alleviate a range of psychiatric problems.’

Nicotine is known to switch on receptors on the surface of cells in certain parts of the brain, causing these neurones to release the neuro-transmitter dopamine, a chemical that is associated with feelings of pleasure. This effect leads to a person’s addiction.

More than 50 per cent of people suffering from clinical depression smoke, while the figure rises to 95 per cent for schizophrenics. But smoking among the general public has dropped to about 25 per cent. ‘The assumption is that people with psychiatric conditions are self-medicating,’ said McGehee. ‘They are smoking because the nicotine in particularly helpful in alleviating their condition.’

This point is backed by Dr Tony George, of Yale University. ‘Smoking is a marker for psychopathology,’ he states in the current issue of the journal Nature Medicine.

Similarly, it has been found that nicotine can sometimes slow the debilitating symptoms of Parkinson’s, a disease caused by the slow destruction of certain types of brain cells.

‘Either nicotine stimulates other types of brain cells to compensate for the loss of the cells involved in Parkinson’s, or it is somehow providing protection to remaining healthy Parkinson’s cells,’ said McGehee.’Either way, the effect is noticeable.’

From: Patrick K. Kroupa <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Nicotine
Date: July 18, 2004 at 6:36:48 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Jul 18, 2004, at 6:24 PM, Carla Barnes wrote:

Patrick and Preston, love both of you but as someone
who used to smoke, then stopped, it is very annoying.
Not telling either one of you what you should do
but…… and its not healthy 🙂

Well … PERHAPS if you are indeed so chronically sensitized to cigarette smoke; we are merely resonating with Universal Harmony — because God wants to Kill You, and remove your genetic material from the current revision level of Consensual Reality(TM).  Please don’t take it personally, we are just humble servants to Great Forces.  Sorry, your immune system is not compatible with Kali Yuga … buh-bye!

And Preston … this, “I’m not voting for Kerry!  I’m voting my conscience!” thing you got goin’ on.  LoOk, what does politics have to do with having a conscience!?!?!  Nothing!  Nada.  Completely incompatible concepts.  If I wuz gonna vote my conscience I’d be voting Libertarian; but, the very HEART, the CORE, the center so to speak, of being a Libertarian is pragmatism.  Which means even Libertarians aren’t gonna be voting Libertarian this time around.

Kerry sucks; whoopsie, no, wait, I meant to say: FILLS me with BELIEF in the AmerikKkan System!  God Bless us All, everyonE.  But, uhm, aside from that War on Us, erm, Drugs, thing … I mean, Bush sucks more.

Dana, explain everything … You can handle it, <Passing mic to Dana>:

Patrick

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Nicotine
Date: July 18, 2004 at 6:26:35 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Whut the hell are you talking about Preston!?!?  I smoke 2-3 packs a
day of Marlboros just to be SOCIAL yo!<

OH, yeah, I forgot, what in the heck was I thinking…except I too really
like the whole “I’m smoking cause I’m self medicating” thing too.
Oh, what I’d give to be able to afford to smoke 3 OR 4 PACKS A DAY- I
live where cigarettes cost $6.50 and more per pack.
Egad. I’m not smoking nearly enough lately.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2004 6:05 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Nicotine

On Jul 18, 2004, at 5:53 PM, Preston Peet wrote:

yeah, as noted at DrugWar list today, this would sure go a LONG way
towards
explaining my own smoking habits.
;-0)))
Maybe PK’s too? And everyone else’s as well?

Whut the hell are you talking about Preston!?!?  I smoke 2-3 packs a
day of Marlboros just to be SOCIAL yo!  “You’re disgusting and awful.
You are PERSONALLY DESTROYING ALL LIFE ON *EARTH* and YOURSELF TOO.
Get the hell out of the building when you light a cigarette.  I hate
you and everyone else like you…”

This is, kinda, like being a junkie.  Why do we *always* belong to the
Last Tribe of Niggers on the planet…?  “You are sub-human scum and
total garbage…  Don’t take it personally though.”

Uhm, and, like, walking outside and breathing exhaust fumes from cars
is so much healthier.  SHUT UP and GET OVER IT.

I like the article!  I’m just SELF-MEDICATING HPPD and Manic Depression!

Patrick

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From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Nicotine
Date: July 18, 2004 at 6:24:49 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Patrick and Preston, love both of you but as someone
who used to smoke, then stopped, it is very annoying.
Not telling either one of you what you should do
but…… and its not healthy 🙂

Carla B

— “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> wrote:

On Jul 18, 2004, at 5:53 PM, Preston Peet wrote:

yeah, as noted at DrugWar list today, this would
sure go a LONG way
towards
explaining my own smoking habits.
;-0)))
Maybe PK’s too? And everyone else’s as well?

Whut the hell are you talking about Preston!?!?  I
smoke 2-3 packs a
day of Marlboros just to be SOCIAL yo!  “You’re
disgusting and awful.
You are PERSONALLY DESTROYING ALL LIFE ON *EARTH*
and YOURSELF TOO.
Get the hell out of the building when you light a
cigarette.  I hate
you and everyone else like you…”

This is, kinda, like being a junkie.  Why do we
*always* belong to the
Last Tribe of Niggers on the planet…?  “You are
sub-human scum and
total garbage…  Don’t take it personally though.”

Uhm, and, like, walking outside and breathing
exhaust fumes from cars
is so much healthier.  SHUT UP and GET OVER IT.

I like the article!  I’m just SELF-MEDICATING HPPD
and Manic Depression!

Patrick

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Vote for the stars of Yahoo!’s next ad campaign!
http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/yahoo/votelifeengine/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: Patrick K. Kroupa <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Nicotine
Date: July 18, 2004 at 6:05:38 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Jul 18, 2004, at 5:53 PM, Preston Peet wrote:

yeah, as noted at DrugWar list today, this would sure go a LONG way towards
explaining my own smoking habits.
;-0)))
Maybe PK’s too? And everyone else’s as well?

Whut the hell are you talking about Preston!?!?  I smoke 2-3 packs a day of Marlboros just to be SOCIAL yo!  “You’re disgusting and awful.  You are PERSONALLY DESTROYING ALL LIFE ON *EARTH* and YOURSELF TOO.  Get the hell out of the building when you light a cigarette.  I hate you and everyone else like you…”

This is, kinda, like being a junkie.  Why do we *always* belong to the Last Tribe of Niggers on the planet…?  “You are sub-human scum and total garbage…  Don’t take it personally though.”

Uhm, and, like, walking outside and breathing exhaust fumes from cars is so much healthier.  SHUT UP and GET OVER IT.

I like the article!  I’m just SELF-MEDICATING HPPD and Manic Depression!

Patrick

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Nicotine
Date: July 18, 2004 at 5:53:17 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

yeah, as noted at DrugWar list today, this would sure go a LONG way towards
explaining my own smoking habits.
;-0)))
Maybe PK’s too? And everyone else’s as well?
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2004 4:46 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Nicotine

Robin McKie, science editor

Sunday July 18, 2004

The Observer

Nicotine could soon be rehabilitated as a treatment for schizophrenia,
Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s diseases, as well as hyperactivity disorders.

Research shows that the chemical that has addicted millions to smoking has a
powerful impact on brain activity in patients who suffer from psychiatric
and degenerative disorders.

Some experiments have shown that nicotine can slow down the onset of
Parkinson’s symptoms; others have had revealed its power in curtailing the
hallucinations of schizophrenics.

‘A whole range of psychiatric conditions seem to be helped by nicotine,’
said Dr Dan McGehee, a neurobiologist at the University of Chicago.
‘However, such benefits do not justify smoking. The lethal effects of
cigarettes far outweigh any help they provide. On the other hand, our
research does suggest that derivatives of nicotine, administered medically,
could help to alleviate a range of psychiatric problems.’

Nicotine is known to switch on receptors on the surface of cells in certain
parts of the brain, causing these neurones to release the neuro-transmitter
dopamine, a chemical that is associated with feelings of pleasure. This
effect leads to a person’s addiction.

More than 50 per cent of people suffering from clinical depression smoke,
while the figure rises to 95 per cent for schizophrenics. But smoking among
the general public has dropped to about 25 per cent. ‘The assumption is that
people with psychiatric conditions are self-medicating,’ said McGehee. ‘They
are smoking because the nicotine in particularly helpful in alleviating
their condition.’

This point is backed by Dr Tony George, of Yale University. ‘Smoking is a
marker for psychopathology,’ he states in the current issue of the journal
Nature Medicine.

Similarly, it has been found that nicotine can sometimes slow the
debilitating symptoms of Parkinson’s, a disease caused by the slow
destruction of certain types of brain cells.

‘Either nicotine stimulates other types of brain cells to compensate for the
loss of the cells involved in Parkinson’s, or it is somehow providing
protection to remaining healthy Parkinson’s cells,’ said McGehee. ‘Either
way, the effect is noticeable.’

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: [ibogaine] Aids, hep c, bse what drug user must know.
Date: July 18, 2004 at 5:04:47 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

AIDS, Hepatitis C, BSE:
Infectious or Intoxication Diseases?

Claus Köhnlein, Germany

English translation and English edit by Jürgen Faas, Kathy McMahon and Fintan Dunne. With kind permission by the author.

About the author:

Claus Köhnlein, is a clinical oncologist and clinician with AIDS-practice in Kiel, Germany, clinical Advisor to IFAS and member of the Presidential AIDS Advisory Panel of South Africa.

If you are willing to believe the medical as well as the general press, the world today is again and again beset by new big epidemics. First AIDS, then hepatitis C, now BSE. These new plagues differ from the plagues of the past in one respect: The number of affected people is relatively small. 

While the old plagues annihilated whole towns, the number of people who actually fall ill with the “new big plagues” is very low. In the case of AIDS there are about 2000 “new infections” (HIV antibody positive) every year, and 600 deaths [in Germany]. Hepatitis C hasn’t led to a significant increase of liver cirrhosis, and regarding BSE, we still don’t have even one clinical case in our country, while the press has been talking about BSE crisis or epidemics for weeks. 

The epidemic-like character of these diseases is generated by a molecular biological phenomenon, namely so-called test explosions. Today molecular biology is capable of detecting the smallest quantities of DNA or RNA with the PCR (Polymerase Chain Reaction) and able to produce antibodies against it. The connection between what has been isolated in humans or animals, and the presence of clinical symptoms, is a mere hypothesis. This is perfectly illustrated in BSE, where a testing epidemic has also taken place now, and still not one clinical symptom (a mad cow) has appeared [in Germany]. 

Because the symptoms are often missing, they must proclaim endless latency periods, up to 55 years (between infection with the “BSE pathogen” and developing the new variant of Creutzfeld-Jakob-Disease). But let’s start with AIDS, the first of the big new plagues.

AIDS 

AIDS manifested itself in the early 80s in San Francisco and affected only homosexuals, who at the age of [about] 30 developed PCP (Pneumocystis Carinii Pneumonia) and in part died of it. These first patients, whose cases were published by Dr. Gottlieb, had two things in common; they were homosexual and they were heavy drug addicts (cocaine, amphetamines, Amyl nitrites). 

Amyl nitrite is a sex drug, that is almost exclusively used in homosexual community and which is induced in large quantities via inhalation. Nitrates are, testable in animal research and in lymphocyte cultures, immuno-toxic and cytotoxic as well as cancerogen (Source: NIDA, National Institute of Drug abuse). Before the acronym “AIDS” was born, the same thing had the name GRID (Gay Related Immune-Deficiency). During the first years science assumed a lifestyle disease, because it was obvious that AIDS only occurred in certain communities (homosexuals who lived the “fast-lane-lifestyle”). In 1983 the US health minister proclaimed on a press conference that a US researcher had discovered a retrovirus which was the probable cause of AIDS. The next day all papers wrote that a US researcher had discovered the cause of AIDS. They had forgotten the word “probable”… since then all research and therapy has taken place only from the view of the virus hypothesis. In other words, for the past 17 years the question has been researched: how HIV does cause AIDS; the question IF HIV does cause AIDS must not be asked anymore. 

Years later, Kary Mullis, Nobel laureate in chemistry 1993 and inventor of the polymerase chain reaction, needed a reference for “the generally known fact” that HIV was the cause of AIDS. While working on a project, he became aware that he didn’t know a scientific reference for the statement he had just written down: HIV is the probable cause of AIDS. So he asked the next virologist at the table after that basic paper. The virologist told Mullis, he wouldn’t need a reference in this case; after all, everyone knows that HIV leads to AIDS. Kary Mullis disagreed and thought such an important discovery should be published in some paper. He learnt soon that it was impossible to find such a paper. Instead, he was pointed to the press conference of 1983 over and over again.

One day, he got the opportunity to talk to Luc Montagnier from the Pasteur Institute, the [claimed] discoverer of the virus, during an event in San Diego. HE should know the answer. Confronted with Mullis´question, Montagnier said: “Why don’t you cite the report of the CDC (Centers of Disease Control)?” Mullis answered: “This report doesn’t address the question whether or not HIV is the cause of AIDS” – “Right”, Montagnier admitted, “but maybe you could cite the SIV study (Simian Immuno-deficiency Virus, which is very similar to HIV).” That paper didn’t convince Mullis either, because the monkeys developed different diseases, also because the virus wasn’t the same one, and thirdly, because the paper had been published only a few months before. He looked for the original paper that should demonstrate in whatever form that HIV was the cause of AIDS. At that point, Montagnier’s answer consisted of running away, to greet a group on the other side of the room. 

I had a similar experience this year [2000] in South Africa on the AIDS Advisory Panel, which had been initiated by President Thabo Mbeki. Mbeki had invited 33 scientists from all over the world in order to shed light on the AIDS problem in his country. Among these panellists were 22 scientists who believed in the virus hypothesis. Furthermore, there were 11 so-called dissidents (which I belong to), who cast doubt on the virus hypothesis and rather assume that AIDS in Africa is the result of increasing poverty. In the developed countries AIDS is the result of drugs, and above all the result of the therapy against AIDS (AZT). 

I asked Montagnier what convinced him that AIDS is caused by a virus. Montagnier answered that over the years apparently an effective treatment has been developed, and this was proof enough for HIV leading to AIDS. In other words, the virologists have no virological arguments for the theory that HIV leads to AIDS. Instead, they get the proof for their hypotheses from physicians, who give a positive feedback by saying “Of course AIDS is a viral disease that responds to antiviral treatment.” However, we doctors treat HIV-positive patients basically differently from if they were HIV-negative. From shingles to apoplexy, HIV-pos. Patients are given a lifelong antiviral treatment, or we treat them usually without any clinical illness, only on the basis of surrogate markers like CD4-cells and viral load, which (latter) can be measured via PCR (the method invented by Kary Mullis). Mullis on his method: “It is nonsense to amplify something that is detectable only by PCR and which is practically zero; it will still be close to zero.” 

Now in Africa, on the panel, it also became obvious that the initial dose of 1500-mg AZT (1987) was much too high. In other words, it became clear that the situation of the patients then wasn’t improved by this high dosed therapy -but worsened. The high mortality of the AIDS patients at that time was not too striking though, because it was the general expectation that AIDS patients will die fast and young. 

The problem of the therapy was and is that it is extremely immuno-suppressive itself. AZT was developed in the 60s specifically as a chemotherapy against cancer. But wasn’t used then due to severe toxicity. However, a few pre-studies had been carried out, so that the substance could be used in the 80s. Then AZT was tested in a placebo-controlled study in 1987. This study was cancelled after four months, because at that time it looked like the patients in the treatment group would derive benefit from the therapy. 

The publication in NEJM led to the world-wide use of 1500-mg AZT for AIDS patients and HIV-positive people. The reason for the early cancelling of the study was the unbelievable pressure from lobbying groups who hoped a cure was found. But afterwards mortality in both groups jumped up and reached levels of 80 – 90% after four years of AZT therapy. In other words, after four years most AIDS patients had died. 

This extreme mortality eventually got noticed though, and accordingly the AZT doses were lowered around 1990, because it also became obvious that the bone marrow couldn’t stand the chemotherapy. Still, any antiviral therapy has been and still is a lifelong therapy. Only this year, after numerous problems with side effects were reported also for the newer drugs (protease inhibitors), they publicly consider drug holidays (Nature, Lancet, 2000). Now they state everywhere (see Montagnier) that the new therapy works, because mortality of AIDS patients has clearly declined. This, however, is nothing but a euphemism for lower toxicity by dose reduction.

An increasingly critical attitude by patients themselves, who have witnessed the AZT disaster of the early 90s and extensive literature on the AZT problem have generated a more critical atmosphere toward the therapy. And yet, declining mortality of AIDS is still attributed to the better therapy, and declining mortality correlating with increased use of protease inhibitors is demonstrated in a time frame (Palella et al. NEJM). What you can’t see in that time frame is the fact that mortality had already been distinctly declining since 1990/91, the time when therapists noticed that AZT in 1500 mg doses were not tolerable for their patients (bone marrow suppression). At that time, however, we had already treated a whole generation of AIDS patients into irreversible immune suppression.

This AZT catastrophe is the reason for the ineradicable belief that HIV is the cause of AIDS. Moreover, it has led to the habit to use “HIV” and “AIDS” as synonymous terms. Epidemiological predictions are based on this assumption that HIV is the same as AIDS, and in respect of all countries with such HIV-test explosions they predict that catastrophic AIDS epidemics will follow. For the president of South Africa, Mbeki, the discrepancy between what European and US newspapers write about his country (drastic population reduction) and what is actually happening in his country (doubling of the population within the past 30 years), was striking. Hence he refused to follow the general (American) AIDS-politics and instead, called the meeting of experts who had the task to examine whether or not HIV was actually the cause of AIDS. 

Two things had particularly startled him: First the extensive literature on AZT and the damaging effects of this substance. Secondly a paper by Max Essex that was published in the “Journal of Infectious Diseases” and which describes a strong cross reaction of HIV tests with antigens, that can be found in the bacteria which cause tuberculosis and lepra. That means, nobody in Africa or elsewhere in the world knows whether a patient suffers from tuberculosis because he is HIV-positive, or whether he is HIV-positive because he suffers from tuberculosis. 

Another problem of the AIDS epidemiology is the following: By now about 30 afflictions, all of which were known before, are being renamed to AIDS in the presence of a positive HIV-test. This also is not an increase of diseases of course –but just a redefinition. This circular definition HIV+/TB = AIDS and HIV-/TB = TB makes the correlation HIV-AIDS appear 100%. For example, a patient who suffers from TB and who is also HIV-positive is today considered an AIDS patient. A woman who suffers from cervical carcinoma is today considered an AIDS patient, and so is a patient with a lymphoma. If they have antibodies against HIV. 

The virus-AIDS-hypothesis and the media alarm connected to it (12 cover stories alone by the German magazine Der Spiegel) has caused the biggest medical catastrophe and human tragedy, by driving countless numbers of people into fear and despair, by causing suicides and iatrogenic deaths, and is still doing so. 

Possibly the end of this is in sight, if Mbeki will be successful with his AIDS politics and will ban HIV-testing as well as antiviral medication in his country, and instead, will fight tuberculosis that is progressing in his country and poverty that is connected to it. Tuberculosis has always been a good indicator for the weal and woe of a society (see the frequency of TB in Germany after the two world wars, Statistisches Bundesamt Wiesbaden). Modern tuberculosis however is now, after the introduction of HIV-tests, called AIDS and is treated accordingly. In India they showed me patients who had tuberculosis and sold house and home, in order to get the cure (AZT) from the West. 

Hepatitis C 

With hepatitis C we see a similar phenomenon, although the iatrogenic measure is not as drastic as in the case of the HIV/AIDS hypothesis. Here one can only expect a temporary therapy with interferon and Ribavirin ™, however this therapy too produces many side effects, and as I will show, it’s also superfluous.

The birth year of hepatitis C is 1987. The laboratory for this job was nothing less than the Chiron Corp., a biochemical company that by now makes billions in sales with Hepatitis C tests. At that time they injected blood from a patient with a Non-A/Non-B hepatitis into chimps. None of the animals developed hepatitis. Just around day # 14 after the infection they showed temporary increase of liver-enzymes (transaminase). The animals were slaughtered, and the liver tissue was examined. They didn’t find a virus. Being in deep despair they then searched for the tiniest traces of a virus, and amplified a little piece of genetic information, that didn’t seem to belong to the genetic code of the tissue, via PCR. They assumed that this piece of foreign RNA must be the genetic information of a before undiscovered virus. Whatever it was, the liver tissue contained it in hardly detectable quantities, but they were able to build an antibody against it.

This antibody bestowed us the hepatitis epidemic insofar, as test explosions are taking place again and HCV positive patients are now told they carry a virus that after a latency period of ca. 30 years will generate a liver cirrhosis. Most of the HCV positive patients, however, don’t have any symptoms of illness. Some have slightly increased transaminase, and real liver damage is almost exclusively a problem of those patients who have consumed alcohol and drugs before. Here we see indeed a big overlap insofar, as almost 80% of the drug addicts are HCV positive. Now we have to answer the question again, does the virus damage the liver, or the drugs and the alcohol? The 30-year latency period would then be an euphemism for the toxic effects of drugs and alcohol that can lead to liver cirrhosis after 30 years. 

While two or three years ago newspapers had headlines like “Hepatitis C – underestimated danger; HCV – unrecognised danger; HCV – the new big plague, “It comes quietly but powerfully”. We nowadays read more often: “Danger of hepatitis overestimated?”. Prof. Manns from Hannover, who initially was one of worse case predictors, is now saying that – based on the available studies and on a cost-benefit-risk estimation – therapy for Hepatitis C can be seen as a relative counter indication. 

This new view when it comes to an estimation of hepatitis C has the following background: Last year Seef et. al published a big study in Annals. of Internal Medicine, that was carried out with GIs whose serums had been frozen 45 years ago. A follow-up over 45 years showed that there are practically no differences between liver diseases of HCV positive and of HCV negative people. 
This indeed leads to the consideration that the risk of a HCV positive person developing liver cirrhosis later in life was apparently massively overestimated. And it makes the theory appear more plausible that liver toxic substances like alcohol and drugs, called “cofactors”, are actually the main factors. Hence, a positive HCV test obviously has no clinical relevance. Accordingly, antiviral treatment for HCV positive patients doesn’t make any sense. 

Moreover, medical treatment of liver diseases has been considered paradoxical by leading hepatologists over many decades, because practically all substances damage the liver in one way or the other, because the liver is the main organ for metabolism of toxins. For example, Benuron, that is used during an interferon treatment one gram per day. Remember in this context the Fialuridine disaster – a treatment attempt – a few years ago, where a couple of patients died, and others could only be rescued by liver transplantation (Hoofnagle et. al).

A German scientist and his team were able to find the sequences named HCV in human DNA of healthy HCV negative individuals. So, it’s imaginable that HCV positivity can be produced endogenously when liver cells get damaged by toxic substances like alcohol or drugs and then generate these sequences. This would explain the relatively strong correlation between HCV positivity and alcohol/drugs. 

In the case of hepatitis C – its similar for hepatitis G – we can apparently still hope for a self-correction of science, because of the lack of clinical evidence. HCV positive liver cirrhoses occur almost exclusively in drug users or alcoholics, while a significant group of people who are HCV positive and develop a liver cirrhosis at the age of 50 and who are free of nutritive-toxic liver damages, does practically not exist.

Medical publications and the general press are promoting the epidemic-like character of the hepatitis C plague. Recently, in Itzehoe a HCV positive surgeon allegedly infected many of his patients. But one has to consider that prevalence of hepatitis C antibodies is relatively high in the population, so that it is easily possible that 2% react positively to HCV tests, that means 40 cases out of 2000 would match the general degree of “infection”.

BSE (Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy) 

Now the atmosphere of plague fear culminates in the BSE hysteria –where we have not one case of illness in our country [Germany], and still you can read about the BSE crisis or BSE plague in all newspapers. Here again we see the phenomenon of a test explosion, insofar as the Swiss company Prionics has their BSE tests ready for the market and is distributing them. Here again a positive test case is equated with a case of disease. The plague atmosphere created by this is even supported by the panic which comes up with the hypothetical notion that mad cow disease can be transmitted to humans by them eating beef and will appear as the new variant of the Creutzfeld-Jakob disease. The media heat up this atmosphere of plague fear by dragging putative victims in front of the TV cameras although the disease is only diagnosable post mortem.

While all epidemiological data available so far contradict such a connection, this is still the big fear, which drives scientists and politician to the current totally overdone safety measures (mass slaughter of cows). 

If we want to understand this fear, we must browse back a some years, and consider the work of Carleton Gajdusek. Gajdusek did research in Papua New Guinea in the 70s, on a kind of dementia, which was prevalent mainly in the female population there. The disease Kuru was observed as being endemic in two tribes whose members often married each other. These so called transmissible spongiform encephalopathies which Kuru belongs to, the Creutzfeld-Jakob disease, the familiar insomnia and the Gerstmann-Sträußler-Scheinker syndrome appear sporadically or genetically caused and of autosomal dominant origin. These diseases are fatal within 5 years. They are extremely rare, frequency is around 1 : 1000000 and within a family with a frequency of 1 : 50 –which is a good argument for a genetic cause.

But Gajdusek received the Nobel Prize for his concept of slow viruses and thereby established the transmissibility of those spongiform encephalopathies. However, if we observe his experiments he tried to prove the transmissibility with, we have to wonder today that the scientific community at that time accepted those papers as proof for transmissibility. 

Neither the feeding of infected brain tissue nor the injection of it affected the lab chimps, only one bizarre experiment led to neurological symptoms in the chimps, and this was intra-cerebral inoculation experiment. On these experiments the transmissibility of those diseases is based! Hardly evidence for Gajdusek´s cannibalistic hypothesis, which postulates that the disease in humans could be caused by the consumption of, infected brain. Burdensomely we have to add that Gajdusek is the only witness alive for cannibalism in Papua New Guinea. One teams of anthropologists that examined the case, found stories about cannibalism but no authentic cases. So, about Gajdusek´s Nobel Prize we can only say, if his stories are not true, they have nicely been made up anyway. Despite these inconsistencies (intra-cerebral inoculation experiments) for proof of the oral transmission path the notion of oral transmission is now so established that we actually fear the consumption of beef. According to Gajdusek´s attempts, we would only have reason to fear something, if we made holes in our head and inoculated the infected brain of mad cows. 

Also on the cannibalistic hypothesis the assumption is based that by feeding of infectious animal meal the plague got started. Because of the general acceptance of this hypothesis it is entirely neglected that the epidemiology of BSE does not match the feeding of animal meal at all. Great Britain for instance has exported tons of animal meal to the Middle East, South Africa and also to the USA. In none of these countries BSE occurred Instead, BSE cases almost always occur in Great Britain (99%), Switzerland and North Ireland. 

One explanation is in the case of BSE again the intoxication hypothesis. 1985 in England a law came into force which forced British farmers to pour Phosmet ™ along the napes of their cows. Phosmet is an organphosphate that is used as insecticide against the warble fly. This substance was used in relatively high concentration only in Great Britain, North Ireland and Switzerland, and the law didn’t allow an exception. A British farmer, Mark Purdey, noticed that his cows from organic production didn’t develop BSE although they were fed by animal meal, but never treated with organphosphates. 

The British Government knows this context, and in the early 90s the law was taken back, because a connection between the organophosphate and the occurrence of BSE was very likely. Organophosphates can change the alpha helix structure of proteins. According to this measure, BSE cases started to decline from 1993 on. Actually, the British inquiry committee admits that organophosphates are apparently a cofactor for BSE. Toxicologically it is known (Lüllmann, Kuschinski: Lehrbuch der Toxikologie) that chronic intoxications with organophosphates lead to “the clinical symptoms of polyneuropathy. The basis is axon swellings and fragmentation and eventually demyelinization of peripheral and central axons”. 

However, the BSE inquiry committee refuses to accept the organophosphates as the sole cause. But one question comes up. Why do not all those cows get the disease that was treated with organophosphates? Here we must consider: The dose makes the toxin – and even if all cows get the some quantity it depends on the diffusion distance whether the toxin reaches the central nervous system and can start its damaging activity. 

Thereto the observation of British farmers: meagre milk cows are significantly more receptive to BSE than the fatter beef-cows. If one pictures the diffusion distance the nerve toxin takes after being poured over the nape of the cows, one can easily imagine that the thickness of the subcutaneous fatty layer is quite crucial for whether or not a cow will develop BSE. As lipophilic substances the organophosphates are buffered in the subcutaneous fatty layer. 

Summary 

But if a toxin can speed up the outbreak of a disease, like alcohol can contribute to liver diseases, then it can also be the sole cause. However, if Phosmet would be declared as cause of BSE, compensation lawsuits in billions would wait for both the British government and the manufacturer of the insecticide. This is certainly not desirable for them, so they prefer to surround the basically clear context in a fog of prions. 

Intoxication hypotheses are easily testable and in contrast to the virus or prion hypotheses also falsifiable. They can be examined toxicologically and epidemiologically and then we can either accept or reject them. 

For AIDS, the intoxication hypothesis would make following predictions: 
All patients, who die young of AIDS, must have used recreational or antiviral drugs over a longer period. There must not be a significant number of people who die of AIDS at a young age and who are drug free and haven’t taken any antivirals.

For hepatitis C it would mean, that there is no significant number of people who die of Hepatitis C caused liver cirrhosis in their midlives and who are drug free and alcohol free. 

And for BSE the intoxication hypothesis would mean that only cows who have been treated with organophosphates, develop BSE, and inversely, if a significant number of cows with no organophosphate treatment would develop BSE, the intoxication hypothesis would be proven wrong. 
As elaborated above, epidemiological and toxicological data suggest that chronic intoxications are the real cause for the named diseases AIDS, HCV and BSE. Why these plausible hypothesis aren’t investigated further, this is a topic one could write a book about which could have the title “conflicts of interests”. 

Infection hypotheses can help making billions of dollars:

1. The antibody business: Millions of screening tests are distributed, each blood sample needs to be tested (4 millions in Germany alone) 

2. The therapy business: Antiviral medication, 3 or 4 or 5 fold combinations, AIDS can’t be topped in this department. 

3. Possibly vaccinations: Here, however, the concept of the new big plagues gets in the way of itself, because this has brought up the central paradox of immunology. Since the beginning of HIV they have told us: He who has antibodies to HIV, will die, instead of, he who has antibodies to HIV will live, which would meet our vaccination concepts. How many HIV antibody negative individuals would like to get vaccinated, in order to have antibodies to HIV afterwards? 

With intoxication hypotheses on the other hand you cannot make any money at all. The simple message is to avoid the poison and you won’t get sick. Such hypotheses are counterproductive insofar as the toxins (drugs, alcohol, pills, and phosmet) bring high revenues. The conflict of interests is not resolvable: What virologist who does directly profit millions from their patent rights of the HIV or HCV tests (Montagnier, Simon Wain-Hobsen, Robin Weiss, Robert Gallo) can risk to take even one look in the other direction. 

What physician who has treated AIDS or hepatitis C patients over many years in good faith in the virus hypothesis and with high personal input, can look in the other direction? The more so as he must get the feeling, due to seemingly plausible changes of surrogate markers, that he is on the right track. Everywhere in the world children are treated according to this principle. Healthy children get antiviral therapies, in order to “delay the outbreak of illness”, that is, a clinically healthy HIV pos. child gets a therapy, and any affection that appears under this therapy will be blamed on the “basic disease” or interpreted as therapy failure because of the virus developing resistance. In other words, the child has no chance to escape. 

I have experienced myself –at a trial in Canada (I was ordered to as an expert of AZT), how healthy kids were taken away from their mother who had been HIV+ for 15 years and who was allowed to refuse anti-retroviral treatment for herself but not for her children. 

Similar was a judicial sentence in England where a HIV positive couple refused to get their newborn tested. The judge said that the child must be tested, because in the case of a positive test result immediate therapy would be necessary. 

Even study results that shed light on the AZT use of pregnant women aren’t able to wake up the authors. They describe a 5 – 6-fold higher risk of a rapidly progredient course of HIV infection for those kids whose mothers have been treated with AZT during pregnancy, compared to children whose mothers have not got any AZT (J. of AIDS, 2000). At least our efforts in Africa on the panel seem to have somewhat impressed the Americans, because a few weeks ago the NIAID (National Institute for Allergic and Infectious Diseases) announced a big multi-centre study that included a therapy branch without antiviral therapy. So, after 13 years of aggressive long term therapy now a “U-turn” over to what until now has been considered not justifiable – a real placebo control with clinical endpoints, planned for four years. 

It would be my wish that I have seeded at least a few doubts with my lecture, and I hope to inspire a broader discussion. 

The original article has been written for a lecture for doctors in Kiel, Germany. It has been published in English at: ?????
The author can be contacted at: <Koehnlein-Kiel@t-online.de>

 

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: [ibogaine] Nicotine
Date: July 18, 2004 at 4:46:01 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Robin McKie, science editor

Sunday July 18, 2004

The Observer

Nicotine could soon be rehabilitated as a treatment for schizophrenia, Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s diseases, as well as hyperactivity disorders.

Research shows that the chemical that has addicted millions to smoking has a powerful impact on brain activity in patients who suffer from psychiatric and degenerative disorders.

Some experiments have shown that nicotine can slow down the onset of Parkinson’s symptoms; others have had revealed its power in curtailing the hallucinations of schizophrenics.

’A whole range of psychiatric conditions seem to be helped by nicotine,’ said Dr Dan McGehee, a neurobiologist at the University of Chicago. ‘However, such benefits do not justify smoking. The lethal effects of cigarettes far outweigh any help they provide. On the other hand, our research does suggest that derivatives of nicotine, administered medically, could help to alleviate a range of psychiatric problems.’

Nicotine is known to switch on receptors on the surface of cells in certain parts of the brain, causing these neurones to release the neuro-transmitter dopamine, a chemical that is associated with feelings of pleasure. This effect leads to a person’s addiction.

More than 50 per cent of people suffering from clinical depression smoke, while the figure rises to 95 per cent for schizophrenics. But smoking among the general public has dropped to about 25 per cent. ‘The assumption is that people with psychiatric conditions are self-medicating,’ said McGehee. ‘They are smoking because the nicotine in particularly helpful in alleviating their condition.’

This point is backed by Dr Tony George, of Yale University. ‘Smoking is a marker for psychopathology,’ he states in the current issue of the journal Nature Medicine.

Similarly, it has been found that nicotine can sometimes slow the debilitating symptoms of Parkinson’s, a disease caused by the slow destruction of certain types of brain cells.

’Either nicotine stimulates other types of brain cells to compensate for the loss of the cells involved in Parkinson’s, or it is somehow providing protection to remaining healthy Parkinson’s cells,’ said McGehee. ‘Either way, the effect is noticeable.’

From: <gboy@hush.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Contact List Not Forum
Date: July 18, 2004 at 3:20:23 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—–
Hash: SHA1

sweet, works finally and doesn’t take 2 hours to load over the phone
like everything else on
MindVox always does. now that it works I can appreciate the purple logo
which was always
dope but not when its the only thing I can see except a thin blue line.

.g

On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 09:27:54 -0700 Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Patrick, I don’t know when it happened but between
last week and right now you’ve made the site start to
work with my computer 🙂 Could you add more sections
under Keeping Clean and make a contact list for people
who are up for being contacted after ibogaine and
don’t mind email? It would be nice to have one spot to
check and see who __wants__ to talk and not feel weird
sending out email

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Note: This signature can be verified at https://www.hushtools.com/verify
Version: Hush 2.4

wkYEARECAAYFAkD6zXcACgkQxuwtmNNEJvSBwwCgqUQERF/TtZpi3wEf6YHwfJvR1ewA
oIZtdHPLbivGg2ogHmXZ5Hn+ijxT
=J9a0
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Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
http://www.hushmail.com/services-messenger?l=434

Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
http://www.hushmail.com/about-affiliate?l=427

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From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] a little personal gloating… =)
Date: July 18, 2004 at 3:07:26 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

**Embedded stuff

This is wonderful news, Jon.  Your chosen field of study is very
RIGHT!!  Keep us informed all the way along.  Think of the fun
you will have arguing with your instructors 🙂  Probably none of
them will understand what you are trying to explain to them but
it gives you a great opportunity to educate.  All the research
Howard has engaged in will come in very handy when you
have paper after paper to write 🙂

eheh. thanx for the encouragement =)

howard has already been very helpful to me; the first paper i ever had
published was on ibogaine, and it was tremendously helpful having his
insight and support.

about arguing with instructors, that kinda ties in with the main reason  i
chose to go with research instead of becoming a drug consellor or
something. since i’ve been through addiction treatment (at length..ehe) i
know first hand how broken it is (at least in this country).

**One of the main reasons I chose Pysch. was to find out the
scientific background for doing treatments of anykind in the Mental Health
field – counselling, or whatever.   Lo and Behold I found very little
science,
mostly unproven theories.  I went to the University of Ky. medical library
(UK is also a Medical School) for most of my info.  Additionally, I used
the image of the bell curve in my attempts to describe the traits  found in
human behavior.!!  What a piece of work is man/woman 🙂  I got quite
a bit of static and funny looks from my instrucors but made it through
anyway.

**Drug counselling is pretty cut and dried stuff  and to find employment
in that discipline requires adherence to some protocols already in place –
not necessarily what you believe to be true and effective.

on in  research, i hope i’ll have the chance to figure out better ways of
going
about it. i know i’ll probably come up against a good deal of resistance..

you know, for thinking things  like addicts should be treated with
compassion and respect..eheh. but i did have a very pleasant experience at
UMBC when i was an undergrad. the chair of the psych program there, carlo
diclemente, is a kinda a bigwig in addiction, and he was the one who let
me do an independent study on ibogaine. i also told him that i was a
recoverying junky, and he has been very supportive over the years.. he
even wrote one of my recommendations for grad school.

**That’s great.

so there are some people in the field who are really caring and open
minded… there’s some hope yet =)

**Yes, go for it.

ann
think@francomm.com

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] kerry on drugs
Date: July 18, 2004 at 2:49:29 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Well Carla,
This was my latest post to the DrugWar list on this topic, in reply to
one of the subscribers’ fears about Bush et al driving her own choice in the
matter (I don’t yet know who I’m voting for, except it’s probably not going
to be Bush nor Kerry):

—-

Libby wrote >will I be able to live with myself
if Bush got in by a small margin and makes things so
much worse that we Don’t survive it? <

Yes I will be able to live with myself if Bush wins again no matter how I
vote- not that I’ll like the fact he won, but I won’t blame myself. I do not
believe, no matter what the more opitimistic here believe, that John Kerry
will do one thing to take back any of the sweeping justice system/Patiot
Act/war on some drugs bullshit we live with now. Whether it’s Nader or
whoever, I will not be casting my vote for the same old, same old again.
I hear you all on the judicial nominations, but golly gee you all seem
to be putting a LOT of faith in Kerry that I just can’t find a single darn
reason to put in him. Sure, he has a nicer smile and I liked his whole “vets
against the war” thing, but because of his pro-war votes since then, boy,
I’ve no faith in this guy nor his choices for Supreme Court judges at ALL.
And John Edwards? LOL, nope, none there either.

What if Bush got in and then decided to declare
martial law for national security reasons?<

Sorry, but Kerry’s national security hangup seems just as stupid to me as
Bush’s.
I hear you on the fear thing Libby, but damn, if we let fear convince us
that one Skull and Bones guy is going to better than another, I feel we’ve
probably already lost a long time ago, and that the inevitable is just
around the corner no matter what I do.
I sure wasn’t thinking this thread was going to make such a stir, but
I’m glad it has. I’m glad to have all this food for thought for the upcoming
election. There’s time- I could still change my mind about things, but I so
far doubt I will.
I don’t care who the damn president is, I’m not going to cave in on a
single one of those rights- particularly who I am allowed to cast my vote
for. If DrugWar.com got shut down because I practiced my rights, then damn
it, it’ll be one more thing to rail and rant about where I can. Mumia still
manages to be heard last I heard. Granted, he might die for his cause, but
damnit, he hasn’t stop believing and following his believes, even in his
cell.
That is what “heroic” is to me, and I want more than anything to be up
to that kind of thing. So, I will continue to think that I should not
participate in the two-party bullshit we’ve got pushed down our open throats
nowadays.
I know, practicing what I believe can be scary, and won’t have result in
how I want things to be, but I’ll certainly be able to live with myself,
sans problem.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Carla Barnes” <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2004 12:35 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] kerry on drugs

Preston I have a question for you because I feel the
same way. I don’t think Kerry is much better then
Bush, I liked Dean but what did that teach us, there
isn’t anyone who is really honest and not already sold
and paid for who will ever make it to president. I am
voting for Kerry because I am voting for anyone except
bush.

I don’t want Kerry but if I vote for some green party
candidate or don’t vote at all and we get more Bush
I’m going to feel like it was at least part my fault.
I don’t want the guilt from that! 🙂

What are you going to do? Morally I agree but now
what?

Carla B

— Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Thanks. We can do this, but I don’t want to not
vote, which is what that
basically will mean if I do that.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2004 3:21 PM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] kerry on drugs

Blanco means you don’t trust those politicians and
you don’t give them
your
vote.

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Verzonden: zaterdag 17 juli 2004 17:58
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [ibogaine] kerry on drugs

what do you mean BLANCO?
Like, not vote by saying that specifically on the
ballot?
I don’t want to do that either, as that is what
really cost everyone else
but Bush the election last time round (well, other
than for that whole
Florida and the Supreme Court thing that is), in
that less than 50 percent
of our eligible voters actually got off their fat
asses and voted for the
choices we were being offered by those who rule.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2004 6:44 AM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] kerry on drugs

Is it possible to vote  BLANCO ?

sara

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Verzonden: zaterdag 17 juli 2004 11:21
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com; drugwar@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: [ibogaine] kerry on drugs

sorry to those who feel that Kerry has simply
got to be better than
Bush,
as
I myself simply refuse any longer to throw my
freakin’ vote away on any
asshole who still supports the WOSDU in any way,
shape or form.
Peace,
Preston

http://www.reason.com/hod/dk071504.shtml

This Is Kerry On Drugs

Starve a peasant, feed a terrorist

Mike Krause and Dave Kopel

For those who oppose the federal government’s
disastrous war on drugs,
there
are many things to dislike about the Bush
Administration, not the least
of
which is its shameless-and dangerous-use of the
war on terror to prop up
the
failed drug war and the accompanying $18 billion
dollar bureaucracy. And
there is no indication that four more years of a
Bush presidency will
offer
anything but more of the same.
But anyone who thinks a vote for John Kerry
means a vote for a more
liberalized approach to drug policy should think
again. Candidate
Kerry’s
choice for Homeland Security Advisor, Rand
Beers, is a seasoned drug
warrior
who has already shown his loyalty to the well
being of the drug war, no
matter how many lives it destroys, or how many
narco- terrorists are
enriched along the way.
There are currently several drug-warriors
serving in decision making
posts
within the Bush Department of Homeland Security;
ex-DEA administrator
Asa
Hutchinson is now Under Secretary for Border and
Transportation
Security.
And another ex-DEA chief Robert Bonner is
Commissioner of the Bureau of
Customs and Border Protection.
Beers’ drug warrior credentials go way back. As
he put it in a 2002
deposition, “I first began to work in the
counter-narcotics area in 1988
when I was on the National Security Counsel
staff.”
More recently, before he quit his Bush White
House position as Special
Assistant to the President and Senior Director
for Combating Terrorism
and
joined the Kerry camp, he served in both the
Clinton and Bush
Administrations’ as Assistant Secretary of State
for International
Narcotics
and Law Enforcement Affairs; the top cop and
chief apologist for
America’s
war on drugs in Latin America.
He is also one of the architects of “Plan
Colombia,” the multi-billion
dollar militarization of the drug war in
Colombia (which is now funded
as
part of the “Andean Counterdrug Initiative”).
As Beers continued in his 2002 deposition,
“There was a series of
strategy
developments dating back, in terms of my
involvement, to a 1999
development
of a regional strategy for the Andean region. I
was involved in the
development of that strategy, and I had bits and
pieces to do with most
of
the further development from a variety of
different positions.”
The effects of Beers’ proud achievement are
worth looking at closely.
snip-

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__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Vote for the stars of Yahoo!’s next ad campaign!
http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/yahoo/votelifeengine/

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] a little personal gloating… =)
Date: July 18, 2004 at 2:38:32 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

by doing
research, i hope i’ll have the chance to figure out better ways of going
about it. i know i’ll probably come up against a good deal of resistance..
you know, for thinking things  like addicts should be treated with
compassion and respect..eheh.<

IN a totally platonic, non-gay sort of way Jon, I think I love you.
I guess same goes for a lot of you here, but the above just reads so nicely,
no?
;-)))
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2004 2:16 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] a little personal gloating… =)

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

This is wonderful news, Jon.  Your chosen field of study is very
RIGHT!!  Keep us informed all the way along.  Think of the fun
you will have arguing with your instructors 🙂  Probably none of
them will understand what you are trying to explain to them but
it gives you a great opportunity to educate.  All the research
Howard has engaged in will come in very handy when you
have paper after paper to write 🙂

eheh. thanx for the encouragement =)

howard has already been very helpful to me; the first paper i ever had
published was on ibogaine, and it was tremendously helpful having his
insight and support.

about arguing with instructors, that kinda ties in with the main reason  i
chose to go with research instead of becoming a drug consellor or
something. since i’ve been through addiction treatment (at length..ehe) i
know first hand how broken it is (at least in this country). by doing
research, i hope i’ll have the chance to figure out better ways of going
about it. i know i’ll probably come up against a good deal of resistance..
you know, for thinking things  like addicts should be treated with
compassion and respect..eheh. but i did have a very pleasant experience at
UMBC when i was an undergrad. the chair of the psych program there, carlo
diclemente, is a kinda a bigwig in addiction, and he was the one who let
me do an independent study on ibogaine. i also told him that i was a
recoverying junky, and he has been very supportive over the years.. he
even wrote one of my recommendations for grad school.

so there are some people in the field who are really caring and open
minded… there’s some hope yet =)

jon

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] Enter the Shaman
Date: July 18, 2004 at 2:30:09 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: Vigilius Haufniensis
To: drugwar@mindvox.com
Cc: elite_sociopath@yahoogroups.com ; vox@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2004 2:32 PM
Subject: [drugwar] Enter the Shaman

http://www.metroactive.com/papers/sonoma/07.14.04/shaman-0429.html
Enter the Shaman
Strange journeys on the edge of the new frontier
By R. V. Scheide
When I was 17, I had a dream in which I forgot my own name. A question
bobbed to the surface–who are you?–and just like that, all sense of what
is commonly referred to as identity or the self vanished. I heard my name
called, but did not recognize it. I saw my own face, but it was unfamiliar.
The sounds and images faded into an infinite void from which no frame of
reference could be drawn, self or otherwise. I had ceased to exist. Yet the
sense of existence persisted. I instinctively understood that what was once
me was now an indivisible part of this existence. This was how life would go
on. The instant I pondered how I could possibly know this, since I had
ceased to exist, I woke up.
I’ve never forgotten that dream, and the memory of it has served me well.
When I read French existentialist Jean Paul Sartre’s assertion that
“nothingness lies coiled within being like a worm” in his classic
philosophical text Being and Nothingness, I knew exactly what he meant.
Jung’s collective unconsciousness? Been there. Nietzsche’s eternal return?
Done that. All of these examples seem like valid interpretations of my
experience.
But was my experience valid?
Until relatively recently in the Western world, the answer was no. Back in
Galileo’s day, 400 or so years ago, dreams, hallucinations, souls, spirits
and other metaphysical phenomena were cast out as objects of legitimate
scientific inquiry by the Church, which didn’t want anyone else cutting in
on the God business. What originally evolved out of religious
intolerance–scientific method–ironically morphed into its own dogmatic
secular religion, nowhere moreso than in the medical sciences. If it can’t
be measured with instruments– and so far, no one has built a device capable
of detecting, say, a soul–it doesn’t exist, as far as Western medicine is
concerned. We’re living in a material world.

Enter the shaman. For thousands of years, individuals with specialized
knowledge of both the natural and the supernatural–sometimes referred to
derogatorily as witch doctors, wizards, warlocks and witches by us
moderns–have practiced the healing arts. From indigenous tribes in North
and South America to practitioners of 3,000-year-old traditional Chinese
medicine, such healers approach health problems from physical as well as
spiritual perspectives. Now the West, blinded by science for a half a
millennia, is finally catching on. Shamanism now pervades everything from
complementary medicine to quantum physics. It may even contain the meaning
of life.
Since the 1960s, anthropologists like Michael Harner, founder of the
Foundation for Shamanic Studies in Mill Valley and author of The Way of the
Shaman, have helped reintroduce the Western world to the shamanic healing
traditions of our distant past. These traditions, still practiced by intact
indigenous tribes and other non-Western cultures around the world, take a
decidedly different view on reality; namely, that there are at least two
sets: “ordinary reality,” which we experience in our normal waking state,
and “nonordinary reality,” which occurs in dreams or induced trances.
“One of the distinguishing characteristics of the shamanic practitioner is
the ability to move back and forth at will between these realities with
discipline and purpose in order to heal and help others,” writes Harner in
his article “Science, Spirits and Shamanism.” It seems that my dream of 27
years ago qualifies as a quasi-shamanic experience: I crossed into
nonordinary reality and returned with knowledge that has proven quite useful
to me in ordinary reality.
Unlike Western scientific method, shamanism validates such experiences,
believing them to be the stuff that ordinary reality is made of. The
shamanic technique of flipping back and forth between realities has proven
to be a powerful metaphorical tool for understanding diverse complexities
ranging from interpersonal relationships to quantum mechanics. Its use has
gone decidedly mainstream. The Four Agreements by San Rafael author Don
Miguel Ruiz, who trained as a Nagual shaman in the Toltec tradition of his
native southern Mexico, remained on the New York Times bestseller list for
two years.
From Harner to Ruiz and beyond, there is no shortage of shamans in the North
Bay. Despite a reputation as the woo-woo capital of the planet, more than a
few genuine masters are in our midst. Some of these practitioners guide the
curious through group ceremonies that emulate Native American shamanic
tradition, combining dance, percussion and chanting to create a trancelike
experience. Others take Harner’s “discipline and purpose” to the limit.
Dr. Gary Daniel, a Santa Rosa-based motivation and behavioral specialist
with 20 years of experience and Ph.Ds in hypnotherapy, hypnotic
anesthesiology and transpersonal psychology, approaches shamanism from a
more Western perspective, merging sound, light and computer technology with
shamanic healing traditions to create a new modality of treatment:
techno-shamanism.
“Shamanism Plugs into the Wall,” is how Daniel describes it in an essay
recently published in the collection The Heart of Healing, edited by Dawson
Church and featuring contributions from such luminaries as Deepak Chopra and
Andrew Weil. Daniel is co-inventor of the NEURO (short for “neuro-imaging
optimization”) system, a computerized biofeedback system employing
vibration, sound and optical lasers. “We’re just using high technology to do
what the Indians did with drums and fire,” he says. “This takes all the
guesswork out of it.”
The real trick to shamanism is the moving back and forth between the two
realities at will. An altered state is required. Shamans from many
indigenous tribes throughout the Americas used hallucinogens to induce such
states, but that’s a little impractical in the legally prohibitive 21st
century. Fire, drums, dancing and chanting sufficed for other tribes. The
NEURO system claims to get the job done more quickly than either of those
methods, and is totally legal to boot.
The system is the featured attraction at Allura du Jour, a high-tech mind
and body spa founded by Daniel and partner Debra Corrigan. Stepping inside
is kind of like diving down that rabbit hole in Alice in Wonderland. Plush,
overstuffed sofas squat like giant mushrooms. Columns and pedestals are
finished in a powdered cocoa color that looks edible.
And in its own separate dark chamber sits the NEURO, a sculpted
human-form-fitting chair with a bank of computer monitors and equipment,
twin lasers perched on a pedestal in front of the chair and duplex cables
snaking across the floor connecting everything together.
The chair is lined with a latticework of miniature speakers that transmit
auditory vibrations through human bone. It also contains sensors that
monitor the body’s vital statistics, translating the data via computer
algorithm to approximate the subject’s brain-wave pattern on a screen:
alpha, beta, theta or delta. Daniel manipulates NEURO’s vibration, sound and
light elements to achieve the desired brain state.
From previous experience, I know that I’m one of the 20 percent of the
population who is relatively easy to hypnotize, so eagerly accept an offer
to “test drive” the system.
Encased in the NEURO chair, I close my eyes and laser spirograph patterns
flicker across my eyelids. My breathing slows. The light seems to penetrate
my visual cortex. The “sounds” of wind blowing and waves crashing throb
through the chair and up and down the length of my skeleton, making it feel
as if my body is levitating on an invisible cushion of sonic energy like a
puck on an air hockey table. My breathing, the throbbing sounds and the
pulsing lasers seem to synchronize and I slip into the deepest, purest
trance I’ve ever experienced.
A prerecorded voice not unlike Stuart Smalley’s, the character played by Al
Franken on Saturday Night Live, begins reciting first-person positive
affirmations: “I have the power to take control of my life. I am a creative
person. I will reach my full potential.”
It doesn’t seem silly at all. In fact, I believe every word with every
vibrating molecule of my being. As Daniel eases off of the machine, an
effect he calls “fractalization” kicks in: I am floating in a sea of what
looks and feels like television static. It’s the closest I’ve ever come to
experiencing that same infinite void from my dream. Perhaps it was
psychosomatic, but my mood is elevated for weeks after that 12-minute
session.
“I knew that light and sound have a tremendous effect on the body, and I
knew there had to be a way to synthesize it,” Daniel later explains. He’s
used the system to treat clients ranging from creatively blocked
professionals to hardcore nicotine addicts. Believing in the process,
however, is a major hurdle to overcome.
“The shaman somehow tapped into their subject’s ability to believe in the
shaman’s power and create a true healing event,” he writes in “Shamanism
Plugs into the Wall.”
“Today’s healer must overcome the fear from acquired wisdom in the subject
by overloading the subject’s consciousness and thereby opening the mind at
the subconscious level to new ideas and possibilities.”
Like Gary Daniel, Allen Hardman began his shamanic explorations as a
hypnotherapist. A chance encounter with Four Agreements author Miguel Ruiz
led to nine years of study with the Toltec Nagual. With the master’s
blessing, Hardman last month branched out with his own shamanic workshop,
the Lucid Living Intensive. Computer-savvy and modern, Hardman is often
jokingly referred to as the “high-tech Toltec.”
“I’ll often take people into essentially a hypnotic trance, to give them the
sense of the mindless divinity, to experience what they perceive
mindlessly,” he says. Sensing the mindless divinity–an apt description of
my original dream experience. Such insights, from dreams or induced trances,
can open up new, less distorted channels of perception.
“Light carries the message perfectly, but our normal channels of perception
distort the message,” he stresses. By focusing or “channeling” individual
awareness in nonordinary reality–a process known as “lucid
dreaming”–distortion is ideally cut to zero, permitting experienced Toltec
shamans to take control of the dream or trance, a useful tool for exploring
still more channels in nonordinary reality. But Hardman prefers focusing his
advanced student’s awareness toward ordinary reality, a process called
“lucid living,” and a fairly radical paradox occurs: as the distortion
clears, students realize ordinary reality is but a daydream. That means,
just as in lucid dreaming, ordinary reality can be controlled.
Since light seems to play such a significant role in a wide array of
shamanic traditions, it is perhaps not surprising that quantum
physicists–the scientists who study quarks, the tiny packets of
wave/particle that seem to oscillate between matter and energy at the
subatomic level–are interested. As psychiatrist and physicist Arnold
Mindell demonstrates in his seminal book Quantum Mind: The Edge Between
Physics and Psychology, there appears to be a profound relationship between
the mathematics of quantum mechanics and the ordinary and nonordinary
realities of the shaman.
The equations used to describe wave motion in quantum physics utilize
complex numbers, a combination of real numbers and the so-called imaginary
numbers based on the square root of -1. If you didn’t make it this far in
high school math, don’t worry. Mindell proposes a fairly simple hypothesis:
the real numbers are analogous to ordinary reality; the imaginary numbers
are analogous to nonordinary reality.
“We have seen that the patterns found in the psychology of perception in
shamanic experience are consistent with patterns found in math and now in
physics,” Mindell writes. “This consistency points to the unified field, the
dreamlike substance of experience, which is basic to life, to psychology and
physics, to electrons and their observers, to all of us as we live and
grow.”
Not coincidentally, Mindell compares the way physicists think about
imaginary numbers with the shamanic concept of lucid dreaming. “When you
multiply a complex number by its conjugate [mirror image or reciprocal], the
result is an entirely real number,” he writes. In other words, the equations
describing energy waves appear to correlate with the shamanic notion of a
mindless divinity from which both nonordinary and ordinary reality arise.
Could the shaman’s mindless divinity and the so-far-undiscovered unified
field be the same thing? Perhaps. Physicists from China, where traditional
Chinese medicine or qigong (pronounced “chi-gong”) has been practiced for
the past 3,000 years, have speculated that chi, the energy or life force
that flows through the body, emanates from the unified field or a similar
structure in theoretical physics known as the quantum vacuum.
A rich tapestry of overlaying traditions compose qigong, including martial
arts, acupuncture, natural medicine, diet and a system of movement similar
to the yoga, in which special poses, mimicking spiritual animals such as the
turtle, crane and bear, help channel the flow of chi through medians and
other conduits of the body.
Chi itself is most often compared to electricity because it is thought to
flow through these medians and conduits like electrons through a wire.
Skilled practitioners such as Grand Master Jin-sheng Tu, a Taiwan native and
one of the foremost qigong practitioners in the United States, claim they
have the ability to “emit” chi as a healing power.
Master Tu speaks little English and doesn’t call himself a shaman, but in
his self-styled qigong garb, he certainly looks like one, a bandana covering
his long, thick black locks, tight breeches tucked into thigh-high lace-up
boots with pointed toes that curled over on the tips like an elf’s shoes.
When I first met him, he was balancing on eggs in his bare feet while
painting a fairly accurate watercolor of Bodhidharma, who brought Zen
Buddhism to China.
“Where does chi come from?” I asked through an interpreter.
Rather than speaking, Master Tu held up his left arm as if he were waving
goodbye and made a little clutching motion at the air. He pointed his index
finger straight up, like he was testing the wind. Then, through the
interpreter, he asked me to hold out my right palm. He lowered his index
finger to the precise center of my palm, and when we touched, a jolt of
energy lasting five seconds or so passed into my hand, not unlike this shock
you’d feel if you touched your tongue on both terminals of a 9-volt battery.
Master Tu had given me a fresh shot of chi.
He never really told me where chi comes from, but I think I’ve got it
figured out by now. It comes right out of the air we breath, flowing back
and forth between ordinary and nonordinary reality, occasionally making
itself known to those who are willing to do the work in its purest form: the
mindless divinity, that infinite void from which no frame of reference could
be drawn that I dreamed of so long ago.

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] a little personal gloating… =)
Date: July 18, 2004 at 2:24:50 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

more
specifically, i plan on studying drugs and addictions.<

rock on.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2004 12:19 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] a little personal gloating… =)

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

Jon, That is great news!!!!!  Congratulations!
Which school you going to and what you studying  specifically?
I am proud of you, hope you are proud of yourself,  Callie

oh sorry, somehow i forgot to answer this one =)

i’ll be going to towson university to study experimental psychology; more
specifically, i plan on studying drugs and addictions.

thanx for the congrats =)

jon

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From: “jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] a little personal gloating… =)
Date: July 18, 2004 at 2:16:55 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

This is wonderful news, Jon.  Your chosen field of study is very
RIGHT!!  Keep us informed all the way along.  Think of the fun
you will have arguing with your instructors 🙂  Probably none of
them will understand what you are trying to explain to them but
it gives you a great opportunity to educate.  All the research
Howard has engaged in will come in very handy when you
have paper after paper to write 🙂

eheh. thanx for the encouragement =)

howard has already been very helpful to me; the first paper i ever had
published was on ibogaine, and it was tremendously helpful having his
insight and support.

about arguing with instructors, that kinda ties in with the main reason  i
chose to go with research instead of becoming a drug consellor or
something. since i’ve been through addiction treatment (at length..ehe) i
know first hand how broken it is (at least in this country). by doing
research, i hope i’ll have the chance to figure out better ways of going
about it. i know i’ll probably come up against a good deal of resistance..
you know, for thinking things  like addicts should be treated with
compassion and respect..eheh. but i did have a very pleasant experience at
UMBC when i was an undergrad. the chair of the psych program there, carlo
diclemente, is a kinda a bigwig in addiction, and he was the one who let
me do an independent study on ibogaine. i also told him that i was a
recoverying junky, and he has been very supportive over the years.. he
even wrote one of my recommendations for grad school.

so there are some people in the field who are really caring and open
minded… there’s some hope yet =)

jon

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From: Marko <marko@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Contact List Not Forum
Date: July 18, 2004 at 2:09:10 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Carla,

it’s sacrament@mindvox.com

You have to subscribe first with blank E-mail to

sacrament-subscribe@mindvox.com

and a friendly software (working for Patrick) will tell you what to do…

It seems this list will be alive *soon*! It’s resting at the moment ;-))

Marko

On Sun, 18 Jul 2004, Carla Barnes wrote:

This reminds me of something else! What is the address
to sign up to the after ibogaine list on Mindvox? The
main list is so huge now I think it would be nice to
start using it for why it was started, so people who
have already done ibogaine could talk about what we’re
doing to stay clean or just talk!

Thank you

Carla B

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From: “jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] kerry on drugs
Date: July 18, 2004 at 2:07:43 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

I don’t want Kerry but if I vote for some green party
candidate or don’t vote at all and we get more Bush
I’m going to feel like it was at least part my fault.
I don’t want the guilt from that! 🙂

ehehe… that’s one of the benefits of living in maryland. i can vote for
my libertarian guy and still know the electoral votes won’t go to bush =)

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From: “CallieMimosa” <CallieMimosa@aol.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re:
Date: July 18, 2004 at 2:42:00 PM EDT
To: “Ibogaine” <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Lovely animals

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From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] a little personal gloating… =)
Date: July 18, 2004 at 1:22:15 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This is wonderful news, Jon.  Your chosen field of study is very
RIGHT!!  Keep us informed all the way along.  Think of the fun
you will have arguing with your instructors 🙂  Probably none of
them will understand what you are trying to explain to them but
it gives you a great opportunity to educate.  All the research
Howard has engaged in will come in very handy when you
have paper after paper to write 🙂

ann
think@francomm.com

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

Jon, That is great news!!!!!  Congratulations!
Which school you going to and what you studying  specifically?
I am proud of you, hope you are proud of yourself,  Callie

oh sorry, somehow i forgot to answer this one =)

i’ll be going to towson university to study experimental psychology; more
specifically, i plan on studying drugs and addictions.

thanx for the congrats =)

jon

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] recent links at DrugWar.com
Date: July 18, 2004 at 1:17:44 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

HI all,
Just a reminder that I try to keep up with the daily postings of links
at DrugWar.com, in the leftbar, so here are some of the more recent linked
articles.
Peace,
Preston

Arrests made in biggest-ever area drug bust (July 18, 2004)
“Federal officials announced Friday details of three major drug trafficking
indictments naming 37 people and the arrest of 24 in connection with perhaps
the largest law-enforcement operation ever conducted in the Evansville
area.”

Volunteers take speed to test drug-driving devices (July 18, 2004)
“Researchers at Swinburne University are paying volunteers to take
methamphetamine, or speed, to test roadside drug-testing equipment that
police hope to be using by the end of the year.”

Proposed CISD drug testing policy (July 18, 2004)
“The District shall implement a mandatory drug testing program for all
students participating in extracurricular activities in grades 7-12.”

Parents, teens at odds over home drug tests (July 18, 2004)
“Kits, available online and at police departments, spark debate on trust.”

Schools torn between rules and fairness (July 18, 2004)
“Three decisions against zero-tolerance school sentences for drug, alcohol
and weapon violations have many school systems re-thinking their student
conduct policies. The latest decision came last week when a judge threw out
a 15-year-old Clay-Chalkville student’s sentence to 15 days in alternative
school for taking Motrin for menstrual cramps.”

Cannabis smokers take to streets (July 18, 2004)
“Campaigners have been holding a march and rally in Glasgow calling for the
legalisation of cannabis. The group, part of the Scottish Socialist Party,
has been campaigning to change the drug laws since 2000.”

Judge orders Love back in court (July 18, 2004)
The editor of DrugWar.com has long had a real soft spot for Courtney Love
and feels very badly that she is going through all this hell now.

Taser safety claim questioned (July 18, 2004)
There’s never a safe way to use force.

This Is Kerry On Drugs (July 17, 2004)
“For those who oppose the federal government’s disastrous war on drugs,
there are many things to dislike about the Bush Administration, not the
least of which is its shameless-and dangerous-use of the war on terror to
prop up the failed drug war and the accompanying $18 billion dollar
bureaucracy. And there is no indication that four more years of a Bush
presidency will offer anything but more of the same. But anyone who thinks a
vote for John Kerry means a vote for a more liberalized approach to drug
policy should think again.”

Courage in the Face of Death: The Thai Drug Users’ Network (July 17, 2004)
“The situation of Thai drug users worsened sharply in early 2003 when Prime
Minister Thaksin Shinawatra declared a ‘war on drugs’ that gave local
authorities and the police free reign, in Thaksin’s words, to deal in a
‘ruthless’ and ‘severe’ manner with persons charged with drug offenses.”

Local View: Ineffective, expensive drug war rages on (July 17, 2004)
“We just passed the halfway point of 2004 and it is time for an update on
the ‘war on drugs.’ Sad to say, it is still going strong. According to the
website www.drugsense.org, we have spent more than $20 billion so far this
year on this ‘war,’ putting us on a pace to surpass last’s year’s
expenditure of $39 billion.”

Prison warder planted drugs in inmate’s kit (July 17, 2004)
“David Allen, formerly a unit supervisor at Kilmarnock Prison, was convicted
of attempting to pervert the course of justice by planting a wrap of heroin
taken from one prisoner in the property of another.”

Journey from Hell (July 17, 2004)
“Maria Full of Grace is a small story, beautifully told, and one that homes
in on the collateral damage, the human cost of Colombia’s war on drugs. The
film makes its geopolitical points with relative understatement, however,
rooted as it is within the lives of deeply drawn characters. First and
foremost, Maria is a film about people, not polemics.”

Candidates discuss qualifications, issues (July 17, 2004)
Brandon Derr- “We must end the War on Drugs. It has caused such a
far-reaching devastation on our country it is difficult to grasp.”

New support group tackles war on drugs (July 17, 2004)
“From an initiative started by former police chief William Baker, the
Seabrook Police Department is starting a “Seabrook Drug Coalition of the
Willing” to help drug- and alcohol-addicted residents.”

Double dealing in war on drugs (July 17, 2004)
“The main theme of Douglas Valentine’s book is summed up in its subtitle:
the secret history of America’s war on drugs.”

Kill zone (July 17, 2004)
“Early on the morning of May 14, 2003, officers broke down the door to
68-year-old Timothy Brockman’s apartment, tossed in a stun grenade, blitzed
the residence with guns, gas masks and shields and rousted the old man from
bed. Surprisingly, no weapons or drugs were found in the possession of the
former Marine and retired factory worker.”

Governments urged not to shut out drug users (July 17, 2004)
“Governments are fuelling some of the world’s fastest growing HIV and Aids
epidemics by denying injecting drug users (IDUs) access to prevention and
care, labelling them as beyond help, researchers said on Thursday.”

Black residents don’t want War on Drugs to get out of hand (July 17, 2004)
“Leaders in Conroe’s black community gathered Monday night to ensure the
upcoming War on Drugs gets fought — as long as its a fair fight.”

Another Pain Doctor Indicted — Could Face Death Sentence (July 15, 2004)
“A Houston County, Georgia, grand jury has indicted Dr. Spurgeon Green on
six counts of murder in the deaths of patients, as well as numerous drug
charges relating to his prescribing of drugs to those patients.”

Former D.C. Officer Faces Drug Charges (July 13, 2004)
“Suspect Is Accused of Using and Selling Substances While in Uniform.”

The Drug Trade’s Entry-Level Employees (July 13, 2004- Free NYTimes
registration required)
A review of the film “Maria Full of Grace.”

A Fantastic Tale (July 13, 2004)
“Did warnings foretelling of an attack on American soil by Bin Laden’s crew
get lost in the War on Drugs or the US national and economic interest in
troublesome Turkey? It seems only Ms Edmonds knows.”

DARE To Kill Families (July 13, 2004)
“For their role in cuffing dope pushers and supporting the DARE program,
cops in one Massachusetts town were recently awarded a $1,000 by a local
drug-abuse prevention organization. A job well done: Only part of which
involved undermining the family and the relationship between parent and
child – but an important part.”

US Imperialism in Latin America (July 13, 2004)
What exactly are we up to down in Latin America anyway?

Posada tries to escape his fate (July 13, 2004)
Posada has made quite a career of working as a US-funded and supported
anti-Castro terrorist.

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From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] kerry on drugs
Date: July 18, 2004 at 12:35:07 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston I have a question for you because I feel the
same way. I don’t think Kerry is much better then
Bush, I liked Dean but what did that teach us, there
isn’t anyone who is really honest and not already sold
and paid for who will ever make it to president. I am
voting for Kerry because I am voting for anyone except
bush.

I don’t want Kerry but if I vote for some green party
candidate or don’t vote at all and we get more Bush
I’m going to feel like it was at least part my fault.
I don’t want the guilt from that! 🙂

What are you going to do? Morally I agree but now
what?

Carla B

— Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Thanks. We can do this, but I don’t want to not
vote, which is what that
basically will mean if I do that.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2004 3:21 PM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] kerry on drugs

Blanco means you don’t trust those politicians and
you don’t give them
your
vote.

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Verzonden: zaterdag 17 juli 2004 17:58
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [ibogaine] kerry on drugs

what do you mean BLANCO?
Like, not vote by saying that specifically on the
ballot?
I don’t want to do that either, as that is what
really cost everyone else
but Bush the election last time round (well, other
than for that whole
Florida and the Supreme Court thing that is), in
that less than 50 percent
of our eligible voters actually got off their fat
asses and voted for the
choices we were being offered by those who rule.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2004 6:44 AM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] kerry on drugs

Is it possible to vote  BLANCO ?

sara

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Verzonden: zaterdag 17 juli 2004 11:21
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com; drugwar@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: [ibogaine] kerry on drugs

sorry to those who feel that Kerry has simply
got to be better than
Bush,
as
I myself simply refuse any longer to throw my
freakin’ vote away on any
asshole who still supports the WOSDU in any way,
shape or form.
Peace,
Preston

http://www.reason.com/hod/dk071504.shtml

This Is Kerry On Drugs

Starve a peasant, feed a terrorist

Mike Krause and Dave Kopel

For those who oppose the federal government’s
disastrous war on drugs,
there
are many things to dislike about the Bush
Administration, not the least
of
which is its shameless-and dangerous-use of the
war on terror to prop up
the
failed drug war and the accompanying $18 billion
dollar bureaucracy. And
there is no indication that four more years of a
Bush presidency will
offer
anything but more of the same.
But anyone who thinks a vote for John Kerry
means a vote for a more
liberalized approach to drug policy should think
again. Candidate
Kerry’s
choice for Homeland Security Advisor, Rand
Beers, is a seasoned drug
warrior
who has already shown his loyalty to the well
being of the drug war, no
matter how many lives it destroys, or how many
narco- terrorists are
enriched along the way.
There are currently several drug-warriors
serving in decision making
posts
within the Bush Department of Homeland Security;
ex-DEA administrator
Asa
Hutchinson is now Under Secretary for Border and
Transportation
Security.
And another ex-DEA chief Robert Bonner is
Commissioner of the Bureau of
Customs and Border Protection.
Beers’ drug warrior credentials go way back. As
he put it in a 2002
deposition, “I first began to work in the
counter-narcotics area in 1988
when I was on the National Security Counsel
staff.”
More recently, before he quit his Bush White
House position as Special
Assistant to the President and Senior Director
for Combating Terrorism
and
joined the Kerry camp, he served in both the
Clinton and Bush
Administrations’ as Assistant Secretary of State
for International
Narcotics
and Law Enforcement Affairs; the top cop and
chief apologist for
America’s
war on drugs in Latin America.
He is also one of the architects of “Plan
Colombia,” the multi-billion
dollar militarization of the drug war in
Colombia (which is now funded
as
part of the “Andean Counterdrug Initiative”).
As Beers continued in his 2002 deposition,
“There was a series of
strategy
developments dating back, in terms of my
involvement, to a 1999
development
of a regional strategy for the Andean region. I
was involved in the
development of that strategy, and I had bits and
pieces to do with most
of
the further development from a variety of
different positions.”
The effects of Beers’ proud achievement are
worth looking at closely.
snip-

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__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Vote for the stars of Yahoo!’s next ad campaign!
http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/yahoo/votelifeengine/

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From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] a little personal gloating… =)
Date: July 18, 2004 at 12:28:38 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

congratulations jon! 🙂

Carla B

— “jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu> wrote:
In the United States alone, someone checks their
email every 3 seconds….

Jon, That is great news!!!!!  Congratulations!
Which school you going to and what you studying
specifically?
I am proud of you, hope you are proud of yourself,
Callie

oh sorry, somehow i forgot to answer this one =)

i’ll be going to towson university to study
experimental psychology; more
specifically, i plan on studying drugs and
addictions.

thanx for the congrats =)

jon

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__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Vote for the stars of Yahoo!’s next ad campaign!
http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/yahoo/votelifeengine/

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From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Contact List Not Forum
Date: July 18, 2004 at 12:27:54 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Patrick, I don’t know when it happened but between
last week and right now you’ve made the site start to
work with my computer 🙂 Could you add more sections
under Keeping Clean and make a contact list for people
who are up for being contacted after ibogaine and
don’t mind email? It would be nice to have one spot to
check and see who __wants__ to talk and not feel weird
sending out email

This reminds me of something else! What is the address
to sign up to the after ibogaine list on Mindvox? The
main list is so huge now I think it would be nice to
start using it for why it was started, so people who
have already done ibogaine could talk about what we’re
doing to stay clean or just talk!

Thank you

Carla B

— iboga@ziplip.com,
UNEXPECTED_DATA_AFTER_ADDRESS@.SYNTAX-ERROR. wrote:
I was referring to a contact list.  I assume
everyone knows how to easily find drug forums : )O>

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – 100MB free storage!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

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From: “jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] a little personal gloating… =)
Date: July 18, 2004 at 12:19:34 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

Jon, That is great news!!!!!  Congratulations!
Which school you going to and what you studying  specifically?
I am proud of you, hope you are proud of yourself,  Callie

oh sorry, somehow i forgot to answer this one =)

i’ll be going to towson university to study experimental psychology; more
specifically, i plan on studying drugs and addictions.

thanx for the congrats =)

jon

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From: iboga@ziplip.com <iboga@ziplip.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Contact List Not Forum
Date: July 18, 2004 at 11:31:38 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I was referring to a contact list.  I assume everyone knows how to easily find drug forums : )O
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From: iboga@ziplip.com <iboga@ziplip.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Help Make AfterCare List
Date: July 18, 2004 at 11:23:38 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Perhaps a list of different ‘aftercare’ people who are familier with iboga/ine would be a good thing to have?
Both for the people seeking that and the people who carry allot on shoulders.  I only know of a few so any help would be appreciated.  Some providers, obviously, have their own, but any options outside of provider?  How familier with iboga/ine are they and how much do they cost if anything?  Sliding Scale?  etc.
Willing to work by phone, e-mail or only in person?

I think a list of counselors/therapist/psych/friend etc. could perhaps do some good.

Any suggestions for people are most welcome.
1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111

—–Original Message—–
From: cw [mailto:chowlee@qwest.net]
Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2004, 7:07 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] for patrick who never answers email

How can I assist in making it a crusade?

—– Original Message —–
From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2004 6:09 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] for patrick who never answers email

In a message dated 7/17/04 6:39:55 PM, tara_sln@yahoo.co.uk writes:

When my parents can’t come up with another 10,000 for
the third time and I won’t be going to the next round
I find out that this beautiful person who made me hope
and believe truly doesn’t give a shit about me at all
because all the phone calls stop being answered and I
get dropped like a rock.

Let your fingers do the walking.  Use the cosmic phone book.

Ibogaine Treatment

I hear that ibogaine today is like trekking.  St Kitts, Mexico, Vancouver,
Gabon, Netherlands, Slovenia, Costa Rica, ships at sea….

A subtopic of my presentation at the fifth national harm reduction
conference
with be ethics, law and the ibogaine underground railroad, its historical
perspective.  The principal topic will be returning control of ibogaine to
drug
users.  Presently a topic rather than a crusade.

Howard

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From: <gboy@hush.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] for patrick who never answers email
Date: July 17, 2004 at 10:16:54 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—–
Hash: SHA1

For real dog. Girl what youre saying is you have a crush
on patrick your mad because when Mash found out your going
somewhere else to do ibogaine talking with you isnt his
job anymore. Take a number get in line why not leave the g
alone? I dont see him bothering anybody he runs all ths so
you got a place to run your mouth and then your on the rag
because he doesnt want to chat?

Get ibogaine somewhere big deal.

.g

On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 18:09:50 -0700 HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 7/17/04 6:39:55 PM, tara_sln@yahoo.co.uk writes:

When my parents can’t come up with another 10,000 for
the third time and I won’t be going to the next round
I find out that this beautiful person who made me hope
and believe truly doesn’t give a shit about me at all
because all the phone calls stop being answered and I
get dropped like a rock.

Let your fingers do the walking.  Use the cosmic phone book.

Ibogaine Treatment

I hear that ibogaine today is like trekking.  St Kitts, Mexico,

Vancouver,
Gabon, Netherlands, Slovenia, Costa Rica, ships at sea….

A subtopic of my presentation at the fifth national harm reduction

conference
with be ethics, law and the ibogaine underground railroad, its

historical
perspective.  The principal topic will be returning control of ibogaine

to drug
users.  Presently a topic rather than a crusade.

Howard

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From: “cw” <chowlee@qwest.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] for patrick who never answers email
Date: July 17, 2004 at 10:07:21 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

How can I assist in making it a crusade?

—– Original Message —–
From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2004 6:09 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] for patrick who never answers email

In a message dated 7/17/04 6:39:55 PM, tara_sln@yahoo.co.uk writes:

When my parents can’t come up with another 10,000 for
the third time and I won’t be going to the next round
I find out that this beautiful person who made me hope
and believe truly doesn’t give a shit about me at all
because all the phone calls stop being answered and I
get dropped like a rock.

Let your fingers do the walking.  Use the cosmic phone book.

Ibogaine Treatment

I hear that ibogaine today is like trekking.  St Kitts, Mexico, Vancouver,
Gabon, Netherlands, Slovenia, Costa Rica, ships at sea….

A subtopic of my presentation at the fifth national harm reduction
conference
with be ethics, law and the ibogaine underground railroad, its historical
perspective.  The principal topic will be returning control of ibogaine to
drug
users.  Presently a topic rather than a crusade.

Howard

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] for patrick who never answers email
Date: July 17, 2004 at 9:09:50 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/17/04 6:39:55 PM, tara_sln@yahoo.co.uk writes:

When my parents can’t come up with another 10,000 for
the third time and I won’t be going to the next round
I find out that this beautiful person who made me hope
and believe truly doesn’t give a shit about me at all
because all the phone calls stop being answered and I
get dropped like a rock.

Let your fingers do the walking.  Use the cosmic phone book.

Ibogaine Treatment

I hear that ibogaine today is like trekking.  St Kitts, Mexico, Vancouver,
Gabon, Netherlands, Slovenia, Costa Rica, ships at sea….

A subtopic of my presentation at the fifth national harm reduction conference
with be ethics, law and the ibogaine underground railroad, its historical
perspective.  The principal topic will be returning control of ibogaine to drug
users.  Presently a topic rather than a crusade.

Howard

Howard

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From: “Tara s. N.” <tara_sln@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: [ibogaine] for patrick who never answers email
Date: July 17, 2004 at 7:36:44 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Patrick I don’t have that much to say to you because
it would fill 90 of these messages about all the
things that get said about you, Mash and all the rest.
Dr. Mash lies, period, She lies. When you say one
thing to one person, another thing to another person,
change what you said in the first place after that.
That’s called lying. She lies, not bends the truth or
changes dates, she lies. She lies to people’s parents
too.
You don’t lie, you’re some freak with a giant iq,
lights in their head who was lucky enough to be born
good looking and smart, you didn’t work at any of that
it happened. You’re so smart but even if you did
everything your way and beat addiction you have brain
damage. Instead of lying you don’t remember, you don’t
know, you don’t know, you don’t remember. That’s your
answer to everything.
All that is your business and your problem. I know
you are busy I think that’s the secret of your
recovery, being near you is identical to Mash, in 10
minutes your cellphone will ring 6 times, your beeper
will go off and youll get paged. If you are so
overloaded all the time you never have to deal with
anything.
What hurts is you are connected so much to something
so real. It doesn’t matter what Mash says or anyone
says or even what you say, you didn’t get it by what
anyone says or even what you’ve said but being in the
same room with you or on the phone it is like there is
something else really big and real that comes through
and your like this gate for it. I start to believe
that anything is possible, I start to believe in me
and to have hope.
When my parents can’t come up with another 10,000 for
the third time and I won’t be going to the next round
I find out that this beautiful person who made me hope
and believe truly doesn’t give a shit about me at all
because all the phone calls stop being answered and I
get dropped like a rock. Oh I’m stupid, I’m not
special this is just a job and patrick doesn’t have 5
minutes for me unless Mash tells him to talk to me.
Thanks so much. Darth Vader on acid and the Wicked
Witch is right. In case you don’t know it Patrick,
your being used and your being changed. This mom and
son routine became real, you’ve been in the middle of
this for 5 years now and in a lot of ways whatever you
were before, you’ve become just like her. Hope that
was what you wanted.

___________________________________________________________ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – sooooo many all-new ways to express yourself http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

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From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Activism & the Kerry Campaign
Date: July 17, 2004 at 6:26:05 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I think you guys should remember that Theresa Heinz did come back for
more Ibogaine lit after Ben Zippie gave her some at an
“environmentalists for kerry” forum in Madison. And that even though
we’ve never received any formal notice, having her on our side makes
it much more likely that ibo will get somewhere under Kerry. I mean,
this is a woman who reads scientific papers. Also, she could
singlehandedly pay to finish FDA approval of ibo thru one of her
charities, like the Tides Foundation.

So we’ve been trying to get some response from their health policy
people. It turns out to be a lot easier to get thru to the
environmental policy folk– the “rainforest medication that no one is
developing because no one can make a profit on a natural molecule”
route. What complicates things is that ibo falls in between
environmental, health and law enforcement (Rand Beers) bailiwicks–
which means no one wants to claim this orphan (drug).

If you want to help, contact Madhu Chugh (no shit) their health care
policy director. Email here at mchugh@americansforkerry.com  with the
letter I asked people to fax a couple of weeks back. The good news is
that N.Y. State OASAS has updated their webside to include the word
“methamphetamine” in the last line of the second paragraph.
http://www.oasas.state.ny.us/AdMed/meds/fyiibogaine.htm

I successfully lobbied Kipnis at OASAS and Stanley Glick by phone
just this week. So yr phone calls do matter. This simple correction
means we can now push 18 MC/ibogaine as an solution for the crystal
meth crisis that’s so big right now in the gay community AIDS
activist contingent.

Refer Kerry staffers to this URL. Point out that there’s no other
known treatment for stimulants. And show up at Kerry events with
SIGNS that say IBOGAINE TESTING NOW! That’s how ACT UP got needle
exchange endorsed by Clinton in October of ’92.

Dana/cnw

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From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junky Blues
Date: July 17, 2004 at 5:52:16 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

So that was you! I always wondered who was next to me when I was born rifling through the narcotic cabinet. There was no morphine left….only dilaudid and demerol!

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine sites and mindvox
Date: July 17, 2004 at 5:48:40 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

It definitely would help some. That’s the thing with addiction/abuse. There isn’t ONE thing that could help everybody. Even the same person might need a different tactic on a different day. It’s very individualistic but you are correct. Sometimes people overindulge their misery by dwelling on it when a simple solution might be right in front of them!

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] getting dosed (abused) in the ER
Date: July 17, 2004 at 5:41:18 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Feel free Julian.
Just let me know if you do use it for anything obviously.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2004 4:25 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] getting dosed (abused) in the ER

It’s this type of shit, and all of you out there have your own horror story
to tell, that need to be told to the world. I know that most of you think it
would do no good but I want to write a book of the medical horror stories
all of you experienced! If you would like to contribute to this, let me know
and we’ll talk off site. I am dead serious about this. I hope alot of you
will let me tell your story.

Regards,

Julian

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] kerry on drugs
Date: July 17, 2004 at 5:39:11 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks. We can do this, but I don’t want to not vote, which is what that
basically will mean if I do that.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2004 3:21 PM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] kerry on drugs

Blanco means you don’t trust those politicians and you don’t give them
your
vote.

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Verzonden: zaterdag 17 juli 2004 17:58
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [ibogaine] kerry on drugs

what do you mean BLANCO?
Like, not vote by saying that specifically on the ballot?
I don’t want to do that either, as that is what really cost everyone else
but Bush the election last time round (well, other than for that whole
Florida and the Supreme Court thing that is), in that less than 50 percent
of our eligible voters actually got off their fat asses and voted for the
choices we were being offered by those who rule.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2004 6:44 AM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] kerry on drugs

Is it possible to vote  BLANCO ?

sara

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Verzonden: zaterdag 17 juli 2004 11:21
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com; drugwar@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: [ibogaine] kerry on drugs

sorry to those who feel that Kerry has simply got to be better than
Bush,
as
I myself simply refuse any longer to throw my freakin’ vote away on any
asshole who still supports the WOSDU in any way, shape or form.
Peace,
Preston

http://www.reason.com/hod/dk071504.shtml

This Is Kerry On Drugs

Starve a peasant, feed a terrorist

Mike Krause and Dave Kopel

For those who oppose the federal government’s disastrous war on drugs,
there
are many things to dislike about the Bush Administration, not the least
of
which is its shameless-and dangerous-use of the war on terror to prop up
the
failed drug war and the accompanying $18 billion dollar bureaucracy. And
there is no indication that four more years of a Bush presidency will
offer
anything but more of the same.
But anyone who thinks a vote for John Kerry means a vote for a more
liberalized approach to drug policy should think again. Candidate
Kerry’s
choice for Homeland Security Advisor, Rand Beers, is a seasoned drug
warrior
who has already shown his loyalty to the well being of the drug war, no
matter how many lives it destroys, or how many narco- terrorists are
enriched along the way.
There are currently several drug-warriors serving in decision making
posts
within the Bush Department of Homeland Security; ex-DEA administrator
Asa
Hutchinson is now Under Secretary for Border and Transportation
Security.
And another ex-DEA chief Robert Bonner is Commissioner of the Bureau of
Customs and Border Protection.
Beers’ drug warrior credentials go way back. As he put it in a 2002
deposition, “I first began to work in the counter-narcotics area in 1988
when I was on the National Security Counsel staff.”
More recently, before he quit his Bush White House position as Special
Assistant to the President and Senior Director for Combating Terrorism
and
joined the Kerry camp, he served in both the Clinton and Bush
Administrations’ as Assistant Secretary of State for International
Narcotics
and Law Enforcement Affairs; the top cop and chief apologist for
America’s
war on drugs in Latin America.
He is also one of the architects of “Plan Colombia,” the multi-billion
dollar militarization of the drug war in Colombia (which is now funded
as
part of the “Andean Counterdrug Initiative”).
As Beers continued in his 2002 deposition, “There was a series of
strategy
developments dating back, in terms of my involvement, to a 1999
development
of a regional strategy for the Andean region. I was involved in the
development of that strategy, and I had bits and pieces to do with most
of
the further development from a variety of different positions.”
The effects of Beers’ proud achievement are worth looking at closely.
snip-

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] looks and teeth on meth
Date: July 17, 2004 at 5:20:42 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

and if any one would know, it must be PK.
peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “D H” <dave@phantom.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2004 1:44 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] looks and teeth on meth

the mind is a terrible thing to taste…

=)

i heard it tastes like chicken.

but PK tells me it tastes like bacon.

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] kerry on drugs
Date: July 17, 2004 at 5:19:18 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Turns out even Ralph Nader is backed by the GOP.<

Well, in my own very humble opinion, as I just wrote to the DrugWar list,
It tells me they’ve bought into the whole “Nader cost Gore the election”
crapola too, when it’s still and always gonna have been those more than 50
percent who DID NOT VOTE AT ALL last time round who “cost” the election.
It tells me once again what thoughtless idiots the Republicans can often
be.<

Peace to all,
Preston (beer is a fine drug too ain’t it…on those very rare occasions
when I’m running really, really low on pain meds. Imagine, a legal
alternative that I won’t get arrested for using- although it’s not the best
idea with oh, hep c and all. Which is why I never drink except for extremely
rare occasions- like last night after the very loud rock n’ roll show.)

—– Original Message —–
From: “D H” <dave@phantom.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2004 1:40 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] kerry on drugs

Kerry is skull and bones, thru and thru.

just a different flavor than Bush.

if you think anyone who isn’t controlled by the grand puppeteers of the
new world order would ever make it to being nominated for a
presidential election, think again.

democracy is dead.

Turns out even Ralph Nader is backed by the GOP.

welcome, to the machine.

sorry to those who feel that Kerry has simply got to be better than
Bush, as
I myself simply refuse any longer to throw my freakin’ vote away on any
asshole who still supports the WOSDU in any way, shape or form.
Peace,
Preston

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] (OT!) Re: [ibogaine] looks and teeth on meth
Date: July 17, 2004 at 5:02:17 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yeah, they do kick ass, but it’s weird how much quieter the MP3s are than
the live show, how much tamer (well, relatively I suppose) they sound
through my little speakers.
Hmmm, could be the huge stacks I was standing about 5 feet in front of last
night, without plugs. Ouch was almost cutting it, but not quite.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2004 1:29 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] looks and teeth on meth

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

says that ministry guy on that great ministry album.
btw, anyone who cares, check out the band Joker Five Speed, out of the
Lower
East Side. One of the rockinest freakin live acts I’ve had the pleasure
to
see/hear/be braindamaged by in years- ranking up there with say, Monster
Magnet, for those who know how I feel about them. Caught them at a
packed
CBGBs last night- holy moley, what a show that was! I mean it, if you
see
these guys come to your town, go see them. Make the effort. Amazing
show.
Just loud rock n’ roll, no frills at all. Incredible almost covers the
show
last night.
Peace,
Preston

nice that they’ve got some full mp3s on their site… i’m not usually too
into straight up r0ck, but these guys do seem pretty kick ass  =)

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From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] getting dosed (abused) in the ER
Date: July 17, 2004 at 4:25:46 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

It’s this type of shit, and all of you out there have your own horror story to tell, that need to be told to the world. I know that most of you think it would do no good but I want to write a book of the medical horror stories all of you experienced! If you would like to contribute to this, let me know and we’ll talk off site. I am dead serious about this. I hope alot of you will let me tell your story.
Regards,
Julian

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Sara and Iboga/Ibogaine
Date: July 17, 2004 at 4:18:18 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sara, I am so embarassed! In my book, I have your correct address but for some reason I forgot to write the .nl part. I will call you tomorrow. Thank you very much!
I guess that means you don’t actually hate me. HaHaHa?

Sincerely,
Julian

From: iboga@ziplip.com <iboga@ziplip.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Speed & Iboga/ine Search Non-Sense
Date: July 17, 2004 at 3:50:48 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.google.com/custom?q=amphetamine&btnG=Google+Search&hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&cof=AWFID%3A756f23ca939b1178%3BL%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.ibogaine.org%2Fgraphics%2Fibogaine.jpg%3BLH%3A71%3BLW%3A501%3BAH%3Acenter%3BS%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.ibogaine.org%3B&domains=www.ibogaine.org&sitesearch=www.ibogaine.org
http://ca.search.yahoo.com/search/ca?p=%22ibogaine+for+amphetamine%22&ei=UTF-8&vm=i&n=20&fl=0&x=wrt&vc=
—————————————————————————————————————————–
Palpitations
Palatable
Cutting Impact
Nerve Jaw Ear
Pickled Head
Ache High Dose
PM
CDP 0777 7 46404 2 8 8312142 Capital
EKG EEG Etc
Slow Motion Seizure Rhythem
Light Flash
Measure Inhale
Pool
Inhale Chlorine
Breathing Without 4 Minutes
Left Side
Stand
Remember?
Good Knee Bad Knee
Tendon Replace Muscle
Concrete Veins
Rolls For Amphetamine Manufacturers
Lawn Well Baby Jessica
Tickle
Sound Of Locust
Stretch
Type Beats Per Minute = Words Per Time Zone Displacement
Control
Battery Electric Beep Duration
Grid Confuse Map As Territory
Build GEconomic Dependence on WMD Sales
Military 4 Hire 4 Director 4 Bank
4 Branch 4 Wind Move Leaves
3 almost Separ8
Apartment Hunt
Step Stranger Again
HEA Turn Tough On Jobless
Rate
Interest
Public
Private Matter
Mass
Liability
Ass Set
And Lemming
Cliff Tech Ra Cloud
Vapor Eyes Pack Box Rat Disk Skip
Read Pen
Memorize Parts By Design
Gathered While Pass In Street
Another Mesmer Eyes
Aggrandize
After Math 1 Does Not Equal 1 Bosh 2 Party System Cover All Elite
Haze Skull or Bones 1,001 Tran?
Blanket Quilt Pillow Tree
Glossy Plastic
Build Own Paper Spaceship
Make Satellites Check
And Balances Teditorial Turner
GOP “Fiscal Conservative” Drug War Budget Increase Anticipate Reaction
Union Boss Paid Dues
In Yang Currency

leap.cc
Adapt And Overcome Get Stronger Listen More Understand Better
Build Aben
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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] kerry on drugs
Date: July 17, 2004 at 3:21:05 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Blanco means you don’t trust those politicians and you don’t give them your
vote.

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Verzonden: zaterdag 17 juli 2004 17:58
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [ibogaine] kerry on drugs

what do you mean BLANCO?
Like, not vote by saying that specifically on the ballot?
I don’t want to do that either, as that is what really cost everyone else
but Bush the election last time round (well, other than for that whole
Florida and the Supreme Court thing that is), in that less than 50 percent
of our eligible voters actually got off their fat asses and voted for the
choices we were being offered by those who rule.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2004 6:44 AM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] kerry on drugs

Is it possible to vote  BLANCO ?

sara

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Verzonden: zaterdag 17 juli 2004 11:21
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com; drugwar@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: [ibogaine] kerry on drugs

sorry to those who feel that Kerry has simply got to be better than Bush,
as
I myself simply refuse any longer to throw my freakin’ vote away on any
asshole who still supports the WOSDU in any way, shape or form.
Peace,
Preston

http://www.reason.com/hod/dk071504.shtml

This Is Kerry On Drugs

Starve a peasant, feed a terrorist

Mike Krause and Dave Kopel

For those who oppose the federal government’s disastrous war on drugs,
there
are many things to dislike about the Bush Administration, not the least of
which is its shameless-and dangerous-use of the war on terror to prop up
the
failed drug war and the accompanying $18 billion dollar bureaucracy. And
there is no indication that four more years of a Bush presidency will
offer
anything but more of the same.
But anyone who thinks a vote for John Kerry means a vote for a more
liberalized approach to drug policy should think again. Candidate Kerry’s
choice for Homeland Security Advisor, Rand Beers, is a seasoned drug
warrior
who has already shown his loyalty to the well being of the drug war, no
matter how many lives it destroys, or how many narco- terrorists are
enriched along the way.
There are currently several drug-warriors serving in decision making posts
within the Bush Department of Homeland Security; ex-DEA administrator Asa
Hutchinson is now Under Secretary for Border and Transportation Security.
And another ex-DEA chief Robert Bonner is Commissioner of the Bureau of
Customs and Border Protection.
Beers’ drug warrior credentials go way back. As he put it in a 2002
deposition, “I first began to work in the counter-narcotics area in 1988
when I was on the National Security Counsel staff.”
More recently, before he quit his Bush White House position as Special
Assistant to the President and Senior Director for Combating Terrorism and
joined the Kerry camp, he served in both the Clinton and Bush
Administrations’ as Assistant Secretary of State for International
Narcotics
and Law Enforcement Affairs; the top cop and chief apologist for America’s
war on drugs in Latin America.
He is also one of the architects of “Plan Colombia,” the multi-billion
dollar militarization of the drug war in Colombia (which is now funded as
part of the “Andean Counterdrug Initiative”).
As Beers continued in his 2002 deposition, “There was a series of strategy
developments dating back, in terms of my involvement, to a 1999
development
of a regional strategy for the Andean region. I was involved in the
development of that strategy, and I had bits and pieces to do with most of
the further development from a variety of different positions.”
The effects of Beers’ proud achievement are worth looking at closely.
snip-

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From: “jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] email underestimation
Date: July 17, 2004 at 2:55:42 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

In a message dated 7/17/04 11:56:30 AM, jfreed1@umbc.edu writes:

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds..

Jon,

U can’t believe that is not an underestimation.

eheh…. no i don’t =)

it’s from this online cartoon.. there’s one character, StrongBad, that
answers “readers’ emails” every week or so, and he always starts the
cartoon out with some catch phrase about email. one of them was in that
documentary style sort of voice… “In the United States alone, someone
checks their emails every three seconds. This, is one of them…”

it’s a pretty funny cartoon.. if you get bored sometime check it out…

www.homestarrunner.com/sbemail.html

=)

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] email underestimation
Date: July 17, 2004 at 2:35:57 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/17/04 11:56:30 AM, jfreed1@umbc.edu writes:

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds..

Jon,

U can’t believe that is not an underestimation.

H

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From: “Michael Maxey” <mike2boys@msn.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Question?
Date: July 17, 2004 at 2:25:14 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thank you so much for all the help.  I am very Greatful I belong to this group.  I am also good Friends with my Pharmist who helps.  Thank you  Mike
—– Original Message —–
From: jon
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 4:38 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Question?

> Hello all, The other Day My Pyschystrist prescribed me Aderall 10mg 4
> daily. what is that? He took my Rilitilin and put me on this.  My wife say
> it is like speed. If so what I am trying to figure out is how is it that I
> am Valium 10 mg 60 month  Ambein 10mg 30 month and now Adirall 120 month,
> plus my Duragesic patch 100ugh every 3 days  and my oxy ir 5  4 times
> daily. Neurontin 800mg 4 day now, Man is there really good products out
> there to protect my internal and Physical Health. Seriously is there
> something  I can get prescribed or  over counter herbal etc  that I can
> take to protect keep my body safe?  Mike

You’re wife is right, both ritalin and adderall are CNS stimulants.
Adderall is a combination of amphetamines, while ritalin is related to
amphetamines, but isn’t quite one. Adderall is more potent than ritalin,
but less potent than street amphetamines.

With all the medications you’re on, it would probably be a good idea to do
some kinda internal cleansing routine. There are a number of things you
can get at a health store to clean out your liver; the best are probably
milk thistle, dandelion, and beet root juice. It wouldn’t hurt to do some
of those colon cleansing things as well, but I think the liver cleansing
would probably be more important.

There are also a few things you should probably avoid… It would be best
not to drink alcohol at all, but if you are going to drink, definately do
so only in moderation. Not only have a number of people died from
combining alcohol with drugs like valium and such (marilyn monroe and john
belushi, for instance) but even in non-fatal cases it’s very hard on the
liver. It would probably be wise to avoid other stimulants as much as you
can, or take them in moderation at least.. nicotine, caffeine, etc. And
you should also probably be careful with any over the counter medications
you take, especially cold medicines (because they also generally contain
speed-like drugs). I’d ask a pharmacist before you take anything else.

Anyway, hope this helps.

good luck

jon

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From: “jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ??????????????
Date: July 17, 2004 at 1:57:19 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

Why am I geting 100’s of e-mails that donot even pertain to me ? how can I
make them stop????

You must sacrfice a chicken to the great internet gods.

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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] looks and teeth on meth
Date: July 17, 2004 at 1:44:14 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

the mind is a terrible thing to taste…

=)

i heard it tastes like chicken.

but PK tells me it tastes like bacon.

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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junky Blues
Date: July 17, 2004 at 1:42:36 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Saturday, July 17, 2004, at 05:55 AM, Preston Peet wrote:

LOL,
Oh my goodness, I’ve thinking along these same lines lately.
Don’t remember it, but I’m sure it happened too.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2004 5:49 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] Junky Blues

I really can’t remember that far back but I would guess that my first
thought as the Dr. held me by my ankles and smacked me on the ass, I took
one look around that hospital operating room and thought,”wonder where they
keep the morphine.’     Randy

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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junky Blues
Date: July 17, 2004 at 1:42:34 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

yep.

my first taste was when i was 2 years old w/ spinal meningitis. i clearly remember the nurse rolling me on my side and the jab in the ass, then bliss.

_.dh

On Saturday, July 17, 2004, at 05:55 AM, Preston Peet wrote:

LOL,
Oh my goodness, I’ve thinking along these same lines lately.
Don’t remember it, but I’m sure it happened too.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2004 5:49 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] Junky Blues

I really can’t remember that far back but I would guess that my first
thought as the Dr. held me by my ankles and smacked me on the ass, I took
one look around that hospital operating room and thought,”wonder where they
keep the morphine.’     Randy

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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] kerry on drugs
Date: July 17, 2004 at 1:40:42 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Kerry is skull and bones, thru and thru.

just a different flavor than Bush.

if you think anyone who isn’t controlled by the grand puppeteers of the new world order would ever make it to being nominated for a presidential election, think again.

democracy is dead.

Turns out even Ralph Nader is backed by the GOP.

welcome, to the machine.

sorry to those who feel that Kerry has simply got to be better than Bush, as
I myself simply refuse any longer to throw my freakin’ vote away on any
asshole who still supports the WOSDU in any way, shape or form.
Peace,
Preston

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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] kerry on drugs
Date: July 17, 2004 at 1:33:49 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I leaning toward Libertarian….at least their stand on the War on Drugs is in the right place..and legalization as well.  Although I caught their convention on CSPAN, and it was a little painful to watch.  But political conventions suck anyway.  I plan to protest outside a big here in September:)

sean

From: “jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] looks and teeth on meth
Date: July 17, 2004 at 1:29:44 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

says that ministry guy on that great ministry album.
btw, anyone who cares, check out the band Joker Five Speed, out of the Lower
East Side. One of the rockinest freakin live acts I’ve had the pleasure to
see/hear/be braindamaged by in years- ranking up there with say, Monster
Magnet, for those who know how I feel about them. Caught them at a packed
CBGBs last night- holy moley, what a show that was! I mean it, if you see
these guys come to your town, go see them. Make the effort. Amazing show.
Just loud rock n’ roll, no frills at all. Incredible almost covers the show
last night.
Peace,
Preston

nice that they’ve got some full mp3s on their site… i’m not usually too
into straight up r0ck, but these guys do seem pretty kick ass  =)

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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junky Blues
Date: July 17, 2004 at 1:26:05 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Randy,

The babies of 2004 look for oxy:)

sean

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junky Blues
Date: July 17, 2004 at 1:17:01 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

apparently, when william s burroughs went into the hospital sometime i
think in the late 80’s for open heart surgery, the doc wrote on his chart
“Give Mr Burroughs all the morphine he wants”<

Someday I can definitely imagine this happening to me.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2004 1:09 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junky Blues

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

LOL,
Oh my goodness, I’ve thinking along these same lines lately.
Don’t remember it, but I’m sure it happened too.
Peace,
Preston

eheh… this isn’t really related, but it made me think of it…

apparently, when william s burroughs went into the hospital sometime i
think in the late 80’s for open heart surgery, the doc wrote on his chart
“Give Mr Burroughs all the morphine he wants”

=)

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] looks and teeth on meth
Date: July 17, 2004 at 1:14:44 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

says that ministry guy on that great ministry album.
btw, anyone who cares, check out the band Joker Five Speed, out of the Lower
East Side. One of the rockinest freakin live acts I’ve had the pleasure to
see/hear/be braindamaged by in years- ranking up there with say, Monster
Magnet, for those who know how I feel about them. Caught them at a packed
CBGBs last night- holy moley, what a show that was! I mean it, if you see
these guys come to your town, go see them. Make the effort. Amazing show.
Just loud rock n’ roll, no frills at all. Incredible almost covers the show
last night.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2004 1:03 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] looks and teeth on meth

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

the mind is a terrible thing to lose!

I’m still looking for my marbles me-self.

the mind is a terrible thing to taste…

=)

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From: “jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junky Blues
Date: July 17, 2004 at 1:09:17 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

LOL,
Oh my goodness, I’ve thinking along these same lines lately.
Don’t remember it, but I’m sure it happened too.
Peace,
Preston

eheh… this isn’t really related, but it made me think of it…

apparently, when william s burroughs went into the hospital sometime i
think in the late 80’s for open heart surgery, the doc wrote on his chart
“Give Mr Burroughs all the morphine he wants”

=)

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From: “jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] kerry on drugs
Date: July 17, 2004 at 1:06:44 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

Is it possible to vote  BLANCO ?

there’s always write in votes..

which reminds me, anyone ever seen that old richard pryor movie Brewster’s
Millions?

vote NONE OF THE ABOVE!

=)

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From: “jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] looks and teeth on meth
Date: July 17, 2004 at 1:03:22 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

the mind is a terrible thing to lose!

I’m still looking for my marbles me-self.

the mind is a terrible thing to taste…

=)

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From: “jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: on another note…
Date: July 17, 2004 at 12:56:03 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

yep,

there’s a great picture of Rumsfeld shaking hands with Sadam I think
from that time period.

Thats why the Bush Regime just “knew” he had all those weapons. They
were either destroyed or they are stashed somewhere in Syria.

the surfacing of WMD’s and the “capture” of Osama is BushCo’s trump
card for re-election. Barring that, the next terrorist “attack[s]” will
cancel the election.

all i have to say is that i am SO moving canada after school…

heh..

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junky Blues
Date: July 17, 2004 at 12:15:55 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/17/2004 4:50:20 AM Central Daylight Time, BiscuitBoy714@aol.com writes:
I really can’t remember that far back but I would guess that my first thought as the Dr. held me by my ankles and smacked me on the ass, I took one look around that hospital operating room and thought,”wonder where they keep the morphine.’

hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Callie *wiping tears from eyes*

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] kerry on drugs
Date: July 17, 2004 at 11:57:38 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

what do you mean BLANCO?
Like, not vote by saying that specifically on the ballot?
I don’t want to do that either, as that is what really cost everyone else
but Bush the election last time round (well, other than for that whole
Florida and the Supreme Court thing that is), in that less than 50 percent
of our eligible voters actually got off their fat asses and voted for the
choices we were being offered by those who rule.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2004 6:44 AM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] kerry on drugs

Is it possible to vote  BLANCO ?

sara

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Verzonden: zaterdag 17 juli 2004 11:21
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com; drugwar@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: [ibogaine] kerry on drugs

sorry to those who feel that Kerry has simply got to be better than Bush,
as
I myself simply refuse any longer to throw my freakin’ vote away on any
asshole who still supports the WOSDU in any way, shape or form.
Peace,
Preston

http://www.reason.com/hod/dk071504.shtml

This Is Kerry On Drugs

Starve a peasant, feed a terrorist

Mike Krause and Dave Kopel

For those who oppose the federal government’s disastrous war on drugs,
there
are many things to dislike about the Bush Administration, not the least of
which is its shameless-and dangerous-use of the war on terror to prop up
the
failed drug war and the accompanying $18 billion dollar bureaucracy. And
there is no indication that four more years of a Bush presidency will
offer
anything but more of the same.
But anyone who thinks a vote for John Kerry means a vote for a more
liberalized approach to drug policy should think again. Candidate Kerry’s
choice for Homeland Security Advisor, Rand Beers, is a seasoned drug
warrior
who has already shown his loyalty to the well being of the drug war, no
matter how many lives it destroys, or how many narco- terrorists are
enriched along the way.
There are currently several drug-warriors serving in decision making posts
within the Bush Department of Homeland Security; ex-DEA administrator Asa
Hutchinson is now Under Secretary for Border and Transportation Security.
And another ex-DEA chief Robert Bonner is Commissioner of the Bureau of
Customs and Border Protection.
Beers’ drug warrior credentials go way back. As he put it in a 2002
deposition, “I first began to work in the counter-narcotics area in 1988
when I was on the National Security Counsel staff.”
More recently, before he quit his Bush White House position as Special
Assistant to the President and Senior Director for Combating Terrorism and
joined the Kerry camp, he served in both the Clinton and Bush
Administrations’ as Assistant Secretary of State for International
Narcotics
and Law Enforcement Affairs; the top cop and chief apologist for America’s
war on drugs in Latin America.
He is also one of the architects of “Plan Colombia,” the multi-billion
dollar militarization of the drug war in Colombia (which is now funded as
part of the “Andean Counterdrug Initiative”).
As Beers continued in his 2002 deposition, “There was a series of strategy
developments dating back, in terms of my involvement, to a 1999
development
of a regional strategy for the Andean region. I was involved in the
development of that strategy, and I had bits and pieces to do with most of
the further development from a variety of different positions.”
The effects of Beers’ proud achievement are worth looking at closely.
snip-

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junky Blues
Date: July 17, 2004 at 11:55:50 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

LOL,
Oh my goodness, I’ve thinking along these same lines lately.
Don’t remember it, but I’m sure it happened too.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2004 5:49 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] Junky Blues

I really can’t remember that far back but I would guess that my first
thought as the Dr. held me by my ankles and smacked me on the ass, I took
one look around that hospital operating room and thought,”wonder where they
keep the morphine.’     Randy

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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] kerry on drugs
Date: July 17, 2004 at 6:44:40 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Is it possible to vote  BLANCO ?

sara

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Verzonden: zaterdag 17 juli 2004 11:21
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com; drugwar@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: [ibogaine] kerry on drugs

sorry to those who feel that Kerry has simply got to be better than Bush, as
I myself simply refuse any longer to throw my freakin’ vote away on any
asshole who still supports the WOSDU in any way, shape or form.
Peace,
Preston

http://www.reason.com/hod/dk071504.shtml

This Is Kerry On Drugs

Starve a peasant, feed a terrorist

Mike Krause and Dave Kopel

For those who oppose the federal government’s disastrous war on drugs, there
are many things to dislike about the Bush Administration, not the least of
which is its shameless-and dangerous-use of the war on terror to prop up the
failed drug war and the accompanying $18 billion dollar bureaucracy. And
there is no indication that four more years of a Bush presidency will offer
anything but more of the same.
But anyone who thinks a vote for John Kerry means a vote for a more
liberalized approach to drug policy should think again. Candidate Kerry’s
choice for Homeland Security Advisor, Rand Beers, is a seasoned drug warrior
who has already shown his loyalty to the well being of the drug war, no
matter how many lives it destroys, or how many narco- terrorists are
enriched along the way.
There are currently several drug-warriors serving in decision making posts
within the Bush Department of Homeland Security; ex-DEA administrator Asa
Hutchinson is now Under Secretary for Border and Transportation Security.
And another ex-DEA chief Robert Bonner is Commissioner of the Bureau of
Customs and Border Protection.
Beers’ drug warrior credentials go way back. As he put it in a 2002
deposition, “I first began to work in the counter-narcotics area in 1988
when I was on the National Security Counsel staff.”
More recently, before he quit his Bush White House position as Special
Assistant to the President and Senior Director for Combating Terrorism and
joined the Kerry camp, he served in both the Clinton and Bush
Administrations’ as Assistant Secretary of State for International Narcotics
and Law Enforcement Affairs; the top cop and chief apologist for America’s
war on drugs in Latin America.
He is also one of the architects of “Plan Colombia,” the multi-billion
dollar militarization of the drug war in Colombia (which is now funded as
part of the “Andean Counterdrug Initiative”).
As Beers continued in his 2002 deposition, “There was a series of strategy
developments dating back, in terms of my involvement, to a 1999 development
of a regional strategy for the Andean region. I was involved in the
development of that strategy, and I had bits and pieces to do with most of
the further development from a variety of different positions.”
The effects of Beers’ proud achievement are worth looking at closely.
snip-

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Junky Blues
Date: July 17, 2004 at 5:49:23 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I really can’t remember that far back but I would guess that my first thought as the Dr. held me by my ankles and smacked me on the ass, I took one look around that hospital operating room and thought,”wonder where they keep the morphine.’     Randy

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] kerry on drugs
Date: July 17, 2004 at 5:20:46 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

sorry to those who feel that Kerry has simply got to be better than Bush, as
I myself simply refuse any longer to throw my freakin’ vote away on any
asshole who still supports the WOSDU in any way, shape or form.
Peace,
Preston

http://www.reason.com/hod/dk071504.shtml

This Is Kerry On Drugs

Starve a peasant, feed a terrorist

Mike Krause and Dave Kopel

For those who oppose the federal government’s disastrous war on drugs, there
are many things to dislike about the Bush Administration, not the least of
which is its shameless-and dangerous-use of the war on terror to prop up the
failed drug war and the accompanying $18 billion dollar bureaucracy. And
there is no indication that four more years of a Bush presidency will offer
anything but more of the same.
But anyone who thinks a vote for John Kerry means a vote for a more
liberalized approach to drug policy should think again. Candidate Kerry’s
choice for Homeland Security Advisor, Rand Beers, is a seasoned drug warrior
who has already shown his loyalty to the well being of the drug war, no
matter how many lives it destroys, or how many narco- terrorists are
enriched along the way.
There are currently several drug-warriors serving in decision making posts
within the Bush Department of Homeland Security; ex-DEA administrator Asa
Hutchinson is now Under Secretary for Border and Transportation Security.
And another ex-DEA chief Robert Bonner is Commissioner of the Bureau of
Customs and Border Protection.
Beers’ drug warrior credentials go way back. As he put it in a 2002
deposition, “I first began to work in the counter-narcotics area in 1988
when I was on the National Security Counsel staff.”
More recently, before he quit his Bush White House position as Special
Assistant to the President and Senior Director for Combating Terrorism and
joined the Kerry camp, he served in both the Clinton and Bush
Administrations’ as Assistant Secretary of State for International Narcotics
and Law Enforcement Affairs; the top cop and chief apologist for America’s
war on drugs in Latin America.
He is also one of the architects of “Plan Colombia,” the multi-billion
dollar militarization of the drug war in Colombia (which is now funded as
part of the “Andean Counterdrug Initiative”).
As Beers continued in his 2002 deposition, “There was a series of strategy
developments dating back, in terms of my involvement, to a 1999 development
of a regional strategy for the Andean region. I was involved in the
development of that strategy, and I had bits and pieces to do with most of
the further development from a variety of different positions.”
The effects of Beers’ proud achievement are worth looking at closely.
snip-

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] looks and teeth on meth
Date: July 17, 2004 at 4:24:41 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I go for teeth missingt oo.
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: UUSEAN@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2004 1:39 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] looks and teeth on meth

Hi dh,

Thanks for the advice….I been ignoring them for about year now, and I have
dental insurance.  I used to say of all the things I’ve lost, I miss my mind
the most.

Sean

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From: “jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] getting dosed (abused) in the ER
Date: July 17, 2004 at 4:07:52 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

I’m trying, I’m trying…
;-))

eheh… sorry.. i should have also mentioned the writing you do, because i
think that’s also very important to getting addicts treated the way they
should be (that is, like human beings..)

I hate to admit this, but this is the first time I’ve heard Howard is
working towards this sort of thing.
I think I’ve not been paying attention or something.

that’s it, you’re cut off man =)

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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ??????????????
Date: July 17, 2004 at 2:15:39 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

What is this..all about you Mouse…what brought you here?

Just wondering.

Sean

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ??????????????
Date: July 17, 2004 at 1:59:07 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

there is no stopping it.

mooohahahahahahah

On Friday, July 16, 2004, at 07:46 PM, Mouse1500@aol.com wrote:

Why am I geting 100’s of e-mails that donot even pertain to me ? how can I make them stop????

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] looks and teeth on meth
Date: July 17, 2004 at 1:58:30 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

the mind is a terrible thing to lose!

I’m still looking for my marbles me-self.

On Friday, July 16, 2004, at 07:39 PM, UUSEAN@aol.com wrote:

Hi dh,

Thanks for the advice….I been ignoring them for about year now, and I have dental insurance.  I used to say of all the things I’ve lost, I miss my mind the most.

Sean

From: Mouse1500@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] ??????????????
Date: July 17, 2004 at 1:46:01 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Why am I geting 100’s of e-mails that donot even pertain to me ? how can I make them stop????

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] looks and teeth on meth
Date: July 17, 2004 at 1:39:20 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi dh,

Thanks for the advice….I been ignoring them for about year now, and I have dental insurance.  I used to say of all the things I’ve lost, I miss my mind the most.

Sean

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] looks and teeth on meth
Date: July 17, 2004 at 1:36:43 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

yeah, it sucked at the time… that was in 1997. I was tempted to go postal on their lilly white asses.

and speaking of teeth… my teeth stopped crumbling post ibogaine, altho the damage was done. I now have 2 gigantic upper bridges, we’ll see how long they last.

my biggest regret of all my drug years is not taking care of my teeth.

money comes and goes and comes around again, but your teeth don’t.

all you youngsters… take care of them while yah got ’em!

_.dh

HI DH,

See, addicts don’t pay tax and except for movie stars and rock and roll starts with big bucks don’t matter.  There was no reason to treat DH like that.  80 mg of meth would of cost less than $5.00.  Not only were they negligent but sarcastic ass holes, no need for it.  Now, if they had cancer or leukemia they would of got the gold card treatment.  Maybe in case of a terrorist act they could put them in a large prison for 6 months, but it is for their own good.  As one doc said it is a little uncomfortable.  But after 6 months they should be fine, and it is for their own good.  I have often talked about sarcastic docs and the bums rush.  This is the first time I’ve heard of the bums stay.  They thought it was funny that DH was gonna be sick as hell plus the next day was Sunday.  Are they docs or saddist?  Wait a minute, isn’t a persons medical history private?  What the hell they doing calling the cops saying we got a junkie here, even thou he is actively seeking treatment and taking met?  I would try some kind of lawsuit.  I wonder if the ACLU would do anything.  I think I would do something, don’t know what but something.  Anyone who has been there know two days without met it two days in hell.

Thank God DH went to a good clinic that checked.  Doctors lying like a bitch, that is sick.  Laughing, adding insult to injury.

– JIM

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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine sites and mindvox
Date: July 17, 2004 at 1:10:56 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey g,

If I had some herb I’d be smokin it.  Watched Vanilla Sky tonight on DVD,so I did the movie thing..  I’m on three email list all around ibogaine or the war on drugs.  Maybe I should get on a totally unrelated list to stay grounded.   Hell as much as I enjoy this list I won’t be finding ibogaine any time soon.  Dilemma…join another email list or score some weed hmmmmmmm

sean

From: <gboy@hush.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine sites and mindvox
Date: July 17, 2004 at 1:02:26 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

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Cool glad I did that at least. I dont know what a lot
of you all are going through but would it not help at
least some to smoke some herb and play a videogame or
watch a movie to take your mind off fiending?

I understand talking about everything does help out
and I learn a lot about addiction by reading here,
but doesn’t it help out too to just do something
else and zone out? peace.

.g

On Fri, 16 Jul 2004 21:46:47 -0700 UUSEAN@aol.com wrote:
Hi g,

I am laughing at your post about the support groups, but it’s
kind of
a guilty laugh if you know what I mean.  I am having a really tough

night here missing my drugs I guess, and I needed a laugh right about

now so thanks.

Sean
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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine sites and mindvox
Date: July 17, 2004 at 12:46:47 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi g,

I am laughing at your post about the support groups, but it’s kind of a guilty laugh if you know what I mean.  I am having a really tough night here missing my drugs I guess, and I needed a laugh right about now so thanks.

Sean

From: <gboy@hush.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine sites and mindvox
Date: July 17, 2004 at 12:24:28 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

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Hash: SHA1

Well duh. why dont you and crown of hippies start a support group
for people who write 10 mile long letters which say the obvious.

.g

On Fri, 16 Jul 2004 21:00:34 -0700 Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Thanks curtis that was interesting I guess 😉

I think the problem might be that most people aren’t looking for
ibogaine at all so there aren’t that many who are going to read
anything about it. I don’t know if the problem is finding something
on
ibogaine.org its more I read a few articles and my eyes glaze over.
Its
not too exciting is it, unless your addicted.

Mindvox is cool. That’s about it, it isn’t like it contains some
huge
treasure trove of useful info. It’s just cool as fuck, people load
it
up and read it which doesn’t have anything to do with useful high
information content.

Pubmed is useful but unless I want to find something on it it also
makes me  start to fall asleep. This isnt to say that Dr. Mash’s
200
papers about complex pharmacokinetics and desmethylyed ibogaine
fragments 1,2,1,2,-4,2,1b,-a-,b,z-alpha,beta,gamma-delta papers
are too
exciting. What’s cool is that the lady is insane enough to let Patrick
put all of it into a chrome plated glowing psychedelic melting purple
thing and it makes her happy. The melting thing is the official
science
site of the ibogaine research project of university of miami, that’s
cool 🙂

It doesn’t have too much content I can find either but it’s hitting
at
304,209 on alexa. Which is higher then any other ibogaine oriented
site
out there, including the much saner and ad filled ibogaine.net.
Nobody
links ibogaine net, everybody links ibo research.

I’m also sure that when Mash sees some of what’s on this list and
gets
said about her, she doesn’t sit in her office and cry. I think its
more
like she laughs her ass off. I’ve never seen her in anything when
shes
not wearing stiletto heels, hairdo, makeup, designer clothes. The
deborah and patrick show I am guessing is the deborah and patrick
show
partly because patrick makes her look really good because of what
he’s
overcome and hes really articulate, but I’m also sure a real big
part
is that having a 7″ foot tall prettyboy maniac with a high IQ and
track
marks from hell hanging around with her, makes her happy 🙂

She doesn’t strike me as someone who goes home and knits sweaters.
‘that’s my son!’ yeah I bet 😉 🙂

I dont think anyone not involved with ibogaine cares about the good
and
evil debates or even understands what anybody is talking about.
But the
deborah and patrick show is cool. Ibo research is cool. Mindvox
is
beyond cool. A lady who is a real phd and has this stack of science
with her name all over it who hangs around with mr. psychedelic
hacker
junkie who is 20 years younger then her, is cool. People without
phds
pretending to be scientists and writing these long dry papers, is
not
cool. Unless your interested in ibogaine itself nothing there is
going
to make you read any further. Its boring.

This is cool as fuck http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html

I show it to friends who dont know anything about ibogaine or drug
addicts and they sign up to the list. It makes you want to read
it.

.:vector:.

— crownofthorns@hushmail.com wrote:

Maybe they felt like spending the time to do all that. The reason
it
loads right for everything
is because if you right-click the source code, it has a css file
400
lines long for windowze,
mac, sun and linux. The W3 validater won’t load even the first
line
because
it’s using
webobjects. Don’t understand how it works exactly because it’s
another
cool Apple gizmo
which does more then php but used to cost $50,000 for a site license.
THey changed the
price to $1,000 2 years back to compete with php which is free
😉
Mindvox
is not written in
html, it’s written in whatever it is written in and then rendered
to
html when you request the
page to load in a browser.

It’s not really there, it makes the page for you when you request
it
and makes it according to
what browser and machine you’re using. This is why it loads perfectly
for everything.

I’ve done web design for money, not a living exactly and pray
I can
avoid
that all the way
through grad school, kudos to Jon Freedlander too! 🙂 but I’ll
leave
it at I don’t understand
most of the back end code that runs Mindvox and draws it to screen.

Nobody needed to do all that work to make the website do what
it’s
doing
now and reading
the css file it is changing settings on 100 different options
that
don’t
appear in the website at
all but in the web forums which go online and offline. I think
all of
it was made to support the
forums and the “Psychedelic Temple” is there just because 😉

ibogaine.mindvox.com is just html and javascript. Saying it’s
special
html for expensive
computers is bs. There is no such thing. Whoever made it defaulted
it
to native res on a
Apple 17″ screen which is 1440 x 900. Anything less then that
and it
starts to lose
information from the navigation. This is something that takes
2
minutes
to fix and changing
a hard coded screen limit to a wildcard *. I’m sure Patrick knows
this.

This took alot more time to write then to look at, right-click
view
source
and if you know any
html what I said is obvious. It also has no alt tags, no meta
tags,
the
whole meta tags for
ibogaine.mindvox.com is “We Love Drugs” 😉 Mindvox the psychedelic
temple
has no meta
tags at all.

Clicking some of the files they are all set to noindex, nocache,

nofollow
and norobots. The
whole site is telling search engines to stay off it instead of
index
anything. Yet mindvox is
hitting at lets see, having a slow week and at 72,124 on Alexa.
The
highest
hitting ibogaine
site which I think is ibogaine.org is at 1,284,557.

This gave me a excuse to stop working for 20 minutes 🙂

What’s it all mean I don’t know. It obviously took a huge amount
of
work
to make all this,
ibogaine.mindvox.com keeps adding things including the implied
threat
section? 😉
“Treatment” “Follow the Yellow Brick Road”. But at the same time,

whoever
owns Mindvox
besides patrick is doing everything they can to prevent it from
indexing.
In spite of that it’s at
72,000 and hitting 20,000 on some days according to the alexa
traffic
graph.

Someone is loading a very big shotgun and hasn’t aimed it at anything
yet? 😉 When index is
hit, the whole thing will go to #1 and stay there. Except who
will
care,
because ibogaine.org
is already at #1 for the keyword ibogaine and there really isn’t
anybody
reading the thing, it’s
always below 1 million.

I think that’s one of the things which has always made this place
interesting
to me 😉 I found
ibogaine by accident years ago, looking for Mindvox. I’m very
much
guessing
most of the
people who land on Mindvox aren’t looking for ibogaine, the sites
it
cross hits with are all
hacking and blackhat sites. Mindvox isn’t selling anything, not
even
email which they easily
could. I don’t understand what is motivating anybody to do anything,

since its something that
obiously took a huge amount of creative and technical talent to
make
and a lot of time and
money to keep running.

Whatever Patrick wants to put online is seen by alot of people,

that’s
about all I think.

Peace out
Curtis

On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 14:22:01 -0700 =?iso-8859-1?q?David=20Varossi?=
<dvarossi@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
ibogaine.mindvox.com

As always with anything Mindvox, beutiful to look at
except none of it loads right unless you have a
expensive computer and a big monitor as was noted on
this list a week ago. Still hasn’t been fixed.

ibogaine.org

Huge collection of information that is so tangled up I
can’t ever find anything. The sections overlap and I’m
sure made sense a long time ago but it is impossible
to find anything in it.

ibogaine.co.uk

Great site which loads and is well organised but not
maintained very often.

ibogaine-research.org

More beautiful eye candy, which is almost the only
thing that is here. Nearly all the papers have been
removed.

Speaking for myself I have better luck searching
through the ibogaine sites using google, then I do
using any of the sites.

mindvox.com

As for Mindvox itself, gorgeous site. So complex that
none of it will make it through the WWW validator yet
it loads perfectly on every browser and every computer
I have ever used it on. Looks as if you folks spent a
huge amount of time and effort to make your
“psychedelic temple” because all of it works
perfectly. Except the only content on the entire site
are deranged rants, weird art and a 90 page media kit
or “Media Temple” if you prefer.

Everyone has their priorities and I much appreciate
the time and effort it must take to keep it all
running and to all the folks who run the web sites.
I’m only stating what it’s like to try and find
anything in all of it.

I gave up and started using google.

Cheers mates
David

Carla Barnes wrote:

The Mindvox site is more a psychedelic temple? 😉
Its
beautiful but thats not the ibogaine part, the
ibogaine part is let me unload bookmarks

http://ibogaine.mindvox.com

Howard has a ibogaine site

http://ibogaine.desk.nl

UK site

http://www.ibogaine.co.uk

Ibogaine scientific site

http://www.ibogaine-research.org

Carla B

— Mustafa izgi <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com> wrote:
Dear Mr. Howard,
What happened to iboga web pages. I made a search
on
google and there is only crabs about iboga. Where
did you move your pages it was one and only. I find
Mindwox but there was only strange pictures in  it.

With My Best Regards
FakePlacebo

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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] ibogaine sites and mindvox
Date: July 17, 2004 at 12:00:34 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks curtis that was interesting I guess 😉

I think the problem might be that most people aren’t looking for
ibogaine at all so there aren’t that many who are going to read
anything about it. I don’t know if the problem is finding something on
ibogaine.org its more I read a few articles and my eyes glaze over. Its
not too exciting is it, unless your addicted.

Mindvox is cool. That’s about it, it isn’t like it contains some huge
treasure trove of useful info. It’s just cool as fuck, people load it
up and read it which doesn’t have anything to do with useful high
information content.

Pubmed is useful but unless I want to find something on it it also
makes me  start to fall asleep. This isnt to say that Dr. Mash’s 200
papers about complex pharmacokinetics and desmethylyed ibogaine
fragments 1,2,1,2,-4,2,1b,-a-,b,z-alpha,beta,gamma-delta papers are too
exciting. What’s cool is that the lady is insane enough to let Patrick
put all of it into a chrome plated glowing psychedelic melting purple
thing and it makes her happy. The melting thing is the official science
site of the ibogaine research project of university of miami, that’s
cool 🙂

It doesn’t have too much content I can find either but it’s hitting at
304,209 on alexa. Which is higher then any other ibogaine oriented site
out there, including the much saner and ad filled ibogaine.net. Nobody
links ibogaine net, everybody links ibo research.

I’m also sure that when Mash sees some of what’s on this list and gets
said about her, she doesn’t sit in her office and cry. I think its more
like she laughs her ass off. I’ve never seen her in anything when shes
not wearing stiletto heels, hairdo, makeup, designer clothes. The
deborah and patrick show I am guessing is the deborah and patrick show
partly because patrick makes her look really good because of what he’s
overcome and hes really articulate, but I’m also sure a real big part
is that having a 7″ foot tall prettyboy maniac with a high IQ and track
marks from hell hanging around with her, makes her happy 🙂

She doesn’t strike me as someone who goes home and knits sweaters.
‘that’s my son!’ yeah I bet 😉 🙂

I dont think anyone not involved with ibogaine cares about the good and
evil debates or even understands what anybody is talking about. But the
deborah and patrick show is cool. Ibo research is cool. Mindvox is
beyond cool. A lady who is a real phd and has this stack of science
with her name all over it who hangs around with mr. psychedelic hacker
junkie who is 20 years younger then her, is cool. People without phds
pretending to be scientists and writing these long dry papers, is not
cool. Unless your interested in ibogaine itself nothing there is going
to make you read any further. Its boring.

This is cool as fuck http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html

I show it to friends who dont know anything about ibogaine or drug
addicts and they sign up to the list. It makes you want to read it.

.:vector:.

— crownofthorns@hushmail.com wrote:

Maybe they felt like spending the time to do all that. The reason it
loads right for everything
is because if you right-click the source code, it has a css file 400
lines long for windowze,
mac, sun and linux. The W3 validater won’t load even the first line
because
it’s using
webobjects. Don’t understand how it works exactly because it’s
another
cool Apple gizmo
which does more then php but used to cost $50,000 for a site license.
THey changed the
price to $1,000 2 years back to compete with php which is free 😉
Mindvox
is not written in
html, it’s written in whatever it is written in and then rendered to
html when you request the
page to load in a browser.

It’s not really there, it makes the page for you when you request it
and makes it according to
what browser and machine you’re using. This is why it loads perfectly
for everything.

I’ve done web design for money, not a living exactly and pray I can
avoid
that all the way
through grad school, kudos to Jon Freedlander too! 🙂 but I’ll leave
it at I don’t understand
most of the back end code that runs Mindvox and draws it to screen.

Nobody needed to do all that work to make the website do what it’s
doing
now and reading
the css file it is changing settings on 100 different options that
don’t
appear in the website at
all but in the web forums which go online and offline. I think all of
it was made to support the
forums and the “Psychedelic Temple” is there just because 😉

ibogaine.mindvox.com is just html and javascript. Saying it’s special
html for expensive
computers is bs. There is no such thing. Whoever made it defaulted it
to native res on a
Apple 17″ screen which is 1440 x 900. Anything less then that and it
starts to lose
information from the navigation. This is something that takes 2
minutes
to fix and changing
a hard coded screen limit to a wildcard *. I’m sure Patrick knows
this.

This took alot more time to write then to look at, right-click view
source
and if you know any
html what I said is obvious. It also has no alt tags, no meta tags,
the
whole meta tags for
ibogaine.mindvox.com is “We Love Drugs” 😉 Mindvox the psychedelic
temple
has no meta
tags at all.

Clicking some of the files they are all set to noindex, nocache,
nofollow
and norobots. The
whole site is telling search engines to stay off it instead of index
anything. Yet mindvox is
hitting at lets see, having a slow week and at 72,124 on Alexa. The
highest
hitting ibogaine
site which I think is ibogaine.org is at 1,284,557.

This gave me a excuse to stop working for 20 minutes 🙂

What’s it all mean I don’t know. It obviously took a huge amount of
work
to make all this,
ibogaine.mindvox.com keeps adding things including the implied threat
section? 😉
“Treatment” “Follow the Yellow Brick Road”. But at the same time,
whoever
owns Mindvox
besides patrick is doing everything they can to prevent it from
indexing.
In spite of that it’s at
72,000 and hitting 20,000 on some days according to the alexa traffic
graph.

Someone is loading a very big shotgun and hasn’t aimed it at anything
yet? 😉 When index is
hit, the whole thing will go to #1 and stay there. Except who will
care,
because ibogaine.org
is already at #1 for the keyword ibogaine and there really isn’t
anybody
reading the thing, it’s
always below 1 million.

I think that’s one of the things which has always made this place
interesting
to me 😉 I found
ibogaine by accident years ago, looking for Mindvox. I’m very much
guessing
most of the
people who land on Mindvox aren’t looking for ibogaine, the sites it
cross hits with are all
hacking and blackhat sites. Mindvox isn’t selling anything, not even
email which they easily
could. I don’t understand what is motivating anybody to do anything,
since its something that
obiously took a huge amount of creative and technical talent to make
and a lot of time and
money to keep running.

Whatever Patrick wants to put online is seen by alot of people,
that’s
about all I think.

Peace out
Curtis

On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 14:22:01 -0700 =?iso-8859-1?q?David=20Varossi?=
<dvarossi@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
ibogaine.mindvox.com

As always with anything Mindvox, beutiful to look at
except none of it loads right unless you have a
expensive computer and a big monitor as was noted on
this list a week ago. Still hasn’t been fixed.

ibogaine.org

Huge collection of information that is so tangled up I
can’t ever find anything. The sections overlap and I’m
sure made sense a long time ago but it is impossible
to find anything in it.

ibogaine.co.uk

Great site which loads and is well organised but not
maintained very often.

ibogaine-research.org

More beautiful eye candy, which is almost the only
thing that is here. Nearly all the papers have been
removed.

Speaking for myself I have better luck searching
through the ibogaine sites using google, then I do
using any of the sites.

mindvox.com

As for Mindvox itself, gorgeous site. So complex that
none of it will make it through the WWW validator yet
it loads perfectly on every browser and every computer
I have ever used it on. Looks as if you folks spent a
huge amount of time and effort to make your
“psychedelic temple” because all of it works
perfectly. Except the only content on the entire site
are deranged rants, weird art and a 90 page media kit
or “Media Temple” if you prefer.

Everyone has their priorities and I much appreciate
the time and effort it must take to keep it all
running and to all the folks who run the web sites.
I’m only stating what it’s like to try and find
anything in all of it.

I gave up and started using google.

Cheers mates
David

Carla Barnes wrote:

The Mindvox site is more a psychedelic temple? 😉
Its
beautiful but thats not the ibogaine part, the
ibogaine part is let me unload bookmarks

http://ibogaine.mindvox.com

Howard has a ibogaine site

http://ibogaine.desk.nl

UK site

http://www.ibogaine.co.uk

Ibogaine scientific site

http://www.ibogaine-research.org

Carla B

— Mustafa izgi <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com> wrote:
Dear Mr. Howard,
What happened to iboga web pages. I made a search
on
google and there is only crabs about iboga. Where
did you move your pages it was one and only. I find
Mindwox but there was only strange pictures in  it.

With My Best Regards
FakePlacebo

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] looks and teeth on meth
Date: July 16, 2004 at 11:55:43 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

HI DH,

See, addicts don’t pay tax and except for movie stars and rock and roll starts with big bucks don’t matter.  There was no reason to treat DH like that.  80 mg of meth would of cost less than $5.00.  Not only were they negligent but sarcastic ass holes, no need for it.  Now, if they had cancer or leukemia they would of got the gold card treatment.  Maybe in case of a terrorist act they could put them in a large prison for 6 months, but it is for their own good.  As one doc said it is a little uncomfortable.  But after 6 months they should be fine, and it is for their own good.  I have often talked about sarcastic docs and the bums rush.  This is the first time I’ve heard of the bums stay.  They thought it was funny that DH was gonna be sick as hell plus the next day was Sunday.  Are they docs or saddist?  Wait a minute, isn’t a persons medical history private?  What the hell they doing calling the cops saying we got a junkie here, even thou he is actively seeking treatment and taking met?  I would try some kind of lawsuit.  I wonder if the ACLU would do anything.  I think I would do something, don’t know what but something.  Anyone who has been there know two days without met it two days in hell.

Thank God DH went to a good clinic that checked.  Doctors lying like a bitch, that is sick.  Laughing, adding insult to injury.

– JIM
Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>Those people you see in the supermarket and you
say to yourself “that’s guys definitely on meth” <

I was lucky, and got off before I got that “look,” even having a cop tell me
once, “hey, funny, you don’t look like yer on meth.”
Hmmm.
Wonder why?
Of course, I’m close to loosing all the teeth, but hey, they hurt anyway and
make eating difficult, so who cares? (methadone fucked my teeth, if you’ll
excuse the French.)
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Mark Corcoran”
To:
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 3:53 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] getting dosed in the ER

> THAT’S WHAT I’M TALKIN ABOUT!!! Now imagine that there was some kind of a
> terrorist attack or natural disaster that was on an even grander scale
that
> 9-11. It could be days before it was safe to take the duck tape off the
> windows and leave the house, just ask Tom Ridge. He said specifically said
> that every American household should has enough food water and medicine
for
> at least a week in case of a terror attack. You think that means homeland
> security will advise doctors to provide MMTP patients with a week supply
of
> meth just in case? Of course not, because they don’t think we can be
> trusted. The way dh was treated is the rule and not the exception and I
> can’t ever see that changing. They hear methadone and they think junkie,
> criminal, derelict, etc. That’s America.
>
> on another note, why is it that after a while on meth some people get that
> look? You know the look. The eyes get really sunken back in the head and
the
> balance is slightly off (usually with a cane) just completely shot
looking.
> They also tend to wear sunglasses all the time and wear a lot of jewelry
or
> all of the jewelry they have all at once… oh yeah and no teeth. Please
> tell me I’m not alone here. Those people you see in the supermarket and
you
> say to yourself “that’s guys definitely on meth” Now I’ve heard all the
> rumors like its gets into your bones, and all the rest but can someone out
> there tell me what that meth look is all about and where does it come
from?
> It looks as if their brain was soaked or is swimming in something toxic,
> actually that’s it, they have this toxic look to them…maybe that’s it. I
> have been on and off meth for 5 or 6 years and I know that no one in the
> supermarket looks at me and would ever think that which is just more
> motivation to get off because who knows if just one day I’ll wake up and
be
> one of those guys. What a thought! I just can’t wait to be free of all
this!
>
> Hey all. -M.
>
> —– Original Message —–
> From: “D H”
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 2:22 PM
> Subject: [ibogaine] getting dosed in the ER
>
>
> > my little horror stor
> >
> > I had to go to the ER early one saturday morning vomiting blood.
> >
> > I told the nurses, doctor, etc, that I was a MM patient.
> >
> > They immediately grilled me on what did I take to over dose on.
> > Examining my arms for track marks. checking my pupils. I told them I
> > hadn’t fixed for 2 years, I was doing very well on maintenance. They
> > Laughed.
> >
> > I calmly explained I did not over dose on anything, I hadn’t had my
> > dose since yesterday. And since this hospital visit will surely cause
> > me to miss the abbreviated saturday dosing hours at the clinic, could
> > you please give me 80mgs of methadone.
> >
> > The laughed again. I was told “There is no way in hell we are giving
> > you ANY narcotic”.
> >
> > I showed them my MM ID card and explained that they were obliged to,
> > please call the clinic doctor to confirm. They refused to call. I
> > started to complain loudly. The nurses called down a couple of orderlys
> > to intimidate me.
> >
> > I was extremely nauseous and they gave me some medicine that
> > immediately gave me a major anxiety attack. I complained about it, and
> > they said, oh, its all in your head. You’re just a drug addict who is
> > craving drugs.
> >
> > Next thing I know a policeman was at the ER bedside, interrogating me
> > on a rash of B&E’s that had occured in the area. You know, methadone
> > patient, addict, criminal, all the same thing. The nurses had snitched
> > me out. I had a fresh scar on one arm from a broken window pane at my
> > girlfriends. Supposedly a burglar had cut themselves and left a bunch
> > of blood at the scene a few days before. my cut was at least 2 weeks
> > old.
> >
> > Then they wouldn’t let me leave to try and make the last 10 minutes of
> > dosing at the clinic. They wanted to “observe me” and threatened to
> > restrain me. The cop was hovering near by, calling in all my info to
> > dispatch, keeping one eye on me, one hand on his gun.
> >
> > Right as I was planning my escape I happened to hear a faint
> > announcement over the ER PA “Doctor so and so, you have a Doctor
> > Johnson on line 2” Doctor Johnson was my clinic doctor. I had left a
> > message on the clinics machine at 5am saying i was heading to hospital.
> > Luckily the doctor was checking her messages and following up.
> >
> > 3 minutes later I was given my methadone. But only because my clinic
> > doctor read them the riot act. I could over hear the ER doctor back
> > pedaling on the phone, lying, saying we weren’t really sure he was
> > really a patient of yours, saying how busy they were there, didn’t the
> > nurse call yet, and all kinds of BS.
> >
> > No apology to me, they wouldn’t even look me in the eye after that.
> >
> > 5 and a 1/2 hours later I walked out of the hospital.
> >
> > a month later I was hit with an $850 bill. No Insurance.
> >
> > One good thing was those 10mg dolophine pills seemed to be much more
> > effective than the methadose liquid they hand out at the clinic, so by
> > 11 am I was feeling pretty good, but extremely pissed off.
> >
> > ok, my little war story is over.
> >
> > _.dh
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
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> [%]
> >
>
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> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
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>
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>
>

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – 50x more storage than other providers!

From: marcus israel <vesch69@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?
Date: July 16, 2004 at 7:44:00 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanx callie,
i figured that out after the fact..
i guess i’m not all that computer literate
Marcus

— CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 7/15/2004 10:30:01 AM Central
Daylight Time,
vesch69@yahoo.com writes:

Preston,
why is it that when i send a message to this line  i
always get it right back tomyself?

I am not Preston but I can answer. You are a member
of the  list. The message
you send goes out to all members, you  included!
Make sense?
Callie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete – You start. We finish.
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From: marcus israel <vesch69@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?
Date: July 16, 2004 at 7:43:58 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanx callie,
i figured that out after the fact..
i guess i’m not all that computer literate
Marcus

— CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 7/15/2004 10:30:01 AM Central
Daylight Time,
vesch69@yahoo.com writes:

Preston,
why is it that when i send a message to this line  i
always get it right back tomyself?

I am not Preston but I can answer. You are a member
of the  list. The message
you send goes out to all members, you  included!
Make sense?
Callie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Vote for the stars of Yahoo!’s next ad campaign!
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/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: marcus israel <vesch69@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?
Date: July 16, 2004 at 7:43:56 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanx callie,
i figured that out after the fact..
i guess i’m not all that computer literate
Marcus

— CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 7/15/2004 10:30:01 AM Central
Daylight Time,
vesch69@yahoo.com writes:

Preston,
why is it that when i send a message to this line  i
always get it right back tomyself?

I am not Preston but I can answer. You are a member
of the  list. The message
you send goes out to all members, you  included!
Make sense?
Callie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Vote for the stars of Yahoo!’s next ad campaign!
http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/yahoo/votelifeengine/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: on another note…
Date: July 16, 2004 at 6:48:00 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hell, not only did we make bin laden, but we made saddam hussein too..

those awful chemical weapons we were berating him for using… guess who
gave them to him?

yep,

there’s a great picture of Rumsfeld shaking hands with Sadam I think from that time period.

Thats why the Bush Regime just “knew” he had all those weapons. They were either destroyed or they are stashed somewhere in Syria.

the surfacing of WMD’s and the “capture” of Osama is BushCo’s trump card for re-election. Barring that, the next terrorist “attack[s]” will cancel the election.

BTW, General Electric is the worlds leading manufacturer of WMD’s.

“GE, we bring good things to living, we bring good things to life!”

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] getting dosed (abused) in the ER
Date: July 16, 2004 at 6:38:05 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/16/04 5:13:15 PM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

but we need more voices speaking up for

addicts.<

I’m trying, I’m trying…

;-))

I hate to admit this, but this is the first time I’ve heard Howard
is working towards this sort of thing.

I think I’ve not been paying attention or something.

http://www.doraweiner.org/legacy.html

Howard

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Preston!
Date: July 16, 2004 at 6:25:28 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

So how is V. these days? She was always so sweet and compassionate.<

What’s really weird is that she initially confused you with Marcus when I
mentioned hearing from him lately. She’s well as can be. We’re still
together, so that’s a good thing- never thought I’d be in a nearly 8 year
relationship with anyone, much less someone who not only hasn’t done most of
the drugs I have and..ahem…sometimes might be tempted to do, still
doesn’t. She’s happy to hear you’re alive and kicking, if you’ll excuse the
pun.

Its crazy… that New York we knew each other from doesn’t even exist
anymore.<

You are not kidding.

God we were fucked up.<

You are really, really, really not kidding.

But yeah my clean time enabled me to be a different type of user when I got
back in and it sure didn’t take long after I started that I was back on a
program cuz it saved my life before as it did yours.<

Something I too have noticed, in that in the last 8 years, there’s been one
or two times I’ve stumbled across cocaine say, and either said firmly “no”
or worse/better depending on how i look at it, said firmly, “hell yes, gimme
some” shot it up and walked away cool. Or sat in my bathroom/apartment
freakin’ out thinking “I want MORE damnIT,” yet remaining firmly planted in
the apartment not selling my stuff off to buy MORE. Same goes with the
opiates, only I’ve gone the “pain all the time” route, whereby I get opiates
legally and stick to my scripts fairly faithfully, as I always managed to do
with the methadone takehomes too. Wellll, sometimes I might run outta the
pain meds a day or two early and leave myself screwed and sweaty, but that’s
rare and with reason.

But this time was different and I didn’t get that encouragement from
dropping  down 10mils, not using watching my life get better before my eyes.
This time it was all a secret and I felt like a BIG failure and an even
bigger phony. <

All the above said, I certainly don’t TELL very many people when I do find
myself doing hard illegal drugs, which is next to never anyways these days.
Still, I hear you loud and clear.

I’d get dressed for work every morning for work and head off to the program
in my suit hearing all the comments on the line.<

I’m not going to go back to that route-I Hope.

Other than Rob (who ! you knew) no one else knew that I had fucked up. Then
he died a year ago from a coke overdose complicated by recent heart surgery
due to endocarditis. Talk about mental illness. Knowing using is certain
death and doing it anyway.That broke my heart not to mention leaving me
completely alone with this little secret of mine.<

More info please. Rob who? More bells going off. This doesn’t sound good at
all.
Hate those cocaine overdoses. They never were pretty.

I’m so prepared to be done Preston. I’m at this point where nothing gives
me any real pleasure. I’m unable to make a relationship last. I hate my job.
I’m just completely unhappy with my life in every area and I know that it
begins and ends with my addiction to narcotics. I’m putting all of my eggs
in this Ibogaine basket and hoping that wanting it this badly will be enough
for my experience to be a successful one.<

I’m just going to wish you the best with your trip to Mexico, and tell you
to stay in touch, now you’ve got my email. And remember DrugWar.com as you
can probably get in touch with me through there as well for the immediately
future as far as I know.

So glad our paths crossed and any wisdom you can pass along is greatly
appreciated.<

I used to think “experience” equaled “wisdom” but now I’m not so sure. So no
wisdom here, just positive thoughts your way for now.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: mcorcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 3:57 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Preston!

So how is V. these days? She was always so sweet and compassionate. Don’t
get it twisted, I’m a far cry from where I was in those days. Its crazy…
that New York we knew each other from doesn’t even exist anymore. God we
were fucked up. But yeah my clean time enabled me to be a different type of
user when I got back in and it sure didn’t take long after I started that I
was back on a program cuz it saved my life before as it did yours. But this
time was different and I didn’t get that encouragement from dropping  down
10mils, not using watching my life get better before my eyes. This time it
was all a secret and I felt like a BIG failure and an even bigger phony. I’d
get dressed for work every morning for work and head off to the program in
my suit hearing all the comments on the line. Feeling different there and
different everywhere else. And thats how its been since. I lied to everyone
or at least I told no one the truth. Other than Rob (who ! you knew) no one
else knew that I had fucked up. Then he died a year ago from a coke overdose
complicated by recent heart surgery due to endocarditis. Talk about mental
illness. Knowing using is certain death and doing it anyway.That broke my
heart not to mention leaving me completely alone with this little secret of
mine.  Where was I? So yeah, since its been my own quite little hell. Doing
just enough to keep everything from falling down around me (meth is goods
for that) but still getting high or at least trying to. I’d stop for weeks
and then the reality of my situation would hit me and I’d find myself doing
what I do again. And the cycle has been vicious. Over the course of 4 years
I have been on as much as a 120 mils and as little as 15 with the latest
stretch of about a year and a half hovering around 100. Its just been
miserable. I want to be free from this so badly I’d do anything. So anyway I
started looking into Ibogaine a couple of months ago and! I’ve been very
lucky with the people I’ve come across and the help I’ve gotten.I’ve come
down from 110 to 90 in the past few weeks and then on the 25th its off to
Mexico to get off this Murdock for good. I’m so prepared to be done Preston.
I’m at this point where nothing gives me any real pleasure. I’m unable to
make a relationship last. I hate my job. I’m just completely unhappy with my
life in every area and I know that it begins and ends with my addiction to
narcotics. I’m putting all of my eggs in this Ibogaine basket and hoping
that wanting it this badly will be enough for my experience to be a
successful one.
So glad our paths crossed and any wisdom you can pass along is greatly
appreciated.

-Mark.
Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Now I’m on 90 and except for one slip with dope a couple of days ago that I
hated I’m not doing anything but smoking hashplant and counting the days.
Good to know its you. -M.<

Too fucking funny. Not that you slipped, but just that it’s you.
Sorry all for the public display, but weird, two old missing in action
friends of mine in however many days. There are a few who are dead, so it’s
nice to hear from some who aren’t.
Glad to hear from you. V’s dad saw us give a hug one day, years ago nw,
outside our old 18th St. apartment, while you were still pretty sprung. He
already had doubts about me, me having been busted shooting up in the
backgarden a while before. Seeing you with me didn’t help his calmness about
me, but gave me a good laugh when I heard he’d seen us talking.
I’ve wondered how you were.
Now I know. Sorry to hear ab! out the bad times, but they all lead us on to
the good, right?
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: mcorcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 2:34 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] getting dosed (abused) in the ER

Still doing good in comparison but obviously got back on the meth and doing
the ibo on the 26th. Boy oh boy we did some runnin. Wow, someone to a test
to how fucked up I was. Well needless to say all that good shit didn’t last
that long from the last time I saw you.
I broke up with mny fiancee and things got progressively worse from there.
Back to dope not much coke but then on meth to start all over again except
this time coming down wasn’t the cake walk it once was not to mention
staying away was from the shit was much harder too because in my mind I had
failed when I never thought I would so the dipping and dabbing became kind
of a regular thing. Now I’m on 90 and except for o! ne slip with dope a
couple
of days ago that I hated I’m not doing anything but smoking hashplant and
counting the days. Good to know its you. -M.

Preston Peet wrote:
Mark wrote >if you are who i think you are i know youd remember me<

I did know a few addict Marks. One got into real estate last time I saw him,
doing really well. Not you I take it? Others I’m sure I’d remember when
seeing them face to face or in photos, but I’d need just a wee bit more info
Mark to know for sure who you are or if I did/do know you. Bells are
ringing, but I usually tend to ignore them, fearing the worst.
;-))
No, seriously, There are all kinds of photos of me at various stages of NYC
life at http://www.drugwar.com/PrestonPeetIndex.shtm (all since getting off
heroin/cocaine amusingly enough when I look at one or two of ’em again),
as well as an assortment of drugwar misadventure horror tales about my time
running the streets ! of a variety of cities, mainly focusing on LES during
the early-mid 90s. This should cemen! t for you whether I’m “the one” you
suspect I am. Scroll down the page to find this link
(http://www.drugwar.com/somethingintheway.shtm) and read selected chapters
from:

Something in the Way-
selected chapters
from the (still @$#!%) unpublished novel by Preston Peet about one rebel
junky living life on the farthest edges on city streets both sides of the
Atlantic, strung out and struggling day to day to survive and supply his
ever increase habit.

Central Park Schizo
In which Thoms makes the move to Central Park, learning the ropes while
sustaining his career as street bound junky, living in the park and sinking
into the darker realms of cocaine abuse.

Winter Hole
In which the heroic New York City Fire Department comes crashing into
Thomas’ safe haven and saves him from discovery by forces of the law.

Narcan- Bringing th! e Dead Back to Life
In which a friend overdoses on the floor on a local resturant but is
revived.

Jocko
In which Thomas sells fake drugs to the wrong guy.

Out of Action
Thomas checks into the hospital in serious risk of losing his arm.

Spit on the Floor- thankful and lucky to be alive
Thomas fades away, then fades back in again.

Outburst- a New Years Tale
Thomas burns some bridges in Rotterdam.

There are a few more that aren’t at this time included as “chapters” per se
further down the PrestonPeetIndex page.

A few I knew then even have starring roles in one or another chapter- I’m
thinking specifically about my friend Marcus now.
That chapter is NOT online, and unfortunatly, the #%@#!$ disc on which I
saved the manuscript is fucked and not working, and the $@#^@% computer I
wrote most of the book on is also fucked and not working, so I have to
transcribe the whole thing, sans the above chapters, again! . That’s
actually
cool though, as I need to do some major rewrites and the like anyway.
But god it’s a bitch trying to start a rewrite, when I just can’t
seem…errr, no, let’s rephrase, I just haven’t made myself do it (will
ibogaine change my perspective on this? One of those side things I’m
wondering if ibogaine will affect in any way.) and I now at this moment as
of this morning have to do a completely re-read of the book (first draft
after book hit layout) called “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide
to Drugs” which I just finished editing a couple months back, and which will
be out, from The Disinformation Company ,(http://www.disinfo.com) in October
2004 before I even begin to think about my own personal creative writing,
again.
Now I begin to blather and rant and make excuses, so allow me to bid
adieu.
Adieu.
Peace,
Preston (let me know if I am the “one” Mark, and give a bit more details
please.)

!
—– Original Message —–
From: mcorcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 12:56 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] getting dosed (abused) in the ER

Preston, i think i know you from the LES in the early- mid 90s. Me- mark-
blond hair i was friends with another guy named Nathan or Nate if you are
who i think you are i know youd remember me

Preston Peet wrote:
another one-

I went to the hospital, Beth Israel, here in Manhattan, at around 1AM one
morning while a homeless junky. I waited and waited for the intake nurse to
finally see me, and once she did, I registered a 103 temperature. She
immediately noted that, and said “have a seat, someone will be ‘right out’
to get you.”
I passed out in a waiting room chair.
Next thing I know, one of the security guards is nudging me, saying, “Ok
pal, time to go,” or words to this effect.
Groggily I said, “cool.”
Still groggy, I turned towards the ER intake! area when we reached that
d! oor, but ol’ guard guy grabs me and says, “no, this way,” and turned me
towards the exit.
I said, “no, I’m waiting to be intook.”
He said, “no, they called your name 3 times already. You’re outta here.”
So, each time they called my name he apparently heard it, but didn’t
feel it necessary to wake me.
He did take it upon himself to throw me out on the street though.
Now, I admit, I had accidentally (obviously- who does it on purpose?)
done a dirty hit and knew exactly what was wrong with me, but had had the
brilliant idea that I could use it to get into their detox floor and get off
the drugs.
LOL!
Needless to say I was fuming, arguing loudly with the guy, and continued
to do so until he pulled out his leather gloves and started to pull them on
as he described the ass kicking he was about to give me, along with his
fellow security guards who were now gathering in anticipation of a little
diversion fro! m their normal boring routine. I mea! n, it’s fun to beat to
a
pulp 125 pound junkies, right? So long as we have the gloves on to keep the
blood off, right?
I stumbled away in the early dawn light to find a fix to finally take
care of my splitting heacache.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “D H”
To:
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 2:22 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] getting dosed in the ER

my little horror story:

I had to go to the ER early one saturday morning vomiting blood.

I told the nurses, doctor, etc, that I was a MM patient.

They immediately grilled me on what did I take to over dose on.
Examining my arms for track marks. checking my pupils. I told them I
hadn’t fixed for 2 years, I was doing very well on maintenance. They
Laughed.

I calmly explained I did not over dose on anything, I hadn’t had my
dose since yester! day. And since this hospital visit wil! l surely cause
me to miss the abbreviated saturday dosing hours at the clinic, could
you please give me 80mgs of methadone.

The laughed again. I was told “There is no way in hell we are giving
you ANY narcotic”.

I showed them my MM ID card and explained that they were obliged to,
please call the clinic doctor to confirm. They refused to call. I
started to complain loudly. The nurses called down a couple of orderlys
to intimidate me.

I was extremely nauseous and they gave me some medicine that
immediately gave me a major anxiety attack. I complained about it, and
they said, oh, its all in your head. You’re just a drug addict who is
craving drugs.

Next thing I know a policeman was at the ER bedside, interrogating me
on a rash of B&E’s that had occured in the area. You know, methadone
patient,! addict, criminal, all the same thing. T! he nurses had snitched
me out. I had a fresh scar on one arm from a broken window pane at my
girlfriends. Supposedly a burglar had cut themselves and left a bunch
of blood at the scene ! a few days before. my cut was at least 2 weeks
old.

Then they wouldn’t let me leave to try and make the last 10 minutes of
dosing at the clinic. They wanted to “observe me” and threatened to
restrain me. The cop was hovering near by, calling in all my info to
dispatch, keeping one eye on me, one hand on his gun.

Right as I was planning my escape I happened to hear a faint
announcement over the ER PA “Doctor so and so, you have a Doctor
Johnson on line 2” Doctor Johnson was my clinic doctor. I had left a
message on the clinics machine at 5am saying i was heading to hospital.
Luckily the doctor was checking her messages and following up.

3 minutes later I was given my methadone. But only because my clinic
doctor read them the riot act. I could over hear the ER doctor back
pedaling on the phone, lying, saying we weren’t really sure he was
really a p! atient of yours, saying how busy they were there, didn’t the
nurse call yet, and all kinds of BS.

No apology to me, they wouldn’t even look me in the eye after that.

5 and a 1/2 hours later I walked out of the hospital.

a month later I was hit with an $850 bill. No Insurance.

One good thing was those 10mg dolophine pills seemed to be much more
effective than the methadose liquid they hand out at the clinic, so by
11 am I was feeling pretty good, but extremely pissed off.

ok, my little war story is over.

_.dh

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Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail is new and improved – Check it out!

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Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete – You sta! rt. We finish.

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] getting dosed (abused) in the ER
Date: July 16, 2004 at 6:12:37 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

but we need more voices speaking up for
addicts.<

I’m trying, I’m trying…
;-))
I hate to admit this, but this is the first time I’ve heard Howard is
working towards this sort of thing.
I think I’ve not been paying attention or something.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 4:42 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] getting dosed (abused) in the ER

Hi Preston,

Your story and others convince me even more that we need addict unions
in
this country. (US).  Addict unions lobby with the attitude of yes we are
junkies,
but we are also human beings.  You don’t need to refuse us treatment and
throw us in jail.

I completely agree… I know Howard does a lot of good work in this area
with his Dora Weiner Foundation, but we need more voices speaking up for
addicts. We need to have the same sort of things they do for cancer, AIDS,
etc.. groups that stand up for addicts’ rights and fight for them to be
treated with compassion and dignity.

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] a little personal gloating… =)
Date: July 16, 2004 at 5:52:26 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/16/2004 12:49:31 PM Central Daylight Time, jfreed1@umbc.edu writes:
I just found out that I got into grad school for the fall =)

Jon, That is great news!!!!! Congratulations!
Which school you going to and what you studying specifically?
I am proud of you, hope you are proud of yourself, Callie

From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] a little personal gloating… =)
Date: July 16, 2004 at 4:44:13 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jon,

Great news man!  I hope to go to grad school when I get my shit more
together.
Contrats!

thanx very much =)

i’m sure you’ll be able to do it too… it took me nearly 6 years of being
off dope to get remotely stable enough…ehe.. but if you keep at it, it
can be done

jon

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From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] getting dosed (abused) in the ER
Date: July 16, 2004 at 4:42:20 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Preston,

Your story and others convince me even more that we need addict unions in
this country. (US).  Addict unions lobby with the attitude of yes we are
junkies,
but we are also human beings.  You don’t need to refuse us treatment and
throw us in jail.

I completely agree… I know Howard does a lot of good work in this area
with his Dora Weiner Foundation, but we need more voices speaking up for
addicts. We need to have the same sort of things they do for cancer, AIDS,
etc.. groups that stand up for addicts’ rights and fight for them to be
treated with compassion and dignity.

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From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Question?
Date: July 16, 2004 at 4:38:53 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello all, The other Day My Pyschystrist prescribed me Aderall 10mg 4
daily. what is that? He took my Rilitilin and put me on this.  My wife say
it is like speed. If so what I am trying to figure out is how is it that I
am Valium 10 mg 60 month  Ambein 10mg 30 month and now Adirall 120 month,
plus my Duragesic patch 100ugh every 3 days  and my oxy ir 5  4 times
daily. Neurontin 800mg 4 day now, Man is there really good products out
there to protect my internal and Physical Health. Seriously is there
something  I can get prescribed or  over counter herbal etc  that I can
take to protect keep my body safe?  Mike

You’re wife is right, both ritalin and adderall are CNS stimulants.
Adderall is a combination of amphetamines, while ritalin is related to
amphetamines, but isn’t quite one. Adderall is more potent than ritalin,
but less potent than street amphetamines.

With all the medications you’re on, it would probably be a good idea to do
some kinda internal cleansing routine. There are a number of things you
can get at a health store to clean out your liver; the best are probably
milk thistle, dandelion, and beet root juice. It wouldn’t hurt to do some
of those colon cleansing things as well, but I think the liver cleansing
would probably be more important.

There are also a few things you should probably avoid… It would be best
not to drink alcohol at all, but if you are going to drink, definately do
so only in moderation. Not only have a number of people died from
combining alcohol with drugs like valium and such (marilyn monroe and john
belushi, for instance) but even in non-fatal cases it’s very hard on the
liver. It would probably be wise to avoid other stimulants as much as you
can, or take them in moderation at least.. nicotine, caffeine, etc. And
you should also probably be careful with any over the counter medications
you take, especially cold medicines (because they also generally contain
speed-like drugs). I’d ask a pharmacist before you take anything else.

Anyway, hope this helps.

good luck

jon

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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] a little personal gloating… =)
Date: July 16, 2004 at 4:29:35 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jon,

Great news man!  I hope to go to grad school when I get my shit more together.
Contrats!

Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] getting dosed (abused) in the ER
Date: July 16, 2004 at 4:27:50 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Preston,

Your story and others convince me even more that we need addict unions in this country. (US).  Addict unions lobby with the attitude of yes we are junkies, but we are also human beings.  You don’t need to refuse us treatment and throw us in jail.

Sean

From: “Michael Maxey” <mike2boys@msn.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Question?
Date: July 16, 2004 at 12:49:22 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello all, The other Day My Pyschystrist prescribed me Aderall 10mg 4 daily. what is that? He took my Rilitilin and put me on this.  My wife say it is like speed. If so what I am trying to figure out is how is it that I am Valium 10 mg 60 month  Ambein 10mg 30 month and now Adirall 120 month,  plus my Duragesic patch 100ugh every 3 days  and my oxy ir 5  4 times daily. Neurontin 800mg 4 day now, Man is there really good products out there to protect my internal and Physical Health. Seriously is there  something  I can get prescribed or  over counter herbal etc  that I can take to protect keep my body safe?  Mike
—– Original Message —–
From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 8:47 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] getting dosed in the ER

Mark, I know the look you are talking about and though I won’t swear it is the same in your experience, in my experience it was not the meth, but the meth and all the other shit they are taking. Especially xanax and valium. I swear to you it took me a long time but I discovered that those that only took their meth and maybe got high occassionally did not have that look and posture that indicates what you see. But those that were using alot of shit especially Benzos with their meth had that posture and look. They even had a certain tone of voice similiar to one who uses smack all the time and nods alot. I can’t believe you brought this out because I thought I was alone in seeing this look and posture and voice!

Regards man,
Julian

From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Preston!
Date: July 16, 2004 at 3:57:28 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

So how is V. these days? She was always so sweet and compassionate. Don’t get it twisted, I’m a far cry from where I was in those days. Its crazy… that New York we knew each other from doesn’t even exist anymore. God we were fucked up. But yeah my clean time enabled me to be a different type of user when I got back in and it sure didn’t take long after I started that I was back on a program cuz it saved my life before as it did yours. But this time was different and I didn’t get that encouragement from dropping  down 10mils, not using watching my life get better before my eyes. This time it was all a secret and I felt like a BIG failure and an even bigger phony. I’d get dressed for work every morning for work and head off to the program in my suit hearing all the comments on the line. Feeling different there and different everywhere else. And thats how its been since. I lied to everyone or at least I told no one the truth. Other than Rob (who you knew) no one else knew that I had fucked up. Then he died a year ago from a coke overdose complicated by recent heart surgery due to endocarditis. Talk about mental illness. Knowing using is certain death and doing it anyway.That broke my heart not to mention leaving me completely alone with this little secret of mine.  Where was I? So yeah, since its been my own quite little hell. Doing just enough to keep everything from falling down around me (meth is goods for that) but still getting high or at least trying to. I’d stop for weeks and then the reality of my situation would hit me and I’d find myself doing what I do again. And the cycle has been vicious. Over the course of 4 years I have been on as much as a 120 mils and as little as 15 with the latest stretch of about a year and a half hovering around 100. Its just been miserable. I want to be free from this so badly I’d do anything. So anyway I started looking into Ibogaine a couple of months ago and I’ve been very lucky with the people I’ve come across and the help I’ve gotten.I’ve come down from 110 to 90 in the past few weeks and then on the 25th its off to Mexico to get off this Murdock for good. I’m so prepared to be done Preston. I’m at this point where nothing gives me any real pleasure. I’m unable to make a relationship last. I hate my job. I’m just completely unhappy with my life in every area and I know that it begins and ends with my addiction to narcotics. I’m putting all of my eggs in this Ibogaine basket and hoping that wanting it this badly will be enough for my experience to be a successful one.
So glad our paths crossed and any wisdom you can pass along is greatly appreciated.

-Mark.
Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>Now I’m on 90 and except for one slip with dope a couple of days ago that I
hated I’m not doing anything but smoking hashplant and counting the days.
Good to know its you. -M.<

Too fucking funny. Not that you slipped, but just that it’s you.
Sorry all for the public display, but weird, two old missing in action
friends of mine in however many days. There are a few who are dead, so it’s
nice to hear from some who aren’t.
Glad to hear from you. V’s dad saw us give a hug one day, years ago nw,
outside our old 18th St. apartment, while you were still pretty sprung. He
already had doubts about me, me having been busted shooting up in the
backgarden a while before. Seeing you with me didn’t help his calmness about
me, but gave me a good laugh when I heard he’d seen us talking.
I’ve wondered how you were.
Now I know. Sorry to hear about the bad times, but they all lead us on to
the good, right?
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: mcorcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 2:34 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] getting dosed (abused) in the ER

Still doing good in comparison but obviously got back on the meth and doing
the ibo on the 26th. Boy oh boy we did some runnin. Wow, someone to a test
to how fucked up I was. Well needless to say all that good shit didn’t last
that long from the last time I saw you.
I broke up with mny fiancee and things got progressively worse from there.
Back to dope not much coke but then on meth to start all over again except
this time coming down wasn’t the cake walk it once was not to mention
staying away was from the shit was much harder too because in my mind I had
failed when I never thought I would so the dipping and dabbing became kind
of a regular thing. Now I’m on 90 and except for one slip with dope a couple
of days ago that I hated I’m not doing anything but smoking hashplant and
counting the days. Good to know its you. -M.

Preston Peet wrote:
Mark wrote >if you are who i think you are i know youd remember me<

I did know a few addict Marks. One got into real estate last time I saw him,
doing really well. Not you I take it? Others I’m sure I’d remember when
seeing them face to face or in photos, but I’d need just a wee bit more info
Mark to know for sure who you are or if I did/do know you. Bells are
ringing, but I usually tend to ignore them, fearing the worst.
;-))
No, seriously, There are all kinds of photos of me at various stages of NYC
life at http://www.drugwar.com/PrestonPeetIndex.shtm (all since getting off
heroin/cocaine amusingly enough when I look at one or two of ’em again),
as well as an assortment of drugwar misadventure horror tales about my time
running the streets of a variety of cities, mainly focusing on LES during
the early-mid 90s. This should cemen! t for you whether I’m “the one” you
suspect I am. Scroll down the page to find this link
(http://www.drugwar.com/somethingintheway.shtm) and read selected chapters
from:

Something in the Way-
selected chapters
from the (still @$#!%) unpublished novel by Preston Peet about one rebel
junky living life on the farthest edges on city streets both sides of the
Atlantic, strung out and struggling day to day to survive and supply his
ever increase habit.

Central Park Schizo
In which Thoms makes the move to Central Park, learning the ropes while
sustaining his career as street bound junky, living in the park and sinking
into the darker realms of cocaine abuse.

Winter Hole
In which the heroic New York City Fire Department comes crashing into
Thomas’ safe haven and saves him from discovery by forces of the law.

Narcan- Bringing the Dead Back to Life
In which a friend overdoses on the floor on a local resturant but is
revived.

Jocko
In which Thomas sells fake drugs to the wrong guy.

Out of Action
Thomas checks into the hospital in serious risk of losing his arm.

Spit on the Floor- thankful and lucky to be alive
Thomas fades away, then fades back in again.

Outburst- a New Years Tale
Thomas burns some bridges in Rotterdam.

There are a few more that aren’t at this time included as “chapters” per se
further down the PrestonPeetIndex page.

A few I knew then even have starring roles in one or another chapter- I’m
thinking specifically about my friend Marcus now.
That chapter is NOT online, and unfortunatly, the #%@#!$ disc on which I
saved the manuscript is fucked and not working, and the $@#^@% computer I
wrote most of the book on is also fucked and not working, so I have to
transcribe the whole thing, sans the above chapters, again. That’s actually
cool though, as I need to do some major rewrites and the like anyway.
But god it’s a bitch trying to start a rewrite, when I just can’t
seem…errr, no, let’s rephrase, I just haven’t made myself do it (will
ibogaine change my perspective on this? One of those side things I’m
wondering if ibogaine will affect in any way.) and I now at this moment as
of this morning have to do a completely re-read of the book (first draft
after book hit layout) called “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide
to Drugs” which I just finished editing a couple months back, and which will
be out, from The Disinformation Company ,(http://www.disinfo.com) in October
2004 before I even begin to think about my own personal creative writing,
again.
Now I begin to blather and rant and make excuses, so allow me to bid
adieu.
Adieu.
Peace,
Preston (let me know if I am the “one” Mark, and give a bit more details
please.)

—– Original Message —–
From: mcorcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 12:56 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] getting dosed (abused) in the ER

Preston, i think i know you from the LES in the early- mid 90s. Me- mark-
blond hair i was friends with another guy named Nathan or Nate if you are
who i think you are i know youd remember me

Preston Peet wrote:
another one-

I went to the hospital, Beth Israel, here in Manhattan, at around 1AM one
morning while a homeless junky. I waited and waited for the intake nurse to
finally see me, and once she did, I registered a 103 temperature. She
immediately noted that, and said “have a seat, someone will be ‘right out’
to get you.”
I passed out in a waiting room chair.
Next thing I know, one of the security guards is nudging me, saying, “Ok
pal, time to go,” or words to this effect.
Groggily I said, “cool.”
Still groggy, I turned towards the ER intake area when we reached that
d! oor, but ol’ guard guy grabs me and says, “no, this way,” and turned me
towards the exit.
I said, “no, I’m waiting to be intook.”
He said, “no, they called your name 3 times already. You’re outta here.”
So, each time they called my name he apparently heard it, but didn’t
feel it necessary to wake me.
He did take it upon himself to throw me out on the street though.
Now, I admit, I had accidentally (obviously- who does it on purpose?)
done a dirty hit and knew exactly what was wrong with me, but had had the
brilliant idea that I could use it to get into their detox floor and get off
the drugs.
LOL!
Needless to say I was fuming, arguing loudly with the guy, and continued
to do so until he pulled out his leather gloves and started to pull them on
as he described the ass kicking he was about to give me, along with his
fellow security guards who were now gathering in anticipation of a little
diversion from their normal boring routine. I mea! n, it’s fun to beat to a
pulp 125 pound junkies, right? So long as we have the gloves on to keep the
blood off, right?
I stumbled away in the early dawn light to find a fix to finally take
care of my splitting heacache.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “D H”
To:
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 2:22 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] getting dosed in the ER

> my little horror story:
>
> I had to go to the ER early one saturday morning vomiting blood.
>
> I told the nurses, doctor, etc, that I was a MM patient.
>
> They immediately grilled me on what did I take to over dose on.
> Examining my arms for track marks. checking my pupils. I told them I
> hadn’t fixed for 2 years, I was doing very well on maintenance. They
> Laughed.
>
> I calmly explained I did not over dose on anything, I hadn’t had my
> dose since yesterday. And since this hospital visit wil! l surely cause
> me to miss the abbreviated saturday dosing hours at the clinic, could
> you please give me 80mgs of methadone.
>
> The laughed again. I was told “There is no way in hell we are giving
> you ANY narcotic”.
>
> I showed them my MM ID card and explained that they were obliged to,
> please call the clinic doctor to confirm. They refused to call. I
> started to complain loudly. The nurses called down a couple of orderlys
> to intimidate me.
>
> I was extremely nauseous and they gave me some medicine that
> immediately gave me a major anxiety attack. I complained about it, and
> they said, oh, its all in your head. You’re just a drug addict who is
> craving drugs.
>
> Next thing I know a policeman was at the ER bedside, interrogating me
> on a rash of B&E’s that had occured in the area. You know, methadone
> patient, addict, criminal, all the same thing. T! he nurses had snitched
> me out. I had a fresh scar on one arm from a broken window pane at my
> girlfriends. Supposedly a burglar had cut themselves and left a bunch
> of blood at the scene ! a few days before. my cut was at least 2 weeks
> old.
>
> Then they wouldn’t let me leave to try and make the last 10 minutes of
> dosing at the clinic. They wanted to “observe me” and threatened to
> restrain me. The cop was hovering near by, calling in all my info to
> dispatch, keeping one eye on me, one hand on his gun.
>
> Right as I was planning my escape I happened to hear a faint
> announcement over the ER PA “Doctor so and so, you have a Doctor
> Johnson on line 2” Doctor Johnson was my clinic doctor. I had left a
> message on the clinics machine at 5am saying i was heading to hospital.
> Luckily the doctor was checking her messages and following up.
>
> 3 minutes later I was given my methadone. But only because my clinic
> doctor read them the riot act. I could over hear the ER doctor back
> pedaling on the phone, lying, saying we weren’t really sure he was
> really a p! atient of yours, saying how busy they were there, didn’t the
> nurse call yet, and all kinds of BS.
>
> No apology to me, they wouldn’t even look me in the eye after that.
>
> 5 and a 1/2 hours later I walked out of the hospital.
>
> a month later I was hit with an $850 bill. No Insurance.
>
> One good thing was those 10mg dolophine pills seemed to be much more
> effective than the methadose liquid they hand out at the clinic, so by
> 11 am I was feeling pretty good, but extremely pissed off.
>
> ok, my little war story is over.
>
> _.dh
>
>
>
>
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>

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From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] where is the Iboga web pages
Date: July 16, 2004 at 3:45:08 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Maybe they felt like spending the time to do all that. The reason it
loads right for everything
is because if you right-click the source code, it has a css file 400
lines long for windowze,
mac, sun and linux. The W3 validater won’t load even the first line because
it’s using
webobjects. Don’t understand how it works exactly because it’s another
cool Apple gizmo
which does more then php but used to cost $50,000 for a site license.
THey changed the
price to $1,000 2 years back to compete with php which is free 😉 Mindvox
is not written in
html, it’s written in whatever it is written in and then rendered to
html when you request the
page to load in a browser.

It’s not really there, it makes the page for you when you request it
and makes it according to
what browser and machine you’re using. This is why it loads perfectly
for everything.

I’ve done web design for money, not a living exactly and pray I can avoid
that all the way
through grad school, kudos to Jon Freedlander too! 🙂 but I’ll leave
it at I don’t understand
most of the back end code that runs Mindvox and draws it to screen.

Nobody needed to do all that work to make the website do what it’s doing
now and reading
the css file it is changing settings on 100 different options that don’t
appear in the website at
all but in the web forums which go online and offline. I think all of
it was made to support the
forums and the “Psychedelic Temple” is there just because 😉

ibogaine.mindvox.com is just html and javascript. Saying it’s special
html for expensive
computers is bs. There is no such thing. Whoever made it defaulted it
to native res on a
Apple 17″ screen which is 1440 x 900. Anything less then that and it
starts to lose
information from the navigation. This is something that takes 2 minutes
to fix and changing
a hard coded screen limit to a wildcard *. I’m sure Patrick knows this.

This took alot more time to write then to look at, right-click view source
and if you know any
html what I said is obvious. It also has no alt tags, no meta tags, the
whole meta tags for
ibogaine.mindvox.com is “We Love Drugs” 😉 Mindvox the psychedelic temple
has no meta
tags at all.

Clicking some of the files they are all set to noindex, nocache, nofollow
and norobots. The
whole site is telling search engines to stay off it instead of index
anything. Yet mindvox is
hitting at lets see, having a slow week and at 72,124 on Alexa. The highest
hitting ibogaine
site which I think is ibogaine.org is at 1,284,557.

This gave me a excuse to stop working for 20 minutes 🙂

What’s it all mean I don’t know. It obviously took a huge amount of work
to make all this,
ibogaine.mindvox.com keeps adding things including the implied threat
section? 😉
“Treatment” “Follow the Yellow Brick Road”. But at the same time, whoever
owns Mindvox
besides patrick is doing everything they can to prevent it from indexing.
In spite of that it’s at
72,000 and hitting 20,000 on some days according to the alexa traffic
graph.

Someone is loading a very big shotgun and hasn’t aimed it at anything
yet? 😉 When index is
hit, the whole thing will go to #1 and stay there. Except who will care,
because ibogaine.org
is already at #1 for the keyword ibogaine and there really isn’t anybody
reading the thing, it’s
always below 1 million.

I think that’s one of the things which has always made this place interesting
to me 😉 I found
ibogaine by accident years ago, looking for Mindvox. I’m very much guessing
most of the
people who land on Mindvox aren’t looking for ibogaine, the sites it
cross hits with are all
hacking and blackhat sites. Mindvox isn’t selling anything, not even
email which they easily
could. I don’t understand what is motivating anybody to do anything,
since its something that
obiously took a huge amount of creative and technical talent to make
and a lot of time and
money to keep running.

Whatever Patrick wants to put online is seen by alot of people, that’s
about all I think.

Peace out
Curtis

On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 14:22:01 -0700 =?iso-8859-1?q?David=20Varossi?=
<dvarossi@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
ibogaine.mindvox.com

As always with anything Mindvox, beutiful to look at
except none of it loads right unless you have a
expensive computer and a big monitor as was noted on
this list a week ago. Still hasn’t been fixed.

ibogaine.org

Huge collection of information that is so tangled up I
can’t ever find anything. The sections overlap and I’m
sure made sense a long time ago but it is impossible
to find anything in it.

ibogaine.co.uk

Great site which loads and is well organised but not
maintained very often.

ibogaine-research.org

More beautiful eye candy, which is almost the only
thing that is here. Nearly all the papers have been
removed.

Speaking for myself I have better luck searching
through the ibogaine sites using google, then I do
using any of the sites.

mindvox.com

As for Mindvox itself, gorgeous site. So complex that
none of it will make it through the WWW validator yet
it loads perfectly on every browser and every computer
I have ever used it on. Looks as if you folks spent a
huge amount of time and effort to make your
“psychedelic temple” because all of it works
perfectly. Except the only content on the entire site
are deranged rants, weird art and a 90 page media kit
or “Media Temple” if you prefer.

Everyone has their priorities and I much appreciate
the time and effort it must take to keep it all
running and to all the folks who run the web sites.
I’m only stating what it’s like to try and find
anything in all of it.

I gave up and started using google.

Cheers mates
David

Carla Barnes wrote:

The Mindvox site is more a psychedelic temple? 😉
Its
beautiful but thats not the ibogaine part, the
ibogaine part is let me unload bookmarks

http://ibogaine.mindvox.com

Howard has a ibogaine site

http://ibogaine.desk.nl

UK site

http://www.ibogaine.co.uk

Ibogaine scientific site

http://www.ibogaine-research.org

Carla B

— Mustafa izgi <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com> wrote:
Dear Mr. Howard,
What happened to iboga web pages. I made a search
on
google and there is only crabs about iboga. Where
did you move your pages it was one and only. I find
Mindwox but there was only strange pictures in  it.

With My Best Regards
FakePlacebo

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
http://www.hushmail.com/services-messenger?l=434

Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] getting dosed (abused) in the ER
Date: July 16, 2004 at 3:14:46 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Now I’m on 90 and except for one slip with dope a couple of days ago that I
hated I’m not doing anything but smoking hashplant and counting the days.
Good to know its you. -M.<

Too fucking funny. Not that you slipped, but just that it’s you.
Sorry all for the public display, but weird, two old missing in action
friends of mine in however many days. There are a few who are dead, so it’s
nice to hear from some who aren’t.
Glad to hear from you. V’s dad saw us give a hug one day, years ago now,
outside our old 18th St. apartment, while you were still pretty sprung. He
already had doubts about me, me having been busted shooting up in the
backgarden a while before. Seeing you with me didn’t help his calmness about
me, but gave me a good laugh when I heard he’d seen us talking.
I’ve wondered how you were.
Now I know. Sorry to hear about the bad times, but they all lead us on to
the good, right?
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: mcorcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 2:34 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] getting dosed (abused) in the ER

Still doing good in comparison but obviously got back on the meth and doing
the ibo on the 26th. Boy oh boy we did some runnin. Wow, someone to a test
to how fucked up I was. Well needless to say  all that good shit didn’t last
that long from the last time I saw you.
I broke up with mny fiancee and things got progressively worse from there.
Back to dope not much coke but then on meth to start all over again except
this time coming down wasn’t the cake walk it once was not to mention
staying away was from the shit was much harder too because in my mind I had
failed when I never thought I would so the dipping and dabbing became kind
of a regular thing. Now I’m on 90 and except for one slip with dope a couple
of days ago that I hated I’m not doing anything but smoking hashplant and
counting the days. Good to know its you. -M.

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Mark wrote >if you are who i think you are i know youd remember me<

I did know a few addict Marks. One got into real estate last time I saw him,
doing really well. Not you I take it? Others I’m sure I’d remember when
seeing them face to face or in photos, but I’d need just a wee bit more info
Mark to know for sure who you are or if I did/do know you. Bells are
ringing, but I usually tend to ignore them, fearing the worst.
;-))
No, seriously, There are all kinds of photos of me at various stages of NYC
life at http://www.drugwar.com/PrestonPeetIndex.shtm (all since getting off
heroin/cocaine amusingly enough when I look at one or two of ’em again),
as well as an assortment of drugwar misadventure horror tales about my time
running the streets of a variety of cities, mainly focusing on LES during
the early-mid 90s. This should cemen! t for you whether I’m “the one” you
suspect I am. Scroll down the page to find this link
(http://www.drugwar.com/somethingintheway.shtm) and read selected chapters
from:

Something in the Way-
selected chapters
from the (still @$#!%) unpublished novel by Preston Peet about one rebel
junky living life on the farthest edges on city streets both sides of the
Atlantic, strung out and struggling day to day to survive and supply his
ever increase habit.

Central Park Schizo
In which Thoms makes the move to Central Park, learning the ropes while
sustaining his career as street bound junky, living in the park and sinking
into the darker realms of cocaine abuse.

Winter Hole
In which the heroic New York City Fire Department comes crashing into
Thomas’ safe haven and saves him from discovery by forces of the law.

Narcan- Bringing the Dead Back to Life
In which a friend overdoses on the floor on a local resturant but is
revived.

Jocko
In which Thomas sells fake drugs to the wrong guy.

Out of Action
Thomas checks into the hospital in serious risk of losing his arm.

Spit on the Floor- thankful and lucky to be alive
Thomas fades away, then fades back in again.

Outburst- a New Years Tale
Thomas burns some bridges in Rotterdam.

There are a few more that aren’t at this time included as “chapters” per se
further down the PrestonPeetIndex page.

A few I knew then even have starring roles in one or another chapter- I’m
thinking specifically about my friend Marcus now.
That chapter is NOT online, and unfortunatly, the #%@#!$ disc on which I
saved the manuscript is fucked and not working, and the $@#^@% computer I
wrote most of the book on is also fucked and not working, so I have to
transcribe the whole thing, sans the above chapters, again. That’s actually
cool though, as I need to do some major rewrites and the like anyway.
But god it’s a bitch trying to start a rewrite, when I just can’t
seem…errr, no, let’s rephrase, I just haven’t made myself do it (will
ibogaine change my perspective on this? One of those side things I’m
wondering if ibogaine will affect in any way.) and I now at this moment as
of this morning have to do a completely re-read of the book (first draft
after book hit layout) called “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide
to Drugs” which I just finished editing a couple months back, and which will
be out, from The Disinformation Company ,(http://www.disinfo.com) in October
2004 before I even begin to think about my own personal creative writing,
again.
Now I begin to blather and rant and make excuses, so allow me to bid
adieu.
Adieu.
Peace,
Preston (let me know if I am the “one” Mark, and give a bit more details
please.)

—– Original Message —–
From: mcorcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 12:56 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] getting dosed (abused) in the ER

Preston, i think i know you from the LES in the early- mid 90s. Me- mark-
blond hair i was friends with another guy named Nathan or Nate if you are
who i think you are i know youd remember me

Preston Peet wrote:
another one-

I went to the hospital, Beth Israel, here in Manhattan, at around 1AM one
morning while a homeless junky. I waited and waited for the intake nurse to
finally see me, and once she did, I registered a 103 temperature. She
immediately noted that, and said “have a seat, someone will be ‘right out’
to get you.”
I passed out in a waiting room chair.
Next thing I know, one of the security guards is nudging me, saying, “Ok
pal, time to go,” or words to this effect.
Groggily I said, “cool.”
Still groggy, I turned towards the ER intake area when we reached that
d! oor, but ol’ guard guy grabs me and says, “no, this way,” and turned me
towards the exit.
I said, “no, I’m waiting to be intook.”
He said, “no, they called your name 3 times already. You’re outta here.”
So, each time they called my name he apparently heard it, but didn’t
feel it necessary to wake me.
He did take it upon himself to throw me out on the street though.
Now, I admit, I had accidentally (obviously- who does it on purpose?)
done a dirty hit and knew exactly what was wrong with me, but had had the
brilliant idea that I could use it to get into their detox floor and get off
the drugs.
LOL!
Needless to say I was fuming, arguing loudly with the guy, and continued
to do so until he pulled out his leather gloves and started to pull them on
as he described the ass kicking he was about to give me, along with his
fellow security guards who were now gathering in anticipation of a little
diversion from their normal boring routine. I mea! n, it’s fun to beat to a
pulp 125 pound junkies, right? So long as we have the gloves on to keep the
blood off, right?
I stumbled away in the early dawn light to find a fix to finally take
care of my splitting heacache.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “D H”
To:
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 2:22 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] getting dosed in the ER

my little horror story:

I had to go to the ER early one saturday morning vomiting blood.

I told the nurses, doctor, etc, that I was a MM patient.

They immediately grilled me on what did I take to over dose on.
Examining my arms for track marks. checking my pupils. I told them I
hadn’t fixed for 2 years, I was doing very well on maintenance. They
Laughed.

I calmly explained I did not over dose on anything, I hadn’t had my
dose since yesterday. And since this hospital visit wil! l surely cause
me to miss the abbreviated saturday dosing hours at the clinic, could
you please give me 80mgs of methadone.

The laughed again. I was told “There is no way in hell we are giving
you ANY narcotic”.

I showed them my MM ID card and explained that they were obliged to,
please call the clinic doctor to confirm. They refused to call. I
started to complain loudly. The nurses called down a couple of orderlys
to intimidate me.

I was extremely nauseous and they gave me some medicine that
immediately gave me a major anxiety attack. I complained about it, and
they said, oh, its all in your head. You’re just a drug addict who is
craving drugs.

Next thing I know a policeman was at the ER bedside, interrogating me
on a rash of B&E’s that had occured in the area. You know, methadone
patient, addict, criminal, all the same thing. T! he nurses had snitched
me out. I had a fresh scar on one arm from a broken window pane at my
girlfriends. Supposedly a burglar had cut themselves and left a bunch
of blood at the scene ! a few days before. my cut was at least 2 weeks
old.

Then they wouldn’t let me leave to try and make the last 10 minutes of
dosing at the clinic. They wanted to “observe me” and threatened to
restrain me. The cop was hovering near by, calling in all my info to
dispatch, keeping one eye on me, one hand on his gun.

Right as I was planning my escape I happened to hear a faint
announcement over the ER PA “Doctor so and so, you have a Doctor
Johnson on line 2” Doctor Johnson was my clinic doctor. I had left a
message on the clinics machine at 5am saying i was heading to hospital.
Luckily the doctor was checking her messages and following up.

3 minutes later I was given my methadone. But only because my clinic
doctor read them the riot act. I could over hear the ER doctor back
pedaling on the phone, lying, saying we weren’t really sure he was
really a p! atient of yours, saying how busy they were there, didn’t the
nurse call yet, and all kinds of BS.

No apology to me, they wouldn’t even look me in the eye after that.

5 and a 1/2 hours later I walked out of the hospital.

a month later I was hit with an $850 bill. No Insurance.

One good thing was those 10mg dolophine pills seemed to be much more
effective than the methadose liquid they hand out at the clinic, so by
11 am I was feeling pretty good, but extremely pissed off.

ok, my little war story is over.

_.dh

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From: Ijodamage@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Question about crack
Date: July 16, 2004 at 2:36:32 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi

I’m a bit new to all this. My main interest is on behalf of my ex who I love dearly but am unable to live with 10 years of crack and heroin abuse. I have never used but have seen the torment he is in with it all many many times.

How do you gauge whether someone is genuine about what they’re doing prior to treatment, and indeed physically up to it?

I would assume, albeit tentatively that the experiences differ with every individual, but is there some kind of support network after the initial treatment?

How does the process start?

cheers

Josie

From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] getting dosed (abused) in the ER
Date: July 16, 2004 at 2:34:28 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Still doing good in comparison but obviously got back on the meth and doing the ibo on the 26th. Boy oh boy we did some runnin. Wow, someone to a test to how fucked up I was. Well needless to say  all that good shit didn’t last that long from the last time I saw you.
I broke up with mny fiancee and things got progressively worse from there. Back to dope not much coke but then on meth to start all over again except this time coming down wasn’t the cake walk it once was not to mention staying away was from the shit was much harder too because in my mind I had failed when I never thought I would so the dipping and dabbing became kind of a regular thing. Now I’m on 90 and except for one slip with dope a couple of days ago that I hated I’m not doing anything but smoking hashplant and counting the days. Good to know its you. -M.

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Mark wrote >if you are who i think you are i know youd remember me<

I did know a few addict Marks. One got into real estate last time I saw him,
doing really well. Not you I take it? Others I’m sure I’d remember when
seeing them face to face or in photos, but I’d need just a wee bit more info
Mark to know for sure who you are or if I did/do know you. Bells are
ringing, but I usually tend to ignore them, fearing the worst.
;-))
No, seriously, There are all kinds of photos of me at various stages of NYC
life at http://www.drugwar.com/PrestonPeetIndex.shtm (all since getting off
heroin/cocaine amusingly enough when I look at one or two of ’em again),
as well as an assortment of drugwar misadventure horror tales about my time
running the streets of a variety of cities, mainly focusing on LES during
the early-mid 90s. This should cement for you whether I’m “the one” you
suspect I am. Scroll down the page to find this link
(http://www.drugwar.com/somethingintheway.shtm) and read selected chapters
from:

Something in the Way-
selected chapters
from the (still @$#!%) unpublished novel by Preston Peet about one rebel
junky living life on the farthest edges on city streets both sides of the
Atlantic, strung out and struggling day to day to survive and supply his
ever increase habit.

Central Park Schizo
In which Thoms makes the move to Central Park, learning the ropes while
sustaining his career as street bound junky, living in the park and sinking
into the darker realms of cocaine abuse.

Winter Hole
In which the heroic New York City Fire Department comes crashing into
Thomas’ safe haven and saves him from discovery by forces of the law.

Narcan- Bringing the Dead Back to Life
In which a friend overdoses on the floor on a local resturant but is
revived.

Jocko
In which Thomas sells fake drugs to the wrong guy.

Out of Action
Thomas checks into the hospital in serious risk of losing his arm.

Spit on the Floor- thankful and lucky to be alive
Thomas fades away, then fades back in again.

Outburst- a New Years Tale
Thomas burns some bridges in Rotterdam.

There are a few more that aren’t at this time included as “chapters” per se
further down the PrestonPeetIndex page.

A few I knew then even have starring roles in one or another chapter- I’m
thinking specifically about my friend Marcus now.
That chapter is NOT online, and unfortunatly, the #%@#!$ disc on which I
saved the manuscript is fucked and not working, and the $@#^@% computer I
wrote most of the book on is also fucked and not working, so I have to
transcribe the whole thing, sans the above chapters, again. That’s actually
cool though, as I need to do some major rewrites and the like anyway.
But god it’s a bitch trying to start a rewrite, when I just can’t
seem…errr, no, let’s rephrase, I just haven’t made myself do it (will
ibogaine change my perspective on this? One of those side things I’m
wondering if ibogaine will affect in any way.) and I now at this moment as
of this morning have to do a completely re-read of the book (first draft
after book hit layout) called “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide
to Drugs” which I just finished editing a couple months back, and which will
be out, from The Disinformation Company ,(http://www.disinfo.com) in October
2004 before I even begin to think about my own personal creative writing,
again.
Now I begin to blather and rant and make excuses, so allow me to bid
adieu.
Adieu.
Peace,
Preston (let me know if I am the “one” Mark, and give a bit more details
please.)

—– Original Message —–
From: mcorcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 12:56 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] getting dosed (abused) in the ER

Preston, i think i know you from the LES in the early- mid 90s. Me- mark-
blond hair i was friends with another guy named Nathan or Nate if you are
who i think you are i know youd remember me

Preston Peet wrote:
another one-

I went to the hospital, Beth Israel, here in Manhattan, at around 1AM one
morning while a homeless junky. I waited and waited for the intake nurse to
finally see me, and once she did, I registered a 103 temperature. She
immediately noted that, and said “have a seat, someone will be ‘right out’
to get you.”
I passed out in a waiting room chair.
Next thing I know, one of the security guards is nudging me, saying, “Ok
pal, time to go,” or words to this effect.
Groggily I said, “cool.”
Still groggy, I turned towards the ER intake area when we reached that
door, but ol’ guard guy grabs me and says, “no, this way,” and turned me
towards the exit.
I said, “no, I’m waiting to be intook.”
He said, “no, they called your name 3 times already. You’re outta here.”
So, each time they called my name he apparently heard it, but didn’t
feel it necessary to wake me.
He did take it upon himself to throw me out on the street though.
Now, I admit, I had accidentally (obviously- who does it on purpose?)
done a dirty hit and knew exactly what was wrong with me, but had had the
brilliant idea that I could use it to get into their detox floor and get off
the drugs.
LOL!
Needless to say I was fuming, arguing loudly with the guy, and continued
to do so until he pulled out his leather gloves and started to pull them on
as he described the ass kicking he was about to give me, along with his
fellow security guards who were now gathering in anticipation of a little
diversion from their normal boring routine. I mean, it’s fun to beat to a
pulp 125 pound junkies, right? So long as we have the gloves on to keep the
blood off, right?
I stumbled away in the early dawn light to find a fix to finally take
care of my splitting heacache.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “D H”
To:
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 2:22 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] getting dosed in the ER

> my little horror story:
>
> I had to go to the ER early one saturday morning vomiting blood.
>
> I told the nurses, doctor, etc, that I was a MM patient.
>
> They immediately grilled me on what did I take to over dose on.
> Examining my arms for track marks. checking my pupils. I told them I
> hadn’t fixed for 2 years, I was doing very well on maintenance. They
> Laughed.
>
> I calmly explained I did not over dose on anything, I hadn’t had my
> dose since yesterday. And since this hospital visit will surely cause
> me to miss the abbreviated saturday dosing hours at the clinic, could
> you please give me 80mgs of methadone.
>
> The laughed again. I was told “There is no way in hell we are giving
> you ANY narcotic”.
>
> I showed them my MM ID card and explained that they were obliged to,
> please call the clinic doctor to confirm. They refused to call. I
> started to complain loudly. The nurses called down a couple of orderlys
> to intimidate me.
>
> I was extremely nauseous and they gave me some medicine that
> immediately gave me a major anxiety attack. I complained about it, and
> they said, oh, its all in your head. You’re just a drug addict who is
> craving drugs.
>
> Next thing I know a policeman was at the ER bedside, interrogating me
> on a rash of B&E’s that had occured in the area. You know, methadone
> patient, addict, criminal, all the same thing. The nurses had snitched
> me out. I had a fresh scar on one arm from a broken window pane at my
> girlfriends. Supposedly a burglar had cut themselves and left a bunch
> of blood at the scene ! a few days before. my cut was at least 2 weeks
> old.
>
> Then they wouldn’t let me leave to try and make the last 10 minutes of
> dosing at the clinic. They wanted to “observe me” and threatened to
> restrain me. The cop was hovering near by, calling in all my info to
> dispatch, keeping one eye on me, one hand on his gun.
>
> Right as I was planning my escape I happened to hear a faint
> announcement over the ER PA “Doctor so and so, you have a Doctor
> Johnson on line 2” Doctor Johnson was my clinic doctor. I had left a
> message on the clinics machine at 5am saying i was heading to hospital.
> Luckily the doctor was checking her messages and following up.
>
> 3 minutes later I was given my methadone. But only because my clinic
> doctor read them the riot act. I could over hear the ER doctor back
> pedaling on the phone, lying, saying we weren’t really sure he was
> really a p! atient of yours, saying how busy they were there, didn’t the
> nurse call yet, and all kinds of BS.
>
> No apology to me, they wouldn’t even look me in the eye after that.
>
> 5 and a 1/2 hours later I walked out of the hospital.
>
> a month later I was hit with an $850 bill. No Insurance.
>
> One good thing was those 10mg dolophine pills seemed to be much more
> effective than the methadose liquid they hand out at the clinic, so by
> 11 am I was feeling pretty good, but extremely pissed off.
>
> ok, my little war story is over.
>
> _.dh
>
>
>
>
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>
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>
>

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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] getting dosed (abused) in the ER
Date: July 16, 2004 at 2:26:57 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

its me.

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Mark wrote >if you are who i think you are i know youd remember me<

I did know a few addict Marks. One got into real estate last time I saw him,
doing really well. Not you I take it? Others I’m sure I’d remember when
seeing them face to face or in photos, but I’d need just a wee bit more info
Mark to know for sure who you are or if I did/do know you. Bells are
ringing, but I usually tend to ignore them, fearing the worst.
;-))
No, seriously, There are all kinds of photos of me at various stages of NYC
life at http://www.drugwar.com/PrestonPeetIndex.shtm (all since getting off
heroin/cocaine amusingly enough when I look at one or two of ’em again),
as well as an assortment of drugwar misadventure horror tales about my time
running the streets of a variety of cities, mainly focusing on LES during
the early-mid 90s. This should cement for you whether I’m “the one” you
suspect I am. Scroll down the page to find this link
(http://www.drugwar.com/somethingintheway.shtm) and read selected chapters
from:

Something in the Way-
selected chapters
from the (still @$#!%) unpublished novel by Preston Peet about one rebel
junky living life on the farthest edges on city streets both sides of the
Atlantic, strung out and struggling day to day to survive and supply his
ever increase habit.

Central Park Schizo
In which Thoms makes the move to Central Park, learning the ropes while
sustaining his career as street bound junky, living in the park and sinking
into the darker realms of cocaine abuse.

Winter Hole
In which the heroic New York City Fire Department comes crashing into
Thomas’ safe haven and saves him from discovery by forces of the law.

Narcan- Bringing the Dead Back to Life
In which a friend overdoses on the floor on a local resturant but is
revived.

Jocko
In which Thomas sells fake drugs to the wrong guy.

Out of Action
Thomas checks into the hospital in serious risk of losing his arm.

Spit on the Floor- thankful and lucky to be alive
Thomas fades away, then fades back in again.

Outburst- a New Years Tale
Thomas burns some bridges in Rotterdam.

There are a few more that aren’t at this time included as “chapters” per se
further down the PrestonPeetIndex page.

A few I knew then even have starring roles in one or another chapter- I’m
thinking specifically about my friend Marcus now.
That chapter is NOT online, and unfortunatly, the #%@#!$ disc on which I
saved the manuscript is fucked and not working, and the $@#^@% computer I
wrote most of the book on is also fucked and not working, so I have to
transcribe the whole thing, sans the above chapters, again. That’s actually
cool though, as I need to do some major rewrites and the like anyway.
But god it’s a bitch trying to start a rewrite, when I just can’t
seem…errr, no, let’s rephrase, I just haven’t made myself do it (will
ibogaine change my perspective on this? One of those side things I’m
wondering if ibogaine will affect in any way.) and I now at this moment as
of this morning have to do a completely re-read of the book (first draft
after book hit layout) called “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide
to Drugs” which I just finished editing a couple months back, and which will
be out, from The Disinformation Company ,(http://www.disinfo.com) in October
2004 before I even begin to think about my own personal creative writing,
again.
Now I begin to blather and rant and make excuses, so allow me to bid
adieu.
Adieu.
Peace,
Preston (let me know if I am the “one” Mark, and give a bit more details
please.)

—– Original Message —–
From: mcorcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 12:56 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] getting dosed (abused) in the ER

Preston, i think i know you from the LES in the early- mid 90s. Me- mark-
blond hair i was friends with another guy named Nathan or Nate if you are
who i think you are i know youd remember me

Preston Peet wrote:
another one-

I went to the hospital, Beth Israel, here in Manhattan, at around 1AM one
morning while a homeless junky. I waited and waited for the intake nurse to
finally see me, and once she did, I registered a 103 temperature. She
immediately noted that, and said “have a seat, someone will be ‘right out’
to get you.”
I passed out in a waiting room chair.
Next thing I know, one of the security guards is nudging me, saying, “Ok
pal, time to go,” or words to this effect.
Groggily I said, “cool.”
Still groggy, I turned towards the ER intake area when we reached that
door, but ol’ guard guy grabs me and says, “no, this way,” and turned me
towards the exit.
I said, “no, I’m waiting to be intook.”
He said, “no, they called your name 3 times already. You’re outta here.”
So, each time they called my name he apparently heard it, but didn’t
feel it necessary to wake me.
He did take it upon himself to throw me out on the street though.
Now, I admit, I had accidentally (obviously- who does it on purpose?)
done a dirty hit and knew exactly what was wrong with me, but had had the
brilliant idea that I could use it to get into their detox floor and get off
the drugs.
LOL!
Needless to say I was fuming, arguing loudly with the guy, and continued
to do so until he pulled out his leather gloves and started to pull them on
as he described the ass kicking he was about to give me, along with his
fellow security guards who were now gathering in anticipation of a little
diversion from their normal boring routine. I mean, it’s fun to beat to a
pulp 125 pound junkies, right? So long as we have the gloves on to keep the
blood off, right?
I stumbled away in the early dawn light to find a fix to finally take
care of my splitting heacache.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “D H”
To:
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 2:22 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] getting dosed in the ER

> my little horror story:
>
> I had to go to the ER early one saturday morning vomiting blood.
>
> I told the nurses, doctor, etc, that I was a MM patient.
>
> They immediately grilled me on what did I take to over dose on.
> Examining my arms for track marks. checking my pupils. I told them I
> hadn’t fixed for 2 years, I was doing very well on maintenance. They
> Laughed.
>
> I calmly explained I did not over dose on anything, I hadn’t had my
> dose since yesterday. And since this hospital visit will surely cause
> me to miss the abbreviated saturday dosing hours at the clinic, could
> you please give me 80mgs of methadone.
>
> The laughed again. I was told “There is no way in hell we are giving
> you ANY narcotic”.
>
> I showed them my MM ID card and explained that they were obliged to,
> please call the clinic doctor to confirm. They refused to call. I
> started to complain loudly. The nurses called down a couple of orderlys
> to intimidate me.
>
> I was extremely nauseous and they gave me some medicine that
> immediately gave me a major anxiety attack. I complained about it, and
> they said, oh, its all in your head. You’re just a drug addict who is
> craving drugs.
>
> Next thing I know a policeman was at the ER bedside, interrogating me
> on a rash of B&E’s that had occured in the area. You know, methadone
> patient, addict, criminal, all the same thing. The nurses had snitched
> me out. I had a fresh scar on one arm from a broken window pane at my
> girlfriends. Supposedly a burglar had cut themselves and left a bunch
> of blood at the scene ! a few days before. my cut was at least 2 weeks
> old.
>
> Then they wouldn’t let me leave to try and make the last 10 minutes of
> dosing at the clinic. They wanted to “observe me” and threatened to
> restrain me. The cop was hovering near by, calling in all my info to
> dispatch, keeping one eye on me, one hand on his gun.
>
> Right as I was planning my escape I happened to hear a faint
> announcement over the ER PA “Doctor so and so, you have a Doctor
> Johnson on line 2” Doctor Johnson was my clinic doctor. I had left a
> message on the clinics machine at 5am saying i was heading to hospital.
> Luckily the doctor was checking her messages and following up.
>
> 3 minutes later I was given my methadone. But only because my clinic
> doctor read them the riot act. I could over hear the ER doctor back
> pedaling on the phone, lying, saying we weren’t really sure he was
> really a p! atient of yours, saying how busy they were there, didn’t the
> nurse call yet, and all kinds of BS.
>
> No apology to me, they wouldn’t even look me in the eye after that.
>
> 5 and a 1/2 hours later I walked out of the hospital.
>
> a month later I was hit with an $850 bill. No Insurance.
>
> One good thing was those 10mg dolophine pills seemed to be much more
> effective than the methadose liquid they hand out at the clinic, so by
> 11 am I was feeling pretty good, but extremely pissed off.
>
> ok, my little war story is over.
>
> _.dh
>
>
>
>
/]=———————————————————————=[\
> [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]
>
\]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>

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Yahoo! Mail is new and improved – Check it out!

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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Yahoo! Mail – 50x more storage than other providers!

From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] a little personal gloating… =)
Date: July 16, 2004 at 2:16:53 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

likewise, congrats on the grad school thing.
Great to hear.
Peace,
Preston

BRAVO.

thanx very much both of you =)

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] a little personal gloating… =)
Date: July 16, 2004 at 2:15:28 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

likewise, congrats on the grad school thing.
Great to hear.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 1:52 PM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] a little personal gloating… =)

BRAVO.

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: jon [mailto:jfreed1@umbc.edu]
Verzonden: vrijdag 16 juli 2004 19:49
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: [ibogaine] a little personal gloating… =)

I just found out that I got into grad school for the fall =)

Apart from just wanting to share that with people, I wanted to tell you
folks in particular, because you’ve all inspired me to believe that
addicts really can help each other, and that’s what I want to do with my
career.

So thank you all for just being there and giving me hope =)

jon

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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[%]

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] getting dosed (abused) in the ER
Date: July 16, 2004 at 2:12:18 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Mark wrote >if you are who i think you are i know youd remember me<

I did know a few addict Marks. One got into real estate last time I saw him,
doing really well. Not you I take it? Others I’m sure I’d remember when
seeing them face to face or in photos, but I’d need just a wee bit more info
Mark to know for sure who you are or if I did/do know you. Bells are
ringing, but I usually tend to ignore them, fearing the worst.
;-))
No, seriously, There are all kinds of photos of me at various stages of NYC
life at http://www.drugwar.com/PrestonPeetIndex.shtm (all since getting off
heroin/cocaine amusingly enough when I look at one or two of ’em again),
as well as an assortment of drugwar misadventure horror tales about my time
running the streets of a variety of cities, mainly focusing on LES during
the early-mid 90s. This should cement for you whether I’m “the one” you
suspect I am. Scroll down the page to find this link
(http://www.drugwar.com/somethingintheway.shtm) and read selected chapters
from:

Something in the Way-
selected chapters
from the (still @$#!%) unpublished novel by Preston Peet about one rebel
junky living life on the farthest edges on city streets both sides of the
Atlantic, strung out and struggling day to day to survive and supply his
ever increase habit.

Central Park Schizo
In which Thoms makes the move to Central Park, learning the ropes while
sustaining his career as street bound junky, living in the park and sinking
into the darker realms of cocaine abuse.

Winter Hole
In which the heroic New York City Fire Department comes crashing into
Thomas’ safe haven and saves him from discovery by forces of the law.

Narcan- Bringing the Dead Back to Life
In which a friend overdoses on the floor on a local resturant but is
revived.

Jocko
In which Thomas sells fake drugs to the wrong guy.

Out of Action
Thomas checks into the hospital in serious risk of losing his arm.

Spit on the Floor- thankful and lucky to be alive
Thomas fades away, then fades back in again.

Outburst- a New Years Tale
Thomas burns some bridges in Rotterdam.

There are a few more that aren’t at this time included as “chapters” per se
further down the PrestonPeetIndex page.

A few I knew then even have starring roles in one or another chapter- I’m
thinking specifically about my friend Marcus now.
That chapter is NOT online, and unfortunatly, the #%@#!$ disc on which I
saved the manuscript is fucked and not working, and the $@#^@% computer I
wrote most of the book on is also fucked and not working, so I have to
transcribe the whole thing, sans the above chapters, again. That’s actually
cool though, as I need to do some major rewrites and the like anyway.
But god it’s a bitch trying to start a rewrite, when I just can’t
seem…errr, no, let’s rephrase, I just haven’t made myself do it (will
ibogaine change my perspective on this? One of those side things I’m
wondering if ibogaine will affect in any way.) and I now at this moment as
of this morning have to do a completely re-read of the book (first draft
after book hit layout) called “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide
to Drugs” which I just finished editing a couple months back, and which will
be out, from The Disinformation Company ,(http://www.disinfo.com) in October
2004 before I even begin to think about my own personal creative writing,
again.
Now I begin to blather and rant and make excuses, so allow me to bid
adieu.
Adieu.
Peace,
Preston (let me know if I am the “one” Mark, and give a bit more details
please.)

—– Original Message —–
From: mcorcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 12:56 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] getting dosed (abused) in the ER

Preston, i think i know you from the LES in the early- mid 90s. Me- mark-
blond hair  i was friends with another guy named Nathan or Nate if you are
who i think you are i know youd remember me

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
another one-

I went to the hospital, Beth Israel, here in Manhattan, at around 1AM one
morning while a homeless junky. I waited and waited for the intake nurse to
finally see me, and once she did, I registered a 103 temperature. She
immediately noted that, and said “have a seat, someone will be ‘right out’
to get you.”
I passed out in a waiting room chair.
Next thing I know, one of the security guards is nudging me, saying, “Ok
pal, time to go,” or words to this effect.
Groggily I said, “cool.”
Still groggy, I turned towards the ER intake area when we reached that
door, but ol’ guard guy grabs me and says, “no, this way,” and turned me
towards the exit.
I said, “no, I’m waiting to be intook.”
He said, “no, they called your name 3 times already. You’re outta here.”
So, each time they called my name he apparently heard it, but didn’t
feel it necessary to wake me.
He did take it upon himself to throw me out on the street though.
Now, I admit, I had accidentally (obviously- who does it on purpose?)
done a dirty hit and knew exactly what was wrong with me, but had had the
brilliant idea that I could use it to get into their detox floor and get off
the drugs.
LOL!
Needless to say I was fuming, arguing loudly with the guy, and continued
to do so until he pulled out his leather gloves and started to pull them on
as he described the ass kicking he was about to give me, along with his
fellow security guards who were now gathering in anticipation of a little
diversion from their normal boring routine. I mean, it’s fun to beat to a
pulp 125 pound junkies, right? So long as we have the gloves on to keep the
blood off, right?
I stumbled away in the early dawn light to find a fix to finally take
care of my splitting heacache.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “D H”
To:
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 2:22 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] getting dosed in the ER

my little horror story:

I had to go to the ER early one saturday morning vomiting blood.

I told the nurses, doctor, etc, that I was a MM patient.

They immediately grilled me on what did I take to over dose on.
Examining my arms for track marks. checking my pupils. I told them I
hadn’t fixed for 2 years, I was doing very well on maintenance. They
Laughed.

I calmly explained I did not over dose on anything, I hadn’t had my
dose since yesterday. And since this hospital visit will surely cause
me to miss the abbreviated saturday dosing hours at the clinic, could
you please give me 80mgs of methadone.

The laughed again. I was told “There is no way in hell we are giving
you ANY narcotic”.

I showed them my MM ID card and explained that they were obliged to,
please call the clinic doctor to confirm. They refused to call. I
started to complain loudly. The nurses called down a couple of orderlys
to intimidate me.

I was extremely nauseous and they gave me some medicine that
immediately gave me a major anxiety attack. I complained about it, and
they said, oh, its all in your head. You’re just a drug addict who is
craving drugs.

Next thing I know a policeman was at the ER bedside, interrogating me
on a rash of B&E’s that had occured in the area. You know, methadone
patient, addict, criminal, all the same thing. The nurses had snitched
me out. I had a fresh scar on one arm from a broken window pane at my
girlfriends. Supposedly a burglar had cut themselves and left a bunch
of blood at the scene ! a few days before. my cut was at least 2 weeks
old.

Then they wouldn’t let me leave to try and make the last 10 minutes of
dosing at the clinic. They wanted to “observe me” and threatened to
restrain me. The cop was hovering near by, calling in all my info to
dispatch, keeping one eye on me, one hand on his gun.

Right as I was planning my escape I happened to hear a faint
announcement over the ER PA “Doctor so and so, you have a Doctor
Johnson on line 2” Doctor Johnson was my clinic doctor. I had left a
message on the clinics machine at 5am saying i was heading to hospital.
Luckily the doctor was checking her messages and following up.

3 minutes later I was given my methadone. But only because my clinic
doctor read them the riot act. I could over hear the ER doctor back
pedaling on the phone, lying, saying we weren’t really sure he was
really a p! atient of yours, saying how busy they were there, didn’t the
nurse call yet, and all kinds of BS.

No apology to me, they wouldn’t even look me in the eye after that.

5 and a 1/2 hours later I walked out of the hospital.

a month later I was hit with an $850 bill. No Insurance.

One good thing was those 10mg dolophine pills seemed to be much more
effective than the methadose liquid they hand out at the clinic, so by
11 am I was feeling pretty good, but extremely pissed off.

ok, my little war story is over.

_.dh

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail is new and improved – Check it out!

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From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: [ibogaine] thought you all might be interested in this…
Date: July 16, 2004 at 2:10:52 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Medical Pot Use Facilitates AIDS Treatment, Study Says

Bangkok, Thailand:  Patients who use medicinal cannabis to combat the
side-effects of anti-HIV drugs are more likely to remain on their
prescribed drug therapies than those who do not, according to
cross-sectional survey data presented this week at the XV International
AIDS Conference in Bangkok, Thailand.
Among patients suffering from nausea associated with anti-retroviral
therapy, those who used medical marijuana were 3.3 times more likely to
adhere to their medication regimens than non-users, a research team from
the University of California at Berkeley and Stanford University found.
Researchers based their findings on interviews with more than 160
patients.
“Our data suggest that medicinal use of marijuana may facilitate,
rather than impede, anti-retroviral therapy adherence for patients with
nausea, in contrast to the use of other illicit substances, which was
associated with decreased adherence,” researchers concluded.
The results come six months after a San Francisco research team
reported that smoking marijuana significantly alleviated pain in patients
suffering from HIV-associated neuropathy.  In that study, 12 of the 16
participants achieved at least a 30 percent reduction in pain after
smoking cannabis.  A 30 percent reduction in pain is considered to be a
clinically meaningful amount of pain relief.
Follow up clinical trails examining the role of cannabinoids in HIV
and AIDS patient populations are ongoing at California’s Center for
Medicinal Cannabis Research.
Last year, clinical trial data published in the journal Annals of
Internal Medicine reported that short-term use of oral and inhaled
marijuana does not elevate viral load in individuals with HIV infection
who are receiving antiretroviral medications.  As a result, authors of the
study suggested that the medicinal use of inhaled marijuana has
“acceptable safety in a vulnerable immune-compromised patient population.”
Most recently, a review of cannabinoids’ impact on the immune system
published in the June issue of the German journal Der Schmerz concluded,
“Most human studies have failed to demonstrate a well-defined and
reproducable immuno-suppressive cannabinoid-effect.”
For more information, please contact either Paul Armentano or Allen
St. Pierre of the NORML Foundation at (202) 483-5500.  Abstracts of the
survey data presented to the XV International AIDS Conference is available
online at:
http://www.ias.se/bangkok/abstract.aspx?elementID=2170148

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From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: on another note…
Date: July 16, 2004 at 2:04:02 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

2. they (Bushco) let this happen

indeed… can we say “perl harbour”?

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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] a little personal gloating… =)
Date: July 16, 2004 at 1:52:47 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

BRAVO.

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: jon [mailto:jfreed1@umbc.edu]
Verzonden: vrijdag 16 juli 2004 19:49
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: [ibogaine] a little personal gloating… =)

I just found out that I got into grad school for the fall =)

Apart from just wanting to share that with people, I wanted to tell you
folks in particular, because you’ve all inspired me to believe that
addicts really can help each other, and that’s what I want to do with my
career.

So thank you all for just being there and giving me hope =)

jon

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From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: on another note…
Date: July 16, 2004 at 1:51:31 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

what the government fails to admit is that Osama was and most likely
still is a CIA asset.

“we” “made” Osama Bin Laden.

Terrorism = another grand scheme/excuse for world police-state
domination.

hell, not only did we make bin laden, but we made saddam hussein too..

those awful chemical weapons we were berating him for using… guess who
gave them to him?

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From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: [ibogaine] a little personal gloating… =)
Date: July 16, 2004 at 1:49:18 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I just found out that I got into grad school for the fall =)

Apart from just wanting to share that with people, I wanted to tell you
folks in particular, because you’ve all inspired me to believe that
addicts really can help each other, and that’s what I want to do with my
career.

So thank you all for just being there and giving me hope =)

jon

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: QURADO@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] buprenorphine
Date: July 16, 2004 at 1:39:50 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

JUST DID IT AND ITS A GREAT DETOX HANK

From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] getting dosed (abused) in the ER
Date: July 16, 2004 at 12:56:10 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston, i think i know you from the LES in the early- mid 90s. Me- mark- blond hair  i was friends with another guy named Nathan or Nate if you are who i think you are i know youd remember me

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
another one-

I went to the hospital, Beth Israel, here in Manhattan, at around 1AM one
morning while a homeless junky. I waited and waited for the intake nurse to
finally see me, and once she did, I registered a 103 temperature. She
immediately noted that, and said “have a seat, someone will be ‘right out’
to get you.”
I passed out in a waiting room chair.
Next thing I know, one of the security guards is nudging me, saying, “Ok
pal, time to go,” or words to this effect.
Groggily I said, “cool.”
Still groggy, I turned towards the ER intake area when we reached that
door, but ol’ guard guy grabs me and says, “no, this way,” and turned me
towards the exit.
I said, “no, I’m waiting to be intook.”
He said, “no, they called your name 3 times already. You’re outta here.”
So, each time they called my name he apparently heard it, but didn’t
feel it necessary to wake me.
He did take it upon himself to throw me out on the street though.
Now, I admit, I had accidentally (obviously- who does it on purpose?)
done a dirty hit and knew exactly what was wrong with me, but had had the
brilliant idea that I could use it to get into their detox floor and get off
the drugs.
LOL!
Needless to say I was fuming, arguing loudly with the guy, and continued
to do so until he pulled out his leather gloves and started to pull them on
as he described the ass kicking he was about to give me, along with his
fellow security guards who were now gathering in anticipation of a little
diversion from their normal boring routine. I mean, it’s fun to beat to a
pulp 125 pound junkies, right? So long as we have the gloves on to keep the
blood off, right?
I stumbled away in the early dawn light to find a fix to finally take
care of my splitting heacache.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “D H”
To:
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 2:22 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] getting dosed in the ER

> my little horror story:
>
> I had to go to the ER early one saturday morning vomiting blood.
>
> I told the nurses, doctor, etc, that I was a MM patient.
>
> They immediately grilled me on what did I take to over dose on.
> Examining my arms for track marks. checking my pupils. I told them I
> hadn’t fixed for 2 years, I was doing very well on maintenance. They
> Laughed.
>
> I calmly explained I did not over dose on anything, I hadn’t had my
> dose since yesterday. And since this hospital visit will surely cause
> me to miss the abbreviated saturday dosing hours at the clinic, could
> you please give me 80mgs of methadone.
>
> The laughed again. I was told “There is no way in hell we are giving
> you ANY narcotic”.
>
> I showed them my MM ID card and explained that they were obliged to,
> please call the clinic doctor to confirm. They refused to call. I
> started to complain loudly. The nurses called down a couple of orderlys
> to intimidate me.
>
> I was extremely nauseous and they gave me some medicine that
> immediately gave me a major anxiety attack. I complained about it, and
> they said, oh, its all in your head. You’re just a drug addict who is
> craving drugs.
>
> Next thing I know a policeman was at the ER bedside, interrogating me
> on a rash of B&E’s that had occured in the area. You know, methadone
> patient, addict, criminal, all the same thing. The nurses had snitched
> me out. I had a fresh scar on one arm from a broken window pane at my
> girlfriends. Supposedly a burglar had cut themselves and left a bunch
> of blood at the scene a few days before. my cut was at least 2 weeks
> old.
>
> Then they wouldn’t let me leave to try and make the last 10 minutes of
> dosing at the clinic. They wanted to “observe me” and threatened to
> restrain me. The cop was hovering near by, calling in all my info to
> dispatch, keeping one eye on me, one hand on his gun.
>
> Right as I was planning my escape I happened to hear a faint
> announcement over the ER PA “Doctor so and so, you have a Doctor
> Johnson on line 2” Doctor Johnson was my clinic doctor. I had left a
> message on the clinics machine at 5am saying i was heading to hospital.
> Luckily the doctor was checking her messages and following up.
>
> 3 minutes later I was given my methadone. But only because my clinic
> doctor read them the riot act. I could over hear the ER doctor back
> pedaling on the phone, lying, saying we weren’t really sure he was
> really a patient of yours, saying how busy they were there, didn’t the
> nurse call yet, and all kinds of BS.
>
> No apology to me, they wouldn’t even look me in the eye after that.
>
> 5 and a 1/2 hours later I walked out of the hospital.
>
> a month later I was hit with an $850 bill. No Insurance.
>
> One good thing was those 10mg dolophine pills seemed to be much more
> effective than the methadose liquid they hand out at the clinic, so by
> 11 am I was feeling pretty good, but extremely pissed off.
>
> ok, my little war story is over.
>
> _.dh
>
>
>
>
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>
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>
>

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Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail is new and improved – Check it out!

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] looks and teeth on meth
Date: July 16, 2004 at 12:45:42 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Those people you see in the supermarket and you
say to yourself “that’s guys definitely on meth” <

I was lucky, and got off before I got that “look,” even having a cop tell me
once, “hey, funny, you don’t look like yer on meth.”
Hmmm.
Wonder why?
Of course, I’m close to loosing all the teeth, but hey, they hurt anyway and
make eating difficult, so who cares? (methadone fucked my teeth, if you’ll
excuse the French.)
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Mark Corcoran” <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 3:53 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] getting dosed in the ER

THAT’S WHAT I’M TALKIN ABOUT!!! Now imagine that there was some kind of a
terrorist attack or natural disaster that was on an even grander scale
that
9-11. It could be days before it was safe to take the duck tape off the
windows and leave the house, just ask Tom Ridge. He said specifically said
that every American household should has enough food water and medicine
for
at least a week in case of a terror attack. You think that means homeland
security will advise doctors to provide MMTP patients with a week supply
of
meth just in case? Of course not,  because they don’t think we can be
trusted. The way dh was treated is the rule and not the exception and I
can’t ever see that changing. They hear methadone and they think junkie,
criminal, derelict, etc. That’s America.

on another note, why is it that after a while on meth some people get that
look? You know the look. The eyes get really sunken back in the head and
the
balance is slightly off (usually with a cane) just completely shot
looking.
They also tend to wear sunglasses all the time and wear a lot of jewelry
or
all of the jewelry they have all at once… oh yeah and no teeth.  Please
tell me I’m not alone here. Those people you see in the supermarket and
you
say to yourself “that’s guys definitely on meth”  Now I’ve heard all the
rumors like its gets into your bones, and all the rest but can someone out
there tell me what that meth look is all about and where does it come
from?
It looks as if their brain was soaked or is swimming in something toxic,
actually that’s it, they have this toxic look to them…maybe that’s it. I
have been on and off meth for 5 or 6 years and I know that no one in the
supermarket looks at me and would ever think that which is just more
motivation to get off because who knows if just one day I’ll wake up and
be
one of those guys. What a thought! I just can’t wait to be free of all
this!

Hey all. -M.

—– Original Message —–
From: “D H” <dave@phantom.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 2:22 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] getting dosed in the ER

my little horror stor

I had to go to the ER early one saturday morning vomiting blood.

I told the nurses, doctor, etc, that I was a MM patient.

They immediately grilled me on what did I take to over dose on.
Examining my arms for track marks. checking my pupils. I told them I
hadn’t fixed for 2 years, I was doing very well on maintenance. They
Laughed.

I calmly explained I did not over dose on anything, I hadn’t had my
dose since yesterday. And since this hospital visit will surely cause
me to miss the abbreviated saturday dosing hours at the clinic, could
you please give me 80mgs of methadone.

The laughed again. I was told “There is no way in hell we are giving
you ANY narcotic”.

I showed them my MM ID card and explained that they were obliged to,
please call the clinic doctor to confirm. They refused to call. I
started to complain loudly. The nurses called down a couple of orderlys
to intimidate me.

I was extremely nauseous and they gave me some medicine that
immediately gave me a major anxiety attack. I complained about it, and
they said, oh, its all in your head. You’re just a drug addict who is
craving drugs.

Next thing I know a policeman was at the ER bedside, interrogating me
on a rash of B&E’s that had occured in the area. You know, methadone
patient, addict, criminal, all the same thing. The nurses had snitched
me out. I had a fresh scar on one arm from a broken window pane at my
girlfriends. Supposedly a burglar had cut themselves and left a bunch
of blood at the scene a few days before. my cut was at least 2 weeks
old.

Then they wouldn’t let me leave to try and make the last 10 minutes of
dosing at the clinic. They wanted to “observe me” and threatened to
restrain me. The cop was hovering near by, calling in all my info to
dispatch, keeping one eye on me, one hand on his gun.

Right as I was planning my escape I happened to hear a faint
announcement over the ER PA “Doctor so and so, you have a Doctor
Johnson on line 2” Doctor Johnson was my clinic doctor. I had left a
message on the clinics machine at 5am saying i was heading to hospital.
Luckily the doctor was checking her messages and following up.

3 minutes later I was given my methadone. But only because my clinic
doctor read them the riot act. I could over hear the ER doctor back
pedaling on the phone, lying, saying we weren’t really sure he was
really a patient of yours, saying how busy they were there, didn’t the
nurse call yet, and all kinds of BS.

No apology to me, they wouldn’t even look me in the eye after that.

5 and a 1/2 hours later I walked out of the hospital.

a month later I was hit with an $850 bill. No Insurance.

One good thing was those 10mg dolophine pills seemed to be much more
effective than the methadose liquid they hand out at the clinic, so by
11 am I was feeling pretty good, but extremely pissed off.

ok, my little war story is over.

_.dh

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[%]

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/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] getting dosed (abused) in the ER
Date: July 16, 2004 at 12:32:45 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

another one-

I went to the hospital, Beth Israel, here in Manhattan, at around 1AM one
morning while a homeless junky. I waited and waited for the intake nurse to
finally see me, and once she did, I registered a 103 temperature. She
immediately noted that, and said “have a seat, someone will be ‘right out’
to get you.”
I passed out in a waiting room chair.
Next thing I know, one of the security guards is nudging me, saying, “Ok
pal, time to go,” or words to this effect.
Groggily I said, “cool.”
Still groggy, I turned towards the ER intake area when we reached that
door, but ol’ guard guy grabs me and says, “no, this way,” and turned me
towards the exit.
I said, “no, I’m waiting to be intook.”
He said, “no, they called your name 3 times already. You’re outta here.”
So, each time they called my name he apparently heard it, but didn’t
feel it necessary to wake me.
He did take it upon himself to throw me out on the street though.
Now, I admit, I had accidentally (obviously- who does it on purpose?)
done a dirty hit and knew exactly what was wrong with me, but had had the
brilliant idea that I could use it to get into their detox floor and get off
the drugs.
LOL!
Needless to say I was fuming, arguing loudly with the guy, and continued
to do so until he pulled out his leather gloves and started to pull them on
as he described the ass kicking he was about to give me, along with his
fellow security guards who were now gathering in anticipation of a little
diversion from their normal boring routine. I mean, it’s fun to beat to a
pulp 125 pound junkies, right? So long as we have the gloves on to keep the
blood off, right?
I stumbled away in the early dawn light to find a fix to finally take
care of my splitting heacache.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “D H” <dave@phantom.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 2:22 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] getting dosed in the ER

my little horror story:

I had to go to the ER early one saturday morning vomiting blood.

I told the nurses, doctor, etc, that I was a MM patient.

They immediately grilled me on what did I take to over dose on.
Examining my arms for track marks. checking my pupils. I told them I
hadn’t fixed for 2 years, I was doing very well on maintenance. They
Laughed.

I calmly explained I did not over dose on anything, I hadn’t had my
dose since yesterday. And since this hospital visit will surely cause
me to miss the abbreviated saturday dosing hours at the clinic, could
you please give me 80mgs of methadone.

The laughed again. I was told “There is no way in hell we are giving
you ANY narcotic”.

I showed them my MM ID card and explained that they were obliged to,
please call the clinic doctor to confirm. They refused to call. I
started to complain loudly. The nurses called down a couple of orderlys
to intimidate me.

I was extremely nauseous and they gave me some medicine that
immediately gave me a major anxiety attack. I complained about it, and
they said, oh, its all in your head. You’re just a drug addict who is
craving drugs.

Next thing I know a policeman was at the ER bedside, interrogating me
on a rash of B&E’s that had occured in the area. You know, methadone
patient, addict, criminal, all the same thing. The nurses had snitched
me out. I had a fresh scar on one arm from a broken window pane at my
girlfriends. Supposedly a burglar had cut themselves and left a bunch
of blood at the scene a few days before. my cut was at least 2 weeks
old.

Then they wouldn’t let me leave to try and make the last 10 minutes of
dosing at the clinic. They wanted to “observe me” and threatened to
restrain me. The cop was hovering near by, calling in all my info to
dispatch, keeping one eye on me, one hand on his gun.

Right as I was planning my escape I happened to hear a faint
announcement over the ER PA “Doctor so and so, you have a Doctor
Johnson on line 2” Doctor Johnson was my clinic doctor. I had left a
message on the clinics machine at 5am saying i was heading to hospital.
Luckily the doctor was checking her messages and following up.

3 minutes later I was given my methadone. But only because my clinic
doctor read them the riot act. I could over hear the ER doctor back
pedaling on the phone, lying, saying we weren’t really sure he was
really a patient of yours, saying how busy they were there, didn’t the
nurse call yet, and all kinds of BS.

No apology to me, they wouldn’t even look me in the eye after that.

5 and a 1/2 hours later I walked out of the hospital.

a month later I was hit with an $850 bill. No Insurance.

One good thing was those 10mg dolophine pills seemed to be much more
effective than the methadose liquid they hand out at the clinic, so by
11 am I was feeling pretty good, but extremely pissed off.

ok, my little war story is over.

_.dh

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From: sara119@xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Sara and Iboga/Ibogaine
Date: July 16, 2004 at 12:18:06 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

julian I have a question for you. email me direct. mcorcoran27@hotmail.com

Sapphirestardus@aol.com wrote:Howard, How are you doing? I have been
getting as much info as I can about Ibogaine treatment as my case is
finally settled. I have spoken with Eric Taub which Jason had advised me
to call. I am trying to contact Sara but I never get a response from her.
Either she hates me and refuses to speak with me, is away on a trip(?) or
there is something wrong with the address. I am using sara119@xs4all. What
do you think is the problem? Thank you for your time.
Sincerely,
Julian

Hi julian,

It is sara119@xs4all.nl I think that is why I haven’t got your e mail.

sorry about that.

you are welcome to call me at 011-31-346-241770

Sara

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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Sara and Iboga/Ibogaine
Date: July 16, 2004 at 12:12:17 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

julian I have a question for you. email me direct. mcorcoran27@hotmail.com

Sapphirestardus@aol.com wrote:
Howard, How are you doing? I have been getting as much info as I can about Ibogaine treatment as my case is finally settled. I have spoken with Eric Taub which Jason had advised me to call. I am trying to contact Sara but I never get a response from her. Either she hates me and refuses to speak with me, is away on a trip(?) or there is something wrong with the address. I am using sara119@xs4all. What do you think is the problem? Thank you for your time.
Sincerely,
Julian

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail is new and improved – Check it out!

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Sara and Iboga/Ibogaine
Date: July 16, 2004 at 9:46:36 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/16/04 8:12:23 AM, Sapphirestardus@aol.com writes:

Howard, How are you doing? I have been getting as much info as I can about
Ibogaine treatment as my case is finally settled. I have spoken with Eric
Taub which Jason had advised me to call. I am trying to contact Sara but I
never
get a response from her. Either she hates me and refuses to speak with me,
is away on a trip(?) or there is something wrong with the address. I am using
sara119@xs4all. What do you think is the problem? Thank you for your time.

011 31 34 624 1770

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Sara and Iboga/Ibogaine
Date: July 16, 2004 at 9:11:09 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Howard, How are you doing? I have been getting as much info as I can about Ibogaine treatment as my case is finally settled. I have spoken with Eric Taub which Jason had advised me to call. I am trying to contact Sara but I never get a response from her. Either she hates me and refuses to speak with me, is away on a trip(?) or there is something wrong with the address. I am using sara119@xs4all. What do you think is the problem? Thank you for your time.
Sincerely,
Julian

From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] getting dosed in the ER
Date: July 16, 2004 at 9:04:36 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Mornin all. Yeah that is what everyone at the program tells you. They say its the other drugs and then they tell you that all of those people with walking devices (cane’s walkers) is becasue they beat themsevles up on the street and it has nothing to do with the meth. I don’t know what to believe. All I do know is since I’ ve been on this shit, and its been a long time now, I can not remember walking up one moreing wsithout somekind of pain. I never feel healthy. ANyway speaking of…. its a bout that time and I can’t think stright becasue I’m going down. Let me go get dosed and then I’ll be back.

Sapphirestardus@aol.com wrote:
Mark, I know the look you are talking about and though I won’t swear it is the same in your experience, in my experience it was not the meth, but the meth and all the other shit they are taking. Especially xanax and valium. I swear to you it took me a long time but I discovered that those that only took their meth and maybe got high occassionally did not have that look and posture that indicates what you see. But those that were using alot of shit especially Benzos with their meth had that posture and look. They even had a certain tone of voice similiar to one who uses smack all the time and nods alot. I can’t believe you brought this out because I thought I was alone in seeing this look and posture and voice!

Regards man,
Julian

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Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete – You start. We finish.

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] getting dosed in the ER
Date: July 16, 2004 at 8:47:56 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Mark, I know the look you are talking about and though I won’t swear it is the same in your experience, in my experience it was not the meth, but the meth and all the other shit they are taking. Especially xanax and valium. I swear to you it took me a long time but I discovered that those that only took their meth and maybe got high occassionally did not have that look and posture that indicates what you see. But those that were using alot of shit especially Benzos with their meth had that posture and look. They even had a certain tone of voice similiar to one who uses smack all the time and nods alot. I can’t believe you brought this out because I thought I was alone in seeing this look and posture and voice!

Regards man,
Julian

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] getting dosed in the ER
Date: July 16, 2004 at 8:39:25 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Het Dave, I’m really sorry to hear about what happened to you and though I also hate to be a cynic or pessimist, I think all of us better be prepared to deal with this type of shit if some sort of emergency occurrs. Howard is correct that NY clinics do have better procedures installed but that is probably due to the amount of addicts we have here. Still, I know from experience that anyone who feels confident and assured that there will be no problem getting medicated in a crisis needs to wake up from their dream and face the nightmare. To most people, we are scumbags! Waste of space taking up oxygen that belongs to “straight people”. God I hate the fucking attitude of humans!! Sorry for my anger but there is quite a bit in this area in me.
Have a good day the rest of you,
Julian

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?
Date: July 16, 2004 at 8:26:44 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Good Morning Mark! I hope you had a good day! I do agree with you about us as people who can never be too hard on ourselves when it comes to learning and knowing about ourselves. Sometimes I am way too hard on myself but other times definitely not hard enough!

See you later,
Julian

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: on another note…
Date: July 16, 2004 at 7:34:18 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Mindvoxians, Let me get on my soap box by saying I don’t know if all this about Osama is true or not. All I know is I think we can protect ourselves if everyone does a little planning. Course if you live in a major city all I can say is get the fuck out of it if you can. I live in the Catskills and I don’t know if we are far enough away from NY City. But if we are I pity the fucker who tries to get my water supply.      Randy

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] are my messages going through?
Date: July 15, 2004 at 8:15:28 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

yes

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: on another note…
Date: July 15, 2004 at 7:12:42 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

yep.

I had 2 thoughts on nine-eleven as I watched the repeated visuals.

1. we had this coming

2. they (Bushco) let this happen

On Thursday, July 15, 2004, at 12:54 PM, mcorcoran wrote:

no argurement here.
we have given the world many good reasons to hate us

D H <dave@phantom.com> wrote:

what the government fails to admit is that Osama was and most likely
still is a CIA asset.

“we” “made” Osama Bin Laden.

Terrorism = another grand scheme/excuse for world police-state
domination.

> Who knows what to believe but it makes understanding why we mighty not
> have
> been attacked in 3 years. Scary.
> —– Original Message —–
> From: “Mark Corcoran”
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 5:53 PM
> Subject: Fw:
>
>
>>
>> —– Original Message —–
>> From: “Michael Carew”
>> To: ;
>> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 5:28 PM
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Bin Laden’s Goal: Kill 4 Million Americans
>>>

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

<image.tiff>

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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: on another note…
Date: July 15, 2004 at 6:55:10 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

and it aint “FREEDOM”

D H <dave@phantom.com> wrote:
what the government fails to admit is that Osama was and most likely
still is a CIA asset.

“we” “made” Osama Bin Laden.

Terrorism = another grand scheme/excuse for world police-state
domination.

> Who knows what to believe but it makes understanding why we mighty not
> have
> been attacked in 3 years. Scary.
> —– Original Message —–
> From: “Mark Corcoran”
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 5:53 PM
> Subject: Fw:
>
>
>>
>> —– Original Message —–
>> From: “Michael Carew”
>> To: ;
>> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 5:28 PM
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Bin Laden’s Goal: Kill 4 Million Americans
>>>

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

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New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – 100MB free storage!

From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: on another note…
Date: July 15, 2004 at 6:54:27 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

no argurement here.
we have given the world many good reasons to hate us

D H <dave@phantom.com> wrote:
what the government fails to admit is that Osama was and most likely
still is a CIA asset.

“we” “made” Osama Bin Laden.

Terrorism = another grand scheme/excuse for world police-state
domination.

> Who knows what to believe but it makes understanding why we mighty not
> have
> been attacked in 3 years. Scary.
> —– Original Message —–
> From: “Mark Corcoran”
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 5:53 PM
> Subject: Fw:
>
>
>>
>> —– Original Message —–
>> From: “Michael Carew”
>> To: ;
>> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 5:28 PM
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Bin Laden’s Goal: Kill 4 Million Americans
>>>

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: on another note…
Date: July 15, 2004 at 6:48:57 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

what the government fails to admit is that Osama was and most likely still is a CIA asset.

“we” “made” Osama Bin Laden.

Terrorism = another grand scheme/excuse for world police-state domination.

Who knows what to believe but it makes understanding why we mighty not have
been attacked in 3 years. Scary.
—– Original Message —–
From: “Mark Corcoran” <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com>
To: <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 5:53 PM
Subject: Fw:

—– Original Message —–
From: “Michael Carew” <mikecarew13@yahoo.com>
To: <raymond@madisonhgcd.com>; <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 5:28 PM

Bin Laden’s Goal: Kill 4 Million Americans
<snip>

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] where is the Iboga web pages
Date: July 15, 2004 at 6:29:54 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/15/04 4:25:28 PM, dvarossi@yahoo.co.uk writes:

ibogaine.org

Huge collection of information that is so tangled up I
can’t ever find anything. The sections overlap and I’m
sure made sense a long time ago but it is impossible
to find anything in it.

David,
Google is great.  I often turn to it as my first choice for everything.

On the ibogaine.org issue, There are search boxes on a number of the primary
pages powered by google for ibogaine.org pages.  There are indexes for
science, opinion, the art gallery, etc. and there is the Tours section
htttp://www.ibogaine.org/tours.html to take you on a varying trips through the information.

How would you suggest we improve the site so you can find things more easily?

Howard

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From: “Mark Corcoran” <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fw: on another note…
Date: July 15, 2004 at 5:57:41 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Who knows what to believe but it makes understanding why we mighty not have
been attacked in 3 years. Scary.
—– Original Message —–
From: “Mark Corcoran” <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com>
To: <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 5:53 PM
Subject: Fw:

—– Original Message —–
From: “Michael Carew” <mikecarew13@yahoo.com>
To: <raymond@madisonhgcd.com>; <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 5:28 PM

Bin Laden’s Goal: Kill 4 Million Americans

A new book written by a former FBI consultant claims
that al-Qaeda not only has obtained nuclear devices,
but also likely has them in the U.S. and will detonate
them in the near future. These chilling allegations
appear in “Osama’s Revenge: The Next 9/11: What the
Media and the Government Haven’t Told You,” by Paul L.
Williams (Prometheus Books).

Williams claims that al-Qaida has been planning a
spectacular nuclear attack using six or seven suitcase
nuclear bombs that would be detonated simulantaneously
in U.S. cities.

“They want the most bang for the buck, and that is
nuclear,” Williams told NewsMax.

“I expect such an attack would come between now and
the end of 2005,” the author said.

In addition to writing several books on terrorism,
Williams, an investigative journalist, has worked as
an FBI consultant.

Williams’ contention is not far from what U.S.
intelligence believes, a source close to Homeland
Security Secretary Tom Ridge has told NewsMax. The
source said Ridge claimed that U.S. intelligence
believes terrorists already have smuggled into the
U.S. actual atomic devices, as opposed to so-called
“dirty nukes” that simply are conventional bombs that
help spread radiation.

The Bush administration has warned for years that
terrorists pose a nuclear threat to America.

“It is not a question of if….it is a question of
when,” so claims the author of a controversial new
book “Osama’s Revenge: The Next 9/11: What the Media
and the Government Haven’t Told You,” (Prometheus
Books).

Williams says his “intelligence” concludes the most
likely means of attack would come in the form of a
so-called “suitcase (size) tactical nuclear bomb.”

“The chatter that everyone is referring to is coming
from the nest in Pakistan, a virulent nest in Iran,
the chatter is all about nukes being here….the best
bang for the buck is nuclear, they (al-Qaeda) know
that.”

Such bombs are estimated to have an explosive strength
of approximately “10 kilotons” and could weigh less
than 35 pounds.

“With today’s technology and the Internet, an
experienced person could easily assemble such a bomb
in his home garage,” Williams explained.

A bomb of that strength could easily level Manhattan
and spread lethal radiation throughout the NYC-Metro
area says the author. “It (the nuke) could render
Manhattan unlivable for 1,000 years,” he estimated.

According to Williams, several of the “suitcase nukes”
are already inside the U.S. Some may have been
smuggled in overland from Canada or Mexico, or shipped
from overseas via container ships, he explained.

Another, more ominous method, was a throwback to the
Cold War era.

Williams, quoting Russian military officials, says
Moscow secretly slipped into the continental U.S.
several suitcase nukes to be activated in case of the
breakout of hostilities with Washington.

Today, Williams says many of those “sleeper” nukes
remain in place because some in the Kremlin still
believe a conflict with the U.S. is possible.

The author insists that Al Qaeda has “thousands” of
sympathizers and numerous sleeper cells in the United
States ready to carry out new attacks when given the
OK.

Among the cities Williams says are vulnerable include:
New York, Chicago, Washington, Boston, Los Angeles,
Philadelphia, Dallas, Valdes, Alaska (oil
pipelines-shipping) and Rappohoneck County, VA.

Why a Small County in Rural Virginia?

Williams says it is the home of the underground
command center the White House would move to in the
event of war.

The author refers to recent comments made by
Vice-President Dick Cheney as verification the nuclear
threat from Osama Bin Laden is real.

He also points out that al-Qaeda and Bin Laden have
publicly proclaimed their goal is to kill “4 million
Americans.”

Why 4 Million?

Williams claims that Bin Laden estimates that U.S.
policy in the Mid-East and in Eastern Europe have
resulted in the deaths of 4 million followers of
Islam.

The author is at a loss as to explain why the White
House has not taken more definitive actions.

“I cannot figure out why they (the Bush
administration) have not done more to address the
threat. Maybe they don’t know how or hope nothing will
happen.”

He also blasts the U.S. mass media for not reporting
the “problem:”

“With the exception of Fox News, the problem has
received or little or no attention, despite comments
from the Vice-President of the United States. Maybe
they just don’t understand what it is going on.”

Williams says such nukes made it onto the black market
after the collapse of the Soviet Union (1991) and
during the following decade when Pakistan (with the
assistance of China and North Korea) exploded its
first atomic bombs.

Flush with cash from his secret Afghan/Pakistan
poppy/heroin operations, Osama Bin Laden had the funds
not only to buy such weapons, but the technicians and
scientists needed to maintain and transport them as
well.

Williams says his intelligence estimates that Bin
Laden could actually possess “10 or more” of the
suitcase nukes.

Recent reports from the Central Intelligence Agency
could not confirm that such nukes may have been
stolen, but could not discount the possibility.

Last month, the U.S. Dept. of Energy secretly removed
a stache of highly radioactive materials from Iraq
citing “security concerns.” Washington would not
disclose where in the U.S. the atomic materials were
moved to, but did insist they were now in a highly
secured location.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] are my messages going through?
Date: July 15, 2004 at 5:47:20 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m protecting my anonymity… see no more mark. i can’t believe how much info they have on pot TV. its amazing. maybe 4- 5 hours of real player videos.
one guy on 100 mils and they show the entire experience and although its kinda nerve wracking its so relieving to see how comfortable he is. but if anyone sees this viedo with the italian guy he makes me a little nervous.

i’m going a little nuts. I feel like i’m seeing life through slighlty different eyes. D H <dave@phantom.com> wrote:
yep, at least the 1’s I’ve seen.

On Thursday, July 15, 2004, at 10:55 AM, mcorcoran wrote:

> Are my messages going through?
>
>
>

>
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail – Helps protect you from nasty viruses.

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail is new and improved – Check it out!

From: David Varossi <dvarossi@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] where is the Iboga web pages
Date: July 15, 2004 at 5:22:01 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

ibogaine.mindvox.com

As always with anything Mindvox, beutiful to look at
except none of it loads right unless you have a
expensive computer and a big monitor as was noted on
this list a week ago. Still hasn’t been fixed.

ibogaine.org

Huge collection of information that is so tangled up I
can’t ever find anything. The sections overlap and I’m
sure made sense a long time ago but it is impossible
to find anything in it.

ibogaine.co.uk

Great site which loads and is well organised but not
maintained very often.

ibogaine-research.org

More beautiful eye candy, which is almost the only
thing that is here. Nearly all the papers have been
removed.

Speaking for myself I have better luck searching
through the ibogaine sites using google, then I do
using any of the sites.

mindvox.com

As for Mindvox itself, gorgeous site. So complex that
none of it will make it through the WWW validator yet
it loads perfectly on every browser and every computer
I have ever used it on. Looks as if you folks spent a
huge amount of time and effort to make your
“psychedelic temple” because all of it works
perfectly. Except the only content on the entire site
are deranged rants, weird art and a 90 page media kit
or “Media Temple” if you prefer.

Everyone has their priorities and I much appreciate
the time and effort it must take to keep it all
running and to all the folks who run the web sites.
I’m only stating what it’s like to try and find
anything in all of it.

I gave up and started using google.

Cheers mates
David

Carla Barnes wrote:

The Mindvox site is more a psychedelic temple? 😉
Its
beautiful but thats not the ibogaine part, the
ibogaine part is let me unload bookmarks

http://ibogaine.mindvox.com

Howard has a ibogaine site

http://ibogaine.desk.nl

UK site

http://www.ibogaine.co.uk

Ibogaine scientific site

http://www.ibogaine-research.org

Carla B

— Mustafa izgi <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com> wrote:
Dear Mr. Howard,
What happened to iboga web pages. I made a search
on
google and there is only crabs about iboga. Where
did you move your pages it was one and only. I find
Mindwox but there was only strange pictures in  it.

With My Best Regards
FakePlacebo

___________________________________________________________ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – sooooo many all-new ways to express yourself http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] are my messages going through?
Date: July 15, 2004 at 5:07:10 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

yep, at least the 1’s i’ve seen.

On Thursday, July 15, 2004, at 10:55 AM, mcorcoran wrote:

Are my messages going through?

<image.tiff>

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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] are my messages going through?
Date: July 15, 2004 at 4:55:55 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Are my messages going through?

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – Helps protect you from nasty viruses.

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] My war story
Date: July 15, 2004 at 4:35:26 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Randy,

I guess this shows just how compassionate dope dealers and most medical professionals are to a dope sick junkie.:)

PS: glad to hear your HVC was cured!

Sean

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] getting dosed in the ER
Date: July 15, 2004 at 4:22:36 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Thursday, July 15, 2004, at 09:53 AM, Mark Corcoran wrote:

THAT’S WHAT I’M TALKIN ABOUT!!! Now imagine that there was some kind of a
terrorist attack or natural disaster that was on an even grander scale that
9-11.

expect another terrorist attack say right around election time. Its been authorized at the highest levels, just like 911. The GOP NeoCons are already consulting lawyers on the legality of canceling or at least postponing the election under the guide of a terrorist attack. (see http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/071404A.shtml)

advice: chip back on your take homes and start building a backup supply. minor suffering now for emergency relief later.

on another note, why is it that after a while on meth some people get that
look? You know the look. The eyes get really sunken back in the head and the
balance is slightly off (usually with a cane) just completely shot looking.

Probably because they haven’t taken a shit in 592 days. methadone boulders. Colon toxicity.

I used to have that look, too.

_.dh

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] My war story
Date: July 15, 2004 at 4:05:53 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey fellow Mindvoxians,     I guess my story is good and bad. I found out on my birthday 2002 that I had HVC, worst strain, there’s 3 strains I think. At the time I was on a clinic at 80 mgs. I told the liver Dr. that I was an addict and he said whats your dose and then gave me a months supply of 10 mg. dolophine tabs. 80 mgs. a day. At this point I could not believe the luck I had run into. He started the interferon and rebovarin protocol and things went great. 3 months later he tells me to go to a pain clinic in the town he practiced in to get meth and that they were working with his office to help people. I thought no big deal and went. I was assuming that by help that he meant that this was all worked out. I knew I was in trouble as soon as I saw the pain clinic Dr. and then when she asked me ” just who in the hell wrote you a prescription for this much meth? I told her that the Dr.’s name was on the bottle she was holding and that he was the one who referred me and to please call him and his office would work it all out. WRONG!!!!! they fucked me around for 6 hours and then told me that I would have to come back some time in the next few days. I said that if you look at the date you will see that it ran out yesterday and that I live 120 miles away from here I can’t afford to drive back what am I to do till then? She says I’ll be in the office at 6 a.m. call then. The liver Dr. had told me that if she doesn’t write for you I will and we can at least bring you down 10 mgs. every 2 weeks until you find a clinic or you decide to quit. Back to his office I went and he wrote me a script for 70 mgs. a day for the next 2 weeks. As I am walking to the receptionist to pick up my script I’m thinking maybe I can handle this down 10 every 2 weeks.When I get to the desk this Dr.’s wife was there and she refused to give me the script her husband had wrote saying that he had a problem saying no but that she didn’t and told me to leave. ”  The pain clinic called and said they wrote you a prescription.” I got fucked around for 3 days by these people and was cut off cold turkey. No taper, no nothing. Hell of a way to practice medicine. Let your wife who has no degree at all make your med decisions. Needless to say in 3 days I was starting to get pretty sick. I had no money to pay a clinic and we all know how understanding they are “You had to buy your kid a lunch ticket? Fuck you pay me or no dope.” You are 3 dollars short? Fuck you pay me or no dope.”etc etc etc.I finally came up with another angle but needless to say I was thinking evil thoughts about the whole thing. All parties except me lied and manipulated. Pretty much par for the course in a junkies life. Sorry about the long post but I had to get this off my chest. Pretty fucked up “aint it”           Randy.    PS That Dr. cured the Hep C

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] getting dosed in the ER
Date: July 15, 2004 at 4:04:30 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/15/04 2:54:23 PM, mcorcoran27@hotmail.com writes:

<< THAT’S WHAT I’M TALKIN ABOUT!!! Now imagine that there was some kind of a

terrorist attack or natural disaster that was on an even grander scale that

9-11. It could be days before it was safe to take the duck tape off the

windows and leave the house, just ask Tom Ridge. He said specifically said

that every American household should has enough food water and medicine for

at least a week in case of a terror attack. You think that means homeland

security will advise doctors to provide MMTP patients with a week supply of

meth just in case? Of course not,  because they don’t think we can be

trusted. The way dh was treated is the rule and not the exception and I

can’t ever see that changing. They hear methadone and they think junkie,

criminal, derelict, etc. That’s America. >>

That is why every methadone patient should have a dose of ibogaine in a
sealed package that says, take in case of a terrorist attack.

There were rumors of a green beret unit made up of methadone patients.  Their
med kits contained a thirty day supply of methadone, 2 grams of heroin if
they needed something for pain and a dose of ibogaine if their methadone ran out.

Howard

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From: “Mark Corcoran” <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] getting dosed in the ER
Date: July 15, 2004 at 3:53:09 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

THAT’S WHAT I’M TALKIN ABOUT!!! Now imagine that there was some kind of a
terrorist attack or natural disaster that was on an even grander scale that
9-11. It could be days before it was safe to take the duck tape off the
windows and leave the house, just ask Tom Ridge. He said specifically said
that every American household should has enough food water and medicine for
at least a week in case of a terror attack. You think that means homeland
security will advise doctors to provide MMTP patients with a week supply of
meth just in case? Of course not,  because they don’t think we can be
trusted. The way dh was treated is the rule and not the exception and I
can’t ever see that changing. They hear methadone and they think junkie,
criminal, derelict, etc. That’s America.

on another note, why is it that after a while on meth some people get that
look? You know the look. The eyes get really sunken back in the head and the
balance is slightly off (usually with a cane) just completely shot looking.
They also tend to wear sunglasses all the time and wear a lot of jewelry or
all of the jewelry they have all at once… oh yeah and no teeth.  Please
tell me I’m not alone here. Those people you see in the supermarket and you
say to yourself “that’s guys definitely on meth”  Now I’ve heard all the
rumors like its gets into your bones, and all the rest but can someone out
there tell me what that meth look is all about and where does it come from?
It looks as if their brain was soaked or is swimming in something toxic,
actually that’s it, they have this toxic look to them…maybe that’s it. I
have been on and off meth for 5 or 6 years and I know that no one in the
supermarket looks at me and would ever think that which is just more
motivation to get off because who knows if just one day I’ll wake up and be
one of those guys. What a thought! I just can’t wait to be free of all this!

Hey all. -M.

—– Original Message —–
From: “D H” <dave@phantom.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 2:22 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] getting dosed in the ER

my little horror stor

I had to go to the ER early one saturday morning vomiting blood.

I told the nurses, doctor, etc, that I was a MM patient.

They immediately grilled me on what did I take to over dose on.
Examining my arms for track marks. checking my pupils. I told them I
hadn’t fixed for 2 years, I was doing very well on maintenance. They
Laughed.

I calmly explained I did not over dose on anything, I hadn’t had my
dose since yesterday. And since this hospital visit will surely cause
me to miss the abbreviated saturday dosing hours at the clinic, could
you please give me 80mgs of methadone.

The laughed again. I was told “There is no way in hell we are giving
you ANY narcotic”.

I showed them my MM ID card and explained that they were obliged to,
please call the clinic doctor to confirm. They refused to call. I
started to complain loudly. The nurses called down a couple of orderlys
to intimidate me.

I was extremely nauseous and they gave me some medicine that
immediately gave me a major anxiety attack. I complained about it, and
they said, oh, its all in your head. You’re just a drug addict who is
craving drugs.

Next thing I know a policeman was at the ER bedside, interrogating me
on a rash of B&E’s that had occured in the area. You know, methadone
patient, addict, criminal, all the same thing. The nurses had snitched
me out. I had a fresh scar on one arm from a broken window pane at my
girlfriends. Supposedly a burglar had cut themselves and left a bunch
of blood at the scene a few days before. my cut was at least 2 weeks
old.

Then they wouldn’t let me leave to try and make the last 10 minutes of
dosing at the clinic. They wanted to “observe me” and threatened to
restrain me. The cop was hovering near by, calling in all my info to
dispatch, keeping one eye on me, one hand on his gun.

Right as I was planning my escape I happened to hear a faint
announcement over the ER PA “Doctor so and so, you have a Doctor
Johnson on line 2” Doctor Johnson was my clinic doctor. I had left a
message on the clinics machine at 5am saying i was heading to hospital.
Luckily the doctor was checking her messages and following up.

3 minutes later I was given my methadone. But only because my clinic
doctor read them the riot act. I could over hear the ER doctor back
pedaling on the phone, lying, saying we weren’t really sure he was
really a patient of yours, saying how busy they were there, didn’t the
nurse call yet, and all kinds of BS.

No apology to me, they wouldn’t even look me in the eye after that.

5 and a 1/2 hours later I walked out of the hospital.

a month later I was hit with an $850 bill. No Insurance.

One good thing was those 10mg dolophine pills seemed to be much more
effective than the methadose liquid they hand out at the clinic, so by
11 am I was feeling pretty good, but extremely pissed off.

ok, my little war story is over.

_.dh

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From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] where is the Iboga web pages
Date: July 15, 2004 at 3:34:30 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The Mindvox site is more a psychedelic temple? 😉 Its
beautiful but thats not the ibogaine part, the
ibogaine part is let me unload bookmarks

http://ibogaine.mindvox.com

Howard has a ibogaine site

http://ibogaine.desk.nl

UK site

http://www.ibogaine.co.uk

Ibogaine scientific site

http://www.ibogaine-research.org

Carla B

— Mustafa izgi <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com> wrote:
Dear Mr. Howard,
What happened to iboga web pages. I made a search on
google and there is only crabs about iboga. Where
did you move your pages it was one and only. I find
Mindwox but there was only strange pictures in  it.

With My Best Regards
FakePlacebo

__________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail is new and improved – Check it out!
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From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] changing subject line
Date: July 15, 2004 at 3:24:13 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi I agree with this very much please! I go through
times when I read this list every day, then some of
the time I don’t read it for a week and come back to
800 new messages and it is ____impossible____ to find
something that might be interesting when it is message
120 in a thread that started on one topic, changed 10
times and nobody ever changed the subject line!

I either use yahoo or get my email to my computer on
outlook, please no I hate microsoft jokes 😉 I know
it sucks but I can’t afford a Mac and dont understand
unix and at least Outlook threads the messages and
makes them very easy to sort and read. But it doesn’t
help when some great msg is in the middle of a
reallllly long conversation.

I end up sorting it by name and if patrick or howard
or dave or sara or one of a few people wrote it, then
I read the message, otherwise I never see them at all
and may be missing something very interesting!

Please do change the subject lines! Thanks for saying
that Randy 🙂

Please also don’t anyone take this the wrong way, you
sit down in front of a mail window which has 90
message that have the topic ‘ringing in ears?’ and
whenever I click any msgs in the thread, none of it
has anything to do with anything else and then I just
give up.

I have this problem on every other list or webforum I
have read too, I know people don’t change the topics
much the difference is that I’m very interested in
this list and try to keep up with it but it keeps
growing so much that if I read every msg on it that is
all I would be doing for at least a hour a day.
Sometimes I like that and feel like it’s this
reallycool community that i am glad is here, but when
I haven’t read it for a few days and open it up its
more like oh my god 600 new messages and I can’t find
anything even though I know how to use Outlook and
make it thread the msgs, because nobody ever changed
the subject line!

I finally paid for yahoo which I sortof regret because
their service is awful but at least they gave everyone
a lot more room in their mailbox otherwise just this
list would fill up all my mail space in 2 days! 😉

Love to all

Carla B

— Randy Hencken <randyhencken@hotmail.com> wrote:
Hi everybody,

Sure would be great if all of those who posted here
would change the phrase
in the *subject* line when the subject changes.
With so much going on on
this list it would help us to sort through the
posts.

Thanks.
Randy

__________________________________
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New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – Send 10MB messages!
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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] getting dosed in the ER
Date: July 15, 2004 at 2:22:51 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

my little horror story:

I had to go to the ER early one saturday morning vomiting blood.

I told the nurses, doctor, etc, that I was a MM patient.

They immediately grilled me on what did I take to over dose on. Examining my arms for track marks. checking my pupils. I told them I hadn’t fixed for 2 years, I was doing very well on maintenance. They Laughed.

I calmly explained I did not over dose on anything, I hadn’t had my dose since yesterday. And since this hospital visit will surely cause me to miss the abbreviated saturday dosing hours at the clinic, could you please give me 80mgs of methadone.

The laughed again. I was told “There is no way in hell we are giving you ANY narcotic”.

I showed them my MM ID card and explained that they were obliged to, please call the clinic doctor to confirm. They refused to call. I started to complain loudly. The nurses called down a couple of orderlys to intimidate me.

I was extremely nauseous and they gave me some medicine that immediately gave me a major anxiety attack. I complained about it, and they said, oh, its all in your head. You’re just a drug addict who is craving drugs.

Next thing I know a policeman was at the ER bedside, interrogating me on a rash of B&E’s that had occured in the area. You know, methadone patient, addict, criminal, all the same thing. The nurses had snitched me out. I had a fresh scar on one arm from a broken window pane at my girlfriends. Supposedly a burglar had cut themselves and left a bunch of blood at the scene a few days before. my cut was at least 2 weeks old.

Then they wouldn’t let me leave to try and make the last 10 minutes of dosing at the clinic. They wanted to “observe me” and threatened to restrain me. The cop was hovering near by, calling in all my info to dispatch, keeping one eye on me, one hand on his gun.

Right as I was planning my escape I happened to hear a faint announcement over the ER PA “Doctor so and so, you have a Doctor Johnson on line 2” Doctor Johnson was my clinic doctor. I had left a message on the clinics machine at 5am saying i was heading to hospital. Luckily the doctor was checking her messages and following up.

3 minutes later I was given my methadone. But only because my clinic doctor read them the riot act. I could over hear the ER doctor back pedaling on the phone, lying, saying we weren’t really sure he was really a patient of yours, saying how busy they were there, didn’t the nurse call yet, and all kinds of BS.

No apology to me, they wouldn’t even look me in the eye after that.

5 and a 1/2 hours later I walked out of the hospital.

a month later I was hit with an $850 bill. No Insurance.

One good thing was those 10mg dolophine pills seemed to be much more effective than the methadose liquid they hand out at the clinic, so by 11 am I was feeling pretty good, but extremely pissed off.

ok, my little war story is over.

_.dh

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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [drugwar] Fw: [ibogaine] beware be little ones
Date: July 15, 2004 at 2:10:16 PM EDT
To: drugwar@mindvox.com
Reply-To: drugwar@mindvox.com

Hey list,

It’s always been horrendous, but if now it’s getting close to terrifying.  Picking addicts up off the street and experimenting with them?  Wow.

While I know that the treatment on demand folks have their heart in the right place, this could really make you think.   The connection between the criminal justice system and treatment providers would be greatly strengthen.  Leaving treatment would probably mean going back to jail, as it does now.  This would create a huge pool of human specimens to check out the latest pill form the pipeline.  Certainly give me pause.

Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?
Date: July 15, 2004 at 1:40:55 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi,

I was sent away form a local ER by the triage nurse.  She said, “We are no a detox clinic.”  No further info about where I might find one etc.  We are not a detox clinic, that’s it.

Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?
Date: July 15, 2004 at 1:32:33 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Marcus,

Marcus,

Even though right now things seem pretty grim while you wait for treatment, please give yourself credit for seeking a way out.  For posting on the list how are feeling.  And if possible, give yourself a break now and then.  I am sure you are doing the best you can right now.

Sean

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [drugwar] Fw: [ibogaine] beware be little ones
Date: July 15, 2004 at 1:25:35 PM EDT
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: drugwar@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 12:12 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] beware be little ones

Study: Religious Activitiy Equals Less Sex, Drugs For Some TeensLawsuit:
State fired shrink for exposing abuse

http://indymedia.org.nz/otherpress/display/131/index.php

By NICOLE WEISENSEEEGAN

weisenn@phillynews.com

Dr. Stefan Kruszewski, a prominent Harrisburg psychiatrist who was hired
to
root out fraud, abuse and waste within the state’s Department of Public
Welfare, was fired for doing just that, he alleges in a federal lawsuit.

During the course of his duties, Kruszewski discovered that four children
and
one adult who had been prescribed potentially lethal combinations of
medications died while under state care, he said. He believes they died
from drug
toxicity, but he was not permitted to review the autopsy reports, he
alleges.

He also found that thousands of psychiatric patients on Medicaid and
receiving inpatient treatment in hospitals across the state were being
given bizarre
combinations of drugs they did not need or were given the wrong drugs for
their
conditions, he said.

In Philadelphia, employees of one facility, which he would not name but
which
he recommended be shut down, were going into the community and dragging in
heroin and crack addicts, involuntarily committing them and prescribing
all
sorts of anti-depressants and anti-anxiety medications they didn’t need,
he said.

“I told my supervisor, ‘These medications are killing people. Something’s
wrong here,’ Then they fired me,’ ” said Kruszew-ski, 53, a Harvard
Medical
School graduate, in an exclusive interview yesterday .

Kruszewski’s federal whistleblower lawsuit was filed in Harrisburg on
Friday.
The defendants are: state Welfare Secretary Estelle Richman; Susan Kozak,
Kruszewski’s former supervisor; Christopher Gorton, another supervisor who
no
longer works there; Columbus Medical Services LLC, the company that hired
him,
and two of its executives; and pharmaceutical companies GlaxoSmithKline;
Pfizer,
Inc.; Johnson & Johnson; Novartis; Astrazeneca and Eli Lilly & Co. The
drugs
at issue are Paxil, Neurontin, Geodon, Risperdal, Seroquel, Topamax,
Trileptal
and Zyprexa.

The lawsuit makes a number of stunning accusations against the state and
the
companies, alleging that they had abused Pennsylvania’s
involuntary-commitment
law, overmedicated patients, distorted statistics, violated regulations
and
advisories, including Food and Drug Administration rules, and
intentionally
exaggerated and misrepresented the effects of the drugs on “innocent
persons,
simply to make money.”

The defendants either did not return phone calls requesting comment or
said
they had not yet seen the lawsuit so they could not comment on it.

Kruszewski said he has documented all his findings.

“The evidence I have is absolutely black and white,” he said. “Copies of
the
documents have been made and are in safekeeping in multiple places.”
Former
state auditor general Don Bailey, Kruszewski’s attorney, also represents
Allen
Jones, a former investigator for state Inspector General Donald L.
Patterson,
whose agency is supposed to ferret out corruption within other state
agencies.

Jones began digging into the financial link between pharmaceutical
companies
and state health officials and said he soon discovered that drug companies
were influencing those officials with trips, perks, lavish meals,
transportation
to and from first-class accommodations in major cities, he said. Some
officials were given $2,000 honorariums by the drug companies for speaking
in their
official capacities at drug-company sponsored events, he said.

Jones’ boss pulled him off the probe but said he could continue it on his
own
time. Jones was fired last month after speaking to the media about his
findings. He has two lawsuits pending against the state.

Jones said yesterday that he met Kruszewski only recently, through Bailey.

“It is very interesting that Stefan [Kruszewski] and I came upon different
tentacles of the same beast within the PA mental health system and were
both
fired for trying to expose the corruption,” he said. “Meanwhile, the
corrupted
officials are still in their jobs.”

Jones said he had warned the inspector general, in writing, that deaths of
innocent people were a statistical certainty.

“He refused to consider my concerns,” Jones said. “I believe the office of
inspector general and the governor himself share in the moral
responsibility for
the deaths and injuries Stefan has uncovered.”

Kate Philips, Gov. Rendell’s spokeswoman, declined to comment, citing the
pending litigation. Amy Wasserleben, Inspector General Patterson’s
spokeswoman,
could not be reached for comment.

Bailey, Kruszewski and Jones’ attorney said a clear pattern was emerging
of
lawmakers and state officials’ allowing financial kickbacks from
pharmaceutical
companies to influence their decisionmaking.

“[Jones’] supervisor told him, ‘Drug companies not only write checks to
hospitals, they write checks to politicians…They write checks to both
sides of
the aisle,’ ” Bailey said, adding that the supervisor had admitted making
those
comments in his deposition for one of Jones’ lawsuits.

“There’s billions and billions of dollars involved here, and we are
talking
about the most insidious profiteering imaginable,” Bailey said. “If we
cannot
find an honest federal prosecutor to convene a grand jury to look into
some of
these things, like the deaths, then we are in a crisis.”

Kruszewski was hired on Oct. 9, 2001, by the Columbus organization in King
of
Prussia to do work for the state Department of Public Welfare. He was paid
$15,000 per month. Half his job was conducting medical reviews and appeals
for
the department. The other half was working as a medical-psychiatric
consultant
for the department’s Bureau of Program Integrity. Its mission is to ensure
that the state’s medical-assistance program is protected from provider
“fraud,
waste and abuse,” the lawsuit notes.

“I was told [by Kozak, Kruszewski’s former supervisor] never to look at
the
medications in judging quality of care,” Kruszewski said. “The trouble is
you
can’t do your job and ignore the medications.”

The first disturbing trend he noticed was that an overwhelming number of
psychiatric patients were being prescribed Neurontin, an anti-seizure
drug, to
treat illnesses like anxiety, depression, psychosis and impotence, he
said. The
FDA has not approved using that drug for mental illnesses, he said.

The more he dug, the more disturbing cases he found, he said, including
that
of a mentally retarded 15-year-old girl who was being treated for being
defiant and for sexual promiscuity. She was on 11 medications, including
five
anti-psychotic ones, but did not have a psychiatric disorder, he said, and
was so
overmedicated she had trouble getting out of bed or standing by herself.

“I said, ‘This is more than just craziness. This is criminal,’ ” he said.
“This makes no sense. You couldn’t pay enough to get any psychiatrist in
the
country to say this is reasonable medication.”

Last July 10, he brought this case and others to his supervisors, Kozak
and
Gorton. They blasted him for “digging up dirt” then fired him the next
day,
saying he’d verbally harassed and physically intimidated Kozak, he said.

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] where is the Iboga web pages
Date: July 15, 2004 at 12:38:26 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/15/04 11:32:42 AM, fakeplacebo@hotmail.com writes:

<< What happened to iboga web pages. I made a search on google and there is
only crabs about iboga. Where did you move your pages it was one and only. I
find Mindwox but there was only strange pictures in  it.  >>

There where they have always been.  http://www.ibogaine.org

and you can get some additional stuff at http://www.doraweiner.org

Check out the project pages and the reports that are linked to them.  Table
of contents for the conference brochures are linked to articles.

http://www.doraweiner.org\contentsbf.html
and
http://www.doraweiner.org\contents.html

Enjoy!

Howard

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From: “Mustafa izgi” <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] where is the Iboga web pages
Date: July 15, 2004 at 12:23:49 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Mr. Howard,
What happened to iboga web pages. I made a search on google and there is only crabs about iboga. Where did you move your pages it was one and only. I find Mindwox but there was only strange pictures in  it.

With My Best Regards
FakePlacebo

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] methadone in an emergency – was ringing in ears
Date: July 15, 2004 at 12:06:31 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/15/04 10:54:14 AM, HSLotsof@aol.com writes:

Actually NAMA was trying to push the Center for Substance Abuse Treatment
into funding an experimental data base that would have given methadone
patients an electronic identity/dose card they could have taken to ERs or
other
clinics in an emergency.  CSAT decided not to fund the experiment or to do
so,
so inadequately that its funding was refused.  Actually that was a NY based
study.

You can get more accurate information on this project at:

http://bitchandgripe.com/Patient%20Dignity%20Project.htm

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] methadone in an emergency – was ringing in ears
Date: July 15, 2004 at 11:53:20 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/15/04 10:22:15 AM, CallieMimosa@aol.com writes:

Our clinic in Nashville has the Emergency Procedure hung on the  wall of
the clinic. They put it up after 9/11.
If I remember correctly too, Howard was working on something  like this.
Was you Howard, or did I dream it?

Hi Callie,

Actually NAMA was trying to push the Center for Substance Abuse Treatment
into funding an experimental data base that would have given methadone patients
an electronic identity/dose card they could have taken to ERs or other clinics
in an emergency.  CSAT decided not to fund the experiment or to do so, so
inadequately that its funding was refused.  Actually that was a NY based study.
In NYC during 9/11 the NY State Office of Alcohol and Substance Abuse Services
indicated to all programs that this was an emergency and they should dose any
patient whether from their clinic or not who showed up.  Most clinics did this
based on information provided by patients.  I doubt this would happen
anywhere except in NY.

Howard

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From: “Randy Hencken” <randyhencken@hotmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] changing subject line
Date: July 15, 2004 at 11:53:12 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi everybody,

Sure would be great if all of those who posted here would change the phrase in the *subject* line when the subject changes.  With so much going on on this list it would help us to sort through the posts.

Thanks.
Randy

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today – it’s FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?
Date: July 15, 2004 at 11:44:42 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/15/2004 10:30:01 AM Central Daylight Time, vesch69@yahoo.com writes:
Preston,
why is it that when i send a message to this line i
always get it right back tomyself?

I am not Preston but I can answer. You are a member of the list. The message you send goes out to all members, you included!
Make sense?
Callie

From: “Mark Corcoran” <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?
Date: July 15, 2004 at 11:38:04 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

u really think if emergency rooms are filled with casualty patients that they’d care about your meth? They give you the run around as they always do to people like us. The Black out last summer in NYC was a perfect example. I waited three hours on line. What a terrible way to live. Just my opinion. I can’t wait!
—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 11:21 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?

In a message dated 7/15/2004 7:40:11 AM Central Daylight Time, Sapphirestardus@aol.com writes:
What if there is a real bad situation where I couldn’t get my shit? What the hell would I do? AND, you are right that in the past it was just a theoretical situation. Now it is a theoretical possibility. I asked my clinic about this and their answer was someone would open the clinic and if that didn’t happen, I could go to the ER of any hospital. Supposedly this has already been coordinated since 9/11. All of us know that is utter BULLSHIT!

Our clinic in Nashville has the Emergency Procedure hung on the wall of the clinic.
They put it up after 9/11.
If I remember correctly too, Howard was working on something like this. Was you Howard, or did I dream it?
Callie

From: marcus israel <vesch69@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?
Date: July 15, 2004 at 11:29:09 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston,
why is it that when i send a message to this line i
always get it right back tomyself? It makes me wonder
as to whether or not anyone other than myself has read
it? do you understand?  A simple reply will verify my
concern..
other than that,
thanx for the official welcome,’snice…

Have you made a certain date and place for your
treatment?  I have the date set (or so it seems),
still working on the right place,however-and not much
time left to get it together,yet i trust ( know, even)
that it it will…

I almost feel as if my life right nowis a waiting
game..for other reasons too..
But all is well, more orless
One thingsfor sure, things aint’ what they used to be
and that’sgood-still, so much left undone-at least for
me, man
Marcus

— Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
BTW all,
I’d like to take the opportunity to publicy
welcome Marcus to this list,
as he and I go way back now, about a decade really
when I stop to think
about it.
I was very happy to hear from Marcus, and I’m
very happy he is here and
making waves, nice waves too btw.
;-))
Seriously, I have yet to really come across any
of my old using and
running friends online, so when one suddenly
appears, all clear eyed and
bushy tailed, it gave me a great big smile.
Anyway, to address your message Marcus, yes, I
too am hoping my many,
many past psychedelic experiences have primed me at
least a little bit.
And while I might be nervous about ibogaine, I’m
in no way “deterred.”
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “marcus israel” <vesch69@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 12:44 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?

Preston,
while i’ve had a couple people tell me that the
ibogaine experience “can” be scary, it surely has
nor
deterred me ain any way at all, i for one am more
frightened at the prospect of my life remaining as
it
is presently-thoroughly strung out on shit,
y’know- i
wholly welcome the challenge too, fear, as we
know,
can be a prime motivator in lasting positive
change,
no?
also, i’m sure that our prior experience with
various
psychedilics has more4 than primed us for what
lies
ahead-just a hunch, man
Marcus I.-

— Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
The first time I experienced ibogaine I was so
scared that I told
myself I’d never do it again and just wanted to
make
it through alive.  I
felt dissapointed after wards and felt like I
wasted
my chance by panicing.
My subsequent experiences proved more succesfull
though.<

With a chance to do the same looming before me,
I am
finding my palms
sweating terribly when I think about going
through
an ibogaine session. I
don’t mind admitting I’m scared to death of
doing
it.
What about it was so frightening Luke?
Am I setting myself up before hand by
thinking
this way, feeling such
fright and nerves beforehand? Will these kinds
of
messages influence my
“trip” as it were? If I keep hearing/reading
about
how “scary” the whole
ibogaine session is, will it then come back to
me
just before the ibogaine
takes effect and ruin my session? I mean, I’d
like
some reassurance rather
than mainly scare stories only please.
Afterwards
sounds ok (except in this
particular case) but the actual “during” sounds
like
hell. Do I really want
to do this to myself? Will my long drug taking
experience help me bear it or
is it so alien and so different from everything
else
I’ve ever ingested that
there’s no way to prepare beforehand?
Another question- what about asthma? I keep
thinking about how sometimes
when I’ve done mushrooms or even more so LSD, my
breathing can be very
affected, necessitating my using my inhaler
during
the trip. Is it possible
to do that during an ibogaine session? As noted
earlier, I’ve drastically
cut back on my smoking, and am trying to further
cut
it back before going
through a session, but still do smoke some. Is
it
advisable to fully quit
beforehand?
Anyway, I’d just like to hear/read something
from someone who found
themselves not scared out of their wits on
ibogaine
please, someone who can
tell me, “hey, yer gonna be fine, don’t sweat it
so
much” please. Are there
any tips for not panicing? Any tips for relaxing
and
flowing with it rather
than shitting my pants in trepidation?
Thanks kindly.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Luke Christoffersen”
<lchristoffersen@hotmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 10:07 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?

HI Julian,
I’m ok, haven;t been online much.  I
did
my ibogaine treatment in
Italy, it cost me $2000 for 2 treatments.
There’s
a list of of places on
www.ibogaine.co.uk.   10-15K sounds like an
awfull
lot.  It took several
treatments for me to get where I wanted to be.
I
might have been a slow
learner when it comes to sorting out my life
though. It has been a fairly
rough time over the last 2 years but things
seem
to be changing for the
better.  At least I’m not drinking and saving
some
money for other things.

The first time I experienced ibogaine I
was
so scared that I told
myself I’d never do it again and just wanted
to
make it through alive.  I
felt dissapointed after wards and felt like I
wasted my chance by
panicing.
My subsequent experiences proved more
succesfull
though.

Luke

Hey Man, how are you? I don’t mean to pry,
well I
guess I do since I’m
asking
you these questions but Where did you go when
you
did Iboga/Ibogaine?
Could
you tell me about your experience and what
you
went through? I intend to
experience Iboga/Ibogaine when I get a
settlement
on my accident case
(approx. 3-6
months) but I don’t know what the best place
is
without spending 10,000

=== message truncated ===

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – Send 10MB messages!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

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From: marcus israel <vesch69@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?
Date: July 15, 2004 at 11:29:08 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston,
why is it that when i send a message to this line i
always get it right back tomyself? It makes me wonder
as to whether or not anyone other than myself has read
it? do you understand?  A simple reply will verify my
concern..
other than that,
thanx for the official welcome,’snice…

Have you made a certain date and place for your
treatment?  I have the date set (or so it seems),
still working on the right place,however-and not much
time left to get it together,yet i trust ( know, even)
that it it will…

I almost feel as if my life right nowis a waiting
game..for other reasons too..
But all is well, more orless
One thingsfor sure, things aint’ what they used to be
and that’sgood-still, so much left undone-at least for
me, man
Marcus

— Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
BTW all,
I’d like to take the opportunity to publicy
welcome Marcus to this list,
as he and I go way back now, about a decade really
when I stop to think
about it.
I was very happy to hear from Marcus, and I’m
very happy he is here and
making waves, nice waves too btw.
;-))
Seriously, I have yet to really come across any
of my old using and
running friends online, so when one suddenly
appears, all clear eyed and
bushy tailed, it gave me a great big smile.
Anyway, to address your message Marcus, yes, I
too am hoping my many,
many past psychedelic experiences have primed me at
least a little bit.
And while I might be nervous about ibogaine, I’m
in no way “deterred.”
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “marcus israel” <vesch69@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 12:44 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?

Preston,
while i’ve had a couple people tell me that the
ibogaine experience “can” be scary, it surely has
nor
deterred me ain any way at all, i for one am more
frightened at the prospect of my life remaining as
it
is presently-thoroughly strung out on shit,
y’know- i
wholly welcome the challenge too, fear, as we
know,
can be a prime motivator in lasting positive
change,
no?
also, i’m sure that our prior experience with
various
psychedilics has more4 than primed us for what
lies
ahead-just a hunch, man
Marcus I.-

— Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
The first time I experienced ibogaine I was so
scared that I told
myself I’d never do it again and just wanted to
make
it through alive.  I
felt dissapointed after wards and felt like I
wasted
my chance by panicing.
My subsequent experiences proved more succesfull
though.<

With a chance to do the same looming before me,
I am
finding my palms
sweating terribly when I think about going
through
an ibogaine session. I
don’t mind admitting I’m scared to death of
doing
it.
What about it was so frightening Luke?
Am I setting myself up before hand by
thinking
this way, feeling such
fright and nerves beforehand? Will these kinds
of
messages influence my
“trip” as it were? If I keep hearing/reading
about
how “scary” the whole
ibogaine session is, will it then come back to
me
just before the ibogaine
takes effect and ruin my session? I mean, I’d
like
some reassurance rather
than mainly scare stories only please.
Afterwards
sounds ok (except in this
particular case) but the actual “during” sounds
like
hell. Do I really want
to do this to myself? Will my long drug taking
experience help me bear it or
is it so alien and so different from everything
else
I’ve ever ingested that
there’s no way to prepare beforehand?
Another question- what about asthma? I keep
thinking about how sometimes
when I’ve done mushrooms or even more so LSD, my
breathing can be very
affected, necessitating my using my inhaler
during
the trip. Is it possible
to do that during an ibogaine session? As noted
earlier, I’ve drastically
cut back on my smoking, and am trying to further
cut
it back before going
through a session, but still do smoke some. Is
it
advisable to fully quit
beforehand?
Anyway, I’d just like to hear/read something
from someone who found
themselves not scared out of their wits on
ibogaine
please, someone who can
tell me, “hey, yer gonna be fine, don’t sweat it
so
much” please. Are there
any tips for not panicing? Any tips for relaxing
and
flowing with it rather
than shitting my pants in trepidation?
Thanks kindly.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Luke Christoffersen”
<lchristoffersen@hotmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 10:07 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?

HI Julian,
I’m ok, haven;t been online much.  I
did
my ibogaine treatment in
Italy, it cost me $2000 for 2 treatments.
There’s
a list of of places on
www.ibogaine.co.uk.   10-15K sounds like an
awfull
lot.  It took several
treatments for me to get where I wanted to be.
I
might have been a slow
learner when it comes to sorting out my life
though. It has been a fairly
rough time over the last 2 years but things
seem
to be changing for the
better.  At least I’m not drinking and saving
some
money for other things.

The first time I experienced ibogaine I
was
so scared that I told
myself I’d never do it again and just wanted
to
make it through alive.  I
felt dissapointed after wards and felt like I
wasted my chance by
panicing.
My subsequent experiences proved more
succesfull
though.

Luke

Hey Man, how are you? I don’t mean to pry,
well I
guess I do since I’m
asking
you these questions but Where did you go when
you
did Iboga/Ibogaine?
Could
you tell me about your experience and what
you
went through? I intend to
experience Iboga/Ibogaine when I get a
settlement
on my accident case
(approx. 3-6
months) but I don’t know what the best place
is
without spending 10,000

=== message truncated ===

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – Send 10MB messages!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?
Date: July 15, 2004 at 11:21:17 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/15/2004 7:40:11 AM Central Daylight Time, Sapphirestardus@aol.com writes:
What if there is a real bad situation where I couldn’t get my shit? What the hell would I do? AND, you are right that in the past it was just a theoretical situation. Now it is a theoretical possibility. I asked my clinic about this and their answer was someone would open the clinic and if that didn’t happen, I could go to the ER of any hospital. Supposedly this has already been coordinated since 9/11. All of us know that is utter BULLSHIT!

Our clinic in Nashville has the Emergency Procedure hung on the wall of the clinic.
They put it up after 9/11.
If I remember correctly too, Howard was working on something like this. Was you Howard, or did I dream it?
Callie

From: “Mark Corcoran” <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?
Date: July 15, 2004 at 9:38:18 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Julian, I’m rushing trying to get ready for work so I’ll response to all you wrote when I get to work but I wanted to make sure I cleared that last thing up. I certainly don’t think were terrible people and I wish I hadn’t written that. Its one of those things where had you heard the way it sounded in my head you would have known I wasn’t serious. But there are times that I feel were very easy on ourselves or maybe a better way to say that is were hard on ourselves when it comes to the way some of us live but when it comes to taking a real look at ourselves and doing something about our addiction, I think most of the time we can be not hard enough. So no I don’t think were bad people I think were sick people and getting honest with ourselves is a must if went want to be cured. We were not put on this earth to drink that shit in order to live. I’m not one of these people who thinks I was born an addict. I feel I made myself an addict. It was probably easier for me to become one due to my family history and how I grew up but I still made myself an addict and now with the help of ibogaine I’m going to try and reverse that.
Thanks and I’ll be in touch in a few but I wanted to clear that up.

—– Original Message —–
From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 8:40 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?

Oh yeah! Mark I forgot to ask you about your last statement. Were you being sarcastic or do you really feel we are terrible people?

From: “wachtel” <wachtel@shani.net>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Question about crack
Date: July 15, 2004 at 8:56:28 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

we have treated two crack addicts that I can remember. one user,I tell you, was a tough nut to crack. It took 4 ibogaine treatments for him to be free of his addiction. I know its a lot of Ibo and not many can stand 4 treatments in few months’ intervals. But he was determined to quite the drug that was killing him and he did the effort all the way. Today, 11 years later he is crack free and drinks plenty of alcohol (which can kill him as well), but the illigality is no longer an issue of him and he is functioning relatively well.
I would not come to the conclusion that Ibogaine is not effective for crack. another crack addict was treated in Panama, and he was a success after one treatment. SO the pic is mixed. Motivation is key and Ibogaine is a great help, even if one gets only the psychological restructuring.
Boaz wachtel
—–Original Message—–
From: UUSEAN@aol.com [mailto:UUSEAN@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 12:42 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Question about crack

In scanning the web for articles about ibogaine, I came across one where D.Mash is quoted as saying that ibogaine does not seem to help with crack cocaine urges.  Does anyone now if this is true.  I have noticed that the emphasis has been on opiate withdrawl, so I thought perhaps its is.

Sean

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?
Date: July 15, 2004 at 8:40:41 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Oh yeah! Mark I forgot to ask you about your last statement. Were you being sarcastic or do you really feel we are terrible people?

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?
Date: July 15, 2004 at 8:38:57 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Mark! You know I swear I think about the same thing re: meth. What if there is a real bad situation where I couldn’t get my shit? What the hell would I do? AND, you are right that in the past it was just a theoretical situation. Now it is a theoretical possibility. I asked my clinic about this and their answer was someone would open the clinic and if that didn’t happen, I could go to the ER of any hospital. Supposedly this has already been coordinated since 9/11. All of us know that is utter BULLSHIT! No one cares enough about our dilemma to risk safety and open the clinic. Definitely the ER would care none about our being sick from opiate withdrawal especially when there are people in there with “real” illness and injuries! It fucks my head up alot, but not enough to do something about it yet. I should be proactive and not reactive but I tell myself the odds of anything that severe occurring are remote so I needn’t worry about it. I very well could be wrong.

The other thing I wanted to say to you is it’s really weird that my family is also deathly afraid of my doing Ibogaine and yet they know absolutely nothing about it except what I have told them. My mother thinks I’ll die and my sisters just think something very negative will happen. I think their fear is that any substance that powerful (could change the brain’s chemistry in such a way to alleviate W/D) must be inherantly dangerous. My feeling about danger and risk has been greatly altered since surviving my motorcycle accident. I don’t know it just seemed starnge to me how both our families feel the same way about something they probably know very little about. Anyway…………………….

Best of life man,
Julian

From: “Hannah Clay” <spaglet@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] rootbark potency…
Date: July 15, 2004 at 6:49:04 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

oops, maybe they did say 3gs after all.  I still thought that was low.

Does anyone know about the effect of Subutex on Ibogaine yet?  I have tapered down the amount I take but at the moment don’t feel confident enough to be off it completely.  It has a long half-life, 36 hrs? Correct me if I’m wrong (again! ;-)) I’m on 8mg Sub daily aswell as 150mg Effexor A/D.  Will these cause a problem?

Hannah
—– Original Message —–
From: D H
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 4:44 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] rootbark potency…

On Wednesday, July 14, 2004, at 12:33 PM, Hannah Clay wrote:

Wow,a UK site-and it seems cheap! They say you only need 1 or 2 doses of
3mg (5 capsules) of root bark for a full detox.

this seems highly innacurate. 3mgs?

I’d say 3 Grams, minimum.

HCL opiate detox is generally 22-25mgs per kg of body weight. root bark is less potent, so even more. I’ve heard of root bark extraction(indra) doses being in the 4-6 gram range.

_.dh

I thought you needed lots
more than that. I could still afford it though. I could really do
it….but I’m scared of being ripped off! Please could you tell me if they
sound like they know what they’re talking about!

Hannah
—– Original Message —–
From: “Luke Christoffersen” <lchristoffersen@hotmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 6:20 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] rootbark potency…

Has anybody tried this UK site that sells rootbark? It seems reasonable
enough.

http://www.herb-a-list.co.uk/iboga.html

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Herbalist
Date: July 15, 2004 at 6:46:23 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Luke,     thanx for checking this out. I’m going for treatment in few months for the first time. I think it is better for me to first hand know what is up when being treated with Ibogaine before I take it to the streets I used to haunt. But I would like to know of all legal means of obtaining Ibogaine and which ones are the best. I can see in the future people treating themselves at home with Ibo if the laws don’t change here in the states. Or at least flying in to places like London or what ever and doing it in a hotel room. They will need experienced guides with them and good sources to keep the cost down. This sounds like a good one for England. Now we need a place around Toronto, London for east coast people.   Randy
From: “Luke Christoffersen” <lchristoffersen@hotmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] The Herbalist
Date: July 15, 2004 at 5:22:14 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi All,
Here’s the response I got from The Herbalist regarding the potency of their rootbark.  They don’t really know but claim that it’s strong.

Luke

Hi Luke

Unfortunetly our iboga has never been tested for percentage of alkaloids, however it is by far the strongest iboga i have ever ingested and iv’e tried from 3 different suppliers, it should contain very high concentrations of ibogaine etc.
Hope this is of some help.

The Herbalist

Luke Christoffersen <lchristoffersen@hotmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
I’m interested in your Iboga Rootbark. Would you be able to tell me what
the percentage of ibogaine alkaloids is in your product?

Thanks
Luke

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] beware be little ones
Date: July 15, 2004 at 12:12:32 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Study: Religious Activitiy Equals Less Sex, Drugs For Some TeensLawsuit:
State fired shrink for exposing abuse

http://indymedia.org.nz/otherpress/display/131/index.php

By NICOLE WEISENSEEEGAN

weisenn@phillynews.com

Dr. Stefan Kruszewski, a prominent Harrisburg psychiatrist who was hired to
root out fraud, abuse and waste within the state’s Department of Public
Welfare, was fired for doing just that, he alleges in a federal lawsuit.

During the course of his duties, Kruszewski discovered that four children and
one adult who had been prescribed potentially lethal combinations of
medications died while under state care, he said. He believes they died from drug
toxicity, but he was not permitted to review the autopsy reports, he alleges.

He also found that thousands of psychiatric patients on Medicaid and
receiving inpatient treatment in hospitals across the state were being given bizarre
combinations of drugs they did not need or were given the wrong drugs for their
conditions, he said.

In Philadelphia, employees of one facility, which he would not name but which
he recommended be shut down, were going into the community and dragging in
heroin and crack addicts, involuntarily committing them and prescribing all
sorts of anti-depressants and anti-anxiety medications they didn’t need, he said.

“I told my supervisor, ‘These medications are killing people. Something’s
wrong here,’ Then they fired me,’ ” said Kruszew-ski, 53, a Harvard Medical
School graduate, in an exclusive interview yesterday .

Kruszewski’s federal whistleblower lawsuit was filed in Harrisburg on Friday.
The defendants are: state Welfare Secretary Estelle Richman; Susan Kozak,
Kruszewski’s former supervisor; Christopher Gorton, another supervisor who no
longer works there; Columbus Medical Services LLC, the company that hired him,
and two of its executives; and pharmaceutical companies GlaxoSmithKline; Pfizer,
Inc.; Johnson & Johnson; Novartis; Astrazeneca and Eli Lilly & Co. The drugs
at issue are Paxil, Neurontin, Geodon, Risperdal, Seroquel, Topamax, Trileptal
and Zyprexa.

The lawsuit makes a number of stunning accusations against the state and the
companies, alleging that they had abused Pennsylvania’s involuntary-commitment
law, overmedicated patients, distorted statistics, violated regulations and
advisories, including Food and Drug Administration rules, and intentionally
exaggerated and misrepresented the effects of the drugs on “innocent persons,
simply to make money.”

The defendants either did not return phone calls requesting comment or said
they had not yet seen the lawsuit so they could not comment on it.

Kruszewski said he has documented all his findings.

“The evidence I have is absolutely black and white,” he said. “Copies of the
documents have been made and are in safekeeping in multiple places.” Former
state auditor general Don Bailey, Kruszewski’s attorney, also represents Allen
Jones, a former investigator for state Inspector General Donald L. Patterson,
whose agency is supposed to ferret out corruption within other state agencies.

Jones began digging into the financial link between pharmaceutical companies
and state health officials and said he soon discovered that drug companies
were influencing those officials with trips, perks, lavish meals, transportation
to and from first-class accommodations in major cities, he said. Some
officials were given $2,000 honorariums by the drug companies for speaking in their
official capacities at drug-company sponsored events, he said.

Jones’ boss pulled him off the probe but said he could continue it on his own
time. Jones was fired last month after speaking to the media about his
findings. He has two lawsuits pending against the state.

Jones said yesterday that he met Kruszewski only recently, through Bailey.

“It is very interesting that Stefan [Kruszewski] and I came upon different
tentacles of the same beast within the PA mental health system and were both
fired for trying to expose the corruption,” he said. “Meanwhile, the corrupted
officials are still in their jobs.”

Jones said he had warned the inspector general, in writing, that deaths of
innocent people were a statistical certainty.

“He refused to consider my concerns,” Jones said. “I believe the office of
inspector general and the governor himself share in the moral responsibility for
the deaths and injuries Stefan has uncovered.”

Kate Philips, Gov. Rendell’s spokeswoman, declined to comment, citing the
pending litigation. Amy Wasserleben, Inspector General Patterson’s spokeswoman,
could not be reached for comment.

Bailey, Kruszewski and Jones’ attorney said a clear pattern was emerging of
lawmakers and state officials’ allowing financial kickbacks from pharmaceutical
companies to influence their decisionmaking.

“[Jones’] supervisor told him, ‘Drug companies not only write checks to
hospitals, they write checks to politicians…They write checks to both sides of
the aisle,’ ” Bailey said, adding that the supervisor had admitted making those
comments in his deposition for one of Jones’ lawsuits.

“There’s billions and billions of dollars involved here, and we are talking
about the most insidious profiteering imaginable,” Bailey said. “If we cannot
find an honest federal prosecutor to convene a grand jury to look into some of
these things, like the deaths, then we are in a crisis.”

Kruszewski was hired on Oct. 9, 2001, by the Columbus organization in King of
Prussia to do work for the state Department of Public Welfare. He was paid
$15,000 per month. Half his job was conducting medical reviews and appeals for
the department. The other half was working as a medical-psychiatric consultant
for the department’s Bureau of Program Integrity. Its mission is to ensure
that the state’s medical-assistance program is protected from provider “fraud,
waste and abuse,” the lawsuit notes.

“I was told [by Kozak, Kruszewski’s former supervisor] never to look at the
medications in judging quality of care,” Kruszewski said. “The trouble is you
can’t do your job and ignore the medications.”

The first disturbing trend he noticed was that an overwhelming number of
psychiatric patients were being prescribed Neurontin, an anti-seizure drug, to
treat illnesses like anxiety, depression, psychosis and impotence, he said. The
FDA has not approved using that drug for mental illnesses, he said.

The more he dug, the more disturbing cases he found, he said, including that
of a mentally retarded 15-year-old girl who was being treated for being
defiant and for sexual promiscuity. She was on 11 medications, including five
anti-psychotic ones, but did not have a psychiatric disorder, he said, and was so
overmedicated she had trouble getting out of bed or standing by herself.

“I said, ‘This is more than just craziness. This is criminal,’ ” he said.
“This makes no sense. You couldn’t pay enough to get any psychiatrist in the
country to say this is reasonable medication.”

Last July 10, he brought this case and others to his supervisors, Kozak and
Gorton. They blasted him for “digging up dirt” then fired him the next day,
saying he’d verbally harassed and physically intimidated Kozak, he said.

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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] rootbark potency…
Date: July 14, 2004 at 11:44:15 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Wednesday, July 14, 2004, at 12:33 PM, Hannah Clay wrote:

Wow,a UK site-and it seems cheap!  They say you only need 1 or 2 doses of
3mg (5 capsules) of root bark for a full detox.

this seems highly innacurate.  3mgs?

I’d say 3 Grams, minimum.

HCL opiate detox is generally 22-25mgs per kg of body weight. root bark is less potent, so even more. I’ve heard of root bark extraction(indra) doses being in the 4-6 gram range.

_.dh

I thought you needed lots
more than that.  I could still afford it though.  I could really do
it….but I’m scared of being ripped off!  Please could you tell me if they
sound like they know what they’re talking about!

Hannah
—– Original Message —–
From: “Luke Christoffersen” <lchristoffersen@hotmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 6:20 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] rootbark potency…

Has anybody tried this UK site that sells rootbark?  It seems reasonable
enough.

http://www.herb-a-list.co.uk/iboga.html

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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Question about crack
Date: July 14, 2004 at 6:41:35 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In scanning the web for articles about ibogaine, I came across one where D.Mash is quoted as saying that ibogaine does not seem to help with crack cocaine urges.  Does anyone now if this is true.  I have noticed that the emphasis has been on opiate withdrawl, so I thought perhaps its is.

Sean

From: “Hannah Clay” <spaglet@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] rootbark potency…
Date: July 14, 2004 at 6:33:29 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Wow,a UK site-and it seems cheap!  They say you only need 1 or 2 doses of
3mg (5 capsules) of root bark for a full detox.  I thought you needed lots
more than that.  I could still afford it though.  I could really do
it….but I’m scared of being ripped off!  Please could you tell me if they
sound like they know what they’re talking about!

Hannah
—– Original Message —–
From: “Luke Christoffersen” <lchristoffersen@hotmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 6:20 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] rootbark potency…

Has anybody tried this UK site that sells rootbark?  It seems reasonable
enough.

http://www.herb-a-list.co.uk/iboga.html

_________________________________________________________________
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From: Hattie <epoptica@freeuk.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Herbalist
Date: July 14, 2004 at 5:04:07 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I will comment on this next week. Am in the middle of exams and can’t run a
check on these guys yet. However I know the man who runs the company personally
and so it will only take a phone call to get some more detailed information.

Will do it next week……promise.

People make all sorts of claims re iboga and alkaloid content and reality is
they are just guessing from literature unless they have had it qualified by
an independent lab. I doubt very much that the herbalist have done this but
I will confirm soon. If they haven’t then the only way to go really is test
the different products. I have found this the only way to go in the field of
ethnobotanicals because as Howard says we don’t have access to labs. Same
with shamans in traditional context…..when they find new plants growing,
or harvest from one area to the next…..knowledge comes down to experience
really.

Will report back on this matter soon……

Hattie

In a message dated 7/13/04 1:43:10 PM, CallieMimosa@aol.com writes:

<< I went to the Herbalist site and it says that some may need to  take
Ibogaine
daily like methadone. I feel sure they are talking about a very  low dose.
Will some of you experienced folk go to
_http://www.herb-a-list.co.uk/iboga.html_
(http://www.herb-a-list.co.uk/iboga.html)    read the info and then
respond? >>

My perception is there is a great deal of difference between may need to take
it and “we would like you to take it as we are selling it.  That does not
mean that some people would not like to take it every day in ultra low doses
as
an antidepressant.  Or that some persons may not take it every day for a week
after a high therapeutic dose should they feel the need to treat residual
withdrawal signs.

Their suggestion of a full dose for treating withdrawal appears to be very
low.  they suggest one or two “3 gram doses.”  At 3% three grams would be
180mg
ibogaine which is the likely percentage.  Though only an honest response from
the supplier will answer that.  The possibility that the root bark is 6% is
very unlikely as rootbark of that percentage does not often find its way into
commerce. 6% root bark would yield 360mg of ibogaine and that is not that much
in terms of treating opioid dependence though it sure is better than nothing.

But, with botanicals the reality is in the testing by some skilled shaman in
most cases as very few of us have access to laboratories to test alkaloid
content.  It would be great if Sara could check this stuff out and let us know
what she thinks.  Or anyone else with experience with Indra would also be able
to
provide a good report.  Indra could easily be anywhere from 3 to 5 times as
strong as the herb-a-list.co.uk material.

Possibly Hattie might comment as she is also quite knowledgeable.

Howard

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From: “Mark Corcoran” <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Introduce mysellf, forgot that
Date: July 14, 2004 at 5:05:12 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

JULIEN, free yourself from it. Toss the meth and if you feel you really need
it when you get home then as we all know they’ll be happy to wecome you back
to your program and happy to get you addicted again.
If your goin this far ya might as well take that last step and commit to
being free from it. I will keep a good thought for you.

—– Original Message —–
From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 3:17 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Introduce mysellf, forgot th

In a message dated 7/14/04 11:48:01 AM, Sapphirestardus@aol.com writes:

I agree with you on this aspect of using it. I have decided to experience
Ibogaine not to get off meth but to just experience and learn. If I
happen
to want to get off meth that’s fine. If I don’t, that’s fine. It may even
be more difficult to enjoy if you set up such high standards and
expectations as
becoming drug free from using Iboga/Ibogaine. Learn what you can from
your
experience and then just go from there.

Julian,

Just remember that if you take ibogaine and decide to continue with
methadone
you will most likely need less methadone than you did pre-ibogaine.  If
you
will be using takehome doses of methadone I suggest you start at 1/4 of
your
pre-ibogaine dose.  If you need more wait at least 4 hours before you take
more
as this is the recommended time period for dose analysis for methadone
effect.

As for everything else, bon voyage.

Howard

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From: “Mark Corcoran” <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?
Date: July 14, 2004 at 4:12:59 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Well the first plan was to do it right here in NYC. There is a group here right now that are doing 50 people at cost. 400 bucks. I met with them and they were extremely helpful and encouraging. Then I talked to my family and came clean with them and they were very fearful not just of the ibo. but of walking off the 100 mils SO they asked me if they lent me the money would I be willing to do it in a safer or more controlled environment and I obviously jumped at it. Not to mention the idea of being out of the country 3000 miles away vs. in my apartment 20 block from Harlem or where if things got tough the “solution” is only a phone call away… so I decided it would be best to take the opportunity to go to Mexico (The Ibogaine Association) Anyway being Mr. Instant Gratification himself as well I don’t know how long I might have to wait for this thing to happen here in the city and I could be waiting as long as a month so instead I’m leaving on the 25th (Next Sunday) nonstop LaGuardia to San Diego with only one bottle in my pocket! AHHHH! I’m not going to lie I’m terrified when I think about it in those terms but I’m trusting in the hundreds of people who were in my situation that have been successful and I’m quite sure that I want it every bit as much as they did. And I have to believe if I roll with that I’ll be successful.
Also, my best friend who died a year ago as of the 28th from cardiac arrest (which is oddly enough a time when I will be in the midst of my experience) anyway about 8 months before he died he was remanded to a treatment center called Narcanon (sp?) by the NYC courts. Anyway this place is somewhere in the midwest and he too was on 100 mils and so he told them that he would need to be detoxed before he went out there. Anyway they told him that they had a detox center of there own and to come right out. When he got there looking for the detox it went something like “there’s your bed, there’s the bathroom, go detox!” So he freaked but he realized that he was stuck a million miles away from home and was already too sick to fly so he just did it. Kicked just like that, on 100 mils and  at least another bundle on top of that. The way he described it sent chills down my spine- worst experience imaginable but he was home in 6 months and healthier than I had ever seen him before. You’d think with all the hell he went through he would have learned or at least swore of meth forever but within a month or two of being back in this city he was right back to his bundles and 100 mils a day. He ended up getting endocarditis and had to have open heart surgery because all 4 arteries were clogged. He went through this incredibly invasive surgery and they told him “your heart is not like a normal 30 year old heart and if you do any more speedballs you’ll die” We all told him. Three weeks out of the hospital still barely able to walk he died shooting coke in a Starbucks bathroom two blocks from my house.  Humm, I’m not even sure where I was going with that. Oh yeah, now I remember… drugs kill. No seriously I got kinda sidetracked but what I was trying to say is that seeing Rob come back after walking off that 100 without a thing was inspirational, I knew it could be done. Because when I’m alone with my own thoughts I have my doubts.
I live in Terrorist target number 1 and I was three block away from W.T.C. when everything happened and was here in the days after and they shut the city down. No bridge traffic, no trains in or out and we all know what happened with air travel. I couldn’t help but think when that was going on “what would I do if I was out of the city last night even right on the other side of the bridge???” I’d be dead sick that’s what would have happened. And in these times you think what if something happened that was way worse which I hate to say is a matter of when and not if. Something like bio where no one could leave there house or nuke where everyone had to evacuate. I’d be fucked. And maybe 10 years ago it would be flight of fancy but now its a reality and do you think the nurses at the program or the cop man is goin to work that day? Okay I’m getting ahead of myself but thats the kinda shit that goes through my mind.
So I read the post that said something to the effect “if I get off the meth great, but I’m not going to put pressure on myself” well for me there is no other alternative. I have to get off of this shit for once and for all. I will not allow myself to ever be in this situation again or at least I am determined to do everything it takes during the experience and after to insure that I don’t waste this precious gift I’ve been given.
Good luck to all of you. And remember were not people with a terrible disease were just terrible people. ;o)

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 12:39:56 EDT

Good Morning Mark. Where did you decide to experience Iboga/Ibogaine? I’m
trying to learn about as many places as possible to see what’s the best for my
situation.
Thanks for
your info and I wish you all the very best in your experience. You know it’s
going to be fantastic!

Julian

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From: Chris Jenks <jenkster@resonance.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Jenks article
Date: July 14, 2004 at 4:11:07 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

It’s lucky I caught this posting – I haven’t been keeping up with the
list at all. The extraction paper had two goals – to provide a low tech
way to extract iboga alkaloids from T. iboga root and isolate the ibogaine
itself, and to do the same for voacanga africana bark and convert the
voacangine into ibogaine. The ibogaine extraction works wonderfully well,
and the alkaloid extraction from voacanga worked equally well.
Unfortunately, the batch of voacanga I was working with contained very
little voacangine – it had plenty of alkaloid content, but the alkaloids
were not voacangine. Since Goutarel reported in his patent that there was
lots of voacangine in the voacanga bark that he extracted, that led me to
speculate that the amount of voacangine in the bark is highly variable. I
don’t remember if I described my attempted conversion of voacanga
alkaloids into ibogaine in the paper, but it is a simple process using
acid, base and heat, and the process is well described in Goutarel’s
patent. It wouldn’t take much equipment or training to perform the
conversion.

Yours,

Chris

On Sat, 10 Jul 2004, Vector Vector wrote:

Your right. I don’t know what I’m talking about with chemistry either.
Jenks is here and has posted before, maybe after seeing his name 5
times in the title of messages he’ll reply 😉

.:vector:.

— Nowwarat@aol.com wrote:

In the Jenks article July 31 2001 I don’t see a reference to voacanga

not being suitable to convert to ibogaine.On the contrary , he
appears
to be hopeful the find an inexpensive way for researchers and health
providers to find it.

Nowwarat

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From: “Mark Corcoran” <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?
Date: July 14, 2004 at 4:08:32 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Well the first plan was to do it right here in NYC. There is a group here right now that are doing 50 people at cost. 400 bucks. I met with them and they were extremely helpful and encouraging. Then I talked to my family and came clean with them and they were very fearful not just of the ibo. but of walking off the 100 mils SO they asked me if they lent me the money would I be willing to do it in a safer or more controlled environment and I obviously jumped at it. Not to mention the idea of being out of the country 3000 miles away vs. in my apartment 20 block from Harlem or where if things got tough the “solution” is only a phone call away… so I decided it would be best to take the opportunity to go to Mexico (The Ibogaine Association) Anyway being Mr. Instant Gratification himself as well I don’t know how long I might have to wait for this thing to happen here in the city and I could be waiting as long as a month so instead I’m leaving on the 25th (Next Sunday) nonstop LaGuardia to San Diego with only one bottle in my pocket! AHHHH! I’m not going to lie I’m terrified when I think about it in those terms but I’m trusting in the hundreds of people who were in my situation that have been successful and I’m quite sure that I want it every bit as much as they did. And I have to believe if I roll with that I’ll be successful.
Also, my best friend who died a year ago as of the 28th from cardiac arrest (which is oddly enough a time when I will be in the midst of my experience) anyway about 8 months before he died he was remanded to a treatment center called Narcanon (sp?) by the NYC courts. Anyway this place is somewhere in the midwest and he too was on 100 mils and so he told them that he would need to be detoxed before he went out there. Anyway they told him that they had a detox center of there own and to come right out. When he got there looking for the detox it went something like “there’s your bed, there’s the bathroom, go detox!” So he freaked but he realized that he was stuck a million miles away from home and was already too sick to fly so he just did it. Kicked just like that, on 100 mils and  at least another bundle on top of that. The way he described it sent chills down my spine- worst experience imaginable but he was home in 6 months and healthier than I had ever seen him before. You’d think with all the hell he went through he would have learned or at least swore of meth forever but within a month or two of being back in this city he was right back to his bundles and 100 mils a day. He ended up getting endocarditis and had to have open heart surgery because all 4 arteries were clogged. He went through this incredibly invasive surgery and they told him “your heart is not like a normal 30 year old heart and if you do any more speedballs you’ll die” We all told him. Three weeks out of the hospital still barely able to walk he died shooting coke in a Starbucks bathroom two blocks from my house.  Humm, I’m not even sure where I was going with that. Oh yeah, now I remember… drugs kill. No seriously I got kinda sidetracked but what I was trying to say is that seeing Rob come back after walking off that 100 without a thing was inspirational, I knew it could be done. Because when I’m alone with my own thoughts I have my doubts.
I live in Terrorist target number 1 and I was three block away from W.T.C. when everything happened and was here in the days after and they shut the city down. No bridge traffic, no trains in or out and we all know what happened with air travel. I couldn’t help but think when that was going on “what would I do if I was out of the city last night even right on the other side of the bridge???” I’d be dead sick that’s what would have happened. And in these times you think what if something happened that was way worse which I hate to say is a matter of when and not if. Something like bio where no one could leave there house or nuke where everyone had to evacuate. I’d be fucked. And maybe 10 years ago it would be flight of fancy but now its a reality and do you think the nurses at the program or the cop man is goin to work that day? Okay I’m getting ahead of myself but thats the kinda shit that goes through my mind.
So I read the post that said something to the effect “if I get off the meth great, but I’m not going to put pressure on myself” well for me there is no other alternative. I have to get off of this shit for once and for all. I will not allow myself to ever be in this situation again or at least I am determined to do everything it takes during the experience and after to insure that I don’t waste this precious gift I’ve been given.
Good luck to all of you. And remember were not people with a terrible disease were just terrible people. ;o)

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 12:39:56 EDT

Good Morning Mark. Where did you decide to experience Iboga/Ibogaine? I’m
trying to learn about as many places as possible to see what’s the best for my
situation.
Thanks for
your info and I wish you all the very best in your experience. You know it’s
going to be fantastic!

Julian

_________________________________________________________________
Check out the latest news, polls and tools in the MSN 2004 Election Guide! http://special.msn.com/msn/election2004.armx

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From: “Mark Corcoran” <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?
Date: July 14, 2004 at 4:08:07 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Well the first plan was to do it right here in NYC. There is a group here right now that are doing 50 people at cost. 400 bucks. I met with them and they were extremely helpful and encouraging. Then I talked to my family and came clean with them and they were very fearful not just of the ibo. but of walking off the 100 mils SO they asked me if they lent me the money would I be willing to do it in a safer or more controlled environment and I obviously jumped at it. Not to mention the idea of being out of the country 3000 miles away vs. in my apartment 20 block from Harlem or where if things got tough the “solution” is only a phone call away… so I decided it would be best to take the opportunity to go to Mexico (The Ibogaine Association) Anyway being Mr. Instant Gratification himself as well I don’t know how long I might have to wait for this thing to happen here in the city and I could be waiting as long as a month so instead I’m leaving on the 25th (Next Sunday) nonstop LaGuardia to San Diego with only one bottle in my pocket! AHHHH! I’m not going to lie I’m terrified when I think about it in those terms but I’m trusting in the hundreds of people who were in my situation that have been successful and I’m quite sure that I want it every bit as much as they did. And I have to believe if I roll with that I’ll be successful.
Also, my best friend who died a year ago as of the 28th from cardiac arrest (which is oddly enough a time when I will be in the midst of my experience) anyway about 8 months before he died he was remanded to a treatment center called Narcanon (sp?) by the NYC courts. Anyway this place is somewhere in the midwest and he too was on 100 mils and so he told them that he would need to be detoxed before he went out there. Anyway they told him that they had a detox center of there own and to come right out. When he got there looking for the detox it went something like “there’s your bed, there’s the bathroom, go detox!” So he freaked but he realized that he was stuck a million miles away from home and was already too sick to fly so he just did it. Kicked just like that, on 100 mils and  at least another bundle on top of that. The way he described it sent chills down my spine- worst experience imaginable but he was home in 6 months and healthier than I had ever seen him before. You’d think with all the hell he went through he would have learned or at least swore of meth forever but within a month or two of being back in this city he was right back to his bundles and 100 mils a day. He ended up getting endocarditis and had to have open heart surgery because all 4 arteries were clogged. He went through this incredibly invasive surgery and they told him “your heart is not like a normal 30 year old heart and if you do any more speedballs you’ll die” We all told him. Three weeks out of the hospital still barely able to walk he died shooting coke in a Starbucks bathroom two blocks from my house.  Humm, I’m not even sure where I was going with that. Oh yeah, now I remember… drugs kill. No seriously I got kinda sidetracked but what I was trying to say is that seeing Rob come back after walking off that 100 without a thing was inspirational, I knew it could be done. Because when I’m alone with my own thoughts I have my doubts.
I live in Terrorist target number 1 and I was three block away from W.T.C. when everything happened and was here in the days after and they shut the city down. No bridge traffic, no trains in or out and we all know what happened with air travel. I couldn’t help but think when that was going on “what would I do if I was out of the city last night even right on the other side of the bridge???” I’d be dead sick that’s what would have happened. And in these times you think what if something happened that was way worse which I hate to say is a matter of when and not if. Something like bio where no one could leave there house or nuke where everyone had to evacuate. I’d be fucked. And maybe 10 years ago it would be flight of fancy but now its a reality and do you think the nurses at the program or the cop man is goin to work that day? Okay I’m getting ahead of myself but thats the kinda shit that goes through my mind.
So I read the post that said something to the effect “if I get off the meth great, but I’m not going to put pressure on myself” well for me there is no other alternative. I have to get off of this shit for once and for all. I will not allow myself to ever be in this situation again or at least I am determined to do everything it takes during the experience and after to insure that I don’t waste this precious gift I’ve been given.
Good luck to all of you. And remember were not people with a terrible disease were just terrible people. ;o)

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 12:39:56 EDT

Good Morning Mark. Where did you decide to experience Iboga/Ibogaine? I’m
trying to learn about as many places as possible to see what’s the best for my
situation.
Thanks for
your info and I wish you all the very best in your experience. You know it’s
going to be fantastic!

Julian

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Life Events gives you the tips and tools to handle the turning points in your life. http://lifeevents.msn.com

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From: iboga@ziplip.com <iboga@ziplip.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] *Julian*rootbark potency…
Date: July 14, 2004 at 3:46:10 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Julian,
Contact Eric as soon as you can, just FYI.
Eric Taub
phone : 1-888-243-4793 (toll-free)
e-mail : ibeginagain@aol.com
Dr. Karl Naeher MA.DC.
e-mail: ibo_ka@yahoo.com
www.ibogainetreatment.com
Take Care,
Jason
—– Original Message —–
From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: 14 Jul 04, 10:09 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] rootbark potency…
Good Morning Mark! I can definitely make it to NY. I live on the island (Rockville Centre) at the moment, but will be moving back to the city (Manhattan-62nd st-2nd ave.) in the near future. Let me know what’s up man.
Regards,
Julian

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Introduce mysellf, forgot that
Date: July 14, 2004 at 3:17:27 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/14/04 11:48:01 AM, Sapphirestardus@aol.com writes:

I agree with you on this aspect of using it. I have decided to experience
Ibogaine not to get off meth but to just experience and learn. If I happen
to want to get off meth that’s fine. If I don’t, that’s fine. It may even
be more difficult to enjoy if you set up such high standards and
expectations as
becoming drug free from using Iboga/Ibogaine. Learn what you can from your
experience and then just go from there.

Julian,

Just remember that if you take ibogaine and decide to continue with methadone
you will most likely need less methadone than you did pre-ibogaine.  If you
will be using takehome doses of methadone I suggest you start at 1/4 of your
pre-ibogaine dose.  If you need more wait at least 4 hours before you take more
as this is the recommended time period for dose analysis for methadone effect.

As for everything else, bon voyage.

Howard

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?
Date: July 14, 2004 at 3:34:33 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks Howard.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 10:27 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?

In a message dated 7/14/04 7:03:32 AM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

<<  Anyway, to address your message Marcus, yes, I too am hoping my many,

many past psychedelic experiences have primed me at least a little bit.

And while I might be nervous about ibogaine, I’m in no way “deterred.”

Preston,

While prior experience with psychedelics will certainly do not harm I view
ibogaine as so much safer from a psychaitric/fear perspective than
lsd-like
drugs that I don’t think you little to worry about on that issue.  The
hardest
part of ibogaine is day two when everything interesting has stopped but,
you are
still running on ibogaine residual stimulation.  What you are waiting for
is
to get some sleep and wake up after which you will hopefully notice the
near
miraculous postibogaine effects that are reported by many persons who have
been
administered ibogaine.  As for day two/three exhaustion just try to live
with
it and not bust your providers chops over being tired.  In most cases your
provider will be as tired and as concerned as you.

Howard

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From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?
Date: July 14, 2004 at 12:53:13 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Luke, I didn’t feel you conveyed any negativity about your experience. In fact you only motivate me more to use it. I am so fucking psyched! Keep your words coming man.
Regards,
Julian

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Introduce mysellf, forgot that
Date: July 14, 2004 at 12:47:02 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I agree with you on this aspect of using it. I have decided to experience Ibogaine not to get off meth but to just experience and learn. If I happen to want to get off meth that’s fine. If I don’t, that’s fine. It may even be more difficult to enjoy if you set up such high standards and expectations as becoming drug free from using Iboga/Ibogaine. Learn what you can from your experience and then just go from there.
Thanks Howard,
Julian

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?
Date: July 14, 2004 at 12:39:56 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Good Morning Mark. Where did you decide to experience Iboga/Ibogaine? I’m trying to learn about as many places as possible to see what’s the best for my situation.
Thanks for your info and I wish you all the very best in your experience. You know it’s going to be fantastic!
Julian

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] rootbark potency…
Date: July 14, 2004 at 12:32:25 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Good Morning Mark! I can definitely make it to NY. I live on the island (Rockville Centre) at the moment, but will be moving back to the city (Manhattan-62nd st-2nd ave.) in the near future. Let me know what’s up man.
Regards,
Julian

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?
Date: July 14, 2004 at 12:29:58 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thank you Luke for that site. I’ll check it out. You know my basic knowledge of haullucinogens is that there is never a set experience with these substances. It is the basis for Timothy Leary’s belief in set and setting re: LSD and other substances. Though there are certain common effects with these drugs, what makes them so fascinating is the fact that the same dose of the same substance will manifest different experiences in each individual due to “set” (the individual mind) and “setting” (the individual environment). Fear can be paralyzing and I’m not saying I want to feel this the entire experience but I’ll tell you, I really am looking forward to experiencing whatever comes my way. I remember when I did acid (back in the sixties, early seventies) I was able to manipulate my experience a fair degree. There were times when I lost it for a while but I always thought that must be what’s inside me if that’s what is coming out! I don’t know exactly what to tell you except try very hard to just go with the experience. I don’t know Iboga/Ibogaine but if it is somewhat similiar to other psychedelics, no part of it lasts forever. It should keep changing, morphing with new visuals and auditories constantly manifesting. I hope I’ve helped a little or alot.

Keep writing man’
Julian

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?
Date: July 14, 2004 at 12:20:28 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/14/2004 2:57:31 AM Central Daylight Time, ryan.poole@ghpct.nhs.uk writes:
how do i de-register??

To subscribe to the list, send a message to:
ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com
I guess you are talking about getting back on list? If so, here you go. If not, just disregard this intrusion!
Callie

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] attn ibogaine providers
Date: July 14, 2004 at 11:36:32 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

To ibogaine providers:

Pursuant to the text quoted below from the Addict-L list, while it may be
some time before you are receiving justice system referred subjects, it may be
valuable to indicate in your informed consent form that treatment can, itself,
be damaging–especially to future change efforts if a client fails!  This
should be discussed with the subjects who will be treated with ibogaine and they
should be made aware that results may not be permanent and that not reaching
their long terms goals with initial ibogaine treatment(s) should not be viewed as
discouraging as to future possibilities with ibogaine or other forms of
treatment/ritual/therapy.

Howard

Yes, this is a new and startling concept–especially to treatment providers.
I am currently reviewed grant applications for SAMHSA and find over and
over again that there are problems with the Informed Consent procedures
and discussions of potential risks with clients. Where the clients are
criminal justice referred the risks of certain aspects of the programs
can be quite significant (i.e. return to jail for a dirty urine), but
providers
seem to be oblivious to an sense that they should discuss these potential
problems with clients beforehand! Also, providers seem to be unaware that
treatment can, itself, be damaging–especially to future change efforts
if a client fails!

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From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Introduce mysellf, forgot that
Date: July 14, 2004 at 10:53:06 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every three
seconds… Mark Corcoran
yuck. K although  a little bit like like trippy dope is so chemicaly it
just
makes you feel so nasty after a while. I used to mix it with dope and a
little bit of water ugh I get dizzy just thinkign about it. Not natural
and
pure like methadone or stepped on street dope. No but seriously I do
remember a time where before breckfest I was in a K hole.

ummm… methadone isn’t natural… =)

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From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Introduce mysellf, forgot that
Date: July 14, 2004 at 10:45:25 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Callie scribbled >Ketamine is one drug I have not tried. I would probably
like it . <

Yeah, I REALLY liked it the one time I really, really did it.

mmmmm…. i only did ketamine twice, but oh was it tasty…. =)

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears? again
Date: July 14, 2004 at 10:43:21 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/14/04 7:03:32 AM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

Anyway, to address your message Marcus, yes, I too am hoping my many,
many past psychedelic experiences have primed me at least a little bit.
And while I might be nervous about ibogaine, I’m in no way “deterred.”

Lets try this again for the sake of the english language.

While prior experience with psychedelics will certainly do no harm I view
ibogaine as much safer from a psychaitric/fear perspective than lsd-like
drugs that I think you have little to worry about on that issue.  The hardest
part of ibogaine is day two/three when everything interesting has stopped
but, you are
still running on ibogaine residual stimulation.  What you are waiting for is
to get some sleep and wake up after which you will hopefully notice the near
miraculous postibogaine effects that are reported by many persons who have
been
administered ibogaine.  As for day two/three exhaustion just try to live with
it and not bust your providers chops over being tired.  In most cases your
provider will be as tired and as concerned as you.

Of course some of you may be best case scenario responders and fully recover
within 24 hours.  Don’t count on it!

Hope that makes more sense than my first attempt at posting this information.

Howard

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?
Date: July 14, 2004 at 10:27:41 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/14/04 7:03:32 AM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

<<  Anyway, to address your message Marcus, yes, I too am hoping my many,

many past psychedelic experiences have primed me at least a little bit.

And while I might be nervous about ibogaine, I’m in no way “deterred.” >>

Preston,

While prior experience with psychedelics will certainly do not harm I view
ibogaine as so much safer from a psychaitric/fear perspective than lsd-like
drugs that I don’t think you little to worry about on that issue.  The hardest
part of ibogaine is day two when everything interesting has stopped but, you are
still running on ibogaine residual stimulation.  What you are waiting for is
to get some sleep and wake up after which you will hopefully notice the near
miraculous postibogaine effects that are reported by many persons who have been
administered ibogaine.  As for day two/three exhaustion just try to live with
it and not bust your providers chops over being tired.  In most cases your
provider will be as tired and as concerned as you.

Howard

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From: Germán DC <gcaldelas@fibertel.com.ar>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW ::: The dis-ease of christianity: MOXA
Date: July 14, 2004 at 9:50:53 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Mike

Why don´t you try some MOXIBUSTION, the old japanese technique of Moxa.

You may be benefit or not, but nothing to lose [(¡be carefull!)] and a LOT (A LOT if so) to win.
Some people do miracles with just mugwort and a few thousand years of collecting data.

regards
germándc

—– Original Message —–
From: Michael Maxey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 1:54 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW ::: The dis-ease of christianity

Fentanyl how long does it stay in your system? also Is there a way to get more of the Duragesic patch Like a Skin  Penetration enhancer?   Seeing the Duragesic goes through your skin is there a way rub a cream  like menthol  on area thehn put patch on, I am get 10mg of Fentanyl of duragesic 100ugh  I need them to work faster sometimes.  any ideas?   Mike
—– Original Message —–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 12:25 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW ::: The dis-ease of christianity

In a message dated 7/6/04 10:00:55 PM, UUSEAN@aol.com writes:

>I remember reading afew years ago that coke takes 72 hours to clear.  Has
>this been proven incorrect?

Metabolism and Detection Time in Urine: In the body cocaine is rapidly
converted to benzoylecgonine and ecgonine-methyl-ester which are eliminated in the
urine. Only a small fraction of the parent cocaine is eliminated in the urine
and its detection time following use is short compared to the cocaine
metabolites. The presence of benzoylecgonine is accepted evidence of cocaine use and
can be detected in the urine for as long as 2-5 days after use.

This is just one page but, pick your drug and check it out.

http://www.norchemlab.com/reference/drugindex.htm

Do a google.com search for urine drug screens or drug clearnece in urine
testing.

Howard

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?
Date: July 14, 2004 at 7:56:30 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

BTW all,
I’d like to take the opportunity to publicy welcome Marcus to this list,
as he and I go way back now, about a decade really when I stop to think
about it.
I was very happy to hear from Marcus, and I’m very happy he is here and
making waves, nice waves too btw.
;-))
Seriously, I have yet to really come across any of my old using and
running friends online, so when one suddenly appears, all clear eyed and
bushy tailed, it gave me a great big smile.
Anyway, to address your message Marcus, yes, I too am hoping my many,
many past psychedelic experiences have primed me at least a little bit.
And while I might be nervous about ibogaine, I’m in no way “deterred.”
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “marcus israel” <vesch69@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 12:44 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?

Preston,
while i’ve had a couple people tell me that the
ibogaine experience “can” be scary, it surely has nor
deterred me ain any way at all, i for one am more
frightened at the prospect of my life remaining as it
is presently-thoroughly strung out on shit, y’know- i
wholly welcome the challenge too, fear, as we know,
can be a prime motivator in lasting positive change,
no?
also, i’m sure that our prior experience with various
psychedilics has more4 than primed us for what lies
ahead-just a hunch, man
Marcus I.-

— Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
The first time I experienced ibogaine I was so
scared that I told
myself I’d never do it again and just wanted to make
it through alive.  I
felt dissapointed after wards and felt like I wasted
my chance by panicing.
My subsequent experiences proved more succesfull
though.<

With a chance to do the same looming before me, I am
finding my palms
sweating terribly when I think about going through
an ibogaine session. I
don’t mind admitting I’m scared to death of doing
it.
What about it was so frightening Luke?
Am I setting myself up before hand by thinking
this way, feeling such
fright and nerves beforehand? Will these kinds of
messages influence my
“trip” as it were? If I keep hearing/reading about
how “scary” the whole
ibogaine session is, will it then come back to me
just before the ibogaine
takes effect and ruin my session? I mean, I’d like
some reassurance rather
than mainly scare stories only please. Afterwards
sounds ok (except in this
particular case) but the actual “during” sounds like
hell. Do I really want
to do this to myself? Will my long drug taking
experience help me bear it or
is it so alien and so different from everything else
I’ve ever ingested that
there’s no way to prepare beforehand?
Another question- what about asthma? I keep
thinking about how sometimes
when I’ve done mushrooms or even more so LSD, my
breathing can be very
affected, necessitating my using my inhaler during
the trip. Is it possible
to do that during an ibogaine session? As noted
earlier, I’ve drastically
cut back on my smoking, and am trying to further cut
it back before going
through a session, but still do smoke some. Is it
advisable to fully quit
beforehand?
Anyway, I’d just like to hear/read something
from someone who found
themselves not scared out of their wits on ibogaine
please, someone who can
tell me, “hey, yer gonna be fine, don’t sweat it so
much” please. Are there
any tips for not panicing? Any tips for relaxing and
flowing with it rather
than shitting my pants in trepidation?
Thanks kindly.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Luke Christoffersen”
<lchristoffersen@hotmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 10:07 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?

HI Julian,
I’m ok, haven;t been online much.  I did
my ibogaine treatment in
Italy, it cost me $2000 for 2 treatments. There’s
a list of of places on
www.ibogaine.co.uk.   10-15K sounds like an awfull
lot.  It took several
treatments for me to get where I wanted to be. I
might have been a slow
learner when it comes to sorting out my life
though. It has been a fairly
rough time over the last 2 years but things seem
to be changing for the
better.  At least I’m not drinking and saving some
money for other things.

The first time I experienced ibogaine I was
so scared that I told
myself I’d never do it again and just wanted to
make it through alive.  I
felt dissapointed after wards and felt like I
wasted my chance by
panicing.
My subsequent experiences proved more succesfull
though.

Luke

Hey Man, how are you? I don’t mean to pry, well I
guess I do since I’m
asking
you these questions but Where did you go when you
did Iboga/Ibogaine?
Could
you tell me about your experience and what you
went through? I intend to
experience Iboga/Ibogaine when I get a settlement
on my accident case
(approx. 3-6
months) but I don’t know what the best place is
without spending 10,000
-15,000
dollars. Needless to say I am psyched to do it
and this site has only
served
to reinforce my desire to experience it.  Thanks
Luke.

Julian

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From: “Luke Christoffersen” <lchristoffersen@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?
Date: July 14, 2004 at 6:47:55 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I think some people read my experience as being very negative.  This wasn’t what I intended to convey. Fear was a predominant feeling in the early stages of the trip for me esspecially the first time. I don’t think it’s necessarly a negative thing but it helps to know that some fear might be experienced and that everything is ok.

In actuall fact, I don’t see any of my ibogaine treatments in a negative light.  After my first treatment I knew that I wanted to try it again.

And best wishes to those people who are going to do treatment soon.  I think it will be a great experience.
Luke

_________________________________________________________________
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From: “Poole Ryan \(5KF\) Gateshead PCT” <ryan.poole@ghpct.nhs.uk>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?
Date: July 14, 2004 at 3:56:04 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

how do i de-register??
—–Original Message—–
From: UUSEAN@aol.com [mailto:UUSEAN@aol.com]
Sent: 14 July 2004 01:39
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?

Thanks for your inspiring and hopeful words mcororan…addiction is slavery.  Each day free from heroin and crack is another day of freedom for me.  Glad you are getting ibogaine, and good luck on your journey.

Sean

From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Herbalist
Date: July 14, 2004 at 3:35:44 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I don’t think any of these questions ever get answered bro. I have most
of the messages that
are related to indra and HCL because I asked the question that started
the thread a long time
ago. If there is some big group of people using any of the ‘herbal ibogaine’
for anything then
nobody has ever written about it to this list or online anywhere I can
find. What’s in the
iboga.nl? I bet nobody knows the answer to it 2 years later.

The person who always had the most info about HCL and indra was Brett.

I already know hushmail is going to screw up the formatting on this I
will solve it one of these days. Java is acting up 🙁

Peace out
Curtis

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Date: March 25, 2002 11:01:51 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine and extract?
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i

On [Mon, Mar 25, 2002 at 07:55:04PM -0500], [Rop Halvor] wrote:

| Please what difference between ibogaine, extract and hcl?
|
| I order here www.iboga.nl
|
| Any recomend please email or post.
|
| Thanks

To the best of my knowledge, the materials this dude is selling are

neither extract (Indra) nor HCl. He is selling the actual root bark

although, in highly pretty, nicely printed, vitamin-style labeled
bottles.

I know exactly one anecdotal report of a guy who detoxed using it.
He
did
so by purchasing sumthin’ like 20 bottles of the materials, started

tossing the rootbark into his daily heroin intake; tapered downwards

with
the heroin/upwards with the root bark; until he was doing only
rootbark,
sumthin’ like 15 days out — and stepped off and had been clean for

sumthin’ like 2 months when I met him in London.

Nick may have more information — the dude was that headbanging,
Crowley
deck readin’ Mohawk wearing, guy who sat next to us for like 45
minutes.
I think Dana was there too. He had the Pretty Bottle with him, and
was
Radiating Joy and Happiness.

Whether what he did is common, or just Completely Fucking Crazy; who

knows. It seems to have worked for him.

Patrick

On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 15:21:41 -0700 HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 7/13/04 1:43:10 PM, CallieMimosa@aol.com writes:

<< I went to the Herbalist site and it says that some may need to
take
Ibogaine
daily like methadone. I feel sure they are talking about a very
low dose.
Will some of you experienced folk go to
_http://www.herb-a-list.co.uk/iboga.html_
(http://www.herb-a-list.co.uk/iboga.html)    read the info and then

respond? >>

My perception is there is a great deal of difference between may
need to take
it and “we would like you to take it as we are selling it.  That
does not
mean that some people would not like to take it every day in ultra
low doses as
an antidepressant.  Or that some persons may not take it every day
for a week
after a high therapeutic dose should they feel the need to treat
residual
withdrawal signs.

Their suggestion of a full dose for treating withdrawal appears
to be very
low.  they suggest one or two “3 gram doses.”  At 3% three grams
would be 180mg
ibogaine which is the likely percentage.  Though only an honest
response from
the supplier will answer that.  The possibility that the root bark
is 6% is
very unlikely as rootbark of that percentage does not often find
its way into
commerce. 6% root bark would yield 360mg of ibogaine and that is
not that much
in terms of treating opioid dependence though it sure is better
than nothing.

But, with botanicals the reality is in the testing by some skilled
shaman in
most cases as very few of us have access to laboratories to test
alkaloid
content.  It would be great if Sara could check this stuff out and
let us know
what she thinks.  Or anyone else with experience with Indra would
also be able to
provide a good report.  Indra could easily be anywhere from 3 to
5 times as
strong as the herb-a-list.co.uk material.

Possibly Hattie might comment as she is also quite knowledgeable.

Howard

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From: “Mark Corcoran” <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?
Date: July 14, 2004 at 12:47:33 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

HEY ALL VERY INTERESTING REAL PLAYER VIDEO IBOGAINE INFO AND STORIES AT
http://www.pot-tv.net/archive/archive.cgi?q=ibogaine

—– Original Message —–
From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 2:28 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?

In a message dated 7/13/04 1:25:37 PM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

<< DH wrote >It was the most peaceful feeling being in the hands of the

IbogaEntity/GreatSpirit/Whatever. It felt SAFE.

It was like, oh yeah, this is cool. wow. the visuals, the insights, the

pure thrill of being catapulted thru the cosmos while my body lay on a

floor mat somewhere in Western Europe… The wisdom, compassion,

clarity and humor of Iboga was really something to BEHOLD. And the

Iboga riddles… very clever. still figuring THOSE out.

No scary skeletons in the closet saying “boo”. Wait, actually there

were, but it was like… ahah. there you are. and now I know why.<

Ok. I think I’m going to hope for something between the above and the
“holy

shit this is scary as hell” situation, leaning more towards the above.

But fight I will not do. “Relax” and perhaps “don’t move” seems to be

the best advice yet.

Peace, >>

Enjoy…watch withdrawal melt away…be amazed.  Give us a good report.

Howard

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Introduce mysellf, forgot that
Date: July 14, 2004 at 12:39:14 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

OK by me.

Howard

In a message dated 7/13/04 10:53:20 PM, kevyn@pagancluster.org writes:

<< I don’t know if I would term it so simply and succinctly, as I see

thereis alot more depth than that.

But I hear your point.

My thought is that an addict is so attracted to such an opportunity as

the stories of Iboga, that they can grab some hope and faith. Usually

replacing  hopelessness.

I found a deep spiritual life, that is the only reason I am clean today.

I live my spirituality every moment. I know I can manifest anything I

desire.

But I remember boiling down pills, so they would last longer. Sticking

needles into veins that could not easily be seen. I don’t see those

times as small picture. They were ways I tried to contol my life, but

did not realize then it was in control of me.

I needed the belief that there was something great out there. I had only

experienced that in moments of being high. Thos times, I was free.

Just the idea of being able to achieve that freedom, without using

drugs, well I did not believe that was possible. Once i thought it could

be possible, I had somewhere to go. Then, I just had to go.

That belief can come from seeing others who have walked that path. Not a

counselor who tells you it is possible, but rather someone who has been

there and back.

The idea of ingesting a substance like Iboga for enlightenment is the

big picture, then has to be compared equally then to the prolonged

beatings and fasting performed by the Haida indians, or the trance

dancing rituals done in Brazil. The substance helps focus the intention,

but the real magic is not created from the tool, but rather the intention.

Again, I guess we are saying the same thing, just that I do not see it

as a little or big picture. Too linear for me. I see it as all one

picture, no right or wrong or big or little. They are all equally

important and at the same time, really do not matter at all.

peace

kevyn

HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 7/13/04 6:39:31 PM, CallieMimosa@aol.com writes:

<< Kevyn, Welcome! Hope you get to go the Ibogaine route. From  what I have

read

online and read of others experiences, spiritual enlightenment  is the main

reason for taking an Ibogaine journey. >>

When persons who are dependent on heroin/opoids take ibogaine I think the

main reason they are taking it is to as Patrick says, to get unsprung.  That
is,

not go through withdrawal and to not feel the need to use heroin/opioids.
For

the rest of the world it is spiritual enlightenment or self awareness.

Opioids are the little picture.  Spiritual enlightenment is the big picture.

Howard

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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Introduce mysellf, forgot that
Date: July 13, 2004 at 11:58:41 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Tuesday, July 13, 2004, at 05:14 PM, HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

Opioids are the little picture.  Spiritual enlightenment is the big picture.

“spiritual enlightenment” is the bonus prize for addicts seeking “un-sprungment”.

it can be quite surprising.

I used to lay in my dopesick depraved state of mind, most often in a ‘piss in the hole’ hotel room in the city (smoking rolled up cigarette buts, pounding useless cottons, smoking the charred remains of what once passed for a crack pipe, staring at my purple bloated ams covered with and sores, searching in vain for a forgotten sticky wrapper or dropped balloon of tar, and the subsequent inevitable 38 minute search for a semi-decent vein, vomiting green foam and feeling suicidal) and somehow I “knew” there was a naturally occurring herb that would relieve me of the suffering. I knew it. I just fucking didn’t know what it was called or where to get it.

the last thing I was thinking about was spiritual enlightenment. It was more like, get me outta here, now. fucking pleassssssse!

but spiritual enlightenment is exactly what I needed. or at least a taste of it.. cuz I certainly don’t claim to be “spiritually enlightened”. well, maybe in blips here and then. yah see, I’m still human. for now.

_.dh

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From: kevyn at the Cluster <kevyn@pagancluster.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Introduce mysellf, forgot that
Date: July 13, 2004 at 11:52:25 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I don’t know if I would term it so simply and succinctly, as I see thereis alot more depth than that.

But I hear your point.

My thought is that an addict is so attracted to such an opportunity as the stories of Iboga, that they can grab some hope and faith. Usually replacing  hopelessness.
I found a deep spiritual life, that is the only reason I am clean today. I live my spirituality every moment. I know I can manifest anything I desire.
But I remember boiling down pills, so they would last longer. Sticking needles into veins that could not easily be seen. I don’t see those times as small picture. They were ways I tried to contol my life, but did not realize then it was in control of me.
I needed the belief that there was something great out there. I had only experienced that in moments of being high. Thos times, I was free.
Just the idea of being able to achieve that freedom, without using drugs, well I did not believe that was possible. Once i thought it could be possible, I had somewhere to go. Then, I just had to go.

That belief can come from seeing others who have walked that path. Not a counselor who tells you it is possible, but rather someone who has been there and back.
The idea of ingesting a substance like Iboga for enlightenment is the big picture, then has to be compared equally then to the prolonged beatings and fasting performed by the Haida indians, or the trance dancing rituals done in Brazil. The substance helps focus the intention, but the real magic is not created from the tool, but rather the intention.

Again, I guess we are saying the same thing, just that I do not see it as a little or big picture. Too linear for me. I see it as all one picture, no right or wrong or big or little. They are all equally important and at the same time, really do not matter at all.

peace
kevyn

HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 7/13/04 6:39:31 PM, CallieMimosa@aol.com writes:

<< Kevyn, Welcome! Hope you get to go the Ibogaine route. From  what I have read online and read of others experiences, spiritual enlightenment  is the main reason for taking an Ibogaine journey. >>

When persons who are dependent on heroin/opoids take ibogaine I think the main reason they are taking it is to as Patrick says, to get unsprung.  That is, not go through withdrawal and to not feel the need to use heroin/opioids.  For the rest of the world it is spiritual enlightenment or self awareness.  Opioids are the little picture.  Spiritual enlightenment is the big picture.

Howard

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Introduce mysellf, forgot that
Date: July 13, 2004 at 11:14:52 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/13/04 6:39:31 PM, CallieMimosa@aol.com writes:

<< Kevyn, Welcome! Hope you get to go the Ibogaine route. From  what I have
read
online and read of others experiences, spiritual enlightenment  is the main
reason for taking an Ibogaine journey. >>

When persons who are dependent on heroin/opoids take ibogaine I think the
main reason they are taking it is to as Patrick says, to get unsprung.  That is,
not go through withdrawal and to not feel the need to use heroin/opioids.  For
the rest of the world it is spiritual enlightenment or self awareness.
Opioids are the little picture.  Spiritual enlightenment is the big picture.

Howard

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From: “Mark Corcoran” <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Introduce mysellf, forgot that
Date: July 13, 2004 at 10:48:34 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

yuck. K although  a little bit like like trippy dope is so chemicaly it just
makes you feel so nasty after a while. I used to mix it with dope and a
little bit of water ugh I get dizzy just thinkign about it. Not natural and
pure like methadone or stepped on street dope. No but seriously I do
remember a time where before breckfest I was in a K hole.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 10:02 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Introduce mysellf, forgot that

Callie scribbled >Ketamine is one drug I have not tried. I would probably
like it . <

Yeah, I REALLY liked it the one time I really, really did it.

older link – http://www.drugwar.com/pmagick.shtm

snip-
Kelly is thinking along the same lines though, knowing there isn’t any
more
coke. She makes a suggestion that Thomas will always remember.
“Ever done Ketamine?” She asks through her coke-clenched teeth.
“Nope, never.”
Kelly climbs off the bed and goes to her closet. Reaching up onto the
shelf,
she pulls out a small white box with printing on it.
“I got this yesterday from a friend. It’s straight from the vet’s office.”
snip-
Enjoy, if you’ve not already seen this one.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 7:38 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Introduce mysellf, forgot that

Kevyn, Welcome! Hope you get to go the Ibogaine route. From what I have
read
online and read of others experiences, spiritual enlightenment is the main
reason for taking an Ibogaine journey.
Ketamine is one drug I have not tried. I would probably like it . I did
HCG
(one of the date rape drugs) and enjoyed it. I think HCG is the name. It
has
been many years ago. I had a friend who had a chemist friend in Berkeley
CA.
We got to try all his new potions! lol!
Well, enough war story telling for me! lol!
Hope you post often. I learn at least one thing from this list everyday!
Callie

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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?
Date: July 13, 2004 at 10:35:17 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Tuesday, July 13, 2004, at 02:25 PM, Mark Corcoran wrote:

Just to know its on the horizon has me feeling so good. Healing and truth that’s exactly it!
You can’t imagine how good it feels to read these words. Thanks so much and I’ll looking forward to letting you know how it goes. I have my aftercare plans already all set up and I have been told over and over again how receptive to therapy you are which is such a huge advantage maybe the biggest advantage for me.  Any recommendation when it comes to nausea… going to the bathroom…??? Thanks again your words are inspirational.

Thank you, Mark.

Its reading posts by people like you who bring this experience full circle, for I was once where you are now, writing the sam stuff, asking the same questions.

It helps put things in perspective for me.

Bwiti blessings and…

Happy Trails!

_.dh

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Introduce mysellf, forgot that
Date: July 13, 2004 at 10:02:43 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Callie scribbled >Ketamine is one drug I have not tried. I would probably
like it . <

Yeah, I REALLY liked it the one time I really, really did it.

older link – http://www.drugwar.com/pmagick.shtm

snip-
Kelly is thinking along the same lines though, knowing there isn’t any more
coke. She makes a suggestion that Thomas will always remember.
“Ever done Ketamine?” She asks through her coke-clenched teeth.
“Nope, never.”
Kelly climbs off the bed and goes to her closet. Reaching up onto the shelf,
she pulls out a small white box with printing on it.
“I got this yesterday from a friend. It’s straight from the vet’s office.”
snip-
Enjoy, if you’ve not already seen this one.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 7:38 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Introduce mysellf, forgot that

Kevyn, Welcome! Hope you get to go the Ibogaine route. From what I have read
online and read of others experiences, spiritual enlightenment is the main
reason for taking an Ibogaine journey.
Ketamine is one drug I have not tried. I would probably like it . I did HCG
(one of the date rape drugs) and enjoyed it. I think HCG is the name. It has
been many years ago. I had a friend who had a chemist friend in Berkeley CA.
We got to try all his new potions! lol!
Well, enough war story telling for me! lol!
Hope you post often. I learn at least one thing from this list everyday!
Callie

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?
Date: July 13, 2004 at 9:30:19 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/13/2004 6:51:12 PM Central Daylight Time, mcorcoran27@hotmail.com writes:
my guide tells me I shouldn’t because its not
necessary and that its not going to matter.

TRUST your guide. Have faith….all will be well…..relax and open yourself to this experience…..be willing to do anything it takes……TRUST your guide.
I really bet you will be fine!
Do you meditate? It might be a good time to visualize your ‘journey’ and visualize yourself as an energetic, peaceful person who does NOT have to do some chemical just to function. I love visualizing myself that way!
Meditate about your free future! You are getting a chance of a lifetime! Just imagine, in 10 or 15 years when Ibogaine treatment is accepted you can be one of the pioneers…..a role model and mentor for some folks as sick as we are now!
Your future is so bright you better wear shades! (Timbuk2)
Callie

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Introduce mysellf, forgot that
Date: July 13, 2004 at 9:24:08 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/13/2004 6:47:06 PM Central Daylight Time, dave@phantom.com writes:
i wonder if you are refering to GHB?

yes!
hahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!
Callie
HCG is human gonadatrophic hormone! hahahahahahahaha!!!

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?
Date: July 13, 2004 at 8:39:28 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks for your inspiring and hopeful words mcororan…addiction is slavery.  Each day free from heroin and crack is another day of freedom for me.  Glad you are getting ibogaine, and good luck on your journey.

Sean

From: “Mark Corcoran” <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?
Date: July 13, 2004 at 8:25:15 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Word! Oh to be free from this shit… go anywhere I damn well please…. no one whose had two years of college to tell me to piss in a cup or that I can’t get a day off to do this or that because I smoked some pot and my eyes are a little bloodshot or took a valium once in a year because I couldn’t sleep. No more starting off the day on the line of the living dead with some security guard telling me to get on line or I wont be medicated. I know I’m not the only one.
Just to know its on the horizon has me feeling so good. Healing and truth that’s exactly it!
You can’t imagine how good it feels to read these words. Thanks so much and I’ll looking forward to letting you know how it goes. I have my aftercare plans already all set up and I have been told over and over again how receptive to therapy you are which is such a huge advantage maybe the biggest advantage for me.  Any recommendation when it comes to nausea… going to the bathroom…??? Thanks again your words are inspirational.
—– Original Message —–
From: D H
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 7:59 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?

yep. do-able.

there are reports of over 250mgs sucessfully coming of with ibo.

100mgs, shouldn’t be a problem.

focus on your intentions, be clear on that going into this. meditate on it, and remind yourself why you are doing this.

when i took my first dose, i made my intentions a mantra as the medicine came on… I asked for healing and the truth.

healing and the truth.

healing and the truth.

healing and the truth.

be prepared to follow through with after care plans. If you don’t have any, then make some. A good provider should have helped you map these out.

make changes for the better.

trust in yourself.

trust in iboga, it will lead the way.

be well, my brother.

_.dh

On Tuesday, July 13, 2004, at 01:49 PM, Mark Corcoran wrote:

So you think 100 is do able? I have three weeks to go so I guess I could
start coming down but my guide tells me I shouldn’t because its not
necessary and that its not going to matter. I’m so scared sometimes and
other times MOST times I am so excited I want to do it right this second. As
I said thanks for the encouragement and any jewels you can pass my way would
be appreciated.
—– Original Message —–
From: “D H” <dave@phantom.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 7:31 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?

Mark,

I was on 80mgs for 4.5 years, and tapered down to 20, then back up to
comfort zone of 40mgs right before the treatment.

people have successfully come off much more than that with Ibo without
suffering big withdrawal.

it works !!!

I didn’t exactly feel like a spring chicken immediately afterwards, but
90% of the withdrawals never surfaced.

mostly, I was just tired and needing to eat good food and good vitamins.

_.dh

On Tuesday, July 13, 2004, at 12:52 PM, Mark Corcoran wrote:

I LOVE HEARING THAT SHIT THANKS dh. … SO REASSURING. NO MORE ” I WAS
SCARED TO DEATH POSTS” Seriously I’m more scared to be sick than
anything
else. Like what do I do if in that second day I’m dead sick and it
simply
hasn’t worked. SEE NO MORE NEGATIVE POSTS. Anyone 5’10 175 on 100 mils
for
roughly 3 years please post your wonderful positive life changing
experiences. Thanks.- M.

—– Original Message —–
From: “D H” <dave@phantom.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 2:20 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?

Preston,

For me, Ibogaine was not scary at all.

I was a little concerned it “might” not work, having traveled 1/2 way
around the globe to partake. But work it did. and it was far from
scary.

It was the most peaceful feeling being in the hands of the
IbogaEntity/GreatSpirit/Whatever. It felt SAFE.

It was like, oh yeah, this is cool. wow. the visuals, the insights,
the
pure thrill of being catapulted thru the cosmos while my body lay on a
floor mat somewhere in Western Europe… The wisdom, compassion,
clarity and humor of Iboga was really something to BEHOLD. And the
Iboga riddles… very clever. still figuring THOSE out.

No scary skeletons in the closet saying “boo”. Wait, actually there
were, but it was like… ahah. there you are. and now I know why.

I was a little scared landing at the airport with 3 weeks of methadone
in my carry-on and seeing airport security with Uzi’s and German
Shepards and having them confiscate my issue… but they didn’t even
look at me.

My biggest fear was the lack of sleep afterwards, but coming off aprox
40mgs of Methadone post ibogaine… I slept a 4-5 hours each night.
instead of the dreaded 43 days of NO sleep whatsoever.

hope this helps, Bro!

_.dh

On Tuesday, July 13, 2004, at 07:55 AM, Preston Peet wrote:

Wasn’t exactly complaining about your story Luke, more just hoping
others
might have other, less scary stories they could relate.
Peace,
Preston

/
]=———————————————————————
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[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=——————————————————————–
-=[/

/
]=———————————————————————
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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?
Date: July 13, 2004 at 7:59:04 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

yep. do-able.

there are reports of over 250mgs sucessfully coming of with ibo.

100mgs, shouldn’t be a problem.

focus on your intentions, be clear on that going into this. meditate on it, and remind yourself why you are doing this.

when i took my first dose, i made my intentions a mantra as the medicine came on… I asked for healing and the truth.

healing and the truth.

healing and the truth.

healing and the truth.

be prepared to follow through with after care plans. If you don’t have any, then make some. A good provider should have helped you map these out.

make changes for the better.

trust in yourself.

trust in iboga, it will lead the way.

be well, my brother.

_.dh

On Tuesday, July 13, 2004, at 01:49 PM, Mark Corcoran wrote:

So you think 100 is do able?  I have three weeks to go so I guess I could
start coming down but my guide tells me I shouldn’t because its not
necessary and that its not going to matter. I’m so scared sometimes and
other times MOST times I am so excited I want to do it right this second. As
I said thanks for the encouragement and any jewels you can pass my way would
be appreciated.
—– Original Message —–
From: “D H” <dave@phantom.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 7:31 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?

Mark,

I was on 80mgs for 4.5 years, and tapered down to 20, then back up to
comfort zone of 40mgs right before the treatment.

people have successfully come off much more than that with Ibo without
suffering big withdrawal.

it works !!!

I didn’t exactly feel like a spring chicken immediately afterwards, but
90% of the withdrawals never surfaced.

mostly, I was just tired and needing to eat good food and good vitamins.

_.dh

On Tuesday, July 13, 2004, at 12:52 PM, Mark Corcoran wrote:

I LOVE HEARING THAT SHIT THANKS dh. … SO REASSURING. NO MORE ” I WAS
SCARED TO DEATH POSTS” Seriously I’m more scared to be sick than
anything
else. Like what do I do if in that second day I’m dead sick and it
simply
hasn’t worked. SEE NO MORE NEGATIVE POSTS. Anyone 5’10 175 on 100 mils
for
roughly 3 years please post your wonderful positive life changing
experiences. Thanks.- M.

—– Original Message —–
From: “D H” <dave@phantom.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 2:20 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?

Preston,

For me, Ibogaine was not scary at all.

I was a little concerned it “might” not work, having traveled 1/2 way
around the globe to partake. But work it did. and it was far from
scary.

It was the most peaceful feeling being in the hands of the
IbogaEntity/GreatSpirit/Whatever. It felt SAFE.

It was like, oh yeah, this is cool. wow. the visuals, the insights,
the
pure thrill of being catapulted thru the cosmos while my body lay on a
floor mat somewhere in Western Europe… The wisdom, compassion,
clarity and humor of Iboga was really something to BEHOLD. And the
Iboga riddles… very clever. still figuring THOSE out.

No scary skeletons in the closet saying “boo”. Wait, actually there
were, but it was like… ahah. there you are. and now I know why.

I was a little scared landing at the airport with 3 weeks of methadone
in my carry-on and seeing airport security with Uzi’s and German
Shepards and having them confiscate my issue… but they didn’t even
look at me.

My biggest fear was the lack of sleep afterwards, but coming off aprox
40mgs of Methadone post ibogaine… I slept a 4-5 hours each night.
instead of the dreaded 43 days of NO sleep whatsoever.

hope this helps, Bro!

_.dh

On Tuesday, July 13, 2004, at 07:55 AM, Preston Peet wrote:

Wasn’t exactly complaining about your story Luke, more just hoping
others
might have other, less scary stories they could relate.
Peace,
Preston

/
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[%]

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From: “Mark Corcoran” <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?
Date: July 13, 2004 at 7:49:57 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

So you think 100 is do able?  I have three weeks to go so I guess I could
start coming down but my guide tells me I shouldn’t because its not
necessary and that its not going to matter. I’m so scared sometimes and
other times MOST times I am so excited I want to do it right this second. As
I said thanks for the encouragement and any jewels you can pass my way would
be appreciated.
—– Original Message —–
From: “D H” <dave@phantom.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 7:31 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?

Mark,

I was on 80mgs for 4.5 years, and tapered down to 20, then back up to
comfort zone of 40mgs right before the treatment.

people have successfully come off much more than that with Ibo without
suffering big withdrawal.

it works !!!

I didn’t exactly feel like a spring chicken immediately afterwards, but
90% of the withdrawals never surfaced.

mostly, I was just tired and needing to eat good food and good vitamins.

_.dh

On Tuesday, July 13, 2004, at 12:52 PM, Mark Corcoran wrote:

I LOVE HEARING THAT SHIT THANKS dh. … SO REASSURING. NO MORE ” I WAS
SCARED TO DEATH POSTS” Seriously I’m more scared to be sick than
anything
else. Like what do I do if in that second day I’m dead sick and it
simply
hasn’t worked. SEE NO MORE NEGATIVE POSTS. Anyone 5’10 175 on 100 mils
for
roughly 3 years please post your wonderful positive life changing
experiences. Thanks.- M.

—– Original Message —–
From: “D H” <dave@phantom.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 2:20 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?

Preston,

For me, Ibogaine was not scary at all.

I was a little concerned it “might” not work, having traveled 1/2 way
around the globe to partake. But work it did. and it was far from
scary.

It was the most peaceful feeling being in the hands of the
IbogaEntity/GreatSpirit/Whatever. It felt SAFE.

It was like, oh yeah, this is cool. wow. the visuals, the insights,
the
pure thrill of being catapulted thru the cosmos while my body lay on a
floor mat somewhere in Western Europe… The wisdom, compassion,
clarity and humor of Iboga was really something to BEHOLD. And the
Iboga riddles… very clever. still figuring THOSE out.

No scary skeletons in the closet saying “boo”. Wait, actually there
were, but it was like… ahah. there you are. and now I know why.

I was a little scared landing at the airport with 3 weeks of methadone
in my carry-on and seeing airport security with Uzi’s and German
Shepards and having them confiscate my issue… but they didn’t even
look at me.

My biggest fear was the lack of sleep afterwards, but coming off aprox
40mgs of Methadone post ibogaine… I slept a 4-5 hours each night.
instead of the dreaded 43 days of NO sleep whatsoever.

hope this helps, Bro!

_.dh

On Tuesday, July 13, 2004, at 07:55 AM, Preston Peet wrote:

Wasn’t exactly complaining about your story Luke, more just hoping
others
might have other, less scary stories they could relate.
Peace,
Preston

/
]=———————————————————————
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[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=——————————————————————–
-=[/

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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Introduce mysellf, forgot that
Date: July 13, 2004 at 7:47:11 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

i wonder if you are refering to GHB?

Kevyn, Welcome! Hope you get to go the Ibogaine route. From what I have read online and read of others experiences, spiritual enlightenment is the main reason for taking an Ibogaine journey.
Ketamine is one drug I have not tried. I would probably like it . I did HCG (one of the date rape drugs) and enjoyed it. I think HCG is the name. It has been many years ago. I had a friend who had a chemist friend in Berkeley CA. We got to try all his new potions! lol!
Well, enough war story telling for me! lol!
Hope you post often. I learn at least one thing from this list everyday!
Callie

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Introduce mysellf, forgot that
Date: July 13, 2004 at 7:38:40 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Kevyn, Welcome! Hope you get to go the Ibogaine route. From what I have read online and read of others experiences, spiritual enlightenment is the main reason for taking an Ibogaine journey.
Ketamine is one drug I have not tried. I would probably like it . I did HCG (one of the date rape drugs) and enjoyed it. I think HCG is the name. It has been many years ago. I had a friend who had a chemist friend in Berkeley CA. We got to try all his new potions! lol!
Well, enough war story telling for me! lol!
Hope you post often. I learn at least one thing from this list everyday!
Callie

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?
Date: July 13, 2004 at 7:31:46 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Mark,

I was on 80mgs for 4.5 years, and tapered down to 20, then back up to comfort zone of 40mgs right before the treatment.

people have successfully come off much more than that with Ibo without suffering big withdrawal.

it works !!!

I didn’t exactly feel like a spring chicken immediately afterwards, but 90% of the withdrawals never surfaced.

mostly, I was just tired and needing to eat good food and good vitamins.

_.dh

On Tuesday, July 13, 2004, at 12:52 PM, Mark Corcoran wrote:

I LOVE HEARING THAT SHIT THANKS dh. … SO REASSURING. NO MORE ” I WAS
SCARED TO DEATH POSTS” Seriously I’m more scared to be sick than anything
else. Like what do I do if in that second day I’m dead sick and it simply
hasn’t worked. SEE NO MORE NEGATIVE POSTS. Anyone 5’10 175 on 100 mils for
roughly 3 years please post your wonderful positive life changing
experiences. Thanks.- M.

—– Original Message —–
From: “D H” <dave@phantom.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 2:20 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?

Preston,

For me, Ibogaine was not scary at all.

I was a little concerned it “might” not work, having traveled 1/2 way
around the globe to partake. But work it did. and it was far from scary.

It was the most peaceful feeling being in the hands of the
IbogaEntity/GreatSpirit/Whatever. It felt SAFE.

It was like, oh yeah, this is cool. wow. the visuals, the insights, the
pure thrill of being catapulted thru the cosmos while my body lay on a
floor mat somewhere in Western Europe… The wisdom, compassion,
clarity and humor of Iboga was really something to BEHOLD. And the
Iboga riddles… very clever. still figuring THOSE out.

No scary skeletons in the closet saying “boo”. Wait, actually there
were, but it was like… ahah. there you are. and now I know why.

I was a little scared landing at the airport with 3 weeks of methadone
in my carry-on and seeing airport security with Uzi’s and German
Shepards and having them confiscate my issue… but they didn’t even
look at me.

My biggest fear was the lack of sleep afterwards, but coming off aprox
40mgs of Methadone post ibogaine… I slept a 4-5 hours each night.
instead of the dreaded 43 days of NO sleep whatsoever.

hope this helps, Bro!

_.dh

On Tuesday, July 13, 2004, at 07:55 AM, Preston Peet wrote:

Wasn’t exactly complaining about your story Luke, more just hoping
others
might have other, less scary stories they could relate.
Peace,
Preston

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Mark Corcoran” <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?
Date: July 13, 2004 at 6:52:13 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I LOVE HEARING THAT SHIT THANKS dh. … SO REASSURING. NO MORE ” I WAS
SCARED TO DEATH POSTS” Seriously I’m more scared to be sick than anything
else. Like what do I do if in that second day I’m dead sick and it simply
hasn’t worked. SEE NO MORE NEGATIVE POSTS. Anyone 5’10 175 on 100 mils for
roughly 3 years please post your wonderful positive life changing
experiences. Thanks.- M.

—– Original Message —–
From: “D H” <dave@phantom.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 2:20 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?

Preston,

For me, Ibogaine was not scary at all.

I was a little concerned it “might” not work, having traveled 1/2 way
around the globe to partake. But work it did. and it was far from scary.

It was the most peaceful feeling being in the hands of the
IbogaEntity/GreatSpirit/Whatever. It felt SAFE.

It was like, oh yeah, this is cool. wow. the visuals, the insights, the
pure thrill of being catapulted thru the cosmos while my body lay on a
floor mat somewhere in Western Europe… The wisdom, compassion,
clarity and humor of Iboga was really something to BEHOLD. And the
Iboga riddles… very clever. still figuring THOSE out.

No scary skeletons in the closet saying “boo”. Wait, actually there
were, but it was like… ahah. there you are. and now I know why.

I was a little scared landing at the airport with 3 weeks of methadone
in my carry-on and seeing airport security with Uzi’s and German
Shepards and having them confiscate my issue… but they didn’t even
look at me.

My biggest fear was the lack of sleep afterwards, but coming off aprox
40mgs of Methadone post ibogaine… I slept a 4-5 hours each night.
instead of the dreaded 43 days of NO sleep whatsoever.

hope this helps, Bro!

_.dh

On Tuesday, July 13, 2004, at 07:55 AM, Preston Peet wrote:

Wasn’t exactly complaining about your story Luke, more just hoping
others
might have other, less scary stories they could relate.
Peace,
Preston

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Herbalist
Date: July 13, 2004 at 6:21:41 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/13/04 1:43:10 PM, CallieMimosa@aol.com writes:

<< I went to the Herbalist site and it says that some may need to  take
Ibogaine
daily like methadone. I feel sure they are talking about a very  low dose.
Will some of you experienced folk go to
_http://www.herb-a-list.co.uk/iboga.html_
(http://www.herb-a-list.co.uk/iboga.html)    read the info and then
respond? >>

My perception is there is a great deal of difference between may need to take
it and “we would like you to take it as we are selling it.  That does not
mean that some people would not like to take it every day in ultra low doses as
an antidepressant.  Or that some persons may not take it every day for a week
after a high therapeutic dose should they feel the need to treat residual
withdrawal signs.

Their suggestion of a full dose for treating withdrawal appears to be very
low.  they suggest one or two “3 gram doses.”  At 3% three grams would be 180mg
ibogaine which is the likely percentage.  Though only an honest response from
the supplier will answer that.  The possibility that the root bark is 6% is
very unlikely as rootbark of that percentage does not often find its way into
commerce. 6% root bark would yield 360mg of ibogaine and that is not that much
in terms of treating opioid dependence though it sure is better than nothing.

But, with botanicals the reality is in the testing by some skilled shaman in
most cases as very few of us have access to laboratories to test alkaloid
content.  It would be great if Sara could check this stuff out and let us know
what she thinks.  Or anyone else with experience with Indra would also be able to
provide a good report.  Indra could easily be anywhere from 3 to 5 times as
strong as the herb-a-list.co.uk material.

Possibly Hattie might comment as she is also quite knowledgeable.

Howard

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From: kevyn at the Cluster <kevyn@pagancluster.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Introduce mysellf, forgot that
Date: July 13, 2004 at 3:37:08 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I guess I forgot a few months back to ever introduce myself. I joined the list after spending some time in Vancouver and talking with those involved in the Clinic…I hope all goes well and is up and running again in the Fall.
We have been trying to help push through a clinic or some start to one in Alberta, and this list as well as those I have personally spoken to have been of great help.
My background, well I am a former addict of all kinds. I moved from drug of choice being alcohol to opiates in around 1994 when I got introduced to the wonders of percodan after having my hips crushed by a cow in New Zealand. I was studying to be a vet, and also had experimented with injecting Ketamine and Lidocane. I spent the next 3 years on a mix daily of any substance I can get, preferring either the opiate high and/or the disassociate effects of Ket.
I used a cocktail to keep withdrawl at bay, and have not yet had the opportunity to try something like Iboga, as I had no knowledge about it in those days.
I am contemplating trying it now, to better understand the process and effects, even though I have been chemical free since 1998.
I help out with addicts in my area of Alberta, focusing on working with street youth.

Our main problem in Edmonton, is Meth-Amphedamine. It is so prevelant here, but not so in most other Canadian cities. This is due to many factors, which I do not need to go into.
I have heard of the possibility of adverse reactions using Ibogaine with Meth addicts, and I know that most of the posts here referring to meth is for Methodone, but I am not talking about that.

There is also a new, for profit clinic which was set up last year in central alberta, focusing mainly on methadone treatment, and our hopes are to offer a small test of Ibogaine theropy in the future. But there are many obstacles in this province which still holds the majority belief of the moral model to addiction.

So, that is me, why I am hear, and pleased to have finally read all the of the 1500 emails I had accumulated over the past few months. I was unable to previously keep up with them as I was traveling, but now I am up to speed, so to speak.
peace
kevyn

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] The Herbalist
Date: July 13, 2004 at 2:42:21 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I went to the Herbalist site and it says that some may need to take Ibogaine daily like methadone. I feel sure they are talking about a very low dose.
Will some of you experienced folk go to http://www.herb-a-list.co.uk/iboga.html  read the info and then respond?
Sure would appreciate it.
Honestly, I only trust information that comes from Howard and Sara! I know many of you know what you are talking about and I love all the sharing and info we pass back and forth but when it gets down to brass tacks I know Howard and Sara are very knowledgeable in regard to Ibogaine.
Peace to all!
Callie

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] rootbark potency…
Date: July 13, 2004 at 2:32:40 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/13/04 12:21:02 PM, lchristoffersen@hotmail.com writes:

<< Has anybody tried this UK site that sells rootbark?  It seems reasonable
enough.

http://www.herb-a-list.co.uk/iboga.html >>

Email them and ask if they can provide you with the percent of ibogaine in
their rootbark capsules.  Let’s see if the answer is any better than
ethnogarden’s answer.

Howard

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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?
Date: July 13, 2004 at 2:31:59 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“Relax” and perhaps “don’t move” seems to be
the best advice yet.

I couldn’t agree more. Just let it happen.

one sensation i have had every time i’ve dosed is spinning and vertigo in the first 1/2 hour or so. let that happen too.

the more you resist, the stronger it becomes.

of course, some folks don’t experience those sensations at all.

but motion brings on nausea, that is for sure.

_.dh

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] *Mark* off topic personal news!!!!!
Date: July 13, 2004 at 2:29:25 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/13/04 11:38:09 AM, vesch69@yahoo.com writes:

<< from what people who’ve been through the ibogaine
experience are telling me it is of ultraimportance to
have a solid foundation in place for
“aftercare”-infact there is already in place for me a
“counselor” who works especially with people in
post-ibogaine therapy,..i also have made sure to keep
my counseling staff at my meth clinic aware that i’ll
be doing the ibogaine, but want to be able to come in
for groups, etc..of course i’m hoping so much that i
will never have to return as a meth “client”..
Marcus-

Good move on the taking advantage of group at the methadone clinic.

Howard

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?
Date: July 13, 2004 at 2:28:03 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/13/04 1:25:37 PM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

<< DH wrote >It was the most peaceful feeling being in the hands of the

IbogaEntity/GreatSpirit/Whatever. It felt SAFE.

It was like, oh yeah, this is cool. wow. the visuals, the insights, the

pure thrill of being catapulted thru the cosmos while my body lay on a

floor mat somewhere in Western Europe… The wisdom, compassion,

clarity and humor of Iboga was really something to BEHOLD. And the

Iboga riddles… very clever. still figuring THOSE out.

No scary skeletons in the closet saying “boo”. Wait, actually there

were, but it was like… ahah. there you are. and now I know why.<

Ok. I think I’m going to hope for something between the above and the “holy

shit this is scary as hell” situation, leaning more towards the above.

But fight I will not do. “Relax” and perhaps “don’t move” seems to be

the best advice yet.

Peace, >>

Enjoy…watch withdrawal melt away…be amazed.  Give us a good report.

Howard

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?
Date: July 13, 2004 at 2:25:19 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

DH wrote >It was the most peaceful feeling being in the hands of the
IbogaEntity/GreatSpirit/Whatever. It felt SAFE.

It was like, oh yeah, this is cool. wow. the visuals, the insights, the
pure thrill of being catapulted thru the cosmos while my body lay on a
floor mat somewhere in Western Europe… The wisdom, compassion,
clarity and humor of Iboga was really something to BEHOLD. And the
Iboga riddles… very clever. still figuring THOSE out.

No scary skeletons in the closet saying “boo”. Wait, actually there
were, but it was like… ahah. there you are. and now I know why.<

Ok. I think I’m going to hope for something between the above and the “holy
shit this is scary as hell” situation, leaning more towards the above.
But fight I will not do. “Relax” and perhaps “don’t move” seems to be
the best advice yet.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “D H” <dave@phantom.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 2:20 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?

Preston,

For me, Ibogaine was not scary at all.

I was a little concerned it “might” not work, having traveled 1/2 way
around the globe to partake. But work it did. and it was far from scary.

It was the most peaceful feeling being in the hands of the
IbogaEntity/GreatSpirit/Whatever. It felt SAFE.

It was like, oh yeah, this is cool. wow. the visuals, the insights, the
pure thrill of being catapulted thru the cosmos while my body lay on a
floor mat somewhere in Western Europe… The wisdom, compassion,
clarity and humor of Iboga was really something to BEHOLD. And the
Iboga riddles… very clever. still figuring THOSE out.

No scary skeletons in the closet saying “boo”. Wait, actually there
were, but it was like… ahah. there you are. and now I know why.

I was a little scared landing at the airport with 3 weeks of methadone
in my carry-on and seeing airport security with Uzi’s and German
Shepards and having them confiscate my issue… but they didn’t even
look at me.

My biggest fear was the lack of sleep afterwards, but coming off aprox
40mgs of Methadone post ibogaine… I slept a 4-5 hours each night.
instead of the dreaded 43 days of NO sleep whatsoever.

hope this helps, Bro!

_.dh

On Tuesday, July 13, 2004, at 07:55 AM, Preston Peet wrote:

Wasn’t exactly complaining about your story Luke, more just hoping
others
might have other, less scary stories they could relate.
Peace,
Preston

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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?
Date: July 13, 2004 at 2:20:02 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston,

For me, Ibogaine was not scary at all.

I was a little concerned it “might” not work, having traveled 1/2 way around the globe to partake. But work it did. and it was far from scary.

It was the most peaceful feeling being in the hands of the IbogaEntity/GreatSpirit/Whatever. It felt SAFE.

It was like, oh yeah, this is cool. wow. the visuals, the insights, the pure thrill of being catapulted thru the cosmos while my body lay on a floor mat somewhere in Western Europe… The wisdom, compassion, clarity and humor of Iboga was really something to BEHOLD. And the Iboga riddles… very clever. still figuring THOSE out.

No scary skeletons in the closet saying “boo”. Wait, actually there were, but it was like… ahah. there you are. and now I know why.

I was a little scared landing at the airport with 3 weeks of methadone in my carry-on and seeing airport security with Uzi’s and German Shepards and having them confiscate my issue… but they didn’t even look at me.

My biggest fear was the lack of sleep afterwards, but coming off aprox 40mgs of Methadone post ibogaine… I slept a 4-5 hours each night. instead of the dreaded 43 days of NO sleep whatsoever.

hope this helps, Bro!

_.dh

On Tuesday, July 13, 2004, at 07:55 AM, Preston Peet wrote:

Wasn’t exactly complaining about your story Luke, more just hoping others
might have other, less scary stories they could relate.
Peace,
Preston

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?
Date: July 13, 2004 at 1:55:05 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Perhaps
it could be benificial in allowing you to confront your demons.  I didn’t
mean to create a scare story.<

Wasn’t exactly complaining about your story Luke, more just hoping others
might have other, less scary stories they could relate.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Luke Christoffersen” <lchristoffersen@hotmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 11:14 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?

Hi Preston,
I think you’ve raised some good questions here.  I don’t know about
problems with asthma. I didn’t experience breathing problems. Perhaps
someone else has an experience they could share?

With a chance to do the same looming before me, I am finding my palms
sweating terribly when I think about going through an ibogaine session. I
don’t mind admitting I’m scared to death of doing it.
What about it was so frightening Luke?

I’m not sure what exactly causes fear was but for me it’s been present all
my sessions but it seems
to only be during the first couple of hours.  After that I seem to settle
into the experience more.

Am I setting myself up before hand by thinking this way, feeling
such
fright and nerves beforehand? Will these kinds of messages influence my
“trip” as it were? If I keep hearing/reading about how “scary” the whole
ibogaine session is, will it then come back to me just before the
ibogaine
takes effect and ruin my session? I mean, I’d like some reassurance
rather
than mainly scare stories only please. Afterwards sounds ok (except in
this
particular case) but the actual “during” sounds like hell. Do I really
want
to do this to myself? Will my long drug taking experience help me bear it
or
is it so alien and so different from everything else I’ve ever ingested
that
there’s no way to prepare beforehand?

I don’t know if this kind of thinking will ruin your session.  I went to
my
first session feeling confident about the whole thing.  It wasn’t untill
the
moment came to swallow the ibogaine that I started to feel anxious.
Perhaps
it could be benificial in allowing you to confront your demons.  I didn’t
mean to create a scare story.

Luke

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From: “Luke Christoffersen” <lchristoffersen@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] rootbark potency…
Date: July 13, 2004 at 1:20:06 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Has anybody tried this UK site that sells rootbark?  It seems reasonable enough.

http://www.herb-a-list.co.uk/iboga.html

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From: marcus israel <vesch69@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?
Date: July 13, 2004 at 12:44:57 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston,
while i’ve had a couple people tell me that the
ibogaine experience “can” be scary, it surely has nor
deterred me ain any way at all, i for one am more
frightened at the prospect of my life remaining as it
is presently-thoroughly strung out on shit, y’know- i
wholly welcome the challenge too, fear, as we know,
can be a prime motivator in lasting positive change,
no?
also, i’m sure that our prior experience with various
psychedilics has more4 than primed us for what lies
ahead-just a hunch, man
Marcus I.-

— Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
The first time I experienced ibogaine I was so
scared that I told
myself I’d never do it again and just wanted to make
it through alive.  I
felt dissapointed after wards and felt like I wasted
my chance by panicing.
My subsequent experiences proved more succesfull
though.<

With a chance to do the same looming before me, I am
finding my palms
sweating terribly when I think about going through
an ibogaine session. I
don’t mind admitting I’m scared to death of doing
it.
What about it was so frightening Luke?
Am I setting myself up before hand by thinking
this way, feeling such
fright and nerves beforehand? Will these kinds of
messages influence my
“trip” as it were? If I keep hearing/reading about
how “scary” the whole
ibogaine session is, will it then come back to me
just before the ibogaine
takes effect and ruin my session? I mean, I’d like
some reassurance rather
than mainly scare stories only please. Afterwards
sounds ok (except in this
particular case) but the actual “during” sounds like
hell. Do I really want
to do this to myself? Will my long drug taking
experience help me bear it or
is it so alien and so different from everything else
I’ve ever ingested that
there’s no way to prepare beforehand?
Another question- what about asthma? I keep
thinking about how sometimes
when I’ve done mushrooms or even more so LSD, my
breathing can be very
affected, necessitating my using my inhaler during
the trip. Is it possible
to do that during an ibogaine session? As noted
earlier, I’ve drastically
cut back on my smoking, and am trying to further cut
it back before going
through a session, but still do smoke some. Is it
advisable to fully quit
beforehand?
Anyway, I’d just like to hear/read something
from someone who found
themselves not scared out of their wits on ibogaine
please, someone who can
tell me, “hey, yer gonna be fine, don’t sweat it so
much” please. Are there
any tips for not panicing? Any tips for relaxing and
flowing with it rather
than shitting my pants in trepidation?
Thanks kindly.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Luke Christoffersen”
<lchristoffersen@hotmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 10:07 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?

HI Julian,
I’m ok, haven;t been online much.  I did
my ibogaine treatment in
Italy, it cost me $2000 for 2 treatments. There’s
a list of of places on
www.ibogaine.co.uk.   10-15K sounds like an awfull
lot.  It took several
treatments for me to get where I wanted to be. I
might have been a slow
learner when it comes to sorting out my life
though. It has been a fairly
rough time over the last 2 years but things seem
to be changing for the
better.  At least I’m not drinking and saving some
money for other things.

The first time I experienced ibogaine I was
so scared that I told
myself I’d never do it again and just wanted to
make it through alive.  I
felt dissapointed after wards and felt like I
wasted my chance by
panicing.
My subsequent experiences proved more succesfull
though.

Luke

Hey Man, how are you? I don’t mean to pry, well I
guess I do since I’m
asking
you these questions but Where did you go when you
did Iboga/Ibogaine?
Could
you tell me about your experience and what you
went through? I intend to
experience Iboga/Ibogaine when I get a settlement
on my accident case
(approx. 3-6
months) but I don’t know what the best place is
without spending 10,000
-15,000
dollars. Needless to say I am psyched to do it
and this site has only
served
to reinforce my desire to experience it.  Thanks
Luke.

Julian

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From: marcus israel <vesch69@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] *Mark* off topic personal news!!!!!
Date: July 13, 2004 at 12:37:18 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“ziplip/others-
i believe that this is the best sound advice i’ve read
in awhile here,
from what people who’ve been through the ibogaine
experience are telling me it is of ultraimportance to
have a solid foundation in place for
“aftercare”-infact there is already in place for me a
“counselor” who works especially with people in
post-ibogaine therapy,..i also have made sure to keep
my counseling staff at my meth clinic aware that i’ll
be doing the ibogaine, but want to be able to come in
for groups, etc..of course i’m hoping so much that i
will never have to return as a meth “client”..
Marcus-

— CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 7/12/2004 6:09:15 PM Central
Daylight Time,
iboga@ziplip.com writes:

On  counting the days down to treatment, I’d use the
time to set up as best
you  can a good solid aftercare program, make some
extra money, and good solid
friends who you know you can talk to without having
to pay, also, if use
methadone counselor find out if still can use
services even if not on  methadone.
I’d get as much social services contact info I could
out of  them, then I’d
look on-line to find if any services are available
that unaware  of.  Also, I
would prepare as best as possible a follow up dose
of  iboga/ine and if you
don’t need it you don’t need it.
Also, writing or  thinking about expectations for
iboga/ine treatment can
help see more clear,  i.e. if iboga/ine only takes
away half of the sick is it
still doable  etc.

Sounds like very good thought out advice!
You know, 50mgs of Methadone taken on a regular
basis will  block any rush or
high anyway. I have had people chuckle and say “Oh
yeah? Let  me get you some
of my heroin.” I haven’t done heroin since been on
Methadone but  I have
tried pharmaceuticals and didn’t feel a damn thing!
Callie

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From: “Luke Christoffersen” <lchristoffersen@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?
Date: July 13, 2004 at 11:14:39 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Preston,
I think you’ve raised some good questions here.  I don’t know about problems with asthma. I didn’t experience breathing problems. Perhaps someone else has an experience they could share?

With a chance to do the same looming before me, I am finding my palms
sweating terribly when I think about going through an ibogaine session. I
don’t mind admitting I’m scared to death of doing it.
What about it was so frightening Luke?

I’m not sure what exactly causes fear was but for me it’s been present all my sessions but it seems
to only be during the first couple of hours.  After that I seem to settle into the experience more.

Am I setting myself up before hand by thinking this way, feeling such
fright and nerves beforehand? Will these kinds of messages influence my
“trip” as it were? If I keep hearing/reading about how “scary” the whole
ibogaine session is, will it then come back to me just before the ibogaine
takes effect and ruin my session? I mean, I’d like some reassurance rather
than mainly scare stories only please. Afterwards sounds ok (except in this
particular case) but the actual “during” sounds like hell. Do I really want
to do this to myself? Will my long drug taking experience help me bear it or
is it so alien and so different from everything else I’ve ever ingested that
there’s no way to prepare beforehand?

I don’t know if this kind of thinking will ruin your session.  I went to my first session feeling confident about the whole thing.  It wasn’t untill the moment came to swallow the ibogaine that I started to feel anxious. Perhaps it could be benificial in allowing you to confront your demons.  I didn’t mean to create a scare story.

Luke

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?
Date: July 13, 2004 at 10:34:14 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The first time I experienced ibogaine I was so scared that I told
myself I’d never do it again and just wanted to make it through alive.  I
felt dissapointed after wards and felt like I wasted my chance by panicing.
My subsequent experiences proved more succesfull though.<

With a chance to do the same looming before me, I am finding my palms
sweating terribly when I think about going through an ibogaine session. I
don’t mind admitting I’m scared to death of doing it.
What about it was so frightening Luke?
Am I setting myself up before hand by thinking this way, feeling such
fright and nerves beforehand? Will these kinds of messages influence my
“trip” as it were? If I keep hearing/reading about how “scary” the whole
ibogaine session is, will it then come back to me just before the ibogaine
takes effect and ruin my session? I mean, I’d like some reassurance rather
than mainly scare stories only please. Afterwards sounds ok (except in this
particular case) but the actual “during” sounds like hell. Do I really want
to do this to myself? Will my long drug taking experience help me bear it or
is it so alien and so different from everything else I’ve ever ingested that
there’s no way to prepare beforehand?
Another question- what about asthma? I keep thinking about how sometimes
when I’ve done mushrooms or even more so LSD, my breathing can be very
affected, necessitating my using my inhaler during the trip. Is it possible
to do that during an ibogaine session? As noted earlier, I’ve drastically
cut back on my smoking, and am trying to further cut it back before going
through a session, but still do smoke some. Is it advisable to fully quit
beforehand?
Anyway, I’d just like to hear/read something from someone who found
themselves not scared out of their wits on ibogaine please, someone who can
tell me, “hey, yer gonna be fine, don’t sweat it so much” please. Are there
any tips for not panicing? Any tips for relaxing and flowing with it rather
than shitting my pants in trepidation?
Thanks kindly.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Luke Christoffersen” <lchristoffersen@hotmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 10:07 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?

HI Julian,
I’m ok, haven;t been online much.  I did my ibogaine treatment in
Italy, it cost me $2000 for 2 treatments. There’s a list of of places on
www.ibogaine.co.uk.   10-15K sounds like an awfull lot.  It took several
treatments for me to get where I wanted to be. I might have been a slow
learner when it comes to sorting out my life though. It has been a fairly
rough time over the last 2 years but things seem to be changing for the
better.  At least I’m not drinking and saving some money for other things.

The first time I experienced ibogaine I was so scared that I told
myself I’d never do it again and just wanted to make it through alive.  I
felt dissapointed after wards and felt like I wasted my chance by
panicing.
My subsequent experiences proved more succesfull though.

Luke

Hey Man, how are you? I don’t mean to pry, well I guess I do since I’m
asking
you these questions but Where did you go when you did Iboga/Ibogaine?
Could
you tell me about your experience and what you went through? I intend to
experience Iboga/Ibogaine when I get a settlement on my accident case
(approx. 3-6
months) but I don’t know what the best place is without spending 10,000
-15,000
dollars. Needless to say I am psyched to do it and this site has only
served
to reinforce my desire to experience it.  Thanks Luke.

Julian

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From: “Mark Corcoran” <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] rootbark potency…
Date: July 13, 2004 at 10:25:43 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

julien, can you make it to ny ?
—– Original Message —–
From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 1:39 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] rootbark potency…

Thanks Howard. (as usual) I don’t know if you ever listen to the radio show “Coast to Coast” via Art Bell (and George Noory) but this past weekend, Saturday night specifically, a gentleman by the name Daniel Pinchbeck was interviewed. He wrote a book called “Breaking Open The Head” which is a chronicle of his travels and his doing many different haullucinogens. There was a chapter on Iboga/Ibogaine which was extremely interesting. I wish I knew about it beforehand so I could have made everyone aware of it, but you might be interested in his book. You can find some data on the book and Pinchbeck on “coasttocoastartbell” and look at Past shows-Saturday Night-July10. Also the website “breakingopenthehead”.
Have a great day man,
Julian

From: “Luke Christoffersen” <lchristoffersen@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?
Date: July 13, 2004 at 10:07:23 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

HI Julian,
I’m ok, haven;t been online much.  I did my ibogaine treatment in Italy, it cost me $2000 for 2 treatments. There’s a list of of places on www.ibogaine.co.uk.   10-15K sounds like an awfull lot.  It took several treatments for me to get where I wanted to be. I might have been a slow learner when it comes to sorting out my life though. It has been a fairly rough time over the last 2 years but things seem to be changing for the better.  At least I’m not drinking and saving some money for other things.

The first time I experienced ibogaine I was so scared that I told myself I’d never do it again and just wanted to make it through alive.  I felt dissapointed after wards and felt like I wasted my chance by panicing. My subsequent experiences proved more succesfull though.

Luke

Hey Man, how are you? I don’t mean to pry, well I guess I do since I’m asking
you these questions but Where did you go when you did Iboga/Ibogaine? Could
you tell me about your experience and what you went through? I intend to
experience Iboga/Ibogaine when I get a settlement on my accident case (approx. 3-6
months) but I don’t know what the best place is without spending 10,000 -15,000
dollars. Needless to say I am psyched to do it and this site has only served
to reinforce my desire to experience it.  Thanks Luke.

Julian

_________________________________________________________________
STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] rootbark potency…
Date: July 13, 2004 at 9:47:26 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The point though is except for when I was dealing, I never had a thousand
bucks (and more) to spend on drugs! I had to hustle my ass off to come up
with $100.00 and it was strictly on a daily basis. Once I decided not to
pursue that lifestyle,  there was no way I was going to hustle like I did
for dope and save the money for a year. It’s just not realistic.<

Plus, there’s the whole “was the money made legally or through crime” thing
happening. I used to have a $100 to $500 a day habit shooting both cocaine
and heroin, every single day for a number of years. Now I’m lucky if I have
enough money for a pack of perfectly legal smokes every other day (note that
“every other day”- down from “2 packs every single day” only a few months
ago- yeaaaa, except I suspect it’s due to financial rather than intelligent,
healthy reasons). Coming up with $1500 for a one time treatment is
completely different. No matter what, I’m not going to go out and make that
money like I used to. No sir, no way in hell. So I too find that kind of
comment really offish when I hear it. It’s insulting and usually strikes me
as not that well thought out.
Anyway, good day all.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 1:16 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] rootbark potency…

Good Morning Jim! How are you doing? Obviously from my E-Mail, you can tell
I feel as you do. If I wasn’t going to receive any money from my accident,
it would take me a very, very long time to save $1500.00 and up. Though I
believe the experience would be better initially with the guidance from
someone, it is very difficult for most of us to save that kind of money.
Alot of people say to me “considering all the money you have spent on dope,
why not spend that money on something that will help you.” The point though
is except for when I was dealing, I never had a thousand bucks (and more) to
spend on drugs! I had to hustle my ass off to come up with $100.00 and it
was strictly on a daily basis. Once I decided not to pursue that lifestyle,
there was no way I was going to hustle like I did for dope and save the
money for a year. It’s just not realistic. The thing is it doesn’t seem
likely (unless you know somebody very well) that we can get Iboga/Ibogaine
for a reasonable cost ($100 or less) so we are in the position of figuring
out how to get the funds. For me, it’s worth it. I would not keep doing it
for a couple of grand each time but for my first two times I would. Do me a
favor, be a little patient and you just might find the money. I don’t mean
to sound so cryptic but you just never know!
Regards my
man,

Julian

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] *Mark* off topic personal news!!!!!
Date: July 13, 2004 at 9:39:45 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

And Marcus when you feel like that in the meantime smoke pot. Good luck and
I’ll look forward to hearing about your adventure.<

Good advice Mark.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Mark Corcoran” <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 9:28 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] *Mark* off topic personal news!!!!!

Okay is there a certain part that of that thinking that is solely based on
the thought of a guilt free get high but  I also know that at the Ibogaine
association in Mexico gives you 3 days of morphine because they think its
better to be using a shorter half life drug. I met with my guide tonight
and
he feels that the idea of Heroin poses more problems than solutions as
well.
But I’m on 100 mils so I’m scared to death of just coming straight off but
I’m resigning myself to the idea that its has worked for so many people
that
are in the same position or worse that I’m in not to mention they’ve been
on
it alot longer. So I guess what I’m saying is I’m giving myself over to it
now so that I am prepared when the day comes (in less than 3 weeks!!!) and
for me, giving myself over completely contradicts the thought of doing
dope.
You know what I mean? Its like how can I say that I’m serious about this
very spiritual experience if I’m willing to do MORE drugs or Switching
drugs
right before. I think people that are lucky enough to be in our situation
need to resign themselves to not using and focus instead of being free
from
all of this and preparing for the experience. Keep in touch and PLEASE let
me know if you are doing this before August 3rd. I’d love to hear about
your
experience. And I’d also like to know you didn’t die. Just kidding :o)
.sorta?
And Marcus when you feel like that in the meantime smoke pot. Good luck
and
I’ll look forward to hearing about your adventure.
—– Original Message —–
From: “marcus israel” <vesch69@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 7:51 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] *Mark* off topic personal news!!!!!

I’ve been thinking of doing the same sort of thing
myself, if for no other reason then i want to have a
satisfying shot or two prior to my treatment,.. but
then i get to thinking of the utter foolishness of
this way- that if i’ve been successfully staying away
from shooting drugs by staying on my (low dose) of
methadone, then why on Earth F-k that up by trying to
get high again-esp. when the whole point of my
impending Ibogaine treatment is to reinforce my quest
for total abstinence from hard-core, y’know?
I feel in a way that i’ll be owing it to myself to get
in a few “last licks” be-4 undergoing ibogaine, but in
reality it could very well pose several potential
troubles with the overall successs of the treatment,
right?
The (experienced) people who will be doing my
treatment have not in any way suggested to me to get
off the meth and switch to shorter-acting opiates, so
then why should i take it upon myself to do that, it
all seems like what we’re trying to do is a justified
last heroin binge, no?
w/b-Marcus

— iboga@ziplip.com,
UNEXPECTED_DATA_AFTER_ADDRESS@.SYNTAX-ERROR. wrote:

I’m interested in this question of switching to
short acting from long lasting prior to iboga/ine,
and am looking forward to hearing other input.

If it was like 30, 60 or 90 days or more prior
perhaps
switching to heroin from methadone COULD be a
‘reasonable’ idea IF clean supply.

No powders unless cut yourself, “good quality tar”
only.

I think it would be better to have someone else
administer it who will do the right thing even if
try to change original objectives to use it more
for rush instead of no sick.
Heroin will no doubt feel better the ‘done so that
may or may not trigger something.  Other dangerous
part is over doing it because sick knows might be
last chance to feel rush.

Also, I would think taking non-IV would be better
for some in keeping compulsion down as much as
possible, if a needle has to be used at least miss
on purpose. (I never thought I would say miss on
purpose lol)

Perhaps ability to consistently not take extra ‘done
with
take homes could be a sign if this is good idea.

It would suck to get arrested (felony) for black
market heroin, then have to deal with that instead
of iboga/ine treatment.

But, if after all that it still sounds like a
‘reasonable’ idea, then how often do you administer?
every 4-6 hours?
Do you buy all supply at once or go back dose after
dose?  If get sick how much of a dose level window
am allowed to increase? Or is the dose level set in
stone?

It would really suck to get a hot shot right before
iboga/ine treatment, so perhaps if you don’t already
have reliable illegal heroin connect in place could
be a factor.

But if the switch is only 3 or 4 days prior to
iboga/ine, the methadone sick has still got a while
to
clear out, so I don’t understand the point in that
situation.  Could it add to what methadone sick
already would have done?  I guess if it does it
wouldn’t last more then a few
weeks, if that.

On counting the days down to treatment, I’d use the
time to set up as best you can a good solid
after-care program, make some extra money, and good
solid friends who you know you can talk to without
having to pay, also, if use methadone counselor find
out if still can use services even if not on
methadone.
I’d get as much social services contact info I
could out of them, then I’d look on-line to find if
any services are available that unaware of.  Also, I
would prepare as best as possible a follow up dose
of iboga/ine and if you don’t need it you don’t need
it.
Also, writing or thinking about expectations for
iboga/ine treatment can help see more clear, i.e. if
iboga/ine only takes away half of the sick is it
still doable etc.

I hope you have a productive journey.

Jason
iboga.wmatrix.net

—–Original Message—–
From: CrookedEye420@aol.com
[mailto:CrookedEye420@aol.com]
Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004, 7:30 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] off topic personal
news!!!!!

I started a taper and got down to 12mgs, from
100mgs a day before I went, but
I don’t know how much it helped, however, your idea
about switching to heroin
before going to do the ibogaine is probably a good
idea and I have heard that
doing that is recommended because methadone has
such a long half-life.  I
think ibogaine works much better when your
addiction is to shorter acting
opiates.

In a message dated 7/11/2004 10:43:36 PM Eastern
Daylight Time, “Mark
Corcoran” <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com> writes:

I read an article way back when where he talks
about many overdoses and many
kicks and then I read something else about some
trip that he took to North
Africa for “sprtiual inlighenment” so I don’t
doubt it. Also if you look at
the inside cover of Ritual de lo Habitual there is
a medical cabinet with
all these different strange medicnes and right in
the middle is a bottle of
Methadone with David Navaro’s name on it. Which I
thought was so cool at the
time when I think back on it. Wow its amazing how
much you change it 12
years.

As for me, its a question of counting the days
before my first dose. The
first weekend in August!!! I’m on 100 mils and I
juist can’t wait to be free
from these liquid handcuffs. Anyway, I was
thinking, as I sat here counting
the days as I mentioned, that if maybe I should
ask my program to start
bringing me down as much as I can tolorate and
then maybe those last five
days instead of drinking my meth, maybe I’ll
instead just buy 5 or 6 bundles
and try and get as much of the meth out of me as
possible. Would that help?
Any thoughts???
Thanks for any advice.

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From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] rootbark potency…
Date: July 13, 2004 at 1:39:29 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks Howard. (as usual) I don’t know if you ever listen to the radio show “Coast to Coast” via Art Bell (and George Noory) but this past weekend, Saturday night specifically, a gentleman by the name Daniel Pinchbeck was interviewed. He wrote a book called “Breaking Open The Head” which is a chronicle of his travels and his doing many different haullucinogens. There was a chapter on Iboga/Ibogaine which was extremely interesting. I wish I knew about it beforehand so I could have made everyone aware of it, but you might be interested in his book. You can find some data on the book and Pinchbeck on “coasttocoastartbell” and look at Past shows-Saturday Night-July10. Also the website “breakingopenthehead”.
Have a great day man,
Julian

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] rootbark potency…
Date: July 13, 2004 at 1:16:46 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Good Morning Jim! How are you doing? Obviously from my E-Mail, you can tell I feel as you do. If I wasn’t going to receive any money from my accident, it would take me a very, very long time to save $1500.00 and up. Though I believe the experience would be better initially with the guidance from someone, it is very difficult for most of us to save that kind of money. Alot of people say to me “considering all the money you have spent on dope, why not spend that money on something that will help you.” The point though is except for when I was dealing, I never had a thousand bucks (and more) to spend on drugs! I had to hustle my ass off to come up with $100.00 and it was strictly on a daily basis. Once I decided not to pursue that lifestyle,  there was no way I was going to hustle like I did for dope and save the money for a year. It’s just not realistic. The thing is it doesn’t seem likely (unless you know somebody very well) that we can get Iboga/Ibogaine for a reasonable cost ($100 or less) so we are in the position of figuring out how to get the funds. For me, it’s worth it. I would not keep doing it for a couple of grand each time but for my first two times I would. Do me a favor, be a little patient and you just might find the money. I don’t mean to sound so cryptic but you just never know!
Regards my man,
Julian

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] *Mark* off topic personal news!!!!!
Date: July 12, 2004 at 11:49:58 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/12/2004 6:09:15 PM Central Daylight Time, iboga@ziplip.com writes:
On counting the days down to treatment, I’d use the time to set up as best you can a good solid aftercare program, make some extra money, and good solid friends who you know you can talk to without having to pay, also, if use methadone counselor find out if still can use services even if not on methadone.
I’d get as much social services contact info I could out of them, then I’d look on-line to find if any services are available that unaware of.  Also, I would prepare as best as possible a follow up dose of iboga/ine and if you don’t need it you don’t need it.
Also, writing or thinking about expectations for iboga/ine treatment can help see more clear, i.e. if iboga/ine only takes away half of the sick is it still doable etc.

Sounds like very good thought out advice!
You know, 50mgs of Methadone taken on a regular basis will block any rush or high anyway. I have had people chuckle and say “Oh yeah? Let me get you some of my heroin.” I haven’t done heroin since been on Methadone but I have tried pharmaceuticals and didn’t feel a damn thing!
Callie

From: kevyn at the Cluster <kevyn@pagancluster.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Hello all
Date: July 12, 2004 at 9:34:21 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Canada to the US, maybe is different.

I am a convicted felon from Canada, albeit not a large charge and the last drug related charge is from 12 years ago, but I have access to the US, even with the crazy, strict drug laws you have imposed.
I had to apply for a waiver to enter, and just recently took a one month vacation from Alberta Canada to Georgia and back. They searched myself, my wife, our car and trailer completely and interviewed us for over 2 hours. This was the worst border experience i have ever had, but I still get in.
I doubt you can not enter canada, as our drug policies and laws are not nearly as firm as the US. You probably just need to find the right visa or waiver to apply for ahead of time.

peace
kevyn

CrookedEye420@aol.com wrote:
I am in the US, so this may not be as easy for you.  But I got a passport with a felony for drugs and I know I can’t travel into Canada but as far as I know, most other places are okay.

In a message dated 7/3/2004 5:06:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time, CrookedEye420@aol.com writes:
I am a convicted felon for heroin and crack cocaine and I flew to Amsterdam, no problem.  Canada on the otherhand is a no-no, for felons.

In a message dated 7/3/2004 4:24:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time, paradisepaint@callsouth.net.nz writes:
Your message jumped out at me.  My partner also had back problems, has had 2 major operations and then after all the years recovering + using loads of opiates, morphine, poppies etc.  Finally getting it together on the Methadone and then he broke his ankle and it all fell to bits again.
We talked of a holiday in Australia for 16 years but the money kept disappearing up our arms etc.  We have finally had our holiday (2 weeks in sunny Queensland) but had a few probs with customs etc.  because Wayne had to have clearance to take 2 days of takeaway Methadone with him and then we had to go to a clinic in Brisbane to get it all OKed  with letters etc. and then hang round for ages to get more reference letters to get a methadone pickup at a pharmacy near where we were staying.  It was certainly an experience.  Maybe we have it easy in NZ.  While in Australia it cost $25 a day for your dose (no money, no dose),  one pharmacy had this big set of rules which included no partners, wives etc. allowed in the shop with the person taking the dose, no sunglasses(?? is that to check your eyes or stop you looking rough or something).  Also one chemist only supplied takeaways in glass bottles which we had to pay $1. each for and then told us to wrap them up carefully because under no condition would there be any replacement if one broke.
We also have a friend that has a conviction for cocaine and he can’t go on holiday anywhere so where does that leave people trying to get treatment in other countries.   Would be interested to know how others get on or perhaps they don’t have drug convictions and can travel.  Allison

From: “Mark Corcoran” <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] *Mark* off topic personal news!!!!!
Date: July 12, 2004 at 9:28:46 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Okay is there a certain part that of that thinking that is solely based on
the thought of a guilt free get high but  I also know that at the Ibogaine
association in Mexico gives you 3 days of morphine because they think its
better to be using a shorter half life drug. I met with my guide tonight and
he feels that the idea of Heroin poses more problems than solutions as well.
But I’m on 100 mils so I’m scared to death of just coming straight off but
I’m resigning myself to the idea that its has worked for so many people that
are in the same position or worse that I’m in not to mention they’ve been on
it alot longer. So I guess what I’m saying is I’m giving myself over to it
now so that I am prepared when the day comes (in less than 3 weeks!!!) and
for me, giving myself over completely contradicts the thought of doing dope.
You know what I mean? Its like how can I say that I’m serious about this
very spiritual experience if I’m willing to do MORE drugs or Switching drugs
right before. I think people that are lucky enough to be in our situation
need to resign themselves to not using and focus instead of being free from
all of this and preparing for the experience. Keep in touch and PLEASE let
me know if you are doing this before August 3rd. I’d love to hear about your
experience. And I’d also like to know you didn’t die. Just kidding :o)
.sorta?
And Marcus when you feel like that in the meantime smoke pot. Good luck and
I’ll look forward to hearing about your adventure.
—– Original Message —–
From: “marcus israel” <vesch69@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 7:51 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] *Mark* off topic personal news!!!!!

I’ve been thinking of doing the same sort of thing
myself, if for no other reason then i want to have a
satisfying shot or two prior to my treatment,.. but
then i get to thinking of the utter foolishness of
this way- that if i’ve been successfully staying away
from shooting drugs by staying on my (low dose) of
methadone, then why on Earth F-k that up by trying to
get high again-esp. when the whole point of my
impending Ibogaine treatment is to reinforce my quest
for total abstinence from hard-core, y’know?
I feel in a way that i’ll be owing it to myself to get
in a few “last licks” be-4 undergoing ibogaine, but in
reality it could very well pose several potential
troubles with the overall successs of the treatment,
right?
The (experienced) people who will be doing my
treatment have not in any way suggested to me to get
off the meth and switch to shorter-acting opiates, so
then why should i take it upon myself to do that, it
all seems like what we’re trying to do is a justified
last heroin binge, no?
w/b-Marcus

— iboga@ziplip.com,
UNEXPECTED_DATA_AFTER_ADDRESS@.SYNTAX-ERROR. wrote:

I’m interested in this question of switching to
short acting from long lasting prior to iboga/ine,
and am looking forward to hearing other input.

If it was like 30, 60 or 90 days or more prior
perhaps
switching to heroin from methadone COULD be a
‘reasonable’ idea IF clean supply.

No powders unless cut yourself, “good quality tar”
only.

I think it would be better to have someone else
administer it who will do the right thing even if
try to change original objectives to use it more
for rush instead of no sick.
Heroin will no doubt feel better the ‘done so that
may or may not trigger something.  Other dangerous
part is over doing it because sick knows might be
last chance to feel rush.

Also, I would think taking non-IV would be better
for some in keeping compulsion down as much as
possible, if a needle has to be used at least miss
on purpose. (I never thought I would say miss on
purpose lol)

Perhaps ability to consistently not take extra ‘done
with
take homes could be a sign if this is good idea.

It would suck to get arrested (felony) for black
market heroin, then have to deal with that instead
of iboga/ine treatment.

But, if after all that it still sounds like a
‘reasonable’ idea, then how often do you administer?
every 4-6 hours?
Do you buy all supply at once or go back dose after
dose?  If get sick how much of a dose level window
am allowed to increase? Or is the dose level set in
stone?

It would really suck to get a hot shot right before
iboga/ine treatment, so perhaps if you don’t already
have reliable illegal heroin connect in place could
be a factor.

But if the switch is only 3 or 4 days prior to
iboga/ine, the methadone sick has still got a while
to
clear out, so I don’t understand the point in that
situation.  Could it add to what methadone sick
already would have done?  I guess if it does it
wouldn’t last more then a few
weeks, if that.

On counting the days down to treatment, I’d use the
time to set up as best you can a good solid
after-care program, make some extra money, and good
solid friends who you know you can talk to without
having to pay, also, if use methadone counselor find
out if still can use services even if not on
methadone.
I’d get as much social services contact info I
could out of them, then I’d look on-line to find if
any services are available that unaware of.  Also, I
would prepare as best as possible a follow up dose
of iboga/ine and if you don’t need it you don’t need
it.
Also, writing or thinking about expectations for
iboga/ine treatment can help see more clear, i.e. if
iboga/ine only takes away half of the sick is it
still doable etc.

I hope you have a productive journey.

Jason
iboga.wmatrix.net

—–Original Message—–
From: CrookedEye420@aol.com
[mailto:CrookedEye420@aol.com]
Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004, 7:30 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] off topic personal
news!!!!!

I started a taper and got down to 12mgs, from
100mgs a day before I went, but
I don’t know how much it helped, however, your idea
about switching to heroin
before going to do the ibogaine is probably a good
idea and I have heard that
doing that is recommended because methadone has
such a long half-life.  I
think ibogaine works much better when your
addiction is to shorter acting
opiates.

In a message dated 7/11/2004 10:43:36 PM Eastern
Daylight Time, “Mark
Corcoran” <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com> writes:

I read an article way back when where he talks
about many overdoses and many
kicks and then I read something else about some
trip that he took to North
Africa for “sprtiual inlighenment” so I don’t
doubt it. Also if you look at
the inside cover of Ritual de lo Habitual there is
a medical cabinet with
all these different strange medicnes and right in
the middle is a bottle of
Methadone with David Navaro’s name on it. Which I
thought was so cool at the
time when I think back on it. Wow its amazing how
much you change it 12
years.

As for me, its a question of counting the days
before my first dose. The
first weekend in August!!! I’m on 100 mils and I
juist can’t wait to be free
from these liquid handcuffs. Anyway, I was
thinking, as I sat here counting
the days as I mentioned, that if maybe I should
ask my program to start
bringing me down as much as I can tolorate and
then maybe those last five
days instead of drinking my meth, maybe I’ll
instead just buy 5 or 6 bundles
and try and get as much of the meth out of me as
possible. Would that help?
Any thoughts???
Thanks for any advice.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – 100MB free storage!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: kevyn at the Cluster <kevyn@pagancluster.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: July 12, 2004 at 9:25:43 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Just want to share an alternative opinion.
Some may see “false sweetness”, I certainly feel and find honesty and love from the 12 step community.
Any community, you always get whatever your give, and there are also exceptions of people who are dealing with their own crap through trying to be the fixers of everyone else.
I rarely attend 12 step groups these days, but follow no one fellowship. I prefer to go to CA, NA, AA or even alanon from time to time, not for them to help fix me, but rather to meet people who have had similar issues as myself, and have chosen to live a new way.
12 steps are not for everyone certainly, but I just wanted to share the positive impact they can also have for some people in this list.
I have developed some of the most amazing relationships and friends from them. I think any community is just a place for social gathering wether it is a church, pub, sports club, whatever.
And bear in mind that I am an “out of the broom-closet” witch. Even at 12 step meetings. So the over-use of Christian morals does not affect my personal relationships within the fellowship.
I just consider myself luckier, since i do not have just one God to ask help from, I have many!
peace
kevyn

UUSEAN@aol.com wrote:

Hi Jim,

After twenty damn years of AA/NA, I know that the 12 steps are not the way for met to go.  I have no intention of returning to meetings.  I really cannot stand them at this point and they did me no good, maybe hurt.

As for therapy, I do not expect any counselor to “get me clean.”  That’s my job.  After all these years of treatments, meetings, “relapses,,,” etc., I really would like to sit down and talk about where I am now, and where I hope to go.  I also fully intend to try ibogaine treatment.

So thanks again for your refreshing frankness.  After years of the false sweetness of 12 step meetings, it is a breath of fresh air.

Sean

From: kevyn at the Cluster <kevyn@pagancluster.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Price on Ibogaine treatment
Date: July 12, 2004 at 9:17:59 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Not really serious here, but it has been so long since I wrote anything to this list.

So, Just wanted to mention that there are some witches here, and our ancestors were not hanged often, but rather burned.
And as for the kids, well with all the new age, neo-pagans out there, I would assume many are now veggies anyhow, so not to worry about too many witches eating children these days.
I just eat any raw red meat, with a preference to Goats over kids.
peace
kevyn

Jim Hadey wrote:
Hi Julian,

Thank you for the kind words.  Log in next week and I will be babbleing about how they used to hang witches years ago.  Speaking of witches, Al Capone, Luchanno and Meyer Lanskie and the mafia boys sold alcohol (and killed people too) but they never sold to a 10 year old kid.  Yea, they were rough and tough and killers but still moral enough to leave the kids alone.  Something the gangsters of today should learn.  OK, all done – LOL.  Ya all have a nice weekend.

Sapphirestardus@aol.com wrote:
Jim you couldn’t babble too much, you can’t babble enough when it comes to this issue. I mean i go over this shit in my head every single day! I’m sure I repeat myself with some people when I discuss this shit BUT it really is sickening the way a nation as great as we can be and have been, is so fucked up when it comes to certain moral issues. Unfortunately we have been this way throughout history. Human beings  generally speaking just haven’t learned that you can’t litigate moral issues. We just can’t let it be. There are countless examples of severe repercussions from acting the way we do but history keeps repeating itself because we refuse to learn! You just keep on ‘babbling’. I LOVE IT!!

Regards,
Julian

Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – Send 10MB messages!

From: marcus israel <vesch69@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] *Mark* off topic personal news!!!!!
Date: July 12, 2004 at 7:51:55 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’ve been thinking of doing the same sort of thing
myself, if for no other reason then i want to have a
satisfying shot or two prior to my treatment,.. but
then i get to thinking of the utter foolishness of
this way- that if i’ve been successfully staying away
from shooting drugs by staying on my (low dose) of
methadone, then why on Earth F-k that up by trying to
get high again-esp. when the whole point of my
impending Ibogaine treatment is to reinforce my quest
for total abstinence from hard-core, y’know?
I feel in a way that i’ll be owing it to myself to get
in a few “last licks” be-4 undergoing ibogaine, but in
reality it could very well pose several potential
troubles with the overall successs of the treatment,
right?
The (experienced) people who will be doing my
treatment have not in any way suggested to me to get
off the meth and switch to shorter-acting opiates, so
then why should i take it upon myself to do that, it
all seems like what we’re trying to do is a justified
last heroin binge, no?
w/b-Marcus

— iboga@ziplip.com,
UNEXPECTED_DATA_AFTER_ADDRESS@.SYNTAX-ERROR. wrote:

I’m interested in this question of switching to
short acting from long lasting prior to iboga/ine,
and am looking forward to hearing other input.

If it was like 30, 60 or 90 days or more prior
perhaps
switching to heroin from methadone COULD be a
‘reasonable’ idea IF clean supply.

No powders unless cut yourself, “good quality tar”
only.

I think it would be better to have someone else
administer it who will do the right thing even if
try to change original objectives to use it more
for rush instead of no sick.
Heroin will no doubt feel better the ‘done so that
may or may not trigger something.  Other dangerous
part is over doing it because sick knows might be
last chance to feel rush.

Also, I would think taking non-IV would be better
for some in keeping compulsion down as much as
possible, if a needle has to be used at least miss
on purpose. (I never thought I would say miss on
purpose lol)

Perhaps ability to consistently not take extra ‘done
with
take homes could be a sign if this is good idea.

It would suck to get arrested (felony) for black
market heroin, then have to deal with that instead
of iboga/ine treatment.

But, if after all that it still sounds like a
‘reasonable’ idea, then how often do you administer?
every 4-6 hours?
Do you buy all supply at once or go back dose after
dose?  If get sick how much of a dose level window
am allowed to increase? Or is the dose level set in
stone?

It would really suck to get a hot shot right before
iboga/ine treatment, so perhaps if you don’t already
have reliable illegal heroin connect in place could
be a factor.

But if the switch is only 3 or 4 days prior to
iboga/ine, the methadone sick has still got a while
to
clear out, so I don’t understand the point in that
situation.  Could it add to what methadone sick
already would have done?  I guess if it does it
wouldn’t last more then a few
weeks, if that.

On counting the days down to treatment, I’d use the
time to set up as best you can a good solid
after-care program, make some extra money, and good
solid friends who you know you can talk to without
having to pay, also, if use methadone counselor find
out if still can use services even if not on
methadone.
I’d get as much social services contact info I
could out of them, then I’d look on-line to find if
any services are available that unaware of.  Also, I
would prepare as best as possible a follow up dose
of iboga/ine and if you don’t need it you don’t need
it.
Also, writing or thinking about expectations for
iboga/ine treatment can help see more clear, i.e. if
iboga/ine only takes away half of the sick is it
still doable etc.

I hope you have a productive journey.

Jason
iboga.wmatrix.net

—–Original Message—–
From: CrookedEye420@aol.com
[mailto:CrookedEye420@aol.com]
Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004, 7:30 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] off topic personal
news!!!!!

I started a taper and got down to 12mgs, from
100mgs a day before I went, but
I don’t know how much it helped, however, your idea
about switching to heroin
before going to do the ibogaine is probably a good
idea and I have heard that
doing that is recommended because methadone has
such a long half-life.  I
think ibogaine works much better when your
addiction is to shorter acting
opiates.

In a message dated 7/11/2004 10:43:36 PM Eastern
Daylight Time, “Mark
Corcoran” <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com> writes:

I read an article way back when where he talks
about many overdoses and many
kicks and then I read something else about some
trip that he took to North
Africa for “sprtiual inlighenment” so I don’t
doubt it. Also if you look at
the inside cover of Ritual de lo Habitual there is
a medical cabinet with
all these different strange medicnes and right in
the middle is a bottle of
Methadone with David Navaro’s name on it. Which I
thought was so cool at the
time when I think back on it. Wow its amazing how
much you change it 12
years.

As for me, its a question of counting the days
before my first dose. The
first weekend in August!!! I’m on 100 mils and I
juist can’t wait to be free
from these liquid handcuffs. Anyway, I was
thinking, as I sat here counting
the days as I mentioned, that if maybe I should
ask my program to start
bringing me down as much as I can tolorate and
then maybe those last five
days instead of drinking my meth, maybe I’ll
instead just buy 5 or 6 bundles
and try and get as much of the meth out of me as
possible. Would that help?
Any thoughts???
Thanks for any advice.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – 100MB free storage!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: iboga@ziplip.com <iboga@ziplip.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] *Mark* off topic personal news!!!!!
Date: July 12, 2004 at 6:46:13 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m interested in this question of switching to short acting from long lasting prior to iboga/ine, and am looking forward to hearing other input.

If it was like 30, 60 or 90 days or more prior perhaps
switching to heroin from methadone COULD be a ‘reasonable’ idea IF clean supply.

No powders unless cut yourself, “good quality tar” only.

I think it would be better to have someone else
administer it who will do the right thing even if try to change original objectives to use it more
for rush instead of no sick.
Heroin will no doubt feel better the ‘done so that may or may not trigger something.  Other dangerous part is over doing it because sick knows might be last chance to feel rush.

Also, I would think taking non-IV would be better for some in keeping compulsion down as much as possible, if a needle has to be used at least miss on purpose. (I never thought I would say miss on purpose lol)

Perhaps ability to consistently not take extra ‘done with
take homes could be a sign if this is good idea.

It would suck to get arrested (felony) for black market heroin, then have to deal with that instead of iboga/ine treatment.

But, if after all that it still sounds like a ‘reasonable’ idea, then how often do you administer? every 4-6 hours?
Do you buy all supply at once or go back dose after dose?  If get sick how much of a dose level window am allowed to increase? Or is the dose level set in stone?

It would really suck to get a hot shot right before iboga/ine treatment, so perhaps if you don’t already have reliable illegal heroin connect in place could be a factor.

But if the switch is only 3 or 4 days prior to iboga/ine, the methadone sick has still got a while to
clear out, so I don’t understand the point in that situation.  Could it add to what methadone sick
already would have done?  I guess if it does it wouldn’t last more then a few
weeks, if that.

On counting the days down to treatment, I’d use the time to set up as best you can a good solid after-care program, make some extra money, and good solid friends who you know you can talk to without having to pay, also, if use methadone counselor find out if still can use services even if not on methadone.
I’d get as much social services contact info I could out of them, then I’d look on-line to find if any services are available that unaware of.  Also, I would prepare as best as possible a follow up dose of iboga/ine and if you don’t need it you don’t need it.
Also, writing or thinking about expectations for iboga/ine treatment can help see more clear, i.e. if iboga/ine only takes away half of the sick is it still doable etc.

I hope you have a productive journey.

Jason
iboga.wmatrix.net

—–Original Message—–
From: CrookedEye420@aol.com [mailto:CrookedEye420@aol.com]
Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004, 7:30 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] off topic personal news!!!!!

I started a taper and got down to 12mgs, from 100mgs a day before I went, but
I don’t know how much it helped, however, your idea about switching to heroin
before going to do the ibogaine is probably a good idea and I have heard that
doing that is recommended because methadone has such a long half-life.  I
think ibogaine works much better when your addiction is to shorter acting
opiates.

In a message dated 7/11/2004 10:43:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, “Mark
Corcoran” <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com> writes:

I read an article way back when where he talks about many overdoses and many
kicks and then I read something else about some trip that he took to North
Africa for “sprtiual inlighenment” so I don’t doubt it. Also if you look at
the inside cover of Ritual de lo Habitual there is a medical cabinet with
all these different strange medicnes and right in the middle is a bottle of
Methadone with David Navaro’s name on it. Which I thought was so cool at the
time when I think back on it. Wow its amazing how much you change it 12
years.

As for me, its a question of counting the days before my first dose. The
first weekend in August!!! I’m on 100 mils and I juist can’t wait to be free
from these liquid handcuffs. Anyway, I was thinking, as I sat here counting
the days as I mentioned, that if maybe I should ask my program to start
bringing me down as much as I can tolorate and then maybe those last five
days instead of drinking my meth, maybe I’ll instead just buy 5 or 6 bundles
and try and get as much of the meth out of me as possible. Would that help?
Any thoughts???
Thanks for any advice.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fw: Drug War News – blast-from-the-past : BLACKS TARGETED BY CIA
Date: July 12, 2004 at 4:40:00 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: Michael Kane
To: preston peet
Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 9:14 AM
Subject: Drug War News – blast-from-the-past : BLACKS TARGETED BY CIA

http://guerrillanews.com/clarity/

Clarity: “Steal”
GNN is proud to feature a guest video from one of our favorite up-and-coming
political bands, Clarity. Their song “Steal” is an anthem for a generation
sick and tired of being ruled by criminals. In the track’s final blistering
verse, frontman Michael Kane breaks into a rapid-fire account of the
allegations that the CIA aided the importation of cocaine into the black
communities of Los Angeles during the 1980s. This segment was gleaned from
Mike Ruppert’s legendary, and tragic, 1999 article “Blacks Targeted by CIA,”
in which Ruppert asserts:
“[I]s there a supportable case that the CIA directly intended for
African-Americans to receive the cocaine which it knew would be turned into
crack cocaine and which it knew would prove so addictive as to destroy
entire communities? The answer is absolutely, yes.”

http://guerrillanews.com/clarity/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] off topic personal news!!!!!
Date: July 12, 2004 at 4:24:21 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

same Callie, seeing as I’m not planning on adding to the race’s numbers,
someone’s gotta do it, so I’m glad to hear it from such a decent and kind
person as opposed to say, oh, a Bush.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] off topic personal news!!!!!

I AM GOING TO BE A GRANDMA IN  FEBRUARY!!!!!!

mazel tov =)

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: NeekaBhushan@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] off topic personal news!!!!!
Date: July 12, 2004 at 4:21:47 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

could someone please help me unlist/unsubscribe to this ibogaine list? Please reply

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] TEST
Date: July 12, 2004 at 3:35:13 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

IT got through without a single request for receipts Hannah.
;-))
Peace,
Preston

“The Whole Drug War Sucks” – Preston Peet

—– Original Message —–
From: Hannah Clay
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 10:15 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] TEST

OK.I think that last message only got sent once (phew!) but still asked for
receipts!  Somehow my PC forgot what I’d told it!  Now if you think how many
times that message was sent to the list you can imagine just how many
receipts I got! So this is a test-it should only go through ONCE and it
SHOULDN’T ask for any damn receipts!

Cheers,
Hannah
—– Original Message —–
From: CrookedEye420@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 7:59 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe

In a message dated 7/1/2004 2:24:15 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
gregdouglass@covad.net writes:
Ten thousand bucks ?!? Contact the Ibogaine Association directly to check
that: they aren’t anywhere near that expensive, unless their rates have gone
up triple since I did the treatment just over a year ago! I should think
that between a plane ticket to San Diego and the five-day stay in Mexico
that it would still be much less than going to Holland.
But…just out of curiosity…does anyone know how much the treatment
at the Holland facility runs?
Greg Douglass
It cost me about $2,300 for my whole trip to A’dam and the
Iboga/Cannabis/mushroom tea, plus my stay and food.  That includes the
roundtrip plane tickets, too!  It’s not a medical facility but Sara can take
care of you better than some nurse who never experienced the Iboga, IMO.
Shawn

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] rootbark potency…
Date: July 12, 2004 at 12:50:49 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Curtis,

Thanks for the info.  $2000 a gram in SF, damn.  I was hoping there was a
place maybe in Canada which I live close to like a health food store or
whatever.  I really would not want to give a drug dealer $300 and hope I
don’t get ripped off far less $2000.  Yep, the drug laws make some people
rich.

There is that place in Toronto i was talking about, ethnogarden, but there
have been some reports of their rootbark being of poor quality (and no
reports that i know of about it being of good quality).

I don’t think i’ve read anyone’s reports on the hcl that they sell, though.

jon

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] off topic personal news!!!!!
Date: July 12, 2004 at 12:38:21 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I AM GOING TO BE A GRANDMA IN  FEBRUARY!!!!!!

mazel tov =)

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Non-opiate narcotic
Date: July 12, 2004 at 12:34:40 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

So, are you saying cocaine isn’t a narcotic, nor are valium or benzo’s,
etc.?  Because they are all classified as narcotics under the drug laws.

Well, one problem with words is that different people use them to mean
different things.

Law enforcement (and Congress too) tend to use the word ‘narcotics’
indiscriminately; they use it to refer to any drug they feel like
demonising.

But, neither US law enforcement nor Congress generally pay much attention
to what science actually says.

In medicine, ‘narcotic’ refers only to opiates and related substances.
Cocaine is classified as a stimulant and a local anasthetic, and benzo’s
are classified as sedative/hypnotics and anxiolytics (anti-anxiety meds).

jon

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From: “Mark Corcoran” <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] off topic personal news!!!!!
Date: July 12, 2004 at 12:07:23 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

See thats what I thought. Now let me ask you, you said you were on 100 which
is what I’m on now. How severe were your withdrawals after you were dosed
and how fast did you come down from 100?

—– Original Message —–
From: <CrookedEye420@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 9:42 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] off topic personal news!!!!!

I started a taper and got down to 12mgs, from 100mgs a day before I went,
but I don’t know how much it helped, however, your idea about switching to
heroin before going to do the ibogaine is probably a good idea and I have
heard that doing that is recommended because methadone has such a long
half-life.  I think ibogaine works much better when your addiction is to
shorter acting opiates.

In a message dated 7/11/2004 10:43:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, “Mark
Corcoran” <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com> writes:

I read an article way back when where he talks about many overdoses and
many
kicks and then I read something else about some trip that he took to
North
Africa for “sprtiual inlighenment” so I don’t doubt it. Also if you look
at
the inside cover of Ritual de lo Habitual there is a medical cabinet with
all these different strange medicnes and right in the middle is a bottle
of
Methadone with David Navaro’s name on it. Which I thought was so cool at
the
time when I think back on it. Wow its amazing how much you change it 12
years.

As for me, its a question of counting the days before my first dose. The
first weekend in August!!! I’m on 100 mils and I juist can’t wait to be
free
from these liquid handcuffs. Anyway, I was thinking, as I sat here
counting
the days as I mentioned, that if maybe I should ask my program to start
bringing me down as much as I can tolorate and then maybe those last five
days instead of drinking my meth, maybe I’ll instead just buy 5 or 6
bundles
and try and get as much of the meth out of me as possible. Would that
help?
Any thoughts???
Thanks for any advice.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 10:11 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] off topic personal news!!!!!

not that I’ve ever heard of, but it is a nice thought.
I wasn’t aware he’d actually kicked anything, but hey, could be
mistaken
there too.
I kinda thought, well, never mind what I thought. Jane’s is one of my
all
time favorite bands.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Mark Corcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 5:04 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] off topic personal news!!!!!

I have a rather dumb question but does anyone know if Perry Ferrel from
Jane’s Addiction final kick his habit by using Ibogaine and is the song
“3
days” about that?
The words to me sound like thats all it could be.
—– Original Message —–
From: UUSEAN@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 4:40 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] off topic personal news!!!!!

Hi Callie,

Nice to hear your good news. I had some technical problems with the
list
(my posts were bouncing) but that all seems better now.

Sean

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\

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[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Hannah Clay” <spaglet@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] TEST
Date: July 12, 2004 at 10:15:38 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

OK.I think that last message only got sent once (phew!) but still asked for receipts!  Somehow my PC forgot what I’d told it!  Now if you think how many times that message was sent to the list you can imagine just how many receipts I got! So this is a test-it should only go through ONCE and it SHOULDN’T ask for any damn receipts!

Cheers,
Hannah
—– Original Message —–
From: CrookedEye420@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 7:59 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe

In a message dated 7/1/2004 2:24:15 AM Eastern Daylight Time, gregdouglass@covad.net writes:
Ten thousand bucks ?!? Contact the Ibogaine Association directly to check that: they aren’t anywhere near that expensive, unless their rates have gone up triple since I did the treatment just over a year ago! I should think that between a plane ticket to San Diego and the five-day stay in Mexico that it would still be much less than going to Holland.
But…just out of curiosity…does anyone know how much the treatment at the Holland facility runs?
Greg Douglass
It cost me about $2,300 for my whole trip to A’dam and the Iboga/Cannabis/mushroom tea, plus my stay and food.  That includes the roundtrip plane tickets, too!  It’s not a medical facility but Sara can take care of you better than some nurse who never experienced the Iboga, IMO.
Shawn

From: CrookedEye420@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] off topic personal news!!!!!
Date: July 12, 2004 at 9:42:22 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I started a taper and got down to 12mgs, from 100mgs a day before I went, but I don’t know how much it helped, however, your idea about switching to heroin before going to do the ibogaine is probably a good idea and I have heard that doing that is recommended because methadone has such a long half-life.  I think ibogaine works much better when your addiction is to shorter acting opiates.

In a message dated 7/11/2004 10:43:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, “Mark Corcoran” <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com> writes:

I read an article way back when where he talks about many overdoses and many
kicks and then I read something else about some trip that he took to North
Africa for “sprtiual inlighenment” so I don’t doubt it. Also if you look at
the inside cover of Ritual de lo Habitual there is a medical cabinet with
all these different strange medicnes and right in the middle is a bottle of
Methadone with David Navaro’s name on it. Which I thought was so cool at the
time when I think back on it. Wow its amazing how much you change it 12
years.

As for me, its a question of counting the days before my first dose. The
first weekend in August!!! I’m on 100 mils and I juist can’t wait to be free
from these liquid handcuffs. Anyway, I was thinking, as I sat here counting
the days as I mentioned, that if maybe I should ask my program to start
bringing me down as much as I can tolorate and then maybe those last five
days instead of drinking my meth, maybe I’ll instead just buy 5 or 6 bundles
and try and get as much of the meth out of me as possible. Would that help?
Any thoughts???
Thanks for any advice.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 10:11 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] off topic personal news!!!!!

not that I’ve ever heard of, but it is a nice thought.
I wasn’t aware he’d actually kicked anything, but hey, could be mistaken
there too.
I kinda thought, well, never mind what I thought. Jane’s is one of my all
time favorite bands.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Mark Corcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 5:04 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] off topic personal news!!!!!

I have a rather dumb question but does anyone know if Perry Ferrel from
Jane’s Addiction final kick his habit by using Ibogaine and is the song “3
days” about that?
The words to me sound like thats all it could be.
—– Original Message —–
From: UUSEAN@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 4:40 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] off topic personal news!!!!!

Hi Callie,

Nice to hear your good news.  I had some technical problems with the list
(my posts were bouncing) but that all seems better now.

Sean

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] (OT) Re: [ibogaine] Price on Ibogaine treatment
Date: July 10, 2004 at 8:39:33 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston,

Hiya!  I’ve been away for a week and just came home to 350+ emails!!!

As to the receipt thing-its a pain in the ass but I don’t know anything
about computers and I don’t know how to turn it off!  I’m really sorry if it
was a pain-believe me its worse this end!  I use Outlook Express if anyone
could quickly tell me how to turn it off?  Else I’ll ask my friends n hold
off sending anymore messages til I’ve switched it off.

Sorry again, hope you’re feeling happier today!  🙂
LOL Hannah

Oh and did I have a heading ‘Adam’?  If so it was a mistake…sorry again
(wince!)

….eek!  Now you’ll get a receipt thingy for this message….
—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 3:09 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] (OT) Re: [ibogaine] Price on Ibogaine treatment

Hi Hannah
Out of curiosity and in fairly good cheer I would like to ask you, Why
is your mail set to get a receipt from other people upon their getting
your
email? What is the purpose of that feature and why would anyone use it?
Just curious here, as I myself have never once ok’d the sending of one of
those receipts to anyone at all ever, and have always wondered why people
would bother setting that feature on their email unless it was a specific
email to a specific person. But each and every email? Egad!
Seriously, I’m a little grouchy and befuddled feeling this morning,
trying to shake off the cobwebs before going to jam this afternoon, so I
apologize up front if I sound snippy, but I would like to know why you
yourself have that setting set in your email.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Hannah Clay
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 6:06 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Price on Ibogaine treatment

“Whenever I came out of a meeting I had a stronger craving than ever.”

Totally!  Same for me too.  I’d go to NA with the best intentions n come
out
not being able to get H off my mind, just ‘needing a hit’!

—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 2:32 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Price on Ibogaine treatment

Hi Julian,

Thank you for the kind words.  Log in next week and I will be babbleing
about how they used to hang witches years ago.  Speaking of witches, Al
Capone, Luchanno and Meyer Lanskie and the mafia boys sold alcohol (and
killed people too) but they never sold to a 10 year old kid.  Yea, they
were
rough and tough and killers but still moral enough to leave the kids
alone.
Something the gangsters of today should learn.  OK, all done – LOL.  Ya
all
have a nice weekend.

Sapphirestardus@aol.com wrote:
Jim you couldn’t babble too much, you can’t babble enough when it comes to
this issue. I mean i go over this shit in my head every single day! I’m
sure
I repeat myself with some people when I discuss this shit BUT it really is
sickening the way a nation as great as we can be and have been, is so
fucked
up when it comes to certain moral issues. Unfortunately we have been this
way throughout history. Human beings  generally speaking just haven’t
learned that you can’t litigate moral issues. We just can’t let it be.
There
are countless examples of severe repercussions from acting the way we do
but
history keeps repeating itself because we refuse to learn! You just keep
on
‘babbling’. I LOVE IT!!

Regards,

Julian

Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – Send 10MB messages!

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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<)[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Hannah Clay” <spaglet@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] (OT) Re: [ibogaine] Price on Ibogaine treatment
Date: July 12, 2004 at 8:00:01 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Oh dear god I don’t know what’s going on.  I might post something twice by
accident but not that many times!  Sorry for the spam everyone.  I’m just
going to post this to see if it works normally and only gets sent ONCE!  Oh
dear, now I’ve been introduced as the girl who had no control over her
email…..
—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 5:34 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] (OT) Re: [ibogaine] Price on Ibogaine treatment

has the whole “hannah’s email seems to be in a really weird mood” topic
been
discussed yet? Hannah, why is it that I’m now getting repeated replies
outta
you?
You’ve got gremlins or something, or Mindvox does. Isit just me or is
everyone getting these repeats?
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2004 8:39 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] (OT) Re: [ibogaine] Price on Ibogaine treatment

Preston,

Hiya!  I’ve been away for a week and just came home to 350+ emails!!!

As to the receipt thing-its a pain in the ass but I don’t know anything
about computers and I don’t know how to turn it off!  I’m really sorry
if
it
was a pain-believe me its worse this end!  I use Outlook Express if
anyone
could quickly tell me how to turn it off?  Else I’ll ask my friends n
hold
off sending anymore messages til I’ve switched it off.

Sorry again, hope you’re feeling happier today!  🙂
LOL Hannah

Oh and did I have a heading ‘Adam’?  If so it was a mistake…sorry
again
(wince!)

….eek!  Now you’ll get a receipt thingy for this message….
—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 3:09 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] (OT) Re: [ibogaine] Price on Ibogaine treatment

Hi Hannah
Out of curiosity and in fairly good cheer I would like to ask you,
Why
is your mail set to get a receipt from other people upon their getting
your
email? What is the purpose of that feature and why would anyone use
it?
Just curious here, as I myself have never once ok’d the sending of one
of
those receipts to anyone at all ever, and have always wondered why
people
would bother setting that feature on their email unless it was a
specific
email to a specific person. But each and every email? Egad!
Seriously, I’m a little grouchy and befuddled feeling this
morning,
trying to shake off the cobwebs before going to jam this afternoon, so
I
apologize up front if I sound snippy, but I would like to know why you
yourself have that setting set in your email.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Hannah Clay
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 6:06 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Price on Ibogaine treatment

“Whenever I came out of a meeting I had a stronger craving than ever.”

Totally!  Same for me too.  I’d go to NA with the best intentions n
come
out
not being able to get H off my mind, just ‘needing a hit’!

—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 2:32 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Price on Ibogaine treatment

Hi Julian,

Thank you for the kind words.  Log in next week and I will be
babbleing
about how they used to hang witches years ago.  Speaking of witches,
Al
Capone, Luchanno and Meyer Lanskie and the mafia boys sold alcohol
(and
killed people too) but they never sold to a 10 year old kid.  Yea,
they
were
rough and tough and killers but still moral enough to leave the kids
alone.
Something the gangsters of today should learn.  OK, all done – LOL.
Ya
all
have a nice weekend.

Sapphirestardus@aol.com wrote:
Jim you couldn’t babble too much, you can’t babble enough when it
comes
to
this issue. I mean i go over this shit in my head every single day!
I’m
sure
I repeat myself with some people when I discuss this shit BUT it
really
is
sickening the way a nation as great as we can be and have been, is so
fucked
up when it comes to certain moral issues. Unfortunately we have been
this
way throughout history. Human beings  generally speaking just haven’t
learned that you can’t litigate moral issues. We just can’t let it be.
There
are countless examples of severe repercussions from acting the way we
do
but
history keeps repeating itself because we refuse to learn! You just
keep
on
‘babbling’. I LOVE IT!!

Regards,

Julian

Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – Send 10MB messages!

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] (OT) Re: [ibogaine] Price on Ibogaine treatment
Date: July 10, 2004 at 8:39:33 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston,

Hiya!  I’ve been away for a week and just came home to 350+ emails!!!

As to the receipt thing-its a pain in the ass but I don’t know anything
about computers and I don’t know how to turn it off!  I’m really sorry if it
was a pain-believe me its worse this end!  I use Outlook Express if anyone
could quickly tell me how to turn it off?  Else I’ll ask my friends n hold
off sending anymore messages til I’ve switched it off.

Sorry again, hope you’re feeling happier today!  🙂
LOL Hannah

Oh and did I have a heading ‘Adam’?  If so it was a mistake…sorry again
(wince!)

….eek!  Now you’ll get a receipt thingy for this message….
—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 3:09 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] (OT) Re: [ibogaine] Price on Ibogaine treatment

Hi Hannah
Out of curiosity and in fairly good cheer I would like to ask you, Why
is your mail set to get a receipt from other people upon their getting
your
email? What is the purpose of that feature and why would anyone use it?
Just curious here, as I myself have never once ok’d the sending of one of
those receipts to anyone at all ever, and have always wondered why people
would bother setting that feature on their email unless it was a specific
email to a specific person. But each and every email? Egad!
Seriously, I’m a little grouchy and befuddled feeling this morning,
trying to shake off the cobwebs before going to jam this afternoon, so I
apologize up front if I sound snippy, but I would like to know why you
yourself have that setting set in your email.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Hannah Clay
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 6:06 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Price on Ibogaine treatment

“Whenever I came out of a meeting I had a stronger craving than ever.”

Totally!  Same for me too.  I’d go to NA with the best intentions n come
out
not being able to get H off my mind, just ‘needing a hit’!

—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 2:32 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Price on Ibogaine treatment

Hi Julian,

Thank you for the kind words.  Log in next week and I will be babbleing
about how they used to hang witches years ago.  Speaking of witches, Al
Capone, Luchanno and Meyer Lanskie and the mafia boys sold alcohol (and
killed people too) but they never sold to a 10 year old kid.  Yea, they
were
rough and tough and killers but still moral enough to leave the kids
alone.
Something the gangsters of today should learn.  OK, all done – LOL.  Ya
all
have a nice weekend.

Sapphirestardus@aol.com wrote:
Jim you couldn’t babble too much, you can’t babble enough when it comes to
this issue. I mean i go over this shit in my head every single day! I’m
sure
I repeat myself with some people when I discuss this shit BUT it really is
sickening the way a nation as great as we can be and have been, is so
fucked
up when it comes to certain moral issues. Unfortunately we have been this
way throughout history. Human beings  generally speaking just haven’t
learned that you can’t litigate moral issues. We just can’t let it be.
There
are countless examples of severe repercussions from acting the way we do
but
history keeps repeating itself because we refuse to learn! You just keep
on
‘babbling’. I LOVE IT!!

Regards,

Julian

Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – Send 10MB messages!

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] off topic personal news!!!!!
Date: July 12, 2004 at 5:26:12 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Mark,  I’m not sure what he’s talking about, but it sure conjures up visions of an Ibogaine trip.  Well, we see what we are looking for. I think everyone writes about what they know and everyone who has ever even tried to get clean has written about it. There has got to be a thousand different twist on this theme and I plan to write the 1001. God willin and the creek don’t rise. I just don’t think rock songs and Ibogaine mix, but who knows? Maybe some free form jazz with twisted poetry in the background.   Randy

From: “Michael Maxey” <mike2boys@msn.com>
Subject: Fw: [ibogaine] DMSO
Date: July 12, 2004 at 5:15:08 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thank you Patrick, Here what I am trying or considering, is    make my Duragesic Patch 100ugh which is Fentanyl in patch as you know. it I wanted to find away to get spikes when in need in sever pain.  I take a lot Meduicine   breakthru I get Oxy ir 5mg 4 daily   should be enough  for breakthru  pain, Understand I been on same amount of Breakthru almost 5 yrs.   I started on Oxycotin 80mg day  then 1 year upped to 180mg   I Told Pain Doctor  I am tired of popping pills  to be 50% outofpain.   My 2 boys and wife needs more of me.  So we went with Duragesic started on  50’s in 1 month 75  I stayed there 8 months  was ok, well then Duragesic 100  patch.    Now let me say I in 4 years been with same  Pain Doctor. ok here my story I was born With a Disablilty missing 3 fingers on right and 2 on left.  2 Fingers are gone from knucle down my toes same way.  Noone knows why?    Saying that I type with my left hand using my first finger.  Ok well anyway I went thru all the Bullshit teasing all in school growing up I hung out with All the Headbanger  Heavy metal 80s.   Well In 1993 I got Married My wife at that time before married got pregnet then married. Well I had a Job  was a Security oficer for PNC Bank  I had to make sure noone steals money lol.,  Well  I worked there 6 years.  then In 98 was Offered a Job Working with Adults with Autism, I was good with the Men Patients we worked in a Vocational day program our patients do mailings  they also put the toys in Bubble gum machine you see at grocery store.   Anyway  I fell  in Love with my Job, It wasn’t about pay it was deep down in my Heart, Well in 9-9-99  A 42 year old Male Patient I was turned couldn’t see him.   He ran about 25 feet  rammed his head into my Back,  I never knew pain until his Head r an into  me.  since then I have not work 1  day since injury.  I am on Workers Compensation and also SSDI  deemed Toally Disabiled. I had back fusion 1 level L-5 S-1  which never helped  well helped some. Now I have a Spinal Cord Stimulator bound by a cane.  I get nerve pain  that hurts so bad I affect my left leg more then right.  ok enough ok.  About my life.  That me I live in Delaware My wife works I take care of house If that what you call it?  lol  Ok So I am on  This Medicine,   Duragesic100ugh Oxy instant Realease 5mg  that’s all for pain.  Now I take Neurontin 3400mg day  celebrex  200mg day  Addreall  40mg a Day, Xanax XR 1mg  Lexapro 40mg day and Valium 10mg 4 daily or as needed Ambein 10 every night.   That  is it, Listen I been on all this 4 years none  Stop, I am very Dependent on my Pain Medication.  I been told I will be on OPIODS rest of life due to nerve pain and scars in back.   Ok If I want to make my  patch to absored faster  Is  that possoble  I will buy DMSO but I don’t want to use up all my Duragesuc.   I need to know    MIKE
—– Original Message —–
From: Patrick K. Kroupa
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2004 2:34 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] DMSO

On Jul 10, 2004, at 1:02 AM, CrookedEye420@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 7/10/2004 12:57:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> CallieMimosa@aol.com writes:
> I plan to do some more reading but do you know any creams or ointments
> that contain DMSO?
> I believe you can order it from chem supply houses but I don’t know of
> any products you can buy over the counter that contain it.

I haven’t read this thread, and thus have no opinion on what exactly it
is that you plan to do with the DMSO.  While you can certainly purchase
DMSO through any chemical supply house such as VWR … Pretty much any
health food store will also stock it.

The two most common/effective transdermal delivery mechanisms are, of
course, DMSO (dimethylsulfoxide) followed by IPM (isopropyl myristate).
IPM is usually marketed/mixed into products as a “penetration
enhancer,” whereas DMSO can make no such claim, but … works a fuckova
lot better.

It is not a problem to purchase DMSO.

Patrick

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] To Calliie – off the subject
Date: July 12, 2004 at 12:41:26 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Callie,

Glad to hear your gonna be a grandmother, and what a good one you will be.  I wish you the best.  Guess your talk with the kids woked out OK.  Sometimes a good talk, the truth and understanding can go a long way.  Life is short and it is nice to get certain things out of the way.  Look at all the support you have had.  See, everybody is somebody.  I know your happy as well as those on the forum that you have helped.  Myabe if our president….naw, he wouldn’t know the truth if it bit him in the ass.  I know, I know, this is not political, but a joke here and there never hurt.  Laughter can be the best medicine.  Sometimes you have to laugh to keep from crying.

Happy for ya,

– JIM

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com

From: “Charlie Wilkins” <chowlee@qwest.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] rootbark potency…
Date: July 12, 2004 at 12:15:20 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

crownofthorns@hushmail.com wrote:
Bro ibogaine is schedule 1 in the US. Nobody who legally sells it is
going to ship it into the
US.

That’s why I’m thinking about getting a P.O. Box in Canada.  I still have the obstacle of finding a reliable source to ship it to me … (sigh),

Charlie

From: “Mark Corcoran” <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] off topic personal news!!!!!
Date: July 12, 2004 at 12:05:22 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I haven’t mentioned that idea to Howard maybe because deep down I know what he’ll say and well… hey the possibility of a week of self rationalized, maybe even guilt free using sounds well. you know, good. But its been two weeks tonight since the last time I shot dope and I know that might not be a ton of time but it actually feels very good and I know in my heart of hearts I wouldn’t have this little bit of time away had I not known that I had found a “way out”.
I’ve heard that in Mexico if you are on Meth they give you Morphine for a few days before they give you your Ibo dose so well you know where my addicted mind went from there.
Anyone out there who can tell me if this is in fact me just looking for one last little guilt free run or does this in fact make sense if I can get them to start bringing me down on the meth maybe 5 every 4 days or so two weeks before.
As Howard said, its all experimental but you’d have to think a few days away from Meth has gotta be good. I’m all ears.
Thanks Callie and I’ll keep you posted.

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 11:23 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] off topic personal news!!!!!

In a message dated 7/11/2004 9:44:57 PM Central Daylight Time, mcorcoran27@hotmail.com writes:
maybe I’ll instead just buy 5 or 6 bundles
and try and get as much of the meth out of me as possible.

Howard or Patrick could answer this with past experience and I can’t but I will give you my opinion.
Methadone vs. Heroin, I don’t think it would matter which you did the last couple of days before Ibogaine treatment.

Personally I would not do the heroin. I am a ‘needle junkie’ as well as being physically addicted. It is VERY important that I stay as far away from injecting anything as I can!!
Hell, I used to get the rush when I seen the flash of blood in the syringe…..before any dope at all had been administered! It gets sicker than that too.

You have decided to break free of those chains……no need to try a new chain!

My opinion and history,
Callie

PS- I am excited for you! 8>)

From: “Michael Maxey” <mike2boys@msn.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] off topic personal news!!!!!
Date: July 12, 2004 at 12:07:59 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Callie Congrads,  Good news.  Group thanks for allowing me in  here    I guess my next email should be about why I came here.  I need Advice hard core help.   Anyway Callie  what 2 years from today.  mom can you watch babay.  can u babysit  LOL   grr. I have a 10 year old and a 7 year old both boys. Me and my Wife do are best. I am 32  wife Julie 31   I will write my Detail letter next Mike
—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 6:21 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] off topic personal news!!!!!

Callie wrote ” I’m going to be a grandma in Feb.”                  This has been a good week for news on the Mind Vox front. I just wish we could have gotten that bill passed.
Well, on to the next battle        Callie congrats!!!!!! May your grandchild have all of your many positive attributes. In other words   YOU ROCK      Randy

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fwd: yo![test]
Date: July 11, 2004 at 11:29:07 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

testing 1.2.3.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] test biatch
Date: July 11, 2004 at 11:28:00 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

1.2.3.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] off topic personal news!!!!!
Date: July 11, 2004 at 11:23:54 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/11/2004 9:44:57 PM Central Daylight Time, mcorcoran27@hotmail.com writes:
maybe I’ll instead just buy 5 or 6 bundles
and try and get as much of the meth out of me as possible.

Howard or Patrick could answer this with past experience and I can’t but I will give you my opinion.
Methadone vs. Heroin, I don’t think it would matter which you did the last couple of days before Ibogaine treatment.

Personally I would not do the heroin. I am a ‘needle junkie’ as well as being physically addicted. It is VERY important that I stay as far away from injecting anything as I can!!
Hell, I used to get the rush when I seen the flash of blood in the syringe…..before any dope at all had been administered! It gets sicker than that too.

You have decided to break free of those chains……no need to try a new chain!

My opinion and history,
Callie

PS- I am excited for you! 8>)

From: “Mark Corcoran” <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] off topic personal news!!!!!
Date: July 11, 2004 at 10:54:32 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

humm???
Three days was the morning.  My focus three days old.  My head,
it
landed to the sounds of cricket bows…  I am proud man
anyway…  Covered now
by three days…
Three ways was the morning.  Three lovers, in three ways.  We
knew when
she landed, three days she’d stay.  I am a proud man anyway…
Covered now by
three days…
We saw shadows of the morning light the shadows of the evening
sun till
the shadows and the light were one.  Shadows of the morning
light the shadows
of the evening sun till the shadows and the light were one…
True hunting is over.  No herds to follow.  Without game, men
prey on
each other.  The family weakens by the bite we swallow…
True leaders gone, of land and people.  We choose no kin but
adopted
strangers.  The family weakens by the length we travel…  All
of us with
wings…  All of us with wings…  All of us with wings!  All of
us with wings!
All of us with wings!  All of us with wings!
Erotic Jesus lays with his Marys.  Loves his Marys.  Bits of
puzzle,
hitting each other.  All now with wings!  “Oh my Marys!  Never
wonder…  Night
is shelter for nudity’s shiver…”  All now with wings…
—————————————————————————-

\\

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 10:11 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] off topic personal news!!!!!

not that I’ve ever heard of, but it is a nice thought.
I wasn’t aware he’d actually kicked anything, but hey, could be mistaken
there too.
I kinda thought, well, never mind what I thought. Jane’s is one of my all
time favorite bands.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Mark Corcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 5:04 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] off topic personal news!!!!!

I have a rather dumb question but does anyone know if Perry Ferrel from
Jane’s Addiction final kick his habit by using Ibogaine and is the song “3
days” about that?
The words to me sound like thats all it could be.
—– Original Message —–
From: UUSEAN@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 4:40 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] off topic personal news!!!!!

Hi Callie,

Nice to hear your good news.  I had some technical problems with the list
(my posts were bouncing) but that all seems better now.

Sean

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Mark Corcoran” <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] off topic personal news!!!!!
Date: July 11, 2004 at 10:43:36 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I read an article way back when where he talks about many overdoses and many
kicks and then I read something else about some trip that he took to North
Africa for “sprtiual inlighenment” so I don’t doubt it. Also if you look at
the inside cover of Ritual de lo Habitual there is a medical cabinet with
all these different strange medicnes and right in the middle is a bottle of
Methadone with David Navaro’s name on it. Which I thought was so cool at the
time when I think back on it. Wow its amazing how much you change it 12
years.

As for me, its a question of counting the days before my first dose. The
first weekend in August!!! I’m on 100 mils and I juist can’t wait to be free
from these liquid handcuffs. Anyway, I was thinking, as I sat here counting
the days as I mentioned, that if maybe I should ask my program to start
bringing me down as much as I can tolorate and then maybe those last five
days instead of drinking my meth, maybe I’ll instead just buy 5 or 6 bundles
and try and get as much of the meth out of me as possible. Would that help?
Any thoughts???
Thanks for any advice.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 10:11 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] off topic personal news!!!!!

not that I’ve ever heard of, but it is a nice thought.
I wasn’t aware he’d actually kicked anything, but hey, could be mistaken
there too.
I kinda thought, well, never mind what I thought. Jane’s is one of my all
time favorite bands.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Mark Corcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 5:04 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] off topic personal news!!!!!

I have a rather dumb question but does anyone know if Perry Ferrel from
Jane’s Addiction final kick his habit by using Ibogaine and is the song “3
days” about that?
The words to me sound like thats all it could be.
—– Original Message —–
From: UUSEAN@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 4:40 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] off topic personal news!!!!!

Hi Callie,

Nice to hear your good news.  I had some technical problems with the list
(my posts were bouncing) but that all seems better now.

Sean

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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[%]

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] off topic personal news!!!!!
Date: July 11, 2004 at 10:11:31 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

not that I’ve ever heard of, but it is a nice thought.
I wasn’t aware he’d actually kicked anything, but hey, could be mistaken
there too.
I kinda thought, well, never mind what I thought. Jane’s is one of my all
time favorite bands.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Mark Corcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 5:04 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] off topic personal news!!!!!

I have a rather dumb question but does anyone know if Perry Ferrel from
Jane’s Addiction final kick his habit by using Ibogaine and is the song “3
days” about that?
The words to me sound like thats all it could be.
—– Original Message —–
From: UUSEAN@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 4:40 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] off topic personal news!!!!!

Hi Callie,

Nice to hear your good news.  I had some technical problems with the list
(my posts were bouncing) but that all seems better now.

Sean

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Fwd: yo!
Date: July 11, 2004 at 9:57:51 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

🙂

I’m sure theres a lot of bringing 🙂

When will the SSDP be outing themselves?

Peace out and light a bowl
Curtis

On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 18:48:53 -0700 Sara Glatt <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:
Is there something to worry about?
When there is end there is bringing.

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Patrick K. Kroupa [mailto:digital@phantom.com]
Verzonden: maandag 12 juli 2004 3:41
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: [ibogaine] Fwd: yo!

The End Times are Officially Upon us.

Begin forwarded message:

From: Dana Beal <dana@phantom.com>
Date: July 11, 2004 9:29:54 PM EDT
To: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: yo!
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.606)

reply to yo yo
On Jul 11, 2004, at 9:19 PM, Patrick K. Kroupa wrote:

do0d@

/]=————————————————————-
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[%]
\]=———————————————————–
———-=[/

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
http://www.hushmail.com/services-messenger?l=434

Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
http://www.hushmail.com/about-affiliate?l=427

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Fwd: yo!
Date: July 11, 2004 at 9:48:53 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Is there something to worry about?
When there is end there is bringing.

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Patrick K. Kroupa [mailto:digital@phantom.com]
Verzonden: maandag 12 juli 2004 3:41
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: [ibogaine] Fwd: yo!

The End Times are Officially Upon us.

Begin forwarded message:

From: Dana Beal <dana@phantom.com>
Date: July 11, 2004 9:29:54 PM EDT
To: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: yo!
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.606)

reply to yo yo
On Jul 11, 2004, at 9:19 PM, Patrick K. Kroupa wrote:

do0d@

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: Patrick K. Kroupa <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fwd: yo!
Date: July 11, 2004 at 9:40:31 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The End Times are Officially Upon us.

Begin forwarded message:

From: Dana Beal <dana@phantom.com>
Date: July 11, 2004 9:29:54 PM EDT
To: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: yo!
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.606)

reply to yo yo
On Jul 11, 2004, at 9:19 PM, Patrick K. Kroupa wrote:

do0d@

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
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From: “Mark Corcoran” <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] off topic personal news!!!!!
Date: July 11, 2004 at 5:04:37 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I have a rather dumb question but does anyone know if Perry Ferrel from Jane’s Addiction final kick his habit by using Ibogaine and is the song “3 days” about that?
The words to me sound like thats all it could be.
—– Original Message —–
From: UUSEAN@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 4:40 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] off topic personal news!!!!!

Hi Callie,

Nice to hear your good news.  I had some technical problems with the list (my posts were bouncing) but that all seems better now.

Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] off topic personal news!!!!!
Date: July 11, 2004 at 4:40:47 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Callie,

Nice to hear your good news.  I had some technical problems with the list (my posts were bouncing) but that all seems better now.

Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] test
Date: July 11, 2004 at 4:28:55 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] (OT) Hannah’s repeat
Date: July 11, 2004 at 2:37:20 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/11/2004 11:35:09 AM Central Daylight Time, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:
Isit just me or is
everyone getting these repeats?

Not just you! I have gotten about 6 of the “just got home and had 350 e-mails” post! LMAO!
Poor Hannah! Maybe she has a sensitive trigger! Or gremlins!
Callie

From: iboga@ziplip.com <iboga@ziplip.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] of tropical new life
Date: July 11, 2004 at 12:36:05 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Callie: that’s awesome.  I 2nd “May your grandchild have all of your many positive attributes.”
Randy: that’s awesome.
—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: 11 Jul 04, 3:22 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] off topic personal news!!!!!
Callie wrote ” I’m going to be a grandma in Feb.”                  This has been a good week for news on the Mind Vox front. I just wish we could have gotten that bill passed.
Well, on to the next battle        Callie congrats!!!!!! May your grandchild have all of your many positive attributes. In other words   YOU ROCK      Randy
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] (OT) Re: [ibogaine] Price on Ibogaine treatment
Date: July 11, 2004 at 12:34:29 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

has the whole “hannah’s email seems to be in a really weird mood” topic been
discussed yet? Hannah, why is it that I’m now getting repeated replies outta
you?
You’ve got gremlins or something, or Mindvox does. Isit just me or is
everyone getting these repeats?
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2004 8:39 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] (OT) Re: [ibogaine] Price on Ibogaine treatment

Preston,

Hiya!  I’ve been away for a week and just came home to 350+ emails!!!

As to the receipt thing-its a pain in the ass but I don’t know anything
about computers and I don’t know how to turn it off!  I’m really sorry if
it
was a pain-believe me its worse this end!  I use Outlook Express if anyone
could quickly tell me how to turn it off?  Else I’ll ask my friends n hold
off sending anymore messages til I’ve switched it off.

Sorry again, hope you’re feeling happier today!  🙂
LOL Hannah

Oh and did I have a heading ‘Adam’?  If so it was a mistake…sorry again
(wince!)

….eek!  Now you’ll get a receipt thingy for this message….
—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 3:09 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] (OT) Re: [ibogaine] Price on Ibogaine treatment

Hi Hannah
Out of curiosity and in fairly good cheer I would like to ask you,
Why
is your mail set to get a receipt from other people upon their getting
your
email? What is the purpose of that feature and why would anyone use it?
Just curious here, as I myself have never once ok’d the sending of one
of
those receipts to anyone at all ever, and have always wondered why
people
would bother setting that feature on their email unless it was a
specific
email to a specific person. But each and every email? Egad!
Seriously, I’m a little grouchy and befuddled feeling this morning,
trying to shake off the cobwebs before going to jam this afternoon, so I
apologize up front if I sound snippy, but I would like to know why you
yourself have that setting set in your email.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Hannah Clay
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 6:06 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Price on Ibogaine treatment

“Whenever I came out of a meeting I had a stronger craving than ever.”

Totally!  Same for me too.  I’d go to NA with the best intentions n come
out
not being able to get H off my mind, just ‘needing a hit’!

—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 2:32 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Price on Ibogaine treatment

Hi Julian,

Thank you for the kind words.  Log in next week and I will be babbleing
about how they used to hang witches years ago.  Speaking of witches, Al
Capone, Luchanno and Meyer Lanskie and the mafia boys sold alcohol (and
killed people too) but they never sold to a 10 year old kid.  Yea, they
were
rough and tough and killers but still moral enough to leave the kids
alone.
Something the gangsters of today should learn.  OK, all done – LOL.  Ya
all
have a nice weekend.

Sapphirestardus@aol.com wrote:
Jim you couldn’t babble too much, you can’t babble enough when it comes
to
this issue. I mean i go over this shit in my head every single day! I’m
sure
I repeat myself with some people when I discuss this shit BUT it really
is
sickening the way a nation as great as we can be and have been, is so
fucked
up when it comes to certain moral issues. Unfortunately we have been
this
way throughout history. Human beings  generally speaking just haven’t
learned that you can’t litigate moral issues. We just can’t let it be.
There
are countless examples of severe repercussions from acting the way we do
but
history keeps repeating itself because we refuse to learn! You just keep
on
‘babbling’. I LOVE IT!!

Regards,

Julian

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I would like to unsubscribe, please advise
Date: July 11, 2004 at 11:52:40 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Here you go! Hate to see anyone unsubscribe tho!
Peace to ya!
Callie

For help and a description of available commands, send a message to:
<ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>

To subscribe to the list, send a message to:
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To remove your address from the list, just send a message to
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you can also send a message to:
<ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] test…….
Date: July 11, 2004 at 11:49:42 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Randy, Very cool news! I am so happy for you!
Hell, I thought you were suicidal! LMAO!!! I see things so black/white sometimes! I forget everyone is not as dramatic as me!
I can’t wait to see how it goes!
Callie

From: Aktionman22@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] rootbark potency…
Date: July 11, 2004 at 10:08:47 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/11/04 8:33:20 AM, jimhadey3@yahoo.com writes:

Hi Curtis,

 

Thanks for the info.  $2000 a gram in SF, damn.  I was hoping there was a place maybe in Canada which I live close to like a health food store or whatever.  I really would not want to give a drug dealer $300 and hope I don’t get ripped off far less $2000.  Yep, the drug laws make some people rich.

 

Thanks again for the info.

 

– JIM

jim………
get ahold of eric taub, or cut a deal with the mexico clinic ,or go to sara’s.  just quit whinning about the $ it costs for an ibo session. trust me……..it’s nothing u can take at home  by urself.  its not clarol hair dye….one minute old fart, the next….ravishing beauty!!!!
just because the hlc only cocts $300. doesnt mean that’s what u should pay to get sprung. i know………i’ve been sprung. 1 weekend an addict ( 24 yrs)………..the next week, a happy human (6 yrs down the road….. thanx eric) !!!!!!!
allright all u whinning procrastinators (i dont have spell check!)…..i wanna hear a collective
POP  sound comming from u!!!!!! (the POP  is the sound of yer collective heads commin outta yer collective ass!!!!)
shit……..u scam HOWMUCH? a day on  scoring dope & cant see the forrest thru the trees enough to wrangle an ibo treatment with people who will help…..u just wanna complain about the cost, how far, patrick, mash, hlc vs rootbark, bla-bla, bla-bla…..whine!!!! whine!!!! whine!!!!
do sumpthin with yer lives…..get off the shit & get on with it!
thanx……i needed to get this offa me chest!
much luv to all
marcus

From: Ijodamage@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] I would like to unsubscribe, please advise
Date: July 11, 2004 at 9:58:01 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

 

From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] rootbark potency…
Date: July 11, 2004 at 9:32:23 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Curtis,

Thanks for the info.  $2000 a gram in SF, damn.  I was hoping there was a place maybe in Canada which I live close to like a health food store or whatever.  I really would not want to give a drug dealer $300 and hope I don’t get ripped off far less $2000.  Yep, the drug laws make some people rich.

Thanks again for the info.

– JIM

crownofthorns@hushmail.com wrote:
Bro ibogaine is schedule 1 in the US. Nobody who legally sells it is
going to ship it into the
US. If you need to detox and kick a 40 year habit then you will probably
need more then 1
gram and more then $300.

People in the US do have it but then you are dealing with drug dealers
and its like any other
drug deal for a schedule 1 substance. You are going to be paying a lot
more then $300 a
gram for it. It goes for as much as $2000 a gram in San Fran for the
HCL. You’d be much
better off going somewhere else.

Peace out and don’t kill yourself
Curtis

On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 14:28:08 -0700 Jim Hadey wrote:
>Hi All,
>
>Does anyone know a place that will just sell the Igogaine HCL.
>Just sell it to ya and say goodby, no questions asked. I tried writing
>to Mexican pharmacies but most pharmacies are not on the net. All
>you get are the commercial detox centers and a few Mexican detox
>centers. I can not afford a detox center, I would rather take my
>chances in my own home. Believe me, it is no more dangerous than
>using and going what I am going through now. I am sick and tired
>of being sick and tired. I want to be clean so bad. I have been
>fighting this for close to 40 years. Any help would be appreciated
>and held in confidence. Feel free to write to me at yahoo if you
>want. If the price tag is like $300 for the Ibogaine it would have
>to be at the begining of the month when I get my disability. Usually
>there is more more month left over than money. I got the hunch I
>am not the only one who feels like this.
>
>Thanks for any help,
>
> – JIM
>
>HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:
>
>In a message dated 7/10/04 11:40:15 AM, Sapphirestardus@aol.com
>writes:
>
>>Thanks Howard. I shouldn’t have even asked the question about cost
>because
>>as you pointed out, it’s not about the product but rather the service.
>The
>>expertise provided. It is definitely worth it as we have discussed
>last
>>week and I intend to experience it as soon as my settlement is
>settled. The
>other
>>question I had was about the availability of the root and HCL the
>other
>>person mentiomed. He had said something about it being available
>from Ethno
>but
>>a few people had said they are not reliable. Where is this (and
>other
>products)
>>available on the market? I thought it would be very difficult to
>obtain
>>due to it’s legal status. Please advise.. Thank you.
>
>Julian,
>
>Ibogaine is only restricted in the US, Sweden, Switzerland, Belgium
>and
>Denmark (shame on the Danish government) but, not in Canada or Mexico
>or most
>countries. Sources of ibogaine therapy are listed at
>http://www.ibogaine.co.uk/treatment.htm – look under treatment options.
>
>Good luck,
>
>Howard
>
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>
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From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] off topic personal news!!!!!
Date: July 11, 2004 at 7:53:47 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Congratulations, Grandma to be!!  Little babies are wonderful,
especially when they’re your grandkids.

ann
—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2004 11:15 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] off topic personal news!!!!!

I AM GOING TO BE A GRANDMA IN FEBRUARY!!!!!!
Callie

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] off topic personal news!!!!!
Date: July 11, 2004 at 6:21:55 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Callie wrote ” I’m going to be a grandma in Feb.”                  This has been a good week for news on the Mind Vox front. I just wish we could have gotten that bill passed.
Well, on to the next battle        Callie congrats!!!!!! May your grandchild have all of your many positive attributes. In other words   YOU ROCK      Randy

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] test…….
Date: July 11, 2004 at 6:08:02 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Callie,     I sure didn’t mean to freak anybody out……. well, maybe a little but in a good way,  he he he  What I meant by that post was that I am going to get Ibogaine treatment in the not so distant future and I am ecstatic!!!!!!!  Sorry for acting like a freak, I tend to over react, big ups, big downs, but damn this feels good. I just gotta keep an open mind and handle what comes next. Due to constraints at home I have to wait a couple of months, but its all worked out and I have a date to look forward to. I see a huge light at the end of the tunnel. LOL  It just keeps changing colors and smells really weird. Is there cobwebs on my face?
Randy

From: Jon Ludlam <seraphina@compuserve.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] HEANTOS
Date: July 11, 2004 at 4:36:25 AM EDT
To: “INTERNET:ibogaine@mindvox.com” <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Message text written by INTERNET:ibogaine@mindvox.com
Dear subscribers,

It might be a little bit off topic but there is another aternative detox
method from ibogaine called HEANTOS. It is a herbal treatment
administered in special clinics in Vietnam.
Does anyone of you have further information about this heantos-thing?
Best would be the name/(email) address or phone number of a clinic or
doctor over there.

Thank you

Claus<

Claus,
Howard Lotsof has had this covered since 1997 as best I can tell. Here is
the URL: http://www.ibogaine.org/heantos.html

Respectfully Yours,

Jon Ludlam

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From: Jochner@t-online.de (Claus Jochner)
Subject: [ibogaine] HEANTOS
Date: July 11, 2004 at 4:15:58 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear subscribers,

It might be a little bit off topic but there is another aternative detox method from ibogaine called HEANTOS. It is a herbal treatment administered in special clinics in Vietnam.
Does anyone of you have further information about this heantos-thing? Best would be the name/(email) address or phone number of a clinic or doctor over there.

Thank you

Claus

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] off topic personal news!!!!!
Date: July 10, 2004 at 11:37:56 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/10/04 10:16:42 PM, CallieMimosa@aol.com writes:

I AM GOING TO BE A GRANDMA IN  FEBRUARY!!!!!!

Great news callie.

Howard

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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Jenks article
Date: July 10, 2004 at 11:28:13 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Your right. I don’t know what I’m talking about with chemistry either.
Jenks is here and has posted before, maybe after seeing his name 5
times in the title of messages he’ll reply 😉

.:vector:.

— Nowwarat@aol.com wrote:

In the Jenks article July 31 2001 I don’t see a reference to voacanga

not being suitable to convert to ibogaine.On the contrary , he
appears
to be hopeful the find an inexpensive way for researchers and health
providers to find it.

Nowwarat

__________________________________
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From: Nowwarat@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Jeckins article
Date: July 10, 2004 at 11:23:34 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In the Jenks article July 31 2001 I don’t see a reference to voacanga not being suitable to convert to ibogaine.On the contrary , he appears to be hopeful the find an inexpensive way for researchers and health providers to find it.

Nowwarat

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] off topic personal news!!!!!
Date: July 10, 2004 at 11:15:54 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I AM GOING TO BE A GRANDMA IN FEBRUARY!!!!!!
Callie

From: Nowwarat@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Jenks report
Date: July 10, 2004 at 11:13:35 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m not a scientist( my eyes glaze over at technical papers) but as I read the article he first gives credit to Howard and his patent. He then says that according to other patents VTA and VPTA HCL are inconsistent and have a poor recovery.

However, he then describes what he says is a simple method ( to use in Africa ) that he found successful for both iboga and voacanga. From 1 Kg. of vaocanga he recovers12.111 g of VPTA HCL and I believe 75 g of VTA before that. He did not discuss converting it to active ingredients of the iboga plant. He did mention the possibility of it as a economical way to help people and not destroy the iboga plants. Perhaps I misread the article as I mentioned, my eyes glaze over when I read it and hardly understood it.

Nowwarat

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] chemistry
Date: July 10, 2004 at 11:12:15 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

If your talking about Chris Jenks simplified ibogaine extraction with
vingegar

http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/Articles.html

I think that is the simple version. If you want complex try to read
anything shulgin wrote 😉

In the first fw paras he does say it didn’t work out very well.

.:vector:.

— HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 7/10/04 9:32:18 PM, Nowwarat@aol.com writes:

<< You see the link to that chemistry guide on how to use vinegar
and
simple
tools to make it from the Voacanga. But to me it still wasn’t simple

enough.
I’d like to see it rewritten in laypersons language for dummies./ >>

Maybe I missed something but, didn’t the author report that his
attempt
to
follow the patent for converting voacangine to ibogaine was generally

not
successful.

That is not to say that a good laboratory cannot do it up right.

Howard

__________________________________
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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] chemistry
Date: July 10, 2004 at 10:40:04 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/10/04 9:32:18 PM, Nowwarat@aol.com writes:

<< You see the link to that chemistry guide on how to use vinegar  and
simple
tools to make it from the Voacanga. But to me it still wasn’t simple  enough.
I’d like to see it rewritten in laypersons language for dummies./ >>

Maybe I missed something but, didn’t the author report that his attempt to
follow the patent for converting voacangine to ibogaine was generally not
successful.

That is not to say that a good laboratory cannot do it up right.

Howard

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From: Nowwarat@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] chemistry
Date: July 10, 2004 at 10:31:28 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jim,

You see the link to that chemistry guide on how to use vinegar  and simple tools to make it from the Voacanga. But to me it still wasn’t simple enough. I’d like to see it rewritten in laypersons language for dummies./

Nowwarat

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] test…….
Date: July 10, 2004 at 9:24:07 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/10/2004 3:10:50 PM Central Daylight Time, BiscuitBoy714@aol.com writes:
I’m going to visit my ancesters finally. 1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111    split open the head

BBoy…..you okay?? I am confused by your post and kind of worried. How are you going to visit ancestors?
Write back please!
Callie

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] unsubcribe
Date: July 10, 2004 at 9:21:40 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/10/2004 3:20:39 PM Central Daylight Time, korlav@hotmail.com writes:
i need info on how to unsubcribe. PLEASE!

For list of commands mail addy is…
For help and a description of available commands, send a message to:
<ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>

Callie

From: Patrick K. Kroupa <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Obtaining Ibogaine (in America) — READ THIS
Date: July 10, 2004 at 6:47:38 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

As Curtis mentioned, ibogaine is a schedule I substance in the United States.  No it really doesn’t belong there.  And yes, the whole “War on Drugs,” is a fucking bad joke; except, having spent most of my life at the receiving end of it … I’m not very amused.

Being sprung and broke sucks.  There are a lotta people who need help.  What everybody does off this list is really not my bid’ness, dunno, doan’ wanna know, don’t care.

HOWEVER … just, like, so you have awareness of this:  When people send out email asking you to get them ibogaine.  What they are doing is soliciting you to commit a felony — actually, a series of felonies — and enter into a conspiracy with them.

If anybody wants to fuck with you, they will have no trouble tossing another half a dozen charges into that picture.

This is an <OPEN> and <PUBlIC> List.  While a very small subset of the total population here are active participants in the conversations which take place … It has over 5,000 people reading it at the present time.

I *DO NOT KNOW* who the vast majority of them are.  I *DO KNOW* that a variety of scientists, doctors, legislators AND law-enforcement personnel from a neat collection of three-letter acronyms ARE READING THIS LIST.

If you do stupid shit, then it’s entirely possible that you’re gonna have an entire brand new set of problems to deal with — in addition to being sprung.

To reiterate: I don’t care what anybody does outside the context of this list.  I simply don’t want to know about it.  God bless and good luck.  But KEEP IN MIND that this is NOT *NOT* — N O T — the magical, secret, special clubhouse which nobody else knows about.

Thank you,

Patrick

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From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] rootbark potency…
Date: July 10, 2004 at 6:10:30 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Bro ibogaine is schedule 1 in the US. Nobody who legally sells it is
going to ship it into the
US. If you need to detox and kick a 40 year habit then you will probably
need more then 1
gram and more then $300.

People in the US do have it but then you are dealing with drug dealers
and its like any other
drug deal for a schedule 1 substance. You are going to be paying a lot
more then $300 a
gram for it. It goes for as much as $2000 a gram in San Fran for the
HCL. You’d be much
better off going somewhere else.

Peace out and don’t kill yourself
Curtis

On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 14:28:08 -0700 Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi All,

Does anyone know a place that will just sell the Igogaine HCL.
Just sell it to ya and say goodby, no questions asked.  I tried writing
to Mexican pharmacies but most pharmacies are not on the net.  All
you get are the commercial detox centers and a few Mexican detox
centers.  I can not afford a detox center, I would rather take my
chances in my own home.  Believe me, it is no more dangerous than
using and going what I am going through now.  I am sick and tired
of being sick and tired.  I want to be clean so bad.  I have been
fighting this for close to 40 years.  Any help would be appreciated
and held in confidence.  Feel free to write to me at yahoo if you
want.  If the price tag is like $300 for the Ibogaine it would have
to be at the begining of the month when I get my disability.  Usually
there is more more month left over than money.  I got the hunch I
am not the only one who feels like this.

Thanks for any help,

– JIM

HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 7/10/04 11:40:15 AM, Sapphirestardus@aol.com
writes:

Thanks Howard. I shouldn’t have even asked the question about cost
because
as you pointed out, it’s not about the product but rather the service.
The
expertise provided. It is definitely worth it as we have discussed
last
week and I intend to experience it as soon as my settlement is
settled. The
other
question I had was about the availability of the root and HCL the
other
person mentiomed. He had said something about it being available
from Ethno
but
a few people had said they are not reliable. Where is this (and
other
products)
available on the market? I thought it would be very difficult to
obtain
due to it’s legal status. Please advise.. Thank you.

Julian,

Ibogaine is only restricted in the US, Sweden, Switzerland, Belgium
and
Denmark (shame on the Danish government) but, not in Canada or Mexico
or most
countries. Sources of ibogaine therapy are listed at
http://www.ibogaine.co.uk/treatment.htm – look under treatment options.

Good luck,

Howard

/]=————————————————————-
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[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]
\]=————————————————————-
——–=[/

———————————
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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] rootbark potency…
Date: July 10, 2004 at 5:28:08 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi All,

Does anyone know a place that will just sell the Igogaine HCL.  Just sell it to ya and say goodby, no questions asked.  I tried writing to Mexican pharmacies but most pharmacies are not on the net.  All you get are the commercial detox centers and a few Mexican detox centers.  I can not afford a detox center, I would rather take my chances in my own home.  Believe me, it is no more dangerous than using and going what I am going through now.  I am sick and tired of being sick and tired.  I want to be clean so bad.  I have been fighting this for close to 40 years.  Any help would be appreciated and held in confidence.  Feel free to write to me at yahoo if you want.  If the price tag is like $300 for the Ibogaine it would have to be at the begining of the month when I get my disability.  Usually there is more more month left over than money.  I got the hunch I am not the only one who feels like this.

Thanks for any help,

– JIM

HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 7/10/04 11:40:15 AM, Sapphirestardus@aol.com writes:

>Thanks Howard. I shouldn’t have even asked the question about cost because
>as you pointed out, it’s not about the product but rather the service. The
>expertise provided. It is definitely worth it as we have discussed last
>week and I intend to experience it as soon as my settlement is settled. The
other
>question I had was about the availability of the root and HCL the other
>person mentiomed. He had said something about it being available from Ethno
but
>a few people had said they are not reliable. Where is this (and other
products)
>available on the market? I thought it would be very difficult to obtain
>due to it’s legal status. Please advise.. Thank you.

Julian,

Ibogaine is only restricted in the US, Sweden, Switzerland, Belgium and
Denmark (shame on the Danish government) but, not in Canada or Mexico or most
countries. Sources of ibogaine therapy are listed at
http://www.ibogaine.co.uk/treatment.htm – look under treatment options.

Good luck,

Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – 100MB free storage!

From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] unsubcribe
Date: July 10, 2004 at 5:09:48 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Cory,

For some reason a lot of people seem to have this problem.  I never used hotmail but I know that with Yahoo there is a way to filter it out or block it.  In fact, with Yahoo you could just mark it spam and it will be automatically blocked.  Maybe hotmail has a similar feature.

– JIM

Cory Laverdure <korlav@hotmail.com> wrote:
i need info on how to unsubcribe. PLEASE!

FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

Do you Yahoo!?
Read only the mail you want – Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.

From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] test…….
Date: July 10, 2004 at 4:20:42 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Congratulations bro! It is a life changing experience.

Peace out
Curtis

On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 13:10:03 -0700 BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:
I’m going to visit my ancesters finally.
1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111    split
open the head

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Cory Laverdure” <korlav@hotmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] unsubcribe
Date: July 10, 2004 at 4:19:48 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: korlav@hotmail.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

i need info on how to unsubcribe. PLEASE!

FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: don cohen <newvaluemarketing@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] rootbark potency…
Date: July 10, 2004 at 4:10:05 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

thats because your stuck in the us of a like I am.
Near any other country you can order ibogaine and do
what you want. The rest of it is all the same thing.
there’s mashland where no information is ever shared
with anyone except whats your credit rating and can
you pay 15 thousand, 18 thousand? there’s her son aka
patrick who has dosed what is it 10 or 15 times now
patrick? who sure isnt paying 15 thousand for it and
is high priest in the worlds biggest ibogaine
dealership sorry church of ibogaine, ask him for help
and tell him how desperete you are and all you get is
he doesn’t know anything about anything and go on the
internet and search for the word ibogaine, you have
mexico asking for $4500 now for $300 worth of ibogaine
what the etxra $4000 is for I dont know since all
their costs are in mexico which costs almost nothing,
forget those two if you want the dirt on either one
all you need to do is call up healing visions and mash
will be glad to spend a hour talking shit about
mexico, you call mexico they’ll be happy to tell you
why they are there to help anyone who gives them that
much money and will give it to people for $1000 if
they really need it. haven’t found one person who ever
paid that. canada is free if you want to wait half a
year or isn’t open to americans anymore. then last of
all the people who are so helpful and want to tell you
where to dose forget to say they are always being paid
for that by whatever place they drive people to which
is illegal.
everybody only wants to help. unless they don’t know
anything about it and have amnesia. good luck.
its a business like any other business, no difference.
except everyone is only there to help people and
doesn’tcare about the money.

— Sapphirestardus@aol.com wrote:
Thanks Howard. I shouldn’t have even asked the
question about cost
because as you pointed out, it’s not about the
product but rather the
service. The expertise provided. It is definitely
worth it as we have
discussed last week and 營 intend to experience it
as soon as my
settlement is settled. The other question I had was
about the
availability of the root and HCL the other person
mentiomed. He had
said something about it being available from Ethno
but a few people had
said they are not reliable. Where is this (and other
products)
available on the market? I thought it would be very
difficult to obtain
due to it’s legal status. Please advise.. Thank you.

牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋

牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋Julian

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] test…….
Date: July 10, 2004 at 4:10:03 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m going to visit my ancesters finally. 1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111    split open the head

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] rootbark potency…
Date: July 10, 2004 at 1:35:08 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/10/04 11:40:15 AM, Sapphirestardus@aol.com writes:

Thanks Howard. I shouldn’t have even asked the question about cost because
as you pointed out, it’s not about the product but rather the service. The
expertise provided. It is definitely worth it as we have discussed last
week and  I intend to experience it as soon as my settlement is settled. The
other
question I had was about the availability of the root and HCL the other
person mentiomed. He had said something about it being available from Ethno
but
a few people had said they are not reliable. Where is this (and other
products)
available on the market? I thought it would be very difficult to obtain
due to it’s legal status. Please advise.. Thank you.

Julian,

Ibogaine is only restricted in the US, Sweden, Switzerland, Belgium and
Denmark (shame on the Danish government) but, not in Canada or Mexico or most
countries.  Sources of ibogaine therapy are listed at
http://www.ibogaine.co.uk/treatment.htm – look under treatment options.

Good luck,

Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] rootbark potency…
Date: July 10, 2004 at 12:39:30 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks Howard. I shouldn’t have even asked the question about cost because as you pointed out, it’s not about the product but rather the service. The expertise provided. It is definitely worth it as we have discussed last week and  I intend to experience it as soon as my settlement is settled. The other question I had was about the availability of the root and HCL the other person mentiomed. He had said something about it being available from Ethno but a few people had said they are not reliable. Where is this (and other products) available on the market? I thought it would be very difficult to obtain due to it’s legal status. Please advise.. Thank you.
Julian

From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] (OT) Re: [ibogaine] Price on Ibogaine treatment
Date: July 10, 2004 at 8:39:33 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston,

Hiya!  I’ve been away for a week and just came home to 350+ emails!!!

As to the receipt thing-its a pain in the ass but I don’t know anything
about computers and I don’t know how to turn it off!  I’m really sorry if it
was a pain-believe me its worse this end!  I use Outlook Express if anyone
could quickly tell me how to turn it off?  Else I’ll ask my friends n hold
off sending anymore messages til I’ve switched it off.

Sorry again, hope you’re feeling happier today!  🙂
LOL Hannah

Oh and did I have a heading ‘Adam’?  If so it was a mistake…sorry again
(wince!)

….eek!  Now you’ll get a receipt thingy for this message….
—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 3:09 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] (OT) Re: [ibogaine] Price on Ibogaine treatment

Hi Hannah
Out of curiosity and in fairly good cheer I would like to ask you, Why
is your mail set to get a receipt from other people upon their getting
your
email? What is the purpose of that feature and why would anyone use it?
Just curious here, as I myself have never once ok’d the sending of one of
those receipts to anyone at all ever, and have always wondered why people
would bother setting that feature on their email unless it was a specific
email to a specific person. But each and every email? Egad!
Seriously, I’m a little grouchy and befuddled feeling this morning,
trying to shake off the cobwebs before going to jam this afternoon, so I
apologize up front if I sound snippy, but I would like to know why you
yourself have that setting set in your email.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Hannah Clay
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 6:06 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Price on Ibogaine treatment

“Whenever I came out of a meeting I had a stronger craving than ever.”

Totally!  Same for me too.  I’d go to NA with the best intentions n come
out
not being able to get H off my mind, just ‘needing a hit’!

—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 2:32 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Price on Ibogaine treatment

Hi Julian,

Thank you for the kind words.  Log in next week and I will be babbleing
about how they used to hang witches years ago.  Speaking of witches, Al
Capone, Luchanno and Meyer Lanskie and the mafia boys sold alcohol (and
killed people too) but they never sold to a 10 year old kid.  Yea, they
were
rough and tough and killers but still moral enough to leave the kids
alone.
Something the gangsters of today should learn.  OK, all done – LOL.  Ya
all
have a nice weekend.

Sapphirestardus@aol.com wrote:
Jim you couldn’t babble too much, you can’t babble enough when it comes to
this issue. I mean i go over this shit in my head every single day! I’m
sure
I repeat myself with some people when I discuss this shit BUT it really is
sickening the way a nation as great as we can be and have been, is so
fucked
up when it comes to certain moral issues. Unfortunately we have been this
way throughout history. Human beings  generally speaking just haven’t
learned that you can’t litigate moral issues. We just can’t let it be.
There
are countless examples of severe repercussions from acting the way we do
but
history keeps repeating itself because we refuse to learn! You just keep
on
‘babbling’. I LOVE IT!!

Regards,

Julian

Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – Send 10MB messages!

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Hannah Clay” <spaglet@hotmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Thankyou!
Date: July 10, 2004 at 11:54:17 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey thanks for that,hopefully there’ll be no more receipts!  Oh and somehow I posted that last message loads of times-I have no idea how I did it-sorry (again!)

Hannah
—– Original Message —–
From: CrookedEye420@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 7:59 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe

In a message dated 7/1/2004 2:24:15 AM Eastern Daylight Time, gregdouglass@covad.net writes:
Ten thousand bucks ?!? Contact the Ibogaine Association directly to check that: they aren’t anywhere near that expensive, unless their rates have gone up triple since I did the treatment just over a year ago! I should think that between a plane ticket to San Diego and the five-day stay in Mexico that it would still be much less than going to Holland.
But…just out of curiosity…does anyone know how much the treatment at the Holland facility runs?
Greg Douglass
It cost me about $2,300 for my whole trip to A’dam and the Iboga/Cannabis/mushroom tea, plus my stay and food.  That includes the roundtrip plane tickets, too!  It’s not a medical facility but Sara can take care of you better than some nurse who never experienced the Iboga, IMO.
Shawn

From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] (OT) Re: [ibogaine] Price on Ibogaine treatment
Date: July 10, 2004 at 8:39:33 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston,

Hiya!  I’ve been away for a week and just came home to 350+ emails!!!

As to the receipt thing-its a pain in the ass but I don’t know anything
about computers and I don’t know how to turn it off!  I’m really sorry if it
was a pain-believe me its worse this end!  I use Outlook Express if anyone
could quickly tell me how to turn it off?  Else I’ll ask my friends n hold
off sending anymore messages til I’ve switched it off.

Sorry again, hope you’re feeling happier today!  🙂
LOL Hannah

Oh and did I have a heading ‘Adam’?  If so it was a mistake…sorry again
(wince!)

….eek!  Now you’ll get a receipt thingy for this message….
—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 3:09 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] (OT) Re: [ibogaine] Price on Ibogaine treatment

Hi Hannah
Out of curiosity and in fairly good cheer I would like to ask you, Why
is your mail set to get a receipt from other people upon their getting
your
email? What is the purpose of that feature and why would anyone use it?
Just curious here, as I myself have never once ok’d the sending of one of
those receipts to anyone at all ever, and have always wondered why people
would bother setting that feature on their email unless it was a specific
email to a specific person. But each and every email? Egad!
Seriously, I’m a little grouchy and befuddled feeling this morning,
trying to shake off the cobwebs before going to jam this afternoon, so I
apologize up front if I sound snippy, but I would like to know why you
yourself have that setting set in your email.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Hannah Clay
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 6:06 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Price on Ibogaine treatment

“Whenever I came out of a meeting I had a stronger craving than ever.”

Totally!  Same for me too.  I’d go to NA with the best intentions n come
out
not being able to get H off my mind, just ‘needing a hit’!

—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 2:32 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Price on Ibogaine treatment

Hi Julian,

Thank you for the kind words.  Log in next week and I will be babbleing
about how they used to hang witches years ago.  Speaking of witches, Al
Capone, Luchanno and Meyer Lanskie and the mafia boys sold alcohol (and
killed people too) but they never sold to a 10 year old kid.  Yea, they
were
rough and tough and killers but still moral enough to leave the kids
alone.
Something the gangsters of today should learn.  OK, all done – LOL.  Ya
all
have a nice weekend.

Sapphirestardus@aol.com wrote:
Jim you couldn’t babble too much, you can’t babble enough when it comes to
this issue. I mean i go over this shit in my head every single day! I’m
sure
I repeat myself with some people when I discuss this shit BUT it really is
sickening the way a nation as great as we can be and have been, is so
fucked
up when it comes to certain moral issues. Unfortunately we have been this
way throughout history. Human beings  generally speaking just haven’t
learned that you can’t litigate moral issues. We just can’t let it be.
There
are countless examples of severe repercussions from acting the way we do
but
history keeps repeating itself because we refuse to learn! You just keep
on
‘babbling’. I LOVE IT!!

Regards,

Julian

Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – Send 10MB messages!

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] (OT) Re: [ibogaine] Price on Ibogaine treatment
Date: July 10, 2004 at 8:39:33 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston,

Hiya!  I’ve been away for a week and just came home to 350+ emails!!!

As to the receipt thing-its a pain in the ass but I don’t know anything
about computers and I don’t know how to turn it off!  I’m really sorry if it
was a pain-believe me its worse this end!  I use Outlook Express if anyone
could quickly tell me how to turn it off?  Else I’ll ask my friends n hold
off sending anymore messages til I’ve switched it off.

Sorry again, hope you’re feeling happier today!  🙂
LOL Hannah

Oh and did I have a heading ‘Adam’?  If so it was a mistake…sorry again
(wince!)

….eek!  Now you’ll get a receipt thingy for this message….
—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 3:09 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] (OT) Re: [ibogaine] Price on Ibogaine treatment

Hi Hannah
Out of curiosity and in fairly good cheer I would like to ask you, Why
is your mail set to get a receipt from other people upon their getting
your
email? What is the purpose of that feature and why would anyone use it?
Just curious here, as I myself have never once ok’d the sending of one of
those receipts to anyone at all ever, and have always wondered why people
would bother setting that feature on their email unless it was a specific
email to a specific person. But each and every email? Egad!
Seriously, I’m a little grouchy and befuddled feeling this morning,
trying to shake off the cobwebs before going to jam this afternoon, so I
apologize up front if I sound snippy, but I would like to know why you
yourself have that setting set in your email.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Hannah Clay
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 6:06 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Price on Ibogaine treatment

“Whenever I came out of a meeting I had a stronger craving than ever.”

Totally!  Same for me too.  I’d go to NA with the best intentions n come
out
not being able to get H off my mind, just ‘needing a hit’!

—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 2:32 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Price on Ibogaine treatment

Hi Julian,

Thank you for the kind words.  Log in next week and I will be babbleing
about how they used to hang witches years ago.  Speaking of witches, Al
Capone, Luchanno and Meyer Lanskie and the mafia boys sold alcohol (and
killed people too) but they never sold to a 10 year old kid.  Yea, they
were
rough and tough and killers but still moral enough to leave the kids
alone.
Something the gangsters of today should learn.  OK, all done – LOL.  Ya
all
have a nice weekend.

Sapphirestardus@aol.com wrote:
Jim you couldn’t babble too much, you can’t babble enough when it comes to
this issue. I mean i go over this shit in my head every single day! I’m
sure
I repeat myself with some people when I discuss this shit BUT it really is
sickening the way a nation as great as we can be and have been, is so
fucked
up when it comes to certain moral issues. Unfortunately we have been this
way throughout history. Human beings  generally speaking just haven’t
learned that you can’t litigate moral issues. We just can’t let it be.
There
are countless examples of severe repercussions from acting the way we do
but
history keeps repeating itself because we refuse to learn! You just keep
on
‘babbling’. I LOVE IT!!

Regards,

Julian

Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – Send 10MB messages!

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] test…….
Date: July 10, 2004 at 10:00:00 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I can’t get a certain e-mail to show up on Iboga list.
This is a test! Sorry!
Callie

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] DMSO source
Date: July 10, 2004 at 9:56:23 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

DMSO / Dimethylsulfoxide – 8 fl. oz., 99.9% Pure Concentrate

Here it is! I answered my own question! lol!
Callie

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] DMSO source
Date: July 10, 2004 at 9:49:28 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

DMSO / Dimethylsulfoxide – 8 fl. oz., 99.9% Pure Concentrate

Here it is! I answered my own question! lol!
Callie

From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] (OT) Re: [ibogaine] Price on Ibogaine treatment
Date: July 10, 2004 at 8:39:33 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston,

Hiya!  I’ve been away for a week and just came home to 350+ emails!!!

As to the receipt thing-its a pain in the ass but I don’t know anything
about computers and I don’t know how to turn it off!  I’m really sorry if it
was a pain-believe me its worse this end!  I use Outlook Express if anyone
could quickly tell me how to turn it off?  Else I’ll ask my friends n hold
off sending anymore messages til I’ve switched it off.

Sorry again, hope you’re feeling happier today!  🙂
LOL Hannah

Oh and did I have a heading ‘Adam’?  If so it was a mistake…sorry again
(wince!)

….eek!  Now you’ll get a receipt thingy for this message….
—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 3:09 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] (OT) Re: [ibogaine] Price on Ibogaine treatment

Hi Hannah
Out of curiosity and in fairly good cheer I would like to ask you, Why
is your mail set to get a receipt from other people upon their getting
your
email? What is the purpose of that feature and why would anyone use it?
Just curious here, as I myself have never once ok’d the sending of one of
those receipts to anyone at all ever, and have always wondered why people
would bother setting that feature on their email unless it was a specific
email to a specific person. But each and every email? Egad!
Seriously, I’m a little grouchy and befuddled feeling this morning,
trying to shake off the cobwebs before going to jam this afternoon, so I
apologize up front if I sound snippy, but I would like to know why you
yourself have that setting set in your email.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Hannah Clay
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 6:06 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Price on Ibogaine treatment

“Whenever I came out of a meeting I had a stronger craving than ever.”

Totally!  Same for me too.  I’d go to NA with the best intentions n come
out
not being able to get H off my mind, just ‘needing a hit’!

—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 2:32 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Price on Ibogaine treatment

Hi Julian,

Thank you for the kind words.  Log in next week and I will be babbleing
about how they used to hang witches years ago.  Speaking of witches, Al
Capone, Luchanno and Meyer Lanskie and the mafia boys sold alcohol (and
killed people too) but they never sold to a 10 year old kid.  Yea, they
were
rough and tough and killers but still moral enough to leave the kids
alone.
Something the gangsters of today should learn.  OK, all done – LOL.  Ya
all
have a nice weekend.

Sapphirestardus@aol.com wrote:
Jim you couldn’t babble too much, you can’t babble enough when it comes to
this issue. I mean i go over this shit in my head every single day! I’m
sure
I repeat myself with some people when I discuss this shit BUT it really is
sickening the way a nation as great as we can be and have been, is so
fucked
up when it comes to certain moral issues. Unfortunately we have been this
way throughout history. Human beings  generally speaking just haven’t
learned that you can’t litigate moral issues. We just can’t let it be.
There
are countless examples of severe repercussions from acting the way we do
but
history keeps repeating itself because we refuse to learn! You just keep
on
‘babbling’. I LOVE IT!!

Regards,

Julian

Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – Send 10MB messages!

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] (OT) Re: [ibogaine] Price on Ibogaine treatment
Date: July 10, 2004 at 8:39:33 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston,

Hiya!  I’ve been away for a week and just came home to 350+ emails!!!

As to the receipt thing-its a pain in the ass but I don’t know anything
about computers and I don’t know how to turn it off!  I’m really sorry if it
was a pain-believe me its worse this end!  I use Outlook Express if anyone
could quickly tell me how to turn it off?  Else I’ll ask my friends n hold
off sending anymore messages til I’ve switched it off.

Sorry again, hope you’re feeling happier today!  🙂
LOL Hannah

Oh and did I have a heading ‘Adam’?  If so it was a mistake…sorry again
(wince!)

….eek!  Now you’ll get a receipt thingy for this message….
—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 3:09 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] (OT) Re: [ibogaine] Price on Ibogaine treatment

Hi Hannah
Out of curiosity and in fairly good cheer I would like to ask you, Why
is your mail set to get a receipt from other people upon their getting
your
email? What is the purpose of that feature and why would anyone use it?
Just curious here, as I myself have never once ok’d the sending of one of
those receipts to anyone at all ever, and have always wondered why people
would bother setting that feature on their email unless it was a specific
email to a specific person. But each and every email? Egad!
Seriously, I’m a little grouchy and befuddled feeling this morning,
trying to shake off the cobwebs before going to jam this afternoon, so I
apologize up front if I sound snippy, but I would like to know why you
yourself have that setting set in your email.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Hannah Clay
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 6:06 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Price on Ibogaine treatment

“Whenever I came out of a meeting I had a stronger craving than ever.”

Totally!  Same for me too.  I’d go to NA with the best intentions n come
out
not being able to get H off my mind, just ‘needing a hit’!

—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 2:32 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Price on Ibogaine treatment

Hi Julian,

Thank you for the kind words.  Log in next week and I will be babbleing
about how they used to hang witches years ago.  Speaking of witches, Al
Capone, Luchanno and Meyer Lanskie and the mafia boys sold alcohol (and
killed people too) but they never sold to a 10 year old kid.  Yea, they
were
rough and tough and killers but still moral enough to leave the kids
alone.
Something the gangsters of today should learn.  OK, all done – LOL.  Ya
all
have a nice weekend.

Sapphirestardus@aol.com wrote:
Jim you couldn’t babble too much, you can’t babble enough when it comes to
this issue. I mean i go over this shit in my head every single day! I’m
sure
I repeat myself with some people when I discuss this shit BUT it really is
sickening the way a nation as great as we can be and have been, is so
fucked
up when it comes to certain moral issues. Unfortunately we have been this
way throughout history. Human beings  generally speaking just haven’t
learned that you can’t litigate moral issues. We just can’t let it be.
There
are countless examples of severe repercussions from acting the way we do
but
history keeps repeating itself because we refuse to learn! You just keep
on
‘babbling’. I LOVE IT!!

Regards,

Julian

Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – Send 10MB messages!

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] (OT) Re: [ibogaine] Price on Ibogaine treatment
Date: July 10, 2004 at 9:12:58 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I myself do not know how to turn it off…oops, looking around, I’ve found
it.
Go to your “tools” section (on your tool bar at the top of your outlook
express program), then go to “Options” where you’ll find a whole mess of
things to choose from.
Look for the “receipts” tab, then uncheck your “request a read reciept
for every email” at the very top of that section.
Thanks Hannah. I was just curious, as I get those “send read receipt”
from a couple others as well. Have a great day and I hope you are well.
Peace to all,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2004 8:39 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] (OT) Re: [ibogaine] Price on Ibogaine treatment

Preston,

Hiya!  I’ve been away for a week and just came home to 350+ emails!!!

As to the receipt thing-its a pain in the ass but I don’t know anything
about computers and I don’t know how to turn it off!  I’m really sorry if
it
was a pain-believe me its worse this end!  I use Outlook Express if anyone
could quickly tell me how to turn it off?  Else I’ll ask my friends n hold
off sending anymore messages til I’ve switched it off.

Sorry again, hope you’re feeling happier today!  🙂
LOL Hannah

Oh and did I have a heading ‘Adam’?  If so it was a mistake…sorry again
(wince!)

….eek!  Now you’ll get a receipt thingy for this message….
—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 3:09 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] (OT) Re: [ibogaine] Price on Ibogaine treatment

Hi Hannah
Out of curiosity and in fairly good cheer I would like to ask you,
Why
is your mail set to get a receipt from other people upon their getting
your
email? What is the purpose of that feature and why would anyone use it?
Just curious here, as I myself have never once ok’d the sending of one
of
those receipts to anyone at all ever, and have always wondered why
people
would bother setting that feature on their email unless it was a
specific
email to a specific person. But each and every email? Egad!
Seriously, I’m a little grouchy and befuddled feeling this morning,
trying to shake off the cobwebs before going to jam this afternoon, so I
apologize up front if I sound snippy, but I would like to know why you
yourself have that setting set in your email.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Hannah Clay
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 6:06 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Price on Ibogaine treatment

“Whenever I came out of a meeting I had a stronger craving than ever.”

Totally!  Same for me too.  I’d go to NA with the best intentions n come
out
not being able to get H off my mind, just ‘needing a hit’!

—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 2:32 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Price on Ibogaine treatment

Hi Julian,

Thank you for the kind words.  Log in next week and I will be babbleing
about how they used to hang witches years ago.  Speaking of witches, Al
Capone, Luchanno and Meyer Lanskie and the mafia boys sold alcohol (and
killed people too) but they never sold to a 10 year old kid.  Yea, they
were
rough and tough and killers but still moral enough to leave the kids
alone.
Something the gangsters of today should learn.  OK, all done – LOL.  Ya
all
have a nice weekend.

Sapphirestardus@aol.com wrote:
Jim you couldn’t babble too much, you can’t babble enough when it comes
to
this issue. I mean i go over this shit in my head every single day! I’m
sure
I repeat myself with some people when I discuss this shit BUT it really
is
sickening the way a nation as great as we can be and have been, is so
fucked
up when it comes to certain moral issues. Unfortunately we have been
this
way throughout history. Human beings  generally speaking just haven’t
learned that you can’t litigate moral issues. We just can’t let it be.
There
are countless examples of severe repercussions from acting the way we do
but
history keeps repeating itself because we refuse to learn! You just keep
on
‘babbling’. I LOVE IT!!

Regards,

Julian

Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – Send 10MB messages!

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] (OT) Re: [ibogaine] Price on Ibogaine treatment
Date: July 10, 2004 at 8:39:33 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston,

Hiya!  I’ve been away for a week and just came home to 350+ emails!!!

As to the receipt thing-its a pain in the ass but I don’t know anything
about computers and I don’t know how to turn it off!  I’m really sorry if it
was a pain-believe me its worse this end!  I use Outlook Express if anyone
could quickly tell me how to turn it off?  Else I’ll ask my friends n hold
off sending anymore messages til I’ve switched it off.

Sorry again, hope you’re feeling happier today!  🙂
LOL Hannah

Oh and did I have a heading ‘Adam’?  If so it was a mistake…sorry again
(wince!)

….eek!  Now you’ll get a receipt thingy for this message….
—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 3:09 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] (OT) Re: [ibogaine] Price on Ibogaine treatment

Hi Hannah
Out of curiosity and in fairly good cheer I would like to ask you, Why
is your mail set to get a receipt from other people upon their getting
your
email? What is the purpose of that feature and why would anyone use it?
Just curious here, as I myself have never once ok’d the sending of one of
those receipts to anyone at all ever, and have always wondered why people
would bother setting that feature on their email unless it was a specific
email to a specific person. But each and every email? Egad!
Seriously, I’m a little grouchy and befuddled feeling this morning,
trying to shake off the cobwebs before going to jam this afternoon, so I
apologize up front if I sound snippy, but I would like to know why you
yourself have that setting set in your email.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Hannah Clay
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 6:06 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Price on Ibogaine treatment

“Whenever I came out of a meeting I had a stronger craving than ever.”

Totally!  Same for me too.  I’d go to NA with the best intentions n come
out
not being able to get H off my mind, just ‘needing a hit’!

—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 2:32 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Price on Ibogaine treatment

Hi Julian,

Thank you for the kind words.  Log in next week and I will be babbleing
about how they used to hang witches years ago.  Speaking of witches, Al
Capone, Luchanno and Meyer Lanskie and the mafia boys sold alcohol (and
killed people too) but they never sold to a 10 year old kid.  Yea, they
were
rough and tough and killers but still moral enough to leave the kids
alone.
Something the gangsters of today should learn.  OK, all done – LOL.  Ya
all
have a nice weekend.

Sapphirestardus@aol.com wrote:
Jim you couldn’t babble too much, you can’t babble enough when it comes to
this issue. I mean i go over this shit in my head every single day! I’m
sure
I repeat myself with some people when I discuss this shit BUT it really is
sickening the way a nation as great as we can be and have been, is so
fucked
up when it comes to certain moral issues. Unfortunately we have been this
way throughout history. Human beings  generally speaking just haven’t
learned that you can’t litigate moral issues. We just can’t let it be.
There
are countless examples of severe repercussions from acting the way we do
but
history keeps repeating itself because we refuse to learn! You just keep
on
‘babbling’. I LOVE IT!!

Regards,

Julian

Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – Send 10MB messages!

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] (OT) Re: [ibogaine] Price on Ibogaine treatment
Date: July 10, 2004 at 8:39:33 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston,

Hiya!  I’ve been away for a week and just came home to 350+ emails!!!

As to the receipt thing-its a pain in the ass but I don’t know anything
about computers and I don’t know how to turn it off!  I’m really sorry if it
was a pain-believe me its worse this end!  I use Outlook Express if anyone
could quickly tell me how to turn it off?  Else I’ll ask my friends n hold
off sending anymore messages til I’ve switched it off.

Sorry again, hope you’re feeling happier today!  🙂
LOL Hannah

Oh and did I have a heading ‘Adam’?  If so it was a mistake…sorry again
(wince!)

….eek!  Now you’ll get a receipt thingy for this message….
—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 3:09 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] (OT) Re: [ibogaine] Price on Ibogaine treatment

Hi Hannah
Out of curiosity and in fairly good cheer I would like to ask you, Why
is your mail set to get a receipt from other people upon their getting
your
email? What is the purpose of that feature and why would anyone use it?
Just curious here, as I myself have never once ok’d the sending of one of
those receipts to anyone at all ever, and have always wondered why people
would bother setting that feature on their email unless it was a specific
email to a specific person. But each and every email? Egad!
Seriously, I’m a little grouchy and befuddled feeling this morning,
trying to shake off the cobwebs before going to jam this afternoon, so I
apologize up front if I sound snippy, but I would like to know why you
yourself have that setting set in your email.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Hannah Clay
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 6:06 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Price on Ibogaine treatment

“Whenever I came out of a meeting I had a stronger craving than ever.”

Totally!  Same for me too.  I’d go to NA with the best intentions n come
out
not being able to get H off my mind, just ‘needing a hit’!

—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 2:32 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Price on Ibogaine treatment

Hi Julian,

Thank you for the kind words.  Log in next week and I will be babbleing
about how they used to hang witches years ago.  Speaking of witches, Al
Capone, Luchanno and Meyer Lanskie and the mafia boys sold alcohol (and
killed people too) but they never sold to a 10 year old kid.  Yea, they
were
rough and tough and killers but still moral enough to leave the kids
alone.
Something the gangsters of today should learn.  OK, all done – LOL.  Ya
all
have a nice weekend.

Sapphirestardus@aol.com wrote:
Jim you couldn’t babble too much, you can’t babble enough when it comes to
this issue. I mean i go over this shit in my head every single day! I’m
sure
I repeat myself with some people when I discuss this shit BUT it really is
sickening the way a nation as great as we can be and have been, is so
fucked
up when it comes to certain moral issues. Unfortunately we have been this
way throughout history. Human beings  generally speaking just haven’t
learned that you can’t litigate moral issues. We just can’t let it be.
There
are countless examples of severe repercussions from acting the way we do
but
history keeps repeating itself because we refuse to learn! You just keep
on
‘babbling’. I LOVE IT!!

Regards,

Julian

Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – Send 10MB messages!

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] rootbark potency…
Date: July 10, 2004 at 8:22:01 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/10/04 6:57:04 AM, Sapphirestardus@aol.com writes:

Excuse my ignorance, but where does one find these products at these prices?
If one could purchase HCL for $300.00 and root for $50-$100.00, and assuming
they are quality products, why the excessive cost of treatment with
assistance
at a clinic or house?

Labor and general overhead costs are what lead to what you call “excessive
costs”.  As Marc Emory of iboga therapy house has indicated the cost of treating
a patient which he completely subsidizes are approximately $1,500.00.  The
more personnel and more medically credentialed personnel you have the higher
that price will go.  The Ibogaine Association and the st kitts operations as
examples.  Just as an additional thought, treating someone with ibogaine is a lot
of work.  Lets look at this another way.  Instead of ibogaine think of a meal
in a hotel.  The meal may cost $5.00 so why does the hotel charge you $100.00
dollars to stay the night or depending on the hotel maybe even $350.00 for the
night?  And they are not dosing you with a powerful drug and taking
responsibility for your safety and welfare.

If you look at Sara’s operations in the Netherlands that charges a maximum I
believe of $2,000.00 for up to a two week stay, well what do you think two
weeks of her labor and attention and housing, feeding and caring for a patient
are worth?

On the other hand if ibogaine were an over the counter drug you could
probably buy a dose that had been mass produced for less than $50.00, maybe even as
low as $10.00. But, then it would be like swallowing an aspirin and not like
going to a hospital or hospital/resort or even a bed and breakfast.

Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] rootbark potency…
Date: July 10, 2004 at 7:56:12 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Excuse my ignorance, but where does one find these products at these prices? If one could purchase HCL for $300.00 and root for $50-$100.00, and assuming they are quality products, why the excessive cost of treatment with assistance at a clinic or house?

Thanks,
Julian

From: Patrick K. Kroupa <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Take II
Date: July 10, 2004 at 2:56:02 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Patrick K. Kroupa <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] TesT
Date: July 10, 2004 at 2:48:28 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

bl1p …

/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]  \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Patrick K. Kroupa <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] DMSO
Date: July 10, 2004 at 2:34:34 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Jul 10, 2004, at 1:02 AM, CrookedEye420@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 7/10/2004 12:57:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time, CallieMimosa@aol.com writes:
I plan to do some more reading but do you know any creams or ointments that contain DMSO?
I believe you can order it from chem supply houses but I don’t know of any products you can buy over the counter that contain it.

I haven’t read this thread, and thus have no opinion on what exactly it is that you plan to do with the DMSO.  While you can certainly purchase DMSO through any chemical supply house such as VWR … Pretty much any health food store will also stock it.

The two most common/effective transdermal delivery mechanisms are, of course, DMSO (dimethylsulfoxide) followed by IPM (isopropyl myristate).  IPM is usually marketed/mixed into products as a “penetration enhancer,” whereas DMSO can make no such claim, but … works a fuckova lot better.

It is not a problem to purchase DMSO.

Patrick

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From: CrookedEye420@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] DMSO
Date: July 10, 2004 at 1:02:00 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/10/2004 12:57:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time, CallieMimosa@aol.com writes:
I plan to do some more reading but do you know any creams or ointments that contain DMSO?
I believe you can order it from chem supply houses but I don’t know of any products you can buy over the counter that contain it.

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Check out DMSO / Dimethylsulfoxide – 8 fl. oz., 99.9% Pure Concentrate
Date: July 10, 2004 at 1:00:02 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

DMSO / Dimethylsulfoxide – 8 fl. oz., 99.9% Pure Concentrate

Here it is! I answered my own question! lol!
Callie

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] DMSO
Date: July 10, 2004 at 12:55:49 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“In addition, DMSO can carry other drugs with it across membranes. It is more successful ferrying some drugs, such as morphine sulfate, penicillin, steroids, and cortisone, than others, such as insulin. What it will carry depends on the molecular weight, shape, and electrochemistry of the molecules. This property would enable DMSO to act as a new drug delivery system that would lower the risk of infection occurring whenever skin is penetrated.”

http://www.dmso.org/articles/information/muir.htm

Very interesting stuff!
I plan to do some more reading but do you know any creams or ointments that contain DMSO?
It said in above article that veterinarians use it frequently on horses with arthritic pain etc.
Callie

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Check out Management of Hepatitis C
Date: July 9, 2004 at 11:35:30 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Click here: Management of Hepatitis C

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Fwd: Check out Management of Hepatitis C
Date: July 9, 2004 at 11:32:11 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Fwd: Check out Management of Hepatitis C
Date: July 9, 2004 at 11:31:25 PM EDT
To: UUSEAN@aol.com

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: Check out Management of Hepatitis C
Date: July 9, 2004 at 8:55:21 PM EDT
To: UUSEAN@aol.com

In a message dated 7/9/04 7:12:57 PM, UUSEAN writes:

Click here: Management of Hepatitis C

<A
HREF=”http://hepcproject.typepad.com/hep_c_project/management_of_hepatitis_c.htm”>Click here: Management of Hepatitis C</A>

http://hepcproject.typepad.com/hep_c_project/management_of_hepatitis_c.htm

Sean,

That is a great letter and I believe that the guidelines have been changed as
you will have see from the link I sent to the list.  The guidelines dated
dated 2002
<http://www.guideline.gov/summary/summary.aspx?view_id=1&doc_id=3243&nbr=2469> that I posted appears to show that someone was listening to the
message of tin the letter for which you provided a link.  You should send the
letter link to the entire list.

thanks

Howard

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From: CrookedEye420@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] rootbark potency…
Date: July 9, 2004 at 9:56:18 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I actually tried some extract from that plant and it seemed to make me feel okay for the day, but afterwards my withdrawal came back.  It could be that perhaps the small amount of iboga-type alkaloids stopped the withdrawal for a bit but the dose may have been too small to cause any real, lasting relief.  I know that when I took the test dose of Iboga that it took away all my withdrawal symptoms, until I took the full dose, which was 5 grams of Iboga alkaloidal extraction.  I think that is probably why I thought it was working but then I did return to my WD’s after it wore off.
Shawn

In a message dated 7/8/2004 7:35:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, “Mark Corcoran” <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com> writes:

what do you guys know about “Voacanga Africana” ? this is my first post on
this site. Hi Howard. Sorry to say things are still not good and I just want
off this damn program!!! If what I understand is true and Voacanga Africana
is Reported to contain voacangine (carbomethoxy-ibogaine), ibogamin, plus
many other unidentified alkaloids in the root & trunk bark, leaves and
seeds. The total alkaloid fraction is said to be slightly toxic, acting as
CNS depressants & hypotensives. And totally legal to possess in this counrty
why arent more people going this route?

—– Original Message —–
From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 6:58 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] rootbark potency…

If you want to do ibo bro, why not do hcl or if you want extract get
the indra?

Not saying the ethnogarden batch is going to be bunk, but they don’t
look to
have had a lot of luck with good quality. I don’t think I’ve seen one
person ever
post here that they were happy with what they paid for.

Peace out
Curtis

On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 15:40:39 -0700 “jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu> wrote:
In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3
seconds….

3% to 6% is what the literature indicates for root bark potency
in general.
The question is, what is the percentage of ibogaine in the product
ethnogarden
is selling now.  The difference between 3% and 6% is 100% increase
in potency
from the lesser amount to the greater amount.

Which then leaves the question if ethnogarden has tested the product
they are
now selling.

Thanx Howard =)

So I suppose saying it’s 3-6 % isn’t a whole lot better than saying
“we
don’t know”…

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

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http://www.hushmail.com/services-messenger?l=434

Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
http://www.hushmail.com/about-affiliate?l=427

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From: CrookedEye420@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW ::: The dis-ease of christianity
Date: July 9, 2004 at 9:02:57 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

There is a chemical abbreviated as DMSO, I believe, that will allow just about anything to pass through the skin into the body, but you must be very careful because it can carry bacteria and things through your skin.

In a message dated 7/8/2004 12:54:02 AM Eastern Daylight Time, “Michael Maxey” <mike2boys@msn.com> writes:

Fentanyl how long does it stay in your system? also Is there a way to get more of the Duragesic patch Like a Skin  Penetration enhancer?   Seeing the Duragesic goes through your skin is there a way rub a cream  like menthol  on area thehn put patch on, I am get 10mg of Fentanyl of duragesic 100ugh  I need them to work faster sometimes.  any ideas?   Mike
—– Original Message —–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com<mailto:HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com<mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 12:25 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW ::: The dis-ease of christianity

In a message dated 7/6/04 10:00:55 PM, UUSEAN@aol.com<mailto:UUSEAN@aol.com> writes:

>I remember reading afew years ago that coke takes 72 hours to clear.  Has
>this been proven incorrect?

Metabolism and Detection Time in Urine: In the body cocaine is rapidly
converted to benzoylecgonine and ecgonine-methyl-ester which are eliminated in the
urine. Only a small fraction of the parent cocaine is eliminated in the urine
and its detection time following use is short compared to the cocaine
metabolites. The presence of benzoylecgonine is accepted evidence of cocaine use and
can be detected in the urine for as long as 2-5 days after use.

This is just one page but, pick your drug and check it out.

http://www.norchemlab.com/reference/drugindex.htm<http://www.norchemlab.com/reference/drugindex.htm>

Do a google.com search for urine drug screens or drug clearnece in urine
testing.

Howard

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From: CrookedEye420@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Non-opiate narcotic
Date: July 9, 2004 at 8:34:00 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

So, are you saying cocaine isn’t a narcotic, nor are valium or benzo’s, etc.?  Because they are all classified as narcotics under the drug laws.

In a message dated 7/7/2004 4:11:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu> writes:

I’m not entirely sure where these people are getting this from, but they
are incorrect.

Narcotics, are by definition, chemicals derived from the opium poppy, or
synthetic chemicals that have a similar structure to chemical from the
poppy.

A narcotic is NOT just a drug “that numbs the senses and induces
sleepiness”; there are MANY drugs that do these things that are NOT
narcotics (benzodiazepines, barbituates, etc).

ALL narcotics are opiates, and vice versa. A drug MUST have a similar
chemical structure to morphine and similar effects to be correctly
considered a narcotic. Both meperdine (demerol) and methodone are opiates.

Howard, From the Norchem link you  posted. Callie

URINE DRUG TEST FACT  SHEET
OPIATES
[_Heroin_ (http://www.norchemlab.com/reference/ds-opiates.htm#heroin) ]
[_Morphine_ (http://www.norchemlab.com/reference/ds-opiates.htm#morphine)
]
[_Codeine_ (http://www.norchemlab.com/reference/ds-opiates.htm#cod) ]
[_Hydrocodone_
(http://www.norchemlab.com/reference/ds-opiates.htm#hydrocod) ]
[_Hydromorphone_
(http://www.norchemlab.com/reference/ds-opiates.htm#hydromo) ]
[_Oxycodone_ (http://www.norchemlab.com/reference/ds-opiates.htm#oxy) ]
Classification: Narcotics
Background: The terms  “narcotics” and “opiates” are often used
interchangeably but are not exactly the  same. Narcotics are drugs that
numb the senses and
induce sleepiness. Some  non-opiate drugs also have narcotic properties.
Opiates are compounds derived  from opium, the milky residue of the opium
poppy
plant. Opium contains morphine  and codeine in a ratio of about five or
ten to
one. The naturally occurring  morphine and codeine can be altered in the
laboratory to produce  “semi-synthetic” opiates, of which there are many.
The most
notable  semi-synthetics, heroin, hydrocodone, hydromorphone and oxycodone
are
described  in more detail later. Poppy seeds contain enough codeine and
morphine so that  their consumption can cause both morphine and codeine to
be
detected in the  urine. Poppy seed consumption rarely results in a
morphine level
greater than  2000 ng/ml, whereas use of heroin or morphine usually leads
to
much higher  levels.
Legally  Prescribed Forms: The following table lists the most common
opiates
and  non-opiate narcotics, along with their trade names. Many of these may
be
combined with acetaminophen or aspirin and prescribed in a single tablet.
[_Top_ (http://www.norchemlab.com/reference/ds-opiates.htm#top) ]
Table 1. The  following table contains commonly used opiates and
opiate-like
drugs.    Drug Trade Name* Class Legal Use*  Buprenorphine Buprenex Opiate
narcotic Pain relief  Butorphanol Stadol Opiate narcotic Pain relief
Codeine
Empirin, Tylenol 3 Opiate narcotic Pain relief  Dextromethorphan
Robitussen DM
Opiate non-narcotic Cough suppression  Heroin None Opiate narcotic No
legal use
Hydrocodone Vicodin, Lortab  Opiate narcotic Pain relief  Hydromorhone
Dilaudid Opiate narcotic Pain relief  Levorphanol Dromoran Opiate narcotic
Pain
relief  Meperidine Demerol Non-opiate narcotic Pain relief  Methadone
Dolophine
Non-opiate narcotic Opiate dependency  Morphine MS-Contin Opiate narcotic
Pain
relief  Nalbuphine Nubian Opiate narcotic Pain relief  Naloxone Narcan
Opaite
anti-narcotic Narcotic overdose  Naltrexone Trexan Opiate anti-narcotic
Narcotic overdose  Oxycodone Percodan, Roxicet  Opiate narcotic Pain
relief
Oxymorphone Numorphan Opiate narcotic Pain relief  Propoxyphene Darvon
Non-opiate
narcotic Pain relief    *  There may be other trade names or legal uses
which are
not  listed.

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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] HCV – was – Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW
Date: July 9, 2004 at 8:18:35 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Randy,

Excellent point concerning the better attitude and general health of marijuana smokers with hepC.  I have been told that marinaol does not work nearly as well for medicinal purposes as the real thing.

Like ibogaine, marijuana is subject the same stupid politics.  And neither party seems better than the other on these issues.

Sean

From: CrookedEye420@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW
Date: July 9, 2004 at 8:16:52 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I was breast fed but didn’t have a father figure in my life and I was an addict, so maybe it is a number of things, including genetics.

In a message dated 7/7/2004 8:59:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time, “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> writes:

There’s a subscriber on my DrugWar.com list who has similar theories about
addiction and breat feeding I believe, if I’m reading his work correctly,
and I think he’s got something about it up on his website, but I’ll have to
wait for him to send me a URL to supply that.
I never experienced the breast feeding thing so far as I know, having
been given up at birth by the very young mom-type who hatched me. So maybe
there’s something to it. I can’t really say, not knowing for sure who else I
know who uses/used had a similar lack of breasts in their childhood.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 4:25 PM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW

My idea about  addiction is that it comes from “not getting breast fed
By
mom after birth”.
That is for a start, then the whole family & environmental situation,
Like child vaccine and other confusing things we get from adults as
kids.
Looking for a fix is looking for emotional satisfaction, just like a
baby
Who needs his mom, comfort and warmth. And that has nothing to do with
logical mind control but illogical emotional need.
I’m not a great researcher in this field and this is only an Idea.

That seems like a logical theory.

I’m not sure what my breast-feeding was like, but I do have a very strong
oral fixation.. one of the main reasons I find it so difficult to quit
smoking; i feel as though i need to have something in my mouth, a
cigarette, a bowl, or food…

your theory also reminds me somewhat of Eric Taub’s theory on the etiology
of addiction, that much addiction results from an unstable or absent
bonding with the individual’s parent of the same sex (rather than the
mother). It’s been a while since I read his stuff, but it was something
along the same lines as what you’re saying… that the individual takes
drugs to fill a hole left by unfulfilling parenting…

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From: CrookedEye420@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW ::: The dis-ease of christianity
Date: July 9, 2004 at 8:10:53 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/7/2004 12:25:03 AM Eastern Daylight Time, HSLotsof@aol.com writes:

In a message dated 7/6/04 10:00:55 PM, UUSEAN@aol.com writes:

I remember reading afew years ago that coke takes 72 hours to clear.  Has
this been proven incorrect?

Metabolism and Detection Time in Urine: In the body cocaine is rapidly
converted to benzoylecgonine and ecgonine-methyl-ester which are eliminated in the
urine. Only a small fraction of the parent cocaine is eliminated in the urine
and its detection time following use is short compared to the cocaine
metabolites. The presence of benzoylecgonine is accepted evidence of cocaine use and
can be detected in the urine for as long as 2-5 days after use.

This is just one page but, pick your drug and check it out.

http://www.norchemlab.com/reference/drugindex.htm

Do a google.com search for urine drug screens or drug clearnece in urine
testing.

Howard

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Also, this is a rough guideline that can change with the length and frequency of use.  Your body treats most drugs as toxins, which usually are metabolized in your liver into the chemicals that come up in a drug screen.  Your metabolism, can affect these times, as well as the other drugs you may be taking, the length of time, and frequency of use.  When I was on methadone, it slowed down my metabolism and caused many drugs to show up after the normal detection times.  Also, when you use a drug frequently, your body gets used to it and it is eliminated slower.  Normally, Cannabis is out of your system in 3-5 days with one time use.  When taken daily over an extended period the time increases to up to a month.  When in conjunction with methadone, I came up dirty for Cannabis three months after quitting.  So, while these guidelines are general times, there are many factors that can change the actual detection times.
Shawn

From: Energeticvibe1@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Fwd: [QXCI-ENGLISH] CHANGE THE WORLD!
Date: July 9, 2004 at 7:40:51 PM EDT
To: Ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Forgive me if this is not appropriate for this group, I just thought you would find it interesting.

Denise

From: Andrée Thouin <athouin@interlog.com>
Subject: [QXCI-ENGLISH] CHANGE THE WORLD!
Date: July 8, 2004 at 12:49:48 PM EDT
To: <qxci-english@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-To: qxci-english@yahoogroups.com

This message is copied from http://www.geocities.com/meetetnow/
where it is also given in several other languages.

CHANGE THE WORLD!

“DECIDE WHETHER WE SHOULD SHOW UP!”

Whoever transmitted this translated message to you is irrelevant, and should
remain anonymous in your mind. It is what you will do with this message
which matters !

Each one of you wishes to exercise her/his free will and experience
happiness.

These are attributes that were shown to us and to which we now have access.
Your free will depends upon the knowledge you have of your own power. Your
happiness depends upon the love that you give and receive.

Like all conscious races at this stage of progress, you may feel isolated on
your planet. This impression makes you sure of your destiny. Yet, you are at
the brink of big upheavals that only a minority is aware of.

It is not our responsibility to modify your future without you choosing it.
Consider this message as a worldwide referendum! And your answer as a
ballot!

Who are we ?

Neither your scientists nor your religious representatives speak unanimously
about the unexplained celestial events that mankind has witnessed for
thousands of years. To know the truth, one must face it without the filter
of one’s beliefs, however respectable they may be.

A growing number of anonymous researchers of yours are exploring new
knowledge paths and are getting very close to reality. Today, your
civilisation is flooded with an ocean of information of which only a tiny
part, the less upsetting one, is notably diffused.

What in your history seemed ridiculous or improbable has often become
possible, then realised, in particular in the last fifty years. Be aware
that the future will be even more surprising. You will discover the worst as
well as the best.

Like billions others in this galaxy, we are conscious creatures that some
name “extra-terrestrials”, even though reality is subtler.

There is no fundamental difference between you and us, save for the
experience of certain stages of evolution. Like in any other organised
structure, hierarchy exists in our internal relationships. Ours is based
upon the wisdom of several races. It is with the approval of this hierarchy
that we turn to you.

Like most of you, we are in the quest of the Supreme Being. Therefore we are
not gods or lesser gods but virtually your equals in the Cosmic Brotherhood.

Physically, we are somewhat different from you but for most of us
humanoid-shaped.

Our existence is a reality but the majority of you does not perceive it yet.
We are not mere observations, we are consciences just like you. You fail to
apprehend us because we remain invisible to your senses and measure
instruments most of the time.

We wish to fill this void at this moment in your history. We made this
collective decision but this is not enough. We need yours. Through this
message, you become the decision-makers ! You personally.

We have no human representative on Earth who could guide your decision.

Why aren’t we visible ?

At certain stages of evolution, cosmic “humanities² discover new forms of
science beyond the apparent control of matter. Structured dematerialisation
and materialisation are part of them. This is what your humanity has reached
in a few laboratories, in close collaboration with other “extra-terrestrial”
creatures at the cost of hazardous compromises that remain purposedly hidden
from you by some of your representatives.

Apart from the aerial or spatial objects or phenomena known about by your
scientific community, that you call ‘UFOs, there are essentially
multidimensional manufactured spaceships that apply these capacities.

Many human beings have been in visual, auditory, tactile or psychic contact
with such ships, some of which are under occult powers that “govern” you.
The scarcity of your observations is due to the outstanding advantages
provided by the dematerialised state of these ships.

By not witnessing them by yourself, you cannot believe in their existence.
We fully understand this.

The majority of these observations are made on an individual basis so as to
touch the soul and not to modify any organised system. This is deliberate
from the races that surround you but for very different reasons and results.

For negative multidimensional beings that play a part in the exercise of
power in the shadow of human oligarchy, discretion is motivated by their
will to keep their existence and seizure unknown.

For us, discretion is motivated by the respect of the human free will that
people can exercise to manage their own affairs so that they can reach
technical and spiritual maturity on their own. Humankind’s entrance into the
family of galactic civilisations is greatly expected.

We can appear in broad daylight and help you attain this union. We haven’t
done it so far, as too few of you have genuinely desired it, because of
ignorance, indifference or fear, and because the emergency of the situation
did not justify it. Many of those who study our appearances count the lights
in the night without lighting the way. Often they think in terms of objects
when it is all about conscious beings.

Who are you ?

You are the offspring of many traditions that throughout time have been
mutually enriched by each others’ contributions. The same applies to the
races at the surface of the Earth. Your goal is to unite in the respect of
these roots to accomplish a common project. The appearance of your cultures
seems to keep you separated because you substitute it to your deeper being.
Shape is now more important than the essence of your subtle nature. For the
powers in place, this prevalence of the shape constitutes the ramparts
against any form of jeopardy.

You are being called on to overcome shape while still respecting it for its
richness and beauty. Understanding the conscience of shape makes us love men
in their diversity. Peace does not mean not making war, it consists in
becoming what you are in reality: a same Fraternity.

To understand this, the number of solutions within your reach are
decreasing. One of them consists in contact with another race that would
reflect the image of what you are in reality.

What is your situation ?

Except for rare occasions, our interventions always had very little
incidence on your capacity to make collective and individual decisions about
your own future. This is motivated by our knowledge of your deep
psychological mechanisms.

We reached the conclusion that freedom is built every day as a being becomes
aware of himself and of his environment, getting progressively rid of
constraints and inertias, whatever they may be. Despite the numerous, brave
and willing human consciences, those inertias are artificially maintained
for the profit of a growing centralising power.

Until recently, mankind lived a satisfying control of its decisions. But it
is losing more and more the control of its own fate because of the growing
use of advanced technologies, which lethal consequences on the earthly and
human ecosystems become irreversible. You are slowly but surely losing your
extraordinary capacity to make life desirable. Your resilience will
artificially decrease, independently of your own will. Such technologies
exist that affect your body as well as your mind. Such plans are on their
way.

This can change as long as you keep this creative power in you, even if it
cohabits with the dark intentions of your potential lords. This is the
reason why we remain invisible. This individual power is doomed to vanish
should a collective reaction of great magnitude not happen. The period to
come is that of rupture, whichever it may be.

But should you wait for the last moment to find solutions ? Should you
anticipate or undergo pain ?

Your history has never ceased to be marked by encounters between peoples who
had to discover one another in conditions that were often conflictual.
Conquests almost always happened to the detriment of others. Earth has now
become a village where everyone knows everyone else but still conflicts
persist and threats of all kinds get worse in duration and intensity.

Although a Human being as an individual, yet having many potential
capacities, cannot exercise them with dignity. This is the case for the
biggest majority of you for reasons that are essentially geopolitical.

There are several billion of you. The education of your children and your
living conditions, as well as the conditions of numerous animals and much
plant life are nevertheless under the thumb of a small number of your
political, financial, military and religious representatives.

Your thoughts and beliefs are modelled after partisan interests to turn you
into slaves while at the same time giving you the feeling that you are in
total control of your destiny, which in essence is the reality.

But there is a long way between a wish and a fact when the true rules of the
game at hand are unknown. This time, you are not the conqueror. Biasing
information is a millenary strategy for human beings. Inducting thoughts,
emotions or organisms that do not belong to you via ad hoc technologies is
an even older a strategy.

Wonderful opportunities of progress stand close to big subdual and
destruction threats. These dangers and opportunities exist now. However, you
can only perceive what is being shown to you. The end of natural resources
is programmed whereas no long-term collective project has been launched.

Ecosystem exhaustion mechanisms have exceeded irreversible limits. The
scarcity of resources and their unfair distribution – resources which entry
price will rise day after day – will bring about fratricide fights at a
large scale, but also at the very heart of your cities and countrysides.

Hatred grows bigger but so does love. That is what keeps you confident in
your ability to find solutions. But the critical mass is insufficient and a
sabotage work is cleverly being carried out.

Human behaviours, formed from past habits and trainings, have such an
inertia that this perspective leads you to a dead end. You entrust these
problems to representatives, whose conscience of common well-being slowly
fades away in front of corporatist interests, with those difficulties. They
are always debating on the form but rarely on the content.

Just at the moment of action, delays will accumulate to the point when you
have to submit rather than choose. This is the reason why, more than ever in
your history, your decisions of today will directly and significantly impact
your survival of tomorrow.

What event could radically modify this inertia that is typical of any
civilisation ? Where will a collective and unifying awareness come from,
that will stop this blind rushing ahead ?

Tribes, populations and human nations have always encountered and interacted
with one another. Faced with the threats weighing upon the human family, it
is perhaps time that a greater interaction occurred.

A great roller wave is on the verge of emerging. It mixes very positive but
also very negative aspects.

Who are the “third party” ?

There are two ways to establish a cosmic contact with another civilisation:
via its standing representatives or directly with individuals without
distinction. The first way entails fights of interests, the second way
brings awareness.

The first way was chosen by a group of races motivated by keeping mankind in
slavery, thereby controlling Earth resources, the gene pool and human
emotional energy.

The second way was chosen by a group of races allied with the cause of the
Spirit of service. We have, at our end, subscribed to this disinterested
cause and introduced ourselves a few years ago to representatives of the
human power who refused our outstretched hand on the pretext of incompatible
interests with their strategic vision.

That is why today individuals are to make this choice by themselves without
any representative interfering. What we proposed in the past to those whom
we believed were in a capacity to contribute to your happiness, we propose
it now to … you!

Most of you ignore that non-human creatures took part in the exercise of
those centralising powers without them being neither suspected nor
accessible to your senses. This is so true that they have almost very subtly
taken control. They do not necessarily stand on your material plan, and that
is precisely what could make them extremely efficient and frightening in the
near future. However, be aware that a large number of your representatives
are fighting this danger ! Be aware that not all abductions are made against
you. It is difficult to recognize the truth !

How could you under such conditions exercise your free will when it is so
much manipulated ? What are you really free of ?

Peace and reunification of your peoples would be a first step toward the
harmony with civilisations other than yours.

That is precisely what those who manipulate you behind the scenes want to
avoid at all cost because, by dividing, they reign! They also reign over
those who govern you. Their strength comes from their capacity to distillate
mistrust and fear into you. This considerably harms your very cosmic nature.

This message would be of no interest if these manipulators’ tutorate did not
reach its peak and if their misleading and murderous plans did not
materialise in a few years from now. Their deadlines are close and mankind
will undergo unprecedented torments for the next ten cycles.

To defend yourselves against this aggression that bears no face, you need at
least to have enough information that leads to the solution.

As is also the case with humans, resistance exists amongst those dominant
races. Here again, appearance will not be enough to tell the dominator from
the ally. At your current state of psychism, it is extremely difficult for
you to distinguish between them. In addition to your intuition, training
will be necessary when the time has come.

Being aware of the priceless value of free will, we are inviting you to an
alternative.

What can we offer ?

We can offer you a more holistic vision of the universe and of life,
constructive interactions, the experience of fair and fraternal
relationships, liberating technical knowledge, eradiction of suffering,
controlled exercise of individual powers, the access to new forms of energy
and, finally, a better comprehension of consciousness.

We cannot help you overcome your individual and collective fears, or bring
you laws that you would not have chosen, work on your own selves, individual
and collective effort to build the world you desire, the spirit of quest to
new skies.

What would we receive ?

Should you decide that such a contact takes place, we would rejoice over the
safeguarding of fraternal equilibrium in this region of the universe,
fruitful diplomatic exchanges, and the intense Joy of knowing that you are
united to accomplish what you are capable of. The feeling of Joy is strongly
sought in the universe for its energy is divine.

What is the question we ask you ?

“DO YOU WISH THAT WE SHOW UP ?”

How to can you answer this question ?

The truth of soul can be read by telepathy. You only need to clearly ask
yourself this question and give your answer as clearly, on your own or in a
group, as you wish. Being in the heart of a city or in the middle of a
desert does not impact the efficiency of your answer, YES or NO, IMMEDIATELY
AFTER ASKING THE QUESTION! Just do it as if you were speaking to yourself
but thinking about the message.

This is a universal question and these mere few words, put in their context,
have a powerful meaning. You should not let hesitation in the way. This is
why you should calmly think about it, in all conscience. In order to
perfectly associate your answer with the question, it is recommended that
you answer right after another reading of this message.

Do not rush to answer. Breathe and let all the power of your own free will
penetrate you. Be proud of what you are ! The problems that you may have
weaken you. Forget about them for a few minutes to be yourselves. Feel the
force that springs up in you. You are in control of yourselves !

A single thought, a single answer can drastically change your near future,
in one way as in another.

Your individual decision of asking in your inner self that we show up on
your material plan and in broad daylight is precious and essential to us.

Even though you can choose the way that best suits you, rituals are
essentially useless. A sincere request made with your heart and your own
will will always be perceived by those of us whom it is sent to.

In your own private polling booth of your secret will, you will determine
the future.

What is the lever effect ?

This decision should be made by the greatest number among you, even though
it might seem like a minority. It is recommended to spread this message, in
all envisageable fashions, in as many languages as possible, to those around
you, whether or not they seem receptive to this new vision of the future.

Do it using in a humorous tone or derision if that can help you. You can
even openly and publicly make fun of it if it makes you feel more
comfortable but do not be indifferent for at least you will have exercised
your free will.

Forget about the false prophets and the beliefs that have been transmitted
to you about us. This request is one of the most intimate that can be asked
to you.
Making a decision by yourself, as an individual, is your right as well as
your responsibility !

Passivity only leads to the absence of freedom. Similarly, indecision is
never efficient. If you really want to cling to your beliefs, which is
something that we understand, then say NO. If you do not know what to
choose, do not say YES because of mere curiosity. This is not a show, this
is real daily life, WE ARE ALIVE ! And living !

Your history has plenty of episodes when determined men and women were able
to influence the thread of events in spite of their small number.

Just like a small number is enough to take temporal power on Earth and
influence the future of the majority, a small number of you can radically
change your fate as an answer to the impotence in face of so much inertia
and hurdles ! You can ease the mankind’s birth to Brotherhood.

One of your thinkers once said: ³Give me a hand-hold and I’ll raise the
Earth”.

Spreading this message will then be the hand-hold to strengthen, we will be
the light-years long lever, you will be the craftsmen to … raise the Earth
as a consequence of our appearance.

What would be the consequences of a positive decision ?

For us, the immediate consequence of a collective favourable decision would
be the materialisation of many ships, in your sky and on Earth.

For you, the direct effect would be the rapid abandoning of many certitudes
and beliefs.

A simple conclusive visual contact would have huge repercussions on your
future. Much knowledge would be modified forever. The organisation of your
societies would be deeply upheaved for ever, in all fields of activity.
Power would become individual because you would see for yourself that we are
living. Concretely, you would change the scale of your values !

The most important thing for us is that humankind would form a single family
in front of this “unknown” we would represent !

Danger would slowly melt away from your homes because you would indirectly
force the undesirable ones, those we name the “third party”, to show up and
vanish. You would all bear the same name and share the same roots: Mankind !

Later on, peaceful and respectful exchanges would be thus possible if such
is your wish. For now, he who is hungry cannot smile, he who is fearful
cannot welcome us. We are sad to see men, women and children suffering to
such a degree in their flesh and in their hearts when they bear such an
inner light.

This light can be your future. Our relationships could be progressive.

Several stages of several years or decades would occur: demonstrative
appearance of our ships, physical appearance beside human beings,
collaboration in your technical and spiritual evolution, discovery of parts
of the galaxy.

Every time, new choices would be offered to you. You would then decide by
yourself to cross new stages if you think it necessary to your external and
inner well-being. No interference would be decided upon unilaterally. We
would leave as soon as you would collectively wish that we do.

Depending upon the speed to spread the message across the world, several
weeks, or even several months will be necessary before our “great
appearance”, if such is the decision made by the majority of those who will
have used their capacity to choose, and if this message receives the
necessary support.

The main difference between your daily prayers to entities of a strictly
spiritual nature and your current decision is extremely simple :

we are technically equipped to materialise!

Why such a historical dilemma ?

We know that “foreigners” are considered as enemies as long as they embody
the “unknown”. In a first stage, the emotion that our appearance will
generate will strengthen your relationships on a worldwide scale.

How could you know whether our arrival is the consequence of your collective
choice ? For the simple reason that we would have otherwise been already
there for a long time at your level of existence ! If we are not there yet,
it is because you have not made such a decision explicitely.

Some among you might think that we would make you believe in a deliberate
choice of yours so as to legitimate our arrival, though this would not be
true. What interest would we have to openly offer you what you haven’t got
any access to yet, for the benefit of the greatest number of you ?

How could you be certain that this is not yet another subtle manoeuvre of
the “third party” to better enslave you ? Because one always more
efficiently fights something that is identified than the contrary. Isn’t the
terrorism that corrodes you a blatant example ?

Whatever, you are the sole judge in your own heart and soul ! Whatever your
choice, it would be respectable and respected ! In the absence of human
representatives who could potentially seduce into error you ignore
everything about us as well as from about those who manipulate you without
your consent.

In your situation, the precautionary principle that consists in not trying
to discover us does no longer prevail. You are already in the Pandora’s box
that the “third party” has created around you. Whatever your decision may be
you will have to get out of it.

In the face of such a dilemma, one ignorance against another, you need to
ask your intuition. Do you want to see us with your own eyes, or simply
believe what your thinkers say ? That is the real question!

After thousands of years, one day, this choice was going to be inevitable:
choosing between two unknowns.

Why spread such a message among yourselves ?

Translate and spread this message widely. This action will affect your
future in an irreversible and historical way at the scale of milleniums,
otherwise, it will postpone a new opportunity to choose to several years
later, at least one generation, if it can survive.

Not choosing, stands for undergoing other people’s choice. Not informing
others stands for running the risk of obtaining a result that is contrary to
one’s expectations. Remaining indifferent means giving up one’s free will.

It is all about your future. It is all about your evolution.

It is possible that this invitation does not receive your collective assent
and that, because of a lack of information, it will be disregarded.
Nevertheless no individual desire goes unheeded in the universe.

Imagine our arrival tomorrow. Thousands of ships. A unique cultural shock in
today’s mankind’s history. It will then be too late to regret about not
making a choice and spreading the message because this discovery will be
irreversible. We do insist that you do not rush into it, but do think about
it ! And decide !

The big medias will not be necessarely interested in spreading this message.
It is therefore your task, as an anonymous yet an extraordinary thinking and
loving being, to transmit it.

You are still the architects of your own fate…

“DO YOU WISH THAT WE SHOW UP ?”

you are free to publish, reproduce and copy this message as you like !
on the contrary, you are invited to do it…

but don’t modify or cut the message, please.

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From: “jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] rootbark potency…
Date: July 9, 2004 at 9:52:10 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

If you want to do ibo bro, why not do hcl or if you want extract get
the indra?

Not saying the ethnogarden batch is going to be bunk, but they don’t
look to
have had a lot of luck with good quality. I don’t think I’ve seen one
person ever
post here that they were happy with what they paid for.

Peace out
Curtis

ooops… sorry, a little trigger happy i guess…eheh

what i had meant to say was..

I can really afford the $300 for the HCL.. but I could afford the 50 or
whatever the rootbark costs. And buying it in Canada is legal.

But on the other hand, I’d be  pretty irritated if I drove 10 hours there
and back, and then it didn’t do anything…

So, such is the  quandry i face…eheh

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From: “jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] rootbark potency…
Date: July 9, 2004 at 9:42:38 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

If you want to do ibo bro, why not do hcl or if you want extract get
the indra?

Not saying the ethnogarden batch is going to be bunk, but they don’t
look to
have had a lot of luck with good quality. I don’t think I’ve seen one
person ever
post here that they were happy with what they paid for.

Well

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From: “Michael Maxey” <mike2boys@msn.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Sorry
Date: July 9, 2004 at 8:50:59 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I am sorry I think you missed my first point. I am a longtime Chronic Pain Suffer I am on Duragesic patches 100ugh  and Oxycodone 20mg daily. Then Neurontin 4800mg for nerve pain Xanax 1mg Valium 10mg 2 a day. and Lexapro 40mg  day.  and Rilitilin 30mg daily.  I know  a lot drugs. I was Injured by a Adult with Mental Retardation at the State Hospital He was 42  born that way.  anyway he ran his head into  my back charged me from behind.  I woke up in E.R couldn’t walk for several days.  anyway  I had surgeries done.  now a Spinal cord Stimulator. look I beileve if I can find a way to increase the Duragesic patch  as needed only  It would help a lot.  yes heat a answer  but then you get red burn spots.  Is there on the market a Chemical that  pentrates into your skin.  see Duragesic patches are put on 3 days  then  put new one on.   but you really are only getting less then half of med. If you keep the old patch keepon 4 days  you will notice less pain. My Doctor helps me with all I need.  but with all im on he weary.  he is a pain management Doctor.   Can someone look into getting trhe Duragesic patch to penatrate as needed?   I found your group  you all seem cool.  I am Mike 32 married  we have 2 boys Michael-10 Anthony-6  we are in  Delaware thanks
—– Original Message —–
From: gboy@hush.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 12:17 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW ::: The dis-ease of christianity

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—–
Hash: SHA1

No intent to dis anyone a simple question I don’t understand the answer
to. With all this shit
that alot of you are taking, fentanel however it is spelled, methadone,
subutex however it is
spelled, oxycotton.

As far as I understand it all that your doing is changing to another
drug that is legal instead
of using heroin. Whats the point of that or is it because it is legal
and heroin costs too much
so you can keep getting high and not be bothered?

The second part I dont understand is, who cares about any of this. What
I meant is why is
anyone so excited about subutex or whatev new legal drug comes out, who
cares? Why is any
of it any different or better then methadone.

Tell me if i’m wrong but your still addicted, still getting high on it,
so why dont the
government or fda or whoever make it all legal, it all does the same
thing.

To all the peeps who are going to get mad at me and I feel it coming,
sorry I am not a elite
junkie, I’m pro pot which is a simple yes or no, not which one of these
10 strains should be
illegal and which others should be legal or whatev. Its all the same
shit no/

.g

On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 21:54:02 -0700 Michael Maxey <mike2boys@msn.com>
wrote:
>Fentanyl how long does it stay in your system? also Is there a way
>to
>get more of the Duragesic patch Like a Skin Penetration enhancer?
>
>Seeing the Duragesic goes through your skin is there a way rub a
>cream
>like menthol on area thehn put patch on, I am get 10mg of Fentanyl
>of
>duragesic 100ugh I need them to work faster sometimes. any ideas?
>
>Mike
>—– Original Message —–
>  From: HSLotsof@aol.com
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 12:25 AM
>Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW ::: The dis-ease of
>
>christianity
>
>
>In a message dated 7/6/04 10:00:55 PM, UUSEAN@aol.com writes:
>
> >I remember reading afew years ago that coke takes 72 hours to
>clear.
>Has
> >this been proven incorrect?
>
>Metabolism and Detection Time in Urine: In the body cocaine is rapidly
>converted to benzoylecgonine and ecgonine-methyl-ester which are
>
>eliminated in the
>  urine. Only a small fraction of the parent cocaine is eliminated
>in
>the urine
>and its detection time following use is short compared to the cocaine
>metabolites. The presence of benzoylecgonine is accepted evidence
>of
>cocaine use and
>  can be detected in the urine for as long as 2-5 days after use.
>
>
>This is just one page but, pick your drug and check it out.
>
>http://www.norchemlab.com/reference/drugindex.htm
>
>Do a google.com search for urine drug screens or drug clearnece
>in urine
>  testing.
>
>Howard
>
>
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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] HCV – was – Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW
Date: July 9, 2004 at 5:55:26 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Why is no one saying the obvious? The meth patients who smoked and I was one of them ate better, slept better, and overall had a better attitude. My doc had marinol stuff i.e. pads, coffee cups, and so on in his office. I found out at the end that I could have had it but wonder if it would have been as effective as the weed  I was smoking? By the way my Hep C doc put me on 80 mgs. meth as soon as I told him I was an addict. All fine and good but after 4 or 5 months his wife and money partner refused to give me a prescription he had wrote and cut me off cold turkey from the methadone. No taper no help just told me to get it some where else. Is there a law suit here?      Randy

From: “AG” <adamg@013.net.il>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] rootbark potency… Dr.Chris Jenks…
Date: July 9, 2004 at 6:50:35 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.puzzlepiece.org/ibogaine/literature/jenks2002.pdf

Mark et al,

check out the link above for some cool info on voacanga… apparently
it is extremely similar in composite to tabernanthe and more importantly
a simple chemical conversion can render it identical….
I think the idea being that the voacanga ‘treebark’ as opposed to the ibo
‘root’ can be harvested with less impact on the environment…

*When* iboga hits mainstream it would be nice if we can meet the demands
without uprooting 7+ yr old bush-trees…. and personally, I can’t help but
suspect that this too is by cosmic design.

cheers,
AG

-plenty of other interesting ibo articles on Chris’ site, I don’t think he’s
still
on this list tho….

In a message dated 7/8/04 6:35:59 PM, mcorcoran27@hotmail.com writes:

what do you guys know about “Voacanga Africana” ? this is my first post
on this site. Hi Howard. Sorry to say things are still not good and I
just
want off this damn program!!! If what I understand is true and Voacanga
Africana
is Reported to contain voacangine (carbomethoxy-ibogaine), ibogamin,
plus
many other unidentified alkaloids in the root & trunk bark, leaves and
seeds. The total alkaloid fraction is said to be slightly toxic, acting
as CNS depressants & hypotensives. And totally legal to possess in this
counrty
why arent more people going this route?

Because no one has found it effective.

Howard

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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] HCV – was – Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW
Date: July 9, 2004 at 12:07:56 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Howard,

I mentioned your research, and he seemed really interested in it. I also told him that you could not reveal your source.  I will find that address again tomorrow, as I am going to sleep now.

Good night all.
Sean

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] HCV – was – Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW
Date: July 9, 2004 at 12:01:50 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/8/04 10:56:57 PM, UUSEAN@aol.com writes:

I forgot to mention that my new therapist, who by coincidence is also a

patient advocate for people with HIV/AIDS.  He strongly suggested a second
opinion, concerned that my doctor was requiring abstinence for moral rather
than
scientific reasons.  I plan to take his advice.

Further, he agreed that weed is probably the best choice if I need to relax,
certainly not a beer.

Sean,

The information I provided was not just that marijuana is a better choice to
relax with than alcohol but, that in a study of methadone patients, those
patients that smoked marijuana and were treated with interferon/riboviron had
better results in their treatment outcomes than those patients were were treated
with interferon/riboviron and did not smoke marijuana.

Howard

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] HCV – was – Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW
Date: July 8, 2004 at 11:58:05 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/8/04 10:49:26 PM, UUSEAN@aol.com writes:

Thanks for the research.  I had been reading a letter to the NIH which
I
found at this address:
hepcproject.typepad.com/hep_c_project/management_of_hepatitus_c.html

Sean

Sean,

I am getting a non-working page notice when I try to reach the above page.

Thanks

Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] HCV – was – Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW
Date: July 8, 2004 at 11:56:00 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello again,

I forgot to mention that my new therapist, who by coincidence is also a patient advocate for people with HIV/AIDS.  He strongly suggested a second opinion, concerned that my doctor was requiring abstinence for moral rather than scientific reasons.  I plan to take his advice.

Further, he agreed that weed is probably the best choice if I need to relax, certainly not a beer.

Thanks again for all the concern and support.

Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] HCV – was – Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW
Date: July 8, 2004 at 11:48:19 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Howard,

Thanks for the research.  I had been reading a letter to the NIH which I found at this address: hepcproject.typepad.com/hep_c_project/management_of_hepatitus_c.html

Sean

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Marijuana on the floor of congress
Date: July 8, 2004 at 11:48:15 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

ORIGINAL MESSAGE FOLLOWS

July 7, 2008.  MAPS’ struggles to conduct medical marijuana research were
mentioned (though MAPS itself was not) on the floor of the US Congress by Rep.
Farr (D-CA) in yesterday’s debate over the Farr-Rohrabacher-Hinchey-Paul
amendment  that would have prohibited the use of federal funds to prevent
States that
have medical marijuana laws from implementing them. Unfortunately, the bill
lost by a vote of 148 (yes) to 268 (no).

Rep. Farr, “Other opponents of this amendment say that they will not support
medical
marijuana until more research is complete. The problem is that the Federal
Government has effectively blocked research. To cite just one example, in
July 2001, the University of Massachusetts applied to the DEA for a license
to manufacture marijuana for medical research. This is the same kind of
license a company called GW Pharmaceuticals applied for in England a few
years ago. While GW Pharmaceuticals has now concluded Phase III trials and
is nearing market approval for its marijuana spray, the DEA–3 years
later–has not even bothered to deny the University of Massachusetts’
license. Of course, they have not granted it, either. They have just let the
application sit in limbo.

Another application to the Federal Government, requesting permission to
import just 10 grams of marijuana for research has languished for 10 months.
Does our government think 10 grams of marijuana is going to increase the
drug problem in this Nation? Of course not. The Federal goal seems to be to
purposely to block research that would prove–or disprove, once and for
all–that marijuana has therapeutic benefits.”

The entire transcript of the debate is pasted in  below.

July 7, 2004

SEC. 801. None of the funds made available in this Act to the Department of
Justice may be used to prevent the States of Alaska, California, Colorado,
Hawaii, Maine, Maryland, Nevada, Oregon, Vermont, or Washington from
implementing State laws authorizing the use of medical marijuana in those
States.

The CHAIRMAN. Points of order are reserved, and pursuant to the order of
the House today, the gentleman from California (Mr. Farr) and the gentleman
from Virginia (Mr. Wolf) each will control 10 minutes.

The Chair recognizes the gentleman from California (Mr. Farr).

Mr. FARR. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself such time as I may consume.

(Mr. FARR asked and was given permission to revise and extend his
remarks.)

Mr. FARR. Mr. Chairman, the purpose of this amendment is very
straightforward. In simple terms, the Farr-Rohrabacher-Hinchey-Paul
amendment prohibits the use of funds in the bill from preventing States that
have medical marijuana laws from implementing them.

As a result, the States have medical marijuana laws on the books they can
implement, regulate and enforce them, just like now. States that do not have
medical marijuana laws on the books remain subject to the overarching
Federal law.

This amendment does not stop law enforcement officials from prosecuting
illegal use of marijuana. This amendment does not encourage the use of
marijuana. This amendment does not encourage the use of drugs in children.
This amendment does not legalize any drugs. This amendment does not change
the classification of marijuana. This amendment is recognized as States’
rights to oversee the medical scope of practice of doctors in their States,
to prescribe drugs as doctors see as necessary for medical conditions.

Today’s Los Angeles Times points out that the Justice Department’s
medical marijuana war seems increasingly out of step with the whole country.
Last fall, the Supreme Court upheld a lower court ruling barring Federal
officials from prosecuting doctors for their recommendations.

Just 2 weeks ago, the United Methodist Church, the Presbyterian Church,
the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America and other mainstream religious
groups supported doctors’ rights to prescribe pot as a when-all-else-fails
treatment for the seriously ill. The best way to thwart casual use of this
drug is to let doctors prescribe it in closely circumscribed and regulated
ways such as the States do.

Now, there are nine States that have passed these laws. The voters are
speaking, and they are doing it more in every State. Just recently Vermont.
Alaska, California, Colorado, Hawaii, Maine, Nevada, Oregon, Vermont, and
Washington have enacted State medical marijuana laws. Because of these State
laws, thousands of patients are able to alleviate their pain and suffering
without fear of arrest by State or local authorities.
[Page: H5301]  GPO’s PDF

The threat of arrest by Federal agents, however, still exists. In the
past, the Federal Government has impeded research on medical use of
marijuana, even though thousands of patients have testified, explained, and
acknowledged that it helps relieve some of the debilitating symptoms, such
as nausea, pain, loss of appetite associated with serious illness.

Despite Federal admonitions against marijuana, the American people
support medical marijuana and pretty overwhelmingly. Most national polls
show the support around 70 percent.

This amendment is not necessarily about the actual medical purpose of
marijuana, though I know scores of doctors have attested to marijuana’s
medical benefits. In States where medical marijuana is legal, thousands of
licensed physicians have recommended marijuana to their patients. This
amendment is not about legalizing drugs, though some will argue that it
should be.

No. What this amendment is about is States rights. In so many areas we
trust States rights. And I think of us here in the United States Congress.
We allowed States to draw our district boundary lines.

We allow States to set the fee we have to pay to run for office. We allow
the States to create the primary procedures for getting elected to Congress.
We allow the States to fashion Medicaid packages. We allow States to license
doctors to practice. We trust the States to do what is best for their
residents of that State. When it comes to health care policy or palliative
care, the care of alleviating pain, nine States of the United States have
determined that it is appropriate public policy to allow the use of
marijuana as a prescribed treatment.

If Congress respects States rights in so many other areas, why does it
not respect it with regard to medical marijuana?
[Begin Insert]

Mr. Chairman, this amendment would prevent the Federal Government from
interfering with state medical marijuana laws. It would end the DEA raids on
medical marijuana patients and caregivers who are acting in accordance with
state law. It would not–let me repeat–it would not prevent the DEA from
arresting individuals who are involved in marijuana-related activities
unconnected to medical use.

Here is the simple question posed by this amendment: Should the Federal
Government arrest individuals who are trying to alleviate their own
suffering or the suffering of others in compliance with state law?

I am only too familiar with the tension between DEA law enforcement and
state and locally-sanctioned marijuana cooperatives in California. On
September 5, 2002 in Santa Cruz, California–my district–dozens of heavily
armed DEA agents stormed into the home of Valerie and Mike Corral where the
cooperative garden of the Wo/Men’s Alliance for Medical Marijuana (WAMM), a
medical marijuana hospice, is tended by collective members. They destroyed
167 plants, which would have been distributed–free of charge–to more than
200 seriously and terminally ill WAMM members. Although the Corrals did not
resist, the agents pointed loaded rifles to their heads, forced them to the
ground, and handcuffed their hands behind their backs. The DEA agents kept
them handcuffed in their home for 4 hours before taking them 30 miles to the
Federal courthouse in San Jose where they were eventually released without
being charged. Meanwhile, Federal agents handcuffed the Corral’s over-night
guest, Suzanne Pfeil, a WAMM member who was disabled by polio, and detained
two other members, one with AIDS and a caregiver. Pfeil happened to be
sleeping when the raid occurred. Despite the fact that her leg braces and
crutches were in plain sight, the agents demanded she stand, which she was
unable to do with her hands cuffed. Pfeil’s blood pressure shot up and she
experienced chest pains. Agents then refused to call an ambulance. All this
pain, confusion and fear–yet WAMM was operating with the full knowledge and
consent of state and local authorities.

Many people who oppose medical marijuana say that there is only anecdotal
evidence of its effectiveness. But these anecdotes cannot be simply
dismissed; they are the stories of real people who are suffering. Just this
morning in Roll Call, there was a powerful example of this. Talk show host
Montel Williams discussed his struggle to live with excruciating pain caused
by multiple sclerosis. Montel Williams, a former Marine and decorated naval
officer, who made anti-drug PSA’s for the White House drug czar’s office,
explained in this article that marijuana is the “only” drug that allows
him to function on a day-to-day basis. Now if he is using marijuana with his
doctor’s advice and is following state law, why on earth should we waste
Federal resources trying to prevent him from alleviating his own pain? And
taking it a step further, if someone else is growing that marijuana for him
and is following state law why should we take that medicine away from him by
interfering with the grower?

The answer most opponents of this amendment will give is that marijuana
simply is not a medicine. But this had become an absurd claim. First of all,
both the Netherlands and Canada have enacted

medical marijuana laws, with marijuana available at pharmacies in the
Netherlands. In the United States, nine states have medical marijuana laws
that allow doctors to recommend marijuana to their patients. And in those
states, hundreds of doctors have recommended marijuana to thousands of
patients.

Even our Federal Government has acknowledged the therapeutic benefits of
marijuana. In 1999, the National Academy of Sciences’ Institute of Medicine
conducted a study funded by the White House Office of National Drug Policy.
The principle investigator from the study said upon its completion, “We
concluded that there are some limited circumstances in which we recommend
smoking marijuana for medical use.” An even stronger endorsement came from
the DEA in 1988. Then, Administrative Law Judge Francis Young, after an
exhaustive, 2-year study of marijuana, called for its rescheduling on the
grounds that “marijuana, in its natural form, is one of the safest
therapeutically active substances known to man.” He concluded, even 60
years ago, that marijuana offered a “currently accepted medical use in
treatment.”

Over the past year, medical marijuana has gained even wider acceptance.
It has been endorsed by the American Nurses Association, whose 2.6 million
members care for the Nation’s most seriously ill patients; by the United
Methodist Church, the Nation’s third largest religious denomination; by the
New York and Rhode Island Medical Societies; and by many other health care
organizations. Other longtime supporters of medical marijuana include the
New England Journal of Medicine, the American Bar Association, and the
American Public Health Association.

Do opponents of this amendment honestly believe the American Nurses
Association, the New York State Medical Society, United Methodist Church,
the Episcopal Church, and others are supporting this issue because they hope
to legalize marijuana for all purposes? Of course that isn’t the reason.
These organizations support legal access to marijuana for medical purposes
because they know one simple fact: it helps sick people.

Other opponents of this amendment say that they will not support medical
marijuana until more research is complete. The problem is that the Federal
Government has effectively blocked research. To cite just one example, in
July 2001, the University of Massachusetts applied to the DEA for a license
to manufacture marijuana for medical research. This is the same kind of
license a company called GW Pharmaceuticals applied for in England a few
years ago. While GW Pharmaceuticals has now concluded Phase III trials and
is nearing market approval for its marijuana spray, the DEA–3 years
later–has not even bothered to deny the University of Massachusetts’
license. Of course, they have not granted it, either. They have just let the
application sit in limbo.

Another application to the Federal Government, requesting permission to
import just 10 grams of marijuana for research has languished for 10 months.
Does our government think 10 grams of marijuana is going to increase the
drug problem in this Nation? Of course not. The Federal goal seems to be to
purposely to block research that would prove–or disprove, once and for
all–that marijuana has therapeutic benefits.

But let’s assume for a minute that all of the obstacles to research were
suddenly removed. That does not get us past the immediate question: Should
the Federal Government, over the course of the

next year, while research is proceeding, arrest patients and caregivers
who are complying with state law in order to alleviate their own suffering
or the suffering of others?

Another objection raised by opponents of this amendment is that passing
it would send the wrong message to children. It would make children think
that marijuana is not dangerous. Let me tell you something. Children know
how dangerous marijuana is already. Allowing seriously ill patients to use
it will not change that. And associating the use of marijuana with AIDS and
chemotherapy is not likely to increase its appeal. On the other hand, if you
deny cancer, AIDS, and MS patients the opportunity to use this drug to
alleviate their pain–while permitting the medical use of powerful addictive
drugs like vicodin and oxycontin–the only message you are sending to
children is that you are intellectually dishonest and completely lacking in
compassion.

The truth is, where medical marijuana is legal, there has been no
increase in marijuana
[Page: H5302]  GPO’s PDF

use among teens. In fact, in my home state of California, teen use of
marijuana has dropped 34 percent among 7th graders, 44 percent among 9th
graders, and 21 percent among 11th graders since the California medical
marijuana initiative passed in 1996. The same Institute of Medicine study
described earlier noted, “there is no evidence that the medical marijuana
debate has altered adolescents’ perceptions of the risks associated with
marijuana use.” Listen closely today to hear whether opponents of this
amendment back their warning about sending the wrong message to children
with any evidence demonstrating that medical use has caused a change in
attitude about recreational use; I doubt there will be any with any
scientific weight.

Mr. Chairman, this amendment is reasonably drafted and built on scientific
evidence, judicial review, and medical studies. It reflects the grass roots
demand and legislative will of nine of our United States. It is time for
Congress to recognize the powerful dynamics of this issue and adopt my
amendment.
[End Insert]

Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance of my time.

Mr. WOLF. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself 1 minute.

Mr. Chairman, I rise in strong opposition to this amendment. This is a
bad amendment. It will be bad for the country.

Marijuana is the most abused drug in the United States. According to the
Department of Health and Human Services, more young people are now in
treatment for marijuana dependency than for alcohol or for all other legal
drugs combined. The amendment does not address the problem of marijuana
abuse and possibly, perhaps probably, makes it worse by sending a message to
young people that there can be health benefits from smoking marijuana.

In testimony before the Committee on Government Reform, the DEA provided
an example of how marijuana trafficking is occurring under the guise of
medicine. And there is so much more I could say, and we have the gentleman
from Indiana (Mr. Souder) here and the gentleman from California (Mr. Ose).
This is not a good amendment. The message that this sends to the young
people is absolutely wrong. This was overwhelmingly defeated the last time
it came up. I urge defeat of the amendment.

Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance of my time.

Mr. FARR. Mr. Chairman I yield 3 minutes and 15 seconds to the gentleman
from California (Mr. Rohrabacher).

Mr. ROHRABACHER. Mr. Chairman, today I call for a broad coalition of my
colleagues to support the Hinchey-Rohrabacher amendment to H.R. 4754,
introduced by the gentleman from California (Mr. Farr).

Over the past 8 years, 10 States have adopted laws that decriminalize the
use of marijuana for medical purposes. These States have passed these laws
to allow the use of marijuana to relieve intense pain that accompanies
several debilitating diseases, including AIDS, cancer, multiple sclerosis,
and glaucoma. In seven of these States, such as my own State of California,
these laws were adopted by a direct referendum of the people.

The Federal Government, however, has made it nearly impossible for these
States to implement their own laws, the laws that the people voted for. The
DEA has conducted numerous raids on homes of medical marijuana users,
prosecuting patients who were using marijuana in accordance with State law
to relieve intense pain and other symptoms caused by a variety of illnesses.
Despite these State laws, the Justice Department is working overtime to put
sick people and those who would help them in jail.

It is time for the Federal Government to respect the rights of individual
States to determine their own health and criminal justice policies on this
matter. A growing movement of Americans from conservative to liberal is
calling for the Federal Government to keep its hands off the States that
wish to allow their citizens to use marijuana for medical purposes. In my
State, the people have spoken overwhelmingly. Both Republican and Democrat
counties voted for medical freedom. Our new Governor, Arnold Schwarzenegger,
has made it clear in regard to the Federal Government’s interference with
California’s medical marijuana policy in his message to Washington, and what
is it? It is “Hasta la vista, baby.” Even more poignant, Tom McClintock,
Arnold’s leading conservative opponent in the recent recall election, has
spoken out even more strongly against the Federal interference with
California’s medical marijuana laws. The Governor of Maryland also, our
former Republican colleague, Robert Ehrlich, has signed Maryland’s new
medical marijuana law and has lobbied Members of Congress on this issue.

As a conservative, I am increasingly troubled by the federalization of
criminal law that has occurred in recent years. It seems that more and more
crimes are being declared to be Federal crimes. While sometimes this is
appropriate, for example in immigration law, which is a federally mandated
issue by our Constitution, but criminal justice constitutionally is the
domain of the State and local government. This is especially true when the
people of these many States determine by their own vote the policy
concerning this specific personal behavior.

It is time for the conservatives and liberals to join together in calling
for the Federal Government to keep its hands off. Liberals, moderates, and
conservatives should unite in order to protect the freedom of our people.
This is a freedom issue, and it is also a humanitarian issue. We should make
sure that the local people have a right to determine if the doctors in their
community, and that is what we are talking about, the doctors are able to
prescribe marijuana for people who are suffering from AIDS and suffering
from cancer and other types of diseases. This is not fair, and it is not
humane to go the other way; and it is un-American to centralize this type of
criminal justice matter in the hands of Federal bureaucrats rather than the
people who vote in our specific communities.

Mr. WOLF. Mr. Chairman, I yield 1 minute to the gentleman from Texas (Mr.
Burgess).

Mr. BURGESS. Mr. Chairman, I would just like to point out that as a
physician before I came to Congress, medical marijuana is actually not
necessary because the active ingredient in medical marijuana is
delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol. This is a compound that is readily available
not in a handful of States as medical marijuana is, but in every State of
the Union. It is legal today. It is called Marinol. It is a pill. It is easy
to take. And people who suffer from cancer, people who have anorexia from
chemotherapy, people who suffer from AIDS may use Marinol today to their
benefit.

Mr. Chairman, it just challenges the imagination. As a physician, I wrote
a lot of prescriptions for morphine for patients who were in pain. I would
have never recommended to a patient that they go home and score some opium
and smoke it. That would be an inappropriate way for them to deliver the
drug.

[Time: 20:15]

This drug is delivered in a humane and compassionate way. It is delivered
in a way that deals with the symptoms it is designed to deal with, and we do
not explode the drug culture in this country by doing so.

Mr. FARR. Mr. Chairman, I yield 1 minute to the gentleman from Texas (Mr.
Paul).

Mr. PAUL. Mr. Chairman, I thank the gentleman for yielding me time.

Mr. Chairman, I, too, am a physician from Texas, but I have a little
different opinion about Marinol. No doctor that I know of ever prescribes
Marinol.

I think marijuana is a helpful medical treatment for the people who have
intractable nausea. I would like to point out this is not something strange
that we are suggesting here. For the first 163 years of our history in this
country, the Federal Government had total hands off, they never interfered
with what the States were doing. They interfered only after 1938 through tax
law. So this is something new.

The States’ rights issue is almost a dead issue in the Congress, but we
ought to continue to talk about it, and I am delighted somebody has brought
this up.

But if you do have compassion and care for patients, they ought to have a
freedom of choice. I think that is what this is all about, freedom of
choice.

I would like to point out one statistic. One year prior to 9/11 there
were 750,000 arrests of people who used marijuana; there was one arrest for
a suspect that was committing terrorism.
[Page: H5303]  GPO’s PDF

Now, that, to me, is a misdirected law enforcement program that we could
help address here by at least allowing the States to follow the laws that
they already have on the books.

Mr. WOLF. Mr. Chairman, I yield 1 minute to the gentleman from Georgia
(Mr. Burns).

Mr. BURNS. Mr. Chairman, in 2001, the FDA approved the pain killer
OxyContin, knowing that it had a high probability of being diverted for
illicit use. We felt that the gain was worth the risk. The abuse,
unfortunately, of OxyContin is now a nationwide epidemic.

In spite of the fact that, unlike OxyContin, there are safe and effective
and legal alternatives to smoking pot for pain relief, we are now
considering the use of marijuana for its medical purposes.

The active ingredient, as the gentleman from Texas (Mr. Burgess) pointed
out, is readily available in an FDA-approved capsule. This pill delivers
THC, it does not carry the dangers inherent with smoking marijuana, nor does
it undermine the law enforcement efforts that fight illegal drug use.

Mr. Chairman, the legalization of medical marijuana is simply the first
step in a scheme to overturn all the substance abuse laws that we work hard
to enforce today. We need to vote “no” on legalization of marijuana and
its use in America.

Mr. WOLF. Mr. Chairman, I yield 1 minute of the 3 minutes to the
gentleman from California (Mr. Ose)

Mr. OSE. Mr. Chairman, I thank the gentleman for yielding me time.

Mr. Chairman, I rise in absolute, 100 percent opposition to this
amendment. I have listened to the arguments of my friends from Texas and my
friend from California in one case and my friend from California in the
other, and I have to say that their argument on States’ rights is a unique
application as it relates to so-called “medical marijuana.” But I have not
yet heard a single bit of testimony dealing with whether or not there is any
medical value to the application of marijuana in this case.

Now, the so-called phrase “medical marijuana” is a misnomer. It was
invented by the people who passed the proposition in California that,
frankly, hoodwinked the voters of California into voting in favor of it. But
I just want to run through a couple of things here.

The FDA looks at all sorts of prescription drugs and pharmacological
treatments, and they have looked at marijuana, and by and large, we have
deferred to the FDA on all these analyses. But, all of a sudden, when it
comes to so-called “medical marijuana,” the FDA is no longer competent.
But I do want to enter into the RECORD that the FDA, in fact, did look at
marijuana as a medical substance and found absolutely no value whatsoever to
its use.

Now, the FDA has, in fact, looked at Marinol, in which the active
ingredient in so-called “medical marijuana” is present, THC, and has
approved that for use in treating nausea and pain and the like, and it is
readily available by prescription, a true prescription, from a doctor.

Let us dwell for a minute in California, which I am familiar with, on
this so-called “medical marijuana” and the facade that people go through
to obtain it.

First of all, the referendum requires that a doctor issue a so-called
prescription. However, the doctor refuses to issue a prescription on a
prescription form for so-called medical marijuana. They write it on a piece
of blank paper, because the doctors know that it is not a prescription, it
is a facade perpetrated upon the people of California that this has any
medical qualities whatsoever.

Now, my friend from Indiana is going to share with you the story of a
tragic occurrence in San Francisco, and I am not going to jump the gun on
him, because this is absolutely heartbreaking, what he is going to tell you.
But I do want to tell you, that incident is not singular in nature.

The fact of the matter is we have children, young people across this
country, watching you and me and our peers across this country as it relates
to the use of so-called medical marijuana, and if you think for one minute
that they are going to turn a blind eye to our acquiescence, that just
because it happens to be a little bit difficult to tell people “No, you are
not going to be able to smoke dope,” just because it happens to be a little
bit difficult to tell people that, that we are going to roll over and pass
this prohibition on funds, just begs the imagination about what leadership
really constitutes.

Mr. WOLF. Mr. Chairman, who has the right to close?

The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman from Virginia has the right to close.

PARLIAMENTARY INQUIRY

Mr. FARR. Mr. Chairman, I have a parliamentary inquiry.

The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman will state his parliamentary inquiry.

Mr. FARR. Mr. Chairman, I thought the author of the amendment has the
right to close.

The CHAIRMAN. The chairman of the subcommittee, controlling time in
opposition to the amendment, has the right to close.

The gentleman from California (Mr. Farr) has 1 3/4 minutes remaining, and
the gentleman from Virginia (Mr. Wolf) has 4 minutes remaining.

Mr. FARR. Mr. Chairman, I yield 1 minute to the gentlewoman from
California (Ms. Woolsey).

Ms. WOOLSEY. Mr. Chairman, I rise in support of this amendment because my
mother had glaucoma and we bought her marijuana because it was a relief, and
that was before this bill was passed in the State of California.

I support this amendment because it respects State authority, because the
people in our State believe medical marijuana is a way to relieve those
suffering from cancer, from glaucoma, from AIDS, from spastic disorders and
other debilitating diseases.

This amendment will do only one thing: It will stop the Justice
Department from punishing those who are abiding by their State laws. It
changes no law.

Mr. Chairman, I ask my colleagues, support this amendment so that those
who suffer from debilitating diseases can get the relief that they need, and
they can get it without fear of the Federal Government.

Mr. FARR. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself the balance of my time.

Mr. Chairman, I would like to respond to the comment of the gentleman
from Virginia (Mr. Wolf). I am going to read here that in the State of
California, teen use of marijuana has dropped 34 percent among seventh
graders, 44 percent among ninth graders and 21 percent among eleventh
graders since the California medical marijuana initiative passed in 1996.

Also, I would like to point out that this is not such a radical
amendment. It only affects the States that have State laws, that have the
enforcement. We have not heard from law enforcement opposing this. We have
heard from the American Nursing Association, the United Methodist Church,
the New York Medical Society, the Rhode Island Medical Society, the New
England Journal of Medicine, the American Bar Association, the American
Public Health Association and the Episcopal Church. They all support this
amendment.

Mr. WOLF. Mr. Chairman, I yield the balance of my time to the gentleman
from Indiana (Mr. Souder).

The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman is recognized for 4 minutes.

(Mr. SOUDER asked and was given permission to revise and extend his
remarks.)

Mr. SOUDER. Mr. Chairman, first, do not let any Member kid themselves; if
you cannot enforce a Federal law, you do not have a Federal law. This would
eliminate our ability to enforce marijuana laws in States that have passed
this.

My friend from California alluded to a very sad case in the State of
California. When we as Members use phrases like “medical marijuana” and
responsible officials imply that drugs like marijuana are medical, tragedies
like this happen.

Irma Perez, age 14, the late Irma Perez, was overdosing on Ecstasy. Her
friends had heard that marijuana was medical, and instead of getting her to
a doctor, where they said she would have been saved, they gave her marijuana
on top of her Ecstasy and she died.

When we have silly debates like this, quite frankly, we bear
responsibility. Yesterday, in Ohio, six people died, including a family of
four, two adults and two children, when a young person on marijuana and
alcohol collided into a truck that hit two other vehicles and killed six
people.
[Page: H5304]  GPO’s PDF

If you have medical marijuana laws, like has happened in a court case in
the State of Oregon, drug testing laws for truck drivers have been thrown
out. It is now being appealed higher, but it is not even clear that you can
be assured that our congressional drug testing law for truck drivers will
stand up, given the way the courts are interpreting this.

In California, we have a doctor that has given 348 patients under this
medical marijuana, including for anxiety and restless leg syndrome. In
Oregon, we have a doctor who gave it to 4,000 people over the last few
years. We have another doctor in California who uses it, we actually had
this person at our hearing, for ADD and hyperactivity, even though she
admitted she has no evidence that it worked for those things, but she felt
it would make them feel better.

You either believe you have an FDA or you do not have an FDA. We hear
about all kinds of other things that FDA cracks down on. Either you have a
national FDA or you do not have an FDA.

Furthermore, just last week in Oakland, California, they pulled over a
group of guys with about 66 pounds of marijuana. They said it was for
medicinal purposes. They found where it was coming from, and they found a
warehouse. In this warehouse, they found millions of dollars of marijuana
where the people started fleeing, and then these advocates of medical
marijuana in California said, Oh, it was so medical.

The person who owned the building had already been busted for
transporting illegal drugs. He had lost his license as a pawnbroker. But,
no, this was medical marijuana. Some estimate that up to 90 percent of the
cases, this is the pro-medical marijuana cases, of marijuana use in
California, would be classified as medical.

That is why we have letters, and I will include these in the records, from
the Community Antidrug Coalition, and Dr. Dean, who coordinates these
efforts, says he opposes it; the Fraternal Order of Police; the Partnership
for a Drug-Free America, who plead on behalf of the drug treatment and
prevention groups in America to oppose this; the Drug-Free America
Foundation; and the U.S. Department of Justice, which is concerned that they
will not be able to enforce any drug laws if we do not allow the Federal
Government to enforce.

We need to defeat this amendment because it is the wrong message to our
youth, it is the wrong message to our law enforcement, it is the wrong
message to our drug treatment people, it is the wrong message to the people
in the streets of their neighborhoods trying to reclaim their often
crime-ridden neighborhoods from drug dealers and addicts in their areas, and
it is, quite frankly, unconstitutional.

We fought a Civil War over nullification. States do not have the right.
If we can have States nullify an existing Federal law, then on what grounds
can this not happen under the same precedent, a lack of enforcement on
environmental laws, of civil rights laws, of the Americans with Disabilities
Act, of any law? Because once a State can nullify a Federal law by saying,
We cannot enforce it, you do not have a Federal system.

This is an amendment fraught with difficulties and should be
overwhelmingly defeated by both sides for a multitude of reasons.
—————-
MAPS_Forum@maps.org, a member service of the Multidisciplinary Association
for Psychedelic Studies (see www.maps.org/cgi-bin/thatsanorder_LE ).

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From: “Mark Corcoran” <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] rootbark potency…
Date: July 8, 2004 at 10:14:58 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

So I’m guessing you got my other email? Hope to hear from you soon.  -Mark
—– Original Message —–
From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 9:46 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] rootbark potency…

In a message dated 7/8/04 6:35:59 PM, mcorcoran27@hotmail.com writes:

what do you guys know about “Voacanga Africana” ? this is my first post
on this site. Hi Howard. Sorry to say things are still not good and I
just
want off this damn program!!! If what I understand is true and Voacanga
Africana
is Reported to contain voacangine (carbomethoxy-ibogaine), ibogamin, plus
many other unidentified alkaloids in the root & trunk bark, leaves and
seeds. The total alkaloid fraction is said to be slightly toxic, acting
as CNS depressants & hypotensives. And totally legal to possess in this
counrty
why arent more people going this route?

Because no one has found it effective.

Howard

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] rootbark potency…
Date: July 8, 2004 at 9:46:51 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/8/04 6:35:59 PM, mcorcoran27@hotmail.com writes:

what do you guys know about “Voacanga Africana” ? this is my first post
on this site. Hi Howard. Sorry to say things are still not good and I just
want off this damn program!!! If what I understand is true and Voacanga
Africana
is Reported to contain voacangine (carbomethoxy-ibogaine), ibogamin, plus
many other unidentified alkaloids in the root & trunk bark, leaves and
seeds. The total alkaloid fraction is said to be slightly toxic, acting
as CNS depressants & hypotensives. And totally legal to possess in this
counrty
why arent more people going this route?

Because no one has found it effective.

Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Mark Corcoran” <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] rootbark potency…
Date: July 8, 2004 at 7:35:05 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

what do you guys know about “Voacanga Africana” ? this is my first post on
this site. Hi Howard. Sorry to say things are still not good and I just want
off this damn program!!! If what I understand is true and Voacanga Africana
is Reported to contain voacangine (carbomethoxy-ibogaine), ibogamin, plus
many other unidentified alkaloids in the root & trunk bark, leaves and
seeds. The total alkaloid fraction is said to be slightly toxic, acting as
CNS depressants & hypotensives. And totally legal to possess in this counrty
why arent more people going this route?

—– Original Message —–
From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 6:58 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] rootbark potency…

If you want to do ibo bro, why not do hcl or if you want extract get
the indra?

Not saying the ethnogarden batch is going to be bunk, but they don’t
look to
have had a lot of luck with good quality. I don’t think I’ve seen one
person ever
post here that they were happy with what they paid for.

Peace out
Curtis

On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 15:40:39 -0700 “jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu> wrote:
In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3
seconds….

3% to 6% is what the literature indicates for root bark potency
in general.
The question is, what is the percentage of ibogaine in the product
ethnogarden
is selling now.  The difference between 3% and 6% is 100% increase
in potency
from the lesser amount to the greater amount.

Which then leaves the question if ethnogarden has tested the product
they are
now selling.

Thanx Howard =)

So I suppose saying it’s 3-6 % isn’t a whole lot better than saying
“we
don’t know”…

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
http://www.hushmail.com/services-messenger?l=434

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From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] new MAPS with more ibogaine
Date: July 8, 2004 at 7:16:51 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This has been out for a few weeks at least bro, they haven’t gotten it
together to put it online
yet. MAPS works in a different time then the rest of the world.

I don’t think the Deborah and Patrick, Howard, anything needs comments.
What is anyone
saying except people are being who they are. No news there. Take ibo
out of the picture and
every one is still the same. Dr, Mash is Dr. Mash, Howard is Howard,
Patrick is a cult of
personality 🙂

What I very much enjoyed was the Towards a Science of Consciousness articles
in this issue.
They are hitting close to home for me and my own ways of dealing with
everything and
transpersonal psych. Lot of good news especially the Peter Jenning MDMA
special which was
so good I was amazed they aired it! 🙂

Welcome to all the new people here I haven’t seen before, started reading
again after taking a
break for a while. Lot of opiate self help or opioid if all of you prefer
🙂

I am sorry if this posts twice in a row or the formatting is strange,
I am having problems
getting hushmail to send today or set any screen formatting. I need to
download a new
version of java I think.

Peace out
Curtis

On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 18:34:01 -0700 Slip Stream <slipstream@hipplanet.com>
wrote:
Got the new MAPS today. Good story about the Mexican and Canadian

ibogaine clinics and another about the ibogaine movie from Ben

Deloenan. He’s also @mindvox.

No Deborah and Patrick show, only people I recognize in the photos
are
Patrick, Howard and Stan Glick. Also mentions the Mexican and Canadian

clinics.

KLM ever? Kroupa Lotsof Mash? 😉

She won’t appear unless its only about her will she? Or with Patrick

who makes her look like a saint. No disrespect only observation.

Patrick, would she appear if we changed the alphabet so it was Mash,

Lotsof, Kroupa? 🙂

-SS

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
http://www.hushmail.com/services-messenger?l=434

Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
http://www.hushmail.com/about-affiliate?l=427

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From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] rootbark potency…
Date: July 8, 2004 at 6:58:23 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

If you want to do ibo bro, why not do hcl or if you want extract get
the indra?

Not saying the ethnogarden batch is going to be bunk, but they don’t
look to
have had a lot of luck with good quality. I don’t think I’ve seen one
person ever
post here that they were happy with what they paid for.

Peace out
Curtis

On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 15:40:39 -0700 “jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu> wrote:
In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

3% to 6% is what the literature indicates for root bark potency
in general.
The question is, what is the percentage of ibogaine in the product
ethnogarden
is selling now.  The difference between 3% and 6% is 100% increase
in potency
from the lesser amount to the greater amount.

Which then leaves the question if ethnogarden has tested the product
they are
now selling.

Thanx Howard =)

So I suppose saying it’s 3-6 % isn’t a whole lot better than saying
“we
don’t know”…

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
http://www.hushmail.com/services-messenger?l=434

Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
http://www.hushmail.com/about-affiliate?l=427

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From: “jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] rootbark potency…
Date: July 8, 2004 at 6:40:39 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

3% to 6% is what the literature indicates for root bark potency in general.
The question is, what is the percentage of ibogaine in the product ethnogarden
is selling now.  The difference between 3% and 6% is 100% increase in potency
from the lesser amount to the greater amount.

Which then leaves the question if ethnogarden has tested the product they are
now selling.

Thanx Howard =)

So I suppose saying it’s 3-6 % isn’t a whole lot better than saying “we
don’t know”…

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Fwd: Senlis Council: AIDS crisis linked to defective economic model
Date: July 8, 2004 at 6:32:47 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thought you might find this interesting.

Howard

From: Peter Watney <petrew@pcug.org.au>
Subject: Re: Senlis Council: AIDS crisis linked to defective economic model
Date: July 8, 2004 at 6:23:00 PM EDT
To: drctalk@drcnet.org

On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 20:37:13 +0200, Peter Webster wrote:

Insufficient policy integration and a bad economic model at the
international level are hindering a proper response to the ever-growing
HIV/AIDS epidemic, said The Senlis Council, an international drug policy
think tank, on the release of the 2004 Report on the global AIDS epidemic
today by UNAIDS (the Joint United Nations Programme on HIV/AIDS). According
to the report, the number of people living with HIV/AIDS increased in every
region of the world in 2003, with almost five million cases of new
infections. It also classes HIV/AIDS as the biggest epidemic that the world
has ever known.

The think tank called for a realignment of the policies and the economic
model behind international drug policy, saying that too much is still being
spent on law enforcement, instead of public health policies.

In discussing an economic alleviation of the epidemic, they do not
discuss the role of prohibition in causing and spreading the epidemic.

Every legal substance sold on the world’s markets is promoted in order
to maximise profits.

Why do we fail to realise that illegal substances are also promoted in
order to maximise profits, and further, that the profits available from
illegal substances are far greater?

Consider the economics of heroin, perhaps the preeminent spreader of
HIV/AIDS when injected.

Farmers in marginal areas, where banking is unavailable, and farm
investment has no other source of funds, are paid ten times as much for
opium as they are for food crops, so inevitably they grow opium.

At every perilous step along the route to the customer, the profit
available is greater than for similar legal goods, and is thus a strong
incentive to market heroin.

Users are funneled into a pyramid sales system in order to minimise the
risk of detection. A proportion of new users become dependent on heroin,
thus become increasingly regular users of the drug.

Few of these dependent users can afford the cost out of their normal
income, so they feel compelled to fund their use by one illegal means or
another.

Some fund their use by prostitution, some by property crime, and some by
selling the drug.

Those who fund their use by selling must either take over from a
departing seller (whether rehabilitated or jailed), but most need to
find new users, and it is easier to find new users amongst the
vulnerable and disaffected young.

Some of the new users become dependent users and …

I have touched on the comparative economics for the grower in Colombia,
Afghanistan or the Golden Triangle, who is tempted by a massive
advantage in growing opium over food crops.

The same happens at every step along the trade route.

As an example, by the time that heroin reaches the street in Australia
at the end of its journey from the Golden Triangle, through Yunnan to
Hong Kong to Sydney, to Cabramatta, to X Street in Y Town it is sold to
the end user for $A400 to $A600 a gram.

Pyramid sales mark ups mean that a user funding his/her use by selling
to others requires quite a few buyers to fund his or her own use.

Comparing the cost of heroin to the cost of legal gold, gold is priced
at about $A18.50 per gram, so heroin is at least 20 times more valuable
than gold.

Comparing the cost with a substance like codeine that is sold legally by
pharmacists under prescription, and after approximately the same
manufacturing and distribution inherent costs, heroin is offering at
least 400 times the incentive as for codeine.

Prohibition is the most effective marketer of prohibited goods that
could possibly be devised.

Furthermore, in order to increase the chances against the efforts of Law
and Order to reduce the flow of illicit substances, vulnerable Law and
Order officers of every description are discovered and bribed, thus
perverting the justice on which civilisation depends.

The Extra Terrestrials would scratch and shake their heads in wonder!

———————————————————
Peter Watney                Internet : petrew@pcug.org.au
30A Kellermann Close        Homepage : peterwatney.com
Holt  ACT  2615  Australia  Telephone: +61-2-6254-1914
———————————————————

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] rootbark potency…
Date: July 8, 2004 at 6:30:43 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/8/04 2:52:08 PM, jfreed1@umbc.edu writes:

Ethnogarden claims that their new batch of iboga root contains 3 – 6 %
alkaloids.

3% to 6% is what the literature indicates for root bark potency in general.
The question is, what is the percentage of ibogaine in the product ethnogarden
is selling now.  The difference between 3% and 6% is 100% increase in potency
from the lesser amount to the greater amount.

Which then leaves the question if ethnogarden has tested the product they are
now selling.

Howard

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From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: [ibogaine] rootbark potency…
Date: July 8, 2004 at 3:52:02 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey folks,

I may have posted this already, so sorry if i’m repeating myself, but…

Ethnogarden claims that their new batch of iboga root contains 3 – 6 %
alkaloids.

Can anyone tell me if that is a reasonable potency?

thanx very much

jon

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] HCV – was – Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW
Date: July 8, 2004 at 3:41:53 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/8/04 1:29:10 PM, UUSEAN@aol.com writes:

Thanks for the info.  And yes, it is a crime that science is blackmailed
by politics in this way.  I have since found out that my doctor was following
NIH guidelines concerning the treatment of drug users and hepC.

Sean,

I have a meeting and have to get out of here now but, I did a quick search
because I do not believe your doctor is following nih guidelines.

http://www.guideline.gov/summary/summary.aspx?view_id=1&doc_id=3243&nbr=2469

I may have missed it or you may have another document.  If so please provide
but, I don’t see where it says active drug users should not be treated.

Thanks

Howard

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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW
Date: July 8, 2004 at 2:28:27 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Howard,

Thanks for the info.  And yes, it is a crime that science is blackmailed by politics in this way.  I have since found out that my doctor was following NIH guidelines concerning the treatment of drug users and hepC.  There is however a growing number of doctors and harm reduction workers trying to change these guidelines, calling them both unethical and not scientifically proven.  Again, it sounds like politics to me.

It also seems like politicians are the last to get on board with issues like medical marijuana, never mind legalization.  The bill to stop prosecuting medical marijuana patients failed in the House today.  The same crap was put forth about “sending the wrong message” concerning drug use.  I imagine ibogaine research continues to come up against the same political madness.  I think it may take another 10 years or more to see any real change on most of these issues. I am getting more educated on how NORML and High Times helped to screw things up in the seventies, when there was a shot at true progress.

sean

From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW
Date: July 8, 2004 at 2:14:02 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jon,

If I had not agreed to confidentiality before the presentation at a
special
meeting you and a lot of other people would have the source right now.

Howard

Oh yeah, I certainly wouldn’t ask you to break confidentiality.

It’s just awfully depressing to hear about the government censoring
science.. I mean, I know it happens all the time, but when I see I
specific example of it…well, it makes me feel like we’re still living in
the days of Galileo and the Inquisition…

in many respects, i suppose we are…

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW
Date: July 8, 2004 at 2:08:35 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/8/04 12:36:13 PM, jfreed1@umbc.edu writes:

I am prohibited from telling you the source of this information but,
medical reports that I had the opportunity to see indicated that methadone
patients who smoked marijuana had better results from the standard
interferon/riboviron HCV treatment than methadone patients who did not
smoke >>marijuana.  I indicated to the researcher that it was unethical not to
publish.  As you >>can imagine the researcher did not want to hear that and was
concerned that
publication would effect federal grant funding in the future.

Yay for politics getting in the way of good science and medicine… again..
If by some chance the author does ever decide to publish those findings,
it would be great if you could post the reference..

Jon,

If I had not agreed to confidentiality before the presentation at a special
meeting you and a lot of other people would have the source right now.

Howard

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW
Date: July 8, 2004 at 2:03:16 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Howard,

That was a great post.  You told the truth, a rare commodity nowadays.  Yes, it could effect federal funding so it is not to be published.  What is so wrong with the government?  I mean they don’t even want medical marijuana for nausea.  No one has ever overdosed on pot, it works better than the pills from what I understand and gives many people a good feeling as a side effect.  I really can’t understand why it is illegal.

Seems for the land of the free they sure have some tough and insane drug laws.  I compare this with the dark ages.  I just hope in another 100 years they look back and see how wrong they were.  Years ago they used to believe that masturbation made people crazy and went so far as to put gloves with spikes on peoples hands to MAKE them stop.

Feeling down and need a laugh try this link

http://lyricsandmore.com/d/d_pat/pat_0203/pat_0203.html

Yep, hard to believe.

Thanks again Howard,

– JIM
HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 7/8/04 11:47:26 AM, UUSEAN@aol.com writes:

>I had already gotten clean and am trying stay that way off of crack and
>heroin. And I guess alcohol cannot be part of my harm reduction plan now.
> I am seeing a harm reduction therapist tonight for the first time tonight
actually.
>It looks like marijuana is the one of the few drugs left for me outside
>of the prescription world.

Sean,

I am prohibited from telling you the source of this information but, medical
reports that I had the opportunity to see indicated that methadone patients
who smoked marijuana had better results from the standard interferon/riboviron
HCV treatment than methadone patients who did not smoke marijuana. I indicated
to the researcher that it was unethical not to publish. As you can imagine
the researcher did not want to hear that and was concerned that publication
would effect federal grant funding in the future.

Howard

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Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail is new and improved – Check it out!

From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW
Date: July 8, 2004 at 1:36:02 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I am prohibited from telling you the source of this information but,
medical
reports that I had the opportunity to see indicated that methadone
patients
who smoked marijuana had better results from the standard
interferon/riboviron
HCV treatment than methadone patients who did not smoke marijuana.  I
indicated
to the researcher that it was unethical not to publish.  As you can
imagine
the researcher did not want to hear that and was concerned that
publication
would effect federal grant funding in the future.

Yay for politics getting in the way of good science and medicine… again..

=/

If by some chance the author does ever decide to publish those findings,
it would be great if you could post the reference..

thanx

jon

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW
Date: July 8, 2004 at 1:26:57 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Sean,

Glad to here from you and things are going as good as can be expected.  Yea, alcohol and Hep C is a no brainer.  Maybe I jumpped a little hard on the doc.  I can see her point in not wanting you to use but to cut you off is like yelling at you which we both know doesn’t work.  Many doctors do not believe addicts and alcoholics, and to be honest if I were a doctor I may want to check, that way I know where I stand and what I am up against.  If you ever need anything from her you can say I have always told you the truth before, I am not lying to you now.  I have never lied to my doc.  When he asked me how I got hep C I told him probably shooting up drugs in the 60’s.  Sometimes they ask if you ever had a transfussion or come in contact with blood.  Well you can lie, but when they see your arms and the tracks they know.  After all their doctors not dummies, lying makes things worse.  You did the right thing, specially since you were clean – LOL.

So your clean on the coke, heroin and alcohol, that’s GREAT.  Do you know how many people wish they could say the same thing, specially me.  Keep it up, good buddy, keep it up.  I know, I know eaiser said than done, but what else can I say?  Do whatever works for you.  I am wishing you the best and I am sure everyone else is too.  It’s like were all in the same boat.

Keep in touch,

– JIM

UUSEAN@aol.com wrote:

Hi Jim,

Actually the group of doctors I am seeing are considered the best in this area (northern NJ) for HIV.  They also have an office in Manhattan.  I was there this morning and told her my feelings about the urine test, which I did give because I know it would come up clean, as annoyed as I was about her not believing me.

She is, of course treating my HIV, but she claims that she cannot get an accurate biopsy until six months after I stop using drugs and alcohol.  I assume she means hard drugs.  Cutting out alcohol does seem like a no brainer with hepatitis.  She also said that HIV accelerated the progression of the virus.

I had already gotten clean and am trying stay that way off of crack and heroin.  And I guess alcohol cannot be part of my harm reduction plan now.  I am seeing a harm reduction therapist tonight for the first time tonight actually.  It looks like marijuana is the one of the few drugs left for me outside of the prescription world.

Anyway, thanks for your concern, and giving me a chance to vent.  And thanks to the list for all your support.  I will come out of this an ibogaine, stop the war on addicts activist out all this, I am sure of it.

Thanks,
sean

I

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – 50x more storage than other providers!

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW
Date: July 8, 2004 at 1:11:10 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/8/04 11:47:26 AM, UUSEAN@aol.com writes:

I had already gotten clean and am trying stay that way off of crack and
heroin.  And I guess alcohol cannot be part of my harm reduction plan now.
I am  seeing a harm reduction therapist tonight for the first time tonight
actually.
It looks like marijuana is the one of the few drugs left for me outside
of the prescription world.

Sean,

I am prohibited from telling you the source of this information but, medical
reports that I had the opportunity to see indicated that methadone patients
who smoked marijuana had better results from the standard interferon/riboviron
HCV treatment than methadone patients who did not smoke marijuana.  I indicated
to the researcher that it was unethical not to publish.  As you can imagine
the researcher did not want to hear that and was concerned that publication
would effect federal grant funding in the future.

Howard

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW ::: The dis-ease of christianity
Date: July 8, 2004 at 1:04:04 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/8/04 11:19:41 AM, gboy@hush.com writes:

As far as I understand it all that your doing is changing to another
drug that is legal instead
of using heroin. Whats the point of that or is it because it is legal
and heroin costs too much
so you can keep getting high and not be bothered?

The second part I dont understand is, who cares about any of this. What
I meant is why is
anyone so excited about subutex or whatev new legal drug comes out, who
cares? Why is any
of it any different or better then methadone.

Tell me if i’m wrong but your still addicted, still getting high on it,
so why dont the
government or fda or whoever make it all legal, it all does the same
thing.

Hi g.,

The point as you indicate in changing from one drug to another is the
legality.  No more getting busted.  No more jail.  No more street violence.

As for who cares, certainly people who are dependent on opioids care and
treating opioid dependence is a primary use for ibogaine for many people.  There a
re pharmacological differences between methadone and burprenorphine/subutex
and different patients will respond differently to different drugs but, the big
plus in the US is that a doctor can rx subutex to a person dependent on opioid
drugs (heroin) from their office.  The treatment is thus not restricted to a
clinic that for the most part are rather restrictive and treat patients poorly.

As for why the government doesn’t make all drugs legal, well I guess they
just don’t consider it in their interest.  Hopefully, that may change but, I
would not necessary want to have to wait till that happens as I do not see it in
the near future.  Just my opinion.

Howard

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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW
Date: July 8, 2004 at 12:46:45 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Jim,

Actually the group of doctors I am seeing are considered the best in this area (northern NJ) for HIV.  They also have an office in Manhattan.  I was there this morning and told her my feelings about the urine test, which I did give because I know it would come up clean, as annoyed as I was about her not believing me.

She is, of course treating my HIV, but she claims that she cannot get an accurate biopsy until six months after I stop using drugs and alcohol.  I assume she means hard drugs.  Cutting out alcohol does seem like a no brainer with hepatitis.  She also said that HIV accelerated the progression of the virus.

I had already gotten clean and am trying stay that way off of crack and heroin.  And I guess alcohol cannot be part of my harm reduction plan now.  I am seeing a harm reduction therapist tonight for the first time tonight actually.  It looks like marijuana is the one of the few drugs left for me outside of the prescription world.

Anyway, thanks for your concern, and giving me a chance to vent.  And thanks to the list for all your support.  I will come out of this an ibogaine, stop the war on addicts activist out all this, I am sure of it.

Thanks,
sean

I

From: <gboy@hush.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW ::: The dis-ease of christianity
Date: July 8, 2004 at 12:17:56 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—–
Hash: SHA1

No intent to dis anyone a simple question I don’t understand the answer
to. With all this shit
that alot of you are taking, fentanel however it is spelled, methadone,
subutex however it is
spelled, oxycotton.

As far as I understand it all that your doing is changing to another
drug that is legal instead
of using heroin. Whats the point of that or is it because it is legal
and heroin costs too much
so you can keep getting high and not be bothered?

The second part I dont understand is, who cares about any of this. What
I meant is why is
anyone so excited about subutex or whatev new legal drug comes out, who
cares? Why is any
of it any different or better then methadone.

Tell me if i’m wrong but your still addicted, still getting high on it,
so why dont the
government or fda or whoever make it all legal, it all does the same
thing.

To all the peeps who are going to get mad at me and I feel it coming,
sorry I am not a elite
junkie, I’m pro pot which is a simple yes or no, not which one of these
10 strains should be
illegal and which others should be legal or whatev. Its all the same
shit no/

.g

On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 21:54:02 -0700 Michael Maxey <mike2boys@msn.com>
wrote:
Fentanyl how long does it stay in your system? also Is there a way
to
get more of the Duragesic patch Like a Skin  Penetration enhancer?

Seeing the Duragesic goes through your skin is there a way rub a
cream
like menthol  on area thehn put patch on, I am get 10mg of Fentanyl
of
duragesic 100ugh  I need them to work faster sometimes.  any ideas?

Mike
—– Original Message —–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 12:25 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW ::: The dis-ease of

christianity

In a message dated 7/6/04 10:00:55 PM, UUSEAN@aol.com writes:

I remember reading afew years ago that coke takes 72 hours to
clear.
Has
this been proven incorrect?

Metabolism and Detection Time in Urine: In the body cocaine is rapidly
converted to benzoylecgonine and ecgonine-methyl-ester which are

eliminated in the
urine. Only a small fraction of the parent cocaine is eliminated
in
the urine
and its detection time following use is short compared to the cocaine
metabolites. The presence of benzoylecgonine is accepted evidence
of
cocaine use and
can be detected in the urine for as long as 2-5 days after use.

This is just one page but, pick your drug and check it out.

http://www.norchemlab.com/reference/drugindex.htm

Do a google.com search for urine drug screens or drug clearnece
in urine
testing.

Howard

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From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Doctors are just people
Date: July 8, 2004 at 11:31:05 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

One clinic I was in had  Doc that didn’t like me.He thought I was too
educated and middle class to be using Methadone. Obviously he was
predjudiced  and
should not have been the Doc on Staff.

I checked his credentals on line. This license wasn’t active. Methadone
patients should check the people out who have power owver them.

That’s a very very good point. Doctors are prone to the same shortcomings
that everyone else is.. greed, ignorance, and just plain stupidity.

So the patient must take responsibility for his/her own care. If you don’t
feel as though you’re doctor is someone who can help you, FIND A NEW
DOCTOR. Keep looking until you find a doctor that you feel comfortable
with. Good doctors do exist, but it often takes effort and persistance to
find one.

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From: Nowwarat@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Doctors are just people
Date: July 8, 2004 at 10:32:48 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

One clinic I was in had  Doc that didn’t like me.He thought I was too educated and middle class to be using Methadone. Obviously he was predjudiced and should not have been the Doc on Staff.

I checked his credentals on line. This license wasn’t active. Methadone patients should check the people out who have power owver them.

Nowwarat

From: “Allison Senepart” <paradisepaint@call south.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW
Date: July 8, 2004 at 10:03:06 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I always understood it was an offence legally for a doctor to refuse treatment, and other than that definitely against all moral issues and the oath they take when becoming a doctor.  (hippocratic??)
Allison
——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Thursday, 8 July 2004 3:54:43 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW

>

Hi Sean,

Maybe this dr. is honest , she can’t help you, can’t find the medicine
that will fit all your conditions, maybe the side effects are too bad and
she doesn’t like you to die of them, or maybe she is
too stupied ,so go look for a real dr. who remembers why he/she
studied medicine and how to treat the sick,

Sara

Hi Sean,
>
> Did you submit to the urine? My Doc sends me to specialists when I went
> on the interferon and you should go to a specialist for HIV. But when a
> doctor threatens not to see ya I think you may be better off with another
> doc. I think it is a hell of a thing, you got hep c and AIDS and she more
> or less says I don’t want to see you just go some place and die. And even
> if you do use, no shit, that’s part of the problem. Does she ever give
> you anything like pain medication or Valium or things like that? If not
> what the hell ya got to lose. Any doc can give you cough syrup or blood
> pressure pills. I think you experienced what I was talking about, the
> damn junkie ass son of a bitch let him die syndrome. I can sometimes look
> at their face and see it. It is like they get mad and are holding it in
> and I bet their blood pressure goes up too. Yep, I think that’s what
> happened. And I would be willing to bet she finds a reason to dump you.
> Shit, shes as bad as a methadone clini!
> c. Is she
> gonna bitch if you smoke a joint? How long has she been your doc? Just
> don’t go from bad to worse.
>
>
> Best of luck you need it good buddy,
>
> – JIM
>
> UUSEAN@aol.com wrote:
>
> Hi Jim,
>
> When I tested positive for hepC, the cat was out of the bag with my new
> infectious disease doctor. She asked if I did IV drugs…I said I
> have..and then she said, “Well why aren’t you on methadone. I explained
> that I was no longer using everyday, and had in fact stopped using
> everything in the last few weeks.
>
> Further, she said she would not treat the hepC if I was still
> using/drinking, and asked if I would submit to a urine to prove I was
> clean. I think I may need a new doctor.
>
> I too have seen very judgmental pricks in the medical profession in my
> trips for treatment of HIV. I have met afew really compassionate
> nonjudgmental ones as well.
> They were the minority in my experience, however.
>
> Don’t get me started on 12 step drug/alcohol councilors:)
>
> sean
>
> ———————————
> Do you Yahoo!?
> New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – Send%

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.

____________________________________________________
IncrediMail – Email has finally evolved – Click Here

From: “jon grocott” <sjonnygee@msn.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Non-opiate narcotic
Date: July 8, 2004 at 9:50:07 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

ok , this is useful information but the other  45  are just a confusing mess, can you please cancel this subscription…………thanks  !!

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Non-opiate narcotic
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2004 15:55:24 EDT

Howard, From the Norchem link you  posted. Callie

URINE DRUG TEST FACT  SHEET
OPIATES
[_Heroin_ (http://www.norchemlab.com/reference/ds-opiates.htm#heroin) ]
[_Morphine_ (http://www.norchemlab.com/reference/ds-opiates.htm#morphine) ]
[_Codeine_ (http://www.norchemlab.com/reference/ds-opiates.htm#cod) ]
[_Hydrocodone_ (http://www.norchemlab.com/reference/ds-opiates.htm#hydrocod) ]
[_Hydromorphone_ (http://www.norchemlab.com/reference/ds-opiates.htm#hydromo) ]
[_Oxycodone_ (http://www.norchemlab.com/reference/ds-opiates.htm#oxy) ]
Classification: Narcotics
Background: The terms  “narcotics” and “opiates” are often used
interchangeably but are not exactly the  same. Narcotics are drugs that numb the senses and
induce sleepiness. Some  non-opiate drugs also have narcotic properties.
Opiates are compounds derived  from opium, the milky residue of the opium poppy
plant. Opium contains morphine  and codeine in a ratio of about five or ten to
one. The naturally occurring  morphine and codeine can be altered in the
laboratory to produce  “semi-synthetic” opiates, of which there are many. The most
notable  semi-synthetics, heroin, hydrocodone, hydromorphone and oxycodone are
described  in more detail later. Poppy seeds contain enough codeine and
morphine so that  their consumption can cause both morphine and codeine to be
detected in the  urine. Poppy seed consumption rarely results in a morphine level
greater than  2000 ng/ml, whereas use of heroin or morphine usually leads to
much higher  levels.
Legally  Prescribed Forms: The following table lists the most common opiates
and  non-opiate narcotics, along with their trade names. Many of these may be
combined with acetaminophen or aspirin and prescribed in a single tablet.
[_Top_ (http://www.norchemlab.com/reference/ds-opiates.htm#top) ]
Table 1. The  following table contains commonly used opiates and opiate-like
drugs.    Drug Trade Name* Class Legal Use*  Buprenorphine Buprenex Opiate
narcotic Pain relief  Butorphanol Stadol Opiate narcotic Pain relief  Codeine
Empirin, Tylenol 3 Opiate narcotic Pain relief  Dextromethorphan Robitussen DM
Opiate non-narcotic Cough suppression  Heroin None Opiate narcotic No  legal use
Hydrocodone Vicodin, Lortab  Opiate narcotic Pain relief  Hydromorhone
Dilaudid Opiate narcotic Pain relief  Levorphanol Dromoran Opiate narcotic Pain
relief  Meperidine Demerol Non-opiate narcotic Pain relief  Methadone Dolophine
Non-opiate narcotic Opiate dependency  Morphine MS-Contin Opiate narcotic Pain
relief  Nalbuphine Nubian Opiate narcotic Pain relief  Naloxone Narcan Opaite
anti-narcotic Narcotic overdose  Naltrexone Trexan Opiate anti-narcotic
Narcotic overdose  Oxycodone Percodan, Roxicet  Opiate narcotic Pain relief
Oxymorphone Numorphan Opiate narcotic Pain relief  Propoxyphene Darvon Non-opiate
narcotic Pain relief    *  There may be other trade names or legal uses which are
not  listed.

_________________________________________________________________
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From: “jon grocott” <sjonnygee@msn.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Non-opiate narcotic
Date: July 8, 2004 at 9:49:46 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

ok , this is useful information but the other  45  are just a confusing mess, can you please cancel this subscription…………thanks  !!

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Non-opiate narcotic
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2004 15:55:24 EDT

Howard, From the Norchem link you  posted. Callie

URINE DRUG TEST FACT  SHEET
OPIATES
[_Heroin_ (http://www.norchemlab.com/reference/ds-opiates.htm#heroin) ]
[_Morphine_ (http://www.norchemlab.com/reference/ds-opiates.htm#morphine) ]
[_Codeine_ (http://www.norchemlab.com/reference/ds-opiates.htm#cod) ]
[_Hydrocodone_ (http://www.norchemlab.com/reference/ds-opiates.htm#hydrocod) ]
[_Hydromorphone_ (http://www.norchemlab.com/reference/ds-opiates.htm#hydromo) ]
[_Oxycodone_ (http://www.norchemlab.com/reference/ds-opiates.htm#oxy) ]
Classification: Narcotics
Background: The terms  “narcotics” and “opiates” are often used
interchangeably but are not exactly the  same. Narcotics are drugs that numb the senses and
induce sleepiness. Some  non-opiate drugs also have narcotic properties.
Opiates are compounds derived  from opium, the milky residue of the opium poppy
plant. Opium contains morphine  and codeine in a ratio of about five or ten to
one. The naturally occurring  morphine and codeine can be altered in the
laboratory to produce  “semi-synthetic” opiates, of which there are many. The most
notable  semi-synthetics, heroin, hydrocodone, hydromorphone and oxycodone are
described  in more detail later. Poppy seeds contain enough codeine and
morphine so that  their consumption can cause both morphine and codeine to be
detected in the  urine. Poppy seed consumption rarely results in a morphine level
greater than  2000 ng/ml, whereas use of heroin or morphine usually leads to
much higher  levels.
Legally  Prescribed Forms: The following table lists the most common opiates
and  non-opiate narcotics, along with their trade names. Many of these may be
combined with acetaminophen or aspirin and prescribed in a single tablet.
[_Top_ (http://www.norchemlab.com/reference/ds-opiates.htm#top) ]
Table 1. The  following table contains commonly used opiates and opiate-like
drugs.    Drug Trade Name* Class Legal Use*  Buprenorphine Buprenex Opiate
narcotic Pain relief  Butorphanol Stadol Opiate narcotic Pain relief  Codeine
Empirin, Tylenol 3 Opiate narcotic Pain relief  Dextromethorphan Robitussen DM
Opiate non-narcotic Cough suppression  Heroin None Opiate narcotic No  legal use
Hydrocodone Vicodin, Lortab  Opiate narcotic Pain relief  Hydromorhone
Dilaudid Opiate narcotic Pain relief  Levorphanol Dromoran Opiate narcotic Pain
relief  Meperidine Demerol Non-opiate narcotic Pain relief  Methadone Dolophine
Non-opiate narcotic Opiate dependency  Morphine MS-Contin Opiate narcotic Pain
relief  Nalbuphine Nubian Opiate narcotic Pain relief  Naloxone Narcan Opaite
anti-narcotic Narcotic overdose  Naltrexone Trexan Opiate anti-narcotic
Narcotic overdose  Oxycodone Percodan, Roxicet  Opiate narcotic Pain relief
Oxymorphone Numorphan Opiate narcotic Pain relief  Propoxyphene Darvon Non-opiate
narcotic Pain relief    *  There may be other trade names or legal uses which are
not  listed.

_________________________________________________________________
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From: “jon grocott” <sjonnygee@msn.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Okay so DON’T forgive yourself. It’s all the same to me.
Date: July 8, 2004 at 9:38:40 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

who the hell are you ? and what the hell are you jibbering on about ?  – stop sending me this crap !!

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Okay so DON’T forgive yourself.  It’s all the same to me.
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2004 20:19:19 -0700 (PDT)

I think he was pondering why he started posting 😉 4
or 5 messages in 2 days. This means that will be last
thing Patrick writes to the list for the next 5 months
😉

I don’t think it’s personal, years ago he would talk a
lot more even in email or answer the phone or they
would connect you to his office at Mash’s. Then all
the phone numbers changed, nobody answers anything and
patrick stopped talking. I think he got very busy.

I don’t take it personally but I do get jealous
because I know there is always some clique of you on
here who talk to each other all the time and don’t
respond to anyone else 🙁

OTOH sometimes I stop reading for a month and don’t
say anything for 2 either 😉 Still I do think you
could reply to your email once in a while and not take
6 months to do it or write more then two sentences 😉

Carla B

— CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 7/7/2004 5:49:11 PM Central
> Daylight Time,
> digital@phantom.com writes:
>
> Hummm…  Why am I posting to the list today.  Lemme
> go  chainsmoke 10
> cigarettes and ponder this.
>
>
>
> Don’t ponder so much that you quit posting. You are
> very  entertaining at
> times.
> Callie
>

__________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail – 50x more storage than other providers!
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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW ::: The dis-ease of christianity
Date: July 8, 2004 at 7:02:44 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Mike,          I once read the med pamplet that comes with a box of 100s and I remember them talking about not useing heating pads or electric blankets. So maybe holding some heat against it will help. People have died from defeating the patch and taking all the dope at once so be careful.          Randy

From: “Michael Maxey” <mike2boys@msn.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW ::: The dis-ease of christianity
Date: July 8, 2004 at 12:54:02 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Fentanyl how long does it stay in your system? also Is there a way to get more of the Duragesic patch Like a Skin  Penetration enhancer?   Seeing the Duragesic goes through your skin is there a way rub a cream  like menthol  on area thehn put patch on, I am get 10mg of Fentanyl of duragesic 100ugh  I need them to work faster sometimes.  any ideas?   Mike
—– Original Message —–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 12:25 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW ::: The dis-ease of christianity

In a message dated 7/6/04 10:00:55 PM, UUSEAN@aol.com writes:

>I remember reading afew years ago that coke takes 72 hours to clear.  Has
>this been proven incorrect?

Metabolism and Detection Time in Urine: In the body cocaine is rapidly
converted to benzoylecgonine and ecgonine-methyl-ester which are eliminated in the
urine. Only a small fraction of the parent cocaine is eliminated in the urine
and its detection time following use is short compared to the cocaine
metabolites. The presence of benzoylecgonine is accepted evidence of cocaine use and
can be detected in the urine for as long as 2-5 days after use.

This is just one page but, pick your drug and check it out.

http://www.norchemlab.com/reference/drugindex.htm

Do a google.com search for urine drug screens or drug clearnece in urine
testing.

Howard

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW
Date: July 8, 2004 at 12:18:46 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/7/2004 10:32:52 PM Central Daylight Time, jimhadey3@yahoo.com writes:
she said she would not treat the hepC if I was still using/drinking, and asked if I would submit to a urine to prove I was clean.  I think I may need a new doctor.

You probably do need a new Doc but because you don’t seem to like her.
She is probably covering her ass by not wanting to treat you if you are using.
Doctors really have to be careful now. Malpractice insurance is VERY expensive and goes up higher if you ever need to use it!
I am playing devil’s advocate and also giving her the benefit of the doubt in writing this but you should ask her why it matters if you are using or not. You will be able to tell if she is being honest with you  by her answer. Of course there are some doctors who let their personal feelings regarding addiction reflect in their patient care and treatment. They have that right.
If you don’t like her I would try another if you can.
Callie

From: sara119@xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW
Date: July 7, 2004 at 11:54:39 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Sean,

Maybe this dr. is honest , she can’t help you, can’t find the medicine
that will fit all your conditions, maybe the side effects are too bad and
she doesn’t like you to die of them, or maybe she is
too stupied ,so go look for a real dr. who remembers why he/she
studied medicine and how to treat the sick,

Sara

Hi Sean,

Did you submit to the urine?  My Doc sends me to specialists when I went
on the interferon and you should go to a specialist for HIV.  But when a
doctor threatens not to see ya I think you may be better off with another
doc.  I think it is a hell of a thing, you got hep c and AIDS and she more
or less says I don’t want to see you just go some place and die.  And even
if you do use, no shit, that’s part of the problem.  Does she ever give
you anything like pain medication or Valium or things like that?  If not
what the hell ya got to lose.  Any doc can give you cough syrup or blood
pressure pills.  I think you experienced what I was talking about, the
damn junkie ass son of a bitch let him die syndrome.  I can sometimes look
at their face and see it.  It is like they get mad and are holding it in
and I bet their blood pressure goes up too.  Yep, I think that’s what
happened.  And I would be willing to bet she finds a reason to dump you.
Shit, shes as bad as a methadone clini!
c. Is she
gonna bitch if you smoke a joint?  How long has she been your doc?  Just
don’t go from bad to worse.

Best of luck you need it good buddy,

– JIM

UUSEAN@aol.com wrote:

Hi Jim,

When I tested positive for hepC, the cat was out of the bag with my new
infectious disease doctor.   She asked if I did IV drugs…I said I
have..and then she said, “Well why aren’t you on methadone.  I explained
that I was no longer using everyday, and had in fact stopped using
everything in the last few weeks.

Further, she said she would not treat the hepC if I was still
using/drinking, and asked if I would submit to a urine to prove I was
clean.  I think I may need a new doctor.

I too have seen very judgmental pricks in the medical profession in my
trips for treatment of HIV.  I have met afew really compassionate
nonjudgmental ones as well.
They were the minority in my experience, however.

Don’t get me started on 12 step drug/alcohol councilors:)

sean

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW
Date: July 7, 2004 at 11:32:10 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Sean,

Did you submit to the urine?  My Doc sends me to specialists when I went on the interferon and you should go to a specialist for HIV.  But when a doctor threatens not to see ya I think you may be better off with another doc.  I think it is a hell of a thing, you got hep c and AIDS and she more or less says I don’t want to see you just go some place and die.  And even if you do use, no shit, that’s part of the problem.  Does she ever give you anything like pain medication or Valium or things like that?  If not what the hell ya got to lose.  Any doc can give you cough syrup or blood pressure pills.  I think you experienced what I was talking about, the damn junkie ass son of a bitch let him die syndrome.  I can sometimes look at their face and see it.  It is like they get mad and are holding it in and I bet their blood pressure goes up too.  Yep, I think that’s what happened.  And I would be willing to bet she finds a reason to dump you.  Shit, shes as bad as a methadone clinic. Is she gonna bitch if you smoke a joint?  How long has she been your doc?  Just don’t go from bad to worse.

Best of luck you need it good buddy,

– JIM

UUSEAN@aol.com wrote:

Hi Jim,

When I tested positive for hepC, the cat was out of the bag with my new infectious disease doctor.   She asked if I did IV drugs…I said I have..and then she said, “Well why aren’t you on methadone.  I explained that I was no longer using everyday, and had in fact stopped using everything in the last few weeks.

Further, she said she would not treat the hepC if I was still using/drinking, and asked if I would submit to a urine to prove I was clean.  I think I may need a new doctor.

I too have seen very judgmental pricks in the medical profession in my trips for treatment of HIV.  I have met afew really compassionate nonjudgmental ones as well.
They were the minority in my experience, however.

Don’t get me started on 12 step drug/alcohol councilors:)

sean

Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – Send 10MB messages!

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Okay so DON’T forgive yourself. It’s all the same to me.
Date: July 7, 2004 at 11:19:19 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I think he was pondering why he started posting 😉 4
or 5 messages in 2 days. This means that will be last
thing Patrick writes to the list for the next 5 months
😉

I don’t think it’s personal, years ago he would talk a
lot more even in email or answer the phone or they
would connect you to his office at Mash’s. Then all
the phone numbers changed, nobody answers anything and
patrick stopped talking. I think he got very busy.

I don’t take it personally but I do get jealous
because I know there is always some clique of you on
here who talk to each other all the time and don’t
respond to anyone else 🙁

OTOH sometimes I stop reading for a month and don’t
say anything for 2 either 😉 Still I do think you
could reply to your email once in a while and not take
6 months to do it or write more then two sentences 😉

Carla B

— CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 7/7/2004 5:49:11 PM Central
Daylight Time,
digital@phantom.com writes:

Hummm…  Why am I posting to the list today.  Lemme
go  chainsmoke 10
cigarettes and ponder this.

Don’t ponder so much that you quit posting. You are
very  entertaining at
times.
Callie

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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW
Date: July 7, 2004 at 10:50:33 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Jim,

When I tested positive for hepC, the cat was out of the bag with my new infectious disease doctor.   She asked if I did IV drugs…I said I have..and then she said, “Well why aren’t you on methadone.  I explained that I was no longer using everyday, and had in fact stopped using everything in the last few weeks.

Further, she said she would not treat the hepC if I was still using/drinking, and asked if I would submit to a urine to prove I was clean.  I think I may need a new doctor.

I too have seen very judgmental pricks in the medical profession in my trips for treatment of HIV.  I have met afew really compassionate nonjudgmental ones as well.
They were the minority in my experience, however.

Don’t get me started on 12 step drug/alcohol councilors:)

sean

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Deborah and patrick show again again
Date: July 7, 2004 at 10:50:15 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/7/2004 4:23:47 PM Central Daylight Time, digital@phantom.com writes:
I wonder what I said.

hahahahaahahahahaahahahahahahahahaahhahaha!!!!!!!!

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: Fw: [ibogaine]Breast or not?
Date: July 7, 2004 at 10:44:55 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/7/2004 10:16:05 AM Central Daylight Time, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:
I can’t really say, not knowing for sure who else I know who uses/used
had a similar lack of breasts in their childhood.
>

Really would be interesting but I don’t think it has a thing to do with predisposition to be addicted. My Mom tried to breastfeed me but I had supposed allergy to her milk so quit the breast after 2 weeks. I did not even try to breastfeed Patrick, my oldest son, and he is a tee-totaler. I breastfed my next son, Lain, he is very prone to addiction but is not using at present. He drank and used excessively from the very start!
That may be more information than anyone wants to hear! lol! I just thought we could do our own little ‘study’!
Callie

From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW
Date: July 7, 2004 at 10:39:19 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Sean,

Yea, I know what ya mean.  I don’t know if you saw it but they have a commercial about smokers who are all messed up, cancer, empasema, talking about how we lived life to the fullest.

I am also glad that people voiced their opinion and let others have theirs, no name calling and the respect was there.  I like that too.  There are a lot of smart people on this forum sort of a internet disscussion group where people of all problems can air them out.  And no one gets down on them because they understand.  As I mentioned before if the docs and nurses knew how bad withdrawel was and maybe had a sister or brother who has a drug problem, then they might be more understanding.  But I literally have seen the hate a doc had because I was taking Tylenol #  4, with Valium, and Doridan (sleeping pill no longer made).  The thing is his brother, a doc and his partner in the same office, was giving them to me.  Other docs were sarcastic as hell when you ask for Lortab or codeine specially with a Valium.  One would give be me blood pressure pills to keep me alive or avoid strokes and such but would not give me pain pills so I could enjoy a quality life, even though the federal govenment said I was disabled.  Yea, the government throws money away but not on the people but on big businesses

Best to ya SEAN

– JIM

UUSEAN@aol.com wrote:

Hi Jim,

I have enjoyed this disease theory debate for what that’s worth.   One thing that is really cool is that debate on this list remains respectful.  Without the name calling and nonsense which is so common on Internet lists.

I spent the day reading, “Can’t Find My Home: America in the Great Stoned Age 1945-2000.  It’s a really fascinating account.  A line from Grace slick about the sixties really hit me. “Look [said Slick) some people stayed in Scotland and raised their hers, others got on the ship and went with Magellan, and those who went on the trip lived with a lot more danger but saw more of the world. It’s the same with any culture. If they chose to live on the edge, more will die youngerthan if they don’t; more will be damaged than if they don’t.”

As a man who wanted to live on the edge I have paid a hefty price. I am still here, however, unlike many of my dearest friends.  But you know as I write this all I can think is how mundane and plain drudgery “the edge” was in the end.  The thrills were gone, the excitement dead.  Using became a job; and not one with benefits anymore:)

Peace,
sean

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Okay so DON’T forgive yourself. It’s all the same to me.
Date: July 7, 2004 at 10:34:46 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/7/2004 5:49:11 PM Central Daylight Time, digital@phantom.com writes:
Hummm…  Why am I posting to the list today.  Lemme go chainsmoke 10
cigarettes and ponder this.

Don’t ponder so much that you quit posting. You are very entertaining at times.
Callie

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Okay so DON’T forgive yourself. It’s all the same to me.
Date: July 7, 2004 at 10:17:46 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hummm…  Why am I posting to the list today.  Lemme go chainsmoke 10
cigarettes and ponder this.<

No pondering necessary Patrick-
It’s your DISEASE that made you do it of course!
Peace and love and friendly happy vibes.
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 6:46 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Okay so DON’T forgive yourself. It’s all the same to me.

On Jul 7, 2004, at 6:27 PM, Carla Barnes wrote:

I dont know what most of this conversation is about
but have either one of you ever left big cities and
been to smaller towns in mid america? Seeing 300 pound
people is not rare at all.

I’d call that self destructive 😉

I’d call it drug seeking behavior 😉

I’d call it a addiction 🙂

I’m not joking about mid america either. If you watch
the news and all those stories about obesity being
epidemic now. I dont pay attention to it too much
because I dont see it around me but you leave the
bigger cities and being very very very fat is becoming
‘normal’

I don’t mind tracks, beached whales are not my thing!
😉 I do not mean chubby or overweight I mean people
who could easily lose more then twice their weight and
stillllll be fat! They’re everywhere in middle
america!

Carla … thanks for that sensitive discourse on being a fat pig;
whoopsie, I meant to say: morbidly obese.  Uhm, pardon me, just
clearing my throat and all that came out.

Here, have sum televizshuN.  It’s the opiate of the masses…  I can’t
actually make the magical glowing box fit inside the list just yet, but
shockwave-flash is close enough:

(… tnX Margo! =) …)

http://www.illwillpress.com/banter.html

For whut it’s worth, I love the DSM-IV.  Psychopath?  Noap, gone now;
we switched it over into sociopath, and then rearranged, massaged, and
swept it all under the carpet in the catch-all: antisocial personality
disorder.

Plus, also, you may not realize this, but if you act like an asshole
sometimes.  You’re really *NOT* … you are, in fact, SUFFERING from
Disruptive Personality Disorder.

It’s a medical condition (please note the careful selection of the word
“condition.”  Pleasantly neutral; neither disease or disorder!), so,
like, fuck off mahn.

Hummm…  Why am I posting to the list today.  Lemme go chainsmoke 10
cigarettes and ponder this.

Patrick

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From: Veronica Nuemann <veranuemann@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW
Date: July 7, 2004 at 10:13:16 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I agree with this very much! Thanks to all of you
here. This is the only drug forum I’ve ever been on
that doesn’t depress me to tears or have anyone
preaching!!. It goes from insane to funny to feeling
like a very large sick family. What I’ve always found
fascinating is that as much as you might argue
everyone will reach a point where they stop and show
respect to each other.

I’ve never seen that before. Thanks to everyone here!
veronica

— Sapphirestardus@aol.com wrote:
By my standard and experience, she was not a ‘fiend’
I love the energy and animation of this site and
people on it. It is so
fucking cool.

牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋

牋牋牋

牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋

牋牋牋See you later,

牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋

牋牋牋牋牋牋Julian

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] DNA
Date: July 7, 2004 at 10:05:05 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Nowwarat,

Yea, I heard it but find it hard to believe.

That’s strange,  think about it.  If I was the doc I would tell Dick, Hey, who in the hell do these guys think they are busting me, the VPs Doc.  Your next doc might not be as good as me.  Call the Secret Service and tell them to drive me home.  And then fire them ass holes who investigated me and arrested me.  Not only did I get busted and embarrassed so did you and the president.  Who in the hell do they think they are busting me.  I work for you, don’t I have immunity?  Next their gonna want to investigate Haliburton and Dick.  You bettter nip this shit in the bud.  Imagine, people workinging in the white house getting busted.

In answer to your second questiong:

>>
Will future people be able to enjoy Opiate Euphoria daily without dependence and withdrawal through DNA Engineering of the brain?  <<

Hell no, they will give you a vaccination where you will not get high and therefore not have to worry about withdrawal.

Best to ya

Nowwarat@aol.com wrote:
Will future people be able to enjoy Opiate Euphoria daily without dependence and withdrawal through DNA Engineering of the brain?

Dick Cheneys M.D. busted for getting hooked on Stadol if anyone ddidn’t hear it.

Nowwarat

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From: Slip Stream <slipstream@hipplanet.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] new MAPS with more ibogaine
Date: July 7, 2004 at 9:34:01 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Got the new MAPS today. Good story about the Mexican and Canadian ibogaine clinics and another about the ibogaine movie from Ben Deloenan. He’s also @mindvox.

No Deborah and Patrick show, only people I recognize in the photos are Patrick, Howard and Stan Glick. Also mentions the Mexican and Canadian clinics.

KLM ever? Kroupa Lotsof Mash? 😉

She won’t appear unless its only about her will she? Or with Patrick who makes her look like a saint. No disrespect only observation.

Patrick, would she appear if we changed the alphabet so it was Mash, Lotsof, Kroupa? 🙂

-SS

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW
Date: July 7, 2004 at 9:22:56 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Julian,

I mentioned once on the forum that I know several people who quit drinking and using and they did it on their own.  No therapist, no meetings, it got to the point where it was no fun anymore.  Like just being sick and tired of being sick and tired.

It is a rough life, dodgeing the cops, rip offs, having tracks on the arms, not having money.  It’s not that much fun.  I am sure since you been at it awhile you know people who died one way or another from their problem, got shot, car accident, OD, AIDS, HEP C.  And one of the worst – nothings happening, come back in an hour.

I have a young daughter and I will let her watch COPS on TV and say to her see, see what drugs will do to ya.  Or see, he’s going to jail for driving while drunk.  I try so hard to see that she grows up right.  Now, I really would not mind her taking Peyote with the Indians or like that.  But I would not want her going to a rave and taking XTC or having someone slip her the date rape drug.  I know on one person who their mom bought her her frist pack of cigarettes.  Now, if she was to be in an accident and have pins and rods in her, she really does not have much choice.  When you get like that you need narcotics to kill the pain.  And as you say maybe for life.  That’s a medical treatment.
Now, when she is a teen I will tell her not to use drugs, cigarettes, alcohol, etc.  But I will tell her if you dying to try it do it at home, in the basement, not in someones’ car.  And not in some strange persons home.  Of course it’s no fun doing it at home.

But I won’t have that problem for awhile.  I told her when she was  4 or 5 if you want to play with matches come and tell me.  I’ll let you strike them, no prolem.   You might get burned but I will be there to see your not burned too bad.  But if you play with matches when I am not home you get a spanking.   She never took me up on it.

But it really is not much much fun smoking in the basement.  I was a teenager in the 60’s and we would go to concerts.  I have seen Elton John when he was starting out Three Dog Night, Steppenwolf, Alice Cooper and many, many more.  But I was a guy, she is a girl.  That makes a difference in a way, but you can still get killed or hurt in an accident.

I guess I will have to do the best I can.  If your a parent you know.

Best to ya

– JIM

Sapphirestardus@aol.com wrote:
Hey Jim! How are you? I think it’s good to find a subject that causes much writing. It tells you alot about what people consider important! To me, semantics, wording is important for discussion purposes and/or research and study. In terms of the reality of living and dealing with addiction and abuse, the cliche “a rose by any other name…” settles the issue for me. You know one thing I’d like to say about this is like everything else, addiction, abuse and use is pretty individualistic. I am certain there are commanalities among us, but in some, the self-destruction of abuse/addiction may be a disease as depression is. In others, it may be just a wish to ‘escape’ pain, emotions or anything you are not comfortable with. Still in others, it might be simply a good thing that got out of hand. My ex-wife is in that category. She got fucked up on crack for about a 6 month period. Though to alot of people, she looked like an addict, she really wasn’t. She stopped one day and never went back, nor did other drugs, didn’t need therapy etc.. By my standard and experience, she was not a ‘fiend’
I love the energy and animation of this site and people on it. It is so fucking cool.

See you later,
Julian

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From: <gboy@hush.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Deborah and patrick show again again
Date: July 7, 2004 at 9:12:54 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—–
Hash: SHA1

Telemundo is a broadcasting network in spanish and italian its not a
show.

I’m not touching most of this. If you want to dig im sure there are 500
msgs in the list
archive
The deborah and patrick show is when there is a ibogaine segment on tv
and only Mash and
Kroupa are in it. They have a lot of energy on screen 😉 😉 Im going
to be nice and skip past
the rest but the last one they did got linked from the front page of
the Drudge Report with a
conservative republican putting ‘hallucinogen that cures addiction’ on
the front page of his
site.

They took the video offline once drudge linked it because it got hit
too much but this was the
story
http://www.kron.com/Global/story.asp?s=%20%201652207

Patric my question was legit dog, I was not being obnoxious or funny.
I already know what
the whole Mash show is but then when they got you away from her solo,
your in front of a
pscyhedelic painting and followed by a shaman.

Mash with ibogaine is dangerous unless I sell it to you, to you in front
of melting painting to
shamanism! First ibo show that I am interested in what everyone is saying
and your all
dubbed and I dont understand a word! It wasnt stock bwiti footage.
Find out find out find out find out!

.g

On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 17:33:16 -0700 Sapphirestardus@aol.com wrote:
I hate to sound so naive and ignorant, but what is this about? What
is
Telemundo Show?

牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋

Thanks,

牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋

牋牋牋Juli
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From: raven@darkwingbird.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Re-shrubbed
Date: July 7, 2004 at 8:46:48 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Doh! I need to proof-read once in a while.
http://www.darkwingbird.com/bombs-away4.wmv

Now…enjoy.

The desert is better in some ways and worse in others. Stunning beauty and
no humidity like Virginia…but I sorely miss working with dope fiends
every day (believe it or not). All-in-all, I guess time will tell, but the
politics were getting too thick for a “loose cannon” like me to survive
much longer.

________________________________________________________

Rick! Hi!!

Wow interesting trip, when you started posting here
you were a supervisor at a methadone clininc! 🙂 Now
you’re sitting in the desert 🙂 Is it better?

I think most people crazier thn patrick are inside
mental hospitals instead of running one called mindvox
😉

I want to enjoy your creative offering but you didn’t
post the url!

Love your domain 🙂

Carla B

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From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Harm
Date: July 7, 2004 at 8:41:07 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello Jim. (again) That was me with the amputation and bike accident. You are so right about acceptance. It’s been close to forty years for me as well and for 25 of those years, I’ve been trying to get off drugs using all the methods possible. It never worked for me but methadone did do the job better than anything else. Though I occasionally think of getting off the meth, in the end I just realize that maybe getting off the meth is not the answer. Maybe accepting it as I do with my antidepressant and diabetes meds is the healthiest answer. Take my meds and live as well as possible. ACCEPTANCE man.
Thank you Jim,
Julian

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Deborah and patrick show again again
Date: July 7, 2004 at 8:33:16 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I hate to sound so naive and ignorant, but what is this about? What is Telemundo Show?
Thanks,
Julian

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW
Date: July 7, 2004 at 8:32:02 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Jim! How are you? I think it’s good to find a subject that causes much writing. It tells you alot about what people consider important! To me, semantics, wording is important for discussion purposes and/or research and study. In terms of the reality of living and dealing with addiction and abuse, the cliche “a rose by any other name…” settles the issue for me. You know one thing I’d like to say about this is like everything else, addiction, abuse and use is pretty individualistic. I am certain there are commanalities among us, but in some, the self-destruction of abuse/addiction may be a disease as depression is. In others, it may be just a wish to ‘escape’ pain, emotions or anything you are not comfortable with. Still in others, it might be simply a good thing that got out of hand. My ex-wife is in that category. She got fucked up on crack for about a 6 month period. Though to alot of people, she looked like an addict, she really wasn’t. She stopped one day and never went back, nor did other drugs, didn’t need therapy etc.. By my standard and experience, she was not a ‘fiend’
I love the energy and animation of this site and people on it. It is so fucking cool.

See you later,
Julian

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Love the shrub
Date: July 7, 2004 at 8:19:15 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Rick! Hi!!

Wow interesting trip, when you started posting here
you were a supervisor at a methadone clininc! 🙂 Now
you’re sitting in the desert 🙂 Is it better?

I think most people crazier thn patrick are inside
mental hospitals instead of running one called mindvox
😉

I want to enjoy your creative offering but you didn’t
post the url!

Love your domain 🙂

Carla B

— raven@darkwingbird.com wrote:
Yup…still kickin’ in the desert of Arizona.
Clean, crazy, and getting crazier…but nowhere near
as crazy as Patrick.

Enjoy my creative offering:
http://www.bombs-away4.wmv

RickV…former methadone pimp

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – 50x more storage than other providers!
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From: Nowwarat@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] DNA
Date: July 7, 2004 at 7:32:56 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Will future people be able to enjoy Opiate Euphoria daily without dependence and withdrawal through DNA Engineering of the brain?

Dick Cheneys M.D. busted for getting hooked on Stadol if anyone ddidn’t hear it.

Nowwarat

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW
Date: July 7, 2004 at 7:31:22 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Jim,

I have enjoyed this disease theory debate for what that’s worth.   One thing that is really cool is that debate on this list remains respectful.  Without the name calling and nonsense which is so common on Internet lists.

I spent the day reading, “Can’t Find My Home: America in the Great Stoned Age 1945-2000.  It’s a really fascinating account.  A line from Grace slick about the sixties really hit me. “Look [said Slick) some people stayed in Scotland and raised their hers, others got on the ship and went with Magellan, and those who went on the trip lived with a lot more danger but saw more of the world. It’s the same with any culture. If they chose to live on the edge, more will die youngerthan if they don’t; more will be damaged than if they don’t.”

As a man who wanted to live on the edge I have paid a hefty price. I am still here, however, unlike many of my dearest friends.  But you know as I write this all I can think is how mundane and plain drudgery “the edge” was in the end.  The thrills were gone, the excitement dead.  Using became a job; and not one with benefits anymore:)

Peace,
sean

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?
Date: July 7, 2004 at 7:24:51 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Man, how are you? I don’t mean to pry, well I guess I do since I’m asking you these questions but Where did you go when you did Iboga/Ibogaine? Could you tell me about your experience and what you went through? I intend to experience Iboga/Ibogaine when I get a settlement on my accident case (approx. 3-6 months) but I don’t know what the best place is without spending 10,000 -15,000 dollars. Needless to say I am psyched to do it and this site has only served to reinforce my desire to experience it.  Thanks Luke.
Julian

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Okay so DON’T forgive yourself. It’s all the same to me.
Date: July 7, 2004 at 7:17:54 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Patrick,

I cannot agree with one thing in your last post.  I suffer from oppositional defiance disorder, maybe that’s why.

Sean

From: raven@darkwingbird.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Love the shrub
Date: July 7, 2004 at 7:16:52 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yup…still kickin’ in the desert of Arizona.
Clean, crazy, and getting crazier…but nowhere near as crazy as Patrick.

Enjoy my creative offering:
http://www.bombs-away4.wmv

RickV…former methadone pimp

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From: “jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW
Date: July 7, 2004 at 6:57:14 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

There is a significant difference between having a substance-related disorder
and being schizophrenic.  But, that is not the point I was making.  What I
was indicating is that the authoritative source of psychiatric diagnosis, the
DSM, less than twenty years ago categorized both substance-use and homosexuality
as a disorder.  It still categorizes substance use as a disorder but, not
homosexuality.

The symptoms of schizophrenia and drug addiction are quite different,
true. However, the course of the illness is similar. The etiology is
similar, a genetic disposition combined with environmental stressors; and
the manifestation of the symptoms is similar, in both disorders the
symptoms develop at a moderate rate, reach a peak, subside and nearly
disappear, then repeat.

I agree with you that the DSM is not an authoratative source, and should
not be treated as such. Surely, the DSM-V will ommit things from IV that
have been disproven, and will likely add things that have been newly
discovered. Which is the point of having multiple versions of a text,
to make improvements as you go along.

But the fact that some of the things in the DSM are incorrect does not
mean that ALL the things in the DSM are incorrect. Chemical dependency was
added to the DSM because the evidence becoming available indicated that it
should be included. The current evidence portrays chemical dependency as
having the characteristics of a mental disorder, which I spoke about
early.

It is also very important to acknowledge the difference between being a
drug user and a drug addict. It would certainly be wrong to label anyone
who uses drugs as having an illness or disorder. But there is a world of
difference between a casual drug user, and an addict.

No argument on my part but, take it up with the Office of National Drug
Control Policy (ONDCP).

the ONDCP does not consider addiction to be medical problem, they consider
it to be a criminal problem.

i hope that changes one day.

While commonly used, addiction is not an accepted medical or scientific
definition. There are those who would argue that substance-related disorders do not
have a predictable course of development.

The word addiction isn’t typically used when speaking clinically. The word
dependecy is used, which does have a generally accepted definition, as
defined by the DSM and the ICD. I grant you that there are some
significant things wrong with this agreeed upon definition; the most
egregious error being that they consider trouble with the law a sign of
dependence. But the fact that they don’t have the  definition quite right
does not mean that there is not a correct definition of the disorder.

And while there is some literature that argues against the predictability
of substance abuse disorder, the majority supports it. You’ll
find some literature arguing that the world is flat as well. The
prognosis of a drug addict is usually fairly easy to predict with some
information on the exact nature of his/her condition.

Jon, I guess I just have more faith in recombinant DNA technology than you.
I am not saying it is going to happen tomorrow or that it will but, that it is
not out of the realm of possibilities.  We could be adapted in part to use
photosynthesis for a start.  In a world where the majority of persons had no
need to eat those who did might very well be considered as maladaptive and a
drain on resources.  From there is would be quite easy to view those who required
to eat as having a medical disorder and why not a mental illness?  All it
takes is defining them as such.

Well,  let’s say one day food does become unnecessary. And let’s say the
governments bans  food, like they currently ban some drugs.

We can imagine that a significant portion of the population would sneak a
candy bar every now and then regardless. We could imagine a somewhat
smaller subset of the population would probably have a couple candy bars a
week.

A smaller subset still would not be able to stop eating candy bars, they’d
eat them all the time. If they ran out of money to buy candy bars, they
would do whatever they could to get them. They would sell their dead
grandmothers antique silver to get candy bars. They would lie to their
family and friends, they would prostitute themselves, they would mug
people, they would do whatever they needed to do to keep a steady supply
of candy bars.

These are the people who I am saying are mentally ill. Not the others.

But eating is necessary.  While some can go further, try going 24 or 48 or 72
hours without eating.  When looking at behavior I don’t see any difference
between jamming a big mac into your mouth or swallowing a dose of opiates.
Possibly, some pathology can be teased out for sticking a needle into your arm
but, even that can be rationalized by economics.  Our philosophies define what we
view illness.  Just food for thought. Nothing set in stone.

If someone couldn’t stop eating Big Macs, despite say being grossly
overweight and having had three heart attacks, that would meet the
criteria for mental illness as well.

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From: Patrick K. Kroupa <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Okay so DON’T forgive yourself. It’s all the same to me.
Date: July 7, 2004 at 6:46:08 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Jul 7, 2004, at 6:27 PM, Carla Barnes wrote:

I dont know what most of this conversation is about
but have either one of you ever left big cities and
been to smaller towns in mid america? Seeing 300 pound
people is not rare at all.

I’d call that self destructive 😉

I’d call it drug seeking behavior 😉

I’d call it a addiction 🙂

I’m not joking about mid america either. If you watch
the news and all those stories about obesity being
epidemic now. I dont pay attention to it too much
because I dont see it around me but you leave the
bigger cities and being very very very fat is becoming
‘normal’

I don’t mind tracks, beached whales are not my thing!
😉 I do not mean chubby or overweight I mean people
who could easily lose more then twice their weight and
stillllll be fat! They’re everywhere in middle
america!

Carla … thanks for that sensitive discourse on being a fat pig; whoopsie, I meant to say: morbidly obese.  Uhm, pardon me, just clearing my throat and all that came out.

Here, have sum televizshuN.  It’s the opiate of the masses…  I can’t actually make the magical glowing box fit inside the list just yet, but shockwave-flash is close enough:

(… tnX Margo! =) …)

http://www.illwillpress.com/banter.html

For whut it’s worth, I love the DSM-IV.  Psychopath?  Noap, gone now; we switched it over into sociopath, and then rearranged, massaged, and swept it all under the carpet in the catch-all: antisocial personality disorder.

Plus, also, you may not realize this, but if you act like an asshole sometimes.  You’re really *NOT* … you are, in fact, SUFFERING from Disruptive Personality Disorder.

It’s a medical condition (please note the careful selection of the word “condition.”  Pleasantly neutral; neither disease or disorder!), so, like, fuck off mahn.

Hummm…  Why am I posting to the list today.  Lemme go chainsmoke 10 cigarettes and ponder this.

Patrick

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From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW
Date: July 7, 2004 at 6:27:48 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I dont know what most of this conversation is about
but have either one of you ever left big cities and
been to smaller towns in mid america? Seeing 300 pound
people is not rare at all.

I’d call that self destructive 😉

I’d call it drug seeking behavior 😉

I’d call it a addiction 🙂

I’m not joking about mid america either. If you watch
the news and all those stories about obesity being
epidemic now. I dont pay attention to it too much
because I dont see it around me but you leave the
bigger cities and being very very very fat is becoming
‘normal’

I don’t mind tracks, beached whales are not my thing!
😉 I do not mean chubby or overweight I mean people
who could easily lose more then twice their weight and
stillllll be fat! They’re everywhere in middle
america!

Carla B

— HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 7/7/04 12:19:42 PM,
jfreed1@umbc.edu writes:

Howard, I don’t mean to sound disrespectful, but
this is a straw man
argument. Not only is it rather unlikely to ever
happen, but it’s a poor
analogy for drug use. Eating is not maladaptive or
self-destructive, drug
addiction is. And I’m not talking about binge
eating or anything, because
I think that too is evidently a mental illness.

Jon, I guess I just have more faith in recombinant
DNA technology than you.
I am not saying it is going to happen tomorrow or
that it will but, that it is
not out of the realm of possibilities.  We could be
adapted in part to use
photosynthesis for a start.  In a world where the
majority of persons had no
need to eat those who did might very well be
considered as maladaptive and a
drain on resources.  From there is would be quite
easy to view those who required
to eat as having a medical disorder and why not a
mental illness?  All it
takes is defining them as such.

But eating when it isn’t strictly necessary is a
far cry from being unable
to go more than 5 hours without jamming a spike of
metal into your arm.
They are two completely dissimilar behaviours. Now,
the individual who
MUST eat, who can’t control their impulses to eat
despite excessive weight
gain, heart problems, etc., that person should
rightly be considered to
have a mental illness. THAT would be analagous to
drug addiction, because
they are the same behaviours, and the same
cognitions, just a different
substance of addiction.

But eating is necessary.  While some can go further,
try going 24 or 48 or 72
hours without eating.  When looking at behavior I
don’t see any difference
between jamming a big mac into your mouth or
swallowing a dose of opiates.
Possibly, some pathology can be teased out for
sticking a needle into your arm
but, even that can be rationalized by economics.
Our philosophies define what we
view illness.  Just food for thought. Nothing set in
stone.

Howard

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – 100MB free storage!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

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From: “jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Non-opiate narcotic
Date: July 7, 2004 at 6:12:16 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

Actually, for whut it’s worth, “Narcotics,” have become a legal
designation.  Narcotic Analgesics are the sedatives.  Whatcha said is
the EXACT OPPOSITE.  Opioids are synthetic, opiates are
derivatives/natural products chemistry.

They are — often — used interchangeably; but doing this is
technically inaccurate, frowned upon, and will get your monograph shot
down if you plan to use it in a self-referential manner, as a platform
to mint some grant.  Or … if the peer review is feeling cranky that
day, it’ll get it scored lower.

In other words: doan’ be doin’ dat mahn.

Just sayin’

Patrick

Well, with all this discussion, i had to go look it up.

As it turns out, neither of us were quite right =)

“The term ‘opioids’ includes all known agents with morphinelike and
morphine-blocking activity as well as naturally occuring and synthetic
opioid peptides. ‘Opiates’ constitute that subclass of opioids that are
alkaloids extracted from opium, including morphine and codeine, and a wide
variety of semisynthetic derivative compounds from them and from thebaine,
another component of opium”.

Stine, S M, Kosten, T R. 1999. “Opioids”, _Addictions: A Comprehensive
Guidbook_, McCrady & Epstein ed., Oxford University Press, NY.

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Non-opiate narcotic
Date: July 7, 2004 at 6:07:45 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/7/04 3:34:54 PM, jfreed1@umbc.edu writes:

In the medical literature, the words “opiate” and “opioid” are generally
used interchangebly. There is a tendency to use “opiate” to describe
synthetic drugs, while “opioid” is more often used to describe natural
substances, either from the poppy or the human body.

My understanding concerning the issue of natural and synthetic forms is that
the opposite is true.  In a review of recent discussions by the FDA the use of
“opioids” to describe this category of drugs is what is used.  The only place
the term opiate is found in current FDA literature is in title of legislative
acts.  When the FDA speaks science they use the terms opioids.

If we get into common usage and/or the media well then anything goes.

Howard

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW
Date: July 7, 2004 at 6:00:22 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/7/04 12:19:42 PM, jfreed1@umbc.edu writes:

Jon,

I think it important to remember that less than twenty years ago the
Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) categorized
being gay as a mental disorder.

But there is a very significant difference between being homosexual and
being a drug addict. Being attracted to people of the same sex is not a
self-destructive behaviour; being unable to stop using drugs even when
they are destroying your life certainly is.

There is a significant difference between having a substance-related disorder
and being schizophrenic.  But, that is not the point I was making.  What I
was indicating is that the authoritative source of psychiatric diagnosis, the
DSM, less than twenty years ago categorized both substance-use and homosexuality
as a disorder.  It still categorizes substance use as a disorder but, not
homosexuality.

It is also very important to acknowledge the difference between being a
drug user and a drug addict. It would certainly be wrong to label anyone
who uses drugs as having an illness or disorder. But there is a world of
difference between a casual drug user, and an addict.

No argument on my part but, take it up with the Office of National Drug
Control Policy (ONDCP).

It seems to me that addiction, not drug use, cleary meets the criteria
for mental illness. Mental illness being defined as a set of thoughts,
emotions, and behaviours that significantly impair social, occupational,
and/or personal functioning, and have a predictable course of development.

While commonly used, addiction is not an accepted medical or scientific
definition. There are those who would argue that substance-related disorders do not
have a predictable course of development.

I feel certain that if we were by recombinant DNA technology able to
eliminate the need for food that those of us who could not avail
themselves to the new technology and required food would be categorized
and >>treated as drug users are today.  It is also useful to remember that food
withdrawal >>always results in death.

Howard, I don’t mean to sound disrespectful, but this is a straw man
argument. Not only is it rather unlikely to ever happen, but it’s a poor
analogy for drug use. Eating is not maladaptive or self-destructive, drug
addiction is. And I’m not talking about binge eating or anything, because
I think that too is evidently a mental illness.

Jon, I guess I just have more faith in recombinant DNA technology than you.
I am not saying it is going to happen tomorrow or that it will but, that it is
not out of the realm of possibilities.  We could be adapted in part to use
photosynthesis for a start.  In a world where the majority of persons had no
need to eat those who did might very well be considered as maladaptive and a
drain on resources.  From there is would be quite easy to view those who required
to eat as having a medical disorder and why not a mental illness?  All it
takes is defining them as such.

But eating when it isn’t strictly necessary is a far cry from being unable
to go more than 5 hours without jamming a spike of metal into your arm.
They are two completely dissimilar behaviours. Now, the individual who
MUST eat, who can’t control their impulses to eat despite excessive weight
gain, heart problems, etc., that person should rightly be considered to
have a mental illness. THAT would be analagous to drug addiction, because
they are the same behaviours, and the same cognitions, just a different
substance of addiction.

But eating is necessary.  While some can go further, try going 24 or 48 or 72
hours without eating.  When looking at behavior I don’t see any difference
between jamming a big mac into your mouth or swallowing a dose of opiates.
Possibly, some pathology can be teased out for sticking a needle into your arm
but, even that can be rationalized by economics.  Our philosophies define what we
view illness.  Just food for thought. Nothing set in stone.

Howard

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Harm
Date: July 7, 2004 at 5:58:48 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Julian,

Yea, I saw that same thing on 60 minutes.  Makes a lot of sense, too bad the U.S. does not do the same thing.  I forget who I was talking with, it may of been you.  The person got part of their foot cut off.  Then got in a VERY bad motrocycle accident and is taking a large amount of methadone.  Sometimes you have to learn to live with your “problem”.  I have known people who have been through therapy and detox many times only to return to using.  Talking to a therapist doesn’t seem to work for me nor does N.A.  I guess you could say being an addict sucks.  How does one quit?  I don’t know, I have been trying to find the answer for years.  I do know that whenever I get clean, I try and stay away from people who are using.

I have been in detox once and I when I was there there were only about two addicts and the rest alcoholics.  One guy asked the therapist if he could go to the bar with his buddies and just drink Coke.  For some reason the therapist looked at me and said what do you think, Jim.  I said it would probably not work.  First there is the temptation, second if you were to sit around with your old buddies who were getting drunk you would not like it.  You have heard the saying the only person who likes a drunk is another drunk.  The patient thought for a minute and said: “Yea, your probably right”  See, he did not want to give up his only friends.

Other than that, I would want to get clean and take Naltrexon.  Of course that is what I would like to do, it may not work for others.  I say make it legal like in England, which will NEVER happen.  Or at least try the Igogaine.  I have been at it off and on for 40 or so years and can’t find an answer.  If it was easy to quit drinking, smoking or using drugs there would be far fewer detox and methadone centers.  As I also mentioned I am on disability because of my back.  So as much as I want to get clean, I don’t want to be in severe pain and limping around, specially on a rainy day.  Yep, tough problem indeed.

Best to ya,

– JIM

Sapphirestardus@aol.com wrote:
Good Morning! There is no documented organic damage from the use of opiates. You are 100% correct in stating that the damage noted in people who use is from the lifestyle of copping. Englans did an experiment that the show 60 minutes aired examining this. Certain people were given heroin and cocaine. Now as far as I know, cocaine does cause organic damage but in this study, it did not.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
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From: Patrick K. Kroupa <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Deborah and patrick show again again
Date: July 7, 2004 at 5:21:40 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Jul 7, 2004, at 4:47 PM, <gboy@hush.com> wrote:

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—–
Hash: SHA1

Could somebody in any part of the world besides where we are at which
is the united states
in case it wasn’t clear tell me what the Telemundo show said?

Was that a science or psychedelic drugs or addiction show last night?

Dude,

I have absolutely no fuckin’ idea.  Until they send me the tape.  All I know as of right now, is, I’m getting a bunch of insane calls on the answering service asking for me.

I wonder what I said.

Patrick

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW
Date: July 7, 2004 at 5:18:25 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Jilian,

Sometimes it is hard to tell my a name.  Sorry about that, glad there are no hard feelings, just a simple mistake on my part.  As far as a date ummm, maybe we can just be friends – LOL.

I really did not mean to cause such a fire storm with so many people writing in agreeing or disagreeing and referring to United Nations classifications or doctors or psychologist books or classification.  You can call it a disease, a disorder, a syndrom (like gulf war syndrom or CFS), or a mental problem, spiritual problem or keep it simple and call is a VERY SERIOUS PROBLEM which is debated amoug the smartest people who can not all agree.  Call it whatever you want it is a serious problem.  For all practial purposes there is not a decent cure for the problem, like taking an antibiotic drug or taking out maybe a kidney or cancer.  Also there is also a VERY high relapse rate.  Reguardless of what you call it a disease or syndrome or problem – whatever, I could see that Callie was hurting, carrying around guilt and feeling bad.  I could tell because I do it too.

I suggested to her that she tell her children the truth and explaine it to them and they might be more understanding that what she may realize.  And the fact that they wanted to see her speaks for itself.  Like I mentioned I am also one who carries guilt and keeps putting quarters in the ass-kicking machine.  I beat myself up more than anyone else.

Anyway, she seemed happy after reading the letter and looked at it from a different point of view.  That’s all I wanted to do.  I really did not want to bring in religion either but it was the only way I knew how to explaine it.  I would say everyone on this froum has done something they wish they had not done or could of done over.  But we can’t turn back the hands of time. I am not a psychic but I have a feeling that after they have a sit down and talk things over, they will have more respect and love for each other.  Sometimes kids (I know their grown) want to know why.  So you explain why and they understand.  For example you have heard it said that kids sometimes think they are the cause of their parents divorce and feel bad about it.  But after a nice sit down with reasons given for certain things, everyone comes out feeling better.  I hope that will be the case.

After all, how many people on the forum did Callie help or try to help?  What goes around comes around.

Talk to ya later good Buddy,

– JIM

Sapphirestardus@aol.com wrote:
Callie, Jim is right about forgiveness. You have forgiven me which I am extremely grateful for. When I read the letters, I sort of laugh, I mean they are so stupid, so out of it, so “not me” that it is funny but I did feel terribly guilty. The fact that you spoke with me after the fact was a big load off my back. The fact that you forgave me was icing on the cake. I believe the same thing about your sons. If they are visiting you, then they want you in their life and probably do understand your situation. If you desire, one day you can talk with them about it. You are a great person Callie, do not minimize that! Jim thank you for your words, but I do have to correct you on one thing. I’m a guy, not a girl. It’s not a big deal on this site but if you ever asked me out on a date, it would be a huge deal, right?

Have a great day,
Julian

Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – 100MB free storage!

From: Patrick K. Kroupa <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Non-opiate narcotic
Date: July 7, 2004 at 5:15:07 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Jul 7, 2004, at 4:34 PM, jon wrote:

Thanks Callie,

As I indicated in my earlier response technically only alkaloids/drugs
derived from the poppy are opiates.  Methadone is an opioid but, the basic
outcome
of effects is the same as for opiates: dependence, tolerance and
withdrawal.

Howard,

In the medical literature, the words “opiate” and “opioid” are generally
used interchangebly. There is a tendency to use “opiate” to describe
synthetic drugs, while “opioid” is more often used to describe natural
substances, either from the poppy or the human body.

Actually, for whut it’s worth, “Narcotics,” have become a legal designation.  Narcotic Analgesics are the sedatives.  Whatcha said is the EXACT OPPOSITE.  Opioids are synthetic, opiates are derivatives/natural products chemistry.

They are — often — used interchangeably; but doing this is technically inaccurate, frowned upon, and will get your monograph shot down if you plan to use it in a self-referential manner, as a platform to mint some grant.  Or … if the peer review is feeling cranky that day, it’ll get it scored lower.

In other words: doan’ be doin’ dat mahn.

Just sayin’

Patrick

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From: <gboy@hush.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Deborah and patrick show again again
Date: July 7, 2004 at 4:47:35 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—–
Hash: SHA1

Could somebody in any part of the world besides where we are at which
is the united states
in case it wasn’t clear tell me what the Telemundo show said?

Was that a science or psychedelic drugs or addiction show last night?

The whole show is the Debrah and Patrick show, you guys have got that
nailed down. Then
the Dr. Mash being Dr. Mash then Patrick with Dr. Mash, then Patrick
alone sitting in front of
a psychedelic painting with of course lot of footage of his arms. Looking
good dog, everytime
I see you on tv your bigger and more defined mebbe you can personally
bring back grunge or
start psychedelic grunge, ohhhhhh tracks, sexxxxxxy.

Then there is some witch doctor or shaman where is this filmed, Patrick
what are you saying?
You are both dubbed into Spanish in the show I saw. Science, heroin,
ibogaine, religion,
psychedelics and 20 minutes of you and Mash again. Claims its broadcast
to 28 countries,
none of them the united states unless its on cable.

What was this thing? I don’t understand a word. Was this spanish, italian,
what? Patrick say
something brilliant. Do you have the tape?

.g
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From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Non-opiate narcotic
Date: July 7, 2004 at 4:34:30 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks Callie,

As I indicated in my earlier response technically only alkaloids/drugs
derived from the poppy are opiates.  Methadone is an opioid but, the basic
outcome
of effects is the same as for opiates: dependence, tolerance and
withdrawal.

Howard,

In the medical literature, the words “opiate” and “opioid” are generally
used interchangebly. There is a tendency to use “opiate” to describe
synthetic drugs, while “opioid” is more often used to describe natural
substances, either from the poppy or the human body.

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Non-opiate narcotic
Date: July 7, 2004 at 4:19:26 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/7/04 2:56:12 PM, CallieMimosa@aol.com writes:

Howard, From the Norchem link you  posted. Callie

URINE DRUG TEST FACT  SHEET
OPIATES
[_Heroin_ (http://www.norchemlab.com/reference/ds-opiates.htm#heroin) ]

[_Morphine_ (http://www.norchemlab.com/reference/ds-opiates.htm#morphine)
]
[_Codeine_ (http://www.norchemlab.com/reference/ds-opiates.htm#cod) ]

[_Hydrocodone_ (http://www.norchemlab.com/reference/ds-opiates.htm#hydrocod)
]
[_Hydromorphone_ (http://www.norchemlab.com/reference/ds-opiates.htm#hydromo)
]
[_Oxycodone_ (http://www.norchemlab.com/reference/ds-opiates.htm#oxy) ]

Classification: Narcotics
Background: The terms  “narcotics” and “opiates” are often used
interchangeably but are not exactly the  same. Narcotics are drugs that
numb the senses and
induce sleepiness. Some  non-opiate drugs also have narcotic properties.

Opiates are compounds derived  from opium, the milky residue of the opium
poppy
plant. Opium contains morphine  and codeine in a ratio of about five or
ten to
one. The naturally occurring  morphine and codeine can be altered in the

laboratory to produce  “semi-synthetic” opiates, of which there are many.
The most
notable  semi-synthetics, heroin, hydrocodone, hydromorphone and oxycodone
are
described  in more detail later. Poppy seeds contain enough codeine and

morphine so that  their consumption can cause both morphine and codeine
to be
detected in the  urine. Poppy seed consumption rarely results in a morphine
level
greater than  2000 ng/ml, whereas use of heroin or morphine usually leads
to
much higher  levels.
Legally  Prescribed Forms: The following table lists the most common opiates

and  non-opiate narcotics, along with their trade names. Many of these
may be
combined with acetaminophen or aspirin and prescribed in a single tablet.

[_Top_ (http://www.norchemlab.com/reference/ds-opiates.htm#top) ]
Table 1. The  following table contains commonly used opiates and opiate-like

drugs.    Drug Trade Name* Class Legal Use*  Buprenorphine Buprenex Opiate

narcotic Pain relief  Butorphanol Stadol Opiate narcotic Pain relief  Codeine

Empirin, Tylenol 3 Opiate narcotic Pain relief  Dextromethorphan Robitussen
DM
Opiate non-narcotic Cough suppression  Heroin None Opiate narcotic No
legal use
Hydrocodone Vicodin, Lortab  Opiate narcotic Pain relief  Hydromorhone

Dilaudid Opiate narcotic Pain relief  Levorphanol Dromoran Opiate narcotic
Pain
relief  Meperidine Demerol Non-opiate narcotic Pain relief  Methadone
Dolophine

Non-opiate narcotic Opiate dependency  Morphine MS-Contin Opiate narcotic
Pain
relief  Nalbuphine Nubian Opiate narcotic Pain relief  Naloxone Narcan
Opaite
anti-narcotic Narcotic overdose  Naltrexone Trexan Opiate anti-narcotic

Narcotic overdose  Oxycodone Percodan, Roxicet  Opiate narcotic Pain relief

Oxymorphone Numorphan Opiate narcotic Pain relief  Propoxyphene Darvon
Non-opiate
narcotic Pain relief    *  There may be other trade names or legal uses
which are
not  listed.

Thanks Callie,

As I indicated in my earlier response technically only alkaloids/drugs
derived from the poppy are opiates.  Methadone is an opioid but, the basic outcome
of effects is the same as for opiates: dependence, tolerance and withdrawal.

Howard

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From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Non-opiate narcotic
Date: July 7, 2004 at 4:11:11 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m not entirely sure where these people are getting this from, but they
are incorrect.

Narcotics, are by definition, chemicals derived from the opium poppy, or
synthetic chemicals that have a similar structure to chemical from the
poppy.

A narcotic is NOT just a drug “that numbs the senses and induces
sleepiness”; there are MANY drugs that do these things that are NOT
narcotics (benzodiazepines, barbituates, etc).

ALL narcotics are opiates, and vice versa. A drug MUST have a similar
chemical structure to morphine and similar effects to be correctly
considered a narcotic. Both meperdine (demerol) and methodone are opiates.

Howard, From the Norchem link you  posted. Callie

URINE DRUG TEST FACT  SHEET
OPIATES
[_Heroin_ (http://www.norchemlab.com/reference/ds-opiates.htm#heroin) ]
[_Morphine_ (http://www.norchemlab.com/reference/ds-opiates.htm#morphine)
]
[_Codeine_ (http://www.norchemlab.com/reference/ds-opiates.htm#cod) ]
[_Hydrocodone_
(http://www.norchemlab.com/reference/ds-opiates.htm#hydrocod) ]
[_Hydromorphone_
(http://www.norchemlab.com/reference/ds-opiates.htm#hydromo) ]
[_Oxycodone_ (http://www.norchemlab.com/reference/ds-opiates.htm#oxy) ]
Classification: Narcotics
Background: The terms  “narcotics” and “opiates” are often used
interchangeably but are not exactly the  same. Narcotics are drugs that
numb the senses and
induce sleepiness. Some  non-opiate drugs also have narcotic properties.
Opiates are compounds derived  from opium, the milky residue of the opium
poppy
plant. Opium contains morphine  and codeine in a ratio of about five or
ten to
one. The naturally occurring  morphine and codeine can be altered in the
laboratory to produce  “semi-synthetic” opiates, of which there are many.
The most
notable  semi-synthetics, heroin, hydrocodone, hydromorphone and oxycodone
are
described  in more detail later. Poppy seeds contain enough codeine and
morphine so that  their consumption can cause both morphine and codeine to
be
detected in the  urine. Poppy seed consumption rarely results in a
morphine level
greater than  2000 ng/ml, whereas use of heroin or morphine usually leads
to
much higher  levels.
Legally  Prescribed Forms: The following table lists the most common
opiates
and  non-opiate narcotics, along with their trade names. Many of these may
be
combined with acetaminophen or aspirin and prescribed in a single tablet.
[_Top_ (http://www.norchemlab.com/reference/ds-opiates.htm#top) ]
Table 1. The  following table contains commonly used opiates and
opiate-like
drugs.    Drug Trade Name* Class Legal Use*  Buprenorphine Buprenex Opiate
narcotic Pain relief  Butorphanol Stadol Opiate narcotic Pain relief
Codeine
Empirin, Tylenol 3 Opiate narcotic Pain relief  Dextromethorphan
Robitussen DM
Opiate non-narcotic Cough suppression  Heroin None Opiate narcotic No
legal use
Hydrocodone Vicodin, Lortab  Opiate narcotic Pain relief  Hydromorhone
Dilaudid Opiate narcotic Pain relief  Levorphanol Dromoran Opiate narcotic
Pain
relief  Meperidine Demerol Non-opiate narcotic Pain relief  Methadone
Dolophine
Non-opiate narcotic Opiate dependency  Morphine MS-Contin Opiate narcotic
Pain
relief  Nalbuphine Nubian Opiate narcotic Pain relief  Naloxone Narcan
Opaite
anti-narcotic Narcotic overdose  Naltrexone Trexan Opiate anti-narcotic
Narcotic overdose  Oxycodone Percodan, Roxicet  Opiate narcotic Pain
relief
Oxymorphone Numorphan Opiate narcotic Pain relief  Propoxyphene Darvon
Non-opiate
narcotic Pain relief    *  There may be other trade names or legal uses
which are
not  listed.

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Non-opiate narcotic
Date: July 7, 2004 at 3:55:24 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Howard, From the Norchem link you posted. Callie

URINE DRUG TEST FACT SHEET
OPIATES
[Heroin] [Morphine] [Codeine] [Hydrocodone] [Hydromorphone] [Oxycodone]
Classification: Narcotics
Background: The terms “narcotics” and “opiates” are often used interchangeably but are not exactly the same. Narcotics are drugs that numb the senses and induce sleepiness. Some non-opiate drugs also have narcotic properties. Opiates are compounds derived from opium, the milky residue of the opium poppy plant. Opium contains morphine and codeine in a ratio of about five or ten to one. The naturally occurring morphine and codeine can be altered in the laboratory to produce “semi-synthetic” opiates, of which there are many. The most notable semi-synthetics, heroin, hydrocodone, hydromorphone and oxycodone are described in more detail later. Poppy seeds contain enough codeine and morphine so that their consumption can cause both morphine and codeine to be detected in the urine. Poppy seed consumption rarely results in a morphine level greater than 2000 ng/ml, whereas use of heroin or morphine usually leads to much higher levels.
Legally Prescribed Forms: The following table lists the most common opiates and non-opiate narcotics, along with their trade names. Many of these may be combined with acetaminophen or aspirin and prescribed in a single tablet. [Top]
Table 1. The following table contains commonly used opiates and opiate-like drugs.
Drug
Trade Name*
Class
Legal Use*
Buprenorphine
Buprenex
Opiate narcotic
Pain relief
Butorphanol
Stadol
Opiate narcotic
Pain relief
Codeine
Empirin, Tylenol 3
Opiate narcotic
Pain relief
Dextromethorphan
Robitussen DM
Opiate non-narcotic
Cough suppression
Heroin
None
Opiate narcotic
No legal use
Hydrocodone
Vicodin, Lortab
Opiate narcotic
Pain relief
Hydromorhone
Dilaudid
Opiate narcotic
Pain relief
Levorphanol
Dromoran
Opiate narcotic
Pain relief
Meperidine
Demerol
Non-opiate narcotic
Pain relief
Methadone
Dolophine
Non-opiate narcotic
Opiate dependency
Morphine
MS-Contin
Opiate narcotic
Pain relief
Nalbuphine
Nubian
Opiate narcotic
Pain relief
Naloxone
Narcan
Opaite anti-narcotic
Narcotic overdose
Naltrexone
Trexan
Opiate anti-narcotic
Narcotic overdose
Oxycodone
Percodan, Roxicet
Opiate narcotic
Pain relief
Oxymorphone
Numorphan
Opiate narcotic
Pain relief
Propoxyphene
Darvon
Non-opiate narcotic
Pain relief

* There may be other trade names or legal uses which are not listed.

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW ::: The dis-ease of christianity
Date: July 7, 2004 at 2:34:41 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/7/04 12:10:20 PM, CallieMimosa@aol.com writes:

I did not know that Methadone is a non-opiate narcotic!
thanks, that has a lot of info.
Tammy

Tammy,

Where did the statement “Methadone is a non-opiate narcotic” come from? While
possibly specifically true in that it is not derived from the opium poppy and
not an “opiate”, it is an opioid, a class of drugs including opiates and
synthetic variants that act like opiates.

Howard

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From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Disease Concept
Date: July 7, 2004 at 1:27:13 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Funny you mention the DSM Howard cause I was going to say…in  1982 (I
think
that is correct year!) alcoholism/addiction was listed in the DSM  (it was
DSM III then, I think it is DSM VI now)as a disease. I was working on a
substance unit and this was a big deal for insurance purposes! This is
when
alcoholism/addiction was rationalized by the ‘disease  concept’.

Nothing in the DSM (of any version) is called a “disease”. They are called
“disorders”.

The most significant difference is that the word “disease” is usually used
when there is some identifiable instigating agent, like a virus or
bacteria. “Disorder” is usually used when the condition develops as a
result of a combination of internal and external forces.

While we’re on the subject, one poing i haven’t yet brought up is that
researchers have recently found genetic markers that seem to play a role
in the development of addiction. I think that leads credence to the
disorder concept; as such disorders (schizophrenia, depression, etc) are
often hereditary.

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From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW ::: The dis-ease of christianity
Date: July 7, 2004 at 1:23:05 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

pick  your drug and check it out.

I did not know that Methadone is a non-opiate narcotic!
thanks, that has a lot of info.
Tammy

Ummm. Opiate is a synonym for narcotic, they mean the same thing. There
are no non-opiate narcotics; that would be like saying something is
non-pot marijuana.

Methadone is a synthetic opiate (or narcotic), like demerol or oxycodone.

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Disease Concept
Date: July 7, 2004 at 1:19:18 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/7/2004 11:57:42 AM Central Daylight Time, HSLotsof@aol.com writes:
I think it important to remember that less than twenty years ago the
Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) categorized being gay as a
mental disorder.

Funny you mention the DSM Howard cause I was going to say…in 1982 (I think that is correct year!) alcoholism/addiction was listed in the DSM (it was DSM III then, I think it is DSM VI now)as a disease. I was working on a substance unit and this was a big deal for insurance purposes! This is when alcoholism/addiction was rationalized by the ‘disease concept’.
Callie

From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW
Date: July 7, 2004 at 1:19:30 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jon,

I think it important to remember that less than twenty years ago the
Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) categorized
being gay as a
mental disorder.

But there is a very significant difference between being homosexual and
being a drug addict. Being attracted to people of the same sex is not a
self-destructive behaviour; being unable to stop using drugs even when
they are destroying your life certainly is.

It is also very important to acknowledge the difference between being a
drug user and a drug addict. It would certainly be wrong to label anyone
who uses drugs as having an illness or disorder. But there is a world of
difference between a casual drug user, and an addict.

It seems to me that addiction, not drug use, cleary meets the criteria for
mental illness. Mental illness being defined as a set of thoughts,
emotions, and behaviours that significantly impair social, occupational,
and/or personal functioning, and have a predictable course of development.

I feel certain that if we were by recombinant DNA technology able to
eliminate the need for food that those of us who could not avail
themselves to the new
technology and required food would be categorized and treated as drug
users
are today.  It is also useful to remember that food withdrawal always
results
in death.

Howard, I don’t mean to sound disrespectful, but this is a straw man
argument. Not only is it rather unlikely to ever happen, but it’s a poor
analogy for drug use. Eating is not maladaptive or self-destructive, drug
addiction is. And I’m not talking about binge eating or anything, because
I think that too is evidently a mental illness.

But eating when it isn’t strictly necessary is a far cry from being unable
to go more than 5 hours without jamming a spike of metal into your arm.
They are two completely dissimilar behaviours. Now, the individual who
MUST eat, who can’t control their impulses to eat despite excessive weight
gain, heart problems, etc., that person should rightly be considered to
have a mental illness. THAT would be analagous to drug addiction, because
they are the same behaviours, and the same cognitions, just a different
substance of addiction.

jon

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW ::: The dis-ease of christianity
Date: July 7, 2004 at 1:09:33 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/6/2004 11:26:04 PM Central Daylight Time, HSLotsof@aol.com writes:
pick your drug and check it out.

I did not know that Methadone is a non-opiate narcotic!
thanks, that has a lot of info.
Tammy

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW
Date: July 7, 2004 at 12:56:49 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/7/04 11:09:46 AM, jfreed1@umbc.edu writes:

Well, but remember, there’s different kinds of “sick”.

There are acute illnesses, like the flu or pneumonia, where the illness
has a very short time of onset, and a set of symptoms that don’t last very
long, but are pretty much present for the duration of the illness.

Then there are chronic illnesses, like diabetes and schizophrenia, and
in my opinion, addiction. Chronic illnesses take a long time to develop, and
affect the person for an extended period of time. But the symptoms aren’t
always present. Like in schizophrenia.. a schizophrenic will typically
have a psychotic episode that lasts some number of months, then they’ll
have another few months, or even years, where they are almost symptom-free
(called a period of lucidity). Then they’ll have another psychotic
episode, then another period of lucidity, then another psychotic episode,
etc. By engaging in treatment, the intensity of the psychotic episodes
can be reduced over time.

It seems to me, addiction follows a similar pattern. As to whether you’re
in denial or not, that’s something only you can really answer. Ask
yourself some questions… is your drug use causing you problems at work
or in relationships with your gf or other friends? if so, how severe are
these problems? what happens if you run out of drugs, would you be able
to manage?  do you do things you regret in order to get ahold of drugs? do
you do things you regret when you’re on drugs? etc

if you answer yes to a lot of those questions, you might want to consider
reevaluating things. if those things aren’t problems for you, then i’d
probably say you are a drug user, not an abuser. and i think there’s a
major difference between the two anyway, take care… i think it’s been a
good discussion so far =)

Jon,

I think it important to remember that less than twenty years ago the
Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) categorized being gay as a
mental disorder.

I feel certain that if we were by recombinant DNA technology able to
eliminate the need for food that those of us who could not avail themselves to the new
technology and required food would be categorized and treated as drug users
are today.  It is also useful to remember that food withdrawal always results
in death.

Howard

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From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW
Date: July 7, 2004 at 12:09:24 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I definitely see what you’re saying and experience where you’re coming
from
here Jon, and Marko.
And I am not one hundred percent set in my opinion. I have doubts
about
what to call my own state of affairs, and sometimes feel like breaking
down
and saying, yeah, I’m sick. But not always. I usually feel that way when I
am out of opiates and feeling sad and depressed.
I guess what I’m saying is that while I cannot find it in myself to
call
myself “sick” all the time, I do wonder often if I’m merely in “denial”
about it.

Well, but remember, there’s different kinds of “sick”.

There are acute illnesses, like the flu or pneumonia, where the illness
has a very short time of onset, and a set of symptoms that don’t last very
long, but are pretty much present for the duration of the illness.

Then there are chronic illnesses, like diabetes and schizophrenia, and in
my opinion, addiction. Chronic illnesses take a long time to develop, and
affect the person for an extended period of time. But the symptoms aren’t
always present. Like in schizophrenia.. a schizophrenic will typically
have a psychotic episode that lasts some number of months, then they’ll
have another few months, or even years, where they are almost symptom-free
(called a period of lucidity). Then they’ll have another psychotic
episode, then another period of lucidity, then another psychotic episode,
etc. By engaging in treatment, the intensity of the psychotic episodes can
be reduced over time.

It seems to me, addiction follows a similar pattern. As to whether you’re
in denial or not, that’s something only you can really answer. Ask
yourself some questions… is your drug use causing you problems at work
or in relationships with your gf or other friends? if so, how severe are
these problems? what happens if you run out of drugs, would you be able to
manage?  do you do things you regret in order to get ahold of drugs? do
you do things you regret when you’re on drugs? etc

if you answer yes to a lot of those questions, you might want to consider
reevaluating things. if those things aren’t problems for you, then i’d
probably say you are a drug user, not an abuser. and i think there’s a
major difference between the two.

anyway, take care… i think it’s been a good discussion so far =)

jon

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Fw: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW
Date: July 7, 2004 at 11:15:41 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi folks,
This is the reply I got from Jules, the subscriber with the mentioned
breast-feeding or lack thereof ideas, along with the URL to this and other
of Jules’ interesting musings.
Peace,
Preston

The URL:

http://www.cafecancun.com/bookarts/robot.htm

The reply:

—– Original Message —–
From: “Jules Siegel” <siegel@cafecancun.com>
To: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 9:10 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW

Preston Peet wrote:

I can’t really say, not knowing for sure who else I know who uses/used
had a similar lack of breasts in their childhood.

We can look at population groups by cohort. When did bottle-feeding
begin, peak and descend? Drug use? Cigarettes? Alcohol? Fast food?

It would be an interesting chart. I’ll look into it.

It gets a little complicated because the issue isn’t just breastfeeding,
but separating infants from mothers, keeping them in cribs and playpens,
aggressive early toilet training and supression of infant sexuality.
Excessive physical and psychological punishment is also an important
factor.

I have been reading “The Magic Cloak” by James Clark Moloney, M.D>, who
turned me on to this. This was his first book. He lays out the
differences between the Ainu of Okinawa (natural childrearing) and the
people of Guam (Christian missionary style). All the vices and pains of
civilization were in full bloom on Guam, but rare on Okinawa. When the
Okinawans moved to Hawaii and acculturated with the Japanese there, they
soon began to display the same symptoms.


JULES SIEGEL Apdo. 1764 77501-Cancun Q. Roo Mexico
http://www.cafecancun.com/bookarts/robot.htm

Newsroom-l, news and issues for journalists
http://www.newsroom-l.net

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW
Date: July 7, 2004 at 8:59:51 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

There’s a subscriber on my DrugWar.com list who has similar theories about
addiction and breat feeding I believe, if I’m reading his work correctly,
and I think he’s got something about it up on his website, but I’ll have to
wait for him to send me a URL to supply that.
I never experienced the breast feeding thing so far as I know, having
been given up at birth by the very young mom-type who hatched me. So maybe
there’s something to it. I can’t really say, not knowing for sure who else I
know who uses/used had a similar lack of breasts in their childhood.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 4:25 PM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW

My idea about  addiction is that it comes from “not getting breast fed
By
mom after birth”.
That is for a start, then the whole family & environmental situation,
Like child vaccine and other confusing things we get from adults as
kids.
Looking for a fix is looking for emotional satisfaction, just like a
baby
Who needs his mom, comfort and warmth. And that has nothing to do with
logical mind control but illogical emotional need.
I’m not a great researcher in this field and this is only an Idea.

That seems like a logical theory.

I’m not sure what my breast-feeding was like, but I do have a very strong
oral fixation.. one of the main reasons I find it so difficult to quit
smoking; i feel as though i need to have something in my mouth, a
cigarette, a bowl, or food…

your theory also reminds me somewhat of Eric Taub’s theory on the etiology
of addiction, that much addiction results from an unstable or absent
bonding with the individual’s parent of the same sex (rather than the
mother). It’s been a while since I read his stuff, but it was something
along the same lines as what you’re saying… that the individual takes
drugs to fill a hole left by unfulfilling parenting…

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW
Date: July 7, 2004 at 8:44:36 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Did it ever occured to you that people with “disease” or several of them
are easier to manipulate??<

Yes, it has.
I don’t think I’m really disagreeing with anything anyone else has written,
it’s just that I hesitate to label myself sick for my wanting to use illicit
drugs.
For not being able to stop at will, yes, sometimes I’d like to say to the
world, “ok, I’m sick, now fuck off,” or “yeah, I’m sick, now what’s the
sure-fire cure for my ills?” but it doesn’t seem to work quite like that, or
at least, it doesn’t help much to say that, so I tend not to.
Anyway, respect to all, sick and not so sick included.
Maybe I’ll feel differently if and when I ever do get to try ibogaine.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Marko” <marko@mindvox.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 1:56 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW

Preston,

it’s not only drug users, EVERYBODY is sick! There is a model of a
perfectly healthy human being, and every deviation from this perfection is
called a “disease”. And it has a nice latin name.

If you cough -> you have a disease. If you don’t see colours as everybody
else does (should!) -> you have a disease. If you hear ringing -> you have
a disease (although don Juan stated that ringing in your ears means that
you’re ready to be pulled… or something)

I guess that you (and not just you) have at least 5 diseases you don’t
even know about! Addiction is that “Mysterious Disease” 🙂

Did it ever occured to you that people with “disease” or several of them
are easier to manipulate??

Prohibition is … huhm … the way our Dear Govenments take care of us.
Something that is bad for you is prohibited. I guess… Unless it turns
out that it’s really good for you… or that Our Dear Governments will
profit from it –> as it happened with alcohol prohibition last century in
US of A, as it happens with tobacco and thousands of other chemicals
nowdays ;-))

Marko

On Tue, 6 Jul 2004, Preston Peet wrote:

Actually, one more time-
Not only do I not buy the whole “druggies are sick” paradigm, I also
think it a genuine crime to continue to treat druggies as simply sick
people, because so long as people continue to do so, the druggies will
continue to feel so, instead of feeling like human beings like everyone
else, in need of love, contact and respect.
We tend to ostracize, alienate and quarantine sickies, no?
I don’t want pity and compassion because I do drugs- I want respect
and
love because I’m a human being.
SOME people are in a place whereby they are hurting themselves
through
their drug abuse, and in many of those cases, I do actually believe that
there is something psychological going on, but not a disease.
Did I say that already?
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Marko” <marko@mindvox.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 7:40 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW

World Health Organization (WHO) classifies addiction as disease. So,
it’s
classified as such in every UN member country… or at least it should
be.

Marko

On Mon, 5 Jul 2004, jon f. wrote:

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3
seconds….

Yes, unfortunately yer right in that to feed that disease I must
face
the
wrath of a puritanical society determined to put me in my place
for
daring
want to use the substances that make me feel most human- human I
write, at
least when not being chased through the blood and mud of a life
lived
as a
target of prohibitionist maniacs.
Peace,
Preston

i dunno man, i think calling it a disease, or probably more
appropriately
a disorder, helps to break down the purtianical madness.

if it’s a medical issue (and i think it is), then nobody has any
business
chastising you or punishing you for being an addict. it’s not a
“moral
failure”, it’s a health problem.

and, being a health problem, it is just as despicable for the
prohibitionists to attack addicts as it would be to attack someone
with
cancer or whatnot.

i think the key to improving life for addicts in this country is to
get
people to realise that addiction needs to be treated like any other
health
issue; that is, objectively and compassionately.

jon

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW
Date: July 7, 2004 at 8:38:50 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I don’t believe addiction is an illness because the WHO says so.. I
believe it’s an illness because I’ve experienced it myself.<

I definitely see what you’re saying and experience where you’re coming from
here Jon, and Marko.
And I am not one hundred percent set in my opinion. I have doubts about
what to call my own state of affairs, and sometimes feel like breaking down
and saying, yeah, I’m sick. But not always. I usually feel that way when I
am out of opiates and feeling sad and depressed.
I guess what I’m saying is that while I cannot find it in myself to call
myself “sick” all the time, I do wonder often if I’m merely in “denial”
about it.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 1:56 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW

World Health Organization (WHO) classifies addiction as disease. So,
it’s
classified as such in every UN member country… or at least it should
be.

I don’t believe addiction is an illness because the WHO says so.. I
believe it’s an illness because I’ve experienced it myself.

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW ::: The dis-ease of christianity
Date: July 7, 2004 at 12:25:03 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/6/04 10:00:55 PM, UUSEAN@aol.com writes:

I remember reading afew years ago that coke takes 72 hours to clear.  Has
this been proven incorrect?

Metabolism and Detection Time in Urine: In the body cocaine is rapidly
converted to benzoylecgonine and ecgonine-methyl-ester which are eliminated in the
urine. Only a small fraction of the parent cocaine is eliminated in the urine
and its detection time following use is short compared to the cocaine
metabolites. The presence of benzoylecgonine is accepted evidence of cocaine use and
can be detected in the urine for as long as 2-5 days after use.

This is just one page but, pick your drug and check it out.

http://www.norchemlab.com/reference/drugindex.htm

Do a google.com search for urine drug screens or drug clearnece in urine
testing.

Howard

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From: Nowwarat@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW ::: The dis-ease of christianity
Date: July 6, 2004 at 11:46:06 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I   don’t trust the clearance schedule.

Nowwarat

From: Nowwarat@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW ::: The dis-ease of christianity
Date: July 6, 2004 at 11:44:19 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I swear I came up at 6 days once.

Nowwarat

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW ::: The dis-ease of christianity
Date: July 6, 2004 at 11:00:10 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Howard,

I remember reading afew years ago that coke takes 72 hours to clear.  Has this been proven incorrect?

Thanks,
sean

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW ::: The dis-ease of christianity
Date: July 6, 2004 at 10:56:34 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/6/04 8:54:59 PM, swbooker@hotmail.com writes:

Last question? How long do opiates like codeine stay in one’s body,
such as how long before getting a UA do I need to come out clean?
I’m enjoying this discussion a lot and best to all you out there…
Sandy

Some labs say three days.  Four might be better.  What I found interesting is
that cocaine, a stimulant requires five days to clear.

Howard

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From: Patrick K. Kroupa <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [vox] Mr. Lord Digital on heroin ibogaine and apple piracy 😉
Date: July 6, 2004 at 10:52:55 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: vox@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Jul 6, 2004, at 7:27 PM, Vector Vector wroteD:

<A whole lotta shit, now, sadly, deleted…>

Vector … please don’t cross-post shit across all the lists, and then cut and paste the full contents of files which have absolutely nothing to do with the forum you’re dumping ’em into.

I realize you do this infrequently, but, like, bitchslap yourself upside the head, take your meds, light up a blunt and … chill.

The Vox list is *NOT* the ibogaine list.  They are VERY DIFFERENT.  For the most part, people on the Vox list just do drugs, and then talk about something else.

Thanks much,

Patrick

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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW
Date: July 6, 2004 at 10:46:17 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Jim,

I want to say first that I respect your onion concerning the disease concept, but for me the disease concept was disempowering no matter how I looked at it.  NA/AA have set up this dichotomy where addiction is either a moral question, or as you suggest a medical question (even though AA did originate the disease concept).

I think what I was getting at is that there is more to the equation.  I think that reasons people use are more important the physiology.  Some use recreational pleasure with little or no consequences, and some used like me, in a self destructive and dangerous way with huge consequences.  However, I was still obtaining benefit from my use, which is why I believe I followed drugs down the path to HIV and HepC.

From my point of view thinking of myself as diseased doesn’t cut it concerning my drug use.  Rather I want to understand why I was set on self destruct(and some days still am, just have not acted on it.)  I totally agree that most of the time moral arguements are completely unhelpful.

sean

From: “booker w” <swbooker@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW ::: The dis-ease of christianity
Date: July 6, 2004 at 9:53:57 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ya man, I like your ideas and feel that addiction might originate in the spiritual “disconnect.”  Someone on this list suggested Eckhart Tolle and I’ve been listening to his stuff.  He claims there’s so much addiction because we’re in our minds too much which basically is making us insane (which I see evidence of everywhere, and feel it too.)  The drugs give relief no doubt from my mind spinning, but Tolle’s solution is to feel one’s “inner body.”  Nowarrat said he was very bad at tolerating pain and discomfort.  Boy is that my problem as well – so I ain’t good at feeling my body alot of the time.
I agree that there’s no one reason folks are addicts, but I think the spiritual part is significant – can’t blame it all on one religion tho, myself – but just the loss of connection with the earth in general.  I think Christianity is definitely a “head” religion, but I think everywhere we’ve lost the earth balance, no matter if you’re a christian or an atheist (or anything else too.)
Last question?  How long do opiates like codeine stay in one’s body, such as how long before getting a UA do I need to come out clean?
I’m enjoying this discussion a lot and best to all you out there…  Sandy
>From: D H <dave@phantom.com>

>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW  ::: The dis-ease of christianity

>Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 08:57:19 -1000

>

>

>On Monday, July 5, 2004, at 07:47 AM, UUSEAN@aol.com wrote:

>>

>>I agree with you concerning the disease model of addiction.  It

>>also shows how fucked up US drug policy is.  On one hand the most

>>accepted “treatment” for addiction is a disease model, while police

>>wage war on the supposedly sick.

>

>My 2 cents… I don’t necessarily buy into the disease model 100%. I

>like to call it Dis-Ease. I think certain people are pre-disposed to

>it genetically, I believe it also has to do with the makeup of the

>brain chemistry. I think it is really a spiritual dis-connection.

>

>and…

>

>I also think that christianity has been a major factor. Before the

>onslaught of forced christianity, people across the planet had their

>own cultural and spiritual beliefs. These people and cultures had

>tribal communities that practiced spiritual rites, and were very

>connected to the earth (most of their ceremonies were designed

>around blessing the earth and its elements, and giving thanks) I

>have yet to see any evidence of addiction in these pre-christian

>cultures. Then along comes the self-rightous, christian religion,

>basically saying “our way or you will go to hell”. People were

>tortured, raped and murdered and their indigenous cultures all but

>destroyed (in the name of “god” – or white mans interpretation of

>the word of god ). Our earth based rituals were denounced as “pagan”

>and therefore evil, and the only way to redemption was through the

>christian church, by giving your money and lands over to “THE” word

>of god. And in most cases, if you didn’t give, it was taken. And

>how. The Roman Catholic Church has the largest land holdings of any

>one entity in the entire world. More blood has been spilled in the

>name of christianity than any other single cause in recorded

>history.

>

>This left a whole lot of people completely uprooted and severed from

>their true spiritual connection, and sought ways to escape their

>depressing predicament. Many of these people had used psychedelic

>plants to connect spiritually, which was also outlawed by the church

>and denounced as witchcraft. A whole lot of people began to seek

>solace in the bottle (and guess who the brewers were? – the

>christian monks!) as the church destroyed everything that was true

>and sacred. Eventually opium came west and its soothing effects were

>discovered by those in need of relief. And as time and trade and

>medical science expanded, cocaine and all the other drugs made their

>way into peoples blood streams… which again has always been seen

>as evil and lacking in social and moral acceptance by the church and

>government, which historically has always been intertwined. The

>downward spiral continues, like a dragon devouring its own tail…

>people seeking some sort of relief from whatever ails them (which I

>consider in most cases a spiritual detachment), and end up being

>shamed for seeking an altered state that is basically Human kinds

>birthright… we are genetically coded to seek altered states of

>consciousness (and ask questions). Psychedelics have played a major

>role in the evolution and development of man as a species… take

>away our connection to that and we will seek whatever is available.

>And I believe that all started with Christianity being forced down

>our throats.

>

>Even the orginal Iboga eaters had Christianity forced down their

>throats. They, like other cultures, merged Christianity with their

>own beliefs.

>

>I guess you could say christianity is like a disease… it has

>spread and mutated and killed countless humans and entire cultures.

>

>If you are christian and find this offensive… well… I can’t say

>I’m sorry.

>

>-dh

Check out the latest news, polls and tools in the MSN 2004 Election Guide! /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%](> Further Information & List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW
Date: July 6, 2004 at 9:49:55 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

Hi Marco,

In the US, the physicians call addiction a disease (AMA) while the
psychologists do not (APA).

Psychologists generally call it a disorder, sometimes illness. Same is
usually true for psychiatrists.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW
Date: July 6, 2004 at 9:48:30 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

Hi Preston,

Not only is the treating addicts as sick debasing, but the “cure”
powerlessness is for, at least someone like myself, really dangerous.  For me it was
learned helplessness.  Of course I use, I have a disease, and I am powerless, and
haven’t hit bottom.  Now pass me that crackpipe and rig and make it quick!

<snip>

I think addressing the problem medically is actually empowering. If you
treat it as a moralistic issue (like NA does), then the addict is seen as
someone with an irredeemable character defect. From the moral perspective,
once an addict, always an addict.

If the addict is treated as someone with an illness, it sets up a
paradigm where the addict can achieve control over his/her behaviour. I
approach my drug problems the same way i approach my depression. They are
both things i have needed help to confront, but they have both been
things that i’ve been able to control. I am not depressed because I am a
bad person, and i’m not an addict because i’m a bad person. I am both
because I have developed unhealthy reactions to stresses.. behaviours i’ve
been picking up since my birth. But behaviours can be unlearned with
appropriate guidance and perserverance. And that’s very empowering to me.

jon

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] unsubscribe?
Date: July 6, 2004 at 9:33:03 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/6/2004 10:16:23 AM Central Daylight Time, scottmarkwell@toast.net writes:
How do I unsubscribe? I click the link that says ‘further information and list commands’ but there is nothing there but some graphics.

For help and a description of available commands, send a message to:
<ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
Callie

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?
Date: July 6, 2004 at 9:30:21 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/6/2004 3:38:38 AM Central Daylight Time, lchristoffersen@hotmail.com writes:
Neurophen

I bet that might be what is causing your tinnitis. Depends on how much of it you are taking.
The info I found on it says it includes Ibuprofen, Paracetamol (acetaminophen, tylenol) and Parafon Forte which is a muscle relaxant. Wish we had that available here in the States! Sounds like a GREAT over the counter headache remedy!
Luke, sounds like you are going in the right direction! It is important for me to remember it took 30 years for me to get this fucked up…..it might take 10 or 15 for me to get straightened out! lol!
Peace and hope you keep posting!
Callie

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW
Date: July 6, 2004 at 8:47:54 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Preston,

Not only is the treating addicts as sick debasing, but the “cure” powerlessness is for, at least someone like myself, really dangerous.  For me it was learned helplessness.  Of course I use, I have a disease, and I am powerless, and haven’t hit bottom.  Now pass me that crackpipe and rig and make it quick!

I know that friends and family console themselves by saying, “he has a disease” when I fucked them over, but that only gave me an excuse to fuck them over more.
It’s interesting when at some point the shit really hits the fan, you don’t hear about disease anymore, but rather you get hit with reality.  Your fucking up your life and mine, now get away from me.

Once deciding that I am not powerless and I can make decisions about my use, I stopped hurting everybody in my life.  I actually have not smoked crack or shot dope since.  Interesting how being empowered and in charge of my life helped me to make the changes I would never make when I saw myself as diseased and powerless.

That just my experience, though.  I have friends for whom 12 steps and total abstinence has really worked for.  My hat goes off to them.  That just ain’t me.

Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW
Date: July 6, 2004 at 8:37:38 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Marco,

In the US, the physicians call addiction a disease (AMA) while the psychologists do not (APA).

Sean

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: [vox] Mr. Lord Digital on heroin ibogaine and apple piracy 😉
Date: July 6, 2004 at 7:27:19 PM EDT
To: vox@mindvox.com, ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Carla where do you find Telemundo??

This is too surreal 🙂 Wait what am I saying its mindvox 🙂

These are the best ones I’ve found in the last 10 minutes

I promise I’ll cut this out, last message 🙂 🙂

.:vector:.

http://www.textfiles.com/bbs/MINDVOX/mindvox.words.txt

julio
::::::::::::::
is a narc

lod
::::::::::::::

$$LOD$LOD$LOD$LOD$LOD$LOD$LOD$LOD$LOD$LOD$LOD$LOD$LOD$LOD$LOD$LOD$LOD$LOD$LOD$$
LOD
LOD
$$$ LOD Never Dies! / We just re-appear in sequels!  We shall proudly
reign $$$
$L$ forever and —  <cough>  <cough> Hey . . . where’s my heart
medication? $L$
$O$ And my funny  hat, I WANT MY FUNNY HAT *RIGHT NOW* or I’m going to
have $O$
$D$ a stroke.  You  whippersnappers, why in my day  we used 40 columns
and $D$
$$$ UPPERCASE AND 300 BAUD.  AND WE LIKED IT, Why I can remember when .
. . $$$
LOD
LOD
$$LOD$LOD$LOD$LOD$LOD$LOD$LOD$LOD$LOD$LOD$LOD$LOD$LOD$LOD$LOD$LOD$LOD$LOD$LOD$$

mindvox
::::::::::::::
MindVox.  We help people to hurt themselves.

::::::::::::::
mod
::::::::::::::

Hacking Secrets of the MoD Revealed!
————————————

Hey Mark, what command do I type on the DMS100 to turn off Erikb’s
phone line?

http://www.textfiles.com/apple/PIRACY/applemaf.txt

*******************************************************************************
*******
*******
*******                      The Apple Mafia Story
*******
*******
*******
*******                      As Told To: Red Ghost
*******
*******
*******
*******************************************************************************

The reason I’m writing this file is to (hopefully) once and for all,
clear up
all the rumors, false statements, and just lies, that are going around
about
one of the first 3 pirate groups ever. (Untouchables, Apple Mafia,
Dirty Dozen)

I won’t get into the other two, because there already is “The
Untouchables”
story, and I’m not qualified to make comments about the Dirty Dozen.

Everything in this file is fact. I grew up in Queens NY (now 718).
Where many
of the “original” pirates and phreaks, were from. Many of the readers
will
question certain aspects of this file, or my authority to write it. But
they
are always more than welcome to go to the sources themselves and find
the truth
is what I am writing.

*******************************************************************************

To begin with, I’m now 22 and going to college. I have been out of the
“wares
world” for the better part of 2 years. What prompted me to write this
is a
younger friend of mine, who is now a “pirate” and spends his life
calling all
the boards, and getting all the wares (Not making fun of anyone, I went

through the same phase when I started, but it was very different from
the
pirates world of today). About a week ago he told me about the “Apple
Mafia”
regrouping. I said bullshit. And I was right. He gave me some of the
files
on discussions now going on about the “new” “apple mafia” and I must
say it’s
pretty sad.

I felt the real story of what went on should be told, so here it is.

One more thing before I start. I was never in the Apple Mafia, or any
of the
other groups mentioned here. I never had that deep an interest in
computers
as anything but game machines or better typewriters. But I grew up in
close
proximety to many of the people involved, and spent time with them in
other
areas besides computers.

*******************************************************************************

From the messages posted about the controversy I have seen. I think it
might be
best to go through them 1 by 1. So here’s the first one:

(Buffer of msg’s. Untouched by me, except the conversion from 40 to 80
cols.)

*******************************************************************************

To:The Fake Apple Mafia                 From:Disk Rigger

You are definatly not the real Apple Mafia. It was a popular group a
while ago.
It incluted Bioc Agent 003, Tuc, Hight Technology, Creative Cracker and
a few
others. I will inform them of you losers using there names and you will
be
ragged out of your minds. I would recomend you changed your group name
or you
will feel the wrath of Bioc!
This is serious and you losers can keep your unoriginal name but You
will pay
for it.

(Someone’s reply.)

Disk Digger:
Get a life dude. The Apple Mafia is OVER. BIOC Agent was thrown out of
the Apple Mafia. The final members were Tuc, Lord Digital, Creative
Cracker, High Technology, Big Brother the Phantom, Silicon Scorpion, &
Sherlock Apple. Nobody is going to Feel the wrath of Bioc
(hahahahahhahahahahha). because 1. he quit the phreak/pirate world over
a year
ago. 2. if he WAS around he wouldnt give a shit. 3. The old members who
are
still around probably care even less.

(Someone elses reply.)

While the new “apple mafia” (get a life you fuckups. you might as well
call
yourselves the Untouchables.) are idiots.
new warez r0dentz who sure as hell weren’t around when the REAL apple
mafia was
around, are even bigger r0dents. This means YOU disk digger.
Naming yourself after a program used to pack new wherez. get a life you
fat
fuckup. And if the people in the apple mafia knew YOU were throwing
their names
around on a fucking catfur, YOU are the one they would be mad at.

FUckup

*******************************************************************************

Despite incorrect statements in both parties messeges, this seems like
a good
time to point out that Bioc Agent was never in the Apple Mafia to begin
with.
The members changed through time, but Bioc was never a member. (More on
him at
a later time) The Final members were: (If you doubt this, then boot up
any ware
cracked by them in 84-85. Which was the final regrouping of the Mafia)

The Godfather (Charles). The Phantom (Eric). Creative Cracker (Marc).
High Technology (Craig). Lord Digital (Patrick). Jacque Lafitte (Jack).
The Magnet (Joe). Sherlock Apple (Dave). Silicon Scorpion (Mark).
Data Dragon (Jordon). Big Brother (Andy). & towards the very end: Tuc
(Scott).

Former members who were thrown out or quit: The Parasite, Tylenol
Cyanide,
Yosemite Sam, and people I don’t remember from CA.

(More Messages)

*******************************************************************************

Number > 7
Subject> Apple Mafia? (Ha)
Viewer > DISK RIGGER            <Elite>
Posted > MON MAR 17  4:24:17 PM

Genius. Are you talking about that
loser group in 213? They are in for it.
If you didnt know already there was
already a group Called Apple Mafia. Too
bad two of ’em were FEDS.

Hey, Where ANY of you ever on The Old
Sherwood Forest’s? [ /, //, /// ]?

(Another msg.)

Number > 8
Subject> SHERWOOD FORESTS
Author > CHRONOS
Posted > MON MAR 17  5:03:32 PM

Yeah, I was on // and ///… I never got an answer at / though…
Wasn’t the
Apple Mafia (later Micro Mafia) running those boards?

[chronos/KOTBC]

And didn’t they break up before they got busted?  I remember something
about
them just giving up, cause 2 guys were doing all the work…then they
put
Yellowbeard in charge and it was never heard from again…

(Another msg.)

Number > 13
Subject> Sherwood Forest
Viewer > WARE BANDIT            <Elite>
Posted > TUE MAR 18  3:43:11 PM

What two members of The Real Apple
Mafia were feds? Because I knew several
including High tech, and Creative.

And the reason you neve got an answer
at sherwood forest / was because that
was the old sherwood forest //… High
tech moved from Ny, and after he set it
up at his new place he called it
Sherwood forest //…. Well I have many
old files, and posts saved from the
last grand adventure (that was thier
logo), So if you would like to view
them then just leave me a message on
the underground.

later, [Ware Bandit]

(Another msg.)

Number > 14
Subject> WB..
Viewer > DISK RIGGER            <Elite>
Posted > TUE MAR 18  4:17:52 PM

I think Magnetic Surfer ran it. Yeah I
also have a lot of things saved on
Buffer. They had a LARGE G-File
section. And a TRUELY awesome Elite
sub.

And some people got the impression that
Creative Cracker was a lazy ass. It is
not true. The board was being runned by
Federal Agents. He just came in to look
at it.

(Another msg.)

Number > 15
Subject> SERIOUS?
Author > CHRONOS
Posted > TUE MAR 18  5:44:17 PM

Sherwood Forests were really being run by Feds? I’d like to know who…
they
let it get pretty far before they busted them then…

[chronos/KOTBC]

(Another msg.)

Number > 18
Subject> The forest
Viewer > WARE BANDIT            <Elite>
Posted > WED MAR 19  3:23:11 PM

Okay this might clear some things up between some people that might be
confused
on the subject.

Sherwood Forest …. Used to be run by High Tech. About 2-3 years ago.
Sherwood Forest //   The later Sherwood forest run by High tech. when
he moved.
Sherwood Forest ///  Ran by Creative Cracker, a good friend of High
tech.

and no they were not feds, they just got a little carried away with the
way
they were running thier boards by letting just about anyone access most
of the
phreak sections that they had on-line. The Treasury dept. finally
closed them
down along with cryton and some other un-heard of hack boards.

If you have any questions feel free to ask.. I was going to run thier
number 4
board, but shortly after I was offered the opurtunity they went
under…

*******************************************************************************

I don’t know where these msg’s are from, or who these people are. But
almost
everything said in them is wrong.

“I heard 2 guys were doing all the work, so they quit”. Whoever said
that has
obviously read the 1984 loserlist, because that is a verbatim quote
from it.
Not only is it wrong in slandering everyone from Apple Bandit, Hot Rod,
and
Wombat/Gonif, to Bioc Agent, Lord Digital and Paul Muad’Dib. But it’s
written
in a such a ridiculous fashion, that any points the author was trying
to make
are lost in the jumble (For those who care it was written by “The
Atom”).

Sherwood Forests (The last grand adventure).

The FIRST Sherwood Forest was started in 1979 by Magnetic Surfer. The
only
people who were on it back then, and still recognized would be Mr.
Xerox and
Lord Digital. Other members included Nickie Halflinger, Captain Crunch,
Napoleon Bonaparte, and many others, whose names are probably
meaningless to
the people around today.

There was a 20 page write up on “Hackers”, before it was in vogue to
write
about them (Before WarGames and the 414 busts), In a 1982 issue of
“California”
magazine. Which detailed the bust of Ron Austin, who was at the time of
arrest
22 years old and being tried for everything from credit card fraud, to
grand
theft. Also included in the article was a write up on Hacker bbs
systems he
was on and people he knew. The Sherwood Forest mentioned in that
article was
Magnetic Surfer’s, not the later ones.

Sherwood forest was run on a micromodem and 1 disk drive. There were no
Cat’s,
DOS was at 3.1, and Disk Drives were still a novelty. It went down in
1981 for
whatever reasons, and went back up as a public system with 1200 & a 46
mb hard
drive in 1983. Shortly thereafter it went private and became the
Knights of
Shadow Base bbs. During it’s final days in 1984, this was the FINAL
memberlist:

SYSTEM OPERATOR         <– Magnetic Surfer. TKOS member
PIT FIEND               <– Local Queens person
LORD DIGITAL            <– Name speaks for itself. Apple Mafia & TKOS
member
CRIMINAL ELEMENT        <– Local Queens person, semi notorious for
being a ass
STEPHEN FALKEN          <– aka: Jon Gleich of Earth News Central
THE SURGE               <– Unknown. Access from Lord Digital
BIG BROTHER             <– 617 phreak/pirate. Apple Mafia & TKOS
member
E.F. HUTTON             <– 312 Phreak/Hacker. TKOS member
THE KNIGHTS OF SHADOW   <– TKOS account
MR. XEROX               <– Name speaks for itself. TKOS founder
CAPTAIN AVATAR          <– aka: Skip Rooney
DISK DEMON              <– Local Queens person
GUEST ACCOUNT           <– A guest account
THE MAGNET              <– Apple Mafia co-founder
THE PROWLER             <– Canadian Phreak, NOT the 612 Prowler
BIOC AGENT 003          <– Name speaks for itself. TKOS member
QUASI MOTO              <– TKOS member. Ran PloverNet
PHONE FIEND             <– Local Queens person
TUC TUCBBS              <– Tuc. Name speaks for itself. TKOS member
PAUL MUAD’DIB           <– Name speaks for itself. TKOS member
HARDWARE HACKER         <– Local Queens person
TOM TONE                <– Brooklyn person
THE GODFATHER           <– Apple Mafia co-founder
PETER MCIVERS           <– 617 phreak/hacker
THE PHANTOM             <– Apple Mafia member
NICKIE HALFLINGER       <– Hacker, EEE, in his mid 30’s
LEX LUTHOR              <– 305 person. Nobody at this time, later
founded LOD
UNCLE JOE               <– Have no idea who this is
LESLIE KARASIC          <– Have no idea who this is
THE NECROMANCER         <– TKOS member
DR JIMMY MR JIM         <– TKOS member
THE WIZARD              <– Asshole from 713. Access from Quasi Moto
FRODO HOBBIT            <– Unknown, from 201. Access from Magnetic
Surfer
THE DJIN                <– Unknown, from 718. Access from Magnetic
Surfer
RICH DOUGAN             <– Unknown, from 718. Access from Magnetic
Surfer
APPLE CAT               <– Unknown, from 718. Access from The Phantom
NAPOLEON BONAPARTE      <– TKOS member. Ex of: Inner Circle. ex Sys of
SL
CHRISTOPHER BUNN        <– Unknown, from 718. Access from The Phantom
DR. DOOM                <– Have no idea who this is
WILD CAT                <– Have no idea who this is
THE DISKLAIMER          <– Have no idea who this is
MR IBM                  <– Have no idea who this is
DRAGON LADY             <– Ex girlfriend of Chesire Catalyst
GAP DRAGON              <– Have no idea who this is
THE MARK                <– Have no idea who this is
CABLE PAIR              <– Fed par excellance`
STOSH FIXER             <– Have no idea who this is
MILO PHONBIL            <– Sysop of Once & Future OSUNY
MR. GUCCI               <– Sysop of AT&T Phone Center
DR. NIBBLEMASTER        <– TKOS member
STAINLESS STEAL RAT     <– TKOS member

And that’s it. Reading the list you have to keep in mind that this was
right
after the Inner Circle folded, and almost a year before LOD even began.
So many
of the current “Big Names”, didn’t even own computers yet.

In 1983 a friend of their’s (The 212/718 people), called Creative
Cracker put
up a bbs called Sherwood Forest ][. For a while it had an ae line
simply known
as “Sherwood Forest” in 201, then in 1984 Sherwood Forest ]I[ went up,
run by
High Technology. The original co-sysops on SF ][ were High Tech & Jack
The
Ripper. Jack was dropped, High Tech became a full sysop, and the new
co-sysops
became: Tuc, Bioc & Big Brother.

SF ][ started on a disk ][ & a Rana ]I[ disk drive, Micromodem, and a
clock. It
went down for 2 weeks in 1984, then came back up with all new software,
20 megs
and 1000’s of files.

SF ]I[ went up with a disk ][ & a Rana ]I[, and that’s as big as it
ever got.
Creative Cracker was a full sysop. And the co-sysops were Sharp Razor,
X-Man,
and Wizard 414. co-sub-ops of maintenence (whatever that is), were:
Sherlock
Apple and Silicon Scorpion. All co-sysops and sub-ops were dropped
after about
2 months.

None of the boards except for Magnetic Surfer’s could be considered
really
impressive by todays standards. Impressive in terms of hardware that
is. This
is the time when just about the only hard drive was a corvus, whose
prices for
a 6 meg started at $2000 in that time. and a complete Apple-Cat/212
card/exp-
ansion module system, came to over $1000.

And finally the Apple Mafia, was NEVER the “Micro Mafia”, this was yet
another
group of losers cashing in on their group name.

*******************************************************************************

I could go on about what happens to all the people from SF, but that’s
not the
purpose of this file, so I’m not going to digress. There are many files
out
about many of the members (Lord Digital, Paul Muad’Dib, Mr. Xerox come
to mind)
already. And others have made themselves known through LOD as well
(Lex). What
this file is about is The Apple Mafia, so I’m not going to get into all
that.

Which brings me to the final part. The Sherwood Forest Busts….

I’m saying right now that I don’t know what happened, just offering the
facts
that I do know about it.

If (as is said), SF][ was indeed run by the FBI towards the end. Then
why did
they let Creative Cracker keep cracking software? It doesn’t seem
likely they
would have let him continue, did they just not know or what?

Now if they weren’t running SF][, then even more questions come to
mind. The
most important one is: why run a board if you truly don’t care? CC
never
looked at his board, never logged in, the news was updated once every 9
months
by BIOC.

What’s more, if it WAS a trap, then logically the other Apple Mafia
members had
to know about it. Or most of them. NONE of them EVER posted anything at
all.
With the exception of Silicon Scorpion & Sherlock Apple, who kept
posting new
wares.

It could be that they lost interest in piracy (As is true of Tuc, Lord
Digital,
The Phantom, Big Brother, in fact, almost all the members), BUT this
still does
not clear up why NONE of them EVER posted ANYWHERE, including the
phreak boards
or the elite subs. Now BIOC did post, but if you know BIOC, he always
left some
500 line exerpt he typed up from some magazine, or manual (Which is
actually
just about all he ever did, much like Lex), nothing that could get him
in any
kind of trouble.

These are the same people whose msg’s I’ve seen buffers of from
Sherwood Forest
(Magnetic Surfer’s), and World of Cryton, who were posting techniques,
systems,
and information, all over. But not ONE msg. from any of them on their
supposed
“home base”. Pretty weird….

The logical conclusion I draw from this is: They knew the board was
being
watched at the very least, and didn’t want to draw attention to
themselves.
In which case they left everyone else to get caught, which is in
keeping with
many of the peoples present attitudes. This is also the time during
which the
Apple Mafia members who were also in TKOS got a lot of heat from that
group
falling apart in a rather spectacular manner. With almost all of them
in danger
of being busted for grand theft.

While SF][ & ]I[ didn’t go down until summer of 1985, I would say the
Apple
Mafia died almost a year eairlier. I talked to Silicon Scorpion towards
the
end of 1984 and as he put it: “What group? I don’t even have anyones
number
anymore. How am I supposed to be part of a group whose members I can’t
even
find?” This refers to Creative Cracker whose voice number dissapeared,
and
who never answered his feedback, The Phantom, ditto. Big Brother,
ditto. Tuc,
ditto. Lord Digital, ditto + he stopped calling any boards. Data
Dragon, he’s
never home. Who’s that leave? not many.

In the cases of The Phantom, Lord Digital and Tuc, this is
understandable. They
were all undoubtedly living out paranoid fantasies of everything they’d
ever
done catching up with them, as it did with Mr. Xerox not too far in the
past.

But what happened to everyone else?

*******************************************************************************

The Apple Mafia is over. Maybe one day some of the members will regroup
just
for fun. It would be interesting. But some loser named Judge Dredd,
should go
crawl back where he came from. Or find another name for his lame excuse
of a
group.

*******************************************************************************

Here is the “flyer” heralding the regrouping of the Mafia in 1984.
Verbatim as
typed by The Godfather:

BRIEF HISTORY OF THE APPLE MAFIA.

FOUNDED IN 1980 BY THE GODFATHER AS
A JOKE.  REDONE IN 1981 AS A SEMI
SERIOUS GROUP.  KICKED SOME ASS IN
’82.  BLEW EVERYONE AWAY IN 83, AND
WILL DO MUCH BETTER IN 84.  SINCE
THE BEGINNING THE GROUP HAS DIED
OUT AND BEEN REBORN SEVERAL TIMES,
THIS TIME LETS KEEP IT GOING.  IS
CURRENTLY THE OLDEST ACTIVE GROUP,
NEXT (OF PEOPLE WHO WOULD STILL BE
AROUND) ARE THE WARE LORDS (’83 I
BEILIEVE) AND THE 1200 CLUB (’83
ALSO, I THINK).  THAT’S IT.

A FEW GENERAL IDEAS WE WISH TO PROMOTE:

WHEN YOU GET SOME NEW SOFTWARE CALL
UP AS MANY MAFIA MEMBERS AND GET IT
TO THEM FIRST.

GET IT POSTED UP ON THE BOARDS AS FAST
AS POSSIBLE, NOW WITH CATS, TIME IS
CRUTIAL.  BE SURE TO STICK THE MAFIA
AT THE END.

DON’T GET THE GROUP INTO FIGHTS, AND
TRY NOT TO BE AN ASSHOLE.

IT HELPS TO GIVE OUT SOFTWARE TO OTHERS
– WITH THE MOB BEHIND YOU, NO ONE
CAN STOP YOU.

KEEP IN TOUCH WITH OTHER MEMBERS, IT
SUCKS WHEN YOU LOSE CONTACT, IF YOU
NEED ANY HELP CATCHING UP, JUST ASK
SOMEONE… THEY SHOULD BE WILLING TO
HELP YOU CATCH UP.

NEW MEMBERSHIPS ARE DECEIDED BY ALL
OF THE MEMBERS, IF YOU KNOW OF SOMEONE
DECENT, TELL EVERYONE ELSE.

THATS ABOUT IT.

THE GODFATHER

1986.
The Apple Mafia Story
Red Ghost

*******************************************************************************
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— Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com> wrote:
Meeeeeeeeeesta Kroupa 😉

You are on Telemundo with Mash. Right at this very
moment 🙂

Didnt know either one of you spoke Spanish 😉

Heroin, ibogaine and cracked apple software from 25
years ago. No wonder i like Mindvox so much, I have
finally found the entrance to the Twilight Zone 🙂
🙂 Without drugs!

Love all of you!

Carla B

— Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com> wrote:
Patrick! Fuck the idiots on the lists, but more
important got any 0-day
old warez? 🙂

You were what about 10 or 11? Have you ever not been
in trouble and
causing problems? 🙂 🙂 🙂

Your still using a Apple too 🙂

Long live insanity!!!!!

Reading my history books it was Apple Mafia the
first pirate group for
any computer, Knights of Shadow, the first phone
phreak and hacker
group to start stealing everything and get arrested
and of course
Legion of Doom 🙂 🙂 🙂

History books 🙂

http://www.textfiles.com/bbs/MINDVOX
http://www.textfiles.com
http://www.phrack.org

.:vector:.

— Joshua Tinnin <krinklyfig@pacbell.net> wrote:
So … I recently installed a version of Applewin
on my Windows
partition to
relive some old memories of playing Ultima IV and
running Beagle Bros
one-liners on my Apple ][e, when I discovered I’d
forgotten many
ProDOS/DOS
3.3 commands, which lead me to the Apple section
of the textfiles.com

site,
which in turn lead to reading some of the hacker
docs in that
section,
and
lo and behold, I discovered this …

http://home.pacbell.net/jtinnin/am/amafiac.gif

… after finally making the connection that you
were /that/ Lord
Digital.
Holy jumpin jeebus … I’m not sure which cracked
games I had with
that
crack screen, but I do remember there were at
least a couple.

Life is fucking strange. I’ve been on this list
for, what? a few
years
now
and never made the connection. Anyway, just
remember you helped some
poor
shmuck living in Albuquerque, NM, with an Apple
][e but without a
modem,
relieve a little adolescent stress by making it
easier for him to get
a
few
games. Yes, your cracked games made it all the way
to NM, though from

what I
understand you weren’t a part of that for too
long, and I can’t find
any
screens saying you cracked a game. Even so, I used
to wonder who
those
guys
were, and thought, if only I could meet one of
them, or at least hang

out on
their BBS, if only I could get a modem for this
Apple …

And, now, look where I ended up, without even
knowing it. Fuckin
strange.

Thanks for the gamez, bro. Always meant to tell
you guys that, and
same
to
anyone else here I don’t yet know about. (Yeah, I
know, you didn’t
write the
games, but I could only afford to buy a few of
them with my
lawn-mowing
money …)

– jt

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – Send 10MB messages!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete – You start. We finish.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: [vox] Mr. Lord Digital on heroin ibogaine and apple piracy 😉
Date: July 6, 2004 at 7:07:20 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com, vox@mindvox.com
Cc: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: vox@mindvox.com

Meeeeeeeeeesta Kroupa 😉

You are on Telemundo with Mash. Right at this very
moment 🙂

Didnt know either one of you spoke Spanish 😉

Heroin, ibogaine and cracked apple software from 25
years ago. No wonder i like Mindvox so much, I have
finally found the entrance to the Twilight Zone 🙂
🙂 Without drugs!

Love all of you!

Carla B

— Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com> wrote:
Patrick! Fuck the idiots on the lists, but more
important got any 0-day
old warez? 🙂

You were what about 10 or 11? Have you ever not been
in trouble and
causing problems? 🙂 🙂 🙂

Your still using a Apple too 🙂

Long live insanity!!!!!

Reading my history books it was Apple Mafia the
first pirate group for
any computer, Knights of Shadow, the first phone
phreak and hacker
group to start stealing everything and get arrested
and of course
Legion of Doom 🙂 🙂 🙂

History books 🙂

http://www.textfiles.com/bbs/MINDVOX
http://www.textfiles.com
http://www.phrack.org

.:vector:.

— Joshua Tinnin <krinklyfig@pacbell.net> wrote:
So … I recently installed a version of Applewin
on my Windows
partition to
relive some old memories of playing Ultima IV and
running Beagle Bros
one-liners on my Apple ][e, when I discovered I’d
forgotten many
ProDOS/DOS
3.3 commands, which lead me to the Apple section
of the textfiles.com

site,
which in turn lead to reading some of the hacker
docs in that
section,
and
lo and behold, I discovered this …

http://home.pacbell.net/jtinnin/am/amafiac.gif

… after finally making the connection that you
were /that/ Lord
Digital.
Holy jumpin jeebus … I’m not sure which cracked
games I had with
that
crack screen, but I do remember there were at
least a couple.

Life is fucking strange. I’ve been on this list
for, what? a few
years
now
and never made the connection. Anyway, just
remember you helped some
poor
shmuck living in Albuquerque, NM, with an Apple
][e but without a
modem,
relieve a little adolescent stress by making it
easier for him to get
a
few
games. Yes, your cracked games made it all the way
to NM, though from

what I
understand you weren’t a part of that for too
long, and I can’t find
any
screens saying you cracked a game. Even so, I used
to wonder who
those
guys
were, and thought, if only I could meet one of
them, or at least hang

out on
their BBS, if only I could get a modem for this
Apple …

And, now, look where I ended up, without even
knowing it. Fuckin
strange.

Thanks for the gamez, bro. Always meant to tell
you guys that, and
same
to
anyone else here I don’t yet know about. (Yeah, I
know, you didn’t
write the
games, but I could only afford to buy a few of
them with my
lawn-mowing
money …)

– jt

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – Send 10MB messages!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: [vox] Meesta Kroupa … oh, *that* Lord Digital
Date: July 6, 2004 at 6:57:59 PM EDT
To: vox@mindvox.com
Cc: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Patrick! Fuck the idiots on the lists, but more important got any 0-day
old warez? 🙂

You were what about 10 or 11? Have you ever not been in trouble and
causing problems? 🙂 🙂 🙂

Your still using a Apple too 🙂

Long live insanity!!!!!

Reading my history books it was Apple Mafia the first pirate group for
any computer, Knights of Shadow, the first phone phreak and hacker
group to start stealing everything and get arrested and of course
Legion of Doom 🙂 🙂 🙂

History books 🙂

http://www.textfiles.com/bbs/MINDVOX
http://www.textfiles.com
http://www.phrack.org

.:vector:.

— Joshua Tinnin <krinklyfig@pacbell.net> wrote:
So … I recently installed a version of Applewin on my Windows
partition to
relive some old memories of playing Ultima IV and running Beagle Bros
one-liners on my Apple ][e, when I discovered I’d forgotten many
ProDOS/DOS
3.3 commands, which lead me to the Apple section of the textfiles.com

site,
which in turn lead to reading some of the hacker docs in that
section,
and
lo and behold, I discovered this …

http://home.pacbell.net/jtinnin/am/amafiac.gif

… after finally making the connection that you were /that/ Lord
Digital.
Holy jumpin jeebus … I’m not sure which cracked games I had with
that
crack screen, but I do remember there were at least a couple.

Life is fucking strange. I’ve been on this list for, what? a few
years
now
and never made the connection. Anyway, just remember you helped some
poor
shmuck living in Albuquerque, NM, with an Apple ][e but without a
modem,
relieve a little adolescent stress by making it easier for him to get
a
few
games. Yes, your cracked games made it all the way to NM, though from

what I
understand you weren’t a part of that for too long, and I can’t find
any
screens saying you cracked a game. Even so, I used to wonder who
those
guys
were, and thought, if only I could meet one of them, or at least hang

out on
their BBS, if only I could get a modem for this Apple …

And, now, look where I ended up, without even knowing it. Fuckin
strange.

Thanks for the gamez, bro. Always meant to tell you guys that, and
same
to
anyone else here I don’t yet know about. (Yeah, I know, you didn’t
write the
games, but I could only afford to buy a few of them with my
lawn-mowing
money …)

– jt

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – Send 10MB messages!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail  /]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Patrick K. Kroupa <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] List Information (Please Read … or Don’t)
Date: July 6, 2004 at 6:38:15 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com, vox@mindvox.com, drugwar@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Please note: MANY of you are signed up to various lists which are hosted here, using SomeName.  You use POP or IMAP to grab your email from 15 different accounts, and then use SomeOtherAccount to post messages, or cross-post to a variety of lists.

*Attention DrugWar List* Individuals on DrugWar Most Especially have a habit of doing this.  And usually they’re the people who are NOT sending junk, but rather something interesting which is highly pertinent to the conversation(s) taking place.

i.e., Someone cross-posts to drugwar@mindvox.com, @ssdp.org, @drugsense.org, @mapinc.org, @drcnet.org, etc.

*IF* You are SUBSCRIBED to MindVox, using THE ACCOUNT NAME YOU ARE POSTING FROM.  Then “listName@mindvox.com” *MUST* appear in the, To: or Cc: line.

*IF* You are signed up USING THAT ACCOUNT NAME, AND email it to @mindvox.com in the To: or Cc: line.  ***IT WILL WORK JUST FINE***

***PLEASE Pay Attention to THIS PART*** If you are signed up to various list(s) using WhateverName.  And then reply to messages, using a DIFFERENT ACCOUNT.

You *NEED TO* obtain permission for THAT NAME to post to the lists.

You can do this, by sending email to (for instance):

ibogaine-allow-subscribe@mindvox.com
(or)
drugwar-allow-subscribe@mindvox.com
vox-allow-subscribe@mindvox.com

Etcetera…

What this will do is ADD THAT NAME to the “Account is Allowed to Post” list.  It WILL NOT send MORE COPIES of the list, to that account.  You can continue reading the lists from wherever you want.

All that you are doing is ADDING THAT NAME to the “Allow” file.

For instance, I wanna receive lists at: digital@wiretap.com, get system logs and error messages sent to: digital@mindvox.com, but continue replying to all my mail using: digital@phantom.com … even though the address digital@phantom.com isn’t actually signed up to ANY list.

***WHAT WILL NO LONGER WORK*** Is just sending some kind of content to lists, where the ACCOUNT YOU ARE POSTING FROM is *NOT* subscribed.

In the past, I’d try to cruise through these and release the pertinent messages, while letting the junk mail queue self-destruct.

I can no longer do this.  The volume of mail and people signed onto the lists is just way too fucking high at this point.

If individual moderators want to continue doing this … it’s all-good and entirely up to them.  Since — as of right now — the ONLY person moderating their own list is Preston, with DrugWar … He haz the power, and it’s all up to him.

In absolute and final conclusion: I don’t care if you spend your whole life in an alTered StaTe — with or without molecular assistance.  That’s no excuse for being an idiot…  But, I mean that in a kind, nurturing, loving and encouraging way.

Thanks,

Patrick

/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] respond immediately please
Date: July 6, 2004 at 4:54:27 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Done! Hope it helps!
Callie

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW
Date: July 6, 2004 at 4:25:32 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

My idea about  addiction is that it comes from “not getting breast fed By
mom after birth”.
That is for a start, then the whole family & environmental situation,
Like child vaccine and other confusing things we get from adults as kids.
Looking for a fix is looking for emotional satisfaction, just like a baby
Who needs his mom, comfort and warmth. And that has nothing to do with
logical mind control but illogical emotional need.
I’m not a great researcher in this field and this is only an Idea.

That seems like a logical theory.

I’m not sure what my breast-feeding was like, but I do have a very strong
oral fixation.. one of the main reasons I find it so difficult to quit
smoking; i feel as though i need to have something in my mouth, a
cigarette, a bowl, or food…

your theory also reminds me somewhat of Eric Taub’s theory on the etiology
of addiction, that much addiction results from an unstable or absent
bonding with the individual’s parent of the same sex (rather than the
mother). It’s been a while since I read his stuff, but it was something
along the same lines as what you’re saying… that the individual takes
drugs to fill a hole left by unfulfilling parenting…

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW
Date: July 6, 2004 at 4:14:26 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“i think, for me, it’s the lack of control that really makes me believe
that addiction is a mental illness. i think a person with a healthy mind
should be able to stop doing something if they want to. it took me well
over a year of wanting to stop shooting junk before i actually did; that
doesn’t strike me as particularly sane. i’d like to not smoke cigarettes
also, but of course, i’m about to go have one =)

take care

jon

My idea about  addiction is that it comes from “not getting breast fed By
mom after birth”.
That is for a start, then the whole family & environmental situation,
Like child vaccine and other confusing things we get from adults as kids.
Looking for a fix is looking for emotional satisfaction, just like a baby
Who needs his mom, comfort and warmth. And that has nothing to do with
logical mind control but illogical emotional need.
I’m not a great researcher in this field and this is only an Idea.

Sara

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] unsubscribe?
Date: July 6, 2004 at 2:18:54 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Tue, Jul 06, 2004 at 02:08:44PM -0400], [Marko] wrote:

| I’m quite sure that your monitor is less than 17″
|
| You prolly see a thin blue line between the blue MindVox logo on top of
| the page and big MindVox Chaos logo in the middle; this line is in fact a
| navbar (you could realise this if your monitor was bigger; or, you can
| realise this by placing cursor on it). Instructions are hidden in this
| blue line. Somewhere.
|
| I’m sure Patrick will fix this AnyMinuteNow, or even sooner, so people
| with smaller will be able to unsubscribe by themselves.

Look, show sum initiative and go boost a 20″ monitor; whut the hell is
wrong wid’ youz?

While you’re at it, steal broadband someplace, it’ll make you happier.

In other words: yeah I know.  It has DRIFTED UP to make the Top 25 list of
Things To Do in the next 5 minutes.  It’ll be EVEN BETTER than perfect
inna few daze.

In the interim, to load the list commands:

http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html

Patrick

From: Marko <marko@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] unsubscribe?
Date: July 6, 2004 at 2:08:44 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m quite sure that your monitor is less than 17″

You prolly see a thin blue line between the blue MindVox logo on top of
the page and big MindVox Chaos logo in the middle; this line is in fact a
navbar (you could realise this if your monitor was bigger; or, you can
realise this by placing cursor on it). Instructions are hidden in this
blue line. Somewhere.

I’m sure Patrick will fix this AnyMinuteNow, or even sooner, so people
with smaller will be able to unsubscribe by themselves.

;-))

Marko

On Tue, 6 Jul 2004,  wrote:

How do I unsubscribe? I click the link that says ‘further information and list commands’ but there is nothing there but some graphics.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Marko <marko@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW
Date: July 6, 2004 at 1:56:12 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston,

it’s not only drug users, EVERYBODY is sick! There is a model of a
perfectly healthy human being, and every deviation from this perfection is
called a “disease”. And it has a nice latin name.

If you cough -> you have a disease. If you don’t see colours as everybody
else does (should!) -> you have a disease. If you hear ringing -> you have
a disease (although don Juan stated that ringing in your ears means that
you’re ready to be pulled… or something)

I guess that you (and not just you) have at least 5 diseases you don’t
even know about! Addiction is that “Mysterious Disease” 🙂

Did it ever occured to you that people with “disease” or several of them
are easier to manipulate??

Prohibition is … huhm … the way our Dear Govenments take care of us.
Something that is bad for you is prohibited. I guess… Unless it turns
out that it’s really good for you… or that Our Dear Governments will
profit from it –> as it happened with alcohol prohibition last century in
US of A, as it happens with tobacco and thousands of other chemicals
nowdays ;-))

Marko

On Tue, 6 Jul 2004, Preston Peet wrote:

Actually, one more time-
Not only do I not buy the whole “druggies are sick” paradigm, I also
think it a genuine crime to continue to treat druggies as simply sick
people, because so long as people continue to do so, the druggies will
continue to feel so, instead of feeling like human beings like everyone
else, in need of love, contact and respect.
We tend to ostracize, alienate and quarantine sickies, no?
I don’t want pity and compassion because I do drugs- I want respect and
love because I’m a human being.
SOME people are in a place whereby they are hurting themselves through
their drug abuse, and in many of those cases, I do actually believe that
there is something psychological going on, but not a disease.
Did I say that already?
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Marko” <marko@mindvox.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 7:40 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW

World Health Organization (WHO) classifies addiction as disease. So, it’s
classified as such in every UN member country… or at least it should be.

Marko

On Mon, 5 Jul 2004, jon f. wrote:

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3
seconds….

Yes, unfortunately yer right in that to feed that disease I must face
the
wrath of a puritanical society determined to put me in my place for
daring
want to use the substances that make me feel most human- human I
write, at
least when not being chased through the blood and mud of a life lived
as a
target of prohibitionist maniacs.
Peace,
Preston

i dunno man, i think calling it a disease, or probably more
appropriately
a disorder, helps to break down the purtianical madness.

if it’s a medical issue (and i think it is), then nobody has any
business
chastising you or punishing you for being an addict. it’s not a “moral
failure”, it’s a health problem.

and, being a health problem, it is just as despicable for the
prohibitionists to attack addicts as it would be to attack someone with
cancer or whatnot.

i think the key to improving life for addicts in this country is to get
people to realise that addiction needs to be treated like any other
health
issue; that is, objectively and compassionately.

jon

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From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW
Date: July 6, 2004 at 1:56:21 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

World Health Organization (WHO) classifies addiction as disease. So, it’s
classified as such in every UN member country… or at least it should be.

I don’t believe addiction is an illness because the WHO says so.. I
believe it’s an illness because I’ve experienced it myself.

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From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] 4. July
Date: July 6, 2004 at 1:51:40 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

To everybody in here, celebrating 4th of July:

a survey in France showed that 78% of French (you remember them? They
gave you the Statue of Liberty, and Congress Fries is named by them)
would vote for John Kerry.

So, Merry 4th of July, and good luck!

so if they’re now supposed to be called freedom fries now, how come it’s
not freedom vanilla?

=)

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From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW
Date: July 6, 2004 at 12:19:46 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You are right Jon, I agree that in some cases it does indeed make it
easier
for some people to possibly accept that I might want to continue getting
high/straight no matter how hard “they” make it for me to do so, and how
many penalties are piled on to deter me and the rest of my kind. If I’m
sick
that of course explains why I won’t break and accept their right and I’m
crazy for wanting to continue getting high.
Peace,
Preston
(I think I’m sounding short, and I don’t mean to, honest. I do see what
you
are saying and do think you correct in that it helps some people be
“nicer”
but I don’t have to accept it as “right” or decent to call myself sick for
wanting, maybe even needing to continue getting high, in some fashion or
other all my life.
Peace again and still.
Preston)

eheh… it’s cool man, i don’t think you’re sounding bitchy or anything =)

although it’s unfortunately often not the case in practice, the medical
model distinguishes between drug use, abuse, and addiction. for someone to
be considered addicted, that is, having symptoms of the mental disorder
known as addiction or dependence, the person’s drug abuse has to meet
certain criteria; and it has to cause significant impairment in the
individual’s social, occupational, and/or personal functioning.

if someone is using drugs and is not having significant difficulties in
these areas of life, it is incorrect to diagnose the person with a
chemical dependency disorder. in psychology, those measures are what
determines whether a person is “sick” or not. (again, in theory anyway…
particularly in drug treatment, caregivers tend to ignore reality…)

and whether the person is sick or not, the only time you oughn’t have the
right to deny treatment is if you are an acute danger to yourself or
others (that is, if you are in immediate danger of killing someone or
whatnot). otherwise, everyone has the god given right to refuse treatment,
be they drug addicts, schizophrenics, or christian scientists.

i think, for me, it’s the lack of control that really makes me believe
that addiction is a mental illness. i think a person with a healthy mind
should be able to stop doing something if they want to. it took me well
over a year of wanting to stop shooting junk before i actually did; that
doesn’t strike me as particularly sane. i’d like to not smoke cigarettes
also, but of course, i’m about to go have one =)

take care

jon

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From: “” <scottmarkwell@toast.net>
Subject: [ibogaine] unsubscribe?
Date: July 6, 2004 at 11:16:41 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

How do I unsubscribe? I click the link that says ‘further information and list commands’ but there is nothing there but some graphics.

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From: “Doug Northrup” <doug@northrup.us>
Subject: [ibogaine] Heart Rates
Date: July 6, 2004 at 9:55:55 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey folks,

I haven’t read much in this discussion with regard to heart rate.  I’m curious to see if any of you who have taken Ibogaine have a slow resting heart rate.  As I am typing this I checked mine and it is 54 beats per minute.  I am not an athlete or in great shape (I don’t exercise).

Anyone out there able to tell me what their experience was using Ibogaine with a low resting heart rate?

-peace, Doug

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW
Date: July 6, 2004 at 8:58:04 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Actually, one more time-
Not only do I not buy the whole “druggies are sick” paradigm, I also
think it a genuine crime to continue to treat druggies as simply sick
people, because so long as people continue to do so, the druggies will
continue to feel so, instead of feeling like human beings like everyone
else, in need of love, contact and respect.
We tend to ostracize, alienate and quarantine sickies, no?
I don’t want pity and compassion because I do drugs- I want respect and
love because I’m a human being.
SOME people are in a place whereby they are hurting themselves through
their drug abuse, and in many of those cases, I do actually believe that
there is something psychological going on, but not a disease.
Did I say that already?
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Marko” <marko@mindvox.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 7:40 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW

World Health Organization (WHO) classifies addiction as disease. So, it’s
classified as such in every UN member country… or at least it should be.

Marko

On Mon, 5 Jul 2004, jon f. wrote:

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3
seconds….

Yes, unfortunately yer right in that to feed that disease I must face
the
wrath of a puritanical society determined to put me in my place for
daring
want to use the substances that make me feel most human- human I
write, at
least when not being chased through the blood and mud of a life lived
as a
target of prohibitionist maniacs.
Peace,
Preston

i dunno man, i think calling it a disease, or probably more
appropriately
a disorder, helps to break down the purtianical madness.

if it’s a medical issue (and i think it is), then nobody has any
business
chastising you or punishing you for being an addict. it’s not a “moral
failure”, it’s a health problem.

and, being a health problem, it is just as despicable for the
prohibitionists to attack addicts as it would be to attack someone with
cancer or whatnot.

i think the key to improving life for addicts in this country is to get
people to realise that addiction needs to be treated like any other
health
issue; that is, objectively and compassionately.

jon

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW
Date: July 6, 2004 at 8:52:00 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

World Health Organization (WHO) classifies addiction as disease. So, it’s
classified as such in every UN member country… or at least it should be.

Marko<

I agree- prohibition is a disease. But I guess that’s not what you’re
implying here is it Marko?
;-))
But I myself still do not buy the “I’m sick because I want to do drugs- even
addictive drugs,” even if the WHO tells me I’m a sicko. Every UN member
country (just about) supports full-on prohibition too, or even just some
parts of the ultra-destructive prohibition, but that don’t make it right.
Sorry. I am NOT sick because I want, or even need at times, opiates. I do
think it very sad that I am repeatedly made to feel, or at least some
repeatedly try to make me feel, that I have to spend my whole life trying to
figure out how NOT to use so as to stay out of trouble, instead of simply
using and getting on with my life. Some say pot is addictive too- does that
make it true? Millions upon millions all over the whole entire globe say god
is going to send me to hell if I don’t accept jesus christ as my personal
savior too- but I don’t believe them either.
Peace and much respect,
Preston
(I guess I don’t need to say it anymore, as I’ve made my own, again, MY OWN,
views on this matter quite clear. I don’t begrude others their views though,
as long as they don’t wind up hurting me or others for that matter.)

—– Original Message —–
From: “Marko” <marko@mindvox.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 7:40 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW

World Health Organization (WHO) classifies addiction as disease. So, it’s
classified as such in every UN member country… or at least it should be.

Marko

On Mon, 5 Jul 2004, jon f. wrote:

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3
seconds….

Yes, unfortunately yer right in that to feed that disease I must face
the
wrath of a puritanical society determined to put me in my place for
daring
want to use the substances that make me feel most human- human I
write, at
least when not being chased through the blood and mud of a life lived
as a
target of prohibitionist maniacs.
Peace,
Preston

i dunno man, i think calling it a disease, or probably more
appropriately
a disorder, helps to break down the purtianical madness.

if it’s a medical issue (and i think it is), then nobody has any
business
chastising you or punishing you for being an addict. it’s not a “moral
failure”, it’s a health problem.

and, being a health problem, it is just as despicable for the
prohibitionists to attack addicts as it would be to attack someone with
cancer or whatnot.

i think the key to improving life for addicts in this country is to get
people to realise that addiction needs to be treated like any other
health
issue; that is, objectively and compassionately.

jon

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From: Marko <marko@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW
Date: July 6, 2004 at 7:40:41 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

World Health Organization (WHO) classifies addiction as disease. So, it’s
classified as such in every UN member country… or at least it should be.

Marko

On Mon, 5 Jul 2004, jon f. wrote:

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

Yes, unfortunately yer right in that to feed that disease I must face the
wrath of a puritanical society determined to put me in my place for daring
want to use the substances that make me feel most human- human I write, at
least when not being chased through the blood and mud of a life lived as a
target of prohibitionist maniacs.
Peace,
Preston

i dunno man, i think calling it a disease, or probably more appropriately
a disorder, helps to break down the purtianical madness.

if it’s a medical issue (and i think it is), then nobody has any business
chastising you or punishing you for being an addict. it’s not a “moral
failure”, it’s a health problem.

and, being a health problem, it is just as despicable for the
prohibitionists to attack addicts as it would be to attack someone with
cancer or whatnot.

i think the key to improving life for addicts in this country is to get
people to realise that addiction needs to be treated like any other health
issue; that is, objectively and compassionately.

jon

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?
Date: July 6, 2004 at 6:48:35 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Luke, man, are you doing any groups yet? I recall from our mails before that
you have a lot of energy and I had the strong feeling that you need to put
it out more. When someone is using drugs or alcohol or whatever to sit on
feelings, then when they stop doing that there will inevitably be a lot more
energy available in the body. And you have to do something with it otherwise
it’ll just cause problems. I didn’t realize you were in Ireland before. Mail
me offlist and I’ll give you my number. If you can get over to England every
now and again there are some great courses available over here which can
help take you through stuff.

It is unrealistic to expect a couple of doses of ibogaine to take your
problems away. It’s just the beginning.

Be nice to hear from you

Nick

—– Original Message —–
From: “Luke Christoffersen” <lchristoffersen@hotmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 9:37 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?

HI Callie
Hi Luke, Ringing in the ears, called tinnitis by physicians, is  usually
a
side effect of medication. What antidepressant are you taking and when
did
you
start it? Do you take aspirin or BC powders for your headache? Or maybe
Darvon Compound?
The reason I ask is because ringing in ears is a common side  effect of
aspirin.
Howard will know if Ibogaine ever has caused ringing in ears  but I bet
it
is
something else you are taking.

I was taking Neurophen for the headache.  It’s the strongest over the
counter painkiller
I can get in Ireland.  It’s something similar to asprin with coedine.  It
didn’t do much but a
few drinks got rid of the headache.  I’ve been on the antidepressants
before
ibogaine and
never really had the ears ringing much.

I feel stressed like you when I am trying to not use and want  or need to
use
really bad. I don’t know if you have been on the list long but we  were
discussing replacing using with more healthy changes not too long  ago.
That is one of my fears about getting totally clean. I am so  afraid I
will
never have the insight I need in order to not use. I am afraid if  I quit
using
opiates and do nothing else I will relapse. If just quitting using  would
fix
me I would’ve been fixed in the past.
Hope this post makes sense to you!

I hear you.  I think it takes some time to totally clean up your life. I
did
severl ibo session and started slowly cutting down over 2 years.  I cut
out
drinking spirits after a few months and then seemed to naturally have less
desire to drink alot.  I think, at least for me, that I need to be
completely clean before I’ll get the insight to straighten out my life in
that sense ibogaine has helped alot. It is hard thought and I still feel
like going out on bender sometimes when I just get tired of feeling crap.

Luke

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From: “Luke Christoffersen” <lchristoffersen@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Harm
Date: July 6, 2004 at 5:04:44 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

HI All,
I’m not sure if this is off the topic being discused but I recall the guy I did my first ibo treatment with saying that ibogaine was less successfull with alcoholics than opiate addicts. I don’t
know if this statement is true.  Perhaps alcohol causes more memory imairpment reducing the effectiveness and clarity of ibogaine insights.
I have no experience of opiates.  Do they cause memory/cognitave problems?
Thanks
Luke

Good Morning! There is no documented organic damage from the use of opiates.
You are 100% correct in stating that the damage noted in people who use is
from the lifestyle of copping. Englans did an experiment that the show 60 minutes
aired examining this. Certain people were given heroin and cocaine. Now as
far as I know, cocaine does cause organic damage but in this study, it did not.

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From: “Luke Christoffersen” <lchristoffersen@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?
Date: July 6, 2004 at 4:56:10 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Julian,
I’ve had several doses over the past 2 years. Actually the first few were in the first 6 months of that time.  I actually would like to do another dose but I was actually hoping to put it off for some time to allow my mind to clear up as much as possible after all the years of boozing.

Thanks
Luke

Luke, I have not experienced Iboga/Ibogaine yet so I am not an empirical
expert and my studies on it are also limited, but would a 2nd dose be in order?
Maybe Howard could tell you.
Julian

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From: “Luke Christoffersen” <lchristoffersen@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?
Date: July 6, 2004 at 4:50:33 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Jim,
I was getting the ringing in my ears before the antidepressants.  They do seem to help me with the exception of some side effects like being a bit drowsy.  I tried asking the doc for xanax but he didn’t want to prescribe them.

I just bought a drug called Picamilon off the net.  It’s a russian drug/nootropic that’s used for people recovering from alcohol. Supposedly it has the double effect of increasing cerebral blood flow and also has a anti anxiety effect similar to xanx without being adictive.  I thougth it might help.  If not it will just gather dust.  Has anyone heard of it??

Luke

Were you having stress and ringing of the ears before the antidepressants?  I tried them all and they did not help me.  In fact they made matters worse.  I know some people who it make things a whole lot better.  Thing is they take a long time to kick in and docs hand them out like candy.  They will give them to you by the handful but trying getting a Valum or Xanax.  I have been taking Valium for over 25 years off and on.  Never had a problem.  Check with your doc and he may change your meds.  After all there are so many antidepressants to choose from.  If it really bothers you say something.  They gave me very bad dreams and bad hallcinations.  But everyone is different but mention it at least.

CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 7/5/2004 12:39:20 PM Central Daylight Time, lchristoffersen@hotmail.com writes:
This is really doing my head in.  My life isn’t that stressfull at all
but I’m feeling really stressed.  I’m taking antidepressants which help a
little but not much and the tension in my neck and head is making work very
difficult and making me a little forgetfull and it’s been hard to keep up
with everything.

Hi Luke, Ringing in the ears, called tinnitis by physicians, is usually a side effect of medication. What antidepressant are you taking and when did you start it? Do you take aspirin or BC powders for your headache? Or maybe Darvon Compound?
The reason I ask is because ringing in ears is a common side effect of aspirin.
Howard will know if Ibogaine ever has caused ringing in ears but I bet it is something else you are taking.
I feel stressed like you when I am trying to not use and want or need to use really bad. I don’t know if you have been on the list long but we were discussing replacing using with more healthy changes not too long ago.
That is one of my fears about getting totally clean. I am so afraid I will never have the insight I need in order to not use. I am afraid if I quit using opiates and do nothing else I will relapse. If just quitting using would fix me I would’ve been fixed in the past.
Hope this post makes sense to you!
Read up about your current medications to see if tinnitis is side effect. Like I said it is fancy word for ringing in ears.
Callie

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Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete – You start. We finish.

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From: “Luke Christoffersen” <lchristoffersen@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?
Date: July 6, 2004 at 4:37:51 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

HI Callie
Hi Luke, Ringing in the ears, called tinnitis by physicians, is  usually a
side effect of medication. What antidepressant are you taking and when  did you
start it? Do you take aspirin or BC powders for your headache? Or maybe
Darvon Compound?
The reason I ask is because ringing in ears is a common side  effect of
aspirin.
Howard will know if Ibogaine ever has caused ringing in ears  but I bet it is
something else you are taking.

I was taking Neurophen for the headache.  It’s the strongest over the counter painkiller
I can get in Ireland.  It’s something similar to asprin with coedine.  It didn’t do much but a
few drinks got rid of the headache.  I’ve been on the antidepressants before ibogaine and
never really had the ears ringing much.

I feel stressed like you when I am trying to not use and want  or need to use
really bad. I don’t know if you have been on the list long but we  were
discussing replacing using with more healthy changes not too long  ago.
That is one of my fears about getting totally clean. I am so  afraid I will
never have the insight I need in order to not use. I am afraid if  I quit using
opiates and do nothing else I will relapse. If just quitting using  would fix
me I would’ve been fixed in the past.
Hope this post makes sense to you!

I hear you.  I think it takes some time to totally clean up your life. I did severl ibo session and started slowly cutting down over 2 years.  I cut out drinking spirits after a few months and then seemed to naturally have less desire to drink alot.  I think, at least for me, that I need to be completely clean before I’ll get the insight to straighten out my life in that sense ibogaine has helped alot. It is hard thought and I still feel like going out on bender sometimes when I just get tired of feeling crap.

Luke

_________________________________________________________________
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From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?
Date: July 6, 2004 at 1:53:11 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Luke, I have not experienced Iboga/Ibogaine yet so I am not an empirical expert and my studies on it are also limited, but would a 2nd dose be in order? Maybe Howard could tell you.
Julian

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW
Date: July 6, 2004 at 1:46:03 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Callie, Jim is right about forgiveness. You have forgiven me which I am extremely grateful for. When I read the letters, I sort of laugh, I mean they are so stupid, so out of it, so “not me” that it is funny but I did feel terribly guilty. The fact that you spoke with me after the fact was a big load off my back. The fact that you forgave me was icing on the cake. I believe the same thing about your sons. If they are visiting you, then they want you in their life and probably do understand your situation. If you desire, one day you can talk with them about it. You are a great person Callie, do not minimize that! Jim thank you for your words, but I do have to correct you on one thing. I’m a guy, not a girl. It’s not a big deal on this site but if you ever asked me out on a date, it would be a huge deal, right?

Have a great day,
Julian

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Harm
Date: July 6, 2004 at 1:32:13 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Good Morning! There is no documented organic damage from the use of opiates. You are 100% correct in stating that the damage noted in people who use is from the lifestyle of copping. Englans did an experiment that the show 60 minutes aired examining this. Certain people were given heroin and cocaine. Now as far as I know, cocaine does cause organic damage but in this study, it did not.

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] How Effective is it?
Date: July 6, 2004 at 1:28:56 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You are correct in my case. I was given neurontin for my pain and it did nothing. I don’t remember my dose but I took two tablets twice a day.

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW ::: The dis-ease of christianity
Date: July 6, 2004 at 12:13:21 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Monday, July 5, 2004, at 11:14 AM, Jim Hadey wrote:

Hi Dave:

>>If you are christian and find this offensive… well… I can’t say I’m
sorry. <<

Why should you say your sorry, all you did was tell the truth, not to mention the fact that you wern’t even born then?

exactly, which is why i can’t say i’m sorry.

I did not really want to bring in religion or even spiritulity which takes in everything, to this form. I’ll leave that for the TV guys fighting for money and power. I believe everyone must make their own relationship with God or whatever name you want to use.   We all know about the cowboys and Indians.  See, they had what they called manifest destiny which means the Lord wants you to take the land from the Indians for they are heathens, in fact it is you duty.  Now a guy comes over here and needs some land and wants it what’s he do.  Goes to a preacher who tells him what he wants to hear.

Then you have what the conquistadors did to the Aztec Indians, just as you say they robbed, raped and killed them and said by the way your religion is wrong too, you should be like us.

yep, from the crusades to the conquistadores, manifest destiny to the overthrow of Hawaii… not to mention the missionary work in Africa and all other locations, the locals were basically fucked. I forgot to tie in the nasty business of slavery, which is also older than christianity, but I think the point is, destroy indigenous culture and you breed addiction, sooner or later.

>>>I believe it also has to do with the makeup of the brain
chemistry. I think it is really a spiritual dis-connection. <<<

Yea, and maybe both.  I know that narcotics help stop depression.  While others nod out after using, like I used to do, I get a lift, more energy, kind of like a hit of speed.  I have noticed this from others who have been using for a long time rather that those who just started.

absolutely, I have had the same experience. I used to be able to nod on the tiniest amount, then came the days of being wired, then came the days of just barely getting well, couldn’t get enough in me no matter how much I shot… then after a period of abstinence getting wired again, and watching people around me fall out from a measly little cotton. Oh that used to piss me off to no end, because basically I just wanted to turn it all off and drift. Then I’d find myself cleaning the bathroom after a good lick. Doh!

I would like be with the Indians sometime and experience some of their ceremonies.  For unlike many Christians I also believe that it is spiritual in nature, I also believe in reincarnation.  Yea, not your typical Christian but that’s what I believe.  I will never argue about religion or politics for you will not change the others mind.  But that’s just me, we all have to make our own relationship with the Lord even if the relationship is none.

I had the opportunity to sit in a native american church ceremony and eat peyote once, it was a very uplifting and fulfilling experience… that was before the shit really hit the fan with Heroin and coke/crack in my life. It was organized and run by a group of indians who felt the time was right to let non-indians partake of the “grandfather medicine”. There were people of all walks of life in attendance, including a baptist preacher who experienced what he called “Gods great cosmic pinball machine come to life”. It was a very special ceremony focused on blessing of the ancestors. I think we spent 16 hours in that TeePee, with only 1 break to piss at the 1/2 way mark – drumming and chanting and sitting cross-legged the entire time. We celebrated in the morning with dried venicin, fresh corn and wild berries… and coke-a-cola. They loved their soda!

I was invited back again during my dark days, little did they know I was strung to the bone. I fixed a gigantic speedball about an hour before entering the teepee… and let me say this: I’ve never had the pleasure of being revived with Narcan, but I’d say from all accounts described to me, Peyote does about the same thing. It must have been competing for the same synapses because I became INSTANTLY as sick as I’d ever been, green fluids pouring forth in unstopable volumes from my main 2 orifices, the most chilling cramps and utter and complete despair. I don’t even know how I survived that one… I was ushered out of the ceremony and lay writhing on the cold wet november northern california ground all night, and drove myself home the next morning in torrential downpours, cross-eyed and stopping every 20 minutes or so at gas stations to add more air to my flat tire.

ok, enuff outta me.

_.dh

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW
Date: July 5, 2004 at 11:00:57 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I dunno man, i think calling it a disease, or probably more appropriately
a disorder, helps to break down the purtianical madness.<

You are right Jon, I agree that in some cases it does indeed make it easier
for some people to possibly accept that I might want to continue getting
high/straight no matter how hard “they” make it for me to do so, and how
many penalties are piled on to deter me and the rest of my kind. If I’m sick
that of course explains why I won’t break and accept their right and I’m
crazy for wanting to continue getting high.
Peace,
Preston
(I think I’m sounding short, and I don’t mean to, honest. I do see what you
are saying and do think you correct in that it helps some people be “nicer”
but I don’t have to accept it as “right” or decent to call myself sick for
wanting, maybe even needing to continue getting high, in some fashion or
other all my life.
Peace again and still.
Preston)

—– Original Message —–
From: “jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, July 05, 2004 4:59 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

Yes, unfortunately yer right in that to feed that disease I must face
the
wrath of a puritanical society determined to put me in my place for
daring
want to use the substances that make me feel most human- human I write,
at
least when not being chased through the blood and mud of a life lived as
a
target of prohibitionist maniacs.
Peace,
Preston

i dunno man, i think calling it a disease, or probably more appropriately
a disorder, helps to break down the purtianical madness.

if it’s a medical issue (and i think it is), then nobody has any business
chastising you or punishing you for being an addict. it’s not a “moral
failure”, it’s a health problem.

and, being a health problem, it is just as despicable for the
prohibitionists to attack addicts as it would be to attack someone with
cancer or whatnot.

i think the key to improving life for addicts in this country is to get
people to realise that addiction needs to be treated like any other health
issue; that is, objectively and compassionately.

jon

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<)[%]

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] respond immediately please
Date: July 5, 2004 at 10:34:10 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

ORIGINAL MESSAGE FOLLOWS:

The Marijuana Policy Project needs one minute of your time. Would you
please take a quick action that could have a huge impact on medical
marijuana policy nationwide?

Please visit http://www.mpp.org/DD/action.html today and
use MPP’s easy online system to urge your U.S. representative to
support the Hinchey-Rohrabacher amendment when it comes to the House
floor for a vote on Wednesday, July 7.

If you’re going to send only one e-mail this year to stop the war on
medical marijuana users, now is the time.

The Hinchey-Rohrabacher amendment, introduced by U.S. Reps. Maurice
Hinchey (D-NY) and Dana Rohrabacher (R-CA), would bar the U.S. Justice
Department from raiding, arresting, or prosecuting patients who use
medical marijuana in compliance with state law.

Over the past three years, the federal government has boldly and
unremorsefully raided seriously ill patients (and their caregivers)
who are using medical marijuana in compliance with their states’ laws.
You can help bring an end to these DEA raids — and subsequent arrests
and prosecutions — by visiting
http://www.mpp.org/DD/action.html to urge your U.S.
representative to support the Hinchey-Rohrabacher amendment when it
comes to the House floor for a vote this week.

This is only the second time in history that the U.S. House of
Representatives will vote on this amendment. In July 2003,
congressional observers were surprised when the amendment garnered 152
votes, falling short of passing by only 66 votes.

This year, we can win!

Since last year, there have been numerous positive developments
related to medical marijuana: Vermont became the ninth state to
protect medical marijuana patients from arrest and prison; groups such
as the United Methodist Church, the American Nurses Association, and
both the Medical Society of the State of New York and the Rhode Island
Medical Society have endorsed MPP’s medical marijuana bills; and
Federal courts have granted injunctions and issued rulings
undercutting the federal government’s war on medical marijuana.

With this momentum behind us, we are within reach of winning a medical
marijuana victory in the U.S. House of Representatives … which would
be our first victory ever in Congress.

How can we win?

To win, we need you to visit
http://www.mpp.org/DD/action.html right now, to urge your
U.S. representative to vote for the Hinchey-Rohrabacher amendment
during consideration of the federal spending bill that funds the U.S.
Justice Department (and the DEA). You must let your U.S.
representative know that this vote is important to you.

It only takes one minute.

Please visit http://www.mpp.org/DD/action.html and enter your zip code
(which will identify your U.S. representative). A prewritten message
will be available. You can strengthen the message’s influence by
personalizing it. A final click on the “submit” button will
automatically send it to your U.S. representative.

You can also call your U.S. representative’s office through the
Capitol switchboard. Just give the switchboard operator your city or
zip code, and you will be connected to your U.S. representative’s
office:

202-225-3121
877-762-8762 (toll-free)

Here’s a sample of what to say when you reach your U.S.
representative’s office:

“Hi, my name is _______________, and I vote in ____________(city).
I’m calling to ask Representative ________________ to vote on July 7
for the Hinchey-Rohrabacher [pronounced ROAR-ah-BAH-ker] amendment
to the Commerce-Justice-State Appropriations bill. This amendment
would bar the Justice Department from raiding patients who use
medical marijuana in compliance with their states’ laws.”

If you’ve read this far and still haven’t clicked on the link, please
click it now:
http://www.mpp.org/DD/action.html

You can also help by forwarding this e-mail to friends and family who
want to see medical marijuana patients freed from the fear of arrest
and imprisonment. Tell them to act now!

Remember, last year, it was a success just to be able to get a vote on
the floor of the U.S. House of Representatives. This year, we can
actually win!

Rob Kampia
Executive Director
Marijuana Policy Project
Washington, D.C.

P.S. Please visit http://www.mpp.org/donate1003 to make a donation to
MPP, so that we will have the funds to continue the work that has
brought us so close to turning this legislation into law.

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?
Date: July 5, 2004 at 6:01:06 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi All,

Were you having stress and ringing of the ears before the antidepressants?  I tried them all and they did not help me.  In fact they made matters worse.  I know some people who it make things a whole lot better.  Thing is they take a long time to kick in and docs hand them out like candy.  They will give them to you by the handful but trying getting a Valum or Xanax.  I have been taking Valium for over 25 years off and on.  Never had a problem.  Check with your doc and he may change your meds.  After all there are so many antidepressants to choose from.  If it really bothers you say something.  They gave me very bad dreams and bad hallcinations.  But everyone is different but mention it at least.

CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 7/5/2004 12:39:20 PM Central Daylight Time, lchristoffersen@hotmail.com writes:
This is really doing my head in.  My life isn’t that stressfull at all
but I’m feeling really stressed.  I’m taking antidepressants which help a
little but not much and the tension in my neck and head is making work very
difficult and making me a little forgetfull and it’s been hard to keep up
with everything.

Hi Luke, Ringing in the ears, called tinnitis by physicians, is usually a side effect of medication. What antidepressant are you taking and when did you start it? Do you take aspirin or BC powders for your headache? Or maybe Darvon Compound?
The reason I ask is because ringing in ears is a common side effect of aspirin.
Howard will know if Ibogaine ever has caused ringing in ears but I bet it is something else you are taking.
I feel stressed like you when I am trying to not use and want or need to use really bad. I don’t know if you have been on the list long but we were discussing replacing using with more healthy changes not too long ago.
That is one of my fears about getting totally clean. I am so afraid I will never have the insight I need in order to not use. I am afraid if I quit using opiates and do nothing else I will relapse. If just quitting using would fix me I would’ve been fixed in the past.
Hope this post makes sense to you!
Read up about your current medications to see if tinnitis is side effect. Like I said it is fancy word for ringing in ears.
Callie

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete – You start. We finish.

From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW ::: The dis-ease of christianity
Date: July 5, 2004 at 5:14:27 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Dave:

>>If you are christian and find this offensive… well… I can’t say I’m
sorry. <<

Why should you say your sorry, all you did was tell the truth, not to mention the fact that you wern’t even born then?  I did not really want to bring in religion or even spiritulity which takes in everything, to this form. I’ll leave that for the TV guys fighting for money and power. I believe everyone must make their own relationship with God or whatever name you want to use.   We all know about the cowboys and Indians.  See, they had what they called manifest destiny which means the Lord wants you to take the land from the Indians for they are heathens, in fact it is you duty.  Now a guy comes over here and needs some land and wants it what’s he do.  Goes to a preacher who tells him what he wants to hear.

Then you have what the conquistadors did to the Aztec Indians, just as you say they robbed, raped and killed them and said by the way your religion is wrong too, you should be like us.

I figured someone was going to write a letter and say that all throughout history people had a way of getting high.  Chinese and opium, American Indians with peyote and mushrooms, Africans with Ibogaine, Rome had something I forget what, I could go on but you pretty much said it all for me.  Ever culture had some kind of drug to get high.  Also, ever culture had some kind of dance.  We talked about that at a 4th of July picnic.

>>>I believe it also has to do with the makeup of the brain
chemistry. I think it is really a spiritual dis-connection. <<<

Yea, and maybe both.  I know that narcotics help stop depression.  While others nod out after using, like I used to do, I get a lift, more energy, kind of like a hit of speed.  I have noticed this from others who have been using for a long time rather that those who just started.

But remember Christianity has only been around 2000 years or so.  Man has been killing each other since the begining of time.  If a person wants to kill any old reason will do.  You wrote an excellent letter hitting the nail on the head and telling the truth.  No problem here.

I would like be with the Indians sometime and experience some of their ceremonies.  For unlike many Christians I also believe that it is spiritual in nature, I also believe in reincarnation.  Yea, not your typical Christian but that’s what I believe.  I will never argue about religion or politics for you will not change the others mind.  But that’s just me, we all have to make our own relationship with the Lord even if the relationship is none.

Highest reguards and respect,

– JIM
D H <dave@phantom.com> wrote:

On Monday, July 5, 2004, at 07:47 AM, UUSEAN@aol.com wrote:
>
> I agree with you concerning the disease model of addiction.  It also
> shows how fucked up US drug policy is.  On one hand the most accepted
> “treatment” for addiction is a disease model, while police wage war on
> the supposedly sick.

My 2 cents… I don’t necessarily buy into the disease model 100%. I
like to call it Dis-Ease. I think certain people are pre-disposed to it
genetically, I believe it also has to do with the makeup of the brain
chemistry. I think it is really a spiritual dis-connection.

and…

I also think that christianity has been a major factor. Before the
onslaught of forced christianity, people across the planet had their
own cultural and spiritual beliefs. These people and cultures had
tribal communities that practiced spiritual rites, and were very
connected to the earth (most of their ceremonies were designed around
blessing the earth and its elements, and giving thanks) I have yet to
see any evidence of addiction in these pre-christian cultures. Then
along comes the self-rightous, christian religion, basically saying
“our way or you will go to hell”. People were tortured, raped and
murdered and their indigenous cultures all but destroyed (in the name
of “god” – or white mans interpretation of the word of god ). Our earth
based rituals were denounced as “pagan” and therefore evil, and the
only way to redemption was through the christian church, by giving your
money and lands over to “THE” word of god. And in most cases, if you
didn’t give, it was taken. And how. The Roman Catholic Church has the
largest land holdings of any one entity in the entire world. More blood
has been spilled in the name of christianity than any other single
cause in recorded history.

This left a whole lot of people completely uprooted and severed from
their true spiritual connection, and sought ways to escape their
depressing predicament. Many of these people had used psychedelic
plants to connect spiritually, which was also outlawed by the church
and denounced as witchcraft. A whole lot of people began to seek solace
in the bottle (and guess who the brewers were? – the christian monks!)
as the church destroyed everything that was true and sacred. Eventually
opium came west and its soothing effects were discovered by those in
need of relief. And as time and trade and medical science expanded,
cocaine and all the other drugs made their way into peoples blood
streams… which again has always been seen as evil and lacking in
social and moral acceptance by the church and government, which
historically has always been intertwined. The downward spiral
continues, like a dragon devouring its own tail… people seeking some
sort of relief from whatever ails them (which I consider in most cases
a spiritual detachment), and end up being shamed for seeking an altered
state that is basically Human kinds birthright… we are genetically
coded to seek altered states of consciousness (and ask questions).
Psychedelics have played a major role in the evolution and development
of man as a species… take away our connection to that and we will
seek whatever is available. And I believe that all started with
Christianity being forced down our throats.

Even the orginal Iboga eaters had Christianity forced down their
throats. They, like other cultures, merged Christianity with their own
beliefs.

I guess you could say christianity is like a disease… it has spread
and mutated and killed countless humans and entire cultures.

If you are christian and find this offensive… well… I can’t say I’m
sorry.

-dh

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail is new and improved – Check it out!

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW
Date: July 5, 2004 at 5:10:54 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Jim,

I think the you are getting the heart of the matter.  It is up to each user to describe their condition in a way that works for them.  When decides that their use has become a problem, however, treatment should be compassionate and non judgmental, and in my opinion, it should meet each client where they are at, not pushing any particular course of action down their throat.

As users, I think we really vary much more than is adknoweged.  Some of us are self medicating mental illness.  Some are killing physical or psychic pain, and some just really like the effect of a particular drug, and can safely use without much chaos in their lives.

We ain’t all the same, no matter what the fascist puritanical “care givers” tell us.

Sean

From: Nowwarat@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] predjudice
Date: July 5, 2004 at 5:10:52 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Very well said preston. I bet everyone here has thought about living back before the laws that threatened you and the mass hysteria that demonized you.

Each one of us I’m sure has stories of the skin taken off of our hides by the so called War.

Nowwarat

P.S. Good luck Jon. That is for those younger and more energy left in you to fight the good fight.Now drugs and terrorist and linked. SO take the profit out of it. Duh.

From: “jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW
Date: July 5, 2004 at 4:59:51 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

Yes, unfortunately yer right in that to feed that disease I must face the
wrath of a puritanical society determined to put me in my place for daring
want to use the substances that make me feel most human- human I write, at
least when not being chased through the blood and mud of a life lived as a
target of prohibitionist maniacs.
Peace,
Preston

i dunno man, i think calling it a disease, or probably more appropriately
a disorder, helps to break down the purtianical madness.

if it’s a medical issue (and i think it is), then nobody has any business
chastising you or punishing you for being an addict. it’s not a “moral
failure”, it’s a health problem.

and, being a health problem, it is just as despicable for the
prohibitionists to attack addicts as it would be to attack someone with
cancer or whatnot.

i think the key to improving life for addicts in this country is to get
people to realise that addiction needs to be treated like any other health
issue; that is, objectively and compassionately.

jon

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW
Date: July 5, 2004 at 4:45:07 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I think we are wired different, genes if you will.  We crave it far more
than the average person.<

Agreed, it’s just that the idea of labeling ourselves as “diseased” kinda
irks me, as should be readily apparent from my last post, although in many
instance and at many times it’s been the kindest, gentleist way for me to
explain to both others and to myself why I’ve continued getting high/fucking
up again and again despite the obvious hell I was going to be/was putting
myself in by doing so. Makes it less a mystery if I simply blame it all on
my disease. That darn disease made me do it, it was its fault, not mine, and
I’d give it a spanking if I thought it might help- but I do believe my
disease likes spankings and so I would only end up encouraging it.

Whatever you call it, it causes problems. I have learned a lot through this
forum.<

Yes, unfortunately yer right in that to feed that disease I must face the
wrath of a puritanical society determined to put me in my place for daring
want to use the substances that make me feel most human- human I write, at
least when not being chased through the blood and mud of a life lived as a
target of prohibitionist maniacs.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, July 05, 2004 12:35 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW

Hi Preston,

Don’t worry your “disease” does not respond to scalpes and radiation.  What
is the cure?  Hell, I don’t know, if I did I would be rich.  About
genetically linked, the American Indian has the highest percent of
alcoholism, the Jewish the least.  Is this environment or genetically linked
or a combination of both?  Let’s the the PHDs and doctors debate that.

But think for a minute, if you played with matches and burned your self once
or twice, chances are you would quit for I know your not a dummy, I can tell
by your posts.  I am sure that you know people who have or had lung cancer
or emphysema and continued to smoke.  I know some people who were diabetic
and continued to drink even after ruining their liver and having a foot
amputated.  Some people can go out to a restaurant and have a drink or two
and stop.  Others, when they have the first one the keep on and on.

I think we are wired different, genes if you will.  We crave it far more
than the average person.  Look at people who have been in jail for 10 years
and they come out and the first they do is get a shot of something.  ** You
want to do currently unacceptable drugs,***  so do I.  And I want to do a
great deal of them, more than the average person.  They don’t have to be
unacceptable drugs, they can be prescription drugs or alcohol.  Our problem
is we want to do ’em and do ’em and do ’em.  We want to do them so bad and
so much and so often.  I know some smart drunks and some dumb ones, the same
as weed, acid, XTC, users, ect.  We get more pleasant and happier feeling
when we use them rather than you “average” person.  Not only that, but some
of the drugs are habit forming and it is VERY hard to kick, or as one doc
said unpleasant.  Right, getting your hand cut off by a chain saw in also
unpleasant as well as painful.

A person who is sick from cancer,  Spinabifita, or whatever get sympathy and
understanding.  This same understanding is seldom passed on to those who get
AIDS,
cirrhosis of the liver, or hooked on dope.  I have seen the hatred, for lack
of a better word, from the eyes of doctors.  Others have experienced the
bums rush from the hospital when they need help.

Then there are people who got addicted through no fault of their own like
back operations, war injuries, etc.  They may of had the “desease” but never
know it.  You can call it a disease or a certain arrangement of the genetic
code.  Whatever you call it, it causes problems. I have learned a lot
through this forum.  And while we may disagree, respect is always shown, I
like that.

Best to ya, Preston

– JIM

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Callie wrote >Hopefully if they can view it as a disease and me as a woman
who was very sick at the time they can work through their feelings too.<

The main reason I don’t like the “disease” model is that too many people
ostracize the sick and diseased, and that we as a society tend to attack
disease with sharp pointy objects like scalples and radiation. I don’t want
to think of myself as “diseased” just because I need/want to do currently
unacceptable drugs.
But that’s my own perspective on things.
Peace
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 8:15 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW

List, Thanks so much for your posts regarding my guilt issues. Each of you
replying to my post to Julian was not expected. You all do no! t know how
much
your support and caring advice make me feel. Each of you made me stop and
look at the past with a different perspective. I really can’t put my
gratitude into words. I hope you can read between the lines of this letter
and feel what my spirit is feeling!

Jim, I have forgiven Julian! I just marked it up as another life experience!
I smile now when I think of those few days we bickered back and forth! I
hope Julian chuckles about it too!
And Jim you are totally on target as far as the disease concept. I have not
ever taken that approach with my boys but plan to do so soon. Hopefully if
they can view it as a disease and me as a woman who was very sick at the
time they can work through their feelings too.

It is going to take a LONG time for me to totally forgive myself but that
baggage is sure getting heavy after all these years and I think I should put
it in storage!! lol!

Lots of love to all of you! Let freedom ring!
Callie

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?
Date: July 5, 2004 at 4:32:46 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/5/2004 12:39:20 PM Central Daylight Time, lchristoffersen@hotmail.com writes:
This is really doing my head in.  My life isn’t that stressfull at all
but I’m feeling really stressed.  I’m taking antidepressants which help a
little but not much and the tension in my neck and head is making work very
difficult and making me a little forgetfull and it’s been hard to keep up
with everything.

Hi Luke, Ringing in the ears, called tinnitis by physicians, is usually a side effect of medication. What antidepressant are you taking and when did you start it? Do you take aspirin or BC powders for your headache? Or maybe Darvon Compound?
The reason I ask is because ringing in ears is a common side effect of aspirin.
Howard will know if Ibogaine ever has caused ringing in ears but I bet it is something else you are taking.
I feel stressed like you when I am trying to not use and want or need to use really bad. I don’t know if you have been on the list long but we were discussing replacing using with more healthy changes not too long ago.
That is one of my fears about getting totally clean. I am so afraid I will never have the insight I need in order to not use. I am afraid if I quit using opiates and do nothing else I will relapse. If just quitting using would fix me I would’ve been fixed in the past.
Hope this post makes sense to you!
Read up about your current medications to see if tinnitis is side effect. Like I said it is fancy word for ringing in ears.
Callie
From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW ::: The dis-ease of christianity
Date: July 5, 2004 at 2:57:19 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Monday, July 5, 2004, at 07:47 AM, UUSEAN@aol.com wrote:

I agree with you concerning the disease model of addiction.  It also shows how fucked up US drug policy is.  On one hand the most accepted “treatment” for addiction is a disease model, while police wage war on the supposedly sick.

My 2 cents… I don’t necessarily buy into the disease model 100%. I like to call it Dis-Ease. I think certain people are pre-disposed to it genetically, I believe it also has to do with the makeup of the brain chemistry. I think it is really a spiritual dis-connection.

and…

I also think that christianity has been a major factor. Before the onslaught of forced christianity, people across the planet had their own cultural and spiritual beliefs. These people and cultures had tribal communities that practiced spiritual rites, and were very connected to the earth (most of their ceremonies were designed around blessing the earth and its elements, and giving thanks) I have yet to see any evidence of addiction in these pre-christian cultures. Then along comes the self-rightous, christian religion, basically saying “our way or you will go to hell”. People were tortured, raped and murdered and their indigenous cultures all but destroyed (in the name of “god” – or white mans interpretation of the word of god ). Our earth based rituals were denounced as “pagan” and therefore evil, and the only way to redemption was through the christian church, by giving your money and lands over to “THE” word of god. And in most cases, if you didn’t give, it was taken. And how. The Roman Catholic Church has the largest land holdings of any one entity in the entire world. More blood has been spilled in the name of christianity than any other single cause in recorded history.

This left a whole lot of people completely uprooted and severed from their true spiritual connection, and sought ways to escape their depressing predicament. Many of these people had used psychedelic plants to connect spiritually, which was also outlawed by the church and denounced as witchcraft. A whole lot of people began to seek solace in the bottle (and guess who the brewers were? – the christian monks!) as the church destroyed everything that was true and sacred. Eventually opium came west and its soothing effects were discovered by those in need of relief. And as time and trade and medical science expanded, cocaine and all the other drugs made their way into peoples blood streams… which again has always been seen as evil and lacking in social and moral acceptance by the church and government, which historically has always been intertwined. The downward spiral continues, like a dragon devouring its own tail… people seeking some sort of relief from whatever ails them (which I consider in most cases a spiritual detachment), and end up being shamed for seeking an altered state that is basically Human kinds birthright… we are genetically coded to seek altered states of consciousness (and ask questions). Psychedelics have played a major role in the evolution and development of man as a species… take away our connection to that and we will seek whatever is available. And I believe that all started with Christianity being forced down our throats.

Even the orginal Iboga eaters had Christianity forced down their throats. They, like other cultures, merged Christianity with their own beliefs.

I guess you could say christianity is like a disease… it has spread and mutated and killed countless humans and entire cultures.

If you are christian and find this offensive… well… I can’t say I’m sorry.

-dh

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW
Date: July 5, 2004 at 2:01:11 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Jim,

Interesting post.  While I have given up on systems and programs to end addiction, I think that Jim Christopher, the founder of SOS, has some very valid points on the way the “disease” has been treated in the US.  Instead of focusing on the addictive nature of chemicals, form nicotine to heroin, the emphasis is on the flawed character of the user.

While I am not a subscriber to the disease concept, I think he makes a great point.
I also think that the harm reduction folks are really on the right track by pointing out that not everyone who uses drugs are abusers and addicts. There are occasional users, recreational users, heavy users, abusers and chaotic users.

I spent most of my life in the chaotic stage.  I have spent the better part of the last ten years smoking crack…my heroin abuse started as a way to avoid the crash.

Again, this is a world apart from our abstinence now for all through 12 step spirituality which keeps getting jammed down our throats.

Peace,
sean

From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: July 5, 2004 at 1:49:06 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Callie,

Your right, Suboxone has Narcan.  Some docs think they knew it all because they read the book.  If you read the PDR it will say that methadone has a half life of 4 hours the same as morphine.  It will also tell you that methadone detox is not as bad as morphine.  However, most docs know better.  When EVERY methadone user says methadone is harder, can we all be lying?  Did we all call each other and say tell the doc it is worse?  How about all the people saying it hurts right down to the bone?  We all can’t be lying.  Some docs are good, some are bad, some have the I’m next to God complex, others are on a power trip because they got the Rx pad.  I have found it really doesn’t pay to argue with a doc, they got their mind made up, they can never admit that they may be wrong.  If methadone is no worse than the others why do those clinics that give out bupe want to get ya below 30mg or the ones who do Ultra Rapid Detox.  Of all the narcotics I would say methadone is the worst to try and kick and maybe LLAM but never been there so I can’t say.

For those who want to learn more about bupe I found this article on the net.  Seems Patient 1 fits me, except for the doctor part.  It has the depression, weakness, and it fits me to a T.  So here is the link, you will probably have to do a cut and paste but this one article can answer many of your questions.

http://balder.prohosting.com/~adhpage/bupe.html

– JIM

CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
Tryte, Please read and gather all information before you start on Suboxone. The reason I say this is because it contains Naloxone which is the generic name for Narcan. I am afraid it will make withdrawal from opiates very painful and intense. Did you know this? The Doc should have told you.
Doctors do not know everything. Once I was in Parthenon Pavillion and the Doc said Methadone would be totally out of my system in 3 days. I was so sick after 9 days but I could not convince him it was withdrawals and I needed medicating! He said I was trying to manipulate him and staff! He said I should’ve been through withdrawing after 5th day!
I had to stay 21 days for evaluation so I had to have a friend sneak me in Methadone. I had been told that if anyone was caught bringing in unauthorized meds would be prosecuted. I chose not to tell my friend that!!  He would not have brought it if I had told him! I was so afraid he would get busted and it would be my fault!
Just be careful. I might be wrong about Suboxone. Their is Subutex and Suboxone. One contains Narcan, the other  doesn’t.
Hope to see you soon! Callie

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – You care about security. So do we.

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW
Date: July 5, 2004 at 1:47:27 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Preston,

I agree with you concerning the disease model of addiction.  It also shows how fucked up US drug policy is.  On one hand the most accepted “treatment” for addiction is a disease model, while police wage war on the supposedly sick.

Personally, I think each user has their own reasons for using, and trying to squeeze all users and abusers into the one size fits all 12 step model is ridiculous.

Just my two cents.

Sean

From: “Luke Christoffersen” <lchristoffersen@hotmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] ringing in ears?
Date: July 5, 2004 at 1:38:28 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi,
I haven’t posted on the list for I while, I’ve been so tired half the time. Has anyone experienced ringing in the ears after ibogaine?  I seem to get this quite now.
I havne’t been drinking for 3 months with the exeption of about 3 times but I seem to feel more stressed and tired. I think recall some other people on the list also having trouble with energy levels.
It seems like a combination of being sober and ibogaine having opened alot of blocked energy or tenion.  Whatever it is is making me feel quite exhausted at times.  I had a headache for 4 days a few weeks ago, that was one time I drank and the headache disapeared.
This is really doing my head in.  My life isn’t that stressfull at all but I’m feeling really stressed.  I’m taking antidepressants which help a little but not much and the tension in my neck and head is making work very difficult and making me a little forgetfull and it’s been hard to keep up with everything.

Luke

_________________________________________________________________
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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW
Date: July 5, 2004 at 12:35:55 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Preston,

Don’t worry your “disease” does not respond to scalpes and radiation.  What is the cure?  Hell, I don’t know, if I did I would be rich.  About genetically linked, the American Indian has the highest percent of alcoholism, the Jewish the least.  Is this environment or genetically linked or a combination of both?  Let’s the the PHDs and doctors debate that.

But think for a minute, if you played with matches and burned your self once or twice, chances are you would quit for I know your not a dummy, I can tell by your posts.  I am sure that you know people who have or had lung cancer or emphysema and continued to smoke.  I know some people who were diabetic and continued to drink even after ruining their liver and having a foot amputated.  Some people can go out to a restaurant and have a drink or two and stop.  Others, when they have the first one the keep on and on.

I think we are wired different, genes if you will.  We crave it far more than the average person.  Look at people who have been in jail for 10 years and they come out and the first they do is get a shot of something.  ** You want to do currently unacceptable drugs,***  so do I.  And I want to do a great deal of them, more than the average person.  They don’t have to be unacceptable drugs, they can be prescription drugs or alcohol.  Our problem is we want to do ’em and do ’em and do ’em.  We want to do them so bad and so much and so often.  I know some smart drunks and some dumb ones, the same as weed, acid, XTC, users, ect.  We get more pleasant and happier feeling when we use them rather than you “average” person.  Not only that, but some of the drugs are habit forming and it is VERY hard to kick, or as one doc said unpleasant.  Right, getting your hand cut off by a chain saw in also unpleasant as well as painful.

A person who is sick from cancer,  Spinabifita, or whatever get sympathy and understanding.  This same understanding is seldom passed on to those who get AIDS,
cirrhosis of the liver, or hooked on dope.  I have seen the hatred, for lack of a better word, from the eyes of doctors.  Others have experienced the bums rush from the hospital when they need help.

Then there are people who got addicted through no fault of their own like back operations, war injuries, etc.  They may of had the “desease” but never know it.  You can call it a disease or a certain arrangement of the genetic code.  Whatever you call it, it causes problems. I have learned a lot through this forum.  And while we may disagree, respect is always shown, I like that.

Best to ya, Preston

– JIM

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Callie wrote >Hopefully if they can view it as a disease and me as a woman
who was very sick at the time they can work through their feelings too.<

The main reason I don’t like the “disease” model is that too many people
ostracize the sick and diseased, and that we as a society tend to attack
disease with sharp pointy objects like scalples and radiation. I don’t want
to think of myself as “diseased” just because I need/want to do currently
unacceptable drugs.
But that’s my own perspective on things.
Peace
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 8:15 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW

List, Thanks so much for your posts regarding my guilt issues. Each of you
replying to my post to Julian was not expected. You all do not know how much
your support and caring advice make me feel. Each of you made me stop and
look at the past with a different perspective. I really can’t put my
gratitude into words. I hope you can read between the lines of this letter
and feel what my spirit is feeling!

Jim, I have forgiven Julian! I just marked it up as another life experience!
I smile now when I think of those few days we bickered back and forth! I
hope Julian chuckles about it too!
And Jim you are totally on target as far as the disease concept. I have not
ever taken that approach with my boys but plan to do so soon. Hopefully if
they can view it as a disease and me as a woman who was very sick at the
time they can work through their feelings too.

It is going to take a LONG time for me to totally forgive myself but that
baggage is sure getting heavy after all these years and I think I should put
it in storage!! lol!

Lots of love to all of you! Let freedom ring!
Callie

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW
Date: July 5, 2004 at 11:14:58 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Callie wrote >Hopefully if they can view it as a disease and me as a woman
who was very sick at the time they can work through their feelings too.<

The main reason I don’t like the “disease” model is that too many people
ostracize the sick and diseased, and that we as a society tend to attack
disease with sharp pointy objects like scalples and radiation. I don’t want
to think of myself as “diseased” just because I need/want to do currently
unacceptable drugs.
But that’s my own perspective on things.
Peace
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 8:15 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW

List, Thanks so much for your posts regarding my guilt issues. Each of you
replying to my post to Julian was not expected. You all do not know how much
your support and caring advice make me feel. Each of you made me stop and
look at the past with a different perspective. I really can’t put my
gratitude into words. I hope you can read between the lines of this letter
and feel what my spirit is feeling!

Jim, I have forgiven Julian! I just marked it up as another life experience!
I smile now when I think of those few days we bickered back and forth! I
hope Julian chuckles about it too!
And Jim you are totally on target as far as the disease concept. I have not
ever taken that approach with my boys but plan to do so soon. Hopefully if
they can view it as a disease and me as a woman who was very sick at the
time they can work through their feelings too.

It is going to take a LONG time for me to totally forgive myself but that
baggage is sure getting heavy after all these years and I think I should put
it in storage!! lol!

Lots of love to all of you! Let freedom ring!
Callie

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] (OT) Re: [ibogaine] Price on Ibogaine treatment
Date: July 5, 2004 at 11:11:05 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Oh, and if you are talking about my jamming Jon, which I just realized you
might be, instead of my djing, I play hard, agressive rock/punk/gothish
music- I sing and play guitar, and the jam session Saturday went
fantastically, (although it’s a bitch playing nowadays what with my back- I
practically killed myself the other day- but it was worth it) and I’ve found
myself a new drummer who is incredible.
Peace again,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 3:16 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] (OT) Re: [ibogaine] Price on Ibogaine treatment

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

Seriously, I’m a little grouchy and befuddled feeling this morning,
trying to shake off the cobwebs before going to jam this afternoon, so I
apologize up front if I sound snippy, but I would like to know why you
yourself have that setting set in your email.
Peace,
Preston

hey man… also off topic…   what kinda music do you do? =)

jon

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] (OT) Re: [ibogaine] Price on Ibogaine treatment
Date: July 5, 2004 at 11:08:34 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jon asked >hey man… also off topic…   what kinda music do you do? =)<

I play goth, rock, industrial, punk, some little newwave, and whatever else
strikes my fancy Jon. I initially planned on spinning pretty much straight
up goth music, thinking it was a straight up goth bar, but they’re a bit
more relaxed than that, and so while they do lean towards the goth flavor, I
discovered to my own pleasent surprise that they were thrilled to find out
last Wednesday (my first night there) that I spin more musical flavors than
“just” Goth.
I play stuff like Alice Cooper’s “Blue Turk,” lots of Bauhaus, Sisters of
Mercy, Alien Sex Fiend, Queens of the Stone Age, Black Sabbath, Slunt, The
Darkness, Scorn, Siouxie and the Banshees, the Cure, Joy Division, Ima
Robot, Incubus (Megalomaniac is a Great Song btw), Love and Rockets, Tones
on Tail, Elvis Costello, Depeche Mode, Johnny Cash, Motley Crue, Iron
Maiden, PIL, a great mix of Led Zepplin’s Whole Lotta Love combined with Van
Halen’s Eruption (start playing Eruption right when the middle part of Whole
Lotta Love starts- it fits as though it were meant to be played in there.
It’s currently my favorite “mixing” trick), Mamas and the Papas (Straight
Shooter is an great song), The Damned, Jet, Motorhead, Las Vegas, Desert
Sessions, Buck Cherry, Jane’s Addiction, Porno for Pyros, Strokes, Marilyn
Manson, B-52s, Agent Orange, Circle Jerks, Dead Can Dance (on rare
occasions), Peaches, (Look for Peaches’ version of Bad Reputation, I think
titled “I don’t give a…,” a take-off of Joan Jett’s AC/DC cover- it’s
awesome), Rage Against the Machine, GNR, Judas Priest, Primus, White Zombie,
The Stranglers, Steve Earle, and a whole lot more, etc.
Hope this nails it down better.
;-))
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 3:16 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] (OT) Re: [ibogaine] Price on Ibogaine treatment

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

Seriously, I’m a little grouchy and befuddled feeling this morning,
trying to shake off the cobwebs before going to jam this afternoon, so I
apologize up front if I sound snippy, but I would like to know why you
yourself have that setting set in your email.
Peace,
Preston

hey man… also off topic…   what kinda music do you do? =)

jon

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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Harm
Date: July 5, 2004 at 6:56:10 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Mr. Izgy.
You are most welcome!
I’m still thinking …sitting on it.
But it is possible,
I’m just in the middle of IT for the last few weeks, It is coming ,
An answer will show up today to you and others.
Promises.
Take care
sara

Dear Sean
> Thank you that’s all correct, you are definitely right.
>
> I’m in this list maybe one year and I tried Ibo for one time. I was so
> strange and it worked I stayed clean around one month even I stopped
> cigarettes in that time. But suddenly cravings came back and in a moment
> that I was emotionaly weak I started oppiate using again.
>
> But I decided that I will quit addiction one way or the other. I’m living
> in Turkey and it’s very hard to live in a kind of country. Peoples don’t
> like guys like me because of the religion and ignorance.
>
> There is so many person tried to help me in Ibo list, specialy Amon and
> Sara. I’m gratefull to them. After I came to this list my chance turned to
> good. Now I’m working in a reguler job and I’m in met prog. now.
>
> I’m collecting money to Ibo treatment in a clinic somewhere I don’t
> decided yet. I asked informatiom about prices and place from Sara but She
> hasn’t answered me yet. If you know about Ibo clinics please share with
> me.
>
> (I’m sory for bad language and thank you for answer)
> Maybe you can remember about me but I forget my nick that I wrote to list
> before under it. I find another one.
>
> With My Best Regards
> FakePlacebo
>   —– Original Message —–
>   From: UUSEAN@aol.com
>   To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>   Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 6:29 PM
>   Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Harm
>
>
>
>   Hi FakeP,
>
>   Probobly the greatest dnager of opiate use is overdose and death.  Even
> experienced users, because purity is not regulated by anyone, can come
> across a bag of dope that’s too pure,or cut with some horrendous shit.
> Tolerence deveolps with pills, so users need ever higher doses to get
> the same high. This can lead to overdose.  Overdose causes respitory
> failure.
>
>   Sharing needles can lead to hepC, HIV (I know as I have both.)  Sharing
> cottons is just as dangerous.
>
>   I believe that it unrealistic to believe that knowing the above will
> stop anyone form using if they don’t choose to.  I know it didn’t stop
> me.  Therefore I am all for needle exchange, teaching safe injection
> etc.  Also putting use in terms of good and bad misses the point of why
> people use.  Nobody uses for no reason.  Deep pleasure is a common
> motivation.  Relief from pain, physical or psychic.
>
>   This is one reason I became interested in Ibogaine.  Many who have
> experienced it, I have read get in touch with why they used in the first
> place.  In the mean time, however, I am starting therapy with a
> counselor who comes from this point of view.
>
>   Hope this helped.
>
>   Sean
>
Van: Mustafa izgi [mailto:fakeplacebo@hotmail.com] 
Verzonden: maandag 5 juli 2004 10:02
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [ibogaine] Harm

Dear Sean
Thank you that’s all correct, you are definitely right.

I’m in this list maybe one year and I tried Ibo for one time. I was so strange and it worked I stayed clean around one month even I stopped cigarettes in that time. But suddenly cravings came back and in a moment that I was emotionaly weak I started oppiate using again.

But I decided that I will quit addiction one way or the other. I’m living in Turkey and it’s very hard to live in a kind of country. Peoples don’t like guys like me because of the religion and ignorance.

There is so many person tried to help me in Ibo list, specialy Amon and Sara. I’m gratefull to them. After I came to this list my chance turned to good. Now I’m working in a reguler job and I’m in met prog. now.

I’m collecting money to Ibo treatment in a clinic somewhere I don’t decided yet. I asked informatiom about prices and place from Sara but She hasn’t answered me yet. If you know about Ibo clinics please share with me.

(I’m sory for bad language and thank you for answer)
Maybe you can remember about me but I forget my nick that I wrote to list before under it. I find another one.

With My Best Regards
FakePlacebo
—– Original Message —–
From: UUSEAN@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 6:29 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Harm

Hi FakeP,

Probobly the greatest dnager of opiate use is overdose and death.  Even experienced users, because purity is not regulated by anyone, can come across a bag of dope that’s too pure,or cut with some horrendous shit.  Tolerence deveolps with pills, so users need ever higher doses to get the same high. This can lead to overdose.  Overdose causes respitory failure.

Sharing needles can lead to hepC, HIV (I know as I have both.)  Sharing cottons is just as dangerous.

I believe that it unrealistic to believe that knowing the above will stop anyone form using if they don’t choose to.  I know it didn’t stop me.  Therefore I am all for needle exchange, teaching safe injection etc.  Also putting use in terms of good and bad misses the point of why people use.  Nobody uses for no reason.  Deep pleasure is a common motivation.  Relief from pain, physical or psychic.  

This is one reason I became interested in Ibogaine.  Many who have experienced it, I have read get in touch with why they used in the first place.  In the mean time, however, I am starting therapy with a counselor who comes from this point of view.

Hope this helped.

Sean

From: “jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: product question (fwd)
Date: July 5, 2004 at 5:36:02 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

finally got an answer from ethnogarden…

———- Forwarded message ———-
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2004 18:57:10 -0800
From: Ethnogarden Botanicals Administration <admin@Ethnogarden.com>
To: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: product question

Greetings,

The potency of the root bark is 3-6% alkaloids.

WE will be bringing the extract to market slowly as we have been extremely busy with other projects.

Thanks for your interest in our products!

Jason Callan  Pres.
Ethnogarden Botanicals
Tel:+(01)-705-735-0540
Fax:+(01)-705-735-4332
Web: www.ethnogarden.com
E-Mail: admin@ethnogarden.com
—– Original Message —–
From: jon
To: info@ethnogarden.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 9:05 AM
Subject: product question

Hello,

A little while ago I emailed you with a couple questions about your iboga
products, but I haven’t heard back, so I just wanted to make sure you got
the email.

I’d like to know if you could tell me the alkaloid content of the iboga
root bark. There were some concerns regarding the potency of the root bark
you had in stock previously, but I was told that you have a new batch in
stock.

I had also heard that you are working on a rootbark extract, and I was
wondering when you are expecting to have that ready for sale, and how much
you’re thinking of charging for it.

Thanks very much,

jon f.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Mustafa izgi” <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Harm
Date: July 5, 2004 at 4:02:04 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Sean
Thank you that’s all correct, you are definitely right.

I’m in this list maybe one year and I tried Ibo for one time. I was so strange and it worked I stayed clean around one month even I stopped cigarettes in that time. But suddenly cravings came back and in a moment that I was emotionaly weak I started oppiate using again.

But I decided that I will quit addiction one way or the other. I’m living in Turkey and it’s very hard to live in a kind of country. Peoples don’t like guys like me because of the religion and ignorance.

There is so many person tried to help me in Ibo list, specialy Amon and Sara. I’m gratefull to them. After I came to this list my chance turned to good. Now I’m working in a reguler job and I’m in met prog. now.

I’m collecting money to Ibo treatment in a clinic somewhere I don’t decided yet. I asked informatiom about prices and place from Sara but She hasn’t answered me yet. If you know about Ibo clinics please share with me.

(I’m sory for bad language and thank you for answer)
Maybe you can remember about me but I forget my nick that I wrote to list before under it. I find another one.

With My Best Regards
FakePlacebo
—– Original Message —–
From: UUSEAN@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 6:29 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Harm

Hi FakeP,

Probobly the greatest dnager of opiate use is overdose and death.  Even experienced users, because purity is not regulated by anyone, can come across a bag of dope that’s too pure,or cut with some horrendous shit.  Tolerence deveolps with pills, so users need ever higher doses to get the same high. This can lead to overdose.  Overdose causes respitory failure.

Sharing needles can lead to hepC, HIV (I know as I have both.)  Sharing cottons is just as dangerous.

I believe that it unrealistic to believe that knowing the above will stop anyone form using if they don’t choose to.  I know it didn’t stop me.  Therefore I am all for needle exchange, teaching safe injection etc.  Also putting use in terms of good and bad misses the point of why people use.  Nobody uses for no reason.  Deep pleasure is a common motivation.  Relief from pain, physical or psychic.

This is one reason I became interested in Ibogaine.  Many who have experienced it, I have read get in touch with why they used in the first place.  In the mean time, however, I am starting therapy with a counselor who comes from this point of view.

Hope this helped.

Sean

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Forgive yourself NOW
Date: July 4, 2004 at 8:15:20 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

List, Thanks so much for your posts regarding my guilt issues. Each of you replying to my post to Julian was not expected. You all do not know how much your support and caring advice make me feel. Each of you made me stop and look at the past with a different perspective. I really can’t put my gratitude into words. I hope you can read between the lines of this letter and feel what my spirit is feeling!

Jim, I have forgiven Julian! I just marked it up as another life experience! I smile now when I think of those few days we bickered back and forth! I hope Julian chuckles about it too!
And Jim you are totally on target as far as the disease concept. I have not ever taken that approach with my boys but plan to do so soon. Hopefully if they can view it as a disease and me as a woman who was very sick at the time they can work through their feelings too.

It is going to take a LONG time for me to totally forgive myself but that baggage is sure getting heavy after all these years and I think I should put it in storage!! lol!

Lots of love to all of you! Let freedom ring!
Callie

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: July 4, 2004 at 7:45:37 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Tryte, Please read and gather all information before you start on Suboxone. The reason I say this is because it contains Naloxone which is the generic name for Narcan. I am afraid it will make withdrawal from opiates very painful and intense. Did you know this? The Doc should have told you.
Doctors do not know everything. Once I was in Parthenon Pavillion and the Doc said Methadone would be totally out of my system in 3 days. I was so sick after 9 days but I could not convince him it was withdrawals and I needed medicating! He said I was trying to manipulate him and staff! He said I should’ve been through withdrawing after 5th day!
I had to stay 21 days for evaluation so I had to have a friend sneak me in Methadone. I had been told that if anyone was caught bringing in unauthorized meds would be prosecuted. I chose not to tell my friend that!!  He would not have brought it if I had told him! I was so afraid he would get busted and it would be my fault!
Just be careful. I might be wrong about Suboxone. Their is Subutex and Suboxone. One contains Narcan, the other  doesn’t.
Hope to see you soon! Callie
From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: July 4, 2004 at 4:16:37 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Callie,
In some ways you remind me of me.  I carry GUILT around too.  Of all the people who know what they are talking about all told me the same thing, carrying around guilt is BAD.  I have even been told this by a counselor in a detox place.  I told them I had good parents, they told me to not use drugs, don’t smoke, don’t drink, go to school, make something out of yourself, etc.  But I was a teenager and as you know teenagers know everything.  I knew more than they did, more than the docs etc, etc.  OK, you were not the best mom, few are until the kids grow up and have their own.  If they care enough to come visit you that should tell you something.  You screwed up, learn from it, apologize to them and tell them you were sick, that you had a disease, which is the truth.  They may be more understanding than you may think.  One thing I remember when I was in detox was to quit putting quarters in the ass-kicking machine.  I don’t know if your religious or not.  I consider myself spiritual rather than religious.  Roughly and quickly I view the difference as this.  It doesn’t matter if your Catholic, Baptist or whatever.  Rather it is how you treat your fellow man (or woman).  I go to church on Sunday when I am not sick, Hep C can drain the life right out of you.  People ask me what religion I am and I say ROC and they say What? and I say Regular Old Christian.  I don’t follow the dogma, but mainly the Golden Rule and the part where they ask Jesus of all the commandments which are the most important and Jesus said.  Love the Lord and love you neighbor.  Sorry if you think I’m getting in religion for I really don’t mean to but this is a rather special case.  If your children care enough to come and visit you chances are they forgive you, now forgive yourself.  I can’t speak for you but Julian has wrote several times saying she is sorry for some letters she has written to you.  Like I said I can not speak for you but I have the feeling you have had some bad hair days and you understand and forgive her.  The Bible says forgive and thou shall be forgiven.  You can not turn back the hands of time, it’s over, explain to them that you had a bad disease called addiction, apologize for you shortcomings, ask them for forgiveness, THEN FORGIVE YOURSELF.  I am not a priest or minister, just a ROC.  I can tell your hurting, your wearying your mistakes on you chest like The Scarlet Letter (remember that boring ass book we read in HS).  I am in my fifties and I have seen the good, the bad and the ugly.  The very fact that you are sorry speaks for itself.
I could go into a long boring story about an experiment where they had rats go over an electrical plate and get a shock in order to get their fix.  The rats would do it to get their fix but not to get water.  They would die rather than get the shock in order to get water but suffer the shock to get their dope.  This shows the power of the drug and the severity of addiction.  You had a disease, a fatal one at that.  If you had cancer and were on drugs that made you bitchie and unable to care for the children people would understand.  Some would say poor Callie, she must feel terrible.  However, with the disease of addiction there is no such sympathy.
Your out of denial and once you admit you have a problem you can take steps to fix it,  which you are doing.  My habit almost cost me some time in jail.  If I was the judge I would of put my ass in jail.  Why am I alive when so many of the people who I grew up with are dead?  I don’t know, you will have to ask God about that one.  I am sorry to bring religion or spirituality to the forum for each of us must find our own relationship with God.  IMHO, if you don’t forgive yourself and start loving yourself your problems will never go away.  Again, I have no room to talk for I keep putting quarters in the ass-kicking machine from what my friends and even people in the treatment center have told me.  If I didn’t care I wouldn’t of taken the time to write this letter.  One thing I am sure of, God put you here for a reason. Also, guilt is a great way to go back to using.  Next time you want to hear a joke ask me about rationalization.  I have the funniest rationalization story you ever head.
Forgive yourself NOW,
– JIM
— Original Message —– 
> From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 7:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
>
>
> Julian, Before I learned of Ibogaine, I had resigned myself to the fact
that
> I would be a lifetime Methadone Maintenance client at some Methadone
clinic!
> Now, to me this was a relief as I was headed straight to prison. I had
> developed such a habit that illegally obtaining my narcotics by fraud was
> the only way I could afford them! Methadone was literally a life saver to
> me! I will be forever grateful and I hope the Ibogaine treatment(s) ‘cure’
> me but if they do not I will not ever go back to my prior use.
>
> Like I said before, I have no doubt I could detox but it is the
> psychological shit that has me all fucked up!!!
> I hate the way I feel without narcotics……I love the euphoria and mood
> boost I have always obtained from opiates.
>
> My son visited last Monday. He is 25 and it was the first time I have seen
> him since his wedding last June. He and his wife live in Texas.
> I got so uncomfortable the couple of days leading up to his visit that I
was
> seeking extra Methadone to take the edge off!
> I really hurt my boys during their childhood. I hate to say it but
evidently
> loved dope more than spending time with them.
> Now it hurts me to the core to look back on the selfish choices I made. I
> know it hurts them too. They have been able to move on but I have not! The
> guilt eats me up!! There is not a day that goes by that I do not feel that
> gut wrenching shame of my past behaviors!
> Their Dad is a good man. I could not have picked a better father for my
> children. He raised them in my absence. Needless to say he hates my guts.
> That is probably putting it lightly! He does not understand why they love
me
> and I really don’t know why they do either.
> Oh, they have issues I am sure! They say they have gotten past it but I
> really don’t see how they could.
> Anyway…..you know that if I chose the drugs over my children that I will
> continue to choose them! I can’t not choose them. Sad….huh?
>
> So brother, I know how you feel! Wish I had the answers! Like I said
> before….if I ever get them You folks will get them too!
> Callie
>
>
>
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<)[%]
>
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>
>


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Do you Yahoo!?
Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone.

From: “jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] (OT) Re: [ibogaine] Price on Ibogaine treatment
Date: July 4, 2004 at 3:16:01 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

Seriously, I’m a little grouchy and befuddled feeling this morning,
trying to shake off the cobwebs before going to jam this afternoon, so I
apologize up front if I sound snippy, but I would like to know why you
yourself have that setting set in your email.
Peace,
Preston

hey man… also off topic…   what kinda music do you do? =)

jon

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From: “Michael Maxey” <mike2boys@msn.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] How Effective is it?
Date: July 4, 2004 at 3:06:54 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I have been on Neurontin 44800mg daily that is 800mg 6 daily.  It really helps the nerve pain in my low back and into my legs       I would say it does help have the pain patients  It is not Addicting at all.  I can stop ASAP  but after 3 days the nerve pain bad  I have a spinal Cord Stimulator  for nerve pain to.  I want off all this Duragesic 100 mg every 3 days   I read a person added menthol to it and got alarge dose of med.   Weried  what people do to get Duragesic to work faster.  Is it  possible  seriously?  mike
—– Original Message —–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 7:59 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] How Effective is it?

In a message dated 7/3/04 11:20:08 PM, CallieMimosa@aol.com writes:

>
>In a message dated 7/3/2004 8:36:16 PM Central Daylight Time,
>HSLotsof@aol.com writes:
>
>Neurontin in addition to being a pain
>medication and an adjunct pain medication is an antiepileptic.  The package
>insert indicates  tapered withdrawal of the medication.  You may be able
>to taper off  of neurontin if that becomes a barrier to ibogaine therapy and
then
>determine if you want to be maintained on it after ibogaine  therapy.

>Howard and Mike…
>Let me begin by saying I am not a pharmacist or chemist  but I am a nurse
>who works with elderly. A large number of my patients  experience chronic
pain
>and Neurontin is freely prescribed to most of them.  Also, Charlie, my
>boyfriend who has considerable pain, took 600 mg of Neurontin  four times
daily.
>I have yet to see any withdrawal when Neurontin is stopped  without a taper.
>I believe the taper indications are if the Neurontin is used to  control
>seizures. Personally I have many questions as to the effectiveness of
Neurontin
>on pain. I have yet to hear anyone say that the Neurontin worked as  far as
>pain goes. I feel like it is one of those drugs that is over advertised  to
>physicians by the drug companies.
>Doctors jump at any new non addicting analgesics! Most really  worry about
>writing scripts for narcotics. Charlie began Neurontin in 2000. He took it
up to 6 >months ago  at dose I stated above. It became a non formulary drug
with his insurance >and we could not afford it. We discussed this with his Doc
and the Doc said to >discontinue  it. He also  said that there has not been
overwhelming data that it helps >pain at  all. I would be interested in the
effects Ibogaine treatment has on  Neurontin.
>Please take my statements as only observations and not backed  by any solid
>proof! Until it is shown to not have adverse reactions after it is
discontinued abruptly >I would taper down if possible.

Dear Callie,

Thank you very much for your observations.  Ibogaine’s antiaddictive effects
were discovered by observations.  On the issue of pain management and
neurontin I cannot determine from observations if it is valuable as a stand alone
medication but, when taken with opioids it does enhance their action.  A comment
by Mike on this subject would be valuable.

Thanks again,

Howard

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Hello all
Date: July 4, 2004 at 12:11:05 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi all,

Tylenol # 4 has codiene in it, Lortab has hydrocodone.  It is just another pain killer.  The body takes codeine and brakes it down to morphine.  For example a Tylenor # 4 has 60mg codeine and the body breaks it down to about 6 mg of morphine, fun facts to know and tell.  But should find a compassionate doc and tell him you have a drug problem and sever back pain he may figure you would be better off taking codeine or Lortab which is hydrocodone than going to a met clinic where they often treat you like kids.  Most docs know met is much harder to get kick.  The advantage is you can go to the doc once or twice a month, don’t have to feel like a no-good junkie, don’t have counselors threating to take away your take homes if you smoke a little weed.

Actually it is against the law to treat an addict with anything but met or now bupe or LLAM (a long lasting form of methadone – don’t try it).  However, if he is just treating your back for pain he may give you  enough to take away the w/d pain thus you substitute heroin or whatever for what he gives you.  He will give you a schedule III like the two I mentioned.  No morphine or oxycotin or dilaudid, these are schedule II drugs and the cops (DEA) can get down on the doc.  Then you can taper off at your own pace.  However, if you are taking 4 tabs a day and figure I will take them all at once and get a buzz, you won’t. (maybe a very little on the codeine).  Therefore, it acts like met keeping away the w/d, gives you a little self respect and in case something happens like a vacation you can go to a hospital and maybe get a shot in the butt of demerol and 7.5 mg tabs of Lortab and everything is fine.  They don’t give you that junkie trying to get a fix, throw his ass out look.

Also, if he is using 85 mg of met no doc will switch him to codeine or hydrocodone for he would have to take 15 tabs per day.  He will just have to detox from the met which is slow and painful.  I wish him all the luck.

– JIM

Allison Senepart <paradisepaint@call>, UNEXPECTED_DATA_AFTER_ADDRESS@.SYNTAX-ERROR. wrote:
Its my partner on the methadone, 85mgs a day for the last 5 or 6 years and probably about the same amount of years last time he was on the programme.  I dont know about Lortab.  Have heard of Tylenol but am not familiar with it either.  Is it used like methadone for detox???  or just another painkiller. (narcotic / non narcotic???)

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Sunday, 4 July 2004 3:02:38 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Hello all

Hi Allison,

Damn, $25 for met.  I remember being in Florida in a pain clinic and the doc gave me a Rx for methadone and it was like twenty-five cents for a 10 mg tab.  You could even get it cheaper if you looked around.  If I can buy them from the pharmacy for twenty-five cents that means the pharmacistis is paying ten cents or less.  Out of curiosity how much does a good shot of heroin cost?  Or a pill of Lortab.  The pharmacistis sounds like he needs a good asskicking.  With the understanding … never mind.  From what my friends tell me it cost $70 per week regardless of how much you take. The stuff is really dirt cheap, I can see people on the street trying to charge that much.

Years ago in Detroit, people were going to clinics and getting take home doses of 60 to 100 mg, selling it for $40 or $80 thus getting enough money to buy a damg good hit of heroin and having a few bucks left over.  I mean Woodward ave had more met sellers than hookers.  Well all good things must come to an end and it showed the cops busting the sellers.  The TV media loves it too.  But $25 dollars a day that should be illegal  That’s why I was wondering how much a good pack of heroin cost.  Also, maybe you can get your doc to give you other narcotics like Tylenol # 4 or Lortab and you can detrox much cheaper.  How much met are you taking if you don’t mind me asking?  Once I went from 60 mg of Lortab down to about 2 1/2 mg.  I did it nice and slow then the depression,
waekness and pain started again and I went up to my normal dose.  Now, that was one time in five years of taking it.  But met is the last thing I would want to kick.  I am not sure how the game is played over there but it would be nice if you could work out some kind of deal with your doc.

– JIM

Allison Senepart <paradisepaint@call>, UNEXPECTED_DATA_AFTER_ADDRESS@.SYNTAX-ERROR. wrote:
While in Australia it cost $25 a day for your dose (no money, no dose),

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Hello all
Date: July 4, 2004 at 11:32:48 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi all,

Years ago when I worked at a factory we would all go to Windsor Raceway.  Today they have Casinos.  When they asked where we were going we would just say race track.  The only question they would ask is where were you born and everyone would say Detroit.

However, that was post 9/11.  Today I would say I was going to the Casino, but they may woneder why you have suitcases packed in the trunk.  Also, it would be better if you had a rented car, rented from a state like MI or NY that touches Canada.  But chances are you are planing on flying so this letter is wasted.  Unless you want to fly to the border, cross by car and drive the rest of the way.

It is too bad too because Canada is a beautiful country.  Funny, terrorist don’t seem to have much of a problem.

Best to ya,

– JIM

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
CrookedEye wrote >But I got a passport with a felony for drugs and I know I
can’t travel into Canada but as far as I know, most other places are okay.<

And I ask, does Canada always check each and every tourist who tries to
enter Canada? Do they do background checks on everybody, even on those who
are just crossing for a day trip?
I’ve never been to Canada, but do remember traveling all over Europe while
living there for slightly over 5 years time, (spread out over a decade
covering the years 1984 to 1994), and had many countries’ customs officials
not even look at my passport, much less stamp it with a visa or do a
background check for my criminal record. Granted this was not the same with
each country, and much of the traveling was done inside Europe where they’re
a little more relaxed, but flying in from the States wasn’t any different in
most cases- England having the strictest guards of all in my own experience.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: CrookedEye420@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 5:10 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Hello all

I am in the US, so this may not be as easy for you. But I got a passport
with a felony for drugs and I know I can’t travel into Canada but as far as
I know, most other places are okay.

In a message dated 7/3/2004 5:06:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
CrookedEye420@aol.com writes:
I am a convicted felon for heroin and crack cocaine and I flew to Amsterdam,
no problem. Canada on the otherhand is a no-no, for felons.

In a message dated 7/3/2004 4:24:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
paradisepaint@callsouth.net.nz writes:
Your message jumped out at me. My partner also had back problems, has had 2
major operations and then after all the years recovering + using loads of
opiates, morphine, poppies etc. Finally getting it together on the
Methadone and then he broke his ankle and it all fell to bits again.
We talked of a holiday in Australia for 16 years but the money kept
disappearing up our arms etc. We have finally had our holiday (2 weeks in
sunny Queensland) but had a few probs with customs etc. because Wayne had
to have clearance to take 2 days of takeaway Methadone with him and then we
had to go to a clinic in Brisbane to get it all OKed with letters etc. and
then hang round for ages to get more reference letters to get a methadone
pickup at a pharmacy near where we were staying. It was certainly an
experience. Maybe we have it easy in NZ. While in Australia it cost $25 a
day for your dose (no money, no dose), one pharmacy had this big set of
rules which included no partners, wives etc. allowed in the shop with the
person taking the dose, no sunglasses(?? is that to check your eyes or stop
you looking rough or something). Also one chemist only supplied takeaways
in glass bottles which we had to pay $1. each for and then told us to wrap
them up carefully because under no condition would there be any replacement
if one broke.
We also have a friend that has a conviction for cocaine and he can’t go on
holiday anywhere so where does that leave people trying to get treatment in
other countries. Would be interested to know how others get on or perhaps
they don’t have drug convictions and can travel. Allison

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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Harm
Date: July 4, 2004 at 11:29:36 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi FakeP,

Probobly the greatest dnager of opiate use is overdose and death.  Even experienced users, because purity is not regulated by anyone, can come across a bag of dope that’s too pure,or cut with some horrendous shit.  Tolerence deveolps with pills, so users need ever higher doses to get the same high. This can lead to overdose.  Overdose causes respitory failure.

Sharing needles can lead to hepC, HIV (I know as I have both.)  Sharing cottons is just as dangerous.

I believe that it unrealistic to believe that knowing the above will stop anyone form using if they don’t choose to.  I know it didn’t stop me.  Therefore I am all for needle exchange, teaching safe injection etc.  Also putting use in terms of good and bad misses the point of why people use.  Nobody uses for no reason.  Deep pleasure is a common motivation.  Relief from pain, physical or psychic.

This is one reason I became interested in Ibogaine.  Many who have experienced it, I have read get in touch with why they used in the first place.  In the mean time, however, I am starting therapy with a counselor who comes from this point of view.

Hope this helped.

Sean

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Hello all
Date: July 4, 2004 at 11:08:07 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

CrookedEye wrote >But I got a passport with a felony for drugs and I know I
can’t travel into Canada but as far as I know, most other places are okay.<

And I ask, does Canada always check each and every tourist who tries to
enter Canada? Do they do background checks on everybody, even on those who
are just crossing for a day trip?
I’ve never been to Canada, but do remember traveling all over Europe while
living there for slightly over 5 years time, (spread out over a decade
covering the years 1984 to 1994), and had many countries’ customs officials
not even look at my passport, much less stamp it with a visa or do a
background check for my criminal record. Granted this was not the same with
each country, and much of the traveling was done inside Europe where they’re
a little more relaxed, but flying in from the States wasn’t any different in
most cases- England having the strictest guards of all in my own experience.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: CrookedEye420@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 5:10 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Hello all

I am in the US, so this may not be as easy for you.  But I got a passport
with a felony for drugs and I know I can’t travel into Canada but as far as
I know, most other places are okay.

In a message dated 7/3/2004 5:06:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
CrookedEye420@aol.com writes:
I am a convicted felon for heroin and crack cocaine and I flew to Amsterdam,
no problem.  Canada on the otherhand is a no-no, for felons.

In a message dated 7/3/2004 4:24:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
paradisepaint@callsouth.net.nz writes:
Your message jumped out at me.  My partner also had back problems, has had 2
major operations and then after all the years recovering + using loads of
opiates, morphine, poppies etc.  Finally getting it together on the
Methadone and then he broke his ankle and it all fell to bits again.
We talked of a holiday in Australia for 16 years but the money kept
disappearing up our arms etc.  We have finally had our holiday (2 weeks in
sunny Queensland) but had a few probs with customs etc.  because Wayne had
to have clearance to take 2 days of takeaway Methadone with him and then we
had to go to a clinic in Brisbane to get it all OKed  with letters etc. and
then hang round for ages to get more reference letters to get a methadone
pickup at a pharmacy near where we were staying.  It was certainly an
experience.  Maybe we have it easy in NZ.  While in Australia it cost $25 a
day for your dose (no money, no dose),  one pharmacy had this big set of
rules which included no partners, wives etc. allowed in the shop with the
person taking the dose, no sunglasses(?? is that to check your eyes or stop
you looking rough or something).  Also one chemist only supplied takeaways
in glass bottles which we had to pay $1. each for and then told us to wrap
them up carefully because under no condition would there be any replacement
if one broke.
We also have a friend that has a conviction for cocaine and he can’t go on
holiday anywhere so where does that leave people trying to get treatment in
other countries.   Would be interested to know how others get on or perhaps
they don’t have drug convictions and can travel.  Allison

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] How Effective is it?
Date: July 4, 2004 at 7:59:28 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/3/04 11:20:08 PM, CallieMimosa@aol.com writes:

In a message dated 7/3/2004 8:36:16 PM Central Daylight Time,
HSLotsof@aol.com writes:

Neurontin in addition to being a pain
medication and an adjunct pain medication is an antiepileptic.  The package
insert indicates  tapered withdrawal of the medication.  You may be able
to taper off  of neurontin if that becomes a barrier to ibogaine therapy and
then
determine if you want to be maintained on it after ibogaine  therapy.

Howard and Mike…
Let me begin by saying I am not a pharmacist or chemist  but I am a nurse
who works with elderly. A large number of my patients  experience chronic
pain
and Neurontin is freely prescribed to most of them.  Also, Charlie, my
boyfriend who has considerable pain, took 600 mg of Neurontin  four times
daily.
I have yet to see any withdrawal when Neurontin is stopped  without a taper.
I believe the taper indications are if the Neurontin is used to  control
seizures. Personally I have many questions as to the effectiveness of
Neurontin
on pain. I have yet to hear anyone say that the Neurontin worked as  far as
pain goes. I feel like it is one of those drugs that is over advertised  to
physicians by the drug companies.
Doctors jump at any new non addicting analgesics! Most really  worry about
writing scripts for narcotics. Charlie began Neurontin in 2000. He took it
up to 6 >months ago  at dose I stated above. It became a non formulary drug
with his insurance >and we could not afford it. We discussed this with his Doc
and the Doc said to >discontinue  it. He also  said that there has not been
overwhelming data that it helps >pain at  all. I would be interested in the
effects Ibogaine treatment has on  Neurontin.
Please take my statements as only observations and not backed  by any solid
proof! Until it is shown to not have adverse reactions after it is
discontinued abruptly >I would taper down if possible.

Dear Callie,

Thank you very much for your observations.  Ibogaine’s antiaddictive effects
were discovered by observations.  On the issue of pain management and
neurontin I cannot determine from observations if it is valuable as a stand alone
medication but, when taken with opioids it does enhance their action.  A comment
by Mike on this subject would be valuable.

Thanks again,

Howard

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From: “Mustafa izgi” <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Harm
Date: July 4, 2004 at 6:16:44 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello Everybody,
Is there anyone that who can tell me what is the harms of opiates; specialy Heroin and Morphine. Which body parts effects from this drugs. I don’t believe that brain cells damaged because of continious Morphine or Heroin use. I suppose reason of the additcet body ruins is life style and extra things like Diazepam, crack, cocain and  etc… And I thing deprivation times kiling the body.

There is many “scientific” works in the net but they are not trustable. Because docs and the scientist look to this subject from the outside. Please don’t get me wrong. I don’t mean opiate addiction is good. Being and addicted one itself to oppiate  is very bad enough.

Regards
FakePlacebo

From: “Allison Senepart” <paradisepaint@call south.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Hello all
Date: July 4, 2004 at 5:22:49 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I don’t think anyone gives a shit about you leaving the country.  Its the country you want to go into that presents the problem if you have convictions, especially drug related.  USA customs are real tough on visas etc as far as I understand, Australia also.  I think Britain has a time period, sort of stand down for so many years but am not entirely sure about that.  Allison

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Sunday, 4 July 2004 3:24:25 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Hello all

Hi Howard,

Hmmmm, maybe The Rolling Stones can give them a tip or two.  Some of them have or had a drug conviction and traveled.  Of course, Mick Jagger, who is knighted and now Sir Mick Jagger so he probably makes a phone call or two and skips customs altogether which I am sure Keith Richards appreciates.  Ya all have a good 4th of July.

BTW, does it mean if you convicted in Australia for a drug offence you can never leave the country?

HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 7/3/04 3:24:23 AM, paradisepaint@callsouth.net.nz writes:

>We also have a friend that has a conviction for cocaine and he can’t go
>on holiday anywhere so where does that leave people trying to get treatment
>in other countries. Would be interested to know how others get on or
perhaps
>they don’t have drug convictions and can travel. Allison

If you live beyond the law you must be honest. hahahaha

If you run our country you must be honest. hahahaah

(hahahaha) a Callie quote

Regards,

Howard

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From: “Allison Senepart” <paradisepaint@call south.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Hello all
Date: July 4, 2004 at 5:19:08 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Its my partner on the methadone, 85mgs a day for the last 5 or 6 years and probably about the same amount of years last time he was on the programme.  I dont know about Lortab.  Have heard of Tylenol but am not familiar with it either.  Is it used like methadone for detox???  or just another painkiller. (narcotic / non narcotic???)

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Sunday, 4 July 2004 3:02:38 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Hello all

Hi Allison,

Damn, $25 for met.  I remember being in Florida in a pain clinic and the doc gave me a Rx for methadone and it was like twenty-five cents for a 10 mg tab.  You could even get it cheaper if you looked around.  If I can buy them from the pharmacy for twenty-five cents that means the pharmacistis is paying ten cents or less.  Out of curiosity how much does a good shot of heroin cost?  Or a pill of Lortab.  The pharmacistis sounds like he needs a good asskicking.  With the understanding … never mind.  From what my friends tell me it cost $70 per week regardless of how much you take. The stuff is really dirt cheap, I can see people on the street trying to charge that much.

Years ago in Detroit, people were going to clinics and getting take home doses of 60 to 100 mg, selling it for $40 or $80 thus getting enough money to buy a damg good hit of heroin and having a few bucks left over.  I mean Woodward ave had more met sellers than hookers.  Well all good things must come to an end and it showed the cops busting the sellers.  The TV media loves it too.  But $25 dollars a day that should be illegal  That’s why I was wondering how much a good pack of heroin cost.  Also, maybe you can get your doc to give you other narcotics like Tylenol # 4 or Lortab and you can detrox much cheaper.  How much met are you taking if you don’t mind me asking?  Once I went from 60 mg of Lortab down to about 2 1/2 mg.  I did it nice and slow then the depression,
waekness and pain started again and I went up to my normal dose.  Now, that was one time in five years of taking it.  But met is the last thing I would want to kick.  I am not sure how the game is played over there but it would be nice if you could work out some kind of deal with your doc.

– JIM

Allison Senepart <paradisepaint@call>, UNEXPECTED_DATA_AFTER_ADDRESS@.SYNTAX-ERROR. wrote:
While in Australia it cost $25 a day for your dose (no money, no dose),

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From: Marko <marko@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] 4. July
Date: July 4, 2004 at 2:04:56 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Excellent choice, Sean! Michael Moore is one of the few (french?)
americans who still remember what “Liberte, Egalite, Fraternite” means.
And acts, too!
(Besides, he also knows what is moral ;-))

Marko

On Sun, 4 Jul 2004 UUSEAN@aol.com wrote:

Thanks Marco.  And a nice fourth to you.

I will celebrate by seeing Michael Moore’s new movie tomorrow night.

Cheers,
sean

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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] 4. July
Date: July 4, 2004 at 1:13:46 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks Marco.  And a nice fourth to you.

I will celebrate by seeing Michael Moore’s new movie tomorrow night.

Cheers,
sean

From: Marko <marko@mindvox.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] 4. July
Date: July 4, 2004 at 1:03:29 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

To everybody in here, celebrating 4th of July:

a survey in France showed that 78% of French (you remember them? They
gave you the Statue of Liberty, and Congress Fries is named by them)
would vote for John Kerry.

So, Merry 4th of July, and good luck!

Marko

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From: Marko <marko@mindvox.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] 04.July
Date: July 4, 2004 at 12:54:34 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] How Effective is it?
Date: July 4, 2004 at 12:18:30 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/3/2004 8:36:16 PM Central Daylight Time, HSLotsof@aol.com writes:
Neurontin in addition to being a pain
medication and an adjunct pain medication is an antiepileptic.  The package
insert indicates tapered withdrawal of the medication.  You may be able to taper
off of neurontin if that becomes a barrier to ibogaine therapy and then
determine if you want to be maintained on it after ibogaine therapy.

Howard and Mike…
Let me begin by saying I am not a pharmacist or chemist but I am a nurse who works with elderly. A large number of my patients experience chronic pain and Neurontin is freely prescribed to most of them. Also, Charlie, my boyfriend who has considerable pain, took 600 mg of Neurontin four times daily.
I have yet to see any withdrawal when Neurontin is stopped without a taper.
I believe the taper indications are if the Neurontin is used to control seizures.
Personally I have many questions as to the effectiveness of Neurontin on pain. I have yet to hear anyone say that the Neurontin worked as far as pain goes. I feel like it is one of those drugs that is over advertised to physicians by the drug companies.
Doctors jump at any new non addicting analgesics! Most really worry about writing scripts for narcotics.
Charlie began Neurontin in 2000. He took it up to 6 months ago at dose I stated above. It became a non formulary drug with his insurance and we could not afford it.
We discussed this with his Doc and the Doc said to discontinue it. He also said that there has not been overwhelming data that it helps pain at all.
I would be interested in the effects Ibogaine treatment has on Neurontin.
Please take my statements as only observations and not backed by any solid proof! Until it is shown to not have adverse reactions after it is discontinued abruptly I would taper down if possible.
Callie

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Forum or just an email list?
Date: July 3, 2004 at 10:49:30 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

There’s a huge archive I think its 15 or 16 thousand
messages? But its hard to pull messages out of it you
have to tell it to send digests which I managed to do
only once.

ibogaine-help@mindvox.com

Gives you the commands. I have managed to do it before
and find things but most of the time I forget how I
used it 😉

There’s the whole mindvox forum which goes up and
down, then people here want more privacy with a mail
list then someone else wants a web reader for the list
🙂 Its a huge list, you can get the archives there is
no web interface right now. I think that covered it?
😉

Carla B

— CrookedEye420@aol.com wrote:
So is there a forum that I can see old messages at
or is there just an email
list?  I belong to the list but never saw any forum
anywhere, so I was just
wondering if there was a place with archived posts
or anything?  Thanks!
Shawn

__________________________________
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From: CrookedEye420@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Forum or just an email list?
Date: July 3, 2004 at 10:11:34 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

So is there a forum that I can see old messages at or is there just an email
list?  I belong to the list but never saw any forum anywhere, so I was just
wondering if there was a place with archived posts or anything?  Thanks!
Shawn

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] How Effective is it?
Date: July 3, 2004 at 9:34:39 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/3/04 5:44:55 PM, mike2boys@msn.com writes:

<< Hello all my First post. I am Mike 32yrs old married 2 boys, I was injured
from work still on workers compensation and now on SSDI. I worked with Adults
with Autism  and a Adult male patients ran his head into my low back.
Causing nerve pain Back pain etc. had 4 surgeries.  I got hurt 1999   Now I am on
Duragesic patch 100ugh  oxycondone 20mg daily Neurontin 3600mg  also Xanax
ambein Ritilin.  Will Ibogaine therapy work?  How effective is Ibogaine on Fentanyl
seeing that Fentanyl is 100 times stronger then Morphine.  can someone send
me some data on it.  I need meds for pain  But I think I been on same meds so
long effectivness is running out.       Mike >>

Well Mike,

You have quite a mix of medications on board.  When you say will ibogaine
therapy work we have to look at exactly what can be expected from ibogaine
therapy.  First, we know that ibogaine will diminish opioid withdrawal.  While
fentanyl may be a 100 times stronger than morphine, you are receiving considerably
less of it as a dose.  Your fentanyl dose is in micrograms while your
oxycodone dose is in milligrams.  Ibogaine has generally shown itself to be effective
against short acting opioids such as morphine, heroin and oxycodone so in
general I anticipate it would also be effective for treating fentanyl withdrawal.
But theory is theory and the question remains if any provider has treated
fentanyl withdrawal with ibogaine.

Neurontin may be the greatest unknown and one question I am particularly
interested in as I anticipate that we will see more and more patients on
opioid/neurontin therapy.  Ibogaine is known to exert an antiseizure effect but, I
think we are left with a really big question mark as to ibogaine/neurontin
interaction and possible adverse effects and to the secondary question of whether
ibogaine will treat neurontin withdrawal.  Neurontin in addition to being a pain
medication and an adjunct pain medication is an antiepileptic.  The package
insert indicates tapered withdrawal of the medication.  You may be able to taper
off of neurontin if that becomes a barrier to ibogaine therapy and then
determine if you want to be maintained on it after ibogaine therapy.

It is known that ibogaine will reduce both tolerance and dependence to
opioids as CrookedEye420 indicates in his post to the list below. In other words, it
will increase the effectiveness of opioids you take for pain management.

In a message dated 7/3/04 6:28:46 PM, CrookedEye420@aol.com writes:

<< Well, I am not sure how effective it is with all those specific drugs, but
I
know it could help at least reduce your tolerance.  If you are trying to get
totally clean, then I’d say Iboga is a great way, but for someone with pain
it
may help reduce your tolerance but your tolerance will build back up.  I’d
consult some pain management facilities and explain your problem that your
meds
are losing effectiveness and that you’re worried about addiction.  Iboga may
help but your pain will still probably be there unless the root of the
problem
is fixed.  BTW, I’m no expert but these are just some things I thought of. >>

So you will as indicated, most likely have your tolerance to opioids reduced.
The reduction may be based on the number of ibogaine treatments that are
given and the dose.  I really wish we had an ibogaine research facility in a
hospital.  This would allow you to be treated in a dose escalation manner with
careful monitoring as to your safety.  If you have no medical disorders that
would prohibit ibogaine therapy you would still have to be carefully monitored for
withdrawal signs of all of the medications your are currently taking.

In CrookedEye420’s post he uses the word addiction but, I am uncertain that
the criteria for addiction is indicated by Mike.  So, are we viewing a chemical
dependence issue or a substance related disorder issue?  Substance-related
disorders are commonly referred to as addiction, a term that many are concerned
about because of the stigma and prejudice that is attached to that term by
both users and society.

The final ibogaine effects that should prove beneficial, barring adverse
medical events, are ibogaine’s psychotherapeutic effects that would most likely
leave you with a sense of well being and more comfortable with whatever
medication regimen you required to maintain.  There are a lot of questions involved in
treating you with ibogaine:  both issues of safety and effect.

There would be a lot of responsibility in treating a subject with as many
different drugs on board as you have.  Your treatment provider may have to make
decision to continue one or more medications in moderated doses relating to
your ibogaine treatment(s).  Treatment of a subject like yourself in my opinion
will require a great deal of cooperation between subject and provider and a lot
of consideration on your part to proceed.

I believe the ritalin would be the least problematic of the medications.  It
may simply be discontinued during ibogaine therapy.  However, you do not
mention the doses you are receiving of ambien, xanax or ritalin.

A question to you Mike is, what do you want ibogaine to accomplish for you?

Howard

Howard S. Lotsof
President
Dora Weiner Foundation
46 Oxford Place
Staten Island, NY 10301
USA
dir tel, 1 718 442-2754
dir fax, 1 718 442-1957
email, dwf123@earthlink.net

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From: CrookedEye420@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] How Effective is it?
Date: July 3, 2004 at 7:27:58 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Well, I am not sure how effective it is with all those specific drugs, but I know it could help at least reduce your tolerance.  If you are trying to get totally clean, then I’d say Iboga is a great way, but for someone with pain it may help reduce your tolerance but your tolerance will build back up.  I’d consult some pain management facilities and explain your problem that your meds are losing effectiveness and that you’re worried about addiction.  Iboga may help but your pain will still probably be there unless the root of the problem is fixed.  BTW, I’m no expert but these are just some things I thought of.

In a message dated 7/3/2004 6:44:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mike2boys@msn.com writes:
Hello all my First post. I am Mike 32yrs old married 2 boys, I was injured from work still on workers compensation and now on SSDI. I worked with Adults with Autism  and a Adult male patients ran his head into my low back.  Causing nerve pain Back pain etc. had 4 surgeries.  I got hurt 1999   Now I am on Duragesic patch 100ugh  oxycondone 20mg daily Neurontin 3600mg  also Xanax ambein Ritilin.  Will Ibogaine therapy work?  How effective is Ibogaine on Fentanyl   seeing that Fentanyl is 100 times stronger then Morphine.  can someone send me some data on it.  I need meds for pain  But I think I been on same meds so long effectivness is running out.       Mike

From: “Michael Maxey” <mike2boys@msn.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] How Effective is it?
Date: July 3, 2004 at 6:43:05 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello all my First post. I am Mike 32yrs old married 2 boys, I was injured from work still on workers compensation and now on SSDI. I worked with Adults with Autism  and a Adult male patients ran his head into my low back.  Causing nerve pain Back pain etc. had 4 surgeries.  I got hurt 1999   Now I am on Duragesic patch 100ugh  oxycondone 20mg daily Neurontin 3600mg  also Xanax ambein Ritilin.  Will Ibogaine therapy work?  How effective is Ibogaine on Fentanyl   seeing that Fentanyl is 100 times stronger then Morphine.  can someone send me some data on it.  I need meds for pain  But I think I been on same meds so long effectivness is running out.       Mike
—– Original Message —–
From: tomo7@starband.net
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 10:16 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Hello all- Clarification

> Howard and Doug:

This post is to rectify the published misunderstanding in Doug’
s posts. The cascade of family medical crises that occurred between our
plans to administer a session and his foreign travel plans must have
scrambled his side of the understanding between us. He has now paid for
and will receive an effective session when his schedule and ours will
permit. No confiscation of these expenses occurred. It was mutually agreed
upon that the original timing would not work because of family obligations
and he essentially took a “Rain Check” for his session.

With the stress of concern for his family members being ill and in a
hospital, and the typical tightrope of balancing pain meds and personal
comfort, I can sure understand miscommunication happening. I have
clarified this with him just now, and I understand that his family will
get their deserved vacation in as planned. Inner reflection between
himself and Bwiti will be more effective after some stress reduction as
well.

I offered to prescribe a no travel rule to help recoup the travel ticket
costs for his family, but they are feeling up to it now, so that isn’t
needed. I’m sure he’ll get his “money’s worth” on as many levels as he
will be able to imagine.

Dr. Tom

> In a message dated 7/2/04 9:12:06 AM, doug@northrup.us writes:
>
>>I’ve been reading posts for a while now.  I just had a terrible
>> experience.
>>
>>I had made the decision that I was going to go ahead with Ibogaine and
>> had made the arrangements and wouldn’t you know I had a family
>> emergency? My wife ended up in the hospital with Spinal Meningitis.
>> Good grief.. Anyway, I had to cancel all my arrangements.  I had hoped
>> to be Morphine free before my family vacation to Australia.
>
>>We’ve saved all our married life (17 years) for a trip to Australia.
>> Now we have the $$ plus a little extra. The “extra” was so that I could
>> enter Ibogaine treatment.  Now, with that $$ gone, I don’t have any
>> hope that I’ll ever get myself detoxed from Morphine.
>
>>The disappointment is tremendous…. almost devastating.  When you have
>> your sights set on something like getting free of an addiction like
>> this and then everything falls apart, its the most discouraging thing
>> ever.
>
>>When I get back from my vacation (which is already paid for – can’t get
>> a refund now since my wife is certified to travel by her doctors) I’ll
>> try and save again for another attempt at Ibogaine treatment.
>
>>I wish I could just go to the doctor and have them give me Ibogaine
>> treatment and have it done with.  This all sucks…..especially that
>> I’m out significant $$’s due to Ibogaine treatment that never occurred.
>>  I
> haven’t
>>worked since May 2003 due to back problems, had surgery july 2003 and
>> have been in pain in addition to taking morphine for pain (which by now
>> has stopped working). I’m not willing to take more morphine for my pain
>> as it makes me very ill.
>
>>I’m broke, hooked, discouraged, and I’m supposed to “have a good time”
>> on my vacation. Yea, right.
>
> Doug,
>
> I am a bit confused by your message.  Are you saying that your wife who
> was  recently hospitalized for spinal meningitis has been certified to
> travel by her  doctor?  If so why?
>
> Concerning the lack of funds to seek ibogaine treatment is it that those
>  founds have been used for the medical expenses of your wife?
>
> I am a patient advocate.  If you would like to discuss these matters
> email  your telephone number <hslotsof@aol.com> or call me.
>
> Howard
>
> Howard S. Lotsof
> President
> Dora Weiner Foundation
> 46 Oxford Place
> Staten Island, NY 10301
> USA
> dir tel, 1 718 442-2754
> dir fax, 1 718 442-1957
> email, dwf123@earthlink.net
>
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> <)[%]
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From: CrookedEye420@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Hello all
Date: July 3, 2004 at 5:10:47 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I am in the US, so this may not be as easy for you.  But I got a passport with a felony for drugs and I know I can’t travel into Canada but as far as I know, most other places are okay.

In a message dated 7/3/2004 5:06:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time, CrookedEye420@aol.com writes:
I am a convicted felon for heroin and crack cocaine and I flew to Amsterdam, no problem.  Canada on the otherhand is a no-no, for felons.

In a message dated 7/3/2004 4:24:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time, paradisepaint@callsouth.net.nz writes:
Your message jumped out at me.  My partner also had back problems, has had 2 major operations and then after all the years recovering + using loads of opiates, morphine, poppies etc.  Finally getting it together on the Methadone and then he broke his ankle and it all fell to bits again.
We talked of a holiday in Australia for 16 years but the money kept disappearing up our arms etc.  We have finally had our holiday (2 weeks in sunny Queensland) but had a few probs with customs etc.  because Wayne had to have clearance to take 2 days of takeaway Methadone with him and then we had to go to a clinic in Brisbane to get it all OKed  with letters etc. and then hang round for ages to get more reference letters to get a methadone pickup at a pharmacy near where we were staying.  It was certainly an experience.  Maybe we have it easy in NZ.  While in Australia it cost $25 a day for your dose (no money, no dose),  one pharmacy had this big set of rules which included no partners, wives etc. allowed in the shop with the person taking the dose, no sunglasses(?? is that to check your eyes or stop you looking rough or something).  Also one chemist only supplied takeaways in glass bottles which we had to pay $1. each for and then told us to wrap them up carefully because under no condition would there be any replacement if one broke.
We also have a friend that has a conviction for cocaine and he can’t go on holiday anywhere so where does that leave people trying to get treatment in other countries.   Would be interested to know how others get on or perhaps they don’t have drug convictions and can travel.  Allison

From: CrookedEye420@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Hello all
Date: July 3, 2004 at 5:05:32 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I am a convicted felon for heroin and crack cocaine and I flew to Amsterdam, no problem.  Canada on the otherhand is a no-no, for felons.

In a message dated 7/3/2004 4:24:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time, paradisepaint@callsouth.net.nz writes:
Your message jumped out at me.  My partner also had back problems, has had 2 major operations and then after all the years recovering + using loads of opiates, morphine, poppies etc.  Finally getting it together on the Methadone and then he broke his ankle and it all fell to bits again.
We talked of a holiday in Australia for 16 years but the money kept disappearing up our arms etc.  We have finally had our holiday (2 weeks in sunny Queensland) but had a few probs with customs etc.  because Wayne had to have clearance to take 2 days of takeaway Methadone with him and then we had to go to a clinic in Brisbane to get it all OKed  with letters etc. and then hang round for ages to get more reference letters to get a methadone pickup at a pharmacy near where we were staying.  It was certainly an experience.  Maybe we have it easy in NZ.  While in Australia it cost $25 a day for your dose (no money, no dose),  one pharmacy had this big set of rules which included no partners, wives etc. allowed in the shop with the person taking the dose, no sunglasses(?? is that to check your eyes or stop you looking rough or something).  Also one chemist only supplied takeaways in glass bottles which we had to pay $1. each for and then told us to wrap them up carefully because under no condition would there be any replacement if one broke.
We also have a friend that has a conviction for cocaine and he can’t go on holiday anywhere so where does that leave people trying to get treatment in other countries.   Would be interested to know how others get on or perhaps they don’t have drug convictions and can travel.  Allison

From: Nowwarat@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] ibogaine and age
Date: July 3, 2004 at 4:17:46 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I notice ibogaine used by young druggies or recnet meth patients. How well does ibogaine work for someone on an over 100mg. daiy dose , and using it for over ten or fifteen years?

Not to change the subject but I pay around $1.00 for 28 mgs. of meth paid in cash. It used to cost almost 4 times as much.

And speaking of pain anyone know about a Dr.Sarno M.D and his MInd -Body Connection book that says most chronic pain is from repressed anger seeking escape?

Nowwarat

From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Hello all
Date: July 3, 2004 at 11:23:50 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Howard,

Hmmmm, maybe The Rolling Stones can give them a tip or two.  Some of them have or had a drug conviction and traveled.  Of course, Mick Jagger, who is knighted and now Sir Mick Jagger so he probably makes a phone call or two and skips customs altogether which I am sure Keith Richards appreciates.  Ya all have a good 4th of July.

BTW, does it mean if you convicted in Australia for a drug offence you can never leave the country?

HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 7/3/04 3:24:23 AM, paradisepaint@callsouth.net.nz writes:

>We also have a friend that has a conviction for cocaine and he can’t go
>on holiday anywhere so where does that leave people trying to get treatment
>in other countries. Would be interested to know how others get on or
perhaps
>they don’t have drug convictions and can travel. Allison

If you live beyond the law you must be honest. hahahaha

If you run our country you must be honest. hahahaah

(hahahaha) a Callie quote

Regards,

Howard

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Hello all
Date: July 3, 2004 at 11:02:03 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Allison,

Damn, $25 for met.  I remember being in Florida in a pain clinic and the doc gave me a Rx for methadone and it was like twenty-five cents for a 10 mg tab.  You could even get it cheaper if you looked around.  If I can buy them from the pharmacy for twenty-five cents that means the pharmacistis is paying ten cents or less.  Out of curiosity how much does a good shot of heroin cost?  Or a pill of Lortab.  The pharmacistis sounds like he needs a good asskicking.  With the understanding … never mind.  From what my friends tell me it cost $70 per week regardless of how much you take. The stuff is really dirt cheap, I can see people on the street trying to charge that much.

Years ago in Detroit, people were going to clinics and getting take home doses of 60 to 100 mg, selling it for $40 or $80 thus getting enough money to buy a damg good hit of heroin and having a few bucks left over.  I mean Woodward ave had more met sellers than hookers.  Well all good things must come to an end and it showed the cops busting the sellers.  The TV media loves it too.  But $25 dollars a day that should be illegal  That’s why I was wondering how much a good pack of heroin cost.  Also, maybe you can get your doc to give you other narcotics like Tylenol # 4 or Lortab and you can detrox much cheaper.  How much met are you taking if you don’t mind me asking?  Once I went from 60 mg of Lortab down to about 2 1/2 mg.  I did it nice and slow then the depression,
waekness and pain started again and I went up to my normal dose.  Now, that was one time in five years of taking it.  But met is the last thing I would want to kick.  I am not sure how the game is played over there but it would be nice if you could work out some kind of deal with your doc.

– JIM

Allison Senepart <paradisepaint@call>, UNEXPECTED_DATA_AFTER_ADDRESS@.SYNTAX-ERROR. wrote:
While in Australia it cost $25 a day for your dose (no money, no dose),

____________________________________________________
IncrediMail – Email has finally evolved – Click Here

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Hello all
Date: July 3, 2004 at 10:27:36 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/3/04 3:24:23 AM, paradisepaint@callsouth.net.nz writes:

We also have a friend that has a conviction for cocaine and he can’t go
on holiday anywhere so where does that leave people trying to get treatment
in other countries.   Would be interested to know how others get on or
perhaps
they don’t have drug convictions and can travel.  Allison

If you live beyond the law you must be honest. hahahaha

If you run our country you must be honest.  hahahaah

(hahahaha) a Callie quote

Regards,

Howard

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] (OT) Re: [ibogaine] Price on Ibogaine treatment
Date: July 3, 2004 at 10:09:19 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Hannah
Out of curiosity and in fairly good cheer I would like to ask you, Why
is your mail set to get a receipt from other people upon their getting your
email? What is the purpose of that feature and why would anyone use it?
Just curious here, as I myself have never once ok’d the sending of one of
those receipts to anyone at all ever, and have always wondered why people
would bother setting that feature on their email unless it was a specific
email to a specific person. But each and every email? Egad!
Seriously, I’m a little grouchy and befuddled feeling this morning,
trying to shake off the cobwebs before going to jam this afternoon, so I
apologize up front if I sound snippy, but I would like to know why you
yourself have that setting set in your email.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Hannah Clay
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 6:06 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Price on Ibogaine treatment

“Whenever I came out of a meeting I had a stronger craving than ever.”

Totally!  Same for me too.  I’d go to NA with the best intentions n come out
not being able to get H off my mind, just ‘needing a hit’!

—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 2:32 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Price on Ibogaine treatment

Hi Julian,

Thank you for the kind words.  Log in next week and I will be babbleing
about how they used to hang witches years ago.  Speaking of witches, Al
Capone, Luchanno and Meyer Lanskie and the mafia boys sold alcohol (and
killed people too) but they never sold to a 10 year old kid.  Yea, they were
rough and tough and killers but still moral enough to leave the kids alone.
Something the gangsters of today should learn.  OK, all done – LOL.  Ya all
have a nice weekend.

Sapphirestardus@aol.com wrote:
Jim you couldn’t babble too much, you can’t babble enough when it comes to
this issue. I mean i go over this shit in my head every single day! I’m sure
I repeat myself with some people when I discuss this shit BUT it really is
sickening the way a nation as great as we can be and have been, is so fucked
up when it comes to certain moral issues. Unfortunately we have been this
way throughout history. Human beings  generally speaking just haven’t
learned that you can’t litigate moral issues. We just can’t let it be. There
are countless examples of severe repercussions from acting the way we do but
history keeps repeating itself because we refuse to learn! You just keep on
‘babbling’. I LOVE IT!!

Regards,

Julian

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From: “AG” <adamg@013.net.il>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Adam
Date: July 3, 2004 at 11:02:11 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

errr….. why Adam -subject line..?

Did I miss something… been away awhile….

AG

PS As my nudist triplet stepsisters used to say, don’t show too much ass, don’t show too little.

—– Original Message —–
From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 9:37 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Adam

Hello Callie! How are you doing? I hate to rehash old stuff but I feel guilty about something. I know I apologized about my initial letters and attitude but I’ve been going through all my e-mail to reduce some of the nonessential letters or redundant ones and I came across a couple of the letters I sent. I don’t know if that’s all of them, but the couple I read were…I don’t know, disgusting! I had told you I was detoxing badly but the reason for my memory loss had to be from the halcion/xanax I was taking. Initially all I knew was I wrote something very bad but now that I actually found the letters, I am, well I feel terrible. One more time: I am so very sorry for the shit I wrote. I really don’t recognize it for whatever or whomever I was at the time isn’t the real me, or the ‘me’ that I wish to be. Oh my God! I don’t know how anyone even wants to talk with me? Those letters were….FUCKED UP!! Sorry……..
Julian

From: “Hannah Clay” <spaglet@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Price on Ibogaine treatment
Date: July 3, 2004 at 6:06:56 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“Whenever I came out of a meeting I had a stronger craving than ever.”

Totally!  Same for me too.  I’d go to NA with the best intentions n come out not being able to get H off my mind, just ‘needing a hit’!

—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 2:32 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Price on Ibogaine treatment

Hi Julian,

Thank you for the kind words.  Log in next week and I will be babbleing about how they used to hang witches years ago.  Speaking of witches, Al Capone, Luchanno and Meyer Lanskie and the mafia boys sold alcohol (and killed people too) but they never sold to a 10 year old kid.  Yea, they were rough and tough and killers but still moral enough to leave the kids alone.  Something the gangsters of today should learn.  OK, all done – LOL.  Ya all have a nice weekend.

Sapphirestardus@aol.com wrote:
Jim you couldn’t babble too much, you can’t babble enough when it comes to this issue. I mean i go over this shit in my head every single day! I’m sure I repeat myself with some people when I discuss this shit BUT it really is sickening the way a nation as great as we can be and have been, is so fucked up when it comes to certain moral issues. Unfortunately we have been this way throughout history. Human beings  generally speaking just haven’t learned that you can’t litigate moral issues. We just can’t let it be. There are countless examples of severe repercussions from acting the way we do but history keeps repeating itself because we refuse to learn! You just keep on ‘babbling’. I LOVE IT!!

Regards,
Julian

Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – Send 10MB messages!

From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: July 3, 2004 at 6:02:37 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Also when I am high and around my friends/family I feel uncomfortable.  Even
though a shot now doesn’t really do anything but keep me well-I don’t gouch
out anyway.  I just feel so unedge cos I know they all hate it.  I get so
paranoid I make it obvious!  Overcompensating!

So, I avoid them.

My friends who do gear?  Its easy to spend time with them!

Don’t feel bad Callie,
LOL Loop
—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 9:43 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe

I hate to say it but evidently loved dope more than spending time with
them.<

This sucks that you can even suspect this to be the case Callie- it’s not,
in my own opinion, that addicted people (you and me and so many others)
love
their drugs more than their loved ones, but rather than they are forced to
spend so much time obtaining the drugs that help them feel “normal” or at
least comfortable in their skins/minds/etc, that they don’t get to spend
as
much time as they’d like with their kids/partners/parents/etc. It’s not
“love” of our drugs driving us, at least not in my situation, and never
was-even as much as I do “love” drugs. If we were able to obtain our drugs
legally, sans hassle, we wouldn’t ever have to even think this is the
case-
as methadone surely proves to you.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 7:18 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe

Julian, Before I learned of Ibogaine, I had resigned myself to the fact
that
I would be a lifetime Methadone Maintenance client at some Methadone
clinic!
Now, to me this was a relief as I was headed straight to prison. I had
developed such a habit that illegally obtaining my narcotics by fraud was
the only way I could afford them! Methadone was literally a life saver to
me! I will be forever grateful and I hope the Ibogaine treatment(s) ‘cure’
me but if they do not I will not ever go back to my prior use.

Like I said before, I have no doubt I could detox but it is the
psychological shit that has me all fucked up!!!
I hate the way I feel without narcotics……I love the euphoria and mood
boost I have always obtained from opiates.

My son visited last Monday. He is 25 and it was the first time I have seen
him since his wedding last June. He and his wife live in Texas.
I got so uncomfortable the couple of days leading up to his visit that I
was
seeking extra Methadone to take the edge off!
I really hurt my boys during their childhood. I hate to say it but
evidently
loved dope more than spending time with them.
Now it hurts me to the core to look back on the selfish choices I made. I
know it hurts them too. They have been able to move on but I have not! The
guilt eats me up!! There is not a day that goes by that I do not feel that
gut wrenching shame of my past behaviors!
Their Dad is a good man. I could not have picked a better father for my
children. He raised them in my absence. Needless to say he hates my guts.
That is probably putting it lightly! He does not understand why they love
me
and I really don’t know why they do either.
Oh, they have issues I am sure! They say they have gotten past it but I
really don’t see how they could.
Anyway…..you know that if I chose the drugs over my children that I will
continue to choose them! I can’t not choose them. Sad….huh?

So brother, I know how you feel! Wish I had the answers! Like I said
before….if I ever get them You folks will get them too!
Callie

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From: “Allison Senepart” <paradisepaint@call south.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Hello all
Date: July 3, 2004 at 4:22:12 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Your message jumped out at me.  My partner also had back problems, has had 2 major operations and then after all the years recovering + using loads of opiates, morphine, poppies etc.  Finally getting it together on the Methadone and then he broke his ankle and it all fell to bits again.
We talked of a holiday in Australia for 16 years but the money kept disappearing up our arms etc.  We have finally had our holiday (2 weeks in sunny Queensland) but had a few probs with customs etc.  because Wayne had to have clearance to take 2 days of takeaway Methadone with him and then we had to go to a clinic in Brisbane to get it all OKed  with letters etc. and then hang round for ages to get more reference letters to get a methadone pickup at a pharmacy near where we were staying.  It was certainly an experience.  Maybe we have it easy in NZ.  While in Australia it cost $25 a day for your dose (no money, no dose),  one pharmacy had this big set of rules which included no partners, wives etc. allowed in the shop with the person taking the dose, no sunglasses(?? is that to check your eyes or stop you looking rough or something).  Also one chemist only supplied takeaways in glass bottles which we had to pay $1. each for and then told us to wrap them up carefully because under no condition would there be any replacement if one broke.
We also have a friend that has a conviction for cocaine and he can’t go on holiday anywhere so where does that leave people trying to get treatment in other countries.   Would be interested to know how others get on or perhaps they don’t have drug convictions and can travel.  Allison

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Saturday, 3 July 2004 2:11:12 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Hello all

Hello all,

I’ve been reading posts for a while now.  I just had a terrible experience.  I had made the decision that I was going to go ahead with Ibogaine and had made the arrangements and wouldn’t you know I had a family emergency? My wife ended up in the hospital with Spinal Meningitis.  Good grief.. Anyway, I had to cancel all my arrangements.  I had hoped to be Morphine free before my family vacation to Australia.

We’ve saved all our married life (17 years) for a trip to Australia. Now we have the $$ plus a little extra. The “extra” was so that I could enter Ibogaine treatment.  Now, with that $$ gone, I don’t have any hope that I’ll ever get myself detoxed from Morphine.

The disappointment is tremendous…. almost devastating.  When you have your sights set on something like getting free of an addiction like this and then everything falls apart, its the most discouraging thing ever.

When I get back from my vacation (which is already paid for – can’t get a refund now since my wife is certified to travel by her doctors) I’ll try and save again for another attempt at Ibogaine treatment.

I wish I could just go to the doctor and have them give me Ibogaine treatment and have it done with.  This all sucks…..especially that I’m out significant $$’s due to Ibogaine treatment that never occurred.  I haven’t worked since May 2003 due to back problems, had surgery july 2003 and have been in pain in addition to taking morphine for pain (which by now has stopped working). I’m not willing to take more morphine for my pain as it makes me very ill.

I’m broke, hooked, discouraged, and I’m supposed to “have a good time” on my vacation. Yea, right.

____________________________________________________
IncrediMail – Email has finally evolved – Click Here

From: “Doug Northrup” <doug@northrup.us>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Hello all- Clarification
Date: July 3, 2004 at 12:09:49 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The day I called off my treatment I barely remember.  In my entire life I’ve
never had so much stress.  My wife was in the hospital, my son was having
nausea and stomach cramps and both kids (i have twin 9 year olds) slept with
me that night. I couldn’t go to sleep that night. The most awful horrifying
experience happened to me, I had a panic attack that had me paralized.  I’m
not surprised I didn’t remember any telephone conversations.  I think when a
person make a “mental step” (committment) to experience Ibogaine and rid
themselves of an awful drug like Morphine, its like losing a loved one when
thing don’t work out like you had hoped.  I feel like I’m mourning.  Yes,
now I understand that I haven’t “lost” any $$ with regard to my Ibogaine
treatment (that is a HUGE relief!!!!!!!!!  🙂  ), now the big
disappointment is that I have to wait. 🙁  I am so tired of Morphine making
me feel sick. It used to stop my severe pain, now it just make me sick.

Happy 4th of July to all.

Doug

P.S. It is comforting to know that there are people out there (Howard & Dr.
Tom) who truly care about how painful physical dependency can be. My prayers
go out to you 2.  Thank you for caring… really. 🙂

Howard and Doug:

This post is to rectify the published misunderstanding in Doug’
s posts. The cascade of family medical crises that occurred between our
plans to administer a session and his foreign travel plans must have
scrambled his side of the understanding between us. He has now paid for
and will receive an effective session when his schedule and ours will
permit. No confiscation of these expenses occurred. It was mutually agreed
upon that the original timing would not work because of family obligations
and he essentially took a “Rain Check” for his session.

With the stress of concern for his family members being ill and in a
hospital, and the typical tightrope of balancing pain meds and personal
comfort, I can sure understand miscommunication happening. I have
clarified this with him just now, and I understand that his family will
get their deserved vacation in as planned. Inner reflection between
himself and Bwiti will be more effective after some stress reduction as
well.

I offered to prescribe a no travel rule to help recoup the travel ticket
costs for his family, but they are feeling up to it now, so that isn’t
needed. I’m sure he’ll get his “money’s worth” on as many levels as he
will be able to imagine.

Dr. Tom

In a message dated 7/2/04 9:12:06 AM, doug@northrup.us writes:

I’ve been reading posts for a while now. I just had a terrible
experience.

I had made the decision that I was going to go ahead with Ibogaine and
had made the arrangements and wouldn’t you know I had a family
emergency? My wife ended up in the hospital with Spinal Meningitis.
Good grief.. Anyway, I had to cancel all my arrangements. I had hoped
to be Morphine free before my family vacation to Australia.

We’ve saved all our married life (17 years) for a trip to Australia.
Now we have the $$ plus a little extra. The “extra” was so that I could
enter Ibogaine treatment. Now, with that $$ gone, I don’t have any
hope that I’ll ever get myself detoxed from Morphine.

The disappointment is tremendous…. almost devastating. When you have
your sights set on something like getting free of an addiction like
this and then everything falls apart, its the most discouraging thing
ever.

When I get back from my vacation (which is already paid for – can’t get
a refund now since my wife is certified to travel by her doctors) I’ll
try and save again for another attempt at Ibogaine treatment.

I wish I could just go to the doctor and have them give me Ibogaine
treatment and have it done with. This all sucks…..especially that
I’m out significant $$’s due to Ibogaine treatment that never occurred.
I
haven’t
worked since May 2003 due to back problems, had surgery july 2003 and
have been in pain in addition to taking morphine for pain (which by now
has stopped working). I’m not willing to take more morphine for my pain
as it makes me very ill.

I’m broke, hooked, discouraged, and I’m supposed to “have a good time”
on my vacation. Yea, right.

Doug,

I am a bit confused by your message. Are you saying that your wife who
was recently hospitalized for spinal meningitis has been certified to
travel by her doctor? If so why?

Concerning the lack of funds to seek ibogaine treatment is it that those
founds have been used for the medical expenses of your wife?

I am a patient advocate. If you would like to discuss these matters
email your telephone number <hslotsof@aol.com> or call me.

Howard

Howard S. Lotsof
President
Dora Weiner Foundation
46 Oxford Place
Staten Island, NY 10301
USA
dir tel, 1 718 442-2754
dir fax, 1 718 442-1957
email, dwf123@earthlink.net

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<)[%]

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Hello all- Clarification
Date: July 2, 2004 at 11:42:11 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/2/2004 9:17:40 PM Central Daylight Time, tomo7@starband.net writes:
Howard and Doug:

This post is to rectify the published misunderstanding in Doug’
s posts. The cascade of family medical crises that occurred between our
plans to administer a session and his foreign travel plans must have
scrambled his side of the understanding between us. He has now paid for
and will receive an effective session when his schedule and ours will
permit. No confiscation of these expenses occurred. It was mutually agreed
upon that the original timing would not work because of family obligations
and he essentially took a “Rain Check” for his session.

With the stress of concern for his family members being ill and in a
hospital, and the typical tightrope of balancing pain meds and personal
comfort, I can sure understand miscommunication happening. I have
clarified this with him just now, and I understand that his family will
get their deserved vacation in as planned. Inner reflection between
himself and Bwiti will be more effective after some stress reduction as
well.

I offered to prescribe a no travel rule to help recoup the travel ticket
costs for his family, but they are feeling up to it now, so that isn’t
needed. I’m sure he’ll get his “money’s worth” on as many levels as he
will be able to imagine.

Dr. Tom

YAY Dr. Tom!
Howard…..you rock!!
Doug….good luck in your treatment adventure! I am very happy to see it is going to work out!
Doug’s wife…..Hope you have a speedy recovery!
Callie

From: <tomo7@starband.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Hello all- Clarification
Date: July 2, 2004 at 10:16:56 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Howard and Doug:

This post is to rectify the published misunderstanding in Doug’
s posts. The cascade of family medical crises that occurred between our
plans to administer a session and his foreign travel plans must have
scrambled his side of the understanding between us. He has now paid for
and will receive an effective session when his schedule and ours will
permit. No confiscation of these expenses occurred. It was mutually agreed
upon that the original timing would not work because of family obligations
and he essentially took a “Rain Check” for his session.

With the stress of concern for his family members being ill and in a
hospital, and the typical tightrope of balancing pain meds and personal
comfort, I can sure understand miscommunication happening. I have
clarified this with him just now, and I understand that his family will
get their deserved vacation in as planned. Inner reflection between
himself and Bwiti will be more effective after some stress reduction as
well.

I offered to prescribe a no travel rule to help recoup the travel ticket
costs for his family, but they are feeling up to it now, so that isn’t
needed. I’m sure he’ll get his “money’s worth” on as many levels as he
will be able to imagine.

Dr. Tom

In a message dated 7/2/04 9:12:06 AM, doug@northrup.us writes:

I’ve been reading posts for a while now.  I just had a terrible
experience.

I had made the decision that I was going to go ahead with Ibogaine and
had made the arrangements and wouldn’t you know I had a family
emergency? My wife ended up in the hospital with Spinal Meningitis.
Good grief.. Anyway, I had to cancel all my arrangements.  I had hoped
to be Morphine free before my family vacation to Australia.

We’ve saved all our married life (17 years) for a trip to Australia.
Now we have the $$ plus a little extra. The “extra” was so that I could
enter Ibogaine treatment.  Now, with that $$ gone, I don’t have any
hope that I’ll ever get myself detoxed from Morphine.

The disappointment is tremendous…. almost devastating.  When you have
your sights set on something like getting free of an addiction like
this and then everything falls apart, its the most discouraging thing
ever.

When I get back from my vacation (which is already paid for – can’t get
a refund now since my wife is certified to travel by her doctors) I’ll
try and save again for another attempt at Ibogaine treatment.

I wish I could just go to the doctor and have them give me Ibogaine
treatment and have it done with.  This all sucks…..especially that
I’m out significant $$’s due to Ibogaine treatment that never occurred.
I
haven’t
worked since May 2003 due to back problems, had surgery july 2003 and
have been in pain in addition to taking morphine for pain (which by now
has stopped working). I’m not willing to take more morphine for my pain
as it makes me very ill.

I’m broke, hooked, discouraged, and I’m supposed to “have a good time”
on my vacation. Yea, right.

Doug,

I am a bit confused by your message.  Are you saying that your wife who
was  recently hospitalized for spinal meningitis has been certified to
travel by her  doctor?  If so why?

Concerning the lack of funds to seek ibogaine treatment is it that those
founds have been used for the medical expenses of your wife?

I am a patient advocate.  If you would like to discuss these matters
email  your telephone number <hslotsof@aol.com> or call me.

Howard

Howard S. Lotsof
President
Dora Weiner Foundation
46 Oxford Place
Staten Island, NY 10301
USA
dir tel, 1 718 442-2754
dir fax, 1 718 442-1957
email, dwf123@earthlink.net

/]=———————————————————————=[\

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<)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Off Topic……3-D fun!
Date: July 2, 2004 at 8:39:20 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.zefrank.com/snowflake/

This is off topic BUT……..smoke a doobie and play with the 3-D graphics of above link!
Happy 4th!
Peace on earth!
Callie

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: July 2, 2004 at 7:42:12 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Jim,

After twenty damn years of AA/NA, I know that the 12 steps are not the way for met to go.  I have no intention of returning to meetings.  I really cannot stand them at this point and they did me no good, maybe hurt.

As for therapy, I do not expect any counselor to “get me clean.”  That’s my job.  After all these years of treatments, meetings, “relapses,,,” etc., I really would like to sit down and talk about where I am now, and where I hope to go.  I also fully intend to try ibogaine treatment.

So thanks again for your refreshing frankness.  After years of the false sweetness of 12 step meetings, it is a breath of fresh air.

Sean

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: [ibogaine] Some drugs can have serious side-effects
Date: July 2, 2004 at 2:26:46 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Friday, 2 July 2004 

More than 10,000 Britons may be dying each year because of bad reactions to medication, a study suggests. 
Researchers at the University of Liverpool assessed 18,820 people admitted to two hospitals in Merseyside between November 2001 and April 2002. 

They found that one in 16 had been admitted because of an adverse reaction to drugs such as aspirin. Some 28 died. 

Writing in the British Medical Journal, they said nationally the number of deaths could top 10,000 a year. 

The vast majority of people on medication do not suffer side-effects. 

Millions of people take medicines every year without experiencing any problems. 

Adverse reaction 

The researchers found that 1,225 people were admitted to these two hospitals over the six-month period because of an adverse drug reaction. 

Many were taking aspirin or other painkillers, known as non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs. 

Others were taking blood-thinning drugs like warfarin or diuretics to reduce the amount of water in the body. 

The most common reaction to these drugs was internal bleeding in the stomach. 

The researchers calculated that 0.15% of those admitted to these hospitals died as a result of an adverse drug reaction. 

Figures from the Department of Health show that there were 3.8m hospital admissions in 2002. 

The researchers used this figure to calculate that nationally 5,700 patients may be dying as a result of adverse drug reactions. 

However, they said the figure may be even higher because it does not take into account those who die from adverse reactions to drugs they receive in hospital. 

”The true rate of death taking into account all ADRs (adverse drug reactions) – those causing admission and those occurring while patients are in hospital – may therefore turn out to be greater than 10,000 a year,” they wrote. 

According to the researchers, 70% of these reactions could have been avoided. 

They said doctors should carefully consider if patients need a particular drug or such a high dose before prescribing it for patients. 

”Many may be prevented through simple improvements in prescribing,” they wrote. 

”Simple measures such as regular review of prescriptions, the use of computerised prescribing and the involvement of pharmacists in assessing prescribing behaviour may all reduce the burden caused by ADRs (adverse drug reactions).” 

The researchers estimated that adverse drug reactions cost the NHS around £466m a year. 

”Measures are urgently needed to reduce the burden on the NHS,” they said. 

Measures in place 

The Department of Health said measures were in place to identify and learn from adverse drug reactions. 

Much of this work is done by the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency. 

”The safety of drugs is continuously monitored by the medicines watchdog, the MHRA, and they investigate all and any new safety issues that emerge,” a Department of Health spokeswoman said. 

”We are continuously looking to make improvements, including introducing an online yellow card and modernising the way that reactions are reported.” 

The National Patients Safety Agency welcomed the study. 

”It is worth highlighting to patients and their carers that every day more than a million people are treated safely in the NHS,” it said in a statement. 

”The NPSA is here to help make sure that when things go wrong, we find ways to prevent errors recurring.”

From: <deartheo@ziplip.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] you’re invited
Date: July 2, 2004 at 2:20:32 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

National DARE Conference in Nashville

Mark Your Calendar! July 7-9, 2004.

D.A.R.E. needs you in Nashville.

The 2004 National D.A.R.E. Training Conference will be held in Nashville,
Tennessee.

Here is a DARE e-card just for you!

Click on the link below to read your e-card.

http://www.nashvillecvb.com/ecards/dare_111903/
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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Hello all
Date: July 2, 2004 at 11:42:25 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/2/04 9:12:06 AM, doug@northrup.us writes:

I’ve been reading posts for a while now.  I just had a terrible experience.

I had made the decision that I was going to go ahead with Ibogaine and
had made the arrangements and wouldn’t you know I had a family emergency? My
wife ended up in the hospital with Spinal Meningitis.  Good grief.. Anyway,
I had to cancel all my arrangements.  I had hoped to be Morphine free before
my family vacation to Australia.

We’ve saved all our married life (17 years) for a trip to Australia. Now
we have the $$ plus a little extra. The “extra” was so that I could enter
Ibogaine treatment.  Now, with that $$ gone, I don’t have any hope that
I’ll ever get myself detoxed from Morphine.

The disappointment is tremendous…. almost devastating.  When you have
your sights set on something like getting free of an addiction like this and
then everything falls apart, its the most discouraging thing ever.

When I get back from my vacation (which is already paid for – can’t get
a refund now since my wife is certified to travel by her doctors) I’ll try
and save again for another attempt at Ibogaine treatment.

I wish I could just go to the doctor and have them give me Ibogaine
treatment and have it done with.  This all sucks…..especially that I’m
out significant $$’s due to Ibogaine treatment that never occurred.  I
haven’t
worked since May 2003 due to back problems, had surgery july 2003 and have
been in pain in addition to taking morphine for pain (which by now has
stopped working). I’m not willing to take more morphine for my pain as
it makes me very ill.

I’m broke, hooked, discouraged, and I’m supposed to “have a good time”
on my vacation. Yea, right.

Doug,

I am a bit confused by your message.  Are you saying that your wife who was
recently hospitalized for spinal meningitis has been certified to travel by her
doctor?  If so why?

Concerning the lack of funds to seek ibogaine treatment is it that those
founds have been used for the medical expenses of your wife?

I am a patient advocate.  If you would like to discuss these matters email
your telephone number <hslotsof@aol.com> or call me.

Howard

Howard S. Lotsof
President
Dora Weiner Foundation
46 Oxford Place
Staten Island, NY 10301
USA
dir tel, 1 718 442-2754
dir fax, 1 718 442-1957
email, dwf123@earthlink.net

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Doug Northrup” <doug@northrup.us>
Subject: [ibogaine] Hello all
Date: July 2, 2004 at 10:12:55 AM EDT
To: “ibogaine@mindvox.com” <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Please excuse me if there are multiple posts of the same message from me. I’ve not posted here before and am having difficulty getting my posts posted.

Hello all,

I’ve been reading posts for a while now.  I just had a terrible experience.  I had made the decision that I was going to go ahead with Ibogaine and had made the arrangements and wouldn’t you know I had a family emergency? My wife ended up in the hospital with Spinal Meningitis.  Good grief.. Anyway, I had to cancel all my arrangements.  I had hoped to be Morphine free before my family vacation to Australia.

We’ve saved all our married life (17 years) for a trip to Australia. Now we have the $$ plus a little extra. The “extra” was so that I could enter Ibogaine treatment.  Now, with that $$ gone, I don’t have any hope that I’ll ever get myself detoxed from Morphine.

The disappointment is tremendous…. almost devastating.  When you have your sights set on something like getting free of an addiction like this and then everything falls apart, its the most discouraging thing ever.

When I get back from my vacation (which is already paid for – can’t get a refund now since my wife is certified to travel by her doctors) I’ll try and save again for another attempt at Ibogaine treatment.

I wish I could just go to the doctor and have them give me Ibogaine treatment and have it done with.  This all sucks…..especially that I’m out significant $$’s due to Ibogaine treatment that never occurred.  I haven’t worked since May 2003 due to back problems, had surgery july 2003 and have been in pain in addition to taking morphine for pain (which by now has stopped working). I’m not willing to take more morphine for my pain as it makes me very ill.

I’m broke, hooked, discouraged, and I’m supposed to “have a good time” on my vacation. Yea, right.

From: “Doug Northrup” <doug@northrup.us>
Subject: [ibogaine] Hello all
Date: July 2, 2004 at 10:10:36 AM EDT
To: “ibogaine@mindvox.com” <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello all,

I’ve been reading posts for a while now.  I just had a terrible experience.  I had made the decision that I was going to go ahead with Ibogaine and had made the arrangements and wouldn’t you know I had a family emergency? My wife ended up in the hospital with Spinal Meningitis.  Good grief.. Anyway, I had to cancel all my arrangements.  I had hoped to be Morphine free before my family vacation to Australia.

We’ve saved all our married life (17 years) for a trip to Australia. Now we have the $$ plus a little extra. The “extra” was so that I could enter Ibogaine treatment.  Now, with that $$ gone, I don’t have any hope that I’ll ever get myself detoxed from Morphine.

The disappointment is tremendous…. almost devastating.  When you have your sights set on something like getting free of an addiction like this and then everything falls apart, its the most discouraging thing ever.

When I get back from my vacation (which is already paid for – can’t get a refund now since my wife is certified to travel by her doctors) I’ll try and save again for another attempt at Ibogaine treatment.

I wish I could just go to the doctor and have them give me Ibogaine treatment and have it done with.  This all sucks…..especially that I’m out significant $$’s due to Ibogaine treatment that never occurred.  I haven’t worked since May 2003 due to back problems, had surgery july 2003 and have been in pain in addition to taking morphine for pain (which by now has stopped working). I’m not willing to take more morphine for my pain as it makes me very ill.

I’m broke, hooked, discouraged, and I’m supposed to “have a good time” on my vacation. Yea, right.

From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Price on Ibogaine treatment
Date: July 2, 2004 at 9:32:10 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Julian,

Thank you for the kind words.  Log in next week and I will be babbleing about how they used to hang witches years ago.  Speaking of witches, Al Capone, Luchanno and Meyer Lanskie and the mafia boys sold alcohol (and killed people too) but they never sold to a 10 year old kid.  Yea, they were rough and tough and killers but still moral enough to leave the kids alone.  Something the gangsters of today should learn.  OK, all done – LOL.  Ya all have a nice weekend.

Sapphirestardus@aol.com wrote:
Jim you couldn’t babble too much, you can’t babble enough when it comes to this issue. I mean i go over this shit in my head every single day! I’m sure I repeat myself with some people when I discuss this shit BUT it really is sickening the way a nation as great as we can be and have been, is so fucked up when it comes to certain moral issues. Unfortunately we have been this way throughout history. Human beings  generally speaking just haven’t learned that you can’t litigate moral issues. We just can’t let it be. There are countless examples of severe repercussions from acting the way we do but history keeps repeating itself because we refuse to learn! You just keep on ‘babbling’. I LOVE IT!!

Regards,
Julian

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: July 2, 2004 at 9:19:56 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Sean,

So you didn’t fall for his know-it-all, hollier than thou, NA is the ONLY way.  I was reading some stats and AA or NA help maybe 10% of the people,  met clinics maybe 10%, so in other words where ever you go you have a 90% failure rate.  I forget where on the net I was reading it.  I am sure most of you guys have your statistics.

I have know many alcoholoics, cigarette smokers and opiate, speed, and downer users.  I know several who quit on their own, no help from anybody, no counselors, no meetings.  They just said F*** this S***. and quit and never used again.  Like I said alcoholics, drug users and cigarette smokers, they quit and never used again.  I found those to be the most successuful.  I also, in a way, found them to be the crazyest.  Not stupid, but maybe heaviest users, the ones who would have their drug of choice get them in car accidents or in jail overnight.  Once, when I was a kid there was a teenager who would inhale Havana cigars.  He quit smoking and I asked him why and he said: “Best f** reason in the world, I felt like it.”  Another worked in a factory and smasher up a car, he tried the AA but did not like the liars and said hell with everybody and never touched another drop.

If you read the stories on the net, reguardless of which treatment the person chose, most are back on it two years or less.  It is a bad disease we have, a fatal one.  Some people in Viet Nam got addicted either because of their injuries or doing with the guys.  When they got back to the states they kick and never thought of going back.  Others, get hooked and go back again and again and again.  Why, our brains are wired different or it might be the addiction gene.  Some guys in college try coke for the first time and like it, they use it every weekend. Then when they get out they never touch it again. Others, they get a taste of it and it ruins their life, they do it every day, spend every dime on it.

The success rate is low.  I really don’t think AA or NA is right for you.  I know it’s not right for me.  Neither is talking to a counselor, how in the hell is he or she gonna help me quit?  Whenever I came out of a meeting I had a stronger craving than ever.  Ibogaine has about a 50% success rate from what I understand.  That’s the best I have ever heard of.  I hope you find a way that works, then let me know, I either tried it or want to.  Forget about Syanon(sp), or Rap House those are places where they make you scrub the bathroom with a toothbruch type places.  Now I say F***  that Shit, I’ll die.  I don’t have much faith in shrinks either.  I guess if you have brown eyes, you have brown eyes, and your gonna have brown eyes till you die.  Of course, this is just my opinion.

I wish you good luck,

– JIM

UUSEAN@aol.com wrote:

Callie,

You seen like suck a good soul.  I think Preston really hit on something in his reply to you.  In my last go around with NA, I had a sponsor who tried laying a line on me that I used to get back at may parents. Further, I love no-one and care only about myself, otherwise I would stop using and go to NA and work the steps, which he told me is the only thing that work.

I basically told him to fuck off.  I cleaned up, but did not return to NA.  Instead I joined this list, am seeking ibogaine, and starting therapy with a harm reduction therapist.

When in the grips of addiction, especially with the police waging a war on us for the sin of addiction, as Preston said there is little time for anything else. Please give yourself a break.  You deserve it!

Sean

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From: Ambeatty@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] vancouver
Date: July 2, 2004 at 6:58:05 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

When I contacted the Vancouver clinic I was told that they closed temporarily
for a needed break and a needed reorganization of funding. Will probably
reopen in October and will not be treating US citizens.
Mandy

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] buprenorphine
Date: July 1, 2004 at 10:58:46 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Preston,

A riltration is a misspelling of tritration due to hitting the wrong key on the keyboard. Let’s say you were taking naltraxone which is a 50mg pill (they also make it in an under the skin implant) so as to block the effects of narcotics.  If you have been clean for about 21 days they give you naltraxone to block the effects of any narcotics you may use.  You can shoot up heroin and not feel it.  The thing is some people will keep shooting up heroin until they overcome the naltraxone and then they die because after all they have no tolerance.  And under no circumstances should you take naltraxone if you are not 100% clean.  If you do you will undergo immediate narcotic withdrawal.  They often give it to you after your clean and leave a drug treatment program.  It is long lasting and a 50mg pill works for 24 hours or maybe longer.

There is also Naloxone which the EMS carry for injection.  It too is a narcotic antagonist and will bring up sudden opiate withdrawal.  However, it is shorter acting, about 4 hours or so.  Now if you were rushed to the hospital with a heroin OD they would give you that.  I believe the brand name is Narcan.  However, since is wears off after 4 or so hours and you did a large amount of heroin the Naloxone will wear off while the heroin will not and you are in danger of ODing again.  So they may want to keep you there where they can keep an eye on you and monitor your respiration, blood pressure and such. They also put Naloxone in Talwin to stop people from crushing the pill and shooting it up as they do buprenorphine and they call it Suboxone.  Subutex is buprenorphine without the Naloxone.

……On October 8, 2002 the Schedule III narcotic medications Subutexź (buprenorphine hydrochloride) and Suboxoneź tablets (buprenorphine hydrochloride and naloxone hydrochloride) received FDA approval for the treatment of opioid addiction…..

Now, should you get in a severe car accident or suffer severe burns to like 20% of your body and need strong narcotics to relieve the pain they give you enough narcotic to neutralize the naltraxone and then some more to relieve the pain.  This is called titration Now, certain other opiates can cause this sudden withdrawal effect.  Talwin to a MUCH lesser degree and some nasal spray that is just as strong a morphine (or so they say) or Standol after takinge something like Tylenol # 4 (codiene) or Lortab or Vicodine (both are hydrocodone) or Dilaudid or morphine or oxycodone or heroin, the two drugs fight for the mu receptors on the brain and it causes instant and severe w/d symptoms.  A couple of people have wrote in and told of w/d like they never experienced before and that is why.  I would suggest before mixing narcotics that you have not mixed before check out drugstore.com and see if they can cause problems.

It is free and anonymous.  It is also a great place to buy drugs if you have no insurance.  But they call the doc to verify all Rx that are controlled substances like Valium or Lortab.  They do not fill schedule II drugs like Dilaudid or Ritlin or methadone.  But a word of warning, it can take 10 days to 14 days for you to mail in your Rx and wait for them to contact the doc and for you to get it in the mail.  So unless you have a two week supply do not send it in because if you run out it is a bitch to say the least.  For example the local drugstore wanted about $24 or $27 for 30 tabs of my high blood pressure medicine.  They gave me about 100 tabs for the same price.  You can also try CVS (next best) or the one that deals with the NARP (National Association of Retired People) I forget their name.  They charge more than the others but they never call the doc to verify the Rx.  Of course I would not mean that as a hint of any kind.  You need either a charge card or debit card for all of them.

Hope I helped,

– JIM

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>some doc came and did a riltration <

what’s a riltration?
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: CrookedEye420@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 1:27 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] buprenorphine

Just a story about a similar experience… A few months after getting on
methadone, I had been shooting heroin and coke for a while and didn’t have
many good veins left and started using my foot. Well, after a few days, it
swelled up like a softball and I couldn’t walk on it, so I went to the
hospital. I said it was because I dropped a piece of metal on it and it
just barely caught it, then it swelled up on me. I didn’t tell them I was
on methadone because I figured they might give me some good pain meds. So
they cut it open(super painful) and packed it with gauze after draining the
nasty crap out of it. Then a nurse came in and asked if I wanted something
for pain and I was like, “PLEASE!” She came back in with a shot and gave it
to me. It was nubain(sp?), which is an opiate antagonist. As soon as she
shot it in my butt, I felt a hot flash and I knew something was wrong. I
started feeling like I was sick and I knew that I f’ed up. When the nurse
came back in I told them and they rushed me into a new room and tried to
find a vein. Finally after having terrible muscle spasms and twitching,
along with every symptom you all know about, they found a vein a started
pumping me full of demerol until I finally fell asleep. When I woke up they
sent me home. Man, I’ll tell you, that was the worst feeling I can ever
remember.
Shawn

In a message dated 6/26/2004 6:43:53 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
jimhadey3@yahoo.com writes:
Hi Nowwarat,

Just curious, how long did it last? A girl wrote a story about how she was
hurt and
went to the hospital and didn’t want to tell them she was on Met about 100
mg.
They gave her Standol and about 20 min later she went through hell. Things
came
out of every hole she had, made a big mess. Finally, twos hour or so
hours later
some doc came and did a riltration and got her back to normal. But she was
soaked with sweat and been through hell. So if your taking met or even
codine or such I would mention it. I sure don’t want to go through that.
Strange in a way because hospitals
usually like to use Demerol which isn’t bad, a bit rough on the veins but
not bad.

What happens is the two drugs fight to stay on the mu receptors and the bupe
or
Standol acts like Narcan (the stuff they give you should you OD).

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Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – Send 10MB messages!

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] (OT) for those in NYC
Date: July 1, 2004 at 9:47:49 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Will be nice to meet you Sean.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: UUSEAN@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 7:49 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] (OT) for those in NYC

Hi Preston,

AOL opened your file with ease.  I really hope to get there either next week
or the week after.

Peace,
sean

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From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Price on Ibogaine treatment
Date: July 1, 2004 at 9:13:28 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jim you couldn’t babble too much, you can’t babble enough when it comes to this issue. I mean i go over this shit in my head every single day! I’m sure I repeat myself with some people when I discuss this shit BUT it really is sickening the way a nation as great as we can be and have been, is so fucked up when it comes to certain moral issues. Unfortunately we have been this way throughout history. Human beings  generally speaking just haven’t learned that you can’t litigate moral issues. We just can’t let it be. There are countless examples of severe repercussions from acting the way we do but history keeps repeating itself because we refuse to learn! You just keep on ‘babbling’. I LOVE IT!!

Regards,
Julian

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] buprenorphine
Date: July 1, 2004 at 7:05:52 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

some doc came and did a riltration <

what’s a riltration?
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: CrookedEye420@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 1:27 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] buprenorphine

Just a story about a similar experience…  A few months after getting on
methadone, I had been shooting heroin and coke for a while and didn’t have
many good veins left and started using my foot.  Well, after a few days, it
swelled up like a softball and I couldn’t walk on it, so I went to the
hospital.  I said it was because I dropped a piece of metal on it and it
just barely caught it, then it swelled up on me.  I didn’t tell them I was
on methadone because I figured they might give me some good pain meds.  So
they cut it open(super painful) and packed it with gauze after draining the
nasty crap out of it.  Then a nurse came in and asked if I wanted something
for pain and I was like, “PLEASE!”  She came back in with a shot and gave it
to me.  It was nubain(sp?), which is an opiate antagonist.  As soon as she
shot it in my butt, I felt a hot flash and I knew something was wrong.  I
started feeling like I was sick and I knew that I f’ed up.  When the nurse
came back in I told them and they rushed me into a new room and tried to
find a vein.  Finally after having terrible muscle spasms and twitching,
along with every symptom you all know about, they found a vein a started
pumping me full of demerol until I finally fell asleep.  When I woke up they
sent me home.  Man, I’ll tell you, that was the worst feeling I can ever
remember.
Shawn

In a message dated 6/26/2004 6:43:53 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
jimhadey3@yahoo.com writes:
Hi Nowwarat,

Just curious, how long did it last?  A girl wrote a story about how she was
hurt and
went to the hospital and didn’t want to tell them she was on Met about 100
mg.
They gave her Standol and about 20 min later she went through hell.  Things
came
out of every hole she had,  made a big mess.  Finally,  twos hour or so
hours later
some doc came and did a riltration and got her back to normal.  But she was
soaked with sweat and been through hell.  So if your taking met or even
codine or such I would mention it.  I sure don’t want to go through that.
Strange in a way because hospitals
usually like to use Demerol which isn’t bad, a bit rough on the veins but
not bad.

What happens is the two drugs fight to stay on the mu receptors and the bupe
or
Standol acts like Narcan (the stuff they give you should you OD).

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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: July 1, 2004 at 7:01:45 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Callie,

You seen like suck a good soul.  I think Preston really hit on something in his reply to you.  In my last go around with NA, I had a sponsor who tried laying a line on me that I used to get back at may parents. Further, I love no-one and care only about myself, otherwise I would stop using and go to NA and work the steps, which he told me is the only thing that work.

I basically told him to fuck off.  I cleaned up, but did not return to NA.  Instead I joined this list, am seeking ibogaine, and starting therapy with a harm reduction therapist.

When in the grips of addiction, especially with the police waging a war on us for the sin of addiction, as Preston said there is little time for anything else. Please give yourself a break.  You deserve it!

Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Price on Ibogaine treatment
Date: July 1, 2004 at 6:54:41 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Jim,

I share your anger and frustration with the war on addicts, which masquerades as the war on drugs.  And as for the FDA, if big pharma ain’t pushing it, they ain’t approving it. I am convinced that they are in bed with one another.

Anyway thanks for your post.  Until we all get mad enough about the war on us, we won’t do anything about it.

Sean

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: July 1, 2004 at 4:43:11 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I hate to say it but evidently loved dope more than spending time with
them.<

This sucks that you can even suspect this to be the case Callie- it’s not,
in my own opinion, that addicted people (you and me and so many others) love
their drugs more than their loved ones, but rather than they are forced to
spend so much time obtaining the drugs that help them feel “normal” or at
least comfortable in their skins/minds/etc, that they don’t get to spend as
much time as they’d like with their kids/partners/parents/etc. It’s not
“love” of our drugs driving us, at least not in my situation, and never
was-even as much as I do “love” drugs. If we were able to obtain our drugs
legally, sans hassle, we wouldn’t ever have to even think this is the case-
as methadone surely proves to you.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 7:18 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe

Julian, Before I learned of Ibogaine, I had resigned myself to the fact that
I would be a lifetime Methadone Maintenance client at some Methadone clinic!
Now, to me this was a relief as I was headed straight to prison. I had
developed such a habit that illegally obtaining my narcotics by fraud was
the only way I could afford them! Methadone was literally a life saver to
me! I will be forever grateful and I hope the Ibogaine treatment(s) ‘cure’
me but if they do not I will not ever go back to my prior use.

Like I said before, I have no doubt I could detox but it is the
psychological shit that has me all fucked up!!!
I hate the way I feel without narcotics……I love the euphoria and mood
boost I have always obtained from opiates.

My son visited last Monday. He is 25 and it was the first time I have seen
him since his wedding last June. He and his wife live in Texas.
I got so uncomfortable the couple of days leading up to his visit that I was
seeking extra Methadone to take the edge off!
I really hurt my boys during their childhood. I hate to say it but evidently
loved dope more than spending time with them.
Now it hurts me to the core to look back on the selfish choices I made. I
know it hurts them too. They have been able to move on but I have not! The
guilt eats me up!! There is not a day that goes by that I do not feel that
gut wrenching shame of my past behaviors!
Their Dad is a good man. I could not have picked a better father for my
children. He raised them in my absence. Needless to say he hates my guts.
That is probably putting it lightly! He does not understand why they love me
and I really don’t know why they do either.
Oh, they have issues I am sure! They say they have gotten past it but I
really don’t see how they could.
Anyway…..you know that if I chose the drugs over my children that I will
continue to choose them! I can’t not choose them. Sad….huh?

So brother, I know how you feel! Wish I had the answers! Like I said
before….if I ever get them You folks will get them too!
Callie

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From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] heresy of the 12 steps
Date: July 1, 2004 at 4:39:11 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

LSD is/was not laced with strychnine, this is an urban legend/myth.  The
discomfort sometimes equated to strychnine is from a less than pure LSD
product.
Beige, amber, lavender crystal are all impure and gve some unwanted side
effects in higher doses.  Silver crystal is usually pretty clean but white
fluff is
the purest and is the only one soluble in water.  Pure fluff causes no
physical discomfort, just good trippin’.

Even the purest of pure LSD can cause the “strynchine” effects (muscle
cramping, chills, etc) as this are common physiological manifestations of
anxiety.

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Price on Ibogaine treatment
Date: July 1, 2004 at 4:30:34 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi all,

About a month or so ago I wrote to the Mexican clinic near San Diego and asked for a rough estimate of how much it would cost.  I took great pains in explaining that I understood it was a VERY rough estimate and that I knew every case is different.

They responed the next day and said that everyone is different and prices can very.  They said it would be approximately $4,400.  Then you get to San Deigo and they pick you up at the airport and take it from there.  Again, this is a rough estimate.  The only reason I do not go is because of lack of funds.  In other words I am on disability and know of no way to come up with that kind of money.  To some $4,400 is peanuts, to others like myself, it is over 3 months pay.

Just thought I would mention it to you, they come up first or second when you do a google search.  They also mentioned that there are some clinics that offer the “same” treatment for less but read the fine print and you will see that they do not use Ibogaine.  So be careful, once they get you in the door and your sick and maybe not playing with a full deck ( I know that when I am bogue (sick from w/d) I usually am not playing with a full deck and make poor if not wrong decisions) I mean no disrespect when I say things like that and want to make sure you understand I am not trying to be a smart ass.

The one the others are talking about may be a better idea.  A little weed may help a lot.  When we started in the 60’s I thought it would be legal by the mid 70’s if not sooner.  But no, the answer is to put people in jail for it.  Just build more prisons.  Fun facts to know and tell, the U.S. has more of it’s population in jail (per capatia) then any other country, including Russia, China etc.  Yea, the land of the free.  And about 1/2 are there because of drugs.  Think of all the money they would save if they legalized weed alone.  Not to mention orther drugs which may be harmful like LSD, XTC, heroin, speed.  I say leaglize it.  If a person ODs well they OD.  Cigarettes kill more users that all the ODs of legal and non legal drugs put together.  But I am sure that most of us know that.  Hey, doesn’t it say in the constitution something about the right of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?  Oh well,  too late now.

They stopped the Ibogaine treatment because one person died.  How many die each year of ODs, shooting some poison that was mixed in with the heroin or other durg, auto accidents, homocide, suicide, getting robbed,  aids, hep c, hep b, and depression.   Not to mention robbing, getting robbed, drive bys resulting in injury or paryliss and things like doing something illegal, etc, etc.  You all know what I am talking about.  How can our leaders be so dumb?  What about live and let live?

Yea, another NEW war on drugs, what’s the matter did we lose the last one, the one before that, and before that etc.  Ok, I babbled on enough, you get the idea.  A ten year old kid could do the math.  When a mommie or daddy goes to jail it is rough on the whole family AND the tax payers.  Sorry, sorry, Iike I said I babbled on long enough.

Good luck to ya,

– JIM

CrookedEye420@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 7/1/2004 2:24:15 AM Eastern Daylight Time, gregdouglass@covad.net writes:
Ten thousand bucks ?!? Contact the Ibogaine Association directly to check that: they aren’t anywhere near that expensive, unless their rates have gone up triple since I did the treatment just over a year ago! I should think that between a plane ticket to San Diego and the five-day stay in Mexico that it would still be much less than going to Holland.
But…just out of curiosity…does anyone know how much the treatment at the Holland facility runs?
Greg Douglass
It cost me about $2,300 for my whole trip to A’dam and the Iboga/Cannabis/mushroom tea, plus my stay and food.  That includes the roundtrip plane tickets, too!  It’s not a medical facility but Sara can take care of you better than some nurse who never experienced the Iboga, IMO.
Shawn

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – 50x more storage than other providers!

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Adam
Date: July 1, 2004 at 3:37:19 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello Callie! How are you doing? I hate to rehash old stuff but I feel guilty about something. I know I apologized about my initial letters and attitude but I’ve been going through all my e-mail to reduce some of the nonessential letters or redundant ones and I came across a couple of the letters I sent. I don’t know if that’s all of them, but the couple I read were…I don’t know, disgusting! I had told you I was detoxing badly but the reason for my memory loss had to be from the halcion/xanax I was taking. Initially all I knew was I wrote something very bad but now that I actually found the letters, I am, well I feel terrible. One more time: I am so very sorry for the shit I wrote. I really don’t recognize it for whatever or whomever I was at the time isn’t the real me, or the ‘me’ that I wish to be. Oh my God! I don’t know how anyone even wants to talk with me? Those letters were….FUCKED UP!! Sorry……..
Julian

From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: July 1, 2004 at 3:23:06 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

CrookedEye420@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 7/1/2004 2:24:15 AM Eastern Daylight Time, gregdouglass@covad.net writes:
Ten thousand bucks ?!? Contact the Ibogaine Association directly to check that: they aren’t anywhere near that expensive, unless their rates have gone up triple since I did the treatment just over a year ago! I should think that between a plane ticket to San Diego and the five-day stay in Mexico that it would still be much less than going to Holland.
But…just out of curiosity…does anyone know how much the treatment at the Holland facility runs?
Greg Douglass
It cost me about $2,300 for my whole trip to A’dam and the Iboga/Cannabis/mushroom tea, plus my stay and food.  That includes the roundtrip plane tickets, too!  It’s not a medical facility but Sara can take care of you better than some nurse who never experienced the Iboga, IMO.
Shawn

Do you Yahoo!?
Read only the mail you want – Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] what’s new
Date: July 1, 2004 at 1:32:39 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Check out the what’s new page on the ibogaine dossier.

Updates on ibogaine

http://www.ibogaine.org/whatsnew.html

or

http://www.ibogaine.desk.nl/whatsnew.html

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From: Nowwarat@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] buprenorphine
Date: July 1, 2004 at 12:41:25 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Julian,

Ya know how they say misery loves company. I wouldn’t wish that on an enemy. It’s torture, plain and simple. I am glad you and others have shared their stories of sudden acute opiate withdrawal. There is a commomality in that we all think “oh boy” one second and “Oy Ve” the next.

Good luck,

Nowwarat

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] (OT) for those in NYC
Date: July 1, 2004 at 11:06:20 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/1/2004 9:44:25 AM Central Daylight Time, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:
(see attachment)

great advertisement!!!!

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] (OT) for those in NYC
Date: July 1, 2004 at 10:43:46 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I had you pictured a bit more conservative with long brown hair and fewer
piercings.<

What are you imply Callie, that I don’t look conservative?
I do have long brown hair now, the blue having been long gone at this point.
I had just put some purple in to go with the blue when I booked a national
Palm Pilot print advert a few years ago, and when I got the call saying they
wanted to book me, they said I had the job but would really, really like me
to dye my hair green. Considering the fee, I didn’t hesitate- plus, I hadn’t
done the green hair routine before.
(see attachment) I scared the heck out of my girlfriend’s little sister soon
after, when she first met me, me with the rings and green hair, she a
little, very conservative family’s little jewel of a daughter. It was
hilarious. I wish I’d had a camera to record the expression on her face when
she first met me, it was priceless. I don’t think I’d seen such a shocked
expression on a little kid before, and really, I almost fell down trying not
to laugh (being the first time for me meeting most all of V’s Dad’s side of
the family, at the annual family reunion).
Anyway, I apologize to the list for this completely off-topic thread and
pics of myself, but personally, I think it’s kinda neat to know the others
on this and other lists too, in more detailed ways than the usual faceless,
practically anonymous way I usually know folk online.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 7:29 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] (OT) for those in NYC

My, my, my!!!!!!! Is that blue haired, pierced man in the picture you
Preston? If so, that is not how I had you pictured at all! I had you
pictured a bit more conservative with long brown hair and fewer piercings.
I do love to see what folks look like though! They hardly ever look like how
I have them pictured!
Hope your party goes well! Wish I was closer so I could drop in!
Peace! Callie
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[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
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From: CrookedEye420@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: July 1, 2004 at 10:19:18 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/1/2004 9:44:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time, trtye@gci.net writes:
Callie: I will probably be in Nashville during July. I’ll definitely email you before I come. As to the Ibogaine: The opportunity that has come up recently is not with the Mexican Iboga Association. It is from a private source. Supposed to be top quality. It would involve traveling  However, it would not be in the safety net of a hospital so I’m hesitant. Plus, as I mentioned, I have the chance to get on Suboxone, which I would only use as a detox not as a maitenance drug.
I went to A’dam and went through treatment at Sara’s house, not a medical facility.  I don’t think it’s as scary or dangerous as you may think.  It is a powerful experience but not some wig-out type of psychedelic like shrooms or LSD.  Personally, I was at the point that I would have tried anything if I thought it might help and I am so glad I did it.  It took about two months before I felt really good but, for those two months, the worst symptom I had was some minor stomach cramping, mild diarrhea, or some sneezing, which was mostly relieved by high quality Cannabis.  With methadone the residual withdrawal can last up to a year, but with Iboga, only three months after my experience, I feel like a brand new person and I have no dependence on any drug to feel okay anymore.  It has changed my life and I would love to do it again, even though I am not physically dependent on anything.  I think it is a very spiritual experience and it helped me to think a different way, even though I couldn’t make much sense of my visions.  Give it a shot, what have you got to lose?

Shawn

From: Terrell Tye <trtye@gci.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: July 1, 2004 at 9:43:19 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Callie wrote:
Hi Trtye, Yes, we probably have stood in line together. If you ever come back Nashville way drop me an e-mail and we will meet for coffee or something!
Go for the Ibogaine! I am very jealous!
As far as the low energy and general funk you feel after detoxing from opiates, if I have heard right, Ibogaine helps with this in most people.
I would get in touch with the clinic in Mexico that is going to treat you and do whatever they say.
Please, please, please let us know how it goes!

Callie wrote: “If you ever come back Nashville way drop me an e-mail and we will meet for coffee or something!”Howard wrote: “Providing you have no medical issues that would preclude your taking ibogaine I don’t think you have anything to lose by trying it under medical 
conditions. Age is in many cases a factor in recovery from ibogaine effects as it is 
with many drugs and many medical procedures. But, if you are going in free of 
opiates you don’t have to deal with withdrawal and that is a big plus to begin 
with. If your treatment follows the norm what you can expect after the 
immediate effects of ibogaine is a few days of exhaustion (days two and three) and 
then a rebound to enormous energy and a sense of well being that usually occurs 
after you have had the opportunity to sleep. But, it is important to 
remember that every person responds somewhat differently not only to ibogaine but to 
all drugs. Possibly, to life as well. The most important thing for you to do 
is talk to your provider about all your questions and concerns. And, you can 
also bring those questions to the list. I would suggest you read 
http://www.ibogaine.org/clin-perspectives.html and also the discussion section of the 
manual for ibogaine therapy http://www.ibogaine.org/manual.html

Is my understanding you are no longer on buprenorphine correct?”

Howard

Callie: I will probably be in Nashville during July. I’ll definitely email you before I come. As to the Ibogaine: The opportunity that has come up recently is not with the Mexican Iboga Association. It is from a private source. Supposed to be top quality. It would involve traveling  However, it would not be in the safety net of a hospital so I’m hesitant. Plus, as I mentioned, I have the chance to get on Suboxone, which I would only use as a detox not as a maitenance drug.

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: July 1, 2004 at 9:31:02 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Good Morning Callie!
Listen Callie. I think anyone who reads your letters can easily tell you are a very nice, sweet, sensitive human being. I know what you did as a mother because I was not too different as a father. I was a good father but I made choices that put drugs first and everything else after that. You must be a good mother and person or I don’t think your sons would acknowledge you. It’s not like they have to. They want to so they see what you can not. It’s like my daughters, they have never rejected me even though their mother had told them things about me that were not good. It put me in a position to talk with them about my life and I guess it helped because I am a big part of their life. Their mother hated me too but I kept trying to talk with her to get her to understand things, but it is very hard. She’s the type that can quit smoking at any time. She doesn’t understand addiction. I’m sure you have but is it possible to get your ex to understand you and like you? Do you even want him to like you? When you spoke about this in your letter, I had a pain ( a spiritual pain) in my gut for you. I guess it is from hearing your pain and being able to relate very easily but….I don’t know….I guess I just want to help some way and I don’t know how…..if there is a way, let me know.
Love on ya’
Julian

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] buprenorphine
Date: July 1, 2004 at 9:06:46 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

It’s difficult to recall my experience but about 10 years ago, I had taken about 300-400 mgs. meth and a few quaaludes (boots) and a couple of beers. I was driving a taxi and needless to say I had an accident. I was so stoned I guess the medics couldn’t figure out if I had any serious injuries, for I was bleeding on the face. In the hospital, I was asked what I took and I told them but I don’t think they believed me about being on a clinic, because the next thing I know, I was hooked up to an IV. I was happy thinking now I’ll really get stoned and all of a sudden I get a hot flash. It began at the top of my head and slowly moved to my feet. I really thought I was dying. I figured this was a real overdose and God was taking me. I threw up violently, had more shit coming out of me from every single hole in my body and I began to thrash left to right, back and forth but I was restrained. While this was going on, no one would listen to me and I remember the looks I got from the staff, like I’m a real scumbag and deserve what’s happening. My ultimate revenge for their arrogance and stupidity for not listening was they had to clean up the whole area where I was as well as me. There was alot. This went on for almost twenty minutes until finally they realized I wasn’t bullshitting. They took out the IV and I don’t recall their giving me anything but they could have. I was so sick. After about 3-5 minutes I was stoned again and felt good, but it was one of the most terrible experiences. It was narcan that they gave me.

Regards,
Julian

From: “Allison Senepart” <paradisepaint@callsouth.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: July 1, 2004 at 8:54:14 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Callie.   You are doing so well it hurts to hear you beating yourself up over past choices.  This probably will sound trite but I went through all the guilt trip, especially about being a  Mum and an addict, but now I look back and its like it wasn’t all my choice.  I knew I was doing wrong but it was like I just couldn’t function without it.  I tried so many times but in the end I was so tired and sick, the house was a horrible mess, everything felt dirty, including me, theres only so many takeaway meals you can eat etc.  and the next rationalisation was just a quick one to get energy to clean things up and get on top and then all would go back to the start of the vicious cycle again.    Now that I’ve been clean (yet again) for over a year my brain seems to function in such a different way.  Previously I couldn’t do anything until I had my hit at the time, get out of bed, clean the house, drive somewhere etc. etc.  This probably sounds garbled but I guess it is meant to say Be good to yourself and other things will follow.  OK you made mistakes.  Anyone who says they haven’t is probably lying.  The important thing is  not the mistakes you make but the way you deal with them.   If your boys love you  thats so good.  Make every day you can special, especially if you’ve misssed out on things previously.   Best wishes   Allison

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Thursday, 1 July 2004 11:19:22 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe

Julian, Before I learned of Ibogaine, I had resigned myself to the fact that I would be a lifetime Methadone Maintenance client at some Methadone clinic! Now, to me this was a relief as I was headed straight to prison. I had developed such a habit that illegally obtaining my narcotics by fraud was the only way I could afford them! Methadone was literally a life saver to me! I will be forever grateful and I hope the Ibogaine treatment(s) ‘cure’ me but if they do not I will not ever go back to my prior use.

Like I said before, I have no doubt I could detox but it is the psychological shit that has me all fucked up!!!
I hate the way I feel without narcotics……I love the euphoria and mood boost I have always obtained from opiates.

My son visited last Monday. He is 25 and it was the first time I have seen him since his wedding last June. He and his wife live in Texas.
I got so uncomfortable the couple of days leading up to his visit that I was seeking extra Methadone to take the edge off!
I really hurt my boys during their childhood. I hate to say it but evidently loved dope more than spending time with them.
Now it hurts me to the core to look back on the selfish choices I made. I know it hurts them too. They have been able to move on but I have not! The guilt eats me up!! There is not a day that goes by that I do not feel that gut wrenching shame of my past behaviors!
Their Dad is a good man. I could not have picked a better father for my children. He raised them in my absence. Needless to say he hates my guts. That is probably putting it lightly! He does not understand why they love me and I really don’t know why they do either.
Oh, they have issues I am sure! They say they have gotten past it but I really don’t see how they could.
Anyway…..you know that if I chose the drugs over my children that I will continue to choose them! I can’t not choose them. Sad….huh?

So brother, I know how you feel! Wish I had the answers! Like I said before….if I ever get them You folks will get them too!
Callie
____________________________________________________
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From: CrookedEye420@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: July 1, 2004 at 2:59:13 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/1/2004 2:24:15 AM Eastern Daylight Time, gregdouglass@covad.net writes:
Ten thousand bucks ?!? Contact the Ibogaine Association directly to check that: they aren’t anywhere near that expensive, unless their rates have gone up triple since I did the treatment just over a year ago! I should think that between a plane ticket to San Diego and the five-day stay in Mexico that it would still be much less than going to Holland.
But…just out of curiosity…does anyone know how much the treatment at the Holland facility runs?
Greg Douglass
It cost me about $2,300 for my whole trip to A’dam and the Iboga/Cannabis/mushroom tea, plus my stay and food.  That includes the roundtrip plane tickets, too!  It’s not a medical facility but Sara can take care of you better than some nurse who never experienced the Iboga, IMO.
Shawn

From: CrookedEye420@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: July 1, 2004 at 2:32:19 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 6/29/2004 3:19:08 PM Central Daylight Time, sara119@xs4all.nl writes:
do you know why it takes such a long time ?  after all at the methadone clinics they tell that it doesn’t attack the bone marrow.
wart
Posted: Feb 2 2004, 09:33 AM

Gone to Pod

Unknown Grow Zone
Group: Somniphiles
Posts: More Than 500
Member No.: 277
Joined: 5-December 02
Karma: 2

Methadone metabolism
Methadone is soluble in body fats called lipids, so it is well absorbed from the gastrointestinal tract into the blood stream. It is primarily broken down in the liver and undergoes fairly extensive metabolism as it passes through the liver for the first time.

It binds very well to albumin and other plasma proteins and also (without causing damage) to various body tissues, especially to the:

Lungs
Kidneys
Liver
Spleen.
The concentration of methadone in these organs is much higher than in the blood.

There is then a fairly slow transfer of methadone between these stores in the tissues and the blood. For methadone to be active it must be contained in the blood so it can travel to the brain. Even if there are extensive stores elsewhere in the body a client will only feel the effects of methadone actually in the blood.

Methadone metabolites are eliminated in the urine and faeces together with unchanged methadone (about 10% of the methadone administered orally is excreted unchanged).70 It is also secreted in sweat and saliva.

Methadone is found in high concentrations in gastric juices. During pregnancy the concentration in the placental cord blood is about half the maternal level.

Half-life
The half-life of a drug is the name given to the time it takes for blood levels of a drug to drop to 50% of the peak concentration. The half-life of diamorphine (heroin) is around 3 minutes. The half-life of methadone depends upon whether it is a first dose or a dose given as part of an ongoing programme.

Single, first dose
The apparent half-life of a single oral dose of methadone is shorter than that in extended use. This is because much of the initial dose becomes distributed into the tissue reservoirs and is therefore not available in the blood stream.

Following ingestion of oral methadone blood levels rise for about 4 hours and then begin to fall. The apparent half-life of a single first dose is 12-18 hours with a mean average of 15 hours.68

Single dose of oral methadone

First few days of usage
Over the first 3 days of methadone consumption the ’tissue reservoirs’ of methadone in the lungs, kidneys and liver gradually fills. After the first day subsequent doses start from a higher baseline and therefore reach a higher peak. The half-life of the drug reflects only clearance of the drug from the system and is therefore extended to between 13 and 47 hours with a mean average of 25 hours.68

This graph illustrates the 3 days it takes for the ’tissue reservoirs’ to fill.

First 3 days of dispensing, for oral methadone, with once-daily dosing (doses at 0, 24, 48 hours)

Regular dosing
Once in a steady state variations in blood concentration levels are relatively small. Clients may prefer to take their daily dose at a particular time each day but this makes little difference to their blood levels of methadone.

Methadone’s long half-life means that once-daily dosing should theoretically be adequate for clients who have been on a constant oral methadone dose for more than 3 days.

Once-daily dosing of oral methadone at steady state

Missed dose
If one day’s dose of methadone is omitted from a regular regime the blood concentration will continue to fall gradually over the 24-48 hour interval.

After 25 hours a person on a regular once-daily dosing regime will have methadone blood levels equal to around half the peak level i.e. 4 hours after dosing. The blood concentration would typically fall to 25% of the peak level after 48 hours.

3 day recovery to steady state from missed dose at day 10
Taken from poppies.org .

Shawn

From: Nowwarat@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] buprenorphine
Date: July 1, 2004 at 2:26:06 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sounds very familiar and real.

Nowwarat

From: “Greg Douglass” <gregdouglass@covad.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: July 1, 2004 at 2:26:12 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ten thousand bucks ?!? Contact the Ibogaine Association directly to check that: they aren’t anywhere near that expensive, unless their rates have gone up triple since I did the treatment just over a year ago! I should think that between a plane ticket to San Diego and the five-day stay in Mexico that it would still be much less than going to Holland.
But…just out of curiosity…does anyone know how much the treatment at the Holland facility runs?
Greg Douglass
—– Original Message —–
From: CrookedEye420@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 11:09 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe

In a message dated 6/29/2004 8:45:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time, mcorcoran27@hotmail.com writes:
I wanted to ask you if you were referring to the Iboga Association when you mentioned treatment in Mexico? I need to do this in the worst way but I live in NYC and my bills are insane and I don’t have 10,000 bucks layin around.
I have been speaking to an authority on the subject and he told me that was probably my best  bet but I’ve sent several emails to them but haven’t heard back. I’m gonna give them a call today but I thought I’d ask you if that was the treatment center you were talking about?

Also if anyone knows when there gonna start doing the treatment again in Vancouver please let me know. – Desperate to get off Meth.
Try talking to Sara in Holland.  She belongs to the list/forum and her email is Sara119@xs4all.nl , cheapest place I could find and she is a great person.
Shawn

From: CrookedEye420@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: July 1, 2004 at 2:09:52 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 6/29/2004 8:45:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time, mcorcoran27@hotmail.com writes:
I wanted to ask you if you were referring to the Iboga Association when you mentioned treatment in Mexico? I need to do this in the worst way but I live in NYC and my bills are insane and I don’t have 10,000 bucks layin around.
I have been speaking to an authority on the subject and he told me that was probably my best  bet but I’ve sent several emails to them but haven’t heard back. I’m gonna give them a call today but I thought I’d ask you if that was the treatment center you were talking about?

Also if anyone knows when there gonna start doing the treatment again in Vancouver please let me know. – Desperate to get off Meth.
Try talking to Sara in Holland.  She belongs to the list/forum and her email is Sara119@xs4all.nl , cheapest place I could find and she is a great person.
Shawn

From: CrookedEye420@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] buprenorphine
Date: July 1, 2004 at 1:50:29 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 6/28/2004 3:08:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time, goosebumpz2002@yahoo.com writes:
I know from experience that  you HAVE to wait till you start going through methadone withdrawl and i dont mean a runny nose i mean withdrawl!  if you wait two days or about 36 hours to 48 hours there will be NO narcan like effects cuz yes if you wait  buprenorphine does make you go through withdrawl but the amazing thing is you cant feel it if you wait the alloted time you go through withdrawl wile feeling no pain i think it is pretty sweat but methadonewithdrawl lasts acute that is 10 to 14 days so you cant stop taking the bupe.  i am not some bullshitter or some salesman for bupe but fuck man the shit works email me if you want to here more and it is perfect for heroin withdrawl which lasts maybe 4 days when i was in rehab 75% of the people were there were for heroin or opiates and not one not one single mother fucker that did the bupe actually suboxone said it was anything less than a miracle drug but thats also scary taking the withdrawl out of heroin addiction we all thought that it will create more junkies cuz you take the withdrawl out of heroin addiction and you got a new beast!   peace out love to all TURTLE
When I did a bupe detox, I was okay in the hospital, although I couldn’t sleep, but as soon as I got home I felt sick.  I started using right away after that.

Shawn

From: CrookedEye420@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] buprenorphine
Date: July 1, 2004 at 1:27:44 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Just a story about a similar experience…  A few months after getting on methadone, I had been shooting heroin and coke for a while and didn’t have many good veins left and started using my foot.  Well, after a few days, it swelled up like a softball and I couldn’t walk on it, so I went to the hospital.  I said it was because I dropped a piece of metal on it and it just barely caught it, then it swelled up on me.  I didn’t tell them I was on methadone because I figured they might give me some good pain meds.  So they cut it open(super painful) and packed it with gauze after draining the nasty crap out of it.  Then a nurse came in and asked if I wanted something for pain and I was like, “PLEASE!”  She came back in with a shot and gave it to me.  It was nubain(sp?), which is an opiate antagonist.  As soon as she shot it in my butt, I felt a hot flash and I knew something was wrong.  I started feeling like I was sick and I knew that I f’ed up.  When the nurse came back in I told them and they rushed me into a new room and tried to find a vein.  Finally after having terrible muscle spasms and twitching, along with every symptom you all know about, they found a vein a started pumping me full of demerol until I finally fell asleep.  When I woke up they sent me home.  Man, I’ll tell you, that was the worst feeling I can ever remember.
Shawn

In a message dated 6/26/2004 6:43:53 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jimhadey3@yahoo.com writes:
Hi Nowwarat,

Just curious, how long did it last?  A girl wrote a story about how she was hurt and
went to the hospital and didn’t want to tell them she was on Met about 100 mg.
They gave her Standol and about 20 min later she went through hell.  Things came
out of every hole she had,  made a big mess.  Finally,  twos hour or so hours later
some doc came and did a riltration and got her back to normal.  But she was soaked with sweat and been through hell.  So if your taking met or even codine or such I would mention it.  I sure don’t want to go through that.  Strange in a way because hospitals
usually like to use Demerol which isn’t bad, a bit rough on the veins but not bad.

What happens is the two drugs fight to stay on the mu receptors and the bupe or
Standol acts like Narcan (the stuff they give you should you OD).

From: CrookedEye420@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine vs acid or mesc.
Date: July 1, 2004 at 1:13:33 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 6/25/2004 6:51:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Nowwarat@aol.com writes:
Unfortunately I haven’t done X as I was born too early but from what I’ve read it sounds like the way I’d want my brain to be permanently rewired. As a child of the 60’s I took acid and mescaline many times.

How does the Ibogaine experience compare to the above? Acid can make you aware of timelessness, that the Universe is alive, and that your brain is the repository of  genius imagination and intelligence. But ibogaine sounds like a psychedelic experience that also has a physiological effect on opiate addiction on a cellular level. But then I hear it’s also operating on an emotional level.

Nowwarat
I have done almost every drug you heard of and probably a bunch you haven’t and iboga is in a class by itself.  X is a very happy loving emotional trip but soft on visual effects.  LSD is more on the intellectual side but doesn’t have too much mind load and tends to be a more entertaining experience then spiritual.  Mushrooms are very similar to LSD visuals but more earthy and the visuals are only intense on the come up, then you get a very intellectually stimulating mind trip, can be very spiritual.  Mescaline is like Mushrooms but longer lasting like LSD.  Iboga is like laying down to go to sleep, then being fully aware of lucid dreams, yet they were impossible for me to control.  Not scary or overwhelming, not even worrisome.  The trip is actually pleasant, it’s just the vomiting that bugged me.  One thing though, for me anyway, is the visions had nothing to do with my addiction, nor did they make any sense to me.  But after the trip, my thought process changed.  I started thinking a lot more about the right way to live.  I started to want to be healthier, stronger, and smarter instead of wanting to get high.  The change came after the visions and the main part of the trip, so the visions didn’t seem to mean much to me.  I knew they weren’t real but I couldn’t change them and it was easy to get involved in the visions if I chose to.  Right after the trip I was kind of bugged out about the trip, but since I have come all the way down and it has changed me for the better, plus cured my addiction, I now have a great respect for it and I would love to do it again, probably even several times a year.  BTW, I have never had a bad trip, sometimes they were rough on me emotionally, but those were the trips I learned the most from.  I know some people may consider a rough mental trip a bad trip, but in that case, the bad trips are my favorite because those are the ones that help change me the most, all for the better.  I don’t want to act like it’s fun because it was very powerful and not exactly like tripping with a bunch of friends, but in a sense it was very enjoyable for me.  It’s not the kind of experience that anyone would wig out during, or at least I can’t imagine someone wigging out from it.  Usually when a person wigs out, they start worrying about their body or mind and it gives them a bad trip, but this makes you comfortable(as long as you don’t move too much), then gives you wild vivid dreams that you are totally aware of.  It’s cool to say the least, not to mention cleansing of your body and mind.  Try it!
Shawn

From: CrookedEye420@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Julian
Date: July 1, 2004 at 12:30:01 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 6/25/2004 1:47:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time, CallieMimosa@aol.com writes:
Julian,
I know a lot of folks who feel just like you do about coming to the clinic everyday. I have never felt that way. In fact, it was a relief to me to come to clinic everyday to be dosed. My drug intake was being managed by someone other than myself. I have NEVER been able to take medication like I should! Even now I fuck up and take an extra sip or gulp of my take home bottles if I feel a need to! I asked that my take homes be taken away on two occasions, simply because I could not help drinking it all before time for me to return to clinic. I am getting better about it but I am still not 100 % compliant!
I use to feel like you about being honest regarding my fuck ups BUT…..one night I was lying in bed kicking myself in the ass because I was not going to have a dose for the next day when it hit me!!!!!!!
I AM NEVER GOING TO GET BETTER IF I DON’T GET HONEST WITH SOMEBODY!!!
I can hardly be honest with myself!
Lately, I have been smoking a little weed. I take Protonix for gastric reflux disease and it has been known to show a positive THC in drug screens. I let the nurses know when I got the script and they documented it. Well, it is a free ticket for me to smoke weed! They are excusing my dirty THC urines!
I know deep down I need to be honest about this but so far I can’t! I know if I don’t I am still playing that fucking control game addicts play!
It is easier for me to not smoke weed than it is for me to be honest with my counselor that I have been strongly craving a joint!!
Well, I am going to start rambling if I don’t stop here! lol!

Hope everyone has a nice weekend!
Callie
Callie, when I finished probation, I was getting take-homes but Cannabis had always been a spiritual tool for me as well as a great meditation tool.  Needless to say, I lost my take homes as soon as I was free.  I told my counselor(who was really cool) and the Doc that I used Cannabis for religious and spiritual purposes and that I would not stop.  I explained how it helped for many of my WD symptoms when I began my taper and how it helped me sleep.  Although I never did get my take-homes back, they never bugged me about it, nor did they try to get me to stop.  My counselor was always very supportive and he even was supportive of me when I told him about Ibogaine and that I used Cannabis and other psychedelics to explore my mind and to become more spiritually aware.  I explained that the whole time I was on probation I used LSD weekly+ and it had helped me decide that I wanted to be clean from the methadone and opiates.  I think it impressed them how much I knew about every drug they had ever heard of, including it’s effects (positive and negative) on the body.  I went in with a lot of knowledge and experience and gave sound explanations of my decisions.  I guess it depends on the situation but, if losing your take-homes would be a burden, it may be best to just lie, but you have to always be honest with yourself.  You know deep down inside when somethings bad for you, it’s just about being honest with yourself.  I feel Cannabis is my Holy Sacrament and it has helped me tremendously in many things in my life, other than my addiction.  No one can tell me anything else and I will come loaded with ammo(info/studies) to back my argument.  Very rarely does anyone argue with my points in the way I present them, which was with a barrage of accurate information.  I guess I am just trying to say, that if you know that it helps you and it doesn’t cause or exacerbate your problems, then don’t let someone choose different for you.  Peace…
Shawn

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