Ibogaine List Archives – 2004-07

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] check this out
Date: July 31, 2004 at 11:38:31 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thought some of you might enjoy this.  I take no further responsibility.
Takes a bit of time to load and has a front end strange advertisement (maybe).

http://www.jibjab.com/

Howard

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From: <deartheo@ziplip.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] (this one instead)”Fwd: HHS Orders Political Screening of Scientists
Date: July 31, 2004 at 6:09:50 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.jointogether.org/sa/news/summaries/reader/0%2C1854%2C572529%2C00.html
HHS Orders Political Screening of Scientists
7/6/2004
The U.S. Health and Human Services Department (HHS) told agency scientists that they can no longer participate in World Health Organization (WHO) meetings unless they receive prior approval from a senior political appointee, the Los Angeles Times reported June 26.

WHO has always invited researchers directly to its meetings. But a top HHS official requested that WHO now send invitations to the department’s secretary for review. So far, WHO officials have refused to adhere to the request.

Denis Aitken, WHO assistant director-general, said the request would compromise the independence of international scientific deliberations. But Aitken said he is willing to work with the Bush administration on a compromise.

”It’s an important issue for us,” Aitken said. “We do need independent science. If we want government positions, we have government meetings. We have many, many of these government assemblies, but they address a separate set of concerns than the scientific gatherings.”

Dr. D.A. Henderson, an epidemiologist who acts as an official advisor to HHS Secretary Tommy Thompson, disagrees with the new HHS policy. “I do not feel this is an appropriate or constructive thing to do,” he said “In the scientific world, we have a generally open process. We deal with science as science. I am unaware of such clearance ever having been required before.”

Thompson’s spokesman, Tony Jewell, said the procedure is needed to ensure that the most knowledgeable scientists are attending the WHO meetings. “No one knows better than HHS who the experts are and who can provide the most up-to-date and expert advice,” he said. “The WHO does not know the best people to talk to, but HHS knows. If anyone thinks politics will interfere with Secretary Thompson’s commitment to improve health in every corner of the world, they are sadly mistaken.”

In the past, the Bush administration has been accused of allowing politics to enter scientific deliberations. For instance, the administration replaced prominent scientists with industry and political allies on scientific advisory panels.

Earlier this year, 60 scientists criticized the Bush administration for “misrepresenting and suppressing scientific knowledge for political purposes.” The president’s science advisor, Dr. John Marburger, called the allegations “wrong and misleading, inaccurate.”
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From: <deartheo@ziplip.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fwd: HHS Orders Political Screening of Scientists
Date: July 31, 2004 at 5:43:53 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

undefined
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From: iboga@ziplip.com <iboga@ziplip.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] New ment fresh Bush Tester
Date: July 31, 2004 at 4:19:46 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“Help Is On The Way”  lol!
Yeah, that check seems to be in the mail every 4 years
from both parties.
:  )
I can’t beleive (oh wait, yes I can) that TV ‘news’ has ignored yet another vital story.  I had no idea that the whole manditory mental health testing thing is actually aready going through in someplace in ILL., So Bush would just be taking a ‘working program’ to a national level, which isn’t so bad right?
I’m just so amazed that they can sell the idea without even really hiding the corporate interests of it, what concerns me more then that they are doing it is that they don’t even feel like they should have to hide that it’s all about profits regardless if good or bad long term.  I had similar thoughts when I was in jail, they don’t even PRETEND like they are there to make people productive members of society again or to rehabilitate in any way (someone put in jail for hot checks isn’t given time/guidence/pointers on how to keep checkbook balenced),  they don’t even pretent like it’s not just about the money.  They don’t even pretend.  The guards talk fairly openly about that.  They make a set amount of money for each head, not to mention they have the people do everything (trusteeLabor) except guard the inmates.  Prison and War are good business.  And I guess, “mental health” is too.
spr.org
Nosaj
—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: 31 Jul 04, 12:27 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] On mental health testing
In a message dated 7/31/2004 11:30:53 AM Central Daylight Time, HSLotsof@aol.com writes:
I think that a great deal of concern should be voiced
towards the Bush administration’s concept of testing Americans for mental
disorders.  The issue of Bush using antidepressants being set aside.

I am very concerned about the concept of mandatory mental health testing.
I have not worked a lot of psych but the work I have done exposed me to many Doctors with many ideas and concepts of diagnosing and treating mental illness.
There are some extreme cases of psychosis that must be treated vigorously but there are also neurosis and other less severe psychosis whose treatments vary with each individual Doc and patient.
I am curious to see what they plan to do when they decide you have a mental illness? Will you be branded or tattooed so that everyone will know at a glance who is sane and who is not (by government definition). Or, will you be required to be medicated and be able to prove you are indeed following ‘their’ outlined treatment?
This shit really worries me! I just don’t think they will test you and then not follow through if the results are off the graph.
I for one am very happy that, “Help Is On The Way”  lol!
Callie, a Kerry/Edwards supporter for 2004
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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] On mental health testing
Date: July 31, 2004 at 3:26:43 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/31/2004 11:30:53 AM Central Daylight Time, HSLotsof@aol.com writes:
I think that a great deal of concern should be voiced
towards the Bush administration’s concept of testing Americans for mental
disorders.  The issue of Bush using antidepressants being set aside.

I am very concerned about the concept of mandatory mental health testing.
I have not worked a lot of psych but the work I have done exposed me to many Doctors with many ideas and concepts of diagnosing and treating mental illness.
There are some extreme cases of psychosis that must be treated vigorously but there are also neurosis and other less severe psychosis whose treatments vary with each individual Doc and patient.
I am curious to see what they plan to do when they decide you have a mental illness? Will you be branded or tattooed so that everyone will know at a glance who is sane and who is not (by government definition). Or, will you be required to be medicated and be able to prove you are indeed following ‘their’ outlined treatment?
This shit really worries me! I just don’t think they will test you and then not follow through if the results are off the graph.
I for one am very happy that, “Help Is On The Way”  lol!
Callie, a Kerry/Edwards supporter for 2004

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine) and Aids
Date: July 31, 2004 at 1:08:58 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thank you Howard!

The guy was voluntarily at the mental hospital, didn’t know that he got way
too much interferon for the treatment of Hep.C  his brother went to get his
medication,
When he was at the Hospital.
The family Doctor was on Holidays so he had to see another Doctor who told
him that
The dosage of the interferon was much too high and that his brother should
take only 1/3 of what he was taken, because of that shock the family decided
to stop the interferon treatment and do Iboga, which was very positive also
for his Hep.c I met him few time after, he became a new person.

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: HSLotsof@aol.com [mailto:HSLotsof@aol.com]
Verzonden: zaterdag 31 juli 2004 18:46
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine) and Aids

In a message dated 7/31/04 9:07:19 AM, sara119@xs4all.nl writes:

<< And I don’t turn anyone down who can make it all the way to my house.

I had a patient who was in a mental hospital and his brother and friend

brought him for a treatment , he was an active tripper took thing off the

wall

and talk to spirits for two days, but 6 weeks later he could drive his car

again he got a clear mind after the iboga session, he is still clean three

years later. >>

Sara is the bravest iboga shaman I know.

Howard

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine) and Aids
Date: July 31, 2004 at 12:45:39 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/31/04 9:07:19 AM, sara119@xs4all.nl writes:

<< And I don’t turn anyone down who can make it all the way to my house.

I had a patient who was in a mental hospital and his brother and friend

brought him for a treatment , he was an active tripper took thing off the

wall

and talk to spirits for two days, but 6 weeks later he could drive his car

again he got a clear mind after the iboga session, he is still clean three

years later. >>

Sara is the bravest iboga shaman I know.

Howard

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] coffee shops
Date: July 31, 2004 at 12:43:49 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/31/04 10:41:19 AM, CallieMimosa@aol.com writes:

<<
I am curious, how much is weed in a coffee shop? Are there  different
varieties and strengths? Are they rolled joints or prepackaged? Can  you
sample the
bud before you buy?
I would love to visit Amsterdam or some other place where  coffee shops were
in business!
We are behind here in the USA. Even behind in providing  healthcare to ALL
the citizens….but I don’t need to get on my soap box  today!
Hope this finds all you happy and healthy!
Callie >>

You ought to visit Amsterdam, the coffee shops are a gas if for no other
reason than experiencing a different culture.  Prices are quite reasonable and
most coffee shops have menus like restaurants where you can select from varieties
of hash and grass.  In some few places you can sample but, in most cases you
would be a small amount.

http://www.coffeeshop.freeuk.com/

Howard

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine) and Aids
Date: July 31, 2004 at 12:39:06 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/31/04 6:44:44 AM, BiscuitBoy714@aol.com writes:

<< Are there any reports of any one HIV positive or with AIDS being treated
with
Ibogaine? I realize that the provider would have probably found out after
treatment because they will turn down AIDS patients don’t they? Just
wondering. >>

Treatments organized by NDA International, Inc. of patients who were HIV
positive took place in the Netherlands.  There appeared to be no effect on either
T cell count or any interaction with ibogaine due to HIV.

Howard

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] On mental health testing
Date: July 31, 2004 at 12:29:53 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I was peforming some work for a research project I am conducting and came
across a brief article on the rights of mental patients by Thomas Szazs, a
professor of psychiatry.  I think that a great deal of concern should be voiced
towards the Bush administration’s concept of testing Americans for mental
disorders.  The issue of Bush using antidepressants being set aside.

Howard

ORIGINAL ARTICLE

Thursday, April 3, 2003

Remember psychiatric patient’s civil rights
By THOMAS SZASZ
PSYCHIATRIST

“The madman is not the man who has lost his reason. The madman is the man who
has lost everything except his reason.” — Gilbert K. Chesterton

The Washington Legislature is considering two bills that ostensibly deal with
psychiatric advance directives. I say “ostensibly” because these bills, and
all others like them, are reaffirmations of the mental patient’s status as de
jure medical patient and de facto psychiatric slave.

Barely a century and a half ago, a black man in America was treated as a
slave or as not a slave. Today, every American is potentially in such a position:
He is treated as a mental patient deprived of civil rights or as not a mental
patient possessing civil rights. Once placed in the role of mental patient, he
is, for all practical purposes, a slave of the mental health system.

What is the purpose of a psychiatric advance directive? There are only two
options: A PAD can enhance the powers of relatives and psychiatrists who want to
“treat” people whom they regard as mentally ill or it can enhance the powers
of people designated as mentally ill who want to reject the role of mental
patient and rely on the legal system to support their right to divorce their
would-be benefactors. There is no third possibility.

The supporters of House Bill 1041 and Senate Bill 5223 claim that mental
illnesses are brain diseases. If true, there would be no need for PADs.

No neurological patient — suffering from multiple sclerosis or Parkinson’s
— can be treated against his will. We have no neurological health laws but we
do have mental health laws.

It is bad faith and hypocrisy to ignore the identity of the parties that
support the enactment of mental health laws and PADs.

They are the relatives of so-called mental patients, their powerful lobby,
the National Alliance of the Mentally Ill, and most important, the American
Psychiatric Association. Organizations of former mental patients, who correctly
call themselves victims and survivors of “psychiatric abuse,” are conspicuous by
their absence.

The aims of the supporters of PADS and of the politicians who endorse their
efforts are thinly disguised: They wish to expand the state’s power to “treat”
people for mental illness and obstruct the individual’s power to reject
coercion by psychiatric agents of the state, provided their use of force is called
care or treatment.

Here are three statements from HB1041 that illustrate its aim to tighten the
shackles already fastened on America’s psychiatric slaves: Only an “individual
with capacity has the ability to control decisions relating to his or her own
mental health care.” The proposed PAD does not “supersede a determination of
medical necessity.” The proposed PAD may not “be used as the authority for
inpatient admission for more than 14 days in a 21-day period.”

In other words, in vain would a person execute a PAD for the purpose of
rejecting involuntary psychiatric interventions of all kinds: He could still be
committed and treated against his will. The avowed desires of patients and
doctors conflict far more often in psychiatry — in which “therapeutic”
interventions are routinely imposed on patients against their will — than in any other
branch of medical practice.

Thus, advance directives are particularly important and useful for potential
psychiatric patients, not to permit treatment but to refuse it. Any PAD that
does not offer this option, valid even if contested by psychiatric expert
opinion, serves the interest not of the denominated patient but the interest of his
“benevolent” adversaries.

It may be well for us to remember some remarks on involuntary servitude that,
unhappily, apply equally to our country’s practice of involuntary psychiatry.

James Madison said: “We have seen the mere distinction of color made in the
most enlightened period of time, a ground of the most oppressive dominion ever
exercised by man over man” while Jefferson Davis said: “[Slavery is] a moral,
social, and political blessing . . . [It is] the most humane relations of
labor to capital which can permanently subsist between them.”

The problem we now face is just as clear and just as tragically intractable.
Anglo-American law assumes, as a matter of fact, that the relationship between
a person and a legal agent of the state is adversarial. The student of law is
taught the duties and roles of both prosecuting attorney and defense
attorney. Both jobs are legitimate and proper.

Anglo-American psychiatry assumes, as a matter of law and psychiatry, that
the relationship between a person and a psychiatric agent of the state is
therapeutic. The student of psychiatry is taught only the duties and roles of
psychiatrist administering treatment; the psychiatrist has no other legitimate
duties or roles.

Only the job of the coercive psychiatrist is legitimate and proper. The
psychiatrist who tries to help the coerced patient reject the patient role is
likely to be cast out of the profession as a renegade and rejected by the court as
an expert.

All the so-called ethical problems of psychiatry flow from this source.
Washington state’s proposed psychiatric advance directive pretends to extend the
mental patient’s civil rights but does the opposite: It asks the unsuspecting
patient to sign away his right to be free of psychiatric meddling.

Thomas Szasz, M.D., is professor of psychiatry emeritus at SUNY Health
Science Center in Syracuse, N.Y. His most recent book is “Liberation By Oppression;
A Comparative Study of Slavery and Psychiatry” (Transaction Publishers 2002).

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] coffee shops
Date: July 31, 2004 at 11:39:26 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/30/2004 12:57:23 PM Central Daylight Time, sara119@xs4all.nl writes:
buy the better stuff from the coffee shop

I am curious, how much is weed in a coffee shop? Are there different varieties and strengths? Are they rolled joints or prepackaged? Can you sample the bud before you buy?
I would love to visit Amsterdam or some other place where coffee shops were in business!
We are behind here in the USA. Even behind in providing healthcare to ALL the citizens….but I don’t need to get on my soap box today!
Hope this finds all you happy and healthy!
Callie

From: sara119@xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine) and Aids
Date: July 31, 2004 at 10:06:42 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Are there any reports of any one HIV positive or with AIDS being treated
with
Ibogaine? I realize that the provider would have probably found out after
treatment because they will turn down AIDS patients don’t they? Just
wondering.
Randy

Randy, I have been treated few HIV positive people who also had
Hep C&B. with Iboga extract.
And I don’t turn anyone down who can make it all the way to my house.
I had a patient who was in a mental hospital and his brother and friend
brought him for a treatment , he was an active tripper took thing off the
wall
and talk to spirits for two days, but 6 weeks later he could drive his car
again he got a clear mind after the iboga session, he is still clean three
years later.

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine) and Aids
Date: July 31, 2004 at 7:43:58 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Are there any reports of any one HIV positive or with AIDS being treated with Ibogaine? I realize that the provider would have probably found out after treatment because they will turn down AIDS patients don’t they? Just wondering.        Randy

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] OT! don’t yet know
Date: July 31, 2004 at 7:13:13 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/30/04 11:30:00 PM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

<< Anyway, trying to be cheerful here, going into the opposite-from-manic
state

I sometimes I descend into. >>

Hey Preston,

Just keep on Truckin.

Howard

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] OT! don’t yet know
Date: July 31, 2004 at 12:22:57 AM EDT
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>, <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

HI all,
I was hoping to know today about whether I got the part or not so I
could know about the other thing we usually discuss on this list. But it
appears that if I do get the part, I could be told as late as next week
during the week sometimes as it is shooting lots of different scenes with
lots of different types of actors- so I have to spend the next few days
wondering whether I just didn’t get the part and whether I am still waiting
for the call for nothing, or if I’m going to still get that call somtime
during the week at short notice. I can’t now risk doing my original plan in
the next few days as I’ve REALLY REALLY been wanting and planning to for a
few weeks now due to having to be able to actually get up and go work ALL
DAY ON SET, a LOT more exhausting than one might imagine, on a day’s notice-
meaning I can’t be outta my head and body being “helped not cured” as was
stressed to me the other day as what will happen during that thing we
usually discuss here.
(Thing is, mubo-jumbo as it sounds, I knew better than to tell everyone
I Have/had a call-back, as it can often seem to jinx things- but having
heard the term “it’s one of those ibogaine things,” about how ibogaine tends
to draws thing to where they need to be even prior to even actually coming
into contact with the stuff, and having been some mental/spiritual states
that I tend to buy into the mumbo-jumbo stuff sometimes – I mean, isn’t the
whole ibogaine voyage/speaking with the spirits thing kinda mumbo-jumbo in
and of itself?- Sorry all I’m trying to cheer myself up here and feeling
stupid, bummed, and kinda blue, thinking “ok, maybe this is how things are
supposed to be working out. The powers-that-be work in really fucked up and
mysterious ways.
I don’t know whether to be bummed I’d might not have gotten the part, or
be bummed I have to wait to do the other thing another freakin’ week.
I’m so fucking sick and tired- boy does that sound like a cliche from
hell.
Anyway, trying to be cheerful here, going into the opposite-from-manic state
I sometimes I decend into.
Yuck.
Love you all.
Peace,
Preston

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From: BrittaniaCorgis@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Hi Howard and list
Date: July 30, 2004 at 5:48:41 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

If I do this correctly, it will be a short intro. If not you may all continue what you were doing.
Obviously. 🙂

I am Meredith, fem,52, So. Cal. Desert and am a chronic pain pt/addict. DOC always narcotics. My heavy using/out-of-control days long past for now. But I watch it. I am on Duragesic/fentanyl for severe myofascial pain of 4 yrs duration; the last 16 months being medicated for it. I am so grateful. If you ever hear me bitch about anything ….squash me.
I almost lost my mind from pain. I was given a tour of the nearest Kaiser psych facility for 72 hrs; 3 times. I have not been on MMT YET (yet meaning You’re Eligible Too) but may at anytime should we be without insurance.  Anyhoo I am reading the list and would really enjoy hearing who some of you might be and why you are interested in Ibogaine. I am from a long line of physicians from the East Coast (no, I am not a physician but it’s in my blood) and the info I have gleaned so far is fascinating. Help me learn so I can share with others.
Sincerely,
Meredith

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Key reporter
Date: July 30, 2004 at 4:21:50 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On another front, I’ve gotten one key reporter covering the current
crystal meth epidemic in the gay community and the renewed spread of
AIDS interested to the point that personal testimonials of long-term
efficacy from people like DH might convince him. He’s confused by the
implication on the OASAS website that the ibogaine effect only lasts
for a couple of months.

He doesn’t understand getting unsprung. But he WAS in ACT UP with me,
and I’ve convinced him that the route to getting support and the kind
of sponsorship where Glick et al would actually participate in a
forum lay through the AIDS activist sector, not the drug
reformers–i.e, that Glick wouldn’t show up for something sponsored
principally by Ethan Nadelman, let alone me or Howard.

If we can get this guy and his paper, GAY CITY NEWS, to run an
article questioning why HIV FORUM isn’t doing a session on
experimental medications, it would help both with the NY State
Assembly bill, and with certain Congressmen.

Duncan Osbourn can be reached at duncanto@aol.com

Dana/cnw

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From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Pinpoint yr action re the campaign!
Date: July 30, 2004 at 3:32:05 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dana,
I wasn’t clear.  I would like to request the DHHS policy people by fax or snail mail in both Kerry and Bush camPAINs.  I think if done right and consistantly it could do some good to put them in compitition with one another if a dialoge can be established in an election year.  Like “the (other party) says this”, and let compitition take over from there.
I think Kerry is aware of the Nadar factor and that the Nader factor is real but RSimOnz Wife being arrested for herb while he was at Dem Convention and a slight improvement in the HEA act should not be acceptible as good enough.

We are actually calling on the list to do a number of actions focused on the Kerry campaign in the next month, and here’s why. His platform calls for increased drug treatment, but the only measures specified are more piss tests and more court supervision– neither one of which is TREATMENT, for chrissakes! On the other hand he has advocated science-based approaches in general, and the tough-sounding law ‘n order posturing is probably intended purely to forestall republican attacks.

We had a good info-zap at the Kerry HQ in Boston, got the manager of the entire Mass campaign to come down and talk, and she concluded that we were “friendlies” who just wanted to get our point across in the campaign. Said we’d have to go to D.C. though if we wanted to talk policy.

The issue falls into the crack between law enforcement, health and environmental policies, so we have to show up in D.C. some time this month with 25 or so people, literature, videotapes and give something to every single worker in the Kerry national office. Then follow it up with a meeting with a “committee” from all 3 policy bailiwicks that are affected, and get them to issue a simple statement pledging support for scientific research (i.e, Glick & 18 MC). A statement we can take out to the battlefield states to counter-act Nader, who is represented by Kevin Zeese, who has always been anti-Ibogaine because he sees it as a threat to clinical trials of heroin maintenance.

Meanwhile, you all can approach either Theresa Heinz or Chris Heinz on the the campaign trail in yr home state. Win or lose, her foundation has enough money to fund development of iboga alkaloids single-handedly. Who knows– she might even get into it because its African –that may have been why she came back and got more copies of the Independent article. Her roots, so to speak.

Dana/cnw

From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] no wonder he wants everyone on meds!
Date: July 30, 2004 at 3:00:47 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

then again, we are the choir. It just shows to go you how asleep at the
wheel so many people are in this country to support an administration
such as this… completely oblivious and ignorant of what is really
going on in Washington… as long as their TV is tuned in to FOX, gas
in the tanks of the 2.6 cars in the driveway(preferably SUV in shape),
OLD NAVY clothes in the closet, a 12pack of budweiser on ice and a
bucket of kentucky fried on the dinner table… who needs to think? The
government can do that for you!

Sit back! Relax! Allow yourself to believe…
Conformity is SEXY and productivity rules.
Decision-making can be so taxing; Why not let us express your feelings?
Everything has been designed for your COMFORT and CONVENIENCE.

“Discount Rebellion” – Cop Shoot Cop

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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] no wonder he wants everyone on meds!
Date: July 30, 2004 at 2:47:47 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

All his press conferences are scripted, and when he has to field a real question, posed unexpectedly, he gets that “deer in the headlights’ sort of look and can barely mumble his way through.

no doubt, and they are scripted in 3-5 word phrases that even a 4th grader could recite.

i mean, he is a joke. a scary joke.

then again, we are the choir. It just shows to go you how asleep at the wheel so many people are in this country to support an administration such as this… completely oblivious and ignorant of what is really going on in Washington… as long as their TV is tuned in to FOX, gas in the tanks of the 2.6 cars in the driveway(preferably SUV in shape), OLD NAVY clothes in the closet, a 12pack of budweiser on ice and a bucket of kentucky fried on the dinner table… who needs to think? The government can do that for you!

_.dh

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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] MARIJUANA RESEARCH LAWSUITS TO BE FILED
Date: July 30, 2004 at 1:56:20 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I agree with you Ann, and they want Globalization Control.

Anyways, the Dutch MM is a joke, they grow the plant in a laboratory that
need to give the exact same quality cannabis every Harvest.
Do you grow Camomile Or saffron or pepper in a laboratory?
Beside it is more expensive then the coffee shop and there is no High.
So if the insurance doesn’t pay why would anybody pay for a less product.
High on THC = less smoking , low on THC = more smoking, vaporizing the THC
Uis the best way only the THC is vaporized so if it is low on thc
You  can vaporize for ever and get no high especially if you normally use to
buy the better stuff from the coffee shop.
The thing is no one with low budget can get a permit to grow MM
Because they made strange regulations that only a rich grower can answer,
But again if you like to grow organic lettuce for own medicinal use
There are no regulation needed.
It looks good Dutch MM but the reality is different.

Happy weekend,

Sara

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Ann B. Mullikin [mailto:think@francomm.com]
Verzonden: vrijdag 30 juli 2004 17:07
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [ibogaine] MARIJUANA RESEARCH LAWSUITS TO BE FILED

Just think of all the IMPORTANT things that need attention from the FDA that
are ignored – money, time, etc. ……in order to pursue this senseless and
harmful
activity.

I’m angry and disgusted and worried about a government that controls too
many parts of our life that has no better ability to make intelligent
decisions.

ann
think@francomm.com

—– Original Message —–
From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 11:50 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] MARIJUANA RESEARCH LAWSUITS TO BE FILED

MARIJUANA RESEARCH LAWSUITS TO BE FILED

Author:  Holly Angelo; Published:  Thursday, July 22, 2004

Copyright:  2004 The Republican (Springfield, MA)

Website: http://www.masslive.com/republican/  Amherst —

All Lyle E. Craker wants to do is grow marijuana in his lab at the

University of Massachusetts to supply other scientists with the plant so

studies about its medicinal benefits can take place.  But after filing

an application with the federal Drug Enforcement Administration in June

2001 to establish a facility on the Amherst campus to produce marijuana

for U.S. Food and Drug Administration-approved research, he hasn’t

received a yes or no.

To get an answer, Craker has teamed with two other parties as plaintiffs

in one of two lawsuits scheduled to be filed today that accuses the

federal government with obstructing medical marijuana research.

“I’m hoping the lawsuit will bring a response,” Craker said from his

office in Stockbridge Hall yesterday, where he is the director of the

medicinal plant program and member of the department of plant, soil and

insect sciences.  “It’s unfortunate, but the issue probably has to be

forced here (in the courts).”

The two suits are supposed to be filed in the U.S. Court of Appeals in

Washington, D.C.  The first suit is filed by the Multidisciplinary

Association for Psychedelic Studies; Craker and Valerie Corral, a

California-licensed medical marijuana patient and caregiver, against the

Drug Enforcement Administration.  It seeks a decision on Craker’s

request and a request by Chemic Laboratories of Canton to import 10

grams of marijuana from the Dutch Office of Medicinal Cannabis, for use

in a medical marijuana research project investigating the safety

advantages of a nonsmoking delivery device for marijuana by a vaporizer.

The second suit is filed by the association and Corral against the

federal Department of Health and Human Services, the National Institute

on Drug Abuse and the National Institutes of Health.  It also seeks a

final ruling by the agencies on Chemic’s request for marijuana and the

vaporizer study.

The Drug Enforcement Administration and National Institute on Drug Abuse

would not comment on the suits.

“We’re arguing unreasonable delay,” said Rick E. Doblin, president of

the association, based in Sarasota, Fla.  “We are blocked from growing

our own (marijuana) at UMass Amherst.  We are blocked from importing

from the Dutch Office of Medicinal Cannabis, and we are blocked from

purchasing from the government’s supply.”

U.S. Senators John F. Kerry and Edward M. Kennedy sent a letter to the

Drug Enforcement Administration in October 2003 expressing support for

the UMass-Amherst marijuana research production facility.

—————-

MAPS_Forum@maps.org, a member service of the Multidisciplinary Association

for Psychedelic Studies (see www.maps.org/cgi-bin/thatsanorder_LE ).

To [un]subscribe, email the message text,

[un]subscribe maps_forum youraddress to majordomo@maps.org

List archives can be browsed at www.maps.org/forum

Guidelines for authors: www.maps.org/guidelines.txt

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] *Howard&Dana*Hypothetical question
Date: July 30, 2004 at 1:18:30 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The FDA approved ibogaine for phase I clinical safety studies but, not for
marketing.

Howard

In a message dated 7/30/04 11:35:18 AM, deartheo@ziplip.com writes:

<< “The drug has not been approved by the

FDA for use in the United States since animal studies in this country have
not

been conclusive.”

I thought that the FDA approved the research but funding was the issue.  Is
that not right? And correct me if I’m wrong but I beleive the last time I
checked the most USgovenrment funded “anti-addiction” studies were involved in
variations of methadone.  So no government or private funds even though FDA
approved.  Then St.Kitts opened and Mr. Glick is hopefully too busy with his work.
It would be nice to try MC18, some mad scientist person who thinks things
should move forward quicker with it will make a pepsi to it and it will go from
there.  But it interesting to compair them to extract and HCL.   >>

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From: <deartheo@ziplip.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] *Dana*Contact Info
Date: July 30, 2004 at 1:08:15 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dana,
I wasn’t clear.  I would like to request the DHHS policy people by fax or snail mail in both Kerry and Bush camPAINs.  I think if done right and consistantly it could do some good to put them in compitition with one another if a dialoge can be established in an election year.  Like “the (other party) says this”, and let compitition take over from there.
I think Kerry is aware of the Nadar factor and that the Nader factor is real but RSimOnz Wife being arrested for herb while he was at Dem Convention and a slight improvement in the HEA act should not be acceptible as good enough.
He seems to really want to be the national security guy.  Well, if we regulated currently illegal drugs (we do it with methadone, and it has shown clear results, it makes fiscal sense to do it with others too), if we regulate the current drug market we take allot of economic opportunities from terrorist.
As far as Ibogaine or MC18 or whatever, it can be tied to lessoning the demand for drugs decreases economic opportunities for terrorist thus making America safer in both failed police approach and regulation.
Ibogaine/MC18 helps our economy by making more citizens productive members of society, not to mention the 11.7 Billion that we are spending for current drug war being able to be applied to war on terror or healthcare or hey, here’s a novel idea maybe pay off debt so our children aren’t worse off then us.  I think voting Bush out of office is important as to the message it sends that the American people don’t support such arrogance, and do not believe in pre-emptive strikes, or suppressing science in the name of religious dogma and big business lobby profits
Ibogaine/MC18 is tied to healthcare for the obvious reasons.  By the way what is the scientific ibogaine site that has all the really technical stuff that scientist like and seems to give credibility with these type mentality of people.
Kerry and Bush both need to know that organizations like leap.cc (law enforcment against prohibition) exist.  I have talked to plenty people latley and I find that about 5 people out of 100 are not for medical marijauana, when I ask if they think that medicine that helps people should be illegal if going door to door.
So I think if either party were smart they would take a good look at what people are wanting.  Problem is illegal drug money makes so much money that government is saturated in it that the politicians themselves are puppets with strings, you know, the man behind the man behind the man factor, they probably couldn’t embrace it even if they wanted to.  Not to mention it ties the hands of our current prop ’em up with poppies or coca support of ‘friendly nations’.

Ok no more politics, it’s getting like a used car sale

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From: <deartheo@ziplip.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] *Howard&Dana*Hypothetical question
Date: July 30, 2004 at 12:34:02 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“The drug has not been approved by the
FDA for use in the United States since animal studies in this country have not
been conclusive.”

I thought that the FDA approved the research but funding was the issue.  Is that not right? And correct me if I’m wrong but I beleive the last time I checked the most USgovenrment funded “anti-addiction” studies were involved in variations of methadone.  So no government or private funds even though FDA approved.  Then St.Kitts opened and Mr. Glick is hopefully too busy with his work.  It would be nice to try MC18, some mad scientist person who thinks things should move forward quicker with it will make a pepsi to it and it will go from there.  But it interesting to compair them to extract and HCL.
I really think Howard should contact Howard Stern.
Dana I would like to write a letter few letters to DHHS policy people and Mrs.Kerry, if you have their fax numbers handy I’d appreciate it.  I hope everyone is well, especially those who are returning from journeys.

Be Well,
Jason
iboga.wmatrix.net
—–Original Message—–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com [mailto:HSLotsof@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004, 10:04 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Hypothetical question

In a message dated 7/29/04 5:43:45 AM, BiscuitBoy714@aol.com writes:

<< Here is my hypothetical question or
survey I’d like to run. Poll all Dr.’s in the US and ask them of all the
patients
they have on pain meds, diet pills, and benzo’s how many of them have a
problem with them. Then ask the same of patients all anonymously of course.
How
many of these people would take Ibogaine if given a choice?That is if they
even
know about it.That’s a lot of people to say no to. Information is power.
Power
to the people. Remember that?       Randy >>

Randy,

While not exactly an answer to your question two related questionnaries were
provided to providers and patients. The second abstract has not yet been
presented as the meeting takes place in November 2004.

It might be useful for this list to discuss these abstracts.

Howard

http://apha.confex.com/apha/131am/techprogram/paper_71058.htm

4094.0: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 – Board 2

Abstract #71058

Attitudes toward medication to treat heroin dependency

Marilyn Daley, PhD, Schneider Institute for Health Policy, Heller School for
Social Policy and Management, Brandeis University, MS 035, 415 South Street,
Waltham, MA 02454-9110, 781-736-3906, daley@brandeis.edu, Traci Rieckmann,
PhD,
Department of Public Health and Preventive Medicine, Oregon Health Sciences
University, 3181 S.W. Sam Jackson Park Road, Portland, OR 97201-3098, Dennis
McCarty, PhD, Department of Public Helath and Preventive Medicine, Oregon
Health
Sciences University, 3181 SW Samuel Jackson Park Road, Portland, OR 97201,
Cindy Thomas, PhD, Brandeis University Schneider Health Policy Institute,
Heller
Graduate School, 415 South Street, Waltham, MA 02454, and Kathleen Keck,
MMHS, University of Miami, School of Medicine, Coral Gables, FL 33124.
Despite advances in the development of medications to treat addictive
disorders, they are underutilized in community-based drug treatment programs.
To
discover how the treatment community feels about using medication to treat
heroin
dependency, Brandeis and Oregon Health Sciences University surveyed clients
and counselors in residential, outpatient and methadone programs in
Massachusetts and Oregon. Using the Azjen-Fishbein Theory of Reasoned Action
as a
theoretical framework, focus groups were used to develop a questionnaire which
was
subsequently pilot-tested with 83 clients and 61 staff members. Questions
focused
on four medications (Methadone, Clonidine, Buprenorphine and Ibogaine).
T-tests, Anovas and multiple regression analyses were used to identify
normative
influences, beliefs, expectancies, treatment settings and personal
characteristics that predicted favorable or unfavorable attitudes. Although
staff had
become more accepting toward medication due to the increasing prevalence of
dual
diagnosis, the effectiveness of many medications and the spread of HIV, most
clients felt that medication interfered with recovery and should only be used
for
withdrawal. Methadone was viewed more positively than any of the drugs,
although many were guardedly optimistic about Buprenorphine’s potential.
Clonidine
was perceived as ineffective in the treatment of heroin dependence. Counselors
were more receptive to all drugs than clients. Resistance to the use of
pharmacotherapy was particularly pronounced among the former heroin users in
residential programs. A larger survey is underway with 1080 clients and 360
counselors. Results will be used to inform policy and practice regarding the
successful adoption and implementation of effective new practices.
Learning Objectives: 1. Describe at least four major medications that have
been developed to treat heroin dependency 2. Discuss historical barriers to
adopting and implementing new pharmacotherapies in drug abuse treatment
programs
3. Identify the social norms, expectancies, beliefs, and values that are
associated with favorable and unfavorable attitudes toward medication 3.
Recognize
why developing and testing new medications are important for HIV prevention
Keywords: Drug Abuse Treatment, Injection Drug Users
Related Web page:

Presenting author’s disclosure statement:
Organization/institution whose products or services will be discussed: None
I do not have any significant financial interest/arrangement or affiliation
with any organization/institution whose products or services are being
discussed in this session.
The 131st Annual Meeting (November 15-19, 2003) of APHA

http://apha.confex.com/apha/132am/techprogram/paper_92812.htmhttp://apha.confe
x.com/apha/132am/techprogram/paper_92812.htm

4095.0: Tuesday, November 9, 2004 – Board 8

Abstract #92812

Attitudes toward ibogaine among clients and counselors in drug treatment
programs
Marilyn C. Daley, PhD1, Dennis McCarty, PhD2, Cindy Parks Thomas, PA, PhD1,
and Traci Rieckmann, PhD3. (1) Schneider Institute for Health Policy, Brandeis
University, Heller School for Social Policy and Management, P.O. Box 9110, 415
South Street, Waltham, MA 02454-9110, 781-736-3906, daley@brandeis.edu, (2)
Department of Public Helath and Preventive Medicine, Oregon Health Sciences
University, 3181 SW Samuel Jackson Park Road, Portland, OR 97201, (3)
Department
of Public Health and Preventive Medicine, Oregon Health Sciences University,
3181 S.W. Sam Jackson Park Road, Portland, OR 97201-3098
While recent years have witnessed a 25% increase in the use of complementary
and alternative medications, none of these have come into widespread use in
the treatment of opiate dependence. Ibogaine, an hallucinogenic substance from
the bark of the Iboga tree in Gabon, has enjoyed a cult following in Europe
and
Africa for some time. Enthusiasts claim that after ingesting Ibogaine once,
their desire for heroin is gone forever. The drug has not been approved by the
FDA for use in the United States since animal studies in this country have not
been conclusive. To discover whether the treatment community would approve of
using Ibogaine treat heroin dependency, Brandeis and Oregon Health & Sciences
University surveyed 1,461 clients and counselors in residential, outpatient
and methadone programs in Massachusetts and Oregon. Using the Azjen-Fishbein
Theory of Reasoned Action as a theoretical framework, the 8 page questionnaire
focused on four medications that are used to treat heroin addiction: Ibogaine,
Buprenorphine, Methadone and Clonidine. Multiple regression analysis was used
to identify demographic characteristics, normative influences and attitudinal
factors that were associated with intentions to take Ibogaine. Although 10% of
clients and counselors had heard of Ibogaine, none of them had ever used this
medication. A substantial minority of 12%, or 161 people, however, claimed
that they would use Ibogaine if they had the opportunity. Males, clients (as
opposed to counselors), individuals in outpatient clinics, blacks respondents
and
respondents with less education were more likely to say that they intended to
use Ibogaine.
Learning Objectives:

After attending this session, the audience should be able to (* identify the
benefits and drawbacks of Ibogaine, a herbal medication for drug addiction; (
*   describe why treatment programs may be more receptive to herbal
medications than to conventional pharmaceuticals; (
*   discuss whether or not Ibogaine should be approved for use in the U.S.

Keywords: Drug Abuse Treatment, Alternative Medicine/Therapies
Presenting author’s disclosure statement:
I do not have any significant financial interest/arrangement or affiliation
with any organization/institution whose products or services are being
discussed in this session.
Substance Abuse Treatment Experiences Poster Session
The 132nd Annual Meeting (November 6-10, 2004) of APHA

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From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] no wonder he wants everyone on meds!
Date: July 30, 2004 at 12:14:40 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sara, you ask the right questions and make the right statements.
Julian

From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] MARIJUANA RESEARCH LAWSUITS TO BE FILED
Date: July 30, 2004 at 11:06:54 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Just think of all the IMPORTANT things that need attention from the FDA that
are ignored – money, time, etc. ……in order to pursue this senseless and
harmful
activity.

I’m angry and disgusted and worried about a government that controls too
many parts of our life that has no better ability to make intelligent
decisions.

ann
think@francomm.com

—– Original Message —–
From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 11:50 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] MARIJUANA RESEARCH LAWSUITS TO BE FILED

MARIJUANA RESEARCH LAWSUITS TO BE FILED

Author:  Holly Angelo; Published:  Thursday, July 22, 2004

Copyright:  2004 The Republican (Springfield, MA)

Website: http://www.masslive.com/republican/  Amherst —

All Lyle E. Craker wants to do is grow marijuana in his lab at the

University of Massachusetts to supply other scientists with the plant so

studies about its medicinal benefits can take place.  But after filing

an application with the federal Drug Enforcement Administration in June

2001 to establish a facility on the Amherst campus to produce marijuana

for U.S. Food and Drug Administration-approved research, he hasn’t

received a yes or no.

To get an answer, Craker has teamed with two other parties as plaintiffs

in one of two lawsuits scheduled to be filed today that accuses the

federal government with obstructing medical marijuana research.

“I’m hoping the lawsuit will bring a response,” Craker said from his

office in Stockbridge Hall yesterday, where he is the director of the

medicinal plant program and member of the department of plant, soil and

insect sciences.  “It’s unfortunate, but the issue probably has to be

forced here (in the courts).”

The two suits are supposed to be filed in the U.S. Court of Appeals in

Washington, D.C.  The first suit is filed by the Multidisciplinary

Association for Psychedelic Studies; Craker and Valerie Corral, a

California-licensed medical marijuana patient and caregiver, against the

Drug Enforcement Administration.  It seeks a decision on Craker’s

request and a request by Chemic Laboratories of Canton to import 10

grams of marijuana from the Dutch Office of Medicinal Cannabis, for use

in a medical marijuana research project investigating the safety

advantages of a nonsmoking delivery device for marijuana by a vaporizer.

The second suit is filed by the association and Corral against the

federal Department of Health and Human Services, the National Institute

on Drug Abuse and the National Institutes of Health.  It also seeks a

final ruling by the agencies on Chemic’s request for marijuana and the

vaporizer study.

The Drug Enforcement Administration and National Institute on Drug Abuse

would not comment on the suits.

“We’re arguing unreasonable delay,” said Rick E. Doblin, president of

the association, based in Sarasota, Fla.  “We are blocked from growing

our own (marijuana) at UMass Amherst.  We are blocked from importing

from the Dutch Office of Medicinal Cannabis, and we are blocked from

purchasing from the government’s supply.”

U.S. Senators John F. Kerry and Edward M. Kennedy sent a letter to the

Drug Enforcement Administration in October 2003 expressing support for

the UMass-Amherst marijuana research production facility.

—————-

MAPS_Forum@maps.org, a member service of the Multidisciplinary Association

for Psychedelic Studies (see www.maps.org/cgi-bin/thatsanorder_LE ).

To [un]subscribe, email the message text,

[un]subscribe maps_forum youraddress to majordomo@maps.org

List archives can be browsed at www.maps.org/forum

Guidelines for authors: www.maps.org/guidelines.txt

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine, and hewlett packard
Date: July 30, 2004 at 7:03:53 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Your not really in that bad of a position.  You’ve been waiting so long a
little while longer won’t hurt.<

I know, I know, I win either way, whether I get the part or not.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 2:27 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine, and hewlett packard

Hi Preston,

Hey, what’s the problem, you do the commercial, make some money, then do the
igobo and clean up and maybe have insurance to boot.  Not to mention the
fact that maybe you can do another and another and be in better shape.  Your
not really in that bad of a position.  You’ve been waiting so long a little
while longer won’t hurt.  Maybe good luck is coming your way.  I’m wishing
you the best and I think the others are too.

Best to ya,

– JIM

HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 7/29/04 1:23:50 PM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

<< Hey all- as I just wrote to my drugwar list too- please wish well in my

direction,

as it looked like I was going to actually be trying ibogaine in the very,

very near future, but now it looks like I have to put it off a week or so

due to getting a call-back for a Hewlett Packard commercial tonight- which

shoots all week next week. I can’t BELIEVE I’m bumming out at the

possibility of landing a principle part in a commercial (if I get it- that’s

MEDICAL INSURANCE FINALLY!!! I mean, one has to make a certain amount in a

year’s time through SAG to qualify for insurance, which I’ve never done in

the last 6 and a half, nearly 7 years of being in SAG) due to wanting to try

ibogaine.

Weird how “god” works, no? Telling me to! “hurry up and be patient.”

So anyway, think good stong thoughts my way please- if I do land this

stinkin’ commercial I have to see my pain doc a week early to make sure I

have enough pain meds to get through 6 days of commercial shooting- egad.

I’m soooo confused feeling right now.

Hi Preston,

Do you play an ibogaine patient who increases hp efficiency some hundreds of
percent due to the miraculous effects of ibogaine? OK I will stop now.

Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [drugwar] Fw: [ibogaine] MARIJUANA RESEARCH LAWSUITS TO BE FILED
Date: July 30, 2004 at 7:02:04 AM EDT
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: drugwar@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 11:50 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] MARIJUANA RESEARCH LAWSUITS TO BE FILED

MARIJUANA RESEARCH LAWSUITS TO BE FILED

Author:  Holly Angelo; Published:  Thursday, July 22, 2004

Copyright:  2004 The Republican (Springfield, MA)

Website: http://www.masslive.com/republican/  Amherst —

All Lyle E. Craker wants to do is grow marijuana in his lab at the

University of Massachusetts to supply other scientists with the plant so

studies about its medicinal benefits can take place.  But after filing

an application with the federal Drug Enforcement Administration in June

2001 to establish a facility on the Amherst campus to produce marijuana

for U.S. Food and Drug Administration-approved research, he hasn’t

received a yes or no.

To get an answer, Craker has teamed with two other parties as plaintiffs

in one of two lawsuits scheduled to be filed today that accuses the

federal government with obstructing medical marijuana research.

“I’m hoping the lawsuit will bring a response,” Craker said from his

office in Stockbridge Hall yesterday, where he is the director of the

medicinal plant program and member of the department of plant, soil and

insect sciences.  “It’s unfortunate, but the issue probably has to be

forced here (in the courts).”

The two suits are supposed to be filed in the U.S. Court of Appeals in

Washington, D.C.  The first suit is filed by the Multidisciplinary

Association for Psychedelic Studies; Craker and Valerie Corral, a

California-licensed medical marijuana patient and caregiver, against the

Drug Enforcement Administration.  It seeks a decision on Craker’s

request and a request by Chemic Laboratories of Canton to import 10

grams of marijuana from the Dutch Office of Medicinal Cannabis, for use

in a medical marijuana research project investigating the safety

advantages of a nonsmoking delivery device for marijuana by a vaporizer.

The second suit is filed by the association and Corral against the

federal Department of Health and Human Services, the National Institute

on Drug Abuse and the National Institutes of Health.  It also seeks a

final ruling by the agencies on Chemic’s request for marijuana and the

vaporizer study.

The Drug Enforcement Administration and National Institute on Drug Abuse

would not comment on the suits.

“We’re arguing unreasonable delay,” said Rick E. Doblin, president of

the association, based in Sarasota, Fla.  “We are blocked from growing

our own (marijuana) at UMass Amherst.  We are blocked from importing

from the Dutch Office of Medicinal Cannabis, and we are blocked from

purchasing from the government’s supply.”

U.S. Senators John F. Kerry and Edward M. Kennedy sent a letter to the

Drug Enforcement Administration in October 2003 expressing support for

the UMass-Amherst marijuana research production facility.

—————-

MAPS_Forum@maps.org, a member service of the Multidisciplinary Association

for Psychedelic Studies (see www.maps.org/cgi-bin/thatsanorder_LE ).

To [un]subscribe, email the message text,

[un]subscribe maps_forum youraddress to majordomo@maps.org

List archives can be browsed at www.maps.org/forum

Guidelines for authors: www.maps.org/guidelines.txt

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] no wonder he wants everyone on meds!
Date: July 30, 2004 at 2:55:00 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi All,
In a message dated 7/29/04 3:10:01 PM, sara119@xs4all.nl writes:
<< Maybe he is going to have his own private army?  >>
That may be the secret service or the US military.
Howard

I think it would be more like the space cadets.

D. H. said something like it begins with i and ends with e

He would still be a moron

– JIM

HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 7/29/04 3:10:01 PM, sara119@xs4all.nl writes:

<< Maybe he is going to have his own private army? >>

That may be the secret service or the US military.

Howard

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From: raven <raven@darkwingbird.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] no wonder he wants everyone on meds!
Date: July 30, 2004 at 2:54:00 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

BUSH:
Wrecks his bike and smacks his head…shows up with scrapes to confirm the story.
Chokes on a pretzel, passes out, and smacks his head…shows up with scrapes and bruises to confirm the story.
Reports of Nixon-like tirades against his “enemies.”
Reports that he’s on anti-depressants due to anger and stress.

My vote, as a former counselor and methadone pimp, says he’s still drinking heavy, and they just sober him up and pump him full of pills when it’s time to slap him up on stage. He’s a whack-job. All his press conferences are scripted, and when he has to field a real question, posed unexpectedly, he gets that “deer in the headlights’ sort of look and can barely mumble his way through.

-RickV

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] no wonder he wants everyone on meds!
Date: July 30, 2004 at 2:41:04 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi All,

I love this country, it’s the politicians I do not like.  Oh well, I guess I can do my part.  I’ll volunteer to be in charge of the poppy fields.I

– JIM
Sara Glatt <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:
This must be some propaganda,  how powerful his medication is? How many times a day is he taking them? maybe he had them for his wife or just for a bad day?
Why would he take medication in the first place? Does his Doctor knows what privacy is?   his is the president he doesn’t need to be depressed ,
He is powerful has nice family and lot of cash, the only thing is  his father isn’t so happy to have him out of office,
It isn’t so easy to “let Go” , addiction to a powerful position. How is he going to get Osama?  Who is going to control the opium fields in Afghanistan?
Maybe he is going to have his own private army?
This man has a lot on his mind , at the same time he has many minds thinking for him,
Just wondering???

S.

Van: Dana Beal [mailto:dana@cures-not-wars.org] 
Verzonden: donderdag 29 juli 2004 21:31
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: [ibogaine] no wonder he wants everyone on meds!

News: Elections/Legislation/Government
George Bush Using Hard-Core Anti-Depressants: Handlers Don’t Want Him Flying
Off The Handle
Submitted by m
Original Publisher: Capitol Hill Blue
From Capitol Hill Blue

Bush Leagues
Bush Using Drugs to Control Depression, Erratic Behavior
By TERESA HAMPTON
Editor, Capitol Hill Blue
Jul 28, 2004, 08:09

President George W. Bush is taking powerful anti-depressant drugs to control
his erratic behavior, depression and paranoia, Capitol Hill Blue has
learned.

The prescription drugs, administered by Col. Richard J. Tubb, the White
House physician, can impair the President’s mental faculties and decrease
both his physical capabilities and his ability to respond to a crisis,
administration aides admit privately.
ŸIt’s a double-edged sword,— says one aide. ŸWe can’t have him flying off
the handle at the slightest provocation but we also need a President who is
alert mentally.—
Angry Bush walked away from reporter’s questions.
Tubb prescribed the anti-depressants after a clearly-upset Bush stormed off
stage on July 8, refusing to answer reporters’ questions about his
relationship with indicted Enron executive Kenneth J. Lay.
ŸKeep those motherfuckers away from me,— he screamed at an aide backstage.
ŸIf you can’t, I’ll find someone who can.—

Bush’s mental stability has become the topic of Washington whispers in
recent months. Capitol Hill Blue first reported on June 4 about increasing
concern among White House aides over the President’s wide mood swings and
obscene outbursts.

Although GOP loyalists dismissed the reports an anti-Bush propaganda, the
reports were later confirmed by prominent George Washington University
psychiatrist Dr. Justin Frank in his book Bush on the Couch: Inside the Mind
of the President. Dr. Frank diagnosed the President as a Ÿparanoid
meglomaniac— and Ÿuntreated alcoholic— whose Ÿlifelong streak of sadism,
ranging from childhood pranks (using firecrackers to explode frogs) to
insulting journalists, gloating over state executions and pumping his hand
gleefully before the bombing of Baghdad— showcase Bush’s instabilities.
©ŸI was really very unsettled by him and I started watching everything he did
and reading what he wrote and watching him on videotape. I felt he was
disturbed,— Dr. Frank said. ŸHe fits the profile of a former drinker whose
alcoholism has been arrested but not treated.—

Dr. Frank’s conclusions have been praised by other prominent psychiatrists,
including Dr. James Grotstein, Professor at UCLA Medical Center, and Dr.
Irvin Yalom, MD, Professor Emeritus at Stanford University Medical School.

The doctors also worry about the wisdom of giving powerful anti-depressant
drugs to a person with a history of chemical dependency. Bush is an admitted
alcoholic, although he never sought treatment in a formal program, and
stories about his cocaine use as a younger man haunted his campaigns for
Texas governor and his first campaign for President.

ŸPresident Bush is an untreated alcoholic with paranoid and megalomaniac
tendencies,— Dr. Frank adds.
The White House did not return phone calls seeking comment on this article.

Although the exact drugs Bush takes to control his depression and behavior
are not known, White House sources say they are Ÿpowerful medications—
designed to bring his erratic actions under control.

While Col. Tubb regularly releases a synopsis of the President’s annual physical, details of
the President’s health and any drugs or treatment he may receive are not
public record and are guarded zealously by the secretive cadre of aides that
surround the President.

Veteran White House watchers say the ability to control information about
Bush’s health, either physical or mental, is similar to Ronald Reagan’s
second term when aides managed to conceal the President’s increasing memory
lapses that signaled the onslaught of Alzheimer’s Disease.

It also brings back memories of Richard Nixon’s final days when the
soon-to-resign President wondered the halls and talked to portraits of
former Presidents. The stories didn’t emerge until after Nixon left office.

One long-time GOP political consultant who  for obvious reasons  asked not
to be identified said he is advising his Republican Congressional candidates
to keep their distance from Bush.

”We have to face the very real possibility that the President of the United
States is loony tunes,” he says sadly. “That’s not good for my candidates,
it’s not good for the party and it’s certainly not good for the country.”

© Copyright 2004 Capitol Hill Blue

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine, and hewlett packard
Date: July 30, 2004 at 2:27:26 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Preston,

Hey, what’s the problem, you do the commercial, make some money, then do the igobo and clean up and maybe have insurance to boot.  Not to mention the fact that maybe you can do another and another and be in better shape.  Your not really in that bad of a position.  You’ve been waiting so long a little while longer won’t hurt.  Maybe good luck is coming your way.  I’m wishing you the best and I think the others are too.

Best to ya,

– JIM

HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 7/29/04 1:23:50 PM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

<< Hey all- as I just wrote to my drugwar list too- please wish well in my

direction,

as it looked like I was going to actually be trying ibogaine in the very,

very near future, but now it looks like I have to put it off a week or so

due to getting a call-back for a Hewlett Packard commercial tonight- which

shoots all week next week. I can’t BELIEVE I’m bumming out at the

possibility of landing a principle part in a commercial (if I get it- that’s

MEDICAL INSURANCE FINALLY!!! I mean, one has to make a certain amount in a

year’s time through SAG to qualify for insurance, which I’ve never done in

the last 6 and a half, nearly 7 years of being in SAG) due to wanting to try

ibogaine.

Weird how “god” works, no? Telling me to “hurry up and be patient.”

So anyway, think good stong thoughts my way please- if I do land this

stinkin’ commercial I have to see my pain doc a week early to make sure I

have enough pain meds to get through 6 days of commercial shooting- egad.

I’m soooo confused feeling right now.

>>

Hi Preston,

Do you play an ibogaine patient who increases hp efficiency some hundreds of
percent due to the miraculous effects of ibogaine? OK I will stop now.

Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] no wonder he wants everyone on meds!
Date: July 30, 2004 at 2:18:58 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi All,

Bush, hmmmmm   I think Thorazine would be a good one for him.  Just my opinion.  Twice he fell off a bike, you would think he would be able to afford training wheels.

– JIM

D H <dave@phantom.com> wrote:

>>
>> Bush Leagues
>> Bush Using Drugs to Control Depression, Erratic Behavior
>> By TERESA HAMPTON
>> Editor, Capitol Hill Blue
>> Jul 28, 2004, 08:09
>>
>
> i wonder what drugs he’s on?

i dunno but i could suggest a few… :^P

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] MARIJUANA RESEARCH LAWSUITS TO BE FILED
Date: July 29, 2004 at 11:50:43 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

MARIJUANA RESEARCH LAWSUITS TO BE FILED

Author:  Holly Angelo; Published:  Thursday, July 22, 2004

Copyright:  2004 The Republican (Springfield, MA)

Website: http://www.masslive.com/republican/  Amherst —

All Lyle E. Craker wants to do is grow marijuana in his lab at the

University of Massachusetts to supply other scientists with the plant so

studies about its medicinal benefits can take place.  But after filing

an application with the federal Drug Enforcement Administration in June

2001 to establish a facility on the Amherst campus to produce marijuana

for U.S. Food and Drug Administration-approved research, he hasn’t

received a yes or no.

To get an answer, Craker has teamed with two other parties as plaintiffs

in one of two lawsuits scheduled to be filed today that accuses the

federal government with obstructing medical marijuana research.

“I’m hoping the lawsuit will bring a response,” Craker said from his

office in Stockbridge Hall yesterday, where he is the director of the

medicinal plant program and member of the department of plant, soil and

insect sciences.  “It’s unfortunate, but the issue probably has to be

forced here (in the courts).”

The two suits are supposed to be filed in the U.S. Court of Appeals in

Washington, D.C.  The first suit is filed by the Multidisciplinary

Association for Psychedelic Studies; Craker and Valerie Corral, a

California-licensed medical marijuana patient and caregiver, against the

Drug Enforcement Administration.  It seeks a decision on Craker’s

request and a request by Chemic Laboratories of Canton to import 10

grams of marijuana from the Dutch Office of Medicinal Cannabis, for use

in a medical marijuana research project investigating the safety

advantages of a nonsmoking delivery device for marijuana by a vaporizer.

The second suit is filed by the association and Corral against the

federal Department of Health and Human Services, the National Institute

on Drug Abuse and the National Institutes of Health.  It also seeks a

final ruling by the agencies on Chemic’s request for marijuana and the

vaporizer study.

The Drug Enforcement Administration and National Institute on Drug Abuse

would not comment on the suits.

“We’re arguing unreasonable delay,” said Rick E. Doblin, president of

the association, based in Sarasota, Fla.  “We are blocked from growing

our own (marijuana) at UMass Amherst.  We are blocked from importing

from the Dutch Office of Medicinal Cannabis, and we are blocked from

purchasing from the government’s supply.”

U.S. Senators John F. Kerry and Edward M. Kennedy sent a letter to the

Drug Enforcement Administration in October 2003 expressing support for

the UMass-Amherst marijuana research production facility.

—————-

MAPS_Forum@maps.org, a member service of the Multidisciplinary Association

for Psychedelic Studies (see www.maps.org/cgi-bin/thatsanorder_LE ).

To [un]subscribe, email the message text,

[un]subscribe maps_forum youraddress to majordomo@maps.org

List archives can be browsed at www.maps.org/forum

Guidelines for authors: www.maps.org/guidelines.txt

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine, and hewlett packard
Date: July 29, 2004 at 9:51:48 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Your probably there sweating bullets right now, I’m always late, but, break
a leg dude.<

Thanks Randy.
They changed what they wanted me to audition for at the very last second,
“you look more punk rock than raverish,” but I won’t know until tomorrow if
I got it- so more bullet sweating until then.
Grrr.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 8:07 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine, and hewlett packard

Your probably there sweating bullets right now, I’m always late, but, break
a leg dude. Aint that what you say to them thesbeins ? Really man, I hope
you get it. You deserve to get what you strive for.      Randy

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] no wonder he wants everyone on meds!
Date: July 29, 2004 at 8:17:26 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Bush might be the biggest nut, but he sure isn’t the only prez to take drugs. Some of them did drugs we would be jealous of. Had there own Docs too. Should we start naming names and guessing drugs or just leave it alone? Sounds like fun don’t it.     Randy

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine, and hewlett packard
Date: July 29, 2004 at 8:07:14 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Your probably there sweating bullets right now, I’m always late, but, break a leg dude. Aint that what you say to them thesbeins ? Really man, I hope you get it. You deserve to get what you strive for.      Randy

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine, and hewlett packard
Date: July 29, 2004 at 5:45:58 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

wouldn’t let ANYTHING get in the way,
but, alas , our circumstances, while once being
practically indestinguishable, are now (while obvious
similarities remain) quite diferent..<

Yeah, it’s weird Marcus, but yer right, for having been in such similar
situations not so long ago we’re in vastly different places at the current
moment- while still there are those pesky similarities. Among which just
happen to be opiates, and the fact that we like and somewhat understand each
other.
Plus, “get in the way” could be looked at in very different ways and
mean very different things.
I don’t, un- or for- tunately, depending on the perspective, qualify for
government cheeses.
And gosh knows I love cheeses. Specially government cheeses.
Ok, I’ll stop now, to coin a wise man’s phrase.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “marcus israel” <vesch69@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 5:13 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine, and hewlett packard

Preston,
“all good things in all good time..”

bUt hey man, is it just that you’re not eligable for
the Govt. Cheese, man?
In actuality, MEDICAID is like (in my experiences)
the best, most widely accepted form of med. coverage
going, no?..I mean, my girlfrien works for the NY
LIbrary and her health insurance is always being
really restrictive about what and how much and where
and when she can be sick!!!

Anyway, bro, do what you gotta do, for you,
y’know…me? I wouldn’t let ANYTHING get in the way,
but, alas , our circumstances, while once being
practically indestinguishable, are now (while obvious
similarities remain) quite diferent..
Whatever you do, have lotsof fun,
Marcus

— Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:

Hey all- as I just wrote to my drugwar list too-
please wish well in my
direction,
as it looked like I was going to actually be trying
ibogaine in the very,
very near future, but now it looks like I have to
put it off a week or so
due to getting a call-back for a Hewlett Packard
commercial tonight- which
shoots all week next week. I can’t BELIEVE I’m
bumming out at the
possibility of landing a principle part in a
commercial (if I get it- that’s
MEDICAL INSURANCE FINALLY!!! I mean, one has to make
a certain amount in a
year’s time through SAG to qualify for insurance,
which I’ve never done in
the last 6 and a half, nearly 7 years of being in
SAG) due to wanting to try
ibogaine.
Weird how “god” works, no? Telling me to “hurry up
and be patient.”
So anyway, think good stong thoughts my way please-
if I do land this
stinkin’ commercial I have to see my pain doc a week
early to make sure I
have enough pain meds to get through 6 days of
commercial shooting- egad.
I’m soooo confused feeling right now.

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine, and hewlett packard
Date: July 29, 2004 at 5:39:38 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Do you play an ibogaine patient who increases hp efficiency some hundreds
of
percent due to the miraculous effects of ibogaine?  OK I will stop now.<

LOL, no Howard, but funny enough, I did play a junkie in Central Park in the
tv show called..oh, shit, can’t remember the title, about paramedics and
cops, ummm, name completely jumped right outta my head…ahhh, found it on
Google, an amazing thing that Google, it was called Third Watch, but anyway,
I was in Tompkins Square park being filmed at dawn, about 30 yards or so
away from where I once would greet the dawn with a speedball, morning, after
morning after morning.
And, in a remake of The Prince of Central Park, I also played a busker,
right where I once lived and played guitar for money, in Central Park. So
twice now I’ve played parts that only a couple years prior I’d been living
the real-life part.
But my go-see for this new thing is tonight at 8PM- and hopefully that’s
when I’ll find out for sure whether I got the part or not.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 4:04 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine, and hewlett packard

In a message dated 7/29/04 1:23:50 PM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

<< Hey all- as I just wrote to my drugwar list too- please wish well in my

direction,

as it looked like I was going to actually be trying ibogaine in the very,

very near future, but now it looks like I have to put it off a week or so

due to getting a call-back for a Hewlett Packard commercial tonight- which

shoots all week next week. I can’t BELIEVE I’m bumming out at the

possibility of landing a principle part in a commercial (if I get it-
that’s

MEDICAL INSURANCE FINALLY!!! I mean, one has to make a certain amount in a

year’s time through SAG to qualify for insurance, which I’ve never done in

the last 6 and a half, nearly 7 years of being in SAG) due to wanting to
try

ibogaine.

Weird how “god” works, no? Telling me to “hurry up and be patient.”

So anyway, think good stong thoughts my way please- if I do land this

stinkin’ commercial I have to see my pain doc a week early to make sure I

have enough pain meds to get through 6 days of commercial shooting- egad.

I’m soooo confused feeling right now.

Hi Preston,

Do you play an ibogaine patient who increases hp efficiency some hundreds
of
percent due to the miraculous effects of ibogaine?  OK I will stop now.

Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] no wonder he wants everyone on meds!
Date: July 29, 2004 at 5:26:04 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/29/04 3:10:01 PM, sara119@xs4all.nl writes:

<< Maybe he is going to have his own private army?  >>

That may be the secret service or the US military.

Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: marcus israel <vesch69@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine, and hewlett packard
Date: July 29, 2004 at 5:13:45 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston,
“all good things in all good time..”

bUt hey man, is it just that you’re not eligable for
the Govt. Cheese, man?
In actuality, MEDICAID is like (in my experiences)
the best, most widely accepted form of med. coverage
going, no?..I mean, my girlfrien works for the NY
LIbrary and her health insurance is always being
really restrictive about what and how much and where
and when she can be sick!!!

Anyway, bro, do what you gotta do, for you,
y’know…me? I wouldn’t let ANYTHING get in the way,
but, alas , our circumstances, while once being
practically indestinguishable, are now (while obvious
similarities remain) quite diferent..
Whatever you do, have lotsof fun,
Marcus

— Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:

Hey all- as I just wrote to my drugwar list too-
please wish well in my
direction,
as it looked like I was going to actually be trying
ibogaine in the very,
very near future, but now it looks like I have to
put it off a week or so
due to getting a call-back for a Hewlett Packard
commercial tonight- which
shoots all week next week. I can’t BELIEVE I’m
bumming out at the
possibility of landing a principle part in a
commercial (if I get it- that’s
MEDICAL INSURANCE FINALLY!!! I mean, one has to make
a certain amount in a
year’s time through SAG to qualify for insurance,
which I’ve never done in
the last 6 and a half, nearly 7 years of being in
SAG) due to wanting to try
ibogaine.
Weird how “god” works, no? Telling me to “hurry up
and be patient.”
So anyway, think good stong thoughts my way please-
if I do land this
stinkin’ commercial I have to see my pain doc a week
early to make sure I
have enough pain meds to get through 6 days of
commercial shooting- egad.
I’m soooo confused feeling right now.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – 100MB free storage!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: marcus israel <vesch69@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine, and hewlett packard
Date: July 29, 2004 at 5:13:46 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston,
“all good things in all good time..”

bUt hey man, is it just that you’re not eligable for
the Govt. Cheese, man?
In actuality, MEDICAID is like (in my experiences)
the best, most widely accepted form of med. coverage
going, no?..I mean, my girlfrien works for the NY
LIbrary and her health insurance is always being
really restrictive about what and how much and where
and when she can be sick!!!

Anyway, bro, do what you gotta do, for you,
y’know…me? I wouldn’t let ANYTHING get in the way,
but, alas , our circumstances, while once being
practically indestinguishable, are now (while obvious
similarities remain) quite diferent..
Whatever you do, have lotsof fun,
Marcus

— Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:

Hey all- as I just wrote to my drugwar list too-
please wish well in my
direction,
as it looked like I was going to actually be trying
ibogaine in the very,
very near future, but now it looks like I have to
put it off a week or so
due to getting a call-back for a Hewlett Packard
commercial tonight- which
shoots all week next week. I can’t BELIEVE I’m
bumming out at the
possibility of landing a principle part in a
commercial (if I get it- that’s
MEDICAL INSURANCE FINALLY!!! I mean, one has to make
a certain amount in a
year’s time through SAG to qualify for insurance,
which I’ve never done in
the last 6 and a half, nearly 7 years of being in
SAG) due to wanting to try
ibogaine.
Weird how “god” works, no? Telling me to “hurry up
and be patient.”
So anyway, think good stong thoughts my way please-
if I do land this
stinkin’ commercial I have to see my pain doc a week
early to make sure I
have enough pain meds to get through 6 days of
commercial shooting- egad.
I’m soooo confused feeling right now.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – Send 10MB messages!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] no wonder he wants everyone on meds!
Date: July 29, 2004 at 4:20:33 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

i wonder what drugs he’s on?

i dunno but i could suggest a few… :^P

eheh… how about arsenic or cyanide?  😉

now, now… my first choice begins with an I and ends with an E…

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] no wonder he wants everyone on meds!
Date: July 29, 2004 at 4:15:51 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

i wonder what drugs he’s on?

i dunno but i could suggest a few… :^P

eheh… how about arsenic or cyanide?  😉

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] no wonder he wants everyone on meds!
Date: July 29, 2004 at 4:09:18 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This must be some propaganda,  how powerful his medication is? How many times a day is he taking them? maybe he had them for his wife or just for a bad day?
Why would he take medication in the first place? Does his Doctor knows what privacy is?   his is the president he doesn’t need to be depressed ,
He is powerful has nice family and lot of cash, the only thing is  his father isn’t so happy to have him out of office,
It isn’t so easy to “let Go” , addiction to a powerful position. How is he going to get Osama?  Who is going to control the opium fields in Afghanistan?
Maybe he is going to have his own private army?
This man has a lot on his mind , at the same time he has many minds thinking for him,
Just wondering???

S.

Van: Dana Beal [mailto:dana@cures-not-wars.org] 
Verzonden: donderdag 29 juli 2004 21:31
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: [ibogaine] no wonder he wants everyone on meds!

News: Elections/Legislation/Government
George Bush Using Hard-Core Anti-Depressants: Handlers Don’t Want Him Flying
Off The Handle
Submitted by m
Original Publisher: Capitol Hill Blue
From Capitol Hill Blue

Bush Leagues
Bush Using Drugs to Control Depression, Erratic Behavior
By TERESA HAMPTON
Editor, Capitol Hill Blue
Jul 28, 2004, 08:09

President George W. Bush is taking powerful anti-depressant drugs to control
his erratic behavior, depression and paranoia, Capitol Hill Blue has
learned.

The prescription drugs, administered by Col. Richard J. Tubb, the White
House physician, can impair the President’s mental faculties and decrease
both his physical capabilities and his ability to respond to a crisis,
administration aides admit privately.
¯It’s a double-edged sword,— says one aide. ¯We can’t have him flying off
the handle at the slightest provocation but we also need a President who is
alert mentally.—
Angry Bush walked away from reporter’s questions.
Tubb prescribed the anti-depressants after a clearly-upset Bush stormed off
stage on July 8, refusing to answer reporters’ questions about his
relationship with indicted Enron executive Kenneth J. Lay.
¯Keep those motherfuckers away from me,— he screamed at an aide backstage.
¯If you can’t, I’ll find someone who can.—

Bush’s mental stability has become the topic of Washington whispers in
recent months. Capitol Hill Blue first reported on June 4 about increasing
concern among White House aides over the President’s wide mood swings and
obscene outbursts.

Although GOP loyalists dismissed the reports an anti-Bush propaganda, the
reports were later confirmed by prominent George Washington University
psychiatrist Dr. Justin Frank in his book Bush on the Couch: Inside the Mind
of the President. Dr. Frank diagnosed the President as a ¯paranoid
meglomaniac— and ¯untreated alcoholic— whose ¯lifelong streak of sadism,
ranging from childhood pranks (using firecrackers to explode frogs) to
insulting journalists, gloating over state executions and pumping his hand
gleefully before the bombing of Baghdad— showcase Bush’s instabilities.
©¯I was really very unsettled by him and I started watching everything he did
and reading what he wrote and watching him on videotape. I felt he was
disturbed,— Dr. Frank said. ¯He fits the profile of a former drinker whose
alcoholism has been arrested but not treated.—

Dr. Frank’s conclusions have been praised by other prominent psychiatrists,
including Dr. James Grotstein, Professor at UCLA Medical Center, and Dr.
Irvin Yalom, MD, Professor Emeritus at Stanford University Medical School.

The doctors also worry about the wisdom of giving powerful anti-depressant
drugs to a person with a history of chemical dependency. Bush is an admitted
alcoholic, although he never sought treatment in a formal program, and
stories about his cocaine use as a younger man haunted his campaigns for
Texas governor and his first campaign for President.

¯President Bush is an untreated alcoholic with paranoid and megalomaniac
tendencies,— Dr. Frank adds.
The White House did not return phone calls seeking comment on this article.

Although the exact drugs Bush takes to control his depression and behavior
are not known, White House sources say they are ¯powerful medications—
designed to bring his erratic actions under control.

While Col. Tubb regularly releases a synopsis of the President’s annual physical, details of
the President’s health and any drugs or treatment he may receive are not
public record and are guarded zealously by the secretive cadre of aides that
surround the President.

Veteran White House watchers say the ability to control information about
Bush’s health, either physical or mental, is similar to Ronald Reagan’s
second term when aides managed to conceal the President’s increasing memory
lapses that signaled the onslaught of Alzheimer’s Disease.

It also brings back memories of Richard Nixon’s final days when the
soon-to-resign President wondered the halls and talked to portraits of
former Presidents. The stories didn’t emerge until after Nixon left office.

One long-time GOP political consultant who  for obvious reasons  asked not
to be identified said he is advising his Republican Congressional candidates
to keep their distance from Bush.

”We have to face the very real possibility that the President of the United
States is loony tunes,” he says sadly. “That’s not good for my candidates,
it’s not good for the party and it’s certainly not good for the country.”

© Copyright 2004 Capitol Hill Blue

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine, and hewlett packard
Date: July 29, 2004 at 4:04:19 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/29/04 1:23:50 PM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

<< Hey all- as I just wrote to my drugwar list too- please wish well in my

direction,

as it looked like I was going to actually be trying ibogaine in the very,

very near future, but now it looks like I have to put it off a week or so

due to getting a call-back for a Hewlett Packard commercial tonight- which

shoots all week next week. I can’t BELIEVE I’m bumming out at the

possibility of landing a principle part in a commercial (if I get it- that’s

MEDICAL INSURANCE FINALLY!!! I mean, one has to make a certain amount in a

year’s time through SAG to qualify for insurance, which I’ve never done in

the last 6 and a half, nearly 7 years of being in SAG) due to wanting to try

ibogaine.

Weird how “god” works, no? Telling me to “hurry up and be patient.”

So anyway, think good stong thoughts my way please- if I do land this

stinkin’ commercial I have to see my pain doc a week early to make sure I

have enough pain meds to get through 6 days of commercial shooting- egad.

I’m soooo confused feeling right now.

Hi Preston,

Do you play an ibogaine patient who increases hp efficiency some hundreds of
percent due to the miraculous effects of ibogaine?  OK I will stop now.

Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] no wonder he wants everyone on meds!
Date: July 29, 2004 at 4:03:11 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Bush Leagues
Bush Using Drugs to Control Depression, Erratic Behavior
By TERESA HAMPTON
Editor, Capitol Hill Blue
Jul 28, 2004, 08:09

i wonder what drugs he’s on?

i dunno but i could suggest a few… :^P

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] no wonder he wants everyone on meds!
Date: July 29, 2004 at 3:41:13 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Bush Leagues
Bush Using Drugs to Control Depression, Erratic Behavior
By TERESA HAMPTON
Editor, Capitol Hill Blue
Jul 28, 2004, 08:09

i wonder what drugs he’s on?

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] no wonder he wants everyone on meds!
Date: July 29, 2004 at 3:30:50 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

News: Elections/Legislation/Government
George Bush Using Hard-Core Anti-Depressants: Handlers Don’t Want Him Flying
Off The Handle
Submitted by m
Original Publisher: Capitol Hill Blue
From Capitol Hill Blue

Bush Leagues
Bush Using Drugs to Control Depression, Erratic Behavior
By TERESA HAMPTON
Editor, Capitol Hill Blue
Jul 28, 2004, 08:09

President George W. Bush is taking powerful anti-depressant drugs to control
his erratic behavior, depression and paranoia, Capitol Hill Blue has
learned.

The prescription drugs, administered by Col. Richard J. Tubb, the White
House physician, can impair the President’s mental faculties and decrease
both his physical capabilities and his ability to respond to a crisis,
administration aides admit privately.
¯It’s a double-edged sword,— says one aide. ¯We can’t have him flying off
the handle at the slightest provocation but we also need a President who is
alert mentally.—

Angry Bush walked away from reporter’s questions.
Tubb prescribed the anti-depressants after a clearly-upset Bush stormed off
stage on July 8, refusing to answer reporters’ questions about his
relationship with indicted Enron executive Kenneth J. Lay.
¯Keep those motherfuckers away from me,— he screamed at an aide backstage.
¯If you can’t, I’ll find someone who can.—

Bush’s mental stability has become the topic of Washington whispers in
recent months. Capitol Hill Blue first reported on June 4 about increasing
concern among White House aides over the President’s wide mood swings and
obscene outbursts.

Although GOP loyalists dismissed the reports an anti-Bush propaganda, the
reports were later confirmed by prominent George Washington University
psychiatrist Dr. Justin Frank in his book Bush on the Couch: Inside the Mind
of the President. Dr. Frank diagnosed the President as a ¯paranoid
meglomaniac— and ¯untreated alcoholic— whose ¯lifelong streak of sadism,
ranging from childhood pranks (using firecrackers to explode frogs) to
insulting journalists, gloating over state executions and pumping his hand
gleefully before the bombing of Baghdad— showcase Bush’s instabilities.

©¯I was really very unsettled by him and I started watching everything he did
and reading what he wrote and watching him on videotape. I felt he was
disturbed,— Dr. Frank said. ¯He fits the profile of a former drinker whose
alcoholism has been arrested but not treated.—

Dr. Frank’s conclusions have been praised by other prominent psychiatrists,
including Dr. James Grotstein, Professor at UCLA Medical Center, and Dr.
Irvin Yalom, MD, Professor Emeritus at Stanford University Medical School.

The doctors also worry about the wisdom of giving powerful anti-depressant
drugs to a person with a history of chemical dependency. Bush is an admitted
alcoholic, although he never sought treatment in a formal program, and
stories about his cocaine use as a younger man haunted his campaigns for
Texas governor and his first campaign for President.

¯President Bush is an untreated alcoholic with paranoid and megalomaniac
tendencies,— Dr. Frank adds.

The White House did not return phone calls seeking comment on this article.

Although the exact drugs Bush takes to control his depression and behavior
are not known, White House sources say they are ¯powerful medications—
designed to bring his erratic actions under control.

While Col. Tubb regularly releases a synopsis of the President’s annual physical, details of
the President’s health and any drugs or treatment he may receive are not
public record and are guarded zealously by the secretive cadre of aides that
surround the President.

Veteran White House watchers say the ability to control information about
Bush’s health, either physical or mental, is similar to Ronald Reagan’s
second term when aides managed to conceal the President’s increasing memory
lapses that signaled the onslaught of Alzheimer’s Disease.

It also brings back memories of Richard Nixon’s final days when the
soon-to-resign President wondered the halls and talked to portraits of
former Presidents. The stories didn’t emerge until after Nixon left office.

One long-time GOP political consultant who  for obvious reasons  asked not
to be identified said he is advising his Republican Congressional candidates
to keep their distance from Bush.

“We have to face the very real possibility that the President of the United
States is loony tunes,” he says sadly. “That’s not good for my candidates,
it’s not good for the party and it’s certainly not good for the country.”

© Copyright 2004 Capitol Hill Blue

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] quitting smoking
Date: July 29, 2004 at 3:03:06 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hmmm.. did pot ever really give you the munchies, like when you first
start smoking?

absolutely.

_.dh

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From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] quitting smoking
Date: July 29, 2004 at 2:41:09 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks Jon, yet another sign of my “strangness.” I get hungry sort of from
smoking pot, but, well, it doesn’t seem to drive me to the kitchen very
well.
Peace and love,
Preston

Hmmm.. did pot ever really give you the munchies, like when you first
start smoking?

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] quitting smoking
Date: July 29, 2004 at 2:39:21 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Strangely though,
tolerance to pot’s appetite stimulating effects rarely develops.<

Thanks Jon, yet another sign of my “strangness.” I get hungry sort of from
smoking pot, but, well, it doesn’t seem to drive me to the kitchen very
well.
Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 12:08 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] quitting smoking

Melatonin at night, especially when you wake up in the middle of the
night to pee. The sublinguals–put them up between yr upper lip and
gum after moistening. And smoke pot. Not much, but a couple tokes
everytime you get the urge to smoke. BTW, the reason pot has no
substantial withdrawals is that the cannabidiol is a glutamate
antagonist, which means that every joint has a weak ibo-like effect.
Very weak, but sufficient to block buildup of tolerance to THC. The
melatonin prevents tolerance to the CBD, so you don’t get so much of
the “chronic” effect that causes you to need to smoke pot all the
time.

Ummm. Tolerance to THC and the other cannabinoids both develops and
disipates pretty rapidly, usually within a few days. Strangely though,
tolerance to pot’s appetite stimulating effects rarely develops.

While cannabinol has been shown to antagonise glutamate activity, that
does not mean it works like ibogaine at all. Ibogaine’s anti-addictive
effects seem to be a result of a complex series of interactions with
multiple neurotransmitter systems. At least a couple different ibogaine
studies have shown that glutamate antagonism alone does not produce an
anti-addictive effect. However, cannabinol’s glutamate antagonist activity
is thought to be responsible for it’s neuroprotective effect; as it blocks
cell death induced glutamate cascade.

The suggestion that melatonin in some way modulates cannabinoid tolerance
also seems rather specious to me. Presumably, cannabinoid tolerance
develops as a result of extended stimulation and subsequent
desensitisation of the cannabinoid receptors. Melatonin doesn’t appear to
show any activity at cannabinoid receptors.

Anyway, I know for me, if I was going to try to quit smoking cigarettes,
I’d have to quit pot as well, at least temporarily. i ALWAYS have a cig
right after i finish a bowl, so there’s a VERY strong association for me
there.

It’s all about figuring out your own triggers. But strictly
psychophysiologically speaking, it doesn’t seem likely to me that pot
would have much of an effect on nicotine intake one way or the other.

jon

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] ibogaine, and hewlett packard
Date: July 29, 2004 at 2:23:28 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey all- as I just wrote to my drugwar list too- please wish well in my
direction,
as it looked like I was going to actually be trying ibogaine in the very,
very near future, but now it looks like I have to put it off a week or so
due to getting a call-back for a Hewlett Packard commercial tonight- which
shoots all week next week. I can’t BELIEVE I’m bumming out at the
possibility of landing a principle part in a commercial (if I get it- that’s
MEDICAL INSURANCE FINALLY!!! I mean, one has to make a certain amount in a
year’s time through SAG to qualify for insurance, which I’ve never done in
the last 6 and a half, nearly 7 years of being in SAG) due to wanting to try
ibogaine.
Weird how “god” works, no? Telling me to “hurry up and be patient.”
So anyway, think good stong thoughts my way please- if I do land this
stinkin’ commercial I have to see my pain doc a week early to make sure I
have enough pain meds to get through 6 days of commercial shooting- egad.
I’m soooo confused feeling right now.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Hypothetical question
Date: July 29, 2004 at 1:03:41 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/29/04 5:43:45 AM, BiscuitBoy714@aol.com writes:

<< Here is my hypothetical question or
survey I’d like to run. Poll all Dr.’s in the US and ask them of all the
patients
they have on pain meds, diet pills, and benzo’s how many of them have a
problem with them. Then ask the same of patients all anonymously of course.
How
many of these people would take Ibogaine if given a choice?That is if they
even
know about it.That’s a lot of people to say no to. Information is power.
Power
to the people. Remember that?       Randy >>

Randy,

While not exactly an answer to your question two related questionnaries were
provided to providers and patients. The second abstract has not yet been
presented as the meeting takes place in November 2004.

It might be useful for this list to discuss these abstracts.

Howard

http://apha.confex.com/apha/131am/techprogram/paper_71058.htm

4094.0: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 – Board 2

Abstract #71058

Attitudes toward medication to treat heroin dependency

Marilyn Daley, PhD, Schneider Institute for Health Policy, Heller School for
Social Policy and Management, Brandeis University, MS 035, 415 South Street,
Waltham, MA 02454-9110, 781-736-3906, daley@brandeis.edu, Traci Rieckmann, PhD,
Department of Public Health and Preventive Medicine, Oregon Health Sciences
University, 3181 S.W. Sam Jackson Park Road, Portland, OR 97201-3098, Dennis
McCarty, PhD, Department of Public Helath and Preventive Medicine, Oregon Health
Sciences University, 3181 SW Samuel Jackson Park Road, Portland, OR 97201,
Cindy Thomas, PhD, Brandeis University Schneider Health Policy Institute, Heller
Graduate School, 415 South Street, Waltham, MA 02454, and Kathleen Keck,
MMHS, University of Miami, School of Medicine, Coral Gables, FL 33124.
Despite advances in the development of medications to treat addictive
disorders, they are underutilized in community-based drug treatment programs. To
discover how the treatment community feels about using medication to treat heroin
dependency, Brandeis and Oregon Health Sciences University surveyed clients
and counselors in residential, outpatient and methadone programs in
Massachusetts and Oregon. Using the Azjen-Fishbein Theory of Reasoned Action as a
theoretical framework, focus groups were used to develop a questionnaire which was
subsequently pilot-tested with 83 clients and 61 staff members. Questions focused
on four medications (Methadone, Clonidine, Buprenorphine and Ibogaine).
T-tests, Anovas and multiple regression analyses were used to identify normative
influences, beliefs, expectancies, treatment settings and personal
characteristics that predicted favorable or unfavorable attitudes. Although staff had
become more accepting toward medication due to the increasing prevalence of dual
diagnosis, the effectiveness of many medications and the spread of HIV, most
clients felt that medication interfered with recovery and should only be used for
withdrawal. Methadone was viewed more positively than any of the drugs,
although many were guardedly optimistic about Buprenorphine’s potential. Clonidine
was perceived as ineffective in the treatment of heroin dependence. Counselors
were more receptive to all drugs than clients. Resistance to the use of
pharmacotherapy was particularly pronounced among the former heroin users in
residential programs. A larger survey is underway with 1080 clients and 360
counselors. Results will be used to inform policy and practice regarding the
successful adoption and implementation of effective new practices.
Learning Objectives: 1. Describe at least four major medications that have
been developed to treat heroin dependency 2. Discuss historical barriers to
adopting and implementing new pharmacotherapies in drug abuse treatment programs
3. Identify the social norms, expectancies, beliefs, and values that are
associated with favorable and unfavorable attitudes toward medication 3. Recognize
why developing and testing new medications are important for HIV prevention
Keywords: Drug Abuse Treatment, Injection Drug Users
Related Web page:

Presenting author’s disclosure statement:
Organization/institution whose products or services will be discussed: None
I do not have any significant financial interest/arrangement or affiliation
with any organization/institution whose products or services are being
discussed in this session.
The 131st Annual Meeting (November 15-19, 2003) of APHA

http://apha.confex.com/apha/132am/techprogram/paper_92812.htmhttp://apha.confe
x.com/apha/132am/techprogram/paper_92812.htm

4095.0: Tuesday, November 9, 2004 – Board 8

Abstract #92812

Attitudes toward ibogaine among clients and counselors in drug treatment
programs
Marilyn C. Daley, PhD1, Dennis McCarty, PhD2, Cindy Parks Thomas, PA, PhD1,
and Traci Rieckmann, PhD3. (1) Schneider Institute for Health Policy, Brandeis
University, Heller School for Social Policy and Management, P.O. Box 9110, 415
South Street, Waltham, MA 02454-9110, 781-736-3906, daley@brandeis.edu, (2)
Department of Public Helath and Preventive Medicine, Oregon Health Sciences
University, 3181 SW Samuel Jackson Park Road, Portland, OR 97201, (3) Department
of Public Health and Preventive Medicine, Oregon Health Sciences University,
3181 S.W. Sam Jackson Park Road, Portland, OR 97201-3098
While recent years have witnessed a 25% increase in the use of complementary
and alternative medications, none of these have come into widespread use in
the treatment of opiate dependence. Ibogaine, an hallucinogenic substance from
the bark of the Iboga tree in Gabon, has enjoyed a cult following in Europe and
Africa for some time. Enthusiasts claim that after ingesting Ibogaine once,
their desire for heroin is gone forever. The drug has not been approved by the
FDA for use in the United States since animal studies in this country have not
been conclusive. To discover whether the treatment community would approve of
using Ibogaine treat heroin dependency, Brandeis and Oregon Health & Sciences
University surveyed 1,461 clients and counselors in residential, outpatient
and methadone programs in Massachusetts and Oregon. Using the Azjen-Fishbein
Theory of Reasoned Action as a theoretical framework, the 8 page questionnaire
focused on four medications that are used to treat heroin addiction: Ibogaine,
Buprenorphine, Methadone and Clonidine. Multiple regression analysis was used
to identify demographic characteristics, normative influences and attitudinal
factors that were associated with intentions to take Ibogaine. Although 10% of
clients and counselors had heard of Ibogaine, none of them had ever used this
medication. A substantial minority of 12%, or 161 people, however, claimed
that they would use Ibogaine if they had the opportunity. Males, clients (as
opposed to counselors), individuals in outpatient clinics, blacks respondents and
respondents with less education were more likely to say that they intended to
use Ibogaine.
Learning Objectives:

After attending this session, the audience should be able to (* identify the
benefits and drawbacks of Ibogaine, a herbal medication for drug addiction; (
*   describe why treatment programs may be more receptive to herbal
medications than to conventional pharmaceuticals; (
*   discuss whether or not Ibogaine should be approved for use in the U.S.

Keywords: Drug Abuse Treatment, Alternative Medicine/Therapies
Presenting author’s disclosure statement:
I do not have any significant financial interest/arrangement or affiliation
with any organization/institution whose products or services are being
discussed in this session.
Substance Abuse Treatment Experiences Poster Session
The 132nd Annual Meeting (November 6-10, 2004) of APHA

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From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] quitting smoking
Date: July 29, 2004 at 12:08:46 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Melatonin at night, especially when you wake up in the middle of the
night to pee. The sublinguals–put them up between yr upper lip and
gum after moistening. And smoke pot. Not much, but a couple tokes
everytime you get the urge to smoke. BTW, the reason pot has no
substantial withdrawals is that the cannabidiol is a glutamate
antagonist, which means that every joint has a weak ibo-like effect.
Very weak, but sufficient to block buildup of tolerance to THC. The
melatonin prevents tolerance to the CBD, so you don’t get so much of
the “chronic” effect that causes you to need to smoke pot all the
time.

Ummm. Tolerance to THC and the other cannabinoids both develops and
disipates pretty rapidly, usually within a few days. Strangely though,
tolerance to pot’s appetite stimulating effects rarely develops.

While cannabinol has been shown to antagonise glutamate activity, that
does not mean it works like ibogaine at all. Ibogaine’s anti-addictive
effects seem to be a result of a complex series of interactions with
multiple neurotransmitter systems. At least a couple different ibogaine
studies have shown that glutamate antagonism alone does not produce an
anti-addictive effect. However, cannabinol’s glutamate antagonist activity
is thought to be responsible for it’s neuroprotective effect; as it blocks
cell death induced glutamate cascade.

The suggestion that melatonin in some way modulates cannabinoid tolerance
also seems rather specious to me. Presumably, cannabinoid tolerance
develops as a result of extended stimulation and subsequent
desensitisation of the cannabinoid receptors. Melatonin doesn’t appear to
show any activity at cannabinoid receptors.

Anyway, I know for me, if I was going to try to quit smoking cigarettes,
I’d have to quit pot as well, at least temporarily. i ALWAYS have a cig
right after i finish a bowl, so there’s a VERY strong association for me
there.

It’s all about figuring out your own triggers. But strictly
psychophysiologically speaking, it doesn’t seem likely to me that pot
would have much of an effect on nicotine intake one way or the other.

jon

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Hypothetical question
Date: July 29, 2004 at 6:42:49 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Mindvoxians,    didn’t I see someone say something in a post in the past few days about the laws in N.Y. state concerning patient records, i.e. EKG, blood work and the like? I plan to get my records from my visit to the ER to show my provider what good shape my heart, and blood work are in. One good thing I got from my successful treatment for Hep C. was to see that I hadn’t done any major damage to myself not even any cirrhosis, none!! I couldn’t believe it. I drank like a fish with cotton mouth for years. Matter of fact I went from junkie to drunky ever time I got on Meth except this one. I haven’t been good and drunk in about 10 years, thank God! Here is my hypothetical question or survey I’d like to run. Poll all Dr.’s in the US and ask them of all the patients they have on pain meds, diet pills, and benzo’s how many of them have a problem with them. Then ask the same of patients all anonymously of course. How many of these people would take Ibogaine if given a choice?That is if they even know about it.That’s a lot of people to say no to. Information is power. Power to the people. Remember that?       Randy

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] Ibogaine gets the Reefer Madnesstreatment in UK newspaper
Date: July 28, 2004 at 10:53:08 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks kindly Hattie,
This is a bit of a relief I guess.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Hattie” <epoptica@freeuk.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 3:31 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] Ibogaine gets the Reefer
Madnesstreatment in UK newspaper

Hey Preston,

The Sunday Mercury is marginal….. I had never heard of it until now! I
was
contacted by a reporter in the midlands a few weeks ago who said she was
writing for a local paper up there which must be this.

Local papers don’t get read that widely and certainly noone in the south
of
the country would ever get to see it. Slightly worrying about the
discussion
with the department for health. However we have to remember there has been
loads of really positive press recently most of which has been in the
mainstream media – The BBC, The Observer and the Daily Mirror.

The Mercury……well someone was bound to write that type of piece and
luckily it was only a local.

Hattie

Here’s comes that slightly trepidatious feeling again.
But hey, no risk, no gain, right?
Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Robert Merkin” <bobmerk@earthlink.net>
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 2:03 PM
Subject: [drugwar] Ibogaine gets the Reefer Madness treatment in UK
newspaper

Don’t think i’m subscribed to ibogaine List, so can someone please
forward
this to ibogaine@mindvox.com ?

It seems the Sunday Mercury, with this one story, has just discovered
the
existence of ibogaine, and has determined it is Bad & Dangerous.

Elmer

URL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v04.n1062.a02.html
Newshawk: Herb
Pubdate: Sun, 18 Jul 2004
Source: Sunday Mercury (UK)
Copyright: 2004 Sunday Mercury
Contact: SundayMercury@mrn.co.uk
Website:
http://icbirmingham.icnetwork.co.uk/2050ourpapers/0300sundaymercury/
Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/3167
Author: Caroline Wheeler

DEADLY ‘CURE’ FOR JUNKIES

A ‘miracle drug’ which claims to cure heroin addicts in just ONE day
has
already been linked to four deaths.

Although it can be obtained officially only on prescription, the Sunday
Mercury was able to buy some for UKP 30 on the internet.

Manufacturers say Ibogaine works by instantly relieving withdrawal
symptoms
and suppressing cravings for heroin and cocaine.

The toxic substance is so powerful that it can only be prescribed by
doctors – but our reporter was able to buy a derivative of it over the
internet with no questions asked.

In the past, Ibogaine treatment has only been available privately at
UKP
500 a time.

But the Sunday Mercury has discovered that Midland addicts are buying
it
illegally from an online herbalist.

Now Ibogaine therapists, who offer expensive treatment programmes, are
warning the DIY detox approach could kill.

“It is not advisable for drug addicts to attempt an Ibogaine treatment
programme on their own,” one therapist said.

“Everyone reacts differently to Ibogaine and it could be dangerous if
you
don’t know what you are doing.  It has been known for people to die
after
taking Ibogaine.”

It is believed four people have died from taking the drug, including
one
in
Britain.

Ibogaine is an unlicensed drug in the UK, and cannot be sold without a
prescription.  But despite this restriction, one UK distributor
continues
to sell a derivative of the drug online.

Last week, the Sunday Mercury bought 10 grammes of Iboga root bark
capsules
for UKP 28.98.

In an e-mail exchange the webmaster told our reporter: “I am the only
salesman of Iboga in England and supply it to people all over the
country,
including in the Midlands.

“Most of my customers have been mothers who are desperate to get their
kids
off drugs.  One of them told me she has a son who was hooked on heroin
and
crack.  Iboga got him off the stuff.”

We contacted the seller later to tell him what he was doing was
illegal.

“I was unaware that the Department of Health said selling Ibogaine is
illegal,” he claimed.  “Thanks for the tip.  However, I only sell
Ibogaine
root bark so it should be OK.”

Last night, a spokesman for the Department of Health advised our
reporter
to alert the Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency.

<]=———————————————————————–=[

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.drugwar.com           ]
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|
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From: Hattie <epoptica@freeuk.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] Ibogaine gets the Reefer Madness treatment in UK newspaper
Date: July 27, 2004 at 3:31:09 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Preston,

The Sunday Mercury is marginal….. I had never heard of it until now! I was
contacted by a reporter in the midlands a few weeks ago who said she was
writing for a local paper up there which must be this.

Local papers don’t get read that widely and certainly noone in the south of
the country would ever get to see it. Slightly worrying about the discussion
with the department for health. However we have to remember there has been
loads of really positive press recently most of which has been in the
mainstream media – The BBC, The Observer and the Daily Mirror.

The Mercury……well someone was bound to write that type of piece and
luckily it was only a local.

Hattie

Here’s comes that slightly trepidatious feeling again.
But hey, no risk, no gain, right?
Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Robert Merkin” <bobmerk@earthlink.net>
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 2:03 PM
Subject: [drugwar] Ibogaine gets the Reefer Madness treatment in UK
newspaper

Don’t think i’m subscribed to ibogaine List, so can someone please forward
this to ibogaine@mindvox.com ?

It seems the Sunday Mercury, with this one story, has just discovered the
existence of ibogaine, and has determined it is Bad & Dangerous.

Elmer

URL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v04.n1062.a02.html
Newshawk: Herb
Pubdate: Sun, 18 Jul 2004
Source: Sunday Mercury (UK)
Copyright: 2004 Sunday Mercury
Contact: SundayMercury@mrn.co.uk
Website:
http://icbirmingham.icnetwork.co.uk/2050ourpapers/0300sundaymercury/
Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/3167
Author: Caroline Wheeler

DEADLY ‘CURE’ FOR JUNKIES

A ‘miracle drug’ which claims to cure heroin addicts in just ONE day has
already been linked to four deaths.

Although it can be obtained officially only on prescription, the Sunday
Mercury was able to buy some for UKP 30 on the internet.

Manufacturers say Ibogaine works by instantly relieving withdrawal
symptoms
and suppressing cravings for heroin and cocaine.

The toxic substance is so powerful that it can only be prescribed by
doctors – but our reporter was able to buy a derivative of it over the
internet with no questions asked.

In the past, Ibogaine treatment has only been available privately at UKP
500 a time.

But the Sunday Mercury has discovered that Midland addicts are buying it
illegally from an online herbalist.

Now Ibogaine therapists, who offer expensive treatment programmes, are
warning the DIY detox approach could kill.

“It is not advisable for drug addicts to attempt an Ibogaine treatment
programme on their own,” one therapist said.

“Everyone reacts differently to Ibogaine and it could be dangerous if you
don’t know what you are doing.  It has been known for people to die after
taking Ibogaine.”

It is believed four people have died from taking the drug, including one
in
Britain.

Ibogaine is an unlicensed drug in the UK, and cannot be sold without a
prescription.  But despite this restriction, one UK distributor continues
to sell a derivative of the drug online.

Last week, the Sunday Mercury bought 10 grammes of Iboga root bark
capsules
for UKP 28.98.

In an e-mail exchange the webmaster told our reporter: “I am the only
salesman of Iboga in England and supply it to people all over the country,
including in the Midlands.

“Most of my customers have been mothers who are desperate to get their
kids
off drugs.  One of them told me she has a son who was hooked on heroin and
crack.  Iboga got him off the stuff.”

We contacted the seller later to tell him what he was doing was illegal.

“I was unaware that the Department of Health said selling Ibogaine is
illegal,” he claimed.  “Thanks for the tip.  However, I only sell Ibogaine
root bark so it should be OK.”

Last night, a spokesman for the Department of Health advised our reporter
to alert the Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency.

<]=———————————————————————–=[

[           Moderated by: Preston Peet |
.drugwar.com           ]
|          -=/[ To Subscribe: drugwar-subscribe@mindvox.com ]/=-
|
|             To Unsubscribe: drugwar-unsubscribe@mindvox.com
|
[   DrugWar List in Digest Format:
ugwar-digest-subscribe@mindvox.com   ]

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From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] qotd
Date: July 28, 2004 at 12:37:55 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Excellent Thoughts.

Julian

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] IMPORTANT- any EKG suggestions?
Date: July 28, 2004 at 12:32:41 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks Sean. I just wrote back a message saying that. That’s all I was doing. Have a good one.
Julian

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] IMPORTANT- any EKG suggestions?
Date: July 28, 2004 at 12:30:34 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Ann. No I’m not at all irritated. I was just welcoming you. I’m sorry if my message came off differently. I think my point was you do not need to be a junkie to enjoy and communicate on this message center. Sometimes I talk too much when I try to make a point and maybe my point doesn’t get made due to that. Enjoy and have a great day!
Julian

From: iboga@ziplip.com <iboga@ziplip.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] qotd
Date: July 28, 2004 at 12:18:56 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“Be Strong.         Love”

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] IMPORTANT- any EKG suggestions?
Date: July 28, 2004 at 10:28:13 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Ann,

Thank you for the info.  Should you find the url please send it to me, you can write me at yahoo and keep it off the net.  Maybe I can get some before it becomes illeagel or do an experiment of some kind.

No, your not guilty of chasing rainbows, just looking for the best way out.  What’s wrong with that?  You will be surprized at what you might find.  There is some guy in Cambodia or Thailand or somewhere around there who has a formula that makes kicking mainly painless but no one know his net address and it may very well be legal.  The government doesn’t have time to check all herbs.  Then when it works and people want it then they check it and say it is dangerous and make it illeagel.

Again, thanks for the info., it is very much appreciated.

Best to ya Ann,

– JIM

“Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com> wrote:
MC 18 is a fragment of the Ibogaine molecule.  Stanley Glick at Albany Medical Center is supposedly
working on it.  It hopefully will have the effectiveness of ibogaine as far as antiaddictive properties
without the negative side effects.  I’m just curious (to say the least) about what the latest news is
about it   I once found a website about his work with an email address and an open invitation to
contact him.  I have not been successful in the past couple of days in finding that website again.
I am quite guilty of chasing rainbows and looking for information when there just aint none!!  Anybody
know the URL?

ann

—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 8:37 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] IMPORTANT- any EKG suggestions?

Hi Sean,

Just thought I would mention something that I have done before.  See, I used to move from here to there and docs would die or move etc.  So I started requesting a copy of my blood work.  That way I can track it and see if it is getting better or worse.  Also, see if they will give you a viral load test.  That is testing how may bug or virus per ml is in you system.  Just a tip I thought I would pass on.

As far as Julian I don’t see anything wrong with what he said.   He don’t like the system, I think he has company – lol.   Hey, what is this mc 18?  or something like that a post or two down?  I never heard of it.  Any way I can get it, what is it suppose to do.  Detail is not necessary just a sentence or two.

Well, tomorrow I see the bupe doc.  Hope it gives me energy and eases depression.  I feel so week.  There are 80 year old men who get around more than me.

Best to all,

– JIM

UUSEAN@aol.com wrote:

Hi Ann,

Maybe I’m wrong, but I took Julian’s post to be a WELCOME TO MINDVOX!

Sean

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete – You start. We finish.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] All’s Well
Date: July 28, 2004 at 5:39:08 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey all,     I want to thank everyone for the concern and the links that were shown to me on this list. It just goes to prove what I all ways thought. Most addicts are people with an extremely large amount of heart. Its great to have a place like this to show it and not get it stomped on. At least not most of the time anyway. hehe     THANX  Randy

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] All’s Well
Date: July 28, 2004 at 5:26:56 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Howard wrote”Stanley Glick is a good guy. You should visit. Of course that doesn’t mean there wont be picket lines outside demanding MC-18.”           I’ve been looking for a way to do my part for the cause. I live 45 minutes away, just tell me when to be there.       Randy

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] Ibogaine gets the Reefer Madness treatment in UK…
Date: July 28, 2004 at 5:07:36 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

If someone wants to be F*cked up they always can find a new drug which isn’t in the vaccination programme.
As long as the “why people use drug?”isn’t solved there will be just a change but not a solution.
I agree with you Julian the solution is Legalization and education.

S.

Van: Sapphirestardus@aol.com [mailto:Sapphirestardus@aol.com] 
Verzonden: dinsdag 27 juli 2004 23:02
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] Ibogaine gets the Reefer Madness treatment in UK…

Hello Howard. You know, I won’t even go into the Orwellian aspect of this vaccination concept, soon to be vaccination reality. It would be too easy to blow it apart by it’s “BIG BROTHER” seams!! What causes me to erupt is how simple the solution to the drug problem is!! It is right in front of everyone’s eyes and yet our culture, our society and great civilization refuses to even nod in it’s direction! LEGALIZATION!!!! The folly of litigating morality has been lost on the great minds of this era. Even with proof of it’s failure smacking us in the face with Prohibition in the twenties and The Drug War of the late twentieth century, we still play very dangerous games with ourselves. Vaccinating our children? What scares me the most is most of this country and much of the world not only sees this as an important and necessary step towards fighting the evils of ‘Euphoria’ but also as a miracle!!! It is ‘cultural cancer’ 

            I have to stop myself because there are certain topics that press all my buttons and enable me to talk or write forever! This is not only one of them, it is by far the most severe of all!!! If I could only find an island somewhere and start my own society. Fuck me!! Have a great day all of you! 
                                                                              Julian

From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] IMPORTANT- any EKG suggestions?
Date: July 28, 2004 at 3:14:12 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

MC 18 is a fragment of the Ibogaine molecule.  Stanley Glick at Albany Medical Center is supposedly
working on it.  It hopefully will have the effectiveness of ibogaine as far as antiaddictive properties
without the negative side effects.  I’m just curious (to say the least) about what the latest news is
about it   I once found a website about his work with an email address and an open invitation to
contact him.  I have not been successful in the past couple of days in finding that website again.
I am quite guilty of chasing rainbows and looking for information when there just aint none!!  Anybody
know the URL?

ann

—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 8:37 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] IMPORTANT- any EKG suggestions?

Hi Sean,

Just thought I would mention something that I have done before.  See, I used to move from here to there and docs would die or move etc.  So I started requesting a copy of my blood work.  That way I can track it and see if it is getting better or worse.  Also, see if they will give you a viral load test.  That is testing how may bug or virus per ml is in you system.  Just a tip I thought I would pass on.

As far as Julian I don’t see anything wrong with what he said.   He don’t like the system, I think he has company – lol.   Hey, what is this mc 18?  or something like that a post or two down?  I never heard of it.  Any way I can get it, what is it suppose to do.  Detail is not necessary just a sentence or two.

Well, tomorrow I see the bupe doc.  Hope it gives me energy and eases depression.  I feel so week.  There are 80 year old men who get around more than me.

Best to all,

– JIM

UUSEAN@aol.com wrote:

Hi Ann,

Maybe I’m wrong, but I took Julian’s post to be a WELCOME TO MINDVOX!

Sean

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete – You start. We finish.

From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] IMPORTANT- any EKG suggestions?
Date: July 28, 2004 at 3:00:50 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ok, thanks a lot for the explain, I am short of vocabulary and on a learning curve, but I
sure do mean well.

ann
—– Original Message —–
From: UUSEAN@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 7:22 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] IMPORTANT- any EKG suggestions?

Hi Ann,

Maybe I’m wrong, but I took Julian’s post to be a WELCOME TO MINDVOX!

Sean

From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] IMPORTANT- any EKG suggestions?
Date: July 27, 2004 at 8:37:11 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Sean,

Just thought I would mention something that I have done before.  See, I used to move from here to there and docs would die or move etc.  So I started requesting a copy of my blood work.  That way I can track it and see if it is getting better or worse.  Also, see if they will give you a viral load test.  That is testing how may bug or virus per ml is in you system.  Just a tip I thought I would pass on.

As far as Julian I don’t see anything wrong with what he said.   He don’t like the system, I think he has company – lol.   Hey, what is this mc 18?  or something like that a post or two down?  I never heard of it.  Any way I can get it, what is it suppose to do.  Detail is not necessary just a sentence or two.

Well, tomorrow I see the bupe doc.  Hope it gives me energy and eases depression.  I feel so week.  There are 80 year old men who get around more than me.

Best to all,

– JIM

UUSEAN@aol.com wrote:

Hi Ann,

Maybe I’m wrong, but I took Julian’s post to be a WELCOME TO MINDVOX!

Sean

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete – You start. We finish.

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] IMPORTANT- any EKG suggestions?
Date: July 27, 2004 at 7:22:44 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Ann,

Maybe I’m wrong, but I took Julian’s post to be a WELCOME TO MINDVOX!

Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] All’s Well
Date: July 27, 2004 at 7:16:44 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi,

Glad to hear Randy’s doing well medically..and can go on to treatment!  I am in the process if checking if my liver enzymes are OK for ibogaine, as I also have hepC.
I am still planning my route to the blood test and the EKG.

Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] IMPORTANT- any EKG suggestions?
Date: July 27, 2004 at 7:13:16 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Julian,

Ramble on! You make some very good points.  I would quibble with one point, though.  I don’t wish a divorce from euphoria; just the life force killing slave making kind.:)

Sean

From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] IMPORTANT- any EKG suggestions?
Date: July 27, 2004 at 7:00:51 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

 

Hi Ann. I hope not to sound arrogant or cliche but I always viewed “junkieism” or “dope fiendism” as a state of mind. It is attitude more than behavior. The actual ingestion of drugs as well as other behavior seems more like a symptom of a bigger problem or situation. I swear to you I’ve met some people that were far more “fiendish” than I ever was but certainly not by society’s standards because they didn’t abuse drugs, they barely used them! Anybody deserves to be in mindvox if they wish to learn something about a particular subject. As with many other sites or conversation rooms,  you get to speak with and listen to a certain type of individual that I guarantee you will not find anywhere else. What we all talk about here just isn’t acceptable to most others. Here, virtually anything goes especially with anything that pertains to marriage and/or divorce from EUPHORIA. Sorry if I’m rambling or preaching but….hey what can I tell you?
Nice talking with you Ann,
Julian

Huh?  Did I say something wrong?  Sure didn’t mean to irritate
anybody – least of all you.

love
ann

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] All’s Well
Date: July 27, 2004 at 5:42:38 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/27/04 2:27:31 PM, think@francomm.com writes:

<< ps.  This is the hospital where Stanley Glick has his laboratory.  I’m
going to

pursue this and find out as much as I can. >>

Stanley Glick is a great guy.  You should visit.  That doesn’t mean that
picket lines demanding 18-mc won’t soon be marching.

Howard

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From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] IMPORTANT- any EKG suggestions?
Date: July 27, 2004 at 5:15:41 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Ann. I hope not to sound arrogant or cliche but I always viewed “junkieism” or “dope fiendism” as a state of mind. It is attitude more than behavior. The actual ingestion of drugs as well as other behavior seems more like a symptom of a bigger problem or situation. I swear to you I’ve met some people that were far more “fiendish” than I ever was but certainly not by society’s standards because they didn’t abuse drugs, they barely used them! Anybody deserves to be in mindvox if they wish to learn something about a particular subject. As with many other sites or conversation rooms,  you get to speak with and listen to a certain type of individual that I guarantee you will not find anywhere else. What we all talk about here just isn’t acceptable to most others. Here, virtually anything goes especially with anything that pertains to marriage and/or divorce from EUPHORIA. Sorry if I’m rambling or preaching but….hey what can I tell you?
Nice talking with you Ann,
Julian

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] Ibogaine gets the Reefer Madness treatment in UK…
Date: July 27, 2004 at 5:02:18 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello Howard. You know, I won’t even go into the Orwellian aspect of this vaccination concept, soon to be vaccination reality. It would be too easy to blow it apart by it’s “BIG BROTHER” seams!! What causes me to erupt is how simple the solution to the drug problem is!! It is right in front of everyone’s eyes and yet our culture, our society and great civilization refuses to even nod in it’s direction! LEGALIZATION!!!! The folly of litigating morality has been lost on the great minds of this era. Even with proof of it’s failure smacking us in the face with Prohibition in the twenties and The Drug War of the late twentieth century, we still play very dangerous games with ourselves. Vaccinating our children? What scares me the most is most of this country and much of the world not only sees this as an important and necessary step towards fighting the evils of ‘Euphoria’ but also as a miracle!!! It is ‘cultural cancer’

I have to stop myself because there are certain topics that press all my buttons and enable me to talk or write forever! This is not only one of them, it is by far the most severe of all!!! If I could only find an island somewhere and start my own society. Fuck me!! Have a great day all of you!
Julian

From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] All’s Well
Date: July 27, 2004 at 3:26:51 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks to everybody.  Your well-wishes are appreciated.

We travelled up to Albany Med to have the swollen feet checked out.
Randy was examined from stem to stern:  Xray of lungs, complete blood panel
including liver enzymes, EKG.

Albany Med is a huge teaching hospital that has all the latest technology and besides
which I worked there as a staff nurse a couple of years after I graduated from nursing
school.  It has a burn unit famous throughout the US.  They are also well known for
doing heart transplants.  There are other specialities that I can’t remember!!   If he hadn’t
been a recovered Hep C patient none of the sympstoms would have caused any concern.
As it is all his systems are perfect.

Feet and ankles are back to normal today.  It has been extremely hot recently and
the two of us spent a lot of time finishing up the gardening.  One day the sun beat down
on us unmercifully and we worked all day with sweat running.  Sure was enough
to set off a case of swollen feet 🙂

Best regards

ann
think@francomm.com

ps.  This is the hospital where Stanley Glick has his laboratory.  I’m going to
pursue this and find out as much as I can.
From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] pain patients on ibogaine
Date: July 27, 2004 at 2:11:21 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I know someone who is about to do some sitting for someone else I know,
and was wondering if there was something posted somewhere, some sort of
guidelines/advice for sitters.

Nick’s site has some protocols that would be good for the sitter to read:

Ibogaine Treatment

And here are some words from an experienced Ibonaut and Sitter: Geerte

excerpted from : http://www.ibogaine.co.uk/geerte.htm

The actual treatment takes place in three stages, through which the subject is guided by a team of Ibogaine-experienced ex-addicts, a medical doctor, a psychiatrist and a psycho-therapist and several other medical personnel.

Early in the morning, ten hours after one’s last use of food and drugs, the subject takes the Ibogaine orally in capsule form. Sometimes the Ibogaine is mixed with a digestive aid. This takes place in the morning, when the subject normally would have used their wake-up dose of drugs. An hour after administration the subject usually notices the fact that their familiar morning withdrawal symptoms have disappeared and will express a desire to lay down and get comfortable. A quiet, darkened room, especially prepared in a personalized, though non-distracting, manner is made available for this purpose. The room is darkened because light bothers most subjects on Ibogaine. The room is quiet because sound is usually experienced in an amplified and oscillating way. The subject generally experiences ataxia during movement, which is loss of muscular coordination similar to drunkenness. Since the ataxia is sometimes accompanied by vomiting, he or she is asked to lay still with the least amount of motion as possible. When closing the eyes, approximately 75% of subjects experience dream-like visions. I will get back to this visionary stage later in my talk. However, when subjects opens his/her eyes and are talked to, there seem to be no real visual or auditory distortions and some level of communication is possible but usually not preferred by the subject. Many subjects perspire heavily and are advised to wear comfortable shirts/pants that can be easily replaced. The first stage takes place for about four to eight hours, during which he or she is regularly checked by the treatment team and where members of this team are constantly available on request. During the first stage subjects generally do not complain about any withdrawal symptoms.

In the second stage, that can last approximately 30 to 40 hours, several things can happen. Some subjects still experience a dream-like period, although it is supposedly less intense. There is time to evaluate the visionary experiences, which can bring about profound insight into life and death and the reasons behind addictive behavior. Some subjects request something to drink and/or very light food like fruit. The subject usually stays awake most of the time. During this phase some subjects complain about exhaustion, which some of them interpret to be withdrawal symptoms. It is at this stage that the presence of Ibogaine-experienced ex-addicts is crucial. The previously established trust relationship between the subject and this guide, gives the guide the opportunity to assure the subject that this is a common stage and that all that is needed is some sleep. They can relate on the basis of shared experiences, which has proven to be very effective and very important in order to prevent the subject from using any drugs that he or she might have saved. In many of these cases the subject is calmed down and sleep medication can be requested and is often advised by the team.

During the third stage most subjects fall asleep for a couple of hours, with or without the help of some sleep medication, after which they generally awake feeling rested, very hungry and in need to wash up. In the course of this day most people are able to resume normal activities. Many subjects need to spend more time in or around the treatment facility to process what has happened to them and to adjust. Some people request to talk about their experience, others prefer privacy. Some subjects experience up to about 15% of withdrawal symptoms after treatment, like some minor chills or a little yawning. An increased amount of energy and appetite and a decreased sleep requirement then continues over a three to four months period, diminishing slowly. Subjects usually stay free of cravings for several months.

Once the subject is informed of these practical aspects of a treatment with Ibogaine, I attempt to prepare him or her for the possibility of dream-like visions during the first and part of the second stage, even though approximately 25% of all subjects report not experiencing any visions. The visual and auditory experiences that possibly occur during Ibogaine treatment have demonstrated the ability to release repressed memories. The relevance of these visions in relation to the addiction interruption process is obvious when they seem to help the individual to develop an understanding of the underlying reasons for their addictive behavior. I usually ask the subjects what their expectations are around these possible Ibogaine visions. Since many addicts use drugs for their consciousness-suppressing qualities, some of them express fear of Ibogaine’s mind-altering effects. It is then explained to them that people have reported not experiencing Ibogaine as a euphoriant and that the effects of the visions on the mind do not seem to include actual processing on an emotional level. That is to say, there is no element of release of emotions like laughing or crying as is seen in many hallucinogenics. Besides, the repressed memories that are being released are usually positive, since most addicts have been dwelling on the ones that are negative.

It has proved important to explain the similarities between an addiction interruption session and the use of Ibogaine in the African tribal tradition. As Howard Lotsof explained, some West-African tribes have used Ibogaine for centuries as a form of initiation that occurs once in a lifetime when a young person is to make their transformation into adulthood by reviewing their past and to “restore communication with the ancestors.” People taking it for addiction-interruption purposes describe the visionary and auditory elements of the Ibogaine experience as a state of “dreaming wide awake.” Visions can occur in a repetitive mode. They often report visualizing a rapid run-through of their lives and/or the lives of family members, even of those who have already past away. They have noted the ability of going both backward and forward in time and being able to come to an understanding of their spiritual roots. With spiritual I do not mean religious, but I mean a hightened level of awareness. I like to call the experience a “journey into ones DNA.”

The possible amount and intensity of released material can be so overwhelming, that people have said that they simply could not remember everything they had seen, or that it took months to remember certain visions. Therefore, the processing of released material and the ability to verbalize these matters and learn to interpret their often symbolic content can take extended amounts of time and continue over years. Subjects have reported experiencing a mental or spiritual transformation due to the Ibogaine which they compare to ten years of therapy in 2 days, or taking a “thruth-serum.” Whatever people report on their experiences, they have been observed returning from their Ibogaine experiences with a greater understanding of previously made choices. However, this does not mean that the Ibogaine experience offers them the skills to interpret and approach this material in a constructive manner that can lead to positive and productive solutions and changes in the life after treatment. We have learned from experience that for many people Ibogaine treatment on itself is not enough to maintain a substance abuse-free life. Most subjects require some type of after-care in which these and other matters are addressed. Psychotherapist Barbara Judd, who has been working with substance abusers for over 15 years and who has treated people before, during and after Ibogaine treatments for over 6 years has noticed that a person treated with Ibogaine is more ready and willing to undergo therapy sessions compared to the average recovering drug abuser. Many addicts who have used Ibogaine have seem to be able to access sensitive material that lays at the core of their addictive behavior without the usual feelings of trauma and fear and the need to anesthetize these feelings with drugs as a way of defense. Their newly acquired knowledge and attitude can save the therapist a lot of time in terms of confronting the individual with possibly painful issues. In case there are traumatic issues, they need to be worked through in order to break through the cycles of self-destructive behavior and find new, positive ways to approach life and it’s problems. Subjects are stimulated to seek out or create support networks, which could range from attending Narcotics Anonymous meetings to organizing Ibogaine focus groups of their own.

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] pain patients on ibogaine
Date: July 27, 2004 at 12:22:34 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/27/04 8:58:05 AM, think@francomm.com writes:

I surely do understand your feelings of frustration (or at least I think
I do).
It is depressing to know of an effective method of treating a big problem
in this country and not be in a position of getting any of the powers that
be to
listen to you.  Maybe some do tho.  Please don’t give up!!!!!

The powers that be listened.  The University of Miami/Mash/Sanchez-Ramos did
not finish the FDA approved studies and Mash went to St. Kitts

Do you have any dialogue with Stanley Glick?  I’m not sure I know the
reasons for not going ahead with clinical trials of his Molecule fragment
(MC18?)  Is it lack of financial backing alone that holds him back or some
other reason?

Yes and to the best of my understanding lack of finance is stopping the work.
I cannot imagine if I were Stan Glick that I would not have financing to
proceed.  I really can’t understand what is going on.

Howard

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] pain patients on ibogaine
Date: July 27, 2004 at 12:17:17 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/27/04 5:49:10 AM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

I know someone who is about to do some sitting for someone else I know,
and was wondering if there was something posted somewhere, some sort of
guidelines/advice for sitters. She would like to better know what she’s
in for as a sitter, what her responsibilities are and might be, and what she
should be looking out for as a sitter. Barring something posted already,
perhaps someone can give some suggestions here that I can pass on to my
friend.

Preston,

If you are a responsible sitter, it is a lot of work.  Your job is to observe
and care for the patient.  That is a 24/7 job and if it is only one person
that means they are there full time.  Taking pulse and blood pressure
periodically and on any occasion the patient does not appear well is in order.  Knowing
what you are doing helps.  That is you have some prior experience in observing
ibogaine treated patients.  Help patients get to the bathroom or move if they
have to during the ataxic period.  If an emergency of any kind should arise,
don’t hesitate to call EMS.

For the patient, drink lots of water for two days prior to ibogaine therapy.
You want to be well hydrated.  Though not drinking for four hours prior to
administration is also a good idea in my opinion except for the liquid which is
used to swallow the capsules of ibo if that is the form taken.

Most patients will not want to eat or drink for a good long time after taking
ibogaine.  I think the sitter should try to get the subject to drink
water/juice/liquids sixteen to twenty hours after administration.  This is just a
hydration issue and I am sure there are a lot of opinions on this which I would be
very glad to hear.

Howard

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From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] IMPORTANT- any EKG suggestions?
Date: July 27, 2004 at 10:24:35 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi;

Sometimes I feel like an intruder here since to the best of my
knowledge I am not an addict.  However, I am closely related to
people (in my family) who have such problems and DAMN IT
I SURE DO CARE ABOUT Y’all!!

Randy got his EKG as part of an office visit to his primary care
doc.  The doc has a machine in his office as part of his practice
and there was no charge other than for the regular office visit.

Incidentally, this doc has been told about Ibogaine treatments and he
is all for it.  Randy’s liver specialist feels the same way and provided
us with copies of Randy’s latest blood work.  So, there are some
docs who are very receptive to the whole idea of treating with
Ibogaine.  I am giving Internet info (printouts) to all these fine
docs.  They are very interested in it.

regards

ann
think@francomm.com

Hi all,
I’ve been an idiot it appears, putting off getting my EKG thinking it
would be a quick and easy thing.
So, I just called my doctor’s office to make an appointment for my
EKG,
so I can actually do ibogaine, and have to bring in $142 just to see the
doctor, who will then decide whether or not to order the EKG for me.
Unfortunately, my own regular doctor is out of town on leave so I’ll be
seeing an intern.
My questions are these:

How much does an EKG usually cost?
Is it possible the doctor will tell me no?
Why exactly is the EKG necessary?
What is it looking for- in other words, what can it tell me/provider
that will keep me from actually doing ibogaine? Because I’m going to be
really upset if this stupid thing shows some reason why I can’t take, (or
why someone won’t give me) ibogaine.
This is becoming yet another very expensive endeavor, granted a lot
less
than continued overuse of pain killers but still, it’s a pretty big outlay
for something that may very well turn out to kill my chances to take
ibogaine. So I’m now worrying about something else, besides the simple
“taking ibogaine” thing itself.
So, any suggestions as to any way of doing this cheaper, so that I
still
get my results back this week would be much appreciated.
Would it be easier to just go into the emergency room? Would I get
results back faster? Would it be cheaper?
Another question- what should I tell my doctor as to WHY I need an EKG
done- which might just be my most important question here.
Any replies would before 2PM today would be VERY appreciated, as
that’s
when I go to see my doc to see about getting a Wednesday appointment for
the
EKG, which is apparently the only day they do these through my doctor’s
office.
Thanks in adnance for any suggestions or advice.
Peace,
Preston

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From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] pain patients on ibogaine
Date: July 27, 2004 at 9:57:14 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I surely do understand your feelings of frustration (or at least I think I
do).
It is depressing to know of an effective method of treating a big problem in
this
country and not be in a position of getting any of the powers that be to
listen to you.  Maybe some do tho.  Please don’t give up!!!!!

Do you have any dialogue with Stanley Glick?  I’m not sure I know the
reasons for not going ahead with clinical trials of his Molecule fragment
(MC18?)  Is it lack of financial backing alone that holds him back or some
other reason?

respectfully

Ann B. Mullikin
think@francomm.com

THIS WAS ORIGINALLY POSTED TO THE METHADONE WATCHDOG BULLETIN BOARD.

Well the first thing is don’t run out and do anything.  There is no reason
to.  I think that with ibogaine, withdrawal gets as unawful as it can get.
And
the real good part is it gets better for most people after that.  That,
being
about 2 to 5 days.  As a pain patient you have two very different options,
maybe more.  The earliest work by Jurg Schneider a Ciba Pharmacologist who
went
on to become the President of Dupont’s Biochemical’s Division was the
finding
that ibogaine potentiated morphine analgesia and that of other narcotics
as
well.  What he did not know was that this potentiation in human subjects
could
easily last three to six months from a brief ibogaine regimen. And in my
opinion
that does not begin to take in account the psychotherapeutic aspects and
benefits of the experience.

That being said, a pain patient can 1) use ibogaine to reduce pain
medication, 2) be treated with ibogaine to come off of pain medication or
3)  just to
gain insight and feel better about being a pain patient.  And if you have
another Ibogaine treatment you can change you mind about what you want to
do.  In
fact you don’t even have to have the Ibogaine treatment to do that. The
dose
regimens for each would be somewhat different but, no big surprises.

And, with ibogaine, decisions are all up to you.  Ibogaine providers will
generally work with you. If they don’t you can go to another provider or
contact
me and I will speak to them on your behalf.  I have just initiated an
Ibogaine
Grievance Form that will allow Ibogaine treated patients the same rights
as
methadone, cancer and other patients to file grievances.  see
http://wwwdoraweiner.org/incident.html and it can be initially filed right
from the web page.
I think ibogaine providers will pay Ibogaine patients a lot more attention
at
this time than most methadone providers pay methadone patients as they
really
want satisfied patients.

So as a pain patient you can take ibogaine and then make a decision as to
what you want to do as a pain patient – that is if you are still a pain
patient –
no pressure whatsoever.

I just must apologize for not being able to provide ibogaine as an FDA
approved medication. In that sense I failed to do what I set out to do, to
make
Ibogaine available to anyone who wants or needs it.  Had I succeeded any
of you
who wished to be treated could be treated at just about any hospital or
Swiss
spa but, at least ibogaine is out there and so are all of you.  So as that
sergeant from that police show you to say, “You all be careful out there.”
If you
are treated with Ibogaine and do decide to continue pain medication DO NOT
take the same dose you did before Ibogaine therapy.  I would suggest 1/10
to 1/4
or your original dose for testing and them work form there.  If methadone
is
concerned do not dose escalate up in shorter time periods than four hours
between doses.

Ibogaine for pain management is a new and exciting field of research. I
really wish I was running an ibogaine/pain management clinical trial. That
would
really be interesting.

Howard

Howard S. Lotsof
President
Dora Weiner Foundation
POB 10032
Staten Island, NY 10301-0032
USA
dir tel, 1 718 442-2754
dir fax, 1 718 442-1957
email, dwf123@earthlink.net
http://www.doraweiner.org

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] pain patients on ibogaine
Date: July 27, 2004 at 6:48:27 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks very much for posting this one Howard,
Seems very timely one might say.
I’ve another question/favor to ask.
I know someone who is about to do some sitting for someone else I know,
and was wondering if there was something posted somewhere, some sort of
guidelines/advice for sitters. She would like to better know what she’s in
for as a sitter, what her responsibilities are and might be, and what she
should be looking out for as a sitter. Barring something posted already,
perhaps someone can give some suggestions here that I can pass on to my
friend.
Thanks kindly in advance.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 2:07 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] pain patients on ibogaine

THIS WAS ORIGINALLY POSTED TO THE METHADONE WATCHDOG BULLETIN BOARD.

Well the first thing is don’t run out and do anything.  There is no reason
to.  I think that with ibogaine, withdrawal gets as unawful as it can get.
And
the real good part is it gets better for most people after that.  That,
being
about 2 to 5 days.  As a pain patient you have two very different options,
maybe more.  The earliest work by Jurg Schneider a Ciba Pharmacologist who
went
on to become the President of Dupont’s Biochemical’s Division was the
finding
that ibogaine potentiated morphine analgesia and that of other narcotics
as
well.  What he did not know was that this potentiation in human subjects
could
easily last three to six months from a brief ibogaine regimen. And in my
opinion
that does not begin to take in account the psychotherapeutic aspects and
benefits of the experience.

That being said, a pain patient can 1) use ibogaine to reduce pain
medication, 2) be treated with ibogaine to come off of pain medication or
3)  just to
gain insight and feel better about being a pain patient.  And if you have
another Ibogaine treatment you can change you mind about what you want to
do.  In
fact you don’t even have to have the Ibogaine treatment to do that. The
dose
regimens for each would be somewhat different but, no big surprises.

And, with ibogaine, decisions are all up to you.  Ibogaine providers will
generally work with you. If they don’t you can go to another provider or
contact
me and I will speak to them on your behalf.  I have just initiated an
Ibogaine
Grievance Form that will allow Ibogaine treated patients the same rights
as
methadone, cancer and other patients to file grievances.  see
http://wwwdoraweiner.org/incident.html and it can be initially filed right
from the web page.
I think ibogaine providers will pay Ibogaine patients a lot more attention
at
this time than most methadone providers pay methadone patients as they
really
want satisfied patients.

So as a pain patient you can take ibogaine and then make a decision as to
what you want to do as a pain patient – that is if you are still a pain
patient –
no pressure whatsoever.

I just must apologize for not being able to provide ibogaine as an FDA
approved medication. In that sense I failed to do what I set out to do, to
make
Ibogaine available to anyone who wants or needs it.  Had I succeeded any
of you
who wished to be treated could be treated at just about any hospital or
Swiss
spa but, at least ibogaine is out there and so are all of you.  So as that
sergeant from that police show you to say, “You all be careful out there.”
If you
are treated with Ibogaine and do decide to continue pain medication DO NOT
take the same dose you did before Ibogaine therapy.  I would suggest 1/10
to 1/4
or your original dose for testing and them work form there.  If methadone
is
concerned do not dose escalate up in shorter time periods than four hours
between doses.

Ibogaine for pain management is a new and exciting field of research. I
really wish I was running an ibogaine/pain management clinical trial. That
would
really be interesting.

Howard

Howard S. Lotsof
President
Dora Weiner Foundation
POB 10032
Staten Island, NY 10301-0032
USA
dir tel, 1 718 442-2754
dir fax, 1 718 442-1957
email, dwf123@earthlink.net
http://www.doraweiner.org

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From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: RE: [ibogaine] AnyoneFormer’done gone2Bupe
Date: July 27, 2004 at 6:22:06 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I don’t know if this is the link that you’re looking for but this site is an
Opiate Detox Forum and if you go to the Bup/Sub part you’ll find loads of
info there on people’s experiences.  (Personally I think they make too much
of a big deal about Sub WDs-don’t let them scare you!)  Also the FAQ/INFO
part has some info on Sub too.  Hope this helps!

http://64.226.201.78/Forum/default.asp

lol Hannah
—– Original Message —–
From: “Terrell Tye” <trtye@gci.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 5:17 PM
Subject: Re: RE: [ibogaine] AnyoneFormer’done gone2Bupe

Brad, So you’re the originator of that thread. I thought it was Jim.
Anyway, I can’t believe how good I feel right now. As I mentioned, on Fri.
night I had quite a bit to drink and didn’t actually go to bed til around
3:30am. So you’d think I’d be really tired and get to sleep early on Sat.
night (remember I’m 51 and hangovers cost dearly the older you get). Well, I
got my jammies on and got in the bed with my laptop at around 10:30 pm Sat.
nite. I even took 5mg valium, cause I didn’t feel sleepy. I was wide awake
until 7:00 am and that’s after taking another 10mgs valium. I slept till
11:30 and got up and felt great. I’m usually a bear/bitch/jerk unless I get
at least 7 hours of sleep and I felt none of that. I just felt good,
energized. Same this morning, woke up at about 5:45am (again I normally
sleep til 9:00 at least). I tried to get back to sleep by taking 10 mg
valium but the bupe says “hey, get up…you don’t need the sleep”.  I was
going to use this as a detox for m

ethadone over a month’s taper but I’m beginning to rethink that. My
biggest problem when not doing opiates is the depression and utter lack of
energy. If I have to go back to that, I’d rather stay on a maitenance dose.
This extra energy may just be an initial reaction but it certainly is a
pleasant one. Good luck to you on tapering off the done and switching over.
By the way, there were a couple of posts that referred to a great site
about bupe and it’s physiological effects (adverse or otherwise) but I
missed the post with the URL. Can anyone provide that for me again? Thanks
so much, trtye

From  Brad Fisher <brad.fisher@guaranty.com>
Sent  Monday, July 26, 2004 7:32 am
To  trtye@gci.net
Cc
Bcc
Subject  RE: [ibogaine] AnyoneFormer’done gone2Bupe

————————————————————————–
——

Thank you for printing the weeks schedule coming off… I am on an
unusually high dose of Methadone (I am a rapid metabolizer) and have been
for 5 years. My (baby) just graduated from Hi School and now I am thinking
of coming off. I wanted and needed the stability Methadone provided for her
last few years at home and school. Now I believe is a better time for the
turmoil of kicking…. I’ve read different acct.’s/reports you have the
experiance of actually doing it, most others are suggestions.
bf

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] Ibogaine gets the Reefer Madness treatment in UK newspaper
Date: July 27, 2004 at 2:20:35 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

OK you UK guys/gals.  How about putting the sense of these two articles
together and demanding ibogaine therapy.  Ask how many dead they expect from their
vaccination program? And considering the way the drug using mind works, if you
can’t get your kicks from cocaine, heroin, alcohol, nicotine, why just wait
for someone to invent a new and more dangerous drug.  Let them vaccinate their
own children and wait ten years to evaluate the effects.

Howard

Newshawk: http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/issues/pharmacotherapy.html
Pubdate: Sun, 25 Jul 2004
Source: Independent  (UK)
Copyright: 2004 Independent Newspapers Ltd.
Contact: letters@independent.co.uk
Website: http://www.independent.co.uk/
Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/209
Authors: Sophie Goodchild and Steve Bloomfield

CHILDREN TO GET JABS AGAINST DRUG ADDICTION

Ministers Consider Vaccination Scheme. Heroin, Cocaine and Nicotine Targeted

A radical scheme to vaccinate children against future drug addiction is
being considered by ministers, The Independent on Sunday can reveal.

Under the plans, doctors would immunise children at risk of becoming
smokers or drug users with an injection. The scheme could operate in a
similar way to the current nationwide measles, mumps and rubella
vaccination programme.

Childhood immunisation would provide adults with protection from the
euphoria that is experienced by users, making drugs such as heroin and
cocaine pointless to take. Such vaccinations are being developed by
pharmaceutical companies and are due to hit the market within two years.

The Department of Trade and Industry has set up a special project to
investigate ways of using new scientific breakthroughs to combat drug and
nicotine addiction.

A national anti-drug immunisation scheme is one of the proposals being put
forward by the Brain Science, Addiction and Drugs project, an expert
committee of scientists appointed by the Government earlier this year.

Professor David Nutt, a leading government drugs adviser who sits on the
committee, told the IoS that anti-drug vaccines for children are likely to
be among the panel’s recommendations when it reports next March.

Professor Nutt, head of psychopharmacology at the University of Bristol and
a senior member of the Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs, said:
“People could be vaccinated against drugs at birth as you are against
measles. You could say cocaine is more dangerous than measles, for example.
It is important that there is a debate on this issue. This is a huge topic
– addiction and smoking are major causes of premature death.”

According to the Government’s own figures, the cost of drug addiction –
through related crime and health problems – to the economy is UKP12bn a
year. There is a strong incentive for the Government to find new ways to
halt spiralling addiction. Last week, the IoS revealed that cocaine use had
trebled in Britain with increasing numbers of users switching to highly
addictive crack cocaine.

Scientists are already conducting trials for drugs that can be used by
doctors to vaccinate against cocaine, heroin and nicotine addiction.

Xenova, the British biotechnology firm, has carried out trials on an
anti-cocaine vaccine which showed that 58 per cent of patients remained
cocaine-free after three months.

Meanwhile, experts at the Scripps Research Institute in San Diego,
California, have developed a super-virus, harmless to humans, which
produces proteins that can block or reduce the effects of cocaine.

The team at Scripps tested the virus on rats by injecting it into their
noses twice a day for three days.

On the fourth day, the rats were given a shot of cocaine. The researchers
found that cocaine had more effect on the rats not injected with the virus
than those that were. Scientists hope that the virus will help stop the
cravings experienced by cocaine users for the drug by blocking the pleasure
they normally associate with cocaine. This anti-drug medication is expected
to be available to users within the next two years in the form of a nasal
spray.

Proposals to introduce a national anti-drug vaccination programme have been
given a cautious welcome by MPs and experts.

Ian Gibson, head of the Commons Science and Technology Committee, said the
Government would have to carry out public consultation. “There is no reason
to think this would not be a starter or beneficial,” said Dr Gibson, Labour
MP for Norwich North. “But … proper consultation with the public needs to
happen well in advance.”

David Hinchliffe, chairman of the Commons Health Committee and Labour MP
for Wakefield, said: “This could have a huge impact on society in terms of
preventing damage to others and dealing with addicts. [But] the ethical
perspective does need to be looked at closely.”

The National Treatment Agency, which manages drug-addiction programmes,
welcomed any new ways of treating addiction but said there was no “magic
bullet”.
In a message dated 7/26/04 4:48:40 PM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

—– Original Message —–

From: “Robert Merkin” <bobmerk@earthlink.net>

To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>

Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 2:03 PM

Subject: [drugwar] Ibogaine gets the Reefer Madness treatment in UK

newspaper

Don’t think i’m subscribed to ibogaine List, so can someone please forward

this to ibogaine@mindvox.com ?

It seems the Sunday Mercury, with this one story, has just discovered
the

existence of ibogaine, and has determined it is Bad & Dangerous.

Elmer

URL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v04.n1062.a02.html

Newshawk: Herb

Pubdate: Sun, 18 Jul 2004

Source: Sunday Mercury (UK)

Copyright: 2004 Sunday Mercury

Contact: SundayMercury@mrn.co.uk

Website:

http://icbirmingham.icnetwork.co.uk/2050ourpapers/0300sundaymercury/

Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/3167

Author: Caroline Wheeler

DEADLY ‘CURE’ FOR JUNKIES

A ‘miracle drug’ which claims to cure heroin addicts in just ONE day
has

already been linked to four deaths.

Although it can be obtained officially only on prescription, the Sunday

Mercury was able to buy some for UKP 30 on the internet.

Manufacturers say Ibogaine works by instantly relieving withdrawal

symptoms

and suppressing cravings for heroin and cocaine.

The toxic substance is so powerful that it can only be prescribed by

doctors – but our reporter was able to buy a derivative of it over the

internet with no questions asked.

In the past, Ibogaine treatment has only been available privately at
UKP

500 a time.

But the Sunday Mercury has discovered that Midland addicts are buying
it

illegally from an online herbalist.

Now Ibogaine therapists, who offer expensive treatment programmes, are

warning the DIY detox approach could kill.

“It is not advisable for drug addicts to attempt an Ibogaine treatment

programme on their own,” one therapist said.

“Everyone reacts differently to Ibogaine and it could be dangerous if
you

don’t know what you are doing.  It has been known for people to die after

taking Ibogaine.”

It is believed four people have died from taking the drug, including
one

in

Britain.

Ibogaine is an unlicensed drug in the UK, and cannot be sold without
a

prescription.  But despite this restriction, one UK distributor continues

to sell a derivative of the drug online.

Last week, the Sunday Mercury bought 10 grammes of Iboga root bark

capsules

for UKP 28.98.

In an e-mail exchange the webmaster told our reporter: “I am the only

salesman of Iboga in England and supply it to people all over the country,

including in the Midlands.

“Most of my customers have been mothers who are desperate to get their

kids

off drugs.  One of them told me she has a son who was hooked on heroin
and

crack.  Iboga got him off the stuff.”

We contacted the seller later to tell him what he was doing was illegal.

“I was unaware that the Department of Health said selling Ibogaine is

illegal,” he claimed.  “Thanks for the tip.  However, I only sell Ibogaine

root bark so it should be OK.”

Last night, a spokesman for the Department of Health advised our reporter

to alert the Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency.

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] pain patients on ibogaine
Date: July 27, 2004 at 2:07:55 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

THIS WAS ORIGINALLY POSTED TO THE METHADONE WATCHDOG BULLETIN BOARD.

Well the first thing is don’t run out and do anything.  There is no reason
to.  I think that with ibogaine, withdrawal gets as unawful as it can get.  And
the real good part is it gets better for most people after that.  That, being
about 2 to 5 days.  As a pain patient you have two very different options,
maybe more.  The earliest work by Jurg Schneider a Ciba Pharmacologist who went
on to become the President of Dupont’s Biochemical’s Division was the finding
that ibogaine potentiated morphine analgesia and that of other narcotics as
well.  What he did not know was that this potentiation in human subjects could
easily last three to six months from a brief ibogaine regimen. And in my opinion
that does not begin to take in account the psychotherapeutic aspects and
benefits of the experience.

That being said, a pain patient can 1) use ibogaine to reduce pain
medication, 2) be treated with ibogaine to come off of pain medication or 3)  just to
gain insight and feel better about being a pain patient.  And if you have
another Ibogaine treatment you can change you mind about what you want to do.  In
fact you don’t even have to have the Ibogaine treatment to do that. The dose
regimens for each would be somewhat different but, no big surprises.

And, with ibogaine, decisions are all up to you.  Ibogaine providers will
generally work with you. If they don’t you can go to another provider or contact
me and I will speak to them on your behalf.  I have just initiated an Ibogaine
Grievance Form that will allow Ibogaine treated patients the same rights as
methadone, cancer and other patients to file grievances.  see
http://wwwdoraweiner.org/incident.html and it can be initially filed right from the web page.
I think ibogaine providers will pay Ibogaine patients a lot more attention at
this time than most methadone providers pay methadone patients as they really
want satisfied patients.

So as a pain patient you can take ibogaine and then make a decision as to
what you want to do as a pain patient – that is if you are still a pain patient –
no pressure whatsoever.

I just must apologize for not being able to provide ibogaine as an FDA
approved medication. In that sense I failed to do what I set out to do, to make
Ibogaine available to anyone who wants or needs it.  Had I succeeded any of you
who wished to be treated could be treated at just about any hospital or Swiss
spa but, at least ibogaine is out there and so are all of you.  So as that
sergeant from that police show you to say, “You all be careful out there.”  If you
are treated with Ibogaine and do decide to continue pain medication DO NOT
take the same dose you did before Ibogaine therapy.  I would suggest 1/10 to 1/4
or your original dose for testing and them work form there.  If methadone is
concerned do not dose escalate up in shorter time periods than four hours
between doses.

Ibogaine for pain management is a new and exciting field of research. I
really wish I was running an ibogaine/pain management clinical trial. That would
really be interesting.

Howard

Howard S. Lotsof
President
Dora Weiner Foundation
POB 10032
Staten Island, NY 10301-0032
USA
dir tel, 1 718 442-2754
dir fax, 1 718 442-1957
email, dwf123@earthlink.net
http://www.doraweiner.org

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From: ElixerD9@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] me.
Date: July 26, 2004 at 11:40:01 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Http://www.911inplainsight.com

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] AnyoneFormer’done gone2Bupe
Date: July 26, 2004 at 10:32:13 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Randy, don’t be sorry about a long message. I found it rea;;y informative. I never believe anyone from the ‘establishment’ when it comes to pharmaceuticals. I learn from books and people like yourself! Thanks.
Julian

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] IMPORTANT- any EKG suggestions?
Date: July 26, 2004 at 9:40:57 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Preston,

I am going to need an EKG as well, so I appreciate the info and the discussion.  I have insurance, so I guess that should make it easier, but these days you never know.

Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Mc…..More well wishes!
Date: July 26, 2004 at 9:30:19 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I second that emotion really glad for you man..best of luck and have a good trip:)

Sean

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] IMPORTANT- any EKG suggestions?
Date: July 26, 2004 at 9:03:35 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

they had the treadmill but I just had to sit and let the machine listen and
read and draw pretty graphs.
yes, they gave me the printout too.
It went incredibly easy, I think in part because I paid cash, and didn’t
have to go through some stupid managed care system.
The one advantage of having preexisting condition mand n o health
insurance is I don’t have to deal with some anonymous dweedoid in some
office somewhere telling me or my doc or my pharmacist that I don’t
need/can’t have this/that/or the other.
Peace,
preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 8:13 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] IMPORTANT- any EKG suggestions?

Hi Preston,

Did they give you paper work to go along with that EKG?  My doc always gives
me my paper work for blood  ( I just ask nicely) but I did not want to ask
for the EKG.

How you were able to find one for $ 50 is beyond me.  Did they have you walk
on the treadmil like I did?

Now you need money to get the Igbo treatment, put the $ 50 EKG on E-Bay and
you will make be rich.  In Michigan it cost $50 to use the rest room in a
hospital.

Glad to hear from ya,

– JIM

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Thanks Jon.
Just to let you all know, I had exactly ZERO problem getting the EKG
done today, once I finally got the number of a doctor’s office on 22nd.
Street, a cardiologist’s office.
Howard gave me a good idea too, but turns out I didn’t need to go that
route, but thanks anyway for the call Howard.
Anyway, it appears that despite my fears and worries I have a perfectly
healthy heart, so that’s one hurdle over and one step closer.
I’m getting nervouser and nervouser, but much more exciteder and
exciteder too. I’ve begun to set aside 15 to 20 minutes an evening for
silent contemplation, taking time to ask questions of whatever powers that
be, to show me where I should be, how I should go about getting there, what
can/should I be doing to improve myself and my immediate surroundings day by
day, and other related but simple questions like! this. Seems almost like I
know the answers too, or should anyway, but am hoping that perhaps the
iboga-spirits (or whatever it is) can and will help me figure out not only
the answers but why I have so far all my freakin’ life, so much trouble
taking the answers and running with them.
Ibogaine/Ibeginagain.
I like that one DH.
;-))
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Jon Ludlam”
To:
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 2:34 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] IMPORTANT- any EKG suggestions?

Message text written by INTERNET:ibogaine@mindvox.com
Wish me luck folks.
Peace and love,
Preston<

GOOD LUCK PRESTON!!!!!!!!!

Jon Ludlam

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Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – 50x more storage than other providers!

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] IMPORTANT- any EKG suggestions?
Date: July 26, 2004 at 8:13:39 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Preston,

Did they give you paper work to go along with that EKG?  My doc always gives me my paper work for blood  ( I just ask nicely) but I did not want to ask for the EKG.

How you were able to find one for $ 50 is beyond me.  Did they have you walk on the treadmil like I did?

Now you need money to get the Igbo treatment, put the $ 50 EKG on E-Bay and you will make be rich.  In Michigan it cost $50 to use the rest room in a hospital.

Glad to hear from ya,

– JIM

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Thanks Jon.
Just to let you all know, I had exactly ZERO problem getting the EKG
done today, once I finally got the number of a doctor’s office on 22nd.
Street, a cardiologist’s office.
Howard gave me a good idea too, but turns out I didn’t need to go that
route, but thanks anyway for the call Howard.
Anyway, it appears that despite my fears and worries I have a perfectly
healthy heart, so that’s one hurdle over and one step closer.
I’m getting nervouser and nervouser, but much more exciteder and
exciteder too. I’ve begun to set aside 15 to 20 minutes an evening for
silent contemplation, taking time to ask questions of whatever powers that
be, to show me where I should be, how I should go about getting there, what
can/should I be doing to improve myself and my immediate surroundings day by
day, and other related but simple questions like this. Seems almost like I
know the answers too, or should anyway, but am hoping that perhaps the
iboga-spirits (or whatever it is) can and will help me figure out not only
the answers but why I have so far all my freakin’ life, so much trouble
taking the answers and running with them.
Ibogaine/Ibeginagain.
I like that one DH.
;-))
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Jon Ludlam”
To:
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 2:34 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] IMPORTANT- any EKG suggestions?

Message text written by INTERNET:ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Wish me luck folks.
Peace and love,
Preston<

GOOD LUCK PRESTON!!!!!!!!!

Jon Ludlam

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Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – 50x more storage than other providers!

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] Ibogaine gets the Reefer Madness treatment in UK newspaper
Date: July 26, 2004 at 5:48:06 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hmmm,
Here’s comes that slightly trepidatious feeling again.
But hey, no risk, no gain, right?
Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Robert Merkin” <bobmerk@earthlink.net>
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 2:03 PM
Subject: [drugwar] Ibogaine gets the Reefer Madness treatment in UK
newspaper

Don’t think i’m subscribed to ibogaine List, so can someone please forward
this to ibogaine@mindvox.com ?

It seems the Sunday Mercury, with this one story, has just discovered the
existence of ibogaine, and has determined it is Bad & Dangerous.

Elmer

URL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v04.n1062.a02.html
Newshawk: Herb
Pubdate: Sun, 18 Jul 2004
Source: Sunday Mercury (UK)
Copyright: 2004 Sunday Mercury
Contact: SundayMercury@mrn.co.uk
Website:
http://icbirmingham.icnetwork.co.uk/2050ourpapers/0300sundaymercury/
Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/3167
Author: Caroline Wheeler

DEADLY ‘CURE’ FOR JUNKIES

A ‘miracle drug’ which claims to cure heroin addicts in just ONE day has
already been linked to four deaths.

Although it can be obtained officially only on prescription, the Sunday
Mercury was able to buy some for UKP 30 on the internet.

Manufacturers say Ibogaine works by instantly relieving withdrawal
symptoms
and suppressing cravings for heroin and cocaine.

The toxic substance is so powerful that it can only be prescribed by
doctors – but our reporter was able to buy a derivative of it over the
internet with no questions asked.

In the past, Ibogaine treatment has only been available privately at UKP
500 a time.

But the Sunday Mercury has discovered that Midland addicts are buying it
illegally from an online herbalist.

Now Ibogaine therapists, who offer expensive treatment programmes, are
warning the DIY detox approach could kill.

“It is not advisable for drug addicts to attempt an Ibogaine treatment
programme on their own,” one therapist said.

“Everyone reacts differently to Ibogaine and it could be dangerous if you
don’t know what you are doing.  It has been known for people to die after
taking Ibogaine.”

It is believed four people have died from taking the drug, including one
in
Britain.

Ibogaine is an unlicensed drug in the UK, and cannot be sold without a
prescription.  But despite this restriction, one UK distributor continues
to sell a derivative of the drug online.

Last week, the Sunday Mercury bought 10 grammes of Iboga root bark
capsules
for UKP 28.98.

In an e-mail exchange the webmaster told our reporter: “I am the only
salesman of Iboga in England and supply it to people all over the country,
including in the Midlands.

“Most of my customers have been mothers who are desperate to get their
kids
off drugs.  One of them told me she has a son who was hooked on heroin and
crack.  Iboga got him off the stuff.”

We contacted the seller later to tell him what he was doing was illegal.

“I was unaware that the Department of Health said selling Ibogaine is
illegal,” he claimed.  “Thanks for the tip.  However, I only sell Ibogaine
root bark so it should be OK.”

Last night, a spokesman for the Department of Health advised our reporter
to alert the Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency.

<]=———————————————————————–=[

[           Moderated by: Preston Peet |
.drugwar.com           ]
|          -=/[ To Subscribe: drugwar-subscribe@mindvox.com ]/=-
|
|             To Unsubscribe: drugwar-unsubscribe@mindvox.com
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] IMPORTANT- any EKG suggestions?
Date: July 26, 2004 at 5:30:45 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks Jon.
Just to let you all know, I had exactly ZERO problem getting the EKG
done today, once I finally got the number of a doctor’s office on 22nd.
Street, a cardiologist’s office.
Howard gave me a good idea too, but turns out I didn’t need to go that
route, but thanks anyway for the call Howard.
Anyway, it appears that despite my fears and worries I have a perfectly
healthy heart, so that’s one hurdle over and one step closer.
I’m getting nervouser and nervouser, but much more exciteder and
exciteder too. I’ve begun to set aside 15 to 20 minutes an evening for
silent contemplation, taking time to ask questions of whatever powers that
be, to show me where I should be, how I should go about getting there, what
can/should I be doing to improve myself and my immediate surroundings day by
day, and other related but simple questions like this. Seems almost like I
know the answers too, or should anyway, but am hoping that perhaps the
iboga-spirits (or whatever it is) can and will help me figure out not only
the answers but why I have so far all my freakin’ life, so much trouble
taking the answers and running with them.
Ibogaine/Ibeginagain.
I like that one DH.
;-))
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Jon Ludlam” <seraphina@compuserve.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 2:34 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] IMPORTANT- any EKG suggestions?

Message text written by INTERNET:ibogaine@mindvox.com
Wish me luck folks.
Peace and love,
Preston<

GOOD LUCK PRESTON!!!!!!!!!

Jon Ludlam

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: Carlos Jäger <jaegerca@student.ethz.ch>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] psychosis
Date: July 26, 2004 at 4:15:17 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Howard

I define the psychotic mind as experiencing convulsing thinking all the time, hearing voices, lack of  concentration, suicidal thoughts now and then, short panic attacks and stuff like that. In short the absence of peace of mind. Nowadays I am having long dreams that I can remember, and continue every night as if one could lead during sleep a kind of parallel life. Very weird.

Maybe psychotic is not the right definition, but it was the first word that came to my mind.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

Carlos

On Jul 25, 2004, at 12:01 AM, HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 7/24/04 2:33:28 PM, jaegerca@student.ethz.ch writes:

<< hi everybody, this my first post on this list. does anyone know if
ibogaine will bring some relief to a psychotic mind? >>

Carlos,

Can you provide some greater detail as to how you define the psychotic mind?

Thanks

Howard

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From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] List Annoucement
Date: July 26, 2004 at 2:53:08 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

<Handing Shiny Gold Star to Mr. Gamma>: Dave, you’re in charge of
everything.  If you experience any problems, Jon Freedlander will help
you untangle and solve ALL PROBLEMS that afflict the list in
particular, and humanity as a whole.  Whoopsie, no, wait, I forget to
make Jon a shell account.  C’est La’vie, shit happens.

ehehe… there must be something in the stars that proclaims now to be the
time to ask jon to fix machines that he doesn’t have access to. currently,
there are three machines here at work that people keep hounding me to
install ssh on. i keep telling them i would have a much better chance of
installing it successfully if i have logins on the boxen…

and if i’m supposed to be fixing humanity’s problems, i’ll need root
access on the human race too =)

Jon, just, ya know, say something soothing.  I will POP my mail once
every few days, but I’m really not gonna be replying to anything.  I
need a headcheck.

hmmm… something soothing…

umm… ok, well, how about this. bush used to be a raging alcoholic,
right? so maybe he’ll die of cirrhosis of the liver sometime soon…

course, that would make cheney president then.. so i guess that really
isn’t all that soothing. unless bush dies of cirrhosis of the liver AND
cheney dies of a heart attack at the exact same moment.

Dana … we need a downloadable cannabis plug-in.  When will that
arrive?

how about this…

http://www.budbuddy.biz/

it’s not exactly a plug in, and it only works in canada.

but damn does it make me want to move to canada =)

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From: Jon Ludlam <seraphina@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] IMPORTANT- any EKG suggestions?
Date: July 26, 2004 at 2:34:29 PM EDT
To: “INTERNET:ibogaine@mindvox.com” <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Message text written by INTERNET:ibogaine@mindvox.com
Wish me luck folks.
Peace and love,
Preston<

GOOD LUCK PRESTON!!!!!!!!!

Jon Ludlam

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] IMPORTANT- any EKG suggestions?
Date: July 26, 2004 at 1:58:25 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jim wisely scribbled >So tell you doc you were chaseing you nephew around and had trouble breathing and it sort of hurt in the middle of your chest.  Not too bad but never had it before, kinda a tighting thing. If he ask did the pain go to your arms tell him no, more in my chest, I just thought I would metion it to you, like I say I never had it before.<

Good plan. I was just sitting here thinking, trying to formulate what exactly I was gonna say, so now I hvae a good idea- a nehphew huh? How about one of my 10 cats? LOL!

>By  the way the guy from from prison planet is going to be on rense.com tonight at 10:00. (your time).  Now if you don’t want me to bring these to you attention please say so and I won’t.  I realize not everyone is interested in the same thing as I am and there will be no hard feelings, just let me know.  I don’t want to be a pest.  Sometimes I like it when someone sends me a link and other times I don’t.  So don’t be afraid to tell me to stop, I understand your a busy man and for all I know might be a Bush fan – just kidding.<

NO, I always appreciate this sort of thing, personally anyway, don’t know about the rest of the subscribers here. If I don’t want info, I simply delete it or ignore it. I seldom if ever tell someone not to post it.

>Tell Dr. Thomas I said he is an asshole.<
I rarely if ever see him. He’s not my doctor, so I tend to avoid him if at all possible. My own doc is much nicer and more amenable. That all said, hopefully soon I won’t have to tell either of them much at all so often as I do these days. Hopefully my need to see/speak with even my own pain doc with dramatically decrease soon.
;-))
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 1:27 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] IMPORTANT- any EKG suggestions?

Hi Preston,

About two months ago my daughter wanted me to play monster.  I chase her and try to catch her and put her in the oven.  And I just miss catching her.  She is 8 years old.  Well I was playing with her and a nephew who was 5 years old and I got  short winded, couldn’t breath too good,  had to stop and for some unknowen reason I have had pain on the left side that been hurting for 4 or 5 years, nobody knows why.  He orderded an empazema test or two which I did in the office right there and then.  And he scheduled me for an EKG.  I got a little emphazema.  Heart’s fine.

So tell you doc you were chaseing you nephew around and had trouble breathing and it sort of hurt in the middle of your chest.  Not too bad but never had it before, kinda a tighting thing. If he ask did the pain go to your arms tell him no, more in my chest, I just thought I would metion it to you, like I say I never had it before.

By  the way the guy from from prison planet is going to be on rense.com tonight at 10:00. (your time).  Now if you don’t want me to bring these to you attention please say so and I won’t.  I realize not everyone is interested in the same thing as I am and there will be no hard feelings, just let me know.  I don’t want to be a pest.  Sometimes I like it when someone sends me a link and other times I don’t.  So don’t be afraid to tell me to stop, I understand your a busy man and for all I know might be a Bush fan – just kidding.
Tell Dr. Thomas I said he is an asshole.

Best to ya,

– JIM
Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Hi all,
I’ve been an idiot it appears, putting off getting my EKG thinking it
would be a quick and easy thing.
So, I just called my doctor’s office to make an appointment for my EKG,
so I can actually do ibogaine, and have to bring in $142 just to see the
doctor, who will then decide whether or not to order the EKG for me.
Unfortunately, my own regular doctor is out of town on leave so I’ll be
seeing an intern.
My questions are these:

How much does an EKG usually cost?
Is it possible the doctor will tell me no?
Why exactly is the EKG necessary?
What is it looking for- in other words, what can it tell me/provider
that will keep me from actually doing ibogaine? Because I’m going to be
really upset if this stupid thing shows some reason why I can’t take, (or
why someone won’t give me) ibogaine.
This is becoming yet another very expensive endeavor, granted a lot less
than continued overuse of pain killers but still, it’s a pretty big outlay
for something that may very well turn out to kill my chances to take
ibogaine. So I’m now worrying about something else, besides the simple
“taking ibogaine” thing itself.
So, any suggestions as to any way of doing this cheaper, so that I still
get my results back this week would be much appreciated.
Would it be easier to just go into the emergency room? Would I get
results back faster? Would it be cheaper?
Another question- what should I tell my doctor as to WHY I need an EKG
done- which might just be my most important question here.
Any replies would before 2PM today would be VERY appreciated, as that’s
when I go to see my doc to see about getting a Wednesday appointment for the
EKG, which is apparently the only day they do these through my doctor’s
office.
Thanks in adnance for any suggestions or advice.
Peace,
Preston

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RE: [ibogaine] AnyoneFormer’done gone2Bupe
Date: July 26, 2004 at 1:44:41 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Terrell,

I sent one on bupe and depression  http://balder.prohosting.com/~adhpage/bupe.html
it may be the one you want.  Patient # 1 fits me to a “T” – no energy.  Preston Peat had a good article about  bupe and the liver.  I would say if it doesn’t cause a problem give bupe a chance.  I will see a doc for bupe this Wed.  I still don’t know which way I’ll go.  Some people like it some don’t.  I always feel whatever works for you.

Best to ya,

– JIM

Terrell Tye <trtye@gci.net> wrote:
Brad, So you’re the originator of that thread. I thought it was Jim. Anyway, I can’t believe how good I feel right now. As I mentioned, on Fri. night I had quite a bit to drink and didn’t actually go to bed til around 3:30am. So you’d think I’d be really tired and get to sleep early on Sat. night (remember I’m 51 and hangovers cost dearly the older you get). Well, I got my jammies on and got in the bed with my laptop at around 10:30 pm Sat. nite. I even took 5mg valium, cause I didn’t feel sleepy. I was wide awake until 7:00 am and that’s after taking another 10mgs valium. I slept till 11:30 and got up and felt great. I’m usually a bear/bitch/jerk unless I get at least 7 hours of sleep and I felt none of that. I just felt good, energized. Same this morning, woke up at about 5:45am (again I normally sleep til 9:00 at least). I tried to get back to sleep by taking 10 mg valium but the bupe says “hey, get up…you don’t need the sleep”. I was going to use this as a detox for m

ethadone over a month’s taper but I’m beginning to rethink that. My biggest problem when not doing opiates is the depression and utter lack of energy. If I have to go back to that, I’d rather stay on a maitenance dose. This extra energy may just be an initial reaction but it certainly is a pleasant one. Good luck to you on tapering off the done and switching over.
By the way, there were a couple of posts that referred to a great site about bupe and it’s physiological effects (adverse or otherwise) but I missed the post with the URL. Can anyone provide that for me again? Thanks so much, trtye

From Brad Fisher
Sent Monday, July 26, 2004 7:32 am
To trtye@gci.net
Cc
Bcc
Subject RE: [ibogaine] AnyoneFormer’done gone2Bupe

——————————————————————————–

Thank you for printing the weeks schedule coming off… I am on an unusually high dose of Methadone (I am a rapid metabolizer) and have been for 5 years. My (baby) just graduated from Hi School and now I am thinking of coming off. I wanted and needed the stability Methadone provided for her last few years at home and school. Now I believe is a better time for the turmoil of kicking…. I’ve read different acct.’s/reports you have the experiance of actually doing it, most others are suggestions.
bf

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Read only the mail you want – Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.

From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] IMPORTANT- any EKG suggestions?
Date: July 26, 2004 at 1:27:15 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Preston,

About two months ago my daughter wanted me to play monster.  I chase her and try to catch her and put her in the oven.  And I just miss catching her.  She is 8 years old.  Well I was playing with her and a nephew who was 5 years old and I got  short winded, couldn’t breath too good,  had to stop and for some unknowen reason I have had pain on the left side that been hurting for 4 or 5 years, nobody knows why.  He orderded an empazema test or two which I did in the office right there and then.  And he scheduled me for an EKG.  I got a little emphazema.  Heart’s fine.

So tell you doc you were chaseing you nephew around and had trouble breathing and it sort of hurt in the middle of your chest.  Not too bad but never had it before, kinda a tighting thing. If he ask did the pain go to your arms tell him no, more in my chest, I just thought I would metion it to you, like I say I never had it before.

By  the way the guy from from prison planet is going to be on rense.com tonight at 10:00. (your time).  Now if you don’t want me to bring these to you attention please say so and I won’t.  I realize not everyone is interested in the same thing as I am and there will be no hard feelings, just let me know.  I don’t want to be a pest.  Sometimes I like it when someone sends me a link and other times I don’t.  So don’t be afraid to tell me to stop, I understand your a busy man and for all I know might be a Bush fan – just kidding.
Tell Dr. Thomas I said he is an asshole.

Best to ya,

– JIM
Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Hi all,
I’ve been an idiot it appears, putting off getting my EKG thinking it
would be a quick and easy thing.
So, I just called my doctor’s office to make an appointment for my EKG,
so I can actually do ibogaine, and have to bring in $142 just to see the
doctor, who will then decide whether or not to order the EKG for me.
Unfortunately, my own regular doctor is out of town on leave so I’ll be
seeing an intern.
My questions are these:

How much does an EKG usually cost?
Is it possible the doctor will tell me no?
Why exactly is the EKG necessary?
What is it looking for- in other words, what can it tell me/provider
that will keep me from actually doing ibogaine? Because I’m going to be
really upset if this stupid thing shows some reason why I can’t take, (or
why someone won’t give me) ibogaine.
This is becoming yet another very expensive endeavor, granted a lot less
than continued overuse of pain killers but still, it’s a pretty big outlay
for something that may very well turn out to kill my chances to take
ibogaine. So I’m now worrying about something else, besides the simple
“taking ibogaine” thing itself.
So, any suggestions as to any way of doing this cheaper, so that I still
get my results back this week would be much appreciated.
Would it be easier to just go into the emergency room? Would I get
results back faster? Would it be cheaper?
Another question- what should I tell my doctor as to WHY I need an EKG
done- which might just be my most important question here.
Any replies would before 2PM today would be VERY appreciated, as that’s
when I go to see my doc to see about getting a Wednesday appointment for the
EKG, which is apparently the only day they do these through my doctor’s
office.
Thanks in adnance for any suggestions or advice.
Peace,
Preston

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Tapering effects?
Date: July 26, 2004 at 1:02:46 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/26/2004 7:13:22 AM Central Daylight Time, BiscuitBoy714@aol.com writes:
Hi all, What about bringing down a meth dose and sudden withdrawal from Paxil. Would that cause feet to swell?   Thanx     Randy

Hi Randy, I am not sure about the Paxil but when there has been any change in my Methadone dose I have noticed my feet sometimes swell. This is usually when I have taken extra Methadone though.
Now this next statement is here say (is that how you spell it?!). An acquaintance from the Methadone Clinic said his liver problems got worse when he was detoxing from Methadone. He explained it but I really can’t remember what he said.
It does make sense to me that there might be extra stress on any or all of our organs during detox since we are physically addicted.
Poor circulation in lower extremities can cause swelling.
I encourage you to keep them elevated above your heart level whenever you can.
I hate it when my feet and ankles swell!
Good luck with your taper!
Callie

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] IMPORTANT- any EKG suggestions?
Date: July 26, 2004 at 12:51:21 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

To everyone who called/wrote in response,
I say thanks very much for the fast replies and suggestions, you’ve all been
most helpful. I got the name/address of a doctor on 22nd street who can and
will do an EKG today for $50.
That’s the route I am going to go I think.
So, as long as it turns out ok, I’m one step closer to a new freedom of
sorts, as noted, as long as everything goes ok today.
Wish me luck folks.
Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Aktionman22@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 11:28 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] IMPORTANT- any EKG suggestions?

preston…
i went to a hospital e.r. for my pre-ibo ekg. they did it no q’s asked.
marcus

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From: Terrell Tye <trtye@gci.net>
Subject: Re: RE: [ibogaine] AnyoneFormer’done gone2Bupe
Date: July 26, 2004 at 12:17:56 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Brad, So you’re the originator of that thread. I thought it was Jim.  Anyway, I can’t believe how good I feel right now. As I mentioned, on Fri. night I had quite a bit to drink and didn’t actually go to bed til around 3:30am. So you’d think I’d be really tired and get to sleep early on Sat. night (remember I’m 51 and hangovers cost dearly the older you get). Well, I got my jammies on and got in the bed with my laptop at around 10:30 pm Sat. nite. I even took 5mg valium, cause I didn’t feel sleepy. I was wide awake until 7:00 am and that’s after taking another 10mgs valium. I slept till 11:30 and got up and felt great. I’m usually a bear/bitch/jerk unless I get at least 7 hours of sleep and I felt none of that. I just felt good, energized. Same this morning, woke up at about 5:45am (again I normally sleep til 9:00 at least). I tried to get back to sleep by taking 10 mg valium but the bupe says “hey, get up…you don’t need the sleep”.  I was going to use this as a detox for m

ethadone over a month’s taper but I’m beginning to rethink that. My biggest problem when not doing opiates is the depression and utter lack of energy. If I have to go back to that, I’d rather stay on a maitenance dose. This extra energy may just be an initial reaction but it certainly is a pleasant one. Good luck to you on tapering off the done and switching over.
By the way, there were a couple of posts that referred to a great site about bupe and it’s physiological effects (adverse or otherwise) but I missed the post with the URL. Can anyone provide that for me again? Thanks so much, trtye

From  Brad Fisher <brad.fisher@guaranty.com>
Sent  Monday, July 26, 2004 7:32 am
To  trtye@gci.net
Cc
Bcc
Subject  RE: [ibogaine] AnyoneFormer’done gone2Bupe

——————————————————————————–

Thank you for printing the weeks schedule coming off… I am on an unusually high dose of Methadone (I am a rapid metabolizer) and have been for 5 years. My (baby) just graduated from Hi School and now I am thinking of coming off. I wanted and needed the stability Methadone provided for her last few years at home and school. Now I believe is a better time for the turmoil of kicking…. I’ve read different acct.’s/reports you have the experiance of actually doing it, most others are suggestions.
bf

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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] IMPORTANT- any EKG suggestions?
Date: July 26, 2004 at 12:16:46 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello all. leavin this morning to Mexico. So excited!!! Thanks again Howard, and yes  I would consider it it privlage for you to compile all of my rants of before and after and look back on it no matter what the out come. But lets do a spell check and throw some grammer in there to make it a little more bareable to read.  But I have faith that the outcome will be a positive one or at least I have a ghood feeling that I’m gonna get what I need from this as well as loosing this nasty habit of mine.
My approch and my resolve are so different that they’ve ever been. Just one example is that since I started shooting dope almost 10 years ago I have always been interested in “tar”. Always curious why its powder on the east and mostly tar out here in Cali. I always thought it was funny that all the west coast dopefiends that found there was to NY would alwayts talk about how much better the dope is out west and always wondered if the dope was so much better why were they living on the street in NY in the winter? Anyway my m.o. has always been when I get to a new city is to find the “hood” find someone who has that “dope look”, we all know so well, and find drugs. my versious of a tourist attraction, if you will. So when I got here it was obvious that I’d probably have a very easy time copping and I could finally try the tar… and then I’d be done. But it was the most fleeting thought I’ve had. Something inside of me said “thats not why were here”. And that was that. Needing to know, or my sick curiousity has got me where I am today. I thought about all the people pulling for me and my poor mom after all there years still by my side and that was it. I’ve shot enough shit for at least 5 or 6 lifetimes. ENOUGH! And strangly enough that was it. Gone.
I drank my last bottle of meth this morning and poured my extra bottle down the toilet. So now I really am 3,000 miles way with no meth and it feels fuckin great. Totally different that terrible feeling of fear that has come over me in the past. I did fuck up and forget my Nexium and that does fill me with a little fear but I’m sure the doctors will take care of that. I’m gonna eat breakfest now but I’ll drop you all a note once I’m settled in Mexico.
Preston, if you don’t have insurence the EKG will cost you about 100 bucks minium. So what I say you do is go to B.I. or Cabrini and tell them your having chest pain and request that they do an ekg. When the listen to your heart ore right before hold your breat for a bit so they deem it medically nessisary and then they have to give you a copy  NY state law. All medical info on you is your property.  Thats what I would do.
Or go to a walk in up town (E 106 and Third )and cough up the loot. It’ll be cheaper up there but by how much I don’t know.
Thanks for all of the good thoughts and I can’t tell you how much it means to me to know that I’ll have good vibes sent my way all this week, its really comforting to know that all of these good people care and will be thinking of me. I’ll keep you all posted.
I can’t wait!!!! -Love – Mark Corcoran

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Hi all,
I’ve been an idiot it appears, putting off getting my EKG thinking it
would be a quick and easy thing.
So, I just called my doctor’s office to make an appointment for my EKG,
so I can actually do ibogaine, and have to bring in $142 just to see the
doctor, who will then decide whether or not to order the EKG for me.
Unfortunately, my own regular doctor is out of town on leave so I’ll be
seeing an intern.
My questions are these:

How much does an EKG usually cost?
Is it possible the doctor will tell me no?
Why exactly is the EKG necessary?
What is it looking for- in other words, what can it tell me/provider
that will keep me from actually doing ibogaine? Because I’m going to be
really upset if this stupid thing shows some reason why I can’t take, (or
why someone won’t give me) ibogaine.
This is becoming yet another very expensive endeavor, granted a lot less
than continued overuse of pain killers but still, it’s a pretty big outlay
for something that may very well turn out to kill my chances to take
ibogaine. So I’m now worrying about something else, besides the simple
“taking ibogaine” thing itself.
So, any suggestions as to any way of doing this cheaper, so that I still
get my results back this week would be much appreciated.
Would it be easier to just go into the emergency room? Would I get
results back faster? Would it be cheaper?
Another question- what should I tell my doctor as to WHY I need an EKG
done- which might just be my most important question here.
Any replies would before 2PM today would be VERY appreciated, as that’s
when I go to see my doc to see about getting a Wednesday appointment for the
EKG, which is apparently the only day they do these through my doctor’s
office.
Thanks in adnance for any suggestions or advice.
Peace,
Preston

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Hel

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From: Aktionman22@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] IMPORTANT- any EKG suggestions?
Date: July 26, 2004 at 11:28:41 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

preston…
i went to a hospital e.r. for my pre-ibo ekg. they did it no q’s asked.
marcus

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] IMPORTANT- any EKG suggestions?
Date: July 26, 2004 at 11:10:47 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi all,
I’ve been an idiot it appears, putting off getting my EKG thinking it
would be a quick and easy thing.
So, I just called my doctor’s office to make an appointment for my EKG,
so I can actually do ibogaine, and have to bring in $142 just to see the
doctor, who will then decide whether or not to order the EKG for me.
Unfortunately, my own regular doctor is out of town on leave so I’ll be
seeing an intern.
My questions are these:

How much does an EKG usually cost?
Is it possible the doctor will tell me no?
Why exactly is the EKG necessary?
What is it looking for- in other words, what can it tell me/provider
that will keep me from actually doing ibogaine? Because I’m going to be
really upset if this stupid thing shows some reason why I can’t take, (or
why someone won’t give me) ibogaine.
This is becoming yet another very expensive endeavor, granted a lot less
than continued overuse of pain killers but still, it’s a pretty big outlay
for something that may very well turn out to kill my chances to take
ibogaine. So I’m now worrying about something else, besides the simple
“taking ibogaine” thing itself.
So, any suggestions as to any way of doing this cheaper, so that I still
get my results back this week would be much appreciated.
Would it be easier to just go into the emergency room? Would I get
results back faster? Would it be cheaper?
Another question- what should I tell my doctor as to WHY I need an EKG
done- which might just be my most important question here.
Any replies would before 2PM today would be VERY appreciated, as that’s
when I go to see my doc to see about getting a Wednesday appointment for the
EKG, which is apparently the only day they do these through my doctor’s
office.
Thanks in adnance for any suggestions or advice.
Peace,
Preston

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Tapering effects?
Date: July 26, 2004 at 10:53:42 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/26/04 5:39:34 AM, BiscuitBoy714@aol.com writes:

Hey all,        I am dropping my dose in preparation for the Ibogaine
treatment. Right now I’m at 40 mgs. but stated at 80 a while back. Has
anyone heard
of swelling of the feet as being a side effect of this? Thanx

Follow Jim’s advice.  See a doctor. Go to http://www.rxlist.com and check for
side effects of paxil or go to
http://www.readybb.com/nama_wespeakmethadone/viewforum.php?f=13 and post the question about your feet swelling and methadone
withdrawal.

Let us know what is up.

Howard

Howard

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From: Terrell Tye <trtye@gci.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Tapering effects?
Date: July 26, 2004 at 10:50:53 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I always tended to retain water on higher doses of methadone. You should not be seeing that
while reducing as much as you have, IMO. I agree with Jim, report it to the nurses or doctor at your clinic.

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Tapering effects?
Date: July 26, 2004 at 9:56:51 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Randy,

I have never heard of it but that doesn’t mean much.  Usually that means your retaining water or something like a diabetic.  I would mention it to someone.  Maybe like when you get your methadone dose you can mention it to the person who gives it to you and they probably will not know but may mention it to someone who mentions it to the doc etc. and you will have a hunch.   IMHO, it could cause problems.  And BiscuitBoy714 your not one of those old people you see in nursing homes with their legs all full of water.

Just a tip on how to get a little free medical advice.  Or, there is always something on the net I am sure you can find, but that’s just guessing.  Hey, I just remembered something.  Me and my doc were talking and he said in the last stages of liver disease you stomach swells and you retain water.  I would say if you got insurance, what the hell get it checked out.  If no insurance are there any free clinics around?

Best to ya,

– JIM

BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:
Hi all, What about bringing down a meth dose and sudden withdrawal from Paxil. Would that cause feet to swell?   Thanx     Randy

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Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete – You start. We finish.

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Tapering effects?
Date: July 26, 2004 at 8:12:32 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi all, What about bringing down a meth dose and sudden withdrawal from Paxil. Would that cause feet to swell?   Thanx     Randy

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Remedy
Date: July 26, 2004 at 6:59:56 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanx for the tip I’ll try it. Its weird to reply to someone on time I’m usually late with replys because what I do its usually 5 or 6 in the morning when I’m on and no one else is around much. Cool  Thanx          Randy

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Stones
Date: July 26, 2004 at 6:46:48 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yea, they talk about it on Exile on main street.  Torn and Frayed – Joe’s got a cough sounds kinda rough  ooo and the codeine to fix it. Dr. prescribes, drug store supplies  whoooo’s gonna help him to kick it.  Man I love the Stones     Randy

From: Ambeatty@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Pulling teeth
Date: July 26, 2004 at 6:42:31 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

A wonderful home remedy especially good for the swelling that comes after tooth work (or to be used anytime) is cayenne pepper.
You swallow a teaspoon, more or less. It can be put in gel caps. It can be swallowed straight, but don’t let it sit in your mouth. I follow with water and/or yogurt to cleanse the taste. Don’t take on an empty stomach, the only counterindication.
Cayenne is very healthy, cleanses the blood, can be taken every day. It is good after a trauma like a car accident to prevent shock and get you back in your body. After having wisdom teeth removed, it pushes the healing process along, minimizing swelling.

Mandy

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Tapering effects?
Date: July 26, 2004 at 6:38:15 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey all,        I am dropping my dose in preparation for the Ibogaine treatment. Right now I’m at 40 mgs. but stated at 80 a while back. Has anyone heard of swelling of the feet as being a side effect of this? Thanx          Randy

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran
Date: July 26, 2004 at 1:01:54 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

iboga iboga iboga
i will begin again
iboga iboga iboga
i will begin again
iboga iboga iboga
i will begin again
iboga iboga iboga
i will begin again
iboga iboga iboga
i will begin again
iboga iboga iboga
i will begin again
iboga iboga iboga
i will begin again
iboga iboga iboga
i will begin again
<repeat>

On Sunday, July 25, 2004, at 11:10 AM, mcorcoran wrote:

I’m sitting on my hotel bed in sunny San Diego after taking what has turned out to be the most stressful trip of my life. No ticket waiting for me at JFK then no rervastion on file at the hotel. It hasnt been easy. But tomorrow I’m off to Mexico where my journey really begins. I’m still nervous as hell but it is so worth it. My friends and family are pulling for me like I never even imagined it would be so cool to come back whole.
I still havent slept since Friday night so I’m gonna try and catch a couple but thaqnks to all of you and I’ll get on when I wake from this well needed nap.
BTW- San Diego is beautiful…. weird cuz I think they might have a bigger homeless problem than NY but with this weather that makes > sense.
Okay I’ll  be in touch. -mc

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Mc…..More well wishes!
Date: July 25, 2004 at 10:44:08 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Mc, I am so fuckin’ excited for you! You better get some zzzz’s cuz what I have read from folks on list you won’t want or be able to sleep after your ‘treatment journey’!
Best wishes and prayers and LOTS and LOTS of good Mojo being sent your way right now!
I will be thinking of you often!
Friend love, Callie

From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran
Date: July 25, 2004 at 5:10:33 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m sitting on my hotel bed in sunny San Diego after taking what has turned out to be the most stressful trip of my life. No ticket waiting for me at JFK then no rervastion on file at the hotel. It hasnt been easy. But tomorrow I’m off to Mexico where my journey really begins. I’m still nervous as hell but it is so worth it. My friends and family are pulling for me like I never even imagined it would be so cool to come back whole.
I still havent slept since Friday night so I’m gonna try and catch a couple but thaqnks to all of you and I’ll get on when I wake from this well needed nap.
BTW- San Diego is beautiful…. weird cuz I think they might have a bigger homeless problem than NY but with this weather that makes sense.
Okay I’ll  be in touch. -mc

Hannah Clay <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com> wrote:
I assume you’re talikgn about cocaine ‘bugs’? I never did know what people
were talking about when they said that! Now I’m glad I didn’t ever find
out,lol!

Mark-I think we’ll all be thinking of you and sending positive lurve vibes
your way,lol!
Hannah
—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet”
To:
Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 12:41 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran

> “your so brave”
> LOL.
> Seriously brave guy, I am excited for you.
> I for one am glad you surviced that cocaine incident- god damn but I
> remember that feeling of fear so well, that absolute terror telling
someone,
> “hey, go get help, I’m going to die,” and watching them not move, not get
> up, not do anything at all but sit there as the huge bugs began crawling
> around my face and body, so big I could feel them crunching in my fingers
as
> I yanked them from my face but couldn’t hear the pop as the strobe light
was
> too loud in my ears and I couldn’t see the damn things
because…well…they
> weren’t really there.
> Those were the days, eh?
> Peace and love to you Mark.
> Preston (make sure to fill us in upon your return. DON’T leave those of us
> still waiting in the lurch, PLEASE.)
>
>
> —– Original Message —–
> From: mcorcoran
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 6:32 PM
> Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran
>
>
> I had this dream last night that my plane was hijacked and I was trying to
> sneak in the bathroom to drink my bottles, sick huh? Maybe no more 9-11
> report before my Ibo treatment. Oh my God, I’m leavin the day after
> tomorrow. I dropped to 80 today. i guess for no other reason than kickin
an
> 80 sounds a lot more doable than a 90 or 100 or 110.
> Hey not bad for 4 weeks. But I’m not feelin all that great i have to tell
> you. But not terrible either. Excited as hell one minute scared to death
the
> next. But I guess thats normal. If one more person says “your so brave” I
> think I’ll puke. I mean I appreciate th sentiment, I really do. but I
don’t
> want this to be a thing where I need to be “soo brave” I want this to be a
> little easier than everyone seems to think. Not you guys of course. :o)
Well
> not all of you anyway. I’m feeling empowered these last few days. i guess
> looking at the prospect of being free makes me realize that a lot of the
> things that I do in my life that I’m not happy with I put up with because
in
> one way or another because if I didn’t it would make my use that much more
> difficult. Hate my job, but there is not much chance that I could make
this
> kinda money doing something I like, and I need this money for my expensive
> program, and my frivolous spending due to drugs and alcohol. My Apartment,
> its a nice place but I wouldn’t be breaking my neck trying to pay this
> ridiculous rent if it wasn’t so convenient to my program and my drinking
> haunts. Oh and Harlem being 15 blocks away has been a plus as well. Ya
know,
> shit like that. So the idea that I no longer need to live with that fear
> that if it all came crumbling down (which it feels like its going to at
any
> minute) I’d be totally screwed, is really comforting. I walked out of the
> office this afternoon and thought to myself that its more likely than not
> that I will never step foot in that place again, and instead of that fear
I
> usually feel when I think I might lose my job and wont have money coming
in,
> it was a feeling of complete relief. It was like “Thank God I’m finally
> closing the door on this miserable part of my life”. I couldn’t stop
smiling
> all the way home.
> Then on the subway I see this guy that I used to run with (Preston you’d
> know him) and he looked like death warmed over. “Just came home from doin
90
> days on the Island and lookin for dope and coke and headin uptown”. I
told
> him about the Ibogaine and he didn’t seem to have much thoughts one way or
> another. He said that it seemed like I was doing well to begin with then
he
> began to talk about how fucked up used to be and “do you remember the
time
> you had that coke OD seize running out of that restaurant on 5th St, cuz
the
> guy caught you in the bathroom fixing?” I acted like I didn’t know what he
> was talkin about but I remember obviously and instead of responding
further
> I kept asking him to keep his voice down. Actually I remembered it like it
> was yesterday after he mentioned it, just slamming the whole 20 because I
> was already so freaked out that he had burst in on me… and my legs are
> giving out and my arms are starting to go and I know its coming… I
turned
> around and said “please sir, I’m gonna die” He said something like” yeah
you
> are gonna die” but before he had a chance I collapsed and bounced around
> like a fish out of water. God its crazy because I haven’t been that kinda
> cracked out. Now 8 or 9 years later I’m an undercover junkie. But even
> though I’m about the furthest thing from that kid I was now but I’m more
> miserable than I’ve ever been.
> Anyway I got off at my stop and he continued uptown but as a got off the
> train immediately I felt better and it felt like I was supposed to see
him.
> I mean this is a kid I used to run with every day that I haven’t seen in 7
> or 8 years. Been thinking so much about my past and all the people who are
> dead and gone and how things have changed so much in less than 10 years.
> Sorry for that ramble. I’m just so all over the place. But I’m doing good.
> Gonna go watch the news.
> Thanks for everything and tonight I will respond to all.
>
> D H wrote:
>
> On Thursday, July 22, 2004, at 09:33 PM, Hannah Clay wrote:
>
> > Nice words DH, made me cry! What if you suddenly realise there ain’t
> > no music in your head no more? And you can’t even be sure what tune
> > it used to be?
>
> Hannah
>
> a lot of your story rings true for me too.
>
> Now why is it that I make women cry??? :^) (Not the music in your
> head… in your heart!)
>
> I have often found myself thinking the same thing, no music, no joy,
> what is it all coming to?
>
> I don’t have any easy answers to that. My first thought was, This girl
> needs some Ibogaine! or perhaps a toke off a really good indica joint.
> Except that can be a little too revealing if you are strung out (maybe
> that would be a good thing, i dunno) But I will say I avoided smoking
> weed when I was doing smack and crack, it made me too! aware of myself.
> which is the opposite of what I was trying to accomplish.
>
> But if the above are not options, I’d say do something good for your
> soul. Take a walk by yourself or with a close friend in a park or on
> the beach or near a river or lake or wherever is peaceful near where
> you live. Treat yourself to an ice cream or go to a music store and
> listen to something you’ve never heard before. write crazy thoughts
> down… getting them onto paper or computer screen takes them out of
> your head, and allows room for creativity, inspiration and that music
> of the heart. Geez, that sounds really fucking corny but it works. It
> may take days/weeks of writing/journaling to get the flow…
>
> You are right, finding that music in the heart is important.
>
> for me, it is knowing that at the deepest core level, I am a good
> person, a pure soul, no matter what the head tells me, or anyone else,
> for that matter. Undoubtedly Ibogaine made me ! aware of this, before Ibo
> I was just going thru the motions, and kept returning to dope no matter
> how hard I tried, or what treatment I did.
>
> But ultimately, getting off the shit will make your life
> tremendously… better. Or different anyhow. I don’t recall hearing any
> music in my heart when I was using. The only thing I heard was chaotic
> noise.
>
> > Hey, on the opiate detox site I use 2 people posted that you shouldn’t
> > take Ibogaine if you’re a woman-its dangerous! Where on earth did
> > they get that from?
>
> I do remember reading this along time ago, back in 1996-7. I think it
> stems from the fact that a woman died while on Ibogaine in Europe back
> then, but I don’t know of any science or statistics that support this.
>
> Howard?
>
> Peace,
>
> _.dh
>
>
>
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Vote for the stars of Yahoo!’s next ad campaign!
>
>
>
>
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Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail is new and improved – Check it out!

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route you take it
Date: July 25, 2004 at 2:24:20 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Correcting my previous post:
the lyric is:
“I was standing in line with Mr. Jimmy”

I always thought it was reference to cough syrup, knowing Mick and especially Keith back then, any variety would do…

_.dh

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From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route you take it
Date: July 25, 2004 at 7:47:31 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Erm…not sure about the Stones reference.  I didn’t think it’d been around
here for that long so I’m not sure about it being a problem in the 60’s.
Its definately been a major problem in France though-I think they had
problems with people hitting it up?  I’ll ask around about the Stones ref (I
love the Stones).

Thanks too-I’m always getting Naloxone n Naltrexone confused!

Hoe you’re having a nice Sunday?  I can’t wait to hear how Marcus is doing,
I guess he might be on a plane now! I really should get off my PC-my boyf is
getting really mardy!
Hx
—– Original Message —–
From: “trtye” <trtye@gci.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2004 12:15 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route
you take it

Hannah:
I could swear that somewhere I read that Bupe had been a big drug problem
in
England back in the 60’s and 70’s. And that in the Stones’ “YOU CAN’T
ALWAYS
GET WHAT YOU WANT”, that the line “Went down to see Mr. Jimmy” was a
reference to buprenorphine (a nickname, like horse for H). Have you ever
heard this? Thanks, Terrell

—– Original Message —–
From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2004 3:04 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route
you take it

I’ve heard of loadsa Doctors who don’t know what they’re talking about
when
it comes to Sub!  My Doc here in the UK still maintains that its not
addictive even though I’ve heard many personal accounts that beg to
differ.
It seems you will feel pretty shitty when you step off for a good
month-mainly tiredness and depression.  Check out the ‘Opiate Detox
Forum’
(can’t remember exact address so google it alone with the word ‘Loop’
(my
tag) and it should find it) for loadsa info on Sub WD although I think
they
make too much of a big deal about it there n scare people.  I haven’t
had
to
come off mine yet so I don’t know.  I started on 12mg a day and have
found
it pretty easy to get down to 4mg.
(Tapering is easily done though-just grind your 8mg up and divide it
into
however many piles you need.)

Doctors also don’t realise that high doses are not necessary with
Sub-like
in excess of 16mg.  Too much Sub will give you nausea and headaches n
ignorant Dr’s will just tell you to take more but that’s actually making
it
WORSE!  Even doses of 8mg have made a few people feel rough coz they
only
had little habits.  You hear of people with huge scripts wondering why
they’re feeling rough!  It doesn’t work like normal drugs-more=better
effect.

I did find that when I’m on less than 8mg I still feel H if I shoot up
so
if
you need that blocking effect bear this in mind.  Sub is still better
than

shooting up H any day (or so I strictly tell myself ;-))

Oh and Jim-be prepared for the gross taste-I hate it!  It is ok to have
a
drink straight after coz I do to get rid of the taste.  Or a sweet to
suck.
In fact when it dissolves you’re left with all this gross ‘residue’ in
your
mouth and it seems to be ok to spit this out.  The active meds will have
dissolved under your tongue-don’t worry.  Some people say it the goo
makes
them feel nauseous if they swallow it and swear by spitting it out.
Personally, I just swallow the stuff n I’m ok!

Hope something helps.  Even if it just raises some questions you’d like
to
ask your Doc!
lol Hannah

Lol Hannah

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 2:32 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the
route
you take it

Just to let you know Jim, (see bottom of this note for more info on
Bup),
My name is Preston Peet, first name being Preston. While I might
answer
to Peet, it’s not what I call myself, so you don’t have to be formal
and
use
my last name- unless you put a big Mr. in front of it. Then I might
think
yer talking to my dad though, so Preston will work just fine. Thank
you.
;-)))
Yer right too that methadone, from my own personal experienc, is
much
nastier to kick.
The pain doc I see shares office space with another pain doc, who
5
years ago, almost 6 now, first saw me for pain upon recommendation of
my
regular doc. I being the honest addict I am, and not wanting to be
given
any
drug that might counterdict the methadone, told him I was then on
methadone.
He wound up giving me three injections, one every other week, directly
into
my spine with valium being the only drug given to relax me prior to
injecting me, and a topical (it felt like) shot to numb the skin above
my
spine (but not my spine itself- as was obvious when the needle went
in-
Ouch!). These injections did nothing for the relentless pain, but
after
3,
the max he was willing to give me with no visible results, he told me
there
wasn’t anything else he could do for me, that I should “eat better and
gain
weight” as that would help build muscle and in turn that’d help me
support
my spine better. He was completely unwilling to prescribe anything for
the
pain, the reason I initially went to see him.
So I spent the next nearly 6 years not going to see them at the
pain
clinic but going to see my own doc instead. But last year it was
getting
really ridiculous, in that I was going through my pain meds way too
fast
and
they still weren’t helping enough. My doc kept saying, “you’ve got to
go
to
the specialist because the DEA will flag me if I up your dose any
higher.”
So I did, after running out of my month’s supply in less than 2
weeks.
Luckily for me, when I went in I happened to see the other doc, the
one
I’ve
now been seeing for a little over a year, who treated my pain
seriously
and
gave me what I needed and pays close attention to me and my
complaints.
But a few months ago, I went in a couple days early when my own
pain
doc
wasn’t in, and saw one of the intern types, who after writing out my
script
for the one drug realized that the coupons I’d been getting for Avinza
weren’t being accepted any longer, said, “let me get Dr. Thomas, and
maybe
he’ll be able to suggest something else.” Right after she walked out I
though, “oh shit, he’s the one who didn’t help me last time.”
Sure enough, the first thing this bozo did when walking in was
tell
me
he would have treated me in different fashion than my own pain doc
was,
then
asked me, “are you selling your pills? No offense but are you?”
Understanding the question but still offended due to the silliness
of
my
selling any of my much needed and still not quite enough drugs, I said
no.
He then said he was going to have to talk to my doc and see about
putting me on something else, as he reached into the shelf being him
to
pull
out the previously mentioned flier for bup.
I had already told this guy I had Hep C. but he was a bozo and
pain
no
attention to what I told him.
(He also took back the script the intern had already written and
wrote
one for just 6 days rather than the 3 weeks I usually got, forcing me
to
come back in less than a week and pay another $80 bucks for a simply
office
visit- that doesn’t even begin to cover the cost of scripts.)
So after I left and got home I pulled out the flier for bup/naloxone,
and
read it.
The first thing it says it that Bup is a narcotic and can be
diverted
to
street sales, which puzzled the shit outta me as that was his biggest
concern supposedly- why would he change my script due to a stated fear
I
could be selling my drugs to another script I could sell just as
easily?
Then I read the whole page where it says that Bup does holy hell
to
a
liver and that if on Bup we should pay attention to all sorts of
symptoms
that show it’s causing yet more damage to a damaged liver.
Why the hell would he feel the need to take me off a drug that I
know
is
helping me to put me on another that the only selling point to is that
it
is
a drug to help withdrawals while treatig pain too? Seems a bit odd to
me
that he is pushing a drug that is just as addictive and a LOT worse
for
my
body. Are doctors, or this doctor anyway, so frightened by DrugWar
propaganda and scare tactics that he/they really feel that Bup is
“better”
than a more natural, less toxic on the liver opiate based medication?
Yes, it seem so if my own experiences are any indication.
Anyway, Bup doesn’t seem all that safe either nor well tested, as
Dr.
Andrew Byrne in Australia pointed out recently:

It is worrying that the
American FDA has approved the marketing of the combination product
(bup
and
naltrexone, and naloxone) even
before research of this nature had been established. One wonders if
they
have different standards for drugs used in the treatment of
addiction.<

This is clipped from the comments about Bup you can find just below
here.
So I hope this give syou some more idea of Bup and the mentality
pushing
this stuff. I think it goes hand in hand with the same mentality that
pushed
methadone as opposed to simply PRESCRIBING HEROIN, a much less toxic,
more
effective, all around better drug.
But then, that would not only be more humane, it would make sense,
and
we can’t have that now can we? I mean, we are waging a war on some
drugs
and
users, right? Soooo.
Peace,
Preston

Pharmacokinetics of high-dose buprenorphine following single
administration of sublingual tablet formulations in opioid naïve
healthy
male volunteers under a naltrexone block. McAleer SD, Mills RJ, Polack
T, Hussain T, Rolan PE, Gibbs AD, Mullins FGP, Hussein Z. Drug Alc
Depend (2003) 72; 1:75-83

Dear Colleagues,
At last we have some real data on buprenorphine half lives, absorption
and effects from healthy volunteer studies. These researchers, who
were
working for the manufacturers, have taken 35 healthy males and given
substantial doses of buprenorphine after 50 -150mg naltrexone ‘block’.
They then measured clinical and blood parameters at regular intervals
for up to 3 days in an in-patient setting. Techniques for measuring
blood levels of buprenorphine are still being developed and are not
generally available in clinical practice. This makes patient history
and
clinical observation even more important than otherwise. A liquid
chromatographic tandem mass spectrometric (LC-MS/MS) assay was
developed
by these researchers and it was validated for the measurement of
buprenorphine and nor-buprenorphine, its metabolite, in blood.

Mean half life was found to be 26 hours with a wide range from 9 to
69.
Interestingly, these authors have confirmed some observations in
clinical practice including highly variable half lives and the
‘bi-exponential’ decay sometimes reported by patients. Some had a
‘secondary peak’ at about 10 hours from dosing. The authors report
that
some had higher levels following meals and propose ‘entero-hepatic
recirculation’ in some cases. Maximum or ‘peak’ levels occurred
between
30 minutes and 3 hours.

The addition of naloxone in the sublingual preparation made no
difference to blood levels. The time taken for the tablets to dissolve
were similar for all dose levels from 2 to 16mg (range 6-12 min) and
were no different for the combination product. It is worrying that the
American FDA has approved the marketing of the combination product
even
before research of this nature had been established. One wonders if
they
have different standards for drugs used in the treatment of addiction.

A weakness of the study was that it did not examine levels in on-going
treatment, but just individual single doses. Thus is it more relevant
to
the initiation period, which is still a major problem for some
patients.
There were no opioid effects using the naltrexone block at between 50
and 150mg doses prior to opioid administration.

comments by Andrew Byrne ..

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dr Andrew Byrne,
Medical Practitioner, Dependency Medicine,
75 Redfern Street, Redfern,
New South Wales, 2016, Australia
Email – ajbyrneATozemail.com.au
Tel (61 – 2) 9319 5524 Fax 9318 0631
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 8:57 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the
route
you take it

Hi Peet,

Thanks Peet, very much.  I don’t believe everything I read so I like
to
get
people’s opinions or learn from their experiences.  That’s what I was
trying
to find out.  I know that you know back in the 60’s methadone was
suppose
to
be eaiser to kick than H.  There is not one person I know who
believes,
that
including many docs.

I see the suboxone doc this Wed. and I will see how things go and take
it
from there.  At least now I have something to think about or ask him.
BTW,
I asked at the drugstore how much the Subutex pills are and they are $
6
each for the 8 mg.  Thanks for your imput, it is appreciated.

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Jim Hadey >What I want to know if it is in Subutex, <

According to the flier I have in my hands right now from the company,
no
it
is not in Subutex- that contains “only the medicine burprenorphine”
while
Suboxone contines both bup and naloxone. Both Subutex and Suboxone can
cause
fairly severe side effects if the flier is any indication.
And, it IS NOT GOOD TO TAKE IF YOU HAVE HEP C!!!!!
Peace,
Preston

.
—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 2:50 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the
route
you take it

Hi all,

I know the difference between Naloxone and Naltrexone, Narcan
(Naloxone)
is
shorter acting and is shot up. What I want to know if you take it via
mouth
will it make you sick?

They put it i! t Talwin (Narcon or Naloxone) to stop people from
shooting
it
up. What I want to know if it is in Subutex, which it is, will it also
make you sick by taking it via mouth or under the tongue? It is not
suppose
to. But I would like to be sure. Like did bupe or Subutex cause anyone
to
go into w/d by placing it under the tongue? I probably will not use
smack
for the next few days but am taking quite a bit of Lortab.

Thanks for any help,

– JIM

Preston Peet wrote:
Naloxone is administered intravenously and lasts for approximately 20
minutes.<

This is Narcan, right, this Naloxone?

No matter what name they use it is still some bad shit for addicts!<
Other than for the fa ct it can and has saved a number of lives, I
agree
in
that Narcan is not a pleasent drug to be given as an opiate addict, or
so
I’ve been lead to believe from seeing it given right in front of me- a
few
here may even be able! to give us even more first hand accounts that I
have
in the following. I’ve probably posted this before, but so what? There
are
a
few newish subscribers who may not have seen this, so I post it again,
at
risk of repeating myself and in hopes of entertaining some of you:
snip-
“What’s that, Narcan?” Thomas asks.
“That’s right,” says the paramedic. “He’s a lucky guy.” He shoots the
stuff
into Void’s upper arm. “Thirty seconds, just wait. This stuff is
magic.”
Thomas doesn’t think Void is going to feel so lucky when he wakes up.
Yeah,
he’s alive, but he’d just gotten straight. Now he’s going to be really
sick.
<
end snip-
Full story:
http://www.drugwar.com/PrestonPeetIndex.shtm
Narcan-
Bringing the Dead Back to Life
chapter 20 of “Something in the Way”
copyright 2001
by Preston Peet

posted Halloween, 2002
“Why is it whenever I’m broke they’re everywhere, but when I’ve got
cash,
I
can’t find anyone?”
“Yeah wel! l, at least you’ve got money. All I got are these two lousy
videos.
Oh, hold on a second.”
Thomas watches his friend Void run over to a couple of fences standing
by
St. Marks, and 2nd Ave., and try to sell them the videotapes, to no
avail.
Thomas was exiting a building at the corner of Lafayette and Houston
Streets
after selling some freshly-stolen Shitake mushrooms as Magic
mushrooms,
calling them “Colorado Gold Tops.” Some guys he’d approached on their
way
to
a club near Fourteenth St. the night before had given him a business
card
with their work number on it, telling him to call after Thomas had
mentioned
he could get really good mushrooms. As soon as he’d woken up this
morning,
he’d run to a phone and given them a call. Setting up the deal had
been
little trouble. Thomas plays to his victims’ greed, offering them
deals
better than any they’ll know of anywhere, yet not so much better that
the
vics get suspicious. He depends on this kind ! of scam for almost his
entire
livelihood. From ! necessity he’s gotten very good at separating
people
from
their money.
Stepping out the office building’s front door, flush with the feeling
of
success and a good sum of cash, Thomas’ mind was focused on going to
score.
He’d not seen Void standing there until he’d literally bumped into
him.
“Hey, what’s up Void? ‘Scuse me, I’m on a mission. Didn’t see you.”
Void
seemed to be just standing there. “What are you doing, spanging?”
“Oh no, I need to sell these movies.” Void held out the films, still
in
their new, shrink-wrapped boxes. “I’m really sick. I need to get
straight,
bad. I’m gonna come with you, ’cause hopefully by the time you score,
I’ll
have sold these.”
Thomas hadn’t been so sure of that, and he’s still not too sure, but
he
likes Void. Thomas decides that he’ll help get him straight if Void
can’t
sell the videos. If it comes to that. Thomas doesn’t say this aloud,
as
there’s the c! hance Void’ll pull it off, but won’t try as hard if he
thinks
he’s already covered.
Everyone on the street has their own scam, their own game they play to
get
what they need. It’s deadly real to the people playing, never feeling
much
like a game to Thomas anymore. He just happens to make a bit more
money
than
most with his particular scam, enabling him to build a bigger habit.
Void rejoins him. They continue walking down St. Marks to Tompkins
Sq.,
heading through to the opposite side of the park. Unbelievably, none
of
the
spots they pass are open. There’s nobody out doing any selling. Void
doesn’t
mind as he hasn’t sold the tapes yet, but Thomas is pissed. There’d
been
dealers out and about not one hour before as he’d been on his way to
sell
the shrooms. Now there’s no one.
“What about 13th Street? Rush?” Void asks. “How’s that been?”
“It hasn’t been so good the last few days, garbage really.” Thomas
answers.
“I don’t know if they’re even! open yet. It’s only what, Two o’clock,
right?”
Thomas doesn’t want to walk over to 13th Street. Walking is beginning
to
be
a chore. He can feel the lack of dope in him, draining his energy
reserves.
Void is even worse off, but therefore more willing to put the effort
into
going the four blocks out of the way. There’s nothing for it except to
go
along, and Thomas does, grudgingly.
They head straight up 10th St. to 1st Ave., and turn right. At 12th,
one
block before they reach the spot, Void unloads the two tapes to
someone
at
an incense table, making himself the ten bucks he needs for a bag.
Thomas
is
amazed. He hadn’t expected Void to do it, not after failing the entire
walk.
“Void, why don’t you go get the dope while I go around the block and
score
some coke? We’ll meet at the Polish restaurant, Christine’s, between
12th
and 13th Streets.”
“Sure, how many do you want?”
“Get me four,” Thomas says handing him forty dollars. “Hurry
up.”Normally
he
wouldn’t trust someone with his cash, having been burned a
number of times before, but he knows Void pretty well. The two of them
are
as close to being friends as people can get and still be strung out,
and
besides, if Void knows he’s going to get some coke, he’ll be there.
He’s
a
fiend who would rather get both.
Like his now-dead friend Dan had been once, Void is another rare find.
The coke store Thomas goes to is on 12th St., just across Ave. A. It
only
takes him 5 minutes to get there, conduct his business, and get back
to
Christine’s. He arrives almost the same moment as Void, and they walk
in
together.
Neither of them look too respectable. The restaurant staff eye them
both
with suspicion and just a bit of revulsion, but no one stops them from
taking a seat at a table in the dining area.
“Let me go first, man,” Void says as soon as they are seated. “I’m
really
sick. I’m going to throw up right here if I don’t do a shot soon.! ”
It’s not a lot different for Thomas, who can feel his stomach
clenching
and
bubbling in anticipation. But he knows Void is in far worse shape so
agrees
to wait at the table for Void to go to the toilet first. One of them
has
to
wait with all their bags while the other gets straight.
“Yeah, all right already, just go.”
“The guy said this is a new batch, that it’s very good, and strong,”
Void
says under his breath.
“Yeah, they always say that it’s the best. You know that. It’d be nice
though if it’s better than what they’ve had recently, that’s for
sure.”
Thomas isn’t too hopeful. As long as it gets him straight, he doesn’t
much
care. “Hurry up. Don’t take forever, ’cause I want to go too.”
“Can I have some coke for my shot?” Void asks, still not moving.
“Hell no. I’ll give you some later, but if you do it now, I’ll be out
here
an hour waiting for you. Fuck that.” There’s no anger in his voice,
it’s
just that Thomas knows how it is on coke sometimes. “I promise, I’ll
give
you some a little later. Now go, hurry up.”
Void goes to the bathroom, leaving Thomas at the table. A waitress
comes
over right after Void walks away, so to keep the place happy, and to
feed
the both of them a little something, Thomas orders two soups and
coffees.
By
the time Void comes back to the table, Thomas is almost finished with
his
soup and very impatient.
“About fucking time, Void.” Thomas snarls as Void tries to pull out a
chair.
He misjudges the distance, pulls it too far, then sits in such a way
as
to
send both it and himself crashing to the floor.
Thomas can’t help it, and laughs out loud. Still chuckling, he bends
down
and gives Void a hand up. As he lifts, he notices Void is not
responding
well, that his eyes are way fucked up, glassy and very pinned.
“Hey, you’re not going to nod here at the table and get us thrown out,
are
you?” He watches Void struggling to keep his eyes open. “You ok?”
“Oh, come on man, you know me, I’m good. Go ahead.” Void slurs out as
he
picks up his coffee, sloshing a third of it onto the table.
Thomas can’t wait any longer. He has to trust that Void will be OK,
and
goes
to take his turn. The toilet stalls are well used by regular customers
of
the dope spot around the corner. Thomas is frequently one of those. He
knows
the restaurant well, knows he should have time to relax and go slow
without
having a manager in too quickly. He gets out his stuff and mixes up a
shot
in short order. Right as he has the vein, just about to boot, there
comes
a
firm knock on the door of the stall, then an older man’s heavily
accented
voice.
“Hey! That your friend at the table? He dead! We call Police, they
coming
now. You hurry!”
Thomas pushes in the shot before he realizes what the old guy said.
Then
as
the drugs take hold the old guy’s words sink in, giving Thomas the
simultaneous rush of the incredibly! strong drugs and the disbelief
and
shock
at what’s just been said to him through the closed toilet stall door.
The
coke rush barely tops the dope. The dealer was telling Void the truth,
because the dope feels stronger than any he’s yet found in NYC. Fast
as
he
can in the shape he’s in, he puts everything away and cleans himself
up.
He
wants to be out of the toilet before the cops arrive, not wanting any
more
attention than he’s already going to have with a dead, overdosed
friend
on
the floor. That’s already more than he wants.
He gets to the table as quickly as he can. Sure enough, Void is on the
floor, half under the table, not moving. Thomas crouches down and
shakes
him. “Wake the hell up man, the cops are coming.” This has absolutely
no
effect, so he tries smacking him on the cheeks, one after the other.
Again
there’s nothing. Void’s tattooed face and lips are by now turning a
weirder
shade of blue, and Thomas can’t find any sign of breath! ing or a
pulse.
He
pushes the table back, pulls Void’s body so he’s lying stretched out
on
his
back, and considers giving him mouth to mouth resuscitation or even
CPR.
Luckily he doesn’t have to as he’s abruptly pushed aside by two eager
paramedics, all bustle and business.
“Overdose,” says the one who pushed Thomas. “What’d he take?”
“He told me he was sick, and was going to score a bag. I think he only
did
one. That’s all the money he had, ten bucks.” Thomas is thinking that
when
the coke he himself shot in that speedball wears off, he’s also going
to
be
very stoned, and doesn’t want to be dealing with the police. They’d
arrived
with the paramedics, and now they start to question him.
“Where’d he get it? You got any yourself, kid?” One bored cop asks.
“I don’t know where he got it, and no, I don’t.” Thomas sees no need
for
complete honesty here.
Down on the floor the paramedics aren’t having any more luck than had
Thomas
in getting Void! to respond. One of them reaches into the box of
medical
supplies he’d brought in, and starts rummaging around.
“His girlfriend lives right across the street. I’m going to run see if
she’s
there, because I’m not going to the hospital with him. She should know
anyway.” The cops agree it’s a good idea, so Thomas runs to her
apartment.
Finding her home, he quickly convinces her to come with him,
explaining
along the way what’s going on.
By the time they get back to the restaurant, the paramedic is holding
a
loaded hypodermic in his hand, preparing to administer it to Void.
“What’s that, Narcan?” Thomas asks.
“That’s right,” says the paramedic. “He’s a lucky guy.” He shoots the
stuff
into Void’s upper arm. “Thirty seconds, just wait. This stuff is
magic.”
Thomas doesn’t think Void is going to feel so lucky when he wakes up.
Yeah,
he’s alive, but he’d just gotten straight. Now he’s going to be really
sick.
Narcan completely clears the system! of any vestige of the drug and
it’s
effects, at least temporarily, leaving the patient agonizingly ill.
After exactly thirty seconds, Void’s eyes shoot open. The first words
out
of
his mouth are, “I’m all right, I’m all right.” He’s not even aware
he’s
been
dead, at least not immediately, but confusion is evident on his face.
It’s
obvious something is wrong. He looks up at the paramedics and cops.
“Oh
shit.”
“Just lie there for a minute, kid. Relax.” One of the paramedics tells
Void,
who’s struggling to get to his feet. “Give it a minute, you just had a
close
call.”
“So now what?” Thomas interrupts one of the cops, who’s making
disparaging
remarks about junkies and losers to his partner. “Is he going to be
OK?”
“Yeah, he’ll be fine. They’ve got to take him in to the hospital
’cause
they
gave him a shot. It’s the law. They work on you, you ride with them.”
The
cop doesn’t look at Thomas, so Thomas doesn’t say anything else.
Void is helpe! d out of the door by the paramedics. Void’s girlfriend
goes
with him. Thomas can hear her soothing Void, giving comfort, and
almost
feel
s a pang of jealousy. He can’t imagine his girlfiend acting thus for
him.
The cops are speaking with the restaurant staff, writing in their
little
black books and ignoring him, so Thomas decides it’s definitely time
for
him
to go.
No one pays him any mind as he picks up his bag and coat, and walks
out
the
front door onto 1st Ave.
“Damn I’m glad I’m not Void right now,” he thinks, watching the
ambulance
drive away. Narcan does not look like a fun experience. If Void had
been
in
a park somewhere, he wouldn’t have had to go through that. Most
probably
he
would have simply slept through the dope, then woken up tomorrow sick,
ready
to start again. Which is of course exactly what’s going to happen.
Thomas
knows he’ll bump into Void again soon, sick as hell out looking for
drugs.
This close call won’t change a thi! ng.
It doesn’t occur to Thomas how close he himself came to lying on the
floor
being treated by the paramedics.
Thomas shakes his head, then heads to Tompkins Square to do some more
of
his
own stuff, stopping along the way to tell another couple of fiends he
knows
that “Rush is damned good today.”

Tompkins Sq. Park
Peace all,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 11:22 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route
you
take it

Jim, I did some research and my findings are as follows…
What is the difference between naltrexone and naloxone?
Functionally, they are the same type of drug. They compete with heroin
at
the receptor level and block the effect of heroin. Naloxone is
administered
intravenously and lasts for approximately 20 minutes. Naltrexone is
administered orally (pill form) and can last for 1 to 2 days.
No matter what name they use it is still some bad shit for addicts!
They are now using Naltrexone in alcoholism treatment!
Callie

ATTACHMENT part 2 image/jpeg name=shooter2.jpg

ATTACHMENT part 3 image/jpeg name=tompkinstable2.JPG

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From: trtye <trtye@gci.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route you take it
Date: July 25, 2004 at 7:26:59 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Correcting my previous post:
the lyric is:
“I was standing in line with Mr. Jimmy”

Anybody else ever hear what they were referring to?
T

—– Original Message —–
From: “trtye” <trtye@gci.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2004 3:15 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route
you take it

Hannah:
I could swear that somewhere I read that Bupe had been a big drug problem
in
England back in the 60’s and 70’s. And that in the Stones’ “YOU CAN’T
ALWAYS
GET WHAT YOU WANT”, that the line “Went down to see Mr. Jimmy” was a
reference to buprenorphine (a nickname, like horse for H). Have you ever
heard this? Thanks, Terrell

—– Original Message —–
From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2004 3:04 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route
you take it

I’ve heard of loadsa Doctors who don’t know what they’re talking about
when
it comes to Sub!  My Doc here in the UK still maintains that its not
addictive even though I’ve heard many personal accounts that beg to
differ.
It seems you will feel pretty shitty when you step off for a good
month-mainly tiredness and depression.  Check out the ‘Opiate Detox
Forum’
(can’t remember exact address so google it alone with the word ‘Loop’
(my
tag) and it should find it) for loadsa info on Sub WD although I think
they
make too much of a big deal about it there n scare people.  I haven’t
had
to
come off mine yet so I don’t know.  I started on 12mg a day and have
found
it pretty easy to get down to 4mg.
(Tapering is easily done though-just grind your 8mg up and divide it
into
however many piles you need.)

Doctors also don’t realise that high doses are not necessary with
Sub-like
in excess of 16mg.  Too much Sub will give you nausea and headaches n
ignorant Dr’s will just tell you to take more but that’s actually making
it
WORSE!  Even doses of 8mg have made a few people feel rough coz they
only
had little habits.  You hear of people with huge scripts wondering why
they’re feeling rough!  It doesn’t work like normal drugs-more=better
effect.

I did find that when I’m on less than 8mg I still feel H if I shoot up
so
if
you need that blocking effect bear this in mind.  Sub is still better
than

shooting up H any day (or so I strictly tell myself ;-))

Oh and Jim-be prepared for the gross taste-I hate it!  It is ok to have
a
drink straight after coz I do to get rid of the taste.  Or a sweet to
suck.
In fact when it dissolves you’re left with all this gross ‘residue’ in
your
mouth and it seems to be ok to spit this out.  The active meds will have
dissolved under your tongue-don’t worry.  Some people say it the goo
makes
them feel nauseous if they swallow it and swear by spitting it out.
Personally, I just swallow the stuff n I’m ok!

Hope something helps.  Even if it just raises some questions you’d like
to
ask your Doc!
lol Hannah

Lol Hannah

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From: trtye <trtye@gci.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route you take it
Date: July 25, 2004 at 7:15:30 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hannah:
I could swear that somewhere I read that Bupe had been a big drug problem in
England back in the 60’s and 70’s. And that in the Stones’ “YOU CAN’T ALWAYS
GET WHAT YOU WANT”, that the line “Went down to see Mr. Jimmy” was a
reference to buprenorphine (a nickname, like horse for H). Have you ever
heard this? Thanks, Terrell

—– Original Message —–
From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2004 3:04 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route
you take it

I’ve heard of loadsa Doctors who don’t know what they’re talking about
when
it comes to Sub!  My Doc here in the UK still maintains that its not
addictive even though I’ve heard many personal accounts that beg to
differ.
It seems you will feel pretty shitty when you step off for a good
month-mainly tiredness and depression.  Check out the ‘Opiate Detox Forum’
(can’t remember exact address so google it alone with the word ‘Loop’ (my
tag) and it should find it) for loadsa info on Sub WD although I think
they
make too much of a big deal about it there n scare people.  I haven’t had
to
come off mine yet so I don’t know.  I started on 12mg a day and have found
it pretty easy to get down to 4mg.
(Tapering is easily done though-just grind your 8mg up and divide it into
however many piles you need.)

Doctors also don’t realise that high doses are not necessary with Sub-like
in excess of 16mg.  Too much Sub will give you nausea and headaches n
ignorant Dr’s will just tell you to take more but that’s actually making
it
WORSE!  Even doses of 8mg have made a few people feel rough coz they only
had little habits.  You hear of people with huge scripts wondering why
they’re feeling rough!  It doesn’t work like normal drugs-more=better
effect.

I did find that when I’m on less than 8mg I still feel H if I shoot up so
if
you need that blocking effect bear this in mind.  Sub is still better than

shooting up H any day (or so I strictly tell myself ;-))

Oh and Jim-be prepared for the gross taste-I hate it!  It is ok to have a
drink straight after coz I do to get rid of the taste.  Or a sweet to
suck.
In fact when it dissolves you’re left with all this gross ‘residue’ in
your
mouth and it seems to be ok to spit this out.  The active meds will have
dissolved under your tongue-don’t worry.  Some people say it the goo makes
them feel nauseous if they swallow it and swear by spitting it out.
Personally, I just swallow the stuff n I’m ok!

Hope something helps.  Even if it just raises some questions you’d like to
ask your Doc!
lol Hannah

Lol Hannah

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 2:32 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route
you take it

Just to let you know Jim, (see bottom of this note for more info on
Bup),
My name is Preston Peet, first name being Preston. While I might
answer
to Peet, it’s not what I call myself, so you don’t have to be formal and
use
my last name- unless you put a big Mr. in front of it. Then I might
think
yer talking to my dad though, so Preston will work just fine. Thank you.
;-)))
Yer right too that methadone, from my own personal experienc, is
much
nastier to kick.
The pain doc I see shares office space with another pain doc, who 5
years ago, almost 6 now, first saw me for pain upon recommendation of my
regular doc. I being the honest addict I am, and not wanting to be given
any
drug that might counterdict the methadone, told him I was then on
methadone.
He wound up giving me three injections, one every other week, directly
into
my spine with valium being the only drug given to relax me prior to
injecting me, and a topical (it felt like) shot to numb the skin above
my
spine (but not my spine itself- as was obvious when the needle went in-
Ouch!). These injections did nothing for the relentless pain, but after
3,
the max he was willing to give me with no visible results, he told me
there
wasn’t anything else he could do for me, that I should “eat better and
gain
weight” as that would help build muscle and in turn that’d help me
support
my spine better. He was completely unwilling to prescribe anything for
the
pain, the reason I initially went to see him.
So I spent the next nearly 6 years not going to see them at the pain
clinic but going to see my own doc instead. But last year it was getting
really ridiculous, in that I was going through my pain meds way too fast
and
they still weren’t helping enough. My doc kept saying, “you’ve got to go
to
the specialist because the DEA will flag me if I up your dose any
higher.”
So I did, after running out of my month’s supply in less than 2
weeks.
Luckily for me, when I went in I happened to see the other doc, the one
I’ve
now been seeing for a little over a year, who treated my pain seriously
and
gave me what I needed and pays close attention to me and my complaints.
But a few months ago, I went in a couple days early when my own pain
doc
wasn’t in, and saw one of the intern types, who after writing out my
script
for the one drug realized that the coupons I’d been getting for Avinza
weren’t being accepted any longer, said, “let me get Dr. Thomas, and
maybe
he’ll be able to suggest something else.” Right after she walked out I
though, “oh shit, he’s the one who didn’t help me last time.”
Sure enough, the first thing this bozo did when walking in was tell
me
he would have treated me in different fashion than my own pain doc was,
then
asked me, “are you selling your pills? No offense but are you?”
Understanding the question but still offended due to the silliness
of
my
selling any of my much needed and still not quite enough drugs, I said
no.
He then said he was going to have to talk to my doc and see about
putting me on something else, as he reached into the shelf being him to
pull
out the previously mentioned flier for bup.
I had already told this guy I had Hep C. but he was a bozo and pain
no
attention to what I told him.
(He also took back the script the intern had already written and
wrote
one for just 6 days rather than the 3 weeks I usually got, forcing me to
come back in less than a week and pay another $80 bucks for a simply
office
visit- that doesn’t even begin to cover the cost of scripts.)
So after I left and got home I pulled out the flier for bup/naloxone,
and
read it.
The first thing it says it that Bup is a narcotic and can be
diverted
to
street sales, which puzzled the shit outta me as that was his biggest
concern supposedly- why would he change my script due to a stated fear I
could be selling my drugs to another script I could sell just as easily?
Then I read the whole page where it says that Bup does holy hell to
a
liver and that if on Bup we should pay attention to all sorts of
symptoms
that show it’s causing yet more damage to a damaged liver.
Why the hell would he feel the need to take me off a drug that I
know
is
helping me to put me on another that the only selling point to is that
it
is
a drug to help withdrawals while treatig pain too? Seems a bit odd to me
that he is pushing a drug that is just as addictive and a LOT worse for
my
body. Are doctors, or this doctor anyway, so frightened by DrugWar
propaganda and scare tactics that he/they really feel that Bup is
“better”
than a more natural, less toxic on the liver opiate based medication?
Yes, it seem so if my own experiences are any indication.
Anyway, Bup doesn’t seem all that safe either nor well tested, as
Dr.
Andrew Byrne in Australia pointed out recently:

It is worrying that the
American FDA has approved the marketing of the combination product (bup
and
naltrexone, and naloxone) even
before research of this nature had been established. One wonders if they
have different standards for drugs used in the treatment of addiction.<

This is clipped from the comments about Bup you can find just below
here.
So I hope this give syou some more idea of Bup and the mentality
pushing
this stuff. I think it goes hand in hand with the same mentality that
pushed
methadone as opposed to simply PRESCRIBING HEROIN, a much less toxic,
more
effective, all around better drug.
But then, that would not only be more humane, it would make sense,
and
we can’t have that now can we? I mean, we are waging a war on some drugs
and
users, right? Soooo.
Peace,
Preston

Pharmacokinetics of high-dose buprenorphine following single
administration of sublingual tablet formulations in opioid naïve healthy
male volunteers under a naltrexone block. McAleer SD, Mills RJ, Polack
T, Hussain T, Rolan PE, Gibbs AD, Mullins FGP, Hussein Z. Drug Alc
Depend (2003) 72; 1:75-83

Dear Colleagues,
At last we have some real data on buprenorphine half lives, absorption
and effects from healthy volunteer studies. These researchers, who were
working for the manufacturers, have taken 35 healthy males and given
substantial doses of buprenorphine after 50 -150mg naltrexone ‘block’.
They then measured clinical and blood parameters at regular intervals
for up to 3 days in an in-patient setting. Techniques for measuring
blood levels of buprenorphine are still being developed and are not
generally available in clinical practice. This makes patient history and
clinical observation even more important than otherwise. A liquid
chromatographic tandem mass spectrometric (LC-MS/MS) assay was developed
by these researchers and it was validated for the measurement of
buprenorphine and nor-buprenorphine, its metabolite, in blood.

Mean half life was found to be 26 hours with a wide range from 9 to 69.
Interestingly, these authors have confirmed some observations in
clinical practice including highly variable half lives and the
‘bi-exponential’ decay sometimes reported by patients. Some had a
‘secondary peak’ at about 10 hours from dosing. The authors report that
some had higher levels following meals and propose ‘entero-hepatic
recirculation’ in some cases. Maximum or ‘peak’ levels occurred between
30 minutes and 3 hours.

The addition of naloxone in the sublingual preparation made no
difference to blood levels. The time taken for the tablets to dissolve
were similar for all dose levels from 2 to 16mg (range 6-12 min) and
were no different for the combination product. It is worrying that the
American FDA has approved the marketing of the combination product even
before research of this nature had been established. One wonders if they
have different standards for drugs used in the treatment of addiction.

A weakness of the study was that it did not examine levels in on-going
treatment, but just individual single doses. Thus is it more relevant to
the initiation period, which is still a major problem for some patients.
There were no opioid effects using the naltrexone block at between 50
and 150mg doses prior to opioid administration.

comments by Andrew Byrne ..

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dr Andrew Byrne,
Medical Practitioner, Dependency Medicine,
75 Redfern Street, Redfern,
New South Wales, 2016, Australia
Email – ajbyrneATozemail.com.au
Tel (61 – 2) 9319 5524 Fax 9318 0631
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 8:57 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the
route
you take it

Hi Peet,

Thanks Peet, very much.  I don’t believe everything I read so I like to
get
people’s opinions or learn from their experiences.  That’s what I was
trying
to find out.  I know that you know back in the 60’s methadone was
suppose
to
be eaiser to kick than H.  There is not one person I know who believes,
that
including many docs.

I see the suboxone doc this Wed. and I will see how things go and take
it
from there.  At least now I have something to think about or ask him.
BTW,
I asked at the drugstore how much the Subutex pills are and they are $ 6
each for the 8 mg.  Thanks for your imput, it is appreciated.

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Jim Hadey >What I want to know if it is in Subutex, <

According to the flier I have in my hands right now from the company, no
it
is not in Subutex- that contains “only the medicine burprenorphine”
while
Suboxone contines both bup and naloxone. Both Subutex and Suboxone can
cause
fairly severe side effects if the flier is any indication.
And, it IS NOT GOOD TO TAKE IF YOU HAVE HEP C!!!!!
Peace,
Preston

.
—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 2:50 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the
route
you take it

Hi all,

I know the difference between Naloxone and Naltrexone, Narcan (Naloxone)
is
shorter acting and is shot up. What I want to know if you take it via
mouth
will it make you sick?

They put it i! t Talwin (Narcon or Naloxone) to stop people from
shooting
it
up. What I want to know if it is in Subutex, which it is, will it also
make you sick by taking it via mouth or under the tongue? It is not
suppose
to. But I would like to be sure. Like did bupe or Subutex cause anyone
to
go into w/d by placing it under the tongue? I probably will not use
smack
for the next few days but am taking quite a bit of Lortab.

Thanks for any help,

– JIM

Preston Peet wrote:
Naloxone is administered intravenously and lasts for approximately 20
minutes.<

This is Narcan, right, this Naloxone?

No matter what name they use it is still some bad shit for addicts!<
Other than for the fa ct it can and has saved a number of lives, I agree
in
that Narcan is not a pleasent drug to be given as an opiate addict, or
so
I’ve been lead to believe from seeing it given right in front of me- a
few
here may even be able! to give us even more first hand accounts that I
have
in the following. I’ve probably posted this before, but so what? There
are
a
few newish subscribers who may not have seen this, so I post it again,
at
risk of repeating myself and in hopes of entertaining some of you:
snip-
“What’s that, Narcan?” Thomas asks.
“That’s right,” says the paramedic. “He’s a lucky guy.” He shoots the
stuff
into Void’s upper arm. “Thirty seconds, just wait. This stuff is magic.”
Thomas doesn’t think Void is going to feel so lucky when he wakes up.
Yeah,
he’s alive, but he’d just gotten straight. Now he’s going to be really
sick.
<
end snip-
Full story:
http://www.drugwar.com/PrestonPeetIndex.shtm
Narcan-
Bringing the Dead Back to Life
chapter 20 of “Something in the Way”
copyright 2001
by Preston Peet

posted Halloween, 2002
“Why is it whenever I’m broke they’re everywhere, but when I’ve got
cash,
I
can’t find anyone?”
“Yeah wel! l, at least you’ve got money. All I got are these two lousy
videos.
Oh, hold on a second.”
Thomas watches his friend Void run over to a couple of fences standing
by
St. Marks, and 2nd Ave., and try to sell them the videotapes, to no
avail.
Thomas was exiting a building at the corner of Lafayette and Houston
Streets
after selling some freshly-stolen Shitake mushrooms as Magic mushrooms,
calling them “Colorado Gold Tops.” Some guys he’d approached on their
way
to
a club near Fourteenth St. the night before had given him a business
card
with their work number on it, telling him to call after Thomas had
mentioned
he could get really good mushrooms. As soon as he’d woken up this
morning,
he’d run to a phone and given them a call. Setting up the deal had been
little trouble. Thomas plays to his victims’ greed, offering them deals
better than any they’ll know of anywhere, yet not so much better that
the
vics get suspicious. He depends on this kind ! of scam for almost his
entire
livelihood. From ! necessity he’s gotten very good at separating people
from
their money.
Stepping out the office building’s front door, flush with the feeling of
success and a good sum of cash, Thomas’ mind was focused on going to
score.
He’d not seen Void standing there until he’d literally bumped into him.
“Hey, what’s up Void? ‘Scuse me, I’m on a mission. Didn’t see you.” Void
seemed to be just standing there. “What are you doing, spanging?”
“Oh no, I need to sell these movies.” Void held out the films, still in
their new, shrink-wrapped boxes. “I’m really sick. I need to get
straight,
bad. I’m gonna come with you, ’cause hopefully by the time you score,
I’ll
have sold these.”
Thomas hadn’t been so sure of that, and he’s still not too sure, but he
likes Void. Thomas decides that he’ll help get him straight if Void
can’t
sell the videos. If it comes to that. Thomas doesn’t say this aloud, as
there’s the c! hance Void’ll pull it off, but won’t try as hard if he
thinks
he’s already covered.
Everyone on the street has their own scam, their own game they play to
get
what they need. It’s deadly real to the people playing, never feeling
much
like a game to Thomas anymore. He just happens to make a bit more money
than
most with his particular scam, enabling him to build a bigger habit.
Void rejoins him. They continue walking down St. Marks to Tompkins Sq.,
heading through to the opposite side of the park. Unbelievably, none of
the
spots they pass are open. There’s nobody out doing any selling. Void
doesn’t
mind as he hasn’t sold the tapes yet, but Thomas is pissed. There’d been
dealers out and about not one hour before as he’d been on his way to
sell
the shrooms. Now there’s no one.
“What about 13th Street? Rush?” Void asks. “How’s that been?”
“It hasn’t been so good the last few days, garbage really.” Thomas
answers.
“I don’t know if they’re even! open yet. It’s only what, Two o’clock,
right?”
Thomas doesn’t want to walk over to 13th Street. Walking is beginning to
be
a chore. He can feel the lack of dope in him, draining his energy
reserves.
Void is even worse off, but therefore more willing to put the effort
into
going the four blocks out of the way. There’s nothing for it except to
go
along, and Thomas does, grudgingly.
They head straight up 10th St. to 1st Ave., and turn right. At 12th, one
block before they reach the spot, Void unloads the two tapes to someone
at
an incense table, making himself the ten bucks he needs for a bag.
Thomas
is
amazed. He hadn’t expected Void to do it, not after failing the entire
walk.
“Void, why don’t you go get the dope while I go around the block and
score
some coke? We’ll meet at the Polish restaurant, Christine’s, between
12th
and 13th Streets.”
“Sure, how many do you want?”
“Get me four,” Thomas says handing him forty dollars. “Hurry
up.”Normally
he
wouldn’t trust someone with his cash, having been burned a
number of times before, but he knows Void pretty well. The two of them
are
as close to being friends as people can get and still be strung out, and
besides, if Void knows he’s going to get some coke, he’ll be there. He’s
a
fiend who would rather get both.
Like his now-dead friend Dan had been once, Void is another rare find.
The coke store Thomas goes to is on 12th St., just across Ave. A. It
only
takes him 5 minutes to get there, conduct his business, and get back to
Christine’s. He arrives almost the same moment as Void, and they walk in
together.
Neither of them look too respectable. The restaurant staff eye them both
with suspicion and just a bit of revulsion, but no one stops them from
taking a seat at a table in the dining area.
“Let me go first, man,” Void says as soon as they are seated. “I’m
really
sick. I’m going to throw up right here if I don’t do a shot soon.! ”
It’s not a lot different for Thomas, who can feel his stomach clenching
and
bubbling in anticipation. But he knows Void is in far worse shape so
agrees
to wait at the table for Void to go to the toilet first. One of them has
to
wait with all their bags while the other gets straight.
“Yeah, all right already, just go.”
“The guy said this is a new batch, that it’s very good, and strong,”
Void
says under his breath.
“Yeah, they always say that it’s the best. You know that. It’d be nice
though if it’s better than what they’ve had recently, that’s for sure.”
Thomas isn’t too hopeful. As long as it gets him straight, he doesn’t
much
care. “Hurry up. Don’t take forever, ’cause I want to go too.”
“Can I have some coke for my shot?” Void asks, still not moving.
“Hell no. I’ll give you some later, but if you do it now, I’ll be out
here
an hour waiting for you. Fuck that.” There’s no anger in his voice, it’s
just that Thomas knows how it is on coke sometimes. “I promise, I’ll
give
you some a little later. Now go, hurry up.”
Void goes to the bathroom, leaving Thomas at the table. A waitress comes
over right after Void walks away, so to keep the place happy, and to
feed
the both of them a little something, Thomas orders two soups and
coffees.
By
the time Void comes back to the table, Thomas is almost finished with
his
soup and very impatient.
“About fucking time, Void.” Thomas snarls as Void tries to pull out a
chair.
He misjudges the distance, pulls it too far, then sits in such a way as
to
send both it and himself crashing to the floor.
Thomas can’t help it, and laughs out loud. Still chuckling, he bends
down
and gives Void a hand up. As he lifts, he notices Void is not responding
well, that his eyes are way fucked up, glassy and very pinned.
“Hey, you’re not going to nod here at the table and get us thrown out,
are
you?” He watches Void struggling to keep his eyes open. “You ok?”
“Oh, come on man, you know me, I’m good. Go ahead.” Void slurs out as he
picks up his coffee, sloshing a third of it onto the table.
Thomas can’t wait any longer. He has to trust that Void will be OK, and
goes
to take his turn. The toilet stalls are well used by regular customers
of
the dope spot around the corner. Thomas is frequently one of those. He
knows
the restaurant well, knows he should have time to relax and go slow
without
having a manager in too quickly. He gets out his stuff and mixes up a
shot
in short order. Right as he has the vein, just about to boot, there
comes
a
firm knock on the door of the stall, then an older man’s heavily
accented
voice.
“Hey! That your friend at the table? He dead! We call Police, they
coming
now. You hurry!”
Thomas pushes in the shot before he realizes what the old guy said. Then
as
the drugs take hold the old guy’s words sink in, giving Thomas the
simultaneous rush of the incredibly! strong drugs and the disbelief and
shock
at what’s just been said to him through the closed toilet stall door.
The
coke rush barely tops the dope. The dealer was telling Void the truth,
because the dope feels stronger than any he’s yet found in NYC. Fast as
he
can in the shape he’s in, he puts everything away and cleans himself up.
He
wants to be out of the toilet before the cops arrive, not wanting any
more
attention than he’s already going to have with a dead, overdosed friend
on
the floor. That’s already more than he wants.
He gets to the table as quickly as he can. Sure enough, Void is on the
floor, half under the table, not moving. Thomas crouches down and shakes
him. “Wake the hell up man, the cops are coming.” This has absolutely no
effect, so he tries smacking him on the cheeks, one after the other.
Again
there’s nothing. Void’s tattooed face and lips are by now turning a
weirder
shade of blue, and Thomas can’t find any sign of breath! ing or a pulse.
He
pushes the table back, pulls Void’s body so he’s lying stretched out on
his
back, and considers giving him mouth to mouth resuscitation or even CPR.
Luckily he doesn’t have to as he’s abruptly pushed aside by two eager
paramedics, all bustle and business.
“Overdose,” says the one who pushed Thomas. “What’d he take?”
“He told me he was sick, and was going to score a bag. I think he only
did
one. That’s all the money he had, ten bucks.” Thomas is thinking that
when
the coke he himself shot in that speedball wears off, he’s also going to
be
very stoned, and doesn’t want to be dealing with the police. They’d
arrived
with the paramedics, and now they start to question him.
“Where’d he get it? You got any yourself, kid?” One bored cop asks.
“I don’t know where he got it, and no, I don’t.” Thomas sees no need for
complete honesty here.
Down on the floor the paramedics aren’t having any more luck than had
Thomas
in getting Void! to respond. One of them reaches into the box of medical
supplies he’d brought in, and starts rummaging around.
“His girlfriend lives right across the street. I’m going to run see if
she’s
there, because I’m not going to the hospital with him. She should know
anyway.” The cops agree it’s a good idea, so Thomas runs to her
apartment.
Finding her home, he quickly convinces her to come with him, explaining
along the way what’s going on.
By the time they get back to the restaurant, the paramedic is holding a
loaded hypodermic in his hand, preparing to administer it to Void.
“What’s that, Narcan?” Thomas asks.
“That’s right,” says the paramedic. “He’s a lucky guy.” He shoots the
stuff
into Void’s upper arm. “Thirty seconds, just wait. This stuff is magic.”
Thomas doesn’t think Void is going to feel so lucky when he wakes up.
Yeah,
he’s alive, but he’d just gotten straight. Now he’s going to be really
sick.
Narcan completely clears the system! of any vestige of the drug and it’s
effects, at least temporarily, leaving the patient agonizingly ill.
After exactly thirty seconds, Void’s eyes shoot open. The first words
out
of
his mouth are, “I’m all right, I’m all right.” He’s not even aware he’s
been
dead, at least not immediately, but confusion is evident on his face.
It’s
obvious something is wrong. He looks up at the paramedics and cops. “Oh
shit.”
“Just lie there for a minute, kid. Relax.” One of the paramedics tells
Void,
who’s struggling to get to his feet. “Give it a minute, you just had a
close
call.”
“So now what?” Thomas interrupts one of the cops, who’s making
disparaging
remarks about junkies and losers to his partner. “Is he going to be OK?”
“Yeah, he’ll be fine. They’ve got to take him in to the hospital ’cause
they
gave him a shot. It’s the law. They work on you, you ride with them.”
The
cop doesn’t look at Thomas, so Thomas doesn’t say anything else.
Void is helpe! d out of the door by the paramedics. Void’s girlfriend
goes
with him. Thomas can hear her soothing Void, giving comfort, and almost
feel
s a pang of jealousy. He can’t imagine his girlfiend acting thus for
him.
The cops are speaking with the restaurant staff, writing in their little
black books and ignoring him, so Thomas decides it’s definitely time for
him
to go.
No one pays him any mind as he picks up his bag and coat, and walks out
the
front door onto 1st Ave.
“Damn I’m glad I’m not Void right now,” he thinks, watching the
ambulance
drive away. Narcan does not look like a fun experience. If Void had been
in
a park somewhere, he wouldn’t have had to go through that. Most probably
he
would have simply slept through the dope, then woken up tomorrow sick,
ready
to start again. Which is of course exactly what’s going to happen.
Thomas
knows he’ll bump into Void again soon, sick as hell out looking for
drugs.
This close call won’t change a thi! ng.
It doesn’t occur to Thomas how close he himself came to lying on the
floor
being treated by the paramedics.
Thomas shakes his head, then heads to Tompkins Square to do some more of
his
own stuff, stopping along the way to tell another couple of fiends he
knows
that “Rush is damned good today.”

Tompkins Sq. Park
Peace all,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 11:22 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route
you
take it

Jim, I did some research and my findings are as follows…
What is the difference between naltrexone and naloxone?
Functionally, they are the same type of drug. They compete with heroin
at
the receptor level and block the effect of heroin. Naloxone is
administered
intravenously and lasts for approximately 20 minutes. Naltrexone is
administered orally (pill form) and can last for 1 to 2 days.
No matter what name they use it is still some bad shit for addicts!
They are now using Naltrexone in alcoholism treatment!
Callie

ATTACHMENT part 2 image/jpeg name=shooter2.jpg

ATTACHMENT part 3 image/jpeg name=tompkinstable2.JPG

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From: trtye <trtye@gci.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route you take it
Date: July 25, 2004 at 7:03:26 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>>>
—– Original Message —–
From: Hannah Clay
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2004 2:21 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route you take it
am confused now though-I thought Suboxone contained Naltrexone not Naloxone but I’m always getting it confused!

Hannah:
I’m looking at the pharmacy handout that comes with each prescription. Suboxone contains Naloxone.
My doctor assured me over and over that the only way I’d get really sick would be from shooting it. If I wanted Subutex (100% buprenorphine) I’d have to go to his office daily to take it in front of them. He gave me a two week prescription to the Suboxone and also told me after this first script, about a place in Florida that you can order large(r) supplies at a greatly reduced price.

>>>It is a human rights issue really-if you’ve never hit-up drugs before then why should you be forced to take a drug that contains soemthing that is not necessary to you?

I haven’t mainlined drugs in over 20 years (well, regularly) but still have some track marks. I’ve sure never met a Doctor,  who knew for a fact that I was an addict, who’s just going to take my word that I was not going to misuse the drugs he/she was prescribing me, have you? (“How do you know when a junkie’s lying…..”)

>>>He says I can’t trust what people tell me and I become a self-righteous wanker thinking I know better than Doctors etc.  But lots of Docs don’t seem to know much about Sub.

I totally agree with you on that. What, they become experts with an 8 hour course? Right. You just have to kind of act like you believe that he /she knows best and then (if you don’t already know) do your own research.

Cheers, Terrell

From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route you take it
Date: July 25, 2004 at 7:04:53 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’ve heard of loadsa Doctors who don’t know what they’re talking about when
it comes to Sub!  My Doc here in the UK still maintains that its not
addictive even though I’ve heard many personal accounts that beg to differ.
It seems you will feel pretty shitty when you step off for a good
month-mainly tiredness and depression.  Check out the ‘Opiate Detox Forum’
(can’t remember exact address so google it alone with the word ‘Loop’ (my
tag) and it should find it) for loadsa info on Sub WD although I think they
make too much of a big deal about it there n scare people.  I haven’t had to
come off mine yet so I don’t know.  I started on 12mg a day and have found
it pretty easy to get down to 4mg.
(Tapering is easily done though-just grind your 8mg up and divide it into
however many piles you need.)

Doctors also don’t realise that high doses are not necessary with Sub-like
in excess of 16mg.  Too much Sub will give you nausea and headaches n
ignorant Dr’s will just tell you to take more but that’s actually making it
WORSE!  Even doses of 8mg have made a few people feel rough coz they only
had little habits.  You hear of people with huge scripts wondering why
they’re feeling rough!  It doesn’t work like normal drugs-more=better
effect.

I did find that when I’m on less than 8mg I still feel H if I shoot up so if
you need that blocking effect bear this in mind.  Sub is still better than
shooting up H any day (or so I strictly tell myself ;-))

Oh and Jim-be prepared for the gross taste-I hate it!  It is ok to have a
drink straight after coz I do to get rid of the taste.  Or a sweet to suck.
In fact when it dissolves you’re left with all this gross ‘residue’ in your
mouth and it seems to be ok to spit this out.  The active meds will have
dissolved under your tongue-don’t worry.  Some people say it the goo makes
them feel nauseous if they swallow it and swear by spitting it out.
Personally, I just swallow the stuff n I’m ok!

Hope something helps.  Even if it just raises some questions you’d like to
ask your Doc!
lol Hannah

Lol Hannah

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 2:32 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route
you take it

Just to let you know Jim, (see bottom of this note for more info on Bup),
My name is Preston Peet, first name being Preston. While I might
answer
to Peet, it’s not what I call myself, so you don’t have to be formal and
use
my last name- unless you put a big Mr. in front of it. Then I might think
yer talking to my dad though, so Preston will work just fine. Thank you.
;-)))
Yer right too that methadone, from my own personal experienc, is much
nastier to kick.
The pain doc I see shares office space with another pain doc, who 5
years ago, almost 6 now, first saw me for pain upon recommendation of my
regular doc. I being the honest addict I am, and not wanting to be given
any
drug that might counterdict the methadone, told him I was then on
methadone.
He wound up giving me three injections, one every other week, directly
into
my spine with valium being the only drug given to relax me prior to
injecting me, and a topical (it felt like) shot to numb the skin above my
spine (but not my spine itself- as was obvious when the needle went in-
Ouch!). These injections did nothing for the relentless pain, but after 3,
the max he was willing to give me with no visible results, he told me
there
wasn’t anything else he could do for me, that I should “eat better and
gain
weight” as that would help build muscle and in turn that’d help me support
my spine better. He was completely unwilling to prescribe anything for the
pain, the reason I initially went to see him.
So I spent the next nearly 6 years not going to see them at the pain
clinic but going to see my own doc instead. But last year it was getting
really ridiculous, in that I was going through my pain meds way too fast
and
they still weren’t helping enough. My doc kept saying, “you’ve got to go
to
the specialist because the DEA will flag me if I up your dose any higher.”
So I did, after running out of my month’s supply in less than 2 weeks.
Luckily for me, when I went in I happened to see the other doc, the one
I’ve
now been seeing for a little over a year, who treated my pain seriously
and
gave me what I needed and pays close attention to me and my complaints.
But a few months ago, I went in a couple days early when my own pain
doc
wasn’t in, and saw one of the intern types, who after writing out my
script
for the one drug realized that the coupons I’d been getting for Avinza
weren’t being accepted any longer, said, “let me get Dr. Thomas, and maybe
he’ll be able to suggest something else.” Right after she walked out I
though, “oh shit, he’s the one who didn’t help me last time.”
Sure enough, the first thing this bozo did when walking in was tell me
he would have treated me in different fashion than my own pain doc was,
then
asked me, “are you selling your pills? No offense but are you?”
Understanding the question but still offended due to the silliness of
my
selling any of my much needed and still not quite enough drugs, I said no.
He then said he was going to have to talk to my doc and see about
putting me on something else, as he reached into the shelf being him to
pull
out the previously mentioned flier for bup.
I had already told this guy I had Hep C. but he was a bozo and pain no
attention to what I told him.
(He also took back the script the intern had already written and wrote
one for just 6 days rather than the 3 weeks I usually got, forcing me to
come back in less than a week and pay another $80 bucks for a simply
office
visit- that doesn’t even begin to cover the cost of scripts.)
So after I left and got home I pulled out the flier for bup/naloxone, and
read it.
The first thing it says it that Bup is a narcotic and can be diverted
to
street sales, which puzzled the shit outta me as that was his biggest
concern supposedly- why would he change my script due to a stated fear I
could be selling my drugs to another script I could sell just as easily?
Then I read the whole page where it says that Bup does holy hell to a
liver and that if on Bup we should pay attention to all sorts of symptoms
that show it’s causing yet more damage to a damaged liver.
Why the hell would he feel the need to take me off a drug that I know
is
helping me to put me on another that the only selling point to is that it
is
a drug to help withdrawals while treatig pain too? Seems a bit odd to me
that he is pushing a drug that is just as addictive and a LOT worse for my
body. Are doctors, or this doctor anyway, so frightened by DrugWar
propaganda and scare tactics that he/they really feel that Bup is “better”
than a more natural, less toxic on the liver opiate based medication?
Yes, it seem so if my own experiences are any indication.
Anyway, Bup doesn’t seem all that safe either nor well tested, as Dr.
Andrew Byrne in Australia pointed out recently:

It is worrying that the
American FDA has approved the marketing of the combination product (bup
and
naltrexone, and naloxone) even
before research of this nature had been established. One wonders if they
have different standards for drugs used in the treatment of addiction.<

This is clipped from the comments about Bup you can find just below here.
So I hope this give syou some more idea of Bup and the mentality
pushing
this stuff. I think it goes hand in hand with the same mentality that
pushed
methadone as opposed to simply PRESCRIBING HEROIN, a much less toxic, more
effective, all around better drug.
But then, that would not only be more humane, it would make sense, and
we can’t have that now can we? I mean, we are waging a war on some drugs
and
users, right? Soooo.
Peace,
Preston

Pharmacokinetics of high-dose buprenorphine following single
administration of sublingual tablet formulations in opioid naïve healthy
male volunteers under a naltrexone block. McAleer SD, Mills RJ, Polack
T, Hussain T, Rolan PE, Gibbs AD, Mullins FGP, Hussein Z. Drug Alc
Depend (2003) 72; 1:75-83

Dear Colleagues,
At last we have some real data on buprenorphine half lives, absorption
and effects from healthy volunteer studies. These researchers, who were
working for the manufacturers, have taken 35 healthy males and given
substantial doses of buprenorphine after 50 -150mg naltrexone ‘block’.
They then measured clinical and blood parameters at regular intervals
for up to 3 days in an in-patient setting. Techniques for measuring
blood levels of buprenorphine are still being developed and are not
generally available in clinical practice. This makes patient history and
clinical observation even more important than otherwise. A liquid
chromatographic tandem mass spectrometric (LC-MS/MS) assay was developed
by these researchers and it was validated for the measurement of
buprenorphine and nor-buprenorphine, its metabolite, in blood.

Mean half life was found to be 26 hours with a wide range from 9 to 69.
Interestingly, these authors have confirmed some observations in
clinical practice including highly variable half lives and the
‘bi-exponential’ decay sometimes reported by patients. Some had a
‘secondary peak’ at about 10 hours from dosing. The authors report that
some had higher levels following meals and propose ‘entero-hepatic
recirculation’ in some cases. Maximum or ‘peak’ levels occurred between
30 minutes and 3 hours.

The addition of naloxone in the sublingual preparation made no
difference to blood levels. The time taken for the tablets to dissolve
were similar for all dose levels from 2 to 16mg (range 6-12 min) and
were no different for the combination product. It is worrying that the
American FDA has approved the marketing of the combination product even
before research of this nature had been established. One wonders if they
have different standards for drugs used in the treatment of addiction.

A weakness of the study was that it did not examine levels in on-going
treatment, but just individual single doses. Thus is it more relevant to
the initiation period, which is still a major problem for some patients.
There were no opioid effects using the naltrexone block at between 50
and 150mg doses prior to opioid administration.

comments by Andrew Byrne ..

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dr Andrew Byrne,
Medical Practitioner, Dependency Medicine,
75 Redfern Street, Redfern,
New South Wales, 2016, Australia
Email – ajbyrneATozemail.com.au
Tel (61 – 2) 9319 5524 Fax 9318 0631
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 8:57 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route
you take it

Hi Peet,

Thanks Peet, very much.  I don’t believe everything I read so I like to
get
people’s opinions or learn from their experiences.  That’s what I was
trying
to find out.  I know that you know back in the 60’s methadone was suppose
to
be eaiser to kick than H.  There is not one person I know who believes,
that
including many docs.

I see the suboxone doc this Wed. and I will see how things go and take it
from there.  At least now I have something to think about or ask him.
BTW,
I asked at the drugstore how much the Subutex pills are and they are $ 6
each for the 8 mg.  Thanks for your imput, it is appreciated.

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Jim Hadey >What I want to know if it is in Subutex, <

According to the flier I have in my hands right now from the company, no
it
is not in Subutex- that contains “only the medicine burprenorphine” while
Suboxone contines both bup and naloxone. Both Subutex and Suboxone can
cause
fairly severe side effects if the flier is any indication.
And, it IS NOT GOOD TO TAKE IF YOU HAVE HEP C!!!!!
Peace,
Preston

.
—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 2:50 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route
you take it

Hi all,

I know the difference between Naloxone and Naltrexone, Narcan (Naloxone)
is
shorter acting and is shot up. What I want to know if you take it via
mouth
will it make you sick?

They put it i! t Talwin (Narcon or Naloxone) to stop people from shooting
it
up. What I want to know if it is in Subutex, which it is, will it also
make you sick by taking it via mouth or under the tongue? It is not
suppose
to. But I would like to be sure. Like did bupe or Subutex cause anyone to
go into w/d by placing it under the tongue? I probably will not use smack
for the next few days but am taking quite a bit of Lortab.

Thanks for any help,

– JIM

Preston Peet wrote:
Naloxone is administered intravenously and lasts for approximately 20
minutes.<

This is Narcan, right, this Naloxone?

No matter what name they use it is still some bad shit for addicts!<
Other than for the fa ct it can and has saved a number of lives, I agree
in
that Narcan is not a pleasent drug to be given as an opiate addict, or so
I’ve been lead to believe from seeing it given right in front of me- a few
here may even be able! to give us even more first hand accounts that I
have
in the following. I’ve probably posted this before, but so what? There are
a
few newish subscribers who may not have seen this, so I post it again, at
risk of repeating myself and in hopes of entertaining some of you:
snip-
“What’s that, Narcan?” Thomas asks.
“That’s right,” says the paramedic. “He’s a lucky guy.” He shoots the
stuff
into Void’s upper arm. “Thirty seconds, just wait. This stuff is magic.”
Thomas doesn’t think Void is going to feel so lucky when he wakes up.
Yeah,
he’s alive, but he’d just gotten straight. Now he’s going to be really
sick.
<
end snip-
Full story:
http://www.drugwar.com/PrestonPeetIndex.shtm
Narcan-
Bringing the Dead Back to Life
chapter 20 of “Something in the Way”
copyright 2001
by Preston Peet

posted Halloween, 2002
“Why is it whenever I’m broke they’re everywhere, but when I’ve got cash,
I
can’t find anyone?”
“Yeah wel! l, at least you’ve got money. All I got are these two lousy
videos.
Oh, hold on a second.”
Thomas watches his friend Void run over to a couple of fences standing by
St. Marks, and 2nd Ave., and try to sell them the videotapes, to no avail.
Thomas was exiting a building at the corner of Lafayette and Houston
Streets
after selling some freshly-stolen Shitake mushrooms as Magic mushrooms,
calling them “Colorado Gold Tops.” Some guys he’d approached on their way
to
a club near Fourteenth St. the night before had given him a business card
with their work number on it, telling him to call after Thomas had
mentioned
he could get really good mushrooms. As soon as he’d woken up this morning,
he’d run to a phone and given them a call. Setting up the deal had been
little trouble. Thomas plays to his victims’ greed, offering them deals
better than any they’ll know of anywhere, yet not so much better that the
vics get suspicious. He depends on this kind ! of scam for almost his
entire
livelihood. From ! necessity he’s gotten very good at separating people
from
their money.
Stepping out the office building’s front door, flush with the feeling of
success and a good sum of cash, Thomas’ mind was focused on going to
score.
He’d not seen Void standing there until he’d literally bumped into him.
“Hey, what’s up Void? ‘Scuse me, I’m on a mission. Didn’t see you.” Void
seemed to be just standing there. “What are you doing, spanging?”
“Oh no, I need to sell these movies.” Void held out the films, still in
their new, shrink-wrapped boxes. “I’m really sick. I need to get straight,
bad. I’m gonna come with you, ’cause hopefully by the time you score, I’ll
have sold these.”
Thomas hadn’t been so sure of that, and he’s still not too sure, but he
likes Void. Thomas decides that he’ll help get him straight if Void can’t
sell the videos. If it comes to that. Thomas doesn’t say this aloud, as
there’s the c! hance Void’ll pull it off, but won’t try as hard if he
thinks
he’s already covered.
Everyone on the street has their own scam, their own game they play to get
what they need. It’s deadly real to the people playing, never feeling much
like a game to Thomas anymore. He just happens to make a bit more money
than
most with his particular scam, enabling him to build a bigger habit.
Void rejoins him. They continue walking down St. Marks to Tompkins Sq.,
heading through to the opposite side of the park. Unbelievably, none of
the
spots they pass are open. There’s nobody out doing any selling. Void
doesn’t
mind as he hasn’t sold the tapes yet, but Thomas is pissed. There’d been
dealers out and about not one hour before as he’d been on his way to sell
the shrooms. Now there’s no one.
“What about 13th Street? Rush?” Void asks. “How’s that been?”
“It hasn’t been so good the last few days, garbage really.” Thomas
answers.
“I don’t know if they’re even! open yet. It’s only what, Two o’clock,
right?”
Thomas doesn’t want to walk over to 13th Street. Walking is beginning to
be
a chore. He can feel the lack of dope in him, draining his energy
reserves.
Void is even worse off, but therefore more willing to put the effort into
going the four blocks out of the way. There’s nothing for it except to go
along, and Thomas does, grudgingly.
They head straight up 10th St. to 1st Ave., and turn right. At 12th, one
block before they reach the spot, Void unloads the two tapes to someone at
an incense table, making himself the ten bucks he needs for a bag. Thomas
is
amazed. He hadn’t expected Void to do it, not after failing the entire
walk.
“Void, why don’t you go get the dope while I go around the block and score
some coke? We’ll meet at the Polish restaurant, Christine’s, between 12th
and 13th Streets.”
“Sure, how many do you want?”
“Get me four,” Thomas says handing him forty dollars. “Hurry up.”Normally
he
wouldn’t trust someone with his cash, having been burned a
number of times before, but he knows Void pretty well. The two of them are
as close to being friends as people can get and still be strung out, and
besides, if Void knows he’s going to get some coke, he’ll be there. He’s a
fiend who would rather get both.
Like his now-dead friend Dan had been once, Void is another rare find.
The coke store Thomas goes to is on 12th St., just across Ave. A. It only
takes him 5 minutes to get there, conduct his business, and get back to
Christine’s. He arrives almost the same moment as Void, and they walk in
together.
Neither of them look too respectable. The restaurant staff eye them both
with suspicion and just a bit of revulsion, but no one stops them from
taking a seat at a table in the dining area.
“Let me go first, man,” Void says as soon as they are seated. “I’m really
sick. I’m going to throw up right here if I don’t do a shot soon.! ”
It’s not a lot different for Thomas, who can feel his stomach clenching
and
bubbling in anticipation. But he knows Void is in far worse shape so
agrees
to wait at the table for Void to go to the toilet first. One of them has
to
wait with all their bags while the other gets straight.
“Yeah, all right already, just go.”
“The guy said this is a new batch, that it’s very good, and strong,” Void
says under his breath.
“Yeah, they always say that it’s the best. You know that. It’d be nice
though if it’s better than what they’ve had recently, that’s for sure.”
Thomas isn’t too hopeful. As long as it gets him straight, he doesn’t much
care. “Hurry up. Don’t take forever, ’cause I want to go too.”
“Can I have some coke for my shot?” Void asks, still not moving.
“Hell no. I’ll give you some later, but if you do it now, I’ll be out here
an hour waiting for you. Fuck that.” There’s no anger in his voice, it’s
just that Thomas knows how it is on coke sometimes. “I promise, I’ll give
you some a little later. Now go, hurry up.”
Void goes to the bathroom, leaving Thomas at the table. A waitress comes
over right after Void walks away, so to keep the place happy, and to feed
the both of them a little something, Thomas orders two soups and coffees.
By
the time Void comes back to the table, Thomas is almost finished with his
soup and very impatient.
“About fucking time, Void.” Thomas snarls as Void tries to pull out a
chair.
He misjudges the distance, pulls it too far, then sits in such a way as to
send both it and himself crashing to the floor.
Thomas can’t help it, and laughs out loud. Still chuckling, he bends down
and gives Void a hand up. As he lifts, he notices Void is not responding
well, that his eyes are way fucked up, glassy and very pinned.
“Hey, you’re not going to nod here at the table and get us thrown out, are
you?” He watches Void struggling to keep his eyes open. “You ok?”
“Oh, come on man, you know me, I’m good. Go ahead.” Void slurs out as he
picks up his coffee, sloshing a third of it onto the table.
Thomas can’t wait any longer. He has to trust that Void will be OK, and
goes
to take his turn. The toilet stalls are well used by regular customers of
the dope spot around the corner. Thomas is frequently one of those. He
knows
the restaurant well, knows he should have time to relax and go slow
without
having a manager in too quickly. He gets out his stuff and mixes up a shot
in short order. Right as he has the vein, just about to boot, there comes
a
firm knock on the door of the stall, then an older man’s heavily accented
voice.
“Hey! That your friend at the table? He dead! We call Police, they coming
now. You hurry!”
Thomas pushes in the shot before he realizes what the old guy said. Then
as
the drugs take hold the old guy’s words sink in, giving Thomas the
simultaneous rush of the incredibly! strong drugs and the disbelief and
shock
at what’s just been said to him through the closed toilet stall door. The
coke rush barely tops the dope. The dealer was telling Void the truth,
because the dope feels stronger than any he’s yet found in NYC. Fast as he
can in the shape he’s in, he puts everything away and cleans himself up.
He
wants to be out of the toilet before the cops arrive, not wanting any more
attention than he’s already going to have with a dead, overdosed friend on
the floor. That’s already more than he wants.
He gets to the table as quickly as he can. Sure enough, Void is on the
floor, half under the table, not moving. Thomas crouches down and shakes
him. “Wake the hell up man, the cops are coming.” This has absolutely no
effect, so he tries smacking him on the cheeks, one after the other. Again
there’s nothing. Void’s tattooed face and lips are by now turning a
weirder
shade of blue, and Thomas can’t find any sign of breath! ing or a pulse.
He
pushes the table back, pulls Void’s body so he’s lying stretched out on
his
back, and considers giving him mouth to mouth resuscitation or even CPR.
Luckily he doesn’t have to as he’s abruptly pushed aside by two eager
paramedics, all bustle and business.
“Overdose,” says the one who pushed Thomas. “What’d he take?”
“He told me he was sick, and was going to score a bag. I think he only did
one. That’s all the money he had, ten bucks.” Thomas is thinking that when
the coke he himself shot in that speedball wears off, he’s also going to
be
very stoned, and doesn’t want to be dealing with the police. They’d
arrived
with the paramedics, and now they start to question him.
“Where’d he get it? You got any yourself, kid?” One bored cop asks.
“I don’t know where he got it, and no, I don’t.” Thomas sees no need for
complete honesty here.
Down on the floor the paramedics aren’t having any more luck than had
Thomas
in getting Void! to respond. One of them reaches into the box of medical
supplies he’d brought in, and starts rummaging around.
“His girlfriend lives right across the street. I’m going to run see if
she’s
there, because I’m not going to the hospital with him. She should know
anyway.” The cops agree it’s a good idea, so Thomas runs to her apartment.
Finding her home, he quickly convinces her to come with him, explaining
along the way what’s going on.
By the time they get back to the restaurant, the paramedic is holding a
loaded hypodermic in his hand, preparing to administer it to Void.
“What’s that, Narcan?” Thomas asks.
“That’s right,” says the paramedic. “He’s a lucky guy.” He shoots the
stuff
into Void’s upper arm. “Thirty seconds, just wait. This stuff is magic.”
Thomas doesn’t think Void is going to feel so lucky when he wakes up.
Yeah,
he’s alive, but he’d just gotten straight. Now he’s going to be really
sick.
Narcan completely clears the system! of any vestige of the drug and it’s
effects, at least temporarily, leaving the patient agonizingly ill.
After exactly thirty seconds, Void’s eyes shoot open. The first words out
of
his mouth are, “I’m all right, I’m all right.” He’s not even aware he’s
been
dead, at least not immediately, but confusion is evident on his face. It’s
obvious something is wrong. He looks up at the paramedics and cops. “Oh
shit.”
“Just lie there for a minute, kid. Relax.” One of the paramedics tells
Void,
who’s struggling to get to his feet. “Give it a minute, you just had a
close
call.”
“So now what?” Thomas interrupts one of the cops, who’s making disparaging
remarks about junkies and losers to his partner. “Is he going to be OK?”
“Yeah, he’ll be fine. They’ve got to take him in to the hospital ’cause
they
gave him a shot. It’s the law. They work on you, you ride with them.” The
cop doesn’t look at Thomas, so Thomas doesn’t say anything else.
Void is helpe! d out of the door by the paramedics. Void’s girlfriend goes
with him. Thomas can hear her soothing Void, giving comfort, and almost
feel
s a pang of jealousy. He can’t imagine his girlfiend acting thus for him.
The cops are speaking with the restaurant staff, writing in their little
black books and ignoring him, so Thomas decides it’s definitely time for
him
to go.
No one pays him any mind as he picks up his bag and coat, and walks out
the
front door onto 1st Ave.
“Damn I’m glad I’m not Void right now,” he thinks, watching the ambulance
drive away. Narcan does not look like a fun experience. If Void had been
in
a park somewhere, he wouldn’t have had to go through that. Most probably
he
would have simply slept through the dope, then woken up tomorrow sick,
ready
to start again. Which is of course exactly what’s going to happen. Thomas
knows he’ll bump into Void again soon, sick as hell out looking for drugs.
This close call won’t change a thi! ng.
It doesn’t occur to Thomas how close he himself came to lying on the floor
being treated by the paramedics.
Thomas shakes his head, then heads to Tompkins Square to do some more of
his
own stuff, stopping along the way to tell another couple of fiends he
knows
that “Rush is damned good today.”

Tompkins Sq. Park
Peace all,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 11:22 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route you
take it

Jim, I did some research and my findings are as follows…
What is the difference between naltrexone and naloxone?
Functionally, they are the same type of drug. They compete with heroin at
the receptor level and block the effect of heroin. Naloxone is
administered
intravenously and lasts for approximately 20 minutes. Naltrexone is
administered orally (pill form) and can last for 1 to 2 days.
No matter what name they use it is still some bad shit for addicts!
They are now using Naltrexone in alcoholism treatment!
Callie

ATTACHMENT part 2 image/jpeg name=shooter2.jpg

ATTACHMENT part 3 image/jpeg name=tompkinstable2.JPG

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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]DH
Date: July 25, 2004 at 6:51:56 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hi Hannah,

I needed your post this am

Sean

From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran
Date: July 25, 2004 at 6:40:37 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I assume you’re talikgn about cocaine ‘bugs’?  I never did know what people
were talking about when they said that!  Now I’m glad I didn’t ever find
out,lol!

Mark-I think we’ll all be thinking of you and sending positive lurve vibes
your way,lol!
Hannah
—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 12:41 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran

“your so brave”
LOL.
Seriously brave guy, I am excited for you.
I for one am glad you surviced that cocaine incident- god damn but I
remember that feeling of fear so well, that absolute terror telling
someone,
“hey, go get help, I’m going to die,” and watching them not move, not get
up, not do anything at all but sit there as the huge bugs began crawling
around my face and body, so big I could feel them crunching in my fingers
as
I yanked them from my face but couldn’t hear the pop as the strobe light
was
too loud in my ears and I couldn’t see the damn things
because…well…they
weren’t really there.
Those were the days, eh?
Peace and love to you Mark.
Preston (make sure to fill us in upon your return. DON’T leave those of us
still waiting in the lurch, PLEASE.)

—– Original Message —–
From: mcorcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 6:32 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran

I had this dream last night that my plane was hijacked and I was trying to
sneak in the bathroom to drink my bottles, sick huh? Maybe no more 9-11
report before my Ibo treatment. Oh my God, I’m leavin the day after
tomorrow. I dropped to 80 today. i guess for no other reason than kickin
an
80 sounds a lot more doable than a 90 or 100 or 110.
Hey not bad for 4 weeks. But I’m not feelin all that great i have to tell
you. But not terrible either. Excited as hell one minute scared to death
the
next. But I guess thats normal. If one more person says “your so brave” I
think I’ll puke. I mean I appreciate th sentiment, I really do.  but I
don’t
want this to be a thing where I need to be “soo brave” I want this to be a
little easier than everyone seems to think. Not you guys of course. :o)
Well
not all of you anyway. I’m feeling empowered these last few days. i guess
looking at the prospect of being free makes me realize that  a lot of the
things that I do in my life that I’m not happy with I put up with because
in
one way or another because if I didn’t it would make my use that much more
difficult. Hate my job, but there is not much chance that I could make
this
kinda money doing something I like, and I need this money for my expensive
program, and my frivolous spending due to drugs and alcohol. My Apartment,
its a nice place but I wouldn’t be breaking my neck trying to pay this
ridiculous rent if it wasn’t so convenient to my program and my drinking
haunts. Oh and Harlem being 15 blocks away has been a plus as well. Ya
know,
shit like that. So the idea that I no longer need to live with that fear
that if it all came crumbling down (which it feels like its going to at
any
minute)  I’d be totally screwed, is really comforting. I walked out of the
office this afternoon and thought to myself that its more likely than not
that I will never step foot in that place again, and instead of that fear
I
usually feel when I think I might lose my job and wont have money coming
in,
it was a feeling of  complete relief. It was like “Thank God I’m finally
closing the door on this miserable part of my life”. I couldn’t stop
smiling
all the way home.
Then on the subway I see this guy that I used to run with (Preston you’d
know him) and he looked like death warmed over. “Just came home from doin
90
days on the Island and lookin for dope and coke and headin uptown”. I
told
him about the Ibogaine and he didn’t seem to have much thoughts one way or
another. He said that it seemed like I was doing well to begin with then
he
began to  talk about how fucked up used to be and “do you remember the
time
you had that coke OD seize running out of that restaurant on 5th St, cuz
the
guy caught you in the bathroom fixing?” I acted like I didn’t know what he
was talkin about  but I remember obviously and instead of responding
further
I kept asking him to keep his voice down. Actually I remembered it like it
was yesterday after he mentioned it, just slamming the whole 20 because I
was already so freaked out that he had burst in on me… and my legs are
giving out and my arms are starting to go and I know its coming… I
turned
around and said “please sir, I’m gonna die” He said something like” yeah
you
are gonna die” but before he had a chance I collapsed and bounced around
like a fish out of water. God its crazy because I haven’t been that kinda
cracked out. Now 8 or 9 years later I’m an undercover junkie. But even
though I’m about the furthest thing from that kid I was now but I’m more
miserable than I’ve ever been.
Anyway I got off at my stop and he continued uptown but as a got off the
train immediately I felt better and it felt like I was supposed to see
him.
I mean this is a kid I used to run with every day that I haven’t seen in 7
or 8 years. Been thinking so much about my past and all the people who are
dead and gone and how things have changed so much in less than 10 years.
Sorry for that ramble. I’m just so all over the place. But I’m doing good.
Gonna go watch the news.
Thanks for everything and tonight I will respond to all.

D H <dave@phantom.com> wrote:

On Thursday, July 22, 2004, at 09:33 PM, Hannah Clay wrote:

Nice words DH, made me cry!  What if you suddenly realise there ain’t
no music in your head no more?  And you can’t even be sure what tune
it used to be?

Hannah

a lot of your story rings true for me too.

Now why is it that I make women cry??? :^) (Not the music in your
head… in your heart!)

I have often found myself thinking the same thing, no music, no joy,
what is it all coming to?

I don’t have any easy answers to that. My first thought was, This girl
needs some Ibogaine! or perhaps a toke off a really good indica joint.
Except that can be a little too revealing if you are strung out (maybe
that would be a good thing, i dunno) But I will say I avoided smoking
weed when I was doing smack and crack, it made me too! aware of myself.
which is the opposite of what I was trying to accomplish.

But if the above are not options, I’d say do something good for your
soul. Take a walk by yourself or with a close friend in a park or on
the beach or near a river or lake or wherever is peaceful near where
you live. Treat yourself to an ice cream or go to a music store and
listen to something you’ve never heard before. write crazy thoughts
down… getting them onto paper or computer screen takes them out of
your head, and allows room for creativity, inspiration and that music
of the heart. Geez, that sounds really fucking corny but it works. It
may take days/weeks of writing/journaling to get the flow…

You are right, finding that music in the heart is important.

for me, it is knowing that at the deepest core level, I am a good
person, a pure soul, no matter what the head tells me, or anyone else,
for that matter. Undoubtedly Ibogaine made me ! aware of this, before Ibo
I was just going thru the motions, and kept returning to dope no matter
how hard I tried, or what treatment I did.

But ultimately, getting off the shit will make your life
tremendously… better. Or different anyhow. I don’t recall hearing any
music in my heart when I was using. The only thing I heard was chaotic
noise.

Hey, on the opiate detox site I use 2 people posted that you shouldn’t
take Ibogaine if you’re a woman-its dangerous!  Where on earth did
they get that from?

I do remember reading this along time ago, back in 1996-7. I think it
stems from the fact that a woman died while on Ibogaine in Europe back
then, but I don’t know of any science or statistics that support this.

Howard?

Peace,

_.dh

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Vote for the stars of Yahoo!’s next ad campaign!

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From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]DH
Date: July 25, 2004 at 6:32:59 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Aw, thanks so much for that.  Just knowing I’m not alone in my madness is good.  A couple of weeks ago I went up to the Lake District which is North-west England,  fells, lakes, little windy roads, forests…emmmm I love forests!  Anyway, that week I never even thought of Smack (I had my Sub with me) and was ‘happy’.  I think I wanna run away with the travellers!

Basically I just spend too much time thinking about myself n not enough time socialisin.  Before I used H I was really loud n popular but since H I’m really quiet n nervous.  Probably coz of the huge number of bastards I met whilst using.  I think its really changed me.  Now I’m always on my own.  And smoking weed constantly probably doesn’t help but its the only thing that helps me chill now I’m trying to avoid H (not doing that well either!)

Even when I was a kid I used to write lists of things I wanted people to say about me if I died like ‘kind’ or whatever.  They were my goals.

I think I just spend too much time analysing myself!  I once read a Doctors comments on the Net and he said that all heroin addicts share the same common attributes:
1) immaturity
2)irresponsibilty
3)too much time navel-gazing (by which I think he meant self-analysis)
What do you all think?

Thanks again,  I really needed to hear some kind words this morning!
lol Hannah x
—– Original Message —–
From: D H
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 8:09 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran

On Thursday, July 22, 2004, at 09:33 PM, Hannah Clay wrote:

Nice words DH, made me cry!  What if you suddenly realise there ain’t no music in your head no more?  And you can’t even be sure what tune it used to be?

Hannah,

a lot of your story rings true for me too.

Now why is it that I make women cry??? :^) (Not the music in your head… in your heart!)

I have often found myself thinking the same thing, no music, no joy, what is it all coming to?

I don’t have any easy answers to that. My first thought was, This girl needs some Ibogaine! or perhaps a toke off a really good indica joint. Except that can be a little too revealing if you are strung out (maybe that would be a good thing, i dunno) But I will say I avoided smoking weed when I was doing smack and crack, it made me too aware of myself. which is the opposite of what I was trying to accomplish.

But if the above are not options, I’d say do something good for your soul. Take a walk by yourself or with a close friend in a park or on the beach or near a river or lake or wherever is peaceful near where you live. Treat yourself to an ice cream or go to a music store and listen to something you’ve never heard before. write crazy thoughts down… getting them onto paper or computer screen takes them out of your head, and allows room for creativity, inspiration and that music of the heart. Geez, that sounds really fucking corny but it works. It may take days/weeks of writing/journaling to get the flow…

You are right, finding that music in the heart is important.

for me, it is knowing that at the deepest core level, I am a good person, a pure soul, no matter what the head tells me, or anyone else, for that matter. Undoubtedly Ibogaine made me aware of this, before Ibo I was just going thru the motions, and kept returning to dope no matter how hard I tried, or what treatment I did.

But ultimately, getting off the shit will make your life tremendously… better. Or different anyhow. I don’t recall hearing any music in my heart when I was using. The only thing I heard was chaotic noise.

Hey, on the opiate detox site I use 2 people posted that you shouldn’t take Ibogaine if you’re a woman-its dangerous!  Where on earth did they get that from?

I do remember reading this along time ago, back in 1996-7. I think it stems from the fact that a woman died while on Ibogaine in Europe back then, but I don’t know of any science or statistics that support this.

Howard?

Peace,

_.dh

From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route you take it
Date: July 25, 2004 at 6:21:37 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Firstly Subutex does not contain it,  Suboxone does.  And it only stops you hitting the tablets up.

You would go into WD if you didn’t leave long enough between it and your H – I always leave 12hrs after I’ve had a shot before I take my Sub.  It generally advisable to wait until you’re in mild WD before you take your Sub-not proper sick but you know you’re rattling.

I am confused now though-I thought Suboxone contained Naltrexone not Naloxone but I’m always getting it confused!  It is a human rights issue really-if you’ve never hit-up drugs before then why should you be forced to take a drug that contains soemthing that is not necessary to you?

I hope this helps?  Please anyone jump in if I’m talking crap!  My boyf just came in-he hates me going on this newsgroup and my opiate detox forum for some reason.  He says I can’t trust what people tell me and I become a self-righteous wanker thinking I know better than Doctors etc.  But lots of Docs don’t seem to know much about Sub.  And I do try find out if things are true.  And I try SOOOO hard not to sound self-righteous.  I know how much I hated that when I was full-blown using.

I’m really sorry if I came across like a wanker everybody 🙁

Hannah
—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 7:50 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route you take it

Hi All,

I know the difference between Naloxone and Naltrexone, Narcan (Naloxone) is shorter acting and is shot up.  What I want to know if you take it via mouth will it make you sick?

They put it it Talwin (Narcon or Naloxone) to stop people from shooting it up.  What I want to know if it is in Subutex, which it is,  will it also make you sick by taking it via mouth or under the tongue?  It is not suppose to.  But I would like to be sure.  Like did bupe or Subutex cause anyone to go into w/d by placing it under the tongue?  I probably will not use smack for the next few days but am taking quite a bit of Lortab.

Thanks for any help,

– JIM

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>Naloxone is administered intravenously and lasts for approximately 20 minutes.<

This is Narcan, right, this Naloxone?

>No matter what name they use it is still some bad shit for addicts!<
Other than for the fa ct it can and has saved a number of lives, I agree in that Narcan is not a pleasent drug to be given as an opiate addict, or so I’ve been lead to believe from  seeing it given right in front of me- a few here may even be able to give us even more first hand accounts that I have in the following. I’ve probably posted this before, but so what? There are a few newish subscribers who may not have seen this, so I post it again, at risk of repeating myself and in hopes of entertaining some of you:
snip-
>“What’s that, Narcan?” Thomas asks.
“That’s right,” says the paramedic. “He’s a lucky guy.” He shoots the stuff into Void’s upper arm. “Thirty seconds, just wait. This stuff is magic.”
Thomas doesn’t think Void is going to feel so lucky when he wakes up. Yeah, he’s alive, but he’d just gotten straight. Now he’s going to be really sick. <
end snip-
Full story:
http://www.drugwar.com/PrestonPeetIndex.shtm
Narcan- 
Bringing the Dead Back to Life
chapter 20 of “Something in the Way”
copyright 2001
by Preston Peet

posted Halloween, 2002

“Why is it whenever I’m broke they’re everywhere, but when I’ve got cash, I can’t find anyone?”
“Yeah well, at least you’ve got money. All I got are these two lousy videos. Oh, hold on a second.”
Thomas watches his friend Void run over to a couple of fences standing by St. Marks, and 2nd Ave., and try to sell them the videotapes, to no avail.
Thomas was exiting a building at the corner of Lafayette and Houston Streets after selling some freshly-stolen Shitake mushrooms as Magic mushrooms, calling them “Colorado Gold Tops.” Some guys he’d approached on their way to a club near Fourteenth St. the night before had given him a business card with their work number on it, telling him to call after Thomas had mentioned he could get really good mushrooms. As soon as he’d woken up this morning, he’d run to a phone and given them a call. Setting up the deal had been little trouble. Thomas plays to his victims’ greed, offering them deals better than any they’ll know of anywhere, yet not so much better that the vics get suspicious. He depends on this kind of scam for almost his entire livelihood. From necessity he’s gotten very good at separating people from their money.
Stepping out the office building’s front door, flush with the feeling of success and a good sum of cash, Thomas’ mind was focused on going to score. He’d not seen Void standing there until he’d literally bumped into him.
“Hey, what’s up Void? ‘Scuse me, I’m on a mission. Didn’t see you.” Void seemed to be just standing there. “What are you doing, spanging?”
“Oh no, I need to sell these movies.” Void held out the films, still in their new, shrink-wrapped boxes. “I’m really sick. I need to get straight, bad. I’m gonna come with you, ‘cause hopefully by the time you score, I’ll have sold these.”
Thomas hadn’t been so sure of that, and he’s still not too sure, but he likes Void. Thomas decides that he’ll help get him straight if Void can’t sell the videos. If it comes to that. Thomas doesn’t say this aloud, as there’s the chance Void’ll pull it off, but won’t try as hard if he thinks he’s already covered.
Everyone on the street has their own scam, their own game they play to get what they need. It’s deadly real to the people playing, never feeling much like a game to Thomas anymore. He just happens to make a bit more money than most with his particular scam, enabling him to build a bigger habit.
Void rejoins him. They continue walking down St. Marks to Tompkins Sq., heading through to the opposite side of the park. Unbelievably, none of the spots they pass are open. There’s nobody out doing any selling. Void doesn’t mind as he hasn’t sold the tapes yet, but Thomas is pissed. There’d been dealers out and about not one hour before as he’d been on his way to sell the shrooms. Now there’s no one.
“What about 13th Street? Rush?” Void asks. “How’s that been?”
“It hasn’t been so good the last few days, garbage really.” Thomas answers. “I don’t know if they’re even open yet. It’s only what, Two o’clock, right?”
Thomas doesn’t want to walk over to 13th Street. Walking is beginning to be a chore. He can feel the lack of dope in him, draining his energy reserves. Void is even worse off, but therefore more willing to put the effort into going the four blocks out of the way. There’s nothing for it except to go along, and Thomas does, grudgingly.
They head straight up 10th St. to 1st Ave., and turn right. At 12th, one block before they reach the spot, Void unloads the two tapes to someone at an incense table, making himself the ten bucks he needs for a bag. Thomas is amazed. He hadn’t expected Void to do it, not after failing the entire walk.
“Void, why don’t you go get the dope while I go around the block and score some coke? We’ll meet at the Polish restaurant, Christine’s, between 12th and 13th Streets.”
“Sure, how many do you want?”
“Get me four,” Thomas says handing him forty dollars. “Hurry up.”
Normally he wouldn’t trust someone with his cash, having been burned a number of times before, but he knows Void pretty well. The two of them are as close to being friends as people can get and still be strung out, and besides, if Void knows he’s going to get some coke, he’ll be there. He’s a fiend who would rather get both.
Like his now-dead friend Dan had been once, Void is another rare find.
The coke store Thomas goes to is on 12th St., just across Ave. A. It only takes him 5 minutes to get there, conduct his business, and get back to Christine’s. He arrives almost the same moment as Void, and they walk in together.
Neither of them look too respectable. The restaurant staff eye them both with suspicion and just a bit of revulsion, but no one stops them from taking a seat at a table in the dining area.
“Let me go first, man,” Void says as soon as they are seated. “I’m really sick. I’m going to throw up right here if I don’t do a shot soon.”
It’s not a lot different for Thomas, who can feel his stomach clenching and bubbling in anticipation. But he knows Void is in far worse shape so agrees to wait at the table for Void to go to the toilet first. One of them has to wait with all their bags while the other gets straight.
“Yeah, all right already, just go.”
“The guy said this is a new batch, that it’s very good, and strong,” Void says under his breath.
“Yeah, they always say that it’s the best. You know that. It’d be nice though if it’s better than what they’ve had recently, that’s for sure.” Thomas isn’t too hopeful. As long as it gets him straight, he doesn’t much care. “Hurry up. Don’t take forever, ‘cause I want to go too.”
“Can I have some coke for my shot?” Void asks, still not moving.
“Hell no. I’ll give you some later, but if you do it now, I’ll be out here an hour waiting for you. Fuck that.” There’s no anger in his voice, it’s just that Thomas knows how it is on coke sometimes. “I promise, I’ll give you some a little later. Now go, hurry up.”
Void goes to the bathroom, leaving Thomas at the table. A waitress comes over right after Void walks away, so to keep the place happy, and to feed the both of them a little something, Thomas orders two soups and coffees. By the time Void comes back to the table, Thomas is almost finished with his soup and very impatient.
“About fucking time, Void.” Thomas snarls as Void tries to pull out a chair. He misjudges the distance, pulls it too far, then sits in such a way as to send both it and himself crashing to the floor.
Thomas can’t help it, and laughs out loud. Still chuckling, he bends down and gives Void a hand up. As he lifts, he notices Void is not responding well, that his eyes are way fucked up, glassy and very pinned.
“Hey, you’re not going to nod here at the table and get us thrown out, are you?” He watches Void struggling to keep his eyes open. “You ok?”
“Oh, come on man, you know me, I’m good. Go ahead.” Void slurs out as he picks up his coffee, sloshing a third of it onto the table.
Thomas can’t wait any longer. He has to trust that Void will be OK, and goes to take his turn. The toilet stalls are well used by regular customers of the dope spot around the corner. Thomas is frequently one of those. He knows the restaurant well, knows he should have time to relax and go slow without having a manager in too quickly. He gets out his stuff and mixes up a shot in short order. Right as he has the vein, just about to boot, there comes a firm knock on the door of the stall, then an older man’s heavily accented voice.
“Hey! That your friend at the table? He dead! We call Police, they coming now. You hurry!”
Thomas pushes in the shot before he realizes what the old guy said. Then as the drugs take hold the old guy’s words sink in, giving Thomas the simultaneous rush of the incredibly strong drugs and the disbelief and shock at what’s just been said to him through the closed toilet stall door. The coke rush barely tops the dope. The dealer was telling Void the truth, because the dope feels stronger than any he’s yet found in NYC. Fast as he can in the shape he’s in, he puts everything away and cleans himself up. He wants to be out of the toilet before the cops arrive, not wanting any more attention than he’s already going to have with a dead, overdosed friend on the floor. That’s already more than he wants.
He gets to the table as quickly as he can. Sure enough, Void is on the floor, half under the table, not moving. Thomas crouches down and shakes him. “Wake the hell up man, the cops are coming.” This has absolutely no effect, so he tries smacking him on the cheeks, one after the other. Again there’s nothing. Void’s tattooed face and lips are by now turning a weirder shade of blue, and Thomas can’t find any sign of breathing or a pulse. He pushes the table back, pulls Void’s body so he’s lying stretched out on his back, and considers giving him mouth to mouth resuscitation or even CPR. Luckily he doesn’t have to as he’s abruptly pushed aside by two eager paramedics, all bustle and business.
“Overdose,” says the one who pushed Thomas. “What’d he take?”
“He told me he was sick, and was going to score a bag. I think he only did one. That’s all the money he had, ten bucks.” Thomas is thinking that when the coke he himself shot in that speedball wears off, he’s also going to be very stoned, and doesn’t want to be dealing with the police. They’d arrived with the paramedics, and now they start to question him.
“Where’d he get it? You got any yourself, kid?” One bored cop asks.
“I don’t know where he got it, and no, I don’t.” Thomas sees no need for complete honesty here.
Down on the floor the paramedics aren’t having any more luck than had Thomas in getting Void to respond. One of them reaches into the box of medical supplies he’d brought in, and starts rummaging around.
“His girlfriend lives right across the street. I’m going to run see if she’s there, because I’m not going to the hospital with him. She should know anyway.” The cops agree it’s a good idea, so Thomas runs to her apartment. Finding her home, he quickly convinces her to come with him, explaining along the way what’s going on.
By the time they get back to the restaurant, the paramedic is holding a loaded hypodermic in his hand, preparing to administer it to Void.
“What’s that, Narcan?” Thomas asks.
“That’s right,” says the paramedic. “He’s a lucky guy.” He shoots the stuff into Void’s upper arm. “Thirty seconds, just wait. This stuff is magic.”
Thomas doesn’t think Void is going to feel so lucky when he wakes up. Yeah, he’s alive, but he’d just gotten straight. Now he’s going to be really sick. Narcan completely clears the system of any vestige of the drug and it’s effects, at least temporarily, leaving the patient agonizingly ill.
After exactly thirty seconds, Void’s eyes shoot open. The first words out of his mouth are, “I’m all right, I’m all right.” He’s not even aware he’s been dead, at least not immediately, but confusion is evident on his face. It’s obvious something is wrong. He looks up at the paramedics and cops. “Oh shit.”
“Just lie there for a minute, kid. Relax.” One of the paramedics tells Void, who’s struggling to get to his feet. “Give it a minute, you just had a close call.”
“So now what?” Thomas interrupts one of the cops, who’s making disparaging remarks about junkies and losers to his partner. “Is he going to be OK?”
“Yeah, he’ll be fine. They’ve got to take him in to the hospital ‘cause they gave him a shot. It’s the law. They work on you, you ride with them.” The cop doesn’t look at Thomas, so Thomas doesn’t say anything else.
Void is helped out of the door by the paramedics. Void’s girlfriend goes with him. Thomas can hear her soothing Void, giving comfort, and almost feels a pang of jealousy. He can’t imagine his girlfiend acting thus for him. The cops are speaking with the restaurant staff, writing in their little black books and ignoring him, so Thomas decides it’s definitely time for him to go.
No one pays him any mind as he picks up his bag and coat, and walks out the front door onto 1st Ave.
“Damn I’m glad I’m not Void right now,” he thinks, watching the ambulance drive away. Narcan does not look like a fun experience. If Void had been in a park somewhere, he wouldn’t have had to go through that. Most probably he would have simply slept through the dope, then woken up tomorrow sick, ready to start again. Which is of course exactly what’s going to happen. Thomas knows he’ll bump into Void again soon, sick as hell out looking for drugs. This close call won’t change a thing.
It doesn’t occur to Thomas how close he himself came to lying on the floor being treated by the paramedics.
Thomas shakes his head, then heads to Tompkins Square to do some more of his own stuff, stopping along the way to tell another couple of fiends he knows that “Rush is damned good today.”
Tompkins Sq. Park
Peace all,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 11:22 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route you take it

Jim, I did some research and my findings are as follows…
What is the difference between naltrexone and naloxone?
Functionally, they are the same type of drug. They compete with heroin at the receptor level and block the effect of heroin. Naloxone is administered intravenously and lasts for approximately 20 minutes. Naltrexone is administered orally (pill form) and can last for 1 to 2 days.
No  matter what name they use it is still some bad shit for addicts!
They are now using Naltrexone in alcoholism treatment!
Callie

> ATTACHMENT part 2 image/jpeg name=shooter2.jpg

> ATTACHMENT part 3 image/jpeg name=tompkinstable2.JPG
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From: Terrell Tye <trtye@gci.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] AnyoneFormer’done gone2Bupe
Date: July 25, 2004 at 6:09:24 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I know you guys don’t know me. I’ve only posted here a couple of times. But I was reading this and thought I might be able to contribute. I’ve tried tracking the original poster of this thread but I just can’t find it.  Jim, I think you were the one asking if any former done users had switched to bupe. I just did it this week. For those of you interested, this is the schedule/dosage/how I was feeling of the process:

(Starting at a varying 80-110 mg. methadone habit- 90 mostly but extra when I had a lot of shit to do)

Saturday   80 mgs  methadone

Sunday      70 mgs         ”

Monday     40 mgs        ”

Tues           nada  (no opiates- 3-4 10mg.valium)- started feeling bad around 2:00-3:00pm but doc told me                    that I needed  to be in serious WD and to wait until I really couldn’t bear it anymore.

Weds          felt like shit but still scared – had read too many stories of folks getting even sicker if they do                     Suboxone too soon and to definitely not take more than 1- 8mg pill on 1st day
4mg Suboxone  am & 3-4  10 mg. valium
4mg        ”           pm

Thurs          8mg        ”       8 am          very weak still
8mg        ”       4 pm
4mg        ”        7 pm

Friday         (2) 8mg           am
(1) 8mg           pm – feeling great by the pm – actually too damn great – went out to listen to
some live music – ended up getting totally shit-faced and not coming home till the wee hours.

Sat- Today  (2) 8mg           am – feeling wonderful esp. considering huge hangover
(1) 8mg           pm

So basically, Tues afternoon I started feeling bad (but it takes me longer than most to go into w.d.’s on methadone-slow metabolism, right? Weds. and Thurs. were the worst – but still no cramping, vomiting or the runs – just general feeling of malaise- chills and feeling feverish and absolute weakness. I did the valium to sleep through most of it. This is the 4th time I’ve kicked methadone in 5 years, each time while visiting in Alaska. The first time, with lots of hydrocodone (but my methadone habit was still relatively new). The next year, cold turkey – I’d tapered down to 10 mgs methadone and had been there for probably 2 months or more- I thought it’d be a breeze. WRONG. Ended up in the hospital for IV fluids because I’d puked and squirted every bit of water out of my body. The next summer I’d pre-ordered some .2 mg bupe (Temgesic) from online pharmacies in Thailand and India and went through it beautifully – no w.d.’s other than some weakness. I forgot to mention that I managed to stay clean each time for around 6-8 weeks. It would be after I’d returned to Nashville and old memories (and all those triggers) that amongst my depression, lack of any energy and all the unpaid bills and dirty house, that little voice says “Oh you can probably just get a few hydros to get all this work caught up” and you know the rest of the story. Well, I a year and 3 months ago I finally decided “Fuck Nashville, I’m moving to Alaska”- where I stayed active,  had no connections or ex-husbands to run into. Where I live in Alaska is 2- 1/2 hours to Anchorage where the nearest Meth clinic is. They are totally tight assed and won’t let you transfer your time, clean UA’s, etc. spent at your other clinic. It’s no take homes -period- for 90 days. I had every intention of detoxing again last summer after my move but I got into fixing up the place I moved into, you know the old- “it’s really a bad time to do it, I’ll wait till (fill in the blank) is over, then I’ll do it”. And of course there’s never a “good time” to detox off methadone. Anyway, between sympathetic doctors and my Nashville dealers I kept up the 80-110mg habit till this week.
I don’t plan on staying on the Suboxone for maintenance. As I recall from the previous detox with the Temgesic, it was a walk in the park coming off the bupe. I’ve since read it can be hard if you stay on it too long.
I also plan to do Iboga very soon.  I’ve purposely stayed away from NA or AA because I don’t want to meet other addicts up here  (to be honest I  could never get into 12 steps anyway). They’d just be able to introduce me to their old dealers and then I’ve got that extra temptation that I don’t have now.
Sorry this has been so long. I guess that’s why I don’t post much. I hoped this helped any of you considering it. I’ll be happy to keep you posted when I get off the Suboxone, if anyone’s interested. And thanks those of you that answered my last post.
Good luck to all, trtye
—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 1:19 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] AnyoneFormer’done gone2Bupe

Hey some good news.

A strange thing happeded today.  The first call I made to a doc said they do the bupe thing.  I asked if they used Subutex and they said no they used ??? and damn it I did not catch what she said.  There are two kinds of bupe Subutex and some other kind with the Narcan in it to stop users from shooting it up, just like the Talwin.  If anyone had problems with the Narcan causeing withdrawal please let me know.

I really hate going to new docs, filling out the forms, answering the questions, etc. but if I get the bupe and it helps with the depression I will be happy.  But as one person on the forum said that there are those clinics that just detox you for there is more money to be made than by maintaining you.  So I guess I will just have to go and play it by ear.  I have learned a lot on this forum, I am so glad it is here.  Good luck to everyone.

– JIM

 

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] off topic….thought for the day
Date: July 25, 2004 at 4:05:06 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

‘Callie,

Thanks for your donation. It is really sad that gov’t will pay thousands for 12 step treatment, but outlaws ibogaine.

You are a good soul.

Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] and smoking sessation
Date: July 25, 2004 at 3:57:52 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Randy,
May the Bwiti karma being very fucking willing for you (and me) and may the crick not rise.

Peace,
Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route you take it
Date: July 25, 2004 at 3:56:14 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston,

Thanks for the info about bupe and the liver.  My research has shown that HepC sufferers do fine with ibogaine as long as the virus isn’t too out of control at the time.
Also, anyone offering ibogaine should ask for a liver panel.

Peace,
sean

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] FAQ’s – Considering Ibogaine
Date: July 25, 2004 at 12:31:13 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Steven, I think that would be a great thing to do.
A lot of the same questions do get asked on the list
and putting up a faq on mindvox would be a good place
to start. The same as with the Keeping Clean I think
it didn’t take long to make it but its a nice document
that I show to people that says a lot of useful things
about recovery all in one place.

I like ibogaine uk but it would be great to maybe take
some of what nick wrote and include it as part of the
faq? I don’t know if its negative or not I think its
honest maybe a little too much on the cautius side but
I guess that was when alot of the ibogaine deaths
happened.

However its done it would be great to have it I think,
I love the mindvox site because its pretty but you can
find things 😉 with labels that make sense 🙂
Mindvox is beautiful but like playing a adventure
game, I know thats on purpose patrick 🙂 I am only
saying that what you all are doing with mindvox
ibogaine is the way to go, its really pretty to look
at and has things that are fun to read but you can
find information! please keep it that way! 🙂

Carla B

— Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Hi Steven,

I did something of my own a bit like this a few
years back, up at
http://www.ibogaine.co.uk/info.htm It does kind of
play on the negative a
bit, but I figured it was worth saying.

Best

Nick   www.ibogaine.co.uk

—– Original Message —–
From: “Steven Anker” <stevenanker@hotmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 12:37 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] FAQ’s – Considering Ibogaine

Howdy all,

An idea I’ve had simmering around for awhile…

How about a bunch of us putting something together
for mind-vox along the
lines of “Considering Ibogaine?”

Answer the most frequent questions and give advice
for those considering
taking ibogaine.  People new to the site could
have many of their
questions
answered. I think it would be good to have a
variety of voices. Carla,
Randy, Curtis, Patrick, Sara, Dave, Jon, Adam,
Nick, Howard etc… all
have
unique perspectives and it would be cool to have
them all in one place.
Not
to be exclusionary, but this needs to be done by
those who have tripped
the
iboga.

Perhaps getting people correctly prepped could
help with the efficacy of
ibo.

Patrick, is there anyway you could set something
up where people could
post
bio’s and pictures of themselves? I’m very curious
what everyone looks
like.
Carla, I have strong mental picture of you which
I’m sure is wrong. Is
this
something worth pursueing at all? One big happy
family. Just like Manson.

Any interest? Would it be helpful?

Best,

Steve

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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: its finally here!
Date: July 24, 2004 at 11:26:56 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m packing up and leaving my place at 4:00 for a 7:00 flight. Nervous? You bet. But excited like you I can’t even begin to describe. I can’t wait for to be up in the air and finally be on my way. Everyone is tip toeing around me thinking that I must be a mess with worry but strangely enough I’m not. I’m completely clam and just so determined to change my life from the inside out. My addiction to Meth is a nightmare and my illicit drug use is even worse leaving me with a feeling of total disgust and misery.  I’m incapable of living a life with any real joy as long as I continue to live like this. The craziest thing is that I used to love dope. I used to be hopelessly addicted to dope because I was in love with the way it made me feel. Now 10 years later, I hate the way it makes me feel and immediately after shelling out 100 bucks to feel anything at all, I am immediately reminded of how much I hate it and wrack my brain to figure out why the hell I did it to myself AGAIN.
I need for this to be it. I need to find out why I keep doing this to myself and break this miserable pattern for once and for all and live the life I’m capable of living, whatever that is. But this just has to be it. I mean I know I’m so much more than a rat that keeps hitting the button until it kills me. I have people who love me and who I love who this is making miserable as well as myself. This just has to be it no matter what. I’m so ready to start a new chapter in my life. That starts now.
I’ll drop you all a note when I get to my hotel room. Please keep a good thought for me. Thanks for all of your kind words and encouragement and I will have my laptop with me and will keep anyone who is interested up to date.
Thanks and God Bless.  -MC

Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org> wrote:

Does anyone know any ways of upping the odds that I can quit smoking as well as kicking King Kong’s ass when I get the treatment? That is the Bwiti karma willin’ and the creek don’t rise.     Paradise in the Catskills            Randy

Melatonin at night, especially when you wake up in the middle of the night to pee. The sublinguals–put them up between yr upper lip and gum after moistening. And smoke pot. Not much, but a couple tokes everytime you get the urge to smoke. BTW, the reason pot has no substantial withdrawals is that the cannabidiol is a glutamate antagonist, which means that every joint has a weak ibo-like effect. Very weak, but sufficient to block buildup of tolerance to THC. The melatonin prevents tolerance to the CBD, so you don’t get so much of the “chronic” effect that causes you to need to smoke pot all the time.

Dana/cnw

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – 50x more storage than other providers!

From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] quitting smoking
Date: July 24, 2004 at 9:47:55 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

That is really weak science Dana. It’s tantamount to saying that crack is not addictive because it has little physical signs and symptoms. try going several days without a doobie and see if your not stating ; ” I need a bone”

Ibogaine does NOT reduce or relieve nicotine cravings but may reduce nicotine withdrawal physical symptoms. Those who smoke cigarettes at the beginning of phase two of IBO tend to get nauseous. Perhaps Momma Iboga is telling us that Philip Morris is poison. Personally have no qualms with smoking pot but feel it can blunt the IBO experience which is best left pure. Post IBO pot initially appears to calm anxiety but it’s sum total is actually to increase anxiety and only reinforces the mind set which we wish to break which is SYMPTOM= SUBSTANCE.

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] quitting smoking
Date: July 24, 2004 at 8:05:22 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Does anyone know any ways of upping the odds that I can quit smoking as well as kicking King Kong’s ass when I get the treatment? That is the Bwiti karma willin’ and the creek don’t rise.     Paradise in the Catskills            Randy

Melatonin at night, especially when you wake up in the middle of the night to pee. The sublinguals–put them up between yr upper lip and gum after moistening. And smoke pot. Not much, but a couple tokes everytime you get the urge to smoke. BTW, the reason pot has no substantial withdrawals is that the cannabidiol is a glutamate antagonist, which means that every joint has a weak ibo-like effect. Very weak, but sufficient to block buildup of tolerance to THC. The melatonin prevents tolerance to the CBD, so you don’t get so much of the “chronic” effect that causes you to need to smoke pot all the time.

Dana/cnw

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] psychosis
Date: July 24, 2004 at 6:01:22 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/24/04 2:33:28 PM, jaegerca@student.ethz.ch writes:

<< hi everybody, this my first post on this list. does anyone know if
ibogaine will bring some relief to a psychotic mind? >>

Carlos,

Can you provide some greater detail as to how you define the psychotic mind?

Thanks

Howard

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] FAQ’s – Considering Ibogaine
Date: July 24, 2004 at 6:00:10 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/24/04 3:15:32 PM, nick227@tiscali.co.uk writes:

<< I did something of my own a bit like this a few years back, up at

http://www.ibogaine.co.uk/info.htm It does kind of play on the negative a

bit, but I figured it was worth saying. >>

Steven and Nick,

The manual for ibogaine therapy is somewhat directed towards a review of the
field.

Manual for Ibogaine Therapy
Screening, Safety, Monitoring & Aftercare
Second Revision
by
Howard S. Lotsof & Boaz Wachtel
Marc Emery, Geerte Frenken, Sara Glatt
Brian Mariano, Karl Naeher
Martin Polanko, Marko Resinovic
Nick Sandberg, Eric Taub
Samuel Waizmann, Hattie Wells

http://www.ibogaine.org/manual.html

The manual has a table of contents and the discussion section is also broken
down in the table of contents into its own sections.  I would also suggest
that anyone interested in ibogaine therapy review the links in the additional
document section.

I have been considering beginning the third revision of the Manual for some
time now that would include new topics or cover some topics in greater detail
such as visualization.

I have also been working on an Ibogaine Training Course.  I anticipate both
will be completed with the help of multiple authors within the next three
months.

Some adjunct projects are in the works and will be able to better inform you
about them within the next month. One project just completed by the Dora
Weiner Foundation is the Ibogaine Incident/Grievance Report Form,
http://www.doraweiner.incident.html

The Dora Weiner Projects are particularly directed towards patient issues
while the Ibogaine Dossier projects are more weighted towards providers.

I will be contacting invited authors to participate but, those interested may
also propose themselves by contacting me via private email.

Howard

Howard S. Lotsof
President
Dora Weiner Foundation
POB 10032
Staten Island, NY 10301-0032
USA
dir tel, 1 718 442-2754
dir fax, 1 718 442-1957
email, dwf123@earthlink.net
http://www.doraweiner.org

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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] psychosis
Date: July 24, 2004 at 5:47:14 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

It is very much possible, I think it is very individual and how a person is
dosed during the treatment. I have noticed that crack smoker have a greater
chance to get a psychotic attack after Iboga.
I don’t think that there is a scientific research done about psychosis post
ibogaine.
but then I don’t know what everybody else is doing.

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Sara Glatt [mailto:sara119@xs4all.nl]
Verzonden: zaterdag 24 juli 2004 23:39
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: RE: [ibogaine] psychosis

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Carlos Jäger [mailto:jaegerca@student.ethz.ch]
Verzonden: zaterdag 24 juli 2004 21:33
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: [ibogaine] psychosis

hi everybody, this my first post on this list. does anyone know if
ibogaine will bring some relief to a psychotic mind?

thanks

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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] psychosis
Date: July 24, 2004 at 5:39:21 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Carlos Jäger [mailto:jaegerca@student.ethz.ch]
Verzonden: zaterdag 24 juli 2004 21:33
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: [ibogaine] psychosis

hi everybody, this my first post on this list. does anyone know if
ibogaine will bring some relief to a psychotic mind?

thanks

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] FAQ’s – Considering Ibogaine
Date: July 24, 2004 at 4:14:52 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Steven,

I did something of my own a bit like this a few years back, up at
http://www.ibogaine.co.uk/info.htm It does kind of play on the negative a
bit, but I figured it was worth saying.

Best

Nick   www.ibogaine.co.uk

—– Original Message —–
From: “Steven Anker” <stevenanker@hotmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 12:37 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] FAQ’s – Considering Ibogaine

Howdy all,

An idea I’ve had simmering around for awhile…

How about a bunch of us putting something together for mind-vox along the
lines of “Considering Ibogaine?”

Answer the most frequent questions and give advice for those considering
taking ibogaine.  People new to the site could have many of their
questions
answered. I think it would be good to have a variety of voices. Carla,
Randy, Curtis, Patrick, Sara, Dave, Jon, Adam, Nick, Howard etc… all
have
unique perspectives and it would be cool to have them all in one place.
Not
to be exclusionary, but this needs to be done by those who have tripped
the
iboga.

Perhaps getting people correctly prepped could help with the efficacy of
ibo.

Patrick, is there anyway you could set something up where people could
post
bio’s and pictures of themselves? I’m very curious what everyone looks
like.
Carla, I have strong mental picture of you which I’m sure is wrong. Is
this
something worth pursueing at all? One big happy family. Just like Manson.

Any interest? Would it be helpful?

Best,

Steve

_________________________________________________________________
Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/

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From: Carlos Jäger <jaegerca@student.ethz.ch>
Subject: [ibogaine] psychosis
Date: July 24, 2004 at 3:33:11 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hi everybody, this my first post on this list. does anyone know if ibogaine will bring some relief to a psychotic mind?

thanks

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] AnyoneFormer’done gone2Bupe
Date: July 24, 2004 at 3:15:30 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/24/2004 9:23:13 AM Central Daylight Time, BiscuitBoy714@aol.com writes:
I believed what they told me about putting it under my tongue too. I was told that if you put it under there the naltrexone would have no effect, only if you tried to shoot it and so on and so on about the stomach acids and all. I can tell you most emphatically that that is bullshit. I tried one after I went back on meth dissolving it under my tongue so the naltrexone would have no effect. I got that I wish I hadn’t done that shit feeling in about 5 minutes.

Yep, you are very correct! Makes you sick as hell! Doesn’t matter if you take it po (by mouth), sl (under the tongue or sublingually), IV (intravenously) or IM (intramuscularly) IT WILL MAKE YOU SICK with IMMEDIATE withdrawals!! They are trying to sell the Buprenorphine as the new alternative to Methadone for addicts and also sounds lately like they are pushing it as antidepressant.
You have to stick up for yourself when you talk to your Physician. You are paying lots of cash for their treatment. If they will not listen to you and consider your ideas, find another Doctor.
As for now, I am happy with my Methadone until it is time for my Ibogaine journey in a few months. I have been a guinea pig one too many times! 😉
Callie

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] and smoking sessation
Date: July 24, 2004 at 2:50:52 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

there are multiple anecdotal reports of people dropping smoking post-ibogaine.
_.dh

Does anyone know any ways of upping the odds that I can quit smoking as well as kicking King Kong’s ass when I get the treatment? That is the Bwiti karma willin’ and the creek don’t rise.     Paradise in the Catskills            Randy

From: Germán DC <gcaldelas@fibertel.com.ar>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] and smoking sessation
Date: July 24, 2004 at 2:10:59 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Randy
yeah, go to Atma Nidhi Ashram – 371 Brickman Road,
talk with somebody there and ask her/him to guide you to the statue of Baba Nityananda, do three laps there and go do your Ibo treatment.
odds´ll increase in your favor.
then if you want sing some
om namah shivaya

regards
germándc

—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 10:40 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] and smoking sessation

Does anyone know any ways of upping the odds that I can quit smoking as well as kicking King Kong’s ass when I get the treatment? That is the Bwiti karma willin’ and the creek don’t rise.     Paradise in the Catskills            Randy

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] off topic….thought for the day
Date: July 24, 2004 at 1:23:49 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Silent gratitude isn’t much good to anyone.

–  Gladys Browyn Stern

Hope everyone has a GREAT weekend! Iam grateful for you people!
BTW, I added 50 bucks to my ‘Ibogaine fund’ yesterday! I can’t wait until it is me anticipating my journey in a few days!

Peace out, Callie

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] AnyoneFormer’done gone2Bupe
Date: July 24, 2004 at 11:39:50 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/24/04 9:23:33 AM, BiscuitBoy714@aol.com writes:

<< I tried one after I went back on meth
dissolving it under my tongue so the naltrexone would have no effect. I got
that I wish
I hadn’t done that shit feeling in about 5 minutes. I have never felt so bad
in all the kicks that I have done in all of my junkified career. I was very
much relieved to find out that it only lasted for about 3 or 4 hours but that
damn sure felt like 3 or 4 days. Bad Bad mistake on my part. I will never
ever
believe what the main stream med. profession has to say about treatment or
addiction or the medicine that goes with it until I find out for my self.
Sorry
about the long post but I hope to save someone a whole lot of grief       >>

Randy,

I can’t say whether it is true or not but, at the buprenorphine training held
at the California Society of Addiction Medicine it was indicated that if you
swallowed saliva during the absorption of the sublingual suboxone dose that
not all of the naloxone would be destroyed by stomach acids.  That is why they
tell you not to swallow the tab but, let it dissolve under your tongue.

Howard

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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Fwd: A Picture Share!
Date: July 24, 2004 at 10:56:56 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thank Preston.

I think you all look very Cool. It was a nice introduction.

Sara

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Verzonden: vrijdag 23 juli 2004 23:07
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [ibogaine] Fwd: A Picture Share!

And Sara, you have a great smile and happy eyes.
Love this photos too.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 3:38 PM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Fwd: A Picture Share!

And this is my picture.

Sara

Van: Sapphirestardus@aol.com [mailto:Sapphirestardus@aol.com]
Verzonden: woensdag 21 juli 2004 21:36
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [ibogaine] Fwd: A Picture Share!

Mark, the picture is fine.

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] AnyoneFormer’done gone2Bupe
Date: July 24, 2004 at 10:22:32 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Fellow Mindvoxians Unite!!  I had to see what that would look like. hehe O yea, I have had a lot going on and I am way behind with my E mails so I am late with a reply but I think its important so here goes. I tied the switch about 5 months ago. I quit taking meth cold turkey (60 mgs.) just dalmane to help me sleep, and thats another story, for 5 days then went to the Dr.s office. He titrated me with 2mg bup .5 mg naltrexone until I reached 8mg. bup. 2mg. naltrexone then sent me home ignoring my thoughts about it and suggestions. I did everything that was explained as the way to do it i.e. putting it under my tongue and so forth. Then we tried more, tried less, all the while dissolving it under my tongue to no avail. I never got comfortable, never. I believed what they told me about putting it under my tongue too. I was told that if you put it under there the naltrexone would have no effect, only if you tried to shoot it and so on and so on about the stomach acids and all. I can tell you most emphatically that that is bullshit. I tried one after I went back on meth dissolving it under my tongue so the naltrexone would have no effect. I got that I wish I hadn’t done that shit feeling in about 5 minutes. I have never felt so bad in all the kicks that I have done in all of my junkified career. I was very much relieved to find out that it only lasted for about 3 or 4 hours but that damn sure felt like 3 or 4 days. Bad Bad mistake on my part. I will never ever believe what the main stream med. profession has to say about treatment or addiction or the medicine that goes with it until I find out for my self. Sorry about the long post but I hope to save someone a whole lot of grief            Randy

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran
Date: July 24, 2004 at 9:44:29 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I got arrested the last two times I was there.<

What a drag too, no? I hate getting arrested, but I suppose that’s a silly
comment that could go unsaid, eh?
The cops getting involved simply seems to usually make things worse, not
better, at least in my own experiences.
When we will ever learn, and stop electing the bozos that insist that
things are peachy keen and we can continue the way we are in the directions
we’re going, and not only foreign wars but war here at home on some drugs
and ourselves are also really neato.
Arrested for buying a drugs- that just seems so WEIRD to me, not to
mention EVIL, but then, I guess I’m special or something.
SIgh.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: UUSEAN@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 8:39 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran

Hi Preston,

Everytime I get drunk, I want to smoke rock.  Of course with the hepC, I
consume little to no booze these days…and I’m not smoking rock either.
Hmmmm.

The urge for H though exists while I’m stone cold sober.  Although not
having at least afew drinks before heading to Washington Heights has helped
keep me out of there. I got arrested the last two times I was there.

Sean

Sean

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] and smoking sessation
Date: July 24, 2004 at 9:40:08 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Does anyone know any ways of upping the odds that I can quit smoking as well as kicking King Kong’s ass when I get the treatment? That is the Bwiti karma willin’ and the creek don’t rise.     Paradise in the Catskills            Randy

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route you take it
Date: July 24, 2004 at 9:32:45 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Just to let you know Jim, (see bottom of this note for more info on Bup),
My name is Preston Peet, first name being Preston. While I might answer
to Peet, it’s not what I call myself, so you don’t have to be formal and use
my last name- unless you put a big Mr. in front of it. Then I might think
yer talking to my dad though, so Preston will work just fine. Thank you.
;-)))
Yer right too that methadone, from my own personal experienc, is much
nastier to kick.
The pain doc I see shares office space with another pain doc, who 5
years ago, almost 6 now, first saw me for pain upon recommendation of my
regular doc. I being the honest addict I am, and not wanting to be given any
drug that might counterdict the methadone, told him I was then on methadone.
He wound up giving me three injections, one every other week, directly into
my spine with valium being the only drug given to relax me prior to
injecting me, and a topical (it felt like) shot to numb the skin above my
spine (but not my spine itself- as was obvious when the needle went in-
Ouch!). These injections did nothing for the relentless pain, but after 3,
the max he was willing to give me with no visible results, he told me there
wasn’t anything else he could do for me, that I should “eat better and gain
weight” as that would help build muscle and in turn that’d help me support
my spine better. He was completely unwilling to prescribe anything for the
pain, the reason I initially went to see him.
So I spent the next nearly 6 years not going to see them at the pain
clinic but going to see my own doc instead. But last year it was getting
really ridiculous, in that I was going through my pain meds way too fast and
they still weren’t helping enough. My doc kept saying, “you’ve got to go to
the specialist because the DEA will flag me if I up your dose any higher.”
So I did, after running out of my month’s supply in less than 2 weeks.
Luckily for me, when I went in I happened to see the other doc, the one I’ve
now been seeing for a little over a year, who treated my pain seriously and
gave me what I needed and pays close attention to me and my complaints.
But a few months ago, I went in a couple days early when my own pain doc
wasn’t in, and saw one of the intern types, who after writing out my script
for the one drug realized that the coupons I’d been getting for Avinza
weren’t being accepted any longer, said, “let me get Dr. Thomas, and maybe
he’ll be able to suggest something else.” Right after she walked out I
though, “oh shit, he’s the one who didn’t help me last time.”
Sure enough, the first thing this bozo did when walking in was tell me
he would have treated me in different fashion than my own pain doc was, then
asked me, “are you selling your pills? No offense but are you?”
Understanding the question but still offended due to the silliness of my
selling any of my much needed and still not quite enough drugs, I said no.
He then said he was going to have to talk to my doc and see about
putting me on something else, as he reached into the shelf being him to pull
out the previously mentioned flier for bup.
I had already told this guy I had Hep C. but he was a bozo and pain no
attention to what I told him.
(He also took back the script the intern had already written and wrote
one for just 6 days rather than the 3 weeks I usually got, forcing me to
come back in less than a week and pay another $80 bucks for a simply office
visit- that doesn’t even begin to cover the cost of scripts.)
So after I left and got home I pulled out the flier for bup/naloxone, and
read it.
The first thing it says it that Bup is a narcotic and can be diverted to
street sales, which puzzled the shit outta me as that was his biggest
concern supposedly- why would he change my script due to a stated fear I
could be selling my drugs to another script I could sell just as easily?
Then I read the whole page where it says that Bup does holy hell to a
liver and that if on Bup we should pay attention to all sorts of symptoms
that show it’s causing yet more damage to a damaged liver.
Why the hell would he feel the need to take me off a drug that I know is
helping me to put me on another that the only selling point to is that it is
a drug to help withdrawals while treatig pain too? Seems a bit odd to me
that he is pushing a drug that is just as addictive and a LOT worse for my
body. Are doctors, or this doctor anyway, so frightened by DrugWar
propaganda and scare tactics that he/they really feel that Bup is “better”
than a more natural, less toxic on the liver opiate based medication?
Yes, it seem so if my own experiences are any indication.
Anyway, Bup doesn’t seem all that safe either nor well tested, as Dr.
Andrew Byrne in Australia pointed out recently:

It is worrying that the
American FDA has approved the marketing of the combination product (bup and
naltrexone, and naloxone) even
before research of this nature had been established. One wonders if they
have different standards for drugs used in the treatment of addiction.<

This is clipped from the comments about Bup you can find just below here.
So I hope this give syou some more idea of Bup and the mentality pushing
this stuff. I think it goes hand in hand with the same mentality that pushed
methadone as opposed to simply PRESCRIBING HEROIN, a much less toxic, more
effective, all around better drug.
But then, that would not only be more humane, it would make sense, and
we can’t have that now can we? I mean, we are waging a war on some drugs and
users, right? Soooo.
Peace,
Preston

Pharmacokinetics of high-dose buprenorphine following single
administration of sublingual tablet formulations in opioid naïve healthy
male volunteers under a naltrexone block. McAleer SD, Mills RJ, Polack
T, Hussain T, Rolan PE, Gibbs AD, Mullins FGP, Hussein Z. Drug Alc
Depend (2003) 72; 1:75-83

Dear Colleagues,
At last we have some real data on buprenorphine half lives, absorption
and effects from healthy volunteer studies. These researchers, who were
working for the manufacturers, have taken 35 healthy males and given
substantial doses of buprenorphine after 50 -150mg naltrexone ‘block’.
They then measured clinical and blood parameters at regular intervals
for up to 3 days in an in-patient setting. Techniques for measuring
blood levels of buprenorphine are still being developed and are not
generally available in clinical practice. This makes patient history and
clinical observation even more important than otherwise. A liquid
chromatographic tandem mass spectrometric (LC-MS/MS) assay was developed
by these researchers and it was validated for the measurement of
buprenorphine and nor-buprenorphine, its metabolite, in blood.

Mean half life was found to be 26 hours with a wide range from 9 to 69.
Interestingly, these authors have confirmed some observations in
clinical practice including highly variable half lives and the
‘bi-exponential’ decay sometimes reported by patients. Some had a
‘secondary peak’ at about 10 hours from dosing. The authors report that
some had higher levels following meals and propose ‘entero-hepatic
recirculation’ in some cases. Maximum or ‘peak’ levels occurred between
30 minutes and 3 hours.

The addition of naloxone in the sublingual preparation made no
difference to blood levels. The time taken for the tablets to dissolve
were similar for all dose levels from 2 to 16mg (range 6-12 min) and
were no different for the combination product. It is worrying that the
American FDA has approved the marketing of the combination product even
before research of this nature had been established. One wonders if they
have different standards for drugs used in the treatment of addiction.

A weakness of the study was that it did not examine levels in on-going
treatment, but just individual single doses. Thus is it more relevant to
the initiation period, which is still a major problem for some patients.
There were no opioid effects using the naltrexone block at between 50
and 150mg doses prior to opioid administration.

comments by Andrew Byrne ..

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dr Andrew Byrne,
Medical Practitioner, Dependency Medicine,
75 Redfern Street, Redfern,
New South Wales, 2016, Australia
Email – ajbyrneATozemail.com.au
Tel (61 – 2) 9319 5524 Fax 9318 0631
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 8:57 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route
you take it

Hi Peet,

Thanks Peet, very much.  I don’t believe everything I read so I like to get
people’s opinions or learn from their experiences.  That’s what I was trying
to find out.  I know that you know back in the 60’s methadone was suppose to
be eaiser to kick than H.  There is not one person I know who believes, that
including many docs.

I see the suboxone doc this Wed. and I will see how things go and take it
from there.  At least now I have something to think about or ask him.  BTW,
I asked at the drugstore how much the Subutex pills are and they are $ 6
each for the 8 mg.  Thanks for your imput, it is appreciated.

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Jim Hadey >What I want to know if it is in Subutex, <

According to the flier I have in my hands right now from the company, no it
is not in Subutex- that contains “only the medicine burprenorphine” while
Suboxone contines both bup and naloxone. Both Subutex and Suboxone can cause
fairly severe side effects if the flier is any indication.
And, it IS NOT GOOD TO TAKE IF YOU HAVE HEP C!!!!!
Peace,
Preston

.
—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 2:50 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route
you take it

Hi all,

I know the difference between Naloxone and Naltrexone, Narcan (Naloxone) is
shorter acting and is shot up. What I want to know if you take it via mouth
will it make you sick?

They put it i! t Talwin (Narcon or Naloxone) to stop people from shooting it
up. What I want to know if it is in Subutex, which it is, will it also
make you sick by taking it via mouth or under the tongue? It is not suppose
to. But I would like to be sure. Like did bupe or Subutex cause anyone to
go into w/d by placing it under the tongue? I probably will not use smack
for the next few days but am taking quite a bit of Lortab.

Thanks for any help,

– JIM

Preston Peet wrote:
Naloxone is administered intravenously and lasts for approximately 20
minutes.<

This is Narcan, right, this Naloxone?

No matter what name they use it is still some bad shit for addicts!<
Other than for the fa ct it can and has saved a number of lives, I agree in
that Narcan is not a pleasent drug to be given as an opiate addict, or so
I’ve been lead to believe from seeing it given right in front of me- a few
here may even be able! to give us even more first hand accounts that I have
in the following. I’ve probably posted this before, but so what? There are a
few newish subscribers who may not have seen this, so I post it again, at
risk of repeating myself and in hopes of entertaining some of you:
snip-
“What’s that, Narcan?” Thomas asks.
“That’s right,” says the paramedic. “He’s a lucky guy.” He shoots the stuff
into Void’s upper arm. “Thirty seconds, just wait. This stuff is magic.”
Thomas doesn’t think Void is going to feel so lucky when he wakes up. Yeah,
he’s alive, but he’d just gotten straight. Now he’s going to be really sick.
<
end snip-
Full story:
http://www.drugwar.com/PrestonPeetIndex.shtm
Narcan-
Bringing the Dead Back to Life
chapter 20 of “Something in the Way”
copyright 2001
by Preston Peet

posted Halloween, 2002
“Why is it whenever I’m broke they’re everywhere, but when I’ve got cash, I
can’t find anyone?”
“Yeah wel! l, at least you’ve got money. All I got are these two lousy
videos.
Oh, hold on a second.”
Thomas watches his friend Void run over to a couple of fences standing by
St. Marks, and 2nd Ave., and try to sell them the videotapes, to no avail.
Thomas was exiting a building at the corner of Lafayette and Houston Streets
after selling some freshly-stolen Shitake mushrooms as Magic mushrooms,
calling them “Colorado Gold Tops.” Some guys he’d approached on their way to
a club near Fourteenth St. the night before had given him a business card
with their work number on it, telling him to call after Thomas had mentioned
he could get really good mushrooms. As soon as he’d woken up this morning,
he’d run to a phone and given them a call. Setting up the deal had been
little trouble. Thomas plays to his victims’ greed, offering them deals
better than any they’ll know of anywhere, yet not so much better that the
vics get suspicious. He depends on this kind ! of scam for almost his entire
livelihood. From ! necessity he’s gotten very good at separating people from
their money.
Stepping out the office building’s front door, flush with the feeling of
success and a good sum of cash, Thomas’ mind was focused on going to score.
He’d not seen Void standing there until he’d literally bumped into him.
“Hey, what’s up Void? ‘Scuse me, I’m on a mission. Didn’t see you.” Void
seemed to be just standing there. “What are you doing, spanging?”
“Oh no, I need to sell these movies.” Void held out the films, still in
their new, shrink-wrapped boxes. “I’m really sick. I need to get straight,
bad. I’m gonna come with you, ’cause hopefully by the time you score, I’ll
have sold these.”
Thomas hadn’t been so sure of that, and he’s still not too sure, but he
likes Void. Thomas decides that he’ll help get him straight if Void can’t
sell the videos. If it comes to that. Thomas doesn’t say this aloud, as
there’s the c! hance Void’ll pull it off, but won’t try as hard if he thinks
he’s already covered.
Everyone on the street has their own scam, their own game they play to get
what they need. It’s deadly real to the people playing, never feeling much
like a game to Thomas anymore. He just happens to make a bit more money than
most with his particular scam, enabling him to build a bigger habit.
Void rejoins him. They continue walking down St. Marks to Tompkins Sq.,
heading through to the opposite side of the park. Unbelievably, none of the
spots they pass are open. There’s nobody out doing any selling. Void doesn’t
mind as he hasn’t sold the tapes yet, but Thomas is pissed. There’d been
dealers out and about not one hour before as he’d been on his way to sell
the shrooms. Now there’s no one.
“What about 13th Street? Rush?” Void asks. “How’s that been?”
“It hasn’t been so good the last few days, garbage really.” Thomas answers.
“I don’t know if they’re even! open yet. It’s only what, Two o’clock,
right?”
Thomas doesn’t want to walk over to 13th Street. Walking is beginning to be
a chore. He can feel the lack of dope in him, draining his energy reserves.
Void is even worse off, but therefore more willing to put the effort into
going the four blocks out of the way. There’s nothing for it except to go
along, and Thomas does, grudgingly.
They head straight up 10th St. to 1st Ave., and turn right. At 12th, one
block before they reach the spot, Void unloads the two tapes to someone at
an incense table, making himself the ten bucks he needs for a bag. Thomas is
amazed. He hadn’t expected Void to do it, not after failing the entire walk.
“Void, why don’t you go get the dope while I go around the block and score
some coke? We’ll meet at the Polish restaurant, Christine’s, between 12th
and 13th Streets.”
“Sure, how many do you want?”
“Get me four,” Thomas says handing him forty dollars. “Hurry up.”Normally he
wouldn’t trust someone with his cash, having been burned a
number of times before, but he knows Void pretty well. The two of them are
as close to being friends as people can get and still be strung out, and
besides, if Void knows he’s going to get some coke, he’ll be there. He’s a
fiend who would rather get both.
Like his now-dead friend Dan had been once, Void is another rare find.
The coke store Thomas goes to is on 12th St., just across Ave. A. It only
takes him 5 minutes to get there, conduct his business, and get back to
Christine’s. He arrives almost the same moment as Void, and they walk in
together.
Neither of them look too respectable. The restaurant staff eye them both
with suspicion and just a bit of revulsion, but no one stops them from
taking a seat at a table in the dining area.
“Let me go first, man,” Void says as soon as they are seated. “I’m really
sick. I’m going to throw up right here if I don’t do a shot soon.! ”
It’s not a lot different for Thomas, who can feel his stomach clenching and
bubbling in anticipation. But he knows Void is in far worse shape so agrees
to wait at the table for Void to go to the toilet first. One of them has to
wait with all their bags while the other gets straight.
“Yeah, all right already, just go.”
“The guy said this is a new batch, that it’s very good, and strong,” Void
says under his breath.
“Yeah, they always say that it’s the best. You know that. It’d be nice
though if it’s better than what they’ve had recently, that’s for sure.”
Thomas isn’t too hopeful. As long as it gets him straight, he doesn’t much
care. “Hurry up. Don’t take forever, ’cause I want to go too.”
“Can I have some coke for my shot?” Void asks, still not moving.
“Hell no. I’ll give you some later, but if you do it now, I’ll be out here
an hour waiting for you. Fuck that.” There’s no anger in his voice, it’s
just that Thomas knows how it is on coke sometimes. “I promise, I’ll give
you some a little later. Now go, hurry up.”
Void goes to the bathroom, leaving Thomas at the table. A waitress comes
over right after Void walks away, so to keep the place happy, and to feed
the both of them a little something, Thomas orders two soups and coffees. By
the time Void comes back to the table, Thomas is almost finished with his
soup and very impatient.
“About fucking time, Void.” Thomas snarls as Void tries to pull out a chair.
He misjudges the distance, pulls it too far, then sits in such a way as to
send both it and himself crashing to the floor.
Thomas can’t help it, and laughs out loud. Still chuckling, he bends down
and gives Void a hand up. As he lifts, he notices Void is not responding
well, that his eyes are way fucked up, glassy and very pinned.
“Hey, you’re not going to nod here at the table and get us thrown out, are
you?” He watches Void struggling to keep his eyes open. “You ok?”
“Oh, come on man, you know me, I’m good. Go ahead.” Void slurs out as he
picks up his coffee, sloshing a third of it onto the table.
Thomas can’t wait any longer. He has to trust that Void will be OK, and goes
to take his turn. The toilet stalls are well used by regular customers of
the dope spot around the corner. Thomas is frequently one of those. He knows
the restaurant well, knows he should have time to relax and go slow without
having a manager in too quickly. He gets out his stuff and mixes up a shot
in short order. Right as he has the vein, just about to boot, there comes a
firm knock on the door of the stall, then an older man’s heavily accented
voice.
“Hey! That your friend at the table? He dead! We call Police, they coming
now. You hurry!”
Thomas pushes in the shot before he realizes what the old guy said. Then as
the drugs take hold the old guy’s words sink in, giving Thomas the
simultaneous rush of the incredibly! strong drugs and the disbelief and
shock
at what’s just been said to him through the closed toilet stall door. The
coke rush barely tops the dope. The dealer was telling Void the truth,
because the dope feels stronger than any he’s yet found in NYC. Fast as he
can in the shape he’s in, he puts everything away and cleans himself up. He
wants to be out of the toilet before the cops arrive, not wanting any more
attention than he’s already going to have with a dead, overdosed friend on
the floor. That’s already more than he wants.
He gets to the table as quickly as he can. Sure enough, Void is on the
floor, half under the table, not moving. Thomas crouches down and shakes
him. “Wake the hell up man, the cops are coming.” This has absolutely no
effect, so he tries smacking him on the cheeks, one after the other. Again
there’s nothing. Void’s tattooed face and lips are by now turning a weirder
shade of blue, and Thomas can’t find any sign of breath! ing or a pulse. He
pushes the table back, pulls Void’s body so he’s lying stretched out on his
back, and considers giving him mouth to mouth resuscitation or even CPR.
Luckily he doesn’t have to as he’s abruptly pushed aside by two eager
paramedics, all bustle and business.
“Overdose,” says the one who pushed Thomas. “What’d he take?”
“He told me he was sick, and was going to score a bag. I think he only did
one. That’s all the money he had, ten bucks.” Thomas is thinking that when
the coke he himself shot in that speedball wears off, he’s also going to be
very stoned, and doesn’t want to be dealing with the police. They’d arrived
with the paramedics, and now they start to question him.
“Where’d he get it? You got any yourself, kid?” One bored cop asks.
“I don’t know where he got it, and no, I don’t.” Thomas sees no need for
complete honesty here.
Down on the floor the paramedics aren’t having any more luck than had Thomas
in getting Void! to respond. One of them reaches into the box of medical
supplies he’d brought in, and starts rummaging around.
“His girlfriend lives right across the street. I’m going to run see if she’s
there, because I’m not going to the hospital with him. She should know
anyway.” The cops agree it’s a good idea, so Thomas runs to her apartment.
Finding her home, he quickly convinces her to come with him, explaining
along the way what’s going on.
By the time they get back to the restaurant, the paramedic is holding a
loaded hypodermic in his hand, preparing to administer it to Void.
“What’s that, Narcan?” Thomas asks.
“That’s right,” says the paramedic. “He’s a lucky guy.” He shoots the stuff
into Void’s upper arm. “Thirty seconds, just wait. This stuff is magic.”
Thomas doesn’t think Void is going to feel so lucky when he wakes up. Yeah,
he’s alive, but he’d just gotten straight. Now he’s going to be really sick.
Narcan completely clears the system! of any vestige of the drug and it’s
effects, at least temporarily, leaving the patient agonizingly ill.
After exactly thirty seconds, Void’s eyes shoot open. The first words out of
his mouth are, “I’m all right, I’m all right.” He’s not even aware he’s been
dead, at least not immediately, but confusion is evident on his face. It’s
obvious something is wrong. He looks up at the paramedics and cops. “Oh
shit.”
“Just lie there for a minute, kid. Relax.” One of the paramedics tells Void,
who’s struggling to get to his feet. “Give it a minute, you just had a close
call.”
“So now what?” Thomas interrupts one of the cops, who’s making disparaging
remarks about junkies and losers to his partner. “Is he going to be OK?”
“Yeah, he’ll be fine. They’ve got to take him in to the hospital ’cause they
gave him a shot. It’s the law. They work on you, you ride with them.” The
cop doesn’t look at Thomas, so Thomas doesn’t say anything else.
Void is helpe! d out of the door by the paramedics. Void’s girlfriend goes
with him. Thomas can hear her soothing Void, giving comfort, and almost feel
s a pang of jealousy. He can’t imagine his girlfiend acting thus for him.
The cops are speaking with the restaurant staff, writing in their little
black books and ignoring him, so Thomas decides it’s definitely time for him
to go.
No one pays him any mind as he picks up his bag and coat, and walks out the
front door onto 1st Ave.
“Damn I’m glad I’m not Void right now,” he thinks, watching the ambulance
drive away. Narcan does not look like a fun experience. If Void had been in
a park somewhere, he wouldn’t have had to go through that. Most probably he
would have simply slept through the dope, then woken up tomorrow sick, ready
to start again. Which is of course exactly what’s going to happen. Thomas
knows he’ll bump into Void again soon, sick as hell out looking for drugs.
This close call won’t change a thi! ng.
It doesn’t occur to Thomas how close he himself came to lying on the floor
being treated by the paramedics.
Thomas shakes his head, then heads to Tompkins Square to do some more of his
own stuff, stopping along the way to tell another couple of fiends he knows
that “Rush is damned good today.”

Tompkins Sq. Park
Peace all,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 11:22 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route you
take it

Jim, I did some research and my findings are as follows…
What is the difference between naltrexone and naloxone?
Functionally, they are the same type of drug. They compete with heroin at
the receptor level and block the effect of heroin. Naloxone is administered
intravenously and lasts for approximately 20 minutes. Naltrexone is
administered orally (pill form) and can last for 1 to 2 days.
No matter what name they use it is still some bad shit for addicts!
They are now using Naltrexone in alcoholism treatment!
Callie

ATTACHMENT part 2 image/jpeg name=shooter2.jpg

ATTACHMENT part 3 image/jpeg name=tompkinstable2.JPG

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From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] *Sorelmathers*Re: mcorcoran
Date: July 24, 2004 at 9:14:24 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Good Morning Jason. Haven’t spoke to you in a while. What is the difference in experience between extract and the HCL.? Is is the strength? What do you feel with extract and do you have visuals and auditury?

Thanks Jason,
Julian

From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route you take it
Date: July 24, 2004 at 8:57:22 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Peet,

Thanks Peet, very much.  I don’t believe everything I read so I like to get people’s opinions or learn from their experiences.  That’s what I was trying to find out.  I know that you know back in the 60’s methadone was suppose to be eaiser to kick than H.  There is not one person I know who believes, that including many docs.

I see the suboxone doc this Wed. and I will see how things go and take it from there.  At least now I have something to think about or ask him.  BTW, I asked at the drugstore how much the Subutex pills are and they are $ 6 each for the 8 mg.  Thanks for your imput, it is appreciated.

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Jim Hadey >What I want to know if it is in Subutex, <

According to the flier I have in my hands right now from the company, no it
is not in Subutex- that contains “only the medicine burprenorphine” while
Suboxone contines both bup and naloxone. Both Subutex and Suboxone can cause
fairly severe side effects if the flier is any indication.
And, it IS NOT GOOD TO TAKE IF YOU HAVE HEP C!!!!!
Peace,
Preston

.
—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 2:50 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route
you take it

Hi all,

I know the difference between Naloxone and Naltrexone, Narcan (Naloxone) is
shorter acting and is shot up. What I want to know if you take it via mouth
will it make you sick?

They put it it Talwin (Narcon or Naloxone) to stop people from shooting it
up. What I want to know if it is in Subutex, which it is, will it also
make you sick by taking it via mouth or under the tongue? It is not suppose
to. But I would like to be sure. Like did bupe or Subutex cause anyone to
go into w/d by placing it under the tongue? I probably will not use smack
for the next few days but am taking quite a bit of Lortab.

Thanks for any help,

– JIM

Preston Peet wrote:
>Naloxone is administered intravenously and lasts for approximately 20
minutes.<

This is Narcan, right, this Naloxone?

>No matter what name they use it is still some bad shit for addicts!<
Other than for the fa ct it can and has saved a number of lives, I agree in
that Narcan is not a pleasent drug to be given as an opiate addict, or so
I’ve been lead to believe from seeing it given right in front of me- a few
here may even be able to give us even more first hand accounts that I have
in the following. I’ve probably posted this before, but so what? There are a
few newish subscribers who may not have seen this, so I post it again, at
risk of repeating myself and in hopes of entertaining some of you:
snip-
>”What’s that, Narcan?” Thomas asks.
“That’s right,” says the paramedic. “He’s a lucky guy.” He shoots the stuff
into Void’s upper arm. “Thirty seconds, just wait. This stuff is magic.”
Thomas doesn’t think Void is going to feel so lucky when he wakes up. Yeah,
he’s alive, but he’d just gotten straight. Now he’s going to be really sick.
<
end snip-
Full story:
http://www.drugwar.com/PrestonPeetIndex.shtm
Narcan-
Bringing the Dead Back to Life
chapter 20 of “Something in the Way”
copyright 2001
by Preston Peet

posted Halloween, 2002
“Why is it whenever I’m broke they’re everywhere, but when I’ve got cash, I
can’t find anyone?”
“Yeah well, at least you’ve got money. All I got are these two lousy videos.
Oh, hold on a second.”
Thomas watches his friend Void run over to a couple of fences standing by
St. Marks, and 2nd Ave., and try to sell them the videotapes, to no avail.
Thomas was exiting a building at the corner of Lafayette and Houston Streets
after selling some freshly-stolen Shitake mushrooms as Magic mushrooms,
calling them “Colorado Gold Tops.” Some guys he’d approached on their way to
a club near Fourteenth St. the night before had given him a business card
with their work number on it, telling him to call after Thomas had mentioned
he could get really good mushrooms. As soon as he’d woken up this morning,
he’d run to a phone and given them a call. Setting up the deal had been
little trouble. Thomas plays to his victims’ greed, offering them deals
better than any they’ll know of anywhere, yet not so much better that the
vics get suspicious. He depends on this kind of scam for almost his entire
livelihood. From ! necessity he’s gotten very good at separating people from
their money.
Stepping out the office building’s front door, flush with the feeling of
success and a good sum of cash, Thomas’ mind was focused on going to score.
He’d not seen Void standing there until he’d literally bumped into him.
“Hey, what’s up Void? ‘Scuse me, I’m on a mission. Didn’t see you.” Void
seemed to be just standing there. “What are you doing, spanging?”
“Oh no, I need to sell these movies.” Void held out the films, still in
their new, shrink-wrapped boxes. “I’m really sick. I need to get straight,
bad. I’m gonna come with you, ’cause hopefully by the time you score, I’ll
have sold these.”
Thomas hadn’t been so sure of that, and he’s still not too sure, but he
likes Void. Thomas decides that he’ll help get him straight if Void can’t
sell the videos. If it comes to that. Thomas doesn’t say this aloud, as
there’s the chance Void’ll pull it off, but won’t try as hard if he thinks
he’s already covered.
Everyone on the street has their own scam, their own game they play to get
what they need. It’s deadly real to the people playing, never feeling much
like a game to Thomas anymore. He just happens to make a bit more money than
most with his particular scam, enabling him to build a bigger habit.
Void rejoins him. They continue walking down St. Marks to Tompkins Sq.,
heading through to the opposite side of the park. Unbelievably, none of the
spots they pass are open. There’s nobody out doing any selling. Void doesn’t
mind as he hasn’t sold the tapes yet, but Thomas is pissed. There’d been
dealers out and about not one hour before as he’d been on his way to sell
the shrooms. Now there’s no one.
“What about 13th Street? Rush?” Void asks. “How’s that been?”
“It hasn’t been so good the last few days, garbage really.” Thomas answers.
“I don’t know if they’re even open yet. It’s only what, Two o’clock, right?”
Thomas doesn’t want to walk over to 13th Street. Walking is beginning to be
a chore. He can feel the lack of dope in him, draining his energy reserves.
Void is even worse off, but therefore more willing to put the effort into
going the four blocks out of the way. There’s nothing for it except to go
along, and Thomas does, grudgingly.
They head straight up 10th St. to 1st Ave., and turn right. At 12th, one
block before they reach the spot, Void unloads the two tapes to someone at
an incense table, making himself the ten bucks he needs for a bag. Thomas is
amazed. He hadn’t expected Void to do it, not after failing the entire walk.
“Void, why don’t you go get the dope while I go around the block and score
some coke? We’ll meet at the Polish restaurant, Christine’s, between 12th
and 13th Streets.”
“Sure, how many do you want?”
“Get me four,” Thomas says handing him forty dollars. “Hurry up.”
Normally he wouldn’t trust someone with his cash, having been burned a
number of times before, but he knows Void pretty well. The two of them are
as close to being friends as people can get and still be strung out, and
besides, if Void knows he’s going to get some coke, he’ll be there. He’s a
fiend who would rather get both.
Like his now-dead friend Dan had been once, Void is another rare find.
The coke store Thomas goes to is on 12th St., just across Ave. A. It only
takes him 5 minutes to get there, conduct his business, and get back to
Christine’s. He arrives almost the same moment as Void, and they walk in
together.
Neither of them look too respectable. The restaurant staff eye them both
with suspicion and just a bit of revulsion, but no one stops them from
taking a seat at a table in the dining area.
“Let me go first, man,” Void says as soon as they are seated. “I’m really
sick. I’m going to throw up right here if I don’t do a shot soon.”
It’s not a lot different for Thomas, who can feel his stomach clenching and
bubbling in anticipation. But he knows Void is in far worse shape so agrees
to wait at the table for Void to go to the toilet first. One of them has to
wait with all their bags while the other gets straight.
“Yeah, all right already, just go.”
“The guy said this is a new batch, that it’s very good, and strong,” Void
says under his breath.
“Yeah, they always say that it’s the best. You know that. It’d be nice
though if it’s better than what they’ve had recently, that’s for sure.”
Thomas isn’t too hopeful. As long as it gets him straight, he doesn’t much
care. “Hurry up. Don’t take forever, ’cause I want to go too.”
“Can I have some coke for my shot?” Void asks, still not moving.
“Hell no. I’ll give you some later, but if you do it now, I’ll be out here
an hour waiting for you. Fuck that.” There’s no anger in his voice, it’s
just that Thomas knows how it is on coke sometimes. “I promise, I’ll give
you some a little later. Now go, hurry up.”
Void goes to the bathroom, leaving Thomas at the table. A waitress comes
over right after Void walks away, so to keep the place happy, and to feed
the both of them a little something, Thomas orders two soups and coffees. By
the time Void comes back to the table, Thomas is almost finished with his
soup and very impatient.
“About fucking time, Void.” Thomas snarls as Void tries to pull out a chair.
He misjudges the distance, pulls it too far, then sits in such a way as to
send both it and himself crashing to the floor.
Thomas can’t help it, and laughs out loud. Still chuckling, he bends down
and gives Void a hand up. As he lifts, he notices Void is not responding
well, that his eyes are way fucked up, glassy and very pinned.
“Hey, you’re not going to nod here at the table and get us thrown out, are
you?” He watches Void struggling to keep his eyes open. “You ok?”
“Oh, come on man, you know me, I’m good. Go ahead.” Void slurs out as he
picks up his coffee, sloshing a third of it onto the table.
Thomas can’t wait any longer. He has to trust that Void will be OK, and goes
to take his turn. The toilet stalls are well used by regular customers of
the dope spot around the corner. Thomas is frequently one of those. He knows
the restaurant well, knows he should have time to relax and go slow without
having a manager in too quickly. He gets out his stuff and mixes up a shot
in short order. Right as he has the vein, just about to boot, there comes a
firm knock on the door of the stall, then an older man’s heavily accented
voice.
“Hey! That your friend at the table? He dead! We call Police, they coming
now. You hurry!”
Thomas pushes in the shot before he realizes what the old guy said. Then as
the drugs take hold the old guy’s words sink in, giving Thomas the
simultaneous rush of the incredibly strong drugs and the disbelief and shock
at what’s just been said to him through the closed toilet stall door. The
coke rush barely tops the dope. The dealer was telling Void the truth,
because the dope feels stronger than any he’s yet found in NYC. Fast as he
can in the shape he’s in, he puts everything away and cleans himself up. He
wants to be out of the toilet before the cops arrive, not wanting any more
attention than he’s already going to have with a dead, overdosed friend on
the floor. That’s already more than he wants.
He gets to the table as quickly as he can. Sure enough, Void is on the
floor, half under the table, not moving. Thomas crouches down and shakes
him. “Wake the hell up man, the cops are coming.” This has absolutely no
effect, so he tries smacking him on the cheeks, one after the other. Again
there’s nothing. Void’s tattooed face and lips are by now turning a weirder
shade of blue, and Thomas can’t find any sign of breathing or a pulse. He
pushes the table back, pulls Void’s body so he’s lying stretched out on his
back, and considers giving him mouth to mouth resuscitation or even CPR.
Luckily he doesn’t have to as he’s abruptly pushed aside by two eager
paramedics, all bustle and business.
“Overdose,” says the one who pushed Thomas. “What’d he take?”
“He told me he was sick, and was going to score a bag. I think he only did
one. That’s all the money he had, ten bucks.” Thomas is thinking that when
the coke he himself shot in that speedball wears off, he’s also going to be
very stoned, and doesn’t want to be dealing with the police. They’d arrived
with the paramedics, and now they start to question him.
“Where’d he get it? You got any yourself, kid?” One bored cop asks.
“I don’t know where he got it, and no, I don’t.” Thomas sees no need for
complete honesty here.
Down on the floor the paramedics aren’t having any more luck than had Thomas
in getting Void to respond. One of them reaches into the box of medical
supplies he’d brought in, and starts rummaging around.
“His girlfriend lives right across the street. I’m going to run see if she’s
there, because I’m not going to the hospital with him. She should know
anyway.” The cops agree it’s a good idea, so Thomas runs to her apartment.
Finding her home, he quickly convinces her to come with him, explaining
along the way what’s going on.
By the time they get back to the restaurant, the paramedic is holding a
loaded hypodermic in his hand, preparing to administer it to Void.
“What’s that, Narcan?” Thomas asks.
“That’s right,” says the paramedic. “He’s a lucky guy.” He shoots the stuff
into Void’s upper arm. “Thirty seconds, just wait. This stuff is magic.”
Thomas doesn’t think Void is going to feel so lucky when he wakes up. Yeah,
he’s alive, but he’d just gotten straight. Now he’s going to be really sick.
Narcan completely clears the system of any vestige of the drug and it’s
effects, at least temporarily, leaving the patient agonizingly ill.
After exactly thirty seconds, Void’s eyes shoot open. The first words out of
his mouth are, “I’m all right, I’m all right.” He’s not even aware he’s been
dead, at least not immediately, but confusion is evident on his face. It’s
obvious something is wrong. He looks up at the paramedics and cops. “Oh
shit.”
“Just lie there for a minute, kid. Relax.” One of the paramedics tells Void,
who’s struggling to get to his feet. “Give it a minute, you just had a close
call.”
“So now what?” Thomas interrupts one of the cops, who’s making disparaging
remarks about junkies and losers to his partner. “Is he going to be OK?”
“Yeah, he’ll be fine. They’ve got to take him in to the hospital ’cause they
gave him a shot. It’s the law. They work on you, you ride with them.” The
cop doesn’t look at Thomas, so Thomas doesn’t say anything else.
Void is helped out of the door by the paramedics. Void’s girlfriend goes
with him. Thomas can hear her soothing Void, giving comfort, and almost feel
s a pang of jealousy. He can’t imagine his girlfiend acting thus for him.
The cops are speaking with the restaurant staff, writing in their little
black books and ignoring him, so Thomas decides it’s definitely time for him
to go.
No one pays him any mind as he picks up his bag and coat, and walks out the
front door onto 1st Ave.
“Damn I’m glad I’m not Void right now,” he thinks, watching the ambulance
drive away. Narcan does not look like a fun experience. If Void had been in
a park somewhere, he wouldn’t have had to go through that. Most probably he
would have simply slept through the dope, then woken up tomorrow sick, ready
to start again. Which is of course exactly what’s going to happen. Thomas
knows he’ll bump into Void again soon, sick as hell out looking for drugs.
This close call won’t change a thing.
It doesn’t occur to Thomas how close he himself came to lying on the floor
being treated by the paramedics.
Thomas shakes his head, then heads to Tompkins Square to do some more of his
own stuff, stopping along the way to tell another couple of fiends he knows
that “Rush is damned good today.”

Tompkins Sq. Park
Peace all,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 11:22 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route you
take it

Jim, I did some research and my findings are as follows…
What is the difference between naltrexone and naloxone?
Functionally, they are the same type of drug. They compete with heroin at
the receptor level and block the effect of heroin. Naloxone is administered
intravenously and lasts for approximately 20 minutes. Naltrexone is
administered orally (pill form) and can last for 1 to 2 days.
No matter what name they use it is still some bad shit for addicts!
They are now using Naltrexone in alcoholism treatment!
Callie

> ATTACHMENT part 2 image/jpeg name=shooter2.jpg

> ATTACHMENT part 3 image/jpeg name=tompkinstable2.JPG

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From: “FakePlacebo” <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] AnyoneFormer’done gone2Bupe (treatment in Turkey)
Date: July 24, 2004 at 3:50:33 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear DH, gboy and Jim,

If you arrest for Canabis use here in Turkey for first time you could sentence to one year in prison (but if you are just an ordinary Canabis user) If you are a dealer the sentence is 4 to 8 years in prison. But this not the worst. Once you registered in government records by the canabis using or dealing crime; you have no civil rights anymore for your lifetime. Here in Turkey companies ask you your police records if your papers are not  “clean” they never hire you.  (there is no delete by the time or something) you can not get driving licance, civil right like voting, passaport and many more…. even you can’t get marrie, you can not give testimony for cases.

Turkish jails are awfull. Prisons are staying so many crowded and narrow rooms. Many of the prisons are sleeping on the concret ground as they are naked. Sexual harassment and rape are very ordinary cases in the jails of country.

gboy asked me why I’m keep on live here in Turkey? I’m graduated one as a computer engineer and it’s not  hard to get a job outside of Turkey for me. But first I have to break my chains to the oppiates. My addiction is obstruct me to go out.

I know this is not an excuse but my mother and father died in car accident when I was a baby and I raised in an orphanage. I have no parents or relatives all I have is 12 years old male cat.  I’m sure that I will break my chains one way or the other and leave this country (with my cat)

Best Regards
FakePlacebo

—– Original Message —–
From: D H
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 9:46 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] AnyoneFormer’done gone2Bupe (treatment in Turkey)

Damn, FP,

It sounds like Turkey is about 50 years behind the times.

Like Preston, I am curious on the Cannabis laws over there, with all that tasty turkish hashish to be had?

If you become registered as an addict, do they allow you to leave the country?

Peace,
_.dh

On Thursday, July 22, 2004, at 10:23 PM, FakePlacebo wrote:

My Friend Jim,

It’s sounds so strange for me that hear from you about detoxing way of detox center in the western world. I think it’s only in my country. In here Turkey there is an official addiction treating center wich name is AMATEM. to hear that name  gives all the addicts  fright and horor. Beacuse thing they call it treatment is just lock you in a empty room and let you alone without sometimes even one glass of water; until you became “clean”. After you stay there around ten fucking days they register you as an addict in the govrentment records and you can’t get a job, driving licance and civil rights like voting.

There is no medical or mentaly support in AMATEM. Once you registered as an addict you’r dead thats all. The addicts put the name of this treatment: “concret treatment” beacuse of the empty cold concret room. But if you are rich (very rich) there is few clean, good, comfortable detox centers in Turkey.

They treated me in AMATEM  for three times. ( they get me there by the police force) But I was lucky 10 years ago there was no computer to keep records and records totaly lost beacuse of conflagration.

Best Regards
FakePlacebo

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran
Date: July 23, 2004 at 8:39:48 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Preston,

Everytime I get drunk, I want to smoke rock.  Of course with the hepC, I consume little to no booze these days…and I’m not smoking rock either. Hmmmm.

The urge for H though exists while I’m stone cold sober.  Although not having at least afew drinks before heading to Washington Heights has helped keep me out of there. I got arrested the last two times I was there.

Sean

Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran
Date: July 23, 2004 at 8:24:17 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi M,

I hear the hope in your post.  (And from my experience, at least wear a really light long sleeve shirt to your parents.:)  It is good to hear that you are going forward with treatment.

sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] getting dosed (abused) in the ER
Date: July 23, 2004 at 8:14:05 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Hannah,

Thanks for the information.  I am connecting with someone in NY who is interested in getting a union going in the US.  I will keep you and the group updated.

On another note, I am really considering iboagine treatment possibly as soon as the next couple of months.  I will have to quite alot aof footwork though, and part of me less enthusiastic than I was a while back.   Just typing this to share how I feel, as sometimes that gets me more motivated.  And where else but the ibogaine list?

Sean

From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] mcorcoran
Date: July 23, 2004 at 7:48:07 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I hope your brain isn’t so fried that you can’t figure out that masterful code.
I’m such a jack ass.  -m.

mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com> wrote:
i want to talk to you before I leave. call me or I’ll call you.  -M. 8673-504-719

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
“your so brave”
LOL.
Seriously brave guy, I am excited for you.
I for one am glad you surviced that cocaine incident- god damn but I
remember that feeling of fear so well, that absolute terror telling someone,
“hey, go get help, I’m going to die,” and watching them not move, not get
up, not do anything at all but sit there as the huge bugs began crawling
around my face and body, so big I could feel them crunching in my fingers as
I yanked them from my face but couldn’t hear the pop as the strobe light was
too loud in my ears and I couldn’t see the damn things because…well…they
weren’t really there.
Those were the days, eh?
Peace and love to you Mark.
Preston (make sure to fill us in upon your return. DON’T leave those of us
still waiting in the lurch, PLEASE.)

—– Original Message —–
From: mcorcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 6:32 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran

I had this dream last night that my plane was hijacked and I was trying to
sneak in the bathroom to drink my bottles, sick huh? Maybe no more 9-11
report before my Ibo treatment. Oh my God, I’m leavin the day after
tomorrow. I dropped to 80 today. i guess for no other reason than kickin an
80 sounds a lot more doable than a 90 or 100 or 110.
Hey not bad for 4 weeks. But I’m not feelin all that great i have to tell
you. But not terrible either. Excited as hell one minute scared to death the
next. But I guess thats normal. If one more person says “your so brave” I
think I’ll puke. I mean I appreciate th sentiment, I really do. but I don’t
want this to be a thing where I need to be “soo brave” I want this to be a
little easier than everyone seems to think. Not you guys of course. :o) Well
not all of you anyway. I’m feeling empowered these last few days. i guess
looking at the prospect of being free makes me realize that a lot of the
things that I do in my life that I’m not happy with I put up with because in
one way or another because if I didn’t it would make my use that much more
difficult. Hate my job, but there is not much chance that I could make this
kinda money doing something I like, and I need this money for my expensive
program, and my frivolous spending due to drugs and alcohol. My Apartment,
its a nice place but I wouldn’t be breaking my neck trying to pay this
ridiculous rent if it wasn’t so convenient to my program and my drinking
haunts. Oh and Harlem being 15 blocks away has been a plus as well. Ya know,
shit like that. So the idea that I no longer need to live with that fear
that if it all came crumbling down (which it feels like its going to at any
minute) I’d be totally screwed, is really comforting. I walked out of the
office this afternoon and thought to myself that its more likely than not
that I will never step foot in that place again, and instead of that fear I
usually feel when I think I might lose my job and wont have money coming in,
it was a feeling of complete relief. It was like “Thank God I’m finally
closing the door on this miserable part of my life”. I couldn’t stop smiling
all the way home.
Then on the subway I see this guy that I used to run with (Preston you’d
know him) and he looked like death warmed over. “Just came home from doin 90
days on the Island and lookin for dope and coke and headin uptown”. I told
him about the Ibogaine and he didn’t seem to have much thoughts one way or
another. He said that it seemed like I was doing well to begin with then he
began to talk about how fucked up used to be and “do you remember the time
you had that coke OD seize running out of that restaurant on 5th St, cuz the
guy caught you in the bathroom fixing?” I acted like I didn’t know what he
was talkin about but I remember obviously and instead of responding further
I kept asking him to keep his voice down. Actually I remembered it like it
was yesterday after he mentioned it, just slamming the whole 20 because I
was already so freaked out that he had burst in on me… and my legs are
giving out and my arms are starting to go and I know its coming… I turned
around and said “please sir, I’m gonna die” He said something like” yeah you
are gonna die” but before he had a chance I collapsed and bounced around
like a fish out of water. God its crazy because I haven’t been that kinda
cracked out. Now 8 or 9 years later I’m an undercover junkie. But even
though I’m about the furthest thing from that kid I was now but I’m more
miserable than I’ve ever been.
Anyway I got off at my stop and he continued uptown but as a got off the
train immediately I felt better and it felt like I was supposed to see him.
I mean this is a kid I used to run with every day that I haven’t seen in 7
or 8 years. Been thinking so much about my past and all the people who are
dead and gone and how things have changed so much in less than 10 years.
Sorry for that ramble. I’m just so all over the place. But I’m doing good.
Gonna go watch the news.
Thanks for everything and tonight I will respond to all.

D H wrote:

On Thursday, July 22, 2004, at 09:33 PM, Hannah Clay wrote:

> Nice words DH, made me cry! What if you suddenly realise there ain’t
> no music in your head no more? And you can’t even be sure what tune
> it used to be?

Hannah

a lot of your story rings true for me too.

Now why is it that I make women cry??? :^) (Not the music in your
head… in your heart!)

I have often found myself thinking the same thing, no music, no joy,
what is it all coming to?

I don’t have any easy answers to that. My first thought was, This girl
needs some Ibogaine! or perhaps a toke off a really good indica joint.
Except that can be a little too revealing if you are strung out (maybe
that would be a good thing, i dunno) But I will say I avoided smoking
weed when I was doing smack and crack, it made me too! aware of myself.
which is the opposite of what I was trying to accomplish.

But if the above are not options, I’d say do something good for your
soul. Take a walk by yourself or with a close friend in a park or on
the beach or near a river or lake or wherever is peaceful near where
you live. Treat yourself to an ice cream or go to a music store and
listen to something you’ve never heard before. write crazy thoughts
down… getting them onto paper or computer screen takes them out of
your head, and allows room for creativity, inspiration and that music
of the heart. Geez, that sounds really fucking corny but it works. It
may take days/weeks of writing/journaling to get the flow…

You are right, finding that music in the heart is important.

for me, it is knowing that at the deepest core level, I am a good
person, a pure soul, no matter what the head tells me, or anyone else,
for that matter. Undoubtedly Ibogaine made me ! aware of this, before Ibo
I was just going thru the motions, and kept returning to dope no matter
how hard I tried, or what treatment I did.

But ultimately, getting off the shit will make your life
tremendously… better. Or different anyhow. I don’t recall hearing any
music in my heart when I was using. The only thing I heard was chaotic
noise.

> Hey, on the opiate detox site I use 2 people posted that you shouldn’t
> take Ibogaine if you’re a woman-its dangerous! Where on earth did
> they get that from?

I do remember reading this along time ago, back in 1996-7. I think it
stems from the fact that a woman died while on Ibogaine in Europe back
then, but I don’t know of any science or statistics that support this.

Howard?

Peace,

_.dh

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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] mcorcoran
Date: July 23, 2004 at 7:45:48 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

i want to talk to you before I leave. call me or I’ll call you.  -M. 8673-504-719

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
“your so brave”
LOL.
Seriously brave guy, I am excited for you.
I for one am glad you surviced that cocaine incident- god damn but I
remember that feeling of fear so well, that absolute terror telling someone,
“hey, go get help, I’m going to die,” and watching them not move, not get
up, not do anything at all but sit there as the huge bugs began crawling
around my face and body, so big I could feel them crunching in my fingers as
I yanked them from my face but couldn’t hear the pop as the strobe light was
too loud in my ears and I couldn’t see the damn things because…well…they
weren’t really there.
Those were the days, eh?
Peace and love to you Mark.
Preston (make sure to fill us in upon your return. DON’T leave those of us
still waiting in the lurch, PLEASE.)

—– Original Message —–
From: mcorcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 6:32 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran

I had this dream last night that my plane was hijacked and I was trying to
sneak in the bathroom to drink my bottles, sick huh? Maybe no more 9-11
report before my Ibo treatment. Oh my God, I’m leavin the day after
tomorrow. I dropped to 80 today. i guess for no other reason than kickin an
80 sounds a lot more doable than a 90 or 100 or 110.
Hey not bad for 4 weeks. But I’m not feelin all that great i have to tell
you. But not terrible either. Excited as hell one minute scared to death the
next. But I guess thats normal. If one more person says “your so brave” I
think I’ll puke. I mean I appreciate th sentiment, I really do. but I don’t
want this to be a thing where I need to be “soo brave” I want this to be a
little easier than everyone seems to think. Not you guys of course. :o) Well
not all of you anyway. I’m feeling empowered these last few days. i guess
looking at the prospect of being free makes me realize that a lot of the
things that I do in my life that I’m not happy with I put up with because in
one way or another because if I didn’t it would make my use that much more
difficult. Hate my job, but there is not much chance that I could make this
kinda money doing something I like, and I need this money for my expensive
program, and my frivolous spending due to drugs and alcohol. My Apartment,
its a nice place but I wouldn’t be breaking my neck trying to pay this
ridiculous rent if it wasn’t so convenient to my program and my drinking
haunts. Oh and Harlem being 15 blocks away has been a plus as well. Ya know,
shit like that. So the idea that I no longer need to live with that fear
that if it all came crumbling down (which it feels like its going to at any
minute) I’d be totally screwed, is really comforting. I walked out of the
office this afternoon and thought to myself that its more likely than not
that I will never step foot in that place again, and instead of that fear I
usually feel when I think I might lose my job and wont have money coming in,
it was a feeling of complete relief. It was like “Thank God I’m finally
closing the door on this miserable part of my life”. I couldn’t stop smiling
all the way home.
Then on the subway I see this guy that I used to run with (Preston you’d
know him) and he looked like death warmed over. “Just came home from doin 90
days on the Island and lookin for dope and coke and headin uptown”. I told
him about the Ibogaine and he didn’t seem to have much thoughts one way or
another. He said that it seemed like I was doing well to begin with then he
began to talk about how fucked up used to be and “do you remember the time
you had that coke OD seize running out of that restaurant on 5th St, cuz the
guy caught you in the bathroom fixing?” I acted like I didn’t know what he
was talkin about but I remember obviously and instead of responding further
I kept asking him to keep his voice down. Actually I remembered it like it
was yesterday after he mentioned it, just slamming the whole 20 because I
was already so freaked out that he had burst in on me… and my legs are
giving out and my arms are starting to go and I know its coming… I turned
around and said “please sir, I’m gonna die” He said something like” yeah you
are gonna die” but before he had a chance I collapsed and bounced around
like a fish out of water. God its crazy because I haven’t been that kinda
cracked out. Now 8 or 9 years later I’m an undercover junkie. But even
though I’m about the furthest thing from that kid I was now but I’m more
miserable than I’ve ever been.
Anyway I got off at my stop and he continued uptown but as a got off the
train immediately I felt better and it felt like I was supposed to see him.
I mean this is a kid I used to run with every day that I haven’t seen in 7
or 8 years. Been thinking so much about my past and all the people who are
dead and gone and how things have changed so much in less than 10 years.
Sorry for that ramble. I’m just so all over the place. But I’m doing good.
Gonna go watch the news.
Thanks for everything and tonight I will respond to all.

D H wrote:

On Thursday, July 22, 2004, at 09:33 PM, Hannah Clay wrote:

> Nice words DH, made me cry! What if you suddenly realise there ain’t
> no music in your head no more? And you can’t even be sure what tune
> it used to be?

Hannah

a lot of your story rings true for me too.

Now why is it that I make women cry??? :^) (Not the music in your
head… in your heart!)

I have often found myself thinking the same thing, no music, no joy,
what is it all coming to?

I don’t have any easy answers to that. My first thought was, This girl
needs some Ibogaine! or perhaps a toke off a really good indica joint.
Except that can be a little too revealing if you are strung out (maybe
that would be a good thing, i dunno) But I will say I avoided smoking
weed when I was doing smack and crack, it made me too! aware of myself.
which is the opposite of what I was trying to accomplish.

But if the above are not options, I’d say do something good for your
soul. Take a walk by yourself or with a close friend in a park or on
the beach or near a river or lake or wherever is peaceful near where
you live. Treat yourself to an ice cream or go to a music store and
listen to something you’ve never heard before. write crazy thoughts
down… getting them onto paper or computer screen takes them out of
your head, and allows room for creativity, inspiration and that music
of the heart. Geez, that sounds really fucking corny but it works. It
may take days/weeks of writing/journaling to get the flow…

You are right, finding that music in the heart is important.

for me, it is knowing that at the deepest core level, I am a good
person, a pure soul, no matter what the head tells me, or anyone else,
for that matter. Undoubtedly Ibogaine made me ! aware of this, before Ibo
I was just going thru the motions, and kept returning to dope no matter
how hard I tried, or what treatment I did.

But ultimately, getting off the shit will make your life
tremendously… better. Or different anyhow. I don’t recall hearing any
music in my heart when I was using. The only thing I heard was chaotic
noise.

> Hey, on the opiate detox site I use 2 people posted that you shouldn’t
> take Ibogaine if you’re a woman-its dangerous! Where on earth did
> they get that from?

I do remember reading this along time ago, back in 1996-7. I think it
stems from the fact that a woman died while on Ibogaine in Europe back
then, but I don’t know of any science or statistics that support this.

Howard?

Peace,

_.dh

Do you Yahoo!?
Vote for the stars of Yahoo!’s next ad campaign!

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran
Date: July 23, 2004 at 7:41:14 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“your so brave”
LOL.
Seriously brave guy, I am excited for you.
I for one am glad you surviced that cocaine incident- god damn but I
remember that feeling of fear so well, that absolute terror telling someone,
“hey, go get help, I’m going to die,” and watching them not move, not get
up, not do anything at all but sit there as the huge bugs began crawling
around my face and body, so big I could feel them crunching in my fingers as
I yanked them from my face but couldn’t hear the pop as the strobe light was
too loud in my ears and I couldn’t see the damn things because…well…they
weren’t really there.
Those were the days, eh?
Peace and love to you Mark.
Preston (make sure to fill us in upon your return. DON’T leave those of us
still waiting in the lurch, PLEASE.)

—– Original Message —–
From: mcorcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 6:32 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran

I had this dream last night that my plane was hijacked and I was trying to
sneak in the bathroom to drink my bottles, sick huh? Maybe no more 9-11
report before my Ibo treatment. Oh my God, I’m leavin the day after
tomorrow. I dropped to 80 today. i guess for no other reason than kickin an
80 sounds a lot more doable than a 90 or 100 or 110.
Hey not bad for 4 weeks. But I’m not feelin all that great i have to tell
you. But not terrible either. Excited as hell one minute scared to death the
next. But I guess thats normal. If one more person says “your so brave” I
think I’ll puke. I mean I appreciate th sentiment, I really do.  but I don’t
want this to be a thing where I need to be “soo brave” I want this to be a
little easier than everyone seems to think. Not you guys of course. :o) Well
not all of you anyway. I’m feeling empowered these last few days. i guess
looking at the prospect of being free makes me realize that  a lot of the
things that I do in my life that I’m not happy with I put up with because in
one way or another because if I didn’t it would make my use that much more
difficult. Hate my job, but there is not much chance that I could make this
kinda money doing something I like, and I need this money for my expensive
program, and my frivolous spending due to drugs and alcohol. My Apartment,
its a nice place but I wouldn’t be breaking my neck trying to pay this
ridiculous rent if it wasn’t so convenient to my program and my drinking
haunts. Oh and Harlem being 15 blocks away has been a plus as well. Ya know,
shit like that. So the idea that I no longer need to live with that fear
that if it all came crumbling down (which it feels like its going to at any
minute)  I’d be totally screwed, is really comforting. I walked out of the
office this afternoon and thought to myself that its more likely than not
that I will never step foot in that place again, and instead of that fear I
usually feel when I think I might lose my job and wont have money coming in,
it was a feeling of  complete relief. It was like “Thank God I’m finally
closing the door on this miserable part of my life”. I couldn’t stop smiling
all the way home.
Then on the subway I see this guy that I used to run with (Preston you’d
know him) and he looked like death warmed over. “Just came home from doin 90
days on the Island and lookin for dope and coke and headin uptown”. I  told
him about the Ibogaine and he didn’t seem to have much thoughts one way or
another. He said that it seemed like I was doing well to begin with then he
began to  talk about how fucked up used to be and “do you remember the time
you had that coke OD seize running out of that restaurant on 5th St, cuz the
guy caught you in the bathroom fixing?” I acted like I didn’t know what he
was talkin about  but I remember obviously and instead of responding further
I kept asking him to keep his voice down. Actually I remembered it like it
was yesterday after he mentioned it, just slamming the whole 20 because I
was already so freaked out that he had burst in on me… and my legs are
giving out and my arms are starting to go and I know its coming… I turned
around and said “please sir, I’m gonna die” He said something like” yeah you
are gonna die” but before he had a chance I collapsed and bounced around
like a fish out of water. God its crazy because I haven’t been that kinda
cracked out. Now 8 or 9 years later I’m an undercover junkie. But even
though I’m about the furthest thing from that kid I was now but I’m more
miserable than I’ve ever been.
Anyway I got off at my stop and he continued uptown but as a got off the
train immediately I felt better and it felt like I was supposed to see him.
I mean this is a kid I used to run with every day that I haven’t seen in 7
or 8 years. Been thinking so much about my past and all the people who are
dead and gone and how things have changed so much in less than 10 years.
Sorry for that ramble. I’m just so all over the place. But I’m doing good.
Gonna go watch the news.
Thanks for everything and tonight I will respond to all.

D H <dave@phantom.com> wrote:

On Thursday, July 22, 2004, at 09:33 PM, Hannah Clay wrote:

Nice words DH, made me cry!  What if you suddenly realise there ain’t
no music in your head no more?  And you can’t even be sure what tune
it used to be?

Hannah

a lot of your story rings true for me too.

Now why is it that I make women cry??? :^) (Not the music in your
head… in your heart!)

I have often found myself thinking the same thing, no music, no joy,
what is it all coming to?

I don’t have any easy answers to that. My first thought was, This girl
needs some Ibogaine! or perhaps a toke off a really good indica joint.
Except that can be a little too revealing if you are strung out (maybe
that would be a good thing, i dunno) But I will say I avoided smoking
weed when I was doing smack and crack, it made me too! aware of myself.
which is the opposite of what I was trying to accomplish.

But if the above are not options, I’d say do something good for your
soul. Take a walk by yourself or with a close friend in a park or on
the beach or near a river or lake or wherever is peaceful near where
you live. Treat yourself to an ice cream or go to a music store and
listen to something you’ve never heard before. write crazy thoughts
down… getting them onto paper or computer screen takes them out of
your head, and allows room for creativity, inspiration and that music
of the heart. Geez, that sounds really fucking corny but it works. It
may take days/weeks of writing/journaling to get the flow…

You are right, finding that music in the heart is important.

for me, it is knowing that at the deepest core level, I am a good
person, a pure soul, no matter what the head tells me, or anyone else,
for that matter. Undoubtedly Ibogaine made me ! aware of this, before Ibo
I was just going thru the motions, and kept returning to dope no matter
how hard I tried, or what treatment I did.

But ultimately, getting off the shit will make your life
tremendously… better. Or different anyhow. I don’t recall hearing any
music in my heart when I was using. The only thing I heard was chaotic
noise.

Hey, on the opiate detox site I use 2 people posted that you shouldn’t
take Ibogaine if you’re a woman-its dangerous!  Where on earth did
they get that from?

I do remember reading this along time ago, back in 1996-7. I think it
stems from the fact that a woman died while on Ibogaine in Europe back
then, but I don’t know of any science or statistics that support this.

Howard?

Peace,

_.dh

Do you Yahoo!?
Vote for the stars of Yahoo!’s next ad campaign!

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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran
Date: July 23, 2004 at 6:32:04 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I had this dream last night that my plane was hijacked and I was trying to sneak in the bathroom to drink my bottles, sick huh? Maybe no more 9-11 report before my Ibo treatment. Oh my God, I’m leavin the day after tomorrow. I dropped to 80 today. i guess for no other reason than kickin an 80 sounds a lot more doable than a 90 or 100 or 110.
Hey not bad for 4 weeks. But I’m not feelin all that great i have to tell you. But not terrible either. Excited as hell one minute scared to death the next. But I guess thats normal. If one more person says “your so brave” I think I’ll puke. I mean I appreciate th sentiment, I really do.  but I don’t want this to be a thing where I need to be “soo brave” I want this to be a little easier than everyone seems to think. Not you guys of course. :o) Well not all of you anyway. I’m feeling empowered these last few days. i guess looking at the prospect of being free makes me realize that  a lot of the things that I do in my life that I’m not happy with I put up with because in one way or another because if I didn’t it would make my use that much more difficult. Hate my job, but there is not much chance that I could make this kinda money doing something I like, and I need this money for my expensive program, and my frivolous spending due to drugs and alcohol. My Apartment, its a nice place but I wouldn’t be breaking my neck trying to pay this ridiculous rent if it wasn’t so convenient to my program and my drinking haunts. Oh and Harlem being 15 blocks away has been a plus as well. Ya know, shit like that. So the idea that I no longer need to live with that fear that if it all came crumbling down (which it feels like its going to at any minute)  I’d be totally screwed, is really comforting. I walked out of the office this afternoon and thought to myself that its more likely than not that I will never step foot in that place again, and instead of that fear I usually feel when I think I might lose my job and wont have money coming in, it was a feeling of  complete relief. It was like “Thank God I’m finally closing the door on this miserable part of my life”. I couldn’t stop smiling all the way home.
Then on the subway I see this guy that I used to run with (Preston you’d know him) and he looked like death warmed over. “Just came home from doin 90 days on the Island and lookin for dope and coke and headin uptown”. I  told him about the Ibogaine and he didn’t seem to have much thoughts one way or another. He said that it seemed like I was doing well to begin with then he began to  talk about how fucked up used to be and “do you remember the time you had that coke OD seize running out of that restaurant on 5th St, cuz the guy caught you in the bathroom fixing?” I acted like I didn’t know what he was talkin about  but I remember obviously and instead of responding further I kept asking him to keep his voice down. Actually I remembered it like it was yesterday after he mentioned it, just slamming the whole 20 because I was already so freaked out that he had burst in on me… and my legs are giving out and my arms are starting to go and I know its coming… I turned around and said “please sir, I’m gonna die” He said something like” yeah you are gonna die” but before he had a chance I collapsed and bounced around like a fish out of water. God its crazy because I haven’t been that kinda cracked out. Now 8 or 9 years later I’m an undercover junkie. But even though I’m about the furthest thing from that kid I was now but I’m more miserable than I’ve ever been.
Anyway I got off at my stop and he continued uptown but as a got off the train immediately I felt better and it felt like I was supposed to see him.  I mean this is a kid I used to run with every day that I haven’t seen in 7 or 8 years. Been thinking so much about my past and all the people who are dead and gone and how things have changed so much in less than 10 years.
Sorry for that ramble. I’m just so all over the place. But I’m doing good. Gonna go watch the news.
Thanks for everything and tonight I will respond to all.

D H <dave@phantom.com> wrote:

On Thursday, July 22, 2004, at 09:33 PM, Hannah Clay wrote:

> Nice words DH, made me cry!  What if you suddenly realise there ain’t
> no music in your head no more?  And you can’t even be sure what tune
> it used to be?

Hannah

a lot of your story rings true for me too.

Now why is it that I make women cry??? :^) (Not the music in your
head… in your heart!)

I have often found myself thinking the same thing, no music, no joy,
what is it all coming to?

I don’t have any easy answers to that. My first thought was, This girl
needs some Ibogaine! or perhaps a toke off a really good indica joint.
Except that can be a little too revealing if you are strung out (maybe
that would be a good thing, i dunno) But I will say I avoided smoking
weed when I was doing smack and crack, it made me too aware of myself.
which is the opposite of what I was trying to accomplish.

But if the above are not options, I’d say do something good for your
soul. Take a walk by yourself or with a close friend in a park or on
the beach or near a river or lake or wherever is peaceful near where
you live. Treat yourself to an ice cream or go to a music store and
listen to something you’ve never heard before. write crazy thoughts
down… getting them onto paper or computer screen takes them out of
your head, and allows room for creativity, inspiration and that music
of the heart. Geez, that sounds really fucking corny but it works. It
may take days/weeks of writing/journaling to get the flow…

You are right, finding that music in the heart is important.

for me, it is knowing that at the deepest core level, I am a good
person, a pure soul, no matter what the head tells me, or anyone else,
for that matter. Undoubtedly Ibogaine made me aware of this, before Ibo
I was just going thru the motions, and kept returning to dope no matter
how hard I tried, or what treatment I did.

But ultimately, getting off the shit will make your life
tremendously… better. Or different anyhow. I don’t recall hearing any
music in my heart when I was using. The only thing I heard was chaotic
noise.

> Hey, on the opiate detox site I use 2 people posted that you shouldn’t
> take Ibogaine if you’re a woman-its dangerous!  Where on earth did
> they get that from?

I do remember reading this along time ago, back in 1996-7. I think it
stems from the fact that a woman died while on Ibogaine in Europe back
then, but I don’t know of any science or statistics that support this.

Howard?

Peace,

_.dh

Do you Yahoo!?
Vote for the stars of Yahoo!’s next ad campaign!

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fwd: A Picture Share!
Date: July 23, 2004 at 5:06:36 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

And Sara, you have a great smile and happy eyes.
Love this photos too.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 3:38 PM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Fwd: A Picture Share!

And this is my picture.

Sara

Van: Sapphirestardus@aol.com [mailto:Sapphirestardus@aol.com]
Verzonden: woensdag 21 juli 2004 21:36
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [ibogaine] Fwd: A Picture Share!

Mark, the picture is fine.

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Pikturez = thousand WordS
Date: July 23, 2004 at 5:00:28 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

and this one too- wow Carla, you look so…bright, healthy lit up, alive,
fresh, happy.
Very nice to see- and ignore the grumpy type (Curtis you grump you) who
doesn’t like to see the photos.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Carla Barnes” <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 7:53 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Pikturez = thousand WordS

You look alot like I thought you might. Always
wondered what you looked like, Patrick I’ve seen
photos and video of for years. Both of you are what I
used to spend my life dating, cute, disturbed,
artistic psycho guys 😉 the more strung out and self
hating the better 😉 😉 You too Preston, hi! 😉

Hi everyone, hi to all the police reading this list
too! I think this should motivate me really hard not
to relapse 😉

Carla B

— D H <dave@phantom.com> wrote:
this is me:

BeFoRe:  2 days post ibo dumping methadone in
Italian toilet 1998

aFtEr: grimacing with Hawaiian Gods 2003

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – Send 10MB messages!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Pikturez = thousand WordS
Date: July 23, 2004 at 4:59:14 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

awesome photos Dave, Don’t know how I didn’t see these until now…somehow
all my mail was suddenly marked “read” and I hadn’t actually “read” it all
yet. I think I fell asleep after being up all night djing and smoking pot
and taking pain meds and..well…nodding off about describes it.
Hmmm.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “D H” <dave@phantom.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 7:07 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Pikturez = thousand WordS

this is me:

BeFoRe:  2 days post ibo dumping methadone in Italian toilet 1998

aFtEr: grimacing with Hawaiian Gods 2003

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route you take it
Date: July 23, 2004 at 4:42:16 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jim Hadey >What I want to know if it is in Subutex, <

According to the flier I have in my hands right now from the company, no it
is not in Subutex- that contains “only the medicine burprenorphine” while
Suboxone contines both bup and naloxone. Both Subutex and Suboxone can cause
fairly severe side effects if the flier is any indication.
And, it IS NOT GOOD TO TAKE IF YOU HAVE HEP C!!!!!
Peace,
Preston

.
—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 2:50 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route
you take it

Hi All,

I know the difference between Naloxone and Naltrexone, Narcan (Naloxone) is
shorter acting and is shot up.  What I want to know if you take it via mouth
will it make you sick?

They put it it Talwin (Narcon or Naloxone) to stop people from shooting it
up.  What I want to know if it is in Subutex, which it is,  will it also
make you sick by taking it via mouth or under the tongue?  It is not suppose
to.  But I would like to be sure.  Like did bupe or Subutex cause anyone to
go into w/d by placing it under the tongue?  I probably will not use smack
for the next few days but am taking quite a bit of Lortab.

Thanks for any help,

– JIM

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Naloxone is administered intravenously and lasts for approximately 20
minutes.<

This is Narcan, right, this Naloxone?

No matter what name they use it is still some bad shit for addicts!<
Other than for the fa ct it can and has saved a number of lives, I agree in
that Narcan is not a pleasent drug to be given as an opiate addict, or so
I’ve been lead to believe from  seeing it given right in front of me- a few
here may even be able to give us even more first hand accounts that I have
in the following. I’ve probably posted this before, but so what? There are a
few newish subscribers who may not have seen this, so I post it again, at
risk of repeating myself and in hopes of entertaining some of you:
snip-
“What’s that, Narcan?” Thomas asks.
“That’s right,” says the paramedic. “He’s a lucky guy.” He shoots the stuff
into Void’s upper arm. “Thirty seconds, just wait. This stuff is magic.”
Thomas doesn’t think Void is going to feel so lucky when he wakes up. Yeah,
he’s alive, but he’d just gotten straight. Now he’s going to be really sick.
<
end snip-
Full story:
http://www.drugwar.com/PrestonPeetIndex.shtm
Narcan-
Bringing the Dead Back to Life
chapter 20 of “Something in the Way”
copyright 2001
by Preston Peet

posted Halloween, 2002
“Why is it whenever I’m broke they’re everywhere, but when I’ve got cash, I
can’t find anyone?”
“Yeah well, at least you’ve got money. All I got are these two lousy videos.
Oh, hold on a second.”
Thomas watches his friend Void run over to a couple of fences standing by
St. Marks, and 2nd Ave., and try to sell them the videotapes, to no avail.
Thomas was exiting a building at the corner of Lafayette and Houston Streets
after selling some freshly-stolen Shitake mushrooms as Magic mushrooms,
calling them “Colorado Gold Tops.” Some guys he’d approached on their way to
a club near Fourteenth St. the night before had given him a business card
with their work number on it, telling him to call after Thomas had mentioned
he could get really good mushrooms. As soon as he’d woken up this morning,
he’d run to a phone and given them a call. Setting up the deal had been
little trouble. Thomas plays to his victims’ greed, offering them deals
better than any they’ll know of anywhere, yet not so much better that the
vics get suspicious. He depends on this kind of scam for almost his entire
livelihood. From ! necessity he’s gotten very good at separating people from
their money.
Stepping out the office building’s front door, flush with the feeling of
success and a good sum of cash, Thomas’ mind was focused on going to score.
He’d not seen Void standing there until he’d literally bumped into him.
“Hey, what’s up Void? ‘Scuse me, I’m on a mission. Didn’t see you.” Void
seemed to be just standing there. “What are you doing, spanging?”
“Oh no, I need to sell these movies.” Void held out the films, still in
their new, shrink-wrapped boxes. “I’m really sick. I need to get straight,
bad. I’m gonna come with you, ’cause hopefully by the time you score, I’ll
have sold these.”
Thomas hadn’t been so sure of that, and he’s still not too sure, but he
likes Void. Thomas decides that he’ll help get him straight if Void can’t
sell the videos. If it comes to that. Thomas doesn’t say this aloud, as
there’s the chance Void’ll pull it off, but won’t try as hard if he thinks
he’s already covered.
Everyone on the street has their own scam, their own game they play to get
what they need. It’s deadly real to the people playing, never feeling much
like a game to Thomas anymore. He just happens to make a bit more money than
most with his particular scam, enabling him to build a bigger habit.
Void rejoins him. They continue walking down St. Marks to Tompkins Sq.,
heading through to the opposite side of the park. Unbelievably, none of the
spots they pass are open. There’s nobody out doing any selling. Void doesn’t
mind as he hasn’t sold the tapes yet, but Thomas is pissed. There’d been
dealers out and about not one hour before as he’d been on his way to sell
the shrooms. Now there’s no one.
“What about 13th Street? Rush?” Void asks. “How’s that been?”
“It hasn’t been so good the last few days, garbage really.” Thomas answers.
“I don’t know if they’re even open yet. It’s only what, Two o’clock, right?”
Thomas doesn’t want to walk over to 13th Street. Walking is beginning to be
a chore. He can feel the lack of dope in him, draining his energy reserves.
Void is even worse off, but therefore more willing to put the effort into
going the four blocks out of the way. There’s nothing for it except to go
along, and Thomas does, grudgingly.
They head straight up 10th St. to 1st Ave., and turn right. At 12th, one
block before they reach the spot, Void unloads the two tapes to someone at
an incense table, making himself the ten bucks he needs for a bag. Thomas is
amazed. He hadn’t expected Void to do it, not after failing the entire walk.
“Void, why don’t you go get the dope while I go around the block and score
some coke? We’ll meet at the Polish restaurant, Christine’s, between 12th
and 13th Streets.”
“Sure, how many do you want?”
“Get me four,” Thomas says handing him forty dollars. “Hurry up.”
Normally he wouldn’t trust someone with his cash, having been burned a
number of times before, but he knows Void pretty well. The two of them are
as close to being friends as people can get and still be strung out, and
besides, if Void knows he’s going to get some coke, he’ll be there. He’s a
fiend who would rather get both.
Like his now-dead friend Dan had been once, Void is another rare find.
The coke store Thomas goes to is on 12th St., just across Ave. A. It only
takes him 5 minutes to get there, conduct his business, and get back to
Christine’s. He arrives almost the same moment as Void, and they walk in
together.
Neither of them look too respectable. The restaurant staff eye them both
with suspicion and just a bit of revulsion, but no one stops them from
taking a seat at a table in the dining area.
“Let me go first, man,” Void says as soon as they are seated. “I’m really
sick. I’m going to throw up right here if I don’t do a shot soon.”
It’s not a lot different for Thomas, who can feel his stomach clenching and
bubbling in anticipation. But he knows Void is in far worse shape so agrees
to wait at the table for Void to go to the toilet first. One of them has to
wait with all their bags while the other gets straight.
“Yeah, all right already, just go.”
“The guy said this is a new batch, that it’s very good, and strong,” Void
says under his breath.
“Yeah, they always say that it’s the best. You know that. It’d be nice
though if it’s better than what they’ve had recently, that’s for sure.”
Thomas isn’t too hopeful. As long as it gets him straight, he doesn’t much
care. “Hurry up. Don’t take forever, ’cause I want to go too.”
“Can I have some coke for my shot?” Void asks, still not moving.
“Hell no. I’ll give you some later, but if you do it now, I’ll be out here
an hour waiting for you. Fuck that.” There’s no anger in his voice, it’s
just that Thomas knows how it is on coke sometimes. “I promise, I’ll give
you some a little later. Now go, hurry up.”
Void goes to the bathroom, leaving Thomas at the table. A waitress comes
over right after Void walks away, so to keep the place happy, and to feed
the both of them a little something, Thomas orders two soups and coffees. By
the time Void comes back to the table, Thomas is almost finished with his
soup and very impatient.
“About fucking time, Void.” Thomas snarls as Void tries to pull out a chair.
He misjudges the distance, pulls it too far, then sits in such a way as to
send both it and himself crashing to the floor.
Thomas can’t help it, and laughs out loud. Still chuckling, he bends down
and gives Void a hand up. As he lifts, he notices Void is not responding
well, that his eyes are way fucked up, glassy and very pinned.
“Hey, you’re not going to nod here at the table and get us thrown out, are
you?” He watches Void struggling to keep his eyes open. “You ok?”
“Oh, come on man, you know me, I’m good. Go ahead.” Void slurs out as he
picks up his coffee, sloshing a third of it onto the table.
Thomas can’t wait any longer. He has to trust that Void will be OK, and goes
to take his turn. The toilet stalls are well used by regular customers of
the dope spot around the corner. Thomas is frequently one of those. He knows
the restaurant well, knows he should have time to relax and go slow without
having a manager in too quickly. He gets out his stuff and mixes up a shot
in short order. Right as he has the vein, just about to boot, there comes a
firm knock on the door of the stall, then an older man’s heavily accented
voice.
“Hey! That your friend at the table? He dead! We call Police, they coming
now. You hurry!”
Thomas pushes in the shot before he realizes what the old guy said. Then as
the drugs take hold the old guy’s words sink in, giving Thomas the
simultaneous rush of the incredibly strong drugs and the disbelief and shock
at what’s just been said to him through the closed toilet stall door. The
coke rush barely tops the dope. The dealer was telling Void the truth,
because the dope feels stronger than any he’s yet found in NYC. Fast as he
can in the shape he’s in, he puts everything away and cleans himself up. He
wants to be out of the toilet before the cops arrive, not wanting any more
attention than he’s already going to have with a dead, overdosed friend on
the floor. That’s already more than he wants.
He gets to the table as quickly as he can. Sure enough, Void is on the
floor, half under the table, not moving. Thomas crouches down and shakes
him. “Wake the hell up man, the cops are coming.” This has absolutely no
effect, so he tries smacking him on the cheeks, one after the other. Again
there’s nothing. Void’s tattooed face and lips are by now turning a weirder
shade of blue, and Thomas can’t find any sign of breathing or a pulse. He
pushes the table back, pulls Void’s body so he’s lying stretched out on his
back, and considers giving him mouth to mouth resuscitation or even CPR.
Luckily he doesn’t have to as he’s abruptly pushed aside by two eager
paramedics, all bustle and business.
“Overdose,” says the one who pushed Thomas. “What’d he take?”
“He told me he was sick, and was going to score a bag. I think he only did
one. That’s all the money he had, ten bucks.” Thomas is thinking that when
the coke he himself shot in that speedball wears off, he’s also going to be
very stoned, and doesn’t want to be dealing with the police. They’d arrived
with the paramedics, and now they start to question him.
“Where’d he get it? You got any yourself, kid?” One bored cop asks.
“I don’t know where he got it, and no, I don’t.” Thomas sees no need for
complete honesty here.
Down on the floor the paramedics aren’t having any more luck than had Thomas
in getting Void to respond. One of them reaches into the box of medical
supplies he’d brought in, and starts rummaging around.
“His girlfriend lives right across the street. I’m going to run see if she’s
there, because I’m not going to the hospital with him. She should know
anyway.” The cops agree it’s a good idea, so Thomas runs to her apartment.
Finding her home, he quickly convinces her to come with him, explaining
along the way what’s going on.
By the time they get back to the restaurant, the paramedic is holding a
loaded hypodermic in his hand, preparing to administer it to Void.
“What’s that, Narcan?” Thomas asks.
“That’s right,” says the paramedic. “He’s a lucky guy.” He shoots the stuff
into Void’s upper arm. “Thirty seconds, just wait. This stuff is magic.”
Thomas doesn’t think Void is going to feel so lucky when he wakes up. Yeah,
he’s alive, but he’d just gotten straight. Now he’s going to be really sick.
Narcan completely clears the system of any vestige of the drug and it’s
effects, at least temporarily, leaving the patient agonizingly ill.
After exactly thirty seconds, Void’s eyes shoot open. The first words out of
his mouth are, “I’m all right, I’m all right.” He’s not even aware he’s been
dead, at least not immediately, but confusion is evident on his face. It’s
obvious something is wrong. He looks up at the paramedics and cops. “Oh
shit.”
“Just lie there for a minute, kid. Relax.” One of the paramedics tells Void,
who’s struggling to get to his feet. “Give it a minute, you just had a close
call.”
“So now what?” Thomas interrupts one of the cops, who’s making disparaging
remarks about junkies and losers to his partner. “Is he going to be OK?”
“Yeah, he’ll be fine. They’ve got to take him in to the hospital ’cause they
gave him a shot. It’s the law. They work on you, you ride with them.” The
cop doesn’t look at Thomas, so Thomas doesn’t say anything else.
Void is helped out of the door by the paramedics. Void’s girlfriend goes
with him. Thomas can hear her soothing Void, giving comfort, and almost feel
s a pang of jealousy. He can’t imagine his girlfiend acting thus for him.
The cops are speaking with the restaurant staff, writing in their little
black books and ignoring him, so Thomas decides it’s definitely time for him
to go.
No one pays him any mind as he picks up his bag and coat, and walks out the
front door onto 1st Ave.
“Damn I’m glad I’m not Void right now,” he thinks, watching the ambulance
drive away. Narcan does not look like a fun experience. If Void had been in
a park somewhere, he wouldn’t have had to go through that. Most probably he
would have simply slept through the dope, then woken up tomorrow sick, ready
to start again. Which is of course exactly what’s going to happen. Thomas
knows he’ll bump into Void again soon, sick as hell out looking for drugs.
This close call won’t change a thing.
It doesn’t occur to Thomas how close he himself came to lying on the floor
being treated by the paramedics.
Thomas shakes his head, then heads to Tompkins Square to do some more of his
own stuff, stopping along the way to tell another couple of fiends he knows
that “Rush is damned good today.”

Tompkins Sq. Park
Peace all,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 11:22 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route you
take it

Jim, I did some research and my findings are as follows…
What is the difference between naltrexone and naloxone?
Functionally, they are the same type of drug. They compete with heroin at
the receptor level and block the effect of heroin. Naloxone is administered
intravenously and lasts for approximately 20 minutes. Naltrexone is
administered orally (pill form) and can last for 1 to 2 days.
No  matter what name they use it is still some bad shit for addicts!
They are now using Naltrexone in alcoholism treatment!
Callie

ATTACHMENT part 2 image/jpeg name=shooter2.jpg

ATTACHMENT part 3 image/jpeg name=tompkinstable2.JPG

__________________________________________________
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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] List Annoucement
Date: July 23, 2004 at 4:04:11 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

<Handing Shiny Gold Star to Mr. Gamma>: Dave, you’re in charge of everything.  If you experience any problems, Jon Freedlander will help you untangle and solve ALL PROBLEMS that afflict the list in particular, and humanity as a whole.  Whoopsie, no, wait, I forget to make Jon a shell account.  C’est La’vie, shit happens.

Gee Thanks. I am like, so there. Like especially the spontaneous healing part.

I think this calls for a spinning Chaos Mandala vortexing out of everyones crown chakra.

_.dh

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] (ot)acetaminophen (a-seat-a-MIN-oh-fen)
Date: July 23, 2004 at 3:27:31 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I found Ibuprofen the best pain killer for me after dental work. I have had almost all my teeth pulled and have had many abscessed, painful teeth.
I do not get any pain relief from acetiminophen(tylenol). In fact, I think anyone with hepC or other liver troubles should steer clear of Tylenol all together.
Good old fashioned plain aspirin is an anti-inflammatory and is a great pain killer too. It is tough on your stomach and you can’t take it if you are on Coumadin(Warfarin) or Heparin blood thinning therapy.
One of the hardest lessons I have had to learn is that sometimes we have pain!! You can’t stop all pains. We have to feel pain at times. That was hard for me to learn because I was a child in the sixties and my Mom shoved a baby aspirin in our mouths everytime we complained! We witnessed Mom and Aunts taking ‘nerve’ pills, diet pills, sleeping pills, and hormones! I just thought everybody took lots of pills! It was the topic of conversation when the women got together over coffee! lol!
I agree with Sarah in regard to the ‘natural’ pain killers in our brain. It is the best pain relief but we gotta hurt first!
Callie

From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route you take it
Date: July 23, 2004 at 3:09:12 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi All,

Sorry, it is Suboxone that has Narcan in it.  There was one guy on here who said something to the effect that he did not like it, he took it while on methadone.  And I was wondering if it was because of the Narcan in it and if Subutex would be better.  However, the doc will make that decision.  They seldom like it when patients make suggestions.  I just want to be sure that when I put the pill under my tongue that I don’t go through w/d which I am sure you can all relate to.

Thanks for any help,  Best to ya all

–   JIM

Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi All,

I know the difference between Naloxone and Naltrexone, Narcan (Naloxone) is shorter acting and is shot up.  What I want to know if you take it via mouth will it make you sick?

They put it it Talwin (Narcon or Naloxone) to stop people from shooting it up.  What I want to know if it is in Subutex, which it is,  will it also make you sick by taking it via mouth or under the tongue?  It is not suppose to.  But I would like to be sure.  Like did bupe or Subutex cause anyone to go into w/d by placing it under the tongue?  I probably will not use smack for the next few days but am taking quite a bit of Lortab.

Thanks for any help,

– JIM

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>Naloxone is administered intravenously and lasts for approximately 20 minutes.<

This is Narcan, right, this Naloxone?

>No matter what name they use it is still some bad shit for addicts!<
Other than for the fa ct it can and has saved a number of lives, I agree in that Narcan is not a pleasent drug to be given as an opiate addict, or so I’ve been lead to believe from  seeing it given right in front of me- a few here may even be able to give us even more first hand accounts that I have in the following. I’ve probably posted this before, but so what? There are a few newish subscribers who may not have seen this, so I post it again, at risk of repeating myself and in hopes of entertaining some of you:
snip-
>“What’s that, Narcan?” Thomas asks.
“That’s right,” says the paramedic. “He’s a lucky guy.” He shoots the stuff into Void’s upper arm. “Thirty seconds, just wait. This stuff is magic.”
Thomas doesn’t think Void is going to feel so lucky when he wakes up. Yeah, he’s alive, but he’d just gotten straight. Now he’s going to be really sick. <
end snip-
Full story:
http://www.drugwar.com/PrestonPeetIndex.shtm
Narcan- 
Bringing the Dead Back to Life
chapter 20 of “Something in the Way”
copyright 2001
by Preston Peet

posted Halloween, 2002

“Why is it whenever I’m broke they’re everywhere, but when I’ve got cash, I can’t find anyone?”
“Yeah well, at least you’ve got money. All I got are these two lousy videos. Oh, hold on a second.”
Thomas watches his friend Void run over to a couple of fences standing by St. Marks, and 2nd Ave., and try to sell them the videotapes, to no avail.
Thomas was exiting a building at the corner of Lafayette and Houston Streets after selling some freshly-stolen Shitake mushrooms as Magic mushrooms, calling them “Colorado Gold Tops.” Some guys he’d approached on their way to a club near Fourteenth St. the night before had given him a business card with their work number on it, telling him to call after Thomas had mentioned he could get really good mushrooms. As soon as he’d woken up this morning, he’d run to a phone and given them a call. Setting up the deal had been little trouble. Thomas plays to his victims’ greed, offering them deals better than any they’ll know of anywhere, yet not so much better that the vics get suspicious. He depends on this kind of scam for almost his entire livelihood. From necessity he’s gotten very good at separating people from their money.
Stepping out the office building’s front door, flush with the feeling of success and a good sum of cash, Thomas’ mind was focused on going to score. He’d not seen Void standing there until he’d literally bumped into him.
“Hey, what’s up Void? ‘Scuse me, I’m on a mission. Didn’t see you.” Void seemed to be just standing there. “What are you doing, spanging?”
“Oh no, I need to sell these movies.” Void held out the films, still in their new, shrink-wrapped boxes. “I’m really sick. I need to get straight, bad. I’m gonna come with you, ‘cause hopefully by the time you score, I’ll have sold these.”
Thomas hadn’t been so sure of that, and he’s still not too sure, but he likes Void. Thomas decides that he’ll help get him straight if Void can’t sell the videos. If it comes to that. Thomas doesn’t say this aloud, as there’s the chance Void’ll pull it off, but won’t try as hard if he thinks he’s already covered.
Everyone on the street has their own scam, their own game they play to get what they need. It’s deadly real to the people playing, never feeling much like a game to Thomas anymore. He just happens to make a bit more money than most with his particular scam, enabling him to build a bigger habit.
Void rejoins him. They continue walking down St. Marks to Tompkins Sq., heading through to the opposite side of the park. Unbelievably, none of the spots they pass are open. There’s nobody out doing any selling. Void doesn’t mind as he hasn’t sold the tapes yet, but Thomas is pissed. There’d been dealers out and about not one hour before as he’d been on his way to sell the shrooms. Now there’s no one.
“What about 13th Street? Rush?” Void asks. “How’s that been?”
“It hasn’t been so good the last few days, garbage really.” Thomas answers. “I don’t know if they’re even open yet. It’s only what, Two o’clock, right?”
Thomas doesn’t want to walk over to 13th Street. Walking is beginning to be a chore. He can feel the lack of dope in him, draining his energy reserves. Void is even worse off, but therefore more willing to put the effort into going the four blocks out of the way. There’s nothing for it except to go along, and Thomas does, grudgingly.
They head straight up 10th St. to 1st Ave., and turn right. At 12th, one block before they reach the spot, Void unloads the two tapes to someone at an incense table, making himself the ten bucks he needs for a bag. Thomas is amazed. He hadn’t expected Void to do it, not after failing the entire walk.
“Void, why don’t you go get the dope while I go around the block and score some coke? We’ll meet at the Polish restaurant, Christine’s, between 12th and 13th Streets.”
“Sure, how many do you want?”
“Get me four,” Thomas says handing him forty dollars. “Hurry up.”
Normally he wouldn’t trust someone with his cash, having been burned a number of times before, but he knows Void pretty well. The two of them are as close to being friends as people can get and still be strung out, and besides, if Void knows he’s going to get some coke, he’ll be there. He’s a fiend who would rather get both.
Like his now-dead friend Dan had been once, Void is another rare find.
The coke store Thomas goes to is on 12th St., just across Ave. A. It only takes him 5 minutes to get there, conduct his business, and get back to Christine’s. He arrives almost the same moment as Void, and they walk in together.
Neither of them look too respectable. The restaurant staff eye them both with suspicion and just a bit of revulsion, but no one stops them from taking a seat at a table in the dining area.
“Let me go first, man,” Void says as soon as they are seated. “I’m really sick. I’m going to throw up right here if I don’t do a shot soon.”
It’s not a lot different for Thomas, who can feel his stomach clenching and bubbling in anticipation. But he knows Void is in far worse shape so agrees to wait at the table for Void to go to the toilet first. One of them has to wait with all their bags while the other gets straight.
“Yeah, all right already, just go.”
“The guy said this is a new batch, that it’s very good, and strong,” Void says under his breath.
“Yeah, they always say that it’s the best. You know that. It’d be nice though if it’s better than what they’ve had recently, that’s for sure.” Thomas isn’t too hopeful. As long as it gets him straight, he doesn’t much care. “Hurry up. Don’t take forever, ‘cause I want to go too.”
“Can I have some coke for my shot?” Void asks, still not moving.
“Hell no. I’ll give you some later, but if you do it now, I’ll be out here an hour waiting for you. Fuck that.” There’s no anger in his voice, it’s just that Thomas knows how it is on coke sometimes. “I promise, I’ll give you some a little later. Now go, hurry up.”
Void goes to the bathroom, leaving Thomas at the table. A waitress comes over right after Void walks away, so to keep the place happy, and to feed the both of them a little something, Thomas orders two soups and coffees. By the time Void comes back to the table, Thomas is almost finished with his soup and very impatient.
“About fucking time, Void.” Thomas snarls as Void tries to pull out a chair. He misjudges the distance, pulls it too far, then sits in such a way as to send both it and himself crashing to the floor.
Thomas can’t help it, and laughs out loud. Still chuckling, he bends down and gives Void a hand up. As he lifts, he notices Void is not responding well, that his eyes are way fucked up, glassy and very pinned.
“Hey, you’re not going to nod here at the table and get us thrown out, are you?” He watches Void struggling to keep his eyes open. “You ok?”
“Oh, come on man, you know me, I’m good. Go ahead.” Void slurs out as he picks up his coffee, sloshing a third of it onto the table.
Thomas can’t wait any longer. He has to trust that Void will be OK, and goes to take his turn. The toilet stalls are well used by regular customers of the dope spot around the corner. Thomas is frequently one of those. He knows the restaurant well, knows he should have time to relax and go slow without having a manager in too quickly. He gets out his stuff and mixes up a shot in short order. Right as he has the vein, just about to boot, there comes a firm knock on the door of the stall, then an older man’s heavily accented voice.
“Hey! That your friend at the table? He dead! We call Police, they coming now. You hurry!”
Thomas pushes in the shot before he realizes what the old guy said. Then as the drugs take hold the old guy’s words sink in, giving Thomas the simultaneous rush of the incredibly strong drugs and the disbelief and shock at what’s just been said to him through the closed toilet stall door. The coke rush barely tops the dope. The dealer was telling Void the truth, because the dope feels stronger than any he’s yet found in NYC. Fast as he can in the shape he’s in, he puts everything away and cleans himself up. He wants to be out of the toilet before the cops arrive, not wanting any more attention than he’s already going to have with a dead, overdosed friend on the floor. That’s already more than he wants.
He gets to the table as quickly as he can. Sure enough, Void is on the floor, half under the table, not moving. Thomas crouches down and shakes him. “Wake the hell up man, the cops are coming.” This has absolutely no effect, so he tries smacking him on the cheeks, one after the other. Again there’s nothing. Void’s tattooed face and lips are by now turning a weirder shade of blue, and Thomas can’t find any sign of breathing or a pulse. He pushes the table back, pulls Void’s body so he’s lying stretched out on his back, and considers giving him mouth to mouth resuscitation or even CPR. Luckily he doesn’t have to as he’s abruptly pushed aside by two eager paramedics, all bustle and business.
“Overdose,” says the one who pushed Thomas. “What’d he take?”
“He told me he was sick, and was going to score a bag. I think he only did one. That’s all the money he had, ten bucks.” Thomas is thinking that when the coke he himself shot in that speedball wears off, he’s also going to be very stoned, and doesn’t want to be dealing with the police. They’d arrived with the paramedics, and now they start to question him.
“Where’d he get it? You got any yourself, kid?” One bored cop asks.
“I don’t know where he got it, and no, I don’t.” Thomas sees no need for complete honesty here.
Down on the floor the paramedics aren’t having any more luck than had Thomas in getting Void to respond. One of them reaches into the box of medical supplies he’d brought in, and starts rummaging around.
“His girlfriend lives right across the street. I’m going to run see if she’s there, because I’m not going to the hospital with him. She should know anyway.” The cops agree it’s a good idea, so Thomas runs to her apartment. Finding her home, he quickly convinces her to come with him, explaining along the way what’s going on.
By the time they get back to the restaurant, the paramedic is holding a loaded hypodermic in his hand, preparing to administer it to Void.
“What’s that, Narcan?” Thomas asks.
“That’s right,” says the paramedic. “He’s a lucky guy.” He shoots the stuff into Void’s upper arm. “Thirty seconds, just wait. This stuff is magic.”
Thomas doesn’t think Void is going to feel so lucky when he wakes up. Yeah, he’s alive, but he’d just gotten straight. Now he’s going to be really sick. Narcan completely clears the system of any vestige of the drug and it’s effects, at least temporarily, leaving the patient agonizingly ill.
After exactly thirty seconds, Void’s eyes shoot open. The first words out of his mouth are, “I’m all right, I’m all right.” He’s not even aware he’s been dead, at least not immediately, but confusion is evident on his face. It’s obvious something is wrong. He looks up at the paramedics and cops. “Oh shit.”
“Just lie there for a minute, kid. Relax.” One of the paramedics tells Void, who’s struggling to get to his feet. “Give it a minute, you just had a close call.”
“So now what?” Thomas interrupts one of the cops, who’s making disparaging remarks about junkies and losers to his partner. “Is he going to be OK?”
“Yeah, he’ll be fine. They’ve got to take him in to the hospital ‘cause they gave him a shot. It’s the law. They work on you, you ride with them.” The cop doesn’t look at Thomas, so Thomas doesn’t say anything else.
Void is helped out of the door by the paramedics. Void’s girlfriend goes with him. Thomas can hear her soothing Void, giving comfort, and almost feels a pang of jealousy. He can’t imagine his girlfiend acting thus for him. The cops are speaking with the restaurant staff, writing in their little black books and ignoring him, so Thomas decides it’s definitely time for him to go.
No one pays him any mind as he picks up his bag and coat, and walks out the front door onto 1st Ave.
“Damn I’m glad I’m not Void right now,” he thinks, watching the ambulance drive away. Narcan does not look like a fun experience. If Void had been in a park somewhere, he wouldn’t have had to go through that. Most probably he would have simply slept through the dope, then woken up tomorrow sick, ready to start again. Which is of course exactly what’s going to happen. Thomas knows he’ll bump into Void again soon, sick as hell out looking for drugs. This close call won’t change a thing.
It doesn’t occur to Thomas how close he himself came to lying on the floor being treated by the paramedics.
Thomas shakes his head, then heads to Tompkins Square to do some more of his own stuff, stopping along the way to tell another couple of fiends he knows that “Rush is damned good today.”
Tompkins Sq. Park
Peace all,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 11:22 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route you take it

Jim, I did some research and my findings are as follows…
What is the difference between naltrexone and naloxone?
Functionally, they are the same type of drug. They compete with heroin at the receptor level and block the effect of heroin. Naloxone is administered intravenously and lasts for approximately 20 minutes. Naltrexone is administered orally (pill form) and can last for 1 to 2 days.
No  matter what name they use it is still some bad shit for addicts!
They are now using Naltrexone in alcoholism treatment!
Callie

> ATTACHMENT part 2 image/jpeg name=shooter2.jpg

> ATTACHMENT part 3 image/jpeg name=tompkinstable2.JPG
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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran
Date: July 23, 2004 at 3:09:40 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Thursday, July 22, 2004, at 09:33 PM, Hannah Clay wrote:

Nice words DH, made me cry!  What if you suddenly realise there ain’t no music in your head no more?  And you can’t even be sure what tune it used to be?

Hannah,

a lot of your story rings true for me too.

Now why is it that I make women cry???  :^)  (Not the music in your head… in your heart!)

I have often found myself thinking the same thing, no music, no joy, what is it all coming to?

I don’t have any easy answers to that. My first thought was, This girl needs some Ibogaine! or perhaps a toke off a really good indica joint. Except that can be a little too revealing if you are strung out (maybe that would be a good thing, i dunno) But I will say I avoided smoking weed when I was doing smack and crack, it made me too aware of myself. which is the opposite of what I was trying to accomplish.

But if the above are not options, I’d say do something good for your soul. Take a walk by yourself or with a close friend in a park or on the beach or near a river or lake or wherever is peaceful near where you live. Treat yourself to an ice cream or go to a music store and listen to something you’ve never heard before. write crazy thoughts down… getting them onto paper or computer screen takes them out of your head, and allows room for creativity, inspiration and that music of the heart. Geez, that sounds really fucking corny but it works. It may take days/weeks of writing/journaling to get the flow…

You are right, finding that music in the heart is important.

for me, it is knowing that at the deepest core level, I am a good person, a pure soul, no matter what the head tells me, or anyone else, for that matter. Undoubtedly Ibogaine made me aware of this, before Ibo I was just going thru the motions, and kept returning to dope no matter how hard I tried, or what treatment I did.

But ultimately, getting off the shit will make your life tremendously… better. Or different anyhow. I don’t recall hearing any music in my heart when I was using. The only thing I heard was chaotic noise.

Hey, on the opiate detox site I use 2 people posted that you shouldn’t take Ibogaine if you’re a woman-its dangerous!  Where on earth did they get that from?

I do remember reading this along time ago, back in 1996-7. I think it stems from the fact that a woman died while on Ibogaine in Europe back then, but I don’t know of any science or statistics that support this.

Howard?

Peace,

_.dh

From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route you take it
Date: July 23, 2004 at 2:50:42 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi All,

I know the difference between Naloxone and Naltrexone, Narcan (Naloxone) is shorter acting and is shot up.  What I want to know if you take it via mouth will it make you sick?

They put it it Talwin (Narcon or Naloxone) to stop people from shooting it up.  What I want to know if it is in Subutex, which it is,  will it also make you sick by taking it via mouth or under the tongue?  It is not suppose to.  But I would like to be sure.  Like did bupe or Subutex cause anyone to go into w/d by placing it under the tongue?  I probably will not use smack for the next few days but am taking quite a bit of Lortab.

Thanks for any help,

– JIM

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>Naloxone is administered intravenously and lasts for approximately 20 minutes.<

This is Narcan, right, this Naloxone?

>No matter what name they use it is still some bad shit for addicts!<
Other than for the fa ct it can and has saved a number of lives, I agree in that Narcan is not a pleasent drug to be given as an opiate addict, or so I’ve been lead to believe from  seeing it given right in front of me- a few here may even be able to give us even more first hand accounts that I have in the following. I’ve probably posted this before, but so what? There are a few newish subscribers who may not have seen this, so I post it again, at risk of repeating myself and in hopes of entertaining some of you:
snip-
>“What’s that, Narcan?” Thomas asks.
“That’s right,” says the paramedic. “He’s a lucky guy.” He shoots the stuff into Void’s upper arm. “Thirty seconds, just wait. This stuff is magic.”
Thomas doesn’t think Void is going to feel so lucky when he wakes up. Yeah, he’s alive, but he’d just gotten straight. Now he’s going to be really sick. <
end snip-
Full story:
http://www.drugwar.com/PrestonPeetIndex.shtm
Narcan- 
Bringing the Dead Back to Life
chapter 20 of “Something in the Way”
copyright 2001
by Preston Peet

posted Halloween, 2002

“Why is it whenever I’m broke they’re everywhere, but when I’ve got cash, I can’t find anyone?”
“Yeah well, at least you’ve got money. All I got are these two lousy videos. Oh, hold on a second.”
Thomas watches his friend Void run over to a couple of fences standing by St. Marks, and 2nd Ave., and try to sell them the videotapes, to no avail.
Thomas was exiting a building at the corner of Lafayette and Houston Streets after selling some freshly-stolen Shitake mushrooms as Magic mushrooms, calling them “Colorado Gold Tops.” Some guys he’d approached on their way to a club near Fourteenth St. the night before had given him a business card with their work number on it, telling him to call after Thomas had mentioned he could get really good mushrooms. As soon as he’d woken up this morning, he’d run to a phone and given them a call. Setting up the deal had been little trouble. Thomas plays to his victims’ greed, offering them deals better than any they’ll know of anywhere, yet not so much better that the vics get suspicious. He depends on this kind of scam for almost his entire livelihood. From necessity he’s gotten very good at separating people from their money.
Stepping out the office building’s front door, flush with the feeling of success and a good sum of cash, Thomas’ mind was focused on going to score. He’d not seen Void standing there until he’d literally bumped into him.
“Hey, what’s up Void? ‘Scuse me, I’m on a mission. Didn’t see you.” Void seemed to be just standing there. “What are you doing, spanging?”
“Oh no, I need to sell these movies.” Void held out the films, still in their new, shrink-wrapped boxes. “I’m really sick. I need to get straight, bad. I’m gonna come with you, ‘cause hopefully by the time you score, I’ll have sold these.”
Thomas hadn’t been so sure of that, and he’s still not too sure, but he likes Void. Thomas decides that he’ll help get him straight if Void can’t sell the videos. If it comes to that. Thomas doesn’t say this aloud, as there’s the chance Void’ll pull it off, but won’t try as hard if he thinks he’s already covered.
Everyone on the street has their own scam, their own game they play to get what they need. It’s deadly real to the people playing, never feeling much like a game to Thomas anymore. He just happens to make a bit more money than most with his particular scam, enabling him to build a bigger habit.
Void rejoins him. They continue walking down St. Marks to Tompkins Sq., heading through to the opposite side of the park. Unbelievably, none of the spots they pass are open. There’s nobody out doing any selling. Void doesn’t mind as he hasn’t sold the tapes yet, but Thomas is pissed. There’d been dealers out and about not one hour before as he’d been on his way to sell the shrooms. Now there’s no one.
“What about 13th Street? Rush?” Void asks. “How’s that been?”
“It hasn’t been so good the last few days, garbage really.” Thomas answers. “I don’t know if they’re even open yet. It’s only what, Two o’clock, right?”
Thomas doesn’t want to walk over to 13th Street. Walking is beginning to be a chore. He can feel the lack of dope in him, draining his energy reserves. Void is even worse off, but therefore more willing to put the effort into going the four blocks out of the way. There’s nothing for it except to go along, and Thomas does, grudgingly.
They head straight up 10th St. to 1st Ave., and turn right. At 12th, one block before they reach the spot, Void unloads the two tapes to someone at an incense table, making himself the ten bucks he needs for a bag. Thomas is amazed. He hadn’t expected Void to do it, not after failing the entire walk.
“Void, why don’t you go get the dope while I go around the block and score some coke? We’ll meet at the Polish restaurant, Christine’s, between 12th and 13th Streets.”
“Sure, how many do you want?”
“Get me four,” Thomas says handing him forty dollars. “Hurry up.”
Normally he wouldn’t trust someone with his cash, having been burned a number of times before, but he knows Void pretty well. The two of them are as close to being friends as people can get and still be strung out, and besides, if Void knows he’s going to get some coke, he’ll be there. He’s a fiend who would rather get both.
Like his now-dead friend Dan had been once, Void is another rare find.
The coke store Thomas goes to is on 12th St., just across Ave. A. It only takes him 5 minutes to get there, conduct his business, and get back to Christine’s. He arrives almost the same moment as Void, and they walk in together.
Neither of them look too respectable. The restaurant staff eye them both with suspicion and just a bit of revulsion, but no one stops them from taking a seat at a table in the dining area.
“Let me go first, man,” Void says as soon as they are seated. “I’m really sick. I’m going to throw up right here if I don’t do a shot soon.”
It’s not a lot different for Thomas, who can feel his stomach clenching and bubbling in anticipation. But he knows Void is in far worse shape so agrees to wait at the table for Void to go to the toilet first. One of them has to wait with all their bags while the other gets straight.
“Yeah, all right already, just go.”
“The guy said this is a new batch, that it’s very good, and strong,” Void says under his breath.
“Yeah, they always say that it’s the best. You know that. It’d be nice though if it’s better than what they’ve had recently, that’s for sure.” Thomas isn’t too hopeful. As long as it gets him straight, he doesn’t much care. “Hurry up. Don’t take forever, ‘cause I want to go too.”
“Can I have some coke for my shot?” Void asks, still not moving.
“Hell no. I’ll give you some later, but if you do it now, I’ll be out here an hour waiting for you. Fuck that.” There’s no anger in his voice, it’s just that Thomas knows how it is on coke sometimes. “I promise, I’ll give you some a little later. Now go, hurry up.”
Void goes to the bathroom, leaving Thomas at the table. A waitress comes over right after Void walks away, so to keep the place happy, and to feed the both of them a little something, Thomas orders two soups and coffees. By the time Void comes back to the table, Thomas is almost finished with his soup and very impatient.
“About fucking time, Void.” Thomas snarls as Void tries to pull out a chair. He misjudges the distance, pulls it too far, then sits in such a way as to send both it and himself crashing to the floor.
Thomas can’t help it, and laughs out loud. Still chuckling, he bends down and gives Void a hand up. As he lifts, he notices Void is not responding well, that his eyes are way fucked up, glassy and very pinned.
“Hey, you’re not going to nod here at the table and get us thrown out, are you?” He watches Void struggling to keep his eyes open. “You ok?”
“Oh, come on man, you know me, I’m good. Go ahead.” Void slurs out as he picks up his coffee, sloshing a third of it onto the table.
Thomas can’t wait any longer. He has to trust that Void will be OK, and goes to take his turn. The toilet stalls are well used by regular customers of the dope spot around the corner. Thomas is frequently one of those. He knows the restaurant well, knows he should have time to relax and go slow without having a manager in too quickly. He gets out his stuff and mixes up a shot in short order. Right as he has the vein, just about to boot, there comes a firm knock on the door of the stall, then an older man’s heavily accented voice.
“Hey! That your friend at the table? He dead! We call Police, they coming now. You hurry!”
Thomas pushes in the shot before he realizes what the old guy said. Then as the drugs take hold the old guy’s words sink in, giving Thomas the simultaneous rush of the incredibly strong drugs and the disbelief and shock at what’s just been said to him through the closed toilet stall door. The coke rush barely tops the dope. The dealer was telling Void the truth, because the dope feels stronger than any he’s yet found in NYC. Fast as he can in the shape he’s in, he puts everything away and cleans himself up. He wants to be out of the toilet before the cops arrive, not wanting any more attention than he’s already going to have with a dead, overdosed friend on the floor. That’s already more than he wants.
He gets to the table as quickly as he can. Sure enough, Void is on the floor, half under the table, not moving. Thomas crouches down and shakes him. “Wake the hell up man, the cops are coming.” This has absolutely no effect, so he tries smacking him on the cheeks, one after the other. Again there’s nothing. Void’s tattooed face and lips are by now turning a weirder shade of blue, and Thomas can’t find any sign of breathing or a pulse. He pushes the table back, pulls Void’s body so he’s lying stretched out on his back, and considers giving him mouth to mouth resuscitation or even CPR. Luckily he doesn’t have to as he’s abruptly pushed aside by two eager paramedics, all bustle and business.
“Overdose,” says the one who pushed Thomas. “What’d he take?”
“He told me he was sick, and was going to score a bag. I think he only did one. That’s all the money he had, ten bucks.” Thomas is thinking that when the coke he himself shot in that speedball wears off, he’s also going to be very stoned, and doesn’t want to be dealing with the police. They’d arrived with the paramedics, and now they start to question him.
“Where’d he get it? You got any yourself, kid?” One bored cop asks.
“I don’t know where he got it, and no, I don’t.” Thomas sees no need for complete honesty here.
Down on the floor the paramedics aren’t having any more luck than had Thomas in getting Void to respond. One of them reaches into the box of medical supplies he’d brought in, and starts rummaging around.
“His girlfriend lives right across the street. I’m going to run see if she’s there, because I’m not going to the hospital with him. She should know anyway.” The cops agree it’s a good idea, so Thomas runs to her apartment. Finding her home, he quickly convinces her to come with him, explaining along the way what’s going on.
By the time they get back to the restaurant, the paramedic is holding a loaded hypodermic in his hand, preparing to administer it to Void.
“What’s that, Narcan?” Thomas asks.
“That’s right,” says the paramedic. “He’s a lucky guy.” He shoots the stuff into Void’s upper arm. “Thirty seconds, just wait. This stuff is magic.”
Thomas doesn’t think Void is going to feel so lucky when he wakes up. Yeah, he’s alive, but he’d just gotten straight. Now he’s going to be really sick. Narcan completely clears the system of any vestige of the drug and it’s effects, at least temporarily, leaving the patient agonizingly ill.
After exactly thirty seconds, Void’s eyes shoot open. The first words out of his mouth are, “I’m all right, I’m all right.” He’s not even aware he’s been dead, at least not immediately, but confusion is evident on his face. It’s obvious something is wrong. He looks up at the paramedics and cops. “Oh shit.”
“Just lie there for a minute, kid. Relax.” One of the paramedics tells Void, who’s struggling to get to his feet. “Give it a minute, you just had a close call.”
“So now what?” Thomas interrupts one of the cops, who’s making disparaging remarks about junkies and losers to his partner. “Is he going to be OK?”
“Yeah, he’ll be fine. They’ve got to take him in to the hospital ‘cause they gave him a shot. It’s the law. They work on you, you ride with them.” The cop doesn’t look at Thomas, so Thomas doesn’t say anything else.
Void is helped out of the door by the paramedics. Void’s girlfriend goes with him. Thomas can hear her soothing Void, giving comfort, and almost feels a pang of jealousy. He can’t imagine his girlfiend acting thus for him. The cops are speaking with the restaurant staff, writing in their little black books and ignoring him, so Thomas decides it’s definitely time for him to go.
No one pays him any mind as he picks up his bag and coat, and walks out the front door onto 1st Ave.
“Damn I’m glad I’m not Void right now,” he thinks, watching the ambulance drive away. Narcan does not look like a fun experience. If Void had been in a park somewhere, he wouldn’t have had to go through that. Most probably he would have simply slept through the dope, then woken up tomorrow sick, ready to start again. Which is of course exactly what’s going to happen. Thomas knows he’ll bump into Void again soon, sick as hell out looking for drugs. This close call won’t change a thing.
It doesn’t occur to Thomas how close he himself came to lying on the floor being treated by the paramedics.
Thomas shakes his head, then heads to Tompkins Square to do some more of his own stuff, stopping along the way to tell another couple of fiends he knows that “Rush is damned good today.”
Tompkins Sq. Park
Peace all,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 11:22 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route you take it

Jim, I did some research and my findings are as follows…
What is the difference between naltrexone and naloxone?
Functionally, they are the same type of drug. They compete with heroin at the receptor level and block the effect of heroin. Naloxone is administered intravenously and lasts for approximately 20 minutes. Naltrexone is administered orally (pill form) and can last for 1 to 2 days.
No  matter what name they use it is still some bad shit for addicts!
They are now using Naltrexone in alcoholism treatment!
Callie

> ATTACHMENT part 2 image/jpeg name=shooter2.jpg

> ATTACHMENT part 3 image/jpeg name=tompkinstable2.JPG
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From: iboga@ziplip.com <iboga@ziplip.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine](ot)acetaminophen (a-seat-a-MIN-oh-fen)
Date: July 23, 2004 at 2:08:30 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Sara and mindvoxians,
thank you for taking the time to reply, it means allot.  But This isn’t over the counter acetaminophone, in fact, I would very much prefer acetaminopen  not be included in the pills at all but they didn’t ask me.  I’m referring to them putting all that acetaminophen seems really dangerous as their is no warning label about this, putting all the acetaminophen in  the fioricet/butalbital(barbituate), the hydrocodone, and the darvocet/propxyphne, is what I was referring to.  Which I must say have givin me a nice 4 or so hour really needed releaf from all this ache, even if temperary, it’s nice to have a break sometime, but I know the law of deminishing returns is multiplied in opioids or opiates (I don’t remeber the conclusion on that).  Anyways.  I Hope everyone is doing well and is in good spirits.  Also, does anyone know what the deadline to register to vote is?  I have a ton of cards I need to re-suppply head shops and I could really like to know if that would be wasting my time, I’ve heard 90 days, is that correct?
Be Well,
Jason
—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt <sara119@xs4all.nl>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: 23 Jul 04, 10:51 AM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] (ot)acetaminophen (a-seat-a-MIN-oh-fen)
When I had my wisdom teeth taken out ,  I had a over the counter pain killer just before bed time.
During day time I had to wash my mouth over and over again with warm water and sea salt, chamomile tea.
You will get your brain activated by feeling the pain and your brain will reduce the pain by it self.
Don’t think about it too much , go to an acupuncturist after the treatment, it will do you good to find new ways
To deal pain, I think, unless you find that nothing works as good as acetaminophen.

Take care,
S.

Van: deartheo@ziplip.com [mailto:deartheo@ziplip.com] 
Verzonden: vrijdag 23 juli 2004 17:43
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: [ibogaine] (ot)acetaminophen (a-seat-a-MIN-oh-fen)

I’m getting 4 wisdom teeth cut out in 30 days, supposed to have happened yesterday bud didn’t, growing into jaw, infected and headaches (never had one in my entire life) that are really fun.  That’s not what is interesting though….
Again, 30 days untill cut out so they give 2 weeks worth of pain medication.  All three have acetaminophen in them one that has 350 says to take every 4 hours, another is 650 and says use as needed for pain, and the third has 500 and says as needed for pain.  I did some looking around, and correct me if I’m wrong, but it doesn’t take much to overdose on acetaminophen like 3,000 or 4,000 is really pushing it from what I’ve read.  Anyone know about this?

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] AnyoneFormer’done gone2Bupe (treatment in Turkey)
Date: July 23, 2004 at 2:46:19 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Damn, FP,

It sounds like Turkey is about 50 years behind the times.

Like Preston, I am curious on the Cannabis laws over there, with all that tasty turkish hashish to be had?

If you become registered as an addict, do they allow you to leave the country?

Peace,
_.dh

On Thursday, July 22, 2004, at 10:23 PM, FakePlacebo wrote:

My Friend Jim,

It’s sounds so strange for me that hear from you about detoxing way of detox center in the western world. I think it’s only in my country. In here Turkey there is an official addiction treating center wich name is AMATEM. to hear that name  gives all the addicts  fright and horor. Beacuse thing they call it treatment is just lock you in a empty room and let you alone without sometimes even one glass of water; until you became “clean”. After you stay there around ten fucking days they register you as an addict in the govrentment records and you can’t get a job, driving licance and civil rights like voting.

There is no medical or mentaly support in AMATEM. Once you registered as an addict you’r dead thats all. The addicts put the name of this treatment: “concret treatment” beacuse of the empty cold concret room. But if you are rich (very rich) there is few clean, good, comfortable detox centers in Turkey.

They treated me in AMATEM  for three times. ( they get me there by the police force) But I was lucky 10 years ago there was no computer to keep records and records totaly lost beacuse of conflagration.

Best Regards
FakePlacebo

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route you take it
Date: July 23, 2004 at 2:15:21 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>Naloxone is administered intravenously and lasts for approximately 20 minutes.<

This is Narcan, right, this Naloxone?

>No matter what name they use it is still some bad shit for addicts!<
Other than for the fa ct it can and has saved a number of lives, I agree in that Narcan is not a pleasent drug to be given as an opiate addict, or so I’ve been lead to believe from  seeing it given right in front of me- a few here may even be able to give us even more first hand accounts that I have in the following. I’ve probably posted this before, but so what? There are a few newish subscribers who may not have seen this, so I post it again, at risk of repeating myself and in hopes of entertaining some of you:
snip-
>“What’s that, Narcan?” Thomas asks.
“That’s right,” says the paramedic. “He’s a lucky guy.” He shoots the stuff into Void’s upper arm. “Thirty seconds, just wait. This stuff is magic.”
Thomas doesn’t think Void is going to feel so lucky when he wakes up. Yeah, he’s alive, but he’d just gotten straight. Now he’s going to be really sick. <
end snip-
Full story:
http://www.drugwar.com/PrestonPeetIndex.shtm
Narcan- 
Bringing the Dead Back to Life
chapter 20 of “Something in the Way”
copyright 2001
by Preston Peet

posted Halloween, 2002

“Why is it whenever I’m broke they’re everywhere, but when I’ve got cash, I can’t find anyone?”
“Yeah well, at least you’ve got money. All I got are these two lousy videos. Oh, hold on a second.”
Thomas watches his friend Void run over to a couple of fences standing by St. Marks, and 2nd Ave., and try to sell them the videotapes, to no avail.
Thomas was exiting a building at the corner of Lafayette and Houston Streets after selling some freshly-stolen Shitake mushrooms as Magic mushrooms, calling them “Colorado Gold Tops.” Some guys he’d approached on their way to a club near Fourteenth St. the night before had given him a business card with their work number on it, telling him to call after Thomas had mentioned he could get really good mushrooms. As soon as he’d woken up this morning, he’d run to a phone and given them a call. Setting up the deal had been little trouble. Thomas plays to his victims’ greed, offering them deals better than any they’ll know of anywhere, yet not so much better that the vics get suspicious. He depends on this kind of scam for almost his entire livelihood. From necessity he’s gotten very good at separating people from their money.
Stepping out the office building’s front door, flush with the feeling of success and a good sum of cash, Thomas’ mind was focused on going to score. He’d not seen Void standing there until he’d literally bumped into him.
“Hey, what’s up Void? ‘Scuse me, I’m on a mission. Didn’t see you.” Void seemed to be just standing there. “What are you doing, spanging?”
“Oh no, I need to sell these movies.” Void held out the films, still in their new, shrink-wrapped boxes. “I’m really sick. I need to get straight, bad. I’m gonna come with you, ‘cause hopefully by the time you score, I’ll have sold these.”
Thomas hadn’t been so sure of that, and he’s still not too sure, but he likes Void. Thomas decides that he’ll help get him straight if Void can’t sell the videos. If it comes to that. Thomas doesn’t say this aloud, as there’s the chance Void’ll pull it off, but won’t try as hard if he thinks he’s already covered.
Everyone on the street has their own scam, their own game they play to get what they need. It’s deadly real to the people playing, never feeling much like a game to Thomas anymore. He just happens to make a bit more money than most with his particular scam, enabling him to build a bigger habit.
Void rejoins him. They continue walking down St. Marks to Tompkins Sq., heading through to the opposite side of the park. Unbelievably, none of the spots they pass are open. There’s nobody out doing any selling. Void doesn’t mind as he hasn’t sold the tapes yet, but Thomas is pissed. There’d been dealers out and about not one hour before as he’d been on his way to sell the shrooms. Now there’s no one.
“What about 13th Street? Rush?” Void asks. “How’s that been?”
“It hasn’t been so good the last few days, garbage really.” Thomas answers. “I don’t know if they’re even open yet. It’s only what, Two o’clock, right?”
Thomas doesn’t want to walk over to 13th Street. Walking is beginning to be a chore. He can feel the lack of dope in him, draining his energy reserves. Void is even worse off, but therefore more willing to put the effort into going the four blocks out of the way. There’s nothing for it except to go along, and Thomas does, grudgingly.
They head straight up 10th St. to 1st Ave., and turn right. At 12th, one block before they reach the spot, Void unloads the two tapes to someone at an incense table, making himself the ten bucks he needs for a bag. Thomas is amazed. He hadn’t expected Void to do it, not after failing the entire walk.
“Void, why don’t you go get the dope while I go around the block and score some coke? We’ll meet at the Polish restaurant, Christine’s, between 12th and 13th Streets.”
“Sure, how many do you want?”
“Get me four,” Thomas says handing him forty dollars. “Hurry up.”
Normally he wouldn’t trust someone with his cash, having been burned a number of times before, but he knows Void pretty well. The two of them are as close to being friends as people can get and still be strung out, and besides, if Void knows he’s going to get some coke, he’ll be there. He’s a fiend who would rather get both.
Like his now-dead friend Dan had been once, Void is another rare find.
The coke store Thomas goes to is on 12th St., just across Ave. A. It only takes him 5 minutes to get there, conduct his business, and get back to Christine’s. He arrives almost the same moment as Void, and they walk in together.
Neither of them look too respectable. The restaurant staff eye them both with suspicion and just a bit of revulsion, but no one stops them from taking a seat at a table in the dining area.
“Let me go first, man,” Void says as soon as they are seated. “I’m really sick. I’m going to throw up right here if I don’t do a shot soon.”
It’s not a lot different for Thomas, who can feel his stomach clenching and bubbling in anticipation. But he knows Void is in far worse shape so agrees to wait at the table for Void to go to the toilet first. One of them has to wait with all their bags while the other gets straight.
“Yeah, all right already, just go.”
“The guy said this is a new batch, that it’s very good, and strong,” Void says under his breath.
“Yeah, they always say that it’s the best. You know that. It’d be nice though if it’s better than what they’ve had recently, that’s for sure.” Thomas isn’t too hopeful. As long as it gets him straight, he doesn’t much care. “Hurry up. Don’t take forever, ‘cause I want to go too.”
“Can I have some coke for my shot?” Void asks, still not moving.
“Hell no. I’ll give you some later, but if you do it now, I’ll be out here an hour waiting for you. Fuck that.” There’s no anger in his voice, it’s just that Thomas knows how it is on coke sometimes. “I promise, I’ll give you some a little later. Now go, hurry up.”
Void goes to the bathroom, leaving Thomas at the table. A waitress comes over right after Void walks away, so to keep the place happy, and to feed the both of them a little something, Thomas orders two soups and coffees. By the time Void comes back to the table, Thomas is almost finished with his soup and very impatient.
“About fucking time, Void.” Thomas snarls as Void tries to pull out a chair. He misjudges the distance, pulls it too far, then sits in such a way as to send both it and himself crashing to the floor.
Thomas can’t help it, and laughs out loud. Still chuckling, he bends down and gives Void a hand up. As he lifts, he notices Void is not responding well, that his eyes are way fucked up, glassy and very pinned.
“Hey, you’re not going to nod here at the table and get us thrown out, are you?” He watches Void struggling to keep his eyes open. “You ok?”
“Oh, come on man, you know me, I’m good. Go ahead.” Void slurs out as he picks up his coffee, sloshing a third of it onto the table.
Thomas can’t wait any longer. He has to trust that Void will be OK, and goes to take his turn. The toilet stalls are well used by regular customers of the dope spot around the corner. Thomas is frequently one of those. He knows the restaurant well, knows he should have time to relax and go slow without having a manager in too quickly. He gets out his stuff and mixes up a shot in short order. Right as he has the vein, just about to boot, there comes a firm knock on the door of the stall, then an older man’s heavily accented voice.
“Hey! That your friend at the table? He dead! We call Police, they coming now. You hurry!”
Thomas pushes in the shot before he realizes what the old guy said. Then as the drugs take hold the old guy’s words sink in, giving Thomas the simultaneous rush of the incredibly strong drugs and the disbelief and shock at what’s just been said to him through the closed toilet stall door. The coke rush barely tops the dope. The dealer was telling Void the truth, because the dope feels stronger than any he’s yet found in NYC. Fast as he can in the shape he’s in, he puts everything away and cleans himself up. He wants to be out of the toilet before the cops arrive, not wanting any more attention than he’s already going to have with a dead, overdosed friend on the floor. That’s already more than he wants.
He gets to the table as quickly as he can. Sure enough, Void is on the floor, half under the table, not moving. Thomas crouches down and shakes him. “Wake the hell up man, the cops are coming.” This has absolutely no effect, so he tries smacking him on the cheeks, one after the other. Again there’s nothing. Void’s tattooed face and lips are by now turning a weirder shade of blue, and Thomas can’t find any sign of breathing or a pulse. He pushes the table back, pulls Void’s body so he’s lying stretched out on his back, and considers giving him mouth to mouth resuscitation or even CPR. Luckily he doesn’t have to as he’s abruptly pushed aside by two eager paramedics, all bustle and business.
“Overdose,” says the one who pushed Thomas. “What’d he take?”
“He told me he was sick, and was going to score a bag. I think he only did one. That’s all the money he had, ten bucks.” Thomas is thinking that when the coke he himself shot in that speedball wears off, he’s also going to be very stoned, and doesn’t want to be dealing with the police. They’d arrived with the paramedics, and now they start to question him.
“Where’d he get it? You got any yourself, kid?” One bored cop asks.
“I don’t know where he got it, and no, I don’t.” Thomas sees no need for complete honesty here.
Down on the floor the paramedics aren’t having any more luck than had Thomas in getting Void to respond. One of them reaches into the box of medical supplies he’d brought in, and starts rummaging around.
“His girlfriend lives right across the street. I’m going to run see if she’s there, because I’m not going to the hospital with him. She should know anyway.” The cops agree it’s a good idea, so Thomas runs to her apartment. Finding her home, he quickly convinces her to come with him, explaining along the way what’s going on.
By the time they get back to the restaurant, the paramedic is holding a loaded hypodermic in his hand, preparing to administer it to Void.
“What’s that, Narcan?” Thomas asks.
“That’s right,” says the paramedic. “He’s a lucky guy.” He shoots the stuff into Void’s upper arm. “Thirty seconds, just wait. This stuff is magic.”
Thomas doesn’t think Void is going to feel so lucky when he wakes up. Yeah, he’s alive, but he’d just gotten straight. Now he’s going to be really sick. Narcan completely clears the system of any vestige of the drug and it’s effects, at least temporarily, leaving the patient agonizingly ill.
After exactly thirty seconds, Void’s eyes shoot open. The first words out of his mouth are, “I’m all right, I’m all right.” He’s not even aware he’s been dead, at least not immediately, but confusion is evident on his face. It’s obvious something is wrong. He looks up at the paramedics and cops. “Oh shit.”
“Just lie there for a minute, kid. Relax.” One of the paramedics tells Void, who’s struggling to get to his feet. “Give it a minute, you just had a close call.”
“So now what?” Thomas interrupts one of the cops, who’s making disparaging remarks about junkies and losers to his partner. “Is he going to be OK?”
“Yeah, he’ll be fine. They’ve got to take him in to the hospital ‘cause they gave him a shot. It’s the law. They work on you, you ride with them.” The cop doesn’t look at Thomas, so Thomas doesn’t say anything else.
Void is helped out of the door by the paramedics. Void’s girlfriend goes with him. Thomas can hear her soothing Void, giving comfort, and almost feels a pang of jealousy. He can’t imagine his girlfiend acting thus for him. The cops are speaking with the restaurant staff, writing in their little black books and ignoring him, so Thomas decides it’s definitely time for him to go.
No one pays him any mind as he picks up his bag and coat, and walks out the front door onto 1st Ave.
“Damn I’m glad I’m not Void right now,” he thinks, watching the ambulance drive away. Narcan does not look like a fun experience. If Void had been in a park somewhere, he wouldn’t have had to go through that. Most probably he would have simply slept through the dope, then woken up tomorrow sick, ready to start again. Which is of course exactly what’s going to happen. Thomas knows he’ll bump into Void again soon, sick as hell out looking for drugs. This close call won’t change a thing.
It doesn’t occur to Thomas how close he himself came to lying on the floor being treated by the paramedics.
Thomas shakes his head, then heads to Tompkins Square to do some more of his own stuff, stopping along the way to tell another couple of fiends he knows that “Rush is damned good today.”
Tompkins Sq. Park
Peace all,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 11:22 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route you take it

Jim, I did some research and my findings are as follows…
What is the difference between naltrexone and naloxone?
Functionally, they are the same type of drug. They compete with heroin at the receptor level and block the effect of heroin. Naloxone is administered intravenously and lasts for approximately 20 minutes. Naltrexone is administered orally (pill form) and can last for 1 to 2 days.
No  matter what name they use it is still some bad shit for addicts!
They are now using Naltrexone in alcoholism treatment!
Callie

From: iboga@ziplip.com <iboga@ziplip.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] *Sorelmathers*Re: mcorcoran
Date: July 23, 2004 at 1:53:09 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I would not likely ever do ibogaine again.  but I have no doubt in my mind that I will and likely continue to do iboga root (likely as extract) for spiritual objectives.  It is a temple, a home.  And it helps focus priorities at least in me.  Why people keep doing ibogaine, I guess they would have to say.
Jason
—–Original Message—–
From: Sorel Mathers [mailto:sorelmathers@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004, 9:04 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran

This is what always set me off again I’d find a reason
it was ok to use, after I did it then it was easy to
come up with reasons to keep my run going because id
already messed up so why not. Thanks for this it makes
me feel better to know that this is the same after
ibogaine for everyone. I some of the time have a hard
time trying to imagine some of the people on this list
as junkies. I know you all were but it always looks
like it is a long road from where I am to get to
anywhere near out of all this.
I know your not going to be reading now this but it is
for anyone who has done ibogaine before, your quote in
jama is “the first time I did ibogaine it was like
dying and going to hell 1000 times” but youve done it
so many times since then.
Is it hard to do ibogaine to deal with what you go
through when you go? Some people are syaing they do it
once and never again but the more I read the more I
see more then a few of you do it a lot more then once.
some of you a lot more then once. I cant imagine
putting yourself through that when you dont have to.
why do any of you keep doing it do you get more from
it when you do it again so many times?

— “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> wrote:

Dude,

If it’s any consolation, nearly 5 years later I feel
exactly the same
way.  If I iz superman … narcotic analgesics =
kryptonite.

I’ve had oral surgery and teeFs implanted without
anything ‘cept Vioxx
and acetaminophen.  Ouch.  It hurtS It hurtS!!@!!!
“I’m sure, I just
sawed down your gums and screwed teeth into your
jawbone!  Don’t worry,
I’ll write you for some Percocet!”  Uh … this is
the part where I
EXPLAIN that Percs don’t work for me, but there is
this thing called
Dilaudid which truly rocks!  “Ok, I’ll write you for
that!”  And then
… and theN, then comes the BEST PART where I do
one.  Realize I’m not
clean anymore anyway, so why not toss 5 into a
cooker, cold shake, bang
up, and PRESTO!!!!  The romance begins again!!!
Wooo HooOOooOOooOO.  I
love dope!!!

Uh … pardon me, calming down.  It’s late, just …
telling myself a
happy little story.  Don’t read any of that.

So, uhm, basically … everything you said makes
perfect sense to me!
Just make sure you’re utterly fucked up when you get
on the plane.
Skip the guilt, and enjoy your flight!  I sure did
my last time.

In other words: I think … everything you’re
thinking, feeling, and
experiencing … is shit that everybody who has made
it, has also felt.

None of it prevents you from stepping out of drug
dependence.  You’re
perfectly normal … for a dopefiend.  What I’m
saying is … 5 years
later.  All the thoughts going through your head,
are no different than
what passes through mine, or anybody else’s — who
has managed to clean
up.

Fuck everybody, do the ibogaine, see what it gives
you, and then after
that, start taking some advice.  If at all possible.

If intellectual understanding of what you’re doing
was enough to stop.
Well, you really wouldn’t need to do ibogaine in the
first place.

Peace dude, and enjoy.  It’s a cool plane of
existence to visit.

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Vote for the stars of Yahoo!’s next ad campaign!
http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/yahoo/votelifeengine/

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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] (ot)acetaminophen (a-seat-a-MIN-oh-fen)
Date: July 23, 2004 at 1:33:33 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

When I had my wisdom teeth taken out ,  I had a over the counter pain killer just before bed time.
During day time I had to wash my mouth over and over again with warm water and sea salt, chamomile tea.
You will get your brain activated by feeling the pain and your brain will reduce the pain by it self.
Don’t think about it too much , go to an acupuncturist after the treatment, it will do you good to find new ways
To deal pain, I think, unless you find that nothing works as good as acetaminophen.

Take care,
S.

Van: deartheo@ziplip.com [mailto:deartheo@ziplip.com] 
Verzonden: vrijdag 23 juli 2004 17:43
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: [ibogaine] (ot)acetaminophen (a-seat-a-MIN-oh-fen)

I’m getting 4 wisdom teeth cut out in 30 days, supposed to have happened yesterday bud didn’t, growing into jaw, infected and headaches (never had one in my entire life) that are really fun.  That’s not what is interesting though….
Again, 30 days untill cut out so they give 2 weeks worth of pain medication.  All three have acetaminophen in them one that has 350 says to take every 4 hours, another is 650 and says use as needed for pain, and the third has 500 and says as needed for pain.  I did some looking around, and correct me if I’m wrong, but it doesn’t take much to overdose on acetaminophen like 3,000 or 4,000 is really pushing it from what I’ve read.  Anyone know about this?
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This is Me
Date: July 23, 2004 at 1:20:10 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

LOL!
Great photo FP. ;l-)))
Now how am I going to keep all these faces straight…errr, no, never go
straight, always go forward…how am I going to keep them assigned in my
mind to the proper poster? There’s too many! Argh!
I’m kidding. I’m realy enjoying seeing all these faces put to their
various owners.
Ok, back to work stuff.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: FakePlacebo
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 4:55 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] This is Me

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From: <gboy@hush.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] fakeplacebo
Date: July 23, 2004 at 12:43:01 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—–
Hash: SHA1

Fakeplacebo what is it like your country for
marijuana laws what happens if you get caught
with it? if it sucks so bad can you move out
or do you have to stay there because of your
family?

.g
—–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—–
Note: This signature can be verified at https://www.hushtools.com/verify
Version: Hush 2.4

wkYEARECAAYFAkEBQBQACgkQxuwtmNNEJvT43ACePj0nVoiq0hYQsVExODxLEGEY2PgA
oLaM9kmHbLkr1ezD5A3LtlECXboD
=1vUL
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From: “FakePlacebo” <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] (ot)acetaminophen (a-seat-a-MIN-oh-fen)
Date: July 23, 2004 at 11:58:57 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Your body can tolerate that doses but don’t go over 4000 mg per day. It could reason for liver harm. This is not the best painkiler in your case.
—– Original Message —–
From: deartheo@ziplip.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 6:43 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] (ot)acetaminophen (a-seat-a-MIN-oh-fen)

I’m getting 4 wisdom teeth cut out in 30 days, supposed to have happened yesterday bud didn’t, growing into jaw, infected and headaches (never had one in my entire life) that are really fun.  That’s not what is interesting though….
Again, 30 days untill cut out so they give 2 weeks worth of pain medication.  All three have acetaminophen in them one that has 350 says to take every 4 hours, another is 650 and says use as needed for pain, and the third has 500 and says as needed for pain.  I did some looking around, and correct me if I’m wrong, but it doesn’t take much to overdose on acetaminophen like 3,000 or 4,000 is really pushing it from what I’ve read.  Anyone know about this?

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From: Sorel Mathers <sorelmathers@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran
Date: July 23, 2004 at 11:46:15 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This is what always set me off again I’d find a reason
it was ok to use, after I did it then it was easy to
come up with reasons to keep my run going because id
already messed up so why not. Thanks for this it makes
me feel better to know that this is the same after
ibogaine for everyone. I some of the time have a hard
time trying to imagine some of the people on this list
as junkies. I know you all were but it always looks
like it is a long road from where I am to get to
anywhere near out of all this.
I know your not going to be reading now this but it is
for anyone who has done ibogaine before, your quote in
jama is “the first time I did ibogaine it was like
dying and going to hell 1000 times” but youve done it
so many times since then.
Is it hard to do ibogaine to deal with what you go
through when you go? Some people are syaing they do it
once and never again but the more I read the more I
see more then a few of you do it a lot more then once.
some of you a lot more then once. I cant imagine
putting yourself through that when you dont have to.
why do any of you keep doing it do you get more from
it when you do it again so many times?

— “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> wrote:

Dude,

If it’s any consolation, nearly 5 years later I feel
exactly the same
way.  If I iz superman … narcotic analgesics =
kryptonite.

I’ve had oral surgery and teeFs implanted without
anything ‘cept Vioxx
and acetaminophen.  Ouch.  It hurtS It hurtS!!@!!!
“I’m sure, I just
sawed down your gums and screwed teeth into your
jawbone!  Don’t worry,
I’ll write you for some Percocet!”  Uh … this is
the part where I
EXPLAIN that Percs don’t work for me, but there is
this thing called
Dilaudid which truly rocks!  “Ok, I’ll write you for
that!”  And then
… and theN, then comes the BEST PART where I do
one.  Realize I’m not
clean anymore anyway, so why not toss 5 into a
cooker, cold shake, bang
up, and PRESTO!!!!  The romance begins again!!!
Wooo HooOOooOOooOO.  I
love dope!!!

Uh … pardon me, calming down.  It’s late, just …
telling myself a
happy little story.  Don’t read any of that.

So, uhm, basically … everything you said makes
perfect sense to me!
Just make sure you’re utterly fucked up when you get
on the plane.
Skip the guilt, and enjoy your flight!  I sure did
my last time.

In other words: I think … everything you’re
thinking, feeling, and
experiencing … is shit that everybody who has made
it, has also felt.

None of it prevents you from stepping out of drug
dependence.  You’re
perfectly normal … for a dopefiend.  What I’m
saying is … 5 years
later.  All the thoughts going through your head,
are no different than
what passes through mine, or anybody else’s — who
has managed to clean
up.

Fuck everybody, do the ibogaine, see what it gives
you, and then after
that, start taking some advice.  If at all possible.

If intellectual understanding of what you’re doing
was enough to stop.
Well, you really wouldn’t need to do ibogaine in the
first place.

Peace dude, and enjoy.  It’s a cool plane of
existence to visit.

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Vote for the stars of Yahoo!’s next ad campaign!
http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/yahoo/votelifeengine/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
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From: <deartheo@ziplip.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] (ot)acetaminophen (a-seat-a-MIN-oh-fen)
Date: July 23, 2004 at 11:43:19 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m getting 4 wisdom teeth cut out in 30 days, supposed to have happened yesterday bud didn’t, growing into jaw, infected and headaches (never had one in my entire life) that are really fun.  That’s not what is interesting though….
Again, 30 days untill cut out so they give 2 weeks worth of pain medication.  All three have acetaminophen in them one that has 350 says to take every 4 hours, another is 650 and says use as needed for pain, and the third has 500 and says as needed for pain.  I did some looking around, and correct me if I’m wrong, but it doesn’t take much to overdose on acetaminophen like 3,000 or 4,000 is really pushing it from what I’ve read.  Anyone know about this?
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Naloxone/Naltrexone- difference is only the route you take it
Date: July 23, 2004 at 11:22:02 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jim, I did some research and my findings are as follows…
What is the difference between naltrexone and naloxone?
Functionally, they are the same type of drug. They compete with heroin at the receptor level and block the effect of heroin. Naloxone is administered intravenously and lasts for approximately 20 minutes. Naltrexone is administered orally (pill form) and can last for 1 to 2 days.
No  matter what name they use it is still some bad shit for addicts!
They are now using Naltrexone in alcoholism treatment!
Callie

From: <deartheo@ziplip.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] (ot) nice animation, where’s tribe?
Date: July 23, 2004 at 11:20:03 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://w1.736.telia.com/~u73602493/flashback.html
nice one, I love illusions of motion with sound, one that I liked allot after dosing iboga extract was Coldcut’s video for song called Timber and the other ones on the cd aren’t bad, I think you can get some good video sampling software from them but that was almost 10 years ago now.  I’m sure Adobe is best?  But any good software that is good and free?
I would love to see some Bwiti visual electronic visual art in motion to sound but I’m not sure how they would feel about that…it would be really, really amazing to see though wouldn’t it?  Someone give all the tribes a laptop with good software or get one of those NY art galleries to fund a project.
I had no idea oral surgNs give diladid, I’ll have to see if that is current information ; )

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] AnyoneFormer’done gone2Bupe (treatment in Turkey)
Date: July 23, 2004 at 9:25:00 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi FakePlacebo,

Damn, sounds bad.  At least I had a bed, water and toilet and shower.  I bet you were doing some strong stuff in Turkey.  It is a shame they put you through hell then make it so you can not get a job when you get out.  Like they say “It’s hell without money”

In America, if you are rich you go to places like Betty Ford where they have good food and living conditions.  But I am talking VERY rich.  Like movie star rich.  Here, the people, like homeless people, go to a place where there are maybe 6 beds in a bedroom (3 sets of bunk beds).  A friend who is on parole goes there all the time for 90 days at a time.  It’s still not as bad as what you went through.  I hope you manage to stay clean.

Take Care,

– JIM

FakePlacebo <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com> wrote:
My Friend Jim,

It’s sounds so strange for me that hear from you about detoxing way of detox center in the western world. I think it’s only in my country. In here Turkey there is an official addiction treating center wich name is AMATEM. to hear that name  gives all the addicts  fright and horor. Beacuse thing they call it treatment is just lock you in a empty room and let you alone without sometimes even one glass of water; until you became “clean”. After you stay there around ten fucking days they register you as an addict in the govrentment records and you can’t get a job, driving licance and civil rights like voting.

There is no medical or mentaly support in AMATEM. Once you registered as an addict you’r dead thats all. The addicts put the name of this treatment: “concret treatment” beacuse of the empty cold concret room. But if you are rich (very rich) there is few clean, good, comfortable detox centers in Turkey.

They treated me in AMATEM  for three times. ( they get me there by the police force) But I was lucky 10 years ago there was no computer to keep records and records totaly lost beacuse of conflagration.

Best Regards
FakePlacebo
—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 12:40 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] AnyoneFormer’done gone2Bupe

I think I may of not made myself clear on the last post.  I was in detox and did not go through w/d when given the narcon or naltraxon.  However, if I had cheated and taken a few narcotics in with me it would of been hell.

D.H.  you did the right thing flushing the stuff away.  I am not one to throw away drugs, sorta like throwing away food with all the starving people in the world.  But in 6 months or a year you may of given in to the craving and have to start from square one.  Glad you stayed stright.

– JIM
Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi Callie,

I think there may have a slight mix up. There is Narcan that is the brand name; naloxone which will only bother you if you shoot it up.  You can take it via mouth and the stomach acids will destroy it.  Or so they say.

Naltrexone on the other hand is used by addicts to keep clean, much like antabuse for the alcoholics.  It is a 50 mg pill that is swallowed and last up to day or so.  It is a very dangerous thing to try and override for you feel nothing but then you do just a little bit more then you OD.  But it counteracts the narcotic, thus you feel nothing and do not bother to use.  But you must be clean anywhere from two to three weeks depending on how much you were using.  Then they give you a shot of Narcan VERY slowly before giving you Naltrexone.  The Narcan is a short acting antagonist and you will be in w/d for 4 hours.  If you take Naltrexone you will be in w/d much longer.  At least that is what happened to me in detox.  I could get the Naltrexone for free via mail or pay about $100 for 30 pills.  Well like a fool I sent in through the mail and the cravings got to me before the pills.  But that was many years ago, I got to learn to quit kicking my ass over it.  The detox center was sorta like go in the detox room and suffer, no Imodium, nothing to help you sleep, nothing for nausea, just catapress which did not help much when your doing over $100 per day.  And then it is NA and AA meetings.  Damn was I sick.

If I am wrong on this please, somebody, call it to my attention.

Hey some good news.

A strange thing happeded today.  The first call I made to a doc said they do the bupe thing.  I asked if they used Subutex and they said no they used ??? and damn it I did not catch what she said.  There are two kinds of bupe Subutex and some other kind with the Narcan in it to stop users from shooting it up, just like the Talwin.  If anyone had problems with the Narcan causeing withdrawal please let me know.

I really hate going to new docs, filling out the forms, answering the questions, etc. but if I get the bupe and it helps with the depression I will be happy.  But as one person on the forum said that there are those clinics that just detox you for there is more money to be made than by maintaining you.  So I guess I will just have to go and play it by ear.  I have learned a lot on this forum, I am so glad it is here.  Good luck to everyone.

– JIM

CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 7/22/2004 3:54:39 AM Central Daylight Time, BiscuitBoy714@aol.com writes:
naltrexone reacting to the meth in me

Personally I hate naltrexone use in addiction! It serves no purpose except to make you feel like shit and a bundle of nerves. I feel it should only be used in the Emergency Room and should be used there only in life/death situations!
The folks I know who have taken it in Talwin or was given it in ER for overdoses have NEVER felt like they did before Naltrexone. Kind of like Antabuse and alcohol.
Callie

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] AnyoneFormer’done gone2Bupe (treatment in Turkey)
Date: July 23, 2004 at 9:23:38 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi FakePlacebo,

Damn, sounds bad.  At least I had a bed, water and toilet and shower.  I bet you were doing some strong stuff in Turkey.  It is a shame they put you through hell then make it so you can not get a job when you get out.  Like they say “It’s hell without money”

In America, if you are rich you go to places like Betty Ford where they have good food and living conditions.  But I am talking VERY rich.  Like movie star rich.  Here, the people, like homeless people, go to a place where there are maybe 6 beds in a bedroom (3 sets of bunk beds).  A friend who is on parole goes there all the time for 90 days at a time.  It’s still not as bad as what you went through.  I hope you manage to stay clean.

Take Care,

– JIM

FakePlacebo <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com> wrote:
My Friend Jim,

It’s sounds so strange for me that hear from you about detoxing way of detox center in the western world. I think it’s only in my country. In here Turkey there is an official addiction treating center wich name is AMATEM. to hear that name  gives all the addicts  fright and horor. Beacuse thing they call it treatment is just lock you in a empty room and let you alone without sometimes even one glass of water; until you became “clean”. After you stay there around ten fucking days they register you as an addict in the govrentment records and you can’t get a job, driving licance and civil rights like voting.

There is no medical or mentaly support in AMATEM. Once you registered as an addict you’r dead thats all. The addicts put the name of this treatment: “concret treatment” beacuse of the empty cold concret room. But if you are rich (very rich) there is few clean, good, comfortable detox centers in Turkey.

They treated me in AMATEM  for three times. ( they get me there by the police force) But I was lucky 10 years ago there was no computer to keep records and records totaly lost beacuse of conflagration.

Best Regards
FakePlacebo
—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 12:40 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] AnyoneFormer’done gone2Bupe

I think I may of not made myself clear on the last post.  I was in detox and did not go through w/d when given the narcon or naltraxon.  However, if I had cheated and taken a few narcotics in with me it would of been hell.

D.H.  you did the right thing flushing the stuff away.  I am not one to throw away drugs, sorta like throwing away food with all the starving people in the world.  But in 6 months or a year you may of given in to the craving and have to start from square one.  Glad you stayed stright.

– JIM
Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi Callie,

I think there may have a slight mix up. There is Narcan that is the brand name; naloxone which will only bother you if you shoot it up.  You can take it via mouth and the stomach acids will destroy it.  Or so they say.

Naltrexone on the other hand is used by addicts to keep clean, much like antabuse for the alcoholics.  It is a 50 mg pill that is swallowed and last up to day or so.  It is a very dangerous thing to try and override for you feel nothing but then you do just a little bit more then you OD.  But it counteracts the narcotic, thus you feel nothing and do not bother to use.  But you must be clean anywhere from two to three weeks depending on how much you were using.  Then they give you a shot of Narcan VERY slowly before giving you Naltrexone.  The Narcan is a short acting antagonist and you will be in w/d for 4 hours.  If you take Naltrexone you will be in w/d much longer.  At least that is what happened to me in detox.  I could get the Naltrexone for free via mail or pay about $100 for 30 pills.  Well like a fool I sent in through the mail and the cravings got to me before the pills.  But that was many years ago, I got to learn to quit kicking my ass over it.  The detox center was sorta like go in the detox room and suffer, no Imodium, nothing to help you sleep, nothing for nausea, just catapress which did not help much when your doing over $100 per day.  And then it is NA and AA meetings.  Damn was I sick.

If I am wrong on this please, somebody, call it to my attention.

Hey some good news.

A strange thing happeded today.  The first call I made to a doc said they do the bupe thing.  I asked if they used Subutex and they said no they used ??? and damn it I did not catch what she said.  There are two kinds of bupe Subutex and some other kind with the Narcan in it to stop users from shooting it up, just like the Talwin.  If anyone had problems with the Narcan causeing withdrawal please let me know.

I really hate going to new docs, filling out the forms, answering the questions, etc. but if I get the bupe and it helps with the depression I will be happy.  But as one person on the forum said that there are those clinics that just detox you for there is more money to be made than by maintaining you.  So I guess I will just have to go and play it by ear.  I have learned a lot on this forum, I am so glad it is here.  Good luck to everyone.

– JIM

CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 7/22/2004 3:54:39 AM Central Daylight Time, BiscuitBoy714@aol.com writes:
naltrexone reacting to the meth in me

Personally I hate naltrexone use in addiction! It serves no purpose except to make you feel like shit and a bundle of nerves. I feel it should only be used in the Emergency Room and should be used there only in life/death situations!
The folks I know who have taken it in Talwin or was given it in ER for overdoses have NEVER felt like they did before Naltrexone. Kind of like Antabuse and alcohol.
Callie

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From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Trippy-shit!
Date: July 23, 2004 at 7:37:30 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sorry if I’ve sent this before-my email went down so I don’t think I did!

Check this out!

http://w1.736.telia.com/~u73602493/flashback.html

lol Hannah

From: “FakePlacebo” <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] This is Me
Date: July 23, 2004 at 4:55:10 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

 

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “FakePlacebo” <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] AnyoneFormer’done gone2Bupe (treatment in Turkey)
Date: July 23, 2004 at 4:23:52 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

My Friend Jim,

It’s sounds so strange for me that hear from you about detoxing way of detox center in the western world. I think it’s only in my country. In here Turkey there is an official addiction treating center wich name is AMATEM. to hear that name  gives all the addicts  fright and horor. Beacuse thing they call it treatment is just lock you in a empty room and let you alone without sometimes even one glass of water; until you became “clean”. After you stay there around ten fucking days they register you as an addict in the govrentment records and you can’t get a job, driving licance and civil rights like voting.

There is no medical or mentaly support in AMATEM. Once you registered as an addict you’r dead thats all. The addicts put the name of this treatment: “concret treatment” beacuse of the empty cold concret room. But if you are rich (very rich) there is few clean, good, comfortable detox centers in Turkey.

They treated me in AMATEM  for three times. ( they get me there by the police force) But I was lucky 10 years ago there was no computer to keep records and records totaly lost beacuse of conflagration.

Best Regards
FakePlacebo
—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 12:40 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] AnyoneFormer’done gone2Bupe

I think I may of not made myself clear on the last post.  I was in detox and did not go through w/d when given the narcon or naltraxon.  However, if I had cheated and taken a few narcotics in with me it would of been hell.

D.H.  you did the right thing flushing the stuff away.  I am not one to throw away drugs, sorta like throwing away food with all the starving people in the world.  But in 6 months or a year you may of given in to the craving and have to start from square one.  Glad you stayed stright.

– JIM
Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi Callie,

I think there may have a slight mix up. There is Narcan that is the brand name; naloxone which will only bother you if you shoot it up.  You can take it via mouth and the stomach acids will destroy it.  Or so they say.

Naltrexone on the other hand is used by addicts to keep clean, much like antabuse for the alcoholics.  It is a 50 mg pill that is swallowed and last up to day or so.  It is a very dangerous thing to try and override for you feel nothing but then you do just a little bit more then you OD.  But it counteracts the narcotic, thus you feel nothing and do not bother to use.  But you must be clean anywhere from two to three weeks depending on how much you were using.  Then they give you a shot of Narcan VERY slowly before giving you Naltrexone.  The Narcan is a short acting antagonist and you will be in w/d for 4 hours.  If you take Naltrexone you will be in w/d much longer.  At least that is what happened to me in detox.  I could get the Naltrexone for free via mail or pay about $100 for 30 pills.  Well like a fool I sent in through the mail and the cravings got to me before the pills.  But that was many years ago, I got to learn to quit kicking my ass over it.  The detox center was sorta like go in the detox room and suffer, no Imodium, nothing to help you sleep, nothing for nausea, just catapress which did not help much when your doing over $100 per day.  And then it is NA and AA meetings.  Damn was I sick.

If I am wrong on this please, somebody, call it to my attention.

Hey some good news.

A strange thing happeded today.  The first call I made to a doc said they do the bupe thing.  I asked if they used Subutex and they said no they used ??? and damn it I did not catch what she said.  There are two kinds of bupe Subutex and some other kind with the Narcan in it to stop users from shooting it up, just like the Talwin.  If anyone had problems with the Narcan causeing withdrawal please let me know.

I really hate going to new docs, filling out the forms, answering the questions, etc. but if I get the bupe and it helps with the depression I will be happy.  But as one person on the forum said that there are those clinics that just detox you for there is more money to be made than by maintaining you.  So I guess I will just have to go and play it by ear.  I have learned a lot on this forum, I am so glad it is here.  Good luck to everyone.

– JIM

CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 7/22/2004 3:54:39 AM Central Daylight Time, BiscuitBoy714@aol.com writes:
naltrexone reacting to the meth in me

Personally I hate naltrexone use in addiction! It serves no purpose except to make you feel like shit and a bundle of nerves. I feel it should only be used in the Emergency Room and should be used there only in life/death situations!
The folks I know who have taken it in Talwin or was given it in ER for overdoses have NEVER felt like they did before Naltrexone. Kind of like Antabuse and alcohol.
Callie

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From: Patrick K. Kroupa <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] List Annoucement
Date: July 23, 2004 at 3:40:19 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I think a reasonable goal for the evolution of this list … is: everybody who signs up, should be spontaneously healed.  Right away, if not sooner.

Making a bold, forward-looking statement, I think we can attain this within the next 45 minutes.  Though, perhaps, it may take just a little bit longer.  Maybe even a year, possibly 5.

It’s sumthin’ to shoot for at any rate.

Other than all that: I am outta here for ’bout 5-7 days.  So, thusly, if there is anything EXTREMELY URGENT that requires my attention.  Well, it’ll remain extremely urgent, or, conceivably, even become an ABSOLUTE CRISIS or UTTER DISASTER as time passes, but … I don’t give a fuck.  ComputerZ b4d.

<Handing Shiny Gold Star to Mr. Gamma>: Dave, you’re in charge of everything.  If you experience any problems, Jon Freedlander will help you untangle and solve ALL PROBLEMS that afflict the list in particular, and humanity as a whole.  Whoopsie, no, wait, I forget to make Jon a shell account.  C’est La’vie, shit happens.

Jon, just, ya know, say something soothing.  I will POP my mail once every few days, but I’m really not gonna be replying to anything.  I need a headcheck.

Buh-bye,

Patrick

p.s., The After Ibogaine List and Sacrament will both light up when I get back.  They’re actually already there, but not fully armeD & Operational quite yet.

Dana … we need a downloadable cannabis plug-in.  When will that arrive?

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Hannah Clay” <spaglet@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran
Date: July 23, 2004 at 3:33:17 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Nice words DH, made me cry!  What if you suddenly realise there ain’t no music in your head no more?  And you can’t even be sure what tune it used to be?

I think I’m going through a mid-life crisis at 23!  Its early and I’ve just woken up so please excuse my rambling.  I will put it all in one post though so I don’t cause you all spam!

Basically I grew up through hell-nothing wrong on the surface,  close family, good(ish) results at school (underacheiver!) etc but I was always depressed and even when I was 13 I was known for bein into my weed.  I grew up through alcohol (drunk every day, night usually ended with me crying in a gutter someplace), then E (wow, no more depression!  Oh holy shit-come downs!) and when the high got crap I moved through acid n ‘shrooms,speed onto H and crack.  For the last 5 yrs I’ve been a no-good smackhead! lol.

I don’t know why I’m saying all this-I was just thinking that my problems always been that I’m always dissatisfied.  I always want better.  And if I’m honest-I wanna get there with as little effort as possible!  I watch evryone else get up and go to their 9 to 5 jobs and I don’t want that.  But what do I want?  When I was a kid I wanted to have a gypsy caravan and write books.  Then I found I didn’t have enough of an imagination to write!  Now I think I just read too much-I believed anything was possible and now (at 23!) I feel like nothings possible.  And ofcourse that’s the perfect excuse to have more gear.

God-knows what I meant to say here, sorry!  I’m sure I had a point originally.

Hey, on the opiate detox site I use 2 people posted that you shouldn’t take Ibogaine if you’re a woman-its dangerous!  Where on earth did they get that from?

Sorry for talking rubbish.  I’ll wake up later and just think D’oh!

Hannah

—– Original Message —–
From: D H
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 7:14 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran

Mark,

good stuff being said here.

I’ll ditto Mister Anker, read “keeping clean” on ibogaine.mindvox.com

we are behind you 200%. Some of us have been right where you are now, so this is all good for all of us.

a little quote from my NA Daze:.

“the theraputic value of one addict helping another is without parallel!” Its a two-way street. You are helping me stay clean, right here, right now.

and I’ll say my little getting/keeping clean spiel here for kicks:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
uhm…

If you “relapse/slip/use/stumble/get loaded/fuckup/freakout/fall” -pick yourself back up ASAP, dust yourself off and move on. Avoid getting mired down in guilt, shame, remorse or pity. These are fear-based stumbling blocks and will keep you down.

In staying clean, fear is the enemy.

Avoid letting other peoples/groups opinions/dogmas/judgements weigh you down.

Remember, when you get clean, that monkey on your back (or 900 pound gorilla, or whatever) doesn’t go away. It climbs up into your head.

One of the keys to staying clean is not allowing that monkey in your head to get louder than the music in your heart.

_.dave

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mark,

Don’t beat yourself up about copping. It makes sense that you wanted have one last go with your dear old friend. Time to say goodbye.

Maybe have your mom or a friend clean your place when you go to Mexico, it’ll be nice to come back to a clean home. You will have four to six weeks where there will be this nice wide door open for you to go through and make a new life. It is up to you to go through, and there will be all sorts of energy which can pull you back. Iboga is not a magic pill. Most will relapse. People like us don’t do well with an occasional dabble and you will feel so good and strong that the thought “well I can certainly handle one little shot, now that I’m healed” is not correct. Remember that cravings are like a wave, they come, they go.

If you are the go with god sort, AA can help, but it ain’t for all. It always made me want to go cop. Some people like SMART recovery. The clinic will give you the SMART work book which has some great tools to help you. I’ve found going to a movie helps. Jacking off gets your mind off it. Or if you are feeling loaded for bear, jack off at a movie. Sounds like you will be better off staying off the booze. Weed may help. When you get back to NYC, try Bikram yoga. There are plenty of studios in the city and it will help build the endorphins back up and the sweating will help clean your body up. They give a special for new people, unlimited classes for ten days for $20. A good place to meet girls. I took the teacher training awhile back and there were all these ex-junkies who kicked and stayed clean with the yoga. My friend Adam has said that the Bikram Yoga has helped him more than anything else in staying clean afterwards. Have you checked out “Keeping Clean” on mind-vox?

If you are thinking of quiting smoking, start before the ibo, go on the patch or something. Don’t expect to stop with the ibogaine.

I’m very excited and hopeful for you.

B
From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 20:36:57 -0700 (PDT)

I’m fine spent the day with my mom. I didn’t seem like it even made sense to go to work. But I’m fine. Just got home and watching the movie Bird (Charlie Parker). Just feel like vegging . To answer your question about do I feel it. I have to do 6 or 7 bags at a time so it can get kinda skechy because if its poison then I just shot a shit load of posison or at least i’m shooting a lot of cut. i wish i think like this when i’m drunk! Who knows maybe I’ll look back and it will turn out to be the last time. Certainly not before I leave so hopefully not ever. i guess the best way to explain my dope use is i kinda feel sometimes when i’m not feeling great about myself “well i’m already on enough meth to kill a horse so whats the differnce if i act like a real junky every once and a while” but i just feel that once I’m free from narcitocs and not addicted i’ll be afraid to take a freakin codine. Anyway i hope i’m free of this shit.

CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
Mc….Do you feel the dope you shoot while on Methadone? I never have and thought that regular use of 50mg or more blocks any rush or euphoria from opiate or opiate like dope.
I hope you don’t do something crazy like that again! You could’ve been arrested and that might have fucked up all your good plans!
I am kind of glad it didn’t feel good. Sorry, just the truth.
Try to take it easy today. Wish you lived close to me….I would be happy to spend the days leading up to you leaving with you. I am with you in thought though.
You hang in there! Do not sabotage this or yourself. I have a tendency to do that and I have no reason why but it drives my Methadone counselor batty!! Maybe all of us addicts sabotage our happiness and don’t even realize it!
I don’t know how you feel about 12 step meetings but one or two might help if you are feeling shitty and are tempted to do something else stupid tonight. I think it would be better to be around some clean/sober folks instead of being alone with your self destructiveness.
Does the clinic you are going to be treated at have a hotline number? Maybe you should find out. You could even call and chat with them. I will be happy to give you my number if you e-mail me privately.
Treat yourself good today. Take a walk if weather is permitting.
Keep in touch! Hugs and more hugs!
Callie

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From: Patrick K. Kroupa <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran
Date: July 23, 2004 at 3:09:52 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Jul 22, 2004, at 11:36 PM, mcorcoran wrote:

I’m fine spent the day with my mom. I didn’t seem like it even made sense to go to work. But I’m fine. Just got home and watching the movie Bird (Charlie Parker). Just feel like vegging . To answer your question about do I feel it. I have to do 6 or 7 bags at a time so it can get kinda skechy because if its poison then I just shot a shit load of posison or at least i’m shooting a lot of cut. i wish i think like this when i’m drunk! Who knows maybe I’ll look back and it will turn out to be the last time. Certainly not before I leave so hopefully not ever. i guess the best way to explain my dope use is i kinda feel sometimes when  i’m not feeling great about myself “well i’m already on enough meth to kill a horse so whats the differnce if i act like a real junky every once and a while” but i just feel that once I’m free from narcitocs and not addicted i’ll be afraid to take a freakin codine. Anyway i hope i’m free of this shit.

Dude,

If it’s any consolation, nearly 5 years later I feel exactly the same way.  If I iz superman … narcotic analgesics = kryptonite.

I’ve had oral surgery and teeFs implanted without anything ‘cept Vioxx and acetaminophen.  Ouch.  It hurtS It hurtS!!@!!!  “I’m sure, I just sawed down your gums and screwed teeth into your jawbone!  Don’t worry, I’ll write you for some Percocet!”  Uh … this is the part where I EXPLAIN that Percs don’t work for me, but there is this thing called Dilaudid which truly rocks!  “Ok, I’ll write you for that!”  And then … and theN, then comes the BEST PART where I do one.  Realize I’m not clean anymore anyway, so why not toss 5 into a cooker, cold shake, bang up, and PRESTO!!!!  The romance begins again!!!  Wooo HooOOooOOooOO.  I love dope!!!

Uh … pardon me, calming down.  It’s late, just … telling myself a happy little story.  Don’t read any of that.

So, uhm, basically … everything you said makes perfect sense to me!  Just make sure you’re utterly fucked up when you get on the plane.  Skip the guilt, and enjoy your flight!  I sure did my last time.

In other words: I think … everything you’re thinking, feeling, and experiencing … is shit that everybody who has made it, has also felt.

None of it prevents you from stepping out of drug dependence.  You’re perfectly normal … for a dopefiend.  What I’m saying is … 5 years later.  All the thoughts going through your head, are no different than what passes through mine, or anybody else’s — who has managed to clean up.

Fuck everybody, do the ibogaine, see what it gives you, and then after that, start taking some advice.  If at all possible.

If intellectual understanding of what you’re doing was enough to stop.  Well, you really wouldn’t need to do ibogaine in the first place.

Peace dude, and enjoy.  It’s a cool plane of existence to visit.

Mc….Do you feel the dope you shoot while on Methadone? I never have and thought that regular use of 50mg or more blocks any rush or euphoria from opiate or opiate like dope.

This is not true.  Different people respond in different ways to the theoretical receptor saturation.  I was on 200mg of methadone, and still felt dope.  ‘Course, you’re not gonna feel one bag.  It’s more like bangin’ a bundle at a time.

Patrick

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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran
Date: July 23, 2004 at 2:14:54 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Mark,

good stuff being said here.

I’ll ditto Mister Anker, read “keeping clean” on ibogaine.mindvox.com

we are behind you 200%. Some of us have been right where you are now, so this is all good for all of us.

a little quote from my NA Daze:.

“the theraputic value of one addict helping another is without parallel!” Its a two-way street. You are helping me stay clean, right here, right now.

and I’ll say my little getting/keeping clean spiel here for kicks:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
uhm…

If you “relapse/slip/use/stumble/get loaded/fuckup/freakout/fall” -pick yourself back up ASAP, dust yourself off and move on. Avoid getting mired down in guilt, shame, remorse or pity. These are fear-based stumbling blocks and will keep you down.

In staying clean, fear is the enemy.

Avoid letting other peoples/groups opinions/dogmas/judgements weigh you down.

Remember, when you get clean, that monkey on your back (or 900 pound gorilla, or whatever) doesn’t go away. It climbs up into your head.

One of the keys to staying clean is not allowing that monkey in your head to get louder than the music in your heart.

_.dave

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mark,

Don’t beat yourself up about copping. It makes sense that you wanted have one last go with your dear old friend. Time to say goodbye.

Maybe have your mom or a friend clean your place when you go to Mexico, it’ll be nice to come back to a clean home. You will have four to six weeks where there will be this nice wide door open for you to go through and make a new life. It is up to you to go through, and there will be all sorts of energy which can pull you back. Iboga is not a magic pill. Most will relapse. People like us don’t do well with an occasional dabble and you will feel so good and strong that the thought “well I can certainly handle one little shot, now that I’m healed” is not correct. Remember that cravings are like a wave, they come, they go.

If you are the go with god sort, AA can help, but it ain’t for all. It always made me want to go cop. Some people like SMART recovery. The clinic will give you the SMART work book which has some great tools to help you. I’ve found going to a movie helps. Jacking off gets your mind off it. Or if you are feeling loaded for bear, jack off at a movie. Sounds like you will be better off staying off the booze. Weed may help. When you get back to NYC, try Bikram yoga. There are plenty of studios in the city and it will help build the endorphins back up and the sweating will help clean your body up. They give a special for new people, unlimited classes for ten days for $20. A good place to meet girls. I took the teacher training awhile back and there were all these ex-junkies who kicked and stayed clean with the yoga. My friend Adam has said that the Bikram Yoga has helped him more than anything else in staying clean afterwards. Have you checked out “Keeping Clean” on mind-vox?

If you are thinking of quiting smoking, start before the ibo, go on the patch or something. Don’t expect to stop with the ibogaine.

I’m very excited and hopeful for you.

B
From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 20:36:57 -0700 (PDT)

I’m fine spent the day with my mom. I didn’t seem like it even made sense to go to work. But I’m fine. Just got home and watching the movie Bird (Charlie Parker). Just feel like vegging . To answer your question about do I feel it. I have to do 6 or 7 bags at a time so it can get kinda skechy because if its poison then I just shot a shit load of posison or at least i’m shooting a lot of cut. i wish i think like this when i’m drunk! Who knows maybe I’ll look back and it will turn out to be the last time. Certainly not before I leave so hopefully not ever. i guess the best way to explain my dope use is i kinda feel sometimes when  i’m not feeling great about myself “well i’m already on enough meth to kill a horse so whats the differnce if i act like a real junky every once and a while” but i just feel that once I’m free from narcitocs and not addicted i’ll be afraid to take a freakin codine. Anyway i hope i’m free of this shit.

CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
Mc….Do you feel the dope you shoot while on Methadone? I never have and thought that regular use of 50mg or more blocks any rush or euphoria from opiate or opiate like dope.
I hope you don’t do something crazy like that again! You could’ve been arrested and that might have fucked up all your good plans!
I am kind of glad it didn’t feel good. Sorry, just the truth.
Try to take it easy today. Wish you lived close to me….I would be happy to spend the days leading up to you leaving with you. I am with you in thought though.
You hang in there! Do not sabotage this or yourself. I have a tendency to do that and I have no reason why but it drives my Methadone counselor batty!! Maybe all of us addicts sabotage our happiness and don’t even realize it!
I don’t know how you feel about 12 step meetings but one or two might help if you are feeling shitty and are tempted to do something else stupid tonight. I think it would be better to be around some clean/sober folks instead of being alone with your self destructiveness.
Does the clinic you are going to be treated at have a hotline number? Maybe you should find out. You could even call and chat with them. I will be happy to give you my number if you e-mail me privately.
Treat yourself good today. Take a walk if weather is permitting.
Keep in touch! Hugs and more hugs!
Callie

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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_________________________________________________________________
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From: “Steven Anker” <stevenanker@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran
Date: July 23, 2004 at 1:50:02 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Mark,

Don’t beat yourself up about copping. It makes sense that you wanted have one last go with your dear old friend. Time to say goodbye.

Maybe have your mom or a friend clean your place when you go to Mexico, it’ll be nice to come back to a clean home. You will have four to six weeks where there will be this nice wide door open for you to go through and make a new life. It is up to you to go through, and there will be all sorts of energy which can pull you back. Iboga is not a magic pill. Most will relapse. People like us don’t do well with an occasional dabble and you will feel so good and strong that the thought “well I can certainly handle one little shot, now that I’m healed” is not correct. Remember that cravings are like a wave, they come, they go.

If you are the go with god sort, AA can help, but it ain’t for all. It always made me want to go cop. Some people like SMART recovery. The clinic will give you the SMART work book which has some great tools to help you. I’ve found going to a movie helps. Jacking off gets your mind off it. Or if you are feeling loaded for bear, jack off at a movie. Sounds like you will be better off staying off the booze. Weed may help. When you get back to NYC, try Bikram yoga. There are plenty of studios in the city and it will help build the endorphins back up and the sweating will help clean your body up. They give a special for new people, unlimited classes for ten days for $20. A good place to meet girls. I took the teacher training awhile back and there were all these ex-junkies who kicked and stayed clean with the yoga. My friend Adam has said that the Bikram Yoga has helped him more than anything else in staying clean afterwards. Have you checked out “Keeping Clean” on mind-vox?

If you are thinking of quiting smoking, start before the ibo, go on the patch or something. Don’t expect to stop with the ibogaine.

I’m very excited and hopeful for you.

B
From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 20:36:57 -0700 (PDT)

I’m fine spent the day with my mom. I didn’t seem like it even made sense to go to work. But I’m fine. Just got home and watching the movie Bird (Charlie Parker). Just feel like vegging . To answer your question about do I feel it. I have to do 6 or 7 bags at a time so it can get kinda skechy because if its poison then I just shot a shit load of posison or at least i’m shooting a lot of cut. i wish i think like this when i’m drunk! Who knows maybe I’ll look back and it will turn out to be the last time. Certainly not before I leave so hopefully not ever. i guess the best way to explain my dope use is i kinda feel sometimes when  i’m not feeling great about myself “well i’m already on enough meth to kill a horse so whats the differnce if i act like a real junky every once and a while” but i just feel that once I’m free from narcitocs and not addicted i’ll be afraid to take a freakin codine. Anyway i hope i’m free of this shit.

CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
Mc….Do you feel the dope you shoot while on Methadone? I never have and thought that regular use of 50mg or more blocks any rush or euphoria from opiate or opiate like dope.
I hope you don’t do something crazy like that again! You could’ve been arrested and that might have fucked up all your good plans!
I am kind of glad it didn’t feel good. Sorry, just the truth.
Try to take it easy today. Wish you lived close to me….I would be happy to spend the days leading up to you leaving with you. I am with you in thought though.
You hang in there! Do not sabotage this or yourself. I have a tendency to do that and I have no reason why but it drives my Methadone counselor batty!! Maybe all of us addicts sabotage our happiness and don’t even realize it!
I don’t know how you feel about 12 step meetings but one or two might help if you are feeling shitty and are tempted to do something else stupid tonight. I think it would be better to be around some clean/sober folks instead of being alone with your self destructiveness.
Does the clinic you are going to be treated at have a hotline number? Maybe you should find out. You could even call and chat with them. I will be happy to give you my number if you e-mail me privately.
Treat yourself good today. Take a walk if weather is permitting.
Keep in touch! Hugs and more hugs!
Callie

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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_________________________________________________________________
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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran
Date: July 22, 2004 at 11:36:57 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m fine spent the day with my mom. I didn’t seem like it even made sense to go to work. But I’m fine. Just got home and watching the movie Bird (Charlie Parker). Just feel like vegging . To answer your question about do I feel it. I have to do 6 or 7 bags at a time so it can get kinda skechy because if its poison then I just shot a shit load of posison or at least i’m shooting a lot of cut. i wish i think like this when i’m drunk! Who knows maybe I’ll look back and it will turn out to be the last time. Certainly not before I leave so hopefully not ever. i guess the best way to explain my dope use is i kinda feel sometimes when  i’m not feeling great about myself “well i’m already on enough meth to kill a horse so whats the differnce if i act like a real junky every once and a while” but i just feel that once I’m free from narcitocs and not addicted i’ll be afraid to take a freakin codine. Anyway i hope i’m free of this shit.

CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
Mc….Do you feel the dope you shoot while on Methadone? I never have and thought that regular use of 50mg or more blocks any rush or euphoria from opiate or opiate like dope.
I hope you don’t do something crazy like that again! You could’ve been arrested and that might have fucked up all your good plans!
I am kind of glad it didn’t feel good. Sorry, just the truth.
Try to take it easy today. Wish you lived close to me….I would be happy to spend the days leading up to you leaving with you. I am with you in thought though.
You hang in there! Do not sabotage this or yourself. I have a tendency to do that and I have no reason why but it drives my Methadone counselor batty!! Maybe all of us addicts sabotage our happiness and don’t even realize it!
I don’t know how you feel about 12 step meetings but one or two might help if you are feeling shitty and are tempted to do something else stupid tonight. I think it would be better to be around some clean/sober folks instead of being alone with your self destructiveness.
Does the clinic you are going to be treated at have a hotline number? Maybe you should find out. You could even call and chat with them. I will be happy to give you my number if you e-mail me privately.
Treat yourself good today. Take a walk if weather is permitting.
Keep in touch! Hugs and more hugs!
Callie
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com

From: “AG” <adamg@013.net.il>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran
Date: July 22, 2004 at 9:08:41 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

we’re all here cuz we’re not all here.

-oh and,

I drink, therefore I ain’t.

AG

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 1:23 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran

Maybe all of us addicts sabotage our happiness and don’t even realize
it!<

Unfortunately, I usually realize it and often it still doesn’t/didn’t stop
me.
But you’re right Callie, I think many if not most addicts do tend to
sabatoge themselves, which is part and parcel with addiction anyway, no?
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 12:22 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran

Mc….Do you feel the dope you shoot while on Methadone? I never have and
thought that regular use of 50mg or more blocks any rush or euphoria from
opiate or opiate like dope.
I hope you don’t do something crazy like that again! You could’ve been
arrested and that might have fucked up all your good plans!
I am kind of glad it didn’t feel good. Sorry, just the truth.
Try to take it easy today. Wish you lived close to me….I would be happy
to
spend the days leading up to you leaving with you. I am with you in
thought
though.
You hang in there! Do not sabotage this or yourself. I have a tendency to
do
that and I have no reason why but it drives my Methadone counselor batty!!
Maybe all of us addicts sabotage our happiness and don’t even realize it!
I don’t know how you feel about 12 step meetings but one or two might help
if you are feeling shitty and are tempted to do something else stupid
tonight. I think it would be better to be around some clean/sober folks
instead of being alone with your self destructiveness.
Does the clinic you are going to be treated at have a hotline number?
Maybe
you should find out. You could even call and chat with them. I will be
happy
to give you my number if you e-mail me privately.
Treat yourself good today. Take a walk if weather is permitting.
Keep in touch! Hugs and more hugs!
Callie

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] 11111111111 (smoking tobacco on withdrawa)
Date: July 22, 2004 at 7:32:02 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

no, actually quite the opposite.

heroin & tobacco… mmm mmm good.

smoking while kicking made me puke.<

Um, DH, I think you’re missing what I wrote- it’s not opposite at all, it
reads like you and I (and whoever it was who originally posed that question,
but the name of whom escapes me right now) have Exactly the same viewpoint
here.
;-))
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: D H
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 1:26 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] 11111111111 (smoking tobacco on withdrawa)

When I’m on withdrawal; smoking tobacco comes to me so ugly thing but I
can’t stop myself and I smoke it. Is there anyone feel the same way with me
about smoking tobacco on withdrawal?

no, actually quite the opposite.

heroin & tobacco… mmm mmm good.

smoking while kicking made me puke.

post acute withdrawal, yes I’d start smoking again.

and how.

funny thing about all them 12 step meetings back in the day… and treatment
too… “we forbid any mind or mood altering substances… except tobacco and
caffeine”, one of which is known to cause cancer among other pleasant side
effects.

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Bupe and depression
Date: July 22, 2004 at 7:26:06 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

but from all the data I’ve seen and read, you will still have a great
experience regardless of dose of opiates.<

I thought part of this need to not being doing opiates, to be in some form
of withdrawals before actually taking ibogaine , is because the opiates are
much, much stronger while on ibogaine. Is this not the case afterall?
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 12:23 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Bupe and depression

Yeah, Jim, Two people I spoke with about the wellbutrin advised me to stop
taking it a couple of weeks before. I intend to stop everything except maybe
my diabetes medicine.Of course the meth I won’t stop but those two people
said the same thing to me that I should take the Ibo just when I’m starting
to feel withdrawal-Not full blown but right when it begins. Though I intend
to do this, I will tell you this: If I didn’t think I could handle the ill
feelings, I would do the Ibo at whatever dose I was comfortable at. I know I
am far from any kind of knowledgeable person re: Ibo, but from all the data
I’ve seen and read, you will still have a great experience regardless of
dose of opiates. I agree with these two that the experience might be more
intense on lower doses, but I don’t think anyone should be too concerned or
neurotic about their opiate dose. My opinion only……………………

Regards my man,

Julian

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran
Date: July 22, 2004 at 7:23:42 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Maybe all of us addicts sabotage our happiness and don’t even realize it!<

Unfortunately, I usually realize it and often it still doesn’t/didn’t stop
me.
But you’re right Callie, I think many if not most addicts do tend to
sabatoge themselves, which is part and parcel with addiction anyway, no?
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 12:22 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran

Mc….Do you feel the dope you shoot while on Methadone? I never have and
thought that regular use of 50mg or more blocks any rush or euphoria from
opiate or opiate like dope.
I hope you don’t do something crazy like that again! You could’ve been
arrested and that might have fucked up all your good plans!
I am kind of glad it didn’t feel good. Sorry, just the truth.
Try to take it easy today. Wish you lived close to me….I would be happy to
spend the days leading up to you leaving with you. I am with you in thought
though.
You hang in there! Do not sabotage this or yourself. I have a tendency to do
that and I have no reason why but it drives my Methadone counselor batty!!
Maybe all of us addicts sabotage our happiness and don’t even realize it!
I don’t know how you feel about 12 step meetings but one or two might help
if you are feeling shitty and are tempted to do something else stupid
tonight. I think it would be better to be around some clean/sober folks
instead of being alone with your self destructiveness.
Does the clinic you are going to be treated at have a hotline number? Maybe
you should find out. You could even call and chat with them. I will be happy
to give you my number if you e-mail me privately.
Treat yourself good today. Take a walk if weather is permitting.
Keep in touch! Hugs and more hugs!
Callie

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran
Date: July 22, 2004 at 7:18:51 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

It just disgusts me but iot has a tedincy of happening when I get a lIttle
drunk.<

Yer not the first I’ve heard this from Mark, including from my own
mouth/mind. ALcohol has sa tendency to lower my defences anyway. It used to
be crack I’d run to after getting drunk. But nowadays it’s so rare to get
drunk I usually am too incapacitated to run get anything, much less crack.
I was hoping to see you last night but obviously we didn’t, soooo. next
time perhaps?

All my friends go home to there normal lives and I go to Harlem.<

Used to have totally stright co-worked drop me off in the worst parts of
town at time- once I Had a group of young college kids, new co-workers, at
an Upper Crust Pizza I was waiting table at in Atlanta, drive me home, on
New Years Eve to Grant Park, still in Atlanta. At the very tip top of the
hill sat our house, and at the bottom, on the other side of the Atlanta Zoo,
was crack central. As we drove into this very dark and scary neighborhood,
some huge black guy stepped out in his porch and fired off all the rounds in
his handgun, straight up into the air, at the stroke of midnight to
celebrate the New Year thing. It was all I could do to get these kids to
stop the car long enough for me to climb out and walk the rest of the way to
my crack source. Those kids peeled out, burning rubber like their lives
depended upon it- and I couldn’t really blame them. But it’s weird being the
only one to be meandering into the drug markets that others my age don’t
even know exist.

I’m not going to beat myself up but its long sleeves today in 90 degrees
and I’m going out to have dinner with my family so they might be the ones
doing the beating.<

Don’t beat yourself up over it Mark, it ain’t worth it.
Wishing you the very, very best of luck and other positive vibes in Mexico.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: mcorcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 11:36 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran

Thanks again. I’m feelin kinda digusted with myself this morning because
last night I got kinda drunk with a few opf my friends and then when
everyone went there spereate ways I started to think about this (and none of
them know) but I started thinking about one good last shot. So needless to
say I circumed  to it and it gave me a terrible hardache (severse me right)
and I went satraight to bed. I woke up this morning with the plan to go down
to 80 and I heald off until tomorrow becasue my whole body was hurting.
It just disgusts me but iot has a tedincy of happening when I get a lIttle
drunk. All my friends go home to there normal lives and I go to Harlem. Oh
well I’m lookin at a new begininng in just two days and maybe that really
was the last time. God, there have been so many last times… too many last
times. I’m not going to beat myself up but its long sleeves today in 90
degrees and I’m going out to have dinner with my family so they might be the
ones doing the beating.
I’m going to take mny laptop on the train and respond to all of the
wonderful messages I’ve recieved in the past few days.
This time two days from now I’ll be 3,000 miles away with one bottle. Time
to face this bitch for once and for all.
-M.

Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi Mcorcoran,

Like I said the odds are on your side.  Everyone seems to be the happier for
taking the treatment.  Many are trying to save up the money to have it.
Addiction sucks, no doubt about it.  Think now, you have had input from half
the people on the forum, people who are quite experienced.  Go there, clean
up and get back to your life, you got a lot of years left.  Oh, one more
thing, the place you work for most likely will not give you a good reference
so I would let them fire me.  If they fire you for getting medical help you
will at least get unemployment, if you quit you don’t get anything, I have
seen more help on this forum than anywhere else.  You will be fine, you
think we’re all bullshitting ya?   We’ve all been there and many of us have
been to worse places.  Just don’t relapse.

Relax, you will be fine

– JIM

CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 7/21/2004 5:02:13 PM Central Daylight Time,
mcorcoran27@yahoo.com writes:
Oh my God a week !!!!!! I had this thought today that me and this big fuckin
habit of mine were finally coming face to face and I’m going to have every
expectation that this bitch is not gonna let go without a fight and although
I know its anyones fight and I’m not gonna win without getting a little
fucked up but I will prevail.
Bless you! You have so many questions and anxieties. My advice to you is too
let it all go. Do the next right thing and all will be fine. Have faith in
your higher power. You have been led to this list and to Ibogaine. It is not
a coincidence.
As far as your job….I think you are wise not to quit. In fact, I encourage
you to make as few major changes as you can.
Let Ibogaine be the change you make. Quitting dope goes with the Ibogaine
change. That is a HUGE life change and will bring on some stress.
You can do it though if you keep the rest of your life as familiar as
possible.
I am so excited for you! For this reason I will be happy when this ordeal is
over for you!
Callie

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] AnyoneFormer’done gone2Bupe
Date: July 22, 2004 at 5:40:53 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I think I may of not made myself clear on the last post.  I was in detox and did not go through w/d when given the narcon or naltraxon.  However, if I had cheated and taken a few narcotics in with me it would of been hell.

D.H.  you did the right thing flushing the stuff away.  I am not one to throw away drugs, sorta like throwing away food with all the starving people in the world.  But in 6 months or a year you may of given in to the craving and have to start from square one.  Glad you stayed stright.

– JIM
Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi Callie,

I think there may have a slight mix up. There is Narcan that is the brand name; naloxone which will only bother you if you shoot it up.  You can take it via mouth and the stomach acids will destroy it.  Or so they say.

Naltrexone on the other hand is used by addicts to keep clean, much like antabuse for the alcoholics.  It is a 50 mg pill that is swallowed and last up to day or so.  It is a very dangerous thing to try and override for you feel nothing but then you do just a little bit more then you OD.  But it counteracts the narcotic, thus you feel nothing and do not bother to use.  But you must be clean anywhere from two to three weeks depending on how much you were using.  Then they give you a shot of Narcan VERY slowly before giving you Naltrexone.  The Narcan is a short acting antagonist and you will be in w/d for 4 hours.  If you take Naltrexone you will be in w/d much longer.  At least that is what happened to me in detox.  I could get the Naltrexone for free via mail or pay about $100 for 30 pills.  Well like a fool I sent in through the mail and the cravings got to me before the pills.  But that was many years ago, I got to learn to quit kicking my ass over it.  The detox center was sorta like go in the detox room and suffer, no Imodium, nothing to help you sleep, nothing for nausea, just catapress which did not help much when your doing over $100 per day.  And then it is NA and AA meetings.  Damn was I sick.

If I am wrong on this please, somebody, call it to my attention.

Hey some good news.

A strange thing happeded today.  The first call I made to a doc said they do the bupe thing.  I asked if they used Subutex and they said no they used ??? and damn it I did not catch what she said.  There are two kinds of bupe Subutex and some other kind with the Narcan in it to stop users from shooting it up, just like the Talwin.  If anyone had problems with the Narcan causeing withdrawal please let me know.

I really hate going to new docs, filling out the forms, answering the questions, etc. but if I get the bupe and it helps with the depression I will be happy.  But as one person on the forum said that there are those clinics that just detox you for there is more money to be made than by maintaining you.  So I guess I will just have to go and play it by ear.  I have learned a lot on this forum, I am so glad it is here.  Good luck to everyone.

– JIM

CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 7/22/2004 3:54:39 AM Central Daylight Time, BiscuitBoy714@aol.com writes:
naltrexone reacting to the meth in me

Personally I hate naltrexone use in addiction! It serves no purpose except to make you feel like shit and a bundle of nerves. I feel it should only be used in the Emergency Room and should be used there only in life/death situations!
The folks I know who have taken it in Talwin or was given it in ER for overdoses have NEVER felt like they did before Naltrexone. Kind of like Antabuse and alcohol.
Callie

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] AnyoneFormer’done gone2Bupe
Date: July 22, 2004 at 5:19:12 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Callie,

I think there may have a slight mix up. There is Narcan that is the brand name; naloxone which will only bother you if you shoot it up.  You can take it via mouth and the stomach acids will destroy it.  Or so they say.

Naltrexone on the other hand is used by addicts to keep clean, much like antabuse for the alcoholics.  It is a 50 mg pill that is swallowed and last up to day or so.  It is a very dangerous thing to try and override for you feel nothing but then you do just a little bit more then you OD.  But it counteracts the narcotic, thus you feel nothing and do not bother to use.  But you must be clean anywhere from two to three weeks depending on how much you were using.  Then they give you a shot of Narcan VERY slowly before giving you Naltrexone.  The Narcan is a short acting antagonist and you will be in w/d for 4 hours.  If you take Naltrexone you will be in w/d much longer.  At least that is what happened to me in detox.  I could get the Naltrexone for free via mail or pay about $100 for 30 pills.  Well like a fool I sent in through the mail and the cravings got to me before the pills.  But that was many years ago, I got to learn to quit kicking my ass over it.  The detox center was sorta like go in the detox room and suffer, no Imodium, nothing to help you sleep, nothing for nausea, just catapress which did not help much when your doing over $100 per day.  And then it is NA and AA meetings.  Damn was I sick.

If I am wrong on this please, somebody, call it to my attention.

Hey some good news.

A strange thing happeded today.  The first call I made to a doc said they do the bupe thing.  I asked if they used Subutex and they said no they used ??? and damn it I did not catch what she said.  There are two kinds of bupe Subutex and some other kind with the Narcan in it to stop users from shooting it up, just like the Talwin.  If anyone had problems with the Narcan causeing withdrawal please let me know.

I really hate going to new docs, filling out the forms, answering the questions, etc. but if I get the bupe and it helps with the depression I will be happy.  But as one person on the forum said that there are those clinics that just detox you for there is more money to be made than by maintaining you.  So I guess I will just have to go and play it by ear.  I have learned a lot on this forum, I am so glad it is here.  Good luck to everyone.

– JIM

CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 7/22/2004 3:54:39 AM Central Daylight Time, BiscuitBoy714@aol.com writes:
naltrexone reacting to the meth in me

Personally I hate naltrexone use in addiction! It serves no purpose except to make you feel like shit and a bundle of nerves. I feel it should only be used in the Emergency Room and should be used there only in life/death situations!
The folks I know who have taken it in Talwin or was given it in ER for overdoses have NEVER felt like they did before Naltrexone. Kind of like Antabuse and alcohol.
Callie

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From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] 11111111111 (smoking tobacco on withdrawa)
Date: July 22, 2004 at 3:36:23 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hell yes!  When I did H I smoked n smoked-my boyf would go crazy coz he’d go
to bed with a full pouch of baccy n then wake up and I’d sat up all night
chain-smoking the lot.  I mean totally chain-smoking.  But as soon as I
detox  I hate the taste.  And for some strange reason I still smoke a bit.

lol!
—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 1:43 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] 11111111111 (smoking tobacco on withdrawa)

When I’m on withdrawal; smoking tobacco comes to me so ugly thing but I
can’t stop myself and I smoke it. Is there anyone feel the same way with
me
about smoking tobacco on withdrawal?<

An emphatic yes here. Cigs taste like shit when I’m even only slightly
withdarwing, yet they also help calm me down then, even tasting as awful
as
they always do in that state. I mean it, I get this horrid taste I’m not
ever aware of when not in opiated states, but like you Fake, I do not stop
entirely stop smoking- though I do usually smoke a lot less in those
times.
One would think, or at least I would, that this wouldn’t be the case, that
due to needing something, anything to cut through the withdrawal hell I
would basically gobble up tobacco cigs, but it’s simpl not the case.
So yes, I empathize with you.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: FakePlacebo
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 3:45 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] 11111111111 (smoking tobacco on withdrawa)

Dear Friends,
When I’m on withdrawal; smoking tobacco comes to me so ugly thing but I
can’t stop myself and I smoke it. Is there anyone feel the same way with
me
about smoking tobacco on withdrawal?

Best Regards
FakePlacebo
—– Original Message —–
From: iboga@ziplip.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 8:28 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] 11111111111

Jon,
Thank you for your reply.  It is good to hear the other side to better
understand.  I understand the compulsion part and the lack of appitite,
but
I had never heard of aches and pain and sickness resulting from stopping
marijauana use after use.  I’ curious if similar case have been reported
from tobacco use?  Regardless, I think Prohibition of it promotes
terrorism
and drug use and I believe the war on drugs is a war not designed to
succeed
and that organized crime has made so much that it has saturated media,
political parties and has created the prison industrial complex that
continues to grow and grow as will the budget for the War on Drugs,
expecially things like the ‘Victory Act’ which links drug use with
terrorism, not drug prohibition, drug use.
But for real Jon thank you for your reply, I will be looking into it
futher
and hope if you run across anything new let me know,
Be Well,
Jason

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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: [ibogaine] sorry ,
Date: July 22, 2004 at 2:26:44 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

My last email was for Howard and Norma,

Sorry for the wrong email address.

S.

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Pikturez = thousand WordS
Date: July 22, 2004 at 1:39:32 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I gotta admit Dave, you look healthier and stronger grimacing with the GODS! I also gotaa admit I cringe watching you throw all that meth away. Too bad we didn’t know each other back then. Really though, the picture is a good ad for getting your shit on!

Regards,
Julian

Regarding tossing the methadone…

Originally my plan was to bring the methadone home with me and sell it.

But the Bwiti instructed me otherwise.

Its the only dope I’ve ever thrown out, except maybe a few pills here and there during my 12 step indoctrination daze.

_.dh

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] 11111111111 (smoking tobacco on withdrawa)
Date: July 22, 2004 at 1:26:52 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

When I’m on withdrawal; smoking tobacco comes to me so ugly thing but I can’t stop myself and I smoke it. Is there anyone feel the same way with me about smoking tobacco on withdrawal?

no, actually quite the opposite.

heroin & tobacco… mmm mmm good.

smoking while kicking made me puke.

post acute withdrawal, yes I’d start smoking again.

and how.

funny thing about all them 12 step meetings back in the day… and treatment too… “we forbid any mind or mood altering substances… except tobacco and caffeine”, one of which is known to cause cancer among other pleasant side effects.

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: [ibogaine] Dear Howard&Norma
Date: July 22, 2004 at 12:57:00 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I like to share with you few emails with a patient,

Also  Carl has no Cancer which is really good news, the operation is not completed so he has to stay another week
At the hospital.
I had an email from Ben saying he is back from Gabon.
All the best ,

Sara

========================================
Van: nick  cams [mailto:soup@fsmail.net] 
Verzonden: dinsdag 20 juli 2004 14:29
Aan: Sara Glatt
Onderwerp: Re: RE: Sorry I haven’t been in touch sooner
Thankyou so much,i cant thankyou enough.I would really like to come back. I got a lot out of the last time,and beleive that another stay with you would take me to where i want to be,and answer my prayers. Im tottaly broke,so it would take me a couple of weeks to get the cash together,to be able to come.I will phone you as soon as i get some cash or somebody lets me use they’re phone. Your such beautifull people.Will be in touch soon. Thankyou.

Message date : Jul 20 2004, 01:38 PM
From : “Sara Glatt” 
To : soup@fsmail.net
Copy to : 
Subject : RE: RE: Sorry I haven’t been in touch sooner
Hi Nick,

look at http://www.basiqair.com/nl

they are really cheap to fly.

take care,
sara

Hi Sara
Sorry yesterday I didn’t get to say exactly what I mean. The place I use to email  from can be crap. As I was emailing you, a band started to practice and I’m not to good with computors, so I got confused and didn’t explain myself properly.
I got so much out of the iboga. My mind has been so much clearer since I did it and everyone who knows I did the iboga says that I’m a totally different person. I know that another session would take me to where I want to be.
I’m in a mess at the moment, doing 3-4 bags a day and I can’t bring myself down. You giving me another chance has been the answer to my prayers, a chance to to get my life back. I feel a lot more grounded in myself. Amanda having left me the way she did really opened my eyes and made me realise I want to, and have to get clean for myself, no-one else.
My present situation is complicated. My money situation is really bad. I’m in debt to a dealer and can’t go anywhere until the debt is cleared. I don’t get a giro for another two weeks and am living day to day.
I don’t want you to think I’ve taken your offer for granted. I know what a busy woman you are and I’m really grateful and honoured that you have asked me to come back, especially after all the shit you’ve been through recently with Adrian and other piss takers like him. I can’t thank you enough. I will ring you on Monday to chat further.
Please send my love to Carl the children
Thank you Sara for everything
Love Nick

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] 11111111111
Date: July 22, 2004 at 12:36:27 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

No, I think oxygen is the worst! After 49 years I still can’t live without it! Damn what a bitch!!!

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Pikturez = thousand WordS
Date: July 22, 2004 at 12:30:20 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I gotta admit Dave, you look healthier and stronger grimacing with the GODS! I also gotaa admit I cringe watching you throw all that meth away. Too bad we didn’t know each other back then. Really though, the picture is a good ad for getting your shit on!

Regards,
Julian

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] AnyoneFormer’done gone2Bupe
Date: July 22, 2004 at 12:27:21 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/22/2004 3:54:39 AM Central Daylight Time, BiscuitBoy714@aol.com writes:
naltrexone reacting to the meth in me

Personally I hate naltrexone use in addiction! It serves no purpose except to make you feel like shit and a bundle of nerves. I feel it should only be used in the Emergency Room and should be used there only in life/death situations!
The folks I know who have taken it in Talwin or was given it in ER for overdoses have NEVER felt like they did before Naltrexone. Kind of like Antabuse and alcohol.
Callie

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Help Follow-up 93 WIRED article
Date: July 22, 2004 at 12:26:36 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

 

?

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Bupe and depression
Date: July 22, 2004 at 12:23:27 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yeah, Jim, Two people I spoke with about the wellbutrin advised me to stop taking it a couple of weeks before. I intend to stop everything except maybe my diabetes medicine.Of course the meth I won’t stop but those two people said the same thing to me that I should take the Ibo just when I’m starting to feel withdrawal-Not full blown but right when it begins. Though I intend to do this, I will tell you this: If I didn’t think I could handle the ill feelings, I would do the Ibo at whatever dose I was comfortable at. I know I am far from any kind of knowledgeable person re: Ibo, but from all the data I’ve seen and read, you will still have a great experience regardless of dose of opiates. I agree with these two that the experience might be more intense on lower doses, but I don’t think anyone should be too concerned or neurotic about their opiate dose. My opinion only……………………
Regards my man,
Julian

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran
Date: July 22, 2004 at 12:22:30 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Mc….Do you feel the dope you shoot while on Methadone? I never have and thought that regular use of 50mg or more blocks any rush or euphoria from opiate or opiate like dope.
I hope you don’t do something crazy like that again! You could’ve been arrested and that might have fucked up all your good plans!
I am kind of glad it didn’t feel good. Sorry, just the truth.
Try to take it easy today. Wish you lived close to me….I would be happy to spend the days leading up to you leaving with you. I am with you in thought though.
You hang in there! Do not sabotage this or yourself. I have a tendency to do that and I have no reason why but it drives my Methadone counselor batty!! Maybe all of us addicts sabotage our happiness and don’t even realize it!
I don’t know how you feel about 12 step meetings but one or two might help if you are feeling shitty and are tempted to do something else stupid tonight. I think it would be better to be around some clean/sober folks instead of being alone with your self destructiveness.
Does the clinic you are going to be treated at have a hotline number? Maybe you should find out. You could even call and chat with them. I will be happy to give you my number if you e-mail me privately.
Treat yourself good today. Take a walk if weather is permitting.
Keep in touch! Hugs and more hugs!
Callie

From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran
Date: July 22, 2004 at 11:38:25 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hope that makes sense. I typed it really fast and didn’t spell check. sorry.

mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com> wrote:
Thanks again. I’m feelin kinda digusted with myself this morning because last night I got kinda drunk with a few opf my friends and then when everyone went there spereate ways I started to think about this (and none of them know) but I started thinking about one good last shot. So needless to say I circumed  to it and it gave me a terrible hardache (severse me right) and I went satraight to bed. I woke up this morning with the plan to go down to 80 and I heald off until tomorrow becasue my whole body was hurting.
It just disgusts me but iot has a tedincy of happening when I get a lIttle drunk. All my friends go home to there normal lives and I go to Harlem. Oh well I’m lookin at a new begininng in just two days and maybe that really was the last time. God, there have been so many last times… too many last times. I’m not going to beat myself up but its long sleeves today in 90 degrees and I’m going out to have dinner with my family so they might be the ones doing the beating.
I’m going to take mny laptop on the train and respond to all of the wonderful messages I’ve recieved in the past few days.
This time two days from now I’ll be 3,000 miles away with one bottle. Time to face this bitch for once and for all.
-M.

Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi Mcorcoran,

Like I said the odds are on your side.  Everyone seems to be the happier for taking the treatment.  Many are trying to save up the money to have it.  Addiction sucks, no doubt about it.  Think now, you have had input from half the people on the forum, people who are quite experienced.  Go there, clean up and get back to your life, you got a lot of years left.  Oh, one more thing, the place you work for most likely will not give you a good reference so I would let them fire me.  If they fire you for getting medical help you will at least get unemployment, if you quit you don’t get anything, I have seen more help on this forum than anywhere else.  You will be fine, you think we’re all bullshitting ya?   We’ve all been there and many of us have been to worse places.  Just don’t relapse.

Relax, you will be fine

– JIM

CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 7/21/2004 5:02:13 PM Central Daylight Time, mcorcoran27@yahoo.com writes:
Oh my God a week !!!!!! I had this thought today that me and this big fuckin habit of mine were finally coming face to face and I’m going to have every expectation that this bitch is not gonna let go without a fight and although I know its anyones fight and I’m not gonna win without getting a little fucked up but I will prevail.

Bless you! You have so many questions and anxieties. My advice to you is too let it all go. Do the next right thing and all will be fine. Have faith in your higher power. You have been led to this list and to Ibogaine. It is not a coincidence.
As far as your job….I think you are wise not to quit. In fact, I encourage you to make as few major changes as you can.
Let Ibogaine be the change you make. Quitting dope goes with the Ibogaine change. That is a HUGE life change and will bring on some stress.
You can do it though if you keep the rest of your life as familiar as possible.
I am so excited for you! For this reason I will be happy when this ordeal is over for you!
Callie

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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran
Date: July 22, 2004 at 11:36:46 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks again. I’m feelin kinda digusted with myself this morning because last night I got kinda drunk with a few opf my friends and then when everyone went there spereate ways I started to think about this (and none of them know) but I started thinking about one good last shot. So needless to say I circumed  to it and it gave me a terrible hardache (severse me right) and I went satraight to bed. I woke up this morning with the plan to go down to 80 and I heald off until tomorrow becasue my whole body was hurting.
It just disgusts me but iot has a tedincy of happening when I get a lIttle drunk. All my friends go home to there normal lives and I go to Harlem. Oh well I’m lookin at a new begininng in just two days and maybe that really was the last time. God, there have been so many last times… too many last times. I’m not going to beat myself up but its long sleeves today in 90 degrees and I’m going out to have dinner with my family so they might be the ones doing the beating.
I’m going to take mny laptop on the train and respond to all of the wonderful messages I’ve recieved in the past few days.
This time two days from now I’ll be 3,000 miles away with one bottle. Time to face this bitch for once and for all.
-M.

Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi Mcorcoran,

Like I said the odds are on your side.  Everyone seems to be the happier for taking the treatment.  Many are trying to save up the money to have it.  Addiction sucks, no doubt about it.  Think now, you have had input from half the people on the forum, people who are quite experienced.  Go there, clean up and get back to your life, you got a lot of years left.  Oh, one more thing, the place you work for most likely will not give you a good reference so I would let them fire me.  If they fire you for getting medical help you will at least get unemployment, if you quit you don’t get anything, I have seen more help on this forum than anywhere else.  You will be fine, you think we’re all bullshitting ya?   We’ve all been there and many of us have been to worse places.  Just don’t relapse.

Relax, you will be fine

– JIM

CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 7/21/2004 5:02:13 PM Central Daylight Time, mcorcoran27@yahoo.com writes:
Oh my God a week !!!!!! I had this thought today that me and this big fuckin habit of mine were finally coming face to face and I’m going to have every expectation that this bitch is not gonna let go without a fight and although I know its anyones fight and I’m not gonna win without getting a little fucked up but I will prevail.

Bless you! You have so many questions and anxieties. My advice to you is too let it all go. Do the next right thing and all will be fine. Have faith in your higher power. You have been led to this list and to Ibogaine. It is not a coincidence.
As far as your job….I think you are wise not to quit. In fact, I encourage you to make as few major changes as you can.
Let Ibogaine be the change you make. Quitting dope goes with the Ibogaine change. That is a HUGE life change and will bring on some stress.
You can do it though if you keep the rest of your life as familiar as possible.
I am so excited for you! For this reason I will be happy when this ordeal is over for you!
Callie

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: mcorcoran
Date: July 22, 2004 at 9:59:49 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Mcorcoran,

Like I said the odds are on your side.  Everyone seems to be the happier for taking the treatment.  Many are trying to save up the money to have it.  Addiction sucks, no doubt about it.  Think now, you have had input from half the people on the forum, people who are quite experienced.  Go there, clean up and get back to your life, you got a lot of years left.  Oh, one more thing, the place you work for most likely will not give you a good reference so I would let them fire me.  If they fire you for getting medical help you will at least get unemployment, if you quit you don’t get anything, I have seen more help on this forum than anywhere else.  You will be fine, you think we’re all bullshitting ya?   We’ve all been there and many of us have been to worse places.  Just don’t relapse.

Relax, you will be fine

– JIM

CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 7/21/2004 5:02:13 PM Central Daylight Time, mcorcoran27@yahoo.com writes:
Oh my God a week !!!!!! I had this thought today that me and this big fuckin habit of mine were finally coming face to face and I’m going to have every expectation that this bitch is not gonna let go without a fight and although I know its anyones fight and I’m not gonna win without getting a little fucked up but I will prevail.

Bless you! You have so many questions and anxieties. My advice to you is too let it all go. Do the next right thing and all will be fine. Have faith in your higher power. You have been led to this list and to Ibogaine. It is not a coincidence.
As far as your job….I think you are wise not to quit. In fact, I encourage you to make as few major changes as you can.
Let Ibogaine be the change you make. Quitting dope goes with the Ibogaine change. That is a HUGE life change and will bring on some stress.
You can do it though if you keep the rest of your life as familiar as possible.
I am so excited for you! For this reason I will be happy when this ordeal is over for you!
Callie

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From: iboga@ziplip.com <iboga@ziplip.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] flushing Methadone
Date: July 22, 2004 at 9:57:05 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I hear methadone sells for about $1 per milligram, not that I would know.
—– Original Message —–
From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: 21 Jul 04, 4:19 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Pikturez = thousand WordS
THATS THE MOST INSPIRATIONAL THING I’VE SEEN ALL DAY!
THANKS SO MUCH.
I KNOW I’LL LOOK AT THOSE A 100 TIMES BEFORE I LEAVE.
-M.

D H <dave@phantom.com> wrote:
this is me:

BeFoRe: 2 days post ibo dumping methadone in Italian toilet 1998

aFtEr: grimacing with Hawaiian Gods 2003

> ATTACHMENT part 2 image/jpeg x-mac-creator=3842494D; x-unix-mode=0644; x-mac-type=4A504547; name=dh_before_after.jpg

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Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone.
I
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From: QURADO@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] bupe detox question
Date: July 22, 2004 at 9:44:12 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

has any one ever detoxed off bupe and been able to stay clean and did you have withdrawals from bube ?  hanks all and good luck

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] 11111111111 (smoking tobacco on withdrawa)
Date: July 22, 2004 at 8:43:40 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

When I’m on withdrawal; smoking tobacco comes to me so ugly thing but I
can’t stop myself and I smoke it. Is there anyone feel the same way with me
about smoking tobacco on withdrawal?<

An emphatic yes here. Cigs taste like shit when I’m even only slightly
withdarwing, yet they also help calm me down then, even tasting as awful as
they always do in that state. I mean it, I get this horrid taste I’m not
ever aware of when not in opiated states, but like you Fake, I do not stop
entirely stop smoking- though I do usually smoke a lot less in those times.
One would think, or at least I would, that this wouldn’t be the case, that
due to needing something, anything to cut through the withdrawal hell I
would basically gobble up tobacco cigs, but it’s simpl not the case.
So yes, I empathize with you.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: FakePlacebo
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 3:45 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] 11111111111 (smoking tobacco on withdrawa)

Dear Friends,
When I’m on withdrawal; smoking tobacco comes to me so ugly thing but I
can’t stop myself and I smoke it. Is there anyone feel the same way with me
about smoking tobacco on withdrawal?

Best Regards
FakePlacebo
—– Original Message —–
From: iboga@ziplip.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 8:28 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] 11111111111

Jon,
Thank you for your reply.  It is good to hear the other side to better
understand.  I understand the compulsion part and the lack of appitite, but
I had never heard of aches and pain and sickness resulting from stopping
marijauana use after use.  I’ curious if similar case have been reported
from tobacco use?  Regardless, I think Prohibition of it promotes terrorism
and drug use and I believe the war on drugs is a war not designed to succeed
and that organized crime has made so much that it has saturated media,
political parties and has created the prison industrial complex that
continues to grow and grow as will the budget for the War on Drugs,
expecially things like the ‘Victory Act’ which links drug use with
terrorism, not drug prohibition, drug use.
But for real Jon thank you for your reply, I will be looking into it futher
and hope if you run across anything new let me know,
Be Well,
Jason

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From: “jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] marijauana ache&pain reduce consumption
Date: July 22, 2004 at 8:43:41 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

Hi All,

I would put it in same catagory as wanting a Pepsi, candy bar or coffee give or take a little.

Well I would certainly put it in the same category as coffee or Pepsi.
The reports I’ve read of caffeine withdrawal seem pretty similar to
marijuana withdrawal. that is, nervousness, irritablility, minor aches,
etc. I would wager to say that caffeine withdrawal is often even slightly
more intense than pot withdrawal.

dunno about candy bars tho, unless you’re talking about those
caffeine-enhanced things they have out now =)

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] (OT) a matter of perspective-last photo share
Date: July 22, 2004 at 8:39:54 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

HI all,
I apologize up front for all the off-topic posting recently on my part,
it’s just that I’m having extremely weird sleeping patterns lately, a bit of
nervousness and excitement building up in me, some extremely bad pain
lately, and other distractions that keep me waking and sleeping at the
oddest, most erratic moments. So, I’ve been a bit manic one might say- on
top of the “normal” manicness I go through most of my time.
The point to this is, I noticed last night a perfect example of how one
can look at something in one way and see beautiful art and love and sheer
loveliness, and in another see a crappy photo taken with a bad camera phone,
as in the attached photo of V, which really is an amazingly beautiful woman
and almost never takes a bad picture, even apparently with a cell phone
camera- as grainy as this one is.
So, I share a photo I took last night while dj’ing, of my lovely V (since I
talk about her a lot, I figure she’s ALMOST a part of this list- and in more
ways she’s also a part of this community of sorts, knowing many of the
characters who participate here even if she herself does not post here.)
Peace and love,
Preston

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From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Bupe and depression
Date: July 22, 2004 at 8:01:58 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi,

I’m not sure what you’re on about but I just wanted to add a couple of things.

I know Bup is used as a pain killer and WD tool, not sure about depression.  I’m on Subutex-if you have any specific questions don’t hesitate to ask!  And whats the deal with Ibo and Bup?  Do you have to stop it first?

I’m on Effexor for depression and it seems to work (I’ve waited 5yrs to find one that works).  Have you tried Sam-E?  I think you can get it in health food stores.  I’ve not had it coz here in the UK you have to be prescribed it but apparently you feel happier almost straight away!  Think it might be expensive as a long term thing though.

I too don’t nod on H or at least not til later.  Its the only time when I get my housework done!  It gets rid of my depression n I get really sociable.  Unfortunately then I want to see my friends n then I nod out n it looks bad.  I get very emotional too though n often burst into tears over something silly!

Oh and technically you’re supposed to taper down to 30ml Meth or less before switching to Bup but check this out…

lol Hannah
—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 10:36 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Bupe and depression

Hi Julian,

I don’t know if Bupe or subutex would be better for depression.  It is only a schedule III drug and you think a doc could write for it and use if for off the record use.  You could always try it if you lucky.  One thing if your going to take the Igo be sure to tell them about the Wellbutrin.  Tell them a month beforehand so as not to waste a plane ticket.  Wellbutrin may not be a pure SSRI drug but it works on one of the three brain chemicals.  Don’t forget to tell them.  From what I understand you can switch from a met clinic to a bupe clinic with no problem, but that is just what I here.

It seems I called several  docs and ask about it but they never called me back.  Guess they want money rather than Medicare and state cards.  I really think that it would help me, patient number 1 fits me to the “T”.

I have noticed that when some people nod out I am up and ready to go.  I talk alot feel GREAT and never have no depression.  Of course when it wears off it is the same old shit.  Whatever goes up must come down.  Sad but true.

Let me know how your doing,

– JIM

Sapphirestardus@aol.com wrote:
Jim, that is a great site. Extremely informative and got me interested in checking it out for myself as a possibility. I have yet to locate a site like this about methadone and it’s antidepressant activity. It works as an antidepressant for me, especially the categories used in the buprenorphine site of high energy, friendliness and vigor. I also use wellbutrin but as of yet, having tried many medications, only opiates have provided me with that antidepressant effect I am looking for. You know even with smack, I nodded out in the beginning, but after a short while, I experienced what the PDR called ‘paradoxical stimulation’ which is what I needed for my depression. I lacked energy, motivation, vigor, strength etc. and only the opiates provided that. With methadone, I achieve those effects but there are other problems I don’t want.
Could buprenorphine provide an even better treatment for (my) depression?

Jim, thankyou for the data man, it really helped me.

Sincerely,
Julian

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From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fw: Ibogaine
Date: July 22, 2004 at 7:43:53 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

From: “Hannah Clay” <spaglet@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine sites and mindvox
Date: July 22, 2004 at 7:36:44 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Erm…do you think we spend ALL day doing this?! Lol!  I spend maybe an hour a day on my PC and I think that’s ALOT.  Its only that long coz there’s so many messages to read!

Oh n don’t worry, I’m smoking some herb as I write this…
LOL Hannah

—– Original Message —–
From: <gboy@hush.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2004 6:02 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine sites and mindvox

> —–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—–
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Cool glad I did that at least. I dont know what a lot
> of you all are going through but would it not help at
> least some to smoke some herb and play a videogame or
> watch a movie to take your mind off fiending?
>
> I understand talking about everything does help out
> and I learn a lot about addiction by reading here,
> but doesn’t it help out too to just do something
> else and zone out? peace.
>
> .g
>
> On Fri, 16 Jul 2004 21:46:47 -0700 UUSEAN@aol.com wrote:
> >Hi g,
> >
> >  I am laughing at your post about the support groups, but it’s
> >kind of
> >a guilty laugh if you know what I mean. I am having a really tough
> >>
> >night here missing my drugs I guess, and I needed a laugh right about
> >>
> >now so thanks.
> >
> >  Sean
> —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—–
> Note: This signature can be verified at https://www.hushtools.com/verify
> Version: Hush 2.4
>
> wkYEARECAAYFAkD4suIACgkQxuwtmNNEJvQo8gCdGgbM6pcR4WgLdEIMoYxW6nXrIUUA
> n1uxuod8bU5eRwfSnqnzDo90W+w1
> =cpl1
> —–END PGP SIGNATURE—–
>
>
>
>
> Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
> secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2
>
> Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
> http://www.hushmail.com/services-messenger?l=434
>
> Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
> http://www.hushmail.com/about-affiliate?l=427
>
>
>   /]=———————————————————————=[\
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>   \]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>

From: “Hannah Clay” <spaglet@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] getting dosed (abused) in the ER
Date: July 22, 2004 at 7:16:26 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Here in the UK we have ‘Service User Groups’ though admittedly not many addicts seem to be aware of it!  We’re just starting one up in our town.  Whether you’re using or an ex-user its a way of communicating between the treatment providers and ‘us’.  Its kindof our chance to have our say.  Its only just started here and unfortunately hasn’t attracted much interest (though we are a tiny town-nothing like NYC!lol)  The meetings last a couple of hours, once a month and you get the chance to speak face-to-face to the people that run the show.  We had the head guy for alcohol n drugs in our county at the first one, people like that.  You bring up anything you think that’s important and re encouraged to ‘get into it’,.  For example, here (Lincoln, nr Nottingham in east midlands) we have crap needle exchanges-just open from 10am to 4pm Mon to Fri.  Nothing for those who work apart from the chemists which are further away n seem to have attitude probs!  This is ‘my thing’  I ‘work’ on it.  I’m really sorry,I just woke up and I can’t put across what I’m trying to say!

You’re even given £5 to attend.  We are supposed to come up with ideas and some caring people fought for us to be able to have this chance only no one seems interested.  Even for money.  Its sad but the truth.  Here we’re being given the chance to have a say over how we’re treated and no one can be bothered.

Sorry,I only meant to bring this up for Sean-these ‘unions’ are possible!

LOL Hannah.

PS: Does anyone have any experience of Subutex and Ibogaine yet?

Original Message —–
From: UUSEAN@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 9:27 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] getting dosed (abused) in the ER

Hi Preston,

Your story and others convince me even more that we need addict unions in this country. (US).  Addict unions lobby with the attitude of yes we are junkies, but we are also human beings.  You don’t need to refuse us treatment and throw us in jail.

Sean

From: “Hannah Clay” <spaglet@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] where is the Iboga web pages
Date: July 22, 2004 at 7:01:28 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Phoow!  That went SO far over my head! 😉
—– Original Message —–
From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 8:45 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] where is the Iboga web pages

Maybe they felt like spending the time to do all that. The reason it
loads right for everything
is because if you right-click the source code, it has a css file 400
lines long for windowze,
mac, sun and linux. The W3 validater won’t load even the first line
because
it’s using
webobjects. Don’t understand how it works exactly because it’s another
cool Apple gizmo
which does more then php but used to cost $50,000 for a site license.
THey changed the
price to $1,000 2 years back to compete with php which is free 😉 Mindvox
is not written in
html, it’s written in whatever it is written in and then rendered to
html when you request the
page to load in a browser.

It’s not really there, it makes the page for you when you request it
and makes it according to
what browser and machine you’re using. This is why it loads perfectly
for everything.

I’ve done web design for money, not a living exactly and pray I can avoid
that all the way
through grad school, kudos to Jon Freedlander too! 🙂 but I’ll leave
it at I don’t understand
most of the back end code that runs Mindvox and draws it to screen.

Nobody needed to do all that work to make the website do what it’s doing
now and reading
the css file it is changing settings on 100 different options that don’t
appear in the website at
all but in the web forums which go online and offline. I think all of
it was made to support the
forums and the “Psychedelic Temple” is there just because 😉

ibogaine.mindvox.com is just html and javascript. Saying it’s special
html for expensive
computers is bs. There is no such thing. Whoever made it defaulted it
to native res on a
Apple 17″ screen which is 1440 x 900. Anything less then that and it
starts to lose
information from the navigation. This is something that takes 2 minutes
to fix and changing
a hard coded screen limit to a wildcard *. I’m sure Patrick knows this.

This took alot more time to write then to look at, right-click view source
and if you know any
html what I said is obvious. It also has no alt tags, no meta tags, the
whole meta tags for
ibogaine.mindvox.com is “We Love Drugs” 😉 Mindvox the psychedelic temple
has no meta
tags at all.

Clicking some of the files they are all set to noindex, nocache, nofollow
and norobots. The
whole site is telling search engines to stay off it instead of index
anything. Yet mindvox is
hitting at lets see, having a slow week and at 72,124 on Alexa. The
highest
hitting ibogaine
site which I think is ibogaine.org is at 1,284,557.

This gave me a excuse to stop working for 20 minutes 🙂

What’s it all mean I don’t know. It obviously took a huge amount of work
to make all this,
ibogaine.mindvox.com keeps adding things including the implied threat
section? 😉
“Treatment” “Follow the Yellow Brick Road”. But at the same time, whoever
owns Mindvox
besides patrick is doing everything they can to prevent it from indexing.
In spite of that it’s at
72,000 and hitting 20,000 on some days according to the alexa traffic
graph.

Someone is loading a very big shotgun and hasn’t aimed it at anything
yet? 😉 When index is
hit, the whole thing will go to #1 and stay there. Except who will care,
because ibogaine.org
is already at #1 for the keyword ibogaine and there really isn’t anybody
reading the thing, it’s
always below 1 million.

I think that’s one of the things which has always made this place
interesting
to me 😉 I found
ibogaine by accident years ago, looking for Mindvox. I’m very much
guessing
most of the
people who land on Mindvox aren’t looking for ibogaine, the sites it
cross hits with are all
hacking and blackhat sites. Mindvox isn’t selling anything, not even
email which they easily
could. I don’t understand what is motivating anybody to do anything,
since its something that
obiously took a huge amount of creative and technical talent to make
and a lot of time and
money to keep running.

Whatever Patrick wants to put online is seen by alot of people, that’s
about all I think.

Peace out
Curtis

On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 14:22:01 -0700 =?iso-8859-1?q?David=20Varossi?=
<dvarossi@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
ibogaine.mindvox.com

As always with anything Mindvox, beutiful to look at
except none of it loads right unless you have a
expensive computer and a big monitor as was noted on
this list a week ago. Still hasn’t been fixed.

ibogaine.org

Huge collection of information that is so tangled up I
can’t ever find anything. The sections overlap and I’m
sure made sense a long time ago but it is impossible
to find anything in it.

ibogaine.co.uk

Great site which loads and is well organised but not
maintained very often.

ibogaine-research.org

More beautiful eye candy, which is almost the only
thing that is here. Nearly all the papers have been
removed.

Speaking for myself I have better luck searching
through the ibogaine sites using google, then I do
using any of the sites.

mindvox.com

As for Mindvox itself, gorgeous site. So complex that
none of it will make it through the WWW validator yet
it loads perfectly on every browser and every computer
I have ever used it on. Looks as if you folks spent a
huge amount of time and effort to make your
“psychedelic temple” because all of it works
perfectly. Except the only content on the entire site
are deranged rants, weird art and a 90 page media kit
or “Media Temple” if you prefer.

Everyone has their priorities and I much appreciate
the time and effort it must take to keep it all
running and to all the folks who run the web sites.
I’m only stating what it’s like to try and find
anything in all of it.

I gave up and started using google.

Cheers mates
David

Carla Barnes wrote:

The Mindvox site is more a psychedelic temple? 😉
Its
beautiful but thats not the ibogaine part, the
ibogaine part is let me unload bookmarks

http://ibogaine.mindvox.com

Howard has a ibogaine site

http://ibogaine.desk.nl

UK site

http://www.ibogaine.co.uk

Ibogaine scientific site

http://www.ibogaine-research.org

Carla B

— Mustafa izgi <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com> wrote:
Dear Mr. Howard,
What happened to iboga web pages. I made a search
on
google and there is only crabs about iboga. Where
did you move your pages it was one and only. I find
Mindwox but there was only strange pictures in  it.

With My Best Regards
FakePlacebo

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
http://www.hushmail.com/services-messenger?l=434

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From: paul maclennan <leisure1@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] 10mg taper? [was: reduce consumption -iboga zip]
Date: July 22, 2004 at 6:58:04 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

D H wrote:

Paul,

I can only speak from experience, my own.

I did NOT taper down to only 5-10mgs. I was at maintained at 80mgs for almost 4 years and I had begun to taper down before I had any Ibogaine treatment arrangements. I got down as low as 18mgs, and got cold feet and went back up to 35mgs. I had tapered back down to 20mgs by the time my ibo treatment was confirmed/scheduled. (I was going to taper off all the way if the ibo plans fell thru). Because of circumstances that no longer matter, I went back up to 40mgs the week prior to the Ibo.

In February 1998 I took my last 40mg dose of methadone and 24 hours later I took the ibogaine.

I suffered very slight withdrawal (cramping legs, restlessness), even tho I could only keep 1/2 of the ibo dose down. I was sleeping 4-5 hours a night in that first week. I did feel like death warmed over, I was physically in pretty poor shape. I hadn’t exercised in 4 years, my diet consisted of hagendaz ice cream, twix bars and greasy to-go food. A week later I took a supplemental dose that completely catapulted me into a very very good experience and head space. My whole perspective changed. I started to recover physically.

10,000 miles away from my clinic, in a foreign country with barely any money, I flushed the remainder of my methadone down the toilet (a good 2.5 week supply). That just doesn’t “happen” spontaneously.

Did I stay clean since then?

I used heroin 2X post Ibo, both within the first 4 months. The first time was fucking excellent, reset receptors, euphoric nod, drifting dream state, the whole nine yards. The second time was horrible, I almost died, it thoroughly kicked my ass and sent me running back to my abandoned “AFTERCARE PLANS” -hint hint.

I haven’t shot, snorted or smoked any heroin (or cocaine or any other narcotics for that matter) since.

I have, upon occasion, had to take pain medications over the last few years for chronic pain and over a year ago I took a small dose of Ibo to interrupt an Oxycontin dependance.

in summary, the WoNdEr of ibogaine is that it can be used seamlessly to interrupt opiate addiction/withdrawal. That is the Beauty of it.

No Need to suffer! That is like, the whole fucking point of Ibogaine (plus all the esoteric/spiritual fringe benefits).

Peace,
_.dh

On Monday, July 19, 2004, at 11:42 PM, paul maclennan wrote:

Hi – i’m interested to follow this thread re: reducing dose prior to ibo – when I wrote asking about this a few months back – the very strong response from all who replied was that I should NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES take ibo without drastically reducing my habit (methodone), to something like 5-10 mg – which is a long way from where i’m at now…So, in the light of recent posts, can we get some general cosensus (hows about a vote) from those people who actually know what they are talking about and have some basis for their view, on whether it is ok to go from straight from a daily meth dose of @ 100 mg to an ibo dose??

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Howard, Dave (_.dh), Patrick and others who replied, thanks for the comments/info/advice.  Thats good to know, although I also understand and agree with the suggestion that, while not imperative to reduce/eliminate prior, it is a good idea if possible and may make things better overall..sure makes sense if the general idea is to get off anyway (that is,  get off getting off).

I had order and recived both raw root product and hcl from france and had stashed it away for future reference and the right time etc, but have had a rather unfortunate run in with the law enforcement authorities…who found the intriging little plastic bag of white powder along with other naughty stuff and paraphanelia of use and abuse and the buggers have taken it off me…I may yet get it back if i’m lucky, but have now got an appointment with big man in white wig soon about the other (non-ibo) thingymijigs and whatsits…dont really fancy sending off another $700 notes for a new stash, so…..am thinking of trying a clinic approach….

Next query is specifically to any/all treatment providers: i’m wanting to contact a clinic to check out treatment details and timing etc.  From the looks of things this is going to require a fairly longhaul plane ride, in addition to the standard ibo journey.  Providers can contact me directly tp discuss in more detail at ” leisure1@xtra.co.nz” .
I’m away for the next 5 days but will respond to anyt responses after that.

Thanks all, cheers and all

Maxleisure

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] AnyoneFormer’done gone2Bupe
Date: July 22, 2004 at 4:53:34 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jason, I tried switching from bup to meth. I could only take it for 2 weeks, maybe a little more. I detoxed abruptly for 5 days before I switched and never did feel right. I suspect it was the naltrexone reacting to the meth in me. Hope this may help a little it just wasn’t for me.   Randy

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] depression
Date: July 22, 2004 at 4:01:17 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Press Association

Wednesday July 21, 2004 

An increased risk of suicidal behaviour occurs among users of four different anti-depressant drugs in the first month after starting treatment, researchers said.

The results showed no difference in patients’ reactions to old-style anti-depressants known as tricyclic drugs and newer SSRIs such as Prozac.

There have recently been concerns about reports of self-destructive thoughts or attempted suicides linked to SSRIs, especially among young people.

But the new findings suggest that increased suicidal behaviour may simply be due to the fact that anti-depressants take time to start working.

A person diagnosed with depression will have to wait two weeks or more for his or her medication to take effect. During this time a patient may be at increased risk of suicidal tendencies.

The claim that SSRIs create a hazard over and above this effect does not seem to be born out by the new study.

SSRIs, or selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors, increase the availability of the brain chemical serotonin, which is linked to mood and anxiety.

The American study focused on patients in the UK taking one of four anti-depressants – fluoxetine, paroxetene, amitriptyline and dothiepin.

The first two are SSRIs sold under the brand names Prozac and Seroxat, while the others are tricyclics.

Dr Hershel Jick and colleagues at Boston University, Massachusetts, estimated the relative risks of non-fatal suicide behaviour in the patients.

They found that in the first month after starting treatment, there was an increased risk of suicidal behaviour which was the same for all four drugs.

© Copyright Press Association Ltd 2004, All Rights Reserved.

From: “FakePlacebo” <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] 11111111111 (smoking tobacco on withdrawa)
Date: July 22, 2004 at 3:45:30 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Friends,
When I’m on withdrawal; smoking tobacco comes to me so ugly thing but I can’t stop myself and I smoke it. Is there anyone feel the same way with me about smoking tobacco on withdrawal?

Best Regards
FakePlacebo
—– Original Message —–
From: iboga@ziplip.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 8:28 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] 11111111111

Jon,
Thank you for your reply.  It is good to hear the other side to better understand.  I understand the compulsion part and the lack of appitite, but I had never heard of aches and pain and sickness resulting from stopping marijauana use after use.  I’ curious if similar case have been reported from tobacco use?  Regardless, I think Prohibition of it promotes terrorism and drug use and I believe the war on drugs is a war not designed to succeed and that organized crime has made so much that it has saturated media, political parties and has created the prison industrial complex that continues to grow and grow as will the budget for the War on Drugs, expecially things like the ‘Victory Act’ which links drug use with terrorism, not drug prohibition, drug use.
But for real Jon thank you for your reply, I will be looking into it futher and hope if you run across anything new let me know,
Be Well,
Jason

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] off topic…gun ban
Date: July 22, 2004 at 1:00:39 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This is one ban I support 100%.
Callie

More Than 50 Members of Entertainment Community Sign Letter Calling on
President Bush, U.S. Congress, to Strengthen and Renew Federal Assault
Weapons Ban

WASHINGTON – July 21 – More than 50 members of the entertainment
community—including Kevin Bacon, Patricia Heaton, Dustin Hoffman, Helen
Hunt, Scarlett Johansson, Christine Lahti, William H. Macy, Robert
Redford, Rob Reiner, Brooke Shields, Barbra Streisand, and others—today
sent a letter to President Bush and Congress calling for the federal
assault weapons ban to be strengthened and renewed. Without action by
the President and Congress, the ban will expire on September 13th,
2004.

The letter calls for passage of the “Assault Weapons Ban and Law
Enforcement Protection Act of 2003” (S. 1431 and H.R. 2038), a bill
that would not only renew, but strengthen, the federal assault weapons
ban. Excerpts from the letter were published today in a paid
advertisement in Roll Call (follow this link for the full text of the
letter and the ad), stating:

the gun industry has successfully evaded the current assault weapons
ban enacted in 1994. They have done this by making slight, cosmetic
design changes to their “post-ban” guns, a tactic the industry has
dubbed “sporterization.”

In the past 10 years, the gun industry has flooded the market with
these weapons. Today, “post-ban” AR-15s, AK-47s, MAC-10s, and even UZIs
are legal to manufacture, buy, and sell—and are being used in
crime….From 1998 through 2001, one out of five law enforcement
officers slain in the line of duty were killed with an assault weapon.

We know this legislation will work. It is modeled on California’s
successful assault weapons ban passed in 1999. The rest of the nation
deserves a law as strong as California’s.

The ad was paid for by the Violence Policy Center (VPC), Trauma
Foundation, and Violence Prevention Coalition of Greater Los Angeles. A
new study released yesterday by the VPC, United States of Assault
Weapons: Gunmakers Evading the Federal Assault Weapons Ban, reveals
that more than 40 gunmakers in 22 states are currently marketing
“post-ban” assault weapons—including UZIs, AK-47s, AR-15s, MAC-10s,
Galils, MP5s, Tommy Guns, Stens, and others. The study also estimates
that more than one million “post-ban” assault weapons have been
manufactured in the United States since the ban’s passage in 1994 and
warns that today “there are more assault weapon manufacturers and
assault weapons available for sale than ever before.”

The letter to President Bush and Congress was signed by: Marc Abraham,
Debbie Allen, Kevin Bacon, Laurie & Bill Benenson, Loraine & Peter
Boyle, Elizabeth Brooks & Larry Frazin, Shelly & Larry Brown, Jackson
Browne, Susan Titelman Cooder & Ry Cooder, Jamie Lee Curtis, Alison &
David Dinerstein, Carrie Fisher, Eve & Bill Gerber, Mimi Polk Gitlin &
Richard Gitlin, Patricia Heaton & David Hunt, Dustin Hoffman, Helen
Hunt, Anjelica Huston, Marta Kauffman & Michael Skloff, Scarlett
Johansson, Jena & Michael King, Christine Lahti & Thomas Schlamme,
Cyndi Lauper, Lyn & Norman Lear, Téa Leoni, William H. Macy, Samantha
Mathis, Harlee McBride & Richard Belzer, Shiva Rose & Dylan McDermott,
Patty Smyth McEnroe & John McEnroe, Susan & Graham Nash, Leslie Neale &
John Densmore, Sally & Van Dyke Parks, Stephanie & John Perenchio,
Danica & Charles Perez, Tom Petty, Robert Redford, Rob Reiner, Tim
Roth, Deborah & Carlos Santana, Charlie Sheen, Brooke Shields & Chris
Henchy, Nancy & Martin Short, Julia & Aaron Sorkin, Barbra Streisand,
James Taylor, Heather Thomas, Cheryl Tiegs, Daena Title & Jason
Alexander, Jenno Topping & Chris Moore, and Don Was.

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] AnyoneFormer’done gone2Bupe
Date: July 22, 2004 at 12:52:07 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/21/04 11:12:20 AM, iboga@ziplip.com writes:

Can anyone point me in the right direction on where to find information
from people who have used methadone and switched to Bup as to how they
felt they were different.  I think they are some of the few people who
aren’t paid off and I trust their oppinion a bit more.  Any links or personal
expereince is appreciated.

Jason

http://www.readybb.com/nama_wespeakmethadone/viewforum.php?f=13

http://www.readybb.com/watchdog/viewforum.php?f=2

These are two methadone bulletin boards that will allow you to discuss this
matter with persons who have switched.  You have to register for watchdog to
post but, not for the nama we speak methadone boards.

Also go to the newsgroup alt.drugs.hard

Howard

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] pot withdrawals? LOL!
Date: July 22, 2004 at 12:21:04 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/21/2004 5:02:13 PM Central Daylight Time, mcorcoran27@yahoo.com writes:
Oh my God a week !!!!!! I had this thought today that me and this big fuckin habit of mine were finally coming face to face and I’m going to have every expectation that this bitch is not gonna let go without a fight and although I know its anyones fight and I’m not gonna win without getting a little fucked up but I will prevail.

Bless you! You have so many questions and anxieties. My advice to you is too let it all go. Do the next right thing and all will be fine. Have faith in your higher power. You have been led to this list and to Ibogaine. It is not a coincidence.
As far as your job….I think you are wise not to quit. In fact, I encourage you to make as few major changes as you can.
Let Ibogaine be the change you make. Quitting dope goes with the Ibogaine change. That is a HUGE life change and will bring on some stress.
You can do it though if you keep the rest of your life as familiar as possible.
I am so excited for you! For this reason I will be happy when this ordeal is over for you!
Callie

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Pikturez = thousand WordS
Date: July 21, 2004 at 11:51:13 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Carla, is that you? You are gorgeous girl!
Callie

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Pikturez = thousand WordS
Date: July 21, 2004 at 11:49:20 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

WOW!
That picture speaks a MILLION words! Unfuckinbelievable!
You are lookin’ good Dave!
Callie

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] and now for something entirely different
Date: July 21, 2004 at 11:33:05 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Maybe that’s why the hospital called two orderlies and a cop when they refussed you your met.

you may have a point there.

_.dh

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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] marijauana ache&pain reduce consumption
Date: July 21, 2004 at 11:20:50 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Jim,

I agree with you…except the coffee withdrals..they can really suck.  If I don’t get my maintenance dose of caffeine, I get a killer headache (an Exedrenn headache:). About ten years ago when I tried abstaining form all my chemical addictions, I tried giving up coffee too.  I actually asked my doctor if there was something he could give me for caffeine withdrawal.  He said.”sure..coffee.”

At the time I had a rip roaring orgasms addiction going which helped keep the chemicals at bay.  Eventually I decided to have a hit off the devil’s dick, though, and now it’s ten years later.  I did find though, that there was nothing like a full blown crack/heroin addiction to cure sex addiction.  Who has time for sex?:)

Sean

From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] marijauana ache&pain reduce consumption
Date: July 21, 2004 at 10:43:18 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi All,

I would put it in same catagory as wanting a Pepsi, candy bar or coffee give or take a little.

– JIM

“jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu> wrote:
In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

> weird. I admit, I do get a wee bit cranky sometimes when I’m out of herb
> (wait, what am I saying. I’m ALWAYS out of herb, I never ever have any and
> never possess any of that demond weed ever. That stuff is bad.)
> Seriously though, thanks for posting this info. I sometimes forget I’m
> not everyone, and not everyone is going to react/act the same as I as a
> result of having/not having drugs of all kinds.
> Peace and love,
> Preston

Yeah, it’s entirely possible that the withdrawal symptoms from cannabis
are soley psychological in their origin. like some of those articles said,
the pot withdrawal syndrome hasn’t been very well studied.. probably
cause it doesn’t really cause any signficant problems. and one of
them mentioned not seeing withdrawal symptoms from pot in lab animals.

so i think it would certainly be plausible that it’s psychologically
based.

take care

jon

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__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com

From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] and now for something entirely different
Date: July 21, 2004 at 10:33:59 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi All,

Maybe that’s why the hospital called two orderlies and a cop when they refussed you your met.  Now, if you can just find ’em in a dark alley  – LOL

Looking good Buddy,

– JIM

D H <dave@phantom.com> wrote:
I can’t remember if I am posing for the WWF promo or if i am passing a
methadone boulder

> ATTACHMENT part 2.1 application/applefile name=dh-wwf.jpg

> ATTACHMENT part 2.2 image/jpeg x-mac-creator=3842494D; x-unix-mode=0644; x-mac-type=4A504547; name=dh-wwf.jpg

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – Helps protect you from nasty viruses.

From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Pikturez = thousand WordS
Date: July 21, 2004 at 10:23:16 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Mcorcoran,

Sometime in every persons life they have to fight something.  A person, a cause, a war, whatever.  I would look at it this way:  I am getting rid of the liquid hand cuffs, I don’t have to pee when asked, I don’t have to get up and be somewhere or else.  Look at the odds, there are on your side.  1000’s of people have taken Ibogaine and if you asked them would they do it again what do you think the odds would be 99% glad?  I don’t think I’ve heard of one person regret the experience.  Do you want to stay on the met for 5 or 10 years?  Relax, you will be fine.  Enjoy.

Best to ya,
– JIM

mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com> wrote:
THATS THE MOST INSPIRATIONAL THING I’VE SEEN ALL DAY!
THANKS SO MUCH.
I KNOW I’LL LOOK AT THOSE A 100 TIMES BEFORE I LEAVE.
-M.

D H <dave@phantom.com> wrote:
this is me:

BeFoRe: 2 days post ibo dumping methadone in Italian toilet 1998

aFtEr: grimacing with Hawaiian Gods 2003

> ATTACHMENT part 2 image/jpeg x-mac-creator=3842494D; x-unix-mode=0644; x-mac-type=4A504547; name=dh_before_after.jpg

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Do you Yahoo!?
Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com

From: “jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] pot withdrawals? LOL!
Date: July 21, 2004 at 9:52:35 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

Hey Preston,

I’m a freak and from all I’ve read (it seems like all I do is read these
days:) there are no little to no physical withdrawal symptoms form pot. It’s
friggen malarky. Is that how you spell malarky?  Never actually typed it before.  I
tend to use bullshit more, but substituting with malraky may add spice to my
post..thatnks for it.

Well it depends how you define physical symptoms..

The most common complaints after stopping pot abruptly seem to be
irritablitiy and anxiety. Anxiety can often (and especially in me..ehe)
have physical manifestation like achiness and nausea.

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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] 11111111111
Date: July 21, 2004 at 9:50:44 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

earthbound ghost
need, rancid ectoplasm swept out by an old junky coughing and spitting in
the sick morning.”

no-one sez it better than ole’ WB

_.dh

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From: “jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] 11111111111
Date: July 21, 2004 at 9:47:08 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

Jon,
Agreed on Alcohol, have a friend dealing with that for years now, has to have to physically function.  Nobody believes me when I say Alcohol is physically addicting not crack, although I beleive crack-cocaine to be the most mentally addicting substance I know of.  Unless, of course, you’ve heard otherwise.  Take care bro.

yeah i agree with you about coke.. very very addictive mentally, but not
physically.

william burroughs thought so too apparently:

“We are getting some C on RX at this time. Shoot it in the mainline, son.
You can smell it going in, clean and cold in your nose and throat then a
rush of pure pleasure right through the brain lighting up those C
connections. Your head shatters in white explosions. Ten minutes later you
want another shot… you will walk across town for another shot. But if
you can’t score for C you eat, sleep and forget about it. This is a yen of
the brain alone, a need without feeling and without body, earthbound ghost
need, rancid ectoplasm swept out by an old junky coughing and spitting in
the sick morning.”

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From: “jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: (OT)-djing at Duck and meet at ibogaine conference)
Date: July 21, 2004 at 9:36:46 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

a-HA! That’s it Jon. I remember now. It was a very brief meet though, yes?
Lookin’ forward to our next meet.

yeah it was pretty brief… mostly in between lectures i think

Peace,
Preston (btw, for those in NYC, tonight in my last Wednesday night dj’ing at
Duck, after 11PM, til 4AM, so if anyone would like to swing by and listen to
great music, drink cheap alcohol or cheaper soda/water, and throw some
darts, please do stop by and say hello.)

at some point in the not horribly distand future i’m sure i’ll be visiting
nyc again. it’d be cool to say hi ifnwhen i do =)

jon

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From: “jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] marijauana ache&pain reduce consumption
Date: July 21, 2004 at 9:34:52 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

weird. I admit, I do get a wee bit cranky sometimes when I’m out of herb
(wait, what am I saying. I’m ALWAYS out of herb, I never ever have any and
never possess any of that demond weed ever. That stuff is bad.)
Seriously though, thanks for posting this info. I sometimes forget I’m
not everyone, and not everyone is going to react/act the same as I as a
result of having/not having drugs of all kinds.
Peace and love,
Preston

Yeah, it’s entirely possible that the withdrawal symptoms from cannabis
are soley psychological in their origin. like some of those articles said,
the pot withdrawal syndrome hasn’t been very well studied.. probably
cause it doesn’t really cause any signficant problems. and one of
them mentioned not seeing withdrawal symptoms from pot in lab animals.

so i think it would certainly be plausible that it’s psychologically
based.

take care

jon

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From: iboga@ziplip.com <iboga@ziplip.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] 11111111111
Date: July 21, 2004 at 8:58:13 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jon,
Agreed on Alcohol, have a friend dealing with that for years now, has to have to physically function.  Nobody believes me when I say Alcohol is physically addicting not crack, although I beleive crack-cocaine to be the most mentally addicting substance I know of.  Unless, of course, you’ve heard otherwise.  Take care bro.
Jason
—–Original Message—–
From: jon [mailto:jfreed1@umbc.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004, 11:23 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] 11111111111

Jon,
Thank you for your reply.  It is good to hear the other side to better
understand.  I understand the compulsion part and the lack of appitite,
but I had never heard of aches and pain and sickness resulting from
stopping marijauana use after use.  I’ curious if similar case have been
reported from tobacco use?  Regardless, I think Prohibition of it promotes
terrorism and drug use and I believe the war on drugs is a war not
designed to succeed and that organized crime has made so much that it has
saturated media, political parties and has created the prison industrial
complex that continues to grow and grow as will the budget for the War on
Drugs, expecially things like the ‘Victory Act’ which links drug use with
terrorism, not drug prohibition, drug use.
But for real Jon thank you for your reply, I will be looking into it
futher and hope if you run across anything new let me know,

No doubt most of what the media and government tells us about drugs is BS;
especially the government.

I don’t think that the existence of a marijuana withdrawal syndrome in any
way supports the idea of prohibition. First of all, as we can see from the
people on the list, marijuana withdrawal doesn’t happen to a lot of
people. Second, even when it does happen, it usually doesn’t interfere
with the persons life. When I run out of weed, I’m just kinda grumpy and
surly for a couple days, and sometimes i get minor aches. But it doesn’t
affect the work i do, or interaction with friends or anything (though my
temper is probably somewhat shorter for a bit…ehe)

But most importantly, whatever marijuana’s withdrawal effects may be, they
are NOTHING compared to alcohol withdrawal. Hell, even heroin withdrawal
is a walk in the park compared to a bad case of alcohol withdrawal.

In fact, alcohol withdrawal is probably one of the most dangerous, if not
the most dangerous, types of withdrawal.

And it’s perfectly legal, of course.

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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Pikturez = thousand WordS
Date: July 21, 2004 at 9:00:27 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

oh…

Carla…

there is you… way down …. there.

cute indeedy!

_.dh

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From: <gboy@hush.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Pikturez =3D3D thousand WordS
Date: July 21, 2004 at 8:53:57 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—–
Hash: SHA1

Crown of Hippies, why don’t you shut up and pay hushmail
$30 to get a bigger mailbox like I did.

Carla don’t listen to him, do you have any more of you?

Any other junkie hotties, Patrick is very busy, send all
the photos to me! I will help all of you. Everything
that patrick has going on, I’ve got even more!

Curtis for real dog shut up are you stupid or gay?

.g

On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 17:36:50 -0700 crownofthorns@hushmail.com wrote:
Bad time to turn off attachments bro, Carla is a cutie 🙂

As much as I liked seeing what some of you look like, especially
Carla
🙂 Could you all please
stop now? This list makes my mailbox fill up in a day, it’s now
doing
that in 5 hours!

Peace out send photos to Patrick and ask him to put them in the

ibogaine.mindvox.com

people section for the list.
Curtis

On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 17:25:21 -0700 D H <dave@phantom.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, July 21, 2004, at 01:53 PM, Carla Barnes wrote:

cute, disturbed,
artistic psycho guys 😉 the more strung out and self
hating the better 😉

i resemble that remark!

and where oh where is YOUR picture, C?

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—–
Note: This signature can be verified at https://www.hushtools.com/verify
Version: Hush 2.4

wkYEARECAAYFAkD/ECUACgkQxuwtmNNEJvRWEgCeNFQ/9qY9OfDE71I0YizQ3/F4BDUA
mwZMQnmNzLXeTvo2taMioLuvgvnq
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From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Pikturez =3D thousand WordS
Date: July 21, 2004 at 8:36:50 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Bad time to turn off attachments bro, Carla is a cutie 🙂

As much as I liked seeing what some of you look like, especially Carla
🙂 Could you all please
stop now? This list makes my mailbox fill up in a day, it’s now doing
that in 5 hours!

Peace out send photos to Patrick and ask him to put them in the ibogaine.mindvox.com

people section for the list.
Curtis

On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 17:25:21 -0700 D H <dave@phantom.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, July 21, 2004, at 01:53 PM, Carla Barnes wrote:

cute, disturbed,
artistic psycho guys 😉 the more strung out and self
hating the better 😉

i resemble that remark!

and where oh where is YOUR picture, C?

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] pot withdrawals? LOL!
Date: July 21, 2004 at 8:30:58 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Preston,

I’m a freak and from all I’ve read (it seems like all I do is read these days:) there are no little to no physical withdrawal symptoms form pot. It’s friggen malarky. Is that how you spell malarky?  Never actually typed it before.  I tend to use bullshit more, but substituting with malraky may add spice to my post..thatnks for it.

Your freak
sean

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] and now for something entirely different
Date: July 21, 2004 at 8:30:52 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I can’t remember if I am posing for the WWF promo or if i am passing a methadone boulder

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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Ibo and Paxil
Date: July 21, 2004 at 8:25:14 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Jim and list,

Jim, I think you meant MAOIs.  They are rarely used for depression these days I understand, and those who are on them better know they are because just about all the SSRISs and actually most OTC cough and cold medications don’t mix with them.

Of course I really don’t know about ibogaine and MAOIs.

Sean

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Pikturez = thousand WordS
Date: July 21, 2004 at 8:25:21 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Wednesday, July 21, 2004, at 01:53 PM, Carla Barnes wrote:

cute, disturbed,
artistic psycho guys 😉 the more strung out and self
hating the better 😉

i resemble that remark!

and where oh where is YOUR picture, C?

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Pikturez = thousand WordS
Date: July 21, 2004 at 7:53:42 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You look alot like I thought you might. Always
wondered what you looked like, Patrick I’ve seen
photos and video of for years. Both of you are what I
used to spend my life dating, cute, disturbed,
artistic psycho guys 😉 the more strung out and self
hating the better 😉 😉 You too Preston, hi! 😉

Hi everyone, hi to all the police reading this list
too! I think this should motivate me really hard not
to relapse 😉

Carla B

— D H <dave@phantom.com> wrote:
this is me:

BeFoRe:  2 days post ibo dumping methadone in
Italian toilet 1998

aFtEr: grimacing with Hawaiian Gods 2003

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – Send 10MB messages!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Pikturez = thousand WordS
Date: July 21, 2004 at 7:10:10 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

THATS THE MOST INSPIRATIONAL THING I’VE SEEN ALL DAY!
THANKS SO MUCH.
I KNOW I’LL LOOK AT THOSE A 100 TIMES BEFORE I LEAVE.
-M.

D H <dave@phantom.com> wrote:
this is me:

BeFoRe: 2 days post ibo dumping methadone in Italian toilet 1998

aFtEr: grimacing with Hawaiian Gods 2003

> ATTACHMENT part 2 image/jpeg x-mac-creator=3842494D; x-unix-mode=0644; x-mac-type=4A504547; name=dh_before_after.jpg

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Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone.

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Pikturez = thousand WordS
Date: July 21, 2004 at 7:07:11 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

this is me:

BeFoRe:  2 days post ibo dumping methadone in Italian toilet 1998

aFtEr: grimacing with Hawaiian Gods 2003

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From: <gboy@hush.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Help Follow-up 93 WIRED article
Date: July 21, 2004 at 6:48:07 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—–
Hash: SHA1

Patrick that’s amazing. I always thought all of you made
a lot of money in dot com like everybody else. You didn’t
you made money by being yourselves. You were rich and paid
and really fucked everything up didn’t you.

Thanks! You make me feel better about my life!

“Back then,” says Patrick, “we pretty much behaved like assholes.

What’s changed?

Dog, you are a Cult of Personality. Reading back all your
shit over the years that is you. Wired is falling all over all
of you, you got so many articles.

Cult of Personality, take MindVox and ram ibogaine right back
into Wired. They won’t do some crazy drug cult article, but
they sure will do MindVox article #15 thanks to ibogaine. It
is much much much much much much simpler to get a mag
to cover something they’ve followed over so many years.

No editor is going to give anyone so much trouble over doing
what they have a track record for doing over so many years.

You know you want to do it. So do it already! Get ibogaine
into Wired!!!!

Must suck to be you. You really did have everything and
shot it all up.

You’re back thanks to ibogaine. Let the whole world know
it. That’s what you’re great at.

While your at it and I’m planning your day for you, get
Fancher to do ibogaine instead of pulling a sour face and
leaving 15 minutes after he gets to any of the conferences.
He has to love this shit secretly if he spends his whole life
hanging around with you. Then all of MindVox is back thanks
to ibogaine!

.g

On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 09:29:59 -0700 iboga@ziplip.com,
UNEXPECTED_DATA_AFTER_ADDRESS@.SYNTAX-ERROR. wrote:
http://web.archive.org/web/19970606074337/http://ig.cs.tu-berlin.de:80/PE/WIRED/1.5/
departments/electrosphere/mindvox.html

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wkYEARECAAYFAkD+8qcACgkQxuwtmNNEJvQcLgCgpxnwg23gCAYdswRXnbQl6Zz0/IgA
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Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] pot withdrawals? LOL!
Date: July 21, 2004 at 6:01:35 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m sorry about not having to have a chance to respond to all of you, life has been rather crazy getting everything together and figuring out work and anyway not much time to sit in front of the computer. Not to mention whenever I’m around no one is on and as soon as I get back there are a million posts and its hard to keep track. but I’ve appreciated all the words of encouragement and I will get back to all of you in the next day or so.
As for the “pot withdrawals” I don’t think that THC is physically addictive… I”m sure its not. However from personal experience I have been the vicious cycle of coming up and down on meth and whenever I’m dropping I know that I’m going to be a lot more comfortable than I am if I don’t smoke. I didn’t smoke for the first time in at least 6 months on Monday night and I felt like shit in the evening then Tuesday I smoked some haze and I felt great.

As for me I think today was my last day at work. I’m going to call in and tell them that I have a family emergency and I have to go and be with them overseas and will be gone at least a week (taking two) and I hope that works. I don’t want to lose this job because I don’t know if I will find a situation where I’m making this much money for a little while. But more money has always meant more problems for me. A slower paced environment might be a very good thing and I’m thinking that I’m going to be seeing though slightly different eyes in a week or so. Oh my God a week !!!!!! I had this thought today that me and this big fuckin habit of mine were finally coming face to face and I’m going to  have every expectation that this bitch is not gonna let go without a fight and although I know its anyones fight and I’m not gonna win without getting a little fucked up but I will prevail.
I haven’t decided what Ibogine is. Maybe the ring??? or don king? Pay Per View.
Okay I need to get on this plane already!
hEY ALL. -m.

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>I’ve never heard of people (non-medical users) who use then stop marijuana
exerience minor aches and/or pains, can you point me in the right direction
on research or experience with that? Is is a full body ache or specific
part.<

Me neither, nor have I ever experiencedit msyelf, being a LONG time pot
smoker who has gone through periodic spells of not smoking- the only
“withdrawals” I’ve ever experienced were “gee, wish I had some pot but I
don’t- oh well,” then moved right on without a single ache nor pain
anywhere.
Weird. Am I a freak, or is the assertion that pot causes physical
withdrawal symptoms malarkey? (no offense, but I do think it is malarkey.)
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From:
To:
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 12:03 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] marijauana ache&pain reduce consumption

> “with some minor aches and pains”
> I’ve never heard of people (non-medical users) who use then stop marijuana
exerience minor aches and/or pains, can you point me in the right direction
on research or experience with that? Is is a full body ache or specific
part.
> By the way anyone see “crossballs” marijauana episode? Also ibogaine was
mentioned in a VH-1’s Johnny Deep documentary, not indepth, just the word
was used, probably they heard it in the book.
> > —–Original Message—–
> > From: jon [mailto:jfreed1@umbc.edu]
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2004, 1:34 PM
> > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > Subject: Re: [ibogaine] reduce consumption
> >
> >
> > > On a slightly different note, I’ve found that tonight is the worst
night
> > > so far withdrawal wise.
> > > As some of you know I went down last Tuesday 10 whole mils from 100 to
90
> > > and I had hardly any withdrawal. Then today almost a week later I
start
> > > feeling it tonight!
> > > I smoke a huge amount of pot and last night I ran out so that might
have
> > > something to do with it because for me (with me meth not dope) if I’m
a
> > > little sick if I smoke a little I feel better. But I’m tryin to save a
> > > little cash and clear my system out a little and 60 bucks for pot is
just
> > > too much for me with all of the expense I’m looking at in these next
> > > couple of weeks. I might shoot some dope tonight. No I wont but it was
> > > therapeutic to write it.
> > > Okay going for a walk to clear this sick sick head of mine. look
forward
> >
> > Running out of pot could certainly have done it… as benign a drug as
pot
> > usually is, it does often elicit a withdrawal syndrome if someone who
> > smokes frequently suddenly stops. Pot withdrawal is usually just some
> > irritability with some minor aches and pains and such, but together with
> > the reduction in your meth dose, that could very well be the culprit.
> >
> > If you can’t afford more pot, you might want to head down to a health
> > food/vitamin store and get some valerian root and/or kava.
> >
> >
> >
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> >
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> >
> >
>
>
>
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>
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>
>

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Bupe and depression
Date: July 21, 2004 at 5:36:55 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Julian,

I don’t know if Bupe or subutex would be better for depression.  It is only a schedule III drug and you think a doc could write for it and use if for off the record use.  You could always try it if you lucky.  One thing if your going to take the Igo be sure to tell them about the Wellbutrin.  Tell them a month beforehand so as not to waste a plane ticket.  Wellbutrin may not be a pure SSRI drug but it works on one of the three brain chemicals.  Don’t forget to tell them.  From what I understand you can switch from a met clinic to a bupe clinic with no problem, but that is just what I here.

It seems I called several  docs and ask about it but they never called me back.  Guess they want money rather than Medicare and state cards.  I really think that it would help me, patient number 1 fits me to the “T”.

I have noticed that when some people nod out I am up and ready to go.  I talk alot feel GREAT and never have no depression.  Of course when it wears off it is the same old shit.  Whatever goes up must come down.  Sad but true.

Let me know how your doing,

– JIM

Sapphirestardus@aol.com wrote:
Jim, that is a great site. Extremely informative and got me interested in checking it out for myself as a possibility. I have yet to locate a site like this about methadone and it’s antidepressant activity. It works as an antidepressant for me, especially the categories used in the buprenorphine site of high energy, friendliness and vigor. I also use wellbutrin but as of yet, having tried many medications, only opiates have provided me with that antidepressant effect I am looking for. You know even with smack, I nodded out in the beginning, but after a short while, I experienced what the PDR called ‘paradoxical stimulation’ which is what I needed for my depression. I lacked energy, motivation, vigor, strength etc. and only the opiates provided that. With methadone, I achieve those effects but there are other problems I don’t want.
Could buprenorphine provide an even better treatment for (my) depression?

Jim, thankyou for the data man, it really helped me.

Sincerely,
Julian

Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – 100MB free storage!

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] (OT) Re: [ibogaine] to Julian in regard to fish et al
Date: July 21, 2004 at 5:10:24 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

and as long as they came from mindvox, I never questioned it.<

Always be careful with attachments. I don’t open any of them unless someone
writes me specifically to say, “I’m posting/sending/including an attachment
in the NEXT email,” and when I myself post one, I make sure to make a note
that it is me doing so, not a worm/virus posting it.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 2:53 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] to Julian in regard to fish et al

Hey Callie! It was nice hearing from you but I’m sorry for your distress.I’m
curious about e-mails with attached sites and/or attached pictures. Is this
site totally secure or as secure as could be? I get alot of e-mail with
attachements and as long as they came from mindvox, I never questioned it.
Is that stupid of me? Most of the people sending the e-mail I know their
names but some I do not.
Hope you feel better soon Callie.

Sincerely,

Julian

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: (OT)-djing at Duck and meet at ibogaine conference)
Date: July 21, 2004 at 5:05:34 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

a-HA! That’s it Jon. I remember now. It was a very brief meet though, yes?
Lookin’ forward to our next meet.
Peace,
Preston (btw, for those in NYC, tonight in my last Wednesday night dj’ing at
Duck, after 11PM, til 4AM, so if anyone would like to swing by and listen to
great music, drink cheap alcohol or cheaper soda/water, and throw some
darts, please do stop by and say hello.)

—– Original Message —–
From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 1:13 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] (OT) Re: [ibogaine] FAQ’s – Considering Ibogaine

I have met you before Jon, I’m sure. This photo rings loud bells, but I
can’t remember where- maybe at the march itself? At Dana’s? Some party
or
activist event?
Hmmm.

yeah, we met at the ibogaine conference the spring before last =)

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] marijauana ache&pain reduce consumption
Date: July 21, 2004 at 4:44:49 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

weird. I admit, I do get a wee bit cranky sometimes when I’m out of herb
(wait, what am I saying. I’m ALWAYS out of herb, I never ever have any and
never possess any of that demond weed ever. That stuff is bad.)
Seriously though, thanks for posting this info. I sometimes forget I’m
not everyone, and not everyone is going to react/act the same as I as a
result of having/not having drugs of all kinds.
Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 12:54 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] marijauana ache&pain reduce consumption

“with some minor aches and pains”
I’ve never heard of people (non-medical users) who use then stop
marijuana
exerience minor aches and/or pains, can you point me in the right
direction on research or experience with that?  Is is a full body ache
or
specific part.

In my personal experience, the aches are similar to opiate withdrawal in
that it feels a bit like the flu; only far, far, FAR milder. =)

and here’s a couple journal articles i found on pub med…

Marijuana withdrawal in humans: effects of oral THC or divalproex.

Haney M, Hart CL, Vosburg SK, Nasser J, Bennett A, Zubaran C, Foltin RW.

New York State Psychiatric Institute, Department of Psychiatry, College of
Physicians and Surgeons of Columbia University, New York, NY 10032, USA.
mh235@columbia.edu

Abstinence following daily marijuana use can produce a withdrawal syndrome
characterized by negative mood (eg irritability, anxiety, misery), muscle
pain, chills, and decreased food intake. Two placebo-controlled,
within-subject studies investigated the effects of a cannabinoid agonist,
delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC: Study 1), and a mood stabilizer,
divalproex (Study 2), on symptoms of marijuana withdrawal. Participants
(n=7/study), who were not seeking treatment for their marijuana use,
reported smoking 6-10 marijuana cigarettes/day, 6-7 days/week. Study 1 was
a 15-day in-patient, 5-day outpatient, 15-day in-patient design. During
the in-patient phases, participants took oral THC capsules (0, 10 mg) five
times/day, 1 h prior to smoking marijuana (0.00, 3.04% THC). Active and
placebo marijuana were smoked on in-patient days 1-8, while only placebo
marijuana was smoked on days 9-14, that is, marijuana abstinence. Placebo
THC was administered each day, except during one of the abstinence phases
(days 9-14), when active THC was given. Mood, psychomotor task
performance, food intake, and sleep were measured. Oral THC administered
during marijuana abstinence decreased ratings of ‘anxious’, ‘miserable’,
‘trouble sleeping’, ‘chills’, and marijuana craving, and reversed large
decreases in food intake as compared to placebo, while producing no
intoxication. Study 2 was a 58-day, outpatient/in-patient design.
Participants were maintained on each divalproex dose (0, 1500 mg/day) for
29 days each. Each maintenance condition began with a 14-day outpatient
phase for medication induction or clearance and continued with a 15-day
in-patient phase. Divalproex decreased marijuana craving during
abstinence, yet increased ratings of ‘anxious’, ‘irritable’, ‘bad effect’,
and ‘tired.’ Divalproex worsened performance on psychomotor tasks, and
increased food intake regardless of marijuana condition. Thus, oral THC
decreased marijuana craving and withdrawal symptoms at a dose that was
subjectively indistinguishable from placebo. Divalproex worsened mood and
cognitive performance during marijuana abstinence. These data suggest that
oral THC, but not divalproex, may be useful in the treatment of marijuana
dependence.

The time course and significance of cannabis withdrawal.

Budney AJ, Moore BA, Vandrey RG, Hughes JR.

Department of Psychiatry, University of Vermont, South Burlington 05403,
USA. abudney@zoo.uvm.edu

Withdrawal symptoms following cessation of heavy cannabis (marijuana) use
have been reported, yet their time course and clinical importance have not
been established. A 50-day outpatient study assessed 18 marijuana users
during a 5-day smoking-as-usual phase followed by a 45-day abstinence
phase. Parallel assessment of 12 ex-users was obtained. A withdrawal
pattern was observed for aggression, anger, anxiety, decreased appetite,
decreased body weight, irritability, restlessness, shakiness, sleep
problems, and stomach pain. Onset typically occurred between Days 1-3,
peak effects between Days 2-6, and most effects lasted 4-14 days. The
magnitude and time course of these effects appeared comparable to tobacco
and other withdrawal syndromes. These effects likely contribute to the
development of dependence and difficulty stopping use. Criteria for
cannabis withdrawal are proposed.

A review of the published literature into cannabis withdrawal symptoms in
human users.

Smith NT.

Addictions Directorate, South London and Maudsley NHS Trust, Marina House,
63-65 Denmark Hill, London SE5 8RS, UK.

Recent experimental papers have been published suggesting the appearance
of withdrawal symptoms upon the cessation of cannabis use in human users
and proposing the introduction of a diagnostic category for such symptoms.
Research also continues to be published into the physiological effects of
cannabis on animals via self-administration paradigms and the use of
cannabinoid antagonists. Animal research does not provide a clear picture
of a consistent withdrawal effect. The literature on withdrawal symptoms
appearing in human users following the cessation of cannabis is
investigated in this paper to clarify this issue further and enhance the
scientific and lay debate on the status of the drug. Methodological
weaknesses in the literature are highlighted. These include variable
levels of drug-dose administered in laboratory conditions, lack of
controlled studies and the absence of definitions of the withdrawal
syndrome sought. It is suggested that the studies conducted to date do not
provide a strong evidence base for the drawing of any conclusions as to
the existence of a cannabis withdrawal syndrome in human users, or as to
the cause of symptoms reported by those abstaining from the drug. On the
basis of current research cannabis cannot be said to provide as clear a
withdrawal pattern as other drugs of abuse, such as opiates. However,
cannabis also highlights the need for a further defining of withdrawal, in
particular the position that rebound effects occupy in this phenomenon. It
is concluded that more controlled research might uncover a diagnosable
withdrawal syndrome in human users and that there may be a precedent for
the introduction of a cannabis withdrawal syndrome before the exact root
of it is known.

Abstinence symptoms following smoked marijuana in humans.

Haney M, Ward AS, Comer SD, Foltin RW, Fischman MW.

New York State Psychiatric Institute and Department of Psychiatry, College
of Physicians and Surgeons of Columbia University, NY 10032, USA.
mh235@columbia.edu

Symptoms of withdrawal after oral delta9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC)
administration have been reported, yet little is known about the
development of dependence on smoked marijuana in humans. In a 21-day
residential study, marijuana smokers (n = 12) worked on five psychomotor
tasks during the day (0915-1700 hours), and in the evening engaged in
recreational activities (1700-2330 hours); subjective-effects measures
were completed 10 times/day. Food and beverages were available ad libitum
from 0830 to 2330 hours. Marijuana cigarettes (0.0, 1.8, 3.1% THC) were
smoked at 1000, 1400, 1800, and 2200 hours. Placebo marijuana was
administered on days 1-4 . One of the active marijuana doses was
administered on days 5-8, followed by 4 days of placebo marijuana (days
9-12). The other concentration of active marijuana cigarettes was
administered on days 13-16, followed by 4 days of placebo marijuana (days
17-20); the order in which the high and low THC-concentration marijuana
cigarettes were administered was counter-balanced between groups. Both
active doses of marijuana increased ratings of “High,” and “Good Drug
Effect,” and increased food intake, while decreasing verbal interaction
compared to the placebo baseline (days 1-4). Abstinence from active
marijuana increased ratings such as “Anxious,” “Irritable,” and “Stomach
pain,” and significantly decreased food intake compared to baseline. This
empirical demonstration of withdrawal from smoked marijuana may suggest
that daily marijuana use may be maintained, at least in part, by the
alleviation of abstinence symptoms.

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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Fwd: A Picture Share!
Date: July 21, 2004 at 4:20:58 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Julian , I was a born Sabra. Since ’77 I live in the Netherlands.

Talk soon.

Sara
Van: Sapphirestardus@aol.com [mailto:Sapphirestardus@aol.com] 
Verzonden: woensdag 21 juli 2004 22:07
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [ibogaine] Fwd: A Picture Share!

Sara, you definitely don’t look as I pictured you. I know this is a dumb stereotype, but I figured being from the Netherlands, you’d have…you know…sort of light hair and blue eyes. I feel stupid but………….It’s nice to have your picture since I’m going to  see you in September. By the way I got my passport application, so I’ve started the ball rolling. 
                                                                              Sincerely, 
                                                                                        Julian

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Shiny Happy People!!!
Date: July 21, 2004 at 4:16:03 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Awwwwwww.I LOVE sharing pictures!
Sara, you are gorgeous! We are quite a good looking bunch!
Julian, I have not seen you yet. I seen Howard on his website. Fakeplacebo do you have a pic?
Thanks for sharing your faces! It is better for me when I have an image to put in my mind when I am corresponding!
Cool day so far!
Callie

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fwd: A Picture Share!
Date: July 21, 2004 at 4:07:17 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sara, you definitely don’t look as I pictured you. I know this is a dumb stereotype, but I figured being from the Netherlands, you’d have…you know…sort of light hair and blue eyes. I feel stupid but………….It’s nice to have your picture since I’m going to  see you in September. By the way I got my passport application, so I’ve started the ball rolling.
Sincerely,
Julian

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Fwd: A Picture Share!
Date: July 21, 2004 at 3:38:49 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

And this is my picture.

Sara
Van: Sapphirestardus@aol.com [mailto:Sapphirestardus@aol.com] 
Verzonden: woensdag 21 juli 2004 21:36
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [ibogaine] Fwd: A Picture Share!

Mark, the picture is fine.

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From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] FAQ’s – Considering Ibogaine
Date: July 21, 2004 at 3:37:26 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You know Steve it’s amazing how true it is about picturing people in our heads based on their words or how their voice sounds and how different it usually ends up. That is not how I picture you at all. But you look good man.
Julian

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fwd: A Picture Share!
Date: July 21, 2004 at 3:35:47 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Mark, the picture is fine.

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Check out MindVox -1996
Date: July 21, 2004 at 3:31:26 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yeah! OH WELL! But Howard, do you know the feeling most people taking methadone have when it begins to take effect? It’s not really euphoria but rather a ‘sense of well being. Energy, vigor talkativeness. I remember in jail, the guards used to call it ‘rocket fuel’ or ‘rocket juice’ . Every time they called you to get you medicated they’d say,”Robinson! Time for your Rocket Juice! Let’s go!”

Do you get that also from Buprenorphine? You know that type of well being and energy?                                Thanks for your time Howard,
Julian

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] FAQ’s – Considering Ibogaine
Date: July 21, 2004 at 3:25:50 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Fantastic Callie! When I get my money I’m going to get a digital and then I’ll post my ugly mug!
Thanks Callie,
Julian

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] reduce consumption
Date: July 21, 2004 at 3:23:38 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Even better than immodium is Lomotil, but you need a prescription the last I remember. It is related to the opiates and really stops the runs and withdrawal.
Regards,
Julian

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] FAQ’s – Considering Ibogaine
Date: July 21, 2004 at 3:21:51 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sounds cool to me!
Julian

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Bupe and depression
Date: July 21, 2004 at 3:20:08 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jim, that is a great site. Extremely informative and got me interested in checking it out for myself as a possibility. I have yet to locate a site like this about methadone and it’s antidepressant activity. It works as an antidepressant for me, especially the categories used in the buprenorphine site of high energy, friendliness and vigor. I also use wellbutrin but as of yet, having tried many medications, only opiates have provided me with that antidepressant effect I am looking for. You know even with smack, I nodded out in the beginning, but after a short while, I experienced what the PDR called ‘paradoxical stimulation’ which is what I needed for my depression. I lacked energy, motivation, vigor, strength etc. and only the opiates provided that. With methadone, I achieve those effects but there are other problems I don’t want.
Could buprenorphine provide an even better treatment for (my) depression?

Jim, thankyou for the data man, it really helped me.

Sincerely,
Julian

From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] contactInfoCurrent? via telephone (+1 (415) 904 0660) or email (info@wired.com).
Date: July 21, 2004 at 3:05:04 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Speaking of Patrick and the psychedelic temple, bro MindVox appears at
least 20 times in
wired, including a few articles about it, your words, lot of words, they
ran a Wired forum on
Mindvox. Why not tell anyone there you know about ibo?

The first MindVox article

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/1.05/cybernaut.html

7 years later, the last one 🙂 Sorry I know it may have bad memories
but it’s too funny. Now I
know where the encyclopida and everything2 entries come from which cross
link Mindvox
with “sex, drugs, mismanagement” 🙂

http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,3085,00.html

Peace out and if your going to turn your companies into a mess, make
it a real big one 🙂 🙂
🙂

Sex, drugs and mismanagement
Curtis

On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 09:48:56 -0700 iboga@ziplip.com,
UNEXPECTED_DATA_AFTER_ADDRESS@.SYNTAX-ERROR. wrote:
Is this current contact info for WIRED contact us via telephone (+1
(415) 904 0660) or email (info@wired.com). ? Any any contact info
to any and all  media (especially publications that have done reports
in the past like OMNI, and even the Bill O Reily show that Howard
was on “it seems to make you ask allot of questions doesn’t it?”
then no follow up report, gee I wonder why : )  Any contact information
snail mail, or perferably phone or fax, e-mailing them is like throwing
rocks at a tank except that at least makes some sound.  Any contact
info that isn’t auto-respond would be very appreciated.  If not lets
fund our own cable station, at least as an option and if they refuse
to let that happen then let everynews people know about the suppression
of another point of view in a ‘free speach’ agenda.  Any idea why
are iboga/ine people in NY not calling Howard Stern, he would jump
all over this if done right?  Have an orgasm going on in the background
while giving the facts about iboga/ine or have a phone sex person
doing her thing while giving facts about iboga/ine.  Give me the
number I’ll call.  I’m not sure, Howard would be awesome at getting
the job done, get a blow up blow job doll going at it with a migit
and your facts being told over it, that would be soooooo great
and lot’s of people across the country will hear about it.  And
learn about it, and the more people know about the lack of government
funding regarding FDA approved research for iboga/ineMC18 or anything
else a congressional hearing or Kerry or Bush might actually see
that it is in their favor to embrace this.  Actually, prohibition
has made them so saturated that they probaby couldn’t even embrace/support
the funding of independent research even if they though it was the
right thing to do.  You know, the man behind the man behind the man
factor.
Sorry so many posts, this list helps me and I am thankful to Patrick
and everyone at mindvox for this temple.
Be Well,
Jason

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
http://www.hushmail.com/services-messenger?l=434

Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
http://www.hushmail.com/about-affiliate?l=427

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From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] to Julian in regard to fish et al
Date: July 21, 2004 at 2:53:48 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Callie! It was nice hearing from you but I’m sorry for your distress.I’m curious about e-mails with attached sites and/or attached pictures. Is this site totally secure or as secure as could be? I get alot of e-mail with attachements and as long as they came from mindvox, I never questioned it. Is that stupid of me? Most of the people sending the e-mail I know their names but some I do not.
Hope you feel better soon Callie.
Sincerely,
Julian

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Julian’s computer was – Re: [ibogaine] Check out MindVox -1996
Date: July 21, 2004 at 2:47:44 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m on window but to show you my ignorance, I don’t even know what Ram is. I got the computer as a gift and everything I do with the computer I had to learn by trial and error. (feel sorry for me and my hardship? hahaha)

Julian

From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] 11111111111
Date: July 21, 2004 at 2:06:50 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jon,
Thank you for your reply.  It is good to hear the other side to better
understand.  I understand the compulsion part and the lack of appitite,
but I had never heard of aches and pain and sickness resulting from
stopping marijauana use after use.  I’ curious if similar case have been
reported from tobacco use?  Regardless, I think Prohibition of it promotes
terrorism and drug use and I believe the war on drugs is a war not
designed to succeed and that organized crime has made so much that it has
saturated media, political parties and has created the prison industrial
complex that continues to grow and grow as will the budget for the War on
Drugs, expecially things like the ‘Victory Act’ which links drug use with
terrorism, not drug prohibition, drug use.
But for real Jon thank you for your reply, I will be looking into it
futher and hope if you run across anything new let me know,

No doubt most of what the media and government tells us about drugs is BS;
especially the government.

I don’t think that the existence of a marijuana withdrawal syndrome in any
way supports the idea of prohibition. First of all, as we can see from the
people on the list, marijuana withdrawal doesn’t happen to a lot of
people. Second, even when it does happen, it usually doesn’t interfere
with the persons life. When I run out of weed, I’m just kinda grumpy and
surly for a couple days, and sometimes i get minor aches. But it doesn’t
affect the work i do, or interaction with friends or anything (though my
temper is probably somewhat shorter for a bit…ehe)

But most importantly, whatever marijuana’s withdrawal effects may be, they
are NOTHING compared to alcohol withdrawal. Hell, even heroin withdrawal
is a walk in the park compared to a bad case of alcohol withdrawal.

In fact, alcohol withdrawal is probably one of the most dangerous, if not
the most dangerous, types of withdrawal.

And it’s perfectly legal, of course.

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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] pot withdrawals
Date: July 21, 2004 at 2:00:27 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The only withdrawals I’ve ever experienced off of pot is slight crankiness.

_.dh

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From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Ibo and Paxil
Date: July 21, 2004 at 1:44:11 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You are one of quite a few people who I respect because I can tell when
someone knows what they are talking about.  I think you gave Randy good
advice but if the half life is say 12 hours and you double that to 24, I
do not think it would be good to give the person Ibo.  The PDR often says
two weeks for MAO inhibitors I would say the same about SSRI’s.  You may
want to check out the link I gave Randy in my last post.

thanx =)

like i said, i’m not a doctor, so the times i gave were just guesses based
on what i’ve read and experienced (when i’ve waited double the half life
before taking other things that could conceivable interact with the meds
i’m on, i haven’t had any problems).

But I would definately consult with a medical professional before using
that time scheme on someone other than myself =)

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From: iboga@ziplip.com <iboga@ziplip.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] 11111111111
Date: July 21, 2004 at 1:28:23 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jon,
Thank you for your reply.  It is good to hear the other side to better understand.  I understand the compulsion part and the lack of appitite, but I had never heard of aches and pain and sickness resulting from stopping marijauana use after use.  I’ curious if similar case have been reported from tobacco use?  Regardless, I think Prohibition of it promotes terrorism and drug use and I believe the war on drugs is a war not designed to succeed and that organized crime has made so much that it has saturated media, political parties and has created the prison industrial complex that continues to grow and grow as will the budget for the War on Drugs, expecially things like the ‘Victory Act’ which links drug use with terrorism, not drug prohibition, drug use.
But for real Jon thank you for your reply, I will be looking into it futher and hope if you run across anything new let me know,
Be Well,
Jason

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Ibo and Paxil
Date: July 21, 2004 at 1:40:16 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Jon,

In my last post I wrote IMO inhibitors when it should of been MAO inhibitors.  I tried all the antidepressents.  Effexor and Depakote(sp) and Wellburtin(SP) caused me problems with the first two causeing bad nightmares, bumping into walls (no not funny), and hallucinations that were not were not pleasant and talking to people who were not there.
The IMO inhibitors I think are seldom used as they conflict with things like cheese, chocolate and food products and medications.

I am scared of a few drugs SSRI types, methadone and llam which I never tried.  I would wait at the very least two weeks and maybe four before trying Ibo.   Of course this is a layman’s opinion.  If it is your life, check google and read several articles and see what you might find.  Then you can make a half-assed intelligent decision.  You can not make a full-assed intelligent decision until your a doc – LOL.

You are one of quite a few people who I respect because I can tell when someone knows what they are talking about.  I think you gave Randy good advice but if the half life is say 12 hours and you double that to 24, I do not think it would be good to give the person Ibo.  The PDR often says two weeks for MAO inhibitors I would say the same about SSRI’s.  You may want to check out the link I gave Randy in my last post.

Later,

– JIM

jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu> wrote:

> Iboga/ine with anti-depresants, should they be stopped before, how long
> before, and when or should they be started back up again? A link would
> help.

The number of days to stop an antidepressant before ibogaine would most
likely depend on its half-life. Short acting antidepressents like effexor
(note, NOT effexor XR) may have a half life as short as 5 hours, while
other antidepressants, such as remeron have a half life of up to 40 hours.

I would suspect allowing about double the half life would probably be
safe, but I’m not a medical doctor or anything, so please don’t take this
as gospel.

Ibogaine itself has a fairly short half life, usually from an hour to a
few hours, but it’s metabolite noribogaine, which is also
psychopharmicalogically active, has a very, very long half. I haven’t been
able to find a good estimation of noribogaine’s half-life, but the reports
I have found seem to indicate that it is probably at least a couple days.
Possibly even longer, because it’s absorbed by fat cells.

So I would probably hazard a guess to say that SSRI’s shouldn’t be resumed
for at least a week or two after ibogaine’s primary effects have ended.
After a week or two, I would probably evaluate the patient, possible with
a Hamilton Depression Rating Scale or some other such psychometric, and
determine whether or not the antidepressants should be resumed judging by
that. If the client does need to resume antidepressants, I probably
wouldn’t start him/her on a full dose again immediately, but rather would
start low and increase the dose slowly as when s/he was first prescribed
them.

jon

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From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Ibo and Paxil
Date: July 21, 2004 at 1:17:42 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I would pay close attention to what Jon said.  When they switch drugs they
often want a person to go two or weeks when using an IMO (I forget the
initals some kind of oxide inhibitor, used to see it all the time in the
PDR) it can be fatal when mixed with paxel and other SSRI.

Yeah, MAOI’s have a LOT of interaction precautions. But they aren’t used
very much anymore, pretty much only when nothing else has worked.

First you may have to cut down because there can be withdrawel, some doc
do not believe it.  You can believe it or not, take a look at this link
http://paxil.bizland.com/jbuzzw.htm

I can definately attest to this… I don’t think i ever got withdrawal
from paxil, but remeron gives me HELLA withdrawal…

and you will at least have some info to help you make up your mind.  No, I
am not a doc or anything in the medical field.  Just read a lot.  But from
what I have read it is no game, the SSRI are BAD.  I could go on and tell
you the Columbine High Students were on some kind of SSRI type drugs, as
well as they lady in Texas who drowned her kids, I could go on and on you
but you can do your own research – can’t beat Google.  And read more than
one article.  Of all the complications I would say IMO and SSRI would be
the biggest.  But what do I know?

Well, I wouldn’t say that SSRI’s are bad… I mean, i’m pretty sure that
they saved my life. But like with many drugs, they need to be treated with
respect and caution… they can be very powerfool tools for helping
people, but they can be dangerous if used carelessly.

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From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] (OT) Re: [ibogaine] FAQ’s – Considering Ibogaine
Date: July 21, 2004 at 1:13:17 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I have met you before Jon, I’m sure. This photo rings loud bells, but I
can’t remember where- maybe at the march itself? At Dana’s? Some party or
activist event?
Hmmm.

yeah, we met at the ibogaine conference the spring before last =)

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From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] pot withdrawals? LOL!
Date: July 21, 2004 at 1:12:23 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Me neither, nor have I ever experiencedit msyelf, being a LONG time pot
smoker who has gone through periodic spells of not smoking- the only
“withdrawals” I’ve ever experienced were “gee, wish I had some pot but I
don’t- oh well,” then moved right on without a single ache nor pain
anywhere.
Weird. Am I a freak, or is the assertion that pot causes physical
withdrawal symptoms malarkey? (no offense, but I do think it is malarkey.)

Not all pot heads seem to exhibit withdrawal, but it certainly isn’t
uncommon.

I know I get some symptoms when I first stop, and I know my roommate’s
girlfriend does, cause i have to deal with her bitchiness…eheh

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From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Ibo and Paxil
Date: July 21, 2004 at 1:10:43 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Iboga/ine with anti-depresants, should they be stopped before, how long
before, and when or should they be started back up again?  A link would
help.

The number of days to stop an antidepressant before ibogaine would most
likely depend on its half-life. Short acting antidepressents like effexor
(note, NOT effexor XR) may have a half life as short as 5 hours, while
other antidepressants, such as remeron have a half life of up to 40 hours.

I would suspect allowing about double the half life would probably be
safe, but I’m not a medical doctor or anything, so please don’t take this
as gospel.

Ibogaine itself has a fairly short half life, usually from an hour to a
few hours, but it’s metabolite noribogaine, which is also
psychopharmicalogically active, has a very, very long half. I haven’t been
able to find a good estimation of noribogaine’s half-life, but the reports
I have found seem to indicate that it is probably at least a couple days.
Possibly even longer, because it’s absorbed by fat cells.

So I would probably hazard a guess to say that SSRI’s shouldn’t be resumed
for at least a week or two after ibogaine’s primary effects have ended.
After a week or two, I would probably evaluate the patient, possible with
a Hamilton Depression Rating Scale or some other such psychometric, and
determine whether or not the antidepressants should be resumed judging by
that. If the client does need to resume antidepressants, I probably
wouldn’t  start him/her on a full dose again immediately, but rather would
start low and increase the dose slowly as when s/he was first prescribed
them.

jon

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Ibo and Paxil
Date: July 21, 2004 at 1:10:06 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Randy,

I would pay close attention to what Jon said.  When they switch drugs they often want a person to go two or weeks when using an IMO (I forget the initals some kind of oxide inhibitor, used to see it all the time in the PDR) it can be fatal when mixed with paxel and other SSRI.

First you may have to cut down because there can be withdrawel, some doc do not believe it.  You can believe it or not, take a look at this link http://paxil.bizland.com/jbuzzw.htm

and you will at least have some info to help you make up your mind.  No, I am not a doc or anything in the medical field.  Just read a lot.  But from what I have read it is no game, the SSRI are BAD.  I could go on and tell you the Columbine High Students were on some kind of SSRI type drugs, as well as they lady in Texas who drowned her kids, I could go on and on you but you can do your own research – can’t beat Google.  And read more than one article.  Of all the complications I would say IMO and SSRI would be the biggest.  But what do I know?

Best to ya,

– JIM

iboga@ziplip.com, UNEXPECTED_DATA_AFTER_ADDRESS@.SYNTAX-ERROR. wrote:
Iboga/ine with anti-depresants, should they be stopped before, how long before, and when or should they be started back up again? A link would help.
> —–Original Message—–
> From: jon [mailto:jfreed1@umbc.edu]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2004, 2:02 PM
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Ibo and Paxil
>
>
> > I may have been on the road and missed it but is there any info on
> > Ibogaine
> > and Paxil?. Randy
>
>
> I have yet to come across any real research on it, but it would seem
> reasonable to me to wait AT LEAST as long as paxil’s half-life (and
> preferably LONGER) before dosing with ibogaine.
>
> The reason being that paxil is an SSRI, and ibogaine is a serotonin
> agonist. Combining SSRI’s and SE agonists can be very dangerous, even
> fatal.
>
>
>
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>

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From: iboga@ziplip.com <iboga@ziplip.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] contactInfoCurrent? via telephone (+1 (415) 904 0660) or email (info@wired.com).
Date: July 21, 2004 at 12:48:56 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Is this current contact info for WIRED contact us via telephone (+1 (415) 904 0660) or email (info@wired.com). ? Any any contact info to any and all  media (especially publications that have done reports in the past like OMNI, and even the Bill O Reily show that Howard was on “it seems to make you ask allot of questions doesn’t it?” then no follow up report, gee I wonder why : )  Any contact information snail mail, or perferably phone or fax, e-mailing them is like throwing rocks at a tank except that at least makes some sound.  Any contact info that isn’t auto-respond would be very appreciated.  If not lets fund our own cable station, at least as an option and if they refuse to let that happen then let everynews people know about the suppression of another point of view in a ‘free speach’ agenda.  Any idea why are iboga/ine people in NY not calling Howard Stern, he would jump all over this if done right?  Have an orgasm going on in the background while giving the facts about iboga/ine or have a phone sex person doing her thing while giving facts about iboga/ine.  Give me the number I’ll call.  I’m not sure, Howard would be awesome at getting the job done, get a blow up blow job doll going at it with a migit and your facts being told over it, that would be soooooo great
and lot’s of people across the country will hear about it.  And learn about it, and the more people know about the lack of government funding regarding FDA approved research for iboga/ineMC18 or anything else a congressional hearing or Kerry or Bush might actually see that it is in their favor to embrace this.  Actually, prohibition has made them so saturated that they probaby couldn’t even embrace/support the funding of independent research even if they though it was the right thing to do.  You know, the man behind the man behind the man factor.
Sorry so many posts, this list helps me and I am thankful to Patrick and everyone at mindvox for this temple.
Be Well,
Jason
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From: iboga@ziplip.com <iboga@ziplip.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Help Follow-up 93 WIRED article
Date: July 21, 2004 at 12:29:59 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://web.archive.org/web/19970606074337/http://ig.cs.tu-berlin.de:80/PE/WIRED/1.5/departments/electrosphere/mindvox.html
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From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] marijauana ache&pain reduce consumption
Date: July 21, 2004 at 12:54:01 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“with some minor aches and pains”
I’ve never heard of people (non-medical users) who use then stop marijuana
exerience minor aches and/or pains, can you point me in the right
direction on research or experience with that?  Is is a full body ache or
specific part.

In my personal experience, the aches are similar to opiate withdrawal in
that it feels a bit like the flu; only far, far, FAR milder. =)

and here’s a couple journal articles i found on pub med…

Marijuana withdrawal in humans: effects of oral THC or divalproex.

Haney M, Hart CL, Vosburg SK, Nasser J, Bennett A, Zubaran C, Foltin RW.

New York State Psychiatric Institute, Department of Psychiatry, College of
Physicians and Surgeons of Columbia University, New York, NY 10032, USA.
mh235@columbia.edu

Abstinence following daily marijuana use can produce a withdrawal syndrome
characterized by negative mood (eg irritability, anxiety, misery), muscle
pain, chills, and decreased food intake. Two placebo-controlled,
within-subject studies investigated the effects of a cannabinoid agonist,
delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC: Study 1), and a mood stabilizer,
divalproex (Study 2), on symptoms of marijuana withdrawal. Participants
(n=7/study), who were not seeking treatment for their marijuana use,
reported smoking 6-10 marijuana cigarettes/day, 6-7 days/week. Study 1 was
a 15-day in-patient, 5-day outpatient, 15-day in-patient design. During
the in-patient phases, participants took oral THC capsules (0, 10 mg) five
times/day, 1 h prior to smoking marijuana (0.00, 3.04% THC). Active and
placebo marijuana were smoked on in-patient days 1-8, while only placebo
marijuana was smoked on days 9-14, that is, marijuana abstinence. Placebo
THC was administered each day, except during one of the abstinence phases
(days 9-14), when active THC was given. Mood, psychomotor task
performance, food intake, and sleep were measured. Oral THC administered
during marijuana abstinence decreased ratings of ‘anxious’, ‘miserable’,
‘trouble sleeping’, ‘chills’, and marijuana craving, and reversed large
decreases in food intake as compared to placebo, while producing no
intoxication. Study 2 was a 58-day, outpatient/in-patient design.
Participants were maintained on each divalproex dose (0, 1500 mg/day) for
29 days each. Each maintenance condition began with a 14-day outpatient
phase for medication induction or clearance and continued with a 15-day
in-patient phase. Divalproex decreased marijuana craving during
abstinence, yet increased ratings of ‘anxious’, ‘irritable’, ‘bad effect’,
and ‘tired.’ Divalproex worsened performance on psychomotor tasks, and
increased food intake regardless of marijuana condition. Thus, oral THC
decreased marijuana craving and withdrawal symptoms at a dose that was
subjectively indistinguishable from placebo. Divalproex worsened mood and
cognitive performance during marijuana abstinence. These data suggest that
oral THC, but not divalproex, may be useful in the treatment of marijuana
dependence.

The time course and significance of cannabis withdrawal.

Budney AJ, Moore BA, Vandrey RG, Hughes JR.

Department of Psychiatry, University of Vermont, South Burlington 05403,
USA. abudney@zoo.uvm.edu

Withdrawal symptoms following cessation of heavy cannabis (marijuana) use
have been reported, yet their time course and clinical importance have not
been established. A 50-day outpatient study assessed 18 marijuana users
during a 5-day smoking-as-usual phase followed by a 45-day abstinence
phase. Parallel assessment of 12 ex-users was obtained. A withdrawal
pattern was observed for aggression, anger, anxiety, decreased appetite,
decreased body weight, irritability, restlessness, shakiness, sleep
problems, and stomach pain. Onset typically occurred between Days 1-3,
peak effects between Days 2-6, and most effects lasted 4-14 days. The
magnitude and time course of these effects appeared comparable to tobacco
and other withdrawal syndromes. These effects likely contribute to the
development of dependence and difficulty stopping use. Criteria for
cannabis withdrawal are proposed.

A review of the published literature into cannabis withdrawal symptoms in
human users.

Smith NT.

Addictions Directorate, South London and Maudsley NHS Trust, Marina House,
63-65 Denmark Hill, London SE5 8RS, UK.

Recent experimental papers have been published suggesting the appearance
of withdrawal symptoms upon the cessation of cannabis use in human users
and proposing the introduction of a diagnostic category for such symptoms.
Research also continues to be published into the physiological effects of
cannabis on animals via self-administration paradigms and the use of
cannabinoid antagonists. Animal research does not provide a clear picture
of a consistent withdrawal effect. The literature on withdrawal symptoms
appearing in human users following the cessation of cannabis is
investigated in this paper to clarify this issue further and enhance the
scientific and lay debate on the status of the drug. Methodological
weaknesses in the literature are highlighted. These include variable
levels of drug-dose administered in laboratory conditions, lack of
controlled studies and the absence of definitions of the withdrawal
syndrome sought. It is suggested that the studies conducted to date do not
provide a strong evidence base for the drawing of any conclusions as to
the existence of a cannabis withdrawal syndrome in human users, or as to
the cause of symptoms reported by those abstaining from the drug. On the
basis of current research cannabis cannot be said to provide as clear a
withdrawal pattern as other drugs of abuse, such as opiates. However,
cannabis also highlights the need for a further defining of withdrawal, in
particular the position that rebound effects occupy in this phenomenon. It
is concluded that more controlled research might uncover a diagnosable
withdrawal syndrome in human users and that there may be a precedent for
the introduction of a cannabis withdrawal syndrome before the exact root
of it is known.

Abstinence symptoms following smoked marijuana in humans.

Haney M, Ward AS, Comer SD, Foltin RW, Fischman MW.

New York State Psychiatric Institute and Department of Psychiatry, College
of Physicians and Surgeons of Columbia University, NY 10032, USA.
mh235@columbia.edu

Symptoms of withdrawal after oral delta9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC)
administration have been reported, yet little is known about the
development of dependence on smoked marijuana in humans. In a 21-day
residential study, marijuana smokers (n = 12) worked on five psychomotor
tasks during the day (0915-1700 hours), and in the evening engaged in
recreational activities (1700-2330 hours); subjective-effects measures
were completed 10 times/day. Food and beverages were available ad libitum
from 0830 to 2330 hours. Marijuana cigarettes (0.0, 1.8, 3.1% THC) were
smoked at 1000, 1400, 1800, and 2200 hours. Placebo marijuana was
administered on days 1-4 . One of the active marijuana doses was
administered on days 5-8, followed by 4 days of placebo marijuana (days
9-12). The other concentration of active marijuana cigarettes was
administered on days 13-16, followed by 4 days of placebo marijuana (days
17-20); the order in which the high and low THC-concentration marijuana
cigarettes were administered was counter-balanced between groups. Both
active doses of marijuana increased ratings of “High,” and “Good Drug
Effect,” and increased food intake, while decreasing verbal interaction
compared to the placebo baseline (days 1-4). Abstinence from active
marijuana increased ratings such as “Anxious,” “Irritable,” and “Stomach
pain,” and significantly decreased food intake compared to baseline. This
empirical demonstration of withdrawal from smoked marijuana may suggest
that daily marijuana use may be maintained, at least in part, by the
alleviation of abstinence symptoms.

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] (OT) Re: [ibogaine] FAQ’s – Considering Ibogaine
Date: July 21, 2004 at 12:47:47 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I have met you before Jon, I’m sure. This photo rings loud bells, but I
can’t remember where- maybe at the march itself? At Dana’s? Some party or
activist event?
Hmmm.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 12:28 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] FAQ’s – Considering Ibogaine

me too! here I am! Not a virus! lol! Any other ‘brave souls’  out there
that
will share picture?

eheh… sure…

here’s a pic of me playing at the million marijuana march last spring =)

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] pot withdrawals? LOL!
Date: July 21, 2004 at 12:46:47 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’ve never heard of people (non-medical users) who use then stop marijuana
exerience minor aches and/or pains, can you point me in the right direction
on research or experience with that?  Is is a full body ache or specific
part.<

M