Ibogaine List Archives – 2005-01

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Seany baby
Date: January 31, 2005 at 11:31:39 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sean, waddup dog? I’ve missed you too, are you going to the Ibogaine
conference? I hope to see ya there.          Randy

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From: shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vision problems/solutions post-Ibo
Date: January 31, 2005 at 11:31:12 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi all ,i just wanted to add that ive had 3 iboga sessions & am taking off my lifetime glasses alot !! For months & months now,still use tthem for far vision but not much for close ,like right now!!YES!-shell

Jasen Chamoun <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
Hey Martee,

I find my vision and all my other senses still tuning in.
For about 2 to 3 weeks after my treatment I also
experienced my eyes bluring.

love,
Jasen.
—– Original Message —–
From: “m.finman”
To:
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 1:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vision problems/solutions post-Ibo

> Howard,
> I believe I did the ibogaine HCL. I was treated in that wave last
> summer. Bone density test had definitley crossed my mind. Maybe an eye
> exam as well. I am still reading ok with the same reading perscription I
> got a couple of years ago, however without them I am seeing less small
> print than I used to. This large print appears blurry to me without the
> reading glasses. On the other hand my far sight is still really sharp. I
> actually have a few theories of my own and will be delighted if any of
> them pan out. Thank you so much for your response. Any and all info is
> appreciated.
> Martee
> —– Original Message —–
> From:
> To:
> Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 1:30 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vision problems/solutions post-Ibo
>
>
>> Hi Martee,
>>
>> What form of iboga/ibogaine did you and your brother use? Possibly your
>> vision, like other aspects of your physiology had just deteriorated.
>> Possibly,
>> opiates constricting your pupils allowed greater depth of field and once
>> that
>> effect of the opioids was gone well, glasses were next. I know of one
>> person
>> who wore glasses since a youth and was able to give them up for twenty
>> years
>> post ibogaine. But, then that doesn’t make sense with your brother since
>> his
>> vision returned to “normal” some weeks later. I hadn’t heard of such an
>> effect
>> previously from ibogaine as deteriorated vision.
>>
>> As for bones you might want to have a bone densitometry test to see what
>> state they are in.
>>
>> Howard
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 1/31/05 12:14:55 PM, mafinman@optonline.net writes:
>>
>> << Julie and all,
>>
>> The vision thing is a big issue with me. Unlike yourself I didn’t
>>
>> require reading glasses until 10 years ago,( by then many years into
>> using)
>>
>> however after the ibo I noticed my reading vision has deteriorated. The
>>
>> other day I had to ask my young nephew to read my fortune from the
>> fortune
>>
>> cookie. To me it looked like a solid line. He swore to me it said “today
>> is
>>
>> a good day to buy a present for someone you love !’ Anyway, this vision
>>
>> thing is one of the main reasons I am hesitant to try another session.
>> Parts
>>
>> of me desperately would like to do it again and then the other part wants
>> to
>>
>> watch and see the natural progression of coming off and out from under
>> the
>>
>> effects of having taking ibogaine/being on methedone and heroin for over
>> 20
>>
>> years. My brother-in-law had fuzzy vision for a good 2-3 weeks after his
>>
>> session.
>>
>> The sleeping thing: I’m coming up on six months out and for me
>>
>> about 6 weeks ago when I got my treadmill and starting using it really
>>
>> regularly is when I started to sleep through the night. About 10 days
>> ago I
>>
>> wacked out my left knee on the treadmill from either too much incline
>> work
>>
>> or enthusiasm. The mind was willing. I have to learn that moderation
>> thing
>>
>> people keep telling me about. Since I have been laying off the treadmill
>> I
>>
>> have been waking up after 5- hours sleep, awake for 1-2 hours and then
>>
>> resuming for another 2 hours.
>>
>> Another thing for me to consider, since my right elbow seems to be
>>
>> creaking a bit as well is this me just now noticing damage and aches and
>>
>> pains from all those years of methedone (which as Preston pointed out was
>> an
>>
>> amazing pain killer). You know how all the oldtimers on the programs are
>>
>> walking with canes. While I did a lot of damage control at times, with my
>>
>> diet, I feel a lot of those brittle bones form methedone can be partly
>> from
>>
>> malnutrition.
>>
>> The thing you also mentioned about dreams and memories, I’m
>> also
>>
>> feeling like I am clearing a lot of old memories and past life stuff
>> that’s
>>
>> been a thorn in my side thanks to the iboga.
>>
>> I’d like to wait a while to see if there really is a such thing as
>>
>> “normal”.
>>
>> So I’m just real curious what’s coming next as far as the
>> progression
>>
>> goes without complicating it with coming off of another session.
>>
>> Although…. >>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
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>
>
>

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To Preston
Date: January 31, 2005 at 11:10:01 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yea , I wouldn’t miss this for nuthin’. I think it ought to be real
interesting to say the least. Maybe we can  expand our mind or something. Who is doing
the sound? I’m really looking forward to the conference.       Randy

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vision problems/solutions post-Ibo
Date: January 31, 2005 at 10:40:27 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Martee,

I find my vision and all my other senses still tuning in.
For about 2 to 3 weeks after my treatment I also
experienced my eyes bluring.

love,
Jasen.
—– Original Message —– From: “m.finman” <mafinman@optonline.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 1:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vision problems/solutions post-Ibo

Howard,
I believe I did the ibogaine HCL.  I was treated in that  wave last summer.  Bone density test had definitley crossed my mind.  Maybe an eye exam as well.  I am still reading ok with the same reading perscription I got a couple of years ago, however without them I am seeing less small print than I used to.  This large print appears blurry to me without the reading glasses.  On the other hand my far sight is still really sharp. I actually have a few theories of my own and will be delighted if any of them pan out. Thank you so much for your response.  Any and all info is appreciated.
Martee
—– Original Message —– From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 1:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vision problems/solutions post-Ibo

Hi Martee,

What form of iboga/ibogaine did you and your brother use?  Possibly your
vision, like other aspects of your physiology had just deteriorated. Possibly,
opiates constricting your pupils allowed greater depth of field and once that
effect of the opioids was gone well, glasses were next.  I know of one person
who wore glasses since a youth and was able to give them up for twenty years
post ibogaine.  But, then that doesn’t make sense with your brother since his
vision returned to “normal” some weeks later.  I hadn’t heard of such an effect
previously from ibogaine as deteriorated vision.

As for bones you might want to have a bone densitometry test to see what
state they are in.

Howard

In a message dated 1/31/05 12:14:55 PM, mafinman@optonline.net writes:

<< Julie and all,

The vision thing is a big issue with me.  Unlike yourself I didn’t

require reading glasses until 10 years ago,( by then many years into using)

however after the ibo I noticed my reading vision has deteriorated. The

other day I had to ask my young nephew to read my fortune from the fortune

cookie. To me it looked like a solid line.  He swore to me it said “today is

a good day to buy a present for someone you love !’  Anyway, this vision

thing is one of the main reasons I am hesitant to try another session. Parts

of me desperately would like to do it again and then the other part wants to

watch and see the natural progression of coming off and out from under the

effects of having taking ibogaine/being on methedone and heroin for over 20

years.  My brother-in-law had fuzzy vision for a good 2-3 weeks after his

session.

The sleeping thing:  I’m coming up on six months out and for me

about 6 weeks ago when I got my treadmill and starting using it really

regularly is when I started to sleep through the night.  About 10 days ago I

wacked out my left knee on the treadmill from either too much incline work

or enthusiasm.  The mind was willing. I have to learn that moderation thing

people keep telling me about. Since I have been laying off the treadmill I

have been waking up after 5- hours sleep, awake for 1-2 hours and then

resuming for another 2 hours.

Another thing for me to consider, since my right elbow seems to be

creaking a bit as well is this me just now noticing damage and aches and

pains from all those years of methedone (which as Preston pointed out was an

amazing pain killer). You know how all the oldtimers on the programs are

walking with canes. While I did a lot of damage control at times, with my

diet, I feel a lot of those brittle bones form methedone can be  partly from

malnutrition.

The thing you also mentioned about dreams and memories,  I’m also

feeling like I am clearing a lot of old memories and  past life stuff that’s

been a thorn in my side thanks to the iboga.

I’d like to wait a while to see if there really is a such thing as

“normal”.

So I’m just real curious what’s coming next as far as the progression

goes without complicating it with coming off of another session.

Although…. >>

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From: “m.finman” <mafinman@optonline.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vision problems/solutions post-Ibo
Date: January 31, 2005 at 10:02:04 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Howard,
I believe I did the ibogaine HCL.  I was treated in that  wave last summer.  Bone density test had definitley crossed my mind.  Maybe an eye exam as well.  I am still reading ok with the same reading perscription I got a couple of years ago, however without them I am seeing less small print than I used to.  This large print appears blurry to me without the reading glasses.  On the other hand my far sight is still really sharp. I actually have a few theories of my own and will be delighted if any of them pan out. Thank you so much for your response.  Any and all info is appreciated.
Martee
—– Original Message —– From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 1:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vision problems/solutions post-Ibo

Hi Martee,

What form of iboga/ibogaine did you and your brother use?  Possibly your
vision, like other aspects of your physiology had just deteriorated. Possibly,
opiates constricting your pupils allowed greater depth of field and once that
effect of the opioids was gone well, glasses were next.  I know of one person
who wore glasses since a youth and was able to give them up for twenty years
post ibogaine.  But, then that doesn’t make sense with your brother since his
vision returned to “normal” some weeks later.  I hadn’t heard of such an effect
previously from ibogaine as deteriorated vision.

As for bones you might want to have a bone densitometry test to see what
state they are in.

Howard

In a message dated 1/31/05 12:14:55 PM, mafinman@optonline.net writes:

<< Julie and all,

The vision thing is a big issue with me.  Unlike yourself I didn’t

require reading glasses until 10 years ago,( by then many years into using)

however after the ibo I noticed my reading vision has deteriorated. The

other day I had to ask my young nephew to read my fortune from the fortune

cookie. To me it looked like a solid line.  He swore to me it said “today is

a good day to buy a present for someone you love !’  Anyway, this vision

thing is one of the main reasons I am hesitant to try another session. Parts

of me desperately would like to do it again and then the other part wants to

watch and see the natural progression of coming off and out from under the

effects of having taking ibogaine/being on methedone and heroin for over 20

years.  My brother-in-law had fuzzy vision for a good 2-3 weeks after his

session.

The sleeping thing:  I’m coming up on six months out and for me

about 6 weeks ago when I got my treadmill and starting using it really

regularly is when I started to sleep through the night.  About 10 days ago I

wacked out my left knee on the treadmill from either too much incline work

or enthusiasm.  The mind was willing. I have to learn that moderation thing

people keep telling me about. Since I have been laying off the treadmill I

have been waking up after 5- hours sleep, awake for 1-2 hours and then

resuming for another 2 hours.

Another thing for me to consider, since my right elbow seems to be

creaking a bit as well is this me just now noticing damage and aches and

pains from all those years of methedone (which as Preston pointed out was an

amazing pain killer). You know how all the oldtimers on the programs are

walking with canes. While I did a lot of damage control at times, with my

diet, I feel a lot of those brittle bones form methedone can be  partly from

malnutrition.

The thing you also mentioned about dreams and memories,  I’m also

feeling like I am clearing a lot of old memories and  past life stuff that’s

been a thorn in my side thanks to the iboga.

I’d like to wait a while to see if there really is a such thing as

“normal”.

So I’m just real curious what’s coming next as far as the progression

goes without complicating it with coming off of another session.

Although…. >>

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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Seany baby
Date: January 31, 2005 at 9:44:20 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jasen,

Right back at ya baby!

Sean

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Seany baby
Date: January 31, 2005 at 9:36:15 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Sean

Hey, it’s good to hear from you,I have missed you.

with love Jasen.
—– Original Message —–
From: UUSEAN@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 11:48 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism:Nick (long)

In a message dated 1/27/05 8:57:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, jfreed1@umbc.edu writes:

saying that government should coerce people into “positive” change in
their lives IS periously close to what the nazis did to the jews, gypsies,
homosexuals, disabled, and other undesirables of their time

Hey list,

Queer junkie with AIDS here.  This thread I must say first has been a blast. Haven’t seen this much fire on this list in a good while.  Wild enough that it brought me out of lurking!

I feel I must throw my two cents in here for harm reduction. Personally, ibogaine was one of the finest moves I have ever made from a harm reduction prospective. When I joined this list, I had a raving crack addiction and a growing dope addiction.  Four months later I actually got ibogaine treatment. Kind of amazing really.

At the time, I had just started work with a harm reduction therapist. For the first time I felt that my choice to use or not use was largely in my power. I gave up on the drug is a drug is a drug attitude of NA, and smoked a hell of a lot of weed after ibogaine treatment.  My crack use became minimal, and remains so. I am no longer powerless over crack cocaine. Alleluia!

Underlying psychic pain remained with me however, and my heroin use grew. I found dope much more manageable than crack. I have gone back to work full time. I am paying off debts.

Meanwhile, I have struggled with success to keep my dope use to a happy medium. I am not physically addicted, and am working in therapy to free myself from the dirty diesel as well.

But on my terms.  On my timetable. I have largely cut loose from life 12 steppers of any stripe, prohibitionists, and any other well meaning type who gets high off of “helping” me.  I am educating myself in harm reduction.  I am empowered. I use dope. I am moving toward quitting dope.  All on my terms.

When I discovered ibogaine, I had no idea this is where my life would go. Perhaps my empowerment began with the ability to choose ibogaine in the first place. Not the cops, a lover, family….my choice.  I did agree to aftercare, which was not really so hard since I was already working a fine harm reduction therapist in NYC.

Finally, I am no rush to use ibogaine again.  I am not physically addicted at this time, and see no point it really.  I am open-minded to another treatment down the line, however. I am not turned off by the insistence of providers of ibogaine that aftercare be sought.  As long as I have full say in the type of aftercare.  If one does have a problem with the aftercare “rule” , well, we are dealing with a schedule one in the US, so providers in the US are sadly put in the role of dealers. You want their serve, you at least pay lip service to their rules.  I would rather avoid ibogaine at this point. Instead, I am putting my energy toward working under the bigger umbrella of harm reduction, and work toward the legalization of ibogaine.

Anyway, nice to be back on the list.  And thanks for this thread.

Peace,
Sean

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Donna
Date: January 31, 2005 at 9:32:38 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Donna,

Your friend has to go,..she is no friend if she is stopping you from doing what you choose.
Hey,..I’ll be your mate.   ( mate in Australia means friend)

I did the treatment from 60mg of methadone,…even though life really does rock,and
all is good,..in hindsight, I would have come off a shorter working opiate.

Are you on the Methadone? If you are I would go onto something else,..Personally
speaking, before the Ibo’. You will recover a lot quicker.

If you are using heroin and not on the methadone then I would skip straight to the Ibo’.
Donna I will help on or off list whenever you need to ask something and if I can answer
your question I will.

Stairway to heaven just came on and I got goose bumps.

I felt your desperation in your last email and I know,..it is f*cked,..your almost there
,..keep pushing on. “I will persist until I succeed”(Dale Carnegie)

Before my treatment, I was at my wit’s end, I was beginning to lose all interest in
everything, I felt hopeless,..an emotional mess, I just wanted to go back home,..
be rid of all the anguish,..the pain,..judgement,…it was to much for a person
to bear,..even to much for a bear to bear,..utter hoplessnes.

Then I found this great list,..Sara and Ibo’.    WOW!

Hey,..let me tell you life is now wondrous,..most of the pain is gone no more
heavy burdens stuck to me like super glue.When I say “wondrous” life still
has it’s ups and downs of course,..things happen that I do not like, and things
I do like. life still has it’s challenges that’s for sure.

Life is wondrous because I am freeeeeeee,..I am lighter,..more confidence, my
shackles are gone, this is why it is wondrous.

I just blew some wind into your sails,..the ship is on course,..your crew is hungry
you will eat soon and leave your unwanted goods at the dock before sailing away again
free, light, full and happy.

What country are you in again,..Australia?

with love,
Jasen.
—– Original Message —–
From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 5:40 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]

Hi Nick

Me again I just wanted to say sorry again, I could really do with some advice from you or any one else on the list, I have a choice self administer ibogaine which someone who is really experienced has told me its not out of the question and really comes down to the individual ,(would you agree with that?) or do the subutex and then the ibogaine which another person who is really experienced in ibo treatment has said this is probably the best solution to my problem.  I really dont know what to do, Nick I feel awful and I can not appologise enough this so called mate of mine does not want me to get clean because she does not want to, and after this I am really wondering why I am mates at all.
love donna

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Francis and Nick
Date: January 31, 2005 at 9:06:42 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Nick,

Perhaps you never read the intro to this fine list, but the only rule is don’t be an asshole.  Actually excuses to use heroin are quite welcome here. So is the delete button if you don’t like that.  If one can type with a rig in their arm and a crackpipe in their mouth, they are welcome here. Long as they don’t act like an asshole.

EXCUSES TO USE HEROIN:

1 It feels good.

2 I like dope.

Sorry, couldn’t help myself.:)

Cheers!
Sean

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]
Date: January 31, 2005 at 8:51:09 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

*Hey Randy,

*Life sure does rock.
*I just turned it up.

*  love ya work mate.
*  Jasen
Ibogaine is
not anything to be taken lightly. Life ROCKS turn it up.         Randy

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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism:Nick (long)
Date: January 31, 2005 at 8:48:48 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 1/27/05 8:57:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, jfreed1@umbc.edu writes:

saying that government should coerce people into “positive” change in
their lives IS periously close to what the nazis did to the jews, gypsies,
homosexuals, disabled, and other undesirables of their time

Hey list,

Queer junkie with AIDS here.  This thread I must say first has been a blast. Haven’t seen this much fire on this list in a good while.  Wild enough that it brought me out of lurking!

I feel I must throw my two cents in here for harm reduction. Personally, ibogaine was one of the finest moves I have ever made from a harm reduction prospective. When I joined this list, I had a raving crack addiction and a growing dope addiction.  Four months later I actually got ibogaine treatment. Kind of amazing really.

At the time, I had just started work with a harm reduction therapist. For the first time I felt that my choice to use or not use was largely in my power. I gave up on the drug is a drug is a drug attitude of NA, and smoked a hell of a lot of weed after ibogaine treatment.  My crack use became minimal, and remains so. I am no longer powerless over crack cocaine. Alleluia!

Underlying psychic pain remained with me however, and my heroin use grew. I found dope much more manageable than crack. I have gone back to work full time. I am paying off debts.

Meanwhile, I have struggled with success to keep my dope use to a happy medium. I am not physically addicted, and am working in therapy to free myself from the dirty diesel as well.

But on my terms.  On my timetable. I have largely cut loose from life 12 steppers of any stripe, prohibitionists, and any other well meaning type who gets high off of “helping” me.  I am educating myself in harm reduction.  I am empowered. I use dope. I am moving toward quitting dope.  All on my terms.

When I discovered ibogaine, I had no idea this is where my life would go. Perhaps my empowerment began with the ability to choose ibogaine in the first place. Not the cops, a lover, family….my choice.  I did agree to aftercare, which was not really so hard since I was already working a fine harm reduction therapist in NYC.

Finally, I am no rush to use ibogaine again.  I am not physically addicted at this time, and see no point it really.  I am open-minded to another treatment down the line, however. I am not turned off by the insistence of providers of ibogaine that aftercare be sought.  As long as I have full say in the type of aftercare.  If one does have a problem with the aftercare “rule” , well, we are dealing with a schedule one in the US, so providers in the US are sadly put in the role of dealers. You want their serve, you at least pay lip service to their rules.  I would rather avoid ibogaine at this point. Instead, I am putting my energy toward working under the bigger umbrella of harm reduction, and work toward the legalization of ibogaine.

Anyway, nice to be back on the list.  And thanks for this thread.

Peace,
Sean

From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To Randy
Date: January 31, 2005 at 7:19:19 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi randy 🙂
Don’t worry, you didn’t offend me. It just an exchange of point
of view.
I was wrong to write something about your friend in New York.
God bless
Francis
—– Original Message —–
From: <BiscuitBoy714@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 4:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To Randy

What I don’t like about your list of tools is the sacastic shots you made
at
my friends in New York City. If I have offended you, I appoligize. I guess
you
have no sence of humor, one of those you can dish it out but not take it
guys. You started the sarcastic remarks, not me.         Randy

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]-Provider question: Free will vs. Addiction(OT)
Date: January 31, 2005 at 6:43:41 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

It is Dis ease,..illness and  a  tool,..

IMHO.

love
Jasen.  🙂
—– Original Message —–
From: Nick Sandberg
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 9:33 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]-Provider question: Free will vs. Addiction(OT)

In my opinion it’s neither! Just a temporary learning tool.

Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: Jasen Chamoun [mailto:jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au]
Sent: 31 January 2005 04:25
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]-Provider question: Free will vs. Addiction(OT)

In my opinion,..it is both.

love
Jasen.
—– Original Message —–
From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 6:04 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]-Provider question: Free will vs. Addiction(OT)

In a message dated 30/01/2005 19:51:42 GMT Standard Time, rwd3@cox.net writes:
Central question:   Is addiction a disease or illness that providers hope to
treat?

Interested in what you guys think????????????????

From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Fw: [Ibogaine]-Provider question: Free will vs. Addiction(OT)
Date: January 31, 2005 at 6:23:29 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– >
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 1:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]-Provider question: Free will vs. Addiction(OT)

this is off topic but may be relevant to some of the recent exchanges: it has nothing to do w/ ibo
the tools to segregate junkies from the rest of society are being perfected in the criminal justice system.  many states have enacted quasi criminal sanctions to sexual predators so that when they finish serving their sentence,  they are evaluated by a group of shrinks who have trouble getting a practice started elsewhere who in turn determine whether the offender is likely to offend again or fit to return to society.  if not fit,  the offender gets an extended stay in a “special” hospital for an indefinite period of time. once or if released,  the offender then must account for every move he or she makes,  many having to wear gps monitors. bootstrap that with the anti terrorist laws and tools for law enforcement and there is an excellent blueprint for expanding the classes to fit into this model.  i don’t condone sexual predators or pedophiles but i have seen many a young adult get caught in this web for sexual conduct that was not even frowned upon a few decades ago.( e.g. 20 yr. old male having sex w/ 17 yr. old unmarried female w/o parental consent.). these offenders are marked, registered, and tracked relentlessly for the rest of their lives. many feel as though druggies are bad news, and some are,  that undermine our culture and harm others. easy to keep an eye on them with this method, so everyone feels safe.  we all know that users lack compassion for his neighbor and would do anything for his/her next fix.  it would be nice to eliminate this threat from our communities. food for thought on an idle sunday. no personal opinion expressed.ron—– Original Message —– From: “tomo7” <tomo7@starband.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 2:48 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine]-Provider question: Free will vs. Addiction

Hi Team Mindvox:

I’ve enjoyed the concepts lately squeezed from Preston and Nick’s snarly
differences over libertarian defenses of junkie lifestyle choices.  Both are
great writers and probably lovely people. Do the providers have input on Ibo
as treatment for addiction to help return users to “health”, versus Ibo as
cool tool to help user down regulate freely chosen opiates as pain meds? I
can see Preston’s point about “nobody gonna mess with my choice to use
because I’m free” (sorry for abbreviated words in mouth, here), and I can
see Nick’s provocative fascist wake-up call to pull the covers off all the
self medicated sleepy minions of Morphia. That side sounds pretty wicked and
unpleasant, images of cops and home invasions roll out over network TV all
the time. The free will junkie lifestyle isn’t exactly a picnic however.

The issue of addiction versus free will gets right to the central vein
(sorry, just had to..) of Ibogaine use. I like the practice of providing
this tool to people who want out of their addiction, and it seems unique and
powerful in it’s value for that. Do you providers take on clients who are
not really looking for a way out of addiction? Maybe the mom or girlfriend
are ragging on people but, naw, they really just like that dope..”

Speaking only for myself, I can’t see why it would be worth my time and
energy to help the junkie have a better commercial relationship to his
chosen pursuits. Yes, I bet Ibo would help a lot if used for that, but it
would feel like such a wasted tool for liberation…OK, help the opiate feel
better for a while, yawn, whatever…

Central question:   Is addiction a disease or illness that providers hope to
treat?  Or is free will use of great pain killers and ways to get high some
inherent right my neighborhood and I need to fight to protect? As long as
people aren’t in my face they should do what they want  to pursue and even
catch every happiness they can. No doubt. The Ibo list of PC thought from
Francis was precious. Too true.

Out here west of NYC, where gun control is a 4 inch group at 50 yards with
your one-handed pistol shot, the idea of a junkie’s rights to use gets a
little abstract. My libertarian beliefs are ok, but when the drug cartel
reps show up at your daughter’s high school prom, some of us get nervous and
tend to reach for something meaner than a good fence purchase. Dirty Harry
sold a lot of movies with the retribution schtick.

As for all the civil liberty issues brought out in the War on Drugs info,
there sure is a lot of sudden surprise and focus on the”dirty laundry” side
of the drug user “lifestyle”.  Dirt sells, for sure, but isn’t it all
getting hard to be shocked and amazed for you grownups that addiction sucks?
Over 500 years since the Spanish Christian monarchs sent Columbus off to
eliminate everyone non Spanish and Christian to generate revenue, and the
war has been pretty world wide and constant for your mind, spirit, and soul
ever since. Addiction has been a favorite controller tool for a long time.

I don’t know the experience of opiate addiction, thankfully, and no, I’ll
pass on those mashed potatoes too.  For the proud, freethinker junkies and
tweekers among us, does the free will model work for addiction or is there a
treatable illness there that loved ones might want to intervene with? When
do your decisions start to forfeit your claim to civil rights? Let me know.
Never mind the character jabs at me for asking, just come from your own
knowledge. As for the social critique of unaware drug policies, this war on
the drug user is just the sneak preview for what’s coming at us in Century
21, IMHO. Get clean, wake up, or don’t. Your choice. In the bright future
there will be a lot of available parking places, methinks.

I’m gone, thanks for reading.

Dr. Tom

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To Randy
Date: January 31, 2005 at 5:28:20 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hey, and come to think of it, I kinda sorta resembled one of them there sarcastic comments, no?
;-))
Yer gonna be in the Apple in February, at COSM, right Randy?

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Mysterious Roots- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Explorations and Enigmas” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: <BiscuitBoy714@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 4:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To Randy

What I don’t like about your list of tools is the sacastic shots you made at
my friends in New York City. If I have offended you, I appoligize. I guess you
have no sence of humor, one of those you can dish it out but not take it
guys. You started the sarcastic remarks, not me.         Randy

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]-Free will vs. Addiction:reply,re-query
Date: January 31, 2005 at 5:03:33 PM EST
To: tomo7@starband.net, ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dr. Tom, I think Ibo should be legal but with restrictions. In my personal
opinion no one should ever take it without a trained provider with them. I’m
with Howard on his fantasy hospital. Ibogaine is powerful stuff, so is Heroin,
people do what they have to do. I’d like to see Ibogaine available to those who
want it. Think about it, Ibogaine treatments would be cheaper in the long run
than what they are doing in hospitals now. AND it will work better.
Randy

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To Randy
Date: January 31, 2005 at 4:43:14 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

What I don’t like about your list of tools is the sacastic shots you made at
my friends in New York City. If I have offended you, I appoligize. I guess you
have no sence of humor, one of those you can dish it out but not take it
guys. You started the sarcastic remarks, not me.         Randy

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vision problems/solutions post-Ibo
Date: January 31, 2005 at 1:30:05 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Martee,

What form of iboga/ibogaine did you and your brother use?  Possibly your
vision, like other aspects of your physiology had just deteriorated.  Possibly,
opiates constricting your pupils allowed greater depth of field and once that
effect of the opioids was gone well, glasses were next.  I know of one person
who wore glasses since a youth and was able to give them up for twenty years
post ibogaine.  But, then that doesn’t make sense with your brother since his
vision returned to “normal” some weeks later.  I hadn’t heard of such an effect
previously from ibogaine as deteriorated vision.

As for bones you might want to have a bone densitometry test to see what
state they are in.

Howard

In a message dated 1/31/05 12:14:55 PM, mafinman@optonline.net writes:

<< Julie and all,

The vision thing is a big issue with me.  Unlike yourself I didn’t

require reading glasses until 10 years ago,( by then many years into using)

however after the ibo I noticed my reading vision has deteriorated. The

other day I had to ask my young nephew to read my fortune from the fortune

cookie. To me it looked like a solid line.  He swore to me it said “today is

a good day to buy a present for someone you love !’  Anyway, this vision

thing is one of the main reasons I am hesitant to try another session. Parts

of me desperately would like to do it again and then the other part wants to

watch and see the natural progression of coming off and out from under the

effects of having taking ibogaine/being on methedone and heroin for over 20

years.  My brother-in-law had fuzzy vision for a good 2-3 weeks after his

session.

The sleeping thing:  I’m coming up on six months out and for me

about 6 weeks ago when I got my treadmill and starting using it really

regularly is when I started to sleep through the night.  About 10 days ago I

wacked out my left knee on the treadmill from either too much incline work

or enthusiasm.  The mind was willing. I have to learn that moderation thing

people keep telling me about. Since I have been laying off the treadmill I

have been waking up after 5- hours sleep, awake for 1-2 hours and then

resuming for another 2 hours.

Another thing for me to consider, since my right elbow seems to be

creaking a bit as well is this me just now noticing damage and aches and

pains from all those years of methedone (which as Preston pointed out was an

amazing pain killer). You know how all the oldtimers on the programs are

walking with canes. While I did a lot of damage control at times, with my

diet, I feel a lot of those brittle bones form methedone can be  partly from

malnutrition.

The thing you also mentioned about dreams and memories,  I’m also

feeling like I am clearing a lot of old memories and  past life stuff that’s

been a thorn in my side thanks to the iboga.

I’d like to wait a while to see if there really is a such thing as

“normal”.

So I’m just real curious what’s coming next as far as the progression

goes without complicating it with coming off of another session.

Although…. >>

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From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To Randy
Date: January 31, 2005 at 1:09:59 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Randy,

You wrote:
Don’t ever say that I
don’t read the list and imply that you love it more than I do.

# Did I ? This a thought reading, but this thought is infortunately not
mine, could be your eventualy. Obviously you read the list….that do not
imply that you love this list more or less than I do.How much is more, how
much is less to be enought ?

Basicly before you wrote:
Man I have missed some good shit here lately. I wish I had seen Francis’s
list of “How to win friends and influence Junkies” and could have been
current
with my reply.

You wrote now,

Francis, I read your list and I was being sarcastic. Whoa ….. there goes
a
shooting star, that’s way over your head too, aint it?

# Randy, I am confused but I assume that you read my small list of tools .
what you exactly don’t like in my small list 🙂
God bless
Francis

Don’t ever say that I
don’t read the list and imply that you love it more than I do. This list
pulled
me through very tough times, addicted and newly Ibonized too. Matter of
fact
Ibogaine and this list has made my life so full that I don’t have the time
I
used to to read everything on it. Just the ones that catch my attention.
Yours
did. Sorry      Randy

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From: “tomo7″ <tomo7@starband.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine]-Free will vs. Addiction:reply,re-query
Date: January 31, 2005 at 12:41:15 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <BiscuitBoy714@aol.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Randy, and other responders:

Thanks for your thoughtful replies. Honestly, Randy, that gun control is
what I aspire to, but my groups are 6” or more, and a few strays with a
Glock .40, not that target Ruger. More practice helps everything.

I hear your concern about the need for pain relief.  Pain is a complete drag
and I’m sure it pulls many into addiction. I think Opium is the best proof
that God has mercy for suffering humans. As relief in terminal intractable
pain, the morphine drip is merciful release for those clearly not coming
back to health and function before they depart. Pain has purpose and keeps
the healthy immune system targeted on what needs fixing. A good physician,
or a caring friend will always want to help one to stop hurting and repair
the cause of the pain. In practice, the blockade of pain with opiates seems
to block the healing process as well, but even there the Kevorkian call has
plenty of room for free will and medical judgment.

It is sad that Preston suffers, and also we all lose his writing talent if
pain debilitates him. I don’t think Opiates should be unavailable, or
Ibogaine either. And evidently many doctors are normal people too, with high
rates of addiction among themselves. Your view about better training is
right on point.  We should have some advising board at the medical schools
that can require sensible knowledge about opiate use, before the wound up
new doc is let loose on the public. Most also agree that the current
murderous status quo suits the beneficiaries of that profit stream just
fine. Social change won’t be driven by it’s victims any time soon. Medical
education has been owned and directed by and for the same profiteers from
this war on drug users, for a long damn time.

The opiate doesn’t heal the pain or it wouldn’t re-appear when the opiate
wears off.  Opiates are temporary relief from the feeling of pain.  For the
mindvox record, I don’t judge anyone for doing anything in reach to lessen
their pain,  and, I don’t begrudge anyone the right to take a drug because
they want to just get high and feel good. I hope to hear of their success.
My flirtation was with Lady Cannabis, over the years, back when I had sparky
adrenals, but I’m still partial to the concept.

So, while I sympathize with Preston’s Skag Swat Team solution, for certain
high profile war criminals and corrupt public servants, complete with a few
rapid detox sessions for the sheer poetry of it, I rather sympathize with
every society’s efforts to protect community health and safety. I heard Nick
being about there with his original ‘druthers’ too. If they just weren’t
arming the wolves to protect the sheep, drug laws could be useful.

People should do what they want with their own life and choices, and get
with cause and effect. Jason’s analogy of love and force as oil and water
was nice. Sara’s clarity on “tuff love” works for me too, having seen
forceful interventions
save lives and families. Your sentence, “To me, Ibogaine is about
the choices it gives you and the best route out of addiction that I
personally
know of”, just about nails it.

As I endorse treating addiction with I., it doesn’t follow that I oppose
pain medication with Opiates. Re-read that, please. Up until someone messes
with me or endangers my family, the benefit of the doubt goes to whoever
wants to pursue their truth, however, whenever.

Drugs are great, sometimes, if they aren’t dosed with ignorance, greed,
fear, and delusion. But here we are in America, where they usually are,
whether legal or not. It’s not like it’s a “free country” or anything,
unless you’ve been on a Rip Van Winkle nap. Powerful anything..drugs, health
foods, telecommunications, weapons, etc. are all about advantages in the war
on your individuality and light.  I notice that all the “wars d’jour” aren’t
going so well for our side. Sorry if that’s a bit “negative”.

Along comes an unusual plant medicine that actually helps in a desperate
addiction situation (which is profitable and beneficial for the economic
rulers).  Should that medicine merit study and effort at understanding it by
professionals? Or, would the greater good be drug store pez dispensers with
the self medication of Ibo in reach for anyone with a candy bar budget?
Though not a pain killer, it would probably work better at pain control than
many of our common “remedies”, in just not causing  pain and disability,
like the wildly popular NSAIDS.

But, Ibo is just too much damn work to ever pretend at being a party drug.
Very little “abuse potential”, at least for more than once. I don’t know if
I’m enough of an optimistic anarchist to think the public would get that Pez
candy format right. But hey, it wouldn’t be a lot worse than the anti-life
OTC market we have the “freedom” to enjoy right now.

My question is do the providers aim their therapy at addiction when the
patient is ambivalent and holding nearby drugs to re-medicate after the
session?  Reminding the inexperienced, the re-sensitising of O. receptors
that takes place during Ibo sessions can make a formerly OK dose become far
more dangerous. The few deaths reported have been from that scenario, and
undisclosed health problems. Do providers screen their clients medically, or
not? Do you think they should, morally? Or, should the pixilated pez sit
next to the nicotine, alcohol, junk food and Vicodin in your kid’s high
school vending machines?

Shouts to the list people with juice and passion to share here!

Dr. Tom

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com [mailto:BiscuitBoy714@aol.com]
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 8:21 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]-Provider question: Free will vs. Addiction

Dr. Tom, I read your post the other day and didn’t have time to give it the
thought that it deserves, I have time now. First off, I’m not a provider but
I
know a few and I’d like to say something here. LOL I have to see that 4 inch

group offhand at 50 yards. I might be able to get 4 inch groups with a Ruger
Mk
II but with 2 hands and a rest. ‘Nuff’ jokin’, this is serious. This issue
needs to be addressed. When I had my treatment everyone, and I mean everyone

wanted to know about my aftercare and plans for the future to the point that
it
irratated me. Turns out that they were right about therapy by the way.
Nobody
that I know of will treat anyone just to make it easier to get high. This
has
probably been hashed out allready, I haven’t had time to read everthing on
the
list for days now, but I have to say this. Have you ever met Preston? I
have,
and maybe I’m just too sensitive, but I swear I could see the pain in his
face
when he had to move around. Does he or anyone else with as many pain issues
as he has not have the right to try and make his life easier to deal with?
That’s not a decision I would make carte blanch (where the hell is the spell

checker on this thing?) about anyone. Besides if I had my way Ibogaine would
be
legal and this would be a mute point. If I was a provider I would have to
take
all things into consideration on an individual basis. To me, Ibogaine is
about
the choices it gives you and the best route out of addiction that I
personaly
know of. I’ve been addicted off and on since the 70’s to oppiates. This is
the
first time I have felt good about being clean since I shot Morphine when I
was
15 years old. I didn’t really see how it could work for me but I tried
anyway. It worked. How do we know who it will work for and who it won’t?
There is a
screening process and I’d have to say that to the man everyone treated here
of
late in the NYC area truly wanted to get clean. I hope Preston doesn’t mind
me saying this but I would imagine if he could have been clean AND free of
pain
he probably would have loved it. That didn’t happen for him and I wish it
had. Ibogaine is medicine and should be treated that way. Oppiates are
medicine
too, just look at all those ‘scripts that get written for them. Dr.’s give
out
an addictive substance all day long and the government won’t let people who
want out of addiction have the single most effective way of dealing with
that
addiction legaly obtain Ibogaine. That almost seems evil to me. There should
be
Ibogaine information in every Dr.’s office and Methadone clinic in the US.
I’m
covering my end on that, how ’bout you? I’ve said it before and I’ll say it
again, I won’t shut up until every addict that I know of at least knows that

there is another way out. I pay close attention to everything you say and
I’m
glad that you brought this up. When I get back to the Catskills I’m gonna’
work
on my one handed shot.hehehehe        Randy

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From: “” <thethird@myway.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Fw: [DrugWar] Canada: Is Free Heroin Just a Quick Fix?
Date: January 31, 2005 at 12:32:53 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I have been really excited about hearing more about these trials in Canada. It will be interesting to see how it all turns out.

After I read the whole article at the bottom of the email I remembered reading about one woman who had tried rehabs many times, along with group meetings, Methadone M.T., and anything else that could possibly help stop her from using and nothing worked. I’m not sure where she lived but somehow she got involved in a heroin maintenance program and after she had been on it for awhile she talked about how for the first time in her life she had her own apartment, a job, and money in her pocket. She cried about how she wished this could have happened to her sooner (I think she was around 50) so that she could have had more of a life, instead of always being broke and dodging the cops.

In my opinion, heroin maintenance makes more sense. I know that methadone lasts longer, but from experience, I could see how people would still crave heroin while on it. To a lot of people, (most folks in the U.S.) giving heroin to an addict is just another way to keep them down and encourage them to keep using. They just don’t realize or care that some people are going to keep using no matter what, and that heroin maintenance would allow them to have lives that are as productive and fulfilling as possible.

I say this because I think almost everyone has a ‘job’ in life. I don’t mean a 9 – 5 job, but something that is their passion in life, whether it’s writing, or music, or science. Whatever it is, it can get lost when you are on the streets using all your time and energy to stay well. When these people get on the maintenance program, then maybe they will remember or discover what it is that makes their life worthwhile and start doing it again This happened to me with Ibogaine. I remembered all these things that used to inspire me. During my Ibogaine trip the first thing I saw was Einstein, and I couldn’t believe how I had forgotten how much I used to love to learn about physics and how curious I always was, and then all these other things came flooding back to me, like the piano, and going back to school. And now I am starting to do these things again, (I just got a kick ass keyboard with weighted keys and a full range of octaves!!! And I’m going back to school in the summer.Woohoo!!!) It makes such a difference to have all that time and energy back, and I know so fu*%ing many people that would benefit from heroin maintenance for exactly that reason, so I am really interested to see the results of the trial.

If it works out I hope they change their mind about stopping the treatment in a year. It would suck to see how great your life could be and then have it ripped away. It will also be interesting to see how the U.S. reacts to the results, especially if they are positive, because I can’t imagine Washington saying, “hey, that worked out great, lets give it a try.”
Laura

— On Mon 01/31, Preston Peet < ptpeet@nyc.rr.com > wrote:

From: Preston Peet [mailto: ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 09:45:52 -0500
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fw: [DrugWar] Canada: Is Free Heroin Just a Quick Fix?

snip from the article below:

>”Sometimes you need something just to relax and get your mind together,
instead of always being in a state of panic. That’s what’s killing everyone
down here,” she said, pointing to the throngs of bedraggled souls shuffling
along East Hastings Street. Like Ms. Woelke, they must hit the pavement
every day to raise enough cash for their drugs. Most steal. Many women work
as prostitutes.

“They have to do things they wouldn’t normally do.”

This is exactly what some of Canada’s top addiction experts want to find
out when they begin the first heroin prescription trial in North America.

If heroin addicts are freed of their daily chase for drugs, if it is given
to them three times a day like medicine, can they change their lives for
the better?<

This woman has it nailed with her comment about the panic being what’s
killinng all her addict frieds and acquaintances on the streets.
There’s more below. Too awesome. This is what we should be doing, ALONG with
offering addicts ibogaine and methadone and whatever else it may take to get
them to a point where THEY, the ADDICTS- not Nick, or the Court, or Preston
Peet, or the police and judges, or Bill W., or the Bwiti, or whomever it is-
feel they are most happy. Not “they’re a drag,” not they just be integrated
into society along with everyone else, not they must be forced into
participating in life, none of that is a good criteria for action or even
worthy goals IN MY OPINION. The main goals in my mind are to enable each and
every person to live happily as possible to the extent they are not hurting
others while making themselves happy, to reduce as many possible harms to
the addict and the rest of society too without forcing anyone into anything
against their will.
I’m pretty sure that the authorities involved in this effort will notice
a drop in crime on the part of the participant, and even probably a climb in
things like employemnnt and other markers like this.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Mysterious Roots- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Explorations and Enigmas” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Richard Lake”
To:
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 8:20 AM
Subject: [DrugWar] Canada: Is Free Heroin Just a Quick Fix?

> Newshawk: CMAP http://www.mapinc.org/cmap
> Pubdate: Mon, 31 Jan 2005
> Source: Globe and Mail (Canada)
> Page: A1 – Front Page
> Copyright: 2005, The Globe and Mail Company
> Contact: letters@globeandmail.ca
> Website: http://www.globeandmail.ca/
> Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/168
> Author: Jane Armstrong
> Cited: Centre for Addiction and Mental Health http://www.camh.net/
> Cited: Canadian Institutes of Health Research http://www.cihr-irsc.gc.ca/
> Bookmark: http://www.mapinc.org/heroin.htm (Heroin)
> Bookmark: http://www.mapinc.org/find?136 (Methadone)
> Bookmark: http://www.mapinc.org/topics/Downtown+Eastside
>
> IS FREE HEROIN JUST A QUICK FIX?
>
> VANCOUVER — On a warm, rainy Saturday morning, Debbie Woelke stops
> pushing her shopping cart long enough to discuss the pros and cons of a
> plan to give free heroin to drug addicts in Canada’s poorest
> neighbourhood.
>
> The heroin trial is all the talk of Vancouver’s Downtown Eastside and Ms.
> Woelke, 48, thinks it’s a good idea. She might even apply, herself. “They
> should have done this a long time ago,” she said leaning on her cart,
> which contains all her worldly belongings — not groceries.
>
> Like other addicts, Ms. Woelke lives in a bleak rented room in a
> residential hotel. Far better to be outside in the rain, even if it means
> wheeling around your clothes all day.
>
> “Sometimes you need something just to relax and get your mind together,
> instead of always being in a state of panic. That’s what’s killing
> everyone down here,” she said, pointing to the throngs of bedraggled souls
> shuffling along East Hastings Street. Like Ms. Woelke, they must hit the
> pavement every day to raise enough cash for their drugs. Most steal. Many
> women work as prostitutes.
>
> “They have to do things they wouldn’t normally do.”
>
> This is exactly what some of Canada’s top addiction experts want to find
> out when they begin the first heroin prescription trial in North America.
>
> If heroin addicts are freed of their daily chase for drugs, if it is given
> to them three times a day like medicine, can they change their lives for
> the better?
>
> In a couple of weeks, the research team will begin taking applications
> here in Vancouver and later in Toronto and Montreal from addicts who want
> to be part of the study.
>
> Researchers are looking for hard-core addicts, people who have tried and
> failed at least twice to get clean. In the three cities, there are spots
> for 428 addicts, roughly half of whom will receive heroin for a year; the
> other half will receive methadone, an artificial opiate that controls the
> cravings for heroin.
>
> In Vancouver, the trials are causing a stir on the syringe-littered
> streets of the city’s skid row, home to more than 4,000 drug users. Among
> those who deal first hand with these chaotic lives, there’s a feeling that
> Canada is breaking new ground in how it treats the most intractable of
> drug addictions.
>
> Similar studies in the Netherlands and Switzerland have shown positive
> results for addicts.
>
> “What if you could say to an addict, ‘For the next little while, you’re
> not going to have to get your drugs from Al Capone. You can get your drugs
> from Marcus Welby,’ ” said Dr. Martin Schechter, the project’s lead
> researcher.
>
> “You don’t have to worry about this afternoon and this evening. And
> therefore, you don’t have to go and break in to cars or be a prostitute.
> You could actually come and talk to a counsellor or . . . get some skills
> training.”
>
> It’s a landmark study in North America, one that turns its back on
> abstinence as the goal.
>
> But not everyone is thrilled with the prospect of free heroin for
> hard-core addicts. And even supporters have expressed concern about the
> ethics of offering heroin to addicts for a prescribed period of time. Is
> it fair to yank away their heroin at the end of the year?
>
> Addiction experts in Canada have already expressed concerns about the risk
> of overdoses.
>
> Last December, two staff physicians at Toronto’s Centre for Addiction and
> Mental Health wrote scathing critiques to the ethics adviser of the
> Canadian Institutes of Health Research, the agency funding the study.
>
> Vancouver physician Stanley deVlaming is worried the trials are designed
> to garner positive results. In Vancouver, 88 subjects are to receive
> heroin, while 70 will receive methadone, the heroin substitute.
>
> “How meaningful will it be to compare the group of 88 elated subjects that
> win the heroin lottery to the group of 70 who were also desperately trying
> to get the free heroin, but lost the luck of the draw?” asked Dr.
> deVlaming, who has treated addicts in the Downtown Eastside for more than
> a dozen years.
>
> “The first group would likely be very motivated to give the researchers
> positive results, while the second disappointed and disgruntled group
> randomized to methadone would be much less motivated.”
>
> As expected, the plan has rankled U.S. drug officials, specifically the
> office of White House drug czar John Walters, where an official called it
> an unethical and “inhumane medical experiment.”
>
> Offering free heroin to addicts when there are proven treatments for
> addiction can’t be justified if the addict’s desire is to get off drugs,
> policy analyst David Murray s aid.
>
> “What you’re doing is making it easier to be a heroin addict,” he said
> from Washington. “These people won’t get that much better in the long run.
> They will still be heroin addicts.”
>
> Washington’s disapproval was expected and hasn’t deterred Ottawa from
> funding the study. The Canadian Institutes of Health Research has
> committed $8.1-million for the trials.
>
> In Vancouver, the plan has the support of top politicians and law
> enforcers, including the mayor and the police chief.
>
> Mayor Larry Campbell, who was once a coroner and drug cop, said the trials
> are needed because current treatments aren’t working for hard-core
> addicts.
>
> “The critical thing is to accept this as a medical condition,” Mr.
> Campbell said.
>
> “The side effects of this medical condition is that it forces you to . . .
> do things that you would never do, be it work as a sex-trade worker, be a
> B and E [break-and-enter] artist or a purse snatcher. So if I can mitigate
> that by putting you on heroin, imagine the changes you could have.”
>
> Right now, the trial is waiting for Health Canada to grant the necessary
> exemption form the Canadian Narcotics Act.
>
> Ms. Woelke said she plans to tell her friends to apply. She would be
> content to get on the methadone program.
>
> “Methadone, whatever,” she said shrugging her shoulders. “I need something
> every day.”
>
> <]=———————————————————————–=[>
> [ Moderated by: Preston Peet |
> .drugwar.com ]
> | -=/[ To Subscribe: drugwar-subscribe@mindvox.com ]/=-
> |
> | To Unsubscribe: drugwar-unsubscribe@mindvox.com
> |
> [ DrugWar List in Digest Format:
> ugwar-digest-subscribe@mindvox.com ]
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Make My Way your home on the Web – http://www.myway.com

From: knowone knowwhere <kn0m0n3@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Question on Small Dose(s) before Major Dose
Date: January 31, 2005 at 12:25:02 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“also small doses of ibo can be used ahead of the main
dose to quite safely keep the patient more
comfortable.”

Brett,
I am really interested in this idea.  I would love
to          hear your (or anyone elses too) experience
with that on or off list.

Cheers,
-J

___________________________________________________________
ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To Francis
Date: January 31, 2005 at 12:14:58 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Francis, I read your list and I was being sarcastic. Whoa ….. there goes a
shooting star, that’s way over your head too, aint it? Don’t ever say that I
don’t read the list and imply that you love it more than I do. This list pulled
me through very tough times, addicted and newly Ibonized too. Matter of fact
Ibogaine and this list has made my life so full that I don’t have the time I
used to to read everything on it. Just the ones that catch my attention.  Yours
did. Sorry      Randy

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From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]-Provider question: Free will vs. Addiction(OT)
Date: January 31, 2005 at 11:59:47 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Sara !!
You are absolutely right !! It’simple, clear and direct !
Love you
Francis

—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 1:46 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]-Provider question: Free will vs. Addiction(OT)

Addiction is a mental  disorder, a mental disorder isn’t always addiction.

A mental disorder which some people like to self medicated , then they feel
Drugs like Heroin can be useful,which makes them addicted.

So you don’t need to feel shame for wanting to feel better with yourself
But not finding the better way then drugs.

The wish to be free of that way and looking for a new way to feel
Better is a normal way for the body to say “treat me nice “,
That is the only way to find harmoney , which is what everyone
Is craving within.

This is generally speaking.

Sara

Van: Jasen Chamoun [mailto:jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au] 
Verzonden: maandag 31 januari 2005 5:25
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine]-Provider question: Free will vs. Addiction(OT)

In my opinion,..it is both.

love
Jasen.
—– Original Message —–
From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 6:04 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]-Provider question: Free will vs. Addiction(OT)

In a message dated 30/01/2005 19:51:42 GMT Standard Time, rwd3@cox.net writes:
Central question:   Is addiction a disease or illness that providers hope to
treat?
Interested in what you guys think????????????????

From: “Beatriz Brasil” <beatrizbrasil@netvigator.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Buprenorphine (Tks Patrick)
Date: January 31, 2005 at 12:04:16 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

So sorry all. Here you are in the old copy and paste style. Should have
stick to it in the first place. There are two articles, the first
introducing Bupre, the second is my son’s interview.
With love, Beatriz

South China Morning Post
Monday, January 31, 2005New drug may help heroin addicts Combined with
counselling it can work better than methadone, says scientist
MARY ANN BENITEZ  Prev. Story | Next Story

Hong Kong should consider using a newer drug to treat heroin addicts
instead of relying on methadone which seldom helps people get on with their
lives, according to a visiting scientist. Heroin is the most commonly abused
drug in Hong Kong, making up almost three-quarters of registered cases,
according to government statistics.
Mahmud Mazland, a research scientist at Yale University and a consultant in
addiction psychiatry, said a one-year study found that buphrenorphine, a
synthetic opiate, lowered the risk of overdose. It also proved easier for
addicts to give up compared with methadone. Dr Mahmud gave a lecture
yesterday on recent advances in treating opiate dependence at a seminar
involving the Hong Kong College of Psychiatrists and Schering-Plough, the
manufacturer of the drug. Buphrenorphine works by blocking brain cell
receptors, decreasing the craving for heroin, opium, painkillers and other
opiates, Dr Mahmud said. A four-year study started in 2001 is being
conducted to look at the efficacy of buphrenorphine – also known as Subutex
in Asia. “It is not a miracle drug. It is a very important tool that helps
those who want to recover to do so in their own community without having the
stigma of being labelled as a drug addict,” Dr Mahmud said. “With long-term
care and a community-based treatment, they are able to work and able to have
a family.” Dr Mahmud said a buphrenorphine programme in Malaysia showed that
after a year of treating 79 heroin addicts, 43 were clean of heroin. Of
these, 35 were holding down jobs compared with 25 before the treatment
started. Treatment with buphrenorphine costs about $2,000 a month, including
psychotherapy, at private clinics in Hong Kong. By contrast, patients pay $1
a visit at the 20 methadone clinics subsidised by the government, costing
the taxpayer $20 million a year. Psychiatrist Stephen Ng Wai-man, who also
spoke at the seminar, said buphrenorphine was not commonly used in public
hospitals because it is expensive and needs experienced doctors to provide
counselling support. He explained that, “a lot of patients who take
methadone cannot work because of the sedating effect. After taking Subutex,
patients can work”. Dr Mahmud said the true extent of heroin addiction might
be two to three times more than the government figures suggest. “Once
treatment is easily accessible and efficacious, people will start to come.
They are a hidden population. “It is a terrible condition. A study has shown
that within the space of 20 years, two-thirds of heroin addicts will be dead
or missing [from treatment programmes] and presumed dead.”

South China Morning Post
Monday, January 31, 2005’I started snorting, then injecting … things got
pretty bad’ John used heroin to escape from reality, but his life has now
taken a turn for the better
MARY ANN BENITEZ  Prev. Story | Next Story

John with psychiatrist Stephen Ng at a counselling session. Picture
by Antony Dickson
John was 13 when he started using heroin, just a year after his family moved
to Hong Kong from Brazil. “I am a drug addict. I was introduced by some
friends to heroin and it spiralled out of control from there,” said the 25
year old. “In my first year in Hong Kong, I realised that people leave all
the time, people are constantly moving, and I found that very hard. Like
many other things, it just made it difficult for me to adjust. “Then I moved
to another school and I was going through a major depression. A friend said:
`You are pretty stressed-out. I think you should try some smack’. I did not
even know what it was. “I started snorting heroin, but two years later I was
injecting it. I dropped out of school when I was 15 or 16, because my
reputation [from another school] followed me there. I went from job to job.
When I was 17, I was working part-time in a trading company doing
translation and that paid really well. “I had all this money and I did not
know what to do with it. I ended up spending it on drugs and parties, and by
the eighth month I was falling asleep on the job. Things got pretty bad.
“After that I ended up going to a rehabilitation clinic for the first time,
in Ireland, spending six weeks there. “I was doing it more for my mum
because she was having a nervous breakdown from the whole thing. “I managed
to stay clean for about two months. But it is very hard in Hong Kong. Drugs
are easily available. The government covers up how it is. It is easy to get
drugs in Hong Kong. You can walk to any district and get heroin. “It is
cheap and because it is so strong I do not need to do a whole bag a day.
“Eventually your resistance goes up so you start doing a lot more. “I have
tried all sorts of treatment methods: psychiatrists, psychologists, doctors,
psychoanalysts. “I was doing methadone in government clinics. I had periods
of sobriety, but eventually I would relapse. “I ended up on methadone, but
it was making me feel even more ill than the heroin did. I would be sleeping
for 20 hours a day, I had no energy, I could not work. I just wanted a way
out. “When you are a drug addict you need to realise that you are in a bad
place. It took me a long time to understand that. “Heroin for me was an
escape from a reality that I despise. I do not like the way the world is and
I find it very hard to adapt to a society that is so tuned in to money. “Dr
Stephen Ng and I came to an agreement that [buprenorphrine] is the drug for
me. Since I started doing it, the improvement has been incredible. I started
losing weight. “I go to the gym, I go out with my friends, I am working
part-time again. “To youngsters, rather than turn to drugs they should just
start talking to teach other. We live in a culture where we do not speak
about our feelings or voice our opinions. “I do not think so much about
blame. I come to think of it as a disease. I do not think so much about the
drugs, it is more about the way I feel, and the drugs are the solution. “My
main goal in life is to open an orphanage in Brazil.”

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From: “m.finman” <mafinman@optonline.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vision problems/solutions post-Ibo
Date: January 31, 2005 at 11:47:50 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Julie and all,
The vision thing is a big issue with me.  Unlike yourself I didn’t require reading glasses until 10 years ago,( by then many years into using) however after the ibo I noticed my reading vision has deteriorated. The other day I had to ask my young nephew to read my fortune from the fortune cookie. To me it looked like a solid line.  He swore to me it said “today is a good day to buy a present for someone you love !’  Anyway, this vision thing is one of the main reasons I am hesitant to try another session. Parts of me desperately would like to do it again and then the other part wants to watch and see the natural progression of coming off and out from under the effects of having taking ibogaine/being on methedone and heroin for over 20 years.  My brother-in-law had fuzzy vision for a good 2-3 weeks after his session.
The sleeping thing:  I’m coming up on six months out and for me about 6 weeks ago when I got my treadmill and starting using it really regularly is when I started to sleep through the night.  About 10 days ago I wacked out my left knee on the treadmill from either too much incline work or enthusiasm.  The mind was willing. I have to learn that moderation thing people keep telling me about. Since I have been laying off the treadmill I have been waking up after 5- hours sleep, awake for 1-2 hours and then resuming for another 2 hours.
Another thing for me to consider, since my right elbow seems to be creaking a bit as well is this me just now noticing damage and aches and pains from all those years of methedone (which as Preston pointed out was an amazing pain killer). You know how all the oldtimers on the programs are walking with canes. While I did a lot of damage control at times, with my diet, I feel a lot of those brittle bones form methedone can be  partly from malnutrition.
The thing you also mentioned about dreams and memories,  I’m also feeling like I am clearing a lot of old memories and  past life stuff that’s been a thorn in my side thanks to the iboga.
I’d like to wait a while to see if there really is a such thing as “normal”.
So I’m just real curious what’s coming next as far as the progression goes without complicating it with coming off of another session. Although….
Martee
—– Original Message —– From: “Ms Iboga” <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 10:07 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Vision problems/solutions post-Ibo

J.,

Just wanted to chime in with my experience.  When I
first went on methadone, I had vision problems, and
had to get a prescription for spectacles, which I
would use for reading mostly.

After my Ibo detox, when I could actually see straight
again, I noticed I no longer needed to use the
glasses, as I could read books/papers/mags with my own
two eyes.

This leads me to believe that methadone might affect
your vision, and this is probably because it
constricts your pupils, thus limiting the amount of
light that hits your retinas.  It’s so great to have
my glasses tucked away at the bottom of my sock
drawer.

Anyone else experience something similar?

Julie

__________________________________
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From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To Randy
Date: January 31, 2005 at 11:45:37 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Randy !!

Hey Randy,

You wrote :
Man I have missed some good shit here lately. I wish I had seen
Francis’s
list of “How to win friends and influence Junkies” and could have been
current
with my reply.

Randy don’t take it personal but like you said ” I wish I had seen Franci’s
list. But you didn’t
The title wasn”t :  “How to win friends and influence Junkies”  🙂
I will be realy under the influence to write a title like this, and if you
know how to influence Junkies,
let me know: ..I am dead serious 🙂

You wrote :
I’m not addicted anymore although I will forever be an ex-junkie. Most
of
the
people on this list forgive me for that, being clean or being a junkie I
get
respect most of the time. I aim to HELP when I can, be it supportive or
putting
out information, I aim to help. I just want everyone to be happy.
Getting
clean made me happy. Part of it sucks no doubt but not as bad as running
out of
dope and having no money to get well

* Same here.I have only one simple problem , I found out that I could help
better addicts or alcoholics only if I could talk or write to them Still
limitations of my human condition, I am working on changing my abilities, I
am realy  thinking to go into bilocation and thought projection. 🙂 I mean
will it be that nice ? Slam ! Like Padre Pio or Saint Francis !

I appreciate your feedback, but we are talking of two different things : a
list that I wrote out of love and desesperation and a list that you never
read.
Please, read my list and I bet you will agree with me on a lot of point.

Francis
God bless you
I pass on you offert, you are not my type, but I still love you 🙂

Here’s one for the taboo list, don’t be a dick and insist
your
way is the only way to be happy. And here’s one for the hip list,  Being
clean,
ie. I wish I had done this before and it makes me love everybody more,
clean
or not. I’ve fucked up my life so much in the past I couldn’t begin to
tell
someone the RIGHT way to live. I can relate my experience’s and hope it
helps
someone but I could never insist that I have it right and someone else
is
wrong.
I’m not addicted anymore although I will forever be an ex-junkie. Most
of
the
people on this list forgive me for that, being clean or being a junkie I
get
respect most of the time. I aim to HELP when I can, be it supportive or
putting
out information, I aim to help. I just want everyone to be happy.
Getting
clean made me happy. Part of it sucks no doubt but not as bad as running
out of
dope and having no money to get well. That’s my decission. I try and be
cool
with eveyone I come in contact with because the alternitive is
unacceptable. I
hate assholes and I try and avoid being one. I can be extremely
assholish
if I
want to, and am, when pushed into it. Trust me. I don’t want to be
confrontive, there is enough of that here as it is. I’m a tree huggin’,
gun totin’, music
playin’, (by the way, Vivaldi rocks, so do all the Wynin’s, hehe}
natural
herb ingesting mother fucker. I just don’t think I’m a fucking genuis
and
that my
way is the only way.Being clean works for me and I will gladly help
anyone
I
know with the information that I have. I’ll help people I don’t freakin’
know
for that matter but I aint out to force my will on someone else or to
take
their inventory for them. That’s just too fucking personal and
disrespectful for
my way. So in closing just let me add one more thing to the hip list.
BLOWJOBS
ie. the one you can give me if you can’t dig what I am saying. How’s
that
for
being confrontive, or is that abusive? I’m just not good at this shit.
Randy

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From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] 5-HTP
Date: January 31, 2005 at 11:31:51 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Schmooleyboy,

Not to offend but I read many of your posts where my understanding and experience is contrary to yours. It reminds me of being a patient, the good “DOCTOR” says whatever he says of how a certain medication./procedure is going to do or what “our” goals are, or the infamous “this won’t hurt” and time after time it is like they read it in a book somewhere. I have tried Zoloft and very many other drugs, there is enormous variouation in effects and side effects in patient to patient. They told me I would be a “new man” on zoloft, in 8 days I was a new woman and starting to feel very uncomfortable from the medication. I normally get paradoxical reactions, dope makes me WIRED, time after time I tell doctors about my side effects, time after time I get ignored, time after time they do medicine “by the numbers” – xome dose of some drug, time after time they are wrong and I am right, time after time I suffer and they get a pay check. Time after time I se

THere is this comment;

“Please please do this..”. All Ibo takers should be of meth for 72 hours prior to Ibo. Switch to short acting opiates. Morphine, hydro or oxy , all work well. Dilaudid works well”

For many addicts it switching to short acting opiates is a real BAD IDEA… everything needs to be in its context (the patient, the resources at hand), everything is not THIS WAY OR THAT. I also know many people who have been treated quite safely and successfully taking ibo long before 72 hours post meth, also small doses of ibo can be used ahead of the main dose to quite safely keep the patient more comfortable.

Or this

“Ibogaine does NOT reduce or relieve nicotine cravings but may reduce nicotine withdrawal physical symptoms. ”

Sorry it didn’t work FOR YOU that way (you did try it, you do know how it feels to quit smoking using ibogaine, RIGHT?). Ibogaine ABSOLUTELY, works for reducing cravings, that is why people spontainously don’t smoke for a period of time (sometimes, not all the time), post ibogaine. Mileage on everyting varies. Lets see, in my case the first 8 or so times I dosed IBO I smoked right through a few times, stopped for period lasting from days to weels – TILL THE CRAVINGS CAME BACK, the last time I smoked through ibo session (left it alone) and a week later stopped, never looked back and only had moments of cravings. Oddly some weeks later (as the NOR-IBO levels went down ?) it got a little harder (more cravings) then eased back down.

Or my very favorite (in the same email)

“Post IBO pot initially appears to calm anxiety but it’s sum total is actually to increase anxiety and only reinforces the mind set which we wish to break which is SYMPTOM= SUBSTANCE.”

Some people do well with pot, some people don’t do well with pot, everybody is different.

It is a perfectly natural thing for someone to take a substance if they have a symptom, the problems come in with intent, if the “symptom” is you want to get high, well then yeah, that is the one we have to break, if it is because you have say a pain, or nervous condtion, or maybe it is the 3rd day post ibo and you haven’t slept then a substance may be indicated. I am not talking about every little ache or anxiety, WHEN IT WILL HELP – in the big picture as well as short term relief in a manner inconsistant with addiction and consistant.

I drink camomile tea to help sleep.I have valium and ristoril, rarely-occasionally use them in small doses (1.25mg valium mostly, sometimes 2.5mg – or 1/2 a valium, 15mg or ristori)..

I have pain and deep breath, do Yoga, go to the chiropractor – sometimes those things can actually hurt more than help, sometimes the answer isn’t taking toxic amounts of ineffective NSAIDS and tylenol… and I take whatever, these days it is Dilaudid (break 2mg in 1/2 and take 1mg at a time – max about 5 mg), just discontinued oxycontin 2 weeks ago (just stopped, no ibo, no weaning), Actiq which is fentanyl citrate lolly-pops when it gets bad but fentanyl does bad things to my head, some SOMA (again 1/4th at a time).   Absolutely nothing wrong with taking those meds in the way I do, typically very measured and methodical. 2 years ago when I landed at a pain management doc I had to ask myself “HOW?”, the answer I got was “WHEN IT WILL HELP”.

So, if it helps one should take it, if it won’t help, then one should not take it – whichever way the scales tip is what is indicated, depending on that particular patient/person.  When it will help then someone could possible use marijuana or maybe prescription drug, or whatever then it should be applied.I have good “doctors” keep trying to apply poisonous substances to me regardless of what I tell them (if they dont’ listen they have zero probability of helping and nearly 100% chance of hurting me – but that is typically what happens, especially with pain patients and addiction medicine. I have doctors that want to keep giving me drugs doing more harm, that have failed in the past, that seems to make no difference to them. that I don’t use “addictive” drugs seems to take priority over everything, real or imagined…

Brett

Schmoolyboy@aol.com wrote:
By the wat Zoloft must be taken for 4 weeks continuously to have any anti-anxiety effect. and a mild one at that. It does little for benzo withdrawal. Zyprexa and Seroquel work much better.

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Search presents – Jib Jab’s ‘Second Term’

From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] AA and Gurus
Date: January 31, 2005 at 10:58:39 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Randy !!
Dr. Bob had the same problem when he discover the power of Vitamins B
against alcoholism. He shoot himself and few of his friends with B’s but
could’nt talk about it in meetings.
I have some people from NA who are very interested in Ibogaine. I give
them the documentation. I think, in my humble opinion, that the program +
Ibogaine will be a killer !!
” Meetings makers make it” The meetings are wonderful to learnt how to
relate to others and to downsize our F@#  ego and start to think of others.
I realy love the program.it’s like a big  familly, a big mafia. Actualy, I
try to work mostly with people in recovery. The money stay in the familly
🙂 and it’s wonderful to see the progress of people  putting back their
life together.For esample :I have a friend who is going back to see his
familly after tomorrow, you should see the man !! Trying to lose weight,
putting some money together, buying gifts for his kids !! Is a miracle to
see a man who spent 10 years in jail to grow as a responsible, caring
adult.They told us ” wait for the miracles…..” I am watching the miracles
everyday.
God Bless
Francis

—– Original Message —–
From: <BiscuitBoy714@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 6:32 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] AA and Gurus

Francis, my last post to you was tongue in cheek but I meant what I said.
I’m
with you on the subject of AA and Guru’s. Bill W. and DR. Bob’s book and
organazation saved me in a big way. So did Howard and the information he
kept
insisting on putting out to the masses. I am eternaly grateful for all of
the
people who have helped me on my way. My sponsor in Erie is a great man but
when I
told him about Ibogaine he rolled his eye’s and started talking about mind
altering substance’s and all anyone needs is meetings. Bullshit, you have
to
treat the addiction first and I told him that. We plesantly disagreed. I
go to
meetings to get what I need from them, not what someone tells me that I
need.
Ibogaine has made me way more intuitive. I still have a sponsor who loves
me, and
I love him, we just disagree on some things. He just wants me to do well.
I’m
trying to give back what was so freely given to me in my own way.
Randy

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From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Buprenorphine (Tks Patrick)
Date: January 31, 2005 at 10:41:37 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Isn’t this a great list, Beatriz?  Here’s hoping for continued
good things coming to you and your son.

ann
aka mama to Biscuitboy
think@francomm.com

—– Original Message —– From: “Beatriz Brasil” <beatrizbrasil@netvigator.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 9:27 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Buprenorphine (Tks Patrick)

Dear Patrick, Dear List members

I am enclosing herewith two links to articles on bupre published today at
the local paper. One of them is an interview with my son and his experience
with buprenorphine maintenance.

Thank you so much Patrick. What you once wrote about how you felt towards
the buprenorphine maintenance led me to further consider it as an
alternative for my son.

Thank you list for having me here.
I will let you know when we get to Ibogaine. And yes, I am a mom, too.

Beatriz

http://hongkong.scmp.com/hknews/ZZZEPF9HJ3E.html
http://hongkong.scmp.com/hknews/ZZZM1YAHJ3E.html

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From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Buprenorphine (Tks Patrick)
Date: January 31, 2005 at 10:16:38 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

HI:
anyway to get this link w/o subscribing to the newspaper? thanks , ron
—– Original Message —– From: “Beatriz Brasil” <beatrizbrasil@netvigator.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 8:27 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Buprenorphine (Tks Patrick)

Dear Patrick, Dear List members

I am enclosing herewith two links to articles on bupre published today at
the local paper. One of them is an interview with my son and his experience
with buprenorphine maintenance.

Thank you so much Patrick. What you once wrote about how you felt towards
the buprenorphine maintenance led me to further consider it as an
alternative for my son.

Thank you list for having me here.
I will let you know when we get to Ibogaine. And yes, I am a mom, too.

Beatriz

http://hongkong.scmp.com/hknews/ZZZEPF9HJ3E.html
http://hongkong.scmp.com/hknews/ZZZM1YAHJ3E.html

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From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Buprenorphine (Tks Patrick)
Date: January 31, 2005 at 10:07:06 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Beatriz, in the articles about your son? The web
page won’t load it unless you subscribe to that
newspaper, can you reprint what it says?

Happy your son is doing good 🙂

Carla B

— Beatriz Brasil <beatrizbrasil@netvigator.com>
wrote:

Dear Patrick, Dear List members

I am enclosing herewith two links to articles on
bupre published today at
the local paper. One of them is an interview with my
son and his experience
with buprenorphine maintenance.

Thank you so much Patrick. What you once wrote about
how you felt towards
the buprenorphine maintenance led me to further
consider it as an
alternative for my son.

Thank you list for having me here.
I will let you know when we get to Ibogaine. And
yes, I am a mom, too.

Beatriz

http://hongkong.scmp.com/hknews/ZZZEPF9HJ3E.html
http://hongkong.scmp.com/hknews/ZZZM1YAHJ3E.html

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fw: [DrugWar] Canada: Is Free Heroin Just a Quick Fix?
Date: January 31, 2005 at 9:45:52 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

snip from the article below:

“Sometimes you need something just to relax and get your mind together,
instead of always being in a state of panic. That’s what’s killing everyone
down here,” she said, pointing to the throngs of bedraggled souls shuffling
along East Hastings Street. Like Ms. Woelke, they must hit the pavement
every day to raise enough cash for their drugs. Most steal. Many women work
as prostitutes.

“They have to do things they wouldn’t normally do.”

This is exactly what some of Canada’s top addiction experts want to find
out when they begin the first heroin prescription trial in North America.

If heroin addicts are freed of their daily chase for drugs, if it is given
to them three times a day like medicine, can they change their lives for
the better?<

This woman has it nailed with her comment about the panic being what’s killinng all her addict frieds and acquaintances on the streets.
There’s more below. Too awesome. This is what we should be doing, ALONG with offering addicts ibogaine and methadone and whatever else it may take to get them to a point where THEY, the ADDICTS- not Nick, or the Court, or Preston Peet, or the police and judges, or Bill W., or the Bwiti, or whomever it is- feel they are most happy. Not “they’re a drag,” not they just be integrated into society along with everyone else, not they must be forced into participating in life, none of that is a good criteria for action or even worthy goals IN MY OPINION. The main goals in my mind are to enable each and every person to live happily as possible to the extent they are not hurting others while making themselves happy, to reduce as many possible harms to the addict and the rest of society too without forcing anyone into anything against their will.
I’m pretty sure that the authorities involved in this effort will notice a drop in crime on the part of the participant, and even probably a climb in things like employemnnt and other markers like this.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Mysterious Roots- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Explorations and Enigmas” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Richard Lake” <rlake@mapinc.org>
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 8:20 AM
Subject: [DrugWar] Canada: Is Free Heroin Just a Quick Fix?

Newshawk: CMAP http://www.mapinc.org/cmap
Pubdate: Mon, 31 Jan 2005
Source: Globe and Mail (Canada)
Page: A1 – Front Page
Copyright: 2005, The Globe and Mail Company
Contact: letters@globeandmail.ca
Website: http://www.globeandmail.ca/
Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/168
Author: Jane Armstrong
Cited: Centre for Addiction and Mental Health http://www.camh.net/
Cited: Canadian Institutes of Health Research http://www.cihr-irsc.gc.ca/
Bookmark: http://www.mapinc.org/heroin.htm (Heroin)
Bookmark: http://www.mapinc.org/find?136 (Methadone)
Bookmark: http://www.mapinc.org/topics/Downtown+Eastside

IS FREE HEROIN JUST A QUICK FIX?

VANCOUVER — On a warm, rainy Saturday morning, Debbie Woelke stops pushing her shopping cart long enough to discuss the pros and cons of a plan to give free heroin to drug addicts in Canada’s poorest neighbourhood.

The heroin trial is all the talk of Vancouver’s Downtown Eastside and Ms. Woelke, 48, thinks it’s a good idea. She might even apply, herself. “They should have done this a long time ago,” she said leaning on her cart, which contains all her worldly belongings — not groceries.

Like other addicts, Ms. Woelke lives in a bleak rented room in a residential hotel. Far better to be outside in the rain, even if it means wheeling around your clothes all day.

“Sometimes you need something just to relax and get your mind together, instead of always being in a state of panic. That’s what’s killing everyone down here,” she said, pointing to the throngs of bedraggled souls shuffling along East Hastings Street. Like Ms. Woelke, they must hit the pavement every day to raise enough cash for their drugs. Most steal. Many women work as prostitutes.

“They have to do things they wouldn’t normally do.”

This is exactly what some of Canada’s top addiction experts want to find out when they begin the first heroin prescription trial in North America.

If heroin addicts are freed of their daily chase for drugs, if it is given to them three times a day like medicine, can they change their lives for the better?

In a couple of weeks, the research team will begin taking applications here in Vancouver and later in Toronto and Montreal from addicts who want to be part of the study.

Researchers are looking for hard-core addicts, people who have tried and failed at least twice to get clean. In the three cities, there are spots for 428 addicts, roughly half of whom will receive heroin for a year; the other half will receive methadone, an artificial opiate that controls the cravings for heroin.

In Vancouver, the trials are causing a stir on the syringe-littered streets of the city’s skid row, home to more than 4,000 drug users. Among those who deal first hand with these chaotic lives, there’s a feeling that Canada is breaking new ground in how it treats the most intractable of drug addictions.

Similar studies in the Netherlands and Switzerland have shown positive results for addicts.

“What if you could say to an addict, ‘For the next little while, you’re not going to have to get your drugs from Al Capone. You can get your drugs from Marcus Welby,’ ” said Dr. Martin Schechter, the project’s lead researcher.

“You don’t have to worry about this afternoon and this evening. And therefore, you don’t have to go and break in to cars or be a prostitute. You could actually come and talk to a counsellor or . . . get some skills training.”

It’s a landmark study in North America, one that turns its back on abstinence as the goal.

But not everyone is thrilled with the prospect of free heroin for hard-core addicts. And even supporters have expressed concern about the ethics of offering heroin to addicts for a prescribed period of time. Is it fair to yank away their heroin at the end of the year?

Addiction experts in Canada have already expressed concerns about the risk of overdoses.

Last December, two staff physicians at Toronto’s Centre for Addiction and Mental Health wrote scathing critiques to the ethics adviser of the Canadian Institutes of Health Research, the agency funding the study.

Vancouver physician Stanley deVlaming is worried the trials are designed to garner positive results. In Vancouver, 88 subjects are to receive heroin, while 70 will receive methadone, the heroin substitute.

“How meaningful will it be to compare the group of 88 elated subjects that win the heroin lottery to the group of 70 who were also desperately trying to get the free heroin, but lost the luck of the draw?” asked Dr. deVlaming, who has treated addicts in the Downtown Eastside for more than a dozen years.

“The first group would likely be very motivated to give the researchers positive results, while the second disappointed and disgruntled group randomized to methadone would be much less motivated.”

As expected, the plan has rankled U.S. drug officials, specifically the office of White House drug czar John Walters, where an official called it an unethical and “inhumane medical experiment.”

Offering free heroin to addicts when there are proven treatments for addiction can’t be justified if the addict’s desire is to get off drugs, policy analyst David Murray said.

“What you’re doing is making it easier to be a heroin addict,” he said from Washington. “These people won’t get that much better in the long run. They will still be heroin addicts.”

Washington’s disapproval was expected and hasn’t deterred Ottawa from funding the study. The Canadian Institutes of Health Research has committed $8.1-million for the trials.

In Vancouver, the plan has the support of top politicians and law enforcers, including the mayor and the police chief.

Mayor Larry Campbell, who was once a coroner and drug cop, said the trials are needed because current treatments aren’t working for hard-core addicts.

“The critical thing is to accept this as a medical condition,” Mr. Campbell said.

“The side effects of this medical condition is that it forces you to . . . do things that you would never do, be it work as a sex-trade worker, be a B and E [break-and-enter] artist or a purse snatcher. So if I can mitigate that by putting you on heroin, imagine the changes you could have.”

Right now, the trial is waiting for Health Canada to grant the necessary exemption form the Canadian Narcotics Act.

Ms. Woelke said she plans to tell her friends to apply. She would be content to get on the methadone program.

“Methadone, whatever,” she said shrugging her shoulders. “I need something every day.”

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To Randy
Date: January 31, 2005 at 7:35:24 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

M, I missed a lot of my son growing up too, but he and I have come to grips
with that. I try and not dwell on what I can’t change. Letting him see me doing
well is the best thing I can do for our relationship. I reflect on the past
but I don’t mourn it like I used to, I think Ibogaine helped me there. I can
now see that not all of my past sucked, I did some pretty cool stuff addicted or
not. My ex and I gave our son life, that’s as loving as it gets. He
appreciate’s it and I hope your daughter does too. I love all children. I think they
make life worth the effort. Hopefully our children will learn from us and have a
better life. It is real good to hear from you.      Randy

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]-Provider question: Free will vs. Addiction(OT)
Date: January 31, 2005 at 6:33:19 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In my opinion it’s neither! Just a temporary learning tool.

Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: Jasen Chamoun [mailto:jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au]
Sent: 31 January 2005 04:25
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]-Provider question: Free will vs. Addiction(OT)

In my opinion,..it is both.

love
Jasen.
—– Original Message —–
From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 6:04 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]-Provider question: Free will vs. Addiction(OT)

In a message dated 30/01/2005 19:51:42 GMT Standard Time, rwd3@cox.net writes:
Central question:   Is addiction a disease or illness that providers hope to
treat?

Interested in what you guys think????????????????

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] AA and Gurus
Date: January 31, 2005 at 6:32:26 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Francis, my last post to you was tongue in cheek but I meant what I said. I’m
with you on the subject of AA and Guru’s. Bill W. and DR. Bob’s book and
organazation saved me in a big way. So did Howard and the information he kept
insisting on putting out to the masses. I am eternaly grateful for all of the
people who have helped me on my way. My sponsor in Erie is a great man but when I
told him about Ibogaine he rolled his eye’s and started talking about mind
altering substance’s and all anyone needs is meetings. Bullshit, you have to
treat the addiction first and I told him that. We plesantly disagreed. I go to
meetings to get what I need from them, not what someone tells me that I need.
Ibogaine has made me way more intuitive. I still have a sponsor who loves me, and
I love him, we just disagree on some things. He just wants me to do well. I’m
trying to give back what was so freely given to me in my own way.
Randy

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]
Date: January 31, 2005 at 6:05:53 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Donna, I agree with just about everything that Nick has said to you. I just
don’t know where these providers are that are giving treatments without having
some aftercare in place. At least plans of aftercare. In my quest for
treatment I talked to people in Amsterdam, Mexico, St. Kitts, Canada and 3 different
undergroud providers and everyone of them wanted to know what aftercare I was
going to pursue. No one chased me around telling me I had to be clean or
anything like that. I went to them and asked for help and I finaly got it. Maybe
Ibogaine doesn’t work for everyone but it did for me. Nick’s protocol looks
pretty good. I just want to say that I am glad I had an experienced provider with
me to help me process what was going on, and a lot went on believe me. They
don’t just hook you up and empty the bucket when you puke. My provider helped me
to experience one of the most beautiful things I have ever been through. Oh it
sucked too, believe that, it’s hard work tripping for 2 days, my provider
helped me focos on the positive aspects instead of the negative aspects and so
far so good. I’ve had therapy, lots of 12 step meetings and I keep my head in
the Ibogaine list and it seems to be working for me. I want the best for you,
and it sounds like you know what you want, so go for it. Be careful, Ibogaine is
not anything to be taken lightly. Life ROCKS turn it up.         Randy

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From: “Kirsty Sutherland” <captkirk@kol.co.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] 5-HTP
Date: January 31, 2005 at 5:34:59 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Kiss Hugs (avert yon eyes KEN!! Lol)
That’s some extremely important information there and it is muchas grassy ass thankyou heapz n heapz.
I must ask my done chemist, she’s funny… originally from Ireland, she spilt my dose the other day and said (fuk) under her breath, so I laughed and said does it come out of your pocket?  She then muttered no, but it’s a fukking nusience cos I have to account for it all and now I have to email the fukken basterds…..   just sounded funny coming from a pharmacist, I’m used to extremely straight ones!!!  All said in a Dublin style accent!  (rewatching commitments at the mo, luff the irish)
Anyway, where wuz i? oh yeh my pharm., she may be open minded, or just swears lots……
Thanks again
Kirsty
From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com [mailto:Schmoolyboy@aol.com] 
Sent: Monday, 31 January 2005 5:15 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] 5-HTP

5 HTP should only be taken for 4 -5 days on then 2-3 days off. It’s meabolism is speeded up every day you take it. So the conversion of 5 HTP to HT to seretonin is faster every day you take it. After 4 days usage at dosages of 100mgs nightly, it turns to seretonin so fast that it can not get through the blood brain barrier and then you have all this seretonin in the peripheral vascular system which can increase anxiety.

The seretonin only works if it gets to the brain . Stopping for as little as 2 days allows the liver to normalize again.

Doubt this… well look it up. You will see I am right.

Ht was legal in the early 80’s People started to get a muscle problem call Eosiniphilia Myalgia Syndrome. The Gov. thought it was due to HT and made HT available by RX only. Later, the CDC found out it was not the HT causing the problem but one particular Chinese manufacture of HT that made it in lead pots and thus the heavy metals where causing the muscle problem and not the HT. Yet, they left it by RX only and 5 HT available over the counter despite it’s problems with hepatic enhanced metabolism.

No companies make HT but a Doc can prescribe it and a compounding pharmacist can make it for you. A months supply costs about $25. Hope this helps

–
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.302 / Virus Database: 265.6.5 – Release Date: 12/26/2004

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From: “FakePlacebo” <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] To Randy
Date: January 31, 2005 at 4:59:13 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Randy,

I’m totaly agreed what you are saying but sometimes I feel like I’m late for
life. I missed so many things. For example I missed all childhood of my
doughter. What do you say about this?

Best Regards
FakePlacebo

—– Original Message —–
From: <BiscuitBoy714@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 10:58 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Francis

Man I have missed some good shit here lately. I wish I had seen Francis’s
list of “How to win friends and influence Junkies” and could have been
current
with my reply. Here’s one for the taboo list, don’t be a dick and insist
your
way is the only way to be happy. And here’s one for the hip list,  Being
clean,
ie. I wish I had done this before and it makes me love everybody more,
clean
or not. I’ve fucked up my life so much in the past I couldn’t begin to
tell
someone the RIGHT way to live. I can relate my experience’s and hope it
helps
someone but I could never insist that I have it right and someone else is
wrong.
I’m not addicted anymore although I will forever be an ex-junkie. Most of
the
people on this list forgive me for that, being clean or being a junkie I
get
respect most of the time. I aim to HELP when I can, be it supportive or
putting
out information, I aim to help. I just want everyone to be happy. Getting
clean made me happy. Part of it sucks no doubt but not as bad as running
out of
dope and having no money to get well. That’s my decission. I try and be
cool
with eveyone I come in contact with because the alternitive is
unacceptable. I
hate assholes and I try and avoid being one. I can be extremely assholish
if I
want to, and am, when pushed into it. Trust me. I don’t want to be
confrontive, there is enough of that here as it is. I’m a tree huggin’,
gun totin’, music
playin’, (by the way, Vivaldi rocks, so do all the Wynin’s, hehe} natural
herb ingesting mother fucker. I just don’t think I’m a fucking genuis and
that my
way is the only way.Being clean works for me and I will gladly help anyone
I
know with the information that I have. I’ll help people I don’t freakin’
know
for that matter but I aint out to force my will on someone else or to take
their inventory for them. That’s just too fucking personal and
disrespectful for
my way. So in closing just let me add one more thing to the hip list.
BLOWJOBS
ie. the one you can give me if you can’t dig what I am saying. How’s that
for
being confrontive, or is that abusive? I’m just not good at this shit.
Randy

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Francis
Date: January 31, 2005 at 3:58:19 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Man I have missed some good shit here lately. I wish I had seen Francis’s
list of “How to win friends and influence Junkies” and could have been current
with my reply. Here’s one for the taboo list, don’t be a dick and insist your
way is the only way to be happy. And here’s one for the hip list,  Being clean,
ie. I wish I had done this before and it makes me love everybody more, clean
or not. I’ve fucked up my life so much in the past I couldn’t begin to tell
someone the RIGHT way to live. I can relate my experience’s and hope it helps
someone but I could never insist that I have it right and someone else is wrong.
I’m not addicted anymore although I will forever be an ex-junkie. Most of the
people on this list forgive me for that, being clean or being a junkie I get
respect most of the time. I aim to HELP when I can, be it supportive or putting
out information, I aim to help. I just want everyone to be happy. Getting
clean made me happy. Part of it sucks no doubt but not as bad as running out of
dope and having no money to get well. That’s my decission. I try and be cool
with eveyone I come in contact with because the alternitive is unacceptable. I
hate assholes and I try and avoid being one. I can be extremely assholish if I
want to, and am, when pushed into it. Trust me. I don’t want to be
confrontive, there is enough of that here as it is. I’m a tree huggin’, gun totin’, music
playin’, (by the way, Vivaldi rocks, so do all the Wynin’s, hehe} natural
herb ingesting mother fucker. I just don’t think I’m a fucking genuis and that my
way is the only way.Being clean works for me and I will gladly help anyone I
know with the information that I have. I’ll help people I don’t freakin’ know
for that matter but I aint out to force my will on someone else or to take
their inventory for them. That’s just too fucking personal and disrespectful for
my way. So in closing just let me add one more thing to the hip list. BLOWJOBS
ie. the one you can give me if you can’t dig what I am saying. How’s that for
being confrontive, or is that abusive? I’m just not good at this shit.
Randy

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From: “FakePlacebo” <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] To Miss Iboga / [Ibogaine] Hyperactivity- Ann
Date: January 31, 2005 at 3:46:01 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yes,
I was an hyperactive kid too; and I think I’m still unpeacefull one,
restless one.

Best Regards
FakePlacebo

—– Original Message —–
From: “Ms Iboga” <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 7:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Hyperactivity- Ann

Hi Ann,

You wrote:
**I wonder too?  I also wonder if there is a
coorelation to “hyperactivity”
in
childhood?

Just wanted to let you know, that I WAS a hyperactive
child.  I had to be taken off sugar and red
food-colouring until about 9/10 years old.

I find your hypothesis very thought-provoking, and
would be interested in hearing how many of us were
hyperactive as children.  Maybe this is why we were
drawn to the opiate class of drugs…??

Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The all-new My Yahoo! – What will yours do?
http://my.yahoo.com

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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]-Provider question: Free will vs. Addiction(OT)
Date: January 31, 2005 at 1:46:09 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Addiction is a mental  disorder, a mental disorder isn’t always addiction.

A mental disorder which some people like to self medicated , then they feel
Drugs like Heroin can be useful,which makes them addicted.

So you don’t need to feel shame for wanting to feel better with yourself
But not finding the better way then drugs.

The wish to be free of that way and looking for a new way to feel
Better is a normal way for the body to say “treat me nice “,
That is the only way to find harmoney , which is what everyone
Is craving within.

This is generally speaking.

Sara

Van: Jasen Chamoun [mailto:jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au] 
Verzonden: maandag 31 januari 2005 5:25
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine]-Provider question: Free will vs. Addiction(OT)

In my opinion,..it is both.

love
Jasen.
—– Original Message —–
From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 6:04 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]-Provider question: Free will vs. Addiction(OT)

In a message dated 30/01/2005 19:51:42 GMT Standard Time, rwd3@cox.net writes:
Central question:   Is addiction a disease or illness that providers hope to
treat?
Interested in what you guys think????????????????

From: “booker w” <swbooker@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] AA and Gurus
Date: January 31, 2005 at 12:49:59 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Francis. Thanks for your thoughtful reply.  I can’t say I agree with you on very much, but truthfully I have no more desire to debate any of this stuff.  Whatever makes you happy or healthy or whatever… You certainly haven’t disappointed me!
Best to you and all others – Sandy

>From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>

>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>

>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] AA and Gurus

>Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 13:58:37 -0500

>

>Hi Sandy !!

>            In the true spirit of AA and NA, I have to bring my 2 cents 🙂

>

>You wrote:

>   ” I’ve been trying to avoid this discussion, since it DOES seem pointless to try to change anyone’s mind.”

>

>* : “DOES seem pointless ” It’s seem point less but is NOT. In the rooms for the last 60 years and now in more than 150 000 Club houses all over the planet,  they are tryng or  actualy are changing the mind of hard core alcoholics and addicts.

>Quite a successful journey 🙂 If you think that all started with a couple of broke drunks

>

>you wrote :

>        ” I was told over and over at AA;  that everything is happening just exactly the way it’s supposed to”

>* Everything is happening just exactly the way it’s supposed to . God know best what is good for you . This statement is for people who are clean and sober.People who gave up their will for God will. This do not apply always and everywhere. Will be to simple, don’t you think ?

>

>You follow with:

>   “that everything is happening just exactly the way it’s supposed to – so if Preston and myself are still “using,” that’s perfect.

>  I don’t understand – but I don’t think anyone really understands any of it very well (even the “self-proclaimed gurus.”).

>

>* you wrote that  you “don’t understand “and that OK because you started with a wrong explanation and a deformation of the thought of AA.  You wrote ” but I don’t think anyone really understands any of it very well ” You right, this a paradox and only people who gave up the fight agins their addiction like in Step One and surrender to a power greater then themselves can understand it. Spirituality is mysterious and don’t follow ours human rules. How the infinitely small can understant the infinitely great ?

>About the ” self proclamed gurus ”  All the Gurus are self proclaimed contrary to the rest of us who could be elected..Generaly they do so out of a strong personal  spiritual experience. Some  could proclaime too themself as leaders out of crazyness, power or greed. I guess the only way to recognize the bad apple from the good  ones is trought the study of their lifes and fruits.

>In my humble opinion true gurus where Bob and Bill from AA regarding addictions and this came after a very stong spiritual experience for one of them. The man who discover Ibogaine and the use of it against addiction is a guru  .

>From Guru  : 17 century Sanscrit ” Elder, Teacher “.

>

>  Sorry, if  I disapointed you. 🙁

>

>God bless

>

>Francis

>P. S Regarding  Preston, I am sorry to know that he suffers from great physical pain. Is case is different, and I want to apologize to him if I hurted is feeling in anyway.

>

>From: booker w

>   To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>   Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 5:21 PM

>   Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Francis and Nick

>

>

>   Hi.  I’ve been trying to avoid this discussion, since it DOES seem pointless to try to change anyone’s mind.  But Nick, how about all the fat people…should we force them into “rehab” too, or at least go shopping with them and cook their food and exercise them.  They’re obviously draining the planet’s “good” vibes by their excess, not too mention all the animal suffering (it’s probably impossible to be fat and a vegan.)  I mention fatness because two of my best friends are literally dying from morbid obesity.  Watching them eat is like watching a dying junkie shoot up. It’s damn difficult to see, and I offer whatever I can for them, but I don’t support holding a gun to their head… (or forced rehab either.)

>

>   Preston, I support your position completely, but I think you’re probably right to give up the fight.  Nick, you’ve always been great to me, but yeah, I agree with Howard.  You were so into “the world is doomed,” and now I guess you’ve changed that stance and want to help alleviate suffering, which is great!  But, just like most of us, we want everyone else to change and think we know just how they should do it.  Don’t worry, I think that all the time myself, but I know it’s mistaken.  One of the precepts I was told over and over at AA;  that everything is happening just exactly the way it’s supposed to – so if Preston and myself are still “using,” that’s perfect.  Why that’s perfect, I don’t understand – but I don’t think anyone really understands any of it very well (even the “self-proclaimed gurus.”)  Another thing that I also learned in AA is that it’s not really my business what anyone else is doing.  Just concentrate on “my side of the street.”  (Another damn difficult thing to do.)  There’s chaos, then there’s order, then chaos again… that’s the only idea that makes any sense to me anymore…

>

>   Best to all, Sandy

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]-Provider question: Free will vs. Addiction(OT)
Date: January 30, 2005 at 11:24:51 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In my opinion,..it is both.

love
Jasen.
—– Original Message —–
From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 6:04 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]-Provider question: Free will vs. Addiction(OT)

In a message dated 30/01/2005 19:51:42 GMT Standard Time, rwd3@cox.net writes:
Central question:   Is addiction a disease or illness that providers hope to
treat?

Interested in what you guys think????????????????

From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] 5-HTP
Date: January 30, 2005 at 11:19:05 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

effexor increases serotonin initially and after 2 weeks also increase epinephrine thus increasing anxiety

From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] 5-HTP
Date: January 30, 2005 at 11:16:51 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

By the wat Zoloft must be taken for 4 weeks continuously to have any anti-anxiety effect. and a mild one at that. It does little for benzo withdrawal. Zyprexa and Seroquel work much better.

From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] 5-HTP
Date: January 30, 2005 at 11:15:21 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

5 HTP should only be taken for 4 -5 days on then 2-3 days off. It’s meabolism is speeded up every day you take it. So the conversion of 5 HTP to HT to seretonin is faster every day you take it. After 4 days usage at dosages of 100mgs nightly, it turns to seretonin so fast that it can not get through the blood brain barrier and then you have all this seretonin in the peripheral vascular system which can increase anxiety.

The seretonin only works if it gets to the brain . Stopping for as little as 2 days allows the liver to normalize again.

Doubt this… well look it up. You will see I am right.

Ht was legal in the early 80’s People started to get a muscle problem call Eosiniphilia Myalgia Syndrome. The Gov. thought it was due to HT and made HT available by RX only. Later, the CDC found out it was not the HT causing the problem but one particular Chinese manufacture of HT that made it in lead pots and thus the heavy metals where causing the muscle problem and not the HT. Yet, they left it by RX only and 5 HT available over the counter despite it’s problems with hepatic enhanced metabolism.

No companies make HT but a Doc can prescribe it and a compounding pharmacist can make it for you. A months supply costs about $25. Hope this helps

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw: [DrugWar] US: Dr. Ecstasy
Date: January 30, 2005 at 11:14:48 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Preston,

You are a cool dude.

love ya mate,..Jasen

—– Original Message —– From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 4:53 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fw: [DrugWar] US: Dr. Ecstasy

Hey,
Maybe we should lock up Dr. Shulgin and his wife. Or force them to take ibogaine and if it doesn’t “work” (and that’s something else btw, mentioned in Randy’s post- ibogaine DID work for me folks- I got exactly what I wanted and needed from taking ibogaine I feel, and will do it again at some point, quite possibly more than once too) get the government to coerce them into stopping their obviously illegal and destructive drug use.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

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From: “Kirsty Sutherland” <captkirk@kol.co.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] RE: Nick
Date: January 30, 2005 at 10:58:39 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

” 

–
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.302 / Virus Database: 265.6.5 – Release Date: 12/26/2004

From: shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] after ibo treatment
Date: January 30, 2005 at 10:50:26 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Howard,yes I was taking the suboxone mix ,but I have been reassured that the naloxone isnt absorbed orally ,only if it is iv’d.Hmmm ,hope thats true.I was on an iddy biddy amount ,only used 4mg over 23 days ,the last 2  weeks  I split up a 2mg pill into crumbs & took decreasing amounts.The md told me the 1/2 life was 4-5 days.I dont know if saras will work out ,but I sure miss being sober.Thanks for your support-shell

HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 1/30/05 11:05:10 AM, skrupa20022002@yahoo.com writes:

>Hi everyone! I took my last buprenex dose this am.Dont know how bad
withdrawal
>will get ,but I know Im in the right place for support as needed.They tell
>me bup w/d is very long but milder ,any ibonauts hve experience in this
>arena.Im considering ibogaine if this gets too tough,probably sara’s. Not
>really wanting to go to mexico again ,love those folks but dont really
>want the clinical setting deal, no angels around that I know of, I would
>never do it alone even tho Ive done it 3 times.All this tuff love stuff
>has me wondering how many times do I choose to go thru this, feeling like
>the detox queen here,what would my life be like if I wasnt doing this once
>or twice a year?Love yall, ill keep you posted -shell

Shelly,

If you are treating withdrawal and not addiction much lower doses of ibogaine
can be used. Buprenorphine binds to receptors for quite a long time. Some
of its metabolites may hang out for weeks. Even 150 mg HCl may have a
significant effect on moderating dependence as well as producing psychotherapeutic
benefits in some subjects. I would wait until you are experiencing withdrawal as
a matter of safety until more is known about burpenorphine and ibogaine
interaction. You might even start with 50mg HCl just to test the waters. Was your
last dose of burprenex 1mg and just to make sure you are not taking the
naloxone mix are you? I think going to Sara’s is a good idea even if it is not
tough going. It is like something to do. And with Sara there is so much more
than ibogaine/iboga.

Howard

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From: knowone knowwhere <kn0m0n3@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Tribe
Date: January 30, 2005 at 10:14:40 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Couple of Nice Video Clips:

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.iboga.org%2Ffr%2Fcheyssial%2F1.htm&langpair=fr%7Cen&hl=en&safe=off&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=%2Flanguage_tools

___________________________________________________________
ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

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From: “Beatriz Brasil” <beatrizbrasil@netvigator.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Buprenorphine (Tks Patrick)
Date: January 30, 2005 at 9:27:31 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Patrick, Dear List members

I am enclosing herewith two links to articles on bupre published today at
the local paper. One of them is an interview with my son and his experience
with buprenorphine maintenance.

Thank you so much Patrick. What you once wrote about how you felt towards
the buprenorphine maintenance led me to further consider it as an
alternative for my son.

Thank you list for having me here.
I will let you know when we get to Ibogaine. And yes, I am a mom, too.

Beatriz

http://hongkong.scmp.com/hknews/ZZZEPF9HJ3E.html
http://hongkong.scmp.com/hknews/ZZZM1YAHJ3E.html

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From: “Kirsty Sutherland” <captkirk@kol.co.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] (OT) Re: [Ibogaine] vegans
Date: January 30, 2005 at 8:25:25 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I will be very interested to hear how she is in another couple of years….
Please note, I’m not dumping on veganism and although I am a full on
carnivore I hate the mass killing of animals (and testing) and I try to eat
organic where I can (the supermarket shit is just that SHIT),specially
eggs…hate battery farms, they’re disgusting and I’d love to put the owners
into a cage for a few years…
Anyway…still waiting for the 7 year vegan woman to show up! lol

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Monday, 31 January 2005 1:52 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT) Re: [Ibogaine] vegans

My girlfriend V has been militantly Vegan since Oct. 2000. She says she is
very healthy, and that there isn’t any problem staying healthy. One simply
has to do the research on what extra vitamins one might need if one isn’t
getting them from their food, but that is not impossible to do either, that
it is completely possible to get everything one needs from ones food in
terms of nutrition even with any meat or dairy whatsoever.
It might take a little more work, but that’s just how it goes. She
doesn’t do it for health reasons, she’s vegan due to not enjoying the idea
of eating other animals. That’s her trip and she doesn’t lay it on others.
But then, V is a really cool person.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Mysterious Roots- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,

Explorations and Enigmas” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: Kirsty Sutherland
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 1:14 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] vegans

Just wanted to comment on the vegan thing, does anyone know of any women
that have been a vegan for more than 7 years and is not eating white meats?
(fish, chicken..)
Just curious, I have yet to meet one.
If there are, how do they keep healthy?  Would be good to post to others
considering going vegan, cos I know it’s damn hard to stay healthy…so if you

are out there!!!
Kirk


Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
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From: “Kirsty Sutherland” <captkirk@kol.co.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]
Date: January 30, 2005 at 8:22:17 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

NOOOOOOOO Donna!!  He’ll have yee locked up in a fascist neo nazi yello
pinko redo hippy commune/jail in a second!!!!
(Please note, I’m just kidding here……)
(Now back to being a defensive junkie spouting bullshit, cos that’s all I
know how tah do!!! ;o)……I’m kidding, again!! Or am I……..????)

—–Original Message—–
From: nick227@tiscali.co.uk [mailto:nick227@tiscali.co.uk]
Sent: Monday, 31 January 2005 12:00 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]

Hey Donna, I’m not a twat! Really! You live over near Brighton somewhere?
Well, I get over there now and again. Let’s hang out a bit next time. Really
I’m not a twat and I don’t own a thesaurus! Check me out. love Nick

___________________________________________________________

Book yourself something to look forward to in 2005.
Cheap flights – http://www.tiscali.co.uk/travel/flights/
Bargain holidays – http://www.tiscali.co.uk/travel/holidays/

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Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
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Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: (OT) Re:ibo/cold turkey
Date: January 30, 2005 at 4:57:32 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Donna,
You wrote,

meth several times but just abused it<

I was lucky with methadone, as it did exactly what I wanted it to-gave me a break from the streets, enabled me to not be sick and to have pain relief (although that was not my intention when I began using it, not figuring out how effective it was for pain relief until I was getting off it), and to begin my writing and publishing work, not to mention begin and maintain a long term relationship which I’m now 8 years and 3 months into with no end in sight (KNOCK LOUDLY ON WOOD PLEASE). But when I decided I’d had enough, I got off of the stuff. I am fully supportive of methadone as yet one more tool to assist addicts to have somewhat of a semblence of life without stress and pain and bother. In my ideal world methadone wouldn’t be needed because people would be allowed to use heroin/opium/opiates, and more, without having to worry about getting off or else. But it’s not my ideal world, so until it is I am supportive of anything that reduces the harms that can and do accrue from some drug ABuse.

and the last time was the subutex, which worked but had so many emotioal problems i went  back to using.<

I’ve not had to go this route (again KNOCK LOUDLY ON WOOD PLEASE), thanks to the powers that be.

I came to this list in desparation to get off heroin I have tried cold turkey 3 times,<

It’s hard. Very, very hard. Cold turkey especially is tough. Getting off heroin is one of the very hardest things I’ve ever done (with the exception of tobacco). But I’m not off opiates personally, just not doing heroin. I wish you the very best in your endevours and travails, and hope you find a way to get yourself to a better, more peaceful place without too much turmoil and pain.
As it’s a sunny but extremely cold Sunday afternoon, perhaps some of you have a few minutes with nothing to do, so here’s a story about kicking cold turkey (a fairly long one actually), a chapter from my book Something in the Way, still unpublished but going through a major rewrite in hopes it does eventually get published by someone somewhere.
So please do enjoy. (My apologies if I’ve already posted this here before, but it’s not online with the other stories I have up at DrugWar.com from the book, and I can’t remember if I ever did send it to this list. If I did, again, please excuse my repeat posting- if not, enjoy the desperate misadventure.)
—–

Chapter 6-

The Return

I am not feeling well. As a matter of fact, having been in the air for just over nine hours now, it’s been more than twelve since I did my last shot, so I’m getting incredibly sick. I’m still able to operate and appear outwardly normal, but I can tell already that this time the withdrawals are going to be unlike any I’ve gone through yet in my career as a strung-out junky and hard core drug abuser.

I’d finished the last of my dope on the tube out to Heathrow airport in London, confident that I’d be able to handle the sickness I knew would be arriving sooner than later. When making my decision to return to the US to be with my girlfiend, I’d promised her I’d forgo the drugs, the shooting and smoking of hard narcotics. My journey was going to end I was not sure where yet, because the night before on the phone, my girlfiend had mentioned going back to school and having to find a place on campus to live, miles away from NYC itself. Not the easiest place to score those drugs I prefer, she’s made sure to tell me, so I’ve been figuring this will only make it easier for me to kick. I’d made to sure to get ahold of at least a score of Valium 10s, which I’m hoping will help soothe the pains of miseries of dope sickness, and perhaps ease the worst of the withdrawals.

Now the plane has landed in Newark, New Jersey, back in my own country after a two year hiatus. I get off the plane and collect my bags. In my shoulder bag, I’m carrying a cassette tape inside of which I’ve filled with hashish, good, black soft hash. I’d unscrewed the two halves of the cassette, placed the hash inside, then screwing it shut, gluing a piece of the cassette tape across the bottom of the cassette to make it appear to be a whole, complete tape. I’ve used this method for carrying hashish across many borders over the years, and this time is yet another successful smuggling attempt. I’m glad too, as I’m going to need the hash in addition to the Valiums, to medicate myself.

As I pick up my bags, I see a cop come around the corner leading a drug dog, a small beagle, which completely ignores me and my bag. At the Customs desk itself, I breeze right through into the land of my birth, receiving nothing but friendly greetings and welcomes from the Customs officials. This is a first for me, more used to getting at least a once over search if not the complete “strip naked while we throw out all your luggage onto the counter” type searches.

I pass into the main hall of the airport, searching everywhere for my girlfiend, eventually spotting her braids bobbing along at most people’s waist level. At four feet, eleven inches tall, she is a tiny but fiery woman, with long brown curly hair she wears in dread-like braids. We hug and kiss hello, but something is off. I’m not sure what it is, but there’s a feeling, an energy or vibe coming off her that has me feeling nervous. Rapidly descending into the blackness and depression of full-on dope withdrawals, I decide this is what I’m feeling and this alone, so try to put it out of my mind.

Taking the smaller of my two bags, she leads me through the crowded airport to catch a bus into the city. I take a deep breath.

“Holy shit, it’s cold!” Beginning of February, the North East US is experiencing the coldest Winter in something like 90 years, and I’ve landed right smack dab in the middle of it, without any much needed heroin. I dig another sweater out of a bag.

We take the bus to Grand Central Station in the middle of Manhattan. I’m beginning to have trouble even moving, the withdrawals leaving me feeling drained, weak, and particularly susceptible to the cold. I get shivers and chills if dope sick even in front of a fireplace, so now I’m feeling the cold down to my bones, and I’m growing ever more miserable. My girlfiend leads me into a diner next door to the station.

“Wait here, I’m going to make a phone call, check the schedule and buy us tickets,” she says, then runs off, leaving me there with just enough cash for a cup of coffee, which I don’t really want. I wait there for nearly an hour, a foreshadowing of things to come. I get worried eventually, having heard so many stories about how dangerous and violent NYC is, about all the freaks and madmen who make the city their home, who’d all love to get their hands on such a petite beauty as my girlfiend. She finally makes a reappearance.

“I got our tickets, but before we get on the train to White Plains, we gotta talk,” she tells me.

“Train tickets? You mean we gotta take another train?”

“And a bus,” she tells me. “Are you listening to me? This is important. I need to say something to you.”

“Oh great, fucking perfect, here it comes, whatever it is,” I think to myself, trying to brace for whatever bad news is coming.

“I have gone ahead and reenrolled in school, so I won’t be going with you to San Francisco,” she says, very business like and cold. “I want you to go on without me. I need to concentrate on my studies and just can’t handle you being around to distract me.” She looks away for a moment, then continues. “I almost did a ‘runner’ on you just now, when I went to get the tickets, but decided I do still want to spend some time with you, at least a week or so, before you take off.”

I sit there starting at her without comment for a good few minutes. I do not want to risk opening my mouth and letting her have it right there in the diner. I feel like I might explode and want to keep control, give myself a little time to think and catch my breath before responding. She’d mentioned the reenrolling thing on the phone, but that I should still come back to the US and NY, that she missed me and couldn’t wait to see me. Now, a little less than 24 hours later, me sick and only wanting to lie down and sleep, or better yet get straight, this is not the best time or place to tell me these details. I feel like she could have said something before I boarded a flight and left my entire life for the previous year behind. At least in London I’d been making decent money, had a fantastic heroin connection, and a roof over my head. Now I have nothing and am utterly dependent on this woman for now as I have nothing and have nowhere to get out of the cold but with her.

Suddenly it seems as though she take note for the first time that I am not feeling so well, and jumps to her feet.

“Come on, let’s go catch the train. We’ve got a ways to go yet before we reach the campus.” She snatches up the little bag again and leads the way to the train which will take us to White Plains, where we will catch yet another bus for another 45 minutes ride to Purchase. I’m having trouble focusing on anything, much less sitting upright and being civil. I surprise myself by resisting mentioning my desire in the diner, my absolute need to cop a bag while we were still in the city, and once again, as with my decision not to ask Paul before leaving London, I soon regret my decision to skip the attempt at getting more dope in me. I’ve completely uprooted myself from familiar surroundings, flung myself into a massive change, determined to make it as difficult as possible for myself it seems.

Outside the train, signs of how cold it is are everywhere. Huge chunks of ice float in the Hudson river, just visible in the moonlight as the train thunders over a bridge, and snow is piled in towering drifts in all directions. It was cold in London, but nothing like this. This has to be the coldest I’ve ever been in my entire short life. I’m sitting inside a warm train, bundled into almost every bit of extra clothing I can pull out of my bags, but each time the doors open at a stop, an Arctic blast of freezing cold air hits me in my seat. Gazing out the window, all I can make out is white, broken occasionally by glittering, pointy ice sickles hanging from every tree, reflecting the lights from the train in prismatic, chaotic colors as the train speeds past.

Pulling into White Plains forty minutes later, I’m seriously ailing. I’m not getting sick anymore, I am sick. My girlfiend leads the way to the bus stop, to undertake the forty-five minute bus ride out to SUNY Purchase campus. I’m huddled into myself, trying to no avail to get warm. I’m freezing inside my bones, and can’t ever remember not being cold. At the same time I’m freezing, I’m sweating profusely, which is freezing to my skin underneath my layered clothing, further torturing me. The bus finally arrives and I climb aboard, thankful to finally be out of the wind.

Shaking hard but doing a fair job of hiding it in the dark of the bus, I shiver under my large wool military coat. I’ve already eaten four of the 12 or so Valium I have, the ones that are supposed to help me get through the worst of the withdrawals. At the rate I’m going through them, I’m not going to have any left by the time I reach the worst of it, if I’m not already there, which I sadly, and correctly it later turns out, suspect is the case. The bus ride feeling twice as long as it really is, we eventually reach the campus. I can’t see much except trees, and a whole lot of snow when we disembark, but my girlfiend leads the way into the dark and I follow meekly behind. Slipping and sliding along the ice-coated walkway, I can barely keep my feet I’m shaking so hard on the icy surface. I just keeping repeating, mantra-like, “I can make it, I can make it,” to myself as we creep along.

The pathway winds out of the trees into a complex of apartment buildings. My girlfiend turns right at the third building and we climb the stairs up to the second floor, where she knocks on one of the two upper floor apartments’ doors, then enters with me close behind, anxious to get in out of the cold.

While on the bus, she had explained to me that she has yet to find campus housing, as she’d enrolled after the semester had already begun, almost two weeks late. She’d had to ask a couple of old acquaintances from her first couple of years at Purchase if she and I may crash for a few days, until we find more permanent housing. The longest resident of the apartment, a big guy named Bob, studying criminal justice and aspiring to be a cop, gave his ok until something else comes up. Not having met me when he made this decision, it’s obvious he’s having immediate second thoughts when laying eyes upon me.

I’m emmatiatedly thin, my face gaunt and drawn from my hard living and my withdrawals. I’ve been living less than a step off the streets, my clothes are a uniform color of gray, and I no doubt stand out in this brightly lit, student-filled apartment. There’re a couple of young guys sitting at a table on the far side of the small room, and another couple of guys sprawled on the sofa watching tv. Everyone there except me is clean, fresh faced and healthy. I’m introduced to everyone and miss most of the names, then we sit next to the front door on the end of the sofa, so again, as on the train I’m hit with a blast of freezing Winter air each time the door to the apartment next to me opens and some student comes in or out. Now I’m not wearing my coat though, making it even worse.

By now I am utterly miserable, yet unable to give in and drop to the floor in a heap of quivering shaking flesh. I must grin and bear it for now, though I am sure my misery is blatantly obvious to everyone present. I make an attempt to hang out to relax, to ignore the nausea and shakes. The two guys sitting next to me make banal small talk that I’m totally uninterested in hearing. Bored and sick out of my mind, I pull out the hash-filled cassette and ask Bob if he’s got a screwdriver.

I figure there’s no better way to break the ice with college students than by breaking out and smoking hashish with them. All are appreciative and impressed by the taste of, and high from, the hash. After a couple of joints, rolled the European way, mixing hash with tobacco, everyone relaxes, except me. Even Bob begins to thaw a bit towards me, but I can see in his eyes and demeanor he still has reservations about me.

It’s not much longer before I cannot take anymore socializing. “I’ve got to lay down Bob. Where are we sleeping, please?”

“Hey, no problem,” Bob says as he climbs to his feet. “Help me pull this.” He takes hold of one end of the sofa, chasing those sitting there off for a moment, and he and I pull it away from the wall a few feet. He grabs a mattress leaning against the wall and drops it to the floor behind the sofa, right there in the living room where everyone is still making no signs to leave. “I hope you don’t mind the lights on,” says Bob with an evil little grin.
He has no idea that this is still luxury living to me.

Unfortunately, there is steady traffic in and out of the apartment for hours, which keeps the Arctic air on me. I’m so sick now that each move I make makes me want to throw up. My skin is alternately on fire and freezing cold, and I can’t stop sweating, soaking the sheet beneath me. The Valiums I’ve so far taken aren’t helping me sleep at all. I can hear snatches of conversations as I drift in and out of lucidity, both from the students and from Oliver Stone’s film, “The Doors,” now playing on the tv. I distinctly hear Jim Morrison tell Pamela to get out and to not forget her heroin. “I won’t” I mumble in my delirium, right there in the film with the characters and their drugs.

I lie there for I don’t know how many hours, drifting in my state of hell. Then I’m jerked to full awareness by my girlfiend shaking me.

“Come on, get up, we gotta get out of here,” she says. “Bob needs the apartment, ’cause a bunch of people are coming over to study and he can’t have someone tossing and turning and mumbling the whole time behind his sofa. It’s distracting.”

So the room’s been privy to my suffering. I don’t care. I’m feeling like shit, and don’t care less what Bob nor his friends think of me now. But I’ve no choice in the matter, I have to go with her out of the apartment. Before we leave, I have to race to the toilet because my bowels are loose and I have the runs, one of the worst parts of kicking heroin for me.

My girlfiend leads the way through the night, across campus over an unending sheet of ice and snow. I just want to lie down, right here in the snow and go nowhere, but I manage to keep to my feet, trudging grudgingly along behind her. It’s snowing hard, making the going a total Eskimo Hell even more slippery than it was earlier, but we eventually arrive at a garage-like building, climbing up a narrow metal staircase and entering through what looks like the back door.

We’re now in the cafeteria building, which at night houses the student bar, where my girlfiend introduces me to the red haired, heavily tattooed bartender, Mike. I proceed to ask Mike for a pitcher, for myself. I take it to a table where I sit by myself the rest of the long evening, popping one Valium after another until they are all gone, drinking them down with pitcher after pitcher, finishing off four of them almost entirely by myself in the three hours we are there at the bar. I’m trying desperately to escape the withdrawals, but it’s no good. I cannot get away from myself, so now I’m blind drunk and still completely sick too. We finally leave, thinking it must be late enough that the study session has ended.

Outside on the ice again I fall repeatedly, my girlfiend bitching and snapping at me the entire way. I haven’t stopping thinking all night what an incredibly stupid idea this was, to come back here to the US. My girlfiend is acting like a total stranger, completely different from the girl I’d known in London. There she’d been a friendly, compassionate young woman, not this evil troll she’s been since my return. She knows what I’m going through right now, that I’m kicking a very serious, over-a-gram-a-day-of-good-heroin habit, because she’d been with me the previous six months and gone right through it with me, though not doing nearly the amounts I’ve been doing. She hadn’t done enough for long enough to catch more than a mild chippy, but she’s lived close enough to not only me but many other addicts as well, close enough to know what withdrawals are and how bad they can be. She’s even seen me go through it before in London, though I had a bottle of methadone there to help me get through the bad parts. Now she’s acting like she had no idea that was part of the bargain, that by my coming here I was definitely putting myself knowingly into a situation where I was without question having to go through kicking a heavy dope habit and it was to be with her I was doing it.

Back at Bob’s I drop to the mattress, grateful for the respite from the troll. Sleep will be a blessed relief. With all the Valiums and the beer, I expect to fall asleep no matter how sick I am. For normal people this would be the case, but I’m far from normal when it comes to drugs and tolerances to those drugs. All I seem to have accomplished with all the pills and alcohol is to remove my ability to focus my eyes and to give myself the spins, on top of being in withdrawals. When I finally do pass out, it’s lightly, fitfully, and nowhere near as deep a sleep as I need.

I go in and out of dreams, strange and terrible dreams, vision of shooting up, or trying to shoot up but not finding my vein no matter how many time I stick myself, missing the vein when I finally give up and push in the plunger. In one I’ve got the money but can’t find the dealer, then I’m running from the person I robbed for the money. Then I’m dreaming I’m in London, back in the squat. In my dream I get up to relieve myself, using one of the old glass milk bottles I keep by the door for just this purpose, so I don’t have to go downstairs through the cold building to the only toilet a floor below. There’s something distinctly wrong, but peeing is such a relief I don’t think about it, I just go.

“Hey man, Yo! Get the Fuck Up!”

I bolt upright out of sleep and into a real nightmare. My body feels like it’s going haywire, my muscles jumping and twitching, on fire and hurting. To top if off I’m soaking wet with sweat, and my girlfiend is shrieking at me.

“You tried to piss in a coke bottle and peed all over the living room carpet by the front door, you ass!” She’s beside herself with anger, because Bob had come back to one of the back rooms to tell her what was happening. Apparently, I’d suddenly risen to my knees behind the sofa and, paying no attention to Bob and the other people still awake and studying in the room, had grabbed a bottle and begun to pee, all over the floor, my hands and the wall and door. Then I’d laid back down behind the sofa.

I’d thought that dream was a little too real. Now I’m embarrassed on top of everything else. So much for worrying about my reputation. I don’t know what to do, so I just stand there, until my girlfiend pushes me to the restroom and throws some clothes at me.

“Get changed, and I’ll clean up,” she tell me as she slams the door in my face. After I change, I go back out to the living room where Bob and my girlfiend are now the only ones in the room.

“I’m sorry, jetlag you know,” I try to explain, but Bob just waves me off.

“Don’t worry about it,” he grunts at me.

I lay back down on the now clean mattress, and with my legs and arms pulled up under my body to keep the muscles from kicking, I finally fall back into a restless sleep. In the morning no one says anything to me so I stay under the blankets, shivering and shaking and trying not to moan out loud, delirious but in enough control to manage remaining quiet while feeling like hell. The day slowly turns into night then back into day. As soon as it is light out, I wake my girlfiend and tell her to give me the 50 pound note I’d given her in London to bring with her to the States for me. She doesn’t want to, arguing with me for a while but I prevail, telling her I’m only going to go to White Plains and exchange it into dollars. After she leaves for the first class of the day, I ask around the apartment for directions, asking where to go in NYC to buy weed.

“I can get you excellent pot here,” Bob tells me. “Why go all the way to the city when you can get it here?” He’s giving me a funny look.

“I’ve never been to NYC before,” I tell him. “I want to do this for the adventure.” It sounds kind of lame when I say it, but do I really care what this fat cop-wannabe thinks? No, I don’t. The real reason I want to know where to buy pot is because I think the people selling pot on the streets more likely than not know where I can score some heroin. One of the benefits of prohibition is the mingling of drugs, harmless pot sold alongside hardcore powders.

“Washington Square Park is where the pot is. Go there and ask around, someone will know someone who has it. You’ll know who to ask, you’ll see.”

“Thanks,” I say as I go out the door. I catch the bus to White Plains and exchange the money, then take a train to Manhattan. At Grand Central Station I ask how to get downtown to somewhere near Washington Square, and end up exiting the subway at Astor Place. I ask for directions, then head towards the park, until I spot an older black guy, sitting in the garden of an apartment building smoking what looks exactly like a joint.

“Hey, excuse me.” I walk right up to the guy. “I’m not a cop. I am really dope sick. I just got here from London and need to buy some heroin. Where do I get it? Washington Square?” I figure if anyone knows it’s going to be this obviously homeless guy, sitting here smoking pot with a bunch of bags strewn around him.

“No way man, avoid that park like the plague,” he barks. “Those boys will rip you off in a second. Head over to Alphabet City man, Aves. C and D, and Fourth Street. Not this neighborhood. Head East,” The old man points, “into the Lower East Side.”

Thanking him I head the direction he pointed, taking Broadway to Fourth Street, then take a left towards the East Side. It’s one of the coldest Winters NYC had experienced in a hundred years. I’ve heard students at Purchase say this more than once and believe it. The sidewalks are almost completely iced over. There are snow banks along each side of Fourth St., under which I can just make out the occasional tire or bumper. I hold my coat closed with my arms folded across my chest, my eyes looking down as I slither my way East. Each block seems a mile long, the ice and continuing withdrawals sapping what little strength I have left. I force myself to go on. Reaching Ave B. I turn right, and begin spotting signs that lead me to think I must be getting close. Dilapidated buildings and shady characters began to take precedence, no more nice, well kept buildings and sidewalks here. At the Corner of Second St and Ave. B I spot two guys across the street, leaning against the wall drinking beer, one black guy and a Hispanic cat. Taking a deep breath, I cross over.

“Hey, excuse me,” I start again. “I’m not a cop, but I am really very dope sick. I just got here from London and need to cop a bag of gear. Do you know anywhere? Someone else directed me this far, but now I need a little help. I know this is forward, but I don’t know anyone so I have to ask.”

The Hispanic guy looks at me like I’m crazy then turns and walks away without a word. The black guy stays.

“How ‘about some Silver Bullet?” he asks.

“What?” I think it’s some kind of threat at first, some kind of NYC slang I’ve never heard before.

“Dope m’man, it’s a brand name. Come on. This way.”

I follow him further south along Ave. B, then Clinton, what Ave. B becomes after crossing south of Houston. Almost everyone passing on the walk is speaking Spanish. We walk another three blocks, until my guide points up a single flight of stairs to a landing where stands a young man wearing a ski mask and bulky jacket. I check out the mask, then turn back to my guide, but the guy is already walking away, not waiting for a thank you or a goodbye. I turn back to the figure at the top of the step.

“How many?” the kid asks.

“Just one,” I tell him, holding out my only $10 bill. Taking the plastic rectangle offered, I have no way of knowing if this is real or not. I have to trust that it is, that I haven’t been ripped off. Now to find a needle. I only have a few more dollars and my return ticket to Purchase. Fifty pound didn’t convert to that many dollars, just enough to get me to the city and back and to buy one $10 bag. I walk back over to Houston St., searching for anyone who might know where I can buy a rig. The first person I ask laughs at me.

“Why would you buy one when you can go around the corner to the Exchange and get one for free?” he asks. “Ave C. and 4th St.” he tells me, pointing up the street behind me. I’m feeling like I’ve already walked miles, much further than I ever would while feeling healthy, much less while as sick as I am now. There’s no alternative but to continue on, so I do, slogging through the cold and wind. I reach Ave. C and turn left, heading North again, looking for a place that looks like a needle exchange. Back in Amsterdam the Exchange I’d used was mainly a hole in a door through which I’d hand my used sets and receive new ones. In Atlanta, where I was living before heading to the Nederlands, I’d simply walk into a particular pharmacy and buy a 10-pack of 1cc Insulin syringes. I didn’t know needle exchanges even existed in the US. I eventually see a spot, a storefront from which issue a steady stream of lowlife types, so I figure, correctly as it turns out, that it must be the place.

Just inside the door to the left is a table under which sits a huge tub, into which clients drop their used rigs before claiming new ones from the volunteer behind the tub. Further down the line sit plastic baggies filled with all the accoutrements need to prepare a shot-plastic bags with cookers, cotton, alcohol and bleach-as well as literature about how to protect oneself from disease and bad drugs.

“Ever been here before?” A voice stops me as I make a move towards the table. “You gotta sign in first.” All I want to do it get my needle and go get straight, but I keep my cool. It can’t take that long. “It’ll only take a moment to register,” says the man speaking to me from behind another table to the right of entering the door.

“Let’s get it over with. I’m sick as a dog and have to get straight as soon as I can,” I tell the guy. My stomach is churning. This is often the very worst time for any heroin addict, the time between scoring and actually getting my drugs inside me, especially since I shoot most of my drugs, I rarely smoke or sniff them any more. I’m hunched over, clutching my abdomen tightly, trying to get warm and not shit my pants. The guy takes my details, prints and laminates an Exchange card that is supposed to protect me from arrest for possession of a hypodermic instrument. I ask him about the local dope, whether I need lemon juice or not to melt down my heroin.

“No, no lemon juice, but listen, be extra careful pushing the shot in, because some of the dope around here is very strong,” he tells me as he hands me my brand new needle exchange card.

“Thank God,” I think to myself. “I hope to hell the dope’s incredibly fucking strong, you moron.” I leave the Exchange, skating West, sliding along the icy sidewalk as fast as I can go, looking for a bar or restaurant, anywhere I can go to get in out of the public eye and finally get straight. I still haven’t found a good place when I reach Ave. A. There I spot a likely looking little bar called Psycho Mongo, a veritable hole in the wall. Going in I order a soda and ask where the toilet is. I have just enough cash for a drink, then go to the restroom.

Closing the door, I find the toilet is lit with a black light, something I discover later a lot of the bars do to discourage just this sort of activity. It doesn’t stop or even slow me down. I tear open the plastic packet, pulling out the wax envelope inside, which I in turn tear open as well. I’m shaking so hard I almost spill it everywhere when trying to pour out the contents into my cooker, but luckily manage ok. I look at the heroin in the bottom of the cooker, but in this light I can’t make out what color it is, or even how much there is. It sure doesn’t look like much. I’m used to doing quarter gram shots at a time, and this is definitely a lot less than that, not more than a tenth of a gram at most. I don’t care, so long as it’s real. I dab my finger at the edge of the small pile of drugs, putting it to the tip of my tongue to taste. The bitter taste tells me right away that it is real, though how cut with filler I can’t tell from just tasting. It doesn’t matter at this point. I quickly mix in the water and heat it with my lighter. One thing that makes this easier than in London is that I don’t need lemon juice, the dope melts into the water without it, just like the guy back at the Exchange explained it to me. I drop a small piece of rolled up cotton into the mixture, draw it up into my rig, then take my left arm out of my jacket and sweater sleeves. Using the now empty sweater sleeve to tie off just above my elbow, I feel for the vein in the dark, placing the tip of the needle to the place I can feel with my fingertip. A quick jab, a slight pull on the plunger to get blood into the rig, to be sure I’ve hit ok, then I shove it in as fast as I can push. Loosening the sweater quickly, to avoid blowing my vein, I sit down on the toilet and heave a sigh of relief.

I can feel it coursing through my body, the heroin unclenching and untwisting the knots in my muscles. The rush stops short of what I’d really like, but that’s to be expected. My drugs are seldom as strong as I really would like them to be. I rarely get what I want out of my drugs, just like out of the rest of my life. If I put as much energy into living as I do into my drugging, I could probably accomplish something.

I shake of these melancholy feelings, happy to finally be straight. I don’t think about later, because that’ll just depress me again. I’m not as fucked up as I’d like, but I’m no longer feeling sick, at least until tomorrow but that’s just some other time, to quote Lou Reed.

When I return to Purchase, I still feeling good. I hope my pupils aren’t too noticeably pinned. I know my eyes are a dead giveaway to anyone who knows me or about dope at all, so therefore try to avoid eye contact for the rest of the evening. I hang out making small talk with various students in the living room, until it’s just me, Bob and my girlfiend left. Bob keeps watching me with a glint in his eye, obviously wondering about something. While discussing my adventures that day in the city, I mention having seen some really far out sculptures while walking up Ave B. in Alphabet City, Bob’s face registers a thought that he doesn’t express aloud. He just nods to himself as though I’ve confirmed something to him. I’m not even really sure I see the nod it passes so fast.

Before retiring for the night, I grab the paper bag in which I’m carrying all my rigs and equipment, going into the bathroom to finish the tiny amount of dope I have left in the bag. Then I go to bed.

The next day I go back into White Plains with my girlfiend, who is mad that I went into the city and bought dope, more mad that I didn’t share any with her. I’ll never please this woman I think. I’m able to move around today without wanting to throw up the whole time, but I’m still quite ill. Still unable to get any sleep at night, I toss and turn, the kicking feeling worst when lying down. The girlfiend has taken to kicking and hitting me throughout the night, telling me to “keep the fuck still” and other loving niceties. I’m tired and cranky and would rather remained lying on the floor at least one more day on campus before venturing out on another adventure.

We aimlessly wander around downtown White Plains for a while, making a half-hearted attempt to find some dope to no avail. Giving up finally, we board the bus back to Purchase. We get in to Bob’s right away, just beating a new snow storm.

A few minutes after entering, Bob comes out of his bedroom and asks the girlfiend to come talk with him in his room, alone, right away. I sit down on the mattress behind the sofa as she walks off with Bob to the back of the apartment. Lifting my duffle bag, I notice it’s open, and I could swear I’d closed it before we left, sure of it because the paper bag containing my rigs is in there. I’m suddenly sure what Bob is talking to the girlfiend about. I don’t want to believe it, but my stomach immediately drops. I know exactly what Bob thinks of heroin and those who use it, particularly “shooters” as Bob had referred to another old acquaintance of his and my girlfiend. If this is what the problem is though, why is Bob discussing it with my girlfiend and not me?

“This is not good,” I think as I change my clothes. The minutes drag by and still no girlfiend. I am about to go knock on the door and ask what’s up when she finally appears, her face drawn and tight, red with anger.

“Come on, we’ve gotta go talk somewhere,” she barks as she grabs her own jacket and heads out the door. “Grab your fucking jacket and let’s go!”

Embarrassed now, and still not entirely sure of what’s happening, I do as she says, following her out into the snow storm currently dropping another foot of snow on the campus.

“Bob doesn’t want you staying in the apartment any more,” she tells me as we work out way through the wind. “He says that if I want to I can stay, but you have to go, now, tonight.” She’s angry, and I’m glad to see she angrier at Bob than at me. “I told him you were kicking, and had come here expressly to do so, but he doesn’t care. He says that when moving our stuff around while cleaning up the apartment today, that paper bag with you rigs fell out on the floor. So they took a look inside it, and now he wants you gone. He doesn’t care that you’re quitting and doesn’t believe it anyway. He says he saw you going into the bathroom with the bag last night. Why, if you’re quitting, did you do that, he asked me. So you have to go tonight.”

The wind is brutal, blowing the snow directly at them from all directions, making us both extremely uncomfortable and very aware of the immediate problem at hand. Where am I going to sleep tonight? And the next night, and the night after? I don’t know anyone on campus except my girlfiend, other than for those I’ve met at Bob’s. I have already garnered that reputation I’ve been so concerned about up to now.

“Let’s go to the library,” she says, grabbing my hand. She leads and I follow, lost in thought, once more trying to not panic and get angry at things I cannot control, nor change now.

This wasn’t how I’d envisioned my return to the US. I’d more imagined that I’d meet up with my girlfiend, stay wherever it was that she’d have found for us in the four days she’d had prior to my own return, and that I’d lay up in bed kicking in peace and quiet before having to tackle any of life’s other complications. But my best laid plans are often for naught. Somehow I’m now facing sleeping out in the cold and snow, only my third night back in the States. I have no money, no friends, no place to crash. “What in the hell am I doing back here?” I wonder silently. It’s difficult not to give in to major regrets. If I could turn around and go back to London I’d do it in a heartbeat. I’d tuck my tail between my legs and take off running, admitting defeat. I’ve got nowhere to run though, nowhere to go to get away from my troubles, to escape, so I have to tough it out. I feel damned.

We continue toward the library, walking into the wind the entire way, my tears of frustration mingling with those torn from my eyes by the wind. We find the library open and almost deserted. Who would bother heading out in this weather anyway? We make our way downstairs, to a long row of closet-like cubicles, where we can find a bit of privacy. My girlfiend steps into one, throws all her stuff on the floor within, then tells me to wait there for a minute. I ease myself onto the floor and cover up with my jacket. I can’t believe this is happening to me.

I’m almost asleep when she returns, carrying an armload of oversized atlases, encyclopedias, and other large books, which she stacks up in front of the cubicle window.

“I used to come sleep in here my first year at Purchase,” she tells me, “to get away from everyone, to kind of hide out and get my bearings. We should be ok here until closing time at least.”

“Great. Then what?” I wonder to myself, but don’t voice my concerns. There’s no reason to piss her off at this point. But am I supposed to live in the library? “Phantom of the Library” passes through my mind, and I giggle out loud. I picture myself lurking about the library shelves, hiding from staff and students, stealing bag lunches and such, and really start to laugh out loud. She turns to me with a “shh” but I can’t help myself and keep laughing. The ridiculousness of my situation has me in hysterics. She starts to laugh along with me, not knowing what she’s laughing about but enjoying the release of tension none the less. We sit there on the floor, laughing together until we’re almost weeping.

Once we regain control, we curl up together in the corner under the desk inside the cubicle, trying to be as quiet as possible, although that’s probably useless considering the laughter we’ve been doing the past few minutes. As I try to lie still, my muscles once again begin to kick, and I start rolling around, unable to keep still for more than a couple of seconds. This drives my girlfiend crazy, right back into her “ultra bitch” state.

“Keep the fuck still!” She orders, punching me a couple of times to let me know she means it. I loose my temper in return, telling her to “leave off and shut the fuck up.” Pissed off and hateful, we both eventually pass out.

Hours later, she shakes me awake. “Get your stuff, we gotta get out of here.” There’s no one else in the library now other than the librarian at the front desk, who gives us the eye as we exit the building. She walks us over to the computer building, where we find an open classroom. She tells me to sleep in here for the rest of the night, and tomorrow we’ll come up with something else.

“Wait a minute,” I say. “Why am I putting myself through this? This is crazy. I’m out of here tomorrow.”

“What do you mean, you’re ‘outta here’?” she asks, suddenly quiet.

“I mean, I’m out of here. We were supposed to be going to California together, remember? Well, I’m sick of this shit here. I’m going, first thing tomorrow.” I’m adamant. I don’t care if it is the middle of Winter, I can’t take this hell I’ve landed in. I’ve been told many time by many different folk that San Francisco is my Mecca, that I’d thoroughly enjoy that city and would fit right in.

“Are you nuts?” She asks. “How are you going to get there?”

“I’ll hitchhike. What do you care anyway?” I glare at her. She’s the reason I’m here having all these problems, I think to myself, conveniently forgetting it was my decision to come back to the States, that no one, not even my girlfiend, put a gun to my head and forced me to undertake this misadventure.

“It’s the middle of Winter and you’re sick,” she says. “Besides, I don’t want you to leave yet, I love you. Wait until Spring at least, when the weather is nicer. Then go.”

I can’t believe I’ve just heard this correctly. I stand there speechless for a minute or two, staring at her with my mouth ajar. Then I let my shoulders slump and shake my head.

“Get out of here,” I tell her. “I’ll see you in the morning, right?”

“Yeah, sure. Don’t do anything stupid, like leave campus without telling me, ok?”

“Sure,” I answer. I turn my back as she leaves, then lie down on the floor under yet another desk, hopefully out of view of anyone or any guards passing in the hallway outside the classroom. There’s an entire security force of guards that patrol the campus, but if any pass that night I’m totally unaware of them.

I wake early the next morning when the lights suddenly go on. Someone enters the room with a cacophony of clattering and clanking. Rolling over, I climb to my feet to confront a wide-eyed and very surprised janitor.

“Hi there and good morning,” I tell him before bending back down to grab my stuff, then head out the door.

The dope sickness still has not passed, though I am getting stronger and a wee bit better. Still, I’m miserable and depressed. There has to be some way to get some relief. My mind is focused entirely on this thought. My girlfiend has some class very early this morning, so I won’t see her for a couple more hours. I don’t know why she didn’t wake me before going to class. Even with all the anger and the hitting, she’s the only friend I have right now. We’ve been in a relationship for just over six months at this point. To my perspective, we’ve got some history to our relationship, so I’m loath to give up just like that.

I’m not stopping to wonder about it. I have come up with a plan, and I’m glad she is in class because I don’t think she’d like this one. I walk to the campus store. It’s mostly empty of students, and the clerk is busy reading a magazine when I enter. She says, “Good morning” when I enter and then ignores me, burying her face back in the glossy pages of the fashion rag she’s reading. I’m not sure if they’re going to have what I’m looking for, but sure enough, at the very back of the store, in one of the only places out of the clerk’s line of sight, there sits all the cold medicines. Without checking to be sure no one is watching, I reach out, grab a box of Nyquil Cold Medicine capsules, put it in my jacket pocket, then go to the counter and order a cup of coffee. I can afford that, even if I have to steal the cold medicine.

Nyquil has something or other in it that helps people sleep, so I figure that perhaps it’ll help me my body’s muscles settle down somewhat. I go back to the still deserted library to find a quiet spot to carry out my plan. Going downstairs, I enter the bathroom and lock myself into a stall. I take out my paper bag containing all my works and equipment, then open up the box of Nyquil. Laying everything out on the lid of the toilet, I then open the box, ripping a couple of the green gel caps inside from their wrapping. They feel so soft and fragile when I squeeze them between thumb and forefinger, but when I try to break one open, the outer shell doesn’t do anything other than bend inwards without breaking. “Great, now what?” I think to myself in frustration. I’ve got my mind set on doing this and am not about to just give up. I root around in my duffle bag for a moment until I find a razor blade. Holding one of the gel caps steady between my fingers on the toilet seat lid and proceed to try and cut it open. It seems for a moment this too won’t work, but then it gives. The blade cuts almost all the way through the gel cap, causing me to almost loose the contents all over the lid of the toilet, but I save it. Picking up both halves, I pour the contents into my cooker, the repeat the process with a couple more gel caps. I then add about ten mils of water to the goo in my cooker. Then I heat it, stirring with the back of my rig, heating and reheating and adding teeny amounts of water, trying to dilute the gook in the cooker. I finally decide it’s as ready as it’s ever going to be, then drop a small piece of cotton into the mix. Taking a set, I draw the pink, gooey muck up into my rig. It takes a long time, and I look at the end results a bit dubiously. It resembles nothing so much as hair gel now, and I hesitate.

“What the hell, it’s already in my set.” I think to myself, then tie off. I find the vein quickly and boot it in. After untying and sitting back, my ears begin to ring a bit and my chest has a localized ache right about where I figure my heart must be, dead center of my chest. I don’t feel much of anything beyond this slight discomfort. This isn’t working as I’d hoped, so I forego a second try. I eat two of the gel caps instead of banging them, thinking that since I have them I may as well, that perhaps they’ll work better orally as they’re meant to be taken. I start to get jittery, then realize way too late that the Nyquil has pseudoephedrine in it, which is only increasing the sensations of kicking instead of muting them. Shit, yet another mistake on my part.

I walk out of the library into a crisp, bright Winter morning and sit on a bench in the cold, holding my head in my gloved hands, hoping the cold air will nullify my discomfort but it’s no good. I spend the morning in and out of the restroom throwing up, generally miserable and hating myself and my life.

That evening the girlfiend introduces me to some more friends of hers, room-mates of Mike the bartender I’d met the first night here. They have a bed in their living room and are ok with my sleeping there, so long as I promise to never, ever shoot up in their apartment. I readily agree. I’m sick to death of being cold and look forward to lying down in peaceful circumstances.

It takes another week for me to actually get a real night’s sleep, but the withdrawals do finally end. There are times when I suspect they won’t ever pass, but as with all bad times they do pass. I land a couple of jobs waiting tables in White Plains Mall for the rest of the semester, neither of which allow me to wear my facial jewelry and which both require ties, so I hate them both but they earn me some much needed cash. I spend the semester working and squatting on rent-free on the Purchase campus. I eventually meet a few other dopers on campus, who hook me up with the occasional ride into the city to score heroin, so I’m not by any stretch of the imagination clean, but I’m not strung out and it makes quite a bit of difference. But it doesn’t last long. When the semester eventually ends, we head into the city, she to an apartment and I to live on the streets of another big city, adrift again.
—–

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Mysterious Roots- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Explorations and Enigmas” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 3:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (OT) Re: [Ibogaine]

Hi preston

Yes there are a few palm trees along the seafront in brighton, I came to this list in desparation to get off heroin I have tried cold turkey 3 times, meth several times but just abused it and the last time was the subutex, which worked but had so many emotioal problems i went  back to using.

Love donna

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]
Date: January 30, 2005 at 3:13:14 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Donna,

It’s totally ok. The idea of not taking drugs can be very scarey for some people and your friend is bound to feel threatened if you are talking about getting off. It’s natural. About not being friends with her, I figure in this kind of situation best thing is to get really clear about what YOU need personally and make sure you’re not too worried about where she is. You come first.

Personally, I would say that it’s ok to self-administer ibogaine if you really can’t get anyone experienced to do a session with you. You do need to have blood and heart tests done first to make sure your body is strong enough. This is very important. If they are ok then you can try to just detox with ibogaine straight from being on heroin. You have to leave 12 hours or so from your last dose, longer if you’re using methadone. It’s also very important that you have someone with you, someone who cares about you, who knows how to get help if there’s an emergency, and who is prepared to stay with you in the room throughout the whole treatment which may be up to 2 days, sometimes even more. A test dose is also a good idea. There are a load of protocols – descriptions of how to do it – on my site at www.ibogaine.co.uk/treatment.htm under “Ibogaine Treatment Protocols.” There are about 6 of them so you can take your pick. Some are written a little more for people with medical experience. There’s one I wrote there which I tried to make simple and clear so you can check that out if you like.

It’s also a good idea, imo, to try and get yourself into rehab asap after coming down off ibogaine. If you can book a place before this is best. However, this is my just opinion and for a lot of other people that run sessions it’s not their way. So that bit’s really up to you.

OK, that’s what I can tell you for now. Let me know if you need more.

Lots of love

Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: AbbotAngel@aol.com [mailto:AbbotAngel@aol.com]
Sent: 30 January 2005 19:41
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]

Hi Nick

Me again I just wanted to say sorry again, I could really do with some advice from you or any one else on the list, I have a choice self administer ibogaine which someone who is really experienced has told me its not out of the question and really comes down to the individual ,(would you agree with that?) or do the subutex and then the ibogaine which another person who is really experienced in ibo treatment has said this is probably the best solution to my problem.  I really dont know what to do, Nick I feel awful and I can not appologise enough this so called mate of mine does not want me to get clean because she does not want to, and after this I am really wondering why I am mates at all.
love donna

From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]
Date: January 30, 2005 at 3:08:29 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Ekki
Thanks for that do you think I should use the root bark or the hcl (is that what its called) and i know i should taper down before hand and drink no coffee and lots of water and dont have any gear 20 hours before I take it. But do i just take it????? any advice i would really appreciate
love donna

From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]-Provider question: Free will vs. Addiction(OT)
Date: January 30, 2005 at 3:04:55 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 30/01/2005 19:51:42 GMT Standard Time, rwd3@cox.net writes:
Central question:   Is addiction a disease or illness that providers hope to
treat?

Interested in what you guys think????????????????

From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (OT) Re: [Ibogaine]
Date: January 30, 2005 at 3:01:32 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi preston

Yes there are a few palm trees along the seafront in brighton, I came to this list in desparation to get off heroin I have tried cold turkey 3 times, meth several times but just abused it and the last time was the subutex, which worked but had so many emotioal problems i went  back to using.

Love donna

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]-Provider question: Free will vs. Addiction
Date: January 30, 2005 at 2:59:02 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Preston !
I am going a bit out of the subject now, but do you believe for one moment
that our beautiful democraties are looking seriously in getting rid of drugz?<

LOL,
Nope, not at all Francis.
I often write that the entire War on Some Drugs and Users is not a failure whatsoever, not to those in the business of waging said war on some drugs and users. For those in the business of forcing others to bend to their will, this war on some drugs and users is a raging success. It’s enabled the powermongers and greedheads and self-righteous maniacs to gain power and prestige above and beyond any semblence of sanity. It’s enabled them to make boo-coo money and pit some segments of society against others, and enabled some to become ultra-descriminatory against other people and never even feel like there’s anything wrong with their prejudice and descrimination.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Mysterious Roots- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Explorations and Enigmas” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 2:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]-Provider question: Free will vs. Addiction

Hi Preston !
I am going a bit out of the subject now, but do you believe for one moment
that our beautiful democraties are looking seriously in getting rid of drugz
?

Look at the numbers :
The Sager-Socolar study claims pharmaceutical industry profits would
increase by $139 billion, or 38 percent, between 2006 and 2013.
Not bad 🙂

ADDICTED TO PROFIT : CAPITALISM AND DRUG
http://pubs.socialistreviewindex.org.uk/isj77/farrell.htm

God bless
Francis

—– Original Message —– From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 1:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]-Provider question: Free will vs. Addiction

Randy wrote >Have you ever met Preston? I have,
and maybe I’m just too sensitive, but I swear I could see the pain in his
face
when he had to move around. Does he or anyone else with as many pain
issues
as he has not have the right to try and make his life easier to deal
with?<

Thanks very much for pointing this out Randy.
I was again finding myself thinking about this whole thread this morning,
and Nick’s position. I’m very sick of reading Nick accusing me of making
excuses to be a junkie. For crying out loud, I think my wanting to be as
pain free as possible, considering I can barely freakin walk, or put my
right foot down on the ground, or sit at my desk and type, or feel the
skin
in much of my right leg and foot and beyond that numbness there’s just
excruciating pain, is very understandable, and something I don’t have to
make excuses for- nor do I have to or want to justify it, most
particularly
to someone like Nick.
I thank the powers that be for something like ibogaine, which might
very
well allow me to use opiates in much smaller amounts than might have been
necessary otherwise, that will allow me to keep my tolerance in check as I
continue to use opiates for my foreseeable future, maybe, if I can find a
steady supply over the next however many years I have left on the planet.
I’d personally be more than shocked if someone told me they’d only
sell
ibogaine to me if I was going to be using it only to get completely off
drugs, or with any stipulations whatsoever, and would be really upset with
someone is they refused to sell it to me or to anyone with this sort of
stipulation in mind.
And I keep coming back to the whole thing about ibogaine itself being
highly illegal and controversial in and of itself. I wonder what the
prohibitionist minded folk would think about your attitutde Nick, that
ibogaine is an ok drug to use but only to get others off drugs (am I ready
your position correctly here?)- they’d laugh in your face. It’s tough
enough
getting prohibition-deluded folk to accept methadone clinics (not my
preference, but in today’s horrific age and attitude a very necessary
avenue
to those not wanting to continue their lives running the streets dodging
cops but are not ready to stop “using” some sort of opiate.)

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Mysterious Roots- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
Civilizations,
Explorations and Enigmas” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: <BiscuitBoy714@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 10:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]-Provider question: Free will vs. Addiction

> Dr. Tom, I read your post the other day and didn’t have time to give it
> the
> thought that it deserves, I have time now. First off, I’m not a > provider
> but I
> know a few and I’d like to say something here. LOL I have to see that 4
> inch
> group offhand at 50 yards. I might be able to get 4 inch groups with a
> Ruger Mk
> II but with 2 hands and a rest. ‘Nuff’ jokin’, this is serious. This
issue
> needs to be addressed. When I had my treatment everyone, and I mean
> everyone
> wanted to know about my aftercare and plans for the future to the point
> that it
> irratated me. Turns out that they were right about therapy by the way.
> Nobody
> that I know of will treat anyone just to make it easier to get high.
This
> has
> probably been hashed out allready, I haven’t had time to read everthing
on
> the
> list for days now, but I have to say this. Have you ever met Preston? I
> have,
> and maybe I’m just too sensitive, but I swear I could see the pain in
his
> face
> when he had to move around. Does he or anyone else with as many pain
> issues
> as he has not have the right to try and make his life easier to deal
with?
> That’s not a decision I would make carte blanch (where the hell is the
> spell
> checker on this thing?) about anyone. Besides if I had my way Ibogaine
> would be
> legal and this would be a mute point. If I was a provider I would have
to
> take
> all things into consideration on an individual basis. To me, Ibogaine > is
> about
> the choices it gives you and the best route out of addiction that I
> personaly
> know of. I’ve been addicted off and on since the 70’s to oppiates. This
is
> the
> first time I have felt good about being clean since I shot Morphine > when
I
> was
> 15 years old. I didn’t really see how it could work for me but I tried
> anyway. It worked. How do we know who it will work for and who it > won’t?
> There is a
> screening process and I’d have to say that to the man everyone treated
> here of
> late in the NYC area truly wanted to get clean. I hope Preston doesn’t
> mind
> me saying this but I would imagine if he could have been clean AND free
of
> pain
> he probably would have loved it. That didn’t happen for him and I wish
it
> had. Ibogaine is medicine and should be treated that way. Oppiates are
> medicine
> too, just look at all those ‘scripts that get written for them. Dr.’s
give
> out
> an addictive substance all day long and the government won’t let people
> who
> want out of addiction have the single most effective way of dealing > with
> that
> addiction legaly obtain Ibogaine. That almost seems evil to me. There
> should be
> Ibogaine information in every Dr.’s office and Methadone clinic in the
US.
> I’m
> covering my end on that, how ’bout you? I’ve said it before and I’ll > say
> it
> again, I won’t shut up until every addict that I know of at least knows
> that
> there is another way out. I pay close attention to everything you say
and
> I’m
> glad that you brought this up. When I get back to the Catskills I’m
gonna’
> work
> on my one handed shot.hehehehe        Randy
>
>
>
>
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>
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>
>

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From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]
Date: January 30, 2005 at 2:57:38 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hello donna
i think self-administration is better than subutex.
why wait any longer?
you still can subutex if it doesn´t work.
also give some ibo to your so-called mate.
thats just my humble opinion, i´m no expert
love ekki

Am 30.01.2005 um 20:40 schrieb AbbotAngel@aol.com:

Hi Nick

Me again I just wanted to say sorry again, I could really do with some advice from you or any one else on the list, I have a choice self administer ibogaine which someone who is really experienced has told me its not out of the question and really comes down to the individual ,(would you agree with that?) or do the subutex and then the ibogaine which another person who is really experienced in ibo treatment has said this is probably the best solution to my problem.  I really dont know what to do, Nick I feel awful and I can not appologise enough this so called mate of mine does not want me to get clean because she does not want to, and after this I am really wondering why I am mates at all.
love donna

From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]-Provider question: Free will vs. Addiction(OT)
Date: January 30, 2005 at 2:50:58 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

this is off topic but may be relevant to some of the recent exchanges: it has nothing to do w/ ibo
the tools to segregate junkies from the rest of society are being perfected in the criminal justice system.  many states have enacted quasi criminal sanctions to sexual predators so that when they finish serving their sentence,  they are evaluated by a group of shrinks who have trouble getting a practice started elsewhere who in turn determine whether the offender is likely to offend again or fit to return to society.  if not fit,  the offender gets an extended stay in a “special” hospital for an indefinite period of time. once or if released,  the offender then must account for every move he or she makes,  many having to wear gps monitors.  bootstrap that with the anti terrorist laws and tools for law enforcement and there is an excellent blueprint for expanding the classes to fit into this model.  i don’t condone sexual predators or pedophiles but i have seen many a young adult get caught in this web for sexual conduct that was not even frowned upon a few decades ago.( e.g. 20 yr. old male having sex w/ 17 yr. old unmarried female w/o parental consent.). these offenders are marked, registered, and tracked relentlessly for the rest of their lives. many feel as though druggies are bad news, and some are,  that undermine our culture and harm others. easy to keep an eye on them with this method,  so everyone feels safe.  we all know that users lack compassion for his neighbor and would do anything for his/her next fix.  it would be nice to eliminate this threat from our communities. food for thought on an idle sunday. no personal opinion expressed.ron—– Original Message —– From: “tomo7” <tomo7@starband.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 2:48 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine]-Provider question: Free will vs. Addiction

Hi Team Mindvox:

I’ve enjoyed the concepts lately squeezed from Preston and Nick’s snarly
differences over libertarian defenses of junkie lifestyle choices.  Both are
great writers and probably lovely people. Do the providers have input on Ibo
as treatment for addiction to help return users to “health”, versus Ibo as
cool tool to help user down regulate freely chosen opiates as pain meds?  I
can see Preston’s point about “nobody gonna mess with my choice to use
because I’m free” (sorry for abbreviated words in mouth, here), and I can
see Nick’s provocative fascist wake-up call to pull the covers off all the
self medicated sleepy minions of Morphia. That side sounds pretty wicked and
unpleasant, images of cops and home invasions roll out over network TV all
the time. The free will junkie lifestyle isn’t exactly a picnic however.

The issue of addiction versus free will gets right to the central vein
(sorry, just had to..) of Ibogaine use. I like the practice of providing
this tool to people who want out of their addiction, and it seems unique and
powerful in it’s value for that. Do you providers take on clients who are
not really looking for a way out of addiction? Maybe the mom or girlfriend
are ragging on people but, naw, they really just like that dope..”

Speaking only for myself, I can’t see why it would be worth my time and
energy to help the junkie have a better commercial relationship to his
chosen pursuits. Yes, I bet Ibo would help a lot if used for that, but it
would feel like such a wasted tool for liberation…OK, help the opiate feel
better for a while, yawn, whatever…

Central question:   Is addiction a disease or illness that providers hope to
treat?  Or is free will use of great pain killers and ways to get high some
inherent right my neighborhood and I need to fight to protect? As long as
people aren’t in my face they should do what they want  to pursue and even
catch every happiness they can. No doubt. The Ibo list of PC thought from
Francis was precious. Too true.

Out here west of NYC, where gun control is a 4 inch group at 50 yards with
your one-handed pistol shot, the idea of a junkie’s rights to use gets a
little abstract. My libertarian beliefs are ok, but when the drug cartel
reps show up at your daughter’s high school prom, some of us get nervous and
tend to reach for something meaner than a good fence purchase. Dirty Harry
sold a lot of movies with the retribution schtick.

As for all the civil liberty issues brought out in the War on Drugs info,
there sure is a lot of sudden surprise and focus on the”dirty laundry” side
of the drug user “lifestyle”.  Dirt sells, for sure, but isn’t it all
getting hard to be shocked and amazed for you grownups that addiction sucks?
Over 500 years since the Spanish Christian monarchs sent Columbus off to
eliminate everyone non Spanish and Christian to generate revenue, and the
war has been pretty world wide and constant for your mind, spirit, and soul
ever since. Addiction has been a favorite controller tool for a long time.

I don’t know the experience of opiate addiction, thankfully, and no, I’ll
pass on those mashed potatoes too.  For the proud, freethinker junkies and
tweekers among us, does the free will model work for addiction or is there a
treatable illness there that loved ones might want to intervene with? When
do your decisions start to forfeit your claim to civil rights? Let me know.
Never mind the character jabs at me for asking, just come from your own
knowledge. As for the social critique of unaware drug policies, this war on
the drug user is just the sneak preview for what’s coming at us in Century
21, IMHO. Get clean, wake up, or don’t. Your choice. In the bright future
there will be a lot of available parking places, methinks.

I’m gone, thanks for reading.

Dr. Tom

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From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] after ibo treatment
Date: January 30, 2005 at 2:47:00 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Ekki
How much ibo did you use, what form of ibo did you use?? any advice on self administration??
love donna

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT) Re: [Ibogaine]
Date: January 30, 2005 at 2:45:27 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’ve been to Brighton, to the Stainless Steel Ball, back in ’93, a big huge fetish party. Took the train down from London with a beautiful partner named Suzi I was seeing at the time (whose photo is in a few books I’ve come across since, one called Body Manipulations- a very cool book full of nifty photos of freaky types.) I had a blast.
I also remember that Brighton had a few palm trees. Am I remembering correctly? I might be misremembering the English coastal city I visited where I did see Palm Trees (obviously not native) and am still thinking Brighton, but as noted, could be wrong.
Donna, what do you mean, your partner (“so-called mate) thinks this list is putting ideas in your head about getting off heroin? Is it? How did you come to this list? I’m sorry if you’ve already explained this, but I’m curious.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Mysterious Roots- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Explorations and Enigmas” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 2:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]

Hi Nick

I am so very sorry I do not think you are a twat, I had no knowledge that email was sent my so called mate sent it who thinks this list is putting ideas in my head about coming off heroin  I like everyone on the list you have all given me so much advice you are all an inspiration to me because I can not wait to be free from my addiction,, once again im so sorry and I would love to meet up if you are ever in Brighton
Love Donna

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From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]
Date: January 30, 2005 at 2:40:30 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Nick

Me again I just wanted to say sorry again, I could really do with some advice from you or any one else on the list, I have a choice self administer ibogaine which someone who is really experienced has told me its not out of the question and really comes down to the individual ,(would you agree with that?) or do the subutex and then the ibogaine which another person who is really experienced in ibo treatment has said this is probably the best solution to my problem.  I really dont know what to do, Nick I feel awful and I can not appologise enough this so called mate of mine does not want me to get clean because she does not want to, and after this I am really wondering why I am mates at all.
love donna

From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]-Provider question: Free will vs. Addiction
Date: January 30, 2005 at 2:22:35 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Preston !
I am going a bit out of the subject now, but do you believe for one moment
that our beautiful democraties are looking seriously in getting rid of drugz
?

Look at the numbers :
The Sager-Socolar study claims pharmaceutical industry profits would
increase by $139 billion, or 38 percent, between 2006 and 2013.
Not bad 🙂

ADDICTED TO PROFIT : CAPITALISM AND DRUG
http://pubs.socialistreviewindex.org.uk/isj77/farrell.htm

God bless
Francis

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 1:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]-Provider question: Free will vs. Addiction

Randy wrote >Have you ever met Preston? I have,
and maybe I’m just too sensitive, but I swear I could see the pain in his
face
when he had to move around. Does he or anyone else with as many pain
issues
as he has not have the right to try and make his life easier to deal
with?<

Thanks very much for pointing this out Randy.
I was again finding myself thinking about this whole thread this morning,
and Nick’s position. I’m very sick of reading Nick accusing me of making
excuses to be a junkie. For crying out loud, I think my wanting to be as
pain free as possible, considering I can barely freakin walk, or put my
right foot down on the ground, or sit at my desk and type, or feel the
skin
in much of my right leg and foot and beyond that numbness there’s just
excruciating pain, is very understandable, and something I don’t have to
make excuses for- nor do I have to or want to justify it, most
particularly
to someone like Nick.
I thank the powers that be for something like ibogaine, which might
very
well allow me to use opiates in much smaller amounts than might have been
necessary otherwise, that will allow me to keep my tolerance in check as I
continue to use opiates for my foreseeable future, maybe, if I can find a
steady supply over the next however many years I have left on the planet.
I’d personally be more than shocked if someone told me they’d only
sell
ibogaine to me if I was going to be using it only to get completely off
drugs, or with any stipulations whatsoever, and would be really upset with
someone is they refused to sell it to me or to anyone with this sort of
stipulation in mind.
And I keep coming back to the whole thing about ibogaine itself being
highly illegal and controversial in and of itself. I wonder what the
prohibitionist minded folk would think about your attitutde Nick, that
ibogaine is an ok drug to use but only to get others off drugs (am I ready
your position correctly here?)- they’d laugh in your face. It’s tough
enough
getting prohibition-deluded folk to accept methadone clinics (not my
preference, but in today’s horrific age and attitude a very necessary
avenue
to those not wanting to continue their lives running the streets dodging
cops but are not ready to stop “using” some sort of opiate.)

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Mysterious Roots- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
Civilizations,
Explorations and Enigmas” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: <BiscuitBoy714@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 10:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]-Provider question: Free will vs. Addiction

Dr. Tom, I read your post the other day and didn’t have time to give it
the
thought that it deserves, I have time now. First off, I’m not a provider
but I
know a few and I’d like to say something here. LOL I have to see that 4
inch
group offhand at 50 yards. I might be able to get 4 inch groups with a
Ruger Mk
II but with 2 hands and a rest. ‘Nuff’ jokin’, this is serious. This
issue
needs to be addressed. When I had my treatment everyone, and I mean
everyone
wanted to know about my aftercare and plans for the future to the point
that it
irratated me. Turns out that they were right about therapy by the way.
Nobody
that I know of will treat anyone just to make it easier to get high.
This
has
probably been hashed out allready, I haven’t had time to read everthing
on
the
list for days now, but I have to say this. Have you ever met Preston? I
have,
and maybe I’m just too sensitive, but I swear I could see the pain in
his
face
when he had to move around. Does he or anyone else with as many pain
issues
as he has not have the right to try and make his life easier to deal
with?
That’s not a decision I would make carte blanch (where the hell is the
spell
checker on this thing?) about anyone. Besides if I had my way Ibogaine
would be
legal and this would be a mute point. If I was a provider I would have
to
take
all things into consideration on an individual basis. To me, Ibogaine is
about
the choices it gives you and the best route out of addiction that I
personaly
know of. I’ve been addicted off and on since the 70’s to oppiates. This
is
the
first time I have felt good about being clean since I shot Morphine when
I
was
15 years old. I didn’t really see how it could work for me but I tried
anyway. It worked. How do we know who it will work for and who it won’t?
There is a
screening process and I’d have to say that to the man everyone treated
here of
late in the NYC area truly wanted to get clean. I hope Preston doesn’t
mind
me saying this but I would imagine if he could have been clean AND free
of
pain
he probably would have loved it. That didn’t happen for him and I wish
it
had. Ibogaine is medicine and should be treated that way. Oppiates are
medicine
too, just look at all those ‘scripts that get written for them. Dr.’s
give
out
an addictive substance all day long and the government won’t let people
who
want out of addiction have the single most effective way of dealing with
that
addiction legaly obtain Ibogaine. That almost seems evil to me. There
should be
Ibogaine information in every Dr.’s office and Methadone clinic in the
US.
I’m
covering my end on that, how ’bout you? I’ve said it before and I’ll say
it
again, I won’t shut up until every addict that I know of at least knows
that
there is another way out. I pay close attention to everything you say
and
I’m
glad that you brought this up. When I get back to the Catskills I’m
gonna’
work
on my one handed shot.hehehehe        Randy

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From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]
Date: January 30, 2005 at 2:21:31 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Sara
I completly agree with you I did not send that message, I like and respect everyone on the list the advice you have given me is priceless
Love Donna

From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]
Date: January 30, 2005 at 2:19:42 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Nick

I am so very sorry I do not think you are a twat, I had no knowledge that email was sent my so called mate sent it who thinks this list is putting ideas in my head about coming off heroin  I like everyone on the list you have all given me so much advice you are all an inspiration to me because I can not wait to be free from my addiction,, once again im so sorry and I would love to meet up if you are ever in Brighton
Love Donna

From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] after ibo treatment/attn preston
Date: January 30, 2005 at 2:01:55 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

thank you for the information and support. i have been in contact with sara and wanted to go to saras house with my friend, but she rather wanted to do it with me alone. i will get some HCl and try it out on both me and her. do you think frequent low dose therapy is better than a high dose once?

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From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] AA and Gurus
Date: January 30, 2005 at 1:58:37 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Sandy !!
In the true spirit of AA and NA, I have to bring my 2 cents 🙂

You wrote:
” I’ve been trying to avoid this discussion, since it DOES seem pointless to try to change anyone’s mind.”

* : “DOES seem pointless ” It’s seem point less but is NOT. In the rooms for the last 60 years and now in more than 150 000 Club houses all over the planet,  they are tryng or  actualy are changing the mind of hard core alcoholics and addicts.
Quite a successful journey 🙂 If you think that all started with a couple of broke drunks

you wrote :
” I was told over and over at AA;  that everything is happening just exactly the way it’s supposed to”
* Everything is happening just exactly the way it’s supposed to . God know best what is good for you . This statement is for people who are clean and sober.People who gave up their will for God will. This do not apply always and everywhere. Will be to simple, don’t you think ?

You follow with:
“that everything is happening just exactly the way it’s supposed to – so if Preston and myself are still “using,” that’s perfect.
I don’t understand – but I don’t think anyone really understands any of it very well (even the “self-proclaimed gurus.”).

* you wrote that  you “don’t understand “and that OK because you started with a wrong explanation and a deformation of the thought of AA.  You wrote ” but I don’t think anyone really understands any of it very well ” You right, this a paradox and only people who gave up the fight agins their addiction like in Step One and surrender to a power greater then themselves can understand it. Spirituality is mysterious and don’t follow ours human rules. How the infinitely small can understant the infinitely great ?
About the ” self proclamed gurus ”  All the Gurus are self proclaimed contrary to the rest of us who could be elected..Generaly they do so out of a strong personal  spiritual experience. Some  could proclaime too themself as leaders out of crazyness, power or greed. I guess the only way to recognize the bad apple from the good  ones is trought the study of their lifes and fruits.
In my humble opinion true gurus where Bob and Bill from AA regarding addictions and this came after a very stong spiritual experience for one of them. The man who discover Ibogaine and the use of it against addiction is a guru  .
From Guru  : 17 century Sanscrit ” Elder, Teacher “.

Sorry, if  I disapointed you. 🙁

God bless

Francis
P. S Regarding  Preston, I am sorry to know that he suffers from great physical pain. Is case is different, and I want to apologize to him if I hurted is feeling in anyway.

From: booker w
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 5:21 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Francis and Nick

Hi.  I’ve been trying to avoid this discussion, since it DOES seem pointless to try to change anyone’s mind.  But Nick, how about all the fat people…should we force them into “rehab” too, or at least go shopping with them and cook their food and exercise them.  They’re obviously draining the planet’s “good” vibes by their excess, not too mention all the animal suffering (it’s probably impossible to be fat and a vegan.)  I mention fatness because two of my best friends are literally dying from morbid obesity.  Watching them eat is like watching a dying junkie shoot up. It’s damn difficult to see, and I offer whatever I can for them, but I don’t support holding a gun to their head… (or forced rehab either.)
Preston, I support your position completely, but I think you’re probably right to give up the fight.  Nick, you’ve always been great to me, but yeah, I agree with Howard.  You were so into “the world is doomed,” and now I guess you’ve changed that stance and want to help alleviate suffering, which is great!  But, just like most of us, we want everyone else to change and think we know just how they should do it.  Don’t worry, I think that all the time myself, but I know it’s mistaken.  One of the precepts I was told over and over at AA;  that everything is happening just exactly the way it’s supposed to – so if Preston and myself are still “using,” that’s perfect.  Why that’s perfect, I don’t understand – but I don’t think anyone really understands any of it very well (even the “self-proclaimed gurus.”)  Another thing that I also learned in AA is that it’s not really my business what anyone else is doing.  Just concentrate on “my side of the street.”  (Another damn difficult thing to do.)  There’s chaos, then there’s order, then chaos again… that’s the only idea that makes any sense to me anymore…
Best to all, Sandy

>From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>

>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>

>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Francis and Nick

>Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 15:07:52 -0000

>

>Hi Howard,

>

>Many thanks for the link. Personally, I do not agree with Dr Cohen’s

>viewpoint. I do not agree that it is valid to administer a high-powered

>analgesic to oneself for a large portion of one’s time on this planet,

>(unless this is a strategy agreed on by medical professionals with regard to

>the individual). My opinion is that this is a life-negating orientation and

>I oppose it. I believe that doing so emotionally disenfranchises the

>individual from society with overall deleterious effects on our planetary

>life. Even worse, it’s a fucking drag. That’s my position!

>

>with love

>

>Nick

>

/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fw: [DrugWar] US: Dr. Ecstasy
Date: January 30, 2005 at 1:53:00 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey,
Maybe we should lock up Dr. Shulgin and his wife. Or force them to take ibogaine and if it doesn’t “work” (and that’s something else btw, mentioned in Randy’s post- ibogaine DID work for me folks- I got exactly what I wanted and needed from taking ibogaine I feel, and will do it again at some point, quite possibly more than once too) get the government to coerce them into stopping their obviously illegal and destructive drug use.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Mysterious Roots- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Explorations and Enigmas” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Richard Lake” <rlake@mapinc.org>
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 12:35 PM
Subject: [DrugWar] US: Dr. Ecstasy

URL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v05.n170.a05.html

Newshawk: DrugNews Fast! http://drugnews.org/
Pubdate: Sun, 30 Jan 2005
Source: New York Times (NY)
Section: Magazine
Copyright: 2005 The New York Times Company
Contact: letters@nytimes.com
Website: http://www.nytimes.com/
Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/298
Author: Drake Bennett
Note: Drake Bennett is the staff writer for The Boston Globe Ideas section.
Photo: Alexander Shulgin. (Jeff Minton for The New York Times) http://www.mapinc.org/images/Shulgin.jpg
Bookmark: http://www.mapinc.org/people/Shulgin (Dr. Shulgin)

DR. ECSTASY

Alexander Shulgin, Sasha to his friends, lives with his wife, Ann, 30 minutes inland from the San Francisco Bay on a hillside dotted with valley oak, Monterey pine and hallucinogenic cactus. At 79, he stoops a little, but he is still well over six feet tall, with a mane of white hair, a matching beard and a wardrobe that runs toward sandals, slacks and short-sleeved shirts with vaguely ethnic patterns. He lives modestly, drawing income from a small stock portfolio supplemented by his Social Security and the rent that two phone companies pay him to put cell towers on his land. In many respects he might pass for a typical Contra Costa County retiree.

It was an acquaintance of Shulgin’s named Humphry Osmond, a British psychiatrist and researcher into the effects of mescaline and LSD, who coined the word “psychedelic” in the late 1950’s for a class of drugs that significantly alter one’s perception of reality. Derived from Greek, the term translates as “mind manifesting” and is preferred by those who believe in the curative power of such chemicals. Skeptics tend to call them hallucinogens.

Shulgin is in the former camp. There’s a story he likes to tell about the past 100 years: “At the beginning of the 20th century, there were only two psychedelic compounds known to Western science: cannabis and mescaline. A little over 50 years later — with LSD, psilocybin, psilocin, TMA, several compounds based on DMT and various other isomers — the number was up to almost 20. By 2000, there were well over 200. So you see, the growth is exponential.” When I asked him whether that meant that by 2050 we’ll be up to 2,000, he smiled and said, “The way it’s building up now, we may have well over that number.”

The point is clear enough: the continuing explosion in options for chemical mind-manifestation is as natural as the passage of time. But what Shulgin’s narrative leaves out is the fact that most of this supposedly inexorable diversification took place in a lab in his backyard. For 40 years, working in plain sight of the law and publishing his results, Shulgin has been a one-man psychopharmacological research sector. (Timothy Leary called him one of the century’s most important scientists.) By Shulgin’s own count, he has created nearly 200 psychedelic compounds, among them stimulants, depressants, aphrodisiacs, “empathogens,” convulsants, drugs that alter hearing, drugs that slow one’s sense of time, drugs that speed it up, drugs that trigger violent outbursts, drugs that deaden emotion — in short, a veritable lexicon of tactile and emotional experience. And in 1976, Shulgin fished an obscure chemical called MDMA out of the depths of the chemical literature and introduced it to the wider world, where it came to be known as Ecstasy.

In the small subculture that truly believes in better living through chemistry, Shulgin’s oeuvre has made him an icon and a hero: part pioneer, part holy man, part connoisseur. As his supporters point out, his work places him in an old, and in many cultures venerable, tradition. Whether it’s West African iboga ceremonies or Navajo peyote rituals, 60’s LSD culture or the age-old cultivation of cannabis nearly everywhere on the planet it can grow, the pursuit and celebration of chemically-induced alternate realms of consciousness goes back beyond the dawn of recorded history and has proved impossible to fully suppress. Shulgin sees nothing strange about devoting his life to it. What’s strange to him is that so few others see fit to do the same thing.

Most of the scientific community considers Shulgin at best a curiosity and at worst a menace. Now, however, near the end of his career, his faith in the potential of psychedelics has at least a chance at vindication. A little more than a month ago, the Food and Drug Administration approved a Harvard Medical School study looking at whether MDMA can alleviate the fear and anxiety of terminal cancer patients. And next month will mark a year since Michael Mithoefer, a psychiatrist in Charleston, S.C., started his study of Ecstasy-assisted therapy for post-traumatic stress disorder. At the same time, with somewhat less attention, studies at the Harbor-U.C.L.A. Medical Center and the University of Arizona, Tucson, have focused on the therapeutic potential of psilocybin (the active ingredient in “magic mushrooms”). It’s far from a revolution, but it is an opening, and as both scientist and advocate, Shulgin has helped create it. If —  and it’s a big “if” — the results of the studies are promising enough, it might bring something like legitimacy to the Shulgin pharmacopoeia.

“I’ve always been interested in the machinery of the mental process,” Shulgin told me not long ago. He has also, from a very young age, loved playing with chemicals. As a lonely 16-year-old Harvard scholarship student soon to drop out and join the Navy, he studied organic chemistry. His interest in pharmacology dates to 1944, when a military nurse gave him some orange juice just before his surgery for a thumb infection. Convinced that the undissolved crystals at the bottom of the glass were a sedative, Shulgin fell unconscious, only to find upon waking that the substance had been sugar. It was a revelatory, tantalizing hint of the mind’s odd strength.

When Shulgin had his first psychedelic experience in 1960, he was a young U.C. Berkeley biochemistry Ph.D. working at Dow Chemical. He had already been interested for several years in the chemistry of mescaline, the active ingredient in peyote, when one spring day a few friends offered to keep an eye on him while he tried it himself. He spent the afternoon enraptured by his surroundings. Most important, he later wrote, he realized that everything he saw and thought “had been brought about by a fraction of a gram of a white solid, but that in no way whatsoever could it be argued that these memories had been contained within the white solid. . . . I understood that our entire universe is contained in the mind and the spirit. We may choose not to find access to it, we may even deny its existence, but it is indeed there inside us, and there are chemicals that can catalyze its availability.”

Epiphanies don’t come much grander than that, and Shulgin’s interest in psychoactive drugs bloomed into an obsession. “There was,” he remembers thinking, “this remarkably rich and unexplored area that I had to explore.” Two years later, he was given his chance when he created Zectran, one of the world’s first biodegradable insecticides. In return, Dow gave him its customary dollar for the patent and unlimited freedom to pursue his interests.

As Shulgin turned toward making psychedelics, Dow remained true to its word. When the company asked, he patented his compounds. When it didn’t, Shulgin published his findings in places like Nature and The Journal of Organic Chemistry. Eventually, however, Dow decided that Shulgin’s work wasn’t something it wanted to endorse and asked that he not use the company address in his publications. He began to work out of a lab he had set up at home, eventually leaving Dow altogether to freelance as a consultant to research labs and hospitals.

All along he made drugs: 2,5-dimethoxy-4-ethoxyamphetamine, or MEM for short, was his Rosetta stone, a “valuable and dramatic compound” that opened the door to a whole class of drugs based on changes at the “4 position” of a molecule’s central carbon ring. A compound he dubbed Aleph-1 gave him “one of the most delicious blends of inflation, paranoia and selfishness that I have ever experienced.” Another, Ariadne, was patented and tested under the name Dimoxamine as a drug for “restoring motivation in senile geriatric patients.” Still another, DIPT, created no visual hallucinations but distorted the user’s sense of pitch.

Shulgin tested for activity by taking the chemicals himself. He would start many times below the active dose of a compound’s closest analog and work his way up on alternate days. When he found something of interest, Ann, whom he married in 1981, would try it. If he thought further study was warranted, he would invite over his “research group” of six to eight close friends — among them two psychologists and a fellow chemist — and try the drugs out on them. In case of a truly dangerous reaction, Shulgin kept an anti-convulsant on hand. He used it twice, both times on himself.

Shulgin’s pace has slowed recently — the research group hardly meets anymore. Nevertheless, Ann figures that she’s had more than 2,000 psychedelic experiences. Shulgin puts his own figure above 4,000. Asked if they had suffered any effects from their remarkable drug histories, they laughed. “You mean negative effects?” Ann said. In more than a dozen hours of conversation, her memory proved sharp. But Shulgin, while a nimble conversationalist, can have trouble with names — of people and places, never chemicals. At one point, while explaining a mnemonic device he uses to remember world geography, he paused and asked me, “Where’s that place where Ann is from?” (She was born in New Zealand.) He is, though, also nearing 80.

Once a Shulgin compound develops a reputation, it is almost invariably placed on the Drug Enforcement Agency’s list of Schedule I drugs, those deemed to have no accepted medical use and the highest potential for abuse or addiction. It is therefore rather striking that Shulgin is not only still a free man, but also still at work. His own explanation is that, quite simply, “I’m not doing anything illegal.” For more than 20 years, until a government crackdown, he had a D.E.A.-issued Schedule I research license. And many of the drugs in his lab weren’t illegal because they hadn’t existed until he created them.

Shulgin’s knack for befriending the right people hasn’t hurt. A week after I visited him, he was headed to Sonoma County for the annual “summer encampment” of the Bohemian Club, an exclusive, secretive San Francisco-based men’s club that has counted every Republican president since Herbert Hoover among its members.

For a long time, though, Shulgin’s most helpful relationship was with the D.E.A. itself. The head of the D.E.A.’s Western Laboratory, Bob Sager, was one of his closest friends. Sager officiated at the Shulgins’ wedding and, a year later, was married on Shulgin’s lawn. Through Sager, the agency came to rely on Shulgin: he would give pharmacology talks to the agents, make drug samples for the forensic teams and serve as an expert witness — though, he is quick to point out, he appeared much more frequently for the defense. He even wrote the definitive law-enforcement desk-reference work on controlled substances. In his office, Shulgin has several plaques awarded to him by the agency for his service. (Shulgin denies that this had anything to do with his being given his Schedule I license.)

Nevertheless, in the early 80’s, Shulgin began having grim fantasies of the D.E.A. throwing him in jail, ransacking his lab and destroying all of his records. At the same time, he was finding it harder to get his work published: journals were either uninterested in or leery about human psychedelic research. He decided to make as much of what he knew public as quickly as possible. He and Ann started work on a book called “PiHKAL” (short for “Phenethylamines I Have Known and Loved,” after a family of compounds particularly rich in psychoactivity), self-publishing it in 1991.

It is a curious hybrid work, divided into two sections. The first, “The Love Story,” is a thinly fictionalized account of Sasha’s and Ann’s comings of age, previous marriages, meeting, courtship (to which nearly 200 pages are devoted) and many drug experiences. The second, “The Chemical Story,” is not a story at all, but capsule descriptions of 179 phenethylamines. Each entry includes step-by-step instructions for synthesis, along with recommended dosages, duration of action and “qualitative comments” like the following, for 60 milligrams of something called 3C-E: “Visuals very strong, insistent. Body discomfort remained very heavy for first hour. . . . 2nd hour on, bright colors, distinct shapes — jewel-like — with eyes closed. Suddenly it became clearly not anti-erotic. . . . Image of glass-walled apartment building in mid-desert. Exquisite sensitivity. Down by? midnight. Next morning, faint flickering lights on looking out windows.” “TiHKAL” (“Tryptamines I Have Known and Loved”), self-published six years later, follows the same model.

To date, “PiHKAL” has sold more than 41,000 copies, a figure nearly unheard-of for a self-published book. It introduced Shulgin’s work to a whole new audience and turned him into an underground celebrity. An organization called the Center for Cognitive Liberty and Ethics has an online Ask Dr. Shulgin column that receives 200 questions a month. On independent drug-information Web sites like www.erowid.com, you can find the “PiHKAL” and “TiHKAL” entries for dozens of drugs, along with many anonymously posted accounts of Shulgin-style self-dosing drug experiments, some of them harrowing in their recklessness.

With all of these fellow travelers, some very bad experiences are inevitable. In 1967, a Shulgin compound called DOM enjoyed a brief vogue in Haight-Ashbury under the name STP, at doses several times larger than those at which Shulgin had found significant psychoactive effects, and emergency rooms saw a spike in the number of people coming in thinking they would never come down. And while the number of psychedelic-related deaths is orders of magnitude smaller than the number due to alcohol, prescription drugs or even over-the-counter painkillers, they do occur regularly. In October 2000, a 20-year-old man in Norman, Okla., died from taking 2C-T-7, a drug Shulgin describes in “PiHKAL” as “good and friendly and wonderful.”

When I asked Shulgin whether he remembered the first time he heard that someone had died from one of his drugs, he said he did not: “It would have struck me as being a sad event. And yet, at the same time, how many people die from aspirin? It’s a small but real percentage.” (The American Association of Poison Control Centers, whose numbers are not comprehensive, attributed 59 deaths to aspirin in 2003; most, though, were suicides.) Asked whether he could imagine a drug so addictive that it should be banned, he said no. With his fervent libertarianism — he says the only appropriate restriction on drugs is one to prevent children from buying them — he has inoculated himself against any sense of personal guilt.

Shulgin’s special relationship with the D.E.A. ended two years after the publication of “PiHKAL.” According to Richard Meyer, spokesman for the agency’s San Francisco Field Division: “It is our opinion that those books are pretty much cookbooks on how to make illegal drugs. Agents tell me that in clandestine labs that they have raided, they have found copies of those books.” In 1993, D.E.A. agents descended on Shulgin’s farm, combed through the house and lab and carted off anything they thought might be an illicit substance. Shulgin was fined $25,000 for violations of the terms of his Schedule I license (donations from friends and admirers ended up covering the whole amount) and was asked to turn the license in.

To the extent that Shulgin is known to the wider world, it is as the godfather of Ecstasy: 3,4-methylenedioxy-N-methylamphetamine, or MDMA, was originally patented in 1914 by Merck. The byproduct of a chemical synthesis, it was thought to have no use of its own and was promptly forgotten. But Shulgin resynthesized it in 1976 at the suggestion of a former student. (He has never found out how she heard about it.) Two years later, in a paper written with his friend and fellow chemist David Nichols, he was the first to publicly document its effect on humans: “an easily controlled altered state of consciousness with emotional and sensual overtones.”

Unlike many of its subsequent users, Shulgin did not find his MDMA experience transformative. For him the effect was like a particularly lucid alcohol buzz; he called it his “low-calorie martini.” He was intrigued, though, by the drug’s unique combination of intoxication, disinhibition and clarity. “It didn’t have the other visual and auditory imaginative things that you often get from psychedelics,” he said. “It opened up a person, both to other people and inner thoughts, but didn’t necessarily color it with pretty colors and strange noises.” He decided that it might be well suited for psychotherapy.

At the time, it was not such an unconventional idea. In the 50’s and 60’s, the use of LSD, psilocybin and mescaline in therapy was the subject of much mainstream scholarly debate. LSD was a particularly hot topic: more than a thousand papers were written on its use as an experimental treatment for alcoholism, depression and various neuroses in some 40,000 patients. One proponent was a psychotherapist and friend of Shulgin’s named Leo Zeff. When Shulgin had him try MDMA in 1977, Zeff was so impressed that he came out of retirement to proselytize for it. Ann Shulgin remembers a speaker at Zeff’s memorial service saying that Zeff had introduced the drug to “about 4,000” therapists.

In certain therapeutic circles, MDMA acquired a reputation as a wonder drug. Anecdotal accounts attested to its ability to induce in one session the sort of breakthroughs that normally took months or years of therapy. According to George Greer, a psychiatrist who in the early 80’s conducted MDMA therapy sessions with 80 patients, “Without exception, every therapist who I talked to or even heard of, every therapist who gave MDMA to a patient, was highly impressed by the results.”

But the drug was also showing up in nightclubs in Dallas and Los Angeles, and in 1986 the D.E.A. placed it in Schedule I. By the late 90’s, household surveys showed millions of teenagers and college students using it, and in 2000, U.S. Customs officials seized nearly 10 million pills. Parents and public officials worried that a whole generation was consigning itself to a life of drug-induced depression and cognitive decay.

There is, in fact, little consensus about what MDMA does to your brain over the long run. Researchers generally agree on its immediate physiological effects: especially at higher doses, it can trigger sharp increases in muscle tension, heart rate and blood pressure. Hyperthermia, or raised body temperature, is a particular worry, along with the attendant risk of heatstroke or dehydration. MDMA also, at least temporarily, exhausts the brain’s supply of serotonin (a neurochemical thought to play a role in memory and mood regulation). But as to the extent and duration of that depletion, and whether it has any measurable functional or behavioral consequences, there is fierce debate and surprisingly scarce data. Nationwide, fatality numbers are hard to come by, but a study by New York City’s deputy chief medical examiner determined that of the 19,000 deaths from all causes reported to his office between January 1997 and June 2000, 2 were due solely to Ecstasy.

In the past couple of years, MDMA’s opponents have backed off from some of their stronger claims. (In one particularly embarrassing instance, a study linking MDMA to Parkinson’s disease was revealed to have instead been based on the use of methamphetamine, which is known to be much more neurotoxic.) Emboldened, a few psychiatrists are bringing MDMA back into the news in a role closer to the one Shulgin originally imagined for it.

With the F.D.A.’s approval of the Harvard cancer-patient study on Dec. 17, all that’s still needed is a D.E.A. license for MDMA. John Halpern, the psychiatrist heading the study, anticipates that happening in the next couple of months. At the same time, he cautions against making too much of his “small pilot study”: eight subjects undergoing a course of MDMA therapy, with another four receiving a placebo. The Charleston study is similarly modest, with 20 subjects.

Still, according to Mark A.R. Kleiman, director of the Drug Policy Analysis Program at U.C.L.A., “there’s obviously been a significant shift at the regulatory agencies and the Institutional Review Boards. There are studies being approved that wouldn’t have been approved 10 years ago. And there are studies being proposed that wouldn’t have been proposed 10 years ago.”

The theoretical basis for MDMA therapy varies a bit depending on whom you talk to. Greer says that by lowering patients’ defenses, the drug allows them to face troubling, even repressed, memories. Charles Grob, the psychiatry professor running the U.C.L.A. psilocybin study (also with terminal cancer patients) and a longtime advocate of therapeutic MDMA research, focuses more on the “empathic rapport” catalyzed by MDMA. “I don’t know of any other compound that can achieve this to the degree that MDMA can,” he said.

The medical community remains dubious. For Vivian Rakoff, emeritus professor of psychiatry at the University of Toronto, there is something familiar about the claims being made for psychedelics. “The notion of the revelatory moment due to some drug or maneuver that will allow you to change your life has been around for a long time,” he said. “Every few years, something comes along that claims to be what Freud called the ‘royal road to the unconscious.”‘ Steven Hyman, professor of neurobiology at Harvard Medical School and former director of the National Institute of Mental Health, put it this way: “If you asked me to place a bet, I would be skeptical. In general, one worries that insights gained under states of disinhibition or mild euphoria or different cognitive states with illusions may seem strange and distant from the vantage of our ordinary life.” Even so, both Hyman and Rakoff say that research should be allowed to proceed.

Shulgin has been credited with jump-starting today’s therapeutic research, but he prefers to play down his role. While heartened by the MDMA studies and happy to play psychedelic elder statesman, he insists that he is not a healer or a shaman but a researcher. Asked why he does what he does, he replies, “I’m curious!” He is most animated when describing the feeling that accompanies the discovery of a new compound, no matter what its properties. Sometimes he compares the moment to that of artistic creation (“The pleasure of composing a new painting or piece of music”), and sometimes it sounds more like a close encounter of the third kind (“You’re meeting something you don’t know, and it’s meeting something it doesn’t know. And so you have this exchange of properties and ideas”).

Shulgin’s lab is in the concrete-block foundation of what used to be a small cabin, set into a ridge a few dozen yards from his house along a narrow brick path. On the door is a laminated sign that reads, “This is a research facility that is known to and authorized by the Contra Costa County Sheriff’s Office, all San Francisco D.E.A. Personnel and the State and Federal E.P.A. Authorities.” Underneath are phone numbers for the relevant official at each agency. He posted it after the sheriff’s department and the D.E.A. raided the farm a second time a few years ago. (They later apologized.)

Shulgin gave me my tour late one afternoon. A weak light came in through the small, dusty windows. The smell — synthetic and organic at once, like a burning tire doused in urine — took some getting used to. Bulbous flasks were clipped into place above a counter crowded with glassware shaped like finds from the Burgess Shale. “Everything you need is right here,” Shulgin declared, pulling out drawer after clattering drawer of test tubes, beakers, plastic tubing and syringes. At the far end of the room, beside the fireplace, was a small chalkboard covered with the traces of his brainstorming — antennaed pentagons and hexagons ringed with N’s, H’s, C’s and O’s. Shulgin picked a short bit of scrap wood off the counter. He occasionally used it, he explained, to tear down the spider webs that festooned the rafters. “But the main problem is the squirrels,” he said, pointing to where he had put up sheet metal to keep them out. “It doesn’t look like the labs you see in the movies, but you get a chemist out here, and he’ll say, ‘Oh, my God, I’d love to have a lab like this.”‘

Of course, in a way, it’s exactly the sort of lab that you see in the movies — they’re just movies in which the scientists wear frock coats, turn into monsters and abduct wan women in nightgowns. There’s an undeniable romance to what Shulgin does. As he stood there with his spider-web stick, describing what it’s like to be in the lab late on a cold night with the fire blazing and Rachmaninoff on the radio, it seemed to me that he realized it.

He might best be described not as a scientist in the modern sense but as a different type — what Aldous Huxley, the novelist turned psychedelic philosopher, once described as a “naturalist of the mind,” a “collector of psychological specimens” whose “primary concern was to make a census, to catch, kill, stuff and describe as many kinds of beasts as he could lay his hands on.” Shulgin has on occasion run PET scans to see where in the brain some of his drugs go. He has offered theories as to mechanisms of action or, as with MDMA, even suggested an application for a drug. But his primary purpose, as he sees it, is not to worry about things like that —  much less about the political and social consequences of his creations. His job is to be first and then push on somewhere new. What to do with the widening wake of chemicals he leaves behind is for the rest of us to figure out.

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] after ibo treatment
Date: January 30, 2005 at 1:52:12 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 1/30/05 11:05:10 AM, skrupa20022002@yahoo.com writes:

Hi everyone! I took my last buprenex dose this am.Dont know how bad
withdrawal
will get ,but I know Im in the right place for support as needed.They tell
me bup w/d is very long but milder ,any ibonauts hve experience in this
arena.Im considering ibogaine if this gets too tough,probably sara’s. Not
really wanting to go to mexico again ,love those folks but dont really
want the clinical setting deal, no angels around that I know of, I would
never do it alone even tho Ive done it 3 times.All this tuff love stuff
has me wondering how many times do I choose to go thru this, feeling like
the detox queen here,what would my life be like if I wasnt doing this once
or twice  a year?Love yall, ill keep you posted -shell

Shelly,

If you are treating withdrawal and not addiction much lower doses of ibogaine
can be used.  Buprenorphine binds to receptors for quite a long time.  Some
of its metabolites may hang out for weeks.  Even 150 mg HCl may have a
significant effect on moderating dependence as well as producing psychotherapeutic
benefits in some subjects.  I would wait until you are experiencing withdrawal as
a matter of safety until more is known about burpenorphine and ibogaine
interaction.  You might even start with 50mg HCl just to test the waters.  Was your
last dose of burprenex 1mg and just to make sure you are not taking the
naloxone mix are you?  I think going to Sara’s is a good idea even if it is not
tough going.  It is like something to do. And with Sara there is so much more
than ibogaine/iboga.

Howard

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] after ibo treatment/attn preston
Date: January 30, 2005 at 1:42:20 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 1/30/05 12:46:58 PM, ekkijdfg@gmx.de writes:

she thinks the ibo was very good for her and wants to do it again, when

better prepared and more ready to stop drugs and in a more supportive
setting.

still i wounder if she has to have some bad cold turkey before she is
really willing to stop? i mean i hope not but i know withdrawals gave
me a lesson i needed.

Dear Ekki,

In difference to many others I am uncertain one has to be consciously
prepared to do anything including stopping drugs after ibogaine.  The discovery of
ibogaine’s antiaddictive effects was not made by uses intent on stopping but,
only on discovering and experiencing a new drug.  I don’t think one has to
suffer to recognize the benefits that ibogaine shows though if you have gone
through withdrawal and then do ibogaine that sure does appear as a miracle.  The
historic use of ibogaine has shown that multiple treatments are more effective
than single treatments.  If you do manage some HCl I would be interested in your
evaluation of that and if you are in Germany, well Sara is only a hop skip
and jump away in Holland.  But, the ibogaine experience that started this all
was self administered so what can I say. Good luck to your lady and you.  Also
don’t forget low dose therapy may be of use 100mg – 300 mg HCl or equivalent of
extract but, do be careful of concurrent other drug use as ibogaine most
likely potentiates both stimulants and opioids.  Most experienced drug users can
figure this out.  Past experience has shown 1/4 dose of opiates in low dose
ibogaine therapy where opiates are to be continued will suffice and the longer
afterwards the better.  Preston, what do you think of this and any others who
have experience.

Howard

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]-Provider question: Free will vs. Addiction
Date: January 30, 2005 at 1:30:11 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Randy wrote >Have you ever met Preston? I have,
and maybe I’m just too sensitive, but I swear I could see the pain in his face
when he had to move around. Does he or anyone else with as many pain issues
as he has not have the right to try and make his life easier to deal with?<

Thanks very much for pointing this out Randy.
I was again finding myself thinking about this whole thread this morning, and Nick’s position. I’m very sick of reading Nick accusing me of making excuses to be a junkie. For crying out loud, I think my wanting to be as pain free as possible, considering I can barely freakin walk, or put my right foot down on the ground, or sit at my desk and type, or feel the skin in much of my right leg and foot and beyond that numbness there’s just excruciating pain, is very understandable, and something I don’t have to make excuses for- nor do I have to or want to justify it, most particularly to someone like Nick.
I thank the powers that be for something like ibogaine, which might very well allow me to use opiates in much smaller amounts than might have been necessary otherwise, that will allow me to keep my tolerance in check as I continue to use opiates for my foreseeable future, maybe, if I can find a steady supply over the next however many years I have left on the planet.
I’d personally be more than shocked if someone told me they’d only sell ibogaine to me if I was going to be using it only to get completely off drugs, or with any stipulations whatsoever, and would be really upset with someone is they refused to sell it to me or to anyone with this sort of stipulation in mind.
And I keep coming back to the whole thing about ibogaine itself being highly illegal and controversial in and of itself. I wonder what the prohibitionist minded folk would think about your attitutde Nick, that ibogaine is an ok drug to use but only to get others off drugs (am I ready your position correctly here?)- they’d laugh in your face. It’s tough enough getting prohibition-deluded folk to accept methadone clinics (not my preference, but in today’s horrific age and attitude a very necessary avenue to those not wanting to continue their lives running the streets dodging cops but are not ready to stop “using” some sort of opiate.)

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Mysterious Roots- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Explorations and Enigmas” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: <BiscuitBoy714@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 10:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]-Provider question: Free will vs. Addiction

Dr. Tom, I read your post the other day and didn’t have time to give it the
thought that it deserves, I have time now. First off, I’m not a provider but I
know a few and I’d like to say something here. LOL I have to see that 4 inch
group offhand at 50 yards. I might be able to get 4 inch groups with a Ruger Mk
II but with 2 hands and a rest. ‘Nuff’ jokin’, this is serious. This issue
needs to be addressed. When I had my treatment everyone, and I mean everyone
wanted to know about my aftercare and plans for the future to the point that it
irratated me. Turns out that they were right about therapy by the way. Nobody
that I know of will treat anyone just to make it easier to get high. This has
probably been hashed out allready, I haven’t had time to read everthing on the
list for days now, but I have to say this. Have you ever met Preston? I have,
and maybe I’m just too sensitive, but I swear I could see the pain in his face
when he had to move around. Does he or anyone else with as many pain issues
as he has not have the right to try and make his life easier to deal with?
That’s not a decision I would make carte blanch (where the hell is the spell
checker on this thing?) about anyone. Besides if I had my way Ibogaine would be
legal and this would be a mute point. If I was a provider I would have to take
all things into consideration on an individual basis. To me, Ibogaine is about
the choices it gives you and the best route out of addiction that I personaly
know of. I’ve been addicted off and on since the 70’s to oppiates. This is the
first time I have felt good about being clean since I shot Morphine when I was
15 years old. I didn’t really see how it could work for me but I tried
anyway. It worked. How do we know who it will work for and who it won’t? There is a
screening process and I’d have to say that to the man everyone treated here of
late in the NYC area truly wanted to get clean. I hope Preston doesn’t mind
me saying this but I would imagine if he could have been clean AND free of pain
he probably would have loved it. That didn’t happen for him and I wish it
had. Ibogaine is medicine and should be treated that way. Oppiates are medicine
too, just look at all those ‘scripts that get written for them. Dr.’s give out
an addictive substance all day long and the government won’t let people who
want out of addiction have the single most effective way of dealing with that
addiction legaly obtain Ibogaine. That almost seems evil to me. There should be
Ibogaine information in every Dr.’s office and Methadone clinic in the US. I’m
covering my end on that, how ’bout you? I’ve said it before and I’ll say it
again, I won’t shut up until every addict that I know of at least knows that
there is another way out. I pay close attention to everything you say and I’m
glad that you brought this up. When I get back to the Catskills I’m gonna’ work
on my one handed shot.hehehehe        Randy

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From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] after ibo treatment
Date: January 30, 2005 at 12:46:10 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Ekki,

hello howard

I agree with Jason that the paradigm shift from IV to Nose is a big

we just phoned. she shot up 0,1g today which is very little and all she bought for today. she is certainly aware she needs less. the shift from iv to nose didnt last long, unfortunately.

one.  How does she view that? I am also curious as to what thoughts about
ibogaine she may have had?
i did send her some links last year. she was interested because i told her that it did me very good. she expected some visions like she read about in the net.
What changes do you see in her if any?
being a psychotic borderliner she is always comletely unpredicable. the day after she was in very good mood, we went ice-scating and generally had a lot of fun. i was really wondering since i had to stay in bed for 3 days after my self-treatment.

What is her
take on it all?
she claims to be clearer in her head than she has been for years. we had resonable conversations afterwards which was rarely possible lately. she was oftentimes threating suicide recently, but since the ibo she is talking more about future plans. btw she allowed me to discuss her ibo-experience on this list.

To me it seems like a positive experience in that there are
benefits to her.  Reduction of opiates, stopping iv injection and cutting coke.
How does she interpret these things?

she thinks the ibo was very good for her and wants to do it again, when better prepared and more ready to stop drugs and in a more supportive setting.

still i wounder if she has to have some bad cold turkey before she is really willing to stop? i mean i hope not but i know withdrawals gave me a lesson i needed.

Thanks

Howard

peace ekki

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From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Hyperactivity- Ann
Date: January 30, 2005 at 12:37:48 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks Julie 🙂
Since I subscribe to the theory that most addicted persons are trying
to feel better – nothing new in that, right?  So I ask, “better than what?”
and, if a person feels bad in some way and has felt that way all of his
life, how in the hell is that person supposed to figure that out this isn’t
necessarily the most optimal state of life?  So, society points fingers
and applies labels (not necessarily good ones, either) to these persons
who are merely attempting to survive and feel better in some way. ??

Who cares enough to look beyond the behavior at the cause?

ann
think@francomm.com

—– Original Message —– From: “Ms Iboga” <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 12:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Hyperactivity- Ann

Hi Ann,

You wrote:
**I wonder too?  I also wonder if there is a
coorelation to “hyperactivity”
in
childhood?

Just wanted to let you know, that I WAS a hyperactive
child.  I had to be taken off sugar and red
food-colouring until about 9/10 years old.

I find your hypothesis very thought-provoking, and
would be interested in hearing how many of us were
hyperactive as children.  Maybe this is why we were
drawn to the opiate class of drugs…??

Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The all-new My Yahoo! – What will yours do?
http://my.yahoo.com

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From: shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Shelley- Acupuncture
Date: January 30, 2005 at 12:21:19 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Julie ,I like acupuncturte.com & especially yinyanghouse.com. Acupuncture has been a godsend to me & I loved it so much that i graduated from a school here in October!And guess what led me to the school-you got it iboga herself! By the way ,all the acupuncturist I know use the disposable sterile needles, finally found a way for this old nedle junkie to spread healinmg rather than dis-ease-shell
Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi Shelley,

I am very interested in acupuncture…unfortunately,
some asshole practitioner used dirty needles here in
Toronto, and ended up giving a bunch of people some
crazy skin disease. Ever since that went down, I have
been very cautious.

Can you point me to a good informational website about
acupuncture?

Thanks a bunch,

Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Shelley- Acupuncture
Date: January 30, 2005 at 12:06:11 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Shelley,

I am very interested in acupuncture…unfortunately,
some asshole practitioner used dirty needles here in
Toronto, and ended up giving a bunch of people some
crazy skin disease.  Ever since that went down, I have
been very cautious.

Can you point me to a good informational website about
acupuncture?

Thanks a bunch,

Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Hyperactivity- Ann
Date: January 30, 2005 at 12:03:50 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Ann,

You wrote:
**I wonder too?  I also wonder if there is a
coorelation to “hyperactivity”
in
childhood?

Just wanted to let you know, that I WAS a hyperactive
child.  I had to be taken off sugar and red
food-colouring until about 9/10 years old.

I find your hypothesis very thought-provoking, and
would be interested in hearing how many of us were
hyperactive as children.  Maybe this is why we were
drawn to the opiate class of drugs…??

Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The all-new My Yahoo! – What will yours do?
http://my.yahoo.com

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From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Jason, Randy, Jeff, FakeP, Julian and others treated in the la…
Date: January 30, 2005 at 11:39:28 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

From: <BiscuitBoy714@aol.com>

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Jason, Randy, Jeff, FakeP, Julian and others treated in the la…

Julie, I’ve never been able to sleep “normal” all my life. My momma reads the
list and she can testify to that. I wonder how many of us junkie types are
the same way?

**I wonder too?  I also wonder if there is a coorelation to “hyperactivity” in
childhood?  Either none of the so-called “Professionals”  in the emotional/mental
health knew of any such connection or else this happened to be a very slow and
backward section of the country (Sorry, Randy).  I certainly did seek help and
mostly got blank looks or suspicion (what is wrong with this mother?) in return.
Randy had horrible nightmares from which I had great difficulty awakening him.

I bet that there is a bunch of us like that. I get 5 or 6 solid
hours of sleep most of the time but I’m old (kinda) and I hear you need less
sleep as you get older so I don’t sweat it. I take power naps when I have the
time. I’ve been so busy here of late that I needed to be up 18 or 20 hours at a
time. It doesn’t seem to drag me out near as bad as it did when I was addicted.
Sleep stuff like diphenhydramine and meletonin or kava helps to make it a
better solid sleep for me but when I’ve had a laid back day I don’t need anything
anymore. That’s a switch for me. I hope this helps.    Randy

with respect,

mama to Biscuit Boy

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From: shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Jason, Randy, Jeff, FakeP, Julian and others treated in the last 4-5 months
Date: January 30, 2005 at 11:18:58 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Julie, have you tried acupuncture ,it really helped me post ibogaine for sleep.

Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi everyone,

My question is for those treated recently: how are
your sleeping patterns? Is it just me, or do you
often wake up several times per night, for no apparent
reason? Or have your patterns returned to normal?

Melatonin seems to work pretty well, but only for the
first 4-5 hours and then BOOM!!: I wake up between
3-6am, every single night, regardless of diet, drug
intake, the day’s activities, etc….

I don’t want to complain, but it’s really starting to
get to me. I would really like to have 7 hours of
uninterrupted sleep, and I just can’t seem to get that
now. Don’t want any benzos, but would like some
advice on how to improve quality of sleep…

smiles,
Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Meet the all-new My Yahoo! – Try it today!
http://my.yahoo.com

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From: shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] after ibo treatment
Date: January 30, 2005 at 11:04:19 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi everyone! I took my last buprenex dose this am.Dont know how bad withdrawal will get ,but I know Im in the right place for support as needed.They tell me bup w/d is very long but milder ,any ibonauts hve experience in this arena.Im considering ibogaine if this gets too tough,probably sara’s. Not really wanting to go to mexico again ,love those folks but dont really want the clinical setting deal, no angels around that I know of, I would never do it alone even tho Ive done it 3 times.All this tuff love stuff has me wondering how many times do I choose to go thru this, feeling like the detox queen here,what would my life be like if I wasnt doing this once or twice  a year?Love yall, ill keep you posted -shell

HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 1/30/05 9:18:22 AM, ekkijdfg@gmx.de writes:

>i treated my friend on thursday. i found out she didnīt really want to
>stop using. maybe she needs more suffering ( i hope not). she didnīt
>have any visions although i gave her quite a lot of extract (the same i
>took), but very carefully building up and constantly checking her
>physical state. she complained about a humming sound and white flashes
>of light before her eyes. btw she also never could get any fun out of
>lsd.
>
>still she was impressed that she didnīt feel like smoking cigarettes
>and her heroin consumption now is down from 1(i.v.) to 0,4 (nose)
>gr/day and she didnīt touch c since then. she didnīt actually have any
>withdrawal symptoms the next day, but still she wanted to cop.well its
>only 3 days now, to early to judge the outcome.

>what i really didnīt consider was that she didnīt have a day without
>dope since 3 years, even in hospital she secretly took some and was
>kicked out anyway after 3 days. so she doesnīt know whats like to quit

>without ibo which maybe diminshes her admiration for it. still iīm
>happy we tried and i think it did do some good, but she wasnīt ready
>for it yet. maybe i was to eager to give it to her after my own great
>experience with it, but she claimed she really wanted to try it.
>also she knows now there is an exit in case she wants to get out some
>day.

Hi Ekki,

I agree with Jason that the paradigm shift from IV to Nose is a big

one. How does she view that? I am also curious as to what thoughts about
ibogaine she may have had? What changes do you see in her if any? What is her
take on it all? To me it seems like a positive experience in that there are
benefits to her. Reduction of opiates, stopping iv injection and cutting coke.
How does she interpret these things?

Thanks

Howard

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From: shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] cynicism and ibogaine
Date: January 30, 2005 at 10:57:43 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Ekki ,I wanted to say thank you for your interesting article about lonliness in response to my posts about my experience.Im intigued about your getting to treat folks there! Thanks again -shell

ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de> wrote:
> Personally, if Ekki wants to complain
> about the German government trying to fence addicts in, well, to me,
> it’s
> fair enough what they do. Freedom of speech and action is one thing,
> but if
> you have to keep stuffing the world’s most powerful painkiller into you
> day-in-day-out simply to maintain your perspective on the world, then I
> think it’s fine the world pushes you to look deeper. I think it’s
> totally
> fine.

but nick, i DONīT DO HEROIN anymore. i came into direct contact with
heroin just do days ago. i could have have some for free, but i didnīt
do any. also i donīt smoke, drink or use other drugs anymore. so you
think its ok to punish people who have already stopped by themselves?
iīm actually trying to help others you want to quit.
anyway how can you constantly check, judge and evaluate other people?
you wonīt make the world a better place like this!

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] after ibo treatment
Date: January 30, 2005 at 10:48:01 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 1/30/05 9:18:22 AM, ekkijdfg@gmx.de writes:

i treated my friend on thursday. i found out she didnīt really want to
stop using. maybe she needs more suffering ( i hope not). she didnīt
have any visions although i gave her quite a lot of extract (the same i
took), but very carefully building up and constantly checking her
physical state. she complained about a humming sound and white flashes
of light before her eyes. btw she also never could get any fun out of
lsd.

still she was impressed that she didnīt feel like smoking cigarettes
and her heroin consumption now is down from 1(i.v.) to 0,4 (nose)
gr/day and she didnīt touch c since then. she didnīt actually have any
withdrawal symptoms the next day, but still she wanted to cop.well its
only 3 days now, to early to judge the outcome.

what i really didnīt consider was that she didnīt have a day without
dope since 3 years, even in hospital she secretly took some and was
kicked out anyway after 3 days. so she doesnīt know whats like to quit

without ibo which maybe diminshes her admiration for it. still iīm
happy we tried and i think it did do some good, but she wasnīt ready
for it yet. maybe i was to eager to give it to her after my own great
experience with it, but she claimed she really wanted to try it.
also she knows now there is an exit in case she wants to get out some
day.

Hi Ekki,

I agree with Jason that the paradigm shift from IV to Nose is a big

one.  How does she view that? I am also curious as to what thoughts about
ibogaine she may have had?  What changes do you see in her if any?  What is her
take on it all? To me it seems like a positive experience in that there are
benefits to her.  Reduction of opiates, stopping iv injection and cutting coke.
How does she interpret these things?

Thanks

Howard

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Jason, Randy, Jeff, FakeP, Julian and others treated in the la…
Date: January 30, 2005 at 10:38:57 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Julie, I’ve never been able to sleep “normal” all my life. My momma reads the
list and she can testify to that. I wonder how many of us junkie types are
the same way? I bet that there is a bunch of us like that. I get 5 or 6 solid
hours of sleep most of the time but I’m old (kinda) and I hear you need less
sleep as you get older so I don’t sweat it. I take power naps when I have the
time. I’ve been so busy here of late that I needed to be up 18 or 20 hours at a
time. It doesn’t seem to drag me out near as bad as it did when I was addicted.
Sleep stuff like diphenhydramine and meletonin or kava helps to make it a
better solid sleep for me but when I’ve had a laid back day I don’t need anything
anymore. That’s a switch for me. I hope this helps.    Randy

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From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] after ibo treatment
Date: January 30, 2005 at 10:23:31 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

thanks for the sympathy, julie, nick and jason!

i will try some of the HCL and see if and how its different from the extract.

Am 30.01.2005 um 16:02 schrieb Ms Iboga:

Ekki,

I”m very happy for both you and your friend.  Have you
thought about trying a bit of the HCL?

Julie

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]-Provider question: Free will vs. Addiction
Date: January 30, 2005 at 10:21:21 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dr. Tom, I read your post the other day and didn’t have time to give it the
thought that it deserves, I have time now. First off, I’m not a provider but I
know a few and I’d like to say something here. LOL I have to see that 4 inch
group offhand at 50 yards. I might be able to get 4 inch groups with a Ruger Mk
II but with 2 hands and a rest. ‘Nuff’ jokin’, this is serious. This issue
needs to be addressed. When I had my treatment everyone, and I mean everyone
wanted to know about my aftercare and plans for the future to the point that it
irratated me. Turns out that they were right about therapy by the way. Nobody
that I know of will treat anyone just to make it easier to get high. This has
probably been hashed out allready, I haven’t had time to read everthing on the
list for days now, but I have to say this. Have you ever met Preston? I have,
and maybe I’m just too sensitive, but I swear I could see the pain in his face
when he had to move around. Does he or anyone else with as many pain issues
as he has not have the right to try and make his life easier to deal with?
That’s not a decision I would make carte blanch (where the hell is the spell
checker on this thing?) about anyone. Besides if I had my way Ibogaine would be
legal and this would be a mute point. If I was a provider I would have to take
all things into consideration on an individual basis. To me, Ibogaine is about
the choices it gives you and the best route out of addiction that I personaly
know of. I’ve been addicted off and on since the 70’s to oppiates. This is the
first time I have felt good about being clean since I shot Morphine when I was
15 years old. I didn’t really see how it could work for me but I tried
anyway. It worked. How do we know who it will work for and who it won’t? There is a
screening process and I’d have to say that to the man everyone treated here of
late in the NYC area truly wanted to get clean. I hope Preston doesn’t mind
me saying this but I would imagine if he could have been clean AND free of pain
he probably would have loved it. That didn’t happen for him and I wish it
had. Ibogaine is medicine and should be treated that way. Oppiates are medicine
too, just look at all those ‘scripts that get written for them. Dr.’s give out
an addictive substance all day long and the government won’t let people who
want out of addiction have the single most effective way of dealing with that
addiction legaly obtain Ibogaine. That almost seems evil to me. There should be
Ibogaine information in every Dr.’s office and Methadone clinic in the US. I’m
covering my end on that, how ’bout you? I’ve said it before and I’ll say it
again, I won’t shut up until every addict that I know of at least knows that
there is another way out. I pay close attention to everything you say and I’m
glad that you brought this up. When I get back to the Catskills I’m gonna’ work
on my one handed shot.hehehehe        Randy

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Vision problems/solutions post-Ibo
Date: January 30, 2005 at 10:07:57 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

J.,

Just wanted to chime in with my experience.  When I
first went on methadone, I had vision problems, and
had to get a prescription for spectacles, which I
would use for reading mostly.

After my Ibo detox, when I could actually see straight
again, I noticed I no longer needed to use the
glasses, as I could read books/papers/mags with my own
two eyes.

This leads me to believe that methadone might affect
your vision, and this is probably because it
constricts your pupils, thus limiting the amount of
light that hits your retinas.  It’s so great to have
my glasses tucked away at the bottom of my sock
drawer.

Anyone else experience something similar?

Julie

__________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail – now with 250MB free storage. Learn more.
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From: knowone knowwhere <kn0m0n3@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] after ibo treatment
Date: January 30, 2005 at 10:07:57 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de> wrote:

i treated my friend on thursday. i found out she
didnīt really want to
stop using. maybe she needs more suffering ( i hope
not). she didnīt
have any visions although i gave her quite a lot of
extract (the same i
took), but very carefully building up and constantly
checking her
physical state. she complained about a humming sound
and white flashes
of light before her eyes. btw she also never could
get any fun out of
lsd.
still she was impressed that she didnīt feel like
smoking cigarettes
and her heroin consumption now is down from 1(i.v.)
to 0,4 (nose)
gr/day and she didnīt touch c since then. she didnīt
actually have any
withdrawal symptoms the next day, but still she
wanted to cop.well its
only 3 days now, to early to judge the outcome.

what i really didnīt consider was that she didnīt
have a day without
dope since 3 years, even in hospital she secretly
took some and was
kicked out anyway after 3 days. so she doesnīt know
whats like to quit
without ibo which maybe diminshes her admiration for
it. still iīm
happy we tried and i think it did do some good, but
she wasnīt ready
for it yet. maybe i was to eager to give it to her
after my own great
experience with it, but –>she claimed she really
wanted to try it.
also she knows now there is an exit in case she
wants to get out some
day.
-ekki

Ekki,
I wish I had friends like you when I was there, I
probably wouldn’t want to quit if I never experenced
Sickness yet too.
I think the paradigm shift from IV to Nose is a big
one.
Well Wishes to Friend and You.
Cheers,
Jason

___________________________________________________________
ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] after ibo treatment
Date: January 30, 2005 at 10:02:16 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ekki,

I”m very happy for both you and your friend.  Have you
thought about trying a bit of the HCL?

Julie

__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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From: nick227@tiscali.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Francis and Nick
Date: January 30, 2005 at 9:57:19 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— Original Message —
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 15:39:35 +0100
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Francis and Nick

2) what is wrong with being desenfranchised from society? think about
jesus. i surely don´t want to be part of mainstream society in its
present state.

Jesus wasn’t “emotionally disenfranchised.” That is what I wrote, not

just
disenfranchised.

One of things you can get from time in a therapeutic community is that

you
can learn the value of being straight with people, man. You don’t have

to
MANIPULATE what others are saying in order to put a counterposing point
across, which is, frankly, pretty much all I see happening here on this
list with this thread. Not just you by any means. And for sure I’ve
done
plenty of it in the past. You can just be straight and state your
opinion.
You have the right. If you don’t agree then say you don’t agree. It’s

fine.

I state an opinion and nobody on this list opposes it directly. All
they
do is twist it around into different interpretations and present
counter-ideas
to their own interpretations – reacting with the same learned defensive
responses they’ve no doubt been carrying around their whole lives. Shit
man, that is pure 100% junkie behaviour – low self esteem covered over

with
layers of bullshit and defence. You think ibogaine is going to stop
that?
All ibogaine can do is throw it in your face and hope you don’t avoid.

You have a right to your opinions. You don’t have to twist things
around.
If you don’t like something just say so! Be straight. It’s ok.

Now I feel like some kind of schoolteacher!

sorry nick, i didn´t consciously want to manipulate what you are saying.
i´m not a native speaker and i enjoy improving my skills in written
english. i had to look up the word “disenfranchised” in my online
dictionary. it says: “deprived of the rights of citizenship especially

the right to vote”. what does “emotionally disenfranchised” then
exactly mean? maybe jesus was a bad example.

Hi Ekki,

OK, fair enough. I was just using it as an example to put a viewpoint across.
That’s me, manipulating away as usual!

Yes, I agree. Addiction is a great learning. You’ve got the learning

Ekki,
do you not agree it’s great if others get it too?

love

Nick

i also agree with you.
do you mean others should become addicted,too, to get the learning?
just kiddin(“twist it around into different interpretations”)

i´m thinking about founding my own self-help group for ex-junkies
deprieved of their drivers licence. we could share taxicabs and i could

spread the gospel of bwiti.

…peace… &LOVE
ekki

Sounds good. I’m sorry about your girlfriend. My brother was the same. He
took 4-5 big doses of ibogaine in the late 90s but would never stay off.
He was always happy to talk about getting off and eventually I realized
that was as far as he was prepared to go.

love

Nick

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___________________________________________________________

Book yourself something to look forward to in 2005.
Cheap flights – http://www.tiscali.co.uk/travel/flights/
Bargain holidays – http://www.tiscali.co.uk/travel/holidays/

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From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Francis and Nick
Date: January 30, 2005 at 9:39:35 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

2) what is wrong with being desenfranchised from society? think about
jesus. i surely don´t want to be part of mainstream society in its
present state.

Jesus wasn’t “emotionally disenfranchised.” That is what I wrote, not just
disenfranchised.

One of things you can get from time in a therapeutic community is that you
can learn the value of being straight with people, man. You don’t have to
MANIPULATE what others are saying in order to put a counterposing point
across, which is, frankly, pretty much all I see happening here on this
list with this thread. Not just you by any means. And for sure I’ve done
plenty of it in the past. You can just be straight and state your opinion.
You have the right. If you don’t agree then say you don’t agree. It’s fine.

I state an opinion and nobody on this list opposes it directly. All they
do is twist it around into different interpretations and present counter-ideas
to their own interpretations – reacting with the same learned defensive
responses they’ve no doubt been carrying around their whole lives. Shit
man, that is pure 100% junkie behaviour – low self esteem covered over with
layers of bullshit and defence. You think ibogaine is going to stop that?
All ibogaine can do is throw it in your face and hope you don’t avoid.

You have a right to your opinions. You don’t have to twist things around.
If you don’t like something just say so! Be straight. It’s ok.

Now I feel like some kind of schoolteacher!

sorry nick, i didn´t consciously want to manipulate what you are saying.
i´m not a native speaker and i enjoy improving my skills in written english. i had to look up the word “disenfranchised” in my online dictionary. it says: “deprived of the rights of citizenship especially the right to vote”. what does “emotionally disenfranchised” then exactly mean? maybe jesus was a bad example.

Yes, I agree. Addiction is a great learning. You’ve got the learning Ekki,
do you not agree it’s great if others get it too?

love

Nick

i also agree with you.
do you mean others should become addicted,too, to get the learning? just kiddin(“twist it around into different interpretations”)

i´m thinking about founding my own self-help group for ex-junkies deprieved of their drivers licence. we could share taxicabs and i could spread the gospel of bwiti.

…peace… &LOVE
ekki

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From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Subject: [Ibogaine] after ibo treatment
Date: January 30, 2005 at 9:17:41 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

i treated my friend on thursday. i found out she didnīt really want to stop using. maybe she needs more suffering ( i hope not). she didnīt have any visions although i gave her quite a lot of extract (the same i took), but very carefully building up and constantly checking her physical state. she complained about a humming sound and white flashes of light before her eyes. btw she also never could get any fun out of lsd.
still she was impressed that she didnīt feel like smoking cigarettes and her heroin consumption now is down from 1(i.v.) to 0,4 (nose) gr/day and she didnīt touch c since then. she didnīt actually have any withdrawal symptoms the next day, but still she wanted to cop.well its only 3 days now, to early to judge the outcome.

what i really didnīt consider was that she didnīt have a day without dope since 3 years, even in hospital she secretly took some and was kicked out anyway after 3 days. so she doesnīt know whats like to quit without ibo which maybe diminshes her admiration for it. still iīm happy we tried and i think it did do some good, but she wasnīt ready for it yet. maybe i was to eager to give it to her after my own great experience with it, but she claimed she really wanted to try it.
also she knows now there is an exit in case she wants to get out some day.
-ekki

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT) Re: [Ibogaine] vegans
Date: January 30, 2005 at 7:51:53 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

My girlfriend V has been militantly Vegan since Oct. 2000. She says she is very healthy, and that there isn’t any problem staying healthy. One simply has to do the research on what extra vitamins one might need if one isn’t getting them from their food, but that is not impossible to do either, that it is completely possible to get everything one needs from ones food in terms of nutrition even with any meat or dairy whatsoever.
It might take a little more work, but that’s just how it goes. She doesn’t do it for health reasons, she’s vegan due to not enjoying the idea of eating other animals. That’s her trip and she doesn’t lay it on others. But then, V is a really cool person.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Mysterious Roots- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Explorations and Enigmas” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: Kirsty Sutherland
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 1:14 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] vegans

Just wanted to comment on the vegan thing, does anyone know of any women that have been a vegan for more than 7 years and is not eating white meats? (fish, chicken..)
Just curious, I have yet to meet one.
If there are, how do they keep healthy?  Would be good to post to others considering going vegan, cos I know it’s damn hard to stay healthy…so if you are out there!!!
Kirk


Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]
Date: January 30, 2005 at 6:20:50 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

HEY DONNA, NICK IS NOT GOING TO HURT AN ANT.
HE SAYS WHAT HE SAYS BECAUSE HE CARES ABOUT THE WELL BEING
OF ALL, EVEN WHEN IT  SOUND’S LIKE TUFF LOVE.
AS FAR AS I’M CONCERND IT IS BETTER TO HAVE “TUFF LOVE”FROM SOMEONE WHO
CARES
THEN NO LOVE AT ALL AND NO CARE AT ALL.

Sara

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: nick227@tiscali.co.uk [mailto:nick227@tiscali.co.uk]
Verzonden: zondag 30 januari 2005 12:00
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine]

Hey Donna, I’m not a twat! Really! You live over near Brighton somewhere?
Well, I get over there now and again. Let’s hang out a bit next time. Really
I’m not a twat and I don’t own a thesaurus! Check me out. love Nick

___________________________________________________________

Book yourself something to look forward to in 2005.
Cheap flights – http://www.tiscali.co.uk/travel/flights/
Bargain holidays – http://www.tiscali.co.uk/travel/holidays/

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From: Jellking <jellking@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Francis to Preston
Date: January 30, 2005 at 6:02:44 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Nick, ya know lately  you’ve been saying  a  lot on  this list that makes a lot of sense to me.  I’ve been thinking that I wanted to let you know you’re a good healer, and also, from the past to just say hey  from an old friend….Jane.

Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

> —–Original Message—–
> From: Vector Vector [mailto:vector620022002@yahoo.com]
> Sent: 29 January 2005 20:20
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Francis to Preston
>
>
> I’ve been reading this list for years and when I think I understand
> alot of it, I always turn out to be wrong 🙂
>
> I’m not a drug addict, I’ve never done heroin or crack, or even wanted
> to.
>
> If there is any one thing that I think I’ve learned more then anything,
> it’s that addiction is the great equalizer and it can get people from
> such different backgrounds and viewpoints at least conversing, when
> normally they wouldn’t be in the same room together.
>
>
> I don’t agree with what you or Nick are saying here which I think isn’t
> a big problem, we have different opinions.
>
> My question to both of you is and please correct me if I’m wrong, I
> believe that I have a opinion and that means I can choose to live my
> life according to my beliefs and I can accept that others have
> different opinions.
>
> The way I’m reading what both of you are writing is, that your opinion
> is different then mine, because your opinion is more right or moral.
> Since you know what’s best for me and everybody else, your opinion
> should be a mandate and everyone should be doing whatever it is that
> you feel is best.
>
> Am I wrong or putting words in your mouths?
>
> .:vector:.
>

Hey Vector, I think I may have answered your question approaching ten times
in the last couple of days. But, wth, let’s go for it again, viz….

…Personally, I do not agree with Dr Cohen’s
viewpoint. I do not agree that it is valid to administer a high-powered
analgesic to oneself for a large portion of one’s time on this planet,
(unless this is a strategy agreed on by medical professionals with regard to
the individual). My opinion is that this is a life-negating orientation and
I oppose it. I believe that doing so emotionally disenfranchises the
individual from society with overall deleterious effects on our planetary
life…..I think it is fine that government introduce coercive measure to
move socially errant addicts towards treatment and rehab……..

I am NOT saying I am Right and You are Wrong. I am not talking about morals.
I do not oppose your belief “that I have a opinion and that means I can
choose to live my life according to my beliefs and I can accept that others
have different opinions.” It is fine with me. I am simply stating My
Position. I….Am……Simply……Stating……My…….Position.

If you wish to INTERPRET this position and extrapol8 a series of moral
perspectives, then pronounce relative judgements on these perspectives
according to whatever beliefs you have from Your Position then, shit man,
don’t let me stop you, interpret away, everyone else does. I’ll listen. Just
don’t expect me to defend a perspective that you have created yourself and
have claimed is mine.

Am I being unreasonable here?

Nick

> — The Garden wrote:
>
> > using and are trying to ” control the harm ” Just say : I can’t stop
> > and
> > don’t try to justify it. That is very confusing for people who are
> > seeking
> > for help. They could think : ” that Ibogaine thing is not working
> > ..”
> > when
> > Ibogaine is the only thing that could work for them.
> >
> > By the way , I don;t believe that the state should be allowed to
> > force
> > addicts to quit. This works only in totalitarian states. Mao Ste Tung
> >
> > style.
> > We live in democraties and the interest of democraties is to promote
> >
> > the
> > use of drugz.and alcohol and to destroy our values and roots. You
> > read
> > it
> > clear….
> > Why ? I can answer this question in detail in another E-Mail if
> > somebody is
> > interested.
> >
> >
> > God bless
> > Francis
> >
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>
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>
>

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From: nick227@tiscali.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]
Date: January 30, 2005 at 6:00:00 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Donna, I’m not a twat! Really! You live over near Brighton somewhere?
Well, I get over there now and again. Let’s hang out a bit next time. Really
I’m not a twat and I don’t own a thesaurus! Check me out. love Nick

___________________________________________________________

Book yourself something to look forward to in 2005.
Cheap flights – http://www.tiscali.co.uk/travel/flights/
Bargain holidays – http://www.tiscali.co.uk/travel/holidays/

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From: nick227@tiscali.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Francis and Nick
Date: January 30, 2005 at 5:47:46 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— Original Message —
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
From: ekki
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 10:05:29 +0100
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Francis and Nick

Am 29.01.2005 um 16:07 schrieb Nick Sandberg:

I do not agree that it is valid to administer a high-powered
analgesic to oneself for a large portion of one’s time on this planet,
(unless this is a strategy agreed on by medical professionals with
regard to
the individual). My opinion is that this is a life-negating
orientation and
I oppose it. I believe that doing so emotionally disenfranchises the
individual from society with overall deleterious effects on our
planetary
life. Even worse, it’s a fucking drag. That’s my position!

with love

Nick

1) i wouldnt trust medical professionals so much. a lot of people get
hooked on opioids by their physician in cases where it wouldn´t have
been necessary. the pharmaceutical industry is pushing the use of
opioids and anti-depressants. also a lot of medical professionals are
addicted themselves to prescription painkillers since they have easy
access. in addition i know lots of people whos health was seriously
harmed by doctors due to wrong treatment/medication.

Hi Ekki,

This is true.

2) what is wrong with being desenfranchised from society? think about
jesus. i surely don´t want to be part of mainstream society in its
present state.

Jesus wasn’t “emotionally disenfranchised.” That is what I wrote, not just
disenfranchised.

One of things you can get from time in a therapeutic community is that you
can learn the value of being straight with people, man. You don’t have to
MANIPULATE what others are saying in order to put a counterposing point
across, which is, frankly, pretty much all I see happening here on this
list with this thread. Not just you by any means. And for sure I’ve done
plenty of it in the past. You can just be straight and state your opinion.
You have the right. If you don’t agree then say you don’t agree. It’s fine.

I state an opinion and nobody on this list opposes it directly. All they
do is twist it around into different interpretations and present counter-ideas
to their own interpretations – reacting with the same learned defensive
responses they’ve no doubt been carrying around their whole lives. Shit
man, that is pure 100% junkie behaviour – low self esteem covered over with
layers of bullshit and defence. You think ibogaine is going to stop that?
All ibogaine can do is throw it in your face and hope you don’t avoid.

You have a right to your opinions. You don’t have to twist things around.
If you don’t like something just say so! Be straight. It’s ok.

Now I feel like some kind of schoolteacher!

3) i never did regret taking opiates, but i´m happy i stopped now with

the help of ibogain.
being never such a hardcore junky i don´t know how it is for people who

spend 20+ years being strung-out, but with my 4 years i found heroin a

very valuable experience, including the cold turkeys and so on. you can

learn a lot from addiction which may even have a good effect on our
planetary life, since addiction is a model for control mechanisms in
general you have to get free of.
there are and have been so many great people who have “administered a
high-powered analgesic to oneself for a large portion of one’s time on

this planet” that i wouldn´t condem it on the whole. think about
writers and musicians.

Yes, I agree. Addiction is a great learning. You’ve got the learning Ekki,
do you not agree it’s great if others get it too?

love

Nick

ekki

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___________________________________________________________

Book yourself something to look forward to in 2005.
Cheap flights – http://www.tiscali.co.uk/travel/flights/
Bargain holidays – http://www.tiscali.co.uk/travel/holidays/

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From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Francis and Nick
Date: January 30, 2005 at 5:36:00 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ekki
You hit the nail on the head i just could not find the words i completely agree with you
love donna

From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Jason, Randy, Jeff, FakeP, Julian and others treated in the la…
Date: January 30, 2005 at 5:32:51 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Julie

Do you think you need more sleep? is it really bothering you, I ask because the last time I got clean I used to get so stressed about not sleeping, but when I thought about it , it was all i needed, do you think this is the case?  Do you think (like me) you just got used to having 7 to 8 hours a night (dead to the world, not move a muscle sleep) ????  I hope you find something to help you sleep and well done for not turning to benzos (i probably would)

Love Donna

From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]
Date: January 30, 2005 at 5:24:28 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Nick do you check the thesaurus for every third word in your emails no offence but they read like you are a twat

From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Francis and Nick
Date: January 30, 2005 at 4:05:29 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Am 29.01.2005 um 16:07 schrieb Nick Sandberg:

I do not agree that it is valid to administer a high-powered
analgesic to oneself for a large portion of one’s time on this planet,
(unless this is a strategy agreed on by medical professionals with regard to
the individual). My opinion is that this is a life-negating orientation and
I oppose it. I believe that doing so emotionally disenfranchises the
individual from society with overall deleterious effects on our planetary
life. Even worse, it’s a fucking drag. That’s my position!

with love

Nick

1) i wouldnt trust medical professionals so much. a lot of people get hooked on opioids by their physician in cases where it wouldn´t have been necessary. the pharmaceutical industry is pushing the use of opioids and anti-depressants. also a lot of medical professionals are addicted themselves to prescription painkillers since they have easy access. in addition i know lots of people whos health was seriously harmed by doctors due to wrong treatment/medication.

2) what is wrong with being desenfranchised from society? think about jesus. i surely don´t want to be part of mainstream society in its present state.

3) i never did regret taking opiates, but i´m happy i stopped now with the help of ibogain.
being never such a hardcore junky i don´t know how it is for people who spend 20+ years being strung-out, but with my 4 years i found heroin a very valuable experience, including the cold turkeys and so on. you can learn a lot from addiction which may even have a good effect on our planetary life, since addiction is a model for control mechanisms in general you have to get free of.
there are and have been so many great people who have “administered a high-powered analgesic to oneself for a large portion of one’s time on this planet” that i wouldn´t condem it on the whole. think about writers and musicians.

ekki

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From: “Kirsty Sutherland” <captkirk@kol.co.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] vegans
Date: January 30, 2005 at 2:39:48 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

So this 60ish woman has been totally vegan?
Yes the B12 thing is a big issue, I have a friend who is vegan but not very good at looking after herself, so unless she gets a Vit B12 shot every now n then she goes Loco.  She now eats chicken and fish every now n then too, supplements could only do so much.
I’m just very interested……and if it helps others too….
Thanks for replying
Kirk
From: booker w [mailto:swbooker@hotmail.com] 
Sent: Sunday, 30 January 2005 7:55 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] vegans

Hi Kirsty.  Since I am pretty involved in animal rights activism I know several folks who’ve been vegan for many years- altho not sure how many are at 7, since the majority of the real strict vegans seem to be younger.  I do know one 60ish woman who’s been vegan for most of her adult life.  Seems to me from what I’ve read and heard a few speakers say, the only thing you’re really missing is B12.  Easy to take a vitamin for that.  If you’re worried about calcium, you actually need less if you don’t eat meat because meat leaches it out of your system.  I think you probably need less protein too, than is so often recommended, but that’s easy to get from several sources.  In Defense Of Animals has a body-builder spokesman too who’s totally vegan, just to prove that someone can even build muscle without animal products.
I have a tough time staying strict vegan, so it’s harm reduction for me there as well.  I do know I feel a whole lot “lighter” when I don’t eat animal products, but for sure I have to eat meals a lot more often.  There’s a gazillion opinions about veganism.  I’m really not totally against eating animals, if they have a good life.  But eating as few as possible certainly lowers cholesteral, keeps your weight down very easily – good for the heart and everything else.   There’s a great book called “Mad Cowboy” about a cattle rancher who became vegan and how it improved his health.  Howard Lyman – he’s the guy that caused Oprah to get sued by the cattle folks.  Also PETA has a vegetarian starter kit on their website.  When they say vegetarian, it’s really vegan.
(I gotta admit it’s weird but I kept dreaming about eating chicken and peanut butter myself shortly after ibogaine…)
Hope that helps.. sorry to bore anyone else.. sandy
>From: “Kirsty Sutherland” <captkirk@kol.co.nz>
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>Subject: [Ibogaine] vegans
>Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 19:14:57 +1300
>
>Just wanted to comment on the vegan thing, does anyone know of any women
>that have been a vegan for more than 7 years and is not eating white meats?
>(fish, chicken..)
>
>Just curious, I have yet to meet one.
>
>If there are, how do they keep healthy?  Would be good to post to others
>considering going vegan, cos I know it’s damn hard to stay healthy…so if you
>are out there!!!
>
>Kirk
>
>
>–
>Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>Version: 7.0.302 / Virus Database: 265.6.5 – Release Date: 12/26/2004
>
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From: “booker w” <swbooker@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] vegans
Date: January 30, 2005 at 1:54:59 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Kirsty.  Since I am pretty involved in animal rights activism I know several folks who’ve been vegan for many years- altho not sure how many are at 7, since the majority of the real strict vegans seem to be younger.  I do know one 60ish woman who’s been vegan for most of her adult life.  Seems to me from what I’ve read and heard a few speakers say, the only thing you’re really missing is B12.  Easy to take a vitamin for that.  If you’re worried about calcium, you actually need less if you don’t eat meat because meat leaches it out of your system.  I think you probably need less protein too, than is so often recommended, but that’s easy to get from several sources.  In Defense Of Animals has a body-builder spokesman too who’s totally vegan, just to prove that someone can even build muscle without animal products.
I have a tough time staying strict vegan, so it’s harm reduction for me there as well.  I do know I feel a whole lot “lighter” when I don’t eat animal products, but for sure I have to eat meals a lot more often.  There’s a gazillion opinions about veganism.  I’m really not totally against eating animals, if they have a good life.  But eating as few as possible certainly lowers cholesteral, keeps your weight down very easily – good for the heart and everything else.   There’s a great book called “Mad Cowboy” about a cattle rancher who became vegan and how it improved his health.  Howard Lyman – he’s the guy that caused Oprah to get sued by the cattle folks.  Also PETA has a vegetarian starter kit on their website.  When they say vegetarian, it’s really vegan.
(I gotta admit it’s weird but I kept dreaming about eating chicken and peanut butter myself shortly after ibogaine…)
Hope that helps.. sorry to bore anyone else.. sandy

>From: “Kirsty Sutherland” <captkirk@kol.co.nz>

>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>

>Subject: [Ibogaine] vegans

>Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 19:14:57 +1300

>

>Just wanted to comment on the vegan thing, does anyone know of any women

>that have been a vegan for more than 7 years and is not eating white meats?

>(fish, chicken..)

>

>Just curious, I have yet to meet one.

>

>If there are, how do they keep healthy?  Would be good to post to others

>considering going vegan, cos I know it抯 damn hard to stay healthy卻o if you

>are out there!!!

>

>Kirk

>

>

>–

>Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.

>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.

>Version: 7.0.302 / Virus Database: 265.6.5 – Release Date: 12/26/2004

>

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From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Jason, Randy, Jeff, FakeP, Julian and others treated in the last 4-5 months
Date: January 30, 2005 at 1:47:09 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hi julie whats wrong with 4-5 hours sleep at night?
like others on this list i know what its like not to sleep at all for weeks, i.e. zero hours sleep in 3 or 4 weeks.

since i took iboga i´m happy i only need 5 hrs sleep average at the moment, because there is so much else to do. also i remember more dreams. and lying awake at night doesn´t kill me.

what i did a few days after the iboga was to take low doses of antihistamine that are available as soporific. if you take high doses the effect is reversed and you stay awake.

btw benzoes suppress dreaming/working up of daily experience with is a function of sleep. there is this new generation of z-soporifics with is said to be not so hard on your brain and not supress dreaming so much.
i found going for long walks watching my steps or even much better silient sitting meditation very good for mind-digesting and thus reducing the amount of sleep i need/want.

Am 29.01.2005 um 23:06 schrieb Ms Iboga:

Hi everyone,

My question is for those treated recently: how are
your sleeping patterns?  Is it just me, or do you
often wake up several times per night, for no apparent
reason?  Or have your patterns returned to normal?

Melatonin seems to work pretty well, but only for the
first 4-5 hours and then BOOM!!: I wake up between
3-6am, every single night, regardless of diet, drug
intake, the day’s activities, etc….

I don’t want to complain, but it’s really starting to
get to me.    I would really like to have 7 hours of
uninterrupted sleep, and I just can’t seem to get that
now.  Don’t want any benzos, but would like some
advice on how to improve quality of sleep…

smiles,
Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Meet the all-new My Yahoo! – Try it today!
http://my.yahoo.com

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From: “Kirsty Sutherland” <captkirk@kol.co.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] vegans
Date: January 30, 2005 at 1:14:57 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Just wanted to comment on the vegan thing, does anyone know of any women that have been a vegan for more than 7 years and is not eating white meats? (fish, chicken..)
Just curious, I have yet to meet one.
If there are, how do they keep healthy?  Would be good to post to others considering going vegan, cos I know it’s damn hard to stay healthy…so if you are out there!!!
Kirk

–
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.302 / Virus Database: 265.6.5 – Release Date: 12/26/2004

From: “Kirsty Sutherland” <captkirk@kol.co.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] OT Music Topic
Date: January 30, 2005 at 1:10:40 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hiya Allison,Give me more info, or download Lime Wire, it’s great, better than Kazaa, (has been for me….faster, better searches etc….)
Hows things up yonder? Heard it’s been hot as~~!~
Kirk
From: Allison Senepart [mailto:paradisepaint@call south.net.nz] 
Sent: Sunday, 30 January 2005 2:36 p.m.
To: ibogaine
Subject: [Ibogaine] OT Music Topic

Can anyone on the list help me find a CD my partner is trying to buy.  Party Boys.  An Australian CD.  No-one here in NZ seems to be able to source it and a net search turned up not too much helpful info.  Just thought I’d throw that request out.  Any help appreciated.  Ta Allison

–
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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]
Date: January 30, 2005 at 12:44:53 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Maybe,..just maybe,

This is what they choose to experience.

Maybe their is a reason,a reason
we are not aware of.

Maybe some of us need to experience a life
negating experience,..for whatever reason.

Maybe,..say,..to understand the power of addiction.

What we need more of is understanding ,love and
nonjudgement,..force kills all three.

As the saying goes,
A man convinced against his will is of the same
opinion still.

Mixing love with force is like mixing
oil and water,..they both have their purpose,.but
they just don’t mix.

I understand that you just want to help. I feel, in
my humble opinion the best way to do this is to
just be there when help is asked,..when a person
is ready to help themselves.

with love
Jasen.

—– Original Message —– From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 1:07 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Francis and Nick

. I do not agree that it is valid to administer a high-powered
analgesic to oneself for a large portion of one’s time on this planet,
(unless this is a strategy agreed on by medical professionals with regard
to
the individual). My opinion is that this is a life-negating orientation
and
I oppose it. I believe that doing so emotionally disenfranchises the
individual from society with overall deleterious effects on our planetary
life. Even worse, it’s a fucking drag. That’s my position!

with love

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com [mailto:HSLotsof@aol.com]
Sent: 29 January 2005 13:38
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Francis and Nick

In a message dated 1/29/05 6:04:03 AM, nick227@tiscali.co.uk writes:

>
>Same thing in these dialogues. Granted it’s only a few people
that respond
>but basically all I have said is that I support the German government in
>its moves to curb addiction and that sometimes I feel like
dragging people
>out of their homes to participate in life a bit more. From this
it’s like,
>I’m a nazi or it’s to do with the jews in the war or Christ
knows what. To
me,
>to be honest, this is just the basic layer of resistance the
psyche has to
>the idea of change. I see it when I’m doing therapist work all the time.
People
>want to shoot me up with gear, well, so what, I could do with a bit more
>rest at times anyway. Preston’s there shaking his head so much it’s
>about
>to fall off or something, yeah well that’s life.

Hi Nick,

Did you read Peter Cohen’s writing in the HRC ibogaine roundtable
report.
Peter got dana quite upset but, I think his writing may be
directed more at you.
What do you think of his thoughts?
http://www.doraweiner.org/aatod_hrc.html
(see ibogaine roundtable review and the link to his full article
from there
if you wish).  It seems to me that over the years you have gone
from a “world
is doom” to a “world should be controlled” philosophy and that of
course is not
an unnatural course or events.  It is just that that control
concept in the
US with prohibition and our prison industrial complex gives me a lot of
concern.  And I guess it is not just the US but, I am here.

Howard

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From: “walt denton” <wally1@willitsonline.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism
Date: January 29, 2005 at 8:44:11 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Actually, I agree with much of Nick’s analysis of the mechanics of
self-sabotage, self-repression, pain
avoidance, etc. as far as it goes.  Of course “as far as it goes” is the key
phrase and when in our zeal
we misjudge this it often leads inexorably to disastrous results.  On every
level.  For ourselves and
for all those unfortunate enough to fall within the reach of our righteous
power.  We all know these
misjugments have produced so much of the mischief and suffering in this
world and yet we can never
really imagine it could apply to us as we gallop forth to set things right.

Who among us can really say with certainty that we possess the degree of
uncompromising and
fearless self-honesty that surely is necessary before we can bet OTHER
peoples lives on our
prescriptions and conclusions.  Who, after even a moments honest self
reflection can raise his or
her hand?…….I’m ignoring Nick waving his arm furiously.  It doesn’t
count if the arm is always raised.

Walt
—– Original Message —–
From: “….Ken” <chayco@island.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 10:45 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism

—– Original Message —–
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>

Ken, man, I am fine with empathy. But it is not the only tool in
therapy.

There’s come a point where, if you care, you have to not just sit by
empathising while people are destroying themselves. You can start to
take
a
position, this is also possible. This is what I am learning to do.

About Thailand, I did not know that this was happening. Can I ask you,
is
it
your position that you believe that in Europe and the US a simiar thing
would happen? Is that what you genuinely believe? If “Yes” then I think
it’s
fine you resist, if you are in genuine fear of your life. Who wouldn’t.

Hello Nick,

I believe you may not quite understand what empathy means….but lets
leave
that.

I believe something similar could possibly happen in the U.S. ,but most
probably not in Europe and Canada.
The American peoples complicity regarding the attack on Iraq showed just
how
fearful the average American is of
showing dissent towards their government when it has the bloodlust.

The trouble with ‘resisting’ is that these programs only affect the weak
and
are supported by the comfortable. You say “who wouldn’t”….(resist) .
Nick
,would you assist drug addicts and from being rounded up and placed in
‘detox camps’  against their will ? When the round up was going on in
Thailand the general population supported it, these were ‘bad’ people. The
ones who were killed was by ‘accident’ or the police were provoked, or it
really was druggies shooting each other, all within three months….then
it
stopped, wars over folks. Today, there is some collective guilt concerning
the killings, but at the time the country was in bloodlust and the
government brooked no dissent.

There might be a few books you could read concerning social engineeing.

…Ken

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From: “Allison Senepart” <paradisepaint@call south.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] OT Music Topic
Date: January 29, 2005 at 8:35:56 PM EST
To: “ibogaine” <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Can anyone on the list help me find a CD my partner is trying to buy.  Party Boys.  An Australian CD.  No-one here in NZ seems to be able to source it and a net search turned up not too much helpful info.  Just thought I’d throw that request out.  Any help appreciated.  Ta Allison

From: Anntelope <Anntelope@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: [DrugWar] Re: [Ibogaine] QUESTION on ‘The Nature of Addiction’
Date: January 29, 2005 at 8:34:38 PM EST
To: drug war mailing list <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: drugwar@mindvox.com

Well, I was hooked on Speed and Methamphedimine and Bams till there was a
panic and I couldn’t get any of it anymore.  Damned if I didn’t switch to
Coke which I hated but out of desperation took it as opposed to nothing.  I
was quite shocked when I actually began to prefer the Coke but lo and behold
it did happen because when Speed re appeared I didn’t care a bit and
continued on with the Coke.

Anyway, ten years ago, I kicked the Coke and I will never be taking it
again.  The very thought makes me feel not good.   You see, I got Osteo
Militis in my neck bones from some kind of a germ and it was some of the
worst pain I ever endured and most certainly the longest I ever endured it –
nearly three weeks of suffering with a pain that’s like the equivalent of
three or four severe toothaches except it’s in your back.  I didn’t realize
bones had feelings too but oh boy do they ever.

I’d say that I don’t agree that Meth addicts can never recover.  Pain will
stop you.  When all else fails, pain is a teacher of lessons like nothing
else.

LOLOLOL

Anne
http://www.eastvillagepoetry.com

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 16:33:45 -0500
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Subject: Fw: [Ibogaine] QUESTION on ‘The Nature of Addiction’

—– Original Message —–
From: Kay Lee
To: DPF Texas
Cc: Ibogaine List
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 2:55 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] QUESTION on ‘The Nature of Addiction’

I wanted the opinion of experts, so I’m asking that y’all read this and let
me know if it is quality work. There’s a new term in prison medical lingo
being reported in papers all over the country. They call the dental problems
related to drugs, “Meth Mouth”.  I am adding this to my medical section and
I want to link addiction information – if it is superior information.  This
article is part one of a five-part series.

If anyone knows of a better resource, I’d like to read it.  Thanks, Kay Lee

The nature of addiction
http://www.smythnews.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=SCN/MGArticle/SCN_BasicArt
icle&c=MGArticle&cid=1031780461336&path=!home
by Lee Ann Prescott
lprescot@wythenews.com | 276-783-5121
Smyth County News
Wednesday, January 26, 2005

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Francis to Preston
Date: January 29, 2005 at 7:28:35 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>And hey, Francis, I like what you write. You have guts, man. Yeah, this
is
the IBOGAINE list, not heroin-excuses.net. It’s true you can write
anything
you want on this list but if you want to take a stand on addiction in a
meaningful way, then you have to be able to take a bit of shit. Keep doing
what you’re doing, guy, cause you’ve got the guts and that’s what’s
needed.<

I did not write this Francis, Nick did.

Francis, you did write as near as I can make out, >My point is simple and clear : If you are
using and are trying to ” control the harm ” Just say : I can’t stop and
don’t try to justify it. That is very confusing for people who are seeking
for help. They could think : ” that  Ibogaine thing  is not working ..” when
Ibogaine is the only thing that could work for them.<

I’m not sure what you mean here. If I felt ibogaine “didn’t work” or “is not working” for me, would I then be expected to keep quiet about it in case I scare off others who may want to try it? LOL, you’re kidding, right?
But then, I never ever said ibogaine wasn’t or working or did not work for me, did I?

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Mysterious Roots- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Explorations and Enigmas” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 2:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Francis to Preston

Hi Preston !!

I would had bet you will answer my E-Mail 🙂

You wrote :

>And hey, Francis, I like what you write. You have guts, man. Yeah, this
is
the IBOGAINE list, not heroin-excuses.net. It’s true you can write
anything
you want on this list but if you want to take a stand on addiction in a
meaningful way, then you have to be able to take a bit of shit. Keep doing
what you’re doing, guy, cause you’ve got the guts and that’s what’s
needed.<

* # Thank you for your undestanding. I don’t have guts, no more than
everybody else, for sure  :-).
What’s excatly a meaninful way to take a stand to addiction, for you ?
For me addiction is the contrary of  L I V E = E VI L.. .
I am willing to take a bit of shit but not too much either.;-)
” soft like a rose, but like a tiger when is a matter of principle”

You wrote
Francis recently wrote some comment along the lines of “I can’t believe
someone who has taken ibogaine is still promoting drug use,” or something
along these lines, and you take the position that by taking ibogaine there
is one and just one result expected or valid- all other responces on the
part of the individual who took/takes ibogaine are not valid or worth
listening to if it isn’t “I want nothing to do with drugs now,” or “my
life
should now be an open book to all and sundry and they should behave and
think like me or the state should be allowed to force them to do so,”
again,
something along these lines.

* #  No, No, No I never said that 🙂 You are distorting my writting, You
are tryng to read in my mind something that is not there. but you covert
smartly all this with a sort of disclosure ; ” again,
something along these lines. ” My point is simple and clear : If you are
using and are trying to ” control the harm ” Just say : I can’t stop and
don’t try to justify it. That is very confusing for people who are seeking
for help. They could think : ” that  Ibogaine thing  is not working ..” when
Ibogaine is the only thing that could work for them.

By the way , I don;t believe that the state should be allowed to force
addicts to quit. This works only in totalitarian states. Mao Ste Tung style.
We live in  democraties and the interest of democraties is to promote the
use of drugz.and alcohol and to destroy our values and  roots. You read it
clear….
Why ? I can answer this question in detail in another E-Mail if somebody is
interested.

God bless
Francis

(I mean, now you’re defining this list for
crying out loud. Boy, you’ve got a lot of fucking nerve. How is what I’m
talking about, or anyone else for that matter, any less about ibogaine
than
what you are or what you would like to discuss? I mean it, what the hell
does that mean, “this is an ibogaine list, not heroin-excuses.net?” Did
you
miss the post about how I am not taking heroin? Even were I, so what? How
would my discussing my thoughts about addiction, opiates and more on this
list make it not about ibogaine- insert bad word here- ?)

🙂 I was not talking particularly of you, but if you feel this was about
you, I can’t stop you…..
I’m really tired of this conversation actually. I’m tired of reading
from you Nick that my reactions and my thoughts about ibogaine aren’t
valid
and are somehow incorrect because I’m of the opinion that we can (and
should) chose to use ibogaine as we will as individuals, not as some
others
want me/us to do so. I cannot say I’m sorry I’m not getting the same
things
from my ibogaine experiences that you are, because I’m not, not in the
slightest. I did get (and am still getting, even in part from this here
list
for crying out loud- and for that matter was even before I tried ibogaine)
quite a lot out of my experiences and am firmly of the opinion that it
should be as available as any and all other drugs (though, as with
everything, I’m sure I could find exceptions to this notion, both about
ibo
and about the other drugs), that it definitely was a very spiritual
experience that gave me a lot of hope and clarity, and I admit to feeling
a
lot of confusion about things in general.
But then, I will probably always feel confusion about things in
general
Nick, Francis and all. I am not someone who can find it in himself to ever
say “my way or the highway,” or “my way by force you unenlightened types”
nor “I know what’s best and wish everyone would do it my way because gee
wouldn’t the world be nice and happy when full of Prestons,” or anything
that remotely implies I have “THE” answer.
I’m a pretty tolerant person Nick, which is why I have so much trouble
with the notion you appear to be promoting. I’d never ever come at people
the way you are, and figure I’d live in a sheltered community where
everyone
else is just like me or striving to be, too if I felt like you about the
world and my place in it.
But you’re welcome to it. Just don’t try to force me ever to your
view.
You can call me a junky or whatever to-you-derogatory you’d like, I don’t
mind. I will continue to be happily in love, writing and publishing and
living and getting the most I can out of my life, helping to do my part to
prove that no matter what drug or non-drug we each chose to use that we
are
all capable of loving and being loved and don’t deserve jail.
You do what you want.

>What I see more and more is that a lot (by no means all) of the
people that ibogaine attracts just want something that’s going to take all
their problems away without them having to move their whole position in
life
even one millimetre. Well, in my experience it’s not impossible that could
happen but it is relatively unlikely.<

What I also get out of your writing is that you imply and assume a hell of
a
lot about other people with no justification whatsoever. I’ve…
Ah, fuck it, this is ridiculous.
Why am I bothering wasting my time on you Nick? This is utterly pointless.
You continue doing what you are, I’ll do the same and stop wasting my
precious time arguing this with you.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Mysterious Roots- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
Civilizations,
Explorations and Enigmas” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 6:03 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Francis and Nick

>
>
>> —–Original Message—–
>> From: Carla Barnes [mailto:carlambarnes@yahoo.com]
>> Sent: 28 January 2005 01:32
>> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Francis and Nick
>>
>>
>> Francis………. you’re being a grouch 😉
>>
>> Hi Nick, you haven’t posted too much in the last year
>> but aren’t you one of the people who might have a lot
>> of personal feelings about drug addiction due to one
>> of your family members being a junkie? I’m sorry I
>> don’t remember if it was your son or your brother, but
>> there was someone in your family youve dosed with
>> ibogaine a lot of times and no matter what you tried
>> or wanted them to do they would not get clean.
>>
>> In spite of all your self awareness, isn’t it possible
>> you might have a teeny little bit of anger at them?
>> 😉
>>
>
> Hi Carla,
>
> Yes, it’s true, my adoptive brother Ken has had a long term heroin
problem
> in the past and in the late 90s I tried to help him with ibogaine.
> Currently, he claims to be clean but I have my doubts, personally. Yes,
I
> did use to get very pissed off when I tried to communicate with him and

> felt
> I couldn’t really get through to him. However, this doesn’t really > drive
> me
> crazy or anything, though it does still upset me at times. I mean, long
> before he was a druggie he was spaced out and I learned to find people
> that
> could communicate with me and not just put it on him that HE had to
> change.
> Though for him, it’s true I also think it would be fine if the
government
> took a stronger stance. And, yeah, if it happened, he would ring me up
and
> tell me they’re being nazis or whatever.
>
> Really, to be honest, I feel like I’ve learned a lot from these
dialogues
> about just where people who are coming toward ibogaine actually are in
> terms
> of coming towards getting off drugs. Now that ibogaine’s getting bigger
in
> the UK, I’ve people on at me daily to help them get it (I run a website
on
> ibogaine). What I see more and more is that a lot (by no means all) of
the
> people that ibogaine attracts just want something that’s going to take
all
> their problems away without them having to move their whole position in
> life
> even one millimetre. Well, in my experience it’s not impossible that
could
> happen but it is relatively unlikely.
>
> Same thing in these dialogues. Granted it’s only a few people that
respond
> but basically all I have said is that I support the German government > in
> its
> moves to curb addiction and that sometimes I feel like dragging people
out
> of their homes to participate in life a bit more. From this it’s like,
I’m
> a
> nazi or it’s to do with the jews in the war or Christ knows what. To > me,
> to
> be honest, this is just the basic layer of resistance the psyche has to
> the
> idea of change. I see it when I’m doing therapist work all the time.
> People
> want to shoot me up with gear, well, so what, I could do with a bit > more
> rest at times anyway. Preston’s there shaking his head so much it’s
about
> to
> fall off or something, yeah well that’s life.
>
> And hey, Francis, I like what you write. You have guts, man. Yeah, this
is
> the IBOGAINE list, not heroin-excuses.net. It’s true you can write
> anything
> you want on this list but if you want to take a stand on addiction in a
> meaningful way, then you have to be able to take a bit of shit. Keep
doing
> what you’re doing, guy, cause you’ve got the guts and that’s what’s
> needed.
>
> With love
>
> Nick
>
>
>
>
>
>> Am I wrong? I know Marc Emery used to deliver up these
>> 20 page rants about why junkies are sick and potheads
>> are healthy. Couldn’t have had anything to do with his
>> son being a junkie 😉
>>
>> Love to all, especially to everyone writing 15 angry
>> letters to the list each day! 🙂
>>
>> Carla B
>>
>> — The Garden <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>> > Hi Nick!!
>> >               Your post generate a lot of turmoil
>> > 🙂
>> > That all good, I mean this is free mailing list. You
>> > have few people
>> > who are
>> > acting like they own the list and want to control or
>> > censure everything
>> > that
>> > they don’t like.
>> >
>> > To keep simple :I have made a small list of  taboo
>> > subjects:
>> >
>> > TTR subjects: when someone try to explain an addict
>> > how to Take Total
>> > Responsability for his own action.
>> > Spiritual subject : rejection by some of the
>> > contribuitors of anything
>> > relating to the spiritual realm.
>> > Help subjects: ” don’t try to help me , I am doing
>> > good, let me shoot my
>> > dope ”
>> > AA and NA subjects: ” thoses f……g  hugers”
>> > Character defects : ” don’t tell me I am selfish,
>> > dishonest, lazy…ect
>> > ”
>> > Judgment : ” nothing is wrong, nothing is bad…. ”
>> > Restriction or control of drugs availability.
>> >
>> > Here is the list   of hip subjects that will work to
>> > make new friends
>> > and
>> > eventualy get laid , if you are in New york area
>> >   You should seriously take in consideration this
>> > bag of tools
>> > Drugz
>> > Music ( avoid classical and religious )
>> > Movies
>> > How much I use to shoot
>> > Self justification
>> > You scrach my back, I scrach your back
>> > Flattery
>> > Drugz pop culture.
>> > Atheism
>> > Outrage to the hypocrisy of various institutions and
>> > organizations,
>> > specialy
>> > religious.
>> >
>> > God bless
>> > Francis
>> >
>> >
>> > —– Original Message —–
>> > From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
>> > To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>> > Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 8:33 AM
>> > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism
>> >
>> >
>> > > Nick wrote >Then I thought about this dialogue for
>> > while, and whether
>> > > I’m
>> > > like
>> > > totally off for writing like this, and I realized
>> > I’m totally fine with
>> > it.
>> > > If the German government wants to push addicts who
>> > are fucking up a bit
>> > > harder, I think it’s ok. That’s my position.<
>> > >
>> > > And I still ask, so how do you feel about someone
>> > else who feels
>> > completely
>> > > opposite to you forcing you, or pushing you
>> > towards their viewpoint by
>> > > force? Is that cool too, or is it only cool to
>> > force other people to
>> > > your
>> > > viewpoint Nick?
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Peace and love,
>> > > Preston Peet
>> > >
>> > > “Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for
>> > enlightenment is
>> > > often
>> > > mistaken for madness”
>> > > Richard Davenport-Hines
>> > >
>> > > ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
>> > > Editor http://www.drugwar.com
>> > > Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation
>> > Guide to Drugs”
>> > > Editor “Mysterious Roots- The Disinformation Guide
>> > to Ancient
>> > Civilizations,
>> > > Explorations and Enigmas” (due out Sept. 2005)
>> > > Cont. High Times mag/.com
>> > > Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
>> > > Columnist New York Waste
>> > > Etc.
>> > >
>> > > —– Original Message —–
>> > > From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
>> > > To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>> > > Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 5:27 AM
>> > > Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>> —–Original Message—–
>> > >>> From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
>> > >>> Sent: 27 January 2005 00:35
>> > >>> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>> > >>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary
>> > fascism
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>>> Get your shit together and do it. Heroin’s days
>> > are
>> > >>> numbered, man.<
>> > >>>
>> > >>> I’m not taking heroin.
>> > >>> Though there have been a couple times over the
>> > last few years
>> > >>> where I have
>> > >>> relented and bought a bag or three, those times
>> > were extremely
>> > >>> few and far
>> > >>> between and are a while past now. Not a year
>> > yet, but over half at
>> > least,
>> > >>> probably closer to nine months or so since last
>> > time I did that.
>> > >>>
>> > >>>> If you find
>> > >>> these emails scarey then, fuck man, recognize
>> > that – you get scared
>> > >>> by
>> > >>> emails suggesting you’re gonna be pushed into
>> > looking harder at
>> > >>> yourself. It
>> > >>> provokes a big reaction, look at that. You’re an
>> > aware guy. Check it
>> > >>> out.<
>> > >>>
>> > >>> You’re missing the point Nick.
>> > >>> The scary thing about your emails is that you
>> > seem to be serious,
>> > >>> that you
>> > >>> support forcing other people to submit to your
>> > views by force. This
>> > >>> is
>> > >>> mostly scary to me because I’m just now
>> > discovering this, and now I’m
>> > >>> concerned because I don’t know what I’ve
>> > divulged on list you may
>> > >>> have read
>> > >>> and will one day decide to rat me or someone
>> > else out over
>> > >>> because you think
>> > >>> it would do us good to have someone drag us out
>> > of our homes and
>> > >>> teach
>> > us
>> > >>> the better, or your way anyway. That’s what
>> > scares me, not
>> > >>> looking harder at
>> > >>> myself. I don’t have a single problem with that
>> > particular issue,
>> > >>> of looking
>> > >>> deep and hard within myself, and that you might
>> > think I do have
>> > >>> issue with
>> > >>> that is another thing that leaves me shaking my
>> > head, considering
>> > >>> just how
>> > >>> open I am and always have been about myself and
>> > my feelings and
>> > >>> emotions on
>> > >>> this list. The reaction is notr the looking
>> > inside myself, it’s
>> > >>> you thinking
>> > >>> it’s ok to force others to your way of living
>> > and thinking. That’s a
>> > >>> terrible way to go through life in my opinion,
>> > and I’m glad I’m
>> > >>> not somehow
>> > >>> under your control. That’s a fate I am glad I’ve
>> > so far escaped
>> > >>> and hope I
>> > >>> continue to do so for a long, long time.
>> > >>>
>> > >>
>> > >> Hi Preston,
>> > >>
>> > >> Yeah, well, personally, I had a nice scream and
>> > shout for 10 minutes
>> > this
>> > >> morning. Then I thought about this dialogue for
>> > while, and whether I’m
>> > >> like
>> > >> totally off for writing like this, and I realized
>> > I’m totally fine
>> > >> with
>> > >> it.
>> > >> If the German government wants to push addicts
>> > who are fucking up a
>> > >> bit
>> > >> harder, I think it’s ok. That’s my position.
>> > >>
>> > >> love
>> > >>
>> > >> Nick
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>> Peace and love,
>> > >>> Preston
>> > >>>
>> > >>> “Madness is not enlightenment, but the search
>> > for enlightenment is
>> > often
>> > >>> mistaken for madness”
>> > >>> Richard Davenport-Hines
>> > >>>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>>
>> __________________________________________________
>> Do You Yahoo!?
>> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>> http://mail.yahoo.com
>>
>>
>>
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From: “Allison Senepart” <paradisepaint@callsouth.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Not me !!
Date: January 29, 2005 at 7:25:09 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Someone posted an article about so called drug re-hab in Russia a while back that was scary and extremely harsh and cruel.  Can’t remember who posted it but it is well worth reading especially for anyone discussing mandatory removal of addicts.  I sure as hell wouldn’t want to be subjected to their idea of rehabilitation treatment and can’t imagine anyone else would either.  Allison

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Sunday, 30 January 2005 10:44:00 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Not me !!

Hi !!
I want to make clear that I am not at all involve with this idea of
mandatory removal of addicts from the society.
That Nick idea, not mine.

I understand Nick point, but I believe more in ” freedom or death ” like the
Greck of the island of Crete use to engrave on the blade of their
knife…..This is a matter of principle.

God bless
Francis

>
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.

From: knowone knowwhere <kn0m0n3@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Listening
Date: January 29, 2005 at 7:19:58 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi All,

Jasen, the physcal part was ruff for me too, but I
knew that going in and welcomed all the help I could
get.  What you write reminds me that I am still
wondering….  What is Normal?….ie is ‘normal’ going
to be the same ‘normal’ I felt on methadone when
‘stabalized’…. I can only say for me it’s different,
but as time goes by my body gets stronger even at this
stage which suprises me, but I welcome it for sure.
What is kindof wierd is when my body really started
letting go was the week following getting new
contacts/glasses.  New Vision perhaps effected the way
I was looking at things and perhaps opened up some
opportunities, or maybe it was just coincidence.

The lower dose didn’t keep me up like the normal
ones did.  I slept 14 hours afterwards, a good heavy
11 hour sleep.  The question for me is do I feel
tired/sleepy/fatigue…Tired: no.  Sleepy: no.
Fatigue: sure, but the law of diminishing returns
seems to apply but I’m not sure up to what point yet.

When my multi-year TAmazepam script expired, a
Kava/melatonin Mix is what I used, 3:1
I’ve been at 6 hours a day for a while now.  Before
any Ibo I was 9-14 hours a day.

Cheers,-J

— Jasen Chamoun <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au> wrote:

Hey Julie,

I can say that now I get 6 to 8 hours sleep in one
night.
No matter what time I go to sleep,..my eyes open at
day break,..which here is about 5:30.

I have been taking herbs for sleep from a
naturopath,
I am also still taking Kava and valerian,..(both
herbs),
as well as the liquid herbs.

I have a love/hate relationship with these herbs

The other night after drinking some wine with dinner
(which I used to dislike),..I went to bed and woke
up
at 1:30am,..I could not go back to sleep,..I took
some
more Kava,..after a couple of hours got back to
sleep.
When I told a Naturapath I was told this is around
the liver time,..(1:30am).

I am still waiting to feel normal???But then what is
normal?
I have to stop sitting around waiting to feel
good,..I do
feel good in my mind (the freedom) but my
body,..well,..
it’s getting better,..very very slowly.

Aaaaarrrgh,..f*ck,..that seems to help sometimes.
At times I feel like a big baby and other times I
feel
like I can restle a bear.(Well,..a very small tame
bear.)

The more I excersise the better I feel,..however I
am not
doing much of that,..you guys know what that’s
like,..you
need to move but don’t have the energy, you know you
have to push yourself,.. but don’t.

This is easy and hard at the same time,..sometimes I
want
to go within and hide from the world and other times
I
am out there,..laughing,..socialising..loving.My
life at the
moment is like a heart monitor.

with
love,..Jasen.
—– Original Message —–
From: “Ms Iboga” <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 8:06 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Jason, Randy, Jeff, FakeP,
Julian and others treated in
the last 4-5 months

Hi everyone,

My question is for those treated recently: how are
your sleeping patterns?  Is it just me, or do you
often wake up several times per night, for no
apparent
reason?  Or have your patterns returned to normal?

Melatonin seems to work pretty well, but only for
the
first 4-5 hours and then BOOM!!: I wake up between
3-6am, every single night, regardless of diet,
drug
intake, the day’s activities, etc….

I don’t want to complain, but it’s really starting
to
get to me.    I would really like to have 7 hours
of
uninterrupted sleep, and I just can’t seem to get
that
now.  Don’t want any benzos, but would like some
advice on how to improve quality of sleep…

smiles,
Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Meet the all-new My Yahoo! – Try it today!
http://my.yahoo.com

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From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Off Topic dot Min Van
Date: January 29, 2005 at 7:14:43 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

MIN VÄN (till Åsa)
Lycka är att ha en vän
att ha en vän som du
en vän som alltid finns för mig
min allra bästa vän

Du ställer upp och finns hos mig
när allt känns grått och kallt
den glädje som du bjuder på
den glädjen ger mig allt

Min vän du ger av allt du har
din vänskap är så stor
din tröst när allt känns hopplöst svårt
är större än du tror

Francis

You wrote :

genade, barmhartigheid, zegen, geluk, genadig,
barmhartig, gelukkig
miséricorde, clémence, pitié, compassion, pardon,
laisser aller

Erbarmen, Gnade, glückliche Fügung
Gnade! Erbarmen!

&#941;&#955;&#949;&#959;&#962;,
&#959;&#943;&#954;&#964;&#959;&#962;,
&#949;&#965;&#963;&#960;&#955;&#945;&#967;&#957;&#943;&#945;,
&#955;&#973;&#960;&#951;&#963;&#951;,
&#949;&#965;&#955;&#959;&#947;&#943;&#945;

misericordia, grazia, compassione

mercê (f), discrição, perdão (m)

&#1084;&#1080;&#1083;&#1086;&#1089;&#1077;&#1088;&#1076;&#1080;&#1077;,

&#1089;&#1086;&#1089;&#1090;&#1088;&#1072;&#1076;&#1072;&#1085;&#1080;&#1077
;,

&#1087;&#1086;&#1084;&#1080;&#1083;&#1086;&#1074;&#1072;&#1085;&#1080;&#1077
;

misericordia, clemencia, compasión
Clemencia!

barmhärtighet, lycka, tur

&#20161;&#24904;, &#24904;&#24754;, &#23485;&#24661;
&#22003;&#21568;!

&#20161;&#24904;, &#24904;&#24754;, &#23532;&#24661;
&#22127;&#21568;!

&#24904;&#24754;, &#23515;&#22823;&#12373;,
&#12354;&#12426;&#12364;&#12383;&#12356;&#12371;&#12392;

&#8207;(&#1575;&#1604;&#1575;&#1587;&#1605;)
&#1585;&#1581;&#1605;&#1607;,
&#1585;&#1571;&#1601;&#1607;&#8207;

&#8238;&#1512;&#1495;&#1502;&#1497;&#1501;,
&#1512;&#1495;&#1502;&#1504;&#1493;&#1514;,
&#1502;&#1494;&#1500;, &#1492;&#1511;&#1500;&#1492;,
&#1496;&#1493;&#1489;-&#1500;&#1489;,
&#1505;&#1500;&#1495;&#1504;&#1493;&#1514;&#8236;
&#8238;&#1511;&#1512;&#1497;&#1488;&#1514;
&#1492;&#1508;&#1514;&#1506;&#1492; &#1488;&#1493;
&#1508;&#1495;

___________________________________________________________
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From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Listening to music…..
Date: January 29, 2005 at 7:08:11 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Julie !!
What do you do when you wake up ? Do you eat something or eat something
sweet ?
—– Original Message —–
From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 6:08 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Listening to music…..

Hey Julie,

I can say that now I get 6 to 8 hours sleep in one night.
No matter what time I go to sleep,..my eyes open at
day break,..which here is about 5:30.

I have been taking herbs for sleep from a naturopath,
I am also still taking Kava and valerian,..(both herbs),
as well as the liquid herbs.

I have a love/hate relationship with these herbs

The other night after drinking some wine with dinner
(which I used to dislike),..I went to bed and woke up
at 1:30am,..I could not go back to sleep,..I took some
more Kava,..after a couple of hours got back to sleep.
When I told a Naturapath I was told this is around
the liver time,..(1:30am).

I am still waiting to feel normal???But then what is normal?
I have to stop sitting around waiting to feel good,..I do
feel good in my mind (the freedom) but my body,..well,..
it’s getting better,..very very slowly.

Aaaaarrrgh,..f*ck,..that seems to help sometimes.
At times I feel like a big baby and other times I feel
like I can restle a bear.(Well,..a very small tame bear.)

The more I excersise the better I feel,..however I am not
doing much of that,..you guys know what that’s like,..you
need to move but don’t have the energy, you know you
have to push yourself,.. but don’t.

This is easy and hard at the same time,..sometimes I want
to go within and hide from the world and other times I
am out there,..laughing,..socialising..loving.My life at the
moment is like a heart monitor.

with love,..Jasen.
—– Original Message —–
From: “Ms Iboga” <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 8:06 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Jason, Randy, Jeff, FakeP, Julian and others treated
in
the last 4-5 months

Hi everyone,

My question is for those treated recently: how are
your sleeping patterns?  Is it just me, or do you
often wake up several times per night, for no apparent
reason?  Or have your patterns returned to normal?

Melatonin seems to work pretty well, but only for the
first 4-5 hours and then BOOM!!: I wake up between
3-6am, every single night, regardless of diet, drug
intake, the day’s activities, etc….

I don’t want to complain, but it’s really starting to
get to me.    I would really like to have 7 hours of
uninterrupted sleep, and I just can’t seem to get that
now.  Don’t want any benzos, but would like some
advice on how to improve quality of sleep…

smiles,
Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Meet the all-new My Yahoo! – Try it today!
http://my.yahoo.com

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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[%]

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Listening to music…..
Date: January 29, 2005 at 6:08:30 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Julie,

I can say that now I get 6 to 8 hours sleep in one night.
No matter what time I go to sleep,..my eyes open at
day break,..which here is about 5:30.

I have been taking herbs for sleep from a naturopath,
I am also still taking Kava and valerian,..(both herbs),
as well as the liquid herbs.

I have a love/hate relationship with these herbs

The other night after drinking some wine with dinner
(which I used to dislike),..I went to bed and woke up
at 1:30am,..I could not go back to sleep,..I took some
more Kava,..after a couple of hours got back to sleep.
When I told a Naturapath I was told this is around
the liver time,..(1:30am).

I am still waiting to feel normal???But then what is normal?
I have to stop sitting around waiting to feel good,..I do
feel good in my mind (the freedom) but my body,..well,..
it’s getting better,..very very slowly.

Aaaaarrrgh,..f*ck,..that seems to help sometimes.
At times I feel like a big baby and other times I feel
like I can restle a bear.(Well,..a very small tame bear.)

The more I excersise the better I feel,..however I am not
doing much of that,..you guys know what that’s like,..you
need to move but don’t have the energy, you know you
have to push yourself,.. but don’t.

This is easy and hard at the same time,..sometimes I want
to go within and hide from the world and other times I
am out there,..laughing,..socialising..loving.My life at the
moment is like a heart monitor.

with love,..Jasen.
—– Original Message —– From: “Ms Iboga” <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 8:06 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Jason, Randy, Jeff, FakeP, Julian and others treated in the last 4-5 months

Hi everyone,

My question is for those treated recently: how are
your sleeping patterns?  Is it just me, or do you
often wake up several times per night, for no apparent
reason?  Or have your patterns returned to normal?

Melatonin seems to work pretty well, but only for the
first 4-5 hours and then BOOM!!: I wake up between
3-6am, every single night, regardless of diet, drug
intake, the day’s activities, etc….

I don’t want to complain, but it’s really starting to
get to me.    I would really like to have 7 hours of
uninterrupted sleep, and I just can’t seem to get that
now.  Don’t want any benzos, but would like some
advice on how to improve quality of sleep…

smiles,
Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Meet the all-new My Yahoo! – Try it today!
http://my.yahoo.com

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\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: knowone knowwhere <kn0m0n3@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Off Topic dot
Date: January 29, 2005 at 5:51:30 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

genade, barmhartigheid, zegen, geluk, genadig,
barmhartig, gelukkig
miséricorde, clémence, pitié, compassion, pardon,
laisser aller

Erbarmen, Gnade, glückliche Fügung
Gnade! Erbarmen!

&#941;&#955;&#949;&#959;&#962;,
&#959;&#943;&#954;&#964;&#959;&#962;,
&#949;&#965;&#963;&#960;&#955;&#945;&#967;&#957;&#943;&#945;,
&#955;&#973;&#960;&#951;&#963;&#951;,
&#949;&#965;&#955;&#959;&#947;&#943;&#945;

misericordia, grazia, compassione

mercê (f), discrição, perdão (m)

&#1084;&#1080;&#1083;&#1086;&#1089;&#1077;&#1088;&#1076;&#1080;&#1077;,
&#1089;&#1086;&#1089;&#1090;&#1088;&#1072;&#1076;&#1072;&#1085;&#1080;&#1077;,
&#1087;&#1086;&#1084;&#1080;&#1083;&#1086;&#1074;&#1072;&#1085;&#1080;&#1077;

misericordia, clemencia, compasión
Clemencia!

barmhärtighet, lycka, tur

&#20161;&#24904;, &#24904;&#24754;, &#23485;&#24661;
&#22003;&#21568;!

&#20161;&#24904;, &#24904;&#24754;, &#23532;&#24661;
&#22127;&#21568;!

&#24904;&#24754;, &#23515;&#22823;&#12373;,
&#12354;&#12426;&#12364;&#12383;&#12356;&#12371;&#12392;

&#8207;(&#1575;&#1604;&#1575;&#1587;&#1605;)
&#1585;&#1581;&#1605;&#1607;,
&#1585;&#1571;&#1601;&#1607;&#8207;

&#8238;&#1512;&#1495;&#1502;&#1497;&#1501;,
&#1512;&#1495;&#1502;&#1504;&#1493;&#1514;,
&#1502;&#1494;&#1500;, &#1492;&#1511;&#1500;&#1492;,
&#1496;&#1493;&#1489;-&#1500;&#1489;,
&#1505;&#1500;&#1495;&#1504;&#1493;&#1514;&#8236;
&#8238;&#1511;&#1512;&#1497;&#1488;&#1514;
&#1492;&#1508;&#1514;&#1506;&#1492; &#1488;&#1493;
&#1508;&#1495;

___________________________________________________________
ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

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From: “booker w” <swbooker@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Francis and Nick
Date: January 29, 2005 at 5:21:07 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi.  I’ve been trying to avoid this discussion, since it DOES seem pointless to try to change anyone’s mind.  But Nick, how about all the fat people…should we force them into “rehab” too, or at least go shopping with them and cook their food and exercise them.  They’re obviously draining the planet’s “good” vibes by their excess, not too mention all the animal suffering (it’s probably impossible to be fat and a vegan.)  I mention fatness because two of my best friends are literally dying from morbid obesity.  Watching them eat is like watching a dying junkie shoot up. It’s damn difficult to see, and I offer whatever I can for them, but I don’t support holding a gun to their head… (or forced rehab either.)
Preston, I support your position completely, but I think you’re probably right to give up the fight.  Nick, you’ve always been great to me, but yeah, I agree with Howard.  You were so into “the world is doomed,” and now I guess you’ve changed that stance and want to help alleviate suffering, which is great!  But, just like most of us, we want everyone else to change and think we know just how they should do it.  Don’t worry, I think that all the time myself, but I know it’s mistaken.  One of the precepts I was told over and over at AA;  that everything is happening just exactly the way it’s supposed to – so if Preston and myself are still “using,” that’s perfect.  Why that’s perfect, I don’t understand – but I don’t think anyone really understands any of it very well (even the “self-proclaimed gurus.”)  Another thing that I also learned in AA is that it’s not really my business what anyone else is doing.  Just concentrate on “my side of the street.”  (Another damn difficult thing to do.)  There’s chaos, then there’s order, then chaos again… that’s the only idea that makes any sense to me anymore…
Best to all, Sandy

>From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>

>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>

>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Francis and Nick

>Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 15:07:52 -0000

>

>Hi Howard,

>

>Many thanks for the link. Personally, I do not agree with Dr Cohen’s

>viewpoint. I do not agree that it is valid to administer a high-powered

>analgesic to oneself for a large portion of one’s time on this planet,

>(unless this is a strategy agreed on by medical professionals with regard to

>the individual). My opinion is that this is a life-negating orientation and

>I oppose it. I believe that doing so emotionally disenfranchises the

>individual from society with overall deleterious effects on our planetary

>life. Even worse, it’s a fucking drag. That’s my position!

>

>with love

>

>Nick

>

/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Jason, Randy, Jeff, FakeP, Julian and others treated in the last 4-5 months
Date: January 29, 2005 at 5:06:34 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi everyone,

My question is for those treated recently: how are
your sleeping patterns?  Is it just me, or do you
often wake up several times per night, for no apparent
reason?  Or have your patterns returned to normal?

Melatonin seems to work pretty well, but only for the
first 4-5 hours and then BOOM!!: I wake up between
3-6am, every single night, regardless of diet, drug
intake, the day’s activities, etc….

I don’t want to complain, but it’s really starting to
get to me.    I would really like to have 7 hours of
uninterrupted sleep, and I just can’t seem to get that
now.  Don’t want any benzos, but would like some
advice on how to improve quality of sleep…

smiles,
Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Meet the all-new My Yahoo! – Try it today!
http://my.yahoo.com

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
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From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Not me !!
Date: January 29, 2005 at 4:43:27 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi !!
I want to make clear that I am not at  all involve with this idea of
mandatory removal of addicts from the society.
That Nick idea, not mine.

I understand Nick point, but I believe more in ” freedom or death ” like the
Greck  of the island of Crete use to engrave on the blade of their
knife…..This is a matter of principle.

God bless
Francis

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Francis to Preston
Date: January 29, 2005 at 3:53:15 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: Vector Vector [mailto:vector620022002@yahoo.com]
Sent: 29 January 2005 20:20
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Francis to Preston

I’ve been reading this list for years and when I think I understand
alot of it, I always turn out to be wrong 🙂

I’m not a drug addict, I’ve never done heroin or crack, or even wanted
to.

If there is any one thing that I think I’ve learned more then anything,
it’s that addiction is the great equalizer and it can get people from
such different backgrounds and viewpoints at least conversing, when
normally they wouldn’t be in the same room together.

I don’t agree with what you or Nick are saying here which I think isn’t
a big problem, we have different opinions.

My question to both of you is and please correct me if I’m wrong, I
believe that I have a opinion and that means I can choose to live my
life according to my beliefs and I can accept that others have
different opinions.

The way I’m reading what both of you are writing is, that your opinion
is different then mine, because your opinion is more right or moral.
Since you know what’s best for me and everybody else, your opinion
should be a mandate and everyone should be doing whatever it is that
you feel is best.

Am I wrong or putting words in your mouths?

.:vector:.

Hey Vector, I think I may have answered your question approaching ten times
in the last couple of days. But, wth, let’s go for it again, viz….

…Personally, I do not agree with Dr Cohen’s
viewpoint. I do not agree that it is valid to administer a high-powered
analgesic to oneself for a large portion of one’s time on this planet,
(unless this is a strategy agreed on by medical professionals with regard to
the individual). My opinion is that this is a life-negating orientation and
I oppose it. I believe that doing so emotionally disenfranchises the
individual from society with overall deleterious effects on our planetary
life…..I think it is fine that government introduce coercive measure to
move socially errant addicts towards treatment and rehab……..

I am NOT saying I am Right and You are Wrong. I am not talking about morals.
I do not oppose your belief “that I have a opinion and that means I can
choose to live my life according to my beliefs and I can accept that others
have different opinions.” It is fine with me. I am simply stating My
Position. I….Am……Simply……Stating……My…….Position.

If you wish to INTERPRET this position and extrapol8 a series of moral
perspectives, then pronounce relative judgements on these perspectives
according to whatever beliefs you have from Your Position then, shit man,
don’t let me stop you, interpret away, everyone else does. I’ll listen. Just
don’t expect me to defend a perspective that you have created yourself and
have claimed is mine.

Am I being unreasonable here?

Nick

— The Garden <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net> wrote:

using and are trying to ” control the harm ” Just say : I can’t stop
and
don’t try to justify it. That is very confusing for people who are
seeking
for help. They could think : ” that  Ibogaine thing  is not working
..”
when
Ibogaine is the only thing that could work for them.

By the way , I don;t believe that the state should be allowed to
force
addicts to quit. This works only in totalitarian states. Mao Ste Tung

style.
We live in  democraties and the interest of democraties is to promote

the
use of drugz.and alcohol and to destroy our values and  roots. You
read
it
clear….
Why ? I can answer this question in detail in another E-Mail if
somebody is
interested.

God bless
Francis

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Francis to Preston
Date: January 29, 2005 at 3:19:32 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’ve been reading this list for years and when I think I understand
alot of it, I always turn out to be wrong 🙂

I’m not a drug addict, I’ve never done heroin or crack, or even wanted
to.

If there is any one thing that I think I’ve learned more then anything,
it’s that addiction is the great equalizer and it can get people from
such different backgrounds and viewpoints at least conversing, when
normally they wouldn’t be in the same room together.

I don’t agree with what you or Nick are saying here which I think isn’t
a big problem, we have different opinions.

My question to both of you is and please correct me if I’m wrong, I
believe that I have a opinion and that means I can choose to live my
life according to my beliefs and I can accept that others have
different opinions.

The way I’m reading what both of you are writing is, that your opinion
is different then mine, because your opinion is more right or moral.
Since you know what’s best for me and everybody else, your opinion
should be a mandate and everyone should be doing whatever it is that
you feel is best.

Am I wrong or putting words in your mouths?

.:vector:.

— The Garden <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net> wrote:

using and are trying to ” control the harm ” Just say : I can’t stop
and
don’t try to justify it. That is very confusing for people who are
seeking
for help. They could think : ” that  Ibogaine thing  is not working
..”
when
Ibogaine is the only thing that could work for them.

By the way , I don;t believe that the state should be allowed to
force
addicts to quit. This works only in totalitarian states. Mao Ste Tung

style.
We live in  democraties and the interest of democraties is to promote

the
use of drugz.and alcohol and to destroy our values and  roots. You
read
it
clear….
Why ? I can answer this question in detail in another E-Mail if
somebody is
interested.

God bless
Francis

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Francis to Preston
Date: January 29, 2005 at 2:15:34 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Preston !!

I would had bet you will answer my E-Mail 🙂

You wrote :

And hey, Francis, I like what you write. You have guts, man. Yeah, this
is
the IBOGAINE list, not heroin-excuses.net. It’s true you can write
anything
you want on this list but if you want to take a stand on addiction in a
meaningful way, then you have to be able to take a bit of shit. Keep doing
what you’re doing, guy, cause you’ve got the guts and that’s what’s
needed.<

* # Thank you for your undestanding. I don’t have guts, no more than
everybody else, for sure  :-).
What’s excatly a meaninful way to take a stand to addiction, for you ?
For me addiction is the contrary of  L I V E = E VI L.. .
I am willing to take a bit of shit but not too much either.;-)
” soft like a rose, but like a tiger when is a matter of principle”

You wrote
Francis recently wrote some comment along the lines of “I can’t believe
someone who has taken ibogaine is still promoting drug use,” or something
along these lines, and you take the position that by taking ibogaine there
is one and just one result expected or valid- all other responces on the
part of the individual who took/takes ibogaine are not valid or worth
listening to if it isn’t “I want nothing to do with drugs now,” or “my
life
should now be an open book to all and sundry and they should behave and
think like me or the state should be allowed to force them to do so,”
again,
something along these lines.

* #  No, No, No I never said that 🙂 You are distorting my writting, You
are tryng to read in my mind something that is not there. but you covert
smartly all this with a sort of disclosure ; ” again,
something along these lines. ” My point is simple and clear : If you are
using and are trying to ” control the harm ” Just say : I can’t stop and
don’t try to justify it. That is very confusing for people who are seeking
for help. They could think : ” that  Ibogaine thing  is not working ..” when
Ibogaine is the only thing that could work for them.

By the way , I don;t believe that the state should be allowed to force
addicts to quit. This works only in totalitarian states. Mao Ste Tung style.
We live in  democraties and the interest of democraties is to promote the
use of drugz.and alcohol and to destroy our values and  roots. You read it
clear….
Why ? I can answer this question in detail in another E-Mail if somebody is
interested.

God bless
Francis

(I mean, now you’re defining this list for
crying out loud. Boy, you’ve got a lot of fucking nerve. How is what I’m
talking about, or anyone else for that matter, any less about ibogaine
than
what you are or what you would like to discuss? I mean it, what the hell
does that mean, “this is an ibogaine list, not heroin-excuses.net?” Did
you
miss the post about how I am not taking heroin? Even were I, so what? How
would my discussing my thoughts about addiction, opiates and more on this
list make it not about ibogaine- insert bad word here- ?)

🙂 I was not talking particularly of you, but if you feel this was about
you, I can’t stop you…..
I’m really tired of this conversation actually. I’m tired of reading
from you Nick that my reactions and my thoughts about ibogaine aren’t
valid
and are somehow incorrect because I’m of the opinion that we can (and
should) chose to use ibogaine as we will as individuals, not as some
others
want me/us to do so. I cannot say I’m sorry I’m not getting the same
things
from my ibogaine experiences that you are, because I’m not, not in the
slightest. I did get (and am still getting, even in part from this here
list
for crying out loud- and for that matter was even before I tried ibogaine)
quite a lot out of my experiences and am firmly of the opinion that it
should be as available as any and all other drugs (though, as with
everything, I’m sure I could find exceptions to this notion, both about
ibo
and about the other drugs), that it definitely was a very spiritual
experience that gave me a lot of hope and clarity, and I admit to feeling
a
lot of confusion about things in general.
But then, I will probably always feel confusion about things in
general
Nick, Francis and all. I am not someone who can find it in himself to ever
say “my way or the highway,” or “my way by force you unenlightened types”
nor “I know what’s best and wish everyone would do it my way because gee
wouldn’t the world be nice and happy when full of Prestons,” or anything
that remotely implies I have “THE” answer.
I’m a pretty tolerant person Nick, which is why I have so much trouble
with the notion you appear to be promoting. I’d never ever come at people
the way you are, and figure I’d live in a sheltered community where
everyone
else is just like me or striving to be, too if I felt like you about the
world and my place in it.
But you’re welcome to it. Just don’t try to force me ever to your
view.
You can call me a junky or whatever to-you-derogatory you’d like, I don’t
mind. I will continue to be happily in love, writing and publishing and
living and getting the most I can out of my life, helping to do my part to
prove that no matter what drug or non-drug we each chose to use that we
are
all capable of loving and being loved and don’t deserve jail.
You do what you want.

What I see more and more is that a lot (by no means all) of the
people that ibogaine attracts just want something that’s going to take all
their problems away without them having to move their whole position in
life
even one millimetre. Well, in my experience it’s not impossible that could
happen but it is relatively unlikely.<

What I also get out of your writing is that you imply and assume a hell of
a
lot about other people with no justification whatsoever. I’ve…
Ah, fuck it, this is ridiculous.
Why am I bothering wasting my time on you Nick? This is utterly pointless.
You continue doing what you are, I’ll do the same and stop wasting my
precious time arguing this with you.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Mysterious Roots- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
Civilizations,
Explorations and Enigmas” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 6:03 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Francis and Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: Carla Barnes [mailto:carlambarnes@yahoo.com]
Sent: 28 January 2005 01:32
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Francis and Nick

Francis………. you’re being a grouch 😉

Hi Nick, you haven’t posted too much in the last year
but aren’t you one of the people who might have a lot
of personal feelings about drug addiction due to one
of your family members being a junkie? I’m sorry I
don’t remember if it was your son or your brother, but
there was someone in your family youve dosed with
ibogaine a lot of times and no matter what you tried
or wanted them to do they would not get clean.

In spite of all your self awareness, isn’t it possible
you might have a teeny little bit of anger at them?
😉

Hi Carla,

Yes, it’s true, my adoptive brother Ken has had a long term heroin
problem
in the past and in the late 90s I tried to help him with ibogaine.
Currently, he claims to be clean but I have my doubts, personally. Yes,
I
did use to get very pissed off when I tried to communicate with him and

felt
I couldn’t really get through to him. However, this doesn’t really drive
me
crazy or anything, though it does still upset me at times. I mean, long
before he was a druggie he was spaced out and I learned to find people
that
could communicate with me and not just put it on him that HE had to
change.
Though for him, it’s true I also think it would be fine if the
government
took a stronger stance. And, yeah, if it happened, he would ring me up
and
tell me they’re being nazis or whatever.

Really, to be honest, I feel like I’ve learned a lot from these
dialogues
about just where people who are coming toward ibogaine actually are in
terms
of coming towards getting off drugs. Now that ibogaine’s getting bigger
in
the UK, I’ve people on at me daily to help them get it (I run a website
on
ibogaine). What I see more and more is that a lot (by no means all) of
the
people that ibogaine attracts just want something that’s going to take
all
their problems away without them having to move their whole position in
life
even one millimetre. Well, in my experience it’s not impossible that
could
happen but it is relatively unlikely.

Same thing in these dialogues. Granted it’s only a few people that
respond
but basically all I have said is that I support the German government in
its
moves to curb addiction and that sometimes I feel like dragging people
out
of their homes to participate in life a bit more. From this it’s like,
I’m
a
nazi or it’s to do with the jews in the war or Christ knows what. To me,
to
be honest, this is just the basic layer of resistance the psyche has to
the
idea of change. I see it when I’m doing therapist work all the time.
People
want to shoot me up with gear, well, so what, I could do with a bit more
rest at times anyway. Preston’s there shaking his head so much it’s
about
to
fall off or something, yeah well that’s life.

And hey, Francis, I like what you write. You have guts, man. Yeah, this
is
the IBOGAINE list, not heroin-excuses.net. It’s true you can write
anything
you want on this list but if you want to take a stand on addiction in a
meaningful way, then you have to be able to take a bit of shit. Keep
doing
what you’re doing, guy, cause you’ve got the guts and that’s what’s
needed.

With love

Nick

Am I wrong? I know Marc Emery used to deliver up these
20 page rants about why junkies are sick and potheads
are healthy. Couldn’t have had anything to do with his
son being a junkie 😉

Love to all, especially to everyone writing 15 angry
letters to the list each day! 🙂

Carla B

— The Garden <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net> wrote:

Hi Nick!!
Your post generate a lot of turmoil
🙂
That all good, I mean this is free mailing list. You
have few people
who are
acting like they own the list and want to control or
censure everything
that
they don’t like.

To keep simple :I have made a small list of  taboo
subjects:

TTR subjects: when someone try to explain an addict
how to Take Total
Responsability for his own action.
Spiritual subject : rejection by some of the
contribuitors of anything
relating to the spiritual realm.
Help subjects: ” don’t try to help me , I am doing
good, let me shoot my
dope ”
AA and NA subjects: ” thoses f……g  hugers”
Character defects : ” don’t tell me I am selfish,
dishonest, lazy…ect

Judgment : ” nothing is wrong, nothing is bad…. ”
Restriction or control of drugs availability.

Here is the list   of hip subjects that will work to
make new friends
and
eventualy get laid , if you are in New york area
You should seriously take in consideration this
bag of tools
Drugz
Music ( avoid classical and religious )
Movies
How much I use to shoot
Self justification
You scrach my back, I scrach your back
Flattery
Drugz pop culture.
Atheism
Outrage to the hypocrisy of various institutions and
organizations,
specialy
religious.

God bless
Francis

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 8:33 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism

Nick wrote >Then I thought about this dialogue for
while, and whether
I’m
like
totally off for writing like this, and I realized
I’m totally fine with
it.
If the German government wants to push addicts who
are fucking up a bit
harder, I think it’s ok. That’s my position.<

And I still ask, so how do you feel about someone
else who feels
completely
opposite to you forcing you, or pushing you
towards their viewpoint by
force? Is that cool too, or is it only cool to
force other people to
your
viewpoint Nick?

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for
enlightenment is
often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation
Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Mysterious Roots- The Disinformation Guide
to Ancient
Civilizations,
Explorations and Enigmas” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 5:27 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: 27 January 2005 00:35
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary
fascism

Get your shit together and do it. Heroin’s days
are
numbered, man.<

I’m not taking heroin.
Though there have been a couple times over the
last few years
where I have
relented and bought a bag or three, those times
were extremely
few and far
between and are a while past now. Not a year
yet, but over half at
least,
probably closer to nine months or so since last
time I did that.

If you find
these emails scarey then, fuck man, recognize
that – you get scared
by
emails suggesting you’re gonna be pushed into
looking harder at
yourself. It
provokes a big reaction, look at that. You’re an
aware guy. Check it
out.<

You’re missing the point Nick.
The scary thing about your emails is that you
seem to be serious,
that you
support forcing other people to submit to your
views by force. This
is
mostly scary to me because I’m just now
discovering this, and now I’m
concerned because I don’t know what I’ve
divulged on list you may
have read
and will one day decide to rat me or someone
else out over
because you think
it would do us good to have someone drag us out
of our homes and
teach
us
the better, or your way anyway. That’s what
scares me, not
looking harder at
myself. I don’t have a single problem with that
particular issue,
of looking
deep and hard within myself, and that you might
think I do have
issue with
that is another thing that leaves me shaking my
head, considering
just how
open I am and always have been about myself and
my feelings and
emotions on
this list. The reaction is notr the looking
inside myself, it’s
you thinking
it’s ok to force others to your way of living
and thinking. That’s a
terrible way to go through life in my opinion,
and I’m glad I’m
not somehow
under your control. That’s a fate I am glad I’ve
so far escaped
and hope I
continue to do so for a long, long time.

Hi Preston,

Yeah, well, personally, I had a nice scream and
shout for 10 minutes
this
morning. Then I thought about this dialogue for
while, and whether I’m
like
totally off for writing like this, and I realized
I’m totally fine
with
it.
If the German government wants to push addicts
who are fucking up a
bit
harder, I think it’s ok. That’s my position.

love

Nick

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search
for enlightenment is
often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

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From: “….Ken” <chayco@island.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism
Date: January 29, 2005 at 1:45:58 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>

Ken, man, I am fine with empathy. But it is not the only tool in therapy.

There’s come a point where, if you care, you have to not just sit by
empathising while people are destroying themselves. You can start to take
a
position, this is also possible. This is what I am learning to do.

About Thailand, I did not know that this was happening. Can I ask you, is
it
your position that you believe that in Europe and the US a simiar thing
would happen? Is that what you genuinely believe? If “Yes” then I think
it’s
fine you resist, if you are in genuine fear of your life. Who wouldn’t.

Hello Nick,

I believe you may not quite understand what empathy means….but lets leave
that.

I believe something similar could possibly happen in the U.S. ,but most
probably not in Europe and Canada.
The American peoples complicity regarding the attack on Iraq showed just how
fearful the average American is of
showing dissent towards their government when it has the bloodlust.

The trouble with ‘resisting’ is that these programs only affect the weak and
are supported by the comfortable. You say “who wouldn’t”….(resist) .  Nick
,would you assist drug addicts and from being rounded up and placed in
‘detox camps’  against their will ? When the round up was going on in
Thailand the general population supported it, these were ‘bad’ people. The
ones who were killed was by ‘accident’ or the police were provoked, or it
really was druggies shooting each other, all within three months….then it
stopped, wars over folks. Today, there is some collective guilt concerning
the killings, but at the time the country was in bloodlust and the
government brooked no dissent.

There might be a few books you could read concerning social engineeing.

…Ken

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From: knowone knowwhere <kn0m0n3@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Bwiti on BBC
Date: January 29, 2005 at 1:44:18 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Would it be difficult to but on-line I wonder?

Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 16:58:30 +0000 (GMT)
From:  “Lee Albert” <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk>   Add to
Address Book

To: eboga@elistas.com
Subject: Re: [eboga] Re: TV Ibogaine Documentary
Monday 24 Jan Att. Luke

Hi Donna,

It must have been good. My web site had about 300 hits
in the last 2 days as opposed to a healthy 40 with a
sudden jump on Amazon.co.uk for the book – what that
means I dont actually know. I seem to be getting more
attention for the book in the UK. I thought originally
it would be more popular in the US. Goes to show
nothing is predictable. More and more I am letting go
of everything and saying to myself: let it all flow.
Being centered in oneself and sensing a calmness
without the need to push has got to be a good thing.
Lee

AbbotAngel@aol.com wrote:
HI Lee

It was good this guy went to live in the tribe for a
month and had the ibo initaiation ceremony, really
interesting
Love Donna

Theres obviously a lot of cultural influence in the
experience. I would like to do an initiation down
there when the time is right.

Lee

lchristoffersen@hotmail.com wrote:
Hi Lee,
I taped the program last night. It was quite good.
They guy spends a month with living with the tribe so
we get a glimps at how they live and hunt. What we see
of the initiation is quite short, partially due to
secrecty. The visions could not be disclosed to the
uninitiated.

I was suprised that it was actualy the guy who does
the program, Bruce Perry, going through the
initiation.

Luke

———————————————————————
You’re subscribed to this list with the email
my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk
To unsubscribe, send a message to
eboga-unsubscribe@elistas.com
For more information, visit
http://www.eListas.com/list/eboga

— Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Just wondered if anyone saw this programme, screened
earlier in the week on
BBC 2 in the UK, and what they thought.

Nick

Tribe Ep 4/6
9.00-10.00pm BBC TWO

Explorer Bruce Parry faces one of his toughest tests
yet as he is inducted
into Bwiti, a rainforest religion practised by the
Babongo people of Gabon.
He’s right to be worried – on occasion the ritual,
which involves consuming
an overdose of a powerful hallucinogenic, Iboga, has
proved fatal. Tribe
follows Bruce’s build-up to the ceremony, as he goes
hunting, collecting
forest honey and spends time getting to know his
newfriends, before they
judge the time is right for his “rebirthing” ritual.
The drug, Bruce
believes, acts on the areas of the brain where
guiltand remorse lie buried,
allowing people to see themselves as they really
are, warts and all. His
initiation starts as he is fed the tree root,
prompting several hours of
vomiting, said to purge the soul. His tongue is
pricked with a needle to
stimulate speech, while his Bwiti “father” feeds
strips of the root to him,
singing softly. Bruce’s recollection of the visions
that follow include
vivid memories of childhood, harsh recollections of
people he had hurt, even
inadvertently, throughout his life, and a sense of
the Earth as a vast
living organism in which everything is connected.
The final phase of the
journey sees the tribe dancing with fire and
encouraging Bruce to make sense
of the shapes he sees in the flames. After reviewing
his visions, Bruce is
determined to revisit a few people whose point of
view he saw more clearly
while under the influence of the drug, to apologise
for any hurt he caused.
Of his emotional experience with the tribe he says:
“They have given me
something so special, I shall take a piece of this
village [with me]
wherever I go for the rest of my life.”

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Bwiti on BBC
Date: January 29, 2005 at 1:26:10 PM EST
To: “Ibogaine Mindvox” <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Just wondered if anyone saw this programme, screened earlier in the week on
BBC 2 in the UK, and what they thought.

Nick

Tribe Ep 4/6
9.00-10.00pm BBC TWO

Explorer Bruce Parry faces one of his toughest tests yet as he is inducted
into Bwiti, a rainforest religion practised by the Babongo people of Gabon.
He’s right to be worried – on occasion the ritual, which involves consuming
an overdose of a powerful hallucinogenic, Iboga, has proved fatal. Tribe
follows Bruce’s build-up to the ceremony, as he goes hunting, collecting
forest honey and spends time getting to know his newfriends, before they
judge the time is right for his “rebirthing” ritual. The drug, Bruce
believes, acts on the areas of the brain where guiltand remorse lie buried,
allowing people to see themselves as they really are, warts and all. His
initiation starts as he is fed the tree root, prompting several hours of
vomiting, said to purge the soul. His tongue is pricked with a needle to
stimulate speech, while his Bwiti “father” feeds strips of the root to him,
singing softly. Bruce’s recollection of the visions that follow include
vivid memories of childhood, harsh recollections of people he had hurt, even
inadvertently, throughout his life, and a sense of the Earth as a vast
living organism in which everything is connected. The final phase of the
journey sees the tribe dancing with fire and encouraging Bruce to make sense
of the shapes he sees in the flames. After reviewing his visions, Bruce is
determined to revisit a few people whose point of view he saw more clearly
while under the influence of the drug, to apologise for any hurt he caused.
Of his emotional experience with the tribe he says: “They have given me
something so special, I shall take a piece of this village [with me]
wherever I go for the rest of my life.”

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From: Re-Elect Bush/Cheney 08 Or Else <reelectbushcheney2008@yahoo.ca>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Francis and Nick
Date: January 29, 2005 at 1:23:26 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
I don’t recall saying that I know what is best for
everyone.

ok, Nick, do you recall implying that about Heroin
Junkies??

I guess your gentle tone led me to believe this may
also include poly-drug users, etc.

And I don’t
recall saying that total abstinence is the only goal
of ibo treatment.

Sure.  Have some ‘taters.

Now for the best part:

with love

Nick

LOL

That is your position, ok.  Glad I don’t have to
loose
anymore sleep over wondering what you think.

Do you have the ability to be a non-therapist?
What is it about the therapist/patient
relationship
that you enjoy so much?

Do you actually think “rehab” is in everyones
best
interest???
That’s funny Nick.

Just because your web site kicks serious
ass
doesn’t mean you know whats best for people.

I don’t know what’s best for everyone, and I
know
that.  Do you?

If total absitinence is the only goal with Ibo,
then
I feel we are really wasting its potential.
That conference back in November that Patrick
moderated was called Harm Reduction Conf.

If my memory serves correct, this is a heroin
maintence place too 😉

Hi Mr or Mrs no-name,

And I don’t
recall saying that total abstinence is the only goal
of ibo treatment. And I
don’t recall saying Mussolini was God. Oh shit, you
haven’t quoted me as
saying that one yet. But just in case you do.

I know it makes for less exciting reading to have to
stick to what has
actually been stated. I do sympathise. But, man how
could you say that
everyone should be a heroin addict forever,
regardless of their personal
feelings about it? That’s really radical.

If you wanna stick to what’s stated I’m happy to
discuss more. Otherwise….

with love

Nick

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______________________________________________________________________
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] cynicism and ibogaine
Date: January 29, 2005 at 11:37:05 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: ekki [mailto:ekkijdfg@gmx.de]
Sent: 29 January 2005 16:05
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] cynicism and ibogaine

Personally, if Ekki wants to complain
about the German government trying to fence addicts in, well, to me,
it’s
fair enough what they do. Freedom of speech and action is one thing,
but if
you have to keep stuffing the world’s most powerful painkiller into you
day-in-day-out simply to maintain your perspective on the world, then I
think it’s fine the world pushes you to look deeper. I think it’s
totally
fine.

but nick, i DON´T DO HEROIN anymore. i came into direct contact with
heroin just do days ago. i could have have some for free, but i didn´t
do any. also i don´t smoke, drink or use other drugs anymore. so you
think its ok to punish people who have already stopped by themselves?

Hi Ekki,

OK, so THIS is what actually happened! I didn’t get that bit before! No I
don’t think it’s ok the government does this to you. I think it’s bad. And I
would happily assist you with it if you think I can. You can get hold of me
on or off list.

love

Nick

i´m actually trying to help others you want to quit.
anyway how can you constantly check, judge and evaluate other people?
you won´t make the world a better place like this!

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Francis and Nick
Date: January 29, 2005 at 11:32:20 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: 29 January 2005 16:02
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Francis and Nick

I apologize to you Nick and to the list for flying off the handle
over this
issue. It’s silly, yes I may be reading a bit too much into what you’re
saying Nick (although I don’t understand how you think the government can
coerce people into rehabilitating themselves into a way that some in the
government think they should be without doing it by force).
I’m spending way too much time on this, and allowing it to
unsettle me way
beyond any ryhme or reason.
I’m also spending too much bandwidth on everyone else. so enough.
Again, my sincere apologies for blurting out here on-list at you Nick and
subjecting the rest of the list to my unreasonable ire.

Hi Preston,

Many thanks. I appreciate it. About using more coercive rehab and/or
ibogaine strategies, for sure it would be contentious and there would need
to be good protocols set up, initially short-term project lengths, and a
good level of outside assessment, but I definitely think it is a good
direction to move in. That’s me.

love

Nick

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Francis and Nick
Date: January 29, 2005 at 11:21:27 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: Re-Elect Bush/Cheney 08 Or Else
[mailto:reelectbushcheney2008@yahoo.ca]
Sent: 29 January 2005 15:45
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Francis and Nick

— Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
I do not agree that it is valid to
administer a high-powered
analgesic to oneself for a large portion of one’s
time on this planet,
(unless this is a strategy agreed on by medical
professionals with regard to
the individual). My opinion is that this is a
life-negating orientation and
I oppose it. I believe that doing so emotionally
disenfranchises the
individual from society with overall deleterious
effects on our planetary
life. Even worse, it’s a fucking drag. That’s my
position!

with love

Nick

That is your position, ok.  Glad I don’t have to loose
anymore sleep over wondering what you think.

Do you have the ability to be a non-therapist?
What is it about the therapist/patient relationship
that you enjoy so much?

Do you actually think “rehab” is in everyones best
interest???
That’s funny Nick.

Just because your web site kicks serious ass
doesn’t mean you know whats best for people.

I don’t know what’s best for everyone, and I know
that.  Do you?

If total absitinence is the only goal with Ibo, then
I feel we are really wasting its potential.
That conference back in November that Patrick
moderated was called Harm Reduction Conf.

If my memory serves correct, this is a heroin
maintence place too 😉

Hi Mr or Mrs no-name,

I don’t recall saying that I know what is best for everyone. And I don’t
recall saying that total abstinence is the only goal of ibo treatment. And I
don’t recall saying Mussolini was God. Oh shit, you haven’t quoted me as
saying that one yet. But just in case you do.

I know it makes for less exciting reading to have to stick to what has
actually been stated. I do sympathise. But, man how could you say that
everyone should be a heroin addict forever, regardless of their personal
feelings about it? That’s really radical.

If you wanna stick to what’s stated I’m happy to discuss more. Otherwise….

with love

Nick

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Francis and Nick
Date: January 29, 2005 at 11:06:48 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

but despite my very sincere apology, you are indeed a very scary individual.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Mysterious Roots- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Explorations and Enigmas” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 10:07 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Francis and Nick

Hi Howard,

Many thanks for the link. Personally, I do not agree with Dr Cohen’s
viewpoint. I do not agree that it is valid to administer a high-powered
analgesic to oneself for a large portion of one’s time on this planet,
(unless this is a strategy agreed on by medical professionals with regard to
the individual). My opinion is that this is a life-negating orientation and
I oppose it. I believe that doing so emotionally disenfranchises the
individual from society with overall deleterious effects on our planetary
life. Even worse, it’s a fucking drag. That’s my position!

with love

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com [mailto:HSLotsof@aol.com]
Sent: 29 January 2005 13:38
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Francis and Nick

In a message dated 1/29/05 6:04:03 AM, nick227@tiscali.co.uk writes:

>
>Same thing in these dialogues. Granted it’s only a few people
that respond
>but basically all I have said is that I support the German government in
>its moves to curb addiction and that sometimes I feel like
dragging people
>out of their homes to participate in life a bit more. From this
it’s like,
>I’m a nazi or it’s to do with the jews in the war or Christ
knows what. To
me,
>to be honest, this is just the basic layer of resistance the
psyche has to
>the idea of change. I see it when I’m doing therapist work all the time.
People
>want to shoot me up with gear, well, so what, I could do with a bit more
>rest at times anyway. Preston’s there shaking his head so much it’s >about
>to fall off or something, yeah well that’s life.

Hi Nick,

Did you read Peter Cohen’s writing in the HRC ibogaine roundtable
report.
Peter got dana quite upset but, I think his writing may be
directed more at you.
What do you think of his thoughts?
http://www.doraweiner.org/aatod_hrc.html
(see ibogaine roundtable review and the link to his full article
from there
if you wish).  It seems to me that over the years you have gone
from a “world
is doom” to a “world should be controlled” philosophy and that of
course is not
an unnatural course or events.  It is just that that control
concept in the
US with prohibition and our prison industrial complex gives me a lot of
concern.  And I guess it is not just the US but, I am here.

Howard

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From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] cynicism and ibogaine
Date: January 29, 2005 at 11:05:26 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Personally, if Ekki wants to complain
about the German government trying to fence addicts in, well, to me, it’s
fair enough what they do. Freedom of speech and action is one thing, but if
you have to keep stuffing the world’s most powerful painkiller into you
day-in-day-out simply to maintain your perspective on the world, then I
think it’s fine the world pushes you to look deeper. I think it’s totally
fine.

but nick, i DON´T DO HEROIN anymore. i came into direct contact with heroin just do days ago. i could have have some for free, but i didn´t do any. also i don´t smoke, drink or use other drugs anymore. so you think its ok to punish people who have already stopped by themselves? i´m actually trying to help others you want to quit.
anyway how can you constantly check, judge and evaluate other people? you won´t make the world a better place like this!

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Francis and Nick
Date: January 29, 2005 at 11:01:50 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I apologize to you Nick and to the list for flying off the handle over this issue. It’s silly, yes I may be reading a bit too much into what you’re saying Nick (although I don’t understand how you think the government can coerce people into rehabilitating themselves into a way that some in the government think they should be without doing it by force).
I’m spending way too much time on this, and allowing it to unsettle me way beyond any ryhme or reason.
I’m also spending too much bandwidth on everyone else. so enough.
Again, my sincere apologies for blurting out here on-list at you Nick and subjecting the rest of the list to my unreasonable ire.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Mysterious Roots- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Explorations and Enigmas” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 9:50 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Francis and Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: 29 January 2005 13:54
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Francis and Nick

>And hey, Francis, I like what you write. You have guts, man.
Yeah, this is
the IBOGAINE list, not heroin-excuses.net. It’s true you can
write anything
you want on this list but if you want to take a stand on addiction in a
meaningful way, then you have to be able to take a bit of shit. Keep doing
what you’re doing, guy, cause you’ve got the guts and that’s
what’s needed.<

Francis recently wrote some comment along the lines of “I can’t believe
someone who has taken ibogaine is still promoting drug use,” or something
along these lines, and you take the position that by taking
ibogaine there
is one and just one result expected or valid- all other responces on the
part of the individual who took/takes ibogaine are not valid or worth
listening to if it isn’t “I want nothing to do with drugs now,”
or “my life
should now be an open book to all and sundry and they should behave and
think like me or the state should be allowed to force them to do
so,” again,

Hey Preston,

I would be grateful if you could explain to me how I am saying these things!
I don’t believe I have said such a thing. I think it would be great if you
could paraphrase your insights with something like “How I interpret what
Nick is saying is……” or “How I interpret what you are saying is….” Can
we please go for that? As it is, it seems to me you interpret what I’m
saying in any way that allows you to then critcize that interpretation and
insinuate I am somehow a fascist or whatever. I don’t find this so exciting
really. And I don’t think it does anything for meaningful communication.

Nothing that you have written above is anything that I have ever said, to
the best of my knowledge, and it certainly isn’t my opinion.

something along these lines.     (I mean, now you’re defining
this list for
crying out loud.

Well, I said it was the IBOGAINE list. I said it wasn’t heroin-excuses.net.
Is this wrong?

Boy, you’ve got a lot of fucking nerve. How is what I’m
talking about, or anyone else for that matter, any less about
ibogaine than
what you are or what you would like to discuss? I mean it, what the hell
does that mean, “this is an ibogaine list, not
heroin-excuses.net?” Did you
miss the post about how I am not taking heroin? Even were I, so what? How
would my discussing my thoughts about addiction, opiates and more on this
list make it not about ibogaine- insert bad word here- ?)
I’m really tired of this conversation actually. I’m tired of reading
from you Nick that my reactions and my thoughts about ibogaine
aren’t valid
and are somehow incorrect because I’m of the opinion that we can (and
should) chose to use ibogaine as we will as individuals, not as
some others
want me/us to do so.

Well, I expect I would be tired of reading that too, had someone said it
repeatedly to me. But I haven’t actually said it even once, as far as I’m
aware. Man, seems to me you just wanna argue with yourself or something.

I cannot say I’m sorry I’m not getting the
same things
from my ibogaine experiences that you are, because I’m not, not in the
slightest. I did get (and am still getting, even in part from
this here list
for crying out loud- and for that matter was even before I tried
ibogaine)
quite a lot out of my experiences and am firmly of the opinion that it
should be as available as any and all other drugs (though, as with
everything, I’m sure I could find exceptions to this notion, both
about ibo
and about the other drugs), that it definitely was a very spiritual
experience that gave me a lot of hope and clarity, and I admit to
feeling a
lot of confusion about things in general.
But then, I will probably always feel confusion about things
in general
Nick, Francis and all. I am not someone who can find it in
himself to ever
say “my way or the highway,” or “my way by force you unenlightened types”
nor “I know what’s best and wish everyone would do it my way because gee
wouldn’t the world be nice and happy when full of Prestons,” or anything
that remotely implies I have “THE” answer.
I’m a pretty tolerant person Nick, which is why I have so
much trouble
with the notion you appear to be promoting. I’d never ever come at people
the way you are, and figure I’d live in a sheltered community
where everyone
else is just like me or striving to be, too if I felt like you about the
world and my place in it.
But you’re welcome to it. Just don’t try to force me ever to
your view.
You can call me a junky or whatever to-you-derogatory you’d like, I don’t
mind. I will continue to be happily in love, writing and publishing and
living and getting the most I can out of my life, helping to do
my part to
prove that no matter what drug or non-drug we each chose to use
that we are
all capable of loving and being loved and don’t deserve jail.
You do what you want.

Preston, I am NOT trying to upset you. That is not my intention. And I have
not suggested that you or anyone else should be sent to jail. I have spoken
of using ibogaine and rehab in a therapeutic community and of allowing
governments to coerce socially errant addicts into this mode of treatment.

I’m fine if you don’t want to push your opinions out on people. For me, part
of my own development is that I am becoming more pro-active. I am becoming
more aware of how I can make change in the world and that is what I am
learning to do. And I am happy to take feedback. And I am aware that
sometimes good intentions in this area can sometimes change into
neo-fascism. But  I am not saying you should be put in prison and I am not
forcing anyone to take my viewpoint. I am just writing emails, stating my
thoughts and opinions. I would be great if you could see that, then I’m sure
we could become closer.

with love

Nick

>What I see more and more is that a lot (by no means all) of the
people that ibogaine attracts just want something that’s going to take all
their problems away without them having to move their whole
position in life
even one millimetre. Well, in my experience it’s not impossible that could
happen but it is relatively unlikely.<

What I also get out of your writing is that you imply and assume
a hell of a
lot about other people with no justification whatsoever. I’ve…
Ah, fuck it, this is ridiculous.
Why am I bothering wasting my time on you Nick? This is utterly pointless.
You continue doing what you are, I’ll do the same and stop wasting my
precious time arguing this with you.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

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From: Re-Elect Bush/Cheney 08 Or Else <reelectbushcheney2008@yahoo.ca>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Francis and Nick
Date: January 29, 2005 at 10:44:52 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
I do not agree that it is valid to
administer a high-powered
analgesic to oneself for a large portion of one’s
time on this planet,
(unless this is a strategy agreed on by medical
professionals with regard to
the individual). My opinion is that this is a
life-negating orientation and
I oppose it. I believe that doing so emotionally
disenfranchises the
individual from society with overall deleterious
effects on our planetary
life. Even worse, it’s a fucking drag. That’s my
position!

with love

Nick

That is your position, ok.  Glad I don’t have to loose
anymore sleep over wondering what you think.

Do you have the ability to be a non-therapist?
What is it about the therapist/patient relationship
that you enjoy so much?

Do you actually think “rehab” is in everyones best
interest???
That’s funny Nick.

Just because your web site kicks serious ass
doesn’t mean you know whats best for people.

I don’t know what’s best for everyone, and I know
that.  Do you?

If total absitinence is the only goal with Ibo, then
I feel we are really wasting its potential.
That conference back in November that Patrick
moderated was called Harm Reduction Conf.

If my memory serves correct, this is a heroin
maintence place too 😉

______________________________________________________________________
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Francis and Nick
Date: January 29, 2005 at 10:07:52 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Howard,

Many thanks for the link. Personally, I do not agree with Dr Cohen’s
viewpoint. I do not agree that it is valid to administer a high-powered
analgesic to oneself for a large portion of one’s time on this planet,
(unless this is a strategy agreed on by medical professionals with regard to
the individual). My opinion is that this is a life-negating orientation and
I oppose it. I believe that doing so emotionally disenfranchises the
individual from society with overall deleterious effects on our planetary
life. Even worse, it’s a fucking drag. That’s my position!

with love

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com [mailto:HSLotsof@aol.com]
Sent: 29 January 2005 13:38
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Francis and Nick

In a message dated 1/29/05 6:04:03 AM, nick227@tiscali.co.uk writes:

Same thing in these dialogues. Granted it’s only a few people
that respond
but basically all I have said is that I support the German government in
its moves to curb addiction and that sometimes I feel like
dragging people
out of their homes to participate in life a bit more. From this
it’s like,
I’m a nazi or it’s to do with the jews in the war or Christ
knows what. To
me,
to be honest, this is just the basic layer of resistance the
psyche has to
the idea of change. I see it when I’m doing therapist work all the time.
People
want to shoot me up with gear, well, so what, I could do with a bit more
rest at times anyway. Preston’s there shaking his head so much it’s about
to fall off or something, yeah well that’s life.

Hi Nick,

Did you read Peter Cohen’s writing in the HRC ibogaine roundtable
report.
Peter got dana quite upset but, I think his writing may be
directed more at you.
What do you think of his thoughts?
http://www.doraweiner.org/aatod_hrc.html
(see ibogaine roundtable review and the link to his full article
from there
if you wish).  It seems to me that over the years you have gone
from a “world
is doom” to a “world should be controlled” philosophy and that of
course is not
an unnatural course or events.  It is just that that control
concept in the
US with prohibition and our prison industrial complex gives me a lot of
concern.  And I guess it is not just the US but, I am here.

Howard

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Bradblog
Date: January 29, 2005 at 10:04:20 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks to Dr. Tom, for posting this…you know, I
didn’t see these protests covered in the media.  I’m
willing to admit I might have missed the coverage,
but….

I particularly like the sign that read “War is
late-term abortion…”

Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less.
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Francis and Nick
Date: January 29, 2005 at 9:50:11 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: 29 January 2005 13:54
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Francis and Nick

And hey, Francis, I like what you write. You have guts, man.
Yeah, this is
the IBOGAINE list, not heroin-excuses.net. It’s true you can
write anything
you want on this list but if you want to take a stand on addiction in a
meaningful way, then you have to be able to take a bit of shit. Keep doing
what you’re doing, guy, cause you’ve got the guts and that’s
what’s needed.<

Francis recently wrote some comment along the lines of “I can’t believe
someone who has taken ibogaine is still promoting drug use,” or something
along these lines, and you take the position that by taking
ibogaine there
is one and just one result expected or valid- all other responces on the
part of the individual who took/takes ibogaine are not valid or worth
listening to if it isn’t “I want nothing to do with drugs now,”
or “my life
should now be an open book to all and sundry and they should behave and
think like me or the state should be allowed to force them to do
so,” again,

Hey Preston,

I would be grateful if you could explain to me how I am saying these things!
I don’t believe I have said such a thing. I think it would be great if you
could paraphrase your insights with something like “How I interpret what
Nick is saying is……” or “How I interpret what you are saying is….” Can
we please go for that? As it is, it seems to me you interpret what I’m
saying in any way that allows you to then critcize that interpretation and
insinuate I am somehow a fascist or whatever. I don’t find this so exciting
really. And I don’t think it does anything for meaningful communication.

Nothing that you have written above is anything that I have ever said, to
the best of my knowledge, and it certainly isn’t my opinion.

something along these lines.     (I mean, now you’re defining
this list for
crying out loud.

Well, I said it was the IBOGAINE list. I said it wasn’t heroin-excuses.net.
Is this wrong?

Boy, you’ve got a lot of fucking nerve. How is what I’m
talking about, or anyone else for that matter, any less about
ibogaine than
what you are or what you would like to discuss? I mean it, what the hell
does that mean, “this is an ibogaine list, not
heroin-excuses.net?” Did you
miss the post about how I am not taking heroin? Even were I, so what? How
would my discussing my thoughts about addiction, opiates and more on this
list make it not about ibogaine- insert bad word here- ?)
I’m really tired of this conversation actually. I’m tired of reading
from you Nick that my reactions and my thoughts about ibogaine
aren’t valid
and are somehow incorrect because I’m of the opinion that we can (and
should) chose to use ibogaine as we will as individuals, not as
some others
want me/us to do so.

Well, I expect I would be tired of reading that too, had someone said it
repeatedly to me. But I haven’t actually said it even once, as far as I’m
aware. Man, seems to me you just wanna argue with yourself or something.

I cannot say I’m sorry I’m not getting the
same things
from my ibogaine experiences that you are, because I’m not, not in the
slightest. I did get (and am still getting, even in part from
this here list
for crying out loud- and for that matter was even before I tried
ibogaine)
quite a lot out of my experiences and am firmly of the opinion that it
should be as available as any and all other drugs (though, as with
everything, I’m sure I could find exceptions to this notion, both
about ibo
and about the other drugs), that it definitely was a very spiritual
experience that gave me a lot of hope and clarity, and I admit to
feeling a
lot of confusion about things in general.
But then, I will probably always feel confusion about things
in general
Nick, Francis and all. I am not someone who can find it in
himself to ever
say “my way or the highway,” or “my way by force you unenlightened types”
nor “I know what’s best and wish everyone would do it my way because gee
wouldn’t the world be nice and happy when full of Prestons,” or anything
that remotely implies I have “THE” answer.
I’m a pretty tolerant person Nick, which is why I have so
much trouble
with the notion you appear to be promoting. I’d never ever come at people
the way you are, and figure I’d live in a sheltered community
where everyone
else is just like me or striving to be, too if I felt like you about the
world and my place in it.
But you’re welcome to it. Just don’t try to force me ever to
your view.
You can call me a junky or whatever to-you-derogatory you’d like, I don’t
mind. I will continue to be happily in love, writing and publishing and
living and getting the most I can out of my life, helping to do
my part to
prove that no matter what drug or non-drug we each chose to use
that we are
all capable of loving and being loved and don’t deserve jail.
You do what you want.

Preston, I am NOT trying to upset you. That is not my intention. And I have
not suggested that you or anyone else should be sent to jail. I have spoken
of using ibogaine and rehab in a therapeutic community and of allowing
governments to coerce socially errant addicts into this mode of treatment.

I’m fine if you don’t want to push your opinions out on people. For me, part
of my own development is that I am becoming more pro-active. I am becoming
more aware of how I can make change in the world and that is what I am
learning to do. And I am happy to take feedback. And I am aware that
sometimes good intentions in this area can sometimes change into
neo-fascism. But  I am not saying you should be put in prison and I am not
forcing anyone to take my viewpoint. I am just writing emails, stating my
thoughts and opinions. I would be great if you could see that, then I’m sure
we could become closer.

with love

Nick

What I see more and more is that a lot (by no means all) of the
people that ibogaine attracts just want something that’s going to take all
their problems away without them having to move their whole
position in life
even one millimetre. Well, in my experience it’s not impossible that could
happen but it is relatively unlikely.<

What I also get out of your writing is that you imply and assume
a hell of a
lot about other people with no justification whatsoever. I’ve…
Ah, fuck it, this is ridiculous.
Why am I bothering wasting my time on you Nick? This is utterly pointless.
You continue doing what you are, I’ll do the same and stop wasting my
precious time arguing this with you.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Francis and Nick
Date: January 29, 2005 at 8:53:59 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

And hey, Francis, I like what you write. You have guts, man. Yeah, this is
the IBOGAINE list, not heroin-excuses.net. It’s true you can write anything
you want on this list but if you want to take a stand on addiction in a
meaningful way, then you have to be able to take a bit of shit. Keep doing
what you’re doing, guy, cause you’ve got the guts and that’s what’s needed.<

Francis recently wrote some comment along the lines of “I can’t believe someone who has taken ibogaine is still promoting drug use,” or something along these lines, and you take the position that by taking ibogaine there is one and just one result expected or valid- all other responces on the part of the individual who took/takes ibogaine are not valid or worth listening to if it isn’t “I want nothing to do with drugs now,” or “my life should now be an open book to all and sundry and they should behave and think like me or the state should be allowed to force them to do so,” again, something along these lines.     (I mean, now you’re defining this list for crying out loud. Boy, you’ve got a lot of fucking nerve. How is what I’m talking about, or anyone else for that matter, any less about ibogaine than what you are or what you would like to discuss? I mean it, what the hell does that mean, “this is an ibogaine list, not heroin-excuses.net?” Did you miss the post about how I am not taking heroin? Even were I, so what? How would my discussing my thoughts about addiction, opiates and more on this list make it not about ibogaine- insert bad word here- ?)
I’m really tired of this conversation actually. I’m tired of reading from you Nick that my reactions and my thoughts about ibogaine aren’t valid and are somehow incorrect because I’m of the opinion that we can (and should) chose to use ibogaine as we will as individuals, not as some others want me/us to do so. I cannot say I’m sorry I’m not getting the same things from my ibogaine experiences that you are, because I’m not, not in the slightest. I did get (and am still getting, even in part from this here list for crying out loud- and for that matter was even before I tried ibogaine) quite a lot out of my experiences and am firmly of the opinion that it should be as available as any and all other drugs (though, as with everything, I’m sure I could find exceptions to this notion, both about ibo and about the other drugs), that it definitely was a very spiritual experience that gave me a lot of hope and clarity, and I admit to feeling a lot of confusion about things in general.
But then, I will probably always feel confusion about things in general Nick, Francis and all. I am not someone who can find it in himself to ever say “my way or the highway,” or “my way by force you unenlightened types” nor “I know what’s best and wish everyone would do it my way because gee wouldn’t the world be nice and happy when full of Prestons,” or anything that remotely implies I have “THE” answer.
I’m a pretty tolerant person Nick, which is why I have so much trouble with the notion you appear to be promoting. I’d never ever come at people the way you are, and figure I’d live in a sheltered community where everyone else is just like me or striving to be, too if I felt like you about the world and my place in it.
But you’re welcome to it. Just don’t try to force me ever to your view. You can call me a junky or whatever to-you-derogatory you’d like, I don’t mind. I will continue to be happily in love, writing and publishing and living and getting the most I can out of my life, helping to do my part to prove that no matter what drug or non-drug we each chose to use that we are all capable of loving and being loved and don’t deserve jail.
You do what you want.

What I see more and more is that a lot (by no means all) of the
people that ibogaine attracts just want something that’s going to take all
their problems away without them having to move their whole position in life
even one millimetre. Well, in my experience it’s not impossible that could
happen but it is relatively unlikely.<

What I also get out of your writing is that you imply and assume a hell of a lot about other people with no justification whatsoever. I’ve…
Ah, fuck it, this is ridiculous.
Why am I bothering wasting my time on you Nick? This is utterly pointless.
You continue doing what you are, I’ll do the same and stop wasting my precious time arguing this with you.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Mysterious Roots- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Explorations and Enigmas” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 6:03 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Francis and Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: Carla Barnes [mailto:carlambarnes@yahoo.com]
Sent: 28 January 2005 01:32
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Francis and Nick

Francis………. you’re being a grouch 😉

Hi Nick, you haven’t posted too much in the last year
but aren’t you one of the people who might have a lot
of personal feelings about drug addiction due to one
of your family members being a junkie? I’m sorry I
don’t remember if it was your son or your brother, but
there was someone in your family youve dosed with
ibogaine a lot of times and no matter what you tried
or wanted them to do they would not get clean.

In spite of all your self awareness, isn’t it possible
you might have a teeny little bit of anger at them?
😉

Hi Carla,

Yes, it’s true, my adoptive brother Ken has had a long term heroin problem
in the past and in the late 90s I tried to help him with ibogaine.
Currently, he claims to be clean but I have my doubts, personally. Yes, I
did use to get very pissed off when I tried to communicate with him and felt
I couldn’t really get through to him. However, this doesn’t really drive me
crazy or anything, though it does still upset me at times. I mean, long
before he was a druggie he was spaced out and I learned to find people that
could communicate with me and not just put it on him that HE had to change.
Though for him, it’s true I also think it would be fine if the government
took a stronger stance. And, yeah, if it happened, he would ring me up and
tell me they’re being nazis or whatever.

Really, to be honest, I feel like I’ve learned a lot from these dialogues
about just where people who are coming toward ibogaine actually are in terms
of coming towards getting off drugs. Now that ibogaine’s getting bigger in
the UK, I’ve people on at me daily to help them get it (I run a website on
ibogaine). What I see more and more is that a lot (by no means all) of the
people that ibogaine attracts just want something that’s going to take all
their problems away without them having to move their whole position in life
even one millimetre. Well, in my experience it’s not impossible that could
happen but it is relatively unlikely.

Same thing in these dialogues. Granted it’s only a few people that respond
but basically all I have said is that I support the German government in its
moves to curb addiction and that sometimes I feel like dragging people out
of their homes to participate in life a bit more. From this it’s like, I’m a
nazi or it’s to do with the jews in the war or Christ knows what. To me, to
be honest, this is just the basic layer of resistance the psyche has to the
idea of change. I see it when I’m doing therapist work all the time. People
want to shoot me up with gear, well, so what, I could do with a bit more
rest at times anyway. Preston’s there shaking his head so much it’s about to
fall off or something, yeah well that’s life.

And hey, Francis, I like what you write. You have guts, man. Yeah, this is
the IBOGAINE list, not heroin-excuses.net. It’s true you can write anything
you want on this list but if you want to take a stand on addiction in a
meaningful way, then you have to be able to take a bit of shit. Keep doing
what you’re doing, guy, cause you’ve got the guts and that’s what’s needed.

With love

Nick

Am I wrong? I know Marc Emery used to deliver up these
20 page rants about why junkies are sick and potheads
are healthy. Couldn’t have had anything to do with his
son being a junkie 😉

Love to all, especially to everyone writing 15 angry
letters to the list each day! 🙂

Carla B

— The Garden <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net> wrote:

> Hi Nick!!
>               Your post generate a lot of turmoil
> 🙂
> That all good, I mean this is free mailing list. You
> have few people
> who are
> acting like they own the list and want to control or
> censure everything
> that
> they don’t like.
>
> To keep simple :I have made a small list of  taboo
> subjects:
>
> TTR subjects: when someone try to explain an addict
> how to Take Total
> Responsability for his own action.
> Spiritual subject : rejection by some of the
> contribuitors of anything
> relating to the spiritual realm.
> Help subjects: ” don’t try to help me , I am doing
> good, let me shoot my
> dope ”
> AA and NA subjects: ” thoses f……g  hugers”
> Character defects : ” don’t tell me I am selfish,
> dishonest, lazy…ect
> ”
> Judgment : ” nothing is wrong, nothing is bad…. ”
> Restriction or control of drugs availability.
>
> Here is the list   of hip subjects that will work to
> make new friends
> and
> eventualy get laid , if you are in New york area
>   You should seriously take in consideration this
> bag of tools
> Drugz
> Music ( avoid classical and religious )
> Movies
> How much I use to shoot
> Self justification
> You scrach my back, I scrach your back
> Flattery
> Drugz pop culture.
> Atheism
> Outrage to the hypocrisy of various institutions and
> organizations,
> specialy
> religious.
>
> God bless
> Francis
>
>
> —– Original Message —–
> From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
> To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
> Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 8:33 AM
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism
>
>
> > Nick wrote >Then I thought about this dialogue for
> while, and whether
> > I’m
> > like
> > totally off for writing like this, and I realized
> I’m totally fine with
> it.
> > If the German government wants to push addicts who
> are fucking up a bit
> > harder, I think it’s ok. That’s my position.<
> >
> > And I still ask, so how do you feel about someone
> else who feels
> completely
> > opposite to you forcing you, or pushing you
> towards their viewpoint by
> > force? Is that cool too, or is it only cool to
> force other people to
> > your
> > viewpoint Nick?
> >
> >
> >
> > Peace and love,
> > Preston Peet
> >
> > “Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for
> enlightenment is
> > often
> > mistaken for madness”
> > Richard Davenport-Hines
> >
> > ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
> > Editor http://www.drugwar.com
> > Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation
> Guide to Drugs”
> > Editor “Mysterious Roots- The Disinformation Guide
> to Ancient
> Civilizations,
> > Explorations and Enigmas” (due out Sept. 2005)
> > Cont. High Times mag/.com
> > Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
> > Columnist New York Waste
> > Etc.
> >
> > —– Original Message —–
> > From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
> > To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 5:27 AM
> > Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>> —–Original Message—–
> >>> From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
> >>> Sent: 27 January 2005 00:35
> >>> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary
> fascism
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Get your shit together and do it. Heroin’s days
> are
> >>> numbered, man.<
> >>>
> >>> I’m not taking heroin.
> >>> Though there have been a couple times over the
> last few years
> >>> where I have
> >>> relented and bought a bag or three, those times
> were extremely
> >>> few and far
> >>> between and are a while past now. Not a year
> yet, but over half at
> least,
> >>> probably closer to nine months or so since last
> time I did that.
> >>>
> >>>> If you find
> >>> these emails scarey then, fuck man, recognize
> that – you get scared
> >>> by
> >>> emails suggesting you’re gonna be pushed into
> looking harder at
> >>> yourself. It
> >>> provokes a big reaction, look at that. You’re an
> aware guy. Check it
> >>> out.<
> >>>
> >>> You’re missing the point Nick.
> >>> The scary thing about your emails is that you
> seem to be serious,
> >>> that you
> >>> support forcing other people to submit to your
> views by force. This
> >>> is
> >>> mostly scary to me because I’m just now
> discovering this, and now I’m
> >>> concerned because I don’t know what I’ve
> divulged on list you may
> >>> have read
> >>> and will one day decide to rat me or someone
> else out over
> >>> because you think
> >>> it would do us good to have someone drag us out
> of our homes and
> >>> teach
> us
> >>> the better, or your way anyway. That’s what
> scares me, not
> >>> looking harder at
> >>> myself. I don’t have a single problem with that
> particular issue,
> >>> of looking
> >>> deep and hard within myself, and that you might
> think I do have
> >>> issue with
> >>> that is another thing that leaves me shaking my
> head, considering
> >>> just how
> >>> open I am and always have been about myself and
> my feelings and
> >>> emotions on
> >>> this list. The reaction is notr the looking
> inside myself, it’s
> >>> you thinking
> >>> it’s ok to force others to your way of living
> and thinking. That’s a
> >>> terrible way to go through life in my opinion,
> and I’m glad I’m
> >>> not somehow
> >>> under your control. That’s a fate I am glad I’ve
> so far escaped
> >>> and hope I
> >>> continue to do so for a long, long time.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Hi Preston,
> >>
> >> Yeah, well, personally, I had a nice scream and
> shout for 10 minutes
> this
> >> morning. Then I thought about this dialogue for
> while, and whether I’m
> >> like
> >> totally off for writing like this, and I realized
> I’m totally fine
> >> with
> >> it.
> >> If the German government wants to push addicts
> who are fucking up a
> >> bit
> >> harder, I think it’s ok. That’s my position.
> >>
> >> love
> >>
> >> Nick
> >>
> >>
> >>> Peace and love,
> >>> Preston
> >>>
> >>> “Madness is not enlightenment, but the search
> for enlightenment is
> often
> >>> mistaken for madness”
> >>> Richard Davenport-Hines
> >>>
> >>
> >>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Francis and Nick
Date: January 29, 2005 at 8:37:50 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 1/29/05 6:04:03 AM, nick227@tiscali.co.uk writes:

Same thing in these dialogues. Granted it’s only a few people that respond
but basically all I have said is that I support the German government in
its moves to curb addiction and that sometimes I feel like dragging people
out of their homes to participate in life a bit more. From this it’s like,
I’m a nazi or it’s to do with the jews in the war or Christ knows what. To
me,
to be honest, this is just the basic layer of resistance the psyche has to
the idea of change. I see it when I’m doing therapist work all the time.
People
want to shoot me up with gear, well, so what, I could do with a bit more
rest at times anyway. Preston’s there shaking his head so much it’s about
to fall off or something, yeah well that’s life.

Hi Nick,

Did you read Peter Cohen’s writing in the HRC ibogaine roundtable report.
Peter got dana quite upset but, I think his writing may be directed more at you.
What do you think of his thoughts?  http://www.doraweiner.org/aatod_hrc.html
(see ibogaine roundtable review and the link to his full article from there
if you wish).  It seems to me that over the years you have gone from a “world
is doom” to a “world should be controlled” philosophy and that of course is not
an unnatural course or events.  It is just that that control concept in the
US with prohibition and our prison industrial complex gives me a lot of
concern.  And I guess it is not just the US but, I am here.

Howard

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From: “FakePlacebo” <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To Miss Iboga
Date: January 29, 2005 at 7:34:04 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Julie,
Yep! my sleeping pattern is not very well, I use to wake up early without no
reason I miss sunday mornings sleep. But I feel happy. I started to feel
happy after Iboga (first time in my life) but sometimes I feel like I’m late
or I missed something that I don’t know what it is. :))
I have to find a economical way to smoke joint without tobacoo because I
gived up smoking cigs also. There is very hard to find hush pipe in Turkey.
Do you have any idea that how can I find hush pipe and filters?
I want to mailing with you off the list. Could you give me another mail
address wich is working for my mails.

Best Regards
FakePlacebo

—– Original Message —–
From: “Ms Iboga” <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 6:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To Miss Iboga

Hey FP,

No, I didn’t get them…weird…So glad to hear you’re
doing well.  How do you feel, overall?

My boyfriend and I are planning a trip to either
Mexico or Macchu Picchu…I love Latin America.  It’s
great to actually have money to spend on things other
than dope, like travelling.

How are your sleeping patterns?  Are they normal?  I’m
still waking up in the middle of the night, for no
apparent reason.

Talk to you soon,
Julie

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism
Date: January 29, 2005 at 7:05:56 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: ….Ken [mailto:chayco@island.net]
Sent: 27 January 2005 17:27
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism

—– Original Message —–
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
.

Listen ‘ere folks, Nick is alright…..a wee misdirected, but he will
grow
out of it.

The reason we all go grey when we age ….and evolve through personal
experience…is because it helps us understand that there just
aren’t black
and white answers anymore …….shades of grey…..different
prespectives.

I think someone should volunteer to go ‘underground’ and check out
Nick’s
peace and love camp and report back to the group.

…….Ken

YES! This would be a great idea! How about you, Ken?

Love

Nick

Thank you for the offer Nick, but I am afraid that I might be too
disruptive. If I ‘excorcised’ my need to just yell and yell to cleanse
myself (aka child’s tantrum) I might just become so enthralled with the
liberating feeling that I might feel the need to compliment the therapy by
throttling some therapist…..just a therapeutic throttle of course….to
free up the child within me.

Your new age nazi attitude has obviously shaken up some of your
peers here.
I would have thought that iboga would have a calmed you. Obviously
not….think about it Nick, you have to scream out loud like a 7 year old
boy  and you want to force change on those who don’t see things as you do.
It looks like classic symptoms of severe arrested development ..to me.

I admit that I do get a wee frustrated with the closed minded. I went
through the recent ‘3 month war on drugs’ in Thailand where 2300
drug users
were systematically rounded up and shot. Everyone was ratting on
each other
as they were in fear of their lives. People were ratting on straight folk
who they just didn’t like. The cops were put on a quota
system…they had to
capture/kill x number of suspects or they were fired. Thousands
were rounded
up and forced into army camp ‘detox’ centres…except the army
did not know
how to detox people….so they caged them until the folks were believed to
be ‘clean’.  This was just a year and a half ago Nick.

I have a new word for you to meditate on…………………empathy.

…..Ken

Ken, man, I am fine with empathy. But it is not the only tool in therapy.
There’s come a point where, if you care, you have to not just sit by
empathising while people are destroying themselves. You can start to take a
position, this is also possible. This is what I am learning to do.

About Thailand, I did not know that this was happening. Can I ask you, is it
your position that you believe that in Europe and the US a simiar thing
would happen? Is that what you genuinely believe? If “Yes” then I think it’s
fine you resist, if you are in genuine fear of your life. Who wouldn’t.

Love

Nick

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Francis and Nick
Date: January 29, 2005 at 6:52:40 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: Carla Barnes [mailto:carlambarnes@yahoo.com]
Sent: 28 January 2005 01:32
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Francis and Nick

Francis………. you’re being a grouch 😉

Hi Nick, you haven’t posted too much in the last year
but aren’t you one of the people who might have a lot
of personal feelings about drug addiction due to one
of your family members being a junkie? I’m sorry I
don’t remember if it was your son or your brother, but
there was someone in your family youve dosed with
ibogaine a lot of times and no matter what you tried
or wanted them to do they would not get clean.

In spite of all your self awareness, isn’t it possible
you might have a teeny little bit of anger at them?
😉

Hi Carla,

Yes, it’s true, my adoptive brother Ken has had a long term heroin problem
in the past and in the late 90s I tried to help him with ibogaine.
Currently, he claims to be clean but I have my doubts, personally. Yes, I
did use to get very pissed off when I tried to communicate with him and felt
I couldn’t really get through to him. However, this doesn’t really drive me
crazy or anything, though it does still upset me at times. I mean, long
before he was a druggie he was spaced out and I learned to find people that
could communicate with me and not just put it on him that HE had to change.
Though for him, it’s true I also think it would be fine if the government
took a stronger stance. And, yeah, if it happened, he would ring me up and
tell me they’re being nazis or whatever.

Really, to be honest, I feel like I’ve learned a lot from these dialogues
about just where people who are coming toward ibogaine actually are in terms
of coming towards getting off drugs. Now that ibogaine’s getting bigger in
the UK, I’ve people on at me daily to help them get it (I run a website on
ibogaine). What I see more and more is that a lot (by no means all) of the
people that ibogaine attracts just want something that’s going to take all
their problems away without them having to move their whole position in life
even one millimetre. Well, in my experience it’s not impossible that could
happen but it is relatively unlikely.

Same thing in these dialogues. Granted it’s only a few people that respond
but basically all I have said is that I support the German government in its
moves to curb addiction and that sometimes I feel like dragging people out
of their homes to participate in life a bit more. From this it’s like, I’m a
nazi or it’s to do with the jews in the war or Christ knows what. To me, to
be honest, this is just the basic layer of resistance the psyche has to the
idea of change. I see it when I’m doing therapist work all the time. People
want to shoot me up with gear, well, so what, I could do with a bit more
rest at times anyway. Preston’s there shaking his head so much it’s about to
fall off or something, yeah well that’s life.

And hey, Francis, I like what you write. You have guts, man. Yeah, this is
the IBOGAINE list, not heroin-excuses.net. It’s true you can write anything
you want on this list but if you want to take a stand on addiction in a
meaningful way, then you have to be able to take a bit of shit. Keep doing
what you’re doing, guy, cause you’ve got the guts and that’s what’s needed.

With love

Nick

Am I wrong? I know Marc Emery used to deliver up these
20 page rants about why junkies are sick and potheads
are healthy. Couldn’t have had anything to do with his
son being a junkie 😉

Love to all, especially to everyone writing 15 angry
letters to the list each day! 🙂

Carla B

— The Garden <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net> wrote:

Hi Nick!!
Your post generate a lot of turmoil
🙂
That all good, I mean this is free mailing list. You
have few people
who are
acting like they own the list and want to control or
censure everything
that
they don’t like.

To keep simple :I have made a small list of  taboo
subjects:

TTR subjects: when someone try to explain an addict
how to Take Total
Responsability for his own action.
Spiritual subject : rejection by some of the
contribuitors of anything
relating to the spiritual realm.
Help subjects: ” don’t try to help me , I am doing
good, let me shoot my
dope ”
AA and NA subjects: ” thoses f……g  hugers”
Character defects : ” don’t tell me I am selfish,
dishonest, lazy…ect

Judgment : ” nothing is wrong, nothing is bad…. ”
Restriction or control of drugs availability.

Here is the list   of hip subjects that will work to
make new friends
and
eventualy get laid , if you are in New york area
You should seriously take in consideration this
bag of tools
Drugz
Music ( avoid classical and religious )
Movies
How much I use to shoot
Self justification
You scrach my back, I scrach your back
Flattery
Drugz pop culture.
Atheism
Outrage to the hypocrisy of various institutions and
organizations,
specialy
religious.

God bless
Francis

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 8:33 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism

Nick wrote >Then I thought about this dialogue for
while, and whether
I’m
like
totally off for writing like this, and I realized
I’m totally fine with
it.
If the German government wants to push addicts who
are fucking up a bit
harder, I think it’s ok. That’s my position.<

And I still ask, so how do you feel about someone
else who feels
completely
opposite to you forcing you, or pushing you
towards their viewpoint by
force? Is that cool too, or is it only cool to
force other people to
your
viewpoint Nick?

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for
enlightenment is
often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation
Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Mysterious Roots- The Disinformation Guide
to Ancient
Civilizations,
Explorations and Enigmas” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 5:27 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: 27 January 2005 00:35
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary
fascism

Get your shit together and do it. Heroin’s days
are
numbered, man.<

I’m not taking heroin.
Though there have been a couple times over the
last few years
where I have
relented and bought a bag or three, those times
were extremely
few and far
between and are a while past now. Not a year
yet, but over half at
least,
probably closer to nine months or so since last
time I did that.

If you find
these emails scarey then, fuck man, recognize
that – you get scared
by
emails suggesting you’re gonna be pushed into
looking harder at
yourself. It
provokes a big reaction, look at that. You’re an
aware guy. Check it
out.<

You’re missing the point Nick.
The scary thing about your emails is that you
seem to be serious,
that you
support forcing other people to submit to your
views by force. This
is
mostly scary to me because I’m just now
discovering this, and now I’m
concerned because I don’t know what I’ve
divulged on list you may
have read
and will one day decide to rat me or someone
else out over
because you think
it would do us good to have someone drag us out
of our homes and
teach
us
the better, or your way anyway. That’s what
scares me, not
looking harder at
myself. I don’t have a single problem with that
particular issue,
of looking
deep and hard within myself, and that you might
think I do have
issue with
that is another thing that leaves me shaking my
head, considering
just how
open I am and always have been about myself and
my feelings and
emotions on
this list. The reaction is notr the looking
inside myself, it’s
you thinking
it’s ok to force others to your way of living
and thinking. That’s a
terrible way to go through life in my opinion,
and I’m glad I’m
not somehow
under your control. That’s a fate I am glad I’ve
so far escaped
and hope I
continue to do so for a long, long time.

Hi Preston,

Yeah, well, personally, I had a nice scream and
shout for 10 minutes
this
morning. Then I thought about this dialogue for
while, and whether I’m
like
totally off for writing like this, and I realized
I’m totally fine
with
it.
If the German government wants to push addicts
who are fucking up a
bit
harder, I think it’s ok. That’s my position.

love

Nick

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search
for enlightenment is
often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

/]=—————————————————————
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http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
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/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism:Nick
Date: January 29, 2005 at 6:11:52 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: jon [mailto:jfreed1@umbc.edu]
Sent: 27 January 2005 19:43
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism:Nick

I know it comforts you to make me out to be Hitler or something but
actually
all I’m saying is that I think addiction is a drag and that for
governments
to take a more pro-active stance against it is fine by me. There are now
much better tools to fight opiate addiction available and it is
my belief
that it’s fine to use them. Ibogaine detox backed up by 6 months in a
therapeutic community rehab, I think it would be a great start.

well, i can’t speak for other people, but i’m not making you out to be
hitler.

but, saying that government should coerce people into “positive” change in
their lives IS periously close to what the nazis did to the jews, gypsies,
homosexuals, disabled, and other undesirables of their time. there is a
significant difference between saying government should provide the
necessary tools to address addiction and saying that they should coerce
people into getting “help”. the prior is merciful, the latter is
totalitarian.

Jon, if you can’t tell the difference between coercing junkies into detox
and rehab and gassing people and pulling all their teeth out then it is
going to be a little difficult, I feel, for us to really communicate. It’s
not the slippery slope to genocide. No one is suggesting killing junkies.

Could it rather be that the idea of you having to do rehab scares you? If
so, that’s fine. I’m sure pretty much anyone would be scared by it, and
that’s ok. But, if that is the case then please say so, and stop going on
about nazis.

with love

Nick

which gets to the fundamental point, government has no business telling
anyone who isn’t an active threat to other people how to live their lives.
any deviation from that begins a descent on the slippery slope of state
sponsered bigotry, which can often lead to state sponsered genocide.

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Francis and Nick
Date: January 29, 2005 at 6:03:02 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: Carla Barnes [mailto:carlambarnes@yahoo.com]
Sent: 28 January 2005 01:32
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Francis and Nick

Francis………. you’re being a grouch 😉

Hi Nick, you haven’t posted too much in the last year
but aren’t you one of the people who might have a lot
of personal feelings about drug addiction due to one
of your family members being a junkie? I’m sorry I
don’t remember if it was your son or your brother, but
there was someone in your family youve dosed with
ibogaine a lot of times and no matter what you tried
or wanted them to do they would not get clean.

In spite of all your self awareness, isn’t it possible
you might have a teeny little bit of anger at them?
😉

Hi Carla,

Yes, it’s true, my adoptive brother Ken has had a long term heroin problem
in the past and in the late 90s I tried to help him with ibogaine.
Currently, he claims to be clean but I have my doubts, personally. Yes, I
did use to get very pissed off when I tried to communicate with him and felt
I couldn’t really get through to him. However, this doesn’t really drive me
crazy or anything, though it does still upset me at times. I mean, long
before he was a druggie he was spaced out and I learned to find people that
could communicate with me and not just put it on him that HE had to change.
Though for him, it’s true I also think it would be fine if the government
took a stronger stance. And, yeah, if it happened, he would ring me up and
tell me they’re being nazis or whatever.

Really, to be honest, I feel like I’ve learned a lot from these dialogues
about just where people who are coming toward ibogaine actually are in terms
of coming towards getting off drugs. Now that ibogaine’s getting bigger in
the UK, I’ve people on at me daily to help them get it (I run a website on
ibogaine). What I see more and more is that a lot (by no means all) of the
people that ibogaine attracts just want something that’s going to take all
their problems away without them having to move their whole position in life
even one millimetre. Well, in my experience it’s not impossible that could
happen but it is relatively unlikely.

Same thing in these dialogues. Granted it’s only a few people that respond
but basically all I have said is that I support the German government in its
moves to curb addiction and that sometimes I feel like dragging people out
of their homes to participate in life a bit more. From this it’s like, I’m a
nazi or it’s to do with the jews in the war or Christ knows what. To me, to
be honest, this is just the basic layer of resistance the psyche has to the
idea of change. I see it when I’m doing therapist work all the time. People
want to shoot me up with gear, well, so what, I could do with a bit more
rest at times anyway. Preston’s there shaking his head so much it’s about to
fall off or something, yeah well that’s life.

And hey, Francis, I like what you write. You have guts, man. Yeah, this is
the IBOGAINE list, not heroin-excuses.net. It’s true you can write anything
you want on this list but if you want to take a stand on addiction in a
meaningful way, then you have to be able to take a bit of shit. Keep doing
what you’re doing, guy, cause you’ve got the guts and that’s what’s needed.

With love

Nick

Am I wrong? I know Marc Emery used to deliver up these
20 page rants about why junkies are sick and potheads
are healthy. Couldn’t have had anything to do with his
son being a junkie 😉

Love to all, especially to everyone writing 15 angry
letters to the list each day! 🙂

Carla B

— The Garden <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net> wrote:

Hi Nick!!
Your post generate a lot of turmoil
🙂
That all good, I mean this is free mailing list. You
have few people
who are
acting like they own the list and want to control or
censure everything
that
they don’t like.

To keep simple :I have made a small list of  taboo
subjects:

TTR subjects: when someone try to explain an addict
how to Take Total
Responsability for his own action.
Spiritual subject : rejection by some of the
contribuitors of anything
relating to the spiritual realm.
Help subjects: ” don’t try to help me , I am doing
good, let me shoot my
dope ”
AA and NA subjects: ” thoses f……g  hugers”
Character defects : ” don’t tell me I am selfish,
dishonest, lazy…ect

Judgment : ” nothing is wrong, nothing is bad…. ”
Restriction or control of drugs availability.

Here is the list   of hip subjects that will work to
make new friends
and
eventualy get laid , if you are in New york area
You should seriously take in consideration this
bag of tools
Drugz
Music ( avoid classical and religious )
Movies
How much I use to shoot
Self justification
You scrach my back, I scrach your back
Flattery
Drugz pop culture.
Atheism
Outrage to the hypocrisy of various institutions and
organizations,
specialy
religious.

God bless
Francis

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 8:33 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism

Nick wrote >Then I thought about this dialogue for
while, and whether
I’m
like
totally off for writing like this, and I realized
I’m totally fine with
it.
If the German government wants to push addicts who
are fucking up a bit
harder, I think it’s ok. That’s my position.<

And I still ask, so how do you feel about someone
else who feels
completely
opposite to you forcing you, or pushing you
towards their viewpoint by
force? Is that cool too, or is it only cool to
force other people to
your
viewpoint Nick?

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for
enlightenment is
often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation
Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Mysterious Roots- The Disinformation Guide
to Ancient
Civilizations,
Explorations and Enigmas” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 5:27 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: 27 January 2005 00:35
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary
fascism

Get your shit together and do it. Heroin’s days
are
numbered, man.<

I’m not taking heroin.
Though there have been a couple times over the
last few years
where I have
relented and bought a bag or three, those times
were extremely
few and far
between and are a while past now. Not a year
yet, but over half at
least,
probably closer to nine months or so since last
time I did that.

If you find
these emails scarey then, fuck man, recognize
that – you get scared
by
emails suggesting you’re gonna be pushed into
looking harder at
yourself. It
provokes a big reaction, look at that. You’re an
aware guy. Check it
out.<

You’re missing the point Nick.
The scary thing about your emails is that you
seem to be serious,
that you
support forcing other people to submit to your
views by force. This
is
mostly scary to me because I’m just now
discovering this, and now I’m
concerned because I don’t know what I’ve
divulged on list you may
have read
and will one day decide to rat me or someone
else out over
because you think
it would do us good to have someone drag us out
of our homes and
teach
us
the better, or your way anyway. That’s what
scares me, not
looking harder at
myself. I don’t have a single problem with that
particular issue,
of looking
deep and hard within myself, and that you might
think I do have
issue with
that is another thing that leaves me shaking my
head, considering
just how
open I am and always have been about myself and
my feelings and
emotions on
this list. The reaction is notr the looking
inside myself, it’s
you thinking
it’s ok to force others to your way of living
and thinking. That’s a
terrible way to go through life in my opinion,
and I’m glad I’m
not somehow
under your control. That’s a fate I am glad I’ve
so far escaped
and hope I
continue to do so for a long, long time.

Hi Preston,

Yeah, well, personally, I had a nice scream and
shout for 10 minutes
this
morning. Then I thought about this dialogue for
while, and whether I’m
like
totally off for writing like this, and I realized
I’m totally fine
with
it.
If the German government wants to push addicts
who are fucking up a
bit
harder, I think it’s ok. That’s my position.

love

Nick

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search
for enlightenment is
often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

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/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “tomo7” <tomo7@starband.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine]-Provider question: Free will vs. Addiction
Date: January 29, 2005 at 3:48:03 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Team Mindvox:

I’ve enjoyed the concepts lately squeezed from Preston and Nick’s snarly
differences over libertarian defenses of junkie lifestyle choices.  Both are
great writers and probably lovely people. Do the providers have input on Ibo
as treatment for addiction to help return users to “health”, versus Ibo as
cool tool to help user down regulate freely chosen opiates as pain meds?  I
can see Preston’s point about “nobody gonna mess with my choice to use
because I’m free” (sorry for abbreviated words in mouth, here), and I can
see Nick’s provocative fascist wake-up call to pull the covers off all the
self medicated sleepy minions of Morphia. That side sounds pretty wicked and
unpleasant, images of cops and home invasions roll out over network TV all
the time. The free will junkie lifestyle isn’t exactly a picnic however.

The issue of addiction versus free will gets right to the central vein
(sorry, just had to..) of Ibogaine use. I like the practice of providing
this tool to people who want out of their addiction, and it seems unique and
powerful in it’s value for that. Do you providers take on clients who are
not really looking for a way out of addiction? Maybe the mom or girlfriend
are ragging on people but, naw, they really just like that dope..”

Speaking only for myself, I can’t see why it would be worth my time and
energy to help the junkie have a better commercial relationship to his
chosen pursuits. Yes, I bet Ibo would help a lot if used for that, but it
would feel like such a wasted tool for liberation…OK, help the opiate feel
better for a while, yawn, whatever…

Central question:   Is addiction a disease or illness that providers hope to
treat?  Or is free will use of great pain killers and ways to get high some
inherent right my neighborhood and I need to fight to protect? As long as
people aren’t in my face they should do what they want  to pursue and even
catch every happiness they can. No doubt. The Ibo list of PC thought from
Francis was precious. Too true.

Out here west of NYC, where gun control is a 4 inch group at 50 yards with
your one-handed pistol shot, the idea of a junkie’s rights to use gets a
little abstract. My libertarian beliefs are ok, but when the drug cartel
reps show up at your daughter’s high school prom, some of us get nervous and
tend to reach for something meaner than a good fence purchase. Dirty Harry
sold a lot of movies with the retribution schtick.

As for all the civil liberty issues brought out in the War on Drugs info,
there sure is a lot of sudden surprise and focus on the”dirty laundry” side
of the drug user “lifestyle”.  Dirt sells, for sure, but isn’t it all
getting hard to be shocked and amazed for you grownups that addiction sucks?
Over 500 years since the Spanish Christian monarchs sent Columbus off to
eliminate everyone non Spanish and Christian to generate revenue, and the
war has been pretty world wide and constant for your mind, spirit, and soul
ever since. Addiction has been a favorite controller tool for a long time.

I don’t know the experience of opiate addiction, thankfully, and no, I’ll
pass on those mashed potatoes too.  For the proud, freethinker junkies and
tweekers among us, does the free will model work for addiction or is there a
treatable illness there that loved ones might want to intervene with? When
do your decisions start to forfeit your claim to civil rights? Let me know.
Never mind the character jabs at me for asking, just come from your own
knowledge. As for the social critique of unaware drug policies, this war on
the drug user is just the sneak preview for what’s coming at us in Century
21, IMHO. Get clean, wake up, or don’t. Your choice. In the bright future
there will be a lot of available parking places, methinks.

I’m gone, thanks for reading.

Dr. Tom

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From: “m.finman” <mafinman@optonline.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Hannah
Date: January 28, 2005 at 8:43:22 PM EST
To: ibo <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Hannah,
I am glad for you.  I have replaced the ritualistic taking something (drugwise to be functional) with ritualistically taking something (foodwise to build back health and maintain enough sanity to function).  Protein shake and veggie (mostly green) juice.   Gives a head up as to if you’re currently mentally loosing it because you really are or because your blood sugars not right.
Ritualistic stuff at different times of day no matter what the theme, i feel, can help fill the void till you can fill the void or face the void or whatever….
I send you my best,
Martee

From: Re-Elect Bush/Cheney 08 Or Else <reelectbushcheney2008@yahoo.ca>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]-OT only a little-Inauguration photos
Date: January 28, 2005 at 8:30:31 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— tomo7 <tomo7@starband.net> wrote:
World-wide expressions of opinion…pretty colorful.
Helps to keep the wars
on drugs, terror, cancer, poverty, and aids all in
perspective, doesn’t it?
Kind of a universal war on human freedom is more
like it.

What response to Ibo therapy do you expect from
world controllers? How might
that response really Feel? Guess it depends on where
in the pile you dwell.

http://www.bradblog.com/archives/00001138.htm

Dr. Tom

______________________________________________________________________
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
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From: “tomo7” <tomo7@starband.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine]-OT only a little-Inauguration photos
Date: January 28, 2005 at 7:59:17 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

World-wide expressions of opinion…pretty colorful.  Helps to keep the wars on drugs, terror, cancer, poverty, and aids all in perspective, doesn’t it?  Kind of a universal war on human freedom is more like it.

What response to Ibo therapy do you expect from world controllers? How might that response really Feel? Guess it depends on where in the pile you dwell.

http://www.bradblog.com/archives/00001138.htm

Dr. Tom

From: Klatuu02@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Craving cow-Preston
Date: January 28, 2005 at 7:51:43 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 1/28/2005 12:53:01 PM Pacific Standard Time, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:
I’m vegitarian, but  V is strict Vegan. She doesn’t do any dairy at all, but
doesn’t seem to crave milk. She uses that Silk stuff sometimes, and she
drinks Almond milk, Soy milk, and sometime even coconut milk, (and some
other non-milk milks too) but no cow’s milk.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

I would like
to add that the first major decision I made
was becoming a vegetarian… and now finally
I am vegan…no milk cravings at all and if I do
accidentally eat something that was supposed
to be dairy free and yet somehow has cheese or
milk product in it I know immediately… my stomach
cannot handle it anymore. It’s definitely a deconditioning
process– and cheese now tastes rather awful. The more
you know, also, about the cattle industry the less likely
you are going back. I would recommend the original poster
starting out vegetarian and, if you would like to
try the vegan diet, slowly tapering off the dairy products over time.
I have noticed a lot of people who jump straight into it
end up quitting it after a year…certain foods
can have a powerful hold over people. In my case I fasted
before I became vegetarian and I felt that worked nicely, however,
I would not recommend fasting for everyone.

From: Rachel Radhakrishna <rachelradha@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism:Preston
Date: January 28, 2005 at 6:47:33 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Me too.  But I just heard this lyrical line, “the
underground is a place for moving not for hiding.”  Or
something like that.

If I were a provider, and a facilitator, and I had
limited resources, I’d want the spore effect:  maximum
distribution.

Jeff’s neck has spasmed and he wants numbness.  I
wonder which came first – the guillotine message or
the neck spasms?  I’m learning to respect the
collective consciousness of the Root Freaks.  Tree of
life indeedy.  But still, lots of stress around here.
Codependence sucks.

Personally I’m more worried about vampires and aliens
than the government, but maybe that’s because I think
the public sphere of the collective consensus still
thrives.  It’s shakedown street, but the city’s got
heart.

No, no, maybe its just plain interdimensional
confusion.  I’m no adept.

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The all-new My Yahoo! – Get yours free!
http://my.yahoo.com

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism:Preston
Date: January 28, 2005 at 6:33:24 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I hope I see you in the city in Feb.<

Likewise.
And V and the cats return some other equally warm love to you and yours.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Mysterious Roots- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Explorations and Enigmas” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: <BiscuitBoy714@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 9:29 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism:Preston

Preston, I’ve been real busy and unable to keep up with the list lately and I
just read the note you sent Nick about the goon squad coming to his house and
shooting him full of scag. I’m still laughing. I think that ought to put some
perspective on things for him. Nick means well I think, he wants everyone to
feel as good as he does. I feel the same way, I just keep an open mind about
how people go about getting there. I hope I see you in the city in Feb. Love to
you, V, and the kitties      Randy

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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] cynicism and ibogaine
Date: January 28, 2005 at 5:41:15 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jon,

Yes, that is true,

Now, I’m thinking and thinking and I will write to you in private, soon.

Sara

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Jon Ludlam [mailto:seraphina@compuserve.com]
Verzonden: donderdag 27 januari 2005 13:27
Aan: INTERNET:ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: RE: [Ibogaine] cynicism and ibogaine

Message text written by Sara
Iboga will reduce big amount of bacteria ( parasites) that are living in
symbiotic relationship with our bodies, which is another story but make
iboga worth trying to reduce the chance of total invasion of your body,
And bring you closer to your original “you” when born, who is different to
the “you”<

Sara,
On a number of occasions you have referred to you patients as ” Free from
sugar addiction.”  If you have the time would you please explain in further
detail what you know of the freedom from sugar after using Ibogaine?

Respectfully Yours,

Jon Ludlam

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From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] 5-HTP
Date: January 28, 2005 at 3:53:48 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Try http://qhi.co.uk/ for ordering REAL l-tryptophan
and other goodies.

Brett

— jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu> wrote:

l-tryptophan is a better choice if you can get hold
of it, as 5-htp
doesn’t cross the brain barrier as readily. that
isn’t to say 5-htp is
useless necessarily, but tryptophan is certainly
more effective.

unfortuntely in the US, there was a bad batch that
came in a couple
decades ago, i forget exactly what it was
contaminated with, but
somethinng that led to eosinophilia-myalgia
syndrome, an auto-immune
disorder, that affected a number of people exposed
to it. being its
typical logicl self (note sarcasm) the US govt
banned the sale of pure
tryptophan supplements, and of course didn’t reverse
the ban when it came
out that it wasn’t the tryptophan itself that caused
the problems. you
can, however, still buy tryptophan legally in the US
in amino acid complex
supplements (ones that have multiple amino acids),
and in bulk.

5htp is good but I’ve been told that tit takes a
couple of weeks to have
an effect  like most anti-depressants…
My understanding is that 5 htp is a precursor to
serotonin, but only if
you are eating right and getting the right
nutrients and such…
Another to try out maybe is L-Tryptophan…(5htp
is 5 hydroxytryptophan)
my local nutritionist informed me that this is a
more direct precursor to
serotonin and I did  notice a significant
difference after taking this one
with a nice regiment of vitamins and minerals and
such. I take 500mg with
meals, 2-3 times a day… If it makes you sleepy
you can take 2 x 100mg at
bedtime.
I’ve taken 5htp before and noticed(maybe?) a
difference, but I recently
came off of effexor (a SNRI) while taking the
l-tryptophan, and I haven’t
felt clearer in a while… A nice change after
being on anti-depressants
for the last 2 years.
thats my 2 cents

From: “Kirsty Sutherland”  >Reply-To:
ibogaine@mindvox.com >To:
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]  5-HTP
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 11:23:58 +130>
Thank you for that
..and it would be nice for
you if you could find out
about taking both
perhaps ask the doc?  We have
different names for
drugs >over here, so I have no idea what people
are talking about
unless I do a >websearch!  Prozac is about the
only commonly named
drug.  I take something >called Aropax, which
isn’t as full on as
prozac and I’ve had no side effects >apart from
sleep and appetite (but
hey, coffee and cigs get me thru the day! >Lol) >
Will look into this
5 htp
. > >Kirk > > > >    _____ > >From:
thethird@myway.com
[mailto:thethird@myway.com] >Sent: Thursday, 27
January 2005 5:21 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com >Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]
5-HTP > > > > >Hey
Kirsty, >I take 100 mgs of 5htp in the morning and
I have noticed a
difference in the >levels of my anxiety and
depression. But, if I try
and remember back to when >I was on zoloft I would
say that zoloft made
more of a difference. In fact, >because I get such
bad panic attacks
during school I am thinking about going >back on
something like zoloft,
at least until I get settled back into the
routine of being in class.
I’m thinking about decreasing the 5htp, but am a
little nervous about
it, but I assume that I have to stop taking it if
I go >back on zoloft.
There was an interesting book out awhile ago about
5htp and >it
explained how much to take for certain problems,
but I can’t remember
the >name of it. I will try looking for it, and I
can look something up
in it if >there is any info that you’d like to
know. > > > > > >— On
Tue 01/25, Kirsty Sutherland < captkirk@kol.co.nz
wrote: > >From:
Kirsty Sutherland [mailto: captkirk@kol.co.nz]
To:
ibogaine@mindvox.com >Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005
14:57:38 +1300 >Subject:
RE: [Ibogaine] 5-HTP > >Thank you muchly…will
look into it (for
depression at the mo…) >:o) >Kirk >
—–Original Message—–
From: Ms Iboga [mailto:ms_iboga@yahoo.com] >Sent:
Wednesday, 26
January 2005 7:04 a.m. >To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine]
5-HTP > >hi Kirk, > >Here is a link to a short,
concise description of
5HTP: >http://www.biopsychiatry.com/5-htp.htm >
5-HTP is the chemical
precursor to serotonin. I took >one capsule about
24 hours after my
treatment, and >could swear I felt some of the
Ibogaine’s effects come
back. > >Julie > > >
__________________________________ >Do you
Yahoo!? >Read only the mail you want – Yahoo! Mail
SpamGuard.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > > >

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Checked by AVG
Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.302 / Virus Database:
265.6.5 – Release Date:
12/26/2004 > > >– >Internal Virus Database is
out-of-date. >Checked by
AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.302 / Virus
Database: 265.6.5 – Release
Date: 12/26/2004 > > > >

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kidding. >Make My
Way your home on the Web – HYPERLINK
“http://www.myway.com”
\nhttp://www.myway.com > >– >Internal Virus
Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.302 /
Virus Database: 265.6.5
– Release Date: 12/26/2004 > > >– >Internal Virus
Database is
out-of-date. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version:
7.0.302 / Virus
Database: 265.6.5 – Release Date: 12/26/2004 >

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__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less.
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Craving cow-Preston
Date: January 28, 2005 at 3:52:57 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m vegitarian, but  V is strict Vegan. She doesn’t do any dairy at all, but doesn’t seem to crave milk. She uses that Silk stuff sometimes, and she drinks Almond milk, Soy milk, and sometime even coconut milk, (and some other non-milk milks too) but no cow’s milk.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Mysterious Roots- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Explorations and Enigmas” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Ms Iboga” <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 2:37 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Craving cow-Preston

Preston,

I was wondering: are you vegan or just vegetarian?
Has being vegan/veggie made you feel better?  I am
seriously considering the vegan lifestyle, but I
really really love my cheeses and yoguarts.

If you’re vegan, do you get milk cravings from time to
time?

cheers,
Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism
Date: January 28, 2005 at 3:48:24 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

for their own betterment of course, because they don’t know any better and would need a Bush (or someone who thinks like him) to set them straight.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Mysterious Roots- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Explorations and Enigmas” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Ms Iboga” <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 11:43 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism

Re: Thailand executions.
This is VERY disturbing….and unsettling….I betcha
secretly GW Bush fantasizes about rounding up all
druggies, gays/lesbians, and any other ‘subversive’
types, and going postal on their asses…

Julie

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

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From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine Roundtable Report
Date: January 28, 2005 at 2:43:15 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Please add my name to the thanks being given here.

Where would we be without this valuable information?  I’m
talking about this list in and of itself and the people who
are sharing experiences with ibogaine as well as other
experiences.  I have learned so much and I imagine there
are others who can say the same thing.

ann
think@francomm.com

———————————————–

—– Original Message —– From: “Ms Iboga” <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 2:23 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine Roundtable Report

Thanks for writing all this Howard it’s neat to be
able to have a view of what happened and who said
what

I second that..thanks, Howard!  You rule!

Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more.
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Craving cow-Preston
Date: January 28, 2005 at 2:37:30 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston,

I was wondering: are you vegan or just vegetarian?
Has being vegan/veggie made you feel better?  I am
seriously considering the vegan lifestyle, but I
really really love my cheeses and yoguarts.

If you’re vegan, do you get milk cravings from time to
time?

cheers,
Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine Roundtable Report
Date: January 28, 2005 at 2:23:45 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks for writing all this Howard it’s neat to be
able to have a view of what happened and who said
what

I second that..thanks, Howard!  You rule!

Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more.
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250

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From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Francis and Nick
Date: January 28, 2005 at 1:57:49 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— The Garden <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net> wrote:

Hi Carla !!
You are right, I was grouchy 🙂
No, I don’t have anybody in my familly who was or
is a junkie.Something is

Hi Francis, I didn’t mean your family I was talking
about Nick’s son or brother maybe being a little of
the motivation for his view how all drug addicts
should be forced to deal with their issues even if
they don’t want to 😉

little bet provocative in my E-mail and I don’t
realy want to apologize for
this, even if I feel inconfortable with what I
wrote. A lot of people are

Why would you apologise? That’s the whole reason we
talk isn’t it, if everyone had the same opinion we
wouldn’t need to discuss anything.

and maybe in front of
theirs monitor reading this list that could means
for them salvation .

That’s one of the most cool things that has changed
here in the last years, it used to be more talking
about it but not it’s people talk about it and then
you see the same people get ibogaine and see what
happens to them. Big change in the last years 🙂

When , I read of a guy who is taking a five
years sober medaillon in
AA while shooting dope, that , honestly, pissed me
up!!!

Me too! That always upset me at the meetings, finding
out the someone who is talking about all their years
of clean time isn’t clean in the first place and then
months later the same person goes up and admits they
were lying about everything and gets another round of
applause. I stopped worrying about other people
because it didn’t help me.

Yes I know it isn’t popular but I am one of the people
who does go to 12 step meetings once in a while. I
don’t know what exactly it does for me but it does
something and once in a while I feel the need to go.
So I do 🙂 Most of all I think it remind me how glad
I am not to be stuck in addiction anymore and how
great it was to have ibogaine to get out of it 🙂 🙂

We should take care of the newcomers and stop to
sale ourselves out for
small psycological gratification . Most of the
contributors to the list are
people who already had the gift of an Ibo experience
but still romantized
drugs  . I don’t see the point……

Sound like a 12 step meeting again 🙂 war stories,
war stories, war stories.

I don’t even think this is a 12 step attitude, I think
it’s being a person who did a lot of drugs. Everyone
talks about it and a lot of time it’s hard to tell the
diference between how sorry they are or how proud they
are of their sins 😉

I think everyone who has ever done drugs and stopped,
does this. I haven’t ever met anyone who didn’t. If
there is some other way of dealing with it besides
repressing everything and pretending it never happened
I haven’t figured it out.

God bless Carla
Francis

Thanks 🙂

Love

Carla B

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From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine Roundtable Report
Date: January 28, 2005 at 1:48:13 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks for writing all this Howard it’s neat to be
able to have a view of what happened and who said what
🙂

Carla B

— HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

A beta version of the ibogaine roundtable report of
the Dora Weiner
Foundation from the Harm Reduction Conference is now
available from,
http://www.doraweiner.org/aatod_hrc.html

The report consists of presentation reviews, written
reports and powerpoint
presentations. Presenters are Patrick Kroupa,
Jeffrey Kamlet, MD, Howard
Lotsof, Peter Cohen, Dana Beal,  Dmitri Mugianis,
Valerie Mojeiko and Jon
Freedlander.

Index

Introduction

American Association for the Treatment of Opioid
Dependence conference

Certified Methadone Advocate (CMA) Training Course
Risk Management in the OTP
Hepatitis C Treatment: Support, Empowerment and
Education
Contingency Management
Analgesia in the Buprenorphine Maintained Patient

5th National Harm Reduction Conference

Pre-Conference Institute
Ethics and Clinical Harm Reduction
Junkies in the House of the Lord
Ibogaine Roundtable Overview
Written Presentations
PowerPoint Slide Presentations
Background Literature

Links

1. American Association for the Treatment of Opioid
Dependence
2. Harm Reduction Coalition
3. National Alliance of Methadone Advocates
4. Ibogaine Dossier
5. Cures-Not-Wars
6. Mindvox
7. Legal Action Center
8. National Advocates for Pregnant Women

http://www.doraweiner.org/aatod_hrc.html

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To Miss Iboga
Date: January 28, 2005 at 11:50:11 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey FP,

No, I didn’t get them…weird…So glad to hear you’re
doing well.  How do you feel, overall?

My boyfriend and I are planning a trip to either
Mexico or Macchu Picchu…I love Latin America.  It’s
great to actually have money to spend on things other
than dope, like travelling.

How are your sleeping patterns?  Are they normal?  I’m
still waking up in the middle of the night, for no
apparent reason.

Talk to you soon,
Julie

__________________________________________________
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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism
Date: January 28, 2005 at 11:43:30 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Re: Thailand executions.
This is VERY disturbing….and unsettling….I betcha
secretly GW Bush fantasizes about rounding up all
druggies, gays/lesbians, and any other ‘subversive’
types, and going postal on their asses…

Julie

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism:Preston
Date: January 28, 2005 at 9:29:43 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston, I’ve been real busy and unable to keep up with the list lately and I
just read the note you sent Nick about the goon squad coming to his house and
shooting him full of scag. I’m still laughing. I think that ought to put some
perspective on things for him. Nick means well I think, he wants everyone to
feel as good as he does. I feel the same way, I just keep an open mind about
how people go about getting there. I hope I see you in the city in Feb. Love to
you, V, and the kitties      Randy

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] ibogaine Roundtable Report
Date: January 27, 2005 at 10:47:50 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

A beta version of the ibogaine roundtable report of the Dora Weiner
Foundation from the Harm Reduction Conference is now available from,
http://www.doraweiner.org/aatod_hrc.html

The report consists of presentation reviews, written reports and powerpoint
presentations. Presenters are Patrick Kroupa, Jeffrey Kamlet, MD, Howard
Lotsof, Peter Cohen, Dana Beal,  Dmitri Mugianis, Valerie Mojeiko and Jon
Freedlander.

Index

Introduction

American Association for the Treatment of Opioid Dependence conference

Certified Methadone Advocate (CMA) Training Course
Risk Management in the OTP
Hepatitis C Treatment: Support, Empowerment and Education
Contingency Management
Analgesia in the Buprenorphine Maintained Patient

5th National Harm Reduction Conference

Pre-Conference Institute
Ethics and Clinical Harm Reduction
Junkies in the House of the Lord
Ibogaine Roundtable Overview
Written Presentations
PowerPoint Slide Presentations
Background Literature

Links

1. American Association for the Treatment of Opioid Dependence
2. Harm Reduction Coalition
3. National Alliance of Methadone Advocates
4. Ibogaine Dossier
5. Cures-Not-Wars
6. Mindvox
7. Legal Action Center
8. National Advocates for Pregnant Women

http://www.doraweiner.org/aatod_hrc.html

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Francis and Nick
Date: January 27, 2005 at 10:46:00 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Carla !!
You are right, I was grouchy 🙂
No, I don’t have anybody in my familly who was or  is a junkie.Something is
little bet provocative in my E-mail and I don’t realy want to apologize for
this, even if I feel inconfortable with what I wrote. A lot of people are
lurking to this list for help and they should be able to express themselves
as they wish and not to be afraid to say what they think and how they feel.
No matter what, we should have the patience and the humility to accept
people as they are. Honesty should be the rule if we want to achieve a
“little positive something.”
People are freaking dying of this disease, right now and maybe in front of
theirs monitor reading this list that could means for them salvation .
When , I read of a guy who is taking a five years sober medaillon in
AA while shooting dope, that , honestly, pissed me up!!!
We should take care of the newcomers and stop to sale ourselves out for
small psycological gratification . Most of the contributors to the list are
people who already had the gift of an Ibo experience but still romantized
drugs  . I don’t see the point……
It’s desesperating… and I say this out of love…
I thought…. what if my son will shoot dope.? What if my son took Ebogaine
and will still shoot drugz ?
I will kick is ass to the north pole and spend 6 months with him in the
middle of nowhere until he start to love himself and understand he had a
role to play in this beautiful world.

God bless Carla
Francis

How Ron is doing ? How the son of Faith is doing ?

—– Original Message —–
From: “Carla Barnes” <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 8:32 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Francis and Nick

Francis………. you’re being a grouch 😉

Hi Nick, you haven’t posted too much in the last year
but aren’t you one of the people who might have a lot
of personal feelings about drug addiction due to one
of your family members being a junkie? I’m sorry I
don’t remember if it was your son or your brother, but
there was someone in your family youve dosed with
ibogaine a lot of times and no matter what you tried
or wanted them to do they would not get clean.

In spite of all your self awareness, isn’t it possible
you might have a teeny little bit of anger at them?
😉

Am I wrong? I know Marc Emery used to deliver up these
20 page rants about why junkies are sick and potheads
are healthy. Couldn’t have had anything to do with his
son being a junkie 😉

Love to all, especially to everyone writing 15 angry
letters to the list each day! 🙂

Carla B

— The Garden <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net> wrote:

Hi Nick!!
Your post generate a lot of turmoil
🙂
That all good, I mean this is free mailing list. You
have few people
who are
acting like they own the list and want to control or
censure everything
that
they don’t like.

To keep simple :I have made a small list of  taboo
subjects:

TTR subjects: when someone try to explain an addict
how to Take Total
Responsability for his own action.
Spiritual subject : rejection by some of the
contribuitors of anything
relating to the spiritual realm.
Help subjects: ” don’t try to help me , I am doing
good, let me shoot my
dope ”
AA and NA subjects: ” thoses f……g  hugers”
Character defects : ” don’t tell me I am selfish,
dishonest, lazy…ect

Judgment : ” nothing is wrong, nothing is bad…. ”
Restriction or control of drugs availability.

Here is the list   of hip subjects that will work to
make new friends
and
eventualy get laid , if you are in New york area
You should seriously take in consideration this
bag of tools
Drugz
Music ( avoid classical and religious )
Movies
How much I use to shoot
Self justification
You scrach my back, I scrach your back
Flattery
Drugz pop culture.
Atheism
Outrage to the hypocrisy of various institutions and
organizations,
specialy
religious.

God bless
Francis

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 8:33 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism

Nick wrote >Then I thought about this dialogue for
while, and whether
I’m
like
totally off for writing like this, and I realized
I’m totally fine with
it.
If the German government wants to push addicts who
are fucking up a bit
harder, I think it’s ok. That’s my position.<

And I still ask, so how do you feel about someone
else who feels
completely
opposite to you forcing you, or pushing you
towards their viewpoint by
force? Is that cool too, or is it only cool to
force other people to
your
viewpoint Nick?

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for
enlightenment is
often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation
Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Mysterious Roots- The Disinformation Guide
to Ancient
Civilizations,
Explorations and Enigmas” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 5:27 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: 27 January 2005 00:35
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary
fascism

Get your shit together and do it. Heroin’s days
are
numbered, man.<

I’m not taking heroin.
Though there have been a couple times over the
last few years
where I have
relented and bought a bag or three, those times
were extremely
few and far
between and are a while past now. Not a year
yet, but over half at
least,
probably closer to nine months or so since last
time I did that.

If you find
these emails scarey then, fuck man, recognize
that – you get scared
by
emails suggesting you’re gonna be pushed into
looking harder at
yourself. It
provokes a big reaction, look at that. You’re an
aware guy. Check it
out.<

You’re missing the point Nick.
The scary thing about your emails is that you
seem to be serious,
that you
support forcing other people to submit to your
views by force. This
is
mostly scary to me because I’m just now
discovering this, and now I’m
concerned because I don’t know what I’ve
divulged on list you may
have read
and will one day decide to rat me or someone
else out over
because you think
it would do us good to have someone drag us out
of our homes and
teach
us
the better, or your way anyway. That’s what
scares me, not
looking harder at
myself. I don’t have a single problem with that
particular issue,
of looking
deep and hard within myself, and that you might
think I do have
issue with
that is another thing that leaves me shaking my
head, considering
just how
open I am and always have been about myself and
my feelings and
emotions on
this list. The reaction is notr the looking
inside myself, it’s
you thinking
it’s ok to force others to your way of living
and thinking. That’s a
terrible way to go through life in my opinion,
and I’m glad I’m
not somehow
under your control. That’s a fate I am glad I’ve
so far escaped
and hope I
continue to do so for a long, long time.

Hi Preston,

Yeah, well, personally, I had a nice scream and
shout for 10 minutes
this
morning. Then I thought about this dialogue for
while, and whether I’m
like
totally off for writing like this, and I realized
I’m totally fine
with
it.
If the German government wants to push addicts
who are fucking up a
bit
harder, I think it’s ok. That’s my position.

love

Nick

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search
for enlightenment is
often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism and Communism
Date: January 27, 2005 at 9:15:44 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— The Garden <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net> wrote:

Restriction or control of drugs availability.

Here is the list   of hip subjects that will work to make new friends

and
eventualy get laid , if you are in New york area

What if we’re not in the NY area? Appreciate the list but what then?
Will this at least get me phone sex?

.:vector:.

You should seriously take in consideration this bag of tools
Drugz
Music ( avoid classical and religious )
Movies
How much I use to shoot
Self justification
You scrach my back, I scrach your back
Flattery
Drugz pop culture.
Atheism
Outrage to the hypocrisy of various institutions and organizations,
specialy
religious.

God bless
Francis

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 8:33 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism

Nick wrote >Then I thought about this dialogue for while, and
whether
I’m
like
totally off for writing like this, and I realized I’m totally fine
with
it.
If the German government wants to push addicts who are fucking up a
bit
harder, I think it’s ok. That’s my position.<

And I still ask, so how do you feel about someone else who feels
completely
opposite to you forcing you, or pushing you towards their viewpoint
by
force? Is that cool too, or is it only cool to force other people
to
your
viewpoint Nick?

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is

often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Mysterious Roots- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
Civilizations,
Explorations and Enigmas” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

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From: “Kirsty Sutherland” <captkirk@kol.co.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Craving cow- J.
Date: January 27, 2005 at 4:34:08 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Whenever I’ve been thru a detox I have always felt like healthy foods etc.
I think cos the liver and whole system has been thru such an ordeal that
putting anything other than healthy into it would be nauseating (to me) so
I’ve guzzled fresh juices (with sprigs of parsley thrown in for good
measure) potassium broths (leafy green veg, carrot tops, chickweed etc) and
have felt sheetloads better for it.

—–Original Message—–
From: Ms Iboga [mailto:ms_iboga@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, 28 January 2005 6:22 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Craving cow- J.

Hey J.

Craving cow/chicken isn’t offensive- it’s probably
your body’s way of saying “get some gaddamned protein
and B-12 post haste, jerky…”  🙂

The day after my Ibo detox, I had a really strong
craving for a chicken dinner- which is weird, seeing
as though I am mostly vegetarian.  I ordered Swiss
Chalet, and scarfed the whole thing.  And you know
what- it tasted f*cking fantastic.

My craving for crappy food was completely eliminated
for 5 full weeks- no junk, no ice cream, no greasy
McDicks, et cetera.

J., may I ask if you did the Indra extract?  I am
interested in trying some eventually.

Julie

__________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail – Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
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Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.302 / Virus Database: 265.6.5 – Release Date: 12/26/2004


Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.302 / Virus Database: 265.6.5 – Release Date: 12/26/2004

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From: “Kirsty Sutherland” <captkirk@kol.co.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism
Date: January 27, 2005 at 4:35:52 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hear Hear Ken.

—–Original Message—–
From: ….Ken [mailto:chayco@island.net]
Sent: Friday, 28 January 2005 6:27 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism

—– Original Message —–
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
.

Listen ‘ere folks, Nick is alright…..a wee misdirected, but he will
grow
out of it.

The reason we all go grey when we age ….and evolve through personal
experience…is because it helps us understand that there just
aren’t black
and white answers anymore …….shades of grey…..different
prespectives.

I think someone should volunteer to go ‘underground’ and check out
Nick’s
peace and love camp and report back to the group.

…….Ken

YES! This would be a great idea! How about you, Ken?

Love

Nick

Thank you for the offer Nick, but I am afraid that I might be too
disruptive. If I ‘excorcised’ my need to just yell and yell to cleanse
myself (aka child’s tantrum) I might just become so enthralled with the
liberating feeling that I might feel the need to compliment the therapy by
throttling some therapist…..just a therapeutic throttle of course….to
free up the child within me.

Your new age nazi attitude has obviously shaken up some of your peers here.
I would have thought that iboga would have a calmed you. Obviously
not….think about it Nick, you have to scream out loud like a 7 year old
boy  and you want to force change on those who don’t see things as you do.
It looks like classic symptoms of severe arrested development ..to me.

I admit that I do get a wee frustrated with the closed minded. I went
through the recent ‘3 month war on drugs’ in Thailand where 2300 drug users
were systematically rounded up and shot. Everyone was ratting on each other
as they were in fear of their lives. People were ratting on straight folk
who they just didn’t like. The cops were put on a quota system…they had to
capture/kill x number of suspects or they were fired. Thousands were rounded
up and forced into army camp ‘detox’ centres…except the army did not know
how to detox people….so they caged them until the folks were believed to
be ‘clean’.  This was just a year and a half ago Nick.

I have a new word for you to meditate on…………………empathy.

…..Ken

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Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.302 / Virus Database: 265.6.5 – Release Date: 12/26/2004


Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.302 / Virus Database: 265.6.5 – Release Date: 12/26/2004

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From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Francis and Nick
Date: January 27, 2005 at 8:32:08 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Francis………. you’re being a grouch 😉

Hi Nick, you haven’t posted too much in the last year
but aren’t you one of the people who might have a lot
of personal feelings about drug addiction due to one
of your family members being a junkie? I’m sorry I
don’t remember if it was your son or your brother, but
there was someone in your family youve dosed with
ibogaine a lot of times and no matter what you tried
or wanted them to do they would not get clean.

In spite of all your self awareness, isn’t it possible
you might have a teeny little bit of anger at them?
😉

Am I wrong? I know Marc Emery used to deliver up these
20 page rants about why junkies are sick and potheads
are healthy. Couldn’t have had anything to do with his
son being a junkie 😉

Love to all, especially to everyone writing 15 angry
letters to the list each day! 🙂

Carla B

— The Garden <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net> wrote:

Hi Nick!!
Your post generate a lot of turmoil
🙂
That all good, I mean this is free mailing list. You
have few people
who are
acting like they own the list and want to control or
censure everything
that
they don’t like.

To keep simple :I have made a small list of  taboo
subjects:

TTR subjects: when someone try to explain an addict
how to Take Total
Responsability for his own action.
Spiritual subject : rejection by some of the
contribuitors of anything
relating to the spiritual realm.
Help subjects: ” don’t try to help me , I am doing
good, let me shoot my
dope ”
AA and NA subjects: ” thoses f……g  hugers”
Character defects : ” don’t tell me I am selfish,
dishonest, lazy…ect

Judgment : ” nothing is wrong, nothing is bad…. ”
Restriction or control of drugs availability.

Here is the list   of hip subjects that will work to
make new friends
and
eventualy get laid , if you are in New york area
You should seriously take in consideration this
bag of tools
Drugz
Music ( avoid classical and religious )
Movies
How much I use to shoot
Self justification
You scrach my back, I scrach your back
Flattery
Drugz pop culture.
Atheism
Outrage to the hypocrisy of various institutions and
organizations,
specialy
religious.

God bless
Francis

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 8:33 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism

Nick wrote >Then I thought about this dialogue for
while, and whether
I’m
like
totally off for writing like this, and I realized
I’m totally fine with
it.
If the German government wants to push addicts who
are fucking up a bit
harder, I think it’s ok. That’s my position.<

And I still ask, so how do you feel about someone
else who feels
completely
opposite to you forcing you, or pushing you
towards their viewpoint by
force? Is that cool too, or is it only cool to
force other people to
your
viewpoint Nick?

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for
enlightenment is
often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation
Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Mysterious Roots- The Disinformation Guide
to Ancient
Civilizations,
Explorations and Enigmas” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 5:27 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: 27 January 2005 00:35
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary
fascism

Get your shit together and do it. Heroin’s days
are
numbered, man.<

I’m not taking heroin.
Though there have been a couple times over the
last few years
where I have
relented and bought a bag or three, those times
were extremely
few and far
between and are a while past now. Not a year
yet, but over half at
least,
probably closer to nine months or so since last
time I did that.

If you find
these emails scarey then, fuck man, recognize
that – you get scared
by
emails suggesting you’re gonna be pushed into
looking harder at
yourself. It
provokes a big reaction, look at that. You’re an
aware guy. Check it
out.<

You’re missing the point Nick.
The scary thing about your emails is that you
seem to be serious,
that you
support forcing other people to submit to your
views by force. This
is
mostly scary to me because I’m just now
discovering this, and now I’m
concerned because I don’t know what I’ve
divulged on list you may
have read
and will one day decide to rat me or someone
else out over
because you think
it would do us good to have someone drag us out
of our homes and
teach
us
the better, or your way anyway. That’s what
scares me, not
looking harder at
myself. I don’t have a single problem with that
particular issue,
of looking
deep and hard within myself, and that you might
think I do have
issue with
that is another thing that leaves me shaking my
head, considering
just how
open I am and always have been about myself and
my feelings and
emotions on
this list. The reaction is notr the looking
inside myself, it’s
you thinking
it’s ok to force others to your way of living
and thinking. That’s a
terrible way to go through life in my opinion,
and I’m glad I’m
not somehow
under your control. That’s a fate I am glad I’ve
so far escaped
and hope I
continue to do so for a long, long time.

Hi Preston,

Yeah, well, personally, I had a nice scream and
shout for 10 minutes
this
morning. Then I thought about this dialogue for
while, and whether I’m
like
totally off for writing like this, and I realized
I’m totally fine
with
it.
If the German government wants to push addicts
who are fucking up a
bit
harder, I think it’s ok. That’s my position.

love

Nick

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search
for enlightenment is
often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism
Date: January 27, 2005 at 2:52:39 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ken wrote >I admit that I do get a wee frustrated with the closed minded. I went
through the recent ‘3 month war on drugs’ in Thailand where 2300 drug users
were systematically rounded up and shot.<

Below is what I published on this topic in Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs, an updated and revised reprint of a couple of articles originally published in High Times.
Attached are the photos that were published alongside this article.
While the US wosdu sucks and prison here is no joke whatsoever, Thailand really, really sucks when it comes to the whole wosdu thing.

[TITLE] Who Takes Responsibility for Thailand’s Bloody Drug War ‘Victory’?

[BYLINE] By Preston Peet
(published in Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs, October 2004- The Disinformation Company, NY.)
photos by Mathew McDaniel

—–

Editor’s note- American ex-patriot and human rights campaigner Matthew McDaniel, quoted in the following article, was arrested by Thai immigration officials at the Mae Sai immigration office when he went to renew his visa on April 15, 2004. As this book goes to press, McDaniel has been thrown out of the country and is now living in the US. What will happen to his pregnant Akha wife and four children, still at home in their remote village in Chiang Rai province, is still unsure, but what is known is that the Thai government and its military and police do not like nor want interference from pesky, outspoken foreigners who publicize the atrocities they are committing against certain segments of their society. McDaniel has been particularly derisive of the Thai government’s War on Some Drugs and Users, as is apparent from his comments which follow.

—–

[ILLUS. Akha Murder 2- “Akha man Leeh Huuh, murdered after police called him to the police station. He never made it.”]

Thailand’s Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra inexplicably declared a victory in Thailand’s recent all out War on Drugs campaign, on December 3, 2003 (simultaneously declaring a new War on Poverty), but there are still drugs, traffickers and users all over the country, despite the bodies of thousands of now-dead druggies, dealers and smugglers strewn throughout Thailand’s cities and villages.

[PULL QUOTE- There are still drugs, traffickers and users all over the country, despite the bodies of thousands of now-dead druggies, dealers and smugglers strewn throughout Thailand’s cities and villages.]

The first three months of the campaign, launched by Prime Minister Thaksin on February 1, 2003, became a murder spree, with police committing thousands of what many human rights organizations are calling “extra-judicial killings” of suspected drug dealers and addicts. Police and government officials counter that most of the more than 2500 known killings, 1500 in the first five weeks alone, were carried out by other drug dealers turning on one another in gang warfare or while trying to silence potential snitches, or by police acting in self-defense. Police officials claim that only 46 of the slayings were carried out by fellow officers. The slain include elderly people and children, some as young as sixteen months according to a recent report from Amnesty International titled “Thailand: Widespread abuses in the administration of justice.”

There’s no denying that widespread drug trafficking and sky-high addiction rates are a problem in Thailand. Over the last ten years, there has been a huge increase in the smuggling of methamphetamine pills, called ”ya ba” by locals, becoming even more prevalent than the region’s traditionally smuggled opium. Made extremely cheaply in neighboring Myanmar factories, the pills are then smuggled across Thailand’s border. With the fifteen prisons across the country designed to hold just 90,000 currently overflowing with over 173,900 inmates, killing suspects rather than arresting and trying them in court would of course keep the prison population from further swelling. There were, as of May 31, 2002, a total 106,256 people in Thai prisons for drug offenses (77,970 men and 28,286 women), a whoping 66.46% of the total prison population, according to the Thailand Corrections Department website.

[PULL QUOTE- The police shooting to death drug dealers and users in the streets was probably not what Amnesty International had in mind for reforms.]

The human rights organization Amnesty International has for years voiced concerns with “the long-term problems of torture and ill-treatment, and by prison conditions amounting to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment in Thailand.” But the police shooting to death drug dealers and users in the streets was probably not what Amnesty International had in mind for reforms.

“The drug war was a smashing of people, targeting the local boys mostly, kids, the police informers, the mules the police used to make their job look good, people the police did not like,” said Matthew McDaniel, founder and director of the Akha Heritage Foundation in Thailand, (www.akha.org). “It was just violence without due process. Many people were murdered, many clearly with no drug connection.” Living and working with the Akha hill tribe people for over twelve years, US ex-patriot McDaniel has seen firsthand the results of both drug addiction and the violent repression of the poverty-stricken Akha people by police and military forces. He concedes that one result of the latest campaign has been “less drug activity” but that “there never was any effort to work with the villages which would have worked as well, besides just killing everyone. In addition the economic situation is now worse, as drugs bridged the gap for farm land taken from the Akha, and now there is neither farm land or a drug economy” for the struggling Akha. McDaniel points out that Thailand’s government waged their anti-drug campaign with support from the US, the DEA having an office there. The US takes part in joint military anti-drug training operations every year with Thai forces called Cobra Gold. The US supplies the Thai military equipment as well as training, and US Special Forces has a small contingent of “advisors” working with Thai anti-drug forces.

Although Prime Minister Thaksin’s stated reason for declaring the War was to bring about a drug-free Thailand by Dec. 5, 2003, as a birthday present for Thailand’s King Bhumibol Adulyadej, McDaniel doesn’t believe that is the real reason for this bloody campaign. “It’s all War on Drugs but no emphasis on human rights. The prison population of the hill tribes is very high. Many people know this is just ethnic cleansing. But the police are not included, nor businessmen and government people. None of them were killed.” Hill tribe people in Thailand number just under one million, including the Akha, Lahu, Yao, Lisu, and Karen groups. They do not have citizenship, and according to Amnesty International “face discrimination with regard to education, health care, and other basic rights. At the same time they are exploited as a tourist attraction while often being accused by the authorities and others of destroying the environment and using opium and other illegal drugs.”

[PULL QUOTE- “The US absolutely supported this. The killings with US-made equipment are in violation of the Leahy Amendment.”]

“I think the big operators wanted a consolidation,” says McDaniel. “It also improved the control structure of the police and government, which is all central. Thai people tell me that because of the drug war killings they are now afraid to say anything at all about anything. So that was a success, now wasn’t it. The US absolutely supported this. The killings with US-made equipment are in violation of the Leahy Amendment.” The Leahy Amendment, first passed as part of the US Foreign Operations Appropriations Act in 1997, prohibits US military assistance to foreign military units that violate human rights with impunity, which aptly describes what has happened in Thailand.

Human rights workers and activists are not alone condemning the Thai anti-drug campaign. King Adulyadej himself stated in a 76th birthday speech that “The government reported about 2,500 people were killed. Some say more than 10,000 died. There must be some who were killed that we don’t know about. In this country, who is going to take responsibility?” the king asked. “In the end, the prime minister must take responsibility.”

[SUBHEAD] Postscript: Despite “Victory” Yet Another War on Some Drugs and Users Declared in Thailand

Thailand’s Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra declared yet another “new” War on Some Drugs and Users on Feb. 27, 2004, after declaring victory less than two months previously. Last year’s 10 month “war on drugs,” declared over December 3, 2003, left at least 2500, and possibly many more alleged druggies dead at police hands but did nothing to stop the flow of illegal drugs.

“Critics only focus on the death toll of bad people, rather than those officials who lost their lives for the public and the country. The criticisms are quite imbalanced,” said Thaksin in response to the US government’s annual Country Reports on Human Rights Practices 2003 (released Feb. 25, 2004), which decried the Thai government’s violent anti-drug campaign. But official Thai figures put the number of police and military troops killed during the campaign at approximately 31, compared to the thousands of suspects killed in the streets by police and military forces. The US report described official blacklists of suspected drug criminals, from which police were expected to cull a “prescribed percentage,” or they’d be fired. “The [Thai] Government threatened retaliation against local officials who did not produce results,” notes the US report.

[ILLUS. Akha Murder 1- “Loh Pah (looking to his left) and Leeh Huuh (looking to his right) were both murder after Phrao police of Chiangmai Province of Thailand called them both in for questioning. They never made it to the station.”]

“It’s unacceptable to me the way the US came out with the report by citing media reports. What kind of friend are they?” said Thaksin, quoted in Thailand’s Nation on Feb. 28. Considering previous and current US support of any and all anti-drug efforts around the world, one might understand Thaksin’s frustration. “There were no human-rights violations during the ‘war on drugs,'” said Rasamee Vistaveth, the deputy secretary general of Thailand’s Narcotics Control Board, two days after Thaksin announced the resumption of the war.

“This operation is re-launched not because drugs are rampant again, but it is launched when enemies are retreating,” said Thaksin when declaring the new campaign. “We must reinforce our attacks before they can recover and I am confident we will be able to contain them.” A cynic might be forgiven for doubting this new War on Some Drugs and Users will be any more effective at ending drug use or abuse than the last.

—–

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Mysterious Roots- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Explorations and Enigmas” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “….Ken” <chayco@island.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 12:27 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism

—– Original Message —–
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
.
>
> Listen ‘ere folks, Nick is alright…..a wee misdirected, but he will
grow
> out of it.
>
> The reason we all go grey when we age ….and evolve through personal
> experience…is because it helps us understand that there just
> aren’t black
> and white answers anymore …….shades of grey…..different
> prespectives.
>
> I think someone should volunteer to go ‘underground’ and check out
Nick’s
> peace and love camp and report back to the group.
>
>                                               …….Ken
>
>

YES! This would be a great idea! How about you, Ken?

Love

Nick

Thank you for the offer Nick, but I am afraid that I might be too
disruptive. If I ‘excorcised’ my need to just yell and yell to cleanse
myself (aka child’s tantrum) I might just become so enthralled with the
liberating feeling that I might feel the need to compliment the therapy by
throttling some therapist…..just a therapeutic throttle of course….to
free up the child within me.

Your new age nazi attitude has obviously shaken up some of your peers here.
I would have thought that iboga would have a calmed you. Obviously
not….think about it Nick, you have to scream out loud like a 7 year old
boy  and you want to force change on those who don’t see things as you do.
It looks like classic symptoms of severe arrested development ..to me.

I admit that I do get a wee frustrated with the closed minded. I went
through the recent ‘3 month war on drugs’ in Thailand where 2300 drug users
were systematically rounded up and shot. Everyone was ratting on each other
as they were in fear of their lives. People were ratting on straight folk
who they just didn’t like. The cops were put on a quota system…they had to
capture/kill x number of suspects or they were fired. Thousands were rounded
up and forced into army camp ‘detox’ centres…except the army did not know
how to detox people….so they caged them until the folks were believed to
be ‘clean’.  This was just a year and a half ago Nick.

I have a new word for you to meditate on…………………empathy.

…..Ken

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From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] 5-HTP
Date: January 27, 2005 at 7:59:34 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

l-tryptophan is a better choice if you can get hold of it, as 5-htp
doesn’t cross the brain barrier as readily. that isn’t to say 5-htp is
useless necessarily, but tryptophan is certainly more effective.

unfortuntely in the US, there was a bad batch that came in a couple
decades ago, i forget exactly what it was contaminated with, but
somethinng that led to eosinophilia-myalgia syndrome, an auto-immune
disorder, that affected a number of people exposed to it. being its
typical logicl self (note sarcasm) the US govt banned the sale of pure
tryptophan supplements, and of course didn’t reverse the ban when it came
out that it wasn’t the tryptophan itself that caused the problems. you
can, however, still buy tryptophan legally in the US in amino acid complex
supplements (ones that have multiple amino acids), and in bulk.

5htp is good but I’ve been told that tit takes a couple of weeks to have
an effect  like most anti-depressants…
My understanding is that 5 htp is a precursor to serotonin, but only if
you are eating right and getting the right nutrients and such…
Another to try out maybe is L-Tryptophan…(5htp is 5 hydroxytryptophan)
my local nutritionist informed me that this is a more direct precursor to
serotonin and I did  notice a significant difference after taking this one
with a nice regiment of vitamins and minerals and such. I take 500mg with
meals, 2-3 times a day… If it makes you sleepy you can take 2 x 100mg at
bedtime.
I’ve taken 5htp before and noticed(maybe?) a difference, but I recently
came off of effexor (a SNRI) while taking the l-tryptophan, and I haven’t
felt clearer in a while… A nice change after being on anti-depressants
for the last 2 years.
thats my 2 cents

From: “Kirsty Sutherland”  >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com >To:
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]  5-HTP
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 11:23:58 +130>
Thank you for that
..and it would be nice for you if you could find out
about taking both
perhaps ask the doc?  We have different names for
drugs >over here, so I have no idea what people are talking about
unless I do a >websearch!  Prozac is about the only commonly named
drug.  I take something >called Aropax, which isn’t as full on as
prozac and I’ve had no side effects >apart from sleep and appetite (but
hey, coffee and cigs get me thru the day! >Lol) > >Will look into this
5 htp
. > >Kirk > > > >    _____ > >From: thethird@myway.com
[mailto:thethird@myway.com] >Sent: Thursday, 27 January 2005 5:21 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com >Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] 5-HTP > > > > >Hey
Kirsty, >I take 100 mgs of 5htp in the morning and I have noticed a
difference in the >levels of my anxiety and depression. But, if I try
and remember back to when >I was on zoloft I would say that zoloft made
more of a difference. In fact, >because I get such bad panic attacks
during school I am thinking about going >back on something like zoloft,
at least until I get settled back into the >routine of being in class.
I’m thinking about decreasing the 5htp, but am a >little nervous about
it, but I assume that I have to stop taking it if I go >back on zoloft.
There was an interesting book out awhile ago about 5htp and >it
explained how much to take for certain problems, but I can’t remember
the >name of it. I will try looking for it, and I can look something up
in it if >there is any info that you’d like to know. > > > > > >— On
Tue 01/25, Kirsty Sutherland < captkirk@kol.co.nz > wrote: > >From:
Kirsty Sutherland [mailto: captkirk@kol.co.nz] >To:
ibogaine@mindvox.com >Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 14:57:38 +1300 >Subject:
RE: [Ibogaine] 5-HTP > >Thank you muchly…will look into it (for
depression at the mo…) >:o) >Kirk > >—–Original Message—–
From: Ms Iboga [mailto:ms_iboga@yahoo.com] >Sent: Wednesday, 26
January 2005 7:04 a.m. >To: ibogaine@mindvox.com >Subject: [Ibogaine]
5-HTP > >hi Kirk, > >Here is a link to a short, concise description of
5HTP: >http://www.biopsychiatry.com/5-htp.htm > >5-HTP is the chemical
precursor to serotonin. I took >one capsule about 24 hours after my
treatment, and >could swear I felt some of the Ibogaine’s effects come
back. > >Julie > > > >__________________________________ >Do you
Yahoo!? >Read only the mail you want – Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > > >
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Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.302 / Virus Database: 265.6.5 – Release Date:
12/26/2004 > > >– >Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. >Checked by
AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.302 / Virus Database: 265.6.5 – Release
Date: 12/26/2004 > > > >
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_____ > >No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding. >Make My
Way your home on the Web – HYPERLINK “http://www.myway.com”
\nhttp://www.myway.com > >– >Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.302 / Virus Database: 265.6.5
– Release Date: 12/26/2004 > > >– >Internal Virus Database is
out-of-date. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.302 / Virus
Database: 265.6.5 – Release Date: 12/26/2004 >
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Craving cow- J.
Date: January 27, 2005 at 2:40:47 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The day after my Ibo detox, I had a really strong
craving for a chicken dinner- which is weird, seeing
as though I am mostly vegetarian. <

Interesting. I too ordered a chicken dish when going out the first time, still very, very incredibly high after that first ibo voyage, specifically craving chicken, but it only took a couple of days before I stopped eating meat completely and haven’t since, whatever the date was back in August.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Mysterious Roots- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Explorations and Enigmas” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Ms Iboga” <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 12:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Craving cow- J.

Hey J.

Craving cow/chicken isn’t offensive- it’s probably
your body’s way of saying “get some gaddamned protein
and B-12 post haste, jerky…”  🙂

The day after my Ibo detox, I had a really strong
craving for a chicken dinner- which is weird, seeing
as though I am mostly vegetarian.  I ordered Swiss
Chalet, and scarfed the whole thing.  And you know
what- it tasted f*cking fantastic.

My craving for crappy food was completely eliminated
for 5 full weeks- no junk, no ice cream, no greasy
McDicks, et cetera.

J., may I ask if you did the Indra extract?  I am
interested in trying some eventually.

Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

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From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism and Communism
Date: January 27, 2005 at 2:08:00 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Nick!!
Your post generate a lot of turmoil 🙂
That all good, I mean this is free mailing list. You have few people who are
acting like they own the list and want to control or censure everything that
they don’t like.

To keep simple :I have made a small list of  taboo subjects:

TTR subjects: when someone try to explain an addict how to Take Total
Responsability for his own action.
Spiritual subject : rejection by some of the contribuitors of anything
relating to the spiritual realm.
Help subjects: ” don’t try to help me , I am doing good, let me shoot my
dope ”
AA and NA subjects: ” thoses f……g  hugers”
Character defects : ” don’t tell me I am selfish, dishonest, lazy…ect ”
Judgment : ” nothing is wrong, nothing is bad…. ”
Restriction or control of drugs availability.

Here is the list   of hip subjects that will work to make new friends and
eventualy get laid , if you are in New york area
You should seriously take in consideration this bag of tools
Drugz
Music ( avoid classical and religious )
Movies
How much I use to shoot
Self justification
You scrach my back, I scrach your back
Flattery
Drugz pop culture.
Atheism
Outrage to the hypocrisy of various institutions and organizations, specialy
religious.

God bless
Francis

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 8:33 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism

Nick wrote >Then I thought about this dialogue for while, and whether I’m
like
totally off for writing like this, and I realized I’m totally fine with
it.
If the German government wants to push addicts who are fucking up a bit
harder, I think it’s ok. That’s my position.<

And I still ask, so how do you feel about someone else who feels
completely
opposite to you forcing you, or pushing you towards their viewpoint by
force? Is that cool too, or is it only cool to force other people to your
viewpoint Nick?

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Mysterious Roots- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
Civilizations,
Explorations and Enigmas” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 5:27 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: 27 January 2005 00:35
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism

Get your shit together and do it. Heroin’s days are
numbered, man.<

I’m not taking heroin.
Though there have been a couple times over the last few years
where I have
relented and bought a bag or three, those times were extremely
few and far
between and are a while past now. Not a year yet, but over half at
least,
probably closer to nine months or so since last time I did that.

If you find
these emails scarey then, fuck man, recognize that – you get scared by
emails suggesting you’re gonna be pushed into looking harder at
yourself. It
provokes a big reaction, look at that. You’re an aware guy. Check it
out.<

You’re missing the point Nick.
The scary thing about your emails is that you seem to be serious,
that you
support forcing other people to submit to your views by force. This is
mostly scary to me because I’m just now discovering this, and now I’m
concerned because I don’t know what I’ve divulged on list you may
have read
and will one day decide to rat me or someone else out over
because you think
it would do us good to have someone drag us out of our homes and teach
us
the better, or your way anyway. That’s what scares me, not
looking harder at
myself. I don’t have a single problem with that particular issue,
of looking
deep and hard within myself, and that you might think I do have
issue with
that is another thing that leaves me shaking my head, considering
just how
open I am and always have been about myself and my feelings and
emotions on
this list. The reaction is notr the looking inside myself, it’s
you thinking
it’s ok to force others to your way of living and thinking. That’s a
terrible way to go through life in my opinion, and I’m glad I’m
not somehow
under your control. That’s a fate I am glad I’ve so far escaped
and hope I
continue to do so for a long, long time.

Hi Preston,

Yeah, well, personally, I had a nice scream and shout for 10 minutes
this
morning. Then I thought about this dialogue for while, and whether I’m
like
totally off for writing like this, and I realized I’m totally fine with
it.
If the German government wants to push addicts who are fucking up a bit
harder, I think it’s ok. That’s my position.

love

Nick

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

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From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism
Date: January 27, 2005 at 2:30:23 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Well, my viewpoint is that it’s fine for governments to introduce humane
coercive measures to bring socially errant addicts towards therapy and
meaningful
change in their lives, to push them a bit, basically. I guess the opposite
to this is that it’s not fine to do it, which would seem to be the
position
that you’re taking. So, how do I feel about that, well, I feel OK about
it.

sure…that makes sense…. kind of like how the national socialist party
introduced coercive measures to bring those pesky socially errant jews
towards meaningful change in their lives….

damn those people who think they know how to best live their own lives.
thank goodness for governments, they always know what’s best for
everyone’s well-being. like those poor socially errants iraqis living
without democracy, i’m sure they’re all so much better off now that uncle
sam has stepped in and shown them what’s best for them. or those poor
socially errant native americans with all that beautiful pristine land to
worry about. good thing we took it off their hands for them.

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From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism:Nick
Date: January 27, 2005 at 2:42:49 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I know it comforts you to make me out to be Hitler or something but
actually
all I’m saying is that I think addiction is a drag and that for
governments
to take a more pro-active stance against it is fine by me. There are now
much better tools to fight opiate addiction available and it is my belief
that it’s fine to use them. Ibogaine detox backed up by 6 months in a
therapeutic community rehab, I think it would be a great start.

well, i can’t speak for other people, but i’m not making you out to be
hitler.

but, saying that government should coerce people into “positive” change in
their lives IS periously close to what the nazis did to the jews, gypsies,
homosexuals, disabled, and other undesirables of their time. there is a
significant difference between saying government should provide the
necessary tools to address addiction and saying that they should coerce
people into getting “help”. the prior is merciful, the latter is
totalitarian.

which gets to the fundamental point, government has no business telling
anyone who isn’t an active threat to other people how to live their lives.
any deviation from that begins a descent on the slippery slope of state
sponsered bigotry, which can often lead to state sponsered genocide.

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From: knowone knowwhere <kn0m0n3@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Julie
Date: January 27, 2005 at 12:32:08 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“the Indra extract?”

Yes.

Not saying the it wouldn’t happen with HCL, I don’t
know, I’ve never done lower dose HCL.  But yeah, that
million year old “indra” extract is what I be
referrin’ too : )

Hope your doing well.
-J

___________________________________________________________
ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

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From: Jeffgd1@aol.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism:Nick
Date: January 27, 2005 at 12:30:22 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

if my thought dreams could be seen,
they’d probably put my head in a guillotine
mmmm
J

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From: “….Ken” <chayco@island.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism
Date: January 27, 2005 at 12:27:08 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
.

Listen ‘ere folks, Nick is alright…..a wee misdirected, but he will
grow
out of it.

The reason we all go grey when we age ….and evolve through personal
experience…is because it helps us understand that there just
aren’t black
and white answers anymore …….shades of grey…..different
prespectives.

I think someone should volunteer to go ‘underground’ and check out
Nick’s
peace and love camp and report back to the group.

…….Ken

YES! This would be a great idea! How about you, Ken?

Love

Nick

Thank you for the offer Nick, but I am afraid that I might be too
disruptive. If I ‘excorcised’ my need to just yell and yell to cleanse
myself (aka child’s tantrum) I might just become so enthralled with the
liberating feeling that I might feel the need to compliment the therapy by
throttling some therapist…..just a therapeutic throttle of course….to
free up the child within me.

Your new age nazi attitude has obviously shaken up some of your peers here.
I would have thought that iboga would have a calmed you. Obviously
not….think about it Nick, you have to scream out loud like a 7 year old
boy  and you want to force change on those who don’t see things as you do.
It looks like classic symptoms of severe arrested development ..to me.

I admit that I do get a wee frustrated with the closed minded. I went
through the recent ‘3 month war on drugs’ in Thailand where 2300 drug users
were systematically rounded up and shot. Everyone was ratting on each other
as they were in fear of their lives. People were ratting on straight folk
who they just didn’t like. The cops were put on a quota system…they had to
capture/kill x number of suspects or they were fired. Thousands were rounded
up and forced into army camp ‘detox’ centres…except the army did not know
how to detox people….so they caged them until the folks were believed to
be ‘clean’.  This was just a year and a half ago Nick.

I have a new word for you to meditate on…………………empathy.

…..Ken

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From: knowone knowwhere <kn0m0n3@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: [Ibogaine] ot Nesta
Date: January 27, 2005 at 12:26:09 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com


Many more will have to suffer.
Many more will have to die.
Don’t ask me why.

Things are not the way they used to be.
I won’t tell no lie.

One and All got to face reality.

Though I tried to find the answers.
To all the questions they ask.
Though I know it’s impossible
To go living through the past.

___________________________________________________________
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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Craving cow- J.
Date: January 27, 2005 at 12:21:34 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey J.

Craving cow/chicken isn’t offensive- it’s probably
your body’s way of saying “get some gaddamned protein
and B-12 post haste, jerky…”  🙂

The day after my Ibo detox, I had a really strong
craving for a chicken dinner- which is weird, seeing
as though I am mostly vegetarian.  I ordered Swiss
Chalet, and scarfed the whole thing.  And you know
what- it tasted f*cking fantastic.

My craving for crappy food was completely eliminated
for 5 full weeks- no junk, no ice cream, no greasy
McDicks, et cetera.

J., may I ask if you did the Indra extract?  I am
interested in trying some eventually.

Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

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From: knowone knowwhere <kn0m0n3@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] cynicism and ibogaine
Date: January 27, 2005 at 12:02:28 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi All,

Lower doses seem to have the same effect (with the
extract), did 1/2 gram extract 2 days ago eating a
diet of too much soda and fast food, haven’t had any
since.

Went with friends to Hamburger place, and just
watching them eat greezy Icky, you get the picture.
Not that I have some right to get them to eat
“healthier” (Paging Dr.Nick), I just got a very strong
message: “I am What I eat and Drink”

So now I’m Craving the stereotypical Organic Dark
Greens “Spring Mix”, herbs(especially rosemary and
basil), Fruit Juice, Spring Water, Don’t mean to
offend but my body craves Chicken and Cow afterwards.

Just sayin’.

— Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Speaking just for me and I didn’t take it at Sara’s,
I had slightly less
interest in sugary, processed food aftwards, when I
first took ibogaine, but
that didn’t last long. I still enjoy fruit, but not
quite as often.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for
enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation
Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Mysterious Roots- The Disinformation Guide
to Ancient Civilizations,
Explorations and Enigmas” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Jon Ludlam” <seraphina@compuserve.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 7:26 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] cynicism and ibogaine

Message text written by Sara
Iboga will reduce big amount of bacteria (
parasites) that are living in
symbiotic relationship with our bodies, which is
another story but make
iboga worth trying to reduce the chance of total
invasion of your body,
And bring you closer to your original “you” when
born, who is different to
the “you”<

Sara,
On a number of occasions you have referred to you
patients as ” Free from
sugar addiction.”  If you have the time would you
please explain in further
detail what you know of the freedom from sugar after
using Ibogaine?

Respectfully Yours,

Jon Ludlam

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism:Nick
Date: January 27, 2005 at 11:04:39 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

And, when you say you are all for the German government getting harsh with addicts, hasn’t the drug war proven anything to you?<

BINGO!
Well said.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Mysterious Roots- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Explorations and Enigmas” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: thethird@myway.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 10:12 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism:Nick

Wow Nick, I keep feeling a bit stunned when I think about this whole thing. A lot of doctors think that addiction has to do with genetics, so pretty much whomever you were born to is a factor in weather you might one day become addicted to drugs and reading these posts I reflect on other times in history when people, just because they were born to certain people or practiced a certain religion were forced to hide from ‘the enlightened community’, lest they be dragged away from their homes. I can’t say that I ever looked at the Holocaust as an enlightened society, but you can bet your ass that they thought they were. They thought they were doing the world (even the Jewish people) a favor. It’s interesting how Hitler had Jewish blood isn’t it, like he hated that part of himself so much that by forcing that part of society to go away, he could feel better about himself. I’m not saying you are the next Hitler, it’s just that reading ! some of your posts I am reminded of that time in history. I would think that anytime someone has a desire to force other people into becoming something else, you have to seriously question if there is in fact any altruism in their motives. Finding out what life is all about will last a lifetime, and by forcing other people to do something they don’t want to do, you are wasting your time and energy, which you could spend on yourself or people who really want help. The only time I can think of when forcing people to behave a certain way turned out for the better was forcing people to give up slavery, and the whole purpose of that was to GIVE freedom to people (slaves) not take it away. (Of course the reasons for the war were not quite as benevolent as that, but it helped.) I’m obviously not much of a history buff (or I would have come up with much better instances 🙂 ), and maybe there are some cases which would show otherwise, but I can’t imagine taking freedom away from a c! ertain ‘type’ of people as being in any way a positive thing. And that , out of all of the things you implied, is what depressed me the most. I just don’t get people who are so sure they have the right answers that they will actually bet someone else’s life on it, which is what you do when you force someone else to do what you believe. I don’t know, maybe you really think that you are giving addicts more freedom by forcing them out into your world, but shouldn’t you respect their personal freedom and decision to find their own path? And, when you say you are all for the German government getting harsh with addicts, hasn’t the drug war proven anything to you? I know all this is off topic, but it is pretty interesting, at least to me, and I appreciate you voicing your beliefs even though I don’t agree with them. Damn, I didn’t mean for this to be so long.

— On Wed 01/26, Nick Sandberg < nick227@tiscali.co.uk > wrote:

From: Nick Sandberg [mailto: nick227@tiscali.co.uk]
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 18:45:31 -0000
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism:Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: thethird@myway.com [mailto:thethird@myway.com]
Sent: 26 January 2005 17:11
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism:Nick

Hey Nick, I read a post where you wrote:

What about just being a general fucking drag, junkie or otherwise? I mean,
don’t you agree it would be great to have some social laws for people who
don’t want to participate in life? OK, it could be abused and Who make the
Rules Up and all that, but really I think some people should just be dragged
out of their homes and made to take part.

Are you serious that you think people should be forced out of their homes and then forced into doing things that other people feel they should do.
Yes! Where do you live?!
That sounds pretty serious. What if we only get one life and here is some jerk telling us what he thinks we should do to really get the most of it. I have to say that one of my pet peeves is nosy people who feel that they know what is best for everyone else. Being a drug addict it becomes pretty obvious that there is no shortage of people who get off hearing all the gritty details of your life a nd can’t wait to feel that spiritual better than thouness when they take you by the hand and guide you through all that nastiness and bring you into the light. I have complete respect for people who spend time helping other people, but I think it is important that they don’t try to force people into that help, because it won’t work unless that person wants to be helped.
You don’t want people poking their noses into your private little thought processes! Why not? What are you hiding?
Also when you said you are anti-heroin, I would like to ask you why. Because it is so addictive and you think it ruins people’s lives?
No, because I’m pro-awareness. Heroin’s a painkiller, an analgesic. It numbs you out and blocks awareness, blocks development.
Everything we take acts like a drug in our brains, from the food we eat to the air we breathe. Oxygen is probably the most addictive thing out there, but nobody thinks about trying to kick oxygen because our quality of life would be pretty shitty without it,
This is true
and I truly believe that for some people, because of a chemical imbalance, pain reasons, lack of awareness, chronic immaturity, laziness (just to give both sides) or whatever, that their quality of life with opiates is higher than without it. All in all it should be up to the individual, as long as they are not hurting any one else, to decide how they want to live their life.
Well, I don’t agree. I think dragging people out of their homes is a far better option. Really, I mean it. Drag all those seedy little secrets that you don’t want to reveal to the world out into daylight and get to recognize who you really are. Why not? Confront your fears! Show yourself! Give it!
I’ve done a lot of things in my life that some people would have loved to have the control to stop me, but I am thankful that they couldn’t because I got a lot from those things, more understanding about myself and what I wanted this life to be about. If you can’t be in someone else’s head you can’t know what they want or need, so don’t you think it would be better to let people come to their own conclusions,
I’m sorry, but this just isn’t my experience. A lot of people don’t seem to have a clue what they actually need. They’re stuck in repetitive patterns in life, trying to maintain face and hold down feelings, desperate to cling to anything that doesn’t theaten their image of themselves, few more so than addicts. They just go round and round, and if they come past me I try to encourage them to look deeper in whatever way I can. I’m learning.
and then, if you like to help people, wait until they decide what they want to change, and then help them, as opposed to forcing what you think is best for them upon them? You always seem so positive and up-beat that I think you are probably great at helping people, but from some of your posts I got the feeling that you could be a little forceful (the whole dragging people out of their homes thing). Of course it’s hard to know what people are like from a few emails.
I like people. I learn from people. And if someone is coming into my vicinity who I think could benefit from useful feedback, then I give it. My energy is pro-active, that’s how I am. About knowing how people are, for sure it’s hard from emails. Emails are a bit limited generally but, still, something can happen!
love
Nick
Laura

No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding.
Make My Way your home on the Web – http://www.myway.com

No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding.
Make My Way your home on the Web – http://www.myway.com

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From: “donny snuffaluffagus” <loudon420@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] 5-HTP
Date: January 27, 2005 at 10:44:40 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

5htp is good but I’ve been told that tit takes a couple of weeks to have an effect  like most anti-depressants…
My understanding is that 5 htp is a precursor to serotonin, but only if you are eating right and getting the right nutrients and such…
Another to try out maybe is L-Tryptophan…(5htp is 5 hydroxytryptophan) my local nutritionist informed me that this is a more direct precursor to serotonin and I did  notice a significant difference after taking this one with a nice regiment of vitamins and minerals and such. I take 500mg with meals, 2-3 times a day… If it makes you sleepy you can take 2 x 100mg at bedtime.
I’ve taken 5htp before and noticed(maybe?) a difference, but I recently came off of effexor (a SNRI) while taking the l-tryptophan, and I haven’t felt clearer in a while… A nice change after being on anti-depressants for the last 2 years.
thats my 2 cents
>From: “Kirsty Sutherland” <captkirk@kol.co.nz>

>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>

>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]  5-HTP

>Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 11:23:58 +130>
>Thank you for that…..and it would be nice for you if you could find out

>about taking both…perhaps ask the doc?  We have different names for drugs

>over here, so I have no idea what people are talking about unless I do a

>websearch!  Prozac is about the only commonly named drug.  I take something

>called Aropax, which isn’t as full on as prozac and I’ve had no side effects

>apart from sleep and appetite (but hey, coffee and cigs get me thru the day!

>Lol)

>

>Will look into this 5 htp….

>

>Kirk

>

>

>

>    _____

>

>From: thethird@myway.com [mailto:thethird@myway.com]

>Sent: Thursday, 27 January 2005 5:21 a.m.

>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] 5-HTP

>

>

>

>

>Hey Kirsty,

>I take 100 mgs of 5htp in the morning and I have noticed a difference in the

>levels of my anxiety and depression. But, if I try and remember back to when

>I was on zoloft I would say that zoloft made more of a difference. In fact,

>because I get such bad panic attacks during school I am thinking about going

>back on something like zoloft, at least until I get settled back into the

>routine of being in class. I’m thinking about decreasing the 5htp, but am a

>little nervous about it, but I assume that I have to stop taking it if I go

>back on zoloft. There was an interesting book out awhile ago about 5htp and

>it explained how much to take for certain problems, but I can’t remember the

>name of it. I will try looking for it, and I can look something up in it if

>there is any info that you’d like to know.

>

>

>

>

>

>— On Tue 01/25, Kirsty Sutherland < captkirk@kol.co.nz > wrote:

>

>From: Kirsty Sutherland [mailto: captkirk@kol.co.nz]

>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 14:57:38 +1300

>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] 5-HTP

>

>Thank you muchly…will look into it (for depression at the mo…)

>:o)

>Kirk

>

>—–Original Message—–

>From: Ms Iboga [mailto:ms_iboga@yahoo.com]

>Sent: Wednesday, 26 January 2005 7:04 a.m.

>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>Subject: [Ibogaine] 5-HTP

>

>hi Kirk,

>

>Here is a link to a short, concise description of

>5HTP:

>http://www.biopsychiatry.com/5-htp.htm

>

>5-HTP is the chemical precursor to serotonin. I took

>one capsule about 24 hours after my treatment, and

>could swear I felt some of the Ibogaine’s effects come

>back.

>

>Julie

>

>

>

>__________________________________

>Do you Yahoo!?

>Read only the mail you want – Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.

>http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

>

>

>

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>

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>

>

>

>–

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>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.

>Version: 7.0.302 / Virus Database: 265.6.5 – Release Date: 12/26/2004

>

>

>–

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>

>

>

>

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>

>

>

>

>    _____

>

>No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding.

>Make My Way your home on the Web – HYPERLINK “http://www.myway.com”

>\nhttp://www.myway.com

>

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism:Nick
Date: January 27, 2005 at 10:40:54 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I know it comforts you to make me out to be Hitler or something but actually all I’m saying is that I think addiction is a drag and that for governments to take a more pro-active stance against it is fine by me. There are now much better tools to fight opiate addiction available and it is my belief that it’s fine to use them. Ibogaine detox backed up by 6 months in a therapeutic community rehab, I think it would be a great start.

BTW, it is not relevant to me whether an addiction has a genetic root. It is not about “blaming” someone because they are addicted to drugs and trying to find reason for it (beyond the use of that in undoing the addiction). It is about creating positive social change. A gene sequence might represent an inherited trait, a predisposition to chemical dependence. That does not mean you have to be like that forever. You have a choice. As a conscious individual you can choose to go for change, or you can choose to stay with your old position. You are not trapped by your DNA, unless of course you choose to believe that.

with love

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: thethird@myway.com [mailto:thethird@myway.com]
Sent: 27 January 2005 15:12
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism:Nick

Wow Nick, I keep feeling a bit stunned when I think about this whole thing. A lot of doctors think that addiction has to do with genetics, so pretty much whomever you were born to is a factor in weather you might one day become addicted to drugs and reading these posts I reflect on other times in history when people, just because they were born to certain people or practiced a certain religion were forced to hide from ‘the enlightened community’, lest they be dragged away from their homes. I can’t say that I ever looked at the Holocaust as an enlightened society, but you can bet your ass that they thought they were. They thought they were doing the world (even the Jewish people) a favor. It’s interesting how Hitler had Jewish blood isn’t it, like he hated that part of himself so much that by forcing that part of society to go away, he could feel better about himself. I’m not saying you are the next Hitler, it’s just that reading some of y our posts I am reminded of that time in history. I would think that anytime someone has a desire to force other people into becoming something else, you have to seriously question if there is in fact any altruism in their motives. Finding out what life is all about will last a lifetime, and by forcing other people to do something they don’t want to do, you are wasting your time and energy, which you could spend on yourself or people who really want help. The only time I can think of when forcing people to behave a certain way turned out for the better was forcing people to give up slavery, and the whole purpose of that was to GIVE freedom to people (slaves) not take it away. (Of course the reasons for the war were not quite as benevolent as that, but it helped.) I’m obviously not much of a history buff (or I would have come up with much better instances 🙂 ), and maybe there are some cases which would show otherwise, but I can’t imagine taking freedom away from a certain ‘type’ of pe ople as being in any way a positive thing. And that, out of all of the things you implied, is what depressed me the most. I just don’t get people who are so sure they have the right answers that they will actually bet someone else’s life on it, which is what you do when you force someone else to do what you believe. I don’t know, maybe you really think that you are giving addicts more freedom by forcing them out into your world, but shouldn’t you respect their personal freedom and decision to find their own path? And, when you say you are all for the German government getting harsh with addicts, hasn’t the drug war proven anything to you? I know all this is off topic, but it is pretty interesting, at least to me, and I appreciate you voicing your beliefs even though I don’t agree with them. Damn, I didn’t mean for this to be so long.

— On Wed 01/26, Nick Sandberg < nick227@tiscali.co.uk > wrote:
From: Nick Sandberg [mailto: nick227@tiscali.co.uk]
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 18:45:31 -0000
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism:Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: thethird@myway.com [mailto:thethird@myway.com]
Sent: 26 January 2005 17:11
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism:Nick

Hey Nick, I read a post where you wrote:

>>What about just being a general fucking drag, junkie or otherwise? I mean,
>>don’t you agree it would be great to have some social laws for people who
>>don’t want to participate in life? OK, it could be abused and Who make the
>>Rules Up and all that, but really I think some people should just be dragged
>>out of their homes and made to take part.

Are you serious that you think people should be forced out of their homes and then forced into doing things that other people feel they should do.
Yes! Where do you live?!
That sounds pretty serious. What if we only get one life and here is some jerk telling us what he thinks we should do to really get the most of it. I have to say that one of my pet peeves is nosy people who feel that they know what is best for everyone else. Being a drug addict it becomes pretty obvious that there is no shortage of people who get off hearing all the gritty details of your life a nd can’t wait to feel that spiritual better than thouness when they take you by the hand and guide you through all that nastiness and bring you into the light. I have complete respect for people who spend time helping other people, but I think it is important that they don’t try to force people into that help, because it won’t work unless that person wants to be helped.
You don’t want people poking their noses into your private little thought processes! Why not? What are you hiding?
Also when you said you are anti-heroin, I would like to ask you why. Because it is so addictive and you think it ruins people’s lives?
No, because I’m pro-awareness. Heroin’s a painkiller, an analgesic. It numbs you out and blocks awareness, blocks development.
Everything we take acts like a drug in our brains, from the food we eat to the air we breathe. Oxygen is probably the most addictive thing out there, but nobody thinks about trying to kick oxygen because our quality of life would be pretty shitty without it,
This is true
and I truly believe that for some people, because of a chemical imbalance, pain reasons, lack of awareness, chronic immaturity, laziness (just to give both sides) or whatever, that their quality of life with opiates is higher than without it. All in all it should be up to the individual, as long as they are not hurting any one else, to decide how they want to live their life.
Well, I don’t agree. I think dragging people out of their homes is a far better option. Really, I mean it. Drag all those seedy little secrets that you don’t want to reveal to the world out into daylight and get to recognize who you really are. Why not? Confront your fears! Show yourself! Give it!
I’ve done a lot of things in my life that some people would have loved to have the control to stop me, but I am thankful that they couldn’t because I got a lot from those things, more understanding about myself and what I wanted this life to be about. If you can’t be in someone else’s head you can’t know what they want or need, so don’t you think it would be better to let people come to their own conclusions,
I’m sorry, but this just isn’t my experience. A lot of people don’t seem to have a clue what they actually need. They’re stuck in repetitive patterns in life, trying to maintain face and hold down feelings, desperate to cling to anything that doesn’t theaten their image of themselves, few more so than addicts. They just go round and round, and if they come past me I try to encourage them to look deeper in whatever way I can. I’m learning.
and then, if you like to help people, wait until they decide what they want to change, and then help them, as opposed to forcing what you think is best for them upon them? You always seem so positive and up-beat that I think you are probably great at helping people, but from some of your posts I got the feeling that you could be a little forceful (the whole dragging people out of their homes thing). Of course it’s hard to know what people are like from a few emails.
I like people. I learn from people. And if someone is coming into my vicinity who I think could benefit from useful feedback, then I give it. My energy is pro-active, that’s how I am. About knowing how people are, for sure it’s hard from emails. Emails are a bit limited generally but, still, something can happen!
love
Nick

Laura

No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding.
Make My Way your home on the Web – http://www.myway.com

No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding.
Make My Way your home on the Web – http://www.myway.com

From: “” <thethird@myway.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism:Nick
Date: January 27, 2005 at 10:12:18 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Wow Nick, I keep feeling a bit stunned when I think about this whole thing. A lot of doctors think that addiction has to do with genetics, so pretty much whomever you were born to is a factor in weather you might one day become addicted to drugs and reading these posts I reflect on other times in history when people, just because they were born to certain people or practiced a certain religion were forced to hide from ‘the enlightened community’, lest they be dragged away from their homes. I can’t say that I ever looked at the Holocaust as an enlightened society, but you can bet your ass that they thought they were. They thought they were doing the world (even the Jewish people) a favor. It’s interesting how Hitler had Jewish blood isn’t it, like he hated that part of himself so much that by forcing that part of society to go away, he could feel better about himself. I’m not saying you are the next Hitler, it’s just that reading some of your posts I am reminded of that time in history. I would think that anytime someone has a desire to force other people into becoming something else, you have to seriously question if there is in fact any altruism in their motives. Finding out what life is all about will last a lifetime, and by forcing other people to do something they don’t want to do, you are wasting your time and energy, which you could spend on yourself or people who really want help. The only time I can think of when forcing people to behave a certain way turned out for the better was forcing people to give up slavery, and the whole purpose of that was to GIVE freedom to people (slaves) not take it away. (Of course the reasons for the war were not quite as benevolent as that, but it helped.) I’m obviously not much of a history buff (or I would have come up with much better instances 🙂 ), and maybe there are some cases which would show otherwise, but I can’t imagine taking freedom away from a certain ‘type’ of people as being in any way a positive thing. And that, out of all of the things you implied, is what depressed me the most. I just don’t get people who are so sure they have the right answers that they will actually bet someone else’s life on it, which is what you do when you force someone else to do what you believe. I don’t know, maybe you really think that you are giving addicts more freedom by forcing them out into your world, but shouldn’t you respect their personal freedom and decision to find their own path? And, when you say you are all for the German government getting harsh with addicts, hasn’t the drug war proven anything to you? I know all this is off topic, but it is pretty interesting, at least to me, and I appreciate you voicing your beliefs even though I don’t agree with them. Damn, I didn’t mean for this to be so long.

— On Wed 01/26, Nick Sandberg < nick227@tiscali.co.uk > wrote:
From: Nick Sandberg [mailto: nick227@tiscali.co.uk]
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 18:45:31 -0000
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism:Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: thethird@myway.com [mailto:thethird@myway.com]
Sent: 26 January 2005 17:11
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism:Nick

Hey Nick, I read a post where you wrote:

>>What about just being a general fucking drag, junkie or otherwise? I mean,
>>don’t you agree it would be great to have some social laws for people who
>>don’t want to participate in life? OK, it could be abused and Who make the
>>Rules Up and all that, but really I think some people should just be dragged
>>out of their homes and made to take part.

Are you serious that you think people should be forced out of their homes and then forced into doing things that other people feel they should do.
Yes! Where do you live?!
That sounds pretty serious. What if we only get one life and here is some jerk telling us what he thinks we should do to really get the most of it. I have to say that one of my pet peeves is nosy people who feel that they know what is best for everyone else. Being a drug addict it becomes pretty obvious that there is no shortage of people who get off hearing all the gritty details of your life a nd can’t wait to feel that spiritual better than thouness when they take you by the hand and guide you through all that nastiness and bring you into the light. I have complete respect for people who spend time helping other people, but I think it is important that they don’t try to force people into that help, because it won’t work unless that person wants to be helped.
You don’t want people poking their noses into your private little thought processes! Why not? What are you hiding?
Also when you said you are anti-heroin, I would like to ask you why. Because it is so addictive and you think it ruins people’s lives?
No, because I’m pro-awareness. Heroin’s a painkiller, an analgesic. It numbs you out and blocks awareness, blocks development.
Everything we take acts like a drug in our brains, from the food we eat to the air we breathe. Oxygen is probably the most addictive thing out there, but nobody thinks about trying to kick oxygen because our quality of life would be pretty shitty without it,
This is true
and I truly believe that for some people, because of a chemical imbalance, pain reasons, lack of awareness, chronic immaturity, laziness (just to give both sides) or whatever, that their quality of life with opiates is higher than without it. All in all it should be up to the individual, as long as they are not hurting any one else, to decide how they want to live their life.
Well, I don’t agree. I think dragging people out of their homes is a far better option. Really, I mean it. Drag all those seedy little secrets that you don’t want to reveal to the world out into daylight and get to recognize who you really are. Why not? Confront your fears! Show yourself! Give it!
I’ve done a lot of things in my life that some people would have loved to have the control to stop me, but I am thankful that they couldn’t because I got a lot from those things, more understanding about myself and what I wanted this life to be about. If you can’t be in someone else’s head you can’t know what they want or need, so don’t you think it would be better to let people come to their own conclusions,
I’m sorry, but this just isn’t my experience. A lot of people don’t seem to have a clue what they actually need. They’re stuck in repetitive patterns in life, trying to maintain face and hold down feelings, desperate to cling to anything that doesn’t theaten their image of themselves, few more so than addicts. They just go round and round, and if they come past me I try to encourage them to look deeper in whatever way I can. I’m learning.
and then, if you like to help people, wait until they decide what they want to change, and then help them, as opposed to forcing what you think is best for them upon them? You always seem so positive and up-beat that I think you are probably great at helping people, but from some of your posts I got the feeling that you could be a little forceful (the whole dragging people out of their homes thing). Of course it’s hard to know what people are like from a few emails.
I like people. I learn from people. And if someone is coming into my vicinity who I think could benefit from useful feedback, then I give it. My energy is pro-active, that’s how I am. About knowing how people are, for sure it’s hard from emails. Emails are a bit limited generally but, still, something can happen!
love
Nick

Laura

No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding.
Make My Way your home on the Web – http://www.myway.com

No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding.
Make My Way your home on the Web – http://www.myway.com

From: nick227@tiscali.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism
Date: January 27, 2005 at 9:56:07 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— Original Message —
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 08:33:40 -0500
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism

Nick wrote >Then I thought about this dialogue for while, and whether I’m

like
totally off for writing like this, and I realized I’m totally fine with
it.
If the German government wants to push addicts who are fucking up a bit
harder, I think it’s ok. That’s my position.<

And I still ask, so how do you feel about someone else who feels completely

opposite to you forcing you, or pushing you towards their viewpoint by

force? Is that cool too, or is it only cool to force other people to your

viewpoint Nick?

Hi Preston,

Well, my viewpoint is that it’s fine for governments to introduce humane
coercive measures to bring socially errant addicts towards therapy and meaningful
change in their lives, to push them a bit, basically. I guess the opposite
to this is that it’s not fine to do it, which would seem to be the position
that you’re taking. So, how do I feel about that, well, I feel OK about
it.

Love

Nick

___________________________________________________________

Book yourself something to look forward to in 2005.
Cheap flights – http://www.tiscali.co.uk/travel/flights/
Bargain holidays – http://www.tiscali.co.uk/travel/holidays/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism
Date: January 27, 2005 at 8:33:40 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Nick wrote >Then I thought about this dialogue for while, and whether I’m like
totally off for writing like this, and I realized I’m totally fine with it.
If the German government wants to push addicts who are fucking up a bit
harder, I think it’s ok. That’s my position.<

And I still ask, so how do you feel about someone else who feels completely opposite to you forcing you, or pushing you towards their viewpoint by force? Is that cool too, or is it only cool to force other people to your viewpoint Nick?

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Mysterious Roots- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Explorations and Enigmas” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 5:27 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: 27 January 2005 00:35
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism

>Get your shit together and do it. Heroin’s days are
numbered, man.<

I’m not taking heroin.
Though there have been a couple times over the last few years
where I have
relented and bought a bag or three, those times were extremely
few and far
between and are a while past now. Not a year yet, but over half at least,
probably closer to nine months or so since last time I did that.

>If you find
these emails scarey then, fuck man, recognize that – you get scared by
emails suggesting you’re gonna be pushed into looking harder at
yourself. It
provokes a big reaction, look at that. You’re an aware guy. Check it out.<

You’re missing the point Nick.
The scary thing about your emails is that you seem to be serious,
that you
support forcing other people to submit to your views by force. This is
mostly scary to me because I’m just now discovering this, and now I’m
concerned because I don’t know what I’ve divulged on list you may
have read
and will one day decide to rat me or someone else out over
because you think
it would do us good to have someone drag us out of our homes and teach us
the better, or your way anyway. That’s what scares me, not
looking harder at
myself. I don’t have a single problem with that particular issue,
of looking
deep and hard within myself, and that you might think I do have
issue with
that is another thing that leaves me shaking my head, considering
just how
open I am and always have been about myself and my feelings and
emotions on
this list. The reaction is notr the looking inside myself, it’s
you thinking
it’s ok to force others to your way of living and thinking. That’s a
terrible way to go through life in my opinion, and I’m glad I’m
not somehow
under your control. That’s a fate I am glad I’ve so far escaped
and hope I
continue to do so for a long, long time.

Hi Preston,

Yeah, well, personally, I had a nice scream and shout for 10 minutes this
morning. Then I thought about this dialogue for while, and whether I’m like
totally off for writing like this, and I realized I’m totally fine with it.
If the German government wants to push addicts who are fucking up a bit
harder, I think it’s ok. That’s my position.

love

Nick

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] cynicism and ibogaine
Date: January 27, 2005 at 7:45:24 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Speaking just for me and I didn’t take it at Sara’s, I had slightly less interest in sugary, processed food aftwards, when I first took ibogaine, but that didn’t last long. I still enjoy fruit, but not quite as often.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Mysterious Roots- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Explorations and Enigmas” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Jon Ludlam” <seraphina@compuserve.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 7:26 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] cynicism and ibogaine

Message text written by Sara
Iboga will reduce big amount of bacteria ( parasites) that are living in
symbiotic relationship with our bodies, which is another story but make
iboga worth trying to reduce the chance of total invasion of your body,
And bring you closer to your original “you” when born, who is different to
the “you”<

Sara,
On a number of occasions you have referred to you patients as ” Free from
sugar addiction.”  If you have the time would you please explain in further
detail what you know of the freedom from sugar after using Ibogaine?

Respectfully Yours,

Jon Ludlam

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: Jon Ludlam <seraphina@compuserve.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] cynicism and ibogaine
Date: January 27, 2005 at 7:26:52 AM EST
To: “INTERNET:ibogaine@mindvox.com” <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Message text written by Sara
Iboga will reduce big amount of bacteria ( parasites) that are living in
symbiotic relationship with our bodies, which is another story but make
iboga worth trying to reduce the chance of total invasion of your body,
And bring you closer to your original “you” when born, who is different to
the “you”<

Sara,
On a number of occasions you have referred to you patients as ” Free from
sugar addiction.”  If you have the time would you please explain in further
detail what you know of the freedom from sugar after using Ibogaine?

Respectfully Yours,

Jon Ludlam

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism
Date: January 27, 2005 at 5:27:15 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: 27 January 2005 00:35
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism

Get your shit together and do it. Heroin’s days are
numbered, man.<

I’m not taking heroin.
Though there have been a couple times over the last few years
where I have
relented and bought a bag or three, those times were extremely
few and far
between and are a while past now. Not a year yet, but over half at least,
probably closer to nine months or so since last time I did that.

If you find
these emails scarey then, fuck man, recognize that – you get scared by
emails suggesting you’re gonna be pushed into looking harder at
yourself. It
provokes a big reaction, look at that. You’re an aware guy. Check it out.<

You’re missing the point Nick.
The scary thing about your emails is that you seem to be serious,
that you
support forcing other people to submit to your views by force. This is
mostly scary to me because I’m just now discovering this, and now I’m
concerned because I don’t know what I’ve divulged on list you may
have read
and will one day decide to rat me or someone else out over
because you think
it would do us good to have someone drag us out of our homes and teach us
the better, or your way anyway. That’s what scares me, not
looking harder at
myself. I don’t have a single problem with that particular issue,
of looking
deep and hard within myself, and that you might think I do have
issue with
that is another thing that leaves me shaking my head, considering
just how
open I am and always have been about myself and my feelings and
emotions on
this list. The reaction is notr the looking inside myself, it’s
you thinking
it’s ok to force others to your way of living and thinking. That’s a
terrible way to go through life in my opinion, and I’m glad I’m
not somehow
under your control. That’s a fate I am glad I’ve so far escaped
and hope I
continue to do so for a long, long time.

Hi Preston,

Yeah, well, personally, I had a nice scream and shout for 10 minutes this
morning. Then I thought about this dialogue for while, and whether I’m like
totally off for writing like this, and I realized I’m totally fine with it.
If the German government wants to push addicts who are fucking up a bit
harder, I think it’s ok. That’s my position.

love

Nick

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism
Date: January 27, 2005 at 4:37:37 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: ….Ken [mailto:chayco@island.net]
Sent: 27 January 2005 02:08
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism

—– Original Message —–
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 2:48 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism

So the prohibitionists are acting as agents of a higher world
conciousness.

Unconsciously, yes!

Good to know that.
Granted heroin hasn’t been around all that long, but still, opium
has and if
one does enough of it the effects are remarkably similar to
heroin. Were
those who used it for the thousands upon thousands of years
for so many
different reasons wrong after all? So if our use of this and other
substances was so wrong, how in the heck did we manage to
evolve so far
along then?

Preston, man, you’ll have to just wait and watch it all happen.

Evolution is not a linear process, it goes on in leaps and
bounds and it’s
starting to leap up a bit now. When I saw the response in Europe to the
tsunami disaster it was obvious to me that stuff was really
changing. When
people who ten years ago couldn’t give a shit start throwing their money
out
to people they don’t even know in that way you know consciousness is
really
shifting gears. Yes, we experience life as being something that’s
happening
to the personal me, but underneath that it’s just consciousness and it’s
depersonalized. When it starts moving it just moves. The experience of
having a personal identity shifts with it. That’s how you get
prohibitionist
or pro-enforced-therapy movements. And when it starts to move like this
there develops a huge subconscious craving for light, for
awareness. What
you see in Germany with the shifting attitude to addiction is just the
beginning. And it’s good! I mean, who wants to be a junkie forever, for
fuck’s sake?

So, people want to be able to choose how they come off drugs?
Fair enough,
but choose now! Get your shit together and do it. Heroin’s days are
numbered, man. Maktab, it is written. And sealed with the seven
seals and
all that stuff. Give yourself a break and move away from it now. If you
find
these emails scarey then, fuck man, recognize that – you get scared by
emails suggesting you’re gonna be pushed into looking harder at
yourself.
It
provokes a big reaction, look at that. You’re an aware guy.
Check it out.

Love

Nick

Gawd damn , I’ve been biting my tongue.

You folks should feel privledged to witness first hand the face
of the ‘new
age nazi movement’. Nick, I have to thank you for vindicating me in my
learned response to people who pass out their sanctimonious verbiage like
car salesmen.

Listen ‘ere folks, Nick is alright…..a wee misdirected, but he will grow
out of it.

The reason we all go grey when we age ….and evolve through personal
experience…is because it helps us understand that there just
aren’t black
and white answers anymore …….shades of grey…..different
prespectives.

I think someone should volunteer to go ‘underground’ and check out Nick’s
peace and love camp and report back to the group.

…….Ken

YES! This would be a great idea! How about you, Ken?

Love

Nick

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I’m going to stick my dick in the mashed potetoes
Date: January 27, 2005 at 1:21:06 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m going to stick my dick in the mashed potetoes

No potatoes for me thanks mate.

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism
Date: January 27, 2005 at 1:04:40 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

*Nick,

*Mate,…..that’s a very scary comment.
*What then after that?

with love,
Jasen.

What about just being a general fucking drag, junkie or otherwise? I mean,
don’t you agree it would be great to have some social laws for people who
don’t want to participate in life? OK, it could be abused and Who make the
Rules Up and all that, but really I think some people should just be dragged
out of their homes and made to take part.

with love

Nick

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From: Robert Ray <robertray_2000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism
Date: January 26, 2005 at 9:42:05 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Can anybody please give my a working address to get off this list???
Thanks,
Robert

“….Ken” <chayco@island.net> wrote:

—– Original Message —–
From: “Nick Sandberg”
To:
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 2:48 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism

> >
> > So the prohibitionists are acting as agents of a higher world
> > conciousness.
>
> Unconsciously, yes!
>
> > Good to know that.
> > Granted heroin hasn’t been around all that long, but still, opium
> > has and if
> > one does enough of it the effects are remarkably similar to heroin. Were
> > those who used it for the thousands upon thousands of years for so many
> > different reasons wrong after all? So if our use of this and other
> > substances was so wrong, how in the heck did we manage to evolve so far
> > along then?
> >
>
> Preston, man, you’ll have to just wait and watch it all happen.
>
> Evolution is not a linear process, it goes on in leaps and bounds and it’s
> starting to leap up a bit now. When I saw the response in Europe to the
> tsunami disaster it was obvious to me that stuff was really changing. When
> people who ten years ago couldn’t give a shit start throwing their money
out
> to people they don’t even know in that way you know consciousness is
really
> shifting gears. Yes, we experience life as being something that’s
happening
> to the personal me, but underneath that it’s just consciousness and it’s
> depersonalized. When it starts moving it just moves. The experience of
> having a personal identity shifts with it. That’s how you get
prohibitionist
> or pro-enforced-therapy movements. And when it starts to move like this
> there develops a huge subconscious craving for light, for awareness. What
> you see in Germany with the shifting attitude to addiction is just the
> beginning. And it’s good! I mean, who wants to be a junkie forever, for
> fuck’s sake?
>
> So, people want to be able to choose how they come off drugs? Fair enough,
> but choose now! Get your shit together and do it. Heroin’s days are
> numbered, man. Maktab, it is written. And sealed with the seven seals and
> all that stuff. Give yourself a break and move away from it now. If you
find
> these emails scarey then, fuck man, recognize that – you get scared by
> emails suggesting you’re gonna be pushed into looking harder at yourself.
It
> provokes a big reaction, look at that. You’re an aware guy. Check it out.
>
> Love
>
> Nick

Gawd damn , I’ve been biting my tongue.

You folks should feel privledged to witness first hand the face of the ‘new
age nazi movement’. Nick, I have to thank you for vindicating me in my
learned response to people who pass out their sanctimonious verbiage like
car salesmen.

Listen ‘ere folks, Nick is alright…..a wee misdirected, but he will grow
out of it.

The reason we all go grey when we age ….and evolve through personal
experience…is because it helps us understand that there just aren’t black
and white answers anymore …….shades of grey…..different prespectives.

I think someone should volunteer to go ‘underground’ and check out Nick’s
peace and love camp and report back to the group.

…….Ken

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From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Long ‘article’ on history of Ibogaine/Sub WDs???
Date: January 26, 2005 at 9:17:44 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi,

I came across this whilst looking for something completely different!  Its on a forum so I assume it’s a post-may be worth checking out the actual forum?  I don’t have time, just thought I’d post the link

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/3587390/an/0/page/0

I don’t know if it’s been shown before-it’s got the Mash quote about leaving dying people in hotel rooms or whatever.  I’ll definitely be checking the site out later anyway.

I’m doing well and still clean. I don’t really crave it either but then I’ve totally changed most of the group of people I hang out with.  Those who still use are good enough friends to keep it away from me.

Coming off Sub?  I dunno.  For me its been easy cutting down though I have noticed I’ve been getting headaches but that could be any number of things!  I know its controversial-some people say yes but alot say no (as to WDs).  As far as I’m (and this is only my very own observation) aware its relatively or just about painless.  I’m just finding it hard, not to cut down which was easy (and I did it fast) but to stop doing it altogether now I’m down to like 1 or 2mg a day.  I’m going to stabilise on 1mg asap per day and then do that 1mg every 2 days and stabilise, then every 3 and then I shouldn’t feel a thing when I stop completely.  Its just the physical act of taking something every morning that I’m going to find hard to break.  I’m very prone to psychosomatic illnesses if I have the slightest excuse! 😉

I’m thinking of switching to Naltrexone and trying to work up the cash to go to Sara’s but it just isn’t happening right now.  I’m having enough trouble finding my rent and don’t ask about food!  I’m sure it will be there for me at the right time so I’m not worried.  When the pupil is ready the teacher will appear or whatever that quote is!

Oh I’ve got 700+ list emails now n never have time to go through them but the headings I keep seeing have me filled with curiosity!!!

Love, Happiness and Hugs to everyone,
Hannah

From: “….Ken” <chayco@island.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism
Date: January 26, 2005 at 9:07:42 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 2:48 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism

So the prohibitionists are acting as agents of a higher world
conciousness.

Unconsciously, yes!

Good to know that.
Granted heroin hasn’t been around all that long, but still, opium
has and if
one does enough of it the effects are remarkably similar to heroin. Were
those who used it for the thousands upon thousands of years for so many
different reasons wrong after all? So if our use of this and other
substances was so wrong, how in the heck did we manage to evolve so far
along then?

Preston, man, you’ll have to just wait and watch it all happen.

Evolution is not a linear process, it goes on in leaps and bounds and it’s
starting to leap up a bit now. When I saw the response in Europe to the
tsunami disaster it was obvious to me that stuff was really changing. When
people who ten years ago couldn’t give a shit start throwing their money
out
to people they don’t even know in that way you know consciousness is
really
shifting gears. Yes, we experience life as being something that’s
happening
to the personal me, but underneath that it’s just consciousness and it’s
depersonalized. When it starts moving it just moves. The experience of
having a personal identity shifts with it. That’s how you get
prohibitionist
or pro-enforced-therapy movements. And when it starts to move like this
there develops a huge subconscious craving for light, for awareness. What
you see in Germany with the shifting attitude to addiction is just the
beginning. And it’s good! I mean, who wants to be a junkie forever, for
fuck’s sake?

So, people want to be able to choose how they come off drugs? Fair enough,
but choose now! Get your shit together and do it. Heroin’s days are
numbered, man. Maktab, it is written. And sealed with the seven seals and
all that stuff. Give yourself a break and move away from it now. If you
find
these emails scarey then, fuck man, recognize that – you get scared by
emails suggesting you’re gonna be pushed into looking harder at yourself.
It
provokes a big reaction, look at that. You’re an aware guy. Check it out.

Love

Nick

Gawd damn , I’ve been biting my tongue.

You folks should feel privledged to witness first hand the face of the ‘new
age nazi movement’. Nick, I have to thank you for vindicating me in my
learned response to people who pass out their sanctimonious verbiage like
car salesmen.

Listen ‘ere folks, Nick is alright…..a wee misdirected, but he will grow
out of it.

The reason we all go grey when we age ….and evolve through personal
experience…is because it helps us understand that there just aren’t black
and white answers anymore …….shades of grey…..different prespectives.

I think someone should volunteer to go ‘underground’ and check out Nick’s
peace and love camp and report back to the group.

…….Ken

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism
Date: January 26, 2005 at 8:56:08 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

So, people want to be able to choose how they come off drugs? Fair
enough,
but choose now! Get your shit together and do it. Heroin’s days are
numbered, man. Maktab, it is written. And sealed with the seven seals
and
all that stuff. Give yourself a break and move away from it now. If you
find
these emails scarey then, fuck man, recognize that – you get scared by
emails suggesting you’re gonna be pushed into looking harder at
yourself.
It
provokes a big reaction, look at that. You’re an aware guy. Check it
out.

my 2 cents…

heroin caused me a lot of misery to be certain, but i remain unconvinced
that heroin is “bad”. i don’t believe a substance can be bad in and of
itself; it’s a matter of who is using the drug, and why. in many contexts,
heroin use is problematic, and often seriously so. but it’s still a matter
of context. heroin certainly isn’t devoid of benefits, if it was, nobody
would take it in the first place. at some point, the majority of heroin
users realise that the benefits are outweighed by the negative effects;
but, and this is the key point i think, that balance is different for
every individual. it is presumptuous to think that what seems right for
oneself is also right for everyone else.

i support encouraging people to develop a sense of clarity when they
approach this decisional balance, otherwise i wouldn’t be going into
psychology…. but in the end, it’s the individual’s own perceptions that
matter. if someone believes they are better off on heroin, not only is
that their right as an autonomous individual, but it could very well be
true. being that they are the ones inhabiting their own bodies, they’re in
the best position to know.

or, put more simply, one man’s poison is another man’s medicine…

j0n

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I’m going to stick my dick in the mashed potetoes
Date: January 26, 2005 at 7:37:05 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

It
just bores me when junkies try and intellectually defend being junkies.<

It irritates the hell out of me (not to mention leaves me a bit naseous) when other people try and defend their prejudice against “junkies” as somehow honorable or righteous, when it’s not either.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Mysterious Roots- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Explorations and Enigmas” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 5:59 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] I’m going to stick my dick in the mashed potetoes

—–Original Message—–
From: Kirsty Sutherland [mailto:captkirk@kol.co.nz]
Sent: 26 January 2005 22:39
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] I’m going to stick my dick in the mashed potetoes

I guess I have met a few “drug users” who are dull and a drag,
but I’ve also
met some “drug users” who are creative as all hell (whereas
BEFORE they used
drugs, they were a Joe Schmo, going along with the 9 to 5’ers, social
climbers oh yehhhhhh) (punk song from 80’s)  they’re working on what THEY
want to do, they create music, art all of which is stunning and amazing…
they’re brilliant to talk to…. I mean look at wassis name… William
Burroughs?? Would you call him a drag???? I don’t think so!!!  So
drug users
are ALL so dull…….. but some are! But then again, some non drug users
are a drag…… geeee I’m so confused now!@!!!!
Over to you……………………….NICK!!!!! :o)
Luff heapz
Kirk

Like where did I say all drug users were a drag? I never said that, babe. It
just bores me when junkies try and intellectually defend being junkies. That
is just SO drag. Love Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: Nick Sandberg [mailto:nick227@tiscali.co.uk]
Sent: Thursday, 27 January 2005 9:08 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] I’m going to stick my dick in the mashed potetoes

> —–Original Message—–
> From: knowone knowwhere [mailto:kn0m0n3@yahoo.co.uk]
> Sent: 26 January 2005 17:51
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Subject: [Ibogaine] I’m going to stick my dick in the mashed potetoes
>
>
>
>
>
> Some Ibo Vids:
> http://www.pot-tv.net/archive/archive.cgi?q=ibogaine
>
> “stick mY dick in tha mashed potatoes” sound comes
> from ISBN: 724382859925 Trk 3
>  Fair Use Contact?
>     Try http://capitalrecords.com/contact.htm
> to see, I dunno.
> I figure they got it from someone else so Why Not?
>
>   Nick,  I think the term “fencing in” comes across a
> little threatening and sounds like coming from a
> source that doesn’t take it’s own perspective with a
> grain of salt.  (Umm..I do that too if you can’t
> already tell)
>

Well, it doesn’t threaten me personally. How you see it is up to you, for
sure.

>   I couldn’t agree with “Hi Feds”Preston more re: it’s
> not as simple as heroin bad/ibogaine good, because,
> well, it’s just not.
>

OK, thank you for pointing that out.

>   Some almost conclusions I have reached through My
> Limited experience is Prohibition  of “drugs” (Ibo AND
> Heroin too) caused/causes MUCH more damage then the
> “drugs” themselves could ever cause.  Way More.  All
> the way down to
>                 Invoking Shame
> Because they have some sort of self percieved moral
> authority to invoke it.
>
> In case you haven’t noticed, Junkies don’t like being
> told what to do, just like non junkies.
>

Yes, but they rarely, in my experience, have the guts to really put their
negativity out. Not necessarily through any innate personality
disfunction,
but because using heroin blocks expression. Because you use h you’re too
numbed out to express your authority trips and thus they stay forever, and
that makes for a seriously DULL planet. That’s why I advocate
dragging this
stuff out into the light of day, kicking and screaming if
necessary. If you
really put out an authority trip you can see how, underneath it,
you’re just
keeping yourself small and safe, then you can move beyond this
position and
expand. Whilst you’re too gauched out to even express a feeling properly
nothing can move and you become, imo, one serious fucking drag.

> I like people to give me my options then let me
> decide.
>
> How am I not supposed to see this as scarry?:
>
> “a fencing-in tool”
>
> “I think some people should just be
> dragged
> out of their homes and made to take part.”
>
>
> I couldn’t disagree more with what is written here:
> “I mean ibogaine IS
> fencing-in,
> basic principle of liberating consciousness – enclose
> it.”
>
> HOw can you use fencing-in and liberating
> consciousness together like that, dat dunt muk scaunse
> 2 me mohn.
> You mention treatment centers that do this, well ok.
> If they were that sucessful at it we wouldn’t be here
> talking about Ibogaine.
>

Study the process of initiation, man. It’s all the same principle –
containment. Really, study it. You’ll see the same pattern
everywhere. It’s
“fixation” in alchemy, crucifixion in Christianity, iboga in Bwiti – and
it’s all the same process. Mutability, Fixation, Cardinality (Godliness).
Maybe if you do enough smack you can miss it in this lifetime but, rest
assured, we’ll get you in the next (if you get one)! It’s Huis
Clos, no way
out! Really! We’ll sucker you in with some nice spacey chit-chat about
ibogaine being a psychoactive, then when the exit is blocked, Wham! Now
you’re gonna look at who you are, like it or not!

> People aren’t bad people just because they eat
> chocolate,  Same with Opiate users (moderate or
> heavy).
> I have been “clean” <– see even that term is loaded
> with SHame, to imply that if not meeting some
> determined (by who) formula that I am somehow
> “unclean”, can we say bRa1NwA$h1nG?

Look, I’m not laying SHame on you. You’re doing that to yourself.

> Anyways without Methadone or opiates for going on 2
> years now.  I am Cynical as FUck, always have been.  I
> don’t think that just because I choose not to, that
> everybody in the world has to stop too, again, not
> taking own perspective with a grain of salt.
> I don’t think hugging/saying fuck off, fuzzy
> feelings/resentful feeling, some oneiric Christ
> experience, overanalysing or underanaylsing is NOT
> required, each has different goals when taking ibo.
>
> If I could be arrested and given my prescribed
> medication I wouldn’t think twice about getting on and
> staying on for life, but that ain’t how it is, so I
> don’t.
>
>    Nick, I don’t really have a problem with what you
> are saying, I just think their may be a more workable
> way to communicate what you are trying to get across,
> that’s all.
>

But I’m actually not trying to get anything across.

with love

Nick

>   “I like it when I can see the whole person,”
>   You have to have trust first.  Making LOve and
> Fucking are not the same thing.  If you want to see
> the whole person…use the terms “ego” and “fencing
> in” More More More, or not.
>
>
>
>
>
> Ok enough of dat.
>
> <tucking sheets ‘n bed>
>
> May I hear the Blue Pearl Story Please?
>
>
>
>
>
>                                [* *]
>                                 (_)
>                               Sp^ce k0k0
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________
> ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!
http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

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Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.302 / Virus Database: 265.6.5 – Release Date: 12/26/2004


Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.302 / Virus Database: 265.6.5 – Release Date: 12/26/2004

/]=—————————————————————
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[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism
Date: January 26, 2005 at 7:34:40 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Get your shit together and do it. Heroin’s days are
numbered, man.<

I’m not taking heroin.
Though there have been a couple times over the last few years where I have relented and bought a bag or three, those times were extremely few and far between and are a while past now. Not a year yet, but over half at least, probably closer to nine months or so since last time I did that.

If you find
these emails scarey then, fuck man, recognize that – you get scared by
emails suggesting you’re gonna be pushed into looking harder at yourself. It
provokes a big reaction, look at that. You’re an aware guy. Check it out.<

You’re missing the point Nick.
The scary thing about your emails is that you seem to be serious, that you support forcing other people to submit to your views by force. This is mostly scary to me because I’m just now discovering this, and now I’m concerned because I don’t know what I’ve divulged on list you may have read and will one day decide to rat me or someone else out over because you think it would do us good to have someone drag us out of our homes and teach us the better, or your way anyway. That’s what scares me, not looking harder at myself. I don’t have a single problem with that particular issue, of looking deep and hard within myself, and that you might think I do have issue with that is another thing that leaves me shaking my head, considering just how open I am and always have been about myself and my feelings and emotions on this list. The reaction is notr the looking inside myself, it’s you thinking it’s ok to force others to your way of living and thinking. That’s a terrible way to go through life in my opinion, and I’m glad I’m not somehow under your control. That’s a fate I am glad I’ve so far escaped and hope I continue to do so for a long, long time.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Mysterious Roots- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Explorations and Enigmas” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 5:48 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: 26 January 2005 21:56
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism

>As the overall level of consciousness on the planet starts
to rise and stabilize so heroin is going to become about the
least hip thing
imaginable.<

So the prohibitionists are acting as agents of a higher world
conciousness.

Unconsciously, yes!

Good to know that.
Granted heroin hasn’t been around all that long, but still, opium
has and if
one does enough of it the effects are remarkably similar to heroin. Were
those who used it for the thousands upon thousands of years for so many
different reasons wrong after all? So if our use of this and other
substances was so wrong, how in the heck did we manage to evolve so far
along then?

Preston, man, you’ll have to just wait and watch it all happen.

Evolution is not a linear process, it goes on in leaps and bounds and it’s
starting to leap up a bit now. When I saw the response in Europe to the
tsunami disaster it was obvious to me that stuff was really changing. When
people who ten years ago couldn’t give a shit start throwing their money out
to people they don’t even know in that way you know consciousness is really
shifting gears. Yes, we experience life as being something that’s happening
to the personal me, but underneath that it’s just consciousness and it’s
depersonalized. When it starts moving it just moves. The experience of
having a personal identity shifts with it. That’s how you get prohibitionist
or pro-enforced-therapy movements. And when it starts to move like this
there develops a huge subconscious craving for light, for awareness. What
you see in Germany with the shifting attitude to addiction is just the
beginning. And it’s good! I mean, who wants to be a junkie forever, for
fuck’s sake?

So, people want to be able to choose how they come off drugs? Fair enough,
but choose now! Get your shit together and do it. Heroin’s days are
numbered, man. Maktab, it is written. And sealed with the seven seals and
all that stuff. Give yourself a break and move away from it now. If you find
these emails scarey then, fuck man, recognize that – you get scared by
emails suggesting you’re gonna be pushed into looking harder at yourself. It
provokes a big reaction, look at that. You’re an aware guy. Check it out.

Love

Nick

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

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From: “Kirsty Sutherland” <captkirk@kol.co.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] I’m not going to eat any mashed potatoes from now on!!!!
Date: January 26, 2005 at 7:05:09 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

He who Shouts Loudest, Gets Puncheded in the Headeth Firstest!
For, I am God, and that is My Way
;o)
Kiss hugs
Koik

—–Original Message—–
From: Nick Sandberg [mailto:nick227@tiscali.co.uk]
Sent: Thursday, 27 January 2005 12:36 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] I’m not going to eat any mashed potatoes from now
on!!!!

—–Original Message—–
From: Kirsty Sutherland [mailto:captkirk@kol.co.nz]
Sent: 26 January 2005 23:19
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] I’m not going to eat any mashed potatoes from
now on!!!!

Well, Babe, you didn’t really Not say it.

OK, so if I haven’t like categorically denied something then I’ve actually
said it? Ok, that sounds fair. I can go with that.

..and I have to say, you
remind me
of some people I know who have become born again christians…. and when I
meditate, I should try calling on Jesus Christ.  And they think they’re
right. And then there’s all these people out there with different view
points and different healing modalities, and they say they’re right, so I
have to ask, who’s right here?

Why, whoever shouts the loudest of course. That’s God’s way. Nick x

So that’s when I came to the realisation, there is no wrong and
there is no
right (cept when it comes to me, I’m always right even when I’m
wrong.. blah
blahblah)
And I’m exactly where I’m supposed to be.
I can only hope and pray that when the fascists DO take over and
force me to
do things against my will (that’s supposed to be FREE WILL) that I am in a
place where I will be left alone.
It’s all a journey…. good and bad, the only reason I’m still here is I
want to see what happens next………….(cue Jaws style music….)
Wassa Intulleckyouall?
Kirk :oP

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/


Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.302 / Virus Database: 265.6.5 – Release Date: 12/26/2004


Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.302 / Virus Database: 265.6.5 – Release Date: 12/26/2004

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] I’m not going to eat any mashed potatoes from now on!!!!
Date: January 26, 2005 at 6:36:26 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: Kirsty Sutherland [mailto:captkirk@kol.co.nz]
Sent: 26 January 2005 23:19
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] I’m not going to eat any mashed potatoes from
now on!!!!

Well, Babe, you didn’t really Not say it.

OK, so if I haven’t like categorically denied something then I’ve actually
said it? Ok, that sounds fair. I can go with that.

..and I have to say, you
remind me
of some people I know who have become born again christians…. and when I
meditate, I should try calling on Jesus Christ.  And they think they’re
right. And then there’s all these people out there with different view
points and different healing modalities, and they say they’re right, so I
have to ask, who’s right here?

Why, whoever shouts the loudest of course. That’s God’s way. Nick x

So that’s when I came to the realisation, there is no wrong and
there is no
right (cept when it comes to me, I’m always right even when I’m
wrong.. blah
blahblah)
And I’m exactly where I’m supposed to be.
I can only hope and pray that when the fascists DO take over and
force me to
do things against my will (that’s supposed to be FREE WILL) that I am in a
place where I will be left alone.
It’s all a journey…. good and bad, the only reason I’m still here is I
want to see what happens next………….(cue Jaws style music….)
Wassa Intulleckyouall?
Kirk :oP

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Kirsty Sutherland” <captkirk@kol.co.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] I’m not going to eat any mashed potatoes from now on!!!!
Date: January 26, 2005 at 6:19:15 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Well, Babe, you didn’t really Not say it…and I have to say, you remind me
of some people I know who have become born again christians…. and when I
meditate, I should try calling on Jesus Christ.  And they think they’re
right. And then there’s all these people out there with different view
points and different healing modalities, and they say they’re right, so I
have to ask, who’s right here?
So that’s when I came to the realisation, there is no wrong and there is no
right (cept when it comes to me, I’m always right even when I’m wrong.. blah
blahblah)
And I’m exactly where I’m supposed to be.
I can only hope and pray that when the fascists DO take over and force me to
do things against my will (that’s supposed to be FREE WILL) that I am in a
place where I will be left alone.
It’s all a journey…. good and bad, the only reason I’m still here is I
want to see what happens next………….(cue Jaws style music….)
Wassa Intulleckyouall?
Kirk :oP

—–Original Message—–
From: Nick Sandberg [mailto:nick227@tiscali.co.uk]
Sent: Thursday, 27 January 2005 11:59 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] I’m going to stick my dick in the mashed potetoes

—–Original Message—–
From: Kirsty Sutherland [mailto:captkirk@kol.co.nz]
Sent: 26 January 2005 22:39
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] I’m going to stick my dick in the mashed potetoes

I guess I have met a few “drug users” who are dull and a drag,
but I’ve also
met some “drug users” who are creative as all hell (whereas
BEFORE they used
drugs, they were a Joe Schmo, going along with the 9 to 5’ers, social
climbers oh yehhhhhh) (punk song from 80’s)  they’re working on what THEY
want to do, they create music, art all of which is stunning and amazing…
they’re brilliant to talk to…. I mean look at wassis name… William
Burroughs?? Would you call him a drag???? I don’t think so!!!  So
drug users
are ALL so dull…….. but some are! But then again, some non drug users
are a drag…… geeee I’m so confused now!@!!!!
Over to you……………………….NICK!!!!! :o)
Luff heapz
Kirk

Like where did I say all drug users were a drag? I never said that, babe. It
just bores me when junkies try and intellectually defend being junkies. That
is just SO drag. Love Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: Nick Sandberg [mailto:nick227@tiscali.co.uk]
Sent: Thursday, 27 January 2005 9:08 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] I’m going to stick my dick in the mashed potetoes

—–Original Message—–
From: knowone knowwhere [mailto:kn0m0n3@yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: 26 January 2005 17:51
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] I’m going to stick my dick in the mashed potetoes

Some Ibo Vids:
http://www.pot-tv.net/archive/archive.cgi?q=ibogaine

“stick mY dick in tha mashed potatoes” sound comes
from ISBN: 724382859925 Trk 3
Fair Use Contact?
Try http://capitalrecords.com/contact.htm
to see, I dunno.
I figure they got it from someone else so Why Not?

Nick,  I think the term “fencing in” comes across a
little threatening and sounds like coming from a
source that doesn’t take it’s own perspective with a
grain of salt.  (Umm..I do that too if you can’t
already tell)

Well, it doesn’t threaten me personally. How you see it is up to you, for
sure.

I couldn’t agree with “Hi Feds”Preston more re: it’s
not as simple as heroin bad/ibogaine good, because,
well, it’s just not.

OK, thank you for pointing that out.

Some almost conclusions I have reached through My
Limited experience is Prohibition  of “drugs” (Ibo AND
Heroin too) caused/causes MUCH more damage then the
“drugs” themselves could ever cause.  Way More.  All
the way down to
Invoking Shame
Because they have some sort of self percieved moral
authority to invoke it.

In case you haven’t noticed, Junkies don’t like being
told what to do, just like non junkies.

Yes, but they rarely, in my experience, have the guts to really put their
negativity out. Not necessarily through any innate personality
disfunction,
but because using heroin blocks expression. Because you use h you’re too
numbed out to express your authority trips and thus they stay forever, and
that makes for a seriously DULL planet. That’s why I advocate
dragging this
stuff out into the light of day, kicking and screaming if
necessary. If you
really put out an authority trip you can see how, underneath it,
you’re just
keeping yourself small and safe, then you can move beyond this
position and
expand. Whilst you’re too gauched out to even express a feeling properly
nothing can move and you become, imo, one serious fucking drag.

I like people to give me my options then let me
decide.

How am I not supposed to see this as scarry?:

“a fencing-in tool”

“I think some people should just be
dragged
out of their homes and made to take part.”

I couldn’t disagree more with what is written here:
“I mean ibogaine IS
fencing-in,
basic principle of liberating consciousness – enclose
it.”

HOw can you use fencing-in and liberating
consciousness together like that, dat dunt muk scaunse
2 me mohn.
You mention treatment centers that do this, well ok.
If they were that sucessful at it we wouldn’t be here
talking about Ibogaine.

Study the process of initiation, man. It’s all the same principle –
containment. Really, study it. You’ll see the same pattern
everywhere. It’s
“fixation” in alchemy, crucifixion in Christianity, iboga in Bwiti – and
it’s all the same process. Mutability, Fixation, Cardinality (Godliness).
Maybe if you do enough smack you can miss it in this lifetime but, rest
assured, we’ll get you in the next (if you get one)! It’s Huis
Clos, no way
out! Really! We’ll sucker you in with some nice spacey chit-chat about
ibogaine being a psychoactive, then when the exit is blocked, Wham! Now
you’re gonna look at who you are, like it or not!

People aren’t bad people just because they eat
chocolate,  Same with Opiate users (moderate or
heavy).
I have been “clean” <– see even that term is loaded
with SHame, to imply that if not meeting some
determined (by who) formula that I am somehow
“unclean”, can we say bRa1NwA$h1nG?

Look, I’m not laying SHame on you. You’re doing that to yourself.

Anyways without Methadone or opiates for going on 2
years now.  I am Cynical as FUck, always have been.  I
don’t think that just because I choose not to, that
everybody in the world has to stop too, again, not
taking own perspective with a grain of salt.
I don’t think hugging/saying fuck off, fuzzy
feelings/resentful feeling, some oneiric Christ
experience, overanalysing or underanaylsing is NOT
required, each has different goals when taking ibo.

If I could be arrested and given my prescribed
medication I wouldn’t think twice about getting on and
staying on for life, but that ain’t how it is, so I
don’t.

Nick, I don’t really have a problem with what you
are saying, I just think their may be a more workable
way to communicate what you are trying to get across,
that’s all.

But I’m actually not trying to get anything across.

with love

Nick

“I like it when I can see the whole person,”
You have to have trust first.  Making LOve and
Fucking are not the same thing.  If you want to see
the whole person…use the terms “ego” and “fencing
in” More More More, or not.

Ok enough of dat.

<tucking sheets ‘n bed>

May I hear the Blue Pearl Story Please?

[* *]
(_)
Sp^ce k0k0

___________________________________________________________
ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!
http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

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[%]

\]=—————————————————————
——=[/


Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.302 / Virus Database: 265.6.5 – Release Date: 12/26/2004


Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.302 / Virus Database: 265.6.5 – Release Date: 12/26/2004

/]=—————————————————————
——=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
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/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.302 / Virus Database: 265.6.5 – Release Date: 12/26/2004


Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.302 / Virus Database: 265.6.5 – Release Date: 12/26/2004

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\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] I’m going to stick my dick in the mashed potetoes
Date: January 26, 2005 at 5:59:25 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: Kirsty Sutherland [mailto:captkirk@kol.co.nz]
Sent: 26 January 2005 22:39
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] I’m going to stick my dick in the mashed potetoes

I guess I have met a few “drug users” who are dull and a drag,
but I’ve also
met some “drug users” who are creative as all hell (whereas
BEFORE they used
drugs, they were a Joe Schmo, going along with the 9 to 5’ers, social
climbers oh yehhhhhh) (punk song from 80’s)  they’re working on what THEY
want to do, they create music, art all of which is stunning and amazing…
they’re brilliant to talk to…. I mean look at wassis name… William
Burroughs?? Would you call him a drag???? I don’t think so!!!  So
drug users
are ALL so dull…….. but some are! But then again, some non drug users
are a drag…… geeee I’m so confused now!@!!!!
Over to you……………………….NICK!!!!! :o)
Luff heapz
Kirk

Like where did I say all drug users were a drag? I never said that, babe. It
just bores me when junkies try and intellectually defend being junkies. That
is just SO drag. Love Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: Nick Sandberg [mailto:nick227@tiscali.co.uk]
Sent: Thursday, 27 January 2005 9:08 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] I’m going to stick my dick in the mashed potetoes

—–Original Message—–
From: knowone knowwhere [mailto:kn0m0n3@yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: 26 January 2005 17:51
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] I’m going to stick my dick in the mashed potetoes

Some Ibo Vids:
http://www.pot-tv.net/archive/archive.cgi?q=ibogaine

“stick mY dick in tha mashed potatoes” sound comes
from ISBN: 724382859925 Trk 3
Fair Use Contact?
Try http://capitalrecords.com/contact.htm
to see, I dunno.
I figure they got it from someone else so Why Not?

Nick,  I think the term “fencing in” comes across a
little threatening and sounds like coming from a
source that doesn’t take it’s own perspective with a
grain of salt.  (Umm..I do that too if you can’t
already tell)

Well, it doesn’t threaten me personally. How you see it is up to you, for
sure.

I couldn’t agree with “Hi Feds”Preston more re: it’s
not as simple as heroin bad/ibogaine good, because,
well, it’s just not.

OK, thank you for pointing that out.

Some almost conclusions I have reached through My
Limited experience is Prohibition  of “drugs” (Ibo AND
Heroin too) caused/causes MUCH more damage then the
“drugs” themselves could ever cause.  Way More.  All
the way down to
Invoking Shame
Because they have some sort of self percieved moral
authority to invoke it.

In case you haven’t noticed, Junkies don’t like being
told what to do, just like non junkies.

Yes, but they rarely, in my experience, have the guts to really put their
negativity out. Not necessarily through any innate personality
disfunction,
but because using heroin blocks expression. Because you use h you’re too
numbed out to express your authority trips and thus they stay forever, and
that makes for a seriously DULL planet. That’s why I advocate
dragging this
stuff out into the light of day, kicking and screaming if
necessary. If you
really put out an authority trip you can see how, underneath it,
you’re just
keeping yourself small and safe, then you can move beyond this
position and
expand. Whilst you’re too gauched out to even express a feeling properly
nothing can move and you become, imo, one serious fucking drag.

I like people to give me my options then let me
decide.

How am I not supposed to see this as scarry?:

“a fencing-in tool”

“I think some people should just be
dragged
out of their homes and made to take part.”

I couldn’t disagree more with what is written here:
“I mean ibogaine IS
fencing-in,
basic principle of liberating consciousness – enclose
it.”

HOw can you use fencing-in and liberating
consciousness together like that, dat dunt muk scaunse
2 me mohn.
You mention treatment centers that do this, well ok.
If they were that sucessful at it we wouldn’t be here
talking about Ibogaine.

Study the process of initiation, man. It’s all the same principle –
containment. Really, study it. You’ll see the same pattern
everywhere. It’s
“fixation” in alchemy, crucifixion in Christianity, iboga in Bwiti – and
it’s all the same process. Mutability, Fixation, Cardinality (Godliness).
Maybe if you do enough smack you can miss it in this lifetime but, rest
assured, we’ll get you in the next (if you get one)! It’s Huis
Clos, no way
out! Really! We’ll sucker you in with some nice spacey chit-chat about
ibogaine being a psychoactive, then when the exit is blocked, Wham! Now
you’re gonna look at who you are, like it or not!

People aren’t bad people just because they eat
chocolate,  Same with Opiate users (moderate or
heavy).
I have been “clean” <– see even that term is loaded
with SHame, to imply that if not meeting some
determined (by who) formula that I am somehow
“unclean”, can we say bRa1NwA$h1nG?

Look, I’m not laying SHame on you. You’re doing that to yourself.

Anyways without Methadone or opiates for going on 2
years now.  I am Cynical as FUck, always have been.  I
don’t think that just because I choose not to, that
everybody in the world has to stop too, again, not
taking own perspective with a grain of salt.
I don’t think hugging/saying fuck off, fuzzy
feelings/resentful feeling, some oneiric Christ
experience, overanalysing or underanaylsing is NOT
required, each has different goals when taking ibo.

If I could be arrested and given my prescribed
medication I wouldn’t think twice about getting on and
staying on for life, but that ain’t how it is, so I
don’t.

Nick, I don’t really have a problem with what you
are saying, I just think their may be a more workable
way to communicate what you are trying to get across,
that’s all.

But I’m actually not trying to get anything across.

with love

Nick

“I like it when I can see the whole person,”
You have to have trust first.  Making LOve and
Fucking are not the same thing.  If you want to see
the whole person…use the terms “ego” and “fencing
in” More More More, or not.

Ok enough of dat.

<tucking sheets ‘n bed>

May I hear the Blue Pearl Story Please?

[* *]
(_)
Sp^ce k0k0

___________________________________________________________
ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!
http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

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From: “Kirsty Sutherland” <captkirk@kol.co.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] how to wash a man’s brain.
Date: January 26, 2005 at 5:52:00 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ok everybody, it’s been way to full on here…… so here’s one for you gals out there……
How to Wash a Man’s Brain.
(Hope it comes thru ok)

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism
Date: January 26, 2005 at 5:48:52 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: 26 January 2005 21:56
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism

As the overall level of consciousness on the planet starts
to rise and stabilize so heroin is going to become about the
least hip thing
imaginable.<

So the prohibitionists are acting as agents of a higher world
conciousness.

Unconsciously, yes!

Good to know that.
Granted heroin hasn’t been around all that long, but still, opium
has and if
one does enough of it the effects are remarkably similar to heroin. Were
those who used it for the thousands upon thousands of years for so many
different reasons wrong after all? So if our use of this and other
substances was so wrong, how in the heck did we manage to evolve so far
along then?

Preston, man, you’ll have to just wait and watch it all happen.

Evolution is not a linear process, it goes on in leaps and bounds and it’s
starting to leap up a bit now. When I saw the response in Europe to the
tsunami disaster it was obvious to me that stuff was really changing. When
people who ten years ago couldn’t give a shit start throwing their money out
to people they don’t even know in that way you know consciousness is really
shifting gears. Yes, we experience life as being something that’s happening
to the personal me, but underneath that it’s just consciousness and it’s
depersonalized. When it starts moving it just moves. The experience of
having a personal identity shifts with it. That’s how you get prohibitionist
or pro-enforced-therapy movements. And when it starts to move like this
there develops a huge subconscious craving for light, for awareness. What
you see in Germany with the shifting attitude to addiction is just the
beginning. And it’s good! I mean, who wants to be a junkie forever, for
fuck’s sake?

So, people want to be able to choose how they come off drugs? Fair enough,
but choose now! Get your shit together and do it. Heroin’s days are
numbered, man. Maktab, it is written. And sealed with the seven seals and
all that stuff. Give yourself a break and move away from it now. If you find
these emails scarey then, fuck man, recognize that – you get scared by
emails suggesting you’re gonna be pushed into looking harder at yourself. It
provokes a big reaction, look at that. You’re an aware guy. Check it out.

Love

Nick

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

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From: “Kirsty Sutherland” <captkirk@kol.co.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism
Date: January 26, 2005 at 5:47:08 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Come now sara, did you not know????? GOD IS A JUNKIE!!!!  I mean come on,
who else would say “It’s all good” They just left out the “maaaan”
And come on, again… have you read the bible??????  God was definitely
stoned when he wrote/dictated that book!!!!

—–Original Message—–
From: Sara Glatt [mailto:sara119@xs4all.nl]
Sent: Thursday, 27 January 2005 11:12 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism

“So if our use of this and other substances was so wrong, how in the heck
did we manage to evolve so far along then?”

Magic.Imagine.

Did our creator made a mistake creating us with the abilities to find drugs
and get addicted to them?

Why God said in the Holy Book that “it was all good” if it isn’t.
Is there someone scamming us? So maybe they were aliens who created us by
mistake? It is all a big mistake, God shouldn’t have created drugs or Humans

And then he could say “it is all good”. But then who am I to tell God what
to do or not to do, Hey, and if we are all part of the same one
Then who is who with the right to tell God Her/his/us what is the mistake
And how to correct it, Let’s go back to paradise and we never have to get
high again.

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Verzonden: woensdag 26 januari 2005 22:56
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism

As the overall level of consciousness on the planet starts
to rise and stabilize so heroin is going to become about the least hip thing
imaginable.<

So the prohibitionists are acting as agents of a higher world conciousness.
Good to know that.
Granted heroin hasn’t been around all that long, but still, opium has and if

one does enough of it the effects are remarkably similar to heroin. Were
those who used it for the thousands upon thousands of years for so many
different reasons wrong after all? So if our use of this and other
substances was so wrong, how in the heck did we manage to evolve so far
along then?

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Mysterious Roots- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,

Explorations and Enigmas” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 3:55 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: 26 January 2005 20:19
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism

Nick asked >What about just being a general fucking drag, junkie or
otherwise? I mean,
don’t you agree it would be great to have some social laws for people who
don’t want to participate in life? OK, it could be abused and Who make
the
Rules Up and all that, but really I think some people should just
be dragged
out of their homes and made to take part.
<

What?!
Um, I would prefer not to hang out with a general fucking drag,
but who am I
to take that to the next level. For crying out loud, I find most drunks
total freakin’ drags Nick, but I don’t wanna lock ’em up and make
them face
whatever. I certain do not agree that it would be great to have
some social
laws for people who don’t want to participate in life, I personally find
that horrifying and completely batty.
Again, no offense, but wow, that’s pretty extreme. I’m actually
completely
the opposite, feeling quite the Libertarian when it comes to this sort of
thing.
And I’m sure there are plenty of people who would like to
drag you out
of your home and lock you away for daring even talk about, much less use
such a dangerous and criminal mistake of the lord as ibogaine. (I use
imagined prohibitionist terminology, not my own here.) They’ve already
written some nifty social laws I suppose we could emulate- force everyone
out of their homes, to take ibogaine and face their stuff. Egad,
that’s so
damned not right and downright un-American (again, I jest ’cause
it’s just
too damned America really) what you are saying here. I’m amazed. I think
I’ve not been paying attention to what certain people have been
posting on
this here list.

I mean ibogaine IS fencing-in,
basic principle of liberating consciousness – enclose it. Let it start to
see what it really is, reflected back on itself.<

I gotta just say Nick that while I enjoyed ibogaine and
definitely plan on
going through it at least another time (maybe a lot of other time- won’t
committ to that yet, instead taking it one trip at a time), I didn’t need
ibogaine or any other drug to liberate my consciousness- my “liberated
conciousness” was what lead me to try drugs in the first place,
at least so
I believe. I use various drugs to various reasons, and ibogaine
is one more
drug to use for one more (or more than one, I will definitely
grant it that)
reason too.

I live in a community I love and I work and I
have fun. I like communal living, I like it that we lay our trip on the
world a bit here. Yeah, celebrate existence.<

Funny, so do I, and yeah, I tend to think I celebrate existence
to the very
best of my ability, so I’m not sure what your point is.
But I’m still having trouble with the whole “let’s drag [some? So who
decides who is a drag and who is not Nick, and what constitutes
drag? Would
drag be defined universally or would we take into consideration cultural
mores and habits? Woudl certain clothing styles or musical tastes be
included in this? Or religious or political viewpoints?

Hi Preston,

I mean the thing about dragging people out into the streets will probably
take another couple of decades to become really viable, the way I see it.
But it’ll come for sure if people don’t respond in other ways and show
themselves more. As the overall level of consciousness on the planet
starts
to rise and stabilize so heroin is going to become about the least hip
thing
imaginable. In any rising awareness situation this is something of an
inevitability for analgesics are basically anti-awareness.

I mean, you CAN fight for your rights as junkies, but the problem with
that
is that if you really put your position out fully you’re inevitably going
to
find it transmuted, your awareness will rise through the very action of
really fighting for something, full on with all your energy. Basically,
heroin can’t win, for it relies on the user never going totally into a
feeling to maintain its hold on the body. When society starts to move
towards pushing users more out into the open then a lot of change will
occur
spontaneously for the very action of fully resisting that change actually
catalyses it even more strongly.

love

Nick

It appear
exactly so
from what I’m reading into your words. Sheeze, this is so messed
up, really,
I’m having trouble even wrapping my head around the idea that you might
really be serious) people out of their homes and force them” to
do anything.
I think I’d be very unhappy to see you arrive at my door with
that attitude.
It would lead to very, very unpleasentry and lots of non-huggy and
ingrateness for sure.

I wish sometimes I was more of a cretin so I could curse and fume and not
feel stupid for doing so, because occasionally I’m hit with a brick like
this email from out of nowhere and I really want to express my
amazement in
more gutteral, street lingo, but there are ladies present and all that,
so….

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Mysterious Roots- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
Civilizations,
Explorations and Enigmas” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 10:52 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: 26 January 2005 14:27
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism

Freedom of speech and action is one thing, but if
you have to keep stuffing the world’s most powerful painkiller into
you
day-in-day-out simply to maintain your perspective on the world, then
I
think it’s fine the world pushes you to look deeper. I think
it’s totally
fine. I’m not advocating that junkies are made social scapegoats,
that they
are victimized, but that they’re pushed to look a little deeper, to go
for
awareness, I think that’s fine. In fact I think it’s great and
a sign of
rising world awareness. We are One, and at some point we all have to
start
living that.<

Nick, that’s a little scary to me actually, the idea that someone
might have
enough power to not only feel that they could point me in the
direction they
feel I should be going in my life, but can fence me in to
force me to do
so…oh, wait, that’s already happening with the whole stinkin’
war on some
drugs and user to begin with, nothing new there.
I am a bit taken aback to read the notion from someone as
loving or at
least caring as you come across being.

Hi Preston,

Well, for me, I like to be able to feel someone, you know. Feel who
they
are, connect with them. I’m not so interested in being
presented with the
drug-edited version of who they are that they want to show the
world. For
sure, we all hide ourselves, drug-users or otherwise, but it’s a drag.
I
like it when I can see the whole person, including all the crazy or bad
shit
they think they have to hide away. Druggies are no different
from anybody
else in this.

And I think a bit of fencing-in is fine. The whole “therapeutic
community”
concept, from Synanon to Phoenix House to Humaniversity, I think it’s
great.
When you’re surrounded by others 24 hours a day, reflecting
your behaviour
back at you, you get to find out who you are pretty quickly –
what you’ll
back down about, what you’ll take a stand about, what you care
about, and
what you’ll let go. The core of Christianity was the same – the whole
crucifixion thing is a metaphor, it means you stay in once place and
you
face your shit, they called it the Fixed Cross in astrology – a few
zillion
incarnations on the Mutable cross, then you’re initiated on the Fixed
cross
and have to look, then, when freed from delusion you get to hang out on
the
Cardinal cross. It’s the same principle throughout mythology and
symbolism –
JC on his cross, Odin on his tree, whatever. Bwiti the same, iboga
initiation means you’re incapacitated on the drug and you have
to look at
yourself. That’s what it’s all about psychologically. I mean,
you can come
towards ibogaine from the whole pain-management and neurochemical
perspective and that’s totally fine. But make no mistake, when you
start
dealing with larger doses you’re dealing with a fencing-in tool par
excellence. This is a strange place to hang out if you’re not into
fencing-in!

Again, you wrote >I’m not advocating that junkies are made social
scapegoats, that they
are victimized, but that they’re pushed to look a little deeper, to go
for
awareness, I think that’s fine. In fact I think it’s great and
a sign of
rising world awareness.<

This is to me terrible. Until a junky asks for help in stopping
their use, I
would hope you would leave them alone (unless they’re breaking
into your
home or robbing you in some other fashion- then by all means,
take action
and start fencing) and to think that you think it fine to
force others to
curtail their freedoms until they begin to see life more like you
competely
shocks me and saddens me.

What about just being a general fucking drag, junkie or
otherwise? I mean,
don’t you agree it would be great to have some social laws for
people who
don’t want to participate in life? OK, it could be abused and
Who make the
Rules Up and all that, but really I think some people should just be
dragged
out of their homes and made to take part.

That’s where I am. I’m pro-ibogaine and anti-heroin. I’m
pro-awareness and
anti-numbing out. That’s my position, and I am happy if you want
to try and
shift me from it.<

Bully for you Nick, but why would I want to shift you from it,
unless you
try to fence me in somehow to force me to see the world from your
viewpoint?
Then I’ll not only shift you, I’ll probably fight you tooth
and nail with
all my heart.

To me, when the Bwiti say “Break open the Head” what they
mean is – the
stranglehold of your personal perspective on the world is broken. You
have
the choice to let other people in. You have the choice to let
healing in.
You no longer have the sole option of choosing “I do this, not
that. I hang
out with these guys and not these. THIS is who I am, and not this.” <

Fencing in others to force them to take personal inventory and
“go a little
deeper” is NOT a choice at all nor healing in the slightest,
at least not
for me. It’s too much like Drug Court and mandatory treatment
plans. Ick as
hell.

Hate to say it, but for me, I get something from both opiates and from
ibogaine, or I did get something from the couple times taking
ibogaine and
still get something (beneficial I mean- I’m not talking about the
“ah shit,
I’m running low” stuff) from opiates.
Any fundamentalism drives me a bit loopy and leaves me feeling
encroached
upon. To be so absolute (i.e. ibogaine good/heroin bad,
pro-ibogaine/anti-heroin) just seems too, oh, I don’t know, not
me? To me it
simply sounds like you are placing yourself on a nice big
white horse and
looking down from your self-described position of enlightened
enlightenment
and saying how much better you are than those who still want to
use opiates
for whatever reason. That’s the message I’m gradually getting
from you Nick,
and I must say I’m a bit surprised to read from anyone on a
list dealing
with ibogaine that they’re into the idea of forcing people
into fenced in
enclosures because they use the wrong drugs.

Well, fencing-in stuff I talked about above. I mean ibogaine IS
fencing-in,
basic principle of liberating consciousness – enclose it. Let
it start to
see what it really is, reflected back on itself. And I’m not
enlightened,
I
don’t even know what it means. I live in a community I love and
I work and
I
have fun. I like communal living, I like it that we lay our trip on the
world a bit here. Yeah, celebrate existence.

with love

Nick

Damn, that’s scary, as I’ve
already noted- remind me not to vote for you, ever. I am being quite
pointedly blunt here, but I’m not actually feeling hostile in
your directon
Nick, but rather, I’m very strongly disagreeing with you and
attempting to
explain why I find your expressed viewpoint here so damned scary
and to me,
well, wrong.
;-))
But that said, no matter how much I disagree, so long as you
don’t ever have
any power over me, I won’t ever want to “shift you away” or
stop you from
expressing it, no matter how much I stongly disagree with you,
nor would I
want to limit your freedoms even a little bit, even to force
you to look
deeper. I’d love to read from you, “oh, you know what, yer
right Preston,
what was I thinking,” but don’t expect to see that, and don’t
particularly
care if I do or not- so long, again, as you never ever have
enough power to
force me to do anything.
The whole notion that it’s ok to force others into life situations
because someone else thinks they know best if sickening, scary
and facist so
far as I define fascism.

It’s just that I used a lot of ibogaine a few years ago, and it
showed me
my path to change, and now it would be frustrating for me to
interract with
people but not communicate to them what I know.<

As the title to one of Disinfo’s books puts it, “Everything
you ‘KNOW’ is
Wrong.”
Nuther ;-))

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for
enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

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Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.302 / Virus Database: 265.6.5 – Release Date: 12/26/2004


Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.302 / Virus Database: 265.6.5 – Release Date: 12/26/2004

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From: “Kirsty Sutherland” <captkirk@kol.co.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] I’m going to stick my dick in the mashed potetoes
Date: January 26, 2005 at 5:39:22 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I guess I have met a few “drug users” who are dull and a drag, but I’ve also
met some “drug users” who are creative as all hell (whereas BEFORE they used
drugs, they were a Joe Schmo, going along with the 9 to 5’ers, social
climbers oh yehhhhhh) (punk song from 80’s)  they’re working on what THEY
want to do, they create music, art all of which is stunning and amazing…
they’re brilliant to talk to…. I mean look at wassis name… William
Burroughs?? Would you call him a drag???? I don’t think so!!!  So drug users
are ALL so dull…….. but some are! But then again, some non drug users
are a drag…… geeee I’m so confused now!@!!!!
Over to you……………………….NICK!!!!! :o)
Luff heapz
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: Nick Sandberg [mailto:nick227@tiscali.co.uk]
Sent: Thursday, 27 January 2005 9:08 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] I’m going to stick my dick in the mashed potetoes

—–Original Message—–
From: knowone knowwhere [mailto:kn0m0n3@yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: 26 January 2005 17:51
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] I’m going to stick my dick in the mashed potetoes

Some Ibo Vids:
http://www.pot-tv.net/archive/archive.cgi?q=ibogaine

“stick mY dick in tha mashed potatoes” sound comes
from ISBN: 724382859925 Trk 3
Fair Use Contact?
Try http://capitalrecords.com/contact.htm
to see, I dunno.
I figure they got it from someone else so Why Not?

Nick,  I think the term “fencing in” comes across a
little threatening and sounds like coming from a
source that doesn’t take it’s own perspective with a
grain of salt.  (Umm..I do that too if you can’t
already tell)

Well, it doesn’t threaten me personally. How you see it is up to you, for
sure.

I couldn’t agree with “Hi Feds”Preston more re: it’s
not as simple as heroin bad/ibogaine good, because,
well, it’s just not.

OK, thank you for pointing that out.

Some almost conclusions I have reached through My
Limited experience is Prohibition  of “drugs” (Ibo AND
Heroin too) caused/causes MUCH more damage then the
“drugs” themselves could ever cause.  Way More.  All
the way down to
Invoking Shame
Because they have some sort of self percieved moral
authority to invoke it.

In case you haven’t noticed, Junkies don’t like being
told what to do, just like non junkies.

Yes, but they rarely, in my experience, have the guts to really put their
negativity out. Not necessarily through any innate personality disfunction,
but because using heroin blocks expression. Because you use h you’re too
numbed out to express your authority trips and thus they stay forever, and
that makes for a seriously DULL planet. That’s why I advocate dragging this
stuff out into the light of day, kicking and screaming if necessary. If you
really put out an authority trip you can see how, underneath it, you’re just
keeping yourself small and safe, then you can move beyond this position and
expand. Whilst you’re too gauched out to even express a feeling properly
nothing can move and you become, imo, one serious fucking drag.

I like people to give me my options then let me
decide.

How am I not supposed to see this as scarry?:

“a fencing-in tool”

“I think some people should just be
dragged
out of their homes and made to take part.”

I couldn’t disagree more with what is written here:
“I mean ibogaine IS
fencing-in,
basic principle of liberating consciousness – enclose
it.”

HOw can you use fencing-in and liberating
consciousness together like that, dat dunt muk scaunse
2 me mohn.
You mention treatment centers that do this, well ok.
If they were that sucessful at it we wouldn’t be here
talking about Ibogaine.

Study the process of initiation, man. It’s all the same principle –
containment. Really, study it. You’ll see the same pattern everywhere. It’s
“fixation” in alchemy, crucifixion in Christianity, iboga in Bwiti – and
it’s all the same process. Mutability, Fixation, Cardinality (Godliness).
Maybe if you do enough smack you can miss it in this lifetime but, rest
assured, we’ll get you in the next (if you get one)! It’s Huis Clos, no way
out! Really! We’ll sucker you in with some nice spacey chit-chat about
ibogaine being a psychoactive, then when the exit is blocked, Wham! Now
you’re gonna look at who you are, like it or not!

People aren’t bad people just because they eat
chocolate,  Same with Opiate users (moderate or
heavy).
I have been “clean” <– see even that term is loaded
with SHame, to imply that if not meeting some
determined (by who) formula that I am somehow
“unclean”, can we say bRa1NwA$h1nG?

Look, I’m not laying SHame on you. You’re doing that to yourself.

Anyways without Methadone or opiates for going on 2
years now.  I am Cynical as FUck, always have been.  I
don’t think that just because I choose not to, that
everybody in the world has to stop too, again, not
taking own perspective with a grain of salt.
I don’t think hugging/saying fuck off, fuzzy
feelings/resentful feeling, some oneiric Christ
experience, overanalysing or underanaylsing is NOT
required, each has different goals when taking ibo.

If I could be arrested and given my prescribed
medication I wouldn’t think twice about getting on and
staying on for life, but that ain’t how it is, so I
don’t.

Nick, I don’t really have a problem with what you
are saying, I just think their may be a more workable
way to communicate what you are trying to get across,
that’s all.

But I’m actually not trying to get anything across.

with love

Nick

“I like it when I can see the whole person,”
You have to have trust first.  Making LOve and
Fucking are not the same thing.  If you want to see
the whole person…use the terms “ego” and “fencing
in” More More More, or not.

Ok enough of dat.

<tucking sheets ‘n bed>

May I hear the Blue Pearl Story Please?

[* *]
(_)
Sp^ce k0k0

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From: “Kirsty Sutherland” <captkirk@kol.co.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism:Nick
Date: January 26, 2005 at 5:32:47 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Well, if I got out there and told “The World” all my dirty little secrets, they’d probly LOCK ME UP!!!!!!!!
(Please, don’t take this seriously, I am just JOKING!!! Lol)
From: Nick Sandberg [mailto:nick227@tiscali.co.uk] 
Sent: Thursday, 27 January 2005 7:46 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism:Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: thethird@myway.com [mailto:thethird@myway.com]
Sent: 26 January 2005 17:11
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism:Nick

Hey Nick, I read a post where you wrote:

>>What about just being a general fucking drag, junkie or otherwise? I mean,
>>don’t you agree it would be great to have some social laws for people who
>>don’t want to participate in life? OK, it could be abused and Who make the
>>Rules Up and all that, but really I think some people should just be dragged
>>out of their homes and made to take part.

Are you serious that you think people should be forced out of their homes and then forced into doing things that other people feel they should do.
Yes! Where do you live?!
That sounds pretty serious. What if we only get one life and here is some jerk telling us what he thinks we should do to really get the most of it. I have to say that one of my pet peeves is nosy people who feel that they know what is best for everyone else. Being a drug addict it becomes pretty obvious that there is no shortage of people who get off hearing all the gritty details of your life a nd can’t wait to feel that spiritual better than thouness when they take you by the hand and guide you through all that nastiness and bring you into the light. I have complete respect for people who spend time helping other people, but I think it is important that they don’t try to force people into that help, because it won’t work unless that person wants to be helped.
You don’t want people poking their noses into your private little thought processes! Why not? What are you hiding?
Also when you said you are anti-heroin, I would like to ask you why. Because it is so addictive and you think it ruins people’s lives?
No, because I’m pro-awareness. Heroin’s a painkiller, an analgesic. It numbs you out and blocks awareness, blocks development.
Everything we take acts like a drug in our brains, from the food we eat to the air we breathe. Oxygen is probably the most addictive thing out there, but nobody thinks about trying to kick oxygen because our quality of life would be pretty shitty without it,
This is true
and I truly believe that for some people, because of a chemical imbalance, pain reasons,  lack of awareness, chronic immaturity, laziness (just to give both sides) or whatever, that their quality of life with opiates is higher than without it. All in all it should be up to the individual, as long as they are not hurting any one else, to decide how they want to live their life.
Well, I don’t agree.  I think dragging people out of their homes is a far better option. Really, I mean it. Drag all those seedy little secrets that you don’t want to reveal to the world out into daylight and get to recognize who you really are. Why not? Confront your fears! Show yourself! Give it!
I’ve done a lot of things in my life that some people would have loved to have the control to stop me, but I am thankful that they couldn’t because I got a lot from those things, more understanding about myself and what I wanted this life to be about. If you can’t be in someone else’s head you can’t know what they want or need, so don’t you think it would be better to let people come to their own conclusions,
I’m sorry, but this just isn’t my experience. A lot of people don’t seem to have a clue what they actually need. They’re stuck in repetitive patterns in life, trying to maintain face and hold down feelings, desperate to cling to anything that doesn’t theaten their image of themselves, few more so than addicts. They just go round and round, and if they come past me I try to encourage them to look deeper  in whatever way I can. I’m learning.
and then, if you like to help people, wait until they decide what they want to change, and then help them, as opposed to forcing what you think is best for them upon them? You always seem so positive and up-beat that I think you are probably great at helping people, but from some of your posts I got the feeling that you could be a little forceful (the whole dragging people out of their homes thing). Of course it’s hard to know what people are like from a few emails.
I like people. I learn from people. And if someone is coming into my vicinity who I think could benefit from useful feedback, then I give it. My energy is pro-active, that’s how I am. About knowing how people are, for sure it’s hard from emails. Emails are a bit limited generally but, still, something can happen!
love
Nick

Laura
No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding.
Make My Way your home on the Web – http://www.myway.com

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From: “Kirsty Sutherland” <captkirk@kol.co.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] I’m going to stick my dick in the mashed potetoes
Date: January 26, 2005 at 5:30:18 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

lol@you, I love the way you put things…..:o)
Excellent rasta imitation BTW….. I could feeeeeeeeeeeeell  the Jah Rasta
Mon!!!!!!!
KOIKY

—–Original Message—–
From: knowone knowwhere [mailto:kn0m0n3@yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: Thursday, 27 January 2005 6:51 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] I’m going to stick my dick in the mashed potetoes

Some Ibo Vids:
http://www.pot-tv.net/archive/archive.cgi?q=ibogaine

“stick mY dick in tha mashed potatoes” sound comes
from ISBN: 724382859925 Trk 3
Fair Use Contact?
Try http://capitalrecords.com/contact.htm
to see, I dunno.
I figure they got it from someone else so Why Not?

Nick,  I think the term “fencing in” comes across a
little threatening and sounds like coming from a
source that doesn’t take it’s own perspective with a
grain of salt.  (Umm..I do that too if you can’t
already tell)

I couldn’t agree with “Hi Feds”Preston more re: it’s
not as simple as heroin bad/ibogaine good, because,
well, it’s just not.

Some almost conclusions I have reached through My
Limited experience is Prohibition  of “drugs” (Ibo AND
Heroin too) caused/causes MUCH more damage then the
“drugs” themselves could ever cause.  Way More.  All
the way down to
Invoking Shame
Because they have some sort of self percieved moral
authority to invoke it.

In case you haven’t noticed, Junkies don’t like being
told what to do, just like non junkies.

I like people to give me my options then let me
decide.

How am I not supposed to see this as scarry?:

“a fencing-in tool”

“I think some people should just be
dragged
out of their homes and made to take part.”

I couldn’t disagree more with what is written here:
“I mean ibogaine IS
fencing-in,
basic principle of liberating consciousness – enclose
it.”

HOw can you use fencing-in and liberating
consciousness together like that, dat dunt muk scaunse
2 me mohn.
You mention treatment centers that do this, well ok.
If they were that sucessful at it we wouldn’t be here
talking about Ibogaine.

People aren’t bad people just because they eat
chocolate,  Same with Opiate users (moderate or
heavy).
I have been “clean” <– see even that term is loaded
with SHame, to imply that if not meeting some
determined (by who) formula that I am somehow
“unclean”, can we say bRa1NwA$h1nG?
Anyways without Methadone or opiates for going on 2
years now.  I am Cynical as FUck, always have been.  I
don’t think that just because I choose not to, that
everybody in the world has to stop too, again, not
taking own perspective with a grain of salt.
I don’t think hugging/saying fuck off, fuzzy
feelings/resentful feeling, some oneiric Christ
experience, overanalysing or underanaylsing is NOT
required, each has different goals when taking ibo.

If I could be arrested and given my prescribed
medication I wouldn’t think twice about getting on and
staying on for life, but that ain’t how it is, so I
don’t.

Nick, I don’t really have a problem with what you
are saying, I just think their may be a more workable
way to communicate what you are trying to get across,
that’s all.

“I like it when I can see the whole person,”
You have to have trust first.  Making LOve and
Fucking are not the same thing.  If you want to see
the whole person…use the terms “ego” and “fencing
in” More More More, or not.

Ok enough of dat.

<tucking sheets ‘n bed>

May I hear the Blue Pearl Story Please?

[* *]
(_)
Sp^ce k0k0

___________________________________________________________
ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!
http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

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From: “Kirsty Sutherland” <captkirk@kol.co.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] 5-HTP
Date: January 26, 2005 at 5:23:58 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thank you for that…..and it would be nice for you if you could find out about taking both…perhaps ask the doc?  We have different names for drugs over here, so I have no idea what people are talking about unless I do a websearch!  Prozac is about the only commonly named drug.  I take something called Aropax, which isn’t as full on as prozac and I’ve had no side effects apart from sleep and appetite (but hey, coffee and cigs get me thru the day! Lol)
Will look into this 5 htp….
Kirk
From: thethird@myway.com [mailto:thethird@myway.com] 
Sent: Thursday, 27 January 2005 5:21 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] 5-HTP

Hey Kirsty,
I take 100 mgs of 5htp in the morning and I have noticed a difference in the levels of my anxiety and depression. But, if I try and remember back to when I was on zoloft I would say that zoloft made more of a difference. In fact, because I get such bad panic attacks during school I am thinking about going back on something like zoloft, at least until I get settled back into the routine of being in class. I’m thinking about decreasing the 5htp, but am a little nervous about it, but I assume that I have to stop taking it if I go back on zoloft. There was an interesting book out awhile ago about 5htp and it explained how much to take for certain problems, but I can’t remember the name of it. I will try looking for it, and I can look something up in it if there is any info that you’d like to know. 





— On Tue 01/25, Kirsty Sutherland < captkirk@kol.co.nz > wrote:
From: Kirsty Sutherland [mailto: captkirk@kol.co.nz]
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 14:57:38 +1300
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] 5-HTP

Thank you muchly…will look into it (for depression at the mo…)
:o)
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: Ms Iboga [mailto:ms_iboga@yahoo.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, 26 January 2005 7:04 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] 5-HTP

hi Kirk,

Here is a link to a short, concise description of
5HTP:
http://www.biopsychiatry.com/5-htp.htm

5-HTP is the chemical precursor to serotonin. I took
one capsule about 24 hours after my treatment, and
could swear I felt some of the Ibogaine’s effects come
back.

Julie



__________________________________ 
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Read only the mail you want – Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. 
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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism
Date: January 26, 2005 at 5:12:09 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“So if our use of this and other substances was so wrong, how in the heck
did we manage to evolve so far along then?”

Magic.Imagine.

Did our creator made a mistake creating us with the abilities to find drugs
and get addicted to them?

Why God said in the Holy Book that “it was all good” if it isn’t.
Is there someone scamming us? So maybe they were aliens who created us by
mistake? It is all a big mistake, God shouldn’t have created drugs or Humans

And then he could say “it is all good”. But then who am I to tell God what
to do or not to do, Hey, and if we are all part of the same one
Then who is who with the right to tell God Her/his/us what is the mistake
And how to correct it, Let’s go back to paradise and we never have to get
high again.

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Verzonden: woensdag 26 januari 2005 22:56
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism

As the overall level of consciousness on the planet starts
to rise and stabilize so heroin is going to become about the least hip thing
imaginable.<

So the prohibitionists are acting as agents of a higher world conciousness.
Good to know that.
Granted heroin hasn’t been around all that long, but still, opium has and if

one does enough of it the effects are remarkably similar to heroin. Were
those who used it for the thousands upon thousands of years for so many
different reasons wrong after all? So if our use of this and other
substances was so wrong, how in the heck did we manage to evolve so far
along then?

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Mysterious Roots- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,

Explorations and Enigmas” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 3:55 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: 26 January 2005 20:19
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism

Nick asked >What about just being a general fucking drag, junkie or
otherwise? I mean,
don’t you agree it would be great to have some social laws for people who
don’t want to participate in life? OK, it could be abused and Who make
the
Rules Up and all that, but really I think some people should just
be dragged
out of their homes and made to take part.
<

What?!
Um, I would prefer not to hang out with a general fucking drag,
but who am I
to take that to the next level. For crying out loud, I find most drunks
total freakin’ drags Nick, but I don’t wanna lock ’em up and make
them face
whatever. I certain do not agree that it would be great to have
some social
laws for people who don’t want to participate in life, I personally find
that horrifying and completely batty.
Again, no offense, but wow, that’s pretty extreme. I’m actually
completely
the opposite, feeling quite the Libertarian when it comes to this sort of
thing.
And I’m sure there are plenty of people who would like to
drag you out
of your home and lock you away for daring even talk about, much less use
such a dangerous and criminal mistake of the lord as ibogaine. (I use
imagined prohibitionist terminology, not my own here.) They’ve already
written some nifty social laws I suppose we could emulate- force everyone
out of their homes, to take ibogaine and face their stuff. Egad,
that’s so
damned not right and downright un-American (again, I jest ’cause
it’s just
too damned America really) what you are saying here. I’m amazed. I think
I’ve not been paying attention to what certain people have been
posting on
this here list.

I mean ibogaine IS fencing-in,
basic principle of liberating consciousness – enclose it. Let it start to
see what it really is, reflected back on itself.<

I gotta just say Nick that while I enjoyed ibogaine and
definitely plan on
going through it at least another time (maybe a lot of other time- won’t
committ to that yet, instead taking it one trip at a time), I didn’t need
ibogaine or any other drug to liberate my consciousness- my “liberated
conciousness” was what lead me to try drugs in the first place,
at least so
I believe. I use various drugs to various reasons, and ibogaine
is one more
drug to use for one more (or more than one, I will definitely
grant it that)
reason too.

I live in a community I love and I work and I
have fun. I like communal living, I like it that we lay our trip on the
world a bit here. Yeah, celebrate existence.<

Funny, so do I, and yeah, I tend to think I celebrate existence
to the very
best of my ability, so I’m not sure what your point is.
But I’m still having trouble with the whole “let’s drag [some? So who
decides who is a drag and who is not Nick, and what constitutes
drag? Would
drag be defined universally or would we take into consideration cultural
mores and habits? Woudl certain clothing styles or musical tastes be
included in this? Or religious or political viewpoints?

Hi Preston,

I mean the thing about dragging people out into the streets will probably
take another couple of decades to become really viable, the way I see it.
But it’ll come for sure if people don’t respond in other ways and show
themselves more. As the overall level of consciousness on the planet
starts
to rise and stabilize so heroin is going to become about the least hip
thing
imaginable. In any rising awareness situation this is something of an
inevitability for analgesics are basically anti-awareness.

I mean, you CAN fight for your rights as junkies, but the problem with
that
is that if you really put your position out fully you’re inevitably going
to
find it transmuted, your awareness will rise through the very action of
really fighting for something, full on with all your energy. Basically,
heroin can’t win, for it relies on the user never going totally into a
feeling to maintain its hold on the body. When society starts to move
towards pushing users more out into the open then a lot of change will
occur
spontaneously for the very action of fully resisting that change actually
catalyses it even more strongly.

love

Nick

It appear
exactly so
from what I’m reading into your words. Sheeze, this is so messed
up, really,
I’m having trouble even wrapping my head around the idea that you might
really be serious) people out of their homes and force them” to
do anything.
I think I’d be very unhappy to see you arrive at my door with
that attitude.
It would lead to very, very unpleasentry and lots of non-huggy and
ingrateness for sure.

I wish sometimes I was more of a cretin so I could curse and fume and not
feel stupid for doing so, because occasionally I’m hit with a brick like
this email from out of nowhere and I really want to express my
amazement in
more gutteral, street lingo, but there are ladies present and all that,
so….

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Mysterious Roots- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
Civilizations,
Explorations and Enigmas” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 10:52 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: 26 January 2005 14:27
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism

Freedom of speech and action is one thing, but if
you have to keep stuffing the world’s most powerful painkiller into
you
day-in-day-out simply to maintain your perspective on the world, then
I
think it’s fine the world pushes you to look deeper. I think
it’s totally
fine. I’m not advocating that junkies are made social scapegoats,
that they
are victimized, but that they’re pushed to look a little deeper, to go
for
awareness, I think that’s fine. In fact I think it’s great and
a sign of
rising world awareness. We are One, and at some point we all have to
start
living that.<

Nick, that’s a little scary to me actually, the idea that someone
might have
enough power to not only feel that they could point me in the
direction they
feel I should be going in my life, but can fence me in to
force me to do
so…oh, wait, that’s already happening with the whole stinkin’
war on some
drugs and user to begin with, nothing new there.
I am a bit taken aback to read the notion from someone as
loving or at
least caring as you come across being.

Hi Preston,

Well, for me, I like to be able to feel someone, you know. Feel who
they
are, connect with them. I’m not so interested in being
presented with the
drug-edited version of who they are that they want to show the
world. For
sure, we all hide ourselves, drug-users or otherwise, but it’s a drag.
I
like it when I can see the whole person, including all the crazy or bad
shit
they think they have to hide away. Druggies are no different
from anybody
else in this.

And I think a bit of fencing-in is fine. The whole “therapeutic
community”
concept, from Synanon to Phoenix House to Humaniversity, I think it’s
great.
When you’re surrounded by others 24 hours a day, reflecting
your behaviour
back at you, you get to find out who you are pretty quickly –
what you’ll
back down about, what you’ll take a stand about, what you care
about, and
what you’ll let go. The core of Christianity was the same – the whole
crucifixion thing is a metaphor, it means you stay in once place and
you
face your shit, they called it the Fixed Cross in astrology – a few
zillion
incarnations on the Mutable cross, then you’re initiated on the Fixed
cross
and have to look, then, when freed from delusion you get to hang out on
the
Cardinal cross. It’s the same principle throughout mythology and
symbolism –
JC on his cross, Odin on his tree, whatever. Bwiti the same, iboga
initiation means you’re incapacitated on the drug and you have
to look at
yourself. That’s what it’s all about psychologically. I mean,
you can come
towards ibogaine from the whole pain-management and neurochemical
perspective and that’s totally fine. But make no mistake, when you
start
dealing with larger doses you’re dealing with a fencing-in tool par
excellence. This is a strange place to hang out if you’re not into
fencing-in!

Again, you wrote >I’m not advocating that junkies are made social
scapegoats, that they
are victimized, but that they’re pushed to look a little deeper, to go
for
awareness, I think that’s fine. In fact I think it’s great and
a sign of
rising world awareness.<

This is to me terrible. Until a junky asks for help in stopping
their use, I
would hope you would leave them alone (unless they’re breaking
into your
home or robbing you in some other fashion- then by all means,
take action
and start fencing) and to think that you think it fine to
force others to
curtail their freedoms until they begin to see life more like you
competely
shocks me and saddens me.

What about just being a general fucking drag, junkie or
otherwise? I mean,
don’t you agree it would be great to have some social laws for
people who
don’t want to participate in life? OK, it could be abused and
Who make the
Rules Up and all that, but really I think some people should just be
dragged
out of their homes and made to take part.

That’s where I am. I’m pro-ibogaine and anti-heroin. I’m
pro-awareness and
anti-numbing out. That’s my position, and I am happy if you want
to try and
shift me from it.<

Bully for you Nick, but why would I want to shift you from it,
unless you
try to fence me in somehow to force me to see the world from your
viewpoint?
Then I’ll not only shift you, I’ll probably fight you tooth
and nail with
all my heart.

To me, when the Bwiti say “Break open the Head” what they
mean is – the
stranglehold of your personal perspective on the world is broken. You
have
the choice to let other people in. You have the choice to let
healing in.
You no longer have the sole option of choosing “I do this, not
that. I hang
out with these guys and not these. THIS is who I am, and not this.” <

Fencing in others to force them to take personal inventory and
“go a little
deeper” is NOT a choice at all nor healing in the slightest,
at least not
for me. It’s too much like Drug Court and mandatory treatment
plans. Ick as
hell.

Hate to say it, but for me, I get something from both opiates and from
ibogaine, or I did get something from the couple times taking
ibogaine and
still get something (beneficial I mean- I’m not talking about the
“ah shit,
I’m running low” stuff) from opiates.
Any fundamentalism drives me a bit loopy and leaves me feeling
encroached
upon. To be so absolute (i.e. ibogaine good/heroin bad,
pro-ibogaine/anti-heroin) just seems too, oh, I don’t know, not
me? To me it
simply sounds like you are placing yourself on a nice big
white horse and
looking down from your self-described position of enlightened
enlightenment
and saying how much better you are than those who still want to
use opiates
for whatever reason. That’s the message I’m gradually getting
from you Nick,
and I must say I’m a bit surprised to read from anyone on a
list dealing
with ibogaine that they’re into the idea of forcing people
into fenced in
enclosures because they use the wrong drugs.

Well, fencing-in stuff I talked about above. I mean ibogaine IS
fencing-in,
basic principle of liberating consciousness – enclose it. Let
it start to
see what it really is, reflected back on itself. And I’m not
enlightened,
I
don’t even know what it means. I live in a community I love and
I work and
I
have fun. I like communal living, I like it that we lay our trip on the
world a bit here. Yeah, celebrate existence.

with love

Nick

Damn, that’s scary, as I’ve
already noted- remind me not to vote for you, ever. I am being quite
pointedly blunt here, but I’m not actually feeling hostile in
your directon
Nick, but rather, I’m very strongly disagreeing with you and
attempting to
explain why I find your expressed viewpoint here so damned scary
and to me,
well, wrong.
;-))
But that said, no matter how much I disagree, so long as you
don’t ever have
any power over me, I won’t ever want to “shift you away” or
stop you from
expressing it, no matter how much I stongly disagree with you,
nor would I
want to limit your freedoms even a little bit, even to force
you to look
deeper. I’d love to read from you, “oh, you know what, yer
right Preston,
what was I thinking,” but don’t expect to see that, and don’t
particularly
care if I do or not- so long, again, as you never ever have
enough power to
force me to do anything.
The whole notion that it’s ok to force others into life situations
because someone else thinks they know best if sickening, scary
and facist so
far as I define fascism.

It’s just that I used a lot of ibogaine a few years ago, and it
showed me
my path to change, and now it would be frustrating for me to
interract with
people but not communicate to them what I know.<

As the title to one of Disinfo’s books puts it, “Everything
you ‘KNOW’ is
Wrong.”
Nuther ;-))

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for
enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism
Date: January 26, 2005 at 4:56:23 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

As the overall level of consciousness on the planet starts
to rise and stabilize so heroin is going to become about the least hip thing
imaginable.<

So the prohibitionists are acting as agents of a higher world conciousness. Good to know that.
Granted heroin hasn’t been around all that long, but still, opium has and if one does enough of it the effects are remarkably similar to heroin. Were those who used it for the thousands upon thousands of years for so many different reasons wrong after all? So if our use of this and other substances was so wrong, how in the heck did we manage to evolve so far along then?

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Mysterious Roots- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Explorations and Enigmas” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 3:55 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: 26 January 2005 20:19
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism

Nick asked >What about just being a general fucking drag, junkie or
otherwise? I mean,
don’t you agree it would be great to have some social laws for people who
don’t want to participate in life? OK, it could be abused and Who make the
Rules Up and all that, but really I think some people should just
be dragged
out of their homes and made to take part.
<

What?!
Um, I would prefer not to hang out with a general fucking drag,
but who am I
to take that to the next level. For crying out loud, I find most drunks
total freakin’ drags Nick, but I don’t wanna lock ’em up and make
them face
whatever. I certain do not agree that it would be great to have
some social
laws for people who don’t want to participate in life, I personally find
that horrifying and completely batty.
Again, no offense, but wow, that’s pretty extreme. I’m actually
completely
the opposite, feeling quite the Libertarian when it comes to this sort of
thing.
And I’m sure there are plenty of people who would like to
drag you out
of your home and lock you away for daring even talk about, much less use
such a dangerous and criminal mistake of the lord as ibogaine. (I use
imagined prohibitionist terminology, not my own here.) They’ve already
written some nifty social laws I suppose we could emulate- force everyone
out of their homes, to take ibogaine and face their stuff. Egad,
that’s so
damned not right and downright un-American (again, I jest ’cause
it’s just
too damned America really) what you are saying here. I’m amazed. I think
I’ve not been paying attention to what certain people have been
posting on
this here list.

>I mean ibogaine IS fencing-in,
basic principle of liberating consciousness – enclose it. Let it start to
see what it really is, reflected back on itself.<

I gotta just say Nick that while I enjoyed ibogaine and
definitely plan on
going through it at least another time (maybe a lot of other time- won’t
committ to that yet, instead taking it one trip at a time), I didn’t need
ibogaine or any other drug to liberate my consciousness- my “liberated
conciousness” was what lead me to try drugs in the first place,
at least so
I believe. I use various drugs to various reasons, and ibogaine
is one more
drug to use for one more (or more than one, I will definitely
grant it that)
reason too.

>I live in a community I love and I work and I
have fun. I like communal living, I like it that we lay our trip on the
world a bit here. Yeah, celebrate existence.<

Funny, so do I, and yeah, I tend to think I celebrate existence
to the very
best of my ability, so I’m not sure what your point is.
But I’m still having trouble with the whole “let’s drag [some? So who
decides who is a drag and who is not Nick, and what constitutes
drag? Would
drag be defined universally or would we take into consideration cultural
mores and habits? Woudl certain clothing styles or musical tastes be
included in this? Or religious or political viewpoints?

Hi Preston,

I mean the thing about dragging people out into the streets will probably
take another couple of decades to become really viable, the way I see it.
But it’ll come for sure if people don’t respond in other ways and show
themselves more. As the overall level of consciousness on the planet starts
to rise and stabilize so heroin is going to become about the least hip thing
imaginable. In any rising awareness situation this is something of an
inevitability for analgesics are basically anti-awareness.

I mean, you CAN fight for your rights as junkies, but the problem with that
is that if you really put your position out fully you’re inevitably going to
find it transmuted, your awareness will rise through the very action of
really fighting for something, full on with all your energy. Basically,
heroin can’t win, for it relies on the user never going totally into a
feeling to maintain its hold on the body. When society starts to move
towards pushing users more out into the open then a lot of change will occur
spontaneously for the very action of fully resisting that change actually
catalyses it even more strongly.

love

Nick

It appear
exactly so
from what I’m reading into your words. Sheeze, this is so messed
up, really,
I’m having trouble even wrapping my head around the idea that you might
really be serious) people out of their homes and force them” to
do anything.
I think I’d be very unhappy to see you arrive at my door with
that attitude.
It would lead to very, very unpleasentry and lots of non-huggy and
ingrateness for sure.

I wish sometimes I was more of a cretin so I could curse and fume and not
feel stupid for doing so, because occasionally I’m hit with a brick like
this email from out of nowhere and I really want to express my
amazement in
more gutteral, street lingo, but there are ladies present and all that,
so….

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Mysterious Roots- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
Civilizations,
Explorations and Enigmas” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 10:52 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism

>
>
>> —–Original Message—–
>> From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
>> Sent: 26 January 2005 14:27
>> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism
>>
>>
>> >Freedom of speech and action is one thing, but if
>> you have to keep stuffing the world’s most powerful painkiller into >> you
>> day-in-day-out simply to maintain your perspective on the world, then >> I
>> think it’s fine the world pushes you to look deeper. I think
it’s totally
>> fine. I’m not advocating that junkies are made social scapegoats,
>> that they
>> are victimized, but that they’re pushed to look a little deeper, to go
>> for
>> awareness, I think that’s fine. In fact I think it’s great and
a sign of
>> rising world awareness. We are One, and at some point we all have to
>> start
>> living that.<
>>
>> Nick, that’s a little scary to me actually, the idea that someone
>> might have
>> enough power to not only feel that they could point me in the
>> direction they
>> feel I should be going in my life, but can fence me in to
force me to do
>> so…oh, wait, that’s already happening with the whole stinkin’
>> war on some
>> drugs and user to begin with, nothing new there.
>>     I am a bit taken aback to read the notion from someone as
>> loving or at
>> least caring as you come across being.
>>
>
> Hi Preston,
>
> Well, for me, I like to be able to feel someone, you know. Feel who > they
> are, connect with them. I’m not so interested in being
presented with the
> drug-edited version of who they are that they want to show the
world. For
> sure, we all hide ourselves, drug-users or otherwise, but it’s a drag. > I
> like it when I can see the whole person, including all the crazy or bad
> shit
> they think they have to hide away. Druggies are no different
from anybody
> else in this.
>
> And I think a bit of fencing-in is fine. The whole “therapeutic
community”
> concept, from Synanon to Phoenix House to Humaniversity, I think it’s
> great.
> When you’re surrounded by others 24 hours a day, reflecting
your behaviour
> back at you, you get to find out who you are pretty quickly –
what you’ll
> back down about, what you’ll take a stand about, what you care
about, and
> what you’ll let go. The core of Christianity was the same – the whole
> crucifixion thing is a metaphor, it means you stay in once place and > you
> face your shit, they called it the Fixed Cross in astrology – a few
> zillion
> incarnations on the Mutable cross, then you’re initiated on the Fixed
> cross
> and have to look, then, when freed from delusion you get to hang out on
> the
> Cardinal cross. It’s the same principle throughout mythology and
> symbolism –
> JC on his cross, Odin on his tree, whatever. Bwiti the same, iboga
> initiation means you’re incapacitated on the drug and you have
to look at
> yourself. That’s what it’s all about psychologically. I mean,
you can come
> towards ibogaine from the whole pain-management and neurochemical
> perspective and that’s totally fine. But make no mistake, when you > start
> dealing with larger doses you’re dealing with a fencing-in tool par
> excellence. This is a strange place to hang out if you’re not into
> fencing-in!
>
>> Again, you wrote >I’m not advocating that junkies are made social
>> scapegoats, that they
>> are victimized, but that they’re pushed to look a little deeper, to go
>> for
>> awareness, I think that’s fine. In fact I think it’s great and
a sign of
>> rising world awareness.<
>>
>> This is to me terrible. Until a junky asks for help in stopping
>> their use, I
>> would hope you would leave them alone (unless they’re breaking
into your
>> home or robbing you in some other fashion- then by all means,
take action
>> and start fencing) and to think that you think it fine to
force others to
>> curtail their freedoms until they begin to see life more like you
>> competely
>> shocks me and saddens me.
>
> What about just being a general fucking drag, junkie or
otherwise? I mean,
> don’t you agree it would be great to have some social laws for
people who
> don’t want to participate in life? OK, it could be abused and
Who make the
> Rules Up and all that, but really I think some people should just be
> dragged
> out of their homes and made to take part.
>
>>
>> >That’s where I am. I’m pro-ibogaine and anti-heroin. I’m
>> pro-awareness and
>> anti-numbing out. That’s my position, and I am happy if you want
>> to try and
>> shift me from it.<
>>
>> Bully for you Nick, but why would I want to shift you from it,
unless you
>> try to fence me in somehow to force me to see the world from your
>> viewpoint?
>> Then I’ll not only shift you, I’ll probably fight you tooth
and nail with
>> all my heart.
>>
>> >To me, when the Bwiti say “Break open the Head” what they
mean is – the
>> stranglehold of your personal perspective on the world is broken. You
>> have
>> the choice to let other people in. You have the choice to let
healing in.
>> You no longer have the sole option of choosing “I do this, not
>> that. I hang
>> out with these guys and not these. THIS is who I am, and not this.” <
>>
>> Fencing in others to force them to take personal inventory and
>> “go a little
>> deeper” is NOT a choice at all nor healing in the slightest,
at least not
>> for me. It’s too much like Drug Court and mandatory treatment
>> plans. Ick as
>> hell.
>>
>> Hate to say it, but for me, I get something from both opiates and from
>> ibogaine, or I did get something from the couple times taking
>> ibogaine and
>> still get something (beneficial I mean- I’m not talking about the
>> “ah shit,
>> I’m running low” stuff) from opiates.
>> Any fundamentalism drives me a bit loopy and leaves me feeling
encroached
>> upon. To be so absolute (i.e. ibogaine good/heroin bad,
>> pro-ibogaine/anti-heroin) just seems too, oh, I don’t know, not
>> me? To me it
>> simply sounds like you are placing yourself on a nice big
white horse and
>> looking down from your self-described position of enlightened
>> enlightenment
>> and saying how much better you are than those who still want to
>> use opiates
>> for whatever reason. That’s the message I’m gradually getting
>> from you Nick,
>> and I must say I’m a bit surprised to read from anyone on a
list dealing
>> with ibogaine that they’re into the idea of forcing people
into fenced in
>> enclosures because they use the wrong drugs.
>
> Well, fencing-in stuff I talked about above. I mean ibogaine IS
> fenci