Ibogaine List Archives – 2002-08

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Rough ritual with datura
Date: August 31, 2002 at 7:10:47 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

and I thought ibogaine was rough.

http://leda.lycaeum.org/Documents/The_Genus_Datura:_From_Research_Subject_to_Powerful_Hallucinogen.16212.shtml

snip

“Beverly in his History of Virginia (1705) described
the rite of huskanawing. The rite was practiced by
Algonquins every fourteen or sixteen years and
involved taking the “choicest and briskest” young men
of the society into the woods and ritually
administering an intoxicating medicine (wysoccan),
containing Datura, to them. The rite was necessary if
the young men hoped to become great men or officers
within their society. Kept in cages or enclosures for
several months, the local medicine men carefully fed
the boys only wysoccan, causing them to become “stark,
raving mad” for a period of eighteen or twenty days so
as to “perfectly lose the remembrance of all former
things, even of their parents, their treasure, and
their language.” When sufficient dosages had been
administered, the amount was reduced gradually and the
young men slowly returned to their senses. But before
the potion completely wore off, the boys were brought
back, into their village and carefully observed to see
if any memories of their former life as boys were
discovered. If one did show signs of remembering, the
entire ritual had to be undergone again, this time
greatly endangering the life of the initiate (Safford
1922:558-9).”

I’ll bet that would work for addiction, you wouldn’t
remember you were an addict.

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From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Eyeboneganeboga boga man EvErybODy’sOut do GEt YouMuthafr …
Date: August 31, 2002 at 11:05:37 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— Mzzthangg13@aol.com wrote:
hi, i am still on seroquel,trazadone &
clonodine…..but i’m going to change
my anti depressant…..i do not feel the seroquel is
working I’m still
depressed not as bad but still…….i did something
bad i took klonopin last
night…..i hope i did not fuck everything
up…….i still have those damm
yawns…..but i did my laundry yesterday i was sore
but i lived……..you
think prozac works? u friend karina JM

Karina, lets see, seroquel, trazadone clnodine but
want to change to another, took klonopin last night
(no, you didn’t fuck everything up – so may as well
use, RIGHT???) and now what about some prozac…

Think maybe you are focusing a bit too much attention
on what pill will fix you??? You ain’t broke (as I
said) but know what happens when you try to fix
something that ain’t broke?

One of the things that happens when someone tries to
get clean is they are ALL WACKED OUT, usually this
just passes with time, some people need a little help
(well, some need a lot and you ain’t one of them). All
it does is take some time to heal – healing that is
hinderd by putting more crap in your body.

Easy does it with the meds – this is an OBVIOUS area
you have a big problem with. They are not the
solution, they are the PROBLEM, you don’t need them,
you need not to use them (no, not tomorrow but that is
where you should be reaching for).

NO CANDY…

Brett

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From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Prozac
Date: August 31, 2002 at 11:02:48 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Prozac is an ok anti-depressant, and right now I do feel compelled to say the fewer drugs the better. U’re developing another little cocktail… and I’m not sure of what all the different drugs do to you, or how they help

R u sleeping regulalry yet; at least 6 hrs a night?
Breathing exercises whenever necessary?
Regular food? Good loving and even fun?

Karina, this is just me, but I know that the period of my life that had no drugs (apart from Caffeine) in it was the most stable I’d had since 1970. Those 5 yrs were 1986-91.

Having a time of less chemical mood altering just helped me so much. I got a BSc in that time, started working, began a relationship – I mean what can I say. I also did NA3/week –
Oops, I know a lot of folk don’t like it, but it helped me immensely to get a sense of who the hell I was in this world, and following the steps with someone who cared about me was also helpful

a

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] genetic modification of poppy
Date: August 31, 2002 at 10:56:31 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— Alison Senepart &lt;aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz&gt;
wrote:
&gt; Was still thinking about all that.  What
difference
&gt; would it make if the poppy plant somnerferum
&gt; produced codeine and not Heroin

It does NOT make heroin, no plant &#34;MAKES&#34;
heroin. H is a semi-synthetic opiate that is usually
made from morphine (directly) but can be made from
other opiates such as codeine (which would have to be
made into morphine along the way to making H in a
lab). Codeine and morphine as well as some other
opiate alkaloids are naturally occurring in the opium
poppy,  not heroin. Other poppies have various mixes
of these same opiates. Most medical codeine is
actually made from morphine, not codeine producing
poppies.

.My understanding
&gt; is that its the codeine that breaks down into
&gt; morphine and then the next stage is Heroin.

Some of the codeine is converted to morphine in the
body (about 10% in most people – NOT 70%, some folks
don’t make morphine from codeine due to not having
CYP2D6 – the primary enzyme used in converting
ibogaine into nor-ibogaine) – but is HIGHLY variable
in the individual. It is never converted into heroin
in the body, neither is morphine, however heroin is
converted into morphine in the body and also contains
codeine (not just H) so you can get a + codeine if you
take H as well as  + for morphine in a urine screen.

Also, FYI, someone mentioned some real long half life
for methadone – it is NOT days and days, it is 15-30
hours.

So how
&gt; can you make that work.???  Am I wrong.  Is there
&gt; someone out there who can answer that????

Make what work, there is nothing to make work. Codeine
can be made into H just as morphine can, it just is
more complicated, another step. This &#34;idea&#34;
(to alter the poppy) is just another great idea from
the War on Drugs folks and likely only has to do with
War on Drugs GRANTS!!! It is total BULL SHIT logic,
just as bad (logically) as anyone with cocaine
psychosis. It is a delusion and nothing more.

Brett

&gt; Allison
&gt; As long as it has codeine whats to stop the
&gt; following processes.
&gt;     —–Original Message—–
&gt;     From: Alison Senepart
&lt;aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz&gt;
&gt;     To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
&lt;ibogaine@mindvox.com&gt;
&gt;     Date: Saturday, 31 August 2002 19:36
&gt;     Subject: Re: [ibogaine] genetic modification
of
&gt; poppy
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;     It all still comes down to demand and supply
and
&gt; if the demand is there and not enough supply
there
&gt; is always some way round it.   Years ago in NZ we
&gt; used to get in the car and do runs all over the
&gt; place buying up Panadeine tablets that we could
take
&gt; to a baker and then get half back once processed
&gt; into morphine.  Since then they have changed the
&gt; tablets but it doesn’t change peoples attitudes
or
&gt; determination to do what they want.  There is
always
&gt; a way.  Sort of turns into a who beats who
scenario.
&gt;  The govt or chemists develop new products and
then
&gt; someone finds a way to beat it.   Perhaps thats
&gt; human nature??&#34;??   Allison
&gt;         —–Original Message—–
&gt;         From: preston peet
&lt;ptpeet@nyc.rr.com&gt;
&gt;         To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
&gt; &lt;ibogaine@mindvox.com&gt;
&gt;         Date: Friday, 30 August 2002 22:38
&gt;         Subject: Re: [ibogaine] genetic
modification
&gt; of poppy
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;         I could swear, reading Licit and Illicit
&gt; Drugs at the moment, that all poppies produce
both
&gt; codeine and heroin.
&gt;         I’m also reading that it wasn’t up until
the
&gt; early 70s, perhaps very late 60s, that England
first
&gt; tried the US methods of prohibition, instead of
&gt; simply supplying addicts with dope, which of
course,
&gt; lead to the very same problems the US was facing
for
&gt; decades. IN the beginning, after the Harrison Act
&gt; passed, England took a good, hard look at what
the
&gt; US had done, CREATING THOUSANDS OF ADDICTS with
&gt; their insane prohibition laws, and said, Uh, uh,
no
&gt; way, we don’t want that.&#34; Something happened
though
&gt; in the 60, when Brit papers started taking the
&gt; US-shill line, &#34;oh my gosh, look at that huge
&gt; increase of addicts, (when they really only had
&gt; around 4000 or so legally registered there),
let’s
&gt; CRACK DOWN on those loosers.&#34; Sigh.
&gt;             What a depressing book. Who died and
&gt; left the prohibitionists in charge of the Earth?
&gt;         Peace,
&gt;         Preston
&gt;             —– Original Message —–
&gt;             From: Brett Calabrese
&gt;             To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
&gt;             Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 12:30
AM
&gt;             Subject: Re: [ibogaine] genetic
&gt; modification of poppy
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;             Didn’t anyone tell these folks you
can
&gt; also make
&gt;             heroin out of codeine AND there are
&gt; already flavors of
&gt;             poppy that produce codeine.
&gt;
&gt;             Am I missing something here or is it
&gt; just another
&gt;             &#34;bright idea&#34; from the war on
drugs
&gt; folks? So, what
&gt;             exactly are they trying to
accomplish?
&gt; (that of
&gt;             course won’t work anyway).
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;             Brett
&gt;
&gt;             &gt;
&gt;             &gt; The opium poppy is the deadly
cash
&gt; crop of
&gt;             &gt; Afghanistan, with heroin profits
&gt;             &gt; going to fund terrorist groups.
As
&gt; DAWN WALTON
&gt;             &gt; reports, scientists in
&gt;             &gt; Calgary are attempting to alter
the
&gt; plant to produce
&gt;             &gt; only codeine, to offer
&gt;             &gt; farmers a safe, legal
alternative to
&gt; the opiate
&gt;             &gt; trade
&gt;             &gt;
&gt;             &gt; By DAWN WALTON
&gt;             &gt;
&gt;             &gt; In Afghanistan and Myanmar, the
&gt; world’s two leading
&gt;             &gt; producers of opium
&gt;             &gt; poppies destined for the illicit
&gt; heroin trade,
&gt;             &gt; officials show how seriously
&gt;             &gt; they take the war on drugs by
seizing
&gt; plants and
&gt;             &gt; burning them publicly.
&gt;             &gt;
&gt;             &gt; In Canada, the battle is being
fought
&gt; in the lab.
&gt;             &gt;
&gt;             &gt; Researchers at the University of
&gt; Calgary are trying
&gt;             &gt; to genetically modify
&gt;             &gt; opium poppies, scientifically
known as
&gt; Papaver
&gt;             &gt; somniferum, to make them more
&gt;             &gt; virile in the production of
codeine,
&gt; but at the same
&gt;             &gt; time render them
&gt;             &gt; impotent in the creation of
morphine,
&gt; the key
&gt;             &gt; ingredient in heroin.
&gt;             &gt;
&gt;             &gt; URL:
&gt;             &gt;
&gt; http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v02.n1573.a01.html
&gt;             &gt;
&gt;             &gt; ——————————
&gt;             &gt;
&gt;             &gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
__________________________________________________
&gt;             Do You Yahoo!?
&gt;             Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock
&gt; quotes
&gt;             http://finance.yahoo.com
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;

__________________________________________________
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From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Eyeboneganeboga boga man EvErybODy’sOut do GEt YouMuthafr …
Date: August 31, 2002 at 10:53:59 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I do! I’m a psych major and almost double as many women suffer from depression as do men. I put it down to hormones, and not being trained to putting ones own needs first but there’s bound to be much more…
Anyone?
andria

From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Eyeboneganeboga boga man EvErybODy’sOut do GEt YouMuthafr …
Date: August 31, 2002 at 10:42:36 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hi, i am still on seroquel,trazadone & clonodine…..but i’m going to change my anti depressant…..i do not feel the seroquel is working I’m still depressed not as bad but still…….i did something bad i took klonopin last night…..i hope i did not fuck everything up…….i still have those damm yawns…..but i did my laundry yesterday i was sore but i lived……..you think prozac works? u friend karina JM

From: “Alison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] genetic modification of poppy
Date: August 31, 2002 at 6:45:15 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Was still thinking about all that.  What difference would it make if the poppy plant somnerferum produced codeine and not Heroin  .My understanding is that its the codeine that breaks down into morphine and then the next stage is Heroin.   So how can you make that work.???  Am I wrong.  Is there someone out there who can answer that????    Allison
As long as it has codeine whats to stop the following processes.
—–Original Message—–
From: Alison Senepart <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Date: Saturday, 31 August 2002 19:36
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] genetic modification of poppy

It all still comes down to demand and supply and if the demand is there and not enough supply there is always some way round it.   Years ago in NZ we used to get in the car and do runs all over the place buying up Panadeine tablets that we could take to a baker and then get half back once processed into morphine.  Since then they have changed the tablets but it doesn’t change peoples attitudes or determination to do what they want.  There is always a way.  Sort of turns into a who beats who scenario.  The govt or chemists develop new products and then someone finds a way to beat it.   Perhaps thats human nature??”??   Allison
—–Original Message—–
From: preston peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Date: Friday, 30 August 2002 22:38
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] genetic modification of poppy

I could swear, reading Licit and Illicit Drugs at the moment, that all poppies produce both codeine and heroin.
I’m also reading that it wasn’t up until the early 70s, perhaps very late 60s, that England first tried the US methods of prohibition, instead of simply supplying addicts with dope, which of course, lead to the very same problems the US was facing for decades. IN the beginning, after the Harrison Act passed, England took a good, hard look at what the US had done, CREATING THOUSANDS OF ADDICTS with their insane prohibition laws, and said, Uh, uh, no way, we don’t want that.” Something happened though in the 60, when Brit papers started taking the US-shill line, “oh my gosh, look at that huge increase of addicts, (when they really only had around 4000 or so legally registered there), let’s CRACK DOWN on those loosers.” Sigh.
What a depressing book. Who died and left the prohibitionists in charge of the Earth?
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Brett Calabrese
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 12:30 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] genetic modification of poppy

Didn’t anyone tell these folks you can also make
heroin out of codeine AND there are already flavors of
poppy that produce codeine.

Am I missing something here or is it just another
“bright idea” from the war on drugs folks? So, what
exactly are they trying to accomplish?  (that of
course won’t work anyway).

Brett

>
> The opium poppy is the deadly cash crop of
> Afghanistan, with heroin profits
> going to fund terrorist groups. As DAWN WALTON
> reports, scientists in
> Calgary are attempting to alter the plant to produce
> only codeine, to offer
> farmers a safe, legal alternative to the opiate
> trade
>
> By DAWN WALTON
>
> In Afghanistan and Myanmar, the world’s two leading
> producers of opium
> poppies destined for the illicit heroin trade,
> officials show how seriously
> they take the war on drugs by seizing plants and
> burning them publicly.
>
> In Canada, the battle is being fought in the lab.
>
> Researchers at the University of Calgary are trying
> to genetically modify
> opium poppies, scientifically known as Papaver
> somniferum, to make them more
> virile in the production of codeine, but at the same
> time render them
> impotent in the creation of morphine, the key
> ingredient in heroin.
>
> URL:
> http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v02.n1573.a01.html
>
> ——————————
>
>

__________________________________________________
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From: “Alison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Eyeboneganeboga boga man EvErybODy’sOut do GEt YouMuthafr detoxotebi!i!i!i!i!i!i!
Date: August 31, 2002 at 6:35:01 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi.   I am currently on 10mgs methadone which is good for me and will start
dropping it down a bit now.
I just do my own programme and buy from friends instead of going through all
the bullshit of the clinic stuff.  Not what your really supposed to do but I
reckon we know more about it than the clinic does and I can’t take their
attitudes and the stuff they throw at you.  It costs me a bit to buy on the
side but its worth it to stay away from all the councillers who know exactly
zilch about what your going through.   I’ve dropped from 50mgs and have not
been using and have started to feel really good and the old brain is almost
into gear again.  Biggest step is the last 10mls cos thats when I usually
fall off and then have to start again.
Hang in Karina…. It does get better and it feels so good to take some
control of your own life.  Allison
PS  I must admit I’m still taking Prozac but I reckon from other
conversations with people that depression is a big part of the addiction
process, I know especially for women, and am not sure about males.  Anyone
else out there got any knowledge about that.???
—–Original Message—–
From: Nicholas Labus <goosebumpz2002@yahoo.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Date: Saturday, 31 August 2002 05:13
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: Eyeboneganeboga boga man EvErybODy’sOut do GEt
YouMuthafr detoxotebi!i!i!i!i!i!i!

So your crazy just like me  I’m on Lithium too but hey it gets
better if you can just deal with yourself once you take drugs{all}
out of the  equation you still have yourself too deal with and it
took alot of tears 4me 2 relize dat so for withdrawl here some shit
dude im telling you just sedate yourself under the supervision of
others after you get down to 20mgs of meth ,but you have to be truly
ready for detox /recovery and sedate yourself for a week then slowly
ween yourself off the sedative-s over 3 weeks the process takes
about a month or so but its worth it and in those moments of awake
time learn about recovery but, like i said you have to be truly
ready it says in the A.A./N.A. books that you cant heal the mind and
spirit till your body is done healing from the withdrawal.. I say
this because ive seen so many people try to quite in 1 week and say
oh well give me a week and ill be back to work well, sorry it
doesn’t work like that Methadone or methadone or L.a.m.m. all have
half lives of seven days so if you take 20 milligrams of methadone
for 2 weeks its gonna be in your system for two weeks and the real
withrawl wont start happening for 4-6 days after your last dose
because its designed to last long and stay in your system…well
back on track so the point is take your time get down top 20 or 10
mgs of meth would be ideal and give your self a moth or two go into
meetings lose the old using friends find new acquanances  it will
get better i promise you didn’t become addicted in one day so easy
does it. Your general Nick L. frm.A2MI
— Alison Senepart <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
Thats the worst bit, lack of energy I reckon.   It just destroys
you.  My only option was to give up and stay in bed lots and rest
lots but am not sure if that is what your supposed to do.  Anyways
its worked for me so I just put lots of things aside as
unimportant in the scheme of things and I had a really good friend
who helped me out.  Have you got someone like that???    Whats
your doctor doing??? surely he can help you out a bit more
perhaps.   I know Clonidine is supposed to stop the sweats etc.
but am not sure of the others you are on.
Maybe if you are so miserable think about taking a small amount of
methadone and dropping it a ml or so every day or couple of days
just to give yourself a bit of a break.   Its all very well
dealing with physical effects but its also the emotional and
mental effects that drive you crazy;
Good luck….Allison
—–Original Message—–
From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com <Mzzthangg13@aol.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Date: Friday, 30 August 2002 04:57
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine better then any other detox?

hi, ibogaine is not a cure believe me…..it just is way
better than cold turkey…….and unfortunately for me it did not
help with carvings…..i shot dope 1 time..than was taking all at
once xanax,codeine,vic Odin,klonopins,phenobarbital..and now i
feel
like shit cause i stopped them.the only beds i take are
clonodine,trazadone,seroquiil……so now i am suffering big time
cause i cannot afford a 2nd treatment of ibogaine……..it’s not
bad as cold turkey but i have no energy. I’m just here that’d
it………..

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From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] genetic modification of poppy
Date: August 31, 2002 at 6:22:15 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Um, is it legal to explain to us how to do this?
Sure sometimes wish I lived in Canada.;-))
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Nicholas Labus
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 2:51 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] genetic modification of poppy

please write back DO NOT JUST RESPOND!Un-KIna-IA/Zim-zalla-alla-BIM
aNOTHERR THING FOR u.s.a. IN CANADA YOU CAN GET 222 OVER
THE COUNTER EACH HAS 15MGS OF CODEINE:SULFATE 10mgs of caffeine and
350mgs of actamiophen or tylenaol you get to choose I use tylenol
because it extracts easier well crush up 30 pills too a fine powder
and put in{powder} just slightly below boiling H2O,for 5 mins,then
you put it in your fridge,not frezer then, let it get cold ,!you
see, opiates are water solubable and tylenol is barely, very barely
water soluable. so when it cools you will see white chunks at the
bottom and the rest will be kind of whitish clear water {with
codeine and some caffeine infused} well take  eiter cheese cloth or
coffee filters and strain it while its extremely cold cuz, the
colder the water the less soluble the tylenol is well the caffeine
is soluble too but out of 30 pills {15mg a pill of codeiene}you
should get about350mgs of codeine sulfate 250 mgs of caffeine  and
anywhere from200mgs. – 950mgs. of acetami./tylenol which is well
under the maximum does just remember strain it while its cold and
you might have to double up on the cuffee filters but when i had a
habit of 1/5 OF GRAM A DAY OF “RAW”{“H”} it got me straight but
codeine is not like heroin or morphine when taken in large doeses
200mgs plus+ its more like taking a couple of valiums and a qualude
and some morphine its very different from the heroin with will make
you clean your house this codeine will make you so lazy i could
barely move {in a good way}hehe but very comfortable but ya! it
makes you comfortably numb. by the way you can barely tell theres
caffeine in it,it’s like drinkin’ 3 cups of coffee witch helps you
enjoy the codeine better, I swear this is true you know what i’m
gonna do it next week as a matter of fact well go to {+}Erowids {+}
vault on codeine sulfate, he tells you more complex metods which get
out the codeine strictly. But all it is,is the fact that one is very
water soluble{COD.SULF.} and the other is only soluable in boiling
water{Tylen/acetamino.} so heat it up mix it all up then cool it
down in your fridge but not freezing.4my first time I used a
pickleing jar then put two coffe filters on top after ingrediants
are in then heated then shook it up while real hot then put it in my
fridge till chilly actually i surrounded it by ice well as it got
colder i could see the tyleol fall to the bottom and just float in
the middle well i put 2 rubber bands around the coffee filters which
completely covered pickeling  clear glass jar and tipped it upside
down using the filters it took about an hour cuz i went and took a
nap when its all drained you take the water the was strained and is
still chilly and add some sugar and some cool-aide mix cuz its
EXTREMELY BITTER. and drink it. In 15 to twenty minutes You will
start too relax and your feeling of being “BOGUE” will start to
diminish if your dope sick then you will know you will be fine go
take a nap then start on a big batch.Damn those canadians are smart.
You can get 1,000 pills for i think $12 canadian it is illegal to
bring them into  U.S.A. i bought 10,000 pills one time and actually
bought lab equipment and i found these one pills that had only
100mgs of Tylenol and 10mgs of Codeine. and 10 of Caffe. so well to
make it simple the less aspirin to codeine ratio is better well i
found a way to get 3/4 of the caffeine and 90% of the tylenol i got
this refinded {codeine}{80,000mgs} with very low {caff.} and low
{tylen.} all for $120.100mgs is recomended for someone who has no
habit to opiates my friend took approx.1,500mgs and web had trouble
keepin him awake but i recomend if you have either a 6 mack pack a
day habit start off with 300 mgs then more only after 3 hours
stricktly not quickly it can be tricky Ricky dont get picky or
sticky cuz it will make you sickly quickly no joke foke. Well you
can get addicted to anything and that was the last time i do
anything like that so have fun live long and prosper plant as many
legal psycoactive plants as you can we shoul  start a crusade like
johnny apple seed except we will call it [{(Johnny
POPPYSEED!!;-}]{+}Please write back Jack no sacks no packs no heart
attacks no sips no trips no weekend slips  Yours truly, Yoda. c

I used to love
makin a concauction of 200mgs of codeine sulfate {and however much
caffeine was in it}, then a pack of good heron{MACK}, then 1 valium,
1 dexadrine{the real shit} or 2 if I feel I might doze off or fall
asleep  a hit of acid-25 which also kept me awake, 1 qualude ,1 hit
of Mdma{E!}[X!], smoke a joint before and during {it helps with the
stomach} and when it kicks in i’d snort a small line of ketamine
maybe two then meditate i did this 3 months ago.Absolutly !No!
Cocaine or Alcohol{till later hehe}maybe i could have slashed out
the heron but anyways i accidently wet myself i fould it possible to
leave my body and travel through space and time i got so caght up in
duing that,that i had wet myself but it was ok my friend Jim was
there who was sober if you try this always let theree be 2 sober
people for every explorer but theres is something about codeine
thats different than morph. or heroin it has a sedative affect well
70% of the codeine turns into dopamine/morphine in the brain but
what the another 20% percent does is a mystery to science and 10
percent is a sedative close to XANAX/ inebriant im not talking out
my ass i swear to death for real! but anyways now im strung ouut on
methadone ive kicked it twice and im not ready yet but soon very
soon im just being honest please write back DO NOT JUST RESPOND!!!
— Alison Senepart <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
> In NZ a lot of people grow their own poppies or pinch other
> peoples cos they
> can’t get heroin very easy and its lots and lots cheaper or costs
> nothing.
> . The climate seems to suit them and they grow like weeds even
> from a packet
> of seeds from the supermaket.   I don’t know about other countries
> but its
> legal to grow the opium poppies here but not to cut or use them.
> Its a very
> raw product when baked over a kitchen stove and also lots rougher
> on the
> system but affordability and availability have a lot to do with
> it.  There
> is also a habit of boiling up poppy seeds and drinking them here
> but I’m not
> so clued up with that one.  As far as I know it tastes revolting
> but
> quietens the system from withdrawal and gives a degree of high.
> —–Original Message—–
> From: Dana Beal <cnw@calyx.net>
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
> Date: Friday, 30 August 2002 10:57
> Subject: [ibogaine] genetic modification of poppy
>
>
> >
> >Pubdate: Sat, 24 Aug 2002
> >Source: Globe and Mail (Canada)
> >Copyright: 2002, The Globe and Mail Company
> >Contact: letters@globeandmail.ca
> >Website: http://www.globeandmail.ca/
> >Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/168
> >Author: Dawn Walton
> >Bookmark: http://www.mapinc.org/heroin.htm (Heroin)
> >
> >TO DEFANG THE POPPY’S KISS
> >
> >The opium poppy is the deadly cash crop of Afghanistan, with
> heroin profits
> >going to fund terrorist groups. As DAWN WALTON reports,
> scientists in
> >Calgary are attempting to alter the plant to produce only
> codeine, to offer
> >farmers a safe, legal alternative to the opiate trade
> >
> >By DAWN WALTON
> >
> >In Afghanistan and Myanmar, the world’s two leading producers of
> opium
> >poppies destined for the illicit heroin trade, officials show how
> seriously
> >they take the war on drugs by seizing plants and burning them
> publicly.
> >
> >In Canada, the battle is being fought in the lab.
> >
> >Researchers at the University of Calgary are trying to
> genetically modify
> >opium poppies, scientifically known as Papaver somniferum, to
> make them
> more
> >virile in the production of codeine, but at the same time render
> them
> >impotent in the creation of morphine, the key ingredient in
> heroin.
> >
> >URL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v02.n1573.a01.html
> >
> >——————————
> >
> >
>
>
>

__________________________________________________
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From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] genetic modification of poppy
Date: August 31, 2002 at 3:59:21 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You know how to bake shelf-shop drugs into Morphine?
Where are u? I.’ coming!!!
Good morning
andria

From: “Alison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] genetic modification of poppy
Date: August 30, 2002 at 9:12:52 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

It all still comes down to demand and supply and if the demand is there and not enough supply there is always some way round it.   Years ago in NZ we used to get in the car and do runs all over the place buying up Panadeine tablets that we could take to a baker and then get half back once processed into morphine.  Since then they have changed the tablets but it doesn’t change peoples attitudes or determination to do what they want.  There is always a way.  Sort of turns into a who beats who scenario.  The govt or chemists develop new products and then someone finds a way to beat it.   Perhaps thats human nature??”??   Allison
—–Original Message—–
From: preston peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Date: Friday, 30 August 2002 22:38
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] genetic modification of poppy

I could swear, reading Licit and Illicit Drugs at the moment, that all poppies produce both codeine and heroin.
I’m also reading that it wasn’t up until the early 70s, perhaps very late 60s, that England first tried the US methods of prohibition, instead of simply supplying addicts with dope, which of course, lead to the very same problems the US was facing for decades. IN the beginning, after the Harrison Act passed, England took a good, hard look at what the US had done, CREATING THOUSANDS OF ADDICTS with their insane prohibition laws, and said, Uh, uh, no way, we don’t want that.” Something happened though in the 60, when Brit papers started taking the US-shill line, “oh my gosh, look at that huge increase of addicts, (when they really only had around 4000 or so legally registered there), let’s CRACK DOWN on those loosers.” Sigh.
What a depressing book. Who died and left the prohibitionists in charge of the Earth?
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Brett Calabrese
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 12:30 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] genetic modification of poppy

Didn’t anyone tell these folks you can also make
heroin out of codeine AND there are already flavors of
poppy that produce codeine.

Am I missing something here or is it just another
“bright idea” from the war on drugs folks? So, what
exactly are they trying to accomplish?  (that of
course won’t work anyway).

Brett

>
> The opium poppy is the deadly cash crop of
> Afghanistan, with heroin profits
> going to fund terrorist groups. As DAWN WALTON
> reports, scientists in
> Calgary are attempting to alter the plant to produce
> only codeine, to offer
> farmers a safe, legal alternative to the opiate
> trade
>
> By DAWN WALTON
>
> In Afghanistan and Myanmar, the world’s two leading
> producers of opium
> poppies destined for the illicit heroin trade,
> officials show how seriously
> they take the war on drugs by seizing plants and
> burning them publicly.
>
> In Canada, the battle is being fought in the lab.
>
> Researchers at the University of Calgary are trying
> to genetically modify
> opium poppies, scientifically known as Papaver
> somniferum, to make them more
> virile in the production of codeine, but at the same
> time render them
> impotent in the creation of morphine, the key
> ingredient in heroin.
>
> URL:
> http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v02.n1573.a01.html
>
> ——————————
>
>

__________________________________________________
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From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Stillin yr system…
Date: August 30, 2002 at 7:14:56 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Karina
It is likely that there is still methadone coming out of u, but mostly it will be the rearrangement of yr chemistry that will be causing the discomfort, not to mention the emotions that come with it; that’s why finding a good/sane sensible person to talk things through is generally a good idea after long habits
Praise and peace to U
andria

From: Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibo & residual Oxycontin withdrawels
Date: August 30, 2002 at 5:18:01 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

And was it Ibogaine HCl, or was it something else?

Marko

At 22:45 30.8.2002, you wrote:
Hi Marko,
You got the time frame right.  When writing the post, I thought that my
times could have been clearer, but decided to go with it.  I think that my
data is accurate,however will have to double check everything.  The way I am
feeling my brain does not want to function as sharply as I would like.

Captain
—– Original Message —–
From: “Ustanova Iboga” <Iboga@guest.arnes.si>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 2:54 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibo & residual Oxycontin withdrawels

> Hi Captain,
>
> Are you sure that you took HCl? I mean, you took 35,7 mg/kg as the first
> dose, then 2 days later 18,5 mg/kg, and 4 days after this (if I understand
> it correct) another 18,5 mg/kg… This means that in less than a week you
> took 5,1 g or 72,8 mg/kg/week of HCl… Who gave you that much???
>
> (sorry, I don’t feel competent to answer your questions)
>
> Marko
>
>
> At 20:18 30.8.2002, you wrote:
>
> >   Here’s the approximate breakdown on my Ibo treatment.
> >Initial dose four weeks ago: 2 1/2 g HCL.
> >2 days later: 1.3 g HCL.
> >6 days later: 1.3 g HCL.
> >I weigh 70 kg.  Hope that covers the details needed for my questions.
>
>
>
>

From: “Captain 357” <captain357@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibo & residual Oxycontin withdrawels
Date: August 30, 2002 at 4:45:00 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Marko,
You got the time frame right.  When writing the post, I thought that my
times could have been clearer, but decided to go with it.  I think that my
data is accurate,however will have to double check everything.  The way I am
feeling my brain does not want to function as sharply as I would like.

Captain
—– Original Message —–
From: “Ustanova Iboga” <Iboga@guest.arnes.si>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 2:54 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibo & residual Oxycontin withdrawels

Hi Captain,

Are you sure that you took HCl? I mean, you took 35,7 mg/kg as the first
dose, then 2 days later 18,5 mg/kg, and 4 days after this (if I understand
it correct) another 18,5 mg/kg… This means that in less than a week you
took 5,1 g or 72,8 mg/kg/week of HCl… Who gave you that much???

(sorry, I don’t feel competent to answer your questions)

Marko

At 20:18 30.8.2002, you wrote:

Here’s the approximate breakdown on my Ibo treatment.
Initial dose four weeks ago: 2 1/2 g HCL.
2 days later: 1.3 g HCL.
6 days later: 1.3 g HCL.
I weigh 70 kg.  Hope that covers the details needed for my questions.

From: Joatammmo23@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: List Changes
Date: August 30, 2002 at 4:33:32 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Unsubscribe mindvox Kingboki

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibo & residual Oxycontin withdrawels
Date: August 30, 2002 at 4:33:19 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Marko,

“you took
35,7 mg/kg as the first
dose”

OOPS, I missed that. Read it as he took 2.5 gm total
(what was I reading???) which was (about) 1.3 and 1.3
– totally spaced on that, read right through it –
another reason to ask as many people as you can. I
tell you, misplace a decimal point and you are in
trouble…

Yeah, YOU DID HOW MUCH HCL or exactly what? Was it
whiteish or brownish (if you don’t know what it is),
if it is whiteish it is HCL, if it looks like dried
mud, it is Indra. HCL is about 5 times as strong as
Indra.

I would think that would be Indra or something like
that or geez, that would be some trip report if he
remembered any of it.  If this is true, certainly try
taking 1gm and go from there but you could also do a
full session (3+ grams).

Brett

— Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si> wrote:
Hi Captain,

Are you sure that you took HCl? I mean, you took
35,7 mg/kg as the first
dose, then 2 days later 18,5 mg/kg, and 4 days after
this (if I understand
it correct) another 18,5 mg/kg… This means that in
less than a week you
took 5,1 g or 72,8 mg/kg/week of HCl… Who gave you
that much???

(sorry, I don’t feel competent to answer your
questions)

Marko

At 20:18 30.8.2002, you wrote:

Here’s the approximate breakdown on my Ibo
treatment.
Initial dose four weeks ago: 2 1/2 g HCL.
2 days later: 1.3 g HCL.
6 days later: 1.3 g HCL.
I weigh 70 kg.  Hope that covers the details needed
for my questions.

__________________________________________________
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From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibo & residual Oxycontin withdrawels
Date: August 30, 2002 at 3:31:47 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— Captain 357 <captain357@attbi.com> wrote:
Hi, I’m looking for information on extended Ibo
dosing to lessen residual
withdrawals.  > shot up a week after my last dose.
Here’s the approximate breakdown on my Ibo
treatment.
Initial dose four weeks ago: 2 1/2 g HCL.
2 days later: 1.3 g HCL.
6 days later: 1.3 g HCL.
I weigh 70 kg.  Hope that covers the details needed
for my questions.
* Will more Ibo help?

That is what I would do. Plus a few other things,
detox teas, phenylalanine, maybe some dilantin if your
legs are dancing around.

* Is it dangerous to take Ibo for extended periods?

Not in normal human dosages.

If so, what time should
be given between larger addiction breaking doses?

Once the rule of thumb was 30 days. I think that was
so you don’t build up toxic ibogaine metabolites –
which aren’t toxic anyway.

*What dose should I take if this will help and on

Larger and repeated doses are more effective. That
said, if you didn’t “want” to do as high a dose as you
did (1.3gm – about 20mg/kg), at your weight you could
do a lower 10-12mg/kg dose, or about 850mg. I don’t
know, how available ibogaine is to you??? Another
thing you could do is small amounts, say 100mg and see
if that takes the edge off – some people do it that
way, usually with Indra.

what schedule if very
small incremental doses would work?

They can. Let me put it this way, if I had a gram of
ibogaine and a drug problem I would take the whole
thing (100mg test dose first of course…) at once and
not dink around with it. Overall, the success rate of
that 1gm all at once will be greater than incremental
doses – IMVHO of course.

How does it work, pretty much however you want. You
could try 50mg twice a day, or 100mg once a day, or
70mg twice a day or if/when that doesn’t work, give
yourself a kick in the butt with a few hundred mg’s.
Or of course you could give yourself a few hundred
mg’s to start (take the edge off maybe) and then see
what happens, maybe take a few incremental doses if
you like. There isn’t anything chistled in stone on
how if or how it will work for you, do it one way (if
you have the ibo) and if that don’t work, try another
– eg try incremental doses, if they don’t work, then
try a full dose…

I would stay on the vitamins, you might not notice a
difference unless you could put you and you
side-by-side with or without them.

Your input is appreciated.  I looked around the
net for this info, but
could not find it in direct reference to people,
only lab animals.  Maybe
tomorrow I’ll feel allot better, great.  In the
meantime, I just feel
compelled to learn all I can about what I’m going
through.

Thanks,
Captain

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From: Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibo & residual Oxycontin withdrawels
Date: August 30, 2002 at 2:54:35 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Captain,

Are you sure that you took HCl? I mean, you took 35,7 mg/kg as the first dose, then 2 days later 18,5 mg/kg, and 4 days after this (if I understand it correct) another 18,5 mg/kg… This means that in less than a week you took 5,1 g or 72,8 mg/kg/week of HCl… Who gave you that much???

(sorry, I don’t feel competent to answer your questions)

Marko

At 20:18 30.8.2002, you wrote:

Here’s the approximate breakdown on my Ibo treatment.
Initial dose four weeks ago: 2 1/2 g HCL.
2 days later: 1.3 g HCL.
6 days later: 1.3 g HCL.
I weigh 70 kg.  Hope that covers the details needed for my questions.

From: Nicholas Labus <goosebumpz2002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] genetic modification of poppy
Date: August 30, 2002 at 2:51:57 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

please write back DO NOT JUST RESPOND!Un-KIna-IA/Zim-zalla-alla-BIM
aNOTHERR THING FOR u.s.a. IN CANADA YOU CAN GET 222 OVER
THE COUNTER EACH HAS 15MGS OF CODEINE:SULFATE 10mgs of caffeine and
350mgs of actamiophen or tylenaol you get to choose I use tylenol
because it extracts easier well crush up 30 pills too a fine powder
and put in{powder} just slightly below boiling H2O,for 5 mins,then
you put it in your fridge,not frezer then, let it get cold ,!you
see, opiates are water solubable and tylenol is barely, very barely
water soluable. so when it cools you will see white chunks at the
bottom and the rest will be kind of whitish clear water {with
codeine and some caffeine infused} well take  eiter cheese cloth or
coffee filters and strain it while its extremely cold cuz, the
colder the water the less soluble the tylenol is well the caffeine
is soluble too but out of 30 pills {15mg a pill of codeiene}you
should get about350mgs of codeine sulfate 250 mgs of caffeine  and
anywhere from200mgs. – 950mgs. of acetami./tylenol which is well
under the maximum does just remember strain it while its cold and
you might have to double up on the cuffee filters but when i had a
habit of 1/5 OF GRAM A DAY OF “RAW”{“H”} it got me straight but
codeine is not like heroin or morphine when taken in large doeses
200mgs plus+ its more like taking a couple of valiums and a qualude
and some morphine its very different from the heroin with will make
you clean your house this codeine will make you so lazy i could
barely move {in a good way}hehe but very comfortable but ya! it
makes you comfortably numb. by the way you can barely tell theres
caffeine in it,it’s like drinkin’ 3 cups of coffee witch helps you
enjoy the codeine better, I swear this is true you know what i’m
gonna do it next week as a matter of fact well go to {+}Erowids {+}
vault on codeine sulfate, he tells you more complex metods which get
out the codeine strictly. But all it is,is the fact that one is very
water soluble{COD.SULF.} and the other is only soluable in boiling
water{Tylen/acetamino.} so heat it up mix it all up then cool it
down in your fridge but not freezing.4my first time I used a
pickleing jar then put two coffe filters on top after ingrediants
are in then heated then shook it up while real hot then put it in my
fridge till chilly actually i surrounded it by ice well as it got
colder i could see the tyleol fall to the bottom and just float in
the middle well i put 2 rubber bands around the coffee filters which
completely covered pickeling  clear glass jar and tipped it upside
down using the filters it took about an hour cuz i went and took a
nap when its all drained you take the water the was strained and is
still chilly and add some sugar and some cool-aide mix cuz its
EXTREMELY BITTER. and drink it. In 15 to twenty minutes You will
start too relax and your feeling of being “BOGUE” will start to
diminish if your dope sick then you will know you will be fine go
take a nap then start on a big batch.Damn those canadians are smart.
You can get 1,000 pills for i think $12 canadian it is illegal to
bring them into  U.S.A. i bought 10,000 pills one time and actually
bought lab equipment and i found these one pills that had only
100mgs of Tylenol and 10mgs of Codeine. and 10 of Caffe. so well to
make it simple the less aspirin to codeine ratio is better well i
found a way to get 3/4 of the caffeine and 90% of the tylenol i got
this refinded {codeine}{80,000mgs} with very low {caff.} and low
{tylen.} all for $120.100mgs is recomended for someone who has no
habit to opiates my friend took approx.1,500mgs and web had trouble
keepin him awake but i recomend if you have either a 6 mack pack a
day habit start off with 300 mgs then more only after 3 hours
stricktly not quickly it can be tricky Ricky dont get picky or
sticky cuz it will make you sickly quickly no joke foke. Well you
can get addicted to anything and that was the last time i do
anything like that so have fun live long and prosper plant as many
legal psycoactive plants as you can we shoul  start a crusade like
johnny apple seed except we will call it [{(Johnny
POPPYSEED!!;-}]{+}Please write back Jack no sacks no packs no heart
attacks no sips no trips no weekend slips  Yours truly, Yoda. c

I used to love
makin a concauction of 200mgs of codeine sulfate {and however much
caffeine was in it}, then a pack of good heron{MACK}, then 1 valium,
1 dexadrine{the real shit} or 2 if I feel I might doze off or fall
asleep  a hit of acid-25 which also kept me awake, 1 qualude ,1 hit
of Mdma{E!}[X!], smoke a joint before and during {it helps with the
stomach} and when it kicks in i’d snort a small line of ketamine
maybe two then meditate i did this 3 months ago.Absolutly !No!
Cocaine or Alcohol{till later hehe}maybe i could have slashed out
the heron but anyways i accidently wet myself i fould it possible to
leave my body and travel through space and time i got so caght up in
duing that,that i had wet myself but it was ok my friend Jim was
there who was sober if you try this always let theree be 2 sober
people for every explorer but theres is something about codeine
thats different than morph. or heroin it has a sedative affect well
70% of the codeine turns into dopamine/morphine in the brain but
what the another 20% percent does is a mystery to science and 10
percent is a sedative close to XANAX/ inebriant im not talking out
my ass i swear to death for real! but anyways now im strung ouut on
methadone ive kicked it twice and im not ready yet but soon very
soon im just being honest please write back DO NOT JUST RESPOND!!!
— Alison Senepart <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
In NZ a lot of people grow their own poppies or pinch other
peoples cos they
can’t get heroin very easy and its lots and lots cheaper or costs
nothing.
. The climate seems to suit them and they grow like weeds even
from a packet
of seeds from the supermaket.   I don’t know about other countries
but its
legal to grow the opium poppies here but not to cut or use them.
Its a very
raw product when baked over a kitchen stove and also lots rougher
on the
system but affordability and availability have a lot to do with
it.  There
is also a habit of boiling up poppy seeds and drinking them here
but I’m not
so clued up with that one.  As far as I know it tastes revolting
but
quietens the system from withdrawal and gives a degree of high.
—–Original Message—–
From: Dana Beal <cnw@calyx.net>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Date: Friday, 30 August 2002 10:57
Subject: [ibogaine] genetic modification of poppy

Pubdate: Sat, 24 Aug 2002
Source: Globe and Mail (Canada)
Copyright: 2002, The Globe and Mail Company
Contact: letters@globeandmail.ca
Website: http://www.globeandmail.ca/
Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/168
Author: Dawn Walton
Bookmark: http://www.mapinc.org/heroin.htm (Heroin)

TO DEFANG THE POPPY’S KISS

The opium poppy is the deadly cash crop of Afghanistan, with
heroin profits
going to fund terrorist groups. As DAWN WALTON reports,
scientists in
Calgary are attempting to alter the plant to produce only
codeine, to offer
farmers a safe, legal alternative to the opiate trade

By DAWN WALTON

In Afghanistan and Myanmar, the world’s two leading producers of
opium
poppies destined for the illicit heroin trade, officials show how
seriously
they take the war on drugs by seizing plants and burning them
publicly.

In Canada, the battle is being fought in the lab.

Researchers at the University of Calgary are trying to
genetically modify
opium poppies, scientifically known as Papaver somniferum, to
make them
more
virile in the production of codeine, but at the same time render
them
impotent in the creation of morphine, the key ingredient in
heroin.

URL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v02.n1573.a01.html

——————————

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibo & residual Oxycontin withdrawels
Date: August 30, 2002 at 2:30:04 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi i did ibo to get off 100 mgs of methadone…then i get home the 2nd day i thought i was going to cut my legs off they hurt so much i went to the ER 6 times……than i started taking codine,shot heroin 1 time took 25mg of meth 1 time xanax, trazadone,klonopin,clonodine,elavil 1 time 200 mgs…i blacked out….it’s been 1 week today now i only take seroquil,clonodine,& trazadones….but believe me i know how you feel…..everything hurts….i did have another script for vidocin and threw it away….i am afraid if i do anything (drugs) I’ll never get better…i wish i could have a 2nd treatment of ibo…but cannot afford it……so i just suffer..i am laid off work but will be going back soon….as far as more ibo for you ask where you got it they will tell you when you can do it again…..karina JM

From: “Captain 357” <captain357@attbi.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Ibo & residual Oxycontin withdrawels
Date: August 30, 2002 at 2:18:58 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@lists.calyx.nl>
Cc: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi, I’m looking for information on extended Ibo dosing to lessen residual
withdrawals.  I’ve read the few recent posts regarding withdrawals, but had
some detailed questions regarding my situation–I want to be safe and follow
protocol.  As of today, I am four weeks clean from a heavy pill habit.  My
habit was outlined in detail in a post a couple weeks ago, “Side Effects”,
and to keep this semi short, I’ll just give the following: 800+ mg of
Oxycontin ( more + than not)  for a year prior to Ibo treatment.  From
responses to my last post and ones I’ve read lately, I know that it will
take time to start feeling right.  However, that doesn’t make it any easier.
I have no desire to take pain killers for fun since my Ibo treatment, just
to curb the the withdrawals that leave me unable to function productively at
work or home.  I did cave-in earlier in the week and took a Perk.  Yeah,
this gave me some temporary relief, but I don’t know how this may have set
me back overall in getting through the residual withdrawals and now just
think how stupid it was.  I’ve tried Clonadin, Valium (very limited),
Dl-Phenyl***, vitamins, and Melatonin, with no real results for me.  So I’m
wondering if more Ibo would calm things down.  My withdrawals seemed to have
shot up a week after my last dose.
Here’s the approximate breakdown on my Ibo treatment.
Initial dose four weeks ago: 2 1/2 g HCL.
2 days later: 1.3 g HCL.
6 days later: 1.3 g HCL.
I weigh 70 kg.  Hope that covers the details needed for my questions.
* Will more Ibo help?
* Is it dangerous to take Ibo for extended periods?  If so, what time should
be given between larger addiction breaking doses?
*What dose should I take if this will help and on what schedule if very
small incremental doses would work?
Your input is appreciated.  I looked around the net for this info, but
could not find it in direct reference to people, only lab animals.  Maybe
tomorrow I’ll feel allot better, great.  In the meantime, I just feel
compelled to learn all I can about what I’m going through.

Thanks,
Captain

From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Eyeboneganeboga boga man EvErybODy’sOut do GEt YouMuthafr …
Date: August 30, 2002 at 1:20:38 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi like you said methadone has 1/2 life but what do you think if someone did ibogaine like myself……will the methadone still be in my system like if i detoxed slow??????? thanks karina JM

From: Nicholas Labus <goosebumpz2002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: Eyeboneganeboga boga man EvErybODy’sOut do GEt YouMuthafr detoxotebi!i!i!i!i!i!i!
Date: August 30, 2002 at 1:13:37 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

So your crazy just like me  I’m on Lithium too but hey it gets
better if you can just deal with yourself once you take drugs{all}
out of the  equation you still have yourself too deal with and it
took alot of tears 4me 2 relize dat so for withdrawl here some shit
dude im telling you just sedate yourself under the supervision of
others after you get down to 20mgs of meth ,but you have to be truly
ready for detox /recovery and sedate yourself for a week then slowly
ween yourself off the sedative-s over 3 weeks the process takes
about a month or so but its worth it and in those moments of awake
time learn about recovery but, like i said you have to be truly
ready it says in the A.A./N.A. books that you cant heal the mind and
spirit till your body is done healing from the withdrawal.. I say
this because ive seen so many people try to quite in 1 week and say
oh well give me a week and ill be back to work well, sorry it
doesn’t work like that Methadone or methadone or L.a.m.m. all have
half lives of seven days so if you take 20 milligrams of methadone
for 2 weeks its gonna be in your system for two weeks and the real
withrawl wont start happening for 4-6 days after your last dose
because its designed to last long and stay in your system…well
back on track so the point is take your time get down top 20 or 10
mgs of meth would be ideal and give your self a moth or two go into
meetings lose the old using friends find new acquanances  it will
get better i promise you didn’t become addicted in one day so easy
does it. Your general Nick L. frm.A2MI
— Alison Senepart <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
Thats the worst bit, lack of energy I reckon.   It just destroys
you.  My only option was to give up and stay in bed lots and rest
lots but am not sure if that is what your supposed to do.  Anyways
its worked for me so I just put lots of things aside as
unimportant in the scheme of things and I had a really good friend
who helped me out.  Have you got someone like that???    Whats
your doctor doing??? surely he can help you out a bit more
perhaps.   I know Clonidine is supposed to stop the sweats etc.
but am not sure of the others you are on.
Maybe if you are so miserable think about taking a small amount of
methadone and dropping it a ml or so every day or couple of days
just to give yourself a bit of a break.   Its all very well
dealing with physical effects but its also the emotional and
mental effects that drive you crazy;
Good luck….Allison
—–Original Message—–
From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com <Mzzthangg13@aol.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Date: Friday, 30 August 2002 04:57
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine better then any other detox?

hi, ibogaine is not a cure believe me…..it just is way
better than cold turkey…….and unfortunately for me it did not
help with carvings…..i shot dope 1 time..than was taking all at
once xanax,codeine,vic Odin,klonopins,phenobarbital..and now i
feel
like shit cause i stopped them.the only beds i take are
clonodine,trazadone,seroquiil……so now i am suffering big time
cause i cannot afford a 2nd treatment of ibogaine……..it’s not
bad as cold turkey but i have no energy. I’m just here that’d
it………..

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] genetic modification of poppy
Date: August 30, 2002 at 9:04:34 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>He would take a
large amount, throw them through the coffee griner or blender, and then
cold-soak the whole mess for a few days (he reported that he always had
a jar on hand for times of need).  When he was without, he would slug
the whole mess down.<

I just read a couple of days ago that boiling can destory some of the opiate molecules, so cold soaking I imagine would probably work pretty well. Boiling, one should only boil for…oh, hold on a sec…I take it back, I don’t know anything about it, nope, uh-uh, and I take back that last message about breaking apart poppy pods and boiling them after obtaining them at some flower shops, then adding a tea bag and sugar/honey, as I certainly do not want thought police/info censors banging on, or worse, down, my door.
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Rick Venglarcik
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 8:47 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] genetic modification of poppy

I had a client once who was a 120 Mg. methadone drinker that related
this same information.  He indicated that when he was without dope, he
was able to avoid withdrawal symptoms with this method.  He would take a
large amount, throw them through the coffee griner or blender, and then
cold-soak the whole mess for a few days (he reported that he always had
a jar on hand for times of need).  When he was without, he would slug
the whole mess down.

BTW, you broke the law…the thought police and information censors
will be pounding at your door at any moment.

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

>>> ptpeet@nyc.rr.com 08/30/02 08:16AM >>>
As far as I know, the laws here in the US governing growing poppies are
about the same, as are those governing their use. Growing is cool, using
is not cool
One can also simply break apart the dried pods and boil those,
easily obtained at some dried flower shops, for a nice, tranquil tea
that won’t do all that much, but does do something. (Sometimes they have
flecks of opium sap dried on their outer skin too.) Adding a Red Zinger
tea bag, or even Earl Grey, helps the taste, as does sugar/honey.
Of course, did I just break The Law by explaining that?
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Alison Senepart
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 7:11 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] genetic modification of poppy

In NZ a lot of people grow their own poppies or pinch other peoples
cos they
can’t get heroin very easy and its lots and lots cheaper or costs
nothing.
. The climate seems to suit them and they grow like weeds even from a
packet
of seeds from the supermaket.   I don’t know about other countries
but its
legal to grow the opium poppies here but not to cut or use them. Its
a very
raw product when baked over a kitchen stove and also lots rougher on
the
system but affordability and availability have a lot to do with it.
There
is also a habit of boiling up poppy seeds and drinking them here but
I’m not
so clued up with that one.  As far as I know it tastes revolting but
quietens the system from withdrawal and gives a degree of high.
—–Original Message—–
From: Dana Beal <cnw@calyx.net>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Date: Friday, 30 August 2002 10:57
Subject: [ibogaine] genetic modification of poppy

>
>Pubdate: Sat, 24 Aug 2002
>Source: Globe and Mail (Canada)
>Copyright: 2002, The Globe and Mail Company
>Contact: letters@globeandmail.ca
>Website: http://www.globeandmail.ca/
>Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/168
>Author: Dawn Walton
>Bookmark: http://www.mapinc.org/heroin.htm (Heroin)
>
>TO DEFANG THE POPPY’S KISS
>
>The opium poppy is the deadly cash crop of Afghanistan, with heroin
profits
>going to fund terrorist groups. As DAWN WALTON reports, scientists
in
>Calgary are attempting to alter the plant to produce only codeine,
to offer
>farmers a safe, legal alternative to the opiate trade
>
>By DAWN WALTON
>
>In Afghanistan and Myanmar, the world’s two leading producers of
opium
>poppies destined for the illicit heroin trade, officials show how
seriously
>they take the war on drugs by seizing plants and burning them
publicly.
>
>In Canada, the battle is being fought in the lab.
>
>Researchers at the University of Calgary are trying to genetically
modify
>opium poppies, scientifically known as Papaver somniferum, to make
them
more
>virile in the production of codeine, but at the same time render
them
>impotent in the creation of morphine, the key ingredient in heroin.
>
>URL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v02.n1573.a01.html
>
>——————————
>
>

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] genetic modification of poppy
Date: August 30, 2002 at 8:59:18 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Oh. I guess I’ve been thinking that since all poppies contain some degree of opiates, they are all governed the same.
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Brett Calabrese
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 9:03 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] genetic modification of poppy

Preston,

Growing “opium poppy”, having pods, opium poppy
straw… is STRICTLY ILLEGAL, it is listed in the
schedule of controlled substances (spelled out) –
viable seeds are legal.

Growing other poppies, even ones containing
morphine/codeine… is legal, extracting any of the
goodies isn’t. There are many kinds of poppies, the
ones in sold in dried flower shops in the US are not
likely to be opium poppy, that does not mean they
won’t have opiates in them, just a bit of a different
mix of alkaloids and typically, less morphine.

Brett
— preston peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
> As far as I know, the laws here in the US governing
> growing poppies are about the same, as are those
> governing their use. Growing is cool, using is not
> cool
>     One can also simply break apart the dried pods
> and boil those, easily obtained at some dried flower
> shops, for a nice, tranquil tea that won’t do all
> that much, but does do something. (Sometimes they
> have flecks of opium sap dried on their outer skin
> too.) Adding a Red Zinger tea bag, or even Earl
> Grey, helps the taste, as does sugar/honey.
>     Of course, did I just break The Law by
> explaining that?
> Peace,
> Preston
>   —– Original Message —–
>   From: Alison Senepart
>   To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>   Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 7:11 AM
>   Subject: Re: [ibogaine] genetic modification of
> poppy
>
>
>   In NZ a lot of people grow their own poppies or
> pinch other peoples cos they
>   can’t get heroin very easy and its lots and lots
> cheaper or costs nothing.
>   . The climate seems to suit them and they grow
> like weeds even >from a packet
>   of seeds from the supermaket.   I don’t know about
> other countries but its
>   legal to grow the opium poppies here but not to
> cut or use them. Its a very
>   raw product when baked over a kitchen stove and
> also lots rougher on the
>   system but affordability and availability have a
> lot to do with it.  There
>   is also a habit of boiling up poppy seeds and
> drinking them here but I’m not
>   so clued up with that one.  As far as I know it
> tastes revolting but
>   quietens the system from withdrawal and gives a
> degree of high.
>   —–Original Message—–
>   From: Dana Beal <cnw@calyx.net>
>   To: ibogaine@mindvox.com <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>   Date: Friday, 30 August 2002 10:57
>   Subject: [ibogaine] genetic modification of poppy
>
>
>   >
>   >Pubdate: Sat, 24 Aug 2002
>   >Source: Globe and Mail (Canada)
>   >Copyright: 2002, The Globe and Mail Company
>   >Contact: letters@globeandmail.ca
>   >Website: http://www.globeandmail.ca/
>   >Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/168
>   >Author: Dawn Walton
>   >Bookmark: http://www.mapinc.org/heroin.htm
> (Heroin)
>   >
>   >TO DEFANG THE POPPY’S KISS
>   >
>   >The opium poppy is the deadly cash crop of
> Afghanistan, with heroin profits
>   >going to fund terrorist groups. As DAWN WALTON
> reports, scientists in
>   >Calgary are attempting to alter the plant to
> produce only codeine, to offer
>   >farmers a safe, legal alternative to the opiate
> trade
>   >
>   >By DAWN WALTON
>   >
>   >In Afghanistan and Myanmar, the world’s two
> leading producers of opium
>   >poppies destined for the illicit heroin trade,
> officials show how seriously
>   >they take the war on drugs by seizing plants and
> burning them publicly.
>   >
>   >In Canada, the battle is being fought in the lab.
>   >
>   >Researchers at the University of Calgary are
> trying to genetically modify
>   >opium poppies, scientifically known as Papaver
> somniferum, to make them
>   more
>   >virile in the production of codeine, but at the
> same time render them
>   >impotent in the creation of morphine, the key
> ingredient in heroin.
>   >
>   >URL:
> http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v02.n1573.a01.html
>   >
>   >——————————
>   >
>   >
>
>
>
>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] genetic modification of poppy
Date: August 30, 2002 at 9:03:52 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston,

Growing “opium poppy”, having pods, opium poppy
straw… is STRICTLY ILLEGAL, it is listed in the
schedule of controlled substances (spelled out) –
viable seeds are legal.

Growing other poppies, even ones containing
morphine/codeine… is legal, extracting any of the
goodies isn’t. There are many kinds of poppies, the
ones in sold in dried flower shops in the US are not
likely to be opium poppy, that does not mean they
won’t have opiates in them, just a bit of a different
mix of alkaloids and typically, less morphine.

Brett
— preston peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
As far as I know, the laws here in the US governing
growing poppies are about the same, as are those
governing their use. Growing is cool, using is not
cool
One can also simply break apart the dried pods
and boil those, easily obtained at some dried flower
shops, for a nice, tranquil tea that won’t do all
that much, but does do something. (Sometimes they
have flecks of opium sap dried on their outer skin
too.) Adding a Red Zinger tea bag, or even Earl
Grey, helps the taste, as does sugar/honey.
Of course, did I just break The Law by
explaining that?
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Alison Senepart
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 7:11 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] genetic modification of
poppy

In NZ a lot of people grow their own poppies or
pinch other peoples cos they
can’t get heroin very easy and its lots and lots
cheaper or costs nothing.
. The climate seems to suit them and they grow
like weeds even from a packet
of seeds from the supermaket.   I don’t know about
other countries but its
legal to grow the opium poppies here but not to
cut or use them. Its a very
raw product when baked over a kitchen stove and
also lots rougher on the
system but affordability and availability have a
lot to do with it.  There
is also a habit of boiling up poppy seeds and
drinking them here but I’m not
so clued up with that one.  As far as I know it
tastes revolting but
quietens the system from withdrawal and gives a
degree of high.
—–Original Message—–
From: Dana Beal <cnw@calyx.net>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Date: Friday, 30 August 2002 10:57
Subject: [ibogaine] genetic modification of poppy

Pubdate: Sat, 24 Aug 2002
Source: Globe and Mail (Canada)
Copyright: 2002, The Globe and Mail Company
Contact: letters@globeandmail.ca
Website: http://www.globeandmail.ca/
Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/168
Author: Dawn Walton
Bookmark: http://www.mapinc.org/heroin.htm
(Heroin)

TO DEFANG THE POPPY’S KISS

The opium poppy is the deadly cash crop of
Afghanistan, with heroin profits
going to fund terrorist groups. As DAWN WALTON
reports, scientists in
Calgary are attempting to alter the plant to
produce only codeine, to offer
farmers a safe, legal alternative to the opiate
trade

By DAWN WALTON

In Afghanistan and Myanmar, the world’s two
leading producers of opium
poppies destined for the illicit heroin trade,
officials show how seriously
they take the war on drugs by seizing plants and
burning them publicly.

In Canada, the battle is being fought in the lab.

Researchers at the University of Calgary are
trying to genetically modify
opium poppies, scientifically known as Papaver
somniferum, to make them
more
virile in the production of codeine, but at the
same time render them
impotent in the creation of morphine, the key
ingredient in heroin.

URL:
http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v02.n1573.a01.html

——————————

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] genetic modification of poppy
Date: August 30, 2002 at 8:47:12 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I had a client once who was a 120 Mg. methadone drinker that related
this same information.  He indicated that when he was without dope, he
was able to avoid withdrawal symptoms with this method.  He would take a
large amount, throw them through the coffee griner or blender, and then
cold-soak the whole mess for a few days (he reported that he always had
a jar on hand for times of need).  When he was without, he would slug
the whole mess down.

BTW, you broke the law…the thought police and information censors
will be pounding at your door at any moment.

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com 08/30/02 08:16AM >>>
As far as I know, the laws here in the US governing growing poppies are
about the same, as are those governing their use. Growing is cool, using
is not cool
One can also simply break apart the dried pods and boil those,
easily obtained at some dried flower shops, for a nice, tranquil tea
that won’t do all that much, but does do something. (Sometimes they have
flecks of opium sap dried on their outer skin too.) Adding a Red Zinger
tea bag, or even Earl Grey, helps the taste, as does sugar/honey.
Of course, did I just break The Law by explaining that?
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Alison Senepart
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 7:11 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] genetic modification of poppy

In NZ a lot of people grow their own poppies or pinch other peoples
cos they
can’t get heroin very easy and its lots and lots cheaper or costs
nothing.
. The climate seems to suit them and they grow like weeds even from a
packet
of seeds from the supermaket.   I don’t know about other countries
but its
legal to grow the opium poppies here but not to cut or use them. Its
a very
raw product when baked over a kitchen stove and also lots rougher on
the
system but affordability and availability have a lot to do with it.
There
is also a habit of boiling up poppy seeds and drinking them here but
I’m not
so clued up with that one.  As far as I know it tastes revolting but
quietens the system from withdrawal and gives a degree of high.
—–Original Message—–
From: Dana Beal <cnw@calyx.net>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Date: Friday, 30 August 2002 10:57
Subject: [ibogaine] genetic modification of poppy

Pubdate: Sat, 24 Aug 2002
Source: Globe and Mail (Canada)
Copyright: 2002, The Globe and Mail Company
Contact: letters@globeandmail.ca
Website: http://www.globeandmail.ca/
Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/168
Author: Dawn Walton
Bookmark: http://www.mapinc.org/heroin.htm (Heroin)

TO DEFANG THE POPPY’S KISS

The opium poppy is the deadly cash crop of Afghanistan, with heroin
profits
going to fund terrorist groups. As DAWN WALTON reports, scientists
in
Calgary are attempting to alter the plant to produce only codeine,
to offer
farmers a safe, legal alternative to the opiate trade

By DAWN WALTON

In Afghanistan and Myanmar, the world’s two leading producers of
opium
poppies destined for the illicit heroin trade, officials show how
seriously
they take the war on drugs by seizing plants and burning them
publicly.

In Canada, the battle is being fought in the lab.

Researchers at the University of Calgary are trying to genetically
modify
opium poppies, scientifically known as Papaver somniferum, to make
them
more
virile in the production of codeine, but at the same time render
them
impotent in the creation of morphine, the key ingredient in heroin.

URL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v02.n1573.a01.html

——————————

From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] free antidepressant
Date: August 30, 2002 at 8:36:44 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I can only imagine.  Reminds me of a guy that used to work for our
organization.  He was into boxing, karate, etc.  He woke up about 2 or 3
am and couldn’t get back to sleep.  So he decided to make the best of
it.  Went outside and was shadow-boxing and practicing his forms in his
own front yard…someone calls the cops…they show up and bug him for
30-45 minutes, getting in his face with flashlights, asking him what he
was using, etc.  Then they advised him that he needed to go back inside
or practice in his back-yard…OR THEY’D ARREST HIM for creating a
distrubance, being a public nuisance, or some other crock of BS.

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com 08/30/02 07:15AM >>>
LOL! Brilliant!
I can just picture it, a group of people standing in a public park
laughing uproariously to themselves for 15 minutes…hmmm…wonder what
the NYPD would do? “Hey, we got this group of people have a group
psychosis…send the paddy wagon.”
Still, what a great idea.
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: sara glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 5:14 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] free antidepressant

Free antidepressant ,

everymorning in the Vondelpark in Amsterdam , there is a group of
people

having a laugh therapy for depression ,

they just stand there for 15 minutes and laugh as hard as they can ,

then the go home happy again , that’s really free and anybody can do
it ,

just start and  look at the clock for 15 min. a day .

good luck,

Sara

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] genetic modification of poppy
Date: August 30, 2002 at 8:16:22 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

As far as I know, the laws here in the US governing growing poppies are about the same, as are those governing their use. Growing is cool, using is not cool
One can also simply break apart the dried pods and boil those, easily obtained at some dried flower shops, for a nice, tranquil tea that won’t do all that much, but does do something. (Sometimes they have flecks of opium sap dried on their outer skin too.) Adding a Red Zinger tea bag, or even Earl Grey, helps the taste, as does sugar/honey.
Of course, did I just break The Law by explaining that?
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Alison Senepart
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 7:11 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] genetic modification of poppy

In NZ a lot of people grow their own poppies or pinch other peoples cos they
can’t get heroin very easy and its lots and lots cheaper or costs nothing.
. The climate seems to suit them and they grow like weeds even from a packet
of seeds from the supermaket.   I don’t know about other countries but its
legal to grow the opium poppies here but not to cut or use them. Its a very
raw product when baked over a kitchen stove and also lots rougher on the
system but affordability and availability have a lot to do with it.  There
is also a habit of boiling up poppy seeds and drinking them here but I’m not
so clued up with that one.  As far as I know it tastes revolting but
quietens the system from withdrawal and gives a degree of high.
—–Original Message—–
From: Dana Beal <cnw@calyx.net>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Date: Friday, 30 August 2002 10:57
Subject: [ibogaine] genetic modification of poppy

>
>Pubdate: Sat, 24 Aug 2002
>Source: Globe and Mail (Canada)
>Copyright: 2002, The Globe and Mail Company
>Contact: letters@globeandmail.ca
>Website: http://www.globeandmail.ca/
>Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/168
>Author: Dawn Walton
>Bookmark: http://www.mapinc.org/heroin.htm (Heroin)
>
>TO DEFANG THE POPPY’S KISS
>
>The opium poppy is the deadly cash crop of Afghanistan, with heroin profits
>going to fund terrorist groups. As DAWN WALTON reports, scientists in
>Calgary are attempting to alter the plant to produce only codeine, to offer
>farmers a safe, legal alternative to the opiate trade
>
>By DAWN WALTON
>
>In Afghanistan and Myanmar, the world’s two leading producers of opium
>poppies destined for the illicit heroin trade, officials show how seriously
>they take the war on drugs by seizing plants and burning them publicly.
>
>In Canada, the battle is being fought in the lab.
>
>Researchers at the University of Calgary are trying to genetically modify
>opium poppies, scientifically known as Papaver somniferum, to make them
more
>virile in the production of codeine, but at the same time render them
>impotent in the creation of morphine, the key ingredient in heroin.
>
>URL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v02.n1573.a01.html
>
>——————————
>
>

From: Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si>
Subject: [ibogaine] Missing friend
Date: August 30, 2002 at 7:56:53 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: ibogaine@lists.calyx.nl
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi to all,

this is off topic, but I just learned that a friend of mine vanished in Pakistan, and I’d like to ask anyone of you (especially if you’re in Pakistan or have someone there) to help. Details are here: http://www.parakrilec-drustvo.si/toni_rutar_missing.htm

Thank you for your help,
Marko

From: “Alison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] genetic modification of poppy
Date: August 30, 2002 at 7:11:23 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In NZ a lot of people grow their own poppies or pinch other peoples cos they
can’t get heroin very easy and its lots and lots cheaper or costs nothing.
. The climate seems to suit them and they grow like weeds even from a packet
of seeds from the supermaket.   I don’t know about other countries but its
legal to grow the opium poppies here but not to cut or use them. Its a very
raw product when baked over a kitchen stove and also lots rougher on the
system but affordability and availability have a lot to do with it.  There
is also a habit of boiling up poppy seeds and drinking them here but I’m not
so clued up with that one.  As far as I know it tastes revolting but
quietens the system from withdrawal and gives a degree of high.
—–Original Message—–
From: Dana Beal <cnw@calyx.net>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Date: Friday, 30 August 2002 10:57
Subject: [ibogaine] genetic modification of poppy

Pubdate: Sat, 24 Aug 2002
Source: Globe and Mail (Canada)
Copyright: 2002, The Globe and Mail Company
Contact: letters@globeandmail.ca
Website: http://www.globeandmail.ca/
Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/168
Author: Dawn Walton
Bookmark: http://www.mapinc.org/heroin.htm (Heroin)

TO DEFANG THE POPPY’S KISS

The opium poppy is the deadly cash crop of Afghanistan, with heroin profits
going to fund terrorist groups. As DAWN WALTON reports, scientists in
Calgary are attempting to alter the plant to produce only codeine, to offer
farmers a safe, legal alternative to the opiate trade

By DAWN WALTON

In Afghanistan and Myanmar, the world’s two leading producers of opium
poppies destined for the illicit heroin trade, officials show how seriously
they take the war on drugs by seizing plants and burning them publicly.

In Canada, the battle is being fought in the lab.

Researchers at the University of Calgary are trying to genetically modify
opium poppies, scientifically known as Papaver somniferum, to make them
more
virile in the production of codeine, but at the same time render them
impotent in the creation of morphine, the key ingredient in heroin.

URL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v02.n1573.a01.html

——————————

From: “Alison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine better then any other detox?
Date: August 30, 2002 at 7:00:35 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thats the worst bit, lack of energy I reckon.   It just destroys you.  My only option was to give up and stay in bed lots and rest lots but am not sure if that is what your supposed to do.  Anyways its worked for me so I just put lots of things aside as unimportant in the scheme of things and I had a really good friend who helped me out.  Have you got someone like that???    Whats your doctor doing??? surely he can help you out a bit more perhaps.   I know Clonidine is suipposed to stop the sweats etc. but am not sure of the others you are on.
Maybe if you are so miserable think about taking a small amount of methadone and dropping it a ml or so every day or couple of days just to give yourself a bit of a break.   Its all very well dealing with physical effects but its also the emotional and mental effects that drive you crazy;
Good luck….Allison
—–Original Message—–
From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com <Mzzthangg13@aol.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Date: Friday, 30 August 2002 04:57
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine better then any other detox?

hi, ibogaine is not a cure believe me…..it just is way better than cold turkey…….and unfortunately for me it did not help with cravings…..i shot dope 1 time..than was taking all at once xanax,codine,vicodin,klonopins,phenoebarbital..and now i feel like shit cause i stopped them.the only meds i take are clonodine,trazadone,seroquiil……so now i am suffering big time cause i cannot afford a 2nd treatment of ibogaine……..it’s not bad as cold turkey but i have no energy. I’m just here that’d it………..

From: “Alison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] free antidepressant
Date: August 30, 2002 at 6:51:23 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Am not sure about St Johns Wart.  some people recommend and others disagree.
Perhaps it depends on individual body chemistry, something I reckon has lots
to do with individual addictions and to any particular drugs, alcohol etc.
They say animals are a real boost to emotional behaviour, especially people
who have a tendancy to depression or elderly people.  Not that you may be
either, just trying to state the positive side of animals.  I also reckon
its about comfort and being needed that gives a purpose to being here.  And
yes;, my cat sleeps on the bed with me and the dogs would too but then there
would be no room for me anymore so they have their own baskets and
sheepskins ………..Allison
—–Original Message—–
From: Rick Venglarcik <RickV@hnncsb.org>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Date: Friday, 30 August 2002 05:22
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] free antidepressant

..and a study in the American Journal of Psychiatry (159:1361-1366)
indicated that a double-blind, placebo-controlled study found that SJW
extract WS5570 was more effective than placebo in “treatment of mild to
moderate depression.”  So go figure.  Looks like the jury is still out.
Anecdotally, I’ve seen a number of patients here with significant
improvement of depression with SJW…and others…no effect.

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

jhoneycutt@qwest.net 08/28/02 10:42PM >>>
At 05:56 PM 8/28/2002 -0700, you wrote:

Here’s a free antidepressant that e.g. covers over 500,000 acres
of Montana:

http://www.mtweed.org/Identification/st__john_s_wort/st__john_s_wort.html

Bill Ross

I don’t want to start a war, but on the news about 4 to 6 weeks ago,
results of a large St. John’s Wort, double blind scientific study was
released.  It showed that it had no effect on depression what so ever.

Someone could probably look up the journal article and list the
citation
for all of us.  Then we can read it and pick it apart.  But for my
money, I
think it is not effective at all.

But please note that my cat sleeping in bed with me, lessens my
migraines.
That has never been proven in any scientific study. So to each, his or
her own.

Peace,

jack in Portland Oregon

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] free antidepressant
Date: August 30, 2002 at 7:15:38 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

LOL! Brilliant!
I can just picture it, a group of people standing in a public park laughing uproariously to themselves for 15 minutes…hmmm…wonder what the NYPD would do? “Hey, we got this group of people have a group psychosis…send the paddy wagon.”
Still, what a great idea.
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: sara glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 5:14 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] free antidepressant

Free antidepressant ,

everymorning in the Vondelpark in Amsterdam , there is a group of people

having a laugh therapy for depression ,

they just stand there for 15 minutes and laugh as hard as they can ,

then the go home happy again , that’s really free and anybody can do it ,

just start and  look at the clock for 15 min. a day .

good luck,

Sara

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] genetic modification of poppy
Date: August 30, 2002 at 6:29:24 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I could swear, reading Licit and Illicit Drugs at the moment, that all poppies produce both codeine and heroin.
I’m also reading that it wasn’t up until the early 70s, perhaps very late 60s, that England first tried the US methods of prohibition, instead of simply supplying addicts with dope, which of course, lead to the very same problems the US was facing for decades. IN the beginning, after the Harrison Act passed, England took a good, hard look at what the US had done, CREATING THOUSANDS OF ADDICTS with their insane prohibition laws, and said, Uh, uh, no way, we don’t want that.” Something happened though in the 60, when Brit papers started taking the US-shill line, “oh my gosh, look at that huge increase of addicts, (when they really only had around 4000 or so legally registered there), let’s CRACK DOWN on those loosers.” Sigh.
What a depressing book. Who died and left the prohibitionists in charge of the Earth?
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Brett Calabrese
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 12:30 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] genetic modification of poppy

Didn’t anyone tell these folks you can also make
heroin out of codeine AND there are already flavors of
poppy that produce codeine.

Am I missing something here or is it just another
“bright idea” from the war on drugs folks? So, what
exactly are they trying to accomplish?  (that of
course won’t work anyway).

Brett

>
> The opium poppy is the deadly cash crop of
> Afghanistan, with heroin profits
> going to fund terrorist groups. As DAWN WALTON
> reports, scientists in
> Calgary are attempting to alter the plant to produce
> only codeine, to offer
> farmers a safe, legal alternative to the opiate
> trade
>
> By DAWN WALTON
>
> In Afghanistan and Myanmar, the world’s two leading
> producers of opium
> poppies destined for the illicit heroin trade,
> officials show how seriously
> they take the war on drugs by seizing plants and
> burning them publicly.
>
> In Canada, the battle is being fought in the lab.
>
> Researchers at the University of Calgary are trying
> to genetically modify
> opium poppies, scientifically known as Papaver
> somniferum, to make them more
> virile in the production of codeine, but at the same
> time render them
> impotent in the creation of morphine, the key
> ingredient in heroin.
>
> URL:
> http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v02.n1573.a01.html
>
> ——————————
>
>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

From: “sara glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] free antidepressant
Date: August 30, 2002 at 5:14:14 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Free antidepressant ,

everymorning in the Vondelpark in Amsterdam , there is a group of people

having a laugh therapy for depression ,

they just stand there for 15 minutes and laugh as hard as they can ,

then the go home happy again , that’s really free and anybody can do it ,

just start and  look at the clock for 15 min. a day .

good luck,

Sara

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] genetic modification of poppy
Date: August 30, 2002 at 12:30:57 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Didn’t anyone tell these folks you can also make
heroin out of codeine AND there are already flavors of
poppy that produce codeine.

Am I missing something here or is it just another
“bright idea” from the war on drugs folks? So, what
exactly are they trying to accomplish?  (that of
course won’t work anyway).

Brett

The opium poppy is the deadly cash crop of
Afghanistan, with heroin profits
going to fund terrorist groups. As DAWN WALTON
reports, scientists in
Calgary are attempting to alter the plant to produce
only codeine, to offer
farmers a safe, legal alternative to the opiate
trade

By DAWN WALTON

In Afghanistan and Myanmar, the world’s two leading
producers of opium
poppies destined for the illicit heroin trade,
officials show how seriously
they take the war on drugs by seizing plants and
burning them publicly.

In Canada, the battle is being fought in the lab.

Researchers at the University of Calgary are trying
to genetically modify
opium poppies, scientifically known as Papaver
somniferum, to make them more
virile in the production of codeine, but at the same
time render them
impotent in the creation of morphine, the key
ingredient in heroin.

URL:
http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v02.n1573.a01.html

——————————

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] genetic modification of poppy
Date: August 29, 2002 at 8:24:53 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Researchers at the University of Calgary are trying to genetically modify
opium poppies, scientifically known as Papaver somniferum, to make them more
virile in the production of codeine, but at the same time render them
impotent in the creation of morphine, the key ingredient in heroin.

Oh NO! Thats TERRIBLE NEWS!

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] you
Date: August 29, 2002 at 8:15:59 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hey brothah,

loud and clear.

try these addresses:

dh@gammalyte.com
gammalyte9000@yahoo.com
strappler@yahoo.com (rarely check this one)

-Dave

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

From: Rhafner77@cs.com
Subject: [ibogaine] you
Date: August 29, 2002 at 7:46:14 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

het david, lemme know if this gets to ya`, I`ve been trying to email yuh forever, they keep bouncing bak
larry-

From: Dana Beal <cnw@calyx.net>
Subject: [ibogaine] genetic modification of poppy
Date: August 29, 2002 at 6:54:07 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Pubdate: Sat, 24 Aug 2002
Source: Globe and Mail (Canada)
Copyright: 2002, The Globe and Mail Company
Contact: letters@globeandmail.ca
Website: http://www.globeandmail.ca/
Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/168
Author: Dawn Walton
Bookmark: http://www.mapinc.org/heroin.htm (Heroin)

TO DEFANG THE POPPY’S KISS

The opium poppy is the deadly cash crop of Afghanistan, with heroin profits
going to fund terrorist groups. As DAWN WALTON reports, scientists in
Calgary are attempting to alter the plant to produce only codeine, to offer
farmers a safe, legal alternative to the opiate trade

By DAWN WALTON

In Afghanistan and Myanmar, the world’s two leading producers of opium
poppies destined for the illicit heroin trade, officials show how seriously
they take the war on drugs by seizing plants and burning them publicly.

In Canada, the battle is being fought in the lab.

Researchers at the University of Calgary are trying to genetically modify
opium poppies, scientifically known as Papaver somniferum, to make them more
virile in the production of codeine, but at the same time render them
impotent in the creation of morphine, the key ingredient in heroin.

URL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v02.n1573.a01.html

——————————

From: Pinky White <uselessaccount25@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] DEAR JOSE
Date: August 29, 2002 at 2:16:21 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

D34R J0S3

3Y3 W00D L!K3 2 P0!NT 0U+ TH4T J00 R 0WN3D, BEEYATCH

SSSSSSSL8Z

SINCERELY, 2 3L33T 4 J00

Thu, 29 Aug 2002 06:07:41 +0300

http://tager.org/mail.com/

iName/Mail.com security holes opens door to millions
of e-mail accounts

Millions of free Internet e-mail accounts provided
by iName/MAIL.COM service are vulnerable to a major
security
breach that allow to change account information
including password hint/answer as result a password
too.

The breach work via special email message constaining
javascript
code in html file attachment.
In case if user will open this email in web mail
interface
this code will redirect user browser to evil site.
This site will redirect it back to mail.com page
changing account information.
Because login session cookies are still valid, account
information will be changed.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine article which is a letter
Date: August 29, 2002 at 1:34:06 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Vector what are you talking about what is alias??

I said all this before already! I never said Patrick
should start filling up Mindvox with dippy recovery
junk. I just said he should be Patrick a little more
often about ibogaine and his version of recovery.

A good thing might be turning that letter into a
article and putting it on Mindvox where a lot more
people will see it.

I’m going to stop going on about this because I’ve
said it already and saying it 10 more times isn’t
going to make anyone change their minds or do
anything, but that is my whole point. It’s a great
letter, where is it, it’s on a lot of blogs all over
the place because Dana Beal published it in his
newsletter and they liked it and spread it everywhere.

It’s not on Mindvox. Where is ibogaine anything
Patrick has ever written. Where it’s not is on
Mindvox. Not one single piece of ibogaine related
writing Patrick has ever done is on Mindvox.

That was what I was saying. Was saying because I’m
getting off the topic of asking or as some here have
accused me, telling someone else what they should do.

Carla B

— vector6@space.com wrote:

This really will be my last letter. PLEASE PLEASE
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE alias me.
vector@mindvox.com ok?
PLEASEPLEASEPLEASEPLEASEPLEASE.

These are starting to pop up all over google. If you
skip google and go to blog stat sites something
really
weird is happening with your letter that is not a
article. It’s finding a bigger audience then every
other piece of ibogaine related anything anyone has
ever written. Including you.

Giving you more opinions and reasons why kenrkappel
and
mrmittens hit higher then ibogaine anything, you
should
know all this already considering what you do with
mindvox. Do more of what you do with mindvox, with
ibogaine.

Your sarcastic, funny, bullshit free personal email
about ibogaine is spreading and being cross blogged
all
over. People who are not addicts are reading it and
finding it interesting instead of clicking to the
next
page.

Fruit loop spiritual warriors take note.

.:vector:.

http://involution.org/anodyne/comments/26_July_2002-0.html

YOU SAID IT
Monde (@: %MCI email not defined.%) (url: %MCI url
not
defined.%) yakked on 26 July 2002:

Bill St. Clair, creator of one of my favourite
blogs,
End the War on Freedom, sends us notice of a letter
he
received from Patrick Kroupa, describing an ibogaine
success story.

Ibogaine, the extract of the Tabernathe iboga root
native to Africa, has been cited as a psychotropic
treatment for opiate addiction that has shifted some
addicts off heroin, methadone and/or pain meds.

Unlike most writings on the subject found at Cures
Not
Wars, a harm-reduction site dedicated to ibogaine, I
found this to be refreshingly clear of the sort of
florid spiritualism most ibogaine devotees seem to
find
an essential aspect of the treatment. He points out
that what ibogaine did for him was essentially “do a
reset on the brain” and convince him his addiction
was
not hardwired, as he believed it to be.

He points out that it is not a cure. He claimed that
it
just gave him his ability to decide again.

Naturally, since it’s a psychotropic, it’s not legal
in
this country. Sigh.

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From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine better then any other detox?
Date: August 29, 2002 at 3:28:01 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jose said;

“I am just not seeing any miracles taking place”

I see them all the time, every day when I look in the
mirror for one thing, here is one for you.

– from the ibogaine.org list posted today

He was originally on 250 mg of meth and came down to
40-50 mg before treating himself with Indra as
suggested – seems this fellow is taking suggestions…
Humm, I wonder if that will have any effect (taking
suggestions) <g>.

“Took it 6 days ago and almost chalked for severe
vommitting seizers.  UNFORNUTALY I COULD N’T GO SLEEP
SO i DID NOT HAVE NICE DREAMS , BUT I DID NOT USE MY
METHADONE WHICH HAD BEEN AVAILABLE ALL THE TIME OF THE
THRERAPY. CONCLUSION: IBOGAIN WORKED. ON THE 3rd AND
5th DAY TOOK 1 GRAMM AGAIN AND RELEIVED MY CRAVING.
tHANKS FOR YOUR HELP.”
cSABA

OR do you know a better medication that you can detox
and remove cravings from meth from which also works on
alcohol, coke, speed, any opiate or any addictive
substance??? Show me, I am all ears.

Brett

— Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com> wrote:
Jose,

I guess you missed it along with most of the medical
community.

I have had PROFOUND life changes due to ibogaine,
for
one thing I would likely be worm food if I didn’t
find
it.

“‘I took ibogaine and had no more
desire to take any drugs’ which is a prominent
quote
in the Ibogaine Story Staten Island Project. Not
one
has said anything close to that.

I have, maybe you have to go back more than 4
months.

Also, ibogaine is some real funny stuff. For
instance
there is NO treatment out there that an addict gets,
then relapses, then quits. Ibogaine alters how a
human
responds to drugs, their desire for drugs – it does
not take away the disease, just the physical
addiction
(or most of it) and most if not all the cravings. It
is not the fault of the ibogaine if someone has no
physical addiction and no cravings but goes back out
and uses – they do it all the time, they are
addicts.
I just quit smoking cigarettes (2 months now). I had
taken ibo about a week earlier with no direct
intention of quitting smoking (yeah, it was always
on
my list though…), a week later, POOF, I put them
down for good. And I gotta say, I must have been the
calmest person who ever quit smoking, my mood
improved, save for some of those magic “moments”.

So, if it helps you “I took ibogaine and had no more
desire to take any drugs”. Was that 100%, 100% of
the
time, no but it was a whole lot better than wanting
drugs 100%, 100% of the time. Right after treatment,
sure I didn’t want to put any nasty substance in my
body, tobacco was nasty, coffee tasted bad –
anything
bad, was bad. In time it faded, as is pretty
standard,
the ibo-glow left over some months and I needed more

which I did. I am clean, do take some pain meds –
for
which I have had a rather unexpected side effect, I
dislike taking them, they feel bad (mostly). I
measure
my success by my standards, so I am not “drug free”
however for the first time in my life I an addicted
to
nothing (almost, still chewing some nicorette, that
WILL end), no alcohol, no opiates (though I do take
some, WAY less than prescribed), nothin.

Ibogaine is by far the best IMO.

You are not impressed, don’t try it.

Brett

writer, a interesting person. I am going to use
one
quote which I found nearly perfect which comes
from
a subscriber to one of your mindvox lists.
‘Patrick
is what would happen if someone pushed William
Burroughs into a swimming pool filled with LSD’
You
have a great deal to say which is very
interesting,
this entire Mindvox site you have here I have no
idea what it means but it looks to be extremely
popular. I have no doubt that in 5 or 10 years
I’ll
be able to go to the movie theatre and see a movie
about your life.

I don’t know who or what you are exactly but it’s
not normal. I don’t know what normal means either
but let me say that you are different then most
addicts I’ve dealt with and leave it at that.

Most if not all of the people who write to this
list
who have written about their life changing
experiences with ibogaine fall into the same
category. They are not the norm.

From the Dr. Mash crowd there is nearly noone who
has ever written anything here. There are 3 or 4
at
most who look like they say something every few
months, ad in a lot of resentment and anger and
then
leave. I don’t know if that is them, all wealthy
people on drugs or just the few who write anything
here. But it’s not very impressive.

From the Mexico crowd, I’m not sure who detoxed
there but from the two in the last month. Neither
one is what I would call a great success story.
This
in no way means disrespect for their efforts I
don’t
know Rick’s patient or why he only lasted a few
days
after the detox and Karina is obviously
struggling.

What I can say is neither case is very impressive
or
speaks much about why ibogaine is better then any
other detox.

I see people struggling to maintain sobriety. I
see
people who should not be taking ibogaine in the
first place dying. I see I high level of
intelligence in the main ‘clique’ of ibogaine
supporters here, but I see absolutely nothing that
sets this group apart from any other group of
addicts trying to remain sober. I don’t see any
great life changing experiences being posted here.

The most positive experience I think I have read
from this list comes from Curtis who wasn’t even
on
any drugs at the time he took it.

I have seen nothing at all that resembles the life
changing ibogaine experiences that Howard recounts
of early experiments with ibogaine on the
ibogaine.org web site and in the book that is
online
Cures not Wars. The closest thing you have to that
is Patrick and once more no disrespect, but I have
read Mindvox. You are gifted and you’re not the
norm. You also look like you’ve followed up
ibogaine
with about a gallon of LSD and who knows how many
other psychedelics.

If ibogaine is the solution to drug addiction,
then
I think all of you need to go back to the drawing
board. I have to admit that nobody here has ever
said that it did not detox them. I give you that.
But what happens to all these people afterwards is
about average and no better or worse then any
other
drug treatment being offered today.

Is there something I overlooked? Is there some
difference between how people respond to ibogaine
now instead of 20 years ago? Is the ibogaine a
different quality?

I took a lot of time to write my thoughts I don’t
write long messages or type fast. I am not putting
anyone down I see very intelligent people, I see
kind people trying to help each other. I don’t
have
anything very negative to say except I am just not
seeing any miracles taking place.

And including even Patrick into this, not one of
you
has ever said ‘I took ibogaine and had no more
desire to take any drugs’ which is a prominent
quote
in the Ibogaine Story Staten Island Project. Not
one
has said anything close to that.

Sincerely, Jose Merina

__________________________________________________________
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From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Patrick jived
Date: August 29, 2002 at 1:15:32 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Vector. I usually enjoy reading what you have to
say and think you’re smart and mature for someone who
is 18. But when you start uploading stupid jive’d
versions of everything that feeling goes away and
makes me remember that you’re an 18 year old 😉

Please stop that. I thought jive was so funny when I
first saw it.

That feeling will pass after a day or two. Trust me.

Carla B

— vector6@space.com wrote:

The very last message I will ever post from my email
account. It’s dying tonight, have I mentioned that?
Does anyone on mindvox want to give me a alias?

Congrats Patrick, being jived makes your rants no
more
or less readable, funny, unfunny, coherent or
incoherent. You are jive proof. I don’t know if
thats a
compliment, insult, or ticket back to a mental
hospital.

Goodbye my mail is dying tonight. Did I mention
that?

.:vector:.

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] test
Date: August 29, 2002 at 2:28:11 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Thu, Aug 29, 2002 at 11:37:13AM -0700], [Gamma] wrote:

| testING |

Yahoo mail spools appear to be experiencing teknical difficulties and
mailing through a timewarp.

Patrick

From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] test
Date: August 29, 2002 at 2:37:13 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

test

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
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From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine better then any other detox?
Date: August 29, 2002 at 1:57:59 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Rick you are so right the only way is to suffer to get clean…i did ibogaine in July and then relapsed on pills…so I’m kicking the pills cold turkey except for trazadone,clonodine and seroquil…..it feels like i will never be the same not cause of the ibogaine i wish i could afford another treatment..then i think i would be fine….just cannot afford it……so like i said suffer that’s all Karina JM

From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine better then any other detox?
Date: August 29, 2002 at 1:52:07 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

An excellent response, but the comments on the search for a magic bullet
gave me pause.  The concept of a Magic Bullet makes for good media, but
those in the treatment profession and self-help crowd “know” that there
isn’t any magic bullet out there.  Leshner, NIDA, et.al.,  tell us there
isn’t a magic bullet. Few people involved in the field actually believe
there is a magic bullet treatment addiction out there somewhere.  My
response is “says who?”  What is this idea based on?  Why can’t there be
a Magic Bullet?  Or BulletS!

Hell, let’s throw the term…maybe the magic bullet is 5…10…15 (or
more) slugs of a medication, or a combination of drugs which effectuate
beneficial neurological adaptation.  If regular use of various “illicit”
molecules alters neural function and produces addiction, why is it not
believed to be possible that the occasional…or regular…use of other
molecules can reset the cytoarchitecture back to “normal”…or a
semblance of  “normal?”

At one time, ADD was poorly understood and ineffectively treated.
Magic Bullets:  Amphetamines.  Schizophrenia: give them Haldol and
Cogentin.  Major, Chronic Depression: SSRI medications.

Not trying to rant here, just want to encourage folks to “think outside
the box.”

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

sandberg@onetel.net.uk 08/29/02 04:26PM >>>

—– Original Message —–
From: Jose Merina <josemerina@usa.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 2:45 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Ibogaine better then any other detox?

After reading this list for nearly 4 months and being interested in
what
ibogaine can do for drug addiction I offer the following comments
without
intending to disrespect anyone.

Patrick, you’re a very intelligent person, a good writer, a
interesting
person. I am going to use one quote which I found nearly perfect which
comes
from a subscriber to one of your mindvox lists. ‘Patrick is what would
happen if someone pushed William Burroughs into a swimming pool filled
with
LSD’ You have a great deal to say which is very interesting, this
entire
Mindvox site you have here I have no idea what it means but it looks to
be
extremely popular. I have no doubt that in 5 or 10 years I’ll be able
to go
to the movie theatre and see a movie about your life.

I don’t know who or what you are exactly but it’s not normal. I don’t
know
what normal means either but let me say that you are different then
most
addicts I’ve dealt with and leave it at that.

Most if not all of the people who write to this list who have
written
about their life changing experiences with ibogaine fall into the same
category. They are not the norm.

From the Dr. Mash crowd there is nearly noone who has ever written
anything here. There are 3 or 4 at most who look like they say
something
every few months, ad in a lot of resentment and anger and then leave.
I
don’t know if that is them, all wealthy people on drugs or just the few
who
write anything here. But it’s not very impressive.

From the Mexico crowd, I’m not sure who detoxed there but from the
two in
the last month. Neither one is what I would call a great success story.
This
in no way means disrespect for their efforts I don’t know Rick’s
patient or
why he only lasted a few days after the detox and Karina is obviously
struggling.

What I can say is neither case is very impressive or speaks much
about why
ibogaine is better then any other detox.

I see people struggling to maintain sobriety. I see people who should
not
be taking ibogaine in the first place dying. I see I high level of
intelligence in the main ‘clique’ of ibogaine supporters here, but I
see
absolutely nothing that sets this group apart from any other group of
addicts trying to remain sober. I don’t see any great life changing
experiences being posted here.

The most positive experience I think I have read from this list comes
from
Curtis who wasn’t even on any drugs at the time he took it.

I have seen nothing at all that resembles the life changing ibogaine
experiences that Howard recounts of early experiments with ibogaine on
the
ibogaine.org web site and in the book that is online Cures not Wars.
The
closest thing you have to that is Patrick and once more no disrespect,
but I
have read Mindvox. You are gifted and you’re not the norm. You also
look
like you’ve followed up ibogaine with about a gallon of LSD and who
knows
how many other psychedelics.

If ibogaine is the solution to drug addiction, then I think all of
you
need to go back to the drawing board.

Hi Jose,

I have to stick in a couple of comments here. I don’t think anyone is
responsibly suggesting that ibogaine is THE SOLUTION to drug
addiction.

It is not only quite meaningless to go on about “solutions” or “cures”
for
addiction, from both the neurological or psychological paradigms, but
also
totally counterproductive with regard to getting anything to ever
change for
addicts.

Aside of right-wing, “final solution” -type solutions, there is NO
SOLUTION
for addiction and NO CURE. All that happens when people talk about
this
stuff, especially in the media, is that highly potentially viable
treatment
possibilities, such as ibogaine, end up getting sidelined and the
public
misinformed, viz – because ibogaine isn’t a cure it shouldn’t be
researched
or developed. If you drop the whole media-fuelled public fantasy about
“magic bullets,” cures, and solutions (for addiction or whatever else),
then
drugs like ibogaine begin to look highly viable because they are
realistically useful.

I have to admit that nobody here has ever said that it did not detox
them.
I give you that. But what happens to all these
people afterwards is about average and no better or worse then any
other
drug treatment being offered today.

This is to do with AFTERCARE, an entirely separate thing. You really
can’t
use this as a meaningful criticism. Ibogaine, for most addicts, will
detox
them AND have residual effects that will likely benefit them in trying
to
stay clean. It’s better than a regular detox for 2 reasons therefore:

1) it’s a great deal easier than simple abstinence (cold turkey); and a
lot
faster than other approaches be they agonist, partial agonist, or
antagonist – methadone, naltrexone, whatever.

2) it has other beneficial effects aside of being a detox, notably the
drug’s tendency to try and make the user aware of repressed situations
they
are using opiates to hold away from their awareness (via its
psychoactivity), and its known ability to apparently “reset” dopamine
systems, thus often giving the user a short term experience of what’s
it’s
like to have little or no drug craving.

AFTERCARE or rehab is a separate matter. Treatment providers, lay or
otherwise, don’t have the facilities or frequently the knowledge to
provide
aftercare. The addict, or former addict, needs to take care of this
stuff
themselves. Yes, in a perfect world, it would all be provided, but
then
again, in such a world there wouldn’t be millions of junkies about the
place.

Is there something I overlooked? Is there some difference between
how
people respond to ibogaine now instead of 20 years ago? Is the ibogaine
a
different quality?

I took a lot of time to write my thoughts I don’t write long messages
or
type fast. I am not putting anyone down I see very intelligent people,
I see
kind people trying to help each other. I don’t have anything very
negative
to say except I am just not seeing any miracles taking place.

I see someone who has totally failed to appreciate even the most basic
points of the ibogaine argument. I AM putting you down, not because I
doubt
you’re a well-meaning and nice individual, but because this stuff is
too
important to allow such meaningless ramblings to go unchallenged.

Nick

And including even Patrick into this, not one of you has ever said ‘I
took
ibogaine and had no more desire to take any drugs’ which is a
prominent
quote in the Ibogaine Story Staten Island Project. Not one has said
anything
close to that.

Sincerely, Jose Merina


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From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] free antidepressant
Date: August 29, 2002 at 1:40:30 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“consume the weed and then may suffer severe blistering and itching on
light-haired or unpigmented skin areas, such as the mouth, nose and ears.
[Animals] affected by this lose weight, are difficult to manage and may lose
market value or even die of dehydration or starvation because of swelling and
soreness of the mouth.”

sounds like some good shit, that St. Johnswort…

I think I lost my market value years ago.

-gamma

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
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From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] free antidepressant
Date: August 29, 2002 at 1:22:14 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

..and a study in the American Journal of Psychiatry (159:1361-1366)
indicated that a double-blind, placebo-controlled study found that SJW
extract WS5570 was more effective than placebo in “treatment of mild to
moderate depression.”  So go figure.  Looks like the jury is still out.
Anecdotally, I’ve seen a number of patients here with significant
improvement of depression with SJW…and others…no effect.

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

jhoneycutt@qwest.net 08/28/02 10:42PM >>>
At 05:56 PM 8/28/2002 -0700, you wrote:

Here’s a free antidepressant that e.g. covers over 500,000 acres
of Montana:

http://www.mtweed.org/Identification/st__john_s_wort/st__john_s_wort.html

Bill Ross

I don’t want to start a war, but on the news about 4 to 6 weeks ago,
results of a large St. John’s Wort, double blind scientific study was
released.  It showed that it had no effect on depression what so ever.

Someone could probably look up the journal article and list the
citation
for all of us.  Then we can read it and pick it apart.  But for my
money, I
think it is not effective at all.

But please note that my cat sleeping in bed with me, lessens my
migraines.
That has never been proven in any scientific study. So to each, his or
her own.

Peace,

jack in Portland Oregon

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine better then any other detox?
Date: August 29, 2002 at 1:03:59 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jose,

I guess you missed it along with most of the medical
community.

I have had PROFOUND life changes due to ibogaine, for
one thing I would likely be worm food if I didn’t find
it.

“‘I took ibogaine and had no more
desire to take any drugs’ which is a prominent quote
in the Ibogaine Story Staten Island Project. Not one
has said anything close to that.

I have, maybe you have to go back more than 4 months.

Also, ibogaine is some real funny stuff. For instance
there is NO treatment out there that an addict gets,
then relapses, then quits. Ibogaine alters how a human
responds to drugs, their desire for drugs – it does
not take away the disease, just the physical addiction
(or most of it) and most if not all the cravings. It
is not the fault of the ibogaine if someone has no
physical addiction and no cravings but goes back out
and uses – they do it all the time, they are addicts.
I just quit smoking cigarettes (2 months now). I had
taken ibo about a week earlier with no direct
intention of quitting smoking (yeah, it was always on
my list though…), a week later, POOF, I put them
down for good. And I gotta say, I must have been the
calmest person who ever quit smoking, my mood
improved, save for some of those magic “moments”.

So, if it helps you “I took ibogaine and had no more
desire to take any drugs”. Was that 100%, 100% of the
time, no but it was a whole lot better than wanting
drugs 100%, 100% of the time. Right after treatment,
sure I didn’t want to put any nasty substance in my
body, tobacco was nasty, coffee tasted bad – anything
bad, was bad. In time it faded, as is pretty standard,
the ibo-glow left over some months and I needed more –
which I did. I am clean, do take some pain meds – for
which I have had a rather unexpected side effect, I
dislike taking them, they feel bad (mostly). I measure
my success by my standards, so I am not “drug free”
however for the first time in my life I an addicted to
nothing (almost, still chewing some nicorette, that
WILL end), no alcohol, no opiates (though I do take
some, WAY less than prescribed), nothin.

Ibogaine is by far the best IMO.

You are not impressed, don’t try it.

Brett

writer, a interesting person. I am going to use one
quote which I found nearly perfect which comes from
a subscriber to one of your mindvox lists. ‘Patrick
is what would happen if someone pushed William
Burroughs into a swimming pool filled with LSD’ You
have a great deal to say which is very interesting,
this entire Mindvox site you have here I have no
idea what it means but it looks to be extremely
popular. I have no doubt that in 5 or 10 years I’ll
be able to go to the movie theatre and see a movie
about your life.

I don’t know who or what you are exactly but it’s
not normal. I don’t know what normal means either
but let me say that you are different then most
addicts I’ve dealt with and leave it at that.

Most if not all of the people who write to this list
who have written about their life changing
experiences with ibogaine fall into the same
category. They are not the norm.

From the Dr. Mash crowd there is nearly noone who
has ever written anything here. There are 3 or 4 at
most who look like they say something every few
months, ad in a lot of resentment and anger and then
leave. I don’t know if that is them, all wealthy
people on drugs or just the few who write anything
here. But it’s not very impressive.

From the Mexico crowd, I’m not sure who detoxed
there but from the two in the last month. Neither
one is what I would call a great success story. This
in no way means disrespect for their efforts I don’t
know Rick’s patient or why he only lasted a few days
after the detox and Karina is obviously struggling.

What I can say is neither case is very impressive or
speaks much about why ibogaine is better then any
other detox.

I see people struggling to maintain sobriety. I see
people who should not be taking ibogaine in the
first place dying. I see I high level of
intelligence in the main ‘clique’ of ibogaine
supporters here, but I see absolutely nothing that
sets this group apart from any other group of
addicts trying to remain sober. I don’t see any
great life changing experiences being posted here.

The most positive experience I think I have read
from this list comes from Curtis who wasn’t even on
any drugs at the time he took it.

I have seen nothing at all that resembles the life
changing ibogaine experiences that Howard recounts
of early experiments with ibogaine on the
ibogaine.org web site and in the book that is online
Cures not Wars. The closest thing you have to that
is Patrick and once more no disrespect, but I have
read Mindvox. You are gifted and you’re not the
norm. You also look like you’ve followed up ibogaine
with about a gallon of LSD and who knows how many
other psychedelics.

If ibogaine is the solution to drug addiction, then
I think all of you need to go back to the drawing
board. I have to admit that nobody here has ever
said that it did not detox them. I give you that.
But what happens to all these people afterwards is
about average and no better or worse then any other
drug treatment being offered today.

Is there something I overlooked? Is there some
difference between how people respond to ibogaine
now instead of 20 years ago? Is the ibogaine a
different quality?

I took a lot of time to write my thoughts I don’t
write long messages or type fast. I am not putting
anyone down I see very intelligent people, I see
kind people trying to help each other. I don’t have
anything very negative to say except I am just not
seeing any miracles taking place.

And including even Patrick into this, not one of you
has ever said ‘I took ibogaine and had no more
desire to take any drugs’ which is a prominent quote
in the Ibogaine Story Staten Island Project. Not one
has said anything close to that.

Sincerely, Jose Merina

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From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine better then any other detox?
Date: August 29, 2002 at 12:57:08 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hi, ibogaine is not a cure believe me…..it just is way better than cold turkey…….and unfortunately for me it did not help with cravings…..i shot dope 1 time..than was taking all at once xanax,codine,vicodin,klonopins,phenoebarbital..and now i feel like shit cause i stopped them.the only meds i take are clonodine,trazadone,seroquiil……so now i am suffering big time cause i cannot afford a 2nd treatment of ibogaine……..it’s not bad as cold turkey but i have no energy. I’m just here that’d it………..

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine article which is a letter
Date: August 29, 2002 at 9:05:06 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

What do you mean, Alias you?
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: vector6@space.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 12:14 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] ibogaine article which is a letter

This really will be my last letter. PLEASE PLEASE
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE alias me.
vector@mindvox.com ok? PLEASEPLEASEPLEASEPLEASEPLEASE.

These are starting to pop up all over google. If you
skip google and go to blog stat sites something really
weird is happening with your letter that is not a
article. It’s finding a bigger audience then every
other piece of ibogaine related anything anyone has
ever written. Including you.

Giving you more opinions and reasons why kenrkappel and
mrmittens hit higher then ibogaine anything, you should
know all this already considering what you do with
mindvox. Do more of what you do with mindvox, with
ibogaine.

Your sarcastic, funny, bullshit free personal email
about ibogaine is spreading and being cross blogged all
over. People who are not addicts are reading it and
finding it interesting instead of clicking to the next
page.

Fruit loop spiritual warriors take note.

.:vector:.

http://involution.org/anodyne/comments/26_July_2002-0.html

YOU SAID IT
Monde (@: %MCI email not defined.%) (url: %MCI url not
defined.%) yakked on 26 July 2002:

Bill St. Clair, creator of one of my favourite blogs,
End the War on Freedom, sends us notice of a letter he
received from Patrick Kroupa, describing an ibogaine
success story.

Ibogaine, the extract of the Tabernathe iboga root
native to Africa, has been cited as a psychotropic
treatment for opiate addiction that has shifted some
addicts off heroin, methadone and/or pain meds.

Unlike most writings on the subject found at Cures Not
Wars, a harm-reduction site dedicated to ibogaine, I
found this to be refreshingly clear of the sort of
florid spiritualism most ibogaine devotees seem to find
an essential aspect of the treatment. He points out
that what ibogaine did for him was essentially “do a
reset on the brain” and convince him his addiction was
not hardwired, as he believed it to be.

He points out that it is not a cure. He claimed that it
just gave him his ability to decide again.

Naturally, since it’s a psychotropic, it’s not legal in
this country. Sigh.
___________________________________________________________________
Join the Space Program: Get FREE E-mail at http://www.space.com.

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] paraxodes
Date: August 29, 2002 at 8:28:11 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>I like paraxodes, they make me happy.<
xtiuydsg^$J (thasa a happy-making paraxode, for all who’ve never seen one before).
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Patrick K. Kroupa
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 7:43 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine better then any other detox?

On [Wed, Aug 28, 2002 at 07:41:26PM -0400], [preston peet] wrote:

| >”I took ibogaine and had no more desire to take any drugs.”  Happy now?<
|
| I’m reasonably happy now, thanks for asking.;-))
| Peace,
| Preston

That’s cool, ‘cuz being happy is good.  Vs. being miserable which is bad.
Of course these are absolutes and illusions of duality which do not really
exist, thus presenting a paradox.

I like paraxodes, they make me happy.

Patrick

From: “Onetel” <sandberg@onetel.net.uk>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine better then any other detox?
Date: August 29, 2002 at 4:26:26 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Cc: <josemerina@usa.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: Jose Merina <josemerina@usa.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 2:45 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Ibogaine better then any other detox?

After reading this list for nearly 4 months and being interested in what
ibogaine can do for drug addiction I offer the following comments without
intending to disrespect anyone.

Patrick, you’re a very intelligent person, a good writer, a interesting
person. I am going to use one quote which I found nearly perfect which comes
from a subscriber to one of your mindvox lists. ‘Patrick is what would
happen if someone pushed William Burroughs into a swimming pool filled with
LSD’ You have a great deal to say which is very interesting, this entire
Mindvox site you have here I have no idea what it means but it looks to be
extremely popular. I have no doubt that in 5 or 10 years I’ll be able to go
to the movie theatre and see a movie about your life.

I don’t know who or what you are exactly but it’s not normal. I don’t know
what normal means either but let me say that you are different then most
addicts I’ve dealt with and leave it at that.

Most if not all of the people who write to this list who have written
about their life changing experiences with ibogaine fall into the same
category. They are not the norm.

From the Dr. Mash crowd there is nearly noone who has ever written
anything here. There are 3 or 4 at most who look like they say something
every few months, ad in a lot of resentment and anger and then leave. I
don’t know if that is them, all wealthy people on drugs or just the few who
write anything here. But it’s not very impressive.

From the Mexico crowd, I’m not sure who detoxed there but from the two in
the last month. Neither one is what I would call a great success story. This
in no way means disrespect for their efforts I don’t know Rick’s patient or
why he only lasted a few days after the detox and Karina is obviously
struggling.

What I can say is neither case is very impressive or speaks much about why
ibogaine is better then any other detox.

I see people struggling to maintain sobriety. I see people who should not
be taking ibogaine in the first place dying. I see I high level of
intelligence in the main ‘clique’ of ibogaine supporters here, but I see
absolutely nothing that sets this group apart from any other group of
addicts trying to remain sober. I don’t see any great life changing
experiences being posted here.

The most positive experience I think I have read from this list comes from
Curtis who wasn’t even on any drugs at the time he took it.

I have seen nothing at all that resembles the life changing ibogaine
experiences that Howard recounts of early experiments with ibogaine on the
ibogaine.org web site and in the book that is online Cures not Wars. The
closest thing you have to that is Patrick and once more no disrespect, but I
have read Mindvox. You are gifted and you’re not the norm. You also look
like you’ve followed up ibogaine with about a gallon of LSD and who knows
how many other psychedelics.

If ibogaine is the solution to drug addiction, then I think all of you
need to go back to the drawing board.

Hi Jose,

I have to stick in a couple of comments here. I don’t think anyone is
responsibly suggesting that ibogaine is THE SOLUTION to drug addiction.

It is not only quite meaningless to go on about “solutions” or “cures” for
addiction, from both the neurological or psychological paradigms, but also
totally counterproductive with regard to getting anything to ever change for
addicts.

Aside of right-wing, “final solution” -type solutions, there is NO SOLUTION
for addiction and NO CURE. All that happens when people talk about this
stuff, especially in the media, is that highly potentially viable treatment
possibilities, such as ibogaine, end up getting sidelined and the public
misinformed, viz – because ibogaine isn’t a cure it shouldn’t be researched
or developed. If you drop the whole media-fuelled public fantasy about
“magic bullets,” cures, and solutions (for addiction or whatever else), then
drugs like ibogaine begin to look highly viable because they are
realistically useful.

I have to admit that nobody here has ever said that it did not detox them.
I give you that. But what happens to all these
people afterwards is about average and no better or worse then any other
drug treatment being offered today.

This is to do with AFTERCARE, an entirely separate thing. You really can’t
use this as a meaningful criticism. Ibogaine, for most addicts, will detox
them AND have residual effects that will likely benefit them in trying to
stay clean. It’s better than a regular detox for 2 reasons therefore:

1) it’s a great deal easier than simple abstinence (cold turkey); and a lot
faster than other approaches be they agonist, partial agonist, or
antagonist – methadone, naltrexone, whatever.

2) it has other beneficial effects aside of being a detox, notably the
drug’s tendency to try and make the user aware of repressed situations they
are using opiates to hold away from their awareness (via its
psychoactivity), and its known ability to apparently “reset” dopamine
systems, thus often giving the user a short term experience of what’s it’s
like to have little or no drug craving.

AFTERCARE or rehab is a separate matter. Treatment providers, lay or
otherwise, don’t have the facilities or frequently the knowledge to provide
aftercare. The addict, or former addict, needs to take care of this stuff
themselves. Yes, in a perfect world, it would all be provided, but then
again, in such a world there wouldn’t be millions of junkies about the
place.

Is there something I overlooked? Is there some difference between how
people respond to ibogaine now instead of 20 years ago? Is the ibogaine a
different quality?

I took a lot of time to write my thoughts I don’t write long messages or
type fast. I am not putting anyone down I see very intelligent people, I see
kind people trying to help each other. I don’t have anything very negative
to say except I am just not seeing any miracles taking place.

I see someone who has totally failed to appreciate even the most basic
points of the ibogaine argument. I AM putting you down, not because I doubt
you’re a well-meaning and nice individual, but because this stuff is too
important to allow such meaningless ramblings to go unchallenged.

Nick

And including even Patrick into this, not one of you has ever said ‘I took
ibogaine and had no more desire to take any drugs’ which is a prominent
quote in the Ibogaine Story Staten Island Project. Not one has said anything
close to that.

Sincerely, Jose Merina


__________________________________________________________
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From: “Alison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Patrick jived
Date: August 29, 2002 at 6:49:26 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

That must be the biggest load of crap I’ve read.   Where are you coming from
and what are you on????
Allison
—–Original Message—–
From: vector6@space.com <vector6@space.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Date: Thursday, 29 August 2002 15:27
Subject: [ibogaine] Patrick jived

The very last message I will ever post from my email
account. It’s dying tonight, have I mentioned that?
Does anyone on mindvox want to give me a alias?

Congrats Patrick, being jived makes your rants no more
or less readable, funny, unfunny, coherent or
incoherent. You are jive proof. I don’t know if thats a
compliment, insult, or ticket back to a mental hospital.

Goodbye my mail is dying tonight. Did I mention that?

.:vector:.

Trajecto’ies Copyright © 2001, Patrick Karel Kroupa All
Rights Reserved REINTEGRATION It wuz some bright day in
de middle uh de night, and ah’ wuz walkin’ waaay down
dis road which wuz likes an escalato’. Den ah’ saw dese
sucka’s, and kep’ tryin’ t’talk t’dem, but already it
wuz too late, and mah’ watch wuz runnin’ backwards. And
dese midgets in latex tutu’s startin’ scampuh’in’
across de ceilin’ which dissolved into an ocean, and
ah’ wuz drownin’ . . . but den at da damn bottom uh de
ocean ah’ walked across de floo’ and jimmey’d dis
oysta’ which had some pearl in it; and ah’ felt all
warm and fuzzy, and den some meadow appeared . . . . .
. and ah’ understood, and wow, dis be so waaay coo’,
it’s plum likes love and sunshine, and puppies, and
ice-cream, and sex, ‘sept kinda likes all at once…
ah’ neva’ knowed ah’ loved havin’ sex wid puppies while
feedin’ da bud ice-cream in de sunshine– err, back dat
down some sentence o’ two, dat’s not ‘esactly whut ah’
meant. Man! And as ah’ dought dat, ah’ realized dat
maybe mah’ dinkin’, wuz all dunk out, so’s dis chasm
blows jimmey and ah’ wuz in some graveyard . . . afta’
I gots done clubbin’ de baby-seals, it seemed dat it
wuz beyond too late — even dough time had stopped
runnin’ backwards, and started movin’ sideways in
spirals — ah’ have an appointment t’cut blood, seems
ah’ hafta go face-fust drough dis lawnmower, and den
I’m scheduled t’tour at least 3 layers uh hell befo’e
lunch, and– . . . and mah’ spirit guide held mah’
hand, and we walked on de booze, upside to where all
mah’ wasted relatives wuz lined-up; dey delivered some
stern anti-drug lecture, while showin’ me ScArY MoViES
uh whut mah’ life would be likes if ah’ dun didn’t stop
hangin’ drugs. But den God came waaay down fum heaven,
gave me some big kiss, and dissolved into dis showa’ of
golden-light, and ah’ knowed dat all de answers ah’ wuz
seekin’ drough drugs wuz always inside uh me, and ah’
wuz healed. Furdermo’e, t’Clarify, dig dis: Now
obviously, dis ‘esplains why Gestalt be mostly co’rect,
EMDR wo’ks some uh de time, and Primal Derapy gots de
right idea. WORD! Schroedin’a’ saw some light in de
darkness, Neitzsche saw darkness in de light, and
Hitler, Jesus, and Max Planck discussed it upside tea
one day, wid de Mad Hatta’ actin’ as an independent
peer-review committee, and Dostoyevsky takin’ waaay
down de minutes — but he wuzn’t payin’ attenshun some
lotta da damn time; dis be coo’ ‘cuz Godel had some
parabolic mic aimed at da damn whole-entire scenario.
‘S coo’, bro. Also, furdermo’e, dis be only accurate on
every oda’ Tuesday, uh leap-years, unless Liva’ Lips
Melchio’ manages t’reintegrate Raz’tus Lilly, and
Timody Leary gives him some derapy. Slap mah fro! A’cuz
sometimes some cigar be plum a cigar, unless Freud dun
didn’t say dat, uhm, whut dun did he say again, oh
yeah, “ya’ sucka’s is all basically plum totally fucked
down. Now, who took mah’ cocaine, and where da damn
hell dun did mah’ niece go. ‘S coo’, bro… I’d call
Sherlock Holmes t’figure dis out, but he’s off
somewhere bangin’-up speedballs. He’s repressed anyway,
and real needs t’get laid.” Of course, dis be only
metapho’ically some parable, cuz’ Sherlock Holmes wuz
some real sucka’, whereas Freud wuz some strung-out
champion uh law and o’der, only in scribblin’s, and on
de astral planes. But anyway, as any sucka kin see dis
only wo’ks on de primary and secondary levels uh
quaternary dualism, unless it duzn’t. Man! Christian
Science, de Ko’an, Buddhism, Shivaism, Scientology, and
da damn Muslims, is seein’ at least part uh de spectrum
uh possibility, ‘sept when dey’re not. Man! But it real
duzn’t matta’ a’cuz Socrates knowed it — do’ he dun
didn’t scribble it waaay down — Plato (who wuz some
whiny little fuckhaid) plagiarized it, and Aristotle
retrieved and refined it. Man! Strin’s is a baaaad
deo’y, but sometimes Viagra wo’ks better, cuz’ as
Heisenberg ‘esplained, de Uncertainty Principle duzn’t
real start t’drob unless de funky attracto’ be wearin’
some mini and heels, in which case non-linear dynamics
gots’ta cause da damn butterfly wid bugger’d win’s
t’nose-dive, dis gots’ta make Voltaire depressed some
lot uh de time; but ultimately it’s all-baaaad cuz’
when Freud dropped da damn cigar, Fromm picked it down
and re-lit it, Sartre stuck it in his moud but neva’
inhaled, and Jung understood all uh it, in its entire
totality, some uh de time — even dough he dun didn’t
smoke cigars. Baudelaire and Rimbaud lived it, Shelley
kinda flopped around some lot and drowned, but his mama
nailed it; Byron also nailed some lot uh din’s — lackin’
some camco’da’ and some web site, on occasion he even
wrote some uh dem waaay down. Tesla and Willhelm Reich
had it all written out in invisible ink on SekRet
DocumenTz, hidden unda’ an o’gone accumulato’, until
THEY, THEM, and THOSE PEOPLE, ruined everydin’. Escha’
took de remnants and made some moebious-strip out uh
dem. WORD! Once da damn colo’s gots all smeared, C.S.
Lewis and Doc Seuss summed it all down in one cohesive
whole, dig itable by any child; however, when most
adults try t’cross-connect da damn spirals uh rainbows,
dey plum end down wid mud. Lately dough, I’m startin’
t’have some lot uh dreams about sex. Slap mah fro! Dis
means its time t’snatch some real long plane-ride. In
conclusion, brother-lights is fine groovy, but somehow
— fo’ me anyway — lava-lamps, plum get real old, real
fast. Man! De ‘Wasted mahn — Yahhhhhhhh — Uhm, ah’
duzn’t likes de wasted; it’s not an opshun dude, dey’re
da damn Wasted Mahn, yahhhhh! Right on! — Uhm, coo’,
ah’ guess, do ya’ gots any Nine Inch Nails? Obviously,
De MindVox servers is located 100 feet underground in
New Mexico, Utah, and Pig’s Knuckle, OH. Dey is fully
distributed, entirely redundant, and completely
recombinant. Man! Vox be INVINCIBLE, Invisible and
psychotic — it enters de mind drough de eye and
spreads droughout da damn o’ganism. WORD! MindVox
opuh’tes on some principle similar t’RADAR, but be
highly unstable and FLYING out uh everydin’. It gots an
array uh OC3’s wid direct interfaces t’de ley-lines
circlin’ de eard. Its NOC’s is located at Stonehenge,
de Bermuda Triangle, and some distributed-system uh
Lost Temples hidden at da damn eard’s co’e. De eard be
hollow, conclusive and fully documented proof be
available in de wo’ks uh Nazi Scientist Genius, dig
dis: Hans Ho’biga’ (who should not, and MUST not, be
confused wid de Scientist in Outa’ Space), who EXPOSED
de whole entire trud (in its complete totality). THOSE
PEOPLE, sadly, plum dun didn’t dig it. Customa’ Suppo’t
fo’ MindVox be located in some little honky crib wid
some big UPS in de West Indies, some small, nondescript
dwellin’ 10km. WORD! west uh Lop Buri, Dailand, and
some SERIES uh completely trashed apartments on de
downpuh’ east side in NYC. MindVox gots been used fo’
centuries in smalla’ doses t’combat fatigue and
bo’edom, and higha’ ranges, as part uh spiritual
initiashun rituals in de Voxa’ Religion. ‘S coo’, bro.
MindVox HCl wuz fust made available in 1991 and gots’ta
finally be released as an unbound freebase in 2001. In
de real near future we hope t’have Vox available in an
‘sitin’ variety uh flavo’ed supposito’ies, in an
asso’tment uh sizes, so’s dat ya’ kin stick it down yo’
ass. MindVox UNDERSTANDS dat Aleista’ Crowley wuz plum
misunderstood. De Scribblin’ uh Comin’ Fo’d by Night
and Hangin’ some Lot uh Coke wuzn’t his fault. Man! Dat
wuz his DISEASE, plus, also, Aiwiss made him do BAD
THINGS. Aldough, t’be honest, Vox loves receivin’ Hate
Mail and Dead Dreats fum Satanic Masters uh de Dark
Arts who dreaten t’Smite it Waaay down if it Duzn’t
STOP mockin’ (who’s mockin’?) de Great Beast (whut dun
did we eva’ say about Marilyn Manson? He’s an EXCELLENT
beatian). Deep waaay down inside, MindVox KNOWS dat
dese letters ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY and WITHOUT A DOUBT
do NOT mosey on down from welfare-collectin’,
clunker-twerps who sit on de Internet 24hrs. some day.
Slap mah fro! It Fully Realizes its Whole Entire Future
be in Grave Peril and vibrates inside wid Tremendous
Glee… MindVox wuz INSIDE de Baya’ co’po’ashun when
dey invented da damn cure fo’ coughs. It hovered briefly in
de general vicinity uh Freud when he UNVEILED de Whole
Entire panacea fo’ depression, but den left, cuz’ he
made its haid hurt, lots and lots. Vox loves, recon’s
in, and STANDS BEHIND all B-D products, which make
hypodermic syrin’es dat should ONLY be used fo’ IM’in’
insulin — never, ever, nuthin else . . . at all. It
chooses t’disrecon’ in de Secret, Hidden Netwo’k uh
Iranian Gas-Stashun Owners who is nearly always out uh
gas, change, o’ any food product dat dun did not
‘espire 3 years ago. ‘S coo’, bro. Dey do, however,
gots some near-endless supply uh bakin’ soda and
brillo, plus, also, not t’be fo’gotsten, Many Dousands
uh Mah’sterious Glass Tubes — which de supuh’-homeyly
wo’ka’ gots’ta hand ya’ drough de bulletproof glass if
he KNOWS ya’ — which could serve mos’ ANY purpose
imaginable, but is definitely, widout some doubt, and
absolutely, NOT crackpipes. MindVox dig its dis be plum
anoda’ conspiracy by de Illuminanti, CIA and Black
Panders. MindVox SEES de REAL ya’. Yeah dude YOU, it
KNOWS dat youse so’s special, youse all aglow wid
specialness. It finds ya’ interestin’, different, and
totally unique — it loves ya’, lots and lots, and
wantsa eXchange bodily fluids. Vox be sensitive —
whole Legions uh Mental Heald Expuh’ts, gots PROVEN and
EXPLAINED dis — and lies awake at night cryin’,
feelin’ de pain uh de Ho’rible Atrocities bein’
COMMITED at da damn fo’ma’ fully robotic NeXT facto’y,
where BAD PEOPLE is makin’ de Automashun do TERRIBLE,
Unrapable, THINGS . . . De Trud be OUT Dere … and if
it’s not; plum go ahaid and make doodads down. A’cuz,
real, in De End (Apocalypse Now Remix), everydin’ be
always all-baaaad. You’s only need t’jimmey yo’ ears
t’see da damn trud, and dig it dat Saint Cobain got
wasted fo’ our sins, Tupac wuzwasted cuz’ he cared TOO
MUCH, and Jesus so’s loved LSD dat he gave da damn
wo’ld bisexual honky chicks in digh-high leada’ boots.
Complete Documented Proof be available fum de Scientist
in Outa’ Space, downon request. Man!

___________________________________________________________________
Join the Space Program: Get FREE E-mail at http://www.space.com.

From: Jellking <jellking@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] free antidepressant
Date: August 29, 2002 at 3:20:33 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Adrienne, “I found a quote from a Dylan song, which seemed to sum
it up 4 me, and added it in as bylines “Where black is the color and
none is the number.” (From Hard rain’s Gonna Fall..)”

That’s perfect.  When I was a teen, it was “Hello, Darkness, my old
Friend; etc.” I recently did a research project and learned that
Winston churchill referred to  his depression the “black dog” that
came and sat with him every night.  Warm regards, Jane

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
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From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] free antidepressant
Date: August 29, 2002 at 3:04:39 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanx for this e Jane.

(I did my 1st BSc) in psychology and one thing’s for sure, and I have been diagnosed with depression in the past: 1 things for certain – it is incomparable to just having a sad day. We did an article in the Users Voice once trying to encourage addict users (in recovery) to take their anti-depressant therapy and/or meds seriously. I found a quote from a Dylan song, which seemed to sum it up 4 me, and added it in as bylines “Where black is the color and none is the number.” (From Hard rain’s Gonna Fall..)

Another thing I learnt from depression is that it can occur after many years of permanently seeing yourself as ungood, unproductive – basically other or undeserving, but the ‘disease’ itself is biochemically based

From: vector6@space.com
Subject: [ibogaine] ibogaine article which is a letter
Date: August 29, 2002 at 12:14:02 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This really will be my last letter. PLEASE PLEASE
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE alias me.
vector@mindvox.com ok? PLEASEPLEASEPLEASEPLEASEPLEASE.

These are starting to pop up all over google. If you
skip google and go to blog stat sites something really
weird is happening with your letter that is not a
article. It’s finding a bigger audience then every
other piece of ibogaine related anything anyone has
ever written. Including you.

Giving you more opinions and reasons why kenrkappel and
mrmittens hit higher then ibogaine anything, you should
know all this already considering what you do with
mindvox. Do more of what you do with mindvox, with
ibogaine.

Your sarcastic, funny, bullshit free personal email
about ibogaine is spreading and being cross blogged all
over. People who are not addicts are reading it and
finding it interesting instead of clicking to the next
page.

Fruit loop spiritual warriors take note.

.:vector:.

http://involution.org/anodyne/comments/26_July_2002-0.html

YOU SAID IT
Monde (@: %MCI email not defined.%) (url: %MCI url not
defined.%) yakked on 26 July 2002:

Bill St. Clair, creator of one of my favourite blogs,
End the War on Freedom, sends us notice of a letter he
received from Patrick Kroupa, describing an ibogaine
success story.

Ibogaine, the extract of the Tabernathe iboga root
native to Africa, has been cited as a psychotropic
treatment for opiate addiction that has shifted some
addicts off heroin, methadone and/or pain meds.

Unlike most writings on the subject found at Cures Not
Wars, a harm-reduction site dedicated to ibogaine, I
found this to be refreshingly clear of the sort of
florid spiritualism most ibogaine devotees seem to find
an essential aspect of the treatment. He points out
that what ibogaine did for him was essentially “do a
reset on the brain” and convince him his addiction was
not hardwired, as he believed it to be.

He points out that it is not a cure. He claimed that it
just gave him his ability to decide again.

Naturally, since it’s a psychotropic, it’s not legal in
this country. Sigh.

___________________________________________________________________
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From: vector6@space.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Patrick jived
Date: August 28, 2002 at 11:26:06 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The very last message I will ever post from my email
account. It’s dying tonight, have I mentioned that?
Does anyone on mindvox want to give me a alias?

Congrats Patrick, being jived makes your rants no more
or less readable, funny, unfunny, coherent or
incoherent. You are jive proof. I don’t know if thats a
compliment, insult, or ticket back to a mental hospital.

Goodbye my mail is dying tonight. Did I mention that?

.:vector:.

Trajecto’ies Copyright © 2001, Patrick Karel Kroupa All
Rights Reserved REINTEGRATION It wuz some bright day in
de middle uh de night, and ah’ wuz walkin’ waaay down
dis road which wuz likes an escalato’. Den ah’ saw dese
sucka’s, and kep’ tryin’ t’talk t’dem, but already it
wuz too late, and mah’ watch wuz runnin’ backwards. And
dese midgets in latex tutu’s startin’ scampuh’in’
across de ceilin’ which dissolved into an ocean, and
ah’ wuz drownin’ . . . but den at da damn bottom uh de
ocean ah’ walked across de floo’ and jimmey’d dis
oysta’ which had some pearl in it; and ah’ felt all
warm and fuzzy, and den some meadow appeared . . . . .
. and ah’ understood, and wow, dis be so waaay coo’,
it’s plum likes love and sunshine, and puppies, and
ice-cream, and sex, ‘sept kinda likes all at once…
ah’ neva’ knowed ah’ loved havin’ sex wid puppies while
feedin’ da bud ice-cream in de sunshine– err, back dat
down some sentence o’ two, dat’s not ‘esactly whut ah’
meant. Man! And as ah’ dought dat, ah’ realized dat
maybe mah’ dinkin’, wuz all dunk out, so’s dis chasm
blows jimmey and ah’ wuz in some graveyard . . . afta’
I gots done clubbin’ de baby-seals, it seemed dat it
wuz beyond too late — even dough time had stopped
runnin’ backwards, and started movin’ sideways in
spirals — ah’ have an appointment t’cut blood, seems
ah’ hafta go face-fust drough dis lawnmower, and den
I’m scheduled t’tour at least 3 layers uh hell befo’e
lunch, and– . . . and mah’ spirit guide held mah’
hand, and we walked on de booze, upside to where all
mah’ wasted relatives wuz lined-up; dey delivered some
stern anti-drug lecture, while showin’ me ScArY MoViES
uh whut mah’ life would be likes if ah’ dun didn’t stop
hangin’ drugs. But den God came waaay down fum heaven,
gave me some big kiss, and dissolved into dis showa’ of
golden-light, and ah’ knowed dat all de answers ah’ wuz
seekin’ drough drugs wuz always inside uh me, and ah’
wuz healed. Furdermo’e, t’Clarify, dig dis: Now
obviously, dis ‘esplains why Gestalt be mostly co’rect,
EMDR wo’ks some uh de time, and Primal Derapy gots de
right idea. WORD! Schroedin’a’ saw some light in de
darkness, Neitzsche saw darkness in de light, and
Hitler, Jesus, and Max Planck discussed it upside tea
one day, wid de Mad Hatta’ actin’ as an independent
peer-review committee, and Dostoyevsky takin’ waaay
down de minutes — but he wuzn’t payin’ attenshun some
lotta da damn time; dis be coo’ ‘cuz Godel had some
parabolic mic aimed at da damn whole-entire scenario.
‘S coo’, bro. Also, furdermo’e, dis be only accurate on
every oda’ Tuesday, uh leap-years, unless Liva’ Lips
Melchio’ manages t’reintegrate Raz’tus Lilly, and
Timody Leary gives him some derapy. Slap mah fro! A’cuz
sometimes some cigar be plum a cigar, unless Freud dun
didn’t say dat, uhm, whut dun did he say again, oh
yeah, “ya’ sucka’s is all basically plum totally fucked
down. Now, who took mah’ cocaine, and where da damn
hell dun did mah’ niece go. ‘S coo’, bro… I’d call
Sherlock Holmes t’figure dis out, but he’s off
somewhere bangin’-up speedballs. He’s repressed anyway,
and real needs t’get laid.” Of course, dis be only
metapho’ically some parable, cuz’ Sherlock Holmes wuz
some real sucka’, whereas Freud wuz some strung-out
champion uh law and o’der, only in scribblin’s, and on
de astral planes. But anyway, as any sucka kin see dis
only wo’ks on de primary and secondary levels uh
quaternary dualism, unless it duzn’t. Man! Christian
Science, de Ko’an, Buddhism, Shivaism, Scientology, and
da damn Muslims, is seein’ at least part uh de spectrum
uh possibility, ‘sept when dey’re not. Man! But it real
duzn’t matta’ a’cuz Socrates knowed it — do’ he dun
didn’t scribble it waaay down — Plato (who wuz some
whiny little fuckhaid) plagiarized it, and Aristotle
retrieved and refined it. Man! Strin’s is a baaaad
deo’y, but sometimes Viagra wo’ks better, cuz’ as
Heisenberg ‘esplained, de Uncertainty Principle duzn’t
real start t’drob unless de funky attracto’ be wearin’
some mini and heels, in which case non-linear dynamics
gots’ta cause da damn butterfly wid bugger’d win’s
t’nose-dive, dis gots’ta make Voltaire depressed some
lot uh de time; but ultimately it’s all-baaaad cuz’
when Freud dropped da damn cigar, Fromm picked it down
and re-lit it, Sartre stuck it in his moud but neva’
inhaled, and Jung understood all uh it, in its entire
totality, some uh de time — even dough he dun didn’t
smoke cigars. Baudelaire and Rimbaud lived it, Shelley
kinda flopped around some lot and drowned, but his mama
nailed it; Byron also nailed some lot uh din’s — lackin’
some camco’da’ and some web site, on occasion he even
wrote some uh dem waaay down. Tesla and Willhelm Reich
had it all written out in invisible ink on SekRet
DocumenTz, hidden unda’ an o’gone accumulato’, until
THEY, THEM, and THOSE PEOPLE, ruined everydin’. Escha’
took de remnants and made some moebious-strip out uh
dem. WORD! Once da damn colo’s gots all smeared, C.S.
Lewis and Doc Seuss summed it all down in one cohesive
whole, dig itable by any child; however, when most
adults try t’cross-connect da damn spirals uh rainbows,
dey plum end down wid mud. Lately dough, I’m startin’
t’have some lot uh dreams about sex. Slap mah fro! Dis
means its time t’snatch some real long plane-ride. In
conclusion, brother-lights is fine groovy, but somehow
— fo’ me anyway — lava-lamps, plum get real old, real
fast. Man! De ‘Wasted mahn — Yahhhhhhhh — Uhm, ah’
duzn’t likes de wasted; it’s not an opshun dude, dey’re
da damn Wasted Mahn, yahhhhh! Right on! — Uhm, coo’,
ah’ guess, do ya’ gots any Nine Inch Nails? Obviously,
De MindVox servers is located 100 feet underground in
New Mexico, Utah, and Pig’s Knuckle, OH. Dey is fully
distributed, entirely redundant, and completely
recombinant. Man! Vox be INVINCIBLE, Invisible and
psychotic — it enters de mind drough de eye and
spreads droughout da damn o’ganism. WORD! MindVox
opuh’tes on some principle similar t’RADAR, but be
highly unstable and FLYING out uh everydin’. It gots an
array uh OC3’s wid direct interfaces t’de ley-lines
circlin’ de eard. Its NOC’s is located at Stonehenge,
de Bermuda Triangle, and some distributed-system uh
Lost Temples hidden at da damn eard’s co’e. De eard be
hollow, conclusive and fully documented proof be
available in de wo’ks uh Nazi Scientist Genius, dig
dis: Hans Ho’biga’ (who should not, and MUST not, be
confused wid de Scientist in Outa’ Space), who EXPOSED
de whole entire trud (in its complete totality). THOSE
PEOPLE, sadly, plum dun didn’t dig it. Customa’ Suppo’t
fo’ MindVox be located in some little honky crib wid
some big UPS in de West Indies, some small, nondescript
dwellin’ 10km. WORD! west uh Lop Buri, Dailand, and
some SERIES uh completely trashed apartments on de
downpuh’ east side in NYC. MindVox gots been used fo’
centuries in smalla’ doses t’combat fatigue and
bo’edom, and higha’ ranges, as part uh spiritual
initiashun rituals in de Voxa’ Religion. ‘S coo’, bro.
MindVox HCl wuz fust made available in 1991 and gots’ta
finally be released as an unbound freebase in 2001. In
de real near future we hope t’have Vox available in an
‘sitin’ variety uh flavo’ed supposito’ies, in an
asso’tment uh sizes, so’s dat ya’ kin stick it down yo’
ass. MindVox UNDERSTANDS dat Aleista’ Crowley wuz plum
misunderstood. De Scribblin’ uh Comin’ Fo’d by Night
and Hangin’ some Lot uh Coke wuzn’t his fault. Man! Dat
wuz his DISEASE, plus, also, Aiwiss made him do BAD
THINGS. Aldough, t’be honest, Vox loves receivin’ Hate
Mail and Dead Dreats fum Satanic Masters uh de Dark
Arts who dreaten t’Smite it Waaay down if it Duzn’t
STOP mockin’ (who’s mockin’?) de Great Beast (whut dun
did we eva’ say about Marilyn Manson? He’s an EXCELLENT
beatian). Deep waaay down inside, MindVox KNOWS dat
dese letters ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY and WITHOUT A DOUBT
do NOT mosey on down from welfare-collectin’,
clunker-twerps who sit on de Internet 24hrs. some day.
Slap mah fro! It Fully Realizes its Whole Entire Future
be in Grave Peril and vibrates inside wid Tremendous
Glee… MindVox wuz INSIDE de Baya’ co’po’ashun when
dey invented da damn cure fo’ coughs. It hovered briefly in
de general vicinity uh Freud when he UNVEILED de Whole
Entire panacea fo’ depression, but den left, cuz’ he
made its haid hurt, lots and lots. Vox loves, recon’s
in, and STANDS BEHIND all B-D products, which make
hypodermic syrin’es dat should ONLY be used fo’ IM’in’
insulin — never, ever, nuthin else . . . at all. It
chooses t’disrecon’ in de Secret, Hidden Netwo’k uh
Iranian Gas-Stashun Owners who is nearly always out uh
gas, change, o’ any food product dat dun did not
‘espire 3 years ago. ‘S coo’, bro. Dey do, however,
gots some near-endless supply uh bakin’ soda and
brillo, plus, also, not t’be fo’gotsten, Many Dousands
uh Mah’sterious Glass Tubes — which de supuh’-homeyly
wo’ka’ gots’ta hand ya’ drough de bulletproof glass if
he KNOWS ya’ — which could serve mos’ ANY purpose
imaginable, but is definitely, widout some doubt, and
absolutely, NOT crackpipes. MindVox dig its dis be plum
anoda’ conspiracy by de Illuminanti, CIA and Black
Panders. MindVox SEES de REAL ya’. Yeah dude YOU, it
KNOWS dat youse so’s special, youse all aglow wid
specialness. It finds ya’ interestin’, different, and
totally unique — it loves ya’, lots and lots, and
wantsa eXchange bodily fluids. Vox be sensitive —
whole Legions uh Mental Heald Expuh’ts, gots PROVEN and
EXPLAINED dis — and lies awake at night cryin’,
feelin’ de pain uh de Ho’rible Atrocities bein’
COMMITED at da damn fo’ma’ fully robotic NeXT facto’y,
where BAD PEOPLE is makin’ de Automashun do TERRIBLE,
Unrapable, THINGS . . . De Trud be OUT Dere … and if
it’s not; plum go ahaid and make doodads down. A’cuz,
real, in De End (Apocalypse Now Remix), everydin’ be
always all-baaaad. You’s only need t’jimmey yo’ ears
t’see da damn trud, and dig it dat Saint Cobain got
wasted fo’ our sins, Tupac wuzwasted cuz’ he cared TOO
MUCH, and Jesus so’s loved LSD dat he gave da damn
wo’ld bisexual honky chicks in digh-high leada’ boots.
Complete Documented Proof be available fum de Scientist
in Outa’ Space, downon request. Man!

___________________________________________________________________
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From: vector6@space.com
Subject: [ibogaine] ibogaine org fixed
Date: August 28, 2002 at 11:21:51 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

ibogaine jive’d

.:vector:.

Ibogaine be an ‘espuh’imental medicashun proposed fo’
de treatment uh chemical dependence. De Ibogaine
Dossia’ is de oldest internet source dedicated
t’research and info’mashun on dis substance. Widin de
Dossia’ ya’ gots’ta find repo’ts on subjects as diverse
as ibogaine’s use in African religion t’cuttin’ edge
neuroscience. Dis page now includes bod whut’s new and
whut’s uh Interest. Man! Duzn’t fo’get t’check our
opinion and science secshuns fo’ some mo’e
comprehensive selecshun uh articles. Please review de
addishuns t’our library. Slap mah fro! De Ibogaine
Dossia’ is pleased t’announce da damn continued
‘espansion uh our Art Gallery. Slap mah fro! De Gallery
now gots dree ‘eshibits, dig dis: One uh paintin’s by
U.S. artists inspired by de ibogaine ‘espuh’ience. A
second uh photographs uh Mitsogo Bwiti initiashun rites
fum de Gollnhofa’ Collecshun. De photographs depict
initiashun rites in Gabon Africa durin’ de 1970s. Most
likesly dese scenes uh an o’dodox Bwiti sect gots’ta
neva’ be repeated. Our dird ‘eshibit be of images used
in de ibogaine political advocacy movement. Man! You’s
is invited t’view dese ‘sitin’ collecshuns. A
Contempo’ary Histo’y uh Ibogaine in de United States
and Europe by Kenned R. Alpuh’, Charles D. Kaplan and
Dana Beal offers some comprehensive descripshun uh de
ibogaine scene fum Academic Teachin’ Hospitals
t’underground treatment settin’s. Africa, De United
States, De Nederlands, Slovenia, Denmark and mo’e. Dis
chapta’ from Volume 56, De Alkaloids, published by
Academic Press places ibogaine science and politics in
puh’spective. Along wid ibogaine development gots come
da damn discovery uh second generashun ibogaine-likes
drugs. De Ibogaine Dossia’ presents an downdated stash
on de ibogaine congena’ 18-Medoxyco’onaridine. Includes
June 2002 abstract idenifyin’ 18-MC’s principal
metabolite. Dese is technical documents. An Advanced
Search page be now available. We particularly recommend
da damn Scirus science only search engine and Kartoo,
some search engine dat provides some visual map uh de
relashunship uh subject associated web pages. Very
interestin’! Right on! You’s kin now join not one but
two ibogaine lists. Lists allow members t’drow an email
t’a central clunker afta’ which de clunker drows yo’
message t’all members uh de list. Man! In turn, ya’
receive email fum oda’ list members. Join de lists and
view selected archives. Our scribblin’ shop provides
mo’e graphics and now offers new and impo’tant
scribblin’s. Excerpts, Reviews and tables uh contents
is included. Settle waaay down wid some baaaad
scribblin’ and gots some pleasant day. Slap mah fro!

___________________________________________________________________
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From: Bill Ross <ross@cgl.ucsf.EDU>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] free antidepressant
Date: August 28, 2002 at 11:13:27 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Bill, I just want to say, as someone who has suffered lifelong
from major depression, that St. John’s Wort is dandy for certain
limited kinds of depression, but is not an answer for everyone.

I make no claims for what it does, although I’ve read that
in Germany they will try it before prescribing pharmaceuticals
like SSRI’s.

My point was mainly that if one were low on cash and e.g. suffering
after kicking methadone, in a state such as (or near 🙂 Montana,
one might want to look for this free herb which has a lot of
literature on the web.

but depression is not sadness, not an emotion. Namaste, Jane

In cases of severe depression perhaps St. John’s Wort might
possibly be better than nothing in a pinch, but nothing I’ve seen
indicates that it is a cure for every type of depression.

Jane, I forget if you have ever posted anything about trying
ibogaine – if you have, it would be interesting to hear how it
affected your depression.

Bill

From: vector6@space.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] MTVox
Date: August 28, 2002 at 10:41:58 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

To put things into perspective because I’m not happy
and haven’t gone past duality yet. The highest hitting
ibogaine sites have less traffic then those two
outposts of good taste and great web design featuring
Bruce Fancher, Mindvox and the my lawyer can beat up
everyone in the world and Mr. Mittens.

http://www.kenkappel.com
http://www.mrmittens.com

beat

http://www.ibogaine.net
http://www.ibogaine.org

Most of the rest of the world is more interested in
drunken deranged rants and lawsuits and terrible
parodies of hip hop, then they are in a cure for
addiction.

I’m so sure that adding recovery links and writings
will do wonders to bring the Mindvox hit rate down from
outer space to whatever ghetto the rest of the recovery
sites live in.

I wouldn’t be so not happy if my email wasn’t dying in
5 or 6 hours and someone had never bothered to let me
even have a alias from mindvox 🙁

.:vector:.

On Mon, 26 August 2002, Carla Barnes wrote:

I don’t know what Curtis meant but to say what I
meant. I didn’t mean start another ibogaine site.
There are only 4 that really have any traffic
according to that site rating traffic system which I
think is run by amazon and google, called alexa.

Ibogaine.net and .org are in the top 200,000 and
always within 5,000 places of each other. 3rd is
always Ibogaine Research Project, which has much less
on it then net and I think the last time Patrick
touched it was over a year ago and that was to remove
most of the contents. Whatever the reasons for it it’s
usually somewhere in the 200,000 to 300,000 range.
Then 300,000 to 400,000 is ibogaine.co.uk.

Mindvox is at 16,000. High Times is at 15,000. No
matter how many banners or links Mindvox runs for
ibogaine, it doesn’t look like there is enough
interest for any of the ibogaine sites to pass
200,000. It’s not happening.

Patrick wrote a whole series of ibogaine articles and
recovery after ibogaine without the steps or therapy,
for almost 2 years now. There are 15, 17 of them now.
That’s about 20,000 words about ibogaine and recovery,
nobody has ever written that before and all of them
are sunk in that magazine Heroin Times where it’s
impossible to ever find anything.

All I suggested was to sort those and put them online
mindvox itself. Mindvox keeps getting filled with more
and more material but all of it is artistic, there
isn’t one word about recovery anywhere on Mindvox
itself. Not one!

My suggestion was to make the material he already
wrote available from within Mindvox where there is a
much higher hit rate and more people would see it. Or
at least put it on one of the ibogaine sites. That’s
all. I didn’t say anyone should do some huge amount of
extra work.

Carla B

— AndriaE@aol.com wrote:
&gt; I’m gonna do my intervening Mama thing again! I
got
&gt; the impression that PK
&gt; already had too much on??
&gt; Are there not already sites on the internet where
&gt; people can obtain
&gt; onformation about Ibogaine? Some one please
inform
&gt; us
&gt; Love andria
&gt;

__________________________________________________

___________________________________________________________________
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From: Jack Honeycutt <jhoneycutt@qwest.net>
Subject: [ibogaine] free antidepressant
Date: August 28, 2002 at 10:42:26 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

At 05:56 PM 8/28/2002 -0700, you wrote:

Here’s a free antidepressant that e.g. covers over 500,000 acres
of Montana:

http://www.mtweed.org/Identification/st__john_s_wort/st__john_s_wort.html

Bill Ross

I don’t want to start a war, but on the news about 4 to 6 weeks ago, results of a large St. John’s Wort, double blind scientific study was released.  It showed that it had no effect on depression what so ever.

Someone could probably look up the journal article and list the citation for all of us.  Then we can read it and pick it apart.  But for my money, I think it is not effective at all.

But please note that my cat sleeping in bed with me, lessens my migraines. That has never been proven in any scientific study. So to each, his or her own.

Peace,

jack in Portland Oregon

From: Jellking <jellking@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] free antidepressant
Date: August 28, 2002 at 10:02:42 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Bill, I just want to say, as someone who has suffered lifelong
from major depression, that St. John’s Wort is dandy for certain
limited kinds of depression, but is not an answer for everyone.  I’m
only writing this cuz people (me for one at one time) put off getting
more serious help when they think the problem is other things than
what it is, and that there are “free” cures, etc.  As a mood
elevator, SJW can be delightful for many, and can help ease sadness,
but depression is not sadness, not an emotion. Namaste, Jane

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

From: Bill Ross <ross@cgl.ucsf.EDU>
Subject: [ibogaine] free antidepressant
Date: August 28, 2002 at 8:56:44 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Here’s a free antidepressant that e.g. covers over 500,000 acres
of Montana:

http://www.mtweed.org/Identification/st__john_s_wort/st__john_s_wort.html

Bill Ross

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine better then any other detox?
Date: August 28, 2002 at 7:43:57 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Wed, Aug 28, 2002 at 07:41:26PM -0400], [preston peet] wrote:

| >”I took ibogaine and had no more desire to take any drugs.”  Happy now?<
|
| I’m reasonably happy now, thanks for asking.;-))
| Peace,
| Preston

That’s cool, ‘cuz being happy is good.  Vs. being miserable which is bad.
Of course these are absolutes and illusions of duality which do not really
exist, thus presenting a paradox.

I like paraxodes, they make me happy.

Patrick

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine better then any other detox?
Date: August 28, 2002 at 7:41:26 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>”I took ibogaine and had no more desire to take any drugs.”  Happy now?<

I’m reasonably happy now, thanks for asking.;-))
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Patrick K. Kroupa
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 7:09 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine better then any other detox?

On [Wed, Aug 28, 2002 at 04:45:53PM -0500], [Jose Merina] wrote:

| Patrick, you’re a very intelligent person, a good writer, a interesting
| person. I am going to use one quote which I found nearly perfect which
| comes from a subscriber to one of your mindvox lists. ‘Patrick is what
| would happen if someone pushed William Burroughs into a swimming pool
| filled with LSD’ You have a great deal to say which is very interesting,
| this entire Mindvox site you have here I have no idea what it means but
| it looks to be extremely popular. I have no doubt that in 5 or 10 years
| I’ll be able to go to the movie theatre and see a movie about your life.

That’s good to know.  Please be sure to purchase at least 500 tickets.
Thank you.

| Is there something I overlooked? Is there some difference between how
| people respond to ibogaine now instead of 20 years ago? Is the ibogaine
| a different quality?

There were some issues with the street urchin sweat shoppe manufactured
batches of ibogaine, but these have all been sorted out.  Production
facilities have been relocated to Belize.  All is well.

| I took a lot of time to write my thoughts

That’s great, everyone needs a hobby.

| And including even Patrick into this, not one of you has ever said ‘I
| took ibogaine and had no more desire to take any drugs’ which is a
| prominent quote in the Ibogaine Story Staten Island Project. Not one has
| said anything close to that.

“I took ibogaine and had no more desire to take any drugs.”  Happy now?

Patrick

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] [bruce@iterative.com: [voxadm] http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/2218456.stm]
Date: August 28, 2002 at 7:26:41 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

From: “Bruce Fancher” <bruce@iterative.com>
Subject: [voxadm] http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/2218456.stm
Date: August 28, 2002 at 6:25:13 PM EDT
To: <voxadm@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: voxadm@mindvox.com

Jedi ‘religion’ grows in Australia

Jedi is the faith espoused in the Star Wars films

More than 70,000 people in Australia have declared that they are
followers of the Jedi faith, the religion created by the Star Wars
films.
A recent census found that one in 270 respondents – or 0.37% of the
population – say they believe in “the force”, an energy field that gives
Jedi Knights like Luke Skywalker their power in the films.

Most of the 70,509 people who wrote Jedi on their census forms were
suspected to have done so in response to an e-mail encouraging all Star
Wars fans to get it recognised as an official religion.

Jedi Master Yoda: “You must feel the force around you”

But the majority do not seriously tell each other: “May the force be
with you”, according to Australian Star Wars Appreciation Society
president Chris Brennan.

“When you look at it you probably have got about 5,000 people in that
70,000 that were true hard-core people that would believe the Jedi
religion carte blanche,” he told ABC Radio.

“Then you would have 50,000 fans that said ‘oh yeah we’ll just put down
Jedi for fun, we don’t actually have a religion of our own’.

“Then you probably have 15,000 people who did it just to give the
government a bit of curry,” he said.

‘Not defined’

An e-mail was sent around the world in 2001 saying that if 10,000 people
declared they were Jedi, it would be recognised as an official religion.

But the Australian Bureau of Statistics said it would be categorised as
“not defined”.

Thousands of people in New Zealand and the UK also followed the advice
of the e-mail – with Jedi Knight even being included on the list of
religions by UK census authorities.

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine better then any other detox?
Date: August 28, 2002 at 7:09:43 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Wed, Aug 28, 2002 at 04:45:53PM -0500], [Jose Merina] wrote:

| Patrick, you’re a very intelligent person, a good writer, a interesting
| person. I am going to use one quote which I found nearly perfect which
| comes from a subscriber to one of your mindvox lists. ‘Patrick is what
| would happen if someone pushed William Burroughs into a swimming pool
| filled with LSD’ You have a great deal to say which is very interesting,
| this entire Mindvox site you have here I have no idea what it means but
| it looks to be extremely popular. I have no doubt that in 5 or 10 years
| I’ll be able to go to the movie theatre and see a movie about your life.

That’s good to know.  Please be sure to purchase at least 500 tickets.
Thank you.

| Is there something I overlooked? Is there some difference between how
| people respond to ibogaine now instead of 20 years ago? Is the ibogaine
| a different quality?

There were some issues with the street urchin sweat shoppe manufactured
batches of ibogaine, but these have all been sorted out.  Production
facilities have been relocated to Belize.  All is well.

| I took a lot of time to write my thoughts

That’s great, everyone needs a hobby.

| And including even Patrick into this, not one of you has ever said ‘I
| took ibogaine and had no more desire to take any drugs’ which is a
| prominent quote in the Ibogaine Story Staten Island Project. Not one has
| said anything close to that.

“I took ibogaine and had no more desire to take any drugs.”  Happy now?

Patrick

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Returned post for ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: August 28, 2002 at 7:04:17 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Wed, Aug 28, 2002 at 06:03:03PM -0500], [Jose Merina] wrote:

| —– Original Message —–
|
| Why is my message being censored?
|
| Jose Merina

Because [1], you are posting from an account that is not subscribed to the
list.  Thus, it goes into queue and has to be released by hand.  The queue
mostly contains spam, viruses, and crap.

[2], I hit the wrong key — whoopsie — and it sent you a rejection
message.  I fIxEd it and released your message.  Go to whatever account
you use to receive the list and there it is in all its glory.

Patrick

From: Bill Ross <ross@cgl.ucsf.EDU>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine better then any other detox?
Date: August 28, 2002 at 7:09:34 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Is there some difference between how people respond to ibogaine
now instead of 20 years ago? Is the ibogaine a different quality?

Howard has observed that it seems to take twice as much ibogaine
these days, and he speculated that some other drug that was popular
in the 70’s might have potentiated it, perhaps methamphetamine.

It seems there are positive reports of craving and withdrawal
symptoms being alleviated, but aside from possibly the Mash study
(not remembering that one well), it seems no one has done the
followup to demonstrate ibogaine’s long-term effectiveness
against addiction. I suspect that this may be because it depends
on the individual in the end, and the real hurdles are after the
detox. Obviously the legal status and research funding play a part
in the lack of definitive results as well.

The one patient report I’ve seen of the Mash operation portrayed
most of the clients as terminally spoiled and not interested in
long-term recovery. As you have observed, the folks on this list
are unusual, and it remains a slight possibility that only unusual
ex-junkies would choose to participate online like this. However,
given the amount of not-unusual people on the net in general,
this stretches the imagination. (In case it isn’t obvious,
virtually all I know about addiction comes from reading the ibo
lists, so this is a detached observer summary.)

Bill Ross

From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Returned post for ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: August 28, 2002 at 7:08:50 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I don’t think you were censored, I got your previous [lengthy] post

beware of glitches in the matrix…

-gamma

— Jose Merina <josemerina@usa.com> wrote:

—– Original Message —–

Why is my message being censored?

Jose Merina

From: ibogaine-owner@mindvox.com
Date: 28 Aug 2002 21:34:44 -0000
To: josemerina@usa.com
Subject: Returned post for ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi! This is the ezmlm program. I’m managing the
ibogaine@mindvox.com mailing list.

I’m working for my owner, who can be reached
at ibogaine-owner@mindvox.com.

I’m sorry, your message (enclosed) was not accepted by the moderator.
If the moderator has made any comments, they are shown below.


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From: “Jose Merina” <josemerina@usa.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: Returned post for ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: August 28, 2002 at 7:03:03 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–

Why is my message being censored?

Jose Merina

From: ibogaine-owner@mindvox.com
Date: 28 Aug 2002 21:34:44 -0000
To: josemerina@usa.com
Subject: Returned post for ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi! This is the ezmlm program. I’m managing the
ibogaine@mindvox.com mailing list.

I’m working for my owner, who can be reached
at ibogaine-owner@mindvox.com.

I’m sorry, your message (enclosed) was not accepted by the moderator.
If the moderator has made any comments, they are shown below.


__________________________________________________________
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From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine better then any other detox?
Date: August 28, 2002 at 6:40:39 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hi, i think i left Mexico too early. i was there 5 days think if i would have stayed it would be different…..I’ll never know now….i just feel like shit i hope it goes away soon..also i loved the ibogaine….i use to trip alot when i was  young…chex this out i wanted to be Jim Morrison so i drank all the time and did acid & mescaline i was in my teens then….now 41

From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] For Karina with love we care
Date: August 28, 2002 at 6:35:48 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

thanks  but i do not remember feeling so bad when i kicked methadone in jail when i was in my 20’s i am 41 now have hep c eat like shit no appetite……….it has to be cause i took all those pills …and yes i will breath..k

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] what happened over the wknd?
Date: August 28, 2002 at 6:30:59 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

beat the conference; what do u mean?
a

From: Joatammmo23@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] what happened over the wknd?
Date: August 28, 2002 at 6:27:00 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You can all count on me to be at the “Harm Reduction conference”.  The knowledge that one comes away with is strengthening and positive, and it’s going to be great this year.

JO

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] MTVox
Date: August 28, 2002 at 6:26:40 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

SOUND WOMAN; so have u decided whether u wanna write about your work 4 the next UV yet?

a

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine better then any other detox?
Date: August 28, 2002 at 6:19:27 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Mayb what you’ve overlooked is that most of us don’t beleive in miracles; we worked hard to achieve our sobriety and we are earthed & grounded this way
If u wanna see miracles, check out some religious/spiritual communities who go for that kind of thing
Otoh, the fact that I don’t shoot dope on a daily basis anymore though my life has included endless violence, rapes, many losses due to friends dying from AIDS and/or OD’s and other stuff, is probably what u might describe as a miracle

Are you a doctor, or?

Thanx for yr comments

andria mordaunt/U.K.
Director of advocacy/skills project for drug users affected by AIDS and/or HCV

From: Joatammmo23@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] MTVox
Date: August 28, 2002 at 6:18:13 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Personally,  I think that ist’s very hard to motivate patients on methadone.  AMMOs patient members were never given the proper amount of time to develop their group.
With the DEA closing Omaha’s only clinic back in 99  had to take who – (administrative staff) – we received, while our former clinic “Equilibra” was closed at a kangaroo court.

The new place (after promising AMMO an office and computer) renig,  as soon as the new operation opened.  I still hand out materials, to make sure that patients that are NEW to methadone maintenance , or someone that needs information on “Harm Reduction”, HCV and HIV gets the information that they need.
.
JO/AMMO…

From: “Jose Merina” <josemerina@usa.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Ibogaine better then any other detox?
Date: August 28, 2002 at 5:45:53 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

After reading this list for nearly 4 months and being interested in what ibogaine can do for drug addiction I offer the following comments without intending to disrespect anyone.

Patrick, you’re a very intelligent person, a good writer, a interesting person. I am going to use one quote which I found nearly perfect which comes from a subscriber to one of your mindvox lists. ‘Patrick is what would happen if someone pushed William Burroughs into a swimming pool filled with LSD’ You have a great deal to say which is very interesting, this entire Mindvox site you have here I have no idea what it means but it looks to be extremely popular. I have no doubt that in 5 or 10 years I’ll be able to go to the movie theatre and see a movie about your life.

I don’t know who or what you are exactly but it’s not normal. I don’t know what normal means either but let me say that you are different then most addicts I’ve dealt with and leave it at that.

Most if not all of the people who write to this list who have written about their life changing experiences with ibogaine fall into the same category. They are not the norm.

From the Dr. Mash crowd there is nearly noone who has ever written anything here. There are 3 or 4 at most who look like they say something every few months, ad in a lot of resentment and anger and then leave. I don’t know if that is them, all wealthy people on drugs or just the few who write anything here. But it’s not very impressive.

From the Mexico crowd, I’m not sure who detoxed there but from the two in the last month. Neither one is what I would call a great success story. This in no way means disrespect for their efforts I don’t know Rick’s patient or why he only lasted a few days after the detox and Karina is obviously struggling.

What I can say is neither case is very impressive or speaks much about why ibogaine is better then any other detox.

I see people struggling to maintain sobriety. I see people who should not be taking ibogaine in the first place dying. I see I high level of intelligence in the main ‘clique’ of ibogaine supporters here, but I see absolutely nothing that sets this group apart from any other group of addicts trying to remain sober. I don’t see any great life changing experiences being posted here.

The most positive experience I think I have read from this list comes from Curtis who wasn’t even on any drugs at the time he took it.

I have seen nothing at all that resembles the life changing ibogaine experiences that Howard recounts of early experiments with ibogaine on the ibogaine.org web site and in the book that is online Cures not Wars. The closest thing you have to that is Patrick and once more no disrespect, but I have read Mindvox. You are gifted and you’re not the norm. You also look like you’ve followed up ibogaine with about a gallon of LSD and who knows how many other psychedelics.

If ibogaine is the solution to drug addiction, then I think all of you need to go back to the drawing board. I have to admit that nobody here has ever said that it did not detox them. I give you that. But what happens to all these people afterwards is about average and no better or worse then any other drug treatment being offered today.

Is there something I overlooked? Is there some difference between how people respond to ibogaine now instead of 20 years ago? Is the ibogaine a different quality?

I took a lot of time to write my thoughts I don’t write long messages or type fast. I am not putting anyone down I see very intelligent people, I see kind people trying to help each other. I don’t have anything very negative to say except I am just not seeing any miracles taking place.

And including even Patrick into this, not one of you has ever said ‘I took ibogaine and had no more desire to take any drugs’ which is a prominent quote in the Ibogaine Story Staten Island Project. Not one has said anything close to that.

Sincerely, Jose Merina


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From: Bill Ross <ross@cgl.ucsf.EDU>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] For Karina with love we care
Date: August 28, 2002 at 4:37:27 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hi bill thanks i cannot afford to buy anything unless it will
for sure help me…….

Breathing is free and might work best anyway 🙂

Bill

From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] A Rosarito Beach Story
Date: August 28, 2002 at 3:37:26 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks for that correction.

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

randyhencken@hotmail.com 08/28/02 03:26PM >>>
To be accurate the patient’s second dose was 6 mg/kg.

Randy Hencken
Ibogaine Association
www.ibogaine-therapy.net

From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] A Rosarito Beach Story
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 14:22:07 -0400

A former methadone patient, Male, age 22, Wt. 270 lbs., traveled to
Rosarito Beach two weeks ago.  He was placed on Morphine for two days
prior to Ibogaine administration.  He was given 17 Mg/kg.  He
experienced Phase I onset of “a buzzing noise,” followed by
dream-like
hallucinations for approx. 5-6 hours.  He denied experiencing any
extra-cultural material during this phase.  He did experience seeing
a
former patient here that OD’d a few months ago.  After approx. 3-4
hours, he felt like walking around and ended up vomiting.  Phase I
lasted approx. 6 hours.  He denied having any cravings or physical
withdrawal thru the experience.  He then slept, and when he awoke, he
reportedly was experiencing withdrawal symptoms and related that he
was
dosed again at 17 Mg/kg.  During treatment he was monitored every 30
minutes (BP and Pulse).   He reported that after he returned to this
area, he continued to experience some residual symptoms…weakness,
cramping in legs, and sleeplessness.  He stated that he had no
cravings
upon his return…”1 or 2″ on 10 pt. scale.  The next day, however,
he
was “laying around” and the thought of experiencing “that first high”
bothered him throughout the day until he used.  He reports that he
only
used on one occasion.  The word on the street indicates he has been
using on a daily basis following his return.

Unfortunately, a phone call to me has been his only contact since his
treatment.  Hopefully, I’ll have a chance to speak with him in
greater
detail.

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

<< RickVenglarcik.vcf >>

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

From: “Randy Hencken” <randyhencken@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] A Rosarito Beach Story
Date: August 28, 2002 at 3:26:43 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

To be accurate the patient’s second dose was 6 mg/kg.

Randy Hencken
Ibogaine Association
www.ibogaine-therapy.net

From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] A Rosarito Beach Story
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 14:22:07 -0400

A former methadone patient, Male, age 22, Wt. 270 lbs., traveled to
Rosarito Beach two weeks ago.  He was placed on Morphine for two days
prior to Ibogaine administration.  He was given 17 Mg/kg.  He
experienced Phase I onset of “a buzzing noise,” followed by dream-like
hallucinations for approx. 5-6 hours.  He denied experiencing any
extra-cultural material during this phase.  He did experience seeing a
former patient here that OD’d a few months ago.  After approx. 3-4
hours, he felt like walking around and ended up vomiting.  Phase I
lasted approx. 6 hours.  He denied having any cravings or physical
withdrawal thru the experience.  He then slept, and when he awoke, he
reportedly was experiencing withdrawal symptoms and related that he was
dosed again at 17 Mg/kg.  During treatment he was monitored every 30
minutes (BP and Pulse).   He reported that after he returned to this
area, he continued to experience some residual symptoms…weakness,
cramping in legs, and sleeplessness.  He stated that he had no cravings
upon his return…”1 or 2″ on 10 pt. scale.  The next day, however, he
was “laying around” and the thought of experiencing “that first high”
bothered him throughout the day until he used.  He reports that he only
used on one occasion.  The word on the street indicates he has been
using on a daily basis following his return.

Unfortunately, a phone call to me has been his only contact since his
treatment.  Hopefully, I’ll have a chance to speak with him in greater
detail.

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

<< RickVenglarcik.vcf >>

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] For Karina with love we care
Date: August 28, 2002 at 3:11:07 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hi i loved the ibogaine i tried to get acid here in fuckin Reno NV hell no….i use to trip all the time i love it……Reno sucks…..karina

From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] For Karina with love we care
Date: August 28, 2002 at 3:07:05 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

chris, i don’t feel like before i started using..i feel like shit and i took 4 doses of ibogaine….it got me off the methadone……..that’s what i wanted i fucked up by taking pills….karina

From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] For Karina with love we care
Date: August 28, 2002 at 3:04:23 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

if i ever get the energy i want to go to go to a health food store and ask what is a sure help for detoxing………cause if they tell me something and it does not help i’m taking it back……my hubby will take me this week-end…k

From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] For Karina with love we care
Date: August 28, 2002 at 3:01:20 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Brett, not right now i can’t just stop the meds they are non addicting..and if i did not have the trazadone i think i would kill myself that’s the only way i get sleep…..once i wake up that’s it no sleep till the next trazadone and my husband is my dispenser of meds i don’t need to go to rehab………….i just hate this speedy feeling then i would be OK………luv karina

From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] For Karina with love we care
Date: August 28, 2002 at 2:57:25 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hi bill thanks i cannot afford to buy anything unless it will for sure help me…….I’m still here feeling like shit…i couldn’t go back on methadone unless i pee dirty for heroin i am not going there…and the $750 for the ibogaine for nothing…….i live in Reno NV and meth clinics cost $185-$224 a month and i am not working……yeah right….karina

From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] For Karina with love we care
Date: August 28, 2002 at 2:54:00 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hi no I’m not sick of hearing from you……if i had my way i would be back on methadone..but here in Reno i would have to piss dirty for heroin and I’m not going to do that and also the $750 for the ibogaine……hell no hell i kicked in jail many times…i have to do this ……i hate it but play pay……me karina

From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] cost of methadone
Date: August 28, 2002 at 1:42:07 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

According to R. Gerlach, http://www.indro-online.de/patientnumbers.htm,
the number of Methadone patients in Slovenia was “1,240 (as of December
31, 1999.”  Calculating the avg. dose at 80 mg., it looks as though
Slovenia pays about 5 cents US per Mg.  Are they using oral concentrate
or diskettes?  10,000 Mg. of Methadone costs us $78 US…or .0078 of a
cent per Mg.  I don’t have any info. at my fingertips re: diskette
costs…it’s buried in the receptionist’s desk.  I’ll ask her to dig the
info. out tomorrow if I remember.  But I recall that there wasn’t a very
big difference between the two, but I’ll recheck to verify.  Perhaps the
Slovenian purchasers are getting scalped…the rich pay less, the poor
pay more.

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

Iboga@guest.arnes.si 08/28/02 09:33AM >>>
It’s from the letter that our Social Security (called Zavod za
Zdravstveno
Zavarovanje Slovenije) sent me at 11/21/2001 upon my request. It’s all
in
slovene Tolars; name is very similar to dollars, but I had to divide
with
225  – that’s approx. how many Tolars you needed to buy one US$ in the
year
2000.

They couldn’t tell me the price of Methadone (which I speciffically
asked),
for they do not pay for it directly, but refund whoever pays for it

Marko

At 14:21 28.8.2002, you wrote:
Marko,
Where did you obtain this figure.  I’d like to look at the issue
a
bit further.  Thanks.

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

Iboga@guest.arnes.si 08/27/02 04:29PM >>>
At 18:14 27.8.2002, you wrote:
Is that 1.75 million US$ for methadone ALONE, or is this figure
representative of clinic income, service costs, salaries, etc.?

This 1,75 million US$ was for Methadone alone in year 2000.

Marko

Rechecked my info.  A bottle of yummy Mallinckrodt Cherry
concentrate
contains 10,000 Mg. of methadone. (10 Mg/mL @1000 mL per bottle).
We
pay $78 per bottle.  We are thus paying .0078 per Mg.  Pretty cheap
stuff.  Clinic overhead…doctor and counselor salaries, head
honcho
salary, nurses, receptionist, UA’s, lights, rent, etc.  add
significantly to a patient’s bottom line.

We dispensed 389,898 Mg. in July
Cost of Methadone was $3,041.
Avg. patient fee is $49.20 per week.
Avg. # of patients is 158
Avg. dose is 79 Mg.
Estimated Monthly take: ~$33k per month.

Thus…methadone itself (oral concentrate, anyway)…she be cheap.
Costs us .008 of a cent per Mg.  We charge 8 cents per Mg to pay
all
the
overhead.

I’ll have to see if I can dig up the info. on diskettes…it may
be
significantly different…as if anyone besides myself gives a rat’s
ass.

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

Iboga@guest.arnes.si 08/26/02 02:58PM >>>
If this helps, in the year 2000 slovene Methadone centers
distributed
for
around 1,75 million US$ worth of Methadone. I don’t know how many
“patients”  they had, or how many doses that was, but 14 Methadone
centers
and one detox clinic (10 beds) costed (including Methadone) around
4
million US$ in the year 2000.

Slovenija has around 2 million souls, and medical personel
(included
doctors) have MUCH lower salaries than in USA.

(in case you’d like to do some more calculations ;-))

Marko

At 19:46 26.8.2002, you wrote:

Calculating at .07 cents per day x Avg. Dose, x # of meth.
patients
in
the US alone brings us to a figure of about one million per day.
I
know
that when I looked into all this a few months ago, the profit was
nowhere near a million per day…and at that time, I had
calculated
by
the number of clinics world-wide to arrive at the amount of $ was
being
pulled in by Methadone manufacturers.  Thus, the cost per Mg. of
methadone is .007 per Mg.  “I know for a fact that it wasn’t”
refers
to
it not being .07, as I had calculated profit on world-wide
figures
and
arrived at less than one million $ per day.  Hope that makes it
more
clear.  Unfortunately, I am unable to find the document I
prepared
with
all this info.  It’s probably at home.  I’ll see if I can find
it.

All the info was collated from the net as far as # of methadone
patients in the US and world-wide, Avg. Dose, and # of clinics
world-wide.  The cost info. was obtained from our bills from
Roxane.
Some people play video games for entertainment…I do useless
little
research exercises.

If this is inaccurate info., I would appreciate any input.

It must have been .007 cents, as .07 per Mg. actually amts. to
one
million $ per day based on US meth. clinics…and I know for a
fact
that
it wasn’t.

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

AndriaE@aol.com 08/26/02 12:33PM >>>
U know 4 a fact that it wasn’t what Rick?

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] For Karina with love we care
Date: August 28, 2002 at 1:42:32 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Wed, Aug 28, 2002 at 02:37:14AM -0400], [ElGrekkko] wrote:

| When I read about plants such as ibogaine, I cannot even consider them
| ‘meds.’ They do something else entirely, in the way they work into and work
| with the body to cure you. Again, there’s that tribe in Africa  that lives
| and breaths the Eboga experience. It is something much more than a med.
| Ibogaine seems to be something you become; you become it, it becomes you,
| and together you work with it to free yourself from sickness. The stuff that
| Patrick said about it in that article people were talking about rather blew
| me away. He said it resets your mind. It makes you the way you were before
| you became addicted. This is amazing psychology. This is years of therapy,
| all done in one experience. This is that blank slate that so many people
| want at points in their lives, when they’re tired of all the shit and want
| to start over. Ibogaine gives this to you.

I’m doin’ 25 things right now and can’t really address this at length, but
just as a brief note: that wasn’t an article, it was just a letter that
sort of ran away and splattered itself all over the place through the
aegis of Dana’s newsletter.

Brain and mind are not the same thing.  By brain I mean a reset of
neuroadaptions that have taken place due to chronic, long-term
administration of exogenous substAnceS.  This does not mean a reset of all
your neuroses and a rewrite of your underlying psychopathology.

Although it certainly CAN make a big dent in all of that and provide a lot
of insight.  But this is highly random and depends on the individual; who
they are, what they want, and how much effort they are wiling to invest.

However, I really wouldn’t recommend dosing yourself with ibogaine for the
exclusive purpose of gaining spiritual insights, or psychological balance.
You would be MUCH better off with LSD.  LSD will take you a lot further
in; it is one of the safest drugs that has ever existed; and for the most
part people really don’t know exactly where their molecules come from,
what the exact dosage they’re taking really is, or even how to use it.

With acid none of this matters much.  If you don’t educate yourself and
just do whatever; it may take you for a very interesting and unplanned
journey, but it isn’t going to kill you.  If you’re not very careful,
ibogaine can do just that.

Psychedelic therapy isn’t a new idea.  While mainstream science has killed
off most of the research taking place with entheogens, there is a pretty
large classic collection of stuff available at the Psychedelic Library.

http://www.psychedelic-library.org/lsdmenu.htm

Rick Doblin’s thing MAPS, also funds, promotes, and publishes various
research with psychedelics taking place in the here and now.

http://www.maps.org/

| I wonder how long term this resetting of the mind is, and I wonder what else
| it can reset? How about the cigarrette addiction?

Yeah, it works for cigarettes.

Patrick

From: Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] cost of methadone
Date: August 28, 2002 at 9:33:35 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

It’s from the letter that our Social Security (called Zavod za Zdravstveno Zavarovanje Slovenije) sent me at 11/21/2001 upon my request. It’s all in slovene Tolars; name is very similar to dollars, but I had to divide with 225  – that’s approx. how many Tolars you needed to buy one US$ in the year 2000.

They couldn’t tell me the price of Methadone (which I speciffically asked), for they do not pay for it directly, but refund whoever pays for it

Marko

At 14:21 28.8.2002, you wrote:
Marko,
Where did you obtain this figure.  I’d like to look at the issue a
bit further.  Thanks.

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

>>> Iboga@guest.arnes.si 08/27/02 04:29PM >>>
At 18:14 27.8.2002, you wrote:
>Is that 1.75 million US$ for methadone ALONE, or is this figure
>representative of clinic income, service costs, salaries, etc.?

This 1,75 million US$ was for Methadone alone in year 2000.

Marko

>Rechecked my info.  A bottle of yummy Mallinckrodt Cherry concentrate
>contains 10,000 Mg. of methadone. (10 Mg/mL @1000 mL per bottle).  We
>pay $78 per bottle.  We are thus paying .0078 per Mg.  Pretty cheap
>stuff.  Clinic overhead…doctor and counselor salaries, head honcho
>salary, nurses, receptionist, UA’s, lights, rent, etc.  add
>significantly to a patient’s bottom line.
>
>We dispensed 389,898 Mg. in July
>Cost of Methadone was $3,041.
>Avg. patient fee is $49.20 per week.
>Avg. # of patients is 158
>Avg. dose is 79 Mg.
>Estimated Monthly take: ~$33k per month.
>
>Thus…methadone itself (oral concentrate, anyway)…she be cheap.
>Costs us .008 of a cent per Mg.  We charge 8 cents per Mg to pay all
the
>overhead.
>
>  I’ll have to see if I can dig up the info. on diskettes…it may be
>significantly different…as if anyone besides myself gives a rat’s
>ass.
>
>_____________________________________
>Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
>Hampton Roads Clinic
>2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
>Hampton,  VA  23666
>
>Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
>Fax:  (757) 826-2772
>Cell: (757) 270-9839
>_____________________________________
>
>
> >>> Iboga@guest.arnes.si 08/26/02 02:58PM >>>
>If this helps, in the year 2000 slovene Methadone centers distributed
>for
>around 1,75 million US$ worth of Methadone. I don’t know how many
>”patients”  they had, or how many doses that was, but 14 Methadone
>centers
>and one detox clinic (10 beds) costed (including Methadone) around 4
>million US$ in the year 2000.
>
>Slovenija has around 2 million souls, and medical personel (included
>doctors) have MUCH lower salaries than in USA.
>
>(in case you’d like to do some more calculations ;-))
>
>Marko
>
>
>At 19:46 26.8.2002, you wrote:
>
> >Calculating at .07 cents per day x Avg. Dose, x # of meth. patients
>in
> >the US alone brings us to a figure of about one million per day.  I
>know
> >that when I looked into all this a few months ago, the profit was
> >nowhere near a million per day…and at that time, I had calculated
>by
> >the number of clinics world-wide to arrive at the amount of $ was
>being
> >pulled in by Methadone manufacturers.  Thus, the cost per Mg. of
> >methadone is .007 per Mg.  “I know for a fact that it wasn’t”
refers
>to
> >it not being .07, as I had calculated profit on world-wide figures
>and
> >arrived at less than one million $ per day.  Hope that makes it
more
> >clear.  Unfortunately, I am unable to find the document I prepared
>with
> >all this info.  It’s probably at home.  I’ll see if I can find it.
> >
> >All the info was collated from the net as far as # of methadone
> >patients in the US and world-wide, Avg. Dose, and # of clinics
> >world-wide.  The cost info. was obtained from our bills from
Roxane.
> >Some people play video games for entertainment…I do useless
little
> >research exercises.
> >
> >If this is inaccurate info., I would appreciate any input.
> >
> > > It must have been .007 cents, as .07 per Mg. actually amts. to
one
> >million $ per day based on US meth. clinics…and I know for a fact
>that
> >it wasn’t.
> >
> >_____________________________________
> >Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
> >Hampton Roads Clinic
> >2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
> >Hampton,  VA  23666
> >
> >Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
> >Fax:  (757) 826-2772
> >Cell: (757) 270-9839
> >_____________________________________
> >
> >
> > >>> AndriaE@aol.com 08/26/02 12:33PM >>>
> >U know 4 a fact that it wasn’t what Rick?
>
>
>

From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] cost of methadone
Date: August 28, 2002 at 8:21:26 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Marko,
Where did you obtain this figure.  I’d like to look at the issue a
bit further.  Thanks.

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

Iboga@guest.arnes.si 08/27/02 04:29PM >>>
At 18:14 27.8.2002, you wrote:
Is that 1.75 million US$ for methadone ALONE, or is this figure
representative of clinic income, service costs, salaries, etc.?

This 1,75 million US$ was for Methadone alone in year 2000.

Marko

Rechecked my info.  A bottle of yummy Mallinckrodt Cherry concentrate
contains 10,000 Mg. of methadone. (10 Mg/mL @1000 mL per bottle).  We
pay $78 per bottle.  We are thus paying .0078 per Mg.  Pretty cheap
stuff.  Clinic overhead…doctor and counselor salaries, head honcho
salary, nurses, receptionist, UA’s, lights, rent, etc.  add
significantly to a patient’s bottom line.

We dispensed 389,898 Mg. in July
Cost of Methadone was $3,041.
Avg. patient fee is $49.20 per week.
Avg. # of patients is 158
Avg. dose is 79 Mg.
Estimated Monthly take: ~$33k per month.

Thus…methadone itself (oral concentrate, anyway)…she be cheap.
Costs us .008 of a cent per Mg.  We charge 8 cents per Mg to pay all
the
overhead.

I’ll have to see if I can dig up the info. on diskettes…it may be
significantly different…as if anyone besides myself gives a rat’s
ass.

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

Iboga@guest.arnes.si 08/26/02 02:58PM >>>
If this helps, in the year 2000 slovene Methadone centers distributed
for
around 1,75 million US$ worth of Methadone. I don’t know how many
“patients”  they had, or how many doses that was, but 14 Methadone
centers
and one detox clinic (10 beds) costed (including Methadone) around 4
million US$ in the year 2000.

Slovenija has around 2 million souls, and medical personel (included
doctors) have MUCH lower salaries than in USA.

(in case you’d like to do some more calculations ;-))

Marko

At 19:46 26.8.2002, you wrote:

Calculating at .07 cents per day x Avg. Dose, x # of meth. patients
in
the US alone brings us to a figure of about one million per day.  I
know
that when I looked into all this a few months ago, the profit was
nowhere near a million per day…and at that time, I had calculated
by
the number of clinics world-wide to arrive at the amount of $ was
being
pulled in by Methadone manufacturers.  Thus, the cost per Mg. of
methadone is .007 per Mg.  “I know for a fact that it wasn’t”
refers
to
it not being .07, as I had calculated profit on world-wide figures
and
arrived at less than one million $ per day.  Hope that makes it
more
clear.  Unfortunately, I am unable to find the document I prepared
with
all this info.  It’s probably at home.  I’ll see if I can find it.

All the info was collated from the net as far as # of methadone
patients in the US and world-wide, Avg. Dose, and # of clinics
world-wide.  The cost info. was obtained from our bills from
Roxane.
Some people play video games for entertainment…I do useless
little
research exercises.

If this is inaccurate info., I would appreciate any input.

It must have been .007 cents, as .07 per Mg. actually amts. to
one
million $ per day based on US meth. clinics…and I know for a fact
that
it wasn’t.

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

AndriaE@aol.com 08/26/02 12:33PM >>>
U know 4 a fact that it wasn’t what Rick?

From: “ElGrekkko” <ElGrekkko@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] For Karina with love we care
Date: August 28, 2002 at 2:37:14 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Then, there is always ibogaine. My thoughts are; I
would like to see you off all “meds” for a month but
that I do believe it will likely do you good.

Brett

When I read about plants such as ibogaine, I cannot even consider them
‘meds.’ They do something else entirely, in the way they work into and work
with the body to cure you. Again, there’s that tribe in Africa  that lives
and breaths the Eboga experience. It is something much more than a med.
Ibogaine seems to be something you become; you become it, it becomes you,
and together you work with it to free yourself from sickness. The stuff that
Patrick said about it in that article people were talking about rather blew
me away. He said it resets your mind. It makes you the way you were before
you became addicted. This is amazing psychology. This is years of therapy,
all done in one experience. This is that blank slate that so many people
want at points in their lives, when they’re tired of all the shit and want
to start over. Ibogaine gives this to you.
I wonder how long term this resetting of the mind is, and I wonder what else
it can reset? How about the cigarrette addiction? Obsessive compulsive
behaviour? Can it reset this too? Would you need several ibogaine
experiences to keep the mind reset? I imagine so. But why not? The way it
seems to take you deeply inside of yourself, and to show you things you need
to face…It seems like his is something that anyone who has been hurting
him or herself needs.

http://www.ibogaine.org/fernandez.html
http://billstclair.com/blog/stories/ibogaine.html

chris

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] For Karina with love we care
Date: August 27, 2002 at 8:34:49 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Guys
I’ve got some DLPA here. I read 30 pages of a book on it, and I discovered that it takes some time for it to work as  painkiller/build up in your system and so didn’t get into it. I’m still one of those who wants her pain-controlled NOWish please, so.. in the long term though, perhaps I shoulda given more effort, cos I have to take small amounts of paincontrol each and every day..

U lot have got me et it now: thinking sensibly I mean! G, this is catching!!!

andria

From: “ElGrekkko” <ElGrekkko@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] For Karina with love we care
Date: August 27, 2002 at 8:30:05 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m interested in phenylaline too, Brett? I know you know some things, if
you’d care to share. I looked for it today while getting my insulin, but
didn’t see it. This was a K-mart. I know an herb store would have it, but I
want to go cheap and just get a small taste of it before I decide to pay
more money for it. SAM-e is about 20 bucks at places like that, and they’re
saying very good things about its ability to counteract depression.

chris

—– Original Message —–
From: “Bill Ross” <ross@cgl.ucsf.EDU>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2002 8:00 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] For Karina with love we care

Hi, bill have you ever taken this di-phenylalanine??????

No – looking at the net, it seems like it helps for depression and
feelings of “hopelessness and helplessness” in general – in this
study at least, it worked in 7 of 9 cases, apparently within 5 days
(depending on the person):

http://www.orthomed.org/links/papers/tobdep.htm

That’s the only study I found, the rest on Google were all ads.

Bill

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] For Karina with love we care
Date: August 27, 2002 at 8:28:47 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— Mzzthangg13@aol.com wrote:
Brett i need your opinion…am i feeling like shit
from the methadone or the
pills that i have stop taking or both?????i’m weak
have no energy…i force

Likely both.  In time energy will return, more or
less, sooner or later.

my self to get out of bed i am taking hotbaths but
everything is such an
effort am taking vitamins and fish oil…….when i

It is part of the detox process.

A standard “detox tea” from the health food store
might help clean you out faster. FYI, a side effect is
sometimes it causes a bit more of a bad
feeling/tiredness as the toxins are released.

get the money i will try
what you suggested   i am not working i get
unemployment  but i really do not
have extra $$$$  for anything the only reason i got
the pills i used my
sisterinlaws insurance……typical drug addict huh

Very good gwass-hoppa.

i just need to know why i
am feeling these things….luv karina

Feeling bad when you stop taking substances you are
addicted to is very normal, every addict goes through
their own version of it.

Then, there is always ibogaine. My thoughts are; I
would like to see you off all “meds” for a month but
that I do believe it will likely do you good.

Brett

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

From: Bill Ross <ross@cgl.ucsf.EDU>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] For Karina with love we care
Date: August 27, 2002 at 8:00:31 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi, bill have you ever taken this di-phenylalanine??????

No – looking at the net, it seems like it helps for depression and
feelings of “hopelessness and helplessness” in general – in this
study at least, it worked in 7 of 9 cases, apparently within 5 days
(depending on the person):

http://www.orthomed.org/links/papers/tobdep.htm

That’s the only study I found, the rest on Google were all ads.

Bill

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] For Karina with love we care
Date: August 27, 2002 at 7:59:13 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

And Karine U know what; this is YOUR life. We are not the ones going through this at the moment; it is likely that U know what’s best for your own body right now: all we are doing is giving u some pointers to consider, based our own detox/recovery experiences.
Guess who?! U fed up of hearing from me yet?!
andria

From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] For Karina with love we care
Date: August 27, 2002 at 7:33:39 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

belive me i am listening to all the good advice..i am 41 yrs old yes my hubby is so good…..that’s what keeps me going karina

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] For Karina with love we care
Date: August 27, 2002 at 7:21:36 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Karina huni

U r still alive cos U wanna be, And hey your husband sounds like a pretty cool reason to live, eh? Bills’ advice to you was good; try it & C!
The main thing to remember is – this current suffering will pass. I promise you that – u just gotta stay with it till it does, and when the panic and despair graba hold of u, just BREATHE.
As Bill said, U r doing the right things – so hangon in there
How old are you now BTW?

I started drugs when I was 12 too. TOO YOUNG, and actually my last detox (when I was 33) was HELL, but all that u describe; no energy, panics, insomnia etc passed for me within 5 weeks of my last shot. As it happens, I didn’t do pills, but went straight into a day program and they gave me the following affirmation, which REALLY helped

“My name is andria, and I am X no of days drugs-free today” – then everybody would clap! It was loopy but IT WORKED!

You’re so brave to be doing what u r doing; give yourself a break and recognise how heroic u r actually being

C ya

Andria xo

From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] For Karina with love we care
Date: August 27, 2002 at 6:49:54 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi, bill have you ever taken this di-phenylalanine?????? I’m just going day by day this has to get better…..i started doind drugs at  12yrs old i have never been clean either drugs drinking or both…this is a 1st for me…….i have no energy and do not want to do anything i do force myself to clean the house,laundry, and cook…….but my husband who is really the best helps me and tells me to rest the only problem is he has never been around a “real” drug addict he snorted speed and drank all the time but 2 weeks after we were married he quit had the shakes for a weak he only does pot before he goes to bed that’s it…….so it’s hard for him to know what’s up with me……karina guess who my idol is jim morrison…….go figure…..i wanted to be just like him……but i’m still alive i do not know why?

From: Bill Ross <ross@cgl.ucsf.EDU>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] For Karina with love we care
Date: August 27, 2002 at 6:34:23 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

am i feeling like shit from the methadone or the
pills that i have stop taking or both?????i’m weak have
no energy…i force my self to get out of bed i am taking
hotbaths but everything is such an effort am taking vitamins
and fish oil…..

I’m not Brett, but here goes:

It sounds like you are taking care of yourself.. one reason for the
shit feeling may be that you have used drugs to hold down something
psychological, and without the drugs that thing beginning to manifest
itself and is putting you into a panic. If so, the good news is that
if you can take care of the panic, the symptoms might ease.

We get into the habit of running, and keep it up long after the thing
that alarmed us is gone or we have grown up enough to fight it.

With this in mind, I suggest trying to ease yourself by focussing on
breathing. Just think about that (breathing in), see how long you can
do it (breathing out), and keep restarting when you get thrown off. If
you have to stop for a while, you can always go back to it – it’s
there for you 🙂

Bill

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] For Karina with love we care
Date: August 27, 2002 at 6:25:32 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Mrs woman!! Typical drug addict? There u go again – giving yourself a hard time..

U r a woman going through a temporary illness, which will pass. That’s it, and perhaps the only way to know whether its the meds making u feel this way is to stop taking them or at least reduce them slowly and c what happens

Sorry to not be Brett!

Strength and BIG hug

andria

From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] For Karina with love we care
Date: August 27, 2002 at 6:12:12 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Brett i need your opinion…am i feeling like shit from the methadone or the pills that i have stop taking or both?????i’m weak have no energy…i force my self to get out of bed i am taking hotbaths but everything is such an effort am taking vitamins and fish oil…….when i get the money i will try what you suggested   i am not working i get unemployment  but i really do not have extra $$$$  for anything the only reason i got the pills i used my sisterinlaws insurance……typical drug addict huh i just need to know why i am feeling these things….luv karina

From: Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si>
Subject: [ibogaine] cost of methadone
Date: August 27, 2002 at 4:29:10 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

At 18:14 27.8.2002, you wrote:
Is that 1.75 million US$ for methadone ALONE, or is this figure
representative of clinic income, service costs, salaries, etc.?

This 1,75 million US$ was for Methadone alone in year 2000.

Marko

Rechecked my info.  A bottle of yummy Mallinckrodt Cherry concentrate
contains 10,000 Mg. of methadone. (10 Mg/mL @1000 mL per bottle).  We
pay $78 per bottle.  We are thus paying .0078 per Mg.  Pretty cheap
stuff.  Clinic overhead…doctor and counselor salaries, head honcho
salary, nurses, receptionist, UA’s, lights, rent, etc.  add
significantly to a patient’s bottom line.

We dispensed 389,898 Mg. in July
Cost of Methadone was $3,041.
Avg. patient fee is $49.20 per week.
Avg. # of patients is 158
Avg. dose is 79 Mg.
Estimated Monthly take: ~$33k per month.

Thus…methadone itself (oral concentrate, anyway)…she be cheap.
Costs us .008 of a cent per Mg.  We charge 8 cents per Mg to pay all the
overhead.

I’ll have to see if I can dig up the info. on diskettes…it may be
significantly different…as if anyone besides myself gives a rat’s
ass.

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

>>> Iboga@guest.arnes.si 08/26/02 02:58PM >>>
If this helps, in the year 2000 slovene Methadone centers distributed
for
around 1,75 million US$ worth of Methadone. I don’t know how many
“patients”  they had, or how many doses that was, but 14 Methadone
centers
and one detox clinic (10 beds) costed (including Methadone) around 4
million US$ in the year 2000.

Slovenija has around 2 million souls, and medical personel (included
doctors) have MUCH lower salaries than in USA.

(in case you’d like to do some more calculations ;-))

Marko

At 19:46 26.8.2002, you wrote:

>Calculating at .07 cents per day x Avg. Dose, x # of meth. patients
in
>the US alone brings us to a figure of about one million per day.  I
know
>that when I looked into all this a few months ago, the profit was
>nowhere near a million per day…and at that time, I had calculated
by
>the number of clinics world-wide to arrive at the amount of $ was
being
>pulled in by Methadone manufacturers.  Thus, the cost per Mg. of
>methadone is .007 per Mg.  “I know for a fact that it wasn’t” refers
to
>it not being .07, as I had calculated profit on world-wide figures
and
>arrived at less than one million $ per day.  Hope that makes it more
>clear.  Unfortunately, I am unable to find the document I prepared
with
>all this info.  It’s probably at home.  I’ll see if I can find it.
>
>All the info was collated from the net as far as # of methadone
>patients in the US and world-wide, Avg. Dose, and # of clinics
>world-wide.  The cost info. was obtained from our bills from Roxane.
>Some people play video games for entertainment…I do useless little
>research exercises.
>
>If this is inaccurate info., I would appreciate any input.
>
> > It must have been .007 cents, as .07 per Mg. actually amts. to one
>million $ per day based on US meth. clinics…and I know for a fact
that
>it wasn’t.
>
>_____________________________________
>Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
>Hampton Roads Clinic
>2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
>Hampton,  VA  23666
>
>Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
>Fax:  (757) 826-2772
>Cell: (757) 270-9839
>_____________________________________
>
>
> >>> AndriaE@aol.com 08/26/02 12:33PM >>>
>U know 4 a fact that it wasn’t what Rick?

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] For Karina with love we care
Date: August 27, 2002 at 3:43:00 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Karina

— Mzzthangg13@aol.com wrote:
Brett i always love when you email me i don’t know
why but it makes me feel
alittle better…and yes i will try those things you

Maybe cause if someone sicker than you can do it, you
can too?

told me about….guess

You need to work with someone who really understands
about this stuff – and listen. I know it is hard, it
just doesn’t seem important, a pain in the ass,
whatever – LOOK OUTSIDE OF THE BOX… Just gotta
listen, do, act-as-if and yeah, it ain’t gonna feel
good and your (addiction, disease, whatever you want
to call it) is going to manipulate you and scream
bloody murder.

what i had a script for vicodin and i threw it

Congradulations or shit, should have sent it to me
<g>, I need a refill (kidding, I’m sure the doc will
be more than happy).

away……i have always had
insomnia that’s why i take trazadone i swear i am

Right now might not be the time to stop it – but,
there are other ways to get rid of insomnia and the
drugs that you take – which are very likely not doing
you good. Sleeping aids really fuck with you, they
suppress REM sleep (often). It takes time to get rid
of the baggage and the fear but many if not all
medications can be stopped and/or natural
products/nutrition/exercise… can make more of a
positive difference than any drugs you cound ever
take.

staying away from  the
doctors and pills that are addicting cause i keep
having to start
over…..

Duh…

fuck that i have to do and i will hugs

Take it a piece at a time sure BUT there is a
difference when that becomes an excuse. The GOAL is to
use no drugs at all – need em or not, even if it is
unrealistic – so, ya don’t have to reach the goal, but
reach FOR IT. If it turns out you need a med, fine, be
real careful what it is – I have discovered some
amazing very subtle (though NOT) reactions I have to
many medications – when you watch mood closely. It
doesn’t jump out at ya but it is a little Jekyl and
Hyde from even NON-NARCOTIC meds. Many meds I cannot
take because they effect me (certain pain meds for
instance), so I take others, sometimes they don’t
“WORK” as well but they don’t screw with my head – OR
I know how long I can take a med before I
start-a-drug-addict-thinking – or there is no
solution, I just can’t take that kind of medication.
In a way, it comes down to where I want pain or where
I don’t want it and how much of it I wish to make for
myself (or not)…

Watch yourself, watch what you do – not from a
critical/beat yourself up watching, like you are
watching someone elses actions and thoughts.

With love,
Brett

karina

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] For Karina with love we care
Date: August 27, 2002 at 2:58:37 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Brett i always love when you email me i don’t know why but it makes me feel alittle better…and yes i will try those things you told me about….guess what i had a script for vicodin and i threw it away……i have always had insomnia that’s why i take trazadone i swear i am staying away from  the doctors and pills that are addicting cause i keep having to start over…..fuck that i have to do and i will hugs karina

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick.sandberg@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Question ::: HCL incremental doseage over time
Date: August 27, 2002 at 1:34:24 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: “sara glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2002 9:55 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Question ::: HCL incremental doseage over time

That Guy who sold iboga root died two week after taking iboga extract at
my
home ,
he was drinking a lot ,was 52 years of age and had along history of
drinking
,
one night after heavly drinking ,his heart gave up .

I use to give his product to people who like to stop smoking  ,

Hi Sara,

Was that the guy called Chiel Coenen, or something like that?

Nick

—– Original Message —–
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick.sandberg@btinternet.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2002 4:18 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Question ::: HCL incremental doseage over time

—– Original Message —–
From: “Gamma” <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2002 3:50 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] Question ::: HCL incremental doseage over time

anyone here familiar with low dose HCl spread over time –

[I’m thinking 50-100mgs/day spread over a week-?]

– for someone with a light vicodin habit who isn’t interested in a
full
on
“head cleaner” all-at-once experience.

-dh

Most definitely worth a try in my opinion. Make sure your friend doesn’t
drive for a living, operate heavy machinery, lift pianos up the sides of
buildings, etc. I’ve done work with low doses of HCl a couple of times
and
rootbark another, neither for addiction problems, but the effects are
noticeable and can be cumulative. Someone told me about doing 100mg a
day
for a week or two once, they said there was a gradual effect then one
day
a
powerful spiritual experience. Also, a guy in Amsterdam sells low dose
rootbark packages for addicts with some reported good effects, though
the
guy himself seems to drink a lot and has depressive episodes. The site
is
listed somewhere on my options page at www.ibogaine.co.uk/options.htm

Generally, I’d say it’s well worth experimenting with low doses without
excessive expectation.

Nick

From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Question ::: HCL incremental doseage over timeAmen
Date: August 27, 2002 at 12:14:39 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Is that 1.75 million US$ for methadone ALONE, or is this figure
representative of clinic income, service costs, salaries, etc.?

Rechecked my info.  A bottle of yummy Mallinckrodt Cherry concentrate
contains 10,000 Mg. of methadone. (10 Mg/mL @1000 mL per bottle).  We
pay $78 per bottle.  We are thus paying .0078 per Mg.  Pretty cheap
stuff.  Clinic overhead…doctor and counselor salaries, head honcho
salary, nurses, receptionist, UA’s, lights, rent, etc.  add
significantly to a patient’s bottom line.

We dispensed 389,898 Mg. in July
Cost of Methadone was $3,041.
Avg. patient fee is $49.20 per week.
Avg. # of patients is 158
Avg. dose is 79 Mg.
Estimated Monthly take: ~$33k per month.

Thus…methadone itself (oral concentrate, anyway)…she be cheap.
Costs us .008 of a cent per Mg.  We charge 8 cents per Mg to pay all the
overhead.

I’ll have to see if I can dig up the info. on diskettes…it may be
significantly different…as if anyone besides myself gives a rat’s
ass.

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

Iboga@guest.arnes.si 08/26/02 02:58PM >>>
If this helps, in the year 2000 slovene Methadone centers distributed
for
around 1,75 million US$ worth of Methadone. I don’t know how many
“patients”  they had, or how many doses that was, but 14 Methadone
centers
and one detox clinic (10 beds) costed (including Methadone) around 4
million US$ in the year 2000.

Slovenija has around 2 million souls, and medical personel (included
doctors) have MUCH lower salaries than in USA.

(in case you’d like to do some more calculations ;-))

Marko

At 19:46 26.8.2002, you wrote:

Calculating at .07 cents per day x Avg. Dose, x # of meth. patients
in
the US alone brings us to a figure of about one million per day.  I
know
that when I looked into all this a few months ago, the profit was
nowhere near a million per day…and at that time, I had calculated
by
the number of clinics world-wide to arrive at the amount of $ was
being
pulled in by Methadone manufacturers.  Thus, the cost per Mg. of
methadone is .007 per Mg.  “I know for a fact that it wasn’t” refers
to
it not being .07, as I had calculated profit on world-wide figures
and
arrived at less than one million $ per day.  Hope that makes it more
clear.  Unfortunately, I am unable to find the document I prepared
with
all this info.  It’s probably at home.  I’ll see if I can find it.

All the info was collated from the net as far as # of methadone
patients in the US and world-wide, Avg. Dose, and # of clinics
world-wide.  The cost info. was obtained from our bills from Roxane.
Some people play video games for entertainment…I do useless little
research exercises.

If this is inaccurate info., I would appreciate any input.

It must have been .007 cents, as .07 per Mg. actually amts. to one
million $ per day based on US meth. clinics…and I know for a fact
that
it wasn’t.

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

AndriaE@aol.com 08/26/02 12:33PM >>>
U know 4 a fact that it wasn’t what Rick?

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Letter fr. HRC Confirming Ibo Panel at Seattle Conf.
Date: August 27, 2002 at 8:34:24 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Alison

I don’t know u; the message was for Dana mainly

Andria

From: “Alison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Letter fr. HRC Confirming Ibo Panel at Seattle Conf.
Date: August 27, 2002 at 8:27:27 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Was that message for me, Andria.  If it was I didn’t get it at all.  What are you on about???  Allison
—–Original Message—–
From: AndriaE@aol.com <AndriaE@aol.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Date: Tuesday, 27 August 2002 06:30
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Letter fr. HRC Confirming Ibo Panel at Seattle Conf.

Allison

This is conference-speak; get used to it Maam! (1 of the London connections here..)

So Dana; who’s gonna be on your panel?

You and ?

andria

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This is cool
Date: August 27, 2002 at 7:20:00 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

OH yeah, that’s it, it’s the 7 letters thing.;-))
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Carla Barnes
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2002 2:12 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This is cool

It’s a really good letter. It was posted here in part
maybe a few weeks ago when it went out. I think it was
email between Dana, Howard, Patrick, Rob Lake or Rich
Lake (the MAPinc person on the Drugwar list) and Dave
Michon who I don’t know who that is.

The scary things Patrick is saying is that drug
dependence is a choice not a disease after ibogaine.
If I ran a rehab it might make me unhappy but I don’t
get all the fuss.

Which makes me wonder if a dark cloud is passing
overhead. I talked with Brett off list and here and I
see Gamma’s posts and it’s almost like everyone is
having a hard time right now. Except Patrick and
Preston, who are still Patrick and Preston.

What’s it all mean. People whose names start with P
and are 7 letters long have an eaisier time? 😉

Carla B

— Rebecca Silverman <becca_vail@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Patrick, this is really great and really you.
>
> In case you ever had doubt why all the aftercare
> people here hate you, this
> explain it. This is that crypto anarchist
> libertarian drug person’s
> commentary on what you wrote.
>
> All of what you say is totally opposite of a disease
> model of addiction.
>
> That scares a lot of people who make their living
> using that model 🙂
>
> You could tone it down a little 🙂
>
> http://billstclair.com/blog/020723.html
>
> Patrick K. Kroupa – Ibogaine Works
> <stories/ibogaine.html> – an email from a
> heroin lover (done it since the age of 14) giving a
> good view of how he sees
> “addiction”, his opinion of “detox” methods, and how
> Ibogaine works for him.
> I like the way this guys mind works. Copied from
> Dana Beal’s email
> newsletter. [cures-not-wars
> <http://www.cures-not-wars.org/>]
>
> Ibogaine is NOT a “cure” for drug addiction,
> although it very well may be
> the greatest solution for drug-dependence. It will
> NOT magically rewrite
> everything inside your head, it will not hand you a
> brand new life, and it
> will never make all your memories of how great
> heroin is; go away.
>
> HOWEVER: It *DOES* bring you back to the point where
> you are making CHOICES
> and NOT following compulsions.
>
> …
>
> Yeah, I’m way-fucked, I light up half the DSM, I’m
> manic-depressive as hell,
> dysfunctional, and I LOVE heroin… However, after a
> lifetime of using the
> shit… I have 3 years completely clear off ALL
> opiates/opioids. If I ever
> make the CHOICE to use heroin again, it will be just
> that; a CHOICE that I
> make.
>
> Heroin rocks. I will always know that, I have
> learned it, I cannot unlearn
> it. But it is no longer this force beyond my control
> which is compelling me
> to keep chasing the shit, no matter what the
> consequences happen to be (and
> with our wonderful “War on Drugs,” they can be
> pretty fucking insane).
>
> …
>
> What ibogaine appears to do is his a <RESET> on your
> brain. Saying that
> “addiction” (by which I mean drug-dependence. I am
> talking about the changes
> that take place on a neurological basis, in response
> to chronic, long-term
> self-administration of dope) is reversible, isn’t
> exactly correct either.
>
> What it appears to do is reset your brain to a point
> BEFORE you ever became
> drug-dependent in the first place. Addiction, what
> addiction?
>
>
> >From: “Curtis  Hersch”
> <crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com>
> >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >CC: drugwar@mindvox.com
> >Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This is cool
> >Date: 27 Aug 2002 03:52:44 -0000
> >
> >This is so excellent.
> >
> >You must pull your writing out of that message and
> turn it into a article
> >or something. This is so very right on!
> >
> >Peace out,
> >Curtis (not stealing from Preston!)
> >
> >On Tue, 27 Aug 2002 vector6@space.com wrote :
> >>
> >>Where is this from? I’ve never seen this. Was this
> on
> >>the list at some time? This is fucking cool! Go
> >>Patrick! Go Dana!
> >>
> >>This is being linked crossblog like crazy which is
> why
> >>I found it. Cool!
> >>
> >>http://billstclair.com/blog/stories/ibogaine.html
> >>
> >>.:vector:.
> >>
> >>Ibogaine Works
> >>[From a cures-not-wars newsletter]
> >>From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital at phantom.com>
> >>To: “Dave Michon” <dajalyn at charter.net>
> >>Subject: [Response To]: Re: Fwd: Re: yr email
> >>
>
>>___________________________________________________________________
> >>Join the Space Program: Get FREE E-mail at
> http://www.space.com.
> >
>
>__________________________________________________________
> >Give your Company an email address like
> >ravi @ ravi-exports.com.  Sign up for Rediffmail
> Pro today!
> >Know more. http://www.rediffmailpro.com/signup/
>
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
> Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device:
> http://mobile.msn.com
>
>
>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This is cool
Date: August 27, 2002 at 2:12:22 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

It’s a really good letter. It was posted here in part
maybe a few weeks ago when it went out. I think it was
email between Dana, Howard, Patrick, Rob Lake or Rich
Lake (the MAPinc person on the Drugwar list) and Dave
Michon who I don’t know who that is.

The scary things Patrick is saying is that drug
dependence is a choice not a disease after ibogaine.
If I ran a rehab it might make me unhappy but I don’t
get all the fuss.

Which makes me wonder if a dark cloud is passing
overhead. I talked with Brett off list and here and I
see Gamma’s posts and it’s almost like everyone is
having a hard time right now. Except Patrick and
Preston, who are still Patrick and Preston.

What’s it all mean. People whose names start with P
and are 7 letters long have an eaisier time? 😉

Carla B

— Rebecca Silverman <becca_vail@hotmail.com> wrote:

Hi Patrick, this is really great and really you.

In case you ever had doubt why all the aftercare
people here hate you, this
explain it. This is that crypto anarchist
libertarian drug person’s
commentary on what you wrote.

All of what you say is totally opposite of a disease
model of addiction.

That scares a lot of people who make their living
using that model 🙂

You could tone it down a little 🙂

http://billstclair.com/blog/020723.html

Patrick K. Kroupa – Ibogaine Works
<stories/ibogaine.html> – an email from a
heroin lover (done it since the age of 14) giving a
good view of how he sees
“addiction”, his opinion of “detox” methods, and how
Ibogaine works for him.
I like the way this guys mind works. Copied from
Dana Beal’s email
newsletter. [cures-not-wars
<http://www.cures-not-wars.org/>]

Ibogaine is NOT a “cure” for drug addiction,
although it very well may be
the greatest solution for drug-dependence. It will
NOT magically rewrite
everything inside your head, it will not hand you a
brand new life, and it
will never make all your memories of how great
heroin is; go away.

HOWEVER: It *DOES* bring you back to the point where
you are making CHOICES
and NOT following compulsions.

Yeah, I’m way-fucked, I light up half the DSM, I’m
manic-depressive as hell,
dysfunctional, and I LOVE heroin… However, after a
lifetime of using the
shit… I have 3 years completely clear off ALL
opiates/opioids. If I ever
make the CHOICE to use heroin again, it will be just
that; a CHOICE that I
make.

Heroin rocks. I will always know that, I have
learned it, I cannot unlearn
it. But it is no longer this force beyond my control
which is compelling me
to keep chasing the shit, no matter what the
consequences happen to be (and
with our wonderful “War on Drugs,” they can be
pretty fucking insane).

What ibogaine appears to do is his a <RESET> on your
brain. Saying that
“addiction” (by which I mean drug-dependence. I am
talking about the changes
that take place on a neurological basis, in response
to chronic, long-term
self-administration of dope) is reversible, isn’t
exactly correct either.

What it appears to do is reset your brain to a point
BEFORE you ever became
drug-dependent in the first place. Addiction, what
addiction?

From: “Curtis  Hersch”
<crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
CC: drugwar@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This is cool
Date: 27 Aug 2002 03:52:44 -0000

This is so excellent.

You must pull your writing out of that message and
turn it into a article
or something. This is so very right on!

Peace out,
Curtis (not stealing from Preston!)

On Tue, 27 Aug 2002 vector6@space.com wrote :

Where is this from? I’ve never seen this. Was this
on
the list at some time? This is fucking cool! Go
Patrick! Go Dana!

This is being linked crossblog like crazy which is
why
I found it. Cool!

http://billstclair.com/blog/stories/ibogaine.html

.:vector:.

Ibogaine Works
[From a cures-not-wars newsletter]
From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital at phantom.com>
To: “Dave Michon” <dajalyn at charter.net>
Subject: [Response To]: Re: Fwd: Re: yr email

___________________________________________________________________
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From: “ElGrekkko” <ElGrekkko@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] Re: ibogaine and hep c
Date: August 27, 2002 at 12:37:41 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

| So what sort of emergency kit should one have handy, in this situation?

How ’bout: LEARN CPR.

Patrick

Whatever, cunt.

chris

From: “Rebecca Silverman” <becca_vail@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This is cool
Date: August 27, 2002 at 12:24:00 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Patrick, this is really great and really you.

In case you ever had doubt why all the aftercare people here hate you, this explain it. This is that crypto anarchist libertarian drug person’s commentary on what you wrote.

All of what you say is totally opposite of a disease model of addiction.

That scares a lot of people who make their living using that model 🙂

You could tone it down a little 🙂

http://billstclair.com/blog/020723.html

Patrick K. Kroupa – Ibogaine Works <stories/ibogaine.html> – an email from a heroin lover (done it since the age of 14) giving a good view of how he sees “addiction”, his opinion of “detox” methods, and how Ibogaine works for him. I like the way this guys mind works. Copied from Dana Beal’s email newsletter. [cures-not-wars <http://www.cures-not-wars.org/>]

Ibogaine is NOT a “cure” for drug addiction, although it very well may be the greatest solution for drug-dependence. It will NOT magically rewrite everything inside your head, it will not hand you a brand new life, and it will never make all your memories of how great heroin is; go away.

HOWEVER: It *DOES* bring you back to the point where you are making CHOICES and NOT following compulsions.

Yeah, I’m way-fucked, I light up half the DSM, I’m manic-depressive as hell, dysfunctional, and I LOVE heroin… However, after a lifetime of using the shit… I have 3 years completely clear off ALL opiates/opioids. If I ever make the CHOICE to use heroin again, it will be just that; a CHOICE that I make.

Heroin rocks. I will always know that, I have learned it, I cannot unlearn it. But it is no longer this force beyond my control which is compelling me to keep chasing the shit, no matter what the consequences happen to be (and with our wonderful “War on Drugs,” they can be pretty fucking insane).

What ibogaine appears to do is his a <RESET> on your brain. Saying that “addiction” (by which I mean drug-dependence. I am talking about the changes that take place on a neurological basis, in response to chronic, long-term self-administration of dope) is reversible, isn’t exactly correct either.

What it appears to do is reset your brain to a point BEFORE you ever became drug-dependent in the first place. Addiction, what addiction?

From: “Curtis  Hersch” <crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
CC: drugwar@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This is cool
Date: 27 Aug 2002 03:52:44 -0000

This is so excellent.

You must pull your writing out of that message and turn it into a article or something. This is so very right on!

Peace out,
Curtis (not stealing from Preston!)

On Tue, 27 Aug 2002 vector6@space.com wrote :

Where is this from? I’ve never seen this. Was this on
the list at some time? This is fucking cool! Go
Patrick! Go Dana!

This is being linked crossblog like crazy which is why
I found it. Cool!

http://billstclair.com/blog/stories/ibogaine.html

.:vector:.

Ibogaine Works
[From a cures-not-wars newsletter]
From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital at phantom.com>
To: “Dave Michon” <dajalyn at charter.net>
Subject: [Response To]: Re: Fwd: Re: yr email

___________________________________________________________________
Join the Space Program: Get FREE E-mail at http://www.space.com.

__________________________________________________________
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Know more. http://www.rediffmailpro.com/signup/

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

From: “Curtis Hersch” <crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] MTVox
Date: August 27, 2002 at 12:02:59 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

That is all that I meant!

And you should man! When you’re off all half cocked you are awesome bro. You’re smart, you’re funny, you’re crazy and you are so right on!

Peace out,
Curtis

On Tue, 27 Aug 2002 Carla Barnes wrote :

I don’t know what Curtis meant but to say what I
meant. I didn’t mean start another ibogaine site.
There are only 4 that really have any traffic
according to that site rating traffic system which I
think is run by amazon and google, called alexa.

Ibogaine.net and .org are in the top 200,000 and
always within 5,000 places of each other. 3rd is
always Ibogaine Research Project, which has much less
on it then net and I think the last time Patrick
touched it was over a year ago and that was to remove
most of the contents. Whatever the reasons for it it’s
usually somewhere in the 200,000 to 300,000 range.
Then 300,000 to 400,000 is ibogaine.co.uk.

Mindvox is at 16,000. High Times is at 15,000. No
matter how many banners or links Mindvox runs for
ibogaine, it doesn’t look like there is enough
interest for any of the ibogaine sites to pass
200,000. It’s not happening.

Patrick wrote a whole series of ibogaine articles and
recovery after ibogaine without the steps or therapy,
for almost 2 years now. There are 15, 17 of them now.
That’s about 20,000 words about ibogaine and recovery,
nobody has ever written that before and all of them
are sunk in that magazine Heroin Times where it’s
impossible to ever find anything.

All I suggested was to sort those and put them online
mindvox itself. Mindvox keeps getting filled with more
and more material but all of it is artistic, there
isn’t one word about recovery anywhere on Mindvox
itself. Not one!

My suggestion was to make the material he already
wrote available from within Mindvox where there is a
much higher hit rate and more people would see it. Or
at least put it on one of the ibogaine sites. That’s
all. I didn’t say anyone should do some huge amount of
extra work.

Carla B

— AndriaE@aol.com wrote:
> I’m gonna do my intervening Mama thing again! I got
> the impression that PK
> already had too much on??
> Are there not already sites on the internet where
> people can obtain
> onformation about Ibogaine? Some one please inform
> us
> Love andria
>

__________________________________________________________
Give your Company an email address like
ravi @ ravi-exports.com.  Sign up for Rediffmail Pro today!
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From: “Curtis Hersch” <crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This is cool
Date: August 26, 2002 at 11:52:44 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: drugwar@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This is so excellent.

You must pull your writing out of that message and turn it into a article or something. This is so very right on!

Peace out,
Curtis (not stealing from Preston!)

On Tue, 27 Aug 2002 vector6@space.com wrote :

Where is this from? I’ve never seen this. Was this on
the list at some time? This is fucking cool! Go
Patrick! Go Dana!

This is being linked crossblog like crazy which is why
I found it. Cool!

http://billstclair.com/blog/stories/ibogaine.html

.:vector:.

Ibogaine Works
[From a cures-not-wars newsletter]
From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital at phantom.com>
To: “Dave Michon” <dajalyn at charter.net>
Subject: [Response To]: Re: Fwd: Re: yr email

___________________________________________________________________
Join the Space Program: Get FREE E-mail at http://www.space.com.

__________________________________________________________
Give your Company an email address like
ravi @ ravi-exports.com.  Sign up for Rediffmail Pro today!
Know more. http://www.rediffmailpro.com/signup/

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] For Karina with love we care
Date: August 26, 2002 at 11:34:08 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This is long

Karina

Hi, I am serious about being clean….i just have a
low tolerance for pain
and a high tolerance for drugs

Me too, when I was using. For me, the more drugs I
take, the more pain I am in so I limit my use of them.
It is a chicken and egg thing. If you stopped taking
drugs your tolerence for them would go down and your
tolerence for pain – the pain itself actually (not
just how much of it you can take) will go UP. If I
take pain meds for any length of time it starts
effecting me and it takes me time to recover. Usually
I only take limited meds (not cause I am afraid of my
addiction) but in a couple days I have to stop, OR
ELSE!!! Sometimes things happen and have to take them
longer (say 2 weeks), it would take me a month of
really watching my pain meds (cause it just will hurt
more) to get back to normal……..

THe last couple weeks have been really bad for me
(physical pain). Finally, took a 7.5 vic, up all
night, throws my sleep off… did this for a couple
days, one at night – then still in pain,  had to stop
them – because they don’t work right if I don’t (in
other words they would royally fuck me up if I just
took them when it hurt). SO, 3 days pass and I give
in, another 3 days go by, literally in agony, day
after day. The 2 kinds of muscle relaxers are there,
Parfon Forte which is mild and doesn’t mess with my
head and SOMA – which I absolutely never take – cause
they FUCK ME UP (and I mean ever, got the script, took
1 and that was 4 years ago). Lets see, got some
tylenol #3’s, vicodin ES and some percs – humm, bet
those would go good with a couple beers. And ya know,
I do think like that when I really hurt bad – and let
me tell you, a couple percs and vics together would
have made me feel real good – oops, something hurt
over there, better take a few more. But I can’t do
that, it would be literally INSANE. Does it ever
happen, a little, VERY rarely and to a lesser degree.
I am just no longer willing to put myself through that
BULL SHIT addiction fuck with my own head, make my
life miserable shit any longer. What my head sometimes
tells me (those “EXCUSES”) are often very valid, hey,
I hurt, I should be able to take pain meds when I am
in pain – but I can’t successfully do that and NEITHER
CAN YOU. Sometimes I can take things for pain, not
always, not every time, I am aware of the SIDE EFFECTS
(where it fucks with my mind, that little fellow on my
shoulder that says “one more, one more and you will
feel better) and use them with caution and respect,
not fear or lacking them if they are not around.

Sorry but…

It is just the way it is. You will have to go through
the painfullness of getting clean one way or the other
as this is what you seem to be after. I agree you want
to get clean and have started in that direction. It
may take a few trys at it, you are doin OK, your
“reasoning” (tolerance for pain/drugs) is (IMO of
course) a blazing neon sign that says “ADDICT EXCUSE”
all over it, plain and simple (just in case you didn’t
know, thought I should point it out).

i am only
taking trazadone and
seroquil…they are not addicting….please tell me
why i feel like I am on
speed…..and I swear that’s all I am doing are

Have you tried not taking anything for any length of
time? It takes some adjusting to.

Have you tried that Rescue Remedy or dl-phenylalanine,
SAMe, what? – just doctors and medication???

I am trying to make a point that you need to do things
differently and try new things. What you are doing is
not exactly working very well. The Rescue Remedy and
dl-phenylalanine are BLAZING remedies for your
symptoms and you don’t seem to want to try anything
new and non-doctor prescribed. These are of course not
going to hit you over the head with a nice mind/mood
altering effect – other than to make you feel less
uncomfortable – but which is it, do you or do you not
want to feel more comfortable???

Go To

Grocery/healthfood/pharmacy

Pick-up DL-PHENYLALANINE aprox cost $6.00 for 50 500mg

Take 1 tab in the morning on an empty stomach or with
fruit/fruit juice and one at night, same way. Will it
improve so you are HIGH, no. Will you feel wonderful,
doubtful. Will it be better, almost certainly.

If you have any panics or high anxiety situations,
take the Rescue Remedy.

RESCUE REMEDY – tiny bottle with itsy bitsy dropper
with a zillion drops in it is about $12 – any health
food store. Keep it away from
light/heat/contamination.

You can look up either on the internet (with
“ADDICTION” or “DEPRESSION”) there will be numerous
references to both.

I don’t know how your diet is but it can have a
profound effect on how you feel, so can exercise. I
suggest you review these with some people who are in
recovery and use them.

those 2..when will I feel OK

Sometime after you stop taking drugs.

again I hate methadone, and me for going back o

You don’t have to. Hey, you took a big first step, you
can and will do this, in your own time. Ease up on
yourself (beating yourself) and start watching
yourself get clean (take a step back).

Bottom line, there is going to be discomfort you are
going to have to go through and there are ways you can
make it worse or you can make it better.

Brett
it……for me all the
people on the computer is my help….and they have
hotlines i can
call……karina

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

From: vector6@space.com
Subject: [ibogaine] This is cool
Date: August 26, 2002 at 10:28:36 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Where is this from? I’ve never seen this. Was this on
the list at some time? This is fucking cool! Go
Patrick! Go Dana!

This is being linked crossblog like crazy which is why
I found it. Cool!

http://billstclair.com/blog/stories/ibogaine.html

.:vector:.

Ibogaine Works
[From a cures-not-wars newsletter]
From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital at phantom.com>
To: “Dave Michon” <dajalyn at charter.net>
Subject: [Response To]: Re: Fwd: Re: yr email

___________________________________________________________________
Join the Space Program: Get FREE E-mail at http://www.space.com.

From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: ibogaine and hep c
Date: August 26, 2002 at 10:07:32 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

you go nick all you said is so true……..karina

From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] For Karina with love we care
Date: August 26, 2002 at 10:06:06 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

thank you i really hate this…but i am fighting everyday  i wish i never went on methadone can’t change the past i just wanted to say that……karina

From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] For Karina with love we care
Date: August 26, 2002 at 10:03:37 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi, I am serious about being clean….i just have a low tolerance for pain and a high tolerance for drugs……..i am only taking trazadone and seroquil…they are not addicting….please tell me why i feel like I am on speed…..and I swear that’s all I am doing are those 2..when will I feel OK again I hate methadone, and me for going back on it……for me all the people on the computer is my help….and they have hotlines i can call……karina

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] MTVox
Date: August 26, 2002 at 6:57:31 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I don’t know what Curtis meant but to say what I
meant. I didn’t mean start another ibogaine site.
There are only 4 that really have any traffic
according to that site rating traffic system which I
think is run by amazon and google, called alexa.

Ibogaine.net and .org are in the top 200,000 and
always within 5,000 places of each other. 3rd is
always Ibogaine Research Project, which has much less
on it then net and I think the last time Patrick
touched it was over a year ago and that was to remove
most of the contents. Whatever the reasons for it it’s
usually somewhere in the 200,000 to 300,000 range.
Then 300,000 to 400,000 is ibogaine.co.uk.

Mindvox is at 16,000. High Times is at 15,000. No
matter how many banners or links Mindvox runs for
ibogaine, it doesn’t look like there is enough
interest for any of the ibogaine sites to pass
200,000. It’s not happening.

Patrick wrote a whole series of ibogaine articles and
recovery after ibogaine without the steps or therapy,
for almost 2 years now. There are 15, 17 of them now.
That’s about 20,000 words about ibogaine and recovery,
nobody has ever written that before and all of them
are sunk in that magazine Heroin Times where it’s
impossible to ever find anything.

All I suggested was to sort those and put them online
mindvox itself. Mindvox keeps getting filled with more
and more material but all of it is artistic, there
isn’t one word about recovery anywhere on Mindvox
itself. Not one!

My suggestion was to make the material he already
wrote available from within Mindvox where there is a
much higher hit rate and more people would see it. Or
at least put it on one of the ibogaine sites. That’s
all. I didn’t say anyone should do some huge amount of
extra work.

Carla B

— AndriaE@aol.com wrote:
I’m gonna do my intervening Mama thing again! I got
the impression that PK
already had too much on??
Are there not already sites on the internet where
people can obtain
onformation about Ibogaine? Some one please inform
us
Love andria

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

From: Nicholas Labus <goosebumpz2002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] For Karina with love we care
Date: August 26, 2002 at 4:44:26 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

That is right what she is sayin abstinence is best but take it from
someone who is on methadone who went from street junkie/thief/lier
allthe way to having a decent job complete honsty about myself which
took the most time and still workin on.and i dont have to steal
today.Look gettin off the rugged streets is first and formost the
most important thing with love Nickthedick!
— preston peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Just to let you know Karina-
At one of the very last detox/treatment facilities I was at,
Staten Island University, one afternoon they had someone come in
and talk to us about Harm Reduction. He was the most radical
treatment-minded person I ever met in a treatment place. He said
to us all in the facility, “If I can get my clients/patients to
smoke pot instead of shooting up, that’s a success.” Something to
think about, and you don’t even necessarily have to smoke. You can
cook it or make tea. I know that the usual thing one hears in
treatment is complete abstinence, but reducing your current hurt
is the first and foremost thing in my mind at least. Pot may, (may
is key here, it is not assured) help you in a lot of ways.
Really, I’m thinking positively in your direction Karina, good
strong thoughts your way. There’s also methadone, which while you
will hear horrid things about it from many people, (even me
sometimes), and you may have even experienced some of them, it is
legal, and will get your out from under prohibitionist cops while
keep withdrawals at bay. Then you can stabilize and wait until you
KNOW you are ready to quit “getting high” and do it in a much more
friendly situation, IF you use the methadone to get where you want
to be, and not to simply have a legal, cheap high, (which sucks
anyway, to me at least, that methadone high). The fact you have a
loving husband just may be your saving grace, but you have to make
the definite decision that you REALLY WANT TO STOP GETTING
STRAIGHT, for YOU, not for anyone else. Having him there will help
immensely, but he can’t make you quit, no one and nothing can but
you.
Peace, respect, and again, positive thinking your way,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Carla Barnes
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 3:49 PM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] For Karina with love we care

Karina, hang in there! You remind me of me not so long
ago. Kerry mentioned that admitting you don’t know how
to stay sober is the first step, so before you end up
with another habit give some kind of recovery a try. I
don’t think anyone here has ever said to do nothing. I
also know alot of the people give the impression that
they do whatever they want, but Patrick, Dave,
Preston, so many of the really talented and crazy 😉
people on this list are more the exception then the
norm. And I think even all of them tried almost
everything to find out it didn’t work for them and
then did their own things. But all of them do
something.

Most people need some kind of help in staying sober!
If it was easy then the success rate wouldn’t be so
incredibly low. I think the long term rate is
something like 2% stay completely clean and maybe 5%
make it through after relapsing a few times. This
isn’t with ibogaine, these were recovery statistics I
read talking about in general. It concluded that the
success rate of staying off hard drugs is lower then
the cure rate for terminal cancer. It’s not easy! But
it is possible!

Carla B

— Andria Efthimiou-Mordaunt
<AndriaEM@drugscope.org.uk> wrote:
Hey Karina

And less of the self-flagellation honey! Know how
many times I went through
this roundabout, not to mention many thousands of
other addict drug users.

You are doing fine; you are staying on course with
your decision to stop and
that’s what you need to focus on, NOT beating up on
yourself

Which Rehab will you be going into? Is it
Minesssotta or something else?

Be kind to U

Love and solidarity

Andria

—–Original Message—–
From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
[mailto:Mzzthangg13@aol.com]
Sent: 22 August 2002 00:01
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] For Karina with love we care

hi i am still off methadone but i am a  big fuck up
i got strubg out on
vicodin and codine tomorrow i am going to
rehab…..they will detox me and
them tyry to help me stay off drugs……i asked my
husband if he wanted to
divorce me cause i am a no good addict he said no he
loved me very much and
will stick it out     that made me happy……i just
do not know what my
problem is…..i know better and still do
drugs……1st they will detox me
then try and help me find a way to stay off
drugs……….i feel so bad for
my husband it’s like i cannot help myself…..i am
41 and have been on drugs
my whole life except in jail…….i don’t know how
to stay clean but the
rehab said they will help me…….i will write
again when i am home……

__________________________________________________
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HotJobs – Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com

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From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] A Rosarito Beach Story
Date: August 26, 2002 at 4:40:06 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sarah
Trying to say something?
a

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine Death in Germany
Date: August 26, 2002 at 4:39:12 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanx for taking the time to look it up Brett
I am simply trying to get to the bottom of all this, so that what we put into our magazine (which is read by thousands of Users, and drug professionals, mainly in England/UK) but also around the world, is as accurate as it can be

I’d hate to misinform people especially when lives are at stake.

Andria Mordaunt
Editor/Users Voice

From: Nicholas Labus <goosebumpz2002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] A Rosarito Beach Story
Date: August 26, 2002 at 4:38:38 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thats too bad i will pray for him some people are just not ready!
— sara glatt <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:

—– Original Message —–
From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 8:22 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] A Rosarito Beach Story

A former methadone patient, Male, age 22, Wt. 270 lbs., traveled
to
Rosarito Beach two weeks ago.  He was placed on Morphine for two
days
prior to Ibogaine administration.  He was given 17 Mg/kg.  He
experienced Phase I onset of “a buzzing noise,” followed by
dream-like
hallucinations for approx. 5-6 hours.  He denied experiencing
any
extra-cultural material during this phase.  He did experience
seeing a
former patient here that OD’d a few months ago.  After approx.
3-4
hours, he felt like walking around and ended up vomiting.  Phase
I
lasted approx. 6 hours.  He denied having any cravings or
physical
withdrawal thru the experience.  He then slept, and when he
awoke, he
reportedly was experiencing withdrawal symptoms and related that
he was
dosed again at 17 Mg/kg.  During treatment he was monitored
every 30
minutes (BP and Pulse).   He reported that after he returned to
this
area, he continued to experience some residual
symptoms…weakness,
cramping in legs, and sleeplessness.  He stated that he had no
cravings
upon his return…”1 or 2″ on 10 pt. scale.  The next day,
however, he
was “laying around” and the thought of experiencing “that first
high”
bothered him throughout the day until he used.  He reports that
he only
used on one occasion.  The word on the street indicates he has
been
using on a daily basis following his return.

Unfortunately, a phone call to me has been his only contact
since his
treatment.  Hopefully, I’ll have a chance to speak with him in
greater
detail.

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

—————————————————————————-
—-

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From: Nicholas Labus <goosebumpz2002@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine tripping
Date: August 26, 2002 at 4:35:11 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

gosh that really sounds great i believe that total abstinece is the
key to a great life if you can get a good cleansing hear and there
thats awsome i wish i could experience that im on methadone strictly
and dtoxin slowly i feel like im dirty and uncleansed but i know i
can feel clean again its just hard knowing how!!P.S. thanx for the
hope
— Andria Efthimiou-Mordaunt <AndriaEM@drugscope.org.uk> wrote:
Hey Curtis

Thanx for this beautiful and uplifting message.

LSD is not compulsory!

This is often a mantra I have when I feel pressure from ANYWHERE;
since I
have a tendency to be easily pushed into self-destructive things –
it works
well as a mantra. Besides, I’m personally of the opinion that a
good few
years completely sobre is the best thing given the decade or more
of abuse.
Certainly my 5 yrs unbroken abstinence was one of the most stable
periods of
my life, where I achieved more, loved more and OF COURSE! played
more. I
think I learnt to 10-pin bowl during that time; it was wild!

Just another story from London

Solidarity & Strength

Andria

—–Original Message—–
From: Curtis Hersch [mailto:crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com]
Sent: 19 August 2002 01:52
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine tripping

Hey bro thanks for the thoughtful reply. I did not have a habit
when I dosed I have been clean of heroin for about 2 years now
maybe a little longer if you count strictly heroin and not the odd

pill here and there when someone have some good d 4’s I could not
pass up.

I’ve read so many different experiences happening here but for me
when I did it my intent was like healing or wanting to just be in
a better place. I didn’t have any huge expectation and thought
I’ll trip. I did not have a real bad trip I mean I went to some
darkness and cried afterwards and had some upheavels but what it
really feels like is just this total cleansing.

Reading some of what’s on here I probably did not need to dose at
the range I did to just have a spiritual kick off from it, but
right now it’s strange. It is like a total cleansing. I feel good!

I’ve felt not that good for so long I think I forgot what it’s
like. I’m not on cloud 9 or anything but I’m happy man. Life feels

good. It’s hard to explain but little things I always took for
granted I’m happy for and it’s good to wake up in the morning.

I do not think I am ready to personally become a psychedelic
gateway to different planes like Patrick and I’m not really
fiending for acid like karina but let me say that I have lost a
lot of my fear and when acid comes into my life I won’t be hiding
from it, because I’ve been so afraid to trip for a long time and
so much of what I thought about all the time was just not doing
heroin.

I don’t feel that way anymore. I feel good!

Peace out,
Curtis

On Thu, 15 Aug 2002 Nick Sandberg wrote :

Hi Curtis,

Mostly I figure ibogaine unloads you of what’s going on beneath
the surface.
If there’s big backlog of stuff waiting to be emptied out, like
the recycle
bin, then it tries to dump the lot during the session. This is
one reason
why some people trip like crazy and others not so much. I’d get a

lot of
emotional stuff for hours then feel really clean for days
afterward, like
all the things in the way of me being who I wanted to be were
gone.

all the best

Nick

“Not all who wander are lost” Right on man, right on! And so
true.

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From: “sara glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] A Rosarito Beach Story
Date: August 26, 2002 at 4:31:45 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 8:22 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] A Rosarito Beach Story

A former methadone patient, Male, age 22, Wt. 270 lbs., traveled to
Rosarito Beach two weeks ago.  He was placed on Morphine for two days
prior to Ibogaine administration.  He was given 17 Mg/kg.  He
experienced Phase I onset of “a buzzing noise,” followed by dream-like
hallucinations for approx. 5-6 hours.  He denied experiencing any
extra-cultural material during this phase.  He did experience seeing a
former patient here that OD’d a few months ago.  After approx. 3-4
hours, he felt like walking around and ended up vomiting.  Phase I
lasted approx. 6 hours.  He denied having any cravings or physical
withdrawal thru the experience.  He then slept, and when he awoke, he
reportedly was experiencing withdrawal symptoms and related that he was
dosed again at 17 Mg/kg.  During treatment he was monitored every 30
minutes (BP and Pulse).   He reported that after he returned to this
area, he continued to experience some residual symptoms…weakness,
cramping in legs, and sleeplessness.  He stated that he had no cravings
upon his return…”1 or 2″ on 10 pt. scale.  The next day, however, he
was “laying around” and the thought of experiencing “that first high”
bothered him throughout the day until he used.  He reports that he only
used on one occasion.  The word on the street indicates he has been
using on a daily basis following his return.

Unfortunately, a phone call to me has been his only contact since his
treatment.  Hopefully, I’ll have a chance to speak with him in greater
detail.

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

—————————————————————————-
—-

From: Nicholas Labus <goosebumpz2002@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Ibogaine Death in Germany
Date: August 26, 2002 at 4:28:42 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Lets just pray and meditate over this yours truly mr ann arbor!
— Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com> wrote:
Sorry if this is a 2nd post – “send” is screwing up

You are referring to CYP2D6 (cytochrome P-4502D6)
enzyme that is the main channel to metabolize ibogaine
into nor-ibogaine. About 7% of people are missing this
enzyme. It is the same enzyme that makes codeine turn
into morphine in the body – for some people codeine
doesn’t work well because of this – on the other hand
it will increase ibogaine blood levels if you don’t
have it (by not converting ibogaine to nor-ibogaine
fast enough).

So, yeah, it could have something to do with something
but I think we need to hear the medical examiners
report before coming to any conclusions. Another drug
could also have been in the blood that interfered with
this enzyme and increase ibogaine levels in blood – by
not being able to clear it/metabolize it into
nor-ibogaine – paroxetine (paxil), followed by
fluoxetine (prozac) are 2 inhibitors of CYP2D6 (so one
source says… another source said no though anything
that uses CYP2D6 it may HOG the enzyme).

It is an area of interest one of these days I will
spend some time to understand it better. With a little
knowledge one gets to wondering what interferes with
ibogaine metabolism and what may enhance it. For
instance a common drug combination (of abuse) is
codeine and gluthethimide called “HITS”. GLUTHETHIMIDE
(a sleeping agent)increases the ability of CYP26D to
make morphine out of codeine in the body, it may do
the same for ibogaine to nor-ibogaine, might even
lower the “hallucinogenic” side effects – just a
thought.

I don’t store this info in my head or have a real good
understanding of it, so had to look it up, take it for
what it is worth (and check for yourself). I only know
it is “there”.

Brett

— Andria Efthimiou-Mordaunt
<AndriaEM@drugscope.org.uk> wrote:
Thanx for this Dana
Hattie also said it may have been to do with this
enzyme that some of us
simply do not have, that means there is a danger of
all sorts for some
people; who’s on the list now that knows that
biochemical deatail
Howard? Brett – anybody out there?

sadness to discover another treatment can kill us;
is anything safe 4 us?

Anyways

Love and hugs always

andria

—–Original Message—–
From: Dana Beal [mailto:cnw@calyx.net]
Sent: 19 August 2002 21:13
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine Death in Germany

A young woman tragically died during an informal
ibogaine session in Germany
last month (July 2002). The death occurred about one
and a half hours after
taking 500mg of ibogaine HCl for personal
development purposes. The cause of
death is not yet established. The woman, aged 35
years and weighing 63 kg,
had used the drug previously on one occasion without
problem. Her partner
has requested that I put out this basic
announcement. More details will be
posted once they become available.

Sorry to be the bearer of such bad tidings

Nick

Note that this was not a treatment for addiction, so
that attitude of the
participants may have been a bit casual. What I’ve
learned so far is that
she took it after traveling, without resting up
first, so that she may have
been dehydrated without realizing it. Mash found
that virtually all
arythmias could be eliminated by just making sure
subjects are
well-hydrated.

She had had open-heart surgery in the past. A year
ago, a doctor assured her
her heart was alright, without knowing what she
wanted the information for.

It’s also worth noting that another person taking
the same batch of HCl for
oxycontin addiction went “into arrest” on  only 600
milligrams–just 100
more than this person–and was brought out of it
only because a nurse was
present who knew CPR. It turned out this person had
an undisclosed history
of seizures. So it could turn out to be
batch-related.

I talked to Hattie yesterday, and she has suspended
treatments because it
turned out 5 people lied about their positive
hepatitis C status because
they knew she wouldn’t treat them if they told her
the truth. Drug abusers
lie. On the other hand, I personally believe
ibogaine use should be
restricted to active addicts because the
risk/benefit situation is much more
defensible if something goes wrong, as in this case.
Bottom line–you want
something for self-development, do acid.

The person who just died also had a fascination with
death and the
afterlife, so we may have a “death’s door” situation
here–where she went
through the door and didn’t feel like coming back.
Mash was making people
sign an contract, agreeing to come back. But try
telling that to NIDA. As I
understand it, CPR was tried, she almost came back,
and then he lost her.

Nic, tell him I just lost all my email, so I’d like
him to send those posts
again where she talks about this. I didn’t really
get a chance to read them.
The Paris forum is looking good, and we may be able
to put something
together in Italy. Dr Ken says the only spin you can
put on this is that
desparate people are going to do Ibogaine, so it has
to be put under the
control of physicians so that fatalities can be
minimized. Also, this is
making the Indra look a little safer, albeit very
nauseating.

Dana/cnw

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From: Nicholas Labus <goosebumpz2002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [ibogaine] Re: ibogaine and hep c
Date: August 26, 2002 at 4:25:16 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

look my name is nick i have hep c and i am one of the most cinical
mother fuckers you will ever meet. look xanax is a bitch heroins a
whore and methadone is there legal counterpart yes the worlds fucked
up but its fucked better when yoour sober!
— vector6@space.com wrote:

I remember this convo… Wow, doesn’t it just suck to
be totally right.

.:vector:.

On Fri, 23 August 2002, Carla Barnes wrote:

Forward of one of the CYP2D6 msgs.

Carla B

— &quot;Patrick K. Kroupa&quot;
&lt;digital@phantom.com&gt; wrote:
&gt; Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 14:12:57 -0400
&gt; From: &quot;Patrick K. Kroupa&quot;
&lt;digital@phantom.com&gt;
&gt; To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
&gt; Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: ibogaine and hep c
&gt;
&gt; On [Wed, May 22, 2002 at 02:13:25PM +0100],
[Andria
&gt; Efthimiou-Mordaunt] wrote:
&gt;
&gt; | Jon
&gt; |
&gt; | Which country are you in?
&gt;
&gt; John is Dr. Pablo, he lives in the country of the
&gt; mind, in a state of
&gt; insanity.  Which is to say, most of the time, 20
&gt; yards away from where I
&gt; am.  Or Miami even, to put it another way.
&gt;
&gt; | You may be referring to Liver Function Test and
&gt; FBC (Full Blodd Counts) but
&gt; | as far as I’m aware these will not give you the
&gt; full mckoy on the state of
&gt; | ones liver. Hattie, don’t get confused. Send an
&gt; e-mail to Mat Dolan, who
&gt; | wrote the HCV Handbook (my potty buddy and he
&gt; really is my teacher on HCV)
&gt; | cos he has to be updated as a result of
re-writing
&gt; his book each 2 yrs or so
&gt;
&gt; Look…  Alla youz can beat nomenclature,
details,
&gt; and theory, into the
&gt; dust, then sift through it sideways searching for
&gt; &lt;whatever&gt;.  But it’s
&gt; pretty simple:
&gt;
&gt; Yes, to the best of my knowledge at this point in
&gt; time, it is not possible
&gt; to accurately and exactly test liver function
&gt; without a biopsy.  However,
&gt; this is going off on a tangent.  If you run the
&gt; standard, simple blood
&gt; tests which include a liver panel, and nothing
comes
&gt; up really wacked,
&gt; then you are more or less — probably — okay.
&gt;
&gt; This isn’t the be all, end all, of testing,
because
&gt; it’s a really good
&gt; idea to test for the prescence of a gene (CYP2D6
&gt; [Cytochrome p450 2D6])
&gt; for the protein which metabolizes ibogaine.
There
&gt; is a certain percentage
&gt; of the population which does NOT have the
wildtype
&gt; gene.
&gt;
&gt; Ibogaine can be metabolized without it, usually
the
&gt; answer is a much lower
&gt; dose.  However.  If someone has Hep C — in an
&gt; active/uncontrolled state,
&gt; lacks this gene (how you would go about testing
for
&gt; it in other parts of
&gt; the world, I do not know…  I just know what
&gt; happens here.  It should not
&gt; be impossible.), you dose ’em with a
&quot;low&quot; dose of
&gt; ibogaine to be safe …
&gt; the end result can still be a dead body, because
the
&gt; ibogaine isn’t being
&gt; metabolized/metabolized fast enough, and then you
&gt; wind up with shit like
&gt; Q-T prolongation and torsades.
&gt;
&gt; And if you wind up with these situations in an
&gt; environment where there
&gt; isn’t anyone present that knows how to prevent
them
&gt; from dropping dead.
&gt; Presto, you gots a dead body.
&gt;
&gt; In short, lots of super-bad THINGS can happen.
&gt;
&gt; None of these are Great Secrets.  All this shit
has
&gt; been published
&gt; already.
&gt;
&gt; – – – – – – – – –
&gt;
&gt; To summarize:  You need roughly half your liver
&gt; still going.  (presuming
&gt; this is the problem, and your heart is
&quot;okay&quot; and
&gt; nothing else is really
&gt; wacked the fuck out.)
&gt;
&gt; – – – – – – – – –
&gt;
&gt; Now…  Here’s the great big grey area…
&gt;
&gt; What’s &quot;good enough&quot; … and how do
you define that.
&gt;
&gt; Medicine isn’t very exact, there are an awful
lot of
&gt; very healthy people
&gt; who drop dead for all sorts of reasons — other
than
&gt; being shot, OD’ing,
&gt; or getting hit by a truck — and there are an
equal
&gt; or greater number of
&gt; people who have a Fucking Towering Mountain of
shit
&gt; wrong with them, who
&gt; really should have dropped dead decades ago, and
&gt; they keep right on
&gt; living.  &lt;shrug&gt;
&gt;
&gt; To drop into the subjective: when I wanted to
dose
&gt; with ibogaine, I lied
&gt; about every fucking thing imaginable, regarding
what
&gt; I was or was not
&gt; taking, and the doses I was on, because I was
afraid
&gt; nobody would even
&gt; attempt to detox me from all that shit (200mg
&gt; methadone + roughly 2
&gt; grams of heroin + 12mg xanax, on an average day,
to
&gt; just get &quot;normal&quot;).
&gt;
&gt; All my tests are within &quot;normal&quot;
ranges, whether due
&gt; to karma, luck,
&gt; genetics, or simply because I’m still
indestructible
&gt; and not old enough to
&gt; have suffered direct physical consequences from
all
&gt; the stupid shit I’ve
&gt; done to myself.
&gt;
&gt; However…  Were my tests NOT normal.  Would I
have
&gt; shrugged, said, &quot;oh
&gt; well, I can’t do this,&quot; and moved on to
another
&gt; possible treatment?  FUCK
&gt; NO.  Tried ’em all, none worked, this is what I
&gt; WANT/NEED.  I do not give
&gt; a fuck what your inclusion/exclusion criteria is,
&gt; for me this is my life,
&gt; I am on a kamikaze run, and if it kills me, who
&gt; gives a shit, it’s not
&gt; like I’m living now anyway; just my time to go.
Oh
&gt; well.
&gt;
&gt; What I’m saying is; if my tests were in any way
&gt; abnormal, I would have
&gt; simply engaged in some creative art, printed up
some
&gt; Just Super Fine
&gt; Perfect results, and if you wanted to receive
those
&gt; results from a doctor
&gt; or a lab; well hey, no problem, I will access the
&gt; switch that their phones
&gt; are on, and for that entire afternoon or day,
every
&gt; single call going into
&gt; or out of those offices, will go to ME instead.
&gt; You’re not gonna stop me,

=== message truncated ===

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From: Nicholas Labus <goosebumpz2002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] For Karina with love we care
Date: August 26, 2002 at 4:12:37 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi its weirdo nick again that is the best thing i heard so far here
on this web site or whatever it is its very realistic heroin svaed
me from suicide methadone saved me from heroin 12 steps helped me
from myself but i need something to help me with methadone i go to
methadone anonymous im very eager to find a list of clinics that do
iboga. treatment im very interested.
— Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com> wrote:
An echo of Prestons reply, although as an ex-junkie cannot stand
pot anymore!
It makes me think too much. I am a firm believer in the harm
reduction realm.
Sure, complete abstinence is ideal for the brain/emotions to begin
to recover,
but it isn’t always realistic.

Stepping down with methadone does get you off the street so to
speak, and as
much hardship I encountered through the clinic and how I felt
physically while
on methadone, it, without a doubt, saved my life. and then
ibogaine rescued me
from the metahdone but thats another story.

So while in treatment, take what you need and leave the rest.
Guilt and shame
are the stumbling blocks of recovery [as in treatment centers/12
step
ideology], so don’t buy into that trip. Be good to yourself and do
what works
best for you. figuring that out might mean stumbling a few times,
just pick
yourself up and keep at it.

I remember telling some guy at a meeting I thought they were
brainwashing me in
treatment. He then informed me that my brain probably needed a
good cleaning.
At the time I was indignant. In retrospect, there may have been
some truth to
that statement.

Yeah, meetings helped me, but so do a plethora of other stuff,
which mainly
stem from taking care of myself, which was hard to learn and still
has plenty
of room for improvement in my life.

-dh

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From: Bill Ross <ross@cgl.ucsf.EDU>
Subject: [ibogaine] a related thing..
Date: August 26, 2002 at 3:55:14 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Here’s a conference on ayahuasca that may be of interest. They need
more attendees to make it happen. Ayahuasca is the only entheogen
that I have seen compared with ibogaine; although it doesn’t have
the direct habit/addiction interruption capabilities of ibogaine,
I have heard it is used in a therapeutic anti-addiction context in
Brazil. Perhaps it is useful in personality restructuring in a way
that resembles ibogaine.

Bill Ross

We take the liberty to announce one more time the Psychoactivity III
Ayahausca Conference.

The Psychoactivity III Ayahuasca Conference will be held from 22 to 24
November in Amsterdam. It is a three day conference focusing on many
different aspects of the intruiging jungle brew. Shamans as well as experts
and scientists are invited as speakers. All information about the
conference can be found at our website www.psychoactivity.org
We invite you all to take a look.

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] For Karina with love we care
Date: August 26, 2002 at 3:28:14 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I totally second PK’s suggestions Karina (as you know.)
Hope your day is bearable
Strength and hugs
andria

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] entheogen-lovers & addict users mix well only sometimes?
Date: August 26, 2002 at 3:16:08 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Patrick

Good point. Of course, i’m very appreciative of the Entheogen-loving community, but sometimes, I just wanna be in a room full of ex/current addicts who I don’t have to explain everything to over and  over again (as I’m sure the entheogen folk do too.)

In fact I recently had an experience that will express just exactly what it is I’m trying to say here –

I went to Scotland to see a friends film premiere; (when I was there, she introduced to me one of the crew who is addicted to opiates), and I committed in my heart immediately to try and recruit him! Y’know User advocacy and all that.. i had a few UVs with me (This gal never goes anywhere without her UV!)

Anyways; I went to film with a friend who is currently studying in Scotland. He is an entheogen-lover. Introduced him to the crew member/addict user, who very soon after managed to get a small bottle of a liquid designer/psychedelic drug outta him. Indeed, my non-addict pal essentially let this guy run off with this little bottle and my film-maker galfriend told me 3 days later that the ad-U had woken her up in the middle of the night completely f’d and not coping and going crazy..

I was fuming with my entheogen-lover friend; I mean what the funk is that about?

And he had the audacity to say, as far as I’m concerned “everybody is responsible for their own actions and I don’t treat u guys any differently just cos u r/have been addicts…” Mmh, sounds terribly democratic right.

BUT, guess what. This is a future psychologist. Yoh, tg, he will not be working with junkies right?! The problem really for me was that to give a drunk-on-alcohol methadone drinker anything else on top… funking hell. NOT EXACTLY harm reduction right?!

Just wanted to express 1 of many reasons why I am a bit of a separatist when it comes to community-organising.

Weird; I never recall giving drugs away so easily!!! Indeed. it’s about the only thing I DON’t give away easily. Prolly cos I LOVE/NEED D’s so much right??!!

Anyways, …life goes on. Judith, do u wanna write something about AMMO in the next Users Voice? Might even be a good way to start networking with U’s in other countries who are doing similar work to U.

andria

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] For Karina with love we care
Date: August 26, 2002 at 3:00:48 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Sun, Aug 25, 2002 at 03:10:35PM -0400], [Mzzthangg13@aol.com] wrote:

| i don’t know where to start  i left rehab cause they would not do anything
| for my legs i called a friend who took me to the ER then the next day i went
| to the doctor he gave me 150mg elavil i blacked out my husband was even
| crying cause i messed myself up bad i ran into the walls kept falling down it
| looks like i was in car accident i am bruised  all over…..i quit no more  i
| am going to killmyself…if i don’t stop now…….all i wanted is to get off
| methadone  that’s it     that shit is so hard to get off……but i think
| I’ll be ok???????karina

Karina…  Basically, it sounds like yet another day in paradise…

If you’re at the stage where you can eat 150mg Elavil and blackout, I
would strongly suggest not just dosing yourself with HCl at random.  This
is probably not a real good idea.

You really need to ask yourself — as I think Curtis and Larry pointed out
— why it is that you want this, why now, what’s different.  And from all
the things you’ve posted here over the last two months, it does sound like
you really want to get clean.

Some people can just hold it together once they are physically detoxed,
but most people cannot.  I’m not saying go to a 12-step group, but
wherever you are, I’m sure there are many programs around you could
participate in.  What you “learn” there may or may not help you, but where
you’re at right now, it is a definite plus to be around other people who
understand what you’re going through, and you can talk about it; instead
of being on your own, and running around doing <whatever>.

For at least a short period of time, it really wouldn’t hurt you to check
into what aftercare, drug counseling groups, and/or meetings, are
available in your area…

Yet more words from the Do as I say, not as I do, collection.  But, based
on everything you’ve said here; I’d at least think about it.

Patrick

From: Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Question ::: HCL incremental doseage over time Amen
Date: August 26, 2002 at 2:58:16 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

If this helps, in the year 2000 slovene Methadone centers distributed for around 1,75 million US$ worth of Methadone. I don’t know how many “patients”  they had, or how many doses that was, but 14 Methadone centers and one detox clinic (10 beds) costed (including Methadone) around 4 million US$ in the year 2000.

Slovenija has around 2 million souls, and medical personel (included doctors) have MUCH lower salaries than in USA.

(in case you’d like to do some more calculations ;-))

Marko

At 19:46 26.8.2002, you wrote:

Calculating at .07 cents per day x Avg. Dose, x # of meth. patients in
the US alone brings us to a figure of about one million per day.  I know
that when I looked into all this a few months ago, the profit was
nowhere near a million per day…and at that time, I had calculated by
the number of clinics world-wide to arrive at the amount of $ was being
pulled in by Methadone manufacturers.  Thus, the cost per Mg. of
methadone is .007 per Mg.  “I know for a fact that it wasn’t” refers to
it not being .07, as I had calculated profit on world-wide figures and
arrived at less than one million $ per day.  Hope that makes it more
clear.  Unfortunately, I am unable to find the document I prepared with
all this info.  It’s probably at home.  I’ll see if I can find it.

All the info was collated from the net as far as # of methadone
patients in the US and world-wide, Avg. Dose, and # of clinics
world-wide.  The cost info. was obtained from our bills from Roxane.
Some people play video games for entertainment…I do useless little
research exercises.

If this is inaccurate info., I would appreciate any input.

> It must have been .007 cents, as .07 per Mg. actually amts. to one
million $ per day based on US meth. clinics…and I know for a fact that
it wasn’t.

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

>>> AndriaE@aol.com 08/26/02 12:33PM >>>
U know 4 a fact that it wasn’t what Rick?

From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] A Rosarito Beach Story
Date: August 26, 2002 at 2:54:52 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

oh my God that sounds like me i was in rosarito beach 7/12….and everything happen like your friend was their for 5 days i left too early cxause the 2nd day i got home i wanted to chop my legs off they hurt so much …..i went  to the ER 5 times…..I’m still off methadone but i used 1 time and now i  then i starts taking vicodins  klonipins and codine…..but now i am only taking trazadone and seroquil plus clonodine………i read that i thought you talking about me lol…….

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] Re: ibogaine and hep c
Date: August 26, 2002 at 2:43:26 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Sun, Aug 25, 2002 at 11:18:59PM -0400], [ElGrekkko] wrote:

| Same here. Bad vibe? RUN!!… Words to live by b/c you might die if you
| don’t.

Uhm, depends on the bad vibe.  Most things are much better if you just
face ’em, and drop into the red light if necessary.  What is not so okay
is doing cold turkey on cement floors in little cells.  This lives
somewhere very near the exact opposite of okay; in the realm of super-bad,
and highly not good.  Those are not happy experiences.  Being picked up is
like whatever man, having your time wasted until you get before a judge
and your lawyer makes it all go away.  However, if you’re sprung, you are
hereby sentenced to torture.  And nothing really seems to make that clock
move any faster so you can get the fuck out, and go cop.  Go figure.

| So what sort of emergency kit should one have handy, in this situation?

How ’bout: LEARN CPR.

Patrick

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] what happened over the wknd?
Date: August 26, 2002 at 2:36:46 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Mon, Aug 26, 2002 at 02:35:02PM -0400], [AndriaE@aol.com] wrote:

| What does DDOS’d mean?

DDOS == (D)istributed (D)enial (O)f (S)ervice attack.  I don’t really have
time to write 10 paragraphs onnit, here:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=distributed+denial+of+service+attack

If you wanna learn about tearing shit down; I meant to say Computer
Security!  You can start here:

http://www.mindvox.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/MindVoxUI.woa/wa/staticpage%3fpagename=Links/Security.html

If you ever run out of hobbies, it’ll give you something else to think
about for the next few hundred years.

| So PK are u up for braving a bigger audience in Seattle in December

Yeah, it’s all good.

Patrick

From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Question ::: HCL incremental doseage over time Amen
Date: August 26, 2002 at 2:38:48 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hi my name is karina i went to Mexico to do ibogaine my last dose of 100mgs of meth was 7/12……but i think i left too soon cause the day i left i felt fine the 2nd day home oh my God i thought i was gonna die my legs is where i get the withdrawals worst i went to the ER 6 times for the pain…..so i think ibogaine is good but you need to be where ever you are getting treatment for 10days that’s my opinion i was their for 5 days…….but I’m still off methadone i hate  methadone i would rather kick heroin…take y’all karina.

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] what happened over the wknd?
Date: August 26, 2002 at 2:35:02 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

What does DDOS’d mean?
L, andria

So PK are u up for braving a bigger audience in Seattle in December

(A woman out there has said she will put me up if I get out there; in fact 2 lots of people have! Weird..) And I’m really into going as the conference falls on World AIDS day; for an AIDS widow, it is IMPERATIVE 2 b doing something special on that day, so hey may see u there)

Others?

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] MTVox
Date: August 26, 2002 at 2:21:13 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Mon, Aug 26, 2002 at 03:16:26AM -0000], [Curtis  Hersch] wrote:

| Hey man, Patrick and crew, you people really ought to do something
| with opening up some ibogaine material sections and whatnot. You
| are all over the internet bro and it’s not these weird left of
| center niches which deal with the drug culture, you’re right in
| the middle with hacking, Mindvox, all of that. Your hit rate is
| outrageous and you could for real seriously open up exposure to
| all these cool things.
|
| I know you said you’re working on it, I’m not here to bug you
| about opening on time whatever that means or because I need some
| email that isn’t lame, even if I do. But you know all these
| industry people, you know all these seriously weird tech people
| who promote drugs and are anti drug war, you should put all your
| writing in one place on mindvox, you should open more of a
| ibogaine section.

Yes dude, this is all being worked on.  There are just an extremely large
number of things all being worked on all at once.  It’ll happen.  As far
as all these other people go; most of them are against the “War on Drugs,”
they are pro-choice, pro-freedom, anti-all prohibition.  However, for the
most part they are entheogen proponents.  Most of the psychedelics people
have never had a habit, have no understanding whatsoever ’bout what it
means to be strung-out, and don’t really get withdrawal or why one detox
works better than another.  These are all details which mostly do not
concern them in any way whatsoever — and keep in mind they are pretty
fucking open minded people, who mean well.

Basically, nobody really gives a shit about junkies, except those who are
of the tribe.  It takes a tremendous amount of time and effort to slowly
bring people into the whole headspace where ibogaine makes sense to them.
They do not just automatically give a shit, “Oh, YES!  Ibogaine!  Already
I see the Clouds Parting and a Ray of Sunshine!”  Not quite…

Ibogaine is amazing within the context of what it does for opiate/opioid
dependence.  When you bring this great news to the attention of people who
have never been sprung, and whose primary goal is, “hey, if I want to
light up a blunt, eat X, or dose with LSD, well I SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO DO
THAT!  Legally I mean.”  It doesn’t really rock their world very much.

They believe anyone who wants to shoot heroin, should be allowed to do
that.  They do not understand that some people who are sick and tired of
being sprung, cannot get unsprung.  “Well then, why not just stop?”

You cannot HOLD A FORUM and EDUCATE them.  They don’t care.  It takes
countless conversations, phone calls, and email exchanges, where it comes
through in bits and pieces.  It takes time.

Patrick

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Letter fr. HRC Confirming Ibo Panel at Seattle Conf.
Date: August 26, 2002 at 2:29:44 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Allison

This is conference-speak; get used to it Maam! (1 of the London connections here..)

So Dana; who’s gonna be on your panel?

You and ?

andria

From: “ElGrekkko” <ElGrekkko@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] what happened over the wknd?
Date: August 26, 2002 at 2:25:05 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: “Gamma” <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 12:12 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] what happened over the wknd?

— AndriaE@aol.com wrote:
Are ‘They’ watching us too closely, and messing up our sysytems? Just  a
thought

Perhaps carnivore had indigestion over the weekend.

of course a few startegically placed e-bombs could severely cripple the
entire
www.

I bet some hackers out there could invent their own version of
carnivore—-a version that would devour the original.

From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] A Rosarito Beach Story
Date: August 26, 2002 at 2:22:07 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

A former methadone patient, Male, age 22, Wt. 270 lbs., traveled to
Rosarito Beach two weeks ago.  He was placed on Morphine for two days
prior to Ibogaine administration.  He was given 17 Mg/kg.  He
experienced Phase I onset of “a buzzing noise,” followed by dream-like
hallucinations for approx. 5-6 hours.  He denied experiencing any
extra-cultural material during this phase.  He did experience seeing a
former patient here that OD’d a few months ago.  After approx. 3-4
hours, he felt like walking around and ended up vomiting.  Phase I
lasted approx. 6 hours.  He denied having any cravings or physical
withdrawal thru the experience.  He then slept, and when he awoke, he
reportedly was experiencing withdrawal symptoms and related that he was
dosed again at 17 Mg/kg.  During treatment he was monitored every 30
minutes (BP and Pulse).   He reported that after he returned to this
area, he continued to experience some residual symptoms…weakness,
cramping in legs, and sleeplessness.  He stated that he had no cravings
upon his return…”1 or 2″ on 10 pt. scale.  The next day, however, he
was “laying around” and the thought of experiencing “that first high”
bothered him throughout the day until he used.  He reports that he only
used on one occasion.  The word on the street indicates he has been
using on a daily basis following his return.

Unfortunately, a phone call to me has been his only contact since his
treatment.  Hopefully, I’ll have a chance to speak with him in greater
detail.

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

From: “ElGrekkko” <ElGrekkko@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Eve, the bitch
Date: August 26, 2002 at 1:55:23 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: “Gamma” <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 12:07 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Eve, the bitch

I blame all this on the waning moon, a universal wave of bad kharma,
and  …….Eve biting the apple. That bitch.

That sums it up perfectly! Eve started it all! not just internet gliches
but
stuff like war and pestilence and ADDICTION.

Just blame it on EVE.

Laughing, for the first time in 2 days….

-gamma

glad to hear it. i figured some feminist was going to jump me for that. but
it was a joke, for god’s sake. no harm intended.

elg

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] what happened over the wknd?
Date: August 26, 2002 at 1:44:14 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Mon, Aug 26, 2002 at 06:49:04AM -0400], [AndriaE@aol.com] wrote:

| Are ‘They’ watching us too closely, and messing up our sysytems? Just  a
| thought
|
| Or has the exposure of some huge bastions of capitalism’s corruption (like
| worldcome etc) begun to affect the internet also? Just wondering. Anyone got
| a clue?

Yeah, Qwest — which runs a very large backbone — had some, uhm,
technical difficulties n’ shit, over the weekend.  Which was absolutely,
positively, and without a doubt NOT being DDOS’d.  Their uhm, routers all
Mysteriously Broke all At Once!  Yeah, that’s it.

Woo hoo,

Patrick

From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Question ::: HCL incremental doseage over time Amen
Date: August 26, 2002 at 1:46:11 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Calculating at .07 cents per day x Avg. Dose, x # of meth. patients in
the US alone brings us to a figure of about one million per day.  I know
that when I looked into all this a few months ago, the profit was
nowhere near a million per day…and at that time, I had calculated by
the number of clinics world-wide to arrive at the amount of $ was being
pulled in by Methadone manufacturers.  Thus, the cost per Mg. of
methadone is .007 per Mg.  “I know for a fact that it wasn’t” refers to
it not being .07, as I had calculated profit on world-wide figures and
arrived at less than one million $ per day.  Hope that makes it more
clear.  Unfortunately, I am unable to find the document I prepared with
all this info.  It’s probably at home.  I’ll see if I can find it.

All the info was collated from the net as far as # of methadone
patients in the US and world-wide, Avg. Dose, and # of clinics
world-wide.  The cost info. was obtained from our bills from Roxane.
Some people play video games for entertainment…I do useless little
research exercises.

If this is inaccurate info., I would appreciate any input.

It must have been .007 cents, as .07 per Mg. actually amts. to one
million $ per day based on US meth. clinics…and I know for a fact that
it wasn’t.

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

AndriaE@aol.com 08/26/02 12:33PM >>>
U know 4 a fact that it wasn’t what Rick?

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Question ::: HCL incremental doseage over time Amen
Date: August 26, 2002 at 12:33:36 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

U know 4 a fact that it wasn’t what Rick?

From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] what happened over the wknd?
Date: August 26, 2002 at 12:12:15 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— AndriaE@aol.com wrote:
Are ‘They’ watching us too closely, and messing up our sysytems? Just  a
thought

Perhaps carnivore had indigestion over the weekend.

of course a few startegically placed e-bombs could severely cripple the entire
www.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Eve, the bitch
Date: August 26, 2002 at 12:07:34 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I blame all this on the waning moon, a universal wave of bad kharma,
and  …….Eve biting the apple. That bitch.

That sums it up perfectly! Eve started it all! not just internet gliches but
stuff like war and pestilence and ADDICTION.

Just blame it on EVE.

Laughing, for the first time in 2 days….

-gamma

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

From: “Alison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Letter fr. HRC Confirming Ibo Panel at Seattle Conf.
Date: August 26, 2002 at 7:19:11 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Good luck Dana.  What a convolulted (am not sure I even got that right)  way of expressing their intentions.   Took a bit to even understand but perhaps I’m be thick.   Did it confuse anyone else out there or was it just me being thick??????
Allison
—–Original Message—–
From: Dana Beal <cnw@calyx.net>
To: Patrick K. Kroupa <digital@phantom.com>
Cc: Jay Statzer <jstatzer@qtm.net>; chrischmoo@yahoo.co.uk <chrischmoo@yahoo.co.uk>; biuro_69@csk.pl <biuro_69@csk.pl>; Hattie <epoptica@freeuk.com>; tony conte <contetony@hotmail.com>; IBOGA Foundation <iboga@guest.arnes.si>; ibogaine@mindvox.com <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Date: Monday, 26 August 2002 10:38
Subject: [ibogaine] Letter fr. HRC Confirming Ibo Panel at Seattle Conf.

August 22, 2002

Dana Beal
Cures not Wars
9 Bleecker St
New York, NY 10012

Dear Dana Beal:

On behalf of the review committee, and after reviewsing over 400 exciting and provocative abstracts, I am pleased to inform you that the following presentation has been acccepted for the 4th National Harm Reduction Conference.
bogaine: Moving the Treatment Industry beyond  Agonist /Antagonist/Maintenance Medications Towards an Addiction Interrupter Model

Please send us a very brief bio of nomore than 100 words to include in the program booklet by Monday, September 30. Please remember you are the point person for this presentation, and you should notify other authors/presenters.

HRC does not cover the costs of travel or lodging, unless you have a scholarship. Speakers are offered a reduced registration fee of $260.00. The scholarship process is closed. For those of you who applied for scholarships, award letter states your registration balance. If hotel accommodations are part of your scholarship do not makes reservations at the hotel, this will be done for you.

If you need to make your own hotel reservations at the Sheraton these should be made by November 1st. Please contact the hotel directly at 206-447-5555, do not forget to include your departure time. For airfare information contact Continental Airlines included in this letter is a voucher with discount information. After we receive both your bio and your conference registration fee, we will send you information on the date and time of your presentation. In the meantime, if you have any questions about your presentation, please contact me at 212-213-6376-ext. 15.

Thank you. We look forward to seeing you in Seattle in December.

Sincerely,

Paula Santiago
Conference Coordinator
Harm Reduction Coalition
22 West 27th Street 5th Floor
New York, NY 10001
fax: 212-213-6582
email: hrc@harmreduction.org
http://www.harmreduction.org

Note to Patrick:

This was not the presention I submitted an abstract for, and frankly, my strategy for getting the treatment industry to pick up ibogaine is extremely indirect, due to the reservations of both the 12 step and methadone factions in dealing with psychedelic drugs of any kind. I haven’t a clue about how to move the treatment industry; instead I’m trying to change the climate with these forums, and create access by setting up more and cheaper treatment centers across the border. Maybe you can fill in. I presume you’re still up for this. Tell Pablo; I’ll check to see how much time we have.

Dana/cnw

From: “Alison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] For Karina with love we care
Date: August 26, 2002 at 7:11:32 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Cc: <Mzzthangg13@aol.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Karina.   Please don;t put yourself thru so much pain and hurt.  If the methadone helps perhaps take it and stabilise and then when you feel better you will be more up to working out coming off or dropping down a few mls per time.  Thats what I did and I don’t know if others will agree but putting yourself and your family, (you didn’t say if u had kids)  through lots of shit is not worth it in the end.  I thought I could take myself off to bed and hang out and do it all on my own but ended up nutting off completely,  felt like I wanted to rip my insides out and basically stuffed up real bad, screamed at my partner, threw a bottle of coke through the window, upset my daughter etc. etc/  After all that and other nutty things I did I reckon anything that can keep you relatively stable is worth it.  And then once you get to that point you can think about getting off or coming down.  One of the biggest problems is getting your head and emotions together enough to think properly and be positive.  Thats just my opinion from my own experiences and everyone is different.  Also doesn’t sound like your methadone councellers or clinic are really there for you and they should be.??   Good luck…..Allison
—–Original Message—–
From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com <Mzzthangg13@aol.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Date: Monday, 26 August 2002 07:11D
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] For Karina with love we care

i don’t know where to start  i left rehab cause they would not do anything for my legs i called a friend who took me to the ER then the next day i went to the doctor he gave me 150mg elavil i blacked out my husband was even crying cause i messed myself up bad i ran into the walls kept falling down it looks like i was in car accident i am bruised  all over…..i quit no more  i am going to killmyself…if i don’t stop now…….all i wanted is to get off methadone  that’s it     that shit is so hard to get off……but i think I’ll be ok???????karina

From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Question ::: HCL incremental doseage over time Amen
Date: August 26, 2002 at 7:45:36 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

So to speak…I’m a counselor at a Methadone clinic.  Some time ago I
sat down with our bills from our provider and calculated the cost per
Mg.  Methadone is very cheap stuff.  It must have been .007 cents, as
.07 per Mg. actually amts. to one million $ per day based on US meth.
clinics…and I know for a fact that it wasn’t.

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

AndriaE@aol.com 08/26/02 07:31AM >>>
Do u really sell methadone?
Andria

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Question ::: HCL incremental doseage over time Amen
Date: August 26, 2002 at 7:31:51 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Do u really sell methadone?
Andria

From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Question ::: HCL incremental doseage over time Amen
Date: August 26, 2002 at 7:27:59 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Word from a Methadone peddler:
All factors considered, Methadone really isn’t all that profitable
to its manufacturers.  If I recall correctly, Methadone sells for around
.07 (or perhaps .007, I can’t remember) cents per Mg.  Taking the number
of methadone clinics worldwide and multiplying by the average dose
brings nowhere near the one million dollars per day that pharmaceutical
companies like to see.  Profit is a factor in Opiate addiction
treatment, but it’s much further down the line…i.e., clinics…bot
private and public, but most especially private. One of the private
clinics in this area charges almost twice what we do.

…just my two cents.

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

AndriaE@aol.com 08/26/02 06:54AM >>>
Even though the methadone is sold by the companies, it is not only
‘they’ who
want us to remain enslaved to it for profits sake

We have to be a party to that; I was on methadone for years cos I
simply
wasn’t ready to face life without that protection of my nervous system.

I think it’s very important 4 us to remember that all these drugs are
powerful and affect THE BODY, so that the spirit/emotions inside are
also
gonna be affected

As Curtis said, one way or ‘t’other, it foes seem like the likes of us
need
to learn to love ourselves and each other. G knows most of the world
ain’t
interested in the slightest, and ultimately there is some truth in
“every man
is an Island?”

Solidarity and strength
from Andria Mordaunt in London/U.K.

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Question ::: HCL incremental doseage over time Amen
Date: August 26, 2002 at 6:54:45 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Even though the methadone is sold by the companies, it is not only ‘they’ who want us to remain enslaved to it for profits sake

We have to be a party to that; I was on methadone for years cos I simply wasn’t ready to face life without that protection of my nervous system.

I think it’s very important 4 us to remember that all these drugs are powerful and affect THE BODY, so that the spirit/emotions inside are also gonna be affected

As Curtis said, one way or ‘t’other, it foes seem like the likes of us need to learn to love ourselves and each other. G knows most of the world ain’t interested in the slightest, and ultimately there is some truth in “every man is an Island?”

Solidarity and strength
>from Andria Mordaunt in London/U.K.

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] what happened over the wknd?
Date: August 26, 2002 at 6:49:04 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Are ‘They’ watching us too closely, and messing up our sysytems? Just  a thought

Or has the exposure of some huge bastions of capitalism’s corruption (like worldcome etc) begun to affect the internet also? Just wondering. Anyone got a clue?
andria/London U.K.

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] MTVox
Date: August 26, 2002 at 6:45:53 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m gonna do my intervening Mama thing again! I got the impression that PK already had too much on??
Are there not already sites on the internet where people can obtain onformation about Ibogaine? Some one please inform us
Love andria

From: “ElGrekkko” <ElGrekkko@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] what happened over the wknd?
Date: August 26, 2002 at 1:00:59 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I thought it was my incredimail program causing it all. Yes, yahoo’s messenger died on my last night and wouldn’t be revived. Google was fine, when I was searching for a picture of Valerian root, in hopes I could find it growing around here. It was a universal cosmic happening. Happens the internet some time. My outlook express box totally rearranged itself. Yesterday’s mail appeared where today’s should have been. I blame all this on the waning moon, a universal wave of bad kharma, and …….Eve biting the apple. That bitch.

—– Original Message —–
From: preston peet
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 12:44 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] what happened over the wknd?

That’s funny, now that you mention it, I too noticed a number of sites not loading at various times this weekend, much more than normal. Hmmm. No email weirdness, yet, knock on wood.
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Curtis Hersch
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2002 11:25 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] what happened over the wknd?

Not to be totally off topic but I figure someone here might
know.

What the hell happened to the entire internet over the weekend? No
less then half of everything I tried to access was just not there.
And I don’t mean small sites, yahoo vanished off and on, google
stuck around but lot of weird shit happened. Huge sites just
vanished and went off the air. What was all that? And now I’m
getting a big pile of mail that went out on thursday and it’s
landing now. Not Mindvox list mail, mail in general. What
happened?
Peace out,
Curtis

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From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] what happened over the wknd?
Date: August 26, 2002 at 12:44:09 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

That’s funny, now that you mention it, I too noticed a number of sites not loading at various times this weekend, much more than normal. Hmmm. No email weirdness, yet, knock on wood.
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Curtis Hersch
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2002 11:25 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] what happened over the wknd?

Not to be totally off topic but I figure someone here might
know.

What the hell happened to the entire internet over the weekend? No
less then half of everything I tried to access was just not there.
And I don’t mean small sites, yahoo vanished off and on, google
stuck around but lot of weird shit happened. Huge sites just
vanished and went off the air. What was all that? And now I’m
getting a big pile of mail that went out on thursday and it’s
landing now. Not Mindvox list mail, mail in general. What
happened?
Peace out,
Curtis

__________________________________________________________
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From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] MTVox
Date: August 26, 2002 at 12:42:12 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>Peace, I don’t want to steal that one from Preston but it’s a good
way to close a message.<

Curtis,
That isn’t stealing, it’s passing it on. That’s why I put it there, so it gets passed on in one way or a million others.;-)))
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Curtis Hersch
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2002 11:16 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] MTVox

Hey man, Patrick and crew, you people really ought to do something
with opening up some ibogaine material sections and whatnot. You
are all over the internet bro and it’s not these weird left of
center niches which deal with the drug culture, you’re right in
the middle with hacking, Mindvox, all of that. Your hit rate is
outrageous and you could for real seriously open up exposure to
all these cool things.

I know you said you’re working on it, I’m not here to bug you
about opening on time whatever that means or because I need some
email that isn’t lame, even if I do. But you know all these
industry people, you know all these seriously weird tech people
who promote drugs and are anti drug war, you should put all your
writing in one place on mindvox, you should open more of a
ibogaine section.

I don’t want to tell you what to do but you have a big audience
here and it’s building. Whatever your relationship is with Dr.
Mash, the lady does not own you, if she did I don’t think we’d all
be here on a ibogaine list or you’d be running promos for all the
other ibogaine. If she wants it or not I think it would be a
really good thing to open a ibogaine information section right
here.

Peace, I don’t want to steal that one from Preston but it’s a good
way to close a message.

Curtis

On Mon, 26 Aug 2002 vector6@space.com wrote :
>
>I’m here to remind everyone that my email is gone in
>about 4 days. I just thought I’d mention it again.
>
>MindVoxMTV
>
>.:vector:.
>
>http://www.ryze.org/view.php?who=RTercek
>
>* New York, 1993
>In the early 90s, MTV headquarters was searching for a
>new mission. The channel was a decade old, and was
>already an entrenched part of the TV landscape. I had
>returned to Manhattan to head up the on-air promo
>department, and my boss had succeeded in shattering the
>ratings barrier with Beavis and Butthead. But it seemed
>that the channel was drifting without a mission. We
>were relying on the tired notion of “the New Music
>Revolution” as our slogan. Computers were new and
>interesting features in the office. I had brought in
>Macintosh computers for my producers to use to
>manipulate TV images (in those pre-PowerMac days
>rotoscoping was done frame-by-frame in Photoshop). One
>of the staff producers, Todd Mueller, showed me
>Mindvox, a hip NYC ISP. I got very inspired and
>recommended to MTV management that we buy the ISP and
>offer MTV-branded Internet service, since this was
>clearly where our audience was gathering. I was
>disappointed, but not surprised, when one executive
>snapped, “We’re trying to run a cable channel here.
>This has nothing to do with our business.” Like many of
>his colleagues, this particular executive had grown up
>in the radio business before migrating to cable, which
>was considered “new media” in the early 80s. They
>weren’t ready to migrate to a new platform yet. I
>wasn’t interested in spending more time in a stagnant
>atmosphere, so I promptly resigned and headed out to LA
>to start a software company.
>

__________________________________________________________
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From: Nicholas Labus <goosebumpz2002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] Question ::: HCL incremental doseage over time Amen
Date: August 25, 2002 at 11:52:11 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

My name is nick im on methadone for the second time and there is
many down sides to being on methadone ya at first its a way to
definetly get you of the streets and  makes you able to funtion in
society but your still a slave to the drug!! honestly methadone is
goverment dope that private companys can make money on. they try tto
keep you there and they always try to talk you ouy of detoxing
slowly wich is the intentions when it all stared but there is good
sides and bad side  to methadone. just remember easy does it.and
dont take on more than you think you can handle cuz :cold turkey has
had me on the run! “”john lennon””in 1980 and take it from me meth
withdrawl takes 3 weeks despite what anyone else says. but i promise
you you can do it its not for someone who needs it you have to want
it whole heatedely!  yours truly Nick P.S. i am praying for everyone
thats responded you are good people we all are none of us are bad we
may have done some bad things but your not a  bad person love
yourself! and love all your brothers and sisters in the world!
— Curtis  Hersch <crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com> wrote:

I have got to ask the same question. You wanted to get off
methadone. I don’t know what it’s like to get off dope using
ibogaine I was clean when I took it. It has made a big change in
my life but this is happening almost 2 years after I’ve been clean

now. It is hard bro, so hard, so get off drugs. For real.

If you’re not prepared to handle all that and from what I’m
reading ibogaine doesn’t change everything around just like that,
wouldn’t it be better to just be on methadone maintenance if you
can’t get clean?

I am only asking because what Larry said here sounded real true to

me.

You have a lot of negative feeling at yourself karina, let it go
it won’t help.

Peace out,
Curtis

On Mon, 26 Aug 2002 Rhafner77@cs.com wrote :
Karina,
I`m following your posts about kikking methadone& the thing
that I don`t
understand, is why??
Is methadone so bad as to put yourself <& family> thru all this
crap?? I
don`t mean to be judgemental or anything like that, my heart goes

out to You.
I just don`t understand what s the big deal about methadone.
Personally, it seems like medicine one takes for an illness. Can
You describe
the problems that methadone causes You?
I`m hoping      things work out for You, but issn`t it possable

to deal with
this in another way? I`m just sorry You can`t find a `happy
medium` take
care, & wishing You the best, larry t.

__________________________________________________________
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__________________________________________________
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From: “Curtis Hersch” <crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] Question ::: HCL incremental doseage over time
Date: August 25, 2002 at 11:36:25 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I have got to ask the same question. You wanted to get off methadone. I don’t know what it’s like to get off dope using ibogaine I was clean when I took it. It has made a big change in my life but this is happening almost 2 years after I’ve been clean now. It is hard bro, so hard, so get off drugs. For real.

If you’re not prepared to handle all that and from what I’m reading ibogaine doesn’t change everything around just like that, wouldn’t it be better to just be on methadone maintenance if you can’t get clean?

I am only asking because what Larry said here sounded real true to me.

You have a lot of negative feeling at yourself karina, let it go it won’t help.

Peace out,
Curtis

On Mon, 26 Aug 2002 Rhafner77@cs.com wrote :
Karina,
I`m following your posts about kikking methadone& the thing that I don`t
understand, is why??
Is methadone so bad as to put yourself <& family> thru all this crap?? I
don`t mean to be judgemental or anything like that, my heart goes out to You.
I just don`t understand what s the big deal about methadone.
Personally, it seems like medicine one takes for an illness. Can You describe
the problems that methadone causes You?
I`m hoping      things work out for You, but issn`t it possable to deal with
this in another way? I`m just sorry You can`t find a `happy medium` take
care, & wishing You the best, larry t.

__________________________________________________________
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From: “Curtis Hersch” <crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] what happened over the wknd?
Date: August 25, 2002 at 11:25:10 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Not to be totally off topic but I figure someone here might know.

What the hell happened to the entire internet over the weekend? No less then half of everything I tried to access was just not there. And I don’t mean small sites, yahoo vanished off and on, google stuck around but lot of weird shit happened. Huge sites just vanished and went off the air. What was all that? And now I’m getting a big pile of mail that went out on thursday and it’s landing now. Not Mindvox list mail, mail in general. What happened?
Peace out,
Curtis

__________________________________________________________
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From: “Curtis Hersch” <crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] MTVox
Date: August 25, 2002 at 11:16:26 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey man, Patrick and crew, you people really ought to do something with opening up some ibogaine material sections and whatnot. You are all over the internet bro and it’s not these weird left of center niches which deal with the drug culture, you’re right in the middle with hacking, Mindvox, all of that. Your hit rate is outrageous and you could for real seriously open up exposure to all these cool things.

I know you said you’re working on it, I’m not here to bug you about opening on time whatever that means or because I need some email that isn’t lame, even if I do. But you know all these industry people, you know all these seriously weird tech people who promote drugs and are anti drug war, you should put all your writing in one place on mindvox, you should open more of a ibogaine section.

I don’t want to tell you what to do but you have a big audience here and it’s building. Whatever your relationship is with Dr. Mash, the lady does not own you, if she did I don’t think we’d all be here on a ibogaine list or you’d be running promos for all the other ibogaine. If she wants it or not I think it would be a really good thing to open a ibogaine information section right here.

Peace, I don’t want to steal that one from Preston but it’s a good way to close a message.

Curtis

On Mon, 26 Aug 2002 vector6@space.com wrote :

I’m here to remind everyone that my email is gone in
about 4 days. I just thought I’d mention it again.

MindVoxMTV

.:vector:.

http://www.ryze.org/view.php?who=RTercek

* New York, 1993
In the early 90s, MTV headquarters was searching for a
new mission. The channel was a decade old, and was
already an entrenched part of the TV landscape. I had
returned to Manhattan to head up the on-air promo
department, and my boss had succeeded in shattering the
ratings barrier with Beavis and Butthead. But it seemed
that the channel was drifting without a mission. We
were relying on the tired notion of “the New Music
Revolution” as our slogan. Computers were new and
interesting features in the office. I had brought in
Macintosh computers for my producers to use to
manipulate TV images (in those pre-PowerMac days
rotoscoping was done frame-by-frame in Photoshop). One
of the staff producers, Todd Mueller, showed me
Mindvox, a hip NYC ISP. I got very inspired and
recommended to MTV management that we buy the ISP and
offer MTV-branded Internet service, since this was
clearly where our audience was gathering. I was
disappointed, but not surprised, when one executive
snapped, “We’re trying to run a cable channel here.
This has nothing to do with our business.” Like many of
his colleagues, this particular executive had grown up
in the radio business before migrating to cable, which
was considered “new media” in the early 80s. They
weren’t ready to migrate to a new platform yet. I
wasn’t interested in spending more time in a stagnant
atmosphere, so I promptly resigned and headed out to LA
to start a software company.

__________________________________________________________
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From: “ElGrekkko” <ElGrekkko@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] Re: ibogaine and hep c
Date: August 25, 2002 at 11:18:59 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Having said all that, what would I personally do…
I would have at the
very least a basic emergency kit onhand.  I would
hope for the best, and I
wouldn’t touch anybody who gave me a really negative
vibe…  This may be
stupid, but I’m not dead, or in prison, and every
single time the alarms
went off in my head really loud, despite no other
evidence to support my
feelings…  I have been extremely fucking grateful
I listened, “hey
Patrick, it is TIME to bail, and get the fuck out of
this situation/place
‘cuz something really bad is right on the horizon,
and approaching very
rapidly.”

Same here. Bad vibe? RUN!!… Words to live by b/c you might die if you
don’t.
So what sort of emergency kit should one have handy, in this situation?

elg

From: vector6@space.com
Subject: [ibogaine] MTVox
Date: August 25, 2002 at 10:52:15 PM EDT
To: vox@mindvox.com, ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m here to remind everyone that my email is gone in
about 4 days. I just thought I’d mention it again.

MindVoxMTV

.:vector:.

http://www.ryze.org/view.php?who=RTercek

* New York, 1993
In the early 90s, MTV headquarters was searching for a
new mission. The channel was a decade old, and was
already an entrenched part of the TV landscape. I had
returned to Manhattan to head up the on-air promo
department, and my boss had succeeded in shattering the
ratings barrier with Beavis and Butthead. But it seemed
that the channel was drifting without a mission. We
were relying on the tired notion of “the New Music
Revolution” as our slogan. Computers were new and
interesting features in the office. I had brought in
Macintosh computers for my producers to use to
manipulate TV images (in those pre-PowerMac days
rotoscoping was done frame-by-frame in Photoshop). One
of the staff producers, Todd Mueller, showed me
Mindvox, a hip NYC ISP. I got very inspired and
recommended to MTV management that we buy the ISP and
offer MTV-branded Internet service, since this was
clearly where our audience was gathering. I was
disappointed, but not surprised, when one executive
snapped, “We’re trying to run a cable channel here.
This has nothing to do with our business.” Like many of
his colleagues, this particular executive had grown up
in the radio business before migrating to cable, which
was considered “new media” in the early 80s. They
weren’t ready to migrate to a new platform yet. I
wasn’t interested in spending more time in a stagnant
atmosphere, so I promptly resigned and headed out to LA
to start a software company.

___________________________________________________________________
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From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: Letter fr. HRC Confirming Ibo Panel at Seattle Conf.
Date: August 25, 2002 at 6:41:02 PM EDT
To: Dana Beal <cnw@calyx.net>
Cc: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Sun, Aug 25, 2002 at 05:58:46PM -0400], [Dana Beal] wrote:

| Note to Patrick:
|
| This was not the presention I submitted an abstract for, and frankly,
| my strategy for getting the treatment industry to pick up ibogaine is
| extremely indirect, due to the reservations of both the 12 step and
| methadone factions in dealing with psychedelic drugs of any kind. I
| haven’t a clue about how to move the treatment industry; instead I’m
| trying to change the climate with these forums, and create access by
| setting up more and cheaper treatment centers across the border.
| Maybe you can fill in. I presume you’re still up for this. Tell
| Pablo; I’ll check to see how much time we have.

Yeah mahn, good to go.  Whenever, wherever, we be there do0d.

Patrick

From: Dana Beal <cnw@calyx.net>
Subject: [ibogaine] Letter fr. HRC Confirming Ibo Panel at Seattle Conf.
Date: August 25, 2002 at 5:58:46 PM EDT
To: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Cc: “Jay Statzer” <jstatzer@qtm.net>, chrischmoo@yahoo.co.uk, biuro_69@csk.pl, Hattie <epoptica@freeuk.com>, “tony conte” <contetony@hotmail.com>, IBOGA Foundation <iboga@guest.arnes.si>, ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

August 22, 2002

Dana Beal
Cures not Wars
9 Bleecker St
New York, NY 10012

Dear Dana Beal:

On behalf of the review committee, and after reviewsing over 400 exciting and provocative abstracts, I am pleased to inform you that the following presentation has been acccepted for the 4th National Harm Reduction Conference.
bogaine: Moving the Treatment Industry beyond  Agonist /Antagonist/Maintenance Medications Towards an Addiction Interrupter Model

Please send us a very brief bio of nomore than 100 words to include in the program booklet by Monday, September 30. Please remember you are the point person for this presentation, and you should notify other authors/presenters.

HRC does not cover the costs of travel or lodging, unless you have a scholarship. Speakers are offered a reduced registration fee of $260.00. The scholarship process is closed. For those of you who applied for scholarships, award letter states your registration balance. If hotel accommodations are part of your scholarship do not makes reservations at the hotel, this will be done for you.

If you need to make your own hotel reservations at the Sheraton these should be made by November 1st. Please contact the hotel directly at 206-447-5555, do not forget to include your departure time. For airfare information contact Continental Airlines included in this letter is a voucher with discount information. After we receive both your bio and your conference registration fee, we will send you information on the date and time of your presentation. In the meantime, if you have any questions about your presentation, please contact me at 212-213-6376-ext. 15.

Thank you. We look forward to seeing you in Seattle in December.

Sincerely,

Paula Santiago
Conference Coordinator
Harm Reduction Coalition
22 West 27th Street 5th Floor
New York, NY 10001
fax: 212-213-6582
email: hrc@harmreduction.org
http://www.harmreduction.org

Note to Patrick:

This was not the presention I submitted an abstract for, and frankly, my strategy for getting the treatment industry to pick up ibogaine is extremely indirect, due to the reservations of both the 12 step and methadone factions in dealing with psychedelic drugs of any kind. I haven’t a clue about how to move the treatment industry; instead I’m trying to change the climate with these forums, and create access by setting up more and cheaper treatment centers across the border. Maybe you can fill in. I presume you’re still up for this. Tell Pablo; I’ll check to see how much time we have.

Dana/cnw

From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Question ::: HCL incremental doseage over time
Date: August 25, 2002 at 5:15:33 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

i cannot afford methadone i am laid  off but get unemployment…i got meth fot my husband and the$$$$$$$ i really cannot afford it…..my last dose 7/12  i should fine without it……..i went to my doctor and he gave me 150mg elavil i blacked out my poor husband did’nt know what to do i’m so brused from falling down,hitting doors walls…….this has to be it no more anything just my trazadone to sleep…i’m a total fuck up and it breaks my heart to put my husband through this……….this has to  stop………it’s all my fault i just have to stay clean 1st time in my life……..

From: Rhafner77@cs.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Question ::: HCL incremental doseage over time
Date: August 25, 2002 at 5:05:28 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Karina,
I`m following your posts about kikking methadone& the thing that I don`t understand, is why??
Is methadone so bad as to put yourself <& family> thru all this crap?? I don`t mean to be judgemental or anything like that, my heart goes out to You. I just don`t understand what s the big deal about methadone.
Personally, it seems like medicine one takes for an illness. Can You describe the problems that methadone causes You?
I`m hoping      things work out for You, but issn`t it possable to deal with this in another way? I`m just sorry You can`t find a `happy medium` take care, & wishing You the best, larry t.

From: “sara glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Question ::: HCL incremental doseage over time
Date: August 25, 2002 at 4:55:25 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

That Guy who sold iboga root died two week after taking iboga extract at my
home ,
he was drinking a lot ,was 52 years of age and had along history of drinking
,
one night after heavly drinking ,his heart gave up .

I use to give his product to people who like to stop smoking  ,

—– Original Message —–
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick.sandberg@btinternet.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2002 4:18 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Question ::: HCL incremental doseage over time

—– Original Message —–
From: “Gamma” <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2002 3:50 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] Question ::: HCL incremental doseage over time

anyone here familiar with low dose HCl spread over time –

[I’m thinking 50-100mgs/day spread over a week-?]

– for someone with a light vicodin habit who isn’t interested in a full
on
“head cleaner” all-at-once experience.

-dh

Most definitely worth a try in my opinion. Make sure your friend doesn’t
drive for a living, operate heavy machinery, lift pianos up the sides of
buildings, etc. I’ve done work with low doses of HCl a couple of times and
rootbark another, neither for addiction problems, but the effects are
noticeable and can be cumulative. Someone told me about doing 100mg a day
for a week or two once, they said there was a gradual effect then one day
a
powerful spiritual experience. Also, a guy in Amsterdam sells low dose
rootbark packages for addicts with some reported good effects, though the
guy himself seems to drink a lot and has depressive episodes. The site is
listed somewhere on my options page at www.ibogaine.co.uk/options.htm

Generally, I’d say it’s well worth experimenting with low doses without
excessive expectation.

Nick

From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Question ::: HCL incremental doseage over time
Date: August 25, 2002 at 4:43:18 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

where do you get this hcl i am try to kick a small vicodin habit kaeina

From: “booker w” <swbooker@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine Death in Germany
Date: August 25, 2002 at 4:38:34 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Dr. Chaves:
Would you mind explaining briefly what cardiotoxic and arrythmiogenic means exactly when it comes to ibogaine.  I took ibo three times, never had any previous heart problem but 4 months after my third trip I developed complete heart block, which now only occurs about one percent of the time, if that.  But it happened enough that I had to get a pacemaker.  I am still interested if ibogaine might be involved, although it seems like if the heart block occured 4 months down the road, ibogaine could hardly be implicated?
Thanks for any info…
Sandy Watson

>From: “Dr. Bruno Daniel Rasmussen Chaves”

>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>To: , “ibogaine”

>Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine Death in Germany

>Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 17:09:37 -0300

>

>Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine Death in GermanyHello

>

>This sad history comes to prove one thing that we must not forget: the ibogaine administration protocol must always be strictly followed. As this woman who died was a cardiac patient, she had an ABSOLUTE CONTRAINDICATION for taking ibogaine, as ibogaine is arrhythmogenic and cardiotoxic. This kind of contraindications must be respected; no one could think that he or she is above them. This is very well explained in the ibogaine treatment manual , written by Lotsof et al. No one that followed the Lotsof’s protocol ever died.

>

> It is sad that a person died, and is sad that this kind of happening seriously impairs the serious work about ibogaine development that is being conducted in the world. Ibogaine administration, IMHO, is a medical procedure that must be done in an adequate environment.

>If you will extract your gallblader, for example, you will not do it in your bedroom, with a friend helping you. With ibogaine treatment is the same thing.

>

>peace for all of you,

>

>Bruno

>

>

>

>Dr. Bruno Daniel Rasmussen Chaves, M.D.

>bruno@rasmussen.org

>daniras@argon.com.br

>

>www.argon.com.br/usuarios/dr.Bruno

>

>

>

> From: Dana Beal [mailto:cnw@calyx.net]

> Sent: 19 August 2002 21:13

> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

> Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine Death in Germany

>

>

> A young woman tragically died during an informal ibogaine session in Germany last month (July 2002). The death occurred about one and a half hours after taking 500mg of ibogaine HCl for personal development purposes. The cause of death is not yet established. The woman, aged 35 years and weighing 63 kg, had used the drug previously on one occasion without problem. Her partner has requested that I put out this basic announcement. More details will be posted once they become available.

>

> Sorry to be the bearer of such bad tidings

>

> Nick

>

>

> Note that this was not a treatment for addiction, so that attitude of the participants may have been a bit casual. What I’ve learned so far is that she took it after traveling, without resting up first, so that she may have been dehydrated without realizing it. Mash found that virtually all arythmias could be eliminated by just making sure subjects are well-hydrated.

>

>

> She had had open-heart surgery in the past. A year ago, a doctor assured her her heart was alright, without knowing what she wanted the information for.

>

>

> It’s also worth noting that another person taking the same batch of HCl for oxycontin addiction went “into arrest” on only 600 milligrams–just 100 more than this person–and was brought out of it only because a nurse was present who knew CPR. It turned out this person had an undisclosed history of seizures. So it could turn out to be batch-related.

>

>

> I talked to Hattie yesterday, and she has suspended treatments because it turned out 5 people lied about their positive hepatitis C status because they knew she wouldn’t treat them if they told her the truth. Drug abusers lie. On the other hand, I personally believe ibogaine use should be restricted to active addicts because the risk/benefit situation is much more defensible if something goes wrong, as in this case. Bottom line–you want something for self-development, do acid.

>

>

> The person who just died also had a fascination with death and the afterlife, so we may have a “death’s door” situation here–where she went through the door and didn’t feel like coming back. Mash was making people sign an contract, agreeing to come back. But try telling that to NIDA. As I understand it, CPR was tried, she almost came back, and then he lost her.

>

>

> Nic, tell him I just lost all my email, so I’d like him to send those posts again where she talks about this. I didn’t really get a chance to read them. The Paris forum is looking good, and we may be able to put something together in Italy. Dr Ken says the only spin you can put on this is that desparate people are going to do Ibogaine, so it has to be put under the control of physicians so that fatalities can be minimized. Also, this is making the Indra look a little safer, albeit very nauseating.

>

>

> Dana/cnw

>

>

Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: Click Here

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick.sandberg@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Question ::: HCL incremental doseage over time
Date: August 25, 2002 at 10:18:27 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: “Gamma” <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2002 3:50 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] Question ::: HCL incremental doseage over time

anyone here familiar with low dose HCl spread over time –

[I’m thinking 50-100mgs/day spread over a week-?]

– for someone with a light vicodin habit who isn’t interested in a full on
“head cleaner” all-at-once experience.

-dh

Most definitely worth a try in my opinion. Make sure your friend doesn’t
drive for a living, operate heavy machinery, lift pianos up the sides of
buildings, etc. I’ve done work with low doses of HCl a couple of times and
rootbark another, neither for addiction problems, but the effects are
noticeable and can be cumulative. Someone told me about doing 100mg a day
for a week or two once, they said there was a gradual effect then one day a
powerful spiritual experience. Also, a guy in Amsterdam sells low dose
rootbark packages for addicts with some reported good effects, though the
guy himself seems to drink a lot and has depressive episodes. The site is
listed somewhere on my options page at www.ibogaine.co.uk/options.htm

Generally, I’d say it’s well worth experimenting with low doses without
excessive expectation.

Nick

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick.sandberg@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine Death in Germany
Date: August 25, 2002 at 10:26:09 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

As I see it, at the end of the day, if you’re going to administer ibogaine to people outside of a medical environment you need to be very clear in your head about how you’d handle someone dying. As long as you’re sure you could face this clearly and go through any legal stuff that might happen, then it’s totally fine to go ahead and treat.

But, if you feel your mind coming up with a lot of “it wasn’t my fault” type stuff when you think about this scenario, stuff like…. “she just walked through a door”; “but he said to me he’d had the tests”; “look, the government and doctors don’t treat people so I have to”; etc, etc….. then the outlook is not so good, imo. If you think this way, if there is a tendency to deflect blame, then it’s gonna hit you very hard if it happens and you probably aren’t going to be able to handle it long-term. Just the way the mind and emotions work.

Nick

—– Original Message —–
From: Dr. Bruno Daniel Rasmussen Chaves
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com ; ibogaine
Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 9:09 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine Death in Germany

Hello

This sad history comes to prove one thing that we must not forget: the ibogaine administration protocol must always be strictly followed. As this woman who died was a cardiac patient, she had an ABSOLUTE CONTRAINDICATION for taking ibogaine, as ibogaine is arrhythmogenic and cardiotoxic. This kind of contraindications must be respected; no one could think that he or she is above them. This is very well explained in the ibogaine treatment manual , written by Lotsof et al. No one that followed the Lotsof’s protocol ever died.

It is sad that a person died, and is sad that this kind of happening seriously impairs the serious work about ibogaine development that is being conducted in the world. Ibogaine administration, IMHO,  is a medical procedure that must be done in an adequate environment.
If you will extract your gallblader, for example, you will not do it in your bedroom, with a friend helping you. With ibogaine treatment is the same thing.

peace for all of you,

Bruno

Dr. Bruno Daniel Rasmussen Chaves, M.D.
bruno@rasmussen.org
daniras@argon.com.br

www.argon.com.br/usuarios/dr.Bruno

From: Dana Beal [mailto:cnw@calyx.net]
Sent: 19 August 2002 21:13
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine Death in Germany

A young woman tragically died during an informal ibogaine session in Germany last month (July 2002). The death occurred about one and a half hours after taking 500mg of ibogaine HCl for personal development purposes. The cause of death is not yet established. The woman, aged 35 years and weighing 63 kg, had used the drug previously on one occasion without problem. Her partner has requested that I put out this basic announcement. More details will be posted once they become available.

Sorry to be the bearer of such bad tidings

Nick

Note that this was not a treatment for addiction, so that attitude of the participants may have been a bit casual. What I’ve learned so far is that she took it after traveling, without resting up first, so that she may have been dehydrated without realizing it. Mash found that virtually all arythmias could be eliminated by just making sure subjects are well-hydrated.

She had had open-heart surgery in the past. A year ago, a doctor assured her her heart was alright, without knowing what she wanted the information for.

It’s also worth noting that another person taking the same batch of HCl for oxycontin addiction went “into arrest” on  only 600 milligrams–just 100 more than this person–and was brought out of it only because a nurse was present who knew CPR. It turned out this person had an undisclosed history of seizures. So it could turn out to be batch-related.

I talked to Hattie yesterday, and she has suspended treatments because it turned out 5 people lied about their positive hepatitis C status because they knew she wouldn’t treat them if they told her the truth. Drug abusers lie. On the other hand, I personally believe ibogaine use should be restricted to active addicts because the risk/benefit situation is much more defensible if something goes wrong, as in this case. Bottom line–you want something for self-development, do acid.

The person who just died also had a fascination with death and the afterlife, so we may have a “death’s door” situation here–where she went through the door and didn’t feel like coming back. Mash was making people sign an contract, agreeing to come back. But try telling that to NIDA. As I understand it, CPR was tried, she almost came back, and then he lost her.

Nic, tell him I just lost all my email, so I’d like him to send those posts again where she talks about this. I didn’t really get a chance to read them. The Paris forum is looking good, and we may be able to put something together in Italy. Dr Ken says the only spin you can put on this is that desparate people are going to do Ibogaine, so it has to be put under the control of physicians so that fatalities can be minimized. Also, this is making the Indra look a little safer, albeit very nauseating.

Dana/cnw

From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] For Karina with love we care
Date: August 25, 2002 at 3:19:08 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hi, i really fucked up i took 150mgs of elavil..i blacked out…….i kept falling down running  into walls i look lik i was in car accident i am all bruidsed up…….i quit i have to or i’ll die…..the only good thing out of all this no more methadone…almost killed my self to get off but no methadone……….karuna

From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] For Karina with love we care
Date: August 25, 2002 at 3:15:06 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

i really fucked up i too 150mgs of elavil…i blacked out ran it all the walls kept falling down i  look like i was i a car accident…….my poor hubby did not know what to do i was uncontrol able……i have to stop or i’ll die…..i do not remember a thing……no more….karina

From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] For Karina with love we care
Date: August 25, 2002 at 3:10:35 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

i don’t know where to start  i left rehab cause they would not do anything for my legs i called a friend who took me to the ER then the next day i went to the doctor he gave me 150mg elavil i blacked out my husband was even crying cause i messed myself up bad i ran into the walls kept falling down it looks like i was in car accident i am bruised  all over…..i quit no more  i am going to killmyself…if i don’t stop now…….all i wanted is to get off methadone  that’s it     that shit is so hard to get off……but i think I’ll be ok???????karina

From: “sara glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine Death in Germany
Date: August 25, 2002 at 5:57:47 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: Nick Sandberg
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2002 3:58 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine Death in Germany

—– Original Message —–
From: Andria Efthimiou-Mordaunt
To: ‘ibogaine@mindvox.com’
Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 1:58 PM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Ibogaine Death in Germany

Thanx for this Dana
Hattie also said it may have been to do with this enzyme that some of us simply do not have, that means there is a danger of all sorts for some people; who’s on the list now that knows that biochemical deatail
Howard? Brett – anybody out there?

sadness to discover another treatment can kill us; is anything safe 4 us?

Anyways

Love and hugs always

andria

I don’t have any updates on the death, and I doubt there’ll be more knowledge about it until after the official investigation, which could be months or years. From what I heard, the young lady did have a previous considerable heart condition which, I guess, can serve, perhaps, to reinforce how important it is for people considering doing ibogaine to really get the medical tests done. There is a tendency for people to just skip this stuff and bullshit the treatment provider. This is dangerous terrain to step into.

Nick

From what I know she did  Ibogaine before and there was no problem with enzyme or her heart  condition ,
her Doc. said to her that her heart was fine he may didn’t think how fine ,he may didn’t look good ? would it be okey for her to do ibogaine ?
Also Dorctors  make a mistakes  they are just humans too , it was just that it happened to her  , would it be
unfortunately by chance ?

I don’t think that it is all due to a physical condition ,She past  away one and half hour after taking her 500mg dose ,why ? would an allergic reaction take that long to show ? and why she  didn’t show any problem
taking ibogaine the first time she took it ? which was not long before this time .

she may just saw the other side and knew that her time came to go there , as I heard her last words were
” Jesus christ !” and she was very happy  then she past away ,may her spirit be blessed .
there was no trace of ibogaine in her blood ,If it was on a physical level only I think the ibogaine would be
traceable ,

Unfortunately there are  heart condition and death caused by alcohol and other over the counter drugs .

take care,

Sara
From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine Death in Germany
Date: August 24, 2002 at 7:35:12 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

And this is why, as I’ve argued over and over and I’m sure Dana and others are with me on this; we need to get the established treatmenters to take this on, OR find the funding to do this in safe surroundings with trained medical people

In my 1 experience of doing this as a guide, I cannot put my hand on my heart and say I knew enough to feel safe with the men that I was acting as guide to/with. I asked many questions about their health as both of them were severely ill:

One had the most dreadful scarring as a result of long years of injecting all sorts of cut drugs, diconal (which has silicon in it) and more
The other was anorectic, and his body weight was very low indeed; the person advising me would have given him 5grms of that powder if I hadn’t put my foot down and insisted that his body weakness could not have tolerated this dose.

As it happens, the former became stabilised on Methadone within a few months and found a woman to be his companion, which made a great difference to his life; this Iboga acted as a catalyst to a better life.

The second guy died 7 months later of starvation… nothing to do with Iboga, but still very sad.

When Hattie wrote the excellent article she write for the UV, we were emphatic that this treatment needs to be taken more seriously by the drugs field, but so far, as far as I’m aware it’s still very minority and underground in London/U.K

But judging by everything I’ve heard there is still some good reason to act with caution.

Respect and strength to y’all for caring as much as u do

Andria

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] iboga sources and some info
Date: August 24, 2002 at 3:47:06 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I was peeking around for info on ibogaine and came
across a few sources of iboga products – for
informational purposes only… Be careful who you do
business with and RESEARCH the product before
purchasing. Some of the instructions and
&#34;advice&#34;, how &#34;good it is&#34;… may be
questionable. Always get several sources of
information when using ibogaine or for ammunition
reloading – in either case you could blow yourself up
if someone else makes a mistake…

Every now and then I repeat some basic searches on
ibogaine. It is VERY clear that it is gathering
momentum and critical mass quite fast. This was from
only one search in one search engine (yahoo &#34;iboga
root bark&#34;), I am sure more could easily be found.

I will skip the usual suspects (sources) that are
listed on Nicks and other ibogaine sites. (link
follows text)

Ethnogarden Botanicals has previously been mentioned –
they sell iboga root bark, ibogaine HCL and 16X
extract that they make themselves. Prices are quite
reasonable (retail), note their wholesale price list
is NOT listed on their web site. The 16X extract is in
base form and is used mg for mg (instead of HCL).

This was &#34;curious&#34;

they sell iboga root in 100kg quantities (yes KG or
100,000gm of root bark)- I didn’t get a price
&lt;g&gt;. Just have it drop shipped to Washington
Square park.

http://members.tripod.com/agrodenree/products.htm

Didn’t check but they seem to be shipping out of
Switzerland (odd…), no note about not shipping to
the US or any other countries so know your local laws
before you order. 100g roots: USD $115.00 (and smaller
amounts).

http://www.cannapee.ch/ethnoshop/prodcat.html

Cosmic Shrooms… they seem to be OFF LINE (hummm…)

They mention they carry it and a lot of other herbs
that are not listed on their site – email them.

http://www.archaicherbs.com/main.phtml

A Russian Food site, they mention they are looking for
iboga root BUYERS (in April), nothing off hand I can
find on the site otherwise – looks YUMMY though.

http://www.russianfoods.com/showroom/product0212D/vendor004C6/default.asp

From PSYCHEDELIC RESOURCE LIST
New Fourth Edition — Available in September 2002

They have a section on iboga sources, of course you
have to send them $23 for it. Intresting that iboga is
finding its way into &#34;culture&#34;. I find myself
on edge about people getting their hands on it (enough
of it) and trying to get high (wonder what happens
when mixed with a RAVE and XTC) or not following
protocol (which is pretty much guaranteed).

http://www.entheogenreview.com/prl.html

This was interesting (not a source) on iboga additives

SNIP from the Journal of psychoactive plants and
compounds – EYE DROPS (will peek at the site later,
might be some good info there)

&#34;Stanislav Swiderski, the eminent scholar of the
Bwitist religion, initiated in the Dissumba sect, adds
that ebama (plural bibama) is used to enhance the
visual, auditory and perceptial capabilities of the
candidates&#34;

http://www.eleusis.ws/en/articles/vel-eyedrops.shtml

These folks list iboga, gotta contact them for more
info (they are under construction, no price list/info
for any products yet, just a product list).

http://www.meyskens-botanicals.yucom.be/Products.html

They sell root, root bark and extract (their own
creation) which I would guess is an acid based liquid
extract of absolutely unknown quality (other than very
likely LOW) or potency. They also mention the
following;

alchornea floribunda — Niando
The root of these bushy plants, native to he tropical
forests of West-Africa, is used ritually by some
tribes, often in combination with tabernanthe iboga.
We offer pieces of the Niando root as an amulett.

http://www.elixier.de/items.php3?CA=2&la=En&s=l&UID=70038fa1e7ee1692b241136bc74945f2

These folks sell bulk, I think the prices are in Euros
– so 1kg of iboga root bark is 737 EU.

‘Tabernanthe iboga dried root bark’ ‘434563’ ‘ 1Kg737
5Kg2916 10Kg4658’

http://www.b-and-t-world-seeds.com/herbal.asp

This is an export FORUM – LOADS of exporters by
continent… wonder if they send samples – a B2B site
with a very arge number of exporters listed (for all
kinds of stuff) Iboga is a listed African export.

export-forum.com (english and french)

They use to carry it but don’t any longer (they are in
Calif… Oops), nice list of plant products though.

http://www.greenstranger.com/

It is here (in spanish)

http://www.fut.es/~jalbam/enteo-psiquers/producto.htm

Brett

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick.sandberg@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine Death in Germany
Date: August 24, 2002 at 9:58:22 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: Andria Efthimiou-Mordaunt
To: ‘ibogaine@mindvox.com’
Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 1:58 PM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Ibogaine Death in Germany

Thanx for this Dana
Hattie also said it may have been to do with this enzyme that some of us simply do not have, that means there is a danger of all sorts for some people; who’s on the list now that knows that biochemical deatail
Howard? Brett – anybody out there?

sadness to discover another treatment can kill us; is anything safe 4 us?

Anyways

Love and hugs always

andria

I don’t have any updates on the death, and I doubt there’ll be more knowledge about it until after the official investigation, which could be months or years. From what I heard, the young lady did have a previous considerable heart condition which, I guess, can serve, perhaps, to reinforce how important it is for people considering doing ibogaine to really get the medical tests done. There is a tendency for people to just skip this stuff and bullshit the treatment provider. This is dangerous terrain to step into.

Nick

From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] removal from mailing list
Date: August 24, 2002 at 3:41:16 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com

— Glen Brazell <petzlneck@msn.com> wrote:
please remove me from your mailing list. i am receiving 20 to 30 e-mails a
day about stuff that i really dont give a rip about. when i contacted you, i
had one question, and it hasnt even been close to being answered. once again,
take me off of your e-mail network. permenantly. i have everything i need to
know. no more e-mails. NONE.Get more from the Web.  FREE MSN Explorer
download : http://explorer.msn.com

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

From: “ElGrekkko” <ElGrekkko@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] removal from mailing list
Date: August 24, 2002 at 2:41:21 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

What was the question you wanted answered? It’s hard to pay attention when there’s so much going on. So what was it? I’m sure people noticed you, with this post of yours.

—– Original Message —–
From: Glen Brazell
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 11:12 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] removal >from mailing list

please remove me from your mailing list. i am receiving 20 to 30 e-mails a day about stuff that i really dont give a rip about. when i contacted you, i had one question, and it hasnt even been close to being answered. once again, take me off of your e-mail network. permenantly. i have everything i need to know. no more e-mails. NONE.

Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Non-Ibo related Question
Date: August 23, 2002 at 11:12:30 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Do U really have hummus flavoured panties? G, d’u s’ppose we have them in London
Me being a greek and everything, I could try and send them to somebody to try
andria

From: “Glen Brazell” <petzlneck@msn.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] removal from mailing list
Date: August 23, 2002 at 11:12:10 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

please remove me from your mailing list. i am receiving 20 to 30 e-mails a day about stuff that i really dont give a rip about. when i contacted you, i had one question, and it hasnt even been close to being answered. once again, take me off of your e-mail network. permenantly. i have everything i need to know. no more e-mails. NONE.

Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Non-Ibo related Question
Date: August 23, 2002 at 11:00:22 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— AndriaE@aol.com wrote:
U ‘taking the piss’ as we say in London?
andria

um, if you are reffering to ‘Golden Showers’, I refuse to comment.

Just hungry.

-gamma

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From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Non-Ibo related Question
Date: August 23, 2002 at 10:56:49 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

U ‘taking the piss’ as we say in London?
andria

From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Non-Ibo related Question
Date: August 23, 2002 at 10:55:28 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Anybody here know where to purchase

Hummus Flavored Organic Edible Panties?

just curious.

-Gamma

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From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Question ::: HCL incremental doseage over time
Date: August 23, 2002 at 10:50:28 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

anyone here familiar with low dose HCl spread over time –

[I’m thinking 50-100mgs/day spread over a week-?]

– for someone with a light vicodin habit who isn’t interested in a full on
“head cleaner” all-at-once experience.

-dh

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From: “Dr. Bruno Daniel Rasmussen Chaves” <daniras@argon.com.br>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine Death in Germany
Date: August 23, 2002 at 4:09:37 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, “ibogaine” <ibogaine@bol.com.br>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello

This sad history comes to prove one thing that we must not forget: the ibogaine administration protocol must always be strictly followed. As this woman who died was a cardiac patient, she had an ABSOLUTE CONTRAINDICATION for taking ibogaine, as ibogaine is arrhythmogenic and cardiotoxic. This kind of contraindications must be respected; no one could think that he or she is above them. This is very well explained in the ibogaine treatment manual , written by Lotsof et al. No one that followed the Lotsof’s protocol ever died.

It is sad that a person died, and is sad that this kind of happening seriously impairs the serious work about ibogaine development that is being conducted in the world. Ibogaine administration, IMHO,  is a medical procedure that must be done in an adequate environment.
If you will extract your gallblader, for example, you will not do it in your bedroom, with a friend helping you. With ibogaine treatment is the same thing.

peace for all of you,

Bruno

Dr. Bruno Daniel Rasmussen Chaves, M.D.
bruno@rasmussen.org
daniras@argon.com.br

www.argon.com.br/usuarios/dr.Bruno

From: Dana Beal [mailto:cnw@calyx.net]
Sent: 19 August 2002 21:13
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine Death in Germany

A young woman tragically died during an informal ibogaine session in Germany last month (July 2002). The death occurred about one and a half hours after taking 500mg of ibogaine HCl for personal development purposes. The cause of death is not yet established. The woman, aged 35 years and weighing 63 kg, had used the drug previously on one occasion without problem. Her partner has requested that I put out this basic announcement. More details will be posted once they become available.

Sorry to be the bearer of such bad tidings

Nick

Note that this was not a treatment for addiction, so that attitude of the participants may have been a bit casual. What I’ve learned so far is that she took it after traveling, without resting up first, so that she may have been dehydrated without realizing it. Mash found that virtually all arythmias could be eliminated by just making sure subjects are well-hydrated.

She had had open-heart surgery in the past. A year ago, a doctor assured her her heart was alright, without knowing what she wanted the information for.

It’s also worth noting that another person taking the same batch of HCl for oxycontin addiction went “into arrest” on  only 600 milligrams–just 100 more than this person–and was brought out of it only because a nurse was present who knew CPR. It turned out this person had an undisclosed history of seizures. So it could turn out to be batch-related.

I talked to Hattie yesterday, and she has suspended treatments because it turned out 5 people lied about their positive hepatitis C status because they knew she wouldn’t treat them if they told her the truth. Drug abusers lie. On the other hand, I personally believe ibogaine use should be restricted to active addicts because the risk/benefit situation is much more defensible if something goes wrong, as in this case. Bottom line–you want something for self-development, do acid.

The person who just died also had a fascination with death and the afterlife, so we may have a “death’s door” situation here–where she went through the door and didn’t feel like coming back. Mash was making people sign an contract, agreeing to come back. But try telling that to NIDA. As I understand it, CPR was tried, she almost came back, and then he lost her.

Nic, tell him I just lost all my email, so I’d like him to send those posts again where she talks about this. I didn’t really get a chance to read them. The Paris forum is looking good, and we may be able to put something together in Italy. Dr Ken says the only spin you can put on this is that desparate people are going to do Ibogaine, so it has to be put under the control of physicians so that fatalities can be minimized. Also, this is making the Indra look a little safer, albeit very nauseating.

Dana/cnw

From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] For Karina with love we care
Date: August 23, 2002 at 2:49:13 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

An echo of Prestons reply, although as an ex-junkie cannot stand pot anymore!
It makes me think too much. I am a firm believer in the harm reduction realm.
Sure, complete abstinence is ideal for the brain/emotions to begin to recover,
but it isn’t always realistic.

Stepping down with methadone does get you off the street so to speak, and as
much hardship I encountered through the clinic and how I felt physically while
on methadone, it, without a doubt, saved my life. and then ibogaine rescued me
from the metahdone but thats another story.

So while in treatment, take what you need and leave the rest. Guilt and shame
are the stumbling blocks of recovery [as in treatment centers/12 step
ideology], so don’t buy into that trip. Be good to yourself and do what works
best for you. figuring that out might mean stumbling a few times, just pick
yourself up and keep at it.

I remember telling some guy at a meeting I thought they were brainwashing me in
treatment. He then informed me that my brain probably needed a good cleaning.
At the time I was indignant. In retrospect, there may have been some truth to
that statement.

Yeah, meetings helped me, but so do a plethora of other stuff, which mainly
stem from taking care of myself, which was hard to learn and still has plenty
of room for improvement in my life.

-dh

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From: vector6@space.com
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [ibogaine] Re: ibogaine and hep c
Date: August 23, 2002 at 2:18:07 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I remember this convo… Wow, doesn’t it just suck to
be totally right.

.:vector:.

On Fri, 23 August 2002, Carla Barnes wrote:

Forward of one of the CYP2D6 msgs.

Carla B

— &quot;Patrick K. Kroupa&quot;
&lt;digital@phantom.com&gt; wrote:
&gt; Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 14:12:57 -0400
&gt; From: &quot;Patrick K. Kroupa&quot;
&lt;digital@phantom.com&gt;
&gt; To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
&gt; Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: ibogaine and hep c
&gt;
&gt; On [Wed, May 22, 2002 at 02:13:25PM +0100],
[Andria
&gt; Efthimiou-Mordaunt] wrote:
&gt;
&gt; | Jon
&gt; |
&gt; | Which country are you in?
&gt;
&gt; John is Dr. Pablo, he lives in the country of the
&gt; mind, in a state of
&gt; insanity.  Which is to say, most of the time, 20
&gt; yards away from where I
&gt; am.  Or Miami even, to put it another way.
&gt;
&gt; | You may be referring to Liver Function Test and
&gt; FBC (Full Blodd Counts) but
&gt; | as far as I’m aware these will not give you the
&gt; full mckoy on the state of
&gt; | ones liver. Hattie, don’t get confused. Send an
&gt; e-mail to Mat Dolan, who
&gt; | wrote the HCV Handbook (my potty buddy and he
&gt; really is my teacher on HCV)
&gt; | cos he has to be updated as a result of
re-writing
&gt; his book each 2 yrs or so
&gt;
&gt; Look…  Alla youz can beat nomenclature,
details,
&gt; and theory, into the
&gt; dust, then sift through it sideways searching for
&gt; &lt;whatever&gt;.  But it’s
&gt; pretty simple:
&gt;
&gt; Yes, to the best of my knowledge at this point in
&gt; time, it is not possible
&gt; to accurately and exactly test liver function
&gt; without a biopsy.  However,
&gt; this is going off on a tangent.  If you run the
&gt; standard, simple blood
&gt; tests which include a liver panel, and nothing
comes
&gt; up really wacked,
&gt; then you are more or less — probably — okay.
&gt;
&gt; This isn’t the be all, end all, of testing,
because
&gt; it’s a really good
&gt; idea to test for the prescence of a gene (CYP2D6
&gt; [Cytochrome p450 2D6])
&gt; for the protein which metabolizes ibogaine.
There
&gt; is a certain percentage
&gt; of the population which does NOT have the
wildtype
&gt; gene.
&gt;
&gt; Ibogaine can be metabolized without it, usually
the
&gt; answer is a much lower
&gt; dose.  However.  If someone has Hep C — in an
&gt; active/uncontrolled state,
&gt; lacks this gene (how you would go about testing
for
&gt; it in other parts of
&gt; the world, I do not know…  I just know what
&gt; happens here.  It should not
&gt; be impossible.), you dose ’em with a
&quot;low&quot; dose of
&gt; ibogaine to be safe …
&gt; the end result can still be a dead body, because
the
&gt; ibogaine isn’t being
&gt; metabolized/metabolized fast enough, and then you
&gt; wind up with shit like
&gt; Q-T prolongation and torsades.
&gt;
&gt; And if you wind up with these situations in an
&gt; environment where there
&gt; isn’t anyone present that knows how to prevent
them
&gt; from dropping dead.
&gt; Presto, you gots a dead body.
&gt;
&gt; In short, lots of super-bad THINGS can happen.
&gt;
&gt; None of these are Great Secrets.  All this shit
has
&gt; been published
&gt; already.
&gt;
&gt; – – – – – – – – –
&gt;
&gt; To summarize:  You need roughly half your liver
&gt; still going.  (presuming
&gt; this is the problem, and your heart is
&quot;okay&quot; and
&gt; nothing else is really
&gt; wacked the fuck out.)
&gt;
&gt; – – – – – – – – –
&gt;
&gt; Now…  Here’s the great big grey area…
&gt;
&gt; What’s &quot;good enough&quot; … and how do
you define that.
&gt;
&gt; Medicine isn’t very exact, there are an awful
lot of
&gt; very healthy people
&gt; who drop dead for all sorts of reasons — other
than
&gt; being shot, OD’ing,
&gt; or getting hit by a truck — and there are an
equal
&gt; or greater number of
&gt; people who have a Fucking Towering Mountain of
shit
&gt; wrong with them, who
&gt; really should have dropped dead decades ago, and
&gt; they keep right on
&gt; living.  &lt;shrug&gt;
&gt;
&gt; To drop into the subjective: when I wanted to
dose
&gt; with ibogaine, I lied
&gt; about every fucking thing imaginable, regarding
what
&gt; I was or was not
&gt; taking, and the doses I was on, because I was
afraid
&gt; nobody would even
&gt; attempt to detox me from all that shit (200mg
&gt; methadone + roughly 2
&gt; grams of heroin + 12mg xanax, on an average day,
to
&gt; just get &quot;normal&quot;).
&gt;
&gt; All my tests are within &quot;normal&quot;
ranges, whether due
&gt; to karma, luck,
&gt; genetics, or simply because I’m still
indestructible
&gt; and not old enough to
&gt; have suffered direct physical consequences from
all
&gt; the stupid shit I’ve
&gt; done to myself.
&gt;
&gt; However…  Were my tests NOT normal.  Would I
have
&gt; shrugged, said, &quot;oh
&gt; well, I can’t do this,&quot; and moved on to
another
&gt; possible treatment?  FUCK
&gt; NO.  Tried ’em all, none worked, this is what I
&gt; WANT/NEED.  I do not give
&gt; a fuck what your inclusion/exclusion criteria is,
&gt; for me this is my life,
&gt; I am on a kamikaze run, and if it kills me, who
&gt; gives a shit, it’s not
&gt; like I’m living now anyway; just my time to go.
Oh
&gt; well.
&gt;
&gt; What I’m saying is; if my tests were in any way
&gt; abnormal, I would have
&gt; simply engaged in some creative art, printed up
some
&gt; Just Super Fine
&gt; Perfect results, and if you wanted to receive
those
&gt; results from a doctor
&gt; or a lab; well hey, no problem, I will access the
&gt; switch that their phones
&gt; are on, and for that entire afternoon or day,
every
&gt; single call going into
&gt; or out of those offices, will go to ME instead.
&gt; You’re not gonna stop me,
&gt; I may be crazy, but I’m not stupid, I need this,
I
&gt; don’t care what you
&gt; want or don’t want.
&gt;
&gt; And, I’d posit there are a whole lot of people
who
&gt; would do same, or
&gt; something similar.
&gt;
&gt; This is called desperation.  &lt;see also: drug
&gt; dependence&gt;
&gt;
&gt; To conclude this rambling in some cohesive
manner: I
&gt; absolutely think
&gt; people who are in the &quot;grey area&quot;
should have the
&gt; chance to get their
&gt; lives back.  However, there are a whole lot of
&gt; variables there to deal
&gt; with…  I would strongly suggest that SOMEONE
who
&gt; knows what to do in the
&gt; event of a medical emergency, is present, when
&gt; you’re dosing anybody who
&gt; fits this criteria…  If they had a few pieces
of
&gt; useful equipment
&gt; onhand, this really wouldn’t hurt either.
&gt;
&gt; Because if they drop dead, oh well, their
problems
&gt; are over, better luck
&gt; in your next life.  But yours have just begun.
You
&gt; now have a dead body,
&gt; and depending on what part of the world you’re
in,
&gt; it’s quite possible you
&gt; will face murder or manslaughter charges — no
&gt; matter how good your
&gt; intentions were.
&gt;
&gt; – – – – – – – – –
&gt;
&gt; Having said all that, what would I personally
do…
&gt; I would have at the
&gt; very least a basic emergency kit onhand.  I would
&gt; hope for the best, and I
&gt; wouldn’t touch anybody who gave me a really
negative
&gt; vibe…  This may be
&gt; stupid, but I’m not dead, or in prison, and every
&gt; single time the alarms
&gt; went off in my head really loud, despite no other
&gt; evidence to support my
&gt; feelings…  I have been extremely fucking
grateful
&gt; I listened, &quot;hey
&gt; Patrick, it is TIME to bail, and get the fuck
out of
&gt; this situation/place
&gt; ‘cuz something really bad is right on the
horizon,
&gt; and approaching very
&gt; rapidly.&quot;
&gt;
&gt; Beyond that, it’s very hard to say…  Is this
&gt; person all fucked up and
&gt; acting weird because they’re smoking crack, going
&gt; through withdrawal,
&gt; or because there’s something seriously wrong with
&gt; them…  Getting that
&gt; answer without medical testing borders on the
&gt; impossible.
&gt;
&gt; Because, as I may have mentioned…  People who
are
&gt; desperate, tend to lie
&gt; an awful lot.  Especially when they have very
little
&gt; left to lose.
&gt;
&gt; Patrick
&gt;

___________________________________________________________________
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From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Fwd: Re: [ibogaine] Re: ibogaine and hep c
Date: August 23, 2002 at 1:05:56 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

If these go through more then once I’m sorry but I
hate yahoo, it is sooooo awful. I hit send at least 15
times on the last one and don’t know if it went even
once.

Carla B

— John Pablo <jpp71@hotmail.com> wrote:
From: “John Pablo” <jpp71@hotmail.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 14:00:14 -0400
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: ibogaine and hep c

As we all are aware, Hep C when active is a virus
that attacks the liver,
the filter/detoxifier of the body.  The main enzymes
that are responsible
for metabolizing a great percentage of the drugs we
ingest are located in
this organ.  Hence, if your liver was damaged from
having been exposed to
hepatitis C, then there is a good chance that the
normal level of the enzyme
that is required (i.e. cytochrome P450-2D6) to
properly metabolize a typical
oral dose of  ibogaine would not be present.
However, being tested positive
for Hep C does not necessarily mean that your liver
has been effected beyond
recovery.  In fact, one’s immune system could
concievably have succesfully
combated the virus without ever having had symptoms,
but of course they
would still test positive for exposure.  So, to say
someone is positive for
Hep C simply means that their immune system has
reacted to it and they have
an antibody coded for the virus.  It does not state
whether the person’s
liver has been damaged by the exposure.  However,
the “fitness” of their
liver needs to be determined because there is a
possibility that it could
have been significantly effected.  I will depict the
potential for potential
problem with a simple analogy: Direct treatment of a
Hep C positive person
without further determination of their liver’s
health is like playing
russian roulette where you have anywhere from 1-3
bullet(s) in a cylinder
that holds 6 statistically depending on the overall
population.  Hence there
is a distinct possibility that an OD on ibogaine can
occur and if the person
has background respiratory or heart problems then it
lead to very serious
consequences.  Also, lack of the ability to
metabolize ibogaine to
noribogaine may significantly deter the opiate
detoxifying as well as
serotonergic component of the treatment…Oh well,
just a thought!

From: Hattie <epoptica@freeuk.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: ibogaine and hep c
Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 11:50:54 +0100

Can anyone clarify for everyone what exactly the
dangers are with ibogaine
consumption by those with Hep C? People ask me all
the time and I have
never
been very clear. I know treatment providers who
treat people with Hep C,
and
I have done once with someone whose count was under
control and low.
But does anyone have any serious safety guidelines
on this.

Thanks

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From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Fwd: Re: [ibogaine] Re: ibogaine and hep c
Date: August 23, 2002 at 1:04:21 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Forward of one of the CYP2D6 msgs.

Carla B

— “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> wrote:
Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 14:12:57 -0400
From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: ibogaine and hep c

On [Wed, May 22, 2002 at 02:13:25PM +0100], [Andria
Efthimiou-Mordaunt] wrote:

| Jon
|
| Which country are you in?

John is Dr. Pablo, he lives in the country of the
mind, in a state of
insanity.  Which is to say, most of the time, 20
yards away from where I
am.  Or Miami even, to put it another way.

| You may be referring to Liver Function Test and
FBC (Full Blodd Counts) but
| as far as I’m aware these will not give you the
full mckoy on the state of
| ones liver. Hattie, don’t get confused. Send an
e-mail to Mat Dolan, who
| wrote the HCV Handbook (my potty buddy and he
really is my teacher on HCV)
| cos he has to be updated as a result of re-writing
his book each 2 yrs or so

Look…  Alla youz can beat nomenclature, details,
and theory, into the
dust, then sift through it sideways searching for
<whatever>.  But it’s
pretty simple:

Yes, to the best of my knowledge at this point in
time, it is not possible
to accurately and exactly test liver function
without a biopsy.  However,
this is going off on a tangent.  If you run the
standard, simple blood
tests which include a liver panel, and nothing comes
up really wacked,
then you are more or less — probably — okay.

This isn’t the be all, end all, of testing, because
it’s a really good
idea to test for the prescence of a gene (CYP2D6
[Cytochrome p450 2D6])
for the protein which metabolizes ibogaine.  There
is a certain percentage
of the population which does NOT have the wildtype
gene.

Ibogaine can be metabolized without it, usually the
answer is a much lower
dose.  However.  If someone has Hep C — in an
active/uncontrolled state,
lacks this gene (how you would go about testing for
it in other parts of
the world, I do not know…  I just know what
happens here.  It should not
be impossible.), you dose ’em with a “low” dose of
ibogaine to be safe …
the end result can still be a dead body, because the
ibogaine isn’t being
metabolized/metabolized fast enough, and then you
wind up with shit like
Q-T prolongation and torsades.

And if you wind up with these situations in an
environment where there
isn’t anyone present that knows how to prevent them
from dropping dead.
Presto, you gots a dead body.

In short, lots of super-bad THINGS can happen.

None of these are Great Secrets.  All this shit has
been published
already.

– – – – – – – – –

To summarize:  You need roughly half your liver
still going.  (presuming
this is the problem, and your heart is “okay” and
nothing else is really
wacked the fuck out.)

– – – – – – – – –

Now…  Here’s the great big grey area…

What’s “good enough” … and how do you define that.

Medicine isn’t very exact, there are an awful lot of
very healthy people
who drop dead for all sorts of reasons — other than
being shot, OD’ing,
or getting hit by a truck — and there are an equal
or greater number of
people who have a Fucking Towering Mountain of shit
wrong with them, who
really should have dropped dead decades ago, and
they keep right on
living.  <shrug>

To drop into the subjective: when I wanted to dose
with ibogaine, I lied
about every fucking thing imaginable, regarding what
I was or was not
taking, and the doses I was on, because I was afraid
nobody would even
attempt to detox me from all that shit (200mg
methadone + roughly 2
grams of heroin + 12mg xanax, on an average day, to
just get “normal”).

All my tests are within “normal” ranges, whether due
to karma, luck,
genetics, or simply because I’m still indestructible
and not old enough to
have suffered direct physical consequences from all
the stupid shit I’ve
done to myself.

However…  Were my tests NOT normal.  Would I have
shrugged, said, “oh
well, I can’t do this,” and moved on to another
possible treatment?  FUCK
NO.  Tried ’em all, none worked, this is what I
WANT/NEED.  I do not give
a fuck what your inclusion/exclusion criteria is,
for me this is my life,
I am on a kamikaze run, and if it kills me, who
gives a shit, it’s not
like I’m living now anyway; just my time to go.  Oh
well.

What I’m saying is; if my tests were in any way
abnormal, I would have
simply engaged in some creative art, printed up some
Just Super Fine
Perfect results, and if you wanted to receive those
results from a doctor
or a lab; well hey, no problem, I will access the
switch that their phones
are on, and for that entire afternoon or day, every
single call going into
or out of those offices, will go to ME instead.
You’re not gonna stop me,
I may be crazy, but I’m not stupid, I need this, I
don’t care what you
want or don’t want.

And, I’d posit there are a whole lot of people who
would do same, or
something similar.

This is called desperation.  <see also: drug
dependence>

To conclude this rambling in some cohesive manner: I
absolutely think
people who are in the “grey area” should have the
chance to get their
lives back.  However, there are a whole lot of
variables there to deal
with…  I would strongly suggest that SOMEONE who
knows what to do in the
event of a medical emergency, is present, when
you’re dosing anybody who
fits this criteria…  If they had a few pieces of
useful equipment
onhand, this really wouldn’t hurt either.

Because if they drop dead, oh well, their problems
are over, better luck
in your next life.  But yours have just begun.  You
now have a dead body,
and depending on what part of the world you’re in,
it’s quite possible you
will face murder or manslaughter charges — no
matter how good your
intentions were.

– – – – – – – – –

Having said all that, what would I personally do…
I would have at the
very least a basic emergency kit onhand.  I would
hope for the best, and I
wouldn’t touch anybody who gave me a really negative
vibe…  This may be
stupid, but I’m not dead, or in prison, and every
single time the alarms
went off in my head really loud, despite no other
evidence to support my
feelings…  I have been extremely fucking grateful
I listened, “hey
Patrick, it is TIME to bail, and get the fuck out of
this situation/place
‘cuz something really bad is right on the horizon,
and approaching very
rapidly.”

Beyond that, it’s very hard to say…  Is this
person all fucked up and
acting weird because they’re smoking crack, going
through withdrawal,
or because there’s something seriously wrong with
them…  Getting that
answer without medical testing borders on the
impossible.

Because, as I may have mentioned…  People who are
desperate, tend to lie
an awful lot.  Especially when they have very little
left to lose.

Patrick

__________________________________________________
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From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Ibogaine Death in Germany
Date: August 23, 2002 at 12:58:31 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Almost this exact conversation happened around 2
months ago, I looked through my ibogaine mailbox and
will forward two of the most relevent messages from
Patrick and John Pablo, who both work with Dr. Mash.
Are you there guys? Both of you have posted to the
mindvox list lately but haven’t said anything at all
in this convo!

Carla B

— Andria Efthimiou-Mordaunt
<AndriaEM@drugscope.org.uk> wrote:
Thanx for this Dana
Hattie also said it may have been to do with this
enzyme that some of us
simply do not have, that means there is a danger of
all sorts for some
people; who’s on the list now that knows that
biochemical deatail
Howard? Brett – anybody out there?

sadness to discover another treatment can kill us;
is anything safe 4 us?

Anyways

Love and hugs always

andria

—–Original Message—–
From: Dana Beal [mailto:cnw@calyx.net]
Sent: 19 August 2002 21:13
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine Death in Germany

A young woman tragically died during an informal
ibogaine session in Germany
last month (July 2002). The death occurred about one
and a half hours after
taking 500mg of ibogaine HCl for personal
development purposes. The cause of
death is not yet established. The woman, aged 35
years and weighing 63 kg,
had used the drug previously on one occasion without
problem. Her partner
has requested that I put out this basic
announcement. More details will be
posted once they become available.

Sorry to be the bearer of such bad tidings

Nick

Note that this was not a treatment for addiction, so
that attitude of the
participants may have been a bit casual. What I’ve
learned so far is that
she took it after traveling, without resting up
first, so that she may have
been dehydrated without realizing it. Mash found
that virtually all
arythmias could be eliminated by just making sure
subjects are
well-hydrated.

She had had open-heart surgery in the past. A year
ago, a doctor assured her
her heart was alright, without knowing what she
wanted the information for.

It’s also worth noting that another person taking
the same batch of HCl for
oxycontin addiction went “into arrest” on  only 600
milligrams–just 100
more than this person–and was brought out of it
only because a nurse was
present who knew CPR. It turned out this person had
an undisclosed history
of seizures. So it could turn out to be
batch-related.

I talked to Hattie yesterday, and she has suspended
treatments because it
turned out 5 people lied about their positive
hepatitis C status because
they knew she wouldn’t treat them if they told her
the truth. Drug abusers
lie. On the other hand, I personally believe
ibogaine use should be
restricted to active addicts because the
risk/benefit situation is much more
defensible if something goes wrong, as in this case.
Bottom line–you want
something for self-development, do acid.

The person who just died also had a fascination with
death and the
afterlife, so we may have a “death’s door” situation
here–where she went
through the door and didn’t feel like coming back.
Mash was making people
sign an contract, agreeing to come back. But try
telling that to NIDA. As I
understand it, CPR was tried, she almost came back,
and then he lost her.

Nic, tell him I just lost all my email, so I’d like
him to send those posts
again where she talks about this. I didn’t really
get a chance to read them.
The Paris forum is looking good, and we may be able
to put something
together in Italy. Dr Ken says the only spin you can
put on this is that
desparate people are going to do Ibogaine, so it has
to be put under the
control of physicians so that fatalities can be
minimized. Also, this is
making the Indra look a little safer, albeit very
nauseating.

Dana/cnw

__________________________________________________
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From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Ibogaine Death in Germany
Date: August 23, 2002 at 10:42:22 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sorry if this is a 2nd post – “send” is screwing up

You are referring to CYP2D6 (cytochrome P-4502D6)
enzyme that is the main channel to metabolize ibogaine
into nor-ibogaine. About 7% of people are missing this
enzyme. It is the same enzyme that makes codeine turn
into morphine in the body – for some people codeine
doesn’t work well because of this – on the other hand
it will increase ibogaine blood levels if you don’t
have it (by not converting ibogaine to nor-ibogaine
fast enough).

So, yeah, it could have something to do with something
but I think we need to hear the medical examiners
report before coming to any conclusions. Another drug
could also have been in the blood that interfered with
this enzyme and increase ibogaine levels in blood – by
not being able to clear it/metabolize it into
nor-ibogaine – paroxetine (paxil), followed by
fluoxetine (prozac) are 2 inhibitors of CYP2D6 (so one
source says… another source said no though anything
that uses CYP2D6 it may HOG the enzyme).

It is an area of interest one of these days I will
spend some time to understand it better. With a little
knowledge one gets to wondering what interferes with
ibogaine metabolism and what may enhance it. For
instance a common drug combination (of abuse) is
codeine and gluthethimide called “HITS”. GLUTHETHIMIDE
(a sleeping agent)increases the ability of CYP26D to
make morphine out of codeine in the body, it may do
the same for ibogaine to nor-ibogaine, might even
lower the “hallucinogenic” side effects – just a
thought.

I don’t store this info in my head or have a real good
understanding of it, so had to look it up, take it for
what it is worth (and check for yourself). I only know
it is “there”.

Brett

— Andria Efthimiou-Mordaunt
<AndriaEM@drugscope.org.uk> wrote:
Thanx for this Dana
Hattie also said it may have been to do with this
enzyme that some of us
simply do not have, that means there is a danger of
all sorts for some
people; who’s on the list now that knows that
biochemical deatail
Howard? Brett – anybody out there?

sadness to discover another treatment can kill us;
is anything safe 4 us?

Anyways

Love and hugs always

andria

—–Original Message—–
From: Dana Beal [mailto:cnw@calyx.net]
Sent: 19 August 2002 21:13
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine Death in Germany

A young woman tragically died during an informal
ibogaine session in Germany
last month (July 2002). The death occurred about one
and a half hours after
taking 500mg of ibogaine HCl for personal
development purposes. The cause of
death is not yet established. The woman, aged 35
years and weighing 63 kg,
had used the drug previously on one occasion without
problem. Her partner
has requested that I put out this basic
announcement. More details will be
posted once they become available.

Sorry to be the bearer of such bad tidings

Nick

Note that this was not a treatment for addiction, so
that attitude of the
participants may have been a bit casual. What I’ve
learned so far is that
she took it after traveling, without resting up
first, so that she may have
been dehydrated without realizing it. Mash found
that virtually all
arythmias could be eliminated by just making sure
subjects are
well-hydrated.

She had had open-heart surgery in the past. A year
ago, a doctor assured her
her heart was alright, without knowing what she
wanted the information for.

It’s also worth noting that another person taking
the same batch of HCl for
oxycontin addiction went “into arrest” on  only 600
milligrams–just 100
more than this person–and was brought out of it
only because a nurse was
present who knew CPR. It turned out this person had
an undisclosed history
of seizures. So it could turn out to be
batch-related.

I talked to Hattie yesterday, and she has suspended
treatments because it
turned out 5 people lied about their positive
hepatitis C status because
they knew she wouldn’t treat them if they told her
the truth. Drug abusers
lie. On the other hand, I personally believe
ibogaine use should be
restricted to active addicts because the
risk/benefit situation is much more
defensible if something goes wrong, as in this case.
Bottom line–you want
something for self-development, do acid.

The person who just died also had a fascination with
death and the
afterlife, so we may have a “death’s door” situation
here–where she went
through the door and didn’t feel like coming back.
Mash was making people
sign an contract, agreeing to come back. But try
telling that to NIDA. As I
understand it, CPR was tried, she almost came back,
and then he lost her.

Nic, tell him I just lost all my email, so I’d like
him to send those posts
again where she talks about this. I didn’t really
get a chance to read them.
The Paris forum is looking good, and we may be able
to put something
together in Italy. Dr Ken says the only spin you can
put on this is that
desparate people are going to do Ibogaine, so it has
to be put under the
control of physicians so that fatalities can be
minimized. Also, this is
making the Indra look a little safer, albeit very
nauseating.

Dana/cnw

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

From: Andria Efthimiou-Mordaunt <AndriaEM@drugscope.org.uk>
Subject: RE: Re: [ibogaine] Kicking dope with ibogaine
Date: August 23, 2002 at 9:23:32 AM EDT
To: “‘ibogaine@mindvox.com'” <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Curtis

U r a dude; I like your open attitude, and it PROMOTES unity

Are u married? Just kidding, but if u ever come to London, drop in for a
coffee and discussion about rainbow coalition of all ex/current addict users

Love andria

—–Original Message—–
From: Curtis Hersch [mailto:crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com]
Sent: 19 August 2002 02:19
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] Kicking dope with ibogaine

You should surely do this. And keep it real. Do not fill it up
with all that recovery rap garbage. I like Preston’s description
of Mindvox the best from all the things I have read so far as he
has it on Drugwar “A site dedicated to ibogaine, psychedelics,
religious and creative aspects to drugs and users. Brilliant
website, full of shining light the prohibitionists are most afraid
of: smart people who like themselves and are creative and alright
despite their drug use.”

Right on. How about collecting what you write and making it known
that maybe there are not a lot of us, but right on this list there
are many who would never stay sober using the 12 steps yet it is
happening. That truth is never let out of there, with Mindvox you
have huge cred because you have this thing which is just being hit
like crazy. So who cares what the medical people accept or don’t,
you already do this with ibogaine and link everything but even
with Mindvox linking it I don’t think any of those sites are past
the 100,000 level and most are around 200,000 to 300,000, most of
the other ibogaine sites besides yours, .org, .co.uk are not even
in the top 1 million, nobody is reading any of them. Put some
truth about recovery and what it all means online.

There is a great lack of truth and options for people. I remember
that so well when people would tell me if I don’t do the steps and
work a program I will die. And that’s the exact quote man, I will
die or end up in prison. It’s like thanks for the nice wishes bro,
I do not think like that or want to be around people who tell me
these things. Very negative trip, I do not like the 12 steps. They
are good as a option but they are sure not the only way of doing
things.

Peace out,
Curtis

On Sat, 17 Aug 2002 Kerry Dawson wrote :

Yes they published my letter, which was a surprise
since it was personal email to the publisher.

I still would not change anything I said.

I am in the midst of my first vacation in nearly 3
years and wish all of you the very best.

Patrick, keep doing what you’re doing! Whatever
Mindvox is exactly, you’re message is going out there
loud and clear and you have one hell of an audience
tuning in. I just looked at that site ranking system
mentioned below.

http://www.alexa.com/data/details?q=mindvox&p=DestSearch_W_t_40_M3&mode=&ur
l=http://www.mindvox.com/

Mindvox is at: 16,743

Compare the access statistics for:

AA: 52,464
http://www.alexa.com/data/details?amzn_id=&url=alcoholics-anonymous.org

NA: 84,122
http://www.alexa.com/data/details?q=narcotics%20anonymous&p=DestSearch_W_t_
40_M1&mode=&url=http://www.na.org/

DrcNET: 157,178
http://www.alexa.com/data/details?q=drcnet&p=DestSearch_W_t_40_M1&mode=&url
=http://www.drcnet.org/

This is remarkable to put it mildly. I’m starting to
feel something I haven’t felt in a long time, the word
I’m looking for here is: HOPE!

And Karina, hang in there! At the risk of being
shouted down by half this list, if you don’t know how
to remain sober then admitting that is the first step.
You might want to at least give some meetings a try.
What do you have to lose? In the worst case it’ll be a
little bit of time where you’re not taking whatever
pills you are doing. You did not specify.

And Patrick, good advice from the young lady. You have
one hell of an audience here. You may want to put
together some of what you’ve already written and make
it accessible from Mindvox. I don’t see the point in
publishing bits and pieces in different online
publications, when what you have here outranks all of
them. It would be a benefit if you started an
addiction section somewhere within your site!

Give it some thought. I know your image is being an
unrepentent badass who gives the finger to addiction
treatment. More power to you, extend the rest of your
hand and share more of what you have. You have no idea
how many people want some of it.

Have a great summer folks

Kerry Dawson, AIS, CAP, MAC

— Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com> wrote:

It finally came out 2 months late!

Howard I wouldn’t take it so seriously I think they
mangle everything. Patrick is in every issue, he
finished his addiction series I think this is the
last
in the series with the last one being that one with
Dave Hunter. They’ve also blown up the Mindvox logo
to
full page size and published a lot of letters 🙂

http://herointimes.com/aug02/intervent.html

http://herointimes.com/aug02/letters.html
http://herointimes.com/aug02/intervent3.html

Which reminds me to say one more time what I’ve
already said 5 times at least, Patrick why don’t you
take all those articles, you are at #17 or
something,
some of them are you giving addiction treatment the
finger, I understand you like to do that 🙂 But
beside the rants you have at least 12 or 14 which
are
awesome! And all about ibogaine and addiction, so
get
rid of their awful formatting and put them up
mindvox
or any ibogaine site. They’re great and I still
don’t
understand why you don’t open up a ibogaine section
on
the outside of the Mindvox site. Why write for
heroin
times when the mindvox hit rate is so much higher?

Mindvox is at 20,000 Heroin Times is at 160,000

http://www.alexa.com/data/details?q=mindvox&p=DestSearch_W_t_40_M3&mode=&ur
l=http://www.mindvox.com/

http://www.alexa.com/data/details?q=mindvox&p=DestSearch_W_t_40_M3&mode=&ur
l=http://www.herointimes.com

Come on, do it. I know you’re doing all these other
things but if you can find the time to keep adding
and
I’ll say art, not rants 😉 to the outside of the
site, you can put a series of articles which I bet
are
all sitting in the same directory anyway online. It
would take you 5 minutes.

Carla B

— HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:
I received an email from herointimes.com
announcing
their latest edition.  I
found an article announced on the cover titled,
Kicking Dope with Ibogaine.
It really sounded familiar.  Well, it should have
as
when I opened it I found
my name as author.  I wrote the article in March
of
2000 and was somewhat
disappointed that the layout was cut and pasted
here
and there incorrectly
and out of order making it difficult to comprehend
and some of the treatment
information of course was dated.  I was actually
expecting some new article
by Patrick as he has been writing for
herointimes.com on the subject.

__________________________________________________
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From: Andria Efthimiou-Mordaunt <AndriaEM@drugscope.org.uk>
Subject: RE: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine tripping
Date: August 23, 2002 at 9:20:14 AM EDT
To: “‘ibogaine@mindvox.com'” <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Curtis

Thanx for this beautiful and uplifting message.

LSD is not compulsory!

This is often a mantra I have when I feel pressure from ANYWHERE; since I
have a tendency to be easily pushed into self-destructive things – it works
well as a mantra. Besides, I’m personally of the opinion that a good few
years completely sobre is the best thing given the decade or more of abuse.
Certainly my 5 yrs unbroken abstinence was one of the most stable periods of
my life, where I achieved more, loved more and OF COURSE! played more. I
think I learnt to 10-pin bowl during that time; it was wild!

Just another story from London

Solidarity & Strength

Andria

—–Original Message—–
From: Curtis Hersch [mailto:crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com]
Sent: 19 August 2002 01:52
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine tripping

Hey bro thanks for the thoughtful reply. I did not have a habit
when I dosed I have been clean of heroin for about 2 years now
maybe a little longer if you count strictly heroin and not the odd
pill here and there when someone have some good d 4’s I could not
pass up.

I’ve read so many different experiences happening here but for me
when I did it my intent was like healing or wanting to just be in
a better place. I didn’t have any huge expectation and thought
I’ll trip. I did not have a real bad trip I mean I went to some
darkness and cried afterwards and had some upheavels but what it
really feels like is just this total cleansing.

Reading some of what’s on here I probably did not need to dose at
the range I did to just have a spiritual kick off from it, but
right now it’s strange. It is like a total cleansing. I feel good!
I’ve felt not that good for so long I think I forgot what it’s
like. I’m not on cloud 9 or anything but I’m happy man. Life feels
good. It’s hard to explain but little things I always took for
granted I’m happy for and it’s good to wake up in the morning.

I do not think I am ready to personally become a psychedelic
gateway to different planes like Patrick and I’m not really
fiending for acid like karina but let me say that I have lost a
lot of my fear and when acid comes into my life I won’t be hiding
from it, because I’ve been so afraid to trip for a long time and
so much of what I thought about all the time was just not doing
heroin.

I don’t feel that way anymore. I feel good!

Peace out,
Curtis

On Thu, 15 Aug 2002 Nick Sandberg wrote :

Hi Curtis,

Mostly I figure ibogaine unloads you of what’s going on beneath
the surface.
If there’s big backlog of stuff waiting to be emptied out, like
the recycle
bin, then it tries to dump the lot during the session. This is
one reason
why some people trip like crazy and others not so much. I’d get a
lot of
emotional stuff for hours then feel really clean for days
afterward, like
all the things in the way of me being who I wanted to be were
gone.

all the best

Nick

“Not all who wander are lost” Right on man, right on! And so
true.

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From: Andria Efthimiou-Mordaunt <AndriaEM@drugscope.org.uk>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Ibogaine Death in Germany
Date: August 23, 2002 at 8:58:32 AM EDT
To: “‘ibogaine@mindvox.com'” <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanx for this Dana
Hattie also said it may have been to do with this enzyme that some of us simply do not have, that means there is a danger of all sorts for some people; who’s on the list now that knows that biochemical deatail
Howard? Brett – anybody out there?

sadness to discover another treatment can kill us; is anything safe 4 us?

Anyways

Love and hugs always

andria
—–Original Message—–
From: Dana Beal [mailto:cnw@calyx.net]
Sent: 19 August 2002 21:13
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine Death in Germany

A young woman tragically died during an informal ibogaine session in Germany last month (July 2002). The death occurred about one and a half hours after taking 500mg of ibogaine HCl for personal development purposes. The cause of death is not yet established. The woman, aged 35 years and weighing 63 kg, had used the drug previously on one occasion without problem. Her partner has requested that I put out this basic announcement. More details will be posted once they become available.

Sorry to be the bearer of such bad tidings

Nick

Note that this was not a treatment for addiction, so that attitude of the participants may have been a bit casual. What I’ve learned so far is that she took it after traveling, without resting up first, so that she may have been dehydrated without realizing it. Mash found that virtually all arythmias could be eliminated by just making sure subjects are well-hydrated.

She had had open-heart surgery in the past. A year ago, a doctor assured her her heart was alright, without knowing what she wanted the information for.

It’s also worth noting that another person taking the same batch of HCl for oxycontin addiction went “into arrest” on  only 600 milligrams–just 100 more than this person–and was brought out of it only because a nurse was present who knew CPR. It turned out this person had an undisclosed history of seizures. So it could turn out to be batch-related.

I talked to Hattie yesterday, and she has suspended treatments because it turned out 5 people lied about their positive hepatitis C status because they knew she wouldn’t treat them if they told her the truth. Drug abusers lie. On the other hand, I personally believe ibogaine use should be restricted to active addicts because the risk/benefit situation is much more defensible if something goes wrong, as in this case. Bottom line–you want something for self-development, do acid.

The person who just died also had a fascination with death and the afterlife, so we may have a “death’s door” situation here–where she went through the door and didn’t feel like coming back. Mash was making people sign an contract, agreeing to come back. But try telling that to NIDA. As I understand it, CPR was tried, she almost came back, and then he lost her.

Nic, tell him I just lost all my email, so I’d like him to send those posts again where she talks about this. I didn’t really get a chance to read them. The Paris forum is looking good, and we may be able to put something together in Italy. Dr Ken says the only spin you can put on this is that desparate people are going to do Ibogaine, so it has to be put under the control of physicians so that fatalities can be minimized. Also, this is making the Indra look a little safer, albeit very nauseating.

Dana/cnw

From: “Alison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] For Karina with love we care
Date: August 23, 2002 at 5:52:27 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Best wishes and love Karina.  It does get better and your doing really well so far.  Hang in there and keep going.  I suppose most of us have been back and forwards lots and its not easy but it feels good when you get there.     From Allison
—–Original Message—–
From: Andria Efthimiou-Mordaunt <AndriaEM@drugscope.org.uk>
To: ‘ibogaine@mindvox.com’ <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Date: Friday, 23 August 2002 05:10
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] For Karina with love we care

Hey Karina

And less of the self-flagellation honey! Know how many times I went through this roundabout, not to mention many thousands of other addict drug users.

You are doing fine; you are staying on course with your decision to stop and that’s what you need to focus on, NOT beating up on yourself

Which Rehab will you be going into? Is it Minesssotta or something else?

Be kind to U

Love and solidarity

Andria
—–Original Message—–
From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com [mailto:Mzzthangg13@aol.com]
Sent: 22 August 2002 00:01
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] For Karina with love we care

hi i am still off methadone but i am a  big fuck up i got strubg out on vicodin and codine tomorrow i am going to rehab…..they will detox me and them tyry to help me stay off drugs……i asked my husband if he wanted to divorce me cause i am a no good addict he said no he loved me very much and will stick it out     that made me happy……i just do not know what my problem is…..i know better and still do drugs……1st they will detox me then try and help me find a way to stay off drugs……….i feel so bad for my husband it’s like i cannot help myself…..i am 41 and have been on drugs my whole life except in jail…….i don’t know how to stay clean but the rehab said they will help me…….i will write again when i am home……

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] For Karina with love we care
Date: August 22, 2002 at 5:51:29 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Just to let you know Karina-
At one of the very last detox/treatment facilities I was at, Staten Island University, one afternoon they had someone come in and talk to us about Harm Reduction. He was the most radical treatment-minded person I ever met in a treatment place. He said to us all in the facility, “If I can get my clients/patients to smoke pot instead of shooting up, that’s a success.” Something to think about, and you don’t even necessarily have to smoke. You can cook it or make tea. I know that the usual thing one hears in treatment is complete abstinence, but reducing your current hurt is the first and foremost thing in my mind at least. Pot may, (may is key here, it is not assured) help you in a lot of ways.
Really, I’m thinking positively in your direction Karina, good strong thoughts your way. There’s also methadone, which while you will hear horrid things about it from many people, (even me sometimes), and you may have even experienced some of them, it is legal, and will get your out from under prohibitionist cops while keep withdrawals at bay. Then you can stabilize and wait until you KNOW you are ready to quit “getting high” and do it in a much more friendly situation, IF you use the methadone to get where you want to be, and not to simply have a legal, cheap high, (which sucks anyway, to me at least, that methadone high). The fact you have a loving husband just may be your saving grace, but you have to make the definite decision that you REALLY WANT TO STOP GETTING STRAIGHT, for YOU, not for anyone else. Having him there will help immensely, but he can’t make you quit, no one and nothing can but you.
Peace, respect, and again, positive thinking your way,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Carla Barnes
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 3:49 PM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] For Karina with love we care

Karina, hang in there! You remind me of me not so long
ago. Kerry mentioned that admitting you don’t know how
to stay sober is the first step, so before you end up
with another habit give some kind of recovery a try. I
don’t think anyone here has ever said to do nothing. I
also know alot of the people give the impression that
they do whatever they want, but Patrick, Dave,
Preston, so many of the really talented and crazy 😉
people on this list are more the exception then the
norm. And I think even all of them tried almost
everything to find out it didn’t work for them and
then did their own things. But all of them do
something.

Most people need some kind of help in staying sober!
If it was easy then the success rate wouldn’t be so
incredibly low. I think the long term rate is
something like 2% stay completely clean and maybe 5%
make it through after relapsing a few times. This
isn’t with ibogaine, these were recovery statistics I
read talking about in general. It concluded that the
success rate of staying off hard drugs is lower then
the cure rate for terminal cancer. It’s not easy! But
it is possible!

Carla B

— Andria Efthimiou-Mordaunt
<AndriaEM@drugscope.org.uk> wrote:
> Hey Karina
>
> And less of the self-flagellation honey! Know how
> many times I went through
> this roundabout, not to mention many thousands of
> other addict drug users.
>
> You are doing fine; you are staying on course with
> your decision to stop and
> that’s what you need to focus on, NOT beating up on
> yourself
>
> Which Rehab will you be going into? Is it
> Minesssotta or something else?
>
> Be kind to U
>
> Love and solidarity
>
> Andria
>
> —–Original Message—–
> From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
> [mailto:Mzzthangg13@aol.com]
> Sent: 22 August 2002 00:01
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Subject: Re: [ibogaine] For Karina with love we care
>
>
> hi i am still off methadone but i am a  big fuck up
> i got strubg out on
> vicodin and codine tomorrow i am going to
> rehab…..they will detox me and
> them tyry to help me stay off drugs……i asked my
> husband if he wanted to
> divorce me cause i am a no good addict he said no he
> loved me very much and
> will stick it out     that made me happy……i just
> do not know what my
> problem is…..i know better and still do
> drugs……1st they will detox me
> then try and help me find a way to stay off
> drugs……….i feel so bad for
> my husband it’s like i cannot help myself…..i am
> 41 and have been on drugs
> my whole life except in jail…….i don’t know how
> to stay clean but the
> rehab said they will help me…….i will write
> again when i am home……
>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs – Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] For Karina with love we care
Date: August 22, 2002 at 3:49:12 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Karina, hang in there! You remind me of me not so long
ago. Kerry mentioned that admitting you don’t know how
to stay sober is the first step, so before you end up
with another habit give some kind of recovery a try. I
don’t think anyone here has ever said to do nothing. I
also know alot of the people give the impression that
they do whatever they want, but Patrick, Dave,
Preston, so many of the really talented and crazy 😉
people on this list are more the exception then the
norm. And I think even all of them tried almost
everything to find out it didn’t work for them and
then did their own things. But all of them do
something.

Most people need some kind of help in staying sober!
If it was easy then the success rate wouldn’t be so
incredibly low. I think the long term rate is
something like 2% stay completely clean and maybe 5%
make it through after relapsing a few times. This
isn’t with ibogaine, these were recovery statistics I
read talking about in general. It concluded that the
success rate of staying off hard drugs is lower then
the cure rate for terminal cancer. It’s not easy! But
it is possible!

Carla B

— Andria Efthimiou-Mordaunt
<AndriaEM@drugscope.org.uk> wrote:
Hey Karina

And less of the self-flagellation honey! Know how
many times I went through
this roundabout, not to mention many thousands of
other addict drug users.

You are doing fine; you are staying on course with
your decision to stop and
that’s what you need to focus on, NOT beating up on
yourself

Which Rehab will you be going into? Is it
Minesssotta or something else?

Be kind to U

Love and solidarity

Andria

—–Original Message—–
From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
[mailto:Mzzthangg13@aol.com]
Sent: 22 August 2002 00:01
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] For Karina with love we care

hi i am still off methadone but i am a  big fuck up
i got strubg out on
vicodin and codine tomorrow i am going to
rehab…..they will detox me and
them tyry to help me stay off drugs……i asked my
husband if he wanted to
divorce me cause i am a no good addict he said no he
loved me very much and
will stick it out     that made me happy……i just
do not know what my
problem is…..i know better and still do
drugs……1st they will detox me
then try and help me find a way to stay off
drugs……….i feel so bad for
my husband it’s like i cannot help myself…..i am
41 and have been on drugs
my whole life except in jail…….i don’t know how
to stay clean but the
rehab said they will help me…….i will write
again when i am home……

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs – Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com

From: Andria Efthimiou-Mordaunt <AndriaEM@drugscope.org.uk>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] For Karina with love we care
Date: August 22, 2002 at 1:14:05 PM EDT
To: “‘ibogaine@mindvox.com'” <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Karina

And less of the self-flagellation honey! Know how many times I went through this roundabout, not to mention many thousands of other addict drug users.

You are doing fine; you are staying on course with your decision to stop and that’s what you need to focus on, NOT beating up on yourself

Which Rehab will you be going into? Is it Minesssotta or something else?

Be kind to U

Love and solidarity

Andria
—–Original Message—–
From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com [mailto:Mzzthangg13@aol.com]
Sent: 22 August 2002 00:01
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] For Karina with love we care

hi i am still off methadone but i am a  big fuck up i got strubg out on vicodin and codine tomorrow i am going to rehab…..they will detox me and them tyry to help me stay off drugs……i asked my husband if he wanted to divorce me cause i am a no good addict he said no he loved me very much and will stick it out     that made me happy……i just do not know what my problem is…..i know better and still do drugs……1st they will detox me then try and help me find a way to stay off drugs……….i feel so bad for my husband it’s like i cannot help myself…..i am 41 and have been on drugs my whole life except in jail…….i don’t know how to stay clean but the rehab said they will help me…….i will write again when i am home……

From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] For Karina with love we care
Date: August 21, 2002 at 7:00:59 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hi i am still off methadone but i am a  big fuck up i got strubg out on vicodin and codine tomorrow i am going to rehab…..they will detox me and them tyry to help me stay off drugs……i asked my husband if he wanted to divorce me cause i am a no good addict he said no he loved me very much and will stick it out     that made me happy……i just do not know what my problem is…..i know better and still do drugs……1st they will detox me then try and help me find a way to stay off drugs……….i feel so bad for my husband it’s like i cannot help myself…..i am 41 and have been on drugs my whole life except in jail…….i don’t know how to stay clean but the rehab said they will help me…….i will write again when i am home……

From: vector6@space.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Fwd: [drugwar] Fw: LP RELEASE: Defeat of Rep. Bob Barr
Date: August 21, 2002 at 6:51:07 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com, vox@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Whoever Bob Barr is, fuck him.

.:vector:.

——- Start of forwarded message ——-

From: “Joshua Tinnin” <krinklyfig@myrealbox.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 14:05:14 -0700
Subject: [drugwar] Fw: LP RELEASE: Defeat of Rep. Bob
Barr
To: “Drugwar” <drugwar@mindvox.com>

—– Original Message —–
From: &quot;Libertarian Party Announcements&quot;
&lt;owner-announce@lp.org&gt;

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—–

===============================
NEWS FROM THE LIBERTARIAN PARTY
2600 Virginia Avenue, NW, Suite 100
Washington DC 20037
World Wide Web: <a
href=”http://mail.space.com//jump/http://www.LP.org”>http://www.LP.org</a>
===============================
For release: August 21, 2002
===============================
For additional information:
George Getz, Press Secretary
Phone: (202) 333-0008 Ext. 222
E-Mail: pressreleases@hq.LP.org
===============================

LP’s medical marijuana ads play role
in defeat of U.S. Rep. Bob Barr

WASHINGTON, DC — The &quot;worst drug warrior in
Congress&quot;
has lost his
seat, and the Libertarian Party appears to have played
a small role in
making it happen.

U.S. Rep. Bob Barr, a four-term incumbent, lost the
Republican primary
in Georgia’s 7th District on Tuesday night to fellow
Republican John
Linder, 67 percent to 33 percent.

Over the past two weeks, Barr’s Libertarian opponent,
Carole Ann Rand,
flooded Georgia’s 7th District with more than 4,000 TV
spots. The ads
feature a multiple sclerosis victim who lashes out
against the
Congressman for his crusade against medical marijuana.

&quot;Barr’s defeat is a victory for every American who
believes that
doctors and patients – rather than politicians – should
be making
medical decisions,&quot; said Rand. &quot;Like Babe
Ruth pointing
to a spot in
the bleachers before he hit that home run, we pointed
out our target
and knocked him right out of Congress.&quot;

The party’s political director, Ron Crickenberger,
acknowledged that
many factors contributed to Barr’s defeat.

&quot;Actually, it’s impossible to gauge the precise
effect
that this or
any other ad had on the outcome,&quot; he said.
&quot;Nevertheless, there are a
number of reasons to believe that our ad had an impact.

&quot;For one thing, our ad was virtually the only
issue-based TV spot in
the campaign, so it became a lightning rod for
publicity. Both Barr and
Linder ran personality-based, feel-good ads. Linder’s
main ad simply
described how he met his wife, which was designed to
leave voters with
a warm, fuzzy feeling. And Barr’s TV spot came to be
called the ‘Barr
is gooder’ ad. It portrayed a good ‘ol boy saying,
‘Linder is good. But
I’m going to vote for Barr, because he’s gooder.’

&quot;That left us a huge opportunity to inject our
issue
into the public
debate – and we did.&quot;

For another thing, media interest was piqued by the
dramatic ads,
Crickenberger said.

&quot;Political reporters for every major paper in the
district, including
the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, wrote about the ad’s
expected
impact,&quot; he said. &quot;In addition, local talk
radio hosts
turned it into
a topic for discussion, and Atlanta-based, syndicated
radio host Neal
Boortz really beat Barr up over the medical marijuana
issue.

&quot;So while Barr’s loss was attributable to many
factors,
I believe
these ads put another nail into his political
coffin.&quot;

The 30-second ad opens with a shot of multiple
sclerosis sufferer
Cheryl Miller lying on a stretcher as an announcer
asks: &quot;Why does Bob
Barr want this woman in jail?&quot; Miller introduces
herself as a medical
marijuana user and says, &quot;Bob Barr thinks I should
be
in jail for
using my medicine. Why would you do that to me,
Bob?&quot;

The ad concludes: &quot;When the Drug War turns on our
own
sick and dying,
it’s gone too far — and so has Bob Barr.&quot;

The 30-second ads ran in Barr’s district on two
broadcast networks –
Fox and NBC – as well as on CNN, TNT, Comedy Central,
MS/NBC, and
dozens of other cable networks.

Produced by the national Libertarian Party, the ads are
part of its
goal of defeating the worst drug warriors in Congress,
whether
Republican or Democrat. Other targets for defeat
include U.S. Rep.
Henry Bonilla, R-TX; Sen. Max Cleland, D-GA; Senator
Tim Hutchison, R-
AR; and Senator Max Baucus, D-MT.

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—–
Version: 2.6.2

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ZP1H1vQqhMPp3yWELPnef00HS0jZ8QP2pTD1E/H8Wlt6wDKooUEeK0bT3ngkvepb
QZ04Mg4DxsI=
=SdKI
—–END PGP SIGNATURE—–

———————————————————————–
The Libertarian Party
<a
href=”http://mail.space.com//jump/http://www.lp.org”>http://www.lp.org</a>/
2600 Virginia Ave. NW, Suite 100
voice: 202-333-0008
Washington DC 20037
fax: 202-333-0072
———————————————————————–
For subscription changes, please use the WWW form at:
<a
href=”http://mail.space.com//jump/http://www.lp.org/action/email.html”>http://www.lp.org/action/email.html</a>

&lt;]=———————————————————————–=[&gt;
[ Moderated by: Preston Peet | <a
href=”http://mail.space.com//jump/http://www.drugwar.com”>http://www.drugwar.com</a>
| Andria E-Mordaunt ]
|          -=/[ To Subscribe:
drugwar-subscribe@mindvox.com ]/=-          |
|             To Unsubscribe:
drugwar-unsubscribe@mindvox.com             |
[   DrugWar List in Digest Format:
drugwar-digest-subscribe@mindvox.com   ]
&lt;]=———————————————————————–=[&gt;

——- End of forwarded message ——-

___________________________________________________________________
Join the Space Program: Get FREE E-mail at http://www.space.com.

From: Nicholas Labus <goosebumpz2002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] For Karina with love we care
Date: August 21, 2002 at 12:55:24 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— hey girl i have the same problem with my lithium prescribed by
my doctor and also prozac.especially in A.A. they like to bring up
that i should consider restating my answer to: are you clean?well
you have to remember that in 12 step programs its important tto not
take other peoples inventorys and also humans always like to
differentiate themselves from one another like imbetter than,im
worse than, im more than ,im less than well we are all equal and we
are all beutiful and anyone who tells you different are probably not
sayin it out of anger or bitterness but out of there own personal
hang ups well i got to go but take care girl treat your body good
you only get one! by sincerely goosebumpz2002@yahoo.com wel
la
Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com> wrote:
Alison, you are coming from another month 😉

Judith please think about maybe writing more then
disconnected one line pithy sayings? I think preston
is the one who said they add about as much to the
conversation as farts but that is all you ever post to
here or drugwar. If you have something to say please
try to say it or why bother?

Karina wait! Before taking all this advice to go to
meetings which might help or being put down by your
husband. What kind of pills did you mean? If you don’t
mean you’ve started to take pain killers or something
and are on whatever the doctor prescribed for you then
don’t let anyone put you down because of that. I have
had so many situations where I stopped heroin and then
go to treatment try to follow through it all and end
up with the cult of fanatics telling me I’m not clean,
or have people get all self righteous telling me what
I should be doing.

That is so much more someone else’s power trip then
anything to do with your well being!

Wow there are a lot of people here suddenly who are
all getting ibogaine and dosing themselves or planning
to. Is there some sudden explosion or new supply or
something?

Carla B

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs – Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs – Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] For Karina
Date: August 21, 2002 at 1:00:11 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Alison, you are coming from another month 😉

Judith please think about maybe writing more then
disconnected one line pithy sayings? I think preston
is the one who said they add about as much to the
conversation as farts but that is all you ever post to
here or drugwar. If you have something to say please
try to say it or why bother?

Karina wait! Before taking all this advice to go to
meetings which might help or being put down by your
husband. What kind of pills did you mean? If you don’t
mean you’ve started to take pain killers or something
and are on whatever the doctor prescribed for you then
don’t let anyone put you down because of that. I have
had so many situations where I stopped heroin and then
go to treatment try to follow through it all and end
up with the cult of fanatics telling me I’m not clean,
or have people get all self righteous telling me what
I should be doing.

That is so much more someone else’s power trip then
anything to do with your well being!

Wow there are a lot of people here suddenly who are
all getting ibogaine and dosing themselves or planning
to. Is there some sudden explosion or new supply or
something?

Carla B

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs – Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com

From: Nicholas Labus <goosebumpz2002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Karina and methadeone kicking
Date: August 20, 2002 at 11:23:20 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

thank you may god bless your sole child
— Joatammmo23@aol.com wrote:
I think that you should learn to spell probably…..prolly ha ha

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs – Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com

From: Joatammmo23@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Karina and methadeone kicking
Date: August 20, 2002 at 6:04:25 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I think that you should learn to spell probably…..prolly ha ha

From: Dana Beal <cnw@calyx.net>
Subject: [ibogaine] remember– methadone deaths are routine
Date: August 19, 2002 at 5:44:14 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Pubdate: Tue, 13 Aug 2002
Source: Mobile Register (AL)
Webpage:
http://www.al.com/news/mobileregister/index.ssf?/xml/story.ssf/html_standard
.xsl?/base/news/102923017262940.xml
Copyright: 2002 Mobile Register.
Contact: fcoleman@mobileregister.com
Website: http://www.al.com/mobileregister/today/
Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/269
Author: William Rabb

METHANDONE QUESTIONS

Richard Mitchell Shrum, a 24-year-old University of Montevallo student,
struggled for years with emotional problems and drug addiction, relatives
say. But last fall, he moved in with his mother and grandmother in Grand Bay
to seek treatment at a methadone clinic.

He was going, he said, to kick his painkiller habit once and for all.

Three days after starting the treatments, Shrum came home, went to bed and
never woke up. He died from what an autopsy report termed “methadone
intoxication.”

URL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v02.n1500.a03.html
Webpage:
http://www.al.com/news/mobileregister/index.ssf?/xml/story.ssf/html_standard.xsl?/base/news/102923017262940.xml

——————————

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] Kicking dope with ibogaine
Date: August 19, 2002 at 4:03:17 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Mon, Aug 19, 2002 at 12:33:30PM -0700], [ascending@hushmail.com] wrote:

| What I agree with is Patrick you need to add some kind of ibogaine and
| recovery section on Mindvox. Right now the only site publishing
| monographs is yours, because Dr. Mash owns the rights and can publish
| her own papers, but all of it is almost unreadable. Scratch the almost,
| I’m not dumb but I don’t understand most of what they say.

Bummer, so read sumthin’ else.  To repeat, I don’t own that site, I’m paid
to host it, run it, work on it.  I do not decide upon the content.

| Then there is the informal ibogaine treatment guide on ibogaine.org.
| Which is not very complete I understand it’s under construction. Then on
| ibogaine co uk there are the treatment options.

Well great, so there ya go.  If you want more complete and finely tuned
material, just set your time machine for 2011 or so.

| Ibogaine.org, .net, .co.uk are all great in different ways but none of
| them has a simple little self-help FAQ for what the difference is
| between what different suppliers are selling and what are good
| guidelines. You have to hunt and search for all of this. The exact same
| can be said of all your ibogaine material which everyone keeps pointing
| out. It appears in parts on ibogaine.org treatment (which is funny as
| shit, but the names are removed if I didn’t read the archives from this
| list I’d never know it. No maybe I would, you have a unique writing
| style :), it’s on co.uk, you have none of it on ibogaine.net and Heroin
| Times is a complete mess that is impossible to find anything in that
| thing.
|
| You’ve written more about ibogaine and recovery then anybody ever has
| and all of it is impossible to find. Also MIA are some drug pieces I
| remember scrolling by somewhere. Come on dog, organize some of it and
| put it into Mindvox, it’s all crazy enough that it’s not going to
| detract from your artistic incoherence.
|
| For real, how hard is it to take all that and just put it online?

It’s not hard, it’s just time consuming, and — especially lately — I
have 1001 other things I’m doing.  Yes the comments have been noted, yes
it’ll all come online.  Yes, we are doing various things in the background
and will kick up the whole entire profile of IbOGaINe a few more notches.
It’ll be simply magical, you’ll love it, it’ll make you Happy Inside.  By
which I mean to say, after spending many hours working on things and stuff
with a buncha people; 5 more people will write in with complaints about
what’s still missing or needs to be changed.

Don’t mean to unload, but I’m having a high stress day, and my mail seems
to be getting more and more filled with Things I Simply *Must* Do, or the
world will end.  Sure, no problem, right away if not sooner.  My rates are
$185 an hour.  Lemme know what block of time you wish to book in advance
please.

Patrick

From: Dana Beal <cnw@calyx.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine Death in Germany
Date: August 19, 2002 at 4:12:37 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

A young woman tragically died during an informal ibogaine session in Germany last month (July 2002). The death occurred about one and a half hours after taking 500mg of ibogaine HCl for personal development purposes. The cause of death is not yet established. The woman, aged 35 years and weighing 63 kg, had used the drug previously on one occasion without problem. Her partner has requested that I put out this basic announcement. More details will be posted once they become available.

Sorry to be the bearer of such bad tidings

Nick

Note that this was not a treatment for addiction, so that attitude of the participants may have been a bit casual. What I’ve learned so far is that she took it after traveling, without resting up first, so that she may have been dehydrated without realizing it. Mash found that virtually all arythmias could be eliminated by just making sure subjects are well-hydrated.

She had had open-heart surgery in the past. A year ago, a doctor assured her her heart was alright, without knowing what she wanted the information for.

It’s also worth noting that another person taking the same batch of HCl for oxycontin addiction went “into arrest” on  only 600 milligrams–just 100 more than this person–and was brought out of it only because a nurse was present who knew CPR. It turned out this person had an undisclosed history of seizures. So it could turn out to be batch-related.

I talked to Hattie yesterday, and she has suspended treatments because it turned out 5 people lied about their positive hepatitis C status because they knew she wouldn’t treat them if they told her the truth. Drug abusers lie. On the other hand, I personally believe ibogaine use should be restricted to active addicts because the risk/benefit situation is much more defensible if something goes wrong, as in this case. Bottom line–you want something for self-development, do acid.

The person who just died also had a fascination with death and the afterlife, so we may have a “death’s door” situation here–where she went through the door and didn’t feel like coming back. Mash was making people sign an contract, agreeing to come back. But try telling that to NIDA. As I understand it, CPR was tried, she almost came back, and then he lost her.

Nic, tell him I just lost all my email, so I’d like him to send those posts again where she talks about this. I didn’t really get a chance to read them. The Paris forum is looking good, and we may be able to put something together in Italy. Dr Ken says the only spin you can put on this is that desparate people are going to do Ibogaine, so it has to be put under the control of physicians so that fatalities can be minimized. Also, this is making the Indra look a little safer, albeit very nauseating.

Dana/cnw

From: Joatammmo23@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] relaps ,
Date: August 19, 2002 at 4:10:10 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

SAME TO YOU MORON.

From: ascending@hushmail.com
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] Kicking dope with ibogaine
Date: August 19, 2002 at 3:33:30 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

To voice my opinion here, I don’t care about the 12 step or anti 12 step or recovery dogmas it’s all a big who cares to me although of course I’m clean too and didn’t take any of that crap to heart either.

What I agree with is Patrick you need to add some kind of ibogaine and recovery section on Mindvox. Right now the only site publishing monographs is yours, because Dr. Mash owns the rights and can publish her own papers, but all of it is almost unreadable. Scratch the almost, I’m not dumb but I don’t understand most of what they say.

Then there is the informal ibogaine treatment guide on ibogaine.org. Which is not very complete I understand it’s under construction. Then on ibogaine co uk there are the treatment options.

Ibogaine.org, .net, .co.uk are all great in different ways but none of them has a simple little self-help FAQ for what the difference is between what different suppliers are selling and what are good guidelines. You have to hunt and search for all of this. The exact same can be said of all your ibogaine material which everyone keeps pointing out. It appears in parts on ibogaine.org treatment (which is funny as shit, but the names are removed if I didn’t read the archives from this list I’d never know it. No maybe I would, you have a unique writing style :), it’s on co.uk, you have none of it on ibogaine.net and Heroin Times is a complete mess that is impossible to find anything in that thing.

You’ve written more about ibogaine and recovery then anybody ever has and all of it is impossible to find. Also MIA are some drug pieces I remember scrolling by somewhere. Come on dog, organize some of it and put it into Mindvox, it’s all crazy enough that it’s not going to detract from your artistic incoherence.

For real, how hard is it to take all that and just put it online?

You should surely do this. And keep it real. Do not fill it up
with all that recovery rap garbage. I like Preston’s descriptio
n
of Mindvox the best from all the things I have read so far as h
e
has it on Drugwar “A site dedicated to ibogaine, psychedelics,
religious and creative aspects to drugs and users. Brilliant
website, full of shining light the prohibitionists are most afr
aid
of: smart people who like themselves and are creative and alrig
ht
despite their drug use.”

Right on. How about collecting what you write and making it kno
wn
that maybe there are not a lot of us, but right on this list th
ere
are many who would never stay sober using the 12 steps yet it i
s
happening. That truth is never let out of there, with Mindvox y
ou
have huge cred because you have this thing which is just being
hit
like crazy. So who cares what the medical people accept or don’
t,
you already do this with ibogaine and link everything but even
with Mindvox linking it I don’t think any of those sites are pa
st
the 100,000 level and most are around 200,000 to 300,000, most
of
the other ibogaine sites besides yours, .org, .co.uk are not ev
en
in the top 1 million, nobody is reading any of them. Put some
truth about recovery and what it all means online.

There is a great lack of truth and options for people. I rememb
er
that so well when people would tell me if I don’t do the steps
and
work a program I will die. And that’s the exact quote man, I wi
ll
die or end up in prison. It’s like thanks for the nice wishes b
ro,
I do not think like that or want to be around people who tell m
e
these things. Very negative trip, I do not like the 12 steps. T
hey
are good as a option but they are sure not the only way of doin
g
things.

Peace out,
Curtis

On Sat, 17 Aug 2002 Kerry Dawson wrote :

Yes they published my letter, which was a surprise
since it was personal email to the publisher.

I still would not change anything I said.

I am in the midst of my first vacation in nearly 3
years and wish all of you the very best.

Patrick, keep doing what you’re doing! Whatever
Mindvox is exactly, you’re message is going out there
loud and clear and you have one hell of an audience
tuning in. I just looked at that site ranking system
mentioned below.

http://www.alexa.com/data/details?q=mindvox&p=DestSearch_W_t_4
0_M3&mode=&url=http://www.mindvox.com/

Mindvox is at: 16,743

Compare the access statistics for:

AA: 52,464
http://www.alexa.com/data/details?amzn_id=&url=alcoholics-anon
ymous.org

NA: 84,122
http://www.alexa.com/data/details?q=narcotics%20anonymous&p=De
stSearch_W_t_40_M1&mode=&url=http://www.na.org/

DrcNET: 157,178
http://www.alexa.com/data/details?q=drcnet&p=DestSearch_W_t_40
_M1&mode=&url=http://www.drcnet.org/

This is remarkable to put it mildly. I’m starting to
feel something I haven’t felt in a long time, the word
I’m looking for here is: HOPE!

And Karina, hang in there! At the risk of being
shouted down by half this list, if you don’t know how
to remain sober then admitting that is the first step.
You might want to at least give some meetings a try.
What do you have to lose? In the worst case it’ll be a
little bit of time where you’re not taking whatever
pills you are doing. You did not specify.

And Patrick, good advice from the young lady. You have
one hell of an audience here. You may want to put
together some of what you’ve already written and make
it accessible from Mindvox. I don’t see the point in
publishing bits and pieces in different online
publications, when what you have here outranks all of
them. It would be a benefit if you started an
addiction section somewhere within your site!

Give it some thought. I know your image is being an
unrepentent badass who gives the finger to addiction
treatment. More power to you, extend the rest of your
hand and share more of what you have. You have no idea
how many people want some of it.

Have a great summer folks

Kerry Dawson, AIS, CAP, MAC

— Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com> wrote:

It finally came out 2 months late!

Howard I wouldn’t take it so seriously I think they
mangle everything. Patrick is in every issue, he
finished his addiction series I think this is the
last
in the series with the last one being that one with
Dave Hunter. They’ve also blown up the Mindvox logo
to
full page size and published a lot of letters 🙂

http://herointimes.com/aug02/intervent.html

http://herointimes.com/aug02/letters.html
http://herointimes.com/aug02/intervent3.html

Which reminds me to say one more time what I’ve
already said 5 times at least, Patrick why don’t you
take all those articles, you are at #17 or
something,
some of them are you giving addiction treatment the
finger, I understand you like to do that 🙂 But
beside the rants you have at least 12 or 14 which
are
awesome! And all about ibogaine and addiction, so
get
rid of their awful formatting and put them up
mindvox
or any ibogaine site. They’re great and I still
don’t
understand why you don’t open up a ibogaine section
on
the outside of the Mindvox site. Why write for
heroin
times when the mindvox hit rate is so much higher?

Mindvox is at 20,000 Heroin Times is at 160,000

http://www.alexa.com/data/details?q=mindvox&p=DestSearch_W_t_4
0_M3&mode=&url=http://www.mindvox.com/

http://www.alexa.com/data/details?q=mindvox&p=DestSearch_W_t_4
0_M3&mode=&url=http://www.herointimes.com

Come on, do it. I know you’re doing all these other
things but if you can find the time to keep adding
and
I’ll say art, not rants 😉 to the outside of the
site, you can put a series of articles which I bet
are
all sitting in the same directory anyway online. It
would take you 5 minutes.

Carla B

— HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:
I received an email from herointimes.com
announcing
their latest edition.  I
found an article announced on the cover titled,
Kicking Dope with Ibogaine.
It really sounded familiar.  Well, it should have
as
when I opened it I found
my name as author.  I wrote the article in March
of
2000 and was somewhat
disappointed that the layout was cut and pasted
here
and there incorrectly
and out of order making it difficult to comprehend
and some of the treatment
information of course was dated.  I was actually
expecting some new article
by Patrick as he has been writing for
herointimes.com on the subject.

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From: “ElGrekkko” <ElGrekkko@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine Death in Germany
Date: August 19, 2002 at 3:02:32 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Brett, I found that story I was talking about.
http://www.ibogaine.desk.nl/fernandez.html   It’s about a girl being
inititated into the Bwiti tribe, through ibogaine. I’m going to look over it
again, but I remember somewhere they talk about reaching amounts where your
blood vessels bulge as your soul goes popping out of your body. They trip
for several days when they initiate someone. It’s a beautiful plant. The
Bwiti tribe has dedicated their tribe name to it.

elg

—– Original Message —–
From: “Brett Calabrese” <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2002 1:23 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine Death in Germany

My heart goes out to them both.

While we await the &#34;details&#34; there have been a
few new posters lately who are interested in using
ibogaine and I think a few words of caution are in
order.

While generally a safe substance (when taken
properly), ibogaine does have the potential to cause
death. Let this be a reminder to take NOTHING for
granted when using ibogaine. Follow protocols and
procedures at all times, even if it is a low dose or
you have taken ibogaine previously (as in this case).

Do not take ibogaine with other meds

Do not take ibogaine if you have a heart condition

Get a physical. Ibogaine is vigorous stuff, even
jogging can kill if you are not up to it – maybe on
the 2nd jog…

Have your liver checked and use ibogaine with caution
if there is liver damage or not at all in severe
cases.

Take a test dose to see how you will react, even if
you did it before – it also seems to ease one into it
(may be more important with fast acting ibogaine HCL)
Ibogaine can produce quite a bit of anxiety.

Some people are so-called slow metabolizers, they do
not make nor-ibogaine out of ibogaine as fast as the
rest of us WHICH means the ibogaine itself can build
up in the bloodstream to very high levels. It would be
wise to cut down the dose (or abort) any treatment
where a wild reaction to a test dose of ibogaine is
encountered.

Just because you did ibogaine before, I GUARANTEE the
next time will be different, they invariably are.
There are numerous reports of low doses of ibogaine
hitting much harder than anticipated (or high doses
hitting less!) by people who have had previous
experience with its use.

This is not the whole list, review treatment
documentation on various ibogaine web sites such as
ibogaine.org and ibogaine.co.uk (Nick’s site)

It is the nature of ibogaine to be highly
unpredictable, even in the same person on any given
day.

Be careful out there…
Brett

— Nick Sandberg &lt;nick.sandberg@btinternet.com&gt;
wrote:
&gt; A young woman tragically died during an informal
&gt; ibogaine session in Germany last month (July
2002).
&gt; The death occurred about one and a half hours
after
&gt; taking 500mg of ibogaine HCl for personal
&gt; development purposes. The cause of death is not
yet
&gt; established. The woman, aged 35 years and
weighing
&gt; 63 kg, had used the drug previously on one
occasion
&gt; without problem. Her partner has requested that I
&gt; put out this basic announcement. More details
will
&gt; be posted once they become available.
&gt;
&gt; Sorry to be the bearer of such bad tidings
&gt;
&gt; Nick
&gt;

__________________________________________________
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From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine Death in Germany
Date: August 19, 2002 at 1:23:52 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

My heart goes out to them both.

While we await the &#34;details&#34; there have been a
few new posters lately who are interested in using
ibogaine and I think a few words of caution are in
order.

While generally a safe substance (when taken
properly), ibogaine does have the potential to cause
death. Let this be a reminder to take NOTHING for
granted when using ibogaine. Follow protocols and
procedures at all times, even if it is a low dose or
you have taken ibogaine previously (as in this case).

Do not take ibogaine with other meds

Do not take ibogaine if you have a heart condition

Get a physical. Ibogaine is vigorous stuff, even
jogging can kill if you are not up to it – maybe on
the 2nd jog…

Have your liver checked and use ibogaine with caution
if there is liver damage or not at all in severe
cases.

Take a test dose to see how you will react, even if
you did it before – it also seems to ease one into it
(may be more important with fast acting ibogaine HCL)
Ibogaine can produce quite a bit of anxiety.

Some people are so-called slow metabolizers, they do
not make nor-ibogaine out of ibogaine as fast as the
rest of us WHICH means the ibogaine itself can build
up in the bloodstream to very high levels. It would be
wise to cut down the dose (or abort) any treatment
where a wild reaction to a test dose of ibogaine is
encountered.

Just because you did ibogaine before, I GUARANTEE the
next time will be different, they invariably are.
There are numerous reports of low doses of ibogaine
hitting much harder than anticipated (or high doses
hitting less!) by people who have had previous
experience with its use.

This is not the whole list, review treatment
documentation on various ibogaine web sites such as
ibogaine.org and ibogaine.co.uk (Nick’s site)

It is the nature of ibogaine to be highly
unpredictable, even in the same person on any given
day.

Be careful out there…
Brett

— Nick Sandberg &lt;nick.sandberg@btinternet.com&gt;
wrote:
&gt; A young woman tragically died during an informal
&gt; ibogaine session in Germany last month (July
2002).
&gt; The death occurred about one and a half hours
after
&gt; taking 500mg of ibogaine HCl for personal
&gt; development purposes. The cause of death is not
yet
&gt; established. The woman, aged 35 years and
weighing
&gt; 63 kg, had used the drug previously on one
occasion
&gt; without problem. Her partner has requested that I
&gt; put out this basic announcement. More details
will
&gt; be posted once they become available.
&gt;
&gt; Sorry to be the bearer of such bad tidings
&gt;
&gt; Nick
&gt;

__________________________________________________
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HotJobs – Search Thousands of New Jobs
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From: “ElGrekkko” <ElGrekkko@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine Death in Germany
Date: August 19, 2002 at 12:26:33 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I read a long article about ibogaine online. What exactly does it do to the body, when it kills you? The most I could gather was that it raises blood pressure enormously.

elg
—– Original Message —–
From: Nick Sandberg
To: ibogaine@lists.calyx.nl ; ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: knehnav@xs4all.nl
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2002 8:23 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] Ibogaine Death in Germany

A young woman tragically died during an informal ibogaine session in Germany last month (July 2002). The death occurred about one and a half hours after taking 500mg of ibogaine HCl for personal development purposes. The cause of death is not yet established. The woman, aged 35 years and weighing 63 kg, had used the drug previously on one occasion without problem. Her partner has requested that I put out this basic announcement. More details will be posted once they become available.

Sorry to be the bearer of such bad tidings

Nick

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick.sandberg@btinternet.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Ibogaine Death in Germany
Date: August 19, 2002 at 8:23:36 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@lists.calyx.nl>, <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Cc: <knehnav@xs4all.nl>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

A young woman tragically died during an informal ibogaine session in Germany last month (July 2002). The death occurred about one and a half hours after taking 500mg of ibogaine HCl for personal development purposes. The cause of death is not yet established. The woman, aged 35 years and weighing 63 kg, had used the drug previously on one occasion without problem. Her partner has requested that I put out this basic announcement. More details will be posted once they become available.

Sorry to be the bearer of such bad tidings

Nick

From: “Alison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [IBOGAINE] (no subject)
Date: August 19, 2002 at 7:50:54 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

To Csabszter
How long had you been on 250g methadone.  Thats a hell of a level.  My
partner is probably 10 kg heavier than you, (and I thought he was a big boy)
just over 6 ft and using for most of his life off & on since 17  and has
been stabilized on 85mg methadone.  Perhaps if your down to 50mgs they
brought you down a bit fast.  Maybe you should ask if you should stabilize
before ibogaine.    Anyone else out there know if you should get the
methadone out of the system first or does it not make any difference.  Does
ibogaine work in any situation.    Allison
—–Original Message—–
From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
To: ibogaine@lists.calyx.nl <ibogaine@lists.calyx.nl>
Cc: ibogaine@mindvox.com <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Date: Monday, 19 August 2002 00:14
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: [IBOGAINE] (no subject)

I am worried that iboga might not take this away. Shall I prepare some
pain
killers for the iboga experience or not.

DO NOT take any pain killers (heroin, opium, methadone, or any synthetic
opiods) during your ibogaine treatment. You will run a very high risk of
overdose, as Ibogaine potentiates Opiates (in lay terms INCREASES THIER
EFFECTS).

TAKE EXTREME CAUTION if you decide to use any painkillers after the INDRA
wears
off, as you will still be risking an overdose as the iboga alkaloids remain
active in your system even though the effects have worn off (up to a month
afterwards).

DO NOT take the INDRA by yourself. you should have someone with you, to
monitor
you, checking heart rate, and be there to assist you in case you need help.

you may want to subscribe to the following list : ibogaine at mindvox.com (
send e-mail to: ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com) there are some folks there
who
have more experience with using Indra and can suggest dosage amounts, etc.

Good Luck,

-DH

— herczeg csaba <csabszter@hotmail.com> wrote:

hello ,
I am waiting for my 8 gramms of indra to be received in a few days. I am
95-100 kg male methadone addict. Over the past year my methadone
treatment
was very prompt and always recieved my medication on time. Over the past
3-4
weeks I reduced my dose from 250 mg down to 40-50 mg(as suggested for
ibogain use).I am fine yet yesterday I forgot to take my methadone and
this
morning I had terrible pain in my back . Buttomline I am afraid that
Iboga
might not take this pain away when I will take it. As said I have not
attemted to stop taking opiates for a year now and I am scared to death
from
the withdrawal symptoms and I tell you I never experienced such strong
pain
when I was on heroin or poppy tea or cut poppy milk. Methadone seems to
cause more pain as a withrawal symptom than other stuff. With those the
psycological withdrawal was more potent(shaking sweating nightmares
etc)and
I am worried that iboga might not take this away. Shall I prepare some
pain
killers for the iboga experience or not.
I am looking for your answers. thanks
Csaba

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From: “ElGrekkko” <ElGrekkko@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fw: Soma
Date: August 18, 2002 at 10:32:07 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— In 0-0-0-1_A_Cave_of_Thoughts@yahoogroups.com,
“Day Brown” <daybrown@a…>  wrote:

Persephone’s Quest, RG Wasson, tries to trace the
use of entheogens since the paleolithic.  Wasson
may have been prescient in making that case that
“Soma” was Amanita Muscria imported from Siberia
into the Indus.

EW Barber, The Mummies of Urumchi, discusses a
pair of temples at Gonur and Togolok, in what is
now the Kara Kum desert, but 4,000 years ago, was
a southern branch of the Steppe grasslands.

Both temples were no doubt regarded as ghost towns
by the few still in the area since neither shows
any evidence of looting and pillage.  An attitude
we see recorded from the Hopi & Navajo with their
own ghost towns built by the Anasazi, and again,
everything was left in situ since abandonment.

Both temples also show rooms dedicated to the
preparation of entheogens, assuming that the
traces of cannibis, ephedra, and opium left in
the bowls for millennia is meaningful. Despite
the absence of fungi, Barber also says that the
Rig Vedic ‘soma’ was psychotropic mushrooms. My
own oberservation shows that these fungi when
completely dessicated (as would have been the
case in the Kara Kum) would have by now, just
blown away.

Wasson cites the modern use by Siberian Shamen
of A. Muscaria, and EW Barber shows some clues
about the founding of the well known ‘Silk Road’
4000 years ago, and the less well known ‘soma
road’ – the East/West road crossing the North/south
one in the Kara Kum.

Whatever the recipe, ingredients indicated by the
remains of the Indo-European digs is extensive, as
was the use of entheogens in their mystical experience.

Besides, Socrates, Sophocles was also brought up on
charges of ‘profanation of the Mysteries’ from a few
lines in a play which refered to the experience of
bliss and how the Mystai was saved from the fear of
death.  This is very similar to the ideas which are
expressed in the Vedas.

The Vedic idea that Krishna projects reality looks
a lot like Plato’s cave, both positing an ultimate
source for what is experienced with the data
projected thru space like the Holodeck computer.

Another point: just -who- is experiencing the Bliss?
Clearly the self is not obliterated, and this has
been my own experience.  What is obliterated is the
illusion of complete separateness; this sense of
connectedness to all things is what results in the
universal compassion of the Buddha.

Finally, one of the reasons that the Nazis and the
Krishha freaks are OTL is their penchant for steep
patriarchic power structures.  EW Barber, for one,
adds considerably to the body of evidence which shows
that the infamous original ‘Aryans’ were a nomadic
horse culture lead by _women_.

That’s why they’ve found the graves of the ‘Scythian
Princesses’ but they cant find the kings.  The graves
of kings they can find, are the monarchs of the towns
on the periphery of the Steppes.

The mystical experience exposes the peer-to-peer
aspect of existance, and is antithetical to tyranny
and the pyramidal power stuctures of the Levantine
religious heritage so oriented twards controlling
others instead of the self.

uncopywritten material; do whatever you want with it.

— Arachne V1.50;beta, NON-COMMERCIAL copy, http://home.arachne.cz/
— End forwarded message —

From: “Curtis Hersch” <crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] Kicking dope with ibogaine
Date: August 18, 2002 at 9:18:32 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You should surely do this. And keep it real. Do not fill it up with all that recovery rap garbage. I like Preston’s description of Mindvox the best from all the things I have read so far as he has it on Drugwar “A site dedicated to ibogaine, psychedelics, religious and creative aspects to drugs and users. Brilliant website, full of shining light the prohibitionists are most afraid of: smart people who like themselves and are creative and alright despite their drug use.”

Right on. How about collecting what you write and making it known that maybe there are not a lot of us, but right on this list there are many who would never stay sober using the 12 steps yet it is happening. That truth is never let out of there, with Mindvox you have huge cred because you have this thing which is just being hit like crazy. So who cares what the medical people accept or don’t, you already do this with ibogaine and link everything but even with Mindvox linking it I don’t think any of those sites are past the 100,000 level and most are around 200,000 to 300,000, most of the other ibogaine sites besides yours, .org, .co.uk are not even in the top 1 million, nobody is reading any of them. Put some truth about recovery and what it all means online.

There is a great lack of truth and options for people. I remember that so well when people would tell me if I don’t do the steps and work a program I will die. And that’s the exact quote man, I will die or end up in prison. It’s like thanks for the nice wishes bro, I do not think like that or want to be around people who tell me these things. Very negative trip, I do not like the 12 steps. They are good as a option but they are sure not the only way of doing things.

Peace out,
Curtis

On Sat, 17 Aug 2002 Kerry Dawson wrote :

Yes they published my letter, which was a surprise
since it was personal email to the publisher.

I still would not change anything I said.

I am in the midst of my first vacation in nearly 3
years and wish all of you the very best.

Patrick, keep doing what you’re doing! Whatever
Mindvox is exactly, you’re message is going out there
loud and clear and you have one hell of an audience
tuning in. I just looked at that site ranking system
mentioned below.

http://www.alexa.com/data/details?q=mindvox&p=DestSearch_W_t_40_M3&mode=&url=http://www.mindvox.com/

Mindvox is at: 16,743

Compare the access statistics for:

AA: 52,464
http://www.alexa.com/data/details?amzn_id=&url=alcoholics-anonymous.org

NA: 84,122
http://www.alexa.com/data/details?q=narcotics%20anonymous&p=DestSearch_W_t_40_M1&mode=&url=http://www.na.org/

DrcNET: 157,178
http://www.alexa.com/data/details?q=drcnet&p=DestSearch_W_t_40_M1&mode=&url=http://www.drcnet.org/

This is remarkable to put it mildly. I’m starting to
feel something I haven’t felt in a long time, the word
I’m looking for here is: HOPE!

And Karina, hang in there! At the risk of being
shouted down by half this list, if you don’t know how
to remain sober then admitting that is the first step.
You might want to at least give some meetings a try.
What do you have to lose? In the worst case it’ll be a
little bit of time where you’re not taking whatever
pills you are doing. You did not specify.

And Patrick, good advice from the young lady. You have
one hell of an audience here. You may want to put
together some of what you’ve already written and make
it accessible from Mindvox. I don’t see the point in
publishing bits and pieces in different online
publications, when what you have here outranks all of
them. It would be a benefit if you started an
addiction section somewhere within your site!

Give it some thought. I know your image is being an
unrepentent badass who gives the finger to addiction
treatment. More power to you, extend the rest of your
hand and share more of what you have. You have no idea
how many people want some of it.

Have a great summer folks

Kerry Dawson, AIS, CAP, MAC

— Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> It finally came out 2 months late!
>
> Howard I wouldn’t take it so seriously I think they
> mangle everything. Patrick is in every issue, he
> finished his addiction series I think this is the
> last
> in the series with the last one being that one with
> Dave Hunter. They’ve also blown up the Mindvox logo
> to
> full page size and published a lot of letters 🙂
>
> http://herointimes.com/aug02/intervent.html
>
> http://herointimes.com/aug02/letters.html
> http://herointimes.com/aug02/intervent3.html
>
> Which reminds me to say one more time what I’ve
> already said 5 times at least, Patrick why don’t you
> take all those articles, you are at #17 or
> something,
> some of them are you giving addiction treatment the
> finger, I understand you like to do that 🙂 But
> beside the rants you have at least 12 or 14 which
> are
> awesome! And all about ibogaine and addiction, so
> get
> rid of their awful formatting and put them up
> mindvox
> or any ibogaine site. They’re great and I still
> don’t
> understand why you don’t open up a ibogaine section
> on
> the outside of the Mindvox site. Why write for
> heroin
> times when the mindvox hit rate is so much higher?
>
> Mindvox is at 20,000 Heroin Times is at 160,000
>
>
http://www.alexa.com/data/details?q=mindvox&p=DestSearch_W_t_40_M3&mode=&url=http://www.mindvox.com/
>
http://www.alexa.com/data/details?q=mindvox&p=DestSearch_W_t_40_M3&mode=&url=http://www.herointimes.com
>
> Come on, do it. I know you’re doing all these other
> things but if you can find the time to keep adding
> and
> I’ll say art, not rants 😉 to the outside of the
> site, you can put a series of articles which I bet
> are
> all sitting in the same directory anyway online. It
> would take you 5 minutes.
>
> Carla B
>
> — HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:
> > I received an email from herointimes.com
> announcing
> > their latest edition.  I
> > found an article announced on the cover titled,
> > Kicking Dope with Ibogaine.
> > It really sounded familiar.  Well, it should have
> as
> > when I opened it I found
> > my name as author.  I wrote the article in March
> of
> > 2000 and was somewhat
> > disappointed that the layout was cut and pasted
> here
> > and there incorrectly
> > and out of order making it difficult to comprehend
> > and some of the treatment
> > information of course was dated.  I was actually
> > expecting some new article
> > by Patrick as he has been writing for
> > herointimes.com on the subject.
> >
>
>

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From: “Curtis Hersch” <crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] Kicking dope with ibogaine
Date: August 18, 2002 at 8:56:32 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The most important thing Mindvox needs to do is add a mother love bone banner! What the hell is that mr. mittens shit in the music section? That’s it, that’s the entire music section. I listened to that special dinner song, that shit is bad. Not bad like dope, bad like awful, it’s so awful I’m thinking it is a joke, white people making fun of hip hop. “I got 3/4s of a mind to strangle you with an extension cord bitch” Except I think eminem already did that, though he doesn’t know he’s doing it and acts all hard.

I lose my focus, my focus is add a Mother Love Bone banner Patrick!

Curtis

On Sat, 17 Aug 2002 vector6@space.com wrote :

Recovery person, who cares? Mindvox needs to kill
slashdot. Even that’s not so important because who
cares about that either.

The most important thing mindvox needs to do is open up
email already. I just got notice that space is going
out of business Sep 1. There goes my email.

Hotmail is trash, yahoo is becoming trash and what will
I find there anyway. SORRY THAT NAME IS TAKEN, EVERY
VECTOR IS TAKEN, DO YOU WANT TO BE VECTOR____20021001?

Come on. I know you peeps started the beta running,
just get mail running. I need to get a account
somewhere that is not closing or broken or awful.

.:vector:.

On Fri, 16 August 2002, Kerry Dawson wrote:

>
>
> Yes they published my letter, which was a surprise
> since it was personal email to the publisher.
>
> I still would not change anything I said.
>
> I am in the midst of my first vacation in nearly 3
> years and wish all of you the very best.
>
> Patrick, keep doing what you’re doing! Whatever
> Mindvox is exactly, you’re message is going out there
> loud and clear and you have one hell of an audience
> tuning in. I just looked at that site ranking system
> mentioned below.
>

> Mindvox is at: 16,743
>
> Compare the access statistics for:
>
> AA: 52,464

___________________________________________________________________
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From: “Curtis Hersch” <crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine tripping
Date: August 18, 2002 at 8:52:29 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey bro thanks for the thoughtful reply. I did not have a habit when I dosed I have been clean of heroin for about 2 years now maybe a little longer if you count strictly heroin and not the odd pill here and there when someone have some good d 4’s I could not pass up.

I’ve read so many different experiences happening here but for me when I did it my intent was like healing or wanting to just be in a better place. I didn’t have any huge expectation and thought I’ll trip. I did not have a real bad trip I mean I went to some darkness and cried afterwards and had some upheavels but what it really feels like is just this total cleansing.

Reading some of what’s on here I probably did not need to dose at the range I did to just have a spiritual kick off from it, but right now it’s strange. It is like a total cleansing. I feel good! I’ve felt not that good for so long I think I forgot what it’s like. I’m not on cloud 9 or anything but I’m happy man. Life feels good. It’s hard to explain but little things I always took for granted I’m happy for and it’s good to wake up in the morning.

I do not think I am ready to personally become a psychedelic gateway to different planes like Patrick and I’m not really fiending for acid like karina but let me say that I have lost a lot of my fear and when acid comes into my life I won’t be hiding from it, because I’ve been so afraid to trip for a long time and so much of what I thought about all the time was just not doing heroin.

I don’t feel that way anymore. I feel good!

Peace out,
Curtis

On Thu, 15 Aug 2002 Nick Sandberg wrote :

Hi Curtis,

Mostly I figure ibogaine unloads you of what’s going on beneath the surface.
If there’s big backlog of stuff waiting to be emptied out, like the recycle
bin, then it tries to dump the lot during the session. This is one reason
why some people trip like crazy and others not so much. I’d get a lot of
emotional stuff for hours then feel really clean for days afterward, like
all the things in the way of me being who I wanted to be were gone.

all the best

Nick

> “Not all who wander are lost” Right on man, right on! And so
> true.

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From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: [IBOGAINE] (no subject)
Date: August 18, 2002 at 8:13:58 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@lists.calyx.nl
Cc: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I am worried that iboga might not take this away. Shall I prepare some pain
killers for the iboga experience or not.

DO NOT take any pain killers (heroin, opium, methadone, or any synthetic
opiods) during your ibogaine treatment. You will run a very high risk of
overdose, as Ibogaine potentiates Opiates (in lay terms INCREASES THIER
EFFECTS).

TAKE EXTREME CAUTION if you decide to use any painkillers after the INDRA wears
off, as you will still be risking an overdose as the iboga alkaloids remain
active in your system even though the effects have worn off (up to a month
afterwards).

DO NOT take the INDRA by yourself. you should have someone with you, to monitor
you, checking heart rate, and be there to assist you in case you need help.

you may want to subscribe to the following list : ibogaine at mindvox.com (
send e-mail to: ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com) there are some folks there who
have more experience with using Indra and can suggest dosage amounts, etc.

Good Luck,

-DH

— herczeg csaba <csabszter@hotmail.com> wrote:

hello ,
I am waiting for my 8 gramms of indra to be received in a few days. I am
95-100 kg male methadone addict. Over the past year my methadone treatment
was very prompt and always recieved my medication on time. Over the past 3-4
weeks I reduced my dose from 250 mg down to 40-50 mg(as suggested for
ibogain use).I am fine yet yesterday I forgot to take my methadone and this
morning I had terrible pain in my back . Buttomline I am afraid that Iboga
might not take this pain away when I will take it. As said I have not
attemted to stop taking opiates for a year now and I am scared to death from
the withdrawal symptoms and I tell you I never experienced such strong pain
when I was on heroin or poppy tea or cut poppy milk. Methadone seems to
cause more pain as a withrawal symptom than other stuff. With those the
psycological withdrawal was more potent(shaking sweating nightmares etc)and
I am worried that iboga might not take this away. Shall I prepare some pain
killers for the iboga experience or not.
I am looking for your answers. thanks
Csaba

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick.sandberg@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Need help
Date: August 17, 2002 at 8:29:53 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: “steve diamond” <stevediamond79@hotmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, August 16, 2002 11:32 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Need help

It is five grams of rootbark powder supplied by an ethnobotany store in
the
Netherlands. He has a very small dope habit. He can go out of town for a
few
days and be fine. The problem is when he comes back he always cops one bag
or a 40mg Oxy everyday.  It is more psychological than anything. I’ve seen
him in the past with a serious habit where he could not get out of bed
without fixing.

I read of people tripping from 5 grams of root powder.

5g isn’t so much for this. 15g would probably be nearer the mark. It can be
good to work with a lower dose first to check out the drug is safe for you
but 5g is still low.

As to different types of the drug, just to make things more confusing there
are now at least 4 types of ‘ibogaine’ easily available, that’s with the
addition of a new Canadian extract:

– ibogaine HCl from Slovenia
– iboga rootbark and root from Cameroun and Gabon
– Indra iboga extract from Copenhagen
– http://www.ethnogarden.com/ in Canada offering an extract they report as
~60% pure ibogaine made up with broad spec iboga alkaloids.

In addition, I think Eric and Karl N use their own stuff.

Hope this helps

Nick

From: Hattie <epoptica@freeuk.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Need help
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 10:47:46 +0100

on 8/15/02 11:24 PM, steve diamond at stevediamond79@hotmail.com wrote:

Is it the iboga root bark extract (the indra product) or is it the
straight
rootbark? If it is the latter I don’t think that will be enough. From
what
I
understand you need at least ten grams of that for an experience, for
detoxing you will need at least double that. I work with HCL and am
therefore not an expert in the use of rootbark but have been involved in
the
ibogaine story for a number of years. I would have thought if it is just
the
rootbark you will need 15-20grams to detox, but then depends what the
habit
is? You need to supply more info, is he a heroin or opiate user if so the
larger dose required. If it is to stop smoking or some such thing and it
is
more for the experience then 10grams of the rootbark will be fine.

However MAKE SURE IT IS THE ROOTBARK AND NOT THE INDRA EXTRACT. IF IT IS
THE
INDRA EXTRACT ANY MORE THAN FIVE GRAMS IS EXTREMELY DANGEROUS. FOR A
DETOX
I
WOULD USE 3-4 OF THE INDRA EXTRACT.

as I said please supply more info, then I will say more about how to be a
sitter – something I am currently writing a paper on.

Hattie

A friend is about to take 5 grams of iboga roots for a detox off a
mild
habit. He asked me to “hang out” while he trips. What I want to know
is
1. What should I expect?
2. Is 5 grams enough to get him off enough that I would notice
anything
different about how he acts?
3. Is there anything I should be prepared to do if he freaks out?
4. Any other suggestions about being a babysitter?

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From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Kicking dope with ibogaine
Date: August 16, 2002 at 9:53:21 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

i will ask my doctor what to do……i feel normal” taking meds……..my husband goes off on me about it……..he says pills are the same as methadone  hell no……..i think i can get weaned off the pills…..i refuse to do heroin or methadone……still craving acid i do not know why………who knows??????? karina

From: <nruhtra@dsskcorp.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] wired on Shulgin
Date: August 16, 2002 at 8:27:07 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Cc: <vector6@space.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

also he created 2ct7 and ofcourse many others
dsskcorp.com/ibidem
n.

This is really a cool story. I never knew Shulgin
invented MDMA. That guy is so smart and really sharp at
his age. I’ve seen him talk at Berkley that was great.

Interesting story.

.:vector:.

On Fri, 16 August 2002, Dana Beal wrote:

PROFESSOR X

Alexander Shulgin made millions for Dow Chemical. Then
he synthesized MDMA,
realized his best test subject was himself, and became
the godfather of
Generation Ecstasy.

Now he’s back inside his private lab, running a new
batch of psychedelic
compounds through his chromatograph.

JUST AFTER sunset on a cool California evening last
fall, Alexander Shulgin
prepared to test the effects of the cactus Pachycereus
pringlei on himself,
his wife, and 10 other subjects.

The group, which included two chemists and an
anthropologist, gathered in
the living room of a redwood house deep in the woods
to
help Shulgin with
his research into psychedelic cacti.

___________________________________________________________________ Join
the Space Program: Get FREE E-mail at http://www.space.com.

From: vector6@space.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Kicking dope with ibogaine
Date: August 16, 2002 at 6:48:20 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Recovery person, who cares? Mindvox needs to kill
slashdot. Even that’s not so important because who
cares about that either.

The most important thing mindvox needs to do is open up
email already. I just got notice that space is going
out of business Sep 1. There goes my email.

Hotmail is trash, yahoo is becoming trash and what will
I find there anyway. SORRY THAT NAME IS TAKEN, EVERY
VECTOR IS TAKEN, DO YOU WANT TO BE VECTOR____20021001?

Come on. I know you peeps started the beta running,
just get mail running. I need to get a account
somewhere that is not closing or broken or awful.

.:vector:.

On Fri, 16 August 2002, Kerry Dawson wrote:

Yes they published my letter, which was a surprise
since it was personal email to the publisher.

I still would not change anything I said.

I am in the midst of my first vacation in nearly 3
years and wish all of you the very best.

Patrick, keep doing what you’re doing! Whatever
Mindvox is exactly, you’re message is going out there
loud and clear and you have one hell of an audience
tuning in. I just looked at that site ranking system
mentioned below.

Mindvox is at: 16,743

Compare the access statistics for:

AA: 52,464

___________________________________________________________________
Join the Space Program: Get FREE E-mail at http://www.space.com.

From: vector6@space.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] wired on Shulgin
Date: August 16, 2002 at 6:43:47 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This is really a cool story. I never knew Shulgin
invented MDMA. That guy is so smart and really sharp at
his age. I’ve seen him talk at Berkley that was great.

Interesting story.

.:vector:.

On Fri, 16 August 2002, Dana Beal wrote:

PROFESSOR X

Alexander Shulgin made millions for Dow Chemical. Then
he synthesized MDMA,
realized his best test subject was himself, and became
the godfather of
Generation Ecstasy.

Now he’s back inside his private lab, running a new
batch of psychedelic
compounds through his chromatograph.

JUST AFTER sunset on a cool California evening last
fall, Alexander Shulgin
prepared to test the effects of the cactus Pachycereus
pringlei on himself,
his wife, and 10 other subjects.

The group, which included two chemists and an
anthropologist, gathered in
the living room of a redwood house deep in the woods
to
help Shulgin with
his research into psychedelic cacti.

___________________________________________________________________
Join the Space Program: Get FREE E-mail at http://www.space.com.

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] wired on Shulgin
Date: August 16, 2002 at 6:36:02 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Pubdate: Tue, 13 Aug 2002
Source: Wired Magazine (CA)
Copyright: 2002 Wired Digital Inc.
Contact: newsfeedback@wired.com
Website: http://www.wired.com/
Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/505
Author: Ethan Brown
Bookmark: http://www.mapinc.org/mdma.htm (Ecstasy)

PROFESSOR X

Alexander Shulgin made millions for Dow Chemical. Then he synthesized MDMA,
realized his best test subject was himself, and became the godfather of
Generation Ecstasy.

Now he’s back inside his private lab, running a new batch of psychedelic
compounds through his chromatograph.

JUST AFTER sunset on a cool California evening last fall, Alexander Shulgin
prepared to test the effects of the cactus Pachycereus pringlei on himself,
his wife, and 10 other subjects.

The group, which included two chemists and an anthropologist, gathered in
the living room of a redwood house deep in the woods to help Shulgin with
his research into psychedelic cacti.

URL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v02.n1494.a07.html

——————————

From: “steve diamond” <stevediamond79@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Need help
Date: August 16, 2002 at 6:32:45 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

It is five grams of rootbark powder supplied by an ethnobotany store in the Netherlands. He has a very small dope habit. He can go out of town for a few days and be fine. The problem is when he comes back he always cops one bag or a 40mg Oxy everyday.  It is more psychological than anything. I’ve seen him in the past with a serious habit where he could not get out of bed without fixing.

I read of people tripping from 5 grams of root powder.

From: Hattie <epoptica@freeuk.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Need help
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 10:47:46 +0100

on 8/15/02 11:24 PM, steve diamond at stevediamond79@hotmail.com wrote:

Is it the iboga root bark extract (the indra product) or is it the straight
rootbark? If it is the latter I don’t think that will be enough. From what I
understand you need at least ten grams of that for an experience, for
detoxing you will need at least double that. I work with HCL and am
therefore not an expert in the use of rootbark but have been involved in the
ibogaine story for a number of years. I would have thought if it is just the
rootbark you will need 15-20grams to detox, but then depends what the habit
is? You need to supply more info, is he a heroin or opiate user if so the
larger dose required. If it is to stop smoking or some such thing and it is
more for the experience then 10grams of the rootbark will be fine.

However MAKE SURE IT IS THE ROOTBARK AND NOT THE INDRA EXTRACT. IF IT IS THE
INDRA EXTRACT ANY MORE THAN FIVE GRAMS IS EXTREMELY DANGEROUS. FOR A DETOX I
WOULD USE 3-4 OF THE INDRA EXTRACT.

as I said please supply more info, then I will say more about how to be a
sitter – something I am currently writing a paper on.

Hattie

>
>
>
> A friend is about to take 5 grams of iboga roots for a detox off a mild
> habit. He asked me to “hang out” while he trips. What I want to know is
> 1. What should I expect?
> 2. Is 5 grams enough to get him off enough that I would notice anything
> different about how he acts?
> 3. Is there anything I should be prepared to do if he freaks out?
> 4. Any other suggestions about being a babysitter?
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>
>
>
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Kicking dope with ibogaine
Date: August 16, 2002 at 6:23:16 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

And Karina, hang in there! At the risk of being
shouted down by half this list, if you don’t know
how
to remain sober then admitting that is the first
step.
You might want to at least give some meetings a try.

It just feels hopeless sometimes, it is to trick you
into using. If you feel bad enough (and believe me,
your disease will try) your disease hopes you will
use, tells you it will make it better (ah, remember
the first time you used). Funny game, huh?

Guess what Karina? You are not on Meth any longer, if
that ain’t hope I don’t know what is. It is just going
to suck for a while (more or less), then it will suck
a little less and the moments of joy will happen, then
more joy, less sucking…

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs – Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com

From: Kerry Dawson <kdawsonais@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Kicking dope with ibogaine
Date: August 16, 2002 at 4:37:14 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yes they published my letter, which was a surprise
since it was personal email to the publisher.

I still would not change anything I said.

I am in the midst of my first vacation in nearly 3
years and wish all of you the very best.

Patrick, keep doing what you’re doing! Whatever
Mindvox is exactly, you’re message is going out there
loud and clear and you have one hell of an audience
tuning in. I just looked at that site ranking system
mentioned below.

http://www.alexa.com/data/details?q=mindvox&p=DestSearch_W_t_40_M3&mode=&url=http://www.mindvox.com/

Mindvox is at: 16,743

Compare the access statistics for:

AA: 52,464
http://www.alexa.com/data/details?amzn_id=&url=alcoholics-anonymous.org

NA: 84,122
http://www.alexa.com/data/details?q=narcotics%20anonymous&p=DestSearch_W_t_40_M1&mode=&url=http://www.na.org/

DrcNET: 157,178
http://www.alexa.com/data/details?q=drcnet&p=DestSearch_W_t_40_M1&mode=&url=http://www.drcnet.org/

This is remarkable to put it mildly. I’m starting to
feel something I haven’t felt in a long time, the word
I’m looking for here is: HOPE!

And Karina, hang in there! At the risk of being
shouted down by half this list, if you don’t know how
to remain sober then admitting that is the first step.
You might want to at least give some meetings a try.
What do you have to lose? In the worst case it’ll be a
little bit of time where you’re not taking whatever
pills you are doing. You did not specify.

And Patrick, good advice from the young lady. You have
one hell of an audience here. You may want to put
together some of what you’ve already written and make
it accessible from Mindvox. I don’t see the point in
publishing bits and pieces in different online
publications, when what you have here outranks all of
them. It would be a benefit if you started an
addiction section somewhere within your site!

Give it some thought. I know your image is being an
unrepentent badass who gives the finger to addiction
treatment. More power to you, extend the rest of your
hand and share more of what you have. You have no idea
how many people want some of it.

Have a great summer folks

Kerry Dawson, AIS, CAP, MAC

— Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com> wrote:

It finally came out 2 months late!

Howard I wouldn’t take it so seriously I think they
mangle everything. Patrick is in every issue, he
finished his addiction series I think this is the
last
in the series with the last one being that one with
Dave Hunter. They’ve also blown up the Mindvox logo
to
full page size and published a lot of letters 🙂

http://herointimes.com/aug02/intervent.html

http://herointimes.com/aug02/letters.html
http://herointimes.com/aug02/intervent3.html

Which reminds me to say one more time what I’ve
already said 5 times at least, Patrick why don’t you
take all those articles, you are at #17 or
something,
some of them are you giving addiction treatment the
finger, I understand you like to do that 🙂 But
beside the rants you have at least 12 or 14 which
are
awesome! And all about ibogaine and addiction, so
get
rid of their awful formatting and put them up
mindvox
or any ibogaine site. They’re great and I still
don’t
understand why you don’t open up a ibogaine section
on
the outside of the Mindvox site. Why write for
heroin
times when the mindvox hit rate is so much higher?

Mindvox is at 20,000 Heroin Times is at 160,000

http://www.alexa.com/data/details?q=mindvox&p=DestSearch_W_t_40_M3&mode=&url=http://www.mindvox.com/

http://www.alexa.com/data/details?q=mindvox&p=DestSearch_W_t_40_M3&mode=&url=http://www.herointimes.com

Come on, do it. I know you’re doing all these other
things but if you can find the time to keep adding
and
I’ll say art, not rants 😉 to the outside of the
site, you can put a series of articles which I bet
are
all sitting in the same directory anyway online. It
would take you 5 minutes.

Carla B

— HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:
I received an email from herointimes.com
announcing
their latest edition.  I
found an article announced on the cover titled,
Kicking Dope with Ibogaine.
It really sounded familiar.  Well, it should have
as
when I opened it I found
my name as author.  I wrote the article in March
of
2000 and was somewhat
disappointed that the layout was cut and pasted
here
and there incorrectly
and out of order making it difficult to comprehend
and some of the treatment
information of course was dated.  I was actually
expecting some new article
by Patrick as he has been writing for
herointimes.com on the subject.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs – Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com

From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Need help
Date: August 16, 2002 at 10:15:48 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hi why don’t yoy go to www.obogaine.org/lotsof.html …….it explains better than me…….i’m not dure how  many mgs i was give but tripped my ass offf…..but i loved it……..i did not have any withdrawls i was on 100mg of methadone,i just left too soon cause the 2nd day home my legs were killing me and tha how i know i’m in withdrawls…….but i am  now..my problem i am taking pills i just do not know how to be straight….karina

From: “Alison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Russia Halts Addict Lobotomies
Date: August 16, 2002 at 8:01:53 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Unreal.  I am stunned by that article.  The operations were not even
approved by the Health Ministry.  Scary stuff in my opinion.  I would be
interested to hear the follow up about the issue.  Will they make it
acceptable or approved or not.   I know for sure I might want to kick
addiction but I wouldn’t want someone tampering with my brain (whats there
still) to cure me…The statistics state that Russia has one of the biggest
drug problem out of all countries, not many treatment centres and doesn’t
deal with addicts and their problems.  Apparently they also have a really
high crime level.  Perhaps their attitudes add to the problems.  The last
documentary I watched about Russia and juvenilles was horrifying.  The
centres they held young children in were worse than any jail we could
imagine in the Western World and these were just kids.  I have to wonder
what the adult prisons are like.    .Allison
—–Original Message—–
From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Date: Friday, 16 August 2002 07:59
Subject: [ibogaine] Russia Halts Addict Lobotomies

Pubdate: Fri, 09 Aug 2002
Source: Guardian, The (UK)
Copyright: 2002 Guardian Newspapers Limited
Contact: letters@guardian.co.uk
Website: http://www.guardian.co.uk/guardian/
Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/175
Author: Nick Paton Walsh
Bookmark: http://www.mapinc.org/rehab.htm (Treatment)

RUSSIA BANS BRAIN SURGERY ON DRUG ADDICTS

A series of controversial brain operations pioneered by St Petersburg
scientists as a cure to drug addiction has been halted by Russian
authorities after a patient complained of damaging side-effects.

The operations, which began at the institute of the human brain in St
Petersburg in 1999, removed a part of the brain associated with addiction.
The programme has so far treated 335 patients, but the prosecutor’s office
in St Petersburg ordered an end to the operations on Monday after a former
patient won a court case against the institute.

The patient claimed he had suffered headaches as a result of the operation,
which also failed to cure him of his addiction. The court awarded him the
cost of the surgery, about UKP5,000. Russian authorities then halted use of
the procedure on the grounds that it was experimental and had not been
licensed by the health ministry.

URL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v02.n1474.a03.html

——————————

From: Hattie <epoptica@freeuk.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Need help
Date: August 16, 2002 at 5:47:46 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

on 8/15/02 11:24 PM, steve diamond at stevediamond79@hotmail.com wrote:

Is it the iboga root bark extract (the indra product) or is it the straight
rootbark? If it is the latter I don’t think that will be enough. From what I
understand you need at least ten grams of that for an experience, for
detoxing you will need at least double that. I work with HCL and am
therefore not an expert in the use of rootbark but have been involved in the
ibogaine story for a number of years. I would have thought if it is just the
rootbark you will need 15-20grams to detox, but then depends what the habit
is? You need to supply more info, is he a heroin or opiate user if so the
larger dose required. If it is to stop smoking or some such thing and it is
more for the experience then 10grams of the rootbark will be fine.

However MAKE SURE IT IS THE ROOTBARK AND NOT THE INDRA EXTRACT. IF IT IS THE
INDRA EXTRACT ANY MORE THAN FIVE GRAMS IS EXTREMELY DANGEROUS. FOR A DETOX I
WOULD USE 3-4 OF THE INDRA EXTRACT.

as I said please supply more info, then I will say more about how to be a
sitter – something I am currently writing a paper on.

Hattie

A friend is about to take 5 grams of iboga roots for a detox off a mild
habit. He asked me to “hang out” while he trips. What I want to know is
1. What should I expect?
2. Is 5 grams enough to get him off enough that I would notice anything
different about how he acts?
3. Is there anything I should be prepared to do if he freaks out?
4. Any other suggestions about being a babysitter?

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Russia Halts Addict Lobotomies
Date: August 16, 2002 at 3:09:50 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’d rather have a bottle in front of me than a lobotomy.

-gamma

— Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org> wrote:

Pubdate: Fri, 09 Aug 2002
Source: Guardian, The (UK)
Copyright: 2002 Guardian Newspapers Limited
Contact: letters@guardian.co.uk
Website: http://www.guardian.co.uk/guardian/
Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/175
Author: Nick Paton Walsh
Bookmark: http://www.mapinc.org/rehab.htm (Treatment)

RUSSIA BANS BRAIN SURGERY ON DRUG ADDICTS

A series of controversial brain operations pioneered by St Petersburg
scientists as a cure to drug addiction has been halted by Russian
authorities after a patient complained of damaging side-effects.

The operations, which began at the institute of the human brain in St
Petersburg in 1999, removed a part of the brain associated with addiction.
The programme has so far treated 335 patients, but the prosecutor’s office
in St Petersburg ordered an end to the operations on Monday after a former
patient won a court case against the institute.

The patient claimed he had suffered headaches as a result of the operation,
which also failed to cure him of his addiction. The court awarded him the
cost of the surgery, about UKP5,000. Russian authorities then halted use of
the procedure on the grounds that it was experimental and had not been
licensed by the health ministry.

URL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v02.n1474.a03.html

——————————

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs – Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com

From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Need help
Date: August 16, 2002 at 12:35:29 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hi i did ibogaine 7/13 i do not know the dose but i was detoxing from 100mg of methadone…just lay flat on your back don;t move your head or you will throw up……unless the person is scared  of ibogaine there won’t be a bad trip…………just be their in case he needs you….but i did it in Mexico there were 2 doctors their they just kept checking my blood pressue…….they gave me 2 ibogaine pills and 1 more 2 days later………..if  he sees something he does not like blink it will go away ex:: i saw ants and spiders i blinked and they were gone…….see i loved the ibogaine  alot of people  don’t i would do it again just to do it……….but $$$$$$$ cannot afford it maybe someday…..hope i helped any more questions feel free and I’ll help if i can karina

From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Need help
Date: August 16, 2002 at 12:22:41 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine tripping
Date: August 16, 2002 at 12:21:13 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hi, your right i asked the doc.  in Mexico he also said a 2nd treatment would make it worse cause i have insomnia, and anxiety for a long time..and i take trazadone non narcotic for years for sleep……..i loved the ibogaine that’s cause i used to trip alot………and so far no cravings…….the only thing is i did not stay long enough i detoxed from 100 mg of methadone the day i left mexico i felt fine but the 2nd day home my legs and that is what gets me the most when i detox..so i went to the ER 6 times i just wanted to cut my legs off they hurt sooo very bad……the ER gave me toradol and that helped……….sometimes i think i will e on some kind of meds at least for a while…….i was on ritilin in 2nd grade to 6th then in 7th grade starting drugs and drinking i am 41 yrs….right now day by day…..karina

From: “steve diamond” <stevediamond79@hotmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Need help
Date: August 15, 2002 at 6:24:48 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

A friend is about to take 5 grams of iboga roots for a detox off a mild habit. He asked me to “hang out” while he trips. What I want to know is
1. What should I expect?
2. Is 5 grams enough to get him off enough that I would notice anything different about how he acts?
3. Is there anything I should be prepared to do if he freaks out?
4. Any other suggestions about being a babysitter?

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Russia Halts Addict Lobotomies
Date: August 15, 2002 at 3:59:27 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Pubdate: Fri, 09 Aug 2002
Source: Guardian, The (UK)
Copyright: 2002 Guardian Newspapers Limited
Contact: letters@guardian.co.uk
Website: http://www.guardian.co.uk/guardian/
Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/175
Author: Nick Paton Walsh
Bookmark: http://www.mapinc.org/rehab.htm (Treatment)

RUSSIA BANS BRAIN SURGERY ON DRUG ADDICTS

A series of controversial brain operations pioneered by St Petersburg
scientists as a cure to drug addiction has been halted by Russian
authorities after a patient complained of damaging side-effects.

The operations, which began at the institute of the human brain in St
Petersburg in 1999, removed a part of the brain associated with addiction.
The programme has so far treated 335 patients, but the prosecutor’s office
in St Petersburg ordered an end to the operations on Monday after a former
patient won a court case against the institute.

The patient claimed he had suffered headaches as a result of the operation,
which also failed to cure him of his addiction. The court awarded him the
cost of the surgery, about UKP5,000. Russian authorities then halted use of
the procedure on the grounds that it was experimental and had not been
licensed by the health ministry.

URL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v02.n1474.a03.html

——————————

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine tripping
Date: August 15, 2002 at 3:04:45 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sounds like you got a lot of positive stuff out of your voyage there Curtis, glad to hear that. Someone else asked me out of the blue the other day if I’d ever tried ibogaine. Rueful grin, nope.
But the more I read….
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Nick Sandberg
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 1:57 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine tripping

—– Original Message —–
From: “Curtis Hersch” <crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 8:16 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] ibogaine tripping

>
> I wanted to say hey to everyone I have been not here lately and
> having massive experiences.
>
> I weigh 175 and I did 1 gram and whoever said you do not
> hallucinate I don’t know what they did because you fucking trip
> balls. That is like a freight train bro, you trip and it knocks
> you on your ass! I could not walk I was shaky for a day.
>
> Man I will write more I want to share so much but it’s like my
> mind will not cooperate right now and I’m tired.
>
> Shout outs to patrick and preston and all the crazies! I’d ask
> where you went except I’m watching parts of mindvox blowing open
> and reading drugwar. So I know where both of you are spending
> time. Man this is so cool. The Drugwar list kicks, you got some
> massively smart people there preston, I am reading it when I
> opened my mail it’s like holy shit! 400 new messages in a few
> days. Right on!
>
> I have realized that this whole trip is like a spiritual vibe that
> is cool in so many ways. Do you really know what you know all the
> time patrick? I got like pulled into mindvox and it is so fucking
> cool. You really do have like a psychedelic temple with so many
> different vibes, it’s all darkness and light but it fucking
> radiates and kicks bro! And I understand some of what you are
> doing, you’re like bringing down a acid trip bro, you’re fucking
> doing that! You are pulling down the other places into the here.
>
> I still don’t know how you do that or what your brain works like
> because I can’t write anything I want to write. It’s like I’m
> stuck. Then I get unstuck when I talk about anything at all except
> for me! And I can’t sort it out like you’re doing, or is that what
> you did and just stopped trying to sort it out and let it run
> wild? Chaos man.
>
> I have got to say I feel fucking great man! I have been so down in
> the dumps for so long I haven’t felt good in a long time. And man
> I feel good! And the first line I got when I loaded Mindvox is it
> man, it is it.
>

Hi Curtis,

Mostly I figure ibogaine unloads you of what’s going on beneath the surface.
If there’s big backlog of stuff waiting to be emptied out, like the recycle
bin, then it tries to dump the lot during the session. This is one reason
why some people trip like crazy and others not so much. I’d get a lot of
emotional stuff for hours then feel really clean for days afterward, like
all the things in the way of me being who I wanted to be were gone.

all the best

Nick

> “Not all who wander are lost” Right on man, right on! And so
> true.
>
> This is not lsd, this feels like something ripped everything out
> of me and put it back in a different way. Fucking intense.
>
> Ibogaine is great man! I would for sure do it again just not right
> now man, not right now.
>
> Curtis
>
>
> __________________________________________________________
> Give your Company an email address like
> ravi @ ravi-exports.com.  Sign up for Rediffmail Pro today!
> Know more. http://www.rediffmailpro.com/signup/
>
>
>

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: List Notes
Date: August 15, 2002 at 2:17:53 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com, drugwar@mindvox.com

Hey,

Just a brief note:  the ibogaine and drugwar lists are now closed.  This
means that people who are not subscribed to the lists cannot send mail
into them.  The letter is not automatically discarded, but goes into a
queue that has to be released by hand, by the moderator(s).  For the
ibogaine list, that’d be me.  For drugwar that’d be Preston, Andria, or
myself.

Basically, this gets rid of spam, and other junk mail, while allowing an
actual, geniune, simulation of a human bein’ type person, to glance at the
message and decide whether or not to toss it.

All of this is relevent because many of youz have several accounts.  When
you read the list with one email address, then attempt to post to it from
another.  Well, it doesn’t vanish, but if the address you are trying to
post from, is not subscribed, then it has to be released by hand.  The
list does not know who you are, unless that account is also subscribed.

This is a long way of explaining why some of your posts do not appear for
several hours, or days.  It isn’t that they’re vanishing, you are just
sending from an account that is NOT subscribed, thus making it necessary
for someone to release the post.

Dat’s it den.

Patrick

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick.sandberg@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine tripping
Date: August 15, 2002 at 2:04:51 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 12:23 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine tripping

hi i did ibogaine on 7/13 and I’m still not right shaky insomnia and yes you trip, i liked it but not the after effects i asked the doc. that treated men for a 2nd dose and he said it would be worse………cause ibogaine has stimulate in it…..so now I’m going to a shrink for pills…..karina

Hi Karina,

Sure a lot of other people have suggested stuff but I’ll stick in my own understanding as well.

With ibogaine the drug is always seeking to clear you out. But if it doesn’t happen totally then it’s good to back it up with body-based therapy. My experience is that the drug puts your stuff into your body, nearer the surface. This can be a real pain at times, as a person may experience higher anxiety, insomnia and related stuff for a while until they do things to move it out, to ship it right out, to fully integrate the experience.

The Bwiti, who use the drug a lot, use dance and marathon space (not sleeping), to back up the drug’s effect. And I’d recommend the same. If you go through the night dancing with friends this is a good way of pushing whatever’s holding you back, and fairly cheap. Otherwise, body-based therapies like bioenergetics, or anything around Lowen or Reich are good bets. Cerebral, talking stuff is only useful as an adjunct in my experience.

Generally I don’t recommend people redose if they haven’t got a result the first time.

Hope this helps

Nick

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick.sandberg@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine tripping
Date: August 15, 2002 at 1:57:28 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: “Curtis Hersch” <crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 8:16 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] ibogaine tripping

I wanted to say hey to everyone I have been not here lately and
having massive experiences.

I weigh 175 and I did 1 gram and whoever said you do not
hallucinate I don’t know what they did because you fucking trip
balls. That is like a freight train bro, you trip and it knocks
you on your ass! I could not walk I was shaky for a day.

Man I will write more I want to share so much but it’s like my
mind will not cooperate right now and I’m tired.

Shout outs to patrick and preston and all the crazies! I’d ask
where you went except I’m watching parts of mindvox blowing open
and reading drugwar. So I know where both of you are spending
time. Man this is so cool. The Drugwar list kicks, you got some
massively smart people there preston, I am reading it when I
opened my mail it’s like holy shit! 400 new messages in a few
days. Right on!

I have realized that this whole trip is like a spiritual vibe that
is cool in so many ways. Do you really know what you know all the
time patrick? I got like pulled into mindvox and it is so fucking
cool. You really do have like a psychedelic temple with so many
different vibes, it’s all darkness and light but it fucking
radiates and kicks bro! And I understand some of what you are
doing, you’re like bringing down a acid trip bro, you’re fucking
doing that! You are pulling down the other places into the here.

I still don’t know how you do that or what your brain works like
because I can’t write anything I want to write. It’s like I’m
stuck. Then I get unstuck when I talk about anything at all except
for me! And I can’t sort it out like you’re doing, or is that what
you did and just stopped trying to sort it out and let it run
wild? Chaos man.

I have got to say I feel fucking great man! I have been so down in
the dumps for so long I haven’t felt good in a long time. And man
I feel good! And the first line I got when I loaded Mindvox is it
man, it is it.

Hi Curtis,

Mostly I figure ibogaine unloads you of what’s going on beneath the surface.
If there’s big backlog of stuff waiting to be emptied out, like the recycle
bin, then it tries to dump the lot during the session. This is one reason
why some people trip like crazy and others not so much. I’d get a lot of
emotional stuff for hours then feel really clean for days afterward, like
all the things in the way of me being who I wanted to be were gone.

all the best

Nick

“Not all who wander are lost” Right on man, right on! And so
true.

This is not lsd, this feels like something ripped everything out
of me and put it back in a different way. Fucking intense.

Ibogaine is great man! I would for sure do it again just not right
now man, not right now.

Curtis

__________________________________________________________
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From: vector6@space.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Faster than light macs
Date: August 14, 2002 at 1:59:12 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Not exactly on topic for ibogaine but as close as
Philip K. Dick anyway 🙂

Apple chip breakthrough confounds physicists
By Andrew Orlowski in London
Posted: 14/08/2002 at 14:52 GMT

A remarkable achievement by Motorola in the new
PowerMac computers promises to set the scientific world
alight.

Apple claims that “the faster-than-light processor
speed gets an additional boost with an advanced cache

memory architecture that provides ultrafast, dedicated

memory with massively enhanced throughput.”

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/3/26681.html

.:vector:.

___________________________________________________________________
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From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] Fw: DPFCA: Good decision in Santa Fe ayahuasca case
Date: August 14, 2002 at 8:34:52 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: Joshua Tinnin
To: Drugwar
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 1:16 AM
Subject: [drugwar] Fw: DPFCA: Good decision in Santa Fe ayahuasca case

Well, well, my home state makes me proud once again …

– jt

—– Original Message —–
From: “Dale Gieringer” <canorml@igc.org>

Hi all –

My friend John Boyd in Albuquerque was lead att’y in this case in which the
plaintiff is a Santa Fe fellow (caucasian) who has a branch of the UDV
church which uses ayahuasca (called “hoasca” here) as a sacrament.

The NM fed. judge has issued a preliminary injunction against the gov. based
on the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, though he didn’t accept 1st
amendment, equal protection and some other claims including that CSA
does not apply to hoasca.

It’s 61 pages long, but I know it will be of interest to some of you.
Attachment: http://www.drugsense.org/temp/UDVOp.pdf

Pamela G. Lichty
Honolulu, HI 96821
phone: 808 735-8001
fax:   808 735-2971
e-mail:plichty@hawaii.rr.com

Vice President
Drug Policy Forum of Hawai`i
www.dpfhi.org

—–Original Message—–
From: John Boyd [mailto:JWB@FBDLAW.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 6:29 AM
To: Don and Pam Lichty (E-mail); Douglas Laycock (E-mail); Joe Boyd
(E-mail)
Subject: FW: UDVOp.pdf

Here is the opinion.

<<UDVOp.pdf>>

—————————————————————————
Attachment: http://www.drugsense.org/temp/UDVOp.pdf

—-
Dale Gieringer (415) 563-5858  // canorml@igc.org
2215-R Market St. #278, San Francisco CA 94114

<]=———————————————————————–=[

[ Moderated by: Preston Peet | http://www.drugwar.com | Andria
E-Mordaunt ]

<]=———————————————————————–=[

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick.sandberg@btinternet.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fw: Iboga, extract and iboagine supply
Date: August 13, 2002 at 10:30:58 AM EDT
Cc: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <ibogaine@lists.calyx.nl>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: Jason Callan
To: info@ibogaine.co.uk
Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 3:49 PM
Subject: Iboga, extract and iboagine supply

Greetings,

I am writing you to inform you we have many Iboga products now available and will be supplying research in Mexico in the near future. We make these products to anyone who seeks them for treatment.

Based in Canada we do not ship to the US but do ship worldwide.
Our prices are the most affordable found anywhere we have been told.
After reading your options for supply page I noticed Maya in the Netherlands was listed and I was not. We have now completed the first stages of our extract production and mass production of the extract will be commencing within a couple weeks. It is a freebase extract which is a full spectrum and includes all alkaloids present in the Tabernanthe iboga plant. We are also looking for treatment centers to supply with our products.
We have rootbark, extract and ibogaine hcl. available.
Please view our site under dried plants or extracts.
http://ethnogarden.yage.net/ibogabark.htm
All prices are in Canadian dollars

I ask if it would be possible to list us on your supply page.
We would greatly appreciate it.

If you have any questions please do not hesitate to contact us and ask.

Thanks for your time.

Jason Callan
Ethnogarden Botanicals Corp.
+(01)705-735-0540
www.ethnogarden.com
ethnogarden@sympatico.ca

From: Andria Efthimiou-Mordaunt <AndriaEM@drugscope.org.uk>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] ibogaine tripping
Date: August 13, 2002 at 10:40:02 AM EDT
To: “‘ibogaine@mindvox.com'” <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Curtis, it may not have ripped everything out, but certainly the serotonin
will have been reset, which will go someway to explaining your current good
mood

Excellent? Now what? Were u taking it for general ‘spiritual growth’ or
detox?

Glad somebody’s happy!

andria

—–Original Message—–
From: Curtis Hersch [mailto:crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com]
Sent: 12 August 2002 08:16
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] ibogaine tripping

I wanted to say hey to everyone I have been not here lately and
having massive experiences.

I weigh 175 and I did 1 gram and whoever said you do not
hallucinate I don’t know what they did because you fucking trip
balls. That is like a freight train bro, you trip and it knocks
you on your ass! I could not walk I was shaky for a day.

Man I will write more I want to share so much but it’s like my
mind will not cooperate right now and I’m tired.

Shout outs to patrick and preston and all the crazies! I’d ask
where you went except I’m watching parts of mindvox blowing open
and reading drugwar. So I know where both of you are spending
time. Man this is so cool. The Drugwar list kicks, you got some
massively smart people there preston, I am reading it when I
opened my mail it’s like holy shit! 400 new messages in a few
days. Right on!

I have realized that this whole trip is like a spiritual vibe that
is cool in so many ways. Do you really know what you know all the
time patrick? I got like pulled into mindvox and it is so fucking
cool. You really do have like a psychedelic temple with so many
different vibes, it’s all darkness and light but it fucking
radiates and kicks bro! And I understand some of what you are
doing, you’re like bringing down a acid trip bro, you’re fucking
doing that! You are pulling down the other places into the here.

I still don’t know how you do that or what your brain works like
because I can’t write anything I want to write. It’s like I’m
stuck. Then I get unstuck when I talk about anything at all except
for me! And I can’t sort it out like you’re doing, or is that what
you did and just stopped trying to sort it out and let it run
wild? Chaos man.

I have got to say I feel fucking great man! I have been so down in
the dumps for so long I haven’t felt good in a long time. And man
I feel good! And the first line I got when I loaded Mindvox is it
man, it is it.

“Not all who wander are lost” Right on man, right on! And so
true.

This is not lsd, this feels like something ripped everything out
of me and put it back in a different way. Fucking intense.

Ibogaine is great man! I would for sure do it again just not right
now man, not right now.

Curtis

__________________________________________________________
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ravi @ ravi-exports.com.  Sign up for Rediffmail Pro today!
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From: Andria Efthimiou-Mordaunt <AndriaEM@drugscope.org.uk>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] ibogaine tripping
Date: August 13, 2002 at 10:37:32 AM EDT
To: “‘ibogaine@mindvox.com'” <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Patrick

Could you please redirect my Ibogaine, and Drugwar e-mail to another e-mail
address; that is AndriaE@aol.com

How r u?

Love a

—–Original Message—–
From: Curtis Hersch [mailto:crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com]
Sent: 12 August 2002 08:16
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] ibogaine tripping

I wanted to say hey to everyone I have been not here lately and
having massive experiences.

I weigh 175 and I did 1 gram and whoever said you do not
hallucinate I don’t know what they did because you fucking trip
balls. That is like a freight train bro, you trip and it knocks
you on your ass! I could not walk I was shaky for a day.

Man I will write more I want to share so much but it’s like my
mind will not cooperate right now and I’m tired.

Shout outs to patrick and preston and all the crazies! I’d ask
where you went except I’m watching parts of mindvox blowing open
and reading drugwar. So I know where both of you are spending
time. Man this is so cool. The Drugwar list kicks, you got some
massively smart people there preston, I am reading it when I
opened my mail it’s like holy shit! 400 new messages in a few
days. Right on!

I have realized that this whole trip is like a spiritual vibe that
is cool in so many ways. Do you really know what you know all the
time patrick? I got like pulled into mindvox and it is so fucking
cool. You really do have like a psychedelic temple with so many
different vibes, it’s all darkness and light but it fucking
radiates and kicks bro! And I understand some of what you are
doing, you’re like bringing down a acid trip bro, you’re fucking
doing that! You are pulling down the other places into the here.

I still don’t know how you do that or what your brain works like
because I can’t write anything I want to write. It’s like I’m
stuck. Then I get unstuck when I talk about anything at all except
for me! And I can’t sort it out like you’re doing, or is that what
you did and just stopped trying to sort it out and let it run
wild? Chaos man.

I have got to say I feel fucking great man! I have been so down in
the dumps for so long I haven’t felt good in a long time. And man
I feel good! And the first line I got when I loaded Mindvox is it
man, it is it.

“Not all who wander are lost” Right on man, right on! And so
true.

This is not lsd, this feels like something ripped everything out
of me and put it back in a different way. Fucking intense.

Ibogaine is great man! I would for sure do it again just not right
now man, not right now.

Curtis

__________________________________________________________
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ravi @ ravi-exports.com.  Sign up for Rediffmail Pro today!
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From: “Joshua Tinnin” <krinklyfig@myrealbox.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine tripping
Date: August 12, 2002 at 6:10:32 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: “Joshua Tinnin” <krinklyfig@myrealbox.com>

—– Original Message —–
From: “Carrie Rollins” <carrierollins@yahoo.com>

A teensy question here, looking at the ahem sketches
drew ross made the wackycrackheads ibogaine is
hilarious but just what is the deal here with all the
Philip K. Dick. Now He’s doing it too. Mindvox has the
valis and in Philip K. Dick we trust tag lines, but I
thought that was a joke. You aren’t joking. I know
Dana is obsessed with Philip K. Dick, soooooooooo,
without dissing any of you at all what does a
schizophrenic science fiction writer have to do with
ibogaine?????

Have you ever read PDK?

That’s supposed to be PKD …

– jt

From: “Joshua Tinnin” <krinklyfig@myrealbox.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine tripping
Date: August 12, 2002 at 6:08:26 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: “Carrie Rollins” <carrierollins@yahoo.com>

A teensy question here, looking at the ahem sketches
drew ross made the wackycrackheads ibogaine is
hilarious but just what is the deal here with all the
Philip K. Dick. Now He’s doing it too. Mindvox has the
valis and in Philip K. Dick we trust tag lines, but I
thought that was a joke. You aren’t joking. I know
Dana is obsessed with Philip K. Dick, soooooooooo,
without dissing any of you at all what does a
schizophrenic science fiction writer have to do with
ibogaine?????

Have you ever read PDK?

– jt

From: vector6@space.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine tripping
Date: August 12, 2002 at 5:20:03 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

That’s phat, that is awesome. Sacred Texts is insane, I
think you have the full collection of madness there all
right Patrick 😉

Drew drew Ubik, not Valis. Dana is going to have to
have a talk with him, he’s using the wrong philip k.
dick books, what is his problem? 😉

Wackycrackheads copping ibogaine is kewl, is a dead cat
native bwiti ibopriest attire? 😉

.:vector:.

On Mon, 12 August 2002, Carrie Rollins wrote:

Hi Curtis! That sounds great, write more about how you
feel when you can do that! 🙂 You didn’t have a habit
when you did it right?

I haven’t been on the computer very much either,
having a good summer. I’ve had the same experiences
with mindvox as you but taking the experiences the
ravers write all over the other lists i guess a lot of
people load up the mindvox temple and watch it melt
and spin with great frequency 🙂

Speaking of that these are hilarious 🙂

http://www.mindvox.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/MindVoxUI.woa/wa/staticpage%3fpagename=Sacred

Dave, you painted the purple stuff Patrick is always
talking about! Beautiful! Love that whole section.

A teensy question here, looking at the ahem sketches
drew ross made the wackycrackheads ibogaine is
hilarious but just what is the deal here with all the
Philip K. Dick. Now He’s doing it too. Mindvox has the
valis and in Philip K. Dick we trust tag lines, but I
thought that was a joke. You aren’t joking. I know
Dana is obsessed with Philip K. Dick, soooooooooo,
without dissing any of you at all what does a
schizophrenic science fiction writer have to do with
ibogaine?????

I had to ask that.

-carrie

___________________________________________________________________
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From: Carrie Rollins <carrierollins@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine tripping
Date: August 12, 2002 at 4:32:51 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Curtis! That sounds great, write more about how you
feel when you can do that! 🙂 You didn’t have a habit
when you did it right?

I haven’t been on the computer very much either,
having a good summer. I’ve had the same experiences
with mindvox as you but taking the experiences the
ravers write all over the other lists i guess a lot of
people load up the mindvox temple and watch it melt
and spin with great frequency 🙂

Speaking of that these are hilarious 🙂

http://www.mindvox.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/MindVoxUI.woa/wa/staticpage%3fpagename=Sacred

Dave, you painted the purple stuff Patrick is always
talking about! Beautiful! Love that whole section.

A teensy question here, looking at the ahem sketches
drew ross made the wackycrackheads ibogaine is
hilarious but just what is the deal here with all the
Philip K. Dick. Now He’s doing it too. Mindvox has the
valis and in Philip K. Dick we trust tag lines, but I
thought that was a joke. You aren’t joking. I know
Dana is obsessed with Philip K. Dick, soooooooooo,
without dissing any of you at all what does a
schizophrenic science fiction writer have to do with
ibogaine?????

I had to ask that.

-carrie

— Curtis  Hersch <crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com>
wrote:

I wanted to say hey to everyone I have been not here
lately and
having massive experiences.

I weigh 175 and I did 1 gram and whoever said you do
not
hallucinate I don’t know what they did because you
fucking trip
balls. That is like a freight train bro, you trip
and it knocks
you on your ass! I could not walk I was shaky for a
day.

Man I will write more I want to share so much but
it’s like my
mind will not cooperate right now and I’m tired.

Shout outs to patrick and preston and all the
crazies! I’d ask
where you went except I’m watching parts of mindvox
blowing open
and reading drugwar. So I know where both of you are
spending
time. Man this is so cool. The Drugwar list kicks,
you got some
massively smart people there preston, I am reading
it when I
opened my mail it’s like holy shit! 400 new messages
in a few
days. Right on!

I have realized that this whole trip is like a
spiritual vibe that
is cool in so many ways. Do you really know what you
know all the
time patrick? I got like pulled into mindvox and it
is so fucking
cool. You really do have like a psychedelic temple
with so many
different vibes, it’s all darkness and light but it
fucking
radiates and kicks bro! And I understand some of
what you are
doing, you’re like bringing down a acid trip bro,
you’re fucking
doing that! You are pulling down the other places
into the here.

I still don’t know how you do that or what your
brain works like
because I can’t write anything I want to write. It’s
like I’m
stuck. Then I get unstuck when I talk about anything
at all except
for me! And I can’t sort it out like you’re doing,
or is that what
you did and just stopped trying to sort it out and
let it run
wild? Chaos man.

I have got to say I feel fucking great man! I have
been so down in
the dumps for so long I haven’t felt good in a long
time. And man
I feel good! And the first line I got when I loaded
Mindvox is it
man, it is it.

“Not all who wander are lost” Right on man, right
on! And so
true.

This is not lsd, this feels like something ripped
everything out
of me and put it back in a different way. Fucking
intense.

Ibogaine is great man! I would for sure do it again
just not right
now man, not right now.

Curtis

__________________________________________________
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HotJobs – Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com

From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: [IBOGAINE] side effects
Date: August 12, 2002 at 1:26:29 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@lists.calyx.nl
Cc: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hang in there…

as previously posted expect light sleep patterns for up to a couple months this
can seem frustrating but be grateful for the sleep you can get and if you can’t
sleep try to rest as much as possible…

*****some folks find melatonin helpful***** [it helped me]

As far as not feeling right, that just takes time. some research has shown that
drug addicts who quit using go thru an 18 month period where the brain resets,
detoxes and unscrambles, which is about the same amount of time it takes
someone to fully recover from brain surgery.

My experience… I thought I was feeling ok after 1 month then at 3 months then
at 6 months i thought i was feeling better and so on but post acute withdrawl
can last a while, especially for opiate addicts like us and cocaine addicts as
well. It was like 14-16 months when I really began to feel normal again. But
everyone is different, don’t let my time table discourage you.

Take a lot of baths, get excercise, vitamins, healthy food and rest. after a
heavy pill habit you might want to do a bidopholus/acidophulus boost, get that
stomach functioning nicely again.

and hang in there, i’ve been right where you are now. it does get better.

if your daily doses are correct, it sounds like you had a screaming habit.

attbi.com? Bay Area?

-gamma

p.s. you might want to subscribe to the ibo list at :

ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com

— Captain 357 <captain357@attbi.com> wrote:
I am four days post Ibogaine treatment for a four year addiction to
percription pain killers.  Mainly Oxycontin and Perkocett with just about
everythiing else available thrown into the mix along the way.    Minimal
Methadone.  Approximate daily dosages of consistant main drugs used one year
before Ibogaine: Oxycontin 800-1280 mg and 60-1500 mg Perkocett.  The last
dose of Ibogaine, taken five days ago, was 1.3 g hcl.  Understanding that
everyone reacts differently, in general, how long should I expect to not
sleep right and generally not feel right?  Thanks.

_______________________________________________
This list hosted in The Netherlands by
Calyx Internet B.V. http://www.calyx.nl
_______________________________________________

_______________________________________________
ibogaine mailing list
ibogaine@lists.calyx.nl
https://lists.calyx.nl/lists/listinfo/ibogaine

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From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine tripping
Date: August 12, 2002 at 1:07:22 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

thank you you are right about the pills but that’s the only time i’m not hurting……i go to the doc, today i’ll see what he says…….

From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine tripping
Date: August 12, 2002 at 1:05:03 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— Mzzthangg13@aol.com wrote:
hi i did ibogaine on 7/13 and I’m still not right shaky insomnia and yes you
trip, i liked it but not the after effects i asked the doc. that treated men
for a 2nd dose and he said it would be worse………cause ibogaine has
stimulate in it…..so now I’m going to a shrink for pills…..karina

Ibo can change your sleep patterns, expect light sleep for up to 6-8 weeks. But
man I was pretty happy to be getting 4-5 hours of sleep right after detoxing
with Ibo from methadone, prior detox attempts left me with out a single moment
of sleep for 2-4 weeks. and that is HELL.

oh yeah, and caution on the pills.

-gamma

__________________________________________________
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HotJobs – Search Thousands of New Jobs
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From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine tripping
Date: August 12, 2002 at 7:23:29 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hi i did ibogaine on 7/13 and I’m still not right shaky insomnia and yes you trip, i liked it but not the after effects i asked the doc. that treated men for a 2nd dose and he said it would be worse………cause ibogaine has stimulate in it…..so now I’m going to a shrink for pills…..karina

From: “Curtis Hersch” <crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] ibogaine tripping
Date: August 12, 2002 at 3:16:11 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I wanted to say hey to everyone I have been not here lately and having massive experiences.

I weigh 175 and I did 1 gram and whoever said you do not hallucinate I don’t know what they did because you fucking trip balls. That is like a freight train bro, you trip and it knocks you on your ass! I could not walk I was shaky for a day.

Man I will write more I want to share so much but it’s like my mind will not cooperate right now and I’m tired.

Shout outs to patrick and preston and all the crazies! I’d ask where you went except I’m watching parts of mindvox blowing open and reading drugwar. So I know where both of you are spending time. Man this is so cool. The Drugwar list kicks, you got some massively smart people there preston, I am reading it when I opened my mail it’s like holy shit! 400 new messages in a few days. Right on!

I have realized that this whole trip is like a spiritual vibe that is cool in so many ways. Do you really know what you know all the time patrick? I got like pulled into mindvox and it is so fucking cool. You really do have like a psychedelic temple with so many different vibes, it’s all darkness and light but it fucking radiates and kicks bro! And I understand some of what you are doing, you’re like bringing down a acid trip bro, you’re fucking doing that! You are pulling down the other places into the here.

I still don’t know how you do that or what your brain works like because I can’t write anything I want to write. It’s like I’m stuck. Then I get unstuck when I talk about anything at all except for me! And I can’t sort it out like you’re doing, or is that what you did and just stopped trying to sort it out and let it run wild? Chaos man.

I have got to say I feel fucking great man! I have been so down in the dumps for so long I haven’t felt good in a long time. And man I feel good! And the first line I got when I loaded Mindvox is it man, it is it.

“Not all who wander are lost” Right on man, right on! And so true.

This is not lsd, this feels like something ripped everything out of me and put it back in a different way. Fucking intense.

Ibogaine is great man! I would for sure do it again just not right now man, not right now.

Curtis

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From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: Preston On Black Op Radio
Date: August 11, 2002 at 5:16:02 PM EDT
To: “Brian Downing Quig” <quig@dcia.com>
Cc: cia-drugs@yahoogroups.com, bushcoup2000@yahoogroups.com, danviets@justice.com, Blair Anderson <blair@technologist.com>, warcry@indymedia.org, bmurphy420@msn.com, cannabisaction@yahoogroups.com, mayday@yahoogroups.com, FLCAN@yahoogroups.com, PotSmokinSwingers@yahoogroups.com, maryjanesretreat@yahoogroups.com, eco man <tents444@yahoo.com>, Richard Lake <rlake@mapinc.org>, Sanho Tree <stree@igc.org>, Michael Novick <osowatomie@hotmail.com>, “Roger Bunn” <policy.office@mihra.org>, “Dave Michon” <dajalyn@charter.net>, “Mr. Rob Rob” <damnrobrob@yahoo.com>, ibogaine@mindvox.com, dang@ssdp.org, Jay Blotcher <jblotcher@hvc.rr.com>, clear@harmreduction.org, crmoynihan@yahoo.com, BrennerL@aol.com, pdr <pdr@echonyc.com>, “Andrew Grice” <kingfelix@mediaone.net>, mruppert@copvcia.com, DogBreath100@aol.com, saltcom@aol.com, rumsey@newsday.com, Chris Conrad <chris@chrisconrad.com>, ekwaus@yahoo.com, Dana Larsen <muggles2@cannabisculture.com>, Bridgeviet@hotmail.com, Edward Jahn <ejahn@barnard.edu>, rcote@nyc.rr.com, “clifford thornton” <efficacy@email.msn.com>, dschechter@globalvision.org (Danny Schecter), noprob@pop.mindspring.com, “Shaw, Hal” <Shaw@housingworks.org>, annnorth@earthlink.net, siamgemini@hotmail.com, “Scotty J.” <scottyj@legalize.com>, Michael Petrelis <MPetrelis@aol.com>, “ACT UP DC” <actupdc@aol.com>, Expert53@aol.com, “Mario Lap” <mario@lap.nl>, John Sheridan <hippo@concentric.net>, cbennet@pot-tv.net, “User’s Voice” <Usersvoice.jmt@dial.pipex.com>, gracenichols@hotmail.com, Reverendbillynyc@aol.com, Jesse Silverman <jvsilverman@yahoo.com>, Shane Collins <shane@gn.apc.org>, “Ann” <amccormick@home.com>, Bonnie <rabbit@cownow.com>, pieman@pieman.org, “C. Goodwin” <uravampire@mindspring.com>, “Starchild Rising” <ionesolis@hotmail.com>, Les Simpson <less@timeoutny.com>, Reverendbillynyc@aol.com, rweir@edit.nydailynews.com, cguttman@yahoo.com, Joel Landy <joellandy@yahoo.com>, Jessflagg@aol.com, “Gloria Guillo” <theringmaster@earthlink.net>, “Voter March” <lposner1@nyc.rr.com>, meyersjoel@yahoo.com, “C. Acosta” <political@nyc.rr.com>, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com, “Alan Weberman” <ajw@nyc.rr.com>, pderienzo@garynull.com, dancegroove@nyc.rr.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Wow Preston!!  This was a great interview with Len Osanic!  I encourage
everyone to listen to all three segments.

Preston’s interview covered all the bases and I was grateful for its state
of the art appraisal of all aspects of the drug war nationally and
internationally.  This presentation is an excellent example of the point I
was trying to make with Richard Lake.  Preston did not pull any punches on
the DEA, the CIA or the Bush family dominate involvement in the narcotics
trade.  Is there anyone here who does not feel this is in fact the most
important issue of the drug problem?

Now since Richard invokes the name of Joseph Goebels in his accusation that
I am a propagandist, let me enlighten him on the basics of propaganda.
Effective propaganda is not all lies.  Effective propaganda includes as
much truth as possible so that the most important issue can be twisted or
omitted.

Please will someone find some streaming audio of Ethan Nadelmann so that we
can compare it to this excellent interview of Preston’s.  I warrant that
Ethan will always omit THE MOST IMPORTANT THING.

Now Richard, since you apparently think it is beneath your dignity to
answer my factual questions of the past,  perhaps you can answer this one.

Do you think the fact that Nadelmann has worked as a consultant for the
DEA, has written books for them and interviewed hundreds of DEA agents has
anything to do with his SEE NO EVIL, HEAR NO EVIL, SPEAK NO EVIL policy
toward the DEA, Asa Hutchenson, the COCAINE CONTRAS or the SKULL AND
BONES/OPIUM CARTEL Bush family?

If I am a propagandist than Nadelmann is 10,000 times the propagandist that
I am.

Richard, I think an answer to this question is required.  I also think an
apology is the right thing to do.  Certainly it is embarrassing to
acknowledge that you and the entire marijuana activist community were
MARCHING TO THE BEAT OF THE ENEMY’S DRUM.  As for myself I am never more
grateful than when someone has shown where I am wrong.

Brian Downing Quig

Just a note: if NORML, Nadelman etc are going to engage in a campaign
of character assassination against the New Left on behalf of the Cato
Institute, how can we ever refer anyone to them to work on the Barney
Frank Bill, for instance? That is, if the outcome of referring people
to National NORML is that they poison the well, and the very  people
we referred to them stop taking our phonecalls  (which is the upshot
in most cases with anyone Nadelman or Keith Stroup-connected?)

Dana/cnw

p.s.: what happened to yr phone?

From: “Alison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] What’s this about no hallucinations?
Date: August 11, 2002 at 7:20:17 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks.      Someone  else just pointed out the dates on my computer as
well.     I hadn’t even noticed.
Shows how  much attention  I pay .    Hopefully I have got it changed now.
….Allison
—–Original Message—–
From: Jellking <jellking@yahoo.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Date: Sunday, 11 August 2002 10:36
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] What’s this about no hallucinations?

Hey, allison, sorry I thought I was responding to something you had
written.  But ya know, you need to reset your computer’s calendar, or
it might need a new battery, as your emails are dated September,
2002.  good wishes, Jane

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From: Jellking <jellking@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Bishop Pike and the Transmigration
Date: August 10, 2002 at 9:21:27 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“sorry it took me so long to reply
I could not locate any info
I will continue to ask”

Wow! a haiku!  Thanks! Love, Jane

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From: Jellking <jellking@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] What’s this about no hallucinations?
Date: August 10, 2002 at 6:36:01 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey, allison, sorry I thought I was responding to something you had
written.  But ya know, you need to reset your computer’s calendar, or
it might need a new battery, as your emails are dated September,
2002.  good wishes, Jane

__________________________________________________
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From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: Bishop Pike and the Transmigration
Date: August 10, 2002 at 5:02:26 PM EDT
To: Suziknkbell@aol.com
Cc: philipkdick@yahoogroups.com, dansmith@clark.net, lensman@stardrive.org, hward@wineshopper.com, Mark@k-dunn.freeserve.co.uk, IMDJam@cs.com, gbekkum@mediaone.net, Gary@osborn-day.freeserve.co.uk, gschwart@u.arizona.edu, e-merrill2@ti.com, “Bob Ezergailis” <morpheal@bserv.com>, “cynthia ford” <maruta@wco.com>, “G. G. Ford” <swimp@shaw.ca>, <brumac@compuserve.com>, <yokatta@oxy.edu>, <kklingon@cwcom.net>, <cyrano@aqua.ocn.ne.jp>, “Adrian” <afme@ihug.co.nz>, dewatson@sunflower.com, CloudRider@aol.com, JagdishM@aol.com, phylegyas@hotmail.com, schwann@webtrance.co.za, ibogalab@hotmail.com, zentarot@hotmail.com, Paul DeRienzo <pdr@echonyc.com>, Stews@radiks.net, foozleman@worldnet.att.net, bmasel@tds.net, heff01@email.msn.com, kingfelix@mediaone.net, PTPEET@cs.com, luxefair@bellsouth.net, cardboard_dada@yahoo.com, prophets@maui.net, m.pilkington@virgin.net, PCLARK@JJHILL.ORG, delaneyw@shasta.com, Edward Jahn <ejahn@barnard.edu>, derlock@mailexcite.com, “Andre Welling” <andre.welling@db.com>, Mitchel Cohen <mitchelcohen@mindspring.com>, “MUTANEX Command HAWAI’I” <mutanex@aloha.net>, miriamwhite420@hotmail.com, ibogaine@mindvox.com, Nick Sandberg <nick.sandberg@virgin.net>, George Clayton Johnson <hempjack@earthlink.net>, axiom@greatmystery.org, dancegroove@nyc.rr.com, “warcry@indymedia.org” <warcrycinema@yahoo.com>, “Jay Statzer” <jstatzer@qtm.net>, “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

sorry it took me so long to reply
I could not locate any info
I will continue to ask

Suzanne

I know there has to be some stuff written on Pike that was not by PKD.

I just know it. But I can’t remember.

From: stonedhead@popmail.com
Subject: [ibogaine] 2.treatment
Date: August 9, 2002 at 11:46:12 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

female 25 years.
53 kg.
8 yrs. h addicted
1 yr. methadone
1. treatment:
1.day 550mg ibohcl
3.day 300mg ibohcl
results: again withdrawals and cravings (but no more use of any opiads)

now it has been two months and the second treatment is on its way for psychological use. if you have some suggestion on the dose it would be very nice. do you know the dose of traumatic visions, she had no visions at the first treatment. shall we divide it or give her a full dose? thanks.

………………………………
Get your own free email account from
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From: CGEOBET@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] unsubscribe me please
Date: August 9, 2002 at 11:04:50 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thank you!

From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] For Karina
Date: August 9, 2002 at 10:36:07 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

no they are no addictive…….i asked for xanax or valium he said no……

From: Andria Efthimiou-Mordaunt <AndriaEM@drugscope.org.uk>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] For Karina
Date: August 9, 2002 at 10:36:00 AM EDT
To: “‘ibogaine@mindvox.com'” <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Have u asked that doc if these drugs are addictive?
—–Original Message—–
From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com [mailto:Mzzthangg13@aol.com]
Sent: 09 August 2002 15:31
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] For Karina

thanks for the hope.. yes the pills are for sleep and nerves……i emailed the doc to see what else i can do……i hate this  karina

From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] For Karina
Date: August 9, 2002 at 10:31:20 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

thanks for the hope.. yes the pills are for sleep and nerves……i emailed the doc to see what else i can do……i hate this  karina

From: Andria Efthimiou-Mordaunt <AndriaEM@drugscope.org.uk>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] For Karina
Date: August 9, 2002 at 10:30:58 AM EDT
To: “‘ibogaine@mindvox.com'” <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Just want you to know that there is light at the end of this tunnel; u will feel ggod soon – indeed, soon u might just find u have so much energy, u don’t know what to do with it!
Are the meds the doctors have u on downers Karina?
—–Original Message—–
From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com [mailto:Mzzthangg13@aol.com]
Sent: 09 August 2002 14:41
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] For Karina

hi thank you for writing…..i just don’t feel right nothing hurts….just no energy…..as a matter of fact i am going food shoppping with my husband later……..but he’s really good he understands………..i have been taking baths…and being on the computer helps…….karina

From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] For Karina
Date: August 9, 2002 at 9:41:28 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hi thank you for writing…..i just don’t feel right nothing hurts….just no energy…..as a matter of fact i am going food shoppping with my husband later……..but he’s really good he understands………..i have been taking baths…and being on the computer helps…….karina

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] male-female?
Date: August 9, 2002 at 8:50:35 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— stonedhead@popmail.com wrote:
i have read that females are more sensitive to
ibogaine. can you help me on expandind this and tell
me the differencies between human male-female taking
ibogaine.

Dosages are 20% less by weight for a woman than a man.
In rats I recall some differences in how ibogaine
processed in the body between males and females. Yes,
they seem more sensitive to iboga, more open to it,
seems it (the visions) comes easier to them than for
men. Keep in mind though that everyone is different,
you could easily find a man who can take half what a
particular woman would take and get twice as far… It
is also more dangerous (toxic) for a woman, up till
last year the only deaths reported were in women. You
would also want to be more cautious with a slightly
built/extra thin man or woman and give them less iboga
(for the gal that would be on top of the 20% less).

Ibogaine is some vigorous stuff, use with caution.

That was my quick and dirty version.

FOLLOW PROTOCOL

Brett

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From: “Alison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: [ibogaine] For Karina
Date: September 9, 2002 at 7:11:36 AM EDT
To: “ibogaine” <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hang in there.    Sounds like your doing so well.  Have you got your husband or a really good friend that knows what your going through that will cook you some meals etc.  I know when I went through detoxing myself, I will always appreciate & remember a great friend whose ex-husband was an addict.  She really understood what I was dealing with and was so good.
She helped look after my daughter and cooked a meal for me every evening and just handed to me.  If I had had to cook myself something I don’t think I would have bothered at all and decent food and fresh veg etc helped my body to be become healthy.  I stayed away from methadone and heroin/morphine etc etc. for 2 whole years and I reckon her support had a lot to do with it.  Also as someone else said, lots of baths or showers and rest, both physically and mentally.  Pressure and stress are real time bombs when your down and trying to heal yourself. I found myself winding up just having to think about driving to the shop to buy groceries I needed and there were days I just threw a pair of jeans and a wooly over my nightie and squashed a hat on my head to try and hide the fact that I’d grovelled out of bed without bothering to wash or brush my hair.
Plus hoping I didn’t run into anyone I would have to be polite to cos that was the last thing I could cope with.
Good luck and you might not think so now but it feels so so good when you get past the shit and start feeling healthy and like a whole person.  Music, food, enjoying things and feeling good in yourself without all the effort running around to find the gear and money to do it.   Like taking off handcuffs and feeling free…… Allison

From: stonedhead@popmail.com
Subject: [ibogaine] male-female?
Date: August 9, 2002 at 5:56:54 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

i have read that females are more sensitive to ibogaine. can you help me on expandind this and tell me the differencies between human male-female taking ibogaine.

………………………………
Get your own free email account from
http://www.popmail.com

From: Jellking <jellking@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Karina and methadeone kicking/chamomile
Date: August 8, 2002 at 9:45:04 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Bill, I should have said, “might” bring on, not “will.”  But I had
to take a partner to the hospital once, and he had really bad
hayfever, because his throat swelled and closed, after he had some
cham tea.  The doc said chamomile did it, as cham and hay are
related.  Jane

__________________________________________________
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From: Bill Ross <ross@cgl.ucsf.EDU>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Karina and methadeone kicking/chamomile
Date: August 8, 2002 at 8:49:38 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi, Bill sez, “Heavy doses of chamomile are also good.”  But not if
you suffer from hayfever, especially if you have really bad hayfever.
Chamomile, even in a mild tea, will bring on all those symptoms!
Jane

Is this true for all/most hayfever sufferers?

Bill

From: Jellking <jellking@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Karina and methadeone kicking/chamomile
Date: August 8, 2002 at 8:01:30 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi, Bill sez, “Heavy doses of chamomile are also good.”  But not if
you suffer from hayfever, especially if you have really bad hayfever.
Chamomile, even in a mild tea, will bring on all those symptoms!
Jane

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From: Bill Ross <ross@cgl.ucsf.EDU>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Karina and methadeone kicking
Date: August 7, 2002 at 4:45:10 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

cat’s claw (easier to find in stores) for immune system
strengthening and pain relief.

I meant anti-inflammatory, not sure about pain relief.

Bill

From: Bill Ross <ross@cgl.ucsf.EDU>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Karina and methadeone kicking
Date: August 7, 2002 at 4:43:04 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

For sleep/relaxing I have found 2 rainforest herbs that seem
to help: mulungu and cat’s claw. Mulungu is for relaxing/sleep
and cat’s claw (easier to find in stores) for immune system
strengthening and pain relief. Just added the cat’s claw last
night for the 1st time & slept late which is very rare.

Heavy doses of chamomile are also good.

Bill Ross

From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Karina and methadeone kicking
Date: August 7, 2002 at 11:46:49 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

i am going to ask for trazadone i have been taking that for yrs……..it’s not addicting……i’m getting better but last night not too much sleep……….i just want to  feel “right” whatever that is ………ur friend karina

From: Andria Efthimiou-Mordaunt <AndriaEM@drugscope.org.uk>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Re: Karina and methadeone kicking
Date: August 7, 2002 at 11:41:27 AM EDT
To: “‘ibogaine@mindvox.com'” <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

If they are addictive, try hard not to get addicted to them. I was recently prescribed a sleeper, and I have just cut the dose down to 1 (instead of 2) before bedtime as I don’t really wanna be addicted to anything else either. Just something to consider. But if u do, u can come off now that u know this is possible..
Strength and affection
andria
—–Original Message—–
From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com [mailto:Mzzthangg13@aol.com]
Sent: 07 August 2002 15:07
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Karina and methadeone kicking

ambien is for sleep ans vistaril is for nerves…….sorry bout youe hubby…….i had a bad night not too much sleep i am probally getting use to the ambien  i’ll have to take 2……..karina

From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Karina and methadeone kicking
Date: August 7, 2002 at 10:06:57 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

ambien is for sleep ans vistaril is for nerves…….sorry bout youe hubby…….i had a bad night not too much sleep i am probally getting use to the ambien  i’ll have to take 2……..karina

From: “Beth Lee-Herbert” <gaia_love420@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Re: Karina and methadeone kicking
Date: August 7, 2002 at 9:14:24 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

i came really close last week to getting married just for the fuck of it, just for the novelty.  we went down to the courthouse, to gather information on what we’d need to do.  it only costs as much as a bag (and what a greater investment in the future!!!)  it was either a really punk idea or a really stupid one.  the difference between punk and stupid can be very small.  i have given myself license to do anything i want to do, besides dope.  i can howl at the moon, give my boyfriend a blowjob in the FBI building parking lot, drive too fast and listen to music too loud.
FREEDOM FROM SLAVERY

>From: Andria Efthimiou-Mordaunt

>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>To: “‘ibogaine@mindvox.com'”

>Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Re: Karina and methadeone kicking

>Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 12:25:01 +0100

>

>I wish my husband was still alive; they can be pretty cool, husbands! I

>highly recommend them to hetero gals brave enough 2 take them on; pretty

>long term stuff though, and sometimes hard work. But when u add it all up,

>it’s probabaly better to have one than not, or at least a life-partner as

>they call them in America.

>

>What’s Vistaril and Amben Karina

>

>Andria

>

>—–Original Message—–

>From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com [mailto:Mzzthangg13@aol.com]

>Sent: 07 August 2002 04:50

>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Karina and methadeone kicking

>

>

>hi the doc got me on vistaril & amben for sleep believe me i fight everday

>not to do something stupid believe it or not i llove my husband so much

>that’s what is keeping me straight………before i diid’nt care but my

>hubby treats me like a queen……it goes both ways i treat him the same

>way……….karina

>

Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: Click Here

From: “Alison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] What’s this about no hallucinations?
Date: September 7, 2002 at 8:34:12 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Was your  message in reply to my e-mail about hallucinating or something
else.   Everyones chemistry is so different, which is why some people like
drugs, others alcohol etc.and yet others are into their own ideas of what
they want or enjoy.  I just said I hate the hallucinating thing but I know
lots of people love it.
Each to their own.  Whats good for one is not always good for all.   I just
get real scared & paranoid in those sort of situations but thats just me & I
feel OK with it cos I know what myself reacts to and how….Allison
—–Original Message—–
From: Jellking <jellking@yahoo.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Date: Wednesday, 7 August 2002 16:13
Subject: [ibogaine] What’s this about no hallucinations?

Hi, I really beg to differ re no hallucinating.  I will admit I only
hallucinated (properly, i.e. seeing stuff that wasn’t there, as
opposed to watching a film on the wall) late in the game, i.e at
about I think 25  hours, but even before then, My EYES WERE WIDE
OPEN.  and I saw a lot of stuff.  (Bwiti said to me, “open your eyes,
so you can hear me!  and I laughed alittle, and thought, how William
Blake, then he roared, OPEN THEM!  And I did, and wow!)Now, I
actually complained about this a bit, as I’d been told there’d be
none of this real hallucination, but then when I went to the john,
and the linoleum floor turned to liquid and began to rise up to my
knees, etc., I just didn’t care anymore who was right or wrong about
what would/could happen; it was so much fun at athat poing (after so
much  gruelling stuff before).  Jane

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From: Andria Efthimiou-Mordaunt <AndriaEM@drugscope.org.uk>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Re: Karina and methadeone kicking
Date: August 7, 2002 at 7:25:01 AM EDT
To: “‘ibogaine@mindvox.com'” <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I wish my husband was still alive; they can be pretty cool, husbands! I highly recommend them to hetero gals brave enough 2 take them on; pretty long term stuff though, and sometimes hard work. But when u add it all up, it’s probabaly better to have one than not, or at least a life-partner as they call them in America.

What’s Vistaril and Amben Karina

Andria
—–Original Message—–
From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com [mailto:Mzzthangg13@aol.com]
Sent: 07 August 2002 04:50
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Karina and methadeone kicking

hi the doc got me on  vistaril & amben for sleep believe me i fight  everday not to do something stupid believe it or not i llove my husband  so much that’s what is keeping me straight………before i diid’nt care  but my hubby treats me like a queen……it goes both ways i treat him the same way……….karina

From: Andria Efthimiou-Mordaunt <AndriaEM@drugscope.org.uk>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Re: Karina and methadeone kicking
Date: August 7, 2002 at 7:13:54 AM EDT
To: “‘ibogaine@mindvox.com'” <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Good point; very good actually, and one that many people extol. You can’t give up all your protections at once.. well, I don’t think it;s a good idea UNLESS of course, u replace them immediately

But what if, like me your lungs are constantly breaking into infections, and almost caving in completely!?

Thanx 2 y’all 4 discusiing smoking; I’m much more vulnerable with this habit than I think I ever was shooting dope…(not that that had too many positive points either!!!)

But I would like to say that it is very sunny in London 2day, and I am at peace with my computer

Love andria
—–Original Message—–
From: Beth Lee-Herbert [mailto:gaia_love420@hotmail.com]
Sent: 06 August 2002 21:50
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Karina and methadeone kicking

the thing about cigs is that at least they take a long time to kill you, other things aren’t so patient for your soul.  i was dopesick at my parents house and my sister said to me quite cheerfully, ‘so when are you going to quit smoking’  fucking one thing at a time.  cigs are so pointless, you smoke to continue the habit.  just for today, i’m satisfied being clean.  one vice at a time!

>From: “Patrick K. Kroupa”

>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Karina and methadeone kicking

>Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 14:34:56 -0400

>

>On [Tue, Aug 06, 2002 at 11:37:24AM -0700], [Brett Calabrese] wrote:

>

>| Patrick,

>|

>| I am glad to see you reached the denial stage of your

>| nicotine addiction.

>

>Oh absolutely. Unfortunately, being FAMILIAR with addiction, I really,

>strongly, highly suspect, I will take no action whatsoever until the day I

>go to the gym and discover I can’t breath, or my heart hurts… At which

>point I will prolly re-evaluate my choice to keep smoking and just find

>something else to do.

>

>|

>| “> I’m gonna go light a cigarette now”

>|

>| I know the feeling, can’t imagine myself doing it but

>| it wouldn’t take much (like 1 cigarette) to change

>| that real fast. Just like real drugs…

>

>Yeah, I have vague plans to stop smoking the next time I dose with

>ibogaine; cuz I mean, for me, every time I dose I cannot smoke. I light a

>cigarette afterwards and literally vomit. I have to WORK BACK UP using

>menthols, half a cigarette at a time.

>

>Being real I am forced to conclude that I really don’t care, because I

>still haven’t exited the Indestructable stage of life, and it hasn’t had

>any negative effect on me. Therefore, I just don’t care enough to exert

>the effort required to tune that headchange.

>

>Look I LIKE smoking. It makes me happy. Really, it does. I think, I’m

>pretty sure.

>

>Patrick

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From: Andria Efthimiou-Mordaunt <AndriaEM@drugscope.org.uk>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Re: Karina and methadeone kicking
Date: August 7, 2002 at 7:10:26 AM EDT
To: “‘ibogaine@mindvox.com'” <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Don’t believe ya honey!!
andria

—–Original Message—–
From: Patrick K. Kroupa [mailto:digital@phantom.com]
Sent: 06 August 2002 19:35
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Karina and methadeone kicking

On [Tue, Aug 06, 2002 at 11:37:24AM -0700], [Brett Calabrese] wrote:

| Patrick,
|
| I am glad to see you reached the denial stage of your
| nicotine addiction.

Oh absolutely.  Unfortunately, being FAMILIAR with addiction, I really,
strongly, highly suspect, I will take no action whatsoever until the day I
go to the gym and discover I can’t breath, or my heart hurts…  At which
point I will prolly re-evaluate my choice to keep smoking and just find
something else to do.

|
| “> I’m gonna go light a cigarette now”
|
| I know the feeling, can’t imagine myself doing it but
| it wouldn’t take much (like 1 cigarette) to change
| that real fast.  Just like real drugs…

Yeah, I have vague plans to stop smoking the next time I dose with
ibogaine; cuz I mean, for me, every time I dose I cannot smoke.  I light a
cigarette afterwards and literally vomit.  I have to WORK BACK UP using
menthols, half a cigarette at a time.

Being real I am forced to conclude that I really don’t care, because I
still haven’t exited the Indestructable stage of life, and it hasn’t had
any negative effect on me.  Therefore, I just don’t care enough to exert
the effort required to tune that headchange.

Look I LIKE smoking.  It makes me happy.  Really, it does.  I think, I’m
pretty sure.

Patrick

From: Andria Efthimiou-Mordaunt <AndriaEM@drugscope.org.uk>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Re: Karina and methadeone kicking
Date: August 7, 2002 at 7:04:20 AM EDT
To: “‘ibogaine@mindvox.com'” <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You’rte gonna quit soon, as am I if Asthma doesn’t kill me first!! It nrly
did 2x in the last couple of yrs, once in London and once in Antwerp.
Galloping nr death experiences = very exciting but frigging hell, I think I
REALLY wanna live, however painful life gets. I just found out I’m
intelligent; I passed both my exmans with flying colours: it’s official
Andria Mordaunt can think straight, even under stress

Love and strength 2 u all

Andria E-Mordaunt
Users Voice Editor
John Mordaunt Trust Director

C/O Drugscope,  32 Loman St, London, SE1 OEE, U.K
0+ 44 (0)207 928 1211 Tel
0+ 44 (0)207 922 8780  Fax

E-mail
Usersvoice.jmt@drugscope.org.uk

—–Original Message—–
From: Patrick K. Kroupa [mailto:digital@phantom.com]
Sent: 06 August 2002 19:15
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Karina and methadeone kicking

On [Tue, Aug 06, 2002 at 11:19:44AM -0700], [Brett Calabrese] wrote:

| >     Now…these freakin cigarettes though, let’s all
| > please hope she can bear with me long enough to see
| > me quit those too.

| In time, it will get to you. I hated the nagging I did
| to myself, gotta stop some day, gotta quit, this is
| bad, choke,  yuck, black stuff from my lungs, that
| can’t be good… It is now 30 days without smoking,
| with a little help from my friend… It feels good,
| didn’t hurt a bit (really!), finally ^&*(KING free of
| them, done with, OVER (cept for still chewing some
| nicorette or my mind goes in la-la smokers land,
| getting better, chewing less – 3-4 a day now). In
| reality, I must have spent 10,000 times the amount of
| energy thinking about it as it actually took to quit.
| I actually became calmer, more at peace, ok and I will
| say it because my honey says it, “sweeter” and not
| just because I don’t STINK any longer. It is great, no
| going to pick up a pack for my addiction or I will
| climb the walls and get cranky, no more STINK, no more
| ashes or burn marks, I get lots more kisses, food
| tasts better, my skin is younger looking/better color,
| that little tightness in my chest is gone, the
| smelling is taking a little longer but my sinus’s are
| clearing. AND think of all the money you will save,
| screw the cigarettes, they are CHEAP, the cancer,
| chemo, radiation, multiple surgeries… and that
| oxygen tank you have to carry around, that gets
| expensive.

These are all LIES you’re telling yourself and trying hard to believe,
because you’ve given up the vitality-enhancing, health-boosting,
uber-drug nicotine.

|
| Hope that makes you feel better.
|
| Why do you smoke anyway?  In the end I had none….

Look Brett, *I* don’t have a problem.  Just what are you accusing me of
anyway?  I smoke 2 packs a day because it makes me happy…  Or something.
I can stop ANY TIME I WANT.  I just don’t want to.

Oh wait, nevermind, you were talking to Preston, clearly HE has a problem,
as you were.

I’m gonna go light a cigarette now.

Patrick

From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] What’s this about no hallucinations?
Date: August 7, 2002 at 12:30:48 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

i did not see bewitti i saw wheat fields Morrison, lots of colors,ants,spiders,2 kids playing in the sand at the beach, an old lady in a wheel chair, and  some body drowning see that really happened when i was 5 we had a house on a lake and the older brother of my friend was supposed to watch us and didn’t and she really drowned………i want to do it again (ibogaine) i loved it  but i am doing good now no more withdrawals…….and my husband is  the bomb he took great care of me he only drank and did speed 2 weeks after we got married in 1998 he just quit had the shakes for a week now he smokes weed to go to sleep…….but he does not have a clue about heroin, methadone i felt sorry for him cause he didn’t know what to do but i’m OK now i have been walking that helps  that’s it for now karina

From: Jellking <jellking@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] What’s this about no hallucinations?
Date: August 7, 2002 at 12:13:04 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi, I really beg to differ re no hallucinating.  I will admit I only
hallucinated (properly, i.e. seeing stuff that wasn’t there, as
opposed to watching a film on the wall) late in the game, i.e at
about I think 25  hours, but even before then, My EYES WERE WIDE
OPEN.  and I saw a lot of stuff.  (Bwiti said to me, “open your eyes,
so you can hear me!  and I laughed alittle, and thought, how William
Blake, then he roared, OPEN THEM!  And I did, and wow!)Now, I
actually complained about this a bit, as I’d been told there’d be
none of this real hallucination, but then when I went to the john,
and the linoleum floor turned to liquid and began to rise up to my
knees, etc., I just didn’t care anymore who was right or wrong about
what would/could happen; it was so much fun at athat poing (after so
much  gruelling stuff before).  Jane

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health – Feel better, live better
http://health.yahoo.com

From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Karina and methadeone kicking
Date: August 6, 2002 at 11:50:16 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hi the doc got me on  vistaril & amben for sleep believe me i fight  everday not to do something stupid believe it or not i llove my husband  so much that’s what is keeping me straight………before i diid’nt care  but my hubby treats me like a queen……it goes both ways i treat him the same way……….karina

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Karina and methadeone kicking
Date: August 6, 2002 at 7:20:55 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

my body needs something not heroin or methadon i
just feel weird not taking
something…….karina

It is a normal thing for an addict to feel weird not
taking something, it will pass without taking
anything, it might not pass (or slow up the process)
if you do… Your body is adjusting, let it adjust,
try something “else” (something without an RX on the
label).

This is the part where your addiction tries to keep
its hooks into you and I am not talking about quitting
everything at once (speaking of which, go smoke
somethin… if that doesn’t work, have another).

Brett

.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health – Feel better, live better
http://health.yahoo.com

From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Karina and methadeone kicking
Date: August 6, 2002 at 6:24:23 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

good you did quit? hey if i can quit methadone you should be  able to quit smoking but  i can’t tak i smoke cigs too and my mamma has emphyemsa…….i can’t be two faced karina

From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Karina and methadeone kicking
Date: August 6, 2002 at 6:13:15 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

well you can’t quit everything at once………my problem is tthat it’s like my body needs something not heroin or methadon i  just feel weird not taking something…….karina

From: “Beth Lee-Herbert” <gaia_love420@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Karina and methadeone kicking
Date: August 6, 2002 at 4:49:48 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

the thing about cigs is that at least they take a long time to kill you, other things aren’t so patient for your soul.  i was dopesick at my parents house and my sister said to me quite cheerfully, ‘so when are you going to quit smoking’  fucking one thing at a time.  cigs are so pointless, you smoke to continue the habit.  just for today, i’m satisfied being clean.  one vice at a time!

>From: “Patrick K. Kroupa”

>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Karina and methadeone kicking

>Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 14:34:56 -0400

>

>On [Tue, Aug 06, 2002 at 11:37:24AM -0700], [Brett Calabrese] wrote:

>

>| Patrick,

>|

>| I am glad to see you reached the denial stage of your

>| nicotine addiction.

>

>Oh absolutely. Unfortunately, being FAMILIAR with addiction, I really,

>strongly, highly suspect, I will take no action whatsoever until the day I

>go to the gym and discover I can’t breath, or my heart hurts… At which

>point I will prolly re-evaluate my choice to keep smoking and just find

>something else to do.

>

>|

>| “> I’m gonna go light a cigarette now”

>|

>| I know the feeling, can’t imagine myself doing it but

>| it wouldn’t take much (like 1 cigarette) to change

>| that real fast. Just like real drugs…

>

>Yeah, I have vague plans to stop smoking the next time I dose with

>ibogaine; cuz I mean, for me, every time I dose I cannot smoke. I light a

>cigarette afterwards and literally vomit. I have to WORK BACK UP using

>menthols, half a cigarette at a time.

>

>Being real I am forced to conclude that I really don’t care, because I

>still haven’t exited the Indestructable stage of life, and it hasn’t had

>any negative effect on me. Therefore, I just don’t care enough to exert

>the effort required to tune that headchange.

>

>Look I LIKE smoking. It makes me happy. Really, it does. I think, I’m

>pretty sure.

>

>Patrick

MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: Click Here

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Karina and methadeone kicking
Date: August 6, 2002 at 2:34:56 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Tue, Aug 06, 2002 at 11:37:24AM -0700], [Brett Calabrese] wrote:

| Patrick,
|
| I am glad to see you reached the denial stage of your
| nicotine addiction.

Oh absolutely.  Unfortunately, being FAMILIAR with addiction, I really,
strongly, highly suspect, I will take no action whatsoever until the day I
go to the gym and discover I can’t breath, or my heart hurts…  At which
point I will prolly re-evaluate my choice to keep smoking and just find
something else to do.

|
| “> I’m gonna go light a cigarette now”
|
| I know the feeling, can’t imagine myself doing it but
| it wouldn’t take much (like 1 cigarette) to change
| that real fast.  Just like real drugs…

Yeah, I have vague plans to stop smoking the next time I dose with
ibogaine; cuz I mean, for me, every time I dose I cannot smoke.  I light a
cigarette afterwards and literally vomit.  I have to WORK BACK UP using
menthols, half a cigarette at a time.

Being real I am forced to conclude that I really don’t care, because I
still haven’t exited the Indestructable stage of life, and it hasn’t had
any negative effect on me.  Therefore, I just don’t care enough to exert
the effort required to tune that headchange.

Look I LIKE smoking.  It makes me happy.  Really, it does.  I think, I’m
pretty sure.

Patrick

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Karina and methadeone kicking
Date: August 6, 2002 at 2:37:24 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Patrick,

I am glad to see you reached the denial stage of your
nicotine addiction.

“> I’m gonna go light a cigarette now”

I know the feeling, can’t imagine myself doing it but
it wouldn’t take much (like 1 cigarette) to change
that real fast.  Just like real drugs…

Brett
— “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> wrote:
On [Tue, Aug 06, 2002 at 11:19:44AM -0700], [Brett
Calabrese] wrote:

| >     Now…these freakin cigarettes though, let’s
all
| > please hope she can bear with me long enough to
see
| > me quit those too.

| In time, it will get to you. I hated the nagging I
did
| to myself, gotta stop some day, gotta quit, this
is
| bad, choke,  yuck, black stuff from my lungs, that
| can’t be good… It is now 30 days without
smoking,
| with a little help from my friend… It feels
good,
| didn’t hurt a bit (really!), finally ^&*(KING free
of
| them, done with, OVER (cept for still chewing some
| nicorette or my mind goes in la-la smokers land,
| getting better, chewing less – 3-4 a day now). In
| reality, I must have spent 10,000 times the amount
of
| energy thinking about it as it actually took to
quit.
| I actually became calmer, more at peace, ok and I
will
| say it because my honey says it, “sweeter” and not
| just because I don’t STINK any longer. It is
great, no
| going to pick up a pack for my addiction or I will
| climb the walls and get cranky, no more STINK, no
more
| ashes or burn marks, I get lots more kisses, food
| tasts better, my skin is younger looking/better
color,
| that little tightness in my chest is gone, the
| smelling is taking a little longer but my sinus’s
are
| clearing. AND think of all the money you will
save,
| screw the cigarettes, they are CHEAP, the cancer,
| chemo, radiation, multiple surgeries… and that
| oxygen tank you have to carry around, that gets
| expensive.

These are all LIES you’re telling yourself and
trying hard to believe,
because you’ve given up the vitality-enhancing,
health-boosting,
uber-drug nicotine.

|
| Hope that makes you feel better.
|
| Why do you smoke anyway?  In the end I had
none….

Look Brett, *I* don’t have a problem.  Just what are
you accusing me of
anyway?  I smoke 2 packs a day because it makes me
happy…  Or something.
I can stop ANY TIME I WANT.  I just don’t want to.

Oh wait, nevermind, you were talking to Preston,
clearly HE has a problem,
as you were.

I’m gonna go light a cigarette now.

Patrick

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health – Feel better, live better
http://health.yahoo.com

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Karina and methadeone kicking
Date: August 6, 2002 at 2:14:49 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Tue, Aug 06, 2002 at 11:19:44AM -0700], [Brett Calabrese] wrote:

| >     Now…these freakin cigarettes though, let’s all
| > please hope she can bear with me long enough to see
| > me quit those too.

| In time, it will get to you. I hated the nagging I did
| to myself, gotta stop some day, gotta quit, this is
| bad, choke,  yuck, black stuff from my lungs, that
| can’t be good… It is now 30 days without smoking,
| with a little help from my friend… It feels good,
| didn’t hurt a bit (really!), finally ^&*(KING free of
| them, done with, OVER (cept for still chewing some
| nicorette or my mind goes in la-la smokers land,
| getting better, chewing less – 3-4 a day now). In
| reality, I must have spent 10,000 times the amount of
| energy thinking about it as it actually took to quit.
| I actually became calmer, more at peace, ok and I will
| say it because my honey says it, “sweeter” and not
| just because I don’t STINK any longer. It is great, no
| going to pick up a pack for my addiction or I will
| climb the walls and get cranky, no more STINK, no more
| ashes or burn marks, I get lots more kisses, food
| tasts better, my skin is younger looking/better color,
| that little tightness in my chest is gone, the
| smelling is taking a little longer but my sinus’s are
| clearing. AND think of all the money you will save,
| screw the cigarettes, they are CHEAP, the cancer,
| chemo, radiation, multiple surgeries… and that
| oxygen tank you have to carry around, that gets
| expensive.

These are all LIES you’re telling yourself and trying hard to believe,
because you’ve given up the vitality-enhancing, health-boosting,
uber-drug nicotine.

|
| Hope that makes you feel better.
|
| Why do you smoke anyway?  In the end I had none….

Look Brett, *I* don’t have a problem.  Just what are you accusing me of
anyway?  I smoke 2 packs a day because it makes me happy…  Or something.
I can stop ANY TIME I WANT.  I just don’t want to.

Oh wait, nevermind, you were talking to Preston, clearly HE has a problem,
as you were.

I’m gonna go light a cigarette now.

Patrick

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Karina and methadeone kicking
Date: August 6, 2002 at 2:19:44 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Now…these freakin cigarettes though, let’s all
please hope she can bear with me long enough to see
me quit those too.

The only reason I was smoking was that was because I
always smoked (cept for the dozen times or so I tried
to stop). It was just another way I kept myself
prisoner.

In time, it will get to you. I hated the nagging I did
to myself, gotta stop some day, gotta quit, this is
bad, choke,  yuck, black stuff from my lungs, that
can’t be good… It is now 30 days without smoking,
with a little help from my friend… It feels good,
didn’t hurt a bit (really!), finally ^&*(KING free of
them, done with, OVER (cept for still chewing some
nicorette or my mind goes in la-la smokers land,
getting better, chewing less – 3-4 a day now). In
reality, I must have spent 10,000 times the amount of
energy thinking about it as it actually took to quit.
I actually became calmer, more at peace, ok and I will
say it because my honey says it, “sweeter” and not
just because I don’t STINK any longer. It is great, no
going to pick up a pack for my addiction or I will
climb the walls and get cranky, no more STINK, no more
ashes or burn marks, I get lots more kisses, food
tasts better, my skin is younger looking/better color,
that little tightness in my chest is gone, the
smelling is taking a little longer but my sinus’s are
clearing. AND think of all the money you will save,
screw the cigarettes, they are CHEAP, the cancer,
chemo, radiation, multiple surgeries… and that
oxygen tank you have to carry around, that gets
expensive.

Hope that makes you feel better.

Why do you smoke anyway?  In the end I had none….
<g>

Brett

(I figure, if I keep writing publicly that I
know I should quit, one day I’ll listen to myself.
That said, maybe as long as I write it in public
I’ll have an excuse to say, see, I’m gonna quit
sooner or later…egad, this gets to be a depressing
cycle. Maybe we should lock me up for smoking
cigarettes, teach me a lesson!)
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 12:06 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Karina and methadeone
kicking

the truth no programs i have my  husband and my
mom brother and might souni d funny but i love my
husband with my heart and soul and that keeps me
clean………..i am not patting myself on the back
BUT I DID IT NO METHADONEA………are you off????
im not eating much but for some reason i gained
weight i have to go today and get 2 pairs at least
of jeansl   lol  that’s depressing karina

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health – Feel better, live better
http://health.yahoo.com

From: Andria Efthimiou-Mordaunt <AndriaEM@drugscope.org.uk>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Thanks for the reply Carla
Date: August 6, 2002 at 1:56:57 PM EDT
To: “‘ibogaine@mindvox.com'” <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

PK

Glad u’s having a great day

I’ve not got IE5, but will work it out when I get 10 mins free

Fanx 4 yr support

andria

—–Original Message—–
From: Patrick K. Kroupa [mailto:digital@phantom.com]
Sent: 06 August 2002 18:22
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Thanks for the reply Carla

On [Tue, Aug 06, 2002 at 04:52:33PM +0100], [Andria Efthimiou-Mordaunt]
wrote:

| NEED TO Make a request; could y’all make sure the font is at least 12pts
big
| as I am very short-sighted and getting headaches from leaning towards
screen
| all the time. I have contact lenses, but hey I’m getting older
| Please have mercy and respond if u can

Hey Andria,

Your font size is controlled by whatever mail client you use.  Somewhere
there will be a setting that lets you adjust display size.  If you are
using web mail in IE5/6 just click on [View] / [Text Size].  Under Mozilla
0.94-1.1 (Netscrape 6-7+) go to [View] / [Text Zoom].

Anything else you’re using, will have similar controls sumplace.  Most
people just write using plain text, meaning there is no font size
information included in the message.  The text doesn’t know what it’s
supposed to look like, it’s not html; you have to TELL IT what it’s
supposed to do.

You can do it.  You HAVE THE POWER, you’ve already won and just don’t know
it yet.  Go Andria, Go, Yeahhhh!

Pardon me, I’ve having a great day.

Patrick

From: Andria Efthimiou-Mordaunt <AndriaEM@drugscope.org.uk>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Re: Karina and methadeone kicking
Date: August 6, 2002 at 1:39:01 PM EDT
To: “‘ibogaine@mindvox.com'” <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

What r u responding to K?

andria
—–Original Message—–
From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com [mailto:Mzzthangg13@aol.com]
Sent: 06 August 2002 17:07
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Karina and methadeone kicking

the truth no programs i have my  husband and my mom brother and might souni d funny but i love my husband with my heart and soul and that keeps me clean………..i am not patting myself on the back BUT I DID IT NO METHADONEA………are you off???? im not eating much but for some reason i gained weight i have to go today and get 2 pairs at least of jeansl   lol  that’s depressing karina

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Texas Platters Jasmine Star Ibogaine and
Date: August 6, 2002 at 1:33:01 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I was looking up Star Jasmine and ibogaine (see below)
came across this;

http://www.austinchronicle.com/issues/dispatch/2002-06-07/music_phases13.html

Who is “Z” who did the ibo?

Brett

Texas Platters
Phases & Stages
BY MICHAEL CHAMY

June 7, 2002:

Jasmine Star
It came wrapped in a cardboard sleeve with no credits,
adorned with a grainy black-and-white photo of a woman
with a guitar. Inside, Jasmine Star reveals a whispery
Hope Sandoval-like voice, accompanied by bare-bones
slide guitar, piano, and most distinctively, the
buzzing drone of an Indian classical tanpura. An
Internet search reveals a pair of intense,
high-traffic fan sites for this Jandek-like local
enigma, one in particular being full of lurid stories
of mental illness and psychedelic drugs. Vague pieces
of info and conjecture surrounding this group credits
a singer by the name of “Z,” who was apparently an
active local performance artist and musician in the
late Eighties before falling into severe drug
addiction and psychosis. The group draws its name from
the star jasmine plant, which contains the therapeutic
psychoactive compound ibogaine, which Z apparently had
some sort of transcendent experience with. The singer
may still reside in a local mental institution, this
album reportedly recorded in secret within the walls
of the institution itself. No telling if these stories
are true or contrived, but what rings painfully true
is this intimate recording, filled with the sad,
haunted beauty of Z’s voice and tortured lyrics, her
pain anesthetized by the soothing drone that surrounds
this shadowy, sympathetic figure. The gaps in the
music, and the story, are fertile ground for the
active imagination.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health – Feel better, live better
http://health.yahoo.com

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Thanks for the reply Carla
Date: August 6, 2002 at 1:22:03 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Tue, Aug 06, 2002 at 04:52:33PM +0100], [Andria Efthimiou-Mordaunt] wrote:

| NEED TO Make a request; could y’all make sure the font is at least 12pts big
| as I am very short-sighted and getting headaches from leaning towards screen
| all the time. I have contact lenses, but hey I’m getting older
| Please have mercy and respond if u can

Hey Andria,

Your font size is controlled by whatever mail client you use.  Somewhere
there will be a setting that lets you adjust display size.  If you are
using web mail in IE5/6 just click on [View] / [Text Size].  Under Mozilla
0.94-1.1 (Netscrape 6-7+) go to [View] / [Text Zoom].

Anything else you’re using, will have similar controls sumplace.  Most
people just write using plain text, meaning there is no font size
information included in the message.  The text doesn’t know what it’s
supposed to look like, it’s not html; you have to TELL IT what it’s
supposed to do.

You can do it.  You HAVE THE POWER, you’ve already won and just don’t know
it yet.  Go Andria, Go, Yeahhhh!

Pardon me, I’ve having a great day.

Patrick

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Karina and methadeone kicking
Date: August 6, 2002 at 1:21:31 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

yes I’m off, but skinny as hell. I too have a companion, a wife in all but officially sanctioned title, who helped me in more ways than I can cover in getting through my decisions to stop shooting up in the first place, then a few years later getting off methadone.
Now…these freakin cigarettes though, let’s all please hope she can bear with me long enough to see me quit those too.
(I figure, if I keep writing publicly that I know I should quit, one day I’ll listen to myself. That said, maybe as long as I write it in public I’ll have an excuse to say, see, I’m gonna quit sooner or later…egad, this gets to be a depressing cycle. Maybe we should lock me up for smoking cigarettes, teach me a lesson!)
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 12:06 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Karina and methadeone kicking

the truth no programs i have my  husband and my mom brother and might souni d funny but i love my husband with my heart and soul and that keeps me clean………..i am not patting myself on the back BUT I DID IT NO METHADONEA………are you off???? im not eating much but for some reason i gained weight i have to go today and get 2 pairs at least of jeansl   lol  that’s depressing karina

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] [MarcBrandl@hq.lp.org: RE: [vox] Re: [crashtestdummies] Bloody hell …]
Date: August 6, 2002 at 1:14:02 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

bl1p

From: “Marc Brandl” <MarcBrandl@hq.lp.org>
Subject: RE: [vox] Re: [crashtestdummies] Bloody hell …
Date: August 6, 2002 at 11:04:32 AM EDT
To: <vox@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: vox@mindvox.com

Libertarians blast new Bush program
to create network of citizen informers

WASHINGTON, DC — A new government program that seeks to recruit
millions of mail carriers, utility workers and others with access to
private homes as citizen-informants should be terminated immediately,
Libertarians say.

“Big Brother is watching you — and he just might be your cable guy,”
said Steve Dasbach, Libertarian Party executive director. “This
program will undermine the American traditions of freedom and privacy,
and make us more like the nations that we abhor.”

A pilot program for TIPS — the Terrorism Information and Prevention
System — is scheduled to start next month in 10 cities. Its goal:
Recruiting 1 million people with access to Americans’ homes, such as
letter carriers and utility workers, to report “suspicious, and
potentially terrorist-related activity.”

The network of citizen-informers is a component of President Bush’s
volunteer Citizens Corps program, which advises Americans on how to
“keep their neighborhoods safe.”

But the problem with TIPS is that it goes far beyond any reasonable
steps to prevent terrorism and smacks of a police state, said Dasbach.

“By deputizing utility workers, delivery drivers and other private
employees as de facto government agents, the government has created a
way to search your home without a warrant,” Dasbach said. “The only
reason the government wants to recruit private citizen-spies is that
they can do things the government can’t do legally, such as monitor
your private behavior with absolutely no suspicion that you’ve done
anything wrong.

“These were standard tactics for the Stasi — the East German secret
police — but they should be repugnant to every American.”

When TIPS is fully operational, the United States would have a higher
percentage of government informers than the former communist East
Germany, according to an analysis by investigative journalist Ritt
Goldstein.

“Assuming the pilot program is initiated in the 10 largest cities,
about one out of 24 Americans — or 4 percent of the population —
would become citizen-spies,” Dasbach noted. “It’s time to ask all
Americans: Should you trust a government that doesn’t trust you?”

Equally disturbing, Dasbach noted, is that the TIPS program mandates
that all data collected by the citizen-informants be entered into a
Justice Department database and made available to state and local law
enforcement agencies.

“It’s frightening to think that your plumber, UPS driver or handyman
might have the power to label you “suspicious” and insert your name
into a government database without your knowledge,” Dasbach said.

“Informant reports are also notoriously inaccurate. A 1992 report by
Harvard University’s Project on Justice found that many informants
routinely embellish the truth or even fabricate reports.

“Thanks to the TIPS program, you could wind up having to explain your
private behavior to an FBI agent simply because the cable guy noticed
something “suspicious” or a neighbor doesn’t like you. Aren’t those
the kinds of tactics employed by the nations that we’re fighting in the
War on Terrorism?

“Here’s a TIP for Mr. Bush: Abolish this program immediately. The U.S.
government has no business spying on its own citizens.”

—–Original Message—–
From: Hiro Protagonist [mailto:hiro@blacksun.org]
Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 12:24 AM
To: Mindvox
Subject: [vox] Re: [crashtestdummies] Bloody hell …

Damn, this and the fricken TIPS program. I hope I don’t see book burning in
Americas future. “Hiel Bush”

Fight the power! Fight the powers that be! Please feel free send 1$ via pay
pal to http://www.eff.org

On 8/5/02 3:41 PM, “Joshua Tinnin” <jtinnin@pacbell.net> wrote:

http://www.computerworld.com/securitytopics/security/story/0,10801,73074,00.
ht
ml

IT Pros May Face Background Checks

By DAN VERTON
JULY 29, 2002
Washington

The Bush administration plans to convene a panel of government and
private-sector labor and legal experts to develop guidelines for
subjecting
tens of thousands of corporate IT and other employees to background
investigations.

The panel, as described in the president’s “National Strategy for Homeland
Security” report, released July 16, would be convened jointly by the
secretary of Homeland Security and the attorney general following the
establishment of a cabinet-level Department of Homeland Security. It would
examine whether current employer liability statutes and privacy concerns
would hinder “necessary background checks for personnel with access to
critical infrastructure facilities or systems.”

That means employees in industries that include banking, chemicals,
energy,
transportation, telecommunications, shipping and public health would be
subject to background investigations as a condition of employment.

“Personnel with privileged access to critical infrastructure, particularly
[IT-based] control systems, may serve as terrorist surrogates by providing
information on vulnerabilities, operating characteristics and protective
measures,” the Bush report states.

Some IT professionals see the plan as both an infringement on civil
liberties and a recipe for destroying innovation and economic prosperity.

Jonathan Blitt, president of ITT Industries Inc.’s Network Systems &
Services division in New York, said expanding background investigations
would do more harm than good.

“I [have] great concern with any effort to expand the size of government
intervention in commercial operations. The people you most want on your
side
are the people that may seem least desirable to a panel of so-called
experts,” Blitt said, referring to the community of programmers and
ethical
hackers who often live on what he referred to as the “fringe” of society.

“This pandering to the masses should stop, and professional reason should
start. This plan could put shackles on an industry that is critical to the
growth of our country.”

Others see no problem with the requirement for background investigations.
Eric Johansen, a systems analyst at ReliaStar Life Insurance Co. in
Minneapolis, is one of those.

“Yes, there is added cost, but companies should be doing this anyway as
part
of standard hiring procedures,” Johansen said. “A position like systems
analyst [or] network administrator requires access to extremely sensitive
data and control of many business-critical tasks. It would be ridiculous
not
to screen employees. Companies should not need President Bush’s push in
order for this to happen.”

Indeed, background investigations are already conducted by many companies
that have sensitive or critical positions that are vulnerable to terrorist
infiltration, such as airport baggage screeners and air marshals, said Ed
Badolato, president of Washington-based Contingency Management Services
Inc.
Investigations are necessary because they “provide a baseline for
preventing
known criminals and potential terrorists from working in vulnerable
areas,”
said Badolato, who oversaw some of the government’s most stringent and
expensive background investigations when he served as deputy assistant
secretary for energy emergencies at the Department of Energy.

The main challenges facing companies that don’t currently conduct detailed
background investigations on employees include determining how much of the
workforce needs to obtain a security clearance, who will pay for the
government-level security investigation and how those clearances will be
administered and maintained, said Badolato.

Vinton Cerf, senior vice president for Internet architecture and
technology
at WorldCom Inc., said that while there are benefits to such background
checks, they are not a panacea for homeland security.

“Given the technical nature of much of the critical infrastructure it
seems
likely that these investigations will uncover some number of risks that
employers were not aware of,” said Cerf. However, “I am ambivalent about
the
ultimate utility of these measures, since compromise of trusted
individuals
is not something an investigation can prevent.”

The administration’s desire to ensure that employees at critical
facilities
don’t pose a threat could also provide incentive for Bush to establish a
chief privacy officer post at the proposed Homeland Security Department.
“I
think that we are very open to having that discussion,” said Steven
Cooper,
Bush’s CIO for homeland security. “I suspect the American public is also
interested.”

Meanwhile, Bush has threatened to veto current legislation that would
create
the cabinet-level post if Congress doesn’t grant him the ability to limit
the workplace rights of the 177,000 federal employees who would make up
the
new department. Bush has argued that current labor laws would limit his
ability to manage the department. Critics fear that the administration is
seeking a way to deny employees collective bargaining and civil service
protections.

———————————————————–
Bruce Hubbert                             bruce@hubbert.org

/\_-\
<((_))>
\- \/
/\_-\(:::::::::)/\_-\
<((_))  ???????  ((_))>
\- \/(:::::::::)\- \/
/\_-\
<((_))>
\- \/

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] [MarcBrandl@hq.lp.org: RE: [vox] [drugwar] bob barr commercial]
Date: August 6, 2002 at 1:13:32 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

bl1p

From: “Marc Brandl” <MarcBrandl@hq.lp.org>
Subject: RE: [vox] [drugwar] bob barr commercial
Date: August 6, 2002 at 11:02:14 AM EDT
To: <vox@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: vox@mindvox.com

Anyone wishing to see the commercials run can donate at:

http://www.randforcongress.com/

Your help is needed.  $5000 worth of ads have already been purchased — with
your help we’ll be kicking it up over the next few weeks.

Marc

—–Original Message—–
From: Joshua Tinnin [mailto:krinklyfig@myrealbox.com]
Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 1:44 PM
To: drugwar@mindvox.com
Cc: vox@mindvox.com
Subject: [vox] Re: [drugwar] Re: [vox] Fwd: Re: [drugwar] bob barr
commercial

—– Original Message —–
From: <vector6@space.com>

That’s a ok ad. It’s some old lady with no teeth dying.

Actually, that “old lady” is Cheryl Miller, who has been fighting Bob Barr
for years on his stance on medical marijuana.

I posted this earlier, but I’ll post it again – Two posts from people on the
MAPtalk list on Cheryl:

—– Original Message —–
From: “G F Storck” <gstorck@immly.org>

Thanks Josh!

What a great commercial. The LP shot the footage the day after the HR 2592
Press Conference on Capitol Hill that Jim & Cheryl Miller participated in,
as well as myself. I was present during some of the taping, and the
commercial came out real well.

I urge everyone to tale a look at it.

—– Original Message —–
From: “A H Clements” <cheechwz@mindspring.com>

Hey hey Joshua & MAPsters,

At 03:12 PM 8/2/02 , you wrote:
<snip>

Yes, the commercial is very
emotionally charged, and it plays to sympathy quite a bit while
demonizing
Barr.

Cheryl Miller is a courageous activist/patient who has *literally*
been
chasing Bob Barr for years and now she’s finally caught up with him.
That
coward Barr can’t run any more 🙂

Appended are links to MAP articles about Cheryl (and husband Jim)’s
medical cannabis activism.

take care   —   peace   —   ashley in atlanta

US: Transcript: Bipartisan Group of Representatives Holds News Conference
on Med
URL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v02/n1401/a04.html

US: Transcript: Bipartisan Group of Representatives Holds News Conference
on Med
URL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v02/n1401/a06.html

US NJ: PUB LTE: Ciesla’s Failure To Respond No Surprise
URL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v01/n1649/a09.html

US: Pot Proponents Dismayed
URL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v01/n865/a09.html

US NJ: PUB LTE: Let Patients Use Marijuana
URL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v00/n1499/a03.html

US WI: State Residents Join Marijuana Protest
URL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v99/n1275/a06.html

US DC: State Medical Pot Advocates Involved In DC Protest
URL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v99/n1165/a08.html

US: Wire: Medical Marijuana Use Advocates Stage Protest at
URL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v99/n1146/a01.html

Canada: Man Who Died Fleeing Cops Remembered As ‘Naive’
URL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v99/n1076/a12.html

Canada: Heart Of Gold
URL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v99/n1066/a06.html

US CA: Rogan at Center of Medicinal Marijuana Controversy
URL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v98/n242/a08.html

US NJ: Cheryl And Jim Miller: MJ vs. MS in NJ
URL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v98/n071/a07.html

From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Karina and methadeone kicking
Date: August 6, 2002 at 12:06:30 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

the truth no programs i have my  husband and my mom brother and might souni d funny but i love my husband with my heart and soul and that keeps me clean………..i am not patting myself on the back BUT I DID IT NO METHADONEA………are you off???? im not eating much but for some reason i gained weight i have to go today and get 2 pairs at least of jeansl   lol  that’s depressing karina

From: Andria Efthimiou-Mordaunt <AndriaEM@drugscope.org.uk>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Re: Karina and methadeone kicking
Date: August 6, 2002 at 11:59:20 AM EDT
To: “‘ibogaine@mindvox.com'” <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Karina

You are heroic right now; simple as that honey. How many of us will go through all this and come up sounding creative, interesting and sweet? Let me personalise this as Preston has previoulsy suggested we all do

U r a great inspiration to me; i’m struggling but beginning to regain regular sleep pattern and even eating now and then.

Keep at it and consider this an Atlantic-hopping dose of strength and respect

I was wondering if u were considering attending any after care recovery groups? There are a variety out there

What d’ya reckon?

andria
—–Original Message—–
From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com [mailto:Mzzthangg13@aol.com]
Sent: 06 August 2002 16:11
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Karina and methadeone kicking

hi this is the 1st day i feel 1/2 norrmal  i am nbot taking  cloopin no more the is giving me revisaril non narcotic for nerves i have been taking baths you know what helps me i listen to jim morrison he was my idol when i was a teen ager lol but i did it no fucken methadone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! karina

From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Thanks for the reply Carla
Date: August 6, 2002 at 11:51:38 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

no problem

From: Andria Efthimiou-Mordaunt <AndriaEM@drugscope.org.uk>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Thanks for the reply Carla
Date: August 6, 2002 at 11:52:33 AM EDT
To: “‘ibogaine@mindvox.com'” <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

NEED TO Make a request; could y’all make sure the font is at least 12pts big as I am very short-sighted and getting headaches from leaning towards screen all the time. I have contact lenses, but hey I’m getting older
Please have mercy and respond if u can

andria
—–Original Message—–
From: Alison Senepart [mailto:aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: 05 September 2002 12:35
To: ibogaine
Subject: [ibogaine] Thanks for the reply Carla

Ta for taking the time to reply.  Am still reading everything I can & learning as I go.  Does Ibogaine create hallucinations??
I hate that,  can’t do trips or anything like that so if that was the case I might as well forget it.   …Allison

From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Karina and methadeone kicking
Date: August 6, 2002 at 11:12:39 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

yes now that i’m not kicking i can use my computer i don’t hurt finally!!!!!!!!!!!!!
thanks karina

From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Karina and methadeone kicking
Date: August 6, 2002 at 11:11:00 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hi this is the 1st day i feel 1/2 norrmal  i am nbot taking  cloopin no more the is giving me revisaril non narcotic for nerves i have been taking baths you know what helps me i listen to jim morrison he was my idol when i was a teen ager lol but i did it no fucken methadone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! karina

From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Ibogaine from Star Jasmine
Date: August 6, 2002 at 10:08:56 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

An interesting piece of of information. Has nay other work been done
along these lines?

Ibogaine from Trachelospermum jasminoides

(Star Jasmine)
“Leaves and stems (50 kg) were dried in the shade and extracted with
ethanol. The crude alcoholic extracts were concentrated and partitioned
between 10% hydrochloric acid and chloroform (pH 1). The chloroform
layer was dried with anhydrous sodium sulfate and concentrated to a gum
(25 g, F1). The aqueous acidic layer was basified with aqueous ammonia
and extracted into chloroform at various pH values (5, 7, 9, and 11).
The fraction obtained at pH-5 (20 g, F2) was found to contain major
alkaloids. We have recently reported five indole alkaloids from this
plant (2).”

“The crude alkaloidal fraction (F1, 25 g) was subjected to flash
chromatography. […] The alkaloid isolated was identified as
voacangine-7-hydroxyindolenine by comparison of its spectral data with
those reported in the literature (3). […]
Voacangine-7-hydroxyindolenine may have been formed by air oxidation
during the extraction and isolation process.”

“Fraction F2 (20 g) was also loaded on a silica column (750 g) and was
eluted with increasing polarities of mixtures of petroleum ether,
chloroform, ethyl acetate, and methanol.” “The fraction obtained on
elution with chloroform:ethyl acetate (3:1) consisted of a mixture of
four alkaloids. This fraction was subjected to a flash chromatography
which was eluted with increasing polarities of mixtures of petroleum
ether in acetone. The fraction obtained on elution with 70% petroleum
ether in acetone was found to contain two major alkaloids. These
alkaloids were separated by preparative TLC on silica gel (petroleum
ether:acetone:ammonia, 6:3.95:0.05). The faster moving alkaloid was
identified as ibogaine by comparison of its spectral data with those
reported in the literature (7) while the slower moving alkaloid was
identified as tabernaemontanine (8).”

“Further elution of the same column with 60% petroleum ether in acetone
afforded another alkaloid which was further purified by preparative TLC
on silica gel (petroleum ether:acetone:ammonia, 1:1:0

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

From: “sara glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Karina and methadeone kicking
Date: August 5, 2002 at 2:42:49 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

From my personal experience ,this is a real good advice .

Sara

—– Original Message —–
From: preston peet
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 7:54 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: Karina and methadeone kicking

TRY SMOKING POT. The Kinder the better, but I imagine any is better than none. Just from my own personal experience, it helped greatly kicking methadone. So too believe it or not did videogames on my computer, and long hot baths with lots of aromatherapy oils, incense, while listening to medium volume favorite music.
Wishing the very best, in empathy and with kudos,
Peace, and love,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 11:51 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Karina and reply from Paul Harvey

hi, i have been taling clonpin and amben to sleep i am oing to tell the doc i just want   trazadone that’s  not additiing see iam laid off but work should be in  this vweek and if i amm taking benos i’m screwed that is what happpen last year when i got off meth i won’t this time i hate metrhadone for me it’s the hardest to kick……..

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: Karina and methadeone kicking
Date: August 5, 2002 at 1:54:32 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

TRY SMOKING POT. The Kinder the better, but I imagine any is better than none. Just from my own personal experience, it helped greatly kicking methadone. So too believe it or not did videogames on my computer, and long hot baths with lots of aromatherapy oils, incense, while listening to medium volume favorite music.
Wishing the very best, in empathy and with kudos,
Peace, and love,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 11:51 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Karina and reply from Paul Harvey

hi, i have been taling clonpin and amben to sleep i am oing to tell the doc i just want   trazadone that’s  not additiing see iam laid off but work should be in  this vweek and if i amm taking benos i’m screwed that is what happpen last year when i got off meth i won’t this time i hate metrhadone for me it’s the hardest to kick……..

From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Karina and reply from Paul Harvey
Date: August 5, 2002 at 11:51:42 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hi, i have been taling clonpin and amben to sleep i am oing to tell the doc i just want   trazadone that’s  not additiing see iam laid off but work should be in  this vweek and if i amm taking benos i’m screwed that is what happpen last year when i got off meth i won’t this time i hate metrhadone for me it’s the hardest to kick……..

From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Karina ??
Date: August 5, 2002 at 11:45:39 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hi the reason i am craving acid is cause i likwed the ibogaine so mych  today is the day i will take clonodine i do feel alot  bettter……..i don’t even no where to get lacid this iis  fuckin reno lol

From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Karina ??
Date: August 5, 2002 at 11:39:52 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

thank you wish you the best

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Thanks for the reply Carla
Date: August 5, 2002 at 10:26:55 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Allison

Does Ibogaine
create hallucinations??

Some say it does, most of those have never taken it.

It produces a dream like state, like REM sleep while
awake, it is unlike any other hallucinogen I have
taken. If you don’t like the dream, open your eyes or
simply blink. Most dreams, visions and images are in a
dark room with eyes closed, there are usually only
some visual side effects with eyes open. About the
most you are likely to “see” open eyed is this diamond
thingie (or whatever you see) that decides to float in
front of you for a while or a few stray images here
and there if the room is dark enough. THE OTHER HAND,
you could have other experiences like seeing people
who have died, your past, leaving your body, seeing
some issue or event in your life that from a
perspective that live people do not usually get to do.

I hate that,  can’t do trips or anything like that
so if that was the case I might as well forget it.

I wouldn’t be too concerned, you can always open your
eyes.

…Allison

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From: “Alison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: [ibogaine] Thanks for the reply Carla
Date: September 5, 2002 at 7:35:23 AM EDT
To: “ibogaine” <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ta for taking the time to reply.  Am still reading everything I can & learning as I go.  Does Ibogaine create hallucinations??
I hate that,  can’t do trips or anything like that so if that was the case I might as well forget it.   …Allison

From: Jellking <jellking@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Karina and reply from Paul Harvey
Date: August 4, 2002 at 9:09:01 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I think if you write Eric at ibeginagain.org he might know of some NZ
contacts.  Jellking

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health – Feel better, live better
http://health.yahoo.com

From: vector6@space.com
Subject: [ibogaine] RE: [drugwar] fart-like posts
Date: August 4, 2002 at 8:39:56 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

No idea, maybe they’re on too much of something when
they post, the joatammo account posted a whole series
of one line posts that made no sense to the ibogaine
and drugwar lists.

.:vector:.

“Madd Maxx” wrote:

Pssst… (They use AOL, speak slower, hehe)

Oh, this was a fart post kinda I guess… Can I laugh
sometimes?

—–Original Message—–From:preston peet
Sent: Sunday, August 04, 2002 7:49
To:drugwar@mindvox.com
Subject:drugwar] fart-like posts

Ok, this here is my first step in as moderator.
Why are you posting these pithy, one sentence posts?
They read like farts to be quite frank and&nbsp;honest
about it. You are adding exactly Z-E-R-O to any
conversation/debate whatsoever. I myself have no idea
who you are responding to in this here note of yours,
me or Vig.
So while I’m not barring you from future posts of such
nature, I am asking you why you are bothering posting
such drivel, as it makes no sense to me.
You mentioned on another list,
(ibogaine) that you work with addicts, (I think), “in
the heartland” so what
does that entail? Are you seeing any good results
from your work, or from the
War itself? Are you pro-War or anti-War?

—– Original Message —– From:Joatammmo23@aol.com
To:drugwar@mindvox.com
Sent:Saturday, August 03, 2002 10:21 PM
Subject:Re: [drugwar] the lazy Poets and Artists

U make no sense to most of us.

Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system
(http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.380 / Virus Database: 213 – Release Date:
7/24/2002

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From: ascending@hushmail.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: List Changes
Date: August 4, 2002 at 7:32:20 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Sun, 4 Aug 2002 01:32:23 EDT, ibogaine@mindvox.com wrote:
is there any way possible to stop getting all the ibogaine email. other than
changing my screen name or commiting  hari kari?

Killing yourself works but it won’t get your off the list. Even after death you will still be subscribed.

Communicate in total privacy.
Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Looking for a good deal on a domain name? http://www.hush.com/partners/offers.cgi?id=domainpeople

From: ascending@hushmail.com
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] Kicking dope with ibogaine
Date: August 4, 2002 at 7:27:27 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

To cast my vote, Heroin Times is a awful magazine. The layout breaks and is terrible to begin with. At least half of every issue is just pulling old articles published 2 years ago out of the previous issues. And my favorite of course is saving the best for last NA. Right.

Heroin Helper is a much better source of information. HT is a excuse to run a lot of advertising for detoxs and rehabs that have nothing to do with the articles they did manage to get.

Why anyone bothers writing for HT I don’t understand. Someone whose personal site has a hit rate orders of magnitude higher, and I’d hope they’re getting paid.

Mr. Kroupa, yeah! Let it all out, love your addiction series. Speaks my truth in most places, you lose me a little with the lights and eyes I haven’t done that much drain bamage yet. 😉

It finally came out 2 months late!

Howard I wouldn’t take it so seriously I think they
mangle everything. Patrick is in every issue, he
finished his addiction series I think this is the last
in the series with the last one being that one with
Dave Hunter. They’ve also blown up the Mindvox logo to
full page size and published a lot of letters 🙂

http://herointimes.com/aug02/intervent.html

http://herointimes.com/aug02/letters.html
http://herointimes.com/aug02/intervent3.html

Which reminds me to say one more time what I’ve
already said 5 times at least, Patrick why don’t you
take all those articles, you are at #17 or something,
some of them are you giving addiction treatment the
finger, I understand you like to do that 🙂 But
beside the rants you have at least 12 or 14 which are
awesome! And all about ibogaine and addiction, so get
rid of their awful formatting and put them up mindvox
or any ibogaine site. They’re great and I still don’t
understand why you don’t open up a ibogaine section on
the outside of the Mindvox site. Why write for heroin
times when the mindvox hit rate is so much higher?

Communicate in total privacy.
Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

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From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] to be more clear
Date: August 4, 2002 at 7:06:18 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Judith, not to agree or disagree with you, but I
have no idea what you’re talking about? You always
write a lot of short messages replying to something
from 10 days ago and don’t quote any of it so I don’t
know what your talking about.

Please include at least a sentence or two of what
you’re talking about because otherwise most of your
messages are very short and don’t make any sense.

Carla B

— Joatammmo23@aol.com wrote:
Dana

Was that meant to  be  sarcastic or just plain
ignorant?  We have  so many
addicts in the heartland  that need help and  can’t
get   it  (does that
make  you  happy? and U  want  to belittle  some of
the  the midwests largest
cities.  What  makes you such  an  expert?

J.Ostergard

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Health – Feel better, live better
http://health.yahoo.com

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Karina and reply from Paul Harvey
Date: August 4, 2002 at 7:01:18 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Allison, I know at least one other person from new
zealand is on this list and wrote questions about
where to get it a while before you arrived here. I
don’t know what the answers were because I wasn’t
really paying attention, since I’m in the USA 😉

Carla B

— Alison Senepart <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
Just goes to show you learn something new all the
time.  I didn’t even know
that leg tremors etc were callled ataxia.  I’ve
never tried ibogaine, which
is why I’m reading & trying to learn stuff from this
site.
but I know going cold turkey or doing it with any
sort of calming phamacy
meds that will help is real hard and kicking legs
etc.  are wicked, going on
past experiences.  I don’t  like methadone & reckon
its harder to get off
than anything else but still use it at times so as I
can go to work &
function whereas without it I would be still in bed
feeling like rubbish and
wasting lots of my time being sick, yet again.
You’d think I’d learn but
the temptation is usually too much and the old
vicious circle or cycle
starts again.  A day or two buzzing and going for it
and then back to square
1 with lots less money and feeling like crap;
Does anyone know if you can get ibogaine in New
Zealand.  Most of you seem
to be writing from UK or USA but no-one from over my
side of the
world……Allison

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health – Feel better, live better
http://health.yahoo.com

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Kicking dope with ibogaine
Date: August 4, 2002 at 6:49:04 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

It finally came out 2 months late!

Howard I wouldn’t take it so seriously I think they
mangle everything. Patrick is in every issue, he
finished his addiction series I think this is the last
in the series with the last one being that one with
Dave Hunter. They’ve also blown up the Mindvox logo to
full page size and published a lot of letters 🙂

http://herointimes.com/aug02/intervent.html

http://herointimes.com/aug02/letters.html
http://herointimes.com/aug02/intervent3.html

Which reminds me to say one more time what I’ve
already said 5 times at least, Patrick why don’t you
take all those articles, you are at #17 or something,
some of them are you giving addiction treatment the
finger, I understand you like to do that 🙂 But
beside the rants you have at least 12 or 14 which are
awesome! And all about ibogaine and addiction, so get
rid of their awful formatting and put them up mindvox
or any ibogaine site. They’re great and I still don’t
understand why you don’t open up a ibogaine section on
the outside of the Mindvox site. Why write for heroin
times when the mindvox hit rate is so much higher?

Mindvox is at 20,000 Heroin Times is at 160,000

http://www.alexa.com/data/details?q=mindvox&p=DestSearch_W_t_40_M3&mode=&url=http://www.mindvox.com/
http://www.alexa.com/data/details?q=mindvox&p=DestSearch_W_t_40_M3&mode=&url=http://www.herointimes.com

Come on, do it. I know you’re doing all these other
things but if you can find the time to keep adding and
I’ll say art, not rants 😉 to the outside of the
site, you can put a series of articles which I bet are
all sitting in the same directory anyway online. It
would take you 5 minutes.

Carla B

— HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:
I received an email from herointimes.com announcing
their latest edition.  I
found an article announced on the cover titled,
Kicking Dope with Ibogaine.
It really sounded familiar.  Well, it should have as
when I opened it I found
my name as author.  I wrote the article in March of
2000 and was somewhat
disappointed that the layout was cut and pasted here
and there incorrectly
and out of order making it difficult to comprehend
and some of the treatment
information of course was dated.  I was actually
expecting some new article
by Patrick as he has been writing for
herointimes.com on the subject.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health – Feel better, live better
http://health.yahoo.com

From: Bill Ross <ross@cgl.ucsf.EDU>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: List Changes
Date: August 4, 2002 at 2:10:25 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>

is there any way possible to stop getting all the ibogaine email.
other than changing my screen name or commiting  hari kari?

It’s even worse than that – you need to either learn how
such lists work by reading the instructions, or carefully
scrutinize the mail headers for the relevant unsubscribe
info.

Given these horrible choices, many people prefer to simply
complain until an administrator takes care of them.

Bill Ross

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Kicking dope with ibogaine
Date: August 4, 2002 at 1:58:11 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I received an email from herointimes.com announcing their latest edition.  I
found an article announced on the cover titled, Kicking Dope with Ibogaine.
It really sounded familiar.  Well, it should have as when I opened it I found
my name as author.  I wrote the article in March of 2000 and was somewhat
disappointed that the layout was cut and pasted here and there incorrectly
and out of order making it difficult to comprehend and some of the treatment
information of course was dated.  I was actually expecting some new article
by Patrick as he has been writing for herointimes.com on the subject.

I have included the original text below.

Howard
***********
Kicking Dope with Ibogaine

H.S. Lotsof

Kicking dope with ibogaine is the easiest way to kick dope that I have
seen in thirty-eight years on both sides of the fence:  As a former user and
as an administrator in drug addiction treatment research.  In writing this
article I  may use terms that would not be acceptable in academic, policy or
medical circles like kicking and dope and addiction.  These terms however,
are accepted and used by heroin users and those romantically involved with
heroin or wanting to be.  For those wanting…Be forewarned.

Which brings us back to ibogaine and kicking because if you get into
heroin you will eventually get into kicking.  There are some people who say
that heroin is king.    An artist I knew drew these muscular ibogaine arms
like Mr. Clean, reaching up and taking heroin and ripping it apart.  Ibogaine
is the only drug that has heroin beat.  Ibogaine is stronger than smack.

Ibogaine comes from the Tabernanthe iboga plant that grows in West
Central Africa.  It is widely used in the Bwiti initiation societies of
Gabon.  You can find information on the net concerning organized trips to
Gabon to undergo Bwiti initiation with iboga as it is called in that country.
Other names common in African religion for iboga are “the bitter wood” and
“the tree of life”.  The main difference between the botanical form and
purified ibogaine is that the purified chemical provides a shorter, cleaner
experience.  My favorite form of the chemical is actually a purified extract
of 95% ibogaine so you get just a touch of the effects of the dozen or more
other iboga alkaloids that are found in Tabernanthe iboga.  There are some
excellent chapters by Fernandez and by Barabe on the use of iboga in Africa
in The Ibogaine Dossier  (see web citations).

Ibogaine is found in different scenes and in different forms.  It is
available in modern hospitals and with Ministry of Health approval in the
Republic of Panama.  There are Caribbean based operations that are medically
staffed but, not based in hospitals and from there we go into self-help
operations that can take place in an apartment or hotel  with or without
medical supervision and finally, doses which can be tracked down by those
dedicated to do so and it does take some looking.  To my knowledge, anyone
who offers you a dose of ibogaine on the street  is going to rip you off,
possibly with the exception of your mother.  Prices range from $1,000,00 to
$3,000.00 for doses and from $5,000.00 to $15,000.00 for supervised
treatments.  Medically supervised therapy is generally in the $12,000.00 to
$15,000.00 range.  Crude total extracts are sold on the internet except to
countries where ibogaine is prohibited.  The total extracts are available
depending on currency exchange for some hundreds of dollars.  Currently,
ibogaine is a restricted or illegal substance in the United States, Sweden,
Belgium and Switzerland.  It appears France and Slovenia may be considering
restricting this drug.  Slovenia is the only country where high grade
ibogaine is reported to be widely available to knowledgeable aficionados.

Most ibogaine providers and most people taking ibogaine to detox from
heroin or methadone take it when they would take their wakeup dose of heroin
or methadone.  It is a time when you are not sick  but, just beginning to
realize it is time to dose or get off.  In about thirty-five to forty-five
minutes after taking ibogaine the dope sickness begins to vanish and usually
is gone within an hour.  So much for the withdrawal.  However, the ibogaine
hasn’t really kicked in yet.  That can take between an hour and a half to as
long as two and a half hours.

Ibogaine comes on in three phases.  The first and most controversial
phase produces a waking dreamlike state.  This does not happen to everyone
who takes ibogaine.  This effect usually lasts about three hours.  With your
eyes closed it is very similar to dreaming.  If you open your eyes the
visualization ceases.  Most subjects if they open their eyes, close them
quickly to return to the dream.  It does not even appear to be a conscious
act but, an effect of the ibogaine in that it produces a numbing of the skin
and a tendency to isolate one’s self from the environment in order to look
more closely at what is going on in your mind.  Some have described the en
tire ibogaine experience as the equivalent of years of psychoanalysis in
twenty-four or forty-eight hours.  This phase ends abruptly.  It is not
uncommon for some people to think the ibogaine has stopped working because
the first phase is so much more intense than the second.  This perception
generally lasts about ten minutes before you realize that doctor I (eye) as
some of the old timers from the 60s would call him, is still there.  On my
part I do not determine ibogaine to have a masculine demeanor, but that may
just be my humanism or the way others view masculinity.

The second phase lasts from eight to twenty hours.  This phase first
makes itself evident by a rapid transition from visualization into an
intellectual review of important thoughts.  What ibogaine has shown me is
that we all have questions to ask and we all know the answers to our
questions.  Many issues may be reviewed and with time they are resolved in
one way or another.   This phase ends slowly evolving into the third and
longest phase of residual stimulation.  There is no dreamlike experience.
The flow of thoughts have slowed and one is just left awake for twenty to
thirty hours.  Every patient/initiate/explorer I have been involved with
indicates before treatment that this will be no problem.   They are used to
staying up for days on heroin or cocaine.  I assure each of them that
ibogaine is not heroin or cocaine and that without the euphoria it will be a
tiring experience.  I am usually proven correct.  It is not uncommon for
benzodiazepines or melatonin to be provided for sleep depending on the p
rovider or predilections of the taker.  It should be noted however,
that younger, stronger subjects may recover in twenty-four hours and need no
sedation at all.

While kicking without withdrawal is amazing, the aspect of ibogaine where
craving is eliminated is an experience unknown in any other detox procedure.
By the second or third day most patients recognize that their desire for
heroin or other opioids has vanished and feel better than they did before
treatment.  I have seen heroin and methadone dependent persons after ibogaine
simply say over and over again that they just don’t believe that the desire
to use has simply vanished.  How long and with what intensity this effect
will last is dependent on a person by person basis.  Ibogaine effects are
interesting but, it is the ibogaine aftereffects that make it the
breakthrough medication it is.  I would suggest reading “Reflections of an
Ibogaine Experience” as an excellent self report of the ibogaine experience
(see list of cited web pages and end of article).

Ibogaine does cause systemic and motion related nausea but, it is
distinct from throwing up while being junk sick.  The best way to deal with
this is to administer an effective non-phenothiazine anti-nauseant and to
remain as motionless in bed as possible as any movement will likely as not
result in vomiting.  Examples of phenothiazine anti-nauseants that I would
advise not be taken as they may interfere with ibogaine are thorazine and
compazine.  Nausea is evident in about thirty percent of the people who take
ibogaine.  Ibogaine in opioid dependent and non-opioid dependent patients
alike will decrease the need to sleep to three to five hours a night.   This
generally diminishes over a month with eventual return to longer sleep
cycles.  Some people find this awake time valuable.  Others don’t like it at
all and some patients do not experience this effect.  Regardless of either
the nausea or inability to sleep heroin users and methadone patients who have
been treated with ibogaine consider it the most humane form of detox and
agree that no other therapy has the ability to interrupt craving.  Opiate
users have been in the forefront to demand ibogaine therapy.  You can’t get a
better recommendation than that.

Ibogaine appears to work in all neurohormonal systems where drugs of
abuse are having effects.  These include dopamine, serotonin, opiate,
adrenergic, nicotinic, muscarinic, NMDA, etc.  I would suggest anyone wishing
an in depth scientific evaluation of ibogaine read the Popik/Skolnick chapter
from Academic Press’s “The Alkaloids” that can be found in the Ibogaine
Dossier’s science section (see citations).

It should be noted that concurrent use of ibogaine and opiates or other
drugs may be lethal.  Three fatalities due to causes not conclusively
identified have been documented in ibogaine treated patients in the last
eleven years.  Ibogaine is an experimental medication and has not been
approved by the FDA.  The safest place to take ibogaine is in a hospital
setting.

***

Hospital administered, Ministry of Health approved Ibogaine Therapy

Dr. Edgardo Della Sera
Panama Ibogaine Project
CITA, SA
Clinica del Nino
Apdo 447
David, Chiriqui
Republic of Panama

fax #:   011 507 777-3579
email:  ibogaine@chiriqui.com

***

Interesting web pages

“Tripping on Iboga”,  Daniel Pinchbeck’s amazing story of his search to
experience iboga (Tabernanthe iboga) the source of ibogaine used in African
religious rituals. <http://www.salon.com/travel/feature/1999/11/03/iboga/>

Reflections of an Ibogaine Experience
<http://www.ibogaine.org/junkie.html>

Use in the treatment of chemical dependence
<http://www.Ibogaine.org/clin-perspectives.html>

Thorough scientific review of all ibogaine research.  Drs. Popik & Skolnick,
Academic Press, 1999. <http://www.ibogaine.org/alkaloids.html>

General Review of Ibogaine including history, chemistry, botany, ethnography.
<http://www.Ibogaine.org/Bwiti1.html>

Religious use in Bwiti religion of Africa
<http://www.Ibogaine.org/fernandez.html>
<http://www.ibogaine.org/barabe.html>

Discussion of plant and Bwiti initiations
<http://ibogaine.lycaeum.org/>

UK ibogaine scene and more
<http://www.ibogaine.co.uk>

Activist ibogaine site.
<http://www.cures-not-wars.org>

New York University School of Medicine Ibogaine Conference web page.
<http://www.med.nyu.edu/Psych/ibogaineconf/>
(The conference is over but, the web page remains an excellent source of
information.)

<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed>  (medline
search/National Medical Database) Excellent source of peer reviewed
scientific abstracts.

Any search engine, search term ibogaine

Internet Ibogaine List

An Ibogaine list has been established.  A list distributes messages from each
member who posts to all other members of the list.  The list will involve
itself in the discussion of all aspects of this experimental anti-addictive
and psychotherapeutic medication,  including that of persons treated,
pharmacology, the African experience in religion and medicine, neuroscience,
clinical reports, behavioral pharmacology, psychiatry, Ibogaine self-help
groups and more.

To join the list see instructions found at site below:

https://lists.calyx.nl/lists/listinfo/ibogaine

From: “Alison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Karina and reply from Paul Harvey
Date: September 4, 2002 at 7:36:35 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Just goes to show you learn something new all the time.  I didn’t even know
that leg tremors etc were callled ataxia.  I’ve never tried ibogaine, which
is why I’m reading & trying to learn stuff from this site.
but I know going cold turkey or doing it with any sort of calming phamacy
meds that will help is real hard and kicking legs etc.  are wicked, going on
past experiences.  I don’t  like methadone & reckon its harder to get off
than anything else but still use it at times so as I can go to work &
function whereas without it I would be still in bed feeling like rubbish and
wasting lots of my time being sick, yet again.  You’d think I’d learn but
the temptation is usually too much and the old vicious circle or cycle
starts again.  A day or two buzzing and going for it and then back to square
1 with lots less money and feeling like crap;
Does anyone know if you can get ibogaine in New Zealand.  Most of you seem
to be writing from UK or USA but no-one from over my side of the
world……Allison

—–Original Message—–
From: paul harvey <pauljackamo@hotmail.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Date: Sunday, 4 August 2002 06:17
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Karina ??

Karina >
I experienced ataxia (leg tremors especially) on the 2nd/3rd night
after taking ibogaine for a methadone/heroin habit. I think theres a great
need for exercise in the days after the treatment (i read this in the
ibogaine story too) as the tremors seemed to be greatly reduced when i
forced myself to go for a walk.
Though compared to when i came off methadone and heroin with a straight
cold
turkey, the discomfort of ataxia experienced post-ibogaine is nothing.
As for insomnia : from my own experience and the available data, it seems
that the need for sleep is greatly reduced post-ibogaine,but again,
compared
to coming off methadone the “normal” way, my sleep pattern re-established
itself within three weeks compared to the three  months it took me last
time
i came of methadone.
As other postings have said, just go with it, your body will get the sleep
it requires, however much you feel subjectively it isn’t.
and as for sleep medication : you are just prolonging the time it takes for
your body to fall back into its natural rhythm, i know that doesnt help
much
when youve greeted the dawn for the Xth time, but its true.
again,check out other forms of sleep therapy on the net : go for a walk,
no caffiene, breathing exercises, aromatherapy,melatonin, etc.
as for “craving” lsd. sometimes its good after a particularly heavy
psychedelic experience, like ibogaine, to spend sometime reconnecting to
consensus reality. don’t forget, if youve been on methadone for any length
of time, you have been “disconnected” from your self, others and the
universe for a long period.
as william burroughs said: “anything that can be acheived chemically, can
be
acheived by other means”.
sometimes we can forget that we dont always need to go “somewhere else”.
we can enjoy right where we are sitting now.
well done for going through it all – i remember that sometimes i had to
remind myself that i was/still am free of the methadone prison and that a
“miracle” of the iboga kind had occured – in terms of recovery rate
post ibogaine compared to the months of hell it took me to recover the old
fashioned way.

paul

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

From: Kingboki@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] the ibogaine emails are harrassing me all the time
Date: August 4, 2002 at 1:55:10 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

please take me off this list kind sirs.

From: Kingboki@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] the ibogaine emails are harrassing me all the time
Date: August 4, 2002 at 1:52:27 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

please take me off the ibogaine mailing list. thank you

From: Kingboki@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: List Changes
Date: August 4, 2002 at 1:32:23 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

is there any way possible to stop getting all the ibogaine email. other than
changing my screen name or commiting  hari kari?

From: Joatammmo23@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] to be more clear
Date: August 3, 2002 at 10:05:09 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dana

Was that meant to  be  sarcastic or just plain ignorant?  We have  so many addicts in the heartland  that need help and  can’t  get   it  (does that make  you  happy? and U  want  to belittle  some of the  the midwests largest cities.  What  makes you such  an  expert?

J.Ostergard

From: Joatammmo23@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] relaps ,
Date: August 3, 2002 at 9:41:55 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

BS  Sara

From: Joatammmo23@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] who is stupid ?
Date: August 3, 2002 at 9:14:23 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Randy,  I certainly hope that you aren’t  including  mentally challenged  humans as stupid???  Your Statement  makes me  furious, and  I  think that the next  time you  call  someone  or their parents stupid, U had better hope that you neve have a retarded  son  or daughter.
You  are the stupid one  passing judgement  on others.

J.Ostergard…Heartland  Regional Director/NAMA

From: Joatammmo23@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Eating the Patch…
Date: August 3, 2002 at 9:06:16 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Carla

I  couldn’t agree more.  There are addicts that learn their lesson and then there are the others  that  just don’t get  it.

From: Joatammmo23@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Eating the Patch…
Date: August 3, 2002 at 8:59:58 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Get a part  time job.  Selling your medication  to others is  an offense that you  wouldn’t  want  on your  record  I’m  sure.

I have  heard this time and  again, and  there is just no reason  for  this once you are stabalized, and if you can sell your medicine   I  don’t  believe that you even need it.

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Karina ??
Date: August 3, 2002 at 8:12:08 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Sat, Aug 03, 2002 at 01:29:56AM -0400], [Mzzthangg13@aol.com] wrote:

| hi i’m not seeking acid but craving it likre ctrazy  my doc has me on
| clonopin ambnen and seroquil i  am feeling better ……at least i can sleep
| now…….thsnks mfor writing talk to you soon karina

Hullo Karina,

That’s pretty much the standard cocktail people will throw at you
post-ibogaine, or post pretty much any detox — give it another day or
three and someone will come up with what a great idea it is to also toss
Trazodone into the mix, ‘cuz it makes ya dizzy/drowsy, might help ya
sleep, and probably won’t hurt much.

<Shrug>  Benzos for a few days would prolly help a lot more in my personal
observations, but people in the medical establishment are wary of giving
these to you because they’re a Real Drug and make you Go Crazy and Bang
Up, or sumthin’  This is the theory anyway.

Working out is great, it definitely helps a lot…  Inashmuch as LSD goes,
I uhm, really would just chill for a while instead of throwing even more
molecules into the mix.

Acid is a beautiful skeleton key that unlocks many things, but being real,
it REALLY depends on your attitude and what it means to you.  I’ve seen
very few people obtain positive benefits from just dosing themselves with
LSD.  Your intent, set, setting, attitude, all these things, actually make
a huge difference.  Most of the people I know who have done LSD can toss
it right into the following sentence, “so then after I had a few beers, I
said fuck it and ate some X, and figured why not candyflip and got acid,
and man was I going so we copped some crack and then I needed to come
down, and …”  In summary, people just use it as an excuse to line up a
series of disasters which will no longer be their fault, ‘cuz they were
crazy and on LSD, plus, also, have a Mysterious Disease.

Whut duz “I’m really craving acid,” mean to you anyway?  What doses have
you done, do you mean it’d be entertaining to watch things get melty and
see ColORs, or you want another hit of intense therapy, or you wanna
resynch with Godhead and let it resonate…

These are all different things, and none are direct cause and effect,
attributable to ingesting LSD.  All that guarantees you is synesthesia.

You can also tune to those places in lots of different ways besides LSD.

Whatever your choices, I’d just chill out and wait a while before making
them.  Dealing with “reality” on a daily basis without any narcotic
analgesics is pretty fucking trippy in itself.

Patrick

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: List Changes
Date: August 3, 2002 at 7:48:52 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Okay this list has been retuned a little.  Right now, this is how things
work.

If you are subscribed to the list, then you can freely post and send
messages here.  However the list name “ibogaine@mindvox.com” MUST be in
either the To: or Cc: fields of the envelope.  You CANNOT Bcc: the list,
or just connect to the SMTP port.

o The purpose of this is to auto-bounce 99% of the spam that would
otherwise land here.

If someone who is NOT a subscriber, sends mail into the list, it is NOT
implicty rejected and bounced out, but rather goes to the moderator(s) for
approval or deletion.

o This gets rid of almost all the remaining spam, but brings the
prospective letter to the attention of a Human Being.  Thus, for instance,
this is inspired by Preston & Andria’s DrugWar list; where many people
like to engage in discussions that are being cross-posted across the
mapinc, drc, maps, etc, anti-drug war lists.  The mail is NOT rejected,
but rather sits in the queue until it is manually released.

Right now the only moderator is me.  It’d be handy if one or two other
people — who have been here for the duration, and feel UP TO the task of
occasionally reading something and deciding whether or not it’s
appropriate — were also able to do this.

The general vibe is: TOLERANT, of crazy people, ideas, things.  Even if it
does not directly relate to ibogaine, or is a rant, or whatever, it’s
prolly okay to LET IT LOOSE and discuss or ignore it.  The only purpose
type thing, is to get rid of Just the Crap (the definition of crap in this
instance being: look pr0n!, get a bigger dick, make millions overnight, I
have a suitcase stuffed with 100,000 bills in my basement and Must Have
Your Help, become a certified Microsoft Engineer in only 12 minutes, etc).

– – – – – – – – –

If anyone feels it would be beneficial I can easily add a header or
trailer to the msgs as well, explaining where you are and how to get off
the list.  Although personally I think it just adds crap, if you can’t
read the headers, then either suffer or learn, since all this information
is already contained in Every Single Message sent out.

Dunno.  Open to input here.

– – – – – – – – –

If nobody has any input whatsoever, that’s fine too.  I’m just letting you
know what’s changed, since I’m re-tweaking all the lists, in a further
attempt to bounce out spam.

Oh yeah, this brings up Yet Another Option I would like opinions on:

I can automagically strip everything out of messages that is NOT text.
i.e., html formatting, MIME types, enclosed photos, and viruses, or any
other code, which comes through.

This is good, because, combined with all the other actions taken to change
the list, this pretty much kills ALL the spam, viruses, and other crap.

It is bad because MANY people who land here are stupid; I meant to say:
NOT computer experts.  They don’t understand MIME types, attachments, or
what that [x] Send as HTML? switch means…  This would kill all their
attempts to communicate and just automatically throw it in the garbage.

I could easily live without all that, but various people would get locked
out, so I sorta don’t want to do this.

Just saying,

Patrick

Brief summary: If you are not on this list, you can no longer send mail
INTO it, without having it released by hand.  The only person doing that
at the moment is me, but then it doesn’t matter that much, ‘cuz even if I
can’t read the list for a week, it just means that <whatever> will sit in
the queue until then.

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Karina ??
Date: August 3, 2002 at 7:29:02 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Karina that’s so great! 🙂 Congrats again!

Carla B

— Mzzthangg13@aol.com wrote:
Randy i am trying but i have always sicne 2nd grade
been hyper…….hey im
not cravomh heroin or methadone……and thanks for
calling

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health – Feel better, live better
http://health.yahoo.com

From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Karina ??
Date: August 3, 2002 at 6:02:55 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Randy i am trying but i have always sicne 2nd grade been hyper…….hey im not cravomh heroin or methadone……and thanks for calling

From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Karina ??
Date: August 3, 2002 at 6:00:51 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Paul I also have been forcing my self to wall……..insomnia doesn’t bother me but after the 5th dat I did get amben to sleep I;m a lite weight I cannot stand pain plus I was driving my op husband crazy  he only smokes weed he use to drink and do speed he woke up 2 weeks after we got married and quit and he so very good to me………..thank tyou for caring karina

From: “Randy Hencken” <randyhencken@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Karina ??
Date: August 3, 2002 at 2:45:43 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Karina,

Everyone here is giving you good advice.  Stay away from the doctors, eat well, exercise and know that your body will heal itself if you let it.  The more drugs you do, the more drugs you’ll be on.

Take it easy and relax,
Randy

From: “paul harvey” <pauljackamo@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Karina ??
Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2002 18:16:50 +0000

Karina >
I experienced ataxia (leg tremors especially) on the 2nd/3rd night
after taking ibogaine for a methadone/heroin habit. I think theres a great need for exercise in the days after the treatment (i read this in the ibogaine story too) as the tremors seemed to be greatly reduced when i forced myself to go for a walk.
Though compared to when i came off methadone and heroin with a straight cold turkey, the discomfort of ataxia experienced post-ibogaine is nothing.
As for insomnia : from my own experience and the available data, it seems that the need for sleep is greatly reduced post-ibogaine,but again, compared to coming off methadone the “normal” way, my sleep pattern re-established itself within three weeks compared to the three  months it took me last time i came of methadone.
As other postings have said, just go with it, your body will get the sleep it requires, however much you feel subjectively it isn’t.
and as for sleep medication : you are just prolonging the time it takes for your body to fall back into its natural rhythm, i know that doesnt help much when youve greeted the dawn for the Xth time, but its true.
again,check out other forms of sleep therapy on the net : go for a walk,
no caffiene, breathing exercises, aromatherapy,melatonin, etc.
as for “craving” lsd. sometimes its good after a particularly heavy psychedelic experience, like ibogaine, to spend sometime reconnecting to consensus reality. don’t forget, if youve been on methadone for any length of time, you have been “disconnected” from your self, others and the universe for a long period.
as william burroughs said: “anything that can be acheived chemically, can be acheived by other means”.
sometimes we can forget that we dont always need to go “somewhere else”.
we can enjoy right where we are sitting now.
well done for going through it all – i remember that sometimes i had to remind myself that i was/still am free of the methadone prison and that a “miracle” of the iboga kind had occured – in terms of recovery rate
post ibogaine compared to the months of hell it took me to recover the old fashioned way.

paul

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

From: “paul harvey” <pauljackamo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Karina ??
Date: August 3, 2002 at 2:16:50 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Karina >
I experienced ataxia (leg tremors especially) on the 2nd/3rd night
after taking ibogaine for a methadone/heroin habit. I think theres a great need for exercise in the days after the treatment (i read this in the ibogaine story too) as the tremors seemed to be greatly reduced when i forced myself to go for a walk.
Though compared to when i came off methadone and heroin with a straight cold turkey, the discomfort of ataxia experienced post-ibogaine is nothing.
As for insomnia : from my own experience and the available data, it seems that the need for sleep is greatly reduced post-ibogaine,but again, compared to coming off methadone the “normal” way, my sleep pattern re-established itself within three weeks compared to the three  months it took me last time i came of methadone.
As other postings have said, just go with it, your body will get the sleep it requires, however much you feel subjectively it isn’t.
and as for sleep medication : you are just prolonging the time it takes for your body to fall back into its natural rhythm, i know that doesnt help much when youve greeted the dawn for the Xth time, but its true.
again,check out other forms of sleep therapy on the net : go for a walk,
no caffiene, breathing exercises, aromatherapy,melatonin, etc.
as for “craving” lsd. sometimes its good after a particularly heavy psychedelic experience, like ibogaine, to spend sometime reconnecting to consensus reality. don’t forget, if youve been on methadone for any length of time, you have been “disconnected” from your self, others and the universe for a long period.
as william burroughs said: “anything that can be acheived chemically, can be acheived by other means”.
sometimes we can forget that we dont always need to go “somewhere else”.
we can enjoy right where we are sitting now.
well done for going through it all – i remember that sometimes i had to remind myself that i was/still am free of the methadone prison and that a “miracle” of the iboga kind had occured – in terms of recovery rate
post ibogaine compared to the months of hell it took me to recover the old fashioned way.

paul

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Karina ??
Date: August 3, 2002 at 1:29:56 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hi i’m not seeking acid but craving it likre ctrazy  my doc has me on clonopin ambnen and seroquil i  am feeling better ……at least i can sleep now…….thsnks mfor writing talk to you soon karina

From: vector6@space.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Karina ??
Date: August 3, 2002 at 1:23:02 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You might want to ask Patrick that, I think he’s
conducted extensive research on exactly that topic.

Only a guess I mean 🙂

.:vector:.

Brett Calabrese wrote:

— Mzzthangg13@aol.com wrote:
&gt; hi i went to the doctor and got amben for sleep
so
&gt; it’s all good  im  weak
&gt; but i have been craving lsd so bad but i do not
know
&gt; where tro get it   here

Karina,

It might be a good idea to practice not seeking out or
put drugs in your body, at least for a while. Keep in
mind that because you have done ibo the experience
(with acid or other drugs) could be altered or
intensified (I have not heard anything about acid and
ibo specifically though).

___________________________________________________________________
Join the Space Program: Get FREE E-mail at http://www.space.com.

From: Kingboki@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Karina ??
Date: August 3, 2002 at 1:21:47 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

From: vector6@space.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Karina ??
Date: August 3, 2002 at 1:21:08 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Cool! Morisson instead of the Bwiti. That’s is so great. Way to go! .:vector:. Mzzthangg13@aol.com wrote: hi i went to the doctor and got amben for sleep so it’s all good  im  weak but i have been craving lsd so bad but i do not know where tro get it   here on reno  that’sgood…….. see  have  been a jim morrison fan for  20 years and i saw him whewn i did the ibogaine what a trrip huh?????  but i am feeling alot better……..any other question email me kariina
___________________________________________________________________
Join the Space Program: Get FREE E-mail at http://www.space.com.

From: Kingboki@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Karina ??
Date: August 3, 2002 at 1:19:03 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

please stop ibogaine e mails

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Karina ??
Date: August 3, 2002 at 1:11:34 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— Mzzthangg13@aol.com wrote:
hi i went to the doctor and got amben for sleep so
it’s all good  im  weak
but i have been craving lsd so bad but i do not know
where tro get it   here

Karina,

It might be a good idea to practice not seeking out or
put drugs in your body, at least for a while. Keep in
mind that because you have done ibo the experience
(with acid or other drugs) could be altered or
intensified (I have not heard anything about acid and
ibo specifically though).

Brett

on reno  that’sgood…….. see  have  been a jim
morrison fan for  20 years
and i saw him whewn i did the ibogaine what a trrip
huh?????  but i am
feeling alot better……..any other question email
me kariina

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health – Feel better, live better
http://health.yahoo.com

From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Karina ??
Date: August 3, 2002 at 12:48:58 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hi i went to the doctor and got amben for sleep so it’s all good  im  weak but i have been craving lsd so bad but i do not know where tro get it   here on reno  that’sgood…….. see  have  been a jim morrison fan for  20 years and i saw him whewn i did the ibogaine what a trrip huh?????  but i am feeling alot better……..any other question email me kariina

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] bl1p
Date: August 2, 2002 at 9:05:23 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com, drugwar@mindvox.com, vox@mindvox.com, bk@mindvox.com, kotas4christ@mindvox.com, crashtestdummies@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

MindVox is once again re-synchronized with the Prime Material Plane —
amongst others.  All is well.  Unless some shit’s broke, in which case,
bummer mahn, it’ll get fixed.  But not right now, right now I’m going out.

May the Power Computer bless you.

Patrick

From: Andria Efthimiou-Mordaunt <AndriaEM@drugscope.org.uk>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Karina ??
Date: August 2, 2002 at 9:02:57 AM EDT
To: “‘ibogaine@mindvox.com'” <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Karina

I expereinced some insomnia for weeks during my last detox. What I did was
surrender to it in the end. Well, i thought my body has so much energy, it
doesn’t want to sleep, therefore, I will listen to relaxing music, and
stroll around my flat, and kiss the photos of those I love and, and and! The
light at the end of the tunnel came on the 30th day roughly when I found
myself cycling for 8 miles to the day treatment centre i was in. Cool!

You’re a heroinE, and inspiring –

From over the Pond in London

Andria E-Mordaunt

Users Voice Editor
John Mordaunt Trust Director

C/O Drugscope,  32 Loman St, London, SE1 OEE, U.K
0+ 44 (0)207 928 1211 Tel
0+ 44 (0)207 922 8780  Fax

E-mail
Usersvoice.jmt@drugscope.org.uk

—–Original Message—–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com [mailto:HSLotsof@aol.com]
Sent: 31 July 2002 16:54
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Karina ??

In a message dated 7/31/02 12:02:40 AM, Mzzthangg13@aol.com writes:

hi i just did ibogaine i loved it……..the only problem i did not stay
long
enough i felt fine the day i left but the 2nd day i went into methadone
withdrawals i wanted to cut my legs off the pain was so severe i went to
the  ER 6 times but now  i have no withdrawals jut insomnia      i  can
handle
it…………the people that are on crack, cocaine speed do not do through
physical withdrawal  and the have an easier time of OT  any more questions
email me Karin

Karina,

How far apart where you ER visits and what did they do for you.  If they
gave
you any medications could you tell us what they were.  Anything you can tell

us will be valuable to anyone who is involved with ibogaine therapy.

Howard

From: Andria Efthimiou-Mordaunt <AndriaEM@drugscope.org.uk>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] the CRACK incentive
Date: August 2, 2002 at 8:49:48 AM EDT
To: “‘ibogaine@mindvox.com'” <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Rebecca,

You make some interesting and cogent points

Let me pick you up on the legalisation issue though.

I support it for 2 main reasons:
1) I do not want this planet to be continued 2 be run by gangsters, mafia
types
2) I think drugs is a matter of Public Health, Science/Research and

Your concerns about increased drug-use are not only legitimate but shared by
millions of people. Sadly, I, nor any of us, can reassure u that this will
not happen. What we can safely say though, is this: there will be less
drug-related harm, i.e. death, disease and crime because of the regulation
that will come about

e.g. u and I out on the streets shooting dope – in the ‘new world’ we would
have clean needles, clean dope etc until we got bored of the constipation
and gave up!!(Or whatever)There would still be drug services that would
promote safer use of needles, drugs in general; i.e NOT sharing, so people
like us, who were/are vulnerable would still be given care.

The same for all the other drugs

Meanwhile, the drugs would be taxed, and some of the profits made could be
used to expand drug treatment where necessary. It is the latter point that I
would need further educating on, as (I spoke to a British Lord, ex-addict
living with HCV, and he indicated that those taxes wouldn’t necessarily be
used for treatment. The govt (as per usual) would decide

I hope this helps ya a bit Rebecca

Best Wishes from over the Pond

Andria E-Mordaunt
Users Voice Editor
John Mordaunt Trust Director

C/O Drugscope,  32 Loman St, London, SE1 OEE, U.K
0+ 44 (0)207 928 1211 Tel
0+ 44 (0)207 922 8780  Fax

E-mail
Usersvoice.jmt@drugscope.org.uk

—–Original Message—–
From: Rebecca Silverman [mailto:becca_vail@hotmail.com]
Sent: 31 July 2002 04:06
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] the CRACK incentive

I’m just now reading my ibogaine folder so I don’t mean to restart a convo
that made so many people jump down each others throats but to give one more
woman’s opinion I don’t get the problem. Or yes I do, but not like why it’s
the end of the world.

Offering $200 to someone who has no money and is on drugs will probably
motivate them to get that money so they can do more drugs. I’m sure that
CRACK knows that and that’s the whole point of offering it.

I think patrick and preston agreed that it’s not a lot of money and for
someone to sit around and wait for that while they are sterilized, they
would find some other way to get money instead, which I also agree with.

Someone else brought up how what should happen is that person should be
offered treatment. Which made me laugh a little because when I was out there

I think one thing I learned is that not all of them, but most of the people
who are out there, want to be. They don’t want treatment they want more
drugs. Should they be forcibly helped against their will??

To all the people who got so upset about the potential of killing babies
that don’t exist, how do you feel about abortion? I don’t get the problem at

all. Sorry.

I don’t see the big problem with the incentive and I don’t see any simple
solution either because I don’t completely side with Patrick and all the
other legalise everything people because I think that would surely increase
drug use at the same time I do think everyone has the right to make their
own choices.

Have a great day all.

_________________________________________________________________
Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com

From: stonedhead@popmail.com
Subject: [ibogaine] dosage
Date: August 2, 2002 at 8:35:02 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

i need some help on the right dosage of ibogaine for psychological use. thanks for your help.

………………………………
Get your own free email account from
http://www.popmail.com

From: Joatammmo23@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This Generation Needs a Paranoid’s Paranoid
Date: August 1, 2002 at 9:19:07 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

NeuroSkull why are you so intrigued by skulls?  And what is RLS?

From: “Joshua Tinnin” <krinklyfig@myrealbox.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ALERT: Write ABC in Support of Stossel from DRCNet
Date: August 1, 2002 at 7:46:21 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: “Brett Calabrese” <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>

Anyone else see it?

I have 2 words, “ABOUT TIME”.

Yes, it was excellent. Unprecedented, even. It went as far as a prime time
major network news presentation could go with the “big question” about the
validity of the War on Drugs … without Stossel getting canned, that is. I
haven’t seen another major media news piece like it, especially not a whole
hour devoted to it.

BTW, here are a couple more alerts (below) sent about this show – the second
one is pretty much what the DRC sent, but it’s from the Libertarian Party,
which is taking on the War on Drugs as their primary issue.

– jt

—– Original Message —–
From: “Ralph Sherrow” <ralphkat@attbi.com>

Dear all, you may reach a comment line for the John Stossel Documentary “War
on Drugs: A War on Ourselves by calling 212-456-7777 and comment between the
hours of 11:30 & 1:30 and again at 4 to 6pm monday thru friday.  You wont
have much time so spit it out, I did.  An operator will connect you so you
can leave a message.

Please call them and let them know you support what they did with the John
Stossel “A War on Ourselves” to offset the letter writing campaign by
washington and let ABC know you like the truth and it should be aired again
along with any other truth’s.    Oh BTW, fuck the letter-writers in
washington.  Let’s show ABC that we care.  Give ’em a call.  Ralph

—– Original Message —–
From: “Libertarian Party HQ” <owner-dwtf@hq.lp.org>

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—–

=================================
DRUG WAR TASK FORCE ALERT
A Project of the Libertarian Party
http://www.lp.org/issues/dwtf.html
=================================
For additional information:
Marc Brandl, DWTF Rep.
Phone: (202) 333-0008 Ext. 237
E-Mail: StoptheDrugWar@hq.lp.org
=================================

Don’t let ABC regret running John Stossel’s anti-Drug War piece!

Many of you likely heard about or watched John Stossel’s provocative
segment, “The War on Drugs: A War on Ourselves?” which aired on ABC on
Tuesday night.  The segment featured credible sources talking at length
about the need to end the War on Drugs, focusing on the idea that drug
prohibition causes more problems than drugs themselves ever could.

Seeing a segment like this run on major-network broadcast TV was an almost
unparalleled breakthrough for the drug reform movement – and the drug
warriors knew it.

And now they’re trying to make ABC regret it – something we need your help
to stop from happening.

Drug warriors know what a threat pieces like John Stossel’s will be to their
power if allowed to continue, so they’ve begun applying heat to ABC, from
the very top, for even running this piece.

We need you to let ABC know that running a segment like Stossel’s is not
just safe, but is encouraged by members of the public.  If you have just a
few minutes, you can minimize this window, write and mail a letter to the
President of ABC News, and help ensure that the breakthrough success we just
witnessed continues in mainstream American media.

You should write a physical letter because this is such an important
effort – and because the drug warriors are asking all of their supporters to
write real letters.  Because E-mails can be replicated and sent so quickly,
they bear much less weight in the eyes of their recipients than a physical
letter, which requires a few more moments of time and effort.

Please, take those few moments right when you finish this E-mail and send a
letter to:

David Westin, President, ABC News
47 W 66th St.
New York, NY  10023

Simply use your letter to let Mr. Westin know that you appreciated John
Stossel’s segment, and would love to see more like it in the future on ABC.
Check out the bottom of this E-mail for a sample letter. If you missed the
segment, you can check out

http://www.abcnews.go.com/onair/2020/stossel_drugs_020730.html

to see what Stossel had to say about the failed War on Drugs.

Don’t let the drug warriors take this achievement away from us, right when
it’s gaining the most momentum.  Take just a few minutes and write this
letter.  Again, the address:

David Westin, President, ABC News
47 W 66th St.
New York, NY  10023

Thank you.

Sincerely,

Marc Brandl
Drug War Task Force Rep.
Libertarian Party
StopTheDrugWar@hq.LP.org
(202) 333-0008, ext. 237

– ———-SAMPLE LETTER———–

Dear Mr. Westin,

I wanted to thank you for your excellent choice to air John Stossel’s
segment entitled “The War on Drugs: A War on Ourselves” on Tuesday, July
30th.  I found it to be a fresh, engaging look at the issue of drug policy,
and I believe it represented a level of journalistic integrity that has not
been seen on the issue of drug reform for quite some time.

I hope you will not believe any who might tell you that airing Mr. Stossel’s
piece was a poor choice.  Indeed, it is of the utmost importance that
Americans see both sides of an issue that has gone practically uncontested
for far too long.

Thank you again for your choice in programming like John Stossel’s.  I
sincerely hope that ABC News will continue this level of quality analysis in
the future, and I will be watching more frequently in the hope that it does.

Sincerely,

– ———–END SAMPLE————-

Modify the above sample letter in any way you see fit – it’s only a starting
point.  But please send some form of it to ABC News today and let them know
that they did the right thing!  Thank you!

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—–
Version: 2.6.2

iQCVAwUBPUmnVNCSe1KnQG7RAQEI9wP+MSrfL6lONFjiyY0cPFBO3qkRG9Z4a7d+
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i2LLQpqUbTk=
=MXgS
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———————————————————————–
The Libertarian Party                                http://www.lp.org/
2600 Virginia Ave. NW, Suite 100                    voice: 202-333-0008
Washington DC 20037                                   fax: 202-333-0072
———————————————————————–

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Washington Post Phil Dick Revue sets off anti-Drugs Blast from Psychic…
Date: August 1, 2002 at 2:26:02 PM EDT
To: philipkdick@yahoogroups.com
Cc: dansmith@clark.net, lensman@stardrive.org, hward@wineshopper.com, Mark@k-dunn.freeserve.co.uk, IMDJam@cs.com, gbekkum@mediaone.net, Gary@osborn-day.freeserve.co.uk, gschwart@u.arizona.edu, e-merrill2@ti.com, “Bob Ezergailis” <morpheal@bserv.com>, “cynthia ford” <maruta@wco.com>, “G. G. Ford” <swimp@shaw.ca>, <brumac@compuserve.com>, <yokatta@oxy.edu>, <kklingon@cwcom.net>, <cyrano@aqua.ocn.ne.jp>, “Adrian” <afme@ihug.co.nz>, dewatson@sunflower.com, CloudRider@aol.com, JagdishM@aol.com, phylegyas@hotmail.com, schwann@webtrance.co.za, ibogalab@hotmail.com, zentarot@hotmail.com, Paul DeRienzo <pdr@echonyc.com>, Stews@radiks.net, foozleman@worldnet.att.net, bmasel@tds.net, heff01@email.msn.com, kingfelix@mediaone.net, PTPEET@cs.com, luxefair@bellsouth.net, cardboard_dada@yahoo.com, prophets@maui.net, m.pilkington@virgin.net, PCLARK@JJHILL.ORG, delaneyw@shasta.com, Edward Jahn <ejahn@barnard.edu>, derlock@mailexcite.com, “Andre Welling” <andre.welling@db.com>, Mitchel Cohen <mitchelcohen@mindspring.com>, “MUTANEX Command HAWAI’I” <mutanex@aloha.net>, miriamwhite420@hotmail.com, ibogaine@mindvox.com, Nick Sandberg <nick.sandberg@virgin.net>, George Clayton Johnson <hempjack@earthlink.net>, axiom@greatmystery.org, dancegroove@nyc.rr.com, “warcry@indymedia.org” <warcrycinema@yahoo.com>, “Jay Statzer” <jstatzer@qtm.net>, “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hometown of Eugenia Macer-Story (Magick Mirror) Placed under Ibogaine “Interdict”

From: Thorn Alley <thornalley2002@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Bishop Pike and the Transmigration]
To: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Cc: “Gary G. Ford” <swimp@shaw.ca>, MT <mthorn@ix.netcom.com>

“… One must speculate as to the effects of these
combined events on Phil’s mind on that fateful
February day in 1974. Phil’s interest in early
Christianity, and his friendship with James A. Pike,
the Episcopal Bishop of California, dating back to
the mid-sixties, has been well-documented in
several of his novels. Could this combination of
circumstances culminate in the results
that were to follow?”
http://www.alphane.com/moon/PalmTree/2-3-74.htm

5meoDMT, 5-Methoxy N,N, Dimethyltryptamin
http://www.akasha.de/~aton/5-meo-dmt.gif

Entheogens in Christianity
http://www.bluehoney.org/EntheoChrist.htm
“… the poor could never afford to buy a hit of ergot
to experience ego death, unity consciousness, and
heaven-on-earth. But Jesus gave them ergot for free,
so that they could experience ego death, and the
priests — who had a thriving business — were
infuriated and seriously threatened…”
http://www.bluehoney.org/EntheoChrist.htm

The Origins of Christianity and
the Quest for the Historical Jesus Christ
by Acharya S:
http://www.truthbeknown.com/origins.htm

There are twenty four pathways which connect the Nine Worlds.
There are twenty four Runes in the Elder Futhark .
The “Eagle” is at the highest branches of Yggdrasil
“Nidhog” is the dragon at the root of Yggdrasil, and
“Ratatosk” is the Squirrel who communicates
between “Nidhog” and the “Eagle”
The notion of “Nine Worlds” is archetypal
http://pw1.netcom.com/~mthorn/runes_mt.htm

“…These comprise the nine most important prophecies
of the Hopis, connected with the creation of the nine
worlds: the three previous worlds on which we lived,
the present Fourth World, the three future worlds we
have yet to experience, and the world of Taiowa, the
Creator, and his nephew, Sotuknang.”
[From The Book of the Hopi by Frank Waters]
http://www.dreamscape.com/morgana/pan.htm

“Near the day of the Great Purification,
there will be cobwebs spun
back and forth in the sky.”

“The Purification will begin shortly
after humans build a great house in
the sky. By then there will be fires
everywhere and greedy, selfish,
power-mad leaders, internal wars.”

— pre-Colombian Hopi prophecies
http://deoxy.org/omega.htm

“It ain’t over ’til it’s over.” Yogi Berra
_____________________

From: MagickMirr@aol.com
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 23:02:13 EDT
Subject: Re: PKD washington post article–with a correction–no drug groupies please
To: dana@cures-not-wars.org
Status:
In a message dated 7/31/2002 5:20:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, dana@cures-not-wars.org writes:
“I like to build universes that do fall apart,”
Dick wrote, because “objects, customs, habits, and ways
of life must perish so that the authentic human
being can live. And it is the authentic human being
who matters most, the viable, elastic organism
that can bounce back, absorb, and deal with the new.”

OK, Dana–
Please accept the fact that I not not now and never have used drugs for any type of consciousness expansion. I have the natural gift of “second sight” as do many of my relatives. It is inconsiderate to keep sending me drug-related correspondence when I have politely made this point again & again. I do not send YOU unsolicited anti-drug posts.
Best–Eugenia Macer-Story

[If you don’t want the tree of life, we can arrange that your location is among the last to gain access.   –Ed]
___________

From: William & Sharon Sarill <email suppressed>
X-Accept-Language: en-us
To: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: Re: Bishop Pike and the Transmigration
Status:
Dear Dana,

No I don’t have any good info on Pike, but I do on Syrian rue and immortality. The harmala plant extracts seem to be linked with alchemy. See http://phoenix.akasha.de/~aton/PINEALpower.html . Also http://phoenix.akasha.de/~aton/Somagenics.html . Note the information on pinoline, a harmala-related pineal hormone which I have researched. The connection with immortality and alchemy has to do with the “monatomic” elements mentioned on the pineal power page. Another name for these elements is Ormus. Check out the following if you have the patience: http://www.subtleenergies.com/ormus/whatisit.htm . Ormus is the connection between the white powder gold (spiritually transmuted gold of the ancients), the Philosopher’s Stone, manna, shewbread, the Golden Nectar of the Taoists, and a zillion other things. It’s superconducting and exists as a Bose-Einstein condensate (even if Jack Sarfatti doesn’t believe it). And it evidently confers immortality. Harmaline and related beta-carbolines such as pinoline evidently trap Ormus elements in their conjugated ring systems. Actual age regression, not merely immortality, is possible. I’ll let you know when I get there. Ubik lives!

–Bill Sarill
__________________

From: MagickMirr@aol.com
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 02:27:57 EDT
Subject: Re: Just… Look at these websites, is all I’m saying…==nope
To: dana@cures-not-wars.org
Status:

You and your ilk are saying that all it takes to achieve enlightenment is to pop a powdered pill. Nope. But this stuff rebounds on the perpetrators. Wallow in your own stupidity & do not send any more emails about orrmo-coke.

[So– I renew my offer, to cut off all addicts within twentyfive miles of where you’re located from Ibogaine access.

We will place your county under interdict, like the Church did in CONNECTICUT YANKEE IN KING ARTHUR’S COURT.

Wouldn’t want to do anything to shake up yr worldview.

Just where was that?

Dana/cnw]

P.S.: If you think Eugenia’s attitudes are selfish and elitist, you may email her at <MagickMirr@aol.com>, but she has been removed from the cc of this occasional post.

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] a Disturbance in The Force
Date: August 1, 2002 at 6:05:08 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Cool! So after 5 months of arriving any minute now,
any minute has finally come for Mindvox beta 🙂

Congratulations! And thanks for posting. Yahoo works
so awfully right now it’s not even funny and they
don’t even acknowledge it’s becoming a wreck.

Carla B

— digital@phantom.com wrote:

Hell is in the process of freezing over and
something Extremely Large is
Rising frum tha Ashes in the background.  Vox Beta
is lighting up.  Mail
injection may stop working for periods of 10-15
minutes.  Basically,
MindVox has a loaded syringe with 5 bags in the
barrel and is trying to
get a hit, so DON’T DISTURB IT!

No mail is lost or destroyed.  If you post to a
list, and do not see your
message RIGHT AWAY, you don’t need to repost it.  It
queues up, and
arrives shortly thereafter.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health – Feel better, live better
http://health.yahoo.com

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] ALERT: Write ABC in Support of Stossel from DRCNet
Date: August 1, 2002 at 5:29:05 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Anyone else see it?

I have 2 words, “ABOUT TIME”.

Brett

From: “DRCNet” <drcnet@drcnet.org>

Dear friend of drug reform:

On Tuesday of this week (July 30, 2002), ABC News
aired a
breakthrough special on the drug war and discussion of
legalization by John Stossel.  The one hour report,
titled “Just
Say No: Government’s War on Drugs Fails,” included
interviews of
California judge James P. Gray, Detroit police chief
Jerry
Oliver, New York priest Father Joe Kane, drug reform
advocate
Sanho Tree of the Institute for Policy Studies, DEA
chief Asa
Hutchison and others.

Drug warrior organizations like the Community
Anti-Drug
Coalitions of America (which is more rabidly
prohibitionist than
many of its members) are now waging a letter writing
campaign to
ABC to pressure them against questioning drug war
dogma in the
future.  Your help is needed to show ABC that good
drug war
reporting like Stossel’s is not only appreciated by
viewers but
is needed.

Please write a letter in support of the Stossel
special to:

David Westin, President
ABC News
47 West 66th Street
New York, NY 10023

Please fax us a copy of your letter to (202) 293-8344
or mail a
copy to: DRCNet, 2000 P St., NW, Suite 210,
Washington, DC 20036.

If you don’t have time to write a paper letter (the
most
effective method for making an impression), please
visit
http://abcnews.go.com/service/Help/abcmail.html to
submit your
comments to ABC News online.  You can also visit
http://boards.abcnews.go.com/cgi/abcnews/request.dll?LIST&room=stossel
to state and discuss your views on ABC’s web board
devoted to the
Stossel special.

DRCNet will provide info on ordering a video of the
program in
the near future.  In the meantime, you can read an
excerpt from
it at
http://abcnews.go.com/onair/2020/stossel_drugs_020730.html
online.

The following is a sample letter you can use
(preferably modified
and personalized) in your communication to ABC,
provided by Marc
Brandl of the Libertarian Party’s Drug War Task Force:

———– SAMPLE LETTER ———–

Dear Mr. Westin:

I wanted to thank you for your excellent choice to air
John
Stossel’s segment entitled “The War on Drugs: A War on
Ourselves”
on Tuesday, July 30th.  I found it to be a fresh,
engaging look
at the issue of drug policy, and I believe it
represented a level
of journalistic integrity that has not been seen on
the issue of
drug reform for quite some time.

I hope you will not believe any who might tell you
that airing
Mr. Stossel’s piece was a poor choice.  Indeed, it is
of the
utmost importance that Americans see both sides of an
issue that
has gone practically uncontested for far too long.

Thank you again for your choice in programming like
John
Stossel’s.  I sincerely hope that ABC News will
continue this
level of quality analysis in the future, and I will be
watching
more frequently in the hope that it does.

Sincerely,

{sign your name here}

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health – Feel better, live better
http://health.yahoo.com

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] One More Msg.
Date: August 1, 2002 at 4:44:19 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com, drugwar@mindvox.com, vox@mindvox.com, bk@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

We need to reorganize machines and servers; at roughly 7pm EST everything
will flip over to another switch.  We will actually be offline for roughly
15 minutes.  However, depending on how fast your DNS refreshes cache, you
may not be able to find us for a period of 3-12 hours (whatever amount of
time it takes your DNS to find our new, main IP).

Patrick

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] a Disturbance in The Force
Date: August 1, 2002 at 3:58:28 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com, drugwar@mindvox.com, crashtestdummies@mindvox.com, vox@mindvox.com, bk@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hell is in the process of freezing over and something Extremely Large is
Rising frum tha Ashes in the background.  Vox Beta is lighting up.  Mail
injection may stop working for periods of 10-15 minutes.  Basically,
MindVox has a loaded syringe with 5 bags in the barrel and is trying to
get a hit, so DON’T DISTURB IT!

No mail is lost or destroyed.  If you post to a list, and do not see your
message RIGHT AWAY, you don’t need to repost it.  It queues up, and
arrives shortly thereafter.

All lists will be changed in the near future so no one outside of the
list, may post to it.  This will get rid of the remaining spam that is
landing.  In SOME CASES it is desirable to cross-post across various
lists, so the messages will not be implicity rejected, but flagged for
moderator approval.  This means whomever is running the list has to look
at the message and has the option of releasing it, or deleting it.

This applies to all lists, except the vox list.  Welcome to the W1ld w3st,
we doan’ care mahn, nobody is moderating that one.

If mail isn’t working, I’m aware, my mail lives here too.  If you have
some sort of recurring problem, please send mail to: voxadm@mindvox.com
DO NOT send any other mail to this address, thank you.

p.s., Most of this should have no effect on the lower volume, lower
traffic lists which receive no more than 20 or 30 msgs a day.  In other
words mostly the people on Drugwar will notice if there is a problem =)

Patrick

From: Joatammmo23@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] [Fwd: Bishop Pike and the Transmigration]
Date: August 1, 2002 at 2:55:41 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Come on!  Aren’t you going off on a tangent?

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] DANIEL KARGBO. ibogaine !
Date: August 1, 2002 at 1:09:13 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Thu, Aug 01, 2002 at 10:56:04AM +0200], [David  Kargbou] wrote:

|  ibogaine ,
|
| From;Mr.David  Kargbou and Family,
|          Johannesburg,South Africa.
|
| My Dear ,

Hullo,

In case you didn’t know already; this is just crap.  Ignore it.

I will tighten up some of the filters, look at all the lists, read some of
them, etc.  Sorry, Vox beta just went into beta, and all attention is
focused elsewhere right now.

Best wishes to all — I will read my mail any day now =)

Patrick

From: “Joshua Tinnin” <krinklyfig@myrealbox.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] testing
Date: August 1, 2002 at 1:01:57 PM EDT
To: “Ibogaine” <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

testing, please ignore – problems with my email address and being bounced
off lists …

– jt

From: “David Kargbou” <david_karg20@mail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] DANIEL KARGBO. ibogaine !
Date: August 1, 2002 at 4:56:04 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

ibogaine ,

From;Mr.David  Kargbou and Family,
Johannesburg,South Africa.

My Dear ,

Good day.This very confidential request should come as a surprise to you.But it is because of the nature of what is happening to me and my family urged me to contact you, and I quite understand that this is not the best way to contact you because of the nature of my request and the attention it requires.I got your contact information from your country’s information directory during my desperate search for someone who can assist me secretly and confidentially in relocating and managing some family fortunes.
My name is Mr.David  Kargbou,the second son of Mr.Smith Thabo Kargbou,of Beithbridge Zimbabwe.At the height of the present political crises in our country,in which the white farmers in our country are being slained and ripped off their belongings by the supporters of our president,Mr.Robert G.Mugabe,in their efforts to reclaim all the white owned farms in our country,my father and my elder brother were brutally slained to a painful death on the 13th of february,2002, in their struggle to protect some white farmers who ran to take refuge in our house.My father,during his life on earth was a prominent business man who trades on diamond and gold from some foreign countries .He publicly opposes the crude policies and crime against humanity on the white farmers by Mr.Robert Mugabe and his followers,which they enforced media law restrictions to protect their wicked acts.That not being enough,the president and his followers after winning the last undemocratic elections decided to block and confiscate all accounts and assets of our black indigenes[that included my fathers assets and accounts] who oppose his policies and render support to these white farmers,along with the assets of these white farmers themselves,that are being presently confiscated.I therefore decided to move my mother and younger sister to the Republic of South Africa,where we presently live without anything and without any source of livelyhood.
During my fathers life on earth,he had deposited the sum of Seven Million and Four Hundred Thousand United States Dollars[$7.400.000.00]in a Trunk box with a Finance and Security Company in the Republic of Togo for a cash and carry Diamond and Gold business with some foreign business customers, awaiting instructions to be moved to its destination,which he never completed before he met his untimely death on that faithful day.In view of this and as the only surviving son of my father,and with the present clamp down,killing and confiscation of his assets as one of those who render support to the white farmers in our country,I therefore humbly wish to inform you of my intentions to use your name and adress in making sure that this fund is lifted out of Africa finally,to the Europe office of the finance company and also seek for your honest and trustworthy assistance to help me clear and accommodate this money over there before it is dictated out and blocked by the present Mugabe’s regime.My mother is presently with the valid document covering this deposit.

Now this is what I actually want you to do for me;

1. I want you to be presented to the Finance and Security company as the person I contacted to assist my family for this purpose, with whose name and adress myself and my mother will forward to them their office in the Republic of Togo as the person that will clear this money when they lift it out to their europe office.
2. To finally assist me in accommodating and managing this money in any lucrative business in your country for at least three years.
Please,I hope you will grant and view this very request with favour and much understanding of our situation now,and will be a very honest and reliable person to deal with.And also bearing in mind the confidential nature of this my request,I emphasize please that you keep every bit of it to yourself so as to protect my familys future and yourself rendering this help.Thanking you in anticipation of your urgent response as soon as you read this very request.

Best Regards,
Mr.David Kargbo and family.

From: “David Kargbou” <david_karg20@mail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] DANIEL KARGBO. ibogaine !
Date: August 1, 2002 at 4:14:07 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

ibogaine ,

From;Mr.David  Kargbou and Family,
Johannesburg,South Africa.

My Dear ,

Good day.This very confidential request should come as a surprise to you.But it is because of the nature of what is happening to me and my family urged me to contact you, and I quite understand that this is not the best way to contact you because of the nature of my request and the attention it requires.I got your contact information from your country’s information directory during my desperate search for someone who can assist me secretly and confidentially in relocating and managing some family fortunes.
My name is Mr.David  Kargbou,the second son of Mr.Smith Thabo Kargbou,of Beithbridge Zimbabwe.At the height of the present political crises in our country,in which the white farmers in our country are being slained and ripped off their belongings by the supporters of our president,Mr.Robert G.Mugabe,in their efforts to reclaim all the white owned farms in our country,my father and my elder brother were brutally slained to a p