Ibogaine List Archives - 2004-06

From: CrookedEye420@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Sara’s web site down?help needed
Date: June 30, 2004 at 11:56:50 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 6/24/2004 12:11:42 AM Eastern Daylight Time, HSLotsof@aol.com writes:
The web page is missing as are the search engine citations. There used to be
a second webpage address for sara’s web page but, I cannot find that as well.
Any news of sara appreciated.

Howard
I couldn’t access her webpage which was http://www.sarashouse.tk but her email address is sara119@xs4all.nl if anyone needs to contact her and she belongs to the list.
Shawn

From: Nowwarat@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] detox
Date: June 30, 2004 at 11:53:36 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The problem I would have with this is I can’t imagine someone going through this with a busy life and people depending on you while your tapering off.

I only have respect for you. The commitment and determination to see this through is amazing.

It is beyond what I could manage. Nor would I want to try. Perhaps I’ve gone soft over the years. I hate, and I mean hate pain and discomfort! Imagine “Dirty Harry” now imagine the opposite. That’s me.

Nowwarat

From: CrookedEye420@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: June 30, 2004 at 11:28:38 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

BTW, I could get down to 20 mg of met but no matter how slowly I tried to go below 20 mg w/d would start

Once you get as low as you can, then keep it there until you are used to it. Once you are, start the taper again and do no more than 2 mgs every two weeks. It won’t have you feeling great but there is no way to escape addiction without some discomfort. When it gets too much to handle then raise it a few mgs or stop tapering til you can stand it. This is the only way to taper off of methadone. No matter how slow it goes, you will get some minor withdrawal, no matter what. Ibogaine takes most of that away, though, so it feels like you’re already a couple days or weeks after a detox. I didn’t feel great during my taper but when I got to 30mgs, I really felt it. So I stopped going down for about a month or two, then I resumed. When I got down to 12mgs, then I felt crappy for the evening and mornings before my dose and I couldn’t sleep without a heavy dose of Cannabis. That is when I went for my Iboga experience. The thing is, there was a guy there at Sara’s that came off of 140mgs and he was doing just as good as me, if not better, without the long slow process of tapering and not feeling great the whole time. If Iboga isn’t an option or you’re not ready to try it, then I’d suggest the slow taper or maybe try bupe, but I did a bupe detox and when I got home, I used immediately because of the discomfort. Possibly a longer taper from bupe would have been less painful but they were only doing the bupe detox at the time. Good luck!
Shawn
From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: June 30, 2004 at 8:21:45 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thank you very much Julian!

All the best,

Sara

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] (OT) for those in NYC
Date: June 30, 2004 at 7:49:09 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Preston,

AOL opened your file with ease. I really hope to get there either next week or the week after.

Peace,
sean

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: June 30, 2004 at 7:41:12 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks so much!
There is hope!
I can’t wait to do this Ibogaine!
I really needed your post CrookedEye! Thanks so much! Nothing speaks louder and clearer than experience!
Callie

From: CrookedEye420@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: June 30, 2004 at 7:37:22 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I was on methadone for three years and I was up to 100mgs a day. After the Iboga, I didn’t feel great but I wasn’t getting most of the symptoms you usually get during and after detox. It’s been three months and I feel totally fine. The first month was tough because I wasn’t sleeping well and my stomach was readjusting to the non-opiate functioning, but by month two I had little energy but I felt okay. Now after three months I feel like I never used. Two months of occasional minor discomfort(goosebumps, stomach cramps), which was helped tremendously by Cannabis, is definitely worth the pain and effort because I am now free, feeling good, and I have no one to answer to but myself. No worries about not getting to the clinic in time, no worry of getting stuck somewhere without my meds! It is amazing to be free and clean since I haven’t ever been clean more than two weeks after any other detox, since I started using opiates. I have no urge to use, no triggers bother me anymore. The first week after coming out of the trip I wanted to use and even gave it a try. The dope wasn’t even pleasurable and only gave me a day or two of discomfort afterwards, so I decided I wasn’t going to screw up again and I didn’t. I may have been better even quicker had I not used at all, but I’ll tell you it sure did lower my tolerance. Whatever happens, I hope you get a chance to try the Iboga, it changed my way of thinking a lot and it was a process, not an overnight cure. Good luck!
Shawn

In a message dated 6/29/2004 2:19:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Sapphirestardus@aol.com writes:
Hello Terrell. My name is Julian (sapphirestardust). I’m about your age-49. I’ve been on drugs since age 10 and the last 23 years have been on methadone-140mgs. You have precisely stated why I have accepted the fact that as it is with my antidepressant, I will probably take methadone for the rest of my life. The lack of energy and motivation to get up, get it together and face the day is my greatest fear. Though it is possible that some of the people who detoxed exaggerated the ill feelings, it is not likely that everyone would. Every person I’ve talked with about detoxing says the same thing: it takes months to start feeling a sense of well being. The thing is, I believe Iboga/Ibogaine might be different than othere forms of detox. I intend to experience Iboga/Ibogaine but I’m not going to make a firm decision as to whether or not I should be drug free before my experience. After it, I may want to give up all my meds. I’m going to allow the experience to help me make such a decision. I think it might be good for you to try this approach. Don’t go into the experience with any expectations nor any demanding goals. I would use it to just gain alot of insight into yourself in relation to drugs and other behavior you find undesirable. Maybe afterwards, you will lose your desire for everything, maybe you will feel that certain meds are good for you. Whatever happens will happen. That’s what I believe is so wonderful about the drug and it’s effects. The experience will help you decide. So you go in blank and come out not blank(?)
It’s nice to hear from you,
Julian

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] (OT) for those in NYC
Date: June 30, 2004 at 7:29:32 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

My, my, my!!!!!!! Is that blue haired, pierced man in the picture you Preston? If so, that is not how I had you pictured at all! I had you pictured a bit more conservative with long brown hair and fewer piercings.
I do love to see what folks look like though! They hardly ever look like how I have them pictured!
Hope your party goes well! Wish I was closer so I could drop in!
Peace! Callie

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: June 30, 2004 at 7:18:43 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Julian, Before I learned of Ibogaine, I had resigned myself to the fact that I would be a lifetime Methadone Maintenance client at some Methadone clinic! Now, to me this was a relief as I was headed straight to prison. I had developed such a habit that illegally obtaining my narcotics by fraud was the only way I could afford them! Methadone was literally a life saver to me! I will be forever grateful and I hope the Ibogaine treatment(s) ‘cure’ me but if they do not I will not ever go back to my prior use.

Like I said before, I have no doubt I could detox but it is the psychological shit that has me all fucked up!!!
I hate the way I feel without narcotics……I love the euphoria and mood boost I have always obtained from opiates.

My son visited last Monday. He is 25 and it was the first time I have seen him since his wedding last June. He and his wife live in Texas.
I got so uncomfortable the couple of days leading up to his visit that I was seeking extra Methadone to take the edge off!
I really hurt my boys during their childhood. I hate to say it but evidently loved dope more than spending time with them.
Now it hurts me to the core to look back on the selfish choices I made. I know it hurts them too. They have been able to move on but I have not! The guilt eats me up!! There is not a day that goes by that I do not feel that gut wrenching shame of my past behaviors!
Their Dad is a good man. I could not have picked a better father for my children. He raised them in my absence. Needless to say he hates my guts. That is probably putting it lightly! He does not understand why they love me and I really don’t know why they do either.
Oh, they have issues I am sure! They say they have gotten past it but I really don’t see how they could.
Anyway…..you know that if I chose the drugs over my children that I will continue to choose them! I can’t not choose them. Sad….huh?

So brother, I know how you feel! Wish I had the answers! Like I said before….if I ever get them You folks will get them too!
Callie

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] (OT) for those in NYC
Date: June 30, 2004 at 7:16:53 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m actually pretty naive on the whole computer thing too, which is why I
was wondering if it was going to open for everyone.
What kind of computer are you using, and can you open Word documents,
because that is what the file is, and from your description, it doesn’t
sound like you can.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 4:44 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] (OT) for those in NYC

Hey Preston. I’m pretty naive re: computers but when I downloaded your file,
I got a very big file completely encrypyted. Could you advise me on this.

Thank you,

Julian

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: CrookedEye420@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] heresy of the 12 steps
Date: June 30, 2004 at 6:36:28 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 6/19/2004 8:02:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dave@phantom.com writes:
In addition, Dr. Lambert liked to put alcoholics to sleep as soon as
they came in. He usually used chloral hydrate or paraldehyde, but
“Lambert also believed it wise to give most alcoholics 1/60 to 1/30 of
a gram of strychnine every four hours.”14 Those who remember the
psychedelic sixties will remember that LSD was sometimes laced with the
poison strychnine because it enhanced the colors and the vividness of
the hallucinations.
LSD is/was not laced with strychnine, this is an urban legend/myth. The discomfort sometimes equated to strychnine is from a less than pure LSD product. Beige, amber, lavender crystal are all impure and gve some unwanted side effects in higher doses. Silver crystal is usually pretty clean but white fluff is the purest and is the only one soluble in water. Pure fluff causes no physical discomfort, just good trippin’.

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] vaccine
Date: June 30, 2004 at 6:29:36 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

No disrespect intended but I would of liked to see the look on your face
when that
guy got up in court and started saying your a drug user and naming all the
drugs
that you used. Sorts like Hey, I thought this guy was here to help.<

LOL
! None taken Jim and yeah, I too would like to have seen my face…now,
looking back all these years on it. Not necessarily at that time- then it
weren’t quite as amusing to think of the look on my face.
;-0))

As we both know
you were worth several thousand dollars to TASC. The state most likely paid
TASC
thousnds of dollars.<

Most likely. Then the head jerk wanted to send me off to make yet more money
for the state. (But he didn’t show up in court it turned out, suprising me
pleasantly.)

When I was in Florida in the 90’s the Attorney General’s wife owned the
medical
company that took care of the prisoners.<

Um…why does this not exactly surprise me?
;-0((
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 10:07 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] vaccine

Hi Preston,

I REALLY learned something. If something like that should happen to me I
will
say: “Sir, I want a lawyer before making any statements.” As we both know
you were worth several thousand dollars to TASC. The state most likely paid
TASC
thousnds of dollars.

When I was in Florida in the 90’s the Attorney General’s wife owned the
medical
company that took care of the prisoners. One guy had kidney stones or
something
like that and wanted to see a doc. Everytime the doc came to his jail they
would
move him to another. See, they were not going to pay several thousands for
treatment. Now, your probably thinking that is conflict of interest, hell
yes it is but
it’s Florida. The whole story was in the paper, I forget which one.

Live and learn,

– JIM

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
I am sure you heard of a judge either ordering a person into a drug abuse
program or jail.<

Funny enough, yes, I have heard of this Jim, and have posted the article
here on this list before, but I think there are a number of new subscribers,
so I’ll post the following excerpt and those who wish to read the whole
thing can at the URL just below.
Peace,
Preston

http://www.drugwar.com/ptreatjail.shtm

Treatment or Jail- Is This Really a Choice?
by Preston Peet
(originally published in Everything You Know Is Wrong-
Disinformation Books, 2002-
edited by Russ Kick)
posted at Drugwar.com August 29, 2002

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment can easily
be mistaken for madness.” –Martin (Asylum 1996-1997)[1]
Some people take drugs to escape difficult life situations. Some take drugs
to assist in treating pain, physical or psychological. Some take drugs
simply to get high. The reasons for taking drugs are legion. But under the
War on Some Drugs prohibition, the US government has given itself the right
to dictate which drugs and highs are acceptable. Now a movement is growing
in the US to push those convicted of drug charges into drug treatment
instead of jail.

Although US jails can be hellish and cruel, a certain percentage of people
willfully continue to get high on any assortment of illicit (and licit)
substances no matter what the law says. So they must be crazy or sick and
therefore in need of behavior modification and mind control. In other words,
drug treatment.

While living in Florida in 1987, I was arrested on a misdemeanor charge
completely unrelated to drugs. Sitting in jail unable to make bail, I was
taken from my cellblock one morning to meet with a man from TASC (Treatment
Alternati! ves to Street Crime).[2] Naïve and unsuspecting, I was open with
him about my drug use, listing all the drugs I had ingested up to that point
in my life. It was a long list.

A week or so later, when I finally got to court, I was stunned when the same
TASC evaluator stood up before the judge and told her I had a “drug problem”
and needed to be placed into treatment. The judge sentenced me to a year of
probation and to successful completion of the TASC program.

I fought it all the way. I was using some drugs then, abusing some others,
and dealing with other problems, as well. I was told that the TASC program
lasted twelve to eighteen months on average and that my probation would not
be finished in twelve months unless I’d graduated from TASC. After a couple
of months in the outpatient treatment program, I was being urine-tested each
week–Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, then Tuesday and Thursday on
alternating weeks. After dodging these ! testing sessions as much as
possible,
and repeatedly trying to fool the tests, marijuana and cocaine turned up in
my urine. I was taken to see the head of the program, who told me he was
notifying my probation officer and would be in court to recommend the
maximum jail time for me, as I was “incorrigible and untreatable.”

Basically, he was right. I was, and still am, incorrigible but not
necessarily untreatable. This doesn’t mean that I personally want or need
treatment now, nor do I support treatment for others unless it is entirely
voluntary. Under current US War on Some Drugs policies, how often is drug
treatment really voluntary?

The Therapeutic State

“Coerced treatment is an oxymoron. Government intrusion by police and arrest
is anti-treatment. I am not against treatment; I am against
government-compelled treatment,” said ACLU Executive Director Ira Glasser at
the Lindesmith Center-Drug Policy Foundation’s[3] internatio! nal drug
policy
reform conference.[4] Continuing with a dire prognostication, Glasser said,
“Fusing the police power of the state with medicine corrupts medicine and
makes it a tool of the state. Then we get the therapeutic state and pretend
that is progress. The worst danger is an ever-expanding net of social
control. The ‘benevolence’ of coerced treatment is a trap. It will allow the
state to define acceptable treatment, and that means abstinence and
piss-testing.”

Deborah Small, Director of Public Policy and Community Outreach at
Lindesmith-NYC, countered Glasser’s statements by asking, “How can you
question anything that gets people out of the living death of prison? We
have to engage with what is actually happening in the criminal justice
system, and coerced treatment is an alternative to incarceration.”

I can personally vouch for the fact that jail is not healthy or fun, nor did
spending time inside ever keep me from wanting to! get high. When the judge
first mandated me into treatment, I thought it was a far better choice than
a trip through jail. Not by any means do I support incarceration for any
drug offense (which I hadn’t been charged with at that time, anyway), but
treatment at that point wasn’t better for me. It merely exacerbated my
already high stress levels by focusing on immediately eradicating my drug
use to the exclusion of all else, which I in turn dealt with by doing more
drugs. This was when I first heard that I had a disease called “addiction,”
that I had no control, that all substance use was substance abuse, that any
drug use would lead me straight to jails, institutions, or death. As I
wouldn’t accept this, even daring to question these assertions, I was in
“denial.” Coerced drug treatment ordered by the court did nothing but
prolong my legal and personal difficulties.

“In thinking about linkages between drug treatment and criminal sanctio! ns,
it is important to distinguish between questions of effectiveness and
fairness,” explains a recent report from the National Academy of
Sciences.[5] “Supporters of using the criminal justice system for
therapeutic leverage typically view treatment participation offered to
offenders as an ameliorative device–an opportunity for mitigating the
sentence they would otherwise receive (i.e., probation with treatment is
offered in lieu of incarceration, using the threat of incarceration for
noncompliance). Others worry that programs of mandated treatment will
actually have the effect of increasing the severity of punishment compared
with what the offenders would otherwise have received. As an example,
offenders who otherwise would have been sentenced to traditional probation
could be subject to treatment conditions that create a risk of imprisonment
(for noncompliance) that otherwise wouldn’t have existed. Or an offender
whose case might otherwis! e have been dismissed could be sentenced to
conditional probation. These are classic ‘net-widening’ concerns, because
they widen the reach and deepen the intensity of punishment. This issue
should be kept in mind in considering research on coerced treatment.”

Lock ‘Em Up, One Way of the Other

“Because when the smack begins to flow I really don’t care anymore, about
all the Jim-Jims in this town, and all the politicians making crazy sounds,
and everybody putting everybody else down, and all the dead bodies piled up
in mounds.” –Lou Reed[6]

Reading through the statistics, the numbers of people being arrested and
going on to jail in the US for drug offenses are offensive.
snip (thyere’s quite a bit more of this essay at the above URL, so be sure
to visit) –
Endnotes

1.Jansen, Karl L.R., M.D., Ph.D. “Ketamine: Dreams and Realities.”
Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies (2001): 260.

2. See: .

3. Lindesmith Center-Drug Policy Foundation: Broadening the Debate on Drugs
and Drug Policy .

4. Held in Albuquerque, New Mexico, 30 May – 2 June 2001. “Conference
Report: As Drug Reform Edges Closer to Mainstream (or Vice Versa), Fractures
Emerge Over Politics of Treatment.” Week Online With DRCNet 189 (8 June
2001). .

5.Committee on Data and Research for Policy on Illegal Drugs, Charles F.
Manski, John V. Pepper, and Carol V. Petrie, Editors. “Informing America’s
Policy on Illegal Drugs: What We Don’t Know Keeps Hurting Us.” Committee on
Law and Justice and Committee on National Statistics, National Research
Council (2001): 238.

6. Reed, Lou. “Heroin.” Performed by the Velvet Underground. The Velvet
Underground and Nico. Verve, 1967.

—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 8:47 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] vaccine

Hi Preston,

They could make it like the Hep B vaccine that they give you at birth. Hep
B in seldom life threatening and is almost always caught by tainted blood or
sex. So why in the hell do they give it to a new born baby? Off hand I
would have to say money for the drug company and/or a great way to
experiment on the citizens of the U.S. like they did to homosexuals in New
York City. Also, durning the 60s ninty percent or more of the LSD was made
by the C.I.A. XTC is made in Europe by Jewish chemist. If the government
is going to make the stuff and distribute it, I think they should reduce the
penelties from years in jail to 30 days maximum.

I am sure you heard of a judge either ordering a person into a drug abuse
program or jail. This sounds like the next step, you either take the
vaccine or do five or ten years in the join! t, your choice. Duress? What do
you mean duress? There doing you a favor, right.

Take care,

– JIM

remainder snipped-

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete – You start. We finish.

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: June 30, 2004 at 4:50:57 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Callie.
What you said here is basically what I was saying in my letter. I think we can control the degree of pain and misery we experience when detoxing. Knowing this doesn’t necessarily help, LOOK AT ME!! I’m still reluctant to detox even though I know I can control most of how I feel. I guess I don’t want any pain and I also know that if I didn’t have the tolerance to opiates that I have, I would be abusing the pain meds I have and would eventually shoot dope again. Anyway, I’ll do the same thing as you. If I ever get answers, I will definitely share the wealth!
Sincerely,
Julian

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] (OT) for those in NYC
Date: June 30, 2004 at 4:44:34 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Preston. I’m pretty naive re: computers but when I downloaded your file, I got a very big file completely encrypyted. Could you advise me on this.
Thank you,
Julian

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: June 30, 2004 at 4:25:14 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello Sara. Personally, I think there are a few reasons for the ill feelings to remain so long. Some of this is pure conjecture, some are fact. When using methadone for a long period, there are specific chemical and neuro-hormonal changes that occur in the brain and body. On top of the methadone are also the years of substance abuse and whatever changes that caused. It takes time for the body and brain to achieve it’s natural or former homeostasis or balance. There are things we can do to hasten this, good food, good sleep, exercize, vitamins et al.I also think that some people (many people) sort of create that period of time. I know with myself, even though I may be depressed, I also kinow that I can make it worse or better based on my thoughts, my behavior, general way of thinking and feeling. My experience is that addicts are extra sensitive to pain and misery. as a matter of fact, how manu of us have a history of doing well, feeling better and then sabatoging it. I used to always celebrate my doing well by getting fucked up! Most of the people I know that have detoxed and took a long time to feel better did not do all the things they could have (exercizing, vitamins etc.) I don’t know, it’s a pretty complex problem. One last note on this subject: Many times I have listened to people complain about pains, aches, stiffness and other things and it was always the methadone. What they never considered was they were getting older. Virtually all the complaints were suffered by many people not on drugs. Though it is true that long term use of meth results in a residual amt. that is stored in marrow, fat, bone, and all tissue in general. Ir doesn’t mean that this is a negative thing. All drugs are found in our tissue after using them for a long time. I feel pretty good myself. Putting aside the problems I have from my accident, I have never experienced any problems with meth. I have had changes physically but I know it’s from getting older. Keep in mind though, my entire life I have taken vitamins, worked out, ate well and slept well to help balance out my abuse and addictions. Maybe it helped, but no ill effects from the long term use of the meth. I did ask a doctor and a nurse practitioner about residual drug levels in the body and both said they aren’t 100% certain but as far as they knew, there are no harmful effects from the small amounts stored in tissue. I think Howard or a few others more knowledgeable than I could better answer this. I hope I answered your questions. I really tried to keep it simple but…………….
Thanks,
sincerely
Julian

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: June 30, 2004 at 4:21:14 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 6/29/2004 3:19:08 PM Central Daylight Time, sara119@xs4all.nl writes:
do you know why it takes such a long time ? after all at the methadone clinics they tell that it doesn’t attack the bone marrow.

It doesn’t attack your bone marrow. Withdrawals feel like you hurt to your bone marrow though! lol!
Physical dependence is very complicated.
If you decrease your dose very slowly, you ca detox completely……comfortably.
Now remember though….this addiction thing is a double edge sword! Anyone can detox slowly and feel okay physically BUT you have to address the psychological dependence. It is the real BITCH!!!!!!
It can make you physically sick when you should feel fine. I wish I knew how to unlock and break free from the psychological shit.
Personally. I think it just takes time. Time changing your routine, your schedule, the people you associate with.
I sure do hope I find the answer someday. If and when I do I promise I will come back to list and let you all know what worked for me!
Until then I will be here reading and adding my two cents worth……………..
lol!
Callie

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [drugwar] (OT) for those in NYC
Date: June 30, 2004 at 1:36:50 PM EDT
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>, <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: drugwar@mindvox.com

Hi to all on the DrugWar and Ibogaine email lists, and to all I’ve
close-copied this to,
I’m starting a new party here in Manhattan at Duck on 6th St. betwen
Aves. A and B, spinning goth, punk, hard rock, industrial and new wave type
stuff. If you are in or near the city and want to get out on a Wednesday
night, tonight as noted, and next week and the week after too, please feel
free to stop by and say hello (then I’ll be moving it to Tuesdays if things
work out). I will be working obviously, but it would be nice to see anyone
who showed up. (You could always bring any drugwar related printed material
to put by the door with all the flyers to other parties and the like. Be
subversive at the subversive-type party.)
;-0)))
I’ve attached the flyer. Will everyone please let me know if you can
open it or not? I did something different than usual when working with a
photo and am unsure if others will be able to see it on their computers. It
is definitely virus free btw.
Thanks all, and I look forward to seeing and/or meeting anyone who
decides they’d like to come say hello. Cheap drinks and there’s no cover
either btw.
Peace,
Preston
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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] vaccine
Date: June 30, 2004 at 10:07:39 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Preston,

No disrespect intended but I would of liked to see the look on your face when that
guy got up in court and started saying your a drug user and naming all the drugs
that you used. Sorts like Hey, I thought this guy was here to help.

I REALLY learned something. If something like that should happen to me I will
say: “Sir, I want a lawyer before making any statements.” As we both know
you were worth several thousand dollars to TASC. The state most likely paid TASC
thousnds of dollars.

When I was in Florida in the 90’s the Attorney General’s wife owned the medical
company that took care of the prisoners. One guy had kidney stones or something
like that and wanted to see a doc. Everytime the doc came to his jail they would
move him to another. See, they were not going to pay several thousands for
treatment. Now, your probably thinking that is conflict of interest, hell yes it is but
it’s Florida. The whole story was in the paper, I forget which one.

Live and learn,

– JIM

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>I am sure you heard of a judge either ordering a person into a drug abuse
program or jail.<

http://www.drugwar.com/ptreatjail.shtm

While living in Florida in 1987, I was arrested on a misdemeanor charge
completely unrelated to drugs. Sitting in jail unable to make bail, I was
taken from my cellblock one morning to meet with a man from TASC (Treatment
Alternatives to Street Crime).[2] Naïve and unsuspecting, I was open with
him about my drug use, listing all the drugs I had ingested up to that point
in my life. It was a long list.

I fought it all the way. I was using some drugs then, abusing some others,
and dealing with other problems, as well. I was told that the TASC program
lasted twelve to eighteen months on average and that my probation would not
be finished in twelve months unless I’d graduated from TASC. After a couple
of months in the outpatient treatment program, I was being urine-tested each
week–Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, then Tuesday and Thursday on
alternating weeks. After dodging these testing sessions as much as possible,
and repeatedly trying to fool the tests, marijuana and cocaine turned up in
my urine. I was taken to see the head of the program, who told me he was
notifying my probation officer and would be in court to recommend the
maximum jail time for me, as I was “incorrigible and untreatable.”

The Therapeutic State

“Coerced treatment is an oxymoron. Government intrusion by police and arrest
is anti-treatment. I am not against treatment; I am against
government-compelled treatment,” said ACLU Executive Director Ira Glasser at
the Lindesmith Center-Drug Policy Foundation’s[3] international drug policy
reform conference.[4] Continuing with a dire prognostication, Glasser said,
“Fusing the police power of the state with medicine corrupts medicine and
makes it a tool of the state. Then we get the therapeutic state and pretend
that is progress. The worst danger is an ever-expanding net of social
control. The ‘benevolence’ of coerced treatment is a trap. It will allow the
state to define acceptable treatment, and that means abstinence and
piss-testing.”

I can personally vouch for the fact that jail is not healthy or fun, nor did
spending time inside ever keep me from wanting to get high. When the judge
first mandated me into treatment, I thought it was a far better choice than
a trip through jail. Not by any means do I support incarceration for any
drug offense (which I hadn’t been charged with at that time, anyway), but
treatment at that point wasn’t better for me. It merely exacerbated my
already high stress levels by focusing on immediately eradicating my drug
use to the exclusion of all else, which I in turn dealt with by doing more
drugs. This was when I first heard that I had a disease called “addiction,”
that I had no control, that all substance use was substance abuse, that any
drug use would lead me straight to jails, institutions, or death. As I
wouldn’t accept this, even daring to question these assertions, I was in
“denial.” Coerced drug treatment ordered by the court did nothing but
prolong my legal and personal difficulties.

“In thinking about linkages between drug treatment and criminal sanctions,
it is important to distinguish between questions of effectiveness and
fairness,” explains a recent report from the National Academy of
Sciences.[5] “Supporters of using the criminal justice system for
therapeutic leverage typically view treatment participation offered to
offenders as an ameliorative device–an opportunity for mitigating the
sentence they would otherwise receive (i.e., probation with treatment is
offered in lieu of incarceration, using the threat of incarceration for
noncompliance). Others worry that programs of mandated treatment will
actually have the effect of increasing the severity of punishment compared
with what the offenders would otherwise have received. As an example,
offenders who otherwise would have been sentenced to traditional probation
could be subject to treatment conditions that create a risk of imprisonment
(for noncompliance) that otherwise wouldn’t have existed. Or an offender
whose case might otherwise have been dismissed could be sentenced to
conditional probation. These are classic ‘net-widening’ concerns, because
they widen the reach and deepen the intensity of punishment. This issue
should be kept in mind in considering research on coerced treatment.”

Lock ‘Em Up, One Way of the Other

1.Jansen, Karl L.R., M.D., Ph.D. “Ketamine: Dreams and Realities.”
Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies (2001): 260.

2. See: .

3. Lindesmith Center-Drug Policy Foundation: Broadening the Debate on Drugs
and Drug Policy .

6. Reed, Lou. “Heroin.” Performed by the Velvet Underground. The Velvet
Underground and Nico. Verve, 1967.

—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 8:47 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] vaccine

Hi Preston,

I am sure you heard of a judge either ordering a person into a drug abuse
program or jail. This sounds like the next step, you either take the
vaccine or do five or ten years in the joint, your choice. Duress? What do
you mean duress? There doing you a favor, right.

Take care,

– JIM

remainder snipped-

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete – You start. We finish.

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [drugwar] Fw: [ibogaine] Stop H.R. 4547!
Date: June 29, 2004 at 11:52:36 PM EDT
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: drugwar@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 10:27 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Stop H.R. 4547!

ORIGINAL MESSAGE

In a message dated 6/29/04 8:17:30 PM, Swftl@aol.com writes:

<< Dear Friends:

Well, this isn’t a week of all good news.

Here is a message from Eric Sterling, and a forwarded message from FAMM.

Nora

U.S. Rep. Jim Sensenbrenner (R-WI), Chairman of the House Judiciary

Committee, has introduced an incredibly bad bill, H.R. 4547.

Print the bill out at http://thomas.loc.gov/ by entering H.R. 4547 in the

box.

It would provide a 10-year mandatory minimum for a parent who shares

marijuana with their child, plus a 4-level sentencing enhancement. If the

parent has a prior drug offense — even a 25-year old marijuana citation as

a college student, the sentence is mandatory life without parole.

The mandatory minimum for selling marijuana on or within 1000 feet of a

college campus is raised to 5 years. (This also includes selling any drugs

within 1000 feet of any school, public library, swimming pool, video

arcade, public or private daycare facility).

It creates a new crime of distributing drugs within 1000 feet of a drug

treatment facility with a mandatory sentence of 5 years up to life

imprisonment.

It creates a new crime of distributing (or offering to distribute) drugs

(or attempting or conspiring to do so) to a person enrolled in a drug

treatment facility, under a court order to do so, or “who has previously

been enrolled in a drug treatment program or facility” with a mandatory

minimum of 5 years up to life.

Think about the pressures to snitch and make up stuff for a junkie who is

charged with attempting to sell or offering to sell drugs to another junkie

who was once in drug treatment. This sounds like the trumpet call for a

nationwide perjury festival.

Think about how this new offense could be used by DEA to target doctors who

treat pain. Send an undercover in for pain medication and let it drop that

they are now clean because the treatment program they were in worked.

This would make any kind of sub rosa maintenance treatment subject to a

mandatory minimum of 5 years up to life, and, I failed to mention, a

$4,000,000 fine! Any kind of prior conviction, mandatory life imprisonment.

Below is an action alert that FAMM is sending out to our members tonight

on the new Sensenbrenner bill, H.R. 4547. It contains a link to the bill

analysis done by Mary Price, FAMM’s general counsel and a link to FAMM’s

action center, where members can e-mail their federal rep in opposition to

the bill. For printing ease, I’m also attaching the documents below.

Please distribute this information to our allies. This is a very bad bill

and we hope we can stop it.

Thanks so much for your help,

Monica Pratt

FAMM

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Stop H.R. 4547!
Date: June 29, 2004 at 10:27:50 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com