Ibogaine List Archives – 2004-06

From: CrookedEye420@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Sara’s web site down?help needed
Date: June 30, 2004 at 11:56:50 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 6/24/2004 12:11:42 AM Eastern Daylight Time, HSLotsof@aol.com writes:
The web page is missing as are the search engine citations.  There used to be
a second webpage address for sara’s web page but, I cannot find that as well.
Any news of sara appreciated.

Howard
I couldn’t access her webpage which was http://www.sarashouse.tk but her email address is sara119@xs4all.nl if anyone needs to contact her and she belongs to the list.
Shawn

From: Nowwarat@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] detox
Date: June 30, 2004 at 11:53:36 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The problem I would have with this is I can’t imagine someone going through this with a busy life and people depending on you while your tapering off.

I only have respect for you. The commitment and determination to see this through is amazing.

It  is beyond what I could manage. Nor would I want to try. Perhaps I’ve gone soft over the years. I hate,  and I mean hate pain and discomfort! Imagine “Dirty Harry” now imagine the opposite. That’s me.

Nowwarat

From: CrookedEye420@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: June 30, 2004 at 11:28:38 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

BTW, I could get down to 20 mg of met but no matter how slowly I tried to go below 20 mg w/d would start

Once you get as low as you can, then keep it there until you are used to it.  Once you are, start the taper again and do no more than 2 mgs every two weeks.  It won’t have you feeling great but there is no way to escape addiction without some discomfort.  When it gets too much to handle then raise it a few mgs or stop tapering til you can stand it.  This is the only way to taper off of methadone.  No matter how slow it goes, you will get some minor withdrawal, no matter what.  Ibogaine takes most of that away, though, so it feels like you’re already a couple days or weeks after a detox.  I didn’t feel great during my taper but when I got to 30mgs, I really felt it.  So I stopped going down for about a month or two, then I resumed.  When I got down to 12mgs, then I felt crappy for the evening and mornings before my dose and I couldn’t sleep without a heavy dose of Cannabis.  That is when I went for my Iboga experience.  The thing is, there was a guy there at Sara’s that came off of 140mgs and he was doing just as good as me, if not better, without the long slow process of tapering and not feeling great the whole time.  If Iboga isn’t an option or you’re not ready to try it, then I’d suggest the slow taper or maybe try bupe, but I did a bupe detox and when I got home, I used immediately because of the discomfort.  Possibly a longer taper from bupe would have been less painful but they were only doing the bupe detox at the time.  Good luck!
Shawn
From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: June 30, 2004 at 8:21:45 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thank you  very much Julian!

All the best,

Sara

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] (OT) for those in NYC
Date: June 30, 2004 at 7:49:09 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Preston,

AOL opened your file with ease.  I really hope to get there either next week or the week after.

Peace,
sean

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: June 30, 2004 at 7:41:12 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks so much!
There is hope!
I can’t wait to do this Ibogaine!
I really needed your post CrookedEye! Thanks so much! Nothing speaks louder and clearer than experience!
Callie

From: CrookedEye420@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: June 30, 2004 at 7:37:22 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I was on methadone for three years and I was up to 100mgs a day.  After the Iboga, I didn’t feel great but I wasn’t getting most of the symptoms you usually get during and after detox.  It’s been three months and I feel totally fine.  The first month was tough because I wasn’t sleeping well and my stomach was readjusting to the non-opiate functioning, but by month two I had little energy but I felt okay.  Now after three months I feel like I never used.  Two months of occasional minor discomfort(goosebumps, stomach cramps), which was helped tremendously by Cannabis, is definitely worth the pain and effort because I am now free, feeling good, and I have no one to answer to but myself.  No worries about not getting to the clinic in time, no worry of getting stuck somewhere without my meds!  It is amazing to be free and clean since I haven’t ever been clean more than two weeks after any other detox, since I started using opiates.  I have no urge to use, no triggers bother me anymore.  The first week after coming out of the trip I wanted to use and even gave it a try.  The dope wasn’t even pleasurable and only gave me a day or two of discomfort afterwards, so I decided I wasn’t going to screw up again and I didn’t.  I may have been better even quicker had I not used at all, but I’ll tell you it sure did lower my tolerance.  Whatever happens, I hope you get a chance to try the Iboga, it changed my way of thinking a lot and it was a process, not an overnight cure.  Good luck!
Shawn

In a message dated 6/29/2004 2:19:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Sapphirestardus@aol.com writes:
Hello Terrell. My name is Julian (sapphirestardust). I’m about your age-49. I’ve been on drugs since age 10 and the last 23 years have been on methadone-140mgs. You have precisely stated why I  have accepted the fact that as it is with my antidepressant, I will probably take methadone for the rest of my life. The lack of energy and motivation to get up, get it together and face the day is my greatest fear. Though it is possible that some of the people who detoxed exaggerated the ill feelings, it is not likely that everyone would. Every person I’ve talked with about detoxing says the same thing: it takes months to start feeling a sense of well being. The thing is, I believe Iboga/Ibogaine might be different than othere forms of detox. I intend to experience Iboga/Ibogaine but I’m not going to make a firm decision as to whether or not I should be drug free before my experience. After it, I may want to give up all my meds. I’m going to allow the experience to help me make such a decision. I think it might be good for you to try this approach. Don’t go into the experience with any expectations nor any demanding goals. I would use it to just gain alot of insight into yourself in relation to drugs and other behavior you find undesirable. Maybe afterwards, you will lose your desire for everything, maybe you will feel that certain meds are good for you. Whatever happens will happen. That’s what I believe is so wonderful about the drug and it’s effects. The experience will help you decide. So you go in blank and come out not blank(?)
It’s nice to hear from you,
Julian

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] (OT) for those in NYC
Date: June 30, 2004 at 7:29:32 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

My, my, my!!!!!!! Is that blue haired, pierced man in the picture you Preston? If so, that is not how I had you pictured at all! I had you pictured a bit more conservative with long brown hair and fewer piercings.
I do love to see what folks look like though! They hardly ever look like how I have them pictured!
Hope your party goes well! Wish I was closer so I could drop in!
Peace! Callie

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: June 30, 2004 at 7:18:43 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Julian, Before I learned of Ibogaine, I had resigned myself to the fact that I would be a lifetime Methadone Maintenance client at some Methadone clinic! Now, to me this was a relief as I was headed straight to prison. I had developed such a habit that illegally obtaining my narcotics by fraud was the only way I could afford them! Methadone was literally a life saver to me! I will be forever grateful and I hope the Ibogaine treatment(s) ‘cure’ me but if they do not I will not ever go back to my prior use.

Like I said before, I have no doubt I could detox but it is the psychological shit that has me all fucked up!!!
I hate the way I feel without narcotics……I love the euphoria and mood boost I have always obtained from opiates.

My son visited last Monday. He is 25 and it was the first time I have seen him since his wedding last June. He and his wife live in Texas.
I got so uncomfortable the couple of days leading up to his visit that I was seeking extra Methadone to take the edge off!
I really hurt my boys during their childhood. I hate to say it but evidently loved dope more than spending time with them.
Now it hurts me to the core to look back on the selfish choices I made. I know it hurts them too. They have been able to move on but I have not! The guilt eats me up!! There is not a day that goes by that I do not feel that gut wrenching shame of my past behaviors!
Their Dad is a good man. I could not have picked a better father for my children. He raised them in my absence. Needless to say he hates my guts. That is probably putting it lightly! He does not understand why they love me and I really don’t know why they do either.
Oh, they have issues I am sure! They say they have gotten past it but I really don’t see how they could.
Anyway…..you know that if I chose the drugs over my children that I will continue to choose them! I can’t not choose them. Sad….huh?

So brother, I know how you feel! Wish I had the answers! Like I said before….if I ever get them You folks will get them too!
Callie

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] (OT) for those in NYC
Date: June 30, 2004 at 7:16:53 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m actually pretty naive on the whole computer thing too, which is why I
was wondering if it was going to open for everyone.
What kind of computer are you using, and can you open Word documents,
because that is what the file is, and from your description, it doesn’t
sound like you can.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 4:44 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] (OT) for those in NYC

Hey Preston. I’m pretty naive re: computers but when I downloaded your file,
I got a very big file completely encrypyted. Could you advise me on this.

Thank you,

Julian

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From: CrookedEye420@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] heresy of the 12 steps
Date: June 30, 2004 at 6:36:28 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 6/19/2004 8:02:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dave@phantom.com writes:
In addition, Dr. Lambert liked to put alcoholics to sleep as soon as
they came in. He usually used chloral hydrate or paraldehyde, but
“Lambert also believed it wise to give most alcoholics 1/60 to 1/30 of
a gram of strychnine every four hours.”14 Those who remember the
psychedelic sixties will remember that LSD was sometimes laced with the
poison strychnine because it enhanced the colors and the vividness of
the hallucinations.
LSD is/was not laced with strychnine, this is an urban legend/myth.  The discomfort sometimes equated to strychnine is from a less than pure LSD product.  Beige, amber, lavender crystal are all impure and gve some unwanted side effects in higher doses.  Silver crystal is usually pretty clean but white fluff is the purest and is the only one soluble in water.  Pure fluff causes no physical discomfort, just good trippin’.

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] vaccine
Date: June 30, 2004 at 6:29:36 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

No disrespect intended but I would of liked to see the look on your face
when that
guy got up in court and started saying your a drug user and naming all the
drugs
that you used.  Sorts like Hey, I thought this guy was here to help.<

LOL
! None taken Jim and yeah, I too would like to have seen my face…now,
looking back all these years on it. Not necessarily at that time- then it
weren’t quite as amusing to think of the look on my face.
;-0))

As we both know
you were worth several thousand dollars to TASC.  The state most likely paid
TASC
thousnds of dollars.<

Most likely. Then the head jerk wanted to send me off to make yet more money
for the state. (But he didn’t show up in court it turned out, suprising me
pleasantly.)

When I was in Florida in the 90’s the Attorney General’s wife owned the
medical
company that took care of the prisoners.<

Um…why does this not exactly surprise me?
;-0((
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 10:07 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] vaccine

Hi Preston,

No disrespect intended but I would of liked to see the look on your face
when that
guy got up in court and started saying your a drug user and naming all the
drugs
that you used.  Sorts like Hey, I thought this guy was here to help.

I REALLY learned something.  If something like that should happen to me I
will
say: “Sir, I want a lawyer before making any statements.”   As we both know
you were worth several thousand dollars to TASC.  The state most likely paid
TASC
thousnds of dollars.

When I was in Florida in the 90’s the Attorney General’s wife owned the
medical
company that took care of the prisoners.  One guy had kidney stones or
something
like that and wanted to see a doc.  Everytime the doc came to his jail they
would
move him to another.  See, they were not going to pay several thousands for
treatment.  Now, your probably thinking that is conflict of interest, hell
yes it is but
it’s Florida.  The whole story was in the paper, I forget which one.

Live and learn,

– JIM

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
I am sure you heard of a judge either ordering a person into a drug abuse
program or jail.<

Funny enough, yes, I have heard of this Jim, and have posted the article
here on this list before, but I think there are a number of new subscribers,
so I’ll post the following excerpt and those who wish to read the whole
thing can at the URL just below.
Peace,
Preston

http://www.drugwar.com/ptreatjail.shtm

Treatment or Jail- Is This Really a Choice?
by Preston Peet
(originally published in Everything You Know Is Wrong-
Disinformation Books, 2002-
edited by Russ Kick)
posted at Drugwar.com August 29, 2002

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment can easily
be mistaken for madness.” –Martin (Asylum 1996-1997)[1]
Some people take drugs to escape difficult life situations. Some take drugs
to assist in treating pain, physical or psychological. Some take drugs
simply to get high. The reasons for taking drugs are legion. But under the
War on Some Drugs prohibition, the US government has given itself the right
to dictate which drugs and highs are acceptable. Now a movement is growing
in the US to push those convicted of drug charges into drug treatment
instead of jail.

Although US jails can be hellish and cruel, a certain percentage of people
willfully continue to get high on any assortment of illicit (and licit)
substances no matter what the law says. So they must be crazy or sick and
therefore in need of behavior modification and mind control. In other words,
drug treatment.

While living in Florida in 1987, I was arrested on a misdemeanor charge
completely unrelated to drugs. Sitting in jail unable to make bail, I was
taken from my cellblock one morning to meet with a man from TASC (Treatment
Alternati! ves to Street Crime).[2] Naïve and unsuspecting, I was open with
him about my drug use, listing all the drugs I had ingested up to that point
in my life. It was a long list.

A week or so later, when I finally got to court, I was stunned when the same
TASC evaluator stood up before the judge and told her I had a “drug problem”
and needed to be placed into treatment. The judge sentenced me to a year of
probation and to successful completion of the TASC program.

I fought it all the way. I was using some drugs then, abusing some others,
and dealing with other problems, as well. I was told that the TASC program
lasted twelve to eighteen months on average and that my probation would not
be finished in twelve months unless I’d graduated from TASC. After a couple
of months in the outpatient treatment program, I was being urine-tested each
week–Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, then Tuesday and Thursday on
alternating weeks. After dodging these ! testing sessions as much as
possible,
and repeatedly trying to fool the tests, marijuana and cocaine turned up in
my urine. I was taken to see the head of the program, who told me he was
notifying my probation officer and would be in court to recommend the
maximum jail time for me, as I was “incorrigible and untreatable.”

Basically, he was right. I was, and still am, incorrigible but not
necessarily untreatable. This doesn’t mean that I personally want or need
treatment now, nor do I support treatment for others unless it is entirely
voluntary. Under current US War on Some Drugs policies, how often is drug
treatment really voluntary?

The Therapeutic State

“Coerced treatment is an oxymoron. Government intrusion by police and arrest
is anti-treatment. I am not against treatment; I am against
government-compelled treatment,” said ACLU Executive Director Ira Glasser at
the Lindesmith Center-Drug Policy Foundation’s[3] internatio! nal drug
policy
reform conference.[4] Continuing with a dire prognostication, Glasser said,
“Fusing the police power of the state with medicine corrupts medicine and
makes it a tool of the state. Then we get the therapeutic state and pretend
that is progress. The worst danger is an ever-expanding net of social
control. The ‘benevolence’ of coerced treatment is a trap. It will allow the
state to define acceptable treatment, and that means abstinence and
piss-testing.”

Deborah Small, Director of Public Policy and Community Outreach at
Lindesmith-NYC, countered Glasser’s statements by asking, “How can you
question anything that gets people out of the living death of prison? We
have to engage with what is actually happening in the criminal justice
system, and coerced treatment is an alternative to incarceration.”

I can personally vouch for the fact that jail is not healthy or fun, nor did
spending time inside ever keep me from wanting to! get high. When the judge
first mandated me into treatment, I thought it was a far better choice than
a trip through jail. Not by any means do I support incarceration for any
drug offense (which I hadn’t been charged with at that time, anyway), but
treatment at that point wasn’t better for me. It merely exacerbated my
already high stress levels by focusing on immediately eradicating my drug
use to the exclusion of all else, which I in turn dealt with by doing more
drugs. This was when I first heard that I had a disease called “addiction,”
that I had no control, that all substance use was substance abuse, that any
drug use would lead me straight to jails, institutions, or death. As I
wouldn’t accept this, even daring to question these assertions, I was in
“denial.” Coerced drug treatment ordered by the court did nothing but
prolong my legal and personal difficulties.

“In thinking about linkages between drug treatment and criminal sanctio! ns,
it is important to distinguish between questions of effectiveness and
fairness,” explains a recent report from the National Academy of
Sciences.[5] “Supporters of using the criminal justice system for
therapeutic leverage typically view treatment participation offered to
offenders as an ameliorative device–an opportunity for mitigating the
sentence they would otherwise receive (i.e., probation with treatment is
offered in lieu of incarceration, using the threat of incarceration for
noncompliance). Others worry that programs of mandated treatment will
actually have the effect of increasing the severity of punishment compared
with what the offenders would otherwise have received. As an example,
offenders who otherwise would have been sentenced to traditional probation
could be subject to treatment conditions that create a risk of imprisonment
(for noncompliance) that otherwise wouldn’t have existed. Or an offender
whose case might otherwis! e have been dismissed could be sentenced to
conditional probation. These are classic ‘net-widening’ concerns, because
they widen the reach and deepen the intensity of punishment. This issue
should be kept in mind in considering research on coerced treatment.”

Lock ‘Em Up, One Way of the Other

“Because when the smack begins to flow I really don’t care anymore, about
all the Jim-Jims in this town, and all the politicians making crazy sounds,
and everybody putting everybody else down, and all the dead bodies piled up
in mounds.” –Lou Reed[6]

Reading through the statistics, the numbers of people being arrested and
going on to jail in the US for drug offenses are offensive.
snip (thyere’s quite a bit more of this essay at the above URL, so be sure
to visit) –
Endnotes

1.Jansen, Karl L.R., M.D., Ph.D. “Ketamine: Dreams and Realities.”
Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies (2001): 260.

2. See: .

3. Lindesmith Center-Drug Policy Foundation: Broadening the Debate on Drugs
and Drug Policy .

4. Held in Albuquerque, New Mexico, 30 May – 2 June 2001. “Conference
Report: As Drug Reform Edges Closer to Mainstream (or Vice Versa), Fractures
Emerge Over Politics of Treatment.” Week Online With DRCNet 189 (8 June
2001). .

5.Committee on Data and Research for Policy on Illegal Drugs, Charles F.
Manski, John V. Pepper, and Carol V. Petrie, Editors. “Informing America’s
Policy on Illegal Drugs: What We Don’t Know Keeps Hurting Us.” Committee on
Law and Justice and Committee on National Statistics, National Research
Council (2001): 238.

6. Reed, Lou. “Heroin.” Performed by the Velvet Underground. The Velvet
Underground and Nico. Verve, 1967.

—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 8:47 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] vaccine

Hi Preston,

They could make it like the Hep B vaccine that they give you at birth. Hep
B in seldom life threatening and is almost always caught by tainted blood or
sex. So why in the hell do they give it to a new born baby? Off hand I
would have to say money for the drug company and/or a great way to
experiment on the citizens of the U.S. like they did to homosexuals in New
York City. Also, durning the 60s ninty percent or more of the LSD was made
by the C.I.A. XTC is made in Europe by Jewish chemist. If the government
is going to make the stuff and distribute it, I think they should reduce the
penelties from years in jail to 30 days maximum.

I am sure you heard of a judge either ordering a person into a drug abuse
program or jail. This sounds like the next step, you either take the
vaccine or do five or ten years in the join! t, your choice. Duress? What do
you mean duress? There doing you a favor, right.

Take care,

– JIM

remainder snipped-

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Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete – You start. We finish.

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From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: June 30, 2004 at 4:50:57 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Callie.
What you said here is basically what I was saying in my letter. I think we can control the degree of pain and misery we experience when detoxing. Knowing this doesn’t necessarily help, LOOK AT ME!! I’m still reluctant to detox even though I know I can control most of how I feel. I guess I don’t want any pain and I also know that if I didn’t have the tolerance to opiates that I have, I would be abusing the pain meds I have and would eventually shoot dope again. Anyway, I’ll do the same thing as you. If I ever get answers, I will definitely share the wealth!
Sincerely,
Julian

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] (OT) for those in NYC
Date: June 30, 2004 at 4:44:34 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Preston. I’m pretty naive re: computers but when I downloaded your file, I got a very big file completely encrypyted. Could you advise me on this.
Thank you,
Julian

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: June 30, 2004 at 4:25:14 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello Sara. Personally, I think there are a few reasons for the ill feelings to remain so long. Some of this is pure conjecture, some are fact. When using methadone for a long period, there are specific chemical and neuro-hormonal changes that occur in the brain and body. On top of the methadone are also the years of substance abuse and whatever changes that caused. It takes time for the body and brain to achieve it’s natural or former homeostasis or balance. There are things we can do to hasten this, good food, good sleep, exercize, vitamins et al.I also think that some people (many people) sort of create that period of time. I know with myself, even though I may be depressed, I also kinow that I can make it worse or better based on my thoughts, my behavior, general way of thinking and feeling. My experience is that addicts are extra sensitive to pain and misery. as a matter of fact, how manu of us have a history of doing well, feeling better and then sabatoging it. I used to always celebrate my doing well by getting fucked up! Most of the people I know that have detoxed and took a long time to feel better did not do all the things they could have (exercizing, vitamins etc.)  I don’t know, it’s a pretty complex problem. One last note on this subject: Many times I have listened to people complain about pains, aches, stiffness and other things and it was always the methadone. What they never considered was they were getting older. Virtually all the complaints were suffered by many people not on drugs. Though it is true that long term use of meth results in a residual amt. that is stored in marrow, fat, bone, and all tissue in general. Ir doesn’t mean that this is a negative thing. All drugs are found in our tissue after using them for a long time. I feel pretty good myself. Putting aside the problems I have from my accident, I have never experienced any problems with meth. I have had changes physically but I know it’s from getting older. Keep in mind though, my entire life I have taken vitamins, worked out, ate well and slept well to help balance out my abuse and addictions. Maybe it helped, but no ill effects from the long term use of the meth. I did ask a doctor and a nurse practitioner about residual drug levels in the body and both said they aren’t 100% certain but as far as they knew, there are no harmful effects from the small amounts stored in tissue. I think Howard or a few others more knowledgeable than I could better answer this. I hope I answered your questions. I really tried to keep it simple but…………….
Thanks,
sincerely
Julian

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: June 30, 2004 at 4:21:14 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 6/29/2004 3:19:08 PM Central Daylight Time, sara119@xs4all.nl writes:
do you know why it takes such a long time ?  after all at the methadone clinics they tell that it doesn’t attack the bone marrow.

It doesn’t attack your bone marrow. Withdrawals feel like you hurt to your bone marrow though! lol!
Physical dependence is very complicated.
If you decrease your dose very slowly, you ca detox completely……comfortably.
Now remember though….this addiction thing is a double edge sword! Anyone can detox slowly and feel okay physically BUT you have to address the psychological dependence. It is the real BITCH!!!!!!
It can make you physically sick when you should feel fine. I wish I knew how to unlock and break free from the psychological shit.
Personally. I think it just takes time. Time changing your routine, your schedule, the people you associate with.
I sure do hope I find the answer someday. If and when I do I promise I will come back to list and let you all know what worked for me!
Until then I will be here reading and adding my two cents worth……………..
lol!
Callie

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [drugwar] (OT) for those in NYC
Date: June 30, 2004 at 1:36:50 PM EDT
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>, <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: drugwar@mindvox.com

Hi to all on the DrugWar and Ibogaine email lists, and to all I’ve
close-copied this to,
I’m starting a new party here in Manhattan at Duck on 6th St. betwen
Aves. A and B, spinning goth, punk, hard rock, industrial and new wave type
stuff. If you are in or near the city and want to get out on a Wednesday
night, tonight as noted, and next week and the week after too, please feel
free to stop by and say hello (then I’ll be moving it to Tuesdays if things
work out). I will be working obviously, but it would be nice to see anyone
who showed up. (You could always bring any drugwar related printed material
to put by the door with all the flyers to other parties and the like. Be
subversive at the subversive-type party.)
;-0)))
I’ve attached the flyer. Will everyone please let me know if you can
open it or not? I did something different than usual when working with a
photo and am unsure if others will be able to see it on their computers. It
is definitely virus free btw.
Thanks all, and I look forward to seeing and/or meeting anyone who
decides they’d like to come say hello. Cheap drinks and there’s no cover
either btw.
Peace,
Preston
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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] vaccine
Date: June 30, 2004 at 10:07:39 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Preston,

No disrespect intended but I would of liked to see the look on your face when that
guy got up in court and started saying your a drug user and naming all the drugs
that you used.  Sorts like Hey, I thought this guy was here to help.

I REALLY learned something.  If something like that should happen to me I will
say: “Sir, I want a lawyer before making any statements.”   As we both know
you were worth several thousand dollars to TASC.  The state most likely paid TASC
thousnds of dollars.

When I was in Florida in the 90’s the Attorney General’s wife owned the medical
company that took care of the prisoners.  One guy had kidney stones or something
like that and wanted to see a doc.  Everytime the doc came to his jail they would
move him to another.  See, they were not going to pay several thousands for
treatment.  Now, your probably thinking that is conflict of interest, hell yes it is but
it’s Florida.  The whole story was in the paper, I forget which one.

Live and learn,

– JIM

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>I am sure you heard of a judge either ordering a person into a drug abuse
program or jail.<

Funny enough, yes, I have heard of this Jim, and have posted the article
here on this list before, but I think there are a number of new subscribers,
so I’ll post the following excerpt and those who wish to read the whole
thing can at the URL just below.
Peace,
Preston

http://www.drugwar.com/ptreatjail.shtm

Treatment or Jail- Is This Really a Choice?
by Preston Peet
(originally published in Everything You Know Is Wrong-
Disinformation Books, 2002-
edited by Russ Kick)
posted at Drugwar.com August 29, 2002

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment can easily
be mistaken for madness.” –Martin (Asylum 1996-1997)[1]
Some people take drugs to escape difficult life situations. Some take drugs
to assist in treating pain, physical or psychological. Some take drugs
simply to get high. The reasons for taking drugs are legion. But under the
War on Some Drugs prohibition, the US government has given itself the right
to dictate which drugs and highs are acceptable. Now a movement is growing
in the US to push those convicted of drug charges into drug treatment
instead of jail.

Although US jails can be hellish and cruel, a certain percentage of people
willfully continue to get high on any assortment of illicit (and licit)
substances no matter what the law says. So they must be crazy or sick and
therefore in need of behavior modification and mind control. In other words,
drug treatment.

While living in Florida in 1987, I was arrested on a misdemeanor charge
completely unrelated to drugs. Sitting in jail unable to make bail, I was
taken from my cellblock one morning to meet with a man from TASC (Treatment
Alternatives to Street Crime).[2] Naïve and unsuspecting, I was open with
him about my drug use, listing all the drugs I had ingested up to that point
in my life. It was a long list.

A week or so later, when I finally got to court, I was stunned when the same
TASC evaluator stood up before the judge and told her I had a “drug problem”
and needed to be placed into treatment. The judge sentenced me to a year of
probation and to successful completion of the TASC program.

I fought it all the way. I was using some drugs then, abusing some others,
and dealing with other problems, as well. I was told that the TASC program
lasted twelve to eighteen months on average and that my probation would not
be finished in twelve months unless I’d graduated from TASC. After a couple
of months in the outpatient treatment program, I was being urine-tested each
week–Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, then Tuesday and Thursday on
alternating weeks. After dodging these testing sessions as much as possible,
and repeatedly trying to fool the tests, marijuana and cocaine turned up in
my urine. I was taken to see the head of the program, who told me he was
notifying my probation officer and would be in court to recommend the
maximum jail time for me, as I was “incorrigible and untreatable.”

Basically, he was right. I was, and still am, incorrigible but not
necessarily untreatable. This doesn’t mean that I personally want or need
treatment now, nor do I support treatment for others unless it is entirely
voluntary. Under current US War on Some Drugs policies, how often is drug
treatment really voluntary?

The Therapeutic State

“Coerced treatment is an oxymoron. Government intrusion by police and arrest
is anti-treatment. I am not against treatment; I am against
government-compelled treatment,” said ACLU Executive Director Ira Glasser at
the Lindesmith Center-Drug Policy Foundation’s[3] international drug policy
reform conference.[4] Continuing with a dire prognostication, Glasser said,
“Fusing the police power of the state with medicine corrupts medicine and
makes it a tool of the state. Then we get the therapeutic state and pretend
that is progress. The worst danger is an ever-expanding net of social
control. The ‘benevolence’ of coerced treatment is a trap. It will allow the
state to define acceptable treatment, and that means abstinence and
piss-testing.”

Deborah Small, Director of Public Policy and Community Outreach at
Lindesmith-NYC, countered Glasser’s statements by asking, “How can you
question anything that gets people out of the living death of prison? We
have to engage with what is actually happening in the criminal justice
system, and coerced treatment is an alternative to incarceration.”

I can personally vouch for the fact that jail is not healthy or fun, nor did
spending time inside ever keep me from wanting to get high. When the judge
first mandated me into treatment, I thought it was a far better choice than
a trip through jail. Not by any means do I support incarceration for any
drug offense (which I hadn’t been charged with at that time, anyway), but
treatment at that point wasn’t better for me. It merely exacerbated my
already high stress levels by focusing on immediately eradicating my drug
use to the exclusion of all else, which I in turn dealt with by doing more
drugs. This was when I first heard that I had a disease called “addiction,”
that I had no control, that all substance use was substance abuse, that any
drug use would lead me straight to jails, institutions, or death. As I
wouldn’t accept this, even daring to question these assertions, I was in
“denial.” Coerced drug treatment ordered by the court did nothing but
prolong my legal and personal difficulties.

“In thinking about linkages between drug treatment and criminal sanctions,
it is important to distinguish between questions of effectiveness and
fairness,” explains a recent report from the National Academy of
Sciences.[5] “Supporters of using the criminal justice system for
therapeutic leverage typically view treatment participation offered to
offenders as an ameliorative device–an opportunity for mitigating the
sentence they would otherwise receive (i.e., probation with treatment is
offered in lieu of incarceration, using the threat of incarceration for
noncompliance). Others worry that programs of mandated treatment will
actually have the effect of increasing the severity of punishment compared
with what the offenders would otherwise have received. As an example,
offenders who otherwise would have been sentenced to traditional probation
could be subject to treatment conditions that create a risk of imprisonment
(for noncompliance) that otherwise wouldn’t have existed. Or an offender
whose case might otherwise have been dismissed could be sentenced to
conditional probation. These are classic ‘net-widening’ concerns, because
they widen the reach and deepen the intensity of punishment. This issue
should be kept in mind in considering research on coerced treatment.”

Lock ‘Em Up, One Way of the Other

“Because when the smack begins to flow I really don’t care anymore, about
all the Jim-Jims in this town, and all the politicians making crazy sounds,
and everybody putting everybody else down, and all the dead bodies piled up
in mounds.” –Lou Reed[6]

Reading through the statistics, the numbers of people being arrested and
going on to jail in the US for drug offenses are offensive.
snip (thyere’s quite a bit more of this essay at the above URL, so be sure
to visit) –
Endnotes

1.Jansen, Karl L.R., M.D., Ph.D. “Ketamine: Dreams and Realities.”
Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies (2001): 260.

2. See: .

3. Lindesmith Center-Drug Policy Foundation: Broadening the Debate on Drugs
and Drug Policy .

4. Held in Albuquerque, New Mexico, 30 May – 2 June 2001. “Conference
Report: As Drug Reform Edges Closer to Mainstream (or Vice Versa), Fractures
Emerge Over Politics of Treatment.” Week Online With DRCNet 189 (8 June
2001). .

5.Committee on Data and Research for Policy on Illegal Drugs, Charles F.
Manski, John V. Pepper, and Carol V. Petrie, Editors. “Informing America’s
Policy on Illegal Drugs: What We Don’t Know Keeps Hurting Us.” Committee on
Law and Justice and Committee on National Statistics, National Research
Council (2001): 238.

6. Reed, Lou. “Heroin.” Performed by the Velvet Underground. The Velvet
Underground and Nico. Verve, 1967.

—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 8:47 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] vaccine

Hi Preston,

They could make it like the Hep B vaccine that they give you at birth. Hep
B in seldom life threatening and is almost always caught by tainted blood or
sex. So why in the hell do they give it to a new born baby? Off hand I
would have to say money for the drug company and/or a great way to
experiment on the citizens of the U.S. like they did to homosexuals in New
York City. Also, durning the 60s ninty percent or more of the LSD was made
by the C.I.A. XTC is made in Europe by Jewish chemist. If the government
is going to make the stuff and distribute it, I think they should reduce the
penelties from years in jail to 30 days maximum.

I am sure you heard of a judge either ordering a person into a drug abuse
program or jail. This sounds like the next step, you either take the
vaccine or do five or ten years in the joint, your choice. Duress? What do
you mean duress? There doing you a favor, right.

Take care,

– JIM

remainder snipped-

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Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete – You start. We finish.

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [drugwar] Fw: [ibogaine] Stop H.R. 4547!
Date: June 29, 2004 at 11:52:36 PM EDT
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: drugwar@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 10:27 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Stop H.R. 4547!

ORIGINAL MESSAGE

In a message dated 6/29/04 8:17:30 PM, Swftl@aol.com writes:

<< Dear Friends:

Well, this isn’t a week of all good news.

Here is a message from Eric Sterling, and a forwarded message from FAMM.

Nora

U.S. Rep. Jim Sensenbrenner (R-WI), Chairman of the House Judiciary

Committee, has introduced an incredibly bad bill, H.R. 4547.

Print the bill out at http://thomas.loc.gov/ by entering H.R. 4547 in the

box.

It would provide a 10-year mandatory minimum for a parent who shares

marijuana with their child, plus a 4-level sentencing enhancement. If the

parent has a prior drug offense — even a 25-year old marijuana citation as

a college student, the sentence is mandatory life without parole.

The mandatory minimum for selling marijuana on or within 1000 feet of a

college campus is raised to 5 years. (This also includes selling any drugs

within 1000 feet of any school, public library, swimming pool, video

arcade, public or private daycare facility).

It creates a new crime of distributing drugs within 1000 feet of a drug

treatment facility with a mandatory sentence of 5 years up to life

imprisonment.

It creates a new crime of distributing (or offering to distribute) drugs

(or attempting or conspiring to do so) to a person enrolled in a drug

treatment facility, under a court order to do so, or “who has previously

been enrolled in a drug treatment program or facility” with a mandatory

minimum of 5 years up to life.

Think about the pressures to snitch and make up stuff for a junkie who is

charged with attempting to sell or offering to sell drugs to another junkie

who was once in drug treatment. This sounds like the trumpet call for a

nationwide perjury festival.

Think about how this new offense could be used by DEA to target doctors who

treat pain. Send an undercover in for pain medication and let it drop that

they are now clean because the treatment program they were in worked.

This would make any kind of sub rosa maintenance treatment subject to a

mandatory minimum of 5 years up to life, and, I failed to mention, a

$4,000,000 fine! Any kind of prior conviction, mandatory life imprisonment.

Below is an action alert that FAMM is sending out to our members tonight

on the new Sensenbrenner bill, H.R. 4547. It contains a link to the bill

analysis done by Mary Price, FAMM’s general counsel and a link to FAMM’s

action center, where members can e-mail their federal rep in opposition to

the bill. For printing ease, I’m also attaching the documents below.

Please distribute this information to our allies. This is a very bad bill

and we hope we can stop it.

Thanks so much for your help,

Monica Pratt

FAMM

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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<)[%]

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Stop H.R. 4547!
Date: June 29, 2004 at 10:27:50 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

ORIGINAL MESSAGE

In a message dated 6/29/04 8:17:30 PM, Swftl@aol.com writes:

<< Dear Friends:

Well, this isn’t a week of all good news.

Here is a message from Eric Sterling, and a forwarded message from FAMM.

Nora

U.S. Rep. Jim Sensenbrenner (R-WI), Chairman of the House Judiciary

Committee, has introduced an incredibly bad bill, H.R. 4547.

Print the bill out at http://thomas.loc.gov/ by entering H.R. 4547 in the

box.

It would provide a 10-year mandatory minimum for a parent who shares

marijuana with their child, plus a 4-level sentencing enhancement. If the

parent has a prior drug offense — even a 25-year old marijuana citation as

a college student, the sentence is mandatory life without parole.

The mandatory minimum for selling marijuana on or within 1000 feet of a

college campus is raised to 5 years. (This also includes selling any drugs

within 1000 feet of any school, public library, swimming pool, video

arcade, public or private daycare facility).

It creates a new crime of distributing drugs within 1000 feet of a drug

treatment facility with a mandatory sentence of 5 years up to life

imprisonment.

It creates a new crime of distributing (or offering to distribute) drugs

(or attempting or conspiring to do so) to a person enrolled in a drug

treatment facility, under a court order to do so, or “who has previously

been enrolled in a drug treatment program or facility” with a mandatory

minimum of 5 years up to life.

Think about the pressures to snitch and make up stuff for a junkie who is

charged with attempting to sell or offering to sell drugs to another junkie

who was once in drug treatment.  This sounds like the trumpet call for a

nationwide perjury festival.

Think about how this new offense could be used by DEA to target doctors who

treat pain.  Send an undercover in for pain medication and let it drop that

they are now clean because the treatment program they were in worked.

This would make any kind of sub rosa maintenance treatment subject to a

mandatory minimum of 5 years up to life, and, I failed to mention, a

$4,000,000 fine! Any kind of prior conviction, mandatory life imprisonment.

Below is an action alert that FAMM is sending out to our members tonight

on the new Sensenbrenner bill, H.R. 4547.  It contains a link to the bill

analysis done by Mary Price, FAMM’s general counsel and a link to FAMM’s

action center, where members can e-mail their federal rep in opposition to

the bill. For printing ease, I’m also attaching the documents below.

Please distribute this information to our allies. This is a very bad bill

and we hope we can stop it.

Thanks so much for your help,

Monica Pratt

FAMM

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] vaccine
Date: June 29, 2004 at 9:59:19 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Sara,

My compliments, I would bet less than 1 out of 100 would know that they have mercury in one of the vaccines.  Then the government tells them to use something else but allow the drug companies to finish their supply.  I am not sure but I think the mercury level is something like 100 time the safty limits.  Autism cases have increased many times and it is tied to the vaccine.  Now, Mr. Bush, our president, wants to limit the amount that the drug company is liable for.  See, the U.S. has a fund for those who are hurt by the vaccine.  Now, tell me how much is a kid worth?  How much would be a fair price to see your child become autistic,  $100,000,  $5,000,000?  For a few bucks more they could throw the old stuff out and make new stuff.  They just don’t care.  The funny thing is they don’t care, but moneywise it would be cheaper to throw the poisoned stuff out and use the new stuff.  God, was I worried about it when my girl got her mercury vaccine.  You may want to check out some archives at a site called rense.com.  They talk about things like that.  Hey, isn’t putting poison in a vaccine made for children terrorism?

I am glad to see that someone else knows about the mercury in the vaccine.  It is never mentioned in the mainstream press.  The docs never mention it. I tell people things like that and they think I don’t know what the hell I’m talking about.  What company would put mercury in high doses in a vaccine for kids?  Sad thing is it is true.  I am so happy that someone else knows.  Ever try telling someone things like that and you can tell by the look on their face that they think your nuts?  I believe that they outlawed the mercury vaccine in the U.K.  If I am not mistaking I believe it is the PDT vaccine.  If you know the one they put the mercury in, PLEASE post it.  Maybe, just maybe, one person will ask and maybe we can save one person and one family from having a perfectly good child from having autisum.

So glad you wrote,

– JIM

Sara Glatt <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:
Ask yourself”can I send my kids to a public school if they were not
vaccinated as babies”? why not? Are they contagious?

In many countries it is not possible to refuse a child vaccine programme.
Even when it is proven that the mercury added to the vaccine can harm a
child health more then the sickness itself.
A parent will be charged and go to jail and the kid will be vaccinated
anyways.
There are some superior people around who knows what is good for everyone
And we shouldn’t think too much or we will be punished for questioning those
who are superior.

S

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Verzonden: dinsdag 29 juni 2004 16:54
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [ibogaine] vaccine

Nowwarat wrote >But I’m afraid of what will happen down the raod. One day
you won’t be able to get into college or get a loan or perhaps have
citizenship without submitting to the “vaccine”. After all if you have no
intention of using illegal subsances why would you have any objection to
submitting to a procedure that proves you won’t be unwillingly drugged one
day or succumb to it?<

Boy, this is one hell of a scary thought, thanks for this start to my day.
This is though the very same excuse for every other drugwar related
rights-taking that has happened in the last few decades- “if you aren’t
doing anything wrong, why are you worried?” Face recognition cameras leap to
mind, as does the recent Supreme Court ruling saying we haven’t the right to
refuse to incriminate ourselves by releaving our names to any cop who
“feels” we’re suspicious.
Police State Central.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Nowwarat@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, June 28, 2004 9:37 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] vaccine

Now they call it a vaccine .Sounds innocent enough , especially to help
pitiful and desperate addicts stay sober. It doesn’t really stop the person
from craving the relief, feeling or rush the drug offers.Rather it prevents
the person from feeling the effects by making so that it can no longer gain
access to their brain.

But I’m afraid of what will happen down the raod. One day you won’t be able
to get into college or get a loan or perhaps have citizenship without
submitting to the “vaccine”. After all if you have no intention of using
illegal subsances why would you have any objection to submitting to a
procedure that proves you won’t be unwillingly drugged one day or succumb to
it?

What better way to ensure a straight society that’s all work and no play
except what is on the approved list.Tkae the “cure” and we won’t have to
subject you to those messy urine tests.

Nowwarat

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] vaccine
Date: June 29, 2004 at 9:46:34 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I am sure you heard of a judge either ordering a person into a drug abuse
program or jail.<

Funny enough, yes, I have heard of this Jim, and have posted the article
here on this list before, but I think there are a number of new subscribers,
so I’ll post the following excerpt and those who wish to read the whole
thing can at the URL just below.
Peace,
Preston

http://www.drugwar.com/ptreatjail.shtm

Treatment or Jail- Is This Really a Choice?
by Preston Peet
(originally published in Everything You Know Is Wrong-
Disinformation Books, 2002-
edited by Russ Kick)
posted at Drugwar.com August 29, 2002

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment can easily
be mistaken for madness.” –Martin (Asylum 1996-1997)[1]
Some people take drugs to escape difficult life situations. Some take drugs
to assist in treating pain, physical or psychological. Some take drugs
simply to get high. The reasons for taking drugs are legion. But under the
War on Some Drugs prohibition, the US government has given itself the right
to dictate which drugs and highs are acceptable. Now a movement is growing
in the US to push those convicted of drug charges into drug treatment
instead of jail.

Although US jails can be hellish and cruel, a certain percentage of people
willfully continue to get high on any assortment of illicit (and licit)
substances no matter what the law says. So they must be crazy or sick and
therefore in need of behavior modification and mind control. In other words,
drug treatment.

While living in Florida in 1987, I was arrested on a misdemeanor charge
completely unrelated to drugs. Sitting in jail unable to make bail, I was
taken from my cellblock one morning to meet with a man from TASC (Treatment
Alternatives to Street Crime).[2] Naïve and unsuspecting, I was open with
him about my drug use, listing all the drugs I had ingested up to that point
in my life. It was a long list.

A week or so later, when I finally got to court, I was stunned when the same
TASC evaluator stood up before the judge and told her I had a “drug problem”
and needed to be placed into treatment. The judge sentenced me to a year of
probation and to successful completion of the TASC program.

I fought it all the way. I was using some drugs then, abusing some others,
and dealing with other problems, as well. I was told that the TASC program
lasted twelve to eighteen months on average and that my probation would not
be finished in twelve months unless I’d graduated from TASC. After a couple
of months in the outpatient treatment program, I was being urine-tested each
week–Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, then Tuesday and Thursday on
alternating weeks. After dodging these testing sessions as much as possible,
and repeatedly trying to fool the tests, marijuana and cocaine turned up in
my urine. I was taken to see the head of the program, who told me he was
notifying my probation officer and would be in court to recommend the
maximum jail time for me, as I was “incorrigible and untreatable.”

Basically, he was right. I was, and still am, incorrigible but not
necessarily untreatable. This doesn’t mean that I personally want or need
treatment now, nor do I support treatment for others unless it is entirely
voluntary. Under current US War on Some Drugs policies, how often is drug
treatment really voluntary?

The Therapeutic State

“Coerced treatment is an oxymoron. Government intrusion by police and arrest
is anti-treatment. I am not against treatment; I am against
government-compelled treatment,” said ACLU Executive Director Ira Glasser at
the Lindesmith Center-Drug Policy Foundation’s[3] international drug policy
reform conference.[4] Continuing with a dire prognostication, Glasser said,
“Fusing the police power of the state with medicine corrupts medicine and
makes it a tool of the state. Then we get the therapeutic state and pretend
that is progress. The worst danger is an ever-expanding net of social
control. The ‘benevolence’ of coerced treatment is a trap. It will allow the
state to define acceptable treatment, and that means abstinence and
piss-testing.”

Deborah Small, Director of Public Policy and Community Outreach at
Lindesmith-NYC, countered Glasser’s statements by asking, “How can you
question anything that gets people out of the living death of prison? We
have to engage with what is actually happening in the criminal justice
system, and coerced treatment is an alternative to incarceration.”

I can personally vouch for the fact that jail is not healthy or fun, nor did
spending time inside ever keep me from wanting to get high. When the judge
first mandated me into treatment, I thought it was a far better choice than
a trip through jail. Not by any means do I support incarceration for any
drug offense (which I hadn’t been charged with at that time, anyway), but
treatment at that point wasn’t better for me. It merely exacerbated my
already high stress levels by focusing on immediately eradicating my drug
use to the exclusion of all else, which I in turn dealt with by doing more
drugs. This was when I first heard that I had a disease called “addiction,”
that I had no control, that all substance use was substance abuse, that any
drug use would lead me straight to jails, institutions, or death. As I
wouldn’t accept this, even daring to question these assertions, I was in
“denial.” Coerced drug treatment ordered by the court did nothing but
prolong my legal and personal difficulties.

“In thinking about linkages between drug treatment and criminal sanctions,
it is important to distinguish between questions of effectiveness and
fairness,” explains a recent report from the National Academy of
Sciences.[5] “Supporters of using the criminal justice system for
therapeutic leverage typically view treatment participation offered to
offenders as an ameliorative device–an opportunity for mitigating the
sentence they would otherwise receive (i.e., probation with treatment is
offered in lieu of incarceration, using the threat of incarceration for
noncompliance). Others worry that programs of mandated treatment will
actually have the effect of increasing the severity of punishment compared
with what the offenders would otherwise have received. As an example,
offenders who otherwise would have been sentenced to traditional probation
could be subject to treatment conditions that create a risk of imprisonment
(for noncompliance) that otherwise wouldn’t have existed. Or an offender
whose case might otherwise have been dismissed could be sentenced to
conditional probation. These are classic ‘net-widening’ concerns, because
they widen the reach and deepen the intensity of punishment. This issue
should be kept in mind in considering research on coerced treatment.”

Lock ‘Em Up, One Way of the Other

“Because when the smack begins to flow I really don’t care anymore, about
all the Jim-Jims in this town, and all the politicians making crazy sounds,
and everybody putting everybody else down, and all the dead bodies piled up
in mounds.” –Lou Reed[6]

Reading through the statistics, the numbers of people being arrested and
going on to jail in the US for drug offenses are offensive.
snip (thyere’s quite a bit more of this essay at the above URL, so be sure
to visit) –
Endnotes

1.Jansen, Karl L.R., M.D., Ph.D. “Ketamine: Dreams and Realities.”
Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies (2001): 260.

2. See: <www.uwsrq.com/First_Call/7y12yg7a.HTM>.

3. Lindesmith Center-Drug Policy Foundation: Broadening the Debate on Drugs
and Drug Policy <www.lindesmith.org>.

4. Held in Albuquerque, New Mexico, 30 May – 2 June 2001. “Conference
Report: As Drug Reform Edges Closer to Mainstream (or Vice Versa), Fractures
Emerge Over Politics of Treatment.” Week Online With DRCNet 189 (8 June
2001). <www.drcnet.org/wol/189.htmlconferencereport>.

5.Committee on Data and Research for Policy on Illegal Drugs, Charles F.
Manski, John V. Pepper, and Carol V. Petrie, Editors. “Informing America’s
Policy on Illegal Drugs: What We Don’t Know Keeps Hurting Us.” Committee on
Law and Justice and Committee on National Statistics, National Research
Council (2001): 238.

6. Reed, Lou. “Heroin.” Performed by the Velvet Underground. The Velvet
Underground and Nico. Verve, 1967.

—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 8:47 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] vaccine

Hi Preston,

They could make it like the Hep B vaccine that they give you at birth.  Hep
B in seldom life threatening and is almost always caught by tainted blood or
sex.  So why in the hell do they give it to a new born baby?  Off hand I
would have to say money for the drug company and/or a great way to
experiment on the citizens of the U.S. like they did to homosexuals in New
York City.  Also, durning the 60s ninty percent or more of the LSD was made
by the C.I.A.  XTC is made in Europe by Jewish chemist.  If the government
is going to make the stuff and distribute it, I think they should reduce the
penelties from years in jail to 30 days maximum.

I am sure you heard of a judge either ordering a person into a drug abuse
program or jail.  This sounds like the next step, you either take the
vaccine or do five or ten years in the joint, your choice.  Duress?  What do
you mean duress?  There doing you a favor, right.

Take care,

– JIM

remainder snipped-

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] searching for ibogaine
Date: June 29, 2004 at 8:55:43 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Many interesting articles on ibogaine are available on the web.  Here is one
for amusement.  Born Again with Ibogaine? From Molecule of the Month.

http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/motm/ibogaine/ibogainej.htm

Howard

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] vaccine
Date: June 29, 2004 at 8:47:51 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Preston,

They could make it like the Hep B vaccine that they give you at birth.  Hep B in seldom life threatening and is almost always caught by tainted blood or sex.  So why in the hell do they give it to a new born baby?  Off hand I would have to say money for the drug company and/or a great way to experiment on the citizens of the U.S. like they did to homosexuals in New York City.  Also, durning the 60s ninty percent or more of the LSD was made by the C.I.A.  XTC is made in Europe by Jewish chemist.  If the government is going to make the stuff and distribute it, I think they should reduce the penelties from years in jail to 30 days maximum.

I am sure you heard of a judge either ordering a person into a drug abuse program or jail.  This sounds like the next step, you either take the vaccine or do five or ten years in the joint, your choice.  Duress?  What do you mean duress?  There doing you a favor, right.

Take care,

– JIM

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Nowwarat wrote >But I’m afraid of what will happen down the raod. One day
you won’t be able to get into college or get a loan or perhaps have
citizenship without submitting to the “vaccine”. After all if you have no
intention of using illegal subsances why would you have any objection to
submitting to a procedure that proves you won’t be unwillingly drugged one
day or succumb to it?<

Boy, this is one hell of a scary thought, thanks for this start to my day.
This is though the very same excuse for every other drugwar related
rights-taking that has happened in the last few decades- “if you aren’t
doing anything wrong, why are you worried?” Face recognition cameras leap to
mind, as does the recent Supreme Court ruling saying we haven’t the right to
refuse to incriminate ourselves by releaving our names to any cop who
“feels” we’re suspicious.
Police State Central.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Nowwarat@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, June 28, 2004 9:37 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] vaccine

Now they call it a vaccine .Sounds innocent enough , especially to help
pitiful and desperate addicts stay sober. It doesn’t really stop the person
from craving the relief, feeling or rush the drug offers.Rather it prevents
the person from feeling the effects by making so that it can no longer gain
access to their brain.

But I’m afraid of what will happen down the raod. One day you won’t be able
to get into college or get a loan or perhaps have citizenship without
submitting to the “vaccine”. After all if you have no intention of using
illegal subsances why would you have any objection to submitting to a
procedure that proves you won’t be unwillingly drugged one day or succumb to
it?

What better way to ensure a straight society that’s all work and no play
except what is on the approved list.Tkae the “cure” and we won’t have to
subject you to those messy urine tests.

Nowwarat

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__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] vaccine
Date: June 29, 2004 at 8:10:41 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi,

The more I read about harm reduction and ibogaine, the more I have come to question some of the crap I have been fed about overcoming addiction for the last twenty years ( I made my first 12 step meeting at 19).  One of the fundamental beliefs of 12 step based rehabs is that until you stop the drug, you cannot discover  why you used.  I stopped many times over the years, but then I was simply told that admitting powerlessness was enough, and it did not matter why I used.

Now that I found myself feeling a deep necessity to stop heroin and crack, I find that only way to stop, for me, is to really get deep and look at what drew me to those drugs in the first place.  And keep me with them, even when my life was falling apart, even after being detoxed and in no physical need of them.  I also have found for myself that  that I have all the power there is over whether a crackpipe goes back in my mouth, or needle in my arm….ain’t no powerlessness about it.

This thread on the vaccine has really led to a very deep place with many on the list I have noticed.  Thanks for bringing it up.

Sean

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] ibogaine questionnaire
Date: June 29, 2004 at 5:58:15 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Anyone who had been treated with ibogaine is requested to fill out an
ibogaine treatment questionnaire.

http://www.med.vu.nl/ibogaine/

Howard

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Hi All
Date: June 29, 2004 at 5:28:34 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

patients of sick patient
children<

Sorry, this should read “sick patients OR sick patient children” not OF.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 12:52 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Hi All

I think that addicted peoples can do everything if they could get regular
drugs. The problem is this shit is illegal. Those days my life totaly
normal.<

Many people on methadone totally put the lie to prohibition, in that they,
like you, live relatively normal lives as they are getting the drug they
need without legal hassle. It’s too bad that so many clinics apparently do
what they can to make their clients feel like sick patients of sick
patient
children rather than human beings. It’s also too bad more people don’t see
and understand this, that if we simply stopped chasing these people and
their dealers we’d have a lot fewer problems.
But then, here I am preaching to the choir.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Mustafa izgi
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 4:06 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] Hi All

Hi Everybody,

I’m still here and watching what’s going on. If I could write my feelings
to
you you’ll know about me better but language problem doesn’t let me to do
it.

By the way What’s that vaccine? Did I missed something please inform me.

Once I tried quitt drugs totaly even smoke and it’s not bad as you
affraid.
By the time everything goes normal. But it’s very hard in the begining. ,

Please don’t talk about suicide beacuse sometimes I think about it and I
don’t want remember. Many of my best friends are all dead and gone.
Sometimes I think that should I go to be with them.

Those days I’m working and making money like ordinary peoples do. I’m very
happy. I’m in a met program. I think that addicted peoples can do
everything
if they could get regular drugs. The problem is this shit is illegal.
Those
days my life totaly normal.

Best Regards
placebo

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From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Jason
Date: June 29, 2004 at 4:45:00 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

For what its worth – I absolutely agree with Y’all on this subject.
I wish there could be some way to convince the general public of
this which would remove the stigma.  I’ve been fighting this fight
with docs and whomever from the day one.

well, there’s increasing scientific evidence that supports the idea that
some people are genetically predisposed to developing addiction, just like
some people are genetically predisposed to developing cancer or heart
disease.

for example:
http://health.discovery.com/news/healthscout/article.jsp?aid=517510&tid=17

of course, convincing the public that this is a reason why would should
treat addiction as a disease and not a moral failing… well, that’s
another issue entirely…

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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: June 29, 2004 at 4:18:25 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“ it takes months to start feeling a sense of well being. “
Julian do you know why it takes such a long time ?  after all at the methadone clinics they tell that it doesn’t attack the bone marrow.
Some people say it does and some don’t, people tell me it feels as it does things to you physically,
What is your experience having to take 140 mgs per day?

Van: Sapphirestardus@aol.com [mailto:Sapphirestardus@aol.com] 
Verzonden: dinsdag 29 juni 2004 20:18
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe

Hello Terrell. My name is Julian (sapphirestardust). I’m about your age-49. I’ve been on drugs since age 10 and the last 23 years have been on methadone-140mgs. You have precisely stated why I  have accepted the fact that as it is with my antidepressant, I will probably take methadone for the rest of my life. The lack of energy and motivation to get up, get it together and face the day is my greatest fear. Though it is possible that some of the people who detoxed exaggerated the ill feelings, it is not likely that everyone would. Every person I’ve talked with about detoxing says the same thing: it takes months to start feeling a sense of well being. The thing is, I believe Iboga/Ibogaine might be different than othere forms of detox. I intend to experience Iboga/Ibogaine but I’m not going to make a firm decision as to whether or not I should be drug free before my experience. After it, I may want to give up all my meds. I’m going to allow the experience to help me make such a decision. I think it might be good for you to try this approach. Don’t go into the experience with any expectations nor any demanding goals. I would use it to just gain alot of insight into yourself in relation to drugs and other behavior you find undesirable. Maybe afterwards, you will lose your desire for everything, maybe you will feel that certain meds are good for you. Whatever happens will happen. That’s what I believe is so wonderful about the drug and it’s effects. The experience will help you decide. So you go in blank and come out not blank(?) 
                                                           It’s nice to hear from you, 
                                                                  Julian

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] vaccine
Date: June 29, 2004 at 3:20:09 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The problem Jim is using your line of logic escapes them due to low
intelligence level and emotional committment to power and control.<

You’ve reminded me of something Julian that I just wrote recently. The
following is my editor’s note introducing a story I’ve included in a book
titled Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs, a book I’ve
edited for The Disinformation Company (http://www.disinfo.com) that will be
released this coming October nationwide, and in Canada and Great Britain.
It’s actually a chapter from a STILL unpublished book I wrote a few years
back about, what else, my life getting high.
;-))

snippet >The following story is from an unpublished manuscript of mine
titled Something in the Way, relating my own experiences strung out on
illegal street drugs, trying to make it day to day as a junkie living on the
streets under prohibition policies. Dedicated to getting myself as far from
my emotions and chronic pain as possible using lots of hard drugs for years,
I’d first been introduced to opiates during extensive medical procedures
after a serious car accident in my teens. It never helped to explain the
reasons for getting high to police and prohibitionists though, because they
did not want to know. To them, all illicit drug use is bad. While the way I
used to get high was much of the time extremely self-destructive, things
usually just got worse once the police got involved.<

(Whole editor’s note)

Appendix A-

[TITLE] Haircut:
Trippin’ Through a Day in the Life

[BYLINE] By Preston Peet

—–

[INTRO] Editor’s note- Under the Influence is a book full of hard journalism
and social commentary. With what you glean from this book is it hoped that
you will be able to see past the lies and propaganda driving the War on Some
Drugs and Users and vote for those representative who will end the War. Now
it’s time to take a look at the War from a more personal viewpoint.

[PULL QUOTE- While the way I used to get high was much of the time extremely
self-destructive, things usually just got worse once the police got
involved.]

The following story is from an unpublished manuscript of mine titled
Something in the Way, relating my own experiences strung out on illegal
street drugs, trying to make it day to day as a junkie living on the streets
under prohibition policies. Dedicated to getting myself as far from my
emotions and chronic pain as possible using lots of hard drugs for years, I’
d first been introduced to opiates during extensive medical procedures after
a serious car accident in my teens. It never helped to explain the reasons
for getting high to police and prohibitionists though, because they did not
want to know. To them, all illicit drug use is bad. While the way I used to
get high was much of the time extremely self-destructive, things usually
just got worse once the police got involved.

In this particular story, the police were trying to do what they thought was
the right thing, but for me it was not the right thing, it merely gave me
something else to feel guilty over and stress about when it did not work
out. The way we treat most illicit drug use and users in this country does
not differentiate between individual users and their circumstances. A
treatment modality that works well for one person might and often does only
make matters worse for the next. For that matter, not everyone who uses or
even abuses drugs is best served by stopping altogether, which is the
rational behind long-term methadone maintenance for instance. It’s time to
stop chasing after the people who find whatever it is they need in currently
illicit drugs, and to start thinking of ways to reduce what harms can and do
sometimes accrue from drug abuse to both the user and to society at large.
In the end, without prohibition the following story simply wouldn’t happen.

On another note, there is some debate about the reality of the “coke bugs”
mentioned in this story, with some cocaine abusers insisting, even years
after stopping their use of cocaine, that the bugs were and are real, that
they really aren’t hallucinations at all. I myself reserve judgment,
preferring these days to verbally debate the issue rather than conduct any
more experiments.

—– Original Message —–
From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 2:25 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] vaccine

Man, that’s the best answer to terrorism I’ve heard so far!  The problem Jim
is using your line of logic escapes them due to low intelligence level and
emotional committment to power and control. If buying drugs supports
terrorists, then let’s legalize the shit, manufacture them ourselves and
then we can deprive them of much needed funds!! Jim, my hat is off to you!
Thanks,

Julian

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From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Email yr text to new Kerry contact
Date: June 29, 2004 at 2:45:59 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: Carl-olsen@mchsi.com, writch@writch.com, toots_77@sbcglobal.net, tndangelo@aol.com, TCW@genesis-computer.com, ganjamama55@hotmail.com, mclcfaith@ameritech.net, T_Robertson@globe.com, indianbud@wirefire.com, mmackenzie2@juno.com, dangssdp@yahoo.com, jblotcher@hvc.rr.com, Jodi@flcan.org, hemptress@hemprock.com, richard.rawlings@sbcglobal.net, laurie.mischley@mac.com, randall@slackernet.com, ramillegan@aol.com, rmelamed@uccs.edu, revtombrown@hotmail.com, <btm42@hotmail.com>, NewOrleansMarch@hotmail.com, pcornwell@earthlink.net, smithmf@colorado.edu, nanabear@att.net, jay99hoo@yahoo.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Mary Beth Cahill’s secretary gave us a new hire to work with. One
Christine Sewell, who never actually saw the fax you sent the D.C.
office on Friday. Email yr text–again–to:

csewell@americansforkerry.com

Dana/cnw

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From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] vaccine
Date: June 29, 2004 at 2:25:00 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Man, that’s the best answer to terrorism I’ve heard so far!  The problem Jim is using your line of logic escapes them due to low intelligence level and emotional committment to power and control. If buying drugs supports terrorists, then let’s legalize the shit, manufacture them ourselves and then we can deprive them of much needed funds!! Jim, my hat is off to you!
Thanks,
Julian

From: “Hannah Clay” <spaglet@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] vaccine
Date: June 29, 2004 at 2:26:24 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I know I’m supposed to hate heroin but I can honestly say if it hadn’t been around for relief I’d have killed myself long ago!  Even now I’m on a Bup script theres still days I need to hide away and escape all the pain and H is the only thing that allows me to do it!  I’m not stupid – theres a reason I got into H!

—– Original Message —–
From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 9:18 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] vaccine

Hi Callie! Man, are you right. In my case, I’m pretty sure I either would have committed suicide or instead of striking inward, strike out hurting others. Since it is not in my nature to hurt people other than myself, I would have killed myself. When I was a teenager, there was a year when I lost 5 friends to suicide. It was a very devastating year but the one thing we all had in common was the fact that we were in a therapeutic community, (Hope House). After graduating, staying straight was a bitch. Eventually I stared getting high again. These 5 did not. They struggled with guilt and frustration. I’m not saying that if they began to get high, they might be alive today, but that is certainly the case with me!
Have a good one Callie,
Julian

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: June 29, 2004 at 2:18:23 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello Terrell. My name is Julian (sapphirestardust). I’m about your age-49. I’ve been on drugs since age 10 and the last 23 years have been on methadone-140mgs. You have precisely stated why I  have accepted the fact that as it is with my antidepressant, I will probably take methadone for the rest of my life. The lack of energy and motivation to get up, get it together and face the day is my greatest fear. Though it is possible that some of the people who detoxed exaggerated the ill feelings, it is not likely that everyone would. Every person I’ve talked with about detoxing says the same thing: it takes months to start feeling a sense of well being. The thing is, I believe Iboga/Ibogaine might be different than othere forms of detox. I intend to experience Iboga/Ibogaine but I’m not going to make a firm decision as to whether or not I should be drug free before my experience. After it, I may want to give up all my meds. I’m going to allow the experience to help me make such a decision. I think it might be good for you to try this approach. Don’t go into the experience with any expectations nor any demanding goals. I would use it to just gain alot of insight into yourself in relation to drugs and other behavior you find undesirable. Maybe afterwards, you will lose your desire for everything, maybe you will feel that certain meds are good for you. Whatever happens will happen. That’s what I believe is so wonderful about the drug and it’s effects. The experience will help you decide. So you go in blank and come out not blank(?)
It’s nice to hear from you,
Julian

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] vaccine
Date: June 29, 2004 at 1:13:04 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ask yourself”can I send my kids to a public school if they were not
vaccinated as babies”? why not? Are they contagious?

In many countries it is not possible to refuse a child vaccine programme.
Even when it is proven that the mercury added to the vaccine can harm a
child health more then the sickness itself.
A parent will be charged and go to jail and the kid will be vaccinated
anyways.
There are some superior people around who knows what is good for everyone
And we shouldn’t think too much or we will be punished for questioning those
who are superior.

S

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Verzonden: dinsdag 29 juni 2004 16:54
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [ibogaine] vaccine

Nowwarat wrote >But I’m afraid of what will happen down the raod. One day
you won’t be able to get into college or get a loan or perhaps have
citizenship without submitting to the  “vaccine”. After all if you have no
intention of using illegal subsances why would you have any objection to
submitting to a procedure that proves you won’t be unwillingly drugged one
day or succumb to it?<

Boy, this is one hell of a scary thought, thanks for this start to my day.
This is though the very same excuse for every other drugwar related
rights-taking that has happened in the last few decades- “if you aren’t
doing anything wrong, why are you worried?” Face recognition cameras leap to
mind, as does the recent Supreme Court ruling saying we haven’t the right to
refuse to incriminate ourselves by releaving our names to any cop who
“feels” we’re suspicious.
Police State Central.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Nowwarat@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, June 28, 2004 9:37 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] vaccine

Now they call it a vaccine .Sounds innocent enough , especially to help
pitiful and desperate addicts stay sober. It doesn’t really stop the person
from craving the relief, feeling or rush the drug offers.Rather it prevents
the person from feeling the effects by making so that it can no longer gain
access to their brain.

But I’m afraid of what will happen down the raod. One day you won’t be able
to get into college or get a loan or perhaps have citizenship without
submitting to the  “vaccine”. After all if you have no intention of using
illegal subsances why would you have any objection to submitting to a
procedure that proves you won’t be unwillingly drugged one day or succumb to
it?

What better way to ensure a straight society that’s all work and no play
except what is on the approved list.Tkae the “cure” and we won’t have to
subject you to those messy urine tests.

Nowwarat

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Detox or Die videos available
Date: June 29, 2004 at 1:05:18 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Dana,

Do you know anyone who’s selling them in the UK?

love to you, man

Nick Sandberg

—– Original Message —–
From: “Dana Beal” <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 26, 2004 8:17 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Detox or Die videos available

VHS BBC 1 “Detox or Die” videos now available for U.S. viewing!

$10 covers duplication + shipping .

A little more outside the U.S.–but remember these are U.S. television
format.

Send a check or just a Hamilton.

Payable to: Cures not Wars
9 Bleecker St.
New York, New York 10012

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From: Terrell Tye <trtye@gci.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: June 29, 2004 at 12:54:03 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Mark wrote: “I wanted to ask you if you were referring to the Iboga Association when you mentioned treatment in Mexico? I need to do this in the worst way but I live in NYC and my bills are insane and I don’t have 10,000 bucks layin around.”
Mark, yes it was the Iboga Association I talked to. The charge was to be $4,000.  I’m sure you can find as cheap or a cheaper fare to San Diego from New York than I can from Anchorage. But I agree, that’s a lot of money to come up with. I do like the idea of being in a hospital during the experience and I would expect to pay more for that reason. Good luck. trtye

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Hi All
Date: June 29, 2004 at 12:52:12 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I think that addicted peoples can do everything if they could get regular
drugs. The problem is this shit is illegal. Those days my life totaly
normal.<

Many people on methadone totally put the lie to prohibition, in that they,
like you, live relatively normal lives as they are getting the drug they
need without legal hassle. It’s too bad that so many clinics apparently do
what they can to make their clients feel like sick patients of sick patient
children rather than human beings. It’s also too bad more people don’t see
and understand this, that if we simply stopped chasing these people and
their dealers we’d have a lot fewer problems.
But then, here I am preaching to the choir.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Mustafa izgi
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 4:06 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] Hi All

Hi Everybody,

I’m still here and watching what’s going on. If I could write my feelings to
you you’ll know about me better but language problem doesn’t let me to do
it.

By the way What’s that vaccine? Did I missed something please inform me.

Once I tried quitt drugs totaly even smoke and it’s not bad as you affraid.
By the time everything goes normal. But it’s very hard in the begining. ,

Please don’t talk about suicide beacuse sometimes I think about it and I
don’t want remember. Many of my best friends are all dead and gone.
Sometimes I think that should I go to be with them.

Those days I’m working and making money like ordinary peoples do. I’m very
happy. I’m in a met program. I think that addicted peoples can do everything
if they could get regular drugs. The problem is this shit is illegal. Those
days my life totaly normal.

Best Regards
placebo

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] vaccine
Date: June 29, 2004 at 10:53:33 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Nowwarat wrote >But I’m afraid of what will happen down the raod. One day
you won’t be able to get into college or get a loan or perhaps have
citizenship without submitting to the  “vaccine”. After all if you have no
intention of using illegal subsances why would you have any objection to
submitting to a procedure that proves you won’t be unwillingly drugged one
day or succumb to it?<

Boy, this is one hell of a scary thought, thanks for this start to my day.
This is though the very same excuse for every other drugwar related
rights-taking that has happened in the last few decades- “if you aren’t
doing anything wrong, why are you worried?” Face recognition cameras leap to
mind, as does the recent Supreme Court ruling saying we haven’t the right to
refuse to incriminate ourselves by releaving our names to any cop who
“feels” we’re suspicious.
Police State Central.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Nowwarat@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, June 28, 2004 9:37 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] vaccine

Now they call it a vaccine .Sounds innocent enough , especially to help
pitiful and desperate addicts stay sober. It doesn’t really stop the person
from craving the relief, feeling or rush the drug offers.Rather it prevents
the person from feeling the effects by making so that it can no longer gain
access to their brain.

But I’m afraid of what will happen down the raod. One day you won’t be able
to get into college or get a loan or perhaps have citizenship without
submitting to the  “vaccine”. After all if you have no intention of using
illegal subsances why would you have any objection to submitting to a
procedure that proves you won’t be unwillingly drugged one day or succumb to
it?

What better way to ensure a straight society that’s all work and no play
except what is on the approved list.Tkae the “cure” and we won’t have to
subject you to those messy urine tests.

Nowwarat

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From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] maximum methadone to start on buprenorphine
Date: June 29, 2004 at 10:47:33 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

couple of days first. Why they are so fixed on keeping you to an exact
regimen  is a mystery to me.

Presumably because it makes less work for them. Remember, thanks to the
WOD, drug treatment gets next to squat for funding. So treatment centres
are often forced to cut corners where ever they can, inevitably resulting
in crappy quality of care.

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: June 29, 2004 at 10:32:31 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 6/29/04 5:01:08 AM, trtye@gci.net writes:

<< The biggest problem I’ve had with staying clean after being almost 2
months detoxed, is the absolute, total exhaustion, the no energy, the depression,
that stays for months after a methadone detox. That does and will lead me right
back to opiates. It sounds like Ibo also wipes you out but I don’t know how
long that lasts. Somehow I get the feeling that most of you folks are a lot
younger?? I’m trying to catch up with all the posts I’ve missed in the 3 weeks to
a month I’ve been away, but you guys write a lot. I’ve been reading for hours
and there’s still 124 posts I haven’t read. I’ve got to go to bed but I’d
love to wake up to little IBO/BUPE email fairies. I’ll listen to any advice with
much appreciation. Thanks all, TreadUpon, trtye >>

Providing you have no medical issues that would preclude your taking ibogaine
I don’t think you have anything to lose by trying it under medical
conditions.  Age is in many cases a factor in recovery from ibogaine effects as it is
with many drugs and many medical procedures.  But, if you are going in free of
opiates you don’t have to deal with withdrawal and that is a big plus to begin
with.  If your treatment follows the norm what you can expect after the
immediate effects of ibogaine is a few days of exhaustion (days two and three) and
then a rebound to enormous energy and a sense of well being that usually occurs
after you have had the opportunity to sleep.  But, it is important to
remember that every person responds somewhat differently not only to ibogaine but to
all drugs.  Possibly, to life as well. The most important thing for you to do
is talk to your provider about all your questions and concerns.  And, you can
also bring those questions to the list.  I would suggest you read
http://www.ibogaine.org/clin-perspectives.html and also the discussion section of the
manual for ibogaine therapy http://www.ibogaine.org/manual.html

Is my understanding you are no longer on buprenorphine correct?

Howard

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From: sara119@xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] vaccine
Date: June 29, 2004 at 9:58:21 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Please, don’t forget to write him  that about Hemp oil,
no need to go far for oil, grow it in the U.s

Hi Julian,

Yea, relate drugs to terrorism.  Reminds me of the 60’s there were drugs
and drugs but no terrorism.  The Feds were wondering how heroin was
getting in the country – the CIA was bringing it in.  Ollie North and gang
were bringing in Coke.  I am not going to boar you with the books I read
from college from former CIA agents.  But you most likely remember the
Brisish Tea and Opium Company (or something like that) they were selling
dope to China and China said no more everybody is mess up and the Britts
said bullshit we’re making money and we are going to sell it.  Thus
started the Opium War.

Now, if you smoke a joint it comes from a terrorist.  Hmmm, I think I will
write a letter to Bush and tell him to help stop terrorism people should
be allowed to grow pot, mushrooms, and those with a knowledge of chemistry
make X, LSD, whatever.  See, if we grow our own and make our own and
become dope independent (you thought I was gonna say oil didn’t you) we
will put terrorist out of bussiness.  Yea, I will write Bush a letter
maybe in a few days, or a week or so, I’ll get around to it.  You know he
really wants to hear what I have to say – LOL.

Later

– JIM

Sapphirestardus@aol.com wrote:
Good morning NOWWARAT! This definitely going to be part of our future. All
they have to do to convince people it’s the right thing to do is relate
drug taking to terrorism and how it will hurt “the children!” In the name
of safety and security people are more than happy to sacrifice some rights
and freedom.

Later
man,
Julian

———————————
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – 100MB free storage!

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] vaccine
Date: June 29, 2004 at 9:18:56 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Julian,

Yea, relate drugs to terrorism.  Reminds me of the 60’s there were drugs and drugs but no terrorism.  The Feds were wondering how heroin was getting in the country – the CIA was bringing it in.  Ollie North and gang were bringing in Coke.  I am not going to boar you with the books I read from college from former CIA agents.  But you most likely remember the Brisish Tea and Opium Company (or something like that) they were selling dope to China and China said no more everybody is mess up and the Britts said bullshit we’re making money and we are going to sell it.  Thus started the Opium War.

Now, if you smoke a joint it comes from a terrorist.  Hmmm, I think I will write a letter to Bush and tell him to help stop terrorism people should be allowed to grow pot, mushrooms, and those with a knowledge of chemistry make X, LSD, whatever.  See, if we grow our own and make our own and become dope independent (you thought I was gonna say oil didn’t you) we will put terrorist out of bussiness.  Yea, I will write Bush a letter maybe in a few days, or a week or so, I’ll get around to it.  You know he really wants to hear what I have to say – LOL.

Later

– JIM

Sapphirestardus@aol.com wrote:
Good morning NOWWARAT! This definitely going to be part of our future. All they have to do to convince people it’s the right thing to do is relate drug taking to terrorism and how it will hurt “the children!” In the name of safety and security people are more than happy to sacrifice some rights and freedom.

Later man,
Julian

Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – 100MB free storage!

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: June 29, 2004 at 8:50:37 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Trtye, Yes, we probably have stood in line together. If you ever come back Nashville way drop me an e-mail and we will meet for coffee or something!
Go for the Ibogaine! I am very jealous!
As far as the low energy and general funk you feel after detoxing from opiates, if I have heard right, Ibogaine helps with this in most people.
I would get in touch with the clinic in Mexico that is going to treat you and do whatever they say.
Please, please, please let us know how it goes!
I bet you will get a lot of feedback today!
Keep in touch!
Callie

From: “Mark Corcoran” <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: July 1, 2004 at 8:44:38 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I wanted to ask you if you were referring to the Iboga Association when you mentioned treatment in Mexico? I need to do this in the worst way but I live in NYC and my bills are insane and I don’t have 10,000 bucks layin around.
I have been speaking to an authority on the subject and he told me that was probably my best  bet but I’ve sent several emails to them but haven’t heard back. I’m gonna give them a call today but I thought I’d ask you if that was the treatment center you were talking about?

Also if anyone knows when there gonna start doing the treatment again in Vancouver please let me know. – Desperate to get off Meth.

—–Original Message—–
From: Terrell Tye [mailto:trtye@gci.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 6:00 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe

This is my first post and I’ve got to admit that I’ve been on and off with keeping up with this forum. I’d heard and read about Ibo a few years back but really had forgotten about it. Anyway, a few months ago, I started to research it and after a few calls decided that the Mexican treatment facility (in-hospital) might be the most appropriate for me. I’m a 51 year old female with hypothyroid and a (current) 80 mg. methadone habit. As far as opiates go, when I was around 22 or 23, I shot dope daily for about 9 months. I did and do truly love heroin. If I could get pharmaceutical grade without having to risk life and limb, I’d probably be on it now. But after a close brush with the law, I got off it with the help of very good speed (the excellent diet pills that were available in the early 1970’s) to get me out of bed in the morning and valium to get me down at night. I had tried a 21 day methadone detox but I knew how to medicate myself better than they did. Since then, there’s always been something there to numb the emptiness. Having two kids did help me straighten up for a long time. For the first 10-12 years of their lives, I basically stuck to a few drinks each evening and a couple of grams of coke a week, every blue moon a tiny flirtation with my true love. Then, (long story-shorter) new husband (sex addict)=massive amounts of cocaine=divorce after 7 years+(in combo with) selling my business that I’d started and loved=massive depression. During that equation, enter endometriosis=lots of pain=lots of hydrocodone=”Hey, this shit’s allright and I can get the house cleaned, the bills paid, the taxes done”=opiate addiction. I couldn’t tolerate 12 steps (forgive me those of you it’s saved). The local physician-owned clinic/treatment center was only too happy to get me on high doses of Methadone=here I am, 5 years later. (HI CALLIE, I MOVED OUT OF NASHVILLE A LITTLE OVER A YEAR AGO. I’M SURE WE’VE STOOD IN LINE TOGETHER AT MTTC.) Anyway, I gotten off methadone on my own 3 summers in a row by coming to Alaska. However, a few weeks after returning to Nashville, I’d be buying a few pills to help me catch up on all the crap I’d ignored while lying in bed feeling sorry for myself. Then a few weeks after that back on methadone to save money.
Okay, I’m really sorry it’s taken so long to get to the point. I am a wee bit high right now. Anyway, the point is— I was going to go to Mexico, probably in September, for the Ibo treatment. It scares the hell out of me, I’ve got to admit. I haven’t done psychedelics since I was 20 or 21 (30+ years ago) and the whole intensity and exhaustion I’ve been reading about, well…it’s terrifying and not too appealing. Then a few days ago, I got my turn in line with the Suboxone doctor. He wants me to wean down to 30 mgs or less or (preferably-to him only- I should just stop taking my Methadone and after I’m really feeling like shit- then I start by taking one (highest dose) the first day and increasing after that). After reading here and talking to some locals on the program, it sounds more and more like this is another maintenance program, not a detox. AND, all of a sudden, out of the blue, I have an opportunity to experience IBO at a greatly reduced cost. I really don’t know what to do or which way to go. Both?
The biggest problem I’ve had with staying clean after being almost 2 months detoxed, is the absolute, total exhaustion, the no energy, the depression, that stays for months after a methadone detox. That does and will lead me right back to opiates. It sounds like Ibo also wipes you out but I don’t know how long that lasts. Somehow I get the feeling that most of you folks are a lot younger?? I’m trying to catch up with all the posts I’ve missed in the 3 weeks to a month I’ve been away, but you guys write a lot. I’ve been reading for hours and there’s still 124 posts I haven’t read. I’ve got to go to bed but I’d love to wake up to little IBO/BUPE email fairies. I’ll listen to any advice with much appreciation. Thanks all, TreadUpon, trtye

From: Terrell Tye <trtye@gci.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: June 29, 2004 at 6:00:14 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This is my first post and I’ve got to admit that I’ve been on and off with keeping up with this forum. I’d heard and read about Ibo a few years back but really had forgotten about it. Anyway, a few months ago, I started to research it and after a few calls decided that the Mexican treatment facility (in-hospital) might be the most appropriate for me. I’m a 51 year old female with hypothyroid and a (current) 80 mg. methadone habit. As far as opiates go, when I was around 22 or 23, I shot dope daily for about 9 months. I did and do truly love heroin. If I could get pharmaceutical grade without having to risk life and limb, I’d probably be on it now. But after a close brush with the law, I got off it with the help of very good speed (the excellent diet pills that were available in the early 1970’s) to get me out of bed in the morning and valium to get me down at night. I had tried a 21 day methadone detox but I knew how to medicate myself better than they did. Since then, there’s always been something there to numb the emptiness. Having two kids did help me straighten up for a long time. For the first 10-12 years of their lives, I basically stuck to a few drinks each evening and a couple of grams of coke a week, every blue moon a tiny flirtation with my true love. Then, (long story-shorter) new husband (sex addict)=massive amounts of cocaine=divorce after 7 years+(in combo with) selling my business that I’d started and loved=massive depression. During that equation, enter endometriosis=lots of pain=lots of hydrocodone=”Hey, this shit’s allright and I can get the house cleaned, the bills paid, the taxes done”=opiate addiction. I couldn’t tolerate 12 steps (forgive me those of you it’s saved). The local physician-owned clinic/treatment center was only too happy to get me on high doses of Methadone=here I am, 5 years later. (HI CALLIE, I MOVED OUT OF NASHVILLE A LITTLE OVER A YEAR AGO. I’M SURE WE’VE STOOD IN LINE TOGETHER AT MTTC.) Anyway, I gotten off methadone on my own 3 summers in a row by coming to Alaska. However, a few weeks after returning to Nashville, I’d be buying a few pills to help me catch up on all the crap I’d ignored while lying in bed feeling sorry for myself. Then a few weeks after that back on methadone to save money.
Okay, I’m really sorry it’s taken so long to get to the point. I am a wee bit high right now. Anyway, the point is— I was going to go to Mexico, probably in September, for the Ibo treatment. It scares the hell out of me, I’ve got to admit. I haven’t done psychedelics since I was 20 or 21 (30+ years ago) and the whole intensity and exhaustion I’ve been reading about, well…it’s terrifying and not too appealing. Then a few days ago, I got my turn in line with the Suboxone doctor. He wants me to wean down to 30 mgs or less or (preferably-to him only- I should just stop taking my Methadone and after I’m really feeling like shit- then I start by taking one (highest dose) the first day and increasing after that). After reading here and talking to some locals on the program, it sounds more and more like this is another maintenance program, not a detox. AND, all of a sudden, out of the blue, I have an opportunity to experience IBO at a greatly reduced cost. I really don’t know what to do or which way to go. Both?
The biggest problem I’ve had with staying clean after being almost 2 months detoxed, is the absolute, total exhaustion, the no energy, the depression, that stays for months after a methadone detox. That does and will lead me right back to opiates. It sounds like Ibo also wipes you out but I don’t know how long that lasts. Somehow I get the feeling that most of you folks are a lot younger?? I’m trying to catch up with all the posts I’ve missed in the 3 weeks to a month I’ve been away, but you guys write a lot. I’ve been reading for hours and there’s still 124 posts I haven’t read. I’ve got to go to bed but I’d love to wake up to little IBO/BUPE email fairies. I’ll listen to any advice with much appreciation. Thanks all, TreadUpon, trtye

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Hi All
Date: June 29, 2004 at 4:25:32 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Placebo, you basically nailed the problem. Virtually all the problems we have as addicts are not related to DRUGS, but the fact that they are illegal. When 60 minutes did a show on England’s success at treating Heroine/Cocaine addiction, all the users received their drug of choice from a doctor and pharmacy. The problems they had before the ‘program’ were totally eliminated. Employment, disease, depression and some other problems no longer existed. I’m the last to say there would be no problems with legalizing drugs, just look at alcohol. The problems though are few and far between! Harm Reduction, Man!

Thanks,
Julian

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] vaccine
Date: June 29, 2004 at 4:18:15 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Callie! Man, are you right. In my case, I’m pretty sure I either would have committed suicide or instead of striking inward, strike out hurting others. Since it is not in my nature to hurt people other than myself, I would have killed myself. When I was a teenager, there was a year when I lost 5 friends to suicide. It was a very devastating year but the one thing we all had in common was the fact that we were in a therapeutic community, (Hope House). After graduating, staying straight was a bitch. Eventually I stared getting high again. These 5 did not. They struggled with guilt and frustration. I’m not saying that if they began to get high, they might be alive today, but that is certainly the case with me!
Have a good one Callie,
Julian

From: “Mustafa izgi” <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Hi All
Date: June 29, 2004 at 4:06:46 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Everybody,

I’m still here and watching what’s going on. If I could write my feelings to you you’ll know about me better but language problem doesn’t let me to do it.

By the way What’s that vaccine? Did I missed something please inform me.

Once I tried quitt drugs totaly even smoke and it’s not bad as you affraid. By the time everything goes normal. But it’s very hard in the begining. ,

Please don’t talk about suicide beacuse sometimes I think about it and I don’t want remember. Many of my best friends are all dead and gone. Sometimes I think that should I go to be with them.

Those days I’m working and making money like ordinary peoples do. I’m very happy. I’m in a met program. I think that addicted peoples can do everything if they could get regular drugs. The problem is this shit is illegal. Those days my life totaly normal.

Best Regards
placebo

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] vaccine
Date: June 29, 2004 at 4:00:26 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Good morning NOWWARAT! This definitely going to be part of our future. All they have to do to convince people it’s the right thing to do is relate drug taking to terrorism and how it will hurt “the children!” In the name of safety and security people are more than happy to sacrifice some rights and freedom.

Later man,
Julian

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] vaccine
Date: June 28, 2004 at 11:37:48 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Callie,

You know I had the same thought, but felt wary expressing it.  When I was a teenager in particular, I really think drugs were all that kept me from suicide.

Now that my health status is causing to seriously eliminate my “drugs of choice” (crack and herion) I am almost in a period of mourning.  But it is my choice.  damned if I would want some vaccine to make it for me.

If the vaccine were a choice, I guess it would not preturb me so much.  But as has been pointed out, it is ripe for governmental abuse, especially to the young.

Sean

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] vaccine
Date: June 28, 2004 at 11:29:07 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

It is my experience that drugs were a survival tool to deal with traumas absorbed in my childhood.

and thank goodness for those drugs, I don’t know what I would have turned to in their absence… hurting myself or others probably.

Vaccines for addiction? scary shit, if you ask me.

and I doubt it has “any” ibogaine molecules involved.

The machine doesn’t want us to have ibogaine, thats why it was scheduled class 1.

The machine doesn’t like spiritual awakenings.

The machine prefers automaton consumers.

“welcome my son, welcome to the machine.

what did you dream?

we told you what to dream…”

_.dh

On Monday, June 28, 2004, at 04:49 PM, CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:

This could drive a lot of folk to suicide.
I believe that addicts/alcoholics use and drink as a coping mechanism. Not a good coping skill but one just the same.

I use to get relief. Relief from things I either can’t handle or can’t handle well. Therefore my use is sometimes necessary to keep my crazy ass from going over the edge.

I really don’t know what would happen if the relief was taken away and no substitute given. I feel at times I would’ve either gone insane or would’ve committed suicide.

Rationalization? You bet!

Callie

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] vaccine
Date: June 28, 2004 at 10:49:42 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This could drive a lot of folk to suicide.
I believe that addicts/alcoholics use and drink as a coping mechanism. Not a good coping skill but one just the same.

I use to get relief. Relief from things I either can’t handle or can’t handle well. Therefore my use is sometimes necessary to keep my crazy ass from going over the edge.

I really don’t know what would happen if the relief was taken away and no substitute given. I feel at times I would’ve either gone insane or would’ve committed suicide.

Rationalization? You bet!

Callie

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] A Bit unusual
Date: June 28, 2004 at 10:42:41 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Forgive me….this has nothing to do with Ibogaine but pretty clever just the same
Callie

This has got to be one of the most clever 
E-mails I’ve received in awhile. 
Someone out there either has too much 
spare time or is deadly at Scrabble.

DORMITORY:
When you rearrange the letters:
DIRTY ROOM

PRESBYTERIAN:
When you rearrange the letters:
BEST IN PRAYER

DESPERATION:
When you rearrange the letters:
A ROPE ENDS IT

GEORGE BUSH:
When you rearrange the letters:
HE BUGS GORE

THE MORSE CODE:
When you rearrange the letters:
HERE COME DOTS

SLOT MACHINES:
When you rearrange the letters:
CASH LOST IN ME

ANIMOSITY:
When you rearrange the letters:
IS NO AMITY

MOTHER-IN-LAW:
When you rearrange the letters:
WOMAN HITLER

SNOOZE ALARMS:
When you rearrange the letters:
ALAS! NO MORE Z ‘S

A DECIMAL POINT:
When you rearrange the letters:
IM A DOT IN PLACE

THE EARTHQUAKES:
When you rearrange the letters:
THAT QUEER SHAKE

ELEVEN PLUS TWO:
When you rearrange the letters:
TWELVE PLUS ONE

Yep! Someone with waaaaaaaaaaay
too much time on their hands!

Bet your friends haven’t seen this one!!!
DON’T FORGET TO SHARE THIS

From: iboga@ziplip.com <iboga@ziplip.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] 111TexasRadio11111
Date: June 28, 2004 at 10:28:50 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Here’s an mp3 on the radio for a moment talking about Iboga.  In case you don’t know, these are the people grindin’ with the new people from Dallas Music and the founders of hip-hop like the D.O.C. etc.  This is a start to get some studio time at the D.O.C.’s studio in West Dallas so I can learn and talk to him more about Iboga do perhaps he can take the iboga ball and do much more with it then I could. Any help is welcome.
Here’s the MP3 of me on Texas radio this last Sat. night : )

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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] vaccine
Date: June 28, 2004 at 9:42:07 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Pass the urine bottle…..better that than Big Brother with a syringe.

sean

From: Nowwarat@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] vaccine
Date: June 28, 2004 at 9:37:27 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Now they call it a vaccine .Sounds innocent enough , especially to help pitiful and desperate addicts stay sober. It doesn’t really stop the person from craving the relief, feeling or rush the drug offers.Rather it prevents the person from feeling the effects by making so that it can no longer gain access to their brain.

But I’m afraid of what will happen down the raod. One day you won’t be able to get into college or get a loan or perhaps have citizenship without submitting to the  “vaccine”. After all if you have no intention of using illegal subsances why would you have any objection to submitting to a procedure that proves you won’t be unwillingly drugged one day or succumb to it?

What better way to ensure a straight society that’s all work and no play except what is on the approved list.Tkae the “cure” and we won’t have to subject you to those messy urine tests.

Nowwarat

From: <deartheo@ziplip.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fwd:British Biotech Firm Encouraged by Addiction Vaccine Results
Date: June 28, 2004 at 9:01:13 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: KayLee <kaylee1@CHARTER.NET>
To: DPFT-L@listserv.tamu.edu
Sent: 28 Jun 04, 5:17 PM
Subject: Re: British Biotech Firm Encouraged by Addiction Vaccine Results
Good gosh, they knew about Ibogane before the drug war even started!  I wonder if the iboga plant is any part of the compounds in their new anti-addiction wonder drug.

I was once told that ninty-plus percent of all pharmaceuticals are derived from plants.  Then I noticed that they tend to synthesize and chemicalize and commercialize, and then criminalize the real thing and sell the imitation.  What a sweet deal, huh?
kaylee

From: Suzanne Wills
To: DPFT-L@listserv.tamu.edu
Sent: Monday, June 28, 2004 7:02 PM
Subject: British Biotech Firm Encouraged by Addiction Vaccine Results

Ecstasy?

http://www.jointogether.org/sa/news/summaries/reader/0%2C1854%2C571696%2C00.html
British Biotech Firm Encouraged by Addiction Vaccine Results
6/17/2004
The British biotechnology firm Xenova is so encouraged by research on a new vaccine for cocaine addiction that the company is now working on developing vaccines for heroin and ecstasy, the Times of London reported June 15.
<snip>

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From: Joshua Tinnin <krinklyfig@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Julian
Date: June 28, 2004 at 7:28:15 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Friday 25 June 2004 06:09 am, CallieMimosa@aol.com
CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 6/25/2004 7:08:42 AM Central Daylight Time,
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

Callie,  WHY oh WHY would you have to feel you need be “honest” with
your clinic  over the pot use?

Preston, I guess because it has been pounded into my brain that  I
need to be totally abstinent to be working towards recovery!
Really, now that I think of it, it should not matter what  ‘other’
people say as long as I feel comfortable with my life and usage. I
know  I sure enjoyed the couple of joints a friend turned me on to a
couple of weeks  ago! Maybe I should be grateful I have a free pass
as far as my  urine screens go! lol! I will keep the refills up to
date on my  Protonix!

I don’t think that the complete abstinence concept works for everyone. I
quit drinking years ago, but I still smoke pot. I don’t go to AA, but
then again, I don’t have any desire to drink anymore. So, being in a
room full of people who are struggling to keep off booze when I’m not
isn’t very productive, and I honestly get tired of hearing about other
people’s drunk stories. AA will tell you that you can’t do anything,
not just alcohol, and that you shouldn’t be around other people who
drink. There was a time when this was good advice for me, as I would
get high any way possible, but this isn’t true anymore. If I can’t get
weed or if I can, it doesn’t make me want to reach for anything else,
no big deal either way. Pot can be counterproductive with some people
and at certain times for many people, but the only real negative for me
anymore is that it’s not legal.

– jt

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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] entheogens or psychedelics
Date: June 28, 2004 at 6:53:21 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

A person who is depressed about not having enough freedom ,but also
A person who is seeking a world of love, kindness , peace, social justice, ecological sanity and generosity.
And also a person who like to think of himself as a dippy hippy.

S.

Van: CallieMimosa@aol.com [mailto:CallieMimosa@aol.com] 
Verzonden: maandag 28 juni 2004 23:11
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [ibogaine] entheogens or psychedelics

what is a dippy hippy anyway?

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] (WAY OT) Re: [ibogaine] entheogens or psychedelics
Date: June 28, 2004 at 6:47:54 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

the opposite of hippy dippy?
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, June 28, 2004 5:11 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] entheogens or psychedelics

what is a dippy hippy anyway?

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] entheogens or psychedelics
Date: June 28, 2004 at 5:11:07 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

what is a dippy hippy anyway?

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] entheogens or psychedelics
Date: June 28, 2004 at 4:48:54 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I forget who wrote > My best guess is that the people who use the word
entheogens are mostly the dippy hippie crowd<

But I don’t know about this. I think maybe it’s people who are more widely
read who would be more apt to use the word “entheogens” and not because they
are “dippy hippies” crowd, at least not necessarily.
I could be totally wrong too, but I’m inclinded to think of it this way
instead of  solely the hippy dippy enthoegen route.
I use both at any given time for no particular reason. I prefer peaceful
solutions and smoke pot, but don’t really consider myself hippy nor dippy.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “D H” <dave@phantom.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2004 7:10 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] entheogens or psychedelics

On Sunday, June 27, 2004, at 10:28 AM, Vector Vector wrote:

My best guess is that the people who use the word entheogens are mostly
the dippy hippie crowd

hmmm… most “hippy drippy” folks I know don’t even really know what
entheogens are, but mention “psychedelics” and their eyes light up,
their dread locks start to levitate and their grateful Dead t-shirts
start to animate.

_.dh

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] (OT) Re: [ibogaine] teleportation of information
Date: June 28, 2004 at 4:19:51 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Your letter about the atoms sounds alot like the beginning of
teleportation. Is this what the end goal would be? Basically it seems that
is how you would have to apply it.<

Star Trek here we come!
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, June 26, 2004 6:56 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] teleportation of information

Hi Preston. Your letter about the atoms sounds alot like the beginning of
teleportation. Is this what the end goal would be? Basically it seems that
is how you would have to apply it. Transfer data re: one atom to another.
Thanks for the info.

Julian

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From: Nik <goosebumpz2002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] buprenorphine
Date: June 28, 2004 at 3:08:01 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I know from experience that  you HAVE to wait till you start going through methadone withdrawl and i dont mean a runny nose i mean withdrawl!  if you wait two days or about 36 hours to 48 hours there will be NO narcan like effects cuz yes if you wait  buprenorphine does make you go through withdrawl but the amazing thing is you cant feel it if you wait the alloted time you go through withdrawl wile feeling no pain i think it is pretty sweat but methadonewithdrawl lasts acute that is 10 to 14 days so you cant stop taking the bupe.  i am not some bullshitter or some salesman for bupe but fuck man the shit works email me if you want to here more and it is perfect for heroin withdrawl which lasts maybe 4 days when i was in rehab 75% of the people were there were for heroin or opiates and not one not one single mother fucker that did the bupe actually suboxone said it was anything less than a miracle drug but thats also scary taking the withdrawl out of heroin addiction we all thought that it will create more junkies cuz you take the withdrawl out of heroin addiction and you got a new beast!   peace out love to all TURTLE

Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi Nowwarat,

Just curious, how long did it last?  A girl wrote a story about how she was hurt and
went to the hospital and didn’t want to tell them she was on Met about 100 mg.
They gave her Standol and about 20 min later she went through hell.  Things came
out of every hole she had,  made a big mess.  Finally,  twos hour or so hours later
some doc came and did a riltration and got her back to normal.  But she was soaked with sweat and been through hell.  So if your taking met or even codine or such I would mention it.  I sure don’t want to go through that.  Strange in a way because hospitals
usually like to use Demerol which isn’t bad, a bit rough on the veins but not bad.

What happens is the two drugs fight to stay on the mu receptors and the bupe or
Standol acts like Narcan (the stuff they give you should you OD).

Nowwarat@aol.com wrote:
As I mentioned previously I was taking 110 mg. daily of meth and tried buprenorphine (temgesic) about 5mg. and I went into acute opiate withdrawal. It was one of the worst experiences of my life which includes having a month in a burn unit,a couple of dozen cops destroying my house,bilateral hip-replacements etc. That buprenorphine induced withdrawal was right up there.

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – You care about security. So do we.

Do you Yahoo!?
Read only the mail you want – Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.

From: “Steven Anker” <stevenanker@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] entheogens or psychedelics
Date: June 28, 2004 at 1:04:42 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I guess psychedelic is something everyone knows exactly what you are talking about, tells it like it is and makes no excuses. Entheogen seems too fancy for me and is confusing. I noticed that people at burning man were talking about and taking entheogens. It didn’t seem any different to me than a rave with kids munching any old thing to fuck them up.  “Dude, wanna candy-flip?” is more amusing and honest.

For some reason I suspect Hunter S. Thompson uses psychedelics, not entheogens. He likes to take the shit and hit the street. Was Ram Dass taking psychedelics or entheogens? Does it matter?

For some people, myself included, these are sacred molecules. For others, no. Sometimes I’ve taken them for purely recreational reasons, other times spiritual.  If I take them for recreation should the substance have a different name? Is tripping with friends on couch talking about the world less an important experience than eating peyote with self-righteous hippies pretending to be Native-American’s in a teepee? If I take ibogaine in a clinic to kick dope should it be called something different than if I take iboga with the Bwiti? What if I take them for recreation and have a deeply spiritual experience? Does that mean I took a psychedelic and it turned into entheogen? Are entheogens “of the Earth and used in shamanic setting?” Are psychedelics man-made? LSD vs. psilocybin? What about dmt? Iboga vs. ibogaine? Psychedelic covers them all, and I like that.

Sashsa Shuglin likes the term psychedelic, so there.

It is a little silly, I just like to stir shit up. Language is important.

_________________________________________________________________
MSN 9 Dial-up Internet Access fights spam and pop-ups – now 3 months FREE! http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/

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From: “jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] entheogens or psychedelics
Date: June 27, 2004 at 11:33:37 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

On Sunday, June 27, 2004, at 10:28 AM, Vector Vector wrote:

My best guess is that the people who use the word entheogens are mostly
the dippy hippie crowd

hmmm… most “hippy drippy” folks I know don’t even really know what
entheogens are, but mention “psychedelics” and their eyes light up,
their dread locks start to levitate and their grateful Dead t-shirts
start to animate.

“entheogen” is usually used by anthropogists, or others looking at drug
use from a cultural perspective…

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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] entheogens or psychedelics
Date: June 27, 2004 at 7:10:14 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Sunday, June 27, 2004, at 10:28 AM, Vector Vector wrote:

My best guess is that the people who use the word entheogens are mostly
the dippy hippie crowd

hmmm… most “hippy drippy” folks I know don’t even really know what entheogens are, but mention “psychedelics” and their eyes light up, their dread locks start to levitate and their grateful Dead t-shirts start to animate.

_.dh

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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] entheogens or psychedelics
Date: June 27, 2004 at 4:28:26 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I think they started using psychedelics instead of hallucinegens to try
to make it more clear that they werent only hallucinations.
Psychedelics got a bad rap so they started called them entheogens to
try to make it more obvious that those types of drugs do something
else.

I’ve noticed a lot of people who get upset if you call them
psychedelics instead of entheogens. The only place I’ve ever seen
anyone reverse that and get upset if you call psychedelics entheogens
is on this list. You’d have to ask Steve Anker why 😉

My best guess is that the people who use the word entheogens are mostly
the dippy hippie crowd and this list is a weird combination support
group, dumping ground for venting, non 12 step meeting, Bill Wilson on
acid discussion list with religious overtones and people talking about
methadone and crack in the same thread someone else is using to relate
their spiritual insite. I think maybe it means that here is dippy
hippie friendly  but not over run by them.

.:vector:.

— “John St. James” <swordinstone2003@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
I admit my curiosity is peaked. What exactly is the
problem some people on this list have with using the
word ‘entheogen’ ? Is there some big difference to you
between that and psychedelics?

Merely curious and wanting to be clued.

J

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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] YOU ALL……
Date: June 27, 2004 at 4:19:01 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This was posted before I think. I’ve had some for 2 years. Have to get
more now that you’ve reminded me.

Patrick all of you really do have some problems with reality. I’ve
asked at least 30 times for email @mindvox or @phantom, I’ve offered to
pay for it. You have it running but the only accounts are given out to
your friends. You print up hi-res hi-quality stickers which have to
cost at least a dollar to print and then send out 50 of them to anyone
who wants them for free.

Why don’t any of you ever re open the whole system with the interface
which you had working and online over a year ago with all this effort
in making a interface for it and then you took it all offline.

.:vector:.

http://www.mindvox.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/MindVoxUI.woa/wa/staticpage%3fpagename=Home/NewsVox.html

MindVox Alpha / [Voices 2002] Hell Frozen Over: 0.3

The current version has various features which are not turned on. In
particular the mail system is offline. It’s a feature; yes we know it
doesn’t work. See there’s a little, teeny, tiny problem: in the past
coupla months some of youz have mailed things and stuff, all over the
whole entire planet. Since MindVox.app used to take the userID from
whomever started it in shell, this means that a few thousand pieces of
crazy mail all bounced outta here with Bruce or myself listed as the
source.

Naturally this resulted in a nice pile of hate mail. Most of which is
taken care of by hitting delete — although some of it will make it
into the Fully Fucking Psychotic, Incoherent Hall of Fame. However, the
current version of Voices has email subscriptions working, so you have
the option of using the interface or subscribing to Conferences,
Forums, or Topics, and just having them mailed to you for reading in
whatever mail client you prefer to use.

Basically, we need to make sure that everything is REALLY working and
somebody doesn’t accidentally — or on purpose — wind up sending
500,000 messages in the Bandwidth Forum to 40 of their closest friends.
This would be, uhm, sorta bad or sumthing.

Look, obviously you Just Don’t Understand. It’s not spam, we’re not
smart enough to sell anything; it is the single greatest collection of
wisdom, philosophical insights, and spiritual truths ever gathered
together in one place. And you’re getting it all For Free. So… Shut
the Fuck Up and Be Grateful. It’s not like you were using that Hotmail
account for anything useful anyway.

Anywaze, Alpha is nearly in Beta. Fuck yeah mahn…

-=/[ MindVox Chaos Logo Stickers ]/=-

MindVox stickers are currently available. We’ve had a larger run
printed this time, so if YOU want a couple, this is whatcha need to do:

Send a [S]elf [A]ddressed [S]tamped [E]nvelope
(Large enough to hold 4.25″ X 4.25″ Stickers) to:

MindVox, Inc.
50 Lexington Ave, Suite 102
New York, NY 10010

And we’ll give you like 5 or 10.

The stickers come in two styles. They are either square or die-cut
round.

They’re the MindVox Chaos Logo, ‘cept taken from a much higher
resolution version of THIS image.

DO NOT:

Send us cash, checks, money orders.

Send us phone numbers, requests for FEDEX, or a List of Special
Requirements.

Throw loose stamps into the envelope.

Basically we are not willing to do anything except throw some of ’em
into an envelope, have Drew Ross add one of his bodily fluids to that
sticky crap on it, and toss it into a mailbox. If you fuck up the
postage, oh well. If you send it to some random name, oh well. If you
send us stamps from other countries, which the U.S. post office does
not like, oh well, bummer mahn.

If you absolutely, positively, without a doubt MUST HAVE 30 or 35 of
them because you have OCD and need to plaster them all over the whole
entire everything; well, okay then. Just enclose a heartfelt, really
convincing letter that Explains your Needs. Nobody will ever read it,
but the extra effort will result in More Stickers.

Please note: saving the logos and waiting for all of us to get killed,
OD, or vanish without a trace, and then selling them on Ebay; results
in extremely negative karma mahn.

To send Death Threats, Incoherent Ranting, or Gushing Idolatry

accounts@mindvox.com

If you have any questions, or experience problems: do not hesitate to
call your dealer, rent a shrink, or go buy a gun.

-=/[ The People Impersonating MindVox Management ]/=-

— Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi Callie 🙂 Where did you get the MindVox
stickers??? What are they the pretty chaos logo?

Thanks!

Carla B

— CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
To ALL on the Ibogaine  list……………….

YOU ALL  ROCK!!!!!!

Thanks so much for all your feedback and for taking
the time to  read my
contributions, which have been selfish the past
couple of  days!
I really believe divine intervention helped me to
find this  list!
Callie

Oh, Meant to tell you earlier this week….I sent a
SASE for a  couple of
MindVox stickers and received a shit load back! I
had a yard sale last  weekend
and had the stickers on the money table. Had a lot
of folks admire them  and
ask what MindVox was. I did my best to explain it
and encouraged them to  visit.
Everyone was really digging on the sticker and had
quite a few ask if  they
could have one! So, your hits may be slightly higher
due to my PR work!  lol!

__________________________________
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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Jason
Date: June 27, 2004 at 2:46:29 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Preston,

I really like your idea about some of having some slot in the brain that needs to be “fixed” by some drug or other.  Callie: I never shoplifted until I was using crack and heroin for a long time, so I guess I really don’t have the shoplifting gene.

sean

From: “John St. James” <swordinstone2003@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: [ibogaine] entheogens or psychedelics
Date: June 27, 2004 at 3:21:06 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I admit my curiosity is peaked. What exactly is the
problem some people on this list have with using the
word ‘entheogen’ ? Is there some big difference to you
between that and psychedelics?

Merely curious and wanting to be clued.

J

___________________________________________________________ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – sooooo many all-new ways to express yourself http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

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From: “paul” <leisure1@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Non-traditional Designer
Date: June 27, 2004 at 1:54:43 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Matt, most interested to see your message pop up on this list – their aint many nzers in the group as far as I know.. . I’ve seen various publicity around your products- you’ve done well to get both the profile and then the official ok…amazing really.  I’d like to discuss things with you one to one – please send me a direct email contact and we’ll talk…I’m at:   leisure1@xtra.co.nz

Thanks

Paul  – Wgtn, NZ

—–Original Message—–
From: deartheo@ziplip.com [mailto:deartheo@ziplip.com] 
Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2004 11:52 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Non-traditional Designer

“Non-traditional Designer Substances”
A new category of psychoactives in New Zealand
by Matt Bowden
April 2004
Published by Erowid.org
Citation:   Bowden M. “Non-traditional Designer Substances: A new category
of psychoactives in New Zealand”. Erowid.org, Apr 2004:
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/bzp/bzp_info1.shtml.
—————————————————————————-

We have a problem with methamphetamine at the moment, lots of poor quality
product being smoked and injected, causing crime and public health issues
not seen previously in New Zealand. I have an organisation that started
producing a “safer legal alternative” product in New Zealand back in 1999,
utilising benzylpiperazine in a balanced formula of amino acids and
vitamins. Most phenethylamines and tryptamines are covered here by
analogue laws, but benzylpiperazine isn’t.

Our nation’s drug policy document is based on World Health Organization
and UN principles of “drug harm minimization”. In definition it refers to
low tar cigarettes and low alcohol beer as “harm minimization”. We
marketed our formula to drug users as a “lower-risk” alternative to street
crystal meth: lower addictive potential, higher grade, measured dosage, 24
hour helpline to medical personnel etc. Our “dancepill” products were
greatly enjoyed here by the thriving dance community, and it pretty soon
began generating significant revenue. We started channeling funds into
first-aid and drug counseling at dance parties. (www.angelcare.org.nz) Our
government debated the pros and cons of these products when it became
apparent that perhaps this synthetic molecule was not a valid food
additive, and people were partying. It was put before an Expert Select
Committee to decide the future.

The result was that while it was agreed that BZP dancepills should not be
a “dietary supplement”, they should not be removed from society as that
would lead to thousands of people reverting to methamphetamine. This was a
valid expression of harm minimization. Consumers were voting with their
wallets that they wanted to take pills when they party, and our industry
at least had consistency and was developing high standards of social
responsibility. Instead the committee recommended that our Health
Department create a new category of substances which would be restricted
to 18 years of age and over. They referred to the use of “non-traditional
designer substances” of lesser harm than the illicits, and the “rights” of
people to use them. I feel that this may be something of a world first, a
step away from prohibition and towards evidence-based risk management
systems, and recognition that perhaps it is not a moral or legal
transgression to alter one’s perception and state of mind after all.

We therefore have a precedent for an environment here in NZ to conduct
research into future synthetic recreational “social tonics”. The industry
is young, and I’m really interested in networking with anybody from the
international community who wants to assist us with research models or
ideas for developing and trialing new compounds. We’re looking for elders
in the field who can give us the wisdom to manage things properly so that
we can be a shining example.
From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] urine testing
Date: June 26, 2004 at 9:55:15 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ibo will not show up as anything on standard elisa urine testing. ( dip stick) . It like any known substance on the planet can be detected by GC/MS ( gas chromotograpy/mass spec and others but the tester would need ibo as a standard to test against . Only a few people in the country can do this.

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] teleportation of information
Date: June 26, 2004 at 6:56:13 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Preston. Your letter about the atoms sounds alot like the beginning of teleportation. Is this what the end goal would be? Basically it seems that is how you would have to apply it. Transfer data re: one atom to another. Thanks for the info.
Julian

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Detox or Die videos available
Date: June 26, 2004 at 4:33:29 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dana, you sure 10 bucks will cover it? Hell, shipping is about a buck seventy five alone.
Callie

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] teleportation of information
Date: June 26, 2004 at 4:11:31 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 6/26/2004 10:59:58 AM Central Daylight Time, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:
To do it, physicists first had to “entangle” two atoms, a phenomenon where a
disturbance to one particle instantly affects the other, no matter how far
away it is. Albert Einstein described it as a “spooky interaction.”

This is so far above my head it is not funny! Very interesting though! Is this kind of like “Beam me up Scotty” except in a microscopic size?
Callie

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Detox or Die videos available
Date: June 26, 2004 at 3:17:49 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

VHS BBC 1 “Detox or Die” videos now available for U.S. viewing!

$10 covers duplication + shipping .

A little more outside the U.S.–but remember these are U.S. television format.

Send a check or just a Hamilton.

Payable to: Cures not Wars
9 Bleecker St.
New York, New York 10012

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From: Maryditton@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine vs acid or mesc.
Date: June 26, 2004 at 2:44:32 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear DH,

Thanks for the detailed description of your 3 experiences.  Were you in a clinic or self administering?

Mary

From: “Steven Anker” <stevenanker@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]
Date: June 26, 2004 at 1:42:08 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Also, can anyone tell me if you go to Mexico if you can just walk in a drug store and buy it?
No.

I know you can buy things like Valium and antibotics and stuff like that w/o a script.
Big myth. You need a script for valium. It may be easier to get a script, but you still need one.

I just wonderded if you could do the same with the Ibogaine and if so about how much?
Not for sale at the local Mexican drugstore. You can have sent to a Mexican address, even then you could have trouble. Custom agents the world over have eyes open for strange powders being mailed.

_________________________________________________________________
MSN 9 Dial-up Internet Access fights spam and pop-ups – now 3 months FREE! http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/

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From: <deartheo@ziplip.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] ibogaine vs acid or mesc.
Date: June 26, 2004 at 12:44:05 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“(only pussies use the term
entheogen)
I’ve been around the block with psychedelics”

Too easy of a target.  I’m sure you’ve seen it all.

—–Original Message—–
From: Iboga_planteur [mailto:iboga_planteur@yahoo.fr]
Sent: Saturday, June 26, 2004, 6:34 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] ibogaine vs acid or mesc.

GOOD WORDS STEVEN!

you know who!

—–Message d’origine—–
De : Steven Anker [mailto:stevenanker@hotmail.com]
Envoyé : samedi 26 juin 2004 06:42
À : ibogaine@mindvox.com
Objet : RE: [ibogaine] ibogaine vs acid or mesc.

Nowwarat,

Dude, X is tripping with training wheels. Big whoop. Why in the world would
you want to love strangers and hug them?

I’ve been around the block with psychedelics (only pussies use the term
entheogen) and thought I would be ready for whatever ibo threw my way. NO!
It is different than all the others, nothing else like it.

If you are thinking about doing it, JUST DO IT! I think that if you read up
too much and have all these high expectations you are bound to be
dissapointed. You controll the trip, work with it. This is powerful
medicine. The psychedellic effects are not what get you off the dark master
and can be all over the place and %20 of the time none at all.  If you
happen to kick, send a thank you Howard’s way.

Ibogaine: god’s way of saying shut-up bitch, you’re mine!

Happy trails,
Steve

_________________________________________________________________
From ‘will you?’ to ‘I do,’ MSN Life Events is your resource for Getting
Married. http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=married

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] teleportation of information
Date: June 26, 2004 at 11:59:33 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

HI all,
I thought this was pretty trippy so I’ve excerpted and posted it.
Peace,
Preston

http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2004/06/16/sci-tech/teleport040616

Scientists teleport information between atoms
Last Updated Thu, 17 Jun 2004 14:34:56
LONDON – Two groups of physicists have teleported physical properties
between atoms without using a physical link, a discovery they say could help
develop ultrafast quantum computing technology.

The teleportation was on a subatomic scale in the lab.
The Austrian and American researchers were able to transfer the physical
properties of an atom, such as its energy and spin.
Until now, scientists had only been able to do this with laser beams.
To do it, physicists first had to “entangle” two atoms, a phenomenon where a
disturbance to one particle instantly affects the other, no matter how far
away it is. Albert Einstein described it as a “spooky interaction.”
snip-

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From: “Iboga_planteur” <iboga_planteur@yahoo.fr>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] ibogaine vs acid or mesc.
Date: June 26, 2004 at 9:40:56 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

GOOD WORDS STEVEN!

you know who!

—–Message d’origine—–
De : Steven Anker [mailto:stevenanker@hotmail.com]
Envoyé : samedi 26 juin 2004 06:42
À : ibogaine@mindvox.com
Objet : RE: [ibogaine] ibogaine vs acid or mesc.

Nowwarat,

Dude, X is tripping with training wheels. Big whoop. Why in the world would
you want to love strangers and hug them?

I’ve been around the block with psychedelics (only pussies use the term
entheogen) and thought I would be ready for whatever ibo threw my way. NO!
It is different than all the others, nothing else like it.

If you are thinking about doing it, JUST DO IT! I think that if you read up
too much and have all these high expectations you are bound to be
dissapointed. You controll the trip, work with it. This is powerful
medicine. The psychedellic effects are not what get you off the dark master
and can be all over the place and %20 of the time none at all.  If you
happen to kick, send a thank you Howard’s way.

Ibogaine: god’s way of saying shut-up bitch, you’re mine!

Happy trails,
Steve

_________________________________________________________________
From ‘will you?’ to ‘I do,’ MSN Life Events is your resource for Getting
Married. http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=married

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine vs acid or mesc.
Date: June 26, 2004 at 9:30:44 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dude, X is tripping with training wheels. Big whoop. Why in the world would
you want to love strangers and hug them?<

Cause it’s fun not being hateful and distrusting all the time perhaps?
;-))
Oh my goodness, hate to tell youSteven A, but if the X I’ve done over the
years was OFTEN any indication, you haven’t been doing the same quality X
that I was at times. Training wheels? LOL! That said, I have another
acquaintence who suggests that X is a plot to make us all loose our ability
to be distrustful.

If you are thinking about doing it, JUST DO IT! I think that if you read up
too much and have all these high expectations you are bound to be
dissapointed. You controll the trip, work with it. This is powerful
medicine. The psychedellic effects are not what get you off the dark master
and can be all over the place and %20 of the time none at all.  If you
happen to kick, send a thank you Howard’s way.<

Thanks for this particular note Steven, as I’ve been going through this
“holy shit, am I really going to be able to try this stuff? Settle down
butterflies in my stomache! Do I really WANT to?” thing the last couple of
days. But this is my fear (and a variety of behavioral patterns too I
suspect) speaking, I know this.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Steven Anker” <stevenanker@hotmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 26, 2004 12:41 AM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] ibogaine vs acid or mesc.

Nowwarat,

Dude, X is tripping with training wheels. Big whoop. Why in the world
would
you want to love strangers and hug them?

I’ve been around the block with psychedelics (only pussies use the term
entheogen) and thought I would be ready for whatever ibo threw my way. NO!
It is different than all the others, nothing else like it.

If you are thinking about doing it, JUST DO IT! I think that if you read
up
too much and have all these high expectations you are bound to be
dissapointed. You controll the trip, work with it. This is powerful
medicine. The psychedellic effects are not what get you off the dark
master
and can be all over the place and %20 of the time none at all.  If you
happen to kick, send a thank you Howard’s way.

Ibogaine: god’s way of saying shut-up bitch, you’re mine!

Happy trails,
Steve

_________________________________________________________________
From ‘will you?’ to ‘I do,’ MSN Life Events is your resource for Getting
Married. http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=married

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] thoughts at my grandmother’s funeral
Date: June 26, 2004 at 7:35:11 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi All,

Yes, I can go along with Sapphirestardus.  Many (about 15) years ago I was at a
met clinic.  I was honest and told them I had a problem.  I would sometimes shoot
up the met, I need help what should I do.  Let’s say they were not very nice to me
and I was never honest with them again.  They could of put the met in a full bottle
and no one will shoot up two ounces.  I though to my self about being honest and
they can help ya etc.  So I said to them Hey, I am honest and you treat me like this!

From then on I carried a bottle of water with a little coffee for coloring and two or
three drops of met for a urine, kept my mouth shut and had no problems.  See, I
thought you told your problems to your counselor and they were there to help ya.
Oh well, live and learn.  I admit I shouldn’t of done it, no doubt.  But I had no self
control, I came in with over $120 plus a day habit.  I felt that I was stabbed in the
back by the one who I was suppose to trust with my inner most thoughts.  Maybe
it’s just me, but that’s the way I felt.  Whatever.  I remember my counselor saying:
“You can always jusk kick it, you’ll get sick but your not gonna die.”
True, I could get shot and burned over half my body and not die but it really don’t
sound like something I would like to try.  See, they really don’t know what w/d is
like.  She was a rehabilitied alcoholic.  FYI, from what a guy tells me you can’t
use water as a substitute for a urine that they can tell the difference.
– JIM
Sapphirestardus@aol.com wrote:
No doubt Sean, treatment essentially is punishment. It’s funny how methadone clinics deal with people as though they are children as well as scum of the earth and yet they do not see the connection between their perception of us and the way many of us behave. For instance, clinics impose rules and procedures (like strict take outs and urines) because they claim we will falsify and lie. Many do but what they don’t understand is people feel compelled to behave this way to avoid the ‘punishments’ imposed on us for doing what we came to the program for! If you make me come everyday to my medicine it is a punishment, plain and simple. It would be no different if someone needed pain medication but the drug store tells them they can only supply them with one day’s worth, since it is a controlled substance…..

Let’s face it, once you arrive at once a week or twice a week, you are never going to want to lose that schedule. If you slip and get high, you have no incentive to be honest about your getting high and deal with it because you are more concerned with avoiding the punishment of coming everyday.

Have a real good day man,
Julian

Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – 100MB free storage!

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: June 26, 2004 at 7:25:33 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I can not tell you how appreciative I am for the data provided by 10000 doses. Of course if there is more that even better but my question has been answered. One thing I have learned regarding all things in life but especially ‘drugs’ and more specifically methadone is aleays do your own research and if you do ask someone for info, make sure they are ‘qualified’ to answer. Howard, thank you and thank 10000 doses.
Speak to you soon,
Julian

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Jason
Date: June 26, 2004 at 7:12:45 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I can’t believe you mention this. Up until maybe a year ago, I was obsessed with stealing shit. I never needed what I stole and many times didn’t even want what I took. BUT, I had to walk away from somewhere with something that was ‘theirs’ and make it mine. For me, the incentive to steal was about control and power. I never felt in control nor powerful, yet all my ‘self-destructive’ behavior was in MY CONTROL. It seemed that was the only time I felt empowered. I don’t remember the exavt age it started, but I was very young.

Julian

From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]
Date: June 26, 2004 at 7:08:49 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Nik,

Are you going to try the Ibogaine at some treatment center in Canada or Mexico
or maybe home, if you don’t mind me asking.  And if you will use it at home how
much does it cost from the supplier, just a rough estimate.  Also, can anyone tell
me if you go to Mexico if you can just walk in a drug store and buy it?  I know you can
buy things like Valium and antibotics and stuff like that w/o a script.  I just
wonderded if you could do the dame with the Ibogaine and if so about how much?

If anyone has some info on this it would be greatly appreciated.  Also, for you guys
out there who took Subutex could you tell me about how much an 8 mg pill cost at
the drugstore.  I doubt if the government will cover it and if it is a $10 pill I’ll have to
do some thinking.  I just got the feeling it is not cheap.

Thanks you all,

– JIM

Nik <goosebumpz2002@yahoo.com> wrote:
Buprenorphine works it is amazing there is  only a mild detox from that its equal to maybe a vicodan a day but it relieves  ALL i mean ALL withdrawl but the problem you are facing is that met withdrawl takes about 21 days so be prepared  i have been off methadone for 95 days  and i am still fatigued but clean and feel really good when i wake up its a miracle you are probably scared and filled with doubt but i did it and i was at 120mgs for 2 and a half ye3ars  i detoxed down a mg a day down to 75 and i swear on my grandmothers grave 8mg of suboxone took all withdrawl away untill they cut me off of that then the met withdrawl came back but i got through the worst of it now i am working on a ibogaine treatmernt good luck even though theres no luck involved i know you can do it   Love peace and tranquillity!   Me

“Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com> wrote:
Hey, the voice of experience here!!  I have that kind of pain for which I have had two epidurals, two facet blocks, MRI’s, Xrays, cat
scans, etc., etc., etc.  I have more docs following my problems than you can ever imagine!!  Even prolotherapy.  For pain, I am
taking the lowly Ultram.  The MRI indicates that the two lower vertebrae are out of alignment and I have a BAD right hip.  I am
the BiscuitBoy714’s mom.  He very sweetly would give me some of his stuff if it would help.  The pain (for me) that radiates down
the right leg – to the bottom of the foot is caused by inflamation of the sciatic nerve.  Everything the docs have tried have helped
somewhat.  I would suggest that you get an MRI if you can because it is very descriptive and helps the docs decide what your
problem is and, therefore, what they could do to help you out.  My 2Cent’sWorth.

Good Luck

ann
think@francomm.com

—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2004 9:24 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe

In a message dated 6/22/2004 3:54:42 PM Central Daylight Time, jimhadey3@yahoo.com writes:
I doubt it since my back pain which is why I am on disability, some days I limp and the pain goes from my lower back down the butt, leg and out the foot.  Other times it radiates upwards and goes into spasm.

I would wager my next two paychecks that you have a herniated or bulging disc pinching a nerve in your lumbar area. Have you had a MRI, x-rays or maybe a CAT scan?
Your description is very classic of pinched nerve which can be treated in physical therapy or as last resort, surgery.

BTW, I could get down to 20 mg of met but no matter how slowly I tried to go below 20 mg w/d would start.

I have heard this a lot from some of my friends too. Personally, I have not been that low.
What worked for them is very slow tapering….maybe 1 mg every two weeks. You might have to even go slower than that.
Will your clinic let you have enough control of your detox that you can say you need to stop for a while until comfort level goes up?
This disease is a BITCH isn’t it?

He thinks I am bipolar and like I said I have tried all the antidepressants and some like Depakoat and Effexor make me hallucinate – bad ones along with bad dreams.

If you are bipolar (manic depressive) you need to be on Lithium. All the antidepressants in the world will not help someone with manic depression. Your body has low lithium levels if you are bipolar/manic depressive.
Do you have a mental health worker or psychiatrist?
If so, I encourage you to let them manage your mental health issues. If they could communicate well with your physician now that would be ideal and would help you all! It would free your Doctor up where he could concentrate on your addiction, Hep C, etc., etc.

Also, back to your back….if you haven’t had a MRI, ask for one. Your back pain is not going to go away until the cause, which I feel is pinched nerve, is treated.

Look forward to hearing what you decide.
Peace, Callie
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From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] meth for pain
Date: June 26, 2004 at 7:07:23 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Nowwarat. I was on Beth Israel at Lenox Hill Hosp for 17 years until they closed it. They put me on 23st., but I eventually moved to Nassau County to be near my daughters so I switched to them. (it’s at NUMC-East Meadow).Anyway you are correct about programs being more flexible about the “Maintenance” program. Once a month plus you can go for once every two weeks first which is what NUMC does before they give you the once a month deal. Of course they don’t push it. They complain about the cost of running programs and yet they still make people come as often as possible which costs more money. I write for a newsletter based in Detroit which is about Methadone and everything related to it. I was shocked to discover how much the laws had changed (becoming more liberal) and yet nobody I knew was aware of these changes. I only knew of them due to the newsletters. If you want anything from a clinic you definitely have to push for it since they will not apprise you of the changes.
Keep in touch man,
Julian

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Julian
Date: June 26, 2004 at 6:58:37 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Good Morning Jason.
I agree with you 100% about detoxing on your own. I do not take the dose prescribed since there are days I need more than what’s prescribed and days I can live with less. If I wasn’t disabled, I may not be able to work on the low dose I take sometimes, but since I’m sitting or lying down virtually the entire day, I don’t need my whole dose as compared to days that I must be active and social etc.. It’s just a shame though that we have to play such games with our medicine and well being.
Have a great weekend,
Julian

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Julian
Date: June 26, 2004 at 6:46:27 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

It was nice to hear from you Callie. At this point I’m about 95% honest. If I’m having a real problem with a drug, I have always been up front about it basically because I went on meth to get my shit together. If I get high on something and it is a one time situation, I would never tell them. The thing is manu others on the program are having problems with this honesty issue and I feel bad for them. They need their schedule due to working and to go everyday would pose a problem for them. I gotta tell you though it is difficult being honest knowing the consequences. I just feel that in many cases, if you remove the ‘punishment’, you should remove the deceipt.

Have a nice one Callie,
Julian

From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] buprenorphine
Date: June 26, 2004 at 6:42:02 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Nowwarat,

Just curious, how long did it last?  A girl wrote a story about how she was hurt and
went to the hospital and didn’t want to tell them she was on Met about 100 mg.
They gave her Standol and about 20 min later she went through hell.  Things came
out of every hole she had,  made a big mess.  Finally,  twos hour or so hours later
some doc came and did a riltration and got her back to normal.  But she was soaked with sweat and been through hell.  So if your taking met or even codine or such I would mention it.  I sure don’t want to go through that.  Strange in a way because hospitals
usually like to use Demerol which isn’t bad, a bit rough on the veins but not bad.

What happens is the two drugs fight to stay on the mu receptors and the bupe or
Standol acts like Narcan (the stuff they give you should you OD).

Nowwarat@aol.com wrote:
As I mentioned previously I was taking 110 mg. daily of meth and tried buprenorphine (temgesic) about 5mg. and I went into acute opiate withdrawal. It was one of the worst experiences of my life which includes having a month in a burn unit,a couple of dozen cops destroying my house,bilateral hip-replacements etc. That buprenorphine induced withdrawal was right up there.

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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine vs acid or mesc.
Date: June 26, 2004 at 2:46:05 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Friday, June 25, 2004, at 12:50 PM, Nowwarat@aol.com wrote:

Unfortunately I haven’t done X as I was born too early but from what I’ve read it sounds like the way I’d want my brain to be permanently rewired. As a child of the 60’s I took acid and mescaline many times.

How does the Ibogaine experience compare to the above? Acid can make you aware of timelessness, that the Universe is alive, and that your brain is the repository of  genius imagination and intelligence. But ibogaine sounds like a psychedelic experience that also has a physiological effect on opiate addiction on a cellular level. But then I hear it’s also operating on an emotional level.

Ibogaine is in a class all its own. It is ancient, sacred and a most healing medicine. It is incomparable to “X”. There is no ego overcoming/stumbling block issues like LSD. It is (IMHO) a direct channel to the divine. Visuals and aurals are connected directly to and/or generated from the supreme being (or for those of you who can’t dig that, then your higher-self). There is a plant spirit or entity that seems to be the liason or connecting channel. It is highly interactive: ask a question and ye shall be answered, often in a combination of visuals and Dolby THX surround-sounds. But don’t be surprised if the answer is a riddle that takes time to unravel. Such is the nature of Iboga… He/She/It has a tremendous sense of humor, fathomless compassion and a habit of being very direct, sometimes mercilessly so.

It is anything but recreational (someone mentioned CSI having people addicted to it in the mini-series? -Ridiculous!). a healthy dose of LSD or Ecstacy and a night on the beach or at your favorite concert is do-able. A healthy dose of Ibogaine and most likely you will be stuck like a magnet to your bed, pondering for many long minutes the galactic implications of moving your pinky finger. The dimmest of lights seem like blazing spotlights and sounds are amplified 10+ fold. Of course there is the buzzing too… The Iboga Bees doing their magic. Astral Travel is often part of the experience, or at least the release of your astral body from the confines of your physical self. Each time I’ve done Ibogaine (3X) I’ve felt the separation of my astral body happen. For me, it’s pretty much the first main sensation in the first hour. It can be quite unnerving if you struggle with it, and immensely freeing when you let go to it. Then come the visions. usually. I’ve had the fortune of having very visual doses everytime, from 400mg to 1500mg, -equally potent- and lasting in duration in correlation to dose amount. Count on not sleeping for the first 24-36 hours (although I’ve heard reports to the contrary, people falling asleep in the first 12 hours).

There is a pattern and sequence to Ibogaine that I’ve not experienced with any other “psychedelic”. I wouldn’t call Ibogaine predictable as far as what you experience personally, but the stages are generally the same: 1 Visons, 2 Questions & Answers and 3 Reflections & Integration.

My experience is that Ibogaine is highly exhausting, even at the low dose of 400mgs. By the end of the experience you will not likely look forward to doing it again the next day/weekend/month, unless you are in a situation that calls for that. A few days of re-integration is highly encouraged, with no stress situations like work, court dates or such.

Ibogaine… For those of us who need the extra encouragement; the re-introduction of our spiritual nature.

-DH

From: “Greg Douglass” <gregdouglass@covad.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine vs acid or mesc.
Date: June 26, 2004 at 2:21:24 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I took X years ago, just after it was first invented, and while it was great
fun for playing music and the occasional sexual encounter, it’s a party
drug, pure and simple. Kid stuff. Ibogaine, on the other hand,  is an
encounter with an entity who will teach you much about yourself and the
world around you if you pay attention (not that you have much choice when
Iboga enters the picture!) I have never been a fan of psychedelics…at
all…but my successful encounter with ibogaine changed my mind
(literally….)
Greg
PS-Hey Steve…Jesus!!! “Tripping with training wheels?” Can I steal that?
Can I call my new band by that name? —– Original Message —–
From: “Steven Anker” <stevenanker@hotmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, June 25, 2004 9:41 PM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] ibogaine vs acid or mesc.

Nowwarat,

Dude, X is tripping with training wheels. Big whoop. Why in the world
would
you want to love strangers and hug them?

I’ve been around the block with psychedelics (only pussies use the term
entheogen) and thought I would be ready for whatever ibo threw my way. NO!
It is different than all the others, nothing else like it.

If you are thinking about doing it, JUST DO IT! I think that if you read
up
too much and have all these high expectations you are bound to be
dissapointed. You controll the trip, work with it. This is powerful
medicine. The psychedellic effects are not what get you off the dark
master
and can be all over the place and %20 of the time none at all.  If you
happen to kick, send a thank you Howard’s way.

Ibogaine: god’s way of saying shut-up bitch, you’re mine!

Happy trails,
Steve

_________________________________________________________________
From ‘will you?’ to ‘I do,’ MSN Life Events is your resource for Getting
Married. http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=married

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From: Nowwarat@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] tripping with training wheels
Date: June 26, 2004 at 1:31:05 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thant phrase made me smile.Tripping with training wheels!

For lightwieghts huh?

I don’t know anyone I can score either from. These days my hands are full with helping out my younger wife with our little ones. But that doesn’t mean I can’t hope. I’ve seen some strange shit in my day.

My wife is Thai. Perhaps next time were are over there I will run into it. All kinds of things are in Bangkok.

From: “Steven Anker” <stevenanker@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] ibogaine vs acid or mesc.
Date: June 26, 2004 at 12:41:36 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Nowwarat,

Dude, X is tripping with training wheels. Big whoop. Why in the world would you want to love strangers and hug them?

I’ve been around the block with psychedelics (only pussies use the term entheogen) and thought I would be ready for whatever ibo threw my way. NO! It is different than all the others, nothing else like it.

If you are thinking about doing it, JUST DO IT! I think that if you read up too much and have all these high expectations you are bound to be dissapointed. You controll the trip, work with it. This is powerful medicine. The psychedellic effects are not what get you off the dark master and can be all over the place and %20 of the time none at all.  If you happen to kick, send a thank you Howard’s way.

Ibogaine: god’s way of saying shut-up bitch, you’re mine!

Happy trails,
Steve

_________________________________________________________________
From ‘will you?’ to ‘I do,’ MSN Life Events is your resource for Getting Married. http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=married

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From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] YOU ALL……
Date: June 26, 2004 at 12:33:16 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Callie 🙂 Where did you get the MindVox
stickers??? What are they the pretty chaos logo?

Thanks!

Carla B

— CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
To ALL on the Ibogaine  list……………….

YOU ALL  ROCK!!!!!!

Thanks so much for all your feedback and for taking
the time to  read my
contributions, which have been selfish the past
couple of  days!
I really believe divine intervention helped me to
find this  list!
Callie

Oh, Meant to tell you earlier this week….I sent a
SASE for a  couple of
MindVox stickers and received a shit load back! I
had a yard sale last  weekend
and had the stickers on the money table. Had a lot
of folks admire them  and
ask what MindVox was. I did my best to explain it
and encouraged them to  visit.
Everyone was really digging on the sticker and had
quite a few ask if  they
could have one! So, your hits may be slightly higher
due to my PR work!  lol!

__________________________________
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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] an ode
Date: June 25, 2004 at 9:40:44 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hell, you may have mentioned it but sometimes I have a difficult time comprehending and remembering what I read unless I read it several times.
When I was in Nursing school I heard that you have to read or see something 8 times before it is part of your memory that is easily remembered.
Callie

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] an ode
Date: June 25, 2004 at 9:05:54 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

no, I don’t have tats on my feet, and thought I’d mentioned that, but it
musta been another list where I did that.
I have tats, but he was just rhymin’.
;-))
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, June 25, 2004 8:35 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] an ode

You have tattoos on your feet?
This beautiful guy I seen for a while had mushrooms tattooed on the top of
his feet and I thought that was the coolest!
I am sure there are many out and about with tats on their feet but I have
only seen the one guy…….*sigh*…….he was so dreamy!
Thanks for jarring a memory!
Callie

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] YOU ALL……
Date: June 25, 2004 at 9:02:19 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

To ALL on the Ibogaine list……………….

YOU ALL ROCK!!!!!!

Thanks so much for all your feedback and for taking the time to read my contributions, which have been selfish the past couple of days!
I really believe divine intervention helped me to find this list!
Callie

Oh, Meant to tell you earlier this week….I sent a SASE for a couple of MindVox stickers and received a shit load back! I had a yard sale last weekend and had the stickers on the money table. Had a lot of folks admire them and ask what MindVox was. I did my best to explain it and encouraged them to visit. Everyone was really digging on the sticker and had quite a few ask if they could have one! So, your hits may be slightly higher due to my PR work! lol!

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] an ode
Date: June 25, 2004 at 8:35:56 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You have tattoos on your feet?
This beautiful guy I seen for a while had mushrooms tattooed on the top of his feet and I thought that was the coolest!
I am sure there are many out and about with tats on their feet but I have only seen the one guy…….*sigh*…….he was so dreamy!
Thanks for jarring a memory!
Callie

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Senate office fax is down; email instead
Date: June 25, 2004 at 8:26:13 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

lol! I expected that to happen!

From: Nowwarat@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] ibogaine vs acid or mesc.
Date: June 25, 2004 at 6:50:50 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Unfortunately I haven’t done X as I was born too early but from what I’ve read it sounds like the way I’d want my brain to be permanently rewired. As a child of the 60’s I took acid and mescaline many times.

How does the Ibogaine experience compare to the above? Acid can make you aware of timelessness, that the Universe is alive, and that your brain is the repository of  genius imagination and intelligence. But ibogaine sounds like a psychedelic experience that also has a physiological effect on opiate addiction on a cellular level. But then I hear it’s also operating on an emotional level.

Nowwarat

From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Jason
Date: June 25, 2004 at 6:43:36 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

For what its worth – I absolutely agree with Y’all on this subject.
I wish there could be some way to convince the general public of
this which would remove the stigma.  I’ve been fighting this fight
with docs and whomever from the day one.

love,
ann
think@francomm.com

Callie asks >Do you think I was born an addict and a shoplifter?
Does anyone else have very early memories of self destructive behaviors?<

Personally? Yes, and yes.
I too have had my experiences with early aged shoplifting, and early
experiences with getting off my face in various ways too.
I personally suspect that some of us are SUPPOSED to be addicts, though I
wouldn’t actually use the term “addict” to describe us.
Just as some are diabetic, some have that gene, or slot in the brain, that
is only “fixed” by some drug or other.
Peace and respect to all,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, June 25, 2004 10:42 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Jason

I am doing a blind detox but it is to be no more than 1 mg per week. It is
difficult for me to not ask what milligrams I am on. The blind detox was
per
my request. The reason I am detoxing is to experience Ibogaine in the
winter
hopefully.
I anticipate my counselor saying “Why do you sabotage yourself?”
“Everytime
you have some clean time behind you this happens.”She is right. It may not
be weed but it will be something else, benzos or drinking all my bottles
and
supplementing morphine (even though I can’t feel a thing from the
Morphine!).
Hell, it is just addict thinking and behavior! I have been doing it my
entire life.

I want to throw something else out there…..
I am a compulsive shoplifter. It is a LOT improved because I do not want
to
risk going to jail but it is still there at times.
When I was writing in my journal about shoplifting the other night I
remembered something from when I was about 6 years old. 6 is about the
earliest age I can remember well.
My Mom had us stay with a baby-sitter lady down the street while she
worked
2 or 3 days a week.
She had a daughter who was 15 or 16 I guess.
I remember waking from nap in her daughters room and seeing the jewelry
box
on the dresser. I looked through her jewelry and took a pair of earrings
and
a bracelet.
I knew it was wrong and after that I used to cry because I didn’t want to
go
back.
Nothing was ever said. I feel sure they never suspected a 6 year old would
rip them off.
My point is…..wonder why I would steal at 6? The earrings were pierced
and
I knew I couldn’t wear the bracelet for fear of someone seeing it and
asking
where I got it.
It really tormented me. I remember thinking all one night of what I would
do
if I was caught. I had decided to say I found them at school on the
playground.
Do you think I was born an addict and a shoplifter?
Does anyone else have very early memories of self destructive behaviors?
Callie

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Jason
Date: June 25, 2004 at 6:33:54 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Callie asks >Do you think I was born an addict and a shoplifter?
Does anyone else have very early memories of self destructive behaviors?<

Personally? Yes, and yes.
I too have had my experiences with early aged shoplifting, and early
experiences with getting off my face in various ways too.
I personally suspect that some of us are SUPPOSED to be addicts, though I
wouldn’t actually use the term “addict” to describe us.
Just as some are diabetic, some have that gene, or slot in the brain, that
is only “fixed” by some drug or other.
Peace and respect to all,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, June 25, 2004 10:42 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Jason

I am doing a blind detox but it is to be no more than 1 mg per week. It is
difficult for me to not ask what milligrams I am on. The blind detox was per
my request. The reason I am detoxing is to experience Ibogaine in the winter
hopefully.
I anticipate my counselor saying “Why do you sabotage yourself?” “Everytime
you have some clean time behind you this happens.”She is right. It may not
be weed but it will be something else, benzos or drinking all my bottles and
supplementing morphine (even though I can’t feel a thing from the
Morphine!).
Hell, it is just addict thinking and behavior! I have been doing it my
entire life.

I want to throw something else out there…..
I am a compulsive shoplifter. It is a LOT improved because I do not want to
risk going to jail but it is still there at times.
When I was writing in my journal about shoplifting the other night I
remembered something from when I was about 6 years old. 6 is about the
earliest age I can remember well.
My Mom had us stay with a baby-sitter lady down the street while she worked
2 or 3 days a week.
She had a daughter who was 15 or 16 I guess.
I remember waking from nap in her daughters room and seeing the jewelry box
on the dresser. I looked through her jewelry and took a pair of earrings and
a bracelet.
I knew it was wrong and after that I used to cry because I didn’t want to go
back.
Nothing was ever said. I feel sure they never suspected a 6 year old would
rip them off.
My point is…..wonder why I would steal at 6? The earrings were pierced and
I knew I couldn’t wear the bracelet for fear of someone seeing it and asking
where I got it.
It really tormented me. I remember thinking all one night of what I would do
if I was caught. I had decided to say I found them at school on the
playground.
Do you think I was born an addict and a shoplifter?
Does anyone else have very early memories of self destructive behaviors?
Callie

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] meth for pain
Date: June 25, 2004 at 6:23:41 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

My experience in New York at clinics over 6 years ago was fairly
negative.There were always good people in them but you always had those that
used their position as a power trip to remind the patients where their place
was in their opinion.Upstate was organized but seemed sadistic to me while
NYC clinics were more like zoos. But of course that is just my opinion.<

This is right at the time I was in the midst of being Manhattan clinic bound
(Greenwhich House East at Cooper Square) every week. I guess I got lucky,
and didn’t give them any “dirty” urine (I HATE that term to describe
urine.), so had a relatively painless clinic experience. I still hated it.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Nowwarat@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, June 25, 2004 10:04 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] meth for pain

NYC has a once a month program for folks that have qualified at a prior
clinic over at least 5 years. They have taken in patients twice in the last
ten years. I’ve been at Beth Isreal for 6 years now.

There are others like it in the USA but it’s legal for any clinic to now
give once a month takeouts. They just ignore it I guess.

My experience in New York at clinics over 6 years ago was fairly
negative.There were always good people in them but you always had those that
used their position as a power trip to remind the patients where their place
was in their opinion.Upstate was organized but seemed sadistic to me while
NYC clinics were more like zoos. But of course that is just my opinion.

Nowwarat

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: June 25, 2004 at 5:54:22 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 6/22/04 11:01:34 AM, Sapphirestardus@aol.com writes:

<<   Hello Howard. I wanted to know something re: endorphins. I’ve heard from
many addicts that using any opiate for a long time depletes your endorphin
reserves and atrophies that part of the brain responsible for producing them.
From
the research I’ve done, there is no evidence of this at all. It is possible
your brain would suspend it’s production much as taking steroids (in large
doses) and the testicles suspend production of testosterone. What is the
story with
this?

10000 doses has not completed his report yet but, I thought I would start to
post it to the ibogaine list.  As I previously indicated it is from methadone
watchdog

[quote=”10000doses”]

The person that wrote this post is absolutely correct.  Endorphin production
continues during opiate use, dependency and withdrawal.  His analogy to
steroids is only partially correct.  The testicles cease to produce testosterone
because the hypothalamic pituitary testicular axis is disrupted by the presence
of excess testosterone.

With the opioid system the disorder comes from the effects of tolerance,
enzymatic degradation of opioids and the proliferation and redistribution of
mu-opiate receptors from chronic opiate, especially morphine, use. Methadone not
only does not cause this proliferation and redistribution, it has been show to
correct or undo it, or allow the body to do so.

It’s been clearly demonstrated that at least the tolerance portion of the
equation varies substantially from person to person based on genetic differences,
and recent research has shown genetic differences in the enzymatic
degradation of opioids from opioid receptor sites.  In fact I believe that this is the
direction ibogaine research should go.  It’s very possible ibogaine, aside from
whatever other properties it may possess, disrupts or inhibits the inevitable
enzymatic breakdown of all opioids at the receptor site.

Recently a new term has been cropping up in scientific literature,
“peripheral morphinergic signaling.”  That is, the concept of endogenous morphine as a
true hormone.  This opens up a whole new area of research for the cause, source
and genetic origin of the disorder of the endogenous opioid system.

Give me a little more time and I’ll finish with this post in mind.  I think
many will be shocked at some of the latest research findings.  I’ll include the
citations in the format shown above so anyone interested can easily search
and see for themselves.[/quote]

http://atwatchdog.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8840

[quote=”10000doses”]Here’s my start Howard.  Your direction was scant so I
just took off.  The going is a little slow when I include citations.  I’d say
I’m over half done, if you see room for improvment let me know.  I’l need a
couple free hours to finish tomorrow.  A few of these citations are as recent as
this week.  Most of the stuff I read is based on research prior to the turn of
the century.

Nothing is copyrighted, anyone can take whatever they want.

[size=11][b]COME TOGETHER[/b]
Any discussion of opioid induced changes in the brain first requires a brief
account of the history and basic understanding of the Opioid Systems.

In 1965 the U.C. Berkeley professor, Choh Hao Li, known for synthesizing five
pituitary hormones, synthesized a peptide that he thought was a new hormone,
beta-lipotropin[1].  Eight years later Lars Tereniun of the University of
Uppsala, and Eric J. Simon of the New York University School of Medicine
discovered that opioids act by attaching to specific opiate receptors within the brain
[2].  Shortly thereafter Candace Pert and Solomon Snyder Johns Hopkins
University School of Medicine refined the original methodology of Avaram Goldstein of
Stanford University [3] to allow the unequivocal measurement of opiate
receptor binding [4].  This naturally led to an inquiry as to why the brain would
contain specific receptors for a chemical, morphine, found in the opium poppy
plant Papaver somniferum.  It was hypothesized that the brain must contain it’s
own morphine-like compound that activates these newly discovered receptors.
In 1975, Hans Kosterlitz and John Hughes of the University of Aberdeen,
Scotland, identified and named two neurotransmitters, leu- and met- enkephalins,
meaning “in the head” and, together with T.W. Smith, L. Fothergill, B. Morgan,
and H.R. Morris, published the cited Nature paper [5], which characterized these
peptides.  The Scottish group recognized the peptide sequence they had
discovered as being the same as the beta-lipotropin hormone discovered earlier by
Dr.Choh Li.

Dr.Choh Li would later isolate the chemical from his beta-lipotropin
pituitary hormone. He named this chemical endorphin, meaning “the morphine within”.
Since these original discoveries fifty-three opioid receptors and their
subtypes have been discovered.  Over twenty types of endorphins, also known as opioid
peptides, and more recently several new highly selective opioid peptide
ligands like morphiceptin [6] and endomorphins [7,8] have demonstrated specific
receptor affinity.

Ironically, after all the searching for a morphine like substance in the
brain, recent advances in chemical detection have shown that all mammals,
including humans naturally produce morphine and its direct precursor, codeine within
the brain, adrenal glands and various tissues, [9, 10, 11] and is known to have
a hormonal role. [12]

[b]ONE IS THE LONLIEST NUMBER[/b]
There are five primary G-protein coupled opiate receptors; delta, kappa,
sigma, epsilon and mu.  Each primary receptor has many subtypes, as recently as
this month two new splice variants of the mu-opioid receptor have been
identified and characterized, bringing the current total for the mu-opioid receptor to
fifteen [13].  The mu-receptor subtype, mu-1, is primarily responsible for
analgesia and euphoria, while the mu-receptor subtype, mu-2, is primarily
responsible for respiratory depression and slowed heart rate associated with morphine.

Each primary receptor type associates with the various endogenous (produced
within) opioid peptides.  With the endogenous opioid peptides role as a
neurotransmitter, there exists a lack of a neurotransmitter reuptake mechanism for
recycling of the endorphins.  Instead each time endorphins are needed; they must
be remanufactured from a new precursor.  It has been hypothesized that the
opioid system modulates the nervous system activity over a comparatively long
time scale, rather than the instantaneous transfer of other neurotransmitters.
[14] These activities are severely limited to their shot life spans.
Endogenous opioids are rapidly consumed by enzymatic degradation. [15}

[b]I CAN’T GET NEXT TO YOU[/b]
Endogenous opioids represent potent neurochemical regulators, modulating the
activity of almost every biological function including appetite, sexuality,
body temperature, sweat, heart rhythm, respiration, peristalsis, pain
perception, pituitary hormonal activity, ion channel neural-electrical activity, mood,
experience pleasure, perception of danger, courage, and fear to name the most
studied.

When exogenous (outside the body) opioids are introduced into the body
whether for pleasure, the treatment of addiction or for pain control a host of
biological functions are rapidly modified.  This discussion will be limited to the
biological activity modulated mostly by the mu-opioid receptors; analgesia,
euphoria, tolerance, withdrawal and the limbic system. This includes emotional
expression modulated by a portion of the brain called the amygdala, sensory
integration modulated by the thalamus, and the hypothalamus, which maintains
proper levels of body fluids, heart rate, and other functions critical to
survival.

1.  Arch Biol Med Exp (Santiago). 1968;5(3):55-61.
-Lipotropin, a new pituitary hormone.
Li CH.

2.  Am J Med Sci. 1973 Sep;266(3):160-8.
In search of the opiate receptor.
Simon EJ.

3.  Science. 1973 Mar 9;179(77):1011-4.
Opiate receptor: demonstration in nervous tissue.
Pert CB, Snyder SH.

4.  Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 1973 Aug;70(8):2243-7.
Properties of opiate-receptor binding in rat brain.
Pert CB, Snyder SH.

5.  Nature. 1975 Dec 18;258(5536):577-80.
Identification of two related pentapeptides from the brain with potent opiate
agonist activity.
Hughes J, Smith TW, Kosterlitz HW, Fothergill LA, Morgan BA, Morris HR.

6.  Science. 1981 Apr 3;212(4490):75-7.
Morphiceptin (NH4-tyr-pro-phe-pro-COHN2): a potent and specific agonist for
morphine (mu) receptors.
Chang KJ, Lillian A, Hazum E, Cuatrecasas P, Chang JK.

7.  Peptides. 1997;18(10):1635-9.
Isolation of relatively large amounts of endomorphin-1 and endomorphin-2 from
human brain cortex.
Hackler L, Zadina JE, Ge LJ, Kastin AJ.

8.  FEBS Lett. 1998 Nov 13;439(1-2):152-6.
Endomorphins fully activate a cloned human mu opioid receptor.
Gong J, Strong JA, Zhang S, Yue X, DeHaven RN, Daubert JD, Cassel JA, Yu G,
Mansson E, Yu L.

9.  Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 1986 Jun;83(12):4566-7
Presence and formation of codeine and morphine in the rat.
Donnerer J, Oka K, Brossi A, Rice KC, Spector S.

10. Med Sci Monit. 2004 Jun 1;10(6):MS1-MS5. [Epub ahead of print]
Endogenous morphine and codeine in the brain of non human primate.
Neri C, Guarna M, Bianchi E, Sonetti D, Matteucci G, Stefano GB.

11. Int J Mol Med. 2001 Apr;7(4):419-22.
Presence of endogenous morphine and morphine 6 glucuronide in human heart
tissue.
Zhu W, Bilfinger TV, Baggerman G, Goumon Y, Stefano GB.

12. Neuroendocrinol Lett. 2002 Feb;23(1):21-6.
A hormonal role for endogenous opiate alkaloids: vascular tissues.
Stefano GB, Zhu W, Cadet P, Mantione K, Bilfinger TV, Bianchi E, Guarna M.

13. Med Sci Monit. 2004 Jun 1;10(6):MS28-MS32. [Epub ahead of print]
Mu opiate receptor subtypes.
Cadet P.

14.[/size][/quote]

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] an ode
Date: June 25, 2004 at 5:51:24 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

HI all,
This is really only on topic due to who wrote this, an old formerly
using friend of mine. This is most definitely a very first for me, an ode to
me.
This guy works at a regular mainstream paper here in Manhattan, and I
guess he was pretty bored a few days ago.
Peace and enjoy. I know I really needed this smile, and I’m still laughing.
Preston
(posted with permission)

Ode To A Man In A Dress- by Ian Potts

Sitting in my office on a boring Wednesday,
My fingers went off looking for some games to play.
I scribbled on a pad and wrote a joke I didn’t get,
And then I did some searching on the internet.

I came across some sites that were very, very boring,
And I knew I’d fall asleep and very soon start snoring.
But then I found a page about “The voices of the street”,
And a picture of that saucy boy called  “Preston Peet”.

“Oh My!” I said out loud to all the people in the room,
And my heart skipped a beat and went “boom-b-dee-boom”.
“That’s my buddy! He’s my friend! Yes! It’s  Preston Peet!”
He wears a ring of fire and has tattoos on his feet!”

I jumped up and down and had to be sedated,
I was so excited, I was totally elated,
Just to see him doing well in his indigenous style
Made me fuzzy, made me warm and made me grin a happy smile

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From: iboga@ziplip.com <iboga@ziplip.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Perishable0pp0rt(unity)4th&5th
Date: June 25, 2004 at 1:30:53 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On the topic of 12 steps, could this be a better way to work a 4th and 5th step?
http://ca.search.yahoo.com/search/ca?vc=&p=%22How+to+write+a+screenplay%22
then send it to mike@michaelmoore.com , anyone find a fax or address, because he might actually recieve it if done that way.   He’ll get sued over the previews to his current one lol
“nutz”

http://ca.search.yahoo.com/search/ca?vc=&p=%22Contact+Michael+Moore%22

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From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Senate office fax is down; email instead
Date: June 25, 2004 at 12:31:49 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: Carl-olsen@mchsi.com, writch@writch.com, toots_77@sbcglobal.net, tndangelo@aol.com, TCW@genesis-computer.com, ganjamama55@hotmail.com, mclcfaith@ameritech.net, T_Robertson@globe.com, indianbud@wirefire.com, mmackenzie2@juno.com, dangssdp@yahoo.com, jblotcher@hvc.rr.com, Jodi@flcan.org, hemptress@hemprock.com, richard.rawlings@sbcglobal.net, laurie.mischley@mac.com, randall@slackernet.com, ramillegan@aol.com, rmelamed@uccs.edu, revtombrown@hotmail.com, <btm42@hotmail.com>, NewOrleansMarch@hotmail.com, pcornwell@earthlink.net, smithmf@colorado.edu, nanabear@att.net, jay99hoo@yahoo.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Email yr text to

Katie_Joyce@kerry.senate.gov

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From: iboga@ziplip.com <iboga@ziplip.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Json2Cal
Date: June 25, 2004 at 11:46:02 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Callie,
I’ve never done a blind detox, but I would I would talk to who ever is in charge of your dose and maybe chill a week or so, but that’s your call, or rather, that’s who ever is in charge of your detox call, so perhaps it’s a good idea to let them know how you are feeling and if you don’t trust your own judgement let them decide, then come back and let us know, I am curious to see.
To the at 6 memory, I think we as children perhaps aren’t fully aware of the consequences of action and learning from experience, I think the impulse to steal, especially when young is natural, but most get cought, perhaps the children who got cought and didn’t hold on to that are better off?  who knows.  It’s a universal cycle of desire but in that desire is the seed for giving and in giving is the seed for taking etc.  I think realization and consistent action afterwards can be of some benifit, even if that action’s objective is only to feel dope sick as little as possible.  I have a bad habit of sprinting at the first sign of pattern and it is a marathon.  I tried to get past some of the compulsion by asking myself “am I using methadone to get high or to not be sick”. Everything else seemed obvious after that, ie I get sick when I use all weeks supply in one day.  I had to do that way with the street version of the sickness too, it stopped being about getting high after about a month or two of IV.  When I say a High, I mean the high we got in the beginning, not just the feeling of releaf of sickness going away, like eating without taste buds to kill hunger except food doesn’t cause hunger.
Opiates take away sickness.*
(*causes the sickness).
“Their is only one step to this process”
What they don’t tell you is they can use decimal point.
But I really feel for you and admire you Callie, because it was recommended to me that I cut my dose down before ibo too and I didn’t have the courage to do it, so my hats off to you on your willingness to walk through that.  It’s the multipling factor that concerns me (lower the dose = bigger percentage of dose cut, and was the dose cut from 5 weeks ago finished being sick? etc)

—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: 25 Jun 04, 7:43 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Jason
I am doing a blind detox but it is to be no more than 1 mg per week. It is difficult for me to not ask what milligrams I am on. The blind detox was per my request. The reason I am detoxing is to experience Ibogaine in the winter hopefully.
I anticipate my counselor saying “Why do you sabotage yourself?” “Everytime you have some clean time behind you this happens.”She is right. It may not be weed but it will be something else, benzos or drinking all my bottles and supplementing morphine (even though I can’t feel a thing from the Morphine!).
Hell, it is just addict thinking and behavior! I have been doing it my entire life.

I want to throw something else out there…..
I am a compulsive shoplifter. It is a LOT improved because I do not want to risk going to jail but it is still there at times.
When I was writing in my journal about shoplifting the other night I remembered something from when I was about 6 years old. 6 is about the earliest age I can remember well.
My Mom had us stay with a baby-sitter lady down the street while she worked 2 or 3 days a week.
She had a daughter who was 15 or 16 I guess.
I remember waking from nap in her daughters room and seeing the jewelry box on the dresser. I looked through her jewelry and took a pair of earrings and a bracelet.
I knew it was wrong and after that I used to cry because I didn’t want to go back.
Nothing was ever said. I feel sure they never suspected a 6 year old would rip them off.
My point is…..wonder why I would steal at 6? The earrings were pierced and I knew I couldn’t wear the bracelet for fear of someone seeing it and asking where I got it.
It really tormented me. I remember thinking all one night of what I would do if I was caught. I had decided to say I found them at school on the playground.
Do you think I was born an addict and a shoplifter?
Does anyone else have very early memories of self destructive behaviors?
Callie

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Jason
Date: June 25, 2004 at 10:42:34 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I am doing a blind detox but it is to be no more than 1 mg per week. It is difficult for me to not ask what milligrams I am on. The blind detox was per my request. The reason I am detoxing is to experience Ibogaine in the winter hopefully.
I anticipate my counselor saying “Why do you sabotage yourself?” “Everytime you have some clean time behind you this happens.”She is right. It may not be weed but it will be something else, benzos or drinking all my bottles and supplementing morphine (even though I can’t feel a thing from the Morphine!).
Hell, it is just addict thinking and behavior! I have been doing it my entire life.

I want to throw something else out there…..
I am a compulsive shoplifter. It is a LOT improved because I do not want to risk going to jail but it is still there at times.
When I was writing in my journal about shoplifting the other night I remembered something from when I was about 6 years old. 6 is about the earliest age I can remember well.
My Mom had us stay with a baby-sitter lady down the street while she worked 2 or 3 days a week.
She had a daughter who was 15 or 16 I guess.
I remember waking from nap in her daughters room and seeing the jewelry box on the dresser. I looked through her jewelry and took a pair of earrings and a bracelet.
I knew it was wrong and after that I used to cry because I didn’t want to go back.
Nothing was ever said. I feel sure they never suspected a 6 year old would rip them off.
My point is…..wonder why I would steal at 6? The earrings were pierced and I knew I couldn’t wear the bracelet for fear of someone seeing it and asking where I got it.
It really tormented me. I remember thinking all one night of what I would do if I was caught. I had decided to say I found them at school on the playground.
Do you think I was born an addict and a shoplifter?
Does anyone else have very early memories of self destructive behaviors?
Callie

From: Nowwarat@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] meth for pain
Date: June 25, 2004 at 10:04:16 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

NYC has a once a month program for folks that have qualified at a prior clinic over at least 5 years. They have taken in patients twice in the last ten years. I’ve been at Beth Isreal for 6 years now.

There are others like it in the USA but it’s legal for any clinic to now give once a month takeouts. They just ignore it I guess.

My experience in New York at clinics over 6 years ago was fairly negative.There were always good people in them but you always had those that used their position as a power trip to remind the patients where their place was in their opinion.Upstate was organized but seemed sadistic to me while NYC clinics were more like zoos. But of course that is just my opinion.

Nowwarat

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] more reaction to CSI
Date: June 25, 2004 at 9:27:34 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I think that’s all she could draw before, a straight line.
;-))
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, June 25, 2004 9:02 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] more reaction to CSI

lol! Yep, the Ibogaine episode was on last night. It is pretty silly!
WOW! Very nice tree for someone who couldn’t draw a straight line before!
Callie

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From: <deartheo@ziplip.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Julian
Date: June 25, 2004 at 9:24:28 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Fyi Julian, Howard got your post up at http://www.atwatchdog.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8840

In regard to how honest to be with medical people, it is very thin ice and I would be careful who you trust.  I found a split dose helped me the most so that is a way to get around the come in every day factor.  But it infuriates me to no end that it takes so long to get take home privilages when, if you look at the black market for methadone, the majority of it comes from ‘Sunday take homes’ that ANY patient can get from day one.  So again the methadone policy contradicitons.
Also, if I planned on going down on my dose, I’ll be damned if I let them do it because, if I bite off more then can chew and go down too much too quickly, some clinics require you see the doc before they can increase it back to even just previous dose to ‘stabalize’, the doc only comes in on certain days during certain hours and if you work during these hours you are stuck unless you take off work.  So (permanent Mindvox record : ) hypothetically speaking of course, when I went down, I did it on my own, so I could manage it without the burocracy of the system (could go back to where I was without any problems and without having to wait).
I’m not saying this is best for everyone, obviouslly their are many ‘oil burners’ who can’t see the benifit in having a dose for everyday until resupplied, so to each their own.

The clinics in Dallas don’t test for THC, I assume because they know if they did, they would loose the majority of their clients and clients = money.  Going to the clinic can be a daily reminder that ‘you are a junkie’ and sometimes that isn’t the best way to start a new day, I personally didn’t make eye contact with other patients the years I went, although at the same time others feel it is a helpful way to start a day and find comfort in knowing they aren’t the only one…
If doctors ask me if I smoke pot, I say, ‘of course not, that would be illegal’, with a grin, they know  I would be cornered if I said otherwise, they know the game.  Symantics bullshit.

Callie, If you are “strongly craving” a joint, I wouldn’t smoke.
If you are “strongly craving” either a joint and/or heroin, I would choose the joint. If you are de-creesing dose too quickly I would “stabalize”.
But the guilt seems counter-productive, as long as you are honest with yourself and another, sometimes that another is at the clinic, othertimes clinic staff and procedures can seem like my worst enemy.  Each clinic has different staff with different opinions so who’s to say.
\Keep that guilt in check though, don’t let it get the best of you.  I guess it depends who you trust more, the clinic staff or yourself, neither is perfect but which, in reality, is the lesser of two evils.  I wouldn’t have gone ‘blind’ on my dose for all the money in the world.

Callie, are you still going down on your dose and if so how quickly?
I hope you have a good weekend too : )  I wonder what you anticipate your counciler saying about smoking?
-Jason
—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Friday, June 25, 2004, 5:08 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Julian

Weird, again, in that the clinic I attended here in NYC did not test for
pot.
Also, for some reason, I never had a problem with my take-home bottles, and
HATED going to the clinic, so much appreciated having a week’s worth in my
possession. For me, the only good thing about going to my clinic was seeing
on rare occasions my councelor. She was cool-ish.
I will admit that I do not do as well with my pain meds, taking more
than prescribed of the one until I run out early, then using my other to get
through until I can see my doc again. But I do pretty well even with those,
probably because I take them for pain first and foremost- but they’re never
quite enough admittedly. Ye Old “MORE” syndrome.
Callie, WHY oh WHY would you have to feel you need be “honest” with your
clinic over the pot use? I mean, I myself always tell doctors when they ask
“are you taking any illegal drugs” that yes indeed, I smoke pot. They’ve
always since I’ve been an adult anyway, replied with words to the effect of,
“oh, that’s ok, that’s not what I meant- I meant DRUGS.”
LOL!
But my point is, if it would make life harder for you to admit to pot
use to your clinic folk, think about not telling them.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, June 25, 2004 1:46 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Julian

Julian,
I know a lot of folks who feel just like you do about coming to the clinic
everyday. I have never felt that way. In fact, it was a relief to me to come
to clinic everyday to be dosed. My drug intake was being managed by someone
other than myself. I have NEVER been able to take medication like I should!
Even now I fuck up and take an extra sip or gulp of my take home bottles if
I feel a need to! I asked that my take homes be taken away on two occasions,
simply because I could not help drinking it all before time for me to return
to clinic. I am getting better about it but I am still not 100 % compliant!
I use to feel like you about being honest regarding my fuck ups BUT…..one
night I was lying in bed kicking myself in the ass because I was not going
to have a dose for the next day when it hit me!!!!!!!
I AM NEVER GOING TO GET BETTER IF I DON’T GET HONEST WITH SOMEBODY!!!
I can hardly be honest with myself!
Lately, I have been smoking a little weed. I take Protonix for gastric
reflux disease and it has been known to show a positive THC in drug screens.
I let the nurses know when I got the script and they documented it. Well, it
is a free ticket for me to smoke weed! They are excusing my dirty THC
urines!
I know deep down I need to be honest about this but so far I can’t! I know
if I don’t I am still playing that fucking control game addicts play!
It is easier for me to not smoke weed than it is for me to be honest with my
counselor that I have been strongly craving a joint!!
Well, I am going to start rambling if I don’t stop here! lol!

Hope everyone has a nice weekend!
Callie

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] meth for pain
Date: June 25, 2004 at 9:17:08 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I don’t know what daily dosage you are on but the pain Docs I am familiar with here in Nashville are hesitant to write even 15mg three times daily. If the Doc is okay with it the Pharmacists question the dosage. That may be just because it is Nashville, Tennessee. Our city is not very receptive to the Methadone clinic and Methadone. Hell, they better get used to it….the addicts signing up on the program are getting younger and younger!
I will have to say that I feel our clinic treats you respectfully. The ladies in the finance department are sometimes like mad Dobermans but if you keep your bill current all is usually okay.
Nowwarat, where do you travel from and to if you don’t mind sharing. You were lucky to be able to fly to your clinic once a month! That would be pretty cool! That is to fly to the Methadone clinic of your choice!
Callie

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Julian
Date: June 25, 2004 at 9:09:52 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 6/25/2004 7:08:42 AM Central Daylight Time, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:
Callie, WHY oh WHY would you have to feel you need be “honest” with your
clinic over the pot use?

Preston, I guess because it has been pounded into my brain that I need to be totally abstinent to be working towards recovery!
Really, now that I think of it, it should not matter what ‘other’ people say as long as I feel comfortable with my life and usage. I know I sure enjoyed the couple of joints a friend turned me on to a couple of weeks ago!
Maybe I should be grateful I have a free pass as far as my urine screens go! lol! I will keep the refills up to date on my Protonix!
Callie

From: Nowwarat@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] meth for pain
Date: June 25, 2004 at 9:07:22 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I travel a few hours once a month for my  meth. The doc keeps insisting I should just find a local Doc to give it to me for pain. He doesn’t seem to  understand that I can’t just go from Doc to Doc until I find one that will agree to give me a script for it.

I used to fly in from Florida once a month.He couldn’t understand why I would do that.Anyone that has been through a regular clinic would understand and would probably trade flying in once a month from anywhere and be treated like a regular patient than degraded in a meth cliniic.

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] more reaction to CSI
Date: June 25, 2004 at 9:02:03 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

lol! Yep, the Ibogaine episode was on last night. It is pretty silly!
WOW! Very nice tree for someone who couldn’t draw a straight line before!
Callie

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Julian
Date: June 25, 2004 at 8:08:25 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Weird, again, in that the clinic I attended here in NYC did not test for
pot.
Also, for some reason, I never had a problem with my take-home bottles, and
HATED going to the clinic, so much appreciated having a week’s worth in my
possession. For me, the only good thing about going to my clinic was seeing
on rare occasions my councelor. She was cool-ish.
I will admit that I do not do as well with my pain meds, taking more
than prescribed of the one until I run out early, then using my other to get
through until I can see my doc again. But I do pretty well even with those,
probably because I take them for pain first and foremost- but they’re never
quite enough admittedly. Ye Old “MORE” syndrome.
Callie, WHY oh WHY would you have to feel you need be “honest” with your
clinic over the pot use? I mean, I myself always tell doctors when they ask
“are you taking any illegal drugs” that yes indeed, I smoke pot. They’ve
always since I’ve been an adult anyway, replied with words to the effect of,
“oh, that’s ok, that’s not what I meant- I meant DRUGS.”
LOL!
But my point is, if it would make life harder for you to admit to pot
use to your clinic folk, think about not telling them.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, June 25, 2004 1:46 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Julian

Julian,
I know a lot of folks who feel just like you do about coming to the clinic
everyday. I have never felt that way. In fact, it was a relief to me to come
to clinic everyday to be dosed. My drug intake was being managed by someone
other than myself. I have NEVER been able to take medication like I should!
Even now I fuck up and take an extra sip or gulp of my take home bottles if
I feel a need to! I asked that my take homes be taken away on two occasions,
simply because I could not help drinking it all before time for me to return
to clinic. I am getting better about it but I am still not 100 % compliant!
I use to feel like you about being honest regarding my fuck ups BUT…..one
night I was lying in bed kicking myself in the ass because I was not going
to have a dose for the next day when it hit me!!!!!!!
I AM NEVER GOING TO GET BETTER IF I DON’T GET HONEST WITH SOMEBODY!!!
I can hardly be honest with myself!
Lately, I have been smoking a little weed. I take Protonix for gastric
reflux disease and it has been known to show a positive THC in drug screens.
I let the nurses know when I got the script and they documented it. Well, it
is a free ticket for me to smoke weed! They are excusing my dirty THC
urines!
I know deep down I need to be honest about this but so far I can’t! I know
if I don’t I am still playing that fucking control game addicts play!
It is easier for me to not smoke weed than it is for me to be honest with my
counselor that I have been strongly craving a joint!!
Well, I am going to start rambling if I don’t stop here! lol!

Hope everyone has a nice weekend!
Callie

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] more reaction to CSI
Date: June 25, 2004 at 7:47:54 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

HI all,
I believe some of you might know Anne, and so I’m posting her note to
DrugWar.com here. She wasn’t too happy with the CSI episode, which I’m
assuming was reaired recently.
Peace all.
Preston
—–

Oh lord have mercy – I mean everybody knows there’s no love lost between
myself and the idea of Ibogaine as a cure for drugs – at least in my own
case, it was a miserable failure as a cure.  However – what DID happen was I
did indeed encounter the Bwiti and consequently I do know THAT part of it is
real. In fact, it is the ONLY thing that happened as promised.  It was
deeply spiritual.  I wouldn’t have paid three thousand dollars for it but
neither am I sorry I had the experience.

Amusingly, I was left with the ability to draw trees at the age of forty
seven (approx) after never being able to draw a crooked line in my entire
life.  There is one of my trees on the front of my website at
http://www.eastvillagepoetry.com – nothing to put in the Museum of Art, but
nothing to be ashamed of either – but anyway, although it didn’t cure me of
addiction I was still left with a deep and passionate love of Ibogaine.  Not
that I would want to experience it again – it was difficult and not a
recreational trip – but it was something that taught me in less than three
seconds that there IS more to what we first believe here on earth and the
heavens.

Consequently, I despise them using Ibogaine as the subject of a stupid
weekly crime show – in particular, they’ve got their facts bass ackward.
Crime Scene I – I don’t know what the I is for but it’s CSI on Thursdays at
ninish.

I’m going to write to them right now and tell them how corny and out of the
loop their show was.  Ibogaine and clowns and halfways houses and people
addicted to Ibogaine which is NOT addictive – I mean really – just a bunch
of sensationalistic air fluff.

mutter mutter grumble grumble
Anne

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From: Nowwarat@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] maximum methadone to start on buprenorphine
Date: June 25, 2004 at 7:25:42 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

30 mgs. has been touted as the minimum amount to forstall withdrawals.I’ve had a doc critisize me for breaking my dose into several thru the day.He said if I had a job instead of a disability I would have my mind on things other than how I feel. Another clinic director told me it’s impossible for me to feel withdrawal after 22 hours as it should hold me 36 hours.

I think alot of people have been forced to suffer needlessly as clinic gastapo try to make each patients physiology fit a one size fits all. I find a minimum of16-18 mgs will hold me around 5-6 hours no matter what’s going on. A full dose will never last 24 hours unless I either overdose or underdose for a couple of days first. Why they are so fixed on keeping you to an exact regimen is a mystery to me.

Nowwarat

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Julian
Date: June 25, 2004 at 1:46:50 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Julian,
I know a lot of folks who feel just like you do about coming to the clinic everyday. I have never felt that way. In fact, it was a relief to me to come to clinic everyday to be dosed. My drug intake was being managed by someone other than myself. I have NEVER been able to take medication like I should! Even now I fuck up and take an extra sip or gulp of my take home bottles if I feel a need to! I asked that my take homes be taken away on two occasions, simply because I could not help drinking it all before time for me to return to clinic. I am getting better about it but I am still not 100 % compliant!
I use to feel like you about being honest regarding my fuck ups BUT…..one night I was lying in bed kicking myself in the ass because I was not going to have a dose for the next day when it hit me!!!!!!!
I AM NEVER GOING TO GET BETTER IF I DON’T GET HONEST WITH SOMEBODY!!!
I can hardly be honest with myself!
Lately, I have been smoking a little weed. I take Protonix for gastric reflux disease and it has been known to show a positive THC in drug screens. I let the nurses know when I got the script and they documented it. Well, it is a free ticket for me to smoke weed! They are excusing my dirty THC urines!
I know deep down I need to be honest about this but so far I can’t! I know if I don’t I am still playing that fucking control game addicts play!
It is easier for me to not smoke weed than it is for me to be honest with my counselor that I have been strongly craving a joint!!
Well, I am going to start rambling if I don’t stop here! lol!

Hope everyone has a nice weekend!
Callie

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] WiSd0M oPh t][E 4ge5
Date: June 25, 2004 at 1:25:28 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

WOW! That little gold man has a helluva tongue! I think I  met him one night! hahahaha!!!!!!
Callie

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: June 24, 2004 at 7:55:56 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 6/24/04 5:06:05 PM, tgoodson7@cox.net writes:

<<

—– Original Message —–

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2004 10:59 AM

Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe

Hello Howard. I wanted to know something re: endorphins. I’ve heard from
many addicts that using any opiate for a long time depletes your endorphin
reserves and atrophies that part of the brain responsible for producing them. From
the research I’ve done, there is no evidence of this at all. It is possible
your brain would suspend it’s production much as taking steroids (in large
doses) and the testicles suspend production of testosterone. What is the story with
this?

Thank You,

Julian  >>

Dear Julian,

I have asked a colleague of mine who goes under the name of 10000 doses to
provide the research.  The response is being produced in parts and can be found
on the addiction treatment watchdog page

http://atwatchdog.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=1&sid=661263f6a1e2bbcc32d257652a4
8c3bd

Scroll down the page and click on the topic, 10000 doses – question- opioid
induced changes to brain?

I will post the entire response once 10000 doses has finished but, if you
want to get to it faster just check out the watchdog page.

Howard

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] buprenorphine
Date: June 24, 2004 at 7:49:25 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 6/24/04 4:18:36 PM, Nowwarat@aol.com writes:

As I mentioned previously I was taking 110 mg. daily of meth and tried
buprenorphine (temgesic) about 5mg. and I went into acute opiate withdrawal.
It was one of the worst experiences of my life which includes having a month
in a burn unit, a couple of dozen cops destroying my house,bilateral
hip-replacements  etc. That buprenorphine induced withdrawal was right
up  there.

The proposed crossover dose for going from methadone to buprenorphine is
30mg/day of methadone or less and that does not preclude some withdrawal signs.

Howard

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From: Patrick K. Kroupa <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] WiSd0M oPh t][E 4ge5
Date: June 24, 2004 at 7:09:07 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: voxadm@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

https://www.tripatourium.com/images/flash/trippywisdom.swf

Patrick

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From: “Tommy” <tgoodson7@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: June 24, 2004 at 5:59:19 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2004 10:59 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe

Hello Howard. I wanted to know something re: endorphins. I’ve heard from many addicts that using any opiate for a long time depletes your endorphin reserves and atrophies that part of the brain responsible for producing them. From the research I’ve done, there is no evidence of this at all. It is possible your brain would suspend it’s production much as taking steroids (in large doses) and the testicles suspend production of testosterone. What is the story with this?

Thank You,

Julian

From: Nowwarat@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] buprenorphine
Date: June 24, 2004 at 5:17:49 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

As I mentioned previously I was taking 110 mg. daily of meth and tried buprenorphine (temgesic) about 5mg. and I went into acute opiate withdrawal. It was one of the worst experiences of my life which includes having a month in a burn unit,a couple of dozen cops destroying my house,bilateral hip-replacements etc. That buprenorphine induced withdrawal was right up there.

From: Nik <goosebumpz2002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Bill Wilson and LSD
Date: June 24, 2004 at 3:41:57 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

i actually bring this up at meetings quite often and its common knowledge bill wrotye about it in his book “Pass it ON” see bill W freaked out that he was being looked at like a messiah when all he was was the common low bottom alcoholic and he used LSD in the same way they used belladona in the 20’s it helped a great deal of alcoholics who could not imagine a power greater then themselves or a god of any kind and lsd helped break down many barriers especially when religion wasnt so liberal in the early sixties and he was chastised by intergroup[ which is the higher up people in AA which really doesnt exist anymore but they told him he was destoying AA and he stepped down and continued to get spun and have spiritual experiences and ghiving peopel psycacdelics for there second step if they could not get it peace love and tranquility  ME

“jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu> wrote:
In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

> All I know is that if I hadn’t found AA I would most definitly had been dead.
> I don’t think if Bill did acid or not deminishes what help the big book has
> done for mankind. I’m an acoholic stoned junkie and if I hadn’t quit drinking
> first I would have never been lucid enough to find ibogaine. I’m ready to
> attack the next addiction. Randy

No, I don’t think anyone’s saying that Bill’s experimentation with LSD
diminishes the value of the 12 steps itself, but what it does say is that
many AAers need to stop being such judgemental cunts.

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Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – Send 10MB messages!

From: Nik <goosebumpz2002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: June 24, 2004 at 3:34:55 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Buprenorphine works it is amazing there is  only a mild detox from that its equal to maybe a vicodan a day but it relieves  ALL i mean ALL withdrawl but the problem you are facing is that met withdrawl takes about 21 days so be prepared  i have been off methadone for 95 days  and i am still fatigued but clean and feel really good when i wake up its a miracle you are probably scared and filled with doubt but i did it and i was at 120mgs for 2 and a half ye3ars  i detoxed down a mg a day down to 75 and i swear on my grandmothers grave 8mg of suboxone took all withdrawl away untill they cut me off of that then the met withdrawl came back but i got through the worst of it now i am working on a ibogaine treatmernt good luck even though theres no luck involved i know you can do it   Love peace and tranquillity!   Me

“Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com> wrote:
Hey, the voice of experience here!!  I have that kind of pain for which I have had two epidurals, two facet blocks, MRI’s, Xrays, cat
scans, etc., etc., etc.  I have more docs following my problems than you can ever imagine!!  Even prolotherapy.  For pain, I am
taking the lowly Ultram.  The MRI indicates that the two lower vertebrae are out of alignment and I have a BAD right hip.  I am
the BiscuitBoy714’s mom.  He very sweetly would give me some of his stuff if it would help.  The pain (for me) that radiates down
the right leg – to the bottom of the foot is caused by inflamation of the sciatic nerve.  Everything the docs have tried have helped
somewhat.  I would suggest that you get an MRI if you can because it is very descriptive and helps the docs decide what your
problem is and, therefore, what they could do to help you out.  My 2Cent’sWorth.

Good Luck

ann
think@francomm.com

—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2004 9:24 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe

In a message dated 6/22/2004 3:54:42 PM Central Daylight Time, jimhadey3@yahoo.com writes:
I doubt it since my back pain which is why I am on disability, some days I limp and the pain goes from my lower back down the butt, leg and out the foot.  Other times it radiates upwards and goes into spasm.

I would wager my next two paychecks that you have a herniated or bulging disc pinching a nerve in your lumbar area. Have you had a MRI, x-rays or maybe a CAT scan?
Your description is very classic of pinched nerve which can be treated in physical therapy or as last resort, surgery.

BTW, I could get down to 20 mg of met but no matter how slowly I tried to go below 20 mg w/d would start.

I have heard this a lot from some of my friends too. Personally, I have not been that low.
What worked for them is very slow tapering….maybe 1 mg every two weeks. You might have to even go slower than that.
Will your clinic let you have enough control of your detox that you can say you need to stop for a while until comfort level goes up?
This disease is a BITCH isn’t it?

He thinks I am bipolar and like I said I have tried all the antidepressants and some like Depakoat and Effexor make me hallucinate – bad ones along with bad dreams.

If you are bipolar (manic depressive) you need to be on Lithium. All the antidepressants in the world will not help someone with manic depression. Your body has low lithium levels if you are bipolar/manic depressive.
Do you have a mental health worker or psychiatrist?
If so, I encourage you to let them manage your mental health issues. If they could communicate well with your physician now that would be ideal and would help you all! It would free your Doctor up where he could concentrate on your addiction, Hep C, etc., etc.

Also, back to your back….if you haven’t had a MRI, ask for one. Your back pain is not going to go away until the cause, which I feel is pinched nerve, is treated.

Look forward to hearing what you decide.
Peace, Callie
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – Helps protect you from nasty viruses.

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Kerry Fax Numbers for Friday morning zap
Date: June 24, 2004 at 3:10:44 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 6/24/04 12:02:13 PM, Sapphirestardus@aol.com writes:

Good Morning Dana. In regards to this semi-synthetic version of Ibogaine
via
Stanley Glick, if this is legal is is available to people yet?

Legal to the best of my understanding and totally unavailable.  Also, no
known effects on human subjects.

Howard

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From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] thoughts at my grandmother’s funeral
Date: June 24, 2004 at 1:10:35 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

No doubt Sean, treatment essentially is punishment. It’s funny how methadone clinics deal with people as though they are children as well as scum of the earth and yet they do not see the connection between their perception of us and the way many of us behave. For instance, clinics impose rules and procedures (like strict take outs and urines) because they claim we will falsify and lie. Many do but what they don’t understand is people feel compelled to behave this way to avoid the ‘punishments’ imposed on us for doing what we came to the program for! If you make me come everyday to my medicine it is a punishment, plain and simple. It would be no different if someone needed pain medication but the drug store tells them they can only supply them with one day’s worth, since it is a controlled substance…..

Let’s face it, once you arrive at once a week or twice a week, you are never going to want to lose that schedule. If you slip and get high, you have no incentive to be honest about your getting high and deal with it because you are more concerned with avoiding the punishment of coming everyday.

Have a real good day man,
Julian

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Kerry Fax Numbers for Friday morning zap
Date: June 24, 2004 at 1:01:13 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Good Morning Dana. In regards to this semi-synthetic version of Ibogaine via Stanley Glick, if this is legal is is available to people yet?

Julian

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Kerry Fax Numbers for Friday morning zap
Date: June 24, 2004 at 11:03:42 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: Carl-olsen@mchsi.com, writch@writch.com, toots_77@sbcglobal.net, tndangelo@aol.com, TCW@genesis-computer.com, ganjamama55@hotmail.com, mclcfaith@ameritech.net, T_Robertson@globe.com, indianbud@wirefire.com, mmackenzie2@juno.com, dangssdp@yahoo.com, jblotcher@hvc.rr.com, Jodi@flcan.org, hemptress@hemprock.com, richard.rawlings@sbcglobal.net, laurie.mischley@mac.com, randall@slackernet.com, ramillegan@aol.com, rmelamed@uccs.edu, revtombrown@hotmail.com, <btm42@hotmail.com>, NewOrleansMarch@hotmail.com, pcornwell@earthlink.net, smithmf@colorado.edu
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Boston: “Attention: Cameron Kerry” 617-523-2033 (phone: 367-1551)

New York “Attention: Chris Heinz” 212-764-7209 (phone: 764-7104)

D.C.: “Attention: Mary Beth Cahill, Brian Levine 202-712-3001 (phone: 712-3000)

Senate Office: “Attention: Katie Joyce 202-224-8525 (phone: 224-2742)

Remember, these faxes are to go out between 11 am and noon EASTERN
time. It’s alright to call up and check to see if they got your fax.
Tell them to to have whoever’s in charge of health and human services
policy contact me at 212-677-4899.

Here’s the very latest fax test: I need you to write a personalized
version of this. Here’s a slightly corrected version. Fiddle with it,
but let me see any changes you make so we can keep it accurate.

{My name is XXXXX and I’m writing you on behalf of the YYYYY
organization.] OR, if you feel comfortable saying yr actually going
to vote for him [My name is XXXXXX and in 2000 I voted for Ralph
Nader (or Harry Brown). This year I’m voting for John Kerry.]

We can report that many folks who voted for Ralph Nader in 2000
because of his strong public opposition to the Drug War have
reluctantly come around to backing John Kerry this year. However, the
conventional wisdom we’re hearing out of Kerry staffers–that he
can’t even mention the War on Drugs without losing votes to Bush —
is making it hard get up much enthusiasm and go out and really stump
for Kerry among the one or two per cent of the electorate who vote
their conscience on this issue.

We need more than the wink and nudge routine we got from Clinton in
1992. While we can accept your position that decriminalization of
marijuana or personal use amounts of other illicit drugs is out of
reach at this time, ACT UP at least got Clinton to endorse needle
exchange in October of 1992–and that made a difference later.

What we need is a fig leaf–something–we can take back to our people
to get them to vote for Kerry enthusiastically, not just grudgingly,
so that all their friends turn out and vote for him as well. People
who are not familiar with our slice of the electorate just don’t
really get the extent to which our voters have important concerns
other than decrim, such as replacement of imprisonment with
non-coercive  treatment  effective  for both withdrawal and craving.

During the Wisconsin primary, when Theresa Heinz Kerry came back and
asked for more literature  on the first broad spectrum cure for
addiction, Ibogaine, we were heartened–only to be told by staffers
that no one in the campaign would talk to us, because Ibogaine itself
is banned in the U.S. (though not in Canada, Mexico, or any other
major country). Understand: there is currently NOTHING else effective
for crack or crystal meth dependency. The low point was when Ibogaine
website URLs were removed from the Kerry Internet “town meeting” site
because such information might enable U.S. addicts to get treatment
in one of the countries where it’s legal. (Kind of like banning
mention of the names of the 10 states where medical marijuana is
legal…) Evidently your webmasters assume a Kerry Presidency is set
to impose prohibition of Ibogaine everywhere.

Recently, though, the New York State Office of Alcohol and Substance
Abuse Services (OASAS) put up its own Ibogaine webpage. It points out
that there is a semi-synthetic Ibogaine invented by Stanley Glick (a
regular recipient of NIDA research grants) at Albany Medical College,
which has none of the objectionable  side-effects of natural
Ibogaine, is NOT ILLEGAL, and is twice  as effective for nicotine
addiction.

http://www.oasas.state.ny.us/AdMed/meds/fyiibogaine.htm

Our communication with Kerry staffers apparently prompted Fran Lalas
in the D.C. office to refer us back to Lawrence Balter, who works
with volunteers in New York City. Balter, at least, has the
qualification of his own personal experience doing intakes for a
substance abuse treatment center. He readily admits that “Treatment
on Demand” is a dead letter as long as the starting price tag for
anything effective is $13,000  for 30 days in a residential detox
(compared to $1300 for 48 hours of ibogaine, effective for 45 days to
4 months–to the rest of your life!). But he says he can’t really do
anything for us, and he hasn’t come up with a phone number for a
policy person who can address our concerns.

So we are communicating with you from all the battlefield states
where we have a network in place. We’re not trying to disrupt. All
we’re  asking is for you to do the right thing, to live up your
previously stated position of replacing imprisonment with medical
treatment  for addicts. The Rockefeller drug laws and “Three Strikes”
are failing because government that spends more locking up nonviolent
offenders than it does on higher education is not creating the kind
of America John Kerry or any of us wants to see. What is needed is
the kind of bold White House initiative Richard Nixon displayed in
implementing methadone maintenance over the objections of the
nay-sayers and “not invented here” cadres of established bureaucracy.

If you can come out for stem-cell research, you can come out for the
next generation of drugs to treat addiction, and turn the promise of
treatment on demand into reality. Help us get the more than one
million people, who voted for Nader because he was for a progressive
drug policy, to vote for John Kerry.

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] No Patient is Safe- the War on Pain Relief
Date: June 24, 2004 at 10:16:27 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

HI all,
I put the following up at DrugWar.com this morning, with a long list of
links following the essay that lead to articles about the WOPR itself, pain
advocacy, what pain treatment consists of, and more.
Please feel free to forward this email where you will.
Peace,
Preston

http://www.drugwar.com/ppain062504.shtm
No Patient is Safe- the War on Pain Relief
By Preston Peet

posted at DrugWar.com
June 24, 2004

(image)
US Drug Czar John Walters attacks pain patients and their doctors

“I can’t up your prescription, because I don’t want to get flagged by the
DEA,” said a New York City doctor to a chronic pain patient, who described
the difficultly she’s had obtaining adequate pain medication. “My doctor has
told me the DEA can stop by at any time to check on individual patients and
their prescription,” said the pain patient, who specifically requested
anonymity, “so he is hesitant to give me the amounts I need to really get on
top of my pain. This can often leave me in serious pain with no way out
other than to either grin and bear it or go buy illegal street drugs. This
is not an option for me personally due to all the hassles of not knowing
what’s been cut into the street drugs, or worse, the possibility of running
into some overeager anti-drug squad fanatics, but I know plenty of people
who suffer chronic pain problems who do not share my aversion to these
risks.”
snip-
Read Article and Access Links at above URL

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Sara’s web site down?help needed
Date: June 24, 2004 at 12:10:46 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 6/23/04 4:41:17 PM, iboga@ziplip.com writes:

Sara Glatt’s web site (iboga.tk) appears to be down.  If it is down because
of who built the previous one, perhaps someone can help??

The web page is missing as are the search engine citations.  There used to be
a second webpage address for sara’s web page but, I cannot find that as well.
Any news of sara appreciated.

Howard

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: June 23, 2004 at 11:08:46 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 6/23/04 10:24:00 AM, Sapphirestardus@aol.com writes:

Howard, I know hydocodone is a little different than oxycodone, but when
I was in the hospital for my accident, I was given Oxy IR. It was just
Oxycodone
and nothing else-no tylenol, no motrin, no aspirin. Isn’t oxy basically
the same as hydro?

It is more effective by weight and comes in 5mg and 10mg tabs with no
additives if you want.  It also comes in continuous release form, the dreaded
oxycontin.  Just teasing.

Howard

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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] thoughts at my grandmother’s funeral
Date: June 23, 2004 at 9:52:20 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Julian,

Very well put concerning opening eyes.  My ibogaine interest has led me to explore the larger question of harm reduction in general.  I came away more convinced that ever that even “treatment” for addicts, is most often another kind of punishment for the sin of addiction.

Sean

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: June 23, 2004 at 8:05:23 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Great to see your response Jim. More than anything, I would like to be in a position to not have to take any chemicals to function or feel somewhat better. Unfortunately I did make some choices that guided me to where I am now. I really don’t get too upset about it. I try to not only live with it, but I try to even like it. But you are 1000% on when it comes to the medical profession. So rarely have I come across a doctor or nurse who knew anything worthwhile about chemicals and psychopharmacology. They’re just assholes most of the time and if you do find someone who is sympathetic, compassionate and knowledgeable, man that’s fucking golden! I have usually been disrespected, mistreated and poorly cared for (medically speaking). Of course most (straight) people would say I was treated just fine. I got what I deserved I guess. It’s a real shame that we have to compromise on our state of body and mind because you know as well as I that we could be in much better shape if the ‘professionals’ would just understand and learn. Maybe there aren’t perfect treatments out there but there are very good ones, good drugs that would really help us. Hey, keep in touch man. We can help each other.
thanks again,
Julian

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fax Zap Friday Morning, 11 AM Eastern Standard Time
Date: June 23, 2004 at 7:15:07 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

So far I’ve gotten definite  advance text or commitments from Missouri, Iowa, Minnesota, New Mexico, Nevada, Arizona, Oregon, Ohio, Tennessee and Florida. I may be able to get Washington, Colorado, Maine and North Carolina on board and could still use help wih Wisconsin and Pennsylvania.

If you have not sent me yr advance text please do it tomorrow, Wednesday. This is a really good time to do it since Kerry just came out for stem cell research with all the Nobel Laureates.

If he can meet with their doctors, he can meet with Stan Glick and Ken Alper–or at least Theresa can.

Remember, the idea is shower four fax numbers with faxes between 11 am and 12 noon eastern time on Friday–Kerry’s Senate office, his D.C. campaign HQ attention Mary Beth Cahill and Brian Levine, his New York office attention Lawrence Balter, and his Boston HQ atten Cameron Kerry (his brother).

You should be ready to field phone calls re Ibogaine, but to refer them to me at Cures not Wars (212-677-4899) or John Parker at the National AIDS Brigade in Boston (617-464-3336). You should also be prepared to follow up with faxes to yr state Kerry HQ.

Please contact me if you’re in one of the states I’m not sure of. The next email from me will be the fax numbers.

Dana/cnw

From: iboga@ziplip.com <iboga@ziplip.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Sara’s web site down?help needed
Date: June 23, 2004 at 5:38:48 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear List,
Sara Glatt’s web site (iboga.tk) appears to be down.  If it is down because of who built the previous one, perhaps someone can help??
Especially needed is making sure that any “Treatment provider lists” have her e-mail (sara119@xs4all.nl ) to make sure the person seeking information doesn’t get sent to a web address that appears to be down.
If anyone knows good web space or is willing to donate some space for a site, please e-mail her.  Any help is very much appreciated, even if it is only a suggestion of someone else who could help.
I feel we must work together to make our common objectives possible.
Cheers,
Jason

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: June 23, 2004 at 3:26:19 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

If you hear more please let me know. Thanks Callie.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2004 12:04 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe

Hi Preston!
Most lawyers will take a percentage of your back pay. I am trying to call a
friend who went the lawyer route to find out some specifics.
Callie

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From: “Randy Hencken” <randyhencken@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] 2nd request
Date: June 23, 2004 at 3:22:38 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Howard and list,

We haven’t treated any patients for bupe at the IA.  We ask Bupe patients to switch to a short acting opiate for a few weeks prior to Tx.

~Randy

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] 2nd request
Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 12:41:03 EDT

Dear List,

Has anyone been treated with ibogaine for buprenorphine/subutex or suboxone
dependence??

Any information appreciated.  As there are more and more buprenorphine
dependent patients it may be anticipated we will see more and more of them treated
with ibogaine.  I am seeking information on ibogaine/buprenorphine interaction
with an endpoint of determining can burprenorphine patients be treated with
ibogaine or will buprenorophine have to be substituted by another opioid in
those patients prior to ibogaine therapy?

Howard

Howard S. Lotsof
President
Dora Weiner Foundation
POB 10032
Staten Island, NY 10301-0032
USA
dir tel, 1 718 442-2754
dir fax, 1 718 442-1957
email, dwf123@earthlink.net
http://www.doraweiner.org

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_________________________________________________________________
MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail from any Web page – FREE download! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: June 23, 2004 at 12:58:46 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Julian,

Glad to hear from ya.  140 mg of met wow – don’t leave home without it.  And if you were to tell a family doc that it doesn’t get ya high they wouldn’t believe it.  Yea,  I think I will have to live with my problem, like my buddy who has been on met for 10 plus years.  He says it keeps me out of jail.  Sometimes we just have to live with our habits.

Sometimes I worry too much.  When I moved to MI from FL and went to a doc for Lortab, even thou I was on disability he treated me like a piece of shit.  Told me five or six times he wasn’t going to give it me Lortab or Valium.  Hey, I only asked him once, why did he have to treat me like shit, I didn’t argue.  I told him about the hep C and I could see the contempt in his face.  When he asked me how I got it I told him probable shooting up drugs in the 60’s.  He was a REAL asshole, trust me.  The other doc I went to gives me six Lortabs, 2 Valium and a Resteril and would give me Ambian if the insurance would cover it.  I never lied to him yet.  Docs like that are hard to find.  Thing is I seem to out lived several docs and moved around a fair amount.

You want another funny story.  My buddy, he is one of those been shot, been stabbed, guys – nice if you know him and also a black belt.   He was shot in the throat and had a lot of stuff done.  He goes to the doc and the doc wants to give him Tramadol or Ultram or something like that and he came to me for help.  I said to him you should of hit the doc and broke his jaw and said: “Now did that hurt?  Good take some Tramadol.”  I gave him a few extra pills that I had.  I sometimes will say to a doc I don’t know what to do, if you were  in a lot of pain what would you want to take?  They kind of look at me funny.

See, I think part of it is the NA crap, yes it has helped lots of people but some people will have to live with their habit.  Looking back at what you said it would be silly to cut down to 20mg of Lortab then in a week it rains to back up to 40 to 60 mg.  Then back down to 20 mg.  I thing I will try and get down to between 50mg and save a pill a day so I have something for a rainy day.  But in a way I would like to never have to take a pill again, but if you don’t want to take a pain pill then suffer – duh.  So  I will mention to him about the depression, we have tried serveal and they make things worse.  And the Chronic Fatigue I guess I will  have to live with it.  Like I said some docs do not believe in it, like Gulf War Syndrome, or Agent Orange.  But whatever, I will ask him if he feels bupe will ease the depression and give me more energy.  If not I will have my good days and bad day and carry on.  What else can I do.  At least I got a decent doc who listens.

Yea, I can see where your coming from.  If you get a piece of you cut off you thank God you can get an artificial one (leg for example) rather than bitch.  You got to count you blessings not your sorrows.  I have learned quite a bit from you – Thanks.

Be carefull, please
– JIM

Sapphirestardus@aol.com wrote:
Hello Jim. I’ve read your mail and totally sympathize as well as empathize. Last year I had an amputation on my left foot (partial) and just when I began to start feeling less pain, I got into a very severe motorcycle accident. That was in October last year and it appears I’ll be needing pain killers for a long time, maybe the rest of my life. The thing is I’ve always suffered from depression and also tried everything out there. Presently I’m on Wellbutrin. Nothing really works all that well but for me, Wellbutrin seems to be the most effective. I’m on methadone (140 mgs) and have been for over twenty years. I think I remember you saying this is not an option for you due to the difficulty in getting off it. Maybe you can look at it my way. Though I intend to experience Iboga/Ibogaine and at times wish to be off of everything, I accepted the fact that if I take methadone for the, so be it. There’s no euphoria but I do notice that in me, with high enough doses, it also works as an anti-depressant. When I decrease my dose below 100mgs., or try to detox completely, it always screws things up for me. (A few people on this site can attest to that, I was a real asshole to everybody when I first came upon this site which was during my last attempt at detoxing) . It may not work for you the same but could you try to approach treatment as a permanent thing, or at the very least, just take it a day at a time rather than worry about the future re: detoxing? Believe me I really do know the difficulty you are having but it seems for me, with permanent pain, low energy and depression and drug addiction, my options are few. Medication is the most effective treatment for me and I don’t think it’s all that bad. At times I wish I was on nothing, but in my reality, it’s not a viable option at this time.

Man, I really hope the best for you,
Julian

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail is new and improved – Check it out!

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: June 23, 2004 at 12:04:13 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Preston!
Most lawyers will take a percentage of your back pay. I am trying to call a friend who went the lawyer route to find out some specifics.
Callie

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] thoughts at my grandmother’s funeral
Date: June 23, 2004 at 11:47:46 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jim, that analogy about the guy falling out of a building being asked how he is doing is very cool. Got anymore?
Julian

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: June 23, 2004 at 11:30:42 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You’re absolutely right Callie. I had tried a few years ago when I had permanent pain and problems with my right knee, diabetes and of course substance addiction. Needless to say I was turned down even with two appeals. This time around (and this was before the motorcycle accident) I got it the first time I asked. This time I had no attorney, but the first time I did. Usually you do not get it the first time and I believe when they see persistence, it does impress them differently. It may be their way of weeding out people who don’t really need it. If you give up after being turned down, they figure you can’t be too disabled.
Julian

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: June 23, 2004 at 11:22:59 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Howard, I know hydocodone is a little different than oxycodone, but when I was in the hospital for my accident, I was given Oxy IR. It was just Oxycodone and nothing else-no tylenol, no motrin, no aspirin. Isn’t oxy basically the same as hydro?

From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: June 23, 2004 at 11:21:21 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Howard,

My liver enzyems are only slightly elavated:

AST  60   (normal 2-50)
ALT  80    (normal 2-60)
It used to be 2 1/2  or more times the normal

My viral load last checked was about 750,000 down from 2.6 mill 9 months ago.

I went through the interfearon but was a non responder.  I have type sub type 1c or 2c, I forget right now, which has the least response to interfearon and makes up 70% of the people in the U.S. that have it.

Now here’s the kicker my cholesterol is less about half as much as normal.  Now the liver stores glycon(SP) that is used for energy, perhaps that is why I have no energy.

I never had a biopsy.  However, I never was a drinker.  I can’t get drunk because I get sick before I get drunk.  A blessing in disguise.  If not for that I would of been dead years ago.  I am in my 50’s and many people that I used to hang with are no longer with us.  Car accidents, shootings, OD’s, Hep C ect. ect.  The 60’s were a strange time indeed.  If only I started college as soon as I got out of HS, if only I did my homework before smoking pot, if only I never used heroin, If only I smoked a little weed and did a mushroom here or there, If only….  Yea, you get the picture.

BTW, he ran a blood test on Tylenol and it was FAR below the danger point.  See, the doc is thorogh.

I mentioned to a guy earlier today there is a preperation of Lortab w/o Tylenol.
One is a syrup, the other is Vicoprofin 7.5/200  check it out on drugstore.com if you can’t find it e-mail me personally if you want via yahoo jimhadey3 and I will give you the link or cut and paste it for ya.

Thanks for asking and your help.  I really don’t know if I will mention to my doc about the bupe for depression.  Maybe I will hand him a print out from patient 1 and ask him to look at it when he gets a chance and say tell me if you think this will work.  He knows that I know a fair amount about the body and drugs and spend time on the net looking up stuff.
Hey, I really don’t have much more to do.

Take care,

– JIM

I have never had a
HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:
I do not believe that any doctor in the US would write rxs for buprenorphine
to treat depression. As for the 30 patient limit, the Congress has just voted
to increase that to 300 but, the senate still has to vote on it. However,
that does not appear to be an issue with your doctor.

You can have your doctor take a look at http://buprenorphine.samhsa.gov/ as
it will give him information on the 8 hour training he would have to take to
prescribe buprenorphine for chemical dependence issues. There is also a
physician locator on the same page.

To my surprise I could not locate a pharmaceutical preparation of hydrocodone
without an additive. You can contact me off list but, what state is your
liver in? How are your liver enzyme levels? Have you had a biopsy? Do you know
your viral load? What you should know about hcv is that more people die with
it than from it.

Howard

In a message dated 6/22/04 3:54:31 PM, jimhadey3@yahoo.com writes:

>
>You helped somewhat, there is not much that I can do. There is a law that
>doc can use medicine for off label use. For example they sometime will
>give anti-seizure or anti psychotics meads for depression. Maybe they
>can give me bupe for depression? However, I don’t know if they can do
>that. A max of 30 people is silly as is many of the U.S. laws. I also
>have the problem of wondering if bupe will work with the Lortab and if
>it does will the Doc go for it. The doc is wonderful, he is not a pill
>pusher but he allows me a 10 mg ever 4 hours or 6 per day plus he gives
>me sleeping pills. You can’t ask for much more from a family doc. Many
>docs will make you go to a pain clinic before giving out that much Lortab.
> I really do not want to be greedy. For you guys taking Lortab it usually
>comes with with 500 to 650mg of Tylenol. And I have hep C. I know some
>of you guys have hep C so let me call your attention to a 10/325 (10mg
>hydrocodone and 325 Tylenol) It can be found on
> drugstore.com and some other pharmacies. I called it to my docs attention
>and he wrote it for me, many docs get pissed if make suggestions like that.
> You can go to drugstore.com and look up hydrocodone and then maybe other
>types of hydrocodone. I can talk to my doc about most anything but I am
>afraid to ask for that. Just like if you ask for dillies (Dilaudid) it’s
>see ya later, I tried to help you and your just trying to get high. He
>knows my past and knows that I was a user, when he how I got hep C I told
>he outright probably shooting up dope in the 60’s. I was honest and he
>knows that if I am taking 60 mg of Lortab a day I am dependent and will
>go through w/d if suddenly taken off, we have talked about it.
>
>On a rainy day I go through hell and sometimes take maybe 8 pills but am
>still in pain. On a better day I can get by on four, however after taking
>6 pills a day I can not go below four because I feel some w/d plus the
>depression. He thinks I am bi-polar and like I said I have tried all the
>antidepressants and some like Depakoat and Effexor make me hallucinate
>- bad ones along with bad dreams. Like a dream where I had to go into
>a room and kill my dad who was in a wheel chair. The lady in Texas who
>drowned her kids was on several antidepressants some which were not to
>be taken together because one stops the metabolizing of the other. The
>Columbine high kid students were on some kind of antidepressants. I have
>tried the tri-cyclics, SSRI, Welbutrin, Zolof, and Prozac etc. and they
>all have VERY bad affects.
>
>As of now I think my best bet would be to lower my dose of Lortab and keep
>on praying that I quit the heroin. By old standards I don’t use much maybe
>$ 30 to $ 60 per week, but the stuff is strong. Since you seem well versed
>and knowledgeable, I got the depression info from this link
http://balder.prohosting.com/~adhpage/bupe.html
>if you or anybody else has the same problem and are interested. Note that
>it was a doc who got strung out on dillies and had depression. His story
>is MUCH like mine. Patient 1 who feels depressed and low energy. I have
>mentioned the low energy, chronic all the way, and some docs do not believe
>in CFS, but it could be the Hep C that is giving me the low energy. I
>have often worked 80 hours weeks, now I can’t work 40 – that hurts. You
>know the feeling or know others that do. It makes you feel like a bum,
>lazy, good for nothing low self esteem, etc.
>
>So, if the doc can write them for depression – GREAT. If he can’t there
>is no use in bringing up the matter. Can I quit opiates completely, I
>doubt it since my back pain which is why I am on disability, some days
>I limp and the pain goes from my lower back down the butt, leg and out
>the foot. Other times it radiates upwards and goes into spasm.
>
>If the doc said I will take you off the Lortabs and give you bute for pain
>and depression I would give it a try. BTW, I could get down to 20 mg
>of met but no matter how slowly I tried to go below 20 mg w/d would start.
> Seems like a hard solution. Thanks for your help. Guess I will pray
>for an answer. And read this forum since many of us are all in the same
>boat. Damn, I wish I could get Ibogaine, another silly U.S. law.
>
>Thanks for answering and your input,
>
> – JIM
>
>HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:
>
>In a message dated 6/22/04 8:56:13 AM, jimhadey3@yahoo.com writes:
>
>>I have a question that maybe one of you could help me with. Is it easier
>>to quit bupe than met? In the past I have found met impossible w/o using
>>heroin. So I do not want to go back to something like that. Plus the
>>met clinics here in Michigan are rotten. Sometimes I do heroin daily and
>>sometime I can get by with doing it a couple of times a week and use my
>>Lortab to combat pain and w/d, honest I do have severe pain.
>>
>>Now, if I could go on bupe that might help for I was reading an article
>>that it helps with depression. After using for 40 years off and on it
>>seems ones body no longer makes endorphins and such. Also, things like
>>Paxil, and Prozac, Zoloft etc. etc. don’t work for me.
>>
>>Or should I continue to take my Lortab and try to slowly cut down to maybe
>>10 – 20 mg per day. Which I was able to do once. Right, once in the
>>last 10 years. I really don’t know much about bupe but was reading about
>>some people having problems getting off of it. I remember in the 60’s
>>met was suppose to be eaiser to get off of than the heroin. No one I know
>>will go along with that. All but one or two people were able to kick met
>>w/o being in jail or such.
>>
>>So I guess it comes down to trying to detox using Lortab (which I never
>>abused – if you take it every day you will not get high) or trying the
>>bupe which I think is about $400 a month at a clinic or Doctors office,
>>I’ll have to ask my buddy.
>>
>>Thanks for any help you can give me on this.
>
>There are indications that buprenorphine is easier to quit than methadone
>
>but, methadone is not hard to quit if you slowly taper. Buprenorphine should
>be
>faster to quit based on the doses being taken. Most methadone clinics do
>suck
>and your treatment as a methadone patient leaves much to be desired.
>
>There are a few key issues. One is that lortabs contain tylenol and that
>is
>liver toxic. The second is if you want out of illicit drug taking, heroin
>for
>instance. Becoming a buprenorphine patient will label you as a person with
>
>an opiate dependence disorder. Also you will have to evaluate the doctor
>who
>will rx buprenorphine to inform yourself whether he/she is following a
>practice
>of maintaining their patients or taperingtapering older patients on a regular
>
>basis to take in new patients. This is particularly a problem at this time
>
>since the law only allows a doctor to have 30 buprenorphine patients at
>a time
>and the new patients are charged heaver intake fees and are worth more
>to the
>doctor than stabilized patients.
>
>What dose of methadone were you on? And, the only way to see how you will
>
>respond to buprenorphine is to try it.
>
>Well, these are some discussion points. What do you think?
>
>Howard

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From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] thoughts at my grandmother’s funeral
Date: June 23, 2004 at 11:19:05 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

It’s too bad others don’t know this as well as you stated it. It’s like people think the w/d can’t be all that bad if you continue to get high knowing that is one of the consequences. A habit, even a minor one would open eyes.

Julian

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: June 23, 2004 at 11:15:49 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello Jim. I’ve read your mail and totally sympathize as well as empathize. Last year I had an amputation on my left foot (partial) and just when I began to start feeling less pain, I got into a very severe motorcycle accident. That was in October last year and it appears I’ll be needing pain killers for a long time, maybe the rest of my life. The thing is I’ve always suffered from depression and also tried everything out there. Presently I’m on Wellbutrin. Nothing really works all that well but for me, Wellbutrin seems to be the most effective. I’m on methadone (140 mgs) and have been for over twenty years. I think I remember you saying this is not an option for you due to the difficulty in getting off it. Maybe you can look at it my way. Though I intend to experience Iboga/Ibogaine and at times wish to be off of everything, I accepted the fact that if I take methadone for the, so be it. There’s no euphoria but I do notice that in me, with high enough doses, it also works as an anti-depressant. When I decrease my dose below 100mgs., or try to detox completely, it always screws things up for me. (A few people on this site can attest to that, I was a real asshole to everybody when I first came upon this site which was during my last attempt at detoxing) . It may not work for you the same but could you try to approach treatment as a permanent thing, or at the very least, just take it a day at a time rather than worry about the future re: detoxing? Believe me I really do know the difficulty you are having but it seems for me, with permanent pain, low energy and depression and drug addiction, my options are few. Medication is the most effective treatment for me and I don’t think it’s all that bad. At times I wish I was on nothing, but in my reality, it’s not a viable option at this time.

Man, I really hope the best for you,
Julian

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: June 23, 2004 at 10:40:44 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks Jim for the background info.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2004 9:08 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe

Hi Pete and Callie,

I got my disability in Florida.  Seriously, here is how the game is played.
You apply and get turned down, appeal and get turned down, then get a lawyer
and win.  I don’t care what’s the matter with you in Florida that is how the
game is played.  A guy who was needing disability went to a lawyer and the
lawyer said go by yourself and get turned down twice, then come get me and I
will get it for you.  It would be a waste of time and money if I went with
you the first two times.

I know people who are worse than me and people who I think are fine and
don’t want to work who are getting it.  Damn, you should of spent a few
extra bucks and been rebuilt like the six million dollar man, better than
new with all you got wrong with you.  Of course I’m kidding, laughter can be
the best medicine, sometimes you have to laugh to keep from crying.  IMHO,
get a lawyer for the third time.

See, you must be totally disabled, I am not being funny this time they will
say something like can you answer a phone?  If you can sit for an extended
period of time you could work for a company at the phone desk.  If you can
stand you can take tickets at the show for min wage.  Maybe you can be a
rent-a-cop and sit at a desk and watch people sign in and out at a company,
again for min wage or close to it.  Now, if your meads cause you problems
like make your depressed and you have crying spells for no reason, can’t
remember shit, often forget your phone number, address and what the hell you
were talking about, cause you to nod out, can’t count money very good (7-11)
etc. now your more disabled.  You have to be unable to do most anything.  I
know, I know, life is unfair, we don’t make the rules.  I know a guy who is
getting it and he climbs and jumps out of trees.  If I jumped three feet I
would be in tears.

I seem to think it is a pinched nerve but I had an MRI and it just showed a
slightly squished disk at the lower back.

I am afraid of met so I will keep on trying to stop on my own since I don’t
use much heroin, but we all know how it can jump.  With Lortab I see the doc
once a month, I really don’t have the energy to go to a met clinic every
day.  If you think about it I should be able to detox from 60 mg to 20 mg of
Lortab.  I have but the depression and lethargic starts in. I seem to notice
the depression when I run low on narcotics, also an extreme weakness.  I
have asked my doc for Dexedrine or meth and he will not right for it.  I
even asked if he could give me 3 days worth to try and he will not.  I
really can’t blame him 99% of the other docs would not either.

The shrink is the one who gave me the effexor that made me hallucinate.  He
just passes out pills until he feels he has the right chemical balance, hell
that could take years.  You would not believe the dreams I had on those
drugs.  Or my line of thinking.  There are many lawsuits you never hear
about because the get settled out of court.  Many, but not all people who
take those drugs have problems.  But since they make money for the drug
companies they really don’t care, the shrink won’t give me a Valium to save
my life but would give me the Zoloft, Paxil and SSRIs by the handful.

I have been through therapy many times.  You know the hot packs on the back,
the electric thing that feel like ripples, exercise, and massage.  It all
helped but only for a day or so.  But it is either the depression or Hep C
or less narcotics than seem to make me soo lethargic.  If the house caught
on fire my wonderful 8 year old daughter would have to drag me out that’s
how tired I am.  But sometime I am not too bad.  I say I have CFS but some
docs do not believe in that.  Ok, fine, then it is the Hep C that may be
causing it.  And I can’t sleep at night.  Go into a docs office and tell him
you are a former addict, need Lortab, Valium, and Restoril and maybe a hit
of speed on the side (just 5mg) and he will break out laughing and send you
to a shrink.

My doc is one of the best.  He has spend 20 minutes with me.  Often a doc
sees you for 5 min and that’s it.  If you forgot something make another
appointment.  I feel my doc is one of the best.  No, not because he give me
drugs but because he listens and knows I take the drugs like I am suppose
to.  I take one or two 10 mg Valiums a day (usually one) and a Restoril and
Valium at night.  I never take more than two Lortabs because it is a waste.
If you take them everyday you wouldn’t get a buzz.  So I do keep my end of
the bargain.  I keep telling him how lazy and how I have no energy.  He
gives me blood tests and does the best he can.  He’s a doc, not God and he
is one of the best.

Well I  guess I babbled on long enough.  I think next time I will ask him
about lithium, I know it sounds funny but I HATE getting blood taken from me
with those 18G needles.  Go ahead and laugh, when I used it was 26g and 29g,
a 18G is like a wire brad.

Well, I do believed we helped each other, thanks to everyone.

– JIM

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
I doubt it since my back pain which is why I am on disability, some days I
limp and the pain goes from my lower back down the butt, leg and out the
foot.<

I have 80-plus pages of medical history, a metal rod in my right femur from
my hip to my knee, scars out the wazoo, long-term pain management, and still
couldn’t get disability, even with my doctor telling me I’m as close to 100
percent disabled as she’s ever seen.
Yet the above description of your pain is precisely like mine. ‘Cept I
always limp and use a cane.
Hmmm.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2004 9:24 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe

In a message dated 6/22/2004 3:54:42 PM Central Daylight Time,
jimhadey3@yahoo.com writes:
I doubt it sinc! e my back pain which is why I am on disability, some days I
limp and the pain goes from my lower back down the butt, leg and out the
foot. Other times it radiates upwards and goes into spasm.
I would wager my next two paychecks that you have a herniated or bulging
disc pinching a nerve in your lumbar area. Have you had a MRI, x-rays or
maybe a CAT scan?
Your description is very classic of pinched nerve which can be treated in
physical therapy or as last resort, surgery.

BTW, I could get down to 20 mg of met but no matter how slowly I tried to go
below 20 mg w/d would start.

I have heard this a lot from some of my friends too. Personally, I have not
been that low.
What worked for them is very slow tapering….maybe 1 mg every two weeks.
You might have to even go slower than that.
Will your clinic let you have enough control of your detox that you can say
you need to stop for a while until comfort level goes up?
This disease i! s a BITCH isn’t it?

He thinks I am bipolar and like I said I have tried all the antidepressants
and some like Depakoat and Effexor make me hallucinate – bad ones along with
bad dreams.

If you are bipolar (manic depressive) you need to be on Lithium. All the
antidepressants in the world will not help someone with manic depression.
Your body has low lithium levels if you are bipolar/manic depressive.
Do you have a mental health worker or psychiatrist?
If so, I encourage you to let them manage your mental health issues. If they
could communicate well with your physician now that would be ideal and would
help you all! It would free your Doctor up where he could concentrate on
your addiction, Hep C, etc., etc.

Also, back to your back….if you haven’t had a MRI, ask for one. Your back
pain is not going to go away until the cause, which I feel is pinched nerve,
is treated.

Look forward to hearing what you decide.
Peace, Callie

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: June 23, 2004 at 10:26:52 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Peet,

Hey, that’s easy, my friend.  Either go to someone you trust and ask if they know a good lawyer or watch the TV commercials for one.  It works like this, you go to the lawyer, the lawyer gets you your money and might even tell you what to say or what not to say.  Mention EVERYTHING wrong with you.  You might want to bring in the X-rays of the rod, yea kinda gory.  Of course you lawyer will tell you about that.  If he is a good lawyer he will win and they will send him the money, he takes his cut (they make it retroactive to when you first applied) which I believed is capped at $2,400, then sends you the rest.

For me,  my lawyer had four or five of us on one day.  We met at a hotel conference room of some kind.  He told us all, listen you won the case just go in there and answer the questions, answer them and try to keep your answer short so as not to put your foot in your mouth.

They will  ask you how long you can stand, walk, sit, lift etc.  It takes about 15 minutes.
Tell the truth, be nice to everyone.  Now as soon as you win you are eligible for I think it is called SSI so they start sending you like $500 per month, then you get your disability and they deduct the $500 they were giving you while waiting for the check to arrive.  All in all it took me about 90 days to get my money after going to a type of court.  If you applied and were turned down you get it retroactive so you may well have a few grand or so.  See, the lawyer works on a contingency and he gets part of your settlement, just like a car accident or Workman’s comp.  It may be to you advantage to get one who specializes in SSD.  I am sure there are some in the Yellow Pages.  My lawyer (in Florida) told me he has NEVER lost a case.  So get out the phone book and make your calls, good buddy, If you got Hep C I would mention that too as it can make you very tired like it does me if it is not CFS.  Remember too if you have Hep C with high liver enzymes it can cause you to have diarrhea.  No one is going to hire you if you got to go to the bathroom every 15 minutes.  See, you have to be unable to do anything, you must be unemployable.  From what I understand your pay is based on how long you have been working and how much you paid in to the system.  However, I am not sure about that, your lawyer will explain it all to you.  If you don’t feel comfortable with one lawyer go to another, kinda funny it seems like there a dime a dozen.

Best of Luck to you,

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
I’ve been considering the lawyer thing actually, just don’t have any money.
Any suggestions as to how I go about getting one to handle this without any
money up front?
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2004 10:16 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe

In a message dated 6/22/2004 8:44:03 PM Central Daylight Time,
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:
and still
couldn’t get disability, even with my doctor telling me I’m as close to 100
percent disabled as she’s ever seen.

Preston, How many times have you tried to get disability?
Since I am a nurse I have worked with a lot of disabled folks, some drawing
check, some trying to get check.
I have NEVER seen anyone get disability the first time unless they are
paralyzed, have head trauma or something so severe they need assistance with
everyday living. BUT, the ones that were denied got a lawyer and
*bingo-bango* they get approved!
It is a lot of hassle but I am sure it is worth it!
Callie

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] thoughts at my grandmother’s funeral
Date: June 23, 2004 at 9:53:57 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Callie,

You made my day, I laughed so hard when I read your reply.  I thought I was the comic around here.  Yea, that’s how much it hurts but many docs are of the opinion take two aspirins and call me in the morning.

Reminds me of the guy who was on the roof watching a parade and he fell off.  As he fell he passed people looking at the parade out the window and they asked how he’s doing and he would say: ” So far, so good.”

I really think most docs think it is like a touch of the flu.  Otherwise they would be more compassionate.  Oh if they only knew.  When I was in Texas I was taking Tylenol 4 one pill 4 times a day.  No big deal.  Then I ran out, I never thought It would cause all that trouble, the sweats, hot and cold flashes, goosebumps, diarrhea, the whole nine yards.  I almost called the fire department because I thought my ass was on fire.

Thanks, I needed that:)

– JIM

CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 6/22/2004 4:13:01 PM Central Daylight Time, jimhadey3@yahoo.com writes:
I would rather have my appendix out than cold turkey a $20 day habit.

Hell yes!!!!!!Me too!!!!!!!! I would trade that off anytime! Hell, take my gall bladder, uterus…whatever if it will take the withdrawal symptoms away!!!!
Callie

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: June 23, 2004 at 9:51:07 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’ve been considering the lawyer thing actually, just don’t have any money.
Any suggestions as to how I go about getting one to handle this without any
money up front?
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2004 10:16 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe

In a message dated 6/22/2004 8:44:03 PM Central Daylight Time,
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:
and still
couldn’t get disability, even with my doctor telling me I’m as close to 100
percent disabled as she’s ever seen.

Preston, How many times have you tried to get disability?
Since I am a nurse I have worked with a lot of disabled folks, some drawing
check, some trying to get check.
I have NEVER seen anyone get disability the first time unless they are
paralyzed, have head trauma or something so severe they need assistance with
everyday living. BUT, the ones that were denied got a lawyer and
*bingo-bango* they get approved!
It is a lot of hassle but I am sure it is worth it!
Callie

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: June 23, 2004 at 9:11:53 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

My girlfriend V doesn’t like me, with my Hep-C, to take Alieve OR Tylenol.
Is Alieve ibuprofen? It’s not, it’s Noproxen. She feels they’re all bad for
bad livers. I tend to trust her when it comes to stuff I eat.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2004 7:57 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe

I wonder how Ibuprofen compares to Tylenol as far as liver functions go?
Randy

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: June 23, 2004 at 9:08:03 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Pete and Callie,

I got my disability in Florida.  Seriously, here is how the game is played.  You apply and get turned down, appeal and get turned down, then get a lawyer and win.  I don’t care what’s the matter with you in Florida that is how the game is played.  A guy who was needing disability went to a lawyer and the lawyer said go by yourself and get turned down twice, then come get me and I will get it for you.  It would be a waste of time and money if I went with you the first two times.

I know people who are worse than me and people who I think are fine and don’t want to work who are getting it.  Damn, you should of spent a few extra bucks and been rebuilt like the six million dollar man, better than new with all you got wrong with you.  Of course I’m kidding, laughter can be the best medicine, sometimes you have to laugh to keep from crying.  IMHO, get a lawyer for the third time.

See, you must be totally disabled, I am not being funny this time they will say something like can you answer a phone?  If you can sit for an extended period of time you could work for a company at the phone desk.  If you can stand you can take tickets at the show for min wage.  Maybe you can be a rent-a-cop and sit at a desk and watch people sign in and out at a company, again for min wage or close to it.  Now, if your meads cause you problems like make your depressed and you have crying spells for no reason, can’t remember shit, often forget your phone number, address and what the hell you were talking about, cause you to nod out, can’t count money very good (7-11) etc. now your more disabled.  You have to be unable to do most anything.  I know, I know, life is unfair, we don’t make the rules.  I know a guy who is getting it and he climbs and jumps out of trees.  If I jumped three feet I would be in tears.

I seem to think it is a pinched nerve but I had an MRI and it just showed a slightly squished disk at the lower back.

I am afraid of met so I will keep on trying to stop on my own since I don’t use much heroin, but we all know how it can jump.  With Lortab I see the doc once a month, I really don’t have the energy to go to a met clinic every day.  If you think about it I should be able to detox from 60 mg to 20 mg of Lortab.  I have but the depression and lethargic starts in. I seem to notice the depression when I run low on narcotics, also an extreme weakness.  I have asked my doc for Dexedrine or meth and he will not right for it.  I even asked if he could give me 3 days worth to try and he will not.  I really can’t blame him 99% of the other docs would not either.

The shrink is the one who gave me the effexor that made me hallucinate.  He just passes out pills until he feels he has the right chemical balance, hell that could take years.  You would not believe the dreams I had on those drugs.  Or my line of thinking.  There are many lawsuits you never hear about because the get settled out of court.  Many, but not all people who take those drugs have problems.  But since they make money for the drug companies they really don’t care, the shrink won’t give me a Valium to save my life but would give me the Zoloft, Paxil and SSRIs by the handful.

I have been through therapy many times.  You know the hot packs on the back, the electric thing that feel like ripples, exercise, and massage.  It all helped but only for a day or so.  But it is either the depression or Hep C or less narcotics than seem to make me soo lethargic.  If the house caught on fire my wonderful 8 year old daughter would have to drag me out that’s how tired I am.  But sometime I am not too bad.  I say I have CFS but some docs do not believe in that.  Ok, fine, then it is the Hep C that may be causing it.  And I can’t sleep at night.  Go into a docs office and tell him you are a former addict, need Lortab, Valium, and Restoril and maybe a hit of speed on the side (just 5mg) and he will break out laughing and send you to a shrink.

My doc is one of the best.  He has spend 20 minutes with me.  Often a doc sees you for 5 min and that’s it.  If you forgot something make another appointment.  I feel my doc is one of the best.  No, not because he give me drugs but because he listens and knows I take the drugs like I am suppose to.  I take one or two 10 mg Valiums a day (usually one) and a Restoril and Valium at night.  I never take more than two Lortabs because it is a waste.  If you take them everyday you wouldn’t get a buzz.  So I do keep my end of the bargain.  I keep telling him how lazy and how I have no energy.  He gives me blood tests and does the best he can.  He’s a doc, not God and he is one of the best.

Well I  guess I babbled on long enough.  I think next time I will ask him about lithium, I know it sounds funny but I HATE getting blood taken from me with those 18G needles.  Go ahead and laugh, when I used it was 26g and 29g, a 18G is like a wire brad.

Well, I do believed we helped each other, thanks to everyone.

– JIM

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>I doubt it since my back pain which is why I am on disability, some days I
limp and the pain goes from my lower back down the butt, leg and out the
foot.<

I have 80-plus pages of medical history, a metal rod in my right femur from
my hip to my knee, scars out the wazoo, long-term pain management, and still
couldn’t get disability, even with my doctor telling me I’m as close to 100
percent disabled as she’s ever seen.
Yet the above description of your pain is precisely like mine. ‘Cept I
always limp and use a cane.
Hmmm.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2004 9:24 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe

In a message dated 6/22/2004 3:54:42 PM Central Daylight Time,
jimhadey3@yahoo.com writes:
I doubt it since my back pain which is why I am on disability, some days I
limp and the pain goes from my lower back down the butt, leg and out the
foot. Other times it radiates upwards and goes into spasm.
I would wager my next two paychecks that you have a herniated or bulging
disc pinching a nerve in your lumbar area. Have you had a MRI, x-rays or
maybe a CAT scan?
Your description is very classic of pinched nerve which can be treated in
physical therapy or as last resort, surgery.

BTW, I could get down to 20 mg of met but no matter how slowly I tried to go
below 20 mg w/d would start.

I have heard this a lot from some of my friends too. Personally, I have not
been that low.
What worked for them is very slow tapering….maybe 1 mg every two weeks.
You might have to even go slower than that.
Will your clinic let you have enough control of your detox that you can say
you need to stop for a while until comfort level goes up?
This disease is a BITCH isn’t it?

He thinks I am bipolar and like I said I have tried all the antidepressants
and some like Depakoat and Effexor make me hallucinate – bad ones along with
bad dreams.

If you are bipolar (manic depressive) you need to be on Lithium. All the
antidepressants in the world will not help someone with manic depression.
Your body has low lithium levels if you are bipolar/manic depressive.
Do you have a mental health worker or psychiatrist?
If so, I encourage you to let them manage your mental health issues. If they
could communicate well with your physician now that would be ideal and would
help you all! It would free your Doctor up where he could concentrate on
your addiction, Hep C, etc., etc.

Also, back to your back….if you haven’t had a MRI, ask for one. Your back
pain is not going to go away until the cause, which I feel is pinched nerve,
is treated.

Look forward to hearing what you decide.
Peace, Callie

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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Yahoo! Mail is new and improved – Check it out!

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: June 23, 2004 at 7:57:11 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I wonder how Ibuprofen compares to Tylenol as far as liver functions go?                                         Randy

From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: June 23, 2004 at 7:37:02 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Randy,

Thanks for your imput about me going on bupe or staying on Lortab.  As we all
know $20 to $50 or so per week can turn into $50 to $100 per day.  I must be a weak because the thought of going 4 days without met sounds like hell.  Seems
that if I did not take it right on time, even an hour or two late,  it would cause problems.
But I haven’t been on it in 15 years.
Thanks for your help.  I think you would of had a better chance with Subutex rather than Suboxone.  But it’s over and done with now.  Subutex can act like an antaganst if your using other narcotics, most of them in fact.  Because they go to the mu receptor in the brain and fight to stay there.
You also took your time to help another person find hydrocodone without Tylenol.
I found the following on drugstore.com

One is a syrup:

Hydrocodone PA Pediatric 2.5-12.5 mg/5ml syrup

and there is

Vicoprofen Hydrocodone-Ibuprofen 7.5 -200mg which are coated and go down easy.
However, they are VERY expensive.
I hope Howard gets to read this.
Take care and thanks,
– JIM

BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:
Howard wrote that to his understanding there is no hydrocodone prep without additives i.e. tylenol…..        I’m pretty sure there is a cough med that is called hyco something and it is hydrocodone and sweeteners only for kids.         Randy

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail is new and improved – Check it out!

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: June 23, 2004 at 5:41:24 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sean, I had private insurance thank God, but I think the state or federal will cover, you just have to be very persistent and I had to get state assistance to help cover living expenses.           Randy

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: June 23, 2004 at 5:32:54 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jim,  If it were me I would stay on the shortest acting opiate that I could manage. I tried to switch from meth to bupe and was unsuccessful. I stopped taking meth for 4 days before trying to switch over. I never did get to feeling well just sick for 2 weeks and ended up going back on meth. I suspect it was the naltrexone in the combo. If you could get the bupe without the naltrexone it may be easier to switch. Good luck            Randy

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: June 23, 2004 at 5:18:45 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Howard wrote that to his understanding there is no hydrocodone prep without additives i.e. tylenol…..        I’m pretty sure there is a cough med that is called hyco something and it is hydrocodone and sweeteners only for kids.         Randy

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] off the shelf
Date: June 23, 2004 at 1:01:07 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 6/22/04 11:11:53 PM, CallieMimosa@aol.com writes:

I wonder what combination of drugs he has patented? Do you know  what the
CNS
stimulant is?
I have not heard of this ‘package’.
Callie

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u
=/netahtml/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=6,503,950.WKU.&OS=PN/6,503,950&RS=PN/6,
503,950

If you have any problem reaching the url go to the US gov patent office
http://patft.uspto.gov/ and search for patent #   6,503,950

The above url is from the US patent office and provides more organized
information.

Here is part of the section from the earlier web page dealing with the
stimulant.

The central nervous system stimulant agent of the preferred embodiment
consists essentially of an effective amount of an amphetamine, such as amphetamine
sulfate, dextroamphetamine sulfate, methamphetamine hydrochloride, combinations
of amphetamines, derivatives and pharmaceutically salts thereof; pemoline,
derivatives and pharmaceutically acceptable salts thereof; methylphenidate,
derivatives and pharmaceutically acceptable salts thereof; caffeine, derivatives
and pharmaceutically acceptable salts thereof; and centrally acting alpha-1
agonists such as modafinil, epinephrine, norepinephrine, phenylephrine,
derivatives thereof and pharmaceutically acceptable salts thereof to reduce or prevent
dizziness, depression, difficulty in being mobile, drowsiness, lethargy,
weakness in the extremities, and orthostatic hypotension associated with anxiolytic
and centrally acting alpha antiadrenergic agents utilized to treat alcohol
and narcotic withdrawal symptomology.

The preferred central nervous system stimulant agent for the treatment of
side effects associated with therapeutic agents used to treat alcohol and
narcotic withdrawal symptoms is about 1-20 mg dextroamphetamine sulfate in an
immediate release dosage form given to a human being about every 4-8 hours,
preferably about every 4-6 hours at regular spaced intervals during the day and up to
about 5 mg as a rescue dose during the night if needed for a period of about
5-14 days. In a controlled release dosage form, the central nervous system
stimulant, dextroamphetamine sulfate, is dosed as 1-20 mg given to a human being
about every 12 hours or once daily without a rescue dose given during the night,
for a total treatment period of about 5-14 days.

In an alternative embodiment, for those patients requiring a non-amphetamine
based central nervous system stimulant agent or those who cannot receive
additional or increased amphetamine doses due to cardiovascular risk concerns, a
centrally acting alpha-1 agonist, such as modafinil, can be used as a substitute
or adjunct for an amphetamine(s), as the central nervous system stimulant
agent of the preferred embodiment.

Centrally acting alpha-1 agonists such as modafinil (Provigil.RTM.) act
postsynaptically at alpha-1 adrenergic receptors and may also bind to dopamine
carriers to increase stimulation and mental alertness within the human body
usually without altering the body’s blood pressure and heart rate excessively like
that of amphetamines. Further, centrally acting alpha-1 agonists do not
decrease stage 2 and REM sleep like amphetamines, and thus offer a treatment
alternative for the practitioner when choosing a central nervous stimulant agent of
the preferred embodiment.

In the alternative embodiment, the preferred central nervous system stimulant
agent for the treatment of side effects associated with therapeutic agents
used to treat alcohol and narcotic withdrawal symptomology is about 50-400 mg,
preferably about 100-300 mg, and most preferably about 200 mg or higher per day
of modafinil administered to a human being every 12 hours, more preferably
once daily in the morning, for a period of 5-14 days.

It should be understood by those skilled in the art that the preferred
embodiment of the present invention can utilize any of the central nervous system
stimulant agents alone or in combination with one another as the central nervous
system stimulant agent component of the preferred embodiment. For example, a
practitioner administering the preferred embodiment containing an amphetamine
initially as the central nervous system stimulant agent could add modafinil as
an adjunct central nervous system stimulant to a particular patient’s drug
treatment therapy where use of an additional amphetamine would not be desirable
and dosing of the current amphetamine could not be increased due to blood
pressure and heart rate considerations.

Those skilled in the art can appreciate and would be able to adjust the dose,
dosing interval, and dosing length treatment period of the central nervous
system stimulant of the preferred embodiment based upon the clinical and
therapeutic response desired for a particular patient undergoing alcohol or narcotic
abuse treatment, liver and kidney function of that patient, as well as drug
interactions between the central nervous system stimulant agent and other
components of the preferred embodiment.

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] off the shelf
Date: June 23, 2004 at 12:10:54 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I wonder what combination of drugs he has patented? Do you know what the CNS stimulant is?
I have not heard of this ‘package’.
Callie

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] off the shelf
Date: June 22, 2004 at 11:26:55 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I just came across a patent that really surprised me.  A patent was issued
for the use of off the shelf medications in combination to treat withdrawal.
Like doctors have not been doing this forever?

http://www.pharmcast.com/Patents/Yr2003/Jan2003/010703/6503950_Nacrotics010703
.htm

Howard

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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: June 22, 2004 at 10:38:50 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Callie,

Disability is really strange.  I am the only person I know who did get the first time, without a lawyer.  The reason: I had PCP, and since the guidelines were written in the early nineties, my life expectancy was three years.

I have been off disability and back to work since Nov 03.  I have heard of disability being approved for HepC treatment, but I am not sure if it was private, or SSD.

Sean

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: June 22, 2004 at 10:16:14 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 6/22/2004 8:44:03 PM Central Daylight Time, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:
and still
couldn’t get disability, even with my doctor telling me I’m as close to 100
percent disabled as she’s ever seen.

Preston, How many times have you tried to get disability?
Since I am a nurse I have worked with a lot of disabled folks, some drawing check, some trying to get check.
I have NEVER seen anyone get disability the first time unless they are paralyzed, have head trauma or something so severe they need assistance with everyday living. BUT, the ones that were denied got a lawyer and *bingo-bango* they get approved!
It is a lot of hassle but I am sure it is worth it!
Callie

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: June 22, 2004 at 9:43:37 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I doubt it since my back pain which is why I am on disability, some days I
limp and the pain goes from my lower back down the butt, leg and out the
foot.<

I have 80-plus pages of medical history, a metal rod in my right femur from
my hip to my knee, scars out the wazoo, long-term pain management, and still
couldn’t get disability, even with my doctor telling me I’m as close to 100
percent disabled as she’s ever seen.
Yet the above description of your pain is precisely like mine. ‘Cept I
always limp and use a cane.
Hmmm.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2004 9:24 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe

In a message dated 6/22/2004 3:54:42 PM Central Daylight Time,
jimhadey3@yahoo.com writes:
I doubt it since my back pain which is why I am on disability, some days I
limp and the pain goes from my lower back down the butt, leg and out the
foot.  Other times it radiates upwards and goes into spasm.
I would wager my next two paychecks that you have a herniated or bulging
disc pinching a nerve in your lumbar area. Have you had a MRI, x-rays or
maybe a CAT scan?
Your description is very classic of pinched nerve which can be treated in
physical therapy or as last resort, surgery.

BTW, I could get down to 20 mg of met but no matter how slowly I tried to go
below 20 mg w/d would start.

I have heard this a lot from some of my friends too. Personally, I have not
been that low.
What worked for them is very slow tapering….maybe 1 mg every two weeks.
You might have to even go slower than that.
Will your clinic let you have enough control of your detox that you can say
you need to stop for a while until comfort level goes up?
This disease is a BITCH isn’t it?

He thinks I am bipolar and like I said I have tried all the antidepressants
and some like Depakoat and Effexor make me hallucinate – bad ones along with
bad dreams.

If you are bipolar (manic depressive) you need to be on Lithium. All the
antidepressants in the world will not help someone with manic depression.
Your body has low lithium levels if you are bipolar/manic depressive.
Do you have a mental health worker or psychiatrist?
If so, I encourage you to let them manage your mental health issues. If they
could communicate well with your physician now that would be ideal and would
help you all! It would free your Doctor up where he could concentrate on
your addiction, Hep C, etc., etc.

Also, back to your back….if you haven’t had a MRI, ask for one. Your back
pain is not going to go away until the cause, which I feel is pinched nerve,
is treated.

Look forward to hearing what you decide.
Peace, Callie

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From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: June 22, 2004 at 9:38:47 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey, the voice of experience here!!  I have that kind of pain for which I have had two epidurals, two facet blocks, MRI’s, Xrays, cat
scans, etc., etc., etc.  I have more docs following my problems than you can ever imagine!!  Even prolotherapy.  For pain, I am
taking the lowly Ultram.  The MRI indicates that the two lower vertebrae are out of alignment and I have a BAD right hip.  I am
the BiscuitBoy714’s mom.  He very sweetly would give me some of his stuff if it would help.  The pain (for me) that radiates down
the right leg – to the bottom of the foot is caused by inflamation of the sciatic nerve.  Everything the docs have tried have helped
somewhat.  I would suggest that you get an MRI if you can because it is very descriptive and helps the docs decide what your
problem is and, therefore, what they could do to help you out.  My 2Cent’sWorth.

Good Luck

ann
think@francomm.com

—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2004 9:24 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe

In a message dated 6/22/2004 3:54:42 PM Central Daylight Time, jimhadey3@yahoo.com writes:
I doubt it since my back pain which is why I am on disability, some days I limp and the pain goes from my lower back down the butt, leg and out the foot.  Other times it radiates upwards and goes into spasm.

I would wager my next two paychecks that you have a herniated or bulging disc pinching a nerve in your lumbar area. Have you had a MRI, x-rays or maybe a CAT scan?
Your description is very classic of pinched nerve which can be treated in physical therapy or as last resort, surgery.

BTW, I could get down to 20 mg of met but no matter how slowly I tried to go below 20 mg w/d would start.

I have heard this a lot from some of my friends too. Personally, I have not been that low.
What worked for them is very slow tapering….maybe 1 mg every two weeks. You might have to even go slower than that.
Will your clinic let you have enough control of your detox that you can say you need to stop for a while until comfort level goes up?
This disease is a BITCH isn’t it?

He thinks I am bipolar and like I said I have tried all the antidepressants and some like Depakoat and Effexor make me hallucinate – bad ones along with bad dreams.

If you are bipolar (manic depressive) you need to be on Lithium. All the antidepressants in the world will not help someone with manic depression. Your body has low lithium levels if you are bipolar/manic depressive.
Do you have a mental health worker or psychiatrist?
If so, I encourage you to let them manage your mental health issues. If they could communicate well with your physician now that would be ideal and would help you all! It would free your Doctor up where he could concentrate on your addiction, Hep C, etc., etc.

Also, back to your back….if you haven’t had a MRI, ask for one. Your back pain is not going to go away until the cause, which I feel is pinched nerve, is treated.

Look forward to hearing what you decide.
Peace, Callie

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] thoughts at my grandmother’s funeral
Date: June 22, 2004 at 9:25:49 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 6/22/2004 4:13:01 PM Central Daylight Time, jimhadey3@yahoo.com writes:
I would rather have my appendix out than cold turkey a $20 day habit.

Hell yes!!!!!!Me too!!!!!!!! I would trade that off anytime! Hell, take my gall bladder, uterus…whatever if it will take the withdrawal symptoms away!!!!
Callie

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: June 22, 2004 at 9:24:00 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 6/22/2004 3:54:42 PM Central Daylight Time, jimhadey3@yahoo.com writes:
I doubt it since my back pain which is why I am on disability, some days I limp and the pain goes from my lower back down the butt, leg and out the foot.  Other times it radiates upwards and goes into spasm.

I would wager my next two paychecks that you have a herniated or bulging disc pinching a nerve in your lumbar area. Have you had a MRI, x-rays or maybe a CAT scan?
Your description is very classic of pinched nerve which can be treated in physical therapy or as last resort, surgery.

BTW, I could get down to 20 mg of met but no matter how slowly I tried to go below 20 mg w/d would start.

I have heard this a lot from some of my friends too. Personally, I have not been that low.
What worked for them is very slow tapering….maybe 1 mg every two weeks. You might have to even go slower than that.
Will your clinic let you have enough control of your detox that you can say you need to stop for a while until comfort level goes up?
This disease is a BITCH isn’t it?

He thinks I am bipolar and like I said I have tried all the antidepressants and some like Depakoat and Effexor make me hallucinate – bad ones along with bad dreams.

If you are bipolar (manic depressive) you need to be on Lithium. All the antidepressants in the world will not help someone with manic depression. Your body has low lithium levels if you are bipolar/manic depressive.
Do you have a mental health worker or psychiatrist?
If so, I encourage you to let them manage your mental health issues. If they could communicate well with your physician now that would be ideal and would help you all! It would free your Doctor up where he could concentrate on your addiction, Hep C, etc., etc.

Also, back to your back….if you haven’t had a MRI, ask for one. Your back pain is not going to go away until the cause, which I feel is pinched nerve, is treated.

Look forward to hearing what you decide.
Peace, Callie

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: June 22, 2004 at 7:51:52 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I do not believe that any doctor in the US would write rxs for buprenorphine
to treat depression.  As for the 30 patient limit, the Congress has just voted
to increase that to 300 but, the senate still has to vote on it.  However,
that does not appear to be an issue with your doctor.

You can have your doctor take a look at http://buprenorphine.samhsa.gov/ as
it will give him information on the 8 hour training he would have to take to
prescribe buprenorphine for chemical dependence issues.  There is also a
physician locator on the same page.

To my surprise I could not locate a pharmaceutical preparation of hydrocodone
without an additive.  You can contact me off list but, what state is your
liver in?  How are your liver enzyme levels?  Have you had a biopsy?  Do you know
your viral load?  What you should know about hcv is that more people die with
it than from it.

Howard

In a message dated 6/22/04 3:54:31 PM, jimhadey3@yahoo.com writes:

You helped somewhat, there is not much that I can do.  There is a law that
doc can use medicine for off label use.  For example they sometime will
give anti-seizure or anti psychotics meads for depression.  Maybe they
can give me bupe for depression?  However, I don’t know if they can do
that.  A max of 30 people is silly as is many of the U.S. laws.  I also
have the problem of wondering if bupe will work with the Lortab and if
it does will the Doc go for it.  The doc is wonderful, he is not a pill
pusher but he allows me a 10 mg ever 4 hours or 6 per day plus he gives
me sleeping pills.  You can’t ask for much more from a family doc.  Many
docs will make you go to a pain clinic before giving out that much Lortab.
I really do not want to be greedy.  For you guys taking Lortab it usually
comes with with 500 to 650mg of Tylenol.  And I have hep C.  I know some
of you guys have hep C so let me call your attention to a 10/325 (10mg
hydrocodone and 325 Tylenol)  It can be found on
drugstore.com and some other pharmacies.  I called it to my docs attention
and he wrote it for me, many docs get pissed if make suggestions like that.
You can go to drugstore.com and look up hydrocodone and then maybe other
types of hydrocodone.  I can talk to my doc about most anything but I am
afraid to ask for that.  Just like if you ask for dillies (Dilaudid) it’s
see ya later, I tried to help you and your just trying to get high.  He
knows my past and knows that I was a user, when he how I got hep C I told
he outright probably shooting up dope in the 60’s.  I was honest and he
knows that if I am taking 60 mg of Lortab a day I am dependent and will
go through w/d if suddenly taken off, we have talked about it.

On a rainy day I go through hell and sometimes take maybe 8 pills but am
still in pain.  On a better day I can get by on four, however after taking
6 pills a day I can not go below four because I feel some w/d plus the
depression.  He thinks I am bi-polar and like I said I have tried all the
antidepressants and some like Depakoat and Effexor make me hallucinate
– bad ones along with bad dreams.  Like a dream where I had to go into
a room and kill my dad who was in a wheel chair.  The lady in Texas who
drowned her kids was on several antidepressants some which were not to
be taken together because one stops the metabolizing of the other.  The
Columbine high kid students were on some kind of antidepressants.  I have
tried the tri-cyclics, SSRI, Welbutrin, Zolof, and Prozac etc. and they
all have VERY bad affects.

As of now I think my best bet would be to lower my dose of Lortab and keep
on praying that I quit the heroin.  By old standards I don’t use much maybe
$ 30 to $ 60 per week, but the stuff is strong.  Since you seem well versed
and knowledgeable, I got the depression info from this link
http://balder.prohosting.com/~adhpage/bupe.html
if you or anybody else has the same problem and are interested.  Note that
it was a doc who got strung out on dillies and had depression.  His story
is MUCH like mine.  Patient 1 who feels depressed and low energy.  I have
mentioned the low energy, chronic all the way, and some docs do not believe
in CFS, but it could be the Hep C that is giving me the low energy.  I
have often worked 80 hours weeks, now I can’t work 40 – that hurts.  You
know the feeling or know others that do.  It makes you feel like a bum,
lazy, good for nothing low self esteem, etc.

So, if the doc can write them for depression – GREAT.  If he can’t there
is no use in bringing up the matter.  Can I quit opiates completely, I
doubt it since my back pain which is why I am on disability, some days
I limp and the pain goes from my lower back down the butt, leg and out
the foot.  Other times it radiates upwards and goes into spasm.

If the doc said I will take you off the Lortabs and give you bute for pain
and depression I would give it a try.    BTW, I could get down to 20 mg
of met but no matter how slowly I tried to go below 20 mg w/d would start.
Seems like a hard solution.  Thanks for your help.  Guess I will pray
for an answer.  And read this forum since many of us are all in the same
boat.  Damn, I wish I could get Ibogaine, another silly U.S. law.

Thanks for answering and your input,

– JIM

HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 6/22/04 8:56:13 AM, jimhadey3@yahoo.com writes:

I have a question that maybe one of you could help me with. Is it easier
to quit bupe than met? In the past I have found met impossible w/o using
heroin. So I do not want to go back to something like that. Plus the
met clinics here in Michigan are rotten. Sometimes I do heroin daily and
sometime I can get by with doing it a couple of times a week and use my
Lortab to combat pain and w/d, honest I do have severe pain.

Now, if I could go on bupe that might help for I was reading an article
that it helps with depression. After using for 40 years off and on it
seems ones body no longer makes endorphins and such. Also, things like
Paxil, and Prozac, Zoloft etc. etc. don’t work for me.

Or should I continue to take my Lortab and try to slowly cut down to maybe
10 – 20 mg per day. Which I was able to do once. Right, once in the
last 10 years. I really don’t know much about bupe but was reading about
some people having problems getting off of it. I remember in the 60’s
met was suppose to be eaiser to get off of than the heroin. No one I know
will go along with that. All but one or two people were able to kick met
w/o being in jail or such.

So I guess it comes down to trying to detox using Lortab (which I never
abused – if you take it every day you will not get high) or trying the
bupe which I think is about $400 a month at a clinic or Doctors office,
I’ll have to ask my buddy.

Thanks for any help you can give me on this.

There are indications that buprenorphine is easier to quit than methadone

but, methadone is not hard to quit if you slowly taper. Buprenorphine should
be
faster to quit based on the doses being taken. Most methadone clinics do
suck
and your treatment as a methadone patient leaves much to be desired.

There are a few key issues. One is that lortabs contain tylenol and that
is
liver toxic. The second is if you want out of illicit drug taking, heroin
for
instance. Becoming a buprenorphine patient will label you as a person with

an opiate dependence disorder. Also you will have to evaluate the doctor
who
will rx buprenorphine to inform yourself whether he/she is following a
practice
of maintaining their patients or taperingtapering older patients on a regular

basis to take in new patients. This is particularly a problem at this time

since the law only allows a doctor to have 30 buprenorphine patients at
a time
and the new patients are charged heaver intake fees and are worth more
to the
doctor than stabilized patients.

What dose of methadone were you on? And, the only way to see how you will

respond to buprenorphine is to try it.

Well, these are some discussion points. What do you think?

Howard

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] thoughts at my grandmother’s funeral
Date: June 22, 2004 at 5:12:02 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Sean,

Your doing GREAT.  You are trying hard and have the support of everyone.  I wish you the best and include you in my prayers.  Most of us have been through what you have been through.  A person said the other day that a doc said to her/him that w/d is only uncomfortable.  Yes, so is being in a wheel chair.  Saying that is an understatement.  I would rather have my appendix out than cold turkey a $20 day habit.  That’s how much it hurts and how uncomfortable it is.  If it was easy to kick drugs and alcohol why do people still drink when their a diabetic and are having their feet amputated and have their liver destroyed?   Some people lose a lung but keep smoking cigarettes.  Yes, some docs are smart asses.  If kicking is so easy why do so many relapse?

Keep it up, we are all with you buddy.

– JIM

UUSEAN@aol.com wrote:

Hi Randy and Alison,

Thanks for your kind words.   Today has been bitch “urge wise.”  This list always helps pull me back though form the Dark Master.

Sean

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete – You start. We finish.

From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: June 22, 2004 at 4:53:23 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Howard,

You helped somewhat, there is not much that I can do.  There is a law that doc can use medicine for off label use.  For example they sometime will give anti-seizure or anti psychotics meads for depression.  Maybe they can give me bupe for depression?  However, I don’t know if they can do that.  A max of 30 people is silly as is many of the U.S. laws.  I also have the problem of wondering if bupe will work with the Lortab and if it does will the Doc go for it.  The doc is wonderful, he is not a pill pusher but he allows me a 10 mg ever 4 hours or 6 per day plus he gives me sleeping pills.  You can’t ask for much more from a family doc.  Many docs will make you go to a pain clinic before giving out that much Lortab.  I really do not want to be greedy.  For you guys taking Lortab it usually comes with with 500 to 650mg of Tylenol.  And I have hep C.  I know some of you guys have hep C so let me call your attention to a 10/325 (10mg hydrocodone and 325 Tylenol)  It can be found on drugstore.com and some other pharmacies.  I called it to my docs attention and he wrote it for me, many docs get pissed if make suggestions like that.  You can go to drugstore.com and look up hydrocodone and then maybe other types of hydrocodone.  I can talk to my doc about most anything but I am afraid to ask for that.  Just like if you ask for dillies (Dilaudid) it’s see ya later, I tried to help you and your just trying to get high.  He knows my past and knows that I was a user, when he how I got hep C I told he outright probably shooting up dope in the 60’s.  I was honest and he knows that if I am taking 60 mg of Lortab a day I am dependent and will go through w/d if suddenly taken off, we have talked about it.

On a rainy day I go through hell and sometimes take maybe 8 pills but am still in pain.  On a better day I can get by on four, however after taking 6 pills a day I can not go below four because I feel some w/d plus the depression.  He thinks I am bi-polar and like I said I have tried all the antidepressants and some like Depakoat and Effexor make me hallucinate – bad ones along with bad dreams.  Like a dream where I had to go into a room and kill my dad who was in a wheel chair.  The lady in Texas who drowned her kids was on several antidepressants some which were not to be taken together because one stops the metabolizing of the other.  The Columbine high kid students were on some kind of antidepressants.  I have tried the tri-cyclics, SSRI, Welbutrin, Zolof, and Prozac etc. and they all have VERY bad affects.

As of now I think my best bet would be to lower my dose of Lortab and keep on praying that I quit the heroin.  By old standards I don’t use much maybe $ 30 to $ 60 per week, but the stuff is strong.  Since you seem well versed and knowledgeable, I got the depression info from this link http://balder.prohosting.com/~adhpage/bupe.html if you or anybody else has the same problem and are interested.  Note that it was a doc who got strung out on dillies and had depression.  His story is MUCH like mine.  Patient 1 who feels depressed and low energy.  I have mentioned the low energy, chronic all the way, and some docs do not believe in CFS, but it could be the Hep C that is giving me the low energy.  I have often worked 80 hours weeks, now I can’t work 40 – that hurts.  You know the feeling or know others that do.  It makes you feel like a bum, lazy, good for nothing low self esteem, etc.

So, if the doc can write them for depression – GREAT.  If he can’t there is no use in bringing up the matter.  Can I quit opiates completely, I doubt it since my back pain which is why I am on disability, some days I limp and the pain goes from my lower back down the butt, leg and out the foot.  Other times it radiates upwards and goes into spasm.

If the doc said I will take you off the Lortabs and give you bute for pain and depression I would give it a try.    BTW, I could get down to 20 mg of met but no matter how slowly I tried to go below 20 mg w/d would start.  Seems like a hard solution.  Thanks for your help.  Guess I will pray for an answer.  And read this forum since many of us are all in the same boat.  Damn, I wish I could get Ibogaine, another silly U.S. law.

Thanks for answering and your input,

– JIM

HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 6/22/04 8:56:13 AM, jimhadey3@yahoo.com writes:

>I have a question that maybe one of you could help me with. Is it easier
>to quit bupe than met? In the past I have found met impossible w/o using
>heroin. So I do not want to go back to something like that. Plus the
>met clinics here in Michigan are rotten. Sometimes I do heroin daily and
>sometime I can get by with doing it a couple of times a week and use my
>Lortab to combat pain and w/d, honest I do have severe pain.
>
>Now, if I could go on bupe that might help for I was reading an article
>that it helps with depression. After using for 40 years off and on it
>seems ones body no longer makes endorphins and such. Also, things like
>Paxil, and Prozac, Zoloft etc. etc. don’t work for me.
>
>Or should I continue to take my Lortab and try to slowly cut down to maybe
>10 – 20 mg per day. Which I was able to do once. Right, once in the
>last 10 years. I really don’t know much about bupe but was reading about
>some people having problems getting off of it. I remember in the 60’s
>met was suppose to be eaiser to get off of than the heroin. No one I know
>will go along with that. All but one or two people were able to kick met
>w/o being in jail or such.
>
>So I guess it comes down to trying to detox using Lortab (which I never
>abused – if you take it every day you will not get high) or trying the
>bupe which I think is about $400 a month at a clinic or Doctors office,
>I’ll have to ask my buddy.
>
>Thanks for any help you can give me on this.

There are indications that buprenorphine is easier to quit than methadone
but, methadone is not hard to quit if you slowly taper. Buprenorphine should be
faster to quit based on the doses being taken. Most methadone clinics do suck
and your treatment as a methadone patient leaves much to be desired.

There are a few key issues. One is that lortabs contain tylenol and that is
liver toxic. The second is if you want out of illicit drug taking, heroin for
instance. Becoming a buprenorphine patient will label you as a person with
an opiate dependence disorder. Also you will have to evaluate the doctor who
will rx buprenorphine to inform yourself whether he/she is following a practice
of maintaining their patients or taperingtapering older patients on a regular
basis to take in new patients. This is particularly a problem at this time
since the law only allows a doctor to have 30 buprenorphine patients at a time
and the new patients are charged heaver intake fees and are worth more to the
doctor than stabilized patients.

What dose of methadone were you on? And, the only way to see how you will
respond to buprenorphine is to try it.

Well, these are some discussion points. What do you think?

Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete – You start. We finish.

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] thoughts at my grandmother’s funeral
Date: June 22, 2004 at 4:21:45 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Randy and Alison,

Thanks for your kind words.   Today has been bitch “urge wise.”  This list always helps pull me back though form the Dark Master.

Sean

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Bush Projecting?
Date: June 22, 2004 at 3:15:31 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I read that Reagan always had extra time to meet with Alzheimers groups.

Bush, the dry-drunk.

I wonder how he’d respond to an Ibo session.

actually I’d like to see his entire regime get treated. now those visions would be… interesting.

_.dh

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From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Bush Projecting?
Date: June 22, 2004 at 2:21:02 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

 

>> -What ticks me off about left winged journalism so often is that it employs
>> the same fear tactics that mainstream/right winged media uses. “Bust Plans
>> to Screen Whole Population” is a blatant “Big Brother is Coming” tactic
>> that is used to rally dissent amongst the people. No doubt that Bush is a
>> scary motherfukker in many of his policies, but c’mon.

What gets me is that no one has pointed out the obvious implications of the mass screening taken together with my other post, the one about Bush being indecisive, paranoid, and delusional — that he’s PROJECTING his own mental illness onto everyone else!

I read that Reagan always had extra time to meet with Alzheimers groups.

Dana/cnw

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] [OT] bushgame
Date: June 22, 2004 at 1:50:17 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.emogame.com/bushgame.html

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: June 22, 2004 at 1:30:34 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 6/22/04 11:01:34 AM, Sapphirestardus@aol.com writes:

Hello Howard. I wanted to know something re: endorphins. I’ve heard from
many
addicts that using any opiate for a long time depletes your endorphin
reserves and atrophies that part of the brain responsible for producing
them. From the research I’ve done, there is no evidence of this at all. It
is possible
your brain would suspend it’s production much as taking steroids (in large
doses)
and the testicles suspend production of testosterone. What is the story
with this?

Julian,

I am drawing a blank today.  So I posted the question and am hoping for a
response from someone who has generally shown themself to be knowledgeable in
this area to http://atwatchdog.org/forums

I will keep you informed.

Howard

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From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Bush Plans to Screen Whole Population…
Date: June 22, 2004 at 12:20:37 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You nailed this one! I am just as turned off to left as I am to the right. As a matter of fact it seems any allegiance to any one group and their “DOGMA” is a frightening thought. To me, the only true logical and healthy outlook is to be completely devoted to not being devoted. Just be independant! Take every issue as it comes and deal with it. To subscribe to a set philosophy based on belonging to a specific ‘party’ is not only ignorant but look at history and see what political and religious dogma have done to destroy good cultures and good people…………..

Julian

From: “Leah martian” <martian_9@graffiti.net>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: Bush Plans to Screen Whole Population…
Date: June 22, 2004 at 12:06:15 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I forwarded this to a friend who is studying psychology and he had an interesting reply….just wanted to share it with the list!

-What ticks me off about left winged journalism so often is that it employs
the same fear tactics that mainstream/right winged media uses. “Bust Plans
to Screen Whole Population” is a blatant “Big Brother is Coming” tactic
that is used to rally dissent amongst the people. No doubt that Bush is a
scary motherfukker in many of his policies, but c’mon. From reading all the
goverment files related to this matter, it looks like screening means
having parents consent to have their kids complete an assessment tool that
would be looked at by a mental health professional working with the school
to see if any type of services should be provided for the child. That
doesn’t sound so bad. Of course things could change if parents were not
educated about the process or if they are coerced into signing the consent
forms. But that’s more of a local issue.

It should be acknowledged that there are many problems with the mental
health system. There is definitely an over-diagnosis of adhd amongst
children these days. This often results in overmedication of youth and
disregard for socio-cultural factors contributing to children’s
difficulties in school and developing strong, healthy relationships.
Parental lack of involvement (usually due to financial constraints and
sometimes their own emotional/behavioral difficulties; eg depression,
substance abuse) make it difficult for children to get the support and
guidance they need in a world filled with fear, consumerism, sexual
exploitation and violence.

Over-diagnosis and over-medication are problems that not only face
children, but face adults as well. The community standard of care has been
in this direction for a hundred years as mental disorder has been seen
predominantly through a medical lens. It takes well trained, thoughtful and
open minded mental health workers to correctly make diagnoses and
medication referrals. It is easy to blame government or pharmaceutical
companies. Trained individuals are the ones making the final choices.
Hopefully their schooling is providing this information to them. For an
interesting article on the movement towards positive psychology see:
http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/seligman04/seligman_index.html

What our mental health care system needs is increased availability of
services to communities and to low income individuals. This is achieved
through building community mental health centers and increasing funding to
those that already exist. The mental health community centers that I’ve
been working for in the past 8 years have all been hurting for funding, and
as a result they cannot meet the needs of the population they aim to serve.
For example, at that LBGT center that I told you about yesterday, we would
be in constant negotiation with clients over fees, when they obviously
couldn’t afford to pay what we were asking. Limited situations called for
city, county and state assistance, and fairly often we had to distort the
applications in order to get the criteria met for these people in need of
services. It is important to remember that 20%+ of homeless people you see
on the streets or in shelters have some sort of mental illness and/or
substance abuse problem and next to none of them receive services.

Michael F. Hogan, Ph.D. the Chairman, President’s New Freedom Commission on
Mental Health in his letter to the president states: “Too often, today’s
system simply manages symptoms and accepts long-term disability.” Therefore
it is my belief that this committee is well informed about the state of
mental health these days. Medication alone is only a management system and
will not lead to recovery. We need to recognize, that often, medication is
an essential part of treatment, that give clients the opportunities to work
in therapy towards their goals. The commission’s vision statement further
exemplifies their understanding of this: “We envision a future when
everyone with a mental illness will recover, a future when mental illnesses
can be prevented or cured, a future when mental illnesses are detected
early, and a future when everyone with a mental illness at any stage of
life has access to effective treatment and supports – essentials for
living, working, learning, and participating fully in the community.”

In this day and age, it is easy for us to quickly get on Bush’s case
regarding everything he does. He’s a scary guy, no doubt. However, the
Commision outlines the limitations of our current system very well –
“1)Stigma that surrounds mental illnesses, 2)Unfair treatment limitations
and financial requirements placed on mental health benefits in private
health insurance, and 3) The fragmented mental health service delivery system.”

Furthermore, the Commission gives reasonable solutions to the challenges
that we currently face – “First, services and treatments must be consumer
and family centered, geared to give consumers real and meaningful choices
about treatment options and providers – not oriented to the requirements of
bureaucracies. Second, care must focus on increasing consumers’ ability to
successfully cope with life’s challenges, on facilitating recovery, and on
building resilience, not just on managing symptoms.”

It is my belief that increasing our funding to community mental health
organizations would be very beneficial to those in need. By integrating
mental health into schools (by having professionals present to assist
teachers, principals, students and parents in the challenges they face) we
would be able to facilitate growth in our children. By having more
community centers that were adequately funded and staffed with well trained
professionals, we would provide the services necessary, either using or not
using pharmaceuticals (whatever is decided on a case by case basis) so that
clients could live happy, healthy, productive lives that would eventually
be treatment free. In the end, I bet the money for this program is cut
severely and most of these programs won’t get enough funding to make a
significant difference in the population they serve, let alone the
implementation of new policies and programs.

for the whole july 2003 report by the commision see:
http://www.mentalhealthcommission.gov/reports/FinalReport/toc.html


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From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: June 22, 2004 at 11:59:42 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello Howard. I wanted to know something re: endorphins. I’ve heard from many addicts that using any opiate for a long time depletes your endorphin reserves and atrophies that part of the brain responsible for producing them. From the research I’ve done, there is no evidence of this at all. It is possible your brain would suspend it’s production much as taking steroids (in large doses) and the testicles suspend production of testosterone. What is the story with this?

Thank You,

Julian

From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] hahaha
Date: June 22, 2004 at 11:56:45 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every three
seconds… Leah martian
Something else from the list that made me chuckle

loveleah

ahaha… brilliant!

it would be hilarious… if it wasn’t so sad…. =/

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From: “Leah martian” <martian_9@graffiti.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] hahaha
Date: June 22, 2004 at 11:53:13 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Something else from the list that made me chuckle

loveleah

Thought you might find this funny, of course the GOP stands for person
freedom and states rights. Unless it’s school prayer, abortion or mm.

Things you have to believe to be a Republican today

1. Being a drug addict is a moral failing and a crime, unless you’re a
conservative radio host. Then it’s an illness and you need our prayers for
your recovery.

2. The United States should get out of the United Nations, and our highest
national priority is enforcing U.N. resolutions against Iraq.

3. Government should relax regulation of Big Business and Big Money but
crack down on individuals who use marijuana to relieve the pain of illness.

4. “Standing Tall for America'” means firing your workers and moving their
jobs to India.

5. A woman can’t be trusted with decisions about her own body, but
multi-national corporations can make decisions affecting all mankind without
regulation.

6. Jesus loves you, and shares your hatred of homosexuals and Hillary
Clinton.

7. The best way to improve military morale is to praise the troops in
speeches while slashing veterans’ benefits and combat pay.

8. Group sex and drug use are degenerate sins unless you someday run for
governor of California as a Republican.

9. If condoms are kept out of schools, adolescents won’t have sex.

10. A good way to fight terrorism is to belittle our long-time allies, then
demand their cooperation and money.

11. HMOs and insurance companies have the best interests of the public at
heart.

12. Providing health care to all Iraqis is sound policy. Providing health
care to all Americans is socialism.

13. Global warming and tobacco’s link to cancer are junk science, but
creationism should be taught in schools.

14. Saddam was a good guy when Reagan armed him, a bad guy when Bush’s daddy
made war on him, a good guy when Cheney did business with him and a bad guy
when Bush needed a “we can’t find Bin Laden” diversion.

15. A president lying about an extramarital affair is an impeachable
offense. A president lying to enlist support for a war in which thousands
die is solid defense policy.

16. Government should limit itself to the powers named in the Constitution,
which include banning gay marriages and censoring the Internet.

17. The public has a right to know about Hillary’s cattle trades, but George
Bush’s driving record is none of our business.

18. You support states’ rights, which means Attorney General John Ashcroft
can tell states what local voter initiatives they have a right to adopt.

9. What Bill Clinton did in the 1960s is of vital national interest, but
what Bush did in the ’80s is irrelevant.

20. Trade with Cuba is wrong because the country is communist, but trade
with China and Vietnam is vital to a spirit of international harmony.

_________________________________________________________________
Watch the online reality show Mixed Messages with a friend and enter to win
a trip to NY
http://www.msnmessenger-download.click-url.com/go/onm00200497ave/direct/01/

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Leah Martin, Follow-up Coordinator
The Iboga Therapy House
Vancouver, BC


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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: June 22, 2004 at 10:24:10 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 6/22/04 8:56:13 AM, jimhadey3@yahoo.com writes:

I have a question that maybe one of you could help me with.  Is it easier
to quit bupe than met?  In the past I have found met impossible w/o using
heroin.  So I do not want to go back to something like that.  Plus the
met clinics here in Michigan are rotten.  Sometimes I do heroin daily and
sometime I can get by with doing it a couple of times a week and use my
Lortab to combat pain and w/d, honest I do have severe pain.

Now, if I could go on bupe that might help for I was reading an article
that it helps with depression.  After using for 40 years off and on it
seems ones body no longer makes endorphins and such.  Also, things like
Paxil, and Prozac, Zoloft etc. etc. don’t work for me.

Or should I continue to take my Lortab and try to slowly cut down to maybe
10 – 20 mg per day.  Which I was able to do once.   Right, once in the
last 10 years.  I really don’t know much about bupe but was reading about
some people having problems getting off of it.  I remember in the 60’s
met was suppose to be eaiser to get off of than the heroin.  No one I know
will go along with that.  All but one or two people were able to kick met
w/o being in jail or such.

So I  guess it comes down to trying to detox using Lortab (which I never
abused – if you take it every day you will not get high) or trying the
bupe which I think is about $400 a month at a clinic or Doctors office,
I’ll have to ask my buddy.

Thanks for any help you can give me on this.

There are indications that buprenorphine is easier to quit than methadone
but, methadone is not hard to quit if you slowly taper.  Buprenorphine should be
faster to quit based on the doses being taken.  Most methadone clinics do suck
and your treatment as a methadone patient leaves much to be desired.

There are a few key issues.  One is that lortabs contain tylenol and that is
liver toxic.  The second is if you want out of illicit drug taking, heroin for
instance.  Becoming a buprenorphine patient will label you as a person with
an opiate dependence disorder.  Also you will have to evaluate the doctor who
will rx buprenorphine to inform yourself whether he/she is following a practice
of maintaining their patients or taperingtapering older patients on a regular
basis to take in new patients.  This is particularly a problem at this time
since the law only allows a doctor to have 30 buprenorphine patients at a time
and the new patients are charged heaver intake fees and are worth more to the
doctor than stabilized patients.

What dose of methadone were you on?  And, the only way to see how you will
respond to buprenorphine is to try it.

Well, these are some discussion points.  What do you think?

Howard

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] should I try bupe
Date: June 22, 2004 at 9:55:12 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi All,

I have a questioon that maybe one of you could help me with.  Is it eaiser to quit bupe than met?  In the past I have found met impossable w/o using heroin.  So I do not want to go back to something like that.  Plus the met clinics here in Michigan are rotten.  Sometimes I do heroin daily and sometime I can get by with doing it a couple of times a week and use my Lortab to combat pain and w/d, honest I do have severe pain.

Now, if I could go on bupe that might help for I was reading an article that it helps with depressinon.  After using for 40 years off and on it seems ones body no longer makes endorphins and such.  Also, things like Paxil, and Prozac, Zoloft etc. etc. don’t work for me.

Or should I continue to take my Lortab and try to slowly cut down to maybe 10 – 20 mg per day.  Which I was able to do once.   Right, once in the last 10 years.  I really don’t know much about bupe but was reading about some people having problems getting off of it.  I remember in the 60’s met was suppose to be eaiser to get off of than the heroin.  No one I know will go along with that.  All but one or two people were able to kick met w/o being in jail or such.

So I  guess it comes down to trying to detox using Lortab (which I never abused – if you take it every day you will not get high) or trying the bupe which I think is about $400 a month at a clinic or Doctors office, I’ll have to ask my buddy.

Thanks for any help you can give me on this.

– JIM

Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – Send 10MB messages!

From: “Allison Senepart” <paradisepaint@callsouth.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] thoughts at my grandmother’s funeral
Date: June 22, 2004 at 6:07:29 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I lost my grandmother a year old.  She was 86, had looked after me for many years of my life and I loved her dearly.   I tried and succeeded to go to her funeral, especially as I helped carry her coffin without using.  It was so tempting to get out of it for the excuse of being upset but I also heard her voice telling me off for nodding off in the middle of conversations.  Think it finally sunk through that people care and I care and that I needed to do something about it.  I hope somewhere she knows that I am now doing well or at least I tell myself that and it makes me feel better.  If your gran was anything like mine she would have been an amazing lady.   Take care.  Allison

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Tuesday, 22 June 2004 12:32:00 p.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] thoughts at my grandmother’s funeral
Hello list,

Today as I sat at my grandmother’s funeral, a kind loving woman who died at 87, my mind drifted to all I have been reading about ibogaine and all the junkies who have dies since the ibogaine story was written….and all who have contracted HIV, and of late the huge HEPC situation.

The mother of a dead junkie was at the funeral….a 19 year old cousin of mine who struggling was there…and of course me 20 years struggling with crack, and more recently heroin.  And meanwhile the establishment carries on it’s War on Drugs, and funds Partnership…while more junkies die.

But there is hope!  There are people like you all….there is medical marijuana in San Fran!  Harm reduction is getting more of an ear…my last UU congregation had a drug policy reform group, as part of a national initiave….and you know what?  I felt like getting high on dope all day, but I didn’t read your posts, finished the ibogaine story, and crawled over to the pc type this…I really think if not for the newfound hope I got from this list, I would be using today…but you see there really are people who care about strung out, sick junkies..people like you….i did not shoot dope today.

sean
____________________________________________________
IncrediMail – Email has finally evolved – Click Here

From: “Allison Senepart” <paradisepaint@callsouth.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] thoughts at my grandmother’s funeral
Date: June 22, 2004 at 5:42:43 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Keep on Keeping on.  I know that sleeping works for me.  I take myself off & hibernate which works good and then later I can deal with thinking about exercise and trying to enjoy doing things.  Everyone is so different but I think the main thing is to do whatever works for you.   Anything that helps get over that first worst stage and let you go forward instead of bouncing back & forward.
Best wishes.   Allison

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Tuesday, 22 June 2004 4:13:10 p.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] thoughts at my grandmother’s funeral

sleep, rest, snooze, nap… get as much of this in as possible, and
some exercise, too… walking in the early morning light is especially
good. gets them natural endorphins pumping.

_.dh

> Hi Callie,
>
> Thanks for dropping a line.  As the physical detox gets easier, that
> damn voice in my head gets louder.  But another day over, going to
> sleep now…I have been reading from the ibogaine research that sleep
> is very healing. (as well as from list member).
>
> Sean
>

____________________________________________________
IncrediMail – Email has finally evolved – Click Here

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] thoughts at my grandmother’s funeral
Date: June 22, 2004 at 5:52:11 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I didn’t either Sean. Hearing from you and your success helps keep my head right. All of us struggle with King Kong here I think. Keep strong.                        I love this saying by George Clinton   ” Free your mind and your ass will follow” He struggles too!!!

From: expatbks@oncable.dk
Subject: [ibogaine] Please unsubscribe
Date: June 22, 2004 at 1:43:44 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

please unsubscribe me from the ibogaine list

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] thoughts at my grandmother’s funeral
Date: June 22, 2004 at 12:12:57 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

sleep, rest, snooze, nap… get as much of this in as possible, and some exercise, too… walking in the early morning light is especially good. gets them natural endorphins pumping.

_.dh

Hi Callie,

Thanks for dropping a line.  As the physical detox gets easier, that damn voice in my head gets louder.  But another day over, going to sleep now…I have been reading from the ibogaine research that sleep is very healing. (as well as from list member).

Sean

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] news information source
Date: June 21, 2004 at 11:29:13 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

my daily haunts…

This List and TruthOut,org

_.dh

On Monday, June 21, 2004, at 04:39 PM, HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

The TO Overview

William Rivers Pitt: ‘Iraq, Israel, Guantánamo’

<A HREF=”http://www.truthout.org/overview.htm”>
http://www.truthout.org/overview.htm</A>

_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/

t r u t h o u t | 06.22

Seymour Hersh | Plan B: Israel Backs Iraqi Kurds

<A HREF=”http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062204A.shtml”>
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062204A.shtml</A>

Military Judge Declares Abu Ghraib a Crime Scene

<A HREF=”http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062204B.shtml”>
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062204B.shtml</A>

Guantánamo: Did Torture Get Good Intelligence?

<A HREF=”http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062204C.shtml”>
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062204C.shtml</A>

Washington Post | Torture Policy

<A HREF=”http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062204D.shtml”>
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062204D.shtml</A>

Report: Bush Fails to Stop Nuclear Spread

<A HREF=”http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062204E.shtml”>
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062204E.shtml</A>

Iraq’s Interim Leader Threatens Crackdown

<A HREF=”http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062204F.shtml”>
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062204F.shtml</A>

Administration Tries to ‘Isolate’ U.N. Population Control

<A HREF=”http://www.truthout.org/environment.shtml”>
http://www.truthout.org/environment.shtml</A>

Jean-Michel Helvig | Targeting Saudi Arabia

<A HREF=”http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062204H.shtml”>
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062204H.shtml</A>

Iraqi Oil Pays, GOP Loyalists Get Jobs

<A HREF=”http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062204I.shtml”>
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062204I.shtml</A>

Supreme Court Sides with HMOs on Patient Suits

<A HREF=”http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062204J.shtml”>
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062204J.shtml</A>

Boston Globe | Stop the Draft

<A HREF=”http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062204K.shtml”>
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062204K.shtml</A>

Native American Vote Might Swing Elections

<A HREF=”http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062204L.shtml”>
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062204L.shtml</A>

Click to SUBSCRIBE -> <A HREF=”mailto:join-three-to@lists.truthout.org”>
mailto:join-three-to@lists.truthout.org</A>

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http://www.truthout.org</A>

_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/

t r u t h o u t | 06.21

Classified Report | Rape at Abu Ghraib

<A HREF=”http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/0621041.shtml”>
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/0621041.shtml</A>

William Rivers Pitt | Freedom, Incorporated

<A HREF=”http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062104A.shtml”>
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062104A.shtml</A>

White House Counsel Questioned in CIA Leak Probe

<A HREF=”http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062104B.shtml”>
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062104B.shtml</A>

9/11 Commission Challenges Bush, Cheney Credibility

<A HREF=”http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062104C.shtml”>
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062104C.shtml</A>

Saudi Arabia, Pakistan Aided Bin Laden

<A HREF=”http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062104D.shtml”>
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062104D.shtml</A>

Missile Strike By U.S. Kills 22 Civilians in Iraq

<A HREF=”http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062104E.shtml”>
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062104E.shtml</A>

Enron Prosecutors Seeking Ken Lay Indictment

<A HREF=”http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062104F.shtml”>
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062104F.shtml</A>

Western Drought Could Be Worst in 500 Years

<A HREF=”http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062104G.shtml”>
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062104G.shtml</A>

Pierre Rosanvallon | The Myth of the Passive Citizen

<A HREF=”http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062104H.shtml”>
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062104H.shtml</A>

J. Sri Raman | India and Pakistan: Living with Neighbor and Nukes

<A HREF=”http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062104I.shtml”>
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062104I.shtml</A>

Gerald Shargel | Sheik’s Lawyer Fights Guilt by Association

<A HREF=”http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062104J.shtml”>
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062104J.shtml</A>

Greg Palast | 1.9 Million Black Votes Not Counted in 2000

<A HREF=”http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062104K.shtml”>
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062104K.shtml</A>

Terry Jones | This Won’t Hurt Much

<A HREF=”http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062104L.shtml”>
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062104L.shtml</A>

Click to SUBSCRIBE -> <A HREF=”mailto:join-three-to@lists.truthout.org”>
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http://www.truthout.org</A>

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\]=———————————————————————=[/

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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] thoughts at my grandmother’s funeral
Date: June 21, 2004 at 11:28:26 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Callie,

Thanks for dropping a line.  As the physical detox gets easier, that damn voice in my head gets louder.  But another day over, going to sleep now…I have been reading from the ibogaine research that sleep is very healing. (as well as from list member).

Sean

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Bush Plans to Screen Whole Population…
Date: June 21, 2004 at 11:28:25 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Monday, June 21, 2004, at 04:33 PM, sara119@xs4all.nl wrote:

people change very quickly, one day good other day bad.
Bush has to fix it,after all he is your country”non elected president”.

are you kidding? Bush fix anything except what suits his greedy ends?

which one is sick? the one who make it happen or the one who let it happen?

You have a point. True, many Americans are basically sleepwalking, much like the Dutch, but in a much more naive, ignorant and arrogant way.

Unfortunately those who “could” do something are too concerned about their future careers in politrixxx to stick their head out and call for an all out impeachment of the entire BushCo Regime. They certainly qualify. Its the least they deserve.

It has mostly to do with the Governments mouthpiece, the corporate media, which is controlled by an elite few. Actually i think all major broadcasting companies are controlled by GE (General Electric). You know, the folks who bring good things to living… as of late, Depleted Uranium Weapons… they are by far the worlds leading manufacturer of Weapons of Mass Destruction. The media is, of course, a Weapon of Mass Distraction.

_.dh

/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Bush Plans to Screen Whole Population…
Date: June 21, 2004 at 11:17:21 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Steve,

It really is interesting how states right’s advocates suddenly find a whole new respect for federal power when they are running things.

Sean

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] thoughts at my grandmother’s funeral
Date: June 21, 2004 at 10:40:36 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

….i did not shoot dope today.

Sean, those 6 simple words carry so much meaning! Besides it meaning you did not shoot dope today, after reading of your difficult situation it also means…….”I am stronger than dope TODAY”, “I made an important choice today”, “I dealt with very difficult emotions and thoughts without dope today”, “I had introspection today”, “I thought of other things besides dope today”, “I looked outside of myself today”,”I have hope today!”, “I am lovable and I am loved today”.
It does mean a lot to me that you did not use. To read about all the issues you have on your plate and to read your statement that you did not do a lick of dope gives me hope!
Hang in Sean! Keep in touch!
Callie

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] news information source
Date: June 21, 2004 at 10:39:44 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The TO Overview

William Rivers Pitt: ‘Iraq, Israel, Guantánamo’

<A HREF=”http://www.truthout.org/overview.htm”>
http://www.truthout.org/overview.htm</A>

_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/

t r u t h o u t | 06.22

Seymour Hersh | Plan B: Israel Backs Iraqi Kurds

<A HREF=”http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062204A.shtml”>
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062204A.shtml</A>

Military Judge Declares Abu Ghraib a Crime Scene

<A HREF=”http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062204B.shtml”>
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062204B.shtml</A>

Guantánamo: Did Torture Get Good Intelligence?

<A HREF=”http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062204C.shtml”>
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062204C.shtml</A>

Washington Post | Torture Policy

<A HREF=”http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062204D.shtml”>
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062204D.shtml</A>

Report: Bush Fails to Stop Nuclear Spread

<A HREF=”http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062204E.shtml”>
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062204E.shtml</A>

Iraq’s Interim Leader Threatens Crackdown

<A HREF=”http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062204F.shtml”>
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062204F.shtml</A>

Administration Tries to ‘Isolate’ U.N. Population Control

<A HREF=”http://www.truthout.org/environment.shtml”>
http://www.truthout.org/environment.shtml</A>

Jean-Michel Helvig | Targeting Saudi Arabia

<A HREF=”http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062204H.shtml”>
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062204H.shtml</A>

Iraqi Oil Pays, GOP Loyalists Get Jobs

<A HREF=”http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062204I.shtml”>
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062204I.shtml</A>

Supreme Court Sides with HMOs on Patient Suits

<A HREF=”http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062204J.shtml”>
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062204J.shtml</A>

Boston Globe | Stop the Draft

<A HREF=”http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062204K.shtml”>
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062204K.shtml</A>

Native American Vote Might Swing Elections

<A HREF=”http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062204L.shtml”>
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062204L.shtml</A>

Click to SUBSCRIBE -> <A HREF=”mailto:join-three-to@lists.truthout.org”>
mailto:join-three-to@lists.truthout.org</A>

Go direct to our HomePage : <A HREF=”http://www.truthout.org”>
http://www.truthout.org</A>

_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/

t r u t h o u t | 06.21

Classified Report | Rape at Abu Ghraib

<A HREF=”http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/0621041.shtml”>
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/0621041.shtml</A>

William Rivers Pitt | Freedom, Incorporated

<A HREF=”http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062104A.shtml”>
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062104A.shtml</A>

White House Counsel Questioned in CIA Leak Probe

<A HREF=”http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062104B.shtml”>
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062104B.shtml</A>

9/11 Commission Challenges Bush, Cheney Credibility

<A HREF=”http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062104C.shtml”>
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062104C.shtml</A>

Saudi Arabia, Pakistan Aided Bin Laden

<A HREF=”http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062104D.shtml”>
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062104D.shtml</A>

Missile Strike By U.S. Kills 22 Civilians in Iraq

<A HREF=”http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062104E.shtml”>
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062104E.shtml</A>

Enron Prosecutors Seeking Ken Lay Indictment

<A HREF=”http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062104F.shtml”>
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062104F.shtml</A>

Western Drought Could Be Worst in 500 Years

<A HREF=”http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062104G.shtml”>
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062104G.shtml</A>

Pierre Rosanvallon | The Myth of the Passive Citizen

<A HREF=”http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062104H.shtml”>
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062104H.shtml</A>

J. Sri Raman | India and Pakistan: Living with Neighbor and Nukes

<A HREF=”http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062104I.shtml”>
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062104I.shtml</A>

Gerald Shargel | Sheik’s Lawyer Fights Guilt by Association

<A HREF=”http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062104J.shtml”>
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062104J.shtml</A>

Greg Palast | 1.9 Million Black Votes Not Counted in 2000

<A HREF=”http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062104K.shtml”>
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062104K.shtml</A>

Terry Jones | This Won’t Hurt Much

<A HREF=”http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062104L.shtml”>
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062104L.shtml</A>

Click to SUBSCRIBE -> <A HREF=”mailto:join-three-to@lists.truthout.org”>
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Go direct to our HomePage : <A HREF=”http://www.truthout.org”>
http://www.truthout.org</A>

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From: sara119@xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Bush Plans to Screen Whole Population…
Date: June 21, 2004 at 10:33:17 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

next is a new “kamf” for those who don’t like to take medication.

people change very quickly, one day good other day bad.
Bush has to fix it,after all he is your country”non elected president”.
which one is sick? the one who make it happen or the one who let it happen?

S

whichis good for your economy.

what is good for the economy often isn’t good for the people. or the
planet for that matter.

Like the NeoCons view that War is good for the economy. -Good for their
bloated off shore bank accounts.

-dh

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] 2nd request
Date: June 21, 2004 at 9:19:32 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 6/21/04 7:56:22 PM, stevenanker@hotmail.com writes:

I asked a friend who took ibogaine for bupe to write about her experience
for the list. From my observation bupe is tougher than methadone to kick
and ibogaine does not work as well for bupe as it does with other opiates,
though it does show efficacy.

Steve,

I would very much look forward to your friend’s report.

Working in methadone patient advocacy I receive many reports indicating
methadone patients switching to buprenorphine for tapering off methadone because it
is easier.  But, every patient is different.  In any case what I was
particular interested in is whether there were adverse medical events due to
bupe/ibogaine interaction.

Howard

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From: “Steven Anker” <stevenanker@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Bush Plans to Screen Whole Population…
Date: June 21, 2004 at 9:12:06 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sean,

Thanks for your posts, your struggle has been an inspiration for us as well. Dana, thanks for posting this alarming article. 1984 and Brave New World were kinda on the mark, eh?

The tradgedy of current drug policy and treatment options continues and people die.

I thought the GOP gets government off the backs of the people!

sean

Thought you might find this funny, of course the GOP stands for person freedom and states rights. Unless it’s school prayer, abortion or mm.

Things you have to believe to be a Republican today

1. Being a drug addict is a moral failing and a crime, unless you’re a conservative radio host. Then it’s an illness and you need our prayers for your recovery.

2. The United States should get out of the United Nations, and our highest national priority is enforcing U.N. resolutions against Iraq.

3. Government should relax regulation of Big Business and Big Money but crack down on individuals who use marijuana to relieve the pain of illness.

4. “Standing Tall for America'” means firing your workers and moving their jobs to India.

5. A woman can’t be trusted with decisions about her own body, but multi-national corporations can make decisions affecting all mankind without regulation.

6. Jesus loves you, and shares your hatred of homosexuals and Hillary Clinton.

7. The best way to improve military morale is to praise the troops in speeches while slashing veterans’ benefits and combat pay.

8. Group sex and drug use are degenerate sins unless you someday run for governor of California as a Republican.

9. If condoms are kept out of schools, adolescents won’t have sex.

10. A good way to fight terrorism is to belittle our long-time allies, then demand their cooperation and money.

11. HMOs and insurance companies have the best interests of the public at heart.

12. Providing health care to all Iraqis is sound policy. Providing health care to all Americans is socialism.

13. Global warming and tobacco’s link to cancer are junk science, but creationism should be taught in schools.

14. Saddam was a good guy when Reagan armed him, a bad guy when Bush’s daddy made war on him, a good guy when Cheney did business with him and a bad guy when Bush needed a “we can’t find Bin Laden” diversion.

15. A president lying about an extramarital affair is an impeachable offense. A president lying to enlist support for a war in which thousands die is solid defense policy.

16. Government should limit itself to the powers named in the Constitution, which include banning gay marriages and censoring the Internet.

17. The public has a right to know about Hillary’s cattle trades, but George Bush’s driving record is none of our business.

18. You support states’ rights, which means Attorney General John Ashcroft can tell states what local voter initiatives they have a right to adopt.

9. What Bill Clinton did in the 1960s is of vital national interest, but what Bush did in the ’80s is irrelevant.

20. Trade with Cuba is wrong because the country is communist, but trade with China and Vietnam is vital to a spirit of international harmony.

_________________________________________________________________
Watch the online reality show Mixed Messages with a friend and enter to win a trip to NY http://www.msnmessenger-download.click-url.com/go/onm00200497ave/direct/01/

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From: “Steven Anker” <stevenanker@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] 2nd request
Date: June 21, 2004 at 8:55:30 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Howard,

I asked a friend who took ibogaine for bupe to write about her experience for the list. From my observation bupe is tougher than methadone to kick and ibogaine does not work as well for bupe as it does with other opiates, though it does show efficacy.

Best,
Steve

I went through ibogaine treatment in April 2003 for buprenorphine dependence.
In addition, I was on numerous prescription drugs, including Zoloft,
Wellbutrin, Elavil and Trazedone, which I wanted to get off of.  Dr. Martin Polanco
(of the Ibogaine Institute in San Diego and Mexico) instructed me to taper off
all the anti-depressants over a 6 week period, prior to doing the ibogaine
treatment.  I did this without any negative reactions or mood swings.  Two weeks
prior to starting ibogaine, I went off the buprenorphine and replaced that
with an opiate-type prescription drug.  I don’t remember what it was called, but
it was stronger than Vicodin, because I needed one of those special triplicate
prescriptions.  All of this was per the instructions of Dr. Polanco, and my
local US doctor.

When I got to Mexico to start the treatment, I had to wait 24-36 hours before
I was administered the ibogaine.  I think I had a fairly typical experience
with ibogaine.  I had visions, including ones of what I guess you could call my
own interpretation of God.  The week after ibogaine was very difficult for
me.  I was very weak, depressed, fatigued and overwhelmed with negative
thoughts.  After a week or two, I took a small dose of buprenorphine, like 0.25 mg,
which was 1/8th of my prior dose.  I don’t chemically understand why such a
small dose could make a difference, but it did.  I felt normal again, I wasn’t so
weak or depressed.  I stayed on 0.25-0.50 mg for a few months.  I felt really
great.  The ibogaine had helped me break through in really important
psychological ways.  I was able to get myself out of a long, bad relationship.  I lost
my job at the same time and felt OK about it.  I look back at that time and
think I felt mildly euphoric.  Maybe I was just feeling what would be normal for
other people, as I have fought depression my entire life.

After a year, I am still on buprenorphine.  I am on 1 mg, a dose less than
prior to the ibogaine treatment.  Although I cannot say that the treatment got
me off the buprenorphine, I will say that I benefited from it.  I received a)
both long and especially short term therapeutic benefits b) got off all those
prescription anti-depressants c) am on a low maintenance dose of buprenorphine.

Denise

_________________________________________________________________
FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/

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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] thoughts at my grandmother’s funeral
Date: June 21, 2004 at 8:30:47 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello list,

Today as I sat at my grandmother’s funeral, a kind loving woman who died at 87, my mind drifted to all I have been reading about ibogaine and all the junkies who have dies since the ibogaine story was written….and all who have contracted HIV, and of late the huge HEPC situation.

The mother of a dead junkie was at the funeral….a 19 year old cousin of mine who struggling was there…and of course me 20 years struggling with crack, and more recently heroin.  And meanwhile the establishment carries on it’s War on Drugs, and funds Partnership…while more junkies die.

But there is hope!  There are people like you all….there is medical marijuana in San Fran!  Harm reduction is getting more of an ear…my last UU congregation had a drug policy reform group, as part of a national initiave….and you know what?  I felt like getting high on dope all day, but I didn’t read your posts, finished the ibogaine story, and crawled over to the pc type this…I really think if not for the newfound hope I got from this list, I would be using today…but you see there really are people who care about strung out, sick junkies..people like you….i did not shoot dope today.

sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Bush Plans to Screen Whole Population…
Date: June 21, 2004 at 8:14:34 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I thought the GOP gets government off the backs of the people!

sean

From: iboga@ziplip.com <iboga@ziplip.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Bush Plans to Screen Whole Population…
Date: June 21, 2004 at 7:19:33 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“So you can see that many things are wrong and painful , that’s why don’t run a way from them
Take your life in your hands and follow your heart.”

—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: 21 Jun 04, 11:25 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Bush Plans to Screen Whole Population…
This really scares me!
I feel the USA is moving towards a very controlling
type of leadership.
I do not want the fucking government knowing my mental health state nor do I want my offspring and their offspring to be evaluated as early as kindergarten for mental illness! Will they force meds on those who ‘fail’ their mental health standards? Maybe not in our lives but this is a huge step towards that! Or even worse yet, divide and group the people in living neighborhoods of people who score close to the same.
Schizophrenics in the South end of the nation, Bipolar citizens in the mid west, agoraphobiacs in Alaska and those showing grandiose thinking and behavior in Washington D.C.!!!!!!!
I am trembling at the thought of wear the USA is headed!
Callie

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Bush Plans to Screen Whole Population…
Date: June 21, 2004 at 6:38:42 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

its a popular term since the bushco regime took over the white house.

but it goes back longer than that.

scary folks, them neocons (new conservatives)

-dh

On Monday, June 21, 2004, at 12:14 PM, Jim Hadey wrote:

Hi Dave,

“NeoCons”, “NeoCons” where did you here that word?  You been going to rense.com or prison planet?

D H <dave@phantom.com> wrote:

> whichis good for your economy.

what is good for the economy often isn’t good for the people. or the
planet for that matter.

Like the NeoCons view that War is good for the economy. -Good for their
bloated off shore bank accounts.

-dh

<image.tiff>

Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – Send 10MB messages!

From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Bush Plans to Screen Whole Population…
Date: June 21, 2004 at 6:14:22 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Dave,

“NeoCons”, “NeoCons” where did you here that word?  You been going to rense.com or prison planet?

D H <dave@phantom.com> wrote:
> whichis good for your economy.

what is good for the economy often isn’t good for the people. or the
planet for that matter.

Like the NeoCons view that War is good for the economy. -Good for their
bloated off shore bank accounts.

-dh

Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – Send 10MB messages!

From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Bush Plans to Screen Whole Population…
Date: June 21, 2004 at 6:00:49 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Callie,

Check out a site rense.com they got great archives and a place called prisonplanet.com
1984 has been here for some time.  They snuck it in so slick people don’t know.  It doesn’t hurt to take a look.

Best to ya,

– JIM

CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
This really scares me!
I feel the USA is moving towards a very controlling
type of leadership.
I do not want the fucking government knowing my mental health state nor do I want my offspring and their offspring to be evaluated as early as kindergarten for mental illness! Will they force meds on those who ‘fail’ their mental health standards? Maybe not in our lives but this is a huge step towards that! Or even worse yet, divide and group the people in living neighborhoods of people who score close to the same.
Schizophrenics in the South end of the nation, Bipolar citizens in the mid west, agoraphobiacs in Alaska and those showing grandiose thinking and behavior in Washington D.C.!!!!!!!
I am trembling at the thought of wear the USA is headed!
Callie

Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – Send 10MB messages!

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Bush Plans to Screen Whole Population…
Date: June 21, 2004 at 2:24:00 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This really scares me!
I feel the USA is moving towards a very controlling
type of leadership.
I do not want the fucking government knowing my mental health state nor do I want my offspring and their offspring to be evaluated as early as kindergarten for mental illness! Will they force meds on those who ‘fail’ their mental health standards? Maybe not in our lives but this is a huge step towards that! Or even worse yet, divide and group the people in living neighborhoods of people who score close to the same.
Schizophrenics in the South end of the nation, Bipolar citizens in the mid west, agoraphobiacs in Alaska and those showing grandiose thinking and behavior in Washington D.C.!!!!!!!
I am trembling at the thought of wear the USA is headed!
Callie

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Hello!
Date: June 21, 2004 at 1:49:31 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jim, thanks for the reply! You had me chuckling out loud!
I went and paid the hospital bill a couple of years ago!
I have been able to pay my bills since getting on Methadone in 1998! lol!
I was just caught way off guard when my boss told me about the garnishment! The visit had been a few years before the garnishment and I truly had forgotten about the trip to ER. I honestly thought if you had no insurance and did not work (at the time of hospital visit) that this hospital was where you go! Everyone else I knew at the time used the hospital that way and to my knowledge they were never contacted to pay the bill. Of course, they didn’t work either! lol! Since I have ‘cleaned’ up my life so to speak, I left most of those pals behind.
Love your humor! Humor does help when life sucks!
Callie

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Bush Plans to Screen Whole Population…
Date: June 21, 2004 at 1:46:21 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

whichis good for your economy.

what is good for the economy often isn’t good for the people. or the planet for that matter.

Like the NeoCons view that War is good for the economy. -Good for their bloated off shore bank accounts.

-dh

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Bush Plans to Screen Whole Population…
Date: June 21, 2004 at 1:07:00 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

And he is right! It will sell more prescription drugs, more jobs at the health care business, more mental hospitals more cheap labour and control.
which is good for your economy.
With so much air pollution, sure you can get unbalanced brain chemistry. people forget what is honest, what is human right
What is privacy , what was the soviet union like &east Germany.
Try it in the U.S maybe you will get more dissent people, like super Natasha.

sara

.

Van: Dana Beal [mailto:dana@cures-not-wars.org] 
Verzonden: maandag 21 juni 2004 18:32
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: [ibogaine] Bush Plans to Screen Whole Population…

http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/328/7454/1458

News

Bush plans to screen whole US population for mental illness
Jeanne Lenzer

New York

A sweeping mental health initiative will be unveiled by President George W Bush in July. The plan promises to integrate mentally ill patients fully into the community by providing “services in the community, rather than institutions,” according to a March 2004 progress report entitled New Freedom Initiative (www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/newfreedom/toc-2004.html). While some praise the plan’s goals, others say it protects the profits of drug companies at the expense of the public.

Bush established the New Freedom Commission on Mental Health in April 2002 to conduct a “comprehensive study of the United States mental health service delivery system.” The commission issued its recommendations in July 2003. Bush instructed more than 25 federal agencies to develop an implementation plan based on those recommendations.

The president’s commission found that “despite their prevalence, mental disorders often go undiagnosed” and recommended comprehensive mental health screening for “consumers of all ages,” including preschool children. According to the commission, “Each year, young children are expelled from preschools and childcare facilities for severely disruptive behaviours and emotional disorders.” Schools, wrote the commission, are in a “key position” to screen the 52 million students and 6 million adults who work at the schools.

The commission also recommended “Linkage [of screening] with treatment and supports” including “state-of-the-art treatments” using “specific medications for specific conditions.” The commission commended the Texas Medication Algorithm Project (TMAP) as a “model” medication treatment plan that “illustrates an evidence-based practice that results in better consumer outcomes.”

Dr Darrel Regier, director of research at the American Psychiatric Association (APA), lauded the president’s initiative and the Texas project model saying, “What’s nice about TMAP is that this is a logical plan based on efficacy data from clinical trials.”

He said the association has called for increased funding for implementation of the overall plan.

But the Texas project, which promotes the use of newer, more expensive antidepressants and antipsychotic drugs, sparked off controversy when Allen Jones, an employee of the Pennsylvania Office of the Inspector General, revealed that key officials with influence over the medication plan in his state received money and perks from drug companies with a stake in the medication algorithm (15 May, p1153). He was sacked this week for speaking to the BMJ and the New York Times.

The Texas project started in 1995 as an alliance of individuals from the pharmaceutical industry, the University of Texas, and the mental health and corrections systems of Texas. The project was funded by a Robert Wood Johnson grant-and by several drug companies.

Mr Jones told the BMJ that the same “political/pharmaceutical alliance” that generated the Texas project was behind the recommendations of the New Freedom Commission, which, according to his whistleblower report, were “poised to consolidate the TMAP effort into a comprehensive national policy to treat mental illness with expensive, patented medications of questionable benefit and deadly side effects, and to force private insurers to pick up more of the tab” (http://psychrights.org/Drugs/AllenJonesTMAPJanuary20.pdf).

Larry D Sasich, research associate with Public Citizen in Washington, DC, told the BMJ that studies in both the United States and Great Britain suggest that “using the older drugs first makes sense. There’s nothing in the labeling of the newer atypical antipsychotic drugs that suggests they are superior in efficacy to haloperidol [an older “typical” antipsychotic]. There has to be an enormous amount of unnecessary expenditures for the newer drugs.”
Drug companies have contributed three times more to the campaign of George Bush, seen here campaigning in Florida, than to that of his rival John Kerry

Credit: GERALD HERBERT/AP



Olanzapine (trade name Zyprexa), one of the atypical antipsychotic drugs recommended as a first line drug in the Texas algorithm, grossed $4.28bn (£2.35bn; 3.56bn) worldwide in 2003 and is Eli Lilly’s top selling drug. A 2003 New York Times article by Gardiner Harris reported that 70% of olanzapine sales are paid for by government agencies, such as Medicare and Medicaid.

Eli Lilly, manufacturer of olanzapine, has multiple ties to the Bush administration. George Bush Sr was a member of Lilly’s board of directors and Bush Jr appointed Lilly’s chief executive officer, Sidney Taurel, to a seat on the Homeland Security Council. Lilly made $1.6m in political contributions in 2000-82% of which went to Bush and the Republican Party.

Jones points out that the companies that helped to start up the Texas project have been, and still are, big contributors to the election funds of George W Bush. In addition, some members of the New Freedom Commission have served on advisory boards for these same companies, while others have direct ties to the Texas Medication Algorithm Project.

Bush was the governor of Texas during the development of the Texas project, and, during his 2000 presidential campaign, he boasted of his support for the project and the fact that the legislation he passed expanded Medicaid coverage of psychotropic drugs.

Bush is the clear front runner when it comes to drug company contributions. According to the Center for Responsive Politics (CRP), manufacturers of drugs and health products have contributed $764 274 to the 2004 Bush campaign through their political action committees and employees-far outstripping the $149 400 given to his chief rival, John Kerry, by 26 April.

Drug companies have fared exceedingly well under the Bush administration, according to the centre’s spokesperson, Steven Weiss.

The commission’s recommendation for increased screening has also been questioned. Robert Whitaker, journalist and author of Mad in America, says that while increased screening “may seem defensible,” it could also be seen as “fishing for customers,” and that exorbitant spending on new drugs “robs from other forms of care such as job training and shelter programmes.”

But Dr Graham Emslie, who helped develop the Texas project, defends screening: “There are good data showing that if you identify kids at an earlier age who are aggressive, you can intervene… and change their trajectory.”


 

Rapid Responses:

Read all Rapid Responses
After this mass screening they are planning to use the lie-detector
Dr. Herbert H. Nehrlich
bmj.com, 17 Jun 2004 [Full text]
Welcome.
Jim Sane
bmj.com, 18 Jun 2004 [Full text]
A public health project worthy of massive public funding provided the aim is not to screen for “mental illnesses”.
Richard G Fiddian-Green
bmj.com, 19 Jun 2004 [Full text]
Any other sources of information for the article?
Richard M Diamond
bmj.com, 19 Jun 2004 [Full text]
We must be crazy…
Michael Ellner
bmj.com, 19 Jun 2004 [Full text]
Paved with good intentions?
Woody Caan
bmj.com, 19 Jun 2004 [Full text]
Instruments for Screening and Treatment Modalities
Eileen McGinn
bmj.com, 19 Jun 2004 [Full text]
Ambitious yet commendable
Prem K Kunjukrishnan, et al.
bmj.com, 19 Jun 2004 [Full text]
Bush plans to screen whole US population for mental illness
Raymond Gallup
bmj.com, 19 Jun 2004 [Full text]
Bush’s Sanity Test Revealed
Dr. Archie W. Julien
bmj.com, 19 Jun 2004 [Full text]
WATCH OUT for Bush push of psychiatric drugs
David W. Oaks
bmj.com, 19 Jun 2004 [Full text]
Brave new world?
Blue Pilgrim
bmj.com, 20 Jun 2004 [Full text]
WE NEED A FORUM ?
D.Michael VAN DE VEER, et al.
bmj.com, 20 Jun 2004 [Full text]
Implications of Government Sponsored Mental Health Screenings: Some Important Questions
Barbara Rubin
bmj.com, 20 Jun 2004 [Full text]
Psychotic in Texas
Mark Struthers
bmj.com, 20 Jun 2004 [Full text]
Awareness = Paranoia
Darcy R Baston
bmj.com, 20 Jun 2004 [Full text]
Re: Bush’s Sanity Test Revealed
Dr. Naseem A. Qureshi
bmj.com, 20 Jun 2004 [Full text]
Goals of Screening?
Judith A. Wills
bmj.com, 20 Jun 2004 [Full text]
Big Pharma Knows How to Create A Market
Dr. Toby TYler Watson
bmj.com, 20 Jun 2004 [Full text]
Its the Bush cabal who need testing .. ASAP
David Broatch
bmj.com, 21 Jun 2004 [Full text]
Sources for article
Jeanne M. Lenzer
bmj.com, 21 Jun 2004 [Full text]
Bush Back on Clinton Agenda Again?
Fritz E. Cluzen
bmj.com, 21 Jun 2004 [Full text]
 

Other related articles in BMJ:
News
Whistleblower removed from job for talking to the press.
Jeanne Lenzer
BMJ 2004 328: 1153. [Full text]

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Bush Plans to Screen Whole Population…
Date: June 21, 2004 at 12:32:04 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/328/7454/1458

News

Bush plans to screen whole US population for mental illness
Jeanne Lenzer

New York

A sweeping mental health initiative will be unveiled by President George W Bush in July. The plan promises to integrate mentally ill patients fully into the community by providing “services in the community, rather than institutions,” according to a March 2004 progress report entitled New Freedom Initiative (www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/newfreedom/toc-2004.html). While some praise the plan’s goals, others say it protects the profits of drug companies at the expense of the public.

Bush established the New Freedom Commission on Mental Health in April 2002 to conduct a “comprehensive study of the United States mental health service delivery system.” The commission issued its recommendations in July 2003. Bush instructed more than 25 federal agencies to develop an implementation plan based on those recommendations.

The president’s commission found that “despite their prevalence, mental disorders often go undiagnosed” and recommended comprehensive mental health screening for “consumers of all ages,” including preschool children. According to the commission, “Each year, young children are expelled from preschools and childcare facilities for severely disruptive behaviours and emotional disorders.” Schools, wrote the commission, are in a “key position” to screen the 52 million students and 6 million adults who work at the schools.

The commission also recommended “Linkage [of screening] with treatment and supports” including “state-of-the-art treatments” using “specific medications for specific conditions.” The commission commended the Texas Medication Algorithm Project (TMAP) as a “model” medication treatment plan that “illustrates an evidence-based practice that results in better consumer outcomes.”

Dr Darrel Regier, director of research at the American Psychiatric Association (APA), lauded the president’s initiative and the Texas project model saying, “What’s nice about TMAP is that this is a logical plan based on efficacy data from clinical trials.”

He said the association has called for increased funding for implementation of the overall plan.

But the Texas project, which promotes the use of newer, more expensive antidepressants and antipsychotic drugs, sparked off controversy when Allen Jones, an employee of the Pennsylvania Office of the Inspector General, revealed that key officials with influence over the medication plan in his state received money and perks from drug companies with a stake in the medication algorithm (15 May, p1153). He was sacked this week for speaking to the BMJ and the New York Times.

The Texas project started in 1995 as an alliance of individuals from the pharmaceutical industry, the University of Texas, and the mental health and corrections systems of Texas. The project was funded by a Robert Wood Johnson grant-and by several drug companies.

Mr Jones told the BMJ that the same “political/pharmaceutical alliance” that generated the Texas project was behind the recommendations of the New Freedom Commission, which, according to his whistleblower report, were “poised to consolidate the TMAP effort into a comprehensive national policy to treat mental illness with expensive, patented medications of questionable benefit and deadly side effects, and to force private insurers to pick up more of the tab” (http://psychrights.org/Drugs/AllenJonesTMAPJanuary20.pdf).

Larry D Sasich, research associate with Public Citizen in Washington, DC, told the BMJ that studies in both the United States and Great Britain suggest that “using the older drugs first makes sense. There’s nothing in the labeling of the newer atypical antipsychotic drugs that suggests they are superior in efficacy to haloperidol [an older “typical” antipsychotic]. There has to be an enormous amount of unnecessary expenditures for the newer drugs.”

 

Drug companies have contributed three times more to the campaign of George Bush, seen here campaigning in Florida, than to that of his rival John Kerry

Credit: GERALD HERBERT/AP

Olanzapine (trade name Zyprexa), one of the atypical antipsychotic drugs recommended as a first line drug in the Texas algorithm, grossed $4.28bn (£2.35bn; 3.56bn) worldwide in 2003 and is Eli Lilly’s top selling drug. A 2003 New York Times article by Gardiner Harris reported that 70% of olanzapine sales are paid for by government agencies, such as Medicare and Medicaid.

Eli Lilly, manufacturer of olanzapine, has multiple ties to the Bush administration. George Bush Sr was a member of Lilly’s board of directors and Bush Jr appointed Lilly’s chief executive officer, Sidney Taurel, to a seat on the Homeland Security Council. Lilly made $1.6m in political contributions in 2000-82% of which went to Bush and the Republican Party.

Jones points out that the companies that helped to start up the Texas project have been, and still are, big contributors to the election funds of George W Bush. In addition, some members of the New Freedom Commission have served on advisory boards for these same companies, while others have direct ties to the Texas Medication Algorithm Project.

Bush was the governor of Texas during the development of the Texas project, and, during his 2000 presidential campaign, he boasted of his support for the project and the fact that the legislation he passed expanded Medicaid coverage of psychotropic drugs.

Bush is the clear front runner when it comes to drug company contributions. According to the Center for Responsive Politics (CRP), manufacturers of drugs and health products have contributed $764 274 to the 2004 Bush campaign through their political action committees and employees-far outstripping the $149 400 given to his chief rival, John Kerry, by 26 April.

Drug companies have fared exceedingly well under the Bush administration, according to the centre’s spokesperson, Steven Weiss.

The commission’s recommendation for increased screening has also been questioned. Robert Whitaker, journalist and author of Mad in America, says that while increased screening “may seem defensible,” it could also be seen as “fishing for customers,” and that exorbitant spending on new drugs “robs from other forms of care such as job training and shelter programmes.”

But Dr Graham Emslie, who helped develop the Texas project, defends screening: “There are good data showing that if you identify kids at an earlier age who are aggressive, you can intervene… and change their trajectory.”

 

Rapid Responses:

Read all Rapid Responses
After this mass screening they are planning to use the lie-detector
Dr. Herbert H. Nehrlich
bmj.com, 17 Jun 2004 [Full text]
Welcome.
Jim Sane
bmj.com, 18 Jun 2004 [Full text]
A public health project worthy of massive public funding provided the aim is not to screen for “mental illnesses”.
Richard G Fiddian-Green
bmj.com, 19 Jun 2004 [Full text]
Any other sources of information for the article?
Richard M Diamond
bmj.com, 19 Jun 2004 [Full text]
We must be crazy…
Michael Ellner
bmj.com, 19 Jun 2004 [Full text]
Paved with good intentions?
Woody Caan
bmj.com, 19 Jun 2004 [Full text]
Instruments for Screening and Treatment Modalities
Eileen McGinn
bmj.com, 19 Jun 2004 [Full text]
Ambitious yet commendable
Prem K Kunjukrishnan, et al.
bmj.com, 19 Jun 2004 [Full text]
Bush plans to screen whole US population for mental illness
Raymond Gallup
bmj.com, 19 Jun 2004 [Full text]
Bush’s Sanity Test Revealed
Dr. Archie W. Julien
bmj.com, 19 Jun 2004 [Full text]
WATCH OUT for Bush push of psychiatric drugs
David W. Oaks
bmj.com, 19 Jun 2004 [Full text]
Brave new world?
Blue Pilgrim
bmj.com, 20 Jun 2004 [Full text]
WE NEED A FORUM ?
D.Michael VAN DE VEER, et al.
bmj.com, 20 Jun 2004 [Full text]
Implications of Government Sponsored Mental Health Screenings: Some Important Questions
Barbara Rubin
bmj.com, 20 Jun 2004 [Full text]
Psychotic in Texas
Mark Struthers
bmj.com, 20 Jun 2004 [Full text]
Awareness = Paranoia
Darcy R Baston
bmj.com, 20 Jun 2004 [Full text]
Re: Bush’s Sanity Test Revealed
Dr. Naseem A. Qureshi
bmj.com, 20 Jun 2004 [Full text]
Goals of Screening?
Judith A. Wills
bmj.com, 20 Jun 2004 [Full text]
Big Pharma Knows How to Create A Market
Dr. Toby TYler Watson
bmj.com, 20 Jun 2004 [Full text]
Its the Bush cabal who need testing .. ASAP
David Broatch
bmj.com, 21 Jun 2004 [Full text]
Sources for article
Jeanne M. Lenzer
bmj.com, 21 Jun 2004 [Full text]
Bush Back on Clinton Agenda Again?
Fritz E. Cluzen
bmj.com, 21 Jun 2004 [Full text]
Other related articles in BMJ:
News
Whistleblower removed from job for talking to the press.
Jeanne Lenzer
BMJ 2004 328: 1153. [Full text]

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Bush Indecisive, Paranoid, Delusional
Date: June 21, 2004 at 12:31:49 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

New Information Shows Bush Indecisive, Paranoid, Delusional
By TERESA HAMPTON
Editor, Capitol Hill Blue
Jun 17, 2004, 08:47

Email this article
Printer friendly page

The carefully-crafted image of George W. Bush as a bold, decisive leader is cracking under the weight of new revelations that the erratic President is indecisive, moody, paranoid and delusional.

“More and more this brings back memories of the Nixon White House,” says retired political science professor George Harleigh, who worked for President Nixon during the second presidential term that ended in resignation under fire. “I haven’t heard any reports of President Bush wondering the halls talking to portraits of dead Presidents but what I have been told is disturbing.”

Two weeks ago, Capitol Hill Blue revealed that a growing number of White House aides are concerned about the President’s mental stability. They told harrowing tales of violent mood swings, bouts with paranoia and obscene outbursts from a President who wears his religion on his sleeve.

Although supporters of President Bush dismissed the reports as “fantasies from anonymous sources,” a new book by Dr. Justin Frank, director of psychiatry at George Washington University, raises many similar questions about the President’s mental stability.

“George W. Bush is a case study in contradiction,” Dr. Frank writes inBush On The Couch: Inside the Mind of the President.  “Bush is an untreated ex-alcoholic with paranoid and megalomaniac tendencies.”

In addition, a new film by documentary filmmaker, and frequent Bush critic, Michael Moore shows the President indecisive and clearly befuddled when he learned about the terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center on September 11, 2001.

While conservative critics who have not yet seen Fahrenheit 9/11 dismiss the work as an anti-Bush screed, Roger Friedman of the normally pro-Bush Fox News Network has seen the film and calls it “a tribute to patriotism, to the American sense of duty  –  and at the same time a indictment of stupidity and avarice.”

Friedman also says the films “most indelible moment” comes when Bush, speaking to a group of school kids in Florida, is first informed of the 9/11 attacks.

“Instead of jumping up and leaving, he instead sat in front of the class, with an unfortunate look of confusion, for nearly 11 minutes,” Friedman says.  “Moore obtained the footage from a teacher at the school who videotaped the morning program. There Bush sits, with no access to his advisers, while New York is being viciously attacked. I guarantee you that no one who sees this film forgets this episode.”

Dr. Frank says the episode is typical of how Bush deals with death and tragedy.  He notes that Bush avoids funerals.

“President Bush has not attended a single funeral – other than that of President Reagan. In my book I explore some possible reasons for that, whether or not it is “presidential”. I am less interested in judging his behavior on political grounds than I am in thinking about its meaning both to him and to the rest of us,” Dr. Frank says. “He has spent a lifetime of avoiding grief, starting with the death of his sister when he was 7 years old. His parents didn’t help him with what must have been confusing and frightening feelings. He also has a history of evading responsibility and perhaps his not attending funerals has to do with not wanting to see the damage his policies have wrought.”

In his book, Dr. Frank also suggests Bush resents those in the military.

“Bush’s behavior strongly suggests an unconscious resentment toward our own servicemen, whose bravery puts his own (nonexistent) wartime service record to shame,” he wrote.

Supporters of President Bush dismiss Frank’s book as the work of a Democrat who once headed the Washington Chapter of Physicians for Social Responsibility, but his work has been praised by other prominent psychiatrists, including Dr. James Grotstein, Professor at UCLA Medical Center, and Dr. Irvin Yalom, MD, Professor Emeritus at Stanford University Medical School.

Dr. Carolyn Williams, a psychoanalyst who specializes in paranoid personalities, is a registered Republican and agrees with most of Dr. Frank’s conclusions.

“I find the bulk of his analysis credible,” she said in an interview. “President Bush grew up dealing with an absent but demanding father, a tough mother and an overachieving brother. All left indelible impressions on him along with a desire to prove himself at all cost because he feels surrounded by disapproval. He behavior suggests a classic paranoid personality. Additionally, his stated belief that certain actions are ‘God’s Will’ are symptomatic of delusional behavior.”

Ryan Reynolds, a childhood friend of Bush, concurs.

“George wanted to please his father but never felt he measured up, especially when compared to Jeb,” Reynolds said.

Dr. Williams wonders if the Iraq war was not Bush’s way of “proving he could finish something his father could not by deposing Saddam Hussein.”

But Bush’s desire to please his father may have backfired. Former President George H.W. Bush has remained silent publicly about the war, saying he will only discuss it with his son “in private.”  Close aides say that is because he disapproves of his son’s actions against Iraq.

“Former President Bush does not support the war against Iraq,” says former aide John Ruskin. “It is as simple at that.”

While current White House aides and officials would not allow their names to be used when commenting about Bush’s erratic behavior, others like former Treasury Secretary Paul O’Neill confirm concerns about Bush’s mood swings.

O’Neill says Bush was moody in cabinet meetings and would wander off on tangents, mostly about Saddam Hussein and Iraq. Bush, O’Neill says, seemed more focused on Iraq than on finding Osama bin Laden and would lash out at anyone who disagreed with him.

Harleigh says it is not unusual for White House staffers to refuse to go public with their concerns about the President’s behavior.

“We saw the same thing in the Nixon years,” he says.  “What is unusual is that the White House has not been able to trot out even one staffer who is willing to go public and say positive things about the President’s mental condition. That says more than anything else.”

Dr. Frank, the Democrat, says the only diagnosis he can offer for the President’s condition is removal from office.

Dr. Williams, the Republican, says she must “reluctantly agree.”

“We have too many unanswered questions about the President’s behavior,” she says. “You cannot have those kinds of unanswered questions when you are talking about the leader of the free world.”
© Copyright 2004 by Capitol Hill Blue

From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] plagiarism
Date: June 21, 2004 at 11:36:31 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hallucinogens may often be considered sacred – there are peyote
cults and bannisteria cults, hashish and mushroom cults – but no one
ever suggested that heroin is holy.

There are no high priests of crack. These drugs are profane,
pernicious. When you are in the grip of them you could almost
imagine you are under some diabolic possession. When you come down
you are swamped with guilt and self-loathing.

Don’t know if this fellow remembered, but the top sentence is
directly lifted from the intro to NAKED LUNCH.

Oh, well. Brit writers gotta make a living too, I guess.

<snicker>

At least he didn’t go off on a diatribe about the dangers of the dreaded
black meat of the great aquatic brazilian centipede…

=)

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] 12 steps
Date: June 21, 2004 at 11:23:06 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Dave,

I used to go to NA but I have found many of the people are liars.  Some were great people and were helped.  Others, like the guy who asked sponsor me had me drive him down to get crack. He also stood up in front of everyone and accepted his 1 year clean token.  Also, I feel that I have abused heroin and to a lesser degree crack.  However, NA will look down at me if I take a sleeping pill or valium.  Hey, I don’t abuse those and feel I have the right to take them.  How about antibiotics, do I have the right to take them?

A friend of mine has been on met close to twenty years.  I am afraid of met because I had to use heroin to get off met like almost everyone I know.  I said to my buddy why have you been on met so long and he said – it keeps me out of jail.  He had spent over 10 years in jail here and there.  Met is a terrible drug but it beats the hell out of jail.  With drugs it is not a one size fits all like NA seems to be pushing.  If you don’t go to your NA friends trying to sell them drugs or encourage drugs it is sad they feel uncomfortable around you.  But you can’t make everyone happy.  I can relate to what your saying.  They don’t want you talking about the Bill W and LSD thing but harp on telling you to be honest with yourself.  I have nothing against NA just that several time after a meeting I would rush out and use.  Sitting there and talking about drugs and problems did not seem to work for me.  Them cravings and W/D are hell.

Take Care

– JIM

D H <dave@phantom.com> wrote:

On Sunday, June 20, 2004, at 06:34 AM, UUSEAN@aol.com wrote:

>
> Hi Callie,
>
> I have been attending meetings in the NYC area for almost 20 years.  I
> have known about Bill and his experimental ways since the early
> nineties when Nan Robinson (?)
> wrote “Inside AA.”  Not once has LSD or Bill’s LSD days come up.
> Remember he was 20 years “sober” taking a mind expanding chemical.  A
> sin by modern orthodox AA standards.

after attending AA/NA meetings for almost 15 years, not once was either
the belladonna cure or the LSD daze mentioned.

On many an occasion I was asked not to discuss my drugs of choice at
AA, but to sit in the back and “shut the fuck up”… well, that only
encouraged me to share even more lurid details.

There was an AA club (Alano House) about 10 buildings down from my
methadone clinic, so a couple of us who had hopes of getting off the
clinic would walk down there for a meeting (not to mention the free
coffee and doughnuts) right after dosing. They would tell us all kinds
of encouraging things, Like I “didn’t have a snowballs chance in hell
of getting ‘sober’ taking that Nazi medicine”.

I do have respect for the steps, they saved my ass on a few
occasions… BUT as someone recently and most eloquently said, its the
fan club I could do without.

Since deciding to not attend meetings to explore other areas of growth,
99 percent of my NA “friends” are extremely uncomfortable around me, or
avoid me altogether. I’m a puzzle to them, and a threat to their
paradigm.

which is fine, keep ’em guessing, I say!

_.dh

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete – You start. We finish.

From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Hello!
Date: June 21, 2004 at 10:49:20 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Callie,

Damn that hurts, that means whenever you get a decent job they automatically take money out of your check.  I know hind site is 20/20 but maybe you should of went down and tried to make arrangements.  I know, I know, hindsight is 20/20.  Also, I am on disability, I know what money problems are.  They let you pick an HMO then the HMO will not cover many of the drugs the doc writes.  My buddy lives in a small town and no one takes his HMO so what good is it?  He has to go to one of those free clinics that do not write for pain or sleep medication or anything good so to speak.  Never mind the guy broke his back a while ago, walks with a walker and is only 51 or so y/o and diabetic.  Yes, he is a drunk too but I’m not one to judge.

Here’s what ya do next time.  Tell them your from Mexico or so some Central American country.  It helps to speak Spanish.  Or make up some country like Iranagan, UAE and speak very poor English.  Get treated and leave.   Life sucks sometimes a little humor can help.  If your not working they can not take your workman’s comp or disability or pension.  They may put a lien on your house and I suggest you change you phone number for they will not quit calling you and f**** with you.  Trust me, been there, done that.

Now, if you can hide from them for five to seven years they will often give up on you and start f*** with someone else.  There comes a time when they realize they are not going to collect so they quit, see it’s all about the money.  When you change your phone number NEVER give it out to any store or credit agency.  They called the people across the street and she came over to give me an important message to call a person at a number sorta like an emergency.  I knew it was a collection agency and did not fall for it.  When they send you mail don’t open it, don’t answer it, don’t try and say moved NFA (I tried that – then they know your live there).  Also, if your wife, brother or any one else who lives in the house tells them that you do not live there they will not believe it.  There is a GREAT book called  “Stop It” and is well worth the $10.  By law if you send them a certified mail asking them to leave you alone they are suppose to and you can take them to court if they don’t. But document everything, keep receipts and copes of letters.  After the certified letter they get one more chance to contact you and that’s it.  If you decide to take them to court supeno all their phone records, that way they can not say they did not call you when they did.  I have heard of people having the debt wiped clean for 1) breaking the law and 2) lying about it to the judge, in fact almost got his ass in jain for either contemp or purjury.  Forget all about the repair your credit companies as they are rip offs.  I know good people who were injured on the job or waiting for disability and they f****  with them every day, left and right.  They add to your stress level and raise your blood pressue.  You feel so helpless and there is nothing you can do.   I hate to sound like a know-it-all but I have been through hell and back, that’s how I know.

I was in Florida when Hurricane Andrew hit and some people were being arrested for price gouging for trying to sell $2 bags of ice for $10.  Florida cops do not mess around when they tell ya to get out of here and not be seen again it is best to do so.  Seems that hospitals have a license to price gouge.  Feel sorry for ya.

Wish ya the best,

– JIM

CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
I had Metro General Hospital garnishee my wages! They are the hospital for indigent and uninsured here in Nashville.

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete – You start. We finish.

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] AA
Date: June 21, 2004 at 9:42:40 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I agree with you Callie. I am not a follower of the 12 step concept but like many other things in life, I take what I believe will help and what makes sense to me and use that in a constructive manner in my life. There are positive aspects in twelve steps that everybody could benefit from. The ‘rooms’ may want you to buy their concept lock, stock and barrel. All or nothing. You don’t need to buy the whole package neither do you have to reject it. Take what works for you and do that with everything you learn in life. DOGMA is something I’ve always feared and disliked and apparently alot of us here feel the same .

Julian L. Robinson Jr.

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] plagiarism
Date: June 21, 2004 at 9:41:22 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hallucinogens may often be considered sacred – there are peyote cults and bannisteria cults, hashish and mushroom cults – but no one ever suggested that heroin is holy.
There are no high priests of crack. These drugs are profane, pernicious. When you are in the grip of them you could almost imagine you are under some diabolic possession. When you come down you are swamped with guilt and self-loathing.

Don’t know if this fellow remembered, but the top sentence is directly lifted from the intro to NAKED LUNCH.

Oh, well. Brit writers gotta make a living too, I guess.

Dana/cnw

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] OT- for Dana, weatern drought coule be worse in years
Date: June 21, 2004 at 9:03:29 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

HI all,
This hasn’t a single thing to do with ibogaine, so I apologize out
front, but I seem to have somehow delete Dana’s email from my box, and due
to a conversation I had with him yesterday, I thought I should post this to
him.
Dana, it looks like you might be looking a bit far afield my friend by
going off to Russia to try and build yer dam and reservoir.
Peace,
Preston

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/062104G.shtml

Western Drought Beats Dust Bowl,
Could Be Worst in 500 Years
By Angie Wagner
Associated Press
Friday 18 June 2004
Las Vegas – The drought gripping the West could be the biggest in 500
years, with effects in the Colorado River basin considerably worse than
during the Dust Bowl years, scientists at the U.S. Geological Survey said
Thursday.
“That we can now say with confidence,” said Robert Webb, lead author of
the new fact sheet. “Now I’m completely convinced.”
The Colorado River has been in a drought for the entire decade, cutting
an important source of water for millions of people across the West,
including Southern California.
Environmental groups said the report reinforces the need to figure out a
better way to manage the Colorado River before reservoirs run dry.
“The water managers, they just continue to pray for rain,” said Owen
Lammers, director of Living Rivers and Colorado Riverkeeper. “They just say,
well, we hope that things change and we see rain.”
The report said the drought has produced the lowest flow in the Colorado
River on record, with an adjusted annual average flow of only 5.4 million
acre-feet at Lees Ferry, Arizona, during the period 2001-2003. By
comparison, during the Dust Bowl years, between 1930 and 1937, the annual
flow averaged about 10.2 million acre-feet, the report said.
Scientists use tree-ring reconstructions of Colorado River flows to
estimate what conditions were like before record-keeping began in 1895.
Using that method, the lowest five-year average of water flow was 8.84
million acre-feet in the years 1590-1594. From 1999 through last year, water
flow has been 7.11 million acre-feet.
“These comparisons suggest that the current drought may be comparable to
or more severe than the largest known drought in 500 years,” the report
said.
The report said the river had its highest flow of the 20th century from
1905 to 1922, the years used to estimate how much water Western states would
receive under the Colorado River Compact. The 1922 compact should now be
reconsidered because of the uncertain water flow, said Steve Smith, a
regional director for the Wilderness Society.
The report did not surprise water managers.
Adan Ortega, spokesman for the Metropolitan Water District of Southern
California, said the water district has been increasing water storage,
buying water from farmers, and investing in alternatives to the Colorado
River.
“The big lesson is communities cannot afford to put all their eggs in
the proverbial basket. You need … a diverse portfolio of resources,”
Ortega said.
Herb Guenther, director of the Arizona Department of Water Resources,
said the agency continues to plan for a lingering drought.
“It’s serious, but the sky is not falling. Of course, we wish it would
in the form of rain,” he said.
Droughts seldom persist for longer than a decade, the report noted. But
that could mean the current drought is only half over.
“If you’re a betting person, you will bet that we will come out of this
drought next year,” Webb said. “It’s a very severe event, and these things
tend to end fast. There are other indications, though, that suggest that
this drought could persist for as long as 30 years. “We don’t really know.”

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From: <deartheo@ziplip.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] In NewYork This Evening
Date: June 21, 2004 at 8:33:05 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

AN EVENING WITH DR. SASHA SHULGIN AND ANN SHULGIN

WHEN:     Monday, June 21st from 6 – 8 pm
LOCATION: John Jay College of Criminal Justice,
899 10th Avenue, Room 203 between 58th
and 59th, New York City
CONTACT:  To RSVP or for more information,
please contact Julie Ruckel, 212.613.8053

The Drug Policy Alliance and the John Jay College of Criminal Justice
are co-hosting an evening with Dr. Sasha Shulgin, the noted psychedelic
chemist and pharmacologist, and his wife Ann Shulgin, the noted
psychotherapist.

Alexander “Sasha” Shulgin, Ph.D., is best known for his creation and
discovery of new psychoactive chemicals. Sasha earned his doctorate in
biochemistry from UC-Berkeley in 1954 before eventually becoming a
senior research chemist at Dow Chemical. Best known for his work with
synthesizing MDMA or “ecstasy”, Sasha was first introduced to the drug
in 1967 at San Francisco State University.

Though Sasha was not the first to create MDMA, he did create a new
synthesis process and introduced the drug to Bay Area psychologists who
incorporated the psychedelic into their therapeutic practice. Word about
MDMA’s benefits quickly spread beyond the therapeutic community. In
addition, Sasha has created and self-tested hundreds of other
psychoactive chemicals.

Ann Shulgin, Sasha’s partner is a lay therapist who conducted
psychedelic therapy before 1985, when MDMA was effectively made illegal
when it was reclassified as a Schedule I drug. Ann is a researcher and
spokesperson for the beneficial use of psychedelics, including MDMA, in
a therapeutic setting.

Sasha and Ann Shulgin are authors of PIKHAL, A Chemical Love Story and
TIKHAL, Tryptamines I Have Known and Loved and detailing the synthesis
and personal experience with hundreds of psychedelics. The Shulgins
travel and speak extensively on the topic of psychedelics.
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From: Hattie <epoptica@freeuk.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] FW: Ibogaine article in Observer
Date: June 21, 2004 at 5:47:47 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The following piece came out in the Observer magazine yesterday that I thought
might interest some of you.

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/magazine/story/0,11913,1241264,00.html

Its  very positive overall and describes the authors visionary experience
in some detail.

I have been taken out of context a couple of times, but then that is what
happens when articles emerge from the editing room!

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From: Hattie <epoptica@freeuk.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: bup/subutex
Date: June 21, 2004 at 5:40:40 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi again,

After consulting with the doctor who works with me while detoxing
clients and doing a bit of my own research, the conclusion arrived at (as previously assumed), was: bearing in mind that there
is a complete lack of published research on dosing drug-dependent
individuals with ibogaine, when they have dosed with buprenorphine in
the near-term past; it was deemed a good idea to continue to err on the side of
caution, and switch prospective clients over to a shorter-acting
opioid, before dosing with ibogaine. To be on the safe side this would be at least 4 days prior to taking ibogaine due to half life of bup/subutex.

While buprenorphine may/may not, be compatible with ibogaine,
it doesn’t seem like a good idea to test this with patients. From my last email it may have seemed as though this was the suggestion. It was not in fact, but more a willingness to share my research and keep communicating on this issue. Many people try ibogaine at home without the help of a treatment provider. Although I don’t recommend this it happens and therefore it is important to post stuff up on this list about issues such as these.

Hattie

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] conference brochure
Date: June 21, 2004 at 1:26:42 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Very cool Howard! Thank you!
Callie

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] conference brochure
Date: June 20, 2004 at 10:32:00 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

For those of you who missed it, the conference brochure from the Invitational
Conference on Drug User Activism is available.

http://doraweiner.org/coverbf.html

Will the doctor get you?  Why not?

Check out the table of contents and articles.

Howard

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From: Hattie <epoptica@freeuk.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Subutex/buprenorphine
Date: June 20, 2004 at 4:55:46 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I am also very interested in the discussion about buprenorphine and subutex
as I have several people interested in ibogaine who are on these. One person
who takes subutex one day and heroin the next and alternates randomly it
seems. I will be doing some research on this but if anyone has any info or
experience it would be great to hear it.

I will obviously share my experiences and observations as they occur.
There are a large number of people in the UK being put on these programs at
the moment.

Hattie

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] 12 steps
Date: June 20, 2004 at 4:49:02 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 6/20/2004 12:36:49 PM Central Daylight Time, dave@phantom.com writes:
after attending AA/NA meetings for almost 15 years, not once was either
the belladonna cure or the LSD daze mentioned.

On many an occasion I was asked not to discuss my drugs of choice at
AA, but to sit in the back and “shut the fuck up”… well, that only
encouraged me to share even more lurid details.

LMAO!!!!!!! Your sounding like me! I do the same damn thing! If I have been told to listen caused I used in the last 24 hour I talk even more! hahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!
Callie

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] AA
Date: June 20, 2004 at 4:40:53 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

It should be brought up in meetings that Bill W was under influence when he had his spiritual awakening.
I know several folk, and was one of them at one time, who are very frustrated that a spiritual awakening of any sort, not just profound, has been experienced by them.
I know it s/w added to my feelings of helplessness and hopelessness because I could not ‘get’ what others ‘had’ and spoke about!
It was the same with religion! I have seen people taken over with the holy ghost, speak in tongues, pray for hours and I just could never get to that point. I felt like I was evil to the core or why else could I not be ‘moved’ the way others are?!!!
I feel like a LOT of people would be more receptive to AA if the ‘old timers’ would share honestly about Bills awakening under influence of hallucinogenic.
I don’t have a lot of bad to say about 12 step groups, particularly AA and NA cause I have taken some great stuff to heart that I heard in some of the meetings. I have seen it save some folks too!
Callie

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Hello!
Date: June 20, 2004 at 4:16:14 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I had Metro General Hospital garnishee my wages! They are the hospital for indigent and uninsured here in Nashville.

From: “jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] heresy of the 12 steps
Date: June 20, 2004 at 1:38:26 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

We definitly need some live music for the party, I can bring a digital PA
system and my gear. Anybody know of a band hip to Ibogaine?

I’m not a band, but i’d be happy to play if we  got this thing together..

in fact, i got  the name for my project from my research on ibogaine. it’s
called “oneirogen”.

and this seems like a good oppurtunity for some shameless self promotion,
so.. if anyone’s interested in hearing some of my tunes, they’re up at
www.soundclick.com/oneirogen   =)

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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] 12 steps
Date: June 20, 2004 at 1:36:32 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Sunday, June 20, 2004, at 06:34 AM, UUSEAN@aol.com wrote:

Hi Callie,

I have been attending meetings in the NYC area for almost 20 years.  I have known about Bill and his experimental ways since the early nineties when Nan Robinson (?)
wrote “Inside AA.”  Not once has LSD or Bill’s LSD days come up.  Remember he was 20 years “sober” taking a mind expanding chemical.  A sin by modern orthodox AA standards.

after attending AA/NA meetings for almost 15 years, not once was either the belladonna cure or the LSD daze mentioned.

On many an occasion I was asked not to discuss my drugs of choice at AA, but to sit in the back and “shut the fuck up”… well, that only encouraged me to share even more lurid details.

There was an AA club (Alano House) about 10 buildings down from my methadone clinic, so a couple of us who had hopes of getting off the clinic would walk down there for a meeting (not to mention the free coffee and doughnuts) right after dosing. They would tell us all kinds of encouraging things, Like I “didn’t have a snowballs chance in hell of getting ‘sober’ taking that Nazi medicine”.

I do have respect for the steps, they saved my ass on a few occasions… BUT as someone recently and most eloquently said, its the fan club I could do without.

Since deciding to not attend meetings to explore other areas of growth, 99 percent of my NA “friends” are extremely uncomfortable around me, or avoid me altogether. I’m a puzzle to them, and a threat to their paradigm.

which is fine, keep ’em guessing, I say!

_.dh

From: “jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] heresy of the 12 steps
Date: June 20, 2004 at 1:31:47 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

I could proabably make it to NYC for a mindvoxmeat…oh, hold on, I’m
already IN NYC.

NY’s like a 4 hour drive from me… if there was gonna be a mindvoxmeat,
i’m totally there =)

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From: “jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Bill Wilson and LSD
Date: June 20, 2004 at 1:30:25 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

All I know is that if I hadn’t found AA I would most definitly had been dead.
I don’t think if Bill did acid or not deminishes what help the big book has
done for mankind. I’m an acoholic stoned junkie and if I hadn’t quit drinking
first I would have never been lucid enough to find ibogaine.       I’m ready to
attack the next addiction.          Randy

No, I don’t think anyone’s saying that Bill’s experimentation with LSD
diminishes the value of the 12 steps itself, but what it does say is that
many AAers need to stop being such judgemental cunts.

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From: “Beatriz Brasil” <beatriz@pacific.net.hk>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] AA
Date: June 20, 2004 at 1:20:56 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Actually, when has any one path led to spiritual awakening?   I think Bill understand this over time.  While many may be helped, there are many who will never “get the program” for a variety of reasons.  Should they be left to die?

Sean

Excellent point! I’ve wondered myself many-many times and when attending parents’ meetings where one is also told that it is either “the program” or death and jail. One is actually told there are no alternatives. Such ignorance, to me
is misleading and criminal.
I am happy to say I still do not “get” it…
Beatriz

From: “Steven Anker” <stevenanker@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] 12 steps
Date: June 20, 2004 at 1:16:20 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Funny,

I love bringing up Bill Wilson’s acid and belladonna trips with AA folk. “Look if you want to follow the teachings of a drug-addled lunatic, that’s just fine by me.”

It was belladonna which provided Bill his spiritual awakening. Myself, wouldn’t touch the shit. Bill was primed for a spiritual awakening. Two reasons: one, Carl Jung had told him alcoholism was such a hopeless sickness, only a spiritual and religous experience might help. Two, he was surrounded by the Oxford group people.

“If there’s god, show himself.” Bill screamed. He was then immearsed in a white light. The 12 steps then flowed forth. Dr. Silkworth who adminstered the “Belladonna Cure” is the author of the the Dr.’s opinion in the big book.

The 12 steps are somewhat repetive, to be expected considering Bill’s state, and come from the teachings of the Oxford group. Read up on Daniel Buchman, founder of the Oxford group. He was obsessed with sexual sin, and how do I put this, … a boy enthusiast. Were do you think the moral inventory and seeking forgiveness for your sins came from? I can only imagine Buchman’s play for boys, “Tell me Jimmy, exactly what sort of sinful thoughts you thinking today, hot cock?” So let me get this straight, loads of trauma survivors are treated by the teachings of a sexual predator?

It ain’t Bill who bugs me, it’s his fan club. I’m sure Bill would have loved the iboga. Why does his fan club offer such resistance to alternate treatments? What’s with the my way or the highway attitude?

Fun fact: Bill was trip buddies with Aldus Huxley.

Yes AA has helped many people, but last I checked it’s a near monopoly. It has hurt many as well. Is it not possible that something better could come about? Is the bible thumping needed? Was it my sins which caused my addiction? Is addiction a moral failing? If I have a glass of wine is it really the same as going on a three week crack and smack bender?

_________________________________________________________________
Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfeeź Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] AA
Date: June 20, 2004 at 12:52:13 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Been enjoying reading all the posts about AA.  Locally AA is very unwelcoming to addicts, which has been good for the growth of NA around here, but it can leave a bitter taste concerning AA.   An announcement is made concerning keeping discussion to AA, and avoiding drug talk. (Bergen County,NJ).

I have respect for 12 steps groups, as it has helped save the lives of many of my friends.  I think modern AA/NA would benefit from the openmindeness AA’s co founder.  He was seeking anything could help, I think recognizing that the 12 steps simply could not work for everyone.  Actually, when has any one path led to spiritual awakening?   I think Bill understand this over time.  While many may be helped, there are many who will never “get the program” for a variety of reasons.  Should they be left to die?

Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] 12 steps
Date: June 20, 2004 at 12:34:14 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Callie,

I have been attending meetings in the NYC area for almost 20 years.  I have known about Bill and his experimental ways since the early nineties when Nan Robinson (?)
wrote “Inside AA.”  Not once has LSD or Bill’s LSD days come up.  Remember he was 20 years “sober” taking a mind expanding chemical.  A sin by modern orthodox AA standards.

I have read that Bill was really interested in helping alcoholics, even if it meant drifting completely away from the 12 step line.  He investigated vitamin therapies as well.  It got so “bad” that he was no longer to correspond on AA letterhead for fear of embarrassing the emerging AA establishment.  I really gained a lot of respect for Bill, and much less for AA and it’s one size fits all mentality.

Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] heresy of the 12 steps
Date: June 20, 2004 at 12:15:35 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Vector,

Great idea..I’m there.

sean

From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] 2nd request
Date: June 20, 2004 at 10:25:24 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Those (???) in power are reluctant to allow an effective alternative
(Ibogaine) to
have the chance to prove itself.  Their action is to put an even stronger
opiod in
place than Methadone.  Sorry to be so cynical and paranoid but I see this
happening
in other areas of the medical scenario.  What is the status of Stanley
Glick’s research
at the present?  I understand that he can get no financial backing to go on
with it?
Why doesn’t Deborah Mash publish the results of her research?  She stands to
become
very very wealthy if she has no competition I know, but what else is going
on behind the
scenes?

ann
think@francomm.com

—– Original Message —–
From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2004 10:00 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] 2nd request

Marko,

In the US the government is pushing buprenorphine therapy.  A 8 hour
course
qualifies a doctor to administer buprenorphine.  Buprenorphine therapy is
allowed to be administered from a primary care doctor’s office and does
not have to
come out of a regulated clinic or hospital as is the situation with
methadone
for the treatment of opioid dependence disorders.  The national institute
on
drug abuse (NIDA) had a collaborative research and development agreement
with
Reckitt Benckiser aka Reckitt Coleman.  The collaborative work to obtain
approval for buprenorphine to treat opioid dependence was going on during
the same
period that ibogaine advocates were trying to obtain NIDA collaboration
for
the development of ibogaine. NIDA, having a long history and familiarity
with
opioids chose buprenorphine and the backing of an operating pharmaceutical
company over the development of ibogaine and the relatively unknown iboga
alkaloids
and determined not to proceed to clinical studies of ibogaine.  The
buprenprhine/NIDA development program was unknown to the ibogaine
proponents at the
time of principal NIDA/ibogaine collaborative development (1991-1995) to
which
there was no formal agreement. There is a wonderful lecture given by John
Lewis,
the key person behind buprenorphine development who worked for Rickett
that
can be found as a pdf file at
http://www.cpdd.vcu.edu/98pdf/eddy%20award.pdf (this file will download
directly to your computer).

The lecture is in pdf format and requires an adobe reader program.  If
anyone
does not have an adobe reader program they are free downloads.
http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.html

That being said, Marko, please keep us informed of any information on
ibogaine treated buprenorphine maintained patients.  Buprenorphine is
indicated to be
longer acting than methadone and you should familiarize yourself with its
pharmacokinetic profile.  The internet would be a good place to start.  Do
a
google.com search.  Some good rats studies would be helpful but, where is
a
behavioral pharmacologist when you need one?

In a message dated 6/20/04 4:12:44 AM, marko@mindvox.com writes:

Howard,

this is a very good question, and all answers are very much appreciated!

Buprenorphine was just legalised for addiction treatment in Slovenija,
and
I guess Sacrament of Transition will soon get new members with
buprenorphine problem…

BTW, our top addiction doctors said on the news that they will start
using
it in September, not right now. The reason is that MDs have to be
educated
first.

Go figure! They could get all education needed on this list ;-))

Marko

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

Dear List,

Has anyone been treated with ibogaine for buprenorphine/subutex or
suboxone

dependence??

Any information appreciated.  As there are more and more buprenorphine

dependent patients it may be anticipated we will see more and more of
them treated
with ibogaine.  I am seeking information on ibogaine/buprenorphine
interaction

with an endpoint of determining can burprenorphine patients be treated
with
ibogaine or will buprenorophine have to be substituted by another
opioid
in
those patients prior to ibogaine therapy?

Howard

Howard S. Lotsof
President
Dora Weiner Foundation
POB 10032
Staten Island, NY 10301-0032
USA
dir tel, 1 718 442-2754
dir fax, 1 718 442-1957
email, dwf123@earthlink.net
http://www.doraweiner.org

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] 2nd request
Date: June 20, 2004 at 10:00:42 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Marko,

In the US the government is pushing buprenorphine therapy.  A 8 hour course
qualifies a doctor to administer buprenorphine.  Buprenorphine therapy is
allowed to be administered from a primary care doctor’s office and does not have to
come out of a regulated clinic or hospital as is the situation with methadone
for the treatment of opioid dependence disorders.  The national institute on
drug abuse (NIDA) had a collaborative research and development agreement with
Reckitt Benckiser aka Reckitt Coleman.  The collaborative work to obtain
approval for buprenorphine to treat opioid dependence was going on during the same
period that ibogaine advocates were trying to obtain NIDA collaboration for
the development of ibogaine. NIDA, having a long history and familiarity with
opioids chose buprenorphine and the backing of an operating pharmaceutical
company over the development of ibogaine and the relatively unknown iboga alkaloids
and determined not to proceed to clinical studies of ibogaine.  The
buprenprhine/NIDA development program was unknown to the ibogaine proponents at the
time of principal NIDA/ibogaine collaborative development (1991-1995) to which
there was no formal agreement. There is a wonderful lecture given by John Lewis,
the key person behind buprenorphine development who worked for Rickett that
can be found as a pdf file at
http://www.cpdd.vcu.edu/98pdf/eddy%20award.pdf (this file will download
directly to your computer).

The lecture is in pdf format and requires an adobe reader program.  If anyone
does not have an adobe reader program they are free downloads.
http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.html

That being said, Marko, please keep us informed of any information on
ibogaine treated buprenorphine maintained patients.  Buprenorphine is indicated to be
longer acting than methadone and you should familiarize yourself with its
pharmacokinetic profile.  The internet would be a good place to start.  Do a
google.com search.  Some good rats studies would be helpful but, where is a
behavioral pharmacologist when you need one?

In a message dated 6/20/04 4:12:44 AM, marko@mindvox.com writes:

Howard,

this is a very good question, and all answers are very much appreciated!

Buprenorphine was just legalised for addiction treatment in Slovenija,
and
I guess Sacrament of Transition will soon get new members with
buprenorphine problem…

BTW, our top addiction doctors said on the news that they will start using
it in September, not right now. The reason is that MDs have to be educated
first.

Go figure! They could get all education needed on this list ;-))

Marko

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

Dear List,

Has anyone been treated with ibogaine for buprenorphine/subutex or suboxone

dependence??

Any information appreciated.  As there are more and more buprenorphine

dependent patients it may be anticipated we will see more and more of
them treated
with ibogaine.  I am seeking information on ibogaine/buprenorphine
interaction

with an endpoint of determining can burprenorphine patients be treated
with
ibogaine or will buprenorophine have to be substituted by another opioid
in
those patients prior to ibogaine therapy?

Howard

Howard S. Lotsof
President
Dora Weiner Foundation
POB 10032
Staten Island, NY 10301-0032
USA
dir tel, 1 718 442-2754
dir fax, 1 718 442-1957
email, dwf123@earthlink.net
http://www.doraweiner.org

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] 12 steps
Date: June 20, 2004 at 9:27:31 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 6/20/04 1:23:12 AM, CallieMimosa@aol.com writes:

I am so fascinated to learn all this stuff about Bill  W!
The only AA books I have read and studies are the Big Book and  Twelve
and
Twelve.
I plan to get copy of Pass it On.
I just wonder why after all my experience in meetings I have  never heard

this discussed. It is probably because I live so far south,  Tennessee.
I have been to many Big Book discussions and this was never  brought up.
It
doesn’t address it straight forward in the Big Book  though.
Makes me want to go to AA meeting just to stir up a lively  discussion!

hahahahaha!!
I will need more references before I do  that!

I would think it was not discussed at meetings because that is not the
purpose of meetings but, then I have never been to one.  I also hear that each
meeting group may be quite different with its own pesonality, etc.

Howard

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] heresy of the 12 steps
Date: June 20, 2004 at 5:21:48 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

We definitly need some live music for the party, I can bring a digital PA system and my gear. Anybody know of a band hip to Ibogaine?

From: Marko <marko@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] 2nd request
Date: June 20, 2004 at 5:09:10 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Howard,

this is a very good question, and all answers are very much appreciated!

Buprenorphine was just legalised for addiction treatment in Slovenija, and
I guess Sacrament of Transition will soon get new members with
buprenorphine problem…

BTW, our top addiction doctors said on the news that they will start using
it in September, not right now. The reason is that MDs have to be educated
first.

Go figure! They could get all education needed on this list ;-))

Marko

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

Dear List,

Has anyone been treated with ibogaine for buprenorphine/subutex or suboxone
dependence??

Any information appreciated.  As there are more and more buprenorphine
dependent patients it may be anticipated we will see more and more of them treated
with ibogaine.  I am seeking information on ibogaine/buprenorphine interaction
with an endpoint of determining can burprenorphine patients be treated with
ibogaine or will buprenorophine have to be substituted by another opioid in
those patients prior to ibogaine therapy?

Howard

Howard S. Lotsof
President
Dora Weiner Foundation
POB 10032
Staten Island, NY 10301-0032
USA
dir tel, 1 718 442-2754
dir fax, 1 718 442-1957
email, dwf123@earthlink.net
http://www.doraweiner.org

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\]=———————————————————————=[/

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[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Bill Wilson and LSD
Date: June 20, 2004 at 5:02:07 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

All I know is that if I hadn’t found AA I would most definitly had been dead. I don’t think if Bill did acid or not deminishes what help the big book has done for mankind. I’m an acoholic stoned junkie and if I hadn’t quit drinking first I would have never been lucid enough to find ibogaine.       I’m ready to attack the next addiction.          Randy

From: Slip Stream <slipstream@hipplanet.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] DEA Journals
Date: June 20, 2004 at 2:42:25 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks Patrick this is a great resource. My favorite part is this message

http://www.dea.gov/programs/forensicsci/microgram/archives.html

Wonder why they de classified all of it.

Requests for Microgram Archives, 1967 – 2002

All issues of Microgram (November 1967 – March 2002) and the first nine issues of its successor Microgram Bulletin (April – December, 2002) were Law Enforcement Restricted publications, and are therefore (permanently) unavailable to the general public. [Note that this restriction includes requests made under the Freedom of Information (FOI) Act.]

Past issues or individual sections of issues (e.g., specific articles) are available to law enforcement affiliated offices and laboratories. Requests from such offices and laboratories must be made on official letterhead and mailed to:

Deputy Assistant Administrator
Office of Forensic Sciences
Drug Enforcement Administration
2401 Jefferson Davis Highway
Alexandria, VA 22301

Note that requests made via email will not be honored.

— “jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu> wrote:
In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3
seconds….

HI all,
I’m forwarding this again, as just at the first link I opened, the
one
for April 2004, I find Patrick is correct that this is great reading
material, and great for research too, and I want to be sure everyone
sees
this site with its photos of imprinted cocaine bricks and “the first
encounter with either yopo seeds or bufotenine at the laboratory”
photos.

http://www.dea.gov/programs/forensicsci/microgram/mg0404/mg0404.html

Man, they must have some shitty chemists at the DEA…

the main chemicals in yopo seeds are DMT and 5-MEO-DMT. There might be
trace amounts of bufotenine in  them, i’m not sure offhand, but there’s
definately no psilocin in them.

_____________________________________________________________
Find out what’s HIP!
Visit Hip Planet for news, shopping, forums, chatrooms, free personal and classified ads and much more!
Get your FREE 20 MB Website or FREE E-MAIL! at HipPlanet now!

It’s all waiting for you, at http://www.hipplanet.com

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] heresy of the 12 steps
Date: June 20, 2004 at 2:16:09 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

That would be sooo fucking cool! Count me in! Just make it long enough away that I can save a few $$ and ask time off for work!
Callie

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] heresy of the 12 steps
Date: June 20, 2004 at 2:15:51 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I could proabably make it to NYC for a mindvoxmeat…oh, hold on, I’m
already IN NYC.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Vector Vector” <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2004 1:17 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] heresy of the 12 steps

Yeahhhhhh!

I think this is long overdue. Mindvox had parties in the 90’s at
Limelight, something called ‘MK’s’? dumps on the lower east side. They
were called VoxMeats 🙂

I think they helped push everything over the cliff the first time,
that’s also where the internet sex chart started 🙂

http://www.mindvox.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/MindVoxUI.woa/wa/staticpage%3fpagename=Akashic/MindVoxFC.html

If you look up Mindvox on the open encyclopedia or everything 2, what
it’s cross referenced with besides the hacker underground and mental
illness is sex, drugs, mismanagement. 🙂 🙂 🙂 No reading it now
they’ve added charles bukowski, ibogaine, heroin, william burroughs and
‘Don’t force your not forcing one’s philosophy on others philosophy on
me’

I’m so there! VoxMeat in NYC this fall or winter? (give those of us who
aren’t there a chance to make plans! I want to go but for real not
posting a I want to go message and to go I need to make plans get a
cheap plane ticket and show up! VoxMeat and ibogaine conference before
or after?

Great idea Callie and Jon, not a new one but I think we’re long overdue
to meet!!! I was around 6 when Mindvox was going crazy, I want a chance
at all the madness too! 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

.:vector:.

— Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com> wrote:

This is a great idea! 🙂 I’ll go!

Carla B

— “jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu> wrote:
In the United States alone, someone checks their
email every 3 seconds….

Too bad we can’t all party together! It would be
an intellectual
blast! We could all trip and solve the problems
of the world!

I think we should.

Ibo bananas that fizz in the mouth and the DEA’s
stash of Candy Bars as
treats for the more adventurous.

you know, i’d always thought that a mindvox
convention would be an
incredible time…

=)

__________________________________
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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] 12 steps
Date: June 20, 2004 at 2:13:19 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I am so fascinated to learn all this stuff about Bill W!
The only AA books I have read and studies are the Big Book and Twelve and Twelve.
I plan to get copy of Pass it On.
I just wonder why after all my experience in meetings I have never heard this discussed. It is probably because I live so far south, Tennessee.
I have been to many Big Book discussions and this was never brought up. It doesn’t address it straight forward in the Big Book though.
Makes me want to go to AA meeting just to stir up a lively discussion! hahahahaha!!
I will need more references before I do that!
Peace, Callie

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] *_*_* [OT] – cool animation
Date: June 20, 2004 at 2:03:46 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

off topic and not for the broadband challenged… file size 33.9 MB

http://www2.ati.com/misc/demos/ATI-9700-animusic-Movie-v1.0.mpg

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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] heresy of the 12 steps
Date: June 20, 2004 at 1:17:19 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yeahhhhhh!

I think this is long overdue. Mindvox had parties in the 90’s at
Limelight, something called ‘MK’s’? dumps on the lower east side. They
were called VoxMeats 🙂

I think they helped push everything over the cliff the first time,
that’s also where the internet sex chart started 🙂

http://www.mindvox.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/MindVoxUI.woa/wa/staticpage%3fpagename=Akashic/MindVoxFC.html

If you look up Mindvox on the open encyclopedia or everything 2, what
it’s cross referenced with besides the hacker underground and mental
illness is sex, drugs, mismanagement. 🙂 🙂 🙂 No reading it now
they’ve added charles bukowski, ibogaine, heroin, william burroughs and
‘Don’t force your not forcing one’s philosophy on others philosophy on
me’

I’m so there! VoxMeat in NYC this fall or winter? (give those of us who
aren’t there a chance to make plans! I want to go but for real not
posting a I want to go message and to go I need to make plans get a
cheap plane ticket and show up! VoxMeat and ibogaine conference before
or after?

Great idea Callie and Jon, not a new one but I think we’re long overdue
to meet!!! I was around 6 when Mindvox was going crazy, I want a chance
at all the madness too! 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

.:vector:.

— Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com> wrote:

This is a great idea! 🙂 I’ll go!

Carla B

— “jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu> wrote:
In the United States alone, someone checks their
email every 3 seconds….

Too bad we can’t all party together! It would be
an intellectual
blast! We could all trip and solve the problems
of the world!

I think we should.

Ibo bananas that fizz in the mouth and the DEA’s
stash of Candy Bars as
treats for the more adventurous.

you know, i’d always thought that a mindvox
convention would be an
incredible time…

=)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – 100MB free storage!
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From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] heresy of the 12 steps
Date: June 20, 2004 at 12:59:11 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This is a great idea! 🙂 I’ll go!

Carla B

— “jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu> wrote:
In the United States alone, someone checks their
email every 3 seconds….

Too bad we can’t all party together! It would be
an intellectual
blast! We could all trip and solve the problems
of the world!

I think we should.

Ibo bananas that fizz in the mouth and the DEA’s
stash of Candy Bars as
treats for the more adventurous.

you know, i’d always thought that a mindvox
convention would be an
incredible time…

=)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – 100MB free storage!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

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From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] digest or unsubscribe
Date: June 20, 2004 at 12:58:18 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com, mindmesh@yahoo.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Daniel, all the commands are here

http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html

You can just click it to sign up to the digest and
sign off the main list 🙂

Love all of you and thanks to the sooo many people who
all wrote me email offlist, I was having a bad night!
🙂

Carla B

— Daniel McGuire <mindmesh@yahoo.com> wrote:
I really apologise for putting this on the main
list, but I don’t find the
list options on the link at the bottom of every
message anywhere.  My box
is swarmed with these messages and I can’t read them
all, so I really need
to be put on a digest option or be temporarily
unsubscribed until there is
a way to check it via web archives (my most
preferred method).   Thanks in
advance, and no need to reply!

-DM

__________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail is new and improved – Check it out!
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From: “jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] heresy of the 12 steps
Date: June 20, 2004 at 12:46:21 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

Too bad we can’t all party together! It would be an intellectual
blast! We could all trip and solve the problems of the world!

I think we should.

Ibo bananas that fizz in the mouth and the DEA’s stash of Candy Bars as
treats for the more adventurous.

you know, i’d always thought that a mindvox convention would be an
incredible time…

=)

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] digest or unsubscribe
Date: June 20, 2004 at 12:39:14 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi DM (and any others who would like instructions to  change status)
Here is the unsubscribe or digest instructions.
I hate to see anyone leave so try digest for a while!

For help and a description of available commands, send a message to:
<ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>

To subscribe to the list, send a message to:
<ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>

To remove your address from the list, just send a message to
the address in the “List-Unsubscribe” header of any list
message. If you haven’t changed addresses since subscribing,
you can also send a message to:
<ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>

For addition or removal of addresses, I’ll send a confirmation
message to that address. When you receive it, simply reply to it
to complete the transaction.

If you need to get in touch with the human owner of this list,
please send a message to:

<ibogaine-owner@mindvox.com>

Peace!
Callie

From: Daniel McGuire <mindmesh@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] digest or unsubscribe
Date: June 20, 2004 at 12:24:47 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I really apologise for putting this on the main list, but I don’t find the
list options on the link at the bottom of every message anywhere.  My box
is swarmed with these messages and I can’t read them all, so I really need
to be put on a digest option or be temporarily unsubscribed until there is
a way to check it via web archives (my most preferred method).   Thanks in
advance, and no need to reply!

-DM

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail is new and improved – Check it out!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] heresy of the 12 steps
Date: June 19, 2004 at 11:31:29 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Too bad we can’t all party together! It would be an intellectual blast! We could all trip and solve the problems of the world!

I think we should.

Ibo bananas that fizz in the mouth and the DEA’s stash of Candy Bars as treats for the more adventurous.

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] 12 steps
Date: June 19, 2004 at 11:28:48 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’d have to check the chronology… but it may be that LSD wasn’t even invented when Bill W got “sober”.

From everything I’ve read and heard I think Dave is right. I don’t doubt
Bill Wilson had a spiritual awakening and did a lot of work afterwards,
but it isn’t as if god appeared to him on day or maybe he did but he
arrived with the help of drugs 😉

Belladona, morphine and chloryl hydrate was the cocktail being handed
out to the alcoholic detox unit where Bill Wilson was checked into and
that is what he was on when he had his awakening.

He was also a big fan of LSD and wanted to go so far as give it out at
12 step meetings but he didn’t do it until he had somewhere like 20 years
clean.

It would have been very hard for Bill to gain the inspiration for the
12 steps from a acid trip since Hoffman hadn’t even invented it when
the 12 steps started.

Peace out,
Curtis

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

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From: <deartheo@ziplip.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] different interp12 steps
Date: June 19, 2004 at 10:32:54 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Regardless, how the awaking happened.  Didn’t He built a system that has helped plenty after the awaking?  The idea of any plant as medicine can be viewed as threatening by most current 12 step peoples for me to really feel ‘safe’ there.  I think the main problem I have found post ibogaine in 12 steps is,
1. the constant lack of acknoledgement that all drugs aren’t the same.  Their is a common universal compulsion perhaps but that too is subject to individual.
2. Tend to alienate others who can have ‘only one drink’ but who’s objective is to kick opiates, or whatever, if you’ve ever gone long enough perhaps you too have seen the ‘hang with the winners’ clicks.
3. Too often feel threatend by the mere thought of methadone as harm reduction (I wasn’t considered ‘clean’ while on methadone in the large majority of the 12 step groups), or even the idea of iboga or ibogaine, or any use of herb post opiate kick is viewed as a threat that, in their ‘humble’ opinion will without a doubt lead to ‘relaps’.
4. Being tied to one part of my past ‘one day at a time’ for the rest of my life doesn’t sound appealing to me,
5. Also finding a sponsor could be difficult (but possible) in that enviroment
6. If I’m exhausted, unemployed, am unaware of vocational services and educational services, and have limited transportation, is it really in my best interest to sit around and whine about the past or would it perhaps be better to take advantage of what I can do something about,  right here now, in action, regardless how tough it may appear, regardless of all the guilt and fear.  Perhaps Therapy in action is better then therapy in repose?

So I think a network of people who are knowledgeable or at least familier with iboga/ine post iboga/ine could do some good, know anyone?   Because otherwise the ‘therapy time’ just ends up being education time for the doctor, which I’m fine talking to them about, just not at my fiscal expense.  But then what happens after that?  ‘Here take this pill’?
Wasn’t that how I got into all this in the first place?

I do however believe it is possible to work the twelve steps in a differnt way and still recieve some of the benifits without, in my limited view, some of liabilities.  Dropping in to a meeting just to listen, sometimes helps, but I prefer to keep my distance from what I too often see as cookie cutter judgements, I have enough to walk through without adding to it.

—–Original Message—–
From: jon f. [mailto:jfreed1@umbc.edu]
Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2004, 6:25 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] heresy of the 12 steps

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

Sorry, but Bills spiritual experience was not brought on by  LSD. It was a
spiritual experience of the kind most of us addicts seek for and  long for.
He
says his experience was profound and sudden. He quit praying for  himself
and
prayed only for others.

If Bill’s spiritual experience wasn’t brought on by LSD, why did he say it
did himself?

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] heresy of the 12 steps
Date: June 19, 2004 at 10:23:46 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

But Callie, just to reiterate for your info, Bill W. DID INDEED use LSD, for
depression according to at least one theory.

See:

http://silkworth.net/aahistory_names/namest.html

* Tom P. – wife Ginny P.; entered A.A. confirmed atheist, changed mind;
worked Bill editing 12 & 12, A.A. Comes Age; present Los Angeles Veterans
Administration Hospital when Bill took LSD August 29 1956 (A 219) (B 356) (G
16,42) (L 156) (P 271,279,280,301,302,303,354,370-371)
———

http://www.clusterheadaches.com/wwwboard/messages/56223.html

Due to the discussion of LSD as a workable CH treatment and the possible
conflicts with my overall recovery program, I asked my sponsor group for
advice.
I was surprised to find support for the use of LSD by the recovery group,
especially in the older more sober group. It seems Bill W, AA’s founder,
used LSD to fight depression, with success.
Last night I was given an AA-approved book, “Pass It On”, which devotes a
whole chapter to Bill W’s use of LSD. This is AA’s official biography of the
organization’s founder. The reading is facinating.
snip-
—-
This should be enough for starters. There’s plenty more with a quick Google
search.
Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2004 7:42 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] heresy of the 12 steps

Sorry, but Bills spiritual experience was not brought on by LSD. It was a
spiritual experience of the kind most of us addicts seek for and long for.
He says his experience was profound and sudden. He quit praying for himself
and prayed only for others.
We addicts and alcoholics are all very self centered, selfish people and
will not even begin to ‘heal’ until we take ourselves out of the spotlight!
Personally, I encourage everyone, addict, alcoholic or not to read the Big
Book of AA. It is very difficult for us to look beyond the God talk but we
have too. Living a spiritual life to me means focusing less on myself on
more of others.
I know I had too. I walked off and left my two children when they were 8 and
4 and left my husband all for self gratification.
That is why we must honestly take stock of our life. From what I understand
that is what Ibogaine  helps you to do best. It must be a fearless and
selfless, the AA inventory that is.
Well, I will step off the soap box
Callie

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] heresy of the 12 steps
Date: June 19, 2004 at 9:54:02 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 6/19/2004 7:02:48 PM Central Daylight Time, dave@phantom.com writes:
you are right, it was brought on by a series of “cocktails”
Administered to him in the hospital containing… Belladona, Chloral
Hydrate and Morphine, among others…

It wasn’t until many years later that he experienced LSD.

excerpt from:
http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-funny_spirituality.html

wow! I never knew that! I have been to so many AA meetings! I know some old timer big book thumpers that would keel over if you took all those references into a AA meeting! I would love to see it!!! LMAO!
Callie
PS I LOVE that I learn so much on this list! You all are some very cool informed people! Too bad we can’t all party together! It would be an intellectual blast! We could all trip and solve the problems of the world!
From: “jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: [ibogaine] Bill Wilson and LSD
Date: June 19, 2004 at 9:39:11 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ok, so it seems DH was right that  LSD was not what inspired Wilson to
start up AA, but he did feel it helped him become “spiritually
enlightened”.

From “Pass It On”, published by Alcoholics Anonymous:

“Anyway, Bill wanted to see what [LSD] was like. He was intrigued with the
work that Osmond and Hoffer were doing in Saskatoon with alcoholics. And
he thought: ‘Anything that helps the alcoholics is good and shouldn’t be
dismissed out of hand. Techniques should be explored that would help some
guy or gal recover who could not do it through A.A. or any other way.’ He
gave his full enthusiasm [to] what other people were doing along that
line. That’s why he took it himself. He had an experience [that] was
totally spiritual, [like] his initial spiritual experience.

Bill first took LSD in California, under the guidance of Gerald Heard.
Also present was Sidney Cohen, psychiatrist at the Veterans Administration
Hospital. The date was August 29, 1956. Tom P. was there, and he and
Gerald Heard took notes about the events of the afternoon.

Bill was enthusiastic about his experience; he felt it helped him
eliminate many barriers erected by the self, or ego, that stand in the way
of one’s direct experience of the cosmos and of God.”

Alcoholics Anonymous. Pass It On: The story of Bill Wilson and How the
A.A. Message Reached the World. New York: Alcoholics Anonymous World
Services, 1984.

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From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] 12 steps
Date: June 19, 2004 at 9:32:31 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

From everything I’ve read and heard I think Dave is right. I don’t doubt
Bill Wilson had a spiritual awakening and did a lot of work afterwards,
but it isn’t as if god appeared to him on day or maybe he did but he
arrived with the help of drugs 😉

Belladona, morphine and chloryl hydrate was the cocktail being handed
out to the alcoholic detox unit where Bill Wilson was checked into and
that is what he was on when he had his awakening.

He was also a big fan of LSD and wanted to go so far as give it out at
12 step meetings but he didn’t do it until he had somewhere like 20 years
clean.

It would have been very hard for Bill to gain the inspiration for the
12 steps from a acid trip since Hoffman hadn’t even invented it when
the 12 steps started.

Peace out,
Curtis

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
http://www.hushmail.com/services.php?subloc=messenger&l=434

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From: “jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] heresy of the 12 steps
Date: June 19, 2004 at 9:25:04 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

Sorry, but Bills spiritual experience was not brought on by  LSD. It was a
spiritual experience of the kind most of us addicts seek for and  long for. He
says his experience was profound and sudden. He quit praying for  himself and
prayed only for others.

If Bill’s spiritual experience wasn’t brought on by LSD, why did he say it
did himself?

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] heresy of the 12 steps
Date: June 19, 2004 at 8:02:28 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Saturday, June 19, 2004, at 01:42 PM, CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:

Sorry, but Bills spiritual experience was not brought on by LSD.

you are right, it was brought on by a series of “cocktails” administered to him in the hospital containing… Belladona, Chloral Hydrate and Morphine, among others…

It wasn’t until many years later that he experienced LSD.

excerpt from: http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-funny_spirituality.html

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

This is the formula for the “belladonna cure”:

The exact contents of each ingredient is outlined below:

Belladonna Specific

Tincture belladonnae ________________ 62. gm.
Fluidextracti xanthoryli.
Fluidextracti hyoscyami _____________ .31 gm.
(210)

Belladona – Atropa Belladonna

Deadly nightshade; a perennial herb with dark purple flowers and black berries. Leaves and root contain atropine and related alkaloids which are anticholinergic. It is a powerful excitant of the brain with side effects of delirium (wild and talkative), decreased secretion, and diplopia.(211,p.112)

Xanthoxylum – Xanthoxylum Americanum
The dried bark or berries of prickly ash. Alkaloid of Hydrasts. Helps with chronic gastro-intestinal disturbances. Carminative and diaphoretic.(211,p.269)

Hyoscyamus – Hyoskyamos
Henbane, hog’s bean, insane root from the leaves and flowers of Hyoscamus Niger. Contains two alkaloids, hyoscyamine and hyoscine. Nervous system sedative, anticholinergic, and antispasmodic.

————————————————————————
210. Lambert, A. The Obliteration of the Craving for Narcotics. Journal of the A.M.A., 1909, LIII(13):985-989.
211. Hare, H.A. Practical Therapeutics. New York: Lea Bros. & Co., 1904. 10th edition.
————————————————————————
AA: The Way It Began, Bill Pittman, page 165.

That drug cocktail was administered to the detoxing patients hourly, along with “There is also given about every twelve hours a vigorous catharsis of C.C. Pills and blue mass.”12

The vigorous catharsis of C.C. pills and blue mass are outlined below.

C.C. Pills

Extracti colocynthidis compositi ____ .08 gm.
Hydrargyri chloridi mitis ___________ .06 gm.
Cambogiae __________________________ .016 gm.
Resinae jalapae _____________________ .02 gm.

These compound cathartic pills were used to help with perfect bowel elimination, characteristic of this were dark, thick, green mucous stools.(158,p.8)

Blue Mass Pills – pilule catharticae vegetabilis

Extracti colocynthidis compositi ____ .06 gm.
Extracti hyoscyami
Extracti jalapae ____________________ .03 gm.
Extracti leptandrae
Extracti resinae podophylli ________ .015 gm.
Olei mentae piperitae ______________ .008 gm.

When an alcoholic was admitted in the midst of his spree, or at the end of it, the first thing that was done was to put the patient to sleep, and the only medication which preceded his hypnotic was the four C.C. pills. The hypnotic which gave Lambert the best results was the following:

Chlorali hydrati _____________________ 1. gm.
Morphinae __________________________ .008 gm.
Tincturae hyoscyami __________________ 2. gm.
Tincturae zingiberis _________________ .6 gm.
Tincturae capsici ____________________ .3 gm.
Aquae ad _____________________________ 15 gm.

This could be given and the dose repeated in an hour, with or without one or two drachms of paraldehyde. If these were not effective within two hours, or even less, and the patient was of the furious, thrashing, motor type, a hypodermic injection of the following would almost invariably quiet him:

Strychminae suphatis _______________ .002 gm.
Hypseyamin sulphatis ______________ .0006 gm.
Apomorphinae hydrochloridi _________ .006 gm.
(210,p.988)

————————————————————————
158. Towns, C.B. The Sociological Aspect of Treatment of Alcoholism. The Modern Hospital, 1917, 8:103-106.
210. Lambert, A. The Obliteration of the Craving for Narcotics. Journal of the A.M.A., 1909, LIII(13):985-989.
————————————————————————
AA: The Way It Began, Bill Pittman, pages 166-167.

Dr. Lambert gave these instructions for administration of the drug mixture:

The amount necessary to give is judged by the physiologic action of the belladonna it contains. When the face becomes flushed, the throat dry, and the pupils of the eyes dilated, you must cut down your mixture or cease giving it altogether, until these symptoms pass. You must, however, push this mixture until these symptoms appear, or you will not obtain a clear cut cessation of the desire for the narcotic.
Bill W. and Mister Wilson — The Legend and Life of A.A.’s Cofounder, Matthew J. Raphael, pages 87-88.

Dr. Lambert and Charles Towns were quite aware of the hallucinogenic properties of belladonna:

Close observation is necessary in treating the alcoholic in regard to the symptoms of the intoxication of belladonna, as alcoholics are sensitive to the effects of belladonna delirium. According to Lambert, it is a less furious and less pugnacious delirium than that for alcohol. The patients are more persistent and more insistent in their ideas and more incisive in their speech concerning hallucinations. The hallucinations of alcohol are usually those of an occupation delirium; those of belladonna are not. The various hallucinations of alcohol follow each other so quickly that a man is busily occupied in observing them one after another. The belladonna delirium is apt to be confined to one or two ideas on which the patient is very insistent. If these symptoms of belladonna intoxication occur, of course, the specific must be discontinued; then beginning again with the original smaller dose.(210, pp. 987-988) Towns believed the attending physician would find it most difficult to differentiate between alcoholic delirium and belladonna delirium.(208, p. 7)
————————————————————————
208. Towns, C.B. Successful Medical Treatment in Chronic Alcoholism. The Modern Hospital, 1917, 8:6-10.
210. Lambert, A. The Obliteration of the Craving for Narcotics. Journal of the A.M.A., 1909, LIII(13):985-989.
————————————————————————
AA: The Way It Began, Bill Pittman, pages 165 to 166.

In addition, Dr. Lambert liked to put alcoholics to sleep as soon as they came in. He usually used chloral hydrate or paraldehyde, but “Lambert also believed it wise to give most alcoholics 1/60 to 1/30 of a gram of strychnine every four hours.”14 Those who remember the psychedelic sixties will remember that LSD was sometimes laced with the poison strychnine because it enhanced the colors and the vividness of the hallucinations.

That’s the “alcoholism treatment” that Dr. Silkworth gave to Bill Wilson at Towns’ Hospital — four times altogether, in a little over a year.

Even before the Ice Age, belladonnas were used world-wide in religious ceremonies. The drug promoted babbling trances in shamans and other human oracles…
Belladonna had two salient advantages for the cure specialists. Because it annulled morphine’s mental clarity and euphoria by replacing it with a drowsy, babbling disconnected stupor, it became established in science as morphine anti-toxin (artificial Autotoxin), providing a conceptually elegant framework for ridding the body, once and forever, of every addiction-promoting substance. And belladonna had the important advantage of keeping patients comatose: they wouldn’t even think of sneaking out of the ward, being entirely occupied in talking to their ancestors, and flying through the sky with weird animals.
Flowers in the Blood: the story of opium, Dean Latimer and Jeff Goldberg, page 247.

Bill Wilson’s spiritual experience, or “hot flash,” as he would call it, occurred during the second or third night (depending on the source) of the above treatment. Considering his alcohol and chloral hydrate212 use upon entering Towns and adding this to the hypnotic drugs he received during the first few days of his stay, there is the possibility that his “hot flash,” may have been delusions and hallucinations characteristic of momentary alcoholic toxic psychosis.213,214,215
————————————————————————
212. Wilson, W.G. Those Goof Balls. New York: The Alcoholics Anonymous Grapevine, Inc., November 1945.
213. Johnson, J. M.D. Personal Interview, Ramsey County Medical Center, St. Paul, MN, May 23, 1981.
214. Carlson, J. Pharm. D. Personal Interview, University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, MN, May 21, 1981.
215. Harrison, et al. Principles of Internal Medicine. New York: McGraw-Hill, 1974. 7th edition.
————————————————————————
AA: The Way It Began, Bill Pittman, page 169.

Bill’s visions or hallucinations were also most likely caused by or enhanced by delirium tremens, which is infamous for making people see pink elephants or zillions of crawling bugs or any other weird things that they might fancy. Bill Wilson wrote in the Big Book:

At the hospital I was separated from alcohol for the last time. Treatment seemed wise, for I showed signs of delirium tremens.
The Big Book, 3rd edition, William G. Wilson, Chapter 1, “Bill’s Story”, page 13.

This is Robert Thomsen’s description of Bill Wilson’s “spiritual experience” that occurred December 13 or 14, 1934, after two or three days of detoxing and getting the belladonna cure, and having Ebby Thacher, Rowland Hazard, Shep Cornell, and other Oxford Groupers indoctrinating him while he was tripping:

His fingers relaxed a little on the footboard [of the bed], his arms slowly reached out and up. “I want,” he said aloud. “I want…”
Ever since infancy, they said, he’d been reaching out this way, arms up, fingers spread, and as far back as he could remember he’d been saying just that. But always before it had been an unfinished sentence. Now it had its ending. He wanted to live. He would do anything, anything, to be allowed to go on living.
“Oh, God,” he cried, and it was the sound not of a man, but of a trapped and crippled animal. “If there is a God, show me. Show me. Give me some sign.”
As he formed the words, in that very instant he was aware first of a light, a great white light that filled the room, then he suddenly seemed caught up in a kind of joy, an ecstasy such as he would never find words to describe. It was as though he were standing high on a mountaintop and a strong clear wind blew against him, around him, through him — but it seemed a wind not of air, but of spirit — and as this happened he had the feeling that he was stepping into another world, a new world of consciousness, and everywhere now there was a wondrous feeling of Presence which all his life he had been seeking. Nowhere had he ever felt so complete, so satisfied, so embraced.
This happened. And it happened as suddenly and as definitely as one may receive a shock from an electrode, or feel heat when a hand is placed close to a flame. Then when it passed, when the light slowly dimmed, and the ecstasy subsided — and whether this was a matter of minutes or much longer he never knew; he was beyond any reckoning of time — the sense of Presence was still there about him, within him. And with it there was still another sense, a sense of rightness. No matter how wrong things seemed to be, they were as they were meant to be. There could be no doubt of ultimate order in the universe, the cosmos was not dead matter, but a part of the living Presence, just as he was part of it.
Now, in place of the light, the exaltation, he was filled with a peace such as he had never known. He had heard of men who’d tried to open the universe to themselves; he had opened himself to the universe. He had heard men say there was a bit of God in everyone, but this feeling that he was a part of God, himself a living part of the higher power, was a new and revolutionary feeling.
— Robert Thomsen, Bill W., 1975, pp. 222-223.

Note the power of suggestion at work. Ebby Thacher had been working on Bill for weeks, trying to get him to join the Oxford Group. Bill had decided to give Ebby’s “spiritual” treatment program for alcoholism a try, because he knew that he would die if he kept on drinking. Just a few days earlier, he had gone to Ebby’s Oxford Group meeting at Rev. Sam Shoemaker’s Calvary Mission, and had “given himself to God” during the service. Then he went to Charles Towns’ hospital to detox and quit drinking. Ebby and other Oxford Groupers came and worked on him some more in the hospital, indoctrinating him with more Oxford Group dogma and jabber about God. Then, when the hallucinogens hit, Bill saw “God” — just what he had been programmed to see.

Also see the description of Ebby Thacher playing guilt-tripping mind games on Bill Wilson to cause him to flip out and have his “experience,” in the chapter “The Religious Roots of The Twelve Steps.”

In the A.A. book Alcoholics Anonymous Comes Of Age (1957) Bill Wilson described his experience this way:

All at once I found myself crying out, “If there is a God, let Him show himself! I am ready to do anything, anything!”
Suddenly the room lit up with a great white light. I was caught up in an ecstasy which there are no words to describe. It seemed to me in my mind’s eye, that I was on a mountain and that a wind not of air but of spirit was blowing. And then it burst upon me that I was a free man. Slowly the ecstasy subsided. I lay there on the bed, but now for a time I was in another world, a new world of consciousness… and I thought to myself, “So this is the God of the preachers!” A great peace stole over me…
Alcoholics Anonymous Comes Of Age (1957), William G. Wilson, page 63.

In the book Bill W.: My First 40 Years, Bill Wilson described his religious experience this way:

The terrifying darkness had become complete. In agony of spirit, I again thought of the cancer of alcoholism which had now consumed me in mind and spirit, and soon the body. But what of the Great Physician? For a moment, I suppose, the last trace of my obstinacy was crushed out as the abyss yawned.
I remember saying to myself, “I’ll do anything, anything at all. If there be a Great Physician, I’ll call on him.” Then, with neither faith nor hope I cried out, “If there be a God, let him show himself.” The effect was instant, electric. Suddenly my room blazed with an indescribably white light. I was seized with an ecstasy beyond description. I have no words for this. Every joy I had known was pale by comparison. The light, the ecstasy. I was conscious of nothing else for a time.
Then, seen in the mind’s eye, there was a mountain. I stood upon its summit where a great wind blew. A wind, not of air, but of spirit. In great, clean strength it blew right through me. Then came the blazing thought, “You are a free man.” I know not at all how long I remained in this state, but finally the light and the ecstasy subsided. I again saw the wall of my room. As I became more quiet a great peace stole over me, and this was accompanied by a sensation difficult to describe. I became acutely conscious of a presence which seemed like a veritable sea of living spirit. I lay on the shores of a new world. “This,” I thought, “must be the great reality. The God of the preachers.”
Savoring my new world, I remained in this state for a long time. I seemed to be possessed by the absolute, and the curious conviction deepened that no matter how wrong things seemed to be, there would be no question of the ultimate rightness of God’s universe. For the first time I felt that I really belonged. I knew that I was loved and could love in return. I thanked God who had given me a glimpse of His absolute Self. Even though a pilgrim upon an uncertain highway, I need be concerned no more, for I had glimpsed the great beyond.
Save a brief hour of doubt next to come, these feelings and convictions, no matter what the vicissitude, have never deserted me since. For a reason that I cannot begin to comprehend, this great and sudden gift of grace has always been mine.
Bill W.: My First 40 Years, William Wilson, pages 145-146.

Note that Mr. Wilson had the power to summon up the Spirit of God, just by demanding that God show himself. Ordinary sorcerers and wizards have to settle for summoning up ordinary demons by name, but not Bill Wilson. Bill waved his arms in the air and commanded God Almighty Himself to appear (and he didn’t even say “Please”):
“If there is a God, show me. Show me. Give me some sign.”
“If there is a God, let Him show himself!”
“If there be a God, let him show himself!”

Whenever I try that trick, it doesn’t work for me. I guess maybe I’m not as spiritual as Bill Wilson was. (Or maybe I need better drugs…)

 

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] heresy of the 12 steps
Date: June 19, 2004 at 7:42:46 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sorry, but Bills spiritual experience was not brought on by LSD. It was a spiritual experience of the kind most of us addicts seek for and long for. He says his experience was profound and sudden. He quit praying for himself and prayed only for others.
We addicts and alcoholics are all very self centered, selfish people and will not even begin to ‘heal’ until we take ourselves out of the spotlight!
Personally, I encourage everyone, addict, alcoholic or not to read the Big Book of AA. It is very difficult for us to look beyond the God talk but we have too. Living a spiritual life to me means focusing less on myself on more of others.
I know I had too. I walked off and left my two children when they were 8 and 4 and left my husband all for self gratification.
That is why we must honestly take stock of our life. From what I understand that is what Ibogaine  helps you to do best. It must be a fearless and selfless, the AA inventory that is.
Well, I will step off the soap box
Callie

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine advocacy @ Kerry Internet Town Mtg
Date: June 19, 2004 at 7:30:18 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dana… check below

To Dr. Doom, and everyone else;

The only real solution to corruption is twofold: accountability of public servants and having a system whereby people are not prone to do said acts.

But why not end the WoD? What do you propose to do with the hundreds of billions which are thrown down the drain every year, and since we’re talking nonsense what about the trillions already down the drain. This law enforcement is working for nothing you can justify beyond money, and a twisted sense of morality. Use does not equate abuse. Abuse is a social problem. It might be possible to put users in treatment instead of prison and if things were legalized it would provide tax revenue as well as a sharp and well needed decline in funding for street gangs and rebels who are presently packing a lot of heat.

Whats silly though is that ibogaine, a schedule 1 substance has amazing potential as a treatment for abuse.

is it silly that ibogaine has amazing potential? or is it silly that ibogaine is a schedule 1 substance and is currently unavailable in the U.S. as a legitimate and authorized treatment modality? I would rephrase that sentence ^ up there.

It is already used in many places and has had many successes. Obviously some people will choose to use drugs, obviously some people will choose to abuse them. I think psychological counseling (almost all times hardcore addiction for psychological reasons is caused by underlying psychological problems) with some positive feedback from the world around the drug user, as well as a dose of religion, spirituality or some sort of belief in an order in our universe (and im not saying force the word ‘god’ down people’s throats).

Whats even more silly is schedule 1 substances like psilocybin mushrooms, LSD, mescaline, MDMA and DMT would all assist greatly in treating the underlying causes of much of this addiction (pathology of consciousness).

again, this sentence is saying it is silly that afore mentioned substances would assist greatly in treating…

Tryptamines and molecules of like structure (DMT, LSD, psilocybin) can produce fantastic experiences in which the subject might feel like there is more depth and meaning to their existence. Its hard to explain to a non-‘drug’ user but I’ll post some information on all of this at the end of my rant. MDMA has recently been re-proven to have theraputic value in creating empathy or compassion which might make an addict or abuser feel more guilty and repentant about the negativity they have impressed upon those around them. Mescaline, and other phenalthylamines have effects similar to those of tryptamines and related compounds; mescaline having a quasi-proven reputation as more spiritual (other worldly) than any of the above save maybe DMT. These drugs also have VERY low potential for abuse. There is some danger of people wanting to become hippies but I think that is increased not decreased on an individual level by our current drug policy where we seek to isolate, alienate and eradicate drug use, and coincidentally drug users.

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/ibogaine/ibogaine.shtml

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/ibogaine/i…_journal2.shtml

And that’s just the tip of the iceberg for ibogaine. Search around a bit and educate yourself on the wide array of material available!

http://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mus…research2.shtml

Check out the links in the beginning of this one:http://www.maps.org/news-letters/v07n1/07110bag.html

http://www.erowid.org/psychoactives/guides…ook_lsd25.shtml

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/mdma/mdma_research4.shtml

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/mdma/refer…ps_mdma_1.shtml

This ones esp relevant: http://www.maps.org/news-letters/v05n3/05327coc.html

http://www.erowid.org/psychoactives/psychoactives.shtml

This is a good place to start concerning some different (but one can hardly speculate who is more or less correct, esp when your stats seem to be fairly on ball) perspectives on costs of the WoD. I can point out specifics if one feels I shouldŠhttp://www.erowid.org/psychoactives/statis…tatistics.shtml

As for the problem with potential danger concerning the initial flood of drugs I would suggest a slow legalization. MJ and ibogaine first, follow maybe in 1 month by a slow trickle of psychedelics until they are all out there. Than start with coca plants and poppies working up to pure cocaine, meth and opium isolates/derivatives. It might take 1 to four years to do it they way but I think impact would be made smallest if the first few days of every ‘flood’ were treated like fourth of july (cop everywhere checking things out, being liberal with the traffic stops) but you cant have it as a fine to use, or be in possession of; just to be using in the car or while driving and to be impaired while operating a motor vehicle. I would also add in reference to drugs like heroin, meth and cocaine that use, and often abuse is not made better by prohibition. It forces these people to crime and prostitution which degrades our society morally and socially. It wastes countless dollars, which are for the most part not made up through our policy of imprisonment. I would point back to some of the points ive made on treatment options though psychology, and psychedelics as well as to twelve step programs and the introduction and more importantly genuine acceptance of religion or metaphysical order which serves to further universal good. Keep in mind even heavy enough taxation to support the problems each substance causes and their solutions would make many of these substances cheaper, and purer than they are in their present form. It would also keep those % users who can still function and contribute to society out of prison. Than there is creation of non-black market jobs. All that’s still more tax money!

Dr. Doom I must address some of you figures on costs of drug use. Rehab costs could be dramatically reduced if a 24 hours ibogaine detox program was the initial option with psychological counseling as long as/if needed. But many times MJ users are put in treatment wrongly as they cause such minimal harm! HIV/AIDS and hepatitis costs would be reduced by needle exchange/clean needle programs. Notice incarceration and crime costs are the top two (something like 63 billion!). Junkies wouldn’t need to rob people if drugs were legal! Its simple, prices would drop, purity would increase; there would also be minimal alienation thus allowing them to hold what job they could do in their state. Ill also post some stuff about a lot of the misconceptions associated with health problems connection with drug use.

http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/Librar…ies/cu/cu12.htm

“Dr. Roger C. Smith here adds a highly significant fact about the intravenous-amphetamine euphoria. Many young people in our culture are brought up with a seriously damaged self-image. The methods of discipline imposed upon them as children, or other factors, convince them of their own inherent worthlessness, though they may mask this sense of worthlessness with bravado. “Many of the young people who are currently involved in the speed scene,” Dr. Smith notes, “report that they were initially attracted to the drug because of the instant improvement noted in self-image. Many suffered from feelings of inferiority and lack of self worth, which manifested itself in chronic, and often debilitating, depression.” from:http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/Librar…es/cu/CU37.html
With the main site: http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/Librar…s/cu/cumenu.htm

——————–
http://forum.johnkerry.com/index.php?showtopic=11770&hl=illicit+drugs+terrorism

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine advocacy @ Kerry Internet Town Mtg
Date: June 19, 2004 at 5:38:33 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Dana,

Really liked the piece.  I was thinking that election year is always a good time to draw attention to this subject, with the media watching everything and anything concerning the election.

Sean

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Ibogaine advocacy @ Kerry Internet Town Mtg
Date: June 19, 2004 at 5:30:48 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

climbingthegreatbluecliffs
Posted: Jun 18 2004, 02:27 PM

The following is the tentative ‘final draft’ of something i plan on posting on the freeconservatives.com political forum in the crooked cops and WoD thread. I though id post this since none of their admin over there have taken the minute required to do whatever they have to do so i can post, plus its a straightforward and clear opinion on the WoID.
__________________________________________________________________
First off id like to tell everyone I am what most would consider a ‘drug’ user and what some might consider a social problem and morally and intellectually degenerated individual! The thing is if you try any funny “expletive deleted” with me ill do my best to disturb your life in whatever way, and to whatever extreme I feel is justified from a perspective of preservation of ones own existence. However I don’t really do anything to harm others, or their possessions beyond demanding a bit to eat in exchange for whatever reasonable services are required of me so I don’t see why anyone would want to push me into berserker (im generally a pretty considerate person, although I am not level headed, but neither am I disturbed, when I become frustrated ) mode or put it on delay, or timed release. If it wasn’t for my belief that the human consciousness is only as static as it is caused to be and is basically rational but often becomes irrational in dealing with the harsh, and often unnecessary, realities of modern life, I would agree with ‘FUG’ing (letters used by romans to tattoo runaway slaves on their foreheads) certain criminals

To Dr. Doom, and everyone else;

The only real solution to corruption is twofold: accountability of public servants and having a system whereby people are not prone to do said acts.

But why not end the WoD? What do you propose to do with the hundreds of billions which are thrown down the drain every year, and since we’re talking nonsense what about the trillions already down the drain. This law enforcement is working for nothing you can justify beyond money, and a twisted sense of morality. Use does not equate abuse. Abuse is a social problem. It might be possible to put users in treatment instead of prison and if things were legalized it would provide tax revenue as well as a sharp and well needed decline in funding for street gangs and rebels who are presently packing a lot of heat.

Whats silly though is that ibogaine, a schedule 1 substance has amazing potential as a treatment for abuse. It is already used in many places and has had many successes. Obviously some people will choose to use drugs, obviously some people will choose to abuse them. I think psychological counseling (almost all times hardcore addiction for psychological reasons is caused by underlying psychological problems) with some positive feedback from the world around the drug user, as well as a dose of religion, spirituality or some sort of belief in an order in our universe (and im not saying force the word ‘god’ down people’s throats).

Whats even more silly is schedule 1 substances like psilocybin mushrooms, LSD, mescaline, MDMA and DMT would all assist greatly in treating the underlying causes of much of this addiction (pathology of consciousness). Tryptamines and molecules of like structure (DMT, LSD, psilocybin) can produce fantastic experiences in which the subject might feel like there is more depth and meaning to their existence. Its hard to explain to a non-‘drug’ user but I’ll post some information on all of this at the end of my rant. MDMA has recently been re-proven to have theraputic value in creating empathy or compassion which might make an addict or abuser feel more guilty and repentant about the negativity they have impressed upon those around them. Mescaline, and other phenalthylamines have effects similar to those of tryptamines and related compounds; mescaline having a quasi-proven reputation as more spiritual (other worldly) than any of the above save maybe DMT. These drugs also have VERY low potential for abuse. There is some danger of people wanting to become hippies but I think that is increased not decreased on an individual level by our current drug policy where we seek to isolate, alienate and eradicate drug use, and coincidentally drug users.

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/ibogaine/ibogaine.shtml

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/ibogaine/i…_journal2.shtml

And that’s just the tip of the iceberg for ibogaine. Search around a bit and educate yourself on the wide array of material available!

http://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mus…research2.shtml

Check out the links in the beginning of this one:http://www.maps.org/news-letters/v07n1/07110bag.html

http://www.erowid.org/psychoactives/guides…ook_lsd25.shtml

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/mdma/mdma_research4.shtml

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/mdma/refer…ps_mdma_1.shtml

This ones esp relevant: http://www.maps.org/news-letters/v05n3/05327coc.html

http://www.erowid.org/psychoactives/psychoactives.shtml

This is a good place to start concerning some different (but one can hardly speculate who is more or less correct, esp when your stats seem to be fairly on ball) perspectives on costs of the WoD. I can point out specifics if one feels I shouldŠhttp://www.erowid.org/psychoactives/statis…tatistics.shtml

As for the problem with potential danger concerning the initial flood of drugs I would suggest a slow legalization. MJ and ibogaine first, follow maybe in 1 month by a slow trickle of psychedelics until they are all out there. Than start with coca plants and poppies working up to pure cocaine, meth and opium isolates/derivatives. It might take 1 to four years to do it they way but I think impact would be made smallest if the first few days of every ‘flood’ were treated like fourth of july (cop everywhere checking things out, being liberal with the traffic stops) but you cant have it as a fine to use, or be in possession of; just to be using in the car or while driving and to be impaired while operating a motor vehicle. I would also add in reference to drugs like heroin, meth and cocaine that use, and often abuse is not made better by prohibition. It forces these people to crime and prostitution which degrades our society morally and socially. It wastes countless dollars, which are for the most part not made up through our policy of imprisonment. I would point back to some of the points ive made on treatment options though psychology, and psychedelics as well as to twelve step programs and the introduction and more importantly genuine acceptance of religion or metaphysical order which serves to further universal good. Keep in mind even heavy enough taxation to support the problems each substance causes and their solutions would make many of these substances cheaper, and purer than they are in their present form. It would also keep those % users who can still function and contribute to society out of prison. Than there is creation of non-black market jobs. All that’s still more tax money!

Dr. Doom I must address some of you figures on costs of drug use. Rehab costs could be dramatically reduced if a 24 hours ibogaine detox program was the initial option with psychological counseling as long as/if needed. But many times MJ users are put in treatment wrongly as they cause such minimal harm! HIV/AIDS and hepatitis costs would be reduced by needle exchange/clean needle programs. Notice incarceration and crime costs are the top two (something like 63 billion!). Junkies wouldn’t need to rob people if drugs were legal! Its simple, prices would drop, purity would increase; there would also be minimal alienation thus allowing them to hold what job they could do in their state. Ill also post some stuff about a lot of the misconceptions associated with health problems connection with drug use.

http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/Librar…ies/cu/cu12.htm

“Dr. Roger C. Smith here adds a highly significant fact about the intravenous-amphetamine euphoria. Many young people in our culture are brought up with a seriously damaged self-image. The methods of discipline imposed upon them as children, or other factors, convince them of their own inherent worthlessness, though they may mask this sense of worthlessness with bravado. “Many of the young people who are currently involved in the speed scene,” Dr. Smith notes, “report that they were initially attracted to the drug because of the instant improvement noted in self-image. Many suffered from feelings of inferiority and lack of self worth, which manifested itself in chronic, and often debilitating, depression.” from:http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/Librar…es/cu/CU37.html
With the main site: http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/Librar…s/cu/cumenu.htm

——————–
http://forum.johnkerry.com/index.php?showtopic=11770&hl=illicit+drugs+terrorism

From: “jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Hello!
Date: June 19, 2004 at 5:04:27 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

Hi Dave,

That is probably true, once they go to collection, they will show up.

Yeah, that’s been my experience with  hospital bills.

So you should be cool till it goes to collection, which has taken up to a
year for me..

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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Hello!
Date: June 19, 2004 at 4:21:28 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Dave,

That is probably true, once they go to collection, they will show up.

Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] heresy of the 12 steps
Date: June 19, 2004 at 4:18:51 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Randy,

Funny you asked that.  I was telling my NA friend about ibogaine, and she had the same question.

Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] heresy of the 12 steps
Date: June 19, 2004 at 4:16:26 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi,

Wilson had his “white light” experience with belladonna.  Years later he tried LSD to see if it could about the spiritual awakening which he found so helpful to his recovery.

By the standards of many AAers today, of course, this would be a relapse, as he was 20 years “sober” when he tripped.  After years of sitting in AA meetings which had pictures of Bill on the walls, it still cracks me up to picture that guy tripping on acid.

Sean

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Hello!
Date: June 19, 2004 at 4:11:45 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

And I think you are right about hospital bills not appearing on the credit report in the US.

mine showed up, probably because the hospital sent it to a collection agency.

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Hello!
Date: June 19, 2004 at 4:06:49 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Jim,

Thanks for the info.  It is sure worth trying.  And I think you are right about hospital bills not appearing on the credit report in the US.

I will be attending wakes for my grandmother the rest of the weekend.  Seeing family as a heroin/crack addict with HIV is not always the easiest thing.  When people ask “how are you,” sometimes I want to tell them everything, but usually answer OK…

Some close relatives know what’s up, and I haven’t seen them in a while.  But I think just showing up is the important thing.  It really means a lot to my parents, and I really have put them hell, so I don’t want to disappoint them on this one.

Sean

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] heresy of the 12 steps
Date: June 19, 2004 at 2:35:04 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I wonder if they use Ibogaine at Crossroads Center Antigua, Eric Claptons re-hab?

i seriously doubt that.

although they ought to.

Clapton is, or should i say, last I knew… a serious 12 stepper. He even performed live at a NA covention I once attended. Its actually the main reason I went.

From: Im Wasted <im_waste_d@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] heresy of the 12 steps
Date: June 19, 2004 at 2:32:12 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

no they don’t. antigua is a hardcore 12 step dump. no
ibogaine nothing but 12 steps. I’ve been dumped there
twice. Clapton might have been a good musician before
doing elevater music but his rehab sucks.

— BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote: > I wonder if they
use Ibogaine at Crossroads Center
Antigua, Eric
Claptons re-hab?

___________________________________________________________ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – sooooo many all-new ways to express yourself http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] heresy of the 12 steps
Date: June 19, 2004 at 2:07:36 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I wonder if they use Ibogaine at Crossroads Center Antigua, Eric Claptons re-hab?

From: “jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: Fw: [ibogaine] DEA Journals
Date: June 19, 2004 at 1:43:59 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: drugwar@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

HI all,
I’m forwarding this again, as just at the first link I opened, the one
for April 2004, I find Patrick is correct that this is great reading
material, and great for research too, and I want to be sure everyone sees
this site with its photos of imprinted cocaine bricks and “the first
encounter with either yopo seeds or bufotenine at the laboratory” photos.

http://www.dea.gov/programs/forensicsci/microgram/mg0404/mg0404.html

Man, they must have some shitty chemists at the DEA…

the main chemicals in yopo seeds are DMT and 5-MEO-DMT. There might be
trace amounts of bufotenine in  them, i’m not sure offhand, but there’s
definately no psilocin in them.

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From: “jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] DEA Journals
Date: June 19, 2004 at 1:35:42 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

Whut I wanna know is … where the hell do they sell all the heroin
furniture landing in Miami and how come I can never find that
sTore?!?!!?!?!

Speaking of heroin furniture..   how about some opium soup?

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/world/wire/sns-ap-china-opium-soup,0,4886996.story?coll=sns-ap-world-headlines

=)

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From: “jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] re: Ethnogarden
Date: June 19, 2004 at 1:34:22 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

Jon,

Why don’t your write them and ask what the percentage of alkaloids is in
their rootbark?

Then we can begin some reality testing.

Great idea =)

I wrote them yesterday asking that, and how much they might be planning on
charging for the extract they were talking about. I’ll post to the list
when i hear back from them.

jon

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From: “jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] heresy of the 12 steps
Date: June 19, 2004 at 1:33:23 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-heresy.html

and… Bill Wilson’s ‘spiritual experience’… a Belladona Trip!

http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-
funny_spirituality.html#spiritualexperience

I haven’t read it, but supposedly, in his autobiograhy, Wilson wrote about
how he got the inspiration for starting AA after taking LSD..

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] 2nd request
Date: June 19, 2004 at 12:41:03 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear List,

Has anyone been treated with ibogaine for buprenorphine/subutex or suboxone
dependence??

Any information appreciated.  As there are more and more buprenorphine
dependent patients it may be anticipated we will see more and more of them treated
with ibogaine.  I am seeking information on ibogaine/buprenorphine interaction
with an endpoint of determining can burprenorphine patients be treated with
ibogaine or will buprenorophine have to be substituted by another opioid in
those patients prior to ibogaine therapy?

Howard

Howard S. Lotsof
President
Dora Weiner Foundation
POB 10032
Staten Island, NY 10301-0032
USA
dir tel, 1 718 442-2754
dir fax, 1 718 442-1957
email, dwf123@earthlink.net
http://www.doraweiner.org

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From: <deartheo@ziplip.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Undergound Water Source
Date: June 19, 2004 at 12:35:15 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“But who’s to say at some distant moment their might be an assembly line producing a gentle product in the form of a grandmother.  Who’s stock and trade is Love.  Fable?  Sure.  But who’s to say.”
“And the biggest problem is the way the problems happen, and consequently the ways to prevent them are not fully understood.”
“I’d like to think of engineering as an attempt at avoidance of failier.”
I can’t recall ‘birth Number’
“It’s the heart I have to enter.  The child’s heart.  This is a deep place.  Difficult to reach.  But that soon will come.”
“A new high tech error prone system that runs the same reliable software that never crashes at your home or office”  “See, it’s just like the person who sells it says.”
(press play on the box) “I don’t understand you” says ‘They Might Be Giants’ Inc

More options for Post Iboga/ine ‘aftercare’:
Wash Set and Setting.  Wash with good soap, ‘purge/let go’ when rinsing.  Listen good to the lessons of sacred underground water source history.
“For ensemble:
IT (IT is the title)
Think NOTHING
Wait until it is absolutely still within you
When you have attained this begin to play
As soon as you start to think, stop
And try to re-attain
The state of NON-THINKING
Then contune playing
-and so on.  When we first played this text with our group, at a music festival in Brussels, we pruposely had not played it before, and against all expectations, it worked.”
Page 120-125. ISBN 0-7145-2887-0  barcode 9 780714528878
“Papaw.”

http://www.enneagramofawakening.com/

http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/dis_sample_36.asp
http://www.enneagramcentral.com/eenstudy.htm
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From: Jules Siegel <siegel@cafecancun.com>
Subject: Re: [drugwar] Fw: [ibogaine] DEA Journals
Date: June 19, 2004 at 11:16:24 AM EDT
To: drugwar@mindvox.com
Reply-To: drugwar@mindvox.com

Preston Peet wrote:

HI all,
I’m forwarding this again, as just at the first link I opened, the one
for April 2004, I find Patrick is correct that this is great reading
material, and great for research too, and I want to be sure everyone sees
this site with its photos of imprinted cocaine bricks and “the first
encounter with either yopo seeds or bufotenine at the laboratory” photos.
http://www.dea.gov/programs/forensicsci/microgram/mg0404/mg0404.html
It’s really a great research resource. I’ve been complaining to journalists such as the NY Times’ Tim Weiner for years about the way Cancun is so often described in the press as the “narco-resort.” Yet this site has only fifteen mentions of Cancun, most of them in reports to Congress, not the main pages. It’s telling that the section on Mexico does not mention Cancun as a smuggling center and never mentions it in connection with cocaine. None of the narco kings that they feature is headquartered in Cancun.


JULES SIEGEL Apdo. 1005 77501-Cancun Q. Roo Mexico
http://www.cafecancun.com/bookarts/robot.htm

Newsroom-l, news and issues for journalists
http://www.newsroom-l.net

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From: “Jack R. Lebowitz” <jack@netspace.org>
Subject: Re: [drugwar] Fw: [ibogaine] DEA Journals
Date: June 19, 2004 at 10:22:06 AM EDT
To: drugwar@mindvox.com
Reply-To: drugwar@mindvox.com

At 08:45 6/19/2004, Preston wrote:
HI all,
I’m forwarding this again, as just at the first link I opened, the one
for April 2004, I find Patrick is correct that this is great reading
material, and great for research too, and I want to be sure everyone sees
this site with its photos of imprinted cocaine bricks and “the first
encounter with either yopo seeds or bufotenine at the laboratory” photos.

This Microgram Bulletin of the DEA is hilarious, Preston.

I think one of the following items with photo is a hoot.

Yes, folks, while those like my friend David in Seattle are still processing the recent information that, accoring to the 9/11 commission, those who worked on the 86th floor of the Seattle tower like my friend were almost 9/11’ed along with the other 3,000 peeps in NYC, we had time to intercept those oh-so-dangerous four green THC-laden lollipops from a departing passenger passing through security at Oakland International Airport:

– INTELLIGENCE ALERT –

LOLLIPOPS CONTAINING THC IN OAKLAND, CALIFORNIA

Photo 5

The Oakland Police Department Crime Laboratory (Oakland, California) recently received a case that included methamphetamine (0.41 grams), hashish (0.93 grams), MDMA (three clear, unmarked capsules containing white powder, weight not reported), and four green lollipops (total net mass 13.68 grams) suspected of containing THC (see Photo 5). The evidence was seized by the Oakland Police Department from a departing passenger at the Oakland International Airport who attempted to pass through a security checkpoint. The lollipops were 1.5 inches in diameter, were labelled “THCees Candies”, and had the California Health and Safety code for medicinal marijuana. The labels also indicated that the lollipops were flavored (see Photo 5; other flavors included grape and “Dr. Pepper”). Analysis of one of the lollipops by GC/MS confirmed THC (not quantitated). This is the first such submission to the laboratory.

http://www.dea.gov/programs/forensicsci/microgram/mg0404/mg0404.html

J

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Fw: [ibogaine] DEA Journals
Date: June 19, 2004 at 8:45:54 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

HI all,
I’m forwarding this again, as just at the first link I opened, the one
for April 2004, I find Patrick is correct that this is great reading
material, and great for research too, and I want to be sure everyone sees
this site with its photos of imprinted cocaine bricks and “the first
encounter with either yopo seeds or bufotenine at the laboratory” photos.

http://www.dea.gov/programs/forensicsci/microgram/mg0404/mg0404.html

Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, June 18, 2004 7:52 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] DEA Journals

These are absolutely fucking hysterical:

http://www.dea.gov/programs/forensicsci/microgram/

Check the Microgram Bulletins.

Whut I wanna know is … where the hell do they sell all the heroin
furniture landing in Miami and how come I can never find that
sTore?!?!!?!?!

Patrick

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [drugwar] Re: [ibogaine] DEA Journals
Date: June 19, 2004 at 8:39:08 AM EDT
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>, <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: drugwar@mindvox.com

Patrick posted the note below, saying “Check the Microgram Bulletins”
and I just wanted to say,

Oh my god, the candybars in the photos at the top of April 2004’s Microgram
bulletin

(http://www.dea.gov/programs/forensicsci/microgram/mg0404/mg0404.html)

are both candybars I myself have eaten, along with a variety of others too.
I love the names they’ve come up with for their product, with “Tainted”
being the name of the company I believe. They come with stickers printed
with a little green medical marijuana leaf symbol and the words, “for
medical use only.” I was handed, a couple years back so they’re long gone-
in case anyone official is reading this and thinks they’d find any on me,
’cause they won’t, they’re LONG GONE NOW- a large baggie with a bunch of
this company’s products inside. Let me tell you they were absolutely
incredible, delicious and I cannot believe the darn things are ILLEGAL!
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, June 18, 2004 7:52 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] DEA Journals

These are absolutely fucking hysterical:

http://www.dea.gov/programs/forensicsci/microgram/

Check the Microgram Bulletins.

Whut I wanna know is … where the hell do they sell all the heroin
furniture landing in Miami and how come I can never find that
sTore?!?!!?!?!

Patrick

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Hello!
Date: June 19, 2004 at 7:45:16 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Sean,

Hey your doing great.  I don’t know what country you live in but in the U.S. they can not post negative credit reports from hospitals.  I could be wrong, they may of changed the law.  Just thought I would let you know.  BTW, I have known many people who go to the hospital a bitch about being charged $5 for an aspirin and $50 for a doc to pop his head in for a minute and ask you “How are we today?” etc. etc.  Many of these people were able to have the bill “adjusted” and saved 1/3 to 2/3.  Also, more than half the hospitals bills are in error, ask for an itemized bill and they you have ammunition to say what the hell your charging me $10 for a pain shot plus  $3 for the syringe that’s BS.  Also, your charging me $10 a foot for the I.V. tube made of plastic and $3.50 for the 18G needle, the 18G needle cost a 25 cents at any drug store, that’s price gouging.  Plus I was discharged at 8:00 pm and you billed be for the following day, you also billed me for pills that I was scheduled to take at 10:00 and charged me for them and I was home at the time.  You may want to think about it.  Like I said I know two or more that got the bill down to 2/3 or 1/3 of the original bill.  Often hospitals will rather get 1/3 of the bill than nothing.  And they know damn good and well their ripping you off.

Wish you the best,

– JIM

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete – You start. We finish.

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] re: Ethnogarden
Date: June 19, 2004 at 4:17:37 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Callie, it’s at www.ibogaine.co.uk

Nick

—– Original Message —–
From: <CallieMimosa@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2004 6:38 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] re: Ethnogarden

Nick, I know I am totally dense BUT where is your site? Would  you post a
link please? I may have visited but didn’t know who to credit it  to!
Peace,
Callie

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Hello!
Date: June 19, 2004 at 3:53:10 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You go Sean!
I honestly admire you for staying clean this 6 days. I have NEVER stayed clean 6 days on my own. I have only been totally drug free the times I was in treatment. The reason I was clean was because I couldn’t get out to use! I got high the day I got out of treatment EVERY time!
You hang in! You are going to do it!
Callie

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] typical poppy pod content question
Date: June 19, 2004 at 3:23:40 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Would you all read the paragraph at the bottom and answer my question please. Many of you will probably be able to answer it without reading below.
Question….Does a typical poppy pod have only 1 or 2 milligrams of opium (morphine/codeine)?
Thanks, Callie

The DEA Western Laboratory (San Francisco, California) recently received some usual submissions of suspected opium poppies, including some that were artificially colored. The poppies were purchased over the Internet by the DEA San Jose Regional Office (combined net mass of three purchases 6.899 kilograms). The dried poppies were being advertised as “floral decorations”. The purchases eventually led to the seizures of 3 boxes of dried poppies from a storage locker in Sacramento, and then an additional 42 boxes of dried poppies from a warehouse in Santa Paula (California). In total, the combined seizures equaled about 25,500 pods, with a net mass of about 120.8 kilograms. The poppy pods were similar in shape but ranged in height from ½ to 2 inches. The poppies were bundled in sets of 15-20 smaller poppies, or 3-10 larger poppies, either wrapped with rubber bands or contained in plastic flower sleeves. Most of the poppies were a natural light brown color, but (as noted above) many were dyed in different colors, including purple, blue, orange, pink, and yellow. Analysis by GC/FID and GC/MS confirmed morphine and codeine. Quantitation of a typical pod indicated 1.72 milligrams of morphine, which extrapolates to about 44 grams of morphine for the entire seizure. This is the first opium poppy case of this size and origin to be submitted to the Western Laboratory, and the first poppy case of any type in several years

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] DEA Journals
Date: June 19, 2004 at 2:33:09 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I am down to September 2003….they found a 40 year old original bottle of psilocybin 10mg tablets! Along with two ‘standard Lemmon 714 logo tablets and some other stuff! lol! Said the laboratory hadn’t seen 714 tablets in years!
Just goes to show they do not make them anywhere any more! I have had people argue with me and try to convince me that Mexico still makes the Lemmon or Rorer 714 Quaaludes.
I love to find out I am right!!! hahahahahahaha!!!!
Callie

Thanks again Patrick for this link!

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] DEA Journals
Date: June 19, 2004 at 2:00:31 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

LOL the next “product” down… “ritalin counterfit pills” are actual 5mg oxycodone hcl tablets, not counterfit ritalin containing oxycodone pills at all. these agents are IDIOTS!.

http://www.dea.gov/programs/forensicsci/microgram/mg0404/mg0404.html

-DH

On Friday, June 18, 2004, at 07:46 PM, CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 6/18/2004 6:59:18 PM Central Daylight Time, digital@phantom.com writes:

http://www.dea.gov/programs/forensicsci/microgram/

The “Buddafingas” wrapper lists the product as “TaiNTed / Buddafinga / diggety, dankity, peanut-buttery!” and a consumer warning “For MEDICINAL Use Only”. Both product wrappers also include marijuana leaf logos – it is therefore difficult to understand why anyone would attempt to present them as an explanation for “unknowingly” ingesting THC

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!  I would LOVE to find some of these candybars!!!!!!!!!!! hahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!
Thanks so much Patrick! That is the best puter reading I  have done in awhile!
Callie

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] DEA Journals
Date: June 19, 2004 at 1:46:00 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 6/18/2004 6:59:18 PM Central Daylight Time, digital@phantom.com writes:
http://www.dea.gov/programs/forensicsci/microgram/

The “Buddafingas” wrapper lists the product as “TaiNTed / Buddafinga / diggety, dankity, peanut-buttery!” and a consumer warning “For MEDICINAL Use Only”. Both product wrappers also include marijuana leaf logos – it is therefore difficult to understand why anyone would attempt to present them as an explanation for “unknowingly” ingesting THC

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!  I would LOVE to find some of these candybars!!!!!!!!!!! hahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!
Thanks so much Patrick! That is the best puter reading I  have done in awhile!
Callie

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] re: Ethnogarden
Date: June 19, 2004 at 1:38:20 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Nick, I know I am totally dense BUT where is your site? Would you post a link please? I may have visited but didn’t know who to credit it to!
Peace,
Callie

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Hello!
Date: June 18, 2004 at 10:46:10 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Dh,

Actually, I have stopped carrying cash, which led to the damn credit cards.  I hope I have the strength to give them over when they arrive.  Going for ice cream with a friend now (really open minded NAer) who had a really tough day.  Anyway, thanks for your kind words and thoughts.  Will keep list posted.

Sean

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Hello!
Date: June 18, 2004 at 10:41:58 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I will probably end up with access to $400.

Hey Sean,

Sorry to hear of your Grandmothers passing. That would certainly stir up a desire in me of wanting to escape feeling those feelings. Grief has a time table all of it’s own, and can be unpredictable. Its probably a good idea to avoid stressful situations, especially now.

If you have someone you can trust with the cards and or cash, and won’t let you hoodwink them into giving it up for dope, let them hold your finances till you are on more stable ground. The dopefiend in you will protest, but this has worked for me in the past. Just one more obstacle in your path of using.

peace,
-dh

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Hello!
Date: June 18, 2004 at 8:31:46 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey all,

Six days clean, thanks for all the help.  I got some sad news early this morning, my grandmother died.  We were very close when I was growing up.

Anyway, I will not disrespect my family by nodding through her wake and funeral, so I will stay clean this weekend am worried about that.  I applied for a couple of credit cards during the worst part of detour as a way to finance my next run.  Because I had paid them all off, and I had made deals with a hospital who I owe a fucking fortune to, that did not appear on my credit report.  I will probably end up with access to $400.

It would make this whole damn week of detour seem like a waste to go out and use nest week, but damn it that scheming addict in my head is so fucking loud.  Pure insanity, like..go get high before you know for sure if you have hepC.  Anyway, I am clean tonight, going to put a movie on soon.  Good weekend to all, and thanks again.

Sean

From: Patrick K. Kroupa <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] DEA Journals
Date: June 18, 2004 at 7:52:56 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

These are absolutely fucking hysterical:

http://www.dea.gov/programs/forensicsci/microgram/

Check the Microgram Bulletins.

Whut I wanna know is … where the hell do they sell all the heroin furniture landing in Miami and how come I can never find that sTore?!?!!?!?!

Patrick

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] re: Ethnogarden
Date: June 18, 2004 at 4:57:21 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m thinking of starting product endorsing soon! Based around personal
experience with the sample. I can feel good quality rootbark in my system
above about 400mg, maybe about 150mg in light sleep. The idea is…providers
can supply me with a sample and I’ll put on my site whether I recommend the
product, with an announcement to get back to me if you buy from them and
don’t think so much of the product.

Nick

—– Original Message —–
From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, June 18, 2004 7:06 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] re: Ethnogarden

Enquired about Ethnogarden and their products last week and got this
reply
back from Jason.

Nick, thanks so much for getting that info.

Now the 5 million dollar question…. should we believe them?  =)

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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] heresy of the 12 steps
Date: June 18, 2004 at 2:26:00 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-heresy.html

and… Bill Wilson’s ‘spiritual experience’… a Belladona Trip!

http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-funny_spirituality.html#spiritualexperience

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] re: Ethnogarden
Date: June 18, 2004 at 2:22:03 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 6/18/04 1:06:29 PM, jfreed1@umbc.edu writes:

Enquired about Ethnogarden and their products last week and got their reply
back from Jason.

Nick, thanks so much for getting that info.

Now the 5 million dollar question…. should we believe them?  =)

Jon,

Why don’t your write them and ask what the percentage of alkaloids is in
their rootbark?

Then we can begin some reality testing.

Howard

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From: Nik <goosebumpz2002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] So im back
Date: June 18, 2004 at 2:10:42 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thank you for replying and thank youm for the compliment i htink so too that i am in a perfect place for the treatment from all i have read and heard abotu it what was the name of the ibo place in british columbia? i forgot but anyways thasnk you
peace love and joy alll that you can endure!                   Nik

CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
What an accomplishment! You should be very proud!
If I were you I would be running as fast as I could to the closest Iboga Treatment! Sounds like physically and mentally that you are in the perfect place for Ibogaine treatment!
Michigan is close to Canada. I sure wish I knew some names to turn you on to, Canadian Iboga Treatment Centers. I bet somebody will answer your call for help!
If you are going to California, I would think Mexico would be the closest but you said Northern California so Canada still seems like the best place.
If no one calls out to help….just keep hollering! The squeaky wheel gets oiled.
I feel like things will be great!
Callie

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail is new and improved – Check it out!

From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] re: Ethnogarden
Date: June 18, 2004 at 2:06:03 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Enquired about Ethnogarden and their products last week and got this reply
back from Jason.

Nick, thanks so much for getting that info.

Now the 5 million dollar question…. should we believe them?  =)

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From: “jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] from Callie Check out The 2004 Transit of Venus
Date: June 18, 2004 at 12:25:31 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

_The  2004 Transit of Venus_
(http://science.nasa.gov/spaceweather/venustransit/gallery_08jun04.htm)  This has NOTHING to do with Ibogaine but  these pics
are all so beautiful and it was a historic event. Hope you don’t mind  me
posting way off subject!
I hope you all enjoy looking at them as much as I did. It  reminds me that we
are very small in comparison to this  universe!
Callie

beatiful pics, callie =)

Whenever life gets you down, Mrs. Brown
And things seem sad or tough
And people are useless, or obnoxious, or daft,
And you feel that you’ve had quite enough…

Just remember that you’re standing on a planet that’s evolving
And revolving at nine hundred miles an hour,
That’s orbiting at nineteen miles a second, so it’s reckoned,
A sun that is the source of all our power.
The sun and you and me and all the stars that we can see
Are moving at a million miles a day
In an outer spiral arm, at forty thousand miles an hour,
Of the galaxy we call the ‘Milky Way’.

Our galaxy itself contains a hundred billion stars.
It’s a hundred thousand light years side to side.
It bulges in the middle, sixteen thousand light years thick,
But out by us, it’s just three thousand light years wide.
We’re thirty thousand light years from galactic central point.
We go ’round every two hundred million years,
And our galaxy is only one of millions of billions
In this amazing and expanding universe.

The universe itself keeps on expanding and expanding
In all of the directions it can whizz
As fast as it can go, at the speed of light, you know,
Twelve million miles a minute, and that’s the fastest speed there is.
So remember, when you’re feeling very small and insecure,
How amazingly unlikely is your birth,
And pray that there’s intelligent life somewhere up in space,
‘Cause there’s bugger all down here on Earth.

or, there’s the Animaniacs take on the same idea…

Everybody lives on a street in a city
Or a village or a town for what it’s worth.
And they’re all inside a country which is part of a continent
That sits upon a planet known as Earth.
And the Earth is a ball full of oceans and some mountains
Which is out there spinning silently in space.
And living on that Earth are the plants and the animals
And also the entire human race.

It’s a great big universe
And we’re all really puny
We’re just tiny little specks
About the size of Mickey Rooney.
It’s big and black and inky
And we are small and dinky
It’s a big universe and we’re not.

And we’re part of a vast interplanetary system
Stretching seven hundred billion miles long.
With nine planets and a sun; we think the Earth’s the only one
That has life on it, although we could be wrong.
Across the interstellar voids are a billion asteroids
Including meteors and Halley’s Comet too.
And there’s over fifty moons floating out there like balloons
In a panoramic trillion-mile view.

And still it’s all a speck amid a hundred billion stars
In a galaxy we call the Milky Way.
It’s sixty thousand trillion miles from one end to the other
And still that’s just a fraction of the way.
‘Cause there’s a hundred billion galaxies that stretch across the sky
Filled with constellations, planets, moons and stars.
And still the universe extends to a place that never ends
Which is maybe just inside a little jar!

=)

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] from Callie Check out The 2004 Transit of Venus
Date: June 18, 2004 at 8:23:22 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The 2004 Transit of Venus This has NOTHING to do with Ibogaine but these pics are all so beautiful and it was a historic event. Hope you don’t mind me posting way off subject!
I hope you all enjoy looking at them as much as I did. It reminds me that we are very small in comparison to this universe!
Callie

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Hello!
Date: June 18, 2004 at 6:32:15 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sean,                                                                                                                                  There is a new drug out for Hep C called Pegasus. I think that is how you spell it?? It worked miracles on me.I’m not HIV positive so I didn’t have to deal with that, but I went through the whole drug protocol for Hep C and so far they tell me I’m cured. I had the worst geneotype too. Your going to get some imformation about it so I won’t give you all the details here but suffice to say there are a whole lot of people who have it and are afraid to deal with it or don’t even know they have it. I know you go to meetings so I won’t hit you with shit about a gratitude list but this may be a blessing in disguise. You say you have insurance? I did too and I used it to take the time off from work to get cured and my life completely changed. I was working in heavy epuipment and defenitly couldn’t physicaly do my job so they gave me temp disability for 12 months and I signed up for state assistance. It wasn’t enough money but somehow with the help from my family and God above I got thru it. This is when I found out about Ibogaine. Until that time I figured I would be on Methadone the rest of my life because I just could not kick it no matter what I tried and I tried everything that I had heard of. I am waiting for results from my last and final blood test but it looks good. I haven’t had my Ibo treatment yet but I will somehow. I figured I had better take on one thing at a time. Check out all insurance possibilities and make your move. I hope you have as much support and help as I did and stay as upbeat as you can. You can steer your destiny but be careful when you do. You can E mail me if you want and I will be more specific with details about what I know about Hep C if you want. O yea my formula for detox at home…….. 100mgs. diphenhydramine, 2 or 3 valerian Kava lots of THC if you wont loose your job and a good book at night. Keep in touch.                                           Randy

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: [ibogaine] re: Ethnogarden
Date: June 18, 2004 at 4:29:41 AM EDT
To: “Ibogaine Mindvox” <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Enquired about Ethnogarden and their products last week and got this reply
back from Jason.

all the best

Nick

—– Original Message —–
From: “Ethnogarden Botanicals” <admin@ethnogarden.com>
To: “Amira” <amira7@onetel.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2004 1:39 PM
Subject: Re: ibogaine.co.uk

Greetings,

This is not accurate any longer. There was a poor quality batch that we had
quiet some time ago.

We now have high quality root bark and Ibogaine available with an extract
currently being produced. We should have it to market by the end of August.

All quality concerns have been sorted out now with the rootbark.

Thanks for your concerns!

Jason Callan
President, Ethnogarden Botanicals Corp.
www.ethnogarden.com
admin@ethnogarden.com
Tel-01-705-735-0540
Fax-01-705-735-4332

—– Original Message —–
From: Amira
To: info@ethnogarden.com
Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2004 7:19 AM
Subject: ibogaine.co.uk

Hi there,

With the recent increase in interest in ibogaine, following last week’s tv
programme in the UK, I’m just checking through the people listed on my
site
at www.ibogaine.co.uk/options.htm and making sure everything’s ok. I seem
to
recall there being a guy on the mindvox ibogaine list recently who
purchased
some rootbark from you that didn’t seem to do anything. I seem to recall
he
took about 20g. Can you give me any info on this? Or background of when
you
get your supply from. Just want to get things straightened out.

all the best

Nick Sandberg    www.ibogaine.co.uk

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From: “Steven Anker” <stevenanker@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Hello!
Date: June 17, 2004 at 7:10:51 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Sean,

Congratulations! Man, the crack/smack is a tough combo. You and only you can do it. God probablly doesn’t care. She’s busy expanding the universe…

Some other 2 cents:

Make plans with some ‘clean’ friends, dinner or something. Having that ahead of you is an incentive to not go bidding to the dark master.

You can go at it without ibogaine, don’t let that you can’t afford it now be a reason to slip back. Save up and visit Gabon in awhile.

Movies are fun.

Urges and cravings go away, do some of those fun activities people have suggested.

When you go into danger zones, visiting the city for a dr. appointment or something bring a friend along, don’t face trouble alone.

Maybe get a kitten or a puppy.

Check out Keeping Clean on mindvox, print it out and keep it with you. I’m sure you will have some things to add.

We are rooting for you, you seem to be a very kind soul.

Take care,
Steve

_________________________________________________________________
MSN 9 Dial-up Internet Access fights spam and pop-ups – now 3 months FREE! http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/

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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Hello!
Date: June 17, 2004 at 3:33:52 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi dh and list,

Thanks for all the support.  I can honestly say that I have never seen an elist like this.
While others have been helpful and supportive, the lack of sarcasm and pushiness (YOU MUST DO IT THIS WAY!!!!) have been amazing.

I am so broke and in debt right now that I don’t see ibogaine in my near future unfortunately.  I don’t even get my paychecks, as all bills and collections, etc., are paid out first and I am left with enough for food and rent.  But one never knows I guess.

I got bad news at the doctor today.  I have hepC in addition to my HIV.  I am getting the second confirming test done today, but the dr said it looks like hepC definitely.
I know this all the more reason not to use, but my fucked up head (the obsession is a bitch right now) feels like I should just party till I die.

Meanwhile, at 5 days, I am starting to feel a little better.  Good, unless it just gives me more energy to use.   Intellectually I know form my results that I still have many years left (at least from a medical point of view) if I don’t use, take my medication, get treatment if I must for the hepatitis, etc., I just wish that emotionally, I didn’t feel like running off and getting high and burying my head in the sand.  Well, I am not getting high today most likely so I am OK right now.  I have insurance, so I guess it might not hurt to get on the phone with them and seeing about therapy.

Anyway, thanks a lot.  You have been great.

Sean

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] HELLO DAVE!
Date: June 17, 2004 at 11:57:18 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I once screwed my way thru an alcohol and oxy detox. Only thing that helped.

From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] HELLO DAVE!
Date: June 17, 2004 at 11:28:29 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Drew had  a good
line to add for Keeping Clean “Masturbate, as long as it doesn’t  become a
new drug.”

Orgasms are great as your body releases LOTS of endorphins  right after
the
climax!

ehehe… i can attest to that… when i was having my flare up thing last
weekend, flogging the ole dolphin definately helped a bit =)

and, while it’s not really my thing, exercise can help quite a lot too for
the same reason.

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Hello!
Date: June 17, 2004 at 11:09:51 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

LOVE the sleeping suggestion! A nice comfortable couch or bed is great for aches and pains of withdrawals. Hot showers help too!
Callie

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] HELLO DAVE!
Date: June 17, 2004 at 9:17:17 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sandy (Booker W) asked >Ever visited Farm Sanctuary in NY?<

No, but I have marched a couple of time in small marches in Manhattan to
raise money and awareness of NY’s Farm Sanctuary. My girlfriend is focused
on animal rights issue, and drags me (willingly) along with her when she
goes to one event or another.

there’s nothing like being around animals and “land” to heal whatever I’m
working on.  Best therapy I EVER found..<

While I don’t have the land really to land on, I do have 10 cats in my small
LES apartment, (11 if one counts my redheaded, sometimes catty V) so I can
definitely empathize with this notion, that sharing space and time with
animals does give me great therapy, although they haven’t always stopped me
from fucking up.

Yet here I feel like no one could give a fuck about who I am or what I say,
except on the rare occasion that I say something interesting. In fact I feel
like one of the “scorned” in many ways… I have to admit it’s an unusual
experience to feel this reaction to my “interactions” but I don’t take it
personally since no one here really knows me and it truely amazes me how
“hot” some people get over the smallest of writings.<

I can say that I myself do not scorn anyone on this list, not anyone that
comes readily to mind at least. There have been occasions where someone
scibbles something that I do find I do not agree with, but that’s normal in
my life. I can say I relate better to most of the people here on this list,
even those I don’t always agree with, simply because most if not all are
coming from a place where I too have been, that place where drugs can take
us in this day and age, a place of trouble and turmoil, as well as bliss,
pleasure and enlightenment.
Anyway, have a great day all.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: booker w
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 10:19 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] HELLO DAVE!

Hey Preston – I know you’re an animal-lover.  Ever visited Farm Sanctuary in
NY?  I volunteer at a farm animal sanctuary in Oregon and there’s nothing
like being around animals and “land” to heal whatever I’m working on.  Best
therapy I EVER found..
Carla, you said ALOT and I enjoyed your honesty alot too!  This board is
definitely (to me) just another mirror of how folks generally seem to get
along.  The only real tie here is that we’re all interested in ibogaine.
Otherwise, we seem to reflect most human groups.  I have to laugh, because I
generally am one of the most “popular” people, socially (in my circles.)  I
seem to have the ability to make folks like me very easily.  Yet here I feel
like no one could give a fuck about who I am or what I say, except on the
rare occasion that I say something interesting. In fact I feel like one of
the “scorned” in many ways… I have to admit it’s an unusual experience to
feel this reaction to my “interactions” but I don’t take it personally since
no one here really knows me and it truely amazes me how “hot” some people
get over the smallest of writings.  I think these sorts of groups are sort
of like driving.  We don’t re! ally know each other and a whole lot of
projection seems to take place.
Anyway, best to all and hoping and praying that anyone who wants to find
ibo, does –      Sandy

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] HELLO DAVE!
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:31:43 -0400

My dream is to run a
pack-station in Yosemite.<

Hey, Steve,
If by pack station you mean working with animals, pack mules, and ever
need someone to help out around the station, please, feel free to give me a
hollar. I’ve been having this dream lately of just getting away from it all
and moving somewhere where I’m not surrounding by human insanity 24 hours a
day.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Steven Anker” <stevenanker@hotmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 7:26 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] HELLO DAVE!

Hey Dave,

I’m from Northern CA as well. My family built the road into Yosemite.
The
Tiago pass and that tree you can through come from my kin. Do you know
the
Old Priest Grade? That was my family name – Priest; our ranch is the
driveway at the top. In addition to road building we ran the best
brothel
in
the area. If you are ever in the Big Oak Flat or Groveland area, give a
call. Right now I’m deciding whether to move back up to the ranch as I
am
getting very sick of LA and the film business. My dream is to run a
pack-station in Yosemite. Film making and horses are my two skills. I
have
been working on a film about iboga with Daniel Pinchbeck if you are
interested.

Anyway, I found this one posting I kept of yours and really feel that
you
have great insight. I put together this pamphlet for a friend going
through
ibogaine and I thought you could add to it. The thinking is that it is
an
evolving organic document. Please look over and see if there is anything
you
feel you could add which could help people after the fact. What I’m
trying
to do is come up with a better post-care procedure for iboga, you can
help.

http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/KeepingClean.html

Best,
Steve

Stop worrying about overloading your inbox – get MSN Hotmail Extra Storage!
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From: “Greg Douglass” <gregdouglass@covad.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Hello!
Date: June 17, 2004 at 12:40:06 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sean:
Man! Your post brought back some serious memories! The first three days of
the kick are the absolute worst, so at least you’re almost over the physical
hump; now it’s a matter of getting your mind and spirit back up to snuff…I
wish you all the best, my friend
I had been addicted for close to three decades when I finally tried
ibogaine. I had tried NA, AA, RR, white-knuckling, geographic cures, rapid
detox, 30-day programs; you name it, been there, done that…I always went
back to using.
The ibogaine did something that the 12-step programs couldn’t do for me;
it filled a huge spiritual void that had existed in me since a very early
age.  I continue to draw on my experience 14 months after treatment. Iboga
kicked my butt and saved it at the same time, all in one 12-hour treatment.
Suddenly, doing drugs just didn’t seem to be a real fucking smart thing to
do, and, for this old-time hard-core junkie, that’s a big turnaround. I’m 54
years old, I feel 30, and I’m kicking ass. (It’s so-o-o-o much easier to
kick ass when 500 pounds of Mighty Joe Young isn’t perched on your
shoulders….)
Keep reading what you’re reading, and keep as busy as you can, even when
you don’t feel like it. And if things don’t work out, there’s always hope.
Best to you,
Greg Douglass
—- Original Message —–
From: “D H” <dave@phantom.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 8:38 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Hello!

Sean,

hang in there buddy. we’ve all been there and we’re rooting for you now.

I hope Ibogaine crosses your path, preferably in the near future. It
changed my life for the best, and I too have been down the various
recovery roads that society today has to offer. Ibogaine tops all.
Remember, it’s a new begining, and not a “cure”.

I know all too well the sickness and depression while kicking, and the
mind-fux and late night insanities that are likely to ensue while
begging for sleep.

Thanks for your post, its always good to be reminded of where most of us
once were.

Be kind to yourself and keep us in the loop.

Peace,
_.dh

Hello all,

Just wanted to say “hello” also.  I am three days off dope and crack.
After
my last detox I had managed to reduce my use to three to four days a
week..like every other day..but this week I am determined not to use at
all.

I find this discussion really interesting..and have enjoyed the posts
today.
I have also tried REBT, 12 step, RR, etc…and just gone back to using.
The
past three days have been hell, and after reading on the website about
ibogaine, I really wish it were available now.  I have been dragging
myself
to work each day, and have spent each nite surfing the web, which is how
I
found the website and this list.  I am too depressed and sick to go out
and
steal, and my job has been letting me off early due to my flu ( I used
all
my sick days using, so now must at least show up in the morning.  I am
afraid to go out because I am afraid I will get on a bus to NYC (I am in
NJ)
and find a way to get off. (NYC is where my connections are.)  I really
find
that NA meetings just depress me more (love the line in the Ibogaine book
about sending addicts off to 12 step religion).  Tonight I will read
another
chapter of the online book, and then fall asleep with Allen Watt’s book
The
Book.

I feel like shit list, but just connecting with you all has helped keep
my
mind off dope a little bit at a time.

Thanks,
Sean C.
NJ

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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<)[%]

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/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]

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/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “D H” <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Hello!
Date: June 16, 2004 at 11:38:03 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sean,

hang in there buddy. we’ve all been there and we’re rooting for you now.

I hope Ibogaine crosses your path, preferably in the near future. It
changed my life for the best, and I too have been down the various
recovery roads that society today has to offer. Ibogaine tops all.
Remember, it’s a new begining, and not a “cure”.

I know all too well the sickness and depression while kicking, and the
mind-fux and late night insanities that are likely to ensue while
begging for sleep.

Thanks for your post, its always good to be reminded of where most of us
once were.

Be kind to yourself and keep us in the loop.

Peace,
_.dh

Hello all,

Just wanted to say “hello” also.  I am three days off dope and crack.  After
my last detox I had managed to reduce my use to three to four days a
week..like every other day..but this week I am determined not to use at all.

I find this discussion really interesting..and have enjoyed the posts today.
I have also tried REBT, 12 step, RR, etc…and just gone back to using.  The
past three days have been hell, and after reading on the website about
ibogaine, I really wish it were available now.  I have been dragging myself
to work each day, and have spent each nite surfing the web, which is how I
found the website and this list.  I am too depressed and sick to go out and
steal, and my job has been letting me off early due to my flu ( I used all
my sick days using, so now must at least show up in the morning.  I am
afraid to go out because I am afraid I will get on a bus to NYC (I am in NJ)
and find a way to get off. (NYC is where my connections are.)  I really find
that NA meetings just depress me more (love the line in the Ibogaine book
about sending addicts off to 12 step religion).  Tonight I will read another
chapter of the online book, and then fall asleep with Allen Watt’s book The
Book.

I feel like shit list, but just connecting with you all has helped keep my
mind off dope a little bit at a time.

Thanks,
Sean C.
NJ

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
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From: “jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Hello!
Date: June 16, 2004 at 10:32:38 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

Hi Callie,

I forgot that outside of NYC, dope can mean any drug.  I meant heroin.  I am
not excluding NA, but after years of NA I don’t put much stock in it.
Actually two very close friends of mine with years clean in NA (one of whom left NA
but stayed clean)
feel that I am on the right track in staying home and reading (my
concentration is improving) is better for me tonight than an NA meeting.

Thanks for the suggestion about prayer, but I am a non theist, so prayer does
not make much sense for me.  One reason I dislike NA/AA is that there is so
much God talk.  If I wanted to go to church, I would. I do not.  I understand,
though that 12 step groups help many who have a Judea Christian take on
religion (or spirituality if you prefer).

I completely hear you on that.. I’m not a non theist, but i’m very
agnostic, and the whole higher power thing always rubbed me the wrong way.
not even the god thing, but i guess i’m partial to the existentialist idea
that we’re all that there is, so we better make it count. looking up to
some non-tangible source of goodness was something especially hard to get
a lot of comfort out of when i was strung out… (and still is, really..)

I am gay, HIV poz, in exile in the burbs right now.  When I am feeling better
I plan to make my way to agnostic NA meetings at the NYC GLBT center.  And I
may go to a local NA meeting with a close friend on Friday, and then spend the
weekend with her.

The advice I have gotten from my clean friends is to basically keep my mind
off of using as much as I can.  I really liked the suggestions on this list,
especially avoiding the FNC 🙂

Anyway, thanks for caring.

definately, man. don’t let there be one second during the day when you’re
not involved in something other than junk. the agnostic NA meeting sounds
like a good idea. you might also want to look for some non-NA support
groups like rational recovery or soemthing. or just hang out at the GLBT
place, or wherever, just be around supportive unstrungout people. spending
the weekend with a friend is an excellent idea.

take care of yourself

jon

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From: “booker w” <swbooker@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] HELLO DAVE!
Date: June 16, 2004 at 10:19:57 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Preston – I know you’re an animal-lover.  Ever visited Farm Sanctuary in NY?  I volunteer at a farm animal sanctuary in Oregon and there’s nothing like being around animals and “land” to heal whatever I’m working on.  Best therapy I EVER found..
Carla, you said ALOT and I enjoyed your honesty alot too!  This board is definitely (to me) just another mirror of how folks generally seem to get along.  The only real tie here is that we’re all interested in ibogaine.  Otherwise, we seem to reflect most human groups.  I have to laugh, because I generally am one of the most “popular” people, socially (in my circles.)  I seem to have the ability to make folks like me very easily.  Yet here I feel like no one could give a fuck about who I am or what I say, except on the rare occasion that I say something interesting. In fact I feel like one of the “scorned” in many ways… I have to admit it’s an unusual experience to feel this reaction to my “interactions” but I don’t take it personally since no one here really knows me and it truely amazes me how “hot” some people get over the smallest of writings.  I think these sorts of groups are sort of like driving.  We don’t really know each other and a whole lot of projection seems to take place.
Anyway, best to all and hoping and praying that anyone who wants to find ibo, does –      Sandy

>From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>

>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>

>Subject: Re: [ibogaine] HELLO DAVE!

>Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:31:43 -0400

>

> >My dream is to run a

>pack-station in Yosemite.<

>

>Hey, Steve,

>     If by pack station you mean working with animals, pack mules, and ever

>need someone to help out around the station, please, feel free to give me a

>hollar. I’ve been having this dream lately of just getting away from it all

>and moving somewhere where I’m not surrounding by human insanity 24 hours a

>day.

>Peace,

>Preston

>

>

>—– Original Message —–

>From: “Steven Anker” <stevenanker@hotmail.com>

>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>

>Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 7:26 PM

>Subject: [ibogaine] HELLO DAVE!

>

>

> >

> > Hey Dave,

> >

> > I’m from Northern CA as well. My family built the road into Yosemite. The

> > Tiago pass and that tree you can through come from my kin. Do you know the

> > Old Priest Grade? That was my family name – Priest; our ranch is the

> > driveway at the top. In addition to road building we ran the best brothel

>in

> > the area. If you are ever in the Big Oak Flat or Groveland area, give a

> > call. Right now I’m deciding whether to move back up to the ranch as I am

> > getting very sick of LA and the film business. My dream is to run a

> > pack-station in Yosemite. Film making and horses are my two skills. I have

> > been working on a film about iboga with Daniel Pinchbeck if you are

> > interested.

> >

> > Anyway, I found this one posting I kept of yours and really feel that you

> > have great insight. I put together this pamphlet for a friend going

>through

> > ibogaine and I thought you could add to it. The thinking is that it is an

> > evolving organic document. Please look over and see if there is anything

>you

> > feel you could add which could help people after the fact. What I’m trying

> > to do is come up with a better post-care procedure for iboga, you can

>help.

> >

> >

> > http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/KeepingClean.html

> >

> > Best,

> > Steve

Stop worrying about overloading your inbox – get MSN Hotmail Extra Storage! /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%](> Further Information & List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] post-withdrawal withdrawal..
Date: June 16, 2004 at 10:14:10 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

I’m totally admiting I am unsure what the facts are, but I have read that
most do contain some amount of opiates. I thought they all did to some
degree, but as noted I do not know for sure one way or the other.
Peace,
Preston

No, honestly.. =)

Only few species of poppies have opiates… papaver somniferum being the
main one, and papaver rhodea to a lesser extent. A number of the other
poppies have alkaloids that can be made into opiates.. there’s one
called thebaine that’s used to make codeine. And a lot of the
other poppy alkaloids are useful by themselves. Like the stuff in
california poppies Hattie was talking about.

But it is good to be vigilant about not accidentally taking something
that might set you off.

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From: “Tommy” <tgoodson7@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Hello!
Date: June 16, 2004 at 10:03:06 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hang in there Sean C.  Sounds like my Grandson talking.  I was successful in
getting him the Ibogaine Therapy treatment.  It was partially successful in
that right after he finished
a 6 day treatment protocol he was picked up for parole violation and it will
be a while till
he is released and resumes the life his habit interrupted.

Anyway, I am 80 years old and have been studying all sides of the drug
problem and I am completely sold on Ibegaine.  I fully intend to hook up and
take the therapeutic version for
self improvement and greater participation in the Ibogaine activity in
general.

I have never become involved in anything similar that even remotely triggers
my enthusiasm for personal involvement as this does.

Keep plugging and never give up.  You can’t loose.

Tommy Goodson

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 8:36 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Hello!

You go Sean, you go. Keep doin’ what yer doin’ and you’ll get through. One
minute at a time. Play some videogames, guitar, smoke a cig, eat some
food,
anything but stay busy doin’ it whatever it is, even sleep- which I myself
almost always find a fantastic distraction (if I can get to sleep that is)
from any craving I am suffering through.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: UUSEAN@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 7:03 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Hello!

Hello all,

Just wanted to say “hello” also.  I am three days off dope and crack.
After
my last detox I had managed to reduce my use to three to four days a
week..like every other day..but this week I am determined not to use at
all.

I find this discussion really interesting..and have enjoyed the posts
today.
I have also tried REBT, 12 step, RR, etc…and just gone back to using.
The
past three days have been hell, and after reading on the website about
ibogaine, I really wish it were available now.  I have been dragging
myself
to work each day, and have spent each nite surfing the web, which is how I
found the website and this list.  I am too depressed and sick to go out
and
steal, and my job has been letting me off early due to my flu ( I used all
my sick days using, so now must at least show up in the morning.  I am
afraid to go out because I am afraid I will get on a bus to NYC (I am in
NJ)
and find a way to get off. (NYC is where my connections are.)  I really
find
that NA meetings just depress me more (love the line in the Ibogaine book
about sending addicts off to 12 step religion).  Tonight I will read
another
chapter of the online book, and then fall asleep with Allen Watt’s book
The
Book.

I feel like shit list, but just connecting with you all has helped keep my
mind off dope a little bit at a time.

Thanks,
Sean C.
NJ

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Hello!
Date: June 16, 2004 at 9:41:52 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston,

Thanks man.  I am going to drag myself away form the ibogaine story soon, and relax a bit.  Tomorrow I see my HIV DR and get my Tcell/viral load readings am always uptight before that vist..and detoxing on top of it..anyway thanks for the support.

Sean

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] post-withdrawal withdrawal..
Date: June 16, 2004 at 9:37:30 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Only a couple species
of poppies produce opiates.<

I’m totally admiting I am unsure what the facts are, but I have read that
most do contain some amount of opiates. I thought they all did to some
degree, but as noted I do not know for sure one way or the other.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 7:05 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] post-withdrawal withdrawal..

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

california poppy chemicals are much more mild in
their effects and are not addictive.<

As much as I myself love druggies, drugs and opiates in particular, I’m
not
sure you should buy this one. I think Poppies of any kind if they
contain
opiates are physically addictive.

Well, “poppy” is the family (as in family, genus, species) that the plants
belong to. Plants in the same family (and animals in the same family, for
that matter) can be very different. Like for instance, deadly nightshade
and potatoes are in the same family. =)

Some poppies aren’t pharmacologically active at all. Only a couple species
of poppies produce opiates.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Hello!
Date: June 16, 2004 at 9:36:00 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You go Sean, you go. Keep doin’ what yer doin’ and you’ll get through. One
minute at a time. Play some videogames, guitar, smoke a cig, eat some food,
anything but stay busy doin’ it whatever it is, even sleep- which I myself
almost always find a fantastic distraction (if I can get to sleep that is)
from any craving I am suffering through.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: UUSEAN@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 7:03 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Hello!

Hello all,

Just wanted to say “hello” also.  I am three days off dope and crack.  After
my last detox I had managed to reduce my use to three to four days a
week..like every other day..but this week I am determined not to use at all.

I find this discussion really interesting..and have enjoyed the posts today.
I have also tried REBT, 12 step, RR, etc…and just gone back to using.  The
past three days have been hell, and after reading on the website about
ibogaine, I really wish it were available now.  I have been dragging myself
to work each day, and have spent each nite surfing the web, which is how I
found the website and this list.  I am too depressed and sick to go out and
steal, and my job has been letting me off early due to my flu ( I used all
my sick days using, so now must at least show up in the morning.  I am
afraid to go out because I am afraid I will get on a bus to NYC (I am in NJ)
and find a way to get off. (NYC is where my connections are.)  I really find
that NA meetings just depress me more (love the line in the Ibogaine book
about sending addicts off to 12 step religion).  Tonight I will read another
chapter of the online book, and then fall asleep with Allen Watt’s book The
Book.

I feel like shit list, but just connecting with you all has helped keep my
mind off dope a little bit at a time.

Thanks,
Sean C.
NJ

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Hello!
Date: June 16, 2004 at 9:08:05 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Callie,

I forgot that outside of NYC, dope can mean any drug.  I meant heroin.  I am not excluding NA, but after years of NA I don’t put much stock in it.  Actually two very close friends of mine with years clean in NA (one of whom left NA but stayed clean)
feel that I am on the right track in staying home and reading (my concentration is improving) is better for me tonight than an NA meeting.

Thanks for the suggestion about prayer, but I am a non theist, so prayer does not make much sense for me.  One reason I dislike NA/AA is that there is so much God talk.  If I wanted to go to church, I would. I do not.  I understand, though that 12 step groups help many who have a Judea Christian take on religion (or spirituality if you prefer).

I am gay, HIV poz, in exile in the burbs right now.  When I am feeling better I plan to make my way to agnostic NA meetings at the NYC GLBT center.  And I may go to a local NA meeting with a close friend on Friday, and then spend the weekend with her.

The advice I have gotten from my clean friends is to basically keep my mind off of using as much as I can.  I really liked the suggestions on this list, especially avoiding the FNC 🙂

Anyway, thanks for caring.

Sean

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] HELLO DAVE!
Date: June 16, 2004 at 8:57:52 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 6/16/2004 6:37:13 PM Central Daylight Time, stevenanker@hotmail.com writes:
Drew had a good
line to add for Keeping Clean “Masturbate, as long as it doesn’t become a
new drug.”

Orgasms are great as your body releases LOTS of endorphins right after the climax!

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Hello!
Date: June 16, 2004 at 8:54:53 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Shawn, I am happy you are 3 days clean! White knuckling it is damn hard to do but it can be done. You said crack and dope. By dope you mean narcotics?
I know what you mean about NA depressing you but it is probably helpful for you to go. You at least stay in touch with how sick you indeed are and are reminded that only you can get yourself better.
I believe in prayer. If you do too, I encourage you to try it. I pray out loud. It is kind of like ventilating for me.
Hope you got some ‘warm bodies’ you can phone when you feel like using. That helps sometime too.
Hang in there Shawn! Keep the list posted.
Callie

From: “D H” <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Fwd: [ibogaine] “Sing the body electric”
Date: June 16, 2004 at 8:00:31 PM EDT
To: digital@phantom.com

iS this cat out of his fucking gourd, or whaT???

-Me ME mE

— Original Message —
Date: 6/16/2004
From: “iboga@ziplip.com” <iboga@ziplip.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] “Sing the body electric”

“Though I try to find the answer to all the questions they ask.  Yet I
know it’s impossible to go living through my past.     Can’t keep us
down.”

Lotus Birds eat bugs,
2 crane necks to make an 8

Control battery/microwave burnsoftware Can’t hold understanding back.

“I don’t have a fish but I can learn to fish.”

“The Voice of the people are a voice inside of them, and if you listen
good you will know the right way.  Because there is a voice inside
talking to everyone.  Seen?  Seen.”

From: iboga@ziplip.com <iboga@ziplip.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] “Sing the body electric”
Date: June 16, 2004 at 7:37:01 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“Though I try to find the answer to all the questions they ask.  Yet I know it’s impossible to go living through my past.     Can’t keep us down.”

Lotus Birds eat bugs,
2 crane necks to make an 8

Control battery/microwave burnsoftware Can’t hold understanding back.

“I don’t have a fish but I can learn to fish.”

“The Voice of the people are a voice inside of them, and if you listen good you will know the right way.  Because there is a voice inside talking to everyone.  Seen?  Seen.”
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From: “Steven Anker” <stevenanker@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] HELLO DAVE!
Date: June 16, 2004 at 7:35:23 PM EDT
To: dave@phantom.com, ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Dave,

Fucking brilliant. So helpul and wise.

We have to come up with something better than AA. The big book is a little too big for me. “Rarely have we seen anyone fail who follows our simple program.” God never struck me as simple. How’s this for catchy: AA, there has to be a better way. Or at least a choice. This is America for fucks sake.

Was very emberassed to find out that I posted that letter to you on the whole site. I thought you as N. Cali boy would be mildly interested in the shit about where I’m from. Oh well, everyone knows I want to be a Cowboy. I’m wrote some additional ideas for “Keeping Clean.” The basic idea I had was to get as many different viewpoints on “keeping clean” from different voices and all addicts wanting to stop could find the tools and suggestions right for them. Not so fascistic or one size fits all. Denise, my yuppie Sister & ibogaine person and Lisa my lesbian sister-in-law who is a devout aa’r and never taken ibo all chipped in as well as those you know. It should help all, not just someone who has taken ibo.

I thought Yosemite could be good for addicts after ibo. The main benifit a rehab offers is it makes it hard to score. It’s tough to score up there and it’s more pleasant.

If you just take ibo and do nothing different, most, but not all, will go back to using. Nothing will really change. If we (collectively) do this without greed, ego and do it with a from a place of wanting to help I know we can get the help out there.  By helping more people and by doing good ourselves a powerful idea will spread. It doesn’t seem Mash will publish anytime soon, so it’s up to all of us.

Do you know Dr. Drew Pinsky from “love-line?” He is a national radio show host, and he wants to help. He was the one who suggested going after PTSD with ibo and is wants help. PTSD may be able to get out of the addiction ghetto and would be considered a major medical breakthrough. Drew had a good line to add for Keeping Clean “Masturbate, as long as it doesn’t become a new drug.”

My sense from personal experience is that iboga may be a major breakthrough in the treatment of trauma. Trauma and addiction are interlocked and there is enough evidence of iboga being able to treat trauma that more research needs to be done. Heal the trauma and we have a major breakthrough. We go in 7 year cycles if you get fucked between 7 – 14 your brain is not formed correctlly.

It was reading this from Daniel Pinchbeck’s “Breaking Open the Head.”which prompted me to try ibogaine:

“Dr. Carl Anderson at Harvard Medical School has done some study into ibogaine and believes that ibogaine restores a balance between the brain’s two hemispheres. He believes that people prone to addiction suffer from an imbalance between the left and right hemispheres.

Anderson suggests, “Interhemispheric struggles, primarily a result of child abuse, may be the fundamental psychological root of drug addiction.” This is probably an overstatement. In any case, disparities between the left and right brain disrupt REM sleep, which, as Anderson notes, is “essential for emotional regulation, learning, and memory consolidation.” Ibogaine, accesses REM cycling in a powerful way.

Drug abuse is, for Anderson, “strongly associated with assymetric hemispheric function.” If ibogaine causes “bihemispheric reintegration,” it might return to psychically damaged people the healing power of their sleep and dreams. The ibogaine trip would be “a healing journey through the fractal hyperspace of emotionally-indexed childhood memories.” Iboga has been described, not inaccurately, as “ten years of psychoanalysis in a single night.”

I met with Dr.’s from the Albert Schweitzer hospital in Gabon and they told me that Schweitzer was aware of iboga and thought it would be the medicine for the 21st century. Sounds good, but probably bullshit. Still cool that Schweitzer knew about it.

I’ve noticed that many addicts have sleep disorders and are not able to dream, I can now sleep and dream.

The Bwiti believe that your spirit leaves you if you are subjected to trauma or abuse yourself. The belief is that the iboga allows the spirit to return. I did feel that I got my spirit/soul or whatever back, something which had been robbed.

More ideas for the Keeping Clean:
Make a list of every reason you love drugs, what you gain, why you use. Make a list of everything you loose and have lost from drug use and your reasons for wanting to stop. Keep both lists close by. When the urge hits read them both, ask yourself is it worth it, is there anything else I can do?

The nihilism regarding yourself and the world can be fought, remember that you’re letting “them” win. All that energy spent being a drug addict can be spent making the world a better place.

If bored make a list of all who have wronged you and wish them ill and fantasize of revenge. Revenge can be every bit as fun as forgiveness and there is no better revenge than living well. The people who hurt you are quite happy with you being an addict.

Engage in social interactions, rebuild lost friendships, throw a pot-luck dinner.

Set some goals for youself. Make a better life.

Keep track of all the money you have saved.

Learn responsibility and self-compassion.

You do drugs because you have made a choice to medicate yourself, get to the root of the problem so you don’t have to self-medicate. No one holds a gun to your head and tells you to use. Consequently only you can stop using.

Don’t be a victim, it’s dull.

Regain your creative mojo.

Ideas for progress in helping addicts on a societal scale:
Change the public perception of addicts and addiction. Depression was once viewed the same way as addiction is, namely as a moral failing, not an illness. With time this perception changed. Unfortunately AA helps this stereotype persist.

I am basically a private and shy person, but I will not be anonymous about something this important.

It is tough, but addicts need to be open. We come from all walks of life, not just rock stars and the homeless. This is tough to do when you hear shit like “Fuck addicts, let them die.” A friend was in his residency helping an addict in ER, the supervising dr. told him not to waste his time as there is no hope for addicts or future in addiction.

The economics of current drug policy are insane,  Show that people are paying for a war which never can be won. I have yet to talk with a cop who thinks the drug war can be won. It is also morally wrong to incarcerate sick people. I think if there is a chance for change it may come from the right, Nancy Reagan could be a powerful voice. I have hope for John McCain. Think Nixon in China.

Promote scientific research into addiction and treatment modalities. There are around 400 cancer medications in development, and four for addiction.

Create new treatment modalities which have a higher efficacy. Cost effective treatment.

Ibogaine needs to be removed from schedule 1. It has medical value and there is absolutely no chance of addiction. 18-mc has a the most hope for approval here.

Very Important, I’ve mentioned this before and no one has helped: Figure out a way for me to meet with the Bush twins, help them with their budding addictions (with iboga), have a wild three-way, meet the dad – “May I call you dad?” Laura Bush will be so happy that her daughters have been helped she will force her husband into funding research for iboga. I have my pick-up line worked out, “That’s a cute name, Bush.”

I’m going to be a dad around Nov. 10, the nganga told me a son. It feels really good to have a friend I’ve never met out there who is going through a similiar path. One day maybe our families can go through Yosemite on some fine horses.

You have an amazing mind and soul.

Best,
Steve.

_________________________________________________________________
Looking to buy a house? Get informed with the Home Buying Guide from MSN House & Home. http://coldwellbanker.msn.com/

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From: “jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] post-withdrawal withdrawal..
Date: June 16, 2004 at 7:05:19 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

california poppy chemicals are much more mild in
their effects and are not addictive.<

As much as I myself love druggies, drugs and opiates in particular, I’m not
sure you should buy this one. I think Poppies of any kind if they contain
opiates are physically addictive.

Well, “poppy” is the family (as in family, genus, species) that the plants
belong to. Plants in the same family (and animals in the same family, for
that matter) can be very different. Like for instance, deadly nightshade
and potatoes are in the same family. =)

Some poppies aren’t pharmacologically active at all. Only a couple species
of poppies produce opiates.

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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Hello!
Date: June 16, 2004 at 7:03:44 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello all,

Just wanted to say “hello” also.  I am three days off dope and crack.  After my last detox I had managed to reduce my use to three to four days a week..like every other day..but this week I am determined not to use at all.

I find this discussion really interesting..and have enjoyed the posts today.  I have also tried REBT, 12 step, RR, etc…and just gone back to using.  The past three days have been hell, and after reading on the website about ibogaine, I really wish it were available now.  I have been dragging myself to work each day, and have spent each nite surfing the web, which is how I found the website and this list.  I am too depressed and sick to go out and steal, and my job has been letting me off early due to my flu ( I used all my sick days using, so now must at least show up in the morning.  I am afraid to go out because I am afraid I will get on a bus to NYC (I am in NJ) and find a way to get off. (NYC is where my connections are.)  I really find that NA meetings just depress me more (love the line in the Ibogaine book about sending addicts off to 12 step religion).  Tonight I will read another chapter of the online book, and then fall asleep with Allen Watt’s book The Book.

I feel like shit list, but just connecting with you all has helped keep my mind off dope a little bit at a time.

Thanks,
Sean C.
NJ

From: “D H” <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] HELLO DAVE!
Date: June 16, 2004 at 5:40:43 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: digital@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Steve…

lesseee

keeping clean… actually the stuff on MV is all other peoplez… I think
I was busy being a new father when all that was being gathered/posted.

feel free to share this ~maybe Patrick will add it to the current list on
MV/Ibogaine. ahem.

The Yosemite stuff sounds cool. more on that later, off to see my
shaman/guru/teacher type dude.

_.dh

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

keeping clean:

Do it for YOU first.

Breathe.

Stretch.

Nurture yourself.

This could mean… long, quiet walks in a mellow place – the woods, along
a river, in a park, a meadow, mountain trail, a dusty country road,
uncrowded city streets. Walking in the early morning is highly good for
your mind/body/soul.

Eat healthy foods… lots of greens and vegetables, easily digested
proteins, grains, etc – cut back on greasy foods.

Take vitamins… vitamin C, B’s, anti-oxidants – consult a
doctor/nutritionalist/herbalist type person for your particulars. Liver,
Lung & Lymphatic support herbs can be helpful.

Excercise; walk, jog, run, hike, swim, surf, bike, ski, skate, climb, etc
[climate/location/physical ability depending].

Distance yourself from stressful/unhealthy people/places/things; annoying
family members and/or other people, Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, using
friends/acquaintances, dealers, shooting galleries, script doctors,
traffic jams, arguments, etc.

Surround yourself with light and love. Sounds hokey, but the darkness and
hate no longer serve you.

Seek Support; This is highly personal and environmentally variable. This
could be as simple as reading something spiritual and/or healing, the
ibogaine list, counseling, therapy, shamanism, meetings… basically
whetever helps keep your sanity in place. Some experimenting/exploration
is well in order. An open mind helps here. Some things may not work for
you. Some things may work for a while, and you may find the need to move
on. This is highly encouraged, for as we grow our needs change.

Laugh. Tell Jokes. Read/do funny things. Dance the joy of LIFE.

Smile, or practice it if you don’t feel it.

Sleep. Nap. Snooze. Rest. Relax. Melatonin may be helpful. Try and avoid
benzo’s, they drain your life force.

Be kind and patient with YOU.

Look yourself in the eyes in the mirror once and a while. See if you like
who you see. If not, try becoming someone you would like.

Total abstinence can be a goal, but harm reduction is ideally a good
start. Removing the most damaging substances and then maintaining
balance, and then working on the lesser substances may be a good way to
approach getting clean. If you can clean the slate completely to begin
with, great. If not, don’t let other peoples opinions/dogmas/judgements
weigh you down. Listen to your gut feelings.

All of the above in small steps. Ease yourself into this new way of
living, at the same time avoid making excuses to continue destructive
ways of being.

If you “relapse/slip/use/stumble/get loaded/fuckup/freakout/fall” -pick
yourself back up asap, dust yourself off and proceed with the above.
Avoid getting mired down in guilt, shame, remorse or pity. These are
fear-based stumbling blocks and will keep you down. In staying clean,
fear is the enemy.

_.dh

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] post-withdrawal withdrawal..
Date: June 16, 2004 at 5:01:12 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

california poppy chemicals are much more mild in
their effects and are not addictive.<

As much as I myself love druggies, drugs and opiates in particular, I’m not
sure you should buy this one. I think Poppies of any kind if they contain
opiates are physically addictive.
Peace,
Preston

.

—– Original Message —–
From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 2:43 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] post-withdrawal withdrawal..

The poppy is an opiate, so using poppies may be creating a dependence,
but
Cannabis always helps me with minor residual withdrawal.

Oh no, I was talking about using california poppy, not opium poppy. Hattie
gave a very good description of how they’re different a couple days ago,
but basically (if I’m remembering correctly) both opiates and the active
chemicals in california poppy fall under the same broad chemical
classification, but the california poppy chemicals are much more mild in
their effects and are not addictive.

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Hello!
Date: June 16, 2004 at 4:53:43 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sometimes I need to just talk about what’s in my head while I am trying get
this whole thing together. You all seem to be the people I can relate to the
best. O. MY GOD just where does that put me?LOL<

In really fucked-up company?
Or at least company that can relate to you in many ways.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 12:59 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Hello!

Shawn, Howard and all other mindvoxians,
Thanx for the replys and the hope you put across. Sometimes I need to just
talk about what’s in my head while I am trying get this whole thing
together. You all seem to be the people I can relate to the best. O. MY GOD
just where does that put me?LOL The people in the rooms just weren’t sprung
as tight as this I guess..I guess what I really want to hear is that I’m
going to get the full experience from the treatment and not fuck up like I
fucked up everything else I’ve tried. I know that eventually I’ll get the
treatment cause I wont stop till I get it.
Thanx

Randy

P.S.   I’d really like to Know about Ibo and lucid dreamers

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From: “AG” <adamg@013.net.il>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] post-withdrawal withdrawal..
Date: June 16, 2004 at 5:32:29 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Brooke bought 50gms of rootbark from ethnogarden, didn’t mean to imply he spent 15 grand… I don’t recall what he paid for it, but it ought to have been $120 CDN give or take 40 or so…

One can do 10mg or 15mg per kilo bodyweight of HCl and still be in the safe-zone, where 15mg is more suitable for detox purposes and 10mg is plenty sufficient for all other purposes….

The ‘whole-plant extract’ ought to be 5 times the quantity of HCl, as a loose rule of thumb…

Rootbark, if it’s the really good stuff ought to be 5 times the weight of the whole-plant extract or somewhere around 25gms… for starters…

I’ve also eaten 40gms of rootbark and had nada whatsoever except an overwhelming desire to strangle my supplier.

One other thing, anybody doing HCl/extract, especially for non-detox purposes should maybe consider the following…

When you do iboga in africa you eat plenty but you do so over an extended period of time… Now while I totally despaired at the extraordinary quantity that was set in front of me (a mountain confined to a cereal bowl), down the line I kept going back for more (mostly the brew though), sort of like refuelling, (I can almost swear I was gently urged by a certain ‘presence’), and then whooosh, I’d be taking-off
again….until I suddenly just knew beyond a doubt, on that last gulp, that I reached the limit…
Anyways, the point is, sometimes the guide/facilitator  you do it with has his or her own idea of what you should be doing and I for one am sorry that I went along and did HCl as a one shot, all upfront, deal.
I’m not even talking about ‘premature vomitation’ and how that’ll ruin your rebirthday party…

All in all I strongly believe that taking half upfront and start taking minute quantities at the height of it can prolongue the peaking and can grant access to various states and self-realizations…

I also know that the opposite, that of taking a very large quantity within a very short while will make you pass out and you’re gonna come back a week later and then you’re gonna wait around another day to remember who the hell you are and you’re not going to recall much of anything…

So I know it works like that with the iboga (rootbark) but I only have this gut feeling that this approach is equally applicable to extract/HCl.

AG

—– Original Message —–
From: CrookedEye420@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 7:03 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] post-withdrawal withdrawal..

Ethnogarden sell’s alkaloid extract and pure ibogaine HCl.  You only need a gram of pure HCl or maybe a bit more of the whole plant extract.  It is expensive and if you are buying rootbark, then you’ll need to eat an awful lot.
Shawn

In a message dated 6/13/2004 2:00:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time, adamg@013.net.il writes:
My mistake…. Brooke did buy from ethnogarden, and that’s the company/site
I meant was neither cheap nor reliable… I tried getting some dealer
pricing from them, seeing as I had a bunch of people ready for lift-off
and their pricing was outrageous… I don’t know of anyone, including
a friggin’ millionaire from BC who’s gonna order 250gms of HCl to get the
price
to come down from $333 a gram to $300 (yeah, that’s the discount these
guys are thinkin’ up– here’s me hopin’ they’re still holding their
breathe )

And Brooke bought 50gms and that stuff did not do the job, so you gotta
be thinkin’ 100gms, imo, regardless of the source you end up buying from…

BTW, Seeing as someone on this list has NOT come forth and mentioned
how pleasantly palatable my ibo-dogs® are..ahem… I will yet again mention
that using narrow ‘sausage-casings’ to make loose/flacid ibo-dogs is the
best way to get a serious quantity of iboga down the chute…

…errr… but get your watcher to freshen up on his heimlich maneuver,
just to be on the safe side…

bon appetite,
AG

From: “Steven Anker” <stevenanker@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] post-withdrawal withdrawal..
Date: June 16, 2004 at 4:23:56 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Oh no, I was talking about using california poppy, not opium poppy. Hattie
gave a very good description of how they’re different a couple days ago,
but basically (if I’m remembering correctly) both opiates and the active
chemicals in california poppy fall under the same broad chemical
classification, but the california poppy chemicals are much more mild in
their effects and are not addictive.

Some friends have been able to kick using the CA poppy. Best thing is when the growing season is over, so are you. It does become a bit like the morning cup of coffee, but big deal. It can leave you wanting the powerful shit.

_________________________________________________________________
Stop worrying about overloading your inbox – get MSN Hotmail Extra Storage! http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Hello!
Date: June 16, 2004 at 3:10:16 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I was on methadone for 3 years.  2 of them I was clean of all other
opiates.<

Weird. I was on meth for 4, and off all other opiates for 3 of them.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: CrookedEye420@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 12:26 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Hello!

I was on methadone for 3 years.  2 of them I was clean of all other opiates.
Shawn

In a message dated 6/10/2004 7:46:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
CallieMimosa@aol.com writes:
Hello Shawn!
So good to read of your clean time after Iboga! I am tapering down on my
Methadone and saving for trip for treatment. Sorry to say it will be a few
months before I am down to 45 or 50 mgs and have to $$ it will take to
travel.
How low did you  go on your Methadone?
Please continue to post. It is very encouraging to hear from folks who are
successful and it is also a learning experience to hear from those who are
not successful. Those who are not successful seem to be few and far between
tho.
Peace, Callie

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From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] post-withdrawal withdrawal..
Date: June 16, 2004 at 2:43:38 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The poppy is an opiate, so using poppies may be creating a dependence, but
Cannabis always helps me with minor residual withdrawal.

Oh no, I was talking about using california poppy, not opium poppy. Hattie
gave a very good description of how they’re different a couple days ago,
but basically (if I’m remembering correctly) both opiates and the active
chemicals in california poppy fall under the same broad chemical
classification, but the california poppy chemicals are much more mild in
their effects and are not addictive.

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From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] PAWS info
Date: June 16, 2004 at 2:38:05 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jon,

I know this won’t really help you deal with your PAWs but I thought the
general info might help you understand it a little better maybe?  I hope
so anyway!

Thanks very much for forwarding that info, Hannah. It’s comforting to know
that i’m not just going mad or something, you know, that it’s a real
problem that other people deal with too.

I’m feeling almost completely better now. I’m just hoping that at some
point I’ll be able to get some iboga.. cause I know it’s going to happen
again at some point in the future. I suppose, at the worst, I’m hoping to
move to Canada in 2 years or so… =)

jon

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Hello!
Date: June 16, 2004 at 1:05:58 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 6/16/04 12:00:08 PM, BiscuitBoy714@aol.com writes:

Thanx for the replys and the hope you put across. Sometimes I
need to just talk about what’s in my head while I am trying get this whole
thing together. You all seem to be the people I can relate to the best.
O. MY GOD just where does that put me?LOL The people in the rooms just
weren’t sprung as tight as this I guess..I guess what I really want to hear is that
I’m going
to get the full experience from the treatment and not fuck up like I fucked
up everything else I’ve tried. I know that eventually I’ll get the treatment
cause I wont stop till I get it.

Sorry, but there are no guarantees ever.  Take ibogaine, keep your mind open,
enjoy yourself.  If in Africa, follow the advice of your nganga.

Howard

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From: CrookedEye420@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] post-withdrawal withdrawal..
Date: June 16, 2004 at 1:03:16 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ethnogarden sell’s alkaloid extract and pure ibogaine HCl.  You only need a gram of pure HCl or maybe a bit more of the whole plant extract.  It is expensive and if you are buying rootbark, then you’ll need to eat an awful lot.
Shawn

In a message dated 6/13/2004 2:00:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time, adamg@013.net.il writes:
My mistake…. Brooke did buy from ethnogarden, and that’s the company/site
I meant was neither cheap nor reliable… I tried getting some dealer
pricing from them, seeing as I had a bunch of people ready for lift-off
and their pricing was outrageous… I don’t know of anyone, including
a friggin’ millionaire from BC who’s gonna order 250gms of HCl to get the
price
to come down from $333 a gram to $300 (yeah, that’s the discount these
guys are thinkin’ up– here’s me hopin’ they’re still holding their
breathe )

And Brooke bought 50gms and that stuff did not do the job, so you gotta
be thinkin’ 100gms, imo, regardless of the source you end up buying from…

BTW, Seeing as someone on this list has NOT come forth and mentioned
how pleasantly palatable my ibo-dogs® are..ahem… I will yet again mention
that using narrow ‘sausage-casings’ to make loose/flacid ibo-dogs is the
best way to get a serious quantity of iboga down the chute…

…errr… but get your watcher to freshen up on his heimlich maneuver,
just to be on the safe side…

bon appetite,
AG

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Hello!
Date: June 16, 2004 at 12:59:02 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Shawn, Howard and all other mindvoxians,                                                                                                                                                                                                                Thanx for the replys and the hope you put across. Sometimes I need to just talk about what’s in my head while I am trying get this whole thing together. You all seem to be the people I can relate to the best. O. MY GOD just where does that put me?LOL The people in the rooms just weren’t sprung as tight as this I guess..I guess what I really want to hear is that I’m going to get the full experience from the treatment and not fuck up like I fucked up everything else I’ve tried. I know that eventually I’ll get the treatment cause I wont stop till I get it.                                                                                                                                      Thanx

Randy

P.S.   I’d really like to Know about Ibo and lucid dreamers

From: CrookedEye420@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] post-withdrawal withdrawal..
Date: June 16, 2004 at 12:55:14 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The poppy is an opiate, so using poppies may be creating a dependence, but Cannabis always helps me with minor residual withdrawal.

In a message dated 6/12/2004 7:50:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jfreed1@umbc.edu writes:
i come to you wisened peoples for help…

recently, i’ve been having particularly bad post-withdrawal withdrawal…
there’s probably a better word for it, but what i mean is that i’ve been
of junk for something like 5 and a half years, and sometimes i still have
withdrawal symptoms. the past few days have been especially bad, maybe
because i had a dream about doing heroin a few nights ago. anyway, i was
wondering if anyone might have suggestions of how to deal with it.

currently i’m adhering to a strict regimen of cannabis and california
poppy. they help some, particularly the pot, but i’d be very interested to
hear how other people deal with it.

thanks very much

From: CrookedEye420@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Hello!
Date: June 16, 2004 at 12:26:58 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I was on methadone for 3 years.  2 of them I was clean of all other opiates.
Shawn

In a message dated 6/10/2004 7:46:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time, CallieMimosa@aol.com writes:
Hello Shawn!
So good to read of your clean time after Iboga! I am tapering down on my Methadone and saving for trip for treatment. Sorry to say it will be a few months before I am down to 45 or 50 mgs and have to $$ it will take to travel.
How low did you  go on your Methadone?
Please continue to post. It is very encouraging to hear from folks who are successful and it is also a learning experience to hear from those who are not successful. Those who are not successful seem to be few and far between tho.
Peace, Callie

From: CrookedEye420@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Hello!
Date: June 16, 2004 at 12:26:00 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

That was US dollars but the Euro is worth more and the more you have the better.  I could have used a bit longer stay but I did what I could afford.
Shawn

In a message dated 6/10/2004 6:50:06 AM Eastern Daylight Time, BiscuitBoy714@aol.com writes:
Shawn,                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                It sure is cool to hear a story like yours as i’m waiting to get my trip together.My situation is quite like yours ‘cept’ I’ve been doing narcotics off and on mostly on since 1974.Let me ask you, the money you talked about in the cost was it Euro’s or U.S. I’ve been considering Sara’s a lot lately and it sounds very positive. I would like to do this and come out of it with the outlook that you have. Keep it up. O yea, everthing I’ve read and the people that know whom I’ve talked to say you should do a follow up treatment some time after the first one. I guess how soon depends on the individual. Looks like methadone presents a few small difficulties but nothing we can’t whup.You rock. Keep in touch.

Randy

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] HELLO DAVE!
Date: June 16, 2004 at 10:53:59 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 6/16/04 8:33:07 AM, BiscuitBoy714@aol.com writes:

Ibogaine
is my last hope. I’ve done every other mode of treatment from RBT,RET to
shrinks to 12 step programs and every thing in between. I was joking the
other day  about giving blowjobs to get Ibo money, but I am saving and
scheming for
my Ibo treatments and if that doesn’t work I’ll cross that bridge when it
comes.

Randy,

Don’t view ibogaine as your last hope but, as an interesting door to open.
Behind that door is everything including the possibility of choice.  I hope
that is not too frightening.  Ibogaine is the most interesting and beneficial
drug I have come across. If you have not read clinical perspectives I suggest you
might, http://www.ibogaine.org/clin-perspectives.html after that you might
want to review http://www.doraweiner.org/alexanderlotsof.html

Whatever else, ibogaine is NOT your last hope.

Regards,

Howard

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] HELLO DAVE!
Date: June 16, 2004 at 9:31:53 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I don’t know if it is the right combination of coffee and one hits out of my dugout, or what but I have had my curiosity tweaked here today. From what I’ve read on the list this morning and back logs that it reminded me of, Iboga use is all about self realization. I haven’t used it yet but just reading this list and all the information that I have found about it has brought about some self realization on my part. The post about PTWS and the information linked with it makes me wonder if there is a correlation between lucid dreamers and the likelihood of hallucinating when given a full treatment dose of Ibogaine. It sounds like the effect of the drug is a whole lot like the lucid dreams that I personally have had. I had just about every one of the symptoms of PTWS as a kid except for the acting out of the traumatic event repeatedly. My dreams are like going to the movies with color, sound, emotions and maybe even smells. I had reoccurring dreams about nukes and global disaster to the point that by the time I was I was 15 my attitude was like, we are all going to die in a nuclear holocaust, give me that shot of Mexican mud and where can you get some more. If no heroin, dilaudids, or pantapons or what ever I would drink whiskey hoping to find a shot of scag at the bottom of the bottle. I have big issues from childhood and had the best mother in the world so it wasn’t her fault. No father around like a lot of junkies but both brothers missed addiction. Ibogaine is my last hope. I’ve done every other mode of treatment from RBT,RET to shrinks to 12 step programs and every thing in between. I was joking the other day about giving blowjobs to get Ibo money, but I am saving and scheming for my Ibo treatments and if that doesn’t work I’ll cross that bridge when it comes.      THANX

Randy

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] (OT) Re: [ibogaine] HELLO DAVE!
Date: June 16, 2004 at 9:27:22 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks Steve,
I’ll be dreaming about mules and stations in mountains now, which I
think are much more pleasant than some of the other things I dream about
sometimes lately-I once went backpacking in New Mexico, and used mules on a
couple days of the journey. Didn’t notice whether they were horney or not.
Anyway, I pass on good day wishes to everyone, particularly to those who
have posted in recent days about trying to get treated with ibogaine. As
most who have spent time on this list know, I too fantasize about someday
trying ibogaine for a myriad of reasons, but am not in any rush at this
point in time.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Steven Anker” <stevenanker@hotmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 12:18 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] HELLO DAVE!

Whoops, I meant to just send it to Dave. Not the whole darn list. How
fucking embarassing… yes a pack station with horses and mules… I work
at
one every summer… Anyway…. one day I hope to have my own. Sorry… And
sure Preston, would love to teach you the finer points of mules. They are
hornery little critters…

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] HELLO DAVE!
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:31:43 -0400

My dream is to run a
pack-station in Yosemite.<

Hey, Steve,
If by pack station you mean working with animals, pack mules, and
ever
need someone to help out around the station, please, feel free to give me
a
hollar. I’ve been having this dream lately of just getting away from it
all
and moving somewhere where I’m not surrounding by human insanity 24 hours
a
day.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Steven Anker” <stevenanker@hotmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 7:26 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] HELLO DAVE!

Hey Dave,

I’m from Northern CA as well. My family built the road into Yosemite.
The
Tiago pass and that tree you can through come from my kin. Do you know
the
Old Priest Grade? That was my family name – Priest; our ranch is the
driveway at the top. In addition to road building we ran the best
brothel
in
the area. If you are ever in the Big Oak Flat or Groveland area, give
a
call. Right now I’m deciding whether to move back up to the ranch as I
am
getting very sick of LA and the film business. My dream is to run a
pack-station in Yosemite. Film making and horses are my two skills. I
have
been working on a film about iboga with Daniel Pinchbeck if you are
interested.

Anyway, I found this one posting I kept of yours and really feel that
you
have great insight. I put together this pamphlet for a friend going
through
ibogaine and I thought you could add to it. The thinking is that it is
an
evolving organic document. Please look over and see if there is
anything
you
feel you could add which could help people after the fact. What I’m
trying
to do is come up with a better post-care procedure for iboga, you can
help.

http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/KeepingClean.html

Best,
Steve

From: “D H” <dave@phantom.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine help
Date: 29 May 2004 06:07:34 -0000

Hello Andy,

All you can do (as you are probably well aware) is make the
suggestions.
As Sara pointed out, too often addicts attempt to get clean for the
wrong reasons (other than for themselves) and eventually, if not
immediately, return to using.

I wouldn’t judge the drinking and smoking too fast, I am a believer
in
harm reduction, although there is something to be said for complete
abstinence (for a while, to clean out the tubes, anyway) although the
12
step approach often leaves the addict so consumed by guilt if he/she
does “relapse” that they tend to use even more to drown out the
shameful feelings (and I speak from personal experience here).

Statistically, the odds are pretty poor for 12 step recovery working
(less than 10%). I forget the numbers, but a decent amount of addicts
end up maturing out of their using in their 30’s. I also read that
statistics showed of those people who “matured” out of their using
and
relapsed, used less and for shorter a time that those who relapsed
out
of a 12 step recovery. Hmmm, don’t know how I got into the 12 step
stuff… Oh yeah, harm reduction: don’t worry about a flooded
basement
when the roof is on fire! Put out the fire first, then deal with the
basement! Whatever it takes!

So Ibogaine… is without a doubt the most amazing experience of my
life
(aside from being a new parent). Yes, it can be hard (exhausting) but
for me the rewards far outweighed and continue to outlast any
physical
discomfort at the time of dosing. I was at one time an addict who
didn’t have any dreams or aspirations for my life after the age of
30,
for I firmly believed I would die before then.

There were certainly fun parts of the ibogaine experience (the
visuals
were incredible), experiencing the plant spirit and collective
conscience is really something to behold. I did not have any ego
struggle like an LSD trip, it was all very loving and nurturing when
I
took it in 1998 to get off methadone. Sure, I felt like death warmed
over afterwards, but I did not experience 90% of the withdrawls that
I
would have cold turkey. -I had not been taking very good care of my
body
during my addiction and a lot of my using was self medication after
breaking my back so it took some time for me to recover physically.
There was a lot of repetition in the experience, a lot of information
was pounded into my skull over and over by iboga both visually and
aurally, in that sense it was relentless. Then again I am a pretty
stubborn guy so I needed that. The Iboga spirit was also very
humorous,
if not a full on prankster.

Essentially, Iboga was a remembering experience, re-teaching me my
spiritual identity in the universe. Everything I experienced I
already
knew, it just needed the “splitting of my skull” to be released
again.

I feel the best way for you is to lead by example, not words. If you
really want, try Iboga and see how it helps you. Your son may see
this
and get interested (or not).

best of luck and peace,

-DH

On 5/28/2004, “Ambeatty@aol.com” <Ambeatty@aol.com> wrote:

Ok, here goes,

My son is clean, for now, because he’s in jail (minor possession,
dui,
warrent default). He’ll be out in about a month and I am afraid –
expecting –
preparing for a relapse. He thinks he’ll stay clean, but I’ve seen
how
persistant
heroin is. Also, he wants to drink and smoke and that’s probably an
easy
way to
break down.

I’ve suggested ibogaine, researched it, am ready to make
arrangements.
At
first, he said, sure, he’d take anything, do whatever. Now he says
he
doesn’t
like hallucinogens, doesn’t want a long, difficult trip….does
like
himself the
way he is, will maybe just do acid.
I’ve read the ibogaine experiences and it sounds alright to me. Is
it
really
long and difficult? Not sleeping for 36 hours? It sounds as though
the
best
part is after. Are there fun parts of the experience? or is it like
taking your
medicine? It seems as though if it was pleasant it would tend to be
addictive.

What can I say or do or not do? Leave him alone? I’m the mommy and
he
tends
to not do what I suggest or even to do the opposite.
What do you guys think?

Comments and suggestions very, very appreciated,
Andy

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From: Laurent Sazy <laurentsazy@free.fr>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: Hello
Date: June 16, 2003 at 7:41:13 AM EDT
To: Steven Anker <stevenanker@hotmail.com>, <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Le 15/06/04 20:10, « Steven Anker » <stevenanker@hotmail.com> a écrit :

Hey Laurent,

First off, great photographs! If you ever want a list of Los Angeles
galleries I can send them on to you as my wife is a photographer and knows
all the local photo galleries.

Second off, I regret haven writen that turkey line and I’ll post an appology
but I wanted to write and appologize to you first. I’m sorry. I’m one of
those people who doesn’t have any internal censor and just let’s it all out
without thinking ahead. The second I sent it I went whoops, not good.

I have never met Mellende, so I can not judgements. So you know,
Hugue/Tatayo never said one bad thing about Mellende. Many others did. The
line about McDonalds one of his initiate’s told me. Something about 30 at a
time. One thing that did stike me was the amount of Shit-talking that went
on in Gabon. “I’m the best and he’s shit.” If this a higher conciousness
guiding humanity why are they all fighting? Never got a good answer. Perhaps
it is just that there is no one true way to experience iboga and that there
are many ways to experience it. Live and let live. What was also surpising
was that Gabon struck me as one of the most peaceful countires in Africa,
why all this fighting? I feel deeply ashamed that I succumbed to this base
human instinct to talk bad of others. You’d hope the iboga could raise this
base instint, but I guess it’s not it’s job.

It is OK for differences of opinion. I don’t think the Bwiti is a funny
game, but I did think there was something funny about the whole thing. You
do not find anything funny about it, it is OK to disagree don’t you think?
God may like humor as much as we do, eh?

I guess I responded so harshly for two reasons. First I think it important
that Westerners go to Gabon. It would help Gabon, don’t you think? I feel
that if we (Westerners) are to benefit so greatly from this plant should we
give back to the source.  Doing an initiation with a village seems to be a
very powerful way to experience iboga. The second reason was that awhile
back you wrote that all Nganga’s smoke weed and drink and I am a son of
Mallende so I should know and it rubbed me the wrong way. I did my
initiation in a small village outside of Lambarene and the nganga, papa
Andre, was not into weed at all and told me I was not to smoke, something
about the Bwiti being jealous. He never smoked weed and frowned upon others
smoking.

I don’t think Hugue ever claims to be a nganga or a healer. He introduced me
to many different nganga’s and I made a choice based on the one I thought
best, which is a good way for a foriegner to go about it, no?

Anyway, sorry about the hurtful and stupid comments. I was doing exactly
what I so dislike. Stupid of me. I will post a public appology if you want
me to or if you want me to drop it I will.

Best,
Steve Anker

_________________________________________________________________
Watch the online reality show Mixed Messages with a friend and enter to win
a trip to NY
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Bokayé Steve,

Now you are iniated to iboga . Next step is the Bwiti initiation , then the
Mwiri….What is your KOMBO( initiate name?).you should have one. Now you
reborn and you have a new family……..

Thank you very much to come back on what you said.
Thank you very much for your proposition about exibit in LA gallery. I will
be so happy.I would like to show them. My editor in France did nothing. No
press, no exibitions etc ….very bad communication………

Yes it is thrue. Sometimes 30 personns come to Mallendi seminar. But
Mallendi has the capacity to work with 30 personns at the same time.
He has always assistants with him to help novices.
How it happens:
First night , he gave them a vomitif and after iboga. People eat 5-6 doses
like hand doses for the first night.and they start to concentrate and to see
like they watch a movie . You just look at the pictures
The second night, you crossed the mirror and you have answers of what you
see the first night.
The way mallendi is doing is quiet different than Papa André from PK 80 from
Libreville.Papa André is a Fang. Mallendi,24 years old, is a Punu from
Mayumba(south Gabon relatively close from Pygmés.(Ehoumou, 47 years old was
iniate in Pygmés village in CONGO long time ago. Ehoumou father’s was the
NGANGA of the first Président of Gabon Léon Mba). Mallendi is initiated fom
Dissumba to Missoko gondé and to others rites. He is also initiate in
Panther initiation , did the Mwiri initiation. If you asked Ehoumou, is
spiritual father, we can say that Mallendi was a slave in the Bwiti.
Mallendi is a real Nganga .he has a genetic illness when he was young And
went trought the Tchibanga Marmite( )(I recommand a book from Michael
Talbott , “the holographic universe”. Very very interresting!
Mallendi is a young Nganga but at the same time he is an old man.
For exemple, there was a “Nganga competition” between Ehoumou and the King
of Gabon( I forget his name but live near Lambarene).Ehoumou was  the
winner. I’m not putting mallendi or Ehoumou as heros but in what I saw in
Gabon, they are the best Imeet and people you can believe.
Ehoumou is the best nganga I met. He is a very good teacher and has a lot of
knowledge. Just one problem he smokes and drink a lot. But when you
transform yourself to a spirit, it takes you a lot of energy and you need a
lot of “petrol” to travel. He will teach you the thrue.
Ngenza means the thrue. Before in the Bwiti they were in the Bassé.
In the ngenza we just work with wood leafs and bark or roots. No bones no
cranes and no poisons, like if you go at the King initiation or others
places.
In the ngenza, all preparation are made in front of you. Never the Nganga
will prepare in secret. The Ngenza means the opening. Before the bwiti was
closed and secret. The Ngenza is the openning for western people. Tatayo get
the Ngenza mask during a ceremony where there was initiates from differents
rites(north, south, west and east, blacks and whites people).
Few month after,in April 2000 I arrived in Gabon. During a night vision, I
saw all the storie I’m doing in Iboga and Bwiti. I get all signs where my
road is completely opens in the Bwiti and that was confirmed in all step I
did .
Even in France in my home, I have my BUENZE and all the staff of Bwiti. Even
I have the Bwiti in my garden.

I would like to know if you did the Edika ceremony in the initiation and if
you did the banana full of iboga.(the edika is the paquet for reconstruction
with your cosmic cord inside.)(you are supposed to keep it in your Bwiti
staff). I would like to share more informations but I can’t with no initiate
and also you have to see yourself to understand!  (the edika looks like a
spoutnik coming back from space in the morning. It is the place you travel
in your inside and outside.
Who were in your initiation. I know Papa André is very old and don’t
understand sometimes. Don’t believe Tatayo. Papa andré was a pot smoker like
Tatayo and most of the Ngangas.
I know that it is very difficult to understand why they are so shit talking
(like Tatayo says: why giving holy-wood to stupid people just give them
chicken shit).
If Tatayo bring you to Papa Andre, it is because he did it at the same place
in 1979.
Mallendi was the president of Ebando association with Tatayo and Christophe.
But they separate for money problem. The repartition of the little money
they start to make was a problem so each follow is own road.
Since Mallendi went to France, Tatayo was loose. No more Nganga for the
association, so no more initiation and nobody in Tatayo village. Tatayo has
a special character and he is to complicate to work with people.
We are not in the colony times.You can’t treat the people like he does!( we
are not shit)
I don’t complain about Tatayo . I know him and I respêcted him.
We are all Tatayo in the mind. He wants to do a lot but he is to complicate
in his head!
If people criticize mallendi it is because he succeed and people are
envious! and each protect his own chapels.
I have an outside point of view. Even for me it was difficult in the
beginnig. Who believe? Even after the initiation, you don’t understand what
happens but it will come. You will get all the answer of what you see in the
mirror or next.Maybe it can takes one year or more. I ‘m still discovering
the road I’m following and still understand elements.
So the ritual is very important and probably more for western people.
As a westerner, I read the cosmic snake(Jeremy Narby) and others books from
Mircea Eliade to Castaneda. Even I will advise Jeremy Narby to go to Gabon,
he will have the answer of what he is looking.
The Bwiti is our ancester. Pygmés are the oldest people from the past still
living. The world start in central Africa and the life start on earth.
We are loosing our world to look for E. T in the space. The Bwiti will
explain you . It is not necessary to look on left or right. Everything is in
the middle. (remmenber what Tatayo explain you about the Mask and were it
happens. It was the same for me for the pirogue.)
Did you understand why it was important to clap in your hand during iboga
ceremony, and what is the process………etc
The Bwiti is the first university on earth. In the Bwiti you will have all
explication about you and your environment. From the feet to the head.
It was the school for the pygmés to learn how to survive in the rainforest
and to treat all pathology they can meet in forest.
Why Bwiti is very strict and not funny because the life in jungle is fucking
hard and you can’t be stupid because you will be dead! to many snakes,
animals, poisons, etc

How to help Gabon: it is a good question.
Gabon is a very rich country, by forests, minerales, oil, etc
For me it is like a french departement under the tropics, because every body
speaks french, are dressed in city like in Paris, etc
Did you see the rich houses near Tatayo places? They are so fucking rich,and
they fly to Paris every 2 weeks.they spend there money in Cartier, Channel
Dior….etc 5% get all the money. The rest are living in suburbs(matiti) and
villages .
Most of the gabonese living in Libreville are more “white” than I am.
No problem of security in Gabon , very safe and cool people. You can travel
every where with out problems.
If you want to help, I can talk about mallendi’s idea to open a
hospital-village in Panga (south Gabon). A very good place for initiation
and chamanic exhange between africa and the rest of the world.
The problem with Gabonese people, they will waste! As they waste there
country with the benediction of French Power. I don’t blame them, it is a
question of cultures and traditions and educations. Also we gave them a bad
look!Did you see how much we sell the Gabon to China economy.They buy now
all the oil and they cut forest with no respect. Iboga is not only plants
.there are many plants for medecine but nobody respect the forest and it
becomes very difficult to find them. Ngangas are obliged to go far away to
find them.

For me the best to help Gabon was to do the Bwiti initiation and after the
Mwiri initiation. Now with the understand I get , I can say how much the
bwiti and iboga is very important and why I support iboga unstead of
ibogaine.
Gabonese under colonisation loose their tradition. During centuries, whites
people told them that their ritual was sorcellery and very bad.They should
go to the christian church and pray holy-father.
If more and more people are initiate to Bwiti and iboga, we could fight (all
initiate are our brotherhood ). This is why now the work of Mallendi is very
important in Europe and to publish books also is very important to get the
consideration from gabonese. Most of gabonese don’t respect their own
tradition and prefer to go to church because colony and missionaries push
them in the church. The new respect of the Bwiti will come from the western
world. If a white man told to a gabonese that the Bwiti rite is fantastic,
they will beleive the white man.It is like that in Gabon!
(Mwiri is the initiation when you go really deeper in the knowledge of the
forest world. When you are initiate in the Mwiri, you become an
eco-warriors. In the past, Mwiri was the environement police to protect the
forest ressources.
Did you hear about the influence of white father in Sects( synchretic
church, the new Jesus ….etc all this shit are very influent in Gabon.

I can talk more and more

I wish you all the best and if you need more informations you are welcome

For them who wants to go to Gabon, I know different places. It depends of
what you are looking and what you need.

For exemple, mallendi and Ehoumou works is good for people who wants to
learn about the natural sciences and consultations( when you see throught
the body and when you are able to help people. It is good for men, young
people and peole who wants a really local initiation. They make all the
process from pygmés traditions. It is very hard with a lot of protocols. You
will get the all package of your initiation. Mostly Bwiti Missoko-gonde,
Ngenza & iboga initiation.
Local life in village with all risks. No english speaking actually.
E-mail:   Mallendi@voila.fr

Christophe and wife(she is gabonese and has the right to initiate ) are a
very good place for women and people who don’t want to suffer. No many
protocols and good food, love and fraternity. An initiation in a good family
with no confusions, no muddle. There is electricity, water, etc,confort.
And nobody triying to stole your money or your staff. You can do your
initiation with no bad trip. A place for iboga & spirituality initiation
( web: Mbeng Ntame family)
E-Mail: christophe mathelin:      c.mathelin@caramail.com

Tatayo is very good to give you all information you need in Gabon.
Also he speaks english. A good place to stay in Libreville!
A lot of energy!
He is the white man who better than gabonese their culture.
I can’t confirm for initiation. it depends who works with him.
If you want to go to pygmes initiation he is your man.
He has all contacts with institutions in Gabon.
The first time, I land there.
E-mail: Tatayo.ma-missoba” <ibogabon@yahoo.fr>

ALL the best et bonne appetit

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Steven Anker” <stevenanker@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] HELLO DAVE!
Date: June 16, 2004 at 12:18:14 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Whoops, I meant to just send it to Dave. Not the whole darn list. How fucking embarassing… yes a pack station with horses and mules… I work at one every summer… Anyway…. one day I hope to have my own. Sorry… And sure Preston, would love to teach you the finer points of mules. They are hornery little critters…

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] HELLO DAVE!
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:31:43 -0400

>My dream is to run a
pack-station in Yosemite.<

Hey, Steve,
If by pack station you mean working with animals, pack mules, and ever
need someone to help out around the station, please, feel free to give me a
hollar. I’ve been having this dream lately of just getting away from it all
and moving somewhere where I’m not surrounding by human insanity 24 hours a
day.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Steven Anker” <stevenanker@hotmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 7:26 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] HELLO DAVE!

>
> Hey Dave,
>
> I’m from Northern CA as well. My family built the road into Yosemite. The
> Tiago pass and that tree you can through come from my kin. Do you know the
> Old Priest Grade? That was my family name – Priest; our ranch is the
> driveway at the top. In addition to road building we ran the best brothel
in
> the area. If you are ever in the Big Oak Flat or Groveland area, give a
> call. Right now I’m deciding whether to move back up to the ranch as I am
> getting very sick of LA and the film business. My dream is to run a
> pack-station in Yosemite. Film making and horses are my two skills. I have
> been working on a film about iboga with Daniel Pinchbeck if you are
> interested.
>
> Anyway, I found this one posting I kept of yours and really feel that you
> have great insight. I put together this pamphlet for a friend going
through
> ibogaine and I thought you could add to it. The thinking is that it is an
> evolving organic document. Please look over and see if there is anything
you
> feel you could add which could help people after the fact. What I’m trying
> to do is come up with a better post-care procedure for iboga, you can
help.
>
>
> http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/KeepingClean.html
>
> Best,
> Steve
>
> >From: “D H” <dave@phantom.com>
> >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine help
> >Date: 29 May 2004 06:07:34 -0000
> >
> >
> >Hello Andy,
> >
> >All you can do (as you are probably well aware) is make the suggestions.
> >As Sara pointed out, too often addicts attempt to get clean for the
> >wrong reasons (other than for themselves) and eventually, if not
> >immediately, return to using.
> >
> >I wouldn’t judge the drinking and smoking too fast, I am a believer in
> >harm reduction, although there is something to be said for complete
> >abstinence (for a while, to clean out the tubes, anyway) although the 12
> >step approach often leaves the addict so consumed by guilt if he/she
> >does “relapse” that they tend to use even more to drown out the
> >shameful feelings (and I speak from personal experience here).
> >
> >Statistically, the odds are pretty poor for 12 step recovery working
> >(less than 10%). I forget the numbers, but a decent amount of addicts
> >end up maturing out of their using in their 30’s. I also read that
> >statistics showed of those people who “matured” out of their using and
> >relapsed, used less and for shorter a time that those who relapsed out
> >of a 12 step recovery. Hmmm, don’t know how I got into the 12 step
> >stuff… Oh yeah, harm reduction: don’t worry about a flooded basement
> >when the roof is on fire! Put out the fire first, then deal with the
> >basement! Whatever it takes!
> >
> >So Ibogaine… is without a doubt the most amazing experience of my life
> >(aside from being a new parent). Yes, it can be hard (exhausting) but
> >for me the rewards far outweighed and continue to outlast any physical
> >discomfort at the time of dosing. I was at one time an addict who
> >didn’t have any dreams or aspirations for my life after the age of 30,
> >for I firmly believed I would die before then.
> >
> >There were certainly fun parts of the ibogaine experience (the visuals
> >were incredible), experiencing the plant spirit and collective
> >conscience is really something to behold. I did not have any ego
> >struggle like an LSD trip, it was all very loving and nurturing when I
> >took it in 1998 to get off methadone. Sure, I felt like death warmed
> >over afterwards, but I did not experience 90% of the withdrawls that I
> >would have cold turkey. -I had not been taking very good care of my body
> >during my addiction and a lot of my using was self medication after
> >breaking my back so it took some time for me to recover physically.
> >There was a lot of repetition in the experience, a lot of information
> >was pounded into my skull over and over by iboga both visually and
> >aurally, in that sense it was relentless. Then again I am a pretty
> >stubborn guy so I needed that. The Iboga spirit was also very humorous,
> >if not a full on prankster.
> >
> >Essentially, Iboga was a remembering experience, re-teaching me my
> >spiritual identity in the universe. Everything I experienced I already
> >knew, it just needed the “splitting of my skull” to be released again.
> >
> >I feel the best way for you is to lead by example, not words. If you
> >really want, try Iboga and see how it helps you. Your son may see this
> >and get interested (or not).
> >
> >best of luck and peace,
> >
> >-DH
> >
> >
> >
> >On 5/28/2004, “Ambeatty@aol.com” <Ambeatty@aol.com> wrote:
> >
> > >Ok, here goes,
> > >
> > >My son is clean, for now, because he’s in jail (minor possession, dui,
> > >warrent default). He’ll be out in about a month and I am afraid –
> >expecting –
> > >preparing for a relapse. He thinks he’ll stay clean, but I’ve seen how
> >persistant
> > >heroin is. Also, he wants to drink and smoke and that’s probably an
easy
> >way to
> > >break down.
> > >
> > >I’ve suggested ibogaine, researched it, am ready to make arrangements.
At
> > >first, he said, sure, he’d take anything, do whatever. Now he says he
> >doesn’t
> > >like hallucinogens, doesn’t want a long, difficult trip….does like
> >himself the
> > >way he is, will maybe just do acid.
> > >I’ve read the ibogaine experiences and it sounds alright to me. Is it
> >really
> > >long and difficult? Not sleeping for 36 hours? It sounds as though the
> >best
> > >part is after. Are there fun parts of the experience? or is it like
> >taking your
> > >medicine? It seems as though if it was pleasant it would tend to be
> >addictive.
> > >
> > >What can I say or do or not do? Leave him alone? I’m the mommy and he
> >tends
> > >to not do what I suggest or even to do the opposite.
> > >What do you guys think?
> > >
> > >Comments and suggestions very, very appreciated,
> > >Andy
> > >
> > >
>
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
> > > [%](> Further Information & List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
> ><)[%]
> > >
>
>\]=———————————————————————=[/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
> >  [%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
> ><)[%]
> >
>
>\]=———————————————————————=[/
> >
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfeeŪ
> Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
>
>
>
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<)[%]
>
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>
>

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] PAWS info
Date: June 16, 2004 at 12:13:07 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Very interesting.
I worked at CareUnit, a drug and alcohol treatment, when I first graduated Nursing in 1985.
We called these phases ‘BUD” (building up to drink)
These studies probably had not even been done. We didn’t know about them if they were. The phases had just been recognized as patterns by some of the old timers in AA.
Callie
Thanks for the info!

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] HELLO DAVE!
Date: June 15, 2004 at 9:31:43 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

My dream is to run a
pack-station in Yosemite.<

Hey, Steve,
If by pack station you mean working with animals, pack mules, and ever
need someone to help out around the station, please, feel free to give me a
hollar. I’ve been having this dream lately of just getting away from it all
and moving somewhere where I’m not surrounding by human insanity 24 hours a
day.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Steven Anker” <stevenanker@hotmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 7:26 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] HELLO DAVE!

Hey Dave,

I’m from Northern CA as well. My family built the road into Yosemite. The
Tiago pass and that tree you can through come from my kin. Do you know the
Old Priest Grade? That was my family name – Priest; our ranch is the
driveway at the top. In addition to road building we ran the best brothel
in
the area. If you are ever in the Big Oak Flat or Groveland area, give a
call. Right now I’m deciding whether to move back up to the ranch as I am
getting very sick of LA and the film business. My dream is to run a
pack-station in Yosemite. Film making and horses are my two skills. I have
been working on a film about iboga with Daniel Pinchbeck if you are
interested.

Anyway, I found this one posting I kept of yours and really feel that you
have great insight. I put together this pamphlet for a friend going
through
ibogaine and I thought you could add to it. The thinking is that it is an
evolving organic document. Please look over and see if there is anything
you
feel you could add which could help people after the fact. What I’m trying
to do is come up with a better post-care procedure for iboga, you can
help.

http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/KeepingClean.html

Best,
Steve

From: “D H” <dave@phantom.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine help
Date: 29 May 2004 06:07:34 -0000

Hello Andy,

All you can do (as you are probably well aware) is make the suggestions.
As Sara pointed out, too often addicts attempt to get clean for the
wrong reasons (other than for themselves) and eventually, if not
immediately, return to using.

I wouldn’t judge the drinking and smoking too fast, I am a believer in
harm reduction, although there is something to be said for complete
abstinence (for a while, to clean out the tubes, anyway) although the 12
step approach often leaves the addict so consumed by guilt if he/she
does “relapse” that they tend to use even more to drown out the
shameful feelings (and I speak from personal experience here).

Statistically, the odds are pretty poor for 12 step recovery working
(less than 10%). I forget the numbers, but a decent amount of addicts
end up maturing out of their using in their 30’s. I also read that
statistics showed of those people who “matured” out of their using and
relapsed, used less and for shorter a time that those who relapsed out
of a 12 step recovery. Hmmm, don’t know how I got into the 12 step
stuff… Oh yeah, harm reduction: don’t worry about a flooded basement
when the roof is on fire! Put out the fire first, then deal with the
basement! Whatever it takes!

So Ibogaine… is without a doubt the most amazing experience of my life
(aside from being a new parent). Yes, it can be hard (exhausting) but
for me the rewards far outweighed and continue to outlast any physical
discomfort at the time of dosing. I was at one time an addict who
didn’t have any dreams or aspirations for my life after the age of 30,
for I firmly believed I would die before then.

There were certainly fun parts of the ibogaine experience (the visuals
were incredible), experiencing the plant spirit and collective
conscience is really something to behold. I did not have any ego
struggle like an LSD trip, it was all very loving and nurturing when I
took it in 1998 to get off methadone. Sure, I felt like death warmed
over afterwards, but I did not experience 90% of the withdrawls that I
would have cold turkey. -I had not been taking very good care of my body
during my addiction and a lot of my using was self medication after
breaking my back so it took some time for me to recover physically.
There was a lot of repetition in the experience, a lot of information
was pounded into my skull over and over by iboga both visually and
aurally, in that sense it was relentless. Then again I am a pretty
stubborn guy so I needed that. The Iboga spirit was also very humorous,
if not a full on prankster.

Essentially, Iboga was a remembering experience, re-teaching me my
spiritual identity in the universe. Everything I experienced I already
knew, it just needed the “splitting of my skull” to be released again.

I feel the best way for you is to lead by example, not words. If you
really want, try Iboga and see how it helps you. Your son may see this
and get interested (or not).

best of luck and peace,

-DH

On 5/28/2004, “Ambeatty@aol.com” <Ambeatty@aol.com> wrote:

Ok, here goes,

My son is clean, for now, because he’s in jail (minor possession, dui,
warrent default). He’ll be out in about a month and I am afraid –
expecting –
preparing for a relapse. He thinks he’ll stay clean, but I’ve seen how
persistant
heroin is. Also, he wants to drink and smoke and that’s probably an
easy
way to
break down.

I’ve suggested ibogaine, researched it, am ready to make arrangements.
At
first, he said, sure, he’d take anything, do whatever. Now he says he
doesn’t
like hallucinogens, doesn’t want a long, difficult trip….does like
himself the
way he is, will maybe just do acid.
I’ve read the ibogaine experiences and it sounds alright to me. Is it
really
long and difficult? Not sleeping for 36 hours? It sounds as though the
best
part is after. Are there fun parts of the experience? or is it like
taking your
medicine? It seems as though if it was pleasant it would tend to be
addictive.

What can I say or do or not do? Leave him alone? I’m the mommy and he
tends
to not do what I suggest or even to do the opposite.
What do you guys think?

Comments and suggestions very, very appreciated,
Andy

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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<)[%]

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<)[%]

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_________________________________________________________________
Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee®
Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] PTSD question
Date: June 15, 2004 at 9:18:41 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 6/15/04 6:42:33 PM, stevenanker@hotmail.com writes:

Does anyone have any experience with or knowledge of reports of the use
of ibogaine in treating PTSD? I sense that one of the reasons iboga is
effective is that it treats the underlying causes of addiction which are
often a by-product of trauma. I’ve also witnessed iboga in being effective
in treating eating disorders which seems related as well. If iboga could
be shown to be effective in treating PTSD it would be considered a major
breakthrough in treating PTSD which may lead to further research. Any help
would be greatly appreciated.

Steve,

A lot of people who work with ibogaine anticipate it would be useful with
ptsd.  However, there has been no organized study to determine if that is true.
Below I have posted the dam IV definition of pats.

Howard

http://www.behavenet.com/capsules/disorders/ptsd.htm

DSM-IV & DSM-IV-TR:

Posttraumatic Stress Disorder
————————————————————————

When an individual who has been exposed to a traumatic event develops anxiety
symptoms, reexperiencing of the event, and avoidance of stimuli related to
the event lasting more than four weeks, they may be suffering from this Anxiety
Disorder.
Diagnostic criteria for 309.81 Posttraumatic Stress Disorder
(cautionary statement)

A. The person has been exposed to a traumatic event in which both of the
following were present:

(1) the person experienced, witnessed, or was confronted with an event or
events that involved actual or threatened death or serious injury, or a threat to
the physical integrity of self or others
(2) the person’s response involved intense fear, helplessness, or horror.
Note: In children, this may be expressed instead by disorganized or agitated
behavior

B. The traumatic event is persistently reexperienced in one (or more) of the
following ways:

(1) recurrent and intrusive distressing recollections of the event, including
images, thoughts, or perceptions. Note: In young children, repetitive play
may occur in which themes or aspects of the trauma are expressed.
(2) recurrent distressing dreams of the event. Note: In children, there may
be frightening dreams without recognizable content.
(3) acting or feeling as if the traumatic event were recurring (includes a
sense of reliving the experience, illusions, hallucinations, and dissociative
flashback episodes, including those that occur on awakening or when intoxicated
). Note: In young children, trauma-specific reenactment may occur.
(4) intense psychological distress at exposure to internal or external cues
that symbolize or resemble an aspect of the traumatic event
(5) physiological reactivity on exposure to internal or external cues that
symbolize or resemble an aspect of the traumatic event

C. Persistent avoidance of stimuli associated with the trauma and numbing of
general responsiveness (not present before the trauma), as indicated by three
(or more) of the following:

(1) efforts to avoid thoughts, feelings, or conversations associated with the
trauma
(2) efforts to avoid activities, places, or people that arouse recollections
of the trauma
(3) inability to recall an important aspect of the trauma
(4) markedly diminished interest or participation in significant activities
(5) feeling of detachment or estrangement from others
(6) restricted range of affect (e.g., unable to have loving feelings)
(7) sense of a foreshortened future (e.g., does not expect to have a career,
marriage, children, or a normal life span)

D. Persistent symptoms of increased arousal (not present before the trauma),
as indicated by two (or more) of the following:

(1) difficulty falling or staying asleep
(2) irritability or outbursts of anger
(3) difficulty concentrating
(4) hypervigilance
(5) exaggerated startle response

E. Duration of the disturbance (symptoms in Criteria B, C, and D) is more
than 1 month.

F. The disturbance causes clinically significant distress or impairment in
social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.

Specify if:

Acute: if duration of symptoms is less than 3 months
Chronic: if duration of symptoms is 3 months or more

Specify if:

With Delayed Onset: if onset of symptoms is at least 6 months after the
stressor

Reprinted with permission from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of
Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition, Text Revision.  Copyright 2000 American
Psychiatric Association

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From: “Steven Anker” <stevenanker@hotmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] PTSD question
Date: June 15, 2004 at 7:41:36 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Does anyone have any experience with or knowledge of reports of the use of ibogaine in treating PTSD? I sense that one of the reasons iboga is effective is that it treats the underlying causes of addiction which are often a by-product of trauma. I’ve also witnessed iboga in being effective in treating eating disorders which seems related as well. If iboga could be shown to be effective in treating PTSD it would be considered a major breakthrough in treating PTSD which may lead to further research. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Steve

_________________________________________________________________
Get fast, reliable Internet access with MSN 9 Dial-up – now 3 months FREE! http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/

/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
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From: “Steven Anker” <stevenanker@hotmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] HELLO DAVE!
Date: June 15, 2004 at 7:26:17 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Dave,

I’m from Northern CA as well. My family built the road into Yosemite. The Tiago pass and that tree you can through come from my kin. Do you know the Old Priest Grade? That was my family name – Priest; our ranch is the driveway at the top. In addition to road building we ran the best brothel in the area. If you are ever in the Big Oak Flat or Groveland area, give a call. Right now I’m deciding whether to move back up to the ranch as I am getting very sick of LA and the film business. My dream is to run a pack-station in Yosemite. Film making and horses are my two skills. I have been working on a film about iboga with Daniel Pinchbeck if you are interested.

Anyway, I found this one posting I kept of yours and really feel that you have great insight. I put together this pamphlet for a friend going through ibogaine and I thought you could add to it. The thinking is that it is an evolving organic document. Please look over and see if there is anything you feel you could add which could help people after the fact. What I’m trying to do is come up with a better post-care procedure for iboga, you can help.

http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/KeepingClean.html

Best,
Steve

From: “D H” <dave@phantom.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine help
Date: 29 May 2004 06:07:34 -0000

Hello Andy,

All you can do (as you are probably well aware) is make the suggestions.
As Sara pointed out, too often addicts attempt to get clean for the
wrong reasons (other than for themselves) and eventually, if not
immediately, return to using.

I wouldn’t judge the drinking and smoking too fast, I am a believer in
harm reduction, although there is something to be said for complete
abstinence (for a while, to clean out the tubes, anyway) although the 12
step approach often leaves the addict so consumed by guilt if he/she
does “relapse” that they tend to use even more to drown out the
shameful feelings (and I speak from personal experience here).

Statistically, the odds are pretty poor for 12 step recovery working
(less than 10%). I forget the numbers, but a decent amount of addicts
end up maturing out of their using in their 30’s. I also read that
statistics showed of those people who “matured” out of their using and
relapsed, used less and for shorter a time that those who relapsed out
of a 12 step recovery. Hmmm, don’t know how I got into the 12 step
stuff… Oh yeah, harm reduction: don’t worry about a flooded basement
when the roof is on fire! Put out the fire first, then deal with the
basement! Whatever it takes!

So Ibogaine… is without a doubt the most amazing experience of my life
(aside from being a new parent). Yes, it can be hard (exhausting) but
for me the rewards far outweighed and continue to outlast any physical
discomfort at the time of dosing. I was at one time an addict who
didn’t have any dreams or aspirations for my life after the age of 30,
for I firmly believed I would die before then.

There were certainly fun parts of the ibogaine experience (the visuals
were incredible), experiencing the plant spirit and collective
conscience is really something to behold. I did not have any ego
struggle like an LSD trip, it was all very loving and nurturing when I
took it in 1998 to get off methadone. Sure, I felt like death warmed
over afterwards, but I did not experience 90% of the withdrawls that I
would have cold turkey. -I had not been taking very good care of my body
during my addiction and a lot of my using was self medication after
breaking my back so it took some time for me to recover physically.
There was a lot of repetition in the experience, a lot of information
was pounded into my skull over and over by iboga both visually and
aurally, in that sense it was relentless. Then again I am a pretty
stubborn guy so I needed that. The Iboga spirit was also very humorous,
if not a full on prankster.

Essentially, Iboga was a remembering experience, re-teaching me my
spiritual identity in the universe. Everything I experienced I already
knew, it just needed the “splitting of my skull” to be released again.

I feel the best way for you is to lead by example, not words. If you
really want, try Iboga and see how it helps you. Your son may see this
and get interested (or not).

best of luck and peace,

-DH

On 5/28/2004, “Ambeatty@aol.com” <Ambeatty@aol.com> wrote:

>Ok, here goes,
>
>My son is clean, for now, because he’s in jail (minor possession, dui,
>warrent default). He’ll be out in about a month and I am afraid – expecting –
>preparing for a relapse. He thinks he’ll stay clean, but I’ve seen how persistant
>heroin is. Also, he wants to drink and smoke and that’s probably an easy way to
>break down.
>
>I’ve suggested ibogaine, researched it, am ready to make arrangements. At
>first, he said, sure, he’d take anything, do whatever. Now he says he doesn’t
>like hallucinogens, doesn’t want a long, difficult trip….does like himself the
>way he is, will maybe just do acid.
>I’ve read the ibogaine experiences and it sounds alright to me. Is it really
>long and difficult? Not sleeping for 36 hours? It sounds as though the best
>part is after. Are there fun parts of the experience? or is it like taking your
>medicine? It seems as though if it was pleasant it would tend to be addictive.
>
>What can I say or do or not do? Leave him alone? I’m the mommy and he tends
>to not do what I suggest or even to do the opposite.
>What do you guys think?
>
>Comments and suggestions very, very appreciated,
>Andy
>
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>
>

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Hep-C query
Date: June 15, 2004 at 6:14:30 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 6/15/04 2:20:01 PM, magicka30@hotmail.com writes:

Dear Howard

I am based in England and have performed several informal ibogaine treatments
on addicts and people wanting to take ibogaine for self-development
purposes. I first heard of iboga in 1991 and after years of searching I
eventually found the huge source of information on the internet when I
was given a computer in 1999. In 2001 I went to Mexico and was treated
by Sam Waizmann and Ana Lorenzo, a great couple who I owe alot to.

However, I am writing to you to ask specifically aboutabout prospective
client who has terminal Hep-C. His liver is in a bad way and the doctors
gave him a year to live about 6 years ago! He really wants to be able to
‘feel’ life again, unfuzzied by the haze of opiates. What advice would
you give? Does the iboga have any direct effects on the liver that could
be detrimental?

I look forward to your reply. Yours sincerely, Bridgette Taylor.

Hi Bridgette,

When medical doctors tell you, you have a dead man in your hands, the last
thing you want is for that man to die after you have dosed him with ibogaine.
Considering that the fatality that had been reported in 2000 in the UK was in
an hcv patient, my perception is that if you treat this patient and they die
that you will be brought up on criminal charges.  That is not something you want
to have happen.  Further, you do not proceed to treat a patient without
having their full medical reports on any significant condition they may have.  A he
said/she said of a doctor’s reports simply won’t fly.

Ibogaine may not kill the patient but, if he dies while being treated,
ibogaine and you will be blamed.

If the patient is that set on being treated he should take it up with the
Mexican group and see if they will take responsibility for treating him.  Or if
he has the financial ability, he should contact St. Kitts.  Based on the
preliminary information it is not out of the possibility that the patient also has
other significant medical disorders.

As to ibogaine and the liver, it may not be so much that ibogaine is hard on
the liver but, that the liver does effect the way ibogaine is metabolized and
a diseased liver may metabolize ibogaine to noribogaine very differently than
a health liver.

I can understand your wanting to help this person but, must advise you NOT TO
except to refer him to persons with medical background.  And even in that
case I would advise those medical professionals if they decide to proceed to do a
dose escalation workup to determine the effects of ibogaine on the patient in
a cautious manner rather than simply giving a therapeutic dose of ibogaine.

Howard

Howard S. Lotsof
President
Dora Weiner Foundation
POB 10032
Staten Island, NY 10301-0032
USA
dir tel, 1 718 442-2754
dir fax, 1 718 442-1957
email, dwf123@earthlink.net
http://www.doraweiner.org

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From: Kerry Morris <nodrugsforeme@bushinternet.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Hep-C query
Date: June 15, 2004 at 5:26:34 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Bridgette,
I’m based in the UK and my 24 year old girlfriend is considering taking Ibogaine to get off heroine, having already gotten off gear twice so far as physical withdrawal is concerned but then returning to it within a few weeks because of the craving brought on by depression and just not feeling ‘right’.

Can you possibly email me privately with information about the service you provide and where you are based at all?

Best Regards,
Steven.

—–Original Message—–
From: magicka30@hotmail.com (Bridgette Taylor)
Sent: Tue Jun 15 20:19:11 BST 2004
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Hep-C query

<html><div style=’background-color:’><P>Dear Howard</P>
<P>I am based in England and have performed several informal ibogaine treatments on addicts and people wanting to take ibogaine for self-development purposes. I first heard of iboga in 1991 and after years of searching I eventually found the huge source of information on the internet when I was given a computer in 1999. In 2001 I went to Mexico and was treated by Sam Waizmann and Ana Lorenzo, a great couple who I owe alot to.</P>
<P>However, I am writing to you to ask specifically about a prospective client who has terminal Hep-C. His liver is in a bad way and the doctors gave him a year to live about 6 years ago! He really wants to be able to ‘feel’ life again, unfuzzied by the haze of opiates. What advice would you give? Does the iboga have any direct effects on the liver that could be detrimental? </P>
<P>I look forward to your reply. Yours sincerely, Bridgette Taylor.<BR><BR></P><BR><BR><BR>
<DIV>
<P align=left><FONT face=”Lucida Handwriting, Cursive” color=#cc0099 size=5><STRONG><U></U></STRONG></FONT> </P></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Sign up to the MSN Premium service in June and receive a FREE webcam worth £39.99!  <a href=”http://g.msn.com/8HMBENUK/2734??PS=47575″>More details here.</a> </html>

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From: “Bridgette Taylor” <magicka30@hotmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Hep-C query
Date: June 15, 2004 at 3:19:11 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Howard
I am based in England and have performed several informal ibogaine treatments on addicts and people wanting to take ibogaine for self-development purposes. I first heard of iboga in 1991 and after years of searching I eventually found the huge source of information on the internet when I was given a computer in 1999. In 2001 I went to Mexico and was treated by Sam Waizmann and Ana Lorenzo, a great couple who I owe alot to.
However, I am writing to you to ask specifically about a prospective client who has terminal Hep-C. His liver is in a bad way and the doctors gave him a year to live about 6 years ago! He really wants to be able to ‘feel’ life again, unfuzzied by the haze of opiates. What advice would you give? Does the iboga have any direct effects on the liver that could be detrimental?
I look forward to your reply. Yours sincerely, Bridgette Taylor.

 

Sign up to the MSN Premium service in June and receive a FREE webcam worth £39.99! More details here. /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%](> Further Information & List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

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From: “Bridgette Taylor” <magicka30@hotmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Hep-C query
Date: June 15, 2004 at 3:19:11 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Howard
I am based in England and have performed several informal ibogaine treatments on addicts and people wanting to take ibogaine for self-development purposes. I first heard of iboga in 1991 and after years of searching I eventually found the huge source of information on the internet when I was given a computer in 1999. In 2001 I went to Mexico and was treated by Sam Waizmann and Ana Lorenzo, a great couple who I owe alot to.
However, I am writing to you to ask specifically about a prospective client who has terminal Hep-C. His liver is in a bad way and the doctors gave him a year to live about 6 years ago! He really wants to be able to ‘feel’ life again, unfuzzied by the haze of opiates. What advice would you give? Does the iboga have any direct effects on the liver that could be detrimental?
I look forward to your reply. Yours sincerely, Bridgette Taylor.

 

Sign up to the MSN Premium service in June and receive a FREE webcam worth 」39.99! More details here. /]=———————————————————————=[¥ [%](> Further Information & List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%] ¥]=———————————————————————=[/

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] UK treatments
Date: June 15, 2004 at 2:48:42 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

There appear to be two principal ibogaine providers in the UK at this time.
However, some years ago it was indicated that with ibogaine and iboga extracts
available in the UK it was anticipated that an average of one self-treatment
a week was taking place.  Any updates on this information?

Thanks

Howard

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From: “Hannah Clay” <spaglet@hotmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] PAWS info
Date: June 15, 2004 at 2:48:08 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jon,

I know this won’t really help you deal with your PAWs but I thought the general info might help you understand it a little better maybe?  I hope so anyway!

Hannah

—————————————————————————————————————————————————————————

FLARE UP PERIODS
The term “flare up periods” or “flare ups” refer to definite time periods during which the recovering alcoholic/addict experiences an increased amount of tension and anxiety. Should he return to the use of alcohol or drugs, it will most likely be during one of these flare up periods. It is important, therefore, that the recovering alcoholic/addict, his family, his friends, his employer and anyone else who may play an important role during these periods become aware of how to recognize the onset of a flare up period and what to do when one occurs.
Flare ups occur at predictable intervals: five to six days, four to five weeks, eight to ten weeks, thirteen weeks, six months, nine months, and eleven to thirteen months after the last use of alcohol/drugs.
Factors in recognizing the onset of a flare up include feelings of irritability, moodiness, boredom, restlessness and difficulty in eating and sleeping. These emotional states grow in intensity and come to a peak which lasts up to three days. During these three days, the recovering alcoholic/ addict may be extremely depressed and irritable. He may feel all is hopeless, that nothing can go right and display outbursts of anger for almost no reason or because of something which would ordinarily be considered insignificant. There are also some physical signs indicating that he is approaching a danger zone. He may develop aches and pains, he may perspire more than ordinary and he may have headaches.There also may be behavior changes. These changes are sometimes so slight that they would be passed off without undue attention unless one is watching for them. Uncharacteristic juvenile behavior, unreasonable giggling and joy, expressions of weariness, restlessness or boredom, and a sudden concern about his health, job, family, loneliness, etc. are examples of such behavior changes.
WHAT TO DO
1. The first step in dealing with a flare up is to expect them and watch for the signs.
2. When you suspect that you are entering a flare up period, seek help from someone who will understand what you are going through, your counselor or therapist, your spouse, a fellow group member, AA, CA or a good friend (who won’t offer you a drink or drug) are possible sources of help. Sometimes just calling someone to talk to , going for a drive or working on a hobby will help reduce the tension of a flare up. In any case, it is best to keep busy.
3. Realize that the storm will pass. Flare ups usually last from one to three days. After it passes, things will return to normal again.
4. DO NOT DRINK! DO NOT USE DRUGS! One drink or drug will set off a chain reaction and you’ll find yourself completely loaded and right back where you started!
given to me by a counselor long ago -Dan

Hospitals have studied druggies/alkies that were brought in with brain damage severe enough to induce coma. The patients had to be fed through a tube. While they were hooked up to the IV’s they took daily blood samples. A curious pattern started to emerge when they compared the tests for several hundred people who had stopped drinking/drugging when they were admitted to the hospitals. (coma’s do that ya know… help you stop using that is…)
They found that the level of endorphines (pleasure receptors) dropped to zero after 4-7 days. Then after about 24-72 hours the endorphines came back AT A HIGHER LEVEL than they had been. Then at about 30 days the levels dropped to zero again. But after another 24-72 hours they came back, again at a higher level! This phenomenon repeats itself at a suspiciously familiar interval…
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
normal endorphine level
~~++++++++++++++++
users level — drugs/alcohol (+) provide the balance
~~
1st week sober (notice the lack of drug support)

FLARE UP (24-72 hours each time)
~~~~
after 1st flare up (4-7 days)
~~~~~~
after 30 day’s flare up
~~~~~~~~
after 60 day’s flare up
~~~~~~~~~~
after 90 day’s flare up
~~~~~~~~~~~~
after 6 month’s flare up
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
after 9 month’s flare up
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
after a year’s flare up
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
normal level reached after 1 1/2 years or more.
Notice how the Flare-ups occur in the same time periods as we give chips? Makes one wonder doesn’t it?
I imagine you are asking yourself… So?  So – if you relapse you start back at the beginning of the chart because your body stopped making endorphines when the drugs/alcohol started supplying them. That is one of the reasons people don’t want to come back – they don’t feel all right. Another reason is ego. Hang in there and you WILL feel better.

From: iboga@ziplip.com <iboga@ziplip.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Welcome Home
Date: June 15, 2004 at 11:10:28 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“Tatayo and Disumba,

Thank you very much!!”

Thank you cannot express the potency of gratitude I feel for Tatayo and Disumba deciding to speak so I can better hear truth.
For real.
With Love,
-Jason

—–Original Message—–
From: marko@mindvox.com [mailto:marko@mindvox.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004, 5:27 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] question4Dr’s.or.knowledgable

Tatayo and Disumba,

Thank you very much!!

;-))

Marko

On 6/12/2004, “D” <disumba@yahoo.fr> wrote:

For Marko who is asking about Iboga’s slowers. There are many local plants
according to symptoms.
We feel allowed to tell you that papaw is the right fruit to slow Iboga
down.

T&D

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From: iboga@ziplip.com <iboga@ziplip.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] FW: Primate detox
Date: June 15, 2004 at 9:54:30 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You’ve read the book, do they pay attention to set and setting when using iboga on primates? : )

—–Original Message—–
From: Patrick K. Kroupa [mailto:digital@phantom.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004, 6:04 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] FW:   Primate detox

On [Mon, Jun 14, 2004 at 11:26:54PM +0100], [Hattie] wrote:

| What a great article. Would love to know if the gorillas really are on the
| iboga, wonder where he got his info from.
|
| Incidentally Giorgio Samorini wrote an excellent book on animal drug use,
| the translation of which was called Animals and Psychedelics. Bit of a lame
| title really but extremely informative book that details a wide range of
| animal drug use, seeming to suggest that it was a quite “natural” drive to
| want to get high! Who would have thought it??!! From elephants waiting for
| fruit to ferment before consuming them, to lamas chewing coca and goats
| chewing Khat. Funny he didn’t mention the use of alan or iboga as he has
| done a fair amount of research on both these substances.

This is an absolutely rockin’ book.  It’s filled with TrutH.  Who would
believe such a thing was possible!??!?!

Ronald K. Siegel, Ph.D.
Intoxication: Life in Pursuit of Artificial Paradise


/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/104-0037986-8489520?v=glance&s=books&n=507846#product
-details

“Recent ethnological and laboratory studies with islands of primates using
analysis of social and biological history suggest that the pursuit of
intoxication with drugs is a primary motivational force in the behavior of
organisms.  Our nervous system, like those of all rodents and primates, is
arranged to respond to chemical intoxicants in much the same way it
responds to rewards of food, drink, and sex.  Throughout our entire
history as a species, intoxication has functioned like the basic drives of
hunger, thirst, and sex; in many cases overshadowing all other desires,
needs, and activities in life.

Intoxication IS the fourth drive.”

Yeah, Yeah YEAH!  YEaHyeAHYEaHYEahYEAHYEAH!@#!@#!!!!!!!!!!!!! HappY!

Uhm, well, like, no shit dude!  I strongly agree.

Patrick

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From: iboga@ziplip.com <iboga@ziplip.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] post-withdrawal withdrawal. – herbal help
Date: June 15, 2004 at 9:49:04 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“Now, I don’t generally give much credence to something someone at NA would
say, but it seems a better explaination than what the doctors have come up
with so far.”

In my limited experience, the NA groups around D/FW were mostly about speed use cloaked under the guise of ‘drugs'(all the same?), them and the kids who got cought with herb w/ parants have been taught that it was the right thing to do to take them to more ‘hardcore addicts’ (“you ever sucked dick for coke?”) for help with compulsion (emergency group concions meeting about espresso maker because people having 15 cups in an hour.  Spike the coffee with ibogaine, I bet that would make the papers : ) [disclamer at beginning of ‘Jackass’]

But yeah, I think the groups can be as productive as the people in them make them, the more options available the better right?  I have seen 12 steps help plenty people and that is a good thing i.e. the pro’s seem to outweigh the cons.  For me at the time it was like spiritual kindergarden.*
(the astrick to that is i sponsored people for 2 years out of 3 years their as an ignorant youth, i after my time there introduced some of these people to the needle..000000000..
build or take?Primate me,)
Limited to just addiction objectives?
—–Original Message—–
From: jon f. [mailto:jfreed1@umbc.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004, 12:06 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] post-withdrawal withdrawal. – herbal help

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

Jon, How long have you been experiencing these aches and pains? I am
concerned you may have something else going on besides post-withdrawal
withdrawal as
you call it.
If it has been 5 years since you kicked you should not be having intolerable
symptoms.
I encourage you to check with your Doc or an internist to see if there is
another underlying cause for your symptoms.
Respectfully, Callie

Well, to be honest, until recently I didn’t think it was related to my
heroin use..

At first, I thought I had some weird disease.. but i had a bunch of blood
tests and such, and nothing came up. Then one doctor thought it was cause
of the anti-depressants i was on, but i’ve been on different
anti-depressants over time, and different classes of anti-depressants, and
the symptoms have remained the same.

Then the other night i asked a friend of mine who also used to be a junky
if she ever had anything like that, and she said yeah. She said she heard
at NA that it’s not uncommon.

Now, I don’t generally give much credence to something someone at NA would
say, but it seems a better explaination than what the doctors have come up
with so far. And though this certainly isn’t hard medical evidence either,
it is kinda eerie that one of the worst episodes would’ve been just after
i had a dream i did heroin in…

I mean, has anyone else had similar experiences?

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From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] FW: Primate detox
Date: June 14, 2004 at 9:02:42 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Mon, Jun 14, 2004 at 11:26:54PM +0100], [Hattie] wrote:

| What a great article. Would love to know if the gorillas really are on the
| iboga, wonder where he got his info from.
|
| Incidentally Giorgio Samorini wrote an excellent book on animal drug use,
| the translation of which was called Animals and Psychedelics. Bit of a lame
| title really but extremely informative book that details a wide range of
| animal drug use, seeming to suggest that it was a quite “natural” drive to
| want to get high! Who would have thought it??!! From elephants waiting for
| fruit to ferment before consuming them, to lamas chewing coca and goats
| chewing Khat. Funny he didn’t mention the use of alan or iboga as he has
| done a fair amount of research on both these substances.

This is an absolutely rockin’ book.  It’s filled with TrutH.  Who would
believe such a thing was possible!??!?!

Ronald K. Siegel, Ph.D.
Intoxication: Life in Pursuit of Artificial Paradise

“Recent ethnological and laboratory studies with islands of primates using
analysis of social and biological history suggest that the pursuit of
intoxication with drugs is a primary motivational force in the behavior of
organisms.  Our nervous system, like those of all rodents and primates, is
arranged to respond to chemical intoxicants in much the same way it
responds to rewards of food, drink, and sex.  Throughout our entire
history as a species, intoxication has functioned like the basic drives of
hunger, thirst, and sex; in many cases overshadowing all other desires,
needs, and activities in life.

Intoxication IS the fourth drive.”

Yeah, Yeah YEAH!  YEaHyeAHYEaHYEahYEAHYEAH!@#!@#!!!!!!!!!!!!! HappY!

Uhm, well, like, no shit dude!  I strongly agree.

Patrick

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] FW: Primate detox
Date: June 15, 2004 at 8:10:46 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Incidentally Giorgio Samorini wrote an excellent book on animal drug use,
the translation of which was called Animals and Psychedelics.<

Great little book this is too btw. Thanks for reminding me and the rest of
us of this book Hattie. I myself highly recommend this one for loads of
interesting tidbits about the animal kingdom and getting high.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Hattie” <epoptica@freeuk.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 6:26 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] FW: Primate detox

What a great article. Would love to know if the gorillas really are on the
iboga, wonder where he got his info from.

Incidentally Giorgio Samorini wrote an excellent book on animal drug use,
the translation of which was called Animals and Psychedelics. Bit of a
lame
title really but extremely informative book that details a wide range of
animal drug use, seeming to suggest that it was a quite “natural” drive to
want to get high! Who would have thought it??!! From elephants waiting for
fruit to ferment before consuming them, to lamas chewing coca and goats
chewing Khat. Funny he didn’t mention the use of alan or iboga as he has
done a fair amount of research on both these substances.

Reminds me, has anyone tried alan – A floribunda? I did have a load once
but
it got confiscated unfortunately.

Hattie

Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 10:57:28 -0700
From: Michael Horowitz <flashbks@earthlink.net>
Subject: FW:   Primate detox
To: Hunter <dave@zoltron.com>
CC: digital@phantom.com

See last paragraph.

************************

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2001/12/26/wape26.xml

Apes were first to get high on drugs
By Roger Highfield, Science Editor
London Telegraph
(Filed: 26/12/2001)

HUMAN beings were not the first to use recreational drugs. Some apes
take stimulants and hallucinogens, sometimes munching roots that now
show promise in treating human addicts, say scientists.

Prof Michael Huffman of the Primate Research Institute, Kyoto
University and Don Cousins, author of The Magnificent Gorilla, report in
a forthcoming issue of the journal African Study Monographs that apes
may indulge in drugs – from a pick-me-up of the kind found in coffee to
hallucinogens.

Monkey on your back: apes may use drugs recreationally

Earlier work in the journal Bioscience by Prof Huffman suggested that
the practice of medicine began with our hairy ancestors: some chimps
swallow bristly, rough leaves to sweep parasites out of the gut, while
others suck the bitter pith from the tree Vernonia amygdalina, which
contains compounds active against parasites responsible for malaria and
dysentery.

Now it seems that apes may use drugs recreationally. African apes eat
the seeds of Kola trees which contain caffeine and theobromine and are
legendary for their effect in preventing fatigue. They found that two
hallucinogenic plants are ingested by gorillas in Equatorial Guinea and
chimpanzees in the Republic of Guinea: Alchornea floribunda and A.
cordifolia (Euphorbiaceae).

A floribunda is used in Gabonese cults where the root has a reputation
as an intoxicant and aphrodisiac. It is said to provide a state of
intense excitement followed by a deep, sometimes fatal depression. Most
intriguing, said Prof Huffman, is how local people claim to have
discovered the intoxicating effects of the plant by watching animals,
including gorillas, go into a frenzy of fear, as if being chased by
invisible objects, after eating the roots.

The apes even resort to a drugs detox. The Tabernanthe iboga root has
been exploited by gorillas of Sindara on the Ngounie river, South of
Lambarene.

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From: <marko@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] question4Dr’s.or.knowledgable
Date: June 15, 2004 at 6:36:23 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Tatayo and Disumba,

Thank you very much!!

;-))

Marko

On 6/12/2004, “D” <disumba@yahoo.fr> wrote:

For Marko who is asking about Iboga’s slowers. There are many local plants
according to symptoms.
We feel allowed to tell you that papaw is the right fruit to slow Iboga
down.

T&D

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From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Gabon ahoy
Date: June 15, 2004 at 4:40:30 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I am sorry for asking you this for I get the feeling you really do not wish to repeat what negativity existed and exists, but being new to this site I am unfamiliar with specifics. What was the Lawsuit you referred to between Dr. Mash and Howard? On a larger scale, do you think the animosity is just another manifestation of human beings not “getting along” or is is something more specific to drugs, this site et al.

Thank You Carla Barnes,
Julian

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [iboga] opportunity
Date: June 15, 2004 at 4:22:13 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Good Morning Friend! As I was reading your letter, it reminded me of my situation in regards to the methadone. There are a few  insightful and informative people, (to name a couple- Jason and Callie) who have gotten me to think about the bigger picture. I really believe Iboga/Ibogaine would be of great imortance in one’s life. I intend to experience it and though I was dead set to finally rid myself of chemical dependance, their words made me think about how much methadone in my case has been a life saver. What it did for me was to insure that I would not be very disappointed if I used Iboga/Ibogaine, stayed clean but discovered that I needed methadone. I am hoping for certain goals to be fulfillled, but finding out for certain what my goals and expectations should be (realistically) is very important. Anyway, I hope you find what you are seeking.
sincerely,
Julian

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: [ibogaine] vaccine
Date: June 15, 2004 at 4:01:29 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The Guardian 

Drug treatment charities yesterday welcomed the first scientific evidence that a new “vaccine” against cocaine addiction could provide an extra line of defence in fighting drug abuse, helping users to quit by preventing them from getting high. 
In early medical trials, the vaccine helped to reduce the likelihood of a relapse in recovering addicts – and made taking the drug less pleasurable for those who succumbed. 

Experts believe cocaine use has become far more prevalent in Britain in the last 10 years. A recent survey by the music magazine MixMag suggested it could soon overtake ecstasy as the dance drug of choice in clubs, and Aidan Gray, director of the Conference on Crack and Cocaine (Coca), says existing drug users have been turning to cocaine – instead of heroin, for example – in recent years. 

”Britain is becoming much more a stimulant orientated society than opiate orientated, and cocaine’s at the head of that,” he said. “It’s market-led; dealers make a better profit on crack cocaine, and a crack user comes back more quickly than a heroin user.” 

Despite the common belief that it is a non-addictive, “lifestyle” drug, counsellors say cocaine exerts a strong psychological pull on its regular users, and can also have serious physical withdrawal symptoms. 

According to the charity Drugscope, those who try to give up “will very quickly start to feel tired, panicky, exhausted and unable to sleep, often causing extreme emotional and physical distress. This can manifest itself in symptoms such as diarrhoea, vomiting, the shakes, insomnia, anorexia and sweating, which for some can prove unbearable.” 

Mr Gray said the social effects of regular use could also be very serious. “When a cocaine habit gets really bad, it’s as bad as a heroin addict. There are so many health consequences – and it’s also what it does to your life: do you keep your job?; does your partner leave you? – it may be affecting your moods and your personality.” 

Dependency


According to the most recent British Crime Survey figures, for 2001-2, 58,000 people had used the smokable and highly addictive “crack” form of cocaine within the previous 12 months, and 622,000 people had used pure cocaine. In the US, it is estimated that 900,000 people a year present themselves at clinics for treatment for cocaine dependency. 

The government published a national plan for “tackling crack” two years ago, but with success rates for drug rehabilitation programmes low, it is hoped that a “vaccine” approach, which attenuates the effect the drug has on the brain, could one day supplement more conventional therapy. 

Yesterday’s trial results showed that in a small-scale study at Yale Medical School in the US, the cocaine vaccine prevented three-quarters of a group of nine recovering addicts from relapsing into cocaine use. In a second group of 13 regular users, it helped 58% to quit and remain cocaine-free for the 12 weeks of the study. 

Perhaps more importantly, among those participants in the trial who relapsed into taking cocaine within six months, most – 88% in one study and 63% in the other – said the euphoric effect had decreased. The vaccine works by stimulating the body to produce antibodies against cocaine, which prevent it passing through the blood-brain barrier and giving users the drug’s euphoric kick. 

Xenova, the small Slough-based firm which is developing the vaccine, is one of a number of pharmaceutical firms hoping to cash in on helping patients to resist their cravings. 

Sanofi-Synthélabo, the French drugs giant which is about to clinch an audacious takeover of its French rival Aventis, has a drug called Rimonabant in development, which it claims can help patients both to quit smoking and to lose weight. Scientists developed the drug by tracing the way cannabis-use creates the hunger pangs popularly known as the “munchies”. And a British firm, Phytopharm, which specialises in plant-based medicines, is in the final stages of developing an appetite suppressant based on an African cactus. 

With the links between lifestyle and illness – and obesity in particular – high on the public policy agenda, firms which give patients a helping hand in conquering their habits expect to generate healthy sales. Xenova is already developing a nicotine vaccine using a similar approach. 

Mr Gray, of Coca, said if the anti-cocaine injection proves successful in larger-scale trials, which will take several years to complete, it could be useful. 

”If it works in the way they say it going to work, it could be adopted by drug-treatment centres – but you have to look at all the other things that help someone get off a drug,” he said. 

It takes many years for a pharmaceutical product to reach the market – Xenova has already begun a much larger study of its cocaine vaccine on 130 patients, which should report in 2006, and it will then have to carry out a third wave of even larger trials, before trying to convince regulators to give their approval to putting the drug on the market. Even then, a spokesman for the charity Drugscope agreed, cautioning against looking for a quick-fix “cure” for any addiction. “It seems this has worked for a number of people, but it’s important to make sure you’ve found out what’s going on in that person’s life,” she said.

From: iboga@ziplip.com <iboga@ziplip.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] David’sFilm4Dr’s.or.knowledgable
Date: June 15, 2004 at 2:16:12 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Anyone know any good contact info for film production companies/organizations and film festival companies/organizations to help get more people to see David Graham Scotts film?

Anyone know how to get to see?

I wonder is their Bwiti tape as well?, perhaps the tools to make it would be good in the hands of the tribes?

Engineers of new tools to build or take?

Barbara’s computer is down,
good person,
post-iboga treatment therapy only, no facilitation,
I wonder how many Barbara’s I’m unaware of.

I wonder how many therapy, psychiatric, spiritual associations/organization know about the potential of iboga, would they embrace it or feel threatened by it.

Am I the only one
who can’t recall
all the names of medics
who bled the ground red
on front lines without guns

The prayer in part 6 happened at 11:11 p.m. last night and again at 11:11 a.m. today, I wonder if ‘the timing’ was irrelevant.

Electricity prays:

“
..to be understood is to understand or
to be loved is to love
with all my heart.
All my heart.”

—–Original Message—–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com [mailto:HSLotsof@aol.com]
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004, 12:54 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] question4Dr’s.or.knowledgable

In a message dated 6/14/04 11:54:12 AM, disumba@yahoo.fr writes:

Dear Howard,
I did answer through Disumba’s mail but i’m Hugues Poitevin/Tatayo and
i’m the one you know. First of all seeing a classical doc is right. According
to what Howard wrote.

Imho, (i don’t know ibogaïne) during Iboga’s therapy it is often seeing
that the person has no more needs. About a week at least. Then the taste
becomes
very selective. Here we say that no animals eat everything. It may occur
that the given Iboga is too much comparatively to feelings and sensitivity
of the person.

I do regret that during ibogaine’s therapy the ritual and the and the
specific analysis of the person is forgotten. Each one is unique !!! Each
master too and all this does not fit with the global approach of currently
used prescrition in western medicine.

This is the quite feeling of all true gabonese’s masters.

Truely faithfully yours.
Tatayo and Disumba

Disumba,

It is so good to have you present yourself.  Concerning your statement:

I do regret that during ibogaine’s therapy the ritual and the and the
specific analysis of the person is forgotten. Each one is unique !!! Each
master too and all this does not fit with the global approach of currently
used prescrition in western medicine.

In my opinion the best western doctors act as do the gabonese masters you
describe by recognizing each person as unique and also that the doctors in the
west are themselves unique.  That is the reason there are some very good
doctors
and some that should not be practicing medicine or only doing so at risk to
their patients.

If there is anything I can do for you please let me know.  I have added your
web page with both french and english links to the Ibogaine Dossier links page
http://www.ibogaine.org/links.html in the Bwiti section but that is very
little.

One of my desires since becoming acquainted with iboga is that africans would
speak for themselves rather than by way of europeans.  Thank you for that.

With warmest regards,

Howard

Howard S. Lotsof
President
Dora Weiner Foundation
POB 10032
Staten Island, NY 10301-0032
USA
dir tel, 1 718 442-2754
dir fax, 1 718 442-1957
email, dwf123@earthlink.net
http://www.doraweiner.org

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From: marcus israel <vesch69@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] post-withdrawal withdrawal..
Date: June 15, 2004 at 1:50:08 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

–Thank you, man- AG <adamg@013.net.il> wrote:

Marcus,

Didn’t mean to mislead you or anyone regarding
the ibo-dogs, it’s just a technique for ingesting a
whole bunch of rootbark- -the ‘registered mark’
was in jest, as though the idea is so amazing it
ought to have ‘patent-pending’ stamped all over
it….

There are other techniques one can consider if one
had a decent amount of rootbark, but like I said, I
don’t think you ought to go with ‘rootbark’ for your
initial detox round, HCl is your best bet….

Other than that, I’m not a supplier or a resource,
just someone who was brave in a dumb way and
dumb in a brave way and did iboga in africa and
a bunch of times since then.
And like others who’ve had the intense displeasure
of downing fresh rootbark, I attest to the fact that
nothing comes close to its wholesomeness…if I had
another group of friends who were up to doing
an iboga initiation, the ibo-dogs would be served
as the last course, as eating the raw stuff does
wonder
in treating any ‘spoilness’ in you, and in that
sense,
trust me, you don’t know the devil in you till you
start gargling some holy-water.(lol)…

My best advice is don’t wish it, intend it, open a
savings
account and every penny you put into it will let the
universe
know that you mean business (they love that) and
then
just let it unfold in ways you never even imagined,

AG

“We’re all here cuz we’re not all here.”  Anon.

—– Original Message —–
From: “marcus israel” <vesch69@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 4:22 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] post-withdrawal withdrawal..

AG,
I have been hoping (for quite some time now) to
become connected with ibogaineHcl , yet the only
true
prospect was being offered to me only if I could
make
the trip in Seattle.  I am living in N.Y.C.  This
is
not to say that I am not willing to go to
necessary
lengths in order to reach my desired goal, it’s
just
that currently I am more or less bound (by my
opiate
addiction) here.  I’ve taken to searching ,
lately,
for viable alternatives to traveling abroad and/or
paying ridiculous amounts  of money (that I don’t
ever
have,..at least not in one place at one time,
y’know?)

anyhow, I inquired to you because I noticed that
you
trademarked the word ibo-dog..Truthfully, from
what
i’ve been seeing, it appears that rootbark is not
the
way to go, …please reply if you have time,
perhaps
you can foward some helpfull information,
Marcus
— AG <adamg@013.net.il> wrote:

Marcus and all,

I’m not sure if ‘ibo-dogs’ is right for you,
you’re
probably much better off
obtaining some HCl (1-2gms)
Understand that rootbark means taking a rather
big
chance on eating a huge
pile of vileness in the form of woodchips which
may
not even get you seeing
‘trails’….

Like Steve Anker said, africa is not for
addicts, do
the HCl and stay clean
long enough to do the real thing, a year or two
down
the road… now that
would be a trip worth it’s weight in gold…

But for those set on doing ‘rootbark’,
sausage-casings can make it almost
too easy…   just make them limp/flacid, (i.e,
whatever you do, don’t stuff
them) wet and on the narrow side, pretty simple,
really… perhaps a good
indication for size is something like one’s
middle-finger, maybe a bit
longer, but about that much volume…

The casing comes in a very long roll, more like
an
accordion
type thing where you stretch out an arms length
at a
time, it’s
dry and brittle, but as soon as you put it under
the
tap, it-
well, a condom is what comes to mind, although
it
doesn’t
stretch, it is very slippery but tends to dry
real
fast- just dunk
in water and swallow and if swallowing a
tasteless
thingamajig turns you a shade of green maybe
smear
some
maple-syrup on it.

This is just a lot more feasible and sensible
than
using gel-caps
which can only accomodate a very small amount
and
thus you’d be up half the
night popping them and probably throwing up from
the
repetitiveness of it
all… this way, you can do 5-10 ‘drops’ and
hold
the nausea at bay till
it’s really time to hurl. And then, if you wanna
up
the dose, you can do
some more and it’s relatively without discomfort
and
no taste whatsoever.

(expect your body to get mighty pissed at you
for
pulling
a sneaky stunt like that)

Ask around your area, specialty/deli places
might
have some for sell or
otherwise point you in the right direction. And
just
so we’re on the same
page- this is vegetable-base synthetic casing
–not
the stomach-lining of a
farm-animal…

One more suggestion, get plenty of the ‘casing’
cuz
it’s very misleading and
do some trial runs with oatmeal or something to
see
what’s cool insofar as
quantity, and of course, pulverize the root
using
those nifty
coffee-grinders.

all the best,
AG

—– Original Message —–
From: “marcus israel” <vesch69@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2004 8:48 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] post-withdrawal
withdrawal..

=== message truncated ===

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Friends.  Fun.  Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger.
http://messenger.yahoo.com/

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] post-withdrawal withdrawal. – herbal help
Date: June 14, 2004 at 11:04:14 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 6/14/04 9:26:20 PM, jfreed1@umbc.edu writes:

Jon, How long have you been experiencing these aches and pains? I am
concerned you may have something else going on besides post-withdrawal
withdrawal as
you call it.
If it has been 5 years since you kicked you should not be having
intolerable
symptoms.
I encourage you to check with your Doc or an internist to see if there
is
another underlying cause for your symptoms.
Respectfully, Callie

Well, to be honest, until recently I didn’t think it was related to my
heroin use..

At first, I thought I had some weird disease.. but i had a bunch of blood
tests and such, and nothing came up. Then one doctor thought it was cause
of the anti-depressants i was on, but i’ve been on different
anti-depressants over time, and different classes of anti-depressants,
and
the symptoms have remained the same.

Then the other night i asked a friend of mine who also used to be a junky
if she ever had anything like that, and she said yeah. She said she heard
at NA that it’s not uncommon.

Now, I don’t generally give much credence to something someone at NA would
say, but it seems a better explaination than what the doctors have come
up
with so far. And though this certainly isn’t hard medical evidence either,
it is kinda eerie that one of the worst episodes would’ve been just after
i had a dream i did heroin in…

I mean, has anyone else had similar experiences?

Jon, without having the reports of a medical examination by a competent
physician, try to find one, it would be difficult to do anything but speculate.
However, the phenomena of a conditioned response is not uncommon.  You dream
about heroin and exhibit withdrawal.  On the other hand there are many people
given cursory examinations which do not find significant medical problems.

Howard

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From: “jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] post-withdrawal withdrawal. – herbal help
Date: June 14, 2004 at 10:23:54 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

Jon, How long have you been experiencing these aches and pains? I am
concerned you may have something else going on besides post-withdrawal withdrawal as
you call it.
If it has been 5 years since you kicked you should not be having intolerable
symptoms.
I encourage you to check with your Doc or an internist to see if there is
another underlying cause for your symptoms.
Respectfully, Callie

Well, to be honest, until recently I didn’t think it was related to my
heroin use..

At first, I thought I had some weird disease.. but i had a bunch of blood
tests and such, and nothing came up. Then one doctor thought it was cause
of the anti-depressants i was on, but i’ve been on different
anti-depressants over time, and different classes of anti-depressants, and
the symptoms have remained the same.

Then the other night i asked a friend of mine who also used to be a junky
if she ever had anything like that, and she said yeah. She said she heard
at NA that it’s not uncommon.

Now, I don’t generally give much credence to something someone at NA would
say, but it seems a better explaination than what the doctors have come up
with so far. And though this certainly isn’t hard medical evidence either,
it is kinda eerie that one of the worst episodes would’ve been just after
i had a dream i did heroin in…

I mean, has anyone else had similar experiences?

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] So im back
Date: June 14, 2004 at 8:15:09 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

What an accomplishment! You should be very proud!
If I were you I would be running as fast as I could to the closest Iboga Treatment! Sounds like physically and mentally that you are in the perfect place for Ibogaine treatment!
Michigan is close to Canada. I sure wish I knew some names to turn you on to, Canadian Iboga Treatment Centers. I bet somebody will answer your call for help!
If you are going to California, I would think Mexico would be the closest but you said Northern California so Canada still seems like the best place.
If no one calls out to help….just keep hollering! The squeaky wheel gets oiled.
I feel like things will be great!
Callie

From: Hattie <epoptica@freeuk.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] FW: Primate detox
Date: June 14, 2004 at 6:26:54 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

What a great article. Would love to know if the gorillas really are on the
iboga, wonder where he got his info from.

Incidentally Giorgio Samorini wrote an excellent book on animal drug use,
the translation of which was called Animals and Psychedelics. Bit of a lame
title really but extremely informative book that details a wide range of
animal drug use, seeming to suggest that it was a quite “natural” drive to
want to get high! Who would have thought it??!! From elephants waiting for
fruit to ferment before consuming them, to lamas chewing coca and goats
chewing Khat. Funny he didn’t mention the use of alan or iboga as he has
done a fair amount of research on both these substances.

Reminds me, has anyone tried alan – A floribunda? I did have a load once but
it got confiscated unfortunately.

Hattie

Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 10:57:28 -0700
From: Michael Horowitz <flashbks@earthlink.net>
Subject: FW:   Primate detox
To: Hunter <dave@zoltron.com>
CC: digital@phantom.com

See last paragraph.

************************

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2001/12/26/wape26.xml

Apes were first to get high on drugs
By Roger Highfield, Science Editor
London Telegraph
(Filed: 26/12/2001)

HUMAN beings were not the first to use recreational drugs. Some apes
take stimulants and hallucinogens, sometimes munching roots that now
show promise in treating human addicts, say scientists.

Prof Michael Huffman of the Primate Research Institute, Kyoto
University and Don Cousins, author of The Magnificent Gorilla, report in
a forthcoming issue of the journal African Study Monographs that apes
may indulge in drugs – from a pick-me-up of the kind found in coffee to
hallucinogens.

Monkey on your back: apes may use drugs recreationally

Earlier work in the journal Bioscience by Prof Huffman suggested that
the practice of medicine began with our hairy ancestors: some chimps
swallow bristly, rough leaves to sweep parasites out of the gut, while
others suck the bitter pith from the tree Vernonia amygdalina, which
contains compounds active against parasites responsible for malaria and
dysentery.

Now it seems that apes may use drugs recreationally. African apes eat
the seeds of Kola trees which contain caffeine and theobromine and are
legendary for their effect in preventing fatigue. They found that two
hallucinogenic plants are ingested by gorillas in Equatorial Guinea and
chimpanzees in the Republic of Guinea: Alchornea floribunda and A.
cordifolia (Euphorbiaceae).

A floribunda is used in Gabonese cults where the root has a reputation
as an intoxicant and aphrodisiac. It is said to provide a state of
intense excitement followed by a deep, sometimes fatal depression. Most
intriguing, said Prof Huffman, is how local people claim to have
discovered the intoxicating effects of the plant by watching animals,
including gorillas, go into a frenzy of fear, as if being chased by
invisible objects, after eating the roots.

The apes even resort to a drugs detox. The Tabernanthe iboga root has
been exploited by gorillas of Sindara on the Ngounie river, South of
Lambarene.

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From: “AG” <adamg@013.net.il>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] post-withdrawal withdrawal..
Date: June 14, 2004 at 7:16:49 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

At last, someone with a sense of humor and good taste!!!

(..tough crowd, very tough crowd..)

AG

—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 2:38 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] post-withdrawal withdrawal..

In a message dated 6/13/2004 1:00:34 PM Central Daylight Time, adamg@013.net.il writes:

BTW, Seeing as someone on this list has NOT come forth and mentioned
how pleasantly palatable my ibo-dogs® are..ahem… I will yet again mention
that using narrow ‘sausage-casings’ to make loose/flacid ibo-dogs is the
best way to get a serious quantity of iboga down the chute…

…errr… but get your watcher to freshen up on his heimlich maneuver,
just to be on the safe side…

bon appetite,

LMAO!! Adam, I would LOVE to try your Ibo-dogs!
Callie

From: “AG” <adamg@013.net.il>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] post-withdrawal withdrawal..
Date: June 14, 2004 at 7:06:20 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Marcus,

Didn’t mean to mislead you or anyone regarding
the ibo-dogs, it’s just a technique for ingesting a
whole bunch of rootbark- -the ‘registered mark’
was in jest, as though the idea is so amazing it
ought to have ‘patent-pending’ stamped all over it….

There are other techniques one can consider if one
had a decent amount of rootbark, but like I said, I
don’t think you ought to go with ‘rootbark’ for your
initial detox round, HCl is your best bet….

Other than that, I’m not a supplier or a resource,
just someone who was brave in a dumb way and
dumb in a brave way and did iboga in africa and
a bunch of times since then.
And like others who’ve had the intense displeasure
of downing fresh rootbark, I attest to the fact that
nothing comes close to its wholesomeness…if I had
another group of friends who were up to doing
an iboga initiation, the ibo-dogs would be served
as the last course, as eating the raw stuff does wonder
in treating any ‘spoilness’ in you, and in that sense,
trust me, you don’t know the devil in you till you
start gargling some holy-water.(lol)…

My best advice is don’t wish it, intend it, open a savings
account and every penny you put into it will let the universe
know that you mean business (they love that) and then
just let it unfold in ways you never even imagined,

AG

“We’re all here cuz we’re not all here.”  Anon.

—– Original Message —–
From: “marcus israel” <vesch69@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 4:22 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] post-withdrawal withdrawal..

AG,
I have been hoping (for quite some time now) to
become connected with ibogaineHcl , yet the only true
prospect was being offered to me only if I could make
the trip in Seattle.  I am living in N.Y.C.  This is
not to say that I am not willing to go to necessary
lengths in order to reach my desired goal, it’s just
that currently I am more or less bound (by my opiate
addiction) here.  I’ve taken to searching , lately,
for viable alternatives to traveling abroad and/or
paying ridiculous amounts  of money (that I don’t ever
have,..at least not in one place at one time, y’know?)

anyhow, I inquired to you because I noticed that you
trademarked the word ibo-dog..Truthfully, from what
i’ve been seeing, it appears that rootbark is not the
way to go, …please reply if you have time, perhaps
you can foward some helpfull information,
Marcus
— AG <adamg@013.net.il> wrote:

Marcus and all,

I’m not sure if ‘ibo-dogs’ is right for you, you’re
probably much better off
obtaining some HCl (1-2gms)
Understand that rootbark means taking a rather big
chance on eating a huge
pile of vileness in the form of woodchips which may
not even get you seeing
‘trails’….

Like Steve Anker said, africa is not for addicts, do
the HCl and stay clean
long enough to do the real thing, a year or two down
the road… now that
would be a trip worth it’s weight in gold…

But for those set on doing ‘rootbark’,
sausage-casings can make it almost
too easy…   just make them limp/flacid, (i.e,
whatever you do, don’t stuff
them) wet and on the narrow side, pretty simple,
really… perhaps a good
indication for size is something like one’s
middle-finger, maybe a bit
longer, but about that much volume…

The casing comes in a very long roll, more like an
accordion
type thing where you stretch out an arms length at a
time, it’s
dry and brittle, but as soon as you put it under the
tap, it-
well, a condom is what comes to mind, although it
doesn’t
stretch, it is very slippery but tends to dry real
fast- just dunk
in water and swallow and if swallowing a tasteless
thingamajig turns you a shade of green maybe smear
some
maple-syrup on it.

This is just a lot more feasible and sensible than
using gel-caps
which can only accomodate a very small amount and
thus you’d be up half the
night popping them and probably throwing up from the
repetitiveness of it
all… this way, you can do 5-10 ‘drops’ and hold
the nausea at bay till
it’s really time to hurl. And then, if you wanna up
the dose, you can do
some more and it’s relatively without discomfort and
no taste whatsoever.

(expect your body to get mighty pissed at you for
pulling
a sneaky stunt like that)

Ask around your area, specialty/deli places might
have some for sell or
otherwise point you in the right direction. And just
so we’re on the same
page- this is vegetable-base synthetic casing –not
the stomach-lining of a
farm-animal…

One more suggestion, get plenty of the ‘casing’ cuz
it’s very misleading and
do some trial runs with oatmeal or something to see
what’s cool insofar as
quantity, and of course, pulverize the root using
those nifty
coffee-grinders.

all the best,
AG

—– Original Message —–
From: “marcus israel” <vesch69@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2004 8:48 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] post-withdrawal withdrawal..

Hello Adam,
please w/b and allow me to learn of the
“ibo-dog”s (?) you detailed in your response
(re:ibogaine-post withdrawl-withdrawl)
I am interested
Marcus L. Israel
— AG <adamg@013.net.il> wrote:

My mistake…. Brooke did buy from ethnogarden,
and
that’s the company/site
I meant was neither cheap nor reliable… I
tried
getting some dealer
pricing from them, seeing as I had a bunch of
people
ready for lift-off
and their pricing was outrageous… I don’t know
of
anyone, including
a friggin’ millionaire from BC who’s gonna order
250gms of HCl to get the
price
to come down from $333 a gram to $300 (yeah,
that’s
the discount these
guys are thinkin’ up– here’s me hopin’ they’re
still holding their
breathe )

And Brooke bought 50gms and that stuff did not
do
the job, so you gotta
be thinkin’ 100gms, imo, regardless of the
source
you end up buying from…

BTW, Seeing as someone on this list has NOT come
forth and mentioned
how pleasantly palatable my ibo-dogs®
are..ahem… I
will yet again mention
that using narrow ‘sausage-casings’ to make
loose/flacid ibo-dogs is the
best way to get a serious quantity of iboga down
the
chute…

…errr… but get your watcher to freshen up on
his
heimlich maneuver,
just to be on the safe side…

bon appetite,
AG

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Friends.  Fun.  Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger.
http://messenger.yahoo.com/

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From: Laurent Sazy <laurentsazy@free.fr>
Subject: FW: [ibogaine] Gabon ahoy
Date: June 14, 2003 at 6:05:56 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—— Message transféré
De : “Steven Anker” <stevenanker@hotmail.com>
Répondre à : ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date : Sat, 12 Jun 2004 22:26:28 -0700
À : ibogaine@mindvox.com
Objet : Re: [ibogaine] Gabon ahoy

Write to Hugue at ibogabel2003@yahoo.fr or send me an e-mail off-site and we
can set up a time and talk.

sa

From: Maryditton@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Gabon ahoy
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 12:38:26 EDT

Steve,

Thank you.  What you are saying about truly honoring the people of Gabon
who
are giving something priceless to the gringos is what we all need to be
aware
of.  It is our duty but more than that it should be a source of
exhilaration
to be able to give back.

What I’d like to know is if you are able to provide specifics about going
to
Gabon for people who would like to participate in the iboga initiation in
the
way in which you describe.

Many thanks,
Mary Ditton

_________________________________________________________________
Getting married? Find great tips, tools and the latest trends at MSN Life
Events. http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=married

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Dear Steven and Dibadi and All

I know Tatayo (hughues Poitevin, french citizen living in Gabon) and also I
know Mallendi(Herman Nzamba).
I know Tatayo experience because he told me some part. I know him because I
spent some month with him and Mallendi.
I know also how much the people of Gabon and anywhere are envious.
Mallendi and Tatayo were working together and they were relatively closed.
But one day they separate. I will not tell why and because, but it is.
Since this time, Tatayo is working alone;and Mallendi follow his road.
Christophe(an another french living in Gabon), also separate from Tatayo
village and create his own village( Mbeng-Ntame village(web site), a good
adress for iboga initiation with authorities,from his wife).
Where is the problem?
Does Mallendi is a master Nganga with authorisation to initiate people. I
will say YES.You can ask Ehoumou, his spiritual father and the 900 people
mallendi initiate.(I’m one of those and if you want as initiate we can talk
about the Bwiti and the Ngenza).
It is not a question of age. I work since 4 years with Mallendi and his
father Ehoumou( Itsa Manga).They gave me  so much !
Does Tatayo have the right(from the tradition) to initiate people. I will
say NO. Does Tatayo is a healer, I will say NO. He is just a nice
psychedelic guy who understand a lot about the Bwiti and the relativity of
human aspect” we are just a maggot and will become a maggot” “Bassé, Bassé”
Tatayo  will never give you 1cm obout the Bwiti.( I just gave you 2 cm line
before)
It is not because you eat iboga during initiation giving you the right to
initiate people.
Mallendi is a real chaman(nganga).

So Dibadi and Steven, please stop telling who is the best or not.and don’t
say Mallendi make a Mc Donald initiation. He is not a turkey. If you don’t
pay from your pocket you will not paid attention and you will waste your
initiation. Banzi(novices) in Gabon had to stay and work in the village for
maybe one year, under the control of Ngangas. Bwiti is not a funny game!!!
What Mallendi does in France is an approach of iboga initiation. It is not
the initiation. I participate to one of this seminar in France. People are
lucky to have this kind of experience in France In a soft way. Even one
night in France doing iboga is fucking hard for some people. so I can’t
imagine those people in middle of Africa having the iboga in a village. They
have confort in France that doesn’t exist in Gabon. You just sat(on the
floor) in the temple for 3 days with a lot of protocoles and authorities.

For idéa , I suggest you sat on woodboard and clap hand non stop for all
night. We can talk after… Why and how you can succeed and what it does in
yourself!
Please Dibadi don’t be the Ngozo of TATAYO.
I don’t know Marion the famous ethno-psychiatre, but I heard some comments.

Myself I had the greatest experience you can have in your life: From
invisible to visible and from visible to invisible. Ask Tatayo about the
Ngenza mask and the pirogue. Who get the pirogue after night vision?
And more…………..

Dioma Ka!  bassé, bassé,… Ngenza

—— Fin du message transféré

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From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] FW: Primate detox
Date: June 14, 2004 at 4:03:29 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 10:57:28 -0700
From: Michael Horowitz <flashbks@earthlink.net>
Subject: FW:   Primate detox
To: Hunter <dave@zoltron.com>
CC: digital@phantom.com

See last paragraph.

************************

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2001/12/26/wape26.xml

Apes were first to get high on drugs
By Roger Highfield, Science Editor
London Telegraph
(Filed: 26/12/2001)

HUMAN beings were not the first to use recreational drugs. Some apes
take stimulants and hallucinogens, sometimes munching roots that now
show promise in treating human addicts, say scientists.

Prof Michael Huffman of the Primate Research Institute, Kyoto
University and Don Cousins, author of The Magnificent Gorilla, report in
a forthcoming issue of the journal African Study Monographs that apes
may indulge in drugs – from a pick-me-up of the kind found in coffee to
hallucinogens.

Monkey on your back: apes may use drugs recreationally

Earlier work in the journal Bioscience by Prof Huffman suggested that
the practice of medicine began with our hairy ancestors: some chimps
swallow bristly, rough leaves to sweep parasites out of the gut, while
others suck the bitter pith from the tree Vernonia amygdalina, which
contains compounds active against parasites responsible for malaria and
dysentery.

Now it seems that apes may use drugs recreationally. African apes eat
the seeds of Kola trees which contain caffeine and theobromine and are
legendary for their effect in preventing fatigue. They found that two
hallucinogenic plants are ingested by gorillas in Equatorial Guinea and
chimpanzees in the Republic of Guinea: Alchornea floribunda and A.
cordifolia (Euphorbiaceae).

A floribunda is used in Gabonese cults where the root has a reputation
as an intoxicant and aphrodisiac. It is said to provide a state of
intense excitement followed by a deep, sometimes fatal depression. Most
intriguing, said Prof Huffman, is how local people claim to have
discovered the intoxicating effects of the plant by watching animals,
including gorillas, go into a frenzy of fear, as if being chased by
invisible objects, after eating the roots.

The apes even resort to a drugs detox. The Tabernanthe iboga root has
been exploited by gorillas of Sindara on the Ngounie river, South of
Lambarene.

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] question4Dr’s.or.knowledgable
Date: June 14, 2004 at 3:50:56 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 6/14/04 11:54:12 AM, disumba@yahoo.fr writes:

Dear Howard,
I did answer through Disumba’s mail but i’m Hugues Poitevin/Tatayo and
i’m the one you know. First of all seeing a classical doc is right. According
to what Howard wrote.

Imho, (i don’t know ibogaïne) during Iboga’s therapy it is often seeing
that the person has no more needs. About a week at least. Then the taste
becomes
very selective. Here we say that no animals eat everything. It may occur
that the given Iboga is too much comparatively to feelings and sensitivity
of the person.

I do regret that during ibogaine’s therapy the ritual and the and the
specific analysis of the person is forgotten. Each one is unique !!! Each
master too and all this does not fit with the global approach of currently
used prescrition in western medicine.

This is the quite feeling of all true gabonese’s masters.

Truely faithfully yours.
Tatayo and Disumba

Disumba,

It is so good to have you present yourself.  Concerning your statement:

I do regret that during ibogaine’s therapy the ritual and the and the
specific analysis of the person is forgotten. Each one is unique !!! Each
master too and all this does not fit with the global approach of currently
used prescrition in western medicine.

In my opinion the best western doctors act as do the gabonese masters you
describe by recognizing each person as unique and also that the doctors in the
west are themselves unique.  That is the reason there are some very good doctors
and some that should not be practicing medicine or only doing so at risk to
their patients.

If there is anything I can do for you please let me know.  I have added your
web page with both french and english links to the Ibogaine Dossier links page
http://www.ibogaine.org/links.html in the Bwiti section but that is very
little.

One of my desires since becoming acquainted with iboga is that africans would
speak for themselves rather than by way of europeans.  Thank you for that.

With warmest regards,

Howard

Howard S. Lotsof
President
Dora Weiner Foundation
POB 10032
Staten Island, NY 10301-0032
USA
dir tel, 1 718 442-2754
dir fax, 1 718 442-1957
email, dwf123@earthlink.net
http://www.doraweiner.org

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From: Nik <goosebumpz2002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] So im back
Date: June 14, 2004 at 2:20:41 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This is Nick i was desperatly trying to get some help with methadone withdrawl . Well heres were im at i have not touched an opiate in 86 days 86 long days. I dont miss it that much i was on methadone for a second time for  2 and a half years 120mgs well i did the initail detox with suboxone wich is quite amazing itself but that was only for a week then cut off this was in a drug treatment place but man the withdrawl was scary ridiculus and very painful to the mind body and soul and i do feel  a huge sence of accomplishment  by gettin through it basically cold turkey cuz the real methadone withdrawl dont start for a week after last dose i seriously almost offed myself but i am here and i can type on a computer wich is crazy i  was going through intese withdrawl for like 30 days it was ridiculus. Man i have heard so mu8ch about iboga. hcl. so who here has detoxed from methadone then did a iboga quest?. how can it help me  reallyy ? talk to me for real use my personal emial.  so whats the place up in bc like how much money will it take see i am in michigan but i might be traveling to northern cali not to far from reno and it probably aint that hard to get up to b.c aft er that but you know i have a great many fears i have talked to one person who has done it ibo that is and it sounded like a train wreck he was sshitting himself and trowing up and was spun real hard but he said in the weirdest way it helped him  so i am just blabbering but i feal that i owe it to myself now that i have come this far i should do anything to stop my drug use and the next step is iboga but it will i hope not be just  a fleeting dream peace love and all the goodness your heart can endure  Nick! from mi

i come to you wisened peoples for help…

recently, i’ve been having particularly bad post-withdrawal withdrawal…
there’s probably a better word for it, but what i mean is that i’ve been
of junk for something like 5 and a half years, and sometimes i still have
withdrawal symptoms. the past few days have been especially bad, maybe
because i had a dream about doing heroin a few nights ago. anyway, i was
wondering if anyone might have suggestions of how to deal with it.

currently i’m adhering to a strict regimen of cannabis and california
poppy. they help some, particularly the pot, but i’d be very interested to
hear how other people deal with it.

thanks very much

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Do you Yahoo!?
Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] link
Date: June 14, 2004 at 2:01:27 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.ibogainetreatment.com/e-index.html

Interesting link that some of you may not have seen. It even has a sample of Bwiti music.
I found it after looking at Ethnogarden Botanicals. Yes, their prices are very expensive!

Callie

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: [ibogaine] Amazing Grace
Date: June 14, 2004 at 1:37:03 PM EDT
To: “Ibogaine Mindvox” <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Amazing Grace, a book by Lee Albert, charting his 33 month journey with
iboga is to be published at www.authorhouse.com next month. See company site
and www.myeboga.com for details.

Nick

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From: Brooke Burgess <brooke@brokensaints.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] post-withdrawal withdrawal..
Date: June 13, 2004 at 4:40:43 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Nick

I used the ethnogarden stuff…definitely a weak trip.

Luckily, I had a pleasant surprise a few weeks later with a mushroom
experience that was fairly life-altering.  Definitely compensated.

Hope you’re well – thanks again for the advice and support.

Brooke

—–Original Message—–
From: Nick Sandberg [mailto:nick227@tiscali.co.uk]
Sent: June 13, 2004 12:19 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] post-withdrawal withdrawal..

There have been reports of suspect “whole root” stuff being sold  recently.
I can’t remember if it was Maya, Ethnoplanet or another company. There’s a
list of handlers lower down the page at www.ibogaine.co.uk/options.htm and
I’d be inclined to go for Douala-based AfricaPhyto. They certainly come
across as reputable. My feeling is many of the European or N. American
handlers may have older stuff which is why the price is so reasonable. Just
a feeling.

Perhaps someone with access to mindvox archives could remind me which iboga
root was not so good a month or two ago. I think a guy called Brooke used
it.

all the best

Nick

—– Original Message —–
From: “AG” <adamg@013.net.il>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2004 6:33 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] post-withdrawal withdrawal..

Jon,

They seem to be selling ‘iboga root powder’, which could mean the entire
root and not the rootbark… for 700euros you can get a kilo of rootbark
from
Cameroon and as I recall, the entire root goes for less than half that
price…
in other words, if this is not powderized ‘bark’, it’s pretty much
worthless
as
you would have to use a hell of a lot more (probably would have to do an
extract)
while paying much more than it is worth ..

AG

—– Original Message —–
From: “jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2004 5:24 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] post-withdrawal withdrawal..

So, in my quest to find some iboga product I can afford, I also see that
Maya Ethnobotonicals has very reasonably priced root bark.

Does any one have any experience with that company?

thanx as always,

jon

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From: D <disumba@yahoo.fr>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] question4Dr’s.or.knowledgable
Date: June 12, 2004 at 7:37:21 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Disumba,

Setting aside the issue that we may have directed an iboga related
question
to the wrong party, are you suggesting we contact Hugues Poitevin – reborn
(trough

Iboga) Obiang Ndongo alias Tatayo from Natural/cultural EBANDO NGO

web site : www.f-i-a.org/ebando to determine if the symptoms Jason is
reporting are known to be iboga induced?  Thanks.  Actually, I have had
some contact
with Tatayo and that does like a good idea.

Howard

Dear Howard,
I did answer through Disumba’s mail but i’m Hugues Poitevin/Tatayo and i’m
the one you know. First of all seeing a classical doc is right. According to
what Howard wrote.

Imho, (i don’t know ibogaïne) during Iboga’s therapy it is often seeing that
the person has no more needs. About a week at least. Then the taste becomes
very selective. Here we say that no animals eat everything. It may occur
that the given Iboga is too much comparatively to feelings and sensitivity
of the person.
I do regret that during ibogaine’s therapy the ritual and the and the
specific analysis of the person is forgotten. Each one is unique !!! Each
master too and all this does not fit with the global approach of currently
used prescrition in western medicine.
This is the quite feeling of all true gabonese’s masters.

Truely faithfully yours.
Tatayo and Disumba.

For Marko who is asking about Iboga’s slowers. There are many local plants
according to symptoms.
We feel allowed to tell you that papaw is the right fruit to slow Iboga
down.

T&D

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] post-withdrawal withdrawal..
Date: June 14, 2004 at 9:55:12 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: “marcus israel” <vesch69@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2004 7:48 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] post-withdrawal withdrawal..

Hello Adam,
please w/b and allow me to learn of the
“ibo-dog”s (?) you detailed in your response
(re:ibogaine-post withdrawl-withdrawl)
I am interested
Marcus L. Israel
— AG <adamg@013.net.il> wrote:

I think what Adam means is that you can put iboga rootbark in sausage
casings and swallow it. It’s quite good like this, I’ve tried it once.
What’s good is that you don’t have to taste it and you don’t have to spend
hours putting itty bits of it in capsules.

Nick

My mistake…. Brooke did buy from ethnogarden, and
that’s the company/site
I meant was neither cheap nor reliable… I tried
getting some dealer
pricing from them, seeing as I had a bunch of people
ready for lift-off
and their pricing was outrageous… I don’t know of
anyone, including
a friggin’ millionaire from BC who’s gonna order
250gms of HCl to get the
price
to come down from $333 a gram to $300 (yeah, that’s
the discount these
guys are thinkin’ up– here’s me hopin’ they’re
still holding their
breathe )

And Brooke bought 50gms and that stuff did not do
the job, so you gotta
be thinkin’ 100gms, imo, regardless of the source
you end up buying from…

BTW, Seeing as someone on this list has NOT come
forth and mentioned
how pleasantly palatable my ibo-dogs® are..ahem… I
will yet again mention
that using narrow ‘sausage-casings’ to make
loose/flacid ibo-dogs is the
best way to get a serious quantity of iboga down the
chute…

…errr… but get your watcher to freshen up on his
heimlich maneuver,
just to be on the safe side…

bon appetite,
AG

—– Original Message —–
From: “jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>

Oh wait a minute…  Brooke ordered from
EthnoPLANET?

I was talking about Ethnogarden, a Canadian
company. Ethnoplanet appears
to be a Danish company, which doesn’t help me, as
I can’t drive to Denmark
=)

So yeah, I’m looking for experiences with
ethnoGARDEN’s material, not
ethnoplanet.

sorry for the confusion,

jon

Adam wrote:

Nick et al,

I recall Brooke from BC and he bought his
rootbark from ethnoplanet and
they
are not cheap by any account nor is their stuff
apparently
trustworthy…>

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Friends.  Fun.  Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger.
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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] post-withdrawal withdrawal..
Date: June 14, 2004 at 9:51:59 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Jon,

OK, so it was EthnoGARDEN who sold the suspect rootbark. I just mailed them
the other day and asked if they had anything to say about it. No reply yet.
BTW, EthnoPLANET stopped selling iboga when it was made illegal in Denmark.
Basically, how it is is that it seems it’s relatively straightforward to get
hold of good quality ibogaine HCl, the first source I have listed has always
been reliable, as far as I’m aware. But the rootbark is always a bit harder.
I’m hoping to test some of that from AfricaPhyto very soon so maybe these
guys will prove to be reliable.

all the best

Nick

—– Original Message —–
From: “jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2004 5:02 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] post-withdrawal withdrawal..

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

Nick et al,

I recall Brooke from BC and he bought his rootbark from ethnoplanet and
they
are not cheap by any account nor is their stuff apparently
trustworthy…

Oh wait a minute…  Brooke ordered from EthnoPLANET?

I was talking about Ethnogarden, a Canadian company. Ethnoplanet appears
to be a Danish company, which doesn’t help me, as I can’t drive to Denmark
=)

So yeah, I’m looking for experiences with ethnoGARDEN’s material, not
ethnoplanet.

sorry for the confusion,

jon

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From: <rforester@rogers.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Remove me from your mailing list,please.
Date: June 14, 2004 at 8:35:18 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello,i would like to be removed from your mailing list as i have gotten several messages with attatchments containing viruses,i had wanted information about ibogaine but now i am at the point where i would like to be permenantly removed from your mailing list all togather,thanks ,Nancie Belajac

1

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Gabon ahoy
Date: June 14, 2004 at 6:49:14 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Carla,                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   I’m sorry to see that you have let all of this get to you. I’m very new to this list so I have not lost my positive outlook. Not yet anyway.                                                                                         When I first got on this list my first post was about how everyone seemed to be rich junkies having fun tripping balls out on Ibogaine, never talking about how they had to screw friends or give blowjobs or what ever to keep a habit going. I complained about shit I didn’t know about and you put me in my place. I needed that to maybe put some of this in percpective. I took your advice and filled out paper work, had EKGs done and called everone that I could get a hold of to try and get some treatment. I even sent money that I got together ( it really didn’t taste that bad although I felt like gagging all the time!)LOL. How do people get used to that? (I hope you are smiling at least when you read this). Any way, I went to a lot of AA meetings to be able to quit drinking for ten years and a lot of the time I would sit there feeling exactly how you described yourself in that last post. Every meeting I would hear someone say that there is no wrong way to do the right thing. I wanted to get up and scream …” You self rightous fucks have no clue on how to do anything but talk behind peoples back and start clicks and O Yea, you are sober aren’t you?” At that point all I could do was get