Ibogaine List Archives – 2003-01

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Join Emergency Protests at U.S. Embassies Wednesday re: Ed Rosenthal
Date: January 31, 2003 at 11:00:47 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

do you know when this protest will take place in london, i would like to go

pete

Check with Shane Collins, 208-671-5936

Dana/cnw

From: “Alison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Join Emergency Protests at U.S. Embassies Wednesday re: EdRosenthal
Date: January 31, 2003 at 4:58:40 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

If you are not near a capital or a place of protest, is there an e-mail or fax contact to register support.  Am not sure if there is anything happening in New Zealand but am way too far away to be able to afford to go to our capital, Wellingon.  I would still like to add support so would be good to know if there are other avenues available.  Thanks Allison
—–Original Message—–
From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
To: MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca>
Cc: Dana Larsen <muggles2@cannabisculture.com>; rmelamed@uccs.edu <rmelamed@uccs.edu>; SCMJMarch@yahoogroups.com <SCMJMarch@yahoogroups.com>; clear@harmreduction.org <clear@harmreduction.org>; Bonnie <rabbit@cownow.com>; mgreer@mapinc.org <mgreer@mapinc.org>; pieman@pieman.org <pieman@pieman.org>; ccguide.org.uk <alun@ccguide.org.uk>; ajw <ajw@nyc.rr.com>; mayday@yahoogroups.com <mayday@yahoogroups.com>; Paul Krassner <pkrassner@earthlink.net>; StewA@aol.com <StewA@aol.com>; ibogaine@mindvox.com <ibogaine@mindvox.com>; B.T. Moore <btm42@hotmail.com>; Brian Downing Quig <quig@dcia.com>; preston peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>; David Crockett Williams <gear2000@lightspeed.net>; Gregory Lake <lakeg@hotmail.com>; has.cornelissen@planet.nl <has.cornelissen@planet.nl>; anadi2000@earthlink.net <anadi2000@earthlink.net>; Nicholas Merrill <nick@mojo.calyx.net>; Mitchell Halberstadt <mitch-h@mindspring.com>; Donald Grove <grove@harmreduction.org>; Bob Melamede <rmelamed@uccs.edu>; lesliecagan@igc.org <lesliecagan@igc.org>; Chris Conrad <chris@chrisconrad.com>; narda@lifefood.com <narda@lifefood.com>; damnrobrob@yahoo.com <damnrobrob@yahoo.com>; Jay Blotcher <jblotcher@hvc.rr.com>; crmoynihan@yahoo.com <crmoynihan@yahoo.com>; BrennerL@aol.com <BrennerL@aol.com>; Andrew Grice <kingfelix@mediaone.net>; mruppert@copvcia.com <mruppert@copvcia.com>; DogBreath100@aol.com <DogBreath100@aol.com>; saltcom@aol.com <saltcom@aol.com>; rumsey@newsday.com <rumsey@newsday.com>; ekwa@msn.com <ekwa@msn.com>; flynn@nytimes.com <flynn@nytimes.com>; foundation@norml.org <foundation@norml.org>; Sean.Sweeneynyc@verizon.net <Sean.Sweeneynyc@verizon.net>; Lconaway@villagevoice.com <Lconaway@villagevoice.com>; charlie kaplan <crowes_98@yahoo.com>; psmith@drcnet.org <psmith@drcnet.org>; dguard@drcnet.org <dguard@drcnet.org>; deanl1@earthlink.net <deanl1@earthlink.net>; Sarah Ferguson <sferg@interport.net>; dmcvay@csdp.org <dmcvay@csdp.org>; cowan@marijuananews.com <cowan@marijuananews.com>; smokinjoe@weeklydig.com <smokinjoe@weeklydig.com>; don@hempery.com <don@hempery.com>; anita@bodyshop.co.uk <anita@bodyshop.co.uk>; danviets@justice.com <danviets@justice.com>; cohenj@hrw.org <cohenj@hrw.org>; jim sutherland <jim@arclightning.com>; danaleecohen@aol.com <danaleecohen@aol.com>
Date: Friday, 31 January 2003 08:24
Subject: [ibogaine] Join Emergency Protests at U.S. Embassies Wednesday re: EdRosenthal

Free Ed Rosenthal Protests Planned Wednesday at U.S. embassies in London, Paris, Berlin, Oslo, Rome and other World Capitols…Please join!

Ed Rosenthal–author of the Marijuana Growers Guide–is about to be convicted in the US District Court in Oakland, Ca. on charges of “conspiracy”, “cultivation” and “manufacturing” medical marijuana. The illegal Bush junta which stole the 2000 election because Clinton was not “tough enough on drugs” alleges that Ed, one of the founders of the modern marijuana movement, is some kind of drug kingpin.

The trial began with the U.S. Judge, Breyer, dismissing more than 2/3 of the jurors because of support for Prop. 215, which made medical marijuana legal in California. After picking a completely unrepresentative jury, the Judge ruled that no “medical marijuana defense” would would be allowed. In fact, Rosenthal was deputized by the city of Oakland so that dispensation of medical marijuana  would be covered under the same legal immunity as the narcs. The Judge ruled that Congressional intent (to ban cannabis absolutely) trumped the plain language of the statute that immunizes government agents.

Defense attorneys had sought to force Judge Breyer to allow them the chance to present evidence that would reveal that at least one DEA supervising agent had said, during the Clinton administration, that the federal government would not pursue prosecutions in areas where the local governments were allowing medical distribution. Such testimony would indicate that Mr. Rosenthal had been the victim of a form of entrapment, so the Judge won’t allow it. Although Judge Breyer has been forced to allow some testimony by a member of the Oakland City Council that Ed was not trying to conceal his activities, the case is expected to go to the jury Friday without Ed being able to mount an effective defense.

Last February 12 the Bush clique led by Attorney General John Ashcroft arrested Ed in an attempt to silence the cause of medical marijuana which saves the lives of many. Therefore the time has come to confront the US government’s attempt to jail Ed for the crime of saving lives by mounting picket lines at U.S. Embassies around the world. 50 to 100 protestors are expected at several of the embassies. The Paris Global Cannabis Coordinator suggested Wednesday as the most convenient day when we can expect to have a verdict in Ed’s case.

Dana Beal/cures not wars/Global Cannabis March/212-677-7180

From: dr cheese <onthecheese@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Join Emergency Protests at U.S. Embassies Wednesday re: Ed Rosenthal
Date: January 31, 2003 at 12:48:48 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

do you know when this protest will take place in london, i would like to go

pete

Original message attached.

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Drug Czar Super Bowl Ad Features Anti-Abortion Subtext
Date: January 30, 2003 at 5:51:31 PM EST
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Cc: “efficacy” <efficacy@email.msn.com>, <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, “Drug Policy Forum Tri-State [DE, NJ, PA]” <liberty_action@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi all,
I’m happy to let you know that DrugWar.com has published another
original article by Daniel Forbes, this one about the “other” message in one
of the Super Bowl anti-pot ads. Please feel free to pass this email and link
on.

http://www.drugwar.com/forbesantiabortion.shtm

Drug Czar Super Bowl Ad Features Anti-Abortion Subtext
By Daniel Forbes-
for DrugWar.com
(image)
Outcome dictated by ONDCP?
January 30, 2003
No, the White House anti-drug ads don’t work, the latest, stealth report
from the federal government indicates. Commissioned by the Office of
National Drug Control Policy and conducted under the auspices of the
National Institute on Drug Abuse, it states: “There is no evidence yet
consistent with a desirable effect of the [Media] Campaign on youth.” Though
this semi-annual report builds on the poor results documented previously,
the taxpayer-funded ads – despite their demonstrated inability to keep kids
from drugs – do serve any number of purposes. One new use for the campaign
made its debut during the year’s high-profile advertising showcase, Sunday’s
Super Bowl.
As Joseph R. Giganti, Director of Media and Government Relations at the
American Life League stated after reviewing the new anti-marijuana ad –
entitled “Pregnancy” – on ONDCP’s website, “Without question, there is a
very strong but subtle pro-life statement presented in this commercial.”
snip-
Read Article at above URL
Peace,
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor at Large High Times mag/.com
“Prohibition creates an irresistibly lucrative
opportunity for entrepreneurs willing to operate
in illicit business. It is the policy
of idealists who cannot appreciate that the use
of drugs often reflects other sets of human
ideals: human perfectibility, the yearning
for a perfect moment, the peace that comes
from oblivion.” Richard Davenport-Hines

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Join Emergency Protests at U.S. Embassies Wednesday re: Ed Rosenthal
Date: January 30, 2003 at 2:18:15 PM EST
To: MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca>
Cc: Dana Larsen <muggles2@cannabisculture.com>, rmelamed@uccs.edu, SCMJMarch@yahoogroups.com, clear@harmreduction.org, Bonnie <rabbit@cownow.com>, mgreer@mapinc.org, pieman@pieman.org, “ccguide.org.uk” <alun@ccguide.org.uk>, ajw <ajw@nyc.rr.com>, mayday@yahoogroups.com, Paul Krassner <pkrassner@earthlink.net>, StewA@aol.com, ibogaine@mindvox.com, “B.T. Moore” <btm42@hotmail.com>, “Brian Downing Quig” <quig@dcia.com>, “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>, “David Crockett Williams” <gear2000@lightspeed.net>, “Gregory Lake” <lakeg@hotmail.com>, has.cornelissen@planet.nl, anadi2000@earthlink.net, Nicholas Merrill <nick@mojo.calyx.net>, Mitchell Halberstadt <mitch-h@mindspring.com>, “Donald Grove” <grove@harmreduction.org>, Bob Melamede <rmelamed@uccs.edu>, lesliecagan@igc.org, Chris Conrad <chris@chrisconrad.com>, narda@lifefood.com, damnrobrob@yahoo.com, Jay Blotcher <jblotcher@hvc.rr.com>, crmoynihan@yahoo.com, BrennerL@aol.com, “Andrew Grice” <kingfelix@mediaone.net>, mruppert@copvcia.com, DogBreath100@aol.com, saltcom@aol.com, rumsey@newsday.com, ekwa@msn.com, flynn@nytimes.com, foundation@norml.org, Sean.Sweeneynyc@verizon.net, Lconaway@villagevoice.com, charlie kaplan <crowes_98@yahoo.com>, psmith@drcnet.org, dguard@drcnet.org, deanl1@earthlink.net, Sarah Ferguson <sferg@interport.net>, dmcvay@csdp.org, cowan@marijuananews.com, smokinjoe@weeklydig.com, don@hempery.com, anita@bodyshop.co.uk, danviets@justice.com, cohenj@hrw.org, “jim sutherland” <jim@arclightning.com>, danaleecohen@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Free Ed Rosenthal Protests Planned Wednesday at U.S. embassies in London, Paris, Berlin, Oslo, Rome and other World Capitols…Please join!

Ed Rosenthal–author of the Marijuana Growers Guide–is about to be convicted in the US District Court in Oakland, Ca. on charges of “conspiracy”, “cultivation” and “manufacturing” medical marijuana. The illegal Bush junta which stole the 2000 election because Clinton was not “tough enough on drugs” alleges that Ed, one of the founders of the modern marijuana movement, is some kind of drug kingpin.

The trial began with the U.S. Judge, Breyer, dismissing more than 2/3 of the jurors because of support for Prop. 215, which made medical marijuana legal in California. After picking a completely unrepresentative jury, the Judge ruled that no “medical marijuana defense” would would be allowed. In fact, Rosenthal was deputized by the city of Oakland so that dispensation of medical marijuana  would be covered under the same legal immunity as the narcs. The Judge ruled that Congressional intent (to ban cannabis absolutely) trumped the plain language of the statute that immunizes government agents.

Defense attorneys had sought to force Judge Breyer to allow them the chance to present evidence that would reveal that at least one DEA supervising agent had said, during the Clinton administration, that the federal government would not pursue prosecutions in areas where the local governments were allowing medical distribution. Such testimony would indicate that Mr. Rosenthal had been the victim of a form of entrapment, so the Judge won’t allow it. Although Judge Breyer has been forced to allow some testimony by a member of the Oakland City Council that Ed was not trying to conceal his activities, the case is expected to go to the jury Friday without Ed being able to mount an effective defense.

Last February 12 the Bush clique led by Attorney General John Ashcroft arrested Ed in an attempt to silence the cause of medical marijuana which saves the lives of many. Therefore the time has come to confront the US government’s attempt to jail Ed for the crime of saving lives by mounting picket lines at U.S. Embassies around the world. 50 to 100 protestors are expected at several of the embassies. The Paris Global Cannabis Coordinator suggested Wednesday as the most convenient day when we can expect to have a verdict in Ed’s case.

Dana Beal/cures not wars/Global Cannabis March/212-677-7180

From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] spread the word, take action [ibogaine? what about war?]
Date: January 29, 2003 at 12:36:38 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

small PDF attached. download it. pass it on. print it out. take action. Free
the Pygmies.

www.notinourname.net
www.votenowar.org
www.truemajority.com

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Alienated State of America
Date: January 28, 2003 at 3:46:55 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The Alienated State of America: A Hateful Divide
************************************************

by Bryan Craeg Evans
Kilauea, HAWAI’I
Jan. 28, 2003 (IDA)
http://mutanex.com/alienated

“If only , if only, nuclear war was just another kind of war. If only it was
about the usual things– nations and territories, gods and histories. If only
those of us who dread it are just worthless moral cowards who are not prepared
to die in defense of our beliefs. If only nuclear war was the kind of war in
which countries battle countries and men battle men. But it isn’t. If there is
a nuclear war, our foe will not be China or America or even each other. Our foe
will be the Earth herself. The very elements– the sky, the air, the land, the
wind and water– will turn against us.”

— Arundhati Roy “The End of Imagination”

“In refusing to outlaw the bomb while having the monopoly of it, this country
suffers in another respect, in that it fails to return publicly to the ethical
standards of warfare formally accepted previous to the last war. It should not
be forgotten that the atomic bomb was made in this country as a preventive
measure; it was to head off its use by the Germans, if they discovered it. The
bombing of civilian centers was initiated by the Germans and adopted by the
Japanese. To it the Allies responded in kind– as it turned out, with greater
effectiveness– and were morally justified in doing so. But now, without any
provocation, and without the justification of reprisal or retaliation, a
refusal to outlaw the use of the bomb save in reprisal is making a political
purpose of its possession. This is hardly pardonable.”

— Dr. Albert Einstein “Atomic War or Peace”

Help! We’ve Been Hijacked by Extremists!

Here at the dawn of a new millennium, every person in America shares a fate
with every other person in the world: we have been colonized by a tight-knit
web of elitists bent on military superiority, in a struggle over dwindling
resources, with a global agenda. We’ve been hijacked by a militaristic cabal of
economic pirates and their henchmen, armed with high-tech weapons and secret
technologies, under the guise of “Security,” backed by a toothless media and
their advertisers. We’re being held hostage by this arms-dealing coup détat,
threatened daily with nuclear warfare, germ injections, unreasonable search and
seizure, imprisonment, and various other violations of human rights.

Environmental, humanitarian, reproductive and civil rights struggles which took
decades to reach a hopeful outlook have been beaten down in a matter of months
by this small group of wealthy extremists, many of whom are convicted felons.
They make no apologies for imposing their scandalous and abusive values on our
society, endangering all of civilization. In fact they are revelling in their
degradation of our economy and justice system like true tyrants. They have
hoisted their skull-and-bones flag over the White House and are battering at
the doors of the United Nations, preparing to dismantle every international
treaty made in the past 400 years, for this is their last alternative to being
held accountable for a century of war crimes and genocidal conspiracies which
now plague the world, in the form of drugs, disease, chemical poisons, and mass
graves.

Is there any American with a conscience who will deny what I am saying about
this Bush regime? The CIA headquarters bearing his name, Bush the uber-Bubba,
born with a silver spoon up his nose, waving the nuclear buttons around like a
personal shotgun? Surrounded by corporate criminals and far-right extremists
loyal to elite organizations, demanding the world fall in line behind their
agenda to plunder the remaining resources of the world they didn’t squeeze out
in the last century, and daring any who resist to challenge their superior
military forces. The Bush-CIA takeover of the United States of America stands
head-and-shoulders above the legacy of Caesar as the most arrogant and
dangerous military coup in history.

Surely you’ve heard the many recent references to Hitler and the Third Reich’s
burning of the Reichtag in relation to the Bush agenda? I would update these
references with an even more alarming perspective: the ideology, criminality,
and ruthlessness of the far-right in America make the Third Reich seem like
grade school. The U.S. military machine and their National Security agencies
dwarf anything the Germans ever had, even at the height of their power. Now
Bush is threatening to use preemptive nuclear strikes, against underdeveloped
nations, without any regulation or remorse. Uber-Bubba Bush poses the greatest
threat to global security in human history, in the name of plunder and power.

“But let us pause to give credit where it’s due. Whom must we thank for all
this? The Men who made it happen. The Masters of the Universe. Ladies and
Gentlemen, the United States of America! Come on up here, folks, stand up and
take a bow.Thank you for showing us the way. Thank you for altering the very
meaning of life. From now on it is not dying we must fear, but living.

It is such supreme folly to believe that nuclear weapons are deadly only if
they’re used. The fact that they exist at all, their very presence in our
lives,
will wreak more havoc than we can begin to fathom. Nuclear weapons pervade our
thinking. They are the ultimate colonizer. Whiter than any white man that ever
lived. The very heart of whiteness.”

— Arundhati Roy “The End of Imagination”

“But could not our situation be compared to one of a menacing epidemic? People
are unable to view this situation in its true light, for their eyes are blinded
by passion. General fear and anxiety create hatred and aggressiveness. The
adaptation to warlike aims and activities has corrupted the mentality of man;
as a result, intelligent, objective and humane thinking has hardly any effect
and is even suspected and persecuted as unpatriotic.”

— Dr. Albert Einstein “The Menace of Mass Destruction”

Mass Psychosis & the Military Mentality

The conditioning of American society to the acceptance of tyranny has been
slowly increased over the past half-century, since the formation of the CIA/NSA
National Security state. The advent of television opened a channel of mass
manipulation never before available to political ideologues. The human mind
became the brave new frontier, ripe for colonization.

The two most influential tools for manipulating large groups of people,
appealing to the lowest common denominators of society, are fear and greed. The
American miracle of marketing is the ability to appeal to the most base
instincts of humanity while appearing to represent the common good. We can
terrorize the world while we claim to be defending their “freedom.” Hell, we
will even convince the underprivileged that the privileged deserve all their
good fortune, even as we plunder their backyards and force their children to
pledge allegiance to our dollar!

How do we enforce fear on the masses while making it “sexy?” By marketing
militarism as the growth industry of the future, making even the most graphic
violence an entertainment form. Even if the sexy older actor is asking the CIA
recruit if he’d like to kill people, for no good reason, we can market it as a
kind of perverted empowerment, devoid of ethics. Hell, we can even make police
torture and abuse into award-winning shows, with the miracle of television
penetrating the most intimate spaces of the family home. In this way, we can
make patriotic impulses immediate and disconnected from history, without the
nasty habit of conscience.

Never before in the history of humankind has there existed such influence over
mass consciousness, and into this arena arose the Bush family, backed by their
Nazi financiers, CIA drug-dealers and assassins, corporate boards of
petrochemical and pharmaceutical industries, and of course weapons makers, all
reaping greater bounty from the misfortunes of mankind than in any era of
exploitation ever before, billions becoming trillions, damn the debt.

Meanwhile, Americans have been conditioned like the proverbial frog in hot
water against questioning the authority of the White House, never mind that the
President is supposed to serve the people and our best interests. Conspiracy?
How dare any American claim conspiracy– we know those people should be
ridiculed, and maybe locked up! In fact, since the terrible advent of the
terrorist, Americans have been conditioned to avoid the news in general, and
take pride in their ignorance. After all, Big Brother Bush and his buddies are
in charge of our Security now!

“The only good thing about nuclear war is that it is the single most
egalitarian idea that man has ever had. On the day of reckoning, you will not
be asked to present your credentials. The devastation will be indiscriminate.
The bomb isn’t in your backyard. It’s in your body. And mine. Nobody, no
nation, no government, no man, no god, has a right to put it there. We’re
radioactive already, and the war hasn’t even begun. So stand up and say
something. Never mind if it’s been said before. Speak up on your own behalf.
Take it very personally.”

— Arundhati Roy “The End of Imagination”

“The tendencies we have mentioned are something new for America. They arose
when, under the influence of the two World Wars and the consequent
concentration of all forces on a military goal, a predominantly military
mentality developed, which with the almost sudden victory became even more
accentuated. The characteristic feature of this mentality is that people place
the importance of what Bertrand Russell so tellingly terms ‘naked power’ far
above all other factors which affect the relations between peoples. The
Germans, misled by Bismarck’s success in particular, underwent just such a
transformation of their mentality– in consequence of which they were entirely
ruined in less than a hundred years.”

— Dr. Albert Einstein “The Military Mentality”

Fascism for Idiots: An American Nightmare

Since the appointment of Bush Jr. to terrorize and plunder our children’s
future, hate has become fashionable in America, along with terror. Never mind
that a thorough investigation of the circumstances leading up to and
surrounding the September 11 attacks has yet to take place, having been blocked
by the Bush White House at every avenue, along with the Enron and Halliburton
scandals. Instead, the country is being herded onward toward global warfare,
mobilizing millions of our men and women into harm’s way and prodding every
underdeveloped region of the world in search of places to test our latest
future-weapons. America has become a steroid-choked reality show costing
billions of dollars a day, arming every available space of the planet against
anyone who may resist the corporate demand to feed our gluttonous appetites.

Even when millions of intelligent and beautiful people rise up in protest, in
the largest coordinated mass demonstrations in history, filling city centers
around the world, the corporate media downplay the opposition, reporting
hundreds of thousands as tens of thousands, taking tiny soundbites of historic
speeches, totally ignoring former U.S. Attorney General Ramsey Clarke’s motion
for impeachment of the Bush regime. For those paying attention, those on the
front lines, those up against the police barricades, it is obvious the media in
America have been bought out, blackmailed, and disarmed, except for a few
outposts on the internet.

Hate is in high fashion in America. In every speech Bush directs his brute
aggression against evil enemies who are just asking to be annihilated. The
flag-waving patriots on the street corners echo their approval, casting slurs
and slander and possibly even rocks, and feel justified in doing so, to defend
American superiority. How dare any American question our leaders in this time
of peril? Yet if these thoughtless patriots would pursue the issues and dangers
surrounding us, they might question who is putting their children in the
greatest peril? Who goaded the terrorists and allowed the 9-11 attacks to go
forward? Who is alienating the world against us, insulting even our closest
allies, and challenging the integrity of the United Nations? Who is threatening
to launch a nuclear war, who is willing to violate international treaties and
destabilize the entire Mideast? Who is dismantling every environmental
protection we’ve gained over the past century, and allowing corporations to
make huge profits at the expense of the common people? A small group of wealthy
elitists is who, represented by the ideologues in the Bush 43 regime. Not
democratically elected, but appointed by a right-wing conspiracy aligned with
criminals and fascists.

Perhaps most unforgivable in the current mob mentality being thrust on America
is the abandonment of its veterans. While the men and women who were mobilized
for Bush 41’s Gulf War are suffering from results of experimental vaccines,
uranium shell exposure, and psychological trauma, the media pretend their cases
have no bearing on the current mobilization in the Gulf. Even as hundreds of
soldiers and Marines are being locked up in the brig for refusing to take the
next generation of experimental vaccines, the media ignores their plight,
meanwhile advertising Bush’s anthrax vaccine program. And who would know that
Vietnam veterans still exist, that they are the most outspoken against the use
of war as justification to plunder oil, that more of them have commited suicide
than actually died in the field? Veterans of the CIA, including Generals and
Colonels, are ignored as they testify that the Bush crime family is the
“Immaculate Deception,” their involvement in drug-running, assassination, bank
fraud, and insider trading making the Sopranos seem like the Simpsons.

Who is the greatest danger to America and the world? Surely the finger must be
pointed at the corporate masters of the U.S. media, who are actually
multinational conglomerates run by the ultra-wealthy. Their blinding and
gagging of the people’s right to know, the true investigation of the corruption
that endangers the very fate of the world, must be faulted as the most grave
breakdown of democracy in America. For a people who are kept intentionally
ignorant while being force-fed propaganda and lies, being led down a
skull-and-bones-strewn path toward Armageddon by a pack of corporate criminals,
is not free, but chained by their most base instincts. The media in America
must be held accountable for failing to expose the true intentions and
associations of the Bush 43 regime, and for their spinelessly selling-out in
every sense of that term.

Have we all been transformed into idiots now? The masters tell the slaves to
look away toward the oilfields, not to question the wrinkled wizards behind the
curtains. The only issue we are now allowed to focus on is Iraq and Saddam
Hussein. Have a question about the Bush-Bin Laden connection? The Cheney-Enron
conferences? The new pipeline through Afghanistan? The warfront in Columbia?
That doesn’t matter, because Saddam must be dealt with, Bush says so! How about
the ailing economy, the outbreak of new contagious diseases, the thousands of
people being held in prison without charges? No time for that now, Bush says
Saddam must be bombed into submission! The launching of a war in space, the
drilling for oil in the Arctic, the campaign for Bush’s impeachment? Sorry,
can’t think about that today, we have a war scheduled in Iraq!

“Exposing Western Hypocrisy– how much more exposed can it be? What decent
human being on Earth harbors any illusions about it? These are people whose
histories are spongy with the blood of others. Colonialism, apartheid, slavery,
ethnic cleansing, germ warfare, chemical weapons– they virtually invented it
all. They have plundered nations, snuffed out civilizations, exterminated
entire populations. They stand on the world’s stage stark naked but entirely
unembarrassed, because they know that they have more money, more food and
bigger bombs than anybody else. They know they can wipe us out in the course of
an ordinary working day. Personally, I’d say it’s more arrogance than
hypocrisy.”

— Arundhati Roy “The End of Imagination”

“In our time the military mentality is still more dangerous than formerly
because the offensive weapons have become much more powerful than the defensive
ones. Therefore, it leads, by necessity, to preventive war. The general
insecurity that goes hand in hand with this results in the sacrifice of the
citizen’s civil rights to the supposed welfare of the state. Political
witch-hunting, controls of all sorts (e.g., control of teaching and research,
of the press, and so forth) appear inevitable, and for this reason do not
encounter that popular resistance, which, were it not for the military
mentality, would provide protection. A reappraisal of all values gradually
takes place insofar as everything that does not clearly serve the utopian ends
is regarded and treated as inferior.”

— Dr. Albert Einstein “The Military Mentality”

Resistance is Fertile! Ghosts of Millions Lift Us Up!

If the democratic integrity of America has been corrupted to an extent where it
no longer functions, while a military coup runs rampant threatening the use of
nuclear weapons, where then is the hope to rescue the American Dream?
Ironically enough, the best aspects of democracy, justice and freedom are
rising up around the world, to remind Americans what they use to represent. A
land of opportunity and free expression, a land of immigrants whose dreams
outweigh their pockets, a nation where civil rights and diversity are
celebrated and triumph. Activists from even the most oppressed nations of the
world are showing us how America has been hijacked by the worst colonial
elements of our society, an elitist, ultraright group of revolutionaries with a
globalist agenda.

The internet has been our saving grace, allowing Americans to bypass the
corporate-controlled media and to communicate openly with activists and
intellectuals around the world, to broadcast the true heart of America to the
far corners of the globe. CIA propaganda no longer holds together, but is
fragmented by millions of emails a day, plus radical jests, essays, cartoons.
Coordinated actions are joined together by people who understand the stakes we
are striving for, and the risk to our world of letting the Bush agenda go
unchallenged.

Make no mistake, notwithstanding Bush’s involvement with the 9-11 attacks, the
people behind Bush are out to tear apart every obstacle to their corporate
agenda, using the pretext of National Security. No longer does Bush spout
platitudes about a war on terror and humanitarian intervention, which justified
the bombing of Afghanistan to rubble. The Bush agenda against Iraq is now
touted as “preemptive war,” fighting fire with fire to wipe out weapons of mass
destruction, even if no credible evidence of these weapons exist. Bush’s demand
for regime change backed by the threat of nuclear attack upsets the very basis
of world order accepted since the 1648 Peace of Westphalia. His military agenda
challenges the U.N. Charter of 1945, at the same time attempting to dismantle
and disempower the International Criminal Court. Why? Because one of the
explicit crimes layed out out the Nuremberg trials was “preemptive war.” First
Afghanistan, then Iraq, where will it end?

The uber-Bubba Bush and his handlers attempt to pass this off as a patriotic
reaction to having our planes hijacked and the Trade Towers destroyed, but the
evidence shows that Bush had this agenda when he took over the country, that
the 9-11 attacks gave him the means and justification to seize Saddam’s oil,
even when there’s no credible connection between Al Qaeda and Saddam. We are
witnessing the largest military build-up in history, an unprecedented threat to
use preemptive nuclear force, an unelected regime of far-right extremists
unapologetically dismantling our constitutional rights and enforcing their
military dictatorship on the entire world. The ethical challenge this threat
poses to our future should cause every person in the world to take action!

Millions of people are rising up around the world, intellectuals, unionists,
environmentalists, military veterans, mothers, reverends, all joining hands for
the sake of our planet and the peace which so many millions fought and died
for. We are demanding a true investigation of the Bush regime and their agenda,
their culpability in the 9-11 attacks, their corporate and fascist financing,
their involvement in drug-running, arms dealing, pharmaceutical investing, and
CIA assassination programs. America needs treatment for a very malignant
cancer, one which has taken over the very heart of the nation, and is poisoning
our lifeblood with hate and division. We need to perform emergency surgery– we
need regime change in the United States! Say no to self-appointed military
dictators, not only in Iraq, but here in America! The Bush family must be
exposed, along with the CIA’s agenda of the past century.

While American corporate media tries to sell us the idea that aggression and
exploitation are now “sexy” and ruthless violence is necessary and
entertaining, we must rescue our nation from the real threat to our Security,
and reclaim our ideals. We, the People. In order to form a more perfect Union.
Demand that despots and criminals be held accountable. That war crimes will not
be tolerated at home or abroad, for any justification. That the sovereignty of
nations will be respected, and democratic processes will not be hijacked. That
the People’s right to a free and objective press will not be sold-out and
corrupted. That our children will not be put in harm’s way for the sake of
multinational oil companies and arms manufacturers. That even the most elevated
criminals will be brought to justice, no matter who their fathers may be able
to buy, or assassinate.

Here in Hawai’i, a native nation long suffering under the boot of the American
military has attempted every democratic and ethical appeal to the American
government. Since Bush took over the country, more military mobilizations have
taken place, more claiming of Native Hawaiian homelands for military bombing
practice, more Special Forces and black helicopter search and seizures, more
evictions of Native Hawaiians from their beach homes, while the American media
looks the other way, and Americans are blissfully ignorant of it all. This is a
so-called state of our Union, with third-world exploitation against a nation
that has yet to secure recognition like any other native nation! That’s because
Hawai’i was overthrown by the U.S. Marines in a so-called “preemptive
intervention” to
protectAmerican sugar interests and secure Pearl Harbor. Every Hawaiian knows
that the overthrow was a trumped-up justification to steal the land, and to
repress the most recognized and educated native nation in the world, the
Hawaiian Kingdom. And America still claims we are giving Native Hawaiians the
protection of our “democracy.”

Look around the world, America. One thing you can conclude with absolute
reassurance, from the historical record. Our European allies are trying to
drill it into us. Every empire that has ever existed, from the Romans to the
British, from the Spanish to the Third Reich, has collapsed catastrophically,
mostly in shame and ruin. For the justifications of colonization and
expansionism eventually cost the society too dearly, and the empire runs out of
young people to send to the frontlines to die for political ideology. Mostly
women, old folks, and children are left to rebuild the society, recover the
memories of the culture, and to try the militarists and tyrants for crimes
against humanity. For better or worse, we are now at a crossroads of empire, in
a brand new millennium, where we must deal with the past American century, and
a rogue band of extremist ideologues who have taken over the country.

America will do well to address all of the ills which poison our immune system,
having allowed this cancer to develop to such an explosive stage. We must root
out the legacy of slavery and genocide, as well as the white supremacist ideals
of the founding fathers and their descendant secret societies, such as Bush’s
Skull-and-Bones. To reclaim the American Dream, and save the world from a
nuclear winter, Americans are being called to confront the very representatives
of their most carcinogenic past: the elitists, aggressors, conspirators and
exploiters of suffering who currently control the White House. The consequences
of not reclaiming our American Dream are too grisly and nightmarish to imagine,
but we can look to the collapse of the Roman Empire for an example. 9-11 was
only a taste of the retribution our nation will suffer if the Bush-CIA agenda
is allowed to continue its aggression and the criminal attempt to undermine the
United Nations.

Remember the best of our dreams: Martin Luther King and the courageous men and
women who gave their lives to raise us to a place where world peace was
actually possible. Those who struggled against ignorance and elitism to abolish
slavery, to secure decent wages and working conditions, to have women respected
as equals. The artists and writers who brought the eyes of the world to ours,
so that we could see how our global family is interrelated. The veterans who
have told of their of sacrifice and suffering, and have asked us to pledge to
end war. And especially remember the world’s children, our greatest hope for a
secure future, whose very lives are in our hands. This nuclear madness must end
now, or perhaps never. The fate of the world will be decided in the coming
days. We can no longer afford to surrender our dreams to criminals.

“The nuclear bomb is the most antidemocratic, antinational, antihuman, outright
evil thing that man has ever made. If you are religious then remember that this
bomb is Man’s challenge to God. It’s worded quite simply: We have the power to
destroy everything that You have created.

If you’re not religious, then look at it this way. This world of ours is four
thousand, six hundred million years old. It could end in an afternoon.”

— Arundhati Roy “The End of Imagination”

“There can never be complete agreement on international control and the
administration of atomic energy or on general disarmament until there is a
modification of the traditional concept of national sovereignty. For as long as
atomic energy and armaments are considered a vital part of national security no
nation will give more than lip service to international treaties. Security is
indivisable. It can be reached only when necessary guarantees of law and
enforcement obtain everywhere, so that military security is no longer the
problem of any single state. There is no compromise posssible between
preparation for war, on the one hand, and preparation of a world society based
on law and order on the other.Every citizen must make up his mind. If he
accepts the premise of war, he must reconcile himself to the maintanence of
troops in strategic areas like Austria and Korea; to the sending of troops to
Greece and Bulgaria; to the accumulation of stockpiles of uranium by whatever
means; to the universal military training, to the progressive limitation of
civil liberties. Above all, he must endure the consequences of military secrecy
which is one of the worst scourges of our time and one of the greatest
obstacles to cultural betterment.

If on the other hand every citizen realizes that the only guarantee for
security and peace in this atomic age is the constant development of a
supranational government, then he willl do everything in his power to
strengthen the United Nations. It seems to me that every reasonable and
responsible citizen in the world must know where his choice lies.”

— Dr. Albert Einstein “Open Letter to the General Assembly
of the United Nations”

The Alienated State of America: A Hateful Divide 1-28-03 (IDA)
with graphics and links: http://mutanex.com/alienated
Also Posted at FutureWorks MediaMinistry: http://futureworks.blogspot.com

Essay by Bryan Craeg Evans
Information Officer, Planetary Rescue Corps
Ambassador, MUTANEX Earth Portal http://mutanex.com
(Great Grand-Nephew of Albert Einstein)

Quotations by Arundhati Roy “The End of Imagination”
originally appeared in India in the magazine Frontline
Author of the book “The God of Small Things”

Quotations by Dr. Albert Einstein from various Letters
“Atomic War or Peace” 1947
“The Menace of Mass Destruction” 1947
“The Military Mentality” 1947
“Open Letter to the G.A. of the U.N.” 1947

__________________________________________________
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From: jon freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Citizen Patrick Goes to Washington
Date: January 28, 2003 at 12:58:08 PM EST
To: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>

Do0d, does somebody who runs something called lsdrecords really need to
ask that question…?  Welcome aboard!  I think it’d be a great idea to
get somebody to give us a lot of money, I mean as the next step…

z00m,

ahaha thanx =)

hmmm. money has never really been a strong point of mine. you’d think being
that my parents are jewish i’d be pretty decent in that department, but i
think my genes short changed me.. so…who can we solicit for funds? where can
we find overly rich weirdos? things to ponder…

or maybe we can recruit a team of expert thieves to raid other political
parties….wait, no, that’s far too nixon…

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] granny is addicted but ineligable for treatment?
Date: January 28, 2003 at 10:00:33 AM EST
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Cc: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <rundrugsoutoftownrun@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/67308.htm

GRANNY IS A JUNKIE

By DENISE BUFFA

January 23, 2003 — An accused pill-pushing granny is also a pill-popper who
needs help – but her lawyer says he’s having trouble finding the right rehab
for a Russian-speaking grandma who swallows 200 pills a month.
“She doesn’t use cocaine or heroin. She uses painkillers,” defense lawyer
Joseph Muré Jr. said, “and she has mental health problems.”
The granny, Roza Shusterman, 80, showed up in Brooklyn Supreme Court
yesterday – with a cane instead of her trademark walker – prepared to admit
guilt in the prescription-drug-sale case provided she’d go into a program
instead of prison, Muré said….

Her lawyer says in court documents the pills were prescribed to combat her
various ailments, but yesterday he said she’s addicted to Dilaudid, which
has been called “drugstore heroin” on the street.
When court personnel interviewed her about drug use yesterday, Shusterman –
who sported a helmet of gray hair – told them she didn’t use coke or smack,
and they deemed her ineligible for a program, Muré said.
snip-

This reminds me of the first time I sought treatment for myself, for crack
cocaine use, and had to stop to drink a couple beers before actually
arriving at the place, on the advice of the person we spoke to over the
phone at the treatment facility, who told me that the state of Florida would
not pay for simple crack abuse treatment, that I had to have an alcohol
problem to be admitted into the place, in 1987.
Hmmm….
Peace,
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor at Large High Times mag/.com
“Prohibition creates an irresistibly lucrative
opportunity for entrepreneurs willing to operate
in illicit business. It is the policy
of idealists who cannot appreciate that the use
of drugs often reflects other sets of human
ideals: human perfectibility, the yearning
for a perfect moment, the peace that comes
from oblivion.” Richard Davenport-Hines

From: “Sandra K” <windforme@graffiti.net>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: gorillas and iboga
Date: January 27, 2003 at 11:38:48 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

found this too:

Bwiti origin legends credit the Pygmies with the discovery of iboga. Pygmies in turn attribute
iboga’s discovery to warthogs, porcupine and gorillas that dig holes at the base of plant to
chew the roots, then go into state of nervous excitement (Barabe 1982).

and

http://www.google.ca/search?q=cache:rvs88OlmiaEC:https://lists.calyx.nl/archives/ibogaine/2
001-December/000064.html+ibogaine+gorillas&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

—– Original Message —–
From: “Sandra K” <windforme@graffiti.net>
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 20:30:07 -0800
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fwd: question for the list [ibogaine]

found this:

http://www.google.ca/search?q=cache:x_p95qO1JJ8C:www.kamakala.com/cannabis.htm+ib
oga+boars&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

—– Original Message —–
From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 19:10:07 -0800 (PST)
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Fwd: question for the list [ibogaine]

I read a long time back that elephant would eat the root once a year is that
true.

Anyone hear of this? I think I recall hearing gorillas eating the root…

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From: “Sandra K” <windforme@graffiti.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fwd: question for the list [ibogaine]
Date: January 27, 2003 at 11:30:07 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

found this:

http://www.google.ca/search?q=cache:x_p95qO1JJ8C:www.kamakala.com/cannabis.htm+iboga+boars&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

—– Original Message —–
From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 19:10:07 -0800 (PST)
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Fwd: question for the list [ibogaine]

I read a long time back that elephant would eat the root once a year is that
true.

Anyone hear of this? I think I recall hearing gorillas eating the root…

__________________________________________________
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From: “Sandra K” <windforme@graffiti.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fwd: question for the list [ibogaine]
Date: January 27, 2003 at 10:20:58 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I thought I read something about boars digging up the root to eat it… not sure tho.

—– Original Message —–
From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 19:10:07 -0800 (PST)
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Fwd: question for the list [ibogaine]

I read a long time back that elephant would eat the root once a year is that
true.

Anyone hear of this? I think I recall hearing gorillas eating the root…

__________________________________________________
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From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fwd: question for the list [ibogaine]
Date: January 27, 2003 at 10:10:07 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I read a long time back that elephant would eat the root once a year is that
true.

Anyone hear of this? I think I recall hearing gorillas eating the root…

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
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From: “R. A. Venglarcik” <raven@sybercom.net>
Subject: [ibogaine] More Methadone Horror Stories
Date: January 27, 2003 at 9:17:06 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

From a Canadian friend…

From Saint John, New Brunswick:
Michael Hebert cut off his remaining toe this week.
The 26-year-old inmate of the Saint John Regional Correctional Centre in
New Brunswick used the blade from a razor Monday to make the cut and
protest being taken off methadone.
Despite the “severe pain” Hebert said he’ll continue to mutilate himself
until he gets put back on the program he said he needs to combat a
heroin addiction.
“Either I get on this program or I ain’t gonna come out of this sentence
alive,” he said.
Hebert had his parole revoked last September and was sent to the Saint
John Jail to await a weapons charge.
Jail officials cut off his methadone after a urine test revealed the
presence of marijuana.
Methadone, a synthetic opiate, is used to treat addiction to opiates
such as heroin, codeine and morphine.
________________________________________________________________________
___

I wonder if they’ll be cutting the pay of the lazy jail staff who failed
to do their jobs by safeguarding Mr. Hebert from the smuggling
activities related to this vicious and destructive weed.

From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] amino acids / proteins
Date: January 27, 2003 at 1:49:51 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I can’t answer that question but when detoxing and/or re-cooperating from
Ibogaine treatment ELECTROLYTES help quite a bit. Those purchased at a health
food store in liquid form are the best, but even the little packets of EmergenC
are quite helpful.

— Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si> wrote:
Hi all,

does someone know what happens on amino acid / protein level when:

1. one is thinking REALLY hard
2. during Ibogaine treatment
3. during abstinence syndrome
4. during REM sleep

I’d like to know (even more detailed than is possible) which amino acids or
proteins are formed, which are vanishing…

Thank you,

Marko

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From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] amino acids / proteins
Date: January 27, 2003 at 1:26:58 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Try sleepnet  http://www.sleepnet.com/sitemap.html
…or “neurochemistry of sleep” on google.

Happy hunting.

Personally, although I enjoy my sleep, I think it’s a huge waste of
time.

I can’t recall the television show (Alias?) that I saw the preview for,
but a woman was doing some specific type of meditation, which reduced
her need for sleep to a few hours per night.  Regular practitioners of
TM often report a decreased need for sleep.  A former gummint medical
spook told once me about some Russian Research where they were able to
achieve 1-2 hours of sleep per night for 30 days at a time.  Does anyone
out there have any further information on this subject?

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

Iboga@guest.arnes.si 01/27/03 01:13PM >>>
Hi Brett,

unfortunately, this is not what I’d need :-((
I tried to contact the editor, though, but their forms go to nowhere
;-))

I think it would be very good to know answers to those questions!

Marko

At 18:29 27.1.2003, you wrote:
Marko

Interesting question and one I have pondered.

I found this on sleep.

http://www.csa.com/hottopics/sleep/oview.html

Brett

— Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si> wrote:
Hi all,

does someone know what happens on amino acid /
protein level when:

1. one is thinking REALLY hard
2. during Ibogaine treatment
3. during abstinence syndrome
4. during REM sleep

I’d like to know (even more detailed than is
possible) which amino acids or
proteins are formed, which are vanishing…

Thank you,

Marko

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] super bowl marijuana ad
Date: January 27, 2003 at 1:21:49 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

it’s the parents they’re targeting, as well as the tweens and teens, and they even admit it. (See second item below.)
Peace,
Preston
——

Two media related links to reports on the War on Some Drugs and Users,
one reporting on how much of the corporate media is reporting a recent
report allegedly proving that marijuana is a “gateway” drug, which can be
found here:
1-
http://www.drugwar.com/mcvayverify.shtm
Trust But Verify
by Doug McVay- Common Sense for Drug Policy-
for DrugWar.com
(image)
Using this stuff leads to hard drug
use and abuse?
posted Jan. 23, 2003
The drug war rests on a bed of lies. From time to time, new studies come out
which are claimed by drug warriors to support one or another myth.
Sometimes, getting to the truth is relatively easy.
By now people have heard of the just-published report in JAMA regarding
‘gateway theory’ and cannabis use
(it’s available free >from JAMA at
http://jama.ama-assn.org/issues/v289n4/rfull/joc21156.html).
Many media outlets are reporting the research as showing that cannabis use
at an early age leads to use of hard drugs later on. There’s a good deal
less — and more — to the study than has been reported so far, at least in
the US.
snip-
Read report at above URL

2-
Then there’s the following report (see below) from NIDA on the fact that the
ONDCP National Anti-Drug Media Campaign is not only not keeping kids from
trying illegal drugs, it even appears to be driving more to try pot. This
isn’t exactly new news, though it is a new report, in that Drug Czar Walters
told Congress last year that the prior stages of the Media Campaign had
already had this same result, but that the prohibitionists could build a
bigger, better, faster version if only we’d give them yet more of our
tax-dollars.

—– Original Message —–
From: preston peet
To: drugwar@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 9:56 AM
Subject: [drugwar] Fw: New antidrug media campaign evaluation – quotes

—– Original Message —–
From: Doug McVay
Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 9:20 AM
Subject: New antidrug media campaign evaluation – quotes

Good Morning All,
The following are some quotes from the newly released Fifth Semiannual
Evaluation of the Anti-drug Media Campaign which may prove useful. It
should be noted that this evaluation includes the terrorism ads which
debuted on last year’s Super Bowl, which, as this report confirms, were
indeed failures.
Again, copies of the evaluation can be downloaded from
http://www.nida.nih.gov/despr/westat/
Have a great day,
Doug

———-
Source: Hornik, Robert, et al., “Evaluation of the National Youth
Anti-Drug Media Campaign: Fifth Semi-Annual Report of Findings,”
Delivered to: National Institute on Drug Abuse, National Institutes of
Health, Department of Health and Human Services By: Westat & the
Annenberg School for Communication, Contract No.: N01DA-8-5063, November
2002.

“There is no statistically significant change for the full 12- to
18-year-old sample in intentions to use
marijuana once or twice over the five waves of measurement among prior
nonusers. There is,
however, a small trend, unfavorable to the Campaign, on marijuana
intentions among 14- to
18-year-old nonusers. The downward trend appears to be statistically
equivalent among both the 14-
to 15-year-olds and 16- to 18-year-olds.” (p. 5-8)

“After controlling for confounders by propensity scoring, there is no
significant cross-sectional
association between either exposure measure and intentions to use
marijuana for the entire Wave 1
through Wave 5 population of 12- to 18-year-old youth (see Table 5-F and
Detail Tables 5-33 and
5-34).
There is also no statistically significant cross-sectional association
between general exposure and the
Attitudes/Beliefs Index, nor between specific exposure and the
Attitudes/Belief Index as shown by
the nonsignificant gammas in the table above. However, there is a
significant direct effect (comparing
the lowest exposed group with the average group) of specific exposure on
the Attitudes/Belief Index,
in an unfavorable direction. This is shown in Table 5-G as well as in
Detail Tables 5-35 and 5-36.” (p. 5-12)

“The cross-sectional results for the self-efficacy scale are essentially
consistent with the
Attitudes/Beliefs Index. There is no statistically significant
cross-sectional association of general
exposure and the Self Efficacy to Refuse Index, nor of specific exposure
and Self-Efficacy. There is a
significant direct effect of specific exposure on the Self Efficacy
Index in an unfavorable direction.” (p. 5-13)

“In conclusion then, the gamma statistic provides no supportive evidence
that concurrent campaign
exposure is associated either favorably or unfavorably with any of the
four cognitive outcomes for the
full sample of 12- to 18-year-olds. The direct effect suggests an
unfavorable association between
specific exposure and attitudes/behavior and self-efficacy. (pp.
5-13-14)

“There was no evidence (judged by gamma) for statistically significant
associations overall, nor for
either of the age subgroups nor for any of the other subgroups. The
trend results provide mixed
evidence about favorable versus unfavorable, versus no Campaign effects,
but the associational data
does not support any claims of effects in either direction. Thus far
then, the analyses do not support an
inference of Campaign effects.” (pp. 5-14-15)

“Given the lack of evidence of Campaign effects shown in the previous
sections, finding
evidence for a delayed effect on the cognitive outcomes and on reported
marijuana use had not been
expected. Nonetheless, while the trend data showed both favorable and
unfavorable changes since the
start of the Campaign, and the cross-sectional analysis showed no
evidence of effects at all, the
longitudinal analysis exhibits a mix of no effect and unfavorable effect
results. Where there are any
effects, those who were more exposed to the Campaign at Round 1 tended
to move more markedly in
a “pro-drug” direction as they aged than those who were less exposed.
These are consistent with the
results from the previous report (Hornik, et al 2002).” (p. 5-17)

“For the
eight cognitive outcomes, all of the gammas are negative with four of
the eight results statistically
significant for the full sample. These outcomes involve intentions,
social norms, and self-efficacy. The
associations between both general and specific exposure at Round 1, with
Round 2 intentions to not
use marijuana, are unfavorable and statistically significant. Youth who
were higher on exposure at
Round 1 were more likely to intend to use marijuana at Round 2 than
those with lower exposure at
Round 1. A similar relationship was found for social norms. Youth with
higher general exposure at
Round 1 had more “pro-drug” social norms at Round 2 than those with
lower exposure at Round 1.
There is also a significant unfavorable relationship between specific
exposure and self-efficacy. That
is, youth with higher exposure at Round 1 had lower self-efficacy at
Round 2 than those with lower
exposure at Round 1. Only the attitude/belief index shows no association
at all with either measure of
prior exposure.” (p. 5-17)

“In contrast to the evidence >from the cognitive variables, the overall
results do not show any effect of
Campaign exposure on behavior; i.e., the initiation of use. About 13
percent of all of these nonusing
youth initiated marijuana use between the measurement waves. However the
level of exposure youth
reported at Round 1 does not predict their initiation, once the
propensity scoring adjustments are
incorporated.” (p. 5-17)

“While the negative results described above are not desirable from the
perspective of the Campaign,
they are consistent with the similarly unfavorable results published in
the last semi-annual report.” (p. 5-20)

“The delayed-effects results provided no evidence of a favorable
Campaign effect. On the contrary, all of the evidence from the
delayed-effects analysis suggested either no
Campaign effect, or an unfavorable effect. Three of the four cognitive
outcomes showed an
unfavorable significant association of exposure and outcomes for one or
both of the exposure
measures. The youth, who reported more exposure to Campaign advertising
at Round 1, were more
likely subsequently to show some intention to use marijuana and to
report less self-efficacy to resist
marijuana if it was available to them. However, they were not more
likely to actually report more
initiation of marijuana, once the full set of confounders were
statistically controlled, nor were they
more likely to report higher pro-marijuana scores on an index of beliefs
and attitudes. The delayedeffects
analysis suggests an unfavorable effect of the Campaign. The significant
unfavorable effects on
intentions, self-efficacy, and to some extent, social norms, have not
yet produced statistically
significant effects on marijuana initiation. However, those cognitive
measures are very strongly
predictive of subsequent marijuana initiation. Among nonusing youth, the
odds of initiating use by
Round 2 were 8 times as great for those who did not versus those who did
say “definitely not” to the
intentions question at Round 1. Thus these analyses do not support an
inference of a favorable
Campaign effect. In addition, there continues to be evidence that
exposure to the Campaign predicts
poorer, rather than better outcomes.” (pp. 5-21-22)

“Trend effects are, in fact, partly consistent with an unfavorable
Campaign effect. There was evidence
for an unfavorable, overall trend in social norms, and an unfavorable
trend in intentions for 14- to
18-year-olds. Also, the newly published NHSDA results suggest that there
was a small increase in
marijuana use between 2000 and 2001, an increase that would not have
been detectable with the
NSPY sample. However, the favorable trend on the self-efficacy index is
not consistent with the
evidence for an unfavorable delayed-effects on the same outcome.” (p.
5-23)

“There is then some difficulty, certainly, in reconciling the full set
of results. The inference logic set at
the outset asked for three mutually supportive results to make a claim
for positive Campaign effects: a
favorable trend, a favorable association, and evidence for a favorable
delayed-effects. Obviously these
have not been found, and thus there are no grounds to make a claim that
the Campaign has had a favorable effect on youth thus far.” (pp.
5-23-24)

“By and large the current report sustains the unfavorable results from
the previous one.” (p. 5-24)

“Youth report that their parents engage in these behaviors less
frequently than do parents, at every age.
As examples, while 62 percent of parents of 12- to 18-year-olds claimed
they always or almost always
knew where children were when they were away from home, only 49 percent
of youth agreed; 63
percent of parents but only 32 percent of youth claimed that parents
always or almost always knew the
child’s plans for the coming day. Finally, 27 percent of parents, but
only 8 percent of youth said they
never spent time alone with other children without adult supervision.
Also, as can be seen in Table
6-B, there is no parallel pattern of change in youth reports that would
reinforce parents’ claims. For
12- to 18-year-olds, parents claim to be monitoring more, but youth do
not report a similar change
(see also Detail Table 6-3).” (p. 6-8)

“The parallel data from youth about the same talk questions provide a
very different picture from the
parent reports (Table 6-E and Detail Table 6-4), with much lower
absolute levels of reported talk.
While parents report undertaking 2.4 out of 3 behaviors, their children
report approximately 1.5 of
those behaviors. Finally, while parents showed a small but favorable
change, the youth reports show
an unfavorable change of the same magnitude, which is also statistically
significant. Every age group
of children, except for the 16- to 18-year-olds, shows a statistically
significant unfavorable trend. As
will be shown below, there is evidence that these favorable
parent-reported trends among parents of all
youth aged 12 to 18 complement a strong cross-sectional association
between exposure and talking
behavior. However, the lack of support in child reports of talking
behavior brings into question an
otherwise strong inference about Campaign effects on parent and youth
talk about drugs.” (p. 6-10)

“For all youth aged 12 to 18, there were no cross-sectional overall
associations for either measure of
parental exposure and youth past year marijuana use. There was one
significant association by
subgroup: for the general exposure measure there were unfavorable
direct, overall, and maximum
associations for Hispanic youth. This subgroup association was not found
in the previous report. For
the specific exposure measure, there were no significant associations.
This subgroup result must
therefore be interpreted with caution.
“For all youth 12 to 18 years old, there were no significant overall
associations between either measure
of exposure and intentions to not use marijuana, anti-marijuana beliefs
and attitudes, perceived antimarijuana
social norms, and self-efficacy to refuse marijuana.” (p. 6-22)

“As has been shown, youth report a very different picture about parent
talk with them about drug
topics. Youth reports of talking are much lower than parent reports, and
more notably youth report
that drug talk with parents is declining over the course of the
Campaign. This creates concern about
the confidence to be placed in the upward trend reported by parents.
Also, there is little evidence that
the talk variable, as measured here, is related to youth drug use.
Parent reports of talk do not predict
any lowered likelihood of youth initiating marijuana use for nonusing
youth. Thus any claim of a
Campaign effect on parents is tempered by a concern that it is an effect
on an outcome with an
uncertain relation to youth behavior.” (p. 6-26)

———-


Doug McVay
Editor, Drug War Facts
Research Director/Projects Coordinator
Common Sense for Drug Policy
1327 Harvard Street NW (lower level), Washington, DC 20009
202-332-9101 — fax 202-518-4028
http://www.csdp.org/ — http://www.drugwarfacts.org/
dmcvay@csdp.org

“There is no need to go into the oft-told story of the
events of that week. The insurgents fought with a typical
Irish gallantry, attacked by soldiers using artillery and
outnumbering them twenty to one. Cut off from all possible
support >from the country, or from reinforcements of any
kind, they held out for almost a week, during which Dublin
was badly damaged and over three thousand people died.
The leaders knew their rising was bound to fail, but they
were prepared to barter their lives against the
possibilities of their various dreams coming true after
their deaths.”
— Tim Pat Coogan describing the Easter Rising of 1916
in his book, “The IRA: A History” (Niwot, CO: Roberts
Rinehart Publishers, 1994), pp. 14-15.

—– Original Message —–
From: Randy Hencken
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 11:43 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] super bowl marijuana ad

I saw the new ad that our Drug Czar produced yesterday, the one about the
teenage girl getting pregnant due to impaired judgment from smoking pot, HA!
The producers of that ad are so clueless.  In Amerika, in the face of
alcohol, our number one, legal and accepted drug, seriously the cause of
millions of unwanted sexual encounters.  Our teenagers aren’t dumb enough to
fall for this line of advertising.  If I was 16 years old I would have only
been insulted by this futile attempt at scaring me away from pot.  That ad
must have cost over a million dollars to run.  And it was run between dozens
of budweiser ads.

When I was a teenager, even today, guaranteed way for me to ruin a first
date and not get laid…smoke a joint with the girl.

Alcohol is the magic that comes in the form of a sex…six pack.

What rock do these people hide under?

-Randy

_________________________________________________________________
Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8.
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From: Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] amino acids / proteins
Date: January 27, 2003 at 1:13:46 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Brett,

unfortunately, this is not what I’d need :-((
I tried to contact the editor, though, but their forms go to nowhere ;-))

I think it would be very good to know answers to those questions!

Marko

At 18:29 27.1.2003, you wrote:
Marko

Interesting question and one I have pondered.

I found this on sleep.

http://www.csa.com/hottopics/sleep/oview.html

Brett

— Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> does someone know what happens on amino acid /
> protein level when:
>
> 1. one is thinking REALLY hard
> 2. during Ibogaine treatment
> 3. during abstinence syndrome
> 4. during REM sleep
>
> I’d like to know (even more detailed than is
> possible) which amino acids or
> proteins are formed, which are vanishing…
>
> Thank you,
>
> Marko
>
>
>

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
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From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] amino acids / proteins
Date: January 27, 2003 at 12:29:32 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Marko

Interesting question and one I have pondered.

I found this on sleep.

http://www.csa.com/hottopics/sleep/oview.html

Brett

— Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si> wrote:
Hi all,

does someone know what happens on amino acid /
protein level when:

1. one is thinking REALLY hard
2. during Ibogaine treatment
3. during abstinence syndrome
4. during REM sleep

I’d like to know (even more detailed than is
possible) which amino acids or
proteins are formed, which are vanishing…

Thank you,

Marko

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

From: “Randy Hencken” <randyhencken@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] super bowl marijuana ad
Date: January 27, 2003 at 12:22:07 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Beautiful Rick, simply beautiful.

From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] super bowl marijuana ad
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 12:18:59 -0500

They hide beneath the rock of profit;
their hands sink deeply
within pockets lined of paper:
Budweiser stocks,
corporate bonds,
dividends,
and the gods of wealth and greed.
They weigh the worth of other men’s souls
in terms of dollars, not sense…
their solid rock of truth…they firmly rest upon that which is
politically expedient
for the moment.
They have grown blind…become deaf
in the pursuit of riches,while poor men starve.

…then shake their heads and mutter excuses when their children are
sacrificed on altars.

In my opinion, anyway.

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE*  http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] super bowl marijuana ad
Date: January 27, 2003 at 12:22:09 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Well Spoken!

— Rick Venglarcik <RickV@hnncsb.org> wrote:
They hide beneath the rock of profit;
their hands sink deeply
within pockets lined of paper:
Budweiser stocks,
corporate bonds,
dividends,
and the gods of wealth and greed.
They weigh the worth of other men’s souls
in terms of dollars, not sense…
their solid rock of truth…they firmly rest upon that which is
politically expedient
for the moment.
They have grown blind…become deaf
in the pursuit of riches,while poor men starve.

…then shake their heads and mutter excuses when their children are
sacrificed on altars.

In my opinion, anyway.

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
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From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] super bowl marijuana ad
Date: January 27, 2003 at 12:18:59 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

They hide beneath the rock of profit;
their hands sink deeply
within pockets lined of paper:
Budweiser stocks,
corporate bonds,
dividends,
and the gods of wealth and greed.
They weigh the worth of other men’s souls
in terms of dollars, not sense…
their solid rock of truth…they firmly rest upon that which is
politically expedient
for the moment.
They have grown blind…become deaf
in the pursuit of riches,while poor men starve.

…then shake their heads and mutter excuses when their children are
sacrificed on altars.

In my opinion, anyway.

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

From: “Randy Hencken” <randyhencken@hotmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] super bowl marijuana ad
Date: January 27, 2003 at 11:43:06 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I saw the new ad that our Drug Czar produced yesterday, the one about the teenage girl getting pregnant due to impaired judgment from smoking pot, HA!  The producers of that ad are so clueless.  In Amerika, in the face of alcohol, our number one, legal and accepted drug, seriously the cause of millions of unwanted sexual encounters.  Our teenagers aren’t dumb enough to fall for this line of advertising.  If I was 16 years old I would have only been insulted by this futile attempt at scaring me away from pot.  That ad must have cost over a million dollars to run.  And it was run between dozens of budweiser ads.

When I was a teenager, even today, guaranteed way for me to ruin a first date and not get laid…smoke a joint with the girl.

Alcohol is the magic that comes in the form of a sex…six pack.

What rock do these people hide under?

-Randy

_________________________________________________________________
Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

From: Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si>
Subject: [ibogaine] amino acids / proteins
Date: January 27, 2003 at 10:21:14 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi all,

does someone know what happens on amino acid / protein level when:

1. one is thinking REALLY hard
2. during Ibogaine treatment
3. during abstinence syndrome
4. during REM sleep

I’d like to know (even more detailed than is possible) which amino acids or proteins are formed, which are vanishing…

Thank you,

Marko

From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] the guilt-free soldier?
Date: January 26, 2003 at 12:28:08 PM EST
To: ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Cc: digital@phantom.com

Mr Peet,

interesting piece, and friggin scary. I don’t doubt for a minute that some our
finest three letter organizations have already been using such substances for
some time, although fear is one of their most crucial and motivating
influences.

My last ibo experience seemed to focus on fear, my own and the collective
conscience of the world right now. Fear has been used since the begining of
time to control us… scary to think some select soldiers could be immune from
its clutches… makes you stop and think, eh?

-hope all’s well in NYC…

-dh

— preston peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
http://sf.indymedia.org/news/2003/01/1565437.php
The Guilt-Free Soldier
by Erik Baard . Friday January 24, 2003 at 02:40 PM

New Science Raises the Specter of a World Without Regret

<snip></snip>

__________________________________________________
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From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] drugs without perscriptions?
Date: January 26, 2003 at 12:19:55 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— preston peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Does the following look to anyone else like a set-up? Like, one of the ops
whereby the feds/whoever set up a crime situation enticing suckers in to see
how many arrests they can add to next year’s justification for more War
funding? Or this sort of thing legit, and if so, how in the heck could it
be? Not having read the small print yet, I suppose they may warn that it
isn’t legal in some countries, but like I said, I haven’t read the small
print.

There are a bunch of these sites out there, most of the “online pharmacies”
that sell opiods are located in Mexico. Their deal is you must first purchase a
membership, some will sell without a script, others make you pay for that
first. Its exensive for vicodin and oxy’s because those are only manufactured
in the good ole U.S. of A. and must be imported across the border. A lot of the
sites won’t sell opiates/iods but sell tranq’s and shit like viagra, celebrex,
and other pharmaceuticals.

Then there are other “Online Pharmacy” sites that you have to pay to enter,
once you do they only provide links/contacts to pharmacies that may or may not
have what you seek. which 90% of turn out to be dead-ends if you are seeking
narcotics.

Interesting thought as it being a setup, although I believe there is a law
permitting 90 US citizens to purchase days worth of medicine from foriegn
pharmacies.

this site does offer the following, aparently: (But something smells fishy, if
not steeply priced)

http://www.borderpharmacy.com/sample/vicodin.html

http://www.borderpharmacy.com/sample/oxycontin.html

http://www.borderpharmacy.com/sample/lorazepam.html

http://www.borderpharmacy.com/sample/lortab.html

-gamma

__________________________________________________
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From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] the calm before the storm
Date: January 26, 2003 at 11:13:53 AM EST
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Cc: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.drugwar.com/pcalmstorm.shtm

The Calm Before the Storm
by Preston Peet-
for the New York Waste-
Feb. 2003
(image)
peacefully ill
posted at DrugWar.com
January 26, 2003
…..
“You’ve done heroin? That’s the one drug I really want to try, but I haven’t
ever seen it,” Jennifer says to Thomas one early Winter evening, staring at
him with her great big eyes, sitting up half naked in their bed in Atlanta,
Georgia. They’ve been discussing their favorite topics- music, sex and
drugs.
“Oh yeah?” says Thomas. “How would you want to do it, sniff, smoke or shoot
it?”
“Shoot it for sure,” she replied.
Thomas has himself a mission….
snip-
Read Story at above URL
Peace,
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor at Large High Times mag/.com
“Prohibition creates an irresistibly lucrative
opportunity for entrepreneurs willing to operate
in illicit business. It is the policy
of idealists who cannot appreciate that the use
of drugs often reflects other sets of human
ideals: human perfectibility, the yearning
for a perfect moment, the peace that comes
from oblivion.” Richard Davenport-Hines

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] drugs without perscriptions?
Date: January 26, 2003 at 10:47:50 AM EST
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Cc: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Does the following look to anyone else like a set-up? Like, one of the ops
whereby the feds/whoever set up a crime situation enticing suckers in to see
how many arrests they can add to next year’s justification for more War
funding? Or this sort of thing legit, and if so, how in the heck could it
be? Not having read the small print yet, I suppose they may warn that it
isn’t legal in some countries, but like I said, I haven’t read the small
print.

http://www.borderpharmacy.com/
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list of sample prices just go to PRESCRIPTION PRICES but remember that this
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CONTROL OF YOUR LIFE TODAY!

Peace,
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor at Large High Times mag/.com
“Prohibition creates an irresistibly lucrative
opportunity for entrepreneurs willing to operate
in illicit business. It is the policy
of idealists who cannot appreciate that the use
of drugs often reflects other sets of human
ideals: human perfectibility, the yearning
for a perfect moment, the peace that comes
from oblivion.” Richard Davenport-Hines

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] the guilt-free soldier?
Date: January 26, 2003 at 7:31:56 AM EST
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Cc: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://sf.indymedia.org/news/2003/01/1565437.php
The Guilt-Free Soldier
by Erik Baard . Friday January 24, 2003 at 02:40 PM

New Science Raises the Specter of a World Without Regret
A soldier faces a drab cluster of buildings off a broken highway, where the
enemy is encamped among civilians. Local farmers and their families are
routinely forced to fill the basements and shacks, acting as human shields
for weapons that threaten the lives of other civilians, the soldier’s
comrades, and his cause in this messy 21st-century war.
There will be no surgical strikes tonight. The artillery this soldier can
unleash with a single command to his mobile computer will bring flames and
screaming, deafening blasts and unforgettably acrid air. The ground around
him will be littered with the broken bodies of women and children, and he’ll
have to walk right through. Every value he learned as a boy tells him to
back down, to return to base and find another way of routing the enemy. Or,
he reasons, he could complete the task and rush back to start popping pills
that can, over the course of two weeks, immunize him against a lifetime of
crushing remorse. He draws one last clean breath and fires.
Pills like those won’t be available to the troops heading off for possible
war with Iraq, but the prospect of a soul absolved by meds remains very
real. Feelings of guilt and regret travel neural pathways in a manner that
mimics the tracings of ingrained fear, so a prophylactic against one could
guard against the other. Several current lines of research, some federally
funded, show strong promise for this.
At the University of California at Irvine, experiments in rats indicate that
the brain’s hormonal reactions to fear can be inhibited, softening the
formation of memories and the emotions they evoke. At New York University,
researchers are mastering the means of short-circuiting the very wiring of
primal fear. At Columbia University one Nobel laureate’s lab has discovered
the gene behind a fear-inhibiting protein, uncovering a vision of “fight or
flight” at the molecular level. In Puerto Rico, at the Ponce School of
Medicine, scientists are discovering ways to help the brain unlearn fear and
inhibitions by stimulating it with magnets. And at Harvard University,
survivors of car accidents are already swallowing propranolol pills, in the
first human trials of that common cardiac drug as a means to nip the effects
of trauma in the bud.
The web of your worst nightmares, your hauntings and panics and shame,
radiates from a dense knot of neurons called the amygdala. With each new
frightening or humiliating experience, or even the reliving of an old one,
this fear center triggers a release of hormones that sear horrifying
impressions into your brain. That which is unbearable becomes unforgettable
too. Unless, it seems, you act quickly enough to block traumatic memories
from taking a stranglehold.
Some observers say that in the name of human decency there are some things
people should have to live with. They object to the idea of medicating away
one’s conscience.
“It’s the morning-after pill for just about anything that produces regret,
remorse, pain, or guilt,” says Dr. Leon Kass, chairman of the President’s
Council on Bioethics, who emphasizes that he’s speaking as an individual and
not on behalf of the council. Barry Romo, a national coordinator for Vietnam
Veterans Against the War, is even more blunt. “That’s the devil pill,” he
says. “That’s the monster pill, the anti-morality pill. That’s the pill that
can make men and women do anything and think they can get away with it. Even
if it doesn’t work, what’s scary is that a young soldier could believe it
will.”
Are we ready for the infamous Nuremberg plea?”I was just following
orders”?to be made easier with pharmaceuticals? Though the research so far
has been limited to animals and the most preliminary of human trials, the
question is worth debating now.
snip-
Peace,
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor at Large High Times mag/.com
“Prohibition creates an irresistibly lucrative
opportunity for entrepreneurs willing to operate
in illicit business. It is the policy
of idealists who cannot appreciate that the use
of drugs often reflects other sets of human
ideals: human perfectibility, the yearning
for a perfect moment, the peace that comes
from oblivion.” Richard Davenport-Hines

From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] just what we’ve all been waiting for…
Date: January 26, 2003 at 2:48:33 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Patrick, order us two each on the MindVox Corporate Card.

http://www.voodoomachine.com/?wid=1425&bid=3

-gamma

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] re butthole surfers
Date: January 25, 2003 at 12:46:22 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

please don’t forget about the butthole surfers they put on some of the best
shows i’ve ever been to and they used to hang out with william s burroughs<

For your amusement-

http://www.drugwar.com/pshroomshows.shtm
A Simple Experiment Goes Well
Butthole Surfers are a better Shroom Band than Jane’s Addiction
By Preston Peet (Originally published in the New York Waste, Nov. 2001)
I was reading Melbomene Whitehead’s Subderma column in the October issue of
the New York Waste one lazy Thursday afternoon, enthralled with her vivid
account of patriotic bra shopping, when I came to her declaration of the
unsuitability of wearing a certain bra to the upcoming Butthole Surfers’
concert.
I immediately threw down the Waste as I leapt to my feet.
“V,” I exclaimed, “Butthole Surfers are playing next week, and I’m going to
get tickets right now.” And I did.
Upon waking the next morning, what should I find on my computer keyboard but
a confirmation note saying that 2 Jane’s Addiction tickets were in the
process of heading our way.
Jane’s Addiction tickets? What?
Sure enough, seems that while at work V heard about a Jane’s Addiction show
at Madison Square Garden the very next Monday, October 15th, just a weekend
away, and managed to hook us tickets.
Holy shit, two of my all time favorite bands, (among an uncountable
multitude really), and they were playing the same week, and we were going to
see them both.
In the interests of science, I decided to undertake a seriously controlled
experiment, to see which band was a better show to see on shrooms.
snip-

Peace,
Preston
“This one goes to 11. It’s one louder, isn’t it? It’s not ten. You
see, most blokes will be playing at ten. — Where can you go from there?
Where?”
— Nigel Tufnel, Spinal Tap lead guitarist

—– Original Message —–
From: Bernard C Phifer
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2003 11:49 AM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] pAging Dr. OctaGon

Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 17:22:05 -0500
From: jfreed1 <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
To: ibogaine <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] pAging Dr. OctaGon

===== Original Message From crownofthorns@hushmail.com =====
Bro, saying this is terrible doesnt begin to do it justice. its awful. it
may
be the worst thing anyone has ever recorded and this is coming from me who
used to listen to the dead kennedys. I never knew the sex pistols totally
ruined a frank sinatra song. he’s tone deaf, he cant sing they cant play
the
instruments. it sucks so hard…………………………..

for the record, i think that was a sid vicious solo attempt, not the actual
sex pistols. sid never really played in the sex pistols; the bass on
“nevermind the bollocks” was glen matlock. arguably, sid played bass during
the shows. whether or not it can actually be considered “playing” is a
matter
up for debate. some of the time, they just had a tape back up for him.

in a nutshell, sid was mostly there for his image.

now the dead kennedys were actually talented musicians, at least in my
opinion. there’s not a whole lot of other punk out there that’s as
intricately
orchaestrated, and east bay ray had some really great guitar riffs.


League of Surrealistic Discord Records — www.lsdrecords.com

please don’t forget about the butthole surfers they put on some of the best
shows i’ve ever been to and they used to hang out with william s burroughs

______________________________________________________
Get Paid… With Your Free Email at
http://www.zwallet.com/index.html?user=chimp

From: Bernard C Phifer <chimp@zwallet.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] pAging Dr. OctaGon
Date: January 25, 2003 at 11:49:42 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 17:22:05 -0500
From: jfreed1 <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
To: ibogaine <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] pAging Dr. OctaGon

===== Original Message From crownofthorns@hushmail.com =====
Bro, saying this is terrible doesnt begin to do it justice. its awful. it may
be the worst thing anyone has ever recorded and this is coming from me who
used to listen to the dead kennedys. I never knew the sex pistols totally
ruined a frank sinatra song. he’s tone deaf, he cant sing they cant play the
instruments. it sucks so hard…………………………..

for the record, i think that was a sid vicious solo attempt, not the actual
sex pistols. sid never really played in the sex pistols; the bass on
“nevermind the bollocks” was glen matlock. arguably, sid played bass during
the shows. whether or not it can actually be considered “playing” is a matter
up for debate. some of the time, they just had a tape back up for him.

in a nutshell, sid was mostly there for his image.

now the dead kennedys were actually talented musicians, at least in my
opinion. there’s not a whole lot of other punk out there that’s as intricately
orchaestrated, and east bay ray had some really great guitar riffs.


League of Surrealistic Discord Records — www.lsdrecords.com

please don’t forget about the butthole surfers they put on some of the best shows i’ve ever been to and they used to hang out with william s burroughs

______________________________________________________
Get Paid… With Your Free Email at
http://www.zwallet.com/index.html?user=chimp

From: “Joshua Tinnin” <krinklyfig@myrealbox.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] pAging Dr. OctaGon
Date: January 24, 2003 at 10:55:18 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yeah …. veering way off topic. But you’re right, that’s a Sid solo. It was
recorded when the band, and Sid, were disintegrating. It does appear on one
of the Sex Pistols albums, but one released after Sid died. I like Frank
Sinatra, but only because I’ve come to appreciate him as a jazz singer,
which, beneath the lounge veneer, he really was, and a pretty damn good one.
And he was a part of a rowdy gang when he was younger, and got trashed all
the time. Hey, I can relate, except our clothing wasn’t nearly so cool, and
few of us could sing well … and, yeah, none of us had mafia connections,
either.

– jt

—– Original Message —–
From: “Gamma” <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>

“I did it my way” was definately a Sid Solo, and was gloriously
resurrected in
the movie “Sid & Nancy” – Sid being played by Gary Oldman who nailed it,
IMHO.
I loved the movie, and fucking love Sids version of the song. Its horrible
and
timeless and I can’t stand Frank Sinatra anyways.

My 2 cent$.

rock on.

-gamma

— Joshua Tinnin <krinklyfig@myrealbox.com> wrote:
Hey, I *like* the Dead Kennedys – then and now … but Jello is a guy
with
conviction. I’m not so sure I’d say that about the people in the Malcolm
McLaren troupe. But tone deaf? Who cares, dood, it’s punk rawk.

– jt

—– Original Message —–
From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>

Bro, saying this is terrible doesnt begin to do it justice. its awful.
it
may be the worst thing anyone has ever recorded and this is coming from
me
who used to listen to the dead kennedys. I never knew the sex pistols
totally ruined a frank sinatra song. he’s tone deaf, he cant sing they
cant
play the instruments. it sucks so hard…………………………..

Thats pretty good.

I’m listening to it for the 2nd time now. thanks!

Peace out,
Curtis

On Fri, 24 Jan 2003 10:25:58 -0800 “Patrick K. Kroupa”
<digital@phantom.com>
wrote:
On [Fri, Jan 24, 2003 at 01:31:22PM -0500], [jfreed1] wrote:
| >===== Original Message From “Patrick K. Kroupa”
<digital@phantom.com>
=====
| >On [Tue, Jan 21, 2003 at 06:38:44PM -0800], [Gamma] wrote:
| >
| >| — “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> wrote:
| >| > On [Tue, Jan 21, 2003 at 07:55:50AM -0800], [Gamma] wrote:
| >| >
| >| > | is there anybody out there?
| >| >
| >| > Is there anybody in there…?  Just nod if you can hear me.
| >|
| >| Justa little PinPricK…
| >
| >http://www.phantom.com/templates/tunez/Sisters%20Of%20Mercy%20-
%20Comfortably
| %20Numb%20(Live%20’00%20Extended%20Cover).mp3
|
|
| <shudder> pretty amusing, but not exactly…ummm….whats the
word?  good? =)

Well fine, be like that, HERE is good:

http://www.phantom.com/templates/tunez/Sex%20Pistols%20-%20My%20Way%20(Cove
r).mp3

patricK

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] pAging Dr. OctaGon
Date: January 24, 2003 at 10:30:07 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“I did it my way” was definately a Sid Solo, and was gloriously resurrected in
the movie “Sid & Nancy” – Sid being played by Gary Oldman who nailed it, IMHO.
I loved the movie, and fucking love Sids version of the song. Its horrible and
timeless and I can’t stand Frank Sinatra anyways.

My 2 cent$.

rock on.

-gamma

— Joshua Tinnin <krinklyfig@myrealbox.com> wrote:
Hey, I *like* the Dead Kennedys – then and now … but Jello is a guy with
conviction. I’m not so sure I’d say that about the people in the Malcolm
McLaren troupe. But tone deaf? Who cares, dood, it’s punk rawk.

– jt

—– Original Message —–
From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>

Bro, saying this is terrible doesnt begin to do it justice. its awful. it
may be the worst thing anyone has ever recorded and this is coming from me
who used to listen to the dead kennedys. I never knew the sex pistols
totally ruined a frank sinatra song. he’s tone deaf, he cant sing they cant
play the instruments. it sucks so hard…………………………..

Thats pretty good.

I’m listening to it for the 2nd time now. thanks!

Peace out,
Curtis

On Fri, 24 Jan 2003 10:25:58 -0800 “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
wrote:
On [Fri, Jan 24, 2003 at 01:31:22PM -0500], [jfreed1] wrote:
| >===== Original Message From “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
=====
| >On [Tue, Jan 21, 2003 at 06:38:44PM -0800], [Gamma] wrote:
| >
| >| — “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> wrote:
| >| > On [Tue, Jan 21, 2003 at 07:55:50AM -0800], [Gamma] wrote:
| >| >
| >| > | is there anybody out there?
| >| >
| >| > Is there anybody in there…?  Just nod if you can hear me.
| >|
| >| Justa little PinPricK…
| >
| >http://www.phantom.com/templates/tunez/Sisters%20Of%20Mercy%20-
%20Comfortably
| %20Numb%20(Live%20’00%20Extended%20Cover).mp3
|
|
| <shudder> pretty amusing, but not exactly…ummm….whats the
word?  good? =)

Well fine, be like that, HERE is good:

http://www.phantom.com/templates/tunez/Sex%20Pistols%20-%20My%20Way%20(Cove
r).mp3

patricK

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

From: “Joshua Tinnin” <krinklyfig@myrealbox.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] pAging Dr. OctaGon
Date: January 24, 2003 at 9:43:32 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey, I *like* the Dead Kennedys – then and now … but Jello is a guy with
conviction. I’m not so sure I’d say that about the people in the Malcolm
McLaren troupe. But tone deaf? Who cares, dood, it’s punk rawk.

– jt

—– Original Message —–
From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>

Bro, saying this is terrible doesnt begin to do it justice. its awful. it
may be the worst thing anyone has ever recorded and this is coming from me
who used to listen to the dead kennedys. I never knew the sex pistols
totally ruined a frank sinatra song. he’s tone deaf, he cant sing they cant
play the instruments. it sucks so hard…………………………..

Thats pretty good.

I’m listening to it for the 2nd time now. thanks!

Peace out,
Curtis

On Fri, 24 Jan 2003 10:25:58 -0800 “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
wrote:
On [Fri, Jan 24, 2003 at 01:31:22PM -0500], [jfreed1] wrote:
| >===== Original Message From “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
=====
| >On [Tue, Jan 21, 2003 at 06:38:44PM -0800], [Gamma] wrote:
| >
| >| — “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> wrote:
| >| > On [Tue, Jan 21, 2003 at 07:55:50AM -0800], [Gamma] wrote:
| >| >
| >| > | is there anybody out there?
| >| >
| >| > Is there anybody in there…?  Just nod if you can hear me.
| >|
| >| Justa little PinPricK…
| >
| >http://www.phantom.com/templates/tunez/Sisters%20Of%20Mercy%20-
%20Comfortably
| %20Numb%20(Live%20’00%20Extended%20Cover).mp3
|
|
| <shudder> pretty amusing, but not exactly…ummm….whats the
word?  good? =)

Well fine, be like that, HERE is good:

http://www.phantom.com/templates/tunez/Sex%20Pistols%20-%20My%20Way%20(Cove
r).mp3

patricK

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] support granted
Date: January 24, 2003 at 8:41:04 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 1/21/03 7:28:30 PM, dana@cures-not-wars.org writes:

The NY conference is postponed anyway. What Howard needs is $2500 a
month to run his foundation.

Hi Dana,

While $2,5000.00 per month would be convenient, I have taken a project by
project approach as it appears more practical to me at this time.  As I
indicated the Dora Weiner Foundation’s current active project is to support
an ibogaine presentation at the American Association for the Treatment of
Opioid Dependence (AATOD) that will take place in April, in Washington, DC
<www.ibogaine.org/dc.html>.

The cost of the presentation including research, photographic acquisition and
reproduction and conference expenses are anticipated to be $7,500.00.  This
represents a significant opportunity to present ibogaine information to a
workshop of that usually consists of two hundred to four hundred methadone
patients, counselors, providers and advocates.  There has never been an
opportunity on the part of ibogaine proponents  to make such a presentation
previously.  What makes the presentation most interesting is that it is on a
common point of ibogaine and methadone patients, that is the advantage held
of the early generation of both ibogaine and methadone patients over later
generations of patients.  In each case control and empowerment have been lost
by later generations regardless of the medication used.

The Dora Weiner Foundation web page can be accessed at <www.doraweiner.org>.
Donations of greater than $500.00 which be acknowledged, along with contact
information, in the Ibogaine brochure that will be provided at the workshop
to be held on Tuesday, April 15th.  The workshop title is “Medication
Assisted Treatment in Different Practice Settings.”  My specific presentation
within that workshop is “Methadone and Ibogaine:  A comparison of Patient
Status and Advocacy Issues”.

Tax deductible donations in US dollars  in the form of checks or money orders
drawn on US banks should be written to the name of Dora Weiner Foundation and
sent to:

Dora Weiner Foundation
46 Oxford Place
Staten Island, NY 10301
USA

If you want to transfer funds directly to the DWF account please contact me
off list at <dwf123@earthlink.net>.

If you are an ibogaine proponent and want ibogaine information to be provided
to a targeted methadone audience, then support this Dora Weiner Foundation
project.  This presentation is concurrently supported by the National
Alliance of Methadone Advocates.

Thanks

Howard

Howard S. Lotsof
President
Dora Weiner Foundation
45 Oxford Place
Staten Island, NY 10301
tel, 718 442-2754
fax, 718 442-1957
email dwf123@earthlink.com
http://www.doraweiner.org

From: jfreed1 <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] pAging Dr. OctaGon
Date: January 24, 2003 at 5:22:05 PM EST
To: ibogaine <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

===== Original Message From crownofthorns@hushmail.com =====
Bro, saying this is terrible doesnt begin to do it justice. its awful. it may
be the worst thing anyone has ever recorded and this is coming from me who
used to listen to the dead kennedys. I never knew the sex pistols totally
ruined a frank sinatra song. he’s tone deaf, he cant sing they cant play the
instruments. it sucks so hard…………………………..

for the record, i think that was a sid vicious solo attempt, not the actual
sex pistols. sid never really played in the sex pistols; the bass on
“nevermind the bollocks” was glen matlock. arguably, sid played bass during
the shows. whether or not it can actually be considered “playing” is a matter
up for debate. some of the time, they just had a tape back up for him.

in a nutshell, sid was mostly there for his image.

now the dead kennedys were actually talented musicians, at least in my
opinion. there’s not a whole lot of other punk out there that’s as intricately
orchaestrated, and east bay ray had some really great guitar riffs.


League of Surrealistic Discord Records — www.lsdrecords.com

From: jfreed1 <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Citizen Patrick Goes to Washington
Date: January 24, 2003 at 5:05:15 PM EST
To: ibogaine <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

===== Original Message From “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> =====
On [Tue, Jan 21, 2003 at 08:29:24PM -0800], [MARC] wrote:

| You’ll get more attention AND votes if you run as a Marijuana Party
| candidate, and more media. Libertarians make excellent Marijuana Party
| candidates. Every subject/issue can be effectively associated with the war
| on marijuana & drugs. As a Libertarian, you need to find voters who agree
| with all aspects of a platform, with a Marijuana Party candidate, its
| basically you agree or don’t agree (and if they agree, what are they gonna
| do about it!). Twelve states have a Marijuana Party and it will be 50
states
| by mid year.
|
| Marc Emery

Ya know…  I can’t find any fault with what you just said (or wrote
yesterday)…  Really, why not.  If not me, then who?  There doesn’t seem
to be an LSD party (other than the one Saint Hofmann is having, YOU GO
DUDE!)

fuckin a!  patrick, if you do ever decide to run for anything, can i be on
your staff? =)


League of Surrealistic Discord Records — www.lsdrecords.com

From: jfreed1 <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] pAging Dr. OctaGon
Date: January 24, 2003 at 5:03:45 PM EST
To: ibogaine <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.phantom.com/templates/tunez/Sisters%20Of%20Mercy%20-%20Comfortably
| %20Numb%20(Live%20’00%20Extended%20Cover).mp3
|
|
| <shudder> pretty amusing, but not exactly…ummm….whats the word?  good?
=)

Well fine, be like that, HERE is good:

http://www.phantom.com/templates/tunez/Sex%20Pistols%20-%20My%20Way%20(Cover)
.mp3

ehehe….that’s one of my favourite’s =)

i also liked gary oldman’s rendition of it in sid and nancy…they had some
excellent casting for that movie. somewhere i read that john lydon said he
wished he played the part of johnny rotten as well as the guy in the film did


League of Surrealistic Discord Records — www.lsdrecords.com

From: jfreed1 <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] question for anyone who can answer….
Date: January 24, 2003 at 3:50:16 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

===== Original Message From A J Dietterle <ajdietterle@dccnet.com> =====
on 1/23/03 3:09 PM, preston peet at ptpeet@nyc.rr.com wrote:

Hi all,
Someone asked me today if methadone goes bad, or if it expires, and I
honestly don’t know the answer, nor could I find it online.
Anyone know what the shelf life of methadone is?

according to http://www.drugtext.org/library/books/methadone/section3.htm ,
methadone oral suspension has a shelf life of 36 months…


League of Surrealistic Discord Records — www.lsdrecords.com

From: crownofthorns@hushmail.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] pAging Dr. OctaGon
Date: January 24, 2003 at 2:29:13 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Bro, saying this is terrible doesnt begin to do it justice. its awful. it may be the worst thing anyone has ever recorded and this is coming from me who used to listen to the dead kennedys. I never knew the sex pistols totally ruined a frank sinatra song. he’s tone deaf, he cant sing they cant play the instruments. it sucks so hard…………………………..

Thats pretty good.

I’m listening to it for the 2nd time now. thanks!

Peace out,
Curtis

On Fri, 24 Jan 2003 10:25:58 -0800 “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> wrote:
On [Fri, Jan 24, 2003 at 01:31:22PM -0500], [jfreed1] wrote:
| >===== Original Message From “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
=====
| >On [Tue, Jan 21, 2003 at 06:38:44PM -0800], [Gamma] wrote:
| >
| >| — “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> wrote:
| >| > On [Tue, Jan 21, 2003 at 07:55:50AM -0800], [Gamma] wrote:
| >| >
| >| > | is there anybody out there?
| >| >
| >| > Is there anybody in there…?  Just nod if you can hear me.
| >|
| >| Justa little PinPricK…
| >
| >http://www.phantom.com/templates/tunez/Sisters%20Of%20Mercy%20-
%20Comfortably
| %20Numb%20(Live%20’00%20Extended%20Cover).mp3
|
|
| <shudder> pretty amusing, but not exactly…ummm….whats the
word?  good? =)

Well fine, be like that, HERE is good:

patricK

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Big $$$ to be made with the HushMail Affiliate Program:
https://www.hushmail.com/about.php?subloc=affiliate&l=427

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Citizen Patrick Goes to Washington
Date: January 24, 2003 at 1:32:31 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Tue, Jan 21, 2003 at 08:29:24PM -0800], [MARC] wrote:

| You’ll get more attention AND votes if you run as a Marijuana Party
| candidate, and more media. Libertarians make excellent Marijuana Party
| candidates. Every subject/issue can be effectively associated with the war
| on marijuana & drugs. As a Libertarian, you need to find voters who agree
| with all aspects of a platform, with a Marijuana Party candidate, its
| basically you agree or don’t agree (and if they agree, what are they gonna
| do about it!). Twelve states have a Marijuana Party and it will be 50 states
| by mid year.
|
| Marc Emery

Ya know…  I can’t find any fault with what you just said (or wrote
yesterday)…  Really, why not.  If not me, then who?  There doesn’t seem
to be an LSD party (other than the one Saint Hofmann is having, YOU GO
DUDE!)

Patrick

| —– Original Message —–
| From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
| To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
| Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 7:48 PM
| Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Star Dec. 24 (one day before JAMA)
|
|
| > On [Tue, Jan 21, 2003 at 07:56:49PM -0800], [crownofthorns@hushmail.com]
| wrote:
| >
| > | Bro, your writing is amazing but usually in a different way, this just
| > | blew me away. Talk about seeing all sides.
| > |
| > | When do you run for office? 😉
| >
| > Very soon!  I’ll be running on the, “I love guns, I hate taxes, please
| > feel free to take the ‘War on Drugs’ and stuff it up your ass,” platform.
| > By which I mean to say, Libertarian Party ticket.
| >
| > Since there appears to be a critical shortage of rich yippies, and nobody
| > in the Libertarian Party ever gets elected to anything except Executive
| > Special Assistant to the Office of School Crossing Guards; I will never
| > actually win.  But it’s certainly something to do.
| >
| > I absolutely believe that America is the *very greatest* nation in the
| > United States <waving flag>.  And being an American is all about complete
| > idiots, with no common sense whatsoever, pursuing ill-conceived and really
| > stupid ideas.
| >
| > And I’m not just saying that, I really mean it.
| >
| > God bless us all, and vote for me, because I promise to make absolutely
| > everything perfect forever.  If not longer.
| >
| > Patrick
| >
| > Thas’ it, Vox is no longer on fire for the most part, and I’m outta here
| > for the night, buh-bye.
| >
| >
| >
|
|

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] pAging Dr. OctaGon
Date: January 24, 2003 at 1:40:20 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

never mind, it works just fine. sorry
—– Original Message —–
From: jfreed1
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 1:31 PM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] pAging Dr. OctaGon

>===== Original Message From “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> =====
>On [Tue, Jan 21, 2003 at 06:38:44PM -0800], [Gamma] wrote:
>
>| — “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> wrote:
>| > On [Tue, Jan 21, 2003 at 07:55:50AM -0800], [Gamma] wrote:
>| >
>| > | is there anybody out there?
>| >
>| > Is there anybody in there…?  Just nod if you can hear me.
>|
>| Justa little PinPricK…
>
>http://www.phantom.com/templates/tunez/Sisters%20Of%20Mercy%20-%20Comfortably
%20Numb%20(Live%20’00%20Extended%20Cover).mp3

<shudder> pretty amusing, but not exactly…ummm….whats the word?  good? =)

they do a pretty kick ass version of the stones’ “gimme shelter” though…


League of Surrealistic Discord Records — www.lsdrecords.com

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] pAging Dr. OctaGon
Date: January 24, 2003 at 1:25:58 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Fri, Jan 24, 2003 at 01:31:22PM -0500], [jfreed1] wrote:
| >===== Original Message From “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> =====
| >On [Tue, Jan 21, 2003 at 06:38:44PM -0800], [Gamma] wrote:
| >
| >| — “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> wrote:
| >| > On [Tue, Jan 21, 2003 at 07:55:50AM -0800], [Gamma] wrote:
| >| >
| >| > | is there anybody out there?
| >| >
| >| > Is there anybody in there…?  Just nod if you can hear me.
| >|
| >| Justa little PinPricK…
| >
| >http://www.phantom.com/templates/tunez/Sisters%20Of%20Mercy%20-%20Comfortably
| %20Numb%20(Live%20’00%20Extended%20Cover).mp3
|
|
| <shudder> pretty amusing, but not exactly…ummm….whats the word?  good? =)

Well fine, be like that, HERE is good:

patricK

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] pAging Dr. OctaGon
Date: January 24, 2003 at 1:38:41 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

resend this link please, to the Comfortably Numb tune. The one below doesn’t seem to work.
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: jfreed1
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 1:31 PM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] pAging Dr. OctaGon

>===== Original Message From “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> =====
>On [Tue, Jan 21, 2003 at 06:38:44PM -0800], [Gamma] wrote:
>
>| — “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> wrote:
>| > On [Tue, Jan 21, 2003 at 07:55:50AM -0800], [Gamma] wrote:
>| >
>| > | is there anybody out there?
>| >
>| > Is there anybody in there…?  Just nod if you can hear me.
>|
>| Justa little PinPricK…
>
>http://www.phantom.com/templates/tunez/Sisters%20Of%20Mercy%20-%20Comfortably
%20Numb%20(Live%20’00%20Extended%20Cover).mp3

<shudder> pretty amusing, but not exactly…ummm….whats the word?  good? =)

they do a pretty kick ass version of the stones’ “gimme shelter” though…


League of Surrealistic Discord Records — www.lsdrecords.com

From: jfreed1 <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] pAging Dr. OctaGon
Date: January 24, 2003 at 1:31:22 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

===== Original Message From “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> =====
On [Tue, Jan 21, 2003 at 06:38:44PM -0800], [Gamma] wrote:

| — “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> wrote:
| > On [Tue, Jan 21, 2003 at 07:55:50AM -0800], [Gamma] wrote:
| >
| > | is there anybody out there?
| >
| > Is there anybody in there…?  Just nod if you can hear me.
|
| Justa little PinPricK…

http://www.phantom.com/templates/tunez/Sisters%20Of%20Mercy%20-%20Comfortably
%20Numb%20(Live%20’00%20Extended%20Cover).mp3

<shudder> pretty amusing, but not exactly…ummm….whats the word?  good? =)

they do a pretty kick ass version of the stones’ “gimme shelter” though…


League of Surrealistic Discord Records — www.lsdrecords.com

From: Run Drugs Out of Town Run <rundrugsoutoftownrun@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Another Super Bowl AD
Date: January 24, 2003 at 7:34:47 AM EST
To: drugwar@mindvox.com
Cc: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I have received numerous emails about the upcoming Super Bowl ads from both sides and then I found this one worth sharing with everyone.  https://www.moveon.org/superbowl/
MoveOn has a list of signatures protesting George “Wag the dog” Bush’s push to war that has grown to over 300,000 in less than a month (8,000 pages of signatures in California alone).  I would encourage anyone to add their name to that list despite the fact that it is exactly where our government wants you to be focused.  I would also encourage you to write and call your representatives to find out what happened to the sixty day report the president was supposed to file with congress in order to get their support for a war.  While you are at it ask what happened to Dick Cheney’s court problems related to his invovlement with energy corporations and what happened to the fraud at Enron and WorldCom.

Dr. Bill Gallagher, DC
Executive Director
Run Drugs Out of Town Run, Inc.
PO Box 25152
Scottsdale, AZ 85255
480-513-3909
http://rundrugsoutoftownrun.org
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] question for anyone who can answer….
Date: January 24, 2003 at 10:07:36 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks to everyone who answered.
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Rick Venglarcik
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 8:59 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] question for anyone who can answer….

I am not sure of the length of time for Oral Concentrate due to a lack
of manufacture date on the bottle.  Ours were received 12/13/02 and list
the expiration date as 10/2004…so I’d surmise two years for
Mallinckrodt Methadose Oral Concentrate (1 liter).

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

>>> HSLotsof@aol.com 01/23/03 10:43PM >>>

In a message dated 1/23/03 6:13:14 PM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

>    Someone asked me today if methadone goes bad, or if it expires,
and
>I honestly don’t know the answer, nor could I find it online.
>
>    Anyone know what the shelf life of methadone is?

The shelf life of methadone tablets is three years.  I have no
information on
the manufactured liquid.  Tablets dissolved in orange juice or beverage
face
the normal spoilage of such drinks unless frozen I would think.

Howard
www.ibogaine.org
www.methadone.org

From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Brought to you from the Inventors of Methadone
Date: January 24, 2003 at 10:08:45 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

unquestionably Methadone saved my life in the mid-90’s. But this is interesting
history…

http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/Holocaust/farben.html

__________________________________________________
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From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] question for anyone who can answer….
Date: January 24, 2003 at 8:59:34 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I am not sure of the length of time for Oral Concentrate due to a lack
of manufacture date on the bottle.  Ours were received 12/13/02 and list
the expiration date as 10/2004…so I’d surmise two years for
Mallinckrodt Methadose Oral Concentrate (1 liter).

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

HSLotsof@aol.com 01/23/03 10:43PM >>>

In a message dated 1/23/03 6:13:14 PM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

Someone asked me today if methadone goes bad, or if it expires,
and
I honestly don’t know the answer, nor could I find it online.

Anyone know what the shelf life of methadone is?

The shelf life of methadone tablets is three years.  I have no
information on
the manufactured liquid.  Tablets dissolved in orange juice or beverage
face
the normal spoilage of such drinks unless frozen I would think.

Howard
www.ibogaine.org
www.methadone.org

From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Turning Curious Teens Into Crackheads
Date: January 23, 2003 at 11:23:02 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— Randy Hencken <randyhencken@hotmail.com> wrote:
Gamma,

Where do you surf?

Randy

Hawaii

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] question for anyone who can answer….
Date: January 23, 2003 at 10:43:40 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 1/23/03 6:13:14 PM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

Someone asked me today if methadone goes bad, or if it expires, and
I honestly don’t know the answer, nor could I find it online.

Anyone know what the shelf life of methadone is?

The shelf life of methadone tablets is three years.  I have no information on
the manufactured liquid.  Tablets dissolved in orange juice or beverage face
the normal spoilage of such drinks unless frozen I would think.

Howard
www.ibogaine.org
www.methadone.org

From: “Randy Hencken” <randyhencken@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Turning Curious Teens Into Crackheads
Date: January 23, 2003 at 10:00:49 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Gamma,

Where do you surf?

Randy

From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Turning Curious Teens Into Crackheads
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 18:49:01 -0800 (PST)

— Bernard C Phifer <chimp@zwallet.com> wrote:
>  I know exactly what you mean. I go to meetings sometimes and i fucked up and
> told them i was on methadone. I was shunned,looked down upon and told i was
> still using. NA here in North Carolina was started by a bunch of people who
> were on methadone. Now it seems like most of the people there never even used
> dope (heroin). It mostly consists of crack heads and pot smoking teenagers.
> It is very clicky and there is a big conform vibe. If you don’t dress like us
> listen to our music and get your tounge pierced we wont accept you into the
> circle. I just don’t get anything out of it

Thus is the reality of cults. I recently was rudely awoken to this very fact
after leaning heavily on meetings for a few years.

I prefer Surfing.

-Gamma

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
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_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*  http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Turning Curious Teens Into Crackheads
Date: January 23, 2003 at 9:49:01 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— Bernard C Phifer <chimp@zwallet.com> wrote:
I know exactly what you mean. I go to meetings sometimes and i fucked up and
told them i was on methadone. I was shunned,looked down upon and told i was
still using. NA here in North Carolina was started by a bunch of people who
were on methadone. Now it seems like most of the people there never even used
dope (heroin). It mostly consists of crack heads and pot smoking teenagers.
It is very clicky and there is a big conform vibe. If you don’t dress like us
listen to our music and get your tounge pierced we wont accept you into the
circle. I just don’t get anything out of it

Thus is the reality of cults. I recently was rudely awoken to this very fact
after leaning heavily on meetings for a few years.

I prefer Surfing.

-Gamma

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
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From: Eaquinet@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] question for anyone who can answer….
Date: January 23, 2003 at 9:08:19 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi, regarding shelf life of methadone. I’d say that it, like all manufactured drugs, will have an expiration date attached to every batch. However, without having the original manufacturer’s bottle/container one wouldn’t know what that date was. Of course most drugs do “last” longer than the official expiration date would imply, but if so and how much longer would vary from drug to drug. eliana

From: A J Dietterle <ajdietterle@dccnet.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] question for anyone who can answer….
Date: January 23, 2003 at 6:49:25 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

on 1/23/03 3:09 PM, preston peet at ptpeet@nyc.rr.com wrote:

Hi all,
Someone asked me today if methadone goes bad, or if it expires, and I honestly don’t know the answer, nor could I find it online.
Anyone know what the shelf life of methadone is?

Peace,
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor at Large High Times mag/.com
“Prohibition creates an irresistibly lucrative
opportunity for entrepreneurs willing to operate
in illicit business. It is the policy
of idealists who cannot appreciate that the use
of drugs often reflects other sets of human
ideals: human perfectibility, the yearning
for a perfect moment, the peace that comes
>from oblivion.” Richard Davenport-Hines

Well hello there. Thanks for your email. We are not sure of the shelflife of Methadone.

From: A J Dietterle <ajdietterle@dccnet.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] question for anyone who can answer….
Date: January 23, 2003 at 6:44:58 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

on 1/23/03 3:09 PM, preston peet at ptpeet@nyc.rr.com wrote:

Hi all,
Someone asked me today if methadone goes bad, or if it expires, and I honestly don’t know the answer, nor could I find it online.
Anyone know what the shelf life of methadone is?

Peace,
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor at Large High Times mag/.com
“Prohibition creates an irresistibly lucrative
opportunity for entrepreneurs willing to operate
in illicit business. It is the policy
of idealists who cannot appreciate that the use
of drugs often reflects other sets of human
ideals: human perfectibility, the yearning
for a perfect moment, the peace that comes
>from oblivion.” Richard Davenport-Hines

Thanks for your email but alas we do not know the answer. Talk to you soon!

Terry D

From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] question for anyone who can answer….
Date: January 23, 2003 at 6:41:54 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

no, but all the methadonians I have known [including myself] always kept theirs
in the fridge for longer life-span

-gamma

— preston peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Hi all,
Someone asked me today if methadone goes bad, or if it expires, and I
honestly don’t know the answer, nor could I find it online.
Anyone know what the shelf life of methadone is?

Peace,
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor at Large High Times mag/.com
“Prohibition creates an irresistibly lucrative
opportunity for entrepreneurs willing to operate
in illicit business. It is the policy
of idealists who cannot appreciate that the use
of drugs often reflects other sets of human
ideals: human perfectibility, the yearning
for a perfect moment, the peace that comes
from oblivion.” Richard Davenport-Hines

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] question for anyone who can answer….
Date: January 23, 2003 at 6:09:28 PM EST
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Cc: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi all,
Someone asked me today if methadone goes bad, or if it expires, and I honestly don’t know the answer, nor could I find it online.
Anyone know what the shelf life of methadone is?

Peace,
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor at Large High Times mag/.com
“Prohibition creates an irresistibly lucrative
opportunity for entrepreneurs willing to operate
in illicit business. It is the policy
of idealists who cannot appreciate that the use
of drugs often reflects other sets of human
ideals: human perfectibility, the yearning
for a perfect moment, the peace that comes
from oblivion.” Richard Davenport-Hines

From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] a field report
Date: January 23, 2003 at 2:14:27 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

From a friend of a friend.

Took 400mgs Ibogaine hcl at 9:45am and laid down

After 40 minutes or so I started having slight visuals and mild physical
trembling.

Somewhere around the 1 hour mark I felt the ibo surge through my body like an
expanding energetic doughnut, racing through every cell in my body. Then the
rocking and spinning began. Trying to control that was useless so I gave in to
it, reluctantly. I was surprised at the strength of the onset.

I started traveling through space, with stars blurring past me at tremendous
speed. I realized I was in a spiraling cosmic tube, traveling galactic
distances, deep into the purple. It occurred to me I was traveling through the
tube that connects me to the god source, and I could see through the tube’s
transparent walls that there were other tubes, and there were other beings
making the same journey. On and on I sped while my physical body back on earth
was pinned to the bed with incredible gravity.

And then I saw it.

The god head.

The most brilliant sphere of pure energy and light, and emanating from it were
the spiral tubes that connect to all living beings. The tube I was in. The
piece of God that I represent as a child of the light.

That vision faded but I could still sense my rapid pace, and the horrific
visions started. Great rings of fire and battlefields and nuclear war raged on
and on. I was experiencing the collective conscience of humanities struggle
with money, greed and war. Planets ravaged by smoke and flame and strange
winged beasts that breath sulfurous fumes and the fear, the deepest darkest
fear pierced me to my core. Not a Good Sign.

I watched as the same story repeated itself over and over, with the people in
power spreading fear and chaos to keep us in control, cowering in the corner
feeding on drugs and materialism. I knew from the deepest seat of my soul that
I was not of that cast, the reptilian war mongers. I’ve played the victim role,
feeding on the hype and sensationalism that pollutes the airwaves of the great
media mogul.

Exhaustingly I watched as battles waged and the earth glowed with radioactivity
and toxic waste. The great Dark Religion of wealth and greed consumed every
green inch of the earth and I cowered in its darkness.

My deepest feelings from child hood came forward; the feeling of never being
safe from my father’s rage and my mothers complacency and the constant threat
through the 70’s and 80’s of eminent nuclear war all came bubbling to the
surface.

I began to retch somewhere around the 3 hour mark, it was very painful and I
had the dry heaves. I decided I don’t like Ibogaine very much, I felt horrible.
My first two experiences were so different, I felt as though the ibo spirit
really wanted to rub my face in the shit this time, to see clearly what is
happening with humanity, how it all is coming to a head, how the petro-chemical
companies run the government and the economy, and how the U.S.’s have turned
into the worst of the worlds greed and war mongers.

This waged on for many hours, finally after 11-12 hours it began to pass, but
came back in small pulses, more war and destruction. I managed to eat about 3
grapes. Any task I attempted took long minutes of pondering, to lift a finger
summoned all the will power I could manage. After showering and changing
clothes I felt slightly refreshed, but completely weak from the experience. I
knew it was over, thank god it was short lived but man was it intense for such
a small dose. A friend pointed out the cleansing I had done earlier in the week
probably made me extra sensitive to the medicine. Later somewhere around 11pm I
took a sleeping aid and dosed off for a few hours. All in all I managed to get
about 6 hours sleep.

This morning I feel pretty vulnerable and emotional, but good. I discussed my
experience with someone who has been there and back and we talked about the
balance between the dark side and the light side, and how important it is to
stay in the light and to have humor and above all to love and be loved.

I‘m not feeling any real withdrawal from the pills, I was taking anywhere
between 20-40mgs of oxycodone and 1,000mgs of Soma for the past month or so. I
don’t have a desire to take the pills other than for the continuing pain in my
neck and head that prompted me to get a prescription in the first place. I am
going to try something called wobenzyme for the pain.

Ibogaine is an excellent laxative.

I would be happy not to take Ibogaine for another five years. (I last took it
in Feb 1998 for opiod addiction)

Its strange being in a foriegn country, so far from home, but I travel home
soon.

~z

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From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] bad science, and other stories
Date: January 23, 2003 at 12:11:24 PM EST
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Cc: “efficacy” <efficacy@email.msn.com>, <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, “CRRH” <restore@crrh.org>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi all,
Thought I’d drop everyone a line, alerting you all to the report from
Doug McVay on the recent report asserting proof of the “marijuana is a
gateway to hard drug use” myth, as well as to 2 stories about freedom of
speech issues on both East and West coasts. There’s also a new campaign
on-going in California urging compassion (and simple common sense) instead
of imprisonment, and an article about NY’s hearings yesterday on the topic
of medical marijuana.
Peace,
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor at Large High Times mag/.com
“Prohibition creates an irresistibly lucrative
opportunity for entrepreneurs willing to operate
in illicit business. It is the policy
of idealists who cannot appreciate that the use
of drugs often reflects other sets of human
ideals: human perfectibility, the yearning
for a perfect moment, the peace that comes
from oblivion.” Richard Davenport-Hines

Trust But Verify (report on recent report that pot leads to hard drug abuse)
http://www.drugwar.com/mcvayverify.shtm

An American Tragedy (Forchion update- poor guy)
http://www.drugwar.com/forchionshanley1.shtm

Gag Order Fight Draws First-Amendment Expert to Rosenthal Defense (The
prosecutor is going after Ed, trying to make sure he, his family and his
attorneys are not to be allowed to talk to the press until after the trial
is over- what bullshit, as my editor’s note at the top of this points out.)
http://www.drugwar.com/rosenthalgag.shtm

Medical marijuana groups posting roadside billboards
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2003/01/22/stat
e1816EST0139.DTL

Advocates for the ill ask lawmakers to legalize medical marijuana (NY
hearings yesterday)
http://boston.com/dailynews/022/region/Advocates_for_the_ill_ask_lawm:.shtml

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] sick treatment
Date: January 23, 2003 at 5:01:00 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>I really thought people had moved on in civilisation and
humane care and resources
without resorting to that sort of thing.  In fact I’m so gob-smacked its
hard to put into words.  What do you do about that sort of treatment cos
surely it should be banned ???   Allison<

Uh, Allison, besides the fact that this sort of “treatment” is still accepted and even court ordered in many cases here in the land of the free, the Entire War On Some Drugs and Users should be banned.
I’m often so utterly gob-smacked, (Love that phrase) by the whole thing that I have trouble with the words.;-((
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Alison Senepart
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 4:10 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] sick treatment

Reading your news was like reading something from way back in the dark ages.
Almost sounded like the days of burning witches at the stake etc.  That is
the most disgusting treatment for any illness, disease or addiction that I
have heard of.   And if I understood correctly this was a state authorised
programe??
Is that correct??   I really thought people had moved on in civilisation and
humane care and resources
without resorting to that sort of thing.  In fact I’m so gob-smacked its
hard to put into words.  What do you do about that sort of treatment cos
surely it should be banned ???   Allison
—–Original Message—–
From: bernard phifer <slack@hipplanet.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Date: Thursday, 23 January 2003 06:39
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] sick treatment

>man i can totally relate to this i was in delancey street for two years  12
hr 72 hr encounter sessions there was food to eat but you couldn’t go to
sleep they had these ice water squirt bottles and after about 50 hours you
start to hallucinate thats when they start turning out the lights bringing
coffins in the room with candles on them talking about the people that have
died in your life they yell and scream at you call you names all in the name
of breaking down your barriers and getting to the reason you were using
drugs i guess it is the shock treatment or shock value of trying to bring
someone who othgerwise hasn’t been in touch with their feeling into contact
with them when i was there i was busted for selling lsd on dead tour i was
court ordered to go there it was a very strange experience for me
>
>                                  thanx B
>
>— Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org> wrote:
>>Author: Maia Szalavitz
>>         Bookmark: http://www.mapinc.org/rehab.htm (Treatment)
>>
>>         THE BIG IDEA: SICK TREATMENT
>>
>>         When Drug Counselors Attack.
>>
>>         Gloria Holmes didn’t need any more hassles.  A working,
>>36-year-old mother of three, she had been in and out of drug
>>treatment for
>>         years.  Following a 2001 suicide attempt serious enough to
>>land her in Columbia-Presbyterian Hospital for a week, doctors had
>>         given her a prescription for the antidepressant Paxil.
>>Arrested for drug possession not long after that, she was facing
>>prison time.
>>
>>         Holmes asked to be sent to a women-only treatment program.
>>Instead, in the fall of 2001, the city Office of Special Narcotics’
>>Drug
>>         Treatment Alternatives to Prison Program sent her to a co-ed
>>rehab residence run by the Veritas Therapeutic Community in
>>         Barryville, New York.  There, according to Holmes, she was
>>forced to stop taking Paxil.  ( Veritas says its general policy is to
>>permit
>>         antidepressants.  )
>>
>>         Adding to her misery, her treatment often consisted of being
>>bullied and humiliated by her counselors.  “They insult you all the
>>         time,” says Holmes.  Once, she says, a staff member told her,
>>”If I was your husband, I would put you in chains and tie you up and
>>         throw you out the window.”
>>
>>         The final straw came as she was sitting outside at a picnic
>>table, enjoying the countryside.  A counselor snuck up behind her and
>>         dumped a five-gallon bucket–which had been used as an
>>ashtray and was full of cigarette butts–over her head, and banged it
>>three
>>         or four times.  “He said he did it as a joke,” she says.  “He
>>was laughing.  But I was crying.”
>>
>>         Jurrant Middleton, the program director at Veritas in
>>Barryville, says what happened to Holmes was no big deal.  “I am
>>familiar with
>>         this incident, and think that it was blown out of
>>proportion,” he told City Limits.  “It was inappropriate, it was
>>dealt with and the
>>         counselor was disciplined.”
>>
>>         But Holmes says the incident made her feel worthless.  “She
>>felt that she was physically abused, violated tremendously and made a
>>         mockery of,” says her husband, John Holmes, a former cocaine
>>and heroin addict now training to be an addictions counselor.  “It
>>         certainly didn’t do anything for her self-esteem.  She felt
>>she could no longer take it, and she left.” Holmes dropped out of the
>>         program, violating the conditions of her sentence, and
>>started smoking crack again.  Now she is upstate, serving three to
>>six, as a
>>         result of her failure in rehab.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>         Imagine if physicians could justify being abusive, arrogant
>>and condescending by arguing that it improves patient health.  Imagine
>>         that these professionals could decide not to use chemotherapy
>>for cancer, for example, because they “don’t believe in it,” despite
>>         overwhelming research data.  That’s what addiction care has
>>been like for the last half-century.  To this day, there’s a huge gap
>>         between clinical psychiatric knowledge and the way drug
>>treatment actually goes down.
>>
>>         Clinical research shows that, like anyone else,
>>addicts–particularly women and the mentally ill–respond better to
>>empathetic
>>         treatment than to attacks or humiliation.  The University of
>>New Mexico’s William Miller, for example, has demonstrated that
>>         patients are less likely to drop out and relapse if they have
>>counselors who are compassionate, and not confrontational.
>>
>>         Yet for years, the sort of “care” Gloria Holmes received has
>>been par for the course in addiction treatment.  Many providers
>>believe
>>         that addicts needed to be “broken down” and then
>>re-socialized, and that insults, humiliation and degrading treatment
>>aid this
>>         process.  And while the National Institute on Drug Abuse has
>>shown that medications like antidepressants aid recovery, a large
>>         proportion of rehab programs still routinely deny addicts
>>standard psychiatric medications on the premise that they could lead
>>back
>>         to addiction.
>>
>>         Recently, a number of federal, state and local government
>>initiatives have begun trying to reform drug treatment, through both
>>         regulations and research.  But they’ll have to overcome a
>>deeply entrenched legacy of anti-science and even anti-addict
>>ideology.
>>
>>         Until very recently, abusive treatment was almost universally
>>praised.  A 1993 book by the founder of the Daytop treatment
>>         network, Monsignor William O’Brien, calls addicts “babies”
>>and “stupid,” and says that addiction treatment “has to be harsh,” and
>>         that “being too gentle…doesn’t do anybody any good.”
>>
>>         John Holmes, who works at an agency that provides housing for
>>former addicts, doesn’t think his wife’s experience was unique.
>>         “I’ve heard about people who were made to wear dunce hats or
>>sit in a corner for hours, about men dressed as women, or made to
>>         wear diapers,” says Holmes.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>         These ideas about how addicts should be treated pervade
>>almost every type of addiction care.  But they have their roots in one
>>         specific type of treatment: therapeutic communities, often
>>called “TCs,” like the one that Gloria Holmes attended.
>>
>>         Therapeutic communities began in the late 1950s, after
>>physicians and psychiatrists essentially decided that addiction was
>>         untreatable.  While some doctors continued to try, the
>>treatment of addicts and alcoholics became a backwater of the medical
>>         profession, populated largely by profiteers and quacks with
>>little concern about and no financial interest in determining whether
>>         their treatment actually worked.
>>
>>         Alcoholics Anonymous, developed by two alcoholics in the
>>1930’s, offered some hope to excessive drinkers.  Based on the idea
>>         that one alcoholic could help another, it showed the public
>>that alcoholism–and later other addictions via copycat 12-step
>>programs
>>         like Narcotics Anonymous–weren’t always hopeless conditions.
>>
>>         As “the program” grew, doctors and psychologists began to
>>offer residential treatment to help initiate people into self-help.
>>The first
>>         of these, Pioneer House, opened in Minnesota in 1958 and
>>became the model for modern programs like Hazelden and Betty Ford.
>>
>>         That same year, AA member Chuck Dederich opened a small
>>storefront in Santa Monica and began treating heroin addicts.  He
>>         found that living in a dedicated community, where addicts
>>forced each other to look at their problems, could help some stay away
>>         from drugs.  Synanon–named after the way one resident
>>mispronounced “seminar”–became the first American therapeutic
>>         community, spawning countless imitators.
>>
>>         Two of them, Phoenix House and Daytop ( both based in New
>>York ), are now the country’s largest providers of addiction
>>         treatment.
>>
>>         Unfortunately, Synanon’s program became increasingly bizarre
>>over time, eventually devolving into a violent cult.  After putting a
>>         rattlesnake in the mailbox of an attorney who was suing
>>Synanon, Dederich and several other members were ultimately convicted
>>of
>>         conspiracy to commit murder.
>>
>>         Synanon is gone now, but its methods live on.  Before Synanon
>>imploded, mainstream programs picked up many of its methods,
>>         including “marathon” therapy sessions lasting days without
>>breaks for sleep or food, brutal emotional confrontation, humiliating
>>         punishments–such as being dressed as a bum and wearing a
>>sign saying “I am an asshole”–and other techniques aimed at
>>         dehumanizing and degrading participants.
>>
>>         Like fraternity initiations, this “tough love” tradition is
>>highly resistant to change, often because many TC staffers are
>>graduates
>>         themselves.  A large proportion of graduates believe that
>>what was done to them was necessary to their recovery.  They come into
>>         the field with an evangelical urge to spread the word–and
>>some, unfortunately, relish the chance to do unto others as others had
>>         done unto them.
>>
>>         As a result, they often not only disregard science as being
>>irrelevant to what they do, but also tend to view medications and more
>>         humane treatments as inimical to recovery.
>>
>>         “Remember that Synanon and TCs started as an anti-psychiatry,
>>anti-medication movement, because those things weren’t doing
>>         anybody any good,” says Jim Dahl, director of program
>>planning for Phoenix House.  “To have the same people embrace
>>research,
>>         it’s a total culture clash.”
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>         In the last few years, state and federal governments have
>>tried to bring research into practice.  The National Institute on Drug
>>         Abuse’s Clinical Trials Network, which has outposts at NYU
>>and Columbia, runs trials of research-based treatments in community
>>         programs, in the hope that such collaboration will encourage
>>providers to adopt effective new methods.
>>
>>         Similar work is also being done by the federal Center for
>>Substance Abuse Treatment.  New York State’s Office of Alcohol and
>>         Substance Abuse Services uses a federally funded network to
>>bring together local providers and researchers for meetings and
>>         networking.
>>
>>         Kevin Wadalavage, vice president of the Outreach Project,
>>which runs a variety of treatment programs as well as New York State’s
>>         largest training program for addiction counselors, thinks
>>that ideological barriers are starting to fall.  “The new generation
>>is more
>>         open,” he says.  “I think as we start to understand the
>>disease of addiction as a brain-based phenomenon, we are getting
>>there.
>>
>>         Sometimes people will have a ‘drug-free’ philosophy, but I
>>don’t think it’s as pervasive as people think.”
>>
>>         Nonetheless, even Wadalavage recognizes numerous obstacles to
>>change.  The research projects and collaborations can only exhort
>>         providers to improve care, not force change.  As courts
>>sentence more and more people to rehab as an alternative to prison,
>>patients
>>         have little choice about which program they enter–but they
>>are blamed for it and incarcerated if they “fail” treatment.
>>
>>         And since drug courts provide a steady stream of patients–at
>>least 50 percent of clients, in some residential drug
>>         programs–providers have few incentives to improve their
practices.
>>
>>         There are also practical problems.  Addiction counseling pays
>>little and has high turnover, and many programs don’t require much
>>         training beyond having graduated from a therapeutic community
>>or being a member of a 12-step program.
>>
>>         “The problem is that therapeutic communities are the only
>>modality which really grooms its recovering people to work in the
>>field,”
>>         says Ira Marion, executive director of the Division of
>>Substance Abuse at Albert Einstein College of Medicine, which runs a
>>         methadone program for 4,400 patients.  “TCs now integrate
>>Narcotics Anonymous, which is totally against medication.  Even if you
>>         train such people up the wazoo–and one big issue in the
>>field still is training–they still have their experience and the NA
>>credo in
>>         their gut and in their soul.”
>>
>>         Despite the obstacles, there is definitely a shift underway.
>>”We try to create an environment where if someone says, ‘AA was the
>>         only way for me,’ someone else can say, ‘Well, that didn’t
>>work for me,'” explains Wadalavage.  “Or if someone says, ‘I’m opposed
>>         to methadone’ [someone else can reply], ‘Well, methadone
>>saved my life.'”
>>
>>         Dahl, too, is adamant about abandoning infantilizing
>>techniques.  “That reduces self-esteem, and the self-esteem of most
>>of our
>>         clients is already quite low,” he says.  “We have a manual
>>for operating a TC, and we try to hold [staff] accountable if they do
>>things
>>         like making someone wear bum clothes, put on a dunce hat, etc.”
>>
>>         He acknowledges that the change is not yet complete, however.
>>”Here and there you still do find that old tradition rearing its ugly
>>         head,” Dahl admits.  “A lot of people still carry those toxic
>>methods with them.  It’s very hard to change.  But we’re trying
>>         desperately.”
>>
>>         Note: Maia Szalavitz is a co-author of Recovery Options: The
>>Complete Guide: How You and Your Loved Ones Can Understand
>>         and Treat Alcohol and Other Drug Problems ( Wiley 2000 ).
>
>_____________________________________________________________
>Find out what’s HIP!
>Visit Hip Planet for news, shopping, forums, chatrooms, free personal and
classified ads and much more!
>Get your FREE 20 MB Website or FREE E-MAIL! at HipPlanet now!
>
>It’s all waiting for you, at http://www.hipplanet.com
>
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Ads, 6MB, POP & more! http://www.everyone.net/selectmail?campaign=tag
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>

From: “Alison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] sick treatment
Date: January 23, 2003 at 4:10:01 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Reading your news was like reading something from way back in the dark ages.
Almost sounded like the days of burning witches at the stake etc.  That is
the most disgusting treatment for any illness, disease or addiction that I
have heard of.   And if I understood correctly this was a state authorised
programe??
Is that correct??   I really thought people had moved on in civilisation and
humane care and resources
without resorting to that sort of thing.  In fact I’m so gob-smacked its
hard to put into words.  What do you do about that sort of treatment cos
surely it should be banned ???   Allison
—–Original Message—–
From: bernard phifer <slack@hipplanet.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Date: Thursday, 23 January 2003 06:39
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] sick treatment

man i can totally relate to this i was in delancey street for two years  12
hr 72 hr encounter sessions there was food to eat but you couldn’t go to
sleep they had these ice water squirt bottles and after about 50 hours you
start to hallucinate thats when they start turning out the lights bringing
coffins in the room with candles on them talking about the people that have
died in your life they yell and scream at you call you names all in the name
of breaking down your barriers and getting to the reason you were using
drugs i guess it is the shock treatment or shock value of trying to bring
someone who othgerwise hasn’t been in touch with their feeling into contact
with them when i was there i was busted for selling lsd on dead tour i was
court ordered to go there it was a very strange experience for me

thanx B

— Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org> wrote:
Author: Maia Szalavitz
Bookmark: http://www.mapinc.org/rehab.htm (Treatment)

THE BIG IDEA: SICK TREATMENT

When Drug Counselors Attack.

Gloria Holmes didn’t need any more hassles.  A working,
36-year-old mother of three, she had been in and out of drug
treatment for
years.  Following a 2001 suicide attempt serious enough to
land her in Columbia-Presbyterian Hospital for a week, doctors had
given her a prescription for the antidepressant Paxil.
Arrested for drug possession not long after that, she was facing
prison time.

Holmes asked to be sent to a women-only treatment program.
Instead, in the fall of 2001, the city Office of Special Narcotics’
Drug
Treatment Alternatives to Prison Program sent her to a co-ed
rehab residence run by the Veritas Therapeutic Community in
Barryville, New York.  There, according to Holmes, she was
forced to stop taking Paxil.  ( Veritas says its general policy is to
permit
antidepressants.  )

Adding to her misery, her treatment often consisted of being
bullied and humiliated by her counselors.  “They insult you all the
time,” says Holmes.  Once, she says, a staff member told her,
“If I was your husband, I would put you in chains and tie you up and
throw you out the window.”

The final straw came as she was sitting outside at a picnic
table, enjoying the countryside.  A counselor snuck up behind her and
dumped a five-gallon bucket–which had been used as an
ashtray and was full of cigarette butts–over her head, and banged it
three
or four times.  “He said he did it as a joke,” she says.  “He
was laughing.  But I was crying.”

Jurrant Middleton, the program director at Veritas in
Barryville, says what happened to Holmes was no big deal.  “I am
familiar with
this incident, and think that it was blown out of
proportion,” he told City Limits.  “It was inappropriate, it was
dealt with and the
counselor was disciplined.”

But Holmes says the incident made her feel worthless.  “She
felt that she was physically abused, violated tremendously and made a
mockery of,” says her husband, John Holmes, a former cocaine
and heroin addict now training to be an addictions counselor.  “It
certainly didn’t do anything for her self-esteem.  She felt
she could no longer take it, and she left.” Holmes dropped out of the
program, violating the conditions of her sentence, and
started smoking crack again.  Now she is upstate, serving three to
six, as a
result of her failure in rehab.

Imagine if physicians could justify being abusive, arrogant
and condescending by arguing that it improves patient health.  Imagine
that these professionals could decide not to use chemotherapy
for cancer, for example, because they “don’t believe in it,” despite
overwhelming research data.  That’s what addiction care has
been like for the last half-century.  To this day, there’s a huge gap
between clinical psychiatric knowledge and the way drug
treatment actually goes down.

Clinical research shows that, like anyone else,
addicts–particularly women and the mentally ill–respond better to
empathetic
treatment than to attacks or humiliation.  The University of
New Mexico’s William Miller, for example, has demonstrated that
patients are less likely to drop out and relapse if they have
counselors who are compassionate, and not confrontational.

Yet for years, the sort of “care” Gloria Holmes received has
been par for the course in addiction treatment.  Many providers
believe
that addicts needed to be “broken down” and then
re-socialized, and that insults, humiliation and degrading treatment
aid this
process.  And while the National Institute on Drug Abuse has
shown that medications like antidepressants aid recovery, a large
proportion of rehab programs still routinely deny addicts
standard psychiatric medications on the premise that they could lead
back
to addiction.

Recently, a number of federal, state and local government
initiatives have begun trying to reform drug treatment, through both
regulations and research.  But they’ll have to overcome a
deeply entrenched legacy of anti-science and even anti-addict
ideology.

Until very recently, abusive treatment was almost universally
praised.  A 1993 book by the founder of the Daytop treatment
network, Monsignor William O’Brien, calls addicts “babies”
and “stupid,” and says that addiction treatment “has to be harsh,” and
that “being too gentle…doesn’t do anybody any good.”

John Holmes, who works at an agency that provides housing for
former addicts, doesn’t think his wife’s experience was unique.
“I’ve heard about people who were made to wear dunce hats or
sit in a corner for hours, about men dressed as women, or made to
wear diapers,” says Holmes.

These ideas about how addicts should be treated pervade
almost every type of addiction care.  But they have their roots in one
specific type of treatment: therapeutic communities, often
called “TCs,” like the one that Gloria Holmes attended.

Therapeutic communities began in the late 1950s, after
physicians and psychiatrists essentially decided that addiction was
untreatable.  While some doctors continued to try, the
treatment of addicts and alcoholics became a backwater of the medical
profession, populated largely by profiteers and quacks with
little concern about and no financial interest in determining whether
their treatment actually worked.

Alcoholics Anonymous, developed by two alcoholics in the
1930’s, offered some hope to excessive drinkers.  Based on the idea
that one alcoholic could help another, it showed the public
that alcoholism–and later other addictions via copycat 12-step
programs
like Narcotics Anonymous–weren’t always hopeless conditions.

As “the program” grew, doctors and psychologists began to
offer residential treatment to help initiate people into self-help.
The first
of these, Pioneer House, opened in Minnesota in 1958 and
became the model for modern programs like Hazelden and Betty Ford.

That same year, AA member Chuck Dederich opened a small
storefront in Santa Monica and began treating heroin addicts.  He
found that living in a dedicated community, where addicts
forced each other to look at their problems, could help some stay away
from drugs.  Synanon–named after the way one resident
mispronounced “seminar”–became the first American therapeutic
community, spawning countless imitators.

Two of them, Phoenix House and Daytop ( both based in New
York ), are now the country’s largest providers of addiction
treatment.

Unfortunately, Synanon’s program became increasingly bizarre
over time, eventually devolving into a violent cult.  After putting a
rattlesnake in the mailbox of an attorney who was suing
Synanon, Dederich and several other members were ultimately convicted
of
conspiracy to commit murder.

Synanon is gone now, but its methods live on.  Before Synanon
imploded, mainstream programs picked up many of its methods,
including “marathon” therapy sessions lasting days without
breaks for sleep or food, brutal emotional confrontation, humiliating
punishments–such as being dressed as a bum and wearing a
sign saying “I am an asshole”–and other techniques aimed at
dehumanizing and degrading participants.

Like fraternity initiations, this “tough love” tradition is
highly resistant to change, often because many TC staffers are
graduates
themselves.  A large proportion of graduates believe that
what was done to them was necessary to their recovery.  They come into
the field with an evangelical urge to spread the word–and
some, unfortunately, relish the chance to do unto others as others had
done unto them.

As a result, they often not only disregard science as being
irrelevant to what they do, but also tend to view medications and more
humane treatments as inimical to recovery.

“Remember that Synanon and TCs started as an anti-psychiatry,
anti-medication movement, because those things weren’t doing
anybody any good,” says Jim Dahl, director of program
planning for Phoenix House.  “To have the same people embrace
research,
it’s a total culture clash.”

In the last few years, state and federal governments have
tried to bring research into practice.  The National Institute on Drug
Abuse’s Clinical Trials Network, which has outposts at NYU
and Columbia, runs trials of research-based treatments in community
programs, in the hope that such collaboration will encourage
providers to adopt effective new methods.

Similar work is also being done by the federal Center for
Substance Abuse Treatment.  New York State’s Office of Alcohol and
Substance Abuse Services uses a federally funded network to
bring together local providers and researchers for meetings and
networking.

Kevin Wadalavage, vice president of the Outreach Project,
which runs a variety of treatment programs as well as New York State’s
largest training program for addiction counselors, thinks
that ideological barriers are starting to fall.  “The new generation
is more
open,” he says.  “I think as we start to understand the
disease of addiction as a brain-based phenomenon, we are getting
there.

Sometimes people will have a ‘drug-free’ philosophy, but I
don’t think it’s as pervasive as people think.”

Nonetheless, even Wadalavage recognizes numerous obstacles to
change.  The research projects and collaborations can only exhort
providers to improve care, not force change.  As courts
sentence more and more people to rehab as an alternative to prison,
patients
have little choice about which program they enter–but they
are blamed for it and incarcerated if they “fail” treatment.

And since drug courts provide a steady stream of patients–at
least 50 percent of clients, in some residential drug
programs–providers have few incentives to improve their
practices.

There are also practical problems.  Addiction counseling pays
little and has high turnover, and many programs don’t require much
training beyond having graduated from a therapeutic community
or being a member of a 12-step program.

“The problem is that therapeutic communities are the only
modality which really grooms its recovering people to work in the
field,”
says Ira Marion, executive director of the Division of
Substance Abuse at Albert Einstein College of Medicine, which runs a
methadone program for 4,400 patients.  “TCs now integrate
Narcotics Anonymous, which is totally against medication.  Even if you
train such people up the wazoo–and one big issue in the
field still is training–they still have their experience and the NA
credo in
their gut and in their soul.”

Despite the obstacles, there is definitely a shift underway.
“We try to create an environment where if someone says, ‘AA was the
only way for me,’ someone else can say, ‘Well, that didn’t
work for me,'” explains Wadalavage.  “Or if someone says, ‘I’m opposed
to methadone’ [someone else can reply], ‘Well, methadone
saved my life.'”

Dahl, too, is adamant about abandoning infantilizing
techniques.  “That reduces self-esteem, and the self-esteem of most
of our
clients is already quite low,” he says.  “We have a manual
for operating a TC, and we try to hold [staff] accountable if they do
things
like making someone wear bum clothes, put on a dunce hat, etc.”

He acknowledges that the change is not yet complete, however.
“Here and there you still do find that old tradition rearing its ugly
head,” Dahl admits.  “A lot of people still carry those toxic
methods with them.  It’s very hard to change.  But we’re trying
desperately.”

Note: Maia Szalavitz is a co-author of Recovery Options: The
Complete Guide: How You and Your Loved Ones Can Understand
and Treat Alcohol and Other Drug Problems ( Wiley 2000 ).

_____________________________________________________________
Find out what’s HIP!
Visit Hip Planet for news, shopping, forums, chatrooms, free personal and
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From: Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] support granted
Date: January 22, 2003 at 7:28:25 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

At 17:45 20.1.2003, you wrote:

What Howard needs is $2500 a month to run his foundation.

Dana/cnw

Strange… I need that much to run Iboga Foundation for one year (to pay for rent, electricity, Internet access, accountmen – nothing else!!)

Seems that Slovenia is MUCH cheaper to have a foundation…

(It’s true that my office is in semi-legalised squat, I don’t use it much, I only pay 17 US$ per month for cable internet access, and my account-keeper charges me minimal fee… he sees that I have no income 😉

It certanly is much cheaper to run IBOgaine clinical trials in Slovenija, Dr. Alper already calculated this!

Anyone wants to invest in clinical trials over here ???

😉

Marko

From: bernard phifer <slack@hipplanet.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] sick treatment
Date: January 22, 2003 at 12:38:21 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

man i can totally relate to this i was in delancey street for two years  12 hr 72 hr encounter sessions there was food to eat but you couldn’t go to sleep they had these ice water squirt bottles and after about 50 hours you start to hallucinate thats when they start turning out the lights bringing coffins in the room with candles on them talking about the people that have died in your life they yell and scream at you call you names all in the name of breaking down your barriers and getting to the reason you were using drugs i guess it is the shock treatment or shock value of trying to bring someone who othgerwise hasn’t been in touch with their feeling into contact with them when i was there i was busted for selling lsd on dead tour i was court ordered to go there it was a very strange experience for me

thanx B

— Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org> wrote:
Author: Maia Szalavitz
Bookmark: http://www.mapinc.org/rehab.htm (Treatment)

THE BIG IDEA: SICK TREATMENT

When Drug Counselors Attack.

Gloria Holmes didn’t need any more hassles.  A working,
36-year-old mother of three, she had been in and out of drug
treatment for
years.  Following a 2001 suicide attempt serious enough to
land her in Columbia-Presbyterian Hospital for a week, doctors had
given her a prescription for the antidepressant Paxil.
Arrested for drug possession not long after that, she was facing
prison time.

Holmes asked to be sent to a women-only treatment program.
Instead, in the fall of 2001, the city Office of Special Narcotics’
Drug
Treatment Alternatives to Prison Program sent her to a co-ed
rehab residence run by the Veritas Therapeutic Community in
Barryville, New York.  There, according to Holmes, she was
forced to stop taking Paxil.  ( Veritas says its general policy is to
permit
antidepressants.  )

Adding to her misery, her treatment often consisted of being
bullied and humiliated by her counselors.  “They insult you all the
time,” says Holmes.  Once, she says, a staff member told her,
“If I was your husband, I would put you in chains and tie you up and
throw you out the window.”

The final straw came as she was sitting outside at a picnic
table, enjoying the countryside.  A counselor snuck up behind her and
dumped a five-gallon bucket–which had been used as an
ashtray and was full of cigarette butts–over her head, and banged it
three
or four times.  “He said he did it as a joke,” she says.  “He
was laughing.  But I was crying.”

Jurrant Middleton, the program director at Veritas in
Barryville, says what happened to Holmes was no big deal.  “I am
familiar with
this incident, and think that it was blown out of
proportion,” he told City Limits.  “It was inappropriate, it was
dealt with and the
counselor was disciplined.”

But Holmes says the incident made her feel worthless.  “She
felt that she was physically abused, violated tremendously and made a
mockery of,” says her husband, John Holmes, a former cocaine
and heroin addict now training to be an addictions counselor.  “It
certainly didn’t do anything for her self-esteem.  She felt
she could no longer take it, and she left.” Holmes dropped out of the
program, violating the conditions of her sentence, and
started smoking crack again.  Now she is upstate, serving three to
six, as a
result of her failure in rehab.

Imagine if physicians could justify being abusive, arrogant
and condescending by arguing that it improves patient health.  Imagine
that these professionals could decide not to use chemotherapy
for cancer, for example, because they “don’t believe in it,” despite
overwhelming research data.  That’s what addiction care has
been like for the last half-century.  To this day, there’s a huge gap
between clinical psychiatric knowledge and the way drug
treatment actually goes down.

Clinical research shows that, like anyone else,
addicts–particularly women and the mentally ill–respond better to
empathetic
treatment than to attacks or humiliation.  The University of
New Mexico’s William Miller, for example, has demonstrated that
patients are less likely to drop out and relapse if they have
counselors who are compassionate, and not confrontational.

Yet for years, the sort of “care” Gloria Holmes received has
been par for the course in addiction treatment.  Many providers
believe
that addicts needed to be “broken down” and then
re-socialized, and that insults, humiliation and degrading treatment
aid this
process.  And while the National Institute on Drug Abuse has
shown that medications like antidepressants aid recovery, a large
proportion of rehab programs still routinely deny addicts
standard psychiatric medications on the premise that they could lead
back
to addiction.

Recently, a number of federal, state and local government
initiatives have begun trying to reform drug treatment, through both
regulations and research.  But they’ll have to overcome a
deeply entrenched legacy of anti-science and even anti-addict
ideology.

Until very recently, abusive treatment was almost universally
praised.  A 1993 book by the founder of the Daytop treatment
network, Monsignor William O’Brien, calls addicts “babies”
and “stupid,” and says that addiction treatment “has to be harsh,” and
that “being too gentle…doesn’t do anybody any good.”

John Holmes, who works at an agency that provides housing for
former addicts, doesn’t think his wife’s experience was unique.
“I’ve heard about people who were made to wear dunce hats or
sit in a corner for hours, about men dressed as women, or made to
wear diapers,” says Holmes.

These ideas about how addicts should be treated pervade
almost every type of addiction care.  But they have their roots in one
specific type of treatment: therapeutic communities, often
called “TCs,” like the one that Gloria Holmes attended.

Therapeutic communities began in the late 1950s, after
physicians and psychiatrists essentially decided that addiction was
untreatable.  While some doctors continued to try, the
treatment of addicts and alcoholics became a backwater of the medical
profession, populated largely by profiteers and quacks with
little concern about and no financial interest in determining whether
their treatment actually worked.

Alcoholics Anonymous, developed by two alcoholics in the
1930’s, offered some hope to excessive drinkers.  Based on the idea
that one alcoholic could help another, it showed the public
that alcoholism–and later other addictions via copycat 12-step
programs
like Narcotics Anonymous–weren’t always hopeless conditions.

As “the program” grew, doctors and psychologists began to
offer residential treatment to help initiate people into self-help.
The first
of these, Pioneer House, opened in Minnesota in 1958 and
became the model for modern programs like Hazelden and Betty Ford.

That same year, AA member Chuck Dederich opened a small
storefront in Santa Monica and began treating heroin addicts.  He
found that living in a dedicated community, where addicts
forced each other to look at their problems, could help some stay away
from drugs.  Synanon–named after the way one resident
mispronounced “seminar”–became the first American therapeutic
community, spawning countless imitators.

Two of them, Phoenix House and Daytop ( both based in New
York ), are now the country’s largest providers of addiction
treatment.

Unfortunately, Synanon’s program became increasingly bizarre
over time, eventually devolving into a violent cult.  After putting a
rattlesnake in the mailbox of an attorney who was suing
Synanon, Dederich and several other members were ultimately convicted
of
conspiracy to commit murder.

Synanon is gone now, but its methods live on.  Before Synanon
imploded, mainstream programs picked up many of its methods,
including “marathon” therapy sessions lasting days without
breaks for sleep or food, brutal emotional confrontation, humiliating
punishments–such as being dressed as a bum and wearing a
sign saying “I am an asshole”–and other techniques aimed at
dehumanizing and degrading participants.

Like fraternity initiations, this “tough love” tradition is
highly resistant to change, often because many TC staffers are
graduates
themselves.  A large proportion of graduates believe that
what was done to them was necessary to their recovery.  They come into
the field with an evangelical urge to spread the word–and
some, unfortunately, relish the chance to do unto others as others had
done unto them.

As a result, they often not only disregard science as being
irrelevant to what they do, but also tend to view medications and more
humane treatments as inimical to recovery.

“Remember that Synanon and TCs started as an anti-psychiatry,
anti-medication movement, because those things weren’t doing
anybody any good,” says Jim Dahl, director of program
planning for Phoenix House.  “To have the same people embrace
research,
it’s a total culture clash.”

In the last few years, state and federal governments have
tried to bring research into practice.  The National Institute on Drug
Abuse’s Clinical Trials Network, which has outposts at NYU
and Columbia, runs trials of research-based treatments in community
programs, in the hope that such collaboration will encourage
providers to adopt effective new methods.

Similar work is also being done by the federal Center for
Substance Abuse Treatment.  New York State’s Office of Alcohol and
Substance Abuse Services uses a federally funded network to
bring together local providers and researchers for meetings and
networking.

Kevin Wadalavage, vice president of the Outreach Project,
which runs a variety of treatment programs as well as New York State’s
largest training program for addiction counselors, thinks
that ideological barriers are starting to fall.  “The new generation
is more
open,” he says.  “I think as we start to understand the
disease of addiction as a brain-based phenomenon, we are getting
there.

Sometimes people will have a ‘drug-free’ philosophy, but I
don’t think it’s as pervasive as people think.”

Nonetheless, even Wadalavage recognizes numerous obstacles to
change.  The research projects and collaborations can only exhort
providers to improve care, not force change.  As courts
sentence more and more people to rehab as an alternative to prison,
patients
have little choice about which program they enter–but they
are blamed for it and incarcerated if they “fail” treatment.

And since drug courts provide a steady stream of patients–at
least 50 percent of clients, in some residential drug
programs–providers have few incentives to improve their practices.

There are also practical problems.  Addiction counseling pays
little and has high turnover, and many programs don’t require much
training beyond having graduated from a therapeutic community
or being a member of a 12-step program.

“The problem is that therapeutic communities are the only
modality which really grooms its recovering people to work in the
field,”
says Ira Marion, executive director of the Division of
Substance Abuse at Albert Einstein College of Medicine, which runs a
methadone program for 4,400 patients.  “TCs now integrate
Narcotics Anonymous, which is totally against medication.  Even if you
train such people up the wazoo–and one big issue in the
field still is training–they still have their experience and the NA
credo in
their gut and in their soul.”

Despite the obstacles, there is definitely a shift underway.
“We try to create an environment where if someone says, ‘AA was the
only way for me,’ someone else can say, ‘Well, that didn’t
work for me,'” explains Wadalavage.  “Or if someone says, ‘I’m opposed
to methadone’ [someone else can reply], ‘Well, methadone
saved my life.'”

Dahl, too, is adamant about abandoning infantilizing
techniques.  “That reduces self-esteem, and the self-esteem of most
of our
clients is already quite low,” he says.  “We have a manual
for operating a TC, and we try to hold [staff] accountable if they do
things
like making someone wear bum clothes, put on a dunce hat, etc.”

He acknowledges that the change is not yet complete, however.
“Here and there you still do find that old tradition rearing its ugly
head,” Dahl admits.  “A lot of people still carry those toxic
methods with them.  It’s very hard to change.  But we’re trying
desperately.”

Note: Maia Szalavitz is a co-author of Recovery Options: The
Complete Guide: How You and Your Loved Ones Can Understand
and Treat Alcohol and Other Drug Problems ( Wiley 2000 ).

_____________________________________________________________
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From: MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca>
Subject: [ibogaine] Citizen Patrick Goes to Washington
Date: January 21, 2003 at 11:29:24 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You’ll get more attention AND votes if you run as a Marijuana Party
candidate, and more media. Libertarians make excellent Marijuana Party
candidates. Every subject/issue can be effectively associated with the war
on marijuana & drugs. As a Libertarian, you need to find voters who agree
with all aspects of a platform, with a Marijuana Party candidate, its
basically you agree or don’t agree (and if they agree, what are they gonna
do about it!). Twelve states have a Marijuana Party and it will be 50 states
by mid year.

Marc Emery

—– Original Message —–
From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 7:48 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Star Dec. 24 (one day before JAMA)

On [Tue, Jan 21, 2003 at 07:56:49PM -0800], [crownofthorns@hushmail.com]
wrote:

| Bro, your writing is amazing but usually in a different way, this just
| blew me away. Talk about seeing all sides.
|
| When do you run for office? 😉

Very soon!  I’ll be running on the, “I love guns, I hate taxes, please
feel free to take the ‘War on Drugs’ and stuff it up your ass,” platform.
By which I mean to say, Libertarian Party ticket.

Since there appears to be a critical shortage of rich yippies, and nobody
in the Libertarian Party ever gets elected to anything except Executive
Special Assistant to the Office of School Crossing Guards; I will never
actually win.  But it’s certainly something to do.

I absolutely believe that America is the *very greatest* nation in the
United States <waving flag>.  And being an American is all about complete
idiots, with no common sense whatsoever, pursuing ill-conceived and really
stupid ideas.

And I’m not just saying that, I really mean it.

God bless us all, and vote for me, because I promise to make absolutely
everything perfect forever.  If not longer.

Patrick

Thas’ it, Vox is no longer on fire for the most part, and I’m outta here
for the night, buh-bye.

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Star Dec. 24 (one day before JAMA)
Date: January 21, 2003 at 10:48:23 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Tue, Jan 21, 2003 at 07:56:49PM -0800], [crownofthorns@hushmail.com] wrote:

| Bro, your writing is amazing but usually in a different way, this just
| blew me away. Talk about seeing all sides.
|
| When do you run for office? 😉

Very soon!  I’ll be running on the, “I love guns, I hate taxes, please
feel free to take the ‘War on Drugs’ and stuff it up your ass,” platform.
By which I mean to say, Libertarian Party ticket.

Since there appears to be a critical shortage of rich yippies, and nobody
in the Libertarian Party ever gets elected to anything except Executive
Special Assistant to the Office of School Crossing Guards; I will never
actually win.  But it’s certainly something to do.

I absolutely believe that America is the *very greatest* nation in the
United States <waving flag>.  And being an American is all about complete
idiots, with no common sense whatsoever, pursuing ill-conceived and really
stupid ideas.

And I’m not just saying that, I really mean it.

God bless us all, and vote for me, because I promise to make absolutely
everything perfect forever.  If not longer.

Patrick

Thas’ it, Vox is no longer on fire for the most part, and I’m outta here
for the night, buh-bye.

From: crownofthorns@hushmail.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Star Dec. 24 (one day before JAMA)
Date: January 21, 2003 at 10:56:49 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Bro, your writing is amazing but usually in a different way, this just blew me away. Talk about seeing all sides.

When do you run for office? 😉

Peace out and let’s not have so much negative energy right Brendan? 😉
Curtis

On Tue, 21 Jan 2003 16:12:14 -0800 “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> wrote:
On [Sun, Jan 19, 2003 at 02:54:27PM -0800], [brendan22@hushmail.com]
wrote:

| Patrick who is this moron?

Jeff is a consultant who reviews patient safety data for HV.  He
has
absolutely nothing to do with setting the pricing, he is not a
shareholder, he does not make decisions regarding when and how Deborah’s
data is published or presented.  In short: unloading upon him serves
no
particular purpose; he is not in a position to make changes and
cannot
disclose proprietary information.

The article in the Star had a few minor factual errors, possibly
due to
their fact checking department being on vacation until roughly the
heat
death of the universe.

Other than alla this, he’s an addictionologist.  He’s a relatively
recent
addition and wuz not around when I dosed, so I dunno what his particular
theories are ’bout the meaning of life, death, and addikshun.  As
far as I
know he’s a big fan of the 12-steps ‘cuz that’s what worked for
him.  He
appears to honestly believe in what he does.  He has never attempted
to
inflict his paradigms upon me.  He tries to help his clients.  Sometimes
this works out, sometimes it does not.  If it doesn’t, then it’s
probably
up to the individual to find something else to do — presuming they
wanna
get clean.

To sum it up: I dunno Jeff very well, but I have seen him repeatedly
attempt to help individuals who are broken down n’ shit and have
no flow
to pay him.  While people have a complex series of reasons for any
given
thing they do, many who work with addiction are primarily driven
by
emotional needs.  Ascribing the motivation for any given person’s
actions
to solely altruism or greed, would tend to be wrong in either case.

Everybody is working out their own shit in different ways.

| I don’t even need to ask that question because I know what the
answer
| will be. Nothing.

Okay, here, my reply:

http://www.phantom.com/~digital

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Big $$$ to be made with the HushMail Affiliate Program:
https://www.hushmail.com/about.php?subloc=affiliate&l=427

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] pAging Dr. OctaGon
Date: January 21, 2003 at 10:47:40 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This is beautiful! But what is it? It’s comfortably
numb and then what’s he singing??

Hi guys 🙂

Carla B

— “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> wrote:
On [Tue, Jan 21, 2003 at 06:38:44PM -0800], [Gamma]
wrote:

| — “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
wrote:
| > On [Tue, Jan 21, 2003 at 07:55:50AM -0800],
[Gamma] wrote:
| >
| > | is there anybody out there?
| >
| > Is there anybody in there…?  Just nod if you
can hear me.
|
| Justa little PinPricK…

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
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From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] T. Iboga tissue culture
Date: January 21, 2003 at 10:44:59 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This may be an option (or create your own cultures)
for those interested in growing T. Iboga (where
legal).

http://www.dsmz.de/plantcll/pc0930.htm

(click on DSMZ, Price or whatever)

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From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] chicago tribune Ibo Mention
Date: January 21, 2003 at 10:24:36 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/oped/chi-0301200183jan20,1,1869367.story

A new opposition front in the drug war
Criminalizing peaceful people who use psychoactive drugs to deepen their
spiritual life is criminal itself, some groups are arguing

Salim Muwakkil. Salim Muwakkil is a senior editor at In These Times
Published January 20, 2003

A new front has opened in opposition to the war on drugs–a religious front.
Several newly formed groups are contesting our prohibitionist, anti-drug
strategies because they restrict religious freedom and “cognitive liberty.”
Drugs alter consciousness and “the right to control one’s own consciousness is
the quintessence of freedom,” reads part of a manifesto of the Journal of
Cognitive Liberties. The journal is one of many projects of the four-year-old
Center for Cognitive Liberty & Ethics, a California-based, non-profit group
that promotes intellectual freedom. The group defines cognitive liberty as “the
right of each individual to think independently and autonomously, to use the
full spectrum of his or her mind and to engage in multiple modes of thoughts
and alternative states of consciousness.”

The group is involved in several projects designed to raise issues of cognitive
liberty in relation to the war on drugs. In the journal’s Summer 2000 edition,
center co-director Richard Glen Boire wrote “the so-called `war on drugs’ is
not a war on pills, powder, plants and potions, it is war on mental states–a
war on consciousness itself– how much, what sort we are permitted to
experience, and who gets to control it.” Boire argued that much of the
motivation for the war on drugs is an attack on “entheogenic” drugs (roughly,
God evoking) that provoke “transcendent and beatific states of communication
with the deity.”

With this point, Boire lends his argument to a growing movement of Americans
devoted to the use of entheogens. One branch of this movement calls itself
“neo-shamanistic” and seeks out shamanic inebriants that have been used for
centuries. They cite examples like peyote cactus and psilocybin mushrooms among
Native Americans, ibogaine among indigenous Africans, soma in India and
ayahuasca in the Amazonian rain forest.

Others are just spiritual seekers who argue that criminal sanctions on the use
of these psychoactive sacraments restrict their religious freedom. Some make
the argument that the state takes its cue from organized religions, which
historically have demonized entheogens because they lessen the need for a
clergy to connect God to humanity.

Many of the substances they champion (psilocybin, peyote/mescaline, LSD,
marijuana, etc.) are the same drugs that were called psychedelic during the
1960s. These substances are now called entheogenic to distance them from the
hedonistic excesses of the ’60s drug culture.
Along with some newly discovered substances (salvia divinorium, phalaris grass,
ibogaine, ayahuasca/yage, etc), some of which are still precariously legal,
this fledgling movement is taking the spiritual high road in its opposition to
the drug war.

Another one of the groups leading the charge is the Council on Spiritual
Practices. Founded by Robert Jesse, 43, a former vice president of Oracle, the
group focuses on evoking “primary religious experiences,” which they believe
can be evoked by many practices, including fasting, meditation, prayer, yoga
and ingesting entheogenic drugs.

The group’s signature text is “Psychoactive Sacramentals: Essays on Entheogens
and Religion,” which explores many facets of entheogenic use. The book is an
account of a 1995 conference held at the Chicago Theological Seminary that was
devoted to the subject of entheogens and religion.

The council also has published Huston Smith’s book, “Cleansing the Doors of
Perception: The Religious Significance of Entheogenic Plants and Chemicals,” a
text that tackles the issue of drugs and spirituality in a series of
wide-ranging essays.

Smith, 83, is a religious scholar and author of many books, including “The
World’s Religions,” the most widely used textbook on its subject for more than
30 years. He also has produced three series for public television: “The
Religions of Man,” “The Search for America” and (with Arthur Compton) “Science
and Human Responsibility.”

In other words, Smith certainly is no fly-by-night bohemian just looking for a
high. “I was extremely fortunate in having some entheogenic experiences, while
the substances were not only legal, but respectable,” Smith said, talking about
his early experimentation with LSD, in a 2001 Salon magazine interview. “It
seemed like only fair play that since I value those experiences immensely to do
anything I could to enable a new generation to also have such experiences
without the threat of going to jail.”

Criminalizing peaceful people who use psychoactive drugs to deepen their
spiritual experience or widen their cognitive horizons is criminal itself,
these groups argue.

Their arguments are catching on.
———-
E-mail: salim4x@aol.com

__________________________________________________
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From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] pAging Dr. OctaGon
Date: January 21, 2003 at 10:05:27 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Tue, Jan 21, 2003 at 06:38:44PM -0800], [Gamma] wrote:

| — “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> wrote:
| > On [Tue, Jan 21, 2003 at 07:55:50AM -0800], [Gamma] wrote:
| >
| > | is there anybody out there?
| >
| > Is there anybody in there…?  Just nod if you can hear me.
|
| Justa little PinPricK…

From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] chicago tribune article on entheogen rights… Ibogaine mention
Date: January 20, 2003 at 9:09:42 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/oped/chi-0301200183jan20,1,1869367.story

A new opposition front in the drug war
Criminalizing peaceful people who use psychoactive drugs to deepen their
spiritual life is criminal itself, some groups are arguing

Salim Muwakkil. Salim Muwakkil is a senior editor at In These Times
Published January 20, 2003

A new front has opened in opposition to the war on drugs–a religious front.
Several newly formed groups are contesting our prohibitionist, anti-drug
strategies because they restrict religious freedom and “cognitive liberty.”
Drugs alter consciousness and “the right to control one’s own consciousness is
the quintessence of freedom,” reads part of a manifesto of the Journal of
Cognitive Liberties. The journal is one of many projects of the four-year-old
Center for Cognitive Liberty & Ethics, a California-based, non-profit group
that promotes intellectual freedom. The group defines cognitive liberty as “the
right of each individual to think independently and autonomously, to use the
full spectrum of his or her mind and to engage in multiple modes of thoughts
and alternative states of consciousness.”

The group is involved in several projects designed to raise issues of cognitive
liberty in relation to the war on drugs. In the journal’s Summer 2000 edition,
center co-director Richard Glen Boire wrote “the so-called `war on drugs’ is
not a war on pills, powder, plants and potions, it is war on mental states–a
war on consciousness itself– how much, what sort we are permitted to
experience, and who gets to control it.” Boire argued that much of the
motivation for the war on drugs is an attack on “entheogenic” drugs (roughly,
God evoking) that provoke “transcendent and beatific states of communication
with the deity.”

With this point, Boire lends his argument to a growing movement of Americans
devoted to the use of entheogens. One branch of this movement calls itself
“neo-shamanistic” and seeks out shamanic inebriants that have been used for
centuries. They cite examples like peyote cactus and psilocybin mushrooms among
Native Americans, ibogaine among indigenous Africans, soma in India and
ayahuasca in the Amazonian rain forest.

Others are just spiritual seekers who argue that criminal sanctions on the use
of these psychoactive sacraments restrict their religious freedom. Some make
the argument that the state takes its cue from organized religions, which
historically have demonized entheogens because they lessen the need for a
clergy to connect God to humanity.

Many of the substances they champion (psilocybin, peyote/mescaline, LSD,
marijuana, etc.) are the same drugs that were called psychedelic during the
1960s. These substances are now called entheogenic to distance them from the
hedonistic excesses of the ’60s drug culture.
Along with some newly discovered substances (salvia divinorium, phalaris grass,
ibogaine, ayahuasca/yage, etc), some of which are still precariously legal,
this fledgling movement is taking the spiritual high road in its opposition to
the drug war.

Another one of the groups leading the charge is the Council on Spiritual
Practices. Founded by Robert Jesse, 43, a former vice president of Oracle, the
group focuses on evoking “primary religious experiences,” which they believe
can be evoked by many practices, including fasting, meditation, prayer, yoga
and ingesting entheogenic drugs.

The group’s signature text is “Psychoactive Sacramentals: Essays on Entheogens
and Religion,” which explores many facets of entheogenic use. The book is an
account of a 1995 conference held at the Chicago Theological Seminary that was
devoted to the subject of entheogens and religion.

The council also has published Huston Smith’s book, “Cleansing the Doors of
Perception: The Religious Significance of Entheogenic Plants and Chemicals,” a
text that tackles the issue of drugs and spirituality in a series of
wide-ranging essays.

Smith, 83, is a religious scholar and author of many books, including “The
World’s Religions,” the most widely used textbook on its subject for more than
30 years. He also has produced three series for public television: “The
Religions of Man,” “The Search for America” and (with Arthur Compton) “Science
and Human Responsibility.”

In other words, Smith certainly is no fly-by-night bohemian just looking for a
high. “I was extremely fortunate in having some entheogenic experiences, while
the substances were not only legal, but respectable,” Smith said, talking about
his early experimentation with LSD, in a 2001 Salon magazine interview. “It
seemed like only fair play that since I value those experiences immensely to do
anything I could to enable a new generation to also have such experiences
without the threat of going to jail.”

Criminalizing peaceful people who use psychoactive drugs to deepen their
spiritual experience or widen their cognitive horizons is criminal itself,
these groups argue.

Their arguments are catching on.
———-
E-mail: salim4x@aol.com

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] There may still be hope.
Date: January 21, 2003 at 10:28:24 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The following message concerning Albert Hoffman appeared on another list and
is posted with permission of the author.

Howard
*********
<<Dear List,

Albert lives close to Basel in Switzerland. He swims everyday for half an
hour in his own swimming pool, and he also stands on his head every day for
quite some time. These two daily activities keep him fit. When he broke his
hip last year he recovered very fast, much faster than was anticipated for
somebody of his age.
The last time he gave a presentation in another country than Switzerland
was in October 1998 in Amsterdam during the first Psychoactivity
conference. He came all alone by train from Basel to Amsterdam, an 8 hour
train ride. His presentation was the highlight of the conference, an elder
talking to his tribe.

In the night we had organized a party for the conference crowd in the Milky
Way in Amsterdam. We actually didn’t know what to do with Albert, we
thought he wouldn’t enjoy himself in a big club with dance music, so we
asked a spanish profesor who didn’t want to go to the party if he would
take care of Albert.
After dinner, when we wanted to go to the Milky Way, it became clear the
spanish profesor was gone, probably lost in Amsterdam’s famous red light
district, so we took Albert to the club. We had worried for nothing: he
became the star of the night, surrounded by many people who wanted to be
close to him. Those who were young AND female were most successful. He even
danced for a while, with eight women dancing around him. He want back to
his hotel around 2.30 in the morning and he was present at the conference
some hours later, looking fresher than most other participants.

ciao Arno

Arno Adelaars

The Psychoactivity Team
www.psychoactivity.com
www.psychoactivity.org
Arno’s website: www.xs4all.nl/~nota  >>

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] sick treatment
Date: January 21, 2003 at 9:40:11 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Author: Maia Szalavitz
Bookmark: http://www.mapinc.org/rehab.htm (Treatment)

THE BIG IDEA: SICK TREATMENT

When Drug Counselors Attack.

Gloria Holmes didn’t need any more hassles.  A working,
36-year-old mother of three, she had been in and out of drug
treatment for
years.  Following a 2001 suicide attempt serious enough to
land her in Columbia-Presbyterian Hospital for a week, doctors had
given her a prescription for the antidepressant Paxil.
Arrested for drug possession not long after that, she was facing
prison time.

Holmes asked to be sent to a women-only treatment program.
Instead, in the fall of 2001, the city Office of Special Narcotics’
Drug
Treatment Alternatives to Prison Program sent her to a co-ed
rehab residence run by the Veritas Therapeutic Community in
Barryville, New York.  There, according to Holmes, she was
forced to stop taking Paxil.  ( Veritas says its general policy is to
permit
antidepressants.  )

Adding to her misery, her treatment often consisted of being
bullied and humiliated by her counselors.  “They insult you all the
time,” says Holmes.  Once, she says, a staff member told her,
“If I was your husband, I would put you in chains and tie you up and
throw you out the window.”

The final straw came as she was sitting outside at a picnic
table, enjoying the countryside.  A counselor snuck up behind her and
dumped a five-gallon bucket–which had been used as an
ashtray and was full of cigarette butts–over her head, and banged it
three
or four times.  “He said he did it as a joke,” she says.  “He
was laughing.  But I was crying.”

Jurrant Middleton, the program director at Veritas in
Barryville, says what happened to Holmes was no big deal.  “I am
familiar with
this incident, and think that it was blown out of
proportion,” he told City Limits.  “It was inappropriate, it was
dealt with and the
counselor was disciplined.”

But Holmes says the incident made her feel worthless.  “She
felt that she was physically abused, violated tremendously and made a
mockery of,” says her husband, John Holmes, a former cocaine
and heroin addict now training to be an addictions counselor.  “It
certainly didn’t do anything for her self-esteem.  She felt
she could no longer take it, and she left.” Holmes dropped out of the
program, violating the conditions of her sentence, and
started smoking crack again.  Now she is upstate, serving three to
six, as a
result of her failure in rehab.

Imagine if physicians could justify being abusive, arrogant
and condescending by arguing that it improves patient health.  Imagine
that these professionals could decide not to use chemotherapy
for cancer, for example, because they “don’t believe in it,” despite
overwhelming research data.  That’s what addiction care has
been like for the last half-century.  To this day, there’s a huge gap
between clinical psychiatric knowledge and the way drug
treatment actually goes down.

Clinical research shows that, like anyone else,
addicts–particularly women and the mentally ill–respond better to
empathetic
treatment than to attacks or humiliation.  The University of
New Mexico’s William Miller, for example, has demonstrated that
patients are less likely to drop out and relapse if they have
counselors who are compassionate, and not confrontational.

Yet for years, the sort of “care” Gloria Holmes received has
been par for the course in addiction treatment.  Many providers
believe
that addicts needed to be “broken down” and then
re-socialized, and that insults, humiliation and degrading treatment
aid this
process.  And while the National Institute on Drug Abuse has
shown that medications like antidepressants aid recovery, a large
proportion of rehab programs still routinely deny addicts
standard psychiatric medications on the premise that they could lead
back
to addiction.

Recently, a number of federal, state and local government
initiatives have begun trying to reform drug treatment, through both
regulations and research.  But they’ll have to overcome a
deeply entrenched legacy of anti-science and even anti-addict
ideology.

Until very recently, abusive treatment was almost universally
praised.  A 1993 book by the founder of the Daytop treatment
network, Monsignor William O’Brien, calls addicts “babies”
and “stupid,” and says that addiction treatment “has to be harsh,” and
that “being too gentle…doesn’t do anybody any good.”

John Holmes, who works at an agency that provides housing for
former addicts, doesn’t think his wife’s experience was unique.
“I’ve heard about people who were made to wear dunce hats or
sit in a corner for hours, about men dressed as women, or made to
wear diapers,” says Holmes.

These ideas about how addicts should be treated pervade
almost every type of addiction care.  But they have their roots in one
specific type of treatment: therapeutic communities, often
called “TCs,” like the one that Gloria Holmes attended.

Therapeutic communities began in the late 1950s, after
physicians and psychiatrists essentially decided that addiction was
untreatable.  While some doctors continued to try, the
treatment of addicts and alcoholics became a backwater of the medical
profession, populated largely by profiteers and quacks with
little concern about and no financial interest in determining whether
their treatment actually worked.

Alcoholics Anonymous, developed by two alcoholics in the
1930’s, offered some hope to excessive drinkers.  Based on the idea
that one alcoholic could help another, it showed the public
that alcoholism–and later other addictions via copycat 12-step
programs
like Narcotics Anonymous–weren’t always hopeless conditions.

As “the program” grew, doctors and psychologists began to
offer residential treatment to help initiate people into self-help.
The first
of these, Pioneer House, opened in Minnesota in 1958 and
became the model for modern programs like Hazelden and Betty Ford.

That same year, AA member Chuck Dederich opened a small
storefront in Santa Monica and began treating heroin addicts.  He
found that living in a dedicated community, where addicts
forced each other to look at their problems, could help some stay away
from drugs.  Synanon–named after the way one resident
mispronounced “seminar”–became the first American therapeutic
community, spawning countless imitators.

Two of them, Phoenix House and Daytop ( both based in New
York ), are now the country’s largest providers of addiction
treatment.

Unfortunately, Synanon’s program became increasingly bizarre
over time, eventually devolving into a violent cult.  After putting a
rattlesnake in the mailbox of an attorney who was suing
Synanon, Dederich and several other members were ultimately convicted
of
conspiracy to commit murder.

Synanon is gone now, but its methods live on.  Before Synanon
imploded, mainstream programs picked up many of its methods,
including “marathon” therapy sessions lasting days without
breaks for sleep or food, brutal emotional confrontation, humiliating
punishments–such as being dressed as a bum and wearing a
sign saying “I am an asshole”–and other techniques aimed at
dehumanizing and degrading participants.

Like fraternity initiations, this “tough love” tradition is
highly resistant to change, often because many TC staffers are
graduates
themselves.  A large proportion of graduates believe that
what was done to them was necessary to their recovery.  They come into
the field with an evangelical urge to spread the word–and
some, unfortunately, relish the chance to do unto others as others had
done unto them.

As a result, they often not only disregard science as being
irrelevant to what they do, but also tend to view medications and more
humane treatments as inimical to recovery.

“Remember that Synanon and TCs started as an anti-psychiatry,
anti-medication movement, because those things weren’t doing
anybody any good,” says Jim Dahl, director of program
planning for Phoenix House.  “To have the same people embrace
research,
it’s a total culture clash.”

In the last few years, state and federal governments have
tried to bring research into practice.  The National Institute on Drug
Abuse’s Clinical Trials Network, which has outposts at NYU
and Columbia, runs trials of research-based treatments in community
programs, in the hope that such collaboration will encourage
providers to adopt effective new methods.

Similar work is also being done by the federal Center for
Substance Abuse Treatment.  New York State’s Office of Alcohol and
Substance Abuse Services uses a federally funded network to
bring together local providers and researchers for meetings and
networking.

Kevin Wadalavage, vice president of the Outreach Project,
which runs a variety of treatment programs as well as New York State’s
largest training program for addiction counselors, thinks
that ideological barriers are starting to fall.  “The new generation
is more
open,” he says.  “I think as we start to understand the
disease of addiction as a brain-based phenomenon, we are getting
there.

Sometimes people will have a ‘drug-free’ philosophy, but I
don’t think it’s as pervasive as people think.”

Nonetheless, even Wadalavage recognizes numerous obstacles to
change.  The research projects and collaborations can only exhort
providers to improve care, not force change.  As courts
sentence more and more people to rehab as an alternative to prison,
patients
have little choice about which program they enter–but they
are blamed for it and incarcerated if they “fail” treatment.

And since drug courts provide a steady stream of patients–at
least 50 percent of clients, in some residential drug
programs–providers have few incentives to improve their practices.

There are also practical problems.  Addiction counseling pays
little and has high turnover, and many programs don’t require much
training beyond having graduated from a therapeutic community
or being a member of a 12-step program.

“The problem is that therapeutic communities are the only
modality which really grooms its recovering people to work in the
field,”
says Ira Marion, executive director of the Division of
Substance Abuse at Albert Einstein College of Medicine, which runs a
methadone program for 4,400 patients.  “TCs now integrate
Narcotics Anonymous, which is totally against medication.  Even if you
train such people up the wazoo–and one big issue in the
field still is training–they still have their experience and the NA
credo in
their gut and in their soul.”

Despite the obstacles, there is definitely a shift underway.
“We try to create an environment where if someone says, ‘AA was the
only way for me,’ someone else can say, ‘Well, that didn’t
work for me,'” explains Wadalavage.  “Or if someone says, ‘I’m opposed
to methadone’ [someone else can reply], ‘Well, methadone
saved my life.'”

Dahl, too, is adamant about abandoning infantilizing
techniques.  “That reduces self-esteem, and the self-esteem of most
of our
clients is already quite low,” he says.  “We have a manual
for operating a TC, and we try to hold [staff] accountable if they do
things
like making someone wear bum clothes, put on a dunce hat, etc.”

He acknowledges that the change is not yet complete, however.
“Here and there you still do find that old tradition rearing its ugly
head,” Dahl admits.  “A lot of people still carry those toxic
methods with them.  It’s very hard to change.  But we’re trying
desperately.”

Note: Maia Szalavitz is a co-author of Recovery Options: The
Complete Guide: How You and Your Loved Ones Can Understand
and Treat Alcohol and Other Drug Problems ( Wiley 2000 ).

From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] pAging Dr. OctaGon
Date: January 21, 2003 at 9:38:44 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> wrote:
On [Tue, Jan 21, 2003 at 07:55:50AM -0800], [Gamma] wrote:

| is there anybody out there?

Is there anybody in there…?  Just nod if you can hear me.

Justa little PinPricK…

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From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Mention of Philip Dick on Mindvox
Date: January 21, 2003 at 9:11:45 PM EST
To: philipkdick@yahoogroups.com
Cc: dansmith@clark.net, lensman@stardrive.org, hward@wineshopper.com, Mark@k-dunn.freeserve.co.uk, IMDJam@cs.com, gbekkum@mediaone.net, Gary@osborn-day.freeserve.co.uk, gschwart@u.arizona.edu, e-merrill2@ti.com, “Bob Ezergailis” <morpheal@bserv.com>, “cynthia ford” <maruta@wco.com>, “G. G. Ford” <swimp@shaw.ca>, <brumac@compuserve.com>, <yokatta@oxy.edu>, <kklingon@cwcom.net>, <cyrano@aqua.ocn.ne.jp>, “Adrian” <afme@ihug.co.nz>, dewatson@sunflower.com, CloudRider@aol.com, JagdishM@aol.com, phylegyas@hotmail.com, schwann@webtrance.co.za, ibogalab@hotmail.com, zentarot@hotmail.com, Paul DeRienzo <pdr@echonyc.com>, Stews@radiks.net, foozleman@worldnet.att.net, bmasel@tds.net, heff01@email.msn.com, kingfelix@mediaone.net, PTPEET@cs.com, luxefair@bellsouth.net, cardboard_dada@yahoo.com, prophets@maui.net, m.pilkington@virgin.net, PCLARK@JJHILL.ORG, delaneyw@shasta.com, Edward Jahn <ejahn@barnard.edu>, derlock@mailexcite.com, “Andre Welling” <andre.welling@db.com>, Mitchel Cohen <mitchelcohen@mindspring.com>, “MUTANEX Command HAWAI’I” <mutanex@aloha.net>, miriamwhite420@hotmail.com, ibogaine@mindvox.com, Nick Sandberg <nick.sandberg@virgin.net>, George Clayton Johnson <hempjack@earthlink.net>, axiom@greatmystery.org, dancegroove@nyc.rr.com, “warcry@indymedia.org” <warcrycinema@yahoo.com>, “Jay Statzer” <jstatzer@qtm.net>, “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

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Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 19:12:14 -0500
From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Star Dec. 24 (one day before JAMA)
Status:

On [Sun, Jan 19, 2003 at 02:54:27PM -0800], [brendan22@hushmail.com] wrote:

| Patrick who is this moron?

Jeff is a consultant who reviews patient safety data for HV.  He has
absolutely nothing to do with setting the pricing, he is not a
shareholder, he does not make decisions regarding when and how Deborah’s
data is published or presented.  In short: unloading upon him serves no
particular purpose; he is not in a position to make changes and cannot
disclose proprietary information.

The article in the Star had a few minor factual errors, possibly due to
their fact checking department being on vacation until roughly the heat
death of the universe.

Other than alla this, he’s an addictionologist.  He’s a relatively recent
addition and wuz not around when I dosed, so I dunno what his particular
theories are ’bout the meaning of life, death, and addikshun.  As far as I
know he’s a big fan of the 12-steps ‘cuz that’s what worked for him.  He
appears to honestly believe in what he does.  He has never attempted to
inflict his paradigms upon me.  He tries to help his clients.  Sometimes
this works out, sometimes it does not.  If it doesn’t, then it’s probably
up to the individual to find something else to do — presuming they wanna
get clean.

To sum it up: I dunno Jeff very well, but I have seen him repeatedly
attempt to help individuals who are broken down n’ shit and have no flow
to pay him.  While people have a complex series of reasons for any given
thing they do, many who work with addiction are primarily driven by
emotional needs.  Ascribing the motivation for any given person’s actions
to solely altruism or greed, would tend to be wrong in either case.

Everybody is working out their own shit in different ways.

| I don’t even need to ask that question because I know what the answer
| will be. Nothing.

Okay, here, my reply:

http://www.phantom.com/~digital

| Patrick this one’s for you. It doesn’t matter what your relationship is
| with mash, its obvious that its all personal and nothing to do with
| anything else, but your entire life history is pulling skeletons out of
| everyone’s closets. You people get indicted and a month later General
| Donn B. Parker from SRI is being investigated for using research money
| to buy escorts, his phone lines go to a escort agency and then he
| resigns and that case is dismissed because their main witness won’t
| testify against you. This is one case out of many. I wont go on with
| this but you people always get everything on everyone.

Brendan, you — and a few other people — have this charming habit of
wedging events that may or may not have occurred a decade ago, and pertain
to da h4(k3r undergr0und; right into the middle of messages which have
absolutely nothing to do with anything you’re talking about.

I do not know Donn Parker, I have never spoken with Donn Parker, and
<cough> <cough> I don’t think he wuz evah no general, unless it was while
playing dress-up.

Hypothesizing that what you posted bears any relation whatsoever to events
that actually occurred — as opposed to third person, fourth-party hearsay
— I am highly unclear what your point is.  The only lesson I can derive
from this paragraph is a very old one: people who live in glass houses,
shouldn’t cast stones.  Unless of course they want shit to blow the fuck
up, and have everything come crashing down all over them.  Instant karma.

If you feel the urge to unload all this, please do so on the vox list or
fd.  It’s not really appropriate for a forum dedicated to the discussion
of Philip K. Dick, Time Travel physics, and people such as myself having
extended seizures over the psychological damages inflicted upon them by
treatment pimps and 12-step meetings.

Uhm, whoopsie, I meant to say: it’s not really appropriate for a forum
dedicated to the discussion of ibogaine.  Yeah that wuz it.

| I’m sure there isn’t a computer or telephone with 10 miles of you that
| is’nt 0wned.

What’s with the 10 mile radius…?  The whole point of communications
technology is that all distances on planet Earth — and outer space toO!
— are more or less equidistant…

Well, unless you’re using Global Crossing or WorldCom, “look, obviously
you Just Don’t Understand.  The SiGnAl has to travel a lonnnnnnnnng way,
up and down hills, through outer space, and underwater too…  It gets
VERY TIRED.  Unless the sIgNaL receives another $25 billion in funding,
more stock options, and all criminal charges are dropped; it’s just going
to give up, file chapter 11, and sit down somewhere.  And then, roughly
50% of the world’s communications backbone will go dark.  If this happens,
civilization as we know it will grind to a halt.  I mean, how are you
going to steal copyrighted music, download pr0n, and play Quake III
Arena?”

| It doesn’t matter if you signed nondisclosures but if mash is not lying
| about everything and she knows things about ibogaine that nobody else
| does and someone dies in a situation that could have been avoided if she
| did what she claims she is doing, studying ibogaine instead of getting
| rich. the blood is on your hands too Patrick.

Highly excellent do0d.  I give it 10 shiny gold stars on the Histrionic
DramaMeter.  When you’re not drunk, you can be very lucid and articulate.

However, s’okay, blood washes off.  If you happen to get it on your
clothes, lemme mention that Tide with that Protein Lifting akshun and
Mountain Spring scent, works miracles.

| This is not a dis to you at all patrick, its something to think about.
| You do things that help other people you run the list, you speak out
| about ibogaine everywhere and not just Mash’s, your hacker subculture
| stronghold mindvox has become the ibogaine promotional service. you have
| got to have some problems with all this because you never say one word
| about healing visions, you personalize it and always back up mash even
| when shes full of shit. She’s not listening to anyone, she listens to
| you so mention to her that it may be great to publish some of that data
| if its so important.

Thanks do0d, I’m glad my life meets with your approval.  What is it that
YOU do again…?

I do not own any proprietary ibogaine research data, and thusly, it’s
completely pointless to toss this in my direction.  What is it that you
want from me…?  You know that ibogaine works, you know where to obtain
it, so your problem is…?

Yes there are various dangers inherent with using ibogaine.  To cop a line
from Paracelsus, “everything is poison, nothing is poison.”  Nothing is
absolutely safe, least of all any given day in the life of a junkie or
crackhead <shrug>.

To articulate my own OPINION; there seems to be an increasingly large
contingent of people dosing drug-dependent individuals with ibogaine,
under a wide variety of conditions.

The main question appears to be: what happens to any given individual who
experiences an adverse event — however you choose to define “adverse
event” — under the influence of ibogaine, if that situation is not
immediately dealt with (or even noticed, if no monitoring is taking
place).  Will they drop dead?

The answer seems to be: maybe, but probably not.  ‘Cuz if somewhere there
is a growing mountain of dead bodies, I’m not aware of it.

Whatever you wind up doing, YOU are ultimately responsible for YOU.  If
you want to dose with ibogaine, it’d be a great idea to at least give
yourself basic familiarity with what to expect, and read through the
ibogaine manual.

http://www.ibogaine.org/manual.html

| Or does she need to make another 10 million before she’s sure of the results?

Deborah has never made $10 dollars from ibogaine, much less anything
approaching $10 million.  HV is a dog with fleas in terms of cashflow;
factor in all the expenses of flying MD’s, counselors, shrinks, and
various other staff, to an island in the middle of nowhere, and what it
costs to get all of them to drop their practices and personal lives for
two weeks while they sit and spin on St. Kitts, and you arrive at breaking
even.

If you cannot afford St. Kitts, or the whole scenario is not to your
liking, well then: go somewhere else!  Big fucking deal.  The situation is
dramatically different than it was a few years ago; the prices for
ibogaine and ibogaine treatment start at NOTHING, and move upwards from
there depending on what you want, and where you’d like to go.  You have
many choices.

Ibogaine Treatment Centres and supply options

If Deborah’s publishing schedule is not to your liking, oh well.  The
problem is that she’s at the Department of Neurology, *not* the Department
of Ibogaine.  There doesn’t seem to be anybody who wants to fund anything
related to ibogaine, and gosh, running a department has expenses; thusly,
shit that pays the bills gets prioritized above the Holy Crusade, which
has never generated .5 fucking cents.

If you’d like to accelerate things, restart clinical trials within the
United States, and see ibogaine move forward a little faster than the
speed of a crawling snail: please feel free to send cash to the Ibogaine
Research Project.  It’s a registered 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization and
you can write it off on your taxes.

Or buy plane tickets for somebody who can’t afford it, to go see Marc.

If you just wanna bitch about shit <shrug> welcome to the human race, hope
it provides a nice catharsis.

Thanks for sharing,

Patrick

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Albany Testimony– Feedback Welcome, but do it tonite…
Date: January 21, 2003 at 8:58:13 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

January 22, 2003
Re: the Medical Marijuana Bill

I would like to thank the committee today for the chance to expand upon my remarks in order to refute the erroneous impression left by certain speakers at the hearing in December that cannabis is pharmacologically identical to alcohol or opiates. In fact, alcohol and opiates act through the glutamate pathways; they are pro-inflammatory, like nicotine, as opposed to cannabinols, which down-regulate glutamate and inflammation. You will remember what I said before about marijuana’s anti-carcinogenic properties. There are studies that show smoking pot produces “precancerous” cellular alterations. Prohibition supporters often claim marijuana smoke has even more cancer causing compounds than does tobacco smoke. However, this claim is based on the tar content of cannabis LEAVES. Cannabis users do not smoke leaves; the BUDS contain only 30% as much tar as tobacco.

Recent scientific studies have shown that cancer-causing effects are specifically due to nicotine. In fact, nicotine through nicotine receptors in the airways protects cells damaged by the carcinogens found in tobacco smoke from dying. Cells that are genetically damaged by carcinogens and protected from dying are the cells that go on to become cancer cells. The question becomes will pot smokers develop lung cancer as do cigarette smokers, but perhaps at a slower rate.

In this regard, established facts on the impact of marijuana on the immune system must be considered. The immune systems has specific cannabinoid receptors (CB2) that are distinguishable from the neurological variety (CB1). Stimulation of the CB2 receptor plays an important role in what is known as “immune deviation”. The immune system can typically respond in either of two general patterns known as a th1 or a th2 cytokine response. Cannabinoids cause the immune system to deviate to a th2, anti-inflammatory response. In contrast, tobacco smoke has opposite pharmacological properties and results in a pro-inflammatory response. The pro-inflammatory response is characterized by free radical production which will exacerbate any carcinogens in the smoke. Pro-inflammatory response amplifies tobacco’s carcinogenic potential whereas marijuana’s anti-inflammatory response intrinsically reduces the carcinogenic potential of smoking. Consistent with epidemiological studies which do not bear out cannabis carcinogenesis, tobacco causes lung cancer whereas marijuana does not.

In the middle of the last century, cannabis was commonly compared to alcohol; indeed–you heard it’s action described in December as an “anesthetic–like being drunk.” The claim was made then that cannabis has no real efficacy in the management of pain whatsoever. But a simple review of the literature shows this is not true at all.

Mammalian tissues contain at least two types of cannabinoid receptor, CB1 and CB2, both coupled to G proteins. CB1 receptors are expressed mainly by neurones of the central and peripheral nervous system whereas CB2 receptors occur centrally and peripherally in certain non-neuronal tissues, particularly in immune cells. The existence of endogenous neurotransmitterss for cannabinoid receptors has also been demonstrated. CB1 receptors are involved in nociceptive pain and both CB1 and CB2 receptors are involved in inflammatory hypersensitivity. Furthermore, cannabinoids produce analgesia by modulating rostral ventromedial medulla (RVM) neuronal activityin a manner similar to, but pharmacologically dissociable from,that of morphine. They also show that endogenous cannabinoids tonically regulate pain thresholds in part through the modulation of RVM neuronal activity. These results show that analgesia produced by cannabinoids and opioids involves similar brainstem circuitry and that cannabinoids are indeed centrally acting analgesics with a new mechanism of action. Furthermore contralateral thalamic cannabinoid CB receptors are upregulated after unilateral axotomy of the tibial branch of the sciatic nerve, a rat model of chronic neuropathic pain, implying  that cannabinoid CB receptor 1 upregulation contributes to the increased analgesic efficacy of cannabinoids in chronic pain conditions. These findings suggest that marijuana-induced antinociception is mediated through a CB1-receptor mechanism of action and are consistent with the notion that 9-THC is mainly responsible for this effect. These results also strongly suggest that the cannabinoid CB receptor is expressed presynaptically and that the activation of these receptors by synthetic cannabinoid CB receptor agonists or low concentration of anandamide results in inhibition of transmitter release from nociceptive primary sensory neurons. High concentrations of anandamide, on the other hand, increase the frequency of miniature excitatory postsynaptic currents recorded from substantia gelatinosa neurons. The possibility that antinociception can be mediated by cannabinoid receptors other than CB1 and CB2 receptors, for example CB2-like receptors, is also discussed as is the evidence firstly that one endogenous cannabinoid, anandamide, produces antinociception through mechanisms that differ from those of other types of cannabinoid, for example by acting on vanilloid receptors, and secondly that the endocannabinoid system has physiological and/or pathophysiological roles in the modulation of pain.*

The relevance to these hearings of an effective means of pain management that is anti-inflammatory, and not pro-inflammatory, is that many auto-immune conditions currently being treated with opiates, like M.S. or arthritis, respond so much better to cannabis because the last thing these patients need is something that masks the pain while making their auto-immune inflammatory response worse! But the physician partisans of opiates, as you heard in December, are rather hostile to the input of individual patients, and prefer to focus on the putative negative impact of medical marijuana on public health. Gabriel Nahas has even opined that “so-called medical marijuana patients” are really candidates for methadone maintenance.

Considered from the public health standpoint, though, cannabis is more often than not a replacement for alcohol and other drugs. When cannabis use goes up, alcohol use goes down. And because the cannabis effect is NOT incapacitating like alcohol intoxication (every single study to date shows no significant impairment of driving, for instance) the effect of the substitution of cannabis is the save lives. Economists Frank Chaloupka and Adit Laixuthai, at the University of Illinois at Chicago, estimate that cannabis decriminalization would reduce youth traffic fatalities by 5.5 per cent, youth drinking rates by eight per cent and binge-drinking rates by five per cent. Other evidence suggests we would see similar declines in emergency-room drug and alcohol cases.

Now since any state medical marijuana measure enacted under George Bush is DOA, and since I notice that Chairman Lentol is sponsoring a companion piece of legislation which toughens penalties for repeat sale, perhaps it is time to consider that simply relaxing the laws on possession and distribution that are now on the books would have more practical benefits for medical patients, especially persons living with AIDS in New York City.

Consider that 25% of all misdemeanor cases in New York on an average day are for simple possession of small amounts of marijuana. 90% of these are youths or Black and Latino inner city residents.**  A review of the AIDS statistics reveals that these neighborhoods have rates of 846 to 3354 of HIV infection per hundred thousand. But since narcotic enforcement tends to focus on the same, familiar population of drug users, the percentage of people with AIDS or hepatitis C who are locked up and kept from complying with their regimen of medications is far higher than the 1 to 4 % these statistics suggest. Considering that it’s almost impossible to go through Central Booking without being exposed to at least one homeless person with drug-resistant tuberculosis, no system could be devised which would more exacerbate the AIDS crisis.

The answer is to bite the bullet, do what Great Britain is doing, and sanction casual marijuana possession with a verbal warning and confiscation. No ticket, no jail time, no fingerprinting on the remote chance that out of thousands detained, you’ll catch one actual criminal.

The second problem is that unlike methadone, there is no provision under your contemplated legislation for access to cannabis for people who don’t have a life-threatening condition but–like the methadone client–can’t or won’t quit using. Since methadone is arguably the more toxic substance, the only explanation is that the state intends that people be strung out on harder, more addictive drugs: opiates, alcohol and tobacco. This makes no sense, and the solution is to change the law to punish, not repeat sale, but the use of the market in cannabis to introduce neophytes to harder drugs. The stiffer penalties would come into play wherever cannabis was found commingled with cocaine, heroin, methamphetamine, etc. Over time, the public health benefits of this approach are enormous, as we may see >from the several decade experience of the Netherlands.

According to Dutch government factsheets, for instance, out of the total population of 727,000, Amsterdam has around 5,100 hard-drug users. The primary thrust of policy is to discourage the use of drugs, and to combat the trade in drugs. The authorities also seek to minimise the risks incurred by drug users and to reduce as far as possible the nuisance factor for the general public. In the context of use, Amsterdam’s drug policy differentiates between hard and soft drugs, i.e.: cannabis is available, but at locations where no other illicit substances may be sold, and this “market separation” is strictly enforced. Of some 5,100 hard-drug users, around 2000 are of Dutch origin, with some 1,350 having roots in former colony of Surinam, the Netherlands Antilles and Morocco. Around 1,750 users come >from other European countries, mainly Germany and Italy. The total number of hard-drug users is steadily decreasing, while their average age is rising, from 26.8 years in 1981 to 39 years in 1999. In the same period the total number of drug users under 22 years of age dropped from 14.4 percent to 1.6%.

In terms of the AIDS crisis, there is no question that cannabis consumption is not implicated in the spread of the virus, whereas the U.S. failure to get a handle on its needle-drug problem has supplied the vector for almost half of all infections in New York City. For that reason, instead of trying to carve out an exception to the system for the severely ill and dying [which exception recalcitrant narcs will no doubt flout with help of the Feds anyway], you should CHANGE THE SYSTEM to protect the public health–removing the threat of arrest for very sick in the process.

___________________________________________________________________

*  CB1 and CB2 cannabinoid receptors are implicated in inflammatory pain N. Claytona,b, F.H. Marshallc, C. Bountraa,b, C.T. O’Shaughnessyc,* aDepartment of Neurology, GlaxoWellcome Research and Development Ltd, Gunnels Wood Road, Stevenage SG1 2NY, UK bDepartment of Rheumatology, GlaxoWellcome Research and Development Ltd, Gunnels Wood Road, Stevenage SG1 2NY, UK cDepartment of 7TM Receptors, GlaxoWellcome Research and Development Ltd, Gunnels Wood Road, Stevenage SG1 2NY, UK Received 1 March 2001; received in revised form 12 October 2001; accepted 23 October 2001

Abstract
The cannabinoid agonist, HU210 has been evaluated in vivo in nociceptive and inflammatory pain models in the rat. The ED50 for the antinociceptive (increasing mechanical withdrawal threshold) effect was 0.1 mg/kg 2 1 i.p., and for anti-hypersensitivity and anti-inflammatory activity was 5 mg/kg 2 1 i.p. (in the carrageenan model). The selective CB1 antagonist, AM281 (0.5 mg/kg 2 1 i.p.) reversed effects of HU210 (10 and 30 mg/kg 2 1 i.p.) in both nociceptive and inflammatory models of hypersensitivity. The selective CB2 antagonist, SR144528 (1 mg/kg 2 1 i.p.) antagonised effects of HU210 (30 mg/kg 2 1 i.p.) in the carrageenan induced inflammatory hypersensitivity. The CB2 agonist, 1-(3-Dichlorobenzoyl)-5-methoxy-2-methyl-(2-(morpholin-4-yl)ethyl 2 1H-indole (GW405833) inhibited the hypersensitivity and was anti-inflammatory in vivo. These effects were blocked by SR144528. These findings suggest that CB1 receptors are involved in nociceptive pain and that both CB1 and CB2 receptors are involved in inflammatory hypersensitivity. Future studies will investigate effects on identified inflammatory cells within the inflamed tissue to further elucidate the role of cannabinoid receptors.
2001 Elsevier Science Inc.  All rights reserved.
Keywords: CB1; CB2; Cannabinoid receptors; Inflammatory pain
An analgesia circuit
activated by cannabinoids
Ian D. Meng*, Barton H. Manning*, William J. MartinÝ
& Howard L. Fields*ý
Departments of *Neurology, Ý Anatomy and ý Physiology, and the W. M. Keck
Foundation Center for Integrative Neuroscience, University of California,
San Francisco, California 94143-0114, USA
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Although many anecdotal reports indicate that marijuana and its
active constituent, delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol (delta-9-THC),
may reduce pain sensation1,2, studies of humans have produced
inconsistent results3-6. In animal studies, the apparent pain
suppressing effects of delta-9-THC and other cannabinoid
drugs7-12 are confounded by motor deficits13,14. Here we show
that a brainstem circuit that contributes to the pain-suppressing
effects of morphine15 is also required for the analgesic effects of
cannabinoids. Inactivation of the rostral ventromedial medulla
(RVM) prevents the analgesia but not the motor deficits produced8
by systemically administered cannabinoids. Furthermore, cannabinoids
produce analgesia by modulating RVM neuronal activity
in a manner similar to, but pharmacologically dissociable from,
that of morphine. We also show that endogenous cannabinoids
tonically regulate pain thresholds in part through the modulation
of RVM neuronal activity. These results show that analgesia
produced by cannabinoids and opioids involves similar brainstem
circuitry and that cannabinoids are indeed centrally acting
analgesics with a new mechanism of action.
Z . European Journal of Pharmacology 415 2001 R5-R7
www.elsevier.nlrlocaterejphar
Rapid communication
Cannabinoid CB receptor upregulation in a rat model of chronic 1 neuropathic pain
Angela Siegling, Heiko A. Hofmann, Dirk Denzer, Frank Mauler, Jean De Vry )
CNS Research, Bayer AG, Aprather Weg 18a, D-42096, Wuppertal, Germany
Received in revised form 24 January 2001; accepted 26 January 2001

Abstract
Although cannabinoids are known to be more effective analgesics against chronic rather than acute pain, the mechanism underlying this phenomenon is still unclear. We report now that contralateral thalamic cannabinoid CB receptors are upregulated after unilateral 1 axotomy of the tibial branch of the sciatic nerve, a rat model of chronic neuropathic pain, and hypothesize that cannabinoid CB receptor 1 upregulation contributes to the increased analgesic efficacy of cannabinoids in chronic pain conditions. q2001 Elsevier Science B.V. All
rights reserved.

Drug and Alcohol Dependence 63 (2001) 107-116
The pharmacological activity of inhalation exposure to marijuana smoke in mice
Aron H. Lichtman a,*, Justin L. Poklis b, Alphonse Poklis a,b, David M. Wilson a,
Billy R. Martin a
a Department of Pharmacology and Toxicology, MCV Campus, Medical College of Virginia, Virginia Commonwealth University,P.O. Box 980613, Richmond, VA 23298- 0613, USA
b Department of Pathology, Medical College of Virginia, Virginia Commonwealth Uniersity, Richmond, VA 23298- 0613, USA
Received 2 August 1999; accepted 21 April 2000
Abstract
Although the majority of cannabinoid users smoke marijuana, the preponderance of laboratory animal research is based on administration of 9-tetrahydrocannabinol (9-THC) or other cannabinoid agents via injection. The aim of the present study was to evaluate the impact of inhaling marijuana, or ethanol-extracted placebo smoke in the mouse model of cannabinoid activity by assessing inhibition of spontaneous activity, antinociception, catalepsy, and body temperature. In order to determine dosimetry, blood levels of 9-THC were obtained following either marijuana exposure or intravenous injection of 9-THC. Inhalation exposure to marijuana produced dose-related increases in antinociception and catalepsy, with estimated ED50 doses of 9-THC of 2.4 and 3.8 mg/kg, respectively. However, hypothermia and locomotor depression occurred in both the placebo- and marijuana- exposed mice. The CB1 receptor antagonist, SR 141716A antagonized the antinociceptive effects of marijuana
(AD50=0.6 mg/kg), but only slightly decreased marijuana-induced catalepsy, and failed to alter either the hypothermic or locomotor depressive effects. In contrast, SR 141716A antagonized the antinociceptive, cataleptic, and hypothermic effects of intravenously administered 9-THC in mice that were exposed to air alone, though all subjects exhibited locomotor depression, possibly related to the restraint. In accordance with reports of others, these data suggest that exposure to smoke alone has pharmacological consequences. Our findings also indicate that marijuana-induced antinociception is mediated through a CB1-receptor mechanism of action and are consistent with the notion that 9-THC is mainly responsible for this effect. © 2001
Elsevier Science Ireland Ltd. All rights reserved.
www.elsevier.com/locate/drugalcdep

Z . European Journal of Pharmacology 429 2001 93-100
www.elsevier.comrlocaterejphar
Review
Possible mechanisms of cannabinoid-induced antinociception in the spinal cord
Valerie Morisset a, Jatinder Ahluwalia a,b, Istvan Nagy b, Laszlo Urban a,)
a NoÕartis Institute for Medical Sciences, 5 Gower Place, London, WC1E 6BN, UK
b Department of Anaesthetics, Imperial College, Faculty of Medicine, Chelsea and Westminster Hospital, 369 Fulham Road, London, SW10 9NH, UK
Accepted 27 July 2001
Abstract
Anandamide is an endogenous ligand at both the inhibitory cannabinoid CB receptor and the excitatory vanilloid receptor 1 VR1 . The CB receptor and vanilloid VR1 receptor are expressed in about 50% and 40% of dorsal root ganglion neurons, respectively. While all vanilloid VR1 receptor-expressing cells belong to the calcitonin gene-related peptide-containing and isolectin B4-binding sub-populations of nociceptive primary sensory neurons, about 80% of the cannabinoid CB receptor-expressing cells belong to those sub-populations. Furthermore, all vanilloid VR1 receptor-expressing cells co-express the cannabinoid CB receptor. In agreement with these findings, neonatal capsaicin treatment that induces degeneration of capsaicin-sensitive, vanilloid VR1 receptor-expressing, thin, unmyelinated, nociceptive primary afferent fibres significantly reduced the cannabinoid CB receptor immunostaining in the superficial spinal dorsal horn. Synthetic cannabinoid CB receptor agonists, which do not have affinity at the vanilloid VR1 receptor, and low concentrations of anandamide both reduce the frequency of miniature excitatory postsynaptic currents and electrical stimulation-evoked or
capsaicin-induced excitatory postsynaptic currents in substantia gelatinosa cells in the spinal cord without any effect on their amplitude.
These effects are blocked by selective cannabinoid CB receptor antagonists. Furthermore, the paired-pulse ratio is increased while the postsynaptic response of substantia gelatinosa neurons induced by a-amino-3-hydroxy- 5-methylisoxasole-propionic acid AMPA in the presence of tetrodotoxin is unchanged following cannabinoid CB receptor activation. These results strongly suggest that the cannabinoid CB receptor is expressed presynaptically and that the activation of these receptors by synthetic cannabinoid CB receptor agonists or low concentration of anandamide results in inhibition of transmitter release from nociceptive primary sensory neurons. High concentrations of anandamide, on the other hand, increase the frequency of miniature excitatory postsynaptic currents recorded from substantia gelatinosa neurons. This increase is blocked by ruthenium red, suggesting that this effect is mediated through the vanilloid VR1 receptor. Thus, anandamide at high concentrations can activate the VR1 and produce an opposite, excitatory effect to its inhibitory action produced at low concentrations through cannabinoid CB receptor activation. This dual, concentration-dependent effect of anandamide could be an
important presynaptic modulatory mechanism in the spinal nociceptive system. q2001 Elsevier Science B.V. All rights reserved.

Progress in Neurobiology 63 (2001) 569-611
Cannabinoid receptors and pain
Roger G. Pertwee *
Department of Biomedical Sciences, Institute of Medical Sciences, Uni6ersity of Aberdeen, Foresterhill, Aberdeen AB 25 2ZD, Scotland, UK
Received 9 February 2000
Abstract
Mammalian tissues contain at least two types of cannabinoid receptor, CB1 and CB2, both coupled to G proteins. CB1 receptors are expressed mainly by neurones of the central and peripheral nervous system whereas CB2 receptors occur centrally and peripherally in certain non-neuronal tissues, particularly in immune cells. The existence of endogenous ligands for cannabinoid receptors has also been demonstrated. The discovery of this ‘endocannabinoid system’ has prompted the development of a range of novel cannabinoid receptor agonists and antagonists, including several that show marked selectivity for CB1 or CB2 receptors.
It has also been paralleled by a renewed interest in cannabinoid-induced antinociception. This review summarizes current knowledge about the ability of cannabinoids to produce antinociception in animal models of acute pain as well as about the ability of these drugs to suppress signs of tonic pain induced in animals by nerve damage or by the injection of an inflammatory agent.
Particular attention is paid to the types of pain against which cannabinoids may be effective, the distribution pattern of cannabinoid receptors in central and peripheral pain pathways and the part that these receptors play in cannabinoid-induced antinociception. The possibility that antinociception can be mediated by cannabinoid receptors other than CB1 and CB2 receptors, for example CB2-like receptors, is also discussed as is the evidence firstly that one endogenous cannabinoid, anandamide, produces antinociception through mechanisms that differ from those of other types of cannabinoid, for example by acting on vanilloid receptors, and secondly that the endocannabinoid system has physiological and:or pathophysiological roles in the modulation of pain.
© 2001 Elsevier Science Ltd. All rights reserved.
www.elsevier.com:locate:pneurobio

Dr. Robert J. Melamede
Chairman, Biology Department
Room 232
University of Colorado
1420 Austin Bluffs Parkway
PO Box 7150
Colorado Springs, CO 80933-7150

rmelamed@uccs.edu
719 471-1447 H
719 262-3135 W
_________

**  A May 2000 Human Rights Watch report, Punishment and  Prejudice, found that the rate at which African-American men are sentenced to state prison for drug crimes is thirteen times greater than the rate at which Euro-American men are sentenced for similar offenses.  The Bureau of Justice Statistics has further disclosed that one in three African-American men aged 20-29 are now under some kind of correctional supervision.

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Fwd: [ibogaine] ibogaine and antipsychotic drugs
Date: January 21, 2003 at 9:30:19 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Contrary to current standard medical practice my
suggestion would be to remove the cause of the
disease/symptom rather than run around treating them
leaving the cause intact. In other words, MY treatment
of choice for cocaine psychosis is to remove the
cocaine (it is quite effective <g>), not to add more
drugs into the mix (hummm…). The Risperidone should
be discontinued (IMO) prior to ibo treatment (I do not
know the specifics of D/C’ing such a drug), the ibo,
time and not using will take care of most if not all
of the psychosis. You could use parlodel (aka
bromocriptine sp?) to “normalize” the brain (for 2
weeks) it is pretty standard stuff and orderable
online (qhi.co.uk). Other nutritional support such as
phenylalanine and a good diet also helps coke/speed
addicts recover.   Anyway, real “cocaine psychosis” is
generally a very short term  event (while on cocaine)
though people can be wacky for some time after a good
long coke run. Ah, the good old days, what fun, I
really miss those meanies trying to get me…

FWIW

Brett

— Eaquinet@aol.com wrote:

ATTACHMENT part 2 message/rfc822
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2003 12:24:44 1900
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 12:24:44 -0500
From: Eaquinet@aol.com
To: eaquinet@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine and antipsychotic
drugs
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Hi, I’m responding to the questions on the list
about crack psychosis and the use of anti-psychotic
drugs, specif. Risperidone (Risperdal). I am a
psychiatric nurse practitioner so can give you some
facts, which you can also get yourself in any good
drug book such as a PDR or any drug book written for
nurses (almost every major health publisher has
one). First of all, crack psychosis (like
amphetamine psychosis) SHOULD be a temporary
phenomenon. Kind of like a delirium which is an
altered state of consciousness (usu.
w/disorientation, maybe physical stuff like
incontinence and ataxia, and “psychotic” symptoms
such as delusions, hallucinations, agitation, etc.)
Anything that is a delirium has a cause which needs
to be identified (in this case, use of crack), and
when discontinued or rectified, the delirium should
(in varying amounts of time depending on the cause)
clear. For ex., many drugs (even cardiovascular and
gastrointestinal drugs) can cause delirium, toxic
levels of drugs (even “common” drugs for “medical”
conditions) can do so also (particularly in
vulnerable people such as the elderly, those
w/impaired renal/hepatic function, dehydration,
etc), fever can cause delirium as can nutritional
imbalances, dehydration, and even infection such as
UTIs and URIs. So, if the person’s psychosis is
caused by crack use, it should clear when the crack
gets out of their body. The experience can really
shake people up though where they may need
restorative care afterwards, and espec. if their
chronic use and/or lifestyle has caused their
physical health to be run down anyway. Like, they
may need hydration, GOOD nutrition including
supplements, rest, calming mental activities, etc.
Drugslike Risperidone are primarily used for people
who have more organic disease-caused reasons for
psychosis, such as people w/schizophrenia, people
w/bipolar disorder who get manic alot, and people
w/dementias who have psychotic symptoms. A dementia
can look alot like delirium except it comes on
slowly, is very global (affects all aspects of
cognition, emotion, behavior), and won’t clear by
identifying the cause and fixing it. Cause
dementia’s by definition are organic processes that
generally don’t get better cause actual permanent
brain changes are occurring (such as in Alzheimers,
people w/strokes, Parkinsons, end-stage syphilis,
and other  causes of dementia). Risperidone is a
powerful medication which has some potentially very
dangerous side effects such a neuroleptic malignancy
syndrome which can be fatal, abnormal involuntary
movement disorders, blood dyscrasias, cardiac
arrythmias, and many more. It’s not something that
should be prescribed without much careful attention
to diagnosis  and of course frequent follow-up. If
it were being used for crack psychosis I would
assume it would be used for a short time, just until
the crack really exited the person’s body and there
were other restorative treatments being given (as
above). It would be quite unusual for someone to
have permanent psychosis from using crack. Normal
doses of Risperidone are 1 mg. bid to a max of about
4-6 mg. bid (twice a day). It is supplied in an oral
form which is 1mg/1cc (1 mg.of medicine in every 1
cc (or ml–same thing)of the fluid).  welll, i hope
this is helpful. If there is anything else i can
help w/, especially in the realm of
medical/psychiatric issues, please let me know. Many
blessings to you and your work, Eliana Quinet,
RN,MS,CS

__________________________________________________
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From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] pAging Dr. OctaGon
Date: January 21, 2003 at 7:38:01 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Tue, Jan 21, 2003 at 07:55:50AM -0800], [Gamma] wrote:

| is there anybody out there?

Is there anybody in there…?  Just nod if you can hear me.

From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] pAging Dr. OctaGon
Date: January 21, 2003 at 10:55:50 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

is there anybody out there?

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
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From: sara119@xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine and antipsychotic drugs
Date: January 21, 2003 at 4:49:44 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I also have someone who is being given Risperdone who wants to take
ibogaine
to get off the withdrawl she feels from stopping the use of Risperdone. I
don’t know what to do here.

Marc Emery
Iboga Therapy House

—– Original Message —–
From: “Hattie” <epoptica@freeuk.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 4:34 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine and antipsychotic drugs

on 1/13/03 11:09 AM, preston peet at ptpeet@nyc.rr.com wrote:

I was wondering whether anyone can help. Someone has contacted me
wanting
to
do ibogaine who has been suffering a crack induced psychosis. As a
result
he
is on antipsychotic drugs – 2ml 2 times a day of RISPERDONE. He knows I
am
not currently facilitating sessions but wanted my advice.

My initial response was to advise against on principle that taking a
strong
psychoactive to help deal with an incidence of psychosis was generally
not
a
good idea! Then thinking about it I thought that perhaps the risperdone
would merely block the psychoactive effects of ibogaine.

I am guessing and was wondering basically if there are any
contraindications
with antipsychotic drugs, any physical dangers for him. And also whether
anyone knows if it would block the psychoactive effects of the ibogaine.

The guy is in a catch 22. He wants to give up drugs because they are
making
him mad (in his words) and yet the one thing that may help may also
interact
badly with the drugs he is taking to control the madness! He has said
that
he missed taking the medication a few times and suffered no psychotic
effects. His episode of psychosis involved voices in his head among
other
uncomfortable physical effects. I asked him why he hasn’t tried coming
off
the medication and he said that he only saw the psychiatrist every 3
months
and the last visit was uneventful and no suggestions to come of the
drugs
were given.

Can anyone give more info on crack induced psychosis?

Could he take the ibogaine on top of the medication, or should he come
off
the medication, or should he completely avoid taking ibogaine.

Any medical and psychiatric advice would be most welcome.

Thanks

Hattie

PS He is using crack, heroin and methadone daily

Hi ,

There is a way to treat patients who take anti psychotic drugs in
combination with other drugs ,

I have done it many times without any problem ,

this is not a treatment someone can do on his own , and it takes two weeks
treatment with a special care and multi dosages in small amounts,

greetings,

Sara

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] bl1p
Date: January 21, 2003 at 7:19:58 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com, drugwar@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Lists — and that whole entire MindVox thing — were unreachable for the
last 48 hours or so, while everybody took off for the weekend and firewall
isSueZ reared their hedz.

All is well, don’t panic.

This also means, all the mail that’s queued up, is gonna start going
<splat> right around now.

Patrick

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Star Dec. 24 (one day before JAMA)
Date: January 21, 2003 at 7:12:14 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Sun, Jan 19, 2003 at 02:54:27PM -0800], [brendan22@hushmail.com] wrote:

| Patrick who is this moron?

Jeff is a consultant who reviews patient safety data for HV.  He has
absolutely nothing to do with setting the pricing, he is not a
shareholder, he does not make decisions regarding when and how Deborah’s
data is published or presented.  In short: unloading upon him serves no
particular purpose; he is not in a position to make changes and cannot
disclose proprietary information.

The article in the Star had a few minor factual errors, possibly due to
their fact checking department being on vacation until roughly the heat
death of the universe.

Other than alla this, he’s an addictionologist.  He’s a relatively recent
addition and wuz not around when I dosed, so I dunno what his particular
theories are ’bout the meaning of life, death, and addikshun.  As far as I
know he’s a big fan of the 12-steps ‘cuz that’s what worked for him.  He
appears to honestly believe in what he does.  He has never attempted to
inflict his paradigms upon me.  He tries to help his clients.  Sometimes
this works out, sometimes it does not.  If it doesn’t, then it’s probably
up to the individual to find something else to do — presuming they wanna
get clean.

To sum it up: I dunno Jeff very well, but I have seen him repeatedly
attempt to help individuals who are broken down n’ shit and have no flow
to pay him.  While people have a complex series of reasons for any given
thing they do, many who work with addiction are primarily driven by
emotional needs.  Ascribing the motivation for any given person’s actions
to solely altruism or greed, would tend to be wrong in either case.

Everybody is working out their own shit in different ways.

| I don’t even need to ask that question because I know what the answer
| will be. Nothing.

Okay, here, my reply:

http://www.phantom.com/~digital

| Patrick this one’s for you. It doesn’t matter what your relationship is
| with mash, its obvious that its all personal and nothing to do with
| anything else, but your entire life history is pulling skeletons out of
| everyone’s closets. You people get indicted and a month later General
| Donn B. Parker from SRI is being investigated for using research money
| to buy escorts, his phone lines go to a escort agency and then he
| resigns and that case is dismissed because their main witness won’t
| testify against you. This is one case out of many. I wont go on with
| this but you people always get everything on everyone.

Brendan, you — and a few other people — have this charming habit of
wedging events that may or may not have occurred a decade ago, and pertain
to da h4(k3r undergr0und; right into the middle of messages which have
absolutely nothing to do with anything you’re talking about.

I do not know Donn Parker, I have never spoken with Donn Parker, and
<cough> <cough> I don’t think he wuz evah no general, unless it was while
playing dress-up.

Hypothesizing that what you posted bears any relation whatsoever to events
that actually occurred — as opposed to third person, fourth-party hearsay
— I am highly unclear what your point is.  The only lesson I can derive
from this paragraph is a very old one: people who live in glass houses,
shouldn’t cast stones.  Unless of course they want shit to blow the fuck
up, and have everything come crashing down all over them.  Instant karma.

If you feel the urge to unload all this, please do so on the vox list or
fd.  It’s not really appropriate for a forum dedicated to the discussion
of Philip K. Dick, Time Travel physics, and people such as myself having
extended seizures over the psychological damages inflicted upon them by
treatment pimps and 12-step meetings.

Uhm, whoopsie, I meant to say: it’s not really appropriate for a forum
dedicated to the discussion of ibogaine.  Yeah that wuz it.

| I’m sure there isn’t a computer or telephone with 10 miles of you that
| is’nt 0wned.

What’s with the 10 mile radius…?  The whole point of communications
technology is that all distances on planet Earth — and outer space toO!
— are more or less equidistant…

Well, unless you’re using Global Crossing or WorldCom, “look, obviously
you Just Don’t Understand.  The SiGnAl has to travel a lonnnnnnnnng way,
up and down hills, through outer space, and underwater too…  It gets
VERY TIRED.  Unless the sIgNaL receives another $25 billion in funding,
more stock options, and all criminal charges are dropped; it’s just going
to give up, file chapter 11, and sit down somewhere.  And then, roughly
50% of the world’s communications backbone will go dark.  If this happens,
civilization as we know it will grind to a halt.  I mean, how are you
going to steal copyrighted music, download pr0n, and play Quake III
Arena?”

| It doesn’t matter if you signed nondisclosures but if mash is not lying
| about everything and she knows things about ibogaine that nobody else
| does and someone dies in a situation that could have been avoided if she
| did what she claims she is doing, studying ibogaine instead of getting
| rich. the blood is on your hands too Patrick.

Highly excellent do0d.  I give it 10 shiny gold stars on the Histrionic
DramaMeter.  When you’re not drunk, you can be very lucid and articulate.

However, s’okay, blood washes off.  If you happen to get it on your
clothes, lemme mention that Tide with that Protein Lifting akshun and
Mountain Spring scent, works miracles.

| This is not a dis to you at all patrick, its something to think about.
| You do things that help other people you run the list, you speak out
| about ibogaine everywhere and not just Mash’s, your hacker subculture
| stronghold mindvox has become the ibogaine promotional service. you have
| got to have some problems with all this because you never say one word
| about healing visions, you personalize it and always back up mash even
| when shes full of shit. She’s not listening to anyone, she listens to
| you so mention to her that it may be great to publish some of that data
| if its so important.

Thanks do0d, I’m glad my life meets with your approval.  What is it that
YOU do again…?

I do not own any proprietary ibogaine research data, and thusly, it’s
completely pointless to toss this in my direction.  What is it that you
want from me…?  You know that ibogaine works, you know where to obtain
it, so your problem is…?

Yes there are various dangers inherent with using ibogaine.  To cop a line
from Paracelsus, “everything is poison, nothing is poison.”  Nothing is
absolutely safe, least of all any given day in the life of a junkie or
crackhead <shrug>.

To articulate my own OPINION; there seems to be an increasingly large
contingent of people dosing drug-dependent individuals with ibogaine,
under a wide variety of conditions.

The main question appears to be: what happens to any given individual who
experiences an adverse event — however you choose to define “adverse
event” — under the influence of ibogaine, if that situation is not
immediately dealt with (or even noticed, if no monitoring is taking
place).  Will they drop dead?

The answer seems to be: maybe, but probably not.  ‘Cuz if somewhere there
is a growing mountain of dead bodies, I’m not aware of it.

Whatever you wind up doing, YOU are ultimately responsible for YOU.  If
you want to dose with ibogaine, it’d be a great idea to at least give
yourself basic familiarity with what to expect, and read through the
ibogaine manual.

http://www.ibogaine.org/manual.html

| Or does she need to make another 10 million before she’s sure of the results?

Deborah has never made $10 dollars from ibogaine, much less anything
approaching $10 million.  HV is a dog with fleas in terms of cashflow;
factor in all the expenses of flying MD’s, counselors, shrinks, and
various other staff, to an island in the middle of nowhere, and what it
costs to get all of them to drop their practices and personal lives for
two weeks while they sit and spin on St. Kitts, and you arrive at breaking
even.

If you cannot afford St. Kitts, or the whole scenario is not to your
liking, well then: go somewhere else!  Big fucking deal.  The situation is
dramatically different than it was a few years ago; the prices for
ibogaine and ibogaine treatment start at NOTHING, and move upwards from
there depending on what you want, and where you’d like to go.  You have
many choices.

Ibogaine Treatment Centres and supply options

If Deborah’s publishing schedule is not to your liking, oh well.  The
problem is that she’s at the Department of Neurology, *not* the Department
of Ibogaine.  There doesn’t seem to be anybody who wants to fund anything
related to ibogaine, and gosh, running a department has expenses; thusly,
shit that pays the bills gets prioritized above the Holy Crusade, which
has never generated .5 fucking cents.

If you’d like to accelerate things, restart clinical trials within the
United States, and see ibogaine move forward a little faster than the
speed of a crawling snail: please feel free to send cash to the Ibogaine
Research Project.  It’s a registered 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization and
you can write it off on your taxes.

Or buy plane tickets for somebody who can’t afford it, to go see Marc.

If you just wanna bitch about shit <shrug> welcome to the human race, hope
it provides a nice catharsis.

Thanks for sharing,

Patrick

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] support granted
Date: January 20, 2003 at 11:45:33 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Howard,

your presentation at AATOD is MUCH more important than my presence
at NY conference – count on me, Iboga Foundation and Sacrament of
Transition!!

;-))

Marko

The NY conference is postponed anyway. What Howard needs is $2500 a
month to run his foundation.

Dana/cnw

From: brendan22@hushmail.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Star Dec. 24 (one day before JAMA)
Date: January 19, 2003 at 5:54:27 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yes you have, your exact message to the list 6 months ago was full of making fun of doctors from other countries and being given ibogaine on a cot somewhere. If it helps I’ll reprint your exact message for you. I don’t see the point because you’re some guy who talks to the star. What did you think they would do write a accurate story? And your message still has the same line of bullshit. ‘I seek nothing in return’. oh bullshit.

Patrick who is this moron?

I don’t even need to ask that question because I know what the answer will be. Nothing. Which is a improvement over Mash who is really candid in answering all questions. Except nothing she says has anything to do with the truth. It’s a lot of hot air. To put it nicely if not putting it nicely she lies alot.

What healing visions does is detox rich people. If anyone ever got honest about that nobody would care, so detox rich people. Instead its always this we’re saving the world bullshit. No your not, Mash wants all the glory all the fame and all the money. She’s a top scientist who spreads fear and doubt about how dangerous ibogaine is everyone she talks to, read the JAMA article. Nobody except her can safely give it and she’s a scientist who doesn’t publish anything about ibogaine.

Patrick this one’s for you. It doesn’t matter what your relationship is with mash, its obvious that its all personal and nothing to do with anything else, but your entire life history is pulling skeletons out of everyone’s closets. You people get indicted and a month later General Donn B. Parker from SRI is being investigated for using research money to buy escorts, his phone lines go to a escort agency and then he resigns and that case is dismissed because their main witness won’t testify against you. This is one case out of many. I wont go on with this but you people always get everything on everyone. I’m sure there isn’t a computer or telephone with 10 miles of you that is’nt 0wned.

It doesn’t matter if you signed nondisclosures but if mash is not lying about everything and she knows things about ibogaine that nobody else does and someone dies in a situation that could have been avoided if she did what she claims she is doing, studying ibogaine instead of getting rich. the blood is on your hands too Patrick. Because you know better and you never know anything about anything.

This is not a dis to you at all patrick, its something to think about. You do things that help other people you run the list, you speak out about ibogaine everywhere and not just Mash’s, your hacker subculture stronghold mindvox has become the ibogaine promotional service. you have got to have some problems with all this because you never say one word about healing visions, you personalize it and always back up mash even when shes full of shit. She’s not listening to anyone, she listens to you so mention to her that it may be great to publish some of that data if its so important.

Or does she need to make another 10 million before she’s sure of the results?

On Sun, 19 Jan 2003 07:16:02 -0800 AQUIS18@aol.com wrote:
Reality.. I never made those quotes to the Star. I also have nothing
to do
with finaces at Healing Visions .I seek nothing in return. I have
never
knocked anyone elses program . This bashing serves no purpose at
all.I am
just a advisory MD to Healing Visions. I dont set the price or profit
from
it. Please remember  that Healing Visions program is a two week
deal. The
higher price covers housing, food, Meds, counseling, therapy, medical
care (
labs s EKG’s etc..) and follow -up.

Before calling me a ibo pimp and dealer, you should know the facts.

Lets work together please.

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Big $$$ to be made with the HushMail Affiliate Program:
https://www.hushmail.com/about.php?subloc=affiliate&l=427

From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine and antipsychotic drugs
Date: January 19, 2003 at 1:05:07 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Thu, 16 Jan 2003, Hattie wrote:

on 1/13/03 11:09 AM, preston peet at ptpeet@nyc.rr.com wrote:

I am guessing and was wondering basically if there are any contraindications
with antipsychotic drugs, any physical dangers for him. And also whether
anyone knows if it would block the psychoactive effects of the ibogaine.

I am not aware of any physical dangers resulting from the combination of
antipsychotics with ibogaine. However, the patient would need to be off
the risperidol for some time prior to the administration of ibogaine for
it to be effective. Antipsychotics will indeed block at least some of
ibogaine’s actions.

__________________________________________________________________________
Jon Freedlander       userpages.umbc.edu/~jfreed1
Consulting Editor
Journal of Drug Education and Awareness
http://www.novapublishers.com/journals/drugawareness.html
–                                                                        –
————————————————————————–
“We are all prisoners of our minds. This realization is the first step
on the journey to freedom.”
— Ram Dass

From: AQUIS18@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Star Dec. 24 (one day before JAMA)
Date: January 19, 2003 at 10:16:02 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Reality.. I never made those quotes to the Star. I also have nothing to do with finaces at Healing Visions .I seek nothing in return. I have never knocked anyone elses program . This bashing serves no purpose at all.I am just a advisory MD to Healing Visions. I dont set the price or profit from it. Please remember  that Healing Visions program is a two week deal. The higher price covers housing, food, Meds, counseling, therapy, medical care ( labs s EKG’s etc..) and follow -up.

Before calling me a ibo pimp and dealer, you should know the facts.

Lets work together please.

From: “booker w” <swbooker@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Turning Curious Teens Into Crackheads
Date: January 18, 2003 at 9:17:54 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Actually I be a lady from Portland Oregon.  I was a secretary of an AA meeting for over a year, always identified myself as an addict, and spoke many times about pain meds as my drug of choice.  I guess there are some hardcore AA meetings around Portland, but meetings are usually identified as being “open” or “closed” and the open ones really don’t give a rip what your drug of choice is, it’s just about recovery.  It seems like if a person is interested in 12 step stuff, part of the trip is finding folks and meetings that do feel like “good energy” to you and that fit your nature.  If you can’t find it, then it must be somewhere else or somehow else…(as in something besides the 12 steps).  Best, Sandy

>From: Nicholas Labus

>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Turning Curious Teens Into Crackheads

>Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 11:18:24 -0800 (PST)

>

>

>is this the dude from sacred heart when you said they don’t give a rip either you are from cali or michigan SHRC

> booker w wrote:

>I agree with you about that issue of people concerning themselves with your business when it comes to 12 step stuff. The “literature” on NA says pretty clearly that whatever meds a person takes is between them, their physician and their “higher power.” It’s really no one’s business what you do and also there are plenty of folks in the program on maintenance stuff here in my town. I also know some meth addicts in the program who suffer from ADD and are basically taking prescription speed as prescribed by their doctor.

>

>Truthfully, (and I don’t want to push any 12-step stuff on anyone) but the AA meetings I’ve gone to are about a thousand percent more positive and open to “whatever works,” than I’ve ever found NA. I’ve never been an alcoholic, but no one gives a rip and half or more of the folks there now are opiate or coke addicts. So, if you do like a meeting now and then you might want to try the AA meetings instead.

>

>I also think people who are managing to stay clean are just afraid of relapsing, and if you tell someone they might use a different way than what’s working for them, they freak. I think staying clean no matter how, is damn difficult, for me anyway. No doubt the steps have given me some great tools, but just like christianity, the people who represent the ideas are often its greatest detractors. Doesn’t mean the ideas aren’t useful. (Please don’t confuse me with being a christian. My reaction to that subject is similar to Patrick’s to the 12 steps..)

>

>On the other hand,I’m definitely interesting in hearing from anyone who’s taken a low dose of ibogaine over a period of time to arrest cravings. I’m just not up to a full-blown ibogaine session again, but I would sure like to revisit iboga and that feeling of no craving for a while. Anyone got any advice? Does a low dose still cause some tripping? I am supersensitive to all drugs, ibogaine included. Any advice appreciated…

>

>Best wishes to all, Sandy Watson

>

>

> >From: Bernard C Phifer >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com >To: ibogaine@mindvox.com >CC: chimp@zwallet.com >Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Turning Curious Teens Into Crackheads >Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 12:13:31 -0500 > > I know exactly what you mean. I go to meetings sometimes and i fucked up and told them i was on methadone. I was shunned,looked down upon and told i was still using. NA here in North Carolina was started by a bunch of people who were on methadone. Now it seems like most of the people there never even used dope (heroin). It mostly consists of crack heads and pot smoking teenagers. It is very clicky and there is a big conform vibe. If you don’t dress like us listen to our music and get your tounge pierced we wont accept you into the circle. I just don’t get anything out of it > > thanx > > B > >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com > >Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 17:44:45 -0800 > >To: ibogaine@mindvox.com > >Cc: > >From: crownofthorns@hushmail.com > >Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Turning Curious Teens Into Crackheads > > > > > >That’s the big problem with all this bro, you hit it exactly. I am against the whole treatment pimp concept of drug treatment which I find very personally offensive and disgusting. But as I said I do go to groups once in a while. What is so hard about th>at is that my experience with that is exactly what you just said. I am either of the cult or I am not. I have found it impossible to go to any meeting once in a while and then come back there without even ever being a big member or anything, without havi>ng all these people try to save me when I am not trying to be saved, I’m doing good I maybe wanted to go unload a little somewhere but I find I have to go to a different meeting every time. > > > >It’s not so bad right now and not something I think about very much because I’ve been in a good space for at least 6 months now, but when I was struggling it was always the exact thing you described. If I make a choice to do something other than the twel>ve steps it is not like anyone wishes me well or even accepts it, I am right away on some enemy of the cult list and have people saying I’m doing all these things because I left their group. > > > >It is impossible to take what you find useful and leave the rest. Maybe this is not how it’s meant to be but none of the 12 step groups I have ever been to where about people helping each other and accepting different answers. You are either in or you’re> on the enemy list. It’s their way or you are lost. And that is a cult, not a self help group. > > > >Peace out, > >Curtis > >

>

>———————————

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>

>

>———————————

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From: Nicholas Labus <goosebumpz2002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Turning Curious Teens Into Crackheads
Date: January 18, 2003 at 2:18:24 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

is this  the dude from sacred heart  when you said they don’t give a rip either you are from cali or michigan SHRC
booker w <swbooker@hotmail.com> wrote:
I agree with you about that issue of people concerning themselves with your business when it comes to 12 step stuff.  The “literature” on NA says pretty clearly that whatever meds a person takes is between them, their physician and their “higher power.”  It’s really no one’s business what you do and also there are plenty of folks in the program on maintenance stuff here in my town.  I also know some meth addicts in the program who suffer from ADD and are basically taking prescription speed as prescribed by their doctor.
Truthfully, (and I don’t want to push any 12-step stuff on anyone) but the AA meetings I’ve gone to are about a thousand percent more positive and open to “whatever works,” than I’ve ever found NA.  I’ve never been an alcoholic, but no one gives a rip and half or more of the folks there now are opiate or coke addicts.  So, if you do like a meeting now and then you might want to try the AA meetings instead.
I also think people who are managing to stay clean are just afraid of relapsing, and if you tell someone they might use a different way than what’s working for them, they freak.  I think staying clean no matter how, is damn difficult, for me anyway.  No doubt the steps have given me some great tools, but just like christianity, the people who represent the ideas are often its greatest detractors.  Doesn’t mean the ideas aren’t useful. (Please don’t confuse me with being a christian.  My reaction to that subject is similar to Patrick’s to the 12 steps..)
On the other hand,I’m definitely interesting in hearing from anyone who’s taken a low dose of ibogaine over a period of time to arrest cravings.  I’m just not up to a full-blown ibogaine session again, but I would sure like to revisit iboga and that feeling of no craving for a while.  Anyone got any advice?  Does a low dose still cause some tripping?  I am supersensitive to all drugs, ibogaine included. Any advice appreciated…
Best wishes to all,  Sandy Watson

>From: Bernard C Phifer

>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>CC: chimp@zwallet.com

>Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Turning Curious Teens Into Crackheads

>Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 12:13:31 -0500

>

> I know exactly what you mean. I go to meetings sometimes and i fucked up and told them i was on methadone. I was shunned,looked down upon and told i was still using. NA here in North Carolina was started by a bunch of people who were on methadone. Now it seems like most of the people there never even used dope (heroin). It mostly consists of crack heads and pot smoking teenagers. It is very clicky and there is a big conform vibe. If you don’t dress like us listen to our music and get your tounge pierced we wont accept you into the circle. I just don’t get anything out of it

>

> thanx

>

> B

> >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

> >Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 17:44:45 -0800

> >To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

> >Cc:

> >From: crownofthorns@hushmail.com

> >Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Turning Curious Teens Into Crackheads

> >

> >

> >That’s the big problem with all this bro, you hit it exactly. I am against the whole treatment pimp concept of drug treatment which I find very personally offensive and disgusting. But as I said I do go to groups once in a while. What is so hard about th>at is that my experience with that is exactly what you just said. I am either of the cult or I am not. I have found it impossible to go to any meeting once in a while and then come back there without even ever being a big member or anything, without havi>ng all these people try to save me when I am not trying to be saved, I’m doing good I maybe wanted to go unload a little somewhere but I find I have to go to a different meeting every time.

> >

> >It’s not so bad right now and not something I think about very much because I’ve been in a good space for at least 6 months now, but when I was struggling it was always the exact thing you described. If I make a choice to do something other than the twel>ve steps it is not like anyone wishes me well or even accepts it, I am right away on some enemy of the cult list and have people saying I’m doing all these things because I left their group.

> >

> >It is impossible to take what you find useful and leave the rest. Maybe this is not how it’s meant to be but none of the 12 step groups I have ever been to where about people helping each other and accepting different answers. You are either in or you’re> on the enemy list. It’s their way or you are lost. And that is a cult, not a self help group.

> >

> >Peace out,

> >Curtis

> >

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From: Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si>
Subject: [ibogaine] heroin in clothes
Date: January 18, 2003 at 11:05:35 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi all,

have you seen
http://www.nj.com/search/index.ssf?/base/news-6/104278762279370.xml?starledger

A new blend: Cotton, rayon and heroin
Smugglers slip drug-soaked clothes through ports
Friday, January 17, 2003
BY ROBERT RUDOLPH
Star-Ledger Staff
Federal authorities in New Jersey say a stealthy new technique for smuggling drugs into the country is on the rise and is flooding the metropolitan area with a half-billion dollars worth of high-quality heroin each year.
According to investigators, increasingly large quantities of drugs have been slipping past inspectors, concealed in seemingly ordinary clothing — only these clothes have been specially prepared and impregnated with liquid heroin that can be extracted once the clothes arrive in the United States

(AND SO ON…)

Marko

From: Eaquinet@aol.com
Subject: Fwd: [ibogaine] ibogaine and antipsychotic drugs
Date: January 17, 2003 at 6:49:04 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

From: Eaquinet@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine and antipsychotic drugs
Date: January 16, 2003 at 12:24:44 PM EST
To: eaquinet@aol.com

Hi, I’m responding to the questions on the list about crack psychosis and the use of anti-psychotic drugs, specif. Risperidone (Risperdal). I am a psychiatric nurse practitioner so can give you some facts, which you can also get yourself in any good drug book such as a PDR or any drug book written for nurses (almost every major health publisher has one). First of all, crack psychosis (like amphetamine psychosis) SHOULD be a temporary phenomenon. Kind of like a delirium which is an altered state of consciousness (usu. w/disorientation, maybe physical stuff like incontinence and ataxia, and “psychotic” symptoms such as delusions, hallucinations, agitation, etc.) Anything that is a delirium has a cause which needs to be identified (in this case, use of crack), and when discontinued or rectified, the delirium should (in varying amounts of time depending on the cause) clear. For ex., many drugs (even cardiovascular and gastrointestinal drugs) can cause delirium, toxic levels of drugs (even “common” drugs for “medical” conditions) can do so also (particularly in vulnerable people such as the elderly, those w/impaired renal/hepatic function, dehydration, etc), fever can cause delirium as can nutritional imbalances, dehydration, and even infection such as UTIs and URIs. So, if the person’s psychosis is caused by crack use, it should clear when the crack gets out of their body. The experience can really shake people up though where they may need restorative care afterwards, and espec. if their chronic use and/or lifestyle has caused their physical health to be run down anyway. Like, they may need hydration, GOOD nutrition including supplements, rest, calming mental activities, etc.  Drugslike Risperidone are primarily used for people who have more organic disease-caused reasons for psychosis, such as people w/schizophrenia, people w/bipolar disorder who get manic alot, and people w/dementias who have psychotic symptoms. A dementia can look alot like delirium except it comes on slowly, is very global (affects all aspects of cognition, emotion, behavior), and won’t clear by identifying the cause and fixing it. Cause dementia’s by definition are organic processes that generally don’t get better cause actual permanent brain changes are occurring (such as in Alzheimers, people w/strokes, Parkinsons, end-stage syphilis, and other  causes of dementia). Risperidone is a powerful medication which has some potentially very dangerous side effects such a neuroleptic malignancy syndrome which can be fatal, abnormal involuntary movement disorders, blood dyscrasias, cardiac arrythmias, and many more. It’s not something that should be prescribed without much careful attention to diagnosis  and of course frequent follow-up. If it were being used for crack psychosis I would assume it would be used for a short time, just until the crack really exited the person’s body and there were other restorative treatments being given (as above). It would be quite unusual for someone to have permanent psychosis from using crack. Normal doses of Risperidone are 1 mg. bid to a max of about 4-6 mg. bid (twice a day). It is supplied in an oral form which is 1mg/1cc (1 mg.of medicine in every 1 cc (or ml–same thing)of the fluid).  welll, i hope this is helpful. If there is anything else i can help w/, especially in the realm of medical/psychiatric issues, please let me know. Many blessings to you and your work, Eliana Quinet, RN,MS,CS

From: MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fwd: Small World!
Date: January 17, 2003 at 4:41:43 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

We gave $4,000 to Green Leaf in Israel for the election campaign to pay for
some advertising. Election is in about 10 days.

Marc Emery

—– Original Message —–
From: “Dana Beal” <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, January 17, 2003 12:02 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Fwd: Small World!

Another cryptic reference to the bio-war aspect of the ibogaine
phenomenon. Boaz, of course, is with Humatech, the patentholder that
is doing the Israeli clinical trial, and with Howard Lotsof recently
completed the treatment protocol mentioned inJAMA.

Dana/cnw

Delivered-To: dana@cures-not-wars.org
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0
X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: mitch-h@mindspring.com via shiva
X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.13 (Clear:SA:0(0.1/5.0):. Processed in 1.490184 secs)
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 08:12:28 -0800
From: Mitchell Halberstadt <mitch-h@mindspring.com>
Reply-To: mitch-h@mindspring.com
X-Accept-Language: en,es,fr,de,zh,it
To: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: Small World!
Status:

Dana,

Received the following as part of Weinberg’s weekly email “World War 3
Report.” Now it’s clear why you mentioned that Boaz was busy with an
election! How’d he do?

— Mitchell

NEW ISRAELI POLITICAL PARTY: FORGET THE WAR, LET’S GET HIGH!

Israel’s pro-marijuana Green Leaf Party  failed to get the 1.5% of the
vote
needed to enter the Knesset in 1999, but polls predict it might get two
seats in this year’s upcoming elections. Said Shmuel Sandler, political
science professor at Tel Aviv University: “People are very disappointed
by
the peace process, and it’s sort of an escape. They are frustrated with
the
Left, but they’re not going to vote for the Right, so this is a nice way
of
getting out of this dilemma.” Biking through Jerusalem, Green Leaf
activists hand out stickers to cheering motorists. Party chairman Boaz
Wachtel is no typical hippie. He was the assistant military attache at
the
embassy in Washington in the 1980s and served on a team of
representatives
to President Ronald Reagan’s “Star Wars” program. (Jerusalem Post, Jan.
2)

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fwd: Small World!
Date: January 17, 2003 at 3:02:09 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Another cryptic reference to the bio-war aspect of the ibogaine
phenomenon. Boaz, of course, is with Humatech, the patentholder that
is doing the Israeli clinical trial, and with Howard Lotsof recently
completed the treatment protocol mentioned inJAMA.

Dana/cnw

Delivered-To: dana@cures-not-wars.org
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0
X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: mitch-h@mindspring.com via shiva
X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.13 (Clear:SA:0(0.1/5.0):. Processed in 1.490184 secs)
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 08:12:28 -0800
From: Mitchell Halberstadt <mitch-h@mindspring.com>
Reply-To: mitch-h@mindspring.com
X-Accept-Language: en,es,fr,de,zh,it
To: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: Small World!
Status:

Dana,

Received the following as part of Weinberg’s weekly email “World War 3
Report.” Now it’s clear why you mentioned that Boaz was busy with an
election! How’d he do?

— Mitchell

NEW ISRAELI POLITICAL PARTY: FORGET THE WAR, LET’S GET HIGH!

Israel’s pro-marijuana Green Leaf Party  failed to get the 1.5% of the vote
needed to enter the Knesset in 1999, but polls predict it might get two
seats in this year’s upcoming elections. Said Shmuel Sandler, political
science professor at Tel Aviv University: “People are very disappointed by
the peace process, and it’s sort of an escape. They are frustrated with the
Left, but they’re not going to vote for the Right, so this is a nice way of
getting out of this dilemma.” Biking through Jerusalem, Green Leaf
activists hand out stickers to cheering motorists. Party chairman Boaz
Wachtel is no typical hippie. He was the assistant military attache at the
embassy in Washington in the 1980s and served on a team of representatives
to President Ronald Reagan’s “Star Wars” program. (Jerusalem Post, Jan. 2)

From: “Sandra ruby” <windforme@graffiti.net>
Subject: [ibogaine] about OCD & Ibogaine…
Date: January 17, 2003 at 2:22:33 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m wondering if anybody has heard about OCD (obsessive compulsive disorder) being a contraindication for Ibogaine treatment?
or endometriosis ?
What about use of Xanax and/or Trazadone ?
Any comments are greatly appreciated.

Thanx,
Sandra
Iboga Therapy House

____________________________________________________
Get your free email from http://www.graffiti.net
Powered by Outblaze

From: bernard phifer <slack@hipplanet.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] place me on the ibogaine list please
Date: January 17, 2003 at 11:49:37 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hi sheldon,

i’m going to see mark at the end of january. i’m kind of scared about doing ibo i’ve read alot about it and i’ve done alot of psychadelics in the past. i don’t know maybe i’m just feeling anxious about it my girlfriend went to see sara in amsterdam in august and did her first treatment there she had no visions we thought it could be because she didn’t do a large enough dose. i want to get the full effect i want to meet the bewiti you know the full experience. please tell me how it was for you? how much did you take does mark give ibogaine or iboga root bark what is the difference as far as the experience goes would you rather do root or hydrochloride?

thanx B

— message from Jaden Harder <jadensheldon@yahoo.ca> attached:

_____________________________________________________________
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From: Jaden Harder <jadensheldon@yahoo.ca>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] place me on the ibogaine list please
Date: January 16, 2003 at 1:53:11 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Bernard
My name is Sheldon and I just finished my third Ibogaine session with Marc Emery.If you have any questions then I can answer them as best I can. There is a plethora of people on the list who are schooled and will talk to you as well.
Bernard C Phifer <chimp@zwallet.com> wrote:
please i’m interested in getting ibogaine treatment but need help. i guess i just want some people to talk with about this also. anyway please help if you can.

______________________________________________________
Get Paid… With Your Free Email at
http://www.zwallet.com/index.html?user=chimp

 

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From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fw: Drug & Alcohol Testing Products & Services, & Pre employment Assessments
Date: January 17, 2003 at 9:08:14 AM EST
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Cc: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

LOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I got this in my box just now, and thought I’d share.
Peace,
Preston (anyone for a Salvia test? “What color is Salvia? How many pointy
leaves does it have? Does it taste good? Is it better for tripping than
LSD?” LOL)

—– Original Message —–
From: ronjk@bellsouth.net
To: ptpeet@drugwar.com
Sent: Friday, January 17, 2003 8:42 AM
Subject: Fw: Drug & Alcohol Testing Products & Services, & Pre employment
Assessments

Hello,

We would like to become your vendor and we are a nationwide provider  for
drug & alcohol testing products and services.  Our website is
www.american-medical.net

Here is what we offer:

SERVICES
*Over  11,000 collection sites natiowide
*On-site Drug Testing
*24 Hour  Post accident & Reasonable Suspicion Drug Testing
*DOT Consortium Services
*DOT Physicals
*Hair Drug Testing
*Respirator Fit Testing, Pulmonary Function Testing & Audiometric Testing
*Background Checks

PRODUCTS
*New Integrated Drug Screen Cup & Cards
*Saliva Drug Test
*Employment Assessments
*Saliva Alcohol Test
*Pregnancy & Ovulation Tests

If you are using any of the following products or services please consider
us for a vendor.

Very Truly Yours,

American Medical Corporation, Inc.
Ph: 1(866)526-2873
www.american-medical.net

From: “booker w” <swbooker@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Turning Curious Teens Into Crackheads
Date: January 16, 2003 at 6:31:20 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I agree with you about that issue of people concerning themselves with your business when it comes to 12 step stuff.  The “literature” on NA says pretty clearly that whatever meds a person takes is between them, their physician and their “higher power.”  It’s really no one’s business what you do and also there are plenty of folks in the program on maintenance stuff here in my town.  I also know some meth addicts in the program who suffer from ADD and are basically taking prescription speed as prescribed by their doctor.
Truthfully, (and I don’t want to push any 12-step stuff on anyone) but the AA meetings I’ve gone to are about a thousand percent more positive and open to “whatever works,” than I’ve ever found NA.  I’ve never been an alcoholic, but no one gives a rip and half or more of the folks there now are opiate or coke addicts.  So, if you do like a meeting now and then you might want to try the AA meetings instead.
I also think people who are managing to stay clean are just afraid of relapsing, and if you tell someone they might use a different way than what’s working for them, they freak.  I think staying clean no matter how, is damn difficult, for me anyway.  No doubt the steps have given me some great tools, but just like christianity, the people who represent the ideas are often its greatest detractors.  Doesn’t mean the ideas aren’t useful. (Please don’t confuse me with being a christian.  My reaction to that subject is similar to Patrick’s to the 12 steps..)
On the other hand,I’m definitely interesting in hearing from anyone who’s taken a low dose of ibogaine over a period of time to arrest cravings.  I’m just not up to a full-blown ibogaine session again, but I would sure like to revisit iboga and that feeling of no craving for a while.  Anyone got any advice?  Does a low dose still cause some tripping?  I am supersensitive to all drugs, ibogaine included. Any advice appreciated…
Best wishes to all,  Sandy Watson

>From: Bernard C Phifer

>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>CC: chimp@zwallet.com

>Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Turning Curious Teens Into Crackheads

>Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 12:13:31 -0500

>

> I know exactly what you mean. I go to meetings sometimes and i fucked up and told them i was on methadone. I was shunned,looked down upon and told i was still using. NA here in North Carolina was started by a bunch of people who were on methadone. Now it seems like most of the people there never even used dope (heroin). It mostly consists of crack heads and pot smoking teenagers. It is very clicky and there is a big conform vibe. If you don’t dress like us listen to our music and get your tounge pierced we wont accept you into the circle. I just don’t get anything out of it

>

> thanx

>

> B

> >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

> >Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 17:44:45 -0800

> >To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

> >Cc:

> >From: crownofthorns@hushmail.com

> >Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Turning Curious Teens Into Crackheads

> >

> >

> >That’s the big problem with all this bro, you hit it exactly. I am against the whole treatment pimp concept of drug treatment which I find very personally offensive and disgusting. But as I said I do go to groups once in a while. What is so hard about th>at is that my experience with that is exactly what you just said. I am either of the cult or I am not. I have found it impossible to go to any meeting once in a while and then come back there without even ever being a big member or anything, without havi>ng all these people try to save me when I am not trying to be saved, I’m doing good I maybe wanted to go unload a little somewhere but I find I have to go to a different meeting every time.

> >

> >It’s not so bad right now and not something I think about very much because I’ve been in a good space for at least 6 months now, but when I was struggling it was always the exact thing you described. If I make a choice to do something other than the twel>ve steps it is not like anyone wishes me well or even accepts it, I am right away on some enemy of the cult list and have people saying I’m doing all these things because I left their group.

> >

> >It is impossible to take what you find useful and leave the rest. Maybe this is not how it’s meant to be but none of the 12 step groups I have ever been to where about people helping each other and accepting different answers. You are either in or you’re> on the enemy list. It’s their way or you are lost. And that is a cult, not a self help group.

> >

> >Peace out,

> >Curtis

> >

The new MSN 8 is here: Try it free* for 2 months

From: Jaden Harder <jadensheldon@yahoo.ca>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] place me on the ibogaine list please
Date: January 16, 2003 at 1:53:11 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Bernard
My name is Sheldon and I just finished my third Ibogaine session with Marc Emery.If you have any questions then I can answer them as best I can. There is a plethora of people on the list who are schooled and will talk to you as well.
Bernard C Phifer <chimp@zwallet.com> wrote:
please i’m interested in getting ibogaine treatment but need help. i guess i just want some people to talk with about this also. anyway please help if you can.

______________________________________________________
Get Paid… With Your Free Email at
http://www.zwallet.com/index.html?user=chimp

 

Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals

From: bernard phifer <slack@hipplanet.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine and antipsychotic drugs
Date: January 16, 2003 at 12:08:01 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I have a friend who is on resperidol but they don’t take it all the time they have done ibogaine but they were not taking the resperidol when they took the ibo and everything was fine i would say for them to talk with there doctor about stopping the resperidol before they took the ibo but i’m not a doctor and don’t know much about these things
thanx B
— MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca> wrote:
I also have someone who is being given Risperdone who wants to take ibogaine
to get off the withdrawl she feels from stopping the use of Risperdone. I
don’t know what to do here.

Marc Emery
Iboga Therapy House

—– Original Message —–
From: “Hattie” <epoptica@freeuk.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 4:34 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine and antipsychotic drugs

on 1/13/03 11:09 AM, preston peet at ptpeet@nyc.rr.com wrote:

I was wondering whether anyone can help. Someone has contacted me wanting
to
do ibogaine who has been suffering a crack induced psychosis. As a result
he
is on antipsychotic drugs – 2ml 2 times a day of RISPERDONE. He knows I am
not currently facilitating sessions but wanted my advice.

My initial response was to advise against on principle that taking a
strong
psychoactive to help deal with an incidence of psychosis was generally not
a
good idea! Then thinking about it I thought that perhaps the risperdone
would merely block the psychoactive effects of ibogaine.

I am guessing and was wondering basically if there are any
contraindications
with antipsychotic drugs, any physical dangers for him. And also whether
anyone knows if it would block the psychoactive effects of the ibogaine.

The guy is in a catch 22. He wants to give up drugs because they are
making
him mad (in his words) and yet the one thing that may help may also
interact
badly with the drugs he is taking to control the madness! He has said that
he missed taking the medication a few times and suffered no psychotic
effects. His episode of psychosis involved voices in his head among other
uncomfortable physical effects. I asked him why he hasn’t tried coming off
the medication and he said that he only saw the psychiatrist every 3
months
and the last visit was uneventful and no suggestions to come of the drugs
were given.

Can anyone give more info on crack induced psychosis?

Could he take the ibogaine on top of the medication, or should he come off
the medication, or should he completely avoid taking ibogaine.

Any medical and psychiatric advice would be most welcome.

Thanks

Hattie

PS He is using crack, heroin and methadone daily

_____________________________________________________________
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From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine and antipsychotic drugs
Date: January 16, 2003 at 2:10:20 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hHey all,
Hold on a sec…a professional doctor put someone on an anti-psychotic
drug for cocaine psychosis? (re: below questions on Risperdone/crack
psychosis) That is the very first time I’ve ever heard anything even
remotely like that. A doctor is treating cocaine psychosis with an
anti-psychotic drug…hmmm, is it helping, do you know? I mean, can and does
the person seeking treatment use crack while on this Risperdone and not
suffer psychosis?
That was some of the very worst part of cocaine abuse in my own case,
and a very big huge gargantuan part of the reason I really, really wanted
off cocaine when I stopped using it. Is it the cocaine or the cut that
causes that, if you’ll allow me to get slightly off the topic?
I can only say from personal long past experience that servere cocaine
psychosis, and I mean to the point where I was absolutely out of my gourd
psychosis-ridden each and every time I shot up, passes fairl soon after the
rush, in some cases maybe after an hour or two has passed in rare
occaisions, at least until the user used again, in my case anyway.
Aren’t there a few hours somewhere when he/she’s not actually using
crack, and therefore not psychotic at those times?
I’m sorry for not being able to help at all with your questions on
risperdone, but at least the crack psychosis will usually not be a factor as
long as there’s no crack being used right before you treat with ibogaine, at
least I would imagine.
And thanks for your earlier reply to my questions about your experience
so far with relapses after treating people Marc. Your points about the
cocaine/crack addicts rings a bell or two. But I’ve found that in my case
and in the case of a few others’ I know as well, (granted just a few- and
there’s those still out using, say, happy to be on methadone in some
instances because now they can concentrate full time on getting their
cocaine/crack) similarly to my old opiate use situation, with cocaine I
finally reached a point where it was the lifestyle not the funding that
inspired me to stop, considering that for the last few years using both
substances I’d not had a penny usually at the beginning of each and every
day anyway, so not having any money and having to come up with it for each
shot was standard operating proceedure, not something that usually had me
ready to quit.
But you are also right about the money/temptation thing. With cocaine it
was always much, much harder, for quite some time too, to have money in my
hands and not have to deal with extreme cravings.
I’m really impressed with what you’re doing up there.
Peace,
Preston
“When the imagination is continually lead
to the brink of vice by a system of terror
and denunciations, people fling themselves
over the precipice from the mere dread of falling.”-
Sir Thomas Brown

—– Original Message —–
From: MARC
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 12:59 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine and antipsychotic drugs

I also have someone who is being given Risperdone who wants to take ibogaine
to get off the withdrawl she feels from stopping the use of Risperdone. I
don’t know what to do here.

Marc Emery
Iboga Therapy House

—– Original Message —–
From: “Hattie” <epoptica@freeuk.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 4:34 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine and antipsychotic drugs

on 1/13/03 11:09 AM, preston peet at ptpeet@nyc.rr.com wrote:

I was wondering whether anyone can help. Someone has contacted me wanting
to
do ibogaine who has been suffering a crack induced psychosis. As a result
he
is on antipsychotic drugs – 2ml 2 times a day of RISPERDONE. He knows I am
not currently facilitating sessions but wanted my advice.

My initial response was to advise against on principle that taking a
strong
psychoactive to help deal with an incidence of psychosis was generally not
a
good idea! Then thinking about it I thought that perhaps the risperdone
would merely block the psychoactive effects of ibogaine.

I am guessing and was wondering basically if there are any
contraindications
with antipsychotic drugs, any physical dangers for him. And also whether
anyone knows if it would block the psychoactive effects of the ibogaine.

The guy is in a catch 22. He wants to give up drugs because they are
making
him mad (in his words) and yet the one thing that may help may also
interact
badly with the drugs he is taking to control the madness! He has said that
he missed taking the medication a few times and suffered no psychotic
effects. His episode of psychosis involved voices in his head among other
uncomfortable physical effects. I asked him why he hasn’t tried coming off
the medication and he said that he only saw the psychiatrist every 3
months
and the last visit was uneventful and no suggestions to come of the drugs
were given.

Can anyone give more info on crack induced psychosis?

Could he take the ibogaine on top of the medication, or should he come off
the medication, or should he completely avoid taking ibogaine.

Any medical and psychiatric advice would be most welcome.

Thanks

Hattie

PS He is using crack, heroin and methadone daily

From: MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine and antipsychotic drugs
Date: January 16, 2003 at 12:59:12 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I also have someone who is being given Risperdone who wants to take ibogaine
to get off the withdrawl she feels from stopping the use of Risperdone. I
don’t know what to do here.

Marc Emery
Iboga Therapy House

—– Original Message —–
From: “Hattie” <epoptica@freeuk.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 4:34 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine and antipsychotic drugs

on 1/13/03 11:09 AM, preston peet at ptpeet@nyc.rr.com wrote:

I was wondering whether anyone can help. Someone has contacted me wanting
to
do ibogaine who has been suffering a crack induced psychosis. As a result
he
is on antipsychotic drugs – 2ml 2 times a day of RISPERDONE. He knows I am
not currently facilitating sessions but wanted my advice.

My initial response was to advise against on principle that taking a
strong
psychoactive to help deal with an incidence of psychosis was generally not
a
good idea! Then thinking about it I thought that perhaps the risperdone
would merely block the psychoactive effects of ibogaine.

I am guessing and was wondering basically if there are any
contraindications
with antipsychotic drugs, any physical dangers for him. And also whether
anyone knows if it would block the psychoactive effects of the ibogaine.

The guy is in a catch 22. He wants to give up drugs because they are
making
him mad (in his words) and yet the one thing that may help may also
interact
badly with the drugs he is taking to control the madness! He has said that
he missed taking the medication a few times and suffered no psychotic
effects. His episode of psychosis involved voices in his head among other
uncomfortable physical effects. I asked him why he hasn’t tried coming off
the medication and he said that he only saw the psychiatrist every 3
months
and the last visit was uneventful and no suggestions to come of the drugs
were given.

Can anyone give more info on crack induced psychosis?

Could he take the ibogaine on top of the medication, or should he come off
the medication, or should he completely avoid taking ibogaine.

Any medical and psychiatric advice would be most welcome.

Thanks

Hattie

PS He is using crack, heroin and methadone daily

From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Uhm…
Date: January 15, 2003 at 11:06:21 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.giantlavalamp.com/

dude, I’m a fan already!

LETS GO!

-gamma

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From: Hattie <epoptica@freeuk.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine and antipsychotic drugs
Date: January 15, 2003 at 7:34:36 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

on 1/13/03 11:09 AM, preston peet at ptpeet@nyc.rr.com wrote:

I was wondering whether anyone can help. Someone has contacted me wanting to
do ibogaine who has been suffering a crack induced psychosis. As a result he
is on antipsychotic drugs – 2ml 2 times a day of RISPERDONE. He knows I am
not currently facilitating sessions but wanted my advice.

My initial response was to advise against on principle that taking a strong
psychoactive to help deal with an incidence of psychosis was generally not a
good idea! Then thinking about it I thought that perhaps the risperdone
would merely block the psychoactive effects of ibogaine.

I am guessing and was wondering basically if there are any contraindications
with antipsychotic drugs, any physical dangers for him. And also whether
anyone knows if it would block the psychoactive effects of the ibogaine.

The guy is in a catch 22. He wants to give up drugs because they are making
him mad (in his words) and yet the one thing that may help may also interact
badly with the drugs he is taking to control the madness! He has said that
he missed taking the medication a few times and suffered no psychotic
effects. His episode of psychosis involved voices in his head among other
uncomfortable physical effects. I asked him why he hasn’t tried coming off
the medication and he said that he only saw the psychiatrist every 3 months
and the last visit was uneventful and no suggestions to come of the drugs
were given.

Can anyone give more info on crack induced psychosis?

Could he take the ibogaine on top of the medication, or should he come off
the medication, or should he completely avoid taking ibogaine.

Any medical and psychiatric advice would be most welcome.

Thanks

Hattie

PS He is using crack, heroin and methadone daily

From: “CCadden” <elgrekkko@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Uhm…
Date: January 15, 2003 at 6:10:50 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

It is a sign of the coming of the Antichrist. Be ready. I am on his side, so
I will be fine but most of you are fucked. Pay me money, and you will be
saved.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
To: <voxadm@mindvox.com>; <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 5:27 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Uhm…

This is so stupid, it’s brilliant.  Behold the wonder of it all.  I really
dig those mockups of What it Will bE:

http://www.giantlavalamp.com/

Patrick

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Uhm…
Date: January 15, 2003 at 5:27:41 PM EST
To: voxadm@mindvox.com, ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This is so stupid, it’s brilliant.  Behold the wonder of it all.  I really
dig those mockups of What it Will bE:

http://www.giantlavalamp.com/

Patrick

From: Bernard C Phifer <chimp@zwallet.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Turning Curious Teens Into Crackheads
Date: January 15, 2003 at 12:13:31 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: chimp@zwallet.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I know exactly what you mean. I go to meetings sometimes and i fucked up and told them i was on methadone. I was shunned,looked down upon and told i was still using. NA here in North Carolina was started by a bunch of people who were on methadone. Now it seems like most of the people there never even used dope (heroin). It mostly consists of crack heads and pot smoking teenagers. It is very clicky and there is a big conform vibe. If you don’t dress like us listen to our music and get your tounge pierced we wont accept you into the circle. I just don’t get anything out of it

thanx

B
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 17:44:45 -0800
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc:
From: crownofthorns@hushmail.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Turning Curious Teens Into Crackheads

That’s the big problem with all this bro, you hit it exactly. I am against the whole treatment pimp concept of drug treatment which I find very personally offensive and disgusting. But as I said I do go to groups once in a while. What is so hard about th>at is that my experience with that is exactly what you just said. I am either of the cult or I am not. I have found it impossible to go to any meeting once in a while and then come back there without even ever being a big member or anything, without havi>ng all these people try to save me when I am not trying to be saved, I’m doing good I maybe wanted to go unload a little somewhere but I find I have to go to a different meeting every time.

It’s not so bad right now and not something I think about very much because I’ve been in a good space for at least 6 months now, but when I was struggling it was always the exact thing you described. If I make a choice to do something other than the twel>ve steps it is not like anyone wishes me well or even accepts it, I am right away on some enemy of the cult list and have people saying I’m doing all these things because I left their group.

It is impossible to take what you find useful and leave the rest. Maybe this is not how it’s meant to be but none of the 12 step groups I have ever been to where about people helping each other and accepting different answers. You are either in or you’re> on the enemy list. It’s their way or you are lost. And that is a cult, not a self help group.

Peace out,
Curtis

On Sat, 11 Jan 2003 03:01:21 -0800 Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com> wrote:
— Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org> wrote:

US: Breaking Out Of The 12-Step Lockstep

But today, the recovery movement — with its emphasis on
childhood victimization, lifetime attendance at
12-step groups and complete abstinence from all psychoactive
substances — hasfallen from pop culture
favor.  “There was a time when it was almost the ‘in thing’ to

say you were in recovery,” says William
White, author of “Slaying the Dragon,” a history of addiction
treatment.  Thankfully, that is no longer the
case.

True as it is that 12 steps helped me through some really tough
times, I am
dis-associating myself from the 12 step scene, for many of the same
reasons put
forth in this essay by Maia that Dana Posted. Most people assume/believe
that
Bill Wilson devised the 12 steps with Dr Bob but when in fact these
principles
that so may 12 steppers hold so dear came directly from The Oxford
Group, a
religious, evangelical study group. to say NA is not religious is
completely
off-base when you take into account the number of times God is mentioned
in
just the 12 steps (11 out of 12).

but what turns our stomachs more and more is the self-rightous zeal
that many
long-time 12 step members have towards those of us who question
the “law”, or
have our own ideas about how recovery really works. We live in a
small, rural
setting and have experienced similar accusations as seen in the
the movie “The
Crucible”. Gosip becomes truth, and us evil-doers are cast out and
shunned by
the “true believers”.

There are some great books out there about recovery, and statistically
you have
a better chance of staying off dope by associating with people who
never had a
problem to begin with than to constantly go to meetings, continually
identifying yourself as an addict and tying yourself to the past.
Ozzy Osbourne
put it quite eloquently: “If I lost a leg, do I really want to spend
the rest
of my life sitting in a room with a bunch of one legged people?”(or
something
to that effect)

end rant.

-Gamma

__________________________________________________
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From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] T. elliptica
Date: January 15, 2003 at 9:19:47 AM EST
To: ibogaine@ibogaine.org, ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Anyone have info on T. elliptica – a very closely
related species to T. Iboga? Alkaloid profile, source
of seeds??? Seems it would be just as legal as my Star
Jasmine since it is not listed in the schedules of
controlled substances. I might entertain growing one
for FUN, not for the ibogaine contained in it – much
as I have a few other “interesting” but quite legal
plants (ie a San Pedro I rescued from Lowe’s for 4
bucks <g>)

http://www.ansci.cornell.edu/courses/as625/2001term/dauphine/taxonomy_of_iboga.html

snip

For nearly one hundred years, T. iboga remained the
only species in the genus Tabernanthe. However, in
1987, A.J.M. Leeuwenberg at the University of
Wageningen declared that the single-species genus
Daturicarpa elliptica Stapf. (Originally designated in
1921 from a specimen from Zaire) was in fact a synonym
of Tabernanthe (Leeuwenberg 1987). He based his
argument on the fact that the same key characters
differentiated both Tabernanthe and Daturicarpa from
Tabernaemontana, such that one was indistinguishable
from the other. In addition to its original
assignation of Daturicarpa elliptica, T. elliptica has
been described elsewhere in the literature under two
heterotrophic synonyms: D. lanceolata and D. firmula
(Vonk 1989).

T. iboga and T. elliptica are very readily confused.
They can be distinguished from each by their fruits.
T. elliptica is the only species of the tribe
Tabernaemontaneae in Africa with prickly fruit. T.
iboga’s smooth, slightly smaller fruits have a
distinctive orange color, edible pulp and rounded
seeds. When it is in flower, T. iboga may be
differentiated from T. elliptica by sepals that are
fully adnate to the corolla, as opposed to sepals that
are distinct or only partly adnate to the corolla
(Leeuwenberg 1987). The carpels of T. iboga are
connate while the capels of T. elliptica are nearly
(but not fully) distinct, united at the style and
basal disk. Finally, T. elliptica has between four and
seven pairs of secondary leaf veins, while T. iboga
has between seven and twenty pairs of secondary leaf

Brett

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] support granted
Date: January 15, 2003 at 9:14:32 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 1/15/03 2:46:14 AM, Iboga@guest.arnes.si writes:

Howard,

your presentation at AATOD is MUCH more important than my presence at NY
conference – count on me, Iboga Foundation and Sacrament of Transition!!

Thank you Marko but, do not count yourself out yet.  The AATOD conference is
certainly important <www.ibogaine.org/dc.html> and
<www.dorweiner.org/aatod.html>, however, there is a good chance there will be
a conference in Vancouver later in the year, a matter that Marc Emory and I
have just begun to discuss.

Once again thank you for recognizing the Washington, DC methadone conference
as an important venue for presenting on ibogaine.

Your friend,

Howard

From: Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si>
Subject: [ibogaine] support granted
Date: January 15, 2003 at 2:45:41 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Howard,

your presentation at AATOD is MUCH more important than my presence at NY conference – count on me, Iboga Foundation and Sacrament of Transition!!

;-))

Marko

At 01:51 15.1.2003, you wrote:
Dear list,

I have been provided a unique opportunity to present on ibogaine at the
largest methadone conference in the United States.  My topic is “Methadone
and Ibogaine:  A comparison of Patient Status and Advocacy Issues”.  The
American Association for the Treatment of Opioid Dependence (AATOD)
conference where I will be presenting will take place in Washington, DC,
April 13 – 16, 2003.  The workshop in which I will be presenting is titled
“Medication Assisted Treatment in Different Practice Settings.”…I guess
that sure says it!

Financial support for this project is needed to cover conference costs,
research, preparation of slides, handouts and other material including a
presentation brochure.  This is a very large conference.  Between 200 and 300
persons are anticipated to attend the workshop for which they can receive CME
or CEU credits.  These continuing education credits make the workshop more
attractive to conference participants.  This is the first time that ibogaine
will be presented at a major methadone conference.  Costs are approximated at
$7,500.00, and donations can be provided as tax deductible contributions to
the Dora Weiner Foundation.

This is a fantastic opportunity to get ibogaine and ibogaine patient
information to methadone patients, advocates, counselors, social workers and
treatment providers.  The National Alliance of Methadone Advocates (NAMA) is
also assisting in sponsoring this presentation as part of their workshop.
NAMA is the largest national and international association of methadone and
other opioid agonist treatment patients and advocates.  NAMA is a patients’
rights advocacy organization.

In addition to the benefits of providing ibogaine information to an important
international audience, donors of over $500.00 will be listed in the Ibogaine
Brochure to be distributed at the Workshop and may include contact
information and a web page address if desired.  The entire patient community
on both sides of the medication line will benefit from an ibogaine
presentation at a methadone conference.  This is a win win situation so
please make a donation.

For further information about the conference presentation and to learn about
the Dora Weiner Foundation’s mission goto:
<http://www.ibogaine.org/dc.html>.  From there link to the Dora Weiner
Foundation page from the link on <ibogaine.org/dc.html >.  If you want to
miss the fun, just goto <http://www.doraweiner.org/aatod.html> and work your
way to the donation page.   Or if you really don’t have time just write a
check or money order in US dollars on a US bank to THE DORA WEINER
FOUNDATION, 46 Oxford Place, Staten Island, NY 10301, USA.  And, please don’t
forget to mail it.  If you have any questions feel free to contact me.
Looking forward your responses.

Thanks

Howard

Howard S. Lotsof
President
Dora Weiner Foundation
46 Oxford Place
Staten Island, NY 10301
tel, 718 442-2754
fax, 718 442-1957
email dwf123@earthlink.com

From: crownofthorns@hushmail.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Turning Curious Teens Into Crackheads
Date: January 14, 2003 at 8:44:45 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

That’s the big problem with all this bro, you hit it exactly. I am against the whole treatment pimp concept of drug treatment which I find very personally offensive and disgusting. But as I said I do go to groups once in a while. What is so hard about that is that my experience with that is exactly what you just said. I am either of the cult or I am not. I have found it impossible to go to any meeting once in a while and then come back there without even ever being a big member or anything, without having all these people try to save me when I am not trying to be saved, I’m doing good I maybe wanted to go unload a little somewhere but I find I have to go to a different meeting every time.

It’s not so bad right now and not something I think about very much because I’ve been in a good space for at least 6 months now, but when I was struggling it was always the exact thing you described. If I make a choice to do something other than the twelve steps it is not like anyone wishes me well or even accepts it, I am right away on some enemy of the cult list and have people saying I’m doing all these things because I left their group.

It is impossible to take what you find useful and leave the rest. Maybe this is not how it’s meant to be but none of the 12 step groups I have ever been to where about people helping each other and accepting different answers. You are either in or you’re on the enemy list. It’s their way or you are lost. And that is a cult, not a self help group.

Peace out,
Curtis

On Sat, 11 Jan 2003 03:01:21 -0800 Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com> wrote:
— Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org> wrote:

US: Breaking Out Of The 12-Step Lockstep

But today, the recovery movement — with its emphasis on
childhood victimization, lifetime attendance at
12-step groups and complete abstinence from all psychoactive
substances — hasfallen from pop culture
favor.  “There was a time when it was almost the ‘in thing’ to

say you were in recovery,” says William
White, author of “Slaying the Dragon,” a history of addiction
treatment.  Thankfully, that is no longer the
case.

True as it is that 12 steps helped me through some really tough
times, I am
dis-associating myself from the 12 step scene, for many of the same
reasons put
forth in this essay by Maia that Dana Posted. Most people assume/believe
that
Bill Wilson devised the 12 steps with Dr Bob but when in fact these
principles
that so may 12 steppers hold so dear came directly from The Oxford
Group, a
religious, evangelical study group. to say NA is not religious is
completely
off-base when you take into account the number of times God is mentioned
in
just the 12 steps (11 out of 12).

but what turns our stomachs more and more is the self-rightous zeal
that many
long-time 12 step members have towards those of us who question
the “law”, or
have our own ideas about how recovery really works. We live in a
small, rural
setting and have experienced similar accusations as seen in the
the movie “The
Crucible”. Gosip becomes truth, and us evil-doers are cast out and
shunned by
the “true believers”.

There are some great books out there about recovery, and statistically
you have
a better chance of staying off dope by associating with people who
never had a
problem to begin with than to constantly go to meetings, continually
identifying yourself as an addict and tying yourself to the past.
Ozzy Osbourne
put it quite eloquently: “If I lost a leg, do I really want to spend
the rest
of my life sitting in a room with a bunch of one legged people?”(or
something
to that effect)

end rant.

-Gamma

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] support needed
Date: January 14, 2003 at 7:51:44 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear list,

I have been provided a unique opportunity to present on ibogaine at the
largest methadone conference in the United States.  My topic is “Methadone
and Ibogaine:  A comparison of Patient Status and Advocacy Issues”.  The
American Association for the Treatment of Opioid Dependence (AATOD)
conference where I will be presenting will take place in Washington, DC,
April 13 – 16, 2003.  The workshop in which I will be presenting is titled
“Medication Assisted Treatment in Different Practice Settings.”…I guess
that sure says it!

Financial support for this project is needed to cover conference costs,
research, preparation of slides, handouts and other material including a
presentation brochure.  This is a very large conference.  Between 200 and 300
persons are anticipated to attend the workshop for which they can receive CME
or CEU credits.  These continuing education credits make the workshop more
attractive to conference participants.  This is the first time that ibogaine
will be presented at a major methadone conference.  Costs are approximated at
$7,500.00, and donations can be provided as tax deductible contributions to
the Dora Weiner Foundation.

This is a fantastic opportunity to get ibogaine and ibogaine patient
information to methadone patients, advocates, counselors, social workers and
treatment providers.  The National Alliance of Methadone Advocates (NAMA) is
also assisting in sponsoring this presentation as part of their workshop.
NAMA is the largest national and international association of methadone and
other opioid agonist treatment patients and advocates.  NAMA is a patients’
rights advocacy organization.

In addition to the benefits of providing ibogaine information to an important
international audience, donors of over $500.00 will be listed in the Ibogaine
Brochure to be distributed at the Workshop and may include contact
information and a web page address if desired.  The entire patient community
on both sides of the medication line will benefit from an ibogaine
presentation at a methadone conference.  This is a win win situation so
please make a donation.

For further information about the conference presentation and to learn about
the Dora Weiner Foundation’s mission goto:
<http://www.ibogaine.org/dc.html>.  From there link to the Dora Weiner
Foundation page from the link on <ibogaine.org/dc.html >.  If you want to
miss the fun, just goto <http://www.doraweiner.org/aatod.html> and work your
way to the donation page.   Or if you really don’t have time just write a
check or money order in US dollars on a US bank to THE DORA WEINER
FOUNDATION, 46 Oxford Place, Staten Island, NY 10301, USA.  And, please don’t
forget to mail it.  If you have any questions feel free to contact me.
Looking forward your responses.

Thanks

Howard

Howard S. Lotsof
President
Dora Weiner Foundation
46 Oxford Place
Staten Island, NY 10301
tel, 718 442-2754
fax, 718 442-1957
email dwf123@earthlink.com

From: “David Minick” <dminick@adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Christ on High
Date: January 14, 2003 at 1:11:11 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Cc: <PsychonautUK@yahoogroups.com>>, <ibogaine@ibogaine.org>, <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, “Cc:” <paula@huffyberks.co.uk>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi everyone,
Although the subject is of some interest  and I dont want to completely pull
out of the loop could you please try to exclude me from conversations
between others or Godhead. I just want to be kept abreast and recieve more
info here and there tanks
—– Original Message —–
From: “patrick treloar” <ptreloar@tiscali.co.uk>
To: <Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 1:43 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Christ on High

No doubt many of you have already read the recent articles in the Sunday
Times or the Guardian, re the forthcoming High Times article by Chris
Bennett. In case you haven’t I’ve included some relevant links below. They
concern an article in February’s issue, in which Bennett provides
substantiated claims that Jesus used cannabis to heal the sick, perform
miracles and presumably, as a religious sacrement. Chris claims that it
was
used in a special oil called kaneh-bosem, and was apparently mixed with
Olive Oil at a ratio of 1lb per quart of oil, thereby making it absorbable
through the skin. Christ, it appears is derived from a Greek word meaning
the annointed one, and, it looks as though recipients of this healing were
literally drenched with the oil, which also contained other fragrant
herbs.

Readers of Mike Jay’s book, Blue Tide, will also be aware of the use of
Harmaline i.e. Syrian Rue, based sacraments in the Middle East area in
biblical times, and, of course there are the theories by Wasson et al re
Soma of Vedic scriptures. I’d be very interested to hear from anyone else
that might have anything else to contribute, especially on the use of
entheogens by Gnostic Christians and entheogen use in ‘Mystery Religions’
of
the christian and pre christian Greek, Egyption and Middle Eastern eras.

There was me feeling all sorry ‘cos those early Christians kept getting
stoned to death & all!

Laughter aside, if there is as much truth in this as we all do doubt
suspect
there is, it would surely constitute pretty much the cover-up of the
second
millenium, and means, as Chris points out (Dana Beal’s gonna love this
bit!), that “If cannabis was one of the main ingredients of the ancient
Christian anointing oil, as history indicates, and receiving this oil is
what made Jesus the Christ and his followers Christians, then persecuting
those who use cannabis could be considered anti-Christ.”

So then, was Jesus, as he claims, a stoner, or, as I deeply suspect
myself,
a fully fledged trip-nut?

Comments?

P@

http://education.guardian.co.uk/higher/sciences/story/0,12243,869489,00.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/2633187.stm

http://cannabisculture.com/articles/1670.html

From: MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] question for Marc at Iboga Therapy House
Date: January 14, 2003 at 12:38:14 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

What we are doing with a crack cocaine user now is a dose of 4,500 – 5,000
mg
INDRA-DK extract, at one time, this will always invoke visualization at the
90 minute mark for a period of not less than 8 hours to averaging 10 – 12
hours to a high end of 18 hours. After this period there is rest and quiet.
At about 36 hours after visualization ends there is a return to regular
activity. 24-36 hours after that quiet period, a typical reaction is
increasingly positive feeling/energy. However, we found that crack
cocaine users indeed only quit when it is no longer affordable, rather than
wanting to quit per se (that is, they want to quit because of family and
financial crises),
As soon as they had money in their hands, temptation flooded into their
brain.

I observed some cocaine users behave
normally until the responsibility of money is in their hands, then panic and
collapse. This lends credibility to the legalization theory that says free
or inexpensive legal cocaine is really whats required here. The crack
cocaine users seem improved by their ibogaine experience and the relapse
(they confess quite readily)  isn’t to the degree of previous usage, but
unless a change of will is brought forth, I am of the slippery slope
sensibility here. The opiate addicts show must greater appreciation, though
poly drug users are the norm any more. The opiate/methadone user usually is
tired of the ‘life’, has a more basic urge to change. However, I learn alot
about each person and so far have
enjoyed each experience with all the persons using ibogaine in our care. So
to deal with this we are providing a daily 20mg. ibogaine hydrochloride, to
be taken orally for 20 days after the initial serious experience. What I
notice thats fascinating about ibogaine is that every person we give it to
tells us that all ‘bad’ things taste terrible. Cigarettes taste awful, beer
tastes awful, sugar can taste awful. I am hoping the small daily doses
lengthen the effectiveness of the experience so that the patient can get
some momentum. We shall see.

If you have other questions, I will certainly oblige you of what I know.

Marc Emery
Iboga Therapy House

—– Original Message —–
From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, January 13, 2003 3:09 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] question for Marc at Iboga Therapy House

Marc wrote in response to claimed success rates-

From: MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
X-Priority: 3
Subject: [ibogaine] National Enquirer, “No one has relapsed”
Status:

“No one (out of 400) has relapsed.”

Oh, to have such results. I guess it cured all their problems, financial &
psychological, as well.

signed,
working in the real world,
Marc Emery
Iboga Therapy House<

Hi Marc,
I realize you’ve not had the Iboga Therapy House up and running for
too
long, but I’m curious: What sort of relapse rates are you seeing? Do you
see
any better results than those from the usual treatment models yet? I’m
sure
that kicking at the Iboga Therapy House must be much, much nicer for the
addicts than at most facilities, considering the descriptions of your
operation I’ve read, but what longer term results are you seeing so far?
Does it appear to you that using ibogaine/ etc to detox people is helping
afterwards, in other words, does it help people cope after kicking better
than other models of treatment? Or is it still too early to tell?
Peace,
Preston
“Words are, of course, the most powerful drug used by mankind.”
— Rudyard Kipling

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] search and translator functions
Date: January 13, 2003 at 1:33:09 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Search and translator functions have been added to the Ibogaine Dossier.  The
Dossier can now be searched by subject as well as, translated into French,
German, Spanish and some other languages.

http://www.ibogaine.org/whatsnew.html

Howard

Howard S. Lotsof
President
Dora Weiner Foundation
46 Oxford Place
Staten Island, NY 10301
718 442-2754, tel

From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] so why doesn’t this mention ibogaine?
Date: January 13, 2003 at 10:31:45 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

It does. But only as a footnote.

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

dana@cures-not-wars.org 01/10/03 04:28PM >>>

Pubdate: Sat, 01 Feb 2003
Copyright: 2003 The Walt Disney Company
Contact: editorial@discover.com
Source: Discover Magazine
Issue: Feb 2003
Website: www.discover.com
Address: 114 Fifth Avenue, New York, NY 10011
Author: John Horgan
Bookmark: http://www.mapinc.org/hallucinogens.htm (Hallucinogens)
Bookmark: http://www.mapinc.org/spirit.htm (Spiritual or Sacramental)

PEYOTE ON THE BRAIN

Is the Secret to Alcoholism and Other Addictions Locked Up in the
Hallucinogenic Drugs?

Even with several tablespoons of peyote in me, by 3 in the morning I’m
fading. For almost six hours I have been sitting in a tepee in the
Navajo
Nation, the largest Indian reservation in the United States, with 20
Navajo
men, women, and children. They belong to the Native American Church,
which
has 250,000 members nationwide. Everyone except the four children has
eaten
the ground-up tops, or buttons, of peyote, Lophophora williamsii. U.S.
law
classifies the squat cactus and its primary active ingredient,
mescaline, as
Schedule 1 substances, illegal to sell, possess, or ingest. The law
exempts
members of the Native American Church, who revere peyote as a sacred
medicine.

URL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v03.n042.a07.html

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] question for Marc at Iboga Therapy House
Date: January 13, 2003 at 6:09:56 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Marc wrote in response to claimed success rates-

From: MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
X-Priority: 3
Subject: [ibogaine] National Enquirer, “No one has relapsed”
Status:

“No one (out of 400) has relapsed.”

Oh, to have such results. I guess it cured all their problems, financial &
psychological, as well.

signed,
working in the real world,
Marc Emery
Iboga Therapy House<

Hi Marc,
I realize you’ve not had the Iboga Therapy House up and running for too
long, but I’m curious: What sort of relapse rates are you seeing? Do you see
any better results than those from the usual treatment models yet? I’m sure
that kicking at the Iboga Therapy House must be much, much nicer for the
addicts than at most facilities, considering the descriptions of your
operation I’ve read, but what longer term results are you seeing so far?
Does it appear to you that using ibogaine/ etc to detox people is helping
afterwards, in other words, does it help people cope after kicking better
than other models of treatment? Or is it still too early to tell?
Peace,
Preston
“Words are, of course, the most powerful drug used by mankind.”
— Rudyard Kipling

From: “patrick treloar” <ptreloar@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: [ibogaine] Christ on High
Date: November 12, 2002 at 4:43:22 PM EST
To: <PsychonautUK@yahoogroups.com>, <ibogaine@ibogaine.org>, <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Cc: <paula@huffyberks.co.uk>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

No doubt many of you have already read the recent articles in the Sunday
Times or the Guardian, re the forthcoming High Times article by Chris
Bennett. In case you haven’t I’ve included some relevant links below. They
concern an article in February’s issue, in which Bennett provides
substantiated claims that Jesus used cannabis to heal the sick, perform
miracles and presumably, as a religious sacrement. Chris claims that it was
used in a special oil called kaneh-bosem, and was apparently mixed with
Olive Oil at a ratio of 1lb per quart of oil, thereby making it absorbable
through the skin. Christ, it appears is derived from a Greek word meaning
the annointed one, and, it looks as though recipients of this healing were
literally drenched with the oil, which also contained other fragrant herbs.

Readers of Mike Jay’s book, Blue Tide, will also be aware of the use of
Harmaline i.e. Syrian Rue, based sacraments in the Middle East area in
biblical times, and, of course there are the theories by Wasson et al re
Soma of Vedic scriptures. I’d be very interested to hear from anyone else
that might have anything else to contribute, especially on the use of
entheogens by Gnostic Christians and entheogen use in ‘Mystery Religions’ of
the christian and pre christian Greek, Egyption and Middle Eastern eras.

There was me feeling all sorry ‘cos those early Christians kept getting
stoned to death & all!

Laughter aside, if there is as much truth in this as we all do doubt suspect
there is, it would surely constitute pretty much the cover-up of the second
millenium, and means, as Chris points out (Dana Beal’s gonna love this
bit!), that “If cannabis was one of the main ingredients of the ancient
Christian anointing oil, as history indicates, and receiving this oil is
what made Jesus the Christ and his followers Christians, then persecuting
those who use cannabis could be considered anti-Christ.”

So then, was Jesus, as he claims, a stoner, or, as I deeply suspect myself,
a fully fledged trip-nut?

Comments?

P@

http://education.guardian.co.uk/higher/sciences/story/0,12243,869489,00.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/2633187.stm

http://cannabisculture.com/articles/1670.html

From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Turning Curious Teens Into Crackheads
Date: January 11, 2003 at 6:01:21 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org> wrote:

US: Breaking Out Of The 12-Step Lockstep

But today, the recovery movement — with its emphasis on
childhood victimization, lifetime attendance at
12-step groups and complete abstinence from all psychoactive
substances — hasfallen from pop culture
favor.  “There was a time when it was almost the ‘in thing’ to
say you were in recovery,” says William
White, author of “Slaying the Dragon,” a history of addiction
treatment.  Thankfully, that is no longer the
case.

True as it is that 12 steps helped me through some really tough times, I am
dis-associating myself from the 12 step scene, for many of the same reasons put
forth in this essay by Maia that Dana Posted. Most people assume/believe that
Bill Wilson devised the 12 steps with Dr Bob but when in fact these principles
that so may 12 steppers hold so dear came directly from The Oxford Group, a
religious, evangelical study group. to say NA is not religious is completely
off-base when you take into account the number of times God is mentioned in
just the 12 steps (11 out of 12).

but what turns our stomachs more and more is the self-rightous zeal that many
long-time 12 step members have towards those of us who question the “law”, or
have our own ideas about how recovery really works. We live in a small, rural
setting and have experienced similar accusations as seen in the the movie “The
Crucible”. Gosip becomes truth, and us evil-doers are cast out and shunned by
the “true believers”.

There are some great books out there about recovery, and statistically you have
a better chance of staying off dope by associating with people who never had a
problem to begin with than to constantly go to meetings, continually
identifying yourself as an addict and tying yourself to the past. Ozzy Osbourne
put it quite eloquently: “If I lost a leg, do I really want to spend the rest
of my life sitting in a room with a bunch of one legged people?”(or something
to that effect)

end rant.

-Gamma

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] so why doesn’t this mention ibogaine?
Date: January 10, 2003 at 4:28:30 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Pubdate: Sat, 01 Feb 2003
Copyright: 2003 The Walt Disney Company
Contact: editorial@discover.com
Source: Discover Magazine
Issue: Feb 2003
Website: www.discover.com
Address: 114 Fifth Avenue, New York, NY 10011
Author: John Horgan
Bookmark: http://www.mapinc.org/hallucinogens.htm (Hallucinogens)
Bookmark: http://www.mapinc.org/spirit.htm (Spiritual or Sacramental)

PEYOTE ON THE BRAIN

Is the Secret to Alcoholism and Other Addictions Locked Up in the
Hallucinogenic Drugs?

Even with several tablespoons of peyote in me, by 3 in the morning I’m
fading. For almost six hours I have been sitting in a tepee in the Navajo
Nation, the largest Indian reservation in the United States, with 20 Navajo
men, women, and children. They belong to the Native American Church, which
has 250,000 members nationwide. Everyone except the four children has eaten
the ground-up tops, or buttons, of peyote, Lophophora williamsii. U.S. law
classifies the squat cactus and its primary active ingredient, mescaline, as
Schedule 1 substances, illegal to sell, possess, or ingest. The law exempts
members of the Native American Church, who revere peyote as a sacred
medicine.

URL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v03.n042.a07.html

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] body clock
Date: January 10, 2003 at 10:36:21 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

thanks, it wasn’t an hour and a half ago.;-(
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Ustanova Iboga
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 10:29 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] body clock

this link does seem to be working.

Marko

At 04:37 10.1.2003, you wrote:
this link doesn’t seem to be working.
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: CCadden
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 5:50 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] body clock

seems like all of those higher level psychedelics will annihilate time for
you. gotta check this article out. pot will do it, as well. ever noticed
that? 5 mins becomes an hour.

chris

—– Original Message —–
From: “Ustanova Iboga” <Iboga@guest.arnes.si>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 3:17 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] body clock

> Hi all,
>
> everyone (who ingested IBOgaine) noticed different perception of time – it
> often seems like days have passed, but in fact only hours (or minutes)
> passed… This article might lead to explanation WHY is this happening.
> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/01/030107073125.htm
> (seems that IBOgaine alters that protein VERY MUCH – if that’s the case
;-))
>
> Marko
>
>
>
>

From: Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] body clock
Date: January 10, 2003 at 10:29:52 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

this link does seem to be working.

Marko

At 04:37 10.1.2003, you wrote:
this link doesn’t seem to be working.
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: CCadden
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 5:50 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] body clock

seems like all of those higher level psychedelics will annihilate time for
you. gotta check this article out. pot will do it, as well. ever noticed
that? 5 mins becomes an hour.

chris

—– Original Message —–
From: “Ustanova Iboga” <Iboga@guest.arnes.si>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 3:17 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] body clock

> Hi all,
>
> everyone (who ingested IBOgaine) noticed different perception of time – it
> often seems like days have passed, but in fact only hours (or minutes)
> passed… This article might lead to explanation WHY is this happening.
> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/01/030107073125.htm
> (seems that IBOgaine alters that protein VERY MUCH – if that’s the case
;-))
>
> Marko
>
>
>
>

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Star Dec. 24 (one day before JAMA)
Date: January 10, 2003 at 9:49:59 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I don’t think anyone is dumb enough to claim 100% success on the
other hand why is he dumb enough to talk to the star. All I know
about kamlet is what he spammed the lists with 6 months ago. That
makes him uninformed and full of himself. That probably answers my
own question of why someone would talk to the star.

What’s important is that we got in both the Star and JAMA in the same
week. Low-brow and high-brow–complete coverage. Media coverage is
what drive philanthropy.

Dana/cnw

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] body clock
Date: January 9, 2003 at 10:37:31 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

this link doesn’t seem to be working.
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: CCadden
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 5:50 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] body clock

seems like all of those higher level psychedelics will annihilate time for
you. gotta check this article out. pot will do it, as well. ever noticed
that? 5 mins becomes an hour.

chris

—– Original Message —–
From: “Ustanova Iboga” <Iboga@guest.arnes.si>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 3:17 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] body clock

> Hi all,
>
> everyone (who ingested IBOgaine) noticed different perception of time – it
> often seems like days have passed, but in fact only hours (or minutes)
> passed… This article might lead to explanation WHY is this happening.
> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/01/030107073125.htm
> (seems that IBOgaine alters that protein VERY MUCH – if that’s the case
;-))
>
> Marko
>
>
>
>

From: “CCadden” <elgrekkko@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] body clock
Date: January 9, 2003 at 5:50:00 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

seems like all of those higher level psychedelics will annihilate time for
you. gotta check this article out. pot will do it, as well. ever noticed
that? 5 mins becomes an hour.

chris

—– Original Message —–
From: “Ustanova Iboga” <Iboga@guest.arnes.si>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 3:17 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] body clock

Hi all,

everyone (who ingested IBOgaine) noticed different perception of time – it
often seems like days have passed, but in fact only hours (or minutes)
passed… This article might lead to explanation WHY is this happening.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/01/030107073125.htm
(seems that IBOgaine alters that protein VERY MUCH – if that’s the case
;-))

Marko

From: brendan22@hushmail.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Star Dec. 24 (one day before JAMA)
Date: January 9, 2003 at 4:41:36 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I don’t think anyone is dumb enough to claim 100% success on the other hand why is he dumb enough to talk to the star. All I know about kamlet is what he spammed the lists with 6 months ago. That makes him uninformed and full of himself. That probably answers my own question of why someone would talk to the star.

On Thu, 09 Jan 2003 12:41:44 -0800 Randy Hencken <randyhencken@hotmail.com> wrote:
I don’t know Dr. Kamlet, but I can’t believe that he would have the
audacity
to make a claim of %100 success.  Come on guys, the Star is a tabloid,
they
write articles about alien babies being found in antartica during
russian
secret missions to dose the world’s salt water supply with a new
and better
LSD.

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Star Dec. 24 (one day before JAMA)
Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 09:17:53 -0800 (PST)

List, sorry I need to apologize.

I said “> Either Kamlet is a low-life treatment pimp
liar or the Star misquoted him – or both.”

And that is not right, it could be that Mr. Kalmet is
so inept as to not to be able to tell when his
patients have relapsed. Funny how guys like that
usually say stuff like “how do you tell an addict is
lying?, because thier lips are moving” and now all of
a sudden they are all telling the gods honest truth
about HIS pet treatment and gosh darn it, he as the
one and only magic method for ibogaine administration
that is in fact a total cure, zero failures – which
you can only get from him of course. Then again he
could be have a case of denial, ya think?

Kalmet, hey KID, why don’t you go get yourself strung
out for a couple decades and come back when you have
grown up, and wipe the snot off your face, people will
take your money. I have more respect for the dope
peddler on the corner than I do for you, and trust him
more… That is of course if what I have read about
you is true and factual.

$14 grand… what is it, ozoneated ibogaine,
magnetized, got some tackion radiation added, blessed
by the Pope, collected by pygmies maybe?

Just curious, guess it is the magic of Mr. Kalmet that
accounts for the other 99% of the cost of treatment –
as the ibogaine will cost roughly 1%+- a few bucks of
that. And no wonder, he has the only one time ibogaine
treatment in the world, good thing people don’t need
re-treats…
Brett

— Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com> wrote:
“Kamlet says. “Some of the
biggest names in
showbix, believe me. I’ve treated 400 people, and
no
one has relapsed.

Either Kamlet is a low-life treatment pimp liar or
the
Star misquoted him – or both.

In other words 400 people and no one has relapsed???
BULL SHIT

Brett

— Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org> wrote:
Richard, please post this to MAPinc. It was
unavailable via web–I
had to retype it from a copy some one gave me.

Dana/cnw

At 8:21 AM -0800 1/7/03, Randy Hencken wrote:

Yesterday someone told me that they saw an
article
in either the
National Enquirer or the Star about Nick Nolte
and
Ibogaine.
Suppossedly it was titled “the treatment of the
stars” and was
published around December 1othish.  Did anybody
here see such an
article?  I tried a brief google search with no
luck.

Thanks,
Randy

December 24, 2002
The Star Confidential
Page 13

RARE ROOT HAS CELEBS BUZZING–ABOUT DETOX

Great news for the Matt Perrys, Diana Rosses, Nick
Noltes and Robert
Downey Jrs. of the world. Now the numerous celebs
who look for relief
from their tough lives in the bottom of a bottle
of
Jack Daniel’s, a
needle or prescription medicine may be able to
kick
their destructive
habits in a snap.

This new treatment will set them back $14,000, and
they’ll have to
fly abroad. But a Miami doctor is telling
Confidential that he’s
designed a new detox program that has secretly
helped “Congressmen
and movie and rock stars” get off drugs and booze
without the
traditional unpleasantness.

“No painful withdrawal symptoms, no falling off
the
wagon,” says Dr.
Jeffrey Kamlet.

“All they have to do is take a small pill. We
monitor them in a
clinic for three days the pill acts on their
bodies,
and that’s
pretty much it.”

There is, however, a tiny caveat, which some of
our
favorite
A-listers might consider a fringe benefit.

The $3,00 pill–made of a rare, ground African
root
named
ibogaine–causes hallucinations. Because of that,
it’s currently
banned in the United States.

But Kamlet’s clinic, Healing Visions, is located
on
the Caribbean
island of St. Kitts, where Ibogaine is allowed.

“When you take it, you feel like you’re watching
12
different TV
screens at the same time, and your life is what’s
on
TV,” Kamlet says.

“But when you come out of it, your physical need
for
the substance
you’re addicted to has vanished.”

Kamlet says that detox candidates are monitored by
ICU-type nurses
during their Ibogaine trip, then they go through
counseling before
being released after two weeks.

“I’m getting calls every week from people who have
spent $200,000 on
detox and need more help,” Kamlet says. “Some of
the
biggest names in
showbix, believe me. I’ve treated 400 people, and
no
one has relapsed.

__________________________________________________
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From: “Randy Hencken” <randyhencken@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Star Dec. 24 (one day before JAMA)
Date: January 9, 2003 at 3:41:44 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I don’t know Dr. Kamlet, but I can’t believe that he would have the audacity to make a claim of %100 success.  Come on guys, the Star is a tabloid, they write articles about alien babies being found in antartica during russian secret missions to dose the world’s salt water supply with a new and better LSD.

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Star Dec. 24 (one day before JAMA)
Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 09:17:53 -0800 (PST)

List, sorry I need to apologize.

I said “> Either Kamlet is a low-life treatment pimp
liar or the Star misquoted him – or both.”

And that is not right, it could be that Mr. Kalmet is
so inept as to not to be able to tell when his
patients have relapsed. Funny how guys like that
usually say stuff like “how do you tell an addict is
lying?, because thier lips are moving” and now all of
a sudden they are all telling the gods honest truth
about HIS pet treatment and gosh darn it, he as the
one and only magic method for ibogaine administration
that is in fact a total cure, zero failures – which
you can only get from him of course. Then again he
could be have a case of denial, ya think?

Kalmet, hey KID, why don’t you go get yourself strung
out for a couple decades and come back when you have
grown up, and wipe the snot off your face, people will
take your money. I have more respect for the dope
peddler on the corner than I do for you, and trust him
more… That is of course if what I have read about
you is true and factual.

$14 grand… what is it, ozoneated ibogaine,
magnetized, got some tackion radiation added, blessed
by the Pope, collected by pygmies maybe?

Just curious, guess it is the magic of Mr. Kalmet that
accounts for the other 99% of the cost of treatment –
as the ibogaine will cost roughly 1%+- a few bucks of
that. And no wonder, he has the only one time ibogaine
treatment in the world, good thing people don’t need
re-treats…
Brett

— Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com> wrote:
> “Kamlet says. “Some of the
> > biggest names in
> > showbix, believe me. I’ve treated 400 people, and
> no
> > one has relapsed.
> ”
>
> Either Kamlet is a low-life treatment pimp liar or
> the
> Star misquoted him – or both.
>
> In other words 400 people and no one has relapsed???
> BULL SHIT
>
> Brett
>
>
> — Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org> wrote:
> > Richard, please post this to MAPinc. It was
> > unavailable via web–I
> > had to retype it from a copy some one gave me.
> >
> > Dana/cnw
> >
> > At 8:21 AM -0800 1/7/03, Randy Hencken wrote:
> > >
> > >Yesterday someone told me that they saw an
> article
> > in either the
> > >National Enquirer or the Star about Nick Nolte
> and
> > Ibogaine.
> > >Suppossedly it was titled “the treatment of the
> > stars” and was
> > >published around December 1othish.  Did anybody
> > here see such an
> > >article?  I tried a brief google search with no
> > luck.
> > >
> > >Thanks,
> > >Randy
> >
> > December 24, 2002
> > The Star Confidential
> > Page 13
> >
> > RARE ROOT HAS CELEBS BUZZING–ABOUT DETOX
> >
> > Great news for the Matt Perrys, Diana Rosses, Nick
> > Noltes and Robert
> > Downey Jrs. of the world. Now the numerous celebs
> > who look for relief
> > from their tough lives in the bottom of a bottle
> of
> > Jack Daniel’s, a
> > needle or prescription medicine may be able to
> kick
> > their destructive
> > habits in a snap.
> >
> > This new treatment will set them back $14,000, and
> > they’ll have to
> > fly abroad. But a Miami doctor is telling
> > Confidential that he’s
> > designed a new detox program that has secretly
> > helped “Congressmen
> > and movie and rock stars” get off drugs and booze
> > without the
> > traditional unpleasantness.
> >
> > “No painful withdrawal symptoms, no falling off
> the
> > wagon,” says Dr.
> > Jeffrey Kamlet.
> >
> > “All they have to do is take a small pill. We
> > monitor them in a
> > clinic for three days the pill acts on their
> bodies,
> > and that’s
> > pretty much it.”
> >
> > There is, however, a tiny caveat, which some of
> our
> > favorite
> > A-listers might consider a fringe benefit.
> >
> > The $3,00 pill–made of a rare, ground African
> root
> > named
> > ibogaine–causes hallucinations. Because of that,
> > it’s currently
> > banned in the United States.
> >
> > But Kamlet’s clinic, Healing Visions, is located
> on
> > the Caribbean
> > island of St. Kitts, where Ibogaine is allowed.
> >
> > “When you take it, you feel like you’re watching
> 12
> > different TV
> > screens at the same time, and your life is what’s
> on
> > TV,” Kamlet says.
> >
> > “But when you come out of it, your physical need
> for
> > the substance
> > you’re addicted to has vanished.”
> >
> > Kamlet says that detox candidates are monitored by
> > ICU-type nurses
> > during their Ibogaine trip, then they go through
> > counseling before
> > being released after two weeks.
> >
> > “I’m getting calls every week from people who have
> > spent $200,000 on
> > detox and need more help,” Kamlet says. “Some of
> the
> > biggest names in
> > showbix, believe me. I’ve treated 400 people, and
> no
> > one has relapsed.
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up
> now.
> http://mailplus.yahoo.com
>
>

__________________________________________________
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From: Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si>
Subject: [ibogaine] body clock
Date: January 9, 2003 at 3:17:13 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi all,

everyone (who ingested IBOgaine) noticed different perception of time – it often seems like days have passed, but in fact only hours (or minutes) passed… This article might lead to explanation WHY is this happening.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/01/030107073125.htm
(seems that IBOgaine alters that protein VERY MUCH – if that’s the case ;-))

Marko

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Star Dec. 24 (one day before JAMA)
Date: January 9, 2003 at 12:17:53 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

List, sorry I need to apologize.

I said “> Either Kamlet is a low-life treatment pimp
liar or the Star misquoted him – or both.”

And that is not right, it could be that Mr. Kalmet is
so inept as to not to be able to tell when his
patients have relapsed. Funny how guys like that
usually say stuff like “how do you tell an addict is
lying?, because thier lips are moving” and now all of
a sudden they are all telling the gods honest truth
about HIS pet treatment and gosh darn it, he as the
one and only magic method for ibogaine administration
that is in fact a total cure, zero failures – which
you can only get from him of course. Then again he
could be have a case of denial, ya think?

Kalmet, hey KID, why don’t you go get yourself strung
out for a couple decades and come back when you have
grown up, and wipe the snot off your face, people will
take your money. I have more respect for the dope
peddler on the corner than I do for you, and trust him
more… That is of course if what I have read about
you is true and factual.

$14 grand… what is it, ozoneated ibogaine,
magnetized, got some tackion radiation added, blessed
by the Pope, collected by pygmies maybe?

Just curious, guess it is the magic of Mr. Kalmet that
accounts for the other 99% of the cost of treatment –
as the ibogaine will cost roughly 1%+- a few bucks of
that. And no wonder, he has the only one time ibogaine
treatment in the world, good thing people don’t need
re-treats…
Brett

— Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com> wrote:
“Kamlet says. “Some of the
biggest names in
showbix, believe me. I’ve treated 400 people, and
no
one has relapsed.

Either Kamlet is a low-life treatment pimp liar or
the
Star misquoted him – or both.

In other words 400 people and no one has relapsed???
BULL SHIT

Brett

— Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org> wrote:
Richard, please post this to MAPinc. It was
unavailable via web–I
had to retype it from a copy some one gave me.

Dana/cnw

At 8:21 AM -0800 1/7/03, Randy Hencken wrote:

Yesterday someone told me that they saw an
article
in either the
National Enquirer or the Star about Nick Nolte
and
Ibogaine.
Suppossedly it was titled “the treatment of the
stars” and was
published around December 1othish.  Did anybody
here see such an
article?  I tried a brief google search with no
luck.

Thanks,
Randy

December 24, 2002
The Star Confidential
Page 13

RARE ROOT HAS CELEBS BUZZING–ABOUT DETOX

Great news for the Matt Perrys, Diana Rosses, Nick
Noltes and Robert
Downey Jrs. of the world. Now the numerous celebs
who look for relief
from their tough lives in the bottom of a bottle
of
Jack Daniel’s, a
needle or prescription medicine may be able to
kick
their destructive
habits in a snap.

This new treatment will set them back $14,000, and
they’ll have to
fly abroad. But a Miami doctor is telling
Confidential that he’s
designed a new detox program that has secretly
helped “Congressmen
and movie and rock stars” get off drugs and booze
without the
traditional unpleasantness.

“No painful withdrawal symptoms, no falling off
the
wagon,” says Dr.
Jeffrey Kamlet.

“All they have to do is take a small pill. We
monitor them in a
clinic for three days the pill acts on their
bodies,
and that’s
pretty much it.”

There is, however, a tiny caveat, which some of
our
favorite
A-listers might consider a fringe benefit.

The $3,00 pill–made of a rare, ground African
root
named
ibogaine–causes hallucinations. Because of that,
it’s currently
banned in the United States.

But Kamlet’s clinic, Healing Visions, is located
on
the Caribbean
island of St. Kitts, where Ibogaine is allowed.

“When you take it, you feel like you’re watching
12
different TV
screens at the same time, and your life is what’s
on
TV,” Kamlet says.

“But when you come out of it, your physical need
for
the substance
you’re addicted to has vanished.”

Kamlet says that detox candidates are monitored by
ICU-type nurses
during their Ibogaine trip, then they go through
counseling before
being released after two weeks.

“I’m getting calls every week from people who have
spent $200,000 on
detox and need more help,” Kamlet says. “Some of
the
biggest names in
showbix, believe me. I’ve treated 400 people, and
no
one has relapsed.

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up
now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Request to test Herbal Samples from Ethnobotany group
Date: January 9, 2003 at 11:49:06 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Here is the email address

joseph_gujjarlamudi@hotmail.com  /
joseph_gujjarlamudi@yahoo.com

Dr.G.V.R.Joseph M.A.,M.Sc.,Ph.D.,N.D..
Research Officer
Central Research Institute (Ay)
(CCRAS, Min. of Health and F.W.Government of
India)
Cheruthuruthy, Trichur (Dist)
Kerala ­ 679531, INDIA.

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Star Dec. 24 (one day before JAMA)
Date: January 9, 2003 at 9:14:58 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“Kamlet says. “Some of the
biggest names in
showbix, believe me. I’ve treated 400 people, and no
one has relapsed.

Either Kamlet is a low-life treatment pimp liar or the
Star misquoted him – or both.

In other words 400 people and no one has relapsed???
BULL SHIT

Brett

— Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org> wrote:
Richard, please post this to MAPinc. It was
unavailable via web–I
had to retype it from a copy some one gave me.

Dana/cnw

At 8:21 AM -0800 1/7/03, Randy Hencken wrote:

Yesterday someone told me that they saw an article
in either the
National Enquirer or the Star about Nick Nolte and
Ibogaine.
Suppossedly it was titled “the treatment of the
stars” and was
published around December 1othish.  Did anybody
here see such an
article?  I tried a brief google search with no
luck.

Thanks,
Randy

December 24, 2002
The Star Confidential
Page 13

RARE ROOT HAS CELEBS BUZZING–ABOUT DETOX

Great news for the Matt Perrys, Diana Rosses, Nick
Noltes and Robert
Downey Jrs. of the world. Now the numerous celebs
who look for relief
from their tough lives in the bottom of a bottle of
Jack Daniel’s, a
needle or prescription medicine may be able to kick
their destructive
habits in a snap.

This new treatment will set them back $14,000, and
they’ll have to
fly abroad. But a Miami doctor is telling
Confidential that he’s
designed a new detox program that has secretly
helped “Congressmen
and movie and rock stars” get off drugs and booze
without the
traditional unpleasantness.

“No painful withdrawal symptoms, no falling off the
wagon,” says Dr.
Jeffrey Kamlet.

“All they have to do is take a small pill. We
monitor them in a
clinic for three days the pill acts on their bodies,
and that’s
pretty much it.”

There is, however, a tiny caveat, which some of our
favorite
A-listers might consider a fringe benefit.

The $3,00 pill–made of a rare, ground African root
named
ibogaine–causes hallucinations. Because of that,
it’s currently
banned in the United States.

But Kamlet’s clinic, Healing Visions, is located on
the Caribbean
island of St. Kitts, where Ibogaine is allowed.

“When you take it, you feel like you’re watching 12
different TV
screens at the same time, and your life is what’s on
TV,” Kamlet says.

“But when you come out of it, your physical need for
the substance
you’re addicted to has vanished.”

Kamlet says that detox candidates are monitored by
ICU-type nurses
during their Ibogaine trip, then they go through
counseling before
being released after two weeks.

“I’m getting calls every week from people who have
spent $200,000 on
detox and need more help,” Kamlet says. “Some of the
biggest names in
showbix, believe me. I’ve treated 400 people, and no
one has relapsed.

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

From: MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca>
Subject: [ibogaine] National Enquirer, “No one has relapsed”
Date: January 9, 2003 at 2:02:36 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“No one (out of 400) has relapsed.”

Oh, to have such results. I guess it cured all their problems, financial &
psychological, as well.

signed,
working in the real world,
Marc Emery
Iboga Therapy House

At 8:21 AM -0800 1/7/03, Randy Hencken wrote:

Yesterday someone told me that they saw an article in either the
National Enquirer or the Star about Nick Nolte and Ibogaine.
Suppossedly it was titled “the treatment of the stars” and was
published around December 1othish.  Did anybody here see such an
article?  I tried a brief google search with no luck.

Thanks,
Randy

December 24, 2002
The Star Confidential
Page 13

RARE ROOT HAS CELEBS BUZZING–ABOUT DETOX

Great news for the Matt Perrys, Diana Rosses, Nick Noltes and Robert
Downey Jrs. of the world. Now the numerous celebs who look for relief
from their tough lives in the bottom of a bottle of Jack Daniel’s, a
needle or prescription medicine may be able to kick their destructive
habits in a snap.

This new treatment will set them back $14,000, and they’ll have to
fly abroad. But a Miami doctor is telling Confidential that he’s
designed a new detox program that has secretly helped “Congressmen
and movie and rock stars” get off drugs and booze without the
traditional unpleasantness.

“No painful withdrawal symptoms, no falling off the wagon,” says Dr.
Jeffrey Kamlet.

“All they have to do is take a small pill. We monitor them in a
clinic for three days the pill acts on their bodies, and that’s
pretty much it.”

There is, however, a tiny caveat, which some of our favorite
A-listers might consider a fringe benefit.

The $3,00 pill–made of a rare, ground African root named
ibogaine–causes hallucinations. Because of that, it’s currently
banned in the United States.

But Kamlet’s clinic, Healing Visions, is located on the Caribbean
island of St. Kitts, where Ibogaine is allowed.

“When you take it, you feel like you’re watching 12 different TV
screens at the same time, and your life is what’s on TV,” Kamlet says.

“But when you come out of it, your physical need for the substance
you’re addicted to has vanished.”

Kamlet says that detox candidates are monitored by ICU-type nurses
during their Ibogaine trip, then they go through counseling before
being released after two weeks.

“I’m getting calls every week from people who have spent $200,000 on
detox and need more help,” Kamlet says. “Some of the biggest names in
showbix, believe me. I’ve treated 400 people, and no one has relapsed.

From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Request to test Herbal Samples from Ethnobotany group
Date: January 8, 2003 at 10:04:10 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Wed, 8 Jan 2003 Tbgelfling@aol.com wrote:

test

you get an A for effort, but i’d like to see better penmanship next time.

==========================================================================
|                                                                        |
| League of Surrealist Discord        –               www.lsdrecords.net |
|                                                                        |
|                  ‘Tis an ill wind that blows no minds…               |
————————————————————————–

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] The Star Dec. 24 (one day before JAMA)
Date: January 8, 2003 at 8:25:00 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: Richard Lake <rlake@mapinc.org>, dansmith@clark.net, lensman@stardrive.org, hward@wineshopper.com, DDanforbes@aol.com, daniel@breakingopenthehead.com, Mark@k-dunn.freeserve.co.uk, IMDJam@cs.com, gbekkum@mediaone.net, Gary@osborn-day.freeserve.co.uk, gschwart@u.arizona.edu, e-merrill2@ti.com, “Bob Ezergailis” <morpheal@bserv.com>, “cynthia ford” <maruta@wco.com>, “G. G. Ford” <swimp@shaw.ca>, <brumac@compuserve.com>, <yokatta@oxy.edu>, <kklingon@cwcom.net>, <cyrano@aqua.ocn.ne.jp>, “Adrian” <afme@ihug.co.nz>, dewatson@sunflower.com, CloudRider@aol.com, JagdishM@aol.com, phylegyas@hotmail.com, schwann@webtrance.co.za, ibogalab@hotmail.com, zentarot@hotmail.com, Paul DeRienzo <pdr@echonyc.com>, Stews@radiks.net, foozleman@worldnet.att.net, bmasel@tds.net, heff01@email.msn.com, kingfelix@mediaone.net, luxefair@bellsouth.net, cardboard_dada@yahoo.com, prophets@maui.net, m.pilkington@virgin.net, PCLARK@JJHILL.ORG, delaneyw@shasta.com, Edward Jahn <ejahn@barnard.edu>, derlock@mailexcite.com, “Andre Welling” <andre.welling@db.com>, Mitchel Cohen <mitchelcohen@mindspring.com>, “MUTANEX Command HAWAI’I” <mutanex@aloha.net>, miriamwhite420@hotmail.com, ibogaine@mindvox.com, Nick Sandberg <nick.sandberg@virgin.net>, George Clayton Johnson <hempjack@earthlink.net>, axiom@greatmystery.org, dancegroove@nyc.rr.com, “warcry@indymedia.org” <warcrycinema@yahoo.com>, “Jay Statzer” <jstatzer@qtm.net>, philipkdick@yahoogroups.com, “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Richard, please post this to MAPinc. It was unavailable via web–I
had to retype it from a copy some one gave me.

Dana/cnw

At 8:21 AM -0800 1/7/03, Randy Hencken wrote:

Yesterday someone told me that they saw an article in either the
National Enquirer or the Star about Nick Nolte and Ibogaine.
Suppossedly it was titled “the treatment of the stars” and was
published around December 1othish.  Did anybody here see such an
article?  I tried a brief google search with no luck.

Thanks,
Randy

December 24, 2002
The Star Confidential
Page 13

RARE ROOT HAS CELEBS BUZZING–ABOUT DETOX

Great news for the Matt Perrys, Diana Rosses, Nick Noltes and Robert
Downey Jrs. of the world. Now the numerous celebs who look for relief
from their tough lives in the bottom of a bottle of Jack Daniel’s, a
needle or prescription medicine may be able to kick their destructive
habits in a snap.

This new treatment will set them back $14,000, and they’ll have to
fly abroad. But a Miami doctor is telling Confidential that he’s
designed a new detox program that has secretly helped “Congressmen
and movie and rock stars” get off drugs and booze without the
traditional unpleasantness.

“No painful withdrawal symptoms, no falling off the wagon,” says Dr.
Jeffrey Kamlet.

“All they have to do is take a small pill. We monitor them in a
clinic for three days the pill acts on their bodies, and that’s
pretty much it.”

There is, however, a tiny caveat, which some of our favorite
A-listers might consider a fringe benefit.

The $3,00 pill–made of a rare, ground African root named
ibogaine–causes hallucinations. Because of that, it’s currently
banned in the United States.

But Kamlet’s clinic, Healing Visions, is located on the Caribbean
island of St. Kitts, where Ibogaine is allowed.

“When you take it, you feel like you’re watching 12 different TV
screens at the same time, and your life is what’s on TV,” Kamlet says.

“But when you come out of it, your physical need for the substance
you’re addicted to has vanished.”

Kamlet says that detox candidates are monitored by ICU-type nurses
during their Ibogaine trip, then they go through counseling before
being released after two weeks.

“I’m getting calls every week from people who have spent $200,000 on
detox and need more help,” Kamlet says. “Some of the biggest names in
showbix, believe me. I’ve treated 400 people, and no one has relapsed.

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Sacrament Wars! (Episode 39)
Date: January 8, 2003 at 7:52:26 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>Share the love!<

LOL, right on!
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: MARC
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Sacrament Wars! (Episode 39)

That ‘Jesus as Stoner’ article has shown up in every paper in the world, I think. Its in the Vancouver Sun, Ottawa Citizen today, its been in the Times Of India, the Indian Express, a South African Daily, a Paris daily, the Guardian (UK), The Washington Post, a horde of others.  Chris Bennett is doing interview after interview today. And here’s me thinking everyone knew Jesus wore hemp as well as HE was annointed with it. Its ironic that High Times gets its greatest PR in the mainstream press from an article by a person in my organization. Share the love!

Marc Emery

In a message dated 1/7/03 3:31:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, dana@cures-not-wars.org writes:

The anointing oil used by Jesus and his disciples contained an
ingredient called kaneh-bosem which has since been identified as
cannabis extract, according to an article by Chris Bennett in the
drugs magazine, High Times, entitled Was Jesus a Stoner? The incense
used by Jesus in ceremonies also contained a cannabis extract,
suggests Mr Bennett, who quotes scholars to back his claims.

“There can be little doubt about a role for cannabis in Judaic
religion,” Carl Ruck, professor of classical mythology at Boston
University said.

Well, duh!
Classical Judaic commentators on the verse in exodus that describes the holy Qaneh Bosem, amongst the other three “mashiach” (annointment) oils as being “head spices” (BiSaMiM ROSh), define the obscure term, “Head Spices”,  used to describe nothing else in the Tanach except for Cinnamon, Quassia, and Myrrh, as meaning “important” (ChaShuViM) according to Rashi, elucidated by Rav Moshe Ibn Nachman as meaning “valued highly in every nation.”

The word “QaNeH BoSeM” is very signifigant of itself.  it’s two words, QaNeH, related to the Greek “Cane,”  meaning basically the same thing.  Reed.  Windpipe. The space from the elbow to the wrist. A  bird’s nest in Hebrew is a KaiN.  Adam’s son Cain (QaYiN) who represents the universe of Chaos, and the nationalistic hold-on-to-what-I-have-and-where-I-am land farmer instinct as opposed to the flowing flock following sheep herder type. An Accuisition is called a QiNYaN.  To purchase is LiQNoT.

A cane is basically anything that connects two thing, that brings one closer to the other, or rather, into the other.  It’s so deep, gevalt.  Aseh Lecha Rav, Qineh lecha Chaver.  Teachers are made, but friends are accuired.

God is praised in psalms and much of the Hebrew prayer Liturgy (notably in the Shmonah Esrai and in the Sanctification of the Moon rituals.) as Qoneh Hakol, Accuires the everything. The implication is that there has been a separation, that, when God creates me, he lets go of me a little bit.  When you create something, you’re giving it space from yourself to go out and be in the world.

How do you know you’ve created something beautiful? You hear it, you see it, you taste, and smile to yourself: That’s mine.  that’s my song, that’s my painting. It’s its own thing, of course, with its own life and it’s own existence. And I know that it’s mine forever.

One of the secret powers of Marijuana, it brings back lost memories, lost feelings and sensations. From childhood from the deepest places, it brings them back.  Paralyzed people, physically and spiritually, it gives them the sensations they thought they’d lost forever. Things they’d forgotten they’d ever had.

In the Bible, God doesn’t create man and woman straight out.  first he creates the together, according to ancient Jewish tradition, facing away from each other.  Then he puts them into a deep sleep, and separates them.  Only then to they see each other, do they embrace.  It’s so deep.

When you’re somewhere nice forever, born on the farm, in the city whatever, you don’t appreciate it so much.  When you leave, you grow, you learn something new. and when you come back!  Ah! it’s so beautiful it’s so new and old at the same time.
And the love, the appreciation is stronger.  The world is perfect, order reigns, and everything is working as it should be!  Gets boring, we stop growing.   things get intense for awhile, something new is introduced, and it gets worked out.  And we come back home, and I’m in love like i’ve never been before.

Forgetting is death a little bit.  There’s a blessing said by Jews who don’t each each other for more than a year or so. Baruch Michaye Ha Maythim, Thank you Lord, who ressurects the dead.   I forgot you, i didn’t think about you for a long time, so it’s like you died to me.  I see you again, I remember you, it’s like you came back from the dead.

When you marry someone, it’s called an accuisition. In Babylon, it’s about control, but really, it’s so much deeper.  Everyone knows, when you meet your soulmate, it’s kinda meeting someone new, but really, it’s someone you recognize from before creation.  “Don’t i know you from somewhere?”  You got separated, somewhen.  And know, you’re mine again. Welcome home, baby!

And when a relationship is really deep, it mamish brings you both back from the dead.

We should be blessed, the herb we smoke should only make us forget traumas, and remember the secret good that’s so much deeper.   May the evil prohibition of Hashem’s righteous creations be ended, may all the captives be freed to come home, and may the divine presence rest on us all. may all our words be healing and all our love go deep.

—-Yoseph

There’s alot to be said about the Bosem half of the word too, but for another time.

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: What I meant
Date: January 8, 2003 at 7:08:52 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hoyle isn’t and never was a writer for HT. Apparently he was the opposing view in a positive article about ibogaine, but even that I’m not entirely sure about. All I know is that he didn’t write an article for HT, and that HT hasn’t ever published an article that was negative about ibogaine. Don’t know when or what issue this citation is coming from, nor have I actually seen the Straight article that cites Hoyle in HT yet either.
Peace,
Preston

Well, if it’s not current–and I don’t think they’ve run anything since they turned down that 12,000 word piece from Portland in ’98–then it doesn’t mean much. (I realize 12,000 words is way too long, which gave Bloom an excellent reason to scotch it. On the other hand…..nothing since that time.)

The name Peter Hoyle rings a bell though. Did they run something on hip treatment options about 3 years ago?

Dana/cnw

From: MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Sacrament Wars! (Episode 39)
Date: January 8, 2003 at 6:36:37 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

That ‘Jesus as Stoner’ article has shown up in every paper in the world, I think. Its in the Vancouver Sun, Ottawa Citizen today, its been in the Times Of India, the Indian Express, a South African Daily, a Paris daily, the Guardian (UK), The Washington Post, a horde of others.  Chris Bennett is doing interview after interview today. And here’s me thinking everyone knew Jesus wore hemp as well as HE was annointed with it. Its ironic that High Times gets its greatest PR in the mainstream press from an article by a person in my organization. Share the love!

Marc Emery

In a message dated 1/7/03 3:31:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, dana@cures-not-wars.org writes:

The anointing oil used by Jesus and his disciples contained an
ingredient called kaneh-bosem which has since been identified as
cannabis extract, according to an article by Chris Bennett in the
drugs magazine, High Times, entitled Was Jesus a Stoner? The incense
used by Jesus in ceremonies also contained a cannabis extract,
suggests Mr Bennett, who quotes scholars to back his claims.

“There can be little doubt about a role for cannabis in Judaic
religion,” Carl Ruck, professor of classical mythology at Boston
University said.

Well, duh!
Classical Judaic commentators on the verse in exodus that describes the holy Qaneh Bosem, amongst the other three “mashiach” (annointment) oils as being “head spices” (BiSaMiM ROSh), define the obscure term, “Head Spices”,  used to describe nothing else in the Tanach except for Cinnamon, Quassia, and Myrrh, as meaning “important” (ChaShuViM) according to Rashi, elucidated by Rav Moshe Ibn Nachman as meaning “valued highly in every nation.”

The word “QaNeH BoSeM” is very signifigant of itself.  it’s two words, QaNeH, related to the Greek “Cane,”  meaning basically the same thing.  Reed.  Windpipe. The space from the elbow to the wrist. A  bird’s nest in Hebrew is a KaiN.  Adam’s son Cain (QaYiN) who represents the universe of Chaos, and the nationalistic hold-on-to-what-I-have-and-where-I-am land farmer instinct as opposed to the flowing flock following sheep herder type. An Accuisition is called a QiNYaN.  To purchase is LiQNoT.

A cane is basically anything that connects two thing, that brings one closer to the other, or rather, into the other.  It’s so deep, gevalt.  Aseh Lecha Rav, Qineh lecha Chaver.  Teachers are made, but friends are accuired.

God is praised in psalms and much of the Hebrew prayer Liturgy (notably in the Shmonah Esrai and in the Sanctification of the Moon rituals.) as Qoneh Hakol, Accuires the everything. The implication is that there has been a separation, that, when God creates me, he lets go of me a little bit.  When you create something, you’re giving it space from yourself to go out and be in the world.

How do you know you’ve created something beautiful? You hear it, you see it, you taste, and smile to yourself: That’s mine.  that’s my song, that’s my painting. It’s its own thing, of course, with its own life and it’s own existence. And I know that it’s mine forever.

One of the secret powers of Marijuana, it brings back lost memories, lost feelings and sensations. From childhood from the deepest places, it brings them back.  Paralyzed people, physically and spiritually, it gives them the sensations they thought they’d lost forever. Things they’d forgotten they’d ever had.

In the Bible, God doesn’t create man and woman straight out.  first he creates the together, according to ancient Jewish tradition, facing away from each other.  Then he puts them into a deep sleep, and separates them.  Only then to they see each other, do they embrace.  It’s so deep.

When you’re somewhere nice forever, born on the farm, in the city whatever, you don’t appreciate it so much.  When you leave, you grow, you learn something new. and when you come back!  Ah! it’s so beautiful it’s so new and old at the same time.
And the love, the appreciation is stronger.  The world is perfect, order reigns, and everything is working as it should be!  Gets boring, we stop growing.   things get intense for awhile, something new is introduced, and it gets worked out.  And we come back home, and I’m in love like i’ve never been before.

Forgetting is death a little bit.  There’s a blessing said by Jews who don’t each each other for more than a year or so. Baruch Michaye Ha Maythim, Thank you Lord, who ressurects the dead.   I forgot you, i didn’t think about you for a long time, so it’s like you died to me.  I see you again, I remember you, it’s like you came back from the dead.

When you marry someone, it’s called an accuisition. In Babylon, it’s about control, but really, it’s so much deeper.  Everyone knows, when you meet your soulmate, it’s kinda meeting someone new, but really, it’s someone you recognize from before creation.  “Don’t i know you from somewhere?”  You got separated, somewhen.  And know, you’re mine again. Welcome home, baby!

And when a relationship is really deep, it mamish brings you both back from the dead.

We should be blessed, the herb we smoke should only make us forget traumas, and remember the secret good that’s so much deeper.   May the evil prohibition of Hashem’s righteous creations be ended, may all the captives be freed to come home, and may the divine presence rest on us all. may all our words be healing and all our love go deep.

—-Yoseph

There’s alot to be said about the Bosem half of the word too, but for another time.

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine question seattle
Date: January 8, 2003 at 6:32:01 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

He’s the only critic of Ibogaine the Georgia Straight could find,
apparently. And the reason for that was he was already on record in
High Times. But I said I didn’t know what issue. The Georgia
Straight merely cited it, they didn’t a complete citation.
I thought maybe you could find out more easily than the rest of us.<

Oooops, didn’t see the “don’t know what issue” comment Dana, so sorry.
I’ll ask around and see what this is all about. I haven’t heard
anything about it until now.
Georgia STRAIGHT? The “Treatment” people? Why in the heck are they
quoting HT if so?
Weird.
Peace,
Preston

As a matter of fact, DRUGWATCH International studies H.T. the way the
CIA used to cross-correlate stuff from Pravda and Izvestia.

Obsessively. So if you want to stay off the screen of the extreme
drug warriors…just stay out of High Times.

Dana/cnw

From: “CCadden” <elgrekkko@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Sacrament Wars! (Episode 39)
Date: January 8, 2003 at 6:18:01 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

awesome commentary. gracias.
chris
Well, duh!
Classical Judaic commentators on the verse in exodus that describes the holy Qaneh Bosem, amongst the other three “mashiach” (annointment) oils as being “head spices” (BiSaMiM ROSh), define the obscure term, “Head Spices”,  used to describe nothing else in the Tanach except for Cinnamon, Quassia, and Myrrh, as meaning “important” (ChaShuViM) according to Rashi, elucidated by Rav Moshe Ibn Nachman as meaning “valued highly in every nation.”

The word “QaNeH BoSeM” is very signifigant of itself.  it’s two words, QaNeH, related to the Greek “Cane,”  meaning basically the same thing.  Reed.  Windpipe. The space from the elbow to the wrist. A  bird’s nest in Hebrew is a KaiN.  Adam’s son Cain (QaYiN) who represents the universe of Chaos, and the nationalistic hold-on-to-what-I-have-and-where-I-am land farmer instinct as opposed to the flowing flock following sheep herder type. An Accuisition is called a QiNYaN.  To purchase is LiQNoT.

A cane is basically anything that connects two thing, that brings one closer to the other, or rather, into the other.  It’s so deep, gevalt.  Aseh Lecha Rav, Qineh lecha Chaver.  Teachers are made, but friends are accuired.

God is praised in psalms and much of the Hebrew prayer Liturgy (notably in the Shmonah Esrai and in the Sanctification of the Moon rituals.) as Qoneh Hakol, Accuires the everything. The implication is that there has been a separation, that, when God creates me, he lets go of me a little bit.  When you create something, you’re giving it space from yourself to go out and be in the world.

How do you know you’ve created something beautiful? You hear it, you see it, you taste, and smile to yourself: That’s mine.  that’s my song, that’s my painting. It’s its own thing, of course, with its own life and it’s own existence. And I know that it’s mine forever.

One of the secret powers of Marijuana, it brings back lost memories, lost feelings and sensations. From childhood from the deepest places, it brings them back.  Paralyzed people, physically and spiritually, it gives them the sensations they thought they’d lost forever. Things they’d forgotten they’d ever had.

In the Bible, God doesn’t create man and woman straight out.  first he creates the together, according to ancient Jewish tradition, facing away from each other.  Then he puts them into a deep sleep, and separates them.  Only then to they see each other, do they embrace.  It’s so deep.

When you’re somewhere nice forever, born on the farm, in the city whatever, you don’t appreciate it so much.  When you leave, you grow, you learn something new. and when you come back!  Ah! it’s so beautiful it’s so new and old at the same time.
And the love, the appreciation is stronger.  The world is perfect, order reigns, and everything is working as it should be!  Gets boring, we stop growing.   things get intense for awhile, something new is introduced, and it gets worked out.  And we come back home, and I’m in love like i’ve never been before.

Forgetting is death a little bit.  There’s a blessing said by Jews who don’t each each other for more than a year or so. Baruch Michaye Ha Maythim, Thank you Lord, who ressurects the dead.   I forgot you, i didn’t think about you for a long time, so it’s like you died to me.  I see you again, I remember you, it’s like you came back from the dead.

When you marry someone, it’s called an accuisition. In Babylon, it’s about control, but really, it’s so much deeper.  Everyone knows, when you meet your soulmate, it’s kinda meeting someone new, but really, it’s someone you recognize from before creation.  “Don’t i know you from somewhere?”  You got separated, somewhen.  And know, you’re mine again. Welcome home, baby!

And when a relationship is really deep, it mamish brings you both back from the dead.

We should be blessed, the herb we smoke should only make us forget traumas, and remember the secret good that’s so much deeper.   May the evil prohibition of Hashem’s righteous creations be ended, may all the captives be freed to come home, and may the divine presence rest on us all. may all our words be healing and all our love go deep.

—-Yoseph

There’s alot to be said about the Bosem half of the word too, but for another time.

From: NeedelR@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: Sacrament Wars! (Episode 39)
Date: January 8, 2003 at 9:49:53 AM EST
To: dana@cures-not-wars.org, ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: dansmith@clark.net, lensman@stardrive.org, hward@wineshopper.com, DDanforbes@aol.com, daniel@breakingopenthehead.com, Mark@k-dunn.freeserve.co.uk, IMDJam@cs.com, gbekkum@mediaone.net, Gary@osborn-day.freeserve.co.uk, gschwart@u.arizona.edu, e-merrill2@ti.com, morpheal@bserv.com, maruta@wco.com, swimp@shaw.ca, brumac@compuserve.com, yokatta@oxy.edu, kklingon@cwcom.net, cyrano@aqua.ocn.ne.jp, afme@ihug.co.nz, dewatson@sunflower.com, CloudRider@aol.com, JagdishM@aol.com, phylegyas@hotmail.com, schwann@webtrance.co.za, ibogalab@hotmail.com, zentarot@hotmail.com, pdr@echonyc.com, Stews@radiks.net, foozleman@worldnet.att.net, bmasel@tds.net, heff01@email.msn.com, kingfelix@mediaone.net, luxefair@bellsouth.net, cardboard_dada@yahoo.com, prophets@maui.net, m.pilkington@virgin.net, PCLARK@JJHILL.ORG, delaneyw@shasta.com, ejahn@barnard.edu, derlock@mailexcite.com, andre.welling@db.com, mitchelcohen@mindspring.com, mutanex@aloha.net, miriamwhite420@hotmail.com, nick.sandberg@virgin.net, hempjack@earthlink.net, axiom@greatmystery.org, dancegroove@nyc.rr.com, warcrycinema@yahoo.com, jstatzer@qtm.net, philipkdick@yahoogroups.com, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 1/7/03 3:31:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, dana@cures-not-wars.org writes:

The anointing oil used by Jesus and his disciples contained an
ingredient called kaneh-bosem which has since been identified as
cannabis extract, according to an article by Chris Bennett in the
drugs magazine, High Times, entitled Was Jesus a Stoner? The incense
used by Jesus in ceremonies also contained a cannabis extract,
suggests Mr Bennett, who quotes scholars to back his claims.

“There can be little doubt about a role for cannabis in Judaic
religion,” Carl Ruck, professor of classical mythology at Boston
University said.

Well, duh!
Classical Judaic commentators on the verse in exodus that describes the holy Qaneh Bosem, amongst the other three “mashiach” (annointment) oils as being “head spices” (BiSaMiM ROSh), define the obscure term, “Head Spices”,  used to describe nothing else in the Tanach except for Cinnamon, Quassia, and Myrrh, as meaning “important” (ChaShuViM) according to Rashi, elucidated by Rav Moshe Ibn Nachman as meaning “valued highly in every nation.”

The word “QaNeH BoSeM” is very signifigant of itself.  it’s two words, QaNeH, related to the Greek “Cane,”  meaning basically the same thing.  Reed.  Windpipe. The space from the elbow to the wrist. A  bird’s nest in Hebrew is a KaiN.  Adam’s son Cain (QaYiN) who represents the universe of Chaos, and the nationalistic hold-on-to-what-I-have-and-where-I-am land farmer instinct as opposed to the flowing flock following sheep herder type. An Accuisition is called a QiNYaN.  To purchase is LiQNoT.

A cane is basically anything that connects two thing, that brings one closer to the other, or rather, into the other.  It’s so deep, gevalt.  Aseh Lecha Rav, Qineh lecha Chaver.  Teachers are made, but friends are accuired.

God is praised in psalms and much of the Hebrew prayer Liturgy (notably in the Shmonah Esrai and in the Sanctification of the Moon rituals.) as Qoneh Hakol, Accuires the everything. The implication is that there has been a separation, that, when God creates me, he lets go of me a little bit.  When you create something, you’re giving it space from yourself to go out and be in the world.

How do you know you’ve created something beautiful? You hear it, you see it, you taste, and smile to yourself: That’s mine.  that’s my song, that’s my painting. It’s its own thing, of course, with its own life and it’s own existence. And I know that it’s mine forever.

One of the secret powers of Marijuana, it brings back lost memories, lost feelings and sensations. From childhood from the deepest places, it brings them back.  Paralyzed people, physically and spiritually, it gives them the sensations they thought they’d lost forever. Things they’d forgotten they’d ever had.

In the Bible, God doesn’t create man and woman straight out.  first he creates the together, according to ancient Jewish tradition, facing away from each other.  Then he puts them into a deep sleep, and separates them.  Only then to they see each other, do they embrace.  It’s so deep.

When you’re somewhere nice forever, born on the farm, in the city whatever, you don’t appreciate it so much.  When you leave, you grow, you learn something new. and when you come back!  Ah! it’s so beautiful it’s so new and old at the same time.
And the love, the appreciation is stronger.  The world is perfect, order reigns, and everything is working as it should be!  Gets boring, we stop growing.   things get intense for awhile, something new is introduced, and it gets worked out.  And we come back home, and I’m in love like i’ve never been before.

Forgetting is death a little bit.  There’s a blessing said by Jews who don’t each each other for more than a year or so. Baruch Michaye Ha Maythim, Thank you Lord, who ressurects the dead.   I forgot you, i didn’t think about you for a long time, so it’s like you died to me.  I see you again, I remember you, it’s like you came back from the dead.

When you marry someone, it’s called an accuisition. In Babylon, it’s about control, but really, it’s so much deeper.  Everyone knows, when you meet your soulmate, it’s kinda meeting someone new, but really, it’s someone you recognize from before creation.  “Don’t i know you from somewhere?”  You got separated, somewhen.  And know, you’re mine again. Welcome home, baby!

And when a relationship is really deep, it mamish brings you both back from the dead.

We should be blessed, the herb we smoke should only make us forget traumas, and remember the secret good that’s so much deeper.   May the evil prohibition of Hashem’s righteous creations be ended, may all the captives be freed to come home, and may the divine presence rest on us all. may all our words be healing and all our love go deep.

—-Yoseph

There’s alot to be said about the Bosem half of the word too, but for another time.

From: Andria Efthimiou-Mordaunt <AndriaEM@drugscope.org.uk>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] ibogaine question seattle
Date: January 8, 2003 at 2:00:10 PM EST
To: “‘ibogaine@mindvox.com'” <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

PK

Please unsubscribe me from this list, or tell me how to and I will
Sooo busy can’t stay – Sad

andria x

—–Original Message—–
From: Patrick K. Kroupa [mailto:digital@phantom.com]
Sent: 06 January 2003 03:54
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine question seattle

On [Fri, Jan 03, 2003 at 08:20:21PM -0800], [Joshua Tinnin] wrote:

| As I said, I am going to be following up with other therapy. But would
| prefer to leave it at that for the moment. I am not a brilliant
communicator
| as Patrick is,

Sure you are.  You communicate very well.  If you’re unsure how to express
it, then just write down anchors to pieces of the experience, so you can
connect yourself back to it.  While extremely altered that works for me,
and sort of de-loops entire pieces of time, which would otherwise sink
back into being unformed.

| and haven’t yet figured it all out for myself, either. But
| this is something that I feel has to be shared at some point, because, if
it
| has the possibility of helping someone, then it will have been worth it. I
| just don’t want people dosing themselves thinking that’s what I told them
to
| do, and then getting pissed because it didn’t work for them, or because,
| forbid, they got screwed up by the experience. Just gotta tread carefully
| and take this a bit at a time, and later maybe can speak to it when I
| understand it better, when it would be less likely to be misunderstood …

Do you get that thing with the entire cheerleading team of a high school,
and an IV in each arm, one with cocaine, the other with a morphine/heroin
mixture (for that wunnerful pins and needles morphine rush, and heroin
downhead)…?  That’s part of the whole entire Valhalla I am Coming cycle;
Joseph Campbell, Ken Wilber, and Alan Watts all mention it; not using
those exact words, but it’s what they meant to say.

Garab Dorje also touches upon it in the supressed masterpiece, “Godhead is
one killer fucking rush mahn!  Woo Hoo!”

Patrick

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From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] need some insight
Date: January 8, 2003 at 1:27:28 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The problem with this kind of crap, is that they can usually get away
with it.  The best way to deal with it, is calmly and nicely, by meeting
with the program director, then that persons boss, etc., and keep making
a stink. Read up on your programs own policies.  Licensure usually
requires them to be in compliance with their own policies and
procedures.   They can typically get away with it by saying they don’t
deny anyone services for opiate addiction, but methadone is a prescribed
medication, and the rules don’t apply, blah, blah, blah.  Your best bet
is to learn their policies, contact your human rights representative,
and make lots of noise and threats…but back them up with action.  Get
a lawyer to send a threatening letter, etc.  Email me off-list and I can
send you an E-mail contact who has some pull, as well as fire in his
belly, who might be able to connect you to a pro-bono methadone
patient/lawyer who might be able to help you out.

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

chimp@zwallet.com 01/08/03 12:03PM >>>
does anyone know where i can get in touch with someone about finding
out about my rights as a methadone patient the clinic i am on is kicking
me off because i have fallen behind in my payments $10 a day please help
if some one knows another sight i can go to or anything thanx b

______________________________________________________
Get Paid… With Your Free Email at
http://www.zwallet.com/index.html?user=chimp

From: Bernard C Phifer <chimp@zwallet.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] need some insight
Date: January 8, 2003 at 12:03:38 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: chimp@zwallet.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

does anyone know where i can get in touch with someone about finding out about my rights as a methadone patient the clinic i am on is kicking me off because i have fallen behind in my payments $10 a day please help if some one knows another sight i can go to or anything thanx b

______________________________________________________
Get Paid… With Your Free Email at
http://www.zwallet.com/index.html?user=chimp

From: Tbgelfling@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Request to test Herbal Samples from Ethnobotany group
Date: January 8, 2003 at 11:22:56 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

test

From: Tbgelfling@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Reply to Brett and Curtis
Date: January 8, 2003 at 10:28:57 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

i must agree that marc seems to have the best thing going. his program comes from the heart; he knows what it is to have this monster take over someone of your own flesh and blood. If ibogaine treatment centers get all competitive, they will go the same way of traditional rehab, it will be impossible to get any accurate information, and we’ll end up drowning in a sea opf red tape just like we woould at the hospital. Competition has no place here. If you are trying to advertize through this site at the expense of others, you are abusing this privilige. All you should do is let people know where ibogaine resources are and let them compare/comntrast/research for themselves. This is supposed to be about helping people, selflessly. Iboga experts/ administrators need to set an example for the rest pf the medical community so that they can see not only the flaws in their approach, but aspire to the more efective approaches they see in ibogaine centers. Rather than competing, we all need to combine our knowledge so that we can make sure all of the centers provide the best, most well researched iboga treatment available. There should be a separate list where ppl who work administering ibogaine and running detox programs can talk to each other and share helpful info/findings/observations/testimonials, working together rather thanagainst each other. How about IAIA: International Alliance for Ibogaine Awareness and apt Administration?;)tara

From: Tbgelfling@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] re: brett/curtis/ “medical supervision”
Date: January 8, 2003 at 10:18:05 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I am new to this forum, but I think I have something to say here. I agree that “medical supervision” needs to be more clearly defined. I have been in rehabs where the medical supervision was so sutthroat sober that they considered seizures a normal part of withdrawal and we never knew who’d be next to keel over at the dinner table b/c they went cold turkey off of years of benzos/methadone/heroin/ barbituates/ alcohol. Once upon a time, the term “Doctor” meant nothing more than a trusted and learned friend who alided the ailing. Now its like “my opinion cannot be challenged!bow down before me! i am a DOCTOR! look at the white coat! you know nothing!”
The fact is that medical schools turn out hundreds of thousands of “doctors” each year ill equipped to deal with addiction. The incredibly small amount of training they get on the subject is appaling. If you doubt this, just talk to anyone on methadone who has ever had to go to the er, have surgery, or dentalwork. I think I would feel comfortable taking ibogaine from a herbologist who probably has a much greater understanding of methadone than most “doctors.” I know I’d much rather take it from a person who had a more liberal view of addiction than a doctor: example: although it acts as a tonic to the appetite and nerves, making recovery about half as painful, if not more (ref “Junkie”), no rehab is going to bring you a joint before a meal or with the ibogaine if it is fraking you out too much. I know several ppl who have undergone ibogaine treatment outside the us, and all of them relied on marijuana to stimulate appetite and settle weak stomachs (when needed) new to ibogaine. However, my knowledge tells me that you can’t just stop taking methadone cold turkey, take ibogaine, and expect not to be sick. There is also the issue of other medications. What of the patient who has to take Klonopin and Paxil for panic attacks? Depending on the length and nature of the program, who will prescribe and dispense them? I think there should be a person on call who has the authority to administer medications in an emergengy (many detoxing patients do have siezures and someone must be there to administer an antisiezure med. Furthermore, if a person was too sensitive to ibogaine, they may need something to calm them down: an antipsychotic, a benzodiazepine, a joint. It is a tough call. Still, if doctors (and I speak of US doctors) had a better knowledge of and more liberal approach to trrreating addiction, we’d be glad to put ourselves in their hands. Unfortunately, almost all heroin addicts who have gone to a doctor for help have had a negaitive experience with the medical community and the stigmas they attatch to addiction. I can remember getting in a car accident on the way to the clinic, showing the officer my id card so he could call the clinic and hae them message the hospital i was going to so they could dose me. After a long argument, the doc finally dosed me: 10 10 milligram pills!!! (I am used to 3/4in of liquid). Despite the fact that they found no injuries, administered no other meds, etc, the doctor wouldn’t let me drive home. She said I would be impaired from the methadone. It was no use explaining that i took 110 milligrams each morning and drove away to teach school! I think it takes a special doctor along with outstanding treatment administrators to make it work. The doctor cannot have stigmas, be tiied to an AA model of recovery, and he must have an extensive knowledge of addiction and alternative therapies. He should work closely with a herbologist. As long as he can be reached on the phone at all times foor emergencies and there is someone there (along with a pharmacy) to administer his orders/ suggestions, I think there is a lot of room here. The point is keeping patients safe and not to get the clinic in trouble for practicing medicine without a licence. Its like Patch Adams, but with drug addiction. This is my first posting. I hope to learn  much and get off of the 110 mg of methadone I have to drive across town and pick up 6 days a week at 11 dollars a day. (Absurd, as I know doctors who have prescribed ppl 30 day supplies at very large amounts; like 350 10 milligram wafers for 35.00. The drug is not very expensive to make, and whn i look around at the timy clinic with its tiny staff, knowing no one but the head honcho makes crap, I have to wonder where my money goes. Speaking of medical supervision, while there is a dr. who comes in 1x/wk and technically prescribes the methadone, she is more of a technicality than anything else. I saw her twice, 2 years ago whenI transfered to this clinic, and again to get permission to raise my dose ( after that, my counselor was able to give permission up to 100 millis. actually, i could just ask for more up to 100 milligrams w/ no permission. Needless to say, lots of ppl are on 10 milligrams. Methadone is a nasty thing to have to deal with, I hatte it all. Despite the posters from nama on the walls, anytime a patient sites info from an advocacy group like nama, the direcor claims that the clinic doesn’t have to follow any of those things. What is the deal with that? tara

From: Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Request to test Herbal Samples from Ethnobotany group
Date: January 8, 2003 at 6:46:07 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I don’t have a crude drug, only highly refined HCl – so I guess it’s not good for his purposes…

OK, I DO have a few needles of pure IBOgaine (http://www.geocities.com/ibopictures/micro.html), less than 1 mg, but need them myself… as a reference ;-))

And here’s his addresse (for anyone who didn’t get it)

> From :
> Dr.G.V.R.Joseph M.A.,M.Sc.,Ph.D.,N.D..
> Research Officer
> Central Research Institute (Ay)
> (CCRAS, Min. of Health and F.W.Government of India)
> Cheruthuruthy, Trichur (Dist)
> Kerala ­ 679531, INDIA.

Marko

At 23:00 7.1.2003, you wrote:
Indra, Ethnogarden, Marko, anyone else?

Any interest in sending these guys some samples (few
mg-gm it says)?

Brett

>From the Ethnobogany group on Yahoo

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ethnobotany/message/1320

From:  vijaya ratna joseph <joseph_gujjarlamudi@y…>
Date:  Tue Jan 7, 2003  10:26 am
Subject:  Re: Fw: [Ethnobotany] Attention Please

ADVERTISEMENT

From: doc4zen <doc4zen@adelphia.net>
Subject: [ibogaine] Remove me from this email
Date: January 7, 2003 at 8:19:19 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On 1/7/03 7:23 PM, “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:

Hey all,

Here’s my review of Bennett and McQueen ‘s book for High Times, (June, 2002 issue)

Sex, Drugs, and Violence- A Review by Preston Peet (March 1, 2002)

Sex, Drug, and Violence have not only been with humanity for eternity, but are all heavily documented in the Bible. Authors Chris Bennett and Neil McQueen have created an exhaustive study of both the Old and New Testaments in their new book, “Sex, Drugs, Violence, and the Bible”, (Forbidden Fruit Publishing), laying out in detail not only how entwined in both the Judaic and Christian faiths these subjects are, but also just how responsible they are in the formation of the religions themselves.

This book will disturb most devout followers of the Jewish and Christian faiths as portrayed in the modern Bible. Starting with the Old Testament tale of the Garden of Eden, asserting that the Tree of Life was cannabis-sativa, and that the Cain and Abel story “may in fact have been a contrived piece of propaganda against certain sacrificial rites of Near Eastern fertility cults,” the authors move merrily along, documenting various respected religious figures who partake in the smoke of cannabis-laden incense and other psychedelic substances, fornicate, and commit slaughter before, during and after communing with their God.

The authors then dissect the New Testament, giving evidence that not only may Jesus have been married, and/or gay, but that to attain his Messiah-hood, he was anointed by John the Baptist with an oil that contained large amounts of cannabis. Most alarmingly to the devout, Jesus and his disciples may have pulled off an elaborate hoax utilizing drugs to feign death in the crucifixion and resurrection incident.

The authors rely not only on the tracts the modern Bible contains, but also on many early Jewish and Christian texts, like those of the Gnostics, that were excluded as heretical by early Church fathers. Bennett and McQueen assert that religion, as portrayed in the Bible today, is basically a tool used in a conspiracy to further isolate humanity “from the natural world – Eden, which continually finds itself buried beneath cites and asphalt – The Highway to Hell is indeed paved. The rediscovery of the entheogens [plant hallucinogens] may offer us a means of reacquaintance with the natural order, and a way to return back to the garden. For if there is one thing that can break through the pavement encasing our earthly paradise, it’s a weed.”

—– Original Message —–
From: Scott Littleton <mailto:yokatta@oxy.edu>
To: Dana Beal <mailto:dana@cures-not-wars.org>  ; ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: dansmith@clark.net ; lensman@stardrive.org ; hward@wineshopper.com ; DDanforbes@aol.com ; daniel@breakingopenthehead.com ; Mark@k-dunn.freeserve.co.uk ; IMDJam@cs.com ; gbekkum@mediaone.net ; Gary@osborn-day.freeserve.co.uk ; gschwart@u.arizona.edu ; e-merrill2@ti.com ; Bob Ezergailis <mailto:morpheal@bserv.com>  ; cynthia ford <mailto:maruta@wco.com>  ; G. G. Ford <mailto:swimp@shaw.ca>  ; brumac@compuserve.com ; kklingon@cwcom.net ; cyrano@aqua.ocn.ne.jp ; Adrian <mailto:afme@ihug.co.nz>  ; dewatson@sunflower.com ; CloudRider@aol.com ; JagdishM@aol.com ; phylegyas@hotmail.com ; schwann@webtrance.co.za ; ibogalab@hotmail.com ; zentarot@hotmail.com ; Paul DeRienzo <mailto:pdr@echonyc.com>  ; Stews@radiks.net ; foozleman@worldnet.att.net ; bmasel@tds.net ; heff01@email.msn.com ; kingfelix@mediaone.net ; luxefair@bellsouth.net ; cardboard_dada@yahoo.com ; prophets@maui.net ; m.pilkington@virgin.net ; PCLARK@JJHILL.ORG ; delaneyw@shasta.com ; Edward Jahn <mailto:ejahn@barnard.edu>  ; derlock@mailexcite.com ; Andre Welling <mailto:andre.welling@db.com>  ; Mitchel Cohen <mailto:mitchelcohen@mindspring.com>  ; MUTANEX Command HAWAI’I <mailto:mutanex@aloha.net>  ; miriamwhite420@hotmail.com ; ibogaine@mindvox.com ; Nick Sandberg <mailto:nick.sandberg@virgin.net>  ; George Clayton Johnson <mailto:hempjack@earthlink.net>  ; axiom@greatmystery.org ; dancegroove@nyc.rr.com ; warcry@indymedia.org ; Jay Statzer <mailto:jstatzer@qtm.net>  ; philipkdick@yahoogroups.com ; preston peet <mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 6:35 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] RE: Sacrament Wars! (Episode 39)

Yes, this makes eminent sense to me.  I’ve long been convinced that cannabis played an important role in many ancient belief systems, including that of the Greeks as well.  Indeed, the so-called “noxious vapors” (cf. Lucan, et al.) that surrounded the Delphic Oracle’s Pythia while she sat on the tripod was possessed by Apollo were almost certainly produced by burning cannabis directly beneath the manteion, or divination chamber.  This seems to have been a secret the Delphic priests picked up from the Scythians, who, as Herodotus reports, regularly fumigated themselves with smoke from burning hemp seeds (see my article “The Pneuma Enthusiastikon: On the Possibility of Hallucinogenic ‘Vapors’ at Delphi and Dodona,” ETHOS 14:76-91, 1986).  That the Hebrews, especially Hebrew mystics & healers, like Yeshua ben Yosuf (aka in Latin as “Jesus”) also made use of this psychotropic substance is extremely probable. Thus, in effect, Jesus, John the Baptist, and others of that ilk, like the Pythia and the Scythian shamans who used cannabis in their rituals, were all probably “stoners”!

Cheers,
Scott

C. SCOTT LITTLETON
Professor of Anthropology, Emeritus
Occidental College
Los Angeles, CA 90041
TEL (323) 255-5477
FAX (323) 982-0264
http://www.oxy.edu/~yokatta/home/htm

“Any sufficiently advanced technology is
indistinguishable from magic.”
–Sir Arthur C. Clarke

“I think we’re property…”
–Charles Fort

—–Original Message—–
From: Dana Beal [mailto:dana@cures-not-wars.org]
Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 12:25 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: dansmith@clark.net; lensman@stardrive.org; hward@wineshopper.com;
DDanforbes@aol.com; daniel@breakingopenthehead.com;
Mark@k-dunn.freeserve.co.uk; IMDJam@cs.com; gbekkum@mediaone.net;
Gary@osborn-day.freeserve.co.uk; gschwart@u.arizona.edu;
e-merrill2@ti.com; Bob Ezergailis; cynthia ford; G. G. Ford;
brumac@compuserve.com; Scott Littleton; kklingon@cwcom.net;
cyrano@aqua.ocn.ne.jp; Adrian; dewatson@sunflower.com;
CloudRider@aol.com; JagdishM@aol.com; phylegyas@hotmail.com;
schwann@webtrance.co.za; ibogalab@hotmail.com; zentarot@hotmail.com;
Paul DeRienzo; Stews@radiks.net; foozleman@worldnet.att.net;
bmasel@tds.net; heff01@email.msn.com; kingfelix@mediaone.net;
luxefair@bellsouth.net; cardboard_dada@yahoo.com; prophets@maui.net;
m.pilkington@virgin.net; PCLARK@JJHILL.ORG; delaneyw@shasta.com; Edward
Jahn; derlock@mailexcite.com; Andre Welling; Mitchel Cohen; MUTANEX
Command HAWAI’I; miriamwhite420@hotmail.com; ibogaine@mindvox.com; Nick
Sandberg; George Clayton Johnson; axiom@greatmystery.org;
dancegroove@nyc.rr.com; warcry@indymedia.org; Jay Statzer;
philipkdick@yahoogroups.com; preston peet
Subject: Sacrament Wars! (Episode 39)

Pubdate: Mon, 06 Jan 2003
Source: Guardian, The (UK)
Copyright: 2003 Guardian Newspapers Limited
Contact: letters@guardian.co.uk
Website: http://www.guardian.co.uk/guardian/
Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/175
Author: Duncan Campbell, in Los Angeles
Cited: High Times http://www.hightimes.com/
Bookmarks: http://www.mapinc.org/spirit.htm (Spiritual or Sacramental)
http://www.mapinc.org/mmj.htm (Cannabis – Medicinal)

JESUS ‘HEALED USING CANNABIS’

Jesus was almost certainly a cannabis user and an early proponent of
the medicinal properties of the drug, according to a study of
scriptural texts published this month. The study suggests that Jesus
and his disciples used the drug to carry out miraculous healings.

The anointing oil used by Jesus and his disciples contained an
ingredient called kaneh-bosem which has since been identified as
cannabis extract, according to an article by Chris Bennett in the
drugs magazine, High Times, entitled Was Jesus a Stoner? The incense
used by Jesus in ceremonies also contained a cannabis extract,
suggests Mr Bennett, who quotes scholars to back his claims.

“There can be little doubt about a role for cannabis in Judaic
religion,” Carl Ruck, professor of classical mythology at Boston
University said.

URL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v03.n020.a08.html

——————————

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] RE: Sacrament Wars! (Episode 39)
Date: January 7, 2003 at 7:23:47 PM EST
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>, <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, “Dana Beal” <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Cc: <philipkdick@yahoogroups.com>, “Jay Statzer” <jstatzer@qtm.net>, “warcry@indymedia.org” <warcrycinema@yahoo.com>, <dancegroove@nyc.rr.com>, <axiom@greatmystery.org>, “George Clayton Johnson” <hempjack@earthlink.net>, “Nick Sandberg” <nick.sandberg@virgin.net>, <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <miriamwhite420@hotmail.com>, “MUTANEX Command HAWAI’I” <mutanex@aloha.net>, “Mitchel Cohen” <mitchelcohen@mindspring.com>, “Andre Welling” <andre.welling@db.com>, <derlock@mailexcite.com>, “Edward Jahn” <ejahn@barnard.edu>, <delaneyw@shasta.com>, <PCLARK@JJHILL.ORG>, <m.pilkington@virgin.net>, <prophets@maui.net>, <cardboard_dada@yahoo.com>, <luxefair@bellsouth.net>, <kingfelix@mediaone.net>, <heff01@email.msn.com>, <bmasel@tds.net>, <foozleman@worldnet.att.net>, <Stews@radiks.net>, “Paul DeRienzo” <pdr@echonyc.com>, <zentarot@hotmail.com>, <ibogalab@hotmail.com>, <schwann@webtrance.co.za>, <phylegyas@hotmail.com>, <JagdishM@aol.com>, <CloudRider@aol.com>, <dewatson@sunflower.com>, “Adrian” <afme@ihug.co.nz>, <cyrano@aqua.ocn.ne.jp>, <kklingon@cwcom.net>, <brumac@compuserve.com>, “G. G. Ford” <swimp@shaw.ca>, “cynthia ford” <maruta@wco.com>, “Bob Ezergailis” <morpheal@bserv.com>, <e-merrill2@ti.com>, <gschwart@u.arizona.edu>, <Gary@osborn-day.freeserve.co.uk>, <gbekkum@mediaone.net>, <IMDJam@cs.com>, <Mark@k-dunn.freeserve.co.uk>, <daniel@breakingopenthehead.com>, <DDanforbes@aol.com>, <hward@wineshopper.com>, <lensman@stardrive.org>, <dansmith@clark.net>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey all,
Here’s my review of Bennett and McQueen ‘s book for High Times, (June, 2002 issue)
Sex, Drugs, and Violence- A Review by Preston Peet (March 1, 2002)
Sex, Drug, and Violence have not only been with humanity for eternity, but are all heavily documented in the Bible. Authors Chris Bennett and Neil McQueen have created an exhaustive study of both the Old and New Testaments in their new book, “Sex, Drugs, Violence, and the Bible”, (Forbidden Fruit Publishing), laying out in detail not only how entwined in both the Judaic and Christian faiths these subjects are, but also just how responsible they are in the formation of the religions themselves.
This book will disturb most devout followers of the Jewish and Christian faiths as portrayed in the modern Bible. Starting with the Old Testament tale of the Garden of Eden, asserting that the Tree of Life was cannabis-sativa, and that the Cain and Abel story “may in fact have been a contrived piece of propaganda against certain sacrificial rites of Near Eastern fertility cults,” the authors move merrily along, documenting various respected religious figures who partake in the smoke of cannabis-laden incense and other psychedelic substances, fornicate, and commit slaughter before, during and after communing with their God.
The authors then dissect the New Testament, giving evidence that not only may Jesus have been married, and/or gay, but that to attain his Messiah-hood, he was anointed by John the Baptist with an oil that contained large amounts of cannabis. Most alarmingly to the devout, Jesus and his disciples may have pulled off an elaborate hoax utilizing drugs to feign death in the crucifixion and resurrection incident.
The authors rely not only on the tracts the modern Bible contains, but also on many early Jewish and Christian texts, like those of the Gnostics, that were excluded as heretical by early Church fathers. Bennett and McQueen assert that religion, as portrayed in the Bible today, is basically a tool used in a conspiracy to further isolate humanity “from the natural world – Eden, which continually finds itself buried beneath cites and asphalt – The Highway to Hell is indeed paved. The rediscovery of the entheogens [plant hallucinogens] may offer us a means of reacquaintance with the natural order, and a way to return back to the garden. For if there is one thing that can break through the pavement encasing our earthly paradise, it’s a weed.”
—– Original Message —–
From: Scott Littleton
To: Dana Beal ; ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: dansmith@clark.net ; lensman@stardrive.org ; hward@wineshopper.com ; DDanforbes@aol.com ; daniel@breakingopenthehead.com ; Mark@k-dunn.freeserve.co.uk ; IMDJam@cs.com ; gbekkum@mediaone.net ; Gary@osborn-day.freeserve.co.uk ; gschwart@u.arizona.edu ; e-merrill2@ti.com ; Bob Ezergailis ; cynthia ford ; G. G. Ford ; brumac@compuserve.com ; kklingon@cwcom.net ; cyrano@aqua.ocn.ne.jp ; Adrian ; dewatson@sunflower.com ; CloudRider@aol.com ; JagdishM@aol.com ; phylegyas@hotmail.com ; schwann@webtrance.co.za ; ibogalab@hotmail.com ; zentarot@hotmail.com ; Paul DeRienzo ; Stews@radiks.net ; foozleman@worldnet.att.net ; bmasel@tds.net ; heff01@email.msn.com ; kingfelix@mediaone.net ; luxefair@bellsouth.net ; cardboard_dada@yahoo.com ; prophets@maui.net ; m.pilkington@virgin.net ; PCLARK@JJHILL.ORG ; delaneyw@shasta.com ; Edward Jahn ; derlock@mailexcite.com ; Andre Welling ; Mitchel Cohen ; MUTANEX Command HAWAI’I ; miriamwhite420@hotmail.com ; ibogaine@mindvox.com ; Nick Sandberg ; George Clayton Johnson ; axiom@greatmystery.org ; dancegroove@nyc.rr.com ; warcry@indymedia.org ; Jay Statzer ; philipkdick@yahoogroups.com ; preston peet
Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 6:35 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] RE: Sacrament Wars! (Episode 39)

Yes, this makes eminent sense to me.  I’ve long been convinced that cannabis played an important role in many ancient belief systems, including that of the Greeks as well.  Indeed, the so-called “noxious vapors” (cf. Lucan, et al.) that surrounded the Delphic Oracle’s Pythia while she sat on the tripod was possessed by Apollo were almost certainly produced by burning cannabis directly beneath the manteion, or divination chamber.  This seems to have been a secret the Delphic priests picked up from the Scythians, who, as Herodotus reports, regularly fumigated themselves with smoke from burning hemp seeds (see my article “The Pneuma Enthusiastikon: On the Possibility of Hallucinogenic ‘Vapors’ at Delphi and Dodona,” ETHOS 14:76-91, 1986).  That the Hebrews, especially Hebrew mystics & healers, like Yeshua ben Yosuf (aka in Latin as “Jesus”) also made use of this psychotropic substance is extremely probable. Thus, in effect, Jesus, John the Baptist, and others of that ilk, like the Pythia and the Scythian shamans who used cannabis in their rituals, were all probably “stoners”!

Cheers,
Scott

C. SCOTT LITTLETON
Professor of Anthropology, Emeritus
Occidental College
Los Angeles, CA 90041
TEL (323) 255-5477
FAX (323) 982-0264
http://www.oxy.edu/~yokatta/home/htm

“Any sufficiently advanced technology is
indistinguishable from magic.”
–Sir Arthur C. Clarke

“I think we’re property…”
–Charles Fort

—–Original Message—–
From: Dana Beal [mailto:dana@cures-not-wars.org]
Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 12:25 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: dansmith@clark.net; lensman@stardrive.org; hward@wineshopper.com;
DDanforbes@aol.com; daniel@breakingopenthehead.com;
Mark@k-dunn.freeserve.co.uk; IMDJam@cs.com; gbekkum@mediaone.net;
Gary@osborn-day.freeserve.co.uk; gschwart@u.arizona.edu;
e-merrill2@ti.com; Bob Ezergailis; cynthia ford; G. G. Ford;
brumac@compuserve.com; Scott Littleton; kklingon@cwcom.net;
cyrano@aqua.ocn.ne.jp; Adrian; dewatson@sunflower.com;
CloudRider@aol.com; JagdishM@aol.com; phylegyas@hotmail.com;
schwann@webtrance.co.za; ibogalab@hotmail.com; zentarot@hotmail.com;
Paul DeRienzo; Stews@radiks.net; foozleman@worldnet.att.net;
bmasel@tds.net; heff01@email.msn.com; kingfelix@mediaone.net;
luxefair@bellsouth.net; cardboard_dada@yahoo.com; prophets@maui.net;
m.pilkington@virgin.net; PCLARK@JJHILL.ORG; delaneyw@shasta.com; Edward
Jahn; derlock@mailexcite.com; Andre Welling; Mitchel Cohen; MUTANEX
Command HAWAI’I; miriamwhite420@hotmail.com; ibogaine@mindvox.com; Nick
Sandberg; George Clayton Johnson; axiom@greatmystery.org;
dancegroove@nyc.rr.com; warcry@indymedia.org; Jay Statzer;
philipkdick@yahoogroups.com; preston peet
Subject: Sacrament Wars! (Episode 39)

Pubdate: Mon, 06 Jan 2003
Source: Guardian, The (UK)
Copyright: 2003 Guardian Newspapers Limited
Contact: letters@guardian.co.uk
Website: http://www.guardian.co.uk/guardian/
Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/175
Author: Duncan Campbell, in Los Angeles
Cited: High Times http://www.hightimes.com/
Bookmarks: http://www.mapinc.org/spirit.htm (Spiritual or Sacramental)
http://www.mapinc.org/mmj.htm (Cannabis – Medicinal)

JESUS ‘HEALED USING CANNABIS’

Jesus was almost certainly a cannabis user and an early proponent of
the medicinal properties of the drug, according to a study of
scriptural texts published this month. The study suggests that Jesus
and his disciples used the drug to carry out miraculous healings.

The anointing oil used by Jesus and his disciples contained an
ingredient called kaneh-bosem which has since been identified as
cannabis extract, according to an article by Chris Bennett in the
drugs magazine, High Times, entitled Was Jesus a Stoner? The incense
used by Jesus in ceremonies also contained a cannabis extract,
suggests Mr Bennett, who quotes scholars to back his claims.

“There can be little doubt about a role for cannabis in Judaic
religion,” Carl Ruck, professor of classical mythology at Boston
University said.

URL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v03.n020.a08.html

——————————

From: “Scott Littleton” <yokatta@oxy.edu>
Subject: [ibogaine] RE: Sacrament Wars! (Episode 39)
Date: January 7, 2003 at 6:35:52 PM EST
To: “Dana Beal” <dana@cures-not-wars.org>, <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Cc: <dansmith@clark.net>, <lensman@stardrive.org>, <hward@wineshopper.com>, <DDanforbes@aol.com>, <daniel@breakingopenthehead.com>, <Mark@k-dunn.freeserve.co.uk>, <IMDJam@cs.com>, <gbekkum@mediaone.net>, <Gary@osborn-day.freeserve.co.uk>, <gschwart@u.arizona.edu>, <e-merrill2@ti.com>, “Bob Ezergailis” <morpheal@bserv.com>, “cynthia ford” <maruta@wco.com>, “G. G. Ford” <swimp@shaw.ca>, <brumac@compuserve.com>, <kklingon@cwcom.net>, <cyrano@aqua.ocn.ne.jp>, “Adrian” <afme@ihug.co.nz>, <dewatson@sunflower.com>, <CloudRider@aol.com>, <JagdishM@aol.com>, <phylegyas@hotmail.com>, <schwann@webtrance.co.za>, <ibogalab@hotmail.com>, <zentarot@hotmail.com>, “Paul DeRienzo” <pdr@echonyc.com>, <Stews@radiks.net>, <foozleman@worldnet.att.net>, <bmasel@tds.net>, <heff01@email.msn.com>, <kingfelix@mediaone.net>, <luxefair@bellsouth.net>, <cardboard_dada@yahoo.com>, <prophets@maui.net>, <m.pilkington@virgin.net>, <PCLARK@JJHILL.ORG>, <delaneyw@shasta.com>, “Edward Jahn” <ejahn@barnard.edu>, <derlock@mailexcite.com>, “Andre Welling” <andre.welling@db.com>, “Mitchel Cohen” <mitchelcohen@mindspring.com>, “MUTANEX Command HAWAI’I” <mutanex@aloha.net>, <miriamwhite420@hotmail.com>, <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, “Nick Sandberg” <nick.sandberg@virgin.net>, “George Clayton Johnson” <hempjack@earthlink.net>, <axiom@greatmystery.org>, <dancegroove@nyc.rr.com>, “warcry@indymedia.org” <warcrycinema@yahoo.com>, “Jay Statzer” <jstatzer@qtm.net>, <philipkdick@yahoogroups.com>, “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yes, this makes eminent sense to me.  I’ve long been convinced that cannabis played an important role in many ancient belief systems, including that of the Greeks as well.  Indeed, the so-called “noxious vapors” (cf. Lucan, et al.) that surrounded the Delphic Oracle’s Pythia while she sat on the tripod was possessed by Apollo were almost certainly produced by burning cannabis directly beneath the manteion, or divination chamber.  This seems to have been a secret the Delphic priests picked up from the Scythians, who, as Herodotus reports, regularly fumigated themselves with smoke from burning hemp seeds (see my article “The Pneuma Enthusiastikon: On the Possibility of Hallucinogenic ‘Vapors’ at Delphi and Dodona,” ETHOS 14:76-91, 1986).  That the Hebrews, especially Hebrew mystics & healers, like Yeshua ben Yosuf (aka in Latin as “Jesus”) also made use of this psychotropic substance is extremely probable. Thus, in effect, Jesus, John the Baptist, and others of that ilk, like the Pythia and the Scythian shamans who used cannabis in their rituals, were all probably “stoners”!

Cheers,
Scott

C. SCOTT LITTLETON
Professor of Anthropology, Emeritus
Occidental College
Los Angeles, CA 90041
TEL (323) 255-5477
FAX (323) 982-0264
http://www.oxy.edu/~yokatta/home/htm

“Any sufficiently advanced technology is
indistinguishable from magic.”
–Sir Arthur C. Clarke

“I think we’re property…”
–Charles Fort

—–Original Message—–
From: Dana Beal [mailto:dana@cures-not-wars.org]
Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 12:25 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: dansmith@clark.net; lensman@stardrive.org; hward@wineshopper.com;
DDanforbes@aol.com; daniel@breakingopenthehead.com;
Mark@k-dunn.freeserve.co.uk; IMDJam@cs.com; gbekkum@mediaone.net;
Gary@osborn-day.freeserve.co.uk; gschwart@u.arizona.edu;
e-merrill2@ti.com; Bob Ezergailis; cynthia ford; G. G. Ford;
brumac@compuserve.com; Scott Littleton; kklingon@cwcom.net;
cyrano@aqua.ocn.ne.jp; Adrian; dewatson@sunflower.com;
CloudRider@aol.com; JagdishM@aol.com; phylegyas@hotmail.com;
schwann@webtrance.co.za; ibogalab@hotmail.com; zentarot@hotmail.com;
Paul DeRienzo; Stews@radiks.net; foozleman@worldnet.att.net;
bmasel@tds.net; heff01@email.msn.com; kingfelix@mediaone.net;
luxefair@bellsouth.net; cardboard_dada@yahoo.com; prophets@maui.net;
m.pilkington@virgin.net; PCLARK@JJHILL.ORG; delaneyw@shasta.com; Edward
Jahn; derlock@mailexcite.com; Andre Welling; Mitchel Cohen; MUTANEX
Command HAWAI’I; miriamwhite420@hotmail.com; ibogaine@mindvox.com; Nick
Sandberg; George Clayton Johnson; axiom@greatmystery.org;
dancegroove@nyc.rr.com; warcry@indymedia.org; Jay Statzer;
philipkdick@yahoogroups.com; preston peet
Subject: Sacrament Wars! (Episode 39)

Pubdate: Mon, 06 Jan 2003
Source: Guardian, The (UK)
Copyright: 2003 Guardian Newspapers Limited
Contact: letters@guardian.co.uk
Website: http://www.guardian.co.uk/guardian/
Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/175
Author: Duncan Campbell, in Los Angeles
Cited: High Times http://www.hightimes.com/
Bookmarks: http://www.mapinc.org/spirit.htm (Spiritual or Sacramental)
http://www.mapinc.org/mmj.htm (Cannabis – Medicinal)

JESUS ‘HEALED USING CANNABIS’

Jesus was almost certainly a cannabis user and an early proponent of
the medicinal properties of the drug, according to a study of
scriptural texts published this month. The study suggests that Jesus
and his disciples used the drug to carry out miraculous healings.

The anointing oil used by Jesus and his disciples contained an
ingredient called kaneh-bosem which has since been identified as
cannabis extract, according to an article by Chris Bennett in the
drugs magazine, High Times, entitled Was Jesus a Stoner? The incense
used by Jesus in ceremonies also contained a cannabis extract,
suggests Mr Bennett, who quotes scholars to back his claims.

“There can be little doubt about a role for cannabis in Judaic
religion,” Carl Ruck, professor of classical mythology at Boston
University said.

URL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v03.n020.a08.html

——————————

From: “Ethnogarden Botanicals Corp.” <ethnogarden@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Request to test Herbal Samples from Ethnobotany group
Date: January 7, 2003 at 6:37:21 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sure,

Be glad to, do you have their full e-mail address, it appears to be cut off in the text you quoted.

Thanks!
Ethnogarden Botanicals Corp.
www.ethnogarden.com
ethnogarden@sympatico.ca
Tel: +(01)705-735-0540
Fax:+(01)705-735-4332
—– Original Message —–
From: Brett Calabrese
To: ibogaine@ibogaine.org ; ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: indra@indra.dk
Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 5:00 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Request to test Herbal Samples from Ethnobotany group

Indra, Ethnogarden, Marko, anyone else?

Any interest in sending these guys some samples (few
mg-gm it says)?

Brett

From the Ethnobogany group on Yahoo

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ethnobotany/message/1320

From:  vijaya ratna joseph <joseph_gujjarlamudi@y…>
Date:  Tue Jan 7, 2003  10:26 am
Subject:  Re: Fw: [Ethnobotany] Attention Please

ADVERTISEMENT
Dear Ethno botany Group members,

Hello to every one. Some time back I requested our
group members to supply few gm of crude drug which is
required for standardization purpose. Unfortunately I
haven’t received any positive not from any member on
the contrary I learnt some of the members have some
doubts about my research plans. The simple methodology
that I am using is very helpful to the researchers who
are working in this lane and it is equally helpful to
the plant collectors and traders. Some people have the
tendency to pluck whole plant / s for mere
identification purpose. In such case this method can
be considered as an eco-friendly method.

Even though I am specialized in multidiscipline I am
not conducting any animal experiments. Here I would
like to tell you little about my background. When I
joined for M.Sc. in 1989 I got developmental plant
anatomy specialization. Because of my interest in my
subject I was allotted Herbal Drug Standardization
topic for my Ph.D. work. It was my dream that one day
I should come up with such a simple techniques through
which one can identify the crude drugs accurately.
Since then I was working in this lane. Apart from my
allotted plants so many plants I studied (without any
financial assistance). In 1996 before completion of my
Ph.D. viva I got my first posting at India’s National
Laboratory, RRL (CSIR), Jammu and I was put under
Prof. S.S.Handa then Director. I continued my work
there and today I have more than 1,500 microphographs
but still this is not sufficient to complete my task
hence I requested the Ethno botany group members and
other leading scientists to help in my work by
supplying few gm of genuine crude drugs. All these
years on my own I carried this work. In 1999 I joined
in CCRAS but there is no much difference in policies.
To be honest with you I am not all making this project
for any profits and who ever supply the drug their
contribution is duly acknowledged any one want to see
my earlier work relevant portion of the work I can
send to them.

Except Dr.Jim Duke I haven’t received any positive
note >from any one and I hope the above note will clear
some of the doubts developed by the fellow members.

Thanking you.

Yours sincerely

G.V.R.Joseph.

From :
Dr.G.V.R.Joseph M.A.,M.Sc.,Ph.D.,N.D..
Research Officer
Central Research Institute (Ay)
(CCRAS, Min. of Health and F.W.Government of India)
Cheruthuruthy, Trichur (Dist)
Kerala – 679531.
INDIA.

— Chrissie Wildwood <wisteria.wildwood@v…>
wrote:
> I’m forwarding this message as a reminder that
> ethnobotanical information is
> used for pharmaceutical purposes. I’m not saying
> that Dr Joseph uses animal
> testing in his personal researches. However, I know
> for a fact that the
> Central Research Institute (Ayurveda) with whom he
> is associated does
> conduct such experiments.
>
> If Dr Joseph is still in this group, I’d be most
> interested to hear his
> reasons for promoting standardisation, particularly
> if traditional use of
> the ‘crude drug’ has proved efficacious?
>
> I was going to ask this question when this post
> first came in. However, at
> the time I had already contributed many posts and
> hoped someone else would
> ask the same question.
>
> Chrissie
>
> —–Original Message—–
> From: vijaya ratna joseph
> <joseph_gujjarlamudi@y…>
> To: Ethnobotany@yahoogroups.com
> <Ethnobotany@yahoogroups.com>
> Cc: joseph_gujjarlamudi@h…
> <joseph_gujjarlamudi@h…>
> Date: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 08:00
> Subject: [Ethnobotany] Attention Please
>
>
> Dear Ethnobotany group members,
>
> This is Joseph working in the field of Herbal Drug
> Standardisation. We are trying to develop finger
> prints for crude drugs (that may be in powdered /
> dried / small pIeces) by using very simple
> microscopic
> techniques.
>
> The main object of my project is to identify any
> type
> of crude drug with 100 % acuuracy.
>
> For some drugs external morphological characters are
> sufficient for identification but for many crude
> drugs
> external morphological characters are inadequate for
> accurate identification. Here I am developing a data
> bank (by using very simply techniques) on most of
> the
> crude drugs that are supported by proper
> photomicrographs. We possessed more than 2,000 photo
> micrograhs. If any one wish to identify their crude
> drug by using the data that I AM developing they can
> very well identify their drugs.
>
> To keep my data more accurate I wish to examine the
> crude drugs from different regions. In this
> connection
> I need your support. I need few mg to gm crude drug.
> If you people can send, it will be good support for
> me and your contributions are duly acknowledged.
> Since
> this work is going to be a standard data base I
> prefer
> authentic samples. This work is no where associated
> with my official allotted work hence all these years
> I
> am carrying out the work with my own expenses.
>
> Recently I presented some of my findings in the
> “INTERNATIONAL AYURVEDA CONGRES” held at Cochin
> during
> Nov. 1- 4, 2002. I am here with attaching my paper
> presentation for your knowledge.
>
> I sincerely request every one of you to look in to
> the
> matter and do the needful what ever you can.
>
> Thanking you.
>
> Yours sincerely
>
> G.V.R.Joseph.
>
> From :
> Dr.G.V.R.Joseph M.A.,M.Sc.,Ph.D.,N.D..
> Research Officer
> Central Research Institute (Ay)
> (CCRAS, Min. of Health and F.W.Government of India)
> Cheruthuruthy, Trichur (Dist)
> Kerala – 679531, INDIA.
>
> Attachment file : Joseph.ppt.

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Request to test Herbal Samples from Ethnobotany group
Date: January 7, 2003 at 5:00:29 PM EST
To: ibogaine@ibogaine.org, ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: indra@indra.dk
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Indra, Ethnogarden, Marko, anyone else?

Any interest in sending these guys some samples (few
mg-gm it says)?

Brett

From the Ethnobogany group on Yahoo

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ethnobotany/message/1320

From:  vijaya ratna joseph <joseph_gujjarlamudi@y…>
Date:  Tue Jan 7, 2003  10:26 am
Subject:  Re: Fw: [Ethnobotany] Attention Please

ADVERTISEMENT

Dear Ethno botany Group members,

Hello to every one. Some time back I requested our
group members to supply few gm of crude drug which is
required for standardization purpose. Unfortunately I
haven’t received any positive not from any member on
the contrary I learnt some of the members have some
doubts about my research plans. The simple methodology
that I am using is very helpful to the researchers who
are working in this lane and it is equally helpful to
the plant collectors and traders. Some people have the
tendency to pluck whole plant / s for mere
identification purpose. In such case this method can
be considered as an eco-friendly method.

Even though I am specialized in multidiscipline I am
not conducting any animal experiments. Here I would
like to tell you little about my background. When I
joined for M.Sc. in 1989 I got developmental plant
anatomy specialization. Because of my interest in my
subject I was allotted Herbal Drug Standardization
topic for my Ph.D. work. It was my dream that one day
I should come up with such a simple techniques through
which one can identify the crude drugs accurately.
Since then I was working in this lane. Apart from my
allotted plants so many plants I studied (without any
financial assistance). In 1996 before completion of my
Ph.D. viva I got my first posting at India’s National
Laboratory, RRL (CSIR), Jammu and I was put under
Prof. S.S.Handa then Director. I continued my work
there and today I have more than 1,500 microphographs
but still this is not sufficient to complete my task
hence I requested the Ethno botany group members and
other leading scientists to help in my work by
supplying few gm of genuine crude drugs. All these
years on my own I carried this work. In 1999 I joined
in CCRAS but there is no much difference in policies.
To be honest with you I am not all making this project
for any profits and who ever supply the drug their
contribution is duly acknowledged any one want to see
my earlier work relevant portion of the work I can
send to them.

Except Dr.Jim Duke I haven’t received any positive
note from any one and I hope the above note will clear
some of the doubts developed by the fellow members.

Thanking you.

Yours sincerely

G.V.R.Joseph.

From :
Dr.G.V.R.Joseph M.A.,M.Sc.,Ph.D.,N.D..
Research Officer
Central Research Institute (Ay)
(CCRAS, Min. of Health and F.W.Government of India)
Cheruthuruthy, Trichur (Dist)
Kerala – 679531.
INDIA.

— Chrissie Wildwood <wisteria.wildwood@v…>
wrote:
I’m forwarding this message as a reminder that
ethnobotanical information is
used for pharmaceutical purposes. I’m not saying
that Dr Joseph uses animal
testing in his personal researches. However, I know
for a fact that the
Central Research Institute (Ayurveda) with whom he
is associated does
conduct such experiments.

If Dr Joseph is still in this group, I’d be most
interested to hear his
reasons for promoting standardisation, particularly
if traditional use of
the ‘crude drug’ has proved efficacious?

I was going to ask this question when this post
first came in. However, at
the time I had already contributed many posts and
hoped someone else would
ask the same question.

Chrissie

—–Original Message—–
From: vijaya ratna joseph
<joseph_gujjarlamudi@y…>
To: Ethnobotany@yahoogroups.com
<Ethnobotany@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: joseph_gujjarlamudi@h…
<joseph_gujjarlamudi@h…>
Date: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 08:00
Subject: [Ethnobotany] Attention Please

Dear Ethnobotany group members,

This is Joseph working in the field of Herbal Drug
Standardisation. We are trying to develop finger
prints for crude drugs (that may be in powdered /
dried / small pIeces) by using very simple
microscopic
techniques.

The main object of my project is to identify any
type
of crude drug with 100 % acuuracy.

For some drugs external morphological characters are
sufficient for identification but for many crude
drugs
external morphological characters are inadequate for
accurate identification. Here I am developing a data
bank (by using very simply techniques) on most of
the
crude drugs that are supported by proper
photomicrographs. We possessed more than 2,000 photo
micrograhs. If any one wish to identify their crude
drug by using the data that I AM developing they can
very well identify their drugs.

To keep my data more accurate I wish to examine the
crude drugs from different regions. In this
connection
I need your support. I need few mg to gm crude drug.
If you people can send, it will be good support for
me and your contributions are duly acknowledged.
Since
this work is going to be a standard data base I
prefer
authentic samples. This work is no where associated
with my official allotted work hence all these years
I
am carrying out the work with my own expenses.

Recently I presented some of my findings in the
“INTERNATIONAL AYURVEDA CONGRES” held at Cochin
during
Nov. 1- 4, 2002. I am here with attaching my paper
presentation for your knowledge.

I sincerely request every one of you to look in to
the
matter and do the needful what ever you can.

Thanking you.

Yours sincerely

G.V.R.Joseph.

From :
Dr.G.V.R.Joseph M.A.,M.Sc.,Ph.D.,N.D..
Research Officer
Central Research Institute (Ay)
(CCRAS, Min. of Health and F.W.Government of India)
Cheruthuruthy, Trichur (Dist)
Kerala – 679531, INDIA.

Attachment file : Joseph.ppt.

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Turning Curious Teens Into Crackheads
Date: January 7, 2003 at 3:56:03 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Pubdate: Fri, 03 Jan 2003
Source: Slate (US Web)
Copyright: 2003 Microsoft Corporation
Contact: http://slate.msn.com/code/fray/theFray.asp
Website: http://slate.msn.com/
Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/982
Author: Maia Szalavitz

TRICK OR TREATMENT

Teen Drug Programs Turn Curious Teens Into Crackheads.

America loves its quick fixes. Think your child might be on drugs? Test
him. Think your child’s school is full of addicts? Test them all. Institute
a policy of zero tolerance: One strike and it’s off to a drug treatment
program. Get those rotten apples out and clean them up before they can
poison the whole batch. Last year’s Supreme Court decision in Board of
Education v. Earls allowed for a massive expansion of drug testing in
schools. And increases in drug testing increase the numbers of offenders.
As a result, schools and juvenile courts are increasingly turning to both
“zero tolerance” and “treatment, not punishment” as a remedy.

The number of teenagers in drug treatment as a result of court coercion and
school diversion increased by nearly 50 percent between 1993 and 1998
according to the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services’ Substance
Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, and the number of teen
admissions to treatment programs in general rose from 95,000 in 1993 to
135,000 in 1999. But what if drug “treatment” doesn’t work for teens? What
if, rather than decreasing drug use, teen treatment actually encourages it
by labeling experimenting kids as lifelong addicts? What if it creates the
worst sorts of peer groups by mixing kids with mild problems with serious
drug users who are ready and willing to teach them to be junkies? What if
suggestible kids respond poorly to the philosophies that have made
Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous successful for many adults?
Then we’d be using “treatment” to turn ordinary adolescents into problem
drug abusers.

URL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v03.n020.a04.html

————

Maia on 12 step:

US: Breaking Out Of The 12-Step Lockstep

URL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v02.n1073.a09.html
Newshawk: anonymous
Pubdate: Sun, 09 Jun 2002
Source: Washington Post (DC)
Page: B03
Copyright: 2002 The Washington Post Company
Contact: letters@washpost.com
Website: http://www.washingtonpost.com/
Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/491
Author: Maia Szalavitz
Note: Maia Szalavitz, a New York writer, is co-author of
“Recovery Options:
The Complete Guide” (Wiley).

BREAKING OUT OF THE 12-STEP LOCKSTEP

In the 1980s and ’90s, 12-step programs like Alcoholics
Anonymous were the gold standard for addiction
treatment.  Even among the non-addicted, they had become an
accepted part of American culture.  In Tim
Robbins’s 1992 film, “The Player,” the title character
attended AA meetings not because he drank too
much but because that’s where the deals were being made.  In
1995, New York magazine suggested that
single women attend AA to meet men.

But today, the recovery movement — with its emphasis on
childhood victimization, lifetime attendance at
12-step groups and complete abstinence from all psychoactive
substances — hasfallen from pop culture
favor.  “There was a time when it was almost the ‘in thing’ to
say you were in recovery,” says William
White, author of “Slaying the Dragon,” a history of addiction
treatment.  Thankfully, that is no longer the
case.

Vogue, Elle and the New York Times Magazine have recently run
articles critical of the recovery
movement.  The “addictions” section of the bookstore — once
taking up several bookcases in superstores —
has shrunk to a few shelves, with a growing proportion of
critical books.  By the late ’90s, the number of
inpatient rehab facilities offering treatment centered on the
12-step process was half what it had been earlier
in the decade.  And AA membership, which grew explosively from
the late ’70s through the late ’80s, has
held steady at about 2 million since 1995.

Still, it is difficult to say goodbye to an organization and
philosophy that may have helped save my life.
Between the ages of 17 and 23, I was addicted to cocaine and
then heroin.  For the next 12 years, I was an
often enthusiastic participant in 12-step recovery.
Eventually, however, it became difficult to imagine
defining myself for the rest of my life in relation to
behavior that had taken up so few years of it.

During my last five years in the program, I had become
increasingly uncomfortable with what it presented
as truth: the notion, for example, that addiction is a
“chronic, progressive disease” that can only be arrested
by 12-stepping.  The more research I did, the more I learned
that much of what I had been told in rehab
was wrong.  And yet, I’d indisputably gotten better.  Once an
unemployed, 80-pound wreck, I had become
a healthy, productive science journalist.  That science part,
however, became the root of my problem with a
model based on anecdote as anodyne.

The 12-step model has always been rife with contradiction.
Its adherents recognize, for example, that
addiction is a disease, not a sin.  But their treatment isn’t
medical; it’s praying, confession and meeting.
And while they claim that the belief in a “God of your
understanding” on which the program rests is
spiritual, not religious, every court that has ever been asked
whether ordering people into such programs
violates the separation of church and state has disagreed with
the “non-religious” label.

So why have the contradictions come to the fore now? For me,
the first step came in 2000 when I wrote
about New York’s Smithers Addiction Treatment and Research
Center and its attempts to modernize
treatment.  Its director, Alex DeLuca, saw that options needed
to be expanded beyond AA.  Guided by
DeLuca, Smithers began publishing studies funded by the
National Institute on Alcoholism and Alcohol
Abuse showing that adding treatment options, including support
for moderation rather than abstinence, was
effective.

However, when a group of people in recovery learned that those
options included moderation, they
protested, and DeLuca was fired.  Imagine cancer or AIDS
patients demonstrating against evidence-based
treatment offering more options.  This deeply distressed me,
as did AA’s religious aspects.  In any other
area of medicine, if a physician told you the only cure for
your condition was to join a support group that
involves “turning your will and your life” over to God ( AA’s
third step ), you’d seek a second opinion.

The insistence on the primacy of God in curing addiction also
means that treatment can’t change in
response to empirical evidence.  Which leaves us with a rehab
system based more on faith than fact.
Nowhere is this clearer than in the field’s response to
medication use.  The National Institute on Drug
Abuse is pouring big bucks into developing “drugs to fight
drugs” but, once approved, they sit on the
shelves because many rehab facilities don’t believe in
medication.  Until 1997, for example, the well-known
rehab facility Hazelden refused to provide antidepressants to
people who had both depression and
addiction.

Those who promote just one means of recovery are right to find
medication threatening.  When I finally
tried antidepressants, after years of resisting “drugs”
because I’d been told they might lead to relapse, my
disillusionment with the recovery movement grew.  Years of
groups and talking couldn’t do what those pills
did: allow me not to overreact emotionally, and thus to
improve my relationships and worry less.  I didn’t
need to “pray for my character defects to be lifted” ( AA’s
6th and 7th steps ) — I needed to fix my brain
chemistry.

This is not to say that I didn’t learn anything through
recovery groups.  The problem is their insistence that
their solutions should trump all others.  Many recovering
people now use medication and groups both —
but within the movement there is still an enormous hostility
toward this and a sense that people on
medications are somehow cheating by avoiding the pain that
leads to emotional growth.

Another contradiction in the notion of 12-step programs as a
medical treatment shows up in the judicial
system.  Logically, if addiction were a disease, prison and
laws would have no place in its treatment.
However, to secure support from the drug-war establishment,
many 12-step treatment providers argue that
addiction is a disease characterized by “denial” — despite
research showing thataddicts are no more likely
to be in denial than people with other diseases, and that most
addicts tell the truth about their drug use
when they won’t be punished for doing so.

Because of “denial,” however, many in-patient treatment
providers use methods that would be unheard of
for any other condition: restrictions on food and medications,
limits on sleep, hours of forced confessions
and public humiliation, bans on contact with relatives and, of
course, threats of prison for noncompliance.

If these programs wanted what was best for their patients,
they would support measures to fund more
treatment and divert people from jail.  Watching famous
12-steppers such as Martin Sheen fight against
California’s Proposition 36, which mandates treatment rather
than punishment for drug possession, was the
final straw for me.

If their argument is that people won’t attend treatment
without the threat of prison, how do they explain all
the alcoholics they treat? How, for that matter, do they
explain that 12-step programs were started by
volunteers? Their opposition only makes sense in the context
of a view of addicts as sinners, not patients.

The view that one can only recover via the moral improvement
of the 12 steps is doing more harm than
good.  It is supporting bad drug policy, preventing people
from getting the treatment they need and
hampering research.

Yet it is important not to dismiss 12-step programs entirely.
They provide a supportive community and
should be recommended as an option for people with addictions.
Let evidence-based research determine
how people are treated medically for drug problems.

Maia Szalavitz, a New York writer, is co-author of “Recovery
Options: The Complete Guide” ( Wiley ).

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Cannabis Still Vying for Lost Gnostic Sacrament…
Date: January 7, 2003 at 3:29:47 PM EST
To: philipkdick@yahoogroups.com
Cc: dansmith@clark.net, lensman@stardrive.org, hward@wineshopper.com, Mark@k-dunn.freeserve.co.uk, IMDJam@cs.com, gbekkum@mediaone.net, Gary@osborn-day.freeserve.co.uk, gschwart@u.arizona.edu, e-merrill2@ti.com, “Bob Ezergailis” <morpheal@bserv.com>, “cynthia ford” <maruta@wco.com>, “G. G. Ford” <swimp@shaw.ca>, <brumac@compuserve.com>, <yokatta@oxy.edu>, <kklingon@cwcom.net>, <cyrano@aqua.ocn.ne.jp>, “Adrian” <afme@ihug.co.nz>, dewatson@sunflower.com, CloudRider@aol.com, JagdishM@aol.com, phylegyas@hotmail.com, schwann@webtrance.co.za, ibogalab@hotmail.com, zentarot@hotmail.com, Paul DeRienzo <pdr@echonyc.com>, Stews@radiks.net, foozleman@worldnet.att.net, bmasel@tds.net, heff01@email.msn.com, kingfelix@mediaone.net, PTPEET@cs.com, luxefair@bellsouth.net, cardboard_dada@yahoo.com, prophets@maui.net, m.pilkington@virgin.net, PCLARK@JJHILL.ORG, delaneyw@shasta.com, Edward Jahn <ejahn@barnard.edu>, derlock@mailexcite.com, “Andre Welling” <andre.welling@db.com>, Mitchel Cohen <mitchelcohen@mindspring.com>, “MUTANEX Command HAWAI’I” <mutanex@aloha.net>, miriamwhite420@hotmail.com, ibogaine@mindvox.com, Nick Sandberg <nick.sandberg@virgin.net>, George Clayton Johnson <hempjack@earthlink.net>, axiom@greatmystery.org, dancegroove@nyc.rr.com, “warcry@indymedia.org” <warcrycinema@yahoo.com>, “Jay Statzer” <jstatzer@qtm.net>, “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Pubdate: Mon, 06 Jan 2003
Source: Guardian, The (UK)
Copyright: 2003 Guardian Newspapers Limited
Contact: letters@guardian.co.uk
Website: http://www.guardian.co.uk/guardian/
Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/175
Author: Duncan Campbell, in Los Angeles
Cited: High Times http://www.hightimes.com/
Bookmarks: http://www.mapinc.org/spirit.htm (Spiritual or Sacramental)
http://www.mapinc.org/mmj.htm (Cannabis – Medicinal)

JESUS ‘HEALED USING CANNABIS’

Jesus was almost certainly a cannabis user and an early proponent of
the medicinal properties of the drug, according to a study of
scriptural texts published this month. The study suggests that Jesus
and his disciples used the drug to carry out miraculous healings.

The anointing oil used by Jesus and his disciples contained an
ingredient called kaneh-bosem which has since been identified as
cannabis extract, according to an article by Chris Bennett in the
drugs magazine, High Times, entitled Was Jesus a Stoner? The incense
used by Jesus in ceremonies also contained a cannabis extract,
suggests Mr Bennett, who quotes scholars to back his claims.

“There can be little doubt about a role for cannabis in Judaic
religion,” Carl Ruck, professor of classical mythology at Boston
University said.

URL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v03.n020.a08.html

——————————

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Sacrament Wars! (Episode 39)
Date: January 7, 2003 at 3:25:15 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: dansmith@clark.net, lensman@stardrive.org, hward@wineshopper.com, DDanforbes@aol.com, daniel@breakingopenthehead.com, Mark@k-dunn.freeserve.co.uk, IMDJam@cs.com, gbekkum@mediaone.net, Gary@osborn-day.freeserve.co.uk, gschwart@u.arizona.edu, e-merrill2@ti.com, “Bob Ezergailis” <morpheal@bserv.com>, “cynthia ford” <maruta@wco.com>, “G. G. Ford” <swimp@shaw.ca>, <brumac@compuserve.com>, <yokatta@oxy.edu>, <kklingon@cwcom.net>, <cyrano@aqua.ocn.ne.jp>, “Adrian” <afme@ihug.co.nz>, dewatson@sunflower.com, CloudRider@aol.com, JagdishM@aol.com, phylegyas@hotmail.com, schwann@webtrance.co.za, ibogalab@hotmail.com, zentarot@hotmail.com, Paul DeRienzo <pdr@echonyc.com>, Stews@radiks.net, foozleman@worldnet.att.net, bmasel@tds.net, heff01@email.msn.com, kingfelix@mediaone.net, luxefair@bellsouth.net, cardboard_dada@yahoo.com, prophets@maui.net, m.pilkington@virgin.net, PCLARK@JJHILL.ORG, delaneyw@shasta.com, Edward Jahn <ejahn@barnard.edu>, derlock@mailexcite.com, “Andre Welling” <andre.welling@db.com>, Mitchel Cohen <mitchelcohen@mindspring.com>, “MUTANEX Command HAWAI’I” <mutanex@aloha.net>, miriamwhite420@hotmail.com, ibogaine@mindvox.com, Nick Sandberg <nick.sandberg@virgin.net>, George Clayton Johnson <hempjack@earthlink.net>, axiom@greatmystery.org, dancegroove@nyc.rr.com, “warcry@indymedia.org” <warcrycinema@yahoo.com>, “Jay Statzer” <jstatzer@qtm.net>, philipkdick@yahoogroups.com, “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Pubdate: Mon, 06 Jan 2003
Source: Guardian, The (UK)
Copyright: 2003 Guardian Newspapers Limited
Contact: letters@guardian.co.uk
Website: http://www.guardian.co.uk/guardian/
Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/175
Author: Duncan Campbell, in Los Angeles
Cited: High Times http://www.hightimes.com/
Bookmarks: http://www.mapinc.org/spirit.htm (Spiritual or Sacramental)
http://www.mapinc.org/mmj.htm (Cannabis – Medicinal)

JESUS ‘HEALED USING CANNABIS’

Jesus was almost certainly a cannabis user and an early proponent of
the medicinal properties of the drug, according to a study of
scriptural texts published this month. The study suggests that Jesus
and his disciples used the drug to carry out miraculous healings.

The anointing oil used by Jesus and his disciples contained an
ingredient called kaneh-bosem which has since been identified as
cannabis extract, according to an article by Chris Bennett in the
drugs magazine, High Times, entitled Was Jesus a Stoner? The incense
used by Jesus in ceremonies also contained a cannabis extract,
suggests Mr Bennett, who quotes scholars to back his claims.

“There can be little doubt about a role for cannabis in Judaic
religion,” Carl Ruck, professor of classical mythology at Boston
University said.

URL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v03.n020.a08.html

——————————

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine article in Vancouver’s Georgia Straight, this is the ARTICLE
Date: January 7, 2003 at 2:01:20 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— Janet Nash <madcaphorse@yahoo.com> wrote:
How did I get on this list?

Obviously you need to be here, drugs will do that to
you.

I need to find
affordable ibogaine treatments for
my husband but all this chat is overloading my
mailbox!

Well this is the right place. Maybe you would like to
share your situation and who knows, maybe you will get
an answer.

Can I somehow get
monthly newsletters instead?

You could setup an ibogaine folder (if you can in your
mailer) and have the ibogaine mail go there or you
could unsubscribe (email
ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com) frimn this ibogaine
mailing list and download (see help by emailing
ibogaine-help@mindvox.com with a blank message) a
months of mail at a time in one file.

FYI, if you turn your headers into long format for
your email you will see email command addresses in the
mail header for this list.

Brett

mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
List-Unsubscribe:
<mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
List-Subscribe:
<mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com

— MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca> wrote:
This is the article from the current Vancouver
Georgia Straight, please
circulate it around:

http://www.straight.com/editorial/health.php

Ibogaine a One-Way Trip to Sobriety, Pot Head Says

By Gail Johnson
Mark “Atomos” Pilon Illustration

Marc Emery may not have made it to the mayor’s
chair,
but the head of the B.C. Marijuana Party has
plenty of
other ventures to keep him busy. Besides running a
seed-distribution business, the peace and pot
activist
has started a new project that he’s especially
passionate about, one he says can cure cocaine and
heroin addiction at a low price.

He’s the man behind the Iboga Therapy House, a
place
he has rented on the Sunshine Coast that overlooks
the
ocean and where drug addicts can go for ibogaine
treatment.

Ibogaine comes from Tabernanthe iboga, a flowering
African shrub that’s related to the coffee plant.
In
some parts of West Africa, it’s a hallucinogen
used in
male rites of passage. Iboga is said to induce
wild
visualizations, be nonaddictive, and have
anti-addictive qualities.

Advocates allege that one or two doses is enough
to
cure addiction, whether it’s to crack cocaine,
heroin,
alcohol, or nicotine. Unlike methadone, which is
itself addictive, ibogaine does not produce
painful
withdrawal symptoms.

Emery, who started treating addicts from the
Downtown
Eastside two months ago, covers the costs, which
amount to about $1,500 per person. He takes in up
to
four addicts per week and has administered oral
doses
of ibogaine himself to nearly a dozen people. It’s
the
first such program in North America.

“This could be a very effective way of treating
people
at a very low cost,” he told the Straight on the
line
from the Sunshine Coast. “People who have been
through
opiate withdrawal are amazed. They don’t have a
dripping nose, there’s no nausea..This has been a
revelatory experience. I’m hoping the government
will
pick it up.”

Though not approved by Health Canada, ibogaine is
not
a prohibited product under the Controlled Drugs
and
Substances Act, Emery noted. The substance is
illegal
in the United States, but it’s available through
an
international black market, and there are private
clinics in the Caribbean and Panama City. “It’s an
underground phenomenon all over the world,” said
Emery, who orders ibogaine from Ontario, Slovenia,
and
Holland.

One of the alleged benefits of ibogaine is that it
doesn’t cause the horrible flulike side effects
that
people withdrawing from heroin or cocaine
typically
endure, such as diarrhea, cramps, anxiety, and
muscle
twitches. However, some preclinical studies have
indicated that the substance could cause lasting
damage to the cerebellum, leading to loss of motor
coordination.

The use of ibogaine to treat addiction got its
first
push from Howard Lotsof, an American who patented
the
therapy. He’s credited with recording initial
observations of the effects of ibogaine on heroin
addicts who took the substance to get high in the
mid-1960s. (Lotsof was one of them.)

Lotsof tried to go beyond anecdotal evidence by
conducting preclinical research. He approached
pharmaceutical companies to back his efforts, but
none
responded-likely because of the lack of potential
profit, since the medicine is usually taken only
once.
He pushed for the Food and Drug Administration’s
approval of clinical trials, but that plan fell
apart
in 1993, when a 24-year-old heroin user died about
20
hours after taking ibogaine. (Two other addicts
have
also died following ibogaine treatment.) The
therapy
has its critics, like American drug researcher
Peter
Hoyle, who, according to a recent High Times
article,
doesn’t think there’s enough evidence to warrant
human
trials-especially since the mechanism of
ibogaine’s
action isn’t understood.

Without any official stamp of approval, Lotsof
continues research and treatment (mainly in
Holland).
He recently cowrote a revised Manual for Ibogaine
Therapy: Screening, Safety, Monitoring &
Aftercare,
which cautions that “treatment providers and
patients
are solely responsible for their actions.”

“The extremely costly regulatory approval process
and
the reluctance by major pharmaceutical firms to
pursue
regulatory approval in the West has led to the
formation of non-medical ibogaine treatment,” the
manual says. “This document is intended
principally
for lay-healers who have little or no medical
experience, but who are nevertheless concerned
with
patient safety and the outcome of Ibogaine
treatments.”

Lotsof urges caregivers to insist that people have
a
complete physical, including an electrocardiogram,
before treatment. Emery has studied that document
as
well as others on the Ibogaine Dossier Web site
(www.ibogaine.org/), which has opinions and
information related to the treatment.

Emery said he-or another of the “facilitators” at
the
Iboga Therapy House who are trained in first
aid-observes people for about 24 hours after the
administration of ibogaine and monitors their
blood
pressure and pulse regularly. Emery added that the
hospital is a 10-minute drive away and that all
candidates have to sign a medical-release form.

Anyone is welcome, Emery said, as long as they
stop
taking drugs for 24 hours before treatment. He
said he
recommends two doses, about a week apart, to
prevent a
relapse. “Typically the first dose cancels the
physical addiction,” Emery said, “and the second
targets the psychological underpinnings of
addiction.”

Emery, who’s never taken ibogaine himself, said
the
substance can cause intense visualizations lasting
eight to 18 hours. He also said that because of
the
lack of withdrawal symptoms, ibogaine can help
addicts
address other issues. “Being an addict can be a
great
excuse in a financial or emotional crisis,” he
noted.
“This gives them the strength and courage to face
their problems without giving in to their
weaknesses.
They have an opportunity to reinvent themselves,
so
they need to stay away from triggers or
temptation.”

The Iboga Therapy House has fitness equipment,
instruments, games like crib and chess, and a
meditation room-anything that “gives people
pleasure
that doesn’t involve drugs”, Emery said-but no TV.
Emery, who doesn’t accept money from addicts
unless
they want to donate after they’ve been clean for
at
least three months, said he’d like to see the
treatment made available to all Vancouver addicts,
who
can contact him via the Vancouver Area Network of
Drug
Users (604-683-8595).

He added that he hasn’t encountered any opposition
to
the ibogaine project yet. “I’ve never run into
critics,” he said, “because there’s nothing to
criticize.”

__________________________________________________
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From: “Randy Hencken” <randyhencken@hotmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Enquirer or Star?
Date: January 7, 2003 at 11:21:19 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yesterday someone told me that they saw an article in either the National Enquirer or the Star about Nick Nolte and Ibogaine.  Suppossedly it was titled “the treatment of the stars” and was published around December 1othish.  Did anybody here see such an article?  I tried a brief google search with no luck.

Thanks,
Randy

_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*  http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: What I meant
Date: January 7, 2003 at 10:32:59 AM EST
To: “Dana Beal” <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Cc: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hoyle isn’t and never was a writer for HT. Apparently he was the opposing view in a positive article about ibogaine, but even that I’m not entirely sure about. All I know is that he didn’t write an article for HT, and that HT hasn’t ever published an article that was negative about ibogaine. Don’t know when or what issue this citation is coming from, nor have I actually seen the Straight article that cites Hoyle in HT yet either.
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Dana Beal
To: preston peet
Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 7:24 PM
Subject: What I meant

I don’t know about this, don’t know who Hoyle is, haven’t seen what you’re talking about, I’m innocent…well, ignorant of this anyway. What issue is it in?

He’s the only critic of Ibogaine the Georgia Straight could find, apparently. And the reason for that was he was already on record in High Times. But I said I didn’t know what issue. The Georgia Straight merely cited it, they didn’t give a complete citation.

I thought maybe you could find out more easily than the rest of us. The importance lies in the rest of what this guy is saying, which seems to be the new line of the Ibogaine skeptics: “…American drug researcher Peter
Hoyle, …according to a recent High Times article, doesn’t think there’s enough evidence to warrant human
trials–especially since the mechanism of ibogaine’s action isn’t understood.”

[Which isn’t true, according to JAMA. More like the skeptics aren’t bothering to find out HOW it works since they’re NOT interested, period–because they don’t believe it works and don’t want to contemplate that they might be wrong. But that was kind of what Jonathon Ott was saying also. The new mantra, replacing Ann Ardolino and “Ibogaine doesn’t work!”]

I dropped to many important words in my haste. Sorry.

Dana/cnw

From: “Joshua Tinnin” <krinklyfig@myrealbox.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine question seattle
Date: January 7, 2003 at 5:03:13 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Wait … Patrick, I think I might have misunderstood you. When you talked
about Godhead, did you mean in terms of how it feels to come to terms with
it through psychedelics, or the use of entheogens in general, or did you
mean the feeling of being addicted to something? You said, “Do you get that
thing …” Sorry, when did you mean, or under what circumstances?

– jt

—– Original Message —–
From: “Joshua Tinnin” <krinklyfig@myrealbox.com>

—– Original Message —–
From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>

On [Fri, Jan 03, 2003 at 08:20:21PM -0800], [Joshua Tinnin] wrote:

| As I said, I am going to be following up with other therapy. But would
| prefer to leave it at that for the moment. I am not a brilliant
communicator
| as Patrick is,

Sure you are.  You communicate very well.  If you’re unsure how to
express
it, then just write down anchors to pieces of the experience, so you can
connect yourself back to it.  While extremely altered that works for me,
and sort of de-loops entire pieces of time, which would otherwise sink
back into being unformed.

Well, thank you, but I assure you I wasn’t fishing. I guess it’s just that
I
like the way you communicate, which has about a billion tangents, but you
still manage to stay succinct and nail it. It’s totally entertaining to
read, and it’s from an educated perspective, and then some. But then I
pick
apart my own writing too much, and it never really satisfies me … but
it’s
fun that way, like an ongoing craft. It’s just the last thing I’d want is
for it to be like another damn addict’s war story, blah blah blah. Nothing
is quite as tedious for the vast majority of people, including many of
those
at the meetings, as hearing someone talk about how crappy their life was
before [insert therapy here]. But, damn, I could fill up a book with that
crap. I wanna find out how and why it worked, and I have no fucking clue.
And, of course, there are some other things to work through in the
immediate
future. A lot of this will make more sense when I can explain it better.
Probably in the coming few months, but there’s something very important I
have to do first.

| and haven’t yet figured it all out for myself, either. But
| this is something that I feel has to be shared at some point, because,
if it
| has the possibility of helping someone, then it will have been worth
it.
I
| just don’t want people dosing themselves thinking that’s what I told
them to
| do, and then getting pissed because it didn’t work for them, or
because,
| forbid, they got screwed up by the experience. Just gotta tread
carefully
| and take this a bit at a time, and later maybe can speak to it when I
| understand it better, when it would be less likely to be misunderstood

Do you get that thing with the entire cheerleading team of a high
school,
and an IV in each arm, one with cocaine, the other with a
morphine/heroin
mixture (for that wunnerful pins and needles morphine rush, and heroin
downhead)…?  That’s part of the whole entire Valhalla I am Coming
cycle;
Joseph Campbell, Ken Wilber, and Alan Watts all mention it; not using
those exact words, but it’s what they meant to say.

Garab Dorje also touches upon it in the supressed masterpiece, “Godhead
is
one killer fucking rush mahn!  Woo Hoo!”

Yes it is. But that’s not quite it. I know exactly what you’re talking
about, as I’ve been there, too. It was more of a rebirth, but not quite
the
reset switch people mention with ibogaine. It was the whole palette, the
whole tapestry. It just cut my addiction completely off, like it’s not
even
there anymore. But, it’s not quite like the reset switch. But it is like
you
say, sort of, as it feels as if I’ve touched something divine, and I can’t
just hold on to it and put it in a box. But there is a little work left
before I just let it spill out everywhere.

Somehow, I know when I reach that point, helping other people, even if
it’s
just by advocacy, will be a major part of my life. But I am not sure I’ll
want to tell addicts to rush out and drop some L. A lot of people would
probably just have a shitty trip … but, thing is, that’s actually where
it
happens. It just has to reach a certain point.

Anyway, doing fucking fantastic, and I mean that, for the first time in
well
over a decade, but still trying to put the pieces together. It’s funny,
and
just so damn sad, you know, the two therapeutic substances which made the
biggest difference in my life – marijuana for chemo several years ago, and
for other psychological reasons now; LSD for purging an addiction – are
illegal in the US. So is ibo, and the US is in a tiny, tiny minority in
criminalizing that. This *has* to change. It’s insane that such tools
could
land someone in jail, when it could save their life.

– jt

From: “Joshua Tinnin” <krinklyfig@myrealbox.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine article in Vancouver’s Georgia Straight, this is the ARTICLE
Date: January 6, 2003 at 8:55:16 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This is a discussion list – that’s what happens here, we discuss things
related (sometimes remotely) to ibogaine. Everyone who is subscribed gets
all the posts sent to the list, as a way to facilitate group conversation.
There are a lot of people here who can help, but all treatments will be
outside the US. You might want to try the digest, which is a daily
compilation of all the emails sent to the list that day. But this isn’t a
newsletter, nor is it a publishing house. It’s a discussion group. I don’t
know how you got on it. You must have subscribed somehow, unless “they” did
it … you know, “them.”

If you want to completely unsubscribe, send an email to
ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com – to subscribe to the digest, send an email
to ibogaine-digest-subscribe@mindvox.com – to subscribe to the regular list
(this one), send an email to ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com

– jt

—– Original Message —–
From: “Janet Nash” <madcaphorse@yahoo.com>

How did I get on this list? I need to find affordable ibogaine treatments
for
my husband but all this chat is overloading my mailbox! Can I somehow get
monthly newsletters instead?

HI I’m interested in finding affordable ibogaine treatment for my husband
but
all this email chat is clogging up my mail box! Please don’t mail me so
much….only weekly or monthly newsletters please. Thanks, J Nash

From: Janet Nash <madcaphorse@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine article in Vancouver’s Georgia Straight, this is the ARTICLE
Date: January 6, 2003 at 6:32:59 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

How did I get on this list? I need to find affordable ibogaine treatments for
my husband but all this chat is overloading my mailbox! Can I somehow get
monthly newsletters instead?

— MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca> wrote:
This is the article from the current Vancouver Georgia Straight, please
circulate it around:

http://www.straight.com/editorial/health.php

Ibogaine a One-Way Trip to Sobriety, Pot Head Says

By Gail Johnson
Mark “Atomos” Pilon Illustration

Marc Emery may not have made it to the mayor’s chair,
but the head of the B.C. Marijuana Party has plenty of
other ventures to keep him busy. Besides running a
seed-distribution business, the peace and pot activist
has started a new project that he’s especially
passionate about, one he says can cure cocaine and
heroin addiction at a low price.

He’s the man behind the Iboga Therapy House, a place
he has rented on the Sunshine Coast that overlooks the
ocean and where drug addicts can go for ibogaine
treatment.

Ibogaine comes from Tabernanthe iboga, a flowering
African shrub that’s related to the coffee plant. In
some parts of West Africa, it’s a hallucinogen used in
male rites of passage. Iboga is said to induce wild
visualizations, be nonaddictive, and have
anti-addictive qualities.

Advocates allege that one or two doses is enough to
cure addiction, whether it’s to crack cocaine, heroin,
alcohol, or nicotine. Unlike methadone, which is
itself addictive, ibogaine does not produce painful
withdrawal symptoms.

Emery, who started treating addicts from the Downtown
Eastside two months ago, covers the costs, which
amount to about $1,500 per person. He takes in up to
four addicts per week and has administered oral doses
of ibogaine himself to nearly a dozen people. It’s the
first such program in North America.

“This could be a very effective way of treating people
at a very low cost,” he told the Straight on the line
from the Sunshine Coast. “People who have been through
opiate withdrawal are amazed. They don’t have a
dripping nose, there’s no nausea..This has been a
revelatory experience. I’m hoping the government will
pick it up.”

Though not approved by Health Canada, ibogaine is not
a prohibited product under the Controlled Drugs and
Substances Act, Emery noted. The substance is illegal
in the United States, but it’s available through an
international black market, and there are private
clinics in the Caribbean and Panama City. “It’s an
underground phenomenon all over the world,” said
Emery, who orders ibogaine from Ontario, Slovenia, and
Holland.

One of the alleged benefits of ibogaine is that it
doesn’t cause the horrible flulike side effects that
people withdrawing from heroin or cocaine typically
endure, such as diarrhea, cramps, anxiety, and muscle
twitches. However, some preclinical studies have
indicated that the substance could cause lasting
damage to the cerebellum, leading to loss of motor
coordination.

The use of ibogaine to treat addiction got its first
push from Howard Lotsof, an American who patented the
therapy. He’s credited with recording initial
observations of the effects of ibogaine on heroin
addicts who took the substance to get high in the
mid-1960s. (Lotsof was one of them.)

Lotsof tried to go beyond anecdotal evidence by
conducting preclinical research. He approached
pharmaceutical companies to back his efforts, but none
responded-likely because of the lack of potential
profit, since the medicine is usually taken only once.
He pushed for the Food and Drug Administration’s
approval of clinical trials, but that plan fell apart
in 1993, when a 24-year-old heroin user died about 20
hours after taking ibogaine. (Two other addicts have
also died following ibogaine treatment.) The therapy
has its critics, like American drug researcher Peter
Hoyle, who, according to a recent High Times article,
doesn’t think there’s enough evidence to warrant human
trials-especially since the mechanism of ibogaine’s
action isn’t understood.

Without any official stamp of approval, Lotsof
continues research and treatment (mainly in Holland).
He recently cowrote a revised Manual for Ibogaine
Therapy: Screening, Safety, Monitoring & Aftercare,
which cautions that “treatment providers and patients
are solely responsible for their actions.”

“The extremely costly regulatory approval process and
the reluctance by major pharmaceutical firms to pursue
regulatory approval in the West has led to the
formation of non-medical ibogaine treatment,” the
manual says. “This document is intended principally
for lay-healers who have little or no medical
experience, but who are nevertheless concerned with
patient safety and the outcome of Ibogaine
treatments.”

Lotsof urges caregivers to insist that people have a
complete physical, including an electrocardiogram,
before treatment. Emery has studied that document as
well as others on the Ibogaine Dossier Web site
(www.ibogaine.org/), which has opinions and
information related to the treatment.

Emery said he-or another of the “facilitators” at the
Iboga Therapy House who are trained in first
aid-observes people for about 24 hours after the
administration of ibogaine and monitors their blood
pressure and pulse regularly. Emery added that the
hospital is a 10-minute drive away and that all
candidates have to sign a medical-release form.

Anyone is welcome, Emery said, as long as they stop
taking drugs for 24 hours before treatment. He said he
recommends two doses, about a week apart, to prevent a
relapse. “Typically the first dose cancels the
physical addiction,” Emery said, “and the second
targets the psychological underpinnings of addiction.”

Emery, who’s never taken ibogaine himself, said the
substance can cause intense visualizations lasting
eight to 18 hours. He also said that because of the
lack of withdrawal symptoms, ibogaine can help addicts
address other issues. “Being an addict can be a great
excuse in a financial or emotional crisis,” he noted.
“This gives them the strength and courage to face
their problems without giving in to their weaknesses.
They have an opportunity to reinvent themselves, so
they need to stay away from triggers or temptation.”

The Iboga Therapy House has fitness equipment,
instruments, games like crib and chess, and a
meditation room-anything that “gives people pleasure
that doesn’t involve drugs”, Emery said-but no TV.
Emery, who doesn’t accept money from addicts unless
they want to donate after they’ve been clean for at
least three months, said he’d like to see the
treatment made available to all Vancouver addicts, who
can contact him via the Vancouver Area Network of Drug
Users (604-683-8595).

He added that he hasn’t encountered any opposition to
the ibogaine project yet. “I’ve never run into
critics,” he said, “because there’s nothing to
criticize.”

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
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From: Janet Nash <madcaphorse@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] DEA Discourages Addicts From Seeking Treatment While Collecting Evidence Against Them
Date: January 6, 2003 at 6:30:11 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

HI I’m interested in finding affordable ibogaine treatment for my husband but
all this email chat is clogging up my mail box! Please don’t mail me so
much….only weekly or monthly newsletters please. Thanks, J Nash

— preston peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:

—– Original Message —–
From: Tom Angell
To: drugwar@mindvox.com ; maptalk@mapinc.org
Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 3:19 PM
Subject: [drugwar] DEA Discourages Addicts From Seeking Treatment While
Collecting Evidence Against Them

Pubdate: Fri, 03 Jan 2003
Source: Boston Globe (MA)
Copyright: 2003 Globe Newspaper Company
Contact: letter@globe.com
Website: http://www.boston.com/globe/
Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/52
Author: Thanassis Cambanis, Globe Staff

DRUG WAR DILEMMA

US Criticized For Discouraging Addicts From Seeking Treatment While
Collecting Evidence Against Them

Carol Bradley always talked about her desire to quit drugs, even when she
was dealing crack to an undercover federal agent and her other customers
would break into her Plymouth apartment to smoke on her couch.

Ultimately, Bradley says, she did kick her drug habit at a halfway house in
Western Massachusetts while federal prosecutors prepared a drug trafficking
indictment against her. But wiretap transcripts showed that the Drug
Enforcement Administration task force agent who made six undercover buys
from Bradley actively discouraged her from going to treatment programs,
saying they “never work.”

Her unusual case highlights the debate over when treatment should enter law
enforcement’s war on drugs. The federal agents and prosecutors who sought a
four-to five-year prison term for Bradley say they pursue serious dealers
who destroy the communities in which they peddle narcotics; in prison, they
argue, dealers have all the time they need to seek treatment.

However, defense lawyers and drug law critics believe Bradley’s case points
to a system that is sometimes too rigid and harsh. They believe that agents
and prosecutors should encourage addicts to seek treatment, rather than
simply build the strongest possible case against them.

“It’s unconscionable to have government agents discouraging addicts from
getting help so they can continue to amass evidence against these people,”
said federal defender Tamar R. Birckhead, who represented Bradley and cited
the case as exposing an Achilles’ heel in the federal war on drugs.

But Gerard T. Leone, the first assistant US attorney for Massachusetts, said
that federal sentencing guidelines take into account whether a drug offender
is trying to break free of an addiction. It’s not the role of the drug agent
or prosecutor to serve as a conduit for treatment, Leone said.

“If what compels someone to sell drugs is a habit and not desire for profit,
should we sympathize with them and give them a break?” Leone said. “If
there’s a kid who’s getting crack, I don’t care whether the person who’s
selling it to them has a problem.”

By the time Bradley had been indicted on drug trafficking charges two years
ago, she had been living sober for nearly a year at Beacon House for Women
in Greenfield. At her sentencing in July, Senior US Judge Edward F.
Harrington – over the objections of prosecutors – tossed aside sentencing
guidelines that would have required him to send Bradley to jail for four to
five years, instead of giving her probation.

The sentence was officially based on Bradley’s “exceptional rehabilitation,”
but Bradley’s lawyer also emphasized the undercover agent’s disparaging
comments about treatment.

“This was a textbook example of someone committing a crime to support her
habit and who wanted with every ounce of her being to kick that habit,”
Birckhead said.

Meanwhile, Bradley, 37, says she has turned with zeal toward recovery; she
now does landscaping and maintenance for Beacon House, where she has lived
for the better part of three years.

She is more concerned about her upcoming move next week to a sober house in
nearby Turners Falls than about her federal case. Since age 14, Bradley
said, she has struggled with addiction to alcohol, heroin, and cocaine. Even
when faced with the prospect of jail this year, Bradley refused to work
undercover for federal agents to ensnare her former suppliers, afraid she
would start taking drugs again if she returned to her old haunts.

Bradley blames herself for the drugs she sold. “I know I was kind of
manipulated into selling because of my problem, but I did it and I was
guilty,” she said. “Somebody could have bought some drugs from me and died.”

Still, it vexes her that the undercover agent she knew by the code name
“Whitey” – and, as she sees it, a law enforcement culture that treats all
drug offenders the same – felt no responsibility to help her.

“Even in the condition I was in, they knew I was reaching for help. I don’t
know what the rules are, but they didn’t need to say that rehab doesn’t
work,” Bradley said recently.

A state trooper working undercover for the DEA bought a total of 9.11 grams
of crack from Bradley on six occasions between September 1999 and January
2000. He often met Bradley at her Court Street apartment in Plymouth, where
she watched football games with customers and tried to keep the beige
carpets vacuumed.

“People always said it was the cleanest crack house in town,” Bradley said.

In one recorded conversation, Bradley told the agent she had just finished
25 days of rehab. Rehabitation programs “never work, don’t waste your time,”
the agent replied.

In a later conversation, Bradley told the agent she’d been through seven
drug detoxification programs.

“The important thing to keep in mind is that the agent is playing a role,”
DEA spokesman Anthony Pettigrew said. “He’s talking in a jargon that the
target understands.”

At one point, the undercover agent offers to drive Bradley to a detox
program. The agent’s job, Pettigrew said, was to make drug purchases from
Bradley, not to steer her toward a drug treatment program. Still, he added,
the agent did not “in total” discourage her from seeking treatment.

By the time the war on drugs makes it to the federal court system, cases are
usually cut-and-dried. Deals are usually caught on tape, and sentences are
determined by the quantity and kind of drug. Addicts charged with
trafficking usually make a first attempt to stop using drugs only after
they’ve been accused of a crime.

That was not the case with Bradley. On Jan. 26, 2000, Bradley made her last
crack sale – to the undercover agent. The next day she moved across the
state to Greenfield and checked into Beacon House. That’s where federal
agents found her in September 2000, when they unsealed a grand jury
indictment against her.

At an unusual sentencing hearing on July 24, more than a dozen family
members and people who knew Bradley from Beacon House packed the courtroom.
They had already flooded Harrington with letters about Bradley’s impact on
their lives and their own attempts to kick drinking problems and drug
habits. Prosecutors fought for Bradley to serve at least four years and
three months in prison.

“The record shows that she was planning to combat her addiction at the same
time she was peddling narcotics,” Assistant US Attorney Rachel E. Hershfang
argued. “This is not a woman who, desperate for the money to support her
addiction, made an occasional drug sale.”

Harrington, however, found that Bradley had exhibited “extraordinary
rehabilitation,” and prosecutors chose not to appeal his decision.

Although she doesn’t expect federal agents to spend all their time pushing
drug addicts toward recovery programs, Bradley said she wishes they would
give it more thought.

Dealers in Bradley’s situation might deserve compassion, Leone said, but
they also need to be taken off the streets.

“In her case, the Plymouth Police Department identified drug-related
activity that was a destructive and destabilizing influence on public
housing projects,” Leone said. “Carol Bradley was part of a conspiracy that
we saw as ruining quality of life in a community.”

Still, defense lawyer Martin G. Weinberg said Bradley’s case reflected a
broader problem with federal law enforcement’s approach to drug crime.

“The DEA’s job is to apprehend offenders, not to create seductive
opportunities for undisciplined people to commit crimes they would not
otherwise have committed,” he said.

And, Weinberg argued, strict federal sentencing guidelines “extinguish the
difference between the violent offender who has never done anything positive
for society and a hard-working, nonviolent, essentially decent person who
has committed a crime for which he has accepted responsibility.”

Bradley’s new room in Turners Falls is sparsely decorated; her friends at
Beacon House have given her a small stone engraved with one word –
“Remember” – and she has five CDs to play on her portable stereo. As she
prepares to start living independently again, Bradley said she sees hope in
her story and in a system that defied her expectations to provide another
chance.

Every night, she calls the pretrial services office in Springfield to see if
she’s scheduled for a drug test. She has regular meetings with her parole
officer. If she relapses, she knows she could end up in a federal prison.

“It could happen to anyone,” Bradley said of her struggle with drugs. “I
wanted a better life, and I’ve found one.”

__________________________________________________
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From: “Joshua Tinnin” <krinklyfig@myrealbox.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine question seattle
Date: January 6, 2003 at 5:49:50 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>

On [Fri, Jan 03, 2003 at 08:20:21PM -0800], [Joshua Tinnin] wrote:

| As I said, I am going to be following up with other therapy. But would
| prefer to leave it at that for the moment. I am not a brilliant
communicator
| as Patrick is,

Sure you are.  You communicate very well.  If you’re unsure how to express
it, then just write down anchors to pieces of the experience, so you can
connect yourself back to it.  While extremely altered that works for me,
and sort of de-loops entire pieces of time, which would otherwise sink
back into being unformed.

Well, thank you, but I assure you I wasn’t fishing. I guess it’s just that I
like the way you communicate, which has about a billion tangents, but you
still manage to stay succinct and nail it. It’s totally entertaining to
read, and it’s from an educated perspective, and then some. But then I pick
apart my own writing too much, and it never really satisfies me … but it’s
fun that way, like an ongoing craft. It’s just the last thing I’d want is
for it to be like another damn addict’s war story, blah blah blah. Nothing
is quite as tedious for the vast majority of people, including many of those
at the meetings, as hearing someone talk about how crappy their life was
before [insert therapy here]. But, damn, I could fill up a book with that
crap. I wanna find out how and why it worked, and I have no fucking clue.
And, of course, there are some other things to work through in the immediate
future. A lot of this will make more sense when I can explain it better.
Probably in the coming few months, but there’s something very important I
have to do first.

| and haven’t yet figured it all out for myself, either. But
| this is something that I feel has to be shared at some point, because,
if it
| has the possibility of helping someone, then it will have been worth it.
I
| just don’t want people dosing themselves thinking that’s what I told
them to
| do, and then getting pissed because it didn’t work for them, or because,
| forbid, they got screwed up by the experience. Just gotta tread
carefully
| and take this a bit at a time, and later maybe can speak to it when I
| understand it better, when it would be less likely to be misunderstood

Do you get that thing with the entire cheerleading team of a high school,
and an IV in each arm, one with cocaine, the other with a morphine/heroin
mixture (for that wunnerful pins and needles morphine rush, and heroin
downhead)…?  That’s part of the whole entire Valhalla I am Coming cycle;
Joseph Campbell, Ken Wilber, and Alan Watts all mention it; not using
those exact words, but it’s what they meant to say.

Garab Dorje also touches upon it in the supressed masterpiece, “Godhead is
one killer fucking rush mahn!  Woo Hoo!”

Yes it is. But that’s not quite it. I know exactly what you’re talking
about, as I’ve been there, too. It was more of a rebirth, but not quite the
reset switch people mention with ibogaine. It was the whole palette, the
whole tapestry. It just cut my addiction completely off, like it’s not even
there anymore. But, it’s not quite like the reset switch. But it is like you
say, sort of, as it feels as if I’ve touched something divine, and I can’t
just hold on to it and put it in a box. But there is a little work left
before I just let it spill out everywhere.

Somehow, I know when I reach that point, helping other people, even if it’s
just by advocacy, will be a major part of my life. But I am not sure I’ll
want to tell addicts to rush out and drop some L. A lot of people would
probably just have a shitty trip … but, thing is, that’s actually where it
happens. It just has to reach a certain point.

Anyway, doing fucking fantastic, and I mean that, for the first time in well
over a decade, but still trying to put the pieces together. It’s funny, and
just so damn sad, you know, the two therapeutic substances which made the
biggest difference in my life – marijuana for chemo several years ago, and
for other psychological reasons now; LSD for purging an addiction – are
illegal in the US. So is ibo, and the US is in a tiny, tiny minority in
criminalizing that. This *has* to change. It’s insane that such tools could
land someone in jail, when it could save their life.

– jt

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Georgia Straight not in Georgia USA
Date: January 6, 2003 at 9:32:17 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Oh heck, never mind.

http://www.straight.com/editorial/health.php
Ibogaine a One-Way Trip to Sobriety, Pot Head Says

Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: preston peet
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 3:27 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Georgia Straight not in Georgia USA

Thanks Marc.
Could you or anyone else please post a link, or the article itself?
Sorry if it has already come through here and I missed it.
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: MARC
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 3:08 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] Georgia Straight not in Georgia USA

The Georgia Straight is a weekly magazine, the title of which is a play on the location of Vancouver,  located in the Strait of Georgia (the water body of the Pacific Ocean between the mainland of British Columbia and Vancouver Island.)

Hence the Georgia Straight (Straight truth). Its very widely read, is an influential trendy magazine to be reviewed in, circulation over 100,000. It is the health editor’s piece for the current issue.

Marc Emery
Iboga Therapy House
—– Original Message —–
From: preston peet
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2003 9:26 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine question seattle

>He’s the only critic of Ibogaine the Georgia Straight could find, apparently. And the reason for that was he was already on record in High Times. But I said I didn’t know what issue. The Georgia Straight merely cited it, they didn’t a complete citation.
I thought maybe you could find out more easily than the rest of us.<

Oooops, didn’t see the “don’t know what issue” comment Dana, so sorry.
I’ll ask around and see what this is all about. I haven’t heard anything about it until now.
Georgia STRAIGHT? The “Treatment” people? Why in the heck are they quoting HT if so?
Weird.
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Dana Beal
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2003 5:10 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine question seattle

>Preston, who is this Peter Hoyle guy, and why do Latimer and Hager have him trashing Ibogaine in the pages of HIGH TIMES? I must confess I missed it, but I would have thought you would have posted any mention of ibo in the magazine to the list.<

I don’t know about this, don’t know who Hoyle is, haven’t seen what you’re talking about, I’m innocent…well, ignorant of this anyway. What issue is it in?

He’s the only critic of Ibogaine the Georgia Straight could find, apparently. And the reason for that was he was already on record in High Times. But I said I didn’t know what issue. The Georgia Straight merely cited it, they didn’t a complete citation.

I thought maybe you could find out more easily than the rest of us. The importance lies in the rest of what this guy is saying, which seems to be the new line of the Ibogaine skeptics: “…American drug researcher Peter
Hoyle, …according to a recent High Times article, doesn’t think there’s enough evidence to warrant human
trials–especially since the mechanism of ibogaine’s action isn’t understood.”

[Which isn’t true, according to JAMA. More like they’re not bothering to find out HOW it works since they’re interested, period–because they don’t believe it works and don’t want to contemplate that they might be wrong. But that was kind of what Jonathon Ott was saying also. The new mantra, replacing Ann Ardolino and “Ibogain doesn’t work!”]

>What do you think of Marc Emery’s new, Iboga House model of the movement? Pretty neat, huh?<

It’s more than pretty neat, it’s really, really, very neat. ;p-))))

>Imagine the High Times trustees subsidizing an Ibogaine clinic.<

Ok, I’m imagining it.

>No, kappa is one first effects identified with ibogaine. What kappa does is, acutely, to stop overdose, but then over time, to upregulate the effect of mu, which overwise  would engender tolerance.<

Huh? Are you still talking about Salvia being an agonist of opiates? What’s kappa? What’s mu? And again I ask, will using Salvia kick in dope withdrawals if someone is using dope? Regardless of whether they’ve used ibogaine or not?
Peace,
Preston

That was what I started out talking about. kappa and mu are both opiate receptor types. They just do different things, is all. Mu is what you get from heroin. Kappa–dynophin.

I thought everyone knew their opiate receptor subtypes.

Dana/cnw

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Georgia Straight not in Georgia USA
Date: January 6, 2003 at 3:27:34 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks Marc.
Could you or anyone else please post a link, or the article itself?
Sorry if it has already come through here and I missed it.
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: MARC
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 3:08 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] Georgia Straight not in Georgia USA

The Georgia Straight is a weekly magazine, the title of which is a play on the location of Vancouver,  located in the Strait of Georgia (the water body of the Pacific Ocean between the mainland of British Columbia and Vancouver Island.)

Hence the Georgia Straight (Straight truth). Its very widely read, is an influential trendy magazine to be reviewed in, circulation over 100,000. It is the health editor’s piece for the current issue.

Marc Emery
Iboga Therapy House
—– Original Message —–
From: preston peet
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2003 9:26 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine question seattle

>He’s the only critic of Ibogaine the Georgia Straight could find, apparently. And the reason for that was he was already on record in High Times. But I said I didn’t know what issue. The Georgia Straight merely cited it, they didn’t a complete citation.
I thought maybe you could find out more easily than the rest of us.<

Oooops, didn’t see the “don’t know what issue” comment Dana, so sorry.
I’ll ask around and see what this is all about. I haven’t heard anything about it until now.
Georgia STRAIGHT? The “Treatment” people? Why in the heck are they quoting HT if so?
Weird.
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Dana Beal
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2003 5:10 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine question seattle

>Preston, who is this Peter Hoyle guy, and why do Latimer and Hager have him trashing Ibogaine in the pages of HIGH TIMES? I must confess I missed it, but I would have thought you would have posted any mention of ibo in the magazine to the list.<

I don’t know about this, don’t know who Hoyle is, haven’t seen what you’re talking about, I’m innocent…well, ignorant of this anyway. What issue is it in?

He’s the only critic of Ibogaine the Georgia Straight could find, apparently. And the reason for that was he was already on record in High Times. But I said I didn’t know what issue. The Georgia Straight merely cited it, they didn’t a complete citation.

I thought maybe you could find out more easily than the rest of us. The importance lies in the rest of what this guy is saying, which seems to be the new line of the Ibogaine skeptics: “…American drug researcher Peter
Hoyle, …according to a recent High Times article, doesn’t think there’s enough evidence to warrant human
trials–especially since the mechanism of ibogaine’s action isn’t understood.”

[Which isn’t true, according to JAMA. More like they’re not bothering to find out HOW it works since they’re interested, period–because they don’t believe it works and don’t want to contemplate that they might be wrong. But that was kind of what Jonathon Ott was saying also. The new mantra, replacing Ann Ardolino and “Ibogain doesn’t work!”]

>What do you think of Marc Emery’s new, Iboga House model of the movement? Pretty neat, huh?<

It’s more than pretty neat, it’s really, really, very neat. ;p-))))

>Imagine the High Times trustees subsidizing an Ibogaine clinic.<

Ok, I’m imagining it.

>No, kappa is one first effects identified with ibogaine. What kappa does is, acutely, to stop overdose, but then over time, to upregulate the effect of mu, which overwise  would engender tolerance.<

Huh? Are you still talking about Salvia being an agonist of opiates? What’s kappa? What’s mu? And again I ask, will using Salvia kick in dope withdrawals if someone is using dope? Regardless of whether they’ve used ibogaine or not?
Peace,
Preston

That was what I started out talking about. kappa and mu are both opiate receptor types. They just do different things, is all. Mu is what you get from heroin. Kappa–dynophin.

I thought everyone knew their opiate receptor subtypes.

Dana/cnw

From: MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca>
Subject: [ibogaine] Georgia Straight not in Georgia USA
Date: January 6, 2003 at 3:08:17 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The Georgia Straight is a weekly magazine, the title of which is a play on the location of Vancouver,  located in the Strait of Georgia (the water body of the Pacific Ocean between the mainland of British Columbia and Vancouver Island.)

Hence the Georgia Straight (Straight truth). Its very widely read, is an influential trendy magazine to be reviewed in, circulation over 100,000. It is the health editor’s piece for the current issue.

Marc Emery
Iboga Therapy House
—– Original Message —–
From: preston peet
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2003 9:26 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine question seattle

>He’s the only critic of Ibogaine the Georgia Straight could find, apparently. And the reason for that was he was already on record in High Times. But I said I didn’t know what issue. The Georgia Straight merely cited it, they didn’t a complete citation.
I thought maybe you could find out more easily than the rest of us.<

Oooops, didn’t see the “don’t know what issue” comment Dana, so sorry.
I’ll ask around and see what this is all about. I haven’t heard anything about it until now.
Georgia STRAIGHT? The “Treatment” people? Why in the heck are they quoting HT if so?
Weird.
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Dana Beal
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2003 5:10 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine question seattle

>Preston, who is this Peter Hoyle guy, and why do Latimer and Hager have him trashing Ibogaine in the pages of HIGH TIMES? I must confess I missed it, but I would have thought you would have posted any mention of ibo in the magazine to the list.<

I don’t know about this, don’t know who Hoyle is, haven’t seen what you’re talking about, I’m innocent…well, ignorant of this anyway. What issue is it in?

He’s the only critic of Ibogaine the Georgia Straight could find, apparently. And the reason for that was he was already on record in High Times. But I said I didn’t know what issue. The Georgia Straight merely cited it, they didn’t a complete citation.

I thought maybe you could find out more easily than the rest of us. The importance lies in the rest of what this guy is saying, which seems to be the new line of the Ibogaine skeptics: “…American drug researcher Peter
Hoyle, …according to a recent High Times article, doesn’t think there’s enough evidence to warrant human
trials–especially since the mechanism of ibogaine’s action isn’t understood.”

[Which isn’t true, according to JAMA. More like they’re not bothering to find out HOW it works since they’re interested, period–because they don’t believe it works and don’t want to contemplate that they might be wrong. But that was kind of what Jonathon Ott was saying also. The new mantra, replacing Ann Ardolino and “Ibogain doesn’t work!”]

>What do you think of Marc Emery’s new, Iboga House model of the movement? Pretty neat, huh?<

It’s more than pretty neat, it’s really, really, very neat. ;p-))))

>Imagine the High Times trustees subsidizing an Ibogaine clinic.<

Ok, I’m imagining it.

>No, kappa is one first effects identified with ibogaine. What kappa does is, acutely, to stop overdose, but then over time, to upregulate the effect of mu, which overwise  would engender tolerance.<

Huh? Are you still talking about Salvia being an agonist of opiates? What’s kappa? What’s mu? And again I ask, will using Salvia kick in dope withdrawals if someone is using dope? Regardless of whether they’ve used ibogaine or not?
Peace,
Preston

That was what I started out talking about. kappa and mu are both opiate receptor types. They just do different things, is all. Mu is what you get from heroin. Kappa–dynophin.

I thought everyone knew their opiate receptor subtypes.

Dana/cnw

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine question seattle
Date: January 6, 2003 at 12:26:27 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>He’s the only critic of Ibogaine the Georgia Straight could find, apparently. And the reason for that was he was already on record in High Times. But I said I didn’t know what issue. The Georgia Straight merely cited it, they didn’t a complete citation.
I thought maybe you could find out more easily than the rest of us.<

Oooops, didn’t see the “don’t know what issue” comment Dana, so sorry.
I’ll ask around and see what this is all about. I haven’t heard anything about it until now.
Georgia STRAIGHT? The “Treatment” people? Why in the heck are they quoting HT if so?
Weird.
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Dana Beal
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2003 5:10 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine question seattle

>Preston, who is this Peter Hoyle guy, and why do Latimer and Hager have him trashing Ibogaine in the pages of HIGH TIMES? I must confess I missed it, but I would have thought you would have posted any mention of ibo in the magazine to the list.<

I don’t know about this, don’t know who Hoyle is, haven’t seen what you’re talking about, I’m innocent…well, ignorant of this anyway. What issue is it in?

He’s the only critic of Ibogaine the Georgia Straight could find, apparently. And the reason for that was he was already on record in High Times. But I said I didn’t know what issue. The Georgia Straight merely cited it, they didn’t a complete citation.

I thought maybe you could find out more easily than the rest of us. The importance lies in the rest of what this guy is saying, which seems to be the new line of the Ibogaine skeptics: “…American drug researcher Peter
Hoyle, …according to a recent High Times article, doesn’t think there’s enough evidence to warrant human
trials–especially since the mechanism of ibogaine’s action isn’t understood.”

[Which isn’t true, according to JAMA. More like they’re not bothering to find out HOW it works since they’re interested, period–because they don’t believe it works and don’t want to contemplate that they might be wrong. But that was kind of what Jonathon Ott was saying also. The new mantra, replacing Ann Ardolino and “Ibogain doesn’t work!”]

>What do you think of Marc Emery’s new, Iboga House model of the movement? Pretty neat, huh?<

It’s more than pretty neat, it’s really, really, very neat. ;p-))))

>Imagine the High Times trustees subsidizing an Ibogaine clinic.<

Ok, I’m imagining it.

>No, kappa is one first effects identified with ibogaine. What kappa does is, acutely, to stop overdose, but then over time, to upregulate the effect of mu, which overwise  would engender tolerance.<

Huh? Are you still talking about Salvia being an agonist of opiates? What’s kappa? What’s mu? And again I ask, will using Salvia kick in dope withdrawals if someone is using dope? Regardless of whether they’ve used ibogaine or not?
Peace,
Preston

That was what I started out talking about. kappa and mu are both opiate receptor types. They just do different things, is all. Mu is what you get from heroin. Kappa–dynophin.

I thought everyone knew their opiate receptor subtypes.

Dana/cnw

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine question seattle
Date: January 5, 2003 at 11:42:09 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

again, what issue are we talking about here? I’d like to see this article please.
Thanks.
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Dana Beal
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2003 5:10 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine question seattle

>Preston, who is this Peter Hoyle guy, and why do Latimer and Hager have him trashing Ibogaine in the pages of HIGH TIMES? I must confess I missed it, but I would have thought you would have posted any mention of ibo in the magazine to the list.<

I don’t know about this, don’t know who Hoyle is, haven’t seen what you’re talking about, I’m innocent…well, ignorant of this anyway. What issue is it in?

He’s the only critic of Ibogaine the Georgia Straight could find, apparently. And the reason for that was he was already on record in High Times. But I said I didn’t know what issue. The Georgia Straight merely cited it, they didn’t a complete citation.

I thought maybe you could find out more easily than the rest of us. The importance lies in the rest of what this guy is saying, which seems to be the new line of the Ibogaine skeptics: “…American drug researcher Peter
Hoyle, …according to a recent High Times article, doesn’t think there’s enough evidence to warrant human
trials–especially since the mechanism of ibogaine’s action isn’t understood.”

[Which isn’t true, according to JAMA. More like they’re not bothering to find out HOW it works since they’re interested, period–because they don’t believe it works and don’t want to contemplate that they might be wrong. But that was kind of what Jonathon Ott was saying also. The new mantra, replacing Ann Ardolino and “Ibogain doesn’t work!”]

>What do you think of Marc Emery’s new, Iboga House model of the movement? Pretty neat, huh?<

It’s more than pretty neat, it’s really, really, very neat. ;p-))))

>Imagine the High Times trustees subsidizing an Ibogaine clinic.<

Ok, I’m imagining it.

>No, kappa is one first effects identified with ibogaine. What kappa does is, acutely, to stop overdose, but then over time, to upregulate the effect of mu, which overwise  would engender tolerance.<

Huh? Are you still talking about Salvia being an agonist of opiates? What’s kappa? What’s mu? And again I ask, will using Salvia kick in dope withdrawals if someone is using dope? Regardless of whether they’ve used ibogaine or not?
Peace,
Preston

That was what I started out talking about. kappa and mu are both opiate receptor types. They just do different things, is all. Mu is what you get from heroin. Kappa–dynophin.

I thought everyone knew their opiate receptor subtypes.

Dana/cnw

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine question seattle
Date: January 5, 2003 at 11:41:12 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>I thought everyone knew their opiate receptor subtypes.<

LOL, nope.
Peace,
Preston (but now I do, thanks.)
—– Original Message —–
From: Dana Beal
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2003 5:10 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine question seattle

>Preston, who is this Peter Hoyle guy, and why do Latimer and Hager have him trashing Ibogaine in the pages of HIGH TIMES? I must confess I missed it, but I would have thought you would have posted any mention of ibo in the magazine to the list.<

I don’t know about this, don’t know who Hoyle is, haven’t seen what you’re talking about, I’m innocent…well, ignorant of this anyway. What issue is it in?

He’s the only critic of Ibogaine the Georgia Straight could find, apparently. And the reason for that was he was already on record in High Times. But I said I didn’t know what issue. The Georgia Straight merely cited it, they didn’t a complete citation.

I thought maybe you could find out more easily than the rest of us. The importance lies in the rest of what this guy is saying, which seems to be the new line of the Ibogaine skeptics: “…American drug researcher Peter
Hoyle, …according to a recent High Times article, doesn’t think there’s enough evidence to warrant human
trials–especially since the mechanism of ibogaine’s action isn’t understood.”

[Which isn’t true, according to JAMA. More like they’re not bothering to find out HOW it works since they’re interested, period–because they don’t believe it works and don’t want to contemplate that they might be wrong. But that was kind of what Jonathon Ott was saying also. The new mantra, replacing Ann Ardolino and “Ibogain doesn’t work!”]

>What do you think of Marc Emery’s new, Iboga House model of the movement? Pretty neat, huh?<

It’s more than pretty neat, it’s really, really, very neat. ;p-))))

>Imagine the High Times trustees subsidizing an Ibogaine clinic.<

Ok, I’m imagining it.

>No, kappa is one first effects identified with ibogaine. What kappa does is, acutely, to stop overdose, but then over time, to upregulate the effect of mu, which overwise  would engender tolerance.<

Huh? Are you still talking about Salvia being an agonist of opiates? What’s kappa? What’s mu? And again I ask, will using Salvia kick in dope withdrawals if someone is using dope? Regardless of whether they’ve used ibogaine or not?
Peace,
Preston

That was what I started out talking about. kappa and mu are both opiate receptor types. They just do different things, is all. Mu is what you get from heroin. Kappa–dynophin.

I thought everyone knew their opiate receptor subtypes.

Dana/cnw

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine question seattle
Date: January 5, 2003 at 10:54:29 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Fri, Jan 03, 2003 at 08:20:21PM -0800], [Joshua Tinnin] wrote:

| As I said, I am going to be following up with other therapy. But would
| prefer to leave it at that for the moment. I am not a brilliant communicator
| as Patrick is,

Sure you are.  You communicate very well.  If you’re unsure how to express
it, then just write down anchors to pieces of the experience, so you can
connect yourself back to it.  While extremely altered that works for me,
and sort of de-loops entire pieces of time, which would otherwise sink
back into being unformed.

| and haven’t yet figured it all out for myself, either. But
| this is something that I feel has to be shared at some point, because, if it
| has the possibility of helping someone, then it will have been worth it. I
| just don’t want people dosing themselves thinking that’s what I told them to
| do, and then getting pissed because it didn’t work for them, or because,
| forbid, they got screwed up by the experience. Just gotta tread carefully
| and take this a bit at a time, and later maybe can speak to it when I
| understand it better, when it would be less likely to be misunderstood …

Do you get that thing with the entire cheerleading team of a high school,
and an IV in each arm, one with cocaine, the other with a morphine/heroin
mixture (for that wunnerful pins and needles morphine rush, and heroin
downhead)…?  That’s part of the whole entire Valhalla I am Coming cycle;
Joseph Campbell, Ken Wilber, and Alan Watts all mention it; not using
those exact words, but it’s what they meant to say.

Garab Dorje also touches upon it in the supressed masterpiece, “Godhead is
one killer fucking rush mahn!  Woo Hoo!”

Patrick

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine question seattle
Date: January 5, 2003 at 10:43:48 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Sun, Jan 05, 2003 at 07:28:26PM -0800], [crownofthorns@hushmail.com] wrote:
|
| Understood and thanks for answering bro, Patrick just ignored me 🙁

I can’t answer this in a couple of paragraphs, I have roughly 40,000 words
on that topic alone, and I’m not dumping them into the list or online
sumplace do0d.

Patrick

| On Fri, 03 Jan 2003 20:20:21 -0800 Joshua Tinnin <krinklyfig@myrealbox.com> wrote:
| >Hey, Curtis,
| >
| >I can’t really talk about it too much at the moment, so I hope you
| >can
| >understand this. Maybe I could take it offlist or something …
| >it’s just a
| >very personal situation at the moment, and I’m still trying to work
| >through
| >it. But, just to clarify, I never had any addiction to opiates,

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine question seattle
Date: January 5, 2003 at 10:40:13 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Sun, Jan 05, 2003 at 07:24:43PM -0800], [crownofthorns@hushmail.com] wrote:

| Very harsh. Lot of negative energy on that site bro, I start to
| understand your reasoning. To ask a question where i’m not being
| facetious, is that actually what you get at the heart of darkness?
| gooberman I mean and so how do you get out of it if killing him doesn’t
| work? I need the cheat sheet in case I ever get stuck there! 🙂

No, what’s at the absolute heart of darkness, is light.

Yeah I did have that scenario, but it’s one of tens of thousands.  The
answer for how to get out, is always exactly the same: just drop it and
focus on something positive that has resonance for you, and you will be
lifted out of that headspace, and into whatever you’re resonating with.

Logic and reason eat themselves, and it is impossible to think your way
out of it, you just wind up getting more and more tangled.

Life’s just like a funhouse; an endless series of projections and
distorted reflections.  What you put out, is what you get back.  There are
no answers to any of the dark spaces, except they simply are, because
everything just IS.

Acceptance and awareness of this, usually lets you pull out of duality and
the concepts of right and wrong, good and evil — which are all
abstractions and points of view — into non-duality.  The Purple Shit is
non-duality, and pulling up and out of it to see everything for what it
is: an endlessly interlocking series of scripts that intersect with one
another.  Everyone is living whatever script they think they needed to
have.

Of course that’s just my opinion, based upon my observations, perceptions
and life experience.  I’m pretty sure that other people have a large
variety of different conceptualizations.  Life’s just like that.

Patrick

From: crownofthorns@hushmail.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine question seattle
Date: January 5, 2003 at 10:28:26 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Understood and thanks for answering bro, Patrick just ignored me 🙁

Peace out,
Curtis

On Fri, 03 Jan 2003 20:20:21 -0800 Joshua Tinnin <krinklyfig@myrealbox.com> wrote:
Hey, Curtis,

I can’t really talk about it too much at the moment, so I hope you
can
understand this. Maybe I could take it offlist or something …
it’s just a
very personal situation at the moment, and I’m still trying to work
through
it. But, just to clarify, I never had any addiction to opiates,
although I
probably would have if I put myself in that situation, which I consciously
avoided. My addiction was to a different substance. Although LSD
helped me
immensely, I’m not out of the woods, and I didn’t take it intending
to be
changed forever by it … but, well, it happened anyway. I’m not
by any
means new to the experience in general. This is why I’m afraid to
advocate
for it, because it took more than just LSD for it to work, and I’m
not quite
sure what all the elements were that did that. I think it was just
the right
time for me, but didn’t know it until it happened. It was a ton
of bricks
and about a freight train hitting me at full speed … LSD was the
catalyst,
to be sure, but it required a very careful combination of other
things (not
chemicals) to be in place for it to work that way. It’s unpredicatble.
It
left me with some lingering questions and problems, and some of
them are
just my own lack of self esteem, but it takes time to sort it out.

As I said, I am going to be following up with other therapy. But
would
prefer to leave it at that for the moment. I am not a brilliant
communicator
as Patrick is, and haven’t yet figured it all out for myself, either.
But
this is something that I feel has to be shared at some point, because,
if it
has the possibility of helping someone, then it will have been worth
it. I
just don’t want people dosing themselves thinking that’s what I
told them to
do, and then getting pissed because it didn’t work for them, or
because,
forbid, they got screwed up by the experience. Just gotta tread
carefully
and take this a bit at a time, and later maybe can speak to it when
I
understand it better, when it would be less likely to be misunderstood

– jt

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

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From: crownofthorns@hushmail.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine question seattle
Date: January 5, 2003 at 10:25:36 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I don’t find it funny either, I’ve been at the receiving side of too many people like him. I never got better until I got away from all of them.

Peace out,
Curtis

On Sun, 05 Jan 2003 16:40:52 -0800 Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com> wrote:
Sorry guys I don’t find this funny. That person with
the urod site is so totally disgusting, he should not
be allowed to treat human beings. I don’t see the
humor in it.

Carla B

— brendan22@hushmail.com wrote:

Cheery guy.

I’m only on slide 10 so far. His theory is that
opiate addiction can be cured by dying. At least he
left you one way out and helped at least those 7
people he killed get cured of opiate addiction 😉


Opiate addiction is a chronic, lifelong and fatal
disease. It is incurable, but treatable. It is
manageable, but challenging. Recognizing these facts
is imperative in treating a patient who is addicted
to heroin or other opiates.

The fact that opiate addiction is a chronic,
lifelong and fatal disease is underscored and
supported by a study released in May, 2001 and
published in the Archives of General Psychiatry. The
study, conducted by Haer, Hoffman, Grelia and
Anglin, followed 581 opiate addicts over a 33-year
period. The most significant fact of this study is
this: after 33 years, half of these addicts were
dead. The study tells us that the average age at
death was 57, which indicates that this disease
considerably shortens the lives of patients who
suffer from it.

Even though the facts of this study support the
conclusion that opiate addiction is a lifelong,
fatal disease, there is a misconception that addicts
somehow have control over this powerful and
destructive condition, that they should try harder,
or just abstain and everything will be okay. But
this is completely false, and detrimental to the
treatment and health of patients with the disease of
addiction. Opiate addiction is a recurrent illness,
characterized by multiple relapses. The relapses are
part and parcel of the illness, similar to the
development of new malignancies in cancer, or a
history of heart attacks or arrhythmias in people
with heart disease.

Regarding opiate addiction as a lifelong disease
really requires a paradigm shift in the way
addiction is viewed. It is, in fact, no different
from diseases like cancer or heart disease, or other
chronic, fatal diseases.”

On Sun, 05 Jan 2003 11:02:02 -0800 “Patrick K.
Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> wrote:

There is nothing I can possibly say that expresses
any of it better
than
what Lance has to say for himself.  What is
stunning and absolutely
blows
my mind, is how proud he is of creating this little
paradigm, and
so
loving it that he has willingly filled his mind
with this shit,
crawled
inside it, and appears to be happy living locked
inside a box and
ruled by
fear.

This is Lance Gooberman’s headspace, he splatters
it all over the
place
and spends all his free time attempting to inflict
his beliefs upon
anyone
stupid enough to want a UROD.

152 slides of the contents of Lance’s head.  Truly
a beautiful place,

filled with a lot of beauty, strength and hope:

http://www.lancegooberman.com/tutorial.htm

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get
FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

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Program:

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From: crownofthorns@hushmail.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine question seattle
Date: January 5, 2003 at 10:24:43 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Very harsh. Lot of negative energy on that site bro, I start to understand your reasoning. To ask a question where i’m not being facetious, is that actually what you get at the heart of darkness? gooberman I mean and so how do you get out of it if killing him doesn’t work? I need the cheat sheet in case I ever get stuck there! 🙂

Peace out,
Curtis

On Sun, 05 Jan 2003 11:02:02 -0800 “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> wrote:
On [Fri, Jan 03, 2003 at 07:12:39PM -0800], [crownofthorns@hushmail.com]
wrote:

| That was very restrained Patrick, what no top 100 reasons you
hate
| Lance Gooberman list? 😉
|
| If I remember your little speech right bro, Richard Resnick was
a
| wonderful doctor who is being persecuted for helping people and
Lance
| Gooberman should be cut into little pieces. Resnick gave you a
lot of
| drugs and all you got from Gooberman were 2 lousy urods 😉

I didn’t say that, I said Lance should be strung-out and then detoxed
using the exact methodology he feels okay to employ on other people.
Lance is a basehead (not past tense in the mid-late 90’s) not a
junkie —
that was his partner — Lance has never been sprung.

He’s also a piece of shit, and an idiot.  Having said all that I
am unsure
that I could wish anything worse upon him that what he already lives
within every day of his life.  He’s THE fat, bald, stupid, Ronald
McDonald
looking Archetype for treatment pimp.

There is nothing I can possibly say that expresses any of it better
than
what Lance has to say for himself.  What is stunning and absolutely
blows
my mind, is how proud he is of creating this little paradigm, and
so
loving it that he has willingly filled his mind with this shit,
crawled
inside it, and appears to be happy living locked inside a box and
ruled by
fear.

This is Lance Gooberman’s headspace, he splatters it all over the
place
and spends all his free time attempting to inflict his beliefs upon
anyone
stupid enough to want a UROD.

152 slides of the contents of Lance’s head.  Truly a beautiful place,

filled with a lot of beauty, strength and hope:

http://www.lancegooberman.com/tutorial.htm

Apocalyptic visions of hell filled with infernos and legions of
demons,
are all pretty cartoony, videogame-like, and ultimately fun!@#121!@!!!!!
What’s really at the very deepest, darkest, heart of darkness, is
a little
room with Lance Gooberman inside of it, where you will sit and listen
to
him talk bullshit for All Eternity — or longer, if at all possible

while going through withdrawal.  And every time you kill him, all
the
pieces reassemble until you wind up with an endless ocean of Lance
Gooberman’s who will simply not shut the fuck up.

I am highly resentful of having had to waste a fucking HUGE amount
of
processing time on the Cosmic CPU just to strip all that shit out
of my
mind, and set fire to it.

All of which is a long way of saying I hate Lance Gooberman, and
believe
he should burst into fucking flames and die.  But in a loving, nurturing,

compassionate way.

– – – – – – – – –

Resnick is nothing whatsoever like this.  He’s a reasonably smart
guy and
a decent person.  All he did was flip through my list of former
shrinks
and treatment pimps, arrive at the conclusion that nothing he said
to me
was gonna make much of a dent, explained all the options for the
different
things he does, and asked me what I wanted to try.

Well, everything of course!  Why else would I possibly be wandering
through this headspace if I didn’t want all experience?

He gets harassed because he has an, uhm, arrangement to do various
studies.  He doesn’t write for narcotic analgesics, he just goes
into the
magical room, and then throws handfuls of nEaT DruGZ at you.  Then
every
so often one of his clients gets busted going through a metal detector
holding 50 syringes and 300 ampules of buprinex with no script,
and no
name on any of it.

So you have some guy with enough drugs on him to kill half the
neighborhood who is explaining it’s all for him and he doesn’t have
intent
to distribute and it all came from his doctor, this dude named Resnick,

and so it goes…

When all is said and done I dropped maybe $15K on Lance, and $30K
on
Resnick.  My feelings towards Gooberman are obvious, but I have
no
ill-will towards Resnick at all.  He isn’t a treatment pimp.  It
was
just like, oh well, it didn’t work out, maybe another 200-300 tries
and
I’ll finally get it right.  Catcha later do0d.

Patrick

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
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From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine question seattle
Date: January 5, 2003 at 7:40:52 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sorry guys I don’t find this funny. That person with
the urod site is so totally disgusting, he should not
be allowed to treat human beings. I don’t see the
humor in it.

Carla B

— brendan22@hushmail.com wrote:

Cheery guy.

I’m only on slide 10 so far. His theory is that
opiate addiction can be cured by dying. At least he
left you one way out and helped at least those 7
people he killed get cured of opiate addiction 😉


Opiate addiction is a chronic, lifelong and fatal
disease. It is incurable, but treatable. It is
manageable, but challenging. Recognizing these facts
is imperative in treating a patient who is addicted
to heroin or other opiates.

The fact that opiate addiction is a chronic,
lifelong and fatal disease is underscored and
supported by a study released in May, 2001 and
published in the Archives of General Psychiatry. The
study, conducted by Haer, Hoffman, Grelia and
Anglin, followed 581 opiate addicts over a 33-year
period. The most significant fact of this study is
this: after 33 years, half of these addicts were
dead. The study tells us that the average age at
death was 57, which indicates that this disease
considerably shortens the lives of patients who
suffer from it.

Even though the facts of this study support the
conclusion that opiate addiction is a lifelong,
fatal disease, there is a misconception that addicts
somehow have control over this powerful and
destructive condition, that they should try harder,
or just abstain and everything will be okay. But
this is completely false, and detrimental to the
treatment and health of patients with the disease of
addiction. Opiate addiction is a recurrent illness,
characterized by multiple relapses. The relapses are
part and parcel of the illness, similar to the
development of new malignancies in cancer, or a
history of heart attacks or arrhythmias in people
with heart disease.

Regarding opiate addiction as a lifelong disease
really requires a paradigm shift in the way
addiction is viewed. It is, in fact, no different
from diseases like cancer or heart disease, or other
chronic, fatal diseases.”

On Sun, 05 Jan 2003 11:02:02 -0800 “Patrick K.
Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> wrote:

There is nothing I can possibly say that expresses
any of it better
than
what Lance has to say for himself.  What is
stunning and absolutely
blows
my mind, is how proud he is of creating this little
paradigm, and
so
loving it that he has willingly filled his mind
with this shit,
crawled
inside it, and appears to be happy living locked
inside a box and
ruled by
fear.

This is Lance Gooberman’s headspace, he splatters
it all over the
place
and spends all his free time attempting to inflict
his beliefs upon
anyone
stupid enough to want a UROD.

152 slides of the contents of Lance’s head.  Truly
a beautiful place,

filled with a lot of beauty, strength and hope:

http://www.lancegooberman.com/tutorial.htm

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to
get
FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Big $$$ to be made with the HushMail Affiliate
Program:

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From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine question seattle
Date: January 5, 2003 at 5:45:22 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Sun, 5 Jan 2003, Dana Beal wrote:

seems to be the new line of the Ibogaine skeptics: “…American drug
researcher Peter
Hoyle, …according to a recent High Times article, doesn’t think
there’s enough evidence to warrant human
trials–especially since the mechanism of ibogaine’s action isn’t understood.”

ahah, thats a laugh.

we don’t understand how half of the commonly used psychiatric medications
work…

=)

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine question seattle
Date: January 5, 2003 at 5:10:35 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>Preston, who is this Peter Hoyle guy, and why do Latimer and Hager have him trashing Ibogaine in the pages of HIGH TIMES? I must confess I missed it, but I would have thought you would have posted any mention of ibo in the magazine to the list.<

I don’t know about this, don’t know who Hoyle is, haven’t seen what you’re talking about, I’m innocent…well, ignorant of this anyway. What issue is it in?

He’s the only critic of Ibogaine the Georgia Straight could find, apparently. And the reason for that was he was already on record in High Times. But I said I didn’t know what issue. The Georgia Straight merely cited it, they didn’t a complete citation.

I thought maybe you could find out more easily than the rest of us. The importance lies in the rest of what this guy is saying, which seems to be the new line of the Ibogaine skeptics: “…American drug researcher Peter
Hoyle, …according to a recent High Times article, doesn’t think there’s enough evidence to warrant human
trials–especially since the mechanism of ibogaine’s action isn’t understood.”

[Which isn’t true, according to JAMA. More like they’re not bothering to find out HOW it works since they’re interested, period–because they don’t believe it works and don’t want to contemplate that they might be wrong. But that was kind of what Jonathon Ott was saying also. The new mantra, replacing Ann Ardolino and “Ibogain doesn’t work!”]

>What do you think of Marc Emery’s new, Iboga House model of the movement? Pretty neat, huh?<

It’s more than pretty neat, it’s really, really, very neat. ;p-))))

>Imagine the High Times trustees subsidizing an Ibogaine clinic.<

Ok, I’m imagining it.

>No, kappa is one first effects identified with ibogaine. What kappa does is, acutely, to stop overdose, but then over time, to upregulate the effect of mu, which overwise  would engender tolerance.<

Huh? Are you still talking about Salvia being an agonist of opiates? What’s kappa? What’s mu? And again I ask, will using Salvia kick in dope withdrawals if someone is using dope? Regardless of whether they’ve used ibogaine or not?
Peace,
Preston

That was what I started out talking about. kappa and mu are both opiate receptor types. They just do different things, is all. Mu is what you get from heroin. Kappa–dynophin.

I thought everyone knew their opiate receptor subtypes.

Dana/cnw

From: brendan22@hushmail.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine question seattle
Date: January 5, 2003 at 4:29:38 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Cheery guy.

I’m only on slide 10 so far. His theory is that opiate addiction can be cured by dying. At least he left you one way out and helped at least those 7 people he killed get cured of opiate addiction 😉


Opiate addiction is a chronic, lifelong and fatal disease. It is incurable, but treatable. It is manageable, but challenging. Recognizing these facts is imperative in treating a patient who is addicted to heroin or other opiates.

The fact that opiate addiction is a chronic, lifelong and fatal disease is underscored and supported by a study released in May, 2001 and published in the Archives of General Psychiatry. The study, conducted by Haer, Hoffman, Grelia and Anglin, followed 581 opiate addicts over a 33-year period. The most significant fact of this study is this: after 33 years, half of these addicts were dead. The study tells us that the average age at death was 57, which indicates that this disease considerably shortens the lives of patients who suffer from it.

Even though the facts of this study support the conclusion that opiate addiction is a lifelong, fatal disease, there is a misconception that addicts somehow have control over this powerful and destructive condition, that they should try harder, or just abstain and everything will be okay. But this is completely false, and detrimental to the treatment and health of patients with the disease of addiction. Opiate addiction is a recurrent illness, characterized by multiple relapses. The relapses are part and parcel of the illness, similar to the development of new malignancies in cancer, or a history of heart attacks or arrhythmias in people with heart disease.

Regarding opiate addiction as a lifelong disease really requires a paradigm shift in the way addiction is viewed. It is, in fact, no different from diseases like cancer or heart disease, or other chronic, fatal diseases.”

On Sun, 05 Jan 2003 11:02:02 -0800 “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> wrote:

There is nothing I can possibly say that expresses any of it better
than
what Lance has to say for himself.  What is stunning and absolutely
blows
my mind, is how proud he is of creating this little paradigm, and
so
loving it that he has willingly filled his mind with this shit,
crawled
inside it, and appears to be happy living locked inside a box and
ruled by
fear.

This is Lance Gooberman’s headspace, he splatters it all over the
place
and spends all his free time attempting to inflict his beliefs upon
anyone
stupid enough to want a UROD.

152 slides of the contents of Lance’s head.  Truly a beautiful place,

filled with a lot of beauty, strength and hope:

http://www.lancegooberman.com/tutorial.htm

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Big $$$ to be made with the HushMail Affiliate Program:
https://www.hushmail.com/about.php?subloc=affiliate&l=427

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine question seattle
Date: January 5, 2003 at 2:02:02 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Fri, Jan 03, 2003 at 07:12:39PM -0800], [crownofthorns@hushmail.com] wrote:

| That was very restrained Patrick, what no top 100 reasons you hate
| Lance Gooberman list? 😉
|
| If I remember your little speech right bro, Richard Resnick was a
| wonderful doctor who is being persecuted for helping people and Lance
| Gooberman should be cut into little pieces. Resnick gave you a lot of
| drugs and all you got from Gooberman were 2 lousy urods 😉

I didn’t say that, I said Lance should be strung-out and then detoxed
using the exact methodology he feels okay to employ on other people.
Lance is a basehead (not past tense in the mid-late 90’s) not a junkie —
that was his partner — Lance has never been sprung.

He’s also a piece of shit, and an idiot.  Having said all that I am unsure
that I could wish anything worse upon him that what he already lives
within every day of his life.  He’s THE fat, bald, stupid, Ronald McDonald
looking Archetype for treatment pimp.

There is nothing I can possibly say that expresses any of it better than
what Lance has to say for himself.  What is stunning and absolutely blows
my mind, is how proud he is of creating this little paradigm, and so
loving it that he has willingly filled his mind with this shit, crawled
inside it, and appears to be happy living locked inside a box and ruled by
fear.

This is Lance Gooberman’s headspace, he splatters it all over the place
and spends all his free time attempting to inflict his beliefs upon anyone
stupid enough to want a UROD.

152 slides of the contents of Lance’s head.  Truly a beautiful place,
filled with a lot of beauty, strength and hope:

http://www.lancegooberman.com/tutorial.htm

Apocalyptic visions of hell filled with infernos and legions of demons,
are all pretty cartoony, videogame-like, and ultimately fun!@#121!@!!!!!
What’s really at the very deepest, darkest, heart of darkness, is a little
room with Lance Gooberman inside of it, where you will sit and listen to
him talk bullshit for All Eternity — or longer, if at all possible —
while going through withdrawal.  And every time you kill him, all the
pieces reassemble until you wind up with an endless ocean of Lance
Gooberman’s who will simply not shut the fuck up.

I am highly resentful of having had to waste a fucking HUGE amount of
processing time on the Cosmic CPU just to strip all that shit out of my
mind, and set fire to it.

All of which is a long way of saying I hate Lance Gooberman, and believe
he should burst into fucking flames and die.  But in a loving, nurturing,
compassionate way.

– – – – – – – – –

Resnick is nothing whatsoever like this.  He’s a reasonably smart guy and
a decent person.  All he did was flip through my list of former shrinks
and treatment pimps, arrive at the conclusion that nothing he said to me
was gonna make much of a dent, explained all the options for the different
things he does, and asked me what I wanted to try.

Well, everything of course!  Why else would I possibly be wandering
through this headspace if I didn’t want all experience?

He gets harassed because he has an, uhm, arrangement to do various
studies.  He doesn’t write for narcotic analgesics, he just goes into the
magical room, and then throws handfuls of nEaT DruGZ at you.  Then every
so often one of his clients gets busted going through a metal detector
holding 50 syringes and 300 ampules of buprinex with no script, and no
name on any of it.

So you have some guy with enough drugs on him to kill half the
neighborhood who is explaining it’s all for him and he doesn’t have intent
to distribute and it all came from his doctor, this dude named Resnick,
and so it goes…

When all is said and done I dropped maybe $15K on Lance, and $30K on
Resnick.  My feelings towards Gooberman are obvious, but I have no
ill-will towards Resnick at all.  He isn’t a treatment pimp.  It was
just like, oh well, it didn’t work out, maybe another 200-300 tries and
I’ll finally get it right.  Catcha later do0d.

Patrick

From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine question seattle
Date: January 5, 2003 at 12:32:15 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Sun, 5 Jan 2003, preston peet wrote:

i wonder if that (it being helpful) might have anything to do with it
being a partial opiate agonist.<

What do you mean- Salvia kicks in withdrawals if used?

oh no….as joshua (i think) mentioned, i meant opioid agonist, not
opiate.

that is, salvia excites a particular type of opioid receptor in the brain
(kappa receptor). so basically, my thought was that salvia might help with
cravings, since it acts on a part of the brain that both opiates and
ibogaine work on.

but i should say that this is only conjecture….i’ve got some background
in pharmacology, but i’m no expert…

==========================================================================
|                                                                        |
| League of Surrealist Discord        –               www.lsdrecords.net |
|                                                                        |
|                  ‘Tis an ill wind that blows no minds…               |
————————————————————————–

From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine question seattle
Date: January 5, 2003 at 12:14:44 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Sat, 4 Jan 2003, Joshua Tinnin wrote:

Salvionorin A, the active ingredient in Salvia d., is a kappa opioid
receptor (not opiate) agonist. So is enadoline. Not sure about ibogaine.

duh…yes, i meant opioid. i should remember not to try to post
intelligently after having a fight with my girlfriend… =)

now that i’m a bit more clearheaded, ibogaine acts as an agonist to some
degree on the mu, delta, and kappa opioid receptors, not with very high
affinity. out of those three though, its highest affinity is for the kappa
subtype.

noribogaine, ibogaine’s primary metabolite, binds to those three receptors
with quite high affinity, the highest being for the kappa subtype
according to Bhargava et al (1997). (though pablo and mash found that
noribogaine bound with a higher affinity to the mu subtype.

in any case, this might let some credence to my speculation that salvia
might be useful due to having some of the same pharmacological actions as
ibogaine. although, because ibogaine acts on so many neurotransmitter
systems that it’s entirely possible that i’m just talking out of my
ass…. =)

==========================================================================
|                                                                        |
| League of Surrealist Discord        –               www.lsdrecords.net |
|                                                                        |
|                  ‘Tis an ill wind that blows no minds…               |
————————————————————————–

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine question seattle
Date: January 5, 2003 at 12:02:54 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston,

It is an antagonist like naltrexone that will
precipitate withdrawals, not an agonist like
methadone/morphine/salvia/ibogaine… In any case
Ibogaine still works (though less) when given an
antagonist to an opiate addicted person.

Brett

Huh? Are you still talking about Salvia being an
agonist of opiates? What’s kappa? What’s mu? And
again I ask, will using Salvia kick in dope
withdrawals if someone is using dope? Regardless of
whether they’ve used ibogaine or not?
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Dana Beal
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2003 10:13 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine question seattle

i wonder if that (it being helpful) might have
anything to do with it
being a partial opiate agonist.<

What do you mean- Salvia kicks in withdrawals if
used?
Peace,
Preston

No, kappa is one first effects identified with
ibogaine. What kappa does is, acutely, to stop
overdose, but then over time, to upregulate the
effect of mu, which overwise  would engender
tolerance.

Preston, who is this Peter Hoyle guy, and why do
Latimer and Hager have him trashing Ibogaine in the
pages of HIGH TIMES? I must confess I missed it, but
I would have thought you would have posted any
mention of ibo in the magazine to the list.

What do you think of Marc Emery’s new, Iboga House
model of the movement? Pretty neat, huh?

Imagine the High Times trustees subsidizing an
Ibogaine clinic.

Dana/cnw

__________________________________________________
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From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine question seattle
Date: January 5, 2003 at 10:26:59 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>Preston, who is this Peter Hoyle guy, and why do Latimer and Hager have him trashing Ibogaine in the pages of HIGH TIMES? I must confess I missed it, but I would have thought you would have posted any mention of ibo in the magazine to the list.<

I don’t know about this, don’t know who Hoyle is, haven’t seen what you’re talking about, I’m innocent…well, ignorant of this anyway. What issue is it in?

>What do you think of Marc Emery’s new, Iboga House model of the movement? Pretty neat, huh?<

It’s more than pretty neat, it’s really, really, very neat. ;p-))))

>Imagine the High Times trustees subsidizing an Ibogaine clinic.<

Ok, I’m imagining it.

>No, kappa is one first effects identified with ibogaine. What kappa does is, acutely, to stop overdose, but then over time, to upregulate the effect of mu, which overwise  would engender tolerance.<

Huh? Are you still talking about Salvia being an agonist of opiates? What’s kappa? What’s mu? And again I ask, will using Salvia kick in dope withdrawals if someone is using dope? Regardless of whether they’ve used ibogaine or not?
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Dana Beal
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2003 10:13 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine question seattle

>i wonder if that (it being helpful) might have anything to do with it
being a partial opiate agonist.<

What do you mean- Salvia kicks in withdrawals if used?
Peace,
Preston

No, kappa is one first effects identified with ibogaine. What kappa does is, acutely, to stop overdose, but then over time, to upregulate the effect of mu, which overwise  would engender tolerance.

Preston, who is this Peter Hoyle guy, and why do Latimer and Hager have him trashing Ibogaine in the pages of HIGH TIMES? I must confess I missed it, but I would have thought you would have posted any mention of ibo in the magazine to the list.

What do you think of Marc Emery’s new, Iboga House model of the movement? Pretty neat, huh?

Imagine the High Times trustees subsidizing an Ibogaine clinic.

Dana/cnw

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine question seattle
Date: January 5, 2003 at 10:13:50 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>i wonder if that (it being helpful) might have anything to do with it
being a partial opiate agonist.<

What do you mean- Salvia kicks in withdrawals if used?
Peace,
Preston

No, kappa is one first effects identified with ibogaine. What kappa does is, acutely, to stop overdose, but then over time, to upregulate the effect of mu, which overwise  would engender tolerance.

Preston, who is this Peter Hoyle guy, and why do Latimer and Hager have him trashing Ibogaine in the pages of HIGH TIMES? I must confess I missed it, but I would have thought you would have posted any mention of ibo in the magazine to the list.

What do you think of Marc Emery’s new, Iboga House model of the movement? Pretty neat, huh?

Imagine the High Times trustees subsidizing an Ibogaine clinic.

Dana/cnw

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine question seattle
Date: January 5, 2003 at 9:08:39 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>i wonder if that (it being helpful) might have anything to do with it
being a partial opiate agonist.<

What do you mean- Salvia kicks in withdrawals if used?
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Jon Freedlander
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2003 9:29 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine question seattle

On Thu, 2 Jan 2003, Ustanova Iboga wrote:

> Another thing that seems to help during that period is Salvia Divinorum –
> but not smoked! A fresh leaf or two is rolled and put under the tongue –
> and kept there!

i wonder if that (it being helpful) might have anything to do with it
being a partial opiate agonist. i forget what subtype it is tho; it would
be interesting if it was the same subtype that ibogaine works on. which,
or course, i also forget. =)

==========================================================================
|                                                                        |
| League of Surrealist Discord        –               www.lsdrecords.net |
|                                                                        |
|                  ‘Tis an ill wind that blows no minds…               |
————————————————————————–

From: “Randy Hencken” <randyhencken@hotmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Reminiscing about treatment pimp abuse
Date: January 5, 2003 at 4:05:34 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Right before I got clean, I was taken 85 mg of pink juice and slamming somewhere around $100 a day worth of dope in good old belushi style speedball fashion.  So when I returnded from mexico after my ibo trip I was pretty pleased to have been needle free for a few weeks.  Naturally, I felt rocky in the stability of my recovery, I had returned to using after detoxing several times before.  I was willining to do whatever it took to ensure a one way trip away from being a junkie.  Searching for a therapist/pyschiatrist to work with I came across a jackass, I mean doctor named Dr. Rand, here in San Diego.  I had been referred to Dr. Rand by another psychiatrist office in town saying that Dr. Rand was a speacilist/expert in addicition.

Dr. Rand told me that I was an addict and that the only way he could cure me is by giving me a brain transplant from a monkey.  It was already 2001 and he hadn’t even heard of ibogaine.  Did he not have a computer?  I learned about ibogaine in 1993 attending a hashbash in ann arbor where Dana spoke.  I then found ibogaine on a the net in 1996 before I used dope looking up addiction and heroin.  Had this addiciton speaclist never explored these words online?  And when I shared with the fine doctor that I had been smoking pot to releive my residual withdrawal symptoms, he told me I wasn’t even detoxed yet.

Fortunately I knew Dr. Rand was full of shit.  I had already done my own research and studying.  I knew that I wasn’t inflicted with a permanant disease. This wasn’t my first experience with the cult.  I wasn’t going to let them brainwash me again.  I was able to think for myself (Thanks Tim).  His office billed me $60 for the miserable visit.  I never paid it.   After I was off dope for 6 months I called them and told them to quit sending me bills, I wasn’t gonna pay em, I’m not shooting dope and I don’t have a monkey brain.

I paid every single cent of every debt I accumulated while I was living the life of a junkie, but I never paid Dr. Rand.

_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] ibogaine and mmda and another dead brain cell theme
Date: January 5, 2003 at 2:00:40 AM EST
To: ibogaine@ibogaine.org, ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

From Naranjo –

“In contrast with the outcome of LSD experiences which
are so often purely experiential and can hardly be
translated into words,” writes Dr. Naranjo, “Ibogaine
seems to lend itself better to the development of
intellectual insight…. I only know of one drug that
lends itself better to the manipulation of the
therapeutic experience, and this is MMDA, but the
differences between the two are great. Whereas MMDA
lends itself ideally to the probing into the ongoing
situation in the ‘here and now,’ the analytic quality
of the Ibogaine experience is useful in understanding
the ‘there and then’…. I would suggest that MMDA and
Ibogaine may complement each other well in successive
experiences, and both are in turn complementary to the
non-analytical and often impersonal or a-personal
experience of LSD”

Also came across another dead-brain-cell theme here
(it is an interesting list of herbs with usage and
doses);

http://www.ny2aap.org/npsherbs.html#IBOGAINE

NOTE (IMO of course) ibogaine has nil potential for
abuse, does have a medical use and does not kill brain
cells for “obsessive behavior”. Who comes up with this
stuff anyway? It kind of rings of a chemical lobotomy.

“IBOGAINE” (Tabernathe ibogafrom)

Ibogaine is classified by the U.S. Government as a
Schedule I drug which means no medical value and a
high potential for abuse.

Alleged use: A hallucinogen classified since 1967 as a
drug similar to LSD. In the Bwiti religion it is
believed that chewing the root enables people to speak
to the dead.

Source: It is an extract obtained from the roots of
the flowering shrub native to the West African nation
of Gabon.

Constituent: Its alkaloid, ibogaine, is being promoted
for FDA studies by Howard Lossof, heroin addict from
New Jersey who sampled it in 1962 and became
“straight”. He claims it is not addictive and as
little as one dose makes it easier for addicts to curb
cocaine and heroin addiction. Heroin and cocaine
ordinarily trigger dopamine release in the brain’s
“reward center”. Ibogaine interrupts this mechanism
and in rats it kills the brain cells that are
associated with repetitive obsessive behavior. It is
under investigation at University of Miami by Deborah
Mash and Jaun Sanchez-Roman (18,18b)

__________________________________________________
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From: “Joshua Tinnin” <krinklyfig@myrealbox.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine question seattle
Date: January 5, 2003 at 12:11:14 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

That should be Salvinorin A – typo.

– jt

—– Original Message —–
From: “Joshua Tinnin” <krinklyfig@myrealbox.com>

—– Original Message —–
From: “Jon Freedlander” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>

On Thu, 2 Jan 2003, Ustanova Iboga wrote:

Another thing that seems to help during that period is Salvia
Divinorum –
but not smoked! A fresh leaf or two is rolled and put under the
tongue –
and kept there!

i wonder if that (it being helpful) might have anything to do with it
being a partial opiate agonist. i forget what subtype it is tho; it
would
be interesting if it was the same subtype that ibogaine works on. which,
or course, i also forget. =)

Salvionorin A, the active ingredient in Salvia d., is a kappa opioid
receptor (not opiate) agonist. So is enadoline. Not sure about ibogaine.

more info: http://www.erowid.org/plants/salvia/salvia_info5.shtml

– jt

From: “Joshua Tinnin” <krinklyfig@myrealbox.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine question seattle
Date: January 5, 2003 at 12:08:41 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: “Jon Freedlander” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>

On Thu, 2 Jan 2003, Ustanova Iboga wrote:

Another thing that seems to help during that period is Salvia
Divinorum –
but not smoked! A fresh leaf or two is rolled and put under the tongue –
and kept there!

i wonder if that (it being helpful) might have anything to do with it
being a partial opiate agonist. i forget what subtype it is tho; it would
be interesting if it was the same subtype that ibogaine works on. which,
or course, i also forget. =)

Salvionorin A, the active ingredient in Salvia d., is a kappa opioid
receptor (not opiate) agonist. So is enadoline. Not sure about ibogaine.

more info: http://www.erowid.org/plants/salvia/salvia_info5.shtml

– jt

From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine question seattle
Date: January 4, 2003 at 9:29:48 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Thu, 2 Jan 2003, Ustanova Iboga wrote:

Another thing that seems to help during that period is Salvia Divinorum –
but not smoked! A fresh leaf or two is rolled and put under the tongue –
and kept there!

i wonder if that (it being helpful) might have anything to do with it
being a partial opiate agonist. i forget what subtype it is tho; it would
be interesting if it was the same subtype that ibogaine works on. which,
or course, i also forget. =)

==========================================================================
|                                                                        |
| League of Surrealist Discord        –               www.lsdrecords.net |
|                                                                        |
|                  ‘Tis an ill wind that blows no minds…               |
————————————————————————–

From: “Joshua Tinnin” <krinklyfig@myrealbox.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine question seattle
Date: January 3, 2003 at 11:20:21 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey, Curtis,

I can’t really talk about it too much at the moment, so I hope you can
understand this. Maybe I could take it offlist or something … it’s just a
very personal situation at the moment, and I’m still trying to work through
it. But, just to clarify, I never had any addiction to opiates, although I
probably would have if I put myself in that situation, which I consciously
avoided. My addiction was to a different substance. Although LSD helped me
immensely, I’m not out of the woods, and I didn’t take it intending to be
changed forever by it … but, well, it happened anyway. I’m not by any
means new to the experience in general. This is why I’m afraid to advocate
for it, because it took more than just LSD for it to work, and I’m not quite
sure what all the elements were that did that. I think it was just the right
time for me, but didn’t know it until it happened. It was a ton of bricks
and about a freight train hitting me at full speed … LSD was the catalyst,
to be sure, but it required a very careful combination of other things (not
chemicals) to be in place for it to work that way. It’s unpredicatble. It
left me with some lingering questions and problems, and some of them are
just my own lack of self esteem, but it takes time to sort it out.

As I said, I am going to be following up with other therapy. But would
prefer to leave it at that for the moment. I am not a brilliant communicator
as Patrick is, and haven’t yet figured it all out for myself, either. But
this is something that I feel has to be shared at some point, because, if it
has the possibility of helping someone, then it will have been worth it. I
just don’t want people dosing themselves thinking that’s what I told them to
do, and then getting pissed because it didn’t work for them, or because,
forbid, they got screwed up by the experience. Just gotta tread carefully
and take this a bit at a time, and later maybe can speak to it when I
understand it better, when it would be less likely to be misunderstood …

– jt

—– Original Message —–
From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>

That was very restrained Patrick, what no top 100 reasons you hate Lance
Gooberman list? 😉

If I remember your little speech right bro, Richard Resnick was a
wonderful doctor who is being persecuted for helping people and Lance
Gooberman should be cut into little pieces. Resnick gave you a lot of drugs
and all you got from Gooberman were 2 lousy urods 😉

Bro, you and Brett, Randy, some others here and that includes me, should
start a I was abused by treatment pimps list.

Speaking of which, I’m asking very politely without any stress or
anything, that Mindvox system, you remember it? Will it open any time soon,
it all seems to be there now. It all seems to have been there since November
bro, what’s the deal?

What I’m dying to know because you never answer, what is it like to do
that much acid? You and JT now. you credit ibogaine for the detox but give
all cred to LSD for letting you rearrange your head. Now I’m real curious
because I don’t like tripping that much, I would have never done acid before
doing ibogaine but now when I think about it I’ve lost a lot of my fear and
would like to try again. Not some whopping dose but 3 or 4 hits.

Peace out,
Curtis

On Thu, 02 Jan 2003 14:35:03 -0800 “Patrick K. Kroupa”
<digital@phantom.com> wrote:
On [Wed, Jan 01, 2003 at 03:24:59PM -0800], [Xiang Lee Chen] wrote:

| Thank you, my questions then would be if you don’t
| believe in the 12 steps then why did dr. mash say that
| you take people to meetings sometime?

Well, because no matter which of my realities they’re culled from,
it
seems that nearly everyone I know is either on drugs, trying to
get off
drugs, or skidding back and forth.  While it is entirely possible
to do
everything your own way, for most people it just reaches the stage
of,
“well, ya know, it’s been 6 months, I’m really not seeing any magic
happening here, hanging around with me is not sufficient to save
you from
yourself, I’m not a treatment pimp who is leeching flow off you
and I can
no longer deal with 25 phone calls a day whenever you’re having
a crisis.
Here’s a meeting, it’s completely filled with people bitching about
shit,
so spread the codependence around.  Good luck with all that.”

It’s also important to give the people in my local “recovery community”
(aka: the Legion of Hall Monitors on Crack), new material every
so often
so they can talk shit amongst themselves and exclaim, “yeah mahn,
I saw
Patrick at a meeting, he sat in the back and was all fucked up and
relapsed.”  And this still blows my mind.  That I can talk to someone
in
“recovery” who will rattle off a list of places I have theoretically
been
seen, meetings I went to, and things I “shared.”  It’s like, who
the fuck
are you people, I don’t hang out with any of you — ever, why do
you even
know that I exist much less keep track of my imaginary comings and
goings.
I hate that shit.

Anyway, basically, I occasionally drag people to 12-step meetings
because
I don’t have any other place to take them to.  There is — in theory

some sort of SMART meeting around here, but I’ve never found it
… on the
flipside I’ve never really looked.  Perhaps I should.

| My other
| question would be then do you feel lsd therapy and
| psychedelics are useful for helping people get
| abstinence from hard drugs?

Uhm . . . well, absolutely and yes.  Plus, also, not really, and
probably
not.

A pivotal moment for me was ’bout 2 years ago when a guy I was friends
with — who actually was in traditional “recovery,” working the
steps,
going to therapy, all that shit — asked me to get him acid.  And
the
conversation was reasonable, it just amounted to “I want what you
have,
help me get there.”  And I was going to, then I thought about it,
then I
thought about it a lot, passed it through the Purple Shit(TM)(SM)(Patent
Pending), and took a pass.

My conclusion at the time was, if I could hypothetically help you
get
acid, then you go and take it, find God, realign your entire universe,
and
live happier ever after…  Well, that’s highly groovy.  But, see,
if on
the flipside, you take acid, wreck your car, and take off on a 2
month
long crack run…  Then I just set all of that into play.  And I
mean, no
*I* didn’t do any of that, he would have, but I really don’t need
the
karma either way, whatever you’re looking for I cannot imagine it’ll
take
you longer than a few hours to find it, so good luck, you really
don’t
need me for that.

And what he wound up doing was blowing out, and the downward spiral
is
still going, he has not pulled back out of it.  Could it have been
avoided
if he’d had the chance to do acid… probably not, and I would be
left
holding the bag and wondering if I’m the reason all of that happened.

Without LSD, I personally, may or may not have made it.  Anything
is
possible, but let’s say I would strongly bet against it.  I also
went
somewhere where the actions I was taking were regarded as highly
positive
and full of great merit; people did not have a problem with the
fact that
I left the planet and wasn’t gonna be landing for a few months.

Had I done what I did in the United States, it would have taken
a few days
at most for some helpful person to have me Baker-acted; I would
have come
back to earth in a straitjacket, hosed down with sedatives and
neuroleptics, and then been dumped into some perpetual long-term
endless
circle-jerk of bullshit “therapeutic community” where they’d let
me out on
the playground to smoke a cigarette if I behaved really well.

I wanted reintegration; I got it.  Had I done it in the United States,
I
would have gotten some idiot jotting down a few paragraphs in my
medical
records, describing what I did as yet another manifestation of my
lifelong
drug problem.

What I’m saying is: it wouldn’t have worked out the same way.  Very
wrong
setting.

I absolutely believe that entheogens used with the proper context,
set,
setting, alla that, can provide a tremendous boost to nearly everyone.
The proper set, setting, and intent is prolly not handing someone
acid at
a rave.  What I mostly see is people turning entheogens into an
excuse to
go off and do whatever it is that they wanna do anyway (heroin or
crack).
Left to their own devices, they turn it all to shit.

All of this sorta loops back to where it begins…  I can’t make
a
generalization about what <any given drug-dependent individual>
should do.
Everyone is different.  I do not know where to send people who need
aftercare, but don’t want the 12-step crap.  Going to an ashram
is mostly
not going to work out.  If you go somewhere very straight, then
wander
around and talk about how much you wanna smoke crack all day…
Well,
it’s not gonna help you very much, and it’s unlikely that anyone
else
there will understand what you’re going through.  If you go to a
space
where drug use is accepted; there is a very high chance that in
addition
to entheogens, there’s also gonna be all the materials you are trying
to
avoid.  Will most people make the scenario work…?  Nope.

Will most people pick up self-help books like the SMART materials
and try
to figure out how to help themselves?  Nope.  Will most people do
*anything* except stay clean by force of will for a few days or
weeks,
then go back to doing <whatever>?  Nope.

The problem with all of this is that “drug treatment” sucks.  Period.
You
mostly have either a collection of pinheads with theories, who have
never
done any drugs and have no idea how “addiction” works, and then
on the
other side you have — with some few exceptions — the dumbest and
most
fucked up; by which I mean to say doctors who are perpetually <this
close>
to losing their license, and have lots and lots of experience with
drugs,
plus, also, the One True Answer to everything.  In other words:
whatever
they did to clean up (if they happen to actually be clean).  This
is
nearly always the 12 steps.

I gotta go, this is getting long, but to sum it all up: from what
I can
see of your web page, you are some program that students take classes
in,
which tries to help street people get basic medical care, new syringes,

condoms, shit like that.

The main set of problems that *most* of the people you deal with
are going
to have; is that they’re broke, out on the street, have no skills,
no
friends, and no hope.  Many of them will be mentally ill, and
self-medicating with narcotic analgesics works a fuckova lot better
than
doing neuroleptics for most things, especially schizophrenia.

Drug dependence is their solution, not their problem.  Even if you
could
dose them all with ibogaine and then follow it up with some other
kind of
entheogen-assisted therapy…  Nearly all of them will be right
back where
they started, given a week or two tops.

On the flipside, a few will fly over the cuckoo’s nest and loop
out of
that spiral.  Go figure.

laters,

Patrick

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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine question seattle
Date: January 3, 2003 at 10:52:15 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0213/lerner.php

Indeed, bad doctorsā\200\224even those who have been successfully sued
for
malpracticeā\200\224frequently escape discipline by the state.
“Negligence just
doesn’t get any sort of reaction from the board of medical examiners,”

says William Levinson, a malpractice attorney representing the estate
of a
New Jersey woman who died after a scientifically unproven treatment
known
as ultra-rapid opiate detoxification (UROD). Seven patients have died
in
the past five years after undergoing this unorthodox procedure, which
is supposed to cure heroin addiction almost instantly. But though
they’ve
agreed to temporarily stop performing UROD, the doctors who provide it,
Lance Gooberman and David Bradway, still have their medical licenses.
(Adding to Levinson’s outrage at the New Jersey board, Bradway, a
former addict, obtained his medical license after having served prison
time for manslaughter for injecting a lethal dose of a drug into a
friend and then dumping his body in a ditch.)

Gooberman got his license back right around the time you were
delivering your rant in san francisco, if that’s where it was.

http://lancegooberman.com/njlaw11-25-02.htm

Funny site I found while looking up Gooberman. They’ll ‘detox’ you from
LSD. Wonder how they do that 😉

http://www.detox24.com/drug_information/LSD.html

All I found on Resnick was this and some hits for Dana’s book where
he’s mentioned in one paragraph.

A.T. Forum spoke with Richard B. Resnick, MD ­ Clinical Associate
Professor, New York University School of Medicine and Executive
Director, Center for Psychiatry & Family Therapy, New York City ­ who
was among the first researchers to perform Phase II clinical trials in
1973 to assess dosage efficacy of naltrexone. It was tested as a
therapeutic medication following opiate detoxification, but Resnick
quickly found that to be most successful naltrexone needed to be part
of an overall psychosocial treatment program.

http://www.cures-not-wars.org/ibogaine/chap05.html

The big drug companies were not interested, but Howard had one more
move before he started his own company. He called the Director of
Clinical research at NIDA, Barry Brown, who gave him introductions to
Herb Kleber, Richard Resnick and Arnold Washton–all prominent drug
researchers. He managed to get several of them to serve on his
foundation’s advisory board: Doctors Kleber, Resnick (one of the
developers of naltrexone), and Robert Milman (director of the Substance
Abuse Unit at New York Hospital.

.:vector:.

— crownofthorns@hushmail.com wrote:

That was very restrained Patrick, what no top 100 reasons you hate
Lance Gooberman list? 😉

If I remember your little speech right bro, Richard Resnick was a
wonderful doctor who is being persecuted for helping people and Lance
Gooberman should be cut into little pieces. Resnick gave you a lot of
drugs and all you got from Gooberman were 2 lousy urods 😉

Bro, you and Brett, Randy, some others here and that includes me,
should start a I was abused by treatment pimps list.

Speaking of which, I’m asking very politely without any stress or
anything, that Mindvox system, you remember it? Will it open any time
soon, it all seems to be there now. It all seems to have been there
since November bro, what’s the deal?

What I’m dying to know because you never answer, what is it like to
do that much acid? You and JT now. you credit ibogaine for the detox
but give all cred to LSD for letting you rearrange your head. Now I’m
real curious because I don’t like tripping that much, I would have
never done acid before doing ibogaine but now when I think about it
I’ve lost a lot of my fear and would like to try again. Not some
whopping dose but 3 or 4 hits.

Peace out,
Curtis

__________________________________________________
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From: crownofthorns@hushmail.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine question seattle
Date: January 3, 2003 at 10:12:39 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

That was very restrained Patrick, what no top 100 reasons you hate Lance Gooberman list? 😉

If I remember your little speech right bro, Richard Resnick was a wonderful doctor who is being persecuted for helping people and Lance Gooberman should be cut into little pieces. Resnick gave you a lot of drugs and all you got from Gooberman were 2 lousy urods 😉

Bro, you and Brett, Randy, some others here and that includes me, should start a I was abused by treatment pimps list.

Speaking of which, I’m asking very politely without any stress or anything, that Mindvox system, you remember it? Will it open any time soon, it all seems to be there now. It all seems to have been there since November bro, what’s the deal?

What I’m dying to know because you never answer, what is it like to do that much acid? You and JT now. you credit ibogaine for the detox but give all cred to LSD for letting you rearrange your head. Now I’m real curious because I don’t like tripping that much, I would have never done acid before doing ibogaine but now when I think about it I’ve lost a lot of my fear and would like to try again. Not some whopping dose but 3 or 4 hits.

Peace out,
Curtis

On Thu, 02 Jan 2003 14:35:03 -0800 “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> wrote:
On [Wed, Jan 01, 2003 at 03:24:59PM -0800], [Xiang Lee Chen] wrote:

| Thank you, my questions then would be if you don’t
| believe in the 12 steps then why did dr. mash say that
| you take people to meetings sometime?

Well, because no matter which of my realities they’re culled from,
it
seems that nearly everyone I know is either on drugs, trying to
get off
drugs, or skidding back and forth.  While it is entirely possible
to do
everything your own way, for most people it just reaches the stage
of,
“well, ya know, it’s been 6 months, I’m really not seeing any magic
happening here, hanging around with me is not sufficient to save
you from
yourself, I’m not a treatment pimp who is leeching flow off you
and I can
no longer deal with 25 phone calls a day whenever you’re having
a crisis.
Here’s a meeting, it’s completely filled with people bitching about
shit,
so spread the codependence around.  Good luck with all that.”

It’s also important to give the people in my local “recovery community”
(aka: the Legion of Hall Monitors on Crack), new material every
so often
so they can talk shit amongst themselves and exclaim, “yeah mahn,
I saw
Patrick at a meeting, he sat in the back and was all fucked up and
relapsed.”  And this still blows my mind.  That I can talk to someone
in
“recovery” who will rattle off a list of places I have theoretically
been
seen, meetings I went to, and things I “shared.”  It’s like, who
the fuck
are you people, I don’t hang out with any of you — ever, why do
you even
know that I exist much less keep track of my imaginary comings and
goings.
I hate that shit.

Anyway, basically, I occasionally drag people to 12-step meetings
because
I don’t have any other place to take them to.  There is — in theory

some sort of SMART meeting around here, but I’ve never found it
… on the
flipside I’ve never really looked.  Perhaps I should.

| My other
| question would be then do you feel lsd therapy and
| psychedelics are useful for helping people get
| abstinence from hard drugs?

Uhm . . . well, absolutely and yes.  Plus, also, not really, and
probably
not.

A pivotal moment for me was ’bout 2 years ago when a guy I was friends
with — who actually was in traditional “recovery,” working the
steps,
going to therapy, all that shit — asked me to get him acid.  And
the
conversation was reasonable, it just amounted to “I want what you
have,
help me get there.”  And I was going to, then I thought about it,
then I
thought about it a lot, passed it through the Purple Shit(TM)(SM)(Patent
Pending), and took a pass.

My conclusion at the time was, if I could hypothetically help you
get
acid, then you go and take it, find God, realign your entire universe,
and
live happier ever after…  Well, that’s highly groovy.  But, see,
if on
the flipside, you take acid, wreck your car, and take off on a 2
month
long crack run…  Then I just set all of that into play.  And I
mean, no
*I* didn’t do any of that, he would have, but I really don’t need
the
karma either way, whatever you’re looking for I cannot imagine it’ll
take
you longer than a few hours to find it, so good luck, you really
don’t
need me for that.

And what he wound up doing was blowing out, and the downward spiral
is
still going, he has not pulled back out of it.  Could it have been
avoided
if he’d had the chance to do acid… probably not, and I would be
left
holding the bag and wondering if I’m the reason all of that happened.

Without LSD, I personally, may or may not have made it.  Anything
is
possible, but let’s say I would strongly bet against it.  I also
went
somewhere where the actions I was taking were regarded as highly
positive
and full of great merit; people did not have a problem with the
fact that
I left the planet and wasn’t gonna be landing for a few months.

Had I done what I did in the United States, it would have taken
a few days
at most for some helpful person to have me Baker-acted; I would
have come
back to earth in a straitjacket, hosed down with sedatives and
neuroleptics, and then been dumped into some perpetual long-term
endless
circle-jerk of bullshit “therapeutic community” where they’d let
me out on
the playground to smoke a cigarette if I behaved really well.

I wanted reintegration; I got it.  Had I done it in the United States,
I
would have gotten some idiot jotting down a few paragraphs in my
medical
records, describing what I did as yet another manifestation of my
lifelong
drug problem.

What I’m saying is: it wouldn’t have worked out the same way.  Very
wrong
setting.

I absolutely believe that entheogens used with the proper context,
set,
setting, alla that, can provide a tremendous boost to nearly everyone.
The proper set, setting, and intent is prolly not handing someone
acid at
a rave.  What I mostly see is people turning entheogens into an
excuse to
go off and do whatever it is that they wanna do anyway (heroin or
crack).
Left to their own devices, they turn it all to shit.

All of this sorta loops back to where it begins…  I can’t make
a
generalization about what <any given drug-dependent individual>
should do.
Everyone is different.  I do not know where to send people who need
aftercare, but don’t want the 12-step crap.  Going to an ashram
is mostly
not going to work out.  If you go somewhere very straight, then
wander
around and talk about how much you wanna smoke crack all day…
Well,
it’s not gonna help you very much, and it’s unlikely that anyone
else
there will understand what you’re going through.  If you go to a
space
where drug use is accepted; there is a very high chance that in
addition
to entheogens, there’s also gonna be all the materials you are trying
to
avoid.  Will most people make the scenario work…?  Nope.

Will most people pick up self-help books like the SMART materials
and try
to figure out how to help themselves?  Nope.  Will most people do
*anything* except stay clean by force of will for a few days or
weeks,
then go back to doing <whatever>?  Nope.

The problem with all of this is that “drug treatment” sucks.  Period.
You
mostly have either a collection of pinheads with theories, who have
never
done any drugs and have no idea how “addiction” works, and then
on the
other side you have — with some few exceptions — the dumbest and
most
fucked up; by which I mean to say doctors who are perpetually <this
close>
to losing their license, and have lots and lots of experience with
drugs,
plus, also, the One True Answer to everything.  In other words:
whatever
they did to clean up (if they happen to actually be clean).  This
is
nearly always the 12 steps.

I gotta go, this is getting long, but to sum it all up: from what
I can
see of your web page, you are some program that students take classes
in,
which tries to help street people get basic medical care, new syringes,

condoms, shit like that.

The main set of problems that *most* of the people you deal with
are going
to have; is that they’re broke, out on the street, have no skills,
no
friends, and no hope.  Many of them will be mentally ill, and
self-medicating with narcotic analgesics works a fuckova lot better
than
doing neuroleptics for most things, especially schizophrenia.

Drug dependence is their solution, not their problem.  Even if you
could
dose them all with ibogaine and then follow it up with some other
kind of
entheogen-assisted therapy…  Nearly all of them will be right
back where
they started, given a week or two tops.

On the flipside, a few will fly over the cuckoo’s nest and loop
out of
that spiral.  Go figure.

laters,

Patrick

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From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] DEA Discourages Addicts From Seeking Treatment While Collecting Evidence Against Them
Date: January 3, 2003 at 6:36:59 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: Tom Angell
To: drugwar@mindvox.com ; maptalk@mapinc.org
Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 3:19 PM
Subject: [drugwar] DEA Discourages Addicts From Seeking Treatment While
Collecting Evidence Against Them

Pubdate: Fri, 03 Jan 2003
Source: Boston Globe (MA)
Copyright: 2003 Globe Newspaper Company
Contact: letter@globe.com
Website: http://www.boston.com/globe/
Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/52
Author: Thanassis Cambanis, Globe Staff

DRUG WAR DILEMMA

US Criticized For Discouraging Addicts From Seeking Treatment While
Collecting Evidence Against Them

Carol Bradley always talked about her desire to quit drugs, even when she
was dealing crack to an undercover federal agent and her other customers
would break into her Plymouth apartment to smoke on her couch.

Ultimately, Bradley says, she did kick her drug habit at a halfway house in
Western Massachusetts while federal prosecutors prepared a drug trafficking
indictment against her. But wiretap transcripts showed that the Drug
Enforcement Administration task force agent who made six undercover buys
from Bradley actively discouraged her from going to treatment programs,
saying they “never work.”

Her unusual case highlights the debate over when treatment should enter law
enforcement’s war on drugs. The federal agents and prosecutors who sought a
four-to five-year prison term for Bradley say they pursue serious dealers
who destroy the communities in which they peddle narcotics; in prison, they
argue, dealers have all the time they need to seek treatment.

However, defense lawyers and drug law critics believe Bradley’s case points
to a system that is sometimes too rigid and harsh. They believe that agents
and prosecutors should encourage addicts to seek treatment, rather than
simply build the strongest possible case against them.

“It’s unconscionable to have government agents discouraging addicts from
getting help so they can continue to amass evidence against these people,”
said federal defender Tamar R. Birckhead, who represented Bradley and cited
the case as exposing an Achilles’ heel in the federal war on drugs.

But Gerard T. Leone, the first assistant US attorney for Massachusetts, said
that federal sentencing guidelines take into account whether a drug offender
is trying to break free of an addiction. It’s not the role of the drug agent
or prosecutor to serve as a conduit for treatment, Leone said.

“If what compels someone to sell drugs is a habit and not desire for profit,
should we sympathize with them and give them a break?” Leone said. “If
there’s a kid who’s getting crack, I don’t care whether the person who’s
selling it to them has a problem.”

By the time Bradley had been indicted on drug trafficking charges two years
ago, she had been living sober for nearly a year at Beacon House for Women
in Greenfield. At her sentencing in July, Senior US Judge Edward F.
Harrington – over the objections of prosecutors – tossed aside sentencing
guidelines that would have required him to send Bradley to jail for four to
five years, instead of giving her probation.

The sentence was officially based on Bradley’s “exceptional rehabilitation,”
but Bradley’s lawyer also emphasized the undercover agent’s disparaging
comments about treatment.

“This was a textbook example of someone committing a crime to support her
habit and who wanted with every ounce of her being to kick that habit,”
Birckhead said.

Meanwhile, Bradley, 37, says she has turned with zeal toward recovery; she
now does landscaping and maintenance for Beacon House, where she has lived
for the better part of three years.

She is more concerned about her upcoming move next week to a sober house in
nearby Turners Falls than about her federal case. Since age 14, Bradley
said, she has struggled with addiction to alcohol, heroin, and cocaine. Even
when faced with the prospect of jail this year, Bradley refused to work
undercover for federal agents to ensnare her former suppliers, afraid she
would start taking drugs again if she returned to her old haunts.

Bradley blames herself for the drugs she sold. “I know I was kind of
manipulated into selling because of my problem, but I did it and I was
guilty,” she said. “Somebody could have bought some drugs from me and died.”

Still, it vexes her that the undercover agent she knew by the code name
“Whitey” – and, as she sees it, a law enforcement culture that treats all
drug offenders the same – felt no responsibility to help her.

“Even in the condition I was in, they knew I was reaching for help. I don’t
know what the rules are, but they didn’t need to say that rehab doesn’t
work,” Bradley said recently.

A state trooper working undercover for the DEA bought a total of 9.11 grams
of crack from Bradley on six occasions between September 1999 and January
2000. He often met Bradley at her Court Street apartment in Plymouth, where
she watched football games with customers and tried to keep the beige
carpets vacuumed.

“People always said it was the cleanest crack house in town,” Bradley said.

In one recorded conversation, Bradley told the agent she had just finished
25 days of rehab. Rehabitation programs “never work, don’t waste your time,”
the agent replied.

In a later conversation, Bradley told the agent she’d been through seven
drug detoxification programs.

“The important thing to keep in mind is that the agent is playing a role,”
DEA spokesman Anthony Pettigrew said. “He’s talking in a jargon that the
target understands.”

At one point, the undercover agent offers to drive Bradley to a detox
program. The agent’s job, Pettigrew said, was to make drug purchases from
Bradley, not to steer her toward a drug treatment program. Still, he added,
the agent did not “in total” discourage her from seeking treatment.

By the time the war on drugs makes it to the federal court system, cases are
usually cut-and-dried. Deals are usually caught on tape, and sentences are
determined by the quantity and kind of drug. Addicts charged with
trafficking usually make a first attempt to stop using drugs only after
they’ve been accused of a crime.

That was not the case with Bradley. On Jan. 26, 2000, Bradley made her last
crack sale – to the undercover agent. The next day she moved across the
state to Greenfield and checked into Beacon House. That’s where federal
agents found her in September 2000, when they unsealed a grand jury
indictment against her.

At an unusual sentencing hearing on July 24, more than a dozen family
members and people who knew Bradley from Beacon House packed the courtroom.
They had already flooded Harrington with letters about Bradley’s impact on
their lives and their own attempts to kick drinking problems and drug
habits. Prosecutors fought for Bradley to serve at least four years and
three months in prison.

“The record shows that she was planning to combat her addiction at the same
time she was peddling narcotics,” Assistant US Attorney Rachel E. Hershfang
argued. “This is not a woman who, desperate for the money to support her
addiction, made an occasional drug sale.”

Harrington, however, found that Bradley had exhibited “extraordinary
rehabilitation,” and prosecutors chose not to appeal his decision.

Although she doesn’t expect federal agents to spend all their time pushing
drug addicts toward recovery programs, Bradley said she wishes they would
give it more thought.

Dealers in Bradley’s situation might deserve compassion, Leone said, but
they also need to be taken off the streets.

“In her case, the Plymouth Police Department identified drug-related
activity that was a destructive and destabilizing influence on public
housing projects,” Leone said. “Carol Bradley was part of a conspiracy that
we saw as ruining quality of life in a community.”

Still, defense lawyer Martin G. Weinberg said Bradley’s case reflected a
broader problem with federal law enforcement’s approach to drug crime.

“The DEA’s job is to apprehend offenders, not to create seductive
opportunities for undisciplined people to commit crimes they would not
otherwise have committed,” he said.

And, Weinberg argued, strict federal sentencing guidelines “extinguish the
difference between the violent offender who has never done anything positive
for society and a hard-working, nonviolent, essentially decent person who
has committed a crime for which he has accepted responsibility.”

Bradley’s new room in Turners Falls is sparsely decorated; her friends at
Beacon House have given her a small stone engraved with one word –
“Remember” – and she has five CDs to play on her portable stereo. As she
prepares to start living independently again, Bradley said she sees hope in
her story and in a system that defied her expectations to provide another
chance.

Every night, she calls the pretrial services office in Springfield to see if
she’s scheduled for a drug test. She has regular meetings with her parole
officer. If she relapses, she knows she could end up in a federal prison.

“It could happen to anyone,” Bradley said of her struggle with drugs. “I
wanted a better life, and I’ve found one.”

From: MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca>
Subject: [ibogaine] Ibogaine article in Vancouver’s Georgia Straight, this is the ARTICLE
Date: January 3, 2003 at 5:45:03 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: Dana Larsen <muggles2@cannabisculture.com>, Steve Kubby <steve@kubby.com>, chris@pot-tv.news
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This is the article from the current Vancouver Georgia Straight, please
circulate it around:

http://www.straight.com/editorial/health.php

Ibogaine a One-Way Trip to Sobriety, Pot Head Says

By Gail Johnson
Mark “Atomos” Pilon Illustration

Marc Emery may not have made it to the mayor’s chair,
but the head of the B.C. Marijuana Party has plenty of
other ventures to keep him busy. Besides running a
seed-distribution business, the peace and pot activist
has started a new project that he’s especially
passionate about, one he says can cure cocaine and
heroin addiction at a low price.

He’s the man behind the Iboga Therapy House, a place
he has rented on the Sunshine Coast that overlooks the
ocean and where drug addicts can go for ibogaine
treatment.

Ibogaine comes from Tabernanthe iboga, a flowering
African shrub that’s related to the coffee plant. In
some parts of West Africa, it’s a hallucinogen used in
male rites of passage. Iboga is said to induce wild
visualizations, be nonaddictive, and have
anti-addictive qualities.

Advocates allege that one or two doses is enough to
cure addiction, whether it’s to crack cocaine, heroin,
alcohol, or nicotine. Unlike methadone, which is
itself addictive, ibogaine does not produce painful
withdrawal symptoms.

Emery, who started treating addicts from the Downtown
Eastside two months ago, covers the costs, which
amount to about $1,500 per person. He takes in up to
four addicts per week and has administered oral doses
of ibogaine himself to nearly a dozen people. It’s the
first such program in North America.

“This could be a very effective way of treating people
at a very low cost,” he told the Straight on the line
from the Sunshine Coast. “People who have been through
opiate withdrawal are amazed. They don’t have a
dripping nose, there’s no nausea..This has been a
revelatory experience. I’m hoping the government will
pick it up.”

Though not approved by Health Canada, ibogaine is not
a prohibited product under the Controlled Drugs and
Substances Act, Emery noted. The substance is illegal
in the United States, but it’s available through an
international black market, and there are private
clinics in the Caribbean and Panama City. “It’s an
underground phenomenon all over the world,” said
Emery, who orders ibogaine from Ontario, Slovenia, and
Holland.

One of the alleged benefits of ibogaine is that it
doesn’t cause the horrible flulike side effects that
people withdrawing from heroin or cocaine typically
endure, such as diarrhea, cramps, anxiety, and muscle
twitches. However, some preclinical studies have
indicated that the substance could cause lasting
damage to the cerebellum, leading to loss of motor
coordination.

The use of ibogaine to treat addiction got its first
push from Howard Lotsof, an American who patented the
therapy. He’s credited with recording initial
observations of the effects of ibogaine on heroin
addicts who took the substance to get high in the
mid-1960s. (Lotsof was one of them.)

Lotsof tried to go beyond anecdotal evidence by
conducting preclinical research. He approached
pharmaceutical companies to back his efforts, but none
responded-likely because of the lack of potential
profit, since the medicine is usually taken only once.
He pushed for the Food and Drug Administration’s
approval of clinical trials, but that plan fell apart
in 1993, when a 24-year-old heroin user died about 20
hours after taking ibogaine. (Two other addicts have
also died following ibogaine treatment.) The therapy
has its critics, like American drug researcher Peter
Hoyle, who, according to a recent High Times article,
doesn’t think there’s enough evidence to warrant human
trials-especially since the mechanism of ibogaine’s
action isn’t understood.

Without any official stamp of approval, Lotsof
continues research and treatment (mainly in Holland).
He recently cowrote a revised Manual for Ibogaine
Therapy: Screening, Safety, Monitoring & Aftercare,
which cautions that “treatment providers and patients
are solely responsible for their actions.”

“The extremely costly regulatory approval process and
the reluctance by major pharmaceutical firms to pursue
regulatory approval in the West has led to the
formation of non-medical ibogaine treatment,” the
manual says. “This document is intended principally
for lay-healers who have little or no medical
experience, but who are nevertheless concerned with
patient safety and the outcome of Ibogaine
treatments.”

Lotsof urges caregivers to insist that people have a
complete physical, including an electrocardiogram,
before treatment. Emery has studied that document as
well as others on the Ibogaine Dossier Web site
(www.ibogaine.org/), which has opinions and
information related to the treatment.

Emery said he-or another of the “facilitators” at the
Iboga Therapy House who are trained in first
aid-observes people for about 24 hours after the
administration of ibogaine and monitors their blood
pressure and pulse regularly. Emery added that the
hospital is a 10-minute drive away and that all
candidates have to sign a medical-release form.

Anyone is welcome, Emery said, as long as they stop
taking drugs for 24 hours before treatment. He said he
recommends two doses, about a week apart, to prevent a
relapse. “Typically the first dose cancels the
physical addiction,” Emery said, “and the second
targets the psychological underpinnings of addiction.”

Emery, who’s never taken ibogaine himself, said the
substance can cause intense visualizations lasting
eight to 18 hours. He also said that because of the
lack of withdrawal symptoms, ibogaine can help addicts
address other issues. “Being an addict can be a great
excuse in a financial or emotional crisis,” he noted.
“This gives them the strength and courage to face
their problems without giving in to their weaknesses.
They have an opportunity to reinvent themselves, so
they need to stay away from triggers or temptation.”

The Iboga Therapy House has fitness equipment,
instruments, games like crib and chess, and a
meditation room-anything that “gives people pleasure
that doesn’t involve drugs”, Emery said-but no TV.
Emery, who doesn’t accept money from addicts unless
they want to donate after they’ve been clean for at
least three months, said he’d like to see the
treatment made available to all Vancouver addicts, who
can contact him via the Vancouver Area Network of Drug
Users (604-683-8595).

He added that he hasn’t encountered any opposition to
the ibogaine project yet. “I’ve never run into
critics,” he said, “because there’s nothing to
criticize.”

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine article in Vancouver’s Georgia Straight
Date: January 3, 2003 at 9:38:49 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

There is a very favourable article about ibogaine therapy and the Iboga
Therapy House in the current Georgia Straight (Jan. 2 – 8),in the Health
section by Gail Johnson. The Georgia Straight publishes over 100,000 copies
each week.

Titled ‘Ibogaine a One-Way Trip to Sobriety, Pot Head says, facetious title
notwithstanding, the article nonetheless is all accurate and details our
Iboga Therapy House and information on ibogaine taken from ibogaine dossier
off the net. On the cover is a small headline ‘also featuring a NEW
TREATMENT FOR ADDICTS’.

I don’t think they are on-line, and the article is about 2,000 words, but
I’ll see if it is available somewhere.

Marc Emery

Did the article make it into MAPinc? You must tell Richard Lake.

Dana/cnw

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Ibogaine mentioned in article/book
Date: January 3, 2003 at 9:25:29 AM EST
To: ibogaine@ibogaine.org, ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.campaignfortruth.com/Eclub/170502/dreamexcerptfrommindgame.htm

Dream with Me for a Moment
An excerpt from Phillip Day’s new book “The Mind Game”
Due for release through Credence, July 2002

“Predictably, psychiatry was to pioneer another drug
to cure the methadone problem. This time ‘ibogaine’
became the hope for an end to the addictions, which
psychiatry itself had brokered. However ibogaine’s
notorious reputation gained it a Class 1 regulation
(dangerous and of no medical value) and treatment with
it was outlawed in the United States. Bruce Wiseman
sums up:

“The lessons of heroin and methadone have been poorly
learned by our mental health experts. Most drug
addicts already feel they are in a netherworld from
which there may be no return and, so far, these
experts and their experimental cures have only led
them deeper into it.”

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine article in Vancouver’s Georgia Straight ARTICLE
Date: January 3, 2003 at 9:09:23 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Article below

One question;

“However, some preclinical studies have indicated that
the substance could cause lasting damage to the
cerebellum, leading to loss of motor coordination”

Show me the study that says HUMANS getting HUMAN DOSES
that are administered orally (eg 25mg/kg or less) have
shown the slightest indication of any brain damage
whatsoever. Not rats injected with ultra high (ie
2/3rds of a lethal dose), normal doses of ibogaine
given orally – which is less toxic than injected. Show
me any indication that of the millions of people who
have done ibogaine (including the president of Gabon)
there is anyone showing brain damage from ibogaine.
Show me where too little or too much oxygen doesn’t
cause brain damage… Just a point, anything can be
toxic in the wrong amounts or in the wrong place. IN
fact harmaline (a closely related drug) does the very
same thing (excitotoxic reaction) and will cause the
very same brain damage that ibogaine does – IN TOXIC
DOSES, that is why you don’t hear of millions of
people with brain damage from drinking ayahuasca
brew… duh.

That little piece of “information” came from Molliver

Why it causes brain damage

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9348351&dopt=Abstract

Ibogaine neurotoxicity: a re-evaluation.

Molinari HH, Maisonneuve IM, Glick SD.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=8930373&dopt=Abstract

“The present study re-examined cerebellar responses to
the high doses of ibogaine used by O’Hearn and
Molliver (100 mg/kg or 3 x 100 mg/kg) and sought to
determine whether a lower dose (40 mg/kg), one
effective in reducing morphine and cocaine
self-administration, produced similar responses…..In
marked contrast, rats given the smaller dose of
ibogaine displayed no degeneration above the level
seen in saline-treated animals. When combined with
information on other compounds, these data suggest
that the degenerative and “anti-addictive’ properties
of ibogaine reflect different actions of the drug.”

Lets say that again “In marked contrast, rats given
the smaller dose of ibogaine displayed no degeneration
above the level seen in saline-treated animals”  That
is 40mg delivered I.P. not 20-25mg delivered orally, a
much less toxic and safer amount and route of
delivery.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=10966515&dopt=Abstract

A dose-response study of ibogaine-induced
neuropathology in the rat cerebellum.

Xu Z, Chang LW, Slikker W Jr, Ali SF, Rountree RL,
Scallet AC.

“These observations affirm the usefulness of GFAP
immunohistochemistry as a sensitive biomarker of
neurotoxicity. None of the sections from the 25-mg/kg
rats, however stained, were distinguishable from
saline controls, indicating that this dose level may
be considered as a no-observable-adverse-effect level
(NOAEL).”

Humans take 25mg/kg max for addiction, far higher in
Bwiti rituals, there has been no sign of any “brain
damage” and testing at lower dosages in rats, dogs,
primates even at repeated dosages did not show any
indication of brain damage.

Any questions?

Brett

http://www.straight.com/editorial/health.php

Ibogaine a One-Way Trip to Sobriety, Pot Head Says

By Gail Johnson
Mark “Atomos” Pilon Illustration

Marc Emery may not have made it to the mayor’s chair,
but the head of the B.C. Marijuana Party has plenty of
other ventures to keep him busy. Besides running a
seed-distribution business, the peace and pot activist
has started a new project that he’s especially
passionate about, one he says can cure cocaine and
heroin addiction at a low price.

He’s the man behind the Iboga Therapy House, a place
he has rented on the Sunshine Coast that overlooks the
ocean and where drug addicts can go for ibogaine
treatment.

Ibogaine comes from Tabernanthe iboga, a flowering
African shrub that’s related to the coffee plant. In
some parts of West Africa, it’s a hallucinogen used in
male rites of passage. Iboga is said to induce wild
visualizations, be nonaddictive, and have
anti-addictive qualities.

Advocates allege that one or two doses is enough to
cure addiction, whether it’s to crack cocaine, heroin,
alcohol, or nicotine. Unlike methadone, which is
itself addictive, ibogaine does not produce painful
withdrawal symptoms.

Emery, who started treating addicts from the Downtown
Eastside two months ago, covers the costs, which
amount to about $1,500 per person. He takes in up to
four addicts per week and has administered oral doses
of ibogaine himself to nearly a dozen people. It’s the
first such program in North America.

“This could be a very effective way of treating people
at a very low cost,” he told the Straight on the line
from the Sunshine Coast. “People who have been through
opiate withdrawal are amazed. They don’t have a
dripping nose, there’s no nausea.
This has been a
revelatory experience. I’m hoping the government will
pick it up.”

Though not approved by Health Canada, ibogaine is not
a prohibited product under the Controlled Drugs and
Substances Act, Emery noted. The substance is illegal
in the United States, but it’s available through an
international black market, and there are private
clinics in the Caribbean and Panama City. “It’s an
underground phenomenon all over the world,” said
Emery, who orders ibogaine from Ontario, Slovenia, and
Holland.

One of the alleged benefits of ibogaine is that it
doesn’t cause the horrible flulike side effects that
people withdrawing from heroin or cocaine typically
endure, such as diarrhea, cramps, anxiety, and muscle
twitches. However, some preclinical studies have
indicated that the substance could cause lasting
damage to the cerebellum, leading to loss of motor
coordination.

The use of ibogaine to treat addiction got its first
push from Howard Lotsof, an American who patented the
therapy. He’s credited with recording initial
observations of the effects of ibogaine on heroin
addicts who took the substance to get high in the
mid-1960s. (Lotsof was one of them.)

Lotsof tried to go beyond anecdotal evidence by
conducting preclinical research. He approached
pharmaceutical companies to back his efforts, but none
responded—likely because of the lack of potential
profit, since the medicine is usually taken only once.
He pushed for the Food and Drug Administration’s
approval of clinical trials, but that plan fell apart
in 1993, when a 24-year-old heroin user died about 20
hours after taking ibogaine. (Two other addicts have
also died following ibogaine treatment.) The therapy
has its critics, like American drug researcher Peter
Hoyle, who, according to a recent High Times article,
doesn’t think there’s enough evidence to warrant human
trials—especially since the mechanism of ibogaine’s
action isn’t understood.

Without any official stamp of approval, Lotsof
continues research and treatment (mainly in Holland).
He recently cowrote a revised Manual for Ibogaine
Therapy: Screening, Safety, Monitoring & Aftercare,
which cautions that “treatment providers and patients
are solely responsible for their actions.”

“The extremely costly regulatory approval process and
the reluctance by major pharmaceutical firms to pursue
regulatory approval in the West has led to the
formation of non-medical ibogaine treatment,” the
manual says. “This document is intended principally
for lay-healers who have little or no medical
experience, but who are nevertheless concerned with
patient safety and the outcome of Ibogaine
treatments.”

Lotsof urges caregivers to insist that people have a
complete physical, including an electrocardiogram,
before treatment. Emery has studied that document as
well as others on the Ibogaine Dossier Web site
(www.ibogaine.org/), which has opinions and
information related to the treatment.

Emery said he—or another of the “facilitators” at the
Iboga Therapy House who are trained in first
aid—observes people for about 24 hours after the
administration of ibogaine and monitors their blood
pressure and pulse regularly. Emery added that the
hospital is a 10-minute drive away and that all
candidates have to sign a medical-release form.

Anyone is welcome, Emery said, as long as they stop
taking drugs for 24 hours before treatment. He said he
recommends two doses, about a week apart, to prevent a
relapse. “Typically the first dose cancels the
physical addiction,” Emery said, “and the second
targets the psychological underpinnings of addiction.”

Emery, who’s never taken ibogaine himself, said the
substance can cause intense visualizations lasting
eight to 18 hours. He also said that because of the
lack of withdrawal symptoms, ibogaine can help addicts
address other issues. “Being an addict can be a great
excuse in a financial or emotional crisis,” he noted.
“This gives them the strength and courage to face
their problems without giving in to their weaknesses.
They have an opportunity to reinvent themselves, so
they need to stay away from triggers or temptation.”

The Iboga Therapy House has fitness equipment,
instruments, games like crib and chess, and a
meditation room—anything that “gives people pleasure
that doesn’t involve drugs”, Emery said—but no TV.
Emery, who doesn’t accept money from addicts unless
they want to donate after they’ve been clean for at
least three months, said he’d like to see the
treatment made available to all Vancouver addicts, who
can contact him via the Vancouver Area Network of Drug
Users (604-683-8595).

He added that he hasn’t encountered any opposition to
the ibogaine project yet. “I’ve never run into
critics,” he said, “because there’s nothing to
criticize.”

— MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca> wrote:
There is a very favourable article about ibogaine
therapy and the Iboga
Therapy House in the current Georgia Straight (Jan.
2 – 8),in the Health
section by Gail Johnson. The Georgia Straight
publishes over 100,000 copies
each week.

Titled ‘Ibogaine a One-Way Trip to Sobriety, Pot
Head says, facetious title
notwithstanding, the article nonetheless is all
accurate and details our
Iboga Therapy House and information on ibogaine
taken from ibogaine dossier
off the net. On the cover is a small headline ‘also
featuring a NEW
TREATMENT FOR ADDICTS’.

I don’t think they are on-line, and the article is
about 2,000 words, but
I’ll see if it is available somewhere.

Marc Emery

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] State given list of patient prescriptions, but not for law enforcement
Date: January 3, 2003 at 8:17:54 AM EST
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Cc: “CRRH” <restore@crrh.org>, <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/lv-gov/2003/jan/02/514462823.html
State given list of patient prescriptions, but not for law enforcement

By Cy Ryan
<cy@lasvegassun.com> and Judy Odierna
<judy@lasvegassun.com>
LAS VEGAS SUN
Every month Nevada pharmacists transmit to the state the names of people who
have purchased painkillers and other potentially addictive drugs prescribed
by doctors — and that information is available to law enforcement
officials.
Nevada is one of 17 states in which police are able to collect the
information under the auspices of a federal program that has pharmacists
file regular reports that include patients’ names, the names of their
prescriptions, the amount of the medication they receive and the names of
their doctors. The states’ programs fall under the national umbrella of the
Prescription Drug Monitoring Program.
Nevada authorities say their system is different from those of other states
where the information is routinely funneled to police agencies.
“This is not used as a law enforcement tool,” said Louis Ling, attorney for
Nevada’s Prescription Controlled Substance Abuse Prevention Task Force.
That 15-member task force tracks everything from hard-core narcotics to
prescribed painkillers and anti-anxiety medication like the frequently
prescribed Xanax and Valium pills. It is composed of representatives from
boards that license doctors, veterinarians, dentists and pharmacists as well
as physicians who specialize in the treatment of addiction. One member is
from the Nevada Division of Investigations.
snip-
Peace,
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor at Large High Times mag/.com
“Prohibition creates an irresistibly lucrative
opportunity for entrepreneurs willing to operate
in illicit business. It is the policy
of idealists who cannot appreciate that the use
of drugs often reflects other sets of human
ideals: human perfectibility, the yearning
for a perfect moment, the peace that comes
from oblivion.” Richard Davenport-Hines

From: MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca>
Subject: [ibogaine] Ibogaine article in Vancouver’s Georgia Straight
Date: January 3, 2003 at 4:42:05 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

There is a very favourable article about ibogaine therapy and the Iboga
Therapy House in the current Georgia Straight (Jan. 2 – 8),in the Health
section by Gail Johnson. The Georgia Straight publishes over 100,000 copies
each week.

Titled ‘Ibogaine a One-Way Trip to Sobriety, Pot Head says, facetious title
notwithstanding, the article nonetheless is all accurate and details our
Iboga Therapy House and information on ibogaine taken from ibogaine dossier
off the net. On the cover is a small headline ‘also featuring a NEW
TREATMENT FOR ADDICTS’.

I don’t think they are on-line, and the article is about 2,000 words, but
I’ll see if it is available somewhere.

Marc Emery

From: Bill Ross <ross@cgl.ucsf.EDU>
Subject: [ibogaine] chemistry
Date: January 3, 2003 at 3:27:51 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Here’s something from a chemistry mail list:

I received an error saying
“eval.cc: ERROR! energy is infinite”

Bill

From: “Joshua Tinnin” <krinklyfig@myrealbox.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine question seattle
Date: January 3, 2003 at 12:17:10 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’d just like to add that LSD worked brilliantly for me for addiction,
although at the time that wasn’t my intention in taking it. Am not so sure
if it would work for other people like this without the person being ready
to accept the lessons revealed, and without the right set and setting, which
I was fortunate to have, even as the result was unintentional, if … dare I
say … miraculous. At the moment, that’s about all I am comfortable saying
about it publically. But am following up with other therapy, and will share
that and a bit more with the group in time.

– jt

—– Original Message —–
From: “MARC” <marc420emery@shaw.ca>

I have gotten suggestions that MDMA could be helpful after ibogaine, or DMT.

I have dosed more than 1,000 people in pure MDMA in my recent eight years,
and I have dosed over 200 people on DMT in the last 5 years (more than
anyone else I know), but I haven’t considered it an adjunct to the iboga
therapy yet.

I’m still exploring the vast potential and varieties of uses for the
ibogaine, so it will be a while before I consider powerful psychedelics as
part of therapy, if ever.

Marc Emery
Iboga Therapy House

—– Original Message —–
From: “Xiang Lee Chen” <xiangleechen@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 3:24 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine question seattle

Thank you, my questions then would be if you don’t
believe in the 12 steps then why did dr. mash say that
you take people to meetings sometime? My other
question would be then do you feel lsd therapy and
psychedelics are useful for helping people get
abstinence from hard drugs?

My question for Marc Emery of Iboga Therapy House is
do you plan to have any kind of spiritual use of
psychedelic drugs after the ibogaine?

Thank you

Xiang Chen
http://www.dom.washington.edu/sparx/

— “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> wrote:
On [Fri, Dec 27, 2002 at 05:52:01PM -0800], [Xiang
Lee Chen] wrote:

| what I have read on mindvox answers some questions
in
| parts but it’s not a sensibile whole. You are very
| very smart and write extremely well but it is like
you
| take pages and re arrange them in no right order.
I
| cannot follow, I think this is intentional but I
don’t
| understand mindvox at all except art, not
followable
| information

I’m just incoherent.

| My questions please.
|
| At Seattle when asked about the 12 steps you gave
a
| nice reply and said that upward of 50% of addicted
| persons who take ibogaine used the 12 steps. In
this
| issue of heroin times you are very negative about
12
| steps. I know you do not use them but you gave
very
| nice reply at talk, then wrote a article which
| completely invalidates them. I don’t understand.

What’s in “this issue” of Heroin Times, is sumthin’
I wrote ’bout 2 years
ago; he is simply recycling my material.  A lot of
that particular space
in time, is just me working out my shit and venting,
to sum it up, “HA!
Fuck all of you stupid fucking pieces of shit who
ripped me off, handed me
lead weights while I was drowning and attempted to
inflict psychological
damages on me while I was in an extremely vulnerable
state.  Who’s still
standing is me, and who has gone down in fucking
flames are 95% of the
weak-willed idiots who ever got in my face with
their bullshit.”

In short, it’s an emotional response that represents
my feelings about
being subjected to “drug treatment” and the comedy
routine known as rehab.
But that was a while ago, and it’s kinda like, okay,
the sun rose in the
east today, and the 12 steps still suck, so what
else is new.

The 12 steps are sumthin’ to do — other than drugs.
They’re extremely
old eastern concepts for dismantling ego, rewritten
and dumbed-down for
drug dependent individuals who are acclimated to
western culture.
Somewhere along the way, all of that turned into the
Cult of Eternal
Powerlessness where you can sit and spin, complain
about shit for all
eternity, and shine up the altar you’ve built to
your idealized former
self.

An organized alternative to the 12-steps, which many
people on this list
seem to find useful is SMART.  I’ve never done it
personally, but reading
through their spin control, I haven’t found much I
disagree with.

Uhm, I dunno their URL offhand, Randy does I’m sure.

| In JAMA article you are quoted as saying that on
| ibogaine you “went to hell and got killed 1000
times”
| which is same as you said at talk when you did
| ibogaines to detox from drugs, but at your talk
you
| gave very dark experiences but it was very funny
not
| like you would not do ibogaine again, you said you
| will do ibogaine again at talk. You also said
ibogaine
| very mild, not near as strong as LSD.

Yeah I did, it wasn’t much fun, but it certainly
didn’t deter me from
doing ibogaine again.  Ibogaine isn’t a very strong
“hallucinogen” it’s
equivalent to no more than roughly 300-500mcg of
LSD.  If the visions are
distressing, then just open your eyes, they will
recede.

This is both good and bad.  What it amounts to is
walking into the lobby
where a movie is playing, you can go sit in the
movie, or if you don’t
like it, you can wander back out and land right on,
“fuck this, it didn’t
work, I knew it wouldn’t, nothing ever does, where’s
my dealer at…”
Ibogaine isn’t strong enough to FORCE you to
confront anything, you can
avoid it.  On 3-5mg+ of LSD you really, REALLY do
not have that option.
Whether you decide you want it or not at that point,
you’re going.

On the flipside, LSD ain’t gonna do nothin’ ’bout
your habit.

| Thanks for talk and your time, for me you made it
much
| eaisier to understand difference between ultra
rapid
| and other detox and what ibogaine feel like, but
you
| confuse me with 12 step and if you like ibogaine
or
| not.

I like ibogaine, the 12-steps are something that
works out for some
people, and does damage to many more who are
subjected to this bullshit as
the “only answer,” to drug dependence, and confuse
their failure to get in
tune with this cult, as having anything whatsoever
to do with stepping out
of drug dependence.

What that means: if you actually WANT to get off
drugs, and the 12-steps
don’t work out for you, it does not mean you’re
damned, not ready, or
hopeless; it just means maybe you should find
something else to do.

Patrick

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] What I have found regarding ibogaine & crack cocaine
Date: January 2, 2003 at 7:29:19 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Mon, Dec 30, 2002 at 06:53:14PM -0800], [MARC] wrote:

| Also, I have this plant extract called Kratom I want to experiment on
| crystal meth addicts (they actually don’t want to quit either, its the
| finances) and for bringing methadone users down to lower levels.

What’s in “Kratom” tends to vary, but primarily it’s mitragynine.  Where I
was at they also toss ayahausca into the mix.  What it appears to do for
speed freaks, is not a fucking thing.  The current generation of kids
around Bangkok are mostly developing problems with methamphetamine “yabba”
which costs ’bout .03 cents for a fix there.  Heroin is that shit the old
people do.

Anywaze, Kratom doesn’t appear to do much of anything.  They noticed this
a while back and added “herbal tablets” into the mix they throw at people.
You scrape the layer of herbal crap off the tablet, and what you’re
holding is a Rohypnol 2.  For some strange reason when you dose speeding
kids with 4mg of roofies, they calm right now.  Who would think.

The one thing I would suggest is having a lot of Tums around.  Kratom has
a pH roughly similar to battery acid.  Ouch.

If you experience anything even vaguely approaching positive results
using kratom on speed freaks, that’d be interesting.

Patrick

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine question seattle
Date: January 2, 2003 at 7:01:17 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Mon, Dec 30, 2002 at 02:57:51PM -0800], [Brett Calabrese] wrote:

| Ibogaine isn’t a very strong
| > “hallucinogen” it’s
| > equivalent to no more than roughly 300-500mcg of
| > LSD.  If the visions are
| > distressing, then just open your eyes, they will
| > recede.
|
| > Ibogaine isn’t strong enough to FORCE you to
| > confront anything, you can
| > avoid it.  On 3-5mg+ of LSD you really, REALLY do
| > not have that option.
| > Whether you decide you want it or not at that point,
| > you’re going.
|
| Ummmm, Patrick that is not fair. While I agree that
| ibogaine is not as psychadelic as LSD you are
| comparing normal ibogaine doses with super-normal LSD
| doses – not regular LSD doses. Maybe you should do
| 40-50mg I.P. or 100mg/KG orally – what is that about
| 10gm or so of HCL for you orally??? which are also
| more in-line with ritual dosages of ibogaine. Then
| maybe you will find ibogaine to be “strong”… They
| don’t use the term “crack the skull” for nothing (lol)

Okay, you go first!  I’m right behind you.  In fact, since I like you a
lot, I’ll operate the crash cart and make sure that Useful Things are
actually on hand and stuff.  Besides, research conclusively demonstrates
that brain damage is good for you; being smart only gives you many more
options for making yourself miserable.

NeXT on the MindVox Channel: Do-it-yourself open heart surgery, with your
host, Brett Calabrese!

Brett: “Okay, well, see, first you need to get some supplies.  Assorted
scalpels are great, but if you can’t find those, really good Ginsu knives
and some X-acto knives from any hobby shop will do the trick.  Have a few
gallons of Fentanyl around just in case you need it, and some towels or
rags; fluids FLY out of everything when you really get going.  Plus,
also, try to sterilize stuff.  Oh yeah, before I forget, get a mirror or
something.  Now then, we begin the procedure by dosing ourselves with
2-3gms of ibogaine.  I’m not sure this helps anything, but it sure puts me
in a good mood!  Next…”

zo0m =)
Patrick

From: “CCadden” <elgrekkko@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: Ancient Amazon Brew Comes to Colombia’s Cities
Date: January 2, 2003 at 6:54:56 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

it’s got this curative power which i don’t understand, but i can defnitely see it tackling an addiction. it seems to be an adaptogen, like ginseng, where it goes to and nourishes the parts of your physiology that need it the most. also, if you set your will towards accomplishing something at the outset  of the trip, it will help you get it. i was going to use it to attack my nicotine addiction for this very reason.

chris

—– Original Message —–
From: preston peet
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 5:39 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: Ancient Amazon Brew Comes to Colombia’s Cities

“simply Yage”? Hmmm.;-))
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: David Minick
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 5:11 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: Ancient Amazon Brew Comes to Colombia’s Cities

Do you mean to say that ibogaine is simply Yage? Hmmmmm
—– Original Message —–
From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 10:21 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] Fw: Ancient Amazon Brew Comes to Colombia’s Cities

> >Yage is not addictive, users say, in fact quite the opposite. At least
one
> doctor has claimed that he has successfully cured addictions to cocaine
> using the potion.<
>
> —– Original Message —–
> From: Sanho Tree
> To: stree@igc.org
> Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 1:05 PM
> Subject: Ancient Amazon Brew Comes to Colombia’s Cities
>
>
> Friends,
> Here’s a mainstream news story that wasn’t inspired by a DEA coordinated
> drug scare.  While one might have a few criticisms with the piece, it’s
> probably worth some supportive LTE’s to newspapers that have the guts to
> run it.
> -Sanho
>
>
> Ancient Amazon Brew Comes to Colombia’s Cities
>
> Reuters Thursday, January 2, 2003; 10:58 AM
>
> By Jason Webb
>
> BOGOTA, Colombia (Reuters) – They crouch in a daze as the shaman plays the
> harmonica, forcing themselves to gulp down a murky liquid so bitter it
> makes them sick.
>
> It is a long, dizzy night in a smoky room wheezing with ritual music. But,
> perhaps just a precious few times, with their eyelids clamped shut, the
> brew takes effect and they see visions. Colors flow into shapes, swirl
then
> snap into focus.
>
> Stick men may appear, or totemic animals such as the boa constrictor or
> tiger, or Indian villages or submarine cities.
>
> When morning comes, it’s back to reality for the groups of people around
> Colombia’s capital Bogota who have been drinking yage, an Amazonic potion
> which is attracting a following among urban intellectuals and artists.
But,
> as the shaman packs away his ritual fan and the nocturnal imbibers emerge
> blinking into the traffic, they hope reality won’t seem quite the same.
>
> Yage makes you vomit repeatedly and gives you diarrhea. But users say they
> feel physically cleansed, as well as mentally reinvigorated by a sense of
> meaning attendant on the visions, a conviction of the existence of a world
> beyond the material.
>
> In the 1950s, the writer William Burroughs, a dedicated drug addict and
> proto-drop-out, found out about the vile, bitter-tasting brew and came to
> South America to look for it.
>
> “All Medicine Men use it in their practice to foretell the future, locate
> lost or stolen objects, name the perpetrator of a crime, to diagnose and
> treat illness,” he wrote in a letter to the British Journal of Addiction,
> in which he recommended scientific research, speculating “perhaps even
more
> spectacular results could be obtained with synthetic variations.”
>
> But the history of yage far predates Western counter-culture. For
> centuries, the potion, together with the gnarled jungle vine used to brew
> it, have been central to the religions of dozens of South American Indian
> ethnic groups.
>
> American-born Jimmy Weiskopf, a slightly-built 60-year-old whose blue eyes
> open wide in a somewhat harrowed, wrinkled face, quotes an Indian shaman,
> or “taita,” in his new book “Yage, the new purgatory.”
>
> “When I am drunk with yage,” one of them explains, “I fly up to the Milky
> Way and talk with the spirits and they tell me how to cure. Sometimes, in
> these visions, they show me a particular plant and the next day I go to
the
> forest to find that plant and am able to cure the sick person.”
>
> VINE OF THE DEAD
>
> Yage is a Colombian name. Peruvians use the Quechua word “ayahuasca,”
> meaning “vine of the dead” or “vine of souls.” The drink contains the
> chemical dimethyltryptamine, or DMT — a compound which is outlawed in the
> United States and produces a similar class of effects to psychedelic drugs
> such as LSD.
>
> Perhaps with an eye to following the advice of William Burroughs, a
> California-based businessman patented the yage vine in the 1980s, although
> U.S. authorities took away the rights a decade later after complaints by
> Amazon Indians.
>
> U.S. law enforcers frown on yage, even if they have sometimes found it
hard
> to explain exactly why.
>
> A federal judge recently ruled customs agents violated religious freedoms
> when they confiscated ingredients from a Brazilian-inspired Church, known
> as the “Union of the Vegetable,” which used the brew in ceremonies in
Santa
> Fe, New Mexico. The judge also said there was no proof that it was
harmful.
>
> Its use is permitted in much of South America, and has a certain cache in
> the arty circles of Bogota, where even the mayor, a former mathematics
> professor, has tried it.
>
> Of dubious legality or not in the United States, the Internet is full of
> ayahuasca information for American dabblers in drugs.
>
> Often describing their visions in terms more reminiscent of sci-fi movies
> than religious experience, many trippers dwell on the horrible side
effects
> and one recounts how he tried, unsuccessfully, to drown out the flavor
with
> syrup.
>
> A typical excerpt: “A little after 1:30, R got up to puke. K puked a
little
> after that. Soon they were on their way to join me. We all arrived in
> hyperspace around 1:45 or so.”
>
> Such louche accounts of narcotic tourism could hardly be further removed
in
> tone from Weiskopf’s professions of respect for the vine, which he insists
> is a sacred plant.
>
> SHAMANS FLEE TO CITIES
>
> He has taken the stuff for more than a decade, since his teenage sons
> returned from a holiday with their mother in the jungles of Putumayo in
> southern Colombia and intrigued their father with a story of drinking yage
> in an Indian village.
>
> “It seemed to have changed them, it seemed to have made them more mature
> and it seemed to have been a very interesting, illuminating experience for
> them,” Weiskopf told Reuters at a cafe near his Bogota home.
>
> These days, his yage sessions generally take place with friends in the
> capital city. The 38-year-old war which scours Colombia’s countryside has
> forced many Indians, including taitas, to seek refuge in urban centers in
> the past few years, spreading the practice of taking their visionary
drink.
>
> In his book, so far published only in Spanish but eventually to be
> available in English, Weiskopf likens the sense of their own
insignificance
> which is impressed on yage users to the humbling message of many
religions.
>
> Those who drink see their faults with great clarity and are therefore
> enabled to heal emotional problems, he said, also ascribing great
medicinal
> properties to the brew because of its ferocious expulsion of toxins from
> the body.
>
> Yage is not addictive, users say, in fact quite the opposite. At least one
> doctor has claimed that he has successfully cured addictions to cocaine
> using the potion.
>
> Weiskopf, who has only rarely drunk yage without the guidance of a taita,
> dismisses suggestions the drink, with its messy excretory effects, could
> become a recreational drug.
>
> While its visions offer glimpses of the sublime, a world in which users
> feel hidden spirits are revealed to them, a night of yage-drinking can
> often warm up with diabolic apparitions and a terrifying conviction of
> imminent death.
>
> “I think there’s a spirit in the bottle and you have to liberate that
> spirit. Now I think if you don’t have a ritual and you don’t do it on a
> special occasion with reverence and with seriousness probably you’re going
> to have a very flat experience,” said Weiskopf.
>
> © 2003 Reuters
>
>
>
> **************************************************************
> Sanho Tree                       202/234-9382 ext. 266 (voice)
> Fellow, Drug Policy Project      202/387-7915 (fax)
> Institute for Policy Studies     202/494-8004 (mobile)
> 733 15th St., NW, #1020          email: stree@igc.org
> Washington, DC 20005             http://www.ips-dc.org
> **************************************************************
>
>
>

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine question seattle
Date: January 2, 2003 at 6:45:47 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

There
is — in theory —
some sort of SMART meeting around here, but I’ve
never found it … on the
flipside I’ve never really looked.

The one in Miami isn’t running any longer, there is
one in Ft. Lauderdale that I went to.

Look, everything HELPS and nothing HELPS. If you want
HELP for something to fix you, well, you ain’t going
to get it, unless you want a “fix”… You just can’t
sit back and let ibogaine, ACID, the 12 steps or some
treatment center to fix you, you have to fix you, you
have to be serious. So, if you are willing, will do
the work, sure, ibogaine, acid, 12 steps, Yoga… can
be used as a tool.  That said, ibo does some stuff
more like a medication than a cure/treatment – FOR ME
in that I take it more or less regularly (6+ months)
and I am happier, things work better… It is better
with the ibo though I don’t have the same need for it
I did years ago, but what the hey, if it works keep
doing it… That said I don’t think I would be here
without the ibogaine, but the ibo didn’t do it all by itself.

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
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From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine question seattle
Date: January 2, 2003 at 5:35:03 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Wed, Jan 01, 2003 at 03:24:59PM -0800], [Xiang Lee Chen] wrote:

| Thank you, my questions then would be if you don’t
| believe in the 12 steps then why did dr. mash say that
| you take people to meetings sometime?

Well, because no matter which of my realities they’re culled from, it
seems that nearly everyone I know is either on drugs, trying to get off
drugs, or skidding back and forth.  While it is entirely possible to do
everything your own way, for most people it just reaches the stage of,
“well, ya know, it’s been 6 months, I’m really not seeing any magic
happening here, hanging around with me is not sufficient to save you from
yourself, I’m not a treatment pimp who is leeching flow off you and I can
no longer deal with 25 phone calls a day whenever you’re having a crisis.
Here’s a meeting, it’s completely filled with people bitching about shit,
so spread the codependence around.  Good luck with all that.”

It’s also important to give the people in my local “recovery community”
(aka: the Legion of Hall Monitors on Crack), new material every so often
so they can talk shit amongst themselves and exclaim, “yeah mahn, I saw
Patrick at a meeting, he sat in the back and was all fucked up and
relapsed.”  And this still blows my mind.  That I can talk to someone in
“recovery” who will rattle off a list of places I have theoretically been
seen, meetings I went to, and things I “shared.”  It’s like, who the fuck
are you people, I don’t hang out with any of you — ever, why do you even
know that I exist much less keep track of my imaginary comings and goings.
I hate that shit.

Anyway, basically, I occasionally drag people to 12-step meetings because
I don’t have any other place to take them to.  There is — in theory —
some sort of SMART meeting around here, but I’ve never found it … on the
flipside I’ve never really looked.  Perhaps I should.

| My other
| question would be then do you feel lsd therapy and
| psychedelics are useful for helping people get
| abstinence from hard drugs?

Uhm . . . well, absolutely and yes.  Plus, also, not really, and probably
not.

A pivotal moment for me was ’bout 2 years ago when a guy I was friends
with — who actually was in traditional “recovery,” working the steps,
going to therapy, all that shit — asked me to get him acid.  And the
conversation was reasonable, it just amounted to “I want what you have,
help me get there.”  And I was going to, then I thought about it, then I
thought about it a lot, passed it through the Purple Shit(TM)(SM)(Patent
Pending), and took a pass.

My conclusion at the time was, if I could hypothetically help you get
acid, then you go and take it, find God, realign your entire universe, and
live happier ever after…  Well, that’s highly groovy.  But, see, if on
the flipside, you take acid, wreck your car, and take off on a 2 month
long crack run…  Then I just set all of that into play.  And I mean, no
*I* didn’t do any of that, he would have, but I really don’t need the
karma either way, whatever you’re looking for I cannot imagine it’ll take
you longer than a few hours to find it, so good luck, you really don’t
need me for that.

And what he wound up doing was blowing out, and the downward spiral is
still going, he has not pulled back out of it.  Could it have been avoided
if he’d had the chance to do acid… probably not, and I would be left
holding the bag and wondering if I’m the reason all of that happened.

Without LSD, I personally, may or may not have made it.  Anything is
possible, but let’s say I would strongly bet against it.  I also went
somewhere where the actions I was taking were regarded as highly positive
and full of great merit; people did not have a problem with the fact that
I left the planet and wasn’t gonna be landing for a few months.

Had I done what I did in the United States, it would have taken a few days
at most for some helpful person to have me Baker-acted; I would have come
back to earth in a straitjacket, hosed down with sedatives and
neuroleptics, and then been dumped into some perpetual long-term endless
circle-jerk of bullshit “therapeutic community” where they’d let me out on
the playground to smoke a cigarette if I behaved really well.

I wanted reintegration; I got it.  Had I done it in the United States, I
would have gotten some idiot jotting down a few paragraphs in my medical
records, describing what I did as yet another manifestation of my lifelong
drug problem.

What I’m saying is: it wouldn’t have worked out the same way.  Very wrong
setting.

I absolutely believe that entheogens used with the proper context, set,
setting, alla that, can provide a tremendous boost to nearly everyone.
The proper set, setting, and intent is prolly not handing someone acid at
a rave.  What I mostly see is people turning entheogens into an excuse to
go off and do whatever it is that they wanna do anyway (heroin or crack).
Left to their own devices, they turn it all to shit.

All of this sorta loops back to where it begins…  I can’t make a
generalization about what <any given drug-dependent individual> should do.
Everyone is different.  I do not know where to send people who need
aftercare, but don’t want the 12-step crap.  Going to an ashram is mostly
not going to work out.  If you go somewhere very straight, then wander
around and talk about how much you wanna smoke crack all day…  Well,
it’s not gonna help you very much, and it’s unlikely that anyone else
there will understand what you’re going through.  If you go to a space
where drug use is accepted; there is a very high chance that in addition
to entheogens, there’s also gonna be all the materials you are trying to
avoid.  Will most people make the scenario work…?  Nope.

Will most people pick up self-help books like the SMART materials and try
to figure out how to help themselves?  Nope.  Will most people do
*anything* except stay clean by force of will for a few days or weeks,
then go back to doing <whatever>?  Nope.

The problem with all of this is that “drug treatment” sucks.  Period.  You
mostly have either a collection of pinheads with theories, who have never
done any drugs and have no idea how “addiction” works, and then on the
other side you have — with some few exceptions — the dumbest and most
fucked up; by which I mean to say doctors who are perpetually <this close>
to losing their license, and have lots and lots of experience with drugs,
plus, also, the One True Answer to everything.  In other words: whatever
they did to clean up (if they happen to actually be clean).  This is
nearly always the 12 steps.

I gotta go, this is getting long, but to sum it all up: from what I can
see of your web page, you are some program that students take classes in,
which tries to help street people get basic medical care, new syringes,
condoms, shit like that.

The main set of problems that *most* of the people you deal with are going
to have; is that they’re broke, out on the street, have no skills, no
friends, and no hope.  Many of them will be mentally ill, and
self-medicating with narcotic analgesics works a fuckova lot better than
doing neuroleptics for most things, especially schizophrenia.

Drug dependence is their solution, not their problem.  Even if you could
dose them all with ibogaine and then follow it up with some other kind of
entheogen-assisted therapy…  Nearly all of them will be right back where
they started, given a week or two tops.

On the flipside, a few will fly over the cuckoo’s nest and loop out of
that spiral.  Go figure.

laters,

Patrick

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: Ancient Amazon Brew Comes to Colombia’s Cities
Date: January 2, 2003 at 5:39:32 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“simply Yage”? Hmmm.;-))
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: David Minick
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 5:11 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: Ancient Amazon Brew Comes to Colombia’s Cities

Do you mean to say that ibogaine is simply Yage? Hmmmmm
—– Original Message —–
From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 10:21 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] Fw: Ancient Amazon Brew Comes to Colombia’s Cities

> >Yage is not addictive, users say, in fact quite the opposite. At least
one
> doctor has claimed that he has successfully cured addictions to cocaine
> using the potion.<
>
> —– Original Message —–
> From: Sanho Tree
> To: stree@igc.org
> Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 1:05 PM
> Subject: Ancient Amazon Brew Comes to Colombia’s Cities
>
>
> Friends,
> Here’s a mainstream news story that wasn’t inspired by a DEA coordinated
> drug scare.  While one might have a few criticisms with the piece, it’s
> probably worth some supportive LTE’s to newspapers that have the guts to
> run it.
> -Sanho
>
>
> Ancient Amazon Brew Comes to Colombia’s Cities
>
> Reuters Thursday, January 2, 2003; 10:58 AM
>
> By Jason Webb
>
> BOGOTA, Colombia (Reuters) – They crouch in a daze as the shaman plays the
> harmonica, forcing themselves to gulp down a murky liquid so bitter it
> makes them sick.
>
> It is a long, dizzy night in a smoky room wheezing with ritual music. But,
> perhaps just a precious few times, with their eyelids clamped shut, the
> brew takes effect and they see visions. Colors flow into shapes, swirl
then
> snap into focus.
>
> Stick men may appear, or totemic animals such as the boa constrictor or
> tiger, or Indian villages or submarine cities.
>
> When morning comes, it’s back to reality for the groups of people around
> Colombia’s capital Bogota who have been drinking yage, an Amazonic potion
> which is attracting a following among urban intellectuals and artists.
But,
> as the shaman packs away his ritual fan and the nocturnal imbibers emerge
> blinking into the traffic, they hope reality won’t seem quite the same.
>
> Yage makes you vomit repeatedly and gives you diarrhea. But users say they
> feel physically cleansed, as well as mentally reinvigorated by a sense of
> meaning attendant on the visions, a conviction of the existence of a world
> beyond the material.
>
> In the 1950s, the writer William Burroughs, a dedicated drug addict and
> proto-drop-out, found out about the vile, bitter-tasting brew and came to
> South America to look for it.
>
> “All Medicine Men use it in their practice to foretell the future, locate
> lost or stolen objects, name the perpetrator of a crime, to diagnose and
> treat illness,” he wrote in a letter to the British Journal of Addiction,
> in which he recommended scientific research, speculating “perhaps even
more
> spectacular results could be obtained with synthetic variations.”
>
> But the history of yage far predates Western counter-culture. For
> centuries, the potion, together with the gnarled jungle vine used to brew
> it, have been central to the religions of dozens of South American Indian
> ethnic groups.
>
> American-born Jimmy Weiskopf, a slightly-built 60-year-old whose blue eyes
> open wide in a somewhat harrowed, wrinkled face, quotes an Indian shaman,
> or “taita,” in his new book “Yage, the new purgatory.”
>
> “When I am drunk with yage,” one of them explains, “I fly up to the Milky
> Way and talk with the spirits and they tell me how to cure. Sometimes, in
> these visions, they show me a particular plant and the next day I go to
the
> forest to find that plant and am able to cure the sick person.”
>
> VINE OF THE DEAD
>
> Yage is a Colombian name. Peruvians use the Quechua word “ayahuasca,”
> meaning “vine of the dead” or “vine of souls.” The drink contains the
> chemical dimethyltryptamine, or DMT — a compound which is outlawed in the
> United States and produces a similar class of effects to psychedelic drugs
> such as LSD.
>
> Perhaps with an eye to following the advice of William Burroughs, a
> California-based businessman patented the yage vine in the 1980s, although
> U.S. authorities took away the rights a decade later after complaints by
> Amazon Indians.
>
> U.S. law enforcers frown on yage, even if they have sometimes found it
hard
> to explain exactly why.
>
> A federal judge recently ruled customs agents violated religious freedoms
> when they confiscated ingredients >from a Brazilian-inspired Church, known
> as the “Union of the Vegetable,” which used the brew in ceremonies in
Santa
> Fe, New Mexico. The judge also said there was no proof that it was
harmful.
>
> Its use is permitted in much of South America, and has a certain cache in
> the arty circles of Bogota, where even the mayor, a former mathematics
> professor, has tried it.
>
> Of dubious legality or not in the United States, the Internet is full of
> ayahuasca information for American dabblers in drugs.
>
> Often describing their visions in terms more reminiscent of sci-fi movies
> than religious experience, many trippers dwell on the horrible side
effects
> and one recounts how he tried, unsuccessfully, to drown out the flavor
with
> syrup.
>
> A typical excerpt: “A little after 1:30, R got up to puke. K puked a
little
> after that. Soon they were on their way to join me. We all arrived in
> hyperspace around 1:45 or so.”
>
> Such louche accounts of narcotic tourism could hardly be further removed
in
> tone from Weiskopf’s professions of respect for the vine, which he insists
> is a sacred plant.
>
> SHAMANS FLEE TO CITIES
>
> He has taken the stuff for more than a decade, since his teenage sons
> returned from a holiday with their mother in the jungles of Putumayo in
> southern Colombia and intrigued their father with a story of drinking yage
> in an Indian village.
>
> “It seemed to have changed them, it seemed to have made them more mature
> and it seemed to have been a very interesting, illuminating experience for
> them,” Weiskopf told Reuters at a cafe near his Bogota home.
>
> These days, his yage sessions generally take place with friends in the
> capital city. The 38-year-old war which scours Colombia’s countryside has
> forced many Indians, including taitas, to seek refuge in urban centers in
> the past few years, spreading the practice of taking their visionary
drink.
>
> In his book, so far published only in Spanish but eventually to be
> available in English, Weiskopf likens the sense of their own
insignificance
> which is impressed on yage users to the humbling message of many
religions.
>
> Those who drink see their faults with great clarity and are therefore
> enabled to heal emotional problems, he said, also ascribing great
medicinal
> properties to the brew because of its ferocious expulsion of toxins from
> the body.
>
> Yage is not addictive, users say, in fact quite the opposite. At least one
> doctor has claimed that he has successfully cured addictions to cocaine
> using the potion.
>
> Weiskopf, who has only rarely drunk yage without the guidance of a taita,
> dismisses suggestions the drink, with its messy excretory effects, could
> become a recreational drug.
>
> While its visions offer glimpses of the sublime, a world in which users
> feel hidden spirits are revealed to them, a night of yage-drinking can
> often warm up with diabolic apparitions and a terrifying conviction of
> imminent death.
>
> “I think there’s a spirit in the bottle and you have to liberate that
> spirit. Now I think if you don’t have a ritual and you don’t do it on a
> special occasion with reverence and with seriousness probably you’re going
> to have a very flat experience,” said Weiskopf.
>
> © 2003 Reuters
>
>
>
> **************************************************************
> Sanho Tree                       202/234-9382 ext. 266 (voice)
> Fellow, Drug Policy Project      202/387-7915 (fax)
> Institute for Policy Studies     202/494-8004 (mobile)
> 733 15th St., NW, #1020          email: stree@igc.org
> Washington, DC 20005             http://www.ips-dc.org
> **************************************************************
>
>
>

From: “David Minick” <dminick@adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: Ancient Amazon Brew Comes to Colombia’s Cities
Date: January 2, 2003 at 5:11:56 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Do you mean to say that ibogaine is simply Yage? Hmmmmm
—– Original Message —–
From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 10:21 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] Fw: Ancient Amazon Brew Comes to Colombia’s Cities

Yage is not addictive, users say, in fact quite the opposite. At least
one
doctor has claimed that he has successfully cured addictions to cocaine
using the potion.<

—– Original Message —–
From: Sanho Tree
To: stree@igc.org
Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 1:05 PM
Subject: Ancient Amazon Brew Comes to Colombia’s Cities

Friends,
Here’s a mainstream news story that wasn’t inspired by a DEA coordinated
drug scare.  While one might have a few criticisms with the piece, it’s
probably worth some supportive LTE’s to newspapers that have the guts to
run it.
-Sanho

Ancient Amazon Brew Comes to Colombia’s Cities

Reuters Thursday, January 2, 2003; 10:58 AM

By Jason Webb

BOGOTA, Colombia (Reuters) – They crouch in a daze as the shaman plays the
harmonica, forcing themselves to gulp down a murky liquid so bitter it
makes them sick.

It is a long, dizzy night in a smoky room wheezing with ritual music. But,
perhaps just a precious few times, with their eyelids clamped shut, the
brew takes effect and they see visions. Colors flow into shapes, swirl
then
snap into focus.

Stick men may appear, or totemic animals such as the boa constrictor or
tiger, or Indian villages or submarine cities.

When morning comes, it’s back to reality for the groups of people around
Colombia’s capital Bogota who have been drinking yage, an Amazonic potion
which is attracting a following among urban intellectuals and artists.
But,
as the shaman packs away his ritual fan and the nocturnal imbibers emerge
blinking into the traffic, they hope reality won’t seem quite the same.

Yage makes you vomit repeatedly and gives you diarrhea. But users say they
feel physically cleansed, as well as mentally reinvigorated by a sense of
meaning attendant on the visions, a conviction of the existence of a world
beyond the material.

In the 1950s, the writer William Burroughs, a dedicated drug addict and
proto-drop-out, found out about the vile, bitter-tasting brew and came to
South America to look for it.

“All Medicine Men use it in their practice to foretell the future, locate
lost or stolen objects, name the perpetrator of a crime, to diagnose and
treat illness,” he wrote in a letter to the British Journal of Addiction,
in which he recommended scientific research, speculating “perhaps even
more
spectacular results could be obtained with synthetic variations.”

But the history of yage far predates Western counter-culture. For
centuries, the potion, together with the gnarled jungle vine used to brew
it, have been central to the religions of dozens of South American Indian
ethnic groups.

American-born Jimmy Weiskopf, a slightly-built 60-year-old whose blue eyes
open wide in a somewhat harrowed, wrinkled face, quotes an Indian shaman,
or “taita,” in his new book “Yage, the new purgatory.”

“When I am drunk with yage,” one of them explains, “I fly up to the Milky
Way and talk with the spirits and they tell me how to cure. Sometimes, in
these visions, they show me a particular plant and the next day I go to
the
forest to find that plant and am able to cure the sick person.”

VINE OF THE DEAD

Yage is a Colombian name. Peruvians use the Quechua word “ayahuasca,”
meaning “vine of the dead” or “vine of souls.” The drink contains the
chemical dimethyltryptamine, or DMT — a compound which is outlawed in the
United States and produces a similar class of effects to psychedelic drugs
such as LSD.

Perhaps with an eye to following the advice of William Burroughs, a
California-based businessman patented the yage vine in the 1980s, although
U.S. authorities took away the rights a decade later after complaints by
Amazon Indians.

U.S. law enforcers frown on yage, even if they have sometimes found it
hard
to explain exactly why.

A federal judge recently ruled customs agents violated religious freedoms
when they confiscated ingredients from a Brazilian-inspired Church, known
as the “Union of the Vegetable,” which used the brew in ceremonies in
Santa
Fe, New Mexico. The judge also said there was no proof that it was
harmful.

Its use is permitted in much of South America, and has a certain cache in
the arty circles of Bogota, where even the mayor, a former mathematics
professor, has tried it.

Of dubious legality or not in the United States, the Internet is full of
ayahuasca information for American dabblers in drugs.

Often describing their visions in terms more reminiscent of sci-fi movies
than religious experience, many trippers dwell on the horrible side
effects
and one recounts how he tried, unsuccessfully, to drown out the flavor
with
syrup.

A typical excerpt: “A little after 1:30, R got up to puke. K puked a
little
after that. Soon they were on their way to join me. We all arrived in
hyperspace around 1:45 or so.”

Such louche accounts of narcotic tourism could hardly be further removed
in
tone from Weiskopf’s professions of respect for the vine, which he insists
is a sacred plant.

SHAMANS FLEE TO CITIES

He has taken the stuff for more than a decade, since his teenage sons
returned from a holiday with their mother in the jungles of Putumayo in
southern Colombia and intrigued their father with a story of drinking yage
in an Indian village.

“It seemed to have changed them, it seemed to have made them more mature
and it seemed to have been a very interesting, illuminating experience for
them,” Weiskopf told Reuters at a cafe near his Bogota home.

These days, his yage sessions generally take place with friends in the
capital city. The 38-year-old war which scours Colombia’s countryside has
forced many Indians, including taitas, to seek refuge in urban centers in
the past few years, spreading the practice of taking their visionary
drink.

In his book, so far published only in Spanish but eventually to be
available in English, Weiskopf likens the sense of their own
insignificance
which is impressed on yage users to the humbling message of many
religions.

Those who drink see their faults with great clarity and are therefore
enabled to heal emotional problems, he said, also ascribing great
medicinal
properties to the brew because of its ferocious expulsion of toxins from
the body.

Yage is not addictive, users say, in fact quite the opposite. At least one
doctor has claimed that he has successfully cured addictions to cocaine
using the potion.

Weiskopf, who has only rarely drunk yage without the guidance of a taita,
dismisses suggestions the drink, with its messy excretory effects, could
become a recreational drug.

While its visions offer glimpses of the sublime, a world in which users
feel hidden spirits are revealed to them, a night of yage-drinking can
often warm up with diabolic apparitions and a terrifying conviction of
imminent death.

“I think there’s a spirit in the bottle and you have to liberate that
spirit. Now I think if you don’t have a ritual and you don’t do it on a
special occasion with reverence and with seriousness probably you’re going
to have a very flat experience,” said Weiskopf.

© 2003 Reuters

**************************************************************
Sanho Tree                       202/234-9382 ext. 266 (voice)
Fellow, Drug Policy Project      202/387-7915 (fax)
Institute for Policy Studies     202/494-8004 (mobile)
733 15th St., NW, #1020          email: stree@igc.org
Washington, DC 20005             http://www.ips-dc.org
**************************************************************

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Mash Media Mention…
Date: January 2, 2003 at 5:04:44 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Pubdate: Wed, 01 Jan 2003
Source: Sun Herald (MS)
Copyright: 2003, The Sun Herald
Contact: letters@sunherald.com
Website: http://www.sunherald.com
Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/432
Author: Associated Press

COCAINE SHORT-CIRCUITS PLEASURE, STUDY FINDS

NEW YORK – Chronic cocaine use harms brain circuits that help produce the
sense of pleasure, which may help explain why cocaine addicts have a higher
rate of depression, a study suggests.

It’s not clear whether cocaine kills brain cells or merely impairs them, or
whether the effect is reversible, said study author Dr. Karley Little. But
it’s bad news for cocaine addicts in any case, he said.

“I personally wouldn’t want to lose 10 or 20 percent of my reward-pleasure
center neurons, or have them just deranged or not working right,” said
Little, of the Ann Arbor, Mich., Veterans Affairs Medical Center and the
University of Michigan.

He and colleagues studied brain samples taken during autopsies from
long-term, heavy cocaine users. Their results are reported in the January
issue of the American Journal of Psychiatry.

Little said the research did not reveal whether the brain impairment
resulted from years of use or just recent use.

The research provides “a piece of the puzzle” in explaining why cocaine
users run a higher risk of depression, said Dr. Deborah Mash, a
neuroscientist at the University of Miami School of Medicine.

It remains unclear whether cocaine causes depression or whether people
start using the drug because they are depressed.

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine question seattle
Date: January 2, 2003 at 1:42:05 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

MDMA (absolutely NOT Extasy, that stuff contains
anything and whatever!!).

Ditto!

Brett, what do you think about MDMA some 20 days
after IBO?

Sure, I would go a little easy the first couple to see
how sensitive they are, I have heard it hits harder
after doing ibo. I would guess that both of their
actions on serotonin would enhance each others… so
(again, I would guess) you have nor-ibogaine in you,
locking into serotonin receptors and increases
serotonin and then use MDMA which dumps large amounts
of serotonin.

Another thing that seems to help during that period
is Salvia Divinorum –
but not smoked! A fresh leaf or two is rolled and
put under the tongue –
and kept there!

I have smoked small amounts of plain leaf, there seems
to be no conflict, it makes it more “colorful”. Yes,
chewing sounds good – I don’t seem to care for Salvia
much, strange stuff and have only got my nerve up for
small amounts, so far…

Marko

At 01:36 2.1.2003, you wrote:
I have gotten suggestions that MDMA could be
helpful after ibogaine, or DMT.

I have dosed more than 1,000 people in pure MDMA in
my recent eight years,
and I have dosed over 200 people on DMT in the last
5 years (more than
anyone else I know), but I haven’t considered it an
adjunct to the iboga
therapy yet.

I’m still exploring the vast potential and
varieties of uses for the
ibogaine, so it will be a while before I consider
powerful psychedelics as
part of therapy, if ever.

Marc Emery
Iboga Therapy House

—– Original Message —–
From: “Xiang Lee Chen” <xiangleechen@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 3:24 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine question seattle

Thank you, my questions then would be if you
don’t
believe in the 12 steps then why did dr. mash
say that
you take people to meetings sometime? My other
question would be then do you feel lsd therapy
and
psychedelics are useful for helping people get
abstinence from hard drugs?

My question for Marc Emery of Iboga Therapy
House is
do you plan to have any kind of spiritual use of
psychedelic drugs after the ibogaine?

Thank you

Xiang Chen
http://www.dom.washington.edu/sparx/

— “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
wrote:
On [Fri, Dec 27, 2002 at 05:52:01PM -0800],
[Xiang
Lee Chen] wrote:

| what I have read on mindvox answers some
questions
in
| parts but it’s not a sensibile whole. You
are very
| very smart and write extremely well but it
is like
you
| take pages and re arrange them in no right
order.
I
| cannot follow, I think this is intentional
but I
don’t
| understand mindvox at all except art, not
followable
| information

I’m just incoherent.

| My questions please.
|
| At Seattle when asked about the 12 steps you
gave
a
| nice reply and said that upward of 50% of
addicted
| persons who take ibogaine used the 12 steps.
In
this
| issue of heroin times you are very negative
about
12
| steps. I know you do not use them but you
gave
very
| nice reply at talk, then wrote a article
which
| completely invalidates them. I don’t
understand.

What’s in “this issue” of Heroin Times, is
sumthin’
I wrote ’bout 2 years
ago; he is simply recycling my material.  A
lot of
that particular space
in time, is just me working out my shit and
venting,
to sum it up, “HA!
Fuck all of you stupid fucking pieces of shit
who
ripped me off, handed me
lead weights while I was drowning and
attempted to
inflict psychological
damages on me while I was in an extremely
vulnerable
state.  Who’s still
standing is me, and who has gone down in
fucking
flames are 95% of the
weak-willed idiots who ever got in my face
with
their bullshit.”

In short, it’s an emotional response that
represents
my feelings about
being subjected to “drug treatment” and the
comedy
routine known as rehab.
But that was a while ago, and it’s kinda like,
okay,
the sun rose in the
east today, and the 12 steps still suck, so
what
else is new.

The 12 steps are sumthin’ to do — other than
drugs.
They’re extremely
old eastern concepts for dismantling ego,
rewritten
and dumbed-down for
drug dependent individuals who are acclimated
to
western culture.
Somewhere along the way, all of that turned
into the
Cult of Eternal
Powerlessness where you can sit and spin,
complain
about shit for all
eternity, and shine up the altar you’ve built
to
your idealized former
self.

An organized alternative to the 12-steps,
which many
people on this list
seem to find useful is SMART.  I’ve never done
it
personally, but reading
through their spin control, I haven’t found
much I
disagree with.

Uhm, I dunno their URL offhand, Randy does I’m
sure.

| In JAMA article you are quoted as saying
that on
| ibogaine you “went to hell and got killed
1000
times”
| which is same as you said at talk when you
did
| ibogaines to detox from drugs, but at your
talk
you
| gave very dark experiences but it was very
funny
not
| like you would not do ibogaine again, you
said you
| will do ibogaine again at talk. You also
said
ibogaine
| very mild, not near as strong as LSD.

Yeah I did, it wasn’t much fun, but it
certainly
didn’t deter me from
doing ibogaine again.  Ibogaine isn’t a very
strong
“hallucinogen” it’s
equivalent to no more than roughly 300-500mcg
of
LSD.  If the visions are
distressing, then just open your eyes, they
will
recede.

This is both good and bad.  What it amounts to
is
walking into the lobby
where a movie is playing, you can go sit in
the
movie, or if you don’t
like it, you can wander back out and land
right on,
“fuck this, it didn’t
work, I knew it wouldn’t, nothing ever does,
where’s
my dealer at…”
Ibogaine isn’t strong enough to FORCE you to
confront anything, you can
avoid it.  On 3-5mg+ of LSD you really, REALLY
do
not have that option.
Whether you decide you want it or not at that
point,
you’re going.

On the flipside, LSD ain’t gonna do nothin’
’bout
your habit.

| Thanks for talk and your time, for me you
made it
much
| eaisier to understand difference between
ultra
rapid
| and other detox and what ibogaine feel like,
but
you
| confuse me with 12 step and if you like
ibogaine
or
| not.

I like ibogaine, the 12-steps are something
that
works out for some
people, and does damage to many more who are
subjected to this bullshit as
the “only answer,” to drug dependence, and
confuse
their failure to get in
tune with this cult, as having anything
whatsoever
to do with stepping out
of drug dependence.

What that means: if you actually WANT to get
off
drugs, and the 12-steps
don’t work out for you, it does not mean
you’re
damned, not ready, or
hopeless; it just means maybe you should find
something else to do.

Patrick

__________________________________________________
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From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fw: Ancient Amazon Brew Comes to Colombia’s Cities
Date: January 2, 2003 at 1:21:56 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yage is not addictive, users say, in fact quite the opposite. At least one
doctor has claimed that he has successfully cured addictions to cocaine
using the potion.<

—– Original Message —–
From: Sanho Tree
To: stree@igc.org
Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 1:05 PM
Subject: Ancient Amazon Brew Comes to Colombia’s Cities

Friends,
Here’s a mainstream news story that wasn’t inspired by a DEA coordinated
drug scare.  While one might have a few criticisms with the piece, it’s
probably worth some supportive LTE’s to newspapers that have the guts to
run it.
-Sanho

Ancient Amazon Brew Comes to Colombia’s Cities

Reuters Thursday, January 2, 2003; 10:58 AM

By Jason Webb

BOGOTA, Colombia (Reuters) – They crouch in a daze as the shaman plays the
harmonica, forcing themselves to gulp down a murky liquid so bitter it
makes them sick.

It is a long, dizzy night in a smoky room wheezing with ritual music. But,
perhaps just a precious few times, with their eyelids clamped shut, the
brew takes effect and they see visions. Colors flow into shapes, swirl then
snap into focus.

Stick men may appear, or totemic animals such as the boa constrictor or
tiger, or Indian villages or submarine cities.

When morning comes, it’s back to reality for the groups of people around
Colombia’s capital Bogota who have been drinking yage, an Amazonic potion
which is attracting a following among urban intellectuals and artists. But,
as the shaman packs away his ritual fan and the nocturnal imbibers emerge
blinking into the traffic, they hope reality won’t seem quite the same.

Yage makes you vomit repeatedly and gives you diarrhea. But users say they
feel physically cleansed, as well as mentally reinvigorated by a sense of
meaning attendant on the visions, a conviction of the existence of a world
beyond the material.

In the 1950s, the writer William Burroughs, a dedicated drug addict and
proto-drop-out, found out about the vile, bitter-tasting brew and came to
South America to look for it.

“All Medicine Men use it in their practice to foretell the future, locate
lost or stolen objects, name the perpetrator of a crime, to diagnose and
treat illness,” he wrote in a letter to the British Journal of Addiction,
in which he recommended scientific research, speculating “perhaps even more
spectacular results could be obtained with synthetic variations.”

But the history of yage far predates Western counter-culture. For
centuries, the potion, together with the gnarled jungle vine used to brew
it, have been central to the religions of dozens of South American Indian
ethnic groups.

American-born Jimmy Weiskopf, a slightly-built 60-year-old whose blue eyes
open wide in a somewhat harrowed, wrinkled face, quotes an Indian shaman,
or “taita,” in his new book “Yage, the new purgatory.”

“When I am drunk with yage,” one of them explains, “I fly up to the Milky
Way and talk with the spirits and they tell me how to cure. Sometimes, in
these visions, they show me a particular plant and the next day I go to the
forest to find that plant and am able to cure the sick person.”

VINE OF THE DEAD

Yage is a Colombian name. Peruvians use the Quechua word “ayahuasca,”
meaning “vine of the dead” or “vine of souls.” The drink contains the
chemical dimethyltryptamine, or DMT — a compound which is outlawed in the
United States and produces a similar class of effects to psychedelic drugs
such as LSD.

Perhaps with an eye to following the advice of William Burroughs, a
California-based businessman patented the yage vine in the 1980s, although
U.S. authorities took away the rights a decade later after complaints by
Amazon Indians.

U.S. law enforcers frown on yage, even if they have sometimes found it hard
to explain exactly why.

A federal judge recently ruled customs agents violated religious freedoms
when they confiscated ingredients from a Brazilian-inspired Church, known
as the “Union of the Vegetable,” which used the brew in ceremonies in Santa
Fe, New Mexico. The judge also said there was no proof that it was harmful.

Its use is permitted in much of South America, and has a certain cache in
the arty circles of Bogota, where even the mayor, a former mathematics
professor, has tried it.

Of dubious legality or not in the United States, the Internet is full of
ayahuasca information for American dabblers in drugs.

Often describing their visions in terms more reminiscent of sci-fi movies
than religious experience, many trippers dwell on the horrible side effects
and one recounts how he tried, unsuccessfully, to drown out the flavor with
syrup.

A typical excerpt: “A little after 1:30, R got up to puke. K puked a little
after that. Soon they were on their way to join me. We all arrived in
hyperspace around 1:45 or so.”

Such louche accounts of narcotic tourism could hardly be further removed in
tone from Weiskopf’s professions of respect for the vine, which he insists
is a sacred plant.

SHAMANS FLEE TO CITIES

He has taken the stuff for more than a decade, since his teenage sons
returned from a holiday with their mother in the jungles of Putumayo in
southern Colombia and intrigued their father with a story of drinking yage
in an Indian village.

“It seemed to have changed them, it seemed to have made them more mature
and it seemed to have been a very interesting, illuminating experience for
them,” Weiskopf told Reuters at a cafe near his Bogota home.

These days, his yage sessions generally take place with friends in the
capital city. The 38-year-old war which scours Colombia’s countryside has
forced many Indians, including taitas, to seek refuge in urban centers in
the past few years, spreading the practice of taking their visionary drink.

In his book, so far published only in Spanish but eventually to be
available in English, Weiskopf likens the sense of their own insignificance
which is impressed on yage users to the humbling message of many religions.

Those who drink see their faults with great clarity and are therefore
enabled to heal emotional problems, he said, also ascribing great medicinal
properties to the brew because of its ferocious expulsion of toxins from
the body.

Yage is not addictive, users say, in fact quite the opposite. At least one
doctor has claimed that he has successfully cured addictions to cocaine
using the potion.

Weiskopf, who has only rarely drunk yage without the guidance of a taita,
dismisses suggestions the drink, with its messy excretory effects, could
become a recreational drug.

While its visions offer glimpses of the sublime, a world in which users
feel hidden spirits are revealed to them, a night of yage-drinking can
often warm up with diabolic apparitions and a terrifying conviction of
imminent death.

“I think there’s a spirit in the bottle and you have to liberate that
spirit. Now I think if you don’t have a ritual and you don’t do it on a
special occasion with reverence and with seriousness probably you’re going
to have a very flat experience,” said Weiskopf.

© 2003 Reuters

**************************************************************
Sanho Tree                       202/234-9382 ext. 266 (voice)
Fellow, Drug Policy Project      202/387-7915 (fax)
Institute for Policy Studies     202/494-8004 (mobile)
733 15th St., NW, #1020          email: stree@igc.org
Washington, DC 20005             http://www.ips-dc.org
**************************************************************

From: Bill Ross <ross@cgl.ucsf.EDU>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine question seattle
Date: January 2, 2003 at 1:21:23 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I have dosed over 200 people on DMT

Marc, what form of DMT?

Pure synthesized DMT and extracted Arcasia tree bark DMT

This sounds like a smoked or injected format? I understand
that the smoked/injected experience is rather ‘interior’ to the
person, very strong and short-lived compared to the oral,
DMT-plus-MAO-inhibitor experience afforded by ayahuasca. For
an ongoing follow-up treatment for addicts, I think the latter
might be worth considering, in that it is more social. In this
case it would be interesting to see which format of session
worked best, e.g. more ritual or less. From the MAPS link below:

The ritualization of induced modifications of consciousness,
with or without substances, establishes a universal symbolic
frame within which these experiences acquire significance by
allowing the individual to inscribe himself within a model of
cultural integration.

(Remembering that the addict’s post-ibo challenge is to come up
with a new model of cultural integration, this quote raises the
possibility that ritual alone may be useful – and may be part
of any success that 12-step programs can claim.. of course the
ritual would need to be appropriate to the situation.)

Some links on ayahuasca treatment of drug addiction:

http://www.csp.org/nicholas/A32.html
http://www.maps.org/news-letters/v12n2/12225mab.html
http://yatra.yage.net/addict.htm

Bill Ross

From: Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine question seattle
Date: January 2, 2003 at 8:16:06 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

One of my priests (who himself has conducted more than 80 initiations) suggests that around 2-3 weeks after IBOgaine one should get a dose of pure MDMA (absolutely NOT Extasy, that stuff contains anything and whatever!!).

The reason is that former addicts seem to have an emotional low during that period, and MDMA seems to be very useful to lift them. There is a problem with MDMA being illegal :-((

Brett, what do you think about MDMA some 20 days after IBO?

Another thing that seems to help during that period is Salvia Divinorum – but not smoked! A fresh leaf or two is rolled and put under the tongue – and kept there!

Marko

At 01:36 2.1.2003, you wrote:
I have gotten suggestions that MDMA could be helpful after ibogaine, or DMT.

I have dosed more than 1,000 people in pure MDMA in my recent eight years,
and I have dosed over 200 people on DMT in the last 5 years (more than
anyone else I know), but I haven’t considered it an adjunct to the iboga
therapy yet.

I’m still exploring the vast potential and varieties of uses for the
ibogaine, so it will be a while before I consider powerful psychedelics as
part of therapy, if ever.

Marc Emery
Iboga Therapy House

—– Original Message —–
From: “Xiang Lee Chen” <xiangleechen@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 3:24 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine question seattle

> Thank you, my questions then would be if you don’t
> believe in the 12 steps then why did dr. mash say that
> you take people to meetings sometime? My other
> question would be then do you feel lsd therapy and
> psychedelics are useful for helping people get
> abstinence from hard drugs?
>
> My question for Marc Emery of Iboga Therapy House is
> do you plan to have any kind of spiritual use of
> psychedelic drugs after the ibogaine?
>
> Thank you
>
> Xiang Chen
> http://www.dom.washington.edu/sparx/
>
> — “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> wrote:
> > On [Fri, Dec 27, 2002 at 05:52:01PM -0800], [Xiang
> > Lee Chen] wrote:
> >
> > | what I have read on mindvox answers some questions
> > in
> > | parts but it’s not a sensibile whole. You are very
> > | very smart and write extremely well but it is like
> > you
> > | take pages and re arrange them in no right order.
> > I
> > | cannot follow, I think this is intentional but I
> > don’t
> > | understand mindvox at all except art, not
> > followable
> > | information
> >
> > I’m just incoherent.
> >
> > | My questions please.
> > |
> > | At Seattle when asked about the 12 steps you gave
> > a
> > | nice reply and said that upward of 50% of addicted
> > | persons who take ibogaine used the 12 steps. In
> > this
> > | issue of heroin times you are very negative about
> > 12
> > | steps. I know you do not use them but you gave
> > very
> > | nice reply at talk, then wrote a article which
> > | completely invalidates them. I don’t understand.
> >
> > What’s in “this issue” of Heroin Times, is sumthin’
> > I wrote ’bout 2 years
> > ago; he is simply recycling my material.  A lot of
> > that particular space
> > in time, is just me working out my shit and venting,
> > to sum it up, “HA!
> > Fuck all of you stupid fucking pieces of shit who
> > ripped me off, handed me
> > lead weights while I was drowning and attempted to
> > inflict psychological
> > damages on me while I was in an extremely vulnerable
> > state.  Who’s still
> > standing is me, and who has gone down in fucking
> > flames are 95% of the
> > weak-willed idiots who ever got in my face with
> > their bullshit.”
> >
> > In short, it’s an emotional response that represents
> > my feelings about
> > being subjected to “drug treatment” and the comedy
> > routine known as rehab.
> > But that was a while ago, and it’s kinda like, okay,
> > the sun rose in the
> > east today, and the 12 steps still suck, so what
> > else is new.
> >
> > The 12 steps are sumthin’ to do — other than drugs.
> >  They’re extremely
> > old eastern concepts for dismantling ego, rewritten
> > and dumbed-down for
> > drug dependent individuals who are acclimated to
> > western culture.
> > Somewhere along the way, all of that turned into the
> > Cult of Eternal
> > Powerlessness where you can sit and spin, complain
> > about shit for all
> > eternity, and shine up the altar you’ve built to
> > your idealized former
> > self.
> >
> > An organized alternative to the 12-steps, which many
> > people on this list
> > seem to find useful is SMART.  I’ve never done it
> > personally, but reading
> > through their spin control, I haven’t found much I
> > disagree with.
> >
> > Uhm, I dunno their URL offhand, Randy does I’m sure.
> >
> >
> > | In JAMA article you are quoted as saying that on
> > | ibogaine you “went to hell and got killed 1000
> > times”
> > | which is same as you said at talk when you did
> > | ibogaines to detox from drugs, but at your talk
> > you
> > | gave very dark experiences but it was very funny
> > not
> > | like you would not do ibogaine again, you said you
> > | will do ibogaine again at talk. You also said
> > ibogaine
> > | very mild, not near as strong as LSD.
> >
> > Yeah I did, it wasn’t much fun, but it certainly
> > didn’t deter me from
> > doing ibogaine again.  Ibogaine isn’t a very strong
> > “hallucinogen” it’s
> > equivalent to no more than roughly 300-500mcg of
> > LSD.  If the visions are
> > distressing, then just open your eyes, they will
> > recede.
> >
> > This is both good and bad.  What it amounts to is
> > walking into the lobby
> > where a movie is playing, you can go sit in the
> > movie, or if you don’t
> > like it, you can wander back out and land right on,
> > “fuck this, it didn’t
> > work, I knew it wouldn’t, nothing ever does, where’s
> > my dealer at…”
> > Ibogaine isn’t strong enough to FORCE you to
> > confront anything, you can
> > avoid it.  On 3-5mg+ of LSD you really, REALLY do
> > not have that option.
> > Whether you decide you want it or not at that point,
> > you’re going.
> >
> > On the flipside, LSD ain’t gonna do nothin’ ’bout
> > your habit.
> >
> > | Thanks for talk and your time, for me you made it
> > much
> > | eaisier to understand difference between ultra
> > rapid
> > | and other detox and what ibogaine feel like, but
> > you
> > | confuse me with 12 step and if you like ibogaine
> > or
> > | not.
> >
> > I like ibogaine, the 12-steps are something that
> > works out for some
> > people, and does damage to many more who are
> > subjected to this bullshit as
> > the “only answer,” to drug dependence, and confuse
> > their failure to get in
> > tune with this cult, as having anything whatsoever
> > to do with stepping out
> > of drug dependence.
> >
> > What that means: if you actually WANT to get off
> > drugs, and the 12-steps
> > don’t work out for you, it does not mean you’re
> > damned, not ready, or
> > hopeless; it just means maybe you should find
> > something else to do.
> >
> > Patrick
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
> http://mailplus.yahoo.com
>
>

From: MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine question seattle
Date: January 2, 2003 at 2:25:42 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Pure synthesized DMT and extracted Arcasia tree bark DMT
—– Original Message —–
From: “Bill Ross” <ross@cgl.ucsf.EDU>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 4:57 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine question seattle

I have dosed over 200 people on DMT

Marc, what form of DMT?

Bill Ross

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine question seattle
Date: January 1, 2003 at 9:01:17 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca> wrote:
I have gotten suggestions that MDMA could be helpful
after ibogaine, or DMT.

There was a report of MDMA hitting particularly hard
after ibogaine and 1 “ibogaine death” involved
possible use of MDMA and Ibogaine – not a good idea on
top of a bad ticker… Just FYI and likely due to
ibogaines effect on serotonin – well and XTC’s… too.

Brett

I have dosed more than 1,000 people in pure MDMA in
my recent eight years,
and I have dosed over 200 people on DMT in the last
5 years (more than
anyone else I know), but I haven’t considered it an
adjunct to the iboga
therapy yet.

I’m still exploring the vast potential and varieties
of uses for the
ibogaine, so it will be a while before I consider
powerful psychedelics as
part of therapy, if ever.

Marc Emery
Iboga Therapy House

—– Original Message —–
From: “Xiang Lee Chen” <xiangleechen@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 3:24 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine question seattle

Thank you, my questions then would be if you don’t
believe in the 12 steps then why did dr. mash say
that
you take people to meetings sometime? My other
question would be then do you feel lsd therapy and
psychedelics are useful for helping people get
abstinence from hard drugs?

My question for Marc Emery of Iboga Therapy House
is
do you plan to have any kind of spiritual use of
psychedelic drugs after the ibogaine?

Thank you

Xiang Chen
http://www.dom.washington.edu/sparx/

— “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
wrote:
On [Fri, Dec 27, 2002 at 05:52:01PM -0800],
[Xiang
Lee Chen] wrote:

| what I have read on mindvox answers some
questions
in
| parts but it’s not a sensibile whole. You are
very
| very smart and write extremely well but it is
like
you
| take pages and re arrange them in no right
order.
I
| cannot follow, I think this is intentional but
I
don’t
| understand mindvox at all except art, not
followable
| information

I’m just incoherent.

| My questions please.
|
| At Seattle when asked about the 12 steps you
gave
a
| nice reply and said that upward of 50% of
addicted
| persons who take ibogaine used the 12 steps.
In
this
| issue of heroin times you are very negative
about
12
| steps. I know you do not use them but you gave
very
| nice reply at talk, then wrote a article which
| completely invalidates them. I don’t
understand.

What’s in “this issue” of Heroin Times, is
sumthin’
I wrote ’bout 2 years
ago; he is simply recycling my material.  A lot
of
that particular space
in time, is just me working out my shit and
venting,
to sum it up, “HA!
Fuck all of you stupid fucking pieces of shit
who
ripped me off, handed me
lead weights while I was drowning and attempted
to
inflict psychological
damages on me while I was in an extremely
vulnerable
state.  Who’s still
standing is me, and who has gone down in fucking
flames are 95% of the
weak-willed idiots who ever got in my face with
their bullshit.”

In short, it’s an emotional response that
represents
my feelings about
being subjected to “drug treatment” and the
comedy
routine known as rehab.
But that was a while ago, and it’s kinda like,
okay,
the sun rose in the
east today, and the 12 steps still suck, so what
else is new.

The 12 steps are sumthin’ to do — other than
drugs.
They’re extremely
old eastern concepts for dismantling ego,
rewritten
and dumbed-down for
drug dependent individuals who are acclimated to
western culture.
Somewhere along the way, all of that turned into
the
Cult of Eternal
Powerlessness where you can sit and spin,
complain
about shit for all
eternity, and shine up the altar you’ve built to
your idealized former
self.

An organized alternative to the 12-steps, which
many
people on this list
seem to find useful is SMART.  I’ve never done
it
personally, but reading
through their spin control, I haven’t found much
I
disagree with.

Uhm, I dunno their URL offhand, Randy does I’m
sure.

| In JAMA article you are quoted as saying that
on
| ibogaine you “went to hell and got killed 1000
times”
| which is same as you said at talk when you did
| ibogaines to detox from drugs, but at your
talk
you
| gave very dark experiences but it was very
funny
not
| like you would not do ibogaine again, you said
you
| will do ibogaine again at talk. You also said
ibogaine
| very mild, not near as strong as LSD.

Yeah I did, it wasn’t much fun, but it certainly
didn’t deter me from
doing ibogaine again.  Ibogaine isn’t a very
strong
“hallucinogen” it’s
equivalent to no more than roughly 300-500mcg of
LSD.  If the visions are
distressing, then just open your eyes, they will
recede.

This is both good and bad.  What it amounts to
is
walking into the lobby
where a movie is playing, you can go sit in the
movie, or if you don’t
like it, you can wander back out and land right
on,
“fuck this, it didn’t
work, I knew it wouldn’t, nothing ever does,
where’s
my dealer at…”
Ibogaine isn’t strong enough to FORCE you to
confront anything, you can
avoid it.  On 3-5mg+ of LSD you really, REALLY
do
not have that option.
Whether you decide you want it or not at that
point,
you’re going.

On the flipside, LSD ain’t gonna do nothin’
’bout
your habit.

| Thanks for talk and your time, for me you made
it
much
| eaisier to understand difference between ultra
rapid
| and other detox and what ibogaine feel like,
but
you
| confuse me with 12 step and if you like
ibogaine
or
| not.

I like ibogaine, the 12-steps are something that
works out for some
people, and does damage to many more who are
subjected to this bullshit as
the “only answer,” to drug dependence, and
confuse
their failure to get in
tune with this cult, as having anything
whatsoever
to do with stepping out
of drug dependence.

What that means: if you actually WANT to get off
drugs, and the 12-steps
don’t work out for you, it does not mean you’re
damned, not ready, or
hopeless; it just means maybe you should find
something else to do.

Patrick

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up
now.
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__________________________________________________
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From: Bill Ross <ross@cgl.ucsf.EDU>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine question seattle
Date: January 1, 2003 at 7:57:44 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I have dosed over 200 people on DMT

Marc, what form of DMT?

Bill Ross

From: MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine question seattle
Date: January 1, 2003 at 7:36:36 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I have gotten suggestions that MDMA could be helpful after ibogaine, or DMT.

I have dosed more than 1,000 people in pure MDMA in my recent eight years,
and I have dosed over 200 people on DMT in the last 5 years (more than
anyone else I know), but I haven’t considered it an adjunct to the iboga
therapy yet.

I’m still exploring the vast potential and varieties of uses for the
ibogaine, so it will be a while before I consider powerful psychedelics as
part of therapy, if ever.

Marc Emery
Iboga Therapy House

—– Original Message —–
From: “Xiang Lee Chen” <xiangleechen@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 3:24 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine question seattle

Thank you, my questions then would be if you don’t
believe in the 12 steps then why did dr. mash say that
you take people to meetings sometime? My other
question would be then do you feel lsd therapy and
psychedelics are useful for helping people get
abstinence from hard drugs?

My question for Marc Emery of Iboga Therapy House is
do you plan to have any kind of spiritual use of
psychedelic drugs after the ibogaine?

Thank you

Xiang Chen
http://www.dom.washington.edu/sparx/

— “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> wrote:
On [Fri, Dec 27, 2002 at 05:52:01PM -0800], [Xiang
Lee Chen] wrote:

| what I have read on mindvox answers some questions
in
| parts but it’s not a sensibile whole. You are very
| very smart and write extremely well but it is like
you
| take pages and re arrange them in no right order.
I
| cannot follow, I think this is intentional but I
don’t
| understand mindvox at all except art, not
followable
| information

I’m just incoherent.

| My questions please.
|
| At Seattle when asked about the 12 steps you gave
a
| nice reply and said that upward of 50% of addicted
| persons who take ibogaine used the 12 steps. In
this
| issue of heroin times you are very negative about
12
| steps. I know you do not use them but you gave
very
| nice reply at talk, then wrote a article which
| completely invalidates them. I don’t understand.

What’s in “this issue” of Heroin Times, is sumthin’
I wrote ’bout 2 years
ago; he is simply recycling my material.  A lot of
that particular space
in time, is just me working out my shit and venting,
to sum it up, “HA!
Fuck all of you stupid fucking pieces of shit who
ripped me off, handed me
lead weights while I was drowning and attempted to
inflict psychological
damages on me while I was in an extremely vulnerable
state.  Who’s still
standing is me, and who has gone down in fucking
flames are 95% of the
weak-willed idiots who ever got in my face with
their bullshit.”

In short, it’s an emotional response that represents
my feelings about
being subjected to “drug treatment” and the comedy
routine known as rehab.
But that was a while ago, and it’s kinda like, okay,
the sun rose in the
east today, and the 12 steps still suck, so what
else is new.

The 12 steps are sumthin’ to do — other than drugs.
They’re extremely
old eastern concepts for dismantling ego, rewritten
and dumbed-down for
drug dependent individuals who are acclimated to
western culture.
Somewhere along the way, all of that turned into the
Cult of Eternal
Powerlessness where you can sit and spin, complain
about shit for all
eternity, and shine up the altar you’ve built to
your idealized former
self.

An organized alternative to the 12-steps, which many
people on this list
seem to find useful is SMART.  I’ve never done it
personally, but reading
through their spin control, I haven’t found much I
disagree with.

Uhm, I dunno their URL offhand, Randy does I’m sure.

| In JAMA article you are quoted as saying that on
| ibogaine you “went to hell and got killed 1000
times”
| which is same as you said at talk when you did
| ibogaines to detox from drugs, but at your talk
you
| gave very dark experiences but it was very funny
not
| like you would not do ibogaine again, you said you
| will do ibogaine again at talk. You also said
ibogaine
| very mild, not near as strong as LSD.

Yeah I did, it wasn’t much fun, but it certainly
didn’t deter me from
doing ibogaine again.  Ibogaine isn’t a very strong
“hallucinogen” it’s
equivalent to no more than roughly 300-500mcg of
LSD.  If the visions are
distressing, then just open your eyes, they will
recede.

This is both good and bad.  What it amounts to is
walking into the lobby
where a movie is playing, you can go sit in the
movie, or if you don’t
like it, you can wander back out and land right on,
“fuck this, it didn’t
work, I knew it wouldn’t, nothing ever does, where’s
my dealer at…”
Ibogaine isn’t strong enough to FORCE you to
confront anything, you can
avoid it.  On 3-5mg+ of LSD you really, REALLY do
not have that option.
Whether you decide you want it or not at that point,
you’re going.

On the flipside, LSD ain’t gonna do nothin’ ’bout
your habit.

| Thanks for talk and your time, for me you made it
much
| eaisier to understand difference between ultra
rapid
| and other detox and what ibogaine feel like, but
you
| confuse me with 12 step and if you like ibogaine
or
| not.

I like ibogaine, the 12-steps are something that
works out for some
people, and does damage to many more who are
subjected to this bullshit as
the “only answer,” to drug dependence, and confuse
their failure to get in
tune with this cult, as having anything whatsoever
to do with stepping out
of drug dependence.

What that means: if you actually WANT to get off
drugs, and the 12-steps
don’t work out for you, it does not mean you’re
damned, not ready, or
hopeless; it just means maybe you should find
something else to do.

Patrick

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

From: Xiang Lee Chen <xiangleechen@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine question seattle
Date: January 1, 2003 at 6:24:59 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thank you, my questions then would be if you don’t
believe in the 12 steps then why did dr. mash say that
you take people to meetings sometime? My other
question would be then do you feel lsd therapy and
psychedelics are useful for helping people get
abstinence from hard drugs?

My question for Marc Emery of Iboga Therapy House is
do you plan to have any kind of spiritual use of
psychedelic drugs after the ibogaine?

Thank you

Xiang Chen
http://www.dom.washington.edu/sparx/

— “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> wrote:
On [Fri, Dec 27, 2002 at 05:52:01PM -0800], [Xiang
Lee Chen] wrote:

| what I have read on mindvox answers some questions
in
| parts but it’s not a sensibile whole. You are very
| very smart and write extremely well but it is like
you
| take pages and re arrange them in no right order.
I
| cannot follow, I think this is intentional but I
don’t
| understand mindvox at all except art, not
followable
| information

I’m just incoherent.

| My questions please.
|
| At Seattle when asked about the 12 steps you gave
a
| nice reply and said that upward of 50% of addicted
| persons who take ibogaine used the 12 steps. In
this
| issue of heroin times you are very negative about
12
| steps. I know you do not use them but you gave
very
| nice reply at talk, then wrote a article which
| completely invalidates them. I don’t understand.

What’s in “this issue” of Heroin Times, is sumthin’
I wrote ’bout 2 years
ago; he is simply recycling my material.  A lot of
that particular space
in time, is just me working out my shit and venting,
to sum it up, “HA!
Fuck all of you stupid fucking pieces of shit who
ripped me off, handed me
lead weights while I was drowning and attempted to
inflict psychological
damages on me while I was in an extremely vulnerable
state.  Who’s still
standing is me, and who has gone down in fucking
flames are 95% of the
weak-willed idiots who ever got in my face with
their bullshit.”

In short, it’s an emotional response that represents
my feelings about
being subjected to “drug treatment” and the comedy
routine known as rehab.
But that was a while ago, and it’s kinda like, okay,
the sun rose in the
east today, and the 12 steps still suck, so what
else is new.

The 12 steps are sumthin’ to do — other than drugs.
They’re extremely
old eastern concepts for dismantling ego, rewritten
and dumbed-down for
drug dependent individuals who are acclimated to
western culture.
Somewhere along the way, all of that turned into the
Cult of Eternal
Powerlessness where you can sit and spin, complain
about shit for all
eternity, and shine up the altar you’ve built to
your idealized former
self.

An organized alternative to the 12-steps, which many
people on this list
seem to find useful is SMART.  I’ve never done it
personally, but reading
through their spin control, I haven’t found much I
disagree with.

Uhm, I dunno their URL offhand, Randy does I’m sure.

| In JAMA article you are quoted as saying that on
| ibogaine you “went to hell and got killed 1000
times”
| which is same as you said at talk when you did
| ibogaines to detox from drugs, but at your talk
you
| gave very dark experiences but it was very funny
not
| like you would not do ibogaine again, you said you
| will do ibogaine again at talk. You also said
ibogaine
| very mild, not near as strong as LSD.

Yeah I did, it wasn’t much fun, but it certainly
didn’t deter me from
doing ibogaine again.  Ibogaine isn’t a very strong
“hallucinogen” it’s
equivalent to no more than roughly 300-500mcg of
LSD.  If the visions are
distressing, then just open your eyes, they will
recede.

This is both good and bad.  What it amounts to is
walking into the lobby
where a movie is playing, you can go sit in the
movie, or if you don’t
like it, you can wander back out and land right on,
“fuck this, it didn’t
work, I knew it wouldn’t, nothing ever does, where’s
my dealer at…”
Ibogaine isn’t strong enough to FORCE you to
confront anything, you can
avoid it.  On 3-5mg+ of LSD you really, REALLY do
not have that option.
Whether you decide you want it or not at that point,
you’re going.

On the flipside, LSD ain’t gonna do nothin’ ’bout
your habit.

| Thanks for talk and your time, for me you made it
much
| eaisier to understand difference between ultra
rapid
| and other detox and what ibogaine feel like, but
you
| confuse me with 12 step and if you like ibogaine
or
| not.

I like ibogaine, the 12-steps are something that
works out for some
people, and does damage to many more who are
subjected to this bullshit as
the “only answer,” to drug dependence, and confuse
their failure to get in
tune with this cult, as having anything whatsoever
to do with stepping out
of drug dependence.

What that means: if you actually WANT to get off
drugs, and the 12-steps
don’t work out for you, it does not mean you’re
damned, not ready, or
hopeless; it just means maybe you should find
something else to do.

Patrick

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

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