Ibogaine List Archives – 2005-11

From: Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Just kinda noticing
Date: November 30, 2005 at 11:25:03 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Seems like our IBO peeps kinda withdraw for a while after treatment. No complaints, just an observation. I’m sure a rigorous “Readjustment” involves a rethinking of life and calling out in it’s entirety.
Just wandering aimlessly, wondering about Kirk and Brenda. Luv ya too, Matt.
I’ll shut up now….
Bee
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From: Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: questions
Date: November 30, 2005 at 11:09:51 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Lee,
In a perfect world, where I could obtain this stuff, if you were 205 and had access to HCL, what would you think about? Quantity-wise??
Lee Albert wrote:
Pascal,
189lbs=approx.86Kg. At 86kg, 1.5grams=17.4mg/kg, a pretty strong dose for a first time if you are not drug dependent. If you check the amounts required for drug dependence you will see that with a body weight of 70kg over 1g is taken.
The reason you probably didn’t get an answer is because this is well documented and so your question got overlooked I imagine.
Hope that helps.
Lee
pascall roland <pascal-roland@hotmail.com> wrote:
no reply whatsoever, unless I do not know where to fish the answers….
it seems to be more comfortable to comment endlessly about iboga’s effect on
ego/mind than elaborating on iboga’s ways of use and consumption.
this leaves me the impression that those who worked on iboga remained
someway in the realm of experimentary ways, leaving out the scientific
approach.
only the Bwitis might be able to keep out of the scientific approach, as
they benefit of a long, old oral tradition.
sincerely,
P.R.
>From: Nowwarat@aol.com
>To: pascal-roland@hotmail.com
>Subject: questions
>Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 08:06:34 EST
>
>Add to those thoughtful questions another one. Has anyone actually taken
>over one gram of Ibo Hcl? People say to take one and a half grams if you
>weight
>around189. But people talk about taking one gram but not more. At least in
>my
>brief research.
>
>Bruce
_________________________________________________________________
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Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
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From: Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: questions
Date: November 30, 2005 at 11:00:40 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I gotta pick on this one….Not you, Lee, response much appreciated and noted.
it seems to be more comfortable to comment endlessly about iboga’s effect on
ego/mind than elaborating on iboga’s ways of use and consumption.
The two are interrelated, the “Endlessly” adjective impunes your quest. I get fed up here, too, and the group has been more than patient with me. Think of this as a dinner party and you had just made that announcement. We are not here solely for you, and etiquette gets respect.
this leaves me the impression that those who worked on iboga remained
someway in the realm of experimentary ways, leaving out the scientific
approach.
One, it IS experimental, and two, scientific “Approach” by it’s name, implies experimentation. The words “Worked” and “Remained” imply the past tense, you have simply nullified your own sentence. You cannot “Have worked” on an “Approach”, either there is a conclusion or it is ongoing, and leaving out “Approach” from “Working” or worked negates the action. Kinda like saying ” The chain fell off my bicycle, therefore, no thought was ever given to my bicycle chain, other than an experiment, and those that thought of it obviously didn’t comprehend that if it could fall off and be useless, that it wasn’t needed in the first place”. Is that “Someway in the realm” of whatever you meant to say?
only the Bwitis might be able to keep out of the scientific approach, as
they benefit of a long, old oral tradition.
I’d be really appreciative if you could state your point, rather than your dissatisfaction. This is Rain Forest stuff, hidden knowledge, we have Doctors here, and, there is no formula derived as of yet. Sorry. The alternative is to buy a bag of dirt from some guy with no teeth, cook it up and inject it, bypassing ANY natural abilities to filter out garbage BEFORE it gets to our brain, as well as bypass any common sense. Then, by demanding fatality rates and wrapping prejucial questions,  possible eradication of an epidemic is overlooked.  Hear me, I said “Possible”. Much research needs and will be done.
I got gripes about this place, too, dude, but I think you have underestimated the clientele. We actually form ideas here, if you wanna spout disassociative drivel, please form cognitive sentences or at least don’t complain that you are being ignored.
Bee
Lee Albert wrote:
Pascal,
189lbs=approx.86Kg. At 86kg, 1.5grams=17.4mg/kg, a pretty strong dose for a first time if you are not drug dependent. If you check the amounts required for drug dependence you will see that with a body weight of 70kg over 1g is taken.
The reason you probably didn’t get an answer is because this is well documented and so your question got overlooked I imagine.
Hope that helps.
Lee
pascall roland <pascal-roland@hotmail.com> wrote:
no reply whatsoever, unless I do not know where to fish the answers….
it seems to be more comfortable to comment endlessly about iboga’s effect on
ego/mind than elaborating on iboga’s ways of use and consumption.
this leaves me the impression that those who worked on iboga remained
someway in the realm of experimentary ways, leaving out the scientific
approach.
only the Bwitis might be able to keep out of the scientific approach, as
they benefit of a long, old oral tradition.
sincerely,
P.R.
>From: Nowwarat@aol.com
>To: pascal-roland@hotmail.com
>Subject: questions
>Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 08:06:34 EST
>
>Add to those thoughtful questions another one. Has anyone actually taken
>over one gram of Ibo Hcl? People say to take one and a half grams if you
>weight
>around189. But people talk about taking one gram but not more. At least in
>my
>brief research.
>
>Bruce
_________________________________________________________________
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Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
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From: Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: questions
Date: November 30, 2005 at 7:45:46 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Vec, be nice, jeez!
Vector Vector wrote:
Everything that Jon said 😉
Besides that you’re asking the same questions that have already been
asked and answered here 2000 times, so I’d guess that the people most
qualified to give your answers have gotten bored of it by now and may
occasionally say something if they read your message. This list can be
very high traffic sometimes and alot of people only read messages from
authors whose names they recongize and are interested in. or who use a
descriptive subject line 😉
If you had looked, the same people here who would answer have already
written out detailed articles about the exact things you asked anyway.
http://www.ibogaine.org/manual.html
‘Standard’ treatment dose from above and
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/Articles/MAPS-Ibogaine.pdf
16-18 mg per kg, so obviously many people are doing more then a gram at
once for addiction interruption.
Lots of people here have detoxed from 10 years plus on opiates, high
doses of methadone, and so on.
Every question you asked can be answered using the first page of google
http://www.google.com/search?q=ibogaine
Which leads you right back to the main ibogaine sites, Howard’s
ibogaine.org, Nick’s ibogaine.co.uk, Patrick and Mindvox (you are here)
and Dana Beal’s site.
If you’d bothered to do even the most basic research and then asked
more questions, probably people would have been more helpful. Expecting
people to act as your personal help desk and reference for no charge is
maybe asking a bit much 😉
Still no matter what, there’s always going to be someone here who will
give you their personal experience.
.:vector:.
— jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu> wrote:
Nevertheless, and even so I did not complete all the reading as I
should, the impression grows that after over 40 years of
experimental
studies and numerous clinical observations, not neglectable grey
zones
remain. At least, that’s how it appears to me by now, and that’s
the
main reason making me hesitating to book a ticket on an iboga
aeroplane.
Well, think about this… how many people have taken ibogaine in the
last 40 years? maybe a few thousand?
Now, how many people have smoked cannabis in the same time? a few
hundred million? maybe more?
And we’re not a much closer to a full understanding of how cannabis
works than we are to a full understanding of how ibogaine works. In
fact, we’ve only had an inkling of how cannabis works for the past 15
years, while we’ve had some idea how ibogaine works for the past 20
years or so.
Now, I don’t know if those usage numbers are quite right, but you get
my
point. It takes a long time and many, many administrations (and
usually
lots of money) to understand how a drug works. Make no mistake,
ibogaine
is an EXPERIMENTAL medication. While we have some idea how best to
use
it, thanks to the many years of hard work of people like Howard, Dr.
Mash, etc., we still have a great deal to learn about it. And the
only
way we can learn more about it is by observing more people who take
it.
If you decide to take ibogaine, you are, at least in some sense,
volunteering as a guinea pig.
Whether or not ibogaine is a good choice for you can only be decided
by
YOU. How badly do you need to get off your drug of choice? How much
risk
is it worth taking to try to get clean?
For example, compared to the risks of shooting heroin every day, the
risks of taking ibogaine are minimal. Yes, people have died from
taking
ibogaine. But a heroin user is far more likely to die from HIV,
hepatitis, overdose, getting shot trying to score, etc, than they
would
be if they took ibogaine.
As with any medication, it’s a matter of balancing the potential
benefits with the potential risks.
__________________________________
Yahoo! Music Unlimited
Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (OT) but very, very funny
Date: November 30, 2005 at 4:21:32 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I’ve no idea what those were commercials for, but that penguin made me laugh out loud.
Peace and love,
Preston
—– Original Message —– From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 12:05 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (OT) but very, very funny
I love animals! The penguin was so cute! What is the commercial for? I can’t read or speak Dutch or is it French? Whatever it is, I can’t speak it!!! Doesn’t matter it is funny!
Callie
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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: questions
Date: November 30, 2005 at 3:52:47 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In a message dated 11/30/05 11:19:18 AM, pascal-roland@hotmail.com writes:
yr guidance was highly helpful as I most probably overlooked that section
during my erratic internet search.
Hi, I think you mentioned in a prior email you are from Iran.  I am attaching a pdf file of a paper on the Bam earthquake and the Iranian response.  I was hoping you might comment from a user perspective.
Thanks
Howard
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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: questions
Date: November 30, 2005 at 3:27:52 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In a message dated 11/30/05 11:19:18 AM, pascal-roland@hotmail.com writes:
I’m ignorant about heroine effects, although opium is the mother extract,
but imagine a +/-12 years opium consentant opium hostage. How can he face
the idea of waking up after hours of iboga visions, undergoing the pain of
withdrawal without being allowed to use his drug to cut the pain? At the
risk to being listed as one of the some reported fatalities.
Two things.  One, you throw the dice and take your chances and two, hopefully you have a skilled provider who can adjust dose or give adjunct medications.  Most +/- 12 year opium users can figure things out.  Do not consider this advice.  I  can see others messages coming in most likely proving advice so we will both see.
Howard
From: Luke Christoffersen <luke.christoffersen@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: questions
Date: November 30, 2005 at 3:18:05 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Matt,
Was 25mg/kg your last trip?  Did you take it in one does?
Luke
On 11/30/05, matthew zielinski <mattzielinski@hotmail.com> wrote:
Hi
Yah its funny how people complain about useless talk but dont even take time
to answer legitimate questions people ask
Bruce i just took around 25mg/kg without being dependent on anything but
life :}
Pacal —i think u ll get more responses if you adress the particular
question in the subject line becuase most people dont bother opening their
mail unless they see something that interests them
love
m
________________________________
From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: questions
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 09:31:15 +0000 (GMT)
Pascal,
189lbs=approx.86Kg. At 86kg, 1.5grams=17.4mg/kg, a pretty strong dose for a
first time if you are not drug dependent. If you check the amounts required
for drug dependence you will see that with a body weight of 70kg over 1g is
taken.
The reason you probably didn’t get an answer is because this is well
documented and so your question got overlooked I imagine.
Hope that helps.
Lee
pascall roland <pascal-roland@hotmail.com> wrote:
no reply whatsoever, unless I do not know where to fish the answers….
it seems to be more comfortable to comment endlessly about iboga’s effect on
ego/mind than elaborating on iboga’s ways of use and consumption.
this leaves me the impression that those who worked on iboga remained
someway in the realm of experimentary ways, leaving out the scientific
approach.
only the Bwitis might be able to keep out of the scientific approach, as
they benefit of a long, old oral tradition.
sincerely,
P.R.
From: Nowwarat@aol.com
To: pascal-roland@hotmail.com
Subject: questions
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 08:06:34 EST
Add to those thoughtful questions another one. Has anyone actually taken
over one gram of Ibo Hcl? People say to take one and a half grams if you
weight
around189. But people talk about taking one gram but not more. At least in
my
brief research.
Bruce
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it’s FREE!
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
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Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six
year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those
already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
________________________________
Help protect your PC with Virus Guard from MSN Premium: Join now and get the
first two months FREE*
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From: Luke Christoffersen <luke.christoffersen@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] urgent message from the bwiti gang
Date: November 30, 2005 at 3:10:18 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Wow.  I didn’t try to see if it worked with other people, just my arms.
Must try to check that one out next time. 🙂
On 11/30/05, Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Yes, I did, that’s for sure. I could see all sorts of things I was doing,
and others too (even if I couldn’t always recognize them) in the room or in
my bed with my eyes closed.
Very weird but also very, very cool.
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —–
From: “Luke Christoffersen” <luke.christoffersen@gmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 4:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] urgent message from the bwiti gang
I noticed that if I move my arm in front of my face while on ibogaine
I can see my arm even when my eyes are closed.  I wonder has anyone
else seen this!
Luke
On 11/28/05, matthew zielinski <mattzielinski@hotmail.com> wrote:
brown paper box with handles made to hold it on both sides….two african
fellows staring intently into it, each holding one side and shaking
vigourously, puting it down sifting through it with both hands and
repeating
the process
crazy bwiti :]
any other comments about the hcl?….i m really curious about this because
before i started vomiting i had this amazing ability to xray some parts of
my body and i saw my stomach lining filled with a greenish yeloowish
sesspool of god knows what and immieditly i thought oh fuk the hcl and
thats
when i started vomiting—–fuken disgusting shit!!!!!
one love
matt
________________________________
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] urgent message from the bwiti gang
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 12:54:05 EST
In a message dated 11/28/05 12:27:45 PM, mattzielinski@hotmail.com writes:
No they didnt say where it was but they were sifting through a large box
that was briming with it……
Please elaborate on what you mean by this >>>>>>>They cannot see that the
division between what is man-made and what is nature-made is purely in the
mind
What did the box look like?
Howard
________________________________
Don’t just Search. Find! The new MSN Search: Fast. Clear. Easy.
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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: questions
Date: November 30, 2005 at 2:40:22 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Everything that Jon said 😉
Besides that you’re asking the same questions that have already been
asked and answered here 2000 times, so I’d guess that the people most
qualified to give your answers have gotten bored of it by now and may
occasionally say something if they read your message. This list can be
very high traffic sometimes and alot of people only read messages from
authors whose names they recongize and are interested in. or who use a
descriptive subject line 😉
If you had looked, the same people here who would answer have already
written out detailed articles about the exact things you asked anyway.
http://www.ibogaine.org/manual.html
‘Standard’ treatment dose from above and
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/Articles/MAPS-Ibogaine.pdf
16-18 mg per kg, so obviously many people are doing more then a gram at
once for addiction interruption.
Lots of people here have detoxed from 10 years plus on opiates, high
doses of methadone, and so on.
Every question you asked can be answered using the first page of google
http://www.google.com/search?q=ibogaine
Which leads you right back to the main ibogaine sites, Howard’s
ibogaine.org, Nick’s ibogaine.co.uk, Patrick and Mindvox (you are here)
and Dana Beal’s site.
If you’d bothered to do even the most basic research and then asked
more questions, probably people would have been more helpful. Expecting
people to act as your personal help desk and reference for no charge is
maybe asking a bit much 😉
Still no matter what, there’s always going to be someone here who will
give you their personal experience.
.:vector:.
— jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu> wrote:
Nevertheless, and even so I did not complete all the reading as I
should, the impression grows that after over 40 years of
experimental
studies and numerous clinical observations, not neglectable grey
zones
remain. At least, that’s how it appears to me by now, and that’s
the
main reason making me hesitating to book a ticket on an iboga
aeroplane.
Well, think about this… how many people have taken ibogaine in the
last 40 years? maybe a few thousand?
Now, how many people have smoked cannabis in the same time? a few
hundred million? maybe more?
And we’re not a much closer to a full understanding of how cannabis
works than we are to a full understanding of how ibogaine works. In
fact, we’ve only had an inkling of how cannabis works for the past 15
years, while we’ve had some idea how ibogaine works for the past 20
years or so.
Now, I don’t know if those usage numbers are quite right, but you get
my
point. It takes a long time and many, many administrations (and
usually
lots of money) to understand how a drug works. Make no mistake,
ibogaine
is an EXPERIMENTAL medication. While we have some idea how best to
use
it, thanks to the many years of hard work of people like Howard, Dr.
Mash, etc., we still have a great deal to learn about it. And the
only
way we can learn more about it is by observing more people who take
it.
If you decide to take ibogaine, you are, at least in some sense,
volunteering as a guinea pig.
Whether or not ibogaine is a good choice for you can only be decided
by
YOU. How badly do you need to get off your drug of choice? How much
risk
is it worth taking to try to get clean?
For example, compared to the risks of shooting heroin every day, the
risks of taking ibogaine are minimal. Yes, people have died from
taking
ibogaine. But a heroin user is far more likely to die from HIV,
hepatitis, overdose, getting shot trying to score, etc, than they
would
be if they took ibogaine.
As with any medication, it’s a matter of balancing the potential
benefits with the potential risks.
__________________________________
Yahoo! Music Unlimited
Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/
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From: shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] RE: questions
Date: November 30, 2005 at 1:12:35 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Pascall & all, if you are concerned about residual withdrawal,there isnt really much in my experience ,especially compared to any other method ,unless you are doing long acting opiates like methadone ,buprenorphine, if I am reading correctly ,is that your concern?Best wishes -shell
Matthew Shriver <matt@itsupport.net> wrote:
Pascall
I think the lack of definitive, authoritative, answers lies as much in the
fact that no-one with the money and clout to do so, wants to touch ibogaine
as anything else. The reasons are numerous, from its illegal status in some
places, to the stigma attached to drug addiction to begin with, to the
unprofitable nature of a drug that isn’t taken regularly. So almost no-one
in the medical/scientific community has been able to make much happen with
getting it properly researched and studied with the result that most of the
research is being done by underground providers who only have lists like
this and the internet to help share information with each other.
I can tell you from personal experience with an 8+ year opiate addiction,
about half on heroin and half on methadone with occasional heroin use, that
if it wasn’t for ibogaine I doubt I would be clean today 2 and half years
later. There are many more people on this list who can also tell you the
same thing from their own personal experience.
It’s a risk to be sure. The risk of death and the risk that it might not
work for you are both real. But for me it came down to the fact that
absolutely nothing else had worked for me. I gave everything that I heard
could work multiple chances, including ibogaine, and in the end it was
through ibogaine that I finally got clean. But ultimately it’s your
decision to make. Hang around here, read about it on the internet, and then
decide.
Matt
—–Original Message—–
From: pascall roland [mailto:pascal-roland@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 7:24 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: questions
Dear Mr. Lotsof,
yr guidance was highly helpful as I most probably overlooked that section
during my erratic internet search.
amen
Nevertheless, and even so I did not complete all the reading as I should,
the impression grows that after over 40 years of experimental studies and
numerous clinical observations, not neglectable grey zones remain. At least,
that’s how it appears to me by now, and that’s the main reason making me
hesitating to book a ticket on an iboga aeroplane.
I’m ignorant about heroine effects, although opium is the mother extract,
but imagine a +/-12 years opium consentant opium hostage. How can he face
the idea of waking up after hours of iboga visions, undergoing the pain of
withdrawal without being allowed to use his drug to cut the pain? At the
risk to being listed as one of the some reported fatalities.
Only relief by now lies in continuing my readings, and hopefully come to a
conclusion.
b.r.
p.r.
>From: HSLotsof@aol.com
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: questions
>Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 02:39:54 EST
>
>
>In a message dated 11/30/05 1:03:30 AM, pascal-roland@hotmail.com writes:
>
>
> > no reply whatsoever, unless I do not know where to fish the answers….
> >
> >
>
>http://www.ibogaine.org/science.html
>
>Check out the papers in the clinical section. You can also check out the
>patent section.
>
>There is diversity of opinion and ibogaine is experimental.
>
>Howard
_________________________________________________________________
Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
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Yahoo! Personals
Single? There’s someone we’d like you to meet.
Lots of someones, actually. Yahoo! Personals
From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: questions
Date: November 30, 2005 at 11:59:56 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Nevertheless, and even so I did not complete all the reading as I should, the impression grows that after over 40 years of experimental studies and numerous clinical observations, not neglectable grey zones remain. At least, that’s how it appears to me by now, and that’s the main reason making me hesitating to book a ticket on an iboga aeroplane.
Well, think about this… how many people have taken ibogaine in the last 40 years? maybe a few thousand?
Now, how many people have smoked cannabis in the same time? a few hundred million? maybe more?
And we’re not a much closer to a full understanding of how cannabis works than we are to a full understanding of how ibogaine works. In fact, we’ve only had an inkling of how cannabis works for the past 15 years, while we’ve had some idea how ibogaine works for the past 20 years or so.
Now, I don’t know if those usage numbers are quite right, but you get my point. It takes a long time and many, many administrations (and usually lots of money) to understand how a drug works. Make no mistake, ibogaine is an EXPERIMENTAL medication. While we have some idea how best to use it, thanks to the many years of hard work of people like Howard, Dr. Mash, etc., we still have a great deal to learn about it. And the only way we can learn more about it is by observing more people who take it. If you decide to take ibogaine, you are, at least in some sense, volunteering as a guinea pig.
Whether or not ibogaine is a good choice for you can only be decided by YOU. How badly do you need to get off your drug of choice? How much risk is it worth taking to try to get clean?
For example, compared to the risks of shooting heroin every day, the risks of taking ibogaine are minimal. Yes, people have died from taking ibogaine. But a heroin user is far more likely to die from HIV, hepatitis, overdose, getting shot trying to score, etc, than they would be if they took ibogaine.
As with any medication, it’s a matter of balancing the potential benefits with the potential risks.
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Matthew Shriver” <matt@itsupport.net>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] RE: questions
Date: November 30, 2005 at 9:41:13 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Pascall
I think the lack of definitive, authoritative, answers lies as much in the
fact that no-one with the money and clout to do so, wants to touch ibogaine
as anything else.  The reasons are numerous, from its illegal status in some
places, to the stigma attached to drug addiction to begin with, to the
unprofitable nature of a drug that isn’t taken regularly.  So almost no-one
in the medical/scientific community has been able to make much happen with
getting it properly researched and studied with the result that most of the
research is being done by underground providers who only have lists like
this and the internet to help share information with each other.
I can tell you from personal experience with an 8+ year opiate addiction,
about half on heroin and half on methadone with occasional heroin use, that
if it wasn’t for ibogaine I doubt I would be clean today 2 and half years
later.  There are many more people on this list who can also tell you the
same thing from their own personal experience.
It’s a risk to be sure.  The risk of death and the risk that it might not
work for you are both real.  But for me it came down to the fact that
absolutely nothing else had worked for me.  I gave everything that I heard
could work multiple chances, including ibogaine, and in the end it was
through ibogaine that I finally got clean.  But ultimately it’s your
decision to make.  Hang around here, read about it on the internet, and then
decide.
Matt
—–Original Message—–
From: pascall roland [mailto:pascal-roland@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 7:24 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: questions
Dear Mr. Lotsof,
yr guidance was highly helpful as I most probably overlooked that section
during my erratic internet search.
amen
Nevertheless, and even so I did not complete all the reading as I should,
the impression grows that after over 40 years of experimental studies and
numerous clinical observations, not neglectable grey zones remain. At least,
that’s how it appears to me by now, and that’s the main reason making me
hesitating to book a ticket on an iboga aeroplane.
I’m ignorant about heroine effects, although opium is the mother extract,
but imagine a +/-12 years opium consentant opium hostage. How can he face
the idea of waking up after hours of iboga visions, undergoing the pain of
withdrawal without being allowed to use his drug to cut the pain? At the
risk to being listed as one of the some reported fatalities.
Only relief by now lies in continuing my readings, and hopefully come to a
conclusion.
b.r.
p.r.
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: questions
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 02:39:54 EST
In a message dated 11/30/05 1:03:30 AM, pascal-roland@hotmail.com writes:
no reply whatsoever, unless I do not know where to fish the answers….
http://www.ibogaine.org/science.html
Check out the papers in the clinical section.   You can also check out the
patent section.
There is diversity of opinion and ibogaine is experimental.
Howard
_________________________________________________________________
Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
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From: “pascall roland” <pascal-roland@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Sotheby Iboga auction online….register now!
Date: November 30, 2005 at 9:31:31 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Matt,
good to read from you.
You might be right,
best regards from Tehran……..
From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: questions
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 09:26:32 -0500
Hi
Yah its funny how people complain about useless talk but dont even take time to answer legitimate questions people ask
Bruce i just took around 25mg/kg without being dependent on anything but life :}
Pacal —i think u ll get more responses if you adress the particular question in the subject line becuase most people dont bother opening their mail unless they see something that interests them
love
m
From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: questions
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 09:31:15 +0000 (GMT)
Pascal,
189lbs=approx.86Kg. At 86kg, 1.5grams=17.4mg/kg, a pretty strong dose for a first time if you are not drug dependent. If you check the amounts required for drug dependence you will see that with a body weight of 70kg over 1g is taken.
The reason you probably didn’t get an answer is because this is well documented and so your question got overlooked I imagine.
Hope that helps.
Lee
pascall roland <pascal-roland@hotmail.com> wrote:
no reply whatsoever, unless I do not know where to fish the answers….
it seems to be more comfortable to comment endlessly about iboga’s effect on
ego/mind than elaborating on iboga’s ways of use and consumption.
this leaves me the impression that those who worked on iboga remained
someway in the realm of experimentary ways, leaving out the scientific
approach.
only the Bwitis might be able to keep out of the scientific approach, as
they benefit of a long, old oral tradition.
sincerely,
P.R.
>From: Nowwarat@aol.com
>To: pascal-roland@hotmail.com
>Subject: questions
>Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 08:06:34 EST
>
>Add to those thoughtful questions another one. Has anyone actually taken
>over one
gram of Ibo Hcl? People say to take one and a half grams if you
>weight
>around189. But people talk about taking one gram but not more. At least in
>my
>brief research.
>
>Bruce
_________________________________________________________________
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http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
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Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
Help protect your PC with Virus Guard from   MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE*
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_________________________________________________________________
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From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: questions
Date: November 30, 2005 at 9:26:32 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi
Yah its funny how people complain about useless talk but dont even take time to answer legitimate questions people ask
Bruce i just took around 25mg/kg without being dependent on anything but life :}
Pacal —i think u ll get more responses if you adress the particular question in the subject line becuase most people dont bother opening their mail unless they see something that interests them
love
m
From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: questions
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 09:31:15 +0000 (GMT)
Pascal,
189lbs=approx.86Kg. At 86kg, 1.5grams=17.4mg/kg, a pretty strong dose for a first time if you are not drug dependent. If you check the amounts required for drug dependence you will see that with a body weight of 70kg over 1g is taken.
The reason you probably didn’t get an answer is because this is well documented and so your question got overlooked I imagine.
Hope that helps.
Lee
pascall roland <pascal-roland@hotmail.com> wrote:
no reply whatsoever, unless I do not know where to fish the answers….
it seems to be more comfortable to comment endlessly about iboga’s effect on
ego/mind than elaborating on iboga’s ways of use and consumption.
this leaves me the impression that those who worked on iboga remained
someway in the realm of experimentary ways, leaving out the scientific
approach.
only the Bwitis might be able to keep out of the scientific approach, as
they benefit of a long, old oral tradition.
sincerely,
P.R.
>From: Nowwarat@aol.com
>To: pascal-roland@hotmail.com
>Subject: questions
>Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 08:06:34 EST
>
>Add to those thoughtful questions another one. Has anyone actually taken
>over one gram of Ibo Hcl? People say to take one and a half grams if you
>weight
>around189. But people talk about taking one gram but not more. At least in
>my
>brief research.
>
>Bruce
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it’s FREE!
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
Help protect your PC with Virus Guard from MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: “pascall roland” <pascal-roland@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: questions
Date: November 30, 2005 at 9:24:06 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Dear Mr. Lotsof,
yr guidance was highly helpful as I most probably overlooked that section during my erratic internet search.
amen
Nevertheless, and even so I did not complete all the reading as I should, the impression grows that after over 40 years of experimental studies and numerous clinical observations, not neglectable grey zones remain. At least, that’s how it appears to me by now, and that’s the main reason making me hesitating to book a ticket on an iboga aeroplane.
I’m ignorant about heroine effects, although opium is the mother extract, but imagine a +/-12 years opium consentant opium hostage. How can he face the idea of waking up after hours of iboga visions, undergoing the pain of withdrawal without being allowed to use his drug to cut the pain? At the risk to being listed as one of the some reported fatalities.
Only relief by now lies in continuing my readings, and hopefully come to a conclusion.
b.r.
p.r.
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: questions
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 02:39:54 EST
In a message dated 11/30/05 1:03:30 AM, pascal-roland@hotmail.com writes:
> no reply whatsoever, unless I do not know where to fish the answers….
>
>
http://www.ibogaine.org/science.html
Check out the papers in the clinical section.   You can also check out the
patent section.
There is diversity of opinion and ibogaine is experimental.
Howard
_________________________________________________________________
Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: questions
Date: November 30, 2005 at 4:31:15 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Pascal,
189lbs=approx.86Kg. At 86kg, 1.5grams=17.4mg/kg, a pretty strong dose for a first time if you are not drug dependent. If you check the amounts required for drug dependence you will see that with a body weight of 70kg over 1g is taken.
The reason you probably didn’t get an answer is because this is well documented and so your question got overlooked I imagine.
Hope that helps.
Lee
pascall roland <pascal-roland@hotmail.com> wrote:
no reply whatsoever, unless I do not know where to fish the answers….
it seems to be more comfortable to comment endlessly about iboga’s effect on
ego/mind than elaborating on iboga’s ways of use and consumption.
this leaves me the impression that those who worked on iboga remained
someway in the realm of experimentary ways, leaving out the scientific
approach.
only the Bwitis might be able to keep out of the scientific approach, as
they benefit of a long, old oral tradition.
sincerely,
P.R.
>From: Nowwarat@aol.com
>To: pascal-roland@hotmail.com
>Subject: questions
>Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 08:06:34 EST
>
>Add to those thoughtful questions another one. Has anyone actually taken
>over one gram of Ibo Hcl? People say to take one and a half grams if you
>weight
>around189. But people talk about taking one gram but not more. At least in
>my
>brief research.
>
>Bruce
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it’s FREE!
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: questions
Date: November 30, 2005 at 2:39:54 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In a message dated 11/30/05 1:03:30 AM, pascal-roland@hotmail.com writes:
no reply whatsoever, unless I do not know where to fish the answers….
http://www.ibogaine.org/science.html
Check out the papers in the clinical section.  You can also check out the patent section.
There is diversity of opinion and ibogaine is experimental.
Howard
From: “pascall roland” <pascal-roland@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] RE: questions
Date: November 30, 2005 at 1:03:17 AM EST
To: Nowwarat@aol.com
Cc: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
no reply whatsoever, unless I do not know where to fish the answers….
it seems to be more comfortable to comment endlessly about iboga’s effect on ego/mind than elaborating on iboga’s ways of use and consumption.
this leaves me the impression that those who worked on iboga remained someway in the realm of experimentary ways, leaving out the scientific approach.
only the Bwitis might be able to keep out of the scientific approach, as they benefit of a long, old oral tradition.
sincerely,
P.R.
From: Nowwarat@aol.com
To: pascal-roland@hotmail.com
Subject: questions
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 08:06:34 EST
Add to those thoughtful questions another one. Has anyone actually taken
over one gram of Ibo Hcl? People say to take one and a half grams if you weight
around189. But people talk about taking one gram but not more. At least in my
brief research.
Bruce
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it’s FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] x-ray visions
Date: November 30, 2005 at 12:09:53 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
I don’t believe it!! hahahahaha!! Now tell me how to sod off!
Ah there ya go! Hiding wayyy down here at the bottom of everyone elses message!!! Hehehe
Oh yehhh you dudez don’t use the word “sod” do ya?
Well it’s pretty much the same as piss off, fek off, bugger off, or whatever ya use in place of it! I’ll leave it to you to decide how ya wanna proceed!! \
Heheheheheh
Luff n lafta
Kirky!!!
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (OT) but very, very funny
Date: November 30, 2005 at 12:05:03 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I love animals! The penguin was so cute! What is the commercial for? I can’t read or speak Dutch or is it French? Whatever it is, I can’t speak it!!! Doesn’t matter it is funny!
Callie
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] x-ray visions
Date: November 29, 2005 at 11:59:05 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In a message dated 11/29/2005 9:43:48 PM Central Standard Time, captkirk@clear.net.nz writes:
Wow, I haven’t had that experience on drugs, but when semi asleep, eyes closed, could hear everything around me, breathing of partner, just the colour and contrast of the room was different.
Also have seen it when we got ghost busters in to get rid of some pesky spirits, and when the woman channelled she had her eyes closed but could see everything around her “as” the spirit she was channelling.  To prove to the spirit it wsan’t his house and it wasn’t the turn of the century of 1899, we fished up a newspaper and showed “him” the date on it . With her eyes fully closed, she frowned and read out the day, date month and year on the page.  Funniest thing I ever saw.
Believe it or sod off!!
Heheheheh
Kirk ;P
From: booker w [mailto:swbooker@hotmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, 30 November 2005 4:25 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] x-ray visions
Hi.  I had that experience too, standing in the shower and closing my eyes, and seeing my legs just as tho my eyes were open, altho everything was tinged in red.
It made me feel like I was being shown how much our mind can do, and that it truly isn’t all that dependent on what we think of as our physical senses.
Best, SAndy
From:  “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] urgent message from the bwiti gang
Date:  Tue, 29 Nov 2005 20:00:47 -0500
>Yes, I did, that’s for sure. I could see all sorts of things I was 
>doing, and others too (even if I couldn’t always recognize them) in 
>the room or in my bed with my eyes closed.
>Very weird but also very, very cool.
>
>
>Peace and love,
>Preston
>
>”Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is 
>often mistaken for madness”
>Richard Davenport-Hines
>
>ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
>Editor http://www.drugwar.com
>Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient 
>Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
>Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
>Cont. High Times mag/.com
>Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
>Columnist New York Waste
>Etc.
>
>—– Original Message —– From: “Luke Christoffersen” 
><luke.christoffersen@gmail.com>
>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 4:30 PM
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] urgent message from the bwiti gang
>
>
>I noticed that if I move my arm in front of my face while on 
>ibogaine
>I can see my arm even when my eyes are closed.  I wonder has anyone
>else seen this!
>
>Luke
>
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I don’t believe it!! hahahahaha!! Now tell me how to sod off!
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] x-ray visions
Date: November 29, 2005 at 10:43:05 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Wow, I haven’t had that experience on drugs, but when semi asleep, eyes closed, could hear everything around me, breathing of partner, just the colour and contrast of the room was different.
Also have seen it when we got ghost busters in to get rid of some pesky spirits, and when the woman channelled she had her eyes closed but could see everything around her “as” the spirit she was channelling.  To prove to the spirit it wsan’t his house and it wasn’t the turn of the century of 1899, we fished up a newspaper and showed “him” the date on it . With her eyes fully closed, she frowned and read out the day, date month and year on the page.  Funniest thing I ever saw.
Believe it or sod off!!
Heheheheh
Kirk ;P
From: booker w [mailto:swbooker@hotmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, 30 November 2005 4:25 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] x-ray visions
Hi.  I had that experience too, standing in the shower and closing my eyes, and seeing my legs just as tho my eyes were open, altho everything was tinged in red.
It made me feel like I was being shown how much our mind can do, and that it truly isn’t all that dependent on what we think of as our physical senses.
Best, SAndy
From:  “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] urgent message from the bwiti gang
Date:  Tue, 29 Nov 2005 20:00:47 -0500
>Yes, I did, that’s for sure. I could see all sorts of things I was 
>doing, and others too (even if I couldn’t always recognize them) in 
>the room or in my bed with my eyes closed.
>Very weird but also very, very cool.
>
>
>Peace and love,
>Preston
>
>”Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is 
>often mistaken for madness”
>Richard Davenport-Hines
>
>ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
>Editor http://www.drugwar.com
>Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient 
>Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
>Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
>Cont. High Times mag/.com
>Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
>Columnist New York Waste
>Etc.
>
>—– Original Message —– From: “Luke Christoffersen” 
><luke.christoffersen@gmail.com>
>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 4:30 PM
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] urgent message from the bwiti gang
>
>
>I noticed that if I move my arm in front of my face while on 
>ibogaine
>I can see my arm even when my eyes are closed.  I wonder has anyone
>else seen this!
>
>Luke
>
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: “booker w” <swbooker@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] x-ray visions
Date: November 29, 2005 at 10:24:35 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi.  I had that experience too, standing in the shower and closing my eyes, and seeing my legs just as tho my eyes were open, altho everything was tinged in red.
It made me feel like I was being shown how much our mind can do, and that it truly isn’t all that dependent on what we think of as our physical senses.
Best, SAndy
From:  “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] urgent message from the bwiti gang
Date:  Tue, 29 Nov 2005 20:00:47 -0500
>Yes, I did, that’s for sure. I could see all sorts of things I was
>doing, and others too (even if I couldn’t always recognize them) in
>the room or in my bed with my eyes closed.
>Very weird but also very, very cool.
>
>
>Peace and love,
>Preston
>
>”Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
>often mistaken for madness”
>Richard Davenport-Hines
>
>ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
>Editor http://www.drugwar.com
>Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
>Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
>Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
>Cont. High Times mag/.com
>Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
>Columnist New York Waste
>Etc.
>
>—– Original Message —– From: “Luke Christoffersen”
><luke.christoffersen@gmail.com>
>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 4:30 PM
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] urgent message from the bwiti gang
>
>
>I noticed that if I move my arm in front of my face while on
>ibogaine
>I can see my arm even when my eyes are closed.  I wonder has anyone
>else seen this!
>
>Luke
>
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Another Ibogaine article
Date: November 29, 2005 at 9:59:05 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
http://cannabisculture.com/articles/4584.html
It’s not really new, kind of the same article re written for the Nth
time yet again but it is yet another ibogaine article 😉
.:vector:.
__________________________________
Yahoo! Music Unlimited
Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/
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 \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] urgent message from the bwiti gang
Date: November 29, 2005 at 8:00:47 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Yes, I did, that’s for sure. I could see all sorts of things I was doing, and others too (even if I couldn’t always recognize them) in the room or in my bed with my eyes closed.
Very weird but also very, very cool.
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —– From: “Luke Christoffersen” <luke.christoffersen@gmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 4:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] urgent message from the bwiti gang
I noticed that if I move my arm in front of my face while on ibogaine
I can see my arm even when my eyes are closed.  I wonder has anyone
else seen this!
Luke
On 11/28/05, matthew zielinski <mattzielinski@hotmail.com> wrote:
brown paper box with handles made to hold it on both sides….two african
fellows staring intently into it, each holding one side and shaking
vigourously, puting it down sifting through it with both hands and repeating
the process
crazy bwiti :]
any other comments about the hcl?….i m really curious about this because
before i started vomiting i had this amazing ability to xray some parts of
my body and i saw my stomach lining filled with a greenish yeloowish
sesspool of god knows what and immieditly i thought oh fuk the hcl and thats
when i started vomiting—–fuken disgusting shit!!!!!
one love
matt
________________________________
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] urgent message from the bwiti gang
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 12:54:05 EST
In a message dated 11/28/05 12:27:45 PM, mattzielinski@hotmail.com writes:
No they didnt say where it was but they were sifting through a large box
that was briming with it……
Please elaborate on what you mean by this >>>>>>>They cannot see that the
division between what is man-made and what is nature-made is purely in the
mind
What did the box look like?
Howard
________________________________
Don’t just Search. Find! The new MSN Search: Fast. Clear. Easy.
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT) but very, very funny
Date: November 29, 2005 at 7:54:58 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
This was sent by a friend of our in Switzerland, and to those whose computers can’t handle muchbandwidth in their box, I apologize- this is for those who can handle it, and it’s very funny.
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —–
From: Vanessa Cleary
To: Eleanora
Cc: Mika Frazi ; erica ; ANNA CURTIS ; Maral Sari ; Preston Peet ; Ninjastarrecords@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 5:28 PM
Subject: Fw: vive le week-end
Hey all,my friend gabi sent me this video attachmet-pretty cute- LUv nesss
—– Original Message —–
From: Gabriela Vuichoud
Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 4:05 AM
Subject: vive le week-end
I know…it’s only Tuesday…but…I’m already looking forward to the weekend…Enjoy! G
 /]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
 \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] urgent message from the bwiti gang
Date: November 29, 2005 at 6:19:16 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Yah that is a cool feeling
i also try to squint when im blinded by all the lights and when i relize that my eyes are closed and that squinting wont do shit i always burst into an uncotroloble laugh
But i noticed that if you position your head on a slight angle and move your eyes to different sides the color is not as blinding.
mucho love
m
From: Luke Christoffersen <luke.christoffersen@gmail.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] urgent message from the bwiti gang
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 21:30:25 +0000
I noticed that if I move my arm in front of my face while on ibogaine
I can see my arm even when my eyes are closed. I wonder has anyone
else seen this!
Luke
On 11/28/05, matthew zielinski <mattzielinski@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> brown paper box with handles made to hold it on both sides….two african
> fellows staring intently into it, each holding one side and shaking
> vigourously, puting it down sifting through it with both hands and repeating
> the process
>
> crazy bwiti :]
>
> any other comments about the hcl?….i m really curious about this because
> before i started vomiting i had this amazing ability to xray some parts of
> my body and i saw my stomach lining filled with a greenish yeloowish
> sesspool of god knows what and immieditly i thought oh fuk the hcl and thats
> when i started vomiting—–fuken disgusting shit!!!!!
>
> one love
>
> matt
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: HSLotsof@aol.com
> Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] urgent message from the bwiti gang
> Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 12:54:05 EST
>
>
> In a message dated 11/28/05 12:27:45 PM, mattzielinski@hotmail.com writes:
>
> No they didnt say where it was but they were sifting through a large box
> that was briming with it……
> Please elaborate on what you mean by this >>>>>>>They cannot see that the
> division between what is man-made and what is nature-made is purely in the
> mind
>
>
> What did the box look like?
>
> Howard
>
>
> ________________________________
> Don’t just Search. Find! The new MSN Search: Fast. Clear. Easy.
> /]=———————————————————————=[\
> [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> \]=———————————————————————=[/
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From: Luke Christoffersen <luke.christoffersen@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] urgent message from the bwiti gang
Date: November 29, 2005 at 4:30:25 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I noticed that if I move my arm in front of my face while on ibogaine
I can see my arm even when my eyes are closed.  I wonder has anyone
else seen this!
Luke
On 11/28/05, matthew zielinski <mattzielinski@hotmail.com> wrote:
brown paper box with handles made to hold it on both sides….two african
fellows staring intently into it, each holding one side and shaking
vigourously, puting it down sifting through it with both hands and repeating
the process
crazy bwiti :]
any other comments about the hcl?….i m really curious about this because
before i started vomiting i had this amazing ability to xray some parts of
my body and i saw my stomach lining filled with a greenish yeloowish
sesspool of god knows what and immieditly i thought oh fuk the hcl and thats
when i started vomiting—–fuken disgusting shit!!!!!
one love
matt
________________________________
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] urgent message from the bwiti gang
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 12:54:05 EST
In a message dated 11/28/05 12:27:45 PM, mattzielinski@hotmail.com writes:
No they didnt say where it was but they were sifting through a large box
that was briming with it……
Please elaborate on what you mean by this >>>>>>>They cannot see that the
division between what is man-made and what is nature-made is purely in the
mind
What did the box look like?
Howard
________________________________
Don’t just Search. Find! The new MSN Search: Fast. Clear. Easy.
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
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 \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] urgent message from the bwiti gang
Date: November 29, 2005 at 7:20:39 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Matt,
I’ll make on observation if that ok.
What this tells me is that yes ibogaine is very powerful but taking large doses does not mean it will land all its power on you.
What I read here is you were shown its power and it used its power to sabotage your trip a little bit by revealing the contents of your stomach and making you throw up, i.e., high doses are not always the answer. There is an appropriate dose for the stage of healing you are at and you need to be connected to your issues to determine that.
You may have taken too much ibogaine? Its good imo to try and exercise a little restraint using ibogaine (says he who has on occasion not) and to realise that you have to do the underlying work by focusing in on the issues and using your 6th sense to determine appropriate use.
You may have reached a stage where low doses (or no doses) are the way to go?
Just an observation and of course its just a theory.
🙂
Lee
matthew zielinski <mattzielinski@hotmail.com> wrote:
brown paper box with handles made to hold it on both sides….two african fellows staring intently into it, each holding one side and shaking vigourously, puting it down sifting through it with both hands and repeating the process
crazy bwiti :]
any other comments about the hcl?….i m really curious about this because before i started vomiting i had this amazing ability to xray some parts of my body and i saw my stomach lining filled with a greenish yeloowish sesspool of god knows what and immieditly i thought oh fuk the hcl and thats when i started vomiting—–fuken disgusting shit!!!!!
one love
matt
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] urgent message from the bwiti gang
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 12:54:05 EST
In a message dated 11/28/05 12:27:45 PM, mattzielinski@hotmail.com writes:
No they didnt say where it was but they were sifting through a large box that was briming with it……
Please elaborate on what you mean by this >>>>>>>They cannot see that the division between what is man-made and what is nature-made is purely in the mind
What did the box look like?
Howard
Don’t just Search. Find! The new MSN Search: Fast. Clear. Easy. /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Dream Lines ( off topic but cool!)
Date: November 29, 2005 at 6:44:45 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hmm.. What were you thinking of? 🙂
HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:
Fantastic!
I tried ibogaine, howard lotsof and deborah mash.  I wish it worked faster ala ibogaine but slow is better than nothing.
Howard
In a message dated 11/29/05 12:10:30 AM, CallieMimosa@aol.com writes:
DREAM A LITTLE DREAM – ONLINE!
You enter KEYWORDS of what you’d like to dream
about, then the thingy grabs relevant images from
the web and mishmashes them into a dreamy
ever-changing tapestry.
http://www.solaas.com.ar/dreamlines/
This is cool as shit!! I tried several things, Ibogaine, evil (get this, ticketmaster was one of the images from evil!!!), mindvox, Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers, tie dye…..use your imagination! It is fun to watch and relaxing!
Peace, Callie
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
From: “pascall roland” <pascal-roland@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re:Ibogaine
Date: November 29, 2005 at 5:23:35 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Good afternoon,
being still a novice to Ibogaine, and whatever I learned abt it is based upon available literature on the net.
The more I read, the more I get confused because against 2-3 positive experiences, there is at least one negative or semi negative experience.
For pure opium addiction, I find several ibogaine dosis, and those to be taken acc. over several days, with sometimes several dosis daily. Now it may be impossible to establish an equation between the weight of the addicted, the daily opiate qty consumption over a period of x years, and the qty of iboga to be taken for how many times per day over a specific period.
In case such an equation exists, what would be the formula? Besides, wonder how iboga acts on the brain. Opiate-morphine molecules lock onto the brains’ receptors, making the naturally body produced endorphine uneffective.
The main reason why I did not decide as yet to go for iboga teatment, is that an unaccurate dosis can make the patient feeling the ususal withdrawal pain symptoms coming up.Sometimes with delay.
On the top, it is recommended not to use opiate drug during iboga treatment, the effect could be fatal to the patient. Except durg intake, what can eliminate the eventual withdrawal pains?
All that turns in my mind, without acceptable answer to it. So I still hesitate to do that iboga journey.
Whoever can comment, thanks.
b.r.
p.r.
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it’s FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
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\]=———————————————————————=[/
From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] urgent message from the bwiti gang
Date: November 29, 2005 at 2:30:56 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
i know exaxtly what it did to my head so what u tripin about?
i  dont have any knowledge about hcl etc therefore asking a question about something i m not certain about seemed likea  logical thing to do
From: Crooked Eye <iboganaut420@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] urgent message from the bwiti gang
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 19:17:12 -0800 (PST)
you people are nuts….  HCl of any drug is water soluble and easily dissolves…  Your stomach has HCl, lower than any drug would have, so quit worry about what it is doin to your stomach and start thinkin about what it is doin to your head…  I mean geez, quit wiggin out over the pure alkaloid…  I took 5 grams of whole plant extract after tapering down to about 12mgs of methadone from 100mgs a day and it was FUN!!!  Yes FUN!!!  Yeah so I puked on and off for 18 hours…  SO WHAT!?!?!  It fuckin rocked, was very spiritual!!  It should be experienced by everyone at least once and, to top it all off, I have been opiate free for over a year without a single complication…  You guys all worry too much…  I can understand if you have health problems, but it does what it’s supposed to, if you let it, and as long as you aren’t a psychological wreck, from severe mental problems…  Just eat the Iboga and stop worrying, it is good for ya!!!!
matthew zielinski <mattzielinski@hotmail.com> wrote:
brown paper box with handles made to hold it on both sides….two african fellows staring intently into it, each holding one side and shaking vigourously, puting it down sifting through it with both hands and repeating the process
crazy bwiti :]
any other comments about the hcl?….i m really curious about this because before i started vomiting i had this amazing ability to xray some parts of my body and i saw my stomach lining filled with a greenish yeloowish sesspool of god knows what and immieditly i thought oh fuk the hcl and thats when i started vomiting—–fuken disgusting shit!!!!!
one love
matt
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] urgent message from the bwiti gang
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 12:54:05 EST
In a message dated 11/28/05 12:27:45 PM, mattzielinski@hotmail.com writes:
No they didnt say where it was but they were sifting through a large box that was briming with it……
Please elaborate on what you mean by this >>>>>>>They cannot see that the division between what is man-made and what is nature-made is purely in the mind
What did the box look like?
Howard
Don’t just Search. Find! The new MSN Search: Fast. Clear. Easy./]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
Yahoo! Music Unlimited – Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
Powerful parental controls improve your peace of mind with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Dream Lines ( off topic but cool!)
Date: November 29, 2005 at 1:42:17 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Fantastic!
I tried ibogaine, howard lotsof and deborah mash.  I wish it worked faster ala ibogaine but slow is better than nothing.
Howard
In a message dated 11/29/05 12:10:30 AM, CallieMimosa@aol.com writes:
DREAM A LITTLE DREAM – ONLINE!
You enter KEYWORDS of what you’d like to dream
about, then the thingy grabs relevant images from
the web and mishmashes them into a dreamy
ever-changing tapestry.
http://www.solaas.com.ar/dreamlines/
This is cool as shit!! I tried several things, Ibogaine, evil (get this, ticketmaster was one of the images from evil!!!), mindvox, Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers, tie dye…..use your imagination! It is fun to watch and relaxing!
Peace, Callie
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Dream Lines ( off topic but cool!)
Date: November 29, 2005 at 12:10:22 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
DREAM A LITTLE DREAM – ONLINE!
You enter KEYWORDS of what you’d like to dream
about, then the thingy grabs relevant images from
the web and mishmashes them into a dreamy
ever-changing tapestry.
http://www.solaas.com.ar/dreamlines/
This is cool as shit!! I tried several things, Ibogaine, evil (get this, ticketmaster was one of the images from evil!!!), mindvox, Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers, tie dye…..use your imagination! It is fun to watch and relaxing!
Peace, Callie
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] urgent message from the bwiti gang
Date: November 28, 2005 at 11:59:45 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
J  heheheh I llike you
From: Crooked Eye [mailto:iboganaut420@yahoo.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, 29 November 2005 4:17 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] urgent message from the bwiti gang
you people are nuts….  HCl of any drug is water soluble and easily dissolves…  Your stomach has HCl, lower than any drug would have, so quit worry about what it is doin to your stomach and start thinkin about what it is doin to your head…  I mean geez, quit wiggin out over the pure alkaloid…  I took 5 grams of whole plant extract after tapering down to about 12mgs of methadone from 100mgs a day and it was FUN!!!  Yes FUN!!!  Yeah so I puked on and off for 18 hours…  SO WHAT!?!?!  It fuckin rocked, was very spiritual!!  It should be experienced by everyone at least once and, to top it all off, I have been opiate free for over a year without a single complication…  You guys all worry too much…  I can understand if you have health problems, but it does what it’s supposed to, if you let it, and as long as you aren’t a psychological wreck, from severe mental problems…  Just eat the Iboga and stop worrying, it is good for ya!!!!

matthew zielinski <mattzielinski@hotmail.com> wrote:
brown paper box with handles made to hold it on both sides….two african fellows staring intently into it, each holding one side and shaking vigourously, puting it down sifting through it with both hands and repeating the process
crazy bwiti :]
any other comments about the hcl?….i m really curious about this because before i started vomiting i had this amazing ability to xray some parts of my body and i saw my stomach lining filled with a greenish yeloowish sesspool of god knows what and immieditly i thought oh fuk the hcl and thats when i started vomiting—–fuken disgusting shit!!!!!
one love
matt
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] urgent message from the bwiti gang
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 12:54:05 EST


In a message dated 11/28/05 12:27:45 PM, mattzielinski@hotmail.com writes:

No they didnt say where it was but they were sifting through a large box that was briming with it……
Please elaborate on what you mean by this >>>>>>>They cannot see that the division between what is man-made and what is nature-made is purely in the mind

What did the box look like?

Howard
Don’t just Search. Find! The new MSN Search: Fast. Clear. Easy./]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
Yahoo! Music Unlimited – Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
From: Crooked Eye <iboganaut420@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] urgent message from the bwiti gang
Date: November 28, 2005 at 10:17:12 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
you people are nuts….  HCl of any drug is water soluble and easily dissolves…  Your stomach has HCl, lower than any drug would have, so quit worry about what it is doin to your stomach and start thinkin about what it is doin to your head…  I mean geez, quit wiggin out over the pure alkaloid…  I took 5 grams of whole plant extract after tapering down to about 12mgs of methadone from 100mgs a day and it was FUN!!!  Yes FUN!!!  Yeah so I puked on and off for 18 hours…  SO WHAT!?!?!  It fuckin rocked, was very spiritual!!  It should be experienced by everyone at least once and, to top it all off, I have been opiate free for over a year without a single complication…  You guys all worry too much…  I can understand if you have health problems, but it does what it’s supposed to, if you let it, and as long as you aren’t a psychological wreck, from severe mental problems…  Just eat the Iboga and stop worrying, it is good for ya!!!!
matthew zielinski <mattzielinski@hotmail.com> wrote:
brown paper box with handles made to hold it on both sides….two african fellows staring intently into it, each holding one side and shaking vigourously, puting it down sifting through it with both hands and repeating the process
crazy bwiti :]
any other comments about the hcl?….i m really curious about this because before i started vomiting i had this amazing ability to xray some parts of my body and i saw my stomach lining filled with a greenish yeloowish sesspool of god knows what and immieditly i thought oh fuk the hcl and thats when i started vomiting—–fuken disgusting shit!!!!!
one love
matt
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] urgent message from the bwiti gang
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 12:54:05 EST
In a message dated 11/28/05 12:27:45 PM, mattzielinski@hotmail.com writes:
No they didnt say where it was but they were sifting through a large box that was briming with it……
Please elaborate on what you mean by this >>>>>>>They cannot see that the division between what is man-made and what is nature-made is purely in the mind
What did the box look like?
Howard
Don’t just Search. Find! The new MSN Search: Fast. Clear. Easy./]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
Yahoo! Music Unlimited – Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Secret Service, U.S. intel say Bush uses cocaine, prozac, alcohol
Date: November 28, 2005 at 4:16:16 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hey,
  Someone’s seriously stoned, ’cause I’m holding the deed to Frenando Poo right here, so someone has to start getting out, now!
;-))
  And thanks Jon.
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —– From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 1:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Secret Service, U.S. intel say Bush uses cocaine, prozac, alcohol
Hi Preston,
Glad to hear you’re doing well =) I wouldn’t beat yourself up about the dilaudid… i mean you obviously have a legitimate medical reason for using it from time to time. I’d only start to worry if you find yourself using it for reasons other than that legitimate medical reason…
Anyhow, this article you posted reminded me a lot of some passages from the Illuminatus! trilogy…
“Don’t say wop,” the President shouted back. “How many times do I have to tell you? Don’t say wop or kike or any of those words anymore.” He spoke with some asperity, since he lived daily with the dread that someday the secret tapes he kept of all Oval Room transactions would be released to the public. He had long ago vowed that if that day ever came, the tapes would not be full of “(expletive deleted)” or “(characterization deleted).” He was harassed, but still he spoke with authority. He was, in fact, characteristic of the best type of dominant male in the world at this time. He was fifty-five years old, tough, shrewd, unburdened by the complicated ethical ambiguities which puzzle intellectuals, and had long ago decided that the world was a mean son-of-a-bitch in which only the most cunning and ruthless can survive. He was also as kind as was possible for one holding that ultra-Darwinian philosophy; and he genuinely loved children and dogs, unless they were on the site of something that had to be bombed in the National Interest. He still retained some sense of humor, despite the burdens of his almost godly office, and, although he had been impotent with his wife for nearly ten years now, he generally achieved orgasm in the mouth of a skilled prostitute within 1.5 minutes. He took amphetamine pep pills to keep going on his grueling twenty-hour day, with the result that his vision of the world was somewhat skewed in a paranoid direction, and he took tranquilizers to keep from worrying too much, with the result that his detachment sometimes bordered on the schizophrenic; but most of the time his innate shrewdness gave him a fingernail grip on reality. In short, he was much like the rulers of Russia and China.
……
In Moscow, where it was ten the next morning, the Premier called a conference and said crisply, “That character in Washington is a mental lunatic, and he means it. Get our men out of Fernando Poo right away, then find out who authorized sending them in there in the first place and transfer him to be supervisor of a hydroelectric works in Outer Mongolia.”
“We don’t have any men in Fernando Poo,” a commissar said mournfully. ‘The Americans are imagining things again.”
“Well, how the hell can we withdraw men if we don’t have them there in the first place?” the Premier demanded.
“I don’t know. We’ve got twenty-four hours to figure that out, or-” the commissar quoted an old Russian proverb which means, roughly, that when the polar bear excrement interferes with the fan belts, the machinery overheats.
“Suppose we just announce that our troops are coming out?” another commissar suggested. “They can’t say we’re lying if they don’t find any of our troops there afterward.”
“No, they never believe anything we say. They want to be shown,” the premier said thoughtfully. “We’ll have to infiltrate some troops surreptitiously and then withdraw them with a lot of fanfare and publicity. That should do it.”
“I’m afraid it won’t end the problem,” another pommissar said funereally. “Our intelligence indicates that there are Chinese troops there. Unless Peking backs down, we’re going to be caught in the middle when the bombs start flying and-” he quoted a proverb about the man in the intersection when two manure trucks collide.
“Damn,” the Premier said. “What the blue blazes do the Chinese want with Fernando Poo?”
He was harassed, but still he spoke with authority. He was, in fact, characteristic of the best type of dominant male in the world at this time. He was fifty-five years old, tough, shrewd, unburdened by the complicated ethical ambiguities which puzzle intellectuals, and had long ago decided that the world was a mean son-of-a-bitch in which only the most cunning and ruthless can survive. He was also as kind as was possible for one holding that ultra-Darwinian philosophy; and he genuinely loved children and dogs, unless they were on the site of something that had to be bombed in the National Interest. He still retained some sense of humor, despite the burdens of his almost godly office, and although he had been impotent with his wife for nearly ten years now, he generally achieved orgasm in the mouth of a skilled prostitute within 1.5 minutes. He took amphetamine pep pills to keep going on his grueling twenty-hour day, with the result that his vision of the world was somewhat skewed in a paranoid direction, and he took tranquilizers to keep from worrying too much, with the result that his detachment sometimes bordered on schizophrenia; but most of the time his innate shrewdness gave him a fingernail grip on reality. In short, he was much like the rulers of America and China.
…..
“We’ll just get our troops out of Fernando Poo,” the Chairman of the Chinese Communist party said on April 1. “A place that size isn’t worth world war.”
“But we don’t have any troops there,” an aide told him, “it’s the Russians who do.”
“Oh?” the Chairman quoted a proverb to the effect that there was urine in the rosewater. “I wonder what the hell the Russians want with Fernando Poo?” he added thoughtfully.
He was harassed, but still he spoke with authority. He was, in fact, characteristic of the best type of dominant male in the world at this time. He was fifty-five years old, tough, shrewd, unburdened by the complicated ethical ambiguities which puzzle intellectuals, and had long ago decided that the world was a mean son-of-a-bitch in which only the most cunning and ruthless can survive. He was also as kind as was possible for one holding that ultra-Darwinian philosophy; and he genuinely loved children and dogs, unless they were on the site of something that had to be bombed in the National Interest. He still retained some sense of humor, despite the burdens of his almost godly office, and, although he had been impotent with his wife for nearly ten years now, he generally achieved orgasm in the mouth of a skilled prostitute within 1.5 minutes. He took amphetamine pep pills to keep going on his grueling twenty-hour day, with the result that his vision of the world was somewhat skewed in a paranoid direction, and he took tranquilizers to keep from worrying too much, with the result that his detachment sometimes bordered on the schizophrenic; but most of the time his innate shrewdness gave him a fingernail grip on reality. In short, he was much like the rulers of America and Russia.
HI all and happy Sunday morning.
I ran into a very old friend and fellow ibogaine list member, who noted more than once how happy he was to see me doing (or looking, I wasn’t always sure) so well compared to how I have at time been doing, which was a nice thing to hear (more than once, so it coulda also been the alcohol he was drinking- still, I prefer to put it down to his honest observations), as it only validate my decision and the carrying out of said decision.
Which btw, I have to say I’m doing remarkably well with (KNOCK LOUDLY UPON WOOD, THREE TIMES- personal twist on superstious bologna, so please humor me) my severe, strict adherance to my own personal teeny level of medical pain relief, trying to see if I can manage to do it on my own, but I have found there have been more than once when I simply had to take a couple dilaudid (orally) to help nail the swelling, heaving, growing pain. Otherwise, I’m for the moment doing well and am trying to give myself credit for doing so. I think it’s going to take a little while for it to become obvious to certain other sthat I mean what I’ve said and really am doing this, among other behavioral and habit changes that have nothing to do with drugs. If I get the time to show it instead of saying it (which I’m not doing except here in print, which is why I noted I’m trying to give myself credit because I can’t do it anywhere else- these are what I use as my groups instead of classic -A type grounps, as I told my friend last night) no problem I believe.
Anyway, on with the article about the President using hard drugs both legal and non.
Ohhhhh, if only this story is true, it’s a beaut. But….
Personally I’m never sure just how to take Tom Flocco’s information and reporting,
as he seems to pretty far in accusatory language but doesn’t seem to always
source his info, often who are “un-named,” or “anonymous,”  which makes it difficult to follow up on the story, (although out of the rest of the articles total reliance on unnamed sources all over the place, the name of the doctor supposedly writing the prescriptions for Ritilan and Prozac for Bush is named, a Col. Richard J. Tubb, the White House physician, so feel free to follow this up if you have the time) such as this juicy but gossipy
piece on George W. Bush not only still drinking, but taking Prozac as well as
doing cocaine, these days as President of the United States, not years ago as
a frat boy or US Navy pilot. If this story is true that is.
http://www.tomflocco.com/fs/SecretServIntelSay.htm
Tom Flocco.com
http://tomflocco.com/
Secret Service, U.S. intel say Bush uses cocaine, prozac, alcohol
Date: Thursday, November 17
Topic: —
“It is not for kings, O Lemuel-not for kings to drink wine, not for rulers to crave beer, lest they drink and forget what the law decrees, and deprive all the oppressed of their rights.” Proverbs 31: 4-5
Secret Service, U.S. intel say Bush uses cocaine, Prozac, alcohol
Federal agents question out-of-control White House operating “under the influence” while continuing historical pattern of untested drug usage at highest levels places presidents above the law, jeopardizing the safety of all Americans
by Tom Flocco
Washington-November 17, 2005-TomFlocco.com-Secret Service members attached to White House domestic security, FBI and CIA agents, and written national security field reports all confirm that President Bush has been using drugs which could be affecting his performance as the nation’s war-time commander-in-chief.
Multiple federal agents having direct knowledge and access to Bush’s medical records say the President has switched from using Ritalin to taking Prozac while also succumbing to periodic alcoholic binges which have led to tirades and explosive personal conduct among White House aides, absent required random drug testing of all public employees and elected officials.
Federal law enforcement agents have at different times witnessed President Bush doing lines of cocaine in the early morning hours at the White House and drinking straight shots of whiskey in the evening hours on other occasions, according to U.S. intelligence sources who confirm multiple stories appearing in the tabloid press which say the First Lady is assigned to “keep an eye on him.”
Bush’s alleged conduct raises serious questions as to what effect the chemicals are having on his oval office decision-making, and why Democrats and Republicans facing coming voter backlash-while undoubtedly having heard the whispers-are failing to call for the release of Bush’s medical records for bipartisan congressional scrutiny.
Legislators have also failed to ask Bush to submit to drug-testing when they required President Clinton to submit to similar tests to confirm a match of his DNA with spots found on Monica Lewinsky’s blue dress-a matter of far less consequence to U.S. national security than the effects of Mr. Bush’s alleged ongoing chemical dependency.
Having observed the President smirk and laugh when discussing the war or other serious matters of state at press conferences, the White House press corps has thus far refused to muster the courage to ask whether Bush will have himself tested for drugs or whether he considers himself above the law compared to all other federal employees.
U.S. intelligence sources having direct contact with White House domestic security told TomFlocco.com that multiple federal agents would be willing to testify before a grand jury if subpoenaed regarding what they have seen and heard pertaining to Mr. Bush’s drug and alcohol usage.
Secret Service and intelligence officials are reportedly concerned about public safety while Mr. Bush has access to nuclear weapons without being subject to random drug testing to determine how the addictions are affecting his ability to govern.
Bush’s doses of Ritalin and Prozac are reportedly administered by Col. Richard J. Tubb, the White House physician; and medical journals say they can impair the President’s mental faculties and decrease both his physical capabilities and his ability to respond to a crisis.
Medical reports also say that mixing cocaine with alcohol produces a substance in the blood called “cocaethylene” which can be more toxic to the body than the cocaine itself.
Dr. Justin Frank, a Washington D.C. psychiatrist and author of Bush On The Couch-Inside The Mind Of The President, told The National Enquirer: “I do think that Bush is drinking again. Alcoholics who are not in any program, like the President, have a hard time when stress gets to be great.”
snip-
Peace and love,
Preston Peet
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
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From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] urgent message from the bwiti gang
Date: November 28, 2005 at 2:59:02 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
brown paper box with handles made to hold it on both sides….two african fellows staring intently into it, each holding one side and shaking vigourously, puting it down sifting through it with both hands and repeating the process
crazy bwiti :]
any other comments about the hcl?….i m really curious about this because before i started vomiting i had this amazing ability to xray some parts of my body and i saw my stomach lining filled with a greenish yeloowish sesspool of god knows what and immieditly i thought oh fuk the hcl and thats when i started vomiting—–fuken disgusting shit!!!!!
one love
matt
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] urgent message from the bwiti gang
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 12:54:05 EST
In a message dated 11/28/05 12:27:45 PM, mattzielinski@hotmail.com writes:
No they didnt say where it was but they were sifting through a large box that was briming with it……
Please elaborate on what you mean by this >>>>>>>They cannot see that the division between what is man-made and what is nature-made is purely in the mind
What did the box look like?
Howard
Don’t just Search. Find! The new MSN Search: Fast. Clear. Easy. /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] urgent message from the bwiti gang
Date: November 28, 2005 at 1:30:39 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
—–Original Message—–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com [mailto:HSLotsof@aol.com]
Sent: 28 November 2005 17:54
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] urgent message from the bwiti gang
In a message dated 11/28/05 12:27:45 PM, mattzielinski@hotmail.com writes:
No they didnt say where it was but they were sifting through a large box that was briming with it……
Please elaborate on what you mean by this >>>>>>>They cannot see that the division between what is man-made and what is nature-made is purely in the mind
It’s just that some people figure that if something’s made by mankind, or modified by it, then it’s not as good as the natural version. I think it’s nice to celebrate that everything is made by god (or whoever) whether it’s been fiddled with a bit by human consciousness or not.
Nick
What did the box look like?
Howard
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] urgent message from the bwiti gang
Date: November 28, 2005 at 12:54:05 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In a message dated 11/28/05 12:27:45 PM, mattzielinski@hotmail.com writes:
No they didnt say where it was but they were sifting through a large box that was briming with it……
Please elaborate on what you mean by this >>>>>>>They cannot see that the division between what is man-made and what is nature-made is purely in the mind
What did the box look like?
Howard
From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] urgent message from the bwiti gang
Date: November 28, 2005 at 12:17:47 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Nick
No they didnt say where it was but they were sifting through a large box that was briming with it……
Please elaborate on what you mean by this >>>>>>>They cannot see that the division between what is man-made and what is nature-made is purely in the mind
One love
a -matt
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] urgent message from the bwiti gang
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 11:17:12 -0000
and the bwitit did give me this message to pass along so feel free to hand it out to anyone u wish
UNITY
and they also said that they have over 1kg of iboga hcl….all i could say is why… hcl?
crazy bwitist
Because HCl is also great! Don’t believe the ideas put out by the holistics who say you have to take whole root for they are operating from a position of low awareness. They cannot see that the division between what is man-made and what is nature-made is purely in the mind. Yes, this is the message! Did they say where it was?
Nick
with love
matt
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From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Re: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death – Death in 2000 JW – Alternative Theory
Date: November 28, 2005 at 10:07:28 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Krista,
Just to let you know I am going to thoroughly review and check the two pages I have listed as giving safety info. I also intend to pass them by people in the know for further inspection and opinion.
I do recognise your concern and it is a valid one.
Lee
Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi Krista,
My site is principally aimed towards low dose usage for personal healing. However high doses are also part of the healing that I am daily seeking to comprehend and catalog. So the safety info I provide is aimed at the worse case sceanario.
I attempt to provide as much practical info on safety as possible as I know people will self treat (with or without that info) and i also list important links re: treatment etc. See this page for instance:
www.my-eboga.com/providers.html
As you point out your beef is not with the material I write on dealing with trauma. Your concern is with safety and you are absolutely right. Regarding the current debate I put out the alternate theory to elicit a response to widen the knowledge on this death. And the knowledge we now have is much more than we had. That does not mean I believe my own theory in this instance or that I am arrogant enough to think I can make a fully informed judgement – I have already consulted privately others who might know something on this for their opinion – but I can raise doubts. At present I am constructing a table of fatalities to be armed in public debate & also to help others, and I want to generate as much debate/off-list communication as possible to complete it:
www.my-eboga.com/risks.html
Looking through my own site there are 2 pages which border on technical advice. The rest is safe ground imo. They are:
www.my-eboga.com/administration.html
www.my-eboga.com/safety.html
On the top of the page on administration is this:
“I would like to share some personal observations on the taking of eboga (ibogaine) based on my own use over a 6 year period.”
Not to be boring but briefly my background is: 7 years of varied personal experience, an MSc in Chemistry, assisting and observation with 3 other providers and ongoing communication with 2 reputable providers, one of whom is a close friend. Any information that goes onto these pages is considered to be safe information in my judgement or alternative views that are worth pondering.
All that said, I would be grateful if you could point to any items of technical information I have listed on these 2 pages that are not generally accepted as good practise. The first item on the safety page is: Beginners Begin Low. I am happy to debate them and change them if the debate should indicate so.
I generally reread and amend these pages from time to time to try and be as spot on as I can be. I would not post these pages if I did not believe that on balance they are for the good. If there is something there you consider eroneous can you please point it out?
Thank you for making your concerns know. I am delighted that you have taken the time to question what I have posted on my site. It all helps to get things right in the end and any particular critical observation on what I have placed there is more than welcome.
In future I may set up a vetting procedure with this information and have it agreed upon by the providers with whom I am in contact. Thanks once again for your inadvertent guidance.
🙂
Lee
Krista Vaughan <krista.vaughan@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks for taking the time to write that Howard 🙂
I haven’t been here that long and I know you get knocked for some of
your views Lee and I think anyone who promotes knowledge of ibogaine
is doing a good thing, but some of the time when I read your site I
get a little weirded out. Not by the religion or pain stuff, to each
their own but you’re writing a lot of text about something you don’t
seem to understand that well. Information is incredibly useful, but
when it’s wrong or something that someone wrote in some file online or
conversation, is being used as a fact then it doesn’t seem like any of
it is that useful because the real information is often missing or
you’re going so fast and trying to fill up so many pages of text that
you don’t read what you’re quoting.
Not knowing anything and not caring is one thing, but what about
people who read something you write that is way way off, take it as
fact, then think they know what they’re doing when really most of what
they know is wrong it seems like they’d be better off with ignorance
then the wrong information.
How will you feel if someone follows your instructions or reads
something you wrote, takes it seriously and then dies following your
advice? I know that some on this list are incredibly smart and write
very detailed technical and medical articles even if they are not a
PHD like Howard, Patrick, Jon Freedlander some others, but reading
their texts I have this feeling that maybe I don’t understand all of
it, but it sounds like it makes sense. With a lot of what you write,
it looks like you’re taking a lot of things other people wrote, mixing
them all together with your opinions and then ending up with?
KV
On 11/27/05, HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 11/26/05 6:50:40 AM, myeboga@yahoo.co.uk writes:
>
>
>
> Last night thinking on this:
>
> The amount of extract for methadone withdrawal is 11 grams with Sara and 9
> grams with Marc Emery (who is very conservative in his approach but for good
> reason) per Howards:
>
> Forms & Dose Regimens
> www.ibogaine.desk.nl/ibogaine_forms_dose_regimen.ppt
> For Heroin withdrawal the amount Sara states is 7grams of extract.
>
>
>
> Dear Lee,
>
> I just wanted to provide some clarity as to the wording of your text
> above. First, thank you for providing the link to my powerpoint
> presentation on form, dose and regimen. What I want to be clear on is it is
> you and not I, who is stating that Marc Emery’s approach is conservative.
>
> You might take a look at the section of the Manual for Ibogaine Therapy
> that describes a dose regimen provided by Marc. Personally, it scared the
> hell out of me.
>
> http://ibogaine.org/manual.html#distreat
>
> “We have recently used the following regimen to clear a methadone dependent
> person who was taking 300 mg of methadone per day.
> At 52 hours after the patient’s last 300 mg. methadone dose, we gave him
> 5,200 mg Indra extract.
> Over the next 72 hours, the patient has no physical withdrawal as per usual
> (in other words, no diarrhea, vomiting, sweating, running nose, pounding
> headache) but felt miserable.
> 72 hours after the first dose of Indra extract, we gave him 100 mg Ibogaine
> Hydrochloride.
> 96 hours after the first dose of Indra extract, we gave him 100 mg.
> Ibogaine hydrochloride.
> 120 hours after the first dose of Indra extract, we gave him 3,800 mg.
> Indra extract.
> 168 hours after the first dose of Indra extract, we gave him 100 mg. Ibo
> HCI.
> 192 hours after the first dose of Indra extract, we gave him 100 mg. Ibo
> HCI.
> By his 11th day here (12 days from his last 300 mg. methadone dose), he was
> bright, sharp, lucid, no slurring, no signs of any methadone, no withdrawal
> or craving or discomfort of any kind. Patient said “I like the way I’m
> thinking now.”
> Patient ate little in the 12 days. Lost 25 pounds. Looks robust, healthy
> skin. “On methadone, I gained 110 pounds” he commented”. The ibogaine is
> returning him to his regular body weight I feel.”
>
> I would also like to bring to your attention two of the slides in my
> presentation that provide notices (caveats) relating to the dose information
> given.
>
> (slide)
> “All doses are representative. Doses, including single administration doses
> are determined on a patient by patient basis. The graphs of dose regimens
> and information that follow should not be used by persons without experience
> to self-administer or administer to others any dose of ibogaine or total
> alkaloid extract of Tabernanthe iboga.”
>
> (slide)
> “All doses and dose regimens shown or discussed are representative and are
> not indicated to be provided to any other patient or subject. All doses and
> dose regimens are made on a patient by patient basis upon knowledge and
> prior art.”
>
> The purpose of the slide presentation was to demonstrate the diversity of
> doses only and not to indicate doses that should be used nor to comment on
> whether the doses were conservative or aggressive, only that doses may be
> diverse and that patient responses may be equally diverse. The slides
> representing activity demonstrate how varied the effects can be.
>
> Thanks for your understanding.
>
> Howard
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Re: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death – Death in 2000 JW – Alternative Theory
Date: November 28, 2005 at 9:23:12 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Krista,
My site is principally aimed towards low dose usage for personal healing. However high doses are also part of the healing that I am daily seeking to comprehend and catalog. So the safety info I provide is aimed at the worse case sceanario.
I attempt to provide as much practical info on safety as possible as I know people will self treat (with or without that info) and i also list important links re: treatment etc. See this page for instance:
www.my-eboga.com/providers.html
As you point out your beef is not with the material I write on dealing with trauma. Your concern is with safety and you are absolutely right. Regarding the current debate I put out the alternate theory to elicit a response to widen the knowledge on this death. And the knowledge we now have is much more than we had. That does not mean I believe my own theory in this instance or that I am arrogant enough to think I can make a fully informed judgement – I have already consulted privately others who might know something on this for their opinion – but I can raise doubts. At present I am constructing a table of fatalities to be armed in public debate & also to help others, and I want to generate as much debate/off-list communication as possible to complete it:
www.my-eboga.com/risks.html
Looking through my own site there are 2 pages which border on technical advice. The rest is safe ground imo. They are:
www.my-eboga.com/administration.html
www.my-eboga.com/safety.html
On the top of the page on administration is this:
“I would like to share some personal observations on the taking of eboga (ibogaine) based on my own use over a 6 year period.”
Not to be boring but briefly my background is: 7 years of varied personal experience, an MSc in Chemistry, assisting and observation with 3 other providers and ongoing communication with 2 reputable providers, one of whom is a close friend. Any information that goes onto these pages is considered to be safe information in my judgement or alternative views that are worth pondering.
All that said, I would be grateful if you could point to any items of technical information I have listed on these 2 pages that are not generally accepted as good practise. The first item on the safety page is: Beginners Begin Low. I am happy to debate them and change them if the debate should indicate so.
I generally reread and amend these pages from time to time to try and be as spot on as I can be. I would not post these pages if I did not believe that on balance they are for the good. If there is something there you consider eroneous can you please point it out?
Thank you for making your concerns know. I am delighted that you have taken the time to question what I have posted on my site. It all helps to get things right in the end and any particular critical observation on what I have placed there is more than welcome.
In future I may set up a vetting procedure with this information and have it agreed upon by the providers with whom I am in contact. Thanks once again for your inadvertent guidance.
🙂
Lee
Krista Vaughan <krista.vaughan@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks for taking the time to write that Howard 🙂
I haven’t been here that long and I know you get knocked for some of
your views Lee and I think anyone who promotes knowledge of ibogaine
is doing a good thing, but some of the time when I read your site I
get a little weirded out. Not by the religion or pain stuff, to each
their own but you’re writing a lot of text about something you don’t
seem to understand that well. Information is incredibly useful, but
when it’s wrong or something that someone wrote in some file online or
conversation, is being used as a fact then it doesn’t seem like any of
it is that useful because the real information is often missing or
you’re going so fast and trying to fill up so many pages of text that
you don’t read what you’re quoting.
Not knowing anything and not caring is one thing, but what about
people who read something you write that is way way off, take it as
fact, then think they know what they’re doing when really most of what
they know is wrong it seems like they’d be better off with ignorance
then the wrong information.
How will you feel if someone follows your instructions or reads
something you wrote, takes it seriously and then dies following your
advice? I know that some on this list are incredibly smart and write
very detailed technical and medical articles even if they are not a
PHD like Howard, Patrick, Jon Freedlander some others, but reading
their texts I have this feeling that maybe I don’t understand all of
it, but it sounds like it makes sense. With a lot of what you write,
it looks like you’re taking a lot of things other people wrote, mixing
them all together with your opinions and then ending up with?
KV
On 11/27/05, HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 11/26/05 6:50:40 AM, myeboga@yahoo.co.uk writes:
>
>
>
> Last night thinking on this:
>
> The amount of extract for methadone withdrawal is 11 grams with Sara and 9
> grams with Marc Emery (who is very conservative in his approach but for good
> reason) per Howards:
>
> Forms & Dose Regimens
> www.ibogaine.desk.nl/ibogaine_forms_dose_regimen.ppt
> For Heroin withdrawal the amount Sara states is 7grams of extract.
>
>
>
> Dear Lee,
>
> I just wanted to provide some clarity as to the wording of your text
> above. First, thank you for providing the link to my powerpoint
> presentation on form, dose and regimen. What I want to be clear on is it is
> you and not I, who is stating that Marc Emery’s approach is conservative.
>
> You might take a look at the section of the Manual for Ibogaine Therapy
> that describes a dose regimen provided by Marc. Personally, it scared the
> hell out of me.
>
> http://ibogaine.org/manual.html#distreat
>
> “We have recently used the following regimen to clear a methadone dependent
> person who was taking 300 mg of methadone per day.
> At 52 hours after the patient’s last 300 mg. methadone dose, we gave him
> 5,200 mg Indra extract.
> Over the next 72 hours, the patient has no physical withdrawal as per usual
> (in other words, no diarrhea, vomiting, sweating, running nose, pounding
> headache) but felt miserable.
> 72 hours after the first dose of Indra extract, we gave him 100 mg Ibogaine
> Hydrochloride.
> 96 hours after the first dose of Indra extract, we gave him 100 mg.
> Ibogaine hydrochloride.
> 120 hours after the first dose of Indra extract, we gave him 3,800 mg.
> Indra extract.
> 168 hours after the first dose of Indra extract, we gave him 100 mg. Ibo
> HCI.
> 192 hours after the first dose of Indra extract, we gave him 100 mg. Ibo
> HCI.
> By his 11th day here (12 days from his last 300 mg. methadone dose), he was
> bright, sharp, lucid, no slurring, no signs of any methadone, no withdrawal
> or craving or discomfort of any kind. Patient said “I like the way I’m
> thinking now.”
> Patient ate little in the 12 days. Lost 25 pounds. Looks robust, healthy
> skin. “On methadone, I gained 110 pounds” he commented”. The ibogaine is
> returning him to his regular body weight I feel.”
>
> I would also like to bring to your attention two of the slides in my
> presentation that provide notices (caveats) relating to the dose information
> given.
>
> (slide)
> “All doses are representative. Doses, including single administration doses
> are determined on a patient by patient basis. The graphs of dose regimens
> and information that follow should not be used by persons without experience
> to self-administer or administer to others any dose of ibogaine or total
> alkaloid extract of Tabernanthe iboga.”
>
> (slide)
> “All doses and dose regimens shown or discussed are representative and are
> not indicated to be provided to any other patient or subject. All doses and
> dose regimens are made on a patient by patient basis upon knowledge and
> prior art.”
>
> The purpose of the slide presentation was to demonstrate the diversity of
> doses only and not to indicate doses that should be used nor to comment on
> whether the doses were conservative or aggressive, only that doses may be
> diverse and that patient responses may be equally diverse. The slides
> representing activity demonstrate how varied the effects can be.
>
> Thanks for your understanding.
>
> Howard
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death – Death in 2000 JW – Alternative Theory
Date: November 28, 2005 at 8:16:47 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Howard,
Thanks for posting this.
Lee
HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 11/26/05 6:50:40 AM, myeboga@yahoo.co.uk writes:
Last night thinking on this:
The amount of extract for methadone withdrawal is 11 grams with Sara and 9 grams with Marc Emery (who is very conservative in his approach but for good reason) per Howards:
Forms & Dose Regimens
www.ibogaine.desk.nl/ibogaine_forms_dose_regimen.ppt
For Heroin withdrawal the amount Sara states is 7grams of extract.
Dear Lee,
I just wanted to provide some clarity as to the wording of your text above.  First, thank you for providing the link to my powerpoint presentation on form, dose and regimen.  What I want to be clear on is it is you and not I, who is stating that Marc Emery’s approach is conservative.
You might take a look at the section of the Manual for Ibogaine Therapy that describes a dose regimen provided by Marc.  Personally, it scared the hell out of me.
http://ibogaine.org/manual.html#distreat
“We have recently used the following regimen to clear a methadone dependent person who was taking 300 mg of methadone per day.
At 52 hours after the patient’s last 300 mg. methadone dose, we gave him 5,200 mg Indra extract.
Over the next 72 hours, the patient has no physical withdrawal as per usual (in other words, no diarrhea, vomiting, sweating, running nose, pounding headache) but felt miserable.
72 hours after the first dose of Indra extract, we gave him 100 mg Ibogaine Hydrochloride.
96 hours after the first dose of Indra extract, we gave him 100 mg. Ibogaine hydrochloride.
120 hours after the first dose of Indra extract, we gave him 3,800 mg. Indra extract.
168 hours after the first dose of Indra extract, we gave him 100 mg. Ibo HCI.
192 hours after the first dose of Indra extract, we gave him 100 mg. Ibo HCI.
By his 11th day here (12 days from his last 300 mg. methadone dose), he was bright, sharp, lucid, no slurring, no signs of any methadone, no withdrawal or craving or discomfort of any kind. Patient said “I like the way I’m thinking now.”
Patient ate little in the 12 days. Lost 25 pounds. Looks robust, healthy skin. “On methadone, I gained 110 pounds” he commented”. The ibogaine is returning him to his regular body weight I feel.”
I would also like to bring to your attention two of the slides in my presentation that provide notices (caveats) relating to the dose information given.
(slide)
“All doses are representative. Doses, including single administration doses are determined on a patient by patient basis. The graphs of dose regimens and information that follow should not be used by persons without experience to self-administer or administer to others any dose of ibogaine or total alkaloid extract of Tabernanthe iboga.”
(slide)
“All doses and dose regimens shown or discussed are representative and are not indicated to be provided to any other patient or subject. All doses and dose regimens are made on a patient by patient basis upon knowledge and prior art.”
The purpose of the slide presentation was to demonstrate the diversity of doses only and not to indicate doses that should be used nor to comment on whether the doses were conservative or aggressive, only that doses may be diverse and that patient responses may be equally diverse.  The slides representing activity demonstrate how varied the effects can be.
Thanks for your understanding.
Howard
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] urgent message from the bwiti gang
Date: November 28, 2005 at 6:17:12 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
and the bwitit did give me this message to pass along so feel free to hand it out to anyone u wish
UNITY
and they also said that they have over 1kg of iboga hcl….all i could say is why… hcl?
crazy bwitist
Because HCl is also great! Don’t believe the ideas put out by the holistics who say you have to take whole root for they are operating from a position of low awareness. They cannot see that the division between what is man-made and what is nature-made is purely in the mind. Yes, this is the message! Did they say where it was?
Nick
with love
matt
Send junk mail straight into your Recycle Bin with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death – Death in 2000 JW – Alternative Theory – addition
Date: November 28, 2005 at 5:57:27 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
—–Original Message—–
From: Lee Albert [mailto:myeboga@yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: 27 November 2005 12:40
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death – Death in 2000 JW – Alternative Theory – addition
Hi Nick,
There are two q’s going through my mind:
1. Was Hep-C active in JW at the time or was he in remission?
2. What was his drug intake at the time?
Hi Lee,
I don’t know the answers to either of these questions. Sorry
Nick
Sorry to keep pushing this but I think there is a lot of fear around the dangers of ibogaine which is preventing us from looking at the obvious.
What I think is also clear is this: A knowledge of the problems that can result from withdrawals is knowledge which a provider should have. Perhaps Dr Ed would be good enough to put a link to a good book on the subject?
I notice on the iboga therapy website they have a very thorough and comprehensive screening and treatment program erring on the side of caution and includes a holistic approach to the treatment of addiction.
(See: www.pot-tv.net/ram/pottvshowse3558.ram) &
www.ibogatherapyhouse.com)
They also train their people to EMT level 1.
“First Responders (EMT 1) — are trained to provide basic emergency medical care because they tend to be the first persons to arrive at the scene of an incident. Many firefighters, police officers and other emergency workers have this level of training. The EMT-Basic, also known as EMT-1, represents the first component of the emergency medical technician system. An EMT-1 is trained to care for patients at the scene of an accident and while transporting patients by ambulance to the hospital under medical direction. The EMT-1 has the emergency skills to assess a patient’s condition and manage respiratory, cardiac and trauma emergencies.”
From reading the training on EMT and paramedics it seems to me that with proper equipment and a trained emergency paramedic at hand with access to a doctor on call, a client would receive a pretty secure medical environment.
Here is an excerpt from a training program:
“The EMT-Intermediate (EMT-2 and EMT-3) has more advanced training that allows the administration of intravenous fluids, the use of manual defibrillators to give life-saving shocks to a stopped heart, and the application of advanced airway techniques and equipment to assist patients experiencing respiratory emergencies. EMT-Paramedics (EMT-4) provide the most extensive prehospital care. In addition to carrying out the procedures already described, paramedics may administer drugs orally and intravenously, interpret electrocardiograms (EKGs), perform endotracheal intubations, and use monitors and other complex equipment.”
From what i have read they are also able to interpret the kinds of heart conditions that have been flagged and to respond appropriately.
I would add that it seems to me that rehydration via intravenous drip would seem a good standard if possible.
I wonder is there any way Providers could recieve inexpensive EMT level 1 training? Perhaps someone from the Iboga Therapy House could tell us how they manage it and what it costs?
Lee
Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
this actually does make a lot of sense to me too.
the idea that low doses that really are not large enough may leave a patient
ill, in withdrwal, and not able to deal with adverse health conditions.
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 8:19 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death – Death in 2000 JW – Alternative
Theory – addition
Something which maybe we can consider with this death is this:
In administering extract or HCl a dose which is insufficient or low may
precipitate adverse medical conditions due to the onset of withdrawals and
clients need to be carefully supervised in the days following treatment to
ensure the risk of such events has passed.
Lee
Lee Albert wrote:
Nick,
Thanks mucho. The extra info you have given here is great. Many thanks.
Last night thinking on this:
The amount of extract for methadone withdrawal is 11 grams with Sara and 9
grams with Marc Emery (who is very conservative in his approach but for good
reason) per Howards:
Forms & Dose Regimens
www.ibogaine.desk.nl/ibogaine_forms_dose_regimen.ppt
For Heroin withdrawal the amount Sara states is 7grams of extract.
According to: http://userpages.umbc.edu/~jfreed1/Ibogaine.html
The third recorded fatality occurred in 2000, in the U.K. The patient was a
38 year old male, and suffered from hepatitis C. He was administered a total
of approximately 5 grams of a total iboga extract standardised to 15%
ibogaine. This was a most peculiar case, as the fatality did not occur until
after the effects of ibogaine had subsided, 38 hours after initial
administration. Police toxicologist Dr. John Taylor told testified that the
level of ibogaine in the dead man’s blood was “well below the normal toxic
dose” (Kerr, 2001). According to writer Nick Sandberg (2002), the official
inquest named the primary cause of death as asphyxiation due to vomit
clogging airways, with liver failure as a secondary cause.
What is interesting is that this states 5grams and indeed most of the other
reports I have seen also state 5 grams, so I am not sure if you are 100% on
the amount?
Anyway, I assume JW was being treated for Heroin or was he on Methadone
maintenance at the time?
In either case, the amount he took is below what would normally be given and
I am left with the thought that death may have been due to insufficient
iboga extract been given resulting in an onset of late withdrawls agitated
in part by choking on a sandwich. This coupled with any other health issues
JW may have had such as Hep C. According to Dr Ed:
“Disorders appearing during “recovery,” included gastrointestinal
hyperactivity/acidity (ulcers, gastro-esophageal reflux, diarrhea, etc.) and
thrombosis (coronary occlusions, thrombophlebitis with pulmonary
embolism/infarction, arterial thrombosis-mesenteric occlusion/cerebral
artery strokes) and infection at sites previous dormant during stress
(pneumonia, dental and skin abscesses, etc.) In addition, gastro-esophageal
reflux is known to lead to aspiration of acidic stomach contents into the
lungs, causing “asthma-like” symptoms and sometimes sudden death (e.g.
Reggie White of Green Bay Packer fame).”
5grams of extract (based on the generally recognised 15% ibogaine content)
is equivalent to 750mg of ibogaine (6=900mg), a very small amount indeed.
For a 70kg male = 10,7mg/kg and 12,85 mg/kg respectively. In either case
much too low for heroin interruption treatment especially if only 5grams
were given.
So I find myself reading the coroners conclusions as basically uninformed
and highly speculative as the coroner knew nothing of the amounts of
ibogaine/extract needed for addiction treatment and perhaps knew nothing
about the complications of withdrawal as stated by Dr. Ed (whose
contributions to this list I find “wonderful”).
In this case I think withdrawals of some kind were inevitable and what this
report shows about the dangers of ibogaine or the extract itself, as opposed
to withdrawing from heroin, is this: nothing. Its quite possibly a big red
herring. In fact one could argue that death was due to insufficient
ibogaine/extract been given.
Lee
Nick Sandberg wrote:
—–Original Message—–
From: Lee Albert [mailto:myeboga@yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: 25 November 2005 16:30
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death:
Nick,
Can you set the record even straighter?
There is some confusion about this death in 2000 due to the extract.
I have heard it reported as:
1. Ate a large meal a few days after treatment, burst a vessel, ruptured the
stomach .
and as you state below:
2. Choked on a sandwich somehow dying on his own vomit while left unattended
in the toilet.
Hi Lee,
I’ve not heard of the first scenario. It was number 2. I knew the girl who
gave the treatment and was at the inquest, both sittings. When the patient
began to die paramedics were called and one said that it looked like a
stomach burst. This story got propagated about for a while as it was another
year until the actual inquest began. The first inquest was adjourned when I
pointed out that J had not taken actual ibogaine but rather the Indra iboga
extract. Dr Mash was contacted by the pathologist and she confirmed that the
blood samples taken show low traces of iboga extract not pure ibogaine. The
pathologist’s report put cause of death down to inhalation of vomit, if I
recall correctly, but am not 100% on this. The coroner recorded “fatal
reaction to t.iboga extract.” Dr Mash was keen that ibogaine itself not be
blamed when J had not taken it. A year or so later t.iboga was put on a list
of substances due to be controlled in the UK. However the paper never went
through, there were 50 or so other herbs on it, and thus iboga is still not
scheduled in the UK. (Though supply would likely be an offense).
Are these two sceanarios the same person?
Maybe I need to reread this thread but how exactly does dying from inhaling
ones fluids imply that ibogaine/eboga extract is unsafe?
Frankly, if there had been a defense pathologist in court (one defending the
iboga extract) I very much doubt that the verdict would have come out the
way it did. It’s more that the coroner, Paul Knapp, if I recall, regarded it
as his duty to warn the public of any dangerous new substances about (fair
enough in a way) and as there was no one there to cross examine the state
pathologist he did just that.
Let me know if you need more
Nick
Thanks
Lee
Nick Sandberg wrote:
Just to set the record straighter, an ibogaine death actually HAS been
attributed to vomiting and inhaling associated fluids. JW, Jan 2000 in
London, died in this manner after taking 6g of iboga extract to treat long
term opiate dependency. Coroner recorded “fatal reaction to t.iboga
extract.” He died when left unattended briefly after eating a sandwich some
38 hours after taking the drug.
Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: Matthew Shriver [mailto:matt@itsupport.net]
Sent: 25 November 2005 03:23
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death:
Well having read all of that again I still don’t see where he said “Ibogaine
deaths have been attributed to vomiting and inhaling associated fluids”
Maybe it’s all the same to you but in reality you put words into someone
else’s mouth. I don’t even see that idea implied here. If we are talking
about people dying it’s important that we are accurate, misinformation can
be as bad as disinformation. The implication is that death by aspiration
could occur in someone undergoing NARCOTIC WITHDRAWAL, not from ibogaine
use.
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net]
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 7:58 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death:
Matt, here is a quote:
Edfriedrichs@aol.com wrote:
It is worth noting that Vomiting leading to Aspiration into the Lungs CAN
AND DOES CAUSE sudden death (asphyxiation/drowning). Vomiting is certainly
a frequent part of narcotic withdrawal, especially if the stomach is full of
food from recent eating. That is why when someone suffers a convulsive
seizure, it is important to prevent vomiting/aspiration and/or obstruction
of the air-way by the tongue. Benzo withdrawal can also cause seizures,
sometimes days after stopping valium because valium is “long” acting as a
dependency drug. You can prolong alcohol withdrawal with “too much”
benzodiazapine” treatment, because they are a sedative substitute for
alcohol. Those are SOME of the reasons that Withdrawal of any fashion and
especially Ibogaine treatments should have a sophisticated helper present
thruout, ideally a medically trained one AND no hestitancy to call “911.”
Peace, Dr. Ed
While looking this up, I found this:
In addition, gastro-esophageal reflux is known to lead to aspiration of
acidic stomach contents into the lungs, causing “asthma-like” symptoms and
sometimes sudden death (e.g. Reggie White of Green Bay Packer fame).
Seems like he has already answered my idiotic question, I just lost it in
the threads. My point was, the threat is not from vomiting, but from reflux.
Inhalation CAN and is more likely to occur without the obvious signs of
vomiting, a patient can be lying quietly on their back and their stomach
just starts draining into their lungs. My intent is to alert caregivers that
sudden choking of a benign patient may be indicative of this, and as they
will be unable to communicate, (inhaling stomach acid is akin to inhaling a
lit propane torch soaked in gasoline) just don’t freak out. Vomiting may
come afterwards, after SEVERE gagging, choking and coughing, and vocal
chords will be impaired, singed, so to speak, for quite a while. ANYBODY who
is “Knocked out” is susceptible to this, not just Ibo patients.
Am I right, Doc?
Geez, I luv you guys, thanx for being here!
Matthew Shriver wrote:
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net]
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 6:59 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death:
What I’m asking is, when you say Ibogaine deaths have been attributed to
vomiting and inhaling associated fluids, are you talking about reflux
inhalation?
I am pretty sure I never read Dr Ed saying that.
Edfriedrichs@aol.com wrote:
The esophageal sphincter HAS to relax whenever there is vomiting, otherwise
the acid and food would stay in the stomach. Reflux happens easier during
reclining sleep, if the esophageal sphincter is weak or permanently ruptured
by an “diaphrag-matic hernia” from the abdomen into the chest. Dr. Ed.
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Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six
year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those
already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six
year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those
already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six
year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those
already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death – Death in 2000 JW – Alternative  Theory
Date: November 28, 2005 at 2:05:40 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
the info. below is not correct.
11 gram will not be taken at once but in stepwise in small dosages,only
if the person needs it and that is to observe during the treatment, that
is not a rule and i will not advice anyone to do that.
beside Marc Emery got the info. about the use of step dosages
for methedone withdrawals from me. only he put it in his own words
as if he was a knowledgable provider who had treated people but as we all
know already Sandra K. was doing the job.
Emery was getting the credits because he donated money to those
foundations which promote him only. thanks for waking up, MAPS people,
maybe Sandra will get the credits in the future.
Sara
In a message dated 11/26/05 6:50:40 AM, myeboga@yahoo.co.uk writes:
Last night thinking on this:
The amount of extract for methadone withdrawal is 11 grams with Sara
and 9
grams with Marc Emery (who is very conservative in his approach but for
good
reason) per Howards:
Forms & Dose Regimens
www.ibogaine.desk.nl/ibogaine_forms_dose_regimen.ppt
For Heroin withdrawal the amount Sara states is 7grams of extract.
Dear Lee,
I just wanted to provide some clarity as to the wording of your text
above.
First, thank you for providing the link to my powerpoint presentation on
form, dose and regimen.   What I want to be clear on is it is you and not
I, who
is stating that Marc Emery’s approach is conservative.
You might take a look at the section of the Manual for Ibogaine Therapy
that
describes a dose regimen provided by Marc.   Personally, it scared the
hell
out of me.
http://ibogaine.org/manual.html#distreat
“We have recently used the following regimen to clear a methadone
dependent
person who was taking 300 mg of methadone per day.
At 52 hours after the patient’s last 300 mg. methadone dose, we gave him
5,200 mg Indra extract.
Over the next 72 hours, the patient has no physical withdrawal as per
usual
(in other words, no diarrhea, vomiting, sweating, running nose, pounding
headache) but felt miserable.
72 hours after the first dose of Indra extract, we gave him 100 mg
Ibogaine
Hydrochloride.
96 hours after the first dose of Indra extract, we gave him 100 mg.
Ibogaine
hydrochloride.
120 hours after the first dose of Indra extract, we gave him 3,800 mg.
Indra
extract.
168 hours after the first dose of Indra extract, we gave him 100 mg. Ibo
HCI.
192 hours after the first dose of Indra extract, we gave him 100 mg. Ibo
HCI.
By his 11th day here (12 days from his last 300 mg. methadone dose), he
was
bright, sharp, lucid, no slurring, no signs of any methadone, no
withdrawal or
craving or discomfort of any kind. Patient said “I like the way I’m
thinking
now.”
Patient ate little in the 12 days. Lost 25 pounds. Looks robust, healthy
skin. “On methadone, I gained 110 pounds” he commented”. The ibogaine is
returning
him to his regular body weight I feel.”
I would also like to bring to your attention two of the slides in my
presentation that provide notices (caveats) relating to the dose
information given.
(slide)
“All doses are representative. Doses, including single administration
doses
are determined on a patient by patient basis. The graphs of dose regimens
and
information that follow should not be used by persons without experience
to
self-administer or administer to others any dose of ibogaine or total
alkaloid
extract of Tabernanthe iboga.”
(slide)
“All doses and dose regimens shown or discussed are representative and are
not indicated to be provided to any other patient or subject. All doses
and dose
regimens are made on a patient by patient basis upon knowledge and prior
art
.”
The purpose of the slide presentation was to demonstrate the diversity of
doses only and not to indicate doses that should be used nor to comment on
whether the doses were conservative or aggressive, only that doses may be
diverse
and that patient responses may be equally diverse.   The slides
representing
activity demonstrate how varied the effects can be.
Thanks for your understanding.
Howard
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From: kiersten johnson <kiers10@mac.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT Secret Service, U.S. intel say Bush uses cocaine, prozac, alcohol
Date: November 28, 2005 at 2:03:42 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Preston and everyone,
As much as I would love to see the so-called leader of the so-called free world fried, indeed carmelized,  and arrested, and put away for a very long time behind bars, and not in one of those fancy martha stewart style wildflower growing minimum security situations, but a really gritty, gnarly, dank house of corrections, the article, when it does cite a source, calls upon the great authority of those august reporters at the National Enquirer. That pretty much means that, whether these allegations are actually true, this particular reportage is a luscious fiction. We don’t need to make shit up to prove that the man and his cadre are lunatics and hypocritical malicious maniacs. And citing such drivel kinda makes us look like the crazy ladies in curlers and slippers in front of you in line at the quickie-mart who marvel over Elvis citings or really really believe that that two-headed baby was born on Venus and traveled to earth  in a golden peapod, because that’s how they do it on Venus, and one day it will grow up just in time to save the world….
cheers and x0x
Kiersten
On Nov 27, 2005, at 10:12 AM, jon wrote:
Hi Preston,
Glad to hear you’re doing well =) I wouldn’t beat yourself up about the dilaudid… i mean you obviously have a legitimate medical reason for using it from time to time. I’d only start to worry if you find yourself using it for reasons other than that legitimate medical reason…
Anyhow, this article you posted reminded me a lot of some passages from the Illuminatus! trilogy…
“Don’t say wop,” the President shouted back. “How many times do I have to tell you? Don’t say wop or kike or any of those words anymore.” He spoke with some asperity, since he lived daily with the dread that someday the secret tapes he kept of all Oval Room transactions would be released to the public. He had long ago vowed that if that day ever came, the tapes would not be full of “(expletive deleted)” or “(characterization deleted).” He was harassed, but still he spoke with authority. He was, in fact, characteristic of the best type of dominant male in the world at this time. He was fifty-five years old, tough, shrewd, unburdened by the complicated ethical ambiguities which puzzle intellectuals, and had long ago decided that the world was a mean son-of-a-bitch in which only the most cunning and ruthless can survive. He was also as kind as was possible for one holding that ultra-Darwinian philosophy; and he genuinely loved children and dogs, unless they were on the site of something that had to be bombed in the National Interest. He still retained some sense of humor, despite the burdens of his almost godly office, and, although he had been impotent with his wife for nearly ten years now, he generally achieved orgasm in the mouth of a skilled prostitute within 1.5 minutes. He took amphetamine pep pills to keep going on his grueling twenty-hour day, with the result that his vision of the world was somewhat skewed in a paranoid direction, and he took tranquilizers to keep from worrying too much, with the result that his detachment sometimes bordered on the schizophrenic; but most of the time his innate shrewdness gave him a fingernail grip on reality. In short, he was much like the rulers of Russia and China.
……
In Moscow, where it was ten the next morning, the Premier called a conference and said crisply, “That character in Washington is a mental lunatic, and he means it. Get our men out of Fernando Poo right away, then find out who authorized sending them in there in the first place and transfer him to be supervisor of a hydroelectric works in Outer Mongolia.”
“We don’t have any men in Fernando Poo,” a commissar said mournfully. ‘The Americans are imagining things again.”
“Well, how the hell can we withdraw men if we don’t have them there in the first place?” the Premier demanded.
“I don’t know. We’ve got twenty-four hours to figure that out, or-” the commissar quoted an old Russian proverb which means, roughly, that when the polar bear excrement interferes with the fan belts, the machinery overheats.
“Suppose we just announce that our troops are coming out?” another commissar suggested. “They can’t say we’re lying if they don’t find any of our troops there afterward.”
“No, they never believe anything we say. They want to be shown,” the premier said thoughtfully. “We’ll have to infiltrate some troops surreptitiously and then withdraw them with a lot of fanfare and publicity. That should do it.”
“I’m afraid it won’t end the problem,” another pommissar said funereally. “Our intelligence indicates that there are Chinese troops there. Unless Peking backs down, we’re going to be caught in the middle when the bombs start flying and-” he quoted a proverb about the man in the intersection when two manure trucks collide.
“Damn,” the Premier said. “What the blue blazes do the Chinese want with Fernando Poo?”
He was harassed, but still he spoke with authority. He was, in fact, characteristic of the best type of dominant male in the world at this time. He was fifty-five years old, tough, shrewd, unburdened by the complicated ethical ambiguities which puzzle intellectuals, and had long ago decided that the world was a mean son-of-a-bitch in which only the most cunning and ruthless can survive. He was also as kind as was possible for one holding that ultra-Darwinian philosophy; and he genuinely loved children and dogs, unless they were on the site of something that had to be bombed in the National Interest. He still retained some sense of humor, despite the burdens of his almost godly office, and although he had been impotent with his wife for nearly ten years now, he generally achieved orgasm in the mouth of a skilled prostitute within 1.5 minutes. He took amphetamine pep pills to keep going on his grueling twenty-hour day, with the result that his vision of the world was somewhat skewed in a paranoid direction, and he took tranquilizers to keep from worrying too much, with the result that his detachment sometimes bordered on schizophrenia; but most of the time his innate shrewdness gave him a fingernail grip on reality. In short, he was much like the rulers of America and China.
…..
“We’ll just get our troops out of Fernando Poo,” the Chairman of the Chinese Communist party said on April 1. “A place that size isn’t worth world war.”
“But we don’t have any troops there,” an aide told him, “it’s the Russians who do.”
“Oh?” the Chairman quoted a proverb to the effect that there was urine in the rosewater. “I wonder what the hell the Russians want with Fernando Poo?” he added thoughtfully.
He was harassed, but still he spoke with authority. He was, in fact, characteristic of the best type of dominant male in the world at this time. He was fifty-five years old, tough, shrewd, unburdened by the complicated ethical ambiguities which puzzle intellectuals, and had long ago decided that the world was a mean son-of-a-bitch in which only the most cunning and ruthless can survive. He was also as kind as was possible for one holding that ultra-Darwinian philosophy; and he genuinely loved children and dogs, unless they were on the site of something that had to be bombed in the National Interest. He still retained some sense of humor, despite the burdens of his almost godly office, and, although he had been impotent with his wife for nearly ten years now, he generally achieved orgasm in the mouth of a skilled prostitute within 1.5 minutes. He took amphetamine pep pills to keep going on his grueling twenty-hour day, with the result that his vision of the world was somewhat skewed in a paranoid direction, and he took tranquilizers to keep from worrying too much, with the result that his detachment sometimes bordered on the schizophrenic; but most of the time his innate shrewdness gave him a fingernail grip on reality. In short, he was much like the rulers of America and Russia.
HI all and happy Sunday morning.
I ran into a very old friend and fellow ibogaine list member, who noted more than once how happy he was to see me doing (or looking, I wasn’t always sure) so well compared to how I have at time been doing, which was a nice thing to hear (more than once, so it coulda also been the alcohol he was drinking- still, I prefer to put it down to his honest observations), as it only validate my decision and the carrying out of said decision.
Which btw, I have to say I’m doing remarkably well with (KNOCK LOUDLY UPON WOOD, THREE TIMES- personal twist on superstious bologna, so please humor me) my severe, strict adherance to my own personal teeny level of medical pain relief, trying to see if I can manage to do it on my own, but I have found there have been more than once when I simply had to take a couple dilaudid (orally) to help nail the swelling, heaving, growing pain. Otherwise, I’m for the moment doing well and am trying to give myself credit for doing so. I think it’s going to take a little while for it to become obvious to certain other sthat I mean what I’ve said and really am doing this, among other behavioral and habit changes that have nothing to do with drugs. If I get the time to show it instead of saying it (which I’m not doing except here in print, which is why I noted I’m trying to give myself credit because I can’t do it anywhere else- these are what I use as my groups instead of classic -A type grounps, as I told my friend last night) no problem I believe.
Anyway, on with the article about the President using hard drugs both legal and non.
Ohhhhh, if only this story is true, it’s a beaut. But….
Personally I’m never sure just how to take Tom Flocco’s information and reporting,
as he seems to pretty far in accusatory language but doesn’t seem to always
source his info, often who are “un-named,” or “anonymous,”  which makes it difficult to follow up on the story, (although out of the rest of the articles total reliance on unnamed sources all over the place, the name of the doctor supposedly writing the prescriptions for Ritilan and Prozac for Bush is named, a Col. Richard J. Tubb, the White House physician, so feel free to follow this up if you have the time) such as this juicy but gossipy
piece on George W. Bush not only still drinking, but taking Prozac as well as
doing cocaine, these days as President of the United States, not years ago as
a frat boy or US Navy pilot. If this story is true that is.
http://www.tomflocco.com/fs/SecretServIntelSay.htm
Tom Flocco.com
http://tomflocco.com/
Secret Service, U.S. intel say Bush uses cocaine, prozac, alcohol
Date: Thursday, November 17
Topic: —
“It is not for kings, O Lemuel-not for kings to drink wine, not for rulers to crave beer, lest they drink and forget what the law decrees, and deprive all the oppressed of their rights.” Proverbs 31: 4-5
Secret Service, U.S. intel say Bush uses cocaine, Prozac, alcohol
Federal agents question out-of-control White House operating “under the influence” while continuing historical pattern of untested drug usage at highest levels places presidents above the law, jeopardizing the safety of all Americans
by Tom Flocco
Washington-November 17, 2005-TomFlocco.com-Secret Service members attached to White House domestic security, FBI and CIA agents, and written national security field reports all confirm that President Bush has been using drugs which could be affecting his performance as the nation’s war-time commander-in-chief.
Multiple federal agents having direct knowledge and access to Bush’s medical records say the President has switched from using Ritalin to taking Prozac while also succumbing to periodic alcoholic binges which have led to tirades and explosive personal conduct among White House aides, absent required random drug testing of all public employees and elected officials.
Federal law enforcement agents have at different times witnessed President Bush doing lines of cocaine in the early morning hours at the White House and drinking straight shots of whiskey in the evening hours on other occasions, according to U.S. intelligence sources who confirm multiple stories appearing in the tabloid press which say the First Lady is assigned to “keep an eye on him.”
Bush’s alleged conduct raises serious questions as to what effect the chemicals are having on his oval office decision-making, and why Democrats and Republicans facing coming voter backlash-while undoubtedly having heard the whispers-are failing to call for the release of Bush’s medical records for bipartisan congressional scrutiny.
Legislators have also failed to ask Bush to submit to drug-testing when they required President Clinton to submit to similar tests to confirm a match of his DNA with spots found on Monica Lewinsky’s blue dress-a matter of far less consequence to U.S. national security than the effects of Mr. Bush’s alleged ongoing chemical dependency.
Having observed the President smirk and laugh when discussing the war or other serious matters of state at press conferences, the White House press corps has thus far refused to muster the courage to ask whether Bush will have himself tested for drugs or whether he considers himself above the law compared to all other federal employees.
U.S. intelligence sources having direct contact with White House domestic security told TomFlocco.com that multiple federal agents would be willing to testify before a grand jury if subpoenaed regarding what they have seen and heard pertaining to Mr. Bush’s drug and alcohol usage.
Secret Service and intelligence officials are reportedly concerned about public safety while Mr. Bush has access to nuclear weapons without being subject to random drug testing to determine how the addictions are affecting his ability to govern.
Bush’s doses of Ritalin and Prozac are reportedly administered by Col. Richard J. Tubb, the White House physician; and medical journals say they can impair the President’s mental faculties and decrease both his physical capabilities and his ability to respond to a crisis.
Medical reports also say that mixing cocaine with alcohol produces a substance in the blood called “cocaethylene” which can be more toxic to the body than the cocaine itself.
Dr. Justin Frank, a Washington D.C. psychiatrist and author of Bush On The Couch-Inside The Mind Of The President, told The National Enquirer: “I do think that Bush is drinking again. Alcoholics who are not in any program, like the President, have a hard time when stress gets to be great.”
snip-
Peace and love,
Preston Peet
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
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From: Krista Vaughan <krista.vaughan@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death – Death in 2000 JW – Alternative Theory
Date: November 28, 2005 at 12:19:24 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Thanks for taking the time to write that Howard 🙂
I haven’t been here that long and I know you get knocked for some of
your views Lee and I think anyone who promotes knowledge of ibogaine
is doing a good thing, but some of the time when I read your site I
get a little weirded out. Not by the religion or pain stuff, to each
their own but you’re writing a lot of text about something you don’t
seem to understand that well. Information is incredibly useful, but
when it’s wrong or something that someone wrote in some file online or
conversation, is being used as a fact then it doesn’t seem like any of
it is that useful because the real information is often missing or
you’re going so fast and trying to fill up so many pages of text that
you don’t read what you’re quoting.
Not knowing anything and not caring is one thing, but what about
people who read something you write that is way way off, take it as
fact, then think they know what they’re doing when really most of what
they know is wrong it seems like they’d be better off with ignorance
then the wrong information.
How will you feel if someone follows your instructions or reads
something you wrote, takes it seriously and then dies following your
advice? I know that some on this list are incredibly smart and write
very detailed technical and medical articles even if they are not a
PHD like Howard, Patrick, Jon Freedlander some others, but reading
their texts I have this feeling that maybe I don’t understand all of
it, but it sounds like it makes sense. With a lot of what you write,
it looks like you’re taking a lot of things other people wrote, mixing
them all together with your opinions and then ending up with?
KV
On 11/27/05, HSLotsof@aol.com <HSLotsof@aol.com> wrote:
In a message dated 11/26/05 6:50:40 AM, myeboga@yahoo.co.uk writes:
Last night thinking on this:
The amount of extract for methadone withdrawal is 11 grams with Sara and 9
grams with Marc Emery (who is very conservative in his approach but for good
reason) per Howards:
Forms & Dose Regimens
www.ibogaine.desk.nl/ibogaine_forms_dose_regimen.ppt
For Heroin withdrawal the amount Sara states is 7grams of extract.
Dear Lee,
I just wanted to provide some clarity as to the wording of your text
above.  First, thank you for providing the link to my powerpoint
presentation on form, dose and regimen.  What I want to be clear on is it is
you and not I, who is stating that Marc Emery’s approach is conservative.
You might take a look at the section of the Manual for Ibogaine Therapy
that describes a dose regimen provided by Marc.  Personally, it scared the
hell out of me.
http://ibogaine.org/manual.html#distreat
“We have recently used the following regimen to clear a methadone dependent
person who was taking 300 mg of methadone per day.
At 52 hours after the patient’s last 300 mg. methadone dose, we gave him
5,200 mg Indra extract.
Over the next 72 hours, the patient has no physical withdrawal as per usual
(in other words, no diarrhea, vomiting, sweating, running nose, pounding
headache) but felt miserable.
72 hours after the first dose of Indra extract, we gave him 100 mg Ibogaine
Hydrochloride.
96 hours after the first dose of Indra extract, we gave him 100 mg.
Ibogaine hydrochloride.
120 hours after the first dose of Indra extract, we gave him 3,800 mg.
Indra extract.
168 hours after the first dose of Indra extract, we gave him 100 mg. Ibo
HCI.
192 hours after the first dose of Indra extract, we gave him 100 mg. Ibo
HCI.
By his 11th day here (12 days from his last 300 mg. methadone dose), he was
bright, sharp, lucid, no slurring, no signs of any methadone, no withdrawal
or craving or discomfort of any kind. Patient said “I like the way I’m
thinking now.”
Patient ate little in the 12 days. Lost 25 pounds. Looks robust, healthy
skin. “On methadone, I gained 110 pounds” he commented”. The ibogaine is
returning him to his regular body weight I feel.”
I would also like to bring to your attention two of the slides in my
presentation that provide notices (caveats) relating to the dose information
given.
(slide)
“All doses are representative. Doses, including single administration doses
are determined on a patient by patient basis. The graphs of dose regimens
and information that follow should not be used by persons without experience
to self-administer or administer to others any dose of ibogaine or total
alkaloid extract of Tabernanthe iboga.”
(slide)
“All doses and dose regimens shown or discussed are representative and are
not indicated to be provided to any other patient or subject. All doses and
dose regimens are made on a patient by patient basis upon knowledge and
prior art.”
The purpose of the slide presentation was to demonstrate the diversity of
doses only and not to indicate doses that should be used nor to comment on
whether the doses were conservative or aggressive, only that doses may be
diverse and that patient responses may be equally diverse.  The slides
representing activity demonstrate how varied the effects can be.
Thanks for your understanding.
Howard
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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death – Death in 2000 JW – Alternative Theory
Date: November 27, 2005 at 11:51:40 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In a message dated 11/26/05 6:50:40 AM, myeboga@yahoo.co.uk writes:
Last night thinking on this:
The amount of extract for methadone withdrawal is 11 grams with Sara and 9 grams with Marc Emery (who is very conservative in his approach but for good reason) per Howards:
Forms & Dose Regimens
www.ibogaine.desk.nl/ibogaine_forms_dose_regimen.ppt
For Heroin withdrawal the amount Sara states is 7grams of extract.
Dear Lee,
I just wanted to provide some clarity as to the wording of your text above.  First, thank you for providing the link to my powerpoint presentation on form, dose and regimen.  What I want to be clear on is it is you and not I, who is stating that Marc Emery’s approach is conservative.
You might take a look at the section of the Manual for Ibogaine Therapy that describes a dose regimen provided by Marc.  Personally, it scared the hell out of me.
http://ibogaine.org/manual.html#distreat
“We have recently used the following regimen to clear a methadone dependent person who was taking 300 mg of methadone per day.
At 52 hours after the patient’s last 300 mg. methadone dose, we gave him 5,200 mg Indra extract.
Over the next 72 hours, the patient has no physical withdrawal as per usual (in other words, no diarrhea, vomiting, sweating, running nose, pounding headache) but felt miserable.
72 hours after the first dose of Indra extract, we gave him 100 mg Ibogaine Hydrochloride.
96 hours after the first dose of Indra extract, we gave him 100 mg. Ibogaine hydrochloride.
120 hours after the first dose of Indra extract, we gave him 3,800 mg. Indra extract.
168 hours after the first dose of Indra extract, we gave him 100 mg. Ibo HCI.
192 hours after the first dose of Indra extract, we gave him 100 mg. Ibo HCI.
By his 11th day here (12 days from his last 300 mg. methadone dose), he was bright, sharp, lucid, no slurring, no signs of any methadone, no withdrawal or craving or discomfort of any kind. Patient said “I like the way I’m thinking now.”
Patient ate little in the 12 days. Lost 25 pounds. Looks robust, healthy skin. “On methadone, I gained 110 pounds” he commented”. The ibogaine is returning him to his regular body weight I feel.”
I would also like to bring to your attention two of the slides in my presentation that provide notices (caveats) relating to the dose information given.
(slide)
“All doses are representative. Doses, including single administration doses are determined on a patient by patient basis. The graphs of dose regimens and information that follow should not be used by persons without experience to self-administer or administer to others any dose of ibogaine or total alkaloid extract of Tabernanthe iboga.”
(slide)
“All doses and dose regimens shown or discussed are representative and are not indicated to be provided to any other patient or subject. All doses and dose regimens are made on a patient by patient basis upon knowledge and prior art.”
The purpose of the slide presentation was to demonstrate the diversity of doses only and not to indicate doses that should be used nor to comment on whether the doses were conservative or aggressive, only that doses may be diverse and that patient responses may be equally diverse.  The slides representing activity demonstrate how varied the effects can be.
Thanks for your understanding.
Howard
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] 75 bands.
Date: November 27, 2005 at 9:37:20 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
green day. has that been said?
From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] hcl question
Date: November 27, 2005 at 9:12:16 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
yesterday i had a wiked session but was puking alot…..dry heaving to the point where i could only get little breaths in
i wiped some spittle of the vomit onto a towel and noticed today that the spot is completly burned out….bleeched out
if hcl does that to fabric what does it do in the stomach or the liver????
with love
I can’t say this for sure, but it’s probably more likely that it was your stomach acids that bleached the towel, rather than the ibogaine.
Remember, pure stomach acid is powerful enough to burn through steel. =)
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From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] hcl question
Date: November 27, 2005 at 6:57:50 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
yesterday i had a wiked session but was puking alot…..dry heaving to the point where i could only get little breaths in
i wiped some spittle of the vomit onto a towel and noticed today that the spot is completly burned out….bleeched out
if hcl does that to fabric what does it do in the stomach or the liver????
with love
matt
Enjoy 25MB of inbox storage and 10MB per file attachment with MSN Premium. Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death – Death in 2000 JW – Alternative Theory
Date: November 27, 2005 at 5:23:38 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
—–Original Message—–
From: Lee Albert [mailto:myeboga@yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: 26 November 2005 11:50
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death – Death in 2000 JW – Alternative Theory
Nick,
Thanks mucho. The extra info you have given here is great. Many thanks.
Last night thinking on this:
The amount of extract for methadone withdrawal is 11 grams with Sara and 9 grams with Marc Emery (who is very conservative in his approach but for good reason) per Howards:
Forms & Dose Regimens
www.ibogaine.desk.nl/ibogaine_forms_dose_regimen.ppt
For Heroin withdrawal the amount Sara states is 7grams of extract.
According to: http://userpages.umbc.edu/~jfreed1/Ibogaine.html
 The third recorded fatality occurred in 2000, in the U.K. The patient was a 38 year old male, and suffered from hepatitis C. He was administered a total of approximately 5 grams of a total iboga extract standardised to 15% ibogaine. This was a most peculiar case, as the fatality did not occur until after the effects of ibogaine had subsided, 38 hours after initial administration. Police toxicologist Dr. John Taylor told testified that the level of ibogaine in the dead man’s blood was “well below the normal toxic dose” (Kerr, 2001). According to writer Nick Sandberg (2002), the official inquest named the primary cause of death as asphyxiation due to vomit clogging airways, with liver failure as a secondary cause.
What is interesting is that this states 5grams and indeed most of the other reports I have seen also state 5 grams, so I am not sure if you are 100% on the amount?
Hi Lee,
What I recall is that JW took 6g of the Indra. I think this is what J, who carried out the treatment (not JW), was told was a good dose for opiate addiction by Carl. I’m pretty sure this was the figure he was putting out while he was in London. I think some was left over and was later analysed by Dr Mash’s lab which may be where 15% comes from. The iboga extract JW took wasn’t standardized. HPLC tests on separate samples of Indra have since shown considerable differences in ibogaine content. I think a 13% spread was noticed between just two samples.This would seem to indicate that the extract wasn’t homogenized or that parts of it had somehow degenerated more than others. Thus there could have been “hot spots” in what JW took and it’s likely hard to make accurate estimates of his actual dose of alkaloids.
About “cause of death” – the pathologist’s report indicated asphyxiation, but in the actual inquest primary cause was recorded as Fatal Reaction to T.iboga Extract.
Anyway, I assume JW was being treated for Heroin or was he on Methadone maintenance at the time?
I think it was methadone.
In either case, the amount he took is below what would normally be given and I am left with the thought that death may have been due to insufficient iboga extract been given resulting in an onset of late withdrawls agitated in part by choking on a sandwich. This coupled with any other health issues JW may have had such as Hep C. According to Dr Ed:
In Jan 2000, 6g was the reckoned dose. 5 years down the line you may well need more, as the stuff was all produced some decades ago for the Danish government, or so the story goes, and of course it does degenerate. Someone from Indra may be able to give more accurate or up to date info.
About your theory above, I don’t know enough about the withdrawal process to comment. The death occurred 38 hours after ingestion, and J told me that JW was coherent and talking about his life for many hours prior to dying. He was exhibiting every sign of having gone through the process and was nearly ready to leave, that’s what I was told.
“Disorders appearing during “recovery,” included gastrointestinal hyperactivity/acidity (ulcers, gastro-esophageal reflux, diarrhea, etc.) and thrombosis (coronary occlusions, thrombophlebitis with pulmonary embolism/infarction, arterial thrombosis-mesenteric occlusion/cerebral artery strokes) and infection at sites previous dormant during stress (pneumonia, dental and skin abscesses, etc.) In addition, gastro-esophageal reflux is known to lead to aspiration of acidic stomach contents into the lungs, causing “asthma-like” symptoms and sometimes sudden death (e.g. Reggie White of Green Bay Packer fame).”
5grams of extract (based on the generally recognised 15% ibogaine content) is equivalent to 750mg of ibogaine (6=900mg), a very small amount indeed. For a 70kg male = 10,7mg/kg and 12,85 mg/kg respectively. In either case much too low for heroin interruption treatment especially if only 5grams were given.
You have to take into account the other iboga alkaloids too. Generally, the figure I’ve heard is that you can roughly double the ibogaine content to bring them into the picture. Meaning he took the equivalent of roughly 1.5g ibogaine base.
So I find myself reading the coroners conclusions as basically uninformed and highly speculative as the coroner knew nothing of the amounts of ibogaine/extract needed for addiction treatment and perhaps knew nothing about the complications of withdrawal as stated by Dr. Ed (whose contributions to this list I find “wonderful”).
The toxicologist could find no published data on ibogaine in humans, for in Jan 2001 there was only one paper out and it hadn’t yet been recorded in the place where these things are kept. (that takes about 12 months I think). When I pointed out that Dr Mash had written a paper that was published in 2000, Dr Knapp adjourned the inquest such that the toxicologist could consult further. So, he was concerned it just that there was a lack of published data.
You have to remember that the court system is basically adversarial over here. If you don’t hire someone to fight your corner, chances are you lose. Indra could have fought the case but chose not to, a fear position if you ask me, but an understandable one. Their extract got blamed and recorded as cause of death. If ibogaine was being marketed by a large company, they would have contested, most certainly have won. But without someone to cross examine, you lose.
Nick
In this case I think withdrawals of some kind were inevitable and what this report shows about the dangers of ibogaine or the extract itself, as opposed to withdrawing from heroin, is this: nothing. Its quite possibly a big red herring. In fact one could argue that death was due to insufficient ibogaine/extract been given.
Lee
Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
—–Original Message—–
From: Lee Albert [mailto:myeboga@yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: 25 November 2005 16:30
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death:
Nick,
Can you set the record even straighter?
There is some confusion about this death in 2000 due to the extract.
I have heard it reported as:
1. Ate a large meal a few days after treatment, burst a vessel, ruptured the stomach .
and as you state below:
2. Choked on a sandwich somehow dying on his own vomit while left unattended in the toilet.
Hi Lee,
I’ve not heard of the first scenario. It was number 2. I knew the girl who gave the treatment and was at the inquest, both sittings. When the patient began to die paramedics were called and one said that it looked like a stomach burst. This story got propagated about for a while as it was another year until the actual inquest began. The first inquest was adjourned when I pointed out that J had not taken actual ibogaine but rather the Indra iboga extract. Dr Mash was contacted by the pathologist and she confirmed that the blood samples taken show low traces of iboga extract not pure ibogaine. The pathologist’s report put cause of death down to inhalation of vomit, if I recall correctly, but am not 100% on this. The coroner recorded “fatal reaction to t.iboga extract.” Dr Mash was keen that ibogaine itself not be blamed when J had not taken it. A year or so later t.iboga was put on a list of substances due to be controlled in the UK. However the paper never went through, there were 50 or so other herbs on it, and thus iboga is still not scheduled in the UK. (Though supply would likely be an offense).
Are these two sceanarios the same person?
Maybe I need to reread this thread but how exactly does dying from inhaling ones fluids imply that ibogaine/eboga extract is unsafe?
Frankly, if there had been a defense pathologist in court (one defending the iboga extract) I very much doubt that the verdict would have come out the way it did. It’s more that the coroner, Paul Knapp, if I recall, regarded it as his duty to warn the public of any dangerous new substances about (fair enough in a way) and as there was no one there to cross examine the state pathologist he did just that.
Let me know if you need more
Nick
Thanks
Lee
Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Just to set the record straighter, an ibogaine death actually HAS been attributed to vomiting and inhaling associated fluids. JW, Jan 2000 in London, died in this manner after taking 6g of iboga extract to treat long term opiate dependency. Coroner recorded “fatal reaction to t.iboga extract.” He died when left unattended briefly after eating a sandwich some 38 hours after taking the drug.
Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: Matthew Shriver [mailto:matt@itsupport.net]
Sent: 25 November 2005 03:23
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death:
Well having read all of that again I still don’t see where he said “Ibogaine deaths have been attributed to vomiting and inhaling associated fluids”  Maybe it’s all the same to you but in reality you put words into someone else’s mouth.  I don’t even see that idea implied here.  If we are talking about people dying it’s important that we are accurate, misinformation can be as bad as disinformation.  The implication is that death by aspiration could occur in someone undergoing NARCOTIC WITHDRAWAL, not from ibogaine use.
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net]
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 7:58 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death:
Matt, here is a quote:
Edfriedrichs@aol.com wrote:
It is worth noting that Vomiting leading to Aspiration into the Lungs CAN AND DOES CAUSE sudden death (asphyxiation/drowning).  Vomiting is certainly a frequent part of narcotic withdrawal, especially if the stomach is full of food from recent eating.  That is why when someone suffers a convulsive seizure, it is important to prevent vomiting/aspiration and/or obstruction of the air-way by the tongue.  Benzo withdrawal can also cause seizures, sometimes days after stopping valium because valium is “long” acting as a dependency drug.  You can prolong alcohol withdrawal with “too much” benzodiazapine” treatment, because they are a sedative substitute for alcohol.  Those are SOME of the reasons that Withdrawal of any fashion and especially Ibogaine treatments should have a sophisticated helper present thruout, ideally a medically trained one AND no hestitancy to call “911.”  Peace,  Dr. Ed
While looking this up, I found this:
In addition, gastro-esophageal reflux is known to lead to aspiration of acidic stomach contents into the lungs, causing “asthma-like” symptoms and sometimes sudden death (e.g. Reggie White of Green Bay Packer fame).
Seems like he has already answered my idiotic question, I just lost it in the threads. My point was, the threat is not from vomiting, but from reflux. Inhalation CAN and is more likely to occur without the obvious signs of vomiting, a patient can be lying quietly on their back and their stomach just starts draining into their lungs. My intent is to alert caregivers that sudden choking of a benign patient may be indicative of this, and as they will be unable to communicate, (inhaling stomach acid is akin to inhaling a lit propane torch soaked in gasoline) just don’t freak out. Vomiting may come afterwards, after SEVERE gagging, choking and coughing, and vocal chords will be impaired, singed, so to speak, for quite a while. ANYBODY who is “Knocked out” is susceptible to this, not just Ibo patients.
Am I right, Doc?
Geez, I luv you guys, thanx for being here!
Matthew Shriver wrote:
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net]
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 6:59 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death:
What I’m asking is, when you say Ibogaine deaths have been attributed to vomiting and inhaling associated fluids, are you talking about reflux inhalation?
I am pretty sure I never read Dr Ed saying that.
Edfriedrichs@aol.com wrote:
The esophageal sphincter HAS to relax whenever there is vomiting, otherwise the acid and food would stay in the stomach.  Reflux happens easier during reclining sleep, if the esophageal sphincter is weak or permanently ruptured by an “diaphrag-matic hernia” from the abdomen into the chest.   Dr. Ed.
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Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
From: Luke Christoffersen <luke.christoffersen@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Spot the 75 bands in the picture: This is cool!
Date: November 27, 2005 at 3:07:31 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Other ones i think
The Dead Kennedys
The police
Green Day
Deep Purple(?)
House Party(?)
Can’t figure out the 2 guys in suits and guitars!
On 11/26/05, CallieMimosa@aol.com <CallieMimosa@aol.com> wrote:
The Monkeys
Sex Pistols
Queen
Blues Brothers(?)
Lemonheads
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From: “Cheryl” <cherylca@myway.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death – Death in 2000 JW – Alternative Theory – addition
Date: November 27, 2005 at 1:58:21 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Lee I understand that besides tripping with it constantly your main interest in ibogaine is masturbatory you like writing these long winded lists of medical whatever without knowing if any of what your writing is accurate.
Please explain why is it then that the ibogaine association in mexico which has doctors giving the ibogaine and always has, not emt’s, has killed three people so far? Not dissing them they’re honest at least on their web page they say people have died it’s a experimental medication more people may die.
My real question is does any of this make a difference at all, because it looks like the ibogaine underground which has none of these qualifications, treats people of all kinds with all kinds of backgrounds, has a better track record.
— On Sun 11/27, Lee Albert < myeboga@yahoo.co.uk > wrote: From: Lee Albert [mailto: myeboga@yahoo.co.uk] To: ibogaine@mindvox.com Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 12:39:40 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death – Death in 2000 JW – Alternative Theory – addition Hi Nick, There are two q’s going through my mind: 1. Was Hep-C active in JW at the time or was he in remission? 2. What was his drug intake at the time? Sorry to keep pushing this but I think there is a lot of fear around the dangers of ibogaine which is preventing us from looking at the obvious. What I think is also clear is this: A knowledge of the problems that can result from withdrawals is knowledge which a provider should have. Perhaps Dr Ed would be good enough to put a link to a good book on the subject? I notice on the iboga therapy website they have a very thorough and comprehensive screening and treatment program erring on the side of caution and includes a holistic approach to the treatment of addiction. (See: www.pot-tv.net/ram/pottvshowse3558.ram) & www.ibogatherapyhouse.com) They also train their people to EMT level 1. “First Responders (EMT 1) — are trained to provide basic emergency medical care because they tend to be the first persons to arrive at the scene of an incident. Many firefighters, police officers and other emergency workers have this level of training. The EMT-Basic, also known as EMT-1, represents the first component of the emergency medical technician system. An EMT-1 is trained to care for patients at the scene of an accident and while transporting patients by ambulance to the hospital under medical direction. The EMT-1 has the emergency skills to assess a patient’s condition and manage respiratory, cardiac and trauma emergencies.” From reading the training on EMT and paramedics it seems to me that with proper equipment and a trained emergency paramedic at hand with access to a doctor on call, a client would receive a pretty secure medical environment. Here is an excerpt from a training program: “The EMT-Intermediate (EMT-2 and EMT-3) has more advanced training that allows the administration of intravenous fluids, the use of manual defibrillators to give life-saving shocks to a stopped heart, and the application of advanced airway techniques and equipment to assist patients experiencing respiratory emergencies. EMT-Paramedics (EMT-4) provide the most extensive prehospital care. In addition to carrying out the procedures already described, paramedics may administer drugs orally and intravenously, interpret electrocardiograms (EKGs), perform endotracheal intubations, and use monitors and other complex equipment.” From what i have read they are also able to interpret the kinds of heart conditions that have been flagged and to respond appropriately. I would add that it seems to me that rehydration via intravenous drip would seem a good standard if possible. I wonder is there any way Providers could recieve inexpensive EMT level 1 training? Perhaps someone from the Iboga Therapy House could tell us how they manage it and what it costs? LeePreston Peet wrote: this actually does make a lot of sense to me too.the idea that low doses that really are not large enough may leave a patient ill, in withdrwal, and not able to deal with adverse health conditions.Peace and love,Preston”Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”Richard Davenport-Hinesptpeet@nyc.rr.comEditor http://www.drugwar.comEditor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”Cont. High Times mag/.comCont. Editor http://www.disinfo.comColumnist New York WasteEtc.—– Original Message —– From: Lee AlbertTo: ibogaine@mindvox.comSent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 8:19 AMSubject: RE: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death – Death in 2000 JW – Alternative Theory – additionSomething which maybe we can consider with this death is this:In administering extract or HCl a dose which is insufficient or low may precipitate adverse medical conditions due to the onset of withdrawals and clients need to be carefully supervised in the days following treatment to ensure the risk of such events has passed.LeeLee Albert wrote:Nick,Thanks mucho. The extra info you have given here is great. Many thanks.Last night thinking on this:The amount of extract for methadone withdrawal is 11 grams with Sara and 9 grams with Marc Emery (who is very conservative in his approach but for good reason) per Howards:Forms & Dose Regimenswww.ibogaine.desk.nl/ibogaine_forms_dose_regimen.pptFor Heroin withdrawal the amount Sara states is 7grams of extract.According to: http://userpages.umbc.edu/~jfreed1/Ibogaine.htmlThe third recorded fatality occurred in 2000, in the U.K. The patient was a 38 year old male, and suffered from hepatitis C. He was administered a total of approximately 5 grams of a total iboga extract standardised to 15% ibogaine. This was a most peculiar case, as the fatality did not occur until after the effects of ibogaine had subsided, 38 hours after initial administration. Police toxicologist Dr. John Taylor told testified that the level of ibogaine in the dead man’s blood was “well below the normal toxic dose” (Kerr, 2001). According to writer Nick Sandberg (2002), the official inquest named the primary cause of death as asphyxiation due to vomit clogging airways, with liver failure as a secondary cause.What is interesting is that this states 5grams and indeed most of the other reports I have seen also state 5 grams, so I am not sure if you are 100% on the amount?Anyway, I assume JW was being treated for Heroin or was he on Methadone maintenance at the time?In either case, the amount he took is below what would normally be given and I am left with the thought that death may have been due to insufficient iboga extract been given resulting in an onset of late withdrawls agitated in part by choking on a sandwich. This coupled with any other health issues JW may have had such as Hep C. According to Dr Ed:”Disorders appearing during “recovery,” included gastrointestinal hyperactivity/acidity (ulcers, gastro-esophageal reflux, diarrhea, etc.) and thrombosis (coronary occlusions, thrombophlebitis with pulmonary embolism/infarction, arterial thrombosis-mesenteric occlusion/cerebral artery strokes) and infection at sites previous dormant during stress (pneumonia, dental and skin abscesses, etc.) In addition, gastro-esophageal reflux is known to lead to aspiration of acidic stomach contents into the lungs, causing “asthma-like” symptoms and sometimes sudden death (e.g. Reggie White of Green Bay Packer fame).”5grams of extract (based on the generally recognised 15% ibogaine content) is equivalent to 750mg of ibogaine (6=900mg), a very small amount indeed. For a 70kg male = 10,7mg/kg and 12,85 mg/kg respectively. In either case much too low for heroin interruption treatment especially if only 5grams were given.So I find myself reading the coroners conclusions as basically uninformed and highly speculative as the coroner knew nothing of the amounts of ibogaine/extract needed for addiction treatment and perhaps knew nothing about the complications of withdrawal as stated by Dr. Ed (whose contributions to this list I find “wonderful”).In this case I think withdrawals of some kind were inevitable and what this report shows about the dangers of ibogaine or the extract itself, as opposed to withdrawing from heroin, is this: nothing. Its quite possibly a big red herring. In fact one could argue that death was due to insufficient ibogaine/extract been given.LeeNick Sandberg wrote:—–Original Message—–From: Lee Albert [mailto:myeboga@yahoo.co.uk]Sent: 25 November 2005 16:30To: ibogaine@mindvox.comSubject: RE: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death:Nick,Can you set the record even straighter?There is some confusion about this death in 2000 due to the extract.I have heard it reported as:1. Ate a large meal a few days after treatment, burst a vessel, ruptured the stomach .and as you state below:2. Choked on a sandwich somehow dying on his own vomit while left unattended in the toilet.Hi Lee,I’ve not heard of the first scenario. It was number 2. I knew the girl who gave the treatment and was at the inquest, both sittings. When the patient began to die paramedics were called and one said that it looked like a stomach burst. This story got propagated about for a while as it was another year until the actual inquest began. The first inquest was adjourned when I pointed out that J had not taken actual ibogaine but rather the Indra iboga extract. Dr Mash was contacted by the pathologist and she confirmed that the blood samples taken show low traces of iboga extract not pure ibogaine. The pathologist’s report put cause of death down to inhalation of vomit, if I recall correctly, but am not 100% on this. The coroner recorded “fatal reaction to t.iboga extract.” Dr Mash was keen that ibogaine itself not be blamed when J had not taken it. A year or so later t.iboga was put on a list of substances due to be controlled in the UK. However the paper never went through, there were 50 or so other herbs on it, and thus iboga is still not scheduled in the UK. (Though supply would likely be an offense).Are these two sceanarios the same person?Maybe I need to reread this thread but how exactly does dying from inhaling ones fluids imply that ibogaine/eboga extract is unsafe?Frankly, if there had been a defense pathologist in court (one defending the iboga extract) I very much doubt that the verdict would have come out the way it did. It’s more that the coroner, Paul Knapp, if I recall, regarded it as his duty to warn the public of any dangerous new substances about (fair enough in a way) and as there was no one there to cross examine the state pathologist he did just that.Let me know if you need moreNickThanksLeeNick Sandberg wrote:Just to set the record straighter, an ibogaine death actually HAS been attributed to vomiting and inhaling associated fluids. JW, Jan 2000 in London, died in this manner after taking 6g of iboga extract to treat long term opiate dependency. Coroner recorded “fatal reaction to t.iboga extract.” He died when left unattended briefly after eating a sandwich some 38 hours after taking the drug.Nick—–Original Message—–From: Matthew Shriver [mailto:matt@itsupport.net]Sent: 25 November 2005 03:23To: ibogaine@mindvox.comSubject: RE: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death:Well having read all of that again I still don’t see where he said “Ibogaine deaths have been attributed to vomiting and inhaling associated fluids” Maybe it’s all the same to you but in reality you put words into someone else’s mouth. I don’t even see that idea implied here. If we are talking about people dying it’s important that we are accurate, misinformation can be as bad as disinformation. The implication is that death by aspiration could occur in someone undergoing NARCOTIC WITHDRAWAL, not from ibogaine use.From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net]Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 7:58 PMTo: ibogaine@mindvox.comSubject: Re: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death:Matt, here is a quote:Edfriedrichs@aol.com wrote:It is worth noting that Vomiting leading to Aspiration into the Lungs CAN AND DOES CAUSE sudden death (asphyxiation/drowning). Vomiting is certainly a frequent part of narcotic withdrawal, especially if the stomach is full of food from recent eating. That is why when someone suffers a convulsive seizure, it is important to prevent vomiting/aspiration and/or obstruction of the air-way by the tongue. Benzo withdrawal can also cause seizures, sometimes days after stopping valium because valium is “long” acting as a dependency drug. You can prolong alcohol withdrawal with “too much” benzodiazapine” treatment, because they are a sedative substitute for alcohol. Those are SOME of the reasons that Withdrawal of any fashion and especially Ibogaine treatments should have a sophisticated helper present thruout, ideally a medically trained one AND no hestitancy to call “911.” Peace, Dr. EdWhile looking this up, I found this:In addition, gastro-esophageal reflux is known to lead to aspiration of acidic stomach contents into the lungs, causing “asthma-like” symptoms and sometimes sudden death (e.g. Reggie White of Green Bay Packer fame).Seems like he has already answered my idiotic question, I just lost it in the threads. My point was, the threat is not from vomiting, but from reflux. Inhalation CAN and is more likely to occur without the obvious signs of vomiting, a patient can be lying quietly on their back and their stomach just starts draining into their lungs. My intent is to alert caregivers that sudden choking of a benign patient may be indicative of this, and as they will be unable to communicate, (inhaling stomach acid is akin to inhaling a lit propane torch soaked in gasoline) just don’t freak out. Vomiting may come afterwards, after SEVERE gagging, choking and coughing, and vocal chords will be impaired, singed, so to speak, for quite a while. ANYBODY who is “Knocked out” is susceptible to this, not just Ibo patients.Am I right, Doc?Geez, I luv you guys, thanx for being here!Matthew Shriver wrote:From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net]Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 6:59 PMTo: ibogaine@mindvox.comSubject: Re: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death:What I’m asking is, when you say Ibogaine deaths have been attributed to vomiting and inhaling associated fluids, are you talking about reflux inhalation?I am pretty sure I never read Dr Ed saying that.Edfriedrichs@aol.com wrote:The esophageal sphincter HAS to relax whenever there is vomiting, otherwise the acid and food would stay in the stomach. Reflux happens easier during reclining sleep, if the esophageal sphincter is weak or permanently ruptured by an “diaphrag-matic hernia” from the abdomen into the chest. Dr. Ed./]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[//]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html. /]=———————————————————————=[\[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]\]=———————————————————————=[/ Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html. My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding.
Make My Way your home on the Web – http://www.myway.com
From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Secret Service, U.S. intel say Bush uses cocaine, prozac, alcohol
Date: November 27, 2005 at 1:12:54 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Preston,
Glad to hear you’re doing well =) I wouldn’t beat yourself up about the dilaudid… i mean you obviously have a legitimate medical reason for using it from time to time. I’d only start to worry if you find yourself using it for reasons other than that legitimate medical reason…
Anyhow, this article you posted reminded me a lot of some passages from the Illuminatus! trilogy…
“Don’t say wop,” the President shouted back. “How many times do I have to tell you? Don’t say wop or kike or any of those words anymore.” He spoke with some asperity, since he lived daily with the dread that someday the secret tapes he kept of all Oval Room transactions would be released to the public. He had long ago vowed that if that day ever came, the tapes would not be full of “(expletive deleted)” or “(characterization deleted).” He was harassed, but still he spoke with authority. He was, in fact, characteristic of the best type of dominant male in the world at this time. He was fifty-five years old, tough, shrewd, unburdened by the complicated ethical ambiguities which puzzle intellectuals, and had long ago decided that the world was a mean son-of-a-bitch in which only the most cunning and ruthless can survive. He was also as kind as was possible for one holding that ultra-Darwinian philosophy; and he genuinely loved children and dogs, unless they were on the site of something that had to be bombed in the National Interest. He still retained some sense of humor, despite the burdens of his almost godly office, and, although he had been impotent with his wife for nearly ten years now, he generally achieved orgasm in the mouth of a skilled prostitute within 1.5 minutes. He took amphetamine pep pills to keep going on his grueling twenty-hour day, with the result that his vision of the world was somewhat skewed in a paranoid direction, and he took tranquilizers to keep from worrying too much, with the result that his detachment sometimes bordered on the schizophrenic; but most of the time his innate shrewdness gave him a fingernail grip on reality. In short, he was much like the rulers of Russia and China.
……
In Moscow, where it was ten the next morning, the Premier called a conference and said crisply, “That character in Washington is a mental lunatic, and he means it. Get our men out of Fernando Poo right away, then find out who authorized sending them in there in the first place and transfer him to be supervisor of a hydroelectric works in Outer Mongolia.”
“We don’t have any men in Fernando Poo,” a commissar said mournfully. ‘The Americans are imagining things again.”
“Well, how the hell can we withdraw men if we don’t have them there in the first place?” the Premier demanded.
“I don’t know. We’ve got twenty-four hours to figure that out, or-” the commissar quoted an old Russian proverb which means, roughly, that when the polar bear excrement interferes with the fan belts, the machinery overheats.
“Suppose we just announce that our troops are coming out?” another commissar suggested. “They can’t say we’re lying if they don’t find any of our troops there afterward.”
“No, they never believe anything we say. They want to be shown,” the premier said thoughtfully. “We’ll have to infiltrate some troops surreptitiously and then withdraw them with a lot of fanfare and publicity. That should do it.”
“I’m afraid it won’t end the problem,” another pommissar said funereally. “Our intelligence indicates that there are Chinese troops there. Unless Peking backs down, we’re going to be caught in the middle when the bombs start flying and-” he quoted a proverb about the man in the intersection when two manure trucks collide.
“Damn,” the Premier said. “What the blue blazes do the Chinese want with Fernando Poo?”
He was harassed, but still he spoke with authority. He was, in fact, characteristic of the best type of dominant male in the world at this time. He was fifty-five years old, tough, shrewd, unburdened by the complicated ethical ambiguities which puzzle intellectuals, and had long ago decided that the world was a mean son-of-a-bitch in which only the most cunning and ruthless can survive. He was also as kind as was possible for one holding that ultra-Darwinian philosophy; and he genuinely loved children and dogs, unless they were on the site of something that had to be bombed in the National Interest. He still retained some sense of humor, despite the burdens of his almost godly office, and although he had been impotent with his wife for nearly ten years now, he generally achieved orgasm in the mouth of a skilled prostitute within 1.5 minutes. He took amphetamine pep pills to keep going on his grueling twenty-hour day, with the result that his vision of the world was somewhat skewed in a paranoid direction, and he took tranquilizers to keep from worrying too much, with the result that his detachment sometimes bordered on schizophrenia; but most of the time his innate shrewdness gave him a fingernail grip on reality. In short, he was much like the rulers of America and China.
…..
“We’ll just get our troops out of Fernando Poo,” the Chairman of the Chinese Communist party said on April 1. “A place that size isn’t worth world war.”
“But we don’t have any troops there,” an aide told him, “it’s the Russians who do.”
“Oh?” the Chairman quoted a proverb to the effect that there was urine in the rosewater. “I wonder what the hell the Russians want with Fernando Poo?” he added thoughtfully.
He was harassed, but still he spoke with authority. He was, in fact, characteristic of the best type of dominant male in the world at this time. He was fifty-five years old, tough, shrewd, unburdened by the complicated ethical ambiguities which puzzle intellectuals, and had long ago decided that the world was a mean son-of-a-bitch in which only the most cunning and ruthless can survive. He was also as kind as was possible for one holding that ultra-Darwinian philosophy; and he genuinely loved children and dogs, unless they were on the site of something that had to be bombed in the National Interest. He still retained some sense of humor, despite the burdens of his almost godly office, and, although he had been impotent with his wife for nearly ten years now, he generally achieved orgasm in the mouth of a skilled prostitute within 1.5 minutes. He took amphetamine pep pills to keep going on his grueling twenty-hour day, with the result that his vision of the world was somewhat skewed in a paranoid direction, and he took tranquilizers to keep from worrying too much, with the result that his detachment sometimes bordered on the schizophrenic; but most of the time his innate shrewdness gave him a fingernail grip on reality. In short, he was much like the rulers of America and Russia.
HI all and happy Sunday morning.
I ran into a very old friend and fellow ibogaine list member, who noted more than once how happy he was to see me doing (or looking, I wasn’t always sure) so well compared to how I have at time been doing, which was a nice thing to hear (more than once, so it coulda also been the alcohol he was drinking- still, I prefer to put it down to his honest observations), as it only validate my decision and the carrying out of said decision.
Which btw, I have to say I’m doing remarkably well with (KNOCK LOUDLY UPON WOOD, THREE TIMES- personal twist on superstious bologna, so please humor me) my severe, strict adherance to my own personal teeny level of medical pain relief, trying to see if I can manage to do it on my own, but I have found there have been more than once when I simply had to take a couple dilaudid (orally) to help nail the swelling, heaving, growing pain. Otherwise, I’m for the moment doing well and am trying to give myself credit for doing so. I think it’s going to take a little while for it to become obvious to certain other sthat I mean what I’ve said and really am doing this, among other behavioral and habit changes that have nothing to do with drugs. If I get the time to show it instead of saying it (which I’m not doing except here in print, which is why I noted I’m trying to give myself credit because I can’t do it anywhere else- these are what I use as my groups instead of classic -A type grounps, as I told my friend last night) no problem I believe.
Anyway, on with the article about the President using hard drugs both legal and non.
Ohhhhh, if only this story is true, it’s a beaut. But….
Personally I’m never sure just how to take Tom Flocco’s information and reporting,
as he seems to pretty far in accusatory language but doesn’t seem to always
source his info, often who are “un-named,” or “anonymous,”  which makes it difficult to follow up on the story, (although out of the rest of the articles total reliance on unnamed sources all over the place, the name of the doctor supposedly writing the prescriptions for Ritilan and Prozac for Bush is named, a Col. Richard J. Tubb, the White House physician, so feel free to follow this up if you have the time) such as this juicy but gossipy
piece on George W. Bush not only still drinking, but taking Prozac as well as
doing cocaine, these days as President of the United States, not years ago as
a frat boy or US Navy pilot. If this story is true that is.
http://www.tomflocco.com/fs/SecretServIntelSay.htm
Tom Flocco.com
http://tomflocco.com/
Secret Service, U.S. intel say Bush uses cocaine, prozac, alcohol
Date: Thursday, November 17
Topic: —
“It is not for kings, O Lemuel-not for kings to drink wine, not for rulers to crave beer, lest they drink and forget what the law decrees, and deprive all the oppressed of their rights.” Proverbs 31: 4-5
Secret Service, U.S. intel say Bush uses cocaine, Prozac, alcohol
Federal agents question out-of-control White House operating “under the influence” while continuing historical pattern of untested drug usage at highest levels places presidents above the law, jeopardizing the safety of all Americans
by Tom Flocco
Washington-November 17, 2005-TomFlocco.com-Secret Service members attached to White House domestic security, FBI and CIA agents, and written national security field reports all confirm that President Bush has been using drugs which could be affecting his performance as the nation’s war-time commander-in-chief.
Multiple federal agents having direct knowledge and access to Bush’s medical records say the President has switched from using Ritalin to taking Prozac while also succumbing to periodic alcoholic binges which have led to tirades and explosive personal conduct among White House aides, absent required random drug testing of all public employees and elected officials.
Federal law enforcement agents have at different times witnessed President Bush doing lines of cocaine in the early morning hours at the White House and drinking straight shots of whiskey in the evening hours on other occasions, according to U.S. intelligence sources who confirm multiple stories appearing in the tabloid press which say the First Lady is assigned to “keep an eye on him.”
Bush’s alleged conduct raises serious questions as to what effect the chemicals are having on his oval office decision-making, and why Democrats and Republicans facing coming voter backlash-while undoubtedly having heard the whispers-are failing to call for the release of Bush’s medical records for bipartisan congressional scrutiny.
Legislators have also failed to ask Bush to submit to drug-testing when they required President Clinton to submit to similar tests to confirm a match of his DNA with spots found on Monica Lewinsky’s blue dress-a matter of far less consequence to U.S. national security than the effects of Mr. Bush’s alleged ongoing chemical dependency.
Having observed the President smirk and laugh when discussing the war or other serious matters of state at press conferences, the White House press corps has thus far refused to muster the courage to ask whether Bush will have himself tested for drugs or whether he considers himself above the law compared to all other federal employees.
U.S. intelligence sources having direct contact with White House domestic security told TomFlocco.com that multiple federal agents would be willing to testify before a grand jury if subpoenaed regarding what they have seen and heard pertaining to Mr. Bush’s drug and alcohol usage.
Secret Service and intelligence officials are reportedly concerned about public safety while Mr. Bush has access to nuclear weapons without being subject to random drug testing to determine how the addictions are affecting his ability to govern.
Bush’s doses of Ritalin and Prozac are reportedly administered by Col. Richard J. Tubb, the White House physician; and medical journals say they can impair the President’s mental faculties and decrease both his physical capabilities and his ability to respond to a crisis.
Medical reports also say that mixing cocaine with alcohol produces a substance in the blood called “cocaethylene” which can be more toxic to the body than the cocaine itself.
Dr. Justin Frank, a Washington D.C. psychiatrist and author of Bush On The Couch-Inside The Mind Of The President, told The National Enquirer: “I do think that Bush is drinking again. Alcoholics who are not in any program, like the President, have a hard time when stress gets to be great.”
snip-
Peace and love,
Preston Peet
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Secret Service, U.S. intel say Bush uses cocaine, prozac, alcohol
Date: November 27, 2005 at 9:09:46 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
HI all and happy Sunday morning.
I ran into a very old friend and fellow ibogaine list member, who noted more than once how happy he was to see me doing (or looking, I wasn’t always sure) so well compared to how I have at time been doing, which was a nice thing to hear (more than once, so it coulda also been the alcohol he was drinking- still, I prefer to put it down to his honest observations), as it only validate my decision and the carrying out of said decision.
Which btw, I have to say I’m doing remarkably well with (KNOCK LOUDLY UPON WOOD, THREE TIMES- personal twist on superstious bologna, so please humor me) my severe, strict adherance to my own personal teeny level of medical pain relief, trying to see if I can manage to do it on my own, but I have found there have been more than once when I simply had to take a couple dilaudid (orally) to help nail the swelling, heaving, growing pain. Otherwise, I’m for the moment doing well and am trying to give myself credit for doing so. I think it’s going to take a little while for it to become obvious to certain other sthat I mean what I’ve said and really am doing this, among other behavioral and habit changes that have nothing to do with drugs. If I get the time to show it instead of saying it (which I’m not doing except here in print, which is why I noted I’m trying to give myself credit because I can’t do it anywhere else- these are what I use as my groups instead of classic -A type grounps, as I told my friend last night) no problem I believe.
Anyway, on with the article about the President using hard drugs both legal and non.
Ohhhhh, if only this story is true, it’s a beaut. But….
Personally I’m never sure just how to take Tom Flocco’s information and reporting,
as he seems to pretty far in accusatory language but doesn’t seem to always
source his info, often who are “un-named,” or “anonymous,”  which makes it difficult to follow up on the story, (although out of the rest of the articles total reliance on unnamed sources all over the place, the name of the doctor supposedly writing the prescriptions for Ritilan and Prozac for Bush is named, a Col. Richard J. Tubb, the White House physician, so feel free to follow this up if you have the time) such as this juicy but gossipy
piece on George W. Bush not only still drinking, but taking Prozac as well as
doing cocaine, these days as President of the United States, not years ago as
a frat boy or US Navy pilot. If this story is true that is.
http://www.tomflocco.com/fs/SecretServIntelSay.htm
Tom Flocco.com
http://tomflocco.com/
Secret Service, U.S. intel say Bush uses cocaine, prozac, alcohol
Date: Thursday, November 17
Topic: —
“It is not for kings, O Lemuel-not for kings to drink wine, not for rulers to crave beer, lest they drink and forget what the law decrees, and deprive all the oppressed of their rights.” Proverbs 31: 4-5
Secret Service, U.S. intel say Bush uses cocaine, Prozac, alcohol
Federal agents question out-of-control White House operating “under the influence” while continuing historical pattern of untested drug usage at highest levels places presidents above the law, jeopardizing the safety of all Americans
by Tom Flocco
Washington-November 17, 2005-TomFlocco.com-Secret Service members attached to White House domestic security, FBI and CIA agents, and written national security field reports all confirm that President Bush has been using drugs which could be affecting his performance as the nation’s war-time commander-in-chief.
Multiple federal agents having direct knowledge and access to Bush’s medical records say the President has switched from using Ritalin to taking Prozac while also succumbing to periodic alcoholic binges which have led to tirades and explosive personal conduct among White House aides, absent required random drug testing of all public employees and elected officials.
Federal law enforcement agents have at different times witnessed President Bush doing lines of cocaine in the early morning hours at the White House and drinking straight shots of whiskey in the evening hours on other occasions, according to U.S. intelligence sources who confirm multiple stories appearing in the tabloid press which say the First Lady is assigned to “keep an eye on him.”
Bush’s alleged conduct raises serious questions as to what effect the chemicals are having on his oval office decision-making, and why Democrats and Republicans facing coming voter backlash-while undoubtedly having heard the whispers-are failing to call for the release of Bush’s medical records for bipartisan congressional scrutiny.
Legislators have also failed to ask Bush to submit to drug-testing when they required President Clinton to submit to similar tests to confirm a match of his DNA with spots found on Monica Lewinsky’s blue dress-a matter of far less consequence to U.S. national security than the effects of Mr. Bush’s alleged ongoing chemical dependency.
Having observed the President smirk and laugh when discussing the war or other serious matters of state at press conferences, the White House press corps has thus far refused to muster the courage to ask whether Bush will have himself tested for drugs or whether he considers himself above the law compared to all other federal employees.
U.S. intelligence sources having direct contact with White House domestic security told TomFlocco.com that multiple federal agents would be willing to testify before a grand jury if subpoenaed regarding what they have seen and heard pertaining to Mr. Bush’s drug and alcohol usage.
Secret Service and intelligence officials are reportedly concerned about public safety while Mr. Bush has access to nuclear weapons without being subject to random drug testing to determine how the addictions are affecting his ability to govern.
Bush’s doses of Ritalin and Prozac are reportedly administered by Col. Richard J. Tubb, the White House physician; and medical journals say they can impair the President’s mental faculties and decrease both his physical capabilities and his ability to respond to a crisis.
Medical reports also say that mixing cocaine with alcohol produces a substance in the blood called “cocaethylene” which can be more toxic to the body than the cocaine itself.
Dr. Justin Frank, a Washington D.C. psychiatrist and author of Bush On The Couch-Inside The Mind Of The President, told The National Enquirer: “I do think that Bush is drinking again. Alcoholics who are not in any program, like the President, have a hard time when stress gets to be great.”
snip-
Peace and love,
Preston Peet
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Query?
Date: November 27, 2005 at 9:03:29 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Come again!?  Dr. Ed
From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] urgent message from the bwiti gang
Date: November 27, 2005 at 8:11:58 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hello beauitfull people
i just came back from anothr journey to the bwitilend…..what  a trip!!!!!!!…..
check this out
In the beginigng i was already in a vision but thinking i was going about my bussiness in normal time and i kept complaininng how the ibogaine isnt working so i said to someone standing beside me well i just close my eyes to see if anything began only to realize im opining my eyes in real time and that the visions were right in front of me
and the bwitit did give me this message to pass along so feel free to hand it out to anyone u wish
UNITY
and they also said that they have over 1kg of iboga hcl….all i could say is why… hcl?
crazy bwitist
with love
matt
Send junk mail straight into your Recycle Bin with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death – Death in 2000 JW – Alternative Theory – addition
Date: November 27, 2005 at 7:39:40 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Nick,
There are two q’s going through my mind:
1. Was Hep-C active in JW at the time or was he in remission?
2. What was his drug intake at the time?
Sorry to keep pushing this but I think there is a lot of fear around the dangers of ibogaine which is preventing us from looking at the obvious.
What I think is also clear is this: A knowledge of the problems that can result from withdrawals is knowledge which a provider should have. Perhaps Dr Ed would be good enough to put a link to a good book on the subject?
I notice on the iboga therapy website they have a very thorough and comprehensive screening and treatment program erring on the side of caution and includes a holistic approach to the treatment of addiction.
(See: www.pot-tv.net/ram/pottvshowse3558.ram) &
www.ibogatherapyhouse.com)
They also train their people to EMT level 1.
“First Responders (EMT 1) — are trained to provide basic emergency medical care because they tend to be the first persons to arrive at the scene of an incident. Many firefighters, police officers and other emergency workers have this level of training. The EMT-Basic, also known as EMT-1, represents the first component of the emergency medical technician system. An EMT-1 is trained to care for patients at the scene of an accident and while transporting patients by ambulance to the hospital under medical direction. The EMT-1 has the emergency skills to assess a patient’s condition and manage respiratory, cardiac and trauma emergencies.”
From reading the training on EMT and paramedics it seems to me that with proper equipment and a trained emergency paramedic at hand with access to a doctor on call, a client would receive a pretty secure medical environment.
Here is an excerpt from a training program:
“The EMT-Intermediate (EMT-2 and EMT-3) has more advanced training that allows the administration of intravenous fluids, the use of manual defibrillators to give life-saving shocks to a stopped heart, and the application of advanced airway techniques and equipment to assist patients experiencing respiratory emergencies. EMT-Paramedics (EMT-4) provide the most extensive prehospital care. In addition to carrying out the procedures already described, paramedics may administer drugs orally and intravenously, interpret electrocardiograms (EKGs), perform endotracheal intubations, and use monitors and other complex equipment.”
From what i have read they are also able to interpret the kinds of heart conditions that have been flagged and to respond appropriately.
I would add that it seems to me that rehydration via intravenous drip would seem a good standard if possible.
I wonder is there any way Providers could recieve inexpensive EMT level 1 training? Perhaps someone from the Iboga Therapy House could tell us how they manage it and what it costs?
Lee
Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
this actually does make a lot of sense to me too.
the idea that low doses that really are not large enough may leave a patient
ill, in withdrwal, and not able to deal with adverse health conditions.
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 8:19 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death – Death in 2000 JW – Alternative
Theory – addition
Something which maybe we can consider with this death is this:
In administering extract or HCl a dose which is insufficient or low may
precipitate adverse medical conditions due to the onset of withdrawals and
clients need to be carefully supervised in the days following treatment to
ensure the risk of such events has passed.
Lee
Lee Albert wrote:
Nick,
Thanks mucho. The extra info you have given here is great. Many thanks.
Last night thinking on this:
The amount of extract for methadone withdrawal is 11 grams with Sara and 9
grams with Marc Emery (who is very conservative in his approach but for good
reason) per Howards:
Forms & Dose Regimens
www.ibogaine.desk.nl/ibogaine_forms_dose_regimen.ppt
For Heroin withdrawal the amount Sara states is 7grams of extract.
According to: http://userpages.umbc.edu/~jfreed1/Ibogaine.html
The third recorded fatality occurred in 2000, in the U.K. The patient was a
38 year old male, and suffered from hepatitis C. He was administered a total
of approximately 5 grams of a total iboga extract standardised to 15%
ibogaine. This was a most peculiar case, as the fatality did not occur until
after the effects of ibogaine had subsided, 38 hours after initial
administration. Police toxicologist Dr. John Taylor told testified that the
level of ibogaine in the dead man’s blood was “well below the normal toxic
dose” (Kerr, 2001). According to writer Nick Sandberg (2002), the official
inquest named the primary cause of death as asphyxiation due to vomit
clogging airways, with liver failure as a secondary cause.
What is interesting is that this states 5grams and indeed most of the other
reports I have seen also state 5 grams, so I am not sure if you are 100% on
the amount?
Anyway, I assume JW was being treated for Heroin or was he on Methadone
maintenance at the time?
In either case, the amount he took is below what would normally be given and
I am left with the thought that death may have been due to insufficient
iboga extract been given resulting in an onset of late withdrawls agitated
in part by choking on a sandwich. This coupled with any other health issues
JW may have had such as Hep C. According to Dr Ed:
“Disorders appearing during “recovery,” included gastrointestinal
hyperactivity/acidity (ulcers, gastro-esophageal reflux, diarrhea, etc.) and
thrombosis (coronary occlusions, thrombophlebitis with pulmonary
embolism/infarction, arterial thrombosis-mesenteric occlusion/cerebral
artery strokes) and infection at sites previous dormant during stress
(pneumonia, dental and skin abscesses, etc.) In addition, gastro-esophageal
reflux is known to lead to aspiration of acidic stomach contents into the
lungs, causing “asthma-like” symptoms and sometimes sudden death (e.g.
Reggie White of Green Bay Packer fame).”
5grams of extract (based on the generally recognised 15% ibogaine content)
is equivalent to 750mg of ibogaine (6=900mg), a very small amount indeed.
For a 70kg male = 10,7mg/kg and 12,85 mg/kg respectively. In either case
much too low for heroin interruption treatment especially if only 5grams
were given.
So I find myself reading the coroners conclusions as basically uninformed
and highly speculative as the coroner knew nothing of the amounts of
ibogaine/extract needed for addiction treatment and perhaps knew nothing
about the complications of withdrawal as stated by Dr. Ed (whose
contributions to this list I find “wonderful”).
In this case I think withdrawals of some kind were inevitable and what this
report shows about the dangers of ibogaine or the extract itself, as opposed
to withdrawing from heroin, is this: nothing. Its quite possibly a big red
herring. In fact one could argue that death was due to insufficient
ibogaine/extract been given.
Lee
Nick Sandberg wrote:
—–Original Message—–
From: Lee Albert [mailto:myeboga@yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: 25 November 2005 16:30
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death:
Nick,
Can you set the record even straighter?
There is some confusion about this death in 2000 due to the extract.
I have heard it reported as:
1. Ate a large meal a few days after treatment, burst a vessel, ruptured the
stomach .
and as you state below:
2. Choked on a sandwich somehow dying on his own vomit while left unattended
in the toilet.
Hi Lee,
I’ve not heard of the first scenario. It was number 2. I knew the girl who
gave the treatment and was at the inquest, both sittings. When the patient
began to die paramedics were called and one said that it looked like a
stomach burst. This story got propagated about for a while as it was another
year until the actual inquest began. The first inquest was adjourned when I
pointed out that J had not taken actual ibogaine but rather the Indra iboga
extract. Dr Mash was contacted by the pathologist and she confirmed that the
blood samples taken show low traces of iboga extract not pure ibogaine. The
pathologist’s report put cause of death down to inhalation of vomit, if I
recall correctly, but am not 100% on this. The coroner recorded “fatal
reaction to t.iboga extract.” Dr Mash was keen that ibogaine itself not be
blamed when J had not taken it. A year or so later t.iboga was put on a list
of substances due to be controlled in the UK. However the paper never went
through, there were 50 or so other herbs on it, and thus iboga is still not
scheduled in the UK. (Though supply would likely be an offense).
Are these two sceanarios the same person?
Maybe I need to reread this thread but how exactly does dying from inhaling
ones fluids imply that ibogaine/eboga extract is unsafe?
Frankly, if there had been a defense pathologist in court (one defending the
iboga extract) I very much doubt that the verdict would have come out the
way it did. It’s more that the coroner, Paul Knapp, if I recall, regarded it
as his duty to warn the public of any dangerous new substances about (fair
enough in a way) and as there was no one there to cross examine the state
pathologist he did just that.
Let me know if you need more
Nick
Thanks
Lee
Nick Sandberg wrote:
Just to set the record straighter, an ibogaine death actually HAS been
attributed to vomiting and inhaling associated fluids. JW, Jan 2000 in
London, died in this manner after taking 6g of iboga extract to treat long
term opiate dependency. Coroner recorded “fatal reaction to t.iboga
extract.” He died when left unattended briefly after eating a sandwich some
38 hours after taking the drug.
Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: Matthew Shriver [mailto:matt@itsupport.net]
Sent: 25 November 2005 03:23
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death:
Well having read all of that again I still don’t see where he said “Ibogaine
deaths have been attributed to vomiting and inhaling associated fluids”
Maybe it’s all the same to you but in reality you put words into someone
else’s mouth. I don’t even see that idea implied here. If we are talking
about people dying it’s important that we are accurate, misinformation can
be as bad as disinformation. The implication is that death by aspiration
could occur in someone undergoing NARCOTIC WITHDRAWAL, not from ibogaine
use.
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net]
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 7:58 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death:
Matt, here is a quote:
Edfriedrichs@aol.com wrote:
It is worth noting that Vomiting leading to Aspiration into the Lungs CAN
AND DOES CAUSE sudden death (asphyxiation/drowning). Vomiting is certainly
a frequent part of narcotic withdrawal, especially if the stomach is full of
food from recent eating. That is why when someone suffers a convulsive
seizure, it is important to prevent vomiting/aspiration and/or obstruction
of the air-way by the tongue. Benzo withdrawal can also cause seizures,
sometimes days after stopping valium because valium is “long” acting as a
dependency drug. You can prolong alcohol withdrawal with “too much”
benzodiazapine” treatment, because they are a sedative substitute for
alcohol. Those are SOME of the reasons that Withdrawal of any fashion and
especially Ibogaine treatments should have a sophisticated helper present
thruout, ideally a medically trained one AND no hestitancy to call “911.”
Peace, Dr. Ed
While looking this up, I found this:
In addition, gastro-esophageal reflux is known to lead to aspiration of
acidic stomach contents into the lungs, causing “asthma-like” symptoms and
sometimes sudden death (e.g. Reggie White of Green Bay Packer fame).
Seems like he has already answered my idiotic question, I just lost it in
the threads. My point was, the threat is not from vomiting, but from reflux.
Inhalation CAN and is more likely to occur without the obvious signs of
vomiting, a patient can be lying quietly on their back and their stomach
just starts draining into their lungs. My intent is to alert caregivers that
sudden choking of a benign patient may be indicative of this, and as they
will be unable to communicate, (inhaling stomach acid is akin to inhaling a
lit propane torch soaked in gasoline) just don’t freak out. Vomiting may
come afterwards, after SEVERE gagging, choking and coughing, and vocal
chords will be impaired, singed, so to speak, for quite a while. ANYBODY who
is “Knocked out” is susceptible to this, not just Ibo patients.
Am I right, Doc?
Geez, I luv you guys, thanx for being here!
Matthew Shriver wrote:
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net]
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 6:59 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death:
What I’m asking is, when you say Ibogaine deaths have been attributed to
vomiting and inhaling associated fluids, are you talking about reflux
inhalation?
I am pretty sure I never read Dr Ed saying that.
Edfriedrichs@aol.com wrote:
The esophageal sphincter HAS to relax whenever there is vomiting, otherwise
the acid and food would stay in the stomach. Reflux happens easier during
reclining sleep, if the esophageal sphincter is weak or permanently ruptured
by an “diaphrag-matic hernia” from the abdomen into the chest. Dr. Ed.
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six
year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those
already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six
year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those
already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six
year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those
already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
From: “pascall roland” <pascal-roland@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] would ibogaine help?
Date: November 27, 2005 at 6:30:20 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi,
referring to HSLotsof’s mail containing a Houston Chronicle artice abt. J.Gibson, I wonder what’s the link between the mail’s title ..would ibogaine help? and this article?
Or does it mean Ibogaine could help J.Gibson?
Thanks for clarification,
b.r.
P.R.
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] would ibogaine help?
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 01:14:07 EST
Katrina Hero Booked on Heroin Charge
The Houston Chronicle
Jabar Gibson’s heroic actions in the wake of Hurricane Katrina made him a
nationwide celebrity.
NEW ORLEANS (Nov. 26) – A man hailed by some as a hero for commandeering a
school bus the day after Hurricane Katrina to take 60 stranded residents to
safety in Houston has been arrested on drug charges where his bus journey began:
the Fischer public housing complex.
Jabar Gibson, 20, who garnered a movie deal and national attention as the
renegade bus driver, was booked Friday with possession with intent to distribute
heroin after police stopped his rental car for allegedly driving erratically,
New Orleans police said.
Gibson and another man, Gary Burnett, were traveling near the public housing
complex about 12:30 p.m. when they veered slightly and nearly struck the
police cruiser of officers Michael Pierce and Cory McKain, Pierce said.
The officers pursued the men’s car. the suspects stopped it and ran toward
the apartment complex, tossing what police said were drugs on the ground. They
were quickly caught.
Gibson became a national figure when he stole an Orleans Parish School bus
to rescue himself and his neighbors the day after Katrina struck. He claimed he
had never operated a bus, but he and his passengers arrived safely at the
Astrodome in Houston ahead of any other evacuee bus.
Two weeks before the storm, on Aug. 18, authorities said Gibson led police
on a highspeed chase that ended with a wreck and left four officers injured. He
was charged with possession of stolen property and resisting arrest by
flight.
Gibson’s police record also includes charges of aggravated assault, crack
possession with intent to distribute and possession of a stolen car.
On Friday, he faced charges of reckless driving and driving without a seat
belt or a driver’s license in addition to the drug charge.
Asked to describe what happened, Gibson shook his head and said nothing.
Despite his criminal past, some have hailed Gibson’s actions immediately
after Katrina as heroic.
After the hurricane hit, when the levees were breached and New Orleans began
to fill with water, Algiers residents began to panic.
Gibson said he and three friends siphoned a plastic jug full of fuel and
took a truck to an Algiers school bus barn. He drove one bus to Fischer and
collected about 60 people, including a week-old infant and a pregnant mother, and
shepherded them to Texas.
Last month, Gibson told a reporter, “I was in the wrong place at the wrong
time, a lot of times. But that’s all behind me now. I feel like the Lord, all
the problems I was going through, he just turned it around for me.”
Gibson’s passenger in the car, Burnett, 20, of Algiers, was booked Friday
with possession with intent to distribute heroin and crack cocaine.
11/26/05 15:04 EST
Copyright 2005 The Associated Press.
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it’s FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] would ibogaine help?
Date: November 27, 2005 at 1:55:08 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In a message dated 11/27/2005 12:14:36 AM Central Standard Time, HSLotsof@aol.com writes:
Katrina Hero Booked on Heroin Charge
The Houston Chronicle
Jabar Gibson’s heroic actions in the wake of Hurricane Katrina made him a nationwide celebrity.
NEW ORLEANS (Nov. 26) – A man hailed by some as a hero for commandeering a school bus the day after Hurricane Katrina to take 60 stranded residents to safety in Houston has been arrested on drug charges where his bus journey began: the Fischer public housing complex.
Jabar Gibson, 20, who garnered a movie deal and national attention as the renegade bus driver, was booked Friday with possession with intent to distribute heroin after police stopped his rental car for allegedly driving erratically, New Orleans police said.
Gibson and another man, Gary Burnett, were traveling near the public housing complex about 12:30 p.m. when they veered slightly and nearly struck the police cruiser of officers Michael Pierce and Cory McKain, Pierce said.
The officers pursued the men’s car. the suspects stopped it and ran toward the apartment complex, tossing what police said were drugs on the ground. They were quickly caught.
Gibson became a national figure when he stole an Orleans Parish School bus to rescue himself and his neighbors the day after Katrina struck. He claimed he had never operated a bus, but he and his passengers arrived safely at the Astrodome in Houston ahead of any other evacuee bus.
Two weeks before the storm, on Aug. 18, authorities said Gibson led police on a highspeed chase that ended with a wreck and left four officers injured. He was charged with possession of stolen property and resisting arrest by flight.
Gibson’s police record also includes charges of aggravated assault, crack possession with intent to distribute and possession of a stolen car.
On Friday, he faced charges of reckless driving and driving without a seat belt or a driver’s license in addition to the drug charge.
Asked to describe what happened, Gibson shook his head and said nothing.
Despite his criminal past, some have hailed Gibson’s actions immediately after Katrina as heroic.
After the hurricane hit, when the levees were breached and New Orleans began to fill with water, Algiers residents began to panic.
Gibson said he and three friends siphoned a plastic jug full of fuel and took a truck to an Algiers school bus barn. He drove one bus to Fischer and collected about 60 people, including a week-old infant and a pregnant mother, and shepherded them to Texas.
Last month, Gibson told a reporter, “I was in the wrong place at the wrong time, a lot of times. But that’s all behind me now. I feel like the Lord, all the problems I was going through, he just turned it around for me.”
Gibson’s passenger in the car, Burnett, 20, of Algiers, was booked Friday with possession with intent to distribute heroin and crack cocaine.
11/26/05 15:04 EST
Copyright 2005 The Associated Press.
I thought the exact same thing when I read this mans story!
Callie
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] new ibogaine article
Date: November 27, 2005 at 1:54:15 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In a message dated 11/26/2005 11:58:05 PM Central Standard Time, HSLotsof@aol.com writes:
http://www.northernexpress.com/editorial/features.asp?id=1533
great! thanks Howard!
Callie
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] would ibogaine help?
Date: November 27, 2005 at 1:14:07 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Katrina Hero Booked on Heroin Charge
The Houston Chronicle
Jabar Gibson’s heroic actions in the wake of Hurricane Katrina made him a nationwide celebrity.
NEW ORLEANS (Nov. 26) – A man hailed by some as a hero for commandeering a school bus the day after Hurricane Katrina to take 60 stranded residents to safety in Houston has been arrested on drug charges where his bus journey began: the Fischer public housing complex.
Jabar Gibson, 20, who garnered a movie deal and national attention as the renegade bus driver, was booked Friday with possession with intent to distribute heroin after police stopped his rental car for allegedly driving erratically, New Orleans police said.
Gibson and another man, Gary Burnett, were traveling near the public housing complex about 12:30 p.m. when they veered slightly and nearly struck the police cruiser of officers Michael Pierce and Cory McKain, Pierce said.
The officers pursued the men’s car. the suspects stopped it and ran toward the apartment complex, tossing what police said were drugs on the ground. They were quickly caught.
Gibson became a national figure when he stole an Orleans Parish School bus to rescue himself and his neighbors the day after Katrina struck. He claimed he had never operated a bus, but he and his passengers arrived safely at the Astrodome in Houston ahead of any other evacuee bus.
Two weeks before the storm, on Aug. 18, authorities said Gibson led police on a highspeed chase that ended with a wreck and left four officers injured. He was charged with possession of stolen property and resisting arrest by flight.
Gibson’s police record also includes charges of aggravated assault, crack possession with intent to distribute and possession of a stolen car.
On Friday, he faced charges of reckless driving and driving without a seat belt or a driver’s license in addition to the drug charge.
Asked to describe what happened, Gibson shook his head and said nothing.
Despite his criminal past, some have hailed Gibson’s actions immediately after Katrina as heroic.
After the hurricane hit, when the levees were breached and New Orleans began to fill with water, Algiers residents began to panic.
Gibson said he and three friends siphoned a plastic jug full of fuel and took a truck to an Algiers school bus barn. He drove one bus to Fischer and collected about 60 people, including a week-old infant and a pregnant mother, and shepherded them to Texas.
Last month, Gibson told a reporter, “I was in the wrong place at the wrong time, a lot of times. But that’s all behind me now. I feel like the Lord, all the problems I was going through, he just turned it around for me.”
Gibson’s passenger in the car, Burnett, 20, of Algiers, was booked Friday with possession with intent to distribute heroin and crack cocaine.
11/26/05 15:04 EST
Copyright 2005 The Associated Press.
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] new ibogaine article
Date: November 27, 2005 at 12:57:56 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
http://www.northernexpress.com/editorial/features.asp?id=1533
From: Beatrice Blue <beatriceblue@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (OT) Fwd: Spot the 75 bands in the picture: This is cool!
Date: November 26, 2005 at 10:22:51 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Everything in purple hasn’t been said before.
1. B-52s
2. Led Zeppelin
3. Gorillaz
4. Pet Shop Boys
5. Smashing Pumpkins
6. Sex Pistols
7. Blur
8. Scissor Sisters
9. Beach Boys
10. Ratt
11. The Nails
12. Cowboy Junkies
13. Alice In Chains
14. The Eagles
15. Black Flag
16. White Zombie
17. The Doors
18. The Rolling Stones
19. Queen
20. The Cars
21. Iron Maiden
22. Whitesnake
23. Blind Melon
24. Radiohead
25. Red Hot Chili Peppers
26. 50 Cent
27. Garbage
28. Dinosaur, Jr.
29. The Eels
30. The Pixies
31. U2
32. The Postal Service
33. Spoon
34. Main
35. Twisted Sister
36. Black Crowes
37. The Apes ?
38. The Monkeys
39. Lemonheads
40. Matchbox 20
41. The Police
42. The White Stripes
43. Television
44. Prince
45. Eminem
46. The Leaves
47. Ice Cube
48. Korn
49. Diamond
50. Jewel
51. The Vines
52. Dead Kennedys
53. Cake
54. Bubble
55. Yello?
56. Jesus & Mary Chain?
57. The Byrds
58. Hole
59. Deep Purple?
60. The Proclaimers?
61. Curve
62. Phish?
63. Blues Brothers?
64. Nine Inch Nails?
65. The Cranberries?
66. Crowded House?
67. The Windows
68. Jem?
69. The Killers?
70. Madonna?
On 11/26/05 9:48 AM, “Luke Christoffersen” <luke.christoffersen@gmail.com> wrote:
> This is quite fun!
>
>
> /]=———————————————————————=[\
> [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> \]=———————————————————————=[/
>
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Spot the 75 bands in the picture: This is cool!
Date: November 26, 2005 at 5:19:03 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In a message dated 11/26/2005 3:31:31 PM Central Standard Time, jfreed1@umbc.edu writes:
could anyone figure out what the smiling oranges were? they must be
something…ehe
lemonheads
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Spot the 75 bands in the picture: This is cool!
Date: November 26, 2005 at 5:18:15 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
The Monkeys
Sex Pistols
Queen
Blues Brothers(?)
Lemonheads
From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Spot the 75 bands in the picture: This is cool!
Date: November 26, 2005 at 4:31:06 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
wow, that’s pretty good =)
the only other ones i got were:
the eels
U2
the pixies
spoon
the apes
gorillaz
the postal service
blur
main
twisted sister
the black crows
and maybe queen
could anyone figure out what the smiling oranges were? they must be something…ehe
Sex pistols
Cowboy junkies
Black flag
White zombie
Rolling Stones
The Doors (maybe?)
The Cars (maybe?)
Iron Maiden
Rat
White Snake
Smashing Pumpkins
Scissor Sisters
Matchbox 20
Blind Melon
Alice In Chains
B52’s
Radiohead
Red Hot Chili Peppers
50 cent
Garbage
The Eagles
Led Zepplin (maybe?)
Dinosaur Jr
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Off Topic: World Communit Grid – HIV
Date: November 26, 2005 at 4:29:27 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Not telling anyone what to do or that their paranoia isn’t founded, but
there are a few long running distributed computing projects going, like
SETI for instance.
http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/
Like with anything else on the internet it is always possible that
malicious uses and backdoors can and probably will be found, but saying
distributed computing projects are a conspiracy to email spam is a
little off base.
You don’t need all that to send spam, all you need are hundreds of
millions of people running Windows 😉
If you don’t feel comfortable with the projects, then don’t join them.
.:vector:.
— darkmattersfo@comcast.net wrote:
I don’t know what kind of computer Don has, or what the operating
system, ant-virus software or firewall he is using, but my anti-virus
application and fire wall are up and running just fine.
I do computer support for a living and am very much aware of the
damage unknown applications can cause so I am generally very careful
with this sort of thing. I am not writing this to convince Don to run
the applet. It would be a waste of time.
I’ve participated in several of these distributed projects with no
ill affects.
These are not meant to be arguments to convince anyone to do
something on their computer they don’t feel comfortable doing. I’m
not going to get into a flame war with anyone on this either.
On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 17:24:54 -0800 Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
wrote:
Hiya Slow,
Thanks for responding, you seem to have taken a personal interest
in
WHATEVER I rant about, thank you and I appreciate it.
This is from the “Folding at Home” website:
“HOW ARE THESE NEW ADVANCES POSSIBLE?
In order to make breakthroughs using distributed computing, new
methods are critical. Distributed computing is an unusual way to
perform large-scale calculations. While it gives computer
resources
much greater than a typical supercomputer (e.g. the almost 200,000
actively processing CPUs in FAH vs. 5,000 in a typical
supercomputer), these processors are connected by the Internet,
not
the high speed, low latency interconnects found in supercomputers.
Thus, we must develop new methods to use FAH’s unusual
computational
paradigm and capabilities. Moreover, these methods must be tested.
Much of our work in the first years of FAH has been to develop
and
test these methods on model systems: small proteins which can be
easily studied experimentally. With these experimental
comparisons,
we can test and validate our methods, as well as find out their
limitations (which is critical for improving our methods).
To date, FAH has been very successful, with over 25 published
works
in the first five years directly stemming from FAH calculations
(and
lots more on the way). We will continue to work on all fronts: new
scientific cores, new server side algorithms, new models for
proteins, and new questions related to testing our methods and
applications to disease and other biomedical questions.”.
This is what I don’t understand, 200k computers mystically linked
over the Internet with basically a Trojan installed, can figure
out
more than a 5 THOUSAND processor Supercomputer.
If everyone had free access to the 5,000 node supercomputer, maybe
groups like this wouldn’t need to look for spare cycles. The
network connections are no more “mystical” than what you are using
to read your mail. For simple compute power, 200k/5k = 40, so if
each contributor on average provided 1/40th of the power of a
supercomputer node, then the two are equivalent for problems that
don’t need lots of bandwidth.
All antivirus software must be disabled,
Is this true? It sounds implausible that this would be an absolute
requirement.
as well a tremendous I/O firewall breach must be maintained.
That would be the case if you were running a server open to the
world. However I expect that you would be running a client that
would connect to their server, like your web browser is connected
to any site on the web. You do need to have enough trust that they
aren’t installing trojans like a Sony music CD would
(http://www.eff.org/IP/DRM/Sony-BMG/), or a porn site.
And the upside? Curing cancer, AIDS, alzheimers,
kinda Holy Grail type of stuff, but MY computer is my life, and to
compromise that by basically leaving gaping holes in my defense
system seems a little, well, uh, being polite here, less than an
educated move.
It sounds like you don’t know enough to make an informed decision
on this sort of thing, so best not to take a chance. The
interesting thing is how fantasize about it.
And this, “these processors are connected by the Internet, not
the high speed, low latency interconnects found in
supercomputers.”
Last I checked, ANY connection INSIDE of a computer kinda beat the
hell
out of any Internet connection, and any attempt to lead me not to
think so raises numerous red flags.
There is a tradeoff between speed and price. But more to your point
here, some problems lend themselves to slow connections, others
pretty much require fast ones. If a single compute node can do a
lot of work without needing updates, the problem is perfect for
this kind of cheap supercomputing.
I don’t think anyone is trying to claim the net is faster than a
parallel computer’s internal net. If you’re interested in getting
educated on this sort of thing, maybe a search on supercomputing
clusters would do the trick.
I just really doubt that the cure for cancer is gonna be figured
out by MY computer, in it’s spare time, with one processor, faster
or
even assisting a 5,000 processor supercomputer with the Internet
bottleneck in place. I wish it were so, common sense interdicts.
The odds of a huge boon to humanity from any project are slight,
plus you would be one of many. But I think it isn’t common sense
that interdicts, more likely a part of you that censors so well
that you need ibogaine to uncover why it is so afraid. There is
possibly something good in sharing a mystical communion with
thousands of people over doing good deeds, but trust is required,
and for this one needs to be able to trust one’s judgement.. and it
is hard to recover from the trauma of a mistake.
One tangible result from such a group effort was to show that some
kind of cryptographic key was no longer secure, resulting in
earlier adoption of more secure keys.
Bee
slowone@hush.ai wrote:
On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 15:28:16 -0800 Don Patton   wrote:
Not to be crass, but I have always been skeptical about these.
Any
mathematical equation only needs one computer, and cannot harness
data from drones.
Why do you think this is the case? Virtually all powerful
computers
nowadays work in exactly this manner.
What they CAN do is spam to the n’th degree.
This is certainly true. It would be big news if it actually
happened with one of the science projects.
I decline. darkmattersfo@comcast.net wrote:
There is a “World Community Grid” reseach project that uses
personal pc’s all over the world to perform computational
research
to design new anti-HIV drugs based on molecular structure.
A small applet is loaded onto your PC and runs in the back
ground. As results are produced they are loaded back up to a
research mainframe. By using this type of distributed computing
researchers are able to process large amounts of data in a much
shorter time. This type of computing has been around and has
been/is
being used to: Solve complex mathematical problems, seach  for
extra-terrestrial live, smallpox research, etc.
There are currently over 100,000 people participating in this
particular project all over the world. The goal is to get 500,000
involved.
http://www.worldcommunitygrid.org/projects_showcase/viewFaahResea
r
ch.do
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Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
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From: darkmattersfo@comcast.net
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Off Topic: World Communit Grid – HIV
Date: November 26, 2005 at 3:55:52 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com, <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Cc: <slowone@hush.ai>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I don’t know what kind of computer Don has, or what the operating system, ant-virus software or firewall he is using, but my anti-virus application and fire wall are up and running just fine.
I do computer support for a living and am very much aware of the damage unknown applications can cause so I am generally very careful with this sort of thing. I am not writing this to convince Don to run the applet. It would be a waste of time.
I’ve participated in several of these distributed projects with no ill affects.
These are not meant to be arguments to convince anyone to do something on their computer they don’t feel comfortable doing. I’m not going to get into a flame war with anyone on this either.
On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 17:24:54 -0800 Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
wrote:
Hiya Slow,
Thanks for responding, you seem to have taken a personal interest
in
WHATEVER I rant about, thank you and I appreciate it.
This is from the “Folding at Home” website:
“HOW ARE THESE NEW ADVANCES POSSIBLE?
In order to make breakthroughs using distributed computing, new
methods are critical. Distributed computing is an unusual way to
perform large-scale calculations. While it gives computer
resources
much greater than a typical supercomputer (e.g. the almost 200,000
actively processing CPUs in FAH vs. 5,000 in a typical
supercomputer), these processors are connected by the Internet,
not
the high speed, low latency interconnects found in supercomputers.
Thus, we must develop new methods to use FAH’s unusual
computational
paradigm and capabilities. Moreover, these methods must be tested.
Much of our work in the first years of FAH has been to develop
and
test these methods on model systems: small proteins which can be
easily studied experimentally. With these experimental
comparisons,
we can test and validate our methods, as well as find out their
limitations (which is critical for improving our methods).
To date, FAH has been very successful, with over 25 published
works
in the first five years directly stemming from FAH calculations
(and
lots more on the way). We will continue to work on all fronts: new
scientific cores, new server side algorithms, new models for
proteins, and new questions related to testing our methods and
applications to disease and other biomedical questions.”.
This is what I don’t understand, 200k computers mystically linked
over the Internet with basically a Trojan installed, can figure
out
more than a 5 THOUSAND processor Supercomputer.
If everyone had free access to the 5,000 node supercomputer, maybe
groups like this wouldn’t need to look for spare cycles. The
network connections are no more “mystical” than what you are using
to read your mail. For simple compute power, 200k/5k = 40, so if
each contributor on average provided 1/40th of the power of a
supercomputer node, then the two are equivalent for problems that
don’t need lots of bandwidth.
All antivirus software must be disabled,
Is this true? It sounds implausible that this would be an absolute
requirement.
as well a tremendous I/O firewall breach must be maintained.
That would be the case if you were running a server open to the
world. However I expect that you would be running a client that
would connect to their server, like your web browser is connected
to any site on the web. You do need to have enough trust that they
aren’t installing trojans like a Sony music CD would
(http://www.eff.org/IP/DRM/Sony-BMG/), or a porn site.
And the upside? Curing cancer, AIDS, alzheimers,
kinda Holy Grail type of stuff, but MY computer is my life, and to
compromise that by basically leaving gaping holes in my defense
system seems a little, well, uh, being polite here, less than an
educated move.
It sounds like you don’t know enough to make an informed decision
on this sort of thing, so best not to take a chance. The
interesting thing is how fantasize about it.
And this, “these processors are connected by the Internet, not
the high speed, low latency interconnects found in
supercomputers.”
Last I checked, ANY connection INSIDE of a computer kinda beat the
hell
out of any Internet connection, and any attempt to lead me not to
think so raises numerous red flags.
There is a tradeoff between speed and price. But more to your point
here, some problems lend themselves to slow connections, others
pretty much require fast ones. If a single compute node can do a
lot of work without needing updates, the problem is perfect for
this kind of cheap supercomputing.
I don’t think anyone is trying to claim the net is faster than a
parallel computer’s internal net. If you’re interested in getting
educated on this sort of thing, maybe a search on supercomputing
clusters would do the trick.
I just really doubt that the cure for cancer is gonna be figured
out by MY computer, in it’s spare time, with one processor, faster
or
even assisting a 5,000 processor supercomputer with the Internet
bottleneck in place. I wish it were so, common sense interdicts.
The odds of a huge boon to humanity from any project are slight,
plus you would be one of many. But I think it isn’t common sense
that interdicts, more likely a part of you that censors so well
that you need ibogaine to uncover why it is so afraid. There is
possibly something good in sharing a mystical communion with
thousands of people over doing good deeds, but trust is required,
and for this one needs to be able to trust one’s judgement.. and it
is hard to recover from the trauma of a mistake.
One tangible result from such a group effort was to show that some
kind of cryptographic key was no longer secure, resulting in
earlier adoption of more secure keys.
Bee
slowone@hush.ai wrote:
On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 15:28:16 -0800 Don Patton   wrote:
Not to be crass, but I have always been skeptical about these.
Any
mathematical equation only needs one computer, and cannot harness
data from drones.
Why do you think this is the case? Virtually all powerful
computers
nowadays work in exactly this manner.
What they CAN do is spam to the n’th degree.
This is certainly true. It would be big news if it actually
happened with one of the science projects.
I decline. darkmattersfo@comcast.net wrote:
There is a “World Community Grid” reseach project that uses
personal pc’s all over the world to perform computational
research
to design new anti-HIV drugs based on molecular structure.
A small applet is loaded onto your PC and runs in the back
ground. As results are produced they are loaded back up to a
research mainframe. By using this type of distributed computing
researchers are able to process large amounts of data in a much
shorter time. This type of computing has been around and has
been/is
being used to: Solve complex mathematical problems, seach  for
extra-terrestrial live, smallpox research, etc.
There are currently over 100,000 people participating in this
particular project all over the world. The goal is to get 500,000
involved.
http://www.worldcommunitygrid.org/projects_showcase/viewFaahResea
r
ch.do
/]=————————————————————-
——–=[
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
]=————————————————————-
——–=[/
/]=————————————————————-
——-=[ [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
]=————————————————————–
——-=[/
Concerned about your privacy? Instantly send FREE secure email,
no
account required http://www.hushmail.com/send?l=480 Get the best
prices on SSL certificates from Hushmail
https://www.hushssl.com?l=485
/]=—————————————————————-
—–=[
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
]=—————————————————————–
—-=[/
/]=—————————————————————-
—–=[
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
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]=—————————————————————–
—-=[/
Concerned about your privacy? Instantly send FREE secure email, no account
required
http://www.hushmail.com/send?l=480
Get the best prices on SSL certificates from Hushmail
https://www.hushssl.com?l=485
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 \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: “Matthew Shriver” <matt@itsupport.net>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Spot the 75 bands in the picture: This is cool!
Date: November 26, 2005 at 3:22:39 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sex pistols
Cowboy junkies
Black flag
White zombie
Rolling Stones
The Doors (maybe?)
The Cars (maybe?)
Iron Maiden
Rat
White Snake
Smashing Pumpkins
Scissor Sisters
Matchbox 20
Blind Melon
Alice In Chains
B52’s
Radiohead
Red Hot Chili Peppers
50 cent
Garbage
The Eagles
Led Zepplin (maybe?)
Dinosaur Jr
From: Lee Albert [mailto:myeboga@yahoo.co.uk] 
Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 12:51 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Spot the 75 bands in the picture: This is cool!
Guns & Roses

CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
Yeah….pretty cool, but where are the answers or at least the bands we need to look for? hahahaha! Yes, I am lazy when it comes to puzzles or quizzes. I prefer multiple choice! Seriously, if you find all 75 can you post a list of the bands….not the answers (where they are), just the list.
Pray for peace,
Callie
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Off Topic: World Communit Grid – HIV
Date: November 26, 2005 at 3:05:51 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 17:24:54 -0800 Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
wrote:
Hiya Slow,
Thanks for responding, you seem to have taken a personal interest
in
WHATEVER I rant about, thank you and I appreciate it.
This is from the “Folding at Home” website:
“HOW ARE THESE NEW ADVANCES POSSIBLE?
In order to make breakthroughs using distributed computing, new
methods are critical. Distributed computing is an unusual way to
perform large-scale calculations. While it gives computer
resources
much greater than a typical supercomputer (e.g. the almost 200,000
actively processing CPUs in FAH vs. 5,000 in a typical
supercomputer), these processors are connected by the Internet,
not
the high speed, low latency interconnects found in supercomputers.
Thus, we must develop new methods to use FAH’s unusual
computational
paradigm and capabilities. Moreover, these methods must be tested.
Much of our work in the first years of FAH has been to develop
and
test these methods on model systems: small proteins which can be
easily studied experimentally. With these experimental
comparisons,
we can test and validate our methods, as well as find out their
limitations (which is critical for improving our methods).
To date, FAH has been very successful, with over 25 published
works
in the first five years directly stemming from FAH calculations
(and
lots more on the way). We will continue to work on all fronts: new
scientific cores, new server side algorithms, new models for
proteins, and new questions related to testing our methods and
applications to disease and other biomedical questions.”.
This is what I don’t understand, 200k computers mystically linked
over the Internet with basically a Trojan installed, can figure
out
more than a 5 THOUSAND processor Supercomputer.
If everyone had free access to the 5,000 node supercomputer, maybe
groups like this wouldn’t need to look for spare cycles. The
network connections are no more “mystical” than what you are using
to read your mail. For simple compute power, 200k/5k = 40, so if
each contributor on average provided 1/40th of the power of a
supercomputer node, then the two are equivalent for problems that
don’t need lots of bandwidth.
All antivirus software must be disabled,
Is this true? It sounds implausible that this would be an absolute
requirement.
as well a tremendous I/O firewall breach must be maintained.
That would be the case if you were running a server open to the
world. However I expect that you would be running a client that
would connect to their server, like your web browser is connected
to any site on the web. You do need to have enough trust that they
aren’t installing trojans like a Sony music CD would
(http://www.eff.org/IP/DRM/Sony-BMG/), or a porn site.
And the upside? Curing cancer, AIDS, alzheimers,
kinda Holy Grail type of stuff, but MY computer is my life, and to
compromise that by basically leaving gaping holes in my defense
system seems a little, well, uh, being polite here, less than an
educated move.
It sounds like you don’t know enough to make an informed decision
on this sort of thing, so best not to take a chance. The
interesting thing is how fantasize about it.
And this, “these processors are connected by the Internet, not
the high speed, low latency interconnects found in
supercomputers.”
Last I checked, ANY connection INSIDE of a computer kinda beat the
hell
out of any Internet connection, and any attempt to lead me not to
think so raises numerous red flags.
There is a tradeoff between speed and price. But more to your point
here, some problems lend themselves to slow connections, others
pretty much require fast ones. If a single compute node can do a
lot of work without needing updates, the problem is perfect for
this kind of cheap supercomputing.
I don’t think anyone is trying to claim the net is faster than a
parallel computer’s internal net. If you’re interested in getting
educated on this sort of thing, maybe a search on supercomputing
clusters would do the trick.
I just really doubt that the cure for cancer is gonna be figured
out by MY computer, in it’s spare time, with one processor, faster
or
even assisting a 5,000 processor supercomputer with the Internet
bottleneck in place. I wish it were so, common sense interdicts.
The odds of a huge boon to humanity from any project are slight,
plus you would be one of many. But I think it isn’t common sense
that interdicts, more likely a part of you that censors so well
that you need ibogaine to uncover why it is so afraid. There is
possibly something good in sharing a mystical communion with
thousands of people over doing good deeds, but trust is required,
and for this one needs to be able to trust one’s judgement.. and it
is hard to recover from the trauma of a mistake.
One tangible result from such a group effort was to show that some
kind of cryptographic key was no longer secure, resulting in
earlier adoption of more secure keys.
Bee
slowone@hush.ai wrote:
On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 15:28:16 -0800 Don Patton   wrote:
Not to be crass, but I have always been skeptical about these.
Any
mathematical equation only needs one computer, and cannot harness
data from drones.
Why do you think this is the case? Virtually all powerful
computers
nowadays work in exactly this manner.
What they CAN do is spam to the n’th degree.
This is certainly true. It would be big news if it actually
happened with one of the science projects.
I decline. darkmattersfo@comcast.net wrote:
There is a “World Community Grid” reseach project that uses
personal pc’s all over the world to perform computational
research
to design new anti-HIV drugs based on molecular structure.
A small applet is loaded onto your PC and runs in the back
ground. As results are produced they are loaded back up to a
research mainframe. By using this type of distributed computing
researchers are able to process large amounts of data in a much
shorter time. This type of computing has been around and has
been/is
being used to: Solve complex mathematical problems, seach  for
extra-terrestrial live, smallpox research, etc.
There are currently over 100,000 people participating in this
particular project all over the world. The goal is to get 500,000
involved.
http://www.worldcommunitygrid.org/projects_showcase/viewFaahResea
r
ch.do
/]=————————————————————-
——–=[
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
]=————————————————————-
——–=[/
/]=————————————————————-
——-=[ [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
]=————————————————————–
——-=[/
Concerned about your privacy? Instantly send FREE secure email,
no
account required http://www.hushmail.com/send?l=480 Get the best
prices on SSL certificates from Hushmail
https://www.hushssl.com?l=485
/]=—————————————————————-
—–=[
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
]=—————————————————————–
—-=[/
/]=—————————————————————-
—–=[
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
]=—————————————————————–
—-=[/
Concerned about your privacy? Instantly send FREE secure email, no account required
http://www.hushmail.com/send?l=480
Get the best prices on SSL certificates from Hushmail
https://www.hushssl.com?l=485
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 \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Spot the 75 bands in the picture: This is cool!
Date: November 26, 2005 at 2:51:02 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Guns & Roses
CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
Yeah….pretty cool, but where are the answers or at least the bands we need to look for? hahahaha! Yes, I am lazy when it comes to puzzles or quizzes. I prefer multiple choice! Seriously, if you find all 75 can you post a list of the bands….not the answers (where they are), just the list.
Pray for peace,
Callie
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
From: Luke Christoffersen <luke.christoffersen@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Spot the 75 bands in the picture: This is cool!
Date: November 26, 2005 at 1:45:14 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
ha ha i got about 25 so far and then got stuck.  Start with the cart
on the left, that has Guns N’ Roses on it and you’ll start to get the
idea 🙂
On 11/26/05, CallieMimosa@aol.com <CallieMimosa@aol.com> wrote:
Yeah….pretty cool, but where are the answers or at least the bands we need
to look for? hahahaha! Yes, I am lazy when it comes to puzzles or quizzes. I
prefer multiple choice! Seriously, if you find all 75 can you post a list of
the bands….not the answers (where they are), just the list.
Pray for peace,
Callie
 /]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
 \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Spot the 75 bands in the picture: This is cool!
Date: November 26, 2005 at 1:24:19 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Yeah….pretty cool, but where are the answers or at least the bands we need to look for? hahahaha! Yes, I am lazy when it comes to puzzles or quizzes. I prefer multiple choice! Seriously, if you find all 75 can you post a list of the bands….not the answers (where they are), just the list.
Pray for peace,
Callie
From: Luke Christoffersen <luke.christoffersen@gmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Spot the 75 bands in the picture: This is cool!
Date: November 26, 2005 at 12:48:18 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
This is quite fun!
 /]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
 \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death – Death in 2000 JW – Alternative Theory – addition
Date: November 26, 2005 at 9:14:15 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
this actually does make a lot of sense to me too.
the idea that low doses that really are not large enough may leave a patient ill, in withdrwal, and not able to deal with adverse health conditions.
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —– From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 8:19 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death – Death in 2000 JW – Alternative Theory – addition
Something which maybe we can consider with this death is this:
In administering extract or HCl a dose which is insufficient or low may precipitate adverse medical conditions due to the onset of withdrawals and clients need to be carefully supervised in the days following treatment to ensure the risk of such events has passed.
Lee
Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Nick,
Thanks mucho. The extra info you have given here is great. Many thanks.
Last night thinking on this:
The amount of extract for methadone withdrawal is 11 grams with Sara and 9 grams with Marc Emery (who is very conservative in his approach but for good reason) per Howards:
Forms & Dose Regimens
www.ibogaine.desk.nl/ibogaine_forms_dose_regimen.ppt
For Heroin withdrawal the amount Sara states is 7grams of extract.
According to: http://userpages.umbc.edu/~jfreed1/Ibogaine.html
The third recorded fatality occurred in 2000, in the U.K. The patient was a 38 year old male, and suffered from hepatitis C. He was administered a total of approximately 5 grams of a total iboga extract standardised to 15% ibogaine. This was a most peculiar case, as the fatality did not occur until after the effects of ibogaine had subsided, 38 hours after initial administration. Police toxicologist Dr. John Taylor told testified that the level of ibogaine in the dead man’s blood was “well below the normal toxic dose” (Kerr, 2001). According to writer Nick Sandberg (2002), the official inquest named the primary cause of death as asphyxiation due to vomit clogging airways, with liver failure as a secondary cause.
What is interesting is that this states 5grams and indeed most of the other reports I have seen also state 5 grams, so I am not sure if you are 100% on the amount?
Anyway, I assume JW was being treated for Heroin or was he on Methadone maintenance at the time?
In either case, the amount he took is below what would normally be given and I am left with the thought that death may have been due to insufficient iboga extract been given resulting in an onset of late withdrawls agitated in part by choking on a sandwich. This coupled with any other health issues JW may have had such as Hep C. According to Dr Ed:
“Disorders appearing during “recovery,” included gastrointestinal hyperactivity/acidity (ulcers, gastro-esophageal reflux, diarrhea, etc.) and thrombosis (coronary occlusions, thrombophlebitis with pulmonary embolism/infarction, arterial thrombosis-mesenteric occlusion/cerebral artery strokes) and infection at sites previous dormant during stress (pneumonia, dental and skin abscesses, etc.) In addition, gastro-esophageal reflux is known to lead to aspiration of acidic stomach contents into the lungs, causing “asthma-like” symptoms and sometimes sudden death (e.g. Reggie White of Green Bay Packer fame).”
5grams of extract (based on the generally recognised 15% ibogaine content) is equivalent to 750mg of ibogaine (6=900mg), a very small amount indeed. For a 70kg male = 10,7mg/kg and 12,85 mg/kg respectively. In either case much too low for heroin interruption treatment especially if only 5grams were given.
So I find myself reading the coroners conclusions as basically uninformed and highly speculative as the coroner knew nothing of the amounts of ibogaine/extract needed for addiction treatment and perhaps knew nothing about the complications of withdrawal as stated by Dr. Ed (whose contributions to this list I find “wonderful”).
In this case I think withdrawals of some kind were inevitable and what this report shows about the dangers of ibogaine or the extract itself, as opposed to withdrawing from heroin, is this: nothing. Its quite possibly a big red herring. In fact one could argue that death was due to insufficient ibogaine/extract been given.
Lee
Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
—–Original Message—–
From: Lee Albert [mailto:myeboga@yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: 25 November 2005 16:30
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death:
Nick,
Can you set the record even straighter?
There is some confusion about this death in 2000 due to the extract.
I have heard it reported as:
1. Ate a large meal a few days after treatment, burst a vessel, ruptured the stomach .
and as you state below:
2. Choked on a sandwich somehow dying on his own vomit while left unattended in the toilet.
Hi Lee,
I’ve not heard of the first scenario. It was number 2. I knew the girl who gave the treatment and was at the inquest, both sittings. When the patient began to die paramedics were called and one said that it looked like a stomach burst. This story got propagated about for a while as it was another year until the actual inquest began. The first inquest was adjourned when I pointed out that J had not taken actual ibogaine but rather the Indra iboga extract. Dr Mash was contacted by the pathologist and she confirmed that the blood samples taken show low traces of iboga extract not pure ibogaine. The pathologist’s report put cause of death down to inhalation of vomit, if I recall correctly, but am not 100% on this. The coroner recorded “fatal reaction to t.iboga extract.” Dr Mash was keen that ibogaine itself not be blamed when J had not taken it. A year or so later t.iboga was put on a list of substances due to be controlled in the UK. However the paper never went through, there were 50 or so other herbs on it, and thus iboga is still not scheduled in the UK. (Though supply would likely be an offense).
Are these two sceanarios the same person?
Maybe I need to reread this thread but how exactly does dying from inhaling ones fluids imply that ibogaine/eboga extract is unsafe?
Frankly, if there had been a defense pathologist in court (one defending the iboga extract) I very much doubt that the verdict would have come out the way it did. It’s more that the coroner, Paul Knapp, if I recall, regarded it as his duty to warn the public of any dangerous new substances about (fair enough in a way) and as there was no one there to cross examine the state pathologist he did just that.
Let me know if you need more
Nick
Thanks
Lee
Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Just to set the record straighter, an ibogaine death actually HAS been attributed to vomiting and inhaling associated fluids. JW, Jan 2000 in London, died in this manner after taking 6g of iboga extract to treat long term opiate dependency. Coroner recorded “fatal reaction to t.iboga extract.” He died when left unattended briefly after eating a sandwich some 38 hours after taking the drug.
Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: Matthew Shriver [mailto:matt@itsupport.net]
Sent: 25 November 2005 03:23
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death:
Well having read all of that again I still don’t see where he said “Ibogaine deaths have been attributed to vomiting and inhaling associated fluids” Maybe it’s all the same to you but in reality you put words into someone else’s mouth.  I don’t even see that idea implied here.  If we are talking about people dying it’s important that we are accurate, misinformation can be as bad as disinformation.  The implication is that death by aspiration could occur in someone undergoing NARCOTIC WITHDRAWAL, not from ibogaine use.
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net]
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 7:58 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death:
Matt, here is a quote:
Edfriedrichs@aol.com wrote:
It is worth noting that Vomiting leading to Aspiration into the Lungs CAN AND DOES CAUSE sudden death (asphyxiation/drowning).  Vomiting is certainly a frequent part of narcotic withdrawal, especially if the stomach is full of food from recent eating.  That is why when someone suffers a convulsive seizure, it is important to prevent vomiting/aspiration and/or obstruction of the air-way by the tongue.  Benzo withdrawal can also cause seizures, sometimes days after stopping valium because valium is “long” acting as a dependency drug.  You can prolong alcohol withdrawal with “too much” benzodiazapine” treatment, because they are a sedative substitute for alcohol.  Those are SOME of the reasons that Withdrawal of any fashion and especially Ibogaine treatments should have a sophisticated helper present thruout, ideally a medically trained one AND no hestitancy to call “911.” Peace,  Dr. Ed
While looking this up, I found this:
In addition, gastro-esophageal reflux is known to lead to aspiration of acidic stomach contents into the lungs, causing “asthma-like” symptoms and sometimes sudden death (e.g. Reggie White of Green Bay Packer fame).
Seems like he has already answered my idiotic question, I just lost it in the threads. My point was, the threat is not from vomiting, but from reflux. Inhalation CAN and is more likely to occur without the obvious signs of vomiting, a patient can be lying quietly on their back and their stomach just starts draining into their lungs. My intent is to alert caregivers that sudden choking of a benign patient may be indicative of this, and as they will be unable to communicate, (inhaling stomach acid is akin to inhaling a lit propane torch soaked in gasoline) just don’t freak out. Vomiting may come afterwards, after SEVERE gagging, choking and coughing, and vocal chords will be impaired, singed, so to speak, for quite a while. ANYBODY who is “Knocked out” is susceptible to this, not just Ibo patients.
Am I right, Doc?
Geez, I luv you guys, thanx for being here!
Matthew Shriver wrote:
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net]
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 6:59 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death:
What I’m asking is, when you say Ibogaine deaths have been attributed to vomiting and inhaling associated fluids, are you talking about reflux inhalation?
I am pretty sure I never read Dr Ed saying that.
Edfriedrichs@aol.com wrote:
The esophageal sphincter HAS to relax whenever there is vomiting, otherwise the acid and food would stay in the stomach.  Reflux happens easier during reclining sleep, if the esophageal sphincter is weak or permanently ruptured by an “diaphrag-matic hernia” from the abdomen into the chest.   Dr. Ed.
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death – Death in 2000 JW – Alternative Theory – addition
Date: November 26, 2005 at 8:19:57 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Something which maybe we can consider with this death is this:
In administering extract or HCl a dose which is insufficient or low may precipitate adverse medical conditions due to the onset of withdrawals and clients need to be carefully supervised in the days following treatment to ensure the risk of such events has passed.
Lee
Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Nick,
Thanks mucho. The extra info you have given here is great. Many thanks.
Last night thinking on this:
The amount of extract for methadone withdrawal is 11 grams with Sara and 9 grams with Marc Emery (who is very conservative in his approach but for good reason) per Howards:
Forms & Dose Regimens
www.ibogaine.desk.nl/ibogaine_forms_dose_regimen.ppt
For Heroin withdrawal the amount Sara states is 7grams of extract.
According to: http://userpages.umbc.edu/~jfreed1/Ibogaine.html
 The third recorded fatality occurred in 2000, in the U.K. The patient was a 38 year old male, and suffered from hepatitis C. He was administered a total of approximately 5 grams of a total iboga extract standardised to 15% ibogaine. This was a most peculiar case, as the fatality did not occur until after the effects of ibogaine had subsided, 38 hours after initial administration. Police toxicologist Dr. John Taylor told testified that the level of ibogaine in the dead man’s blood was “well below the normal toxic dose” (Kerr, 2001). According to writer Nick Sandberg (2002), the official inquest named the primary cause of death as asphyxiation due to vomit clogging airways, with liver failure as a secondary cause.
What is interesting is that this states 5grams and indeed most of the other reports I have seen also state 5 grams, so I am not sure if you are 100% on the amount?
Anyway, I assume JW was being treated for Heroin or was he on Methadone maintenance at the time?
In either case, the amount he took is below what would normally be given and I am left with the thought that death may have been due to insufficient iboga extract been given resulting in an onset of late withdrawls agitated in part by choking on a sandwich. This coupled with any other health issues JW may have had such as Hep C. According to Dr Ed:
“Disorders appearing during “recovery,” included gastrointestinal hyperactivity/acidity (ulcers, gastro-esophageal reflux, diarrhea, etc.) and thrombosis (coronary occlusions, thrombophlebitis with pulmonary embolism/infarction, arterial thrombosis-mesenteric occlusion/cerebral artery strokes) and infection at sites previous dormant during stress (pneumonia, dental and skin abscesses, etc.) In addition, gastro-esophageal reflux is known to lead to aspiration of acidic stomach contents into the lungs, causing “asthma-like” symptoms and sometimes sudden death (e.g. Reggie White of Green Bay Packer fame).”
5grams of extract (based on the generally recognised 15% ibogaine content) is equivalent to 750mg of ibogaine (6=900mg), a very small amount indeed. For a 70kg male = 10,7mg/kg and 12,85 mg/kg respectively. In either case much too low for heroin interruption treatment especially if only 5grams were given.
So I find myself reading the coroners conclusions as basically uninformed and highly speculative as the coroner knew nothing of the amounts of ibogaine/extract needed for addiction treatment and perhaps knew nothing about the complications of withdrawal as stated by Dr. Ed (whose contributions to this list I find “wonderful”).
In this case I think withdrawals of some kind were inevitable and what this report shows about the dangers of ibogaine or the extract itself, as opposed to withdrawing from heroin, is this: nothing. Its quite possibly a big red herring. In fact one could argue that death was due to insufficient ibogaine/extract been given.
Lee
Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
—–Original Message—–
From: Lee Albert [mailto:myeboga@yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: 25 November 2005 16:30
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death:
Nick,
Can you set the record even straighter?
There is some confusion about this death in 2000 due to the extract.
I have heard it reported as:
1. Ate a large meal a few days after treatment, burst a vessel, ruptured the stomach .
and as you state below:
2. Choked on a sandwich somehow dying on his own vomit while left unattended in the toilet.
Hi Lee,
I’ve not heard of the first scenario. It was number 2. I knew the girl who gave the treatment and was at the inquest, both sittings. When the patient began to die paramedics were called and one said that it looked like a stomach burst. This story got propagated about for a while as it was another year until the actual inquest began. The first inquest was adjourned when I pointed out that J had not taken actual ibogaine but rather the Indra iboga extract. Dr Mash was contacted by the pathologist and she confirmed that the blood samples taken show low traces of iboga extract not pure ibogaine. The pathologist’s report put cause of death down to inhalation of vomit, if I recall correctly, but am not 100% on this. The coroner recorded “fatal reaction to t.iboga extract.” Dr Mash was keen that ibogaine itself not be blamed when J had not taken it. A year or so later t.iboga was put on a list of substances due to be controlled in the UK. However the paper never went through, there were 50 or so other herbs on it, and thus iboga is still not scheduled in the UK. (Though supply would likely be an offense).
Are these two sceanarios the same person?
Maybe I need to reread this thread but how exactly does dying from inhaling ones fluids imply that ibogaine/eboga extract is unsafe?
Frankly, if there had been a defense pathologist in court (one defending the iboga extract) I very much doubt that the verdict would have come out the way it did. It’s more that the coroner, Paul Knapp, if I recall, regarded it as his duty to warn the public of any dangerous new substances about (fair enough in a way) and as there was no one there to cross examine the state pathologist he did just that.
Let me know if you need more
Nick
Thanks
Lee
Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Just to set the record straighter, an ibogaine death actually HAS been attributed to vomiting and inhaling associated fluids. JW, Jan 2000 in London, died in this manner after taking 6g of iboga extract to treat long term opiate dependency. Coroner recorded “fatal reaction to t.iboga extract.” He died when left unattended briefly after eating a sandwich some 38 hours after taking the drug.
Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: Matthew Shriver [mailto:matt@itsupport.net]
Sent: 25 November 2005 03:23
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death:
Well having read all of that again I still don’t see where he said “Ibogaine deaths have been attributed to vomiting and inhaling associated fluids”  Maybe it’s all the same to you but in reality you put words into someone else’s mouth.  I don’t even see that idea implied here.  If we are talking about people dying it’s important that we are accurate, misinformation can be as bad as disinformation.  The implication is that death by aspiration could occur in someone undergoing NARCOTIC WITHDRAWAL, not from ibogaine use.
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net]
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 7:58 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death:
Matt, here is a quote:
Edfriedrichs@aol.com wrote:
It is worth noting that Vomiting leading to Aspiration into the Lungs CAN AND DOES CAUSE sudden death (asphyxiation/drowning).  Vomiting is certainly a frequent part of narcotic withdrawal, especially if the stomach is full of food from recent eating.  That is why when someone suffers a convulsive seizure, it is important to prevent vomiting/aspiration and/or obstruction of the air-way by the tongue.  Benzo withdrawal can also cause seizures, sometimes days after stopping valium because valium is “long” acting as a dependency drug.  You can prolong alcohol withdrawal with “too much” benzodiazapine” treatment, because they are a sedative substitute for alcohol.  Those are SOME of the reasons that Withdrawal of any fashion and especially Ibogaine treatments should have a sophisticated helper present thruout, ideally a medically trained one AND no hestitancy to call “911.”  Peace,  Dr. Ed
While looking this up, I found this:
In addition, gastro-esophageal reflux is known to lead to aspiration of acidic stomach contents into the lungs, causing “asthma-like” symptoms and sometimes sudden death (e.g. Reggie White of Green Bay Packer fame).
Seems like he has already answered my idiotic question, I just lost it in the threads. My point was, the threat is not from vomiting, but from reflux. Inhalation CAN and is more likely to occur without the obvious signs of vomiting, a patient can be lying quietly on their back and their stomach just starts draining into their lungs. My intent is to alert caregivers that sudden choking of a benign patient may be indicative of this, and as they will be unable to communicate, (inhaling stomach acid is akin to inhaling a lit propane torch soaked in gasoline) just don’t freak out. Vomiting may come afterwards, after SEVERE gagging, choking and coughing, and vocal chords will be impaired, singed, so to speak, for quite a while. ANYBODY who is “Knocked out” is susceptible to this, not just Ibo patients.
Am I right, Doc?
Geez, I luv you guys, thanx for being here!
Matthew Shriver wrote:
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net]
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 6:59 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death:
What I’m asking is, when you say Ibogaine deaths have been attributed to vomiting and inhaling associated fluids, are you talking about reflux inhalation?
I am pretty sure I never read Dr Ed saying that.
Edfriedrichs@aol.com wrote:
The esophageal sphincter HAS to relax whenever there is vomiting, otherwise the acid and food would stay in the stomach.  Reflux happens easier during reclining sleep, if the esophageal sphincter is weak or permanently ruptured by an “diaphrag-matic hernia” from the abdomen into the chest.   Dr. Ed.
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death – Death in 2000 JW – Alternative Theory
Date: November 26, 2005 at 6:50:15 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Nick,
Thanks mucho. The extra info you have given here is great. Many thanks.
Last night thinking on this:
The amount of extract for methadone withdrawal is 11 grams with Sara and 9 grams with Marc Emery (who is very conservative in his approach but for good reason) per Howards:
Forms & Dose Regimens
www.ibogaine.desk.nl/ibogaine_forms_dose_regimen.ppt
For Heroin withdrawal the amount Sara states is 7grams of extract.
According to: http://userpages.umbc.edu/~jfreed1/Ibogaine.html
 The third recorded fatality occurred in 2000, in the U.K. The patient was a 38 year old male, and suffered from hepatitis C. He was administered a total of approximately 5 grams of a total iboga extract standardised to 15% ibogaine. This was a most peculiar case, as the fatality did not occur until after the effects of ibogaine had subsided, 38 hours after initial administration. Police toxicologist Dr. John Taylor told testified that the level of ibogaine in the dead man’s blood was “well below the normal toxic dose” (Kerr, 2001). According to writer Nick Sandberg (2002), the official inquest named the primary cause of death as asphyxiation due to vomit clogging airways, with liver failure as a secondary cause.
What is interesting is that this states 5grams and indeed most of the other reports I have seen also state 5 grams, so I am not sure if you are 100% on the amount?
Anyway, I assume JW was being treated for Heroin or was he on Methadone maintenance at the time?
In either case, the amount he took is below what would normally be given and I am left with the thought that death may have been due to insufficient iboga extract been given resulting in an onset of late withdrawls agitated in part by choking on a sandwich. This coupled with any other health issues JW may have had such as Hep C. According to Dr Ed:
“Disorders appearing during “recovery,” included gastrointestinal hyperactivity/acidity (ulcers, gastro-esophageal reflux, diarrhea, etc.) and thrombosis (coronary occlusions, thrombophlebitis with pulmonary embolism/infarction, arterial thrombosis-mesenteric occlusion/cerebral artery strokes) and infection at sites previous dormant during stress (pneumonia, dental and skin abscesses, etc.) In addition, gastro-esophageal reflux is known to lead to aspiration of acidic stomach contents into the lungs, causing “asthma-like” symptoms and sometimes sudden death (e.g. Reggie White of Green Bay Packer fame).”
5grams of extract (based on the generally recognised 15% ibogaine content) is equivalent to 750mg of ibogaine (6=900mg), a very small amount indeed. For a 70kg male = 10,7mg/kg and 12,85 mg/kg respectively. In either case much too low for heroin interruption treatment especially if only 5grams were given.
So I find myself reading the coroners conclusions as basically uninformed and highly speculative as the coroner knew nothing of the amounts of ibogaine/extract needed for addiction treatment and perhaps knew nothing about the complications of withdrawal as stated by Dr. Ed (whose contributions to this list I find “wonderful”).
In this case I think withdrawals of some kind were inevitable and what this report shows about the dangers of ibogaine or the extract itself, as opposed to withdrawing from heroin, is this: nothing. Its quite possibly a big red herring. In fact one could argue that death was due to insufficient ibogaine/extract been given.
Lee
Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
—–Original Message—–
From: Lee Albert [mailto:myeboga@yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: 25 November 2005 16:30
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death:
Nick,
Can you set the record even straighter?
There is some confusion about this death in 2000 due to the extract.
I have heard it reported as:
1. Ate a large meal a few days after treatment, burst a vessel, ruptured the stomach .
and as you state below:
2. Choked on a sandwich somehow dying on his own vomit while left unattended in the toilet.
Hi Lee,
I’ve not heard of the first scenario. It was number 2. I knew the girl who gave the treatment and was at the inquest, both sittings. When the patient began to die paramedics were called and one said that it looked like a stomach burst. This story got propagated about for a while as it was another year until the actual inquest began. The first inquest was adjourned when I pointed out that J had not taken actual ibogaine but rather the Indra iboga extract. Dr Mash was contacted by the pathologist and she confirmed that the blood samples taken show low traces of iboga extract not pure ibogaine. The pathologist’s report put cause of death down to inhalation of vomit, if I recall correctly, but am not 100% on this. The coroner recorded “fatal reaction to t.iboga extract.” Dr Mash was keen that ibogaine itself not be blamed when J had not taken it. A year or so later t.iboga was put on a list of substances due to be controlled in the UK. However the paper never went through, there were 50 or so other herbs on it, and thus iboga is still not scheduled in the UK. (Though supply would likely be an offense).
Are these two sceanarios the same person?
Maybe I need to reread this thread but how exactly does dying from inhaling ones fluids imply that ibogaine/eboga extract is unsafe?
Frankly, if there had been a defense pathologist in court (one defending the iboga extract) I very much doubt that the verdict would have come out the way it did. It’s more that the coroner, Paul Knapp, if I recall, regarded it as his duty to warn the public of any dangerous new substances about (fair enough in a way) and as there was no one there to cross examine the state pathologist he did just that.
Let me know if you need more
Nick
Thanks
Lee
Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Just to set the record straighter, an ibogaine death actually HAS been attributed to vomiting and inhaling associated fluids. JW, Jan 2000 in London, died in this manner after taking 6g of iboga extract to treat long term opiate dependency. Coroner recorded “fatal reaction to t.iboga extract.” He died when left unattended briefly after eating a sandwich some 38 hours after taking the drug.
Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: Matthew Shriver [mailto:matt@itsupport.net]
Sent: 25 November 2005 03:23
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death:
Well having read all of that again I still don’t see where he said “Ibogaine deaths have been attributed to vomiting and inhaling associated fluids”  Maybe it’s all the same to you but in reality you put words into someone else’s mouth.  I don’t even see that idea implied here.  If we are talking about people dying it’s important that we are accurate, misinformation can be as bad as disinformation.  The implication is that death by aspiration could occur in someone undergoing NARCOTIC WITHDRAWAL, not from ibogaine use.
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net]
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 7:58 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death:
Matt, here is a quote:
Edfriedrichs@aol.com wrote:
It is worth noting that Vomiting leading to Aspiration into the Lungs CAN AND DOES CAUSE sudden death (asphyxiation/drowning).  Vomiting is certainly a frequent part of narcotic withdrawal, especially if the stomach is full of food from recent eating.  That is why when someone suffers a convulsive seizure, it is important to prevent vomiting/aspiration and/or obstruction of the air-way by the tongue.  Benzo withdrawal can also cause seizures, sometimes days after stopping valium because valium is “long” acting as a dependency drug.  You can prolong alcohol withdrawal with “too much” benzodiazapine” treatment, because they are a sedative substitute for alcohol.  Those are SOME of the reasons that Withdrawal of any fashion and especially Ibogaine treatments should have a sophisticated helper present thruout, ideally a medically trained one AND no hestitancy to call “911.”  Peace,  Dr. Ed
While looking this up, I found this:
In addition, gastro-esophageal reflux is known to lead to aspiration of acidic stomach contents into the lungs, causing “asthma-like” symptoms and sometimes sudden death (e.g. Reggie White of Green Bay Packer fame).
Seems like he has already answered my idiotic question, I just lost it in the threads. My point was, the threat is not from vomiting, but from reflux. Inhalation CAN and is more likely to occur without the obvious signs of vomiting, a patient can be lying quietly on their back and their stomach just starts draining into their lungs. My intent is to alert caregivers that sudden choking of a benign patient may be indicative of this, and as they will be unable to communicate, (inhaling stomach acid is akin to inhaling a lit propane torch soaked in gasoline) just don’t freak out. Vomiting may come afterwards, after SEVERE gagging, choking and coughing, and vocal chords will be impaired, singed, so to speak, for quite a while. ANYBODY who is “Knocked out” is susceptible to this, not just Ibo patients.
Am I right, Doc?
Geez, I luv you guys, thanx for being here!
Matthew Shriver wrote:
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net]
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 6:59 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death:
What I’m asking is, when you say Ibogaine deaths have been attributed to vomiting and inhaling associated fluids, are you talking about reflux inhalation?
I am pretty sure I never read Dr Ed saying that.
Edfriedrichs@aol.com wrote:
The esophageal sphincter HAS to relax whenever there is vomiting, otherwise the acid and food would stay in the stomach.  Reflux happens easier during reclining sleep, if the esophageal sphincter is weak or permanently ruptured by an “diaphrag-matic hernia” from the abdomen into the chest.   Dr. Ed.
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death:
Date: November 26, 2005 at 6:14:06 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Dr Ed,
Ok. My question is if a provider has a client in the midst of this reflux sceanario what would be the appropriate first aid measures to take?
Thanks
Lee
Edfriedrichs@aol.com wrote:
I have no exact facts to contribute.  To answer your last question, to me, it means Ibogaine should not be given without confident/competent assistance from another.  Dr. Ed
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Giorgio Samorini Discussing Eboga
Date: November 26, 2005 at 12:17:08 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Found this book new on Amazon for 8.63 so I snagged it up! Can’t wait to read it. Sounds very interesting.
Thanks for a heads up Preston.
Peace, Callie
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] On way way home 🙂
Date: November 26, 2005 at 12:04:53 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Brenda! I am so very happy for you that I can’t think of any appropriate words! lol! Girl, you deserve all the best, as we all do, so get out there and GET YOU SOME HAPPINESS!!!
Can’t wait to hear more!
Peace and lots of hugs
Callie
From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death:
Date: November 25, 2005 at 1:34:27 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I have no exact facts to contribute.  To answer your last question, to me, it means Ibogaine should not be given without confident/competent assistance from another.  Dr. Ed
From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death: – Amsterdam Hotel Death
Date: November 25, 2005 at 1:31:09 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Afraid I can’t get the details.  It was the first Ibogaine death I had “heard” about.  Pret-ty sure it was a woman and in Amsterdam, but can’t confirm it.  Dr. Ed
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death:
Date: November 25, 2005 at 12:27:38 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
—–Original Message—–
From: Lee Albert [mailto:myeboga@yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: 25 November 2005 16:30
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death:
Nick,
Can you set the record even straighter?
There is some confusion about this death in 2000 due to the extract.
I have heard it reported as:
1. Ate a large meal a few days after treatment, burst a vessel, ruptured the stomach .
and as you state below:
2. Choked on a sandwich somehow dying on his own vomit while left unattended in the toilet.
Hi Lee,
I’ve not heard of the first scenario. It was number 2. I knew the girl who gave the treatment and was at the inquest, both sittings. When the patient began to die paramedics were called and one said that it looked like a stomach burst. This story got propagated about for a while as it was another year until the actual inquest began. The first inquest was adjourned when I pointed out that J had not taken actual ibogaine but rather the Indra iboga extract. Dr Mash was contacted by the pathologist and she confirmed that the blood samples taken show low traces of iboga extract not pure ibogaine. The pathologist’s report put cause of death down to inhalation of vomit, if I recall correctly, but am not 100% on this. The coroner recorded “fatal reaction to t.iboga extract.” Dr Mash was keen that ibogaine itself not be blamed when J had not taken it. A year or so later t.iboga was put on a list of substances due to be controlled in the UK. However the paper never went through, there were 50 or so other herbs on it, and thus iboga is still not scheduled in the UK. (Though supply would likely be an offense).
Are these two sceanarios the same person?
Maybe I need to reread this thread but how exactly does dying from inhaling ones fluids imply that ibogaine/eboga extract is unsafe?
Frankly, if there had been a defense pathologist in court (one defending the iboga extract) I very much doubt that the verdict would have come out the way it did. It’s more that the coroner, Paul Knapp, if I recall, regarded it as his duty to warn the public of any dangerous new substances about (fair enough in a way) and as there was no one there to cross examine the state pathologist he did just that.
Let me know if you need more
Nick
Thanks
Lee
Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Just to set the record straighter, an ibogaine death actually HAS been attributed to vomiting and inhaling associated fluids. JW, Jan 2000 in London, died in this manner after taking 6g of iboga extract to treat long term opiate dependency. Coroner recorded “fatal reaction to t.iboga extract.” He died when left unattended briefly after eating a sandwich some 38 hours after taking the drug.
Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: Matthew Shriver [mailto:matt@itsupport.net]
Sent: 25 November 2005 03:23
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death:
Well having read all of that again I still don’t see where he said “Ibogaine deaths have been attributed to vomiting and inhaling associated fluids”  Maybe it’s all the same to you but in reality you put words into someone else’s mouth.  I don’t even see that idea implied here.  If we are talking about people dying it’s important that we are accurate, misinformation can be as bad as disinformation.  The implication is that death by aspiration could occur in someone undergoing NARCOTIC WITHDRAWAL, not from ibogaine use.
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net]
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 7:58 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death:
Matt, here is a quote:
Edfriedrichs@aol.com wrote:
It is worth noting that Vomiting leading to Aspiration into the Lungs CAN AND DOES CAUSE sudden death (asphyxiation/drowning).  Vomiting is certainly a frequent part of narcotic withdrawal, especially if the stomach is full of food from recent eating.  That is why when someone suffers a convulsive seizure, it is important to prevent vomiting/aspiration and/or obstruction of the air-way by the tongue.  Benzo withdrawal can also cause seizures, sometimes days after stopping valium because valium is “long” acting as a dependency drug.  You can prolong alcohol withdrawal with “too much” benzodiazapine” treatment, because they are a sedative substitute for alcohol.  Those are SOME of the reasons that Withdrawal of any fashion and especially Ibogaine treatments should have a sophisticated helper present thruout, ideally a medically trained one AND no hestitancy to call “911.”  Peace,  Dr. Ed
While looking this up, I found this:
In addition, gastro-esophageal reflux is known to lead to aspiration of acidic stomach contents into the lungs, causing “asthma-like” symptoms and sometimes sudden death (e.g. Reggie White of Green Bay Packer fame).
Seems like he has already answered my idiotic question, I just lost it in the threads. My point was, the threat is not from vomiting, but from reflux. Inhalation CAN and is more likely to occur without the obvious signs of vomiting, a patient can be lying quietly on their back and their stomach just starts draining into their lungs. My intent is to alert caregivers that sudden choking of a benign patient may be indicative of this, and as they will be unable to communicate, (inhaling stomach acid is akin to inhaling a lit propane torch soaked in gasoline) just don’t freak out. Vomiting may come afterwards, after SEVERE gagging, choking and coughing, and vocal chords will be impaired, singed, so to speak, for quite a while. ANYBODY who is “Knocked out” is susceptible to this, not just Ibo patients.
Am I right, Doc?
Geez, I luv you guys, thanx for being here!
Matthew Shriver wrote:
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net]
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 6:59 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death:
What I’m asking is, when you say Ibogaine deaths have been attributed to vomiting and inhaling associated fluids, are you talking about reflux inhalation?
I am pretty sure I never read Dr Ed saying that.
Edfriedrichs@aol.com wrote:
The esophageal sphincter HAS to relax whenever there is vomiting, otherwise the acid and food would stay in the stomach.  Reflux happens easier during reclining sleep, if the esophageal sphincter is weak or permanently ruptured by an “diaphrag-matic hernia” from the abdomen into the chest.   Dr. Ed.
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
From: “Ibogi Boogie Boogie” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine laws in Japan and Russia
Date: November 25, 2005 at 12:11:11 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Did anyone know the status of Ibogaine in Japan and Russia.?
Thanks you for your help.
Francis
From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death:
Date: November 25, 2005 at 11:29:56 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Nick,
Can you set the record even straighter?
There is some confusion about this death in 2000 due to the extract.
I have heard it reported as:
1. Ate a large meal a few days after treatment, burst a vessel, ruptured the stomach .
and as you state below:
2. Choked on a sandwich somehow dying on his own vomit while left unattended in the toilet.
Are these two sceanarios the same person?
Maybe I need to reread this thread but how exactly does dying from inhaling ones fluids imply that ibogaine/eboga extract is unsafe?
Thanks
Lee
Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Just to set the record straighter, an ibogaine death actually HAS been attributed to vomiting and inhaling associated fluids. JW, Jan 2000 in London, died in this manner after taking 6g of iboga extract to treat long term opiate dependency. Coroner recorded “fatal reaction to t.iboga extract.” He died when left unattended briefly after eating a sandwich some 38 hours after taking the drug.
Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: Matthew Shriver [mailto:matt@itsupport.net]
Sent: 25 November 2005 03:23
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death:
Well having read all of that again I still don’t see where he said “Ibogaine deaths have been attributed to vomiting and inhaling associated fluids”  Maybe it’s all the same to you but in reality you put words into someone else’s mouth.  I don’t even see that idea implied here.  If we are talking about people dying it’s important that we are accurate, misinformation can be as bad as disinformation.  The implication is that death by aspiration could occur in someone undergoing NARCOTIC WITHDRAWAL, not from ibogaine use.
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net]
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 7:58 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death:
Matt, here is a quote:
Edfriedrichs@aol.com wrote:
It is worth noting that Vomiting leading to Aspiration into the Lungs CAN AND DOES CAUSE sudden death (asphyxiation/drowning).  Vomiting is certainly a frequent part of narcotic withdrawal, especially if the stomach is full of food from recent eating.  That is why when someone suffers a convulsive seizure, it is important to prevent vomiting/aspiration and/or obstruction of the air-way by the tongue.  Benzo withdrawal can also cause seizures, sometimes days after stopping valium because valium is “long” acting as a dependency drug.  You can prolong alcohol withdrawal with “too much” benzodiazapine” treatment, because they are a sedative substitute for alcohol.  Those are SOME of the reasons that Withdrawal of any fashion and especially Ibogaine treatments should have a sophisticated helper present thruout, ideally a medically trained one AND no hestitancy to call “911.”  Peace,  Dr. Ed
While looking this up, I found this:
In addition, gastro-esophageal reflux is known to lead to aspiration of acidic stomach contents into the lungs, causing “asthma-like” symptoms and sometimes sudden death (e.g. Reggie White of Green Bay Packer fame).
Seems like he has already answered my idiotic question, I just lost it in the threads. My point was, the threat is not from vomiting, but from reflux. Inhalation CAN and is more likely to occur without the obvious signs of vomiting, a patient can be lying quietly on their back and their stomach just starts draining into their lungs. My intent is to alert caregivers that sudden choking of a benign patient may be indicative of this, and as they will be unable to communicate, (inhaling stomach acid is akin to inhaling a lit propane torch soaked in gasoline) just don’t freak out. Vomiting may come afterwards, after SEVERE gagging, choking and coughing, and vocal chords will be impaired, singed, so to speak, for quite a while. ANYBODY who is “Knocked out” is susceptible to this, not just Ibo patients.
Am I right, Doc?
Geez, I luv you guys, thanx for being here!
Matthew Shriver wrote:
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net]
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 6:59 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death:
What I’m asking is, when you say Ibogaine deaths have been attributed to vomiting and inhaling associated fluids, are you talking about reflux inhalation?
I am pretty sure I never read Dr Ed saying that.
Edfriedrichs@aol.com wrote:
The esophageal sphincter HAS to relax whenever there is vomiting, otherwise the acid and food would stay in the stomach.  Reflux happens easier during reclining sleep, if the esophageal sphincter is weak or permanently ruptured by an “diaphrag-matic hernia” from the abdomen into the chest.   Dr. Ed.
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death:
Date: November 25, 2005 at 11:04:15 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Just to set the record straighter, an ibogaine death actually HAS been attributed to vomiting and inhaling associated fluids. JW, Jan 2000 in London, died in this manner after taking 6g of iboga extract to treat long term opiate dependency. Coroner recorded “fatal reaction to t.iboga extract.” He died when left unattended briefly after eating a sandwich some 38 hours after taking the drug.
Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: Matthew Shriver [mailto:matt@itsupport.net]
Sent: 25 November 2005 03:23
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death:
Well having read all of that again I still don’t see where he said “Ibogaine deaths have been attributed to vomiting and inhaling associated fluids”  Maybe it’s all the same to you but in reality you put words into someone else’s mouth.  I don’t even see that idea implied here.  If we are talking about people dying it’s important that we are accurate, misinformation can be as bad as disinformation.  The implication is that death by aspiration could occur in someone undergoing NARCOTIC WITHDRAWAL, not from ibogaine use.
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net] 
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 7:58 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death:
Matt, here is a quote:
Edfriedrichs@aol.com wrote:
It is worth noting that Vomiting leading to Aspiration into the Lungs CAN AND DOES CAUSE sudden death (asphyxiation/drowning).  Vomiting is certainly a frequent part of narcotic withdrawal, especially if the stomach is full of food from recent eating.  That is why when someone suffers a convulsive seizure, it is important to prevent vomiting/aspiration and/or obstruction of the air-way by the tongue.  Benzo withdrawal can also cause seizures, sometimes days after stopping valium because valium is “long” acting as a dependency drug.  You can prolong alcohol withdrawal with “too much” benzodiazapine” treatment, because they are a sedative substitute for alcohol.  Those are SOME of the reasons that Withdrawal of any fashion and especially Ibogaine treatments should have a sophisticated helper present thruout, ideally a medically trained one AND no hestitancy to call “911.”  Peace,  Dr. Ed

While looking this up, I found this:
In addition, gastro-esophageal reflux is known to lead to aspiration of acidic stomach contents into the lungs, causing “asthma-like” symptoms and sometimes sudden death (e.g. Reggie White of Green Bay Packer fame).

Seems like he has already answered my idiotic question, I just lost it in the threads. My point was, the threat is not from vomiting, but from reflux. Inhalation CAN and is more likely to occur without the obvious signs of vomiting, a patient can be lying quietly on their back and their stomach just starts draining into their lungs. My intent is to alert caregivers that sudden choking of a benign patient may be indicative of this, and as they will be unable to communicate, (inhaling stomach acid is akin to inhaling a lit propane torch soaked in gasoline) just don’t freak out. Vomiting may come afterwards, after SEVERE gagging, choking and coughing, and vocal chords will be impaired, singed, so to speak, for quite a while. ANYBODY who is “Knocked out” is susceptible to this, not just Ibo patients. 

Am I right, Doc?

Geez, I luv you guys, thanx for being here!   

Matthew Shriver wrote:
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net] 
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 6:59 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death:

What I’m asking is, when you say Ibogaine deaths have been attributed to vomiting and inhaling associated fluids, are you talking about reflux inhalation?

I am pretty sure I never read Dr Ed saying that.

Edfriedrichs@aol.com wrote:
The esophageal sphincter HAS to relax whenever there is vomiting, otherwise the acid and food would stay in the stomach.  Reflux happens easier during reclining sleep, if the esophageal sphincter is weak or permanently ruptured by an “diaphrag-matic hernia” from the abdomen into the chest.   Dr. Ed.
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death: – Amsterdam Hotel Death
Date: November 25, 2005 at 11:02:36 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Dr Ed,
Can you post a link to the death you are referring to and if I may be so dumb, suggest how it could have better been handled.
Thanks
Lee
Edfriedrichs@aol.com wrote:
It certainly is a possibility.  There was a Ibogaine treated woman’s death in an Amsterdam hotel room that sounded to me like an aspiration death from reflux.  It is rare, but very possible.
Most aspiration just causes cough/wheezing and then goes away fairly quickly.  How-ever a lot of “community acquired pneumonia” probably starts this way, because 50% of “community acquired pneumonia” doesn’t grow an organism when the sputum is cultured.  Dr. Ed
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death:
Date: November 25, 2005 at 12:16:15 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Thanx to all you folks, for taking this seriously……it is!  Peace, Dr. Ed
From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death:
Date: November 25, 2005 at 12:09:31 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Yep, Matt, you’re right! completely right!  Dr. Ed
From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death:
Date: November 25, 2005 at 12:06:58 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
It certainly is a possibility.  There was a Ibogaine treated woman’s death in an Amsterdam hotel room that sounded to me like an aspiration death from reflux.  It is rare, but very possible.
Most aspiration just causes cough/wheezing and then goes away fairly quickly.  How-ever a lot of “community acquired pneumonia” probably starts this way, because 50% of “community acquired pneumonia” doesn’t grow an organism when the sputum is cultured.  Dr. Ed
From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] To SuperBee:
Date: November 25, 2005 at 12:03:28 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Vomiting when you’re awake allows you to cough out what might be aspirated, but “Reflux” when asleep, especially when extremely tired, you may not be awake enough to cough it out.  They both are similar in that stomach contents come UP, and pass by the trachea, when they can be aspirated.  Probably depends mostly upon one’s alertness to recognize vomitus in the pharynx/windpipe, so that you can cough.  Much “nocturnal asthma” is reflux into the trachea (wind pipe) and an individual awakens coughing/wheezing.  ALL asthmatics should sleep “uphill” with six inch blocks under the feet at the head of the bed.  Just using pillows bends you in your middle, and makes reflux happen more readily.  If you have awakened by Reflux, the “bed blocks” would be a good idea to prevent the danger of aspiration.  Most asthmatics aren’t even aware this is happening.  Most allergists treating “asthma” also don’t recognize this, especially when asthma starts in “middle age.”  Peace.  Dr. Ed
From: Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death:
Date: November 24, 2005 at 11:40:33 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Remove the “For” in the last sentence, oops, my bad
Don Patton wrote:
The thread was Ibogaine deaths, I wanted to alert ANYBODY about reflux, Ibo associated or not. Reggie White didn’t die from Ibo, as the good Dr. pointed out. Far be it from me to put words in Dr.Friedrichs mouth, I just wanted to point out that reflux should be a consideration  with ANYBODY caring for an incapacated individual. I think I have done that, and as for you, “Excuse the hell outta me”.  If one person reads this and their partner wakes up choking and has an glimmer into what’s going on, this entire discussion will have been worthwhile.
I have done this, after killing a half-gallon of Scotch, passing out, then inhaling the contents of my stomach. There was no “Vomiting” involved. I wish it would have been that easy. The gagging, the choking, I came out of a self-induced coma fighting for my life. I couldn’t talk for three days. Alcohol, and I suspect opiates, relax the ES. The implication, without you putting words into my mouth, is that death by aspiration can occur in ANY individual impaired below sobriety, withdrawal or not.
Lighten up, dude, we were discussing deaths during treatment, not inevitible outcomes. People die. Inhaling dinner might be one of those things we can  expect and prepare for, and in an intense situation, the knowledge for a caregiver has might keep a bad situation from turning into a panic situation.
Matthew Shriver wrote:
Well having read all of that again I still don’t see where he said “Ibogaine deaths have been attributed to vomiting and inhaling associated fluids”  Maybe it’s all the same to you but in reality you put words into someone else’s mouth.  I don’t even see that idea implied here.  If we are talking about people dying it’s important that we are accurate, misinformation can be as bad as disinformation.  The implication is that death by aspiration could occur in someone undergoing NARCOTIC WITHDRAWAL, not from ibogaine use.
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net] 
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 7:58 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death:
Matt, here is a quote:
Edfriedrichs@aol.com wrote:
It is worth noting that Vomiting leading to Aspiration into the Lungs CAN AND DOES CAUSE sudden death (asphyxiation/drowning).  Vomiting is certainly a frequent part of narcotic withdrawal, especially if the stomach is full of food from recent eating.  That is why when someone suffers a convulsive seizure, it is important to prevent vomiting/aspiration and/or obstruction of the air-way by the tongue.  Benzo withdrawal can also cause seizures, sometimes days after stopping valium because valium is “long” acting as a dependency drug.  You can prolong alcohol withdrawal with “too much” benzodiazapine” treatment, because they are a sedative substitute for alcohol.  Those are SOME of the reasons that Withdrawal of any fashion and especially Ibogaine treatments should have a sophisticated helper present thruout, ideally a medically trained one AND no hestitancy to call “911.”  Peace,  Dr. Ed

While looking this up, I found this:
In addition, gastro-esophageal reflux is known to lead to aspiration of acidic stomach contents into the lungs, causing “asthma-like” symptoms and sometimes sudden death (e.g. Reggie White of Green Bay Packer fame).

Seems like he has already answered my idiotic question, I just lost it in the threads. My point was, the threat is not from vomiting, but from reflux. Inhalation CAN and is more likely to occur without the obvious signs of vomiting, a patient can be lying quietly on their back and their stomach just starts draining into their lungs. My intent is to alert caregivers that sudden choking of a benign patient may be indicative of this, and as they will be unable to communicate, (inhaling stomach acid is akin to inhaling a lit propane torch soaked in gasoline) just don’t freak out. Vomiting may come afterwards, after SEVERE gagging, choking and coughing, and vocal chords will be impaired, singed, so to speak, for quite a while. ANYBODY who is “Knocked out” is susceptible to this, not just Ibo patients. 

Am I right, Doc?

Geez, I luv you guys, thanx for being here!   

Matthew Shriver wrote:
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net] 
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 6:59 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death:

What I’m asking is, when you say Ibogaine deaths have been attributed to vomiting and inhaling associated fluids, are you talking about reflux inhalation?

I am pretty sure I never read Dr Ed saying that.

Edfriedrichs@aol.com wrote:
The esophageal sphincter HAS to relax whenever there is vomiting, otherwise the acid and food would stay in the stomach.  Reflux happens easier during reclining sleep, if the esophageal sphincter is weak or permanently ruptured by an “diaphrag-matic hernia” from the abdomen into the chest.   Dr. Ed.
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From: Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death:
Date: November 24, 2005 at 11:36:41 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
The thread was Ibogaine deaths, I wanted to alert ANYBODY about reflux, Ibo associated or not. Reggie White didn’t die from Ibo, as the good Dr. pointed out. Far be it from me to put words in Dr.Friedrichs mouth, I just wanted to point out that reflux should be a consideration  with ANYBODY caring for an incapacated individual. I think I have done that, and as for you, “Excuse the hell outta me”.  If one person reads this and their partner wakes up choking and has an glimmer into what’s going on, this entire discussion will have been worthwhile.
I have done this, after killing a half-gallon of Scotch, passing out, then inhaling the contents of my stomach. There was no “Vomiting” involved. I wish it would have been that easy. The gagging, the choking, I came out of a self-induced coma fighting for my life. I couldn’t talk for three days. Alcohol, and I suspect opiates, relax the ES. The implication, without you putting words into my mouth, is that death by aspiration can occur in ANY individual impaired below sobriety, withdrawal or not.
Lighten up, dude, we were discussing deaths during treatment, not inevitible outcomes. People die. Inhaling dinner might be one of those things we can  expect and prepare for, and in an intense situation, the knowledge for a caregiver has might keep a bad situation from turning into a panic situation.
Matthew Shriver wrote:
Well having read all of that again I still don’t see where he said “Ibogaine deaths have been attributed to vomiting and inhaling associated fluids”  Maybe it’s all the same to you but in reality you put words into someone else’s mouth.  I don’t even see that idea implied here.  If we are talking about people dying it’s important that we are accurate, misinformation can be as bad as disinformation.  The implication is that death by aspiration could occur in someone undergoing NARCOTIC WITHDRAWAL, not from ibogaine use.
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net] 
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 7:58 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death:
Matt, here is a quote:
Edfriedrichs@aol.com wrote:
It is worth noting that Vomiting leading to Aspiration into the Lungs CAN AND DOES CAUSE sudden death (asphyxiation/drowning).  Vomiting is certainly a frequent part of narcotic withdrawal, especially if the stomach is full of food from recent eating.  That is why when someone suffers a convulsive seizure, it is important to prevent vomiting/aspiration and/or obstruction of the air-way by the tongue.  Benzo withdrawal can also cause seizures, sometimes days after stopping valium because valium is “long” acting as a dependency drug.  You can prolong alcohol withdrawal with “too much” benzodiazapine” treatment, because they are a sedative substitute for alcohol.  Those are SOME of the reasons that Withdrawal of any fashion and especially Ibogaine treatments should have a sophisticated helper present thruout, ideally a medically trained one AND no hestitancy to call “911.”  Peace,  Dr. Ed

While looking this up, I found this:
In addition, gastro-esophageal reflux is known to lead to aspiration of acidic stomach contents into the lungs, causing “asthma-like” symptoms and sometimes sudden death (e.g. Reggie White of Green Bay Packer fame).

Seems like he has already answered my idiotic question, I just lost it in the threads. My point was, the threat is not from vomiting, but from reflux. Inhalation CAN and is more likely to occur without the obvious signs of vomiting, a patient can be lying quietly on their back and their stomach just starts draining into their lungs. My intent is to alert caregivers that sudden choking of a benign patient may be indicative of this, and as they will be unable to communicate, (inhaling stomach acid is akin to inhaling a lit propane torch soaked in gasoline) just don’t freak out. Vomiting may come afterwards, after SEVERE gagging, choking and coughing, and vocal chords will be impaired, singed, so to speak, for quite a while. ANYBODY who is “Knocked out” is susceptible to this, not just Ibo patients. 

Am I right, Doc?

Geez, I luv you guys, thanx for being here!   

Matthew Shriver wrote:
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net] 
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 6:59 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death:

What I’m asking is, when you say Ibogaine deaths have been attributed to vomiting and inhaling associated fluids, are you talking about reflux inhalation?

I am pretty sure I never read Dr Ed saying that.

Edfriedrichs@aol.com wrote:
The esophageal sphincter HAS to relax whenever there is vomiting, otherwise the acid and food would stay in the stomach.  Reflux happens easier during reclining sleep, if the esophageal sphincter is weak or permanently ruptured by an “diaphrag-matic hernia” from the abdomen into the chest.   Dr. Ed.
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From: “Matthew Shriver” <matt@itsupport.net>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death:
Date: November 24, 2005 at 10:23:29 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Well having read all of that again I still don’t see where he said “Ibogaine deaths have been attributed to vomiting and inhaling associated fluids”  Maybe it’s all the same to you but in reality you put words into someone else’s mouth.  I don’t even see that idea implied here.  If we are talking about people dying it’s important that we are accurate, misinformation can be as bad as disinformation.  The implication is that death by aspiration could occur in someone undergoing NARCOTIC WITHDRAWAL, not from ibogaine use.
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net] 
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 7:58 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death:
Matt, here is a quote:
Edfriedrichs@aol.com wrote:
It is worth noting that Vomiting leading to Aspiration into the Lungs CAN AND DOES CAUSE sudden death (asphyxiation/drowning).  Vomiting is certainly a frequent part of narcotic withdrawal, especially if the stomach is full of food from recent eating.  That is why when someone suffers a convulsive seizure, it is important to prevent vomiting/aspiration and/or obstruction of the air-way by the tongue.  Benzo withdrawal can also cause seizures, sometimes days after stopping valium because valium is “long” acting as a dependency drug.  You can prolong alcohol withdrawal with “too much” benzodiazapine” treatment, because they are a sedative substitute for alcohol.  Those are SOME of the reasons that Withdrawal of any fashion and especially Ibogaine treatments should have a sophisticated helper present thruout, ideally a medically trained one AND no hestitancy to call “911.”  Peace,  Dr. Ed

While looking this up, I found this:
In addition, gastro-esophageal reflux is known to lead to aspiration of acidic stomach contents into the lungs, causing “asthma-like” symptoms and sometimes sudden death (e.g. Reggie White of Green Bay Packer fame).

Seems like he has already answered my idiotic question, I just lost it in the threads. My point was, the threat is not from vomiting, but from reflux. Inhalation CAN and is more likely to occur without the obvious signs of vomiting, a patient can be lying quietly on their back and their stomach just starts draining into their lungs. My intent is to alert caregivers that sudden choking of a benign patient may be indicative of this, and as they will be unable to communicate, (inhaling stomach acid is akin to inhaling a lit propane torch soaked in gasoline) just don’t freak out. Vomiting may come afterwards, after SEVERE gagging, choking and coughing, and vocal chords will be impaired, singed, so to speak, for quite a while. ANYBODY who is “Knocked out” is susceptible to this, not just Ibo patients. 

Am I right, Doc?

Geez, I luv you guys, thanx for being here!   

Matthew Shriver wrote:
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net] 
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 6:59 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death:

What I’m asking is, when you say Ibogaine deaths have been attributed to vomiting and inhaling associated fluids, are you talking about reflux inhalation?

I am pretty sure I never read Dr Ed saying that.

Edfriedrichs@aol.com wrote:
The esophageal sphincter HAS to relax whenever there is vomiting, otherwise the acid and food would stay in the stomach.  Reflux happens easier during reclining sleep, if the esophageal sphincter is weak or permanently ruptured by an “diaphrag-matic hernia” from the abdomen into the chest.   Dr. Ed.
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
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From: Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death:
Date: November 24, 2005 at 9:57:45 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Matt, here is a quote:
Edfriedrichs@aol.com wrote:
It is worth noting that Vomiting leading to Aspiration into the Lungs CAN AND DOES CAUSE sudden death (asphyxiation/drowning).  Vomiting is certainly a frequent part of narcotic withdrawal, especially if the stomach is full of food from recent eating.  That is why when someone suffers a convulsive seizure, it is important to prevent vomiting/aspiration and/or obstruction of the air-way by the tongue.  Benzo withdrawal can also cause seizures, sometimes days after stopping valium because valium is “long” acting as a dependency drug.  You can prolong alcohol withdrawal with “too much” benzodiazapine” treatment, because they are a sedative substitute for alcohol.  Those are SOME of the reasons that Withdrawal of any fashion and especially Ibogaine treatments should have a sophisticated helper present thruout, ideally a medically trained one AND no hestitancy to call “911.”  Peace,  Dr. Ed
While looking this up, I found this:
In addition, gastro-esophageal reflux is known to lead to aspiration of acidic stomach contents into the lungs, causing “asthma-like” symptoms and sometimes sudden death (e.g. Reggie White of Green Bay Packer fame).
Seems like he has already answered my idiotic question, I just lost it in the threads. My point was, the threat is not from vomiting, but from reflux. Inhalation CAN and is more likely to occur without the obvious signs of vomiting, a patient can be lying quietly on their back and their stomach just starts draining into their lungs. My intent is to alert caregivers that sudden choking of a benign patient may be indicative of this, and as they will be unable to communicate, (inhaling stomach acid is akin to inhaling a lit propane torch soaked in gasoline) just don’t freak out. Vomiting may come afterwards, after SEVERE gagging, choking and coughing, and vocal chords will be impaired, singed, so to speak, for quite a while. ANYBODY who is “Knocked out” is susceptible to this, not just Ibo patients.
Am I right, Doc?
Geez, I luv you guys, thanx for being here!
Matthew Shriver wrote:
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net] 
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 6:59 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death:

What I’m asking is, when you say Ibogaine deaths have been attributed to vomiting and inhaling associated fluids, are you talking about reflux inhalation?

I am pretty sure I never read Dr Ed saying that.

Edfriedrichs@aol.com wrote:
The esophageal sphincter HAS to relax whenever there is vomiting, otherwise the acid and food would stay in the stomach.  Reflux happens easier during reclining sleep, if the esophageal sphincter is weak or permanently ruptured by an “diaphrag-matic hernia” from the abdomen into the chest.   Dr. Ed.
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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] On way way home 🙂
Date: November 24, 2005 at 9:31:41 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Yeah Brenda,
Yeeha,…thanks for sharing. Congratulations on a successful journey.
Did you see anyone that had passed on,..I understand you saw loved ones.
Were they all people that are stll alive, or did you see or communicate with
some that had passed over,..gone home?
                                          with love, Jasen
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From: “Matthew Shriver” <matt@itsupport.net>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death:
Date: November 24, 2005 at 9:22:57 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net] 
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 6:59 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death:

What I’m asking is, when you say Ibogaine deaths have been attributed to vomiting and inhaling associated fluids, are you talking about reflux inhalation?

I am pretty sure I never read Dr Ed saying that.

Edfriedrichs@aol.com wrote:
The esophageal sphincter HAS to relax whenever there is vomiting, otherwise the acid and food would stay in the stomach.  Reflux happens easier during reclining sleep, if the esophageal sphincter is weak or permanently ruptured by an “diaphrag-matic hernia” from the abdomen into the chest.   Dr. Ed.
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death:
Date: November 24, 2005 at 8:59:15 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Dude, when I’m vomiting, ain’t NOTHING relaxed, hahaha! More like overcome! I was talking about when you are asleep, passed out, and your stomach contents just kinda flow upwards and get inhaled in an incapicitated state. Isn’t that different from vomiting? I’m not arguing, I just want to get my semantics correct, isn’t reflux and vomiting two different things? I thought vomiting included stomach convulsions, reflux did not.
I have woke up choking on stomach acid, vomiting means I’m scrubbing half-digested turkey and peas offa my dresser and outta the carpet. Kinda pisses off the ol’ lady.
Aren’t the stomach convulsions MEANT to overcome the E.S.?
What I’m asking is, when you say Ibogaine deaths have been attributed to vomiting and inhaling associated fluids, are you talking about reflux inhalation?
Please be patient with me, I just want to get this straight.
Edfriedrichs@aol.com wrote:
The esophageal sphincter HAS to relax whenever there is vomiting, otherwise the acid and food would stay in the stomach.  Reflux happens easier during reclining sleep, if the esophageal sphincter is weak or permanently ruptured by an “diaphrag-matic hernia” from the abdomen into the chest.   Dr. Ed.
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Off Topic: World Communit Grid – HIV
Date: November 24, 2005 at 8:24:54 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hiya Slow,
Thanks for responding, you seem to have taken a personal interest in WHATEVER I rant about, thank you and I appreciate it.
This is from the “Folding at Home” website:
“HOW ARE THESE NEW ADVANCES POSSIBLE?
In order to make breakthroughs using distributed computing, new methods are critical. Distributed computing is an unusual way to perform large-scale calculations. While it gives computer resources much greater than a typical supercomputer (e.g. the almost 200,000 actively processing CPUs in FAH vs. 5,000 in a typical supercomputer), these processors are connected by the Internet, not the high speed, low latency interconnects found in supercomputers. Thus, we must develop new methods to use FAH’s unusual computational paradigm and capabilities. Moreover, these methods must be tested.
Much of our work in the first years of FAH has been to develop and test these methods on model systems: small proteins which can be easily studied experimentally. With these experimental comparisons, we can test and validate our methods, as well as find out their limitations (which is critical for improving our methods).
To date, FAH has been very successful, with over 25 published works in the first five years directly stemming from FAH calculations (and lots more on the way). We will continue to work on all fronts: new scientific cores, new server side algorithms, new models for proteins, and new questions related to testing our methods and applications to disease and other biomedical questions.”.
This is what I don’t understand, 200k computers mystically linked over the Internet with basically a Trojan installed, can figure out more than a 5 THOUSAND processor Supercomputer. All antivirus software must be disabled, as well a tremendous I/O firewall breach must be maintained. And the upside? Curing cancer, AIDS, alzheimers, kinda Holy Grail type of stuff, but MY computer is my life, and to compromise that by basically leaving gaping holes in my defense system seems a little, well, uh, being polite here, less than an educated move.
And this, “these processors are connected by the Internet, not the high speed, low latency interconnects found in supercomputers.” Last I checked, ANY connection INSIDE of a computer kinda beat the hell out of any Internet connection, and any attempt to lead me not to think so raises numerous red flags.
I just really doubt that the cure for cancer is gonna be figured out by MY computer, in it’s spare time, with one processor, faster or even assisting a 5,000 processor supercomputer with the Internet bottleneck in place. I wish it were so, common sense interdicts.
Bee
slowone@hush.ai wrote:
On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 15:28:16 -0800 Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
wrote:
Not to be crass, but I have always been skeptical about these. Any
mathematical equation only needs one computer, and cannot harness
data from drones.
Why do you think this is the case? Virtually all powerful computers
nowadays work in exactly this manner.
What they CAN do is spam to the n’th degree.
This is certainly true. It would be big news if it actually
happened with one of the science projects.
I decline.
darkmattersfo@comcast.net wrote:
There is a “World Community Grid” reseach project that uses
personal pc’s all over the world to perform computational research
to design new anti-HIV drugs based on molecular structure.
A small applet is loaded onto your PC and runs in the back
ground. As results are produced they are loaded back up to a
research mainframe. By using this type of distributed computing
researchers are able to process large amounts of data in a much
shorter time. This type of computing has been around and has
been/is being used to: Solve complex mathematical problems, seach
for extra-terrestrial live, smallpox research, etc.
There are currently over 100,000 people participating in this
particular project all over the world. The goal is to get 500,000
involved.
http://www.worldcommunitygrid.org/projects_showcase/viewFaahResear
ch.do
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Concerned about your privacy? Instantly send FREE secure email, no account required
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From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death:
Date: November 24, 2005 at 7:59:11 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
The esophageal sphincter HAS to relax whenever there is vomiting, otherwise the acid and food would stay in the stomach.  Reflux happens easier during reclining sleep, if the esophageal sphincter is weak or permanently ruptured by an “diaphrag-matic hernia” from the abdomen into the chest.   Dr. Ed.
From: Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] On way way home 🙂
Date: November 24, 2005 at 7:26:36 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Brenda,
SOOOO happy for you!! AND Proud of you as well, please keep us informed!!
Luv ya–
Don
shakti@photon.net wrote:
Hello again!
I wanted to share a few highlights of my Ibgaine experience with you,
mostly things I want to keep fresh in my mind.  I am enjoying my cleansed
feeling state so much, I’ll be off the computer for a while 🙂
I ingested 14 (grams?)  whatever the amount is weighed in and I weight
about 120.  My session was intense and difficult for the first ten hours. I knew my ego was resisting – it did not want to let the feelings that had
been repressed for however long to surface.  Then for 2 hours it was
basically a countdown between ego surrendering first or Iboga coming in
full force.   I started seeing pictures of the Dalai Lama, my BF, Scott,
they were smiling.  Scott eyes were shining bright and they had this
loving, supportive energy that he was beaming down to me.
In one moment, I had to close my eyes and and a bright light flashed like
then a laser beamed down and scanned rings of electro-buzzing energy
scanned my whole body from head to toe.  Then a huge wave of energy rolled
through my body.  Tears started pouring out of my eyes, I would get more
visions of people that I cared about, mostly family, I saw my mother lying
in her bed crying, then I would get smaller waves of emotional release,
then tears, this went on for hours.
Then the deep stuff came.  At this point the little screen projected a
couple feet in front if me and I saw those memories that I had not been
able to make sense of in my life that were trapped inside me.  More waves.
I was totally surrendered.  Scott’s picture was way over to the right, a
lot bigger than the little life pictures screen.
I also was taken to bigger views of the planet and the nature of
consciousness.  The waves got farther in between and then Pure Presence
arose within me and I knew myself as pure Awareness.  I was able to view
my mind…a still lake as clear as glass.  I started dropping little
pebbles and watching the smooth ripples then it would be still and clear
again.  I was aware of my ego to the left of this and everything else
around was Presence.  I started realizing that I was free and I kept
saying it over and over.  Feelings kept coming up and this went on for a
long time.  I saw myself in our garden seeing everything like for the
first time – a flower, my BF, the house and  my cats.  I was in compete
awe of the life-force that animates everything.
I realized that my deep intention was that I wanted to know Truth.  For
me, I believe I have had a glimpse of what I wanted to know.  I feel like
I have emerged at a new level and I can’t wait to see my BF!  I swear I
feel like I am on my way to a honeymoon in my relationship and in my life.
I plan on taking this energy and building a new foundation for my life.
A lot more happened and many synchronicities occurred before and after.  I
wish everyone a great day and Happy Thanksgiving if you are having that –
I will be on an airplane going home.  I want to express my gratitude for
the people that reached out to me and helped me get to this point.
Talk to ya soon,
Brenda 🙂
———————————————————–
WebMail provided by Photon.Net – http://www.photon.net/
Nationwide internet access, thousands of dial-up numbers!
Web hosting, multimedia broadcasting, e-commerce, and more.
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From: Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death:
Date: November 24, 2005 at 6:20:11 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Isn’t relaxation of the esophageal sphincter the main reason for aspiration? Usually during sleep? That’s not vomiting. Correct me if I am misinformed. Thanx!!
Edfriedrichs@aol.com wrote:
It is worth noting that Vomiting leading to Aspiration into the Lungs CAN AND DOES CAUSE sudden death (asphyxiation/drowning).  Vomiting is certainly a frequent part of narcotic withdrawal, especially if the stomach is full of food from recent eating.  That is why when someone suffers a convulsive seizure, it is important to prevent vomiting/aspiration and/or obstruction of the air-way by the tongue.  Benzo withdrawal can also cause seizures, sometimes days after stopping valium because valium is “long” acting as a dependency drug.  You can prolong alcohol withdrawal with “too much” benzodiazapine” treatment, because they are a sedative substitute for alcohol.  Those are SOME of the reasons that Withdrawal of any fashion and especially Ibogaine treatments should have a sophisticated helper present thruout, ideally a medically trained one AND no hestitancy to call “911.”  Peace,  Dr. Ed
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] On way way home 🙂
Date: November 24, 2005 at 3:30:21 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Wicked!!!!!
You have no idea how happy i am to hear that!!!!
Just remember that right now everything lies in your hands—not ibogas—–now its up to you to cultivate that over all wellness
it will diminish as time goes by so BE-CAREFULL that you dont loose it!!!!!!
Have a plan when the cravings come on…..becuase when they come they come on with a full vengance
with love
matt
From: “Matthew Shriver” <matt@itsupport.net>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] On way way home 🙂
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 09:53:05 -0700
Awesome Brenda. I don’t mean to make those who haven’t taken it feel apart
from by saying this, but welcome to the club so to speak. I related to so
much of what you mentioned from my own experiences. The ego vs ibo thing,
the mind like clear glass feeling, all of the emotional imagery stuff, the
presence of awareness, and the glimpse of ultimate truth are all elements I
have experienced in one way or another in my ibogaine sessions. I’m glad
you got such good results and look forward to hearing how you do going
forward.
Matt
—–Original Message—–
From: shakti@photon.net [mailto:shakti@photon.net]
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 5:54 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] On way way home 🙂
Hello again!
I wanted to share a few highlights of my Ibgaine experience with you,
mostly things I want to keep fresh in my mind. I am enjoying my cleansed
feeling state so much, I’ll be off the computer for a while 🙂
I ingested 14 (grams?) whatever the amount is weighed in and I weight
about 120. My session was intense and difficult for the first ten hours.
I knew my ego was resisting – it did not want to let the feelings that had
been repressed for however long to surface. Then for 2 hours it was
basically a countdown between ego surrendering first or Iboga coming in
full force. I started seeing pictures of the Dalai Lama, my BF, Scott,
they were smiling. Scott eyes were shining bright and they had this
loving, supportive energy that he was beaming down to me.
In one moment, I had to close my eyes and and a bright light flashed like
then a laser beamed down and scanned rings of electro-buzzing energy
scanned my whole body from head to toe. Then a huge wave of energy rolled
through my body. Tears started pouring out of my eyes, I would get more
visions of people that I cared about, mostly family, I saw my mother lying
in her bed crying, then I would get smaller waves of emotional release,
then tears, this went on for hours.
Then the deep stuff came. At this point the little screen projected a
couple feet in front if me and I saw those memories that I had not been
able to make sense of in my life that were trapped inside me. More waves.
I was totally surrendered. Scott’s picture was way over to the right, a
lot bigger than the little life pictures screen.
I also was taken to bigger views of the planet and the nature of
consciousness. The waves got farther in between and then Pure Presence
arose within me and I knew myself as pure Awareness. I was able to view
my mind…a still lake as clear as glass. I started dropping little
pebbles and watching the smooth ripples then it would be still and clear
again. I was aware of my ego to the left of this and everything else
around was Presence. I started realizing that I was free and I kept
saying it over and over. Feelings kept coming up and this went on for a
long time. I saw myself in our garden seeing everything like for the
first time – a flower, my BF, the house and my cats. I was in compete
awe of the life-force that animates everything.
I realized that my deep intention was that I wanted to know Truth. For
me, I believe I have had a glimpse of what I wanted to know. I feel like
I have emerged at a new level and I can’t wait to see my BF! I swear I
feel like I am on my way to a honeymoon in my relationship and in my life.
I plan on taking this energy and building a new foundation for my life.
A lot more happened and many synchronicities occurred before and after. I
wish everyone a great day and Happy Thanksgiving if you are having that –
I will be on an airplane going home. I want to express my gratitude for
the people that reached out to me and helped me get to this point.
Talk to ya soon,
Brenda 🙂
———————————————————–
WebMail provided by Photon.Net – http://www.photon.net/
Nationwide internet access, thousands of dial-up numbers!
Web hosting, multimedia broadcasting, e-commerce, and more.
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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Help protect your PC with Virus Guard from MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal Death:
Date: November 24, 2005 at 3:17:41 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
It is worth noting that Vomiting leading to Aspiration into the Lungs CAN AND DOES CAUSE sudden death (asphyxiation/drowning).  Vomiting is certainly a frequent part of narcotic withdrawal, especially if the stomach is full of food from recent eating.  That is why when someone suffers a convulsive seizure, it is important to prevent vomiting/aspiration and/or obstruction of the air-way by the tongue.  Benzo withdrawal can also cause seizures, sometimes days after stopping valium because valium is “long” acting as a dependency drug.  You can prolong alcohol withdrawal with “too much” benzodiazapine” treatment, because they are a sedative substitute for alcohol.  Those are SOME of the reasons that Withdrawal of any fashion and especially Ibogaine treatments should have a sophisticated helper present thruout, ideally a medically trained one AND no hestitancy to call “911.”  Peace,  Dr. Ed
From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Debunking ibogaine
Date: November 24, 2005 at 2:36:52 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Preston Peet wrote:
Re: [Ibogaine] Debunking ibogaineI’d always heard alcohol was THE only drug that could literally kill you as a direct result of the withdrawals. I could be mistaken, but I did learn it in a 28-dayw program, and we all know how reliable they are when it comes to addiction and drug use
Yuppers… well, both alcohol and barbitruate withdrawal are about equally dangerous as far as risk of seizure and death.
About 5% of people will experience delerium tremens (DTs) during alcohol withdrawal. Of people who experience DTs, about 35% will die without medical attention, while a little less than 5% will die if they receive medical treament (usually in the form of benzodiazapines or other anti-convulsants).
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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Off Topic: World Communit Grid – HIV
Date: November 24, 2005 at 2:10:26 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 15:28:16 -0800 Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
wrote:
Not to be crass, but I have always been skeptical about these. Any
mathematical equation only needs one computer, and cannot harness
data from drones.
Why do you think this is the case? Virtually all powerful computers
nowadays work in exactly this manner.
What they CAN do is spam to the n’th degree.
This is certainly true. It would be big news if it actually
happened with one of the science projects.
I decline.
darkmattersfo@comcast.net wrote:
There is a “World Community Grid” reseach project that uses
personal pc’s all over the world to perform computational research
to design new anti-HIV drugs based on molecular structure.
A small applet is loaded onto your PC and runs in the back
ground. As results are produced they are loaded back up to a
research mainframe. By using this type of distributed computing
researchers are able to process large amounts of data in a much
shorter time. This type of computing has been around and has
been/is being used to: Solve complex mathematical problems, seach
for extra-terrestrial live, smallpox research, etc.
There are currently over 100,000 people participating in this
particular project all over the world. The goal is to get 500,000
involved.
http://www.worldcommunitygrid.org/projects_showcase/viewFaahResear
ch.do
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Concerned about your privacy? Instantly send FREE secure email, no account required
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Get the best prices on SSL certificates from Hushmail
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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] happy turkey day from tink
Date: November 24, 2005 at 1:41:01 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hello all, and how do you all do!!
Believe it or not, all is well, and I have been good.  just
sequestered by choice and financial necessity.  I’m working hard and
writing lots, but am not currently online, so I rarely have the
opportunity to access youse guys.
I love you all, and will be online soon…
tink
 /]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: darkmattersfo@comcast.net
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] On way way home 🙂
Date: November 24, 2005 at 1:30:44 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Brenda, congratulations on making it to this side of the metaphorical river. I read much in your description that I can relate to, especially the more global view and consciousness.
The buzzing you mentioned I experienced as quite unpleasant, kind of like a lawnmower going through my brain, but in the end it was all for the best.
I hope your session will provide you with long term results. I know mine did. I did have a follow up “mini” session and it helped alot as well.
I am glad you are safe and made it through ok.
Mark 🙂
Hello again!
I wanted to share a few highlights of my Ibgaine experience with you,
mostly things I want to keep fresh in my mind.  I am enjoying my cleansed
feeling state so much, I’ll be off the computer for a while 🙂
I ingested 14 (grams?)  whatever the amount is weighed in and I weight
about 120.  My session was intense and difficult for the first ten hours.
I knew my ego was resisting – it did not want to let the feelings that had
been repressed for however long to surface.  Then for 2 hours it was
basically a countdown between ego surrendering first or Iboga coming in
full force.   I started seeing pictures of the Dalai Lama, my BF, Scott,
they were smiling.  Scott eyes were shining bright and they had this
loving, supportive energy that he was beaming down to me.
In one moment, I had to close my eyes and and a bright light flashed like
then a laser beamed down and scanned rings of electro-buzzing energy
scanned my whole body from head to toe.  Then a huge wave of energy rolled
through my body.  Tears started pouring out of my eyes, I would get more
visions of people that I cared about, mostly family, I saw my mother lying
in her bed crying, then I would get smaller waves of emotional release,
then tears, this went on for hours.
Then the deep stuff came.  At this point the little screen projected a
couple feet in front if me and I saw those memories that I had not been
able to make sense of in my life that were trapped inside me.  More waves.
I was totally surrendered.  Scott’s picture was way over to the right, a
lot bigger than the little life pictures screen.
I also was taken to bigger views of the planet and the nature of
consciousness.  The waves got farther in between and then Pure Presence
arose within me and I knew myself as pure Awareness.  I was able to view
my mind…a still lake as clear as glass.  I started dropping little
pebbles and watching the smooth ripples then it would be still and clear
again.  I was aware of my ego to the left of this and everything else
around was Presence.  I started realizing that I was free and I kept
saying it over and over.  Feelings kept coming up and this went on for a
long time.  I saw myself in our garden seeing everything like for the
first time – a flower, my BF, the house and  my cats.  I was in compete
awe of the life-force that animates everything.
I realized that my deep intention was that I wanted to know Truth.  For
me, I believe I have had a glimpse of what I wanted to know.  I feel like
I have emerged at a new level and I can’t wait to see my BF!  I swear I
feel like I am on my way to a honeymoon in my relationship and in my life.
I plan on taking this energy and building a new foundation for my life.
A lot more happened and many synchronicities occurred before and after.  I
wish everyone a great day and Happy Thanksgiving if you are having that –
I will be on an airplane going home.  I want to express my gratitude for
the people that reached out to me and helped me get to this point.
Talk to ya soon,
Brenda 🙂
———————————————————–
WebMail provided by Photon.Net – http://www.photon.net/
Nationwide internet access, thousands of dial-up numbers!
Web hosting, multimedia broadcasting, e-commerce, and more.
 /]=———————————————————————=[\
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 \]=———————————————————————=[/
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 \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] On way way home 🙂
Date: November 24, 2005 at 1:20:21 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
beautiful.
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —– From: <shakti@photon.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 7:53 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] On way way home 🙂
Hello again!
I wanted to share a few highlights of my Ibgaine experience with you,
mostly things I want to keep fresh in my mind.  I am enjoying my cleansed
feeling state so much, I’ll be off the computer for a while 🙂
I ingested 14 (grams?)  whatever the amount is weighed in and I weight
about 120.  My session was intense and difficult for the first ten hours.
I knew my ego was resisting – it did not want to let the feelings that had
been repressed for however long to surface.  Then for 2 hours it was
basically a countdown between ego surrendering first or Iboga coming in
full force.   I started seeing pictures of the Dalai Lama, my BF, Scott,
they were smiling.  Scott eyes were shining bright and they had this
loving, supportive energy that he was beaming down to me.
In one moment, I had to close my eyes and and a bright light flashed like
then a laser beamed down and scanned rings of electro-buzzing energy
scanned my whole body from head to toe.  Then a huge wave of energy rolled
through my body.  Tears started pouring out of my eyes, I would get more
visions of people that I cared about, mostly family, I saw my mother lying
in her bed crying, then I would get smaller waves of emotional release,
then tears, this went on for hours.
Then the deep stuff came.  At this point the little screen projected a
couple feet in front if me and I saw those memories that I had not been
able to make sense of in my life that were trapped inside me.  More waves.
I was totally surrendered.  Scott’s picture was way over to the right, a
lot bigger than the little life pictures screen.
I also was taken to bigger views of the planet and the nature of
consciousness.  The waves got farther in between and then Pure Presence
arose within me and I knew myself as pure Awareness.  I was able to view
my mind…a still lake as clear as glass.  I started dropping little
pebbles and watching the smooth ripples then it would be still and clear
again.  I was aware of my ego to the left of this and everything else
around was Presence.  I started realizing that I was free and I kept
saying it over and over.  Feelings kept coming up and this went on for a
long time.  I saw myself in our garden seeing everything like for the
first time – a flower, my BF, the house and  my cats.  I was in compete
awe of the life-force that animates everything.
I realized that my deep intention was that I wanted to know Truth.  For
me, I believe I have had a glimpse of what I wanted to know.  I feel like
I have emerged at a new level and I can’t wait to see my BF!  I swear I
feel like I am on my way to a honeymoon in my relationship and in my life.
I plan on taking this energy and building a new foundation for my life.
A lot more happened and many synchronicities occurred before and after.  I
wish everyone a great day and Happy Thanksgiving if you are having that –
I will be on an airplane going home.  I want to express my gratitude for
the people that reached out to me and helped me get to this point.
Talk to ya soon,
Brenda 🙂
———————————————————–
WebMail provided by Photon.Net – http://www.photon.net/
Nationwide internet access, thousands of dial-up numbers!
Web hosting, multimedia broadcasting, e-commerce, and more.
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Giorgio Samorini Discussing Eboga
Date: November 24, 2005 at 1:18:02 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Thanks Lee, it is, well worth whatever its asking prices. It’s very easy to read, very entertaining AND informative, and will only take you the afternoon to read if you’re anything like me.
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —– From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 5:09 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Giorgio Samorini Discussing Eboga
http://cannabisculture.com/articles/3339.html
“Animals and Psychedelics” by Giorgio Samorini
“This new book by Giorgio Samorini, one of the world’s leading experts on the tribal, ritual use of psychedelics, observes the drug habits of dozens of animals, from elephants to goats, and even a few insects. He tells what they get high on, what they do when they’re high, and suggests tantalizing reasons for why they do it.”
Hi Preston,
Verr interesting. I found a link to the book. Its on my list (after 99 other books). Sounds like a good read.
Lee
Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Giorgio Samorini, if memory serves correctly, wrote a brilliant if short
book about all sorts of animals who willfully get high on all sorts of plant
substances- but I can’t remember the title. Google his name and “animals and
drugs” or “animals get high” and see what turns up.
Peace and love,
Preston Peet
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —– From: Lee Albert
To: Ibogaine List
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 7:54 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Giorgio Samorini Discussing Eboga
Thought this might be of interest to some:
www.pot-tv.net/ram/pottvshowse708.ram
Pot TV – Entheogens 101: Giorgio Samorini 10 min 30 May, 2001 – In a
facinating interview, Reverand Damuzi and guest host Aivia talk with Italian
entheogen researcher and writer Giorgio Samorini about the use of cannabis
and ibogaine for shamanistic purposes amongst certain African tribes. Filmed
at the Entheogen2 Conference by Ci Ci.
Lee
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six
year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those
already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Debunking ibogaine
Date: November 24, 2005 at 1:13:09 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Re: [Ibogaine] Debunking ibogaineI’d always heard alcohol was THE only drug that could literally kill you as a direct result of the withdrawals. I could be mistaken, but I did learn it in a 28-dayw program, and we all know how reliable they are when it comes to addiction and drug use
Peace and love,
Preston Peet
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —– From: Beatrice Blue
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 1:33 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Debunking ibogaine
Ok, guys, I may be the grossly uninformed addict mentioned, but I was always under the impression that you could die from opiate withdrawals.  Granted, it would be rare, but it could happen.  When I kicked cold turkey many years ago, my doctor gave my mother a run down on what to look for and a list of possibilities, which definitely included death.  I thought seizures were a big reason for death from withdrawal (but then again I must also admit that Dr. Mash told me opiate addicts don’t ever go into seizures, only convulsions).  Most addicts aren’t very healthy going into withdrawal to begin with.  With all the diareha and vomiting, couldn’t you die from dehydration, or some underlying condition such as heart attacks.  Didn’t Jerry Garcia die this way?  If you can’t die, then why don’t we just give all addicts some Naltrexone/Revia right after their last hit and push them through withdrawal faster?  I realize that some would say that the withdrawal didn’t kill them, the health problem did, but that wouldn’t include seizures or dehydration.
G-d, don’t know how many of you have taken Naltrexone or Revia with even a little bit of dope still in your system, but what an absolutely horrible thought that is…
On 11/23/05 7:18 AM, “Matthew Shriver” <matt@itsupport.net> wrote:
Honestly this thing sounds more than a little made up to me.  At the least they have an anti-ibogaine agenda (which is fine, to each his own) but it seriously looks like there are a number of outright lies in it to.  Like this part, “When the Ibogaine first wore off – I wasn’t sick yet–just feeling kind of normal. At around five in the morning, my supervisor and I began celebrating (prematurely). We were dancing around the room like idiots. I was so happy. I really thought it had worked.”  According to the previous paragraph or two this is like 40 hours after the first ibogaine dose so they should have been well into withdrawal territory, yet they say later the withdrawals all of a sudden came on a little later.  I also never heard of anyone who could dance around the room at 40 hours into ibogaine (at least not without great effort) and when I used it to come off of opiates I felt pretty worn out as the ibo abated.   Then this part, “Remember that I was kicking heroin and methadone so I was concerned that in addition to all the pain, I might die.” Either they are grossly uninformed or they are really just making the whole thing up.  I would think (and maybe I’m wrong) that most opiate addicts know that you can’t die from opiate withdrawal.  There were other points but frankly a lot of it just sounds made up to me.
From: Lee Albert [mailto:myeboga@yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 3:58 AM
To: Ibogaine List
Subject: [Ibogaine] Debunking ibogaine
I saw this:
http://www.heroinhelper.com/angry/ibogaine_experience.shtml
Does anyone know anything about this experience?
If they do you can post me off list. I am thinking of posting it on my site. It might be good to have a debunking section?
Lee
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html <http://www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html> .
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html <http://www.my-eboga.com/network.html> .
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From: “Matthew Shriver” <matt@itsupport.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] RE: one more little thingydo
Date: November 24, 2005 at 12:30:53 PM EST
To: <anntelope@worldnet.att.net>
Cc: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Anne
Thanks for your reply.  I still disagree with you on some points, or perhaps
more like opinions, but that’s fine, everyone is entitled to not just their
own opinions, but beliefs as well, which is what opinions are after all.  My
own story is that I took ibogaine 5 times before it worked for me.  I had
short periods of clean time twice and returned to active addiction
immediately twice.  That last time, when it was successful, I was on 74mg of
methadone and was an occasional heroin/cocaine/crack user.
My experience with ibogaine (although I am beginning to see that some people
can react very differently then the norm, just as with other drugs) was that
during it’s strongest effects, in the first 24 hours say, was when the
withdrawal symptoms were least attenuated.  It was only later, after say
36-48 hours that they really tapered off noticeably.  Mind you, that I
always took ibogaine at least 24 hours or so after my last opiate dose, so
24 hours into ibogaine is 48 hours after any opiates.  It was stressed to me
that mixing opiates and ibo could be fatal so I was always conscious about
taking the ibogaine when the opiates were on their way out.
As to what I said about your account seeming made up, that was my
perception.  I don’t think I said you were a liar with any authority because
I can’t know that, I simply suggested that it appeared so from my
perspective.  I gather from your post as well as other responses that your
account was an accurate description from your perspective.  Fair enough.
But one thing that came out loud and clear was an anti-ibogaine agenda.  The
account I read certainly seemed intended to lead people to believe that
ibogaine is not effective to treat drug dependence.  And I was
understandably leery of something that proclaimed so loudly the opposite of
what I know to be true.
As to opiate withdrawal being fatal, my understanding is that it is not.  As
other’s have posted to the list, complications from the symptoms could
conceivably be fatal; but healthy people do not die from opiate withdrawal,
even methadone.  Alcohol withdrawal can be, and sometimes is, fatal.
Cocaine withdrawal can lead to seizures.  So someone who was poly-drug
addicted could have non-opiate related withdrawal symptoms mixed with opiate
withdrawal symptoms and appear to have died from opiate withdrawal.  But I
am not a doctor so I am always ready to entertain the notion that I am
wrong.
Lastly, I am not an ibogaine crusader.  Your analogy about the car does not
work for me because I did not build the ibogaine car, I don’t sell it, and I
don’t encourage people (at least not people who don’t already have an
interest) to drive it.  It was a useful vehicle for me but I am clear that
it is not for everyone and I have no need to defend or promote it.  Like
you, I simply aim to share my experience with it.
I’m glad to know that the account was real, and not made up.  And your
experiences are just as valid as mine and deserve to be heard.  The ibogaine
forum is, to the best of my understanding, about sharing information, both
positive and negative so both types of accounts should be shared and
discussed.
Matt
—–Original Message—–
From: Anntelope [mailto:anntelope@worldnet.att.net]
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 9:07 AM
To: matt@itsupport.net; prpeet@nyc.rr.com
Subject: one more little thingydo
The more I read your email, the more I just shake my head.   You didn’t
really get to read an accurate account or something of what went down
because if you had, you’d know I was given a SECOND dose of Ibogaine.
Howard Lotsoff himself gave me a booster dose and I ingested this orally
in a capsule at three oclock the next afternoon.  That was twenty seven
hours approximately after the first dose (I took the first dose via
enema to avoid nauseau – betcha you didn’t know that either lolol).
Then he sat there on the couch and waited with me while it took effect.
As it began to hit me I told Howard I was afraid of it.  He told me I
should be more afraid of the poisons I had been putting in my arm.
It was when the second dose hit me that I finally experienced my
encounter with the Bwiti.
I have been told me people to leave that out – that it destroys my
credibility with people who couldn’t possibly understand such a thing.
Unfortunately, I am obligated to tell the truth and encountering the
Bwiti was perhaps one of the only things that happened as promised.  I
did experience a short interruption in my Heroin and Cocaine use.  For
two weeks I only took Methadone and smoked pot.  But then I slipped back
very easily.
You see – I had been sold Ibogaine as a miracle cure.  I was led to have
perhaps some unrealistic expectations.   I was promised NO withdrawals.
I experienced very bad withdrawals.   I realize now that it was the
Methadone that screwed it all up.  Methadone, bad timing – lack of
experience – lots of things.
And I don’t know where you’ve been but people can die from withdrawals.
Especially back in the days when I first started using.   I watched
someone die right on the couch in Synanon of withdrawals because they
didn’t even have an oxygen mask available just in case.  But the
withdrawals I was concerned about is Methadone withdrawals.   You most
certainly CAN die from that – especially if you have any complications
to deal with like in my own case – a seizure disorder.
I would be happy to send you the things I wrote about my Ibogaine trip
and after reading it  you can ask me ANY questions you wish.  I reported
what happened just like it happened.  I suggest that if you are
sincerely and earnestly involved with Ibogaine or believe in it – you
should want to learn everything you can about what went wrong so as to
prevent it from happening again.
I know if I built a car and thought it was perfect and then someone
discovered a defect – I’d want to know so I could fix it.  Yes?  No?  Yes?
???
all the best
Anne
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From: “Matthew Shriver” <matt@itsupport.net>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] On way way home 🙂
Date: November 24, 2005 at 11:53:05 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Awesome Brenda.  I don’t mean to make those who haven’t taken it feel apart
from by saying this, but welcome to the club so to speak.  I related to so
much of what you mentioned from my own experiences.  The ego vs ibo thing,
the mind like clear glass feeling, all of the emotional imagery stuff, the
presence of awareness, and the glimpse of ultimate truth are all elements I
have experienced in one way or another in my ibogaine sessions.  I’m glad
you got such good results and look forward to hearing how you do going
forward.
Matt
—–Original Message—–
From: shakti@photon.net [mailto:shakti@photon.net]
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 5:54 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] On way way home 🙂
Hello again!
I wanted to share a few highlights of my Ibgaine experience with you,
mostly things I want to keep fresh in my mind.  I am enjoying my cleansed
feeling state so much, I’ll be off the computer for a while 🙂
I ingested 14 (grams?)  whatever the amount is weighed in and I weight
about 120.  My session was intense and difficult for the first ten hours.
I knew my ego was resisting – it did not want to let the feelings that had
been repressed for however long to surface.  Then for 2 hours it was
basically a countdown between ego surrendering first or Iboga coming in
full force.   I started seeing pictures of the Dalai Lama, my BF, Scott,
they were smiling.  Scott eyes were shining bright and they had this
loving, supportive energy that he was beaming down to me.
In one moment, I had to close my eyes and and a bright light flashed like
then a laser beamed down and scanned rings of electro-buzzing energy
scanned my whole body from head to toe.  Then a huge wave of energy rolled
through my body.  Tears started pouring out of my eyes, I would get more
visions of people that I cared about, mostly family, I saw my mother lying
in her bed crying, then I would get smaller waves of emotional release,
then tears, this went on for hours.
Then the deep stuff came.  At this point the little screen projected a
couple feet in front if me and I saw those memories that I had not been
able to make sense of in my life that were trapped inside me.  More waves.
I was totally surrendered.  Scott’s picture was way over to the right, a
lot bigger than the little life pictures screen.
I also was taken to bigger views of the planet and the nature of
consciousness.  The waves got farther in between and then Pure Presence
arose within me and I knew myself as pure Awareness.  I was able to view
my mind…a still lake as clear as glass.  I started dropping little
pebbles and watching the smooth ripples then it would be still and clear
again.  I was aware of my ego to the left of this and everything else
around was Presence.  I started realizing that I was free and I kept
saying it over and over.  Feelings kept coming up and this went on for a
long time.  I saw myself in our garden seeing everything like for the
first time – a flower, my BF, the house and  my cats.  I was in compete
awe of the life-force that animates everything.
I realized that my deep intention was that I wanted to know Truth.  For
me, I believe I have had a glimpse of what I wanted to know.  I feel like
I have emerged at a new level and I can’t wait to see my BF!  I swear I
feel like I am on my way to a honeymoon in my relationship and in my life.
I plan on taking this energy and building a new foundation for my life.
A lot more happened and many synchronicities occurred before and after.  I
wish everyone a great day and Happy Thanksgiving if you are having that –
I will be on an airplane going home.  I want to express my gratitude for
the people that reached out to me and helped me get to this point.
Talk to ya soon,
Brenda 🙂
———————————————————–
WebMail provided by Photon.Net – http://www.photon.net/
Nationwide internet access, thousands of dial-up numbers!
Web hosting, multimedia broadcasting, e-commerce, and more.
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From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Audio Visual Links
Date: November 24, 2005 at 8:53:56 AM EST
To: Eboga List <eboga@elistas.com>, Ibogaine List <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi,
www.my-eboga.com/audiovisual.html
Just to let you know I sorted out this page (removed a few entries & tickmarked interesting or useful items) and also added some very interesting MP3’s from an ibogaine conference:
“California Society of Addiction Medicine 2003 Conference (MP3):
Recordings of the ibogaine presentations. Presentations include discussion of 2nd generation ibogaine-like drugs, genetic implications and reports on human studies. “
For those new to ibogaine you might find the Ibogaine Story video a good watch.
Lee
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
From: shakti@photon.net
Subject: [Ibogaine] On way way home 🙂
Date: November 24, 2005 at 7:53:41 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hello again!
I wanted to share a few highlights of my Ibgaine experience with you,
mostly things I want to keep fresh in my mind.  I am enjoying my cleansed
feeling state so much, I’ll be off the computer for a while 🙂
I ingested 14 (grams?)  whatever the amount is weighed in and I weight
about 120.  My session was intense and difficult for the first ten hours.
I knew my ego was resisting – it did not want to let the feelings that had
been repressed for however long to surface.  Then for 2 hours it was
basically a countdown between ego surrendering first or Iboga coming in
full force.   I started seeing pictures of the Dalai Lama, my BF, Scott,
they were smiling.  Scott eyes were shining bright and they had this
loving, supportive energy that he was beaming down to me.
In one moment, I had to close my eyes and and a bright light flashed like
then a laser beamed down and scanned rings of electro-buzzing energy
scanned my whole body from head to toe.  Then a huge wave of energy rolled
through my body.  Tears started pouring out of my eyes, I would get more
visions of people that I cared about, mostly family, I saw my mother lying
in her bed crying, then I would get smaller waves of emotional release,
then tears, this went on for hours.
Then the deep stuff came.  At this point the little screen projected a
couple feet in front if me and I saw those memories that I had not been
able to make sense of in my life that were trapped inside me.  More waves.
I was totally surrendered.  Scott’s picture was way over to the right, a
lot bigger than the little life pictures screen.
I also was taken to bigger views of the planet and the nature of
consciousness.  The waves got farther in between and then Pure Presence
arose within me and I knew myself as pure Awareness.  I was able to view
my mind…a still lake as clear as glass.  I started dropping little
pebbles and watching the smooth ripples then it would be still and clear
again.  I was aware of my ego to the left of this and everything else
around was Presence.  I started realizing that I was free and I kept
saying it over and over.  Feelings kept coming up and this went on for a
long time.  I saw myself in our garden seeing everything like for the
first time – a flower, my BF, the house and  my cats.  I was in compete
awe of the life-force that animates everything.
I realized that my deep intention was that I wanted to know Truth.  For
me, I believe I have had a glimpse of what I wanted to know.  I feel like
I have emerged at a new level and I can’t wait to see my BF!  I swear I
feel like I am on my way to a honeymoon in my relationship and in my life.
I plan on taking this energy and building a new foundation for my life.
A lot more happened and many synchronicities occurred before and after.  I
wish everyone a great day and Happy Thanksgiving if you are having that –
I will be on an airplane going home.  I want to express my gratitude for
the people that reached out to me and helped me get to this point.
Talk to ya soon,
Brenda 🙂
———————————————————–
WebMail provided by Photon.Net – http://www.photon.net/
Nationwide internet access, thousands of dial-up numbers!
Web hosting, multimedia broadcasting, e-commerce, and more.
 /]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: Henk <knehnav@xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Giorgio Samorini Discussing Eboga
Date: November 24, 2005 at 5:33:47 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
The book: http://cannabisculture.com/articles/3339.html
Henk
Preston Peet wrote:
Giorgio Samorini, if memory serves correctly, wrote a brilliant if short book about all sorts of animals who willfully get high on all sorts of plant substances- but I can’t remember the title. Google his name and “animals and drugs” or “animals get high” and see what turns up.
Peace and love,
Preston Peet
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —– From: Lee Albert
To: Ibogaine List
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 7:54 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Giorgio Samorini Discussing Eboga
Thought this might be of interest to some:
www.pot-tv.net/ram/pottvshowse708.ram
Pot TV – Entheogens 101: Giorgio Samorini 10 min 30 May, 2001 – In a facinating interview, Reverand Damuzi and guest host Aivia talk with Italian entheogen researcher and writer Giorgio Samorini about the use of cannabis and ibogaine for shamanistic purposes amongst certain African tribes. Filmed at the Entheogen2 Conference by Ci Ci.
Lee
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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Om Shanti, Jai Mataji, Jai Gangama.
Lost and Free Enterprises
http://www.xs4all.nl/~knehnav
http://www.geocities.com/knehnav55/
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From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Giorgio Samorini Discussing Eboga
Date: November 24, 2005 at 5:09:59 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
http://cannabisculture.com/articles/3339.html
“Animals and Psychedelics” by Giorgio Samorini
“This new book by Giorgio Samorini, one of the world’s leading experts on the tribal, ritual use of psychedelics, observes the drug habits of dozens of animals, from elephants to goats, and even a few insects. He tells what they get high on, what they do when they’re high, and suggests tantalizing reasons for why they do it.”
Hi Preston,
Verr interesting. I found a link to the book. Its on my list (after 99 other books). Sounds like a good read.
Lee
Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Giorgio Samorini, if memory serves correctly, wrote a brilliant if short
book about all sorts of animals who willfully get high on all sorts of plant
substances- but I can’t remember the title. Google his name and “animals and
drugs” or “animals get high” and see what turns up.
Peace and love,
Preston Peet
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: Ibogaine List
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 7:54 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Giorgio Samorini Discussing Eboga
Thought this might be of interest to some:
www.pot-tv.net/ram/pottvshowse708.ram
Pot TV – Entheogens 101: Giorgio Samorini 10 min 30 May, 2001 – In a
facinating interview, Reverand Damuzi and guest host Aivia talk with Italian
entheogen researcher and writer Giorgio Samorini about the use of cannabis
and ibogaine for shamanistic purposes amongst certain African tribes. Filmed
at the Entheogen2 Conference by Ci Ci.
Lee
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six
year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those
already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Debunking ibogaine
Date: November 24, 2005 at 4:15:54 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Yeah, Anne does post every so often on the DrugWar list, and I met her at the pet food store, and I like her a lot, even though she apparently didn’t get on well with others of my friends at some point in the fairly distant past now- and how is not that militantly anti-ibogaine anymore, seemingly, without trying to put words into her mouth, more open to the idea that it may very well work for some but didn’t do the trick with her, just as with any treatment try.
Peace and love,
Preston Peet
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —– From: “Vector Vector” <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 3:23 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Debunking ibogaine
This also went through this list years ago. The person isn’t made up,
that’s Anne Ardalino, who I don’t think is on this list but posts all
the time to the DrugWar list that Preston runs here. The version on
Heroin Helper is edited and the provider’s names are removed (Howard
Lotsof and Bob Sisko), Dr. Francis Moraes who runs Heroin Helper is on
this list and used to post a lot years ago, I don’t know if he’s in
prison again or what because his site hasn’t been updated in years. The
original version which is a lot more angry and crazed, using Howard and
Sisko’s names is up somewhere on Heroin Times, which also went under or
is in limbo since around the time Heroin Helper stopped adding content.
.:vector:.
— Matthew Shriver <matt@itsupport.net> wrote:
Honestly this thing sounds more than a little made up to me.  At the
least
they have an anti-ibogaine agenda (which is fine, to each his own)
but it
seriously looks like there are a number of outright lies in it to.
Like
this part, “When the Ibogaine first wore off – I wasn’t sick
yet–just
feeling kind of normal. At around five in the morning, my supervisor
and I
began celebrating (prematurely). We were dancing around the room like
idiots. I was so happy. I really thought it had worked.”  According
to the
previous paragraph or two this is like 40 hours after the first
ibogaine
dose so they should have been well into withdrawal territory, yet
they say
later the withdrawals all of a sudden came on a little later.  I also
never
heard of anyone who could dance around the room at 40 hours into
ibogaine
(at least not without great effort) and when I used it to come off of
opiates I felt pretty worn out as the ibo abated.   Then this part,
“Remember that I was kicking heroin and methadone so I was concerned
that in
addition to all the pain, I might die.” Either they are grossly
uninformed
or they are really just making the whole thing up.  I would think
(and maybe
I’m wrong) that most opiate addicts know that you can’t die from
opiate
withdrawal.  There were other points but frankly a lot of it just
sounds
made up to me.
 _____
From: Lee Albert [mailto:myeboga@yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 3:58 AM
To: Ibogaine List
Subject: [Ibogaine] Debunking ibogaine
I saw this:
http://www.heroinhelper.com/angry/ibogaine_experience.shtml
Does anyone know anything about this experience?
If they do you can post me off list. I am thinking of posting it on
my site.
It might be good to have a debunking section?
Lee
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over
a six
year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for
those
already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
__________________________________
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com
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From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Debunking ibogaine
Date: November 24, 2005 at 4:08:20 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In rare cases, there is some risk of death during withdrawal, but usually more directly from some secondary reason, like, as you say, dehydration. Elderly patients and those with advanced stage terminal diseases like cancer and AIDS should probably not try to detox from opiates without medical assistance. But even without medical assistance in such cases, death is uncommon. I don’t think there’ve been any reports, or at least I’ve never read any reports of otherwise “healthy” people dying during opiate withdrawal.
Garcia died of a heart attack while he was in drug rehab… but I think the heart attack was more from years of drug abuse and obesity, rather than anything specific to that particular attempt to get clean.
Ok, guys, I may be the grossly uninformed addict mentioned, but I was always under the impression that you /could/ die from opiate withdrawals.  Granted, it would be rare, but it could happen.  When I kicked cold turkey many years ago, my doctor gave my mother a run down on what to look for and a list of possibilities, which definitely included death.  I thought seizures were a big reason for death from withdrawal (but then again I must also admit that Dr. Mash told me opiate addicts don’t ever go into seizures, only convulsions).  Most addicts aren’t very healthy going into withdrawal to begin with.  With all the diareha and vomiting, couldn’t you die from dehydration, or some underlying condition such as heart attacks.  Didn’t Jerry Garcia die this way?  If you can’t die, then why don’t we just give all addicts some Naltrexone/Revia right after their last hit and push them through withdrawal faster?  I realize that some would say that the withdrawal didn’t kill them, the health problem did, but that wouldn’t include seizures or dehydration.
G-d, don’t know how many of you have taken Naltrexone or Revia with even a little bit of dope still in your system, but what an absolutely horrible thought that is…
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Debunking ibogaine
Date: November 24, 2005 at 4:04:06 AM EST
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>, <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
According to the previous paragraph or two this is like 40 hours after the first ibogaine dose so they should have been well into withdrawal territory, yet they say later the withdrawals all of a sudden came on a little later.  I also never heard of anyone who could dance around the room at 40 hours into ibogaine (at least not without great effort)<
The last time I took ibogaine, myself, I was dj’ing right about 40 hours afterwards, having taken a dose as large or slightly larger apparently (though still not large enough I discovered much to my chagrin- and that’s no slight on the person who found it for me, I appreciated having any, at least to begin with), but as the ibogaine wore off completely, I found that only 2 ms-contins a day were still leaving me feeling extremely ill and in withdrawals, even after having just taken ibogaine. This time ‘rouund, without the ibogaine, at right now a week and a half at 2 a day for one week, and 2 and a half a day for 1 of the last three days, and 3 a day for i of those days, and just the two for one of those three days, I’ve found I’m feeling much more able to adjust to the decrease. I don’t know if it’s because I did ibogaine in the past and it’s just now clicking with me that a LOT of my withdrawal symptoms are OFTEN, though certainly not always, as some people here can attest from seeing me in full-on withdrawals, in my head, that panic mode of “oh shit, I’m running low, I’m out of this or that med, oh no, what do I do?” when as someone else suggested (and others too over the years) by finding busy work that doesn’t tax me too physically, I’m able to ward off a lot, though not all but enough, of that icky skin, panic feeling. Of course, the occasional hot bath certainly helps, and the occasional herbal blessing by this or that friend doesn’t hurt either- but I thought I should point out that I was up and on my feet and while not dancing, I was on my feet for hours, even as sick as I felt.
  As well, just my two or three cents, and not offered as an argument or as a “you’re wrong and I’m right” sorta post at all- just posted as a personal observation as to what happened to this one particular person- me.
  Love and thanksgiving no matter your thoughts on the commercialized version,
Peace and yet more love,
Preston Peet
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —– From: Matthew Shriver
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 10:18 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Debunking ibogaine
Honestly this thing sounds more than a little made up to me.  At the least they have an anti-ibogaine agenda (which is fine, to each his own) but it seriously looks like there are a number of outright lies in it to.  Like this part, “When the Ibogaine first wore off – I wasn’t sick yet–just feeling kind of normal. At around five in the morning, my supervisor and I began celebrating (prematurely). We were dancing around the room like idiots. I was so happy. I really thought it had worked.”  According to the previous paragraph or two this is like 40 hours after the first ibogaine dose so they should have been well into withdrawal territory, yet they say later the withdrawals all of a sudden came on a little later.  I also never heard of anyone who could dance around the room at 40 hours into ibogaine (at least not without great effort) and when I used it to come off of opiates I felt pretty worn out as the ibo abated.   Then this part, “Remember that I was kicking heroin and methadone so I was concerned that in addition to all the pain, I might die.” Either they are grossly uninformed or they are really just making the whole thing up.  I would think (and maybe I’m wrong) that most opiate addicts know that you can’t die from opiate withdrawal.  There were other points but frankly a lot of it just sounds made up to me.
From: Lee Albert [mailto:myeboga@yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 3:58 AM
To: Ibogaine List
Subject: [Ibogaine] Debunking ibogaine
I saw this:
http://www.heroinhelper.com/angry/ibogaine_experience.shtml
Does anyone know anything about this experience?
If they do you can post me off list. I am thinking of posting it on my site. It might be good to have a debunking section?
Lee
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Giorgio Samorini Discussing Eboga
Date: November 24, 2005 at 3:55:19 AM EST
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>, <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Giorgio Samorini, if memory serves correctly, wrote a brilliant if short book about all sorts of animals who willfully get high on all sorts of plant substances- but I can’t remember the title. Google his name and “animals and drugs” or “animals get high” and see what turns up.
Peace and love,
Preston Peet
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —– From: Lee Albert
To: Ibogaine List
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 7:54 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Giorgio Samorini Discussing Eboga
Thought this might be of interest to some:
www.pot-tv.net/ram/pottvshowse708.ram
Pot TV – Entheogens 101: Giorgio Samorini 10 min 30 May, 2001 – In a facinating interview, Reverand Damuzi and guest host Aivia talk with Italian entheogen researcher and writer Giorgio Samorini about the use of cannabis and ibogaine for shamanistic purposes amongst certain African tribes. Filmed at the Entheogen2 Conference by Ci Ci.
Lee
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Poise Consulting Ltd” <caroline@poiseconsulting.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Debunking ibogaine
Date: November 24, 2005 at 3:34:45 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I read this guys experience and I could relate to part of it… not the celebrating prematurely, then withdrawals kicking  in suddenly… BUT, throughout the 36-48 hours, I had that exact physical pain, throwing myself about, excruciating pain in kidneys etc…
The administrator eventually agreed to take me to hospital and they treated me for high blood pressure and put me on a small methadone dose, which sorted me out. I have spoken to many people and the consensus is that it did not have the usual effect as my body was really unprepared and I was chronically dehydrated. Any thoughts??
began to suffer from muscle spasms–my biggest difficulty with kicking and which usually leads to grand maul convulsions. I was starting to experience these violent and brutal muscle spasms. They literally had me rolling all over the floor. I was involuntarily throwing myself all over the place. I started to grow frightened–more and more frightened by the minute because I didn’t know where this was going to lead.
My supervisor then called for two of his friends to come to the hotel. They turned out to be a nice friendly couple, a man and a woman. The young lady began to administer loving back-rubs to me–but alas, I couldn’t hold still long enough for her to do the job.
At this point, I also began to suffer from bad backaches and my kidneys were on fire.
– | European Recruitment Specialists – |
Caroline Mulliez
Director
Poise Consulting Ltd
Phoenix House
Rectory
Great Paxton
St Neots
Cambridgeshire
PE19 6RZ
caroline@poiseconsulting.com
www.poiseconsulting.com
tel:
mobile:
+44 (0) 1480 214533
+44 (0) 7734 301105
Add me to your address book…
Want a signature like this?
—–Original Message—–
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net]
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 3:37 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Debunking ibogaine
But paying attention precludes being sober, I was always wondering why Matt seemed to be two people, thanx for clearing that up.
Matthew Shriver wrote:
If you pay close attention Don you will see that there are two Matts on the list, at least two who have been posting recently.   And I could always write, which is not to say that Matt Z. couldn’t always write too.  But I got a spill chucker. J
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 4:33 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Debunking ibogaine
Lookie, Matt can WRITE again!!

Matthew Shriver wrote:
Honestly this thing sounds more than a little made up to me.  At the least they have an anti-ibogaine agenda (which is fine, to each his own) but it seriously looks like there are a number of outright lies in it to.  Like this part, “When the Ibogaine first wore off – I wasn’t sick yet–just feeling kind of normal. At around five in the morning, my supervisor and I began celebrating (prematurely). We were dancing around the room like idiots. I was so happy. I really thought it had worked.”  According to the previous paragraph or two this is like 40 hours after the first ibogaine dose so they should have been well into withdrawal territory, yet they say later the withdrawals all of a sudden came on a little later.  I also never heard of anyone who could dance around the room at 40 hours into ibogaine (at least not without great effort) and when I used it to come off of opiates I felt pretty worn out as the ibo abated.   Then this part, “Remember that I was kicking heroin and methadone so I was concerned that in addition to all the pain, I might die.” Either they are grossly uninformed or they are really just making the whole thing up.  I would think (and maybe I’m wrong) that most opiate addicts know that you can’t die from opiate withdrawal.  There were other points but frankly a lot of it just sounds made up to me.
From: Lee Albert [mailto:myeboga@yahoo.co.uk] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 3:58 AM
To: Ibogaine List
Subject: [Ibogaine] Debunking ibogaine
I saw this:
http://www.heroinhelper.com/angry/ibogaine_experience.shtml
Does anyone know anything about this experience?
If they do you can post me off list. I am thinking of posting it on my site. It might be good to have a debunking section?
Lee
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
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From: Beatrice Blue <beatriceblue@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Debunking ibogaine
Date: November 24, 2005 at 1:33:40 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Ok, guys, I may be the grossly uninformed addict mentioned, but I was always under the impression that you could die from opiate withdrawals.  Granted, it would be rare, but it could happen.  When I kicked cold turkey many years ago, my doctor gave my mother a run down on what to look for and a list of possibilities, which definitely included death.  I thought seizures were a big reason for death from withdrawal (but then again I must also admit that Dr. Mash told me opiate addicts don’t ever go into seizures, only convulsions).  Most addicts aren’t very healthy going into withdrawal to begin with.  With all the diareha and vomiting, couldn’t you die from dehydration, or some underlying condition such as heart attacks.  Didn’t Jerry Garcia die this way?  If you can’t die, then why don’t we just give all addicts some Naltrexone/Revia right after their last hit and push them through withdrawal faster?  I realize that some would say that the withdrawal didn’t kill them, the health problem did, but that wouldn’t include seizures or dehydration.
G-d, don’t know how many of you have taken Naltrexone or Revia with even a little bit of dope still in your system, but what an absolutely horrible thought that is…
On 11/23/05 7:18 AM, “Matthew Shriver” <matt@itsupport.net> wrote:
Honestly this thing sounds more than a little made up to me.  At the least they have an anti-ibogaine agenda (which is fine, to each his own) but it seriously looks like there are a number of outright lies in it to.  Like this part, “When the Ibogaine first wore off – I wasn’t sick yet–just feeling kind of normal. At around five in the morning, my supervisor and I began celebrating (prematurely). We were dancing around the room like idiots. I was so happy. I really thought it had worked.”  According to the previous paragraph or two this is like 40 hours after the first ibogaine dose so they should have been well into withdrawal territory, yet they say later the withdrawals all of a sudden came on a little later.  I also never heard of anyone who could dance around the room at 40 hours into ibogaine (at least not without great effort) and when I used it to come off of opiates I felt pretty worn out as the ibo abated.   Then this part, “Remember that I was kicking heroin and methadone so I was concerned that in addition to all the pain, I might die.” Either they are grossly uninformed or they are really just making the whole thing up.  I would think (and maybe I’m wrong) that most opiate addicts know that you can’t die from opiate withdrawal.  There were other points but frankly a lot of it just sounds made up to me.
From: Lee Albert [mailto:myeboga@yahoo.co.uk] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 3:58 AM
To: Ibogaine List
Subject: [Ibogaine] Debunking ibogaine


I saw this:



http://www.heroinhelper.com/angry/ibogaine_experience.shtml



Does anyone know anything about this experience? 

If they do you can post me off list. I am thinking of posting it on my site. It might be good to have a debunking section?



Lee
 

Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html <http://www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html> .

My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html <http://www.my-eboga.com/network.html> .
From: Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Debunking ibogaine
Date: November 23, 2005 at 10:37:28 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
But paying attention precludes being sober, I was always wondering why Matt seemed to be two people, thanx for clearing that up.
Matthew Shriver wrote:
If you pay close attention Don you will see that there are two Matts on the list, at least two who have been posting recently.   And I could always write, which is not to say that Matt Z. couldn’t always write too.  But I got a spill chucker. J
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 4:33 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Debunking ibogaine
Lookie, Matt can WRITE again!!

Matthew Shriver wrote:
Honestly this thing sounds more than a little made up to me.  At the least they have an anti-ibogaine agenda (which is fine, to each his own) but it seriously looks like there are a number of outright lies in it to.  Like this part, “When the Ibogaine first wore off – I wasn’t sick yet–just feeling kind of normal. At around five in the morning, my supervisor and I began celebrating (prematurely). We were dancing around the room like idiots. I was so happy. I really thought it had worked.”  According to the previous paragraph or two this is like 40 hours after the first ibogaine dose so they should have been well into withdrawal territory, yet they say later the withdrawals all of a sudden came on a little later.  I also never heard of anyone who could dance around the room at 40 hours into ibogaine (at least not without great effort) and when I used it to come off of opiates I felt pretty worn out as the ibo abated.   Then this part, “Remember that I was kicking heroin and methadone so I was concerned that in addition to all the pain, I might die.” Either they are grossly uninformed or they are really just making the whole thing up.  I would think (and maybe I’m wrong) that most opiate addicts know that you can’t die from opiate withdrawal.  There were other points but frankly a lot of it just sounds made up to me.
From: Lee Albert [mailto:myeboga@yahoo.co.uk] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 3:58 AM
To: Ibogaine List
Subject: [Ibogaine] Debunking ibogaine
I saw this:
http://www.heroinhelper.com/angry/ibogaine_experience.shtml
Does anyone know anything about this experience?
If they do you can post me off list. I am thinking of posting it on my site. It might be good to have a debunking section?
Lee
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Feelings
Date: November 23, 2005 at 10:16:16 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Randy, I think you are looking too hard! Love is all powerful! You remind me of myself. I have all the love too….have always had it….but I don’t know how to handle it or something. Hell, I feel bad that i have it so good and that I still fuck up! But, you never know what you have until it is gone. Seems like the Ibogaine made you pretty aware of the important shit. Take it and run with it. Maybe you should have another go with the Ibogaine. You have done so well!!
Love you Randy….wish we could meet in the flesh…uuuhhhhh…in person! lol! you know what I mean!
Callie
From: “Matthew Shriver” <matt@itsupport.net>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Debunking ibogaine
Date: November 23, 2005 at 7:54:16 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
If you pay close attention Don you will see that there are two Matts on the list, at least two who have been posting recently.   And I could always write, which is not to say that Matt Z. couldn’t always write too.  But I got a spill chucker. J
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 4:33 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Debunking ibogaine
Lookie, Matt can WRITE again!!

Matthew Shriver wrote:
Honestly this thing sounds more than a little made up to me.  At the least they have an anti-ibogaine agenda (which is fine, to each his own) but it seriously looks like there are a number of outright lies in it to.  Like this part, “When the Ibogaine first wore off – I wasn’t sick yet–just feeling kind of normal. At around five in the morning, my supervisor and I began celebrating (prematurely). We were dancing around the room like idiots. I was so happy. I really thought it had worked.”  According to the previous paragraph or two this is like 40 hours after the first ibogaine dose so they should have been well into withdrawal territory, yet they say later the withdrawals all of a sudden came on a little later.  I also never heard of anyone who could dance around the room at 40 hours into ibogaine (at least not without great effort) and when I used it to come off of opiates I felt pretty worn out as the ibo abated.   Then this part, “Remember that I was kicking heroin and methadone so I was concerned that in addition to all the pain, I might die.” Either they are grossly uninformed or they are really just making the whole thing up.  I would think (and maybe I’m wrong) that most opiate addicts know that you can’t die from opiate withdrawal.  There were other points but frankly a lot of it just sounds made up to me.
From: Lee Albert [mailto:myeboga@yahoo.co.uk] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 3:58 AM
To: Ibogaine List
Subject: [Ibogaine] Debunking ibogaine
I saw this:
http://www.heroinhelper.com/angry/ibogaine_experience.shtml
Does anyone know anything about this experience?
If they do you can post me off list. I am thinking of posting it on my site. It might be good to have a debunking section?
Lee
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Debunking ibogaine
Date: November 23, 2005 at 6:32:57 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Lookie, Matt can WRITE again!!
Matthew Shriver wrote:
Honestly this thing sounds more than a little made up to me.  At the least they have an anti-ibogaine agenda (which is fine, to each his own) but it seriously looks like there are a number of outright lies in it to.  Like this part, “When the Ibogaine first wore off – I wasn’t sick yet–just feeling kind of normal. At around five in the morning, my supervisor and I began celebrating (prematurely). We were dancing around the room like idiots. I was so happy. I really thought it had worked.”  According to the previous paragraph or two this is like 40 hours after the first ibogaine dose so they should have been well into withdrawal territory, yet they say later the withdrawals all of a sudden came on a little later.  I also never heard of anyone who could dance around the room at 40 hours into ibogaine (at least not without great effort) and when I used it to come off of opiates I felt pretty worn out as the ibo abated.   Then this part, “Remember that I was kicking heroin and methadone so I was concerned that in addition to all the pain, I might die.” Either they are grossly uninformed or they are really just making the whole thing up.  I would think (and maybe I’m wrong) that most opiate addicts know that you can’t die from opiate withdrawal.  There were other points but frankly a lot of it just sounds made up to me.
From: Lee Albert [mailto:myeboga@yahoo.co.uk] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 3:58 AM
To: Ibogaine List
Subject: [Ibogaine] Debunking ibogaine
I saw this:
http://www.heroinhelper.com/angry/ibogaine_experience.shtml
Does anyone know anything about this experience?
If they do you can post me off list. I am thinking of posting it on my site. It might be good to have a debunking section?
Lee
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Off Topic: World Communit Grid – HIV
Date: November 23, 2005 at 6:28:16 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Not to be crass, but I have always been skeptical about these. Any mathematical equation only needs one computer, and cannot harness data from drones. What they CAN do is spam to the n’th degree. I decline.
darkmattersfo@comcast.net wrote:
There is a “World Community Grid” reseach project that uses personal pc’s all over the world to perform computational research  to design new anti-HIV drugs based on molecular structure.
A small applet is loaded onto your PC and runs in the back ground. As results are produced they are loaded back up to a research mainframe. By using this type of distributed computing researchers are able to process large amounts of data in a much shorter time. This type of computing has been around and has been/is being used to: Solve complex mathematical problems, seach for extra-terrestrial live, smallpox research, etc.
There are currently over 100,000 people participating in this particular project all over the world. The goal is to get 500,000 involved.
http://www.worldcommunitygrid.org/projects_showcase/viewFaahResearch.do
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Debunking ibogaine
Date: November 23, 2005 at 3:23:02 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
This also went through this list years ago. The person isn’t made up,
that’s Anne Ardalino, who I don’t think is on this list but posts all
the time to the DrugWar list that Preston runs here. The version on
Heroin Helper is edited and the provider’s names are removed (Howard
Lotsof and Bob Sisko), Dr. Francis Moraes who runs Heroin Helper is on
this list and used to post a lot years ago, I don’t know if he’s in
prison again or what because his site hasn’t been updated in years. The
original version which is a lot more angry and crazed, using Howard and
Sisko’s names is up somewhere on Heroin Times, which also went under or
is in limbo since around the time Heroin Helper stopped adding content.
.:vector:.
— Matthew Shriver <matt@itsupport.net> wrote:
Honestly this thing sounds more than a little made up to me.  At the
least
they have an anti-ibogaine agenda (which is fine, to each his own)
but it
seriously looks like there are a number of outright lies in it to.
Like
this part, “When the Ibogaine first wore off – I wasn’t sick
yet–just
feeling kind of normal. At around five in the morning, my supervisor
and I
began celebrating (prematurely). We were dancing around the room like
idiots. I was so happy. I really thought it had worked.”  According
to the
previous paragraph or two this is like 40 hours after the first
ibogaine
dose so they should have been well into withdrawal territory, yet
they say
later the withdrawals all of a sudden came on a little later.  I also
never
heard of anyone who could dance around the room at 40 hours into
ibogaine
(at least not without great effort) and when I used it to come off of
opiates I felt pretty worn out as the ibo abated.   Then this part,
“Remember that I was kicking heroin and methadone so I was concerned
that in
addition to all the pain, I might die.” Either they are grossly
uninformed
or they are really just making the whole thing up.  I would think
(and maybe
I’m wrong) that most opiate addicts know that you can’t die from
opiate
withdrawal.  There were other points but frankly a lot of it just
sounds
made up to me.
 _____
From: Lee Albert [mailto:myeboga@yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 3:58 AM
To: Ibogaine List
Subject: [Ibogaine] Debunking ibogaine
I saw this:
http://www.heroinhelper.com/angry/ibogaine_experience.shtml
Does anyone know anything about this experience?
If they do you can post me off list. I am thinking of posting it on
my site.
It might be good to have a debunking section?
Lee
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over
a six
year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for
those
already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
__________________________________
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com
 /]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
 \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: Luke Christoffersen <luke.christoffersen@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Debunking ibogaine
Date: November 23, 2005 at 2:32:29 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I read this one before. Personaly I think it is possible that it could
be true.  Maybe they had a bad experience with a provider and are
angry and feeling they were ripped off.  Perhaps even rising anger
brought up by the ibogaine which they are unaware of fuels this anger
motivating them to knock the ibogaine.   I also think many people can
relapse after ibogaine, even after multiple sessions, due to pain
surfacing.  Life can seem more difficult at times causing relapse.
I don’t really know why would someone make it all up to knock
something they had not experienced.
Luke
On 11/23/05, Matthew Shriver <matt@itsupport.net> wrote:
Honestly this thing sounds more than a little made up to me.  At the least
they have an anti-ibogaine agenda (which is fine, to each his own) but it
seriously looks like there are a number of outright lies in it to.  Like
this part, “When the Ibogaine first wore off – I wasn’t sick yet–just
feeling kind of normal. At around five in the morning, my supervisor and I
began celebrating (prematurely). We were dancing around the room like
idiots. I was so happy. I really thought it had worked.”  According to the
previous paragraph or two this is like 40 hours after the first ibogaine
dose so they should have been well into withdrawal territory, yet they say
later the withdrawals all of a sudden came on a little later.  I also never
heard of anyone who could dance around the room at 40 hours into ibogaine
(at least not without great effort) and when I used it to come off of
opiates I felt pretty worn out as the ibo abated.   Then this part,
“Remember that I was kicking heroin and methadone so I was concerned that in
addition to all the pain, I might die.” Either they are grossly uninformed
or they are really just making the whole thing up.  I would think (and maybe
I’m wrong) that most opiate addicts know that you can’t die from opiate
withdrawal.  There were other points but frankly a lot of it just sounds
made up to me.
________________________________
From: Lee Albert [mailto:myeboga@yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 3:58 AM
To: Ibogaine List
Subject: [Ibogaine] Debunking ibogaine
I saw this:
http://www.heroinhelper.com/angry/ibogaine_experience.shtml
Does anyone know anything about this experience?
If they do you can post me off list. I am thinking of posting it on my site.
It might be good to have a debunking section?
Lee
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six
year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those
already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
 /]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
 \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: darkmattersfo@comcast.net
Subject: [Ibogaine] Off Topic: World Communit Grid – HIV
Date: November 23, 2005 at 10:34:14 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
There is a “World Community Grid” reseach project that uses personal pc’s all over the world to perform computational research  to design new anti-HIV drugs based on molecular structure.
A small applet is loaded onto your PC and runs in the back ground. As results are produced they are loaded back up to a research mainframe. By using this type of distributed computing researchers are able to process large amounts of data in a much shorter time. This type of computing has been around and has been/is being used to: Solve complex mathematical problems, seach for extra-terrestrial live, smallpox research, etc.
There are currently over 100,000 people participating in this particular project all over the world. The goal is to get 500,000 involved.
http://www.worldcommunitygrid.org/projects_showcase/viewFaahResearch.do
 /]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
 \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: “Matthew Shriver” <matt@itsupport.net>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Debunking ibogaine
Date: November 23, 2005 at 10:18:13 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Honestly this thing sounds more than a little made up to me.  At the least they have an anti-ibogaine agenda (which is fine, to each his own) but it seriously looks like there are a number of outright lies in it to.  Like this part, “When the Ibogaine first wore off – I wasn’t sick yet–just feeling kind of normal. At around five in the morning, my supervisor and I began celebrating (prematurely). We were dancing around the room like idiots. I was so happy. I really thought it had worked.”  According to the previous paragraph or two this is like 40 hours after the first ibogaine dose so they should have been well into withdrawal territory, yet they say later the withdrawals all of a sudden came on a little later.  I also never heard of anyone who could dance around the room at 40 hours into ibogaine (at least not without great effort) and when I used it to come off of opiates I felt pretty worn out as the ibo abated.   Then this part, “Remember that I was kicking heroin and methadone so I was concerned that in addition to all the pain, I might die.” Either they are grossly uninformed or they are really just making the whole thing up.  I would think (and maybe I’m wrong) that most opiate addicts know that you can’t die from opiate withdrawal.  There were other points but frankly a lot of it just sounds made up to me.
From: Lee Albert [mailto:myeboga@yahoo.co.uk] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 3:58 AM
To: Ibogaine List
Subject: [Ibogaine] Debunking ibogaine
I saw this:
http://www.heroinhelper.com/angry/ibogaine_experience.shtml
Does anyone know anything about this experience?
If they do you can post me off list. I am thinking of posting it on my site. It might be good to have a debunking section?
Lee
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Giorgio Samorini Discussing Eboga
Date: November 23, 2005 at 7:54:40 AM EST
To: Ibogaine List <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Thought this might be of interest to some:
www.pot-tv.net/ram/pottvshowse708.ram
Pot TV – Entheogens 101: Giorgio Samorini 10 min 30 May, 2001 – In a facinating interview, Reverand Damuzi and guest host Aivia talk with Italian entheogen researcher and writer Giorgio Samorini about the use of cannabis and ibogaine for shamanistic purposes amongst certain African tribes. Filmed at the Entheogen2 Conference by Ci Ci.
Lee
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Feelings
Date: November 23, 2005 at 6:09:52 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
AHHHHHHHHH IF I HEAR THAT SONG AGAIN I GONNA SMASH THE RADIO!!!
HJAHAHAHAHA
          Sorry the station over here plays it very five damn minutes!!
Ok now I read the rest of your email
Heheeehhehe
Sorry….
Hurrrr hummm
k
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com [mailto:BiscuitBoy714@aol.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, 23 November 2005 6:06 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com; drugwar@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Feelings
I was riding down the rode tonight and that song by Nickel Back came on…………..Look at this photagraph ………..Every time I do it makes me laugh…………………you know the one. When he got to the part where he said “It’s time to say it” “it’s time to say it good bye Good bye……………..I burst into tears. This aint a great song or anything I think it’s drop D and it kinda grinds and the bass part is pretty cool……………but I’m not trying to crtique here, I guess what I’m sayin’ is I can’t do that……………..say goodbye……………….I can’t let go of the past. I still love my ex wife even tho she is an evil fu………….never mind. I still have all my friends from school on my side, I still have the admeration of alllllllllllll my lovers, wait……..did I spell that right?…………OK One girl is still pissed but that is another story……………….my brothers still love me even tho I put them thru hell…………..my mother is right with me on the Ibogaine thing, my son is as smart as I could ever hope for……….he smokes wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy to much po…….. I can’t say that, but he is so cool he doesn’t even know it. I guess what I mean is I have sooo many things from my past that are cool (I aint even gonna tell ya about the gigs I’ve done) that I can’t assertain the good from the bad. ” So what does a poor boy do ‘cept for play in a rock roll band cause in sleepy London town there’s just no place for a street fightin’ mannnnnnnnnnnn no” Damn it I can’t keep the music outta my head. You would think that Ibogaine would have  delved on these things……. it didn’t happen that way for me. I was on Methadone and I took my test dose on Tuesday It took a shit load of HCL  to cut thru and that is defenitly another story,,,the next thing I knew it was Saturday and I wasn’t addicted anymore. I tripped hard for about 3 days. It was the most beautiful thing I have ever seen or done……….fuck I have no spell ckecjer…………….anyway I saw all these things from my past and none of them were the scary shit I expected……….it was……………………love. That’s how it felt……love. Some of you have heard my story, my son was with me the whole time and he had a halo on his head, my brothers looked at me and nodded their head in ageement that I was doing the right thing, I took a space ship ride and I wasn’t drivin’ the space ship……………….how do they get that much power from the small reactor that was on the ship? I saw the Africans and the were all smiling at me………….I could go on for a long time about my trip but suffice to say it changed me forever. I didn’t see the guy I shot, I didn’t see the violence that used to rule my life, I didn’t see any of that. Why is that? Maybe the Bwiti in their ultimate wisdom didn’t think I was ready to deal with all that shit. I guess I need to do about 20 mgs per kg and go back………or is it forward? I was an evil son of a bitch in my addiction. I guess I need to talk to my provider………….which one? and go for it again. These guys are soooooooooooooooooooooo fucking cool. When you look ’em in the eye you can just tell they love you………….they don’t even have to know anything about your past they just love you. No questions asked, they just love ya. Ibogaine is about love, I don’t give a fuck if you shot Kennedy they love ya anyway. By the way way I have an opinion about what happened in Dallas that day,,,,,,,,,,,I better shut up here or I’ll have to shoot some other mother fuck………….Damn, see? ……………but I’m into guns and am very up on ballistics and a bullet traveling about 2800 feet per secound……….it was a 6.5 caliber Caranco .or any bullet for that matter will not blow a brain backwards, it takes a frontal shot to do what happened to him, you’ve seen the film……..remeber how his head blew backwards? I can guess but we will never know what happened for sure but the Magruder film says it all. He was shot from the front. I’d say it was a 3006 traveling about 3000 feet per secound,,,,,,, about a 150 grain bullet, do the math. See? I’m so fucked up in the head about my past. All those nukes…………..let me tell ya about nuclear warfare…………………better not. When I saw the towers fall I was expecting to see a nuclear stike somewhere in the US. I went out and bought 20 40 mg oxy’s and that didn’t make me feel any better so I went to Buffaloe and bought 3 bundles. I shot it all in about 3 days. I wish I could quit thinking about these things but I can’t. I’m clean(whatever that means) and I’m still contemplating what happened 30 years ago. Maybe I should call Patrick and we can discuss nuclear fussion…………..What a minute……….my father in law (who I love dearly) has a brother who was in on the Manhaten project this dude was Oppenheimers buddy) lets ask him………….Naaaaaaaaa they will take the secret to the grave. I’m sooooooooo fucked up but I admit it. See where my head goes? I’m just writing here, don’t take this seriously or anything……….It’s just how I feel at the time. Kill me if you don’t like it or take that dull ass needle and sharpen it up on a match book cover  and stick it up your…………………………..I’m so sick but Ibogaine told me to look out for the things that fuck you up in life. That’s why I am writing this.           Thanks for listening. I love you all…………………You can’t make not love you               Randy
From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Debunking ibogaine
Date: November 23, 2005 at 5:58:20 AM EST
To: Ibogaine List <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I saw this:
http://www.heroinhelper.com/angry/ibogaine_experience.shtml
Does anyone know anything about this experience?
If they do you can post me off list. I am thinking of posting it on my site. It might be good to have a debunking section?
Lee
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Feelings
Date: November 23, 2005 at 12:06:18 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com, drugwar@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I was riding down the rode tonight and that song by Nickel Back came on…………..Look at this photagraph ………..Every time I do it makes me laugh…………………you know the one. When he got to the part where he said “It’s time to say it” “it’s time to say it good bye Good bye……………..I burst into tears. This aint a great song or anything I think it’s drop D and it kinda grinds and the bass part is pretty cool……………but I’m not trying to crtique here, I guess what I’m sayin’ is I can’t do that……………..say goodbye……………….I can’t let go of the past. I still love my ex wife even tho she is an evil fu………….never mind. I still have all my friends from school on my side, I still have the admeration of alllllllllllll my lovers, wait……..did I spell that right?…………OK One girl is still pissed but that is another story……………….my brothers still love me even tho I put them thru hell…………..my mother is right with me on the Ibogaine thing, my son is as smart as I could ever hope for……….he smokes wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy to much po…….. I can’t say that, but he is so cool he doesn’t even know it. I guess what I mean is I have sooo many things from my past that are cool (I aint even gonna tell ya about the gigs I’ve done) that I can’t assertain the good from the bad. ” So what does a poor boy do ‘cept for play in a rock roll band cause in sleepy London town there’s just no place for a street fightin’ mannnnnnnnnnnn no” Damn it I can’t keep the music outta my head. You would think that Ibogaine would have  delved on these things……. it didn’t happen that way for me. I was on Methadone and I took my test dose on Tuesday It took a shit load of HCL  to cut thru and that is defenitly another story,,,the next thing I knew it was Saturday and I wasn’t addicted anymore. I tripped hard for about 3 days. It was the most beautiful thing I have ever seen or done……….fuck I have no spell ckecjer…………….anyway I saw all these things from my past and none of them were the scary shit I expected……….it was……………………love. That’s how it felt……love. Some of you have heard my story, my son was with me the whole time and he had a halo on his head, my brothers looked at me and nodded their head in ageement that I was doing the right thing, I took a space ship ride and I wasn’t drivin’ the space ship……………….how do they get that much power from the small reactor that was on the ship? I saw the Africans and the were all smiling at me………….I could go on for a long time about my trip but suffice to say it changed me forever. I didn’t see the guy I shot, I didn’t see the violence that used to rule my life, I didn’t see any of that. Why is that? Maybe the Bwiti in their ultimate wisdom didn’t think I was ready to deal with all that shit. I guess I need to do about 20 mgs per kg and go back………or is it forward? I was an evil son of a bitch in my addiction. I guess I need to talk to my provider………….which one? and go for it again. These guys are soooooooooooooooooooooo fucking cool. When you look ’em in the eye you can just tell they love you………….they don’t even have to know anything about your past they just love you. No questions asked, they just love ya. Ibogaine is about love, I don’t give a fuck if you shot Kennedy they love ya anyway. By the way way I have an opinion about what happened in Dallas that day,,,,,,,,,,,I better shut up here or I’ll have to shoot some other mother fuck………….Damn, see? ……………but I’m into guns and am very up on ballistics and a bullet traveling about 2800 feet per secound……….it was a 6.5 caliber Caranco .or any bullet for that matter will not blow a brain backwards, it takes a frontal shot to do what happened to him, you’ve seen the film……..remeber how his head blew backwards? I can guess but we will never know what happened for sure but the Magruder film says it all. He was shot from the front. I’d say it was a 3006 traveling about 3000 feet per secound,,,,,,, about a 150 grain bullet, do the math. See? I’m so fucked up in the head about my past. All those nukes…………..let me tell ya about nuclear warfare…………………better not. When I saw the towers fall I was expecting to see a nuclear stike somewhere in the US. I went out and bought 20 40 mg oxy’s and that didn’t make me feel any better so I went to Buffaloe and bought 3 bundles. I shot it all in about 3 days. I wish I could quit thinking about these things but I can’t. I’m clean(whatever that means) and I’m still contemplating what happened 30 years ago. Maybe I should call Patrick and we can discuss nuclear fussion…………..What a minute……….my father in law (who I love dearly) has a brother who was in on the Manhaten project this dude was Oppenheimers buddy) lets ask him………….Naaaaaaaaa they will take the secret to the grave. I’m sooooooooo fucked up but I admit it. See where my head goes? I’m just writing here, don’t take this seriously or anything……….It’s just how I feel at the time. Kill me if you don’t like it or take that dull ass needle and sharpen it up on a match book cover  and stick it up your…………………………..I’m so sick but Ibogaine told me to look out for the things that fuck you up in life. That’s why I am writing this.           Thanks for listening. I love you all…………………You can’t make not love you               Randy
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]Don’t read this unless you like crop circles
Date: November 22, 2005 at 8:15:50 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Randy……….lmao! I just don’t know what to say! I sure wish I was with you though!
hahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!
Callie
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]Don’t read this unless you like crop circles
Date: November 22, 2005 at 4:52:48 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com, drugwar@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
OK, I’m fried and I want to write. Hash oil is a hella of thing. I was in …………you name the place and I woke up in the middle of a corn field. THEN the thought occured to me that we need to make a crop circle. Where in the fuck am I? Who cares? Lets make a crop circle. I wanted to draw a real pretty picture, but I just didn’t know how, I aint an artist. But I couldn’t get it outta my head. What is a poor boy to do? Sooooooooooooooooo I forced my friends into pulling the car over. With a vengence. They had no choice. I can be real addimit (did I spell that right?) when I want to. I get outta the car and I’m looking for a board to make the circle with. Fuck it, lets use my Thin Line. …………………..NAAAAAAAAAAAA I can’t use my ax, lets think of something else. SOOO I find a stick………..a tobbaco stick. I gues that is what it was. So I start to stompin”. Have you ever tried to make a crop circle? It aint easy. I stomped my ass off. It still didn’t look right. We need a copter I said. So we stold one. It still didn’t look rigtht from the air. FUCK…………………now what? That’s when I saw the dragon. It had green eyes and fire was coming outta his mouth. It was screaming I’m cummin’ for ya. When I pulled my pistal out the dragaon just laughed. Whatcha gonna do with that? Give me all you got. It scared the shit outta me. I had a 40 Smith and Wesson and I was still out gunned. Then the dragon landed and told me to be cool. So I did. It told me that I was never gonna be bad enough to keep the devil off of me. It takes a simple mind and real love to get along. Sooooooooo I love you all.     You can’t stop me.   Randy
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]Don’t read this
Date: November 22, 2005 at 3:48:46 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com, drugwar@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Let me tell ya a story. My buddy whoever was supposed to show up with some heroin. It didn’t happen…………………..but he did show up with the best LSD I have ever done. Windowpain………………….Gold, Clear, and so awsome I can hardly describe it. I was so pissed off that he didn’t have what I wanted that I was ready to kick his ass. Then the LSD kicked in. I still can feel the effects. He had a piece of it in his eye. He showed me. I guess that is why he doesn’t have a broken leg. I had to respect that. When I felt what was going to happen I just shuddered and took a deep breath and let it happen. It was allmost as intense as Ibogaine. Allmost. My girlfriend was there and thank God she was. I still love her. I guess she is with God.. She was killed in a car wreck about 20 years ago. I still cry about her. I could feel it coming on and it scared me. I knew it was going to be a hell of a trip. I saw Benjimen Franklin. Aint he cool? He told me a lot of things about life. Maybe that is why I’m still alive. He told me that life is a mission and that we are here to learn. Ben is the smatest guy I ever had a conversation with. And I did have a conversation with him. He is not afraid of anything. Nothing makes him nervous. He knew about smokeless powder way before it came into play. I payed attention when he talked. The intensity of the LSD allmost overwhelmed me. But when he was talking I was right there with him. He didn’t say shit about the kite. That is too obvious. He did talk about my mother and how smart she is. She saved my life. I didn’t get to talk to him about the glass flute that he came up with. I guess he didn’t think it was that important. I saw him, I aint shittin’ ya, Me and Ben? we be brothers.               Randy
From: jamilah@erols.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Error
Date: November 21, 2005 at 8:09:59 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
The message cannot be represented in 7-bit ASCII encoding and has been sent as a binary attachment.
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fw: [DrugWar] Fw: DBMAIL: delivery failure
Date: November 21, 2005 at 5:57:17 PM EST
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>, <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Unfortunately, that is Kirk’s email, I believe, someone who was originally on the ibogaine list, and now I believe is also subscribed to the DrugWar.com list. If the constant “Mailbox is full” messages bother you, please either delete them or set your mail to eject them to your deleted box automatically, as Kirk doesn’t seem to be able to get the internet service to do anything about those messages.
  I apologize to the group as a whole, as they do get a little frustrating, but hitting delete is a fairly simple, easy to manage sport, so I hope you all manage to work around these incessent messages. I don’t think Patrick can do much about it though, and poor Kirk has gone through hell trying to get these messages to stop.
Peace and love,
Preston
—– Original Message —– From: SherriTheWriter@aol.com
To: drugwar@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 4:42 PM
Subject: Re: [DrugWar] Fw: DBMAIL: delivery failure
En un mensaje con fecha 11/21/2005 4:33:33 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, elgrekkko@carolina.rr.com escribe:
BTW, I’m getting a copy of this sent to my inbox with every post I send to
drugwar. I just thought Patrick, or somebody, might want to know. I know my
posts are getting there b/c people are responding, but these messages make
it look like something’s up with the servers. No problem here, I just delete
them, but someone up there just might want to be informed.
I get them too, seems to be an announcement that someone’s e-mail in-box is full.
Sharon Secor, Freelance Writer
Secor’s Writing Service
http://www.sharonsecor.rr.nu
Guest Editor, Strike The Root, A Journal of Liberty
http://strike-the-root.com
Practicing Resistance and Raising Revolutionaries
http://sharonsecor.blogspot.com
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From: “Matthew Shriver” <matt@itsupport.net>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] (OT) Re: [Ibogaine]test     test      test
Date: November 21, 2005 at 10:24:48 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Preston
I quit smoking after 17 years using wellbutrin and the patch.  I also chewed
gum (not the nicotine kind) in all those situations where I would have
smoked (like driving, after a meal, etc…)  But even doing all that, I had
to try three times within about 9 months for it to stick.  I kept thinking I
could practice controlled smoking after I had quit.  Like once I said to
myself, “I’ll only smoke with my morning cup of coffee.”  Yeah right.  But
nowdays, I can smell if someone in the next car is smoking at the stop
light.  I can’t believe how much it stinks to me now.  It is literally a
surprise to me from time to time to realize how much it smells and to
realize how much it must have affected non-smokers around me when I did
smoke.  I strongly encourage you to give it a go, and if needed, give it two
or three goes.  It’s totally do-able.  Good luck.
As to the other topic you mentioned, just being in NA doesn’t preclude me
from knowing and caring about what you are going through.  When I hear
people talk about that, I remember all too well what being dope sick was
like and what a monumental undertaking it was to try and “get by” with too
little opiate.  Uggg, I don’t envy you a bit, but I support your effort to
change your situation.
Matt
—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2005 9:44 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT) Re: [Ibogaine]test test test
you passed this test with flying colors…I take it it was multiple choice?
;-))
Please all think strong, positive thoughts for me as I go see my doc
tomorrow, for strength of will and dedication to my choice of new paths. I
realize that your thinking good thoughts really in the end doesn’t do much
concrete to help me in my decision making, but it’s nice to know that there
are others out there in a non-NA/AA/etcA setting that care and know what I’m
going through, and how freakin’ difficult it can get at times- the mental
battles are as bad at times as the physical pains AND withdrawal problems.
   So my point is, you none of you have to respond- just think for me in
positive ways for a few more days at least, that I remain true to myself, to
what I think I really do want more than not.
Then of course, there’s that other horrific addiction I am dealing with –
tobacoo. The tobacco does more damage to me physically than any opiate use
does, but it’s not so socially unacceptable. The irony. V hate the smell of
my smoking, particularly after I’ve been smoking all day, or when I get up
very early, go to the rest room and have a smoke then come back to bed
reeking of cigarettes- and I hate the reaction from her, which leaves me
feeling like dirt aband full of guilt for subjecting her to the stench
non-stop- at least I’m smoking outside the apartment or in the bathroom only
now, and this is a new thing as of a couple months ago. But I need to stop
completely. I’ve been taking Wellbutron for three weeks now- so I should be
able to set a date now to quit, right? I also have two boxes of patches left
from what the city of NY sent me a few months ago when I called their
stop-smoking phone line. I may try to use those for a few days to help, to
see what happens. I just dread putting on a patch, then deciding I rEALLY
need a smoke, and then have to take it off, wasting the patch just so I can
have one smoke that doesn’t get me high, clogs up my lungs, and slows down
my circulation, not to mention makes me smell and feel unhealthy.
   I’m ranting ’cause I’m nervous about tomrorrow.
Good night and sweet dreams all.
Peace and love,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2005 3:47 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]test test test
test          ests          stet
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From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: [Ibogaine] ot) Herbal Course
Date: November 21, 2005 at 7:00:30 AM EST
To: Ibogaine List <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi,
Just wanted to ask if anyone knows of a good online herbology course which does not require attendence or at the very least attendance somewhere in Europe? Something along the lines of 6/9 months or a year.
Lee
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (OT) Re: [Ibogaine]test     test      test – Smoking/ibo
Date: November 21, 2005 at 6:55:59 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Preston,
I am keeping you in my thoughts.
This thing about tobacco. For what its worth i don’t think that ibo works as well for tobacco as it does for opiates. It will kill the wd from nicotine but you still have to be on guard against the cravings. I know you are not doing ibo but I thought I might just mention it. There is so much else going on with smoking.
Clearly ibo is much better with opiates it would seem.
It is said that nicotine is the hardest drug to kick. I find that when I relapse I have to smoke all this other shit just to get the nicotine high and then after a while you dont notice the other shit but you do feel like shit with all that crap going into you.
Smoking is amazingly bad and it seems that in Spain its a national institution.
The problem with smoking is when you get older it catches up on you and you have to pay the piper!
Sending pos. vibes………
Lee
Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
you passed this test with flying colors…I take it it was multiple choice?
;-))
Please all think strong, positive thoughts for me as I go see my doc
tomorrow, for strength of will and dedication to my choice of new paths. I
realize that your thinking good thoughts really in the end doesn’t do much
concrete to help me in my decision making, but it’s nice to know that there
are others out there in a non-NA/AA/etcA setting that care and know what I’m
going through, and how freakin’ difficult it can get at times- the mental
battles are as bad at times as the physical pains AND withdrawal problems.
So my point is, you none of you have to respond- just think for me in
positive ways for a few more days at least, that I remain true to myself, to
what I think I really do want more than not.
Then of course, there’s that other horrific addiction I am dealing with –
tobacoo. The tobacco does more damage to me physically than any opiate use
does, but it’s not so socially unacceptable. The irony. V hate the smell of
my smoking, particularly after I’ve been smoking all day, or when I get up
very early, go to the rest room and have a smoke then come back to bed
reeking of cigarettes- and I hate the reaction from her, which leaves me
feeling like dirt aband full of guilt for subjecting her to the stench
non-stop- at least I’m smoking outside the apartment or in the bathroom only
now, and this is a new thing as of a couple months ago. But I need to stop
completely. I’ve been taking Wellbutron for three weeks now- so I should be
able to set a date now to quit, right? I also have two boxes of patches left
from what the city of NY sent me a few months ago when I called their
stop-smoking phone line. I may try to use those for a few days to help, to
see what happens. I just dread putting on a patch, then deciding I rEALLY
need a smoke, and then have to take it off, wasting the patch just so I can
have one smoke that doesn’t get me high, clogs up my lungs, and slows down
my circulation, not to mention makes me smell and feel unhealthy.
I’m ranting ’cause I’m nervous about tomrorrow.
Good night and sweet dreams all.
Peace and love,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2005 3:47 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]test test test
test ests stet
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Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
From: “E.Claudia” <ecbl@cox.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] RE: Neurotransmitters depletion / aminoacid therapy under doctor supervision
Date: November 21, 2005 at 3:06:04 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Guys,
Please  read Dr Kaslow article about neurotransmitters depletion and the neuroresearch web site. I started my had treatment with amionoacids  4 years ago because of my hormonal dysfunction. and it worked for me, changed my life. Because I could not  tolerated zolof, paxil & prozac. I felt that I was a time bomb ready to explode. I was taking  anti depresants when I had a HMO insurance. I decided to go out of the network I followed my intuition. I went to see a doctor that prescribe the  Neuroresearch products ( neuroreplete that has vitamin C, B6, folate, lL-Lysine, 5HTP, Ltyrosine & Cyreplete that has selenium, folate, L-cysteine, combined with b complex shots, minerals, omega 3, 9 and yoga, swiming, jacuzzi etc. A natural way to re-build your self. It takes work and determination. It is like any health problem like abesity, or addictions there is not cure but you can control the problem with changing the way we live.
See doctors Kaslow and Volpe articles about neurotransmitters depletion. You have to be under the supervision of a doctor if your condition is delicate. You are dealing with chemistry of the brain.  The third link is neuroresearch the company that produce the aminoacids. I beleive this is the way to get control of yourself and be in harmony.
God bless you all!
http://www.drkaslow.com/html/neurotransmitter_depletion.html
http://www.doctorvolpe.com/anxiety.html
http://neuroassist.com/Seminarbibliography1/
http://neuroassist.com/disease.htm
HOW SSRI’S DEPLETE NEUROTRANSMITTER LEVELS
Martin Hinz, MD is a leading clinician in neurotransmitters deficiency and weight loss management. For several years he has been saying, “drugs that work with neurotransmitters do not work if there is not enough neurotransmitters to work with”. When the first journal article on the subject published by Delgado from the University of Arizona stated, “NE-selective antidepressant drugs appear to be primarily dependent on the availability of NE for their effects. Likewise, 5-HT-selective antidepressants appear to be primarily dependent on the availability of 5-HT for their effects.” NE” is short for norepinephrine and “5-HT” is short for 5-hydroxytryptophan, which is better known as serotonin. This study verified what Dr. Hinz had been saying, “drugs that work with neurotransmitters do not work if there are not enough neurotransmitters to work with.”
It has been observed that the “clinical response with regards to neurotransmitter levels is like a light switch; it is either on or off”.  If you keep this in mind you will be able to understand neurotransmitter depletion by the drugs that are supposed to be correcting the problem (SSRIs like Prozac, Zoloft, Paxil, Celexa, Effexor, Luvox, Sarafem, etc.; SNRIs like Effexor).  Some medications actually increase the excretion of neurotransmitters.  Paxil is among the worst at wasting neurotransmitters.
THE PATHWAY TO SSRI DEPLETION:
1. REDISTRIBUTION: SSRI medications work by redistributing neurotransmitters from one place to another in the brain. In the process the brain is tricked into thinking there is more serotonin when in fact there is not one additional molecule of serotonin formed by the process. All that has occurred is the intersynaptic levels of serotonin are increased. Synapses are the connections between nerves. For discussion sake, one end of the nerve sends a message and one end of a nerve receives a message. The region that these nerve endings is a bulb-like region that is the site of serotonin release from one nerve as it passes information (the chemical message in the form of serotonin) to the site of serotonin uptake on the next nerve. Increasing the level of serotonin in these synapses is how SSRI medications have their effect – they inhibit the sending nerve from taking back up (or “re-uptaking”) the serotonin.
2. DEPLETION FROM INADEQUATE NUTRITION: In Dr. Hinz’ work with amino acids, he has come to believe and appreciate that inadequate levels of serotonin and norepinephrine precursors in the diet are the number one cause of neurotransmitter depletion. Many of my patients have had the levels of the two most common neurotransmitters, norepinephrine and serotonin, monitored in a special urine analysis for many years. In fact, a recently added in-office questionnaire may help identify those individuals who may have imbalances in other neurotransmitters like histamine.
3. DEPLETION WITH SSRI MEDICATIONS (the theory we are working under now): As the level of intersynaptic neurotransmitters increase, the Monoamine Oxidase (MAO) system is stimulated and increases the breakdown of neurotransmitters. If you do not increase the nutritional intake of serotonin and norepinephrine precursors in patients that are being treated with antidepressants, the net effect is further depletion over time. More and more medication is required with greater and greater depletion leading to a vicious cycle of progressively more medication need with less and less effect.
Practicing physicians have all too often seen the following scenario. A patient presents with depression and is started on Zoloft, for example. After 2 weeks of treatment the patient reports that the depression is improved, but 9 months later the patient literally wakes up one day, and from the patient’s perspective the Zoloft, is no longer working because the depression has returned. The patient tries to quit the Zoloft and finds that he/she feels worse than ever. What has happened is as predicted by the above.
This is the exact way we have been explaining it to patients based on the above hypothesis. Because of a nutritional deficiency, the patient’s neurotransmitter levels dropped below the level needed to keep him/her disease free and depression developed. When the patient took the Zoloft, only the intersynaptic levels of serotonin increased above the level to be disease free. In the following months while on Zoloft, the MAO system increased the breakdown of serotonin and with no additional nutritional intake of serotonin precursors, the intersynaptic levels of neurotransmitters decline. When they fell below the level needed to keep the patient disease free, the depression returns.
Every MD has seen numerous patients who were on antidepressants (SSRIs) that seemed to quit working. When the proper amino acids that are the building blocks of neurotransmitters are provided, the benefits of the medications resume within one to two weeks.
My goal is to provide the most effective nutritional support so that your SSRI will be effective for the longest duration necessary or to replace the need for SSRI by improving the overall level of serotonin or other neurotransmitter without drugs. It is noteworthy that the largest producer of serotonin in the body is not the brain, but rather the gastrointestinal tract. A healthy colon does more than provide adequate digestion!
Depletion of the neurotransmitters may be only part of the story.  Some of the medications seem to be causing damage to the nerves as well.  This has been shown with several weight loss medications (amphetamines) actually cause long term damage to the nerves and this is why the medications have less and less of an effect with each course of usage.  This may explain why the government has taken the amphetamines, Dexatrim  and phenylpropanolamine, off the market.
Caffeine, ephedrine, ephedra, and other stimulants (herbal or otherwise) also promote the depletion of neurotransmitters.
From: Carol Ann [mailto:saffireskyes@yahoo.com] 
Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2005 12:43 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] 5 hydroxy-tryptophane- Serotonin – Antidepressants
What the articles, from my interpretation,  are in part trying to convey is that since the advent of modern Psychiatry, the availability and  prolific use of pharmaceuticals, nice, neat blanket labels have been given  to most, if not the majority of perceived or diagnosed mental disorders, which may not even exist. And as the article indicates,  they may be at best circumstantial.  Begs the question…Who does the diagnosis the diagnose rs?

Did modern psychiatry create a need, a market. Definitely.  Before such an industry existed, and yes, it is a rapidly growing industry,  what appeared as abhorrent, socially unacceptable mental behavior was often attributed to possession.  Such theories were laughed out of the industry as being draconian and superstitious. Modern “Psychiatrists” are in actuality taking the  place of Witch Doctors and Shamans but are to ashamed to acknowledge the role. Doesn’t sound very prestigious, does it. 

The thrust of this forum is focused upon spiritual healing through the use of ethnogens which calls for a tremendous amount of subjectivity and interpretation. The individual experience is given priority and most importantly, empowerment through “self” analysis. 

 The primary use of these types of drugs (Ibo) cause phenomenological amplification towards the symbolism of what is observed. Empirical medicine is  more concerned with pathology, the restoration of technical functioning which is barely understood.  While legally prescribed Rx’s like Zoloft, Prozac, Ritalin, Paxol,  etc. fall within the same category, possibly acting more familiar transmitters……… 

”The relapse rate for  patients on pills is higher than for those getting cognitive-behavior  psychotherapy.”

I know people, as I am sure you do, that have been taking sanctioned drugs for as long as 20 years with no signs of any serious or significant improvement other than the day to day management of the imbalances so that they can function, often marginally.


Fact is TPTB will never make a case for drugs such as Ibo, Amanita Muscaria, Salvia, etc. .  To do so would rattle profits, marginalize a growing industry, and most importantly, lead to personal empowerment. 

Jon, conclusions cannot be made within various related medical Establishment. Its rather refreshing to see the more conscientious minded and perhaps more ethical   begin to strike out and question their own pseudo-scientific data and treatment  modalities. 

Regards,
Carol Ann


jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu> wrote:

Well, I think it’s clear that the biological basis of depression is more 
complicated than just having low levels of serotonin. Some people with 
depression repsond well to SSRIs, some respond well to SNRIs, some 
respond well to SARIs, some respond well to NaSSAs, etc. Clearly, there 
are multiple neurotransmitter systems involved and there may very well 
be as-of-yet undiscovered neurotransmitters involved as well.

But to conclude that mental disorders are NOT related to chemical 
imbalances AT ALL is to throw the baby out with the bath water. 
Furthermore, it just doesn’t make logical sense… “normal” mood states 
are a result of chemcial interactions in the brain, so “abnormal” mood 
states must also be the result of chemical interactions in the brain; 
presumably of “abnormal” chemical interactions. Such a hypothesis is 
further supported by the fact that mental illness can be induced by 
introducing certain chemicals to the brain.

I think it’s reasonable to conclude that the chemical imbalances 
responsible for mental illness are more complex than we are currently 
aware of, but to conclude that mental illness is NOT a result of 
chemical imbalance is a logical fallacy.

> > An M.D. in Duluth runs a non-prescription-drug Mental Health Clinic, and
> > uses 5HTP on almost all of his patients who show depression, insomnia,
> > etc. He swears by it. I’ve been using it just to help maintain my
> > sleep, as it is breaking up due to my age (72 y.o.). Certainly seems
> > harmless and may be doing some good. No side effects, but at least I
> > have the assurance that my body can maybe make the serotonin it needs.
> > The psychiatric antidepressant drugs DON’T MAKE serotonin, they just
> > unbalance the body’s destruction of serotonin, and in doing so are
> > Habit-Forming, leading to “withdrawal symptoms” when the
> > anti-depressants are stopped. Anybody coming off SSRIs should use
> > this! Good luck. Dr. Ed
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Opinion – Vera Hassner Sharav
> 2. THE WALL STREET JOURNAL and SCIENCE JOURNAL
> ___________________________________________________________________________
> 
> ALLIANCE FOR HUMAN RESEARCH PROTECTION (AHRP)
> Promoting Openness, Full Disclosure, and Accountability www.ahrp.org
> 
> One after another of psychiatry’s theoretical constructs and therapeutic 
> armamentarium have been knocked down and relegated to the dust-heap of 
> pseudo-scientific history. None of psychiatry’s claims have withstood 
> the test of scientific scrutiny. The very core upon which psychiatry’s 
> practice guidelines are based–using drugs to restore a “chemical 
> imbalance” in the brain– has been shown to be nothing but 
> unsubstantiated speculation.
> 
> Jeffrey Lacasse and Jonathan Leo, Ph.D., the authors of “Serotonin and 
> depression: A disconnect between the advertisements and the scientific 
> literature,” published in PLoS Medicine, have delivered a decisive blow 
> to psychiatry’s unubstantiated claim about a “chemical imbalance” in the 
> brain of people who suffer from depression –or other psychological / 
> emotional ailments.
> 
> The article, by a professor of anatomy and a doctoral student, is 
> receiving wide attention both in the general and medical news 
> media–Nature, WebMD, Medscape, UPI, New Scientist, the Wall Street Journal.
> 
> When confronted with evidence refuting this mantra of biological 
> psychiatry, Wayne Goodman, chair of the FDA’s psychopharmacologic 
> advisory committee admited in The New Scientist, that the “chemical 
> imbalance” story is but a “useful metaphor.”
> 
> WSJ health columnist, Sharon Begley, points out that “For many, SSRIs 
> help little, if at all. To do better, we have to get the science right.”
> 
> But instead of science, the public and health care professionals have 
> been fed a bill of goods:
> “Prozac, Zoloft, and Paxil ads and glowing accounts in the press have 
> turned patients with depression into veritable pharmacologists, able to 
> rattle off” the serotonin chemical imbalance script they have been fed 
> by SSRI drug manufacturers and the psychiatric establishment. But 
> Lacasse and Leo found that: “Not a single peer-reviewed article … 
> support[s] claims of serotonin deficiency in any mental disorder.”
> 
> “Low serotonin levels no more cause depression than low aspirin levels 
> cause headache.
> Yet, not only company advertisements but leading psychiatrists have 
> deluded the public for decades with such false claims:
> 
> To cite but two examples:
> NYU Child Study Center website assures families:
> “Our faculty and staff have special expertise in dealing with all 
> aspects of Depressive Disorders.” Then proceeds to state: “Depression 
> is most likely due to an inherited predisposition to a chemical 
> imbalance in the brain.”
> See: http://aboutourkids.org/aboutour/disorders/depressive.html
> Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons Kreichman PET 
> Center lists two courses offered by John Mann, MD.
> 
> “4294 PET Mapping of Serotonin Transporters …Find out if / what 
> changes in brain chemistry can cause an episode of depression. 
> Serotonin is an important chemical in the brain and deficiency of 
> serotonin is thought to underlie major depression.”
> 
> 3752 In Vivo PET Imaging of the Serotonin Transporter (SERT) and 5HTiA 
> Receptor in Bipolar Disorder. Identify changes in brain chemistry that 
> may cause an episode of depression and/or be associated with suicidal 
> behaviors.” For more information, please contact Dr. Mann at 212-543-5571.
> 
> In 1995, the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention Research Award 
> went to Dr. Mann “for his breakthrough research on serotonin levels as 
> a predictor of suicide risk. Dr. Mann’s research has helped to uncover 
> the chemical imbalances that occur in depressed patients, and his work 
> on hormonal abnormalities in suicidal patients has fostered the 
> development of tests that predict suicide risk. His studies of the 
> different tests measuring perturbations in the brain=B9s secretion of 
> the hormone serotonin have contributed substantially to recent advances 
> in the field.”
> 
> Begley correctly observes that the false “chemical imbalance” premise 
> is misdirecting patients away from potentially better therapeutic 
> options: “The hegemony of the serotonin hypothesis may be keeping 
> patients from a therapy that will help them more in the long term. The 
> relapse rate for patients on pills is higher than for those getting 
> cognitive-behavior psychotherapy.”
> 
> Indeed, unsubstantiated pronouncements by psychiatry’s leadership gave 
> the mental health industry and its patient advocacy front groups 
> pseudo-scientific arguments with which to equate mental illness to 
> physical illnesses–such as diabetes (for which insulin is needed to 
> balance blood-sugar level).
> 
> This patently false comparison gave the psychotropic drug lobby–which 
> includes the National Institute of Mental Health and state mental health 
> agencies–ammunition with which to lobby for drug budget parity. They 
> lobbied for the latest, most expensive medicines to restore a “chemical 
> imbalance” in mental disorders–a claim that Dr. Goodman acknowledges 
> is nothing but “a useful metaphor.”
> 
> That “useful metaphor” was used to deceive patients and the public and 
> to divert health care funds from essential medicines to pay for drugs 
> whose benefit is now largely in doubt, and whose severe adverse effects 
> are undermining patients’ physical and mental health.
> 
> Dr. Goodman admits that he has never revealed the truth to his 
> patients– “I can’t get myself to say that.”
> The fact is the psychiatric establishment has been concealing the truth 
> about the lack of scientific evidence behind all of its theoretical 
> constructs 
> 
> Contact: Vera Hassner Sharav
> 212-595-8974=20 veracare@ahrp.org 
> _________________________________________________
> THE WALL STREET JOURNAL SCIENCE JOURNAL=20 By SHARON BEGLEY
> http://online.wsj.com/img/colhed_begley_sharon.jpg
> 
> Some Drugs Work To Treat Depression, But It Isn’t Clear How November 18, 
> 2005; Page B1 Hardly any patients know how Lipitor lowers cholesterol, 
> how Lotensin reduces blood pressure, or even how ibuprofen erases 
> headaches. But when it comes to Prozac, Zoloft and Paxil, ads and 
> glowing accounts in the press have turned patients with depression into 
> veritable pharmacologists, able to rattle off how these “selective 
> serotonin reuptake inhibitors” keep more of the brain chemical serotonin 
> hanging around in synapses, correcting the neurochemical imbalance that 
> causes depression.
> 
> There is only one problem. “Not a single peer-reviewed article … 
> support[s] claims of serotonin deficiency in any mental disorder,” 
> scientists write in the December issue of the journal PLoS Medicine.
> 
> Indeed, a steady drip of studies have challenged the “serotonin did it” 
> hypothesis. A 2003 mouse experiment suggested that SSRIs work by 
> inducing the birth and growth of new brain neurons, not by monkeying 
> with serotonin.
> In March, a review of decades of research concluded that something other 
> than “changes in chemical balance might underlie depression.” And as 
> Jeffrey Lacasse and Jonathan Leo write in PLoS Medicine, although ads 
> for SSRIs say they correct a chemical imbalance, “there is no such thing 
> as a scientifically correct ‘balance’ of serotonin.”
> 
> How did so many smart people get it so wrong? Medicinal chemist Derek 
> Lowe, who works in drug development for a pharmaceutical firm, offered 
> an explanation in his “In the Pipeline” blog. “I worked on central 
> nervous system drugs for eight years, and I can confidently state that 
> we know just slightly more than jack” about how antidepressants work.
> 
> It is not for lack of trying. In 1965, psychiatrist Joseph Schildkraut 
> of Harvard University suggested that a deficiency of a brain chemical 
> causes depression. With the success of drugs that block the reuptake of 
> these chemicals, that idea started to look pretty good.
> 
> Yet the evidence was always circumstantial. You can’t measure serotonin 
> in the brains of living human beings. The next best thing, measuring 
> the compounds that serotonin breaks down to in cerebrospinal fluid, 
> suggested that clinically depressed patients had less of it than healthy 
> people did.
> But it was never clear whether depression caused those low levels, or 
> vice versa. A 2002 review of these early experiments took them to task 
> for such flaws.
> 
> There had always been data that don’t fit the serotonin-imbalance theory.
> Depleting people’s serotonin levels sometimes changed their mood for the 
> worse and sometimes didn’t. Sending serotonin levels through the roof 
> didn’t help depression, a study found as early as 1975.
> 
> There is little doubt that the SSRIs do what their name says, keeping 
> more serotonin in the brain’s synapses. But the fact “that SSRIs act on 
> the serotonin system does not mean that clinical depression results from 
> a shortage of serotonin,” says Dr. Leo, professor of anatomy at Lake 
> Erie College of Osteopathic Medicine, Bradenton, Fla. No more so, 
> anyway, than the fact that steroid creams help rashes means that rashes 
> are caused by a steroid shortage.
> 
> A clue to how SSRIs do work comes from how long they take to have any 
> effect. They rarely make a dent in depression before three weeks, and 
> sometimes take eight weeks to kick in. But they affect serotonin levels 
> right away. If depression doesn’t lift despite that serotonin hit, the 
> drugs must be doing something else; it’s the something else that eases 
> depression.
> 
> The best evidence so far is that the something else is neurogenesis — 
> the birth of new neurons. When scientists led by Rene Hen of Columbia 
> University and Ronald Duman of Yale blocked neurogenesis in mice, SSRIs 
> had no effect.
> When neurogenesis was unimpeded, SSRIs made the mice less anxious and 
> depressed — for rodents. As best scientists can tell, SSRIs first 
> activate the serotonin system, which is somehow necessary for 
> neurogenesis. That is what takes weeks.
> 
> Claiming that depression results from a brain-chemical imbalance, as ads 
> do, is problematic on several fronts. Patients who believe this are 
> more likely to demand a prescription. If you have a disease caused by 
> too little insulin, you take insulin; if you have one caused by too 
> little serotonin, you take serotonin boosters.
> 
> Most people treated for depression get pills rather than psychotherapy, 
> and this week a study from Stanford University reported that drugs have 
> been supplanting psychotherapy for depressed adolescents. Clinical 
> guidelines call for using both, and for psychotherapy to be the 
> first-line treatment for most kids. Psychotherapy “can be as effective 
> as medications” for major depression, concluded a study in April of 240 
> patients, in the Archives of General Psychiatry. Numerous other studies 
> find the same.
> 
> The hegemony of the serotonin hypothesis may be keeping patients from a 
> therapy that will help them more in the long term. The relapse rate for 
> patients on pills is higher than for those getting cognitive-behavior 
> psychotherapy.
> 
> Some 19 million people in the U.S. suffer from depression in any given 
> year.
> For many, SSRIs help little, if at all. To do better, we have to get 
> the science right.
> 
> Write to Sharon Begley at sciencejournal@wsj.com 
> 
> _____________________________________________________________
> 
> NewScientist.com 
> 
> Television adverts for antidepressants cause anxiety
> * 12 November 2005
> * From New Scientist Print Edition.
> ADVERTS that claim depression is caused by a chemical imbalance, and 
> that antidepressants correct it, are false and should be banned, say two 
> mental health specialists.
> 
> Popular antidepressants such as Prozac and Celexa block the uptake of 
> the neurotransmitter serotonin and have been shown to be slightly better 
> than placebo in treating depression. But low serotonin levels are no 
> more the cause of depression than low aspirin levels are the cause of 
> headaches, argue Jonathan Leo at Lake Erie College of Osteopathic 
> Medicine in Bradenton, Florida, and Jeffrey Lacasse at Florida State 
> University in Tallahassee (Public Library of Science Medicine, DOI:
> 10.1371/journal.pmed.0020392).
> 
> “It has become an absolute mainstay of popular culture,” says Leo. “But 
> there’s very little support for this. We really don’t know what 
> chemicals are involved.”
> 
> Wayne Goodman, chair of the psychopharmacologic advisory committee of 
> the US Food and Drug Administration admits they have a point. He calls 
> the chemical imbalance story a “useful metaphor” but says it is never 
> one he uses when talking to patients. “I can’t get myself to say that.”
> 
> The Irish Medicines Board, the equivalent of the FDA in Ireland, 
> recently banned GlaxoSmithKline from making similar claims in 
> information for patients. Leo and Lacasse want the FDA to follow suit.
> 
> 
> */Beatriz /* wrote:
> 
> I disagree with Jon. I have been using it for the last 5 years and
> it has
> helped me with reducing the intensity and occurrence of my migraines
> as well
> as with the quality of my sleep. I am 47. My father, who is in his 70s,
> started taking it recently to get off benzos and is also benefiting
> from it
> much in the same way and he claims that it has also helped him with his
> rather extreme mood swings.
> Beatriz
> 
> 
> —–Original Message—–
> From: jon [mailto:jfreed1@umbc.edu]
> Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2005 3:44 AM
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] 5 hydroxy-tryptophane
> 
> 5-HTP isn’t generally particularly effective, as it does not readily
> cross the blood brain barrier. Any beneficial effects from it are
> likely
> a placebo effect.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Best regards,
> Carol
> 
> *_______________________________*
> *Never Accept Only Two Choices in Life.*
> *The problems of Today cannot be solved by the same thinking that 
> created them.*
> *-Al Einstein. *
> ** 
> 
> ————————————————————————
> Yahoo! FareChase – Search multiple travel sites in one click. 
> 
> 



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Best regards,
Carol
_______________________________
Never Accept Only Two Choices in Life.
The problems of Today cannot be solved by the same thinking that created them.
-Al Einstein.
Yahoo! FareChase – Search multiple travel sites in one click.
From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:  5-hydroxtryptophane
Date: November 21, 2005 at 12:03:43 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Placebo effect or not, one has to remember that 5-HTP is used by the body to MAKE serotonin.  There is a lot of serotonin all over the body, especially in the blood plate-lets.  How the brain gets it is a complicated question.  Dr. Ed
5-HTP is an intermediary chemical step in the production of serotonin. Tryptophan enters the brain, it’s converted into 5-HTP, and then into serotonin.
Eating foods rich in tryptophan, or taking tryptophan supplements, might be good for depression. I don’t know if any studies have been run on that, but it’d make sense. There is good evidence, though, that eating foods rich in tryptophan or taking tryptophan supplements is better than placebo in inducing sleep.
now i kinda want some turkey….
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT) Re: [Ibogaine]test     test      test
Date: November 20, 2005 at 11:43:49 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
you passed this test with flying colors…I take it it was multiple choice?
;-))
Please all think strong, positive thoughts for me as I go see my doc tomorrow, for strength of will and dedication to my choice of new paths. I realize that your thinking good thoughts really in the end doesn’t do much concrete to help me in my decision making, but it’s nice to know that there are others out there in a non-NA/AA/etcA setting that care and know what I’m going through, and how freakin’ difficult it can get at times- the mental battles are as bad at times as the physical pains AND withdrawal problems.
  So my point is, you none of you have to respond- just think for me in positive ways for a few more days at least, that I remain true to myself, to what I think I really do want more than not.
Then of course, there’s that other horrific addiction I am dealing with – tobacoo. The tobacco does more damage to me physically than any opiate use does, but it’s not so socially unacceptable. The irony. V hate the smell of my smoking, particularly after I’ve been smoking all day, or when I get up very early, go to the rest room and have a smoke then come back to bed reeking of cigarettes- and I hate the reaction from her, which leaves me feeling like dirt aband full of guilt for subjecting her to the stench non-stop- at least I’m smoking outside the apartment or in the bathroom only now, and this is a new thing as of a couple months ago. But I need to stop completely. I’ve been taking Wellbutron for three weeks now- so I should be able to set a date now to quit, right? I also have two boxes of patches left from what the city of NY sent me a few months ago when I called their stop-smoking phone line. I may try to use those for a few days to help, to see what happens. I just dread putting on a patch, then deciding I rEALLY need a smoke, and then have to take it off, wasting the patch just so I can have one smoke that doesn’t get me high, clogs up my lungs, and slows down my circulation, not to mention makes me smell and feel unhealthy.
  I’m ranting ’cause I’m nervous about tomrorrow.
Good night and sweet dreams all.
Peace and love,
Preston
—– Original Message —– From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2005 3:47 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]test test test
test          ests          stet
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From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re:  5-hydroxtryptophane
Date: November 20, 2005 at 11:32:40 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Placebo effect or not, one has to remember that 5-HTP is used by the body to MAKE serotonin.  There is a lot of serotonin all over the body, especially in the blood plate-lets.  How the brain gets it is a complicated question.  Dr. Ed
From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] ???
Date: November 20, 2005 at 4:23:37 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Where did everybody go?  Is Patrick or somebody doing maintenance or what?
cheers
ann
think@francomm.com
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]test     test      test
Date: November 20, 2005 at 3:47:57 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
test          ests          stet
From: Carol Ann <saffireskyes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] 5 hydroxy-tryptophane- Serotonin – Antidepressants
Date: November 20, 2005 at 3:43:26 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
What the articles, from my interpretation,  are in part trying to convey is that since the advent of modern Psychiatry, the availability and  prolific use of pharmaceuticals, nice, neat blanket labels have been given  to most, if not the majority of perceived or diagnosed mental disorders, which may not even exist. And as the article indicates,  they may be at best circumstantial.  Begs the question…Who does the diagnosis the diagnose rs?
Did modern psychiatry create a need, a market. Definitely.  Before such an industry existed, and yes, it is a rapidly growing industry,  what appeared as abhorrent, socially unacceptable mental behavior was often attributed to possession.  Such theories were laughed out of the industry as being draconian and superstitious. Modern “Psychiatrists” are in actuality taking the  place of Witch Doctors and Shamans but are to ashamed to acknowledge the role. Doesn’t sound very prestigious, does it.
The thrust of this forum is focused upon spiritual healing through the use of ethnogens which calls for a tremendous amount of subjectivity and interpretation. The individual experience is given priority and most importantly, empowerment through “self” analysis.
 The primary use of these types of drugs (Ibo) cause phenomenological amplification towards the symbolism of what is observed. Empirical medicine is  more concerned with pathology, the restoration of technical functioning which is barely understood.  While legally prescribed Rx’s like Zoloft, Prozac, Ritalin, Paxol,  etc. fall within the same category, possibly acting more familiar transmitters………
“The relapse rate for  patients on pills is higher than for those getting cognitive-behavior  psychotherapy.”
I know people, as I am sure you do, that have been taking sanctioned drugs for as long as 20 years with no signs of any serious or significant improvement other than the day to day management of the imbalances so that they can function, often marginally.
Fact is TPTB will never make a case for drugs such as Ibo, Amanita Muscaria, Salvia, etc. .  To do so would rattle profits, marginalize a growing industry, and most importantly, lead to personal empowerment.
Jon, conclusions cannot be made within various related medical Establishment. Its rather refreshing to see the more conscientious minded and perhaps more ethical   begin to strike out and question their own pseudo-scientific data and treatment  modalities.
Regards,
Carol Ann
jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu> wrote:
Well, I think it’s clear that the biological basis of depression is more
complicated than just having low levels of serotonin. Some people with
depression repsond well to SSRIs, some respond well to SNRIs, some
respond well to SARIs, some respond well to NaSSAs, etc. Clearly, there
are multiple neurotransmitter systems involved and there may very well
be as-of-yet undiscovered neurotransmitters involved as well.
But to conclude that mental disorders are NOT related to chemical
imbalances AT ALL is to throw the baby out with the bath water.
Furthermore, it just doesn’t make logical sense… “normal” mood states
are a result of chemcial interactions in the brain, so “abnormal” mood
states must also be the result of chemical interactions in the brain;
presumably of “abnormal” chemical interactions. Such a hypothesis is
further supported by the fact that mental illness can be induced by
introducing certain chemicals to the brain.
I think it’s reasonable to conclude that the chemical imbalances
responsible for mental illness are more complex than we are currently
aware of, but to conclude that mental illness is NOT a result of
chemical imbalance is a logical fallacy.
> > An M.D. in Duluth runs a non-prescription-drug Mental Health Clinic, and
> > uses 5HTP on almost all of his patients who show depression, insomnia,
> > etc. He swears by it. I’ve been using it just to help maintain my
> > sleep, as it is breaking up due to my age (72 y.o.). Certainly seems
> > harmless and may be doing some good. No side effects, but at least I
> > have the assurance that my body can maybe make the serotonin it needs.
> > The psychiatric antidepressant drugs DON’T MAKE serotonin, they just
> > unbalance the body’s destruction of serotonin, and in doing so are
> > Habit-Forming, leading to “withdrawal symptoms” when the
> > anti-depressants are stopped. Anybody coming off SSRIs should use
> > this! Good luck. Dr. Ed
>
>
>
> 1. Opinion – Vera Hassner Sharav
> 2. THE WALL STREET JOURNAL and SCIENCE JOURNAL
> ___________________________________________________________________________
>
> ALLIANCE FOR HUMAN RESEARCH PROTECTION (AHRP)
> Promoting Openness, Full Disclosure, and Accountability www.ahrp.org
>
> One after another of psychiatry’s theoretical constructs and therapeutic
> armamentarium have been knocked down and relegated to the dust-heap of
> pseudo-scientific history. None of psychiatry’s claims have withstood
> the test of scientific scrutiny. The very core upon which psychiatry’s
> practice guidelines are based–using drugs to restore a “chemical
> imbalance” in the brain– has been shown to be nothing but
> unsubstantiated speculation.
>
> Jeffrey Lacasse and Jonathan Leo, Ph.D., the authors of “Serotonin and
> depression: A disconnect between the advertisements and the scientific
> literature,” published in PLoS Medicine, have delivered a decisive blow
> to psychiatry’s unubstantiated claim about a “chemical imbalance” in the
> brain of people who suffer from depression –or other psychological /
> emotional ailments.
>
> The article, by a professor of anatomy and a doctoral student, is
> receiving wide attention both in the general and medical news
> media–Nature, WebMD, Medscape, UPI, New Scientist, the Wall Street Journal.
>
> When confronted with evidence refuting this mantra of biological
> psychiatry, Wayne Goodman, chair of the FDA’s psychopharmacologic
> advisory committee admited in The New Scientist, that the “chemical
> imbalance” story is but a “useful metaphor.”
>
> WSJ health columnist, Sharon Begley, points out that “For many, SSRIs
> help little, if at all. To do better, we have to get the science right.”
>
> But instead of science, the public and health care professionals have
> been fed a bill of goods:
> “Prozac, Zoloft, and Paxil ads and glowing accounts in the press have
> turned patients with depression into veritable pharmacologists, able to
> rattle off” the serotonin chemical imbalance script they have been fed
> by SSRI drug manufacturers and the psychiatric establishment. But
> Lacasse and Leo found that: “Not a single peer-reviewed article …
> support[s] claims of serotonin deficiency in any mental disorder.”
>
> “Low serotonin levels no more cause depression than low aspirin levels
> cause headache.
> Yet, not only company advertisements but leading psychiatrists have
> deluded the public for decades with such false claims:
>
> To cite but two examples:
> NYU Child Study Center website assures families:
> “Our faculty and staff have special expertise in dealing with all
> aspects of Depressive Disorders.” Then proceeds to state: “Depression
> is most likely due to an inherited predisposition to a chemical
> imbalance in the brain.”
> See: http://aboutourkids.org/aboutour/disorders/depressive.html
> Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons Kreichman PET
> Center lists two courses offered by John Mann, MD.
>
> “4294 PET Mapping of Serotonin Transporters …Find out if / what
> changes in brain chemistry can cause an episode of depression.
> Serotonin is an important chemical in the brain and deficiency of
> serotonin is thought to underlie major depression.”
>
> 3752 In Vivo PET Imaging of the Serotonin Transporter (SERT) and 5HTiA
> Receptor in Bipolar Disorder. Identify changes in brain chemistry that
> may cause an episode of depression and/or be associated with suicidal
> behaviors.” For more information, please contact Dr. Mann at 212-543-5571.
>
> In 1995, the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention Research Award
> went to Dr. Mann “for his breakthrough research on serotonin levels as
> a predictor of suicide risk. Dr. Mann’s research has helped to uncover
> the chemical imbalances that occur in depressed patients, and his work
> on hormonal abnormalities in suicidal patients has fostered the
> development of tests that predict suicide risk. His studies of the
> different tests measuring perturbations in the brain=B9s secretion of
> the hormone serotonin have contributed substantially to recent advances
> in the field.”
>
> Begley correctly observes that the false “chemical imbalance” premise
> is misdirecting patients away from potentially better therapeutic
> options: “The hegemony of the serotonin hypothesis may be keeping
> patients from a therapy that will help them more in the long term. The
> relapse rate for patients on pills is higher than for those getting
> cognitive-behavior psychotherapy.”
>
> Indeed, unsubstantiated pronouncements by psychiatry’s leadership gave
> the mental health industry and its patient advocacy front groups
> pseudo-scientific arguments with which to equate mental illness to
> physical illnesses–such as diabetes (for which insulin is needed to
> balance blood-sugar level).
>
> This patently false comparison gave the psychotropic drug lobby–which
> includes the National Institute of Mental Health and state mental health
> agencies–ammunition with which to lobby for drug budget parity. They
> lobbied for the latest, most expensive medicines to restore a “chemical
> imbalance” in mental disorders–a claim that Dr. Goodman acknowledges
> is nothing but “a useful metaphor.”
>
> That “useful metaphor” was used to deceive patients and the public and
> to divert health care funds from essential medicines to pay for drugs
> whose benefit is now largely in doubt, and whose severe adverse effects
> are undermining patients’ physical and mental health.
>
> Dr. Goodman admits that he has never revealed the truth to his
> patients– “I can’t get myself to say that.”
> The fact is the psychiatric establishment has been concealing the truth
> about the lack of scientific evidence behind all of its theoretical
> constructs
>
> Contact: Vera Hassner Sharav
> 212-595-8974=20 veracare@ahrp.org
> _________________________________________________
> THE WALL STREET JOURNAL SCIENCE JOURNAL=20 By SHARON BEGLEY
> http://online.wsj.com/img/colhed_begley_sharon.jpg
>
> Some Drugs Work To Treat Depression, But It Isn’t Clear How November 18,
> 2005; Page B1 Hardly any patients know how Lipitor lowers cholesterol,
> how Lotensin reduces blood pressure, or even how ibuprofen erases
> headaches. But when it comes to Prozac, Zoloft and Paxil, ads and
> glowing accounts in the press have turned patients with depression into
> veritable pharmacologists, able to rattle off how these “selective
> serotonin reuptake inhibitors” keep more of the brain chemical serotonin
> hanging around in synapses, correcting the neurochemical imbalance that
> causes depression.
>
> There is only one problem. “Not a single peer-reviewed article …
> support[s] claims of serotonin deficiency in any mental disorder,”
> scientists write in the December issue of the journal PLoS Medicine.
>
> Indeed, a steady drip of studies have challenged the “serotonin did it”
> hypothesis. A 2003 mouse experiment suggested that SSRIs work by
> inducing the birth and growth of new brain neurons, not by monkeying
> with serotonin.
> In March, a review of decades of research concluded that something other
> than “changes in chemical balance might underlie depression.” And as
> Jeffrey Lacasse and Jonathan Leo write in PLoS Medicine, although ads
> for SSRIs say they correct a chemical imbalance, “there is no such thing
> as a scientifically correct ‘balance’ of serotonin.”
>
> How did so many smart people get it so wrong? Medicinal chemist Derek
> Lowe, who works in drug development for a pharmaceutical firm, offered
> an explanation in his “In the Pipeline” blog. “I worked on central
> nervous system drugs for eight years, and I can confidently state that
> we know just slightly more than jack” about how antidepressants work.
>
> It is not for lack of trying. In 1965, psychiatrist Joseph Schildkraut
> of Harvard University suggested that a deficiency of a brain chemical
> causes depression. With the success of drugs that block the reuptake of
> these chemicals, that idea started to look pretty good.
>
> Yet the evidence was always circumstantial. You can’t measure serotonin
> in the brains of living human beings. The next best thing, measuring
> the compounds that serotonin breaks down to in cerebrospinal fluid,
> suggested that clinically depressed patients had less of it than healthy
> people did.
> But it was never clear whether depression caused those low levels, or
> vice versa. A 2002 review of these early experiments took them to task
> for such flaws.
>
> There had always been data that don’t fit the serotonin-imbalance theory.
> Depleting people’s serotonin levels sometimes changed their mood for the
> worse and sometimes didn’t. Sending serotonin levels through the roof
> didn’t help depression, a study found as early as 1975.
>
> There is little doubt that the SSRIs do what their name says, keeping
> more serotonin in the brain’s synapses. But the fact “that SSRIs act on
> the serotonin system does not mean that clinical depression results from
> a shortage of serotonin,” says Dr. Leo, professor of anatomy at Lake
> Erie College of Osteopathic Medicine, Bradenton, Fla. No more so,
> anyway, than the fact that steroid creams help rashes means that rashes
> are caused by a steroid shortage.
>
> A clue to how SSRIs do work comes from how long they take to have any
> effect. They rarely make a dent in depression before three weeks, and
> sometimes take eight weeks to kick in. But they affect serotonin levels
> right away. If depression doesn’t lift despite that serotonin hit, the
> drugs must be doing something else; it’s the something else that eases
> depression.
>
> The best evidence so far is that the something else is neurogenesis —
> the birth of new neurons. When scientists led by Rene Hen of Columbia
> University and Ronald Duman of Yale blocked neurogenesis in mice, SSRIs
> had no effect.
> When neurogenesis was unimpeded, SSRIs made the mice less anxious and
> depressed — for rodents. As best scientists can tell, SSRIs first
> activate the serotonin system, which is somehow necessary for
> neurogenesis. That is what takes weeks.
>
> Claiming that depression results from a brain-chemical imbalance, as ads
> do, is problematic on several fronts. Patients who believe this are
> more likely to demand a prescription. If you have a disease caused by
> too little insulin, you take insulin; if you have one caused by too
> little serotonin, you take serotonin boosters.
>
> Most people treated for depression get pills rather than psychotherapy,
> and this week a study from Stanford University reported that drugs have
> been supplanting psychotherapy for depressed adolescents. Clinical
> guidelines call for using both, and for psychotherapy to be the
> first-line treatment for most kids. Psychotherapy “can be as effective
> as medications” for major depression, concluded a study in April of 240
> patients, in the Archives of General Psychiatry. Numerous other studies
> find the same.
>
> The hegemony of the serotonin hypothesis may be keeping patients from a
> therapy that will help them more in the long term. The relapse rate for
> patients on pills is higher than for those getting cognitive-behavior
> psychotherapy.
>
> Some 19 million people in the U.S. suffer from depression in any given
> year.
> For many, SSRIs help little, if at all. To do better, we have to get
> the science right.
>
> Write to Sharon Begley at sciencejournal@wsj.com
>
> _____________________________________________________________
>
> NewScientist.com
>
> Television adverts for antidepressants cause anxiety
> * 12 November 2005
> * From New Scientist Print Edition.
> ADVERTS that claim depression is caused by a chemical imbalance, and
> that antidepressants correct it, are false and should be banned, say two
> mental health specialists.
>
> Popular antidepressants such as Prozac and Celexa block the uptake of
> the neurotransmitter serotonin and have been shown to be slightly better
> than placebo in treating depression. But low serotonin levels are no
> more the cause of depression than low aspirin levels are the cause of
> headaches, argue Jonathan Leo at Lake Erie College of Osteopathic
> Medicine in Bradenton, Florida, and Jeffrey Lacasse at Florida State
> University in Tallahassee (Public Library of Science Medicine, DOI:
> 10.1371/journal.pmed.0020392).
>
> “It has become an absolute mainstay of popular culture,” says Leo. “But
> there’s very little support for this. We really don’t know what
> chemicals are involved.”
>
> Wayne Goodman, chair of the psychopharmacologic advisory committee of
> the US Food and Drug Administration admits they have a point. He calls
> the chemical imbalance story a “useful metaphor” but says it is never
> one he uses when talking to patients. “I can’t get myself to say that.”
>
> The Irish Medicines Board, the equivalent of the FDA in Ireland,
> recently banned GlaxoSmithKline from making similar claims in
> information for patients. Leo and Lacasse want the FDA to follow suit.
>
>
> */Beatriz /* wrote:
>
> I disagree with Jon. I have been using it for the last 5 years and
> it has
> helped me with reducing the intensity and occurrence of my migraines
> as well
> as with the quality of my sleep. I am 47. My father, who is in his 70s,
> started taking it recently to get off benzos and is also benefiting
> from it
> much in the same way and he claims that it has also helped him with his
> rather extreme mood swings.
> Beatriz
>
>
> —–Original Message—–
> From: jon [mailto:jfreed1@umbc.edu]
> Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2005 3:44 AM
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] 5 hydroxy-tryptophane
>
> 5-HTP isn’t generally particularly effective, as it does not readily
> cross the blood brain barrier. Any beneficial effects from it are
> likely
> a placebo effect.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Best regards,
> Carol
>
> *_______________________________*
> *Never Accept Only Two Choices in Life.*
> *The problems of Today cannot be solved by the same thinking that
> created them.*
> *-Al Einstein. *
> **
>
> ————————————————————————
> Yahoo! FareChase – Search multiple travel sites in one click.
>
>
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
Best regards,
Carol
_______________________________
Never Accept Only Two Choices in Life.
The problems of Today cannot be solved by the same thinking that created them.
-Al Einstein.
Yahoo! FareChase – Search multiple travel sites in one click.
From: “Peter Hyatt” <phyatt1962@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] 5 hydroxy-tryptophane- Serotonin – Antidepressants
Date: November 20, 2005 at 2:23:12 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
seen it both ways…..5HTP worked for some; but not for others.  Never heard of its use in animals, though.
From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] 5 hydroxy-tryptophane- Serotonin – Antidepressants
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 13:43:08 -0500
Well, I think it’s clear that the biological basis of depression is more complicated than just having low levels of serotonin. Some people with depression repsond well to SSRIs, some respond well to SNRIs, some respond well to SARIs, some respond well to NaSSAs, etc. Clearly, there are multiple neurotransmitter systems involved and there may very well be as-of-yet undiscovered neurotransmitters involved as well.
But to conclude that mental disorders are NOT related to chemical imbalances AT ALL is to throw the baby out with the bath water. Furthermore, it just doesn’t make logical sense… “normal” mood states are a result of chemcial interactions in the brain, so “abnormal” mood states must also be the result of chemical interactions in the brain; presumably of “abnormal” chemical interactions. Such a hypothesis is further supported by the fact that mental illness can be induced by introducing certain chemicals to the brain.
I think it’s reasonable to conclude that the chemical imbalances responsible for mental illness are more complex than we are currently aware of, but to conclude that mental illness is NOT a result of chemical imbalance is a logical fallacy.
> An M.D. in Duluth runs a non-prescription-drug Mental Health Clinic, and
> uses 5HTP on almost all of his patients who show depression, insomnia,
> etc. He swears by it. I’ve been using it just to help maintain my
> sleep, as it is breaking up due to my age (72 y.o.). Certainly seems
> harmless and may be doing some good. No side effects, but at least I
> have the assurance that my body can maybe make the serotonin it needs.
> The psychiatric antidepressant drugs DON’T MAKE serotonin, they just
> unbalance the body’s destruction of serotonin, and in doing so are
> Habit-Forming, leading to “withdrawal symptoms” when the
> anti-depressants are stopped. Anybody coming off SSRIs should use
> this! Good luck. Dr. Ed
1.  Opinion – Vera Hassner Sharav
2.  THE WALL STREET JOURNAL and SCIENCE JOURNAL
___________________________________________________________________________
ALLIANCE FOR HUMAN RESEARCH PROTECTION (AHRP)
Promoting Openness, Full Disclosure, and Accountability www.ahrp.org
One after another of psychiatry’s theoretical constructs and therapeutic armamentarium have been knocked down and relegated to the dust-heap of pseudo-scientific history.  None of psychiatry’s claims have withstood the test of scientific scrutiny.  The very core upon which psychiatry’s practice guidelines are based–using drugs to restore a “chemical imbalance” in the brain– has been shown to be nothing but unsubstantiated speculation.
Jeffrey Lacasse and Jonathan Leo, Ph.D., the authors of “Serotonin and depression: A disconnect between the advertisements and the scientific literature,” published in PLoS Medicine, have delivered a decisive blow to psychiatry’s unubstantiated claim about a “chemical imbalance” in the brain of people who suffer from depression –or other psychological / emotional ailments.
The article, by a professor of anatomy and a doctoral student, is receiving wide attention both in the general and medical news media–Nature, WebMD, Medscape, UPI, New Scientist, the Wall Street Journal.
When confronted with evidence refuting this mantra of biological psychiatry, Wayne Goodman, chair of the FDA’s psychopharmacologic advisory committee admited in The New Scientist, that the “chemical imbalance” story is but a “useful metaphor.”
WSJ health columnist, Sharon Begley, points out that “For many, SSRIs help little, if at all.  To do better, we have to get the science right.”
But instead of science, the public and health care professionals have been fed a bill of goods:
“Prozac, Zoloft, and Paxil ads and glowing accounts in the press have turned patients with depression into veritable pharmacologists, able to rattle off” the serotonin chemical imbalance script they have been fed by SSRI drug manufacturers and the psychiatric establishment.  But Lacasse and Leo found that: “Not a single peer-reviewed article …  support[s] claims of serotonin deficiency in any mental disorder.”
“Low serotonin levels no more cause depression than low aspirin levels cause headache.
Yet, not only company advertisements but leading psychiatrists have deluded the public for decades with such false claims:
To cite but two examples:
NYU Child Study Center website assures families:
“Our faculty and staff have special expertise in dealing with all aspects of Depressive Disorders.” Then proceeds to state:  “Depression is most likely due to an inherited predisposition to a chemical imbalance in the brain.”
See:  http://aboutourkids.org/aboutour/disorders/depressive.html
Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons Kreichman PET Center lists two courses offered by John Mann, MD.
“4294 PET Mapping of Serotonin Transporters …Find out if / what changes in brain chemistry can cause an episode of depression.  Serotonin is an important chemical in the brain and deficiency of serotonin is thought to underlie major depression.”
3752 In Vivo PET Imaging of the Serotonin Transporter (SERT)  and 5HTiA Receptor in Bipolar Disorder.  Identify changes in brain chemistry that may cause an episode of depression and/or be associated with suicidal behaviors.” For more information, please contact Dr.  Mann at 212-543-5571.
In 1995, the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention Research Award went to Dr.  Mann “for his breakthrough research on serotonin levels as a predictor of suicide risk.  Dr.  Mann’s research has helped to uncover the chemical imbalances that occur in depressed patients, and his work on hormonal abnormalities in suicidal patients has fostered the development of tests that predict suicide risk.  His studies of the different tests measuring perturbations in the brain=B9s secretion of the hormone serotonin have contributed substantially to recent advances in the field.”
Begley correctly observes that the false “chemical imbalance”  premise is misdirecting patients away from potentially better therapeutic options: “The hegemony of the serotonin hypothesis may be keeping patients from a therapy that will help them more in the long term.  The relapse rate for patients on pills is higher than for those getting cognitive-behavior psychotherapy.”
Indeed, unsubstantiated pronouncements by psychiatry’s leadership gave the mental health industry and its patient advocacy front groups pseudo-scientific arguments with which to equate mental illness to physical illnesses–such as diabetes (for which insulin is needed to balance blood-sugar level).
This patently false comparison gave the psychotropic drug lobby–which includes the National Institute of Mental Health and state mental health agencies–ammunition with which to lobby for drug budget parity.  They lobbied for the latest, most expensive medicines to restore a “chemical imbalance” in mental disorders–a claim that Dr.  Goodman acknowledges is nothing but “a useful metaphor.”
That “useful metaphor” was used to deceive patients and the public and to divert health care funds from essential medicines to pay for drugs whose benefit is now largely in doubt, and whose severe adverse effects are undermining patients’ physical and mental health.
Dr.  Goodman admits that he has never revealed the truth to his patients– “I can’t get myself to say that.”
The fact is the psychiatric establishment has been concealing the truth about the lack of scientific evidence behind all of its theoretical constructs and armamentarium.
Contact: Vera Hassner Sharav
212-595-8974=20 veracare@ahrp.org <mailto:veracare@ahrp.org>
_________________________________________________
THE WALL STREET JOURNAL SCIENCE JOURNAL=20 By SHARON BEGLEY
http://online.wsj.com/img/colhed_begley_sharon.jpg
Some Drugs Work To Treat Depression, But It Isn’t Clear How November 18, 2005; Page B1 Hardly any patients know how Lipitor lowers cholesterol, how Lotensin reduces blood pressure, or even how ibuprofen erases headaches.  But when it comes to Prozac, Zoloft and Paxil, ads and glowing accounts in the press have turned patients with depression into veritable pharmacologists, able to rattle off how these “selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors” keep more of the brain chemical serotonin hanging around in synapses, correcting the neurochemical imbalance that causes depression.
There is only one problem.  “Not a single peer-reviewed article … support[s] claims of serotonin deficiency in any mental disorder,” scientists write in the December issue of the journal PLoS Medicine.
Indeed, a steady drip of studies have challenged the “serotonin did it” hypothesis.  A 2003 mouse experiment suggested that SSRIs work by inducing the birth and growth of new brain neurons, not by monkeying with serotonin.
In March, a review of decades of research concluded that something other than “changes in chemical balance might underlie depression.” And as Jeffrey Lacasse and Jonathan Leo write in PLoS Medicine, although ads for SSRIs say they correct a chemical imbalance, “there is no such thing as a scientifically correct ‘balance’ of serotonin.”
How did so many smart people get it so wrong?  Medicinal chemist Derek Lowe, who works in drug development for a pharmaceutical firm, offered an explanation in his “In the Pipeline” blog.  “I worked on central nervous system drugs for eight years, and I can confidently state that we know just slightly more than jack” about how antidepressants work.
It is not for lack of trying.  In 1965, psychiatrist Joseph Schildkraut of Harvard University suggested that a deficiency of a brain chemical causes depression.  With the success of drugs that block the reuptake of these chemicals, that idea started to look pretty good.
Yet the evidence was always circumstantial.  You can’t measure serotonin in the brains of living human beings.  The next best thing, measuring the compounds that serotonin breaks down to in cerebrospinal fluid, suggested that clinically depressed patients had less of it than healthy people did.
But it was never clear whether depression caused those low levels, or vice versa.  A 2002 review of these early experiments took them to task for such flaws.
There had always been data that don’t fit the serotonin-imbalance theory.
Depleting people’s serotonin levels sometimes changed their mood for the worse and sometimes didn’t.  Sending serotonin levels through the roof didn’t help depression, a study found as early as 1975.
There is little doubt that the SSRIs do what their name says, keeping more serotonin in the brain’s synapses.  But the fact “that SSRIs act on the serotonin system does not mean that clinical depression results from a shortage of serotonin,” says Dr.  Leo, professor of anatomy at Lake Erie College of Osteopathic Medicine, Bradenton, Fla.  No more so, anyway, than the fact that steroid creams help rashes means that rashes are caused by a steroid shortage.
A clue to how SSRIs do work comes from how long they take to have any effect.  They rarely make a dent in depression before three weeks, and sometimes take eight weeks to kick in.  But they affect serotonin levels right away.  If depression doesn’t lift despite that serotonin hit, the drugs must be doing something else; it’s the something else that eases depression.
The best evidence so far is that the something else is neurogenesis — the birth of new neurons.  When scientists led by Rene Hen of Columbia University and Ronald Duman of Yale blocked neurogenesis in mice, SSRIs had no effect.
When neurogenesis was unimpeded, SSRIs made the mice less anxious and depressed — for rodents.  As best scientists can tell, SSRIs first activate the serotonin system, which is somehow necessary for neurogenesis.  That is what takes weeks.
Claiming that depression results from a brain-chemical imbalance, as ads do, is problematic on several fronts.  Patients who believe this are more likely to demand a prescription.  If you have a disease caused by too little insulin, you take insulin; if you have one caused by too little serotonin, you take serotonin boosters.
Most people treated for depression get pills rather than psychotherapy, and this week a study from Stanford University reported that drugs have been supplanting psychotherapy for depressed adolescents.  Clinical guidelines call for using both, and for psychotherapy to be the first-line treatment for most kids.  Psychotherapy “can be as effective as medications” for major depression, concluded a study in April of 240 patients, in the Archives of General Psychiatry.  Numerous other studies find the same.
The hegemony of the serotonin hypothesis may be keeping patients from a therapy that will help them more in the long term.  The relapse rate for patients on pills is higher than for those getting cognitive-behavior psychotherapy.
Some 19 million people in the U.S.  suffer from depression in any given year.
For many, SSRIs help little, if at all.  To do better, we have to get the science right.
Write to Sharon Begley at sciencejournal@wsj.com <mailto:sciencejournal@wsj.com>
_____________________________________________________________
NewScientist.com <http://www.newscientist.com/>
Television adverts for antidepressants cause anxiety
* 12 November 2005
* From New Scientist Print Edition.
ADVERTS that claim depression is caused by a chemical imbalance, and that antidepressants correct it, are false and should be banned, say two mental health specialists.
Popular antidepressants such as Prozac and Celexa block the uptake of the neurotransmitter serotonin and have been shown to be slightly better than placebo in treating depression.  But low serotonin levels are no more the cause of depression than low aspirin levels are the cause of headaches, argue Jonathan Leo at Lake Erie College of Osteopathic Medicine in Bradenton, Florida, and Jeffrey Lacasse at Florida State University in Tallahassee (Public Library of Science Medicine, DOI:
10.1371/journal.pmed.0020392).
“It has become an absolute mainstay of popular culture,” says Leo.  “But there’s very little support for this.  We really don’t know what chemicals are involved.”
Wayne Goodman, chair of the psychopharmacologic advisory committee of the US Food and Drug Administration admits they have a point.  He calls the chemical imbalance story a “useful metaphor” but says it is never one he uses when talking to patients.  “I can’t get myself to say that.”
The Irish Medicines Board, the equivalent of the FDA in Ireland, recently banned GlaxoSmithKline from making similar claims in information for patients.  Leo and Lacasse want the FDA to follow suit.
*/Beatriz <beatrizbrasil@netvigator.com>/* wrote:
   I disagree with Jon. I have been using it for the last 5 years and
   it has
   helped me with reducing the intensity and occurrence of my migraines
   as well
   as with the quality of my sleep. I am 47. My father, who is in his 70s,
   started taking it recently to get off benzos and is also benefiting
   from it
   much in the same way and he claims that it has also helped him with his
   rather extreme mood swings.
   Beatriz
   —–Original Message—–
   From: jon [mailto:jfreed1@umbc.edu]
   Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2005 3:44 AM
   To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
   Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] 5 hydroxy-tryptophane
   5-HTP isn’t generally particularly effective, as it does not readily
   cross the blood brain barrier. Any beneficial effects from it are
   likely
   a placebo effect.
Best regards,
Carol
*_______________________________*
*Never Accept Only Two Choices in Life.*
*The problems of Today cannot be solved by the same thinking that created them.*
*-Al Einstein. *
**
————————————————————————
Yahoo! FareChase – Search multiple travel sites in one click. <http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3oDMTFqODRtdXQ4BF9TAzMyOTc1MDIEX3MDOTY2ODgxNjkEcG9zAzEEc2VjA21haWwtZm9vdGVyBHNsawNmYw–/SIG=110oav78o/**http%3a//farechase.yahoo.com/>
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] 5 hydroxy-tryptophane- Serotonin – Antidepressants
Date: November 20, 2005 at 1:43:08 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Well, I think it’s clear that the biological basis of depression is more complicated than just having low levels of serotonin. Some people with depression repsond well to SSRIs, some respond well to SNRIs, some respond well to SARIs, some respond well to NaSSAs, etc. Clearly, there are multiple neurotransmitter systems involved and there may very well be as-of-yet undiscovered neurotransmitters involved as well.
But to conclude that mental disorders are NOT related to chemical imbalances AT ALL is to throw the baby out with the bath water. Furthermore, it just doesn’t make logical sense… “normal” mood states are a result of chemcial interactions in the brain, so “abnormal” mood states must also be the result of chemical interactions in the brain; presumably of “abnormal” chemical interactions. Such a hypothesis is further supported by the fact that mental illness can be induced by introducing certain chemicals to the brain.
I think it’s reasonable to conclude that the chemical imbalances responsible for mental illness are more complex than we are currently aware of, but to conclude that mental illness is NOT a result of chemical imbalance is a logical fallacy.
> An M.D. in Duluth runs a non-prescription-drug Mental Health Clinic, and
> uses 5HTP on almost all of his patients who show depression, insomnia,
> etc. He swears by it. I’ve been using it just to help maintain my
> sleep, as it is breaking up due to my age (72 y.o.). Certainly seems
> harmless and may be doing some good. No side effects, but at least I
> have the assurance that my body can maybe make the serotonin it needs.
> The psychiatric antidepressant drugs DON’T MAKE serotonin, they just
> unbalance the body’s destruction of serotonin, and in doing so are
> Habit-Forming, leading to “withdrawal symptoms” when the
> anti-depressants are stopped. Anybody coming off SSRIs should use
> this! Good luck. Dr. Ed
1.  Opinion – Vera Hassner Sharav
2.  THE WALL STREET JOURNAL and SCIENCE JOURNAL
___________________________________________________________________________
ALLIANCE FOR HUMAN RESEARCH PROTECTION (AHRP)
Promoting Openness, Full Disclosure, and Accountability www.ahrp.org
One after another of psychiatry’s theoretical constructs and therapeutic armamentarium have been knocked down and relegated to the dust-heap of pseudo-scientific history.  None of psychiatry’s claims have withstood the test of scientific scrutiny.  The very core upon which psychiatry’s practice guidelines are based–using drugs to restore a “chemical imbalance” in the brain– has been shown to be nothing but unsubstantiated speculation.
Jeffrey Lacasse and Jonathan Leo, Ph.D., the authors of “Serotonin and depression: A disconnect between the advertisements and the scientific literature,” published in PLoS Medicine, have delivered a decisive blow to psychiatry’s unubstantiated claim about a “chemical imbalance” in the brain of people who suffer from depression –or other psychological / emotional ailments.
The article, by a professor of anatomy and a doctoral student, is receiving wide attention both in the general and medical news media–Nature, WebMD, Medscape, UPI, New Scientist, the Wall Street Journal.
When confronted with evidence refuting this mantra of biological psychiatry, Wayne Goodman, chair of the FDA’s psychopharmacologic advisory committee admited in The New Scientist, that the “chemical imbalance” story is but a “useful metaphor.”
WSJ health columnist, Sharon Begley, points out that “For many, SSRIs help little, if at all.  To do better, we have to get the science right.”
But instead of science, the public and health care professionals have been fed a bill of goods:
“Prozac, Zoloft, and Paxil ads and glowing accounts in the press have turned patients with depression into veritable pharmacologists, able to rattle off” the serotonin chemical imbalance script they have been fed by SSRI drug manufacturers and the psychiatric establishment.  But Lacasse and Leo found that: “Not a single peer-reviewed article …  support[s] claims of serotonin deficiency in any mental disorder.”
“Low serotonin levels no more cause depression than low aspirin levels cause headache.
Yet, not only company advertisements but leading psychiatrists have deluded the public for decades with such false claims:
To cite but two examples:
NYU Child Study Center website assures families:
“Our faculty and staff have special expertise in dealing with all aspects of Depressive Disorders.” Then proceeds to state:  “Depression is most likely due to an inherited predisposition to a chemical imbalance in the brain.”
See:  http://aboutourkids.org/aboutour/disorders/depressive.html
Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons Kreichman PET Center lists two courses offered by John Mann, MD.
“4294 PET Mapping of Serotonin Transporters …Find out if / what changes in brain chemistry can cause an episode of depression.  Serotonin is an important chemical in the brain and deficiency of serotonin is thought to underlie major depression.”
3752 In Vivo PET Imaging of the Serotonin Transporter (SERT)  and 5HTiA Receptor in Bipolar Disorder.  Identify changes in brain chemistry that may cause an episode of depression and/or be associated with suicidal behaviors.” For more information, please contact Dr.  Mann at 212-543-5571.
In 1995, the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention Research Award went to Dr.  Mann “for his breakthrough research on serotonin levels as a predictor of suicide risk.  Dr.  Mann’s research has helped to uncover the chemical imbalances that occur in depressed patients, and his work on hormonal abnormalities in suicidal patients has fostered the development of tests that predict suicide risk.  His studies of the different tests measuring perturbations in the brain=B9s secretion of the hormone serotonin have contributed substantially to recent advances in the field.”
Begley correctly observes that the false “chemical imbalance”  premise is misdirecting patients away from potentially better therapeutic options: “The hegemony of the serotonin hypothesis may be keeping patients from a therapy that will help them more in the long term.  The relapse rate for patients on pills is higher than for those getting cognitive-behavior psychotherapy.”
Indeed, unsubstantiated pronouncements by psychiatry’s leadership gave the mental health industry and its patient advocacy front groups pseudo-scientific arguments with which to equate mental illness to physical illnesses–such as diabetes (for which insulin is needed to balance blood-sugar level).
This patently false comparison gave the psychotropic drug lobby–which includes the National Institute of Mental Health and state mental health agencies–ammunition with which to lobby for drug budget parity.  They lobbied for the latest, most expensive medicines to restore a “chemical imbalance” in mental disorders–a claim that Dr.  Goodman acknowledges is nothing but “a useful metaphor.”
That “useful metaphor” was used to deceive patients and the public and to divert health care funds from essential medicines to pay for drugs whose benefit is now largely in doubt, and whose severe adverse effects are undermining patients’ physical and mental health.
Dr.  Goodman admits that he has never revealed the truth to his patients– “I can’t get myself to say that.”
The fact is the psychiatric establishment has been concealing the truth about the lack of scientific evidence behind all of its theoretical constructs and armamentarium.
Contact: Vera Hassner Sharav
212-595-8974=20 veracare@ahrp.org <mailto:veracare@ahrp.org>
_________________________________________________
THE WALL STREET JOURNAL SCIENCE JOURNAL=20 By SHARON BEGLEY
http://online.wsj.com/img/colhed_begley_sharon.jpg
Some Drugs Work To Treat Depression, But It Isn’t Clear How November 18, 2005; Page B1 Hardly any patients know how Lipitor lowers cholesterol, how Lotensin reduces blood pressure, or even how ibuprofen erases headaches.  But when it comes to Prozac, Zoloft and Paxil, ads and glowing accounts in the press have turned patients with depression into veritable pharmacologists, able to rattle off how these “selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors” keep more of the brain chemical serotonin hanging around in synapses, correcting the neurochemical imbalance that causes depression.
There is only one problem.  “Not a single peer-reviewed article … support[s] claims of serotonin deficiency in any mental disorder,” scientists write in the December issue of the journal PLoS Medicine.
Indeed, a steady drip of studies have challenged the “serotonin did it” hypothesis.  A 2003 mouse experiment suggested that SSRIs work by inducing the birth and growth of new brain neurons, not by monkeying with serotonin.
In March, a review of decades of research concluded that something other than “changes in chemical balance might underlie depression.” And as Jeffrey Lacasse and Jonathan Leo write in PLoS Medicine, although ads for SSRIs say they correct a chemical imbalance, “there is no such thing as a scientifically correct ‘balance’ of serotonin.”
How did so many smart people get it so wrong?  Medicinal chemist Derek Lowe, who works in drug development for a pharmaceutical firm, offered an explanation in his “In the Pipeline” blog.  “I worked on central nervous system drugs for eight years, and I can confidently state that we know just slightly more than jack” about how antidepressants work.
It is not for lack of trying.  In 1965, psychiatrist Joseph Schildkraut of Harvard University suggested that a deficiency of a brain chemical causes depression.  With the success of drugs that block the reuptake of these chemicals, that idea started to look pretty good.
Yet the evidence was always circumstantial.  You can’t measure serotonin in the brains of living human beings.  The next best thing, measuring the compounds that serotonin breaks down to in cerebrospinal fluid, suggested that clinically depressed patients had less of it than healthy people did.
But it was never clear whether depression caused those low levels, or vice versa.  A 2002 review of these early experiments took them to task for such flaws.
There had always been data that don’t fit the serotonin-imbalance theory.
Depleting people’s serotonin levels sometimes changed their mood for the worse and sometimes didn’t.  Sending serotonin levels through the roof didn’t help depression, a study found as early as 1975.
There is little doubt that the SSRIs do what their name says, keeping more serotonin in the brain’s synapses.  But the fact “that SSRIs act on the serotonin system does not mean that clinical depression results from a shortage of serotonin,” says Dr.  Leo, professor of anatomy at Lake Erie College of Osteopathic Medicine, Bradenton, Fla.  No more so, anyway, than the fact that steroid creams help rashes means that rashes are caused by a steroid shortage.
A clue to how SSRIs do work comes from how long they take to have any effect.  They rarely make a dent in depression before three weeks, and sometimes take eight weeks to kick in.  But they affect serotonin levels right away.  If depression doesn’t lift despite that serotonin hit, the drugs must be doing something else; it’s the something else that eases depression.
The best evidence so far is that the something else is neurogenesis — the birth of new neurons.  When scientists led by Rene Hen of Columbia University and Ronald Duman of Yale blocked neurogenesis in mice, SSRIs had no effect.
When neurogenesis was unimpeded, SSRIs made the mice less anxious and depressed — for rodents.  As best scientists can tell, SSRIs first activate the serotonin system, which is somehow necessary for neurogenesis.  That is what takes weeks.
Claiming that depression results from a brain-chemical imbalance, as ads do, is problematic on several fronts.  Patients who believe this are more likely to demand a prescription.  If you have a disease caused by too little insulin, you take insulin; if you have one caused by too little serotonin, you take serotonin boosters.
Most people treated for depression get pills rather than psychotherapy, and this week a study from Stanford University reported that drugs have been supplanting psychotherapy for depressed adolescents.  Clinical guidelines call for using both, and for psychotherapy to be the first-line treatment for most kids.  Psychotherapy “can be as effective as medications” for major depression, concluded a study in April of 240 patients, in the Archives of General Psychiatry.  Numerous other studies find the same.
The hegemony of the serotonin hypothesis may be keeping patients from a therapy that will help them more in the long term.  The relapse rate for patients on pills is higher than for those getting cognitive-behavior psychotherapy.
Some 19 million people in the U.S.  suffer from depression in any given year.
For many, SSRIs help little, if at all.  To do better, we have to get the science right.
Write to Sharon Begley at sciencejournal@wsj.com <mailto:sciencejournal@wsj.com>
_____________________________________________________________
NewScientist.com <http://www.newscientist.com/>
Television adverts for antidepressants cause anxiety
* 12 November 2005
* From New Scientist Print Edition.
ADVERTS that claim depression is caused by a chemical imbalance, and that antidepressants correct it, are false and should be banned, say two mental health specialists.
Popular antidepressants such as Prozac and Celexa block the uptake of the neurotransmitter serotonin and have been shown to be slightly better than placebo in treating depression.  But low serotonin levels are no more the cause of depression than low aspirin levels are the cause of headaches, argue Jonathan Leo at Lake Erie College of Osteopathic Medicine in Bradenton, Florida, and Jeffrey Lacasse at Florida State University in Tallahassee (Public Library of Science Medicine, DOI:
10.1371/journal.pmed.0020392).
“It has become an absolute mainstay of popular culture,” says Leo.  “But there’s very little support for this.  We really don’t know what chemicals are involved.”
Wayne Goodman, chair of the psychopharmacologic advisory committee of the US Food and Drug Administration admits they have a point.  He calls the chemical imbalance story a “useful metaphor” but says it is never one he uses when talking to patients.  “I can’t get myself to say that.”
The Irish Medicines Board, the equivalent of the FDA in Ireland, recently banned GlaxoSmithKline from making similar claims in information for patients.  Leo and Lacasse want the FDA to follow suit.
*/Beatriz <beatrizbrasil@netvigator.com>/* wrote:
   I disagree with Jon. I have been using it for the last 5 years and
   it has
   helped me with reducing the intensity and occurrence of my migraines
   as well
   as with the quality of my sleep. I am 47. My father, who is in his 70s,
   started taking it recently to get off benzos and is also benefiting
   from it
   much in the same way and he claims that it has also helped him with his
   rather extreme mood swings.
   Beatriz
   —–Original Message—–
   From: jon [mailto:jfreed1@umbc.edu]
   Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2005 3:44 AM
   To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
   Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] 5 hydroxy-tryptophane
   5-HTP isn’t generally particularly effective, as it does not readily
   cross the blood brain barrier. Any beneficial effects from it are
   likely
   a placebo effect.
Best regards,
Carol
*_______________________________*
*Never Accept Only Two Choices in Life.*
*The problems of Today cannot be solved by the same thinking that created them.*
*-Al Einstein. *
** ————————————————————————
Yahoo! FareChase – Search multiple travel sites in one click. <http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3oDMTFqODRtdXQ4BF9TAzMyOTc1MDIEX3MDOTY2ODgxNjkEcG9zAzEEc2VjA21haWwtZm9vdGVyBHNsawNmYw–/SIG=110oav78o/**http%3a//farechase.yahoo.com/>
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] 5 hydroxy-tryptophane
Date: November 20, 2005 at 1:29:15 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Beatriz wrote:
I disagree with Jon. I have been using it for the last 5 years and it has
helped me with reducing the intensity and occurrence of my migraines as well
as with the quality of my sleep. I am 47. My father, who is in his 70s,
started taking it recently to get off benzos and is also benefiting from it
much in the same way and he claims that it has also helped him with his
rather extreme mood swings. Beatriz
Well, you may experience benefits from “taking” 5-HTP; but the benefits are not likely from the 5-HTP itself, but rather from the fact that you are doing something that you think will help.
The problem, as I said, is that 5-HTP does not readily cross the blood brain barrier. That is to say, when you take 5-HTP, very very little of it, if any, gets to your brain.
Remember, the placebo effect is very powerful. For example, during the Napoleanic Wars, British soldiers frequently needed to have limbs amputated. This was before morphine was in common medical usage, and the British field surgeons needed something that would allow them to perform amputation without causing extreme pain to the patients. They came up with what they called “black draft and blue pill”, which worked marvelously; it greatly reduced the subjective pain experienced by the amputees.
The “black draft” was coffee with a little bit of brandy in it, and the “blue pill” was nothing more than flour pressed in the shape of a pill and dyed blue. But because the soldiers THOUGHT they were getting some sort of pain relieving drug, they experienced a significant reduction in amputation-associated pain.
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Ethnogarden Extract
Date: November 20, 2005 at 9:55:33 AM EST
To: Ibogaine List <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi,
Can anyone confirm the actual composition of ibogaine in the ethnogarden extract. In one report I heard its 60% ibogaine and 40% remaining alkaloids.
Is that true?
I want to list extract sources that I trust and also I am going to look into those extract deaths and make a second table (I still need to confirm the details on the current table as I am not altogether convinced of what is there). It seems to be that its worth being aware of the pros and cons of both forms of eboga and to use appropriately without prejudice 🙂
Lee
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
From: Carol Ann <saffireskyes@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] 5 hydroxy-tryptophane- Serotonin – Antidepressants
Date: November 20, 2005 at 9:38:35 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> An M.D. in Duluth runs a non-prescription-drug Mental Health Clinic, and
> uses 5HTP on almost all of his patients who show depression, insomnia,
> etc. He swears by it. I’ve been using it just to help maintain my
> sleep, as it is breaking up due to my age (72 y.o.). Certainly seems
> harmless and may be doing some good. No side effects, but at least I
> have the assurance that my body can maybe make the serotonin it needs.
> The psychiatric antidepressant drugs DON’T MAKE serotonin, they just
> unbalance the body’s destruction of serotonin, and in doing so are
> Habit-Forming, leading to “withdrawal symptoms” when the
> anti-depressants are stopped. Anybody coming off SSRIs should use
> this! Good luck. Dr. Ed
1.  Opinion – Vera Hassner Sharav
2.  THE WALL STREET JOURNAL and SCIENCE JOURNAL
___________________________________________________________________________
ALLIANCE FOR HUMAN RESEARCH PROTECTION (AHRP)
Promoting Openness, Full Disclosure, and Accountability www.ahrp.org
One after another of psychiatry’s theoretical constructs and therapeutic armamentarium have been knocked down and relegated to the dust-heap of pseudo-scientific history.  None of psychiatry’s claims have withstood the test of scientific scrutiny.  The very core upon which psychiatry’s practice guidelines are based–using drugs to restore a “chemical imbalance” in the brain– has been shown to be nothing but unsubstantiated speculation.
Jeffrey Lacasse and Jonathan Leo, Ph.D., the authors of “Serotonin and depression: A disconnect between the advertisements and the scientific literature,” published in PLoS Medicine, have delivered a decisive blow to psychiatry’s unubstantiated claim about a “chemical imbalance” in the brain of people who suffer from depression –or other psychological / emotional ailments.
The article, by a professor of anatomy and a doctoral student, is receiving wide attention both in the general and medical news media–Nature, WebMD, Medscape, UPI, New Scientist, the Wall Street Journal.
When confronted with evidence refuting this mantra of biological psychiatry, Wayne Goodman, chair of the FDA’s psychopharmacologic advisory committee admited in The New Scientist, that the “chemical imbalance” story is but a “useful metaphor.”
WSJ health columnist, Sharon Begley, points out that “For many, SSRIs help little, if at all.  To do better, we have to get the science right.”
But instead of science, the public and health care professionals have been fed a bill of goods:
“Prozac, Zoloft, and Paxil ads and glowing accounts in the press have turned patients with depression into veritable pharmacologists, able to rattle off” the serotonin chemical imbalance script they have been fed by SSRI drug manufacturers and the psychiatric establishment.  But Lacasse and Leo found that: “Not a single peer-reviewed article …  support[s] claims of serotonin deficiency in any mental disorder.”
“Low serotonin levels no more cause depression than low aspirin levels cause headache.
Yet, not only company advertisements but leading psychiatrists have deluded the public for decades with such false claims:
To cite but two examples:
NYU Child Study Center website assures families:
“Our faculty and staff have special expertise in dealing with all aspects of Depressive Disorders.” Then proceeds to state:  “Depression is most likely due to an inherited predisposition to a chemical imbalance in the brain.”
See:  http://aboutourkids.org/aboutour/disorders/depressive.html
Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons Kreichman PET Center lists two courses offered by John Mann, MD.
“4294 PET Mapping of Serotonin Transporters …Find out if / what changes in brain chemistry can cause an episode of depression.  Serotonin is an important chemical in the brain and deficiency of serotonin is thought to underlie major depression.”
3752 In Vivo PET Imaging of the Serotonin Transporter (SERT)  and 5HTiA Receptor in Bipolar Disorder.  Identify changes in brain chemistry that may cause an episode of depression and/or be associated with suicidal behaviors.” For more information, please contact Dr.  Mann at 212-543-5571.
In 1995, the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention Research Award went to Dr.  Mann “for his breakthrough research on serotonin levels as a predictor of suicide risk.  Dr.  Mann’s research has helped to uncover the chemical imbalances that occur in depressed patients, and his work on hormonal abnormalities in suicidal patients has fostered the development of tests that predict suicide risk.  His studies of the different tests measuring perturbations in the brain=B9s secretion of the hormone serotonin have contributed substantially to recent advances in the field.”
Begley correctly observes that the false “chemical imbalance”  premise is misdirecting patients away from potentially better therapeutic options: “The hegemony of the serotonin hypothesis may be keeping patients from a therapy that will help them more in the long term.  The relapse rate for patients on pills is higher than for those getting cognitive-behavior psychotherapy.”
Indeed, unsubstantiated pronouncements by psychiatry’s leadership gave the mental health industry and its patient advocacy front groups pseudo-scientific arguments with which to equate mental illness to physical illnesses–such as diabetes (for which insulin is needed to balance blood-sugar level).
This patently false comparison gave the psychotropic drug lobby–which includes the National Institute of Mental Health and state mental health agencies–ammunition with which to lobby for drug budget parity.  They lobbied for the latest, most expensive medicines to restore a “chemical imbalance” in mental disorders–a claim that Dr.  Goodman acknowledges is nothing but “a useful metaphor.”
That “useful metaphor” was used to deceive patients and the public and to divert health care funds from essential medicines to pay for drugs whose benefit is now largely in doubt, and whose severe adverse effects are undermining patients’ physical and mental health.
Dr.  Goodman admits that he has never revealed the truth to his patients– “I can’t get myself to say that.”
The fact is the psychiatric establishment has been concealing the truth about the lack of scientific evidence behind all of its theoretical constructs and armamentarium.
Contact: Vera Hassner Sharav
212-595-8974=20 veracare@ahrp.org <mailto:veracare@ahrp.org>
_________________________________________________
THE WALL STREET JOURNAL SCIENCE JOURNAL=20 By SHARON BEGLEY
http://online.wsj.com/img/colhed_begley_sharon.jpg
Some Drugs Work To Treat Depression, But It Isn’t Clear How November 18, 2005; Page B1 Hardly any patients know how Lipitor lowers cholesterol, how Lotensin reduces blood pressure, or even how ibuprofen erases headaches.  But when it comes to Prozac, Zoloft and Paxil, ads and glowing accounts in the press have turned patients with depression into veritable pharmacologists, able to rattle off how these “selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors” keep more of the brain chemical serotonin hanging around in synapses, correcting the neurochemical imbalance that causes depression.
There is only one problem.  “Not a single peer-reviewed article … support[s] claims of serotonin deficiency in any mental disorder,” scientists write in the December issue of the journal PLoS Medicine.
Indeed, a steady drip of studies have challenged the “serotonin did it” hypothesis.  A 2003 mouse experiment suggested that SSRIs work by inducing the birth and growth of new brain neurons, not by monkeying with serotonin.
In March, a review of decades of research concluded that something other than “changes in chemical balance might underlie depression.” And as Jeffrey Lacasse and Jonathan Leo write in PLoS Medicine, although ads for SSRIs say they correct a chemical imbalance, “there is no such thing as a scientifically correct ‘balance’ of serotonin.”
How did so many smart people get it so wrong?  Medicinal chemist Derek Lowe, who works in drug development for a pharmaceutical firm, offered an explanation in his “In the Pipeline” blog.  “I worked on central nervous system drugs for eight years, and I can confidently state that we know just slightly more than jack” about how antidepressants work.
It is not for lack of trying.  In 1965, psychiatrist Joseph Schildkraut of Harvard University suggested that a deficiency of a brain chemical causes depression.  With the success of drugs that block the reuptake of these chemicals, that idea started to look pretty good.
Yet the evidence was always circumstantial.  You can’t measure serotonin in the brains of living human beings.  The next best thing, measuring the compounds that serotonin breaks down to in cerebrospinal fluid, suggested that clinically depressed patients had less of it than healthy people did.
But it was never clear whether depression caused those low levels, or vice versa.  A 2002 review of these early experiments took them to task for such flaws.
There had always been data that don’t fit the serotonin-imbalance theory.
Depleting people’s serotonin levels sometimes changed their mood for the worse and sometimes didn’t.  Sending serotonin levels through the roof didn’t help depression, a study found as early as 1975.
There is little doubt that the SSRIs do what their name says, keeping more serotonin in the brain’s synapses.  But the fact “that SSRIs act on the serotonin system does not mean that clinical depression results from a shortage of serotonin,” says Dr.  Leo, professor of anatomy at Lake Erie College of Osteopathic Medicine, Bradenton, Fla.  No more so, anyway, than the fact that steroid creams help rashes means that rashes are caused by a steroid shortage.
A clue to how SSRIs do work comes from how long they take to have any effect.  They rarely make a dent in depression before three weeks, and sometimes take eight weeks to kick in.  But they affect serotonin levels right away.  If depression doesn’t lift despite that serotonin hit, the drugs must be doing something else; it’s the something else that eases depression.
The best evidence so far is that the something else is neurogenesis — the birth of new neurons.  When scientists led by Rene Hen of Columbia University and Ronald Duman of Yale blocked neurogenesis in mice, SSRIs had no effect.
When neurogenesis was unimpeded, SSRIs made the mice less anxious and depressed — for rodents.  As best scientists can tell, SSRIs first activate the serotonin system, which is somehow necessary for neurogenesis.  That is what takes weeks.
Claiming that depression results from a brain-chemical imbalance, as ads do, is problematic on several fronts.  Patients who believe this are more likely to demand a prescription.  If you have a disease caused by too little insulin, you take insulin; if you have one caused by too little serotonin, you take serotonin boosters.
Most people treated for depression get pills rather than psychotherapy, and this week a study from Stanford University reported that drugs have been supplanting psychotherapy for depressed adolescents.  Clinical guidelines call for using both, and for psychotherapy to be the first-line treatment for most kids.  Psychotherapy “can be as effective as medications” for major depression, concluded a study in April of 240 patients, in the Archives of General Psychiatry.  Numerous other studies find the same.
The hegemony of the serotonin hypothesis may be keeping patients from a therapy that will help them more in the long term.  The relapse rate for patients on pills is higher than for those getting cognitive-behavior psychotherapy.
Some 19 million people in the U.S.  suffer from depression in any given year.
For many, SSRIs help little, if at all.  To do better, we have to get the science right.
Write to Sharon Begley at sciencejournal@wsj.com <mailto:sciencejournal@wsj.com>
_____________________________________________________________
NewScientist.com <http://www.newscientist.com/>
Television adverts for antidepressants cause anxiety
* 12 November 2005
* From New Scientist Print Edition.
ADVERTS that claim depression is caused by a chemical imbalance, and that antidepressants correct it, are false and should be banned, say two mental health specialists.
Popular antidepressants such as Prozac and Celexa block the uptake of the neurotransmitter serotonin and have been shown to be slightly better than placebo in treating depression.  But low serotonin levels are no more the cause of depression than low aspirin levels are the cause of headaches, argue Jonathan Leo at Lake Erie College of Osteopathic Medicine in Bradenton, Florida, and Jeffrey Lacasse at Florida State University in Tallahassee (Public Library of Science Medicine, DOI:
10.1371/journal.pmed.0020392).
“It has become an absolute mainstay of popular culture,” says Leo.  “But there’s very little support for this.  We really don’t know what chemicals are involved.”
Wayne Goodman, chair of the psychopharmacologic advisory committee of the US Food and Drug Administration admits they have a point.  He calls the chemical imbalance story a “useful metaphor” but says it is never one he uses when talking to patients.  “I can’t get myself to say that.”
The Irish Medicines Board, the equivalent of the FDA in Ireland, recently banned GlaxoSmithKline from making similar claims in information for patients.  Leo and Lacasse want the FDA to follow suit.
Beatriz <beatrizbrasil@netvigator.com> wrote:
I disagree with Jon. I have been using it for the last 5 years and it has
helped me with reducing the intensity and occurrence of my migraines as well
as with the quality of my sleep. I am 47. My father, who is in his 70s,
started taking it recently to get off benzos and is also benefiting from it
much in the same way and he claims that it has also helped him with his
rather extreme mood swings.
Beatriz
—–Original Message—–
From: jon [mailto:jfreed1@umbc.edu]
Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2005 3:44 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] 5 hydroxy-tryptophane
5-HTP isn’t generally particularly effective, as it does not readily
cross the blood brain barrier. Any beneficial effects from it are likely
a placebo effect.
Best regards,
Carol
_______________________________
Never Accept Only Two Choices in Life.
The problems of Today cannot be solved by the same thinking that created them.
-Al Einstein.
Yahoo! FareChase – Search multiple travel sites in one click.
From: Morning Wood <morning_wood263@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Iboga — The Play
Date: November 20, 2005 at 7:44:03 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
http://hospaud.org/hai/cep/describe.htm
To attend a performance or to be a volunteer audio
describer
please contact Tricia Hennessey at (212) 575-7663
or THennessey@hospaud.org.
— “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@wiretap.com> wrote:
Schaeberle Studio Theater, 41 Park Row, NYC.  10th
Floor
(Across the street from City Hall Park)
IBOGA
By Jeffrey Israel
Directed by Kayla Lian Israel-Ogulnik
NOVEMBER 17 – 20
Thurs., Fri., Sat. at 8:00;
Sat. & Sun. at 2:00;
For further information, please contact:
Kayla: 352/359.1034
The premiere and an ibogaine panel, was last night.
It wasn’t
publicized because the theatre was sold out.  There
may or may not be
tickets left for this evening (prolly not, since
this is being posted
kinda late); but tickets ARE available for the
weekend shows.
Apparently it rocks the fuck out.  So go check it
out if you’re near
the NYC area.
Patrick
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail – PC Magazine Editors’ Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
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From: “Beatriz” <beatrizbrasil@netvigator.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] 5 hydroxy-tryptophane
Date: November 20, 2005 at 5:22:54 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I disagree with Jon. I have been using it for the last 5 years and it has
helped me with reducing the intensity and occurrence of my migraines as well
as with the quality of my sleep. I am 47. My father, who is in his 70s,
started taking it recently to get off benzos and is also benefiting from it
much in the same way and he claims that it has also helped him with his
rather extreme mood swings.
Beatriz
—–Original Message—–
From: jon [mailto:jfreed1@umbc.edu]
Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2005 3:44 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] 5 hydroxy-tryptophane
5-HTP isn’t generally particularly effective, as it does not readily
cross the blood brain barrier. Any beneficial effects from it are likely
a placebo effect.
This is an over-the-counter “health food,” only an amino-acid (normally
in several foods), but is the PRECURSOR of serotonin in the body, and
making serotonin needs tryptophane.
An M.D. in Duluth runs a non-prescription-drug Mental Health Clinic, and
uses 5HTP on almost all of his patients who show depression, insomnia,
etc.  He swears by it.  I’ve been using it just to help maintain my
sleep, as it is breaking up due to my age (72 y.o.).  Certainly seems
harmless and may be doing some good.  No side effects, but at least I
have the assurance that my body can maybe make the serotonin it needs.
The psychiatric antidepressant drugs DON’T MAKE serotonin, they just
unbalance the body’s destruction of serotonin, and in doing so are
Habit-Forming, leading to “withdrawal symptoms” when the
anti-depressants are stopped.  Anybody coming off SSRIs should use
this!  Good luck.  Dr. Ed
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From: Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] FUKEN COMP
Date: November 20, 2005 at 1:56:36 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
One day ” Love is All there is, All is Love, there is nothing else”
Next day, ” FUKEN COMP”,
If I was sober, I could pount out the discrepancies here.
Luv ya Matt!
Bee
Don Patton wrote:
I think  I love him, but not as much as Kirk. Kirk is blatant mad love, kinda odd, but needed, fills a void, she is so clear, closed a gap that I would have unsubscribed.
Thanx
Kirk wrote:
Nahh Matt is a girl…. Hahhahahahahahahahahah
(ducking……)
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net] 
Sent: Sunday, 20 November 2005 4:54 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] FUKEN COMP
Matt really cracks me up. One day, he kant spel fur shit, then produces a word document beautifully written. Bet there is a girl involved here???

just pondering, don

CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
Wow! Thanks Matt! What an experience! Your recall of it is so detailed. Does everyone remember everything so well? My memory sucks! Knowing the little bit about Ibogaine that I know, you are supposed to remember …..it would aid in your enlightenment which aids you in staying drug free. Right?
Callie
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From: Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] FUKEN COMP
Date: November 20, 2005 at 1:19:16 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I think  I love him, but not as much as Kirk. Kirk is blatant mad love, kinda odd, but needed, fills a void, she is so clear, closed a gap that I would have unsubscribed.
Thanx
Kirk wrote:
Nahh Matt is a girl…. Hahhahahahahahahahahah
(ducking……)
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net] 
Sent: Sunday, 20 November 2005 4:54 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] FUKEN COMP
Matt really cracks me up. One day, he kant spel fur shit, then produces a word document beautifully written. Bet there is a girl involved here???

just pondering, don

CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
Wow! Thanks Matt! What an experience! Your recall of it is so detailed. Does everyone remember everything so well? My memory sucks! Knowing the little bit about Ibogaine that I know, you are supposed to remember …..it would aid in your enlightenment which aids you in staying drug free. Right?
Callie
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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] FUKEN COMP
Date: November 20, 2005 at 12:30:20 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Nahh Matt is a girl…. Hahhahahahahahahahahah
(ducking……)
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net] 
Sent: Sunday, 20 November 2005 4:54 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] FUKEN COMP
Matt really cracks me up. One day, he kant spel fur shit, then produces a word document beautifully written. Bet there is a girl involved here???

just pondering, don

CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
Wow! Thanks Matt! What an experience! Your recall of it is so detailed. Does everyone remember everything so well? My memory sucks! Knowing the little bit about Ibogaine that I know, you are supposed to remember …..it would aid in your enlightenment which aids you in staying drug free. Right?
Callie
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From: Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] FUKEN COMP
Date: November 19, 2005 at 10:53:37 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Matt really cracks me up. One day, he kant spel fur shit, then produces a word document beautifully written. Bet there is a girl involved here???
just pondering, don
CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
Wow! Thanks Matt! What an experience! Your recall of it is so detailed. Does everyone remember everything so well? My memory sucks! Knowing the little bit about Ibogaine that I know, you are supposed to remember …..it would aid in your enlightenment which aids you in staying drug free. Right?
Callie
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] test
Date: November 19, 2005 at 7:59:33 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
test     test        test
From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ot) Trepanation??? vector wtf??? lol
Date: November 19, 2005 at 2:57:47 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
About whether Eastern European women who have been lured into
enslaved prostitution really are using it as a cover story for what
they are doing on purpose, just to avoid bad reputations:
On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 14:57:33 -0800 Day Brown <daybrown@artelco.com>
wrote:
Eastern Europe has been a brutal place for millennia. Count
Dracula?
America has been a brutal place for a while too. The people there
shoot each other a lot because of all the guns, not to mention all
the serial killer sadists, mothers killing their children and so
forth. And they exterminated many of the indigenous tribes. And
they go and bomb and use chemical weapons on other countries a lot
too.
My point being that I believe that desperation encourages young
women to believe that there can be a better future in being a nanny
abroad, that this can and does lead to exploitation, and that
stereotypes like Dracula aren’t evidence to the contrary. Do a
search on the net for more of an idea of the cost to actual humans
in our time.
Concerned about your privacy? Instantly send FREE secure email, no account required
http://www.hushmail.com/send?l=480
Get the best prices on SSL certificates from Hushmail
https://www.hushssl.com?l=485
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From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] 5 hydroxy-tryptophane
Date: November 19, 2005 at 2:44:03 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
5-HTP isn’t generally particularly effective, as it does not readily cross the blood brain barrier. Any beneficial effects from it are likely a placebo effect.
This is an over-the-counter “health food,” only an amino-acid (normally in several foods), but is the PRECURSOR of serotonin in the body, and making serotonin needs tryptophane.
An M.D. in Duluth runs a non-prescription-drug Mental Health Clinic, and uses 5HTP on almost all of his patients who show depression, insomnia, etc.  He swears by it.  I’ve been using it just to help maintain my sleep, as it is breaking up due to my age (72 y.o.).  Certainly seems harmless and may be doing some good.  No side effects, but at least I have the assurance that my body can maybe make the serotonin it needs.  The psychiatric antidepressant drugs DON’T MAKE serotonin, they just unbalance the body’s destruction of serotonin, and in doing so are Habit-Forming, leading to “withdrawal symptoms” when the anti-depressants are stopped.  Anybody coming off SSRIs should use this!  Good luck.  Dr. Ed
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From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] 5 hydroxy-tryptophane
Date: November 19, 2005 at 2:31:43 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
This is an over-the-counter “health food,” only an amino-acid (normally in several foods), but is the PRECURSOR of serotonin in the body, and making serotonin needs tryptophane.
An M.D. in Duluth runs a non-prescription-drug Mental Health Clinic, and uses 5HTP on almost all of his patients who show depression, insomnia, etc.  He swears by it.  I’ve been using it just to help maintain my sleep, as it is breaking up due to my age (72 y.o.).  Certainly seems harmless and may be doing some good.  No side effects, but at least I have the assurance that my body can maybe make the serotonin it needs.  The psychiatric antidepressant drugs DON’T MAKE serotonin, they just unbalance the body’s destruction of serotonin, and in doing so are Habit-Forming, leading to “withdrawal symptoms” when the anti-depressants are stopped.  Anybody coming off SSRIs should use this!  Good luck.  Dr. Ed
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Insomnia Post Ibogaine
Date: November 19, 2005 at 8:44:34 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I really like you a lot Lee. I love what you’re doing with ibogaine, for YOURSELF.
You go.
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2005 7:29 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Insomnia Post Ibogaine
Hi Callie,
I live in the south of Spain in a very nice arabic/christian/jewish city, historically speaking.
I take ibogaine about 2 times a month at the moment and with that I move from one particular issue to another and simply rewire my attitude as much as possible once I recognise my actouts and the associated issues – what you seek is key.
I need regular work at the moment as I have experienced different waves of trauma working their way through me. Mostly old but one very potent one in the past 9 years.
One might ask is ibogaine doing anything for me. The answer is resoundedly yes as I note the texture of the trauma working its way though me and the realisations I normally run from coming into mind – thats vital in some cases for completion. With that I get an associated release of symptoms and clear healing beyond a shadow of a doubt as my view of the situation goes from “stress” before healing to interest and curiosity at the ordinaryness of it all and how it works. Yet, it does take time, and trauma leaves in stages over months/years depending on its depth.
Maybe its the way I am wired. I don’t know. I simply connot tolerate trauma in my body. It pushes down on me, makes me nuerotic and its simply not who I am or want to be. It also messes badly with my relationships and so this work I do is a cleansing and a form of waking up from a deep sleep during the first part of my life.
Lee
CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 11/17/2005 9:15:42 AM Central Standard Time, myeboga@yahoo.co.uk writes:
These days i do about 500mg
Lee, how often do you do Ibogaine? I am sure I should know this but where do you live?
Callie
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Insomnia Post Ibogaine
Date: November 19, 2005 at 7:29:34 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Callie,
I live in the south of Spain in a very nice arabic/christian/jewish city, historically speaking.
I take ibogaine about 2 times a month at the moment and with that I move from one particular issue to another and simply rewire my attitude as much as possible once I recognise my actouts and the associated issues – what you seek is key.
I need regular work at the moment as I have experienced different waves of trauma working their way through me. Mostly old but one very potent one in the past 9 years.
One might ask is ibogaine doing anything for me. The answer is resoundedly yes as I note the texture of the trauma working its way though me and the realisations I normally run from coming into mind – thats vital in some cases for completion. With that I get an associated release of symptoms and clear healing beyond a shadow of a doubt as my view of the situation goes from “stress” before healing to interest and curiosity at the ordinaryness of it all and how it works. Yet, it does take time, and trauma leaves in stages over months/years depending on its depth.
Maybe its the way I am wired. I don’t know. I simply connot tolerate trauma in my body. It pushes down on me, makes me nuerotic and its simply not who I am or want to be. It also messes badly with my relationships and so this work I do is a cleansing and a form of waking up from a deep sleep during the first part of my life.
Lee
CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 11/17/2005 9:15:42 AM Central Standard Time, myeboga@yahoo.co.uk writes:
These days i do about 500mg
Lee, how often do you do Ibogaine? I am sure I should know this but where do you live?
Callie
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: [Ibogaine] 16 ibo short videos + 3 ibo radio interviews
Date: November 19, 2005 at 7:11:30 AM EST
To: Ibogaine List <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, Eboga List <eboga@elistas.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Dear List,
I have altered the Resources (links) page. It now contains a heading with 3 subheadings or sub-links pages to chose from:
www.my-eboga.com/links.html
1. Eboga & Ibogaine links:
2. Audio Visual links:
3. Psychology/Spirituality & Mythology links.
On the Audio-Visual page I have compiled 16 News/Pot-tv documentaries (come with some adds) along with 3 radio interviews – all ibogaine related. The vids are mostly Pot-tv productions. In time I do hope to add to this list from other sources. Anyone who has links can send them to me.
I haven’t listened to all yet but I do think this is worth looking at:
Pot- TV – The BC Marijuana Party Ibogaine Conference Part 2 1 hr 15 min 08 Nov, 2002 – Herbalist and Ibogaine treatment expert Nelson Comerci, who has worked with a range of medical practitioners, harm reduction specialists, individuals suffering with addiction and former addicts, discusses the basics of Ibogaine Therapy.
Lee
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] FUKEN COMP
Date: November 19, 2005 at 4:44:38 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Callie,
I hope you don’t mind if I make a point?
In my own experience the later part of the journey when one is lying and recalling or whatever, is a good time to note all that happened in the session as it comes back in bits and pieces like a review – certainly in lowdose mini-sessions. One can be lying there thinking I can’t remember a thing and then something will pop in your head and you go, oh yeh… And on it goes. A handheld recorder is a very useful thing. I usually carry it around for a day or 2 after.
Lee
CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
Wow! Thanks Matt! What an experience! Your recall of it is so detailed. Does everyone remember everything so well? My memory sucks! Knowing the little bit about Ibogaine that I know, you are supposed to remember …..it would aid in your enlightenment which aids you in staying drug free. Right?
Callie
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@wiretap.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Iboga — The Play
Date: November 18, 2005 at 8:16:53 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Schaeberle Studio Theater, 41 Park Row, NYC.  10th Floor
(Across the street from City Hall Park)
IBOGA
By Jeffrey Israel
Directed by Kayla Lian Israel-Ogulnik
NOVEMBER 17 – 20
Thurs., Fri., Sat. at 8:00;
Sat. & Sun. at 2:00;
For further information, please contact:
Kayla: 352/359.1034
The premiere and an ibogaine panel, was last night.  It wasn’t publicized because the theatre was sold out.  There may or may not be tickets left for this evening (prolly not, since this is being posted kinda late); but tickets ARE available for the weekend shows.
Apparently it rocks the fuck out.  So go check it out if you’re near the NYC area.
Patrick
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fw: [DrugWar] Pot users less depressed, new study reports
Date: November 18, 2005 at 3:25:55 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
ALBANY, NEW YORK—In the largest-ever study of marijuana and depression,
to be published in the journal Addictive Behaviors, daily or weekly
marijuana users had fewer symptoms of depression than non-users.
Marijuana users were also more likely to report positive moods and fewer
somatic complaints such as sleeplessness. Noteworthy differences were
also found between those using marijuana for medical purposes and
non-medical or “recreational” users.
snip-
“Drug Czar John Walters has tried to frighten Americans about marijuana,
using exaggerated and incomplete data cherry-picked to support his
ideology,” said Rob Kampia, executive director of the Marijuana Policy
Project in Washington, D.C. “Science should be used to inform policy,
not manipulated to scare the public.”
snip-
more below
Peace and love,
Preston Peet
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —– From: “Jules Siegel” <siegel@cafecancun.com>
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 2:36 PM
Subject: [DrugWar] Pot users less depressed, new study reports
http://www.mpp.org/releases/nr20051117.html
New Study: Marijuana Users Less Depressed
Largest-Ever Study of Marijuana, Depression Finds Fewer Depressive Symptoms, Better Mood
[Press release]
ALBANY, NEW YORK—In the largest-ever study of marijuana and depression, to be published in the journal Addictive Behaviors, daily or weekly marijuana users had fewer symptoms of depression than non-users. Marijuana users were also more likely to report positive moods and fewer somatic complaints such as sleeplessness. Noteworthy differences were also found between those using marijuana for medical purposes and non-medical or “recreational” users.
The new research appears to contradict statements by some government officials suggesting that marijuana is a cause of depression. For example, in a May 3, 2005, press release from the White House Office of National Drug Control Policy, ONDCP Director John Walters said, “Marijuana use, particularly during the teen years, can lead to depression, thoughts of suicide and schizophrenia.”
“Not only does marijuana not cause depression, it looks like it may actually alleviate it,” said Mitch Earleywine, co-author of the new study and associate professor of psychology at the University at Albany, State University of New York.
Earleywine and co-investigator Thomas F. Denson of the University of Southern California used an Internet questionnaire that allowed them to survey a very large sample of marijuana users and non-users, totaling over 4,400 participants. Use of the Internet also made it possible to include highly depressed or marijuana-involved participants who might be unable or unwilling to participate in in-person or telephone surveys.
Participants were asked to report their use of marijuana and were divided into three categories: daily users, those who used marijuana within the last month but no more than once per week (weekly users) and those who had never used marijuana in their lifetime (non-users). Depression and related issues were assessed using the Center for Epidemiologic Studies Depression scale, a standard tool for researching depression and associated symptoms.
Both daily and weekly marijuana users had significantly lower levels of depression and higher levels of positive mood than non-users. Weekly users also had lower levels of somatic complaints such as sleeplessness. Effects were generally large, with marijuana users approximately 30% less depressed than non-users.
The study is the first to specifically look at depression in medical marijuana users as compared to non-medical users. The most common complaints listed by medical users surveyed were nausea, vomiting, cancer, attention deficit and poor appetite. Medical users generally were more depressed and had more somatic complaints than non-medical users, but still reported fewer such symptoms than non-users.
“Those who use marijuana to battle the symptoms of illness may be depressed because of their illness, not because of marijuana,” Earleywine said. “Studies that do not identify medical use might falsely implicate marijuana, rather than sickness, as the cause of depressed feelings.”
The new study adds to a growing body of knowledge suggesting that marijuana’s active components, called cannabinoids, may be beneficial in certain psychological disorders. In a review published this May in the Journal of Psychopharmacology, researchers form the University of Newcastle upon Tyne in Great Britain noted, “Patient reports and observations, backed by known pharmacology, suggest that the cannabis derivatives delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) and cannabidiol (CBD) may have mood stabilizing properties,” including anti-depressant and anti-anxiety effects.
“Drug Czar John Walters has tried to frighten Americans about marijuana, using exaggerated and incomplete data cherry-picked to support his ideology,” said Rob Kampia, executive director of the Marijuana Policy Project in Washington, D.C. “Science should be used to inform policy, not manipulated to scare the public.”
With more than 18,000 members and 120,000 e-mail subscribers nationwide, the Marijuana Policy Project is the largest marijuana policy reform organization in the United States. MPP works to minimize the harm associated with marijuana—both the consumption of marijuana and the laws that are intended to prohibit such use. MPP believes that the greatest harm associated with marijuana is imprisonment. For more information, please visit http://www.MarijuanaPolicy.org.
REFERENCE: Denson, Thomas F. and Earleywine, Mitchell, “Decreased Depression in Marijuana Users,” Addictive Behaviors, in press, available at http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/journal/03064603.
JULES SIEGEL Apdo. 1764 77501-Cancun Q. Roo Mexico
http://www.cafecancun.com/bookarts
Newsroom-l, news and issues for journalists
http://www.newsroom-l.net/blog
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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Insomnia Post Ibogaine
Date: November 18, 2005 at 12:40:18 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In a message dated 11/17/2005 9:15:42 AM Central Standard Time, myeboga@yahoo.co.uk writes:
These days i do about 500mg
Lee, how often do you do Ibogaine? I am sure I should know this but where do you live?
Callie
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] FUKEN COMP
Date: November 18, 2005 at 12:38:13 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Wow! Thanks Matt! What an experience! Your recall of it is so detailed. Does everyone remember everything so well? My memory sucks! Knowing the little bit about Ibogaine that I know, you are supposed to remember …..it would aid in your enlightenment which aids you in staying drug free. Right?
Callie
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] send good vibes
Date: November 18, 2005 at 11:36:37 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
consider them sent, I’ve got a few extra (that considering how up and down I’ve been lately I should maybe hold on to, but that would be greedy, so again, consider the postive vibes sent your friend’s way) at the moment.
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —– From: matthew zielinski
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 7:17 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] send good vibes
hey people
pls send positive vibes to a friend who will be having a session tomorow afternoon….the more the merrier :}
a candle is burning for u already my friend
with love
matt
Don’t just Search. Find! The new MSN Search: Fast. Clear. Easy. /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] book release parties news
Date: November 18, 2005 at 11:16:55 AM EST
To: “Newsroom-L” <newsroom-l@lists.netspace.org>, <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi all,
  We had my new book release shin-dig last night, but everyone really turned up to hear and see Graham Hancock talk about his new book, “Supernatural: Meetings with the Ancient Teachers of Mankind,” and his presentation, which we held at Alex Gray’s Chapel of Sacred Mirrors, was incredible and perfect for such a venue too. I mean it, we had a HUGE overflow crowd, I’d estimate at least 300 people crammed into that place last night, with both the main gallery and the Room of Sacred Mirrors (where they had tv monitors set up) were both full to standing room (well, the Room of Mirrors wasn’t quite standing room only, but still, there were a lot of people in there). Then, some of us got to hand out in Alex’s inner sanctum in the back of the gallery, where his half-finished paintings sit, some older stuff, and other amazing art was all over the place, and if it weren’t for all that smoke clouding the air and my eyes (not to mention a bit of my brain) they have been REALLY brilliant in their colors and beauty- as it was they still rocked and the evening went perfectly. I couldn’t have asked for a more fun book release party- except for last year’s, when we had strippers on the bar and V and I dj’d- that was a pretty good party too- last night wasn’t so much a party as it was a presentation and lecture, and it rocked. Graham Hancock is definitely one of my inspirations, and I don’t care what anyone else thinks. He’s awesome and a great guy too, as is his wife and photographer Santha Faiia. Graham’s lecture on hallucinogenic plants and the question as to whether the mind is “creating” or “receiving” “hallucinations” was totally and completely wonderful, a surprise sorta in that I thought he was going to be discussing the chapters he contributed to the new book, but I didn’t care one bit. His presentation, now on my own computer too due to his paranoia about technical problems hitting at the last moment, is absolutelyy worth catching, so if you see him listed as appearing in your city, go check it out if you are at all interested in the topic of why mankind suddenly, after so many thousands of years of nothing, was suddenly painting, creating art, and thinking.
(btw, I’m still feeling minor withdrawals, but also feel so damned good about things, at least today, that I simply don’t care about how icky my skin and muscles, not to mention all that pain in my back and leg, feel.)
  The next book thing/reading/panel discussion I’m taking part in is at Manhattan’s Museum of Sex, on Dec. 1, another Thursday, so if you’re in town make plans to come.
Here’s the notice:
WHEN:
Thursday, December 1, 2005, 7pm – 9pm
WHERE:
MUSEUM OF SEX
233 Fifth Avenue (@ 27th Street)
New York, NY 10016
212-689-6337
www.museumofsex.org
$10 for adults and $8 for students/members
WHAT:
Everything You Know About Sex is Wrong
Reading, Panel and Q&A
Moderated by Disinformation’s “Wicked Warlock” Richard Metzger
Come celebrate the release of Disinformation’s new book
EVERYTHING YOU KNOW ABOUT SEX IS WRONG
The Disinformation Guide to the Extremes of Human Sexuality
(and everything in between)
Edited by RUSS KICK
Scheduled to participate:
Writer and editor Rachel Kramer Bussel (Penthouse, Village Voice)
Writer/performer Christen Clifford (Babylove, 17 Guys I F**ked)
Author Martha Cornog (The Big Book of Masturbation)
Author Jay Gertzman (Bookleggers and Smuthounds: The Trade in Eroitca, 1920-1940)
Writer Jon Hart (New York Times, Village Voice)
Writer and Adult Marketing Nerd Libby Lynn (Rollertrain blog)
Author Rachel Maines (The Technology of Orgasm, Asbestos and Fire)
Author Jack Murnighan (The Naughty Bits, Classic Nasty)
Author, actor, DJ, musician, psychonaut, and explorer Preston Peet
Award winning journalist and writer Diane Petryk-Bloom
Pervert, smut peddler, and nakedteer Audacia Ray ($pread magazine)
Musician and Author Jen Sincero (The Straight Girl’s Guide to Sleeping with Chicks)
Award-winning author, columnist, editor, director and sex educator Tristan Taormino
Peace and love,
Preston Peet
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] RE: ibogaine and REM
Date: November 18, 2005 at 10:39:35 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hey Luke,
For me, I’m pretty sure the lack of REM sleep post-ibogaine some people
experience (and that they experience it as really a drag) is the drug
continuing to try and open the body up and allow feelings out. I would have
to recommend some form of early morning catharsis as the best way of dealing
with it. Osho Dynamic Meditation is good, or something similar.
I’ve seen time and again, personally and in my therapist role, that early
morning REM seems to integrate unresolved unconscious issues only on a
superficial level and that, every now and again, the body seeks to deprive
one of it as a means to try and open us up more.
Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: Luke Christoffersen [mailto:luke.christoffersen@gmail.com]
Sent: 14 November 2005 23:15
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: ibogaine and REM
I’ve never been able to figure out sleeping patterns.  I find it much
harder to wake up the last year or so after ibogaine. It takes me
longer to wake up and be alert, I feel much worse in the morning and
wake up at night.
I took melatonin a few times.  I think it’s supposed to increase REM
sleep.  I found mself having more lucid dreams and quite detailed
about thinks in my past.  It seems to enhance certain aspects of
memory.  Also if I drank alot of alcohol I would sometimes have really
detailed dreams about childhood stuff the following night.  Perhaps
rebound REM?
On 11/14/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
—–Original Message—–
From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com [mailto:Edfriedrichs@aol.com]
Sent: 14 November 2005 04:56
To: nick227@tiscali.co.uk
Subject: Thanx, Nick!
Appreciate your interest and comments.  Love your repeated
poetic metaphor
of “underground!”  To make the “awareness” sound a little more
“scientific,”
consider the possibility that dreaming (REM-Stage Sleep) provides that
awareness, IF we get enough of it!  Carl Jung, an eminent dream analyst,
would certainly agree with us.  As confusing as dreams can be (mine are
unanalysable!), they do seem to “heal” the slings and arrows of the day.
For all we know, dreaming enough may contribute to the creative
“Aha” ideas
we get during the day that come from “nowhere.”  Others hypothesize that
when we go deeply into “ourselves,” e.i. mystic states produced by
meditation, religious probing, etc., we do “find” God, or
better known as
THE source of truth, wisdom, humility and forgiveness.  Whadda ya think?
Since NREM Stage Sleep occurs mainly early in the night, and
REM-Stage Sleep
occurs later toward morning, when we shorten our sleep habits
to six, five
or four hours, we primarily lose REM Sleep.  All the drugs of
addiction (not
to mention most all psychiatric medica-tions!) ALSO suppress REM-Sleep,
leaving drug dependent folks severely deprived of REM-Sleep.
Almost too easy
an explanation!  Appreciatively, Dr. Ed
Hi Ed,
Thanks for the feedback. I would certainly agree that frequently dreams
appear to integrate and thus reduce the emotional charge of
some situations
playing on the psyche. About going in generally, and mystical
stuff, I’ve
always been a bit of the opinion that dreams are essentially pretty
superficial things and that the dreamstate isn’t in itself a
particularly
deep or mystical state of consciousness. I could be wrong. I guess,
traditionally, “God” seems to be regarded more likely to appear through
meditation than in dreamstates.
About the REM sleep of early morning, I find it hard to decide whether
losing it is actually a good or bad thing. It is not clear for
me. For sure,
we all like to have a good night’s rest and feel calm and ready for the
forthcoming day. However, in my therapist role, it is frequently evident
that reducing participant’s sleep in weekend therapy groups
brings them more
into their feelings and that this is useful in helping them become more
aware of their own internal processes and release internal
tensions. This
seems to me to relate to ibogaine treatment in that those who’ve done
ibogaine frequently relate that they have trouble sleeping for a period
afterwards. The implication, to my mind, is that morning REM
sleep might be
useful in resolving current emotional issues at a superficial level, but
that a more profound resolution can be had through REM
deprivation and some
form of integrative process (therapy). Thus, the drug is attempting to
deepen its issue-resolving work through giving some people REM
deprivation.
A few thoughts. What do you think?
I’ll cc this to the ibogaine as there might be people also
interested in REM
and ibogaine there. Hope you don’t mind.
All the best
Nick
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From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] send good vibes
Date: November 17, 2005 at 7:17:36 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com


hey people
pls send positive vibes to a friend who will be having a session tomorow afternoon….the more the merrier :}
a candle is burning for u already my friend
with love
matt
Don’t just Search. Find! The new MSN Search: Fast. Clear. Easy. /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: anti-deps
Date: November 17, 2005 at 2:39:59 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi all, thanks for the input, that’s why I love you guyz n gals so much J
Feeling pretty good considering!!  Just the odd “zap” to my energy field, but, there’s so much going on cosmically ,believe it  or not, doesn’t matter… just the perfect time to come off them… not noticing it too much cos already space cadetted!!!!  Had a bit of a release session last night, but the whole while I was thinking how good it actually felt…. Heh, im a weirdo lol
Thanks again
Kirk xxxxxx
From: Matthew Shriver [mailto:matt@itsupport.net] 
Sent: Friday, 18 November 2005 7:35 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Coming off anti-depressants
Anti-depressants do not increase production of or substitute for serotonin or any other neurotransmitters.  They inhibit the normal reuptake by neurons.  I don’t know what this says about withdrawal symptoms from anti-depressants but I am sure that there is no sudden shift onto the body of production like there is with opiate withdrawal and endorphins.
From: shelley krupa [mailto:skrupa20022002@yahoo.com] 
Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 8:25 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Coming off anti-depressants
Hi All ,to the best of my understanding ,withdrawal is caused in part by the body having to produce its own serotonin ( or whatever neurotransmiters the ad was targeting)againa as well as the washout, I had a freing who had wd form prozac for 6 weeks,love shell

CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
As said previously, it depends on what you were on and how long you have taken it. Some antidepressants build a level in your body so to speak, before they are effective. I don’t know but seems to me that it might take a while for them to totally clear your system.
What were you taking and for how long? I will try to find answer for you if I could have that ifo.
Callie
Yahoo! FareChase – Search multiple travel sites in one click.
From: “Matthew Shriver” <matt@itsupport.net>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Coming off anti-depressants
Date: November 17, 2005 at 1:35:18 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Anti-depressants do not increase production of or substitute for serotonin or any other neurotransmitters.  They inhibit the normal reuptake by neurons.  I don’t know what this says about withdrawal symptoms from anti-depressants but I am sure that there is no sudden shift onto the body of production like there is with opiate withdrawal and endorphins.
From: shelley krupa [mailto:skrupa20022002@yahoo.com] 
Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 8:25 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Coming off anti-depressants
Hi All ,to the best of my understanding ,withdrawal is caused in part by the body having to produce its own serotonin ( or whatever neurotransmiters the ad was targeting)againa as well as the washout, I had a freing who had wd form prozac for 6 weeks,love shell

CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
As said previously, it depends on what you were on and how long you have taken it. Some antidepressants build a level in your body so to speak, before they are effective. I don’t know but seems to me that it might take a while for them to totally clear your system.
What were you taking and for how long? I will try to find answer for you if I could have that ifo.
Callie
Yahoo! FareChase – Search multiple travel sites in one click.
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] now G. Hancock and Supernatural review/was preston-insomnia
Date: November 17, 2005 at 10:16:01 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
thanks, it’s not easy. it’s pretty rough actually. I’ve been spending all morning thinking about the fact I could go out and buy dope to suppliment my meds, and not going out but sitting here instead, feeling like I’m having this freakin’ battle that just won’t quit in my head, “go ahead, do it, do it, do it,” etc, etc. And I’m having this book event tonight. Egad, so I’m not even eating the ms-contin I have for today yet, waiting as long as possible in hopes that if I take both that I have alloted myself together I’ll be able to manage the event without too much pain and withdrawals both.
Thanks for the well wishings and positive vibes.
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —– From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 11:49 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] now G. Hancock and Supernatural review/was preston-insomnia
In a message dated 11/16/2005 12:27:38 AM Central Standard Time, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:
Even in pretty steady
withdrawals- but fairly minor compared to some experiences (I am still
taking a small amount of opiates, so it’s not like I’m cold turkeying
completely, just very, very drastically reducing my intake)-
Preston, I am so impressed that you are doing this and amazed that you can take just a small amount of opiates while you are feeling like crap! I would never be able to do that! If I felt bad I would eat them all. You hang in there though….I am THRILLED that you are pulling this self-detox off (saying that with fingers crossed!).
Sending positive vibes your way!
Callie
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fw: APSAD conference in Melbourne. Day 3.
Date: November 17, 2005 at 10:33:36 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
—– Original Message —– From: Andrew Byrne
To: ajbyrne@ozemail.com.au
Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 6:01 PM
Subject: APSAD conference in Melbourne. Day 3.
APSAD annual scientific conference.  Day three: Wednesday 9th November 2005.
The third day of the East Melbourne addiction meeting started with an up-date by Keith Humphreys on the place of Alcoholics Anonymous and other self-help groups in managing addictions.  He quoted the estimated staggering numbers of such groups as AA, NA, Alanon, Alateen, Cocaine Anon, etc, across the world.  While accepting that scientific proof of the benefits of such social interventions are not possible, he stated that numerous high quality studies showed that health budgets saved large sums from those who chose to use self-help rather than traditional medical services such as counselling, cognitive behavioural approaches and pharmacotherapies.  He also quoted one of the most convincing studies from 1981 in which not one patient who was ‘passively’ referred to AA actually attended a meeting.  This compared with 100% who had a personal telephone referral from an AA sponsor.  This is consistent with my own experience in simply recommending AA by handing a leaflet with dates, time and addresses of local meetings.
The next talk was by Annie Madden who spoke eloquently about ethics of research on subjects with drug and alcohol issues.  Ms Madden was commended for her work in various capacities with and for drug users in NSW and Canberra over many years.  This was backed up later by Adam Winstock who praised the Intravenous League for their cooperation and assistance in some of his novel research on drug diversion in South West Sydney.  In this parallel session he and his colleague Tony Jackson showed that in their diverse Health Service cohort both methadone and buprenorphine were diverted for numerous reasons.  Their findings indicated that about 5 per 1000 doses of buprenorphine were diverted.  This was more commonly reported from those treated in community pharmacies where time and other factors make effective direct supervision less practicable.  He said that one public clinic stated that they have had absolutely NO diversion yet his confidential questionnaire showed that the clinic had dozens of such instances reported by patients.  Dr Winstock takes a non-judgemental line in addressing diversion, treating each case individually and working on the issues leading to the apparent misuse of the prescribed medication.  He reminded us of two ways buprenorphine can be diverted, (1) obscuring the drug within the mouth and (2) secreting it elsewhere during administration.  These were reported to be equally prevalent in western Sydney. ‘Cracking’ the tablets to coarse granules was probably an effective strategy both in aiding absorption and preventing diversion.  However if tablets are pulverised to powder this can defeat both aims by creating either a milky solution which is swallowed or else forming a paste which is not absorbed at all well either.  [In our own service we usually break the tablets in two and to observe them ‘in situ’ at least twice before they have gone.]
The reasons respondents gave for diverting their medication included: (1) to take later in the day (2) to inject (3) to sell (4) to take a lower dose (5) to store (or ‘squirrel’ as Dr Bell terms it).  Dr Winstock speculated on the ‘big picture’ reasons for such diversion as being: (1) the continued shortage of treatment positions (2) constraints on such treatment (3) desire for lower maintenance doses (4) as a replacement for street heroin (ie for illicit purposes).  Overall he felt that diversion itself was prima facie evidence for a breakdown in the therapeutic relationship, rather than just a lack of understanding of motivations behind it.  He pointed out that especially since the ‘heroin drought’ buprenorphine and methadone can be excellent value on the streets, being cheap and longer acting.
Another important contribution on day three was Winstock’s other paper described three means of starting buprenorphine in an attempt to avoid early drop-outs.  His own elegant longitudinal study showed in a variety of community patients, those who were given over 17mg in the first three days of treatment had almost twice the chances of still being in treatment at 6 months as those given 17mg or less (54% vs. 29%).  He also found heavy heroin users had higher drop-out rates.  We were told that whether methadone or buprenorphine, the first few weeks are crucial since inadequate dosing may be the reason for some to drop-out.  The risk of early toxicity with methadone is far lower when using buprenorphine . hence his and others’ suggestion at this conference that we move away from the ‘start low – go slow’ approach and move to a ‘new paradigm’ for a ‘new drug’.  His preference was for 8mg on the first morning with an option for an extra 2-8mg later that day if desired.  Some follow on day 2 with 12mg or more if cravings, insomnia or drug use persist.  In our surgery we usually start with 4mg and repeat later in the day if needed (which it often is).
Nick Lintzeris then told us about his study from London (with Ridge, Gossop, Strang and Witton) looking at a large number of maintenance treatment starts (or re-starts) as to preference, experience of and actual prescription for four drugs: methadone, buprenorphine, lofexidine and dihydrocodeine.  He suggested that lofexidine ‘is hardly used any more in England’ and that ‘it is virtually the same as clonidine, except much more expensive’.  He showed many comparative figures, reflecting much work from his team, but which overall showed that most patients eventually got what they had expressed a preference for initially.  Because of the longer duration of action of (pure) buprenorphine, sufficient dose can be given to last 24 hours without causing the sedation which sometimes occurs with methadone.  This gives rise to the ‘clear-headed’ reports from some patients.  However, he also reminded us that many patients feel better on methadone, hence the need for individual choices, the only real other issue being pregnancy where buprenorphine is relatively contraindicated and the combination drugs completely contraindicated.
Nico Clark gave an illuminating talk on transferring in-patients from high dose methadone (between 40 and 100mg) to buprenorphine using clonidine and Valium.  While all were patients wishing to try buprenorphine, several had to return to methadone dissatisfied within 2 weeks of the transfer.  A significant proportion were only slightly uncomfortable and some had no withdrawal symptoms at all.  The methadone was stopped for a full 24 hours and where possible for 48 hours while close observations were done in the detoxification centre being used.
Suzi Nielsen spoke about the Melbourne experience with buprenorphine and benzodiazepines.  It was one of several descriptions during the conference which all seemed to be quite consistent.  A majority of opioid maintenance patients (up to two thirds) have used benzodiazepines in the past 6 months and about 10-20% are dependent at any one time.  One strategy was given from the Adelaide group presented by Kate Morefield on how to deal with this problem.  Following on the work of Rickells, they tested a protocol to put long-term dependent patients onto 40 weeks stepped reduction doses of long acting benzodiazepine, in this case clonazepam.  They used 5 weeks slow reductions by 25%, followed by 5 weeks plateau doses which was repeated in steps.  The final reductions were more individually tailored.  The drug was to be taken supervised on the same regimen as the opioid, from the same dispensary.  Matched benzo users in parallel and “usual” treatment were used as controls and at the end of 12 months, despite numerous relapses, far less benzodiazepine (about 75% less) was being consumed by the trial patients. Such interventions are unlikely to eliminate benzo use but should enable substantial reduction in overall use of the drug, consistent with harm reduction principles.  It is probably the responsibility of maintenance prescribers to address benzodiazepine use in their patients – yet many clinics and pharmacies still do not have a protocol of dispensing or administering for such dual dependencies.  Poisons regulations are not attuned to this in some states.  Community pharmacy may not be ideal for such treatment in new or unstable patients where there is a choice of a specialist clinic.  It may be that a subsidised PBS item number for ‘administration’ of a small quantity of diazepam could solve the major conundrum that when we prescribe less than 50 tablets it costs our patients more money.
Presentations on hepatitis C reminded us that 90% of such infections occur in drug users and it is the responsibility of every maintenance prescriber to address this disease.  Greg Dore and his group described early results of a multicentre trial of the treatment of ‘acute’ (or at least recently acquired) HCV using 24 weeks pegylated interferon.  The treatment looks promising in HCV but may not be effective in HIV co-infected patients.  Nick Walsh and Turning Point team are up-beat about a dependency clinic as a ‘one stop shop’ for addressing blood borne viruses (BBV).  Their abstract described the use of a peer counsellor to facilitate regular in-house blood testing to monitor the need for vaccination (HBV, HAV) and/or referral for biopsy.  They also dispense anti-virals at the clinic.  In the same bracket Ian Chaussivert points to the enormity of the problem by describing early numbers from their ‘clinic within a clinic’ started in January.  Out of an estimated 550 HCV carriers who have been in contact with their service, up to 200 may benefit from treatment.  In the first 5 months, they assessed 32 patients and two have commenced therapy while 4 await biopsy.  While these models may be very useful for New South Wales where a large proportion of patients are treated in clinics, other strategies are needed for other states and territories where community pharmacies deliver most opioid maintenance treatment.  A more traditional medical referral system requires that doctors ensure that their maintenance prescription patients have blood tests ordered and referred as appropriate.  A useful model might be Pap smears for cervical cancer which are now standard practice.  Ian Kronborg and colleagues related a slightly larger pilot study of 23 methadone patients prescribed ‘standard’ antiviral treatment of 24 or 48 weeks (40% genotype 1, 55% genotype 3, 16% already with cirrhosis).  We await further results after the full 50 outcomes have been tabulated.
I apologise if these summaries seem to be biased towards my own ‘medical’ interests.  In fact many other fascinating subjects were covered in this conference.  These included stimulant use and abuse, performance enhancing drugs, policy issues, injecting rooms, Aboriginal health, ethics, drugs and driving, alcohol “Interlock” ignition lock program, designer party drugs, withdrawal practices, drugs in pregnancy, specialist College policies, pain management and more.
It was disappointing that despite just receiving Commonwealth funding of up to 2 million dollars, those utilising naltrexone implants and performing rapid detoxification did not present any of their experimental findings.  We could sure use funding like that in Redfern where our patients often have to pay $2000 or more per year out of their own pockets for pharmacy dispensing of their medication.
Melbourne is a beautiful city and it is a good time of year to visit.  It was a frustration to have to stay indoors for the conference.  I hope most delegates from out of town managed to enjoy some of the city’s pleasures aside from the meeting.  Congratulations to the conference organisers and presenters.  The ever-present Walter Ling from California has said that he believes our annual APSAD conference is probably the worlds second largest and certainly most diverse dependency ‘talkfest’ (after the AATOD meeting which is held every 18 months in North America – next is April in Atlanta).
Comments by Andrew Byrne ..
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 Dr Andrew Byrne MB BS (Syd) FAChAM (RACP)
 Dependency Medicine,
 75 Redfern Street, Redfern,
 New South Wales, 2016, Australia
 Email – ajbyrneATozemail.com.au
 Tel (61 – 2) 9319 5524  Fax 9318 0631
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2005/s1418817.htm
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From: shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Coming off anti-depressants
Date: November 17, 2005 at 10:24:47 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi All ,to the best of my understanding ,withdrawal is caused in part by the body having to produce its own serotonin ( or whatever neurotransmiters the ad was targeting)againa as well as the washout, I had a freing who had wd form prozac for 6 weeks,love shell
CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
As said previously, it depends on what you were on and how long you have taken it. Some antidepressants build a level in your body so to speak, before they are effective. I don’t know but seems to me that it might take a while for them to totally clear your system.
What were you taking and for how long? I will try to find answer for you if I could have that ifo.
Callie
Yahoo! FareChase – Search multiple travel sites in one click.
From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Insomnia Post Ibogaine
Date: November 17, 2005 at 6:52:06 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi,
My 2 cents worth.
I expected after my first treatment to lose sleep but I don’t recall that happening. Maybe for a few days i slept a little less but nothing like the 3 months reported.
These days i do about 500mg and usually I sleep after about 8 hours for about 2 hours or so into the morning, then the same day I have a welcome siesta (I start my journeys the night before) and that night i am usually quite snug in bed – occasionally the need for sleep on this first night is less. However within a few days i am really tired and need a good sleep to make up for the sleep lost on the night of the session.
So I dont have these sleep issues except the first 12 to 18 hours after ingestion. I may recall having had a few low sleep days occasionally following a session but lack of sleep on a prolonged basis has never been my experience – maybe I will recall something later but right now thats how I remember it.
I have never taken ibo for drug dependence except to kick nicotine.
Lee
Mark Corcoran <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Randy. Thats exactly what I was saying but I just had the opportunity to sit down in front of my computer now. Lookin forward to some more venisin at Christmas time.
My own personal expereince; I took Ibogaine 3 times. The first treatment was for methadone and dope. 18 mg/kg flood and then 3mg/kg for 5 days. I got a good night sleep every night except the first night (obviously) although I have seen people literally sleep through the entire stage two.
Anyway, after my last dose of Ibogaine I immedaitely couldn’t sleep at all. It was an hour at best and gradually got a bit better every day but it took weeks. That lasted for at least a month or so.
Then unfortunately,  I started chipping again within 3 months or so. Without developing a habit I was lucky enough to take another 10 mg/kg within two weeks after my first get high. Obviously at that point I was on my way to being strung out again but I don’t think I was physically addicted yet. Again I didn’t sleep that first night but after that I went immedately back to a normal sleeping pattern the second night.
I put next to no clean time together after the second treatment. Then after 4 months of getting high and developing another full fledged habit shooting dope on the weekdays and trying desperately but to no avail to get clean by buying methadone bottles on the weekend I was again fortunate enough to do another full treatment 26 mg/kg. Again after my last treatment almost a year ago I didn’t sleep for almost 2 weeks. 1 hour here, another there.
So in my humble opinon , I’m going to assume that the insomnia was withdrawal related and I had no other symptoms.
I guess its different for everyone but for me the evidence is pretty ironclad. When I didn’t have a habit I slept and when I did I didn’t.
But who knows I could be wrong. -M.
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: Preston: & Insomnia Post Ibogaine
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 12:33:33 EST
In a message dated 11/15/05 9:16:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, Edfriedrichs@aol.com writes:
“psychospiritual sessions” and “coke treatment:”  not sure what those amount to.  Explain…….   But it’s fine to question whether post-treatment insomnia is peculiar to Ibogaine Rx.  Dr. Ed
Ed, I think what is meant here is doing a treatment for spiritual purpose and cocaine not being an opiate but still being treatable with Ibogaine, people sleep a little easier after the session.          Randy
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Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] FUKEN COMP
Date: November 17, 2005 at 6:36:27 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Matt,
Nicely written and very interesting.
I would like to put some questions if thats ok.
What dose did you take and could you tell us how many journeys you have taken, the doses and the time intervals between journeys? Where you relapsed on each occasion?
Thanks for sharing that,
Lee
matthew zielinski <mattzielinski@hotmail.com> wrote:
k lets try this
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Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] FUKEN COMP
Date: November 17, 2005 at 5:31:01 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Thanks Matt.
Beautiful to read.
So very glad you are here with us today.
Kia Kaha my brother
Kirsty xx
From: matthew zielinski [mailto:mattzielinski@hotmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, 17 November 2005 9:42 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] FUKEN COMP


k lets try this
Free yourself from those irritating pop-up ads with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE*
From: Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] FUKEN COMP
Date: November 17, 2005 at 1:55:07 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Matt, that was beautiful!!!
matthew zielinski wrote:
k lets try this
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From: Carol Ann <saffireskyes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] my last ibo exp
Date: November 17, 2005 at 12:38:12 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
It’s beautiful.
matthew zielinski <mattzielinski@hotmail.com> wrote:
hi people
Here is a little description of my last ibo trip…yest was 8 weeks clean!! :}}…HOW FUKEN COOL IS TAHT!!!!
LOVE
MATT
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Best regards,
Carol
_______________________________
Never Accept Only Two Choices in Life.
The problems of Today cannot be solved by the same thinking that created them.
-Al Einstein.
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] on tomorrow’s Underground event in Manhattan
Date: November 16, 2005 at 9:51:42 PM EST
To: “Newsroom-L” <newsroom-l@lists.netspace.org>, <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
http://www.villagevoice.com/nyclife/0546,bosler,70050,15.html
Amazingly, they only mention the fact that it’s a book release shin-dig for the book Undergound (my new book, which looks great) as an aside, sort of an “oh yeah, btw, there’s this book he, G. Hancock contributed to that will also be discussed.” But any press is good press, right?
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
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From: Luke Christoffersen <luke.christoffersen@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ot) Trepanation??? vector wtf??? lol
Date: November 16, 2005 at 7:20:11 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Eastern Europe has been a brutal place for millennia. Count Dracula?
And likewise, there is a cadre of women there who know this, learned
from their mothers or other women in their communities. They *never*
embraced Christian Fundamentalism, Puritanism, or the Protestant work
ethic. The romance movies had far less effect on them; their men had
mistresses, and still do. They thot the whole Monica thing with WJC
was ridiculous, and could not afford the myth of the loving nuclear
family to keep them out of the sex trade.
I don’t know what WJC is? Oh Yeah I see Clinton! Everyone has their
underlying agendas. The sex trafficers pray off the vulnerable.
Seems reasonable as far as it goes. But epidemiological studies now
show increasing rates of some kinds of mental pathologies are the
result of environmental pollution. The Autism rate, for instance,
went thru the roof in the Indian villages downwind from transnat
agribusiness cotton plantations in Bengal. That’s just Autism. We
quit using leaded gas cause it made kids stupid. What else is there
in the food, water, and indoor/outdoor air that causes pathologies,
and which pathologies are they?
I’m sure pollutions help cause some illnesses.  What I’m curious about
is what effects this money driven society will have on he future
generations mental health if childeren are neglected because both
parents are forced to work to make ends meet.
“Original Sin” is a *Christian* idea. It comes out of the Levantine myth
that says that sex is evil as a way of disempowering women. And that in
turn comes out of the scripture which was designed to pander to the
instincts of alpha males and justify what they do. Thus today, what we
read Joshua did to the Canaanites and Philistines we now call genocide,
which Jehovah was setup to justify to provide the “Promised Land”.
I agree that might be a way of disempowering women but I also think
that the males in power are acting out their own pain,of birth or
childhood, as a revenge for the suffering caused by the mother.
I dont deny that could be a factor. Look at “Demonic Males” by Wrangham
and Peterson, who report on a number of primate field studies of the
apes: Gorilla, Chimpanzee, Orangutan, & Bonobo. Their males went thru
the same birth process, but none of them were raised in a ghetto, and
some had competent mothers, some not, but there is little correlation
in their behavior either way. Some aggressive, some not.
I read some articles that finds a correlation in violence in those
monkeys raised by violent mothers.  Those raised by non violent
mothers didn’t grow up to be violent.  I think alot of humans suffer
more violence at birth.  Many with complications may be delivered by
violent means such as forceps.  They would have died in the wild.
I don’t buy the alpha male thing. If it were true all the leaders
would be that tall well build and good looking, perfect specimins.
This is not the case.  Hitler was a small man driven to take out his
own pain and insecurities on those around him.
Granted that we have the term from primate field studies, and that the
hominids are far more complex. So, while brute force is sufficient to
gain dominance in apes, more subtle forces are needed with hominids. I
see the popularity of WWF as reflective of the instinct for brute force,
but we all know the fans are not the kind of personalities that are then
put in power. Which is not to say that they would not *want* to be. The
WWF is a vicarious expression of the instinct. Likewise the DND computer
games, Rambo movies, etc.
I suspect people driven to gain power are driven by their own
childhood pain and helplessness.  I think there’s an unhealthy need to
be in control.  I always used to wonder why people who make a fortune
keep on driving at their business or whatever instead of enjoying what
they have.  I don’t think any amount of power can ever fullfill the
emptiness this people spend their lives supressing. With WWF people
escape for a while and live through their favorite wrestler.  I used
to watch it as a kid.
Like Hitler, timing is important. They’ve seen where primate females get
the idea that they had enough of the alpha male genes, and flee from him
such that the other males pick this up. They then begin to challenge the
old boy, taking him on one at a time. At some point, he gets tired, gets
unlucky, whatever, and a new alpha male results. Nevertheless, he still
must be fit, smart enough to see opportunity, and especially in hominids
be able to read the body language of others and respond with the correct
moves at the correct time. But good looks and charisma helps.
I’m not sure. I don’t know that much about these rituals and their
uses.Who knows why they need to do battle in the first place.
The conflict is to justify their existence. The alternative is the lack
of violence seen in matriarchic cultures. The main reason matriarchy
failed, was that the smart women in charge did *not* bear enough kids
to maintain their population relative to the breeding of airheads and
patriarchic cultures, and were eventually swept aside by hordes eager
for the kind of battle you refer to. Of course, as with prostitution,
there are many different reasons in particular cultures and persons, but
this aspect is common in all of them.
Joseph Campbell, among others, has noted that the onset of menses in
women was a big deal in the early agrarian communities- which tended
to be matriarchic. This makes sense. Even in hunting tribes, while the
men were out hunting, the women were expected to manage veggies in the
local ecosystem. 10,000 years ago, women got really go at it. But then,
as the bronze age and bladed weapons came in, alpha males took over, and
we see this bloodletting mimicked in male rituals.
And the problem is now, that the strong right arm sword in hand, which
has ruled the planet for 5000 years, is no longer sufficient to take
power. Smith & Wesson guarantee equal rights for women. The ultimate
weapon, which the alpha male leaders asked to be developed, Nukes, had
the result of making them all aware, that if a war started, it would be
the kings, not the grunts, who get to die first. A bellicose alpha male
attitude became increasingly obviously dangerous.
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From: “Mark Corcoran” <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Insomnia Post Ibogaine
Date: November 16, 2005 at 6:58:38 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Thanks Randy. Thats exactly what I was saying but I just had the opportunity to sit down in front of my computer now. Lookin forward to some more venisin at Christmas time.
My own personal expereince; I took Ibogaine 3 times. The first treatment was for methadone and dope. 18 mg/kg flood and then 3mg/kg for 5 days. I got a good night sleep every night except the first night (obviously) although I have seen people literally sleep through the entire stage two.
Anyway, after my last dose of Ibogaine I immedaitely couldn’t sleep at all. It was an hour at best and gradually got a bit better every day but it took weeks. That lasted for at least a month or so.
Then unfortunately,  I started chipping again within 3 months or so. Without developing a habit I was lucky enough to take another 10 mg/kg within two weeks after my first get high. Obviously at that point I was on my way to being strung out again but I don’t think I was physically addicted yet. Again I didn’t sleep that first night but after that I went immedately back to a normal sleeping pattern the second night.
I put next to no clean time together after the second treatment. Then after 4 months of getting high and developing another full fledged habit shooting dope on the weekdays and trying desperately but to no avail to get clean by buying methadone bottles on the weekend I was again fortunate enough to do another full treatment 26 mg/kg. Again after my last treatment almost a year ago I didn’t sleep for almost 2 weeks. 1 hour here, another there.
So in my humble opinon , I’m going to assume that the insomnia was withdrawal related and I had no other symptoms.
I guess its different for everyone but for me the evidence is pretty ironclad. When I didn’t have a habit I slept and when I did I didn’t.
But who knows I could be wrong. -M.
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: Preston: & Insomnia Post Ibogaine
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 12:33:33 EST
In a message dated 11/15/05 9:16:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, Edfriedrichs@aol.com writes:
“psychospiritual sessions” and “coke treatment:”  not sure what those amount to.  Explain…….   But it’s fine to question whether post-treatment insomnia is peculiar to Ibogaine Rx.  Dr. Ed
Ed, I think what is meant here is doing a treatment for spiritual purpose and cocaine not being an opiate but still being treatable with Ibogaine, people sleep a little easier after the session.          Randy
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From: Day Brown <daybrown@artelco.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ot) Trepanation??? vector wtf??? lol
Date: November 16, 2005 at 5:57:33 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Luke Christoffersen wrote:
It occurs to me that the young women are either in denial, or simply
faking their naivety, so that if the family discovers, they can
say that they were tricked into prostitution. When I lived in New
Orleans, 30 years ago, before HIV, among my friends were a topless
dancer, a former Playboy bunny, and the 3 hookers who lived next
door. All of whom came across as rational, living without romantic
fantasy such as I see so much more of today in young women. Since I
was not family, or in authority, they had no need to justify what
they did, and I enjoyed their company.
I don’t think it’s that simple.
I only mean that this aspect has been overlooked. Not that what you
refer to below is not also going on.
I would think the sex trade is a bit
more brutal in eastern europe.  They offer girls jobs working abroad
as nannies or whatever and beat them and rape them forcing them to
work as prostitues.  They’lll threaten to harm their families if they
don’t co-operate.  There’s probably some do it more freely but I don’t
think it would always be the case.
Eastern Europe has been a brutal place for millennia. Count Dracula?
And likewise, there is a cadre of women there who know this, learned
from their mothers or other women in their communities. They *never*
embraced Christian Fundamentalism, Puritanism, or the Protestant work
ethic. The romance movies had far less effect on them; their men had
mistresses, and still do. They thot the whole Monica thing with WJC
was ridiculous, and could not afford the myth of the loving nuclear
family to keep them out of the sex trade.
That’s got tradeoffs too; much of the income of workers has been spent
on recreational drugs, and as costs rise, some will, as you suggest,
become psychotic, but some will feel the pain of addiction as their
supply becomes short, and quit altogether. And if people move into
co-housing out of financial necessity, they will also find the human
companionship they missed in their private living spaces that will go
a long ways twards meeting emotional needs without drugs.
I’m wondering will people be more driven by neglect in childhood. Maybe there will be more addictions, more mental problems and an
increase in psychopaths.
Seems reasonable as far as it goes. But epidemiological studies now
show increasing rates of some kinds of mental pathologies are the
result of environmental pollution. The Autism rate, for instance,
went thru the roof in the Indian villages downwind from transnat
agribusiness cotton plantations in Bengal. That’s just Autism. We
quit using leaded gas cause it made kids stupid. What else is there
in the food, water, and indoor/outdoor air that causes pathologies,
and which pathologies are they?
“Original Sin” is a *Christian* idea. It comes out of the Levantine myth
that says that sex is evil as a way of disempowering women. And that in
turn comes out of the scripture which was designed to pander to the
instincts of alpha males and justify what they do. Thus today, what we
read Joshua did to the Canaanites and Philistines we now call genocide,
which Jehovah was setup to justify to provide the “Promised Land”.
I agree that might be a way of disempowering women but I also think
that the males in power are acting out their own pain,of birth or
childhood, as a revenge for the suffering caused by the mother.
I dont deny that could be a factor. Look at “Demonic Males” by Wrangham
and Peterson, who report on a number of primate field studies of the
apes: Gorilla, Chimpanzee, Orangutan, & Bonobo. Their males went thru
the same birth process, but none of them were raised in a ghetto, and
some had competent mothers, some not, but there is little correlation
in their behavior either way. Some aggressive, some not.
and at the base of it all is the fact that alpha males lack intuition in
understanding others and what they do. The alpha males definately do
*NOT* “feel your pain”. That would interfere with their ability on the
line of battle to defend the resources of the tribe from other alphas.
Alphas need faster reflexes that compassion would slow down. It is this
that is the original sin. Lacking insight into why others do as they do,
the alphas rely on force, most especially to control access to the women
for the sake of more sons like themselves… which they hope’ll be their
allies. But in fact, often as not, turn against their fathers seeking to
control as their fathers did.
I don’t buy the alpha male thing. If it were true all the leaders
would be that tall well build and good looking, perfect specimins. This is not the case.  Hitler was a small man driven to take out his
own pain and insecurities on those around him.
Granted that we have the term from primate field studies, and that the
hominids are far more complex. So, while brute force is sufficient to
gain dominance in apes, more subtle forces are needed with hominids. I
see the popularity of WWF as reflective of the instinct for brute force,
but we all know the fans are not the kind of personalities that are then
put in power. Which is not to say that they would not *want* to be. The
WWF is a vicarious expression of the instinct. Likewise the DND computer
games, Rambo movies, etc.
Like Hitler, timing is important. They’ve seen where primate females get
the idea that they had enough of the alpha male genes, and flee from him
such that the other males pick this up. They then begin to challenge the
old boy, taking him on one at a time. At some point, he gets tired, gets
unlucky, whatever, and a new alpha male results. Nevertheless, he still
must be fit, smart enough to see opportunity, and especially in hominids
be able to read the body language of others and respond with the correct
moves at the correct time. But good looks and charisma helps.
I’m not sure. I don’t know that much about these rituals and their
uses.Who knows why they need to do battle in the first place.
The conflict is to justify their existence. The alternative is the lack
of violence seen in matriarchic cultures. The main reason matriarchy
failed, was that the smart women in charge did *not* bear enough kids
to maintain their population relative to the breeding of airheads and
patriarchic cultures, and were eventually swept aside by hordes eager
for the kind of battle you refer to. Of course, as with prostitution,
there are many different reasons in particular cultures and persons, but
this aspect is common in all of them.
Joseph Campbell, among others, has noted that the onset of menses in
women was a big deal in the early agrarian communities- which tended
to be matriarchic. This makes sense. Even in hunting tribes, while the
men were out hunting, the women were expected to manage veggies in the
local ecosystem. 10,000 years ago, women got really go at it. But then,
as the bronze age and bladed weapons came in, alpha males took over, and
we see this bloodletting mimicked in male rituals.
And the problem is now, that the strong right arm sword in hand, which
has ruled the planet for 5000 years, is no longer sufficient to take
power. Smith & Wesson guarantee equal rights for women. The ultimate
weapon, which the alpha male leaders asked to be developed, Nukes, had
the result of making them all aware, that if a war started, it would be
the kings, not the grunts, who get to die first. A bellicose alpha male
attitude became increasingly obviously dangerous.
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From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re: amanita
Date: November 16, 2005 at 4:22:58 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
<
Hi
did u ever try the extract>?
how was the xperience compared to ibogaine>?
i know i will do it at some point in my life!
love
matt
btw what u think of alegro’s theory on amanita>?
Don’t just Search. Find! The new MSN Search: Fast. Clear. Easy. /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: Day Brown <daybrown@artelco.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: amanita
Date: November 16, 2005 at 5:10:49 PM EST
To: Pipetman9@aol.com, ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Pipetman9@aol.com wrote:
what is the dose in dry weight?
do you heat the amanita ?
muscimol is water soluble, do you have an idea what alkaloids?
One of the reasons A. Muscaria is not commercially useful, is
that the effective potency is so variable. But I’d try 2 times the
dry weight as the dry mushroom. Do not- if you find fresh shrooms,
use them that way! Slice the caps open immediately, and put them on
the dashboard to dry ASAP to stop the maggots from eating them.
I dont know of any tradition that heated A. Muscaria. I never thot to
try it. I have found that a shroom smoothie, with cream rather than
butter, and then whatever fruit you have, works well for those who do
not like the earthy taste. But like dope smoking, the taste and smell
grows on you.
I dont recall the lab report that said the shrooms were poisonous
because of the fatty alkaloids. Dont recall that Wasson gets into it
very much either. Suffice to say that both the Brahmins and the Ugarit
Shamen used animal fats, and that the conversations I’ve had since with
medical experts realized what the fatty acids were doing.
Start with 1 square cm of cap as soon as you have dried shrooms, and
pay attention after you have eaten that for a day or so to make sure you
are not one of the very few who are allergic. I have *always* given such
small samples to possible initiates at least several days before ritual.
I have always avoided alcohol the day before ritual, and begun dosing
with about 5 sq cm for newbies, 10 cm square for others. Then, after an
hour, dosed again… and occasionally as the nite progressed, people
taking as much more as they were comfortable with. Individual response
varies as well as the potency of the shrooms.
But then wait until the next new or full moon before the next ritual to
let the liver process whatever that potency was.
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From: Day Brown <daybrown@artelco.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Coming off anti-depressants
Date: November 16, 2005 at 4:53:16 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
As said previously, it depends on what you were on and how long you have taken it. Some antidepressants build a level in your body so to speak, before they are effective. I don’t know but seems to me that it might take a while for them to totally clear your system.
What were you taking and for how long? I will try to find answer for you if I could have that ifo.
Callie
Another factor complicating things even further, is that some allergic
reactions people have to stuff in their food, beverages, and both indoor
and outdoor air, are not physical- like asthma, but *psychological*.
Thus, it is that people who move to the country or wherever seem to do
better. Butcha never can tell. There’s a 150 neurotransmitters that have
been identified so far, each of which reacts differently to different
nutrients, or the lack thereof, and the presence or absence of stuff
like pheromones, nitrous oxides, pollens, etc… that then affect a
person’s mood, or even sanity.
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From: shakti@photon.net
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] FUKEN COMP
Date: November 16, 2005 at 3:59:15 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Thank you for sharing that, Matt.
Brenda
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From: Day Brown <daybrown@artelco.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] now G. Hancock and Supernatural review/was preston-insomnia
Date: November 16, 2005 at 4:46:23 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Kewl- didnt know there was a drugwar list. How do I get on it?
2nd, your two cents sometimes fill my screen with many lines
of text, becoming very difficult to read. One of the problems I
am more aware of, that I try to deal with at http://anzi.biz,
which has to do with the tracking ability of the eye.
If a paragraph gets much more than six lines long, when the eye
gets back over to the left margin from the long lines we see so
often on this screen, it starts reading the wrong line.
Those more careful about being understood use short paragraphs.
At least on my end of the Holodeck. Something our decks seem to
share is a pervasive sense of the end of an era; apocalypse, war,
global revolution and/or economic meltdown, which I dont really
know are at hand, or just a plot twist to keep us all involved.
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From: Beatrice Blue <beatriceblue@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] my last ibo exp
Date: November 16, 2005 at 3:42:41 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I didn’t get anything.  No description here.
On 11/16/05 12:32 PM, “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com> wrote:
hi people
Here is a little description of my last ibo trip…yest was 8 weeks clean!! :}}…HOW FUKEN COOL IS TAHT!!!!
LOVE
MATT
Free yourself from those irritating pop-up ads with  MSN Premium:   <http://g.msn.com/8HMBENCA/2734??PS=47575>  Join now and get the first two months FREE*  /]=———————————————————————=[\  [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]  \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] FUKEN COMP
Date: November 16, 2005 at 3:42:29 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
k lets try this
Free yourself from those irritating pop-up ads with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE*
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From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] my last ibo exp
Date: November 16, 2005 at 3:32:32 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
hi people
Here is a little description of my last ibo trip…yest was 8 weeks clean!! :}}…HOW FUKEN COOL IS TAHT!!!!
LOVE
MATT
Free yourself from those irritating pop-up ads with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: Luke Christoffersen <luke.christoffersen@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ot) Trepanation??? vector wtf??? lol
Date: November 16, 2005 at 2:59:18 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
It occurs to me that the young women are either in denial, or simply
faking their naivete, so that if the family discovers, they can
say that they were tricked into prostitution. When I lived in New
Orleans, 30 years ago, before HIV, among my friends were a topless
dancer, a former Playboy bunny, and the 3 hookers who lived next
door. All of whom came across as rational, living without romantic
fantasy such as I see so much more of today in young women. Since I
was not family, or in authority, they had no need to justify what
they did, and I enjoyed their company.
I don’t think it’s that simple.  I would think the sex trade is a bit
more brutal in eastern europe.  They offer girls jobs working abroad
as nannies or whatever and beat them and rape them forcing them to
work as prostitues.  They’lll threaten to harm their families if they
don’t co-operate.  There’s probably some do it more freely but I don’t
think it would always be the case.
That’s got tradeoffs too; much of the income of workers has been spent
on recreational drugs, and as costs rise, some will, as you suggest,
become psychotic, but some will feel the pain of addiction as their
supply becomes short, and quit altogether. And if people move into
co-housing out of financial necessity, they will also find the human
companionship they missed in their private living spaces that will go
a long ways twards meeting emotional needs without drugs.
I’m wondering will people be more driven by neglect in childhood.
Maybe there will be more addictions, more mental problems and an
increase in psychopaths.
“Original Sin” is a *Christian* idea. It comes out of the Levantine myth
that says that sex is evil as a way of disempowering women. And that in
turn comes out of the scripture which was designed to pander to the
instincts of alpha males and justify what they do. Thus today, what we
read Joshua did to the Canaanites and Philistines we now call genocide,
which Jehovah was setup to justify to provide the “Promised Land”.
I agree that might be a way of disempowering women but I also think
that the males in power are acting out their own pain,of birth or
childhood, as a revenge for the suffering caused by the mother.
and at the base of it all is the fact that alpha males lack intuition in
understanding others and what they do. The alpha males definately do
*NOT* “feel your pain”. That would interfere with their ability on the
line of battle to defend the resources of the tribe from other alphas.
Alphas need faster reflexes that compassion would slow down. It is this
that is the original sin. Lacking insight into why others do as they do,
the alphas rely on force, most especially to control access to the women
for the sake of more sons like themselves… which they hope’ll be their
allies. But in fact, often as not, turn against their fathers seeking to
control as their fathers did.
I don’t buy the alpha male thing. If it were true all the leaders
would be that tall well build and good looking, perfect specimins.
This is not the case.  Hitler was a small man driven to take out his
own pain and insecurities on those around him.
LSD and the other entheogens often provide even alpha males the insight
to understand relationships as well as show to them that the divine is
*NOT* Jehovah or Jesus, much less Allah, and thus remove justifications
for instinctive alpha male behavior.
Trepaning, scarification, tattoo, and other forms of apparently very
painful rituals have been used to prove the resistance to pain that an
alpha needs on the line of battle. The more horrific, the better. Jews
began circumcision for the same reason.
I’m not sure. I don’t know that much about these rituals and their
uses.Who knows why they need to do battle in the first place.
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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fwd: test
Date: November 16, 2005 at 2:41:05 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: test
Date: November 16, 2005 at 1:50:18 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
test
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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] OT Tinkk where are youuuuu???
Date: November 16, 2005 at 2:03:37 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sniff, that just reminded me of Tinkerbell!!!! Damn woman, where is she? I
miss our space reports from her!! Lol
Tink get back here this instant!!
Kirk lol
—–Original Message—–
From: Kirk [mailto:captkirk@clear.net.nz]
Sent: Thursday, 17 November 2005 8:02 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] FW: Big Sunspot
—–Original Message—–
From: SpaceWeather.com [mailto:swlist@spaceweather.com]
Sent: Thursday, 17 November 2005 4:05 a.m.
To: SpaceWeather.com
Subject: Big Sunspot
Space Weather News for Nov. 16, 2005
http://spaceweather.com
BIG SUNSPOT:  An impressive sunspot, “NOAA 822,” has appeared on the
Earth-facing side of the sun.  Measured from end to end, it is wider than
Jupiter, and it is crackling with M-class (medium-sized) solar flares.   So
far none of the explosions has hurled a coronal mass ejection toward Earth.
Geomagnetic storms and auroras are possible, however, if this ‘spot
unleashes a major flare in the days ahead.
TAURID FIREBALLS:  The Taurid meteor shower, which peaked in early November
and should be subsiding, continues to produce fireballs, according to
reports submitted to the American Meteor Society.  If you’re outside at
night this week, keep an eye on the sky for bright meteors.
Visit http://spaceweather.com for more information and updates.
Would you like a call when geomagnetic storms erupt?  Try Space Weather
PHONE: http://spaceweatherphone.com
You are currently subscribed to spaceweather as: captkirk@clear.net.nz.
To unsubscribe click here:
http://www.spaceweather2.com/u?id=769303J&n=T&l=spaceweather
or send a blank email to leave-spaceweather-769303J@www.spaceweather2.com
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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] FW: Big Sunspot
Date: November 16, 2005 at 2:01:37 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
—–Original Message—–
From: SpaceWeather.com [mailto:swlist@spaceweather.com]
Sent: Thursday, 17 November 2005 4:05 a.m.
To: SpaceWeather.com
Subject: Big Sunspot
Space Weather News for Nov. 16, 2005
http://spaceweather.com
BIG SUNSPOT:  An impressive sunspot, “NOAA 822,” has appeared on the
Earth-facing side of the sun.  Measured from end to end, it is wider than
Jupiter, and it is crackling with M-class (medium-sized) solar flares.   So
far none of the explosions has hurled a coronal mass ejection toward Earth.
Geomagnetic storms and auroras are possible, however, if this ‘spot
unleashes a major flare in the days ahead.
TAURID FIREBALLS:  The Taurid meteor shower, which peaked in early November
and should be subsiding, continues to produce fireballs, according to
reports submitted to the American Meteor Society.  If you’re outside at
night this week, keep an eye on the sky for bright meteors.
Visit http://spaceweather.com for more information and updates.
Would you like a call when geomagnetic storms erupt?  Try Space Weather
PHONE: http://spaceweatherphone.com
You are currently subscribed to spaceweather as: captkirk@clear.net.nz.
To unsubscribe click here:
http://www.spaceweather2.com/u?id=769303J&n=T&l=spaceweather
or send a blank email to leave-spaceweather-769303J@www.spaceweather2.com
 /]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] test
Date: November 16, 2005 at 1:53:21 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I can see t hem!
Thank you for info, everybody…… I thnk I will be fine! Just the energy whacks on my aura are pretty weird, but not unbearable! Well, that’s what it feels like! And we’re having massive sun spot activity, that affects us too.
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com [mailto:CallieMimosa@aol.com] 
Sent: Thursday, 17 November 2005 7:50 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] test
test
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] test
Date: November 16, 2005 at 1:50:18 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
test
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Captn Kirk Check out Paroxetine
Date: November 16, 2005 at 1:49:49 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Paroxetine (Paxil, Seroxat, Deroxat)
Here is a little more info that might help.
From: Day Brown <daybrown@artelco.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ot) Trepanation??? vector wtf??? lol
Date: November 16, 2005 at 1:51:45 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Luke Christoffersen wrote:
I think it goes on in more subtle forms in everyday life.  Advertising
seems particularly full of things aimed at using peoples
vulnerabilities.  Even the psychology used in some work environments. You’re right that there’s a lot of more extreem abuses going on.  I
watched a program about the sex trade in eastern europe.  It showed
how they conned women into beliving they were going for normal jobs
and where just sold as slaves.  They seem to know how to pick out the
most vunerable people.
It occurs to me that the young women are either in denial, or simply
faking their naivete, so that if the family discovers, they can
say that they were tricked into prostitution. When I lived in New
Orleans, 30 years ago, before HIV, among my friends were a topless
dancer, a former Playboy bunny, and the 3 hookers who lived next
door. All of whom came across as rational, living without romantic
fantasy such as I see so much more of today in young women. Since I
was not family, or in authority, they had no need to justify what
they did, and I enjoyed their company.
I was wondering alot what it is to be emotionally and spiritually
healthy in this world.  Alot of the work environments are still so
production driven.  Everything needs to be done now.  Maybe we’ll see
an increase in psychotics if people are forced to work so much to make
ends meet.  I wonder what kind of effect it will have on childeren if
both parents have to work.
That’s got tradeoffs too; much of the income of workers has been spent
on recreational drugs, and as costs rise, some will, as you suggest,
become psychotic, but some will feel the pain of addiction as their
supply becomes short, and quit altogether. And if people move into
co-housing out of financial necessity, they will also find the human
companionship they missed in their private living spaces that will go
a long ways twards meeting emotional needs without drugs.
Stan Grofs book mentions original sin as being related to the birth
trauma.  Apparently some patients reliving birth in lsd sessions made
a connection to this trauma and original sin.  I was wondering if the
trepaning had any relation to birth trauma.  I could imagine someone
getting the idea of drilling a little hole in the hope to release the
pressure from the head.
“Original Sin” is a *Christian* idea. It comes out of the Levantine myth
that says that sex is evil as a way of disempowering women. And that in
turn comes out of the scripture which was designed to pander to the
instincts of alpha males and justify what they do. Thus today, what we
read Joshua did to the Canaanites and Philistines we now call genocide,
which Jehovah was setup to justify to provide the “Promised Land”.
and at the base of it all is the fact that alpha males lack intuition in
understanding others and what they do. The alpha males definately do
*NOT* “feel your pain”. That would interfere with their ability on the
line of battle to defend the resources of the tribe from other alphas.
Alphas need faster reflexes that compassion would slow down. It is this
that is the original sin. Lacking insight into why others do as they do,
the alphas rely on force, most especially to control access to the women
for the sake of more sons like themselves… which they hope’ll be their
allies. But in fact, often as not, turn against their fathers seeking to
control as their fathers did.
LSD and the other entheogens often provide even alpha males the insight
to understand relationships as well as show to them that the divine is
*NOT* Jehovah or Jesus, much less Allah, and thus remove justifications
for instinctive alpha male behavior.
Trepaning, scarification, tattoo, and other forms of apparently very
painful rituals have been used to prove the resistance to pain that an
alpha needs on the line of battle. The more horrific, the better. Jews
began circumcision for the same reason.
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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] raising funds for Dora Weiner foundation
Date: November 16, 2005 at 12:37:36 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hey yeh man I;m in. when I can… can I send nz dollars?  Heh thanks
From: Eye of the Bhogi [mailto:freedomroot@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, 17 November 2005 5:03 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] raising funds for Dora Weiner foundation
Although Jeff and I can’t really give as much to the project as we are indebted to it, my response to Howard’s appeal were more about thinking creatively as to who we know who might be willing to donate.  How many folks are on this list?  If there are 2000 with US$10 to spare, that’s 20K right there for setting sail.  Support addiction interruption and Lotsof!
Dora Weiner Foundation 
P.O. Box 10032 
Staten Island, NY 10301-0032 
USA
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: Preston: & Insomnia Post Ibogaine
Date: November 16, 2005 at 12:33:33 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In a message dated 11/15/05 9:16:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, Edfriedrichs@aol.com writes:
“psychospiritual sessions” and “coke treatment:”  not sure what those amount to.  Explain…….   But it’s fine to question whether post-treatment insomnia is peculiar to Ibogaine Rx.  Dr. Ed
Ed, I think what is meant here is doing a treatment for spiritual purpose and cocaine not being an opiate but still being treatable with Ibogaine, people sleep a little easier after the session.          Randy
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] now G. Hancock and Supernatural review/was preston-insomnia
Date: November 16, 2005 at 11:49:55 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In a message dated 11/16/2005 12:27:38 AM Central Standard Time, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:
Even in pretty steady
withdrawals- but fairly minor compared to some experiences (I am still
taking a small amount of opiates, so it’s not like I’m cold turkeying
completely, just very, very drastically reducing my intake)-
Preston, I am so impressed that you are doing this and amazed that you can take just a small amount of opiates while you are feeling like crap! I would never be able to do that! If I felt bad I would eat them all. You hang in there though….I am THRILLED that you are pulling this self-detox off (saying that with fingers crossed!).
Sending positive vibes your way!
Callie
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Young, Assured and Playing Pharmacist to Friends
Date: November 16, 2005 at 11:05:00 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
HI all,
  One needs a free NYTimes registration to read the whole thing, but if you are too paranoid to do that, here’s an excerpt. (And you are too paranoid if you don’t bother registering with this or that website that asks for such registration to access their sites, I personally believe, whether or not Big Brother OR the newspaper itself is using the info to “spy” or target you for advertising, etc.
;-))
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/16/health/16patient.html?
Young, Assured and Playing Pharmacist to Friends
By AMY HARMON
Published: November 16, 2005
Nathan Tylutki arrived late in New York, tired but eager to go out dancing. When his friend Katherine K. offered him the Ritalin she had inherited from someone who had stopped taking his prescription, he popped two pills and stayed out all night.
For the two college friends, now 25 and out in the working world, there was nothing remarkable about the transaction. A few weeks later, Katherine gave the tranquilizer Ativan to another friend who complained of feeling short of breath and panicky.
“Clear-cut anxiety disorder,” Katherine decreed.
The Ativan came from a former colleague who had traded it to her for the Vicodin that Katherine’s boyfriend had been prescribed by a dentist. The boyfriend did not mind, but he preferred that she not give away the Ambien she got from a doctor by exaggerating her sleeping problems. It helps him relax after a stressful day.
“I acquire quite a few medications and then dispense them to my friends as needed. I usually know what I’m talking about,” said Katherine, who lives in Manhattan and who, like many other people interviewed for this article, did not want her last name used because of concerns that her behavior could get her in trouble with her employer, law enforcement authorities or at least her parents.
For a sizable group of people in their 20’s and 30’s, deciding on their own what drugs to take – in particular, stimulants, antidepressants and other psychiatric medications – is becoming the norm. Confident of their abilities and often skeptical of psychiatrists’ expertise, they choose to rely on their own research and each other’s experience in treating problems like depression, fatigue, anxiety or a lack of concentration. A medical degree, in their view, is useful, but not essential, and certainly not sufficient.
They trade unused prescription drugs, get medications without prescriptions from the Internet and, in some cases, lie to doctors to obtain medications that in their judgment they need.
A spokeswoman for the Drug Enforcement Administration says it is illegal to give prescription medication to another person, although it is questionable whether the offense would be prosecuted.
The behavior, drug abuse prevention experts say, is notably different from the use of drugs like marijuana or cocaine, or even the abuse of prescription painkillers, which is also on the rise. The goal for many young adults is not to get high but to feel better – less depressed, less stressed out, more focused, better rested. It is just that the easiest route to that end often seems to be medication for which they do not have a prescription.
snip-
Peace and love,
Preston Peet
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Coming off anti-depressants
Date: November 16, 2005 at 11:33:11 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
As said previously, it depends on what you were on and how long you have taken it. Some antidepressants build a level in your body so to speak, before they are effective. I don’t know but seems to me that it might take a while for them to totally clear your system.
What were you taking and for how long? I will try to find answer for you if I could have that ifo.
Callie
From: Eye of the Bhogi <freedomroot@gmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] raising funds for Dora Weiner foundation
Date: November 16, 2005 at 11:03:17 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Although Jeff and I can’t really give as much to the project as we are indebted to it, my response to Howard’s appeal were more about thinking creatively as to who we know who might be willing to donate.  How many folks are on this list?  If there are 2000 with US$10 to spare, that’s 20K right there for setting sail.  Support addiction interruption and Lotsof!
Dora Weiner Foundation 
P.O. Box 10032 
Staten Island, NY 10301-0032 
USA
From: Day Brown <daybrown@artelco.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Orthodoxy vs Gnosis…
Date: November 15, 2005 at 2:12:01 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com, maps forum <maps_forum@maps.org>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Is discussed in “The Alphabet versus the Goddess” by Leonard Shlain.
Christianity arose in the same era when literacy broke out of the
constraints of arcane scribes and into the public. Previously, religion
had been based on mystical emotional experience, the right brain, and
now was became based on the linear thinking of the left brain reading
linear text like on this screen.
Political organization found orthodoxy useful. Nietzsche, in “the Birth
of Tragedy” notes that whereas the Levantine religions were based on
works of literature claiming literal truth, Dionysianism [typical of the
Native European mystery religions] was based on works of theater
claiming allegorical truth. Political systems like literal truth. Its
what lawyers are all about.
And the problem with entheogenic potions like LSD, mescaline, ibogaine,
pscilocybin, peyote, Amanita Muscaria, et al, is that they provide the
kind of direct experience of the divine claimed by the early Gnostics.
And were mostly suppressed by the Orthoxy of Rome and Washington DC for
the same reason: it disempowered the hierarchy, making the divine more
available without the services of clergy, bishops, popes, etc.
The early Christian emperors, from Constantine to Justinian, performed a
very successful repression of mysticism and Gnosticism, which as Shlain
notes, is why the Nag Hammadi Gnostic texts were buried in the first
place. But that was only possible in a milieu where the creation of text
was very limited; that time honored system of control is breaking down.
Without getting into the validity of altered states of consciousness, it
is clear to everyone that the effect is often profound, life changing,
and as a result, often leads to the abandonment of traditional religious
belief and ‘family values’.  Which is why LSD was made illegal. There’s
no objective evidence that LSD is addictive like the opiates, much less
tobacco or alcohol. LSD has no fatal overdose level. LSD does not make a
user insane, it only makes it obvious if the user already is insane, and
indeed there’re early studies on its therapeutic use. The *only* reason
LSD and the other entheogens were made illegal, was that they changed
the religious beliefs of the users.
The government of the US is obviously Christian, and hadda do something.
For the same reason that Rome & Constantinople did, and for the same
reason that the Jihadim are now committing acts of terrorism. In every
case, what we see is a group of alpha males trying to concentrate power and control the flow of information. It was easier for the Chinese and
Egyptians, with thousands of icons that needed to be memorized, to limit
literacy to just the intellectual elites. It got harder with the switch
to alphabets of a few dozen symbols such that, for example, every Jew
was expected to learn to read the Torah.
But the only copy of the Torah was in the synagogue, the only copy of
the Bible in the church, the only copy of the Koran, in the mosque. The
alpha male power system had more control. The Nazis and Communists tried
to control text back in the era when printing presses weighed tons and
cost a thousand times what the HP sitting on my desk does. Back in 1998,
I myself used my printer to run off a couple hundred copies of a damning
report, and thereby made a local sheriff withdraw from re-election. I’m
sure this kind of thing is going on all over the world now.
So- when someone wants to fund a study of an entheogen, and gets nothing
but obstruction from the political system, it mite be wise to retain a
copy of that, and warn those in positions to obstruct, that we have the
record of what they have done. It will not fall thru the cracks like so
many liberating efforts of the past have. The computer will not forget.
And in fact, we have the power now to let everyone know, the friends and
family of the decision makers, what they have done… which will follow
them for the years ahead.
Orthodoxy began at the Council of Nicea, deciding what works would be in
the canon, and now that we have the Nag Hammadi, we can see some of the
works which were excluded, and we can see how they comport better with
the character of Jesus, but were not so useful in the consolidation of
Earthly power by alpha males. That consolidation is coming apart. While
the entheogenic experience, however, provides insight, illumination and
inspiration about the relationship between the spirit and the divine, it
does not provide the zealot with the justification of his means.
In contrast to the conviction alpha male zealots, the enlightened end up
with a sense of the ambiguity of the world of politics, economics, and
social sciences. There is no action which does not have unforseen and
unintended consequences which the zealots ignore, but which enlightened
spirits tend to perceive. Hence the Vedic mantra about “non-action”.
But we are where we are, and more entheogens are being discovered in the
ecosystems of shamen all the time, and the draconian efforts of the ‘War
on Drugs’ is reaching its end phase before it disintegrates entirely. It
is just too easy in a modern mobile world to move drugs, and chemical
techniques are evolving to manufacture them- such that, as we see with
methamphetamines, results in more harm than if they’re legal. Moreover,
the biochemistry of addiction is becoming understood, and with that the
realization that draconian imprisonment is both expensive and useless.
But Orthodoxy has always been slow to adapt to reality. That failure led
to the collapse of the Roman empire, and may lead to collapse of the New
World Order of Transnationals. While Gnosis today does not have nearly
the conviction of fundamentalist orthodoxies, its plain that non-action
in no longer such a good idea. Too many species will go extinct without
more direct *action*. The world’s no longer in the same kind of pristine
state that the Bhoddisatvah can merely sit without at least shedding some tears for the sorry state it is now in after thousands of years of
Orthodoxy in charge.
Its ironic that I lay this out in the same linear fashion Orthodoxy has
always used, with right brain logic, just plain old ASCII.TXT; but we
are where we are, and use the tools at hand. One of which is to warn the
Orthodox powers that they have lost control, and to not get in the way
of the changes. Furthermore, if they wish to avoid the violence that’ll
lead to them being dragged out to be shot, they’d do well to advance the
agendas of Gnostics who never went for that kind of thing.
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] now G. Hancock and Supernatural review/was preston-insomnia
Date: November 16, 2005 at 1:26:33 AM EST
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>, <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Re: [Ibogaine] Re: Preston: & Insomnia Post Ibogaine(HI all- I feel like I need to point out that I’m posting this to the DrugWar list too, due to the second part of this message from me, containing some comments and a review about Graham Hancock’s new book and his being in my apartment tomorrow evening hanging out talking about stuff)
I wrote I “slept” during my ibogaine session(s) but simultaneously, I didn’t sleep continously, but when I did it was very heavily. When not sleeping I was on the Holodeck experiencing all sorts of things and seeing all sorts of things face to face, smelling, feeling, tasting, touching and hearing it all, being very very blown away by it all, or opening my eyes to watch all that liquid metal dripping and glowing and flowing everywhere from everything, and not recognizing people, like V when she walked in to check on me at one point (this particular incident was during my first, most intense session of them all), and I kept asking her, “who are you, I can’t see you,” and I couldn’t, I could only make out this glowing beautiful but indistinct woman standing there, literally looking like what I’d imagine an angel to look like were I ever to see one, that it wouldn’t necessarily be in focus to me, that it would be a bit hazy due to it’s brilliance or whatnot. (I only speculate and don’t really expect to run into any genuine Omnipotent God-sent angels any time soon, or later.) But my sleep was much heavier the last time I did a dose of a size where we felt it a good idea to have someone there being a sitter when V was not home, with the sitter telling me he had to come close and check to be sure I was even breathing I was so still- and the visuals were less intense that time, and I regret that as I think the visions are a big part of the learning process from taking ibogaine, at least for me anyway.
  Just my thoughts.
BTW, Graham Hancock is going to be sitting in my apartment tomorrow night, hanging out and chatting about this and that and the other, perhaps even doing an interview if I can get my recorder to work. Regardless, one of my inspirations and favorite ancient civilizations speculators and writers is going to be hanging out in my home on a friendly, casual basis. I am so thrilled I can barely sit still and almost can’t bel;ieve it’s really going to happen, that I’m not only going to meet him I’m having him over for a cup of coffee and and evening of talk and stuff. Even in pretty steady withdrawals- but fairly minor compared to some experiences (I am still taking a small amount of opiates, so it’s not like I’m cold turkeying completely, just very, very drastically reducing my intake)- I am so looking forward to hanging out and talking to him no matter how uncomfortable I feel physically.
  Below you’ll find the review I turned in recently to High Times about his latest book, “Supernatural: Meetings With the Ancient Teachers of Mankind.” HT doesn’t allow much space for reviews, hence it being so short, and I really have no idea if this is the version that will eventually be printed. But I do ask that you do NOT pass this on to other lists besides those I’ve already posted it on, the ibogaine and the DrugWar.com lists. Thanks kindly for your cooperation- at least until it’s been printed by HT please. Thanks again.
Peace and love,
Preston
—–
Supernatural: Meetings with the Ancient Teachers of Mankind
A review by Preston Peet
          In “Supernatural: Meetings with the Ancient Teachers of Mankind,” (Century, 2005) controversial, best selling author Graham Hancock takes a hands-on exploration of some of the more potent plant hallucinogens. His theory is that the human beings who first began painting the gorgeous, enigmatic cave paintings, practiced religion, and learned the thousands of secrets of the plant world around them were really, genuinely taught by the “beings,” whatever they may actually be, encountered during the voyages while under the influence of such extremely “hallucinogenic” substances as ibogaine, ayahuasca, mushrooms, DMT and more.
While this idea is not new, that sacred plant substances were the catalyst for gnosis and creativity in human beings in the far back mists of pre-history, Hancock succinctly wraps up the various theories already postulated and expounds upon them. He is astounded that many if not most of the scientists who profess to be professionals in the field have never actually tried any of these substances first-hand, so whether they are supportive of the idea or against such ideas, they for the most part really haven’t any experience with these substances, so can’t tell us what they themselves have experienced under the influence. So Hancock is genuinely curious as to how can they profess to tell us what others are experiencing, or not, while under the influence, and whether their vision are “real” or not?
“In Britain my sense is the majority of people probably don’t want to think about this kind of material at all – especially since it involves the taboo subject of drugs,” Hancock says. “But the US is different. Although there are deeply reactionary tendencies in the US there is also the other half of America which goes its own way and thinks its own thoughts and feels strongly about individual freedom.”
He recaps many others’ theories and ideas over the years, such as Professor Rick Strassman’s experiments with DMT at the University of New Mexico a few years ago, the experiments that resulted in Strassman’s own brilliant book “DMT- The Spirit Molecule,” the one man who got legal permission to test DMT in the US in the last 20 years. But despite this one legalized experimentation, Hancock sees how wrong, and how much cut off we are becoming by the current evil War on Some Drugs and Users, and how much of our heritage we have lost and are still loosing today through our insane anti-drug laws.
“Yes I completely agree with you about the sinister Orwellian evil of the War
on Drugs,” Hancock tells me. “It is a madness that has seized our societies. The more I see these kinds of maneuverings going on, the more I realize how deeply public opinion is manipulated and how the very use of language (Orwell again!) is designed to shape our perceptions of drugs, the more depressed, frustrated and unhappy I feel. By language I mean, for example, the constant coupling of the words drug and abuse. By getting into the linguistic structures of the brain, such “ab”use of language actually stops large numbers of people from ever thinking rationally about the subject at
all.
“We are sleep-walking into the abyss of ‘consciousness crimes’.”
This is one of the best books I’ve read this year, very deep, incredibly interesting, and quite the educational yet entertaining voyage through the years, from 50,000 years ago and perhaps longer, right up to today. I highly recommend this book to anyone at all interested in what launched human beings on the path of “intelligence” all those many years ago.
—–
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —– From: Matthew Shriver
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 6:29 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re: Preston: & Insomnia Post Ibogaine
Beatrice
You are the only other person who I have heard say that.  I also slept through most of my first session and most of the following day.  All of my later treatments resulted in much less need for sleep each night lasting for weeks, more like others have reported.  After reading Dr. Ed’s post I thought that maybe there was something to the whole healing mechanisms being activated idea.  I remember after sharing on the old ibogaine list that I had slept through the bulk of the experience someone had suggested that maybe ibogaine heals the body first and then the mind.  I know at the time I was not eating well or exercising so I was certainly in less then perfect physical condition.  But I had also always suspected that I may not have been up to the mental experience at that time either, and maybe I was spared the trip because I wasn’t ready for it.
Matt
From: Beatrice Blue [mailto:beatriceblue@cox.net]
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 1:31 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: Preston: & Insomnia Post Ibogaine
Mark,
I’ve been told and read that opiate addicts use their drug so often to fall asleep, so after Ibogaine it takes our bodies awhile to learn how to sleep on it’s own again.  It actually makes a lot of sense to me.  Plus, we have a bunch of sleep time backed up.  Although the first time I did Ibo successfully, I not only slept through most of the session, I was asleep the day after and had no problems sleeping.  A Greek friend of mine could not believe it.  Then the next time I did it, I had the sleeping problems and used Ambien sparingly.  They said I was talking to people that weren’t even there on the Ambien though.  My friend would come in and ask if I was ok, and if I knew who they were, and I’d say, ‘Of course!!!  You’re so and so!” Then I turn back to the bed and continue my conversation with my family who weren’t there.  As far as I knew, I was sleeping right through.  Sleep is a strange thing.
My two cents…
Beatrice
On 11/15/05 10:49 AM, “Mark Corcoran” <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com> wrote:
Hey Eeveryone.
Preston, I’ve been keepin up to date on everything with you and hope you are well. I asked our friend to get in touch with you. Hopefully you guys spoke. Feel free to call me anytime bro.I’m gonna try and make it up to your release party after the show. What time do you expect it to go till?
I wanted to make a quick point or rather ask you all a question about insomnia after Ibogaine.
I found that when I did my first session for methadone and heroin that it took more than a month to sleep through the night, but when I did my last session a little over 8 months ago for a straight dope I was able to sleep within a few nights. I’ve also seen people do psycho-spiritual sessions sleep the following day, and for coke treatments I’ve been told its the same.
So my question is do you guys think that insomnia might be the one withdrawal symptom that Ibogaine doesn’t take care of and not a side effect of the Ibogaine?
If this has been covered recently, my apologies, I don’t get a chance to go though most of the posts but I thought it might be worth bringing up.
-M.
From:  “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] Re: Preston:
Date:  Mon, 14 Nov 2005 20:58:16 -0500
I could do without having the cops follow us back in after a smoke
break though.<
LOL, I’d forgotten all about that! That was hilarious!
;-))
Thanks for the smile Randy, I can ALWAYS use another smile.
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
—– Original Message —– From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 4:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: Preston:
In a message dated 11/14/05 3:10:46 PM Eastern Standard Time,
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:
it’s in me, not the ibogaine where I
need to find that change anyway.
You can do this my friend. I wish I was closer to NYC, I’d come to
Alex Gray’s and see ya. I could do without having the cops follow us
back in after a smoke break though. You deserve to be happy,
whatever it takes. Love and hashish    Randy
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Quote from the ‘Power of Now’ sums up my recent  situation
Date: November 16, 2005 at 12:47:19 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Alma, I had such an attraction once, although fortunately I was not
married and no one was hurt as you are. Eventually I came to wish
that it had remained ath the level of friendship. I will pray for
you and your husband.
On Tue, 08 Nov 2005 19:27:49 -0800 gardenrestaurant@comcast.net
wrote:
Hi Callie,
your email made me feel not so lonely anymore .The man I was
talking about is my husband of 30 years, when I was in Europe this
summer he had an affair with a waitress of 19 years old, and now
he is ready to join her in Russia and he think that is really the
more natural think to do, I have to wait for him( if he is coming
back, he is not even sure himself.)  he is calling this girl one
hour or more every day .I hope he try to understand the pain that
I feel but he think is again the more natural comportment in the
world.Like I said before the pain come in waves sometime I feel
good but after he start to talk about her again  the pain hit me
like a bullet.I hope this too should pass, thanks again and God
bless you
Alma
————– Original message ————–
Alma, I am not Brenda but I hope you don’t mind me putting my 2
cents worth in.
If I understand you correctly the man you have been in a
relationship with for many years is leaving or wants to leave you
for another. Correct?
This happened to me and I was DEVASTATED!!! I really felt like I
could not go on without this man and above all that I thought he
left me because I was not doing something right or I was not
pretty enough. These feelings made the fact of him leaving even
worse.
I cried and begged him, stayed fucked up out of my head, stalked
him and his new girlfriend and none of it made me feel better!
Well, time did take care of the hurt but I grieved losing him for
about an entire year or maybe more.
Gradually I began to listen to others and listen to my common
sense. I had been addicted to that man as much as you can be
addicted to anything. I began to realize this and also realized
that I had done nothing wrong. The relationship was destined to a
painful ending because I catered to and loved this man too much! I
loved him more than I loved myself! I did not have the power to
make him love me. He couldn’t love a servant, a person (me) who
molded my entire life around him. I think if I did anything wrong
it was I smothered him to death.
I know now that healthy love does not try to control. A healthy
love lets you be yourself, does not demand from you, if someone
loves you they want you to have a life separate from your
relationship. Two people who love each other should love each
other side by side….not with one on pedestal and the other doing
all the giving.
It really hurt me that he left for another woman too. An older,
(very much older)! not too pretty woman. I thought that I must be
less desirable than she but that was wrong too!
Hang in there! Stay tough and remember this too shall pass.
Callie
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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: Preston: & Insomnia Post Ibogaine
Date: November 16, 2005 at 12:32:07 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 18:09:40 -0800 Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
wrote:
Once again, I will reiterate my disappointment in the list.
uh oh
We are
underground, hidden in a vast multitude of solely opinionated
discussion groups whose sole purpose SEEMS to be recruiting for
$10,000 weekends to acquire $500 worth of product.
For someone with flashes of brilliance, you sometimes are amazingly
dense.
My hat is off to
Dr. Lotsof et al, and I fully understand this project requires
IMMENSE funding, so be it. I just can’t play, and don’t appreciate
the facade.
That’s why I originally thought you and Ron might hit it off..
If Ibo was as prevalent in the US as say, Heroin, then,
wouldn’t heroin not be prevalent? I bet I could get better results
buying heroin on the internet than I have gotten trying to buy
Ibo.
Belay and downplay the very existence of this wonderful tool into
psychobabble and delve deep into associated sleep disorders,
charms,
crystals, dancing, music, and anything else designed to keep any
American or Brazilian from healing.
This is what ibogaine does to people, love it or leave it 🙂
Wow, funny, but by bringing this back on trak, I feel like the
outsider here.
Time to begin again..
I’ll shut up now…….
Matthew Shriver wrote:           Re: [Ibogaine] Re: Preston: &
Insomnia Post Ibogaine
Beatrice
You are the only other person who I have heard say that.  I also
slept through most of my first session and most of the following
day.
All of my later treatments resulted in much less need for sleep
each
night lasting for weeks, more like others have reported.  After
reading Dr. Ed’s post I thought that maybe there was something to
the
whole healing mechanisms being activated idea.  I remember after
sharing on the old ibogaine list that I had slept through the bulk
of
the experience someone had suggested that maybe ibogaine heals the
body first and then the mind.  I know at the time I was not eating
well or exercising so I was certainly in less then perfect
physical
condition.  But I had also always suspected that I may not have
been
up to the mental experience at that time either, and maybe I was
spared the trip because I wasn’t ready for it.
Matt
————————-
FROM: Beatrice Blue [mailto:beatriceblue@cox.net]
 SENT: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 1:31 PM
 TO: ibogaine@mindvox.com
 SUBJECT: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: Preston: & Insomnia Post Ibogaine
Mark,
I’ve been told and read that opiate addicts use their drug so
often
to fall asleep, so after Ibogaine it takes our bodies awhile to
learn
how to sleep on it’s own again.  It actually makes a lot of sense
to
me.  Plus, we have a bunch of sleep time backed up.  Although the
first time I did Ibo successfully, I not only slept through most
of
the session, I was asleep the day after and had no problems
sleeping.
A Greek friend of mine could not believe it.  Then the next time
I
did it, I had the sleeping problems and used Ambien sparingly.
They
said I was talking to people that weren’t even there on the Ambien
though.  My friend would come in and ask if I was ok, and if I
knew
who they were, and I’d say, &#8216;Of course!!!  You’re so and
so!”
Then I turn back to the bed and continue my conversation with my
family who weren’t there.  As far as I knew, I was sleeping right
through.  Sleep is a strange thing.
My two cents…
Beatrice
On 11/15/05 10:49 AM, “Mark Corcoran”  wrote:
Hey Eeveryone.
 Preston, I’ve been keepin up to date on everything with you and
hope you are well. I asked our friend to get in touch with you.
Hopefully you guys spoke. Feel free to call me anytime bro.I’m
gonna
try and make it up to your release party after the show. What time
do
you expect it to go till?
I wanted to make a quick point or rather ask you all a question
about insomnia after Ibogaine.
I found that when I did my first session for methadone and heroin
that it took more than a month to sleep through the night, but
when I
did my last session a little over 8 months ago for a straight dope
I
was able to sleep within a few nights. I’ve also seen people do
psycho-spiritual sessions sleep the following day, and for coke
treatments I’ve been told its the same.
So my question is do you guys think that insomnia might be the
one
withdrawal symptom that Ibogaine doesn’t take care of and not a
side
effect of the Ibogaine?
If this has been covered recently, my apologies, I don’t get a
chance to go though most of the posts but I thought it might be
worth
bringing up.
-M.
————————-
From:  “Preston Peet”
 Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
 To:
 Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] Re:   Preston:
 Date:  Mon, 14 Nov 2005 20:58:16 -0500
I could do without having the cops follow us back in after a
smoke
break though.<
LOL, I’d forgotten all about that! That was hilarious!
;-))
Thanks for the smile Randy, I can ALWAYS use another smile.
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment
is
often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
—– Original Message —– From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 4:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: Preston:
In a message dated 11/14/05 3:10:46 PM Eastern Standard Time,
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:
it’s in me, not the ibogaine where I
need to find that change anyway.
You can do this my friend. I wish I was closer to NYC, I’d come
to
Alex Gray’s and see ya. I could do without having the cops
follow
us
back in after a smoke break though. You deserve to be happy,
whatever it takes. Love and hashish    Randy
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From: Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Sorry
Date: November 15, 2005 at 9:11:04 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Was kinda wonderin’
BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:
Sorry I ment to send that to Marc off list.       Randy
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From: Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: Preston: & Insomnia Post Ibogaine
Date: November 15, 2005 at 9:09:40 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
My two cents:
Opiates, alcohol, any depressant, the body fights by producing a speed substitute. I pee orange and vibrate up the wall after a binge, just like when I was doing crank. This may be just me, but I think it is my body fighting back. Of course I can’t sleep worth a crap when this happens, get the “Jerks” bad, body producing WILD electro-muscular discharges to keep sleep from happening just as it IS, all in an attempt to fight off the Death that might occur if the defenses were not there. My wife stopped sleeping with me years ago, kicked her once too many times! So now I sleep alone. (Feeling the ONENESS with Kirk, LOL!)
I am always amazed by this, I’m sure this has kept me alive when my BAC has exceeded 4.0 . WHATEVER made us allowed tolerance for self-abuse, and ALSO created a way to take it away. Now, if I could just get my anus to spew $100 bills, I could take care of that.
Once again, I will reiterate my disappointment in the list. We are underground, hidden in a vast multitude of solely opinionated discussion groups whose sole purpose SEEMS to be recruiting for $10,000 weekends to acquire $500 worth of product. My hat is off to Dr. Lotsof et al, and I fully understand this project requires IMMENSE funding, so be it. I just can’t play, and don’t appreciate the facade. If Ibo was as prevalent in the US as say, Heroin, then, wouldn’t heroin not be prevalent? I bet I could get better results buying heroin on the internet than I have gotten trying to buy Ibo. Belay and downplay the very existence of this wonderful tool into psychobabble and delve deep into associated sleep disorders, charms, crystals, dancing, music, and anything else designed to keep any American or Brazilian from healing.
Wow, funny, but by bringing this back on trak, I feel like the outsider here.
I’ll shut up now…….
Matthew Shriver wrote:
Beatrice
You are the only other person who I have heard say that.  I also slept through most of my first session and most of the following day.  All of my later treatments resulted in much less need for sleep each night lasting for weeks, more like others have reported.  After reading Dr. Ed’s post I thought that maybe there was something to the whole healing mechanisms being activated idea.  I remember after sharing on the old ibogaine list that I had slept through the bulk of the experience someone had suggested that maybe ibogaine heals the body first and then the mind.  I know at the time I was not eating well or exercising so I was certainly in less then perfect physical condition.  But I had also always suspected that I may not have been up to the mental experience at that time either, and maybe I was spared the trip because I wasn’t ready for it.
Matt
From: Beatrice Blue [mailto:beatriceblue@cox.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 1:31 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: Preston: & Insomnia Post Ibogaine
Mark,

I’ve been told and read that opiate addicts use their drug so often to fall asleep, so after Ibogaine it takes our bodies awhile to learn how to sleep on it’s own again.  It actually makes a lot of sense to me.  Plus, we have a bunch of sleep time backed up.  Although the first time I did Ibo successfully, I not only slept through most of the session, I was asleep the day after and had no problems sleeping.  A Greek friend of mine could not believe it.  Then the next time I did it, I had the sleeping problems and used Ambien sparingly.  They said I was talking to people that weren’t even there on the Ambien though.  My friend would come in and ask if I was ok, and if I knew who they were, and I’d say, ‘Of course!!!  You’re so and so!”  Then I turn back to the bed and continue my conversation with my family who weren’t there.  As far as I knew, I was sleeping right through.  Sleep is a strange thing.

My two cents…
Beatrice


On 11/15/05 10:49 AM, “Mark Corcoran” <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com> wrote:


Hey Eeveryone.

Preston, I’ve been keepin up to date on everything with you and hope you are well. I asked our friend to get in touch with you. Hopefully you guys spoke. Feel free to call me anytime bro.I’m gonna try and make it up to your release party after the show. What time do you expect it to go till? 

I wanted to make a quick point or rather ask you all a question about insomnia after Ibogaine. 

I found that when I did my first session for methadone and heroin that it took more than a month to sleep through the night, but when I did my last session a little over 8 months ago for a straight dope I was able to sleep within a few nights. I’ve also seen people do psycho-spiritual sessions sleep the following day, and for coke treatments I’ve been told its the same. 

So my question is do you guys think that insomnia might be the one withdrawal symptom that Ibogaine doesn’t take care of and not a side effect of the Ibogaine?  

If this has been covered recently, my apologies, I don’t get a chance to go though most of the posts but I thought it might be worth bringing up. 

-M.
From:  “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] Re: Preston:
Date:  Mon, 14 Nov 2005 20:58:16 -0500
>>I could do without having the cops follow us back in after a smoke 
>>break though.<
>
>LOL, I’d forgotten all about that! That was hilarious!
>;-))
>Thanks for the smile Randy, I can ALWAYS use another smile.
>
>
>Peace and love,
>Preston
>
>”Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is 
>often mistaken for madness”
>Richard Davenport-Hines
>
>
>
>—– Original Message —– From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 4:03 PM
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: Preston:
>
>
>In a message dated 11/14/05 3:10:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
>ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:
>
>
>it’s in me, not the ibogaine where I
>need to find that change anyway.
>
>
>
>You can do this my friend. I wish I was closer to NYC, I’d come to 
>Alex Gray’s and see ya. I could do without having the cops follow us 
>back in after a smoke break though. You deserve to be happy, 
>whatever it takes. Love and hashish    Randy
>
>
>
>  
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
>[%] Ibogaine List Commands: 
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>  
>\]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>
Get MSN Messenger with FREE Video Conversation – the next best thing to being there! <http://g.msn.com/8HMAENUS/2755??PS=47575>   /]=———————————————————————=[\  [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]  \]=———————————————————————=[/
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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Sorry
Date: November 15, 2005 at 7:36:26 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sorry I ment to send that to Marc off list.       Randy
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Markus Maxmillius
Date: November 15, 2005 at 7:34:12 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Whudup my brutha? I’ll be back as soon as I can. Probably around the holidays sometime. I hate to admitt it, but I miss the city, although I don’t mind admitting that I miss you guys. Things are going pretty slow here for me. The job operating equipment won’t happen until later on, and my client looks like she is gonna chicken out. I’m not givin’ up though. I can find a job doing some painting or something tomorrow probably, maybe layin’ block or some other red neck thing to do. I just wish my boss would have told me I couldn’t start back on a dozer sooner. What the fuck, I aint starvin’ yet, and I know too many people to be unemployed for long. I’m first to be called in if something needs to get done with the construction company, but that might be March. I feel the urge to head west but I can’t. I need to be here. Something could change at any minute and the word about Ibogaine need to get out. Gatewood Galbreth is being so cool with me. He said he wants me to be around to help the cause. When he runs for govener in 2007 I’ll be on the bus helping. Watch. Send me your number to me and I’ll call. Mine is 814-746-0508. How are you doing? Did the cabbie pay you off yet? I hope you get everything cummin’ to ya. I’m gonna call D after 9 when my phone is free tonight. Get back in touch. I pretty much leave my computer on and look for messages all day when I get the chance. All night too when I’m here. I’m lookin’ to kill a deer this weekend.          Love and a gut pile Randy
From: “Matthew Shriver” <matt@itsupport.net>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re: Preston: & Insomnia Post Ibogaine
Date: November 15, 2005 at 6:29:40 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Beatrice
You are the only other person who I have heard say that.  I also slept through most of my first session and most of the following day.  All of my later treatments resulted in much less need for sleep each night lasting for weeks, more like others have reported.  After reading Dr. Ed’s post I thought that maybe there was something to the whole healing mechanisms being activated idea.  I remember after sharing on the old ibogaine list that I had slept through the bulk of the experience someone had suggested that maybe ibogaine heals the body first and then the mind.  I know at the time I was not eating well or exercising so I was certainly in less then perfect physical condition.  But I had also always suspected that I may not have been up to the mental experience at that time either, and maybe I was spared the trip because I wasn’t ready for it.
Matt
From: Beatrice Blue [mailto:beatriceblue@cox.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 1:31 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: Preston: & Insomnia Post Ibogaine
Mark,

I’ve been told and read that opiate addicts use their drug so often to fall asleep, so after Ibogaine it takes our bodies awhile to learn how to sleep on it’s own again.  It actually makes a lot of sense to me.  Plus, we have a bunch of sleep time backed up.  Although the first time I did Ibo successfully, I not only slept through most of the session, I was asleep the day after and had no problems sleeping.  A Greek friend of mine could not believe it.  Then the next time I did it, I had the sleeping problems and used Ambien sparingly.  They said I was talking to people that weren’t even there on the Ambien though.  My friend would come in and ask if I was ok, and if I knew who they were, and I’d say, ‘Of course!!!  You’re so and so!”  Then I turn back to the bed and continue my conversation with my family who weren’t there.  As far as I knew, I was sleeping right through.  Sleep is a strange thing.

My two cents…
Beatrice


On 11/15/05 10:49 AM, “Mark Corcoran” <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com> wrote:


Hey Eeveryone.

Preston, I’ve been keepin up to date on everything with you and hope you are well. I asked our friend to get in touch with you. Hopefully you guys spoke. Feel free to call me anytime bro.I’m gonna try and make it up to your release party after the show. What time do you expect it to go till? 

I wanted to make a quick point or rather ask you all a question about insomnia after Ibogaine. 

I found that when I did my first session for methadone and heroin that it took more than a month to sleep through the night, but when I did my last session a little over 8 months ago for a straight dope I was able to sleep within a few nights. I’ve also seen people do psycho-spiritual sessions sleep the following day, and for coke treatments I’ve been told its the same. 

So my question is do you guys think that insomnia might be the one withdrawal symptom that Ibogaine doesn’t take care of and not a side effect of the Ibogaine?  

If this has been covered recently, my apologies, I don’t get a chance to go though most of the posts but I thought it might be worth bringing up. 

-M.
From:  “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] Re: Preston:
Date:  Mon, 14 Nov 2005 20:58:16 -0500
>>I could do without having the cops follow us back in after a smoke 
>>break though.<
>
>LOL, I’d forgotten all about that! That was hilarious!
>;-))
>Thanks for the smile Randy, I can ALWAYS use another smile.
>
>
>Peace and love,
>Preston
>
>”Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is 
>often mistaken for madness”
>Richard Davenport-Hines
>
>
>
>—– Original Message —– From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 4:03 PM
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: Preston:
>
>
>In a message dated 11/14/05 3:10:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
>ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:
>
>
>it’s in me, not the ibogaine where I
>need to find that change anyway.
>
>
>
>You can do this my friend. I wish I was closer to NYC, I’d come to 
>Alex Gray’s and see ya. I could do without having the cops follow us 
>back in after a smoke break though. You deserve to be happy, 
>whatever it takes. Love and hashish    Randy
>
>
>
>  
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
>[%] Ibogaine List Commands: 
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>  
>\]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>
Get MSN Messenger with FREE Video Conversation – the next best thing to being there! <http://g.msn.com/8HMAENUS/2755??PS=47575>   /]=———————————————————————=[\  [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]  \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Coming off anti-depressants
Date: November 15, 2005 at 6:06:48 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Thank you Jon!!!
Yehh I was only on 20 mg’s to start with and only just for a year now. A
while back I forgot to take them for a couple of days and went back to
crying blithering idiot so just took half.. so have been on 10 mg for past
couple of months.  Bugger all really! It hardly seemed worth it! And since
last month I have more and more felt I don’t need it. And bless the
Universe, it created the situation for me to come off them! Yehhh you’re
right, I should be feeling much worse. It was Aropax, which is Paroxetine.
But it got me back on my feet, and I’ll always be grateful for that. Prior I
was anti anti-deps LOL. very@! I’m a herb n therapy or whatever else first
person. But I was too down to look up that far. A friend took me to the
docs.  Love her!!!
Coool!!!! Don’t have to worry bout them now come ibogain session in Jan!!!
Just these weird….. almost like really minor electric shocks, or buzzes in
my aura, or around my body.. it’s quite weird, but not unbearable!! Lol
Trippy damn shit.
Kirk xx
—–Original Message—–
From: jon [mailto:jfreed1@umbc.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, 16 November 2005 11:57 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Coming off anti-depressants
depends which med you were on and how much of it you were taking. some
anti-depressants can have pretty nasty wd syndromes, some don’t. but if
you’ve already been off it for 4 or 5 days or whatever and don’t notice
any major symptoms, you’re probably not gonna have any.
just be aware of your mood and your behaviour… see a doctor if you
feel any significant depressive symptoms or other mood problems.
Hi all you over flowing with loads of interesting knowledge people (and
the
not so interesting down right boring hahahhahaa..oh hey, that’s usually
me!)
I’ve just accidentally stopped taking my anti-d’s ran out of script last
week by the time I got to doc I’d run out, then had no coin to pay $3
haaaaa
life is tough aye? Lol so I just thought I’d get it when the coin
appeared.
Now, usually when I need bits of money like that it magically appears.not
this time. Then I forgot. Ok it’s now Wednesday (in the real world you
back
water yesterday people cheesh…) and I haven’t had any since last Friday.
Yayy!
Just wondering what side effects I may possibly experience…..or, would
it
be better to go mind over matter (I don’t mind, it really doesn’t matter)
and just pretend im a bit weird anyway. (quiet in the cheap seats I can
hear
you!!!!!!!)  just got a few weird head things going on, more sensation
stuff
than anything else… spacey…. but this energy lately is creating that
anyway.
Ok
If I go completely nuts on here and abuse everyone forgive I know not what
I
do, it’s my brain chemistry trying to balance itself !! hahahah
Ooo gee I could make good use of this hahahahaha~
Nahh wouldn’t do that..
Heheh wicked evil grin
Kirsty xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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[%]
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[%]
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 \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: Beatrice Blue <beatriceblue@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: Preston: & Insomnia Post Ibogaine
Date: November 15, 2005 at 6:00:23 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I suppose I should’ve also added I have a sleeping disorder, so it was
probably easier for me.
On 11/15/05 1:47 PM, “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Re: [Ibogaine] Re: Preston: & Insomnia Post IbogaineI slept fine ON ibo, but
not AFTER ibo.
Hmmm.
Peace and love,
Preston Peet
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —–
From: Beatrice Blue
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 3:31 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: Preston: & Insomnia Post Ibogaine
Mark,
I’ve been told and read that opiate addicts use their drug so often to fall
asleep, so after Ibogaine it takes our bodies awhile to learn how to sleep
on it’s own again.  It actually makes a lot of sense to me.  Plus, we have a
bunch of sleep time backed up.  Although the first time I did Ibo
successfully, I not only slept through most of the session, I was asleep the
day after and had no problems sleeping.  A Greek friend of mine could not
believe it.  Then the next time I did it, I had the sleeping problems and
used Ambien sparingly.  They said I was talking to people that weren’t even
there on the Ambien though.  My friend would come in and ask if I was ok,
and if I knew who they were, and I’d say, ‘Of course!!!  You’re so and so!”
Then I turn back to the bed and continue my conversation with my family who
weren’t there.  As far as I knew, I was sleeping right through.  Sleep is a
strange thing.
My two cents…
Beatrice
On 11/15/05 10:49 AM, “Mark Corcoran” <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com> wrote:
Hey Eeveryone.
Preston, I’ve been keepin up to date on everything with you and hope you are
well. I asked our friend to get in touch with you. Hopefully you guys spoke.
Feel free to call me anytime bro.I’m gonna try and make it up to your
release party after the show. What time do you expect it to go till?
I wanted to make a quick point or rather ask you all a question about
insomnia after Ibogaine.
I found that when I did my first session for methadone and heroin that it
took more than a month to sleep through the night, but when I did my last
session a little over 8 months ago for a straight dope I was able to sleep
within a few nights. I’ve also seen people do psycho-spiritual sessions
sleep the following day, and for coke treatments I’ve been told its the
same.
So my question is do you guys think that insomnia might be the one
withdrawal symptom that Ibogaine doesn’t take care of and not a side effect
of the Ibogaine?
If this has been covered recently, my apologies, I don’t get a chance to go
though most of the posts but I thought it might be worth bringing up.
-M.
From:  “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] Re: Preston:
Date:  Mon, 14 Nov 2005 20:58:16 -0500
I could do without having the cops follow us back in after a smoke
break though.<
LOL, I’d forgotten all about that! That was hilarious!
;-))
Thanks for the smile Randy, I can ALWAYS use another smile.
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
—– Original Message —– From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 4:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: Preston:
In a message dated 11/14/05 3:10:46 PM Eastern Standard Time,
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:
it’s in me, not the ibogaine where I
need to find that change anyway.
You can do this my friend. I wish I was closer to NYC, I’d come to
Alex Gray’s and see ya. I could do without having the cops follow us
back in after a smoke break though. You deserve to be happy,
whatever it takes. Love and hashish    Randy
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
Get MSN Messenger with FREE Video Conversation – the next best thing to
being there! <http://g.msn.com/8HMAENUS/2755??PS=47575>
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]
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From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Coming off anti-depressants
Date: November 15, 2005 at 5:56:52 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
depends which med you were on and how much of it you were taking. some anti-depressants can have pretty nasty wd syndromes, some don’t. but if you’ve already been off it for 4 or 5 days or whatever and don’t notice any major symptoms, you’re probably not gonna have any.
just be aware of your mood and your behaviour… see a doctor if you feel any significant depressive symptoms or other mood problems.
Hi all you over flowing with loads of interesting knowledge people (and the
not so interesting down right boring hahahhahaa..oh hey, that’s usually me!)
I’ve just accidentally stopped taking my anti-d’s ran out of script last
week by the time I got to doc I’d run out, then had no coin to pay $3 haaaaa
life is tough aye? Lol so I just thought I’d get it when the coin appeared.
Now, usually when I need bits of money like that it magically appears.not
this time. Then I forgot. Ok it’s now Wednesday (in the real world you back
water yesterday people cheesh…) and I haven’t had any since last Friday.
Yayy!
Just wondering what side effects I may possibly experience…..or, would it
be better to go mind over matter (I don’t mind, it really doesn’t matter)
and just pretend im a bit weird anyway. (quiet in the cheap seats I can hear
you!!!!!!!)  just got a few weird head things going on, more sensation stuff
than anything else… spacey…. but this energy lately is creating that
anyway.
Ok
If I go completely nuts on here and abuse everyone forgive I know not what I
do, it’s my brain chemistry trying to balance itself !! hahahah
Ooo gee I could make good use of this hahahahaha~
Nahh wouldn’t do that..
Heheh wicked evil grin
Kirsty xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
 /]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
 \]=———————————————————————=[/
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Coming off anti-depressants
Date: November 15, 2005 at 5:47:48 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi all you over flowing with loads of interesting knowledge people (and the
not so interesting down right boring hahahhahaa..oh hey, that’s usually me!)
I’ve just accidentally stopped taking my anti-d’s ran out of script last
week by the time I got to doc I’d run out, then had no coin to pay $3 haaaaa
life is tough aye? Lol so I just thought I’d get it when the coin appeared.
Now, usually when I need bits of money like that it magically appears.not
this time. Then I forgot. Ok it’s now Wednesday (in the real world you back
water yesterday people cheesh…) and I haven’t had any since last Friday.
Yayy!
Just wondering what side effects I may possibly experience…..or, would it
be better to go mind over matter (I don’t mind, it really doesn’t matter)
and just pretend im a bit weird anyway. (quiet in the cheap seats I can hear
you!!!!!!!)  just got a few weird head things going on, more sensation stuff
than anything else… spacey…. but this energy lately is creating that
anyway.
Ok
If I go completely nuts on here and abuse everyone forgive I know not what I
do, it’s my brain chemistry trying to balance itself !! hahahah
Ooo gee I could make good use of this hahahahaha~
Nahh wouldn’t do that..
Heheh wicked evil grin
Kirsty xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
 /]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
 \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: Preston: & Insomnia Post Ibogaine
Date: November 15, 2005 at 4:47:46 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Re: [Ibogaine] Re: Preston: & Insomnia Post IbogaineI slept fine ON ibo, but not AFTER ibo.
Hmmm.
Peace and love,
Preston Peet
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —– From: Beatrice Blue
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 3:31 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: Preston: & Insomnia Post Ibogaine
Mark,
I’ve been told and read that opiate addicts use their drug so often to fall asleep, so after Ibogaine it takes our bodies awhile to learn how to sleep on it’s own again.  It actually makes a lot of sense to me.  Plus, we have a bunch of sleep time backed up.  Although the first time I did Ibo successfully, I not only slept through most of the session, I was asleep the day after and had no problems sleeping.  A Greek friend of mine could not believe it.  Then the next time I did it, I had the sleeping problems and used Ambien sparingly.  They said I was talking to people that weren’t even there on the Ambien though.  My friend would come in and ask if I was ok, and if I knew who they were, and I’d say, ‘Of course!!!  You’re so and so!” Then I turn back to the bed and continue my conversation with my family who weren’t there.  As far as I knew, I was sleeping right through.  Sleep is a strange thing.
My two cents…
Beatrice
On 11/15/05 10:49 AM, “Mark Corcoran” <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com> wrote:
Hey Eeveryone.
Preston, I’ve been keepin up to date on everything with you and hope you are well. I asked our friend to get in touch with you. Hopefully you guys spoke. Feel free to call me anytime bro.I’m gonna try and make it up to your release party after the show. What time do you expect it to go till?
I wanted to make a quick point or rather ask you all a question about insomnia after Ibogaine.
I found that when I did my first session for methadone and heroin that it took more than a month to sleep through the night, but when I did my last session a little over 8 months ago for a straight dope I was able to sleep within a few nights. I’ve also seen people do psycho-spiritual sessions sleep the following day, and for coke treatments I’ve been told its the same.
So my question is do you guys think that insomnia might be the one withdrawal symptom that Ibogaine doesn’t take care of and not a side effect of the Ibogaine?
If this has been covered recently, my apologies, I don’t get a chance to go though most of the posts but I thought it might be worth bringing up.
-M.
From:  “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] Re: Preston:
Date:  Mon, 14 Nov 2005 20:58:16 -0500
I could do without having the cops follow us back in after a smoke
break though.<
LOL, I’d forgotten all about that! That was hilarious!
;-))
Thanks for the smile Randy, I can ALWAYS use another smile.
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
—– Original Message —– From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 4:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: Preston:
In a message dated 11/14/05 3:10:46 PM Eastern Standard Time,
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:
it’s in me, not the ibogaine where I
need to find that change anyway.
You can do this my friend. I wish I was closer to NYC, I’d come to
Alex Gray’s and see ya. I could do without having the cops follow us
back in after a smoke break though. You deserve to be happy,
whatever it takes. Love and hashish    Randy
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From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: Preston: & Insomnia Post Ibogaine
Date: November 15, 2005 at 5:14:03 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
“psychospiritual sessions” and “coke treatment:”  not sure what those amount to.  Explain…….   But it’s fine to question whether post-treatment insomnia is peculiar to Ibogaine Rx.  Dr. Ed
From: Carol Ann <saffireskyes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Reduce the risk of sudden death with omega-3s
Date: November 15, 2005 at 4:52:18 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/chris/2005/05/30/violence_and_nutrition.htm#1
Other noteworthy yet very simple, underestimated nutritional supplements will help as well.   In case you guys and gals ever get bored, perusing the above website might be  fun.   It contains the ramblings of Lettered Medical dissidants.
Wishing everyone health and happiness.   Preston, nice to read things are going well.
BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 11/14/05 7:57:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, luke.christoffersen@gmail.com writes:
Apparantly omega-3 oils help prevent abnormal heart rythms I don’t
know if this could be helpfull for people taking ibogaine.
Great idea!!! I don’t see how omega 3 oils could be any harm that’s for sure. They make me feel better since I started taking it.       Randy
BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:
I
Best regards,
Carol
_______________________________
Never Accept Only Two Choices in Life.
The problems of Today cannot be solved by the same thinking that created them.
-Al Einstein.
Yahoo! FareChase – Search multiple travel sites in one click.
From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: Preston: & Insomnia Post Ibogaine
Date: November 15, 2005 at 4:28:47 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
lets not forget that iboga is also used as a powefull stimulant in africa
From: Beatrice Blue <beatriceblue@cox.net>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: Preston: & Insomnia Post Ibogaine
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 12:31:25 -0800
Mark,
I’ve been told and read that opiate addicts use their drug so often to fall asleep, so after Ibogaine it takes our bodies awhile to learn how to sleep on it’s own again.  It actually makes a lot of sense to me.  Plus, we have a bunch of sleep time backed up.  Although the first time I did Ibo successfully, I not only slept through most of the session, I was asleep the day after and had no problems sleeping.  A Greek friend of mine could not believe it.  Then the next time I did it, I had the sleeping problems and used Ambien sparingly.  They said I was talking to people that weren’t even there on the Ambien though.  My friend would come in and ask if I was ok, and if I knew who they were, and I’d say, ‘Of course!!!  You’re so and so!”  Then I turn back to the bed and continue my conversation with my family who weren’t there.  As far as I knew, I was sleeping right through.  Sleep is a strange thing.
My two cents…
Beatrice
On 11/15/05 10:49 AM, “Mark Corcoran” <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com> wrote:
Hey Eeveryone.
Preston, I’ve been keepin up to date on everything with you and hope you are well. I asked our friend to get in touch with you. Hopefully you guys spoke. Feel free to call me anytime bro.I’m gonna try and make it up to your release party after the show. What time do you expect it to go till?
I wanted to make a quick point or rather ask you all a question about insomnia after Ibogaine.
I found that when I did my first session for methadone and heroin that it took more than a month to sleep through the night, but when I did my last session a little over 8 months ago for a straight dope I was able to sleep within a few nights. I’ve also seen people do psycho-spiritual sessions sleep the following day, and for coke treatments I’ve been told its the same.
So my question is do you guys think that insomnia might be the one withdrawal symptom that Ibogaine doesn’t take care of and not a side effect of the Ibogaine?
If this has been covered recently, my apologies, I don’t get a chance to go though most of the posts but I thought it might be worth bringing up.
-M.
From:  “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] Re: Preston:
Date:  Mon, 14 Nov 2005 20:58:16 -0500
>>I could do without having the cops follow us back in after a smoke
>>break though.<
>
>LOL, I’d forgotten all about that! That was hilarious!
>;-))
>Thanks for the smile Randy, I can ALWAYS use another smile.
>
>
>Peace and love,
>Preston
>
>”Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
>often mistaken for madness”
>Richard Davenport-Hines
>
>
>
>—– Original Message —– From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 4:03 PM
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: Preston:
>
>
>In a message dated 11/14/05 3:10:46 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:
>
>
>it’s in me, not the ibogaine where I
>need to find that change anyway.
>
>
>
>You can do this my friend. I wish I was closer to NYC, I’d come to
>Alex Gray’s and see ya. I could do without having the cops follow us
>back in after a smoke break though. You deserve to be happy,
>whatever it takes. Love and hashish    Randy
>
>
>
>
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>
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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re: Preston: & Insomnia Post Ibogaine
Date: November 15, 2005 at 4:41:17 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Re: ibo for giving up cigs, PLEASE keep us informed would love to hear the results, how much you took etc.
Also, I am curious to know if anyone has been treated for Binge Gambling.  I heard that it was found that Ibogaine changed something in the brain to do with  binge behaviour. I really wish to help my daughter’s father out…. For his sake AND the sake of his beautiful partner and their 7 kids.
He’s a good person really…..but decided to gamble away all his money last Friday when he was supposed to bring home food and presents for zoe’s birthday.  Poor Kaye, she was gutted, but I got some beers for us and we got drunk and laughed heaps! I suggested it to him, he wants to know more.
Kirk
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com [mailto:BiscuitBoy714@aol.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, 16 November 2005 9:34 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: Preston: & Insomnia Post Ibogaine
Marc, I think that there are a lot of things involved with these sleep problems. Everyone has a different physiology, and different things that have happened to them. Not all people react the same after Ibo. Maybe brain injury at an early age has something to do with some people being worse than others.  (thanx Ed)  Also when kicking Methadone it takes more Ibogaine for a longer period of time and we all know that Ibogaine was sold as speed in France early in the last century. Most likely we get used to the experience and don’t stress about it as much after the first treatment. I’m gonna do a treatment to quit smoking cigs in the future and I am intersted to see if it effects my sleeping the same as the last time did. I’ve never slept “normal” that I can remember. I do seem to be able to sleep better now than I can ever remember before my treatment though. This is just my opinion, but I think if we keep at it we may be able to find a combination of things that will really help after Ibo. I think maybe this is the most talked about side effect of an Ibogane treatment. Good to see ya here my friend.     Love and Qualudes        Randy
From: Luke Christoffersen <luke.christoffersen@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: Ibogaine fatalities:
Date: November 15, 2005 at 4:35:21 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hey Matt, did you ever get any relief from your allergies after your
sessions?  I’ve had allergic problems that come and go for the past 2
years. I’ve always had problems with my nose but it’s been much worse
these days.
Luke
On 11/11/05, matthew zielinski <mattzielinski@hotmail.com> wrote:
I can certainly attest to majority of the symptons listed below after
undergoing my first treament for opiates/methadone/benzos.
Out of nowhere my heart sack become infected causing tremendous pain, my
ulcers returned and complications with my pancreas left me a in great deal
of suffering.  I was also afflicted with sudden allergic outbursts that left
me sneezing and snifling for about 3 months.  In addition i was perspiring
so much for the first few days after treament that i literary had to change
my shirt every 30 min tops.  NO joke :]
Thanks for posting that—very interesting
With love
Matt
________________________________
From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: Ibogaine fatalities:
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 12:07:21 EST
As an Internal Medicine specialist for forty years and an addiction
specialist for the final twelve years of my career, I was most fascinated by
observing sleep changes prior to the onset AND during recovery of behavioral
and physical disorders.  It appeared to me that sleep impairment/deprivation
PRECEDED such disorders, but not uncommonly precipitated during sleep
replacement/recovery.  Stress, obviously, mobilizes the body to respond with
physiologic arousal (via sympathetic nervous sytem mechanisms) to maintain
performance in spite of the stress.  During recovery, sympathetic responses
give way to parasympathetic arousal to reinstate digestion and assimilation
for nutrition, increased clotting for vascular repair, inflammation and
congestion to heal vascular, mucus and joint membranes. (Just simple
YING/YANG!)  Disorders appearing during “recovery,” included
gastrointestinal hyperactivity/acidity (ulcers, gastro-esophageal reflux,
diarrhea, etc.) and thrombosis (coronary occlusions, thrombophlebitis with
pulmonary embolism/infarction, arterial thrombosis-mesenteric
occlusion/cerebral artery strokes) and infection at sites previous dormant
during stress (pneumonia, dental and skin abscesses, etc.)
    In addition, gastro-esophageal reflux is known to lead to aspiration of
acidic stomach contents into the lungs, causing “asthma-like” symptoms and
sometimes sudden death (e.g. Reggie White of Green Bay Packer fame).
    IF, as I tend to theorize, the Ibogaine experience creates a rapid
shifting from STRESS to RECOVERY of the brain, one might expect the above
“Recovery” pheno-mena to occur precipitantly, making vascular occlusions
(coronaries, strokes and phlebitis) possible, asthma and pneumonia due to
aspiration likely and inflammatory HEALING responses to dental, skin, liver
and other sites of dormant infection, bacterial or viral, common.
    On the other hand, it is remarkable that IBOGAINE appears to be as safe
as it does in such a compromised population as drug dependent folks.  At an
NIH brain storming session concerning IBOGAINE in Bethesda in 1995, I
expressed concern that 1) we would want to be very careful using Ibogaine in
the elderly, who predictably would have subtle lesions in their body
“waiting” to be dramatically “healed” by the “restoring” brain.  This might
trigger thromboses, inflammation and gastro-esophageal reflux/aspiration;
and 2) suggested that a sleep specialist be intimately involved in the
research of Ibogaine.  I continue to suggest these same elements.
    I also “theorize” that the psychedelic experience triggered by Ibogaine
dramatically RESTORES needed REM-Stage Sleep, in addicts who have a very
severe deprivation state of REM Sleep due to their habit.  All the drugs of
“addiction” deprive the brain of or suppress REM-Stage Sleep, indeed almost
all current psychiatric drugs do ALSO.  The exceptions to this REM depriving
effect are the PSYCHEDELICS (mescaline, soma, LSD and ayahuasca) ! ! !
    To rapidly reverse “withdrawal,” stop “craving” in its tracks and
provide a mystical, often psychotherapeutic, effect, is certainly a dramatic
“HEALING” effect on the brain, giving the brain the opportunity to
potentiate healing of the body.  But most physicians realize the “rapid
healing” of the body can be dangerous and lethal, when  thromboses occur,
fever rises to 107 degrees, or congestion overwhelms the lungs or infection
raises the body’s defenses to the point of vascular shock, intra-vascular
coagulation, etc.
    Any reactions by our audience?      Ed Friedrichs, M.D., Brown Deer, WI
________________________________
Create your own custom mailing list called Groups with MSN Hotmail
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From: Beatrice Blue <beatriceblue@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: Preston: & Insomnia Post Ibogaine
Date: November 15, 2005 at 3:31:25 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Mark,
I’ve been told and read that opiate addicts use their drug so often to fall asleep, so after Ibogaine it takes our bodies awhile to learn how to sleep on it’s own again.  It actually makes a lot of sense to me.  Plus, we have a bunch of sleep time backed up.  Although the first time I did Ibo successfully, I not only slept through most of the session, I was asleep the day after and had no problems sleeping.  A Greek friend of mine could not believe it.  Then the next time I did it, I had the sleeping problems and used Ambien sparingly.  They said I was talking to people that weren’t even there on the Ambien though.  My friend would come in and ask if I was ok, and if I knew who they were, and I’d say, ‘Of course!!!  You’re so and so!”  Then I turn back to the bed and continue my conversation with my family who weren’t there.  As far as I knew, I was sleeping right through.  Sleep is a strange thing.
My two cents…
Beatrice
On 11/15/05 10:49 AM, “Mark Corcoran” <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com> wrote:
Hey Eeveryone.
Preston, I’ve been keepin up to date on everything with you and hope you are well. I asked our friend to get in touch with you. Hopefully you guys spoke. Feel free to call me anytime bro.I’m gonna try and make it up to your release party after the show. What time do you expect it to go till?
I wanted to make a quick point or rather ask you all a question about insomnia after Ibogaine.
I found that when I did my first session for methadone and heroin that it took more than a month to sleep through the night, but when I did my last session a little over 8 months ago for a straight dope I was able to sleep within a few nights. I’ve also seen people do psycho-spiritual sessions sleep the following day, and for coke treatments I’ve been told its the same.
So my question is do you guys think that insomnia might be the one withdrawal symptom that Ibogaine doesn’t take care of and not a side effect of the Ibogaine?
If this has been covered recently, my apologies, I don’t get a chance to go though most of the posts but I thought it might be worth bringing up.
-M.
From:  “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] Re: Preston:
Date:  Mon, 14 Nov 2005 20:58:16 -0500
>>I could do without having the cops follow us back in after a smoke
>>break though.<
>
>LOL, I’d forgotten all about that! That was hilarious!
>;-))
>Thanks for the smile Randy, I can ALWAYS use another smile.
>
>
>Peace and love,
>Preston
>
>”Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
>often mistaken for madness”
>Richard Davenport-Hines
>
>
>
>—– Original Message —– From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 4:03 PM
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: Preston:
>
>
>In a message dated 11/14/05 3:10:46 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:
>
>
>it’s in me, not the ibogaine where I
>need to find that change anyway.
>
>
>
>You can do this my friend. I wish I was closer to NYC, I’d come to
>Alex Gray’s and see ya. I could do without having the cops follow us
>back in after a smoke break though. You deserve to be happy,
>whatever it takes. Love and hashish    Randy
>
>
>
>
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
>[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>
>\]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>
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From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ot) Trepanation??? vector wtf??? lol
Date: November 15, 2005 at 3:44:46 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
or maybe the idea of original sin was put forth to have a better control of people who are afraid to think for themselves
no matter what it is its all good because in the end, at the end of all paths as my budy says there is only love
love love love
matt
From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ot) Trepanation??? vector wtf??? lol
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 12:43:02 +0000 (GMT)
Exactly. That’s why there are people out there on the margins of society completely traumatised from such things and on the verge of suicide unable to share their experiences because of the deep shame they feel for being such a fool. The shadow has completely mislead them into a form of magical thinking of sorts which has led them into a very foolhardy situation.
I find it all very sad and the people who knowingly take advantage of others in this kinda way wholly taken over by their shadow where they feed their own dark side with the almost psychotic glee of the shadow. People don’t get it, the shadow imho.
I was thinking the other night that the idea of original sin in christianity may be linked to being born with the nuceus of a shadow waiting to grow?
Lee
Luke Christoffersen <luke.christoffersen@gmail.com> wrote:
Perhaps you’re right. People who are unfullfilled will try anything
in the hope that it may solve their problems. There isn’t any obvious
guidance here. I guess that’s why people end up ripped off burned and
used because they’re so desperate with hope that something will work.
On 11/11/05, Lee Albert wrote:
> I had a look at that page Luke and to be honest I need that operation like a
> hole in the head!
> It looks absolutely horrendous and to do such a thing to yourself is
> bordering on Shadow inspired self mutilation imho.
> Lee
>
> Luke Christoffersen wrote:
> Trepanation sounds a bit mad alright. Here’s a link to an account of
> a dude of did it and lived and didn’t seem to see any real lasting
> benifit. I remember reading an account somewhere on the web about a
> place, in Asia I think, doing it as a cure for addictions. I can’t
> remember how I came to be reading about this, probably just bored at
> work. 🙂
>
> http://www.bmezine.com/news/people/A10101/trepan/
>
>
>
> On 11/9/05, Kirk wrote:
> > Huh? What the heck is trepanation???? Drilling holes in his head??? Wtf??
> > Yes report please lol
> > k
> >
> > —–Original Message—–
> > From: Vector Vector [mailto:vector620022002@yahoo.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, 10 November 2005 8:00 a.m.
> > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Full BBC Documentary Online: One Life: Detox or
> Die
> > – The life of a heroin/methadone addict in Glascow, the cost of his
> > dependence and the hope offered by ibogaine/eboga.
> >
> > The guy who made the movie, David Scott is on mindvox and talked about
> > it almost 2 years ago when he was making it, finishing it, his stories
> > were going to the media, as far as I remember they were a little over
> > the top sensationalistic with him building up to either detoxing or
> > dying. reeldeathfilms. The last conversations I remember here he was
> > talking about trepanation and drilling holes in his head, probably also
> > in front of a camera.
> >
> > Did you want a written report? 😉
> >
> > .:vector:.
> >
> > — Lee Albert wrote:
> >
> > > Hi List,
> > >
> > > I have had some interesting feedback on this documentary.
> > >
> > > Any more comments?
> > >
> > > Lee
> > >
> > > Lee Albert wrote:
> > > Hi List,
> > >
> > > Just to let you know I have a link on my providers page and links
> > > page for the full BBC documentary of:
> > >
> > > “Detox or Die – David Graham Scott has been addicted to drugs for
> > > nearly 20 years. Watch this BBC documentary about his fight to beat
> > > his addiction and treatment provided by Edward Conn.”
> > >
> > >
> > > www.my-eboga.com/providers.html
> > >
> > > This documentary can also be accessed directly via:
> > >
> > > www.becomewhole.co.uk
> > >
> > > Lee
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over
> > > a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
> > > www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
> > >
> > >
> > > My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
> > > interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for
> > > those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over
> > > a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
> > > www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
> > >
> > >
> > > My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
> > > interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for
> > > those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Start your day with Yahoo! – Make it your home page!
> > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
> >
> >
> >
> >
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>
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>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six
> year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
> www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
> My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
> interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those
> already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
Don’t just Search. Find! The new MSN Search: Fast. Clear. Easy. /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: Luke Christoffersen <luke.christoffersen@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ot) Trepanation??? vector wtf??? lol
Date: November 15, 2005 at 3:28:40 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I think it goes on in more subtle forms in everyday life.  Advertising
seems particularly full of things aimed at using peoples
vulnerabilities.  Even the psychology used in some work environments.
You’re right that there’s a lot of more extreem abuses going on.  I
watched a program about the sex trade in eastern europe.  It showed
how they conned women into beliving they were going for normal jobs
and where just sold as slaves.  They seem to know how to pick out the
most vunerable people.
I was wondering alot what it is to be emotionally and spiritually
healthy in this world.  Alot of the work environments are still so
production driven.  Everything needs to be done now.  Maybe we’ll see
an increase in psychotics if people are forced to work so much to make
ends meet.  I wonder what kind of effect it will have on childeren if
both parents have to work.
Stan Grofs book mentions original sin as being related to the birth
trauma.  Apparently some patients reliving birth in lsd sessions made
a connection to this trauma and original sin.  I was wondering if the
trepaning had any relation to birth trauma.  I could imagine someone
getting the idea of drilling a little hole in the hope to release the
pressure from the head.
On 11/15/05, Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Exactly. That’s why there are people out there on the margins of society
completely traumatised from such things and on the verge of suicide unable
to share their experiences because of the deep shame they feel for being
such a fool. The shadow has completely mislead them into a form of magical
thinking of sorts which has led them into a very foolhardy situation.
I find it all very sad and the people who knowingly take advantage of others
in this kinda way wholly taken over by their shadow where they feed their
own dark side with the almost psychotic glee of the shadow. People don’t get
it, the shadow imho.
I was thinking the other night that the idea of original sin in christianity
may be linked to being born with the nuceus of a shadow waiting to grow?
Lee
Luke Christoffersen <luke.christoffersen@gmail.com> wrote:
Perhaps you’re right. People who are unfullfilled will try anything
in the hope that it may solve their problems. There isn’t any obvious
guidance here. I guess that’s why people end up ripped off burned and
used because they’re so desperate with hope that something will work.
On 11/11/05, Lee Albert wrote:
I had a look at that page Luke and to be honest I need that operation like
a
hole in the head!
It looks absolutely horrendous and to do such a thing to yourself is
bordering on Shadow inspired self mutilation imho.
Lee
Luke Christoffersen wrote:
Trepanation sounds a bit mad alright. Here’s a link to an account of
a dude of did it and lived and didn’t seem to see any real lasting
benifit. I remember reading an account somewhere on the web about a
place, in Asia I think, doing it as a cure for addictions. I can’t
remember how I came to be reading about this, probably just bored at
work. 🙂
http://www.bmezine.com/news/people/A10101/trepan/
On 11/9/05, Kirk wrote:
Huh? What the heck is trepanation???? Drilling holes in his head???
Wtf??
Yes report please lol
k
—–Original Message—–
From: Vector Vector [mailto:vector620022002@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, 10 November 2005 8:00 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Full BBC Documentary Online: One Life: Detox or
Die
– The life of a heroin/methadone addict in Glascow, the cost of his
dependence and the hope offered by ibogaine/eboga.
The guy who made the movie, David Scott is on mindvox and talked about
it almost 2 years ago when he was making it, finishing it, his stories
were going to the media, as far as I remember they were a little over
the top sensationalistic with him building up to either detoxing or
dying. reeldeathfilms. The last conversations I remember here he was
talking about trepanation and drilling holes in his head, probably also
in front of a camera.
Did you want a written report? 😉
.:vector:.
— Lee Albert wrote:
Hi List,
I have had some interesting feedback on this documentary.
Any more comments?
Lee
Lee Albert wrote:
Hi List,
Just to let you know I have a link on my providers page and links
page for the full BBC documentary of:
“Detox or Die – David Graham Scott has been addicted to drugs for
nearly 20 years. Watch this BBC documentary about his fight to beat
his addiction and treatment provided by Edward Conn.”
www.my-eboga.com/providers.html
This documentary can also be accessed directly via:
www.becomewhole.co.uk
Lee
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over
a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for
those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over
a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for
those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
__________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! – Make it your home page!
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
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/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
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\]=———————————————————————=[/
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a
six
year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those
already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six
year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those
already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
 /]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: Preston: & Insomnia Post Ibogaine
Date: November 15, 2005 at 3:34:15 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Marc, I think that there are a lot of things involved with these sleep problems. Everyone has a different physiology, and different things that have happened to them. Not all people react the same after Ibo. Maybe brain injury at an early age has something to do with some people being worse than others.  (thanx Ed)  Also when kicking Methadone it takes more Ibogaine for a longer period of time and we all know that Ibogaine was sold as speed in France early in the last century. Most likely we get used to the experience and don’t stress about it as much after the first treatment. I’m gonna do a treatment to quit smoking cigs in the future and I am intersted to see if it effects my sleeping the same as the last time did. I’ve never slept “normal” that I can remember. I do seem to be able to sleep better now than I can ever remember before my treatment though. This is just my opinion, but I think if we keep at it we may be able to find a combination of things that will really help after Ibo. I think maybe this is the most talked about side effect of an Ibogane treatment. Good to see ya here my friend.     Love and Qualudes        Randy
From: “Mark Corcoran” <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Randy.
Date: November 15, 2005 at 1:50:34 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Skeeeeter. When are u comin back to Bklyn? We miss you. -m.
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Reduce the risk of sudden death with omega-3s
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 20:17:40 EST
In a message dated 11/14/05 7:57:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, luke.christoffersen@gmail.com writes:
Apparantly omega-3 oils help prevent abnormal heart rythms I don’t
know if this could be helpfull for people taking ibogaine.
Great idea!!! I don’t see how omega 3 oils could be any harm that’s for sure. They make me feel better since I started taking it.       Randy
3 FREE months of MSN Dial-up Internet service. Click for full details and to sign-up now! /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: “Mark Corcoran” <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: Preston: & Insomnia Post Ibogaine
Date: November 15, 2005 at 1:49:06 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hey Eeveryone.
Preston, I’ve been keepin up to date on everything with you and hope you are well. I asked our friend to get in touch with you. Hopefully you guys spoke. Feel free to call me anytime bro.I’m gonna try and make it up to your release party after the show. What time do you expect it to go till?
I wanted to make a quick point or rather ask you all a question about insomnia after Ibogaine.
I found that when I did my first session for methadone and heroin that it took more than a month to sleep through the night, but when I did my last session a little over 8 months ago for a straight dope I was able to sleep within a few nights. I’ve also seen people do psycho-spiritual sessions sleep the following day, and for coke treatments I’ve been told its the same.
So my question is do you guys think that insomnia might be the one withdrawal symptom that Ibogaine doesn’t take care of and not a side effect of the Ibogaine?
If this has been covered recently, my apologies, I don’t get a chance to go though most of the posts but I thought it might be worth bringing up.
-M.
From:  “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] Re: Preston:
Date:  Mon, 14 Nov 2005 20:58:16 -0500
>>I could do without having the cops follow us back in after a smoke
>>break though.<
>
>LOL, I’d forgotten all about that! That was hilarious!
>;-))
>Thanks for the smile Randy, I can ALWAYS use another smile.
>
>
>Peace and love,
>Preston
>
>”Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
>often mistaken for madness”
>Richard Davenport-Hines
>
>
>
>—– Original Message —– From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 4:03 PM
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: Preston:
>
>
>In a message dated 11/14/05 3:10:46 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:
>
>
>it’s in me, not the ibogaine where I
>need to find that change anyway.
>
>
>
>You can do this my friend. I wish I was closer to NYC, I’d come to
>Alex Gray’s and see ya. I could do without having the cops follow us
>back in after a smoke break though. You deserve to be happy,
>whatever it takes. Love and hashish    Randy
>
>
>
>
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
>[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>
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>
>
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From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Reduce the risk of sudden death with omega-3s
Date: November 15, 2005 at 9:12:23 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Omega 3 as well as Omega 6 belong to the Class of Essential
Fatty Acids.  They are called Essential because the body can’t
produce them, we have to obtain them through diet or by taking
supplements.  The individual body cells use these at the cell membrane
level.  If a person happened to be difficient, then adding them is
bound to have a positive effect.  ie., nerve functioning and indeed
all kinds of CNS functioning as well as the whole body.
cheers
ann
think@francomm.com
—– Original Message —– From: “Luke Christoffersen” <luke.christoffersen@gmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 8:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Reduce the risk of sudden death with omega-3s
Cool.  I’m trying them out myself.  They improve my memory and energy
alright but I think feel more tense sometimes.
On 11/15/05, BiscuitBoy714@aol.com <BiscuitBoy714@aol.com> wrote:
In a message dated 11/14/05 7:57:47 PM Eastern Standard Time,
luke.christoffersen@gmail.com writes:
Apparantly omega-3 oils help prevent abnormal heart rythms I don’t
know if this could be helpfull for people taking ibogaine.
Great idea!!! I don’t see how omega 3 oils could be any harm that’s for
sure. They make me feel better since I started taking it.       Randy
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From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ot) Trepanation??? vector wtf??? lol
Date: November 15, 2005 at 7:43:02 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Exactly. That’s why there are people out there on the margins of society completely traumatised from such things and on the verge of suicide unable to share their experiences because of the deep shame they feel for being such a fool. The shadow has completely mislead them into a form of magical thinking of sorts which has led them into a very foolhardy situation.
I find it all very sad and the people who knowingly take advantage of others in this kinda way wholly taken over by their shadow where they feed their own dark side with the almost psychotic glee of the shadow. People don’t get it, the shadow imho.
I was thinking the other night that the idea of original sin in christianity may be linked to being born with the nuceus of a shadow waiting to grow?
Lee
Luke Christoffersen <luke.christoffersen@gmail.com> wrote:
Perhaps you’re right. People who are unfullfilled will try anything
in the hope that it may solve their problems. There isn’t any obvious
guidance here. I guess that’s why people end up ripped off burned and
used because they’re so desperate with hope that something will work.
On 11/11/05, Lee Albert wrote:
> I had a look at that page Luke and to be honest I need that operation like a
> hole in the head!
> It looks absolutely horrendous and to do such a thing to yourself is
> bordering on Shadow inspired self mutilation imho.
> Lee
>
> Luke Christoffersen wrote:
> Trepanation sounds a bit mad alright. Here’s a link to an account of
> a dude of did it and lived and didn’t seem to see any real lasting
> benifit. I remember reading an account somewhere on the web about a
> place, in Asia I think, doing it as a cure for addictions. I can’t
> remember how I came to be reading about this, probably just bored at
> work. 🙂
>
> http://www.bmezine.com/news/people/A10101/trepan/
>
>
>
> On 11/9/05, Kirk wrote:
> > Huh? What the heck is trepanation???? Drilling holes in his head??? Wtf??
> > Yes report please lol
> > k
> >
> > —–Original Message—–
> > From: Vector Vector [mailto:vector620022002@yahoo.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, 10 November 2005 8:00 a.m.
> > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Full BBC Documentary Online: One Life: Detox or
> Die
> > – The life of a heroin/methadone addict in Glascow, the cost of his
> > dependence and the hope offered by ibogaine/eboga.
> >
> > The guy who made the movie, David Scott is on mindvox and talked about
> > it almost 2 years ago when he was making it, finishing it, his stories
> > were going to the media, as far as I remember they were a little over
> > the top sensationalistic with him building up to either detoxing or
> > dying. reeldeathfilms. The last conversations I remember here he was
> > talking about trepanation and drilling holes in his head, probably also
> > in front of a camera.
> >
> > Did you want a written report? 😉
> >
> > .:vector:.
> >
> > — Lee Albert wrote:
> >
> > > Hi List,
> > >
> > > I have had some interesting feedback on this documentary.
> > >
> > > Any more comments?
> > >
> > > Lee
> > >
> > > Lee Albert wrote:
> > > Hi List,
> > >
> > > Just to let you know I have a link on my providers page and links
> > > page for the full BBC documentary of:
> > >
> > > “Detox or Die – David Graham Scott has been addicted to drugs for
> > > nearly 20 years. Watch this BBC documentary about his fight to beat
> > > his addiction and treatment provided by Edward Conn.”
> > >
> > >
> > > www.my-eboga.com/providers.html
> > >
> > > This documentary can also be accessed directly via:
> > >
> > > www.becomewhole.co.uk
> > >
> > > Lee
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over
> > > a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
> > > www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
> > >
> > >
> > > My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
> > > interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for
> > > those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over
> > > a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
> > > www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
> > >
> > >
> > > My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
> > > interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for
> > > those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Start your day with Yahoo! – Make it your home page!
> > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
> >
> >
> >
> >
> /]=———————————————————————=[\
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> http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
> > [%]
> >
> >
> \]=———————————————————————=[/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> /]=———————————————————————=[\
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> >
> \]=———————————————————————=[/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> /]=———————————————————————=[\
> [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> \]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six
> year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
> www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
> My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
> interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those
> already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:  Preston:
Date: November 14, 2005 at 8:58:16 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I could do without having the cops follow us back in after a smoke break though.<
LOL, I’d forgotten all about that! That was hilarious!
;-))
Thanks for the smile Randy, I can ALWAYS use another smile.
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
—– Original Message —– From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 4:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: Preston:
In a message dated 11/14/05 3:10:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:
it’s in me, not the ibogaine where I
need to find that change anyway.
You can do this my friend. I wish I was closer to NYC, I’d come to Alex Gray’s and see ya. I could do without having the cops follow us back in after a smoke break though. You deserve to be happy, whatever it takes. Love and hashish    Randy
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
From: Luke Christoffersen <luke.christoffersen@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Reduce the risk of sudden death with omega-3s
Date: November 14, 2005 at 8:45:18 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cool.  I’m trying them out myself.  They improve my memory and energy
alright but I think feel more tense sometimes.
On 11/15/05, BiscuitBoy714@aol.com <BiscuitBoy714@aol.com> wrote:
In a message dated 11/14/05 7:57:47 PM Eastern Standard Time,
luke.christoffersen@gmail.com writes:
Apparantly omega-3 oils help prevent abnormal heart rythms I don’t
know if this could be helpfull for people taking ibogaine.
Great idea!!! I don’t see how omega 3 oils could be any harm that’s for
sure. They make me feel better since I started taking it.       Randy
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From: Luke Christoffersen <luke.christoffersen@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: ibogaine and REM
Date: November 14, 2005 at 8:42:34 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I was looking up melatonin and found ibogaine mentioned on this page
about dreams.  Just referenced as a substances that enhance dreams and
recall 🙂
http://brain.web-us.com/Dream/dreamfaq.htm
It says melatonin actually increases non-REM sleep with a rebound
effect of vivid dreams. Similar for alcohol.
On 11/14/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
—–Original Message—–
From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com [mailto:Edfriedrichs@aol.com]
Sent: 14 November 2005 04:56
To: nick227@tiscali.co.uk
Subject: Thanx, Nick!
Appreciate your interest and comments.  Love your repeated poetic metaphor
of “underground!”  To make the “awareness” sound a little more “scientific,”
consider the possibility that dreaming (REM-Stage Sleep) provides that
awareness, IF we get enough of it!  Carl Jung, an eminent dream analyst,
would certainly agree with us.  As confusing as dreams can be (mine are
unanalysable!), they do seem to “heal” the slings and arrows of the day.
For all we know, dreaming enough may contribute to the creative “Aha” ideas
we get during the day that come from “nowhere.”  Others hypothesize that
when we go deeply into “ourselves,” e.i. mystic states produced by
meditation, religious probing, etc., we do “find” God, or better known as
THE source of truth, wisdom, humility and forgiveness.  Whadda ya think?
Since NREM Stage Sleep occurs mainly early in the night, and REM-Stage Sleep
occurs later toward morning, when we shorten our sleep habits to six, five
or four hours, we primarily lose REM Sleep.  All the drugs of addiction (not
to mention most all psychiatric medica-tions!) ALSO suppress REM-Sleep,
leaving drug dependent folks severely deprived of REM-Sleep. Almost too easy
an explanation!  Appreciatively, Dr. Ed
Hi Ed,
Thanks for the feedback. I would certainly agree that frequently dreams
appear to integrate and thus reduce the emotional charge of some situations
playing on the psyche. About going in generally, and mystical stuff, I’ve
always been a bit of the opinion that dreams are essentially pretty
superficial things and that the dreamstate isn’t in itself a particularly
deep or mystical state of consciousness. I could be wrong. I guess,
traditionally, “God” seems to be regarded more likely to appear through
meditation than in dreamstates.
About the REM sleep of early morning, I find it hard to decide whether
losing it is actually a good or bad thing. It is not clear for me. For sure,
we all like to have a good night’s rest and feel calm and ready for the
forthcoming day. However, in my therapist role, it is frequently evident
that reducing participant’s sleep in weekend therapy groups brings them more
into their feelings and that this is useful in helping them become more
aware of their own internal processes and release internal tensions. This
seems to me to relate to ibogaine treatment in that those who’ve done
ibogaine frequently relate that they have trouble sleeping for a period
afterwards. The implication, to my mind, is that morning REM sleep might be
useful in resolving current emotional issues at a superficial level, but
that a more profound resolution can be had through REM deprivation and some
form of integrative process (therapy). Thus, the drug is attempting to
deepen its issue-resolving work through giving some people REM deprivation.
A few thoughts. What do you think?
I’ll cc this to the ibogaine as there might be people also interested in REM
and ibogaine there. Hope you don’t mind.
All the best
Nick
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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Reduce the risk of sudden death with omega-3s
Date: November 14, 2005 at 8:17:40 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In a message dated 11/14/05 7:57:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, luke.christoffersen@gmail.com writes:
Apparantly omega-3 oils help prevent abnormal heart rythms I don’t
know if this could be helpfull for people taking ibogaine.
Great idea!!! I don’t see how omega 3 oils could be any harm that’s for sure. They make me feel better since I started taking it.       Randy
From: Luke Christoffersen <luke.christoffersen@gmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Reduce the risk of sudden death with omega-3s
Date: November 14, 2005 at 7:56:43 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Apparantly omega-3 oils help prevent abnormal heart rythms I don’t
know if this could be helpfull for people taking ibogaine.   It
probably wouldn’t do any harm.  Though I think that certain
supplements that enhance energy might increase the strength of
ibogaine.
*****An editorial in Circulation: Journal of the American Heart
Association suggests that increasing dietary omega-3 fatty acids,
which come from fatty fish or flaxseed oil, and decreasing omega-6
fatty acids, found in plant seed oils such as corn, safflower, and
sunflower, is a way to reduce the risk of sudden death from irregular
heart rhythms or heart attacks.
       One cause of sudden death is ventricular fibrillation, in
which the heart contracts in a fast and chaotic rhythm that makes it
unable to pump blood to the rest of the body. A number of factors
including cigarette use, fasting, diabetes, hyperthyroidism or heart
attack can trigger the release of fatty acids from adipose tissue.
       Fats that we eat are stored in adipose (fat) tissue. When
these fats are released from their storage sites, they become free
fatty acids. But not all fatty acids are equal in their propensity to
cause arrhythmias. High levels of omega-6 fatty acids may encourage
arrhythmias if their levels aren’t balanced by omega-3 fatty acids.
       Dr. Sahelian says: a year ago the American Heart Association
revised its dietary recommendations to include advice to eat two meals
of fatty fish – such as salmon or halibut – per week. I recommend
those who don’t eat fish to take 3 to 5 fish oil capsules or a
teaspoon of flaxseed oil per day and to try reducing their intake of
omega-6 oils.
From: Luke Christoffersen <luke.christoffersen@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: Ibogaine fatalities:
Date: November 14, 2005 at 7:01:11 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Could be a symptom of something seeking healing?  I found some odd
physical symptoms starting after a session.  Deep tension building up
around my lower intestines.  I starting having flatulance.  Something
deep down in my lower body and it feels like it caused me to fart
literally blow off the tension.  I also found myself belching for no
reason.  There’s been alot of churning around in my stomach.
On 11/14/05, Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
I went through a period of time where I would have a lot of stomach ache and
had to et rennies. I wasn’t sure what brought that on. I thought it was the
HCL. Is that part of the healing response?
Lee
slowone@hush.ai wrote:
An early and very traumatic ibogaine experience interrupted a
pattern of diminished sleep for me: 4-6 hours a night went to 8
hours for a significant period (several years later it’s more like
6-7). The stomach acidity can be intense, like a sunburn.
To Nick: mimosa hostilis rootbark is an alternative source of DMT
for ayahuasca, but isn’t much different than the normal leafy
sources of DMT, so on that ground alone I wouldn’t think that where
an entheogen comes from in a plant is a big factor in its action.
Still, it’s interesting to philosophise 🙂
On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 09:07:21 -0800 Edfriedrichs@aol.com wrote:
As an Internal Medicine specialist for forty years and an
addiction
specialist for the final twelve years of my career, I was most
fascinated by observing
sleep changes prior to the onset AND during recovery of behavioral
and
physical disorders. It appeared to me that sleep
impairment/deprivation PRECEDED
such disorders, but not uncommonly precipitated during sleep
replacement/recovery. Stress, obviously, mobilizes the body to
respond with physiologic arousal
(via sympathetic nervous sytem mechanisms) to maintain performance
in spite of
the stress. During recovery, sympathetic responses give way to
parasympathetic arousal to reinstate digestion and assimilation
for nutrition, increased
clotting for vascular repair, inflammation and congestion to heal
vascular, mucus
and joint membranes. (Just simple YING/YANG!) Disorders appearing
during
“recovery,” included gastrointestinal hyperactivity/acidity
(ulcers,
gastro-esophageal reflux, diarrhea, etc.) and thrombosis (coronary
occlusions,
thrombophlebitis with pulmonary embolism/infarction, arterial
thrombosis-mesenteric
occlusion/cerebral artery strokes) and infection at sites previous
dormant during
stress (pneumonia, dental and skin abscesses, etc.)
In addition, gastro-esophageal reflux is known to lead to
aspiration of
acidic stomach contents into the lungs, causing “asthma-like”
symptoms and
sometimes sudden death (e.g. Reggie White of Green Bay Packer
fame).
IF, as I tend to theorize, the Ibogaine experience creates a
rapid
shifting from STRESS to RECOVERY of the brain, one might expect
the above
“Recovery” pheno-mena to occur precipitantly, making vascular
occlusions (coronaries,
strokes and phlebitis) possible, asthma and pneumonia due to
aspiration likely
and inflammatory HEALING responses to dental, skin, liver and
other sites of
dormant infection, bacterial or viral, common.
On the other hand, it is remarkable that IBOGAINE appears to
be as safe
as it does in such a compromised population as drug dependent
folks. At an
NIH brain storming session concerning IBOGAINE in Bethesda in
1995, I expressed
concern that 1) we would want to be very careful using Ibogaine in
the
elderly, who predictably would have subtle lesions in their body
“waiting” to be
dramatically “healed” by the “restoring” brain. This might
trigger thromboses,
inflammation and gastro-esophageal reflux/aspiration; and 2)
suggested that a
sleep specialist be intimately involved in the research of
Ibogaine. I continue
to suggest these same elements.
I also “theorize” that the psychedelic experience triggered
by Ibogaine
dramatically RESTORES needed REM-Stage Sleep, in addicts who have
a very
severe deprivation state of REM Sleep due to their habit. All the
drugs of
“addiction” deprive the brain of or suppress REM-Stage Sleep,
indeed almost all
current psychiatric drugs do ALSO. The exceptions to this REM
depriving effect are
the PSYCHEDELICS (mescaline, soma, LSD and ayahuasca) ! ! !
To rapidly reverse “withdrawal,” stop “craving” in its tracks
and
provide a mystical, often psychotherapeutic, effect, is certainly
a dramatic
“HEALING” effect on the brain, giving the brain the opportunity to
potentiate healing
of the body. But most physicians realize the “rapid healing” of
the body can
be dangerous and lethal, when thromboses occur, fever rises to
107 degrees,
or congestion overwhelms the lungs or infection raises the body’s
defenses to
the point of vascular shock, intra-vascular coagulation, etc.
Any reactions by our audience? Ed Friedrichs, M.D.,
Brown Deer, WI
Concerned about your privacy? Instantly send FREE secure email, no account
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Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six
year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those
already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
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From: Luke Christoffersen <luke.christoffersen@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: ibogaine and REM
Date: November 14, 2005 at 6:15:11 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I’ve never been able to figure out sleeping patterns.  I find it much
harder to wake up the last year or so after ibogaine. It takes me
longer to wake up and be alert, I feel much worse in the morning and
wake up at night.
I took melatonin a few times.  I think it’s supposed to increase REM
sleep.  I found mself having more lucid dreams and quite detailed
about thinks in my past.  It seems to enhance certain aspects of
memory.  Also if I drank alot of alcohol I would sometimes have really
detailed dreams about childhood stuff the following night.  Perhaps
rebound REM?
On 11/14/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
—–Original Message—–
From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com [mailto:Edfriedrichs@aol.com]
Sent: 14 November 2005 04:56
To: nick227@tiscali.co.uk
Subject: Thanx, Nick!
Appreciate your interest and comments.  Love your repeated poetic metaphor
of “underground!”  To make the “awareness” sound a little more “scientific,”
consider the possibility that dreaming (REM-Stage Sleep) provides that
awareness, IF we get enough of it!  Carl Jung, an eminent dream analyst,
would certainly agree with us.  As confusing as dreams can be (mine are
unanalysable!), they do seem to “heal” the slings and arrows of the day.
For all we know, dreaming enough may contribute to the creative “Aha” ideas
we get during the day that come from “nowhere.”  Others hypothesize that
when we go deeply into “ourselves,” e.i. mystic states produced by
meditation, religious probing, etc., we do “find” God, or better known as
THE source of truth, wisdom, humility and forgiveness.  Whadda ya think?
Since NREM Stage Sleep occurs mainly early in the night, and REM-Stage Sleep
occurs later toward morning, when we shorten our sleep habits to six, five
or four hours, we primarily lose REM Sleep.  All the drugs of addiction (not
to mention most all psychiatric medica-tions!) ALSO suppress REM-Sleep,
leaving drug dependent folks severely deprived of REM-Sleep. Almost too easy
an explanation!  Appreciatively, Dr. Ed
Hi Ed,
Thanks for the feedback. I would certainly agree that frequently dreams
appear to integrate and thus reduce the emotional charge of some situations
playing on the psyche. About going in generally, and mystical stuff, I’ve
always been a bit of the opinion that dreams are essentially pretty
superficial things and that the dreamstate isn’t in itself a particularly
deep or mystical state of consciousness. I could be wrong. I guess,
traditionally, “God” seems to be regarded more likely to appear through
meditation than in dreamstates.
About the REM sleep of early morning, I find it hard to decide whether
losing it is actually a good or bad thing. It is not clear for me. For sure,
we all like to have a good night’s rest and feel calm and ready for the
forthcoming day. However, in my therapist role, it is frequently evident
that reducing participant’s sleep in weekend therapy groups brings them more
into their feelings and that this is useful in helping them become more
aware of their own internal processes and release internal tensions. This
seems to me to relate to ibogaine treatment in that those who’ve done
ibogaine frequently relate that they have trouble sleeping for a period
afterwards. The implication, to my mind, is that morning REM sleep might be
useful in resolving current emotional issues at a superficial level, but
that a more profound resolution can be had through REM deprivation and some
form of integrative process (therapy). Thus, the drug is attempting to
deepen its issue-resolving work through giving some people REM deprivation.
A few thoughts. What do you think?
I’ll cc this to the ibogaine as there might be people also interested in REM
and ibogaine there. Hope you don’t mind.
All the best
Nick
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From: Day Brown <daybrown@artelco.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: FW: Warning… Please forward to everybody
Date: November 14, 2005 at 6:59:19 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Well, actually, I still have the Corel/debian distro that has Corel
graphic software on it, which so far as I know, runs egzactly like
Corel windoz users expect. But have not got a round tuit yet.
Partly cause dos graphic tools are easier and faster for me to deal
with between the related text works. I’m no graphic whiz, but havnt
seen Gimp or even Corel offer me some of the bitmap tweaking that I
get from stuff like DOS NEOPAINT.
So, where Xandros comes in, is when I’m ready to FTP the text and
graphic work to http://anzi.biz or wherever. Just like it found XP,
it can read/write any dos drive, FAT 16 or FAT 32. Even if someone
figures out how to make sabotage software for Linux, my own work is
on either or both FAT 16 & FAT 32 DOS drive/partitions.
I dunno about games; I’ve looked at ‘LOKI’ and a few other Linux
3D adventure/dungeon games, and they look and run like always, the
same as good old DOS DOOM. But the standard desktop stuff, cameras,
scanners, printers, and emailing the images or burning CDs, data,
music, or video… that’s all right there with Xandros. There are
certain brands to avoid- Lexus printers and some of the internal
windmodems. Which are all junk anyway. Support for quality stuff
like USR robotics modems, HP printers, Epson scanners, is perfect.
Given that geeks, who like computers games, and write them, also are
avid supporters of Linux, at some point, all the good games will be
Linux versions. Likewise, OPENOFFICE is going to take over from the
windoz office software, and Mozilla/Firebird have already replaced
the windoz internet tools. Part of the reason open source is taking
off is that Microsoft and the other transnationals and their lawyers
have ripped off so many programmers, that the programmers, who know
they aint gonna be paid for what they do anyway, now give it away.
Which is what I do at http://anzi.biz ; the assembly code is there,
along with an explanation that a hacker would understand. What I own
is the website and possibly the fees for consulting on how to use the
code for some particular application. Ibogaine has people that have
long experience with it, and hopefully, they will also receive some
benefit from the advice they render. Altho, I can see the spiritual
value sufficient that they can afford to give the rest away.
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From: Luke Christoffersen <luke.christoffersen@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Trepanation??? vector wtf??? lol
Date: November 14, 2005 at 5:56:10 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Perhaps you’re right.  People who are unfullfilled will try anything
in the hope that it may solve their problems.  There isn’t any obvious
guidance here. I guess that’s why people end up ripped off burned and
used because they’re so desperate with hope that something will work.
On 11/11/05, Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
I had a look at that page Luke and to be honest I need that operation like a
hole in the head!
It looks absolutely horrendous and to do such a thing to yourself is
bordering on Shadow inspired self mutilation imho.
Lee
Luke Christoffersen <luke.christoffersen@gmail.com> wrote:
Trepanation sounds a bit mad alright. Here’s a link to an account of
a dude of did it and lived and didn’t seem to see any real lasting
benifit. I remember reading an account somewhere on the web about a
place, in Asia I think, doing it as a cure for addictions. I can’t
remember how I came to be reading about this, probably just bored at
work. 🙂
http://www.bmezine.com/news/people/A10101/trepan/
On 11/9/05, Kirk wrote:
Huh? What the heck is trepanation???? Drilling holes in his head??? Wtf??
Yes report please lol
k
—–Original Message—–
From: Vector Vector [mailto:vector620022002@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, 10 November 2005 8:00 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Full BBC Documentary Online: One Life: Detox or
Die
– The life of a heroin/methadone addict in Glascow, the cost of his
dependence and the hope offered by ibogaine/eboga.
The guy who made the movie, David Scott is on mindvox and talked about
it almost 2 years ago when he was making it, finishing it, his stories
were going to the media, as far as I remember they were a little over
the top sensationalistic with him building up to either detoxing or
dying. reeldeathfilms. The last conversations I remember here he was
talking about trepanation and drilling holes in his head, probably also
in front of a camera.
Did you want a written report? 😉
.:vector:.
— Lee Albert wrote:
Hi List,
I have had some interesting feedback on this documentary.
Any more comments?
Lee
Lee Albert wrote:
Hi List,
Just to let you know I have a link on my providers page and links
page for the full BBC documentary of:
“Detox or Die – David Graham Scott has been addicted to drugs for
nearly 20 years. Watch this BBC documentary about his fight to beat
his addiction and treatment provided by Edward Conn.”
www.my-eboga.com/providers.html
This documentary can also be accessed directly via:
www.becomewhole.co.uk
Lee
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over
a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for
those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over
a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for
those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
__________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! – Make it your home page!
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
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/]=———————————————————————=[\
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Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six
year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those
already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
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From: Day Brown <daybrown@artelco.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: FW: Warning… Please forward to everybody
Date: November 14, 2005 at 6:36:32 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Kirk wrote:
Well to be honest, your’s was the first Winj I ever heard about someone
trying to do good and warning people about a potentially dangerous virus.
Doesn’t happen often enough to me to be annoying and if a friend is tryhing
to warn me, it usually means they at least care. Geeee nice isnt’ it????
But if you got xandros then your caring friends are just a pain in the
ass!!!
I dont mind that people are well meaning. Some of the sabotage comes
from windoz user’s own desktops, so that it looks like it was something
the user composed, and when received, takes over some control of the
next windoz user’s email software. If I was a windoz user, I’d go to
Microsoft’s own website for patches every week, and ignore all the
sabotage software warnings.. some of them are sabotage themselves!
Its a wonder that, clunky as Linux distros can be, people still havent been flocking to them to get rid of the constant email virus hassle.
Then too, there was today, when a user gave me a windoz xp drive with
personal data needed to access. It could not be put in a new computer
cause XP would ask for the install disk and that damn 16 digit
registration number. A win 98 system couldnt see the 40 gig ATA drive;
maybe the cmos was too old. But put in on the secondary of my Xandros,
Xandros found it right off and offers to retrieve anything.
So, after we get another motherboard, we’ll install the drive and a
boot/install Xandros CD. Which will see the XP partition, resize the
drive to install on the empty portion, and anyone can copy personal
data off the XP part onto the Xandros part, and do everything with it
that XP could have done with it. music, graphics, text, whatever.
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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:  Preston:
Date: November 14, 2005 at 4:03:50 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In a message dated 11/14/05 3:10:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:
it’s in me, not the ibogaine where I
need to find that change anyway.
You can do this my friend. I wish I was closer to NYC, I’d come to Alex Gray’s and see ya. I could do without having the cops follow us back in after a smoke break though. You deserve to be happy, whatever it takes.      Love and hashish    Randy
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:  Ibogaine fatalities:
Date: November 14, 2005 at 3:10:04 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
one of the main reasons I’m going through this drastic opiate reduction without ibogaine is because the lack of sleep thing. I HATE that part of ibogaine, and figure, to hell with it, it’s in me, not the ibogaine where I need to find that change anyway.
😉
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —– From: shelley krupa
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 9:48 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: Ibogaine fatalities:
Hi All ,I’m interested in this thread myself, hmm the ibogaine assoc Md told me that ibogaine is a very harsh drug, it certainly has been harsh on my intestines every time (4), he told me it is very harsh on the liver as well. I’m inclined to believe that until the nor ibogaine settles in some, that in the very early stages after a treatment we are dealing with alot of side effects, i dont think that alot of the healing stuff we love so much starts the minute we ingest ,minus the ultimate miracle of detox,of course. My sleep never improved right away, even when i did ibogaine for spiritual trip, that is- a non detox trip.thanks to you all,shelley
Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
I went through a period of time where I would have a lot of stomach ache and had to et rennies. I wasn’t sure what brought that on. I thought it was the HCL. Is that part of the healing response?
Lee
slowone@hush.ai wrote:
An early and very traumatic ibogaine experience interrupted a
pattern of diminished sleep for me: 4-6 hours a night went to 8
hours for a significant period (several years later it’s more like
6-7). The stomach acidity can be intense, like a sunburn.
To Nick: mimosa hostilis rootbark is an alternative source of DMT
for ayahuasca, but isn’t much different than the normal leafy
sources of DMT, so on that ground alone I wouldn’t think that where
an entheogen comes from in a plant is a big factor in its action.
Still, it’s interesting to philosophise 🙂
On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 09:07:21 -0800 Edfriedrichs@aol.com wrote:
As an Internal Medicine specialist for forty years and an
addiction
specialist for the final twelve years of my career, I was most
fascinated by observing
sleep changes prior to the onset AND during recovery of behavioral
and
physical disorders. It appeared to me that sleep
impairment/deprivation PRECEDED
such disorders, but not uncommonly precipitated during sleep
replacement/recovery. Stress, obviously, mobilizes the body to
respond with physiologic arousal
(via sympathetic nervous sytem mechanisms) to maintain performance
in spite of
the stress. During recovery, sympathetic responses give way to
parasympathetic arousal to reinstate digestion and assimilation
for nutrition, increased
clotting for vascular repair, inflammation and congestion to heal
vascular, mucus
and joint membranes. (Just simple YING/YANG!) Disorders appearing
during
“recovery,” included gastrointestinal hyperactivity/acidity
(ulcers,
gastro-esophageal reflux, diarrhea, etc.) and thrombosis (coronary
occlusions,
thrombophlebitis with pulmonary embolism/infarction, arterial
thrombosis-mesenteric
occlusion/cerebral artery strokes) and infection at sites previous
dormant during
stress (pneumonia, dental and skin abscesses, etc.)
In addition, gastro-esophageal reflux is known to lead to
aspiration of
acidic stomach contents into the lungs, causing “asthma-like”
symptoms and
sometimes sudden death (e.g. Reggie White of Green Bay Packer
fame).
IF, as I tend to theorize, the Ibogaine experience creates a
rapid
shifting from STRESS to RECOVERY of the brain, one might expect
the above
“Recovery” pheno-mena to occur precipitantly, making vascular
occlusions (coronaries,
strokes and phlebitis) possible, asthma and pneumonia due to
aspiration likely
and inflammatory HEALING responses to dental, skin, liver and
other sites of
dormant infection, bacterial or viral, common.
On the other hand, it is remarkable that IBOGAINE appears to
be as safe
as it does in such a compromised population as drug dependent
folks. At an
NIH brain storming session concerning IBOGAINE in Bethesda in
1995, I expressed
concern that 1) we would want to be very careful using Ibogaine in
the
elderly, who predictably would have subtle lesions in their body
“waiting” to be
dramatically “healed” by the “restoring” brain. This might
trigger thromboses,
inflammation and gastro-esophageal reflux/aspiration; and 2)
suggested that a
sleep specialist be intimately involved in the research of
Ibogaine. I continue
to suggest these same elements.
I also “theorize” that the psychedelic experience triggered
by Ibogaine
dramatically RESTORES needed REM-Stage Sleep, in addicts who have
a very
severe deprivation state of REM Sleep due to their habit. All the
drugs of
“addiction” deprive the brain of or suppress REM-Stage Sleep,
indeed almost all
current psychiatric drugs do ALSO. The exceptions to this REM
depriving effect are
the PSYCHEDELICS (mescaline, soma, LSD and ayahuasca) ! ! !
To rapidly reverse “withdrawal,” stop “craving” in its tracks
and
provide a mystical, often psychotherapeutic, effect, is certainly
a dramatic
“HEALING” effect on the brain, giving the brain the opportunity to
potentiate healing
of the body. But most physicians realize the “rapid healing” of
the body can
be dangerous and lethal, when thromboses occur, fever rises to
107 degrees,
or congestion overwhelms the lungs or infection raises the body’s
defenses to
the point of vascular shock, intra-vascular coagulation, etc.
Any reactions by our audience? Ed Friedrichs, M.D.,
Brown Deer, WI
Concerned about your privacy? Instantly send FREE secure email, no account required
http://www.hushmail.com/send?l=480
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https://www.hushssl.com?l=485
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
Yahoo! FareChase – Search multiple travel sites in one click.
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: [Ibogaine] RE: ibogaine and REM
Date: November 14, 2005 at 12:50:02 PM EST
To: <Edfriedrichs@aol.com>
Cc: “Ibogaine Mindvox” <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
—–Original Message—–
From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com [mailto:Edfriedrichs@aol.com]
Sent: 14 November 2005 04:56
To: nick227@tiscali.co.uk
Subject: Thanx, Nick!
Appreciate your interest and comments.  Love your repeated poetic metaphor of “underground!”  To make the “awareness” sound a little more “scientific,” consider the possibility that dreaming (REM-Stage Sleep) provides that awareness, IF we get enough of it!  Carl Jung, an eminent dream analyst, would certainly agree with us.  As confusing as dreams can be (mine are unanalysable!), they do seem to “heal” the slings and arrows of the day.  For all we know, dreaming enough may contribute to the creative “Aha” ideas we get during the day that come from “nowhere.”  Others hypothesize that when we go deeply into “ourselves,” e.i. mystic states produced by meditation, religious probing, etc., we do “find” God, or better known as THE source of truth, wisdom, humility and forgiveness.  Whadda ya think?  Since NREM Stage Sleep occurs mainly early in the night, and REM-Stage Sleep occurs later toward morning, when we shorten our sleep habits to six, five or four hours, we primarily lose REM Sleep.  All the drugs of addiction (not to mention most all psychiatric medica-tions!) ALSO suppress REM-Sleep, leaving drug dependent folks severely deprived of REM-Sleep. Almost too easy an explanation!  Appreciatively, Dr. Ed
Hi Ed,
Thanks for the feedback. I would certainly agree that frequently dreams appear to integrate and thus reduce the emotional charge of some situations playing on the psyche. About going in generally, and mystical stuff, I’ve always been a bit of the opinion that dreams are essentially pretty superficial things and that the dreamstate isn’t in itself a particularly deep or mystical state of consciousness. I could be wrong. I guess, traditionally, “God” seems to be regarded more likely to appear through meditation than in dreamstates.
About the REM sleep of early morning, I find it hard to decide whether losing it is actually a good or bad thing. It is not clear for me. For sure, we all like to have a good night’s rest and feel calm and ready for the forthcoming day. However, in my therapist role, it is frequently evident that reducing participant’s sleep in weekend therapy groups brings them more into their feelings and that this is useful in helping them become more aware of their own internal processes and release internal tensions. This seems to me to relate to ibogaine treatment in that those who’ve done ibogaine frequently relate that they have trouble sleeping for a period afterwards. The implication, to my mind, is that morning REM sleep might be useful in resolving current emotional issues at a superficial level, but that a more profound resolution can be had through REM deprivation and some form of integrative process (therapy). Thus, the drug is attempting to deepen its issue-resolving work through giving some people REM deprivation. A few thoughts. What do you think?
I’ll cc this to the ibogaine as there might be people also interested in REM and ibogaine there. Hope you don’t mind.
All the best
Nick
From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:  Ibogaine fatalities:
Date: November 14, 2005 at 11:09:53 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Also rootbark extract seemed much harsher than ibogaine (soaked in
vodka and lime, alcohol evaporated). Although this is
impressionistic since the dose was unknown, and probably very high
though vomited before full onset. Indra’s effect on the stomach was
closer to ibogaine, owing to not using water in the extraction
according to its maker.
I have noticed that MAO inhibitors like P. harmala, ayahuasca vine,
and St. John’s Wort seem to neutralise stomach acid, and P. harmala
seemed to help me to hold down a 10 mg/kg dose the one time I have
tried it.
When I vomited during onset the experience tailed off immediately.
On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 06:48:01 -0800 shelley krupa
<skrupa20022002@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi All ,I’m interested in this thread myself, hmm the ibogaine
assoc Md told me that ibogaine is a very harsh drug, it certainly
has been harsh on my intestines every time (4), he told me it is
very harsh on the liver as well. I’m inclined to believe that
until the nor ibogaine settles in some, that in the very early
stages after a treatment we are dealing with alot of side effects,
i dont think that alot of the healing stuff we love so much starts
the minute we ingest ,minus the ultimate miracle of detox,of
course. My sleep never improved right away, even when i did
ibogaine for spiritual trip, that is- a non detox trip.thanks to
you all,shelley
Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:I went through a period of
time where I would have a lot of stomach ache and had to et
rennies. I wasn’t sure what brought that on. I thought it was the
HCL. Is that part of the healing response?
Lee
slowone@hush.ai wrote:
An early and very traumatic ibogaine experience interrupted a
pattern of diminished sleep for me: 4-6 hours a night went to 8
hours for a significant period (several years later it’s more like
6-7). The stomach acidity can be intense, like a sunburn.
To Nick: mimosa hostilis rootbark is an alternative source of DMT
for ayahuasca, but isn’t much different than the normal leafy
sources of DMT, so on that ground alone I wouldn’t think that
where
an entheogen comes from in a plant is a big factor in its action.
Still, it’s interesting to philosophise 🙂
On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 09:07:21 -0800 Edfriedrichs@aol.com wrote:
As an Internal Medicine specialist for forty years and an
addiction
specialist for the final twelve years of my career, I was most
fascinated by observing
sleep changes prior to the onset AND during recovery of
behavioral
and
physical disorders. It appeared to me that sleep
impairment/deprivation PRECEDED
such disorders, but not uncommonly precipitated during sleep
replacement/recovery. Stress, obviously, mobilizes the body to
respond with physiologic arousal
(via sympathetic nervous sytem mechanisms) to maintain
performance
in spite of
the stress. During recovery, sympathetic responses give way to
parasympathetic arousal to reinstate digestion and assimilation
for nutrition, increased
clotting for vascular repair, inflammation and congestion to heal
vascular, mucus
and joint membranes. (Just simple YING/YANG!) Disorders appearing
during
“recovery,” included gastrointestinal hyperactivity/acidity
(ulcers,
gastro-esophageal reflux, diarrhea, etc.) and thrombosis
(coronary
occlusions,
thrombophlebitis with pulmonary embolism/infarction, arterial
thrombosis-mesenteric
occlusion/cerebral artery strokes) and infection at sites
previous
dormant during
stress (pneumonia, dental and skin abscesses, etc.)
In addition, gastro-esophageal reflux is known to lead to
aspiration of
acidic stomach contents into the lungs, causing “asthma-like”
symptoms and
sometimes sudden death (e.g. Reggie White of Green Bay Packer
fame).
IF, as I tend to theorize, the Ibogaine experience creates a
rapid
shifting from STRESS to RECOVERY of the brain, one might expect
the above
“Recovery” pheno-mena to occur precipitantly, making vascular
occlusions (coronaries,
strokes and phlebitis) possible, asthma and pneumonia due to
aspiration likely
and inflammatory HEALING responses to dental, skin, liver and
other sites of
dormant infection, bacterial or viral, common.
On the other hand, it is remarkable that IBOGAINE appears to
be as safe
as it does in such a compromised population as drug dependent
folks. At an
NIH brain storming session concerning IBOGAINE in Bethesda in
1995, I expressed
concern that 1) we would want to be very careful using Ibogaine
in
the
elderly, who predictably would have subtle lesions in their body
“waiting” to be
dramatically “healed” by the “restoring” brain. This might
trigger thromboses,
inflammation and gastro-esophageal reflux/aspiration; and 2)
suggested that a
sleep specialist be intimately involved in the research of
Ibogaine. I continue
to suggest these same elements.
I also “theorize” that the psychedelic experience triggered
by Ibogaine
dramatically RESTORES needed REM-Stage Sleep, in addicts who have
a very
severe deprivation state of REM Sleep due to their habit. All the
drugs of
“addiction” deprive the brain of or suppress REM-Stage Sleep,
indeed almost all
current psychiatric drugs do ALSO. The exceptions to this REM
depriving effect are
the PSYCHEDELICS (mescaline, soma, LSD and ayahuasca) ! ! !
To rapidly reverse “withdrawal,” stop “craving” in its tracks
and
provide a mystical, often psychotherapeutic, effect, is certainly
a dramatic
“HEALING” effect on the brain, giving the brain the opportunity
to
potentiate healing
of the body. But most physicians realize the “rapid healing” of
the body can
be dangerous and lethal, when thromboses occur, fever rises to
107 degrees,
or congestion overwhelms the lungs or infection raises the body’s
defenses to
the point of vascular shock, intra-vascular coagulation, etc.
Any reactions by our audience? Ed Friedrichs, M.D.,
Brown Deer, WI
Concerned about your privacy? Instantly send FREE secure email, no
account required
http://www.hushmail.com/send?l=480
Get the best prices on SSL certificates from Hushmail
https://www.hushssl.com?l=485
/]=—————————————————————-
—–=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=—————————————————————-
—–=[/
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine
over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing
Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list
for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
———————————
Yahoo! FareChase – Search multiple travel sites in one click.
Concerned about your privacy? Instantly send FREE secure email, no account required
http://www.hushmail.com/send?l=480
Get the best prices on SSL certificates from Hushmail
https://www.hushssl.com?l=485
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 \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Fwd: FW: Warning… Please forward to everybody
Date: November 14, 2005 at 10:52:22 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
99.99% of these warnings *are* the virus – a mental virus if you
will -and they can be destructive when they direct you to remove a
system file. So with or without xandros these warnings can be a
pain (and embarrassing for the poor friend or relative, especially
if they fall for it repeatedly). Awfully Nice that it isn’t often
enough to annoy you 🙂 and in fact very sweet that you enjoy your
friends so much. But think of poor Day Brown, safely unique, well-
read, very helpful, but thinking no one cares, and then this… 🙂
thanks Day… do you ever find xandros coming up a bit short for
your needs? I imagine one would have to have a 2nd machine or dual-
boot windoz for intensive programs like games and photoshop.
On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 04:35:13 -0800 Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
wrote:
Well to be honest, your’s was the first Winj I ever heard about
someone
trying to do good and warning people about a potentially dangerous
virus.
Doesn’t happen often enough to me to be annoying and if a friend
is tryhing
to warn me, it usually means they at least care. Geeee nice isnt’
it????
But if you got xandros then your caring friends are just a pain in
the
ass!!!
Awwww
Sad, never mind
Kirk
—–Original Message—–
From: Day Brown [mailto:daybrown@artelco.com]
Sent: Monday, 14 November 2005 11:09 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: FW: Warning… Please forward to
everybody
Kirk wrote:
How Awfully Nice For you.
How About Ejacating us Ignorant Pions as to what Xandros is,
where to get
it, what it does so we can get annoyed with you……..
Frankly, I didnt think anyone was all that interested. My mailbox
gets
filled from these virus warnings from all sortsa places every day.
I
dunno why you windoz users arent annoyed with it either, or looked
for
other ways of coping with it, and tired of installing patches.
There’s *lots* of info on Xandros from google if you were annoyed
enuf
to look for an alternative. but to save you the trouble. Xandros
is a
Linux distribution that includes drivers that let it run windoz
software
and accesses all the windoz drives.
Comes with Mozilla and firebird so that surfing can be virtually
identical to the windoz user. During installation, it asks if you
want
the GUI interface setup to operate like windoz, Mac, or Linux.
I just read this morning that Xandros 4 will be out in Dec, so I’d
surf
around a bit tracking this down before deciding to get Xandros 2
or 3.
I dunno what the diffs are or mite be.
Xandros is unique among the other 10 distros that I’ve seen. It
uses the
drivers from the earlier Corel version of Debian. Corel has been
writing
software for the PC for 20 years, and has produced some of the
best code
that I’ve seen, which has made it popular. Corel also composed the
clearest Linux user manual that I’ve seen, no doubt part of their
long
experience on writing manuals for all their other apps. And now
Xandros
has just brought out a new manual… but I dunno yet if that too
was
licensed by Corel.
Unlike windoz, you dont have that long registration number to copy
off
the certificate to install. Xandros just goes ahead; but unlike
other
Linux distros, it then dont ask a buncha obscure questions about
what
video card, monitor, mouse, or whatever you have. It just figures
out
what you have, and then runs it no questions asked. Like Corel
did. And
finally, unlike windoz, it dont *ever* ask you to dig out the
install
disk and/or input that damned number if you upgrade hardware. It
just
stops during boot, sees what it is, and installs it. [that’s a
period].
Ditto for stuff like Nero; just pop the CD in the drive, and it
goes
ahead and installs it, the win app dont even know it aint being
done
by windoz. Win apps take longer to load, but work the same. More
Linux
apps are showing up all that time that load faster and dont crash.
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From: shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:  Ibogaine fatalities:
Date: November 14, 2005 at 9:48:01 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi All ,I’m interested in this thread myself, hmm the ibogaine assoc Md told me that ibogaine is a very harsh drug, it certainly has been harsh on my intestines every time (4), he told me it is very harsh on the liver as well. I’m inclined to believe that until the nor ibogaine settles in some, that in the very early stages after a treatment we are dealing with alot of side effects, i dont think that alot of the healing stuff we love so much starts the minute we ingest ,minus the ultimate miracle of detox,of course. My sleep never improved right away, even when i did ibogaine for spiritual trip, that is- a non detox trip.thanks to you all,shelley
Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
I went through a period of time where I would have a lot of stomach ache and had to et rennies. I wasn’t sure what brought that on. I thought it was the HCL. Is that part of the healing response?
Lee
slowone@hush.ai wrote:
An early and very traumatic ibogaine experience interrupted a
pattern of diminished sleep for me: 4-6 hours a night went to 8
hours for a significant period (several years later it’s more like
6-7). The stomach acidity can be intense, like a sunburn.
To Nick: mimosa hostilis rootbark is an alternative source of DMT
for ayahuasca, but isn’t much different than the normal leafy
sources of DMT, so on that ground alone I wouldn’t think that where
an entheogen comes from in a plant is a big factor in its action.
Still, it’s interesting to philosophise 🙂
On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 09:07:21 -0800 Edfriedrichs@aol.com wrote:
>As an Internal Medicine specialist for forty years and an
>addiction
>specialist for the final twelve years of my career, I was most
>fascinated by observing
>sleep changes prior to the onset AND during recovery of behavioral
>and
>physical disorders. It appeared to me that sleep
>impairment/deprivation PRECEDED
>such disorders, but not uncommonly precipitated during sleep
>replacement/recovery. Stress, obviously, mobilizes the body to
>respond with physiologic arousal
>(via sympathetic nervous sytem mechanisms) to maintain performance
>in spite of
>the stress. During recovery, sympathetic responses give way to
>parasympathetic arousal to reinstate digestion and assimilation
>for nutrition, increased
>clotting for vascular repair, inflammation and congestion to heal
>vascular, mucus
>and joint membranes. (Just simple YING/YANG!) Disorders appearing
>during
>”recovery,” included gastrointestinal hyperactivity/acidity
>(ulcers,
>gastro-esophageal reflux, diarrhea, etc.) and thrombosis (coronary
>occlusions,
>thrombophlebitis with pulmonary embolism/infarction, arterial
>thrombosis-mesenteric
>occlusion/cerebral artery strokes) and infection at sites previous
>dormant during
>stress (pneumonia, dental and skin abscesses, etc.)
> In addition, gastro-esophageal reflux is known to lead to
>aspiration of
>acidic stomach contents into the lungs, causing “asthma-like”
>symptoms and
>sometimes sudden death (e.g. Reggie White of Green Bay Packer
>fame).
> IF, as I tend to theorize, the Ibogaine experience creates a
>rapid
>shifting from STRESS to RECOVERY of the brain, one might expect
>the above
>”Recovery” pheno-mena to occur precipitantly, making vascular
>occlusions (coronaries,
>strokes and phlebitis) possible, asthma and pneumonia due to
>aspiration likely
>and inflammatory HEALING responses to dental, skin, liver and
>other sites of
>dormant infection, bacterial or viral, common.
> On the other hand, it is remarkable that IBOGAINE appears to
>be as safe
>as it does in such a compromised population as drug dependent
>folks. At an
>NIH brain storming session concerning IBOGAINE in Bethesda in
>1995, I expressed
>concern that 1) we would want to be very careful using Ibogaine in
>the
>elderly, who predictably would have subtle lesions in their body
>”waiting” to be
>dramatically “healed” by the “restoring” brain. This might
>trigger thromboses,
>inflammation and gastro-esophageal reflux/aspiration; and 2)
>suggested that a
>sleep specialist be intimately involved in the research of
>Ibogaine. I continue
>to suggest these same elements.
> I also “theorize” that the psychedelic experience triggered
>by Ibogaine
>dramatically RESTORES needed REM-Stage Sleep, in addicts who have
>a very
>severe deprivation state of REM Sleep due to their habit. All the
>drugs of
>”addiction” deprive the brain of or suppress REM-Stage Sleep,
>indeed almost all
>current psychiatric drugs do ALSO. The exceptions to this REM
>depriving effect are
>the PSYCHEDELICS (mescaline, soma, LSD and ayahuasca) ! ! !
> To rapidly reverse “withdrawal,” stop “craving” in its tracks
>and
>provide a mystical, often psychotherapeutic, effect, is certainly
>a dramatic
>”HEALING” effect on the brain, giving the brain the opportunity to
>potentiate healing
>of the body. But most physicians realize the “rapid healing” of
>the body can
>be dangerous and lethal, when thromboses occur, fever rises to
>107 degrees,
>or congestion overwhelms the lungs or infection raises the body’s
>defenses to
>the point of vascular shock, intra-vascular coagulation, etc.
> Any reactions by our audience? Ed Friedrichs, M.D.,
>Brown Deer, WI
Concerned about your privacy? Instantly send FREE secure email, no account required
http://www.hushmail.com/send?l=480
Get the best prices on SSL certificates from Hushmail
https://www.hushssl.com?l=485
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
Yahoo! FareChase – Search multiple travel sites in one click.
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Fwd: FW: Warning… Please forward to everybody
Date: November 14, 2005 at 7:35:13 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Well to be honest, your’s was the first Winj I ever heard about someone
trying to do good and warning people about a potentially dangerous virus.
Doesn’t happen often enough to me to be annoying and if a friend is tryhing
to warn me, it usually means they at least care. Geeee nice isnt’ it????
But if you got xandros then your caring friends are just a pain in the
ass!!!
Awwww
Sad, never mind
Kirk
—–Original Message—–
From: Day Brown [mailto:daybrown@artelco.com]
Sent: Monday, 14 November 2005 11:09 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: FW: Warning… Please forward to everybody
Kirk wrote:
How Awfully Nice For you.
How About Ejacating us Ignorant Pions as to what Xandros is, where to get
it, what it does so we can get annoyed with you……..
Frankly, I didnt think anyone was all that interested. My mailbox gets
filled from these virus warnings from all sortsa places every day. I
dunno why you windoz users arent annoyed with it either, or looked for
other ways of coping with it, and tired of installing patches.
There’s *lots* of info on Xandros from google if you were annoyed enuf
to look for an alternative. but to save you the trouble. Xandros is a
Linux distribution that includes drivers that let it run windoz software
and accesses all the windoz drives.
Comes with Mozilla and firebird so that surfing can be virtually
identical to the windoz user. During installation, it asks if you want
the GUI interface setup to operate like windoz, Mac, or Linux.
I just read this morning that Xandros 4 will be out in Dec, so I’d surf
around a bit tracking this down before deciding to get Xandros 2 or 3.
I dunno what the diffs are or mite be.
Xandros is unique among the other 10 distros that I’ve seen. It uses the
drivers from the earlier Corel version of Debian. Corel has been writing
software for the PC for 20 years, and has produced some of the best code
that I’ve seen, which has made it popular. Corel also composed the
clearest Linux user manual that I’ve seen, no doubt part of their long
experience on writing manuals for all their other apps. And now Xandros
has just brought out a new manual… but I dunno yet if that too was
licensed by Corel.
Unlike windoz, you dont have that long registration number to copy off
the certificate to install. Xandros just goes ahead; but unlike other
Linux distros, it then dont ask a buncha obscure questions about what
video card, monitor, mouse, or whatever you have. It just figures out
what you have, and then runs it no questions asked. Like Corel did. And
finally, unlike windoz, it dont *ever* ask you to dig out the install
disk and/or input that damned number if you upgrade hardware. It just
stops during boot, sees what it is, and installs it. [that’s a period].
Ditto for stuff like Nero; just pop the CD in the drive, and it goes
ahead and installs it, the win app dont even know it aint being done
by windoz. Win apps take longer to load, but work the same. More Linux
apps are showing up all that time that load faster and dont crash.
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
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[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
 \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:  Ibogaine fatalities:
Date: November 14, 2005 at 7:00:14 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I went through a period of time where I would have a lot of stomach ache and had to et rennies. I wasn’t sure what brought that on. I thought it was the HCL. Is that part of the healing response?
Lee
slowone@hush.ai wrote:
An early and very traumatic ibogaine experience interrupted a
pattern of diminished sleep for me: 4-6 hours a night went to 8
hours for a significant period (several years later it’s more like
6-7). The stomach acidity can be intense, like a sunburn.
To Nick: mimosa hostilis rootbark is an alternative source of DMT
for ayahuasca, but isn’t much different than the normal leafy
sources of DMT, so on that ground alone I wouldn’t think that where
an entheogen comes from in a plant is a big factor in its action.
Still, it’s interesting to philosophise 🙂
On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 09:07:21 -0800 Edfriedrichs@aol.com wrote:
>As an Internal Medicine specialist for forty years and an
>addiction
>specialist for the final twelve years of my career, I was most
>fascinated by observing
>sleep changes prior to the onset AND during recovery of behavioral
>and
>physical disorders. It appeared to me that sleep
>impairment/deprivation PRECEDED
>such disorders, but not uncommonly precipitated during sleep
>replacement/recovery. Stress, obviously, mobilizes the body to
>respond with physiologic arousal
>(via sympathetic nervous sytem mechanisms) to maintain performance
>in spite of
>the stress. During recovery, sympathetic responses give way to
>parasympathetic arousal to reinstate digestion and assimilation
>for nutrition, increased
>clotting for vascular repair, inflammation and congestion to heal
>vascular, mucus
>and joint membranes. (Just simple YING/YANG!) Disorders appearing
>during
>”recovery,” included gastrointestinal hyperactivity/acidity
>(ulcers,
>gastro-esophageal reflux, diarrhea, etc.) and thrombosis (coronary
>occlusions,
>thrombophlebitis with pulmonary embolism/infarction, arterial
>thrombosis-mesenteric
>occlusion/cerebral artery strokes) and infection at sites previous
>dormant during
>stress (pneumonia, dental and skin abscesses, etc.)
> In addition, gastro-esophageal reflux is known to lead to
>aspiration of
>acidic stomach contents into the lungs, causing “asthma-like”
>symptoms and
>sometimes sudden death (e.g. Reggie White of Green Bay Packer
>fame).
> IF, as I tend to theorize, the Ibogaine experience creates a
>rapid
>shifting from STRESS to RECOVERY of the brain, one might expect
>the above
>”Recovery” pheno-mena to occur precipitantly, making vascular
>occlusions (coronaries,
>strokes and phlebitis) possible, asthma and pneumonia due to
>aspiration likely
>and inflammatory HEALING responses to dental, skin, liver and
>other sites of
>dormant infection, bacterial or viral, common.
> On the other hand, it is remarkable that IBOGAINE appears to
>be as safe
>as it does in such a compromised population as drug dependent
>folks. At an
>NIH brain storming session concerning IBOGAINE in Bethesda in
>1995, I expressed
>concern that 1) we would want to be very careful using Ibogaine in
>the
>elderly, who predictably would have subtle lesions in their body
>”waiting” to be
>dramatically “healed” by the “restoring” brain. This might
>trigger thromboses,
>inflammation and gastro-esophageal reflux/aspiration; and 2)
>suggested that a
>sleep specialist be intimately involved in the research of
>Ibogaine. I continue
>to suggest these same elements.
> I also “theorize” that the psychedelic experience triggered
>by Ibogaine
>dramatically RESTORES needed REM-Stage Sleep, in addicts who have
>a very
>severe deprivation state of REM Sleep due to their habit. All the
>drugs of
>”addiction” deprive the brain of or suppress REM-Stage Sleep,
>indeed almost all
>current psychiatric drugs do ALSO. The exceptions to this REM
>depriving effect are
>the PSYCHEDELICS (mescaline, soma, LSD and ayahuasca) ! ! !
> To rapidly reverse “withdrawal,” stop “craving” in its tracks
>and
>provide a mystical, often psychotherapeutic, effect, is certainly
>a dramatic
>”HEALING” effect on the brain, giving the brain the opportunity to
>potentiate healing
>of the body. But most physicians realize the “rapid healing” of
>the body can
>be dangerous and lethal, when thromboses occur, fever rises to
>107 degrees,
>or congestion overwhelms the lungs or infection raises the body’s
>defenses to
>the point of vascular shock, intra-vascular coagulation, etc.
> Any reactions by our audience? Ed Friedrichs, M.D.,
>Brown Deer, WI
Concerned about your privacy? Instantly send FREE secure email, no account required
http://www.hushmail.com/send?l=480
Get the best prices on SSL certificates from Hushmail
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/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:  Ibogaine fatalities:
Date: November 13, 2005 at 8:04:15 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
An early and very traumatic ibogaine experience interrupted a
pattern of diminished sleep for me: 4-6 hours a night went to 8
hours for a significant period (several years later it’s more like
6-7). The stomach acidity can be intense, like a sunburn.
To Nick: mimosa hostilis rootbark is an alternative source of DMT
for ayahuasca, but isn’t much different than the normal leafy
sources of DMT, so on that ground alone I wouldn’t think that where
an entheogen comes from in a plant is a big factor in its action.
Still, it’s interesting to philosophise 🙂
On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 09:07:21 -0800 Edfriedrichs@aol.com wrote:
As an Internal Medicine specialist for forty years and an
addiction
specialist for the final twelve years of my career, I was most
fascinated by observing
sleep changes prior to the onset AND during recovery of behavioral
and
physical disorders.  It appeared to me that sleep
impairment/deprivation PRECEDED
such disorders, but not uncommonly precipitated during sleep
replacement/recovery.  Stress, obviously, mobilizes the body to
respond with physiologic arousal
(via sympathetic nervous sytem mechanisms) to maintain performance
in spite of
the stress.  During recovery, sympathetic responses give way to
parasympathetic arousal to reinstate digestion and assimilation
for nutrition, increased
clotting for vascular repair, inflammation and congestion to heal
vascular, mucus
and joint membranes. (Just simple YING/YANG!)  Disorders appearing
during
“recovery,” included gastrointestinal hyperactivity/acidity
(ulcers,
gastro-esophageal reflux, diarrhea, etc.) and thrombosis (coronary
occlusions,
thrombophlebitis with pulmonary embolism/infarction, arterial
thrombosis-mesenteric
occlusion/cerebral artery strokes) and infection at sites previous
dormant during
stress (pneumonia, dental and skin abscesses, etc.)
   In addition, gastro-esophageal reflux is known to lead to
aspiration of
acidic stomach contents into the lungs, causing “asthma-like”
symptoms and
sometimes sudden death (e.g. Reggie White of Green Bay Packer
fame).
   IF, as I tend to theorize, the Ibogaine experience creates a
rapid
shifting from STRESS to RECOVERY of the brain, one might expect
the above
“Recovery” pheno-mena to occur precipitantly, making vascular
occlusions (coronaries,
strokes and phlebitis) possible, asthma and pneumonia due to
aspiration likely
and inflammatory HEALING responses to dental, skin, liver and
other sites of
dormant infection, bacterial or viral, common.
   On the other hand, it is remarkable that IBOGAINE appears to
be as safe
as it does in such a compromised population as drug dependent
folks.  At an
NIH brain storming session concerning IBOGAINE in Bethesda in
1995, I expressed
concern that 1) we would want to be very careful using Ibogaine in
the
elderly, who predictably would have subtle lesions in their body
“waiting” to be
dramatically “healed” by the “restoring” brain.  This might
trigger thromboses,
inflammation and gastro-esophageal reflux/aspiration; and 2)
suggested that a
sleep specialist be intimately involved in the research of
Ibogaine.  I continue
to suggest these same elements.
   I also “theorize” that the psychedelic experience triggered
by Ibogaine
dramatically RESTORES needed REM-Stage Sleep, in addicts who have
a very
severe deprivation state of REM Sleep due to their habit.  All the
drugs of
“addiction” deprive the brain of or suppress REM-Stage Sleep,
indeed almost all
current psychiatric drugs do ALSO.  The exceptions to this REM
depriving effect are
the PSYCHEDELICS (mescaline, soma, LSD and ayahuasca) ! ! !
   To rapidly reverse “withdrawal,” stop “craving” in its tracks
and
provide a mystical, often psychotherapeutic, effect, is certainly
a dramatic
“HEALING” effect on the brain, giving the brain the opportunity to
potentiate healing
of the body.  But most physicians realize the “rapid healing” of
the body can
be dangerous and lethal, when  thromboses occur, fever rises to
107 degrees,
or congestion overwhelms the lungs or infection raises the body’s
defenses to
the point of vascular shock, intra-vascular coagulation, etc.
   Any reactions by our audience?      Ed Friedrichs, M.D.,
Brown Deer, WI
Concerned about your privacy? Instantly send FREE secure email, no account required
http://www.hushmail.com/send?l=480
Get the best prices on SSL certificates from Hushmail
https://www.hushssl.com?l=485
 /]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
 \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: Day Brown <daybrown@artelco.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: FW: Warning… Please forward to everybody
Date: November 13, 2005 at 5:09:28 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Kirk wrote:
How Awfully Nice For you.
How About Ejacating us Ignorant Pions as to what Xandros is, where to get
it, what it does so we can get annoyed with you……..
Frankly, I didnt think anyone was all that interested. My mailbox gets
filled from these virus warnings from all sortsa places every day. I
dunno why you windoz users arent annoyed with it either, or looked for
other ways of coping with it, and tired of installing patches.
There’s *lots* of info on Xandros from google if you were annoyed enuf
to look for an alternative. but to save you the trouble. Xandros is a
Linux distribution that includes drivers that let it run windoz software and accesses all the windoz drives.
Comes with Mozilla and firebird so that surfing can be virtually
identical to the windoz user. During installation, it asks if you want
the GUI interface setup to operate like windoz, Mac, or Linux.
I just read this morning that Xandros 4 will be out in Dec, so I’d surf
around a bit tracking this down before deciding to get Xandros 2 or 3.
I dunno what the diffs are or mite be.
Xandros is unique among the other 10 distros that I’ve seen. It uses the
drivers from the earlier Corel version of Debian. Corel has been writing
software for the PC for 20 years, and has produced some of the best code
that I’ve seen, which has made it popular. Corel also composed the
clearest Linux user manual that I’ve seen, no doubt part of their long
experience on writing manuals for all their other apps. And now Xandros
has just brought out a new manual… but I dunno yet if that too was
licensed by Corel.
Unlike windoz, you dont have that long registration number to copy off
the certificate to install. Xandros just goes ahead; but unlike other
Linux distros, it then dont ask a buncha obscure questions about what
video card, monitor, mouse, or whatever you have. It just figures out
what you have, and then runs it no questions asked. Like Corel did. And
finally, unlike windoz, it dont *ever* ask you to dig out the install
disk and/or input that damned number if you upgrade hardware. It just
stops during boot, sees what it is, and installs it. [that’s a period].
Ditto for stuff like Nero; just pop the CD in the drive, and it goes
ahead and installs it, the win app dont even know it aint being done
by windoz. Win apps take longer to load, but work the same. More Linux
apps are showing up all that time that load faster and dont crash.
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Seth on drugs and quite possibly iboga
Date: November 13, 2005 at 3:34:44 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
      Now, instead of the next massive dose, there are many people
who think that the next occult school will do it, or the next
religion, or the next political party, or the next new medicine, or
the next new wonder drug, or the next new improved god will all do
it. Excedrin will do it if you believe in it! Acid will do it if you
believe it. But you will do it if you believe it.
      And each person reading those passages will for himself see
what he has put up before himself, instead of himself – what beliefs,
what god, what product, what medicine man, what guru, what father,
what mother, (Pat interjected: “What diet!”) what diet, what vitamin,
and each reader will follow his own journey as he reads that chapter….
      The answers are within yourself – you simply have not
believed it. You have an ego because you are conscious. The ego is a
responsive part of yourself. It is not a stupid relative to be
shunted out of the way. And yet you look at it constantly and you
say, “You stupid thing, you know nothing – out you go! Let my pure
unconscious well up and give me the answers.”
      And so your life operates according to your beliefs. And
since you believe you do not have the answers, it does not seriously
occur to you to listen to yourself. You listen to your animus or your
anima or your shadow. But try listening to the self that you are in
all your remarkable unity. And then the answers are and they are a
part of you.
A couple of great quotes in this, hope you don’t mind me cutting, Matt. The first one particularly reminds me just how much I have previously given up my power in the belief that drugs or other “healing” fantasies were something I needed. I recall each time, before recommending anyone take iboga, just how little a drug actually can do and how, ultimately, how it is only the conscious “you”, the ego, that can take the decision to look, to feel, rather than to remain unconscious.
Thanks for posting
Nick
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: Ibogaine fatalities: Att. Dr. anyone
Date: November 13, 2005 at 3:07:08 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In a message dated 11/13/05 1:54:59 PM, BiscuitBoy714@aol.com writes:
Ok, I think it is obvious that sometimes people have problems with their heart during an Ibogaine treatment that would go undetected by an EKG. I’d like to know for curiosities sake what kind of treatment has ever been given to a person for heart problems during an Ibogaine session that was successful, and has anyone ever looked into Nitro Glycerin tablets, or am I way off base here? Would a defibulater have helped any of the people who died of heart related problems during an Ibogaine treatment? Was CPR given to those who died? Just wondering.              Randy
You can take a look at a synopsis of Dr. Kamlet’s report given during the New Orleans Harm Reduction conference, http://doraweiner.org/aatod_hrc.html#kamlet
Availability of this kind of information are representative of the services provided by the Dora Weiner Foundation from donations that have allowed our participation in conferences. That is a hint to provide needed donations to allow our participation in the Vancouver Conference.  See my prior message, “assistance requested”
Howard
From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT! Bauhaus
Date: November 13, 2005 at 2:48:05 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hey Jon
oh come on –songs of faith and devotion….:}}…black celebration is their best album in my opinion….however ultra or exciter– one of them– really blew me away especialy that one track– forgot the name –it goes”like a cat draged in from the rain i m going straight back out to do it all over again….ill be back for more …hah!! that is a cool fuken tune
i only heard two tracks from the new album and  i really liked them
should be a wiked concert
with love
matt
From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT! Bauhaus
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 13:35:46 -0500
matthew zielinski wrote:
>Hey b
>
>i cant wait for depeche mode!!….they will be here on dec 1….
>
>been listening to them for so long and never seem to get tired of
>them :]
>
>and the lyrics ohh the woefull melancholic lyrics combined with
>dave’s hypntoic voice :]
have ya heard their new album, Playing the Angel? I was a little skeptical before I heard it, cause I haven’t really dug anything they’ve done since Violator that much. but man, it’s a kick ass album.
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/
Get MSN Messenger with FREE Video Conversation – the next best thing to being there! /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Fwd: FW: Warning… Please forward to everybody
Date: November 13, 2005 at 2:09:07 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
How Awfully Nice For you.
How About Ejacating us Ignorant Pions as to what Xandros is, where to get
it, what it does so we can get annoyed with you……..
K
—–Original Message—–
From: Day Brown [mailto:daybrown@artelco.com]
Sent: Monday, 14 November 2005 8:32 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: FW: Warning… Please forward to everybody
I use Xandros; it runs the windoz apps if need be. I dont worry about
windoz viruses, and get kinda annoyed at the way the warning messages
about it keep filling up my email.
My condolences for the rest of you.
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
 /]=———————————————————————=[\
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 \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: Ibogaine fatalities: Att. Dr. anyone
Date: November 13, 2005 at 1:54:47 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Ok, I think it is obvious that sometimes people have problems with their heart during an Ibogaine treatment that would go undetected by an EKG. I’d like to know for curiosities sake what kind of treatment has ever been given to a person for heart problems during an Ibogaine session that was successful, and has anyone ever looked into Nitro Glycerin tablets, or am I way off base here? Would a defibulater have helped any of the people who died of heart related problems during an Ibogaine treatment? Was CPR given to those who died? Just wondering.              Randy
From: Day Brown <daybrown@artelco.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: FW: Warning… Please forward to everybody
Date: November 13, 2005 at 2:32:14 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I use Xandros; it runs the windoz apps if need be. I dont worry about
windoz viruses, and get kinda annoyed at the way the warning messages
about it keep filling up my email.
My condolences for the rest of you.
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT! Bauhaus
Date: November 13, 2005 at 1:35:46 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
matthew zielinski wrote:
Hey b
i cant wait for depeche mode!!….they will be here on dec 1….
been listening to them for so long and never seem to get tired of them :]
and the lyrics ohh the woefull melancholic lyrics combined with dave’s hypntoic voice :]
have ya heard their new album, Playing the Angel? I was a little skeptical before I heard it, cause I haven’t really dug anything they’ve done since Violator that much. but man, it’s a kick ass album.
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re:  Ibogaine fatalities:
Date: November 13, 2005 at 12:38:03 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
—–Original Message—–
From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com [mailto:Edfriedrichs@aol.com]
Sent: 11 November 2005 17:07
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: Ibogaine fatalities:
As an Internal Medicine specialist for forty years and an addiction specialist for the final twelve years of my career, I was most fascinated by observing sleep changes prior to the onset AND during recovery of behavioral and physical disorders.  It appeared to me that sleep impairment/deprivation PRECEDED such disorders, but not uncommonly precipitated during sleep replacement/recovery.  Stress, obviously, mobilizes the body to respond with physiologic arousal (via sympathetic nervous sytem mechanisms) to maintain performance in spite of the stress.  During recovery, sympathetic responses give way to parasympathetic arousal to reinstate digestion and assimilation for nutrition, increased clotting for vascular repair, inflammation and congestion to heal vascular, mucus and joint membranes. (Just simple YING/YANG!)  Disorders appearing during “recovery,” included gastrointestinal hyperactivity/acidity (ulcers, gastro-esophageal reflux, diarrhea, etc.) and thrombosis (coronary occlusions, thrombophlebitis with pulmonary embolism/infarction, arterial thrombosis-mesenteric occlusion/cerebral artery strokes) and infection at sites previous dormant during stress (pneumonia, dental and skin abscesses, etc.)
     In addition, gastro-esophageal reflux is known to lead to aspiration of acidic stomach contents into the lungs, causing “asthma-like” symptoms and sometimes sudden death (e.g. Reggie White of Green Bay Packer fame).
Dear Ed,
Many thanks for such an exciting post. Many interesting ideas and threads and all compressed into a readable space.
Relating to “gastro-oesophagal reflux,” it’s interesting that this was the mechanism of death for one ibogaine-related fatality, if I recall correctly. JW died exactly like this some 38 hours after taking 6g of iboga extract for long-term opiate dependency back in Jan 2000 in London. He was very briefly unattended in the bathroom after eating a sandwich.
     IF, as I tend to theorize, the Ibogaine experience creates a rapid shifting from STRESS to RECOVERY of the brain, one might expect the above “Recovery” pheno-mena to occur precipitantly, making vascular occlusions (coronaries, strokes and phlebitis) possible, asthma and pneumonia due to aspiration likely and inflammatory HEALING responses to dental, skin, liver and other sites of dormant infection, bacterial or viral, common.
     On the other hand, it is remarkable that IBOGAINE appears to be as safe as it does in such a compromised population as drug dependent folks.
Yes, this also has struck me. I guess the innate self-knowledge that ibogaine puts us in touch with generally allows healing reactions to be mediated relatively safely. Perhaps not the most scientific explanation. However, for some, it appears that the drug does let them go. It’s often struck me that ibogaine’s essentially “subterranean” energy may be a factor here. Unlike many other psychoactives it grows underground, being found most strongly in the bark of the root. It often seems to spread knowledge of itself through dreams (see Ferdinand’s study in Gabon), the manifestation of the upper layers of unconsciousness, analogous to the upper layers of soil, and of course it uses dreamlike visions to facilitate communication between the conscious and unconscious mind. Socially and culturally, it also remains an “underground” drug.
Of course, the drug, psychologically, is essentially awareness-raising, but to me there still seems to be this slight contradiction in its action – that it’s a subterranean drug, and yet it wants to raise awareness. Perhaps somewhere the piper still needs to be paid every now and again and these infrequent deaths occur. Again, nothing much very scientific in all this!
  At an NIH brain storming session concerning IBOGAINE in Bethesda in 1995, I expressed concern that 1) we would want to be very careful using Ibogaine in the elderly, who predictably would have subtle lesions in their body “waiting” to be dramatically “healed” by the “restoring” brain.  This might trigger thromboses, inflammation and gastro-esophageal reflux/aspiration; and 2) suggested that a sleep specialist be intimately involved in the research of Ibogaine.  I continue to suggest these same elements.
     I also “theorize” that the psychedelic experience triggered by Ibogaine dramatically RESTORES needed REM-Stage Sleep, in addicts who have a very severe deprivation state of REM Sleep due to their habit.  All the drugs of “addiction” deprive the brain of or suppress REM-Stage Sleep, indeed almost all current psychiatric drugs do ALSO.  The exceptions to this REM depriving effect are the PSYCHEDELICS (mescaline, soma, LSD and ayahuasca) ! ! !
Do you have thoughts about Carl Anderson’s theories around REM and addiction?
All the best
Nick
     To rapidly reverse “withdrawal,” stop “craving” in its tracks and provide a mystical, often psychotherapeutic, effect, is certainly a dramatic “HEALING” effect on the brain, giving the brain the opportunity to potentiate healing of the body.  But most physicians realize the “rapid healing” of the body can be dangerous and lethal, when  thromboses occur, fever rises to 107 degrees, or congestion overwhelms the lungs or infection raises the body’s defenses to the point of vascular shock, intra-vascular coagulation, etc.
     Any reactions by our audience?      Ed Friedrichs, M.D., Brown Deer, WI
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: Ibogaine fatalities:
Date: November 13, 2005 at 11:18:59 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In a message Ed wrote
in Bethesda in 1995, I expressed concern that 1) we would want to be very careful using Ibogaine in the elderly, who predictably would have subtle lesions in their body “waiting” to be dramatically “healed” by the “restoring” brain.  This might trigger thromboses, inflammation and gastro-esophageal reflux/aspiration; and 2) suggested that a sleep specialist be intimately involved in the research of Ibogaine.  I continue to suggest these same elements.
    I also “theorize” that the psychedelic experience triggered by Ibogaine dramatically RESTORES needed REM-Stage Sleep, in addicts who have a very severe deprivation state of REM Sleep due to their habit.  All the drugs of “addiction” deprive the brain of or suppress REM-Stage Sleep, indeed almost all current psychiatric drugs do ALSO.  The exceptions to this REM depriving effect are the PSYCHEDELICS (mescaline, soma, LSD and ayahuasca) ! ! !
    To rapidly reverse “withdrawal,” stop “craving” in its tracks and provide a mystical, often psychotherapeutic, effect, is certainly a dramatic “HEALING” effect on the brain, giving the brain the opportunity to potentiate healing of the body.  But most physicians realize the “rapid healing” of the body can be dangerous and lethal, when  thromboses occur, fever rises to 107 degrees, or congestion overwhelms the lungs or infection raises the body’s defenses to the point of vascular shock, intra-vascular coagulation, etc.
    Any reactions by our audience?      Ed Friedrichs, M.D., Brown Deer, WI
I find this very interesting. I can see that some of these things could occur in a few but are you saying these healing effects are happening with everyone, and only the people with a very compromised immune system will have problems? I think you are dead on with your suggestion to have sleep specialists look into Ibogaine. Love and laughter         Randy
From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re: Ibogaine fatalities:
Date: November 13, 2005 at 10:37:19 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Ed,
Very interesting. If I understand you correctly you are saying that the rapid healing mechanism of ibogaine can precipitate adverse effects in someone with compromised heart function for example and hence we see someone a few days after treatment suffering from a critical condition leading to death?
Lee
matthew zielinski <mattzielinski@hotmail.com> wrote:
I can certainly attest to majority of the symptons listed below after undergoing my first treament for opiates/methadone/benzos.
Out of nowhere my heart sack become infected causing tremendous pain, my ulcers returned and complications with my pancreas left me a in great deal of suffering.  I was also afflicted with sudden allergic outbursts that left me sneezing and snifling for about 3 months.  In addition i was perspiring so much for the first few days after treament that i literary had to change my shirt every 30 min tops.  NO joke :]
Thanks for posting that—very interesting
With love
Matt
From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: Ibogaine fatalities:
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 12:07:21 EST
As an Internal Medicine specialist for forty years and an addiction specialist for the final twelve years of my career, I was most fascinated by observing sleep changes prior to the onset AND during recovery of behavioral and physical disorders.  It appeared to me that sleep impairment/deprivation PRECEDED such disorders, but not uncommonly precipitated during sleep replacement/recovery.  Stress, obviously, mobilizes the body to respond with physiologic arousal (via sympathetic nervous sytem mechanisms) to maintain performance in spite of the stress.  During recovery, sympathetic responses give way to parasympathetic arousal to reinstate digestion and assimilation for nutrition, increased clotting for vascular repair, inflammation and congestion to heal vascular, mucus and joint membranes. (Just simple YING/YANG!)  Disorders appearing during “recovery,” included gastrointestinal hyperactivity/acidity (ulcers, gastro-esophageal reflux, diarrhea, etc.) and thrombosis (coronary occlusions, thrombophlebitis with pulmonary embolism/infarction, arterial thrombosis-mesenteric occlusion/cerebral artery strokes) and infection at sites previous dormant during stress (pneumonia, dental and skin abscesses, etc.)
     In addition, gastro-esophageal reflux is known to lead to aspiration of acidic stomach contents into the lungs, causing “asthma-like” symptoms and sometimes sudden death (e.g. Reggie White of Green Bay Packer fame).
     IF, as I tend to theorize, the Ibogaine experience creates a rapid shifting from STRESS to RECOVERY of the brain, one might expect the above “Recovery” pheno-mena to occur precipitantly, making vascular occlusions (coronaries, strokes and phlebitis) possible, asthma and pneumonia due to aspiration likely and inflammatory HEALING responses to dental, skin, liver and other sites of dormant infection, bacterial or viral, common.
     On the other hand, it is remarkable that IBOGAINE appears to be as safe as it does in such a compromised population as drug dependent folks.  At an NIH brain storming session concerning IBOGAINE in Bethesda in 1995, I expressed concern that 1) we would want to be very careful using Ibogaine in the elderly, who predictably would have subtle lesions in their body “waiting” to be dramatically “healed” by the “restoring” brain.  This might trigger thromboses, inflammation and gastro-esophageal reflux/aspiration; and 2) suggested that a sleep specialist be intimately involved in the research of Ibogaine.  I continue to suggest these same elements.
     I also “theorize” that the psychedelic experience triggered by Ibogaine dramatically RESTORES needed REM-Stage Sleep, in addicts who have a very severe deprivation state of REM Sleep due to their habit.  All the drugs of “addiction” deprive the brain of or suppress REM-Stage Sleep, indeed almost all current psychiatric drugs do ALSO.  The exceptions to this REM depriving effect are the PSYCHEDELICS (mescaline, soma, LSD and ayahuasca) ! ! !
     To rapidly reverse “withdrawal,” stop “craving” in its tracks and provide a mystical, often psychotherapeutic, effect, is certainly a dramatic “HEALING” effect on the brain, giving the brain the opportunity to potentiate healing of the body.  But most physicians realize the “rapid healing” of the body can be dangerous and lethal, when  thromboses occur, fever rises to 107 degrees, or congestion overwhelms the lungs or infection raises the body’s defenses to the point of vascular shock, intra-vascular coagulation, etc.
     Any reactions by our audience?      Ed Friedrichs, M.D., Brown Deer, WI
Create your own custom mailing list called Groups with MSN Hotmail /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT! Bauhaus
Date: November 13, 2005 at 7:37:30 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hey b
i cant wait for depeche mode!!….they will be here on dec 1….
been listening to them for so long and never seem to get tired of them :]
and the lyrics ohh the woefull melancholic lyrics combined with dave’s hypntoic voice :]
i been to an amzing black metal concert on thursday…behomoth…..what a fuken spectacle!!
with love
matt
hey let me know how the show went :}
From: Beatrice Blue <beatriceblue@cox.net>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT! Bauhaus
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 19:07:53 -0800
My concert was postponed until December sometime. But no one gave anyone a
heads up, so everyone got ready and showed up to the venue. Just to have
Ticketmaster send us all notices the day after the show letting us know. A
lot of good that did us! Glad to hear you enjoyed it. Just got home from
seeing the Rolling Stones, saw Jamiroquai earlier this week and seeing
Depeche Mode next week. At least I have all that. Now to wait until
December…
On 11/11/05 8:43 PM, “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
> Just got back from seeing Bauhaus tonight, tickets given to me by V back
> on my birthday (Sept. 11), so we went tonight, and holy moley, they still
> rock the house- except the volume coulda been a heck of a lot better.
> Come to think of it, this is only off topic for the ibogaine list, since
> I’m adding the following link to a dossier I wrote for disinfo.com a number
> of years ago, and it mentions me driving from Orlando to Tampa tripping my
> brains out after an entire day of tripping the other brains out at Disney
> World (and that acid cured me of any desire to EVER go again to Disney
> World. Yuck, but the rides were fun though).
> Remember there are a LOT of links at this URL, both imbedded in the
> article itself, and following it as well- and this is just an excerpt, so
> there’s more article there too.
> Enjoy.
>
> http://www.disinfo.com/archive/pages/dossier/id809/pg1/
>
> bauhaus and homework
> by Preston Peet (ptpeet@cs.com) – February 01, 2001
>
> As he lay there playing games with his pain, he felt his choice of jobs was
> such a mistake. He could have been a doctor in a soft easy chair. Instead
> his choose three stars, a territorial affair. Terror couple kill colonel . .
> .
> ~ ~ Bauhaus, Terror Couple Kill Colonel (4-AD Records, 1980).
>
> We were driving on Interstate 80, through the center of Florida, after
> tripping hard all day at DisneyWorld’s Magic Kingdom in Orlando, with
> Bauhaus blaring on the stereo.
> We had to drive the Mustang home to Tampa, a good 80 to 100 miles. We’d been
> planning on sleeping another night in Orlando before undertaking the drive,
> but for one reason or other, that plan was untenable. So drive it was,
> despite hallucinating fiercely and struggling to make out the road amongst
> the visions. (We had taken incredibly strong acid, psychedelic in the purest
> sense of the word. We’d first dropped acid, whilst entering Disney’s park at
> 9AM, then dropped another hit of at 4PM in Tomorrow Land. By the time we hit
> the highway, it was around 10PM with no sign of decreased tripping.
>
> Suddenly, my companion said to me out of the darkness to my right, just
> audible over the blasting stereo: “This is not music to do my homework by.”
>
> Maybe not while driving and tripping, but Bauhaus’s “Bela Lugosi’s
> Dead,”–nine-plus minutes of rock history recorded in just one take–sure
> made for an amazing soundscape to drive through tripping. Homework was just
> one of many activities I’d undertake while listening to Bauhaus.
>
> For a long time, Bauhaus was ‘the’ band for me. Fronted by Peter Murphy’s
> inestimable vocals, with David J. (Haskins) playing bass, Kevin Haskins on
> drums, and Daniel Ash’s absolutely incomparable guitar, this quartet created
> my daily soundtrack: the sounds I most enjoyed listening to for years.
>
> First formed as Bauhaus 1919, in recognition of the early 20th century
> design and art movement, they soon dropped the 1919, and publicly debut as
> Bauhaus on New Years Eve, 1978. Bauhaus immediately let the world know, in
> no uncertain terms, that it was in for something very different, when they
> released “Bela Lugosi’s Dead” in August 1979 (with the brilliant “Boys”
> B-side on the Small Wonder label). Dramatic and in-your-face different.
>
> During their live shows, Bauhaus held the public at arms-length, creating
> shadows with both light and music, pounding out sounds that their audience
> had never heard before. They used only white lights, because, as their
> official bio argues: “Colored lights are for Christmas trees.” Fair enough.
>
> snip-
>
> And if tonight was any indication, they still feel the same about those
> lights.
> ;-))
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> mistaken for madness”
> Richard Davenport-Hines
>
> ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
> Editor http://www.drugwar.com
> Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
> Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
> Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
> Cont. High Times mag/.com
> Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
> Columnist New York Waste
> Etc.
>
>
>
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>
>
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From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Seth on drugs and quite possibly iboga
Date: November 13, 2005 at 7:28:13 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com, eboga@elistas.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
well i think this is very interesting
especialy the last paragraph
could it be any more clear
is it just me and my wishfull thinking or does te cotton plant really resamble iboga
i looked at pics and photos ….it s really fuken close :]
awaiting comments
with excitment and love
matt
Seth (ESP Class, 12-11-73): Now, as Ruburt told you, there is nothing
wrong, by itself, with grass. But if you use it as a crutch, or if
you believe that your high is dependent upon it, or that your joy is
dependent upon it, or that it is your primary avenue to
enlightenment, then you had better examine your beliefs more than you
have…
Seth (ESP Class 9-29-79)
(Ingrid raised a question about drugs and the class got into a heavy
discussion about drugs.
(Rob commented that drugs in various forms were used throughout the
ages of man.)
Now. I am going to bid you good evening, and if you realize now, I
will make a few comments, but comments will tell you nothing that you
do not know. Your belies about the drugs that you take are extremely
important. Sometimes you can take the drugs you have been speaking
about simply as a method of rebelling against the world that you
know, and against the society. Some people who feel that they are
minorities, like the feeling of being minorities. They like the sense
of danger. They like the idea of being on the outskirts of society.
They like the idea of doing something illegal. They want to be
pursued. They enjoy the danger.
You make your own reality. Of course, there are alternate states of
consciousness. And when you are in those states of consciousness, you
do certain chemical things to your body. You can take a drug and do
the same thing from the outside. And many people, of course, through
the centuries, have taken drugs for that reason. They can serve to
initiate tribes and groups to those alterations of consciousness. But
if you begin to think that they represent your only way of achieving
mental or psychological freedom, then you are using them as a crutch.
Now, there is nothing wrong with using them as a crutch except that
you do not need the crutch to begin with. So we are not talking in
moral terms. I am not saying anything is wrong or evil in moral
terms. You are each intimately aware of the balance of your own
personalities. And you always sense where there is an imbalance. And
so you know when it is a time of change. You can become addicted to
eating a paper cup, if you believe it. There are tribes who chew
cocaine leaves and do a full day’s work and think there is nothing
strange about it. But when you take drugs such as that in your
society, it means something entirely different. The effect is not the
same.
And so I simply want you to consider such things and understand the
reasons for your actions. And Ruburt was correct. Never are we so
sure of our convictions in our speech, when we wonder about them in
our hearts. But you are all doing well. And if you would simply
realize, you do not need drugs. You produce through your thoughts and
feelings all the chemicals that you need to turn you on to whatever
extent, and you do not have to buy them. And you do not have to worry
about the police coming. But then, that is all too natural and
uninvolved and unexciting.
I bid you all a fond good night and where you are I am, because I
represent the part of you that you know you are. And I am nothing
that you are not. I am nothing that you are not, in true fact, in the
true meaning of the word. So any wisdom or power or energy that you
assign  to me you cannot do rightfully unless you assign that power
to yourselves. I am in your dreams because I am the self that you
know you are. And you are in my dreams for the same reasons. There is
room in our system of beliefs for different tastes. For those who
have a love of terms, and those who do not. For those who have
different styles of being.
………………
Seth (ESP Class, 2-5-74): (After a discussion of Seth’s remarks, Wade
completed reading Chapter 9 of Seth’s book (Personal Reality, I
think), and Larry started to read Chapter 10. In the chapter, the
subject dealt with massive doses of LSD. During the reading, Seth
interrupted:)
      Now, instead of the next massive dose, there are many people
who think that the next occult school will do it, or the next
religion, or the next political party, or the next new medicine, or
the next new wonder drug, or the next new improved god will all do
it. Excedrin will do it if you believe in it! Acid will do it if you
believe it. But you will do it if you believe it.
      And each person reading those passages will for himself see
what he has put up before himself, instead of himself – what beliefs,
what god, what product, what medicine man, what guru, what father,
what mother, (Pat interjected: “What diet!”) what diet, what vitamin,
and each reader will follow his own journey as he reads that chapter….
(Larry passed the manuscript to Richard and reading of Chapter 10
continued. Seth again interrupted:)
      Now, I want to make a note that will not be in the printed
book. What I said applies to massive doses of acid. The same chemical
disorientation, however, can also occur with quite accepted medical
drugs – as I have, to some extent explained further on in that
chapter – where the messages are literally scrambled on a biological
basis. The self tries to solve a particular problem. In so doing, it
may end up with a physical difficulty. The physical difficulty is
meant to remind the personality of the inner problem behind it. The
difficulty will be cleared up when the inner problem is.
      Now, if instead a drug is used to camouflage the ailment, or
in your terms to heal it, to cure it, to get rid of it, the inner
self is in a quandary for it knows the problem has not been solved
though the symptom has disappeared. The drug used to cure the body
may now, may in many instances, obscure the problem and confuse both
the body and the mind. Another ailment must be taken, therefore, that
will symbolically, and quite practically, materialize the problem in
your reality. So the patient will get another ailment.
      If this ailment is also obscured or cured through the drug,
whatever it may be, then the inner self is in a further quandary, and
it will continue to try to materialize the problem so that it can be
solved. The communication between the mental, psychic, and physical
portions of the being can, in such instances, become obscured.
      Now that does not always apply: for someone with a severe
difficulty, believing in the effectiveness of your doctors may be
given a wonder drug and believe in it so that when the symptoms are
completely annihilated, he is convinced of the fact of an inner help,
and therefore feels secure enough to solve his inner problem. In such
a case, however, he has effectively used the drug to heal his mind
and his body. The drug has not done it.
      This does not mean that you cannot take advantage of such
drugs. It does mean that when you do, you are operating within a
framework of reality that still, to some extent, divides you from the
reality of your own being.
Now, I return you to the book.
(Before Seth withdrew, Sue, Wade and Marianne all asked him about
particular situations dealing with their parents. Seth answered their
questions and then he was asked about peyote as an hallucinatory
drug. Seth responded:)
      There is a small bit on peyote, in other terms, in the book.
However, peyote, used naturally by the natives who use it, has an
entirely different idea than most of you have about the drug. It is
not expected to annihilate an ego. They used it within a social
framework in which it was perfectly natural. There was no paranoia
connected with it.
      So the reason that you use a drug is highly important. When
you use peyote, you expect it to give you, again, a new occult,
forbidden knowledge. When the natives used it, they expected it to
give them the wisdom of the leaves and the flowers, to activate
within themselves the nature that they know they possess, and it is
as natural as you when you eat bacon and eggs. Therein lies the
difference in your beliefs.
………………………..
Seth (ESP Class, 12-12-72): You do not need, in Ruburt’s terms, to
take acid. You do not need to find the answers from acid or from me –
even when I am acidy.
      The answers are within yourself – you simply have not
believed it. You have an ego because you are conscious. The ego is a
responsive part of yourself. It is not a stupid relative to be
shunted out of the way. And yet you look at it constantly and you
say, “You stupid thing, you know nothing – out you go! Let my pure
unconscious well up and give me the answers.”
      And so your life operates according to your beliefs. And
since you believe you do not have the answers, it does not seriously
occur to you to listen to yourself. You listen to your animus or your
anima or your shadow. But try listening to the self that you are in
all your remarkable unity. And then the answers are and they are a
part of you.
……………………………..
Seth (ESP Class, 1-16-73): I am not telling everyone to go out and
get grass. But grass is a natural ingredient, and acid is not, in
your terms. There are those who go on fasts and will not touch liquor
or cigarettes, who will not look an egg in the face, and who will
take acid without a qualm.
      It has various effects – few that you understand – and it
brings to the forefront the knowledge of the self with which you are
not, at this point, equipped to deal. The resultant lack of balance
can be disastrous.
      You were lucky. I use the term lucky in that you were graced
to assimilate that knowledge in a way that you could at least bear,
if not understand. I will have much to say at a later date along
those lines.
      But when you have mental experiences of the same kind of
nature that are not brought about by drugs, then you draw out from
the cells that knowledge. And you are prepared to face it. And
drawing out from your cells that knowledge, you bring about, on your
own account, certain changes in those cells that are otherwise
brought about without preparation. Cells are alive and living; they
are conscious and aware. They have their joy as you have yours.
……………………..
Seth (ESP Class, 3-20-73): “A squirrel is filled with the reality and
present joy of his being, and none of you today has seen a squirrel
with a hypodermic up in his tree. He does not need it either. He does
not need peyote. He does not need acid. He does not need grass.
Because he is that which he is, and he is full of the joy of his
being and not afraid of it. And as he scampers through the branches,
he is not afraid of falling down either, because he trusts his own
being. And he knows, without your fine intellect, that he has a place
in this universe, that a place was made for him and that his being is
sacred and joyful and alive. So for any of you who may stray so
deeply, those remarks were addressed!”
Seth (Session 410): “There are other drugs however, and if these are
discovered and utilized, then these developments could occur within
the field of psychology itself. The drugs release certain barriers
that stand between the physical body and its other forms. One such
plant resembles the cotton plant, yet with very small yellow or
yellow white seeds, and grows in certain portions of Africa. Its
effect would seem to be highly hallucinatory. The hallucinations
however would be quite valid journeys into other realities.”
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From: Beatrice Blue <beatriceblue@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT! Bauhaus
Date: November 12, 2005 at 10:07:53 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
My concert was postponed until December sometime.  But no one gave anyone a
heads up, so everyone got ready and showed up to the venue.  Just to have
Ticketmaster send us all notices the day after the show letting us know.  A
lot of good that did us!  Glad to hear you enjoyed it.  Just got home from
seeing the Rolling Stones, saw Jamiroquai earlier this week and seeing
Depeche Mode next week.  At least I have all that.  Now to wait until
December…
On 11/11/05 8:43 PM, “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Hi all,
 Just got back from seeing Bauhaus tonight, tickets given to me by V back
on my birthday (Sept. 11), so we went tonight, and holy moley, they still
rock the house- except the volume coulda been a heck of a lot better.
 Come to think of it, this is only off topic for the ibogaine list, since
I’m adding the following link to a dossier I wrote for disinfo.com a number
of years ago, and it mentions me driving from Orlando to Tampa tripping my
brains out after an entire day of tripping the other brains out at Disney
World (and that acid cured me of any desire to EVER go again to Disney
World. Yuck, but the rides were fun though).
 Remember there are a LOT of links at this URL, both imbedded in the
article itself, and following it as well- and this is just an excerpt, so
there’s more article there too.
 Enjoy.
http://www.disinfo.com/archive/pages/dossier/id809/pg1/
bauhaus and homework
by Preston Peet (ptpeet@cs.com) – February 01, 2001
As he lay there playing games with his pain, he felt his choice of jobs was
such a mistake. He could have been a doctor in a soft easy chair. Instead
his choose three stars, a territorial affair. Terror couple kill colonel . .
.
~ ~ Bauhaus, Terror Couple Kill Colonel (4-AD Records, 1980).
We were driving on Interstate 80, through the center of Florida, after
tripping hard all day at DisneyWorld’s Magic Kingdom in Orlando, with
Bauhaus blaring on the stereo.
We had to drive the Mustang home to Tampa, a good 80 to 100 miles. We’d been
planning on sleeping another night in Orlando before undertaking the drive,
but for one reason or other, that plan was untenable. So drive it was,
despite hallucinating fiercely and struggling to make out the road amongst
the visions. (We had taken incredibly strong acid, psychedelic in the purest
sense of the word. We’d first dropped acid, whilst entering Disney’s park at
9AM, then dropped another hit of at 4PM in Tomorrow Land. By the time we hit
the highway, it was around 10PM with no sign of decreased tripping.
Suddenly, my companion said to me out of the darkness to my right, just
audible over the blasting stereo: “This is not music to do my homework by.”
Maybe not while driving and tripping, but Bauhaus’s “Bela Lugosi’s
Dead,”–nine-plus minutes of rock history recorded in just one take–sure
made for an amazing soundscape to drive through tripping. Homework was just
one of many activities I’d undertake while listening to Bauhaus.
For a long time, Bauhaus was ‘the’ band for me. Fronted by Peter Murphy’s
inestimable vocals, with David J. (Haskins) playing bass, Kevin Haskins on
drums, and Daniel Ash’s absolutely incomparable guitar, this quartet created
my daily soundtrack: the sounds I most enjoyed listening to for years.
First formed as Bauhaus 1919, in recognition of the early 20th century
design and art movement, they soon dropped the 1919, and publicly debut as
Bauhaus on New Years Eve, 1978. Bauhaus immediately let the world know, in
no uncertain terms, that it was in for something very different, when they
released “Bela Lugosi’s Dead” in August 1979 (with the brilliant “Boys”
B-side on the Small Wonder label). Dramatic and in-your-face different.
During their live shows, Bauhaus held the public at arms-length, creating
shadows with both light and music, pounding out sounds that their audience
had never heard before. They used only white lights, because, as their
official bio argues: “Colored lights are for Christmas trees.” Fair enough.
snip-
And if tonight was any indication, they still feel the same about those
lights.
;-))
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
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From: brenda brewer <shakti@photon.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To: Day & Sara & Ron & Matt & Brenda & Kirk
Date: November 12, 2005 at 11:09:09 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Huh?  Did I miss something here?  I don’t remember making any comments that were directed to you.  I remember posting something about ME.
You looked cute in your video, though 🙂
brenda
On 11/11/05 11:38 PM, “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
> Re: [Ibogaine] To: Day & Sara & Ron & Matt & Brenda & Kirkwhoa Nellie:
> Brenda, you hardly know me.  How can you accuse me of “waking up and
> transforming”? I ain’t wearing that label so you force me to do something
> stupid again.  I just have to figure out what it is and who’s the recepient.
> Don’t be so quick on the draw next time.  I didn’t get stupid overnight ,
> won’t get straight overnight and now I have to do a heavy duty prank and
> humilate myslf again.  Shite, this is work gurhl. Put yourself in my grease
> paint for a day.  koko, the chaffed klown. love just the same.
Shakti
Vocalist/Lyricist
House, Soul, Background vocals
From: Morning Wood <morning_wood263@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine]    (ot)   Chemical History Of A Candle, by Michael Faraday
Date: November 12, 2005 at 10:49:27 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Chemical History Of A Candle, by Michael Faraday
http://www.gutenberg.org/catalog/world/readfile?fk_files=117642&pageno=2
light
__________________________________
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com
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From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT:- Re: Don!!
Date: November 12, 2005 at 3:02:49 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Don:
Ibo’s a hoot. better than a pc or phonebook and a litre Early Times .     Take the plunge and know then what ye speak about.  koko
—– Original Message —–
From: Don Patton
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 3:38 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT:- Re: Don!!
Do you HAVE A LIFE, or just sit around monitoring us miscreants all day? I mean, you are always here. That thing between your legs needs some attention, too, don’t forget!
Kirk wrote:
Awwwww just a little?  Come on now, no beating about the bush I am A LOT goofy!! Lol.
All I seem to do these days is smile and laugh and love shitloads, godammmm hippy shit!!!!
I’ll be sucking on beads next and wearing stupid head bands lmao.
But fanks!!
It’s good having you hear too mate!!
Aroha to all (love, n all dat hippy shit)
Kirsty :o)
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net] 
Sent: Monday, 7 November 2005 10:21 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Erasing memories and its potential for addiction treatment
Kirk, you are a little goofy, but you “Get it”. I am honored by your presence and appreciate your being here. 

Kirk wrote:
LOL
You are so full of surprises Mr don man!!!
Keeping us intrigued, what’s next?? 🙂
Do ibogaine man!!!!  Should be verrryyy interesting!!!
Lol
Kirk xx
—–Original Message—–
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net]
Sent: Monday, 7 November 2005 9:54 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Erasing memories and its potential for addiction
treatment
WHAAA???  Man, you guys crack me UP! Mass hypnotic suggestion,
mal-distribution of wealth. BEAUTIFULLY written, though, almost hypnotic
in itself, BRAVO!
Hypnosis has to be allowed to happen, I have no need for it, therefore,
I cannot be hypnotized. ANY hypnotist will agree, they cannot work with
a subject that does not believe hypnotism is possible for them. Hypnosis
is merely a way to step behind repressed feelings and key an outburst of
the child. Sillyness, innocenct, playful, imiginative is brought to the
surface. But convince me to buy a new Hummer, no, sorry.
Bill Gates didn’t win the lottery, nor did Steve Forbes or Donald Trump.
And dismissing their accomplishments to justify your shortcomings may
feed your ego, and the ego feeds on lies. Actually, both of you are very
gifted writers, and if you would just step out of the misery pool, then
maybe you could use some hypnotic suggestions to sell a book or two. I
mean, if it’s so easy, why not take advantage of it? If you can be
manipulated so easily, then why can you not manipulate? Then, we can
blame YOU for winning life’s lottery. And you can make a fortune selling
us dimrods the clue!
People unwilling to offend their moral values, and realistic enough to
know the lotteries are a con, tend to look for spiritual answers, a way
to “progress”, but not in a material sense- since that game is fixed.
This is priceless, “I’m too honest to get rich, and if I do, that means
I am corrupted somehow, since all who do not need are theives and
liars”. I cannot support myself because I am moral, yet the immoral need
to support me for they have taken what I have earned.
And increasingly, people see that hard work will no longer get
you there; you either need luck, as in the lotteries, or you need some
kind of con to be upwardly mobile.
Yeah, hard work WON’T get you there. Recognize your talent and cultivate
it. That isn’t work, that’s getting paid to do what you LOVE to do.
You talk about brainwashing, look in the mirror, you hypocrit, you are
amazing as a writer and I, at least, am very interested in what you have
to say. You have brainwashed yourself into belittleling one friggin’
amazing human being with SOOO much to offer.
I need another beer.
Day Brown wrote:
Carol Ann wrote:
Day, The “magical” practices can be easily attributed to
sophisticated marketing continually under development
via mass hypnotic suggestion, those employed by
hypnotherapists since the discovery and confirmation
of the subconsious mind. This is rather long read and
hopefully, you might find it interesting as few are
exempt unless knowledgable about how it is employed.
You results will vary. Wallace, after coining “magical thinking”,
went on to suggest that as the system declines, people’s coping skills
no longer work so well, so they seek new methods. Two of the symptoms
of decline is increasing corruption and worsening mal-distribution of
wealth. And increasingly, people see that hard work will no longer get
you there; you either need luck, as in the lotteries, or you need some
kind of con to be upwardly mobile.
People unwilling to offend their moral values, and realistic enough to
know the lotteries are a con, tend to look for spiritual answers, a way
to “progress”, but not in a material sense- since that game is fixed.
If they do stay in the rat race, then they try to use astrology or some
other divination tool to improve their odds… magical thinking. I have
no opinion on how effective any of these may be for any individual.
Your Kharma may vary. My own is such that friends try to do me good, but
it always backfires. I still have to be grateful to be inconvenienced.
The magical thinking that works most often is that which comes from some
entheogen and the altered state of consciousness where you get to step
back from the ego to dispassionately look at your interactions. You wont
get ahead, but you get to live more easily not trying.
If your kharma is such that Sutphen’s hypnotism or any other path works
for you and makes you as successful as you hoped, I dont have a problem
with that. And I’m fine if others find that path useful. But I know my
own kharma; for me, Vedic ‘non-action’ works. I can sit, I can wait, and
I can think about what I learned. I dont need to do more.
I agree that brainwashing in pervasive. That dont mean that I have the
Kharmic power to change that for anyone. For instance, my search into
how we got where we are led me to buy JP Mallory, “In Search of the Indo
-Europeans”. Mallory is a rightfully well respected scholar and field
archaeologist, yet the cover of his work shows, as he describes it on the
cover of his book, “bronze figure of an Iranian Steppe nomad taking a
classic “parthian” shot over his shoulder.” close quote.
http://anzi.hypertech.net/artifax.htm
shows a jpg I posted of the book cover. You can plainly see *HER* left
tit. Mallory’s book is full of clues that he himself doesnt see showing
that the original Aryans were matriarchic. How many warrior graves do
they have to find with female DNA and pelvises to admit that Amazons
were a lot more than just mythic? The brainwashing is, as noted, so
pervasive nobody knows it exists.
The few who do know are too few to have the power to do anything about
it. We live cassandrine lives; but better than than a fool.
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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] OT: Ron…
Date: November 12, 2005 at 2:40:22 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Ron, shut the hell up, wake up and TRANSFORM DAMMIT
Lol
And … eat…
;o)
From: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net] 
Sent: Saturday, 12 November 2005 8:38 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To: Day & Sara & Ron & Matt & Brenda & Kirk
whoa Nellie:
Brenda, you hardly know me.  How can you accuse me of “waking up and transforming”? I ain’t wearing that label so you force me to do something stupid again.  I just have to figure out what it is and who’s the recepient.  Don’t be so quick on the draw next time.  I didn’t get stupid overnight , won’t get straight overnight and now I have to do a heavy duty prank and humilate myslf again.  Shite, this is work gurhl. Put yourself in my grease paint for a day.  koko, the chaffed klown. love just the same.
—– Original Message —–
From: brenda brewer
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 8:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To: Day & Sara & Ron & Matt & Brenda & Kirk
Thank you, Don.  Yes, having the list has helped tremendously.  The first days of withdrawals were horrible, I was a mess.  I don’t ever want to go through that again.

I appreciate your words of acknowledgement.   I have made some pretty big behavior shifts – basically realized what really taking responsibility for myself means.  I stopped lying to myself about my alcohol use acknowledged that I was in pain but there had got to be better way to numb the pain.  I guess the Universe Knew I was ready and sent me the help I need.

Anyway, I just returned from the homa.  We chanted around the fire, made and offering of roses, incense and a coconut, then had a little kirtan the some social time.  Really had a sublime time.

Brenda :)

On 11/6/05 8:51 AM, “Don Patton” <SuperBee@Tstar.net> wrote:

> Nicely put, but Global Warming?? Girl, put down the agenda and step 
> away. Other than that, what you wrote is sheer poetry, kudos.
> 
> Sara, we all have a need to be validated, don’t think for a second that 
> the absence of back-slaps equates to being ignored, just the opposite. 
> You kicked a nerve that got us thinking and we are digesting it, mulling 
> it over, and will probably forget to post a response due to the rapidly 
> changing subjects. Please don’t interpret that as being ignored, I LOVE 
> your posts and look forward to them, keep ’em coming!
> 
> Just an observation, but can we all just stop it with the 
> self-degradation? We have an AMAZING room, full of VERY varied 
> personalities, all coming together to cheer each other on. Just don’t 
> let the thread slip into “Woe is Me”. Look at Brenda, she has made 
> MIRACULOUS changes BEFORE her treatment, shit, she was all needy and 
> demanding, now look at her. She quit drinking BEFORE treatment, she 
> pledged to stop putting her boyfriend through hell, and SHE DID IT!!! 
> This is a woman with conviction and determination, and I hope, jeez, I 
> know, this list had SOMETHING to do with  that. Iboga is not gonna be 
> her way out, she did that alone, and when she confronts her demons that 
> got her there she WILL KNOW that SHE is in control. I am sooo proud of her!
> 
> Look at Matt, he iboed, and is a TOTALLY different person. He writes 
> MUCH better, and has a new perspective on life and God.He is still 
> struggling, but has put down the needle and is looking the other way for 
> a change. Thank the list.
> 
> Look at Ron, jeez, he became conscious in front of our eyes! A little 
> wake-up call TOTALLY re-arranged his thinking. He speaks clearly and 
> brings new ideas. Thank the list.
> 
> Kirk keeps us all laughing, responding. Dr. Laura once said ” If you 
> keep your head above the crowd, you are gonna get hit with the first 
> shoe that’s thrown”. That’s Kirk, the one with the shoe embedded in the 
> back of her head. LMAO!!
> 
> You guys keep up the good work, we are not here by accident.
> 
> Bee
>
From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To: Day & Sara & Ron & Matt & Brenda & Kirk
Date: November 12, 2005 at 2:38:25 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
whoa Nellie:
Brenda, you hardly know me.  How can you accuse me of “waking up and transforming”? I ain’t wearing that label so you force me to do something stupid again.  I just have to figure out what it is and who’s the recepient.  Don’t be so quick on the draw next time.  I didn’t get stupid overnight , won’t get straight overnight and now I have to do a heavy duty prank and humilate myslf again.  Shite, this is work gurhl. Put yourself in my grease paint for a day.  koko, the chaffed klown. love just the same.
—– Original Message —–
From: brenda brewer
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 8:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To: Day & Sara & Ron & Matt & Brenda & Kirk
Thank you, Don.  Yes, having the list has helped tremendously.  The first days of withdrawals were horrible, I was a mess.  I don’t ever want to go through that again.
I appreciate your words of acknowledgement.   I have made some pretty big behavior shifts – basically realized what really taking responsibility for myself means.  I stopped lying to myself about my alcohol use acknowledged that I was in pain but there had got to be better way to numb the pain.  I guess the Universe Knew I was ready and sent me the help I need.
Anyway, I just returned from the homa.  We chanted around the fire, made and offering of roses, incense and a coconut, then had a little kirtan the some social time.  Really had a sublime time.
Brenda 🙂
On 11/6/05 8:51 AM, “Don Patton” <SuperBee@Tstar.net> wrote:
> Nicely put, but Global Warming?? Girl, put down the agenda and step
> away. Other than that, what you wrote is sheer poetry, kudos.
>
> Sara, we all have a need to be validated, don’t think for a second that
> the absence of back-slaps equates to being ignored, just the opposite.
> You kicked a nerve that got us thinking and we are digesting it, mulling
> it over, and will probably forget to post a response due to the rapidly
> changing subjects. Please don’t interpret that as being ignored, I LOVE
> your posts and look forward to them, keep ’em coming!
>
> Just an observation, but can we all just stop it with the
> self-degradation? We have an AMAZING room, full of VERY varied
> personalities, all coming together to cheer each other on. Just don’t
> let the thread slip into “Woe is Me”. Look at Brenda, she has made
> MIRACULOUS changes BEFORE her treatment, shit, she was all needy and
> demanding, now look at her. She quit drinking BEFORE treatment, she
> pledged to stop putting her boyfriend through hell, and SHE DID IT!!!
> This is a woman with conviction and determination, and I hope, jeez, I
> know, this list had SOMETHING to do with  that. Iboga is not gonna be
> her way out, she did that alone, and when she confronts her demons that
> got her there she WILL KNOW that SHE is in control. I am sooo proud of her!
>
> Look at Matt, he iboed, and is a TOTALLY different person. He writes
> MUCH better, and has a new perspective on life and God.He is still
> struggling, but has put down the needle and is looking the other way for
> a change. Thank the list.
>
> Look at Ron, jeez, he became conscious in front of our eyes! A little
> wake-up call TOTALLY re-arranged his thinking. He speaks clearly and
> brings new ideas. Thank the list.
>
> Kirk keeps us all laughing, responding. Dr. Laura once said ” If you
> keep your head above the crowd, you are gonna get hit with the first
> shoe that’s thrown”. That’s Kirk, the one with the shoe embedded in the
> back of her head. LMAO!!
>
> You guys keep up the good work, we are not here by accident.
>
> Bee
>
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] OT! Bauhaus
Date: November 11, 2005 at 11:43:31 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi all,
  Just got back from seeing Bauhaus tonight, tickets given to me by V back on my birthday (Sept. 11), so we went tonight, and holy moley, they still rock the house- except the volume coulda been a heck of a lot better.
  Come to think of it, this is only off topic for the ibogaine list, since I’m adding the following link to a dossier I wrote for disinfo.com a number of years ago, and it mentions me driving from Orlando to Tampa tripping my brains out after an entire day of tripping the other brains out at Disney World (and that acid cured me of any desire to EVER go again to Disney World. Yuck, but the rides were fun though).
  Remember there are a LOT of links at this URL, both imbedded in the article itself, and following it as well- and this is just an excerpt, so there’s more article there too.
  Enjoy.
http://www.disinfo.com/archive/pages/dossier/id809/pg1/
bauhaus and homework
by Preston Peet (ptpeet@cs.com) – February 01, 2001
As he lay there playing games with his pain, he felt his choice of jobs was such a mistake. He could have been a doctor in a soft easy chair. Instead his choose three stars, a territorial affair. Terror couple kill colonel . . .
~ ~ Bauhaus, Terror Couple Kill Colonel (4-AD Records, 1980).
We were driving on Interstate 80, through the center of Florida, after tripping hard all day at DisneyWorld’s Magic Kingdom in Orlando, with Bauhaus blaring on the stereo.
We had to drive the Mustang home to Tampa, a good 80 to 100 miles. We’d been planning on sleeping another night in Orlando before undertaking the drive, but for one reason or other, that plan was untenable. So drive it was, despite hallucinating fiercely and struggling to make out the road amongst the visions. (We had taken incredibly strong acid, psychedelic in the purest sense of the word. We’d first dropped acid, whilst entering Disney’s park at 9AM, then dropped another hit of at 4PM in Tomorrow Land. By the time we hit the highway, it was around 10PM with no sign of decreased tripping.
Suddenly, my companion said to me out of the darkness to my right, just audible over the blasting stereo: “This is not music to do my homework by.”
Maybe not while driving and tripping, but Bauhaus’s “Bela Lugosi’s Dead,”–nine-plus minutes of rock history recorded in just one take–sure made for an amazing soundscape to drive through tripping. Homework was just one of many activities I’d undertake while listening to Bauhaus.
For a long time, Bauhaus was ‘the’ band for me. Fronted by Peter Murphy’s inestimable vocals, with David J. (Haskins) playing bass, Kevin Haskins on drums, and Daniel Ash’s absolutely incomparable guitar, this quartet created my daily soundtrack: the sounds I most enjoyed listening to for years.
First formed as Bauhaus 1919, in recognition of the early 20th century design and art movement, they soon dropped the 1919, and publicly debut as Bauhaus on New Years Eve, 1978. Bauhaus immediately let the world know, in no uncertain terms, that it was in for something very different, when they released “Bela Lugosi’s Dead” in August 1979 (with the brilliant “Boys” B-side on the Small Wonder label). Dramatic and in-your-face different.
During their live shows, Bauhaus held the public at arms-length, creating shadows with both light and music, pounding out sounds that their audience had never heard before. They used only white lights, because, as their official bio argues: “Colored lights are for Christmas trees.” Fair enough.
snip-
And if tonight was any indication, they still feel the same about those lights.
;-))
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
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From: Carol Ann <saffireskyes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: FW: Warning… Please forward to everybody
Date: November 11, 2005 at 8:02:57 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
http://us.mcafee.com/virusInfo/default.asp?id=description&virus_k=98893
http://www.lancs.ac.uk/iss/a-virus/h-virtual2.htm
Sean Hamman <paganlovejuice@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Note: forwarded message attached.
To help you stay safe and secure online, we’ve developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre.Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 17:37:20 +0000 (GMT)
From: Misha Baumann <mishabaumann@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Fwd: FW: Warning… Please forward to everybody
To: Giacomo Galtarossa <info@tenutapule.com>
WORST VIRUS EVER —CNN ANNOUNCED
PLEASE SEND THIS TO EVERYONE ON YOUR CONTACT LIST !!
A new virus has just been discovered that has been classified by Microsoft as the most destructive ever. This virus was discovered yesterday afternoon by McAfee and no vaccine has yet been developed. This virus simply destroys Sector Zero from the hard disk, where vital information for its functioning are stored.
This virus acts in the following manner:
It sends itself automatically to all contacts on your list with the title:
“A Card for You”.
As soon as the supposed virtual card is opened the computer freezes so that the user has to reboot . When the ctrl+alt+delkeys or the reset button are pressed, the virus destroys Sector Zero, thus permanently destroyi! ng the hard disk. Yesterday in just a few hours this virus caused panic in New York, according to news broadcast by CNN.
This alert was received by an employee of Microsoft itself.
So  don’t open any mails with subject: “A Virtual Card for You.” As soon as you get the mail, delete it!! Even if you know the sender !!!
Please ! pass this mail to all of your friends.
Forward this to everyone in your address book. I’m sure most people, like myself, would rather receive this notice 25 times than not at All
Karim Hamdan
Executive Director
Addison Bradley & Co.
Tel: (+44) 207 355 1616
Fax: (+44) 207 355 2773
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Addison Bradley & Co. Ltd is authorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority (FSA). The assigned FSA Reference # is 305107.
This e-mail message and any attachments to it are intended only for the named recipients and may contain confidential information.  If you are not one of the intended recipients, please do not duplicate or forward this e-mail message and immediately delete it from your computer.  If you received this e-mail by error, please notify karimhamdan@addisonbradley.co.uk
The sender does not accept any liability for any loss, of whatsoever nature, however caused in the context of this message, which may arise as a result of Internet transmission.
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
Best regards,
Carol
_______________________________
Never Accept Only Two Choices in Life.
The problems of Today cannot be solved by the same thinking that created them.
-Al Einstein.
Yahoo! FareChase – Search multiple travel sites in one click.
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] assistance requested
Date: November 11, 2005 at 5:31:10 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com, dwf123@earthlink.net
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Dear list members,
Since 2003, the ibogaine community has supported the Dora Weiner Foundation and my participation in national and international conferences during which I have presented on various ibogaine related topics. I am once again requesting assistance for Dora Weiner projects including participation in the 17th International Conference on the Reduction on Drug Related Harm.  The conference is scheduled to take place in Vancouver, BC, Canada from April 30 through May 4, 2006, and special user organized sessions will take place on May 5, 2006.
I am seeking to raise $17,000.00 to fund participation in the conference for myself and two other persons, based on the estimated cost provided by the conference organizers of $5,000.00 per person.  The additional $2,000.00 is to cover costs for printing/copying and shipping ibogaine related conference material to Vancouver.  I have submitted an application for a $5,000.00 scholarship for myself but,  826 other persons have also submitted applications for only eight (8) scholarships and the conference organizers have asked that we try to raise funds independently (see their email below).  All donations are appreciated.  I will provide additional information from time to time or you may contact me directly. Please feel free to call (718 442-2754) or write and thanks for your help.
Donation checks or money orders should be made to the Dora Weiner Foundation and are tax deductible.  Take a look at our web page to get an idea of how your donations are used.  http://www.doraweiner.org/projects.html
Checks or money orders should be sent to the following address.
Howard Lotsof
President
Dora Weiner Foundation
46 Oxford Place
Staten Island, NY q10301
USA
Thanks for your support.
Howard
The main conference web page can be found at <http://harmreduction2006.ca/> and the users gathering page at <http://vancouver.mammajamma.org/>.  I have submitted two abstracts for presentations as that is the maximum allowed by any participant.
As many of you may know, Vancouver is the center of ibogaine activity in Canada.
Additional information will be posted from time to time as part of our fund raising effort.
Howard Lotsof
President
Dora Weiner Foundation
46 Oxford Place
Staten Island, NY 10301
USA
dir tel: 1 718 442-2754
dir fax: 1 718 442-1957
email: dwf123@earthlink.net
http://www.doraweiner.org
************************************************
On Oct 26, 2005, at 5:17 PM, Harm Reduction 2006 wrote:
RE: Conference breaks records for abstracts and scholarships
Vancouver Harm Reduction 2006
Conference Update
Dear colleague,
We’re very pleased to report that Vancouver’s International Conference on the Reduction of Drug Related Harm received a record-breaking 1320 abstracts from health scientists, researchers, community and international service organizations and other experts from 93 countries.
We also received an unprecedented number of scholarship applications – 827 in total. The incredible commitment and talent expressed in these applications is awe-inspiring. And while the conference would love to fund every applicant, this will not be possible. We are actively fundraising, but it is likely that we will be able to support only a small percentage of the applicants – those with the best abstracts and the greatest need.
For this reason, we encourage all scholarship applicants to continue to seek local and other sources of funding. Also, we encourage all applicants to pursue the acquisition of any visas or travel documents they may require as soon as possible.
The abstracts and scholarship applications will be reviewed in the coming weeks. All applicants will be notified of the status of their abstract and scholarship on or before January 1, 2006. We ask applicants to please refrain from inquiring about the status of their submissions before that time.
Don’t forget to check the conference website on a regular basis at: http://harmreduction2006.ca. New information for potential participants and attendees will be added on an ongoing basis, including travel updates, information addressing potential participant needs and updates on satellite sessions and other conference-related programming.
To register for the conference, please go to http://www.harmreduction2006.ca/registration/B1_1_reg_online.htm. The early bird deadline is January 30, 2006.
We hope you are all as excited as we are about this incredible response!
Sincerely,
Sue Currie and Patricia Spittal
Conference Co-Chairs
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] KOKO’S DOING HIS STREET ACT (OT) PLEASE READ TEXT B/4 DOWNLOAD
Date: November 11, 2005 at 4:43:37 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
ROFLMAO
Cheers bro, good to have a belly laugh this early in the morning (with sore head from last night….. daughter’s 17th birthday, had to celebrate that of course…. Hahahaha)
But hell man, come on, EAT SOMETHING FOR THE LOVE OF DOG!!! Too many ribs showing.
You know you can always get a toupee??
You are a helluva dancer I must admit…
Kirk ;o)
From: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net] 
Sent: Saturday, 12 November 2005 10:15 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] KOKO’S DOING HIS STREET ACT (OT) PLEASE READ TEXT B/4 DOWNLOAD
TO THE LIST:
HERE IS MY LATEST VIDEO WHICH SHOWS ME UP CLOSE AND PERSONAL.
WONDER WHY I’M SO CYNICAL?  GUESS. PLAYED HELL GETTING NEW DRIVERS LICENSE.  THEY WANT ME IN GLASSES(CONTACTS DON”T STAY IN LIKE THEY USE TOO).  I HAVE TO USE A BABY BOOSTER SEAT.  HAD TO STAND ON CHAIR JUST TO REACH THE VISUAL AID STUFF ON COUNTER.  PLEEEEZE, NO “HAVE YOU LOST WEIGHT KOKO ?” QUESTIONS. I’M IMPOSSIBLE TO FIT .  UPSIDE:  DON’T NEED MUCH PRODUCT BUT VEINS ARE A BITCH.  AIN’T NO EASY GETTIN’ OFF LIKE THE REST OF YOU PROBABLY ENJOY OR ENJOYED.  SOME ARSEHOLE CALLED ME A CHICK.  I’M SENSITIVE ABOUT MY HAIR AND FRIGGING WATCH DOESN’T FIT ANYMORE.  USE THIS FOR HOO-DOO AND PIN IT NEXT TIME I BLOW YOUR PC’Z. I JUST CAN’T GO ON LIKE THIS
LATER AND PEACE,
KOKO THE BENEVOLENT KLOWN
OH, LOST ALL MY JURY APPEAL.  MY LAST SESSION DID THIS, GUESS I WAS IN PRETTY BAD SHAPE.  HOPE TO GAIN SOME WEIGHT OVER THE HOLIDAYS. CAN’T EVEN HOLD THE GLOCK OR H&K ANYMORE OR KEEP A GIRLFRIEND.
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/2931/skeleton_street_show/R/wfd_201
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] VIDEO OF KOKO (OT) CAREFUL IF YOU DOWN LOAD WEBSITE IN MESSAGE…
Date: November 11, 2005 at 4:19:27 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
hahahahahahaha!!! I have already seen this! The guy is very talented!
From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] KOKO’S DOING HIS STREET ACT (OT) PLEASE READ TEXT B/4 DOWNLOAD
Date: November 11, 2005 at 4:15:06 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
TO THE LIST:
HERE IS MY LATEST VIDEO WHICH SHOWS ME UP CLOSE AND PERSONAL.
WONDER WHY I’M SO CYNICAL?  GUESS. PLAYED HELL GETTING NEW DRIVERS LICENSE.  THEY WANT ME IN GLASSES(CONTACTS DON”T STAY IN LIKE THEY USE TOO).  I HAVE TO USE A BABY BOOSTER SEAT.  HAD TO STAND ON CHAIR JUST TO REACH THE VISUAL AID STUFF ON COUNTER.  PLEEEEZE, NO “HAVE YOU LOST WEIGHT KOKO ?” QUESTIONS. I’M IMPOSSIBLE TO FIT .  UPSIDE:  DON’T NEED MUCH PRODUCT BUT VEINS ARE A BITCH.  AIN’T NO EASY GETTIN’ OFF LIKE THE REST OF YOU PROBABLY ENJOY OR ENJOYED.  SOME ARSEHOLE CALLED ME A CHICK.  I’M SENSITIVE ABOUT MY HAIR AND FRIGGING WATCH DOESN’T FIT ANYMORE.  USE THIS FOR HOO-DOO AND PIN IT NEXT TIME I BLOW YOUR PC’Z. I JUST CAN’T GO ON LIKE THIS
LATER AND PEACE,
KOKO THE BENEVOLENT KLOWN
OH, LOST ALL MY JURY APPEAL.  MY LAST SESSION DID THIS, GUESS I WAS IN PRETTY BAD SHAPE.  HOPE TO GAIN SOME WEIGHT OVER THE HOLIDAYS. CAN’T EVEN HOLD THE GLOCK OR H&K ANYMORE OR KEEP A GIRLFRIEND.
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/2931/skeleton_street_show/R/wfd_201
From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] VIDEO OF KOKO (OT) CAREFUL IF YOU DOWN LOAD WEBSITE IN MESSAGE – SEE TEXT
Date: November 11, 2005 at 3:51:52 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
HERE IS MY PHOTO FOR ALL WHO WISH TO PUT PINS IN IT FOR HOO-DOO.
DAMN PHOTO LAB TOOK FOREVER.  IT WAS SHOT RIGHT B/4 KATRINA.  I PLAYED HELL GETTING MY DRIVERS LICENSE RENEWED, THEY WANT ME IN GLASSES,  VISUAL AID MACHINE TOO FRIGGING HIGH FOR ME TO REACH, I HAVE TO USE BABY BOOSTER SEAT WHEN DRIVING, AND THE LIST GOES ON.
EVER WONDER WHY I’M SO CYNICAL?  NOW YOU GUYS KNOW.  SOME ARSEHOLE EVEN THOUGHT I WAS A CHICK. UPSIDE, DOESN’T TAKE MUCH PRODUCT TO GET OFF BUT VEINS ARE A BITCH TO FIND.
LATER AND PEACE TO THOSE WHO WISH ME HARM, I’LL PRAY YOUR BUTT TO DEATH. CAN’T HOLD MY GLOCK STEADY ANYMORE
KOKO THE BENEVOLENT KENAI KLOWN
P.S. PLEEEEZE, NO JOKES ABOUT ME LOSING WEIGHT AS I’M SENSITIVE ABOUT THAT AND HAIR. AND I’VE LOST JURY APPEAL.
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/2931/skeleton_street_show/R/wfd_201
From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re: Ibogaine fatalities:
Date: November 11, 2005 at 2:48:34 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I can certainly attest to majority of the symptons listed below after undergoing my first treament for opiates/methadone/benzos.
Out of nowhere my heart sack become infected causing tremendous pain, my ulcers returned and complications with my pancreas left me a in great deal of suffering.  I was also afflicted with sudden allergic outbursts that left me sneezing and snifling for about 3 months.  In addition i was perspiring so much for the first few days after treament that i literary had to change my shirt every 30 min tops.  NO joke :]
Thanks for posting that—very interesting
With love
Matt
From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: Ibogaine fatalities:
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 12:07:21 EST
As an Internal Medicine specialist for forty years and an addiction specialist for the final twelve years of my career, I was most fascinated by observing sleep changes prior to the onset AND during recovery of behavioral and physical disorders.  It appeared to me that sleep impairment/deprivation PRECEDED such disorders, but not uncommonly precipitated during sleep replacement/recovery.  Stress, obviously, mobilizes the body to respond with physiologic arousal (via sympathetic nervous sytem mechanisms) to maintain performance in spite of the stress.  During recovery, sympathetic responses give way to parasympathetic arousal to reinstate digestion and assimilation for nutrition, increased clotting for vascular repair, inflammation and congestion to heal vascular, mucus and joint membranes. (Just simple YING/YANG!)  Disorders appearing during “recovery,” included gastrointestinal hyperactivity/acidity (ulcers, gastro-esophageal reflux, diarrhea, etc.) and thrombosis (coronary occlusions, thrombophlebitis with pulmonary embolism/infarction, arterial thrombosis-mesenteric occlusion/cerebral artery strokes) and infection at sites previous dormant during stress (pneumonia, dental and skin abscesses, etc.)
     In addition, gastro-esophageal reflux is known to lead to aspiration of acidic stomach contents into the lungs, causing “asthma-like” symptoms and sometimes sudden death (e.g. Reggie White of Green Bay Packer fame).
     IF, as I tend to theorize, the Ibogaine experience creates a rapid shifting from STRESS to RECOVERY of the brain, one might expect the above “Recovery” pheno-mena to occur precipitantly, making vascular occlusions (coronaries, strokes and phlebitis) possible, asthma and pneumonia due to aspiration likely and inflammatory HEALING responses to dental, skin, liver and other sites of dormant infection, bacterial or viral, common.
     On the other hand, it is remarkable that IBOGAINE appears to be as safe as it does in such a compromised population as drug dependent folks.  At an NIH brain storming session concerning IBOGAINE in Bethesda in 1995, I expressed concern that 1) we would want to be very careful using Ibogaine in the elderly, who predictably would have subtle lesions in their body “waiting” to be dramatically “healed” by the “restoring” brain.  This might trigger thromboses, inflammation and gastro-esophageal reflux/aspiration; and 2) suggested that a sleep specialist be intimately involved in the research of Ibogaine.  I continue to suggest these same elements.
     I also “theorize” that the psychedelic experience triggered by Ibogaine dramatically RESTORES needed REM-Stage Sleep, in addicts who have a very severe deprivation state of REM Sleep due to their habit.  All the drugs of “addiction” deprive the brain of or suppress REM-Stage Sleep, indeed almost all current psychiatric drugs do ALSO.  The exceptions to this REM depriving effect are the PSYCHEDELICS (mescaline, soma, LSD and ayahuasca) ! ! !
     To rapidly reverse “withdrawal,” stop “craving” in its tracks and provide a mystical, often psychotherapeutic, effect, is certainly a dramatic “HEALING” effect on the brain, giving the brain the opportunity to potentiate healing of the body.  But most physicians realize the “rapid healing” of the body can be dangerous and lethal, when  thromboses occur, fever rises to 107 degrees, or congestion overwhelms the lungs or infection raises the body’s defenses to the point of vascular shock, intra-vascular coagulation, etc.
     Any reactions by our audience?      Ed Friedrichs, M.D., Brown Deer, WI
Create your own custom mailing list called Groups with MSN Hotmail /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: Sean Hamman <paganlovejuice@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fwd: FW: Warning… Please forward to everybody
Date: November 11, 2005 at 2:25:17 PM EST
To: Ibogaine List <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Note: forwarded message attached.
To help you stay safe and secure online, we’ve developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre.
From: Misha Baumann <mishabaumann@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Fwd: FW: Warning… Please forward to everybody
Date: November 9, 2005 at 12:37:20 PM EST
To: Giacomo Galtarossa <info@tenutapule.com>
WORST VIRUS EVER —CNN ANNOUNCED
PLEASE SEND THIS TO EVERYONE ON YOUR CONTACT LIST !!
A new virus has just been discovered that has been classified by Microsoft as the most destructive ever. This virus was discovered yesterday afternoon by McAfee and no vaccine has yet been developed. This virus simply destroys Sector Zero from the hard disk, where vital information for its functioning are stored.
This virus acts in the following manner:
It sends itself automatically to all contacts on your list with the title:
“A Card for You”.
As soon as the supposed virtual card is opened the computer freezes so that the user has to reboot . When the ctrl+alt+delkeys or the reset button are pressed, the virus destroys Sector Zero, thus permanently destroyi! ng the hard disk. Yesterday in just a few hours this virus caused panic in New York, according to news broadcast by CNN.
This alert was received by an employee of Microsoft itself.
So  don’t open any mails with subject: “A Virtual Card for You.” As soon as you get the mail, delete it!! Even if you know the sender !!!
Please ! pass this mail to all of your friends.
Forward this to everyone in your address book. I’m sure most people, like myself, would rather receive this notice 25 times than not at All
Karim Hamdan
Executive Director
Addison Bradley & Co.
Tel: (+44) 207 355 1616
Fax: (+44) 207 355 2773
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Addison Bradley & Co. Ltd is authorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority (FSA). The assigned FSA Reference # is 305107.
This e-mail message and any attachments to it are intended only for the named recipients and may contain confidential information.  If you are not one of the intended recipients, please do not duplicate or forward this e-mail message and immediately delete it from your computer.  If you received this e-mail by error, please notify karimhamdan@addisonbradley.co.uk
The sender does not accept any liability for any loss, of whatsoever nature, however caused in the context of this message, which may arise as a result of Internet transmission.
 /]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
 \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: shakti@photon.net
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:  Ibogaine & REM
Date: November 11, 2005 at 2:18:07 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi,
I found this fascinating in terms of people who suffer from forms of sleep
apnea and maybe insomnia.
My BF has started at the Stanford Sleep Clinic.  They’re going to run him
through the mill of tests then he’s going to sleep there for like a month
while they monitor him.  It sounds like Ibogaine, with my limited
knowledge of it, could be a part of healing process for someone like him
who suffers from lack of REM sleep.
brenda
———————————————————–
WebMail provided by Photon.Net – http://www.photon.net/
Nationwide internet access, thousands of dial-up numbers!
Web hosting, multimedia broadcasting, e-commerce, and more.
 /]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
 \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: Nowwarat@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:  Ibogaine fatalities:
Date: November 11, 2005 at 1:34:52 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Dr. Freidrichs, thank you for your insights. From the perspective of a layperson, it seems that a total body meltdown could be avoided by providing the brain with  a chemical or two. At that point,  this impossibly rapid and complicated bio-chemical reaction switches paths in “midstream” and goes from a withdrawal model  to a regenerative model.
One of the attributes of methadone for myself is as an antidepressive. It’s the supplier of it that makes me think of getting clear of it. But I have alot of doubt. It’s hard to imagine something that could interrupt the withdrawal  process short of another opiate. It kind of boggles my imaginationa and is a bit scary too. But I don’t want to believe that the powers that be don’t realize the amount of good that  could come out of big time research on this ie The Manhattan Project.
Please continue to contribute.
Bruce
From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re:  Ibogaine fatalities:
Date: November 11, 2005 at 12:07:21 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
As an Internal Medicine specialist for forty years and an addiction specialist for the final twelve years of my career, I was most fascinated by observing sleep changes prior to the onset AND during recovery of behavioral and physical disorders.  It appeared to me that sleep impairment/deprivation PRECEDED such disorders, but not uncommonly precipitated during sleep replacement/recovery.  Stress, obviously, mobilizes the body to respond with physiologic arousal (via sympathetic nervous sytem mechanisms) to maintain performance in spite of the stress.  During recovery, sympathetic responses give way to parasympathetic arousal to reinstate digestion and assimilation for nutrition, increased clotting for vascular repair, inflammation and congestion to heal vascular, mucus and joint membranes. (Just simple YING/YANG!)  Disorders appearing during “recovery,” included gastrointestinal hyperactivity/acidity (ulcers, gastro-esophageal reflux, diarrhea, etc.) and thrombosis (coronary occlusions, thrombophlebitis with pulmonary embolism/infarction, arterial thrombosis-mesenteric occlusion/cerebral artery strokes) and infection at sites previous dormant during stress (pneumonia, dental and skin abscesses, etc.)
     In addition, gastro-esophageal reflux is known to lead to aspiration of acidic stomach contents into the lungs, causing “asthma-like” symptoms and sometimes sudden death (e.g. Reggie White of Green Bay Packer fame).
     IF, as I tend to theorize, the Ibogaine experience creates a rapid shifting from STRESS to RECOVERY of the brain, one might expect the above “Recovery” pheno-mena to occur precipitantly, making vascular occlusions (coronaries, strokes and phlebitis) possible, asthma and pneumonia due to aspiration likely and inflammatory HEALING responses to dental, skin, liver and other sites of dormant infection, bacterial or viral, common.
     On the other hand, it is remarkable that IBOGAINE appears to be as safe as it does in such a compromised population as drug dependent folks.  At an NIH brain storming session concerning IBOGAINE in Bethesda in 1995, I expressed concern that 1) we would want to be very careful using Ibogaine in the elderly, who predictably would have subtle lesions in their body “waiting” to be dramatically “healed” by the “restoring” brain.  This might trigger thromboses, inflammation and gastro-esophageal reflux/aspiration; and 2) suggested that a sleep specialist be intimately involved in the research of Ibogaine.  I continue to suggest these same elements.
     I also “theorize” that the psychedelic experience triggered by Ibogaine dramatically RESTORES needed REM-Stage Sleep, in addicts who have a very severe deprivation state of REM Sleep due to their habit.  All the drugs of “addiction” deprive the brain of or suppress REM-Stage Sleep, indeed almost all current psychiatric drugs do ALSO.  The exceptions to this REM depriving effect are the PSYCHEDELICS (mescaline, soma, LSD and ayahuasca) ! ! !
     To rapidly reverse “withdrawal,” stop “craving” in its tracks and provide a mystical, often psychotherapeutic, effect, is certainly a dramatic “HEALING” effect on the brain, giving the brain the opportunity to potentiate healing of the body.  But most physicians realize the “rapid healing” of the body can be dangerous and lethal, when  thromboses occur, fever rises to 107 degrees, or congestion overwhelms the lungs or infection raises the body’s defenses to the point of vascular shock, intra-vascular coagulation, etc.
     Any reactions by our audience?      Ed Friedrichs, M.D., Brown Deer, WI
From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Table of Ibogaine Related Fatalities
Date: November 11, 2005 at 7:16:19 AM EST
To: Ibogaine List <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, Eboga List <eboga@elistas.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Dear List,
First I want to point out that when I started working on this table I tried to isolate the importance of certain factors such as blood pressure and heart condition. I read through the earlier posts and was somewhat confused by what I read. So I emailed Howard and put to him some thoughts seeking to isolate certain measurements as contributory towards death, i.e., I was trying to see if there were particular measurements that signal a red light in advance and others not as much.
Anyway, being dumb on the subject Howard finally got it into my head that regardless of speculation no one actually knows the sequence bio-chemically speaking of events which lead to death. At the same time he supplied me with references and did some investigation on blood pressure which he passed on to me for which I am most grateful.
This help was important to me so I could move on to a more practical approach, i.e., I do not know the actual sequence of events leading to death as I am not in a position to know that but I can at least record what is known and let people judge for themselves and also offer some additional safety advice such as added heart tests.
Another interesting point that Howard point out that even though medical interventions are made to regulate abnormal heart activity in a medical facility, noone actually knows if these interventions would not have resolved themselves anyway or whether they would be a cause of death. Interesting. Even the present work on the effects of ibo on the qt interval does not necessarily mean that death should ensue as noone has been in a position to observe a death resulting from such an event.
So I have put together a table of 6 known fatalities. In fact there are 8 (public domain) in total of which 2 are related to the extract – one guy died on a sandwich and another had a prior history of sorts. Anyway, as the extract is a total alkaloid mixture I decided to leave it out of the discussion as I feel the effort involved is best kept “simplified” by focusing on the single and most important alkaloid to all of us, i.e., ibogaine. To lump the two together makes the discussion more difficult on many levels. I am reminded of the extreme position Nick takes on these things where he points a finger to any unknown and says what about that? No offense Nick, I love your take in that it makes the argument crystal clear and thats a good thing. Hence my focus on ibo only.
So here is the table. PLEASE comment if you have more information. Much of the prior writeup to the table comes from emails Howard sent me on the subject which I adapted. Much of the info in the table comes from Nicks site but also includes extra details I managed to pick up from correspondence with a list member and also with Dana as well as some internet searches I made.
Perhaps my own take is also lacking in objectivity. So I appreciate being put straight on the table contents if necessary.
Working Table on Ibogaine Related Fatalities:
www.my-eboga.com/risks.html
Thanks,
Lee
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Trepanation??? vector wtf??? lol
Date: November 11, 2005 at 6:38:10 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I had a look at that page Luke and to be honest I need that operation like a hole in the head!
It looks absolutely horrendous and to do such a thing to yourself is bordering on Shadow inspired self mutilation imho.
Lee
Luke Christoffersen <luke.christoffersen@gmail.com> wrote:
Trepanation sounds a bit mad alright. Here’s a link to an account of
a dude of did it and lived and didn’t seem to see any real lasting
benifit. I remember reading an account somewhere on the web about a
place, in Asia I think, doing it as a cure for addictions. I can’t
remember how I came to be reading about this, probably just bored at
work. 🙂
http://www.bmezine.com/news/people/A10101/trepan/
On 11/9/05, Kirk wrote:
> Huh? What the heck is trepanation???? Drilling holes in his head??? Wtf??
> Yes report please lol
> k
>
> —–Original Message—–
> From: Vector Vector [mailto:vector620022002@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Thursday, 10 November 2005 8:00 a.m.
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Full BBC Documentary Online: One Life: Detox or Die
> – The life of a heroin/methadone addict in Glascow, the cost of his
> dependence and the hope offered by ibogaine/eboga.
>
> The guy who made the movie, David Scott is on mindvox and talked about
> it almost 2 years ago when he was making it, finishing it, his stories
> were going to the media, as far as I remember they were a little over
> the top sensationalistic with him building up to either detoxing or
> dying. reeldeathfilms. The last conversations I remember here he was
> talking about trepanation and drilling holes in his head, probably also
> in front of a camera.
>
> Did you want a written report? 😉
>
> .:vector:.
>
> — Lee Albert wrote:
>
> > Hi List,
> >
> > I have had some interesting feedback on this documentary.
> >
> > Any more comments?
> >
> > Lee
> >
> > Lee Albert wrote:
> > Hi List,
> >
> > Just to let you know I have a link on my providers page and links
> > page for the full BBC documentary of:
> >
> > “Detox or Die – David Graham Scott has been addicted to drugs for
> > nearly 20 years. Watch this BBC documentary about his fight to beat
> > his addiction and treatment provided by Edward Conn.”
> >
> >
> > www.my-eboga.com/providers.html
> >
> > This documentary can also be accessed directly via:
> >
> > www.becomewhole.co.uk
> >
> > Lee
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over
> > a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
> > www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
> >
> >
> > My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
> > interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for
> > those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over
> > a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
> > www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
> >
> >
> > My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
> > interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for
> > those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Start your day with Yahoo! – Make it your home page!
> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
>
>
>
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>
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Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
From: shakti@photon.net
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Trepanation??? vector wtf??? lol
Date: November 10, 2005 at 7:14:09 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Well, ya gotta hand it to the guy.  He planned it well.
What else can you say?
brenda 😉
Trepanation sounds a bit mad alright.  Here’s a link to an account of
a dude of did it and lived and didn’t seem to see any real lasting
benifit.  I remember reading an account somewhere on the web about a
place, in Asia I think, doing it as a cure for addictions. I can’t
remember how I came to be reading about this, probably just bored at
work. 🙂
http://www.bmezine.com/news/people/A10101/trepan/
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From: shakti@photon.net
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] skald and everyone else too
Date: November 10, 2005 at 6:15:37 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Preston,
It’s like a really, really bad relationship with someone you thought was
‘the one” then you find out they screwed around on you all the time and
stole all your money!  And you still kind of love them – ?  It goes away
if you can stick to it with support.  That’s the head game.  Then there’s
the physical trip.  I know you can do it.
brenda 🙂
thnaks kindly, to everyone who took time to write something encouraging to
me. I really, really, really need the bolstering, I don’t mind admitting
that I ain’t Superman, and drug expert or not, opiates bite me hard right
on my ass, as much as I LOVE them. and as much good that they do for my
pain. I just so fucking sick of the merry go round. I want OFF.
Peace and love,
Preston Peet
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —–
From: SKALD VANASATRU
To: drugwar@mindvox.com
Cc: drugwar@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 10:43 AM
Subject: Re: [DrugWar] please think good for me the next week or two
Nuthin’ but white light woven in norse and keltic power knots comin’
from here! Think V just like I think K at those same personal times.
Good luck, May the Gods be wih you…
Tigerrider & Kea
Peace and love,
Preston Peet
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
———————————————————–
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] skald and everyone else too
Date: November 10, 2005 at 5:45:13 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
thnaks kindly, to everyone who took time to write something encouraging to me. I really, really, really need the bolstering, I don’t mind admitting that I ain’t Superman, and drug expert or not, opiates bite me hard right on my ass, as much as I LOVE them. and as much good that they do for my pain. I just so fucking sick of the merry go round. I want OFF.
Peace and love,
Preston Peet
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —–
From: SKALD VANASATRU
To: drugwar@mindvox.com
Cc: drugwar@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 10:43 AM
Subject: Re: [DrugWar] please think good for me the next week or two
Nuthin’ but white light woven in norse and keltic power knots comin’
from here! Think V just like I think K at those same personal times.
Good luck, May the Gods be wih you…
Tigerrider & Kea
Peace and love,
Preston Peet
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I will always think good for you
Date: November 10, 2005 at 5:35:12 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Thanks all.
    I’ve managed to keep it to one pill so far today, not eaten until about 45 minutes ago- it’s hard to do this guys and gals, it’s really, really, really hard to do, KICK cold turkey. It SUCKS in all captial letter.
        But I did get a new videogame from Activision today in the mail to review, so tyhat shoudl be a great distration, right?
😉
Seriously, thank you everyone for your thoughts, well wishes and prayers. I don’t believe in “god” but I do put some credence to prayers.
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —–
From: Jasen Chamoun
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 2:05 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I will always think good for you
  Hey Preston,
 You are in my thoughts. The candle I lit for you is red and yellow,..fire and earth and it sits in a brass cobra.
 I am thinking of you becoming,..strong,..well and healthy. The flame of your candle is beautiful,..it will burn all
 night.
 Be well brother.
                                                        with love Jasen
From: Preston Peet
    I’m waaaaaay beyond SICK and TIRED. So help me with your thoughts in becoming strong and well and healthy again. I REALLY need all the support I can get.
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] sex and drugs reading
Date: November 10, 2005 at 5:28:30 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi all,
    Besides the reading I’m doing at COSM on Nov. 17, I’m also reading at the event below, either the harder “news” article titled “Sex and…Drugs,” or a first person account of what some of us have had to do to obtain our much needed drugs with sex.
    So I hope at least some of you can make it to this event- it should be almost as much fun as the COSM event.
Peace and love,
Preston
What:
Everything You Know About Sex is Wrong Lecture/Reading/Q&A
90 Minute Lecture/Reading with 30 minute Q&A afterwards
When:
Thursday, December 1, 2005  7pm – 9pm
Where:
Museum of Sex
233 Fifth Avenue (@ 27th Street)
New York, NY 10016
General Information: (212) 689-6337
$10 for adults and $8 for students/members
From: Luke Christoffersen <luke.christoffersen@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Trepanation??? vector wtf??? lol
Date: November 10, 2005 at 4:52:36 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Trepanation sounds a bit mad alright.  Here’s a link to an account of
a dude of did it and lived and didn’t seem to see any real lasting
benifit.  I remember reading an account somewhere on the web about a
place, in Asia I think, doing it as a cure for addictions. I can’t
remember how I came to be reading about this, probably just bored at
work. 🙂
http://www.bmezine.com/news/people/A10101/trepan/
On 11/9/05, Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz> wrote:
Huh? What the heck is trepanation???? Drilling holes in his head??? Wtf??
Yes report please lol
k
—–Original Message—–
From: Vector Vector [mailto:vector620022002@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, 10 November 2005 8:00 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Full BBC Documentary Online: One Life: Detox or Die
– The life of a heroin/methadone addict in Glascow, the cost of his
dependence and the hope offered by ibogaine/eboga.
The guy who made the movie, David Scott is on mindvox and talked about
it almost 2 years ago when he was making it, finishing it, his stories
were going to the media, as far as I remember they were a little over
the top sensationalistic with him building up to either detoxing or
dying. reeldeathfilms. The last conversations I remember here he was
talking about trepanation and drilling holes in his head, probably also
in front of a camera.
Did you want a written report? 😉
.:vector:.
— Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi List,
I have had some interesting feedback on this documentary.
Any more comments?
Lee
Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi List,
Just to let you know I have a link on my providers page and links
page for the full BBC documentary of:
“Detox or Die – David Graham Scott has been addicted to drugs for
nearly 20 years. Watch this BBC documentary about his fight to beat
his addiction and treatment provided by Edward Conn.”
www.my-eboga.com/providers.html
This documentary can also be accessed directly via:
www.becomewhole.co.uk
Lee
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over
a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for
those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over
a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for
those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
__________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! – Make it your home page!
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Erasing memories and its potential for addiction treatment
Date: November 10, 2005 at 10:56:05 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 12:54:22 -0800 Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
wrote:
WHAAA???  Man, you guys crack me UP! Mass hypnotic suggestion,
mal-distribution of wealth. BEAUTIFULLY written, though, almost
hypnotic
in itself, BRAVO!
Hypnosis has to be allowed to happen, I have no need for it,
therefore,
I cannot be hypnotized. ANY hypnotist will agree, they cannot work
with
a subject that does not believe hypnotism is possible for them.
Hypnosis
is merely a way to step behind repressed feelings and key an
outburst of
the child. Sillyness, innocenct, playful, imiginative is brought
to the
surface. But convince me to buy a new Hummer, no, sorry.
Could I sell you a war in Iraq based on an attack on the World
Trade Center by a band of Saudi Arabian dissidents? Your
interpretation of hypnotism omits the deliberate use of stress to
soften up the target. If car ads were allowed to lie like
politicians, no telling how many more Hummers would be on the road.
Otherwise your belief in the natural order is refreshing 🙂
Bill Gates didn’t win the lottery, nor did Steve Forbes or Donald
Trump.
And dismissing their accomplishments to justify your shortcomings
may
feed your ego, and the ego feeds on lies. Actually, both of you
are very
gifted writers, and if you would just step out of the misery pool,
then
maybe you could use some hypnotic suggestions to sell a book or
two. I
mean, if it’s so easy, why not take advantage of it? If you can be
manipulated so easily, then why can you not manipulate? Then, we
can
blame YOU for winning life’s lottery. And you can make a fortune
selling
us dimrods the clue!
People unwilling to offend their moral values, and realistic
enough to
know the lotteries are a con, tend to look for spiritual
answers, a way
to “progress”, but not in a material sense- since that game is
fixed.
This is priceless, “I’m too honest to get rich, and if I do, that
means
I am corrupted somehow, since all who do not need are theives and
liars”. I cannot support myself because I am moral, yet the
immoral need
to support me for they have taken what I have earned.
And increasingly, people see that hard work will no longer get
you there; you either need luck, as in the lotteries, or you
need some
kind of con to be upwardly mobile.
Yeah, hard work WON’T get you there. Recognize your talent and
cultivate
it. That isn’t work, that’s getting paid to do what you LOVE to
do.
You talk about brainwashing, look in the mirror, you hypocrit, you
are
amazing as a writer and I, at least, am very interested in what
you have
to say. You have brainwashed yourself into belittleling one
friggin’
amazing human being with SOOO much to offer.
I need another beer.
Day Brown wrote:
Carol Ann wrote:
Day, The “magical” practices can be easily attributed to
sophisticated marketing continually under development
via mass hypnotic suggestion, those employed by
hypnotherapists since the discovery and confirmation
of the subconsious mind. This is rather long read and
hopefully, you might find it interesting as few are
exempt unless knowledgable about how it is employed.
You results will vary. Wallace, after coining “magical
thinking”,
went on to suggest that as the system declines, people’s coping
skills
no longer work so well, so they seek new methods. Two of the
symptoms
of decline is increasing corruption and worsening mal-
distribution of
wealth. And increasingly, people see that hard work will no
longer get
you there; you either need luck, as in the lotteries, or you
need some
kind of con to be upwardly mobile.
People unwilling to offend their moral values, and realistic
enough to
know the lotteries are a con, tend to look for spiritual
answers, a way
to “progress”, but not in a material sense- since that game is
fixed.
If they do stay in the rat race, then they try to use astrology
or some
other divination tool to improve their odds… magical thinking.
I have
no opinion on how effective any of these may be for any
individual.
Your Kharma may vary. My own is such that friends try to do me
good, but
it always backfires. I still have to be grateful to be
inconvenienced.
The magical thinking that works most often is that which comes
from some
entheogen and the altered state of consciousness where you get
to step
back from the ego to dispassionately look at your interactions.
You wont
get ahead, but you get to live more easily not trying.
If your kharma is such that Sutphen’s hypnotism or any other
path works
for you and makes you as successful as you hoped, I dont have a
problem
with that. And I’m fine if others find that path useful. But I
know my
own kharma; for me, Vedic ‘non-action’ works. I can sit, I can
wait, and
I can think about what I learned. I dont need to do more.
I agree that brainwashing in pervasive. That dont mean that I
have the
Kharmic power to change that for anyone. For instance, my search
into
how we got where we are led me to buy JP Mallory, “In Search of
the Indo
-Europeans”. Mallory is a rightfully well respected scholar and
field
archaeologist, yet the cover of his work shows, as he describes
it on the
cover of his book, “bronze figure of an Iranian Steppe nomad
taking a
classic “parthian” shot over his shoulder.” close quote.
http://anzi.hypertech.net/artifax.htm
shows a jpg I posted of the book cover. You can plainly see
*HER* left
tit. Mallory’s book is full of clues that he himself doesnt see
showing
that the original Aryans were matriarchic. How many warrior
graves do
they have to find with female DNA and pelvises to admit that
Amazons
were a lot more than just mythic? The brainwashing is, as noted,
so
pervasive nobody knows it exists.
The few who do know are too few to have the power to do anything
about
it. We live cassandrine lives; but better than than a fool.
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From: “Matthew Shriver” <matt@itsupport.net>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Matt
Date: November 10, 2005 at 9:54:43 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Thank you Callie I appreciate that, but Brenda had already sent it to me.  I watched it last night and I must say I thought there was an awful lot of shooting up going on in the beginning of that movie.  I noticed a physical reaction in myself when I was watching, some sort of uncomfortable longing almost.  I used to love needles.  Last night I dreamed about shooting coke and woke up at about 1:30AM with all of the physical reactions I get from that (racing heart, slightly sweaty, intestinal cramps).  I’m pretty sure it was related to watching that movie because I can’t even remember the last time I dreamed about something like that.
The scene where he is going through methadone withdrawal also struck me.  I felt like he was like me in that he didn’t appear terribly ill from the outside, but I know from experience how truly terrible that feels.  I was talking to an addict I used to use with who is 30 days clean (he says anyway, I take it at face value but I know him well enough to know it could be a lie also) and we were talking about kicking and withdrawals and such.  He was saying how he went to the bupe clinic with like 36 hours off and they told him he wasn’t sick enough, that he needed to wait longer and we were talking about how after kicking so many times, you just can’t show on the outside how truly terrible it is on the inside.  You just can’t go to the whiny, cry-baby place you feel like going to.  I remember the same experience when I first went to get on methadone.  I had a friend who was a phlebotomist so I had learned how to shoot without making tracks.  So when I went to the methadone clinic feeling ill with like 24 hours off, they said I didn’t appear sick and since I didn’t have tracks they doubted I was really a heroin addict.  They thought I was just trying to get some methadone to get high.
Interesting movie though.  I’m glad I watched it.
Matt
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com [mailto:CallieMimosa@aol.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 9:01 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Matt
http://www.becomewhole.co.uk/media_detoxordie76399.htm
There you go! Hope it works for you
From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Full BBC Documentary Online: One Life: Detox or Die – The life of a heroin/methadone addict in Glascow, the cost of his dependence and the hope offered by ibogaine/eboga.
Date: November 10, 2005 at 6:21:25 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Vector,
No. I think i´ll skip on that this time.
Its good to know we have online encyclopedic knowledge of the list 🙂
Sorry have to rush, theres water coming out of my head whenever I bend down to pick up something. Very strange… Now what was that you were saying?
Lee
Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com> wrote:
The guy who made the movie, David Scott is on mindvox and talked about
it almost 2 years ago when he was making it, finishing it, his stories
were going to the media, as far as I remember they were a little over
the top sensationalistic with him building up to either detoxing or
dying. reeldeathfilms. The last conversations I remember here he was
talking about trepanation and drilling holes in his head, probably also
in front of a camera.
Did you want a written report? 😉
.:vector:.
— Lee Albert wrote:
> Hi List,
>
> I have had some interesting feedback on this documentary.
>
> Any more comments?
>
> Lee
>
> Lee Albert wrote:
> Hi List,
>
> Just to let you know I have a link on my providers page and links
> page for the full BBC documentary of:
>
> “Detox or Die – David Graham Scott has been addicted to drugs for
> nearly 20 years. Watch this BBC documentary about his fight to beat
> his addiction and treatment provided by Edward Conn.”
>
>
> www.my-eboga.com/providers.html
>
> This documentary can also be accessed directly via:
>
> www.becomewhole.co.uk
>
> Lee
>
>
>
>
> Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over
> a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
> www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
>
>
> My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
> interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for
> those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over
> a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
> www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
>
>
> My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
> interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for
> those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! – Make it your home page!
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Full BBC Documentary Online: One Life: Detox or Die – The life…
Date: November 10, 2005 at 6:05:49 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Callie,
I need to give you a warning based on feedback I have had.
Basically, theres a lot about “using” in the movie and not so much about ibogaine, unfortunately.
One can get sucked into the cravings if one identifies with the characters.
Don’t get me wrong. I think its well made and interesting but maybe for a different target audience such as policymakers.
Lee
CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
I can’t get the steam video to work. I have Macromedia Flash 8. I will keep trying though. Would LOVE to see and comment on this documentary.
Callie
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] please think good for me the next week or two
Date: November 10, 2005 at 5:42:22 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Preston,
I am moving house today – a new beginning, and I am very, very happy about it.
So I will light a candle for your new dawn as well and ask my spirit friends to spread a watchful eye over you.
Lee
matthew zielinski <mattzielinski@hotmail.com> wrote:
OH man im with u bro
god damm wd’s!!!
As soon as im done writing this im going to get out a candle i have saved up for these special occasions and light it with all my thoughts projected to you my friend (oh no wait better put it out before we offend some people here)
we been having this wicked stormy weather for the past two days so i will put all my effort to harness that enrgy convert it to love and guidance and channel it ur way
you are in good hands my friend
and i know when u sick u dont give a fuk about all this universe bullshit but give it a shot whenever  u can…..i think u might get a suprise, and dont worry if u dont get it at first try or on ur hundreth try…just know there are people who are with u all the way….BELIVE IT!!
with love
matt
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] please think good for me the next week or two
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 11:24:54 -0500
Hi all,
    I am, beginning today, in an attempt to totally cut my opiate intake, sans ibogaine since I cannot at ALL afford anymore of it. So, my plan is to drastically cut my intake of MS-Contins (having now run out of dilaudid, and still have a week and a half before my next doc’s appointment) so I’m going to be a bit ill for a few days I suspect- but V has kindly offered to be “nice” to me during this attempt, so PLEASE all, keep me in your thoughts. I did it with methadone, kicking cold turkey, and have done it more than once with heroin, all without the help of ibogaine or anything at all but V, so why the hell not do it successfully with prescribed meds too, right?
    So again, please think good for mefor the next week or two. V’s been out of town since Friday in California, taking a break from NYC and from ME (god that hurts I have to admit, but it’s totally understandable after 9 years with no breaks at all from one another beyond a day or two the whole time so I’m dealing with it well, taking the view that ok, so I have had my own break, sorta since I’ve had a burlesque dancer friend staying in our back room since V left and whol leaves for Berlin tomorrow), and V returns this afternoon (god damn it I can’t freakin’ wait to see/smell/touch her), so I start today in getting at least down to the barest minimum if not getting totally off this stuff for a while.
    I’m waaaaaay beyond SICK and TIRED. So help me with your thoughts in becoming strong and well and healthy again. I REALLY need all the support I can get.
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
Help protect your PC with Virus Guard from MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] OT: how liberated New Zealand is…..
Date: November 10, 2005 at 5:28:55 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
See, new Zealand is so liberated, this is what we do on the weekends….
(I have yet to pop in and check out their buds…….)
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] : One Life: Detox or Die
Date: November 10, 2005 at 4:19:36 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Well if we are talking about a guy who wants to drill holes in his head then
I have a feeling even HE didn’t have any idea what he was experiencing!!!
K
—–Original Message—–
From: shakti@photon.net [mailto:shakti@photon.net]
Sent: Thursday, 10 November 2005 10:15 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] : One Life: Detox or Die
I watched it last night.  I have to be honest, I didn’t see a whole lot of
difference between herion addicts and alcohol addicts.  In the addictive
stage, which probably hits you a lot faster with herion.
But, once you start hitting bottom, it looks a lot the same.
The actual session part was a but anti-climactic for me.  And, it seemed,
I do’nt know, kind of “messy” in there…not a super pleasant
environment…at least not what I was expecting.  I thought the enviroment
would be more warm and fuzzy
It just seemed like I had no idea what he was experiencing – I wish that
would have been elaborated on – then all of a sudden, after his days of
rest, months later he says his brain is “rewired.”
Maybe that’s all there is to it or was to it for him.
Not a critique or even an opinion – just the contrast on what I saw and
expected.
brenda
———————————————————–
WebMail provided by Photon.Net – http://www.photon.net/
Nationwide internet access, thousands of dial-up numbers!
Web hosting, multimedia broadcasting, e-commerce, and more.
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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I will always think good for you
Date: November 10, 2005 at 2:05:12 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
  Hey Preston,
 You are in my thoughts. The candle I lit for you is red and yellow,..fire and earth and it sits in a brass cobra.
 I am thinking of you becoming,..strong,..well and healthy. The flame of your candle is beautiful,..it will burn all
 night.
 Be well brother.
                                                        with love Jasen
From: Preston Peet
    I’m waaaaaay beyond SICK and TIRED. So help me with your thoughts in becoming strong and well and healthy again. I REALLY need all the support I can get.
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Matt
Date: November 9, 2005 at 11:01:05 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
http://www.becomewhole.co.uk/media_detoxordie76399.htm
There you go! Hope it works for you
From: brenda brewer <shakti@photon.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] A yellow Candle and a prayer for Preston
Date: November 9, 2005 at 10:37:29 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Mother, Father God
Essence of Peace and Life Itself
Please make your presence known to Preston to night
A slight opening in his heart
To feel the warmth in the crack of light
My love to you , my friend.  Let us know how you are doing when you get a chance.
brenda
Shakti
Vocalist/Lyricist
House, Soul, Background vocals
From: Carol Ann <saffireskyes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] please think good for me the next week or two
Date: November 9, 2005 at 7:07:53 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Best wishes Peet,
Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>Is your success contingent upon whether someone else is being “nice” to you. <
>No, but it helps having someone being supportive around.
Yes, Preston, having supportative people around you does help.
Don’t let the lack of it, in the event it should wane,   keep you from your achieving your goal.
Keep your power, man.
My Best wishes and warm regards,
Carol
Peace and love,
Preston Peet
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —–
From: Carol Ann
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 11:48 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] please think good for me the next week or two
Preston wrote:
“so I’m going to be a bit ill for a few days I suspect”
????????????????????????????????????????????????????
“I’m waaaaaay beyond SICK and TIRED”
…so PLEASE all, keep me in your thoughts
…please think good for me
…So help me with your thoughts
Preston, you have begun as of today an attempt to “cut”  your opiate intake.  Which of your two “statements” or affirmations,  (in bold) would you choose to begin and live your  experience. They are conflicting.
Is your success contingent upon whether someone else is being “nice” to you.
Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Hi all,
    I am, beginning today, in an attempt to totally cut my opiate intake, sans ibogaine since I cannot at ALL afford anymore of it. So, my plan is to drastically cut my intake of MS-Contins (having now run out of dilaudid, and still have a week and a half before my next doc’s appointment) so I’m going to be a bit ill for a few days I suspect- but V has kindly offered to be “nice” to me during this attempt, so PLEASE all, keep me in your thoughts. I did it with methadone, kicking cold turkey, and have done it more than once with heroin, all without the help of ibogaine or anything at all but V, so why the hell not do it successfully with prescribed meds too, right?
    So again, please think good for mefor the next week or two. V’s been out of town since Friday in California, taking a break from NYC and from ME (god that hurts I have to admit, but it’s totally understandable after 9 years with no breaks at all from one another beyond a day or two the whole time so I’m dealing with it well, taking the view that ok, so I have had my own break, sorta since I’ve had a burlesque dancer friend staying in our back room since V left and whol leaves for Berlin tomorrow), and V returns this afternoon (god damn it I can’t freakin’ wait to see/smell/touch her), so I start today in getting at least down to the barest minimum if not getting totally off this stuff for a while.
    I’m waaaaaay beyond SICK and TIRED. So help me with your thoughts in becoming strong and well and healthy again. I REALLY need all the support I can get.
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
Best regards,
Carol
_______________________________
Never Accept Only Two Choices in Life.
The problems of Today cannot be solved by the same thinking that created them.
-Al Einstein.
Yahoo! FareChase – Search multiple travel sites in one click.
Best regards,
Carol
_______________________________
Never Accept Only Two Choices in Life.
The problems of Today cannot be solved by the same thinking that created them.
-Al Einstein.
Yahoo! FareChase – Search multiple travel sites in one click.
From: “Matthew Shriver” <matt@itsupport.net>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] : One Life: Detox or Die
Date: November 9, 2005 at 4:50:14 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Will someone post the streaming video link?  I registered on that site
multiple times with multiple addresses and never got it.
—–Original Message—–
From: shakti@photon.net [mailto:shakti@photon.net]
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 2:15 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] : One Life: Detox or Die
I watched it last night.  I have to be honest, I didn’t see a whole lot of
difference between herion addicts and alcohol addicts.  In the addictive
stage, which probably hits you a lot faster with herion.
But, once you start hitting bottom, it looks a lot the same.
The actual session part was a but anti-climactic for me.  And, it seemed,
I do’nt know, kind of “messy” in there…not a super pleasant
environment…at least not what I was expecting.  I thought the enviroment
would be more warm and fuzzy
It just seemed like I had no idea what he was experiencing – I wish that
would have been elaborated on – then all of a sudden, after his days of
rest, months later he says his brain is “rewired.”
Maybe that’s all there is to it or was to it for him.
Not a critique or even an opinion – just the contrast on what I saw and
expected.
brenda
———————————————————–
WebMail provided by Photon.Net – http://www.photon.net/
Nationwide internet access, thousands of dial-up numbers!
Web hosting, multimedia broadcasting, e-commerce, and more.
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From: shakti@photon.net
Subject: [Ibogaine] : One Life: Detox or Die
Date: November 9, 2005 at 4:15:09 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I watched it last night.  I have to be honest, I didn’t see a whole lot of
difference between herion addicts and alcohol addicts.  In the addictive
stage, which probably hits you a lot faster with herion.
But, once you start hitting bottom, it looks a lot the same.
The actual session part was a but anti-climactic for me.  And, it seemed,
I do’nt know, kind of “messy” in there…not a super pleasant
environment…at least not what I was expecting.  I thought the enviroment
would be more warm and fuzzy
It just seemed like I had no idea what he was experiencing – I wish that
would have been elaborated on – then all of a sudden, after his days of
rest, months later he says his brain is “rewired.”
Maybe that’s all there is to it or was to it for him.
Not a critique or even an opinion – just the contrast on what I saw and
expected.
brenda
———————————————————–
WebMail provided by Photon.Net – http://www.photon.net/
Nationwide internet access, thousands of dial-up numbers!
Web hosting, multimedia broadcasting, e-commerce, and more.
 /]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
 \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Bwiti music
Date: November 9, 2005 at 4:06:50 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Matt,
I don’t think I ever did. I haven’t done any big sessions since ’99 and the low dose ones have mostly been hanging out with a friend. From what I recall the music is loud, exciting and laden with symbolism. Mostly it seemed louder than on the Smithsonian cd, though iboga makes things loud anyway. I translated an account including musical stuff for Gerard in France some years ago. You can read it if you go to www.iboga.org/us/etable_m.htm and look for the “3 nights of Ngoze,” there are interesting things about the music and what it means. Also some pieces from French writers about the ceremony which are good and not enough read, imo.
What I do remember is the Bwiti harp and this big lump of wood called the mobokaka. The guys whack it 3 times with another stick and if it makes a good sound all will go well with your initiation. If not…oh well! Symbolically, it represents the beginning of the world. Bwiti initiation is a classic rebirth ceremony so I’d say any music that represents birth or rebirth to you personally would be good music. Like I said before, remember sounds get louder on ibogaine. You may wish you hadn’t put that Metallica cd on when you’re lying ataxic in bed unable to move!
Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: matthew zielinski [mailto:mattzielinski@hotmail.com]
Sent: 09 November 2005 18:15
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Bwiti music
Hi Nick
Since you been initiated in the Cameroon and have taken ibogaine in “normal” settings I was wondering if you can elaborate on the music during your initiation in Africa.
I was talking once to Steven Anker and he said music was the most important part of the ceremony during his initiation
Did you ever listen to that cd while under the influence of iboga>?
With love
Matt
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Bwiti music
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 17:47:06 -0000
Hey Matt,
I’ve got it! And I like it! If someone wasn’t into Bwiti I guess they’d possibly label it “new age twiddly” but I think it would be good to have on an iboga journey. I don’t know of any other Bwiti music compilations available although there’s a load of clips gathered by Uwe Maas (maybe another spelling) online somewhere.
Hey Preston,
Good luck with your cutting down, man. You are in my thoughts, whether you believe it or not (!), and I do wish you well and hope things will be good for you.
Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: matthew zielinski [mailto:mattzielinski@hotmail.com]
Sent: 09 November 2005 16:49
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Bwiti music
Hi people
I was wondering if anybody here has purchased ” Music from an Equatorial Microcosm: Fang Bwiti Music from Gabon with Mbiri Selections” from worldmusicstore.com
I know the Bwiti place a great deal of emphasis on music during their inition so I have decided to order it and experiment with it on my upcoming journey.
If anybody knows of any other bwiti music cd’s for sale please let me know
With love
Matt
Free yourself from those irritating pop-up ads with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] please think good for me the next week or two
Date: November 9, 2005 at 3:57:33 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Is your success contingent upon whether someone else is being “nice” to you. <
No, but it helps having someone being supportive around.
Peace and love,
Preston Peet
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —–
From: Carol Ann
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 11:48 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] please think good for me the next week or two
Preston wrote:
“so I’m going to be a bit ill for a few days I suspect”
????????????????????????????????????????????????????
“I’m waaaaaay beyond SICK and TIRED”
…so PLEASE all, keep me in your thoughts
…please think good for me
…So help me with your thoughts
Preston, you have begun as of today an attempt to “cut”  your opiate intake.  Which of your two “statements” or affirmations,  (in bold) would you choose to begin and live your  experience. They are conflicting.
Is your success contingent upon whether someone else is being “nice” to you.
Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Hi all,
    I am, beginning today, in an attempt to totally cut my opiate intake, sans ibogaine since I cannot at ALL afford anymore of it. So, my plan is to drastically cut my intake of MS-Contins (having now run out of dilaudid, and still have a week and a half before my next doc’s appointment) so I’m going to be a bit ill for a few days I suspect- but V has kindly offered to be “nice” to me during this attempt, so PLEASE all, keep me in your thoughts. I did it with methadone, kicking cold turkey, and have done it more than once with heroin, all without the help of ibogaine or anything at all but V, so why the hell not do it successfully with prescribed meds too, right?
    So again, please think good for mefor the next week or two. V’s been out of town since Friday in California, taking a break from NYC and from ME (god that hurts I have to admit, but it’s totally understandable after 9 years with no breaks at all from one another beyond a day or two the whole time so I’m dealing with it well, taking the view that ok, so I have had my own break, sorta since I’ve had a burlesque dancer friend staying in our back room since V left and whol leaves for Berlin tomorrow), and V returns this afternoon (god damn it I can’t freakin’ wait to see/smell/touch her), so I start today in getting at least down to the barest minimum if not getting totally off this stuff for a while.
    I’m waaaaaay beyond SICK and TIRED. So help me with your thoughts in becoming strong and well and healthy again. I REALLY need all the support I can get.
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
Best regards,
Carol
_______________________________
Never Accept Only Two Choices in Life.
The problems of Today cannot be solved by the same thinking that created them.
-Al Einstein.
Yahoo! FareChase – Search multiple travel sites in one click.
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Quote from the ‘Power of Now’ sums up my recent situation
Date: November 9, 2005 at 3:47:06 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
if someone loves you they want you to have a life separate from your relationship.<
I Have to admit I’m finding that very difficult in my own life to deal with, knowing the truth of it but still finding it hard to accept. But, as that serenity prayer goes….
😉
Peace and love,
Preston
—– Original Message —– From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 8:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Quote from the ‘Power of Now’ sums up my recent situation
Alma, I am not Brenda but I hope you don’t mind me putting my 2 cents worth in.
If I understand you correctly the man you have been in a relationship with for many years is leaving or wants to leave you for another. Correct?
This happened to me and I was DEVASTATED!!! I really felt like I could not go on without this man and above all that I thought he left me because I was not doing something right or I was not pretty enough. These feelings made the fact of him leaving even worse.
I cried and begged him, stayed fucked up out of my head, stalked him and his new girlfriend and none of it made me feel better!
Well, time did take care of the hurt but I grieved losing him for about an entire year or maybe more.
Gradually I began to listen to others and listen to my common sense. I had been addicted to that man as much as you can be addicted to anything. I began to realize this and also realized that I had done nothing wrong. The relationship was destined to a painful ending because I catered to and loved this man too much! I loved him more than I loved myself! I did not have the power to make him love me. He couldn’t love a servant, a person (me) who molded my entire life around him. I think if I did anything wrong it was I smothered him to death.
I know now that healthy love does not try to control. A healthy love lets you be yourself, does not demand from you, if someone loves you they want you to have a life separate from your relationship. Two people who love each other should love each other side by side….not with one on pedestal and the other doing all the giving.
It really hurt me that he left for another woman too. An older, (very much older)! not too pretty woman. I thought that I must be less desirable than she but that was wrong too!
Hang in there! Stay tough and remember this too shall pass.
Callie
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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Full BBC Documentary Online: One Life: Detox or Die – The life…
Date: November 9, 2005 at 3:19:27 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I can’t get the steam video to work. I have Macromedia Flash 8. I will keep trying though. Would LOVE to see and comment on this documentary.
Callie
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: [DrugWar] please think good for me the next week or two
Date: November 9, 2005 at 2:59:04 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
awwwwww! that is cool!
From: “Robert Merkin” <bobmerk@earthlink.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] RE: [DrugWar] please think good for me the next week or two
Date: November 9, 2005 at 1:50:03 PM EST
To: drugwar@mindvox.com, ibogaine@mindvox.com, “ptpeet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
whoever sent us here
gave us a central nervous system
from radio shack
a real piece of crap
manufactured in a sweatshop
in malaysia
by 11-year-old prisoners
expected to endure
being yanked out of the birth canal
slapped around and dunked in icy water
schoolyard bullies
broken hearts
high explosive artillery shells
a couple of years in prison
the death of john lennon glenn gould jimi hendrix janis joplin
expected to endure
george bush nixon cheney rumsfeld
shrieking pain
from toe to brain
loneliness loss grief giuliani donald trump
cnn fox the new york post the boston herald
rupert murdock and your sister’s husband gerald
so a merciful god
gave us hard liquor
cheap american beer
pot hashish bhang khif ganja
smack opium laudanum codeine morphine methadone oxycodon
powder cocaine crack cocaine
caffeine wormwood khat
betel nuts
diazepam ketamine quaaludes
methamphetamine
miltown
gasoline vapors
Lethe
Soma
Lotus
lysergic acid dyethelamide-25
whipped cream cans
red devil paint thinner
magic mushrooms peyote datura mandrake
model airplane glue rubber cement
and cigarettes
ah
my turn at the karaoke microphone
i’d like to dedicate this next song
to my friend preston:
once i was happy
i had a sweet wife
i had enough money
to last me for life
then i got drunk
and i went on a spree
with a woman who smoked
and drank whiskey
cigareets and whiskey
and wild wild women
they’ll drive you crazy
they’ll drive you insane
cigareets and whiskey
and wild wild women
they’ll drive you crazy
they’ll drive you insane
thank you
is this some kind of joke?
pain
craving
writhing torment
surrounded by an ocean of cheap shit
to make it go away
and an ocean of cops
to make you go away
who ordered that?
man that is soooooooooo fucked up
yo preston
i don’t care what you do
i just care about you
doobeedoobeedoo
prayer?
magickal incantations?
a rain dance?
navajo healing ceremony?
a laying on of hands?
an exorcism?
idioglossia?
what the hell
you got ’em
abracadbra mumbo jumbo
vikkie come home to preston
cook him some file gumbo
turn off the light
hold preston tight
take him to roseland
then dance with him
the tango
dance with him
the samba
dance with him
the conga
dance with him
the rhumba
dance with him
the polka
dance with him
the mambo
—– Original Message —–
From: Preston Peet
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com;drugwar@mindvox.com
Sent: 11/9/2005 11:24:55 AM
Subject: [DrugWar] please think good for me the next week or two
Hi all,
    I am, beginning today, in an attempt to totally cut my opiate intake, sans ibogaine since I cannot at ALL afford anymore of it. So, my plan is to drastically cut my intake of MS-Contins (having now run out of dilaudid, and still have a week and a half before my next doc’s appointment) so I’m going to be a bit ill for a few days I suspect- but V has kindly offered to be “nice” to me during this attempt, so PLEASE all, keep me in your thoughts. I did it with methadone, kicking cold turkey, and have done it more than once with heroin, all without the help of ibogaine or anything at all but V, so why the hell not do it successfully with prescribed meds too, right?
    So again, please think good for mefor the next week or two. V’s been out of town since Friday in California, taking a break from NYC and from ME (god that hurts I have to admit, but it’s totally understandable after 9 years with no breaks at all from one another beyond a day or two the whole time so I’m dealing with it well, taking the view that ok, so I have had my own break, sorta since I’ve had a burlesque dancer friend staying in our back room since V left and whol leaves for Berlin tomorrow), and V returns this afternoon (god damn it I can’t freakin’ wait to see/smell/touch her), so I start today in getting at least down to the barest minimum if not getting totally off this stuff for a while.
    I’m waaaaaay beyond SICK and TIRED. So help me with your thoughts in becoming strong and well and healthy again. I REALLY need all the support I can get.
Peace and love,
Preston
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Trepanation??? vector wtf??? lol
Date: November 9, 2005 at 2:04:22 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Huh? What the heck is trepanation???? Drilling holes in his head??? Wtf??
Yes report please lol
k
—–Original Message—–
From: Vector Vector [mailto:vector620022002@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, 10 November 2005 8:00 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Full BBC Documentary Online: One Life: Detox or Die
– The life of a heroin/methadone addict in Glascow, the cost of his
dependence and the hope offered by ibogaine/eboga.
The guy who made the movie, David Scott is on mindvox and talked about
it almost 2 years ago when he was making it, finishing it, his stories
were going to the media, as far as I remember they were a little over
the top sensationalistic with him building up to either detoxing or
dying. reeldeathfilms. The last conversations I remember here he was
talking about trepanation and drilling holes in his head, probably also
in front of a camera.
Did you want a written report? 😉
.:vector:.
— Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi List,
I have had some interesting feedback on this documentary.
Any more comments?
Lee
Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi List,
Just to let you know I have a link on my providers page and links
page for the full BBC documentary of:
“Detox or Die – David Graham Scott has been addicted to drugs for
nearly 20 years. Watch this BBC documentary about his fight to beat
his addiction and treatment provided by Edward Conn.”
www.my-eboga.com/providers.html
This documentary can also be accessed directly via:
www.becomewhole.co.uk
Lee
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over
a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for
those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over
a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for
those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
__________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! – Make it your home page!
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Full BBC Documentary Online: One Life: Detox or Die – The life of a heroin/methadone addict in Glascow, the cost of his dependence and the hope offered by ibogaine/eboga.
Date: November 9, 2005 at 1:59:35 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
The guy who made the movie, David Scott is on mindvox and talked about
it almost 2 years ago when he was making it, finishing it, his stories
were going to the media, as far as I remember they were a little over
the top sensationalistic with him building up to either detoxing or
dying. reeldeathfilms. The last conversations I remember here he was
talking about trepanation and drilling holes in his head, probably also
in front of a camera.
Did you want a written report? 😉
.:vector:.
— Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi List,
I have had some interesting feedback on this documentary.
Any more comments?
Lee
Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi List,
Just to let you know I have a link on my providers page and links
page for the full BBC documentary of:
“Detox or Die – David Graham Scott has been addicted to drugs for
nearly 20 years. Watch this BBC documentary about his fight to beat
his addiction and treatment provided by Edward Conn.”
www.my-eboga.com/providers.html
This documentary can also be accessed directly via:
www.becomewhole.co.uk
Lee
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over
a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for
those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over
a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for
those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
__________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! – Make it your home page!
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
 /]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] please think good for me the next week or two
Date: November 9, 2005 at 1:56:24 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In a message dated 11/9/2005 10:25:14 AM Central Standard Time, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:
I REALLY need all the support I can get.
You got it here Preston. If you need a human voice drop me a e-mail and I will send you my phone number. Already said one prayer for you but will continue to include you in my prayers until you kick this demon.
Loads of love and support,
Callie
From: Day Brown <daybrown@artelco.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] tribalism
Date: November 9, 2005 at 2:45:25 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
By all accounts, hominids evolved in small tribal units. The DNA
suggests Africans in tribes of 75-150, Native Europeans in villages
of 150-300, other races in similar ranges.
“The Forest People” is an anthro classic on the Mbuti pygmy of the
Congo, written in the 1940’s before their way of life was disrupted
by what passes for civilization. They did *not* have marriage. Some
folks, at puberty, did find some one to hut up with, and stayed with
that person thru out life; another 1/3 were totally promiscuous all
thru life, and the remaining third changed phase or went thru what we
now call serial monogamy from time to time.
But whatever your trip was, nobody was saying that you should be doing
it differently; there was no ‘nuclear family model’. It didnt matter to
the kids who parents were having sex with, they still lived there, were
still around to mentor, and folks just didnt go thru emotional crisis
whenever anyone changed phase. The tribe was a much more effective
social safety net than seen in ‘civilized’ cultures.
JP Mallory, “In Search of the Indo-Europeans” discusses PIE, or Proto-
Indo-European, the original language of the Aryans reconstructed by
computers comparing root words in all the Indo-European languages. It
turns out, that like the Mbuti, there is no word for marriage.
They’ve found hundreds of village tels and dozens of chalcolithic era
towns of these people in the riverine floodplains that empty into the
west end of the Black sea. Turns out, they didnt have a word for war
either. They didnt leave any evidence for war. Women were not property.
Men who dont own women, dont go to war over them.
Nevertheless, as with the Mbuti, coupled figures of clay and stone have
been found. However, the sex is ambiguous or either both female. How it
worked is seen in the digs. They lived in communal houses. There were no
miserable hovels. Nor palaces. From the quantity of loom weights, there
seems to be a very active fabrics operation at levels several times more
efficient than cottage industry.
The nuclear family model didnt appear until after the invention of the
bronze axe, so that a couple could go into the wilderness, build a log
cabin, and raise their kids on land they’d cleared themselves. Unlike
today, however, there was no search for ‘the perfect mate’. When a tribe
only has a few dozen possible choices, nobody looks for perfection. Then
too, in an era when people rarely lived past 40, “til death do you part”
didnt take all that long.
Today, part of the problem is, that we live long enough to grow and come
to new conclusions about what we want to do, and those changes arent that
well coordinated with the changes a mate is going thru. I daresay, that
if we now looked at the couples who’d been together for 50 years, we’d
find that half the time they come from obscure rural areas where choices
were much more limited, even tho those who live outside urban areas are
only a small percentage of the total population. If you want a lifetime
commitment, move out of the city.
The nuclear family model was part of the extended family, and in eras
when each family had lots of kids, that added up to clans that provided
much more of a social safety net than seen today… with families having
on 1-2 kids, the extended clan is now no more than a dozen. That is no
where near enough people to offer support when a death or relationship comes apart, which is why the experience is so traumatic. Furthermore,
the larger organizations, the religions, governments, transnationals…
all like it that way because it makes individuals so much more reliant
on their services. Thus, they glorify the nuclear family model despite
its inappropriateness to empower their own organizations.
Both the field studies of primates and hominid history shows how young
males are ejected from the group by the alpha males to controll access
to the females. Thus it is that men are adapted to living in the world
alone, just as they had in the jungle. But females’re never left alone;
and thus we see their coupled figures among Chalcolithic artifacts. One
charming example of this is at http://anzi.biz/artifax.htm ; its about
4000 years old, done in a naturalistic style going way beyond anything
from Egypt or Babylon. It relates to something else Mallory noted.
The only term for an authority figure in PIE is “raj”. As in arrange,
regulate, region, regime… or in sanskrit, latin, greek- raja, regina,
aregon. And Mallory finds that it means a female tribal leader of great
wisdom and mana. which is to say, a “Raj” is a “witch”. Which makes even
more sense when you consider that the term came from the lands around
the Transylvanian mountains. There’s a damn good reason those mountains
were so spooky.
But whereas the other tribal units were all run by men, and women then
competed with each other for male attention and perks, here the tribes
were run by women, who were there to support each other during periods
of emotional crisis. And I do mean “support”. Another thing we see in
PIE, is that the words for important resources, fields, crops, herds,
and houses all had female suffixes. Women owned and managed the economic
infrastructure, and did it so well that it created the world’s 1st great
economic free market empire with unprecedented innovation.
This is being reconstructed now. And this, not with a male relationship,
is where women will find emotional as well as economic security. Its not
that they lived like nuns. The witches never did. They enjoyed company and cooperation with men, but never invested that much emotionally in
any one man. And inasmuch as women are competing with men so much more
in all economic fields, the number of men able to offer economic support
and security is nowhere near the demand. Which is why men of 50 can find
women of 20 desperate to go along with them.
This is not a social revolution that women can stop, if only because so
many other women are pushing it; the thing that women can do, which they
have done since time immemorial, when they were sold like livestock, is
to adapt to the new social milieu of whoever they live with.
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From: shakti@photon.net
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] please think good for me the next week or two
Date: November 9, 2005 at 1:16:00 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Me too!  When I get home I’m going to light a candle for you…
Love,
brenda
OH man im with u bro
god damm wd’s!!!
As soon as im done writing this im going to get out a candle i have saved
up for these special occasions and light it with all my thoughts projected
to you my friend (oh no wait better put it out before we offend some
people here)
we been having this wicked stormy weather for the past two days so i will
put all my effort to harness that enrgy convert it to love and guidance
and channel it ur way
you are in good hands my friend
and i know when u sick u dont give a fuk about all this universe bullshit
but give it a shot whenever  u can…..i think u might get a suprise, and
dont worry if u dont get it at first try or on ur hundreth try…just know
there are people who are with u all the way….BELIVE IT!!
with love
matt
   From: “Preston Peet”
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ,
Subject: [Ibogaine] please think good for me the next week or two
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 11:24:54 -0500
    Hi all,     I am, beginning today, in an attempt to totally cut my
opiate intake, sans ibogaine since I cannot at ALL afford anymore of
it. So, my plan is to drastically cut my intake of MS-Contins (having
now run out of dilaudid, and still have a week and a half before my
next doc’s appointment) so I’m going to be a bit ill for a few days I
suspect- but V has kindly offered to be “nice” to me during this
attempt, so PLEASE all, keep me in your thoughts. I did it with
methadone, kicking cold turkey, and have done it more than once with
heroin, all without the help of ibogaine or anything at all but V, so
why the hell not do it successfully with prescribed meds too, right?
  So again, please think good for mefor the next week or two. V’s
been out of town since Friday in California, taking a break from NYC
and from ME (god that hurts I have to admit, but it’s totally
understandable after 9 years with no breaks at all from one another
beyond a day or two the whole time so I’m dealing with it well,
taking the view that ok, so I have had my own break, sorta since I’ve
had a burlesque dancer friend staying in our back room since V left
and whol leaves for Berlin tomorrow), and V returns this afternoon
(god damn it I can’t freakin’ wait to see/smell/touch her), so I
start today in getting at least down to the barest minimum if not
getting totally off this stuff for a while.     I’m waaaaaay beyond
SICK and TIRED. So help me with your thoughts in becoming strong and
well and healthy again. I REALLY need all the support I can get.
Peace and love,
Preston    “Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment
is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines   ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
Help protect your PC with Virus Guard from   MSN Premium: Join now and get
the first two months FREE*
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From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Bwiti music
Date: November 9, 2005 at 1:14:40 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Nick
Since you been initiated in the Cameroon and have taken ibogaine in “normal” settings I was wondering if you can elaborate on the music during your initiation in Africa.
I was talking once to Steven Anker and he said music was the most important part of the ceremony during his initiation
Did you ever listen to that cd while under the influence of iboga>?
With love
Matt
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Bwiti music
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 17:47:06 -0000
Hey Matt,
I’ve got it! And I like it! If someone wasn’t into Bwiti I guess they’d possibly label it “new age twiddly” but I think it would be good to have on an iboga journey. I don’t know of any other Bwiti music compilations available although there’s a load of clips gathered by Uwe Maas (maybe another spelling) online somewhere.
Hey Preston,
Good luck with your cutting down, man. You are in my thoughts, whether you believe it or not (!), and I do wish you well and hope things will be good for you.
Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: matthew zielinski [mailto:mattzielinski@hotmail.com]
Sent: 09 November 2005 16:49
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Bwiti music
Hi people
I was wondering if anybody here has purchased ” Music from an Equatorial Microcosm: Fang Bwiti Music from Gabon with Mbiri Selections” from worldmusicstore.com
I know the Bwiti place a great deal of emphasis on music during their inition so I have decided to order it and experiment with it on my upcoming journey.
If anybody knows of any other bwiti music cd’s for sale please let me know
With love
Matt
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From: shakti@photon.net
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] please think good for me the next week or two
Date: November 9, 2005 at 1:14:30 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Preston,
Hang in there.  I would try to have a “comfort plan” ready.  For me, it
was lot’s of miso soup, chamomile tea, laptop with me in the bedroom, TV
and telephone.  My BF did leave the house to work during the day but made
sure I had access to all my comfort stuff.
I don’t know what that looks like for you but you probably have some idea.
Vent if you need to or whatever – withdrawl is a real mind-fuck – I hope
it’s not too hard on you.  Having said that, I’m open to the possibity
that it maight go relatively smooth.  I have hope.
brenda
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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] please think good for me the next week or two
Date: November 9, 2005 at 1:10:44 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Preston.
All the best to you.  I just got a new crystal grid sent to me, it’s MAJOR TLC material so I will print out your pic and plonk you under the crystals.  As my mate says, if you feel warmth, just smile and say hello.  Although I would imagine you’ll be feeling all sorts so it may go un noticed or mistaken for wd’s . lol
KIA KAHA (stay strong)
Kirk xxx
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com] 
Sent: Thursday, 10 November 2005 5:25 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com; drugwar@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] please think good for me the next week or two
Hi all,
    I am, beginning today, in an attempt to totally cut my opiate intake, sans ibogaine since I cannot at ALL afford anymore of it. So, my plan is to drastically cut my intake of MS-Contins (having now run out of dilaudid, and still have a week and a half before my next doc’s appointment) so I’m going to be a bit ill for a few days I suspect- but V has kindly offered to be “nice” to me during this attempt, so PLEASE all, keep me in your thoughts. I did it with methadone, kicking cold turkey, and have done it more than once with heroin, all without the help of ibogaine or anything at all but V, so why the hell not do it successfully with prescribed meds too, right?
    So again, please think good for mefor the next week or two. V’s been out of town since Friday in California, taking a break from NYC and from ME (god that hurts I have to admit, but it’s totally understandable after 9 years with no breaks at all from one another beyond a day or two the whole time so I’m dealing with it well, taking the view that ok, so I have had my own break, sorta since I’ve had a burlesque dancer friend staying in our back room since V left and whol leaves for Berlin tomorrow), and V returns this afternoon (god damn it I can’t freakin’ wait to see/smell/touch her), so I start today in getting at least down to the barest minimum if not getting totally off this stuff for a while.
    I’m waaaaaay beyond SICK and TIRED. So help me with your thoughts in becoming strong and well and healthy again. I REALLY need all the support I can get.
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” 
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Bwiti music
Date: November 9, 2005 at 12:59:46 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I don’t know if they’re still selling it (and it may be the same cd that you guys are talking about) but Smithsonian Folkways used to sell a cd of Bwiti music. Might be worth looking into.
Hey Matt,
I’ve got it! And I like it! If someone wasn’t into Bwiti I guess they’d possibly label it “new age twiddly” but I think it would be good to have on an iboga journey. I don’t know of any other Bwiti music compilations available although there’s a load of clips gathered by Uwe Maas (maybe another spelling) online somewhere.
  Hey Preston,
Good luck with your cutting down, man. You are in my thoughts, whether you believe it or not (!), and I do wish you well and hope things will be good for you.
Nick
     —–Original Message—–
   *From:* matthew zielinski [mailto:mattzielinski@hotmail.com]
   *Sent:* 09 November 2005 16:49
   *To:* ibogaine@mindvox.com
   *Subject:* [Ibogaine] Bwiti music
   Hi people
   I was wondering if anybody here has purchased ” *Music from an
   Equatorial Microcosm: Fang Bwiti Music from Gabon with Mbiri
   Selections” from worldmusicstore.com*
   *I know the Bwiti place a great deal of emphasis on music during
   their inition so I have decided to order it and experiment with it
   on my upcoming journey.*
   *If anybody knows of any other bwiti music cd’s for sale please let
   me know*
   *With love*
   *Matt*
   ————————————————————————
   Free yourself from those irritating pop-up ads with MSN Premium:
   <http://g.msn.com/8HMAENCA/2734??PS=47575>Join now and get the first
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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Bwiti music
Date: November 9, 2005 at 12:47:06 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hey Matt,
I’ve got it! And I like it! If someone wasn’t into Bwiti I guess they’d possibly label it “new age twiddly” but I think it would be good to have on an iboga journey. I don’t know of any other Bwiti music compilations available although there’s a load of clips gathered by Uwe Maas (maybe another spelling) online somewhere.
Hey Preston,
Good luck with your cutting down, man. You are in my thoughts, whether you believe it or not (!), and I do wish you well and hope things will be good for you.
Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: matthew zielinski [mailto:mattzielinski@hotmail.com]
Sent: 09 November 2005 16:49
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Bwiti music
Hi people
I was wondering if anybody here has purchased ” Music from an Equatorial Microcosm: Fang Bwiti Music from Gabon with Mbiri Selections” from worldmusicstore.com
I know the Bwiti place a great deal of emphasis on music during their inition so I have decided to order it and experiment with it on my upcoming journey.
If anybody knows of any other bwiti music cd’s for sale please let me know
With love
Matt
Free yourself from those irritating pop-up ads with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] please think good for me the next week or two
Date: November 9, 2005 at 12:07:38 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
OH man im with u bro
god damm wd’s!!!
As soon as im done writing this im going to get out a candle i have saved up for these special occasions and light it with all my thoughts projected to you my friend (oh no wait better put it out before we offend some people here)
we been having this wicked stormy weather for the past two days so i will put all my effort to harness that enrgy convert it to love and guidance and channel it ur way
you are in good hands my friend
and i know when u sick u dont give a fuk about all this universe bullshit but give it a shot whenever  u can…..i think u might get a suprise, and dont worry if u dont get it at first try or on ur hundreth try…just know there are people who are with u all the way….BELIVE IT!!
with love
matt
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] please think good for me the next week or two
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 11:24:54 -0500
Hi all,
    I am, beginning today, in an attempt to totally cut my opiate intake, sans ibogaine since I cannot at ALL afford anymore of it. So, my plan is to drastically cut my intake of MS-Contins (having now run out of dilaudid, and still have a week and a half before my next doc’s appointment) so I’m going to be a bit ill for a few days I suspect- but V has kindly offered to be “nice” to me during this attempt, so PLEASE all, keep me in your thoughts. I did it with methadone, kicking cold turkey, and have done it more than once with heroin, all without the help of ibogaine or anything at all but V, so why the hell not do it successfully with prescribed meds too, right?
    So again, please think good for mefor the next week or two. V’s been out of town since Friday in California, taking a break from NYC and from ME (god that hurts I have to admit, but it’s totally understandable after 9 years with no breaks at all from one another beyond a day or two the whole time so I’m dealing with it well, taking the view that ok, so I have had my own break, sorta since I’ve had a burlesque dancer friend staying in our back room since V left and whol leaves for Berlin tomorrow), and V returns this afternoon (god damn it I can’t freakin’ wait to see/smell/touch her), so I start today in getting at least down to the barest minimum if not getting totally off this stuff for a while.
    I’m waaaaaay beyond SICK and TIRED. So help me with your thoughts in becoming strong and well and healthy again. I REALLY need all the support I can get.
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
Help protect your PC with Virus Guard from MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Bwiti music
Date: November 9, 2005 at 11:49:13 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi people
I was wondering if anybody here has purchased ” Music from an Equatorial Microcosm: Fang Bwiti Music from Gabon with Mbiri Selections” from worldmusicstore.com
I know the Bwiti place a great deal of emphasis on music during their inition so I have decided to order it and experiment with it on my upcoming journey.
If anybody knows of any other bwiti music cd’s for sale please let me know
With love
Matt
Free yourself from those irritating pop-up ads with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: Carol Ann <saffireskyes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] please think good for me the next week or two
Date: November 9, 2005 at 11:48:01 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Preston wrote:
“so I’m going to be a bit ill for a few days I suspect”
????????????????????????????????????????????????????
“I’m waaaaaay beyond SICK and TIRED”
…so PLEASE all, keep me in your thoughts
…please think good for me
…So help me with your thoughts
Preston, you have begun as of today an attempt to “cut”  your opiate intake.  Which of your two “statements” or affirmations,  (in bold) would you choose to begin and live your  experience. They are conflicting.
Is your success contingent upon whether someone else is being “nice” to you.
Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Hi all,
    I am, beginning today, in an attempt to totally cut my opiate intake, sans ibogaine since I cannot at ALL afford anymore of it. So, my plan is to drastically cut my intake of MS-Contins (having now run out of dilaudid, and still have a week and a half before my next doc’s appointment) so I’m going to be a bit ill for a few days I suspect- but V has kindly offered to be “nice” to me during this attempt, so PLEASE all, keep me in your thoughts. I did it with methadone, kicking cold turkey, and have done it more than once with heroin, all without the help of ibogaine or anything at all but V, so why the hell not do it successfully with prescribed meds too, right?
    So again, please think good for mefor the next week or two. V’s been out of town since Friday in California, taking a break from NYC and from ME (god that hurts I have to admit, but it’s totally understandable after 9 years with no breaks at all from one another beyond a day or two the whole time so I’m dealing with it well, taking the view that ok, so I have had my own break, sorta since I’ve had a burlesque dancer friend staying in our back room since V left and whol leaves for Berlin tomorrow), and V returns this afternoon (god damn it I can’t freakin’ wait to see/smell/touch her), so I start today in getting at least down to the barest minimum if not getting totally off this stuff for a while.
    I’m waaaaaay beyond SICK and TIRED. So help me with your thoughts in becoming strong and well and healthy again. I REALLY need all the support I can get.
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
Best regards,
Carol
_______________________________
Never Accept Only Two Choices in Life.
The problems of Today cannot be solved by the same thinking that created them.
-Al Einstein.
Yahoo! FareChase – Search multiple travel sites in one click.
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] please think good for me the next week or two
Date: November 9, 2005 at 11:24:54 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi all,
    I am, beginning today, in an attempt to totally cut my opiate intake, sans ibogaine since I cannot at ALL afford anymore of it. So, my plan is to drastically cut my intake of MS-Contins (having now run out of dilaudid, and still have a week and a half before my next doc’s appointment) so I’m going to be a bit ill for a few days I suspect- but V has kindly offered to be “nice” to me during this attempt, so PLEASE all, keep me in your thoughts. I did it with methadone, kicking cold turkey, and have done it more than once with heroin, all without the help of ibogaine or anything at all but V, so why the hell not do it successfully with prescribed meds too, right?
    So again, please think good for mefor the next week or two. V’s been out of town since Friday in California, taking a break from NYC and from ME (god that hurts I have to admit, but it’s totally understandable after 9 years with no breaks at all from one another beyond a day or two the whole time so I’m dealing with it well, taking the view that ok, so I have had my own break, sorta since I’ve had a burlesque dancer friend staying in our back room since V left and whol leaves for Berlin tomorrow), and V returns this afternoon (god damn it I can’t freakin’ wait to see/smell/touch her), so I start today in getting at least down to the barest minimum if not getting totally off this stuff for a while.
    I’m waaaaaay beyond SICK and TIRED. So help me with your thoughts in becoming strong and well and healthy again. I REALLY need all the support I can get.
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Full BBC Documentary Online: One Life: Detox or Die – The life of a heroin/methadone addict in Glascow, the cost of his dependence and the hope offered by ibogaine/eboga.
Date: November 9, 2005 at 9:51:13 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi List,
I have had some interesting feedback on this documentary.
Any more comments?
Lee
Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi List,
Just to let you know I have a link on my providers page and links page for the full BBC documentary of:
“Detox or Die – David Graham Scott has been addicted to drugs for nearly 20 years. Watch this BBC documentary about his fight to beat his addiction and treatment provided by Edward Conn.”
www.my-eboga.com/providers.html
This documentary can also be accessed directly via:
www.becomewhole.co.uk
Lee
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Audio Visual materials re: ibogaine/eboga online
Date: November 9, 2005 at 6:51:06 AM EST
To: Ibogaine List <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Dear List,
Here is my present list of online Audio/Visual materials. Can anyone who knows of other Audio/Visual material “PLEASE” post details. I am trying to build up this area on the site.
www.my-eboga.com/links.html#audio-visual
BTW My requests for help usually fall on deaf ears. Those who feel they can help but think others will instead please note: they most likely won’t. The work here on this list, I would like to think, is a collaborative affair and the day in day out work I “try” to do is presently at zero renumeration to myself and has been for the past 3/4 years. If “anyone” can help me (non-financially speaking) from time to time I would very much appreciate it. I do not seek financial help. Thats in Gods hands more or less – he better take note soon! Unfortunately I am not very good at taking money from people. The guided weekends I am now posting on my site come at the princely sum of e200 – e230 euros per person and include mini-session, food, accomodation and guidance.
www.my-eboga.com/guidedsessions.html
Thanks,
Lee
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
From: gardenrestaurant@comcast.net
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Quote from the ‘Power of Now’ sums up my recent  situation
Date: November 8, 2005 at 10:27:49 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Callie,
your email made me feel not so lonely anymore .The man I was talking about is my husband of 30 years, when I was in Europe this summer he had an affair with a waitress of 19 years old, and now he is ready to join her in Russia and he think that is really the more natural think to do, I have to wait for him( if he is coming back, he is not even sure himself.)  he is calling this girl one hour or more every day .I hope he try to understand the pain that I feel but he think is again the more natural comportment in the world.Like I said before the pain come in waves sometime I feel good but after he start to talk about her again  the pain hit me like a bullet.I hope this too should pass, thanks again and God bless you
Alma
————– Original message ————–
Alma, I am not Brenda but I hope you don’t mind me putting my 2 cents worth in.
If I understand you correctly the man you have been in a relationship with for many years is leaving or wants to leave you for another. Correct?
This happened to me and I was DEVASTATED!!! I really felt like I could not go on without this man and above all that I thought he left me because I was not doing something right or I was not pretty enough. These feelings made the fact of him leaving even worse.
I cried and begged him, stayed fucked up out of my head, stalked him and his new girlfriend and none of it made me feel better!
Well, time did take care of the hurt but I grieved losing him for about an entire year or maybe more.
Gradually I began to listen to others and listen to my common sense. I had been addicted to that man as much as you can be addicted to anything. I began to realize this and also realized that I had done nothing wrong. The relationship was destined to a painful ending because I catered to and loved this man too much! I loved him more than I loved myself! I did not have the power to make him love me. He couldn’t love a servant, a person (me) who molded my entire life around him. I think if I did anything wrong it was I smothered him to death.
I know now that healthy love does not try to control. A healthy love lets you be yourself, does not demand from you, if someone loves you they want you to have a life separate from your relationship. Two people who love each other should love each other side by side….not with one on pedestal and the other doing all the giving.
It really hurt me that he left for another woman too. An older, (very much older)! not too pretty woman. I thought that I must be less desirable than she but that was wrong too!
Hang in there! Stay tough and remember this too shall pass.
Callie
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Quote from the ‘Power of Now’ sums up my recent  situation
Date: November 8, 2005 at 8:30:33 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Alma, I am not Brenda but I hope you don’t mind me putting my 2 cents worth in.
If I understand you correctly the man you have been in a relationship with for many years is leaving or wants to leave you for another. Correct?
This happened to me and I was DEVASTATED!!! I really felt like I could not go on without this man and above all that I thought he left me because I was not doing something right or I was not pretty enough. These feelings made the fact of him leaving even worse.
I cried and begged him, stayed fucked up out of my head, stalked him and his new girlfriend and none of it made me feel better!
Well, time did take care of the hurt but I grieved losing him for about an entire year or maybe more.
Gradually I began to listen to others and listen to my common sense. I had been addicted to that man as much as you can be addicted to anything. I began to realize this and also realized that I had done nothing wrong. The relationship was destined to a painful ending because I catered to and loved this man too much! I loved him more than I loved myself! I did not have the power to make him love me. He couldn’t love a servant, a person (me) who molded my entire life around him. I think if I did anything wrong it was I smothered him to death.
I know now that healthy love does not try to control. A healthy love lets you be yourself, does not demand from you, if someone loves you they want you to have a life separate from your relationship. Two people who love each other should love each other side by side….not with one on pedestal and the other doing all the giving.
It really hurt me that he left for another woman too. An older, (very much older)! not too pretty woman. I thought that I must be less desirable than she but that was wrong too!
Hang in there! Stay tough and remember this too shall pass.
Callie
From: gardenrestaurant@comcast.net
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Quote from the ‘Power of Now’ sums up my recent  situation
Date: November 8, 2005 at 6:22:07 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Brenda,
sometime I think maybe I am an addict to pain, why I don’t say enough, enough no more ,walk away, just stay in the moment but is coming like waves ,sometimes I feel completely free and sometimes is coming back again. I know the bliss of living in the present and really feeling alive, but my mind keep coming back to the same old story, I feel so much empathy with the suffering of all us here in this world I wish I could embrace everybody and say you are not alone
thanks again and I will sure read the power of now
Alma
————– Original message ————–
> Hi Alma,
>
> I would reiterate (I guess I am) this part:
>
> “You won’ t make that choice unless you
> are truly fed up with suffering, unless you have truly had enough. And you
> won’t be able to go through with it unless you access the power of the Now”
>
> It’s a practice and if we have a lot of trauma in our lives we may return
> to our old ways of thinking over and over until we have had “enough” and
> think to ourselves that there has got to be a better way and refuse to
> take any more suffering.
>
> Just do what you can. The answer is easy but unless you are ready to stop
> suffering you won’t be able to access it. It’s kind of like our
> addictions…they lie to us and we believe deep down inside that they are
> our only refuge from our pain. Then one day, some of us start waking up
> and realize it is a lie. Try reading “The Power of Now.”
>
> brenda
>
> > hi Brenda,
> > thank’s for your email I really appriciate your point of view, but what
> > about if you are in a relations with sombody who you trusted for many
> > years and suddenly he want to leave with another woman , I know this sound
> > really commun but it can be really painful ,how separate the problem with
> > the pain, please answer
> > Alma
> > ————– Original message ————–
> >
> >> This is pretty much how I feel…
> >>
> >> “When you create a problem, you create pain. All it takes is a simple
> >> choice, a simple decision: no matter what happens, I will create no more
> >> pain for myself. I will create no more problems. Although it is a simple
> >> choice, it is also very radical. You won’ t make that choice unless you
> >> are truly fed up with suffering, unless you have truly had enough. And
> >> you
> >> won’t be able to go through with it unless you access the power of the
> >> Now. If you create no more pain for yourself, then you create no more
> >> pain
> >> for others. You also no longer contaminate the beautiful Earth, your
> >> inner
> >> space, and the collective human psyche with the negativity of
> >> problem-making.”
> >>
> >> brenda
> >>
> >>
> >> ———————————————————–
> >> WebMail provided by Photon.Net – http://www.photon.net/
> >> Nationwide internet access, thousands of dial-up numbers!
> >> Web hosting, multimedia broadcasting, e-commerce, and more.
> >>
> >>
> >>
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> >> [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> >> http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> >> \]=———————————————————————=[/
> >>
> >>
>
>
>
> ———————————————————–
> WebMail provided by Photon.Net – http://www.photon.net/
> Nationwide internet access, thousands of dial-up numbers!
> Web hosting, multimedia broadcasting, e-commerce, and more.
>
>
>
> /]=———————————————————————=[\
> [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> \]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>
From: shakti@photon.net
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Quote from the ‘Power of Now’ sums up my recent  situation
Date: November 8, 2005 at 5:51:26 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Alma,
I would reiterate (I guess I am) this part:
“You won’ t make that choice unless you
are truly fed up with suffering, unless you have truly had enough. And you
won’t be able to go through with it unless you access the power of the Now”
It’s a practice and if we have a lot of trauma in our lives we may return
to our old ways of thinking over and over until we have had “enough” and
think to ourselves that there has got to be a better way and refuse to
take any more suffering.
Just do what you can.  The answer is easy but unless you are ready to stop
suffering you won’t be able to access it.  It’s kind of like our
addictions…they lie to us and we believe deep down inside that they are
our only refuge from our pain.  Then one day, some of us start waking up
and realize it is a lie.  Try reading “The Power of Now.”
brenda
hi Brenda,
thank’s for your email I really appriciate your point of view, but what
about if you are in a relations with sombody who you trusted for many
years and suddenly he want to leave with another woman , I know this sound
really commun but it can be really painful ,how separate the problem with
the pain, please answer
Alma
————– Original message ————–
This is pretty much how I feel…
“When you create a problem, you create pain. All it takes is a simple
choice, a simple decision: no matter what happens, I will create no more
pain for myself. I will create no more problems. Although it is a simple
choice, it is also very radical. You won’ t make that choice unless you
are truly fed up with suffering, unless you have truly had enough. And
you
won’t be able to go through with it unless you access the power of the
Now. If you create no more pain for yourself, then you create no more
pain
for others. You also no longer contaminate the beautiful Earth, your
inner
space, and the collective human psyche with the negativity of
problem-making.”
brenda
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From: gardenrestaurant@comcast.net
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Quote from the “Power of Now” sums up my recent situation
Date: November 8, 2005 at 5:35:44 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
hi Brenda,
thank’s for your email I really appriciate your point of view, but what about if you are in a relations with sombody who you trusted for many years and suddenly he want to leave with another woman , I know this sound really commun but it can be really painful ,how separate the problem with the pain, please answer
Alma
————– Original message ————–
> This is pretty much how I feel…
>
> “When you create a problem, you create pain. All it takes is a simple
> choice, a simple decision: no matter what happens, I will create no more
> pain for myself. I will create no more problems. Although it is a simple
> choice, it is also very radical. You won’ t make that choice unless you
> are truly fed up with suffering, unless you have truly had enough. And you
> won’t be able to go through with it unless you access the power of the
> Now. If you create no more pain for yourself, then you create no more pain
> for others. You also no longer contaminate the beautiful Earth, your inner
> space, and the collective human psyche with the negativity of
> problem-making.”
>
> brenda
>
>
> ———————————————————–
> WebMail provided by Photon.Net – http://www.photon.net/
> Nationwide internet access, thousands of dial-up numbers!
> Web hosting, multimedia broadcasting, e-commerce, and more.
>
>
>
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>
From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Full BBC Documentary Online: One Life: Detox or Die – The life of a heroin/methadone addict in Glascow, the cost of his dependence and the hope offered by ibogaine/eboga.
Date: November 8, 2005 at 1:13:09 PM EST
To: Eboga List <eboga@elistas.com>, Ibogaine List <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi List,
Just to let you know I have a link on my providers page and links page for the full BBC documentary of:
“Detox or Die – David Graham Scott has been addicted to drugs for nearly 20 years. Watch this BBC documentary about his fight to beat his addiction and treatment provided by Edward Conn.”
www.my-eboga.com/providers.html
This documentary can also be accessed directly via:
www.becomewhole.co.uk
Lee
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Still Altering Conciousness
Date: November 8, 2005 at 12:31:07 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Brenda and Sandy,
Whatever else you do, think of ibogaine as a great adventure.
Howard
In a message dated 11/8/05 11:42:46 AM, shakti@photon.net writes:
> My last comment is for Brenda.  I remember a time when I was very bored in
> my life and I literally remember laying on my bed wishing for some drama
> to unfold.  It did about a week later in the form of a ruptured appendix.
> I laugh now – and am a little more specific about what sorts of adventures
> I wish for – of course that doesn’t seem to stop the scary things from
> coming along from time to time anyway.
> Thanks to the ibo list folks for lots to chew on!  I wish all who seek
> eboga to find it…
> Sandy
Hi Sandy,
I’ve read the Nature of Personal Reality 3 times 🙂  Believe me, I know
all about manifestation and being specific – I’ve has lots of success than
other times I have felt like the Sorcerer’s apprentice – or to lighten
things upp a bit, the protaganist in “Bedazzled.”  That movie always makes
me feel a lot better about when I’m not being specific enough 🙂
Actually, specifically, I have planned to go to Costa Rica in April with a
group that is surfing, hiking and doing yoga.  I’m specifically attracting
and creating, positive, life-affirming adventures!
brenda 🙂
From: shakti@photon.net
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Still Altering Conciousness
Date: November 8, 2005 at 11:42:24 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
My last comment is for Brenda.  I remember a time when I was very bored in
my life and I literally remember laying on my bed wishing for some drama
to unfold.  It did about a week later in the form of a ruptured appendix.
I laugh now – and am a little more specific about what sorts of adventures
I wish for – of course that doesn’t seem to stop the scary things from
coming along from time to time anyway.
Thanks to the ibo list folks for lots to chew on!  I wish all who seek
eboga to find it…
Sandy
Hi Sandy,
I’ve read the Nature of Personal Reality 3 times 🙂  Believe me, I know
all about manifestation and being specific – I’ve has lots of success than
other times I have felt like the Sorcerer’s apprentice – or to lighten
things upp a bit, the protaganist in “Bedazzled.”  That movie always makes
me feel a lot better about when I’m not being specific enough 🙂
Actually, specifically, I have planned to go to Costa Rica in April with a
group that is surfing, hiking and doing yoga.  I’m specifically attracting
and creating, positive, life-affirming adventures!
brenda 🙂
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Web hosting, multimedia broadcasting, e-commerce, and more.
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From: Day Brown <daybrown@artelco.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Quote from the “Power of Now” sums up my recent situation
Date: November 8, 2005 at 11:59:21 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
shakti@photon.net wrote:
This is pretty much how I feel…
“When you create a problem, you create pain. All it takes is a simple
choice, a simple decision: no matter what happens, I will create no more
pain for myself. I will create no more problems. Although it is a simple
choice, it is also very radical. You won’ t make that choice unless you
are truly fed up with suffering, unless you have truly had enough. And you
won’t be able to go through with it unless you access the power of the
Now. If you create no more pain for yourself, then you create no more pain
for others. You also no longer contaminate the beautiful Earth, your inner
space, and the collective human psyche with the negativity of
problem-making.”
The problem is, however, a lack of sanity and/or sentience. I saw a man
lay in a hospital bed, who had laid there his entire life, without ever
making a volitional act. The autonomic system worked, but that was it,
nobody was home, and nobody ever came by to turn the power off.
I know others who sometimes listen to what you have to say, sometimes
listen to the voices in their head, and sometimes get confused as to
who it is they are listening to. Their confusion creates lotsa problems.
They dont have a simple choice, they dont understand the problems.
I read of a Finish study of their most violent prisoners. FMRI brain
scans show a constricted neural pathway between the corpus collosum and
the prefrontal lobes. They are not well connected with themselves. They
have murdered on that account; when emotionally aroused, the prefrontal
lobes shut down, and they have no choice but to respond to what their
reptilian brains tell them to do. They cannot access the power of Now.
And while it is all well and good for us who are sentient to make better
choices, we also havta make choices for others who are not sentient. And
we may sometimes have to use force and euthanasia to reduce problems and contamination so that children will have a better shot at growing up to
be rational sentient beings able to solve more problems.
And unfortunately, it turns out that DNA has a lot to do with this. Many
are in the gene pool not because their ancestry was sentient, but cause
it had resistance to cholera, dysentery, plagues, etc. The tribes they
lived in had shamen, witches, and elders who told them what to do, and
when to do it. They had lifetime active case management. Freedom is not
something they are capable of dealing with. It didnt matter if parents
were incompetent; there were rational adults nearby at all times who
could hear a child in distress, so abuse never got out of hand. Loving
relationships were not always possible, nor were they expected.
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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Pithy_concise and full of meaning
Date: November 8, 2005 at 8:32:38 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I answered my own question I think. Bet it was typo and you meant pithy. It is defined as concise and full of meaning (for those like me who did not know what it meant!)
So, sorry for interruption….please carry on!
Callie
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] For Carol Ann and Lee Re: Altering Conciousness
Date: November 8, 2005 at 8:11:04 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In a message dated 11/7/2005 11:02:02 PM Central Standard Time, jaywillten@gmail.com writes:
How about you Mason? You don’t post much at all. Any
> > plithy nonsense to share.
what does plithy mean?
Callie
From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] For Carol Ann and Lee Re: Altering Conciousness
Date: November 8, 2005 at 6:56:08 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Mason,
I never entered ibogaine treatment for smoking. It was to deal with the kind of pain issues someone who has come off dope probably has to deal with. (So I see a lot of common ground between me and the list). The smoking issue is and has been a sideline. One I have allowed myself from time to time to fall into as an escape valve. If it were heroin I would be more reluctant to do so. Having said that I don’t smoke much and expect to be rid of it in due course.
The ibogaine I do is to work through and resolve stuff inside me and as I have in one way or another spent a life doing that via various routes, the whole process with ibogaine/eboga has now also become one of discovery for me into its mechanisms of healing – what I call the Eboga Process. So I document that and that has become my work interest also. In this I try to see how the spiritual aspect of eboga complements the purely psychological of Arthur Janov  for example in Primal Therapy.
There are those who feel my perspective on life and healing to be a waste of time or at best something to tolerate. So in no way do I try and convince anyone of the merit of what I do. Its a choice I have made and others can make it for themself also if they wish.
Its not easy work personally with eboga/ibogaine but it is rewarding when you have success and see the changes in your day to day life. Thats what keeps me going and also the hope that I can document sufficiently well my understanding that others may look at ibogaine in the same light as I do in order to make profound changes in their life by this way if they should consider it.
So I guess the epic journey is not with eboga and I per see, but with the learning of its healing process. Eboga and I will go on journeying till the day I die and I imagine that that journey will have many stages.
Warm regards,
Lee
Mason Shipley <maseshipley@gmail.com> wrote:
Reading through all of these messages I have short simple ones to two
of the most prolific authors about their backgrounds.
Carol Ann a short one if you wouldn’t mind sharing. You give lots of
advice, a little from the position of “spiritual superiority” as
booker said, in my humble opinion, but what is your background please?
It’s easy enough to throw out pithy nonsense like “I can get that from
walking in a circle and meditating” so did you personally stop using
heroin or crack by walking in a circle and meditating? Stop boozing
from that? Have any addiction experience whatsoever?
Curious whether you’re sharing anecdotes that have helped you out or
just like listening to yourself talk.
Lee Albert, I understand you’re taking part in a epic journey and
having a good time exploring with ibogaine. My one question for you
is, the only addiction you talk about here is smoking, which you
seemingly have not been able to stop despite all your experiences. You
start, you stop, you want to quit smoking and haven’t stayed stopped
yet, is that it? You do all the ibogaine you do to trip on it, not for
addiction interruption right?
Thanks for the clarifications,
-Mase
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Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
From: “booker w” <swbooker@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Still Altering Conciousness
Date: November 8, 2005 at 3:20:08 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
      Hi Sandy,
Nice to hear from you. I hear what you’re saying. It’s just that not all drugs expand awareness. There are drugs, such a heroin, that basically repress awareness.
Thus, what bugs me from time to time, is people from the pro-drug camp (Pete Cohen et al) who use the argument that people have always sought altered states of consciousness, to create essentially an “all drugs are fine” position. Personally, I’m pro legalization, esp for opiates, but I don’t take the more libertarian stance that all drugs are OK. This is why I prefer to believe that it is more that humans periodically seek greater self-awareness rather than altered states. It’s just that through some altered states you can get more self-awareness.
Nick
Hey Nick –
I still gotta say you seem to be implying that certain drugs are “superiour” to others and at a fundamental level I just don’t agree.  Yeah, it seems like someone strung out on methamphetemine is in a totally different space than someone taking ibogaine for “self awareness.”  But to me, it isn’t the drug.  It’s just what the drug is being used for. I could agree that certain drugs repress certain things – but I’m not sure I could agree that they consistently repress awareness totally,  rather just repress certain feelings while enhancing others (i.e. you know the old “sex on coke” thing…) – but still – perhaps the real adventure is the soul (say, my soul) wanting to experience what addiction is like.  Now THAT”S an adventure (yeah, right.)  I haveta admit that when I was a teen the idea of smokey jazz clubs and all that went with it held great romance to me.  But now the adventure I guess is in solving the addiction too.   Anyway, getting very esoteric.  I’m living the addiction adventure and have yet to solve the puzzle…
Carol Ann – thanks for your thoughtful reply.  It seems like an awful lot of the “gurus” claim that thoughts are things.  I would probably choose “Seth” of the Jane Roberts fame as my greatest “teacher”, and that was his/her mantra too.  It seems easier in all ways for me to view the world as a big playground for our thoughts.  Sometimes simple is fun and peaceful and sometimes the very complex is great as well.   I used to play pool for a living and I assumed that as I got better and better that there would be less to learn, but instead, the better I got the more infinite the game became to me.  I am also a great fan of the chaos theory where it all seems in perfect rhythm for a bit and then next it sounds like utter cacophony.  Best way for me to cope with all the suffering too.
My last comment is for Brenda.  I remember a time when I was very bored in my life and I literally remember laying on my bed wishing for some drama to unfold.  It did about a week later in the form of a ruptured appendix.  I laugh now – and am a little more specific about what sorts of adventures I wish for – of course that doesn’t seem to stop the scary things from coming along from time to time anyway.
Thanks to the ibo list folks for lots to chew on!  I wish all who seek eboga to find it…
Sandy
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From: Day Brown <daybrown@artelco.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] smoking….
Date: November 7, 2005 at 12:47:13 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hominids began living next to fires millions of years ago, breathing
smoke. They began living in caves with smoky fires 100 millennia ago or
more, where there is even more smoke, and then lived in huts and houses
for the last 10k years, few of which had chimneys, and breathed smoke
much of every day, and most of the time all winter long.
I dont think those who were not adapted to breathing smoke could have
stayed in the gene pool. The diff is in the research behind Starband
tobacco, in which they show, that if you dry tobacco in a barn with the
fumes from propane burners to make it dry faster, it has the nitrates
in it that are carcinogenic.
but if you dont do it that way, if you dry it in the open air barns as
was originally done, it dont have the nitrates, and it aint.
Course, lotsa folks have lungs exposed to outdoor/indoor air pollution;
chemicals in the carpets, latex walls, disinfectants, pesticides, vinyl
furniture, “air fresheners”, and so on that lungs were never adapted to
breathe, never mind all the crap that is outside.
Lotsa folks are on the couch, too inactive, and their lungs never get
the kind of workouts they were adapted to either. I live in the country
and work outside several days a week, so I dont worry about smoking a
little in the evening. My lungs expect smoke at night after a day being
outside. If you worry about your lungs enough not to smoke, you prolly
awta move away from the indoor/outdoor air pollution as well.
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From: Carol Ann <saffireskyes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] For Carol Ann and Lee/ Jay/ Mase Re:  Altering Conciousness
Date: November 7, 2005 at 10:25:10 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
— Jay Willis <jaywillten@gmail.com> wrote:
your taking someone else’s inventory, doesn’t help
either.
Jay, if you don’t mind my asking,  how do you, as an
individual, go about getting help.
As to your comment about me being up set…To a
certain degree, yes.  Due to the parent/child
relationship, we will always maintain a bond.
has your
son done ibogaine?
No. But, I believe he would.
Jay
On 11/7/05, Mason Shipley <maseshipley@gmail.com>
wrote:
Thanks for all that, I meant your background as to
why you’re here,
which you answered. Thank you.
You’re welcome.
Do all these things that you do help your son?
He’s thinking…indirectly, is it helping. He’s been
away (incarcerated) for 4.5 years.   I understand that
imposing my way of life on him would violate certain
boundaries.
Does he want to get clean?
Yes and No.  You understand that…
I’m what you’d call a functioning junkie. I’ve
been in recovery for 27
years, haven’t ever made a clean time longer then
4 months. I hope one
of these decades I’ll get it right, I’d like live
for a while and have
freedom.
I don’t have any great advice, I don’t post much,
I came here to learn
about ibogaine.
Maybe you should post more often Mase. My son
functions as well, he goes to school in the evenings,
(welding certification) works during the day, is
expecting his first child in March, and is fortunate
to be married to a wonderful, patient gal who is
beginning to understand that his behavior, when using,
is nothing personal against her as an individual.  A
really likable, good hearted guy with the potential to
be extremely successful.  It would appear that he has
many reasons to want to recover, live clean and as you
say, free.  Yet, somewhere inbetween, he finds the
time to slowly kill himself, one pipe load at a time.
It’s a weird place, grows on you,
after reading the
list for a few days I always open up my mail and
have a lot of
Carolann in it so I asked. You give a lot of
advice, I wondered
whether it’s worked out for you, only questions.
Many posts must be going either the way of the trash
bin, or else, thru your filters. I am not, if you’ve
been here for the last month or so, among the more
prolific posters.
Warm regards, Mase.
-Mase
On 11/7/05, Carol Ann <saffireskyes@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Hi Mason,
I am a certified Yoga Instructor and Tantric
praccioner.  Nationally Cert. Massage
Therapist
specializing in Cranio-Sacral.  Cert.
Hypnotherapist
and Reiki instructor. I didnt realize what I
write
came across as spiritual superiority…in fact,
the
truth of the matter is that they are merely
insignificant titles which follow individual
interests
and certain levels of achievment. From what you
are
asking….the implicataion is that addiction is
the
only qualifier to the sharing experience.
If so, I have a son who is addicted to Crack
Cocaine.
It is what brought me here and to my
investigation of
entheogens. He practices his own version of
Spirituality, he self medicates 2-3 times a
week.
Going on About 7 years now.   Does that count?
I only wish he would walk in concentric circles,
learn
to breath and to begin to think positive
thoughts for
prolonged periods. To put as much effort into
altering
or reprograming his consciousness as he does in
finding ways to maintain his drug sources.
How about you Mason? You don’t post much at all.
Any
plithy nonsense to share.
Warm regards,
Carol Ann
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Best regards,
Carol
_______________________________
Never Accept Only Two Choices in Life.
The problems of Today cannot be solved by the same thinking that created them.
-Al Einstein.
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail – PC Magazine Editors’ Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
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From: Jay Willis <jaywillten@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] For Carol Ann and Lee Re: Altering Conciousness
Date: November 7, 2005 at 9:03:51 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
your taking someone else’s inventory, doesn’t help either. sounds like
a upset mom because her son is fucked up. has your son done ibogaine?
if he did what was it like? I haven’t.
Jay
On 11/7/05, Mason Shipley <maseshipley@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks for all that, I meant your background as to why you’re here,
which you answered. Thank you.
Do all these things that you do help your son? Does he want to get clean?
I’m what you’d call a functioning junkie. I’ve been in recovery for 27
years, haven’t ever made a clean time longer then 4 months. I hope one
of these decades I’ll get it right, I’d like live for a while and have
freedom.
I don’t have any great advice, I don’t post much, I came here to learn
about ibogaine. It’s a weird place, grows on you, after reading the
list for a few days I always open up my mail and have a lot of
Carolann in it so I asked. You give a lot of advice, I wondered
whether it’s worked out for you, only questions.
-Mase
On 11/7/05, Carol Ann <saffireskyes@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi Mason,
I am a certified Yoga Instructor and Tantric
practicioner.  Nationally Cert. Massage Therapist
specializing in Cranio-Sacral.  Cert. Hypnotherapist
and Reiki instructor. I didnt realize what I write
came across as spiritual superiority…in fact, the
truth of the matter is that they are merely
insignificant titles which follow individual interests
and certain levels of achievment. From what you are
asking….the implicataion is that addiction is the
only qualifier to the sharing experience.
If so, I have a son who is addicted to Crack Cocaine.
It is what brought me here and to my investigation of
entheogens. He practices his own version of
Spirituality, he self medicates 2-3 times a week.
Going on About 7 years now.   Does that count?
I only wish he would walk in concentric circles, learn
to breath and to begin to think positive thoughts for
prolonged periods. To put as much effort into altering
or reprograming his consciousness as he does in
finding ways to maintain his drug sources.
How about you Mason? You don’t post much at all. Any
plithy nonsense to share.
Warm regards,
Carol Ann
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From: Mason Shipley <maseshipley@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] For Carol Ann and Lee Re: Altering Conciousness
Date: November 7, 2005 at 6:08:08 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Thanks for all that, I meant your background as to why you’re here,
which you answered. Thank you.
Do all these things that you do help your son? Does he want to get clean?
I’m what you’d call a functioning junkie. I’ve been in recovery for 27
years, haven’t ever made a clean time longer then 4 months. I hope one
of these decades I’ll get it right, I’d like live for a while and have
freedom.
I don’t have any great advice, I don’t post much, I came here to learn
about ibogaine. It’s a weird place, grows on you, after reading the
list for a few days I always open up my mail and have a lot of
Carolann in it so I asked. You give a lot of advice, I wondered
whether it’s worked out for you, only questions.
-Mase
On 11/7/05, Carol Ann <saffireskyes@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi Mason,
I am a certified Yoga Instructor and Tantric
practicioner.  Nationally Cert. Massage Therapist
specializing in Cranio-Sacral.  Cert. Hypnotherapist
and Reiki instructor. I didnt realize what I write
came across as spiritual superiority…in fact, the
truth of the matter is that they are merely
insignificant titles which follow individual interests
and certain levels of achievment. From what you are
asking….the implicataion is that addiction is the
only qualifier to the sharing experience.
If so, I have a son who is addicted to Crack Cocaine.
It is what brought me here and to my investigation of
entheogens. He practices his own version of
Spirituality, he self medicates 2-3 times a week.
Going on About 7 years now.   Does that count?
I only wish he would walk in concentric circles, learn
to breath and to begin to think positive thoughts for
prolonged periods. To put as much effort into altering
or reprograming his consciousness as he does in
finding ways to maintain his drug sources.
How about you Mason? You don’t post much at all. Any
plithy nonsense to share.
Warm regards,
Carol Ann
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From: Carol Ann <saffireskyes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] For Carol Ann and Lee Re: Altering Conciousness
Date: November 7, 2005 at 5:34:37 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Mason,
I am a certified Yoga Instructor and Tantric
practicioner.  Nationally Cert. Massage Therapist
specializing in Cranio-Sacral.  Cert. Hypnotherapist
and Reiki instructor. I didnt realize what I write
came across as spiritual superiority…in fact, the
truth of the matter is that they are merely
insignificant titles which follow individual interests
and certain levels of achievment. From what you are
asking….the implicataion is that addiction is the
only qualifier to the sharing experience.
If so, I have a son who is addicted to Crack Cocaine.
It is what brought me here and to my investigation of
entheogens. He practices his own version of
Spirituality, he self medicates 2-3 times a week.
Going on About 7 years now.   Does that count?
I only wish he would walk in concentric circles, learn
to breath and to begin to think positive thoughts for
prolonged periods. To put as much effort into altering
or reprograming his consciousness as he does in
finding ways to maintain his drug sources.
How about you Mason? You don’t post much at all. Any
plithy nonsense to share.
Warm regards,
Carol Ann
— Mason Shipley <maseshipley@gmail.com> wrote:
Reading through all of these messages I have short
simple ones to two
of the most prolific authors about their
backgrounds.
Carol Ann a short one if you wouldn’t mind sharing.
You give lots of
advice, a little from the position of “spiritual
superiority” as
booker said, in my humble opinion, but what is your
background please?
It’s easy enough to throw out pithy nonsense like “I
can get that from
walking in a circle and meditating” so did you
personally stop using
heroin or crack by walking in a circle and
meditating? Stop boozing
from that? Have any addiction experience whatsoever?
Curious whether you’re sharing anecdotes that have
helped you out or
just like listening to yourself talk.
Lee Albert, I understand you’re taking part in a
epic journey and
having a good time exploring with ibogaine. My one
question for you
is, the only addiction you talk about here is
smoking, which you
seemingly have not been able to stop despite all
your experiences. You
start, you stop, you want to quit smoking and
haven’t stayed stopped
yet, is that it? You do all the ibogaine you do to
trip on it, not for
addiction interruption right?
Thanks for the clarifications,
-Mase
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
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Best regards,
Carol
_______________________________
Never Accept Only Two Choices in Life.
The problems of Today cannot be solved by the same thinking that created them.
-Al Einstein.
__________________________________
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com
 /]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: Mason Shipley <maseshipley@gmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] For Carol Ann and Lee Re: Altering Conciousness
Date: November 7, 2005 at 2:50:48 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reading through all of these messages I have short simple ones to two
of the most prolific authors about their backgrounds.
Carol Ann a short one if you wouldn’t mind sharing. You give lots of
advice, a little from the position of “spiritual superiority” as
booker said, in my humble opinion, but what is your background please?
It’s easy enough to throw out pithy nonsense like “I can get that from
walking in a circle and meditating” so did you personally stop using
heroin or crack by walking in a circle and meditating? Stop boozing
from that? Have any addiction experience whatsoever?
Curious whether you’re sharing anecdotes that have helped you out or
just like listening to yourself talk.
Lee Albert, I understand you’re taking part in a epic journey and
having a good time exploring with ibogaine. My one question for you
is, the only addiction you talk about here is smoking, which you
seemingly have not been able to stop despite all your experiences. You
start, you stop, you want to quit smoking and haven’t stayed stopped
yet, is that it? You do all the ibogaine you do to trip on it, not for
addiction interruption right?
Thanks for the clarifications,
-Mase
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From: shakti@photon.net
Subject: [Ibogaine] Adventure!
Date: November 7, 2005 at 1:42:45 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi,
I don’t remember the exact post  that mentions this topic (I downloaded it
to my laptop at home this morning) but I know what thing I I crave is
adventure.  UI don’t know about the rest of the human race but I
recognized this as a strong desire for myself and I emailed a few friends
about it the other day.  So, I have commited to planning lots of
adventures for myself.
My boyfriend will stay home and take care of the cats.
brenda 🙂
———————————————————–
WebMail provided by Photon.Net – http://www.photon.net/
Nationwide internet access, thousands of dial-up numbers!
Web hosting, multimedia broadcasting, e-commerce, and more.
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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Altering Conciousness
Date: November 7, 2005 at 1:16:11 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
—–Original Message—–
From: booker w [mailto:swbooker@hotmail.com]
Sent: 07 November 2005 09:26
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Altering Conciousness
Hi Lee.  I think Process Work is a rather general psychology term, but I’m actually referring to Process-Oriented Psychology, more or less started by a guy named Arnold Mindell.  He started out as a physicist and then became a Jungian analyst.  Then he started to put the two together in a very unique (to my mind) way.  Here’s a link in case you’re interested – http://www.aamindell.net/processwork_frame.htm
Hi Nick.  I think your idea about wanting to expand awareness makes a lot of sense.  But I would still agree that we might want to alter our conciousness just flat for diversity and a sense of adventure.  I guess you could say that having a drive for adventure is pretty innate as well.  But maybe Weil and you mean the same thing.  Altering conciousness is probably just the same as expanding awareness.
Hi Sandy,
Nice to hear from you. I hear what you’re saying. It’s just that not all drugs expand awareness. There are drugs, such a heroin, that basically repress awareness.
Thus, what bugs me from time to time, is people from the pro-drug camp (Pete Cohen et al) who use the argument that people have always sought altered states of consciousness, to create essentially an “all drugs are fine” position. Personally, I’m pro legalization, esp for opiates, but I don’t take the more libertarian stance that all drugs are OK. This is why I prefer to believe that it is more that humans periodically seek greater self-awareness rather than altered states. It’s just that through some altered states you can get more self-awareness.
Nick
Hi Carol Ann.  I am familiar with Gary Zukov but for some reason your remarks about the search for spirituality and soul growth smack of “superiority” to me.  Sorry if this offends and maybe I am just an oversensitive dope addict.  I would be the first to admit that if I could spin in place for five minutes a day or do some concentric walking and obtain the same happiness as I do from swallowing opium, I’d be happy to switch.  Being patient and disciplined has never been my strong suit.
Best,  Sandy
From:  Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] Altering Conciousness
Date:  Sun, 6 Nov 2005 13:30:07 +0000 (GMT)
What do you mean by Process work?
Lee
shakti@photon.net wrote:
RE: Process Work
Process Work and the people involved with is very, very cool. About a
month I got to attend an intimate dialogue between Aminah Raheem, Ph.D and
a teacher I am currently studying with. I was totally fascinated with
what she spoke of Process Work and thoroughly enjoyed her book “Soul
Lightning.” I will look more into their perspective on addiction, what
you have written about finding something to take it’s place getting into
that space resonates with me. These current teachers tried to steer me to
12-step groups which I have tremendous resistance to that.
I’m going have fun doing research on Process Work and addiction.
brenda
>
> Hi. I just read the “Natural Mind” by Andrew Weil, and I liked his
> propositions very much. He claims that having a drive to alter
> conciousness is as innate in humans as
hunger or sex. An illustration
> would be kids spinning around (which I certainly did.)
> Unfortunately we’ve lost our rituals to alter conciousness in safe and
> respectful ways, in our white western society. But of course we still
> pursue the drive. He also claims, which I’ve heard over and over in some
> progressive psychologies such as Process Work, that an addict needs the
> “state” that they get to thru the drug and the only real answer is to find
> alternative and perhaps less harmful ways to achieve the state. For me,
> opiates seem to allow me to let go of judging both myself and the world so
> harshly. Anyway, I found the book very interesting and hopefully one day
> drugs will not be so demonized as we do in our profoundly ignorant way
> these days.
> Best, Sandy
>
> From: Carol Ann
> Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]
Nick
> Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 12:01:53 -0800 (PST)
>>If I’ve noted anything it is that there is a common
>>”thread” among these different discussions regarding
>>the use and benefits of Ibo, Salvia, mushrooms, etc.
>>
>>Comments are often directed, observations are noted
>>about the various degrees of a drugs ability to get
>>one “High”. Levels are often associated with the
>>amount and quality of the “spiritual” connection. My
>>initial thought is that this is still in keeping with
>>the established “pattern” of addiction.
>>
>>It could be said that one obsessive, compulsive
>>behavior or dependence tendency is being replaced with
>>another. Those who were spiritually negligent, or in
>>deficit before using Ibo,etc. subsequently seek to
>>gain insight into a fundamental and mysterious element
>>of basic human
nature…enlightenment, sound judgment
>>or lack thereof, a more diversified balanced, non
>>abusive reality. The substitution is a drug.
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: shakti@photon.net
Subject: [Ibogaine] Quote from the “Power of Now” sums up my recent situation
Date: November 7, 2005 at 11:57:05 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
This is pretty much how I feel…
“When you create a problem, you create pain. All it takes is a simple
choice, a simple decision: no matter what happens, I will create no more
pain for myself. I will create no more problems. Although it is a simple
choice, it is also very radical. You won’ t make that choice unless you
are truly fed up with suffering, unless you have truly had enough. And you
won’t be able to go through with it unless you access the power of the
Now. If you create no more pain for yourself, then you create no more pain
for others. You also no longer contaminate the beautiful Earth, your inner
space, and the collective human psyche with the negativity of
problem-making.”
brenda
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Nationwide internet access, thousands of dial-up numbers!
Web hosting, multimedia broadcasting, e-commerce, and more.
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From: Carol Ann <saffireskyes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Altering Conciousness
Date: November 7, 2005 at 9:46:23 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Sandy,
In response I would say that after observing different practitioners, Guru’s, studying, participating/experiencing various  spiritual concepts such as Kabala, Tantra, Wicca, Jung/Freud, Buddhism,  etc. I come to the conclusion  that Spirituality is really quite simple.  The belief  systems I’ mention are I believe,  designed to keep the mind in the gerbil mill preoccupied.
If given the opportunity to make reference to basic spiritual concepts,  Zukov is my preference.  Ritual is a but tool to help bridge the connection.   Simplicity is often superior.  In a society inundated with sophisticated technology and growing philosophical and social complications, simplicity is often the less traveled road.
Discipline has never been a strong point for me either, Sandy, especially if it is an external pressurized directive . I know that its because basically, by nature, I am defiant of pretender  authoritative emissaries.    Patience, I am still in the process of acclimating too and for me it is the  most challenging because it requires tremendous faith in what I cannot see or fully understand.  I began years ago with a simple, rather obscure book called “Thoughts Are Things” (perhaps 60 pages in total) and went full circle.  Nah,  thought I,  it couldn’t be THAT simple.  The message was there in those three words,  but I did not see it initially.
Carol Ann
booker w <swbooker@hotmail.com> wrote:
Hi Carol Ann.  I am familiar with Gary Zukov but for some reason your remarks about the search for spirituality and soul growth smack of “superiority” to me.  Sorry if this offends and maybe I am just an oversensitive dope addict.  I would be the first to admit that if I could spin in place for five minutes a day or do some concentric walking and obtain the same happiness as I do from swallowing opium, I’d be happy to switch.  Being patient and disciplined has never been my strong suit.
Best,  Sandy
From:  Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] Altering Conciousness
Date:  Sun, 6 Nov 2005 13:30:07 +0000 (GMT)
What do you mean by Process work?
Lee
shakti@photon.net wrote:
RE: Process Work
Process Work and the people involved with is very, very cool. About a
month I got to attend an intimate dialogue between Aminah Raheem, Ph.D and
a teacher I am currently studying with. I was totally fascinated with
what she spoke of Process Work and thoroughly enjoyed her book “Soul
Lightning.” I will look more into their perspective on addiction, what
you have written about finding something to take it’s place getting into
that space resonates with me. These current teachers tried to steer me to
12-step groups which I have tremendous resistance to that.
I’m going have fun doing research on Process Work and addiction.
brenda
>
> Hi. I just read the “Natural Mind” by Andrew Weil, and I liked his
> propositions very much. He claims that having a drive to alter
> conciousness is as innate in humans as
hunger or sex. An illustration
> would be kids spinning around (which I certainly did.)
> Unfortunately we’ve lost our rituals to alter conciousness in safe and
> respectful ways, in our white western society. But of course we still
> pursue the drive. He also claims, which I’ve heard over and over in some
> progressive psychologies such as Process Work, that an addict needs the
> “state” that they get to thru the drug and the only real answer is to find
> alternative and perhaps less harmful ways to achieve the state. For me,
> opiates seem to allow me to let go of judging both myself and the world so
> harshly. Anyway, I found the book very interesting and hopefully one day
> drugs will not be so demonized as we do in our profoundly ignorant way
> these days.
> Best, Sandy
>
> From: Carol Ann
> Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]
Nick
> Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 12:01:53 -0800 (PST)
>>If I’ve noted anything it is that there is a common
>>”thread” among these different discussions regarding
>>the use and benefits of Ibo, Salvia, mushrooms, etc.
>>
>>Comments are often directed, observations are noted
>>about the various degrees of a drugs ability to get
>>one “High”. Levels are often associated with the
>>amount and quality of the “spiritual” connection. My
>>initial thought is that this is still in keeping with
>>the established “pattern” of addiction.
>>
>>It could be said that one obsessive, compulsive
>>behavior or dependence tendency is being replaced with
>>another. Those who were spiritually negligent, or in
>>deficit before using Ibo,etc. subsequently seek to
>>gain insight into a fundamental and mysterious element
>>of basic human
nature…enlightenment, sound judgment
>>or lack thereof, a more diversified balanced, non
>>abusive reality. The substitution is a drug.
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
Best regards,
Carol
_______________________________
Never Accept Only Two Choices in Life.
The problems of Today cannot be solved by the same thinking that created them.
-Al Einstein.
Yahoo! FareChase – Search multiple travel sites in one click.
From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Getting High on ibo & Creating a New dependency
Date: November 7, 2005 at 8:04:57 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Carol Ann,
I took ibogaine to begin with 7 years ago for psychospiritual reasons to deal with ongoing emotional pain.I did not take it for smoking or any other substance abuse. In fact about 20 hours after I first took ibogaine I sat on a sidewalk cafe and smoked a cigarette and drank coffee. I felt some emotional pain at that time and that was my usual way to comfort myself.
Mostly I don’t smoke and my ongoing intention is never to smoke. I don’t think its good for the body in any form. My general pattern these past few years has been many months off (even a year), some weeks or a month on. Usually I get off again once I have dealt with the pain/triggers behind it through mini-session work for example. The smoking somehow tends to bring me deeper into the pain – a viscous circle – or signify it is on the rise.
Lee
Carol Ann <saffireskyes@yahoo.com> wrote:
— Lee Albert wrote:
> On a footnote there is an advantage and a need at
> specific times to using high doses which have
> profound healing effects and if under the guise of
> ones addiction one takes a high dose, its benefits
> are not that it feeds an attempt at a new addiction.
> Its benefits are that it facilitates a profound
> healing (appropriate to that moment) which in time
> will get to the bottom of ones tendency to begin a
> new addiction.
Hi Lee,
Thanks for your insight and perspective. Were you able
to quit smoking. 🙂
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> [%]
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> >
>
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
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> >
> >
>
\]=———————————————————————=[/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> Best regards,
> Carol
>
> _______________________________
> Never Accept Only Two Choices in Life.
> The problems of Today cannot be solved by the same
> thinking that created them.
> -Al Einstein.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! Mail – PC Magazine Editors’ Choice 2005
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>
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>
\]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>
>
>
> Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of
> eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes
> section on the Eboga Healing Process:
> www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
>
>
> My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance
> and spiritual interpretation of the eboga
> experience. Includes a mailing list for those
> already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
=== message truncated ===
Best regards,
Carol
_______________________________
Never Accept Only Two Choices in Life.
The problems of Today cannot be solved by the same thinking that created them.
-Al Einstein.
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail – PC Magazine Editors’ Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
From: “booker w” <swbooker@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Altering Conciousness
Date: November 7, 2005 at 4:25:38 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Lee.  I think Process Work is a rather general psychology term, but I’m actually referring to Process-Oriented Psychology, more or less started by a guy named Arnold Mindell.  He started out as a physicist and then became a Jungian analyst.  Then he started to put the two together in a very unique (to my mind) way.  Here’s a link in case you’re interested – http://www.aamindell.net/processwork_frame.htm
Hi Nick.  I think your idea about wanting to expand awareness makes a lot of sense.  But I would still agree that we might want to alter our conciousness just flat for diversity and a sense of adventure.  I guess you could say that having a drive for adventure is pretty innate as well.  But maybe Weil and you mean the same thing.  Altering conciousness is probably just the same as expanding awareness.
Hi Carol Ann.  I am familiar with Gary Zukov but for some reason your remarks about the search for spirituality and soul growth smack of “superiority” to me.  Sorry if this offends and maybe I am just an oversensitive dope addict.  I would be the first to admit that if I could spin in place for five minutes a day or do some concentric walking and obtain the same happiness as I do from swallowing opium, I’d be happy to switch.  Being patient and disciplined has never been my strong suit.
Best,  Sandy
From:  Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] Altering Conciousness
Date:  Sun, 6 Nov 2005 13:30:07 +0000 (GMT)
What do you mean by Process work?
Lee
shakti@photon.net wrote:
RE: Process Work
Process Work and the people involved with is very, very cool. About a
month I got to attend an intimate dialogue between Aminah Raheem, Ph.D and
a teacher I am currently studying with. I was totally fascinated with
what she spoke of Process Work and thoroughly enjoyed her book “Soul
Lightning.” I will look more into their perspective on addiction, what
you have written about finding something to take it’s place getting into
that space resonates with me. These current teachers tried to steer me to
12-step groups which I have tremendous resistance to that.
I’m going have fun doing research on Process Work and addiction.
brenda
>
> Hi. I just read the “Natural Mind” by Andrew Weil, and I liked his
> propositions very much. He claims that having a drive to alter
> conciousness is as innate in humans as
hunger or sex. An illustration
> would be kids spinning around (which I certainly did.)
> Unfortunately we’ve lost our rituals to alter conciousness in safe and
> respectful ways, in our white western society. But of course we still
> pursue the drive. He also claims, which I’ve heard over and over in some
> progressive psychologies such as Process Work, that an addict needs the
> “state” that they get to thru the drug and the only real answer is to find
> alternative and perhaps less harmful ways to achieve the state. For me,
> opiates seem to allow me to let go of judging both myself and the world so
> harshly. Anyway, I found the book very interesting and hopefully one day
> drugs will not be so demonized as we do in our profoundly ignorant way
> these days.
> Best, Sandy
>
> From: Carol Ann
> Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]
Nick
> Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 12:01:53 -0800 (PST)
>>If I’ve noted anything it is that there is a common
>>”thread” among these different discussions regarding
>>the use and benefits of Ibo, Salvia, mushrooms, etc.
>>
>>Comments are often directed, observations are noted
>>about the various degrees of a drugs ability to get
>>one “High”. Levels are often associated with the
>>amount and quality of the “spiritual” connection. My
>>initial thought is that this is still in keeping with
>>the established “pattern” of addiction.
>>
>>It could be said that one obsessive, compulsive
>>behavior or dependence tendency is being replaced with
>>another. Those who were spiritually negligent, or in
>>deficit before using Ibo,etc. subsequently seek to
>>gain insight into a fundamental and mysterious element
>>of basic human
nature…enlightenment, sound judgment
>>or lack thereof, a more diversified balanced, non
>>abusive reality. The substitution is a drug.
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From: Day Brown <daybrown@artelco.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] obtaining ibogaine
Date: November 6, 2005 at 11:00:29 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
“Shakti” is an ancient Aryan word for Tantric healer. part
of the Kama Sutra is about how a Shakti should handle her
clientele.
If you can get good results without the service of a shakti,
go for it. I’ve seen with my own eyes the transformation of a
dude a group of witches arranged to get laid… from an often
macho jackass to a man concerned about the welfare of others.
History shows there are two ways to control the behavior of men.
Sex or Violence. Pick one. If the CIA setup a brothel in Bagdad,
they could get all the info they wanted on what the Jihadim were
upto.
Likewise, the witches of Transylvania sent women across the Danube
to fuck Roman soldiers. and somehow, whenever the Romans crossed
in yet another attempt to conquer Dacia, they always knew when the
Romans were coming.
Sex is a powerful psychological tool; combined with an entheogen,
it resulted in the Golden Age of Peace in SE Europe that lasted from
8000 to 4000 BCE.
You would think that someone would organize the whores today, give
them Tantric and entheogen training and setup a really effective
military intelligence service as well as therapeutic clinic. But I
live on a Matrix, which for reasons that escape me, prevent that idea
from ever entering the minds of those in a position to actually do
anything useful about it. Certainly, no one seeing this message is in
a position to do anything, altho I can see future achaeologists finding
it on a drive someplace…. but by then, it’ll be a dead issue.
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From: Day Brown <daybrown@artelco.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Erasing memories and its potential for addiction treatment
Date: November 6, 2005 at 10:46:55 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Don Patton wrote:
Bill Gates didn’t win the lottery, nor did Steve Forbes or Donald Trump.
People unwilling to offend their moral values, and realistic enough to
know the lotteries are a con, tend to look for spiritual answers, a way
to “progress”, but not in a material sense- since that game is fixed.
This is priceless, “I’m too honest to get rich, and if I do, that means I am corrupted somehow, since all who do not need are theives and liars”. I cannot support myself because I am moral, yet the immoral need to support me for they have taken what I have earned.
Lets start with Bill Gates. He *DID NOT* code dos. He recognized a beautiful piece of craftsmanship when he saw it, and *bought* it from
the dude who wrote it. The hacker didnt produce DOS to get rich, but to
solve some technical problems he had. And we now see the ultimate
extension of this process in the open source movement.
I got a comp sci minor in 1971, and have been online for over 20 years,
and read and written what a lot of hackers had to say. Some years ago
they saw that the path to economic success was blocked by lawyers. We
saw enough coders get their work ripped off, knowing full well that the
corporate minds, like Gates, had enough money for enough lawyers to keep
the dude in court forever. We also understand that the people who award
the patent rights themselves dont understand software, and would not
understand innovation or elegant code nor reward those who create it.
There have been numerous examples where windoz has been caught out with
code that it *stole* from obscure sources. Microsoft has used its money
to economically destroy competition, as with OS/2 and DR-DOS, and then,
after the owners were bankrupt, bought whatever rights they wanted for
a pittance.
Naturally, its not obvious that the game is fixed, but the smartest men
around, the computer software coders figured it out, and thats why now
the open source movement is taking off. You can examine some of the code
I wrote at http://anzi.biz/program.htm .. I dont intend to try to get a
copywrite on it. I dont intend to sell it. I crafted it to be able to
present text on this screen in a way I wanted that nobody else had done
so far as I could understand. What I may get out of it is consultant
fees for laying out other work for other people.
No should you assume that the best reward is measured in dollars such as
was done by Wm. Gates, who many of us know is a sleazeball. I would not
take his money if I had to have his reputation; my character is worth
more to me than that.
As for the rest, you may have good points, but lets settle this first.
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From: brenda brewer <shakti@photon.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To: Day & Sara & Ron & Matt & Brenda & Kirk
Date: November 6, 2005 at 9:20:15 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Thank you, Don.  Yes, having the list has helped tremendously.  The first days of withdrawals were horrible, I was a mess.  I don’t ever want to go through that again.
I appreciate your words of acknowledgement.   I have made some pretty big behavior shifts – basically realized what really taking responsibility for myself means.  I stopped lying to myself about my alcohol use acknowledged that I was in pain but there had got to be better way to numb the pain.  I guess the Universe Knew I was ready and sent me the help I need.
Anyway, I just returned from the homa.  We chanted around the fire, made and offering of roses, incense and a coconut, then had a little kirtan the some social time.  Really had a sublime time.
Brenda 🙂
On 11/6/05 8:51 AM, “Don Patton” <SuperBee@Tstar.net> wrote:
> Nicely put, but Global Warming?? Girl, put down the agenda and step
> away. Other than that, what you wrote is sheer poetry, kudos.
>
> Sara, we all have a need to be validated, don’t think for a second that
> the absence of back-slaps equates to being ignored, just the opposite.
> You kicked a nerve that got us thinking and we are digesting it, mulling
> it over, and will probably forget to post a response due to the rapidly
> changing subjects. Please don’t interpret that as being ignored, I LOVE
> your posts and look forward to them, keep ’em coming!
>
> Just an observation, but can we all just stop it with the
> self-degradation? We have an AMAZING room, full of VERY varied
> personalities, all coming together to cheer each other on. Just don’t
> let the thread slip into “Woe is Me”. Look at Brenda, she has made
> MIRACULOUS changes BEFORE her treatment, shit, she was all needy and
> demanding, now look at her. She quit drinking BEFORE treatment, she
> pledged to stop putting her boyfriend through hell, and SHE DID IT!!!
> This is a woman with conviction and determination, and I hope, jeez, I
> know, this list had SOMETHING to do with  that. Iboga is not gonna be
> her way out, she did that alone, and when she confronts her demons that
> got her there she WILL KNOW that SHE is in control. I am sooo proud of her!
>
> Look at Matt, he iboed, and is a TOTALLY different person. He writes
> MUCH better, and has a new perspective on life and God.He is still
> struggling, but has put down the needle and is looking the other way for
> a change. Thank the list.
>
> Look at Ron, jeez, he became conscious in front of our eyes! A little
> wake-up call TOTALLY re-arranged his thinking. He speaks clearly and
> brings new ideas. Thank the list.
>
> Kirk keeps us all laughing, responding. Dr. Laura once said ” If you
> keep your head above the crowd, you are gonna get hit with the first
> shoe that’s thrown”. That’s Kirk, the one with the shoe embedded in the
> back of her head. LMAO!!
>
> You guys keep up the good work, we are not here by accident.
>
> Bee
>
From: Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] obtaining ibogaine
Date: November 6, 2005 at 7:01:11 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
You are WAYY overthinking this, Day. We can analyze this to death, no need to.The miracle happens whether or not we can explain it, sex or not. People are reacting to this stuff without the whore, and I believe the need for a whore is also eradicated. Making love on a rebirth would be extasy for the “Hero”, yet I wonder about the motive of the “Whore”. Seems to me the only benefit would be being responsible for the greatest orgasm ever, linking that to the first fix, thereby creating another addiction. Sex is not needed during a reset, nor should it be provided, as it is addictive as well. Might as well give e’m a line of coke. Sex addiction is WHY men look at drugs, to get screwed, da bitch needs to be screwed up. Sorry, but if men were born genetalia-free, this would be a whole different place.
Please remember Brenda goes by Shakti, and apologize for the whore reference. I’m sure it was unintentional, but never the less, she is my friend, and I felt that sting.She has alot going on and is doing incredibly well, just doesn’t need to be equated with a whore right now. Later, put on them 6″ pumps, bitch, and SPANK ya daddy. Oooh, where did THAT come from?
No doubt, this has
been illustrated countless times in fiction regarding the damaged mind
of the hero being cured by the golden hearted whore.
This is too funny, the “Hero” with the “Damaged” mind is cured by sex. Gee, I wonder why I take drugs…….
Bee
Lee Albert wrote:
in what way do the mushrooms help with the anger/repressed emotions?
I dont see any evidence in the “Marsh Chapel Study” at Harvard, or any other
source, or in my own experience with shrooms- where anyone was violent.
Seems like if you are going to be introspective enough, you wont be
violent at the same time.
Similar therapeutic reports suggested LSD was useful as well; I expect
most entheogens that did not also raise the physical activity level as
a stimulant would also be effective.
Regarding repression, there’s been some data recently to show that
memory is not as fixed as thot, that it is modifiable. And we see
that when something is recalled that it is immediately rewritten in
the same way RAM is. But now, if one has an altered state at the time
when a painful memory is recalled, but because of the shrooms, doesnt
actually feel pain, then when it is rewritten, the painful aspect of
the formerly repressed experience is eliminated.
now, were I to design a therapeutic setting in which to do this, for
male clients, I’d provide Shakti. A Shakti using entheogens would be
able to, *during sex*, open up painful experience, but then supply the
pleasure of the current moment to remove the pain. No doubt, this has
been illustrated countless times in fiction regarding the damaged mind
of the hero being cured by the golden hearted whore.
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From: Day Brown <daybrown@artelco.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] obtaining ibogaine
Date: November 6, 2005 at 6:29:38 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Lee Albert wrote:
in what way do the mushrooms help with the anger/repressed emotions?
I dont see any evidence in the “Marsh Chapel Study” at Harvard, or any other
source, or in my own experience with shrooms- where anyone was violent.
Seems like if you are going to be introspective enough, you wont be
violent at the same time.
Similar therapeutic reports suggested LSD was useful as well; I expect
most entheogens that did not also raise the physical activity level as
a stimulant would also be effective.
Regarding repression, there’s been some data recently to show that
memory is not as fixed as thot, that it is modifiable. And we see
that when something is recalled that it is immediately rewritten in
the same way RAM is. But now, if one has an altered state at the time
when a painful memory is recalled, but because of the shrooms, doesnt
actually feel pain, then when it is rewritten, the painful aspect of
the formerly repressed experience is eliminated.
now, were I to design a therapeutic setting in which to do this, for
male clients, I’d provide Shakti. A Shakti using entheogens would be
able to, *during sex*, open up painful experience, but then supply the
pleasure of the current moment to remove the pain. No doubt, this has
been illustrated countless times in fiction regarding the damaged mind
of the hero being cured by the golden hearted whore.
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From: Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT:- Re: Don!!
Date: November 6, 2005 at 5:02:40 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I think I am in love, I will be your Spader to your Shatner, Here, have a cigar….
Kirk wrote:
LMAO
Life?? Vot iss this???
It just seems like I am always here……… for I am Omnipotent ;o)
rolflmao@”that thing” hahahahahahahahaaha!
Very beautiful and descriptive wording there Don
LOL
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net] 
Sent: Monday, 7 November 2005 10:38 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT:- Re: Don!!
Do you HAVE A LIFE, or just sit around monitoring us miscreants all day? I mean, you are always here. That thing between your legs needs some attention, too, don’t forget!

Kirk wrote:
Awwwww just a little?  Come on now, no beating about the bush I am A LOT goofy!! Lol.
All I seem to do these days is smile and laugh and love shitloads, godammmm hippy shit!!!!
I’ll be sucking on beads next and wearing stupid head bands lmao.
But fanks!!
It’s good having you hear too mate!!
Aroha to all (love, n all dat hippy shit)
Kirsty :o)
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net] 
Sent: Monday, 7 November 2005 10:21 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Erasing memories and its potential for addiction treatment
Kirk, you are a little goofy, but you “Get it”. I am honored by your presence and appreciate your being here. 

Kirk wrote:
LOL
You are so full of surprises Mr don man!!!
Keeping us intrigued, what’s next?? 🙂
Do ibogaine man!!!!  Should be verrryyy interesting!!!
Lol
Kirk xx
—–Original Message—–
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net]
Sent: Monday, 7 November 2005 9:54 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Erasing memories and its potential for addiction
treatment
WHAAA???  Man, you guys crack me UP! Mass hypnotic suggestion,
mal-distribution of wealth. BEAUTIFULLY written, though, almost hypnotic
in itself, BRAVO!
Hypnosis has to be allowed to happen, I have no need for it, therefore,
I cannot be hypnotized. ANY hypnotist will agree, they cannot work with
a subject that does not believe hypnotism is possible for them. Hypnosis
is merely a way to step behind repressed feelings and key an outburst of
the child. Sillyness, innocenct, playful, imiginative is brought to the
surface. But convince me to buy a new Hummer, no, sorry.
Bill Gates didn’t win the lottery, nor did Steve Forbes or Donald Trump.
And dismissing their accomplishments to justify your shortcomings may
feed your ego, and the ego feeds on lies. Actually, both of you are very
gifted writers, and if you would just step out of the misery pool, then
maybe you could use some hypnotic suggestions to sell a book or two. I
mean, if it’s so easy, why not take advantage of it? If you can be
manipulated so easily, then why can you not manipulate? Then, we can
blame YOU for winning life’s lottery. And you can make a fortune selling
us dimrods the clue!
People unwilling to offend their moral values, and realistic enough to
know the lotteries are a con, tend to look for spiritual answers, a way
to “progress”, but not in a material sense- since that game is fixed.
This is priceless, “I’m too honest to get rich, and if I do, that means
I am corrupted somehow, since all who do not need are theives and
liars”. I cannot support myself because I am moral, yet the immoral need
to support me for they have taken what I have earned.
And increasingly, people see that hard work will no longer get
you there; you either need luck, as in the lotteries, or you need some
kind of con to be upwardly mobile.
Yeah, hard work WON’T get you there. Recognize your talent and cultivate
it. That isn’t work, that’s getting paid to do what you LOVE to do.
You talk about brainwashing, look in the mirror, you hypocrit, you are
amazing as a writer and I, at least, am very interested in what you have
to say. You have brainwashed yourself into belittleling one friggin’
amazing human being with SOOO much to offer.
I need another beer.
Day Brown wrote:
Carol Ann wrote:
Day, The “magical” practices can be easily attributed to
sophisticated marketing continually under development
via mass hypnotic suggestion, those employed by
hypnotherapists since the discovery and confirmation
of the subconsious mind. This is rather long read and
hopefully, you might find it interesting as few are
exempt unless knowledgable about how it is employed.
You results will vary. Wallace, after coining “magical thinking”,
went on to suggest that as the system declines, people’s coping skills
no longer work so well, so they seek new methods. Two of the symptoms
of decline is increasing corruption and worsening mal-distribution of
wealth. And increasingly, people see that hard work will no longer get
you there; you either need luck, as in the lotteries, or you need some
kind of con to be upwardly mobile.
People unwilling to offend their moral values, and realistic enough to
know the lotteries are a con, tend to look for spiritual answers, a way
to “progress”, but not in a material sense- since that game is fixed.
If they do stay in the rat race, then they try to use astrology or some
other divination tool to improve their odds… magical thinking. I have
no opinion on how effective any of these may be for any individual.
Your Kharma may vary. My own is such that friends try to do me good, but
it always backfires. I still have to be grateful to be inconvenienced.
The magical thinking that works most often is that which comes from some
entheogen and the altered state of consciousness where you get to step
back from the ego to dispassionately look at your interactions. You wont
get ahead, but you get to live more easily not trying.
If your kharma is such that Sutphen’s hypnotism or any other path works
for you and makes you as successful as you hoped, I dont have a problem
with that. And I’m fine if others find that path useful. But I know my
own kharma; for me, Vedic ‘non-action’ works. I can sit, I can wait, and
I can think about what I learned. I dont need to do more.
I agree that brainwashing in pervasive. That dont mean that I have the
Kharmic power to change that for anyone. For instance, my search into
how we got where we are led me to buy JP Mallory, “In Search of the Indo
-Europeans”. Mallory is a rightfully well respected scholar and field
archaeologist, yet the cover of his work shows, as he describes it on the
cover of his book, “bronze figure of an Iranian Steppe nomad taking a
classic “parthian” shot over his shoulder.” close quote.
http://anzi.hypertech.net/artifax.htm
shows a jpg I posted of the book cover. You can plainly see *HER* left
tit. Mallory’s book is full of clues that he himself doesnt see showing
that the original Aryans were matriarchic. How many warrior graves do
they have to find with female DNA and pelvises to admit that Amazons
were a lot more than just mythic? The brainwashing is, as noted, so
pervasive nobody knows it exists.
The few who do know are too few to have the power to do anything about
it. We live cassandrine lives; but better than than a fool.
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From: Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Getting High on ibo & Creating a New dependency
Date: November 6, 2005 at 4:55:58 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I got lost here, did Lee do Iboga to quit smoking? Or is this theoretical?
Carol Ann wrote:
— Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
On a footnote there is an advantage and a need at
specific times to using high doses which have
profound healing effects and if under the guise of
ones addiction one takes a high dose, its benefits
are not that it feeds an attempt at a new addiction.
Its benefits are that it facilitates a profound
healing (appropriate to that moment) which in time
will get to the bottom of ones tendency to begin a
new addiction.
Hi Lee,
Thanks for your insight and perspective. Were you able
to quit smoking. 🙂
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Best regards,
Carol
_______________________________
Never Accept Only Two Choices in Life.
The problems of Today cannot be solved by the same
thinking that created them.
-Al Einstein.
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail – PC Magazine Editors’ Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
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Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of
eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes
section on the Eboga Healing Process:
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance
and spiritual interpretation of the eboga
experience. Includes a mailing list for those
already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
=== message truncated ===
Best regards,
Carol
_______________________________
Never Accept Only Two Choices in Life.
The problems of Today cannot be solved by the same thinking that created them.
-Al Einstein.
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail – PC Magazine Editors’ Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] OT:- Re: Don!!
Date: November 6, 2005 at 4:51:02 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
LMAO
Life?? Vot iss this???
It just seems like I am always here……… for I am Omnipotent ;o)
rolflmao@”that thing” hahahahahahahahaaha!
Very beautiful and descriptive wording there Don
LOL
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net] 
Sent: Monday, 7 November 2005 10:38 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT:- Re: Don!!
Do you HAVE A LIFE, or just sit around monitoring us miscreants all day? I mean, you are always here. That thing between your legs needs some attention, too, don’t forget!

Kirk wrote:
Awwwww just a little?  Come on now, no beating about the bush I am A LOT goofy!! Lol.
All I seem to do these days is smile and laugh and love shitloads, godammmm hippy shit!!!!
I’ll be sucking on beads next and wearing stupid head bands lmao.
But fanks!!
It’s good having you hear too mate!!
Aroha to all (love, n all dat hippy shit)
Kirsty :o)
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net] 
Sent: Monday, 7 November 2005 10:21 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Erasing memories and its potential for addiction treatment
Kirk, you are a little goofy, but you “Get it”. I am honored by your presence and appreciate your being here. 

Kirk wrote:
LOL
You are so full of surprises Mr don man!!!
Keeping us intrigued, what’s next?? 🙂
Do ibogaine man!!!!  Should be verrryyy interesting!!!
Lol
Kirk xx
—–Original Message—–
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net]
Sent: Monday, 7 November 2005 9:54 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Erasing memories and its potential for addiction
treatment
WHAAA???  Man, you guys crack me UP! Mass hypnotic suggestion,
mal-distribution of wealth. BEAUTIFULLY written, though, almost hypnotic
in itself, BRAVO!
Hypnosis has to be allowed to happen, I have no need for it, therefore,
I cannot be hypnotized. ANY hypnotist will agree, they cannot work with
a subject that does not believe hypnotism is possible for them. Hypnosis
is merely a way to step behind repressed feelings and key an outburst of
the child. Sillyness, innocenct, playful, imiginative is brought to the
surface. But convince me to buy a new Hummer, no, sorry.
Bill Gates didn’t win the lottery, nor did Steve Forbes or Donald Trump.
And dismissing their accomplishments to justify your shortcomings may
feed your ego, and the ego feeds on lies. Actually, both of you are very
gifted writers, and if you would just step out of the misery pool, then
maybe you could use some hypnotic suggestions to sell a book or two. I
mean, if it’s so easy, why not take advantage of it? If you can be
manipulated so easily, then why can you not manipulate? Then, we can
blame YOU for winning life’s lottery. And you can make a fortune selling
us dimrods the clue!
People unwilling to offend their moral values, and realistic enough to
know the lotteries are a con, tend to look for spiritual answers, a way
to “progress”, but not in a material sense- since that game is fixed.
This is priceless, “I’m too honest to get rich, and if I do, that means
I am corrupted somehow, since all who do not need are theives and
liars”. I cannot support myself because I am moral, yet the immoral need
to support me for they have taken what I have earned.
And increasingly, people see that hard work will no longer get
you there; you either need luck, as in the lotteries, or you need some
kind of con to be upwardly mobile.
Yeah, hard work WON’T get you there. Recognize your talent and cultivate
it. That isn’t work, that’s getting paid to do what you LOVE to do.
You talk about brainwashing, look in the mirror, you hypocrit, you are
amazing as a writer and I, at least, am very interested in what you have
to say. You have brainwashed yourself into belittleling one friggin’
amazing human being with SOOO much to offer.
I need another beer.
Day Brown wrote:
Carol Ann wrote:
Day, The “magical” practices can be easily attributed to
sophisticated marketing continually under development
via mass hypnotic suggestion, those employed by
hypnotherapists since the discovery and confirmation
of the subconsious mind. This is rather long read and
hopefully, you might find it interesting as few are
exempt unless knowledgable about how it is employed.
You results will vary. Wallace, after coining “magical thinking”,
went on to suggest that as the system declines, people’s coping skills
no longer work so well, so they seek new methods. Two of the symptoms
of decline is increasing corruption and worsening mal-distribution of
wealth. And increasingly, people see that hard work will no longer get
you there; you either need luck, as in the lotteries, or you need some
kind of con to be upwardly mobile.
People unwilling to offend their moral values, and realistic enough to
know the lotteries are a con, tend to look for spiritual answers, a way
to “progress”, but not in a material sense- since that game is fixed.
If they do stay in the rat race, then they try to use astrology or some
other divination tool to improve their odds… magical thinking. I have
no opinion on how effective any of these may be for any individual.
Your Kharma may vary. My own is such that friends try to do me good, but
it always backfires. I still have to be grateful to be inconvenienced.
The magical thinking that works most often is that which comes from some
entheogen and the altered state of consciousness where you get to step
back from the ego to dispassionately look at your interactions. You wont
get ahead, but you get to live more easily not trying.
If your kharma is such that Sutphen’s hypnotism or any other path works
for you and makes you as successful as you hoped, I dont have a problem
with that. And I’m fine if others find that path useful. But I know my
own kharma; for me, Vedic ‘non-action’ works. I can sit, I can wait, and
I can think about what I learned. I dont need to do more.
I agree that brainwashing in pervasive. That dont mean that I have the
Kharmic power to change that for anyone. For instance, my search into
how we got where we are led me to buy JP Mallory, “In Search of the Indo
-Europeans”. Mallory is a rightfully well respected scholar and field
archaeologist, yet the cover of his work shows, as he describes it on the
cover of his book, “bronze figure of an Iranian Steppe nomad taking a
classic “parthian” shot over his shoulder.” close quote.
http://anzi.hypertech.net/artifax.htm
shows a jpg I posted of the book cover. You can plainly see *HER* left
tit. Mallory’s book is full of clues that he himself doesnt see showing
that the original Aryans were matriarchic. How many warrior graves do
they have to find with female DNA and pelvises to admit that Amazons
were a lot more than just mythic? The brainwashing is, as noted, so
pervasive nobody knows it exists.
The few who do know are too few to have the power to do anything about
it. We live cassandrine lives; but better than than a fool.
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: Carol Ann <saffireskyes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Getting High on ibo & Creating a New dependency
Date: November 6, 2005 at 4:35:47 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
— Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
On a footnote there is an advantage and a need at
specific times to using high doses which have
profound healing effects and if under the guise of
ones addiction one takes a high dose, its benefits
are not that it feeds an attempt at a new addiction.
Its benefits are that it facilitates a profound
healing (appropriate to that moment) which in time
will get to the bottom of ones tendency to begin a
new addiction.
Hi Lee,
Thanks for your insight and perspective. Were you able
to quit smoking. 🙂
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Best regards,
Carol
_______________________________
Never Accept Only Two Choices in Life.
The problems of Today cannot be solved by the same
thinking that created them.
-Al Einstein.
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail – PC Magazine Editors’ Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of
eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes
section on the Eboga Healing Process:
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance
and spiritual interpretation of the eboga
experience. Includes a mailing list for those
already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
=== message truncated ===
Best regards,
Carol
_______________________________
Never Accept Only Two Choices in Life.
The problems of Today cannot be solved by the same thinking that created them.
-Al Einstein.
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail – PC Magazine Editors’ Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
 /]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT:- Re: Don!!
Date: November 6, 2005 at 4:38:24 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Do you HAVE A LIFE, or just sit around monitoring us miscreants all day? I mean, you are always here. That thing between your legs needs some attention, too, don’t forget!
Kirk wrote:
Awwwww just a little?  Come on now, no beating about the bush I am A LOT goofy!! Lol.
All I seem to do these days is smile and laugh and love shitloads, godammmm hippy shit!!!!
I’ll be sucking on beads next and wearing stupid head bands lmao.
But fanks!!
It’s good having you hear too mate!!
Aroha to all (love, n all dat hippy shit)
Kirsty :o)
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net] 
Sent: Monday, 7 November 2005 10:21 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Erasing memories and its potential for addiction treatment
Kirk, you are a little goofy, but you “Get it”. I am honored by your presence and appreciate your being here. 

Kirk wrote:
LOL
You are so full of surprises Mr don man!!!
Keeping us intrigued, what’s next?? 🙂
Do ibogaine man!!!!  Should be verrryyy interesting!!!
Lol
Kirk xx
—–Original Message—–
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net]
Sent: Monday, 7 November 2005 9:54 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Erasing memories and its potential for addiction
treatment
WHAAA???  Man, you guys crack me UP! Mass hypnotic suggestion,
mal-distribution of wealth. BEAUTIFULLY written, though, almost hypnotic
in itself, BRAVO!
Hypnosis has to be allowed to happen, I have no need for it, therefore,
I cannot be hypnotized. ANY hypnotist will agree, they cannot work with
a subject that does not believe hypnotism is possible for them. Hypnosis
is merely a way to step behind repressed feelings and key an outburst of
the child. Sillyness, innocenct, playful, imiginative is brought to the
surface. But convince me to buy a new Hummer, no, sorry.
Bill Gates didn’t win the lottery, nor did Steve Forbes or Donald Trump.
And dismissing their accomplishments to justify your shortcomings may
feed your ego, and the ego feeds on lies. Actually, both of you are very
gifted writers, and if you would just step out of the misery pool, then
maybe you could use some hypnotic suggestions to sell a book or two. I
mean, if it’s so easy, why not take advantage of it? If you can be
manipulated so easily, then why can you not manipulate? Then, we can
blame YOU for winning life’s lottery. And you can make a fortune selling
us dimrods the clue!
People unwilling to offend their moral values, and realistic enough to
know the lotteries are a con, tend to look for spiritual answers, a way
to “progress”, but not in a material sense- since that game is fixed.
This is priceless, “I’m too honest to get rich, and if I do, that means
I am corrupted somehow, since all who do not need are theives and
liars”. I cannot support myself because I am moral, yet the immoral need
to support me for they have taken what I have earned.
And increasingly, people see that hard work will no longer get
you there; you either need luck, as in the lotteries, or you need some
kind of con to be upwardly mobile.
Yeah, hard work WON’T get you there. Recognize your talent and cultivate
it. That isn’t work, that’s getting paid to do what you LOVE to do.
You talk about brainwashing, look in the mirror, you hypocrit, you are
amazing as a writer and I, at least, am very interested in what you have
to say. You have brainwashed yourself into belittleling one friggin’
amazing human being with SOOO much to offer.
I need another beer.
Day Brown wrote:
Carol Ann wrote:
Day, The “magical” practices can be easily attributed to
sophisticated marketing continually under development
via mass hypnotic suggestion, those employed by
hypnotherapists since the discovery and confirmation
of the subconsious mind. This is rather long read and
hopefully, you might find it interesting as few are
exempt unless knowledgable about how it is employed.
You results will vary. Wallace, after coining “magical thinking”,
went on to suggest that as the system declines, people’s coping skills
no longer work so well, so they seek new methods. Two of the symptoms
of decline is increasing corruption and worsening mal-distribution of
wealth. And increasingly, people see that hard work will no longer get
you there; you either need luck, as in the lotteries, or you need some
kind of con to be upwardly mobile.
People unwilling to offend their moral values, and realistic enough to
know the lotteries are a con, tend to look for spiritual answers, a way
to “progress”, but not in a material sense- since that game is fixed.
If they do stay in the rat race, then they try to use astrology or some
other divination tool to improve their odds… magical thinking. I have
no opinion on how effective any of these may be for any individual.
Your Kharma may vary. My own is such that friends try to do me good, but
it always backfires. I still have to be grateful to be inconvenienced.
The magical thinking that works most often is that which comes from some
entheogen and the altered state of consciousness where you get to step
back from the ego to dispassionately look at your interactions. You wont
get ahead, but you get to live more easily not trying.
If your kharma is such that Sutphen’s hypnotism or any other path works
for you and makes you as successful as you hoped, I dont have a problem
with that. And I’m fine if others find that path useful. But I know my
own kharma; for me, Vedic ‘non-action’ works. I can sit, I can wait, and
I can think about what I learned. I dont need to do more.
I agree that brainwashing in pervasive. That dont mean that I have the
Kharmic power to change that for anyone. For instance, my search into
how we got where we are led me to buy JP Mallory, “In Search of the Indo
-Europeans”. Mallory is a rightfully well respected scholar and field
archaeologist, yet the cover of his work shows, as he describes it on the
cover of his book, “bronze figure of an Iranian Steppe nomad taking a
classic “parthian” shot over his shoulder.” close quote.
http://anzi.hypertech.net/artifax.htm
shows a jpg I posted of the book cover. You can plainly see *HER* left
tit. Mallory’s book is full of clues that he himself doesnt see showing
that the original Aryans were matriarchic. How many warrior graves do
they have to find with female DNA and pelvises to admit that Amazons
were a lot more than just mythic? The brainwashing is, as noted, so
pervasive nobody knows it exists.
The few who do know are too few to have the power to do anything about
it. We live cassandrine lives; but better than than a fool.
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] OT:- Re: Don!!
Date: November 6, 2005 at 4:28:38 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Awwwww just a little?  Come on now, no beating about the bush I am A LOT goofy!! Lol.
All I seem to do these days is smile and laugh and love shitloads, godammmm hippy shit!!!!
I’ll be sucking on beads next and wearing stupid head bands lmao.
But fanks!!
It’s good having you hear too mate!!
Aroha to all (love, n all dat hippy shit)
Kirsty :o)
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net] 
Sent: Monday, 7 November 2005 10:21 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Erasing memories and its potential for addiction treatment
Kirk, you are a little goofy, but you “Get it”. I am honored by your presence and appreciate your being here. 

Kirk wrote:
LOL
You are so full of surprises Mr don man!!!
Keeping us intrigued, what’s next?? 🙂
Do ibogaine man!!!!  Should be verrryyy interesting!!!
Lol
Kirk xx
—–Original Message—–
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net]
Sent: Monday, 7 November 2005 9:54 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Erasing memories and its potential for addiction
treatment
WHAAA???  Man, you guys crack me UP! Mass hypnotic suggestion,
mal-distribution of wealth. BEAUTIFULLY written, though, almost hypnotic
in itself, BRAVO!
Hypnosis has to be allowed to happen, I have no need for it, therefore,
I cannot be hypnotized. ANY hypnotist will agree, they cannot work with
a subject that does not believe hypnotism is possible for them. Hypnosis
is merely a way to step behind repressed feelings and key an outburst of
the child. Sillyness, innocenct, playful, imiginative is brought to the
surface. But convince me to buy a new Hummer, no, sorry.
Bill Gates didn’t win the lottery, nor did Steve Forbes or Donald Trump.
And dismissing their accomplishments to justify your shortcomings may
feed your ego, and the ego feeds on lies. Actually, both of you are very
gifted writers, and if you would just step out of the misery pool, then
maybe you could use some hypnotic suggestions to sell a book or two. I
mean, if it’s so easy, why not take advantage of it? If you can be
manipulated so easily, then why can you not manipulate? Then, we can
blame YOU for winning life’s lottery. And you can make a fortune selling
us dimrods the clue!
People unwilling to offend their moral values, and realistic enough to
know the lotteries are a con, tend to look for spiritual answers, a way
to “progress”, but not in a material sense- since that game is fixed.
This is priceless, “I’m too honest to get rich, and if I do, that means
I am corrupted somehow, since all who do not need are theives and
liars”. I cannot support myself because I am moral, yet the immoral need
to support me for they have taken what I have earned.
And increasingly, people see that hard work will no longer get
you there; you either need luck, as in the lotteries, or you need some
kind of con to be upwardly mobile.
Yeah, hard work WON’T get you there. Recognize your talent and cultivate
it. That isn’t work, that’s getting paid to do what you LOVE to do.
You talk about brainwashing, look in the mirror, you hypocrit, you are
amazing as a writer and I, at least, am very interested in what you have
to say. You have brainwashed yourself into belittleling one friggin’
amazing human being with SOOO much to offer.
I need another beer.
Day Brown wrote:
Carol Ann wrote:
Day, The “magical” practices can be easily attributed to
sophisticated marketing continually under development
via mass hypnotic suggestion, those employed by
hypnotherapists since the discovery and confirmation
of the subconsious mind. This is rather long read and
hopefully, you might find it interesting as few are
exempt unless knowledgable about how it is employed.
You results will vary. Wallace, after coining “magical thinking”,
went on to suggest that as the system declines, people’s coping skills
no longer work so well, so they seek new methods. Two of the symptoms
of decline is increasing corruption and worsening mal-distribution of
wealth. And increasingly, people see that hard work will no longer get
you there; you either need luck, as in the lotteries, or you need some
kind of con to be upwardly mobile.
People unwilling to offend their moral values, and realistic enough to
know the lotteries are a con, tend to look for spiritual answers, a way
to “progress”, but not in a material sense- since that game is fixed.
If they do stay in the rat race, then they try to use astrology or some
other divination tool to improve their odds… magical thinking. I have
no opinion on how effective any of these may be for any individual.
Your Kharma may vary. My own is such that friends try to do me good, but
it always backfires. I still have to be grateful to be inconvenienced.
The magical thinking that works most often is that which comes from some
entheogen and the altered state of consciousness where you get to step
back from the ego to dispassionately look at your interactions. You wont
get ahead, but you get to live more easily not trying.
If your kharma is such that Sutphen’s hypnotism or any other path works
for you and makes you as successful as you hoped, I dont have a problem
with that. And I’m fine if others find that path useful. But I know my
own kharma; for me, Vedic ‘non-action’ works. I can sit, I can wait, and
I can think about what I learned. I dont need to do more.
I agree that brainwashing in pervasive. That dont mean that I have the
Kharmic power to change that for anyone. For instance, my search into
how we got where we are led me to buy JP Mallory, “In Search of the Indo
-Europeans”. Mallory is a rightfully well respected scholar and field
archaeologist, yet the cover of his work shows, as he describes it on the
cover of his book, “bronze figure of an Iranian Steppe nomad taking a
classic “parthian” shot over his shoulder.” close quote.
http://anzi.hypertech.net/artifax.htm
shows a jpg I posted of the book cover. You can plainly see *HER* left
tit. Mallory’s book is full of clues that he himself doesnt see showing
that the original Aryans were matriarchic. How many warrior graves do
they have to find with female DNA and pelvises to admit that Amazons
were a lot more than just mythic? The brainwashing is, as noted, so
pervasive nobody knows it exists.
The few who do know are too few to have the power to do anything about
it. We live cassandrine lives; but better than than a fool.
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Erasing memories and its potential for addiction treatment
Date: November 6, 2005 at 4:21:11 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Kirk, you are a little goofy, but you “Get it”. I am honored by your presence and appreciate your being here.
Kirk wrote:
LOL
You are so full of surprises Mr don man!!!
Keeping us intrigued, what’s next?? 🙂
Do ibogaine man!!!!  Should be verrryyy interesting!!!
Lol
Kirk xx
—–Original Message—–
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net]
Sent: Monday, 7 November 2005 9:54 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Erasing memories and its potential for addiction
treatment
WHAAA???  Man, you guys crack me UP! Mass hypnotic suggestion,
mal-distribution of wealth. BEAUTIFULLY written, though, almost hypnotic
in itself, BRAVO!
Hypnosis has to be allowed to happen, I have no need for it, therefore,
I cannot be hypnotized. ANY hypnotist will agree, they cannot work with
a subject that does not believe hypnotism is possible for them. Hypnosis
is merely a way to step behind repressed feelings and key an outburst of
the child. Sillyness, innocenct, playful, imiginative is brought to the
surface. But convince me to buy a new Hummer, no, sorry.
Bill Gates didn’t win the lottery, nor did Steve Forbes or Donald Trump.
And dismissing their accomplishments to justify your shortcomings may
feed your ego, and the ego feeds on lies. Actually, both of you are very
gifted writers, and if you would just step out of the misery pool, then
maybe you could use some hypnotic suggestions to sell a book or two. I
mean, if it’s so easy, why not take advantage of it? If you can be
manipulated so easily, then why can you not manipulate? Then, we can
blame YOU for winning life’s lottery. And you can make a fortune selling
us dimrods the clue!
People unwilling to offend their moral values, and realistic enough to
know the lotteries are a con, tend to look for spiritual answers, a way
to “progress”, but not in a material sense- since that game is fixed.
This is priceless, “I’m too honest to get rich, and if I do, that means
I am corrupted somehow, since all who do not need are theives and
liars”. I cannot support myself because I am moral, yet the immoral need
to support me for they have taken what I have earned.
And increasingly, people see that hard work will no longer get
you there; you either need luck, as in the lotteries, or you need some
kind of con to be upwardly mobile.
Yeah, hard work WON’T get you there. Recognize your talent and cultivate
it. That isn’t work, that’s getting paid to do what you LOVE to do.
You talk about brainwashing, look in the mirror, you hypocrit, you are
amazing as a writer and I, at least, am very interested in what you have
to say. You have brainwashed yourself into belittleling one friggin’
amazing human being with SOOO much to offer.
I need another beer.
Day Brown wrote:
Carol Ann wrote:
Day, The “magical” practices can be easily attributed to
sophisticated marketing continually under development
via mass hypnotic suggestion, those employed by
hypnotherapists since the discovery and confirmation
of the subconsious mind. This is rather long read and
hopefully, you might find it interesting as few are
exempt unless knowledgable about how it is employed.
You results will vary. Wallace, after coining “magical thinking”,
went on to suggest that as the system declines, people’s coping skills
no longer work so well, so they seek new methods. Two of the symptoms
of decline is increasing corruption and worsening mal-distribution of
wealth. And increasingly, people see that hard work will no longer get
you there; you either need luck, as in the lotteries, or you need some
kind of con to be upwardly mobile.
People unwilling to offend their moral values, and realistic enough to
know the lotteries are a con, tend to look for spiritual answers, a way
to “progress”, but not in a material sense- since that game is fixed.
If they do stay in the rat race, then they try to use astrology or some
other divination tool to improve their odds… magical thinking. I have
no opinion on how effective any of these may be for any individual.
Your Kharma may vary. My own is such that friends try to do me good, but
it always backfires. I still have to be grateful to be inconvenienced.
The magical thinking that works most often is that which comes from some
entheogen and the altered state of consciousness where you get to step
back from the ego to dispassionately look at your interactions. You wont
get ahead, but you get to live more easily not trying.
If your kharma is such that Sutphen’s hypnotism or any other path works
for you and makes you as successful as you hoped, I dont have a problem
with that. And I’m fine if others find that path useful. But I know my
own kharma; for me, Vedic ‘non-action’ works. I can sit, I can wait, and
I can think about what I learned. I dont need to do more.
I agree that brainwashing in pervasive. That dont mean that I have the
Kharmic power to change that for anyone. For instance, my search into
how we got where we are led me to buy JP Mallory, “In Search of the Indo
-Europeans”. Mallory is a rightfully well respected scholar and field
archaeologist, yet the cover of his work shows, as he describes it on the
cover of his book, “bronze figure of an Iranian Steppe nomad taking a
classic “parthian” shot over his shoulder.” close quote.
http://anzi.hypertech.net/artifax.htm
shows a jpg I posted of the book cover. You can plainly see *HER* left
tit. Mallory’s book is full of clues that he himself doesnt see showing
that the original Aryans were matriarchic. How many warrior graves do
they have to find with female DNA and pelvises to admit that Amazons
were a lot more than just mythic? The brainwashing is, as noted, so
pervasive nobody knows it exists.
The few who do know are too few to have the power to do anything about
it. We live cassandrine lives; but better than than a fool.
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: Krista Vaughan <krista.vaughan@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Erasing memories and its potential for addiction treatment
Date: November 6, 2005 at 4:19:46 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Wow, this was one of the most thoughtful, articulate and funny
messages anyone has ever written here. Thank you Don, you made me
laugh and said some truths much better than most can. You should write
a book too 😉
KV
On 11/6/05, Don Patton <SuperBee@tstar.net> wrote:
WHAAA???  Man, you guys crack me UP! Mass hypnotic suggestion,
mal-distribution of wealth. BEAUTIFULLY written, though, almost hypnotic
in itself, BRAVO!
Hypnosis has to be allowed to happen, I have no need for it, therefore,
I cannot be hypnotized. ANY hypnotist will agree, they cannot work with
a subject that does not believe hypnotism is possible for them. Hypnosis
is merely a way to step behind repressed feelings and key an outburst of
the child. Sillyness, innocenct, playful, imiginative is brought to the
surface. But convince me to buy a new Hummer, no, sorry.
Bill Gates didn’t win the lottery, nor did Steve Forbes or Donald Trump.
And dismissing their accomplishments to justify your shortcomings may
feed your ego, and the ego feeds on lies. Actually, both of you are very
gifted writers, and if you would just step out of the misery pool, then
maybe you could use some hypnotic suggestions to sell a book or two. I
mean, if it’s so easy, why not take advantage of it? If you can be
manipulated so easily, then why can you not manipulate? Then, we can
blame YOU for winning life’s lottery. And you can make a fortune selling
us dimrods the clue!
People unwilling to offend their moral values, and realistic enough to
know the lotteries are a con, tend to look for spiritual answers, a way
to “progress”, but not in a material sense- since that game is fixed.
This is priceless, “I’m too honest to get rich, and if I do, that means
I am corrupted somehow, since all who do not need are theives and
liars”. I cannot support myself because I am moral, yet the immoral need
to support me for they have taken what I have earned.
And increasingly, people see that hard work will no longer get
you there; you either need luck, as in the lotteries, or you need some
kind of con to be upwardly mobile.
Yeah, hard work WON’T get you there. Recognize your talent and cultivate
it. That isn’t work, that’s getting paid to do what you LOVE to do.
You talk about brainwashing, look in the mirror, you hypocrit, you are
amazing as a writer and I, at least, am very interested in what you have
to say. You have brainwashed yourself into belittleling one friggin’
amazing human being with SOOO much to offer.
I need another beer.
Day Brown wrote:
Carol Ann wrote:
Day, The “magical” practices can be easily attributed to
sophisticated marketing continually under development
via mass hypnotic suggestion, those employed by
hypnotherapists since the discovery and confirmation
of the subconsious mind. This is rather long read and
hopefully, you might find it interesting as few are
exempt unless knowledgable about how it is employed.
You results will vary. Wallace, after coining “magical thinking”,
went on to suggest that as the system declines, people’s coping skills
no longer work so well, so they seek new methods. Two of the symptoms
of decline is increasing corruption and worsening mal-distribution of
wealth. And increasingly, people see that hard work will no longer get
you there; you either need luck, as in the lotteries, or you need some
kind of con to be upwardly mobile.
People unwilling to offend their moral values, and realistic enough to
know the lotteries are a con, tend to look for spiritual answers, a way
to “progress”, but not in a material sense- since that game is fixed.
If they do stay in the rat race, then they try to use astrology or some
other divination tool to improve their odds… magical thinking. I have
no opinion on how effective any of these may be for any individual.
Your Kharma may vary. My own is such that friends try to do me good, but
it always backfires. I still have to be grateful to be inconvenienced.
The magical thinking that works most often is that which comes from some
entheogen and the altered state of consciousness where you get to step
back from the ego to dispassionately look at your interactions. You wont
get ahead, but you get to live more easily not trying.
If your kharma is such that Sutphen’s hypnotism or any other path works
for you and makes you as successful as you hoped, I dont have a problem
with that. And I’m fine if others find that path useful. But I know my
own kharma; for me, Vedic ‘non-action’ works. I can sit, I can wait, and
I can think about what I learned. I dont need to do more.
I agree that brainwashing in pervasive. That dont mean that I have the
Kharmic power to change that for anyone. For instance, my search into
how we got where we are led me to buy JP Mallory, “In Search of the Indo
-Europeans”. Mallory is a rightfully well respected scholar and field
archaeologist, yet the cover of his work shows, as he describes it on the
cover of his book, “bronze figure of an Iranian Steppe nomad taking a
classic “parthian” shot over his shoulder.” close quote.
http://anzi.hypertech.net/artifax.htm
shows a jpg I posted of the book cover. You can plainly see *HER* left
tit. Mallory’s book is full of clues that he himself doesnt see showing
that the original Aryans were matriarchic. How many warrior graves do
they have to find with female DNA and pelvises to admit that Amazons
were a lot more than just mythic? The brainwashing is, as noted, so
pervasive nobody knows it exists.
The few who do know are too few to have the power to do anything about
it. We live cassandrine lives; but better than than a fool.
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
 /]=———————————————————————=[\
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 \]=———————————————————————=[/
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 \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Erasing memories and its potential for addiction treatment
Date: November 6, 2005 at 3:59:58 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
LOL
You are so full of surprises Mr don man!!!
Keeping us intrigued, what’s next?? 🙂
Do ibogaine man!!!!  Should be verrryyy interesting!!!
Lol
Kirk xx
—–Original Message—–
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net]
Sent: Monday, 7 November 2005 9:54 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Erasing memories and its potential for addiction
treatment
WHAAA???  Man, you guys crack me UP! Mass hypnotic suggestion,
mal-distribution of wealth. BEAUTIFULLY written, though, almost hypnotic
in itself, BRAVO!
Hypnosis has to be allowed to happen, I have no need for it, therefore,
I cannot be hypnotized. ANY hypnotist will agree, they cannot work with
a subject that does not believe hypnotism is possible for them. Hypnosis
is merely a way to step behind repressed feelings and key an outburst of
the child. Sillyness, innocenct, playful, imiginative is brought to the
surface. But convince me to buy a new Hummer, no, sorry.
Bill Gates didn’t win the lottery, nor did Steve Forbes or Donald Trump.
And dismissing their accomplishments to justify your shortcomings may
feed your ego, and the ego feeds on lies. Actually, both of you are very
gifted writers, and if you would just step out of the misery pool, then
maybe you could use some hypnotic suggestions to sell a book or two. I
mean, if it’s so easy, why not take advantage of it? If you can be
manipulated so easily, then why can you not manipulate? Then, we can
blame YOU for winning life’s lottery. And you can make a fortune selling
us dimrods the clue!
People unwilling to offend their moral values, and realistic enough to
know the lotteries are a con, tend to look for spiritual answers, a way
to “progress”, but not in a material sense- since that game is fixed.
This is priceless, “I’m too honest to get rich, and if I do, that means
I am corrupted somehow, since all who do not need are theives and
liars”. I cannot support myself because I am moral, yet the immoral need
to support me for they have taken what I have earned.
And increasingly, people see that hard work will no longer get
you there; you either need luck, as in the lotteries, or you need some
kind of con to be upwardly mobile.
Yeah, hard work WON’T get you there. Recognize your talent and cultivate
it. That isn’t work, that’s getting paid to do what you LOVE to do.
You talk about brainwashing, look in the mirror, you hypocrit, you are
amazing as a writer and I, at least, am very interested in what you have
to say. You have brainwashed yourself into belittleling one friggin’
amazing human being with SOOO much to offer.
I need another beer.
Day Brown wrote:
Carol Ann wrote:
Day, The “magical” practices can be easily attributed to
sophisticated marketing continually under development
via mass hypnotic suggestion, those employed by
hypnotherapists since the discovery and confirmation
of the subconsious mind. This is rather long read and
hopefully, you might find it interesting as few are
exempt unless knowledgable about how it is employed.
You results will vary. Wallace, after coining “magical thinking”,
went on to suggest that as the system declines, people’s coping skills
no longer work so well, so they seek new methods. Two of the symptoms
of decline is increasing corruption and worsening mal-distribution of
wealth. And increasingly, people see that hard work will no longer get
you there; you either need luck, as in the lotteries, or you need some
kind of con to be upwardly mobile.
People unwilling to offend their moral values, and realistic enough to
know the lotteries are a con, tend to look for spiritual answers, a way
to “progress”, but not in a material sense- since that game is fixed.
If they do stay in the rat race, then they try to use astrology or some
other divination tool to improve their odds… magical thinking. I have
no opinion on how effective any of these may be for any individual.
Your Kharma may vary. My own is such that friends try to do me good, but
it always backfires. I still have to be grateful to be inconvenienced.
The magical thinking that works most often is that which comes from some
entheogen and the altered state of consciousness where you get to step
back from the ego to dispassionately look at your interactions. You wont
get ahead, but you get to live more easily not trying.
If your kharma is such that Sutphen’s hypnotism or any other path works
for you and makes you as successful as you hoped, I dont have a problem
with that. And I’m fine if others find that path useful. But I know my
own kharma; for me, Vedic ‘non-action’ works. I can sit, I can wait, and
I can think about what I learned. I dont need to do more.
I agree that brainwashing in pervasive. That dont mean that I have the
Kharmic power to change that for anyone. For instance, my search into
how we got where we are led me to buy JP Mallory, “In Search of the Indo
-Europeans”. Mallory is a rightfully well respected scholar and field
archaeologist, yet the cover of his work shows, as he describes it on the
cover of his book, “bronze figure of an Iranian Steppe nomad taking a
classic “parthian” shot over his shoulder.” close quote.
http://anzi.hypertech.net/artifax.htm
shows a jpg I posted of the book cover. You can plainly see *HER* left
tit. Mallory’s book is full of clues that he himself doesnt see showing
that the original Aryans were matriarchic. How many warrior graves do
they have to find with female DNA and pelvises to admit that Amazons
were a lot more than just mythic? The brainwashing is, as noted, so
pervasive nobody knows it exists.
The few who do know are too few to have the power to do anything about
it. We live cassandrine lives; but better than than a fool.
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
 /]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
 \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Erasing memories and its potential for addiction treatment
Date: November 6, 2005 at 3:57:57 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Oh, yeah, the tit shot sucked
Don Patton wrote:
WHAAA???  Man, you guys crack me UP! Mass hypnotic suggestion, mal-distribution of wealth. BEAUTIFULLY written, though, almost hypnotic in itself, BRAVO!
Hypnosis has to be allowed to happen, I have no need for it, therefore, I cannot be hypnotized. ANY hypnotist will agree, they cannot work with a subject that does not believe hypnotism is possible for them. Hypnosis is merely a way to step behind repressed feelings and key an outburst of the child. Sillyness, innocenct, playful, imiginative is brought to the surface. But convince me to buy a new Hummer, no, sorry.
Bill Gates didn’t win the lottery, nor did Steve Forbes or Donald Trump. And dismissing their accomplishments to justify your shortcomings may feed your ego, and the ego feeds on lies. Actually, both of you are very gifted writers, and if you would just step out of the misery pool, then maybe you could use some hypnotic suggestions to sell a book or two. I mean, if it’s so easy, why not take advantage of it? If you can be manipulated so easily, then why can you not manipulate? Then, we can blame YOU for winning life’s lottery. And you can make a fortune selling us dimrods the clue!
People unwilling to offend their moral values, and realistic enough to
know the lotteries are a con, tend to look for spiritual answers, a way
to “progress”, but not in a material sense- since that game is fixed.
This is priceless, “I’m too honest to get rich, and if I do, that means I am corrupted somehow, since all who do not need are theives and liars”. I cannot support myself because I am moral, yet the immoral need to support me for they have taken what I have earned.
And increasingly, people see that hard work will no longer get
you there; you either need luck, as in the lotteries, or you need some
kind of con to be upwardly mobile.
Yeah, hard work WON’T get you there. Recognize your talent and cultivate it. That isn’t work, that’s getting paid to do what you LOVE to do.
You talk about brainwashing, look in the mirror, you hypocrit, you are amazing as a writer and I, at least, am very interested in what you have to say. You have brainwashed yourself into belittleling one friggin’ amazing human being with SOOO much to offer.
I need another beer.
Day Brown wrote:
Carol Ann wrote:
Day, The “magical” practices can be easily attributed to
sophisticated marketing continually under development
via mass hypnotic suggestion, those employed by
hypnotherapists since the discovery and confirmation
of the subconsious mind. This is rather long read and
hopefully, you might find it interesting as few are
exempt unless knowledgable about how it is employed.
You results will vary. Wallace, after coining “magical thinking”,
went on to suggest that as the system declines, people’s coping skills
no longer work so well, so they seek new methods. Two of the symptoms
of decline is increasing corruption and worsening mal-distribution of
wealth. And increasingly, people see that hard work will no longer get
you there; you either need luck, as in the lotteries, or you need some
kind of con to be upwardly mobile.
People unwilling to offend their moral values, and realistic enough to
know the lotteries are a con, tend to look for spiritual answers, a way
to “progress”, but not in a material sense- since that game is fixed.
If they do stay in the rat race, then they try to use astrology or some
other divination tool to improve their odds… magical thinking. I have
no opinion on how effective any of these may be for any individual.
Your Kharma may vary. My own is such that friends try to do me good, but
it always backfires. I still have to be grateful to be inconvenienced.
The magical thinking that works most often is that which comes from some
entheogen and the altered state of consciousness where you get to step
back from the ego to dispassionately look at your interactions. You wont
get ahead, but you get to live more easily not trying.
If your kharma is such that Sutphen’s hypnotism or any other path works
for you and makes you as successful as you hoped, I dont have a problem
with that. And I’m fine if others find that path useful. But I know my
own kharma; for me, Vedic ‘non-action’ works. I can sit, I can wait, and
I can think about what I learned. I dont need to do more.
I agree that brainwashing in pervasive. That dont mean that I have the
Kharmic power to change that for anyone. For instance, my search into
how we got where we are led me to buy JP Mallory, “In Search of the Indo
-Europeans”. Mallory is a rightfully well respected scholar and field
archaeologist, yet the cover of his work shows, as he describes it on the
cover of his book, “bronze figure of an Iranian Steppe nomad taking a
classic “parthian” shot over his shoulder.” close quote.
http://anzi.hypertech.net/artifax.htm
shows a jpg I posted of the book cover. You can plainly see *HER* left
tit. Mallory’s book is full of clues that he himself doesnt see showing
that the original Aryans were matriarchic. How many warrior graves do
they have to find with female DNA and pelvises to admit that Amazons
were a lot more than just mythic? The brainwashing is, as noted, so
pervasive nobody knows it exists.
The few who do know are too few to have the power to do anything about
it. We live cassandrine lives; but better than than a fool.
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/
From: Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Erasing memories and its potential for addiction treatment
Date: November 6, 2005 at 3:54:22 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
WHAAA???  Man, you guys crack me UP! Mass hypnotic suggestion, mal-distribution of wealth. BEAUTIFULLY written, though, almost hypnotic in itself, BRAVO!
Hypnosis has to be allowed to happen, I have no need for it, therefore, I cannot be hypnotized. ANY hypnotist will agree, they cannot work with a subject that does not believe hypnotism is possible for them. Hypnosis is merely a way to step behind repressed feelings and key an outburst of the child. Sillyness, innocenct, playful, imiginative is brought to the surface. But convince me to buy a new Hummer, no, sorry.
Bill Gates didn’t win the lottery, nor did Steve Forbes or Donald Trump. And dismissing their accomplishments to justify your shortcomings may feed your ego, and the ego feeds on lies. Actually, both of you are very gifted writers, and if you would just step out of the misery pool, then maybe you could use some hypnotic suggestions to sell a book or two. I mean, if it’s so easy, why not take advantage of it? If you can be manipulated so easily, then why can you not manipulate? Then, we can blame YOU for winning life’s lottery. And you can make a fortune selling us dimrods the clue!
People unwilling to offend their moral values, and realistic enough to
know the lotteries are a con, tend to look for spiritual answers, a way
to “progress”, but not in a material sense- since that game is fixed.
This is priceless, “I’m too honest to get rich, and if I do, that means I am corrupted somehow, since all who do not need are theives and liars”. I cannot support myself because I am moral, yet the immoral need to support me for they have taken what I have earned.
And increasingly, people see that hard work will no longer get
you there; you either need luck, as in the lotteries, or you need some
kind of con to be upwardly mobile.
Yeah, hard work WON’T get you there. Recognize your talent and cultivate it. That isn’t work, that’s getting paid to do what you LOVE to do.
You talk about brainwashing, look in the mirror, you hypocrit, you are amazing as a writer and I, at least, am very interested in what you have to say. You have brainwashed yourself into belittleling one friggin’ amazing human being with SOOO much to offer.
I need another beer.
Day Brown wrote:
Carol Ann wrote:
Day, The “magical” practices can be easily attributed to
sophisticated marketing continually under development
via mass hypnotic suggestion, those employed by
hypnotherapists since the discovery and confirmation
of the subconsious mind. This is rather long read and
hopefully, you might find it interesting as few are
exempt unless knowledgable about how it is employed.
You results will vary. Wallace, after coining “magical thinking”,
went on to suggest that as the system declines, people’s coping skills
no longer work so well, so they seek new methods. Two of the symptoms
of decline is increasing corruption and worsening mal-distribution of
wealth. And increasingly, people see that hard work will no longer get
you there; you either need luck, as in the lotteries, or you need some
kind of con to be upwardly mobile.
People unwilling to offend their moral values, and realistic enough to
know the lotteries are a con, tend to look for spiritual answers, a way
to “progress”, but not in a material sense- since that game is fixed.
If they do stay in the rat race, then they try to use astrology or some
other divination tool to improve their odds… magical thinking. I have
no opinion on how effective any of these may be for any individual.
Your Kharma may vary. My own is such that friends try to do me good, but
it always backfires. I still have to be grateful to be inconvenienced.
The magical thinking that works most often is that which comes from some
entheogen and the altered state of consciousness where you get to step
back from the ego to dispassionately look at your interactions. You wont
get ahead, but you get to live more easily not trying.
If your kharma is such that Sutphen’s hypnotism or any other path works
for you and makes you as successful as you hoped, I dont have a problem
with that. And I’m fine if others find that path useful. But I know my
own kharma; for me, Vedic ‘non-action’ works. I can sit, I can wait, and
I can think about what I learned. I dont need to do more.
I agree that brainwashing in pervasive. That dont mean that I have the
Kharmic power to change that for anyone. For instance, my search into
how we got where we are led me to buy JP Mallory, “In Search of the Indo
-Europeans”. Mallory is a rightfully well respected scholar and field
archaeologist, yet the cover of his work shows, as he describes it on the
cover of his book, “bronze figure of an Iranian Steppe nomad taking a
classic “parthian” shot over his shoulder.” close quote.
http://anzi.hypertech.net/artifax.htm
shows a jpg I posted of the book cover. You can plainly see *HER* left
tit. Mallory’s book is full of clues that he himself doesnt see showing
that the original Aryans were matriarchic. How many warrior graves do
they have to find with female DNA and pelvises to admit that Amazons
were a lot more than just mythic? The brainwashing is, as noted, so
pervasive nobody knows it exists.
The few who do know are too few to have the power to do anything about
it. We live cassandrine lives; but better than than a fool.
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
From: Day Brown <daybrown@artelco.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Erasing memories and its potential for addiction treatment
Date: November 6, 2005 at 2:24:12 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Carol Ann wrote:
Day, The “magical” practices can be easily attributed to
sophisticated marketing continually under development
via mass hypnotic suggestion, those employed by
hypnotherapists since the discovery and confirmation
of the subconsious mind. This is rather long read and
hopefully, you might find it interesting as few are
exempt unless knowledgable about how it is employed.
You results will vary. Wallace, after coining “magical thinking”,
went on to suggest that as the system declines, people’s coping skills
no longer work so well, so they seek new methods. Two of the symptoms
of decline is increasing corruption and worsening mal-distribution of
wealth. And increasingly, people see that hard work will no longer get
you there; you either need luck, as in the lotteries, or you need some
kind of con to be upwardly mobile.
People unwilling to offend their moral values, and realistic enough to
know the lotteries are a con, tend to look for spiritual answers, a way
to “progress”, but not in a material sense- since that game is fixed.
If they do stay in the rat race, then they try to use astrology or some
other divination tool to improve their odds… magical thinking. I have
no opinion on how effective any of these may be for any individual.
Your Kharma may vary. My own is such that friends try to do me good, but
it always backfires. I still have to be grateful to be inconvenienced.
The magical thinking that works most often is that which comes from some
entheogen and the altered state of consciousness where you get to step
back from the ego to dispassionately look at your interactions. You wont
get ahead, but you get to live more easily not trying.
If your kharma is such that Sutphen’s hypnotism or any other path works
for you and makes you as successful as you hoped, I dont have a problem
with that. And I’m fine if others find that path useful. But I know my
own kharma; for me, Vedic ‘non-action’ works. I can sit, I can wait, and
I can think about what I learned. I dont need to do more.
I agree that brainwashing in pervasive. That dont mean that I have the
Kharmic power to change that for anyone. For instance, my search into
how we got where we are led me to buy JP Mallory, “In Search of the Indo
-Europeans”. Mallory is a rightfully well respected scholar and field
archaeologist, yet the cover of his work shows, as he describes it on the
cover of his book, “bronze figure of an Iranian Steppe nomad taking a
classic “parthian” shot over his shoulder.” close quote.
http://anzi.hypertech.net/artifax.htm
shows a jpg I posted of the book cover. You can plainly see *HER* left
tit. Mallory’s book is full of clues that he himself doesnt see showing
that the original Aryans were matriarchic. How many warrior graves do
they have to find with female DNA and pelvises to admit that Amazons
were a lot more than just mythic? The brainwashing is, as noted, so
pervasive nobody knows it exists.
The few who do know are too few to have the power to do anything about
it. We live cassandrine lives; but better than than a fool.
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] To: Day & Sara & Ron & Matt & Brenda & Kirk
Date: November 6, 2005 at 1:03:36 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
.
Kirk keeps us all laughing, responding. Dr. Laura once said ” If you
keep your head above the crowd, you are gonna get hit with the first
shoe that’s thrown”. That’s Kirk, the one with the shoe embedded in the
back of her head. LMAO!!
You guys keep up the good work, we are not here by accident.
Bee
KIRK:- Ohhhhhhhhhhh Well no bloody wonder I can’t sleep on my back
anymore!!!!  Cheers mate, going to get it removed today!!!!!
;o)
Good email… and yes I thank the list everyday
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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Erasing memories and its potential for addiction treatment
Date: November 6, 2005 at 12:58:40 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Yehhh man, you guyz are SCREWED!!
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net] 
Sent: Monday, 7 November 2005 4:30 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Erasing memories and its potential for addiction treatment
Gee, maybe we could reinstall Clinton and bring some REAL integrity back to the White House….

Carol Ann wrote:
Well, I will make it no secret, hopefully it will come
to exactly that…..a “conviction” and removal from
office. 🙂
— Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz> wrote:
]. Thus the demonstrable
rise in Christian fundamentalism, and a president
who operates out of
his conviction rather than his facts.
Conviction huh? Gee, I’ve never heard anyone call it
that before!!!
;o)
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Best regards,
Carol
_______________________________
Never Accept Only Two Choices in Life.
The problems of Today cannot be solved by the same thinking that created them.
-Al Einstein.
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail – PC Magazine Editors’ Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
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From: Carol Ann <saffireskyes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] entheogens – Peyote
Date: November 6, 2005 at 11:56:08 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
   The Associated Press
Study: Religious use of peyote not harmful to American
Indians
By Michael Kunzelman, Associated Press Writer  |
November 4, 2005
BOSTON –For John Halpern to study the effects of
peyote on American Indians who use the hallucinogenic
cactus in religious ceremonies, observing from a
distance was not an option.
Halpern lived on the Navajo Nation reservation for
months at a time and participated in prayer
ceremonies. Earning their trust and cooperation would
have been impossible if he refused to ingest peyote,
he said.
“It never would have happened if I hadn’t done that.
It’s one of the ways they take the measure of a man,”
said Halpern, a psychiatrist at the Harvard-affiliated
McLean Hospital in Belmont, just outside of Boston.
A 1994 federal law allows roughly 300,000 members of
the Native American Church to use peyote as a
religious sacrament, but Halpern set out to find
scientific proof for the Navajos’ belief that the
substance is not hazardous to their health.
After five years of research, Halpern and other McLean
researchers did not find any evidence of brain damage
or psychological problems in church members who
frequently use peyote, which contains the hallucinogen
mescaline.
In fact, they found that members of the Native
American Church performed better on some of the
neuropsychological tests than other Navajos who do not
regularly use peyote.
Church members believe peyote offers them spiritual
and physical healing, but Halpern and his colleagues
could not say with any certainty that its
pharmacological effects are responsible for their test
results.
“It’s hard to know how much of it is the sense of
community they get (from the religion) and how much of
it is the actual experience of using the medication
itself,” said Harrison Pope, the study’s senior author
and director of McLean’s biological psychology
laboratory.
Test results for 61 church members who have used
peyote at least 100 times were compared against those
for 79 Navajos who do not regularly use peyote and 36
tribe members with a history of alcohol abuse but
minimal peyote use. Those who had abused alcohol fared
worse on the tests than the church members, according
to the study.
The researchers argue that their findings should offer
“reassurance” to the 10,000 Native American Church
members serving in the military who were barred from
using peyote before new guidelines were adopted in
1997.
“We find no evidence that a history of peyote use
would compromise the psychological or cognitive
abilities of these individuals,” they wrote in a paper
published in the Nov. 4 issue of Biological
Psychiatry.
The researchers are quick to note that their study
draws a clear distinction between illicit and
religious use of peyote. And they did not rule out the
possibility that other hallucinogens, such as LSD, may
be harmful.
“In comparison to LSD, mescaline is described as more
sensual and perceptual and less altering of thought
and sense of self,” they wrote, adding that peyote
does not seem to produce “flashbacks” the same way
that LSD apparently does.
However, the researchers are optimistic that their
findings could open the door to another area of
research: testing the theory that peyote could be an
effective treatment for alcoholism.
“It’s an anecdote you hear from the Navajo themselves
but something that has never been formally tested in
any fashion,” Pope said.
Halpern settled on members of the Native American
Church as ideal subjects for his research because they
have had little or no exposure to other drugs. But he
met with stiff resistance when he first visited the
Navajo reservation in Arizona, New Mexico and Utah.
“These are very proud peoples, and many of them are
smarting over the stigmatizing cliche about (American
Indians’) substance abuse,” he said. “It’s a real
problem, but it’s a real problem in many communities.”
Halpern found an ally on the reservation in Victor
Clyde, who was a vice president of the Native American
Church of Navajoland. Clyde persuaded skeptical church
members to cooperate with Halpern.
“A lot of members did not want to allow him to do the
research,” said Clyde, a justice of the peace in
Chinle, Ariz. “No one wants to be put under the
microscope like that.”
The project was funded in part by the National
Institute on Drug Abuse, which is part of the U.S.
Department of Health and Human Services. A NIDA
spokeswoman would not comment on the study.
Lester Grinspoon, a Harvard Medical School psychiatry
professor who was not involved in Halpern’s research,
said the study lends scientific weight to a long-held
belief that peyote is not harmful.
“The thing that excites me most about the paper is
that the study was actually done,” he said. “The U.S.
government — and NIDA, in particular — has been
rather balky about allowing studies of psychedelic
drugs of any kind.”
——
On the Net:
McLean Hospital: http://www.mclean.harvard.edu
— Henk <knehnav@xs4all.nl> wrote:
The picture is taken near the town of  Real de
Catorce, San Luis
Potosi, overlooking the plane, where Peyote grows.
I don’t know about that  retreat.
Henk
.Lee Albert wrote:
Hi Henk,
Thanks for the photo show.
Where exactly was that village located shown near
the end? It looked
like a very well ordered set of bungalows and
plant patches etc Very
tranquil. Like a place to visit and experience.
BTW have you heard of a retreat that takes place
over 4 days where one
goes into the mountains and drinks a liter of
peyote only during that
time?
For those interested I have posted more info on
the Bwiti Cures in the
South of France at:
www.my-eboga.com/guidedsessions.html
<http://www.my-eboga.com/guidedsessions.html>
Lee
Henk <knehnav@xs4all.nl> wrote:
   A bit off-topic, but…
   Enjoy watching entheogens.
http://www.xs4all.nl/~knehnav/entheogens-zip.html
   Henk
   —
   —
   Om Shanti, Jai Mataji, Jai Gangama.
   Lost and Free Enterprises
   http://www.xs4all.nl/~knehnav
   http://www.geocities.com/knehnav55/
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Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of
eboga / ibogaine over
a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga
Healing Process:
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html
<http://www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html>.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical
guidance and spiritual
interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a
mailing list for
those already initiated:
www.my-eboga.com/network.html
<http://www.my-eboga.com/network.html>.
Om Shanti, Jai Mataji, Jai Gangama.
Lost and Free Enterprises
http://www.xs4all.nl/~knehnav
http://www.geocities.com/knehnav55/
Best regards,
Carol
_______________________________
Never Accept Only Two Choices in Life.
The problems of Today cannot be solved by the same thinking that created them.
-Al Einstein.
__________________________________
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com
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From: Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] To: Day & Sara & Ron & Matt & Brenda & Kirk
Date: November 6, 2005 at 11:51:14 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Nicely put, but Global Warming?? Girl, put down the agenda and step away. Other than that, what you wrote is sheer poetry, kudos.
Sara, we all have a need to be validated, don’t think for a second that the absence of back-slaps equates to being ignored, just the opposite. You kicked a nerve that got us thinking and we are digesting it, mulling it over, and will probably forget to post a response due to the rapidly changing subjects. Please don’t interpret that as being ignored, I LOVE your posts and look forward to them, keep ’em coming!
Just an observation, but can we all just stop it with the self-degradation? We have an AMAZING room, full of VERY varied personalities, all coming together to cheer each other on. Just don’t let the thread slip into “Woe is Me”. Look at Brenda, she has made MIRACULOUS changes BEFORE her treatment, shit, she was all needy and demanding, now look at her. She quit drinking BEFORE treatment, she pledged to stop putting her boyfriend through hell, and SHE DID IT!!! This is a woman with conviction and determination, and I hope, jeez, I know, this list had SOMETHING to do with  that. Iboga is not gonna be her way out, she did that alone, and when she confronts her demons that got her there she WILL KNOW that SHE is in control. I am sooo proud of her!
Look at Matt, he iboed, and is a TOTALLY different person. He writes MUCH better, and has a new perspective on life and God.He is still struggling, but has put down the needle and is looking the other way for a change. Thank the list.
Look at Ron, jeez, he became conscious in front of our eyes! A little wake-up call TOTALLY re-arranged his thinking. He speaks clearly and brings new ideas. Thank the list.
Kirk keeps us all laughing, responding. Dr. Laura once said ” If you keep your head above the crowd, you are gonna get hit with the first shoe that’s thrown”. That’s Kirk, the one with the shoe embedded in the back of her head. LMAO!!
You guys keep up the good work, we are not here by accident.
Bee
Day Brown wrote:
sara119@xs4all.nl wrote:
I find my post on this list to be ignored 99% of the times, so I like to
thank you for reacting in an open minded way.
Well, certainly by now, you’ve seen the refutations; but even so, there
is a kind of virtual reality Matrix filtering that presents some posts,
as it sends others into the ozone. We all have the nagging suspicion
that this is not random, but that certain messages that fulfill kharma
get thru, and others fulfill kharma by not getting thru.
At what point do you say there are enough straws on the camel? How many
plants, animals, and bugs do you havta see outside that have moved in
from southern regions to convince you that global warming is going on?
How many examples of Murphy’s law do you havta see before you conclude
that events are being manipulated?
Whatever, its clearly at the point of ambiguity, and that therefore only
a fool would be convinced that he knew precisely what is going on. Since
I dont really know, I know I’m winging it, and cant really get all that
worked up about the success or failure of any effort posting, or doing
anything else. It was a nice day for a drive in country, even if it was
a complete wild goose chase.
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From: brenda brewer <shakti@photon.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Process Work
Date: November 6, 2005 at 11:42:08 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Oh, Aminah Raheem, Ph.D is a diplomat of Process Work.
brenda
On 11/6/05 8:36 AM, “brenda brewer” <shakti@photon.net> wrote:
Process work from http://www.processwork.org/About_PW.htm:
³Process          work is a cross-disciplinary approach to support
individual and collective          change. It developed in the 1970s and
1980s when Dr.          Arnold Mindell , a Jungian analyst in Zurich,
Switzerland, began researching          illness as a meaningful expression
of the unconscious mind. Also known          as process-oriented psychology
(POP) or dreambody work, Process Work offers          new ways of working
with areas of life that are experienced as problematic          or painful.
Physical symptoms, relationship problems, group conflicts          and
social tensions, when approached with curiosity and respect, can lead
to new information that is vital for personal and collective growth. With
its roots in Jungian psychology, Taoism and physics, Process Work believes
that the solution to a problem is contained within the disturbance itself
and provides a practical framework through which individuals, couples,
families and groups can connect with greater awareness and creativity. ³
Like I said earlier, I was introduced to process work after listening to
Aminah dialogue with Rev. Grace Ellen O¹Brien (interfaith minister in the
Kriya Yoga tradition).  I went to the talk because I have had ³experiences²
as a child and more recently earlier this year in meditation (this was
before my Relapse) and I was in the middle of reading Aminah¹s book ³Soul
Lightning² where she talks about wild experiences on her path, many in the
Subud tradition where they transmit an energy to those who want the
initiation the latihan.  While not as intense as what I¹ve read about Iboga,
similar in the insights about things you¹ve carried arounnd with you, full
on visions, sounded like some king of psychedelic healing consciousness
raising experience ­ no substances at all.  There is a Subud center near me
that I¹m going to visit sometime next month.
I found her to be more of a consciousness explorer, like me, rather than the
Kriya Yoga folks.  Although, I love a lot of Kriya yoga, too.  So, I¹m just
an explorer 🙂
Brenda
On 11/6/05 5:30 AM, “Lee Albert” <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
What do you mean by Process work?
Lee
shakti@photon.net wrote:
RE: Process Work
Process Work and the people involved with is very, very cool. About a
month I got to attend an intimate dialogue between Aminah Raheem, Ph.D and
a teacher I am currently studying with. I was totally fascinated with
what she spoke of Process Work and thoroughly enjoyed her book “Soul
Lightning.” I will look more into their perspective on addiction, what
you have written about finding something to take it’s place getting into
that space resonates with me. These current teachers tried to steer me to
12-step groups which I have tremendous resistance to that.
I’m going have fun doing research on Process Work and addiction.
brenda
Shakti
Vocalist/Lyricist
House, Soul, Background vocals
650-906-2543
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From: brenda brewer <shakti@photon.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Process Work
Date: November 6, 2005 at 11:36:40 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Process work from http://www.processwork.org/About_PW.htm:
“Process          work is a cross-disciplinary approach to support individual and collective          change. It developed in the 1970s and 1980s when Dr.          Arnold Mindell , a Jungian analyst in Zurich, Switzerland, began researching          illness as a meaningful expression of the unconscious mind. Also known          as process-oriented psychology (POP) or dreambody work, Process Work offers          new ways of working with areas of life that are experienced as problematic          or painful. Physical symptoms, relationship problems, group conflicts          and social tensions, when approached with curiosity and respect, can lead          to new information that is vital for personal and collective growth. With          its roots in Jungian psychology, Taoism and physics, Process Work believes          that the solution to a problem is contained within the disturbance itself          and provides a practical framework through which individuals, couples,          families and groups can connect with greater awareness and creativity. “
Like I said earlier, I was introduced to process work after listening to Aminah dialogue with Rev. Grace Ellen O’Brien (interfaith minister in the Kriya Yoga tradition).  I went to the talk because I have had “experiences” as a child and more recently earlier this year in meditation (this was before my Relapse) and I was in the middle of reading Aminah’s book “Soul Lightning” where she talks about wild experiences on her path, many in the Subud tradition where they transmit an energy to those who want the initiation the latihan.  While not as intense as what I’ve read about Iboga, similar in the insights about things you’ve carried arounnd with you, full on visions, sounded like some king of psychedelic healing consciousness raising experience – no substances at all.  There is a Subud center near me that I’m going to visit sometime next month.
I found her to be more of a consciousness explorer, like me, rather than the Kriya Yoga folks.  Although, I love a lot of Kriya yoga, too.  So, I’m just an explorer 🙂
Brenda
On 11/6/05 5:30 AM, “Lee Albert” <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> What do you mean by Process work?
> Lee
>
> shakti@photon.net wrote:
> RE: Process Work
>
> Process Work and the people involved with is very, very cool. About a
> month I got to attend an intimate dialogue between Aminah Raheem, Ph.D and
> a teacher I am currently studying with. I was totally fascinated with
> what she spoke of Process Work and thoroughly enjoyed her book “Soul
> Lightning.” I will look more into their perspective on addiction, what
> you have written about finding something to take it’s place getting into
> that space resonates with me. These current teachers tried to steer me to
> 12-step groups which I have tremendous resistance to that.
>
> I’m going have fun doing research on Process Work and addiction.
>
> brenda
From: Carol Ann <saffireskyes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Erasing memories and its potential for addiction treatment
Date: November 6, 2005 at 10:33:49 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Day,
The “magical” practices can be easily attributed to
sophisticated marketing continually under development
via mass hypnotic suggestion, those employed by
hypnotherapists since the discovery and confirmation
of the subconsious mind. This is rather long read and
hopefully, you might find it interesting as few are
exempt unless knowledgable about how it is employed.
************************************************8
Dick Sutphen is a professional hypnotist who makes a
good portion of his  living
training  other  professional  hypnotists…   and
another good portion selling
tapes of his lectures and “subliminal learning” tapes
to help people with  their
problems.  This file is a transcript of a taped
lecture with information he felt
was  important  enough  that  he  asked  for  it to be
as widely disseminated as
possible, at NO CHARGE.  I found it on Illumi-Net in
Decatur GA, and it  hit  me
where I live, so I ask that all who read it pass it
along as widely as possible.
I have broken it up into four parts… please be sure
that all four are printed,
uploaded, etc.  together, so that none of the
information is lost, for it is all
VITAL!
It could mean the return of free thought to this
nation, or the end of it.
                 <>
                     ———————-
                   ParaNet KAPPA:  Illumi-Net
                          Decatur, GA
                        Ron Bonds Sysop
                         404-377-1141
                All Topics; Conspiracy Theories
                    ———————-
                   <>
                    <>
                    <>
      THE BATTLE FOR YOUR MIND, by Dick Sutphen —
22.2 KB
Persuasion & Brainwashing Techniques Being Used On The
Public Today
                      SUMMARY OF CONTENTS
The  Birth  of  Conversion/Brainwashing  in  Christian
Revivalism in 1735.  The
Pavlovian  explanation  of  the  three  brain  phases.
 Born-again   preachers:
Step-by-Step, how they conduct a revival and the
expected physiological results.
The  “voice  roll”  technique  used  by  preachers,
lawyers and hypnotists.  New
trance-inducing churches.  The 6 steps to conversion.
The decognition  process.
Thought-stopping techniques.  The “sell it by zealot”
technique.  True believers
and  mass  movements.   Persuasion  techniques:  “Yes
set,” “Imbedded Commands,”
“Shock and Confusion,” and the “Interspersal
Technique.”  Subliminals.   Vibrato
and  ELF  waves.   Inducing  trance  with  vibrational
sound.  Even professional
observers will be  “possessed”  at  charismatic
gatherings.   The  “only  hope”
technique to attend and not be converted.
Non-detectable Neurophone programming
through the skin.  The medium for mass take-over.
I’m  Dick Sutphen and this tape is a studio-recorded,
expanded version of a talk
I delivered at the World Congress of Professional
Hypnotists Convention  in  Las
Vegas,  Nevada.   Although  the  tape  carries  a
copyright  to protect it from
unlawful duplication for sale  by  other  companies,
in  this  case,  I  invite
individuals  to  make copies and give them to friends
or anyone in a position to
communicate this information.
Although I’ve been interviewed about the subject  on
many  local  and  regional
radio  and  TV talk shows, large-scale mass
communication appears to be blocked,
since it could result in suspicion or investigation of
the very media presenting
it or the sponsors that support the media.  Some
government agencies do not want
this information generally known.  Nor do  the
Born-Again  Christian  movement,
cults, and many human-potential trainings.
Everything  I will relate only exposes the surface of
the problem.  I don’t know
how the misuse of these techniques can be stopped.  I
don’t think it is possible
to legislate against that which often cannot  be
detected;  and  if  those  who
legislate  are using these techniques, there is little
hope of affecting laws to
govern usage.  I do know that the first step to
initiate change is  to  generate
interest.   In  this  case,  that  will probably only
result from an underground
effort.
In talking about this subject, I am talking about my
own business.  I  know  it,
and  I  know  how  effective it can be.  I produce
hypnosis and subliminal tapes
and, in some of my seminars, I use conversion tactics
to assist participants  to
become  independent and self-sufficient.  But, anytime
I use these techniques, I
point out that I am using them, and those attending
have a choice to participate
or not.  They also know what the desired result of
participation will be.
So, to begin, I want to state the most basic of all
facts  about  brainwashing:
IN  THE ENTIRE HISTORY OF MAN, NO ONE HAS EVER BEEN
BRAINWASHED AND REALIZED, OR
BELIEVED, THAT HE HAD BEEN BRAINWASHED.  Those who
have  been  brainwashed  will
usually  passionately  defend their manipulators,
claiming they have simply been
“shown the light” .  .  .  or have been transformed in
miraculous ways.
The Birth of Conversion
CONVERSION  is  a  “nice”  word  for  BRAINWASHING  .
.   .   and any study of
brainwashing has to begin with a study of  Christian
revivalism  in  eighteenth
century  America.   Apparently,  Jonathan  Edwards
accidentally  discovered the
techniques during a religious crusade in 1735 in
Northampton, Massachusetts.  By
inducing guilt and  acute  apprehension  and  by
increasing  the  tension,  the
“sinners” attending his revival meetings would break
down and completely submit.
Technically,  what Edwards was doing was creating
conditions that wipe the brain
slate clean so that the mind accepts new programming.
The problem was that  the
new  input was negative.  He would tell them, “You’re
a sinner!  You’re destined
for hell!”
As a result, one person committed suicide and another
attempted  suicide.   And
the  neighbors of the suicidal converts related that
they, too, were affected so
deeply that, although they had found “eternal
salvation,”  they  were  obsessed
with a diabolical temptation to end their own lives.
Once  a preacher, cult leader, manipulator or
authority figure creates the brain
phase to wipe the brain-slate clean, his subjects are
wide open.  New input,  in
the  form  of  suggestion, can be substituted for
their previous ideas.  Because
Edwards didn’t turn his message positive until the
end  of  the  revival,  many
accepted the negative suggestions and acted, or
desired to act, upon them.
Charles J.  Finney was another Christian revivalist
who used the same techniques
four years later in mass religious conversions in New
York.  The techniques  are
still   being  used  today  by  Christian
revivalists,  cults,  human-potential
trainings, some business rallies, and the United
States Armed Services .   .   .
to name just a few.
Let  me  point  out here that I don’t think most
revivalist preachers realize or
know they are using brainwashing techniques.  Edwards
simply  stumbled  upon  a
technique that really worked, and others copied it and
have continued to copy it
for  over  two  hundred  years.   And  the  more
sophisticated our knowledge and
technology become, the more effective the conversion.
I feel strongly that this
is one of the major reasons for the increasing rise in
Christian fundamentalism,
especially the televised variety, while  most  of  the
orthodox  religions  are
declining.
The Three Brain Phases
The  Christians  may have been the first to
successfully formulate brainwashing,
but we  have  to  look  to  Pavlov,  the  Russian
scientist,  for  a  technical
explanation.   In  the  early  1900s,  his  work with
animals opened the door to
further investigations with humans.  After the
revolution in Russia,  Lenin  was
quick to see the potential of applying Pavlov’s
research to his own ends.
Three   distinct   and  progressive  states  of
transmarginal  inhibition  were
identified by Pavlov.  The first is the EQUIVALENT
phase,  in  which  the  brain
gives  the  same  response  to  both strong and weak
stimuli.  The second is the
PARADOXICAL phase, in which the brain responds more
actively  to  weak  stimuli
than  to  strong.   And  the  third  is  the
ULTRA-PARADOXICAL  phase, in which
conditioned responses and behavior patterns turn from
positive  to  negative  or
from negative to positive.
With  the  progression through each phase, the degree
of conversion becomes more
effective and complete.  The way to achieve conversion
are many and varied,  but
the  usual  first  step in religious or political
brainwashing is to work on the
emotions of an individual or group until they reach an
abnormal level of  anger,
fear, exitement, or nervous tension.
The  progressive  result  of  this  mental  condition
is to impair judgement and
increase  suggestibility.   The  more  this  condition
can  be  maintained   or
intensified,  the  more it compounds.  Once catharsis,
or the first brain phase,
is reached, the  complete  mental  takeover  becomes
easier.   Existing  mental
programming can be replaced with new patterns of
thinking and behavior.
Other  often-used  physiological  weapons  to  modify
normal brain functions are
fasting, radical or  high  sugar  diets,  physical
discomforts,  regulation  of
breathing,  mantra  chanting in meditation, the
disclosure of awesome mysteries,
special  lighting  and  sound  effects,  programmed
response  to  incense,   or
intoxicating drugs.
The  same  results  can  be  obtained  in
contemporary psychiatric treatment by
electric shock treatments and even by purposely
lowering a person’s blood  sugar
level with insulin injections.
Before  I  talk  about exactly how some of the
techniques are applied, I want to
point out that hypnosis and conversion  tactics  are
two  distinctly  different
things–and  that conversion techniques are far more
powerful.  However, the two
are often mixed .  .  .  with powerful results.
How Revivalist Preachers Work
If you’d like to see a revivalist preacher at work,
there are  probably  several
in  your  city.   Go  to  the  church  or  tent early
and sit in the rear, about
three-quarters of the way back.  Most likely
repetitive  music  will  be  played
while  the  people  come in for the service.  A
repetitive beat, ideally ranging
from 45 to 72 beats per minute (a rhythm close to the
beat of the human  heart),
is very hypnotic and can generate an eyes-open altered
state of consciousness in
a  very high percentage of people.  And, once you are
in an alpha state, you are
at least 25 times as suggestible as you would be  in
full  beta  consciousness.
The music is probably the same for every service, or
incorporates the same beat,
and  many  of  the  people will go into an altered
state almost immediately upon
entering the sanctuary.  Subconsciously, they recall
their state  of  mind  from
previous services and respond according to the
post-hypnotic programming.
Watch  the  people waiting for the service to begin.
Many will exhibit external
signs of trance–body relaxation and slightly dilated
eyes.  Often,  they  begin
swaying  back  and  forth  with  their  hands  in the
air while sitting in their
chairs.  Next, the assistant pastor will probably come
out.  He  usually  speaks
with a pretty good “voice roll.”
Voice Roll Technique
A  “voice  roll”  is a patterned, paced style used by
hypnotists when inducing a
trance.  It is also used by many lawyers, several of
whom  are  highly  trained
hypnotists,  when  they  desire  to  entrench a point
firmly in the minds of the
jurors.  A voice roll can sound as if the speaker were
talking to the beat of  a
metronome  or  it  may  sound  as  though  he  were
emphasizing every word in a
monotonous, patterned style.  The words will usually
be delivered at the rate of
45 to 60 beats per minute, maximizing the hypnotic
effect.
Now the assistant pastor begins the “build-up”
process.  He induces  an  altered
state  of  consciousness  and/or  begins  to  generate
the  excitement  and the
expectations of the audience.  Next, a group of young
women in “sweet and  pure”
chiffon  dresses  might  come  out  to  sing a song.
Gospel songs are great for
building excitement and INVOLVEMENT.  In the middle of
the  song,  one  of  the
girls might be “smitten by the spirit” and fall down
or react as if possessed by
the Holy Spirit.  This very effectively increases the
intensity in the room.  At
this  point, hypnosis and conversion tactics are being
mixed.  And the result is
the audience’s attention span is now  totally  focused
upon  the  communication
while the environment becomes more exciting or tense.
Right  about  this  time,  when an eyes-open
mass-induced alpha mental state has
been achieved, they will usually pass the collection
plate or  basket.   In  the
background,  a  45-beat-per-minute  voice roll from
the assistant preacher might
exhort, “Give to God .  .  .  Give to God .  .  .
Give to God .  .  .”  And the
audience does give.  God  may  not  get  the  money,
but  his  already  wealthy
representative will.
Next,  the  fire-and-brimstone  preacher  will  come
out.   He induces fear and
increases the tension by talking about “the devil,”
“going  to  hell,”  or  the
forthcoming Armegeddon.
In  the  last  such  rally  I attended, the preacher
talked about the blood that
would soon be running out of every faucet in the land.
 He  was  also  obsessed
with a “bloody axe of God,” which everyone had seen
hanging above the pulpit the
previous  week.   I  have no doubt that everyone saw
it–the power of suggestion
given to hundreds of people in hypnosis assures that
at least 10 to  25  percent
would see whatever he suggested they see.
In  most revivalist gatherings, “testifying” or
“witnessing” usually follows the
fear-based sermon.  People from the audience come up
on stage and  relate  their
stories.   “I  was  crippled and now I can walk!”  “I
had arthritis and now it’s
gone!”  It is a psychological  manipulation  that
works.   After  listening  to
numerous  case histories of miraculous healings, the
average guy in the audience
with a minor problem is sure he can be healed.  The
room is charged  with  fear,
guilt, intense excitement, and expectations.
Now those who want to be healed are frequently lined
up around the edge  of  the
room, or they are told to come down to the front.  The
preacher might touch them
on  the  head  firmly and scream, “Be healed!”  This
releases the psychic energy
and, for many, catharsis results.  Catharsis is a
purging of repressed emotions.
Individuals might cry, fall down or even go into
spasms.  And  if  catharsis  is
effected,  they  stand a chance of being healed.  In
catharsis (one of the three
brain phases mentioned earlier), the brain-slate is
temporarily wiped clean  and
the new suggestion is accepted.
For  some,  the healing may be permanent.  For many,
it will last four days to a
week, which is,  incidentally,  how  long  a  hypnotic
suggestion  given  to  a
somnambulistic  subject will usually last.  Even if
the healing doesn’t last, if
they come back every week, the power of suggestion may
continually override  the
problem .  .  .  or sometimes, sadly, it can mask a
physical problem which could
prove to be very detrimental to the individule in the
long run.
I’m  not saying that legitimate healings do not take
place.  They do.  Maybe the
individual was ready to let go of the negativity that
caused the problem in  the
first  place;  maybe  it  was  the  work  of  God.
Yet I contend that it can be
explained with existing knowledge of brain/mind
function.
The techniques and staging will vary from church to
church.  Many use  “speaking
in  tongues”  to  generate catharsis in some while the
spectacle creates intense
excitement in the observers.
The use of hypnotic techniques by religions is
sophisticated, and  professionals
are  assuring  that  they  become  even more
effective.  A man in Los Angeles is
designing, building, and reworking a lot of churches
around  the  country.   He
tells  ministers  what  they  need  and  how to use
it.  This man’s track record
indicates that the congregation and the  monetary
income  will  double  if  the
minister  follows  his  instructions.   He  admits
that about 80 percent of his
efforts are in the sound system and lighting.
Powerful sound and the proper use of  lighting  are
of  primary  importance  in
inducing  an altered state of consciousnes–I’ve been
using them for years in my
own seminars.  However, my participants are fully
aware of the process and  what
they can expect as a result of their participation.
Six Conversion Techniques
Cults and human-potential organizations are always
looking for new converts.  To
attain  them, they must also create a brain-phase.
And they often need to do it
within a short space of time–a weekend, or maybe even
a day.  The following are
the six primary techniques used to generate the
conversion.
The meeting or training takes place in an area where
participants  are  cut  off
from  the  outside  world.   This may be any place:  a
private home, a remote or
rural setting, or even a hotel ballroom where the
participants are allowed  only
limited bathroom usage.  In human-potential trainings,
the controllers will give
a  lengthy  talk  about  the  importance  of  “keeping
agreements” in life.  The
participants are told that if they don’t keep
agreements, their life will  never
work.  It’s a good idea to keep agreements, but the
controllers are subverting a
positive  human  value for selfish purposes.  The
participants vow to themselves
and their trainer that they will keep their
agreements.   Anyone  who  does  not
will  be  intimidated  into  agreement  or forced to
leave.  The next step is to
agree to complete training, thus assuring a high
percentage of  conversions  for
the  organizations.   They  will USUALLY have to agree
not to take drugs, smoke,
and sometimes not to eat .  .  .  or they are given
such short meal breaks  that
it  creates  tension.   The  real reason for the
agreements is to alter internal
chemistry, which generates anxiety  and  hopefully
causes  at  least  a  slight
malfunction  of  the  nervous  system,  which  in
turn increases the conversion
potential.
Before the gathering is complete, the agreements will
be used to ensure that the
new converts go out and  find  new  participants.
They  are  intimidated  into
agreeing to do so before they leave.  Since the
importance of keeping agreements
is  so high on their priority list, the converts will
twist the arms of everyone
they know, attempting to talk them into attending a
free  introductory  session
offered at a future date by the organization.  The new
converts are zealots.  In
fact,  the  inside  term  for  merchandising  the
largest  and  most successful
human-potential training is, “sell it by zealot!”
At  least  a  million  people are graduates and a good
percentage have been left
with a mental activation button that assures their
future loyalty and assistance
if the guru figure or organization calls.  Think about
the  potential  political
implications  of  hundreds  of  thousands  of zealots
programmed to campaign for
their guru.
Be wary of an organization of this type that offers
follow-up sessions after the
seminar.  Follow-up sessions might be weekly meetings
or  inexpensive  seminars
given  on  a  regular basis which the organization
will attempt to talk you into
taking–or any regularly scheduled event used to
maintain control.  As the early
Christian  revivalists  found,  long-term  control  is
dependent  upon  a  good
follow-up system.
Alright.   Now,  let’s  look  at  the  second  tip-off
that indicates conversion
tactics are being used.  A schedule  is  maintained
that  causes  physical  and
mental  fatigue.   This  is  primarily  accomplished
by long hours in which the
participants are given no opportunity for relaxation
or reflection.
The third tip-off:  techniques used to increase  the
tension  in  the  room  or
environment.
Number  four:   Uncertainty.  I could spend hours
relating various techniques to
increase tension and generate  uncertainty.
Basically,  the  participants  are
concerned  about  being  “put on the spot” or
encountered by the trainers, guilt
feelings are played upon, participants are  tempted
to  verbally  relate  their
innermost secrets to the other participants or forced
to take part in activities
that emphasize removing their masks.  One of the most
successful human-potential
seminars  forces  the  participants  to  stand on a
stage in front of the entire
audience while being verbally attacked by the
trainers.  A public opinion  poll,
conducted  a few years ago, showed that the number one
most-fearful situation an
individual could encounter is to speak to an audience.
It ranked  above  window
washing  outside  the  85th floor of an office
building.  So you can imagine the
fear and tension this situation generates within the
participants.  Many  faint,
but most cope with the stress by mentally going away.
They literally go into an
alpha  state,  which  automatically makes them many
times as suggestible as they
normally are.  And another loop  of  the  downward
spiral  into  conversion  is
successfully effected.
The  fifth  clue  that  conversion tactics are being
used is the introduction of
jargon–new terms that have meaning only  to  the
“insiders”  who  participate.
Vicious  language  is  also  frequently  used,
purposely,  to make participants
uncomfortable.
The final tip-off is that there is no humor in the
communications .   .   .   at
least  until  the  participants are converted.  Then,
merry-making and humor are
highly desirable as symbols of the new  joy  the
participants  have  supposedly
“found.”
I’m  not saying that good does not result from
participation in such gatherings.
It can and does.  But I contend it is important for
people  to  know  what  has
happened  and  to  be  aware that continual
involvement may not be in their best
interest.
Over the years, I’ve conducted professional  seminars
to  teach  people  to  be
hypnotists,  trainers,  and  counselors.   I’ve  had
many  of those who conduct
trainings and rallies come to me and say, “I’m here
because I know that what I’m
doing works, but I don’t know why.”  After showing
them how and why,  many  have
gotten  out  of  the business or have decided to
approach it differently or in a
much more loving and supportive manner.
Many of these trainers have become personal friends,
and it  scares  us  all  to
have  experienced  the  power of one person with a
microphone and a room full of
people.  Add a little charisma and  you  can  count
on  a  high  percentage  of
conversions.   The  sad  truth  is that a high
percentage of people want to give
away their power–they are true “believers”!
Cult gatherings or human-potential trainings are an
ideal environment to observe
first-hand what is technically called  the  “Stockholm
Syndrome.”   This  is  a
situation  in  which  those  who are intimidated,
controlled, or made to suffer,
begin to love, admire, and even sometimes sexually
desire their  controllers  or
captors.
But  let  me  inject  a  word of warning here:  If you
think you can attend such
gatherings and not be affected, you are probably
wrong.  A  perfect  example  is
the  case  of  a  woman  who  went  to Haiti on a
Guggenheim Fellowship to study
Haitian Voodoo.  In her report, she related how  the
music  eventually  induced
uncontrollable  bodily movement and an altered state
of consciousness.  Although
she understood the process and thought herself above
it, when she began to  feel
herself  become  vulnerable  to  the music, she
attempted to fight it and turned
away.  Anger or resistance almost always  assures
conversion.   A  few  moments
later  she  was  possessed by the music and began
dancing in a trance around the
Voodoo meeting house.   A  brain  phase  had  been
induced  by  the  music  and
excitement,  and  she  awoke  feeling  reborn.   The
only hope of attending such
gatherings without being affected is to be a Buddha
and  allow  no  positive  or
negative emotions to surface.  Few people are capable
of such detachment.
Before  I  go  on,  let’s  go back to the six tip-offs
to conversion.  I want to
mention the United States Government and military boot
camp.  The  Marine  Corps
talks  about  breaking men down before “rebuilding”
them as new men–as marines!
Well, that is exactly what they do, the same way a
cult breaks its  people  down
and  rebuilds  them  as happy flower sellers on your
local street corner.  Every
one of the six conversion techniques are used in  boot
camp.   Considering  the
needs  of the military, I’m not making a judgement as
to whether that is good or
bad.  IT IS A FACT that the men are effectively
brainwashed.   Those  who  won’t
submit must be discharged or spend much of their time
in the brig.
Decognition Process
Once  the  initial  conversion  is  effected, cults,
armed services, and similar
groups cannot have cynicism  among  their  members.
Members  must  respond  to
commands  and  do  as  they  are  told,  otherwise
they  are  dangerous  to the
organizational  control.   This  is  normally
accomplished  as   a   three-step
Decognition Process.
Step  One  is  ALERTNESS REDUCTION:  The controllers
cause the nervous system to
malfunction, making it difficult to distinguish
between  fantasy  and  reality.
This  can  be  accomplished  in  several  ways.  POOR
DIET is one; watch out for
Brownies and Koolaid.  The sugar throws the nervous
system off.  More subtle  is
the  “SPIRITUAL  DIET” used by many cults.  They eat
only vegetables and fruits;
without the grounding of grains, nuts, seeds, dairy
products, fish or  meat,  an
individual  becomes  mentally “spacey.”  INADEQUATE
SLEEP is another primary way
to reduce alertness, especially when combined with
long hours of work or intense
physical activity.  Also, being bombarded with intense
and  unique  experiences
achieves the same result.
Step  Two  is  PROGRAMMED  CONFUSION:   You  are
mentally  assaulted while your
alertness is being reduced as in Step One.  This is
accomplished with  a  deluge
of  new  information,  lectures,  discussion  groups,
encounters  or one-to-one
processing, which usually amounts to the controller
bombarding  the  individual
with  questions.   During  this phase of decognition,
reality and illusion often
merge and perverted logic is likely to be accepted.
Step Three is THOUGHT STOPPING:  Techniques are used
to cause  the  mind  to  go
“flat.”   These  are  altered-state-of-consciousness
techniques  that initially
induce calmness by giving the mind something simple to
deal  with  and  focusing
awareness.   The  continued  use  brings  on a feeling
of elation and eventually
hallucination.  The result is the reduction of thought
and eventually,  if  used
long  enough,  the  cessation  of  all  thought and
withdrawal from everyone and
everything except that which the  controllers  direct.
 The  takeover  is  then
complete.   It  is  important  to be aware that when
members or participants are
instructed to use “thought-stopping” techniques, they
are told  that  they  will
benefit   by   so   doing:    they   will  become
“better  soldiers”  or  “find
enlightenment.”
There are three primary techniques used for  thought
stopping.   The  first  is
MARCHING:   the  thump,  thump, thump beat literally
generates self-hypnosis and
thus great susceptibility to suggestion.
The second thought stopping technique is MEDITATION.
If you spend an hour to an
hour and a half a day in meditation,  after  a  few
weeks,  there  is  a  great
probability  that  you  will  not  return  to full
beta consciousness.  You will
remain in a fixed state of alpha for as long as you
continue to  meditate.   I’m
not  saying this is bad–if you do it yourself.  It
may be very beneficial.  But
it is a fact that you are causing your  mind  to  go
flat.   I’ve  worked  with
meditators  on  an  EEG  machine  and  the results are
conclusive:  the more you
meditate, the flatter your mind becomes until,
eventually and especially if used
to excess  or  in  combination  with  decognition,
all  thought  ceases.   Some
spiritual  groups  see  this  as  nirvana–which  is
bullshit.   It is simply a
predictable physiological result.  And if heaven on
earth  is  non-thinking  and
non-involvement, I really question why we are here.
The  third  thought-stopping  technique  is  CHANTING,
and  often  chanting  in
meditation.  “Speaking in tongues” could also be
included in this category.
All three stopping techniques produce an altered state
of  consciousness.   This
may  be  very  good if YOU are controlling the
process, for you also control the
input.  I personally use at least one self-hypnosis
programming  session  every
day  and  I  know  how beneficial it is for me.  But
you need to know if you use
these techniques to the degree of remaining
continually in alpha that,  although
you’ll be very mellow, you’ll also be more
suggestible.
True Believers & Mass Movements
Before  ending  this  section on conversion, I want to
talk about the people who
are most susceptible to it and about Mass Movements.
I  am  convinced  that  at
least  a  third  of  the  population is what Eric
Hoffer calls “true believers.”
They are joiners and followers .  .  .  people  who
want  to  give  away  their
power.  They look for answers, meaning, and
enlightenment outside themselves.
Hoffer,  who  wrote  THE TRUE BELIEVER, a classic on
mass movements, says, “true
believers are not intent on bolstering and advancing a
cherished self,  but  are
those  craving to be rid of unwanted self.  They are
followers, not because of a
desire for self-advancement, but  because  it  can
satisfy  their  passion  for
self-renunciation!”   Hoffer  also  says  that  true
believers  “are  eternally
incomplete and eternally insecure”!
I know this from my own experience.  In my years of
communicating  concepts  and
conducting  trainings,  I  have  run into them again
and again.  All I can do is
attempt to show them that the only thing to seek is
the True Self within.  Their
personal answers are to be found there and there
alone.  I communicate that  the
basics of spirituality are self-responsibility and
self-actualization.  But most
of  the  true  believers  just tell me that I’m not
spiritual and go looking for
someone who will give them the dogma and structure
they desire.
Never underestimate the potential danger of these
people.  They  can  easily  be
molded into fanatics who will gladly work and die for
their holy cause.  It is a
substitute  for  their  lost faith in themselves and
offers them as a substitute
for individual hope.  The Moral Majority is made  up
of  true  believers.   All
cults  are  composed of true believers.  You’ll find
them in politics, churches,
businesses,  and  social  cause  groups.   They  are
the  fanatics   in   these
organizations.
Mass  Movements  will  usually have a charismatic
leader.  The followers want to
convert others to their way of living or impose a new
way of life–if necessary,
by legislating laws forcing others to their view, as
evidenced by the activities
of the Moral Majority.  This means enforcement by guns
or punishment,  for  that
is the bottomline in law enforcement.
A common hatred, enemy, or devil is essential to the
success of a mass movement.
The  Born-Again  Christians  have  Satan himself, but
that isn’t enough–they’ve
added the occult, the New Age thinkers and, lately,
all those who  oppose  their
integration  of  church and politics, as evidenced in
their political reelection
campaigns against those who oppose their views.  In
revolutions,  the  devil  is
usually the ruling power or aristocracy.  Some
human-potential movements are far
too  clever to ask their graduates to join anything,
thus labeling themselves as
a cult–but, if you look closely, you’ll find that
their  devil  is  anyone  and
everyone who hasn’t taken their training.
There  are  mass  movements  without devils but they
seldom attain major status.
The True Believers are mentally unbalanced or insecure
people, or those  without
hope  or friends.  People don’t look for allies when
they love, but they do when
they hate or become obsessed with a cause.  And those
who desire a new life  and
a  new  order  feel  the old ways must be eliminated
before the new order can be
built.
Persuasion Techniques
Persuasion isn’t technically brainwashing but it  is
the  manipulation  of  the
human mind by another individual, without the
manipulated party being aware what
caused his opinion shift.  I only have time to very
basically introduce you to a
few  of the thousands of techniques in use today, but
the basis of persuasion is
always to access your RIGHT BRAIN.  The left half of
your  brain  is  analytical
and  rational.   The  right  side  is  creative and
imaginative.  That is overly
simplified but it makes my point.  So, the idea is to
distract  the  left  brain
and  keep  it busy.  Ideally, the persuader generates
an eyes-open altered state
of consciousness, causing you to shift from beta
awareness into alpha; this  can
be measured on an EEG machine.
First,  let  me  give you an example of distracting
the left brain.  Politicians
use these powerful techniques all the time;  lawyers
use many variations  which,
I’ve been told, they call “tightening the noose.”
Assume for a moment that you are watching a politician
give a speech.  First, he
might generate what is called a “YES SET.”  These are
statements that will cause
listeners  to  agree;  they might even unknowingly nod
their heads in agreement.
Next come the TRUISMS.  These are usually facts that
could be debated but,  once
the politician has his audience agreeing, the odds are
in the politician’s favor
that  the audience won’t stop to think for themselves,
thus continuing to agree.
Last comes the SUGGESTION.  This is what the
politician wants  you  to  do  and,
since  you  have  been  agreeing all along, you could
be persuaded to accept the
suggestion.  Now, if you’ll listen closely to my
political speech,  you’ll  find
that  the first three are the “yes set,” the next
three are truisms and the last
is the suggestion.
“Ladies and gentlemen:  are you angry about high food
prices?  Are you tired  of
astronomical  gas  prices?  Are you sick of
out-of-control inflation?  Well, you
know the Other Party allowed 18 percent inflation last
year; you know crime  has
increased  50  percent  nationwide  in  the  last  12
months, and you know your
paycheck hardly covers your expenses any more.  Well,
the  answer  to  resolving
these problems is to elect me, John Jones, to the U.S.
Senate.”
And I think you’ve heard all that before.  But you
might also watch for what are
called  Imbedded Commands.  As an example:  On key
words, the speaker would make
a gesture with his left hand, which research has shown
is  more  apt  to  access
your right brain.  Today’s media-oriented politicians
and spellbinders are often
carefully  trained  by a whole new breed of specialist
who are using every trick
in the book–both old and new–to manipulate you into
accepting their candidate.
The concepts and techniques of Neuro-Linguistics are
so heavily protected that I
found out the hard way that to even talk about them
publicly or in print results
in threatened legal action.  Yet Neuro-Linguistic
training is readily  available
to  anyone willing to devote the time and pay the
price.  It is some of the most
subtle and powerful manipulation I have yet been
exposed to.  A good friend  who
recently  attended  a  two-week  seminar on
Neuro-Linguistics found that many of
those she talked to during the breaks were government
people.
Another technique that I’m just learning about is
unbelievably slippery;  it  is
called an INTERSPERSAL TECHNIQUE and the idea is to
say one thing with words but
plant  a subconscious impression of something else in
the minds of the listeners
and/or watchers.
Let me give you an example:  Assume you are watching
a  television  commentator
make the following statement:  SENATOR JOHNSON is
assisting local authorities to
clear  up  the  stupid  mistakes  of companies
contributing to the nuclear waste
problems.”  It sounds like a statement of fact, but,
if the  speaker  emphasizes
the  right  word, and especially if he makes the
proper hand gestures on the key
words, you could be left with the subconscious
impression that  Senator  Johnson
is stupid.  That was the subliminal goal of the
statement and the speaker cannot
be called to account for anything.
Persuasion techniques are also frequently used on a
much smaller scale with just
as  much  effectiveness.  The insurance salesman knows
his pitch is likely to be
much more effective if he can get you to visualize
something in your mind.  This
is right-brain communication.  For instance, he might
pause in his conversation,
look slowly around your livingroom and say, “Can you
just imagine this beautiful
home burning to the ground?”  Of course you can!  It
is one of your  unconscious
fears  and,  when  he  forces  you  to  visualize  it,
you are more likely to be
manipulated into signing his insurance policy.
The Hare Krishnas, operating in  every  airport,  use
what  I  call  SHOCK  AND
CONFUSION  techniques  to  distract the left brain and
communicate directly with
the right brain.  While waiting for a plane, I once
watched one operate for over
an hour.  He had a technique of almost jumping in
front of someone.   Initially,
his  voice  was  loud  then  dropped  as  he  made
his pitch to take a book and
contribute  money  to  the  cause.   Usually,  when
people  are  shocked,  they
immediately withdraw.  In this case they were shocked
by the strange appearance,
sudden  materialization  and  loud  voice of the Hare
Krishna devotee.  In other
words, the people went into an alpha state for
security because they didn’t want
to confront the reality before them.  In alpha, they
were highly suggestible  so
they  responded  to  the suggestion of taking the
book; the moment they took the
book, they felt guilty and responded to the second
suggestion:  give money.   We
are  all  conditioned  that  if someone gives us
something, we have to give them
something in return–in that case, it was money.
While watching this hustler, I
was close enough to notice that many of  the  people
he  stopped  exhibited  an
outward sign of alpha–their eyes were actually
dilated.
Subliminal Programming
Subliminals  are hidden suggestions that only your
subconscious perceives.  They
can be audio, hidden behind music, or visual,
airbrushed into a picture, flashed
on  a  screen  so  fast  that  you  don’t  consciously
see  them,  or  cleverly
incorporated into a picture or design.
Most audio subliminal reprogramming tapes offer verbal
suggestions recorded at a
low  volume.   I question the efficacy of this
technique–if subliminals are not
perceptible, they cannot  be  effective,  and
subliminals  recorded  below  the
audible  threshold are therefore useless.  The oldest
audio subliminal technique
uses a voice that follows the volume of the music so
subliminals are  impossible
to  detect  without a parametric equalizer.  But this
technique is patented and,
when I wanted to develop my own line of subliminal
audiocassettes,  negotiations
with the patent holder proved to be unsatisfactory.
My attorney obtained copies
of  the  patents which I gave to some talented
Hollywood sound engineers, asking
them to create a new technique.  They found a way to
psycho-acoustically  modify
and  synthesize the suggestions so that they are
projected in the same chord and
frequency as the music, thus giving them the effect of
being part of the  music.
But  we  found  that  in using this technique, there
is no way to reduce various
frequencies to detect the subliminals.  In other
words, although the suggestions
are being heard by the subconscious mind, they cannot
be monitored with even the
most sophisticated equipment.
If we were able to come up with this technique as
easily as we did, I  can  only
imagine  how  sophisticated the technology has become,
with unlimited government
or advertising funding.  And  I  shudder  to  think
about  the  propaganda  and
commercial  manipulation  that  we  are  exposed  to
on a daily basis.  There is
simply no way to know what is behind  the  music  you
hear.   It  may  even  be
possible to hide a second voice behind the voice to
which you are listening.
The  series  by  Wilson  Bryan  Key,  Ph.D.,  on
subliminals in advertising and
political campaigns well documents the misuse in many
areas, especially  printed
advertising in newspapers, magazines, and posters.
The  big question about subliminals is:  do they work?
And I guarantee you they
do.  Not only from the response of those who have used
my tapes,  but  from  the
results  of  such  programs  as  the  subliminals
behind the music in department
stores.  Supposedly, the only message is instructions
to not  steal:   one  East
Coast  department  store  chain reported a 37 percent
reduction in thefts in the
first nine months of testing.
A 1984 article in the technical newsletter,
“Brain-Mind Bulletin,”  states  that
as  much  as  99  percent  of  our  cognitive
activity  may be “non-conscious,”
according to the director of the Laboratory for
Cognitive  Psychophysiology  at
the  University of Illinois.  The lengthy report ends
with the statement, “these
findings support the use of subliminal approaches such
as taped suggestions  for
weight   loss   and   the  therapeutic  use  of
hypnosis  and  Neuro-Linguistic
Programming.”
Mass Misuse
I could relate many stories that support subliminal
programming, but I’d  rather
use my time to make you aware of even more subtle uses
of such programming.
I  have personally experienced sitting in a Los
Angeles auditorium with over ten
thousand people who were gathered to listen to  a
current  charismatic  figure.
Twenty minutes after entering the auditorium, I became
aware that I was going in
and  out of an altered state.  Those accompanying me
experienced the same thing.
Since it is our business, we were aware of what was
happening, but those  around
us   were  not.   By  careful  observation,  what
appeared  to  be  spontaneous
demonstrations were, in fact, artful manipulations.
The only way I could figure
that the eyes-open trance had been induced was that a
6-  to  7-cycle-per-second
vibration  was being piped into the room behind the
air conditioner sound.  That
particular vibration generates alpha, which would
render  the  audience  highly
susceptible.  Ten to 25 percent of the population is
capable of a somnambulistic
level  of  altered states of consciousness; for these
people, the suggestions of
the speaker, if non-threatening, could potentially be
accepted as “commands.”
Vibrato
This leads to the mention of VIBRATO.  Vibrato is the
tremulous effect  imparted
in some vocal or instrumental music, and the
cyle-per-second range causes people
to go into an altered state of consciousness.  At one
period of English history,
singers  whose  voices  contained pronounced vibrato
were not allowed to perform
publicly because listeners would go into an altered
state  and  have  fantasies,
often sexual in nature.
People  who  attend  opera  or  enjoy  listening to
singers like Mario Lanza are
familiar with this altered state induced by the
performers.
ELFs
Now, let’s carry this awareness a little farther.
There are also inaudible ELFs
(extra-low frequency waves).  These are
electromagnetic in nature.  One  of  the
primary  uses  of  ELFs  is  to  communicate  with our
submarines.  Dr.  Andrija
Puharich, a highly respected researcher, in an attempt
to warn  U.S.   officials
about Russian use of ELFs, set up an experiment.
Volunteers were wired so their
brain  waves could be measured on an EEG.  They were
sealed in a metal room that
could not be penetrated by a normal signal.
Puharich then beamed ELF waves at the volunteers.
ELFs  go  right  through  the
earth  and, of course, right through metal walls.
Those inside couldn’t know if
the signal was or was not being sent.  And Puharich
watched the reactions on the
technical equipment:  30 percent of those inside the
room were taken over by the
ELF signal in six to ten seconds.
When I say “taken over,”  I  mean  that  their
behavior  followed  the  changes
anticipated at very precise frequencies.  Waves below
6 cycles per second caused
the  subjects  to  become  very  emotionally  upset,
and  even disrupted bodily
functions.  At 8.2 cycles, they felt very high .  .  .
an elevated feeling,  as
though  they  had  been in masterful meditation,
learned over a period of years.
Eleven to 11.3 cycles induced waves of depressed
agitation  leading  to  riotous
behavior.
The Neurophone
Dr.   Patrick  Flanagan  is a personal friend of mine.
In the early 1960s, as a
teenager, Pat was listed as one of the top scientists
in  the  world  by  “Life”
magazine.   Among  his many inventions was a device he
called the Neurophone–an
electronic  instrument  that  can  successfully
programm  suggestions  directly
through  contact  with  the  skin.   When he attempted
to patent the device, the
government demanded that he prove it worked.  When he
did, the National Security
Agency confiscated the neurophone.  It took Pat two
years of legal battle to get
his invention back.
In using the device, you don’t hear or see a thing; it
is applied to  the  skin,
which  Pat  claims  is  the  source  of  special
senses.  The skin contains more
sensors for heat, touch, pain, vibration, and
electrical fields than  any  other
part of the human anatomy.
In  one of his recent tests, Pat conducted two
identical seminars for a military
audience–one seminar one night and one the next
night, because the size of  the
room  was  not  large  enough  to accommodate all of
them at one time.  When the
first group proved to be very cool and unwilling to
respond, Patrick  spent  the
next  day  making  a  special  tape  to  play  at  the
second seminar.  The tape
instructed the audience to be extremely warm and
responsive and for their  hands
to  become  “tingly.”   The  tape  was  played through
the neurophone, which was
connected to a wire he placed along the ceiling of
the  room.   There  were  no
speakers,  so  no  sound  could  be  heard,  yet  the
message  was successfully
transmitted from that wire directly into the brains of
the audience.  They  were
warm  and  receptive,  their  hands  tingled  and
they  responded, according to
programming, in other ways that I cannot mention here.
The more we find out about how human beings work
through today’s highly advanced
technological research, the more we learn to control
human  beings.   And  what
probably scares me the most is that the medium for
takeover is already in place!
The  television set in your livingroom and bedroom is
doing a lot more than just
entertaining you.
Before I continue, let me point out something else
about  an  altered  state  of
consciousness.   When  you  go  into  an  altered
state, you transfer into right
brain, which results  in  the  internal  release  of
the  body’s  own  opiates:
enkephalins and Beta-endorphins, chemically almost
identical to opium.  In other
words, it feels good .  .  .  and you want to come
back for more.
Recent  tests  by  researcher  Herbert  Krugman
showed that, while viewers were
watching TV, right-brain activity outnumbered
left-brain activity by a ratio  of
two  to  one.  Put more simply, the viewers were in an
altered state .  .  .  in
trance more often than not.  They were getting their
Beta-endorphin “fix.”
To measure attention spans, psychophysiologist Thomas
Mulholland of the Veterans
Hospital in Bedford, Massachusetts, attached young
viewers  to  an  EEG  machine
that  was wired to shut the TV set off whenever the
children’s brains produced a
majority of alpha waves.  Although the children were
told to concentrate, only a
few could keep the set on for more than 30 seconds!
Most viewers are already hypnotized.  To deepen the
trance is easy.  One  simple
way  is  to place a blank, black frame every 32 frames
in the film that is being
projected.  This creates a 45-beat-per-minute
pulsation perceived  only  by  the
subconscious mind–the ideal pace to generate deep
hypnosis.
The commercials or suggestions presented following
this alpha-inducing broadcast
are  much  more likely to be accepted by the viewer.
The high percentage of the
viewing audience that has somnambulistic-depth ability
could  very  well  accept
the suggestions as commands–as long as those commands
did not ask the viewer to
do something contrary to his morals, religion, or
self-preservation.
The medium for takeover is here.  By the age of 16,
children have  spent  10,000
to  15,000  hours  watching  television–that  is
more  time than they spend in
school!  In the average home, the TV set is on for six
hours and 44 minutes  per
day–an increase of nine minutes from last year and
three times the average rate
of increase during the 1970s.
It  obviously  isn’t  getting  better  .   .   .   we
are rapidly moving into an
alpha-level  world–very  possibly  the  Orwellian
world   of   “1984”–placid,
glassy-eyed, and responding obediently to
instructions.
A research project by Jacob Jacoby, a Purdue
University psychologist, found that
of  2,700  people tested, 90 percent misunderstood
even such simple viewing fare
as commercials and “Barnaby Jones.”  Only minutes
after  watching,  the  typical
viewer  missed  23 to 36 percent of the questions
about what he or she had seen.
Of course they did–they were going in and out of
trance!  If you go into a deep
trance, you must be instructed to remember–otherwise
you automatically forget.
I have just touched  the  tip  of  the  iceberg.
When  you  start  to  combine
subliminal  messages  behind  the  music,  subliminal
visuals  projected on the
screen, hypnotically produced visual  effects,
sustained  musical  beats  at  a
trance-inducing  pace .  .  .  you have extremely
effective brainwashing.  Every
hour that you spend watching the TV set you become
more  conditioned.   And,  in
case  you  thought  there  was  a  law against any of
these things, guess again.
There isn’t!  There are a lot of powerful people  who
obviously  prefer  things
exactly the way they are.  Maybe they have plans for?
Best regards,
— Day Brown <daybrown@artelco.com> wrote:
slowone@hush.ai wrote:
I think this has been endemic as far back as there
has been a
society. One current manifestation is the U.S.
presence in Iraq,
which has only a fantasy relationship to 9/11.
On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 13:04:50 -0800 Day Brown
<daybrown@artelco.com>
wrote:
At the rate of progression, its a moot point
whether the political
and economic system wont be hit with some kind of
mass hysteria.
The consistent decline in scholastic test scores for
decades on, and
the general sense that the quality of academic
degrees has been watered
down, supports the notion that it is a progression.
Then too, there is
Wallace, in his anthro classic “Culture and
Personality” who reports
that when people feel a culture is headed down the
tubes, they engage in
what he called “magical thinking” [and coined]. Thus
the demonstrable
rise in Christian fundamentalism, and a president
who operates out of
his conviction rather than his facts.
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Best regards,
Carol
_______________________________
Never Accept Only Two Choices in Life.
The problems of Today cannot be solved by the same thinking that created them.
-Al Einstein.
__________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! – Make it your home page!
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
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From: Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Erasing memories and its potential for addiction treatment
Date: November 6, 2005 at 10:30:29 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Gee, maybe we could reinstall Clinton and bring some REAL integrity back to the White House….
Carol Ann wrote:
Well, I will make it no secret, hopefully it will come
to exactly that…..a “conviction” and removal from
office. 🙂
— Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz> wrote:
]. Thus the demonstrable
rise in Christian fundamentalism, and a president
who operates out of
his conviction rather than his facts.
Conviction huh? Gee, I’ve never heard anyone call it
that before!!!
;o)
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Best regards,
Carol
_______________________________
Never Accept Only Two Choices in Life.
The problems of Today cannot be solved by the same thinking that created them.
-Al Einstein.
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail – PC Magazine Editors’ Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
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From: Carol Ann <saffireskyes@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Altering Conciousness
Date: November 6, 2005 at 10:23:18 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
PS.  Any mind altering “trip”, whether taken on drugs
or not WILL without doubt, inevitably dredge up
hidden, suppressed sludge.  What needs immediate
attention will surface to be addressed.  Looking at
the Dark Side  can be halacious. It was. The process
is done daily for those who subsequently attune to
their spiritual side with an Open Heart, the cause of
which is not necessarily attributable to or for which
any drug can be exclusively accountable or
responsible.
— Carol Ann <saffireskyes@yahoo.com> wrote:
“She took each of us onto the floor and spinned us
around as part of the ceremony. It was mind
altering.”
Lee
“you will understand what the space between cells
feels like, because you will be that space.
cheers”
~k
The above can be accomplished with deep breathing
exercises and yoga practices.   For example, Tantra
tandem rythmic breathing with an experienced
practicioner, someone familiar with QiQong or Energy
will accomplish the what Kersten & Lee describe
….it
is if each cell in the body breaks apart and
becomes
as an individual atom speeding through space. The
mind
becomes the observer of the disintergrated cellular
structure.
My partner got scared and abruptly ended the session
because he had “control” issues (a trip so far into
the unknown was he thought perilous – so I can now
understand how a sitter would have been wise)
Additionally, he did not have an OPEN HEART which I
believe in hindsight is absoluely necessary to take
such a trip……..with or without drugs.
What Lee describes can be accomplished by simply
walking in concentric circles and focusing.
— Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz> wrote:
Spinning the chakras clear, keeping them spinning
perhaps?  What did we know
as kids huh ;o)
 _____
From: Lee Albert [mailto:myeboga@yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: Monday, 7 November 2005 2:26 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Altering Conciousness
When I was in South Africa I attended a witch
doctor
healing ceremony in a
hut in a village in the Transkei. She took each of
us onto the floor and
spinned us around as part of the ceremony. It was
mind altering.
Lee
booker w <swbooker@hotmail.com> wrote:
Hi.  I just read the “Natural Mind” by Andrew
Weil,
and I liked his
propositions very much.  He claims that having a
drive to alter conciousness
is as innate in humans as hunger or sex. An
illustration would be kids
spinning around (which I certainly did.)
Unfortunately we’ve lost our rituals to alter
conciousness in safe and
respectful ways, in our white western society.
But
of course we still
pursue the drive.   He also claims, which I’ve
heard
over and over in some
progressive psychologies such as Process Work,
that
an addict needs the
“state” that they get to thru the drug and the
only
real answer is to find
alternative and perhaps less harmful ways to
achieve
the state.  For me,
opiates seem to allow me to let go of judging both
myself and the world so
harshly.  Anyway,  I found the book very
interesting
and hopefully one day
drugs will not be so demonized as we do in our
profoundly ignorant way these
days.
Best, Sandy
 _____
From:  Carol Ann <saffireskyes@yahoo.com>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] Nick
Date:  Sat, 5 Nov 2005 12:01:53 -0800 (PST)
If I’ve noted anything it is that there is a
common
“thread” among these different discussions
regarding
the use and benefits of Ibo, Salvia, mushrooms,
etc.
Comments are often directed, observations are
noted
about the various degrees of a drugs ability to
get
one “High”.  Levels are often associated with the
amount and quality of the “spiritual” connection.
My
initial thought is that this is still in keeping
with
the established “pattern” of addiction.
It could be said that one obsessive, compulsive
behavior or dependence tendency is being replaced
with
another. Those who were  spiritually negligent,
or
in
deficit before using Ibo,etc. subsequently seek
to
gain insight into a fundamental and mysterious
element
of basic human nature…enlightenment, sound
judgment
or lack thereof, a more diversified balanced, non
abusive reality. The substitution is a drug.
— Sara Glatt <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:
Dear matt,
you already know what you need to know and
there
is
no prove that there
is anything more then what you know and what
there
is, wishing that
“if more people realized it is possible to use
that
energy of th whole for
healing happines etc we would be better off
===u
dont think?”
will only create more lies “the way to
happiness”…
“the best way to
heal”…
“I’m more healed then you are…”
the real truth and the less real truth, who
has
“the script”?
Sara
Hi Nick
u wrote
I mean, what do you actually need to know
about
the universe to be in this
world – very little!
to be in this world very little….to be
happy
in
this world– alot
i think that it is very important to know
that
the
universe is infinite
expanding multi dimensional full of light
and
=== message truncated ===
Best regards,
Carol
_______________________________
Never Accept Only Two Choices in Life.
The problems of Today cannot be solved by the same thinking that created them.
-Al Einstein.
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail – PC Magazine Editors’ Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
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From: Carol Ann <saffireskyes@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Erasing memories and its potential for addiction treatment
Date: November 6, 2005 at 10:08:32 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Well, I will make it no secret, hopefully it will come
to exactly that…..a “conviction” and removal from
office. 🙂
— Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz> wrote:
]. Thus the demonstrable
rise in Christian fundamentalism, and a president
who operates out of
his conviction rather than his facts.
Conviction huh? Gee, I’ve never heard anyone call it
that before!!!
;o)
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Best regards,
Carol
_______________________________
Never Accept Only Two Choices in Life.
The problems of Today cannot be solved by the same thinking that created them.
-Al Einstein.
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail – PC Magazine Editors’ Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
 /]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: Carol Ann <saffireskyes@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Altering Conciousness
Date: November 6, 2005 at 10:00:43 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
“She took each of us onto the floor and spinned us
around as part of the ceremony. It was mind altering.”
Lee
“you will understand what the space between cells
feels like, because you will be that space.
cheers”
~k
The above can be accomplished with deep breathing
exercises and yoga practices.   For example, Tantra
tandem rythmic breathing with an experienced
practicioner, someone familiar with QiQong or Energy
will accomplish the what Kersten & Lee describe ….it
is if each cell in the body breaks apart and  becomes
as an individual atom speeding through space. The mind
becomes the observer of the disintergrated cellular
structure.
My partner got scared and abruptly ended the session
because he had “control” issues (a trip so far into
the unknown was he thought perilous – so I can now
understand how a sitter would have been wise)
Additionally, he did not have an OPEN HEART which I
believe in hindsight is absoluely necessary to take
such a trip……..with or without drugs.
What Lee describes can be accomplished by simply
walking in concentric circles and focusing.
— Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz> wrote:
Spinning the chakras clear, keeping them spinning
perhaps?  What did we know
as kids huh ;o)
 _____
From: Lee Albert [mailto:myeboga@yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: Monday, 7 November 2005 2:26 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Altering Conciousness
When I was in South Africa I attended a witch doctor
healing ceremony in a
hut in a village in the Transkei. She took each of
us onto the floor and
spinned us around as part of the ceremony. It was
mind altering.
Lee
booker w <swbooker@hotmail.com> wrote:
Hi.  I just read the “Natural Mind” by Andrew Weil,
and I liked his
propositions very much.  He claims that having a
drive to alter conciousness
is as innate in humans as hunger or sex. An
illustration would be kids
spinning around (which I certainly did.)
Unfortunately we’ve lost our rituals to alter
conciousness in safe and
respectful ways, in our white western society.  But
of course we still
pursue the drive.   He also claims, which I’ve heard
over and over in some
progressive psychologies such as Process Work, that
an addict needs the
“state” that they get to thru the drug and the only
real answer is to find
alternative and perhaps less harmful ways to achieve
the state.  For me,
opiates seem to allow me to let go of judging both
myself and the world so
harshly.  Anyway,  I found the book very interesting
and hopefully one day
drugs will not be so demonized as we do in our
profoundly ignorant way these
days.
Best, Sandy
 _____
From:  Carol Ann <saffireskyes@yahoo.com>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] Nick
Date:  Sat, 5 Nov 2005 12:01:53 -0800 (PST)
If I’ve noted anything it is that there is a common
“thread” among these different discussions
regarding
the use and benefits of Ibo, Salvia, mushrooms,
etc.
Comments are often directed, observations are noted
about the various degrees of a drugs ability to get
one “High”.  Levels are often associated with the
amount and quality of the “spiritual” connection.
My
initial thought is that this is still in keeping
with
the established “pattern” of addiction.
It could be said that one obsessive, compulsive
behavior or dependence tendency is being replaced
with
another. Those who were  spiritually negligent, or
in
deficit before using Ibo,etc. subsequently seek to
gain insight into a fundamental and mysterious
element
of basic human nature…enlightenment, sound
judgment
or lack thereof, a more diversified balanced, non
abusive reality. The substitution is a drug.
— Sara Glatt <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:
Dear matt,
you already know what you need to know and there
is
no prove that there
is anything more then what you know and what
there
is, wishing that
“if more people realized it is possible to use
that
energy of th whole for
healing happines etc we would be better off
===u
dont think?”
will only create more lies “the way to
happiness”…
“the best way to
heal”…
“I’m more healed then you are…”
the real truth and the less real truth, who has
“the script”?
Sara
Hi Nick
u wrote
I mean, what do you actually need to know
about
the universe to be in this
world – very little!
to be in this world very little….to be happy
in
this world– alot
i think that it is very important to know that
the
universe is infinite
expanding multi dimensional full of light and
love
i think it has tremendous impact on how we
create
our personal reality
for example—knowing that a simple good
thought
has so many benefits is
trully mindblowing
if more people realized it is possible to use
that energy of th whole for
healing happines etc we would be better off
===u
dont think?
love
matt
Open your e-mail without having to worry
about
viruses with  MSN Premium:
 Join now and get the first two months FREE*
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Best regards,
Carol
_______________________________
Never Accept Only Two Choices in Life.
The problems of Today cannot be solved by the same
thinking that created
them.
-Al Einstein.
=== message truncated ===
Best regards,
Carol
_______________________________
Never Accept Only Two Choices in Life.
The problems of Today cannot be solved by the same thinking that created them.
-Al Einstein.
__________________________________
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com
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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Altering Conciousness
Date: November 6, 2005 at 9:20:02 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Spinning the chakras clear, keeping them spinning perhaps?  What did we know as kids huh ;o)
From: Lee Albert [mailto:myeboga@yahoo.co.uk] 
Sent: Monday, 7 November 2005 2:26 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Altering Conciousness
When I was in South Africa I attended a witch doctor healing ceremony in a hut in a village in the Transkei. She took each of us onto the floor and spinned us around as part of the ceremony. It was mind altering.
Lee

booker w <swbooker@hotmail.com> wrote:
Hi.  I just read the “Natural Mind” by Andrew Weil, and I liked his propositions very much.  He claims that having a drive to alter conciousness is as innate in humans as hunger or sex. An illustration would be kids spinning around (which I certainly did.)
Unfortunately we’ve lost our rituals to alter conciousness in safe and respectful ways, in our white western society.  But of course we still pursue the drive.   He also claims, which I’ve heard over and over in some progressive psychologies such as Process Work, that an addict needs the “state” that they get to thru the drug and the only real answer is to find alternative and perhaps less harmful ways to achieve the state.  For me, opiates seem to allow me to let go of judging both myself and the world so harshly.  Anyway,  I found the book very interesting and hopefully one day drugs will not be so demonized as we do in our profoundly ignorant way these days.
Best, Sandy
From:  Carol Ann <saffireskyes@yahoo.com>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] Nick
Date:  Sat, 5 Nov 2005 12:01:53 -0800 (PST)
>If I’ve noted anything it is that there is a common
>”thread” among these different discussions regarding
>the use and benefits of Ibo, Salvia, mushrooms, etc.
>
>Comments are often directed, observations are noted
>about the various degrees of a drugs ability to get
>one “High”.  Levels are often associated with the
>amount and quality of the “spiritual” connection.  My
>initial thought is that this is still in keeping with
>the established “pattern” of addiction.
>
>It could be said that one obsessive, compulsive
>behavior or dependence tendency is being replaced with
>another. Those who were  spiritually negligent, or in
>deficit before using Ibo,etc. subsequently seek to
>gain insight into a fundamental and mysterious element
>of basic human nature…enlightenment, sound judgment
>or lack thereof, a more diversified balanced, non
>abusive reality. The substitution is a drug.
>
>
>— Sara Glatt <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>
> > >Dear matt,
> >
> > you already know what you need to know and there is
> > no prove that there
> > is anything more then what you know and what there
> > is, wishing that
> >
> > “if more people realized it is possible to use that
> > energy of th whole for
> > > healing happines etc we would be better off ===u
> > dont think?”
> >
> > will only create more lies “the way to happiness”…
> > “the best way to
> > heal”…
> > “I’m more healed then you are…”
> > the real truth and the less real truth, who has
> > “the script”?
> > Sara
> >
> >
> >
> > > Hi Nick
> > > u wrote
> > > I mean, what do you actually need to know about
> > the universe to be in this
> > > world – very little!
> > > to be in this world very little….to be happy in
> > this world– alot
> > > i think that it is very important to know that the
> > universe is infinite
> > > expanding multi dimensional full of light and love
> > > i think it has tremendous impact on how we create
> > our personal reality
> > > for example—knowing that a simple good thought
> > has so many benefits is
> > > trully mindblowing
> > >  if more people realized it is possible to use
> > that energy of th whole for
> > > healing happines etc we would be better off ===u
> > dont think?
> > > love
> > > matt
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >  Open your e-mail without having to worry about
> > viruses with  MSN Premium:
> > >   Join now and get the first two months FREE*
> > >
> >
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
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> > > http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> > >
> >
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
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> > http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> >
> >
>\]=———————————————————————=[/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>Best regards,
>Carol
>
>_______________________________
>Never Accept Only Two Choices in Life.
>The problems of Today cannot be solved by the same thinking that created them.
>-Al Einstein.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>__________________________________
>Yahoo! Mail – PC Magazine Editors’ Choice 2005
>http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>   /]=———————————————————————=[\
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>
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Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: [Ibogaine] RE: offlist
Date: November 6, 2005 at 9:20:24 AM EST
To: “Ibogaine Mindvox” <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
It’s the African way! That’s about as good attempt at explanation as I can make! People ARE different in how they carry their issues around and deal with them. Africans are different to Westerners are different to Chinese are different to Indians. I think in Africa they like the sledgehammer approach. It makes sense to them. In Eastern spiritual culture the ego is bad, bad, bad. Western society more works with the ego. We’re more busy in the world. There are differences. I don’t totally know how Africa fits into the whole East-West dynamic but they do admire strength and this seems to be reflected in their ritual activities and music. You see African women dance, it’s not so subtle! With Brazilian women it’s the same energy but it’s more stylized. In India much more subtle. In China more still. I guess it’s just the way different cultures approach the same issues.
Maybe safety is more of an issue for Westerners too. I’m not sure.
Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: matthew zielinski [mailto:mattzielinski@hotmail.com]
Sent: 06 November 2005 09:28
To: nick227@tiscali.co.uk
Subject: offlist
Hi Nick
How would u explain the massive dose of ibo they take in Africa>? if what u and Lee say is true wouldnt they change their dosage <>?
love
matt
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From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Erasing memories and its potential for addiction      treatment
Date: November 6, 2005 at 9:12:04 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
There are many ways. What matters (I am sure you would agree) is to chose one that works for you and to respect the ways that others chose. Different paths presumeably have different ways…..
Re: healing and eboga. It has been my experience that the healing of a traumatic experience requires a (positive) change in oneself. It is not that one heals regardless of your way to be in this world. It is that, to heal, one has to also change. Which makes sense as the traumatic effect most likely has created negative behaviour patterns. Eboga expects you to clean those up before it heals you in my experience.
The path of healing with eboga is one of learning & changing imo and it is hard work.
Philosophically healing with eboga can be dismissed I suppose but in practise i have found it has helped me personally a great deal. To be able to make love to someone and experience that closeness without mental or emotional confusion is a goal I consider well worth achieving.
Small steps take one a long way.
Lee
sara119@xs4all.nl wrote:
> Lee Albert wrote:
>> Which is why the memories one sees with eboga are for real. They come
>> imo via the spirit.
>> But, beware of the future!
> Anyone who has read history has to be wary. Of course, by the time
> you’ve read as much history as I have, you dont have that much future
> left to worry about.
>
> As for the reality of memory- whatever else it is, it is a pattern in
> the mind; eboga or any other drug can change the patterns. I have no
> opinion on to what extent, if any, the spirit is involved. If it works
> for you, that’s all it hasta do. There’s no need to convince me that
> it worked for you, or that it would for me.
>
>
it looks likes a total chaos, what patterns? from earth to earth that is
all that is sure a pattern recycling of the material, that will not
change. the change is due to an insight,a person who experiences “the love
of the spirit” during an experience, “healing” what ever you like to name
it… will NOT change from being an selfish asshole power tripper to a
loving kindness tripper…
who shows respect and valiue to other peoples realities, it is all a trip
but some can make their trip easier by not holding on to a lot of nonsense
but letting that go without the need to express it in public before
regrets.
last session with a person few weeks back, we took together a dose and
spend all night talking and listening to eachother memories, we couldn’t
understand what’s the point was of holding on to all that info. from years
back, why it come up during the session and how do we relate to that info.
right now. we came up with… it is a “chaos” and with our intelligence
find the middle way, (the balance within each day), which is easier to
find when there is no one else to blame “it”on(the addiction, the pain,
the lust,the happiness).
>
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>
>
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Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Altering Conciousness
Date: November 6, 2005 at 9:07:44 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Personally, I think the drive to alter consciousness reflects a desire for more awareness. I don’t believe humans have an innate need to alter their conscious perspective. I don’t believe it’s fundamental to them. There’s just this craving for greater awareness, to go into the unconscious mind. This is what’s behind it and so the act of altering your perspective, whether though ritual, drug use, or whatever, can become genetically associated with pleasure.
Nick
 —–Original Message—–
From: booker w [mailto:swbooker@hotmail.com]
Sent: 05 November 2005 21:43
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Altering Conciousness
Hi.  I just read the “Natural Mind” by Andrew Weil, and I liked his propositions very much.  He claims that having a drive to alter conciousness is as innate in humans as hunger or sex. An illustration would be kids spinning around (which I certainly did.)
Unfortunately we’ve lost our rituals to alter conciousness in safe and respectful ways, in our white western society.  But of course we still pursue the drive.   He also claims, which I’ve heard over and over in some progressive psychologies such as Process Work, that an addict needs the “state” that they get to thru the drug and the only real answer is to find alternative and perhaps less harmful ways to achieve the state.  For me, opiates seem to allow me to let go of judging both myself and the world so harshly.  Anyway,  I found the book very interesting and hopefully one day drugs will not be so demonized as we do in our profoundly ignorant way these days.
Best, Sandy
From:  Carol Ann <saffireskyes@yahoo.com>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] Nick
Date:  Sat, 5 Nov 2005 12:01:53 -0800 (PST)
>If I’ve noted anything it is that there is a common
>”thread” among these different discussions regarding
>the use and benefits of Ibo, Salvia, mushrooms, etc.
>
>Comments are often directed, observations are noted
>about the various degrees of a drugs ability to get
>one “High”.  Levels are often associated with the
>amount and quality of the “spiritual” connection.  My
>initial thought is that this is still in keeping with
>the established “pattern” of addiction.
>
>It could be said that one obsessive, compulsive
>behavior or dependence tendency is being replaced with
>another. Those who were  spiritually negligent, or in
>deficit before using Ibo,etc. subsequently seek to
>gain insight into a fundamental and mysterious element
>of basic human nature…enlightenment, sound judgment
>or lack thereof, a more diversified balanced, non
>abusive reality. The substitution is a drug.
>
>
>— Sara Glatt <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>
> > >Dear matt,
> >
> > you already know what you need to know and there is
> > no prove that there
> > is anything more then what you know and what there
> > is, wishing that
> >
> > “if more people realized it is possible to use that
> > energy of th whole for
> > > healing happines etc we would be better off ===u
> > dont think?”
> >
> > will only create more lies “the way to happiness”…
> > “the best way to
> > heal”…
> > “I’m more healed then you are…”
> > the real truth and the less real truth, who has
> > “the script”?
> > Sara
> >
> >
> >
> > > Hi Nick
> > > u wrote
> > > I mean, what do you actually need to know about
> > the universe to be in this
> > > world – very little!
> > > to be in this world very little….to be happy in
> > this world– alot
> > > i think that it is very important to know that the
> > universe is infinite
> > > expanding multi dimensional full of light and love
> > > i think it has tremendous impact on how we create
> > our personal reality
> > > for example—knowing that a simple good thought
> > has so many benefits is
> > > trully mindblowing
> > >  if more people realized it is possible to use
> > that energy of th whole for
> > > healing happines etc we would be better off ===u
> > dont think?
> > > love
> > > matt
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >  Open your e-mail without having to worry about
> > viruses with  MSN Premium:
> > >   Join now and get the first two months FREE*
> > >
> >
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
> > >  [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> > > http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> > >
> >
>\]=———————————————————————=[/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
> >  [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> > http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> >
> >
>\]=———————————————————————=[/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>Best regards,
>Carol
>
>_______________________________
>Never Accept Only Two Choices in Life.
>The problems of Today cannot be solved by the same thinking that created them.
>-Al Einstein.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>__________________________________
>Yahoo! Mail – PC Magazine Editors’ Choice 2005
>http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>   /]=———————————————————————=[\
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>   \]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>
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From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Altering Conciousness
Date: November 6, 2005 at 8:30:07 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
What do you mean by Process work?
Lee
shakti@photon.net wrote:
RE: Process Work
Process Work and the people involved with is very, very cool. About a
month I got to attend an intimate dialogue between Aminah Raheem, Ph.D and
a teacher I am currently studying with. I was totally fascinated with
what she spoke of Process Work and thoroughly enjoyed her book “Soul
Lightning.” I will look more into their perspective on addiction, what
you have written about finding something to take it’s place getting into
that space resonates with me. These current teachers tried to steer me to
12-step groups which I have tremendous resistance to that.
I’m going have fun doing research on Process Work and addiction.
brenda
>
> Hi. I just read the “Natural Mind” by Andrew Weil, and I liked his
> propositions very much. He claims that having a drive to alter
> conciousness is as innate in humans as hunger or sex. An illustration
> would be kids spinning around (which I certainly did.)
> Unfortunately we’ve lost our rituals to alter conciousness in safe and
> respectful ways, in our white western society. But of course we still
> pursue the drive. He also claims, which I’ve heard over and over in some
> progressive psychologies such as Process Work, that an addict needs the
> “state” that they get to thru the drug and the only real answer is to find
> alternative and perhaps less harmful ways to achieve the state. For me,
> opiates seem to allow me to let go of judging both myself and the world so
> harshly. Anyway, I found the book very interesting and hopefully one day
> drugs will not be so demonized as we do in our profoundly ignorant way
> these days.
> Best, Sandy
>
> From: Carol Ann
> Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Nick
> Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 12:01:53 -0800 (PST)
>>If I’ve noted anything it is that there is a common
>>”thread” among these different discussions regarding
>>the use and benefits of Ibo, Salvia, mushrooms, etc.
>>
>>Comments are often directed, observations are noted
>>about the various degrees of a drugs ability to get
>>one “High”. Levels are often associated with the
>>amount and quality of the “spiritual” connection. My
>>initial thought is that this is still in keeping with
>>the established “pattern” of addiction.
>>
>>It could be said that one obsessive, compulsive
>>behavior or dependence tendency is being replaced with
>>another. Those who were spiritually negligent, or in
>>deficit before using Ibo,etc. subsequently seek to
>>gain insight into a fundamental and mysterious element
>>of basic human nature…enlightenment, sound judgment
>>or lack thereof, a more diversified balanced, non
>>abusive reality. The substitution is a drug.
>>
>>
>>— Sara Glatt wrote:
>>
>> > >Dear matt,
>> >
>> > you already know what you need to know and there is
>> > no prove that there
>> > is anything more then what you know and what there
>> > is, wishing that
>> >
>> > “if more people realized it is possible to use that
>> > energy of th whole for
>> > > healing happines etc we would be better off ===u
>> > dont think?”
>> >
>> > will only create more lies “the way to happiness”…
>> > “the best way to
>> > heal”…
>> > “I’m more healed then you are…”
>> > the real truth and the less real truth, who has
>> > “the script”?
>> > Sara
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > > Hi Nick
>> > > u wrote
>> > > I mean, what do you actually need to know about
>> > the universe to be in this
>> > > world – very little!
>> > > to be in this world very little….to be happy in
>> > this world– alot
>> > > i think that it is very important to know that the
>> > universe is infinite
>> > > expanding multi dimensional full of light and love
>> > > i think it has tremendous impact on how we create
>> > our personal reality
>> > > for example—knowing that a simple good thought
>> > has so many benefits is
>> > > trully mindblowing
>> > > if more people realized it is possible to use
>> > that energy of th whole for
>> > > healing happines etc we would be better off ===u
>> > dont think?
>> > > love
>> > > matt
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Open your e-mail without having to worry about
>> > viruses with MSN Premium:
>> > > Join now and get the first two months FREE*
>> > >
>> >
>>/]=———————————————————————=[\
>> > > [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>> > > http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>> > >
>> >
>>\]=———————————————————————=[/
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>/]=———————————————————————=[\
>> > [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>> > http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>> >
>> >
>>\]=———————————————————————=[/
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>Best regards,
>>Carol
>>
>>_______________________________
>>Never Accept Only Two Choices in Life.
>>The problems of Today cannot be solved by the same thinking that created
>> them.
>>-Al Einstein.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>__________________________________
>>Yahoo! Mail – PC Magazine Editors’ Choice 2005
>>http://mail.yahoo.com
>>
>>
>> /]=———————————————————————=[\
>> [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>> http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>> \]=———————————————————————=[/
>>
>>
> /]=———————————————————————=[\
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> http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
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Nationwide internet access, thousands of dial-up numbers!
Web hosting, multimedia broadcasting, e-commerce, and more.
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Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Altering Conciousness
Date: November 6, 2005 at 8:26:23 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
When I was in South Africa I attended a witch doctor healing ceremony in a hut in a village in the Transkei. She took each of us onto the floor and spinned us around as part of the ceremony. It was mind altering.
Lee
booker w <swbooker@hotmail.com> wrote:
Hi.  I just read the “Natural Mind” by Andrew Weil, and I liked his propositions very much.  He claims that having a drive to alter conciousness is as innate in humans as hunger or sex. An illustration would be kids spinning around (which I certainly did.)
Unfortunately we’ve lost our rituals to alter conciousness in safe and respectful ways, in our white western society.  But of course we still pursue the drive.   He also claims, which I’ve heard over and over in some progressive psychologies such as Process Work, that an addict needs the “state” that they get to thru the drug and the only real answer is to find alternative and perhaps less harmful ways to achieve the state.  For me, opiates seem to allow me to let go of judging both myself and the world so harshly.  Anyway,  I found the book very interesting and hopefully one day drugs will not be so demonized as we do in our profoundly ignorant way these days.
Best, Sandy
From:  Carol Ann <saffireskyes@yahoo.com>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] Nick
Date:  Sat, 5 Nov 2005 12:01:53 -0800 (PST)
>If I’ve noted anything it is that there is a common
>”thread” among these different discussions regarding
>the use and benefits of Ibo, Salvia, mushrooms, etc.
>
>Comments are often directed, observations are noted
>about the various degrees of a drugs ability to get
>one “High”.  Levels are often associated with the
>amount and quality of the “spiritual” connection.  My
>initial thought is that this is still in keeping with
>the established “pattern” of addiction.
>
>It could be said that one obsessive, compulsive
>behavior or dependence tendency is being replaced with
>another. Those who were  spiritually negligent, or in
>deficit before using Ibo,etc. subsequently seek to
>gain insight into a fundamental and mysterious element
>of basic human nature…enlightenment, sound judgment
>or lack thereof, a more diversified balanced, non
>abusive reality. The substitution is a drug.
>
>
>— Sara Glatt <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>
> > >Dear matt,
> >
> > you already know what you need to know and there is
> > no prove that there
> > is anything more then what you know and what there
> > is, wishing that
> >
> > “if more people realized it is possible to use that
> > energy of th whole for
> > > healing happines etc we would be better off ===u
> > dont think?”
> >
> > will only create more lies “the way to happiness”…
> > “the best way to
> > heal”…
> > “I’m more healed then you are…”
> > the real truth and the less real truth, who has
> > “the script”?
> > Sara
> >
> >
> >
> > > Hi Nick
> > > u wrote
> > > I mean, what do you actually need to know about
> > the universe to be in this
> > > world – very little!
> > > to be in this world very little….to be happy in
> > this world– alot
> > > i think that it is very important to know that the
> > universe is infinite
> > > expanding multi dimensional full of light and love
> > > i think it has tremendous impact on how we create
> > our personal reality
> > > for example—knowing that a simple good thought
> > has so many benefits is
> > > trully mindblowing
> > >  if more people realized it is possible to use
> > that energy of th whole for
> > > healing happines etc we would be better off ===u
> > dont think?
> > > love
> > > matt
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >  Open your e-mail without having to worry about
> > viruses with  MSN Premium:
> > >   Join now and get the first two months FREE*
> > >
> >
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
> > >  [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> > > http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> > >
> >
>\]=———————————————————————=[/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
> >  [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> > http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> >
> >
>\]=———————————————————————=[/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>Best regards,
>Carol
>
>_______________________________
>Never Accept Only Two Choices in Life.
>The problems of Today cannot be solved by the same thinking that created them.
>-Al Einstein.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>__________________________________
>Yahoo! Mail – PC Magazine Editors’ Choice 2005
>http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>   /]=———————————————————————=[\
>  [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>   \]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Getting High on ibo & Creating a New dependency
Date: November 6, 2005 at 8:23:47 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi carol Ann,
I know that is a dilemma with ibogaine use among those who already have been involved in a chemical dependency. I have never personally been chemically dependent other than to nicotine. So I have wondered myself if the line ever gets crossed in using ibo for healing.
The answer to that is either short or it is long.
The short answer is this. Ibo is the perfect chemical dependent users healing drug imo as it cuts through the “seeking a high” shit and quickly connects you to yourself and healing. All thoughts of getting high soon become irrelevant once this has occured and real healing work can be done.
On a footnote there is an advantage and a need at specific times to using high doses which have profound healing effects and if under the guise of ones addiction one takes a high dose, its benefits are not that it feeds an attempt at a new addiction. Its benefits are that it facilitates a profound healing (appropriate to that moment) which in time will get to the bottom of ones tendency to begin a new addiction.
I guess what I am saying is this. Don’t confuse the word drug (i.e. ibogaine) with the word abuse even if in some way or other people taking it are attempting to abuse it. It has very little abuse potential.
Lee
Carol Ann <saffireskyes@yahoo.com> wrote:
If I’ve noted anything it is that there is a common
“thread” among these different discussions regarding
the use and benefits of Ibo, Salvia, mushrooms, etc.
Comments are often directed, observations are noted
about the various degrees of a drugs ability to get
one “High”. Levels are often associated with the
amount and quality of the “spiritual” connection. My
initial thought is that this is still in keeping with
the established “pattern” of addiction.
It could be said that one obsessive, compulsive
behavior or dependence tendency is being replaced with
another. Those who were spiritually negligent, or in
deficit before using Ibo,etc. subsequently seek to
gain insight into a fundamental and mysterious element
of basic human nature…enlightenment, sound judgment
or lack thereof, a more diversified balanced, non
abusive reality. The substitution is a drug.
— Sara Glatt wrote:
> >Dear matt,
>
> you already know what you need to know and there is
> no prove that there
> is anything more then what you know and what there
> is, wishing that
>
> “if more people realized it is possible to use that
> energy of th whole for
> > healing happines etc we would be better off ===u
> dont think?”
>
> will only create more lies “the way to happiness”…
> “the best way to
> heal”…
> “I’m more healed then you are…”
> the real truth and the less real truth, who has
> “the script”?
> Sara
>
>
>
> > Hi Nick
> > u wrote
> > I mean, what do you actually need to know about
> the universe to be in this
> > world – very little!
> > to be in this world very little….to be happy in
> this world– alot
> > i think that it is very important to know that the
> universe is infinite
> > expanding multi dimensional full of light and love
> > i think it has tremendous impact on how we create
> our personal reality
> > for example—knowing that a simple good thought
> has so many benefits is
> > trully mindblowing
> > if more people realized it is possible to use
> that energy of th whole for
> > healing happines etc we would be better off ===u
> dont think?
> > love
> > matt
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Open your e-mail without having to worry about
> viruses with MSN Premium:
> > Join now and get the first two months FREE*
> >
>
/]=———————————————————————=[\
> > [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> > http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> >
>
\]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>
>
>
>
>
/]=———————————————————————=[\
> [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>
>
\]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>
>
Best regards,
Carol
_______________________________
Never Accept Only Two Choices in Life.
The problems of Today cannot be solved by the same thinking that created them.
-Al Einstein.
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail – PC Magazine Editors’ Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] obtaining ibogaine
Date: November 6, 2005 at 8:04:06 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
in what way do the mushrooms help with the anger/repressed emotions?
Lee
Day Brown <daybrown@artelco.com> wrote:
sara119@xs4all.nl wrote:
>this is how I see it too, and that’s why you can find people becoming
> aggressive to family, to me, having to let out the suppressed emotions,
> this is when mushrooms can help a lot after Iboga.
Come to think on it, while I have seen people freak on LSD and of
course alcohol, I’ve never seen anyone become aggressive or violently
flipped on either Amanita Muscaria or Pscilocybes. what I have seen, is
people withdraw into themselves, I believe in the struggle with their
own daemons rather than letting the daemons make trouble for anyone else.
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
From: Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Erasing memories and its potential for addiction treatment
Date: November 6, 2005 at 2:51:41 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
So are we doomed? Lighten up, girls! You seem to be hell-bent on a scenario of destruction!!
Day Brown wrote:
slowone@hush.ai wrote:
I think this has been endemic as far back as there has been a society. One current manifestation is the U.S. presence in Iraq, which has only a fantasy relationship to 9/11.
On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 13:04:50 -0800 Day Brown <daybrown@artelco.com> wrote:
At the rate of progression, its a moot point whether the political and economic system wont be hit with some kind of mass hysteria.
The consistent decline in scholastic test scores for decades on, and
the general sense that the quality of academic degrees has been watered
down, supports the notion that it is a progression. Then too, there is
Wallace, in his anthro classic “Culture and Personality” who reports
that when people feel a culture is headed down the tubes, they engage in
what he called “magical thinking” [and coined]. Thus the demonstrable
rise in Christian fundamentalism, and a president who operates out of his conviction rather than his facts.
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Erasing memories and its potential for addiction     treatment
Date: November 6, 2005 at 1:15:18 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Thanks people, I appriciate it!
Not by me or anyone who knows what they should be reading 🙂
.:vector:.
— sara119@xs4all.nl wrote:
I find my post on this list to be ignored 99% of the times, so I
like to
__________________________________
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com
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[%]
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 \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: Day Brown <daybrown@artelco.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] obtaining ibogaine
Date: November 6, 2005 at 1:59:44 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Carol Ann wrote:
is a good beginning. Is there anything that is NOT
Karmic.
If a tree falls in the forest that dont hurt anyone? I have 1/2 mile
of logging road thru the woods back to some property. Over the last
30 years, at one time or other, seven trees along the side of the road
died and then fell… across the road. That is to say, the 120 degrees
of the 360 that a tree could fall in, which the road runs thru, was the
vector in which the tree always fell on. Whether it was on the uphill
or downhill side, whether it was on the north, south, east, or west.
OTOH, most of the people you see are soul-less Avatars who dont have
kharma, but only do what they do to present a message to you. Why
you receive one kind of message, and not another is a moot point.
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Erasing memories and its potential for addiction treatment
Date: November 6, 2005 at 1:03:07 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
]. Thus the demonstrable
rise in Christian fundamentalism, and a president who operates out of
his conviction rather than his facts.
Conviction huh? Gee, I’ve never heard anyone call it that before!!!
;o)
 /]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
 \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: Day Brown <daybrown@artelco.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Erasing memories and its potential for addiction treatment
Date: November 6, 2005 at 1:50:34 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
slowone@hush.ai wrote:
I think this has been endemic as far back as there has been a society. One current manifestation is the U.S. presence in Iraq, which has only a fantasy relationship to 9/11.
On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 13:04:50 -0800 Day Brown <daybrown@artelco.com> wrote:
At the rate of progression, its a moot point whether the political and economic system wont be hit with some kind of mass hysteria.
The consistent decline in scholastic test scores for decades on, and
the general sense that the quality of academic degrees has been watered
down, supports the notion that it is a progression. Then too, there is
Wallace, in his anthro classic “Culture and Personality” who reports
that when people feel a culture is headed down the tubes, they engage in
what he called “magical thinking” [and coined]. Thus the demonstrable
rise in Christian fundamentalism, and a president who operates out of his conviction rather than his facts.
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
From: Day Brown <daybrown@artelco.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Erasing memories and its potential for addiction  treatment
Date: November 6, 2005 at 1:39:49 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
sara119@xs4all.nl wrote:
I find my post on this list to be ignored 99% of the times, so I like to
thank you for reacting in an open minded way.
Well, certainly by now, you’ve seen the refutations; but even so, there
is a kind of virtual reality Matrix filtering that presents some posts,
as it sends others into the ozone. We all have the nagging suspicion
that this is not random, but that certain messages that fulfill kharma
get thru, and others fulfill kharma by not getting thru.
At what point do you say there are enough straws on the camel? How many
plants, animals, and bugs do you havta see outside that have moved in
from southern regions to convince you that global warming is going on?
How many examples of Murphy’s law do you havta see before you conclude
that events are being manipulated?
Whatever, its clearly at the point of ambiguity, and that therefore only
a fool would be convinced that he knew precisely what is going on. Since
I dont really know, I know I’m winging it, and cant really get all that
worked up about the success or failure of any effort posting, or doing
anything else. It was a nice day for a drive in country, even if it was
a complete wild goose chase.
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/
From: kiersten johnson <kiers10@mac.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] obtaining ibogaine (Salvia)
Date: November 6, 2005 at 12:02:06 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I would concur. Salvia is a very gentle, even shy spirit. you need to approach it as a sacrament. it is not necessarily “fun.” it is a very very short trip. for me, the way it worked was thus: darkened room, incense, ambient music, keep intruders out. have a sitter. pack the bowl of a bong with a good amount. light it and fill lungs deeply, exhale quickly, inhale a deep lungful again, repeat 3 or 4 times. by the 3rd or 4th time (this is where the sitter is crucially important, because you will probably fall back on your pillows and drop the flaming bong, so make sure your sitter is ready to catch the bong and you), you will be instantly transported into a dimension just below or beside this one. you will become part of the floorboards or the bed, or the grass or the walls. you will understand what it means to be inanimate. you will understand what the space between cells feels like, because you will be that space. you will receive some interesting information about being-as-such, as well as a personal message for you alone. then you will slowly drift  up back into your body and this dimension, with a memory of your trip like dream. write it down quickly or it will drift away.
I tried it once by chewing a large amount of it during a ritual. the ritual was miraculous and beautiful, but I’m not sure if I felt anything from the salvia. I hear that there are other ways of prolonging the trip. If anyone knows, I wouldn’t mind hearing about it.
cheers,
~k
On Nov 4, 2005, at 3:43 PM, Day Brown wrote:
Carol Ann wrote:
Day, et al
Do you (or anyone else)  from experience or otherwise, think that  salvia */divinorum/* <http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&hs=W30&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official_s&q=salvia+divinorum&spell=1>   might be a stepping stone for someone who has never encountered a mind altering reality drug.
I’m informed by someone of Native American blood that it is expensive
and ineffective. Perhaps more useful to someone who already knew how
to meditate, and had an appropriate space to use it in. But whatever
you try, it’d be re-assuring to have a spirit guide present, familiar
with the emotional states that sometimes arise from any entheogen.
The impression I get from personal report and
http://www.sagewisdom.org/faq.html
is that the effect wearing off after only 20 minutes would preclude
the kind of trance state you use entheogens for, sufficing only to
familiarize yourself with some of the eidetic and other sensual
aspects.
Certainly, anyone considering the use of an entheogen should be very
worried- the truths that come out of the experience are often those
which have been suppressed because they are so uncomfortable to think
about. but OTOH, as the Greek “Epoptes”, you become one who eyes have
been opened, and life is much more comfortable.
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From: “edward conn” <wardconn@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] obtaining ibogaine
Date: November 5, 2005 at 11:10:57 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In repsonse to’salvia’:
I used it fairly extensively about four to five years ago, there are effectively different concentrations available, from the raw crumbled leaves (Divinorum) to the 5x extract and 10 -15x extract which are the dried leaves sprayed or infused with salvinora A which is the isolated active ingredient. DM Turner described salvinora A as making “DMT look like a water pistol” and by all accounts I have heard I would agree. Very difficult to get(5 years ago not long before discovered), but the others are relatively easy. Currently illegal in the states there are no restrictions within the UK, anyone can buy this stuff.
For effect, lots of people don’t get anything from it, but for others ..they are let in. Smoking is the preferable method, but some say it is a water herb and should be packed as a ball in the cheek. I could only suggest that a little will do little, especially this way.
I have had many experiences which have been both profound and that have reached into the following days by auspicious events, in some cases energies leaving me, in others events happening to prevent me from getting mysefl into trouble. I have used it to devine and at times it has also talked to me.
Friends have split into a million selves, each one a perfect replica of themself. My first time trying it time froze into a nano block were only what the visible eye could see existed and become a point on a tape, the tape made up one presumes of lots of little nano blocks. Words became the steps on a ladder spanning the frozen moments now fractalising within this nano moment. It was a profound introduction to the nature of salvia and one which relates to it being active at the neuro atomic level of consciousness. Experiences will differ from session to session, voices, laughter etc. behind you, at you etc. are common and part of  McKennas ‘cosmic giggle’ so similarity in that extent can be similar to tryptamines, but the visuals are different , less ‘cyber’.
Two experiences I have heard of with salvinora A were: falling through levele of the cosmos and seeing within them the contents of each level, being clearly different from eachother. The person was scared by this, but if one is familiar with such descriptions from elsewhere, one finds out that such levels have been described in literature through time. Such are we that we include mutiple levels of existence , their correlate external. The other experience was on a Universal level, were the individual found themselves hurtling through Universes as they unfolded around him, not one but many unfolding as he shot through them. This gives credence to the neuro atomic level of consciousness specified for salvinora A. Were universes unfolding have their macro correlate in the atom.
On the other scale I’ve seen many people smoke it and get nothing, when watching some you can see as they ‘fall through’ their faces shift and often look very confused, Salvia can be very immediate like that. But it does only last a few minutes.
It can seem similar to ketamine in that sense.
Theres a good book in which the writer describes smoking while playing cards..at one point as he thougfht about the cards…they did exactly what he thought and became hole falling through the table…this immediate external fulcrum is again significant to salvias high activity level consciously. So in my own experience I saw it to have helped conspire to protect me in this one situation, but of course it was only me really…it only showed me the possibility and connection, at the end of the day it was my brain which did it.
Ed.
From: sara119@xs4all.nl
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] obtaining ibogaine
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 08:53:14 +0100 (CET)
> Carol Ann wrote:
>> Day, et al
>> Do you (or anyone else)  from experience or otherwise, think that
>> salvia */divinorum/*
>> <http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&hs=W30&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official_s&q=salvia+divinorum&spell=1>
>> might be a stepping stone for someone who has never encountered a mind
>> altering reality drug.
> I’m informed by someone of Native American blood that it is expensive
> and ineffective. Perhaps more useful to someone who already knew how
> to meditate, and had an appropriate space to use it in. But whatever
> you try, it’d be re-assuring to have a spirit guide present, familiar
> with the emotional states that sometimes arise from any entheogen.
>
> The impression I get from personal report and
> http://www.sagewisdom.org/faq.html
> is that the effect wearing off after only 20 minutes would preclude
> the kind of trance state you use entheogens for, sufficing only to
> familiarize yourself with some of the eidetic and other sensual
> aspects.
>
> Certainly, anyone considering the use of an entheogen should be very
> worried- the truths that come out of the experience are often those
> which have been suppressed because they are so uncomfortable to think
> about. but OTOH, as the Greek “Epoptes”, you become one who eyes have
> been opened, and life is much more comfortable.
>
> this is how I see it too, and that’s why you can find people becoming
aggressive
to family, to me, having to let out the suppressed emotions,
this is when mushrooms can help a lot after Iboga.
sara
>
>   /]=———————————————————————=[\
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> [%]
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>
>
>
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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Erasing memories and its potential for addiction treatment
Date: November 5, 2005 at 8:09:10 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Thinks Sara should be smiling ear to ear by now!!!!
See sweetie WE LOVE YOUUUUU!!!!
Kirkxxx
—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Sunday, 6 November 2005 1:52 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Erasing memories and its potential for addiction
treatment
Vector wrote in reply to Sara > Not by me or anyone who knows what they
should be reading 🙂
.:vector:.
— sara119@xs4all.nl wrote:
I find my post on this list to be ignored 99% of the times, so I
like to
Ditto I say, in agreement with Vector.
Peace and love,
Preston
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Erasing memories and its potential for addiction treatment
Date: November 5, 2005 at 7:52:13 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Vector wrote in reply to Sara > Not by me or anyone who knows what they should be reading 🙂
.:vector:.
— sara119@xs4all.nl wrote:
>
I find my post on this list to be ignored 99% of the times, so I
like to
Ditto I say, in agreement with Vector.
Peace and love,
Preston
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: shakti@photon.net
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Altering Conciousness
Date: November 5, 2005 at 7:13:04 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Oh yeah, I was just looking at the website.  I lived in Portland for 5
years and go back often 😉
brenda
Hi Brenda.  It just “happened” that Arnold Mindell, the sort of father of
Process Work plopped down in Oregon several years ago so I’ve taken
classes and read his books etc.  I’m very taken by his ideas.  Hope you
find something useful…
Sandy
    From:  shakti@photon.net
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] Altering Conciousness
Date:  Sat, 5 Nov 2005 14:17:53 -0800 (PST)
RE:  Process Work
Process Work and the people involved with is very, very cool.  About a
month I got to attend an intimate dialogue between Aminah Raheem, Ph.D
and
a teacher I am currently studying with.  I was totally fascinated with
what she spoke of Process Work and thoroughly enjoyed her book “Soul
Lightning.”  I will look more into their perspective on addiction, what
you have written about finding something to take it’s place getting into
that space resonates with me.  These current teachers  tried to steer me
to
12-step groups which I have tremendous resistance to that.
I’m going have fun doing research on Process Work and addiction.
brenda
Hi.  I just read the “Natural Mind” by Andrew Weil, and I liked his
propositions very much.  He claims that having a drive to alter
conciousness is as innate in humans as hunger or sex. An illustration
would be kids spinning around (which I certainly did.)
Unfortunately we’ve lost our rituals to alter conciousness in safe and
respectful ways, in our white western society.  But of course we still
pursue the drive.   He also claims, which I’ve heard over and over in
some
progressive psychologies such as Process Work, that an addict needs
the
“state” that they get to thru the drug and the only real answer is to
find
alternative and perhaps less harmful ways to achieve the state.  For
me,
opiates seem to allow me to let go of judging both myself and the
world so
harshly.  Anyway,  I found the book very interesting and hopefully one
day
drugs will not be so demonized as we do in our profoundly ignorant way
these days.
Best, Sandy
    From:  Carol Ann
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] Nick
Date:  Sat, 5 Nov 2005 12:01:53 -0800 (PST)
If I’ve noted anything it is that there is a  common
“thread” among these different discussions regarding
the use and benefits of Ibo, Salvia, mushrooms, etc.
Comments are often directed, observations are noted
about the various degrees of a drugs ability to get
one “High”.  Levels are often associated with the
amount and quality of the “spiritual” connection.  My
initial thought is that this is still in keeping with
the established “pattern” of addiction.
It could be said that one obsessive,  compulsive
behavior or dependence tendency is being replaced with
another. Those who were  spiritually negligent, or in
deficit before using Ibo,etc. subsequently seek to
gain insight into a fundamental and mysterious element
of basic human nature…enlightenment, sound judgment
or lack thereof, a more diversified balanced, non
abusive reality. The substitution is a drug.
— Sara Glatt  wrote:
Dear matt,
you already know what you need to know and there is
no prove that there
is anything more then what you know and what there
is, wishing that
“if more people realized it is possible to use that
energy of th whole for
healing happines etc  we would be better off ===u
dont think?”
will only create more lies “the way to happiness”…
“the best way to
heal”…
“I’m more healed then you are…”
the real truth and the less real truth, who has
“the script”?
Sara
Hi Nick
u wrote
I mean, what do you actually need to know about
the universe to be in this
world – very little!
to be in this world very little….to be happy in
this world– alot
i think that it is very important to know that the
universe is infinite
expanding multi dimensional full of light and love
i think it has tremendous impact on  how we create
our personal reality
for example—knowing that a simple good thought
has so many benefits is
trully mindblowing
if more people realized it is possible to use
that energy of th whole for
healing happines etc we would be better off ===u
dont think?
love
matt
Open your e-mail without having to worry  about
viruses with  MSN Premium:
 Join now and get the first two months FREE*
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Best regards,
Carol
_______________________________
Never Accept Only Two Choices in Life.
The problems of Today cannot be solved by the same thinking that
created
them.
-Al  Einstein.
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail – PC Magazine Editors’ Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
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From: Carol Ann <saffireskyes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Altering Conciousness
Date: November 5, 2005 at 7:08:14 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In all probability, you both know of Gary Zukov’s
works. Forthcoming and succinct.  Simplicity is very
much a part of the Souls process and progression.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00021GM3Q/qid=1131235229/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/102-2192176-2646551?v=glance&s=books
— booker w <swbooker@hotmail.com> wrote:
———————————
Hi Brenda.  It just “happened” that Arnold Mindell,
the sort of father of Process Work plopped down in
Oregon several years ago so I’ve taken classes and
read his books etc.  I’m very taken by his ideas.
Hope you find something useful…
Sandy
———————————
From:  shakti@photon.net
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] Altering Conciousness
Date:  Sat, 5 Nov 2005 14:17:53 -0800 (PST)
RE:  Process Work
Process Work and the people involved with is very,
very cool.  About a
month I got to attend an intimate dialogue between
Aminah Raheem, Ph.D and
a teacher I am currently studying with.  I was
totally fascinated with
what she spoke of Process Work and thoroughly enjoyed
her book “Soul
Lightning.”  I will look more into their perspective
on addiction, what
you have written about finding something to take it’s
place getting into
that space resonates with me.  These current teachers
tried to steer me to
12-step groups which I have tremendous resistance to
that.
I’m going have fun doing research on Process Work and
addiction.
brenda
Hi.  I just read the “Natural Mind” by Andrew
Weil, and I liked his
propositions very much.  He claims that having a
drive to alter
conciousness is as innate in humans as hunger or
sex. An illustration
would be kids spinning around (which I certainly
did.)
Unfortunately we’ve lost our rituals to alter
conciousness in safe and
respectful ways, in our white western society.
But of course we still
pursue the drive.   He also claims, which I’ve
heard over and over in some
progressive psychologies such as Process Work,
that an addict needs the
“state” that they get to thru the drug and the
only real answer is to find
alternative and perhaps less harmful ways to
achieve the state.  For me,
opiates seem to allow me to let go of judging both
myself and the world so
harshly.  Anyway,  I found the book very
interesting and hopefully one day
drugs will not be so demonized as we do in our
profoundly ignorant way
these days.
Best, Sandy
    From:  Carol Ann
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] Nick
Date:  Sat, 5 Nov 2005 12:01:53 -0800 (PST)
If I’ve noted anything it is that there is a
common
“thread” among these different discussions
regarding
the use and benefits of Ibo, Salvia, mushrooms,
etc.
Comments are often directed, observations are
noted
about the various degrees of a drugs ability to
get
one “High”.  Levels are often associated with the
amount and quality of the “spiritual” connection.
My
initial thought is that this is still in keeping
with
the established “pattern” of addiction.
It could be said that one obsessive,  compulsive
behavior or dependence tendency is being replaced
with
another. Those who were  spiritually negligent, or
in
deficit before using Ibo,etc. subsequently seek to
gain insight into a fundamental and mysterious
element
of basic human nature…enlightenment, sound
judgment
or lack thereof, a more diversified balanced, non
abusive reality. The substitution is a drug.
— Sara Glatt  wrote:
Dear matt,
you already know what you need to know and
there is
no prove that there
is anything more then what you know and what
there
is, wishing that
“if more people realized it is possible to use
that
energy of th whole for
healing happines etc  we would be better off
===u
dont think?”
will only create more lies “the way to
happiness”…
“the best way to
heal”…
“I’m more healed then you are…”
the real truth and the less real truth, who has
“the script”?
Sara
Hi Nick
u wrote
I mean, what do you actually need to know
about
the universe to be in this
world – very little!
to be in this world very little….to be
happy in
this world– alot
i think that it is very important to know
that the
universe is infinite
expanding multi dimensional full of light and
love
i think it has tremendous impact on  how we
create
our personal reality
for example—knowing that a simple good
thought
has so many benefits is
trully mindblowing
if more people realized it is possible to
use
that energy of th whole for
healing happines etc we would be better off
===u
dont think?
love
matt
Open your e-mail without having to worry
about
viruses with  MSN Premium:
 Join now and get the first two months FREE*
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
Best regards,
Carol
_______________________________
Never Accept Only Two Choices in Life.
The problems of Today cannot be solved by the same
thinking that created
them.
-Al  Einstein.
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail – PC Magazine Editors’ Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
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———————————————————–
WebMail provided by Photon.Net –
http://www.photon.net/
Nationwide internet access, thousands of dial-up
numbers!
Web hosting, multimedia broadcasting, e-commerce, and
more.
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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Best regards,
Carol
_______________________________
Never Accept Only Two Choices in Life.
The problems of Today cannot be solved by the same thinking that created them.
-Al Einstein.
__________________________________
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com
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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Erasing memories and its potential for addiction           treatment
Date: November 5, 2005 at 7:05:26 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Not by me or anyone who knows what they should be reading 🙂
.:vector:.
— sara119@xs4all.nl wrote:
I find my post on this list to be ignored 99% of the times, so I
like to
__________________________________
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com
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From: “booker w” <swbooker@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Altering Conciousness
Date: November 5, 2005 at 6:53:33 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Brenda.  It just “happened” that Arnold Mindell, the sort of father of Process Work plopped down in Oregon several years ago so I’ve taken classes and read his books etc.  I’m very taken by his ideas.  Hope you find something useful…
Sandy
From:  shakti@photon.net
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] Altering Conciousness
Date:  Sat, 5 Nov 2005 14:17:53 -0800 (PST)
>RE:  Process Work
>
>Process Work and the people involved with is very, very cool.  About a
>month I got to attend an intimate dialogue between Aminah Raheem, Ph.D and
>a teacher I am currently studying with.  I was totally fascinated with
>what she spoke of Process Work and thoroughly enjoyed her book “Soul
>Lightning.”  I will look more into their perspective on addiction, what
>you have written about finding something to take it’s place getting into
>that space resonates with me.  These current teachers tried to steer me to
>12-step groups which I have tremendous resistance to that.
>
>I’m going have fun doing research on Process Work and addiction.
>
>brenda
>
> >
> > Hi.  I just read the “Natural Mind” by Andrew Weil, and I liked his
> > propositions very much.  He claims that having a drive to alter
> > conciousness is as innate in humans as hunger or sex. An illustration
> > would be kids spinning around (which I certainly did.)
> > Unfortunately we’ve lost our rituals to alter conciousness in safe and
> > respectful ways, in our white western society.  But of course we still
> > pursue the drive.   He also claims, which I’ve heard over and over in some
> > progressive psychologies such as Process Work, that an addict needs the
> > “state” that they get to thru the drug and the only real answer is to find
> > alternative and perhaps less harmful ways to achieve the state.  For me,
> > opiates seem to allow me to let go of judging both myself and the world so
> > harshly.  Anyway,  I found the book very interesting and hopefully one day
> > drugs will not be so demonized as we do in our profoundly ignorant way
> > these days.
> > Best, Sandy
> >
> >      From:  Carol Ann
> > Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] Nick
> > Date:  Sat, 5 Nov 2005 12:01:53 -0800 (PST)
> >>If I’ve noted anything it is that there is a common
> >>”thread” among these different discussions regarding
> >>the use and benefits of Ibo, Salvia, mushrooms, etc.
> >>
> >>Comments are often directed, observations are noted
> >>about the various degrees of a drugs ability to get
> >>one “High”.  Levels are often associated with the
> >>amount and quality of the “spiritual” connection.  My
> >>initial thought is that this is still in keeping with
> >>the established “pattern” of addiction.
> >>
> >>It could be said that one obsessive,  compulsive
> >>behavior or dependence tendency is being replaced with
> >>another. Those who were  spiritually negligent, or in
> >>deficit before using Ibo,etc. subsequently seek to
> >>gain insight into a fundamental and mysterious element
> >>of basic human nature…enlightenment, sound judgment
> >>or lack thereof, a more diversified balanced, non
> >>abusive reality. The substitution is a drug.
> >>
> >>
> >>— Sara Glatt  wrote:
> >>
> >> > >Dear matt,
> >> >
> >> > you already know what you need to know and there is
> >> > no prove that there
> >> > is anything more then what you know and what there
> >> > is, wishing that
> >> >
> >> > “if more people realized it is possible to use that
> >> > energy of th whole for
> >> > > healing happines etc  we would be better off ===u
> >> > dont think?”
> >> >
> >> > will only create more lies “the way to happiness”…
> >> > “the best way to
> >> > heal”…
> >> > “I’m more healed then you are…”
> >> > the real truth and the less real truth, who has
> >> > “the script”?
> >> > Sara
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > > Hi Nick
> >> > > u wrote
> >> > > I mean, what do you actually need to know about
> >> > the universe to be in this
> >> > > world – very little!
> >> > > to be in this world very little….to be happy in
> >> > this world– alot
> >> > > i think that it is very important to know that the
> >> > universe is infinite
> >> > > expanding multi dimensional full of light and love
> >> > > i think it has tremendous impact on  how we create
> >> > our personal reality
> >> > > for example—knowing that a simple good thought
> >> > has so many benefits is
> >> > > trully mindblowing
> >> > >  if more people realized it is possible to use
> >> > that energy of th whole for
> >> > > healing happines etc we would be better off ===u
> >> > dont think?
> >> > > love
> >> > > matt
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >  Open your e-mail without having to worry about
> >> > viruses with  MSN Premium:
> >> > >   Join now and get the first two months FREE*
> >> > >
> >> >
> >>/]=———————————————————————=[\
> >> > >  [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> >> >  > http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> >> > >
> >> >
> >>\]=———————————————————————=[/
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>/]=———————————————————————=[\
> >> >  [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> >> > http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> >> >
> >> >
> >>\]=———————————————————————=[/
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>Best regards,
> >>Carol
> >>
> >>_______________________________
> >>Never Accept Only Two Choices in Life.
> >>The problems of Today cannot be solved by the same thinking that created
> >> them.
> >>-Al  Einstein.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>__________________________________
> >>Yahoo! Mail – PC Magazine Editors’ Choice 2005
> >>http://mail.yahoo.com
> >>
> >>
> >>   /]=———————————————————————=[\
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> >> http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> >>   \]=———————————————————————=[/
> >>
> >>
> >       /]=———————————————————————=[\
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> > \]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>
>
>———————————————————–
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From: shakti@photon.net
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Altering Conciousness
Date: November 5, 2005 at 5:17:53 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
RE:  Process Work
Process Work and the people involved with is very, very cool.  About a
month I got to attend an intimate dialogue between Aminah Raheem, Ph.D and
a teacher I am currently studying with.  I was totally fascinated with
what she spoke of Process Work and thoroughly enjoyed her book “Soul
Lightning.”  I will look more into their perspective on addiction, what
you have written about finding something to take it’s place getting into
that space resonates with me.  These current teachers tried to steer me to
12-step groups which I have tremendous resistance to that.
I’m going have fun doing research on Process Work and addiction.
brenda
Hi.  I just read the “Natural Mind” by Andrew Weil, and I liked his
propositions very much.  He claims that having a drive to alter
conciousness is as innate in humans as hunger or sex. An illustration
would be kids spinning around (which I certainly did.)
Unfortunately we’ve lost our rituals to alter conciousness in safe and
respectful ways, in our white western society.  But of course we still
pursue the drive.   He also claims, which I’ve heard over and over in some
progressive psychologies such as Process Work, that an addict needs the
“state” that they get to thru the drug and the only real answer is to find
alternative and perhaps less harmful ways to achieve the state.  For me,
opiates seem to allow me to let go of judging both myself and the world so
harshly.  Anyway,  I found the book very interesting and hopefully one day
drugs will not be so demonized as we do in our profoundly ignorant way
these days.
Best, Sandy
    From:  Carol Ann
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] Nick
Date:  Sat, 5 Nov 2005 12:01:53 -0800 (PST)
If I’ve noted anything it is that there is a common
“thread” among these different discussions regarding
the use and benefits of Ibo, Salvia, mushrooms, etc.
Comments are often directed, observations are noted
about the various degrees of a drugs ability to get
one “High”.  Levels are often associated with the
amount and quality of the “spiritual” connection.  My
initial thought is that this is still in keeping with
the established “pattern” of addiction.
It could be said that one obsessive,  compulsive
behavior or dependence tendency is being replaced with
another. Those who were  spiritually negligent, or in
deficit before using Ibo,etc. subsequently seek to
gain insight into a fundamental and mysterious element
of basic human nature…enlightenment, sound judgment
or lack thereof, a more diversified balanced, non
abusive reality. The substitution is a drug.
— Sara Glatt  wrote:
Dear matt,
you already know what you need to know and there is
no prove that there
is anything more then what you know and what there
is, wishing that
“if more people realized it is possible to use that
energy of th whole for
healing happines etc  we would be better off ===u
dont think?”
will only create more lies “the way to happiness”…
“the best way to
heal”…
“I’m more healed then you are…”
the real truth and the less real truth, who has
“the script”?
Sara
Hi Nick
u wrote
I mean, what do you actually need to know about
the universe to be in this
world – very little!
to be in this world very little….to be happy in
this world– alot
i think that it is very important to know that the
universe is infinite
expanding multi dimensional full of light and love
i think it has tremendous impact on  how we create
our personal reality
for example—knowing that a simple good thought
has so many benefits is
trully mindblowing
if more people realized it is possible to use
that energy of th whole for
healing happines etc we would be better off ===u
dont think?
love
matt
Open your e-mail without having to worry about
viruses with  MSN Premium:
 Join now and get the first two months FREE*
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
Best regards,
Carol
_______________________________
Never Accept Only Two Choices in Life.
The problems of Today cannot be solved by the same thinking that created
them.
-Al  Einstein.
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail – PC Magazine Editors’ Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
 /]=———————————————————————=[\
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Nationwide internet access, thousands of dial-up numbers!
Web hosting, multimedia broadcasting, e-commerce, and more.
 /]=———————————————————————=[\
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 \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: “booker w” <swbooker@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Altering Conciousness
Date: November 5, 2005 at 4:43:10 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi.  I just read the “Natural Mind” by Andrew Weil, and I liked his propositions very much.  He claims that having a drive to alter conciousness is as innate in humans as hunger or sex. An illustration would be kids spinning around (which I certainly did.)
Unfortunately we’ve lost our rituals to alter conciousness in safe and respectful ways, in our white western society.  But of course we still pursue the drive.   He also claims, which I’ve heard over and over in some progressive psychologies such as Process Work, that an addict needs the “state” that they get to thru the drug and the only real answer is to find alternative and perhaps less harmful ways to achieve the state.  For me, opiates seem to allow me to let go of judging both myself and the world so harshly.  Anyway,  I found the book very interesting and hopefully one day drugs will not be so demonized as we do in our profoundly ignorant way these days.
Best, Sandy
From:  Carol Ann <saffireskyes@yahoo.com>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] Nick
Date:  Sat, 5 Nov 2005 12:01:53 -0800 (PST)
>If I’ve noted anything it is that there is a common
>”thread” among these different discussions regarding
>the use and benefits of Ibo, Salvia, mushrooms, etc.
>
>Comments are often directed, observations are noted
>about the various degrees of a drugs ability to get
>one “High”.  Levels are often associated with the
>amount and quality of the “spiritual” connection.  My
>initial thought is that this is still in keeping with
>the established “pattern” of addiction.
>
>It could be said that one obsessive, compulsive
>behavior or dependence tendency is being replaced with
>another. Those who were  spiritually negligent, or in
>deficit before using Ibo,etc. subsequently seek to
>gain insight into a fundamental and mysterious element
>of basic human nature…enlightenment, sound judgment
>or lack thereof, a more diversified balanced, non
>abusive reality. The substitution is a drug.
>
>
>— Sara Glatt <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>
> > >Dear matt,
> >
> > you already know what you need to know and there is
> > no prove that there
> > is anything more then what you know and what there
> > is, wishing that
> >
> > “if more people realized it is possible to use that
> > energy of th whole for
> > > healing happines etc we would be better off ===u
> > dont think?”
> >
> > will only create more lies “the way to happiness”…
> > “the best way to
> > heal”…
> > “I’m more healed then you are…”
> > the real truth and the less real truth, who has
> > “the script”?
> > Sara
> >
> >
> >
> > > Hi Nick
> > > u wrote
> > > I mean, what do you actually need to know about
> > the universe to be in this
> > > world – very little!
> > > to be in this world very little….to be happy in
> > this world– alot
> > > i think that it is very important to know that the
> > universe is infinite
> > > expanding multi dimensional full of light and love
> > > i think it has tremendous impact on how we create
> > our personal reality
> > > for example—knowing that a simple good thought
> > has so many benefits is
> > > trully mindblowing
> > >  if more people realized it is possible to use
> > that energy of th whole for
> > > healing happines etc we would be better off ===u
> > dont think?
> > > love
> > > matt
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >  Open your e-mail without having to worry about
> > viruses with  MSN Premium:
> > >   Join now and get the first two months FREE*
> > >
> >
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
> > >  [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> > > http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> > >
> >
>\]=———————————————————————=[/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
> >  [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> > http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> >
> >
>\]=———————————————————————=[/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>Best regards,
>Carol
>
>_______________________________
>Never Accept Only Two Choices in Life.
>The problems of Today cannot be solved by the same thinking that created them.
>-Al Einstein.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>__________________________________
>Yahoo! Mail – PC Magazine Editors’ Choice 2005
>http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>   /]=———————————————————————=[\
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>   \]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>
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From: Carol Ann <saffireskyes@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Nick
Date: November 5, 2005 at 3:05:32 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Guess what..when all is said and done…the Dali Lama,
any leader, spiritual or otherwise,  when geting up in
the morning, puts on his/her pants, dress, whatever
his attire for the day……the same way your or I do.
— matthew zielinski <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
wrote:
———————————
Hello once again :]
I really dont need people to think or beive what i
do….i trully repsect everbodys differnt views on
faith etc etc because  there is a big deeper reason
for peoples personal belifs…..
.all i was trying to say is that if people would
realize that all this here is not all that is and that
the whole has powrs beyond human comprehension then we
as a hhuman race would evolve much faster and reach
higherplanes of existence in a relative shorter
time…aye >?…do u agree>?
and Sara u are right –to a certain degree ….
no body has the script….
we all have the script …
but when it comes to the whole oness dilema i dont
think the ego has that much of an influence…..i
really dont see anybody who trully belifs in the
concept of oneness to push their belifs on
others……
good example tht imidietly comes to mind…dali
lama…..and fuk i missed him when he was in toronot
last year…damm!!
enjoy ur saturday evrybody….
love
matt
———————————
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Nick
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 18:42:12 -0000
Hi Matt,
Well, I mean, some people are just happy – however the
universe is, however they are, however other people
are.
If you need other people to be like this, or be like
that, or believe this, or believe that, to be happy
yourself, then that’s your ego-orientation and that’s
also cool. I also like people to be a certain way –
open-hearted, practical, and at least a bit sexy –
this is what makes me happy with other people, also
with myself. Different people have different needs, I
guess.
Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: matthew zielinski
[mailto:mattzielinski@hotmail.com]
Sent: 05 November 2005 18:15
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Nick
Hi Nick
u wrote
I mean, what do you actually need to know about the
universe to be in this world – very little!
to be in this world very little….to be happy in this
world– alot
i think that it is very important to know that the
universe is infinite expanding multi dimensional full
of light and love
i think it has tremendous impact on how we create our
personal reality
for example—knowing that a simple good thought has
so many benefits is trully mindblowing
if more people realized it is possible to use that
energy of th whole for healing happines etc we would
be better off ===u dont think?
love
matt
———————————
Open your e-mail without having to worry about viruses
with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two
months FREE*
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Best regards,
Carol
_______________________________
Never Accept Only Two Choices in Life.
The problems of Today cannot be solved by the same thinking that created them.
-Al Einstein.
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail – PC Magazine Editors’ Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
 /]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: Carol Ann <saffireskyes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Nick
Date: November 5, 2005 at 3:01:53 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
If I’ve noted anything it is that there is a common
“thread” among these different discussions regarding
the use and benefits of Ibo, Salvia, mushrooms, etc.
Comments are often directed, observations are noted
about the various degrees of a drugs ability to get
one “High”.  Levels are often associated with the
amount and quality of the “spiritual” connection.  My
initial thought is that this is still in keeping with
the established “pattern” of addiction.
It could be said that one obsessive, compulsive
behavior or dependence tendency is being replaced with
another. Those who were  spiritually negligent, or in
deficit before using Ibo,etc. subsequently seek to
gain insight into a fundamental and mysterious element
of basic human nature…enlightenment, sound judgment
or lack thereof, a more diversified balanced, non
abusive reality. The substitution is a drug.
— Sara Glatt <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:
Dear matt,
you already know what you need to know and there is
no prove that there
is anything more then what you know and what there
is, wishing that
“if more people realized it is possible to use that
energy of th whole for
healing happines etc we would be better off ===u
dont think?”
will only create more lies “the way to happiness”…
“the best way to
heal”…
“I’m more healed then you are…”
the real truth and the less real truth, who has
“the script”?
Sara
Hi Nick
u wrote
I mean, what do you actually need to know about
the universe to be in this
world – very little!
to be in this world very little….to be happy in
this world– alot
i think that it is very important to know that the
universe is infinite
expanding multi dimensional full of light and love
i think it has tremendous impact on how we create
our personal reality
for example—knowing that a simple good thought
has so many benefits is
trully mindblowing
if more people realized it is possible to use
that energy of th whole for
healing happines etc we would be better off ===u
dont think?
love
matt
Open your e-mail without having to worry about
viruses with  MSN Premium:
 Join now and get the first two months FREE*
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
Best regards,
Carol
_______________________________
Never Accept Only Two Choices in Life.
The problems of Today cannot be solved by the same thinking that created them.
-Al Einstein.
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail – PC Magazine Editors’ Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
 /]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
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From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Nick
Date: November 5, 2005 at 2:57:24 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hello once again :]
I really dont need people to think or beive what i do….i trully repsect everbodys differnt views on faith etc etc because  there is a big deeper reason for peoples personal belifs…..
.all i was trying to say is that if people would realize that all this here is not all that is and that the whole has powrs beyond human comprehension then we as a hhuman race would evolve much faster and reach higherplanes of existence in a relative shorter time…aye >?…do u agree>?
and Sara u are right –to a certain degree ….
no body has the script….
we all have the script …
but when it comes to the whole oness dilema i dont think the ego has that much of an influence…..i really dont see anybody who trully belifs in the concept of oneness to push their belifs on others……
good example tht imidietly comes to mind…dali lama…..and fuk i missed him when he was in toronot last year…damm!!
enjoy ur saturday evrybody….
love
matt
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Nick
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 18:42:12 -0000
Hi Matt,
Well, I mean, some people are just happy – however the universe is, however they are, however other people are.
If you need other people to be like this, or be like that, or believe this, or believe that, to be happy yourself, then that’s your ego-orientation and that’s also cool. I also like people to be a certain way – open-hearted, practical, and at least a bit sexy – this is what makes me happy with other people, also with myself. Different people have different needs, I guess.
Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: matthew zielinski [mailto:mattzielinski@hotmail.com]
Sent: 05 November 2005 18:15
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Nick
Hi Nick
u wrote
I mean, what do you actually need to know about the universe to be in this world – very little!
to be in this world very little….to be happy in this world– alot
i think that it is very important to know that the universe is infinite expanding multi dimensional full of light and love
i think it has tremendous impact on how we create our personal reality
for example—knowing that a simple good thought has so many benefits is trully mindblowing
 if more people realized it is possible to use that energy of th whole for healing happines etc we would be better off ===u dont think?
love
matt
Open your e-mail without having to worry about viruses with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
Free yourself from those irritating pop-up ads with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: [Ibogaine] OT: study on safety of religious peyote use
Date: November 5, 2005 at 2:33:33 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Study: Religious use of peyote not harmful to American Indians
By Michael Kunzelman, Associated Press Writer  |  November 4, 2005
http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2005/11/04/s
tudy_religious_use_of_peyote_not_harmful_to_american_indians/
BOSTON –For John Halpern to study the effects of peyote on
American Indians who use the hallucinogenic cactus in religious
ceremonies, observing from a distance was not an option.
Halpern lived on the Navajo Nation reservation for months at a time
and
participated in prayer ceremonies. Earning their trust and
cooperation would have been impossible if he refused to ingest
peyote, he said.
“It never would have happened if I hadn’t done that. It’s one of
the ways they take the measure of a man,” said Halpern, a
psychiatrist at the Harvard-affiliated McLean Hospital in Belmont,
just outside of Boston.
A 1994 federal law allows roughly 300,000 members of the Native
American Church to use peyote as a religious sacrament, but Halpern
set out to find scientific proof for the Navajos’ belief that the
substance is not hazardous to their health.
After five years of research, Halpern and other McLean researchers
did not find any evidence of brain damage or psychological problems
in church members who frequently use peyote, which contains the
hallucinogen mescaline.
In fact, they found that members of the Native American Church
performed better on some of the neuropsychological tests than other
Navajos who do not regularly use peyote.
Church members believe peyote offers them spiritual and physical
healing, but Halpern and his colleagues could not say with any
certainty that its pharmacological effects are responsible for
their test results.
“It’s hard to know how much of it is the sense of community they
get (from the religion) and how much of it is the actual experience
of using the medication itself,” said Harrison Pope, the study’s
senior author and director of McLean’s biological psychology
laboratory.
Test results for 61 church members who have used peyote at least
100 times were compared against those for 79 Navajos who do not
regularly use peyote and 36 tribe members with a history of alcohol
abuse but minimal peyote use. Those who had abused alcohol fared
worse on the tests than the church members, according to the study.
The researchers argue that their findings should offer
“reassurance” to the 10,000 Native American Church members serving
in the military who were barred from using peyote before new
guidelines were adopted in 1997.
“We find no evidence that a history of peyote use would compromise
the psychological or cognitive abilities of these individuals,”
they wrote in a paper published in the Nov. 4 issue of Biological
Psychiatry.
The researchers are quick to note that their study draws a clear
distinction between illicit and religious use of peyote. And they
did not rule out the possibility that other hallucinogens, such as
LSD, may be harmful.
“In comparison to LSD, mescaline is described as more sensual and
perceptual and less altering of thought and sense of self,” they
wrote, adding that peyote does not seem to produce “flashbacks” the
same way that LSD apparently does.
However, the researchers are optimistic that their findings could
open the door to another area of research: testing the theory that
peyote could be an effective treatment for alcoholism.
“It’s an anecdote you hear from the Navajo themselves but something
that has never been formally tested in any fashion,” Pope said.
Halpern settled on members of the Native American Church as ideal
subjects for his research because they have had little or no
exposure to other drugs. But he met with stiff resistance when he
first visited the Navajo reservation in Arizona, New Mexico and
Utah.
“These are very proud peoples, and many of them are smarting over
the stigmatizing cliche about (American Indians’) substance abuse,”
he said. “It’s a real problem, but it’s a real problem in many
communities.”
Halpern found an ally on the reservation in Victor Clyde, who was a
vice president of the Native American Church of Navajoland. Clyde
persuaded skeptical church members to cooperate with Halpern.
“A lot of members did not want to allow him to do the research,”
said Clyde, a justice of the peace in Chinle, Ariz. “No one wants
to be put under the microscope like that.”
The project was funded in part by the National Institute on Drug
Abuse,
which is part of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services.
A NIDA spokeswoman would not comment on the study.
Lester Grinspoon, a Harvard Medical School psychiatry professor who
was not involved in Halpern’s research, said the study lends
scientific weight to a long-held belief that peyote is not harmful.
“The thing that excites me most about the paper is that the study
was actually done,” he said. “The U.S. government — and NIDA, in
particular — has been rather balky about allowing studies of
psychedelic drugs of any kind.”
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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] fractal site
Date: November 5, 2005 at 2:04:59 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Pretty! What exactly is fractal art? What are they made of or are they virtual images?
Callie
From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Nick
Date: November 5, 2005 at 1:45:35 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Dear matt,
you already know what you need to know and there is no prove that there
is anything more then what you know and what there is, wishing that
“if more people realized it is possible to use that energy of th whole for
healing happines etc we would be better off ===u dont think?”
will only create more lies “the way to happiness”… “the best way to
heal”…
“I’m more healed then you are…”
the real truth and the less real truth, who has  “the script”?
Sara
Hi Nick
u wrote
I mean, what do you actually need to know about the universe to be in this
world – very little!
to be in this world very little….to be happy in this world– alot
i think that it is very important to know that the universe is infinite
expanding multi dimensional full of light and love
i think it has tremendous impact on how we create our personal reality
for example—knowing that a simple good thought has so many benefits is
trully mindblowing
if more people realized it is possible to use that energy of th whole for
healing happines etc we would be better off ===u dont think?
love
matt
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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Nick
Date: November 5, 2005 at 1:42:12 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Matt,
Well, I mean, some people are just happy – however the universe is, however they are, however other people are.
If you need other people to be like this, or be like that, or believe this, or believe that, to be happy yourself, then that’s your ego-orientation and that’s also cool. I also like people to be a certain way – open-hearted, practical, and at least a bit sexy – this is what makes me happy with other people, also with myself. Different people have different needs, I guess.
Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: matthew zielinski [mailto:mattzielinski@hotmail.com]
Sent: 05 November 2005 18:15
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Nick
Hi Nick
u wrote
I mean, what do you actually need to know about the universe to be in this world – very little!
to be in this world very little….to be happy in this world– alot
i think that it is very important to know that the universe is infinite expanding multi dimensional full of light and love
i think it has tremendous impact on how we create our personal reality
for example—knowing that a simple good thought has so many benefits is trully mindblowing
 if more people realized it is possible to use that energy of th whole for healing happines etc we would be better off ===u dont think?
love
matt
Open your e-mail without having to worry about viruses with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Nick
Date: November 5, 2005 at 1:14:35 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Nick
u wrote
I mean, what do you actually need to know about the universe to be in this world – very little!
to be in this world very little….to be happy in this world– alot
i think that it is very important to know that the universe is infinite expanding multi dimensional full of light and love
i think it has tremendous impact on how we create our personal reality
for example—knowing that a simple good thought has so many benefits is trully mindblowing
 if more people realized it is possible to use that energy of th whole for healing happines etc we would be better off ===u dont think?
love
matt
Open your e-mail without having to worry about viruses with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] dosage >>>>>journey
Date: November 5, 2005 at 12:34:27 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
—–Original Message—–
From: matthew zielinski [mailto:mattzielinski@hotmail.com]
Sent: 05 November 2005 14:21
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] dosage >>>>>journey

Hello :}
No it has nothing to do with being cool and the attiude of “oh look how much ibogaine i did”
 throughout my three journeys i had a strong overwhelming feeling of iboga urging me to take more to see more……..this feeling was the strongest when i felt that really personal visions were begining to appear but never came through…like looking at an opaque veil and the vision is half way there but cant get pass through…thats when the voice began its plead
Hey Matthew,
Sure, if you feel intuitively that you need to take more then go for it.
i agree that the setting and emotional state etc is of great importance to having a sucesful sesion….that is why im doing it now….the conection to the universe has never been this strong and judging from what i experienced a larger dose will be more beneficial….but yah like i said i will devide it in three doses and see what happens
but how will taking more ibogaine produce less of this greateness is beyond me>?
if that was the case why would the bwiti be taking so much>?
Nick i read ur exprience in the cameroon…..hmmmm dont know what to think really…the thing is u never took as much again right>?….who knows what would happen now>?….i just think that the rule of taking more really applies to hallucionogens…..maybe im wrong……
 Well, I don’t KNOW, but I do know that it would do very little. Big dose you just space out on the excess until it’s moved out of your system. I mean, what do you actually need to know about the universe to be in this world – very little! Just some insights into how you are behaving with emotions and people really. Once you’ve got that, once you’ve really got it, then there’s precious little else it needs to do. That’s the way I see it. If I was using it again it would just be for getting insights into some situation, some dilemma.
Hope the session is good for you. Be nice to hear how it goes. It’s good to share
Nick
awaiting more opinions!!:}}…..especialy from those that complain  about this list not being used for ibogaine talk…..:}}}}}…..i alwys love ur input in thses matters :]
prepering my self for another journey of self discovery…..and for fuk sakes stop shit with bashing people for speaking their minds and puting people into some fuked up catergories……
love light and all that happy hippy shit :}
matt
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] dosage >>>>>journey
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 13:17:10 -0000
Personally, I don’t think there’s a benefit in taking anything above the recommended dose level. You can only process so much at a time and if there’s heaps and heaps of the drug in your system then you just stay out of it for days on end, with nothing apparently meaningful happening. This was my personal experience from taking a very large quantity in the Cameroun 6 years ago. I ate a couple of platefuls of iboga root and then drank a load of “automatique.” I passed out for pretty much 6.5 days. I mean, if you’re into drugs, maybe it sounds cool or something, but I don’t think it achieves anything and you don’t know what the long-term effects might be with very high doses. I don’t see any potential benefit to justify the risk. The strongest and most transformative experience I had on iboga was from taking an extract of about 10-15g iboga – a pretty moderate dose.
Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: Lee Albert [mailto:myeboga@yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: 05 November 2005 12:57
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dosage >>>>>journey
Hello matt,
If I understand you correctly you plan on taking 30mg/kg?
Well, I knew you were a bit crazy but didn’ realise how much :-).
Having said that I’ll give you my opinion on what you plan. But this is in no way an endorsement of what you are doing. You make your own choices.
Imo one can only go so high with eboga. So for instance one can put 30mg/kg in your system but actually not go any higher than 16 mg/kg. Eboga is an energy and the way it is used depends on a lot of factors. You could end up just feeling very jumpy for hours on end as the half of what you consume may not convert directly into the eboga experience but may take a more physical outlet. In fact taking too much at once is detrimental to the journey imo. You need to know your level and I guess this is what you are now learning.
If I were you intent on doing this I would spread the dose out. At least in that way there may be some chance of prolonging the healing high and in fact as I think of it it would be the best use of eboga as it would minimise wastage imo. If you take the dose all at once what you get is a certain level of high with a lot of excess unnecessary ibogaine floating around the system which is burned up but hours later is not as potent to continue the journey or something like that.
The high is determined imo by 2 things, sufficient dosage (this affects spirit energy) and preparation. Preparation is made up of many things such as time since last session, intention, emotional state, openness to explore etc. Thus if the dosage has been maxed, using any more is pure waste and also possibly/likely physically uncomfortable in my own experience.
Spread out the dose so that if you have the stamina to continue working with your shit the healing energy can continue to bounce you along. But once you tire of being confronted regardless of dose the experience can start to slip away from you.
Integration…………..
Best wishes,
Lee
PS Personally I think it may be a good thing (on occasion) when one is doing full sessions (at some stage in the healing journey) to find ones personal max level and to keep it up via step dosing. In that way one can max the healing experience for your needs at that stage of the process. However stop dosing if the journey (session) itself starts telling you: “Enough for today!” You cannot force the ajenda beyond a certain point. All of this comes with a health warning!
matthew zielinski <mattzielinski@hotmail.com> wrote:
greetings iboga fanatics
for someone who weighs about 65kg and is clean how would two grams of ibo hcl work out>?
I dont think there is any reason to worry right>?….never mind the health issues, asking about the journey….haa this time i wana come back heh :]
i mean fuk if i look at the amount they take in africa it seems like a joke
but i want to hear from people who got clean and repeated the session with a larger amount
but it is certain that the more u take u ll rach higher….aye>?…..becuase i think i read somewhere this is not always the case
the plan is to divide the 2 g s in three doses….one gram and two halfs….do the one then wait until the gods appear then do half and another half later on……will the effects be same if the dose is divided or taken all at once
Don im doing as good as is posible….thanks for asking :}…..its a strugle but i have found purpose and meaning to life so i know where im going and where i stand but most importantly where i dont want to end up :] and hey 5 weeks clean this tues coming up….fuken A!!…but i definetly will do ibo before xms and now since i can afford it i wana buy it with my next paycheck so the gods will have a few weeks to prepare themselves to  guide me again…..muahahahaa :]
love light and all that hipy shit
matt
and boaz although u have a valid point  look closely at the number of replies this mesage will get adn think about it….
Open your e-mail without having to worry about viruses with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
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From: Day Brown <daybrown@artelco.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] obtaining ibogaine
Date: November 5, 2005 at 12:44:13 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
sara119@xs4all.nl wrote:
this is how I see it too, and that’s why you can find people becoming
aggressive to family, to me, having to let out the suppressed emotions,
this is when mushrooms can help a lot after Iboga.
Come to think on it, while I have seen people freak on LSD and of
course alcohol, I’ve never seen anyone become aggressive or violently
flipped on either Amanita Muscaria or Pscilocybes. what I have seen, is
people withdraw into themselves, I believe in the struggle with their
own daemons rather than letting the daemons make trouble for anyone else.
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From: brenda brewer <shakti@photon.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Memories
Date: November 5, 2005 at 11:10:44 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi all,
I’ve been pondering this a little bit.  I’m reading the Power of Now again and Tolle talks about changing the past through your thoughts.  I’ll let you know what insights I gain, although I feel his work his like reading insight after insight, but I have not got to that part yet.
I do know many years ago when I moved back to Manhattan I become almost frozen in depression because of “bad memories.”  I’m hoping to do a little scientific research soon and go back there – maybe to some of the good time places like Times Square Garden where my mom used to take me, just me and her (my mom is awesome).  Maybe, transmute some of the “bad” memories I hold.  Maybe I can do that right here on the beach in California.
Feeling very, very well these days.  Being sober rocks.
Brenda
From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] dosage >>>>>journey
Date: November 5, 2005 at 9:20:51 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello :}
No it has nothing to do with being cool and the attiude of “oh look how much ibogaine i did”
 throughout my three journeys i had a strong overwhelming feeling of iboga urging me to take more to see more……..this feeling was the strongest when i felt that really personal visions were begining to appear but never came through…like looking at an opaque veil and the vision is half way there but cant get pass through…thats when the voice began its plead
i agree that the setting and emotional state etc is of great importance to having a sucesful sesion….that is why im doing it now….the conection to the universe has never been this strong and judging from what i experienced a larger dose will be more beneficial….but yah like i said i will devide it in three doses and see what happens
but how will taking more ibogaine produce less of this greateness is beyond me>?
if that was the case why would the bwiti be taking so much>?
Nick i read ur exprience in the cameroon…..hmmmm dont know what to think really…the thing is u never took as much again right>?….who knows what would happen now>?….i just think that the rule of taking more really applies to hallucionogens…..maybe im wrong……
awaiting more opinions!!:}}…..especialy from those that complain  about this list not being used for ibogaine talk…..:}}}}}…..i alwys love ur input in thses matters :]
prepering my self for another journey of self discovery…..and for fuk sakes stop shit with bashing people for speaking their minds and puting people into some fuked up catergories……
love light and all that happy hippy shit :}
matt
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] dosage >>>>>journey
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 13:17:10 -0000
Personally, I don’t think there’s a benefit in taking anything above the recommended dose level. You can only process so much at a time and if there’s heaps and heaps of the drug in your system then you just stay out of it for days on end, with nothing apparently meaningful happening. This was my personal experience from taking a very large quantity in the Cameroun 6 years ago. I ate a couple of platefuls of iboga root and then drank a load of “automatique.” I passed out for pretty much 6.5 days. I mean, if you’re into drugs, maybe it sounds cool or something, but I don’t think it achieves anything and you don’t know what the long-term effects might be with very high doses. I don’t see any potential benefit to justify the risk. The strongest and most transformative experience I had on iboga was from taking an extract of about 10-15g iboga – a pretty moderate dose.
Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: Lee Albert [mailto:myeboga@yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: 05 November 2005 12:57
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dosage >>>>>journey
Hello matt,
If I understand you correctly you plan on taking 30mg/kg?
Well, I knew you were a bit crazy but didn’ realise how much :-).
Having said that I’ll give you my opinion on what you plan. But this is in no way an endorsement of what you are doing. You make your own choices.
Imo one can only go so high with eboga. So for instance one can put 30mg/kg in your system but actually not go any higher than 16 mg/kg. Eboga is an energy and the way it is used depends on a lot of factors. You could end up just feeling very jumpy for hours on end as the half of what you consume may not convert directly into the eboga experience but may take a more physical outlet. In fact taking too much at once is detrimental to the journey imo. You need to know your level and I guess this is what you are now learning.
If I were you intent on doing this I would spread the dose out. At least in that way there may be some chance of prolonging the healing high and in fact as I think of it it would be the best use of eboga as it would minimise wastage imo. If you take the dose all at once what you get is a certain level of high with a lot of excess unnecessary ibogaine floating around the system which is burned up but hours later is not as potent to continue the journey or something like that.
The high is determined imo by 2 things, sufficient dosage (this affects spirit energy) and preparation. Preparation is made up of many things such as time since last session, intention, emotional state, openness to explore etc. Thus if the dosage has been maxed, using any more is pure waste and also possibly/likely physically uncomfortable in my own experience.
Spread out the dose so that if you have the stamina to continue working with your shit the healing energy can continue to bounce you along. But once you tire of being confronted regardless of dose the experience can start to slip away from you.
Integration…………..
Best wishes,
Lee
PS Personally I think it may be a good thing (on occasion) when one is doing full sessions (at some stage in the healing journey) to find ones personal max level and to keep it up via step dosing. In that way one can max the healing experience for your needs at that stage of the process. However stop dosing if the journey (session) itself starts telling you: “Enough for today!” You cannot force the ajenda beyond a certain point. All of this comes with a health warning!
matthew zielinski <mattzielinski@hotmail.com> wrote:
greetings iboga fanatics
for someone who weighs about 65kg and is clean how would two grams of ibo hcl work out>?
I dont think there is any reason to worry right>?….never mind the health issues, asking about the journey….haa this time i wana come back heh :]
i mean fuk if i look at the amount they take in africa it seems like a joke
but i want to hear from people who got clean and repeated the session with a larger amount
but it is certain that the more u take u ll rach higher….aye>?…..becuase i think i read somewhere this is not always the case
the plan is to divide the 2 g s in three doses….one gram and two halfs….do the one then wait until the gods appear then do half and another half later on……will the effects be same if the dose is divided or taken all at once
Don im doing as good as is posible….thanks for asking :}…..its a strugle but i have found purpose and meaning to life so i know where im going and where i stand but most importantly where i dont want to end up :] and hey 5 weeks clean this tues coming up….fuken A!!…but i definetly will do ibo before xms and now since i can afford it i wana buy it with my next paycheck so the gods will have a few weeks to prepare themselves to  guide me again…..muahahahaa :]
love light and all that hipy shit
matt
and boaz although u have a valid point  look closely at the number of replies this mesage will get adn think about it….
Open your e-mail without having to worry about viruses with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
Enjoy 25MB of inbox storage and 10MB per file attachment with MSN Premium. Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] salvia again
Date: November 5, 2005 at 9:18:45 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
people
who love psychedelics are completely blown away and turned off by
salvia.<
“Completely blown away” isn’t exactly how I would describe my opinion of Salvia, and I do “love psychedelics,” or at least have enjoyed and found useful the use of psychedelics over the years. Salvia just didn’t get me that high or out of my body or anything much of all- I smoked a few bowls of x10 extract, I think it was three, maybe four, bowls in a row (the last time I tried it- and there have been a few other attemtps, all pretty much failures in getting me at all “tripping” feeling) and all I felt was the urge to suddenly lie back on the bed, and the certainty that there was the face of a cat-like being just above me and to my right, watching me with a small smile but not saying or doing anything, and nothing about it at all was “frightening” in the slightest, nor particularly uncomfortable. I think it’s a subjective thing, one of those “it affects everyone differently” situations.
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —– From: “willie” <biognosis@hush.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 11:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] obtaining ibogaine
salvia divinorum is a pretty crazy trip.  it is short lived, yes,
but it is rarely comfortable and almost always frightening.  people
who love psychedelics are completely blown away and turned off by
salvia.
in my opinion dmt seems like a much better introduction.  it is
short lived, like salvia, but is more reliable (sometimes you just
don’t trip on salvia until you have a mind-bending breakthrough)
and also easier to manage.  it’s also easier to do just a little to
get a taste and build up to a full blown experience.  it’s easy
enough to procure some mimosa hostilis root bark and do a simple
extraction to get smokable dmt.
check out dmtworld.org for a lot of information on extractions.
search google for vendors.
just my two cents.
-biognosis
On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 05:44:13 -0800 Carol Ann
<saffireskyes@yahoo.com> wrote:
Day, et al
Do you (or anyone else)  from experience or otherwise, think that
salvia divinorum   might be a stepping stone for someone who has
never encountered a mind altering reality drug.
I am interested in ordering some but there are soo many vendors on
the Internet, I wouldnt know where to begin placing an order.  Any
thoughts or good references would be appreciated.
Carol Ann
Day Brown <daybrown@artelco.com> wrote:
I too asked for a vendor of Ibogaine, and googled for it, and
found
none. There is an alternative that is available, and legal:
http://jlfcatalogue.com is one source for Amanita Muscaria. I
just,
as a matter of fact, ordered 60 grams tonite. 53$ incl shipping.
These caveats, besides the voluminous warnings you will see post
at
JLF: According to ethnobotanist RG Wasson, “Persephone’s Quest”,
it
has been a native European shamantic tool for millennia. My own
work
since I read him came across stone carved models of A. Muscaria
found
in the Vinca culture of Romania/Hungary 7000 years ago.
The polka dotted mushroom is ubiquitous in European folk art as
far
back as we can go, and now we have some idea as to why.
The best source is to find it in the woods yourself, but the
season is
over. I’ve seen, and harvested it in the Ozarks, but not seen any
at
all this year. In fact, all toadstools this year have been rare.
Some
of those from JLF come from Oregon and Washington. They also
routinely
have some imported from the Baltic nations and Portugal, and
tonite, I
saw some stock from China- which they say is poor quality.
Prefer the *caps*; these will still have the characteristic
scales, and
if they do, preclude them from being the poisonous Amanita
‘deathcaps’.
While fresh, the reds, browns, oranges, and beige colors are
obvious,
but in the dried samples they will either be dark brown or gray.
(BTW-
I’ve also harvested and dried the deadly Amanita phalloides, and
they
retain their white color)
While I would trust the supply from JLF, if I’m going to, as I
plan,
share them with another, I want to be able to examine the caps and
see the scales myself to be sure no mistake was made. If the
scales
are there, they might be A. Rubescens, or some other edible
variety,
but in any case, harmless.
Several days, or more, prior to ritual use, give acolytes some
small
sample, say the size of the nickel, to make sure that they are
not,
as Wasson warns, allergic. According to Ugarit shamen, who still
use
A. Muscaria in ritual, perhaps 1 person in 10,000 is allergic.
The day before, refrain from the use of alcohol. *ANY* alcohol in
the
system after ingesting A. Muscaria will be sickening, altho not
fatal.
although, the drunks I knew who got into my supply thot they were
going
to die. I could go into the physiological reasons, but take my
word for
it, or on request, I’ll post the details.
I dont know of anyone, either those I shared it with in ritual
over the
last several years, or anyone else who had an adverse reaction
without
also having alcohol in their system; that being said, inasmuch as
it is
a *Native European* shamantic tool, those of that ancestry should
feel
more at ease in their initial use.
Traditionally, it is used on the nites of either the new or full
moon.
We’ve always followed tradition. Granted that A. Muscaria is
listed as
poisonous, and therefore, in that belief, its never been banned.
*BUT*-
“Soma” is not just the *dried* toadstool, but is mixed with an
equal
amount of some animal fat. I’ve used butter. Either slather the
shooms
with butter, or in warm weather, I’ve made shroom smoothies with
cream,
plus whatever fruit you fancy.
Turns out, that the fatty alkaloids in the mushroom which cause
gastric
distress are buffered by the fatty acids of butter, lard, cream,
or
whatever. Ugarit Shamen use reindeer tallow; Brahmins used ghee.
Traditionally, we have also made Pelanos, the sacred Dionysian
bread,
put in the oven at sundown. Pelanos is a yeast bread, half whole
wheat
and have barley. Like Amanita Rubescens, Muscaria stimulates
mucosal
membranes, including the salivary, and certain foods taste great.
Novices should start with a square inch of cap, and eat or drink
the
equivalent again every hour or so until the mental state is
noticeably
different. Unlike recreational drugs, the effect comes on
gradually,
and usually more variable from one person to another, as well as
the
potency of the shooms themselves, which grow wild and respond to
their natural environment unpredictably.
3-9 square inches of cap or the equivalent stem will be sufficient
in
all experiences I have had and seen in others. The transition from
the
normal to the altered state of consciousness is not clearly
defined;
in most cases there is a certain amount of flipping from one to
the
other and back again depending on where you want your attention to
be
at the time.
I’ve never seen a ‘bad trip’ among the dozens of people I have
shared
A. Muscaria with. however, we have always used a remote rural
sacred
site sure that we would not be disturbed by the insanity of what
passes
for civilization. I would not have children present. Not that it
would
be bad for kids to watch, but you dont want adults, trying to
experience
the astral plane, or focus on introspection, to have to worry, as
they
will, about what the kids are up to.
A. Muscaria permits, but does not demand, a kind of tunnel vision
of
the mind’s eye to focus on certain aspects of being. The eidetic
look
of surroundings is like that from other psychedelics, but Muscaria
has
a less frenetic feel emotionally. Another reason I’d avoid urban
sites
is that the senses are sharpened, and the noise and bright lites
found
in urban areas would be annoying. Not that drum, dance, and
recorded or
live music are not enjoyed, but in an isolated location, they will
be
of your own choice. and the lack of them all is conducive to the
kind
of meditation you hope for in ritual at some point anyway.
Expect to be up all nite. So plan the time to nap the next day.
Its nice
to have the quiet time to consider what it has taught you anyway.
/]=—————————————————————-
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—–=[/
Best regards,
Carol
_______________________________
Never Accept Only Two Choices in Life.
The problems of Today cannot be solved by the same thinking that
created them.
-Al Einstein.
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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] dosage >>>>>journey
Date: November 5, 2005 at 8:17:10 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Personally, I don’t think there’s a benefit in taking anything above the recommended dose level. You can only process so much at a time and if there’s heaps and heaps of the drug in your system then you just stay out of it for days on end, with nothing apparently meaningful happening. This was my personal experience from taking a very large quantity in the Cameroun 6 years ago. I ate a couple of platefuls of iboga root and then drank a load of “automatique.” I passed out for pretty much 6.5 days. I mean, if you’re into drugs, maybe it sounds cool or something, but I don’t think it achieves anything and you don’t know what the long-term effects might be with very high doses. I don’t see any potential benefit to justify the risk. The strongest and most transformative experience I had on iboga was from taking an extract of about 10-15g iboga – a pretty moderate dose.
Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: Lee Albert [mailto:myeboga@yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: 05 November 2005 12:57
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dosage >>>>>journey
Hello matt,
If I understand you correctly you plan on taking 30mg/kg?
Well, I knew you were a bit crazy but didn’ realise how much :-).
Having said that I’ll give you my opinion on what you plan. But this is in no way an endorsement of what you are doing. You make your own choices.
Imo one can only go so high with eboga. So for instance one can put 30mg/kg in your system but actually not go any higher than 16 mg/kg. Eboga is an energy and the way it is used depends on a lot of factors. You could end up just feeling very jumpy for hours on end as the half of what you consume may not convert directly into the eboga experience but may take a more physical outlet. In fact taking too much at once is detrimental to the journey imo. You need to know your level and I guess this is what you are now learning.
If I were you intent on doing this I would spread the dose out. At least in that way there may be some chance of prolonging the healing high and in fact as I think of it it would be the best use of eboga as it would minimise wastage imo. If you take the dose all at once what you get is a certain level of high with a lot of excess unnecessary ibogaine floating around the system which is burned up but hours later is not as potent to continue the journey or something like that.
The high is determined imo by 2 things, sufficient dosage (this affects spirit energy) and preparation. Preparation is made up of many things such as time since last session, intention, emotional state, openness to explore etc. Thus if the dosage has been maxed, using any more is pure waste and also possibly/likely physically uncomfortable in my own experience.
Spread out the dose so that if you have the stamina to continue working with your shit the healing energy can continue to bounce you along. But once you tire of being confronted regardless of dose the experience can start to slip away from you.
Integration…………..
Best wishes,
Lee
PS Personally I think it may be a good thing (on occasion) when one is doing full sessions (at some stage in the healing journey) to find ones personal max level and to keep it up via step dosing. In that way one can max the healing experience for your needs at that stage of the process. However stop dosing if the journey (session) itself starts telling you: “Enough for today!” You cannot force the ajenda beyond a certain point. All of this comes with a health warning!
matthew zielinski <mattzielinski@hotmail.com> wrote:
greetings iboga fanatics
for someone who weighs about 65kg and is clean how would two grams of ibo hcl work out>?
I dont think there is any reason to worry right>?….never mind the health issues, asking about the journey….haa this time i wana come back heh :]
i mean fuk if i look at the amount they take in africa it seems like a joke
but i want to hear from people who got clean and repeated the session with a larger amount
but it is certain that the more u take u ll rach higher….aye>?…..becuase i think i read somewhere this is not always the case
the plan is to divide the 2 g s in three doses….one gram and two halfs….do the one then wait until the gods appear then do half and another half later on……will the effects be same if the dose is divided or taken all at once
Don im doing as good as is posible….thanks for asking :}…..its a strugle but i have found purpose and meaning to life so i know where im going and where i stand but most importantly where i dont want to end up :] and hey 5 weeks clean this tues coming up….fuken A!!…but i definetly will do ibo before xms and now since i can afford it i wana buy it with my next paycheck so the gods will have a few weeks to prepare themselves to  guide me again…..muahahahaa :]
love light and all that hipy shit
matt
and boaz although u have a valid point  look closely at the number of replies this mesage will get adn think about it….
Open your e-mail without having to worry about viruses with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dosage >>>>>journey
Date: November 5, 2005 at 7:56:52 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hello matt,
If I understand you correctly you plan on taking 30mg/kg?
Well, I knew you were a bit crazy but didn’ realise how much :-).
Having said that I’ll give you my opinion on what you plan. But this is in no way an endorsement of what you are doing. You make your own choices.
Imo one can only go so high with eboga. So for instance one can put 30mg/kg in your system but actually not go any higher than 16 mg/kg. Eboga is an energy and the way it is used depends on a lot of factors. You could end up just feeling very jumpy for hours on end as the half of what you consume may not convert directly into the eboga experience but may take a more physical outlet. In fact taking too much at once is detrimental to the journey imo. You need to know your level and I guess this is what you are now learning.
If I were you intent on doing this I would spread the dose out. At least in that way there may be some chance of prolonging the healing high and in fact as I think of it it would be the best use of eboga as it would minimise wastage imo. If you take the dose all at once what you get is a certain level of high with a lot of excess unnecessary ibogaine floating around the system which is burned up but hours later is not as potent to continue the journey or something like that.
The high is determined imo by 2 things, sufficient dosage (this affects spirit energy) and preparation. Preparation is made up of many things such as time since last session, intention, emotional state, openness to explore etc. Thus if the dosage has been maxed, using any more is pure waste and also possibly/likely physically uncomfortable in my own experience.
Spread out the dose so that if you have the stamina to continue working with your shit the healing energy can continue to bounce you along. But once you tire of being confronted regardless of dose the experience can start to slip away from you.
Integration…………..
Best wishes,
Lee
PS Personally I think it may be a good thing (on occasion) when one is doing full sessions (at some stage in the healing journey) to find ones personal max level and to keep it up via step dosing. In that way one can max the healing experience for your needs at that stage of the process. However stop dosing if the journey (session) itself starts telling you: “Enough for today!” You cannot force the ajenda beyond a certain point. All of this comes with a health warning!
matthew zielinski <mattzielinski@hotmail.com> wrote:
greetings iboga fanatics
for someone who weighs about 65kg and is clean how would two grams of ibo hcl work out>?
I dont think there is any reason to worry right>?….never mind the health issues, asking about the journey….haa this time i wana come back heh :]
i mean fuk if i look at the amount they take in africa it seems like a joke
but i want to hear from people who got clean and repeated the session with a larger amount
but it is certain that the more u take u ll rach higher….aye>?…..becuase i think i read somewhere this is not always the case
the plan is to divide the 2 g s in three doses….one gram and two halfs….do the one then wait until the gods appear then do half and another half later on……will the effects be same if the dose is divided or taken all at once
Don im doing as good as is posible….thanks for asking :}…..its a strugle but i have found purpose and meaning to life so i know where im going and where i stand but most importantly where i dont want to end up :] and hey 5 weeks clean this tues coming up….fuken A!!…but i definetly will do ibo before xms and now since i can afford it i wana buy it with my next paycheck so the gods will have a few weeks to prepare themselves to  guide me again…..muahahahaa :]
love light and all that hipy shit
matt
and boaz although u have a valid point  look closely at the number of replies this mesage will get adn think about it….
Open your e-mail without having to worry about viruses with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Erasing memories and its potential for addiction           treatment
Date: November 5, 2005 at 3:59:35 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sara,
Ignored,..you have got to be kidding,..I also read your posts, I actually
read yours first most of the time. You have treated many people and
have a wealth of information to give.
I for one was treated successfully by you, your posts are informative.
                                                         love Jasen
.
I find my post on this list to be ignored 99% of the times, so I like to
thank you for reacting in an open minded way.
sara
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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] fractal site
Date: November 5, 2005 at 3:34:26 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
http://www.fractalartcontests.com/1997/topten97.htm
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From: sara119@xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] obtaining ibogaine
Date: November 5, 2005 at 2:53:14 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Carol Ann wrote:
Day, et al
Do you (or anyone else)  from experience or otherwise, think that
salvia */divinorum/*
<http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&hs=W30&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official_s&q=salvia+divinorum&spell=1>
might be a stepping stone for someone who has never encountered a mind
altering reality drug.
I’m informed by someone of Native American blood that it is expensive
and ineffective. Perhaps more useful to someone who already knew how
to meditate, and had an appropriate space to use it in. But whatever
you try, it’d be re-assuring to have a spirit guide present, familiar
with the emotional states that sometimes arise from any entheogen.
The impression I get from personal report and
http://www.sagewisdom.org/faq.html
is that the effect wearing off after only 20 minutes would preclude
the kind of trance state you use entheogens for, sufficing only to
familiarize yourself with some of the eidetic and other sensual
aspects.
Certainly, anyone considering the use of an entheogen should be very
worried- the truths that come out of the experience are often those
which have been suppressed because they are so uncomfortable to think
about. but OTOH, as the Greek “Epoptes”, you become one who eyes have
been opened, and life is much more comfortable.
this is how I see it too, and that’s why you can find people becoming
aggressive
to family, to me, having to let out the suppressed emotions,
this is when mushrooms can help a lot after Iboga.
sara
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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Erasing memories and its potential for addiction treatment
Date: November 5, 2005 at 2:51:42 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Awww Sara, I read your emails!  Just don’t respond often but I love them,
they’re always interesting to me!
Hugs mate
Kirk xx
—–Original Message—–
From: sara119@xs4all.nl [mailto:sara119@xs4all.nl]
Sent: Saturday, 5 November 2005 8:46 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Erasing memories and its potential for addiction
treatment
sara119@xs4all.nl wrote:
it looks likes a total chaos, what patterns? from earth to earth that is
all that is sure a pattern recycling of the material, that will not
change. the change is due to an insight,a person who experiences “the
love
of the spirit” during an experience, “healing” what ever you like to
name
it… will NOT change from being an selfish asshole power tripper to a
loving kindness tripper…
who shows respect and valiue to other peoples realities, it is all a
trip
but some can make their trip easier by not holding on to a lot of
nonsense
but letting that go without the need to express it in public before
regrets.
Some are just Avatars that exist to present a challenge like the
monsters in a video game. They dont heal, they dont learn.
last session with a person few weeks back, we took together a dose and
spend all night talking and listening to eachother memories, we couldn’t
understand what’s the point was of holding on to all that info. from
years
back, why it come up during the session and how do we relate to that
info.
right now. we came up with… it is a “chaos” and with our intelligence
find the middle way, (the balance within each day), which is easier to
find when there is no one else to blame “it”on(the addiction, the pain,
the lust,the happiness).
Fractles are patterns, but you cant make a fractle without Chaos.
Seems like art is the integration of such things as pain, lust, peace,
contentment, discontent… with the random things that appear, either in
your immediate space, or the memorable space in your mind.
I find my post on this list to be ignored 99% of the times, so I like to
thank you for reacting in an open minded way.
sara
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From: sara119@xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Erasing memories and its potential for addiction     treatment
Date: November 5, 2005 at 2:45:51 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
sara119@xs4all.nl wrote:
it looks likes a total chaos, what patterns? from earth to earth that is
all that is sure a pattern recycling of the material, that will not
change. the change is due to an insight,a person who experiences “the
love
of the spirit” during an experience, “healing” what ever you like to
name
it… will NOT change from being an selfish asshole power tripper to a
loving kindness tripper…
who shows respect and valiue to other peoples realities, it is all a
trip
but some can make their trip easier by not holding on to a lot of
nonsense
but letting that go without the need to express it in public before
regrets.
Some are just Avatars that exist to present a challenge like the
monsters in a video game. They dont heal, they dont learn.
last session with a person few weeks back, we took together a dose and
spend all night talking and listening to eachother memories, we couldn’t
understand what’s the point was of holding on to all that info. from
years
back, why it come up during the session and how do we relate to that
info.
right now. we came up with… it is a “chaos” and with our intelligence
find the middle way, (the balance within each day), which is easier to
find when there is no one else to blame “it”on(the addiction, the pain,
the lust,the happiness).
Fractles are patterns, but you cant make a fractle without Chaos.
Seems like art is the integration of such things as pain, lust, peace,
contentment, discontent… with the random things that appear, either in
your immediate space, or the memorable space in your mind.
I find my post on this list to be ignored 99% of the times, so I like to
thank you for reacting in an open minded way.
sara
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From: Day Brown <daybrown@artelco.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Erasing memories and its potential for addiction  treatment
Date: November 5, 2005 at 2:46:48 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
sara119@xs4all.nl wrote:
it looks likes a total chaos, what patterns? from earth to earth that is
all that is sure a pattern recycling of the material, that will not
change. the change is due to an insight,a person who experiences “the love
of the spirit” during an experience, “healing” what ever you like to name
it… will NOT change from being an selfish asshole power tripper to a
loving kindness tripper…
who shows respect and valiue to other peoples realities, it is all a trip
but some can make their trip easier by not holding on to a lot of nonsense
but letting that go without the need to express it in public before
regrets.
Some are just Avatars that exist to present a challenge like the
monsters in a video game. They dont heal, they dont learn.
last session with a person few weeks back, we took together a dose and
spend all night talking and listening to eachother memories, we couldn’t
understand what’s the point was of holding on to all that info. from years
back, why it come up during the session and how do we relate to that info.
right now. we came up with… it is a “chaos” and with our intelligence
find the middle way, (the balance within each day), which is easier to
find when there is no one else to blame “it”on(the addiction, the pain,
the lust,the happiness).
Fractles are patterns, but you cant make a fractle without Chaos.
Seems like art is the integration of such things as pain, lust, peace,
contentment, discontent… with the random things that appear, either in
your immediate space, or the memorable space in your mind.
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: Day Brown <daybrown@artelco.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Erasing memories and its potential for addiction treatment
Date: November 5, 2005 at 2:41:45 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
slowone@hush.ai wrote:
Thanks for the computer metaphor for memory. I meant, is the name “Wrye Sententia” real – but it does seem to represent a real person.. I expect it was chosen as an adult. My own idea of an optional name for a woman happens to be ‘Convolutia’, but that’s just me, as it were. 🙂
Seems like any mind, synthetic or otherwise, would havta be convoluted
to cope with the ambiguities of chaos.
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dosage >>>>>journey
Date: November 5, 2005 at 12:48:02 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Dude, that is AMAZING!!
Is Ethnogarden a good, clean source? Why do you want to do it again? Was 1G not enough? Did you vomit? Did you “Reset?”
matthew zielinski wrote:
greetings iboga fanatics
for someone who weighs about 65kg and is clean how would two grams of ibo hcl work out>?
I dont think there is any reason to worry right>?….never mind the health issues, asking about the journey….haa this time i wana come back heh :]
i mean fuk if i look at the amount they take in africa it seems like a joke
but i want to hear from people who got clean and repeated the session with a larger amount
but it is certain that the more u take u ll rach higher….aye>?…..becuase i think i read somewhere this is not always the case
the plan is to divide the 2 g s in three doses….one gram and two halfs….do the one then wait until the gods appear then do half and another half later on……will the effects be same if the dose is divided or taken all at once
Don im doing as good as is posible….thanks for asking :}…..its a strugle but i have found purpose and meaning to life so i know where im going and where i stand but most importantly where i dont want to end up :] and hey 5 weeks clean this tues coming up….fuken A!!…but i definetly will do ibo before xms and now since i can afford it i wana buy it with my next paycheck so the gods will have a few weeks to prepare themselves to  guide me again…..muahahahaa :]
love light and all that hipy shit
matt
and boaz although u have a valid point  look closely at the number of replies this mesage will get adn think about it….
Open your e-mail without having to worry about viruses with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE*/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
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From: “willie” <biognosis@hush.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] obtaining ibogaine
Date: November 4, 2005 at 11:58:42 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
salvia divinorum is a pretty crazy trip.  it is short lived, yes,
but it is rarely comfortable and almost always frightening.  people
who love psychedelics are completely blown away and turned off by
salvia.
in my opinion dmt seems like a much better introduction.  it is
short lived, like salvia, but is more reliable (sometimes you just
don’t trip on salvia until you have a mind-bending breakthrough)
and also easier to manage.  it’s also easier to do just a little to
get a taste and build up to a full blown experience.  it’s easy
enough to procure some mimosa hostilis root bark and do a simple
extraction to get smokable dmt.
check out dmtworld.org for a lot of information on extractions.
search google for vendors.
just my two cents.
-biognosis
On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 05:44:13 -0800 Carol Ann
<saffireskyes@yahoo.com> wrote:
Day, et al
Do you (or anyone else)  from experience or otherwise, think that
salvia divinorum   might be a stepping stone for someone who has
never encountered a mind altering reality drug.
I am interested in ordering some but there are soo many vendors on
the Internet, I wouldnt know where to begin placing an order.  Any
thoughts or good references would be appreciated.
Carol Ann
Day Brown <daybrown@artelco.com> wrote:
I too asked for a vendor of Ibogaine, and googled for it, and
found
none. There is an alternative that is available, and legal:
http://jlfcatalogue.com is one source for Amanita Muscaria. I
just,
as a matter of fact, ordered 60 grams tonite. 53$ incl shipping.
These caveats, besides the voluminous warnings you will see post
at
JLF: According to ethnobotanist RG Wasson, “Persephone’s Quest”,
it
has been a native European shamantic tool for millennia. My own
work
since I read him came across stone carved models of A. Muscaria
found
in the Vinca culture of Romania/Hungary 7000 years ago.
The polka dotted mushroom is ubiquitous in European folk art as
far
back as we can go, and now we have some idea as to why.
The best source is to find it in the woods yourself, but the
season is
over. I’ve seen, and harvested it in the Ozarks, but not seen any
at
all this year. In fact, all toadstools this year have been rare.
Some
of those from JLF come from Oregon and Washington. They also
routinely
have some imported from the Baltic nations and Portugal, and
tonite, I
saw some stock from China- which they say is poor quality.
Prefer the *caps*; these will still have the characteristic
scales, and
if they do, preclude them from being the poisonous Amanita
‘deathcaps’.
While fresh, the reds, browns, oranges, and beige colors are
obvious,
but in the dried samples they will either be dark brown or gray.
(BTW-
I’ve also harvested and dried the deadly Amanita phalloides, and
they
retain their white color)
While I would trust the supply from JLF, if I’m going to, as I
plan,
share them with another, I want to be able to examine the caps and
see the scales myself to be sure no mistake was made. If the
scales
are there, they might be A. Rubescens, or some other edible
variety,
but in any case, harmless.
Several days, or more, prior to ritual use, give acolytes some
small
sample, say the size of the nickel, to make sure that they are
not,
as Wasson warns, allergic. According to Ugarit shamen, who still
use
A. Muscaria in ritual, perhaps 1 person in 10,000 is allergic.
The day before, refrain from the use of alcohol. *ANY* alcohol in
the
system after ingesting A. Muscaria will be sickening, altho not
fatal.
although, the drunks I knew who got into my supply thot they were
going
to die. I could go into the physiological reasons, but take my
word for
it, or on request, I’ll post the details.
I dont know of anyone, either those I shared it with in ritual
over the
last several years, or anyone else who had an adverse reaction
without
also having alcohol in their system; that being said, inasmuch as
it is
a *Native European* shamantic tool, those of that ancestry should
feel
more at ease in their initial use.
Traditionally, it is used on the nites of either the new or full
moon.
We’ve always followed tradition. Granted that A. Muscaria is
listed as
poisonous, and therefore, in that belief, its never been banned.
*BUT*-
“Soma” is not just the *dried* toadstool, but is mixed with an
equal
amount of some animal fat. I’ve used butter. Either slather the
shooms
with butter, or in warm weather, I’ve made shroom smoothies with
cream,
plus whatever fruit you fancy.
Turns out, that the fatty alkaloids in the mushroom which cause
gastric
distress are buffered by the fatty acids of butter, lard, cream,
or
whatever. Ugarit Shamen use reindeer tallow; Brahmins used ghee.
Traditionally, we have also made Pelanos, the sacred Dionysian
bread,
put in the oven at sundown. Pelanos is a yeast bread, half whole
wheat
and have barley. Like Amanita Rubescens, Muscaria stimulates
mucosal
membranes, including the salivary, and certain foods taste great.
Novices should start with a square inch of cap, and eat or drink
the
equivalent again every hour or so until the mental state is
noticeably
different. Unlike recreational drugs, the effect comes on
gradually,
and usually more variable from one person to another, as well as
the
potency of the shooms themselves, which grow wild and respond to
their natural environment unpredictably.
3-9 square inches of cap or the equivalent stem will be sufficient
in
all experiences I have had and seen in others. The transition from
the
normal to the altered state of consciousness is not clearly
defined;
in most cases there is a certain amount of flipping from one to
the
other and back again depending on where you want your attention to
be
at the time.
I’ve never seen a ‘bad trip’ among the dozens of people I have
shared
A. Muscaria with. however, we have always used a remote rural
sacred
site sure that we would not be disturbed by the insanity of what
passes
for civilization. I would not have children present. Not that it
would
be bad for kids to watch, but you dont want adults, trying to
experience
the astral plane, or focus on introspection, to have to worry, as
they
will, about what the kids are up to.
A. Muscaria permits, but does not demand, a kind of tunnel vision
of
the mind’s eye to focus on certain aspects of being. The eidetic
look
of surroundings is like that from other psychedelics, but Muscaria
has
a less frenetic feel emotionally. Another reason I’d avoid urban
sites
is that the senses are sharpened, and the noise and bright lites
found
in urban areas would be annoying. Not that drum, dance, and
recorded or
live music are not enjoyed, but in an isolated location, they will
be
of your own choice. and the lack of them all is conducive to the
kind
of meditation you hope for in ritual at some point anyway.
Expect to be up all nite. So plan the time to nap the next day.
Its nice
to have the quiet time to consider what it has taught you anyway.
/]=—————————————————————-
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Best regards,
Carol
_______________________________
Never Accept Only Two Choices in Life.
The problems of Today cannot be solved by the same thinking that
created them.
-Al Einstein.
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From: Carol Ann <saffireskyes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] obtaining ibogaine
Date: November 4, 2005 at 10:50:22 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
— Day Brown <daybrown@artelco.com> wrote:
And, since I found your post looking thru my
deleted
junkmail  looking for something else, it begs the
question of  what the internet
deamons will *let* you see. The internet email
interface is one of  the most adaptable Kharmic
tools ever invented. Messages that dont
fulfill your Kharma are either mis-sent into the
ozone, caught in the
spam filter of your ISP, or redirected by your own
desktop into the
trash without you ever being aware of what should be
there, but isnt.
When reading the comments about the list posts going
to the trash, my initial inquiry about Salvia was I
felt, like a note in a bottle set adrift or an arrow
shot into space.  That being said, and considering
your reply, if  earnest,
http://www.sagewisdom.org/salviashop.html
is a good beginning. Is there anything that is NOT
Karmic.
Best regards,
Carol
_______________________________
Never Accept Only Two Choices in Life.
The problems of Today cannot be solved by the same thinking that created them.
-Al Einstein.
__________________________________
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fw: [DrugWar] UK: Lemmy of Motorhead calls for heroin to be legalised
Date: November 4, 2005 at 10:27:03 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Go Lemmy. He’s got the right idea, at least in my own humble opinion.
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —– From: “Tim Meehan” <tmeehan@connect.carleton.ca>
To: “CCC” <ccc-members@yahoogroups.com>; “NDPot” <ndpot@drugsense.org>; “CMAP” <cmap@mapinc.org>; “Drugwar” <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 8:44 PM
Subject: [DrugWar] UK: Lemmy of Motorhead calls for heroin to be legalised
http://www.nme.com/news/motorhead/21421
Lemmy calls for heroin to be legalised
The Motorhead leader says its the only way to stop dealers
Motorhead frontman Lemmy has called on the Government to legalise heroin.
The singer used a Tory platform at the Welsh Assembly to voice his controversial message just hours before his band were due to go onstage at Cardiff University last night (Noveber 3).
Lemmy, who was invited by Tory AM William Graham to spread an anti-drugs message, said legalising “the single most destructive drug in the world” would wipe out dealers and stop criminalising young people, The Independent reports.
He said: “I have never had heroin but since I moved to London in 1967, I have mixed with junkies on a casual and almost daily basis. I hate the idea even as I say it, but the only way to treat heroin is to legalise it.”
Lemmy, real name Ian Kilminster, was invited to speak about the drug by Graham’s researcher Paul Williams following a recent Channel 4 documentary, Live Fast Die Old where the singer spoke about his hatred of heroin.
He added: “If it were on prescription, then at least two thirds of the dealers would disappear and you would have records of who was using it.
If a junkie has a regular supply, most are able to do a job. They will never rehabilitate until somebody – you – gives them a chance to.
<]=———————————————————————–=[>
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From: Day Brown <daybrown@artelco.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] obtaining ibogaine
Date: November 4, 2005 at 11:08:15 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Carol Ann wrote:
“Certainly, anyone considering the use of an entheogen
should be very worried- the truths that come out of
the experience are often those which have been
suppressed because they are so uncomfortable to think
about. but OTOH, as the Greek “Epoptes”, you become
one who eyes have been opened, and life is much more
comfortable.”
Day, The only cause for real concern is what or when one is
not seeing.
And, since I found your post looking thru my deleted junkmail
looking for something else, it begs the question of what the internet
deamons will *let* you see. The internet email interface is one of
the most adaptable Kharmic tools ever invented. Messages that dont
fulfill your Kharma are either mis-sent into the ozone, caught in the
spam filter of your ISP, or redirected by your own desktop into the
trash without you ever being aware of what should be there, but isnt.
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
From: Day Brown <daybrown@artelco.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Erasing memories and its potential for addiction treatment
Date: November 4, 2005 at 10:59:46 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Preston Peet wrote:
Day Brown wrote >This, of course, smacks of racism, yet somehow, all of
those interested in promoting the use of entheogens fail to see how this
fact can be used to attack the whole repressive legal system.<
Only if we were dealing with rational, logical people I’m afraid Day. One would think this would be so, and more that it would be obvious to more people but we’re not talking about logical and rational thought and behavior here. The “repressive legal system” doesn’t much care about racism when it comes to drug use. It doesn’t care about much of anything when it comes to drug use other than saying “NO.”
Agreed. But I am somewhat bemused to see that there are so few rational
that none of them have found out about this use of Amanita Muscaria.
It is yet another clue that I’m living on some kind of matrix where
truely random distributions, of in this case rationality, dont exist.
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: Carol Ann <saffireskyes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] obtaining ibogaine
Date: November 4, 2005 at 6:57:31 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
“Certainly, anyone considering the use of an entheogen
should be very worried- the truths that come out of
the experience are often those which have been
suppressed because they are so uncomfortable to think
about. but OTOH, as the Greek “Epoptes”, you become
one who eyes have been opened, and life is much more
comfortable.”
Day,
The only cause for real concern is what or when one is
not seeing.
Thank you for the reference to the website. Much
appreciated.
— Day Brown <daybrown@artelco.com> wrote:
Carol Ann wrote:
Day, et al
Do you (or anyone else)  from experience or
otherwise, think that
salvia */divinorum/*
<http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&hs=W30&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official_s&q=salvia+divinorum&spell=1>
might be a stepping stone for someone who has
never encountered a mind
altering reality drug.
I’m informed by someone of Native American blood
that it is expensive
and ineffective. Perhaps more useful to someone who
already knew how
to meditate, and had an appropriate space to use it
in. But whatever
you try, it’d be re-assuring to have a spirit guide
present, familiar
with the emotional states that sometimes arise from
any entheogen.
The impression I get from personal report and
http://www.sagewisdom.org/faq.html
is that the effect wearing off after only 20 minutes
would preclude
the kind of trance state you use entheogens for,
sufficing only to
familiarize yourself with some of the eidetic and
other sensual
aspects.
Certainly, anyone considering the use of an
entheogen should be very
worried- the truths that come out of the experience
are often those
which have been suppressed because they are so
uncomfortable to think
about. but OTOH, as the Greek “Epoptes”, you become
one who eyes have
been opened, and life is much more comfortable.
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
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\]=———————————————————————=[/
Best regards,
Carol
_______________________________
Never Accept Only Two Choices in Life.
The problems of Today cannot be solved by the same thinking that created them.
-Al Einstein.
__________________________________
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com
 /]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: Morning Wood <morning_wood263@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Um OT……. re: thanks etc etc
Date: November 4, 2005 at 6:31:37 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Yeah, I’m not sure how that picture got put on that note, ’cause I didn’t put it there, and the message I was replying to didn’t have it attatched.  Guess I made some backdoor professional angry or something.
If their is an attatchment from “me”, don’t open it, ’cause I don’t send attatchments  here (anymore),
Also my message wording was a bit off.  I wasn’t referring to the unsubscribe feature, I ment the ‘block sender feature’ in the e-mail might be a good idea.
 Of course I’m too lazy to do that so I use what’s left of my brain like others, I only open messages from people I have time to read from or have a good likelyhood of being worthwhile.
The large attatchments can get to be a bit much, expecially when they are re-sent through replies.  Sorry about my part in that.
cheers,
Jason
slowone@hush.ai wrote:
Kirk, this msg was another case of someone re-including the
picture.
On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 13:53:44 -0800 Morning Wood
wrote:
>I think the unsubscribe feature in e-mail should take care of that
>problem.
>
>Or
>
> You must write your post in a scientific paper templet. The
>author must have at least a 4 year b.s., site all references
>correctly and make sure any expressions are legal under current
>’fair use’ law. Post’s should only come from people of the old
>school ibogaine ‘movement’.
>
>
>So it seems Corny, oh well.
>
>
>
>
>
>I am sorry to say but many of the recent postings on the Ibogaine
>list are hurting the Ibogaine list because of meaningful
>information on Ibogaine, and assisting people before, during and
>after treatment etc.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Some people who have been with the Ibogaine movement since it’s
>early stages are about to
>
> believe this list should be used to communicate meaningful
>information on Ibogaine,
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>and
>
>assist
>
>people
>
>
>
>before,
>
>
>
>during
>
>
>
> and after treatment
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> etc.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>I speak now for my self
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> but maybe someone should open a parallel list for the
>
>assisting
>
>people
>
>before,
>
> during
>
> and after treatment
>
>
>
>
>
>so this very important list
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> will continue to serve
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>it’s original purpose – i.e. info on Ibogaine treatments,
>procedures, help on line etc.
>
>
>
>Warm regards
>
>
>
>Boaz Wachtel
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>———————————
>
>
>
>
>
>———————————
> Yahoo! FareChase – Search multiple travel sites in one click.
Concerned about your privacy? Instantly send FREE secure email, no account required
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From: Day Brown <daybrown@artelco.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] obtaining ibogaine
Date: November 4, 2005 at 6:43:52 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Carol Ann wrote:
Day, et al
Do you (or anyone else)  from experience or otherwise, think that  salvia */divinorum/* <http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&hs=W30&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official_s&q=salvia+divinorum&spell=1>   might be a stepping stone for someone who has never encountered a mind altering reality drug.
I’m informed by someone of Native American blood that it is expensive
and ineffective. Perhaps more useful to someone who already knew how
to meditate, and had an appropriate space to use it in. But whatever
you try, it’d be re-assuring to have a spirit guide present, familiar
with the emotional states that sometimes arise from any entheogen.
The impression I get from personal report and
http://www.sagewisdom.org/faq.html
is that the effect wearing off after only 20 minutes would preclude
the kind of trance state you use entheogens for, sufficing only to
familiarize yourself with some of the eidetic and other sensual
aspects.
Certainly, anyone considering the use of an entheogen should be very
worried- the truths that come out of the experience are often those
which have been suppressed because they are so uncomfortable to think
about. but OTOH, as the Greek “Epoptes”, you become one who eyes have
been opened, and life is much more comfortable.
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Erasing memories and its potential for addiction treatment
Date: November 4, 2005 at 5:13:15 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Day Brown wrote >This, of course, smacks of racism, yet somehow, all of
those interested in promoting the use of entheogens fail to see how this
fact can be used to attack the whole repressive legal system.<
Only if we were dealing with rational, logical people I’m afraid Day. One would think this would be so, and more that it would be obvious to more people but we’re not talking about logical and rational thought and behavior here. The “repressive legal system” doesn’t much care about racism when it comes to drug use. It doesn’t care about much of anything when it comes to drug use other than saying “NO.”
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —– From: “Day Brown” <daybrown@artelco.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 1:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Erasing memories and its potential for addiction treatment
Lee Albert wrote:
Hi Day,
I have no wish to convince you of anything. I was trying to add to broaden the discussion drom mental processes to ones affected by a spirit.
wise.
Specifically I was referring to the uncovering of specific traumatic material from ones past.
The past of this life, or a previous?
One thing that Amanita Muscaria and other entheogens do, is reveal some
characteristics of the virtual 3D matrix that passes for ‘reality’. One
more thing entheogens do, is provide some clues as to the script, which
includes Murphy’s laws and other effects that outline the unfolding of
events. Which of course, includes the curious fact that while all the
other shamantic entheogens are illegal, that of the Native Europeans was
left unregulated. This, of course, smacks of racism, yet somehow, all of
those interested in promoting the use of entheogens fail to see how this
fact can be used to attack the whole repressive legal system.
I take this as an example of spiritual or mystical kharma, that I would
exist on such an obviously manipulated world stage. That being the case,
I cant really get my panties in a wad over anything that I see happen,
or what anyone says. I dont see where I have any control over any of it.
I can see where the Buddha, and other illuminati also realize this, and
therefore quit trying to control events, and live in peace. At best, I
can try to get outa the way of great forces. Ever read the Bagavd Gita?
Why should traumatic events of the past disturb your tranquility?
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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] OH TEA: been tried lol
Date: November 4, 2005 at 4:49:12 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Heh, this has been tried, we all are real good for ohhh say 5 seconds/2
emails then we get alllll excited and just start hitting reply reply reply
and the ole subject line gets RERERERERERERER’d tunnsah times.
I still say chat room!!!!
That’s my $2.99…… we don’t have two cents. Or ones. And they getting rid
of 5 cents as well.
We have one and two dollar coins.
Oh. Another topic change lol
OT: money.
Lol
Kirk
—–Original Message—–
From: kiersten johnson [mailto:kiers10@mac.com]
Sent: Saturday, 5 November 2005 10:38 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT regarding list noize
What about this? Let’s all be disciplined about our subject lines and
write “OT regarding a. muscaria” or “OT regarding my broken heart”  or
some such, so that folks can turn down the noise themselves. I
personally have the entire ibogaine list transfered automatically to my
trash, but inevitably go into my unread trash files and read almost
everything that folks write! Except when I don’t.
That’s my two cents.
cheers,
Kiersten
On Nov 3, 2005, at 7:44 AM, Krista Vaughan wrote:
I’m having a hard time agreeing with one group or another, I would
personally prefer if people split up their messages and the ibogaine
list focused more on ibogaine and the group support list was for group
support. Unless I’m wrong ibeganagain is another ibogaine list on
Mindvox along with sacrament, which were all made to split up the
conversations and keep things more on topic.
At the same time nobody posts to those lists and wants to talk to
themselves or they would cc the message to 5 people, they want exactly
what Nick wrote.
I don’t think I’m in a position to tell anyone what to do because I’ve
been here less then a year and in that time it’s kept getting bigger
and bigger and this problem has come up here many times, in less kind
ways, the same 3 people post a load of noise that says nothing much
and maybe helpful as group support for them but isn’t of interest to
most.
I don’t have the answer, only observations. I have loads of respect
for Howard, Patrick, the loads of people this list has helped, the
other side of the opinion that people doing the real work with
ibogaine want all the noise, because it makes it easier for them to
help those who need help more invisibly, the lists in addition to this
one already exist and nobody uses them, I have loads of respect for
you Boaz, you co wrote the ibogaine manual with Howard, I think the
solution has been to block or delete the specific people from this
list you don’t want to hear from and they go away, for you they don’t
exist anymore. Then, those same people who use this list for group
support, post loads of messages about nothing and bury some really
useful advice or info in one of their messages that helps out others.
Only thoughts.
KV
On 11/3/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Trouble is, no one wants to join a list created specifically for
trivial
communications. The excitement is in putting out highly personalized
trivial
bitchy nonsense to everyone, especially people who really don’t want
it.
Personally, I don’t think it’s so terrible. Petty bitchy stuff is OK.
People
can also lighten up a bit or block delete. Or just bitch back, I think
that’s more constructive than just withdrawing.
Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: boaz [mailto:wachtel@shani.net]
Sent: 03 November 2005 06:32
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Um OT……. re: thanks etc etc
I am sorry to say but many of the recent postings on the Ibogaine
list are
hurting the Ibogaine list because of meaningless communications
between few
individuals who should communicate between themselves through private
e
mails.
Some people who have been with the Ibogaine movement since it’s early
stages
are about to quit the list due to its abuse because I and they
believe this
list should be used to communicate meaningful information on
Ibogaine, and
assist people before, during and after treatment  etc.
I speak now for my self but maybe someone should open a parallel list
for
the trivial communications so this very important list will continue
to
serve it’s original purpose – i.e. info on Ibogaine treatments,
procedures,
help on line etc.
Warm regards
Boaz Wachtel
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From: kiersten johnson <kiers10@mac.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT regarding  list noize
Date: November 4, 2005 at 4:38:19 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
What about this? Let’s all be disciplined about our subject lines and write “OT regarding a. muscaria” or “OT regarding my broken heart”  or some such, so that folks can turn down the noise themselves. I personally have the entire ibogaine list transfered automatically to my trash, but inevitably go into my unread trash files and read almost everything that folks write! Except when I don’t.
That’s my two cents.
cheers,
Kiersten
On Nov 3, 2005, at 7:44 AM, Krista Vaughan wrote:
I’m having a hard time agreeing with one group or another, I would
personally prefer if people split up their messages and the ibogaine
list focused more on ibogaine and the group support list was for group
support. Unless I’m wrong ibeganagain is another ibogaine list on
Mindvox along with sacrament, which were all made to split up the
conversations and keep things more on topic.
At the same time nobody posts to those lists and wants to talk to
themselves or they would cc the message to 5 people, they want exactly
what Nick wrote.
I don’t think I’m in a position to tell anyone what to do because I’ve
been here less then a year and in that time it’s kept getting bigger
and bigger and this problem has come up here many times, in less kind
ways, the same 3 people post a load of noise that says nothing much
and maybe helpful as group support for them but isn’t of interest to
most.
I don’t have the answer, only observations. I have loads of respect
for Howard, Patrick, the loads of people this list has helped, the
other side of the opinion that people doing the real work with
ibogaine want all the noise, because it makes it easier for them to
help those who need help more invisibly, the lists in addition to this
one already exist and nobody uses them, I have loads of respect for
you Boaz, you co wrote the ibogaine manual with Howard, I think the
solution has been to block or delete the specific people from this
list you don’t want to hear from and they go away, for you they don’t
exist anymore. Then, those same people who use this list for group
support, post loads of messages about nothing and bury some really
useful advice or info in one of their messages that helps out others.
Only thoughts.
KV
On 11/3/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Trouble is, no one wants to join a list created specifically for trivial
communications. The excitement is in putting out highly personalized trivial
bitchy nonsense to everyone, especially people who really don’t want it.
Personally, I don’t think it’s so terrible. Petty bitchy stuff is OK. People
can also lighten up a bit or block delete. Or just bitch back, I think
that’s more constructive than just withdrawing.
Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: boaz [mailto:wachtel@shani.net]
Sent: 03 November 2005 06:32
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Um OT……. re: thanks etc etc
I am sorry to say but many of the recent postings on the Ibogaine list are
hurting the Ibogaine list because of meaningless communications between few
individuals who should communicate between themselves through private e
mails.
Some people who have been with the Ibogaine movement since it’s early stages
are about to quit the list due to its abuse because I and they believe this
list should be used to communicate meaningful information on Ibogaine, and
assist people before, during and after treatment  etc.
I speak now for my self but maybe someone should open a parallel list for
the trivial communications so this very important list will continue to
serve it’s original purpose – i.e. info on Ibogaine treatments, procedures,
help on line etc.
Warm regards
Boaz Wachtel
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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Um OT……. re: thanks etc etc
Date: November 4, 2005 at 3:22:22 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Ahhh hah, I C !!
I thought you were referring to my computer’s ability to constantly send an
email with attachment out to addresssees, whilst still pretending to sit n
the out box and not go anywhere.  Thus, every time there’s an auto mail
check, the damn thing sends itself again… until… it is deleted from send
box.
I had a scare today….. I got two db error messages!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
But they were to a friend in nz who was trying to send himself an attachment
from here, and it did exactly what I said up there.  Mailbox really is full
lol.
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] A Mind-Bending Head Trip (All Legal)
Date: November 4, 2005 at 3:06:48 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/04/arts/design/04kimm.html?th&emc=th
A Mind-Bending Head Trip (All Legal)
By MICHAEL KIMMELMAN
Published: November 4, 2005
LOS ANGELES – “Ecstasy” is the trippy, messy, highly entertaining survey put together by Paul Schimmel of the Museum of Contemporary Art here. It sprawls through the Geffen Contemporary, the museum’s cavernous warehouse in Little Tokyo, which too often begs for attention but is now jammed with blissed-out mobs.
The show’s title derives from the eponymous recreational empathogen and popular underground mood-lightener officially called MDMA and sometimes prescribed by therapists for post-traumatic stress disorder, Mr. Schimmel informs us in the show’s catalog. The cheeky pharmaceutical peg is a bit of Hollywood salesmanship of the sort he employed 13 years ago when he named a survey about dark, angst-ridden Los Angeles culture “Helter Skelter,” after the Manson murders.
In that case, diverse artists were lumped together under the noir umbrella for the sake of a theme that played off against the cliché of sunny Southern California. The tactic disturbed some less-sibylline types (me, included). But in the long run the show turned out to be uncannily prescient and helped propel several participants (among them, Raymond Pettibon) to global stardom during the 1990’s, in the process opening a few eyes (again, mine included) to the depth of the Los Angeles scene. Mr. Schimmel is a reigning impresario of such trend-making extravaganzas.
“Ecstasy” may invite knee-jerk reactions similar to the ones for “Helter Skelter.” It starts with a dumb joke: a tiered crystal fountain by Klaus Weber, a Berlin artist. The fountain, we’re told, is laced with LSD. (There’s a verifying certificate on the wall.) Mr. Weber imagines enclosing an entire city block, traffic lights and all, in a steel-and-glass pavilion (one-way glass would let people look out but not in), with the burbling fountain as its centerpiece. There’s a model of the pavilion. It’s a kind of symbol for the show as its own rabbit hole.
Nearby, Takashi Murakami’s mural-scale panorama of psychedelic mushrooms beckons alongside Roxy Paine’s “Psilocybe Cubensis Field,” a sculptural re-creation in polymer of hundreds of the same. Visitors can ogle Mr. Murakami’s satiny picture from a cushioned bench that periodically rolls unbidden across the floor. It’s a Candid Camera-like gag by a Danish artist named Jeppe Hein, meant to be mildly mind-bending.
In all, there are 30 artists, most of them familiar to aficionados. For every artist here you might imagine a dozen who could have been, but there’s no claim to completeness. A few works were made for this occasion, most have been exhibited elsewhere. Among the latter is the intended showstopper, Carsten Höller’s “Upside-Down Mushroom Room,” devised in 2000 for the Prada Foundation in Milan. It orchestrates a viewer’s passage through a darkened zigzag corridor into a bright white room where ceiling fluorescents are embedded in the floor and sculptures of humongous red and orange mushrooms (a potent variety) slowly rotate on the ceiling, which is to say, from the upside-down floor.
snip-
Peace and love,
Preston Peet
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: Day Brown <daybrown@artelco.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Erasing memories and its potential for addiction treatment
Date: November 4, 2005 at 1:20:10 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Lee Albert wrote:
Hi Day,
I have no wish to convince you of anything. I was trying to add to broaden the discussion drom mental processes to ones affected by a spirit.
wise.
Specifically I was referring to the uncovering of specific traumatic material from ones past.
The past of this life, or a previous?
One thing that Amanita Muscaria and other entheogens do, is reveal some
characteristics of the virtual 3D matrix that passes for ‘reality’. One
more thing entheogens do, is provide some clues as to the script, which
includes Murphy’s laws and other effects that outline the unfolding of
events. Which of course, includes the curious fact that while all the
other shamantic entheogens are illegal, that of the Native Europeans was
left unregulated. This, of course, smacks of racism, yet somehow, all of
those interested in promoting the use of entheogens fail to see how this
fact can be used to attack the whole repressive legal system.
I take this as an example of spiritual or mystical kharma, that I would
exist on such an obviously manipulated world stage. That being the case,
I cant really get my panties in a wad over anything that I see happen,
or what anyone says. I dont see where I have any control over any of it.
I can see where the Buddha, and other illuminati also realize this, and
therefore quit trying to control events, and live in peace. At best, I
can try to get outa the way of great forces. Ever read the Bagavd Gita?
Why should traumatic events of the past disturb your tranquility?
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From: Day Brown <daybrown@artelco.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Amanita Muscaria…..
Date: November 4, 2005 at 1:07:17 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Kirk wrote:
Hey, just pop over here during mushroom season, I got a ring of em growing
on my front lawn lol
Purdy they are, but my resident Faeries don’t like people pulling em out.
Where are they going to have their picnics if you take their picnic
tables?????
No, I have never taken them, despite the strong evidence saying
otherwise….
I’ve not found A. Muscaria in fairy rings. I have seen Lepiota in fairy
rings; you can tell them from Amanita because altho they both have the
ring around the stem and the same gill structure, the scales on the cap,
as with glucoagaricus, arrange themselves in concentric rings, whereas
the Amanita scales are randomly distributed on the cap.
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From: Day Brown <daybrown@artelco.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] obtaining ibogaine
Date: November 4, 2005 at 12:52:58 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
slowone@hush.ai wrote:
Amanita is said to vary in nature from place to place. http://jlfcatalogue.com is really http://www.jlfcatalog.com/
For what it’s worth, the version I tried (found in nature) was very soporific and seemed to inhibit the muscles that make shitting possible. I’m glad that wasn’t permanent – it went away slowly enough to make me worry, so I never tried the other types I had acquired. I’m curious whether anyone else has observed this effect. I have also read that the toxic dose is relatively close to the interesting one.
I’ve not heard of anyone having aftereffects of any kind. It is not
an opiate, and from what I know of how it works, that is, ingested as
soma with a meat fat, I would not expect constipation. Traditional use
on *just* the new and full moons gives the liver time to process the
muscarine, which would also if there were the kind of digestive effect
you saw, provide enough time to return to normalcy.
Again, ingested as Soma, with the meat fat, there is no record that
Wasson could find of an actual poisoning. Without the fatty alkaloids,
I dont see how there could be a toxic dose.
I’m on a related list: maps_forum@maps.org ; which has some connection
with academia. They are tentatively trying to come to grips with the
use of shamantic entheogens, and trying to figure out how to get the
grant money to do scientific studies of them. Nevertheless, they are
hamstrung by their own mind frame, not having actually used any. They
are like a group of virgins talking about sex, but you mite like to go
to the “Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic studies”, ie:
http://www.maps.org and sign up for their forum.
I see the ibogaine supplier mentioned wont ship to the USA because of
the risk of litigation, which explains the lack of vendors. For most of
us, this makes discussion of Ibogaine interesting, but useless. Amanita
Muscaria does not have that problem. there are several vendors online.
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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] obtaining ibogaine
Date: November 4, 2005 at 11:14:30 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Amanita is said to vary in nature from place to place.
http://jlfcatalogue.com is really http://www.jlfcatalog.com/
For what it’s worth, the version I tried (found in nature) was very
soporific and seemed to inhibit the muscles that make shitting
possible. I’m glad that wasn’t permanent – it went away slowly
enough to make me worry, so I never tried the other types I had
acquired. I’m curious whether anyone else has observed this effect.
I have also read that the toxic dose is relatively close to the
interesting one.
I see JLF also sells human placentas!
On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 22:36:46 -0800 Day Brown <daybrown@artelco.com>
wrote:
I too asked for a vendor of Ibogaine, and googled for it, and
found
none. There is an alternative that is available, and legal:
http://jlfcatalogue.com is one source for Amanita Muscaria. I
just,
as a matter of fact, ordered 60 grams tonite. 53$ incl shipping.
These caveats, besides the voluminous warnings you will see post
at
JLF: According to ethnobotanist RG Wasson, “Persephone’s Quest”,
it
has been a native European shamantic tool for millennia. My own
work
since I read him came across stone carved models of A. Muscaria
found
in the Vinca culture of Romania/Hungary 7000 years ago.
The polka dotted mushroom is ubiquitous in European folk art as
far
back as we can go, and now we have some idea as to why.
The best source is to find it in the woods yourself, but the
season is
over. I’ve seen, and harvested it in the Ozarks, but not seen any
at
all this year. In fact, all toadstools this year have been rare.
Some
of those from JLF come from Oregon and Washington. They also
routinely
have some imported from the Baltic nations and Portugal, and
tonite, I
saw some stock from China- which they say is poor quality.
Prefer the *caps*; these will still have the characteristic
scales, and
if they do, preclude them from being the poisonous Amanita
‘deathcaps’.
While fresh, the reds, browns, oranges, and beige colors are
obvious,
but in the dried samples they will either be dark brown or gray.
(BTW-
I’ve also harvested and dried the deadly Amanita phalloides, and
they
retain their white color)
While I would trust the supply from JLF, if I’m going to, as I
plan,
share them with another, I want to be able to examine the caps and
see the scales myself to be sure no mistake was made. If the
scales
are there, they might be A. Rubescens, or some other edible
variety,
but in any case, harmless.
Several days, or more, prior to ritual use, give acolytes some
small
sample, say the size of the nickel, to make sure that they are
not,
as Wasson warns, allergic. According to Ugarit shamen, who still
use
A. Muscaria in ritual, perhaps 1 person in 10,000 is allergic.
The day before, refrain from the use of alcohol. *ANY* alcohol in
the
system after ingesting A. Muscaria will be sickening, altho not
fatal.
although, the drunks I knew who got into my supply thot they were
going
to die. I could go into the physiological reasons, but take my
word for
it, or on request, I’ll post the details.
I dont know of anyone, either those I shared it with in ritual
over the
last several years, or anyone else who had an adverse reaction
without
also having alcohol in their system; that being said, inasmuch as
it is
a *Native European* shamantic tool, those of that ancestry should
feel
more at ease in their initial use.
Traditionally, it is used on the nites of either the new or full
moon.
We’ve always followed tradition. Granted that A. Muscaria is
listed as
poisonous, and therefore, in that belief, its never been banned.
*BUT*-
“Soma” is not just the *dried* toadstool, but is mixed with an
equal
amount of some animal fat. I’ve used butter. Either slather the
shooms
with butter, or in warm weather, I’ve made shroom smoothies with
cream,
plus whatever fruit you fancy.
Turns out, that the fatty alkaloids in the mushroom which cause
gastric
distress are buffered by the fatty acids of butter, lard, cream,
or
whatever. Ugarit Shamen use reindeer tallow; Brahmins used ghee.
Traditionally, we have also made Pelanos, the sacred Dionysian
bread,
put in the oven at sundown. Pelanos is a yeast bread, half whole
wheat
and have barley. Like Amanita Rubescens, Muscaria stimulates
mucosal
membranes, including the salivary, and certain foods taste great.
Novices should start with a square inch of cap, and eat or drink
the
equivalent again every hour or so until the mental state is
noticeably
different. Unlike recreational drugs, the effect comes on
gradually,
and usually more variable from one person to another, as well as
the
potency of the shooms themselves, which grow wild and respond to
their natural environment unpredictably.
3-9 square inches of cap or the equivalent stem will be sufficient
in
all experiences I have had and seen in others. The transition from
the
normal to the altered state of consciousness is not clearly
defined;
in most cases there is a certain amount of flipping from one to
the
other and back again depending on where you want your attention to
be
at the time.
I’ve never seen a ‘bad trip’ among the dozens of people I have
shared
A. Muscaria with. however, we have always used a remote rural
sacred
site sure that we would not be disturbed by the insanity of what
passes
for civilization. I would not have children present. Not that it
would
be bad for kids to watch, but you dont want adults, trying to
experience
the astral plane, or focus on introspection, to have to worry, as
they
will, about what the kids are up to.
A. Muscaria permits, but does not demand, a kind of tunnel vision
of
the mind’s eye to focus on certain aspects of being. The eidetic
look
of surroundings is like that from other psychedelics, but Muscaria
has
a less frenetic feel emotionally. Another reason I’d avoid urban
sites
is that the senses are sharpened, and the noise and bright lites
found
in urban areas would be annoying. Not that drum, dance, and
recorded or
live music are not enjoyed, but in an isolated location, they will
be
of your own choice. and the lack of them all is conducive to the
kind
of meditation you hope for in ritual at some point anyway.
Expect to be up all nite. So plan the time to nap the next day.
Its nice
to have the quiet time to consider what it has taught you anyway.
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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] obtaining ibogaine
Date: November 4, 2005 at 10:58:05 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Ethnogarden is in Vancouver but I only remember bad reviews of
their product and price. The best-known source of extract is
www.indra.dk
On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 19:00:19 -0800 willie <biognosis@hush.com>
wrote:
hello.  new to the list, so sorry if this question has been asked
already.  it’s just so hard to search thru everything that’s been
posted before.
i live in seattle.  what i’m trying to do is obtain some ibogaine.
not for ‘treatment’ from opiate addiction, but for my wife who is
battling a lot of demons from her childhood right now.  i’ve done
a
lot of research on iboga and we’re both experienced users of
psychedelic drugs.  i think from everything i know that ibogaine
could be very beneficial to her at this point.
i could get to canada easily enough.  what i’m wondering is
whether
there are any specific vendors in vancouver or the area where i
could purchase some root stock or extract.  i’m not really
interested in the hcl salt.  i want all the alkaloids.
as a last resort i could possibly get my sister, who is a canadian
citizen [and also my cover for getting in and out], to let me mail
order some to her house.  this would probably be pretty difficult
for me though, so i’d rather go a more direct route.
thanks for the help -biognosis
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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Um OT……. re: thanks etc etc
Date: November 4, 2005 at 10:57:44 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Kirk, this msg was another case of someone re-including the
picture.
On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 13:53:44 -0800 Morning Wood
<morning_wood263@yahoo.com> wrote:
I think the unsubscribe feature in e-mail should take care of that
problem.
Or <sigh>
<read in a German accent>
You must write your post in a scientific paper templet.  The
author must have at least a 4 year b.s., site all references
correctly and make sure any expressions are legal under current
‘fair use’ law.   Post’s should only come from people of the old
school ibogaine ‘movement’.
So it seems Corny, oh well.
I am sorry to say but many of the recent postings on the Ibogaine
list are hurting the Ibogaine list because of meaningful
information on Ibogaine, and assisting people before, during and
after treatment  etc.
Some people who have been with the Ibogaine movement since it’s
early stages are about to
believe this list should be used to communicate meaningful
information on Ibogaine,
and
assist
people
before,
during
and after treatment
etc.
I speak now for my self
but maybe someone should open a parallel list for the
assisting
people
before,
during
and after treatment
so this very important list
will continue to serve
it’s original purpose – i.e. info on Ibogaine treatments,
procedures, help on line etc.
Warm regards
Boaz Wachtel
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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Erasing memories and its potential for addiction treatment
Date: November 4, 2005 at 10:51:18 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I think this has been endemic as far back as there has been a
society. One current manifestation is the U.S. presence in Iraq,
which has only a fantasy relationship to 9/11.
On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 13:04:50 -0800 Day Brown <daybrown@artelco.com>
wrote:
At the rate of progression, its a moot point whether the political
and economic system wont be hit with some kind of mass hysteria.
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From: Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw:,for Don, from ron (ot) should be off list
Date: November 4, 2005 at 10:51:28 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I didn’t know I was forwarding the attachment, guilty as charged, still in the learning curve as far as newsgroups go. Would be OK by me if the list blocked ALL attachments that aren’t Jpegs. Just a thot…
Bee
slowone@hush.ai wrote:
The immediate culprit was Mark, but others were also including the
attachment in their replies. I didn’t try to make a list of who did
it.
It’s always nice not to get errors 🙂
On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 09:02:42 -0800 Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
wrote:
Was that directed at me???
LOL
TOUCHE!!
Well feel free to come over here and sort out what’s going on with
it cos
buggerd if I know why it keeps sending an email with attachments
over and
over!!!  And its only attachments. I still have gremlins.  But
HEYYYY innit
nice to not be getting any ERROR MESSAGES?????
Lol
;o)
Kirk xx
—–Original Message—–
From: slowone@hush.ai [mailto:slowone@hush.ai]
Sent: Friday, 4 November 2005 5:10 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Fw:,for Don, from ron (ot) should be off
list
It would be nice if people could hold back from sending the same
image over and over.
On Wed, 02 Nov 2005 21:40:15 -0800 Mark Franzeskos
<nsxy1@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
thanks
Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz> wrote:v\:*
{behavior:url(#default#VML);}o\:*
{behavior:url(#default#VML);}w\:*
{behavior:url(#default#VML);}.shape
{behavior:url(#default#VML);}st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui)
}
Heh, I was thinking the same thing!!
Ron.. Check the date on your emails before you reply… I know I
know old age is a bitch complicated by eons of drug taking
melting
most brain matter…so I do understand but try to check ok? Lol
And lol don.. yeh yeh whatever lol j/k
Matt.. yeh he’s doing great! Come on Matt give em all a update!!!
I annoy him on a daily basis to make sure he’s being good
hehhehhe!! Poor bugger!!
Kirk xxx
———————————
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net]
Sent: Thursday, 3 November 2005 6:16 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw:,for Don, from ron (ot) should be off
list
Wow, Ron, that was a week ago, we already hashed this out. I’ll
say it again, you are OK in my book, and it’s nice to see you
talking in complete sentences. Dude, look at your sent box for
the
week before then, you were spewing crap like a Great Dane on a
raisin diet. Nice to have you back, I appreciate your comments
and
you are fun to talk to MOST OF THE TIME. I just thot you needed a
wakeup call, and the motion was supported by others who care
about
you as well. So, SHUT UP the whining and the self degradation,
that crap don’t fly , we are all manipulators here and have not
only seen, but DONE it as well. Just be honest, dood. Stop
beating
yourself up.
One more thing, this is for the room. Remember, WE ARE ALL
dealing
with mood altering chemicals and like it or not, we CAN type when
we CAN’T think. I appreciate the passes I have been given here
for
my outbursts, and I WILL remember your patience. You guys know
who
you are.
What happened to Matt Z.? He Ibo’ed and like fell off the planet,
is he OK?
Bee
Ron Davis wrote:
Don:
you are correct, i do blank out, contribute very little and am a
moron. So where’s the common thread? Us trying to live clean and
being comfortable in doing so.  It’s just a dumb guess.  My humor
or lack of it ain’t for everyone.  It’s a bit too cynical for
guys
like me at times but still i type. i don’t take offense at
potshots ( momma jokes aside) so have at it anytime the urge
strikes. luck to you on your journey and the rest of us.
many die along the way or worse things happen. age and doing the
same old stuff have long since rubbed the point off this dude’s
ego and intellect.  it’s just my way of saying it ain’t fun,
hasn’t been for eons and hope i can get out of this corner i
painted myself into, and i did it all by myself, geeze.  follow
the winners, not the whiners like me. ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Don Patton
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 11:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw: Stick People to Jason attachment not
large I think, bwtfdino exercise caution, I hope I’m getting
better, koko OT
Ron, you’re not really adding anyting to the group, we all got
chairs here, Yours blanks out at times.
Ron Davis wrote:
primitive for all who read or watch, koko. safe to open if space
allows.
—– Original Message —–
To: <
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 8:35 AM
Subject: Stick People
———————————
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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Erasing memories and its potential for addiction treatment
Date: November 4, 2005 at 10:46:45 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Thanks for the computer metaphor for memory. I meant, is the name
“Wrye Sententia” real – but it does seem to represent a real
person.. I expect it was chosen as an adult. My own idea of an
optional name for a woman happens to be ‘Convolutia’, but that’s
just me, as it were. 🙂
“As a director of the CCLE [The Center for Cognitive Liberty &
Ethics], puckish and brilliant Wrye Sententia oversees projects
that aim to focus public attention on cognitive technologies in
relation to individual rights of mind (neuroethics), as well as
drawing attention to neuroethical concerns about trends in
psychopharmacology and related cognitive neuroscience fields. She
is currently completing her Ph.D. at the University of California,
Davis.”
Hi Wrye, if you’re reading this 🙂
On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 11:30:29 -0800 Day Brown <daybrown@artelco.com>
wrote:
slowone@hush.ai wrote:
The centre’s mission, says its director, *Dr Wrye Sententia,*
Is this for real?
yes. Memory works like RAM; it is *rewritten* every time it is
accessed. which is why as well, when you have witnesses go over
what they think they saw, they will add details that never were
there in the first place. They try to create less chaotic, more
organized images that are easier, from the standpoint of
compression algorithms, to store.
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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Fw:,for Don, from ron (ot) should be off list
Date: November 4, 2005 at 10:30:10 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
The immediate culprit was Mark, but others were also including the
attachment in their replies. I didn’t try to make a list of who did
it.
It’s always nice not to get errors 🙂
On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 09:02:42 -0800 Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
wrote:
Was that directed at me???
LOL
TOUCHE!!
Well feel free to come over here and sort out what’s going on with
it cos
buggerd if I know why it keeps sending an email with attachments
over and
over!!!  And its only attachments. I still have gremlins.  But
HEYYYY innit
nice to not be getting any ERROR MESSAGES?????
Lol
;o)
Kirk xx
—–Original Message—–
From: slowone@hush.ai [mailto:slowone@hush.ai]
Sent: Friday, 4 November 2005 5:10 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Fw:,for Don, from ron (ot) should be off
list
It would be nice if people could hold back from sending the same
image over and over.
On Wed, 02 Nov 2005 21:40:15 -0800 Mark Franzeskos
<nsxy1@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
thanks
Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz> wrote:v\:*
{behavior:url(#default#VML);}o\:*
{behavior:url(#default#VML);}w\:*
{behavior:url(#default#VML);}.shape
{behavior:url(#default#VML);}st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui)
}
Heh, I was thinking the same thing!!
Ron.. Check the date on your emails before you reply… I know I
know old age is a bitch complicated by eons of drug taking
melting
most brain matter…so I do understand but try to check ok? Lol
And lol don.. yeh yeh whatever lol j/k
Matt.. yeh he’s doing great! Come on Matt give em all a update!!!
I annoy him on a daily basis to make sure he’s being good
hehhehhe!! Poor bugger!!
Kirk xxx
———————————
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net]
Sent: Thursday, 3 November 2005 6:16 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw:,for Don, from ron (ot) should be off
list
Wow, Ron, that was a week ago, we already hashed this out. I’ll
say it again, you are OK in my book, and it’s nice to see you
talking in complete sentences. Dude, look at your sent box for
the
week before then, you were spewing crap like a Great Dane on a
raisin diet. Nice to have you back, I appreciate your comments
and
you are fun to talk to MOST OF THE TIME. I just thot you needed a
wakeup call, and the motion was supported by others who care
about
you as well. So, SHUT UP the whining and the self degradation,
that crap don’t fly , we are all manipulators here and have not
only seen, but DONE it as well. Just be honest, dood. Stop
beating
yourself up.
One more thing, this is for the room. Remember, WE ARE ALL
dealing
with mood altering chemicals and like it or not, we CAN type when
we CAN’T think. I appreciate the passes I have been given here
for
my outbursts, and I WILL remember your patience. You guys know
who
you are.
What happened to Matt Z.? He Ibo’ed and like fell off the planet,
is he OK?
Bee
Ron Davis wrote:
Don:
you are correct, i do blank out, contribute very little and am a
moron. So where’s the common thread? Us trying to live clean and
being comfortable in doing so.  It’s just a dumb guess.  My humor
or lack of it ain’t for everyone.  It’s a bit too cynical for
guys
like me at times but still i type. i don’t take offense at
potshots ( momma jokes aside) so have at it anytime the urge
strikes. luck to you on your journey and the rest of us.
many die along the way or worse things happen. age and doing the
same old stuff have long since rubbed the point off this dude’s
ego and intellect.  it’s just my way of saying it ain’t fun,
hasn’t been for eons and hope i can get out of this corner i
painted myself into, and i did it all by myself, geeze.  follow
the winners, not the whiners like me. ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Don Patton
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 11:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw: Stick People to Jason attachment not
large I think, bwtfdino exercise caution, I hope I’m getting
better, koko OT
Ron, you’re not really adding anyting to the group, we all got
chairs here, Yours blanks out at times.
Ron Davis wrote:
primitive for all who read or watch, koko. safe to open if space
allows.
—– Original Message —–
To: <
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 8:35 AM
Subject: Stick People
———————————
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From: Carol Ann <saffireskyes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] obtaining ibogaine
Date: November 4, 2005 at 8:44:13 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Day, et al
Do you (or anyone else)  from experience or otherwise, think that  salvia divinorum   might be a stepping stone for someone who has never encountered a mind altering reality drug.
I am interested in ordering some but there are soo many vendors on the Internet, I wouldnt know where to begin placing an order.  Any thoughts or good references would be appreciated.
Carol Ann
Day Brown <daybrown@artelco.com> wrote:
I too asked for a vendor of Ibogaine, and googled for it, and found
none. There is an alternative that is available, and legal:
http://jlfcatalogue.com is one source for Amanita Muscaria. I just,
as a matter of fact, ordered 60 grams tonite. 53$ incl shipping.
These caveats, besides the voluminous warnings you will see post at
JLF: According to ethnobotanist RG Wasson, “Persephone’s Quest”, it
has been a native European shamantic tool for millennia. My own work
since I read him came across stone carved models of A. Muscaria found
in the Vinca culture of Romania/Hungary 7000 years ago.
The polka dotted mushroom is ubiquitous in European folk art as far
back as we can go, and now we have some idea as to why.
The best source is to find it in the woods yourself, but the season is
over. I’ve seen, and harvested it in the Ozarks, but not seen any at
all this year. In fact, all toadstools this year have been rare. Some
of those from JLF come from Oregon and Washington. They also routinely
have some imported from the Baltic nations and Portugal, and tonite, I
saw some stock from China- which they say is poor quality.
Prefer the *caps*; these will still have the characteristic scales, and
if they do, preclude them from being the poisonous Amanita ‘deathcaps’.
While fresh, the reds, browns, oranges, and beige colors are obvious,
but in the dried samples they will either be dark brown or gray. (BTW-
I’ve also harvested and dried the deadly Amanita phalloides, and they
retain their white color)
While I would trust the supply from JLF, if I’m going to, as I plan,
share them with another, I want to be able to examine the caps and
see the scales myself to be sure no mistake was made. If the scales
are there, they might be A. Rubescens, or some other edible variety,
but in any case, harmless.
Several days, or more, prior to ritual use, give acolytes some small
sample, say the size of the nickel, to make sure that they are not,
as Wasson warns, allergic. According to Ugarit shamen, who still use
A. Muscaria in ritual, perhaps 1 person in 10,000 is allergic.
The day before, refrain from the use of alcohol. *ANY* alcohol in the
system after ingesting A. Muscaria will be sickening, altho not fatal.
although, the drunks I knew who got into my supply thot they were going
to die. I could go into the physiological reasons, but take my word for
it, or on request, I’ll post the details.
I dont know of anyone, either those I shared it with in ritual over the
last several years, or anyone else who had an adverse reaction without
also having alcohol in their system; that being said, inasmuch as it is
a *Native European* shamantic tool, those of that ancestry should feel
more at ease in their initial use.
Traditionally, it is used on the nites of either the new or full moon.
We’ve always followed tradition. Granted that A. Muscaria is listed as
poisonous, and therefore, in that belief, its never been banned. *BUT*-
“Soma” is not just the *dried* toadstool, but is mixed with an equal
amount of some animal fat. I’ve used butter. Either slather the shooms
with butter, or in warm weather, I’ve made shroom smoothies with cream,
plus whatever fruit you fancy.
Turns out, that the fatty alkaloids in the mushroom which cause gastric
distress are buffered by the fatty acids of butter, lard, cream, or
whatever. Ugarit Shamen use reindeer tallow; Brahmins used ghee.
Traditionally, we have also made Pelanos, the sacred Dionysian bread,
put in the oven at sundown. Pelanos is a yeast bread, half whole wheat
and have barley. Like Amanita Rubescens, Muscaria stimulates mucosal
membranes, including the salivary, and certain foods taste great.
Novices should start with a square inch of cap, and eat or drink the
equivalent again every hour or so until the mental state is noticeably
different. Unlike recreational drugs, the effect comes on gradually,
and usually more variable from one person to another, as well as the
potency of the shooms themselves, which grow wild and respond to
their natural environment unpredictably.
3-9 square inches of cap or the equivalent stem will be sufficient in
all experiences I have had and seen in others. The transition from the
normal to the altered state of consciousness is not clearly defined;
in most cases there is a certain amount of flipping from one to the
other and back again depending on where you want your attention to be
at the time.
I’ve never seen a ‘bad trip’ among the dozens of people I have shared
A. Muscaria with. however, we have always used a remote rural sacred
site sure that we would not be disturbed by the insanity of what passes
for civilization. I would not have children present. Not that it would
be bad for kids to watch, but you dont want adults, trying to experience
the astral plane, or focus on introspection, to have to worry, as they
will, about what the kids are up to.
A. Muscaria permits, but does not demand, a kind of tunnel vision of
the mind’s eye to focus on certain aspects of being. The eidetic look
of surroundings is like that from other psychedelics, but Muscaria has
a less frenetic feel emotionally. Another reason I’d avoid urban sites
is that the senses are sharpened, and the noise and bright lites found
in urban areas would be annoying. Not that drum, dance, and recorded or
live music are not enjoyed, but in an isolated location, they will be
of your own choice. and the lack of them all is conducive to the kind
of meditation you hope for in ritual at some point anyway.
Expect to be up all nite. So plan the time to nap the next day. Its nice
to have the quiet time to consider what it has taught you anyway.
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
Best regards,
Carol
_______________________________
Never Accept Only Two Choices in Life.
The problems of Today cannot be solved by the same thinking that created them.
-Al Einstein.
Yahoo! FareChase – Search multiple travel sites in one click.
From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Um OT……. re: thanks etc etc
Date: November 4, 2005 at 7:27:14 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
“Here is the messianic loonies list, Lee is in charge of it even if he
has mellowed out lately. Add more names or go join Lee’s personal world
where he has started his own moderated list where he decides what
people are allowed to say. His list includes him and almost nobody
else. Subjects are controlled, messages are controlled, almost nobody
cares, I wonder why. Lee this is your cue to protest for 10 paragraphs.
Please don’t disappoint the audience.”
Hi Vector,
LOL!!!
Given that I did not take the bate the last type you steoreotyped me I would not want to disappoint you once more even if your last sentence adds a sting to the reply. So heres my reply.
It’s interesting to read your satire on folk. I find it very informative for myself as my emotional reaction is somewhat mute and that is very encouraging to me. When I first joined this list I was reactive (among other things) and have in the past year or so taken those reactions (and other things) into my mini-sessions and resolved quite a number of things. (Basically what I am saying is eboga works regardless of what you may think of the person. And that is what gives me reason to be happy. So anyone out there interested in personal healing for specific traumas, sexual or otherwise take note.)
As for the personal world of Lee, I am not sure. You would have to have a constructive engagement with those on that list to decide. I know I am not perfect but I do try and keep some distance between my own perspectives and others on the list so as to allow a useful and constructive interchange. I guess if people were to start shitting on one another I would not be all for it as I don’t see the healing in that personally. A safe environment is something i would be in favor off.
The list itself was set up to offer support among those seriously seeking real inner change via eboga, among other things. As far as controlling the conversation. People can discuss what they want (the doormat encourages a particular orientation like any list) but if someone wants to engage me personally in an endless or repetitive discussion that I find draining/pointless or unnecessarily repetitive, then forgive me if I find an exit. (I will try and be as curteous as possible.) Thats my choice like anyone else on the list. I am human after all. Personally I have never interrupted a conversation between people to put an end to it but I have on one occasion taken issue with someone who was posting personal and libelous material.
I will try and not fall into the trap of judging you. You know yourself best of all and your motives for the things you write. I wish you well.
This thing about messianic trips. I am not sure if I quite understand it.
I grew up in a country where all my life growing up I watched in the news people being killed in the most horrific fashion. People just a few miles from where I lived. Luckily I was on the other side of the border. I also observed people I loved “deeply” have their lives ruined and watched my own life being ruined. So for me the way of healing has been a choice (perhaps the only choice) to try and rise above the shit. I have observed and experienced the detrimental effects of sexual abuse, emotional abuse and mind control.
So now I find myself having had personal success with ibogaine/eboga and wishing to be a part of its growth for the healing of others who seek it.
Like anything else we learn by our mistakes and if someone is truely seeking healing they will not be looking to make a list of the human frailties of the one who offers help but will look (imo) past all that at the genuine things the one who offers help has to offer. Hopefully people will forgive me my foibles from time to time and see that there is a thread of honesty and genuineness behind what I try to do. At the moment of healing Lee Albert, Vector Vector, etc…. mean nothing and for me its that woment that counts.
I am a soul, like many, who is struggling to arrive in a good place and also to help in some way others that may be interested in this possibility. Is that the definition of messianic?
If it is, would you please be kind enough to enlighten me so I can learn and improve in the work I aspire to do?
I promise you, any constructive criticism will be explored “under the influence” of eboga.
Many thanks,
Lee
PS Sorry I went over the 10 paragraphs 🙂
PPS Thanks Boaz for a very informative post you made a year ago re: monitoring blood pressure and establishing a baseline beforehand. That kind of post may actually save a life.
And Dana, thanks for spending an hour with me on the phone educating me about the circumstances around certain fatalities. Your work makes a difference. Thanks to Howard and others also on the same note.
Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com> wrote:
Have to agree with Morning Wood here Boaz, with no disrespect to you
and all that you’ve done. Nick Sandberg probably had the funniest and
most concise explanation of how people read this list, at least it
resembles how I read it 😉
The best filter ever invented, it’s called your brain. When you don’t
have alot of time, you only click on the posts from people you want to
hear from. I will save everyone the effort and list them for you here,
it’s the old school I’ve been here over 5 years and in some cases 20
years crowd 😉 If the poster is Howard Lotsof, Patrick Kroupa,
Schmoolyboy, You Boaz Wachtel, Nick Sandberg and Sara Glatt who should
be read alot 😉 and 15 more favorites, then put them into Important
List. Even simpler, check the speakers at every ibogaine conference in
the last 5 years on mindvox or ibogaine.org, if it’s not from one of
them, then delete email right away because its worthless and the person
has no business saying anything.
Here is the messianic loonies list, Lee is in charge of it even if he
has mellowed out lately. Add more names or go join Lee’s personal world
where he has started his own moderated list where he decides what
people are allowed to say. His list includes him and almost nobody
else. Subjects are controlled, messages are controlled, almost nobody
cares, I wonder why. Lee this is your cue to protest for 10 paragraphs.
Please don’t disappoint the audience.
Here are the chatty people who never shut up and talk about nothing
that has anything to do with ibogaine 99% of the time and generate
2/3rds of all messages ever posted here. I won’t list the names, but
you know who you are! 🙂
Here are new people who need help and want to talk about recovery and
understand more about ibogaine. Once signed on here they either love it
to death and have found home, or need more benzos or another drink.
None of them can figure out how to unsubscribe in spite of the fact
that their rant is always followed by the ibogaine list, commands URL.
Here are the people who want to complain about everything and that’s
mostly all they do.
There’s the Sacrament list: sacrament-subscribe@mindvox.com and the
after ibogaine list, ibeganagain-subscribe@mindvox.com. Nobody ever
says anything on either list, because they all want to dump it here
exactly like Nick said.
Dana Beal has his own special category. He’s hard to contain.
There it’s all sorted for you.
Except if there were filters nobody would ever read any of my messages
and i’d be stuck in a room playing cards with Morning Wood. Doesn’t
sound bad actually. You play poker?
Boaz, why don’t you do what I do and what I think nearly everyone does
and what Nick first articulated. You know you want to hear from 10 or
15 people, it’s not PC to say so, but just admit it, so read their
messages and ignore the rest. If you have more free time and want to
talk, rant, or whatnot, then read more. I do give you mad props, but
it’s not like you personally have ever written more then 50 messages to
this list in 5 years. Can’t say any one of them was a great revelation
either, no offense, I’ve posted probably 500 and only maybe 20 were
really important and worth reading. So shoot me, making gestapo salute.
Having the ibogaine list go from low traffic and the usual ibogaine
crowd, to thousands of people who may not contribute alot of knowledge
but at least are interested in ibogaine and aware that it exists, isn’t
what I would call a big loss or anything to complain about.
.:vector:.
— Morning Wood wrote:
> I think the unsubscribe feature in e-mail should take care of that
> problem.
>
> Or
>
> You must write your post in a scientific paper templet. The author
> must have at least a 4 year b.s., site all references correctly and
> make sure any expressions are legal under current ‘fair use’ law.
> Post’s should only come from people of the old school ibogaine
> ‘movement’.
>
>
> So it seems Corny, oh well.
>
>
>
>
>
> I am sorry to say but many of the recent postings on the Ibogaine
> list are hurting the Ibogaine list because of meaningful information
> on Ibogaine, and assisting people before, during and after treatment
> etc.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Some people who have been with the Ibogaine movement since it’s early
> stages are about to
>
> believe this list should be used to communicate meaningful
> information on Ibogaine,
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> and
>
> assist
>
> people
>
>
>
> before,
>
>
>
> during
>
>
>
> and after treatment
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> etc.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I speak now for my self
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> but maybe someone should open a parallel list for the
>
> assisting
>
> people
>
> before,
>
> during
>
> and after treatment
>
>
>
>
>
> so this very important list
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> will continue to serve
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> it’s original purpose – i.e. info on Ibogaine treatments, procedures,
> help on line etc.
>
>
>
> Warm regards
>
>
>
> Boaz Wachtel
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ———————————
>
>
>
>
>
> ———————————
> Yahoo! FareChase – Search multiple travel sites in one click.
__________________________________
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Erasing memories and its potential for addiction treatment
Date: November 4, 2005 at 6:07:25 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Day,
I have no wish to convince you of anything. I was trying to add to broaden the discussion drom mental processes to ones affected by a spirit.
Specifically I was referring to the uncovering of specific traumatic material from ones past.
Anyway, all the best to you.
Lee
Day Brown <daybrown@artelco.com> wrote:
Lee Albert wrote:
> Which is why the memories one sees with eboga are for real. They come
> imo via the spirit.
> But, beware of the future!
Anyone who has read history has to be wary. Of course, by the time
you’ve read as much history as I have, you dont have that much future
left to worry about.
As for the reality of memory- whatever else it is, it is a pattern in
the mind; eboga or any other drug can change the patterns. I have no
opinion on to what extent, if any, the spirit is involved. If it works
for you, that’s all it hasta do. There’s no need to convince me that
it worked for you, or that it would for me.
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
From: sara119@xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Erasing memories and its potential for addiction  treatment
Date: November 4, 2005 at 5:31:02 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Lee Albert wrote:
Which is why the memories one sees with eboga are for real. They come
imo via the spirit.
But, beware of the future!
Anyone who has read history has to be wary. Of course, by the time
you’ve read as much history as I have, you dont have that much future
left to worry about.
As for the reality of memory- whatever else it is, it is a pattern in
the mind; eboga or any other drug can change the patterns. I have no
opinion on to what extent, if any, the spirit is involved. If it works
for you, that’s all it hasta do. There’s no need to convince me that
it worked for you, or that it would for me.
it looks likes a total chaos, what patterns? from earth to earth that is
all that is sure a pattern recycling of the material, that will not
change. the change is due to an insight,a person who experiences “the love
of the spirit” during an experience, “healing” what ever you like to name
it… will NOT change from being an selfish asshole power tripper to a
loving kindness tripper…
who shows respect and valiue to other peoples realities, it is all a trip
but some can make their trip easier by not holding on to a lot of nonsense
but letting that go without the need to express it in public before
regrets.
last session with a person few weeks back, we took together a dose and
spend all night talking and listening to eachother memories, we couldn’t
understand what’s the point was of holding on to all that info. from years
back, why it come up during the session and how do we relate to that info.
right now. we came up with… it is a “chaos” and with our intelligence
find the middle way, (the balance within each day), which is easier to
find when there is no one else to blame “it”on(the addiction, the pain,
the lust,the happiness).
 /]=———————————————————————=[\
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[%]
 \]=———————————————————————=[/
 /]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: Day Brown <daybrown@artelco.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Erasing memories and its potential for addiction treatment
Date: November 4, 2005 at 1:52:53 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Lee Albert wrote:
Which is why the memories one sees with eboga are for real. They come imo via the spirit.
But, beware of the future!
Anyone who has read history has to be wary. Of course, by the time
you’ve read as much history as I have, you dont have that much future
left to worry about.
As for the reality of memory- whatever else it is, it is a pattern in
the mind; eboga or any other drug can change the patterns. I have no
opinion on to what extent, if any, the spirit is involved. If it works
for you, that’s all it hasta do. There’s no need to convince me that
it worked for you, or that it would for me.
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
From: Day Brown <daybrown@artelco.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Erasing memories and its potential for addiction treatment
Date: November 4, 2005 at 1:47:11 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Vector Vector wrote:
Day I know from years of reading the Vox list how much you like to
complain about the state of the world from a people who have a 300 IQ
and like to be dominated by women perspective, but a small reality
check. Nobody wants to sell you ibogaine and ship it to the US, isn’t
the same thing as saying it’s not available.
I dont have any complaint personally. My life is quite pleasant, if and
life gets unpleasant, I’ve had more than my share, and would not mind
not living any more.
And au contraire. The alternative to having men rule is to put women in
positions where they can *share* power rather than constantly trying to
concentrate it. Nor is an unusually high IQ needed. Simply being sane
and rational with the time to think is sufficient. You get some idea of
this from the ancient sages, who didnt think fast, but did think long.
IQ is a timed test. Wisdom is not. It is timeless.
Surfing shows Ibogaine available in clinical settings. Which may be. I
dont feel the need to go that far. I’ve had experience with lotsa other
entheogens, and simply wanted to try Ibogaine in ritual. If the supply
is limited for the benefit of those in acute psychological distress, I
certainly would not want any wasted on me.
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Amanita Muscaria…..
Date: November 4, 2005 at 12:51:00 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hey, just pop over here during mushroom season, I got a ring of em growing
on my front lawn lol
Purdy they are, but my resident Faeries don’t like people pulling em out.
Where are they going to have their picnics if you take their picnic
tables?????
No, I have never taken them, despite the strong evidence saying
otherwise….
:oP
Kirky
—–Original Message—–
From: Day Brown [mailto:daybrown@artelco.com]
Sent: Friday, 4 November 2005 7:37 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] obtaining ibogaine
I too asked for a vendor of Ibogaine, and googled for it, and found
none. There is an alternative that is available, and legal:
http://jlfcatalogue.com is one source for Amanita Muscaria. I just,
as a matter of fact, ordered 60 grams tonite. 53$ incl shipping.
These caveats, besides the voluminous warnings you will see post at
JLF: According to ethnobotanist RG Wasson, “Persephone’s Quest”, it
has been a native European shamantic tool for millennia. My own work
since I read him came across stone carved models of A. Muscaria found
in the Vinca culture of Romania/Hungary 7000 years ago.
The polka dotted mushroom is ubiquitous in European folk art as far
back as we can go, and now we have some idea as to why.
The best source is to find it in the woods yourself, but the season is
over. I’ve seen, and harvested it in the Ozarks, but not seen any at
all this year. In fact, all toadstools this year have been rare. Some
of those from JLF come from Oregon and Washington. They also routinely
have some imported from the Baltic nations and Portugal, and tonite, I
saw some stock from China- which they say is poor quality.
Prefer the *caps*; these will still have the characteristic scales, and
if they do, preclude them from being the poisonous Amanita ‘deathcaps’.
While fresh, the reds, browns, oranges, and beige colors are obvious,
but in the dried samples they will either be dark brown or gray. (BTW-
I’ve also harvested and dried the deadly Amanita phalloides, and they
retain their white color)
While I would trust the supply from JLF, if I’m going to, as I plan,
share them with another, I want to be able to examine the caps and
see the scales myself to be sure no mistake was made. If the scales
are there, they might be A. Rubescens, or some other edible variety,
but in any case, harmless.
Several days, or more, prior to ritual use, give acolytes some small
sample, say the size of the nickel, to make sure that they are not,
as Wasson warns, allergic. According to Ugarit shamen, who still use
A. Muscaria in ritual, perhaps 1 person in 10,000 is allergic.
The day before, refrain from the use of alcohol. *ANY* alcohol in the
system after ingesting A. Muscaria will be sickening, altho not fatal.
although, the drunks I knew who got into my supply thot they were going
to die. I could go into the physiological reasons, but take my word for
it, or on request, I’ll post the details.
I dont know of anyone, either those I shared it with in ritual over the
last several years, or anyone else who had an adverse reaction without
also having alcohol in their system; that being said, inasmuch as it is
a *Native European* shamantic tool, those of that ancestry should feel
more at ease in their initial use.
Traditionally, it is used on the nites of either the new or full moon.
We’ve always followed tradition. Granted that A. Muscaria is listed as
poisonous, and therefore, in that belief, its never been banned. *BUT*-
“Soma” is not just the *dried* toadstool, but is mixed with an equal
amount of some animal fat. I’ve used butter. Either slather the shooms
with butter, or in warm weather, I’ve made shroom smoothies with cream,
plus whatever fruit you fancy.
Turns out, that the fatty alkaloids in the mushroom which cause gastric
distress are buffered by the fatty acids of butter, lard, cream, or
whatever. Ugarit Shamen use reindeer tallow; Brahmins used ghee.
Traditionally, we have also made Pelanos, the sacred Dionysian bread,
put in the oven at sundown. Pelanos is a yeast bread, half whole wheat
and have barley. Like Amanita Rubescens, Muscaria stimulates mucosal
membranes, including the salivary, and certain foods taste great.
Novices should start with a square inch of cap, and eat or drink the
equivalent again every hour or so until the mental state is noticeably
different. Unlike recreational drugs, the effect comes on gradually,
and usually more variable from one person to another, as well as the
potency of the shooms themselves, which grow wild and respond to
their natural environment unpredictably.
3-9 square inches of cap or the equivalent stem will be sufficient in
all experiences I have had and seen in others. The transition from the
normal to the altered state of consciousness is not clearly defined;
in most cases there is a certain amount of flipping from one to the
other and back again depending on where you want your attention to be
at the time.
I’ve never seen a ‘bad trip’ among the dozens of people I have shared
A. Muscaria with. however, we have always used a remote rural sacred
site sure that we would not be disturbed by the insanity of what passes
for civilization. I would not have children present. Not that it would
be bad for kids to watch, but you dont want adults, trying to experience
the astral plane, or focus on introspection, to have to worry, as they
will, about what the kids are up to.
A. Muscaria permits, but does not demand, a kind of tunnel vision of
the mind’s eye to focus on certain aspects of being. The eidetic look
of surroundings is like that from other psychedelics, but Muscaria has
a less frenetic feel emotionally. Another reason I’d avoid urban sites
is that the senses are sharpened, and the noise and bright lites found
in urban areas would be annoying. Not that drum, dance, and recorded or
live music are not enjoyed, but in an isolated location, they will be
of your own choice. and the lack of them all is conducive to the kind
of meditation you hope for in ritual at some point anyway.
Expect to be up all nite. So plan the time to nap the next day. Its nice
to have the quiet time to consider what it has taught you anyway.
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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[%]
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From: Day Brown <daybrown@artelco.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] obtaining ibogaine
Date: November 4, 2005 at 1:36:46 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I too asked for a vendor of Ibogaine, and googled for it, and found
none. There is an alternative that is available, and legal:
http://jlfcatalogue.com is one source for Amanita Muscaria. I just,
as a matter of fact, ordered 60 grams tonite. 53$ incl shipping.
These caveats, besides the voluminous warnings you will see post at
JLF: According to ethnobotanist RG Wasson, “Persephone’s Quest”, it
has been a native European shamantic tool for millennia. My own work
since I read him came across stone carved models of A. Muscaria found
in the Vinca culture of Romania/Hungary 7000 years ago.
The polka dotted mushroom is ubiquitous in European folk art as far
back as we can go, and now we have some idea as to why.
The best source is to find it in the woods yourself, but the season is
over. I’ve seen, and harvested it in the Ozarks, but not seen any at
all this year. In fact, all toadstools this year have been rare. Some
of those from JLF come from Oregon and Washington. They also routinely
have some imported from the Baltic nations and Portugal, and tonite, I
saw some stock from China- which they say is poor quality.
Prefer the *caps*; these will still have the characteristic scales, and
if they do, preclude them from being the poisonous Amanita ‘deathcaps’.
While fresh, the reds, browns, oranges, and beige colors are obvious,
but in the dried samples they will either be dark brown or gray. (BTW-
I’ve also harvested and dried the deadly Amanita phalloides, and they
retain their white color)
While I would trust the supply from JLF, if I’m going to, as I plan,
share them with another, I want to be able to examine the caps and
see the scales myself to be sure no mistake was made. If the scales
are there, they might be A. Rubescens, or some other edible variety,
but in any case, harmless.
Several days, or more, prior to ritual use, give acolytes some small
sample, say the size of the nickel, to make sure that they are not,
as Wasson warns, allergic. According to Ugarit shamen, who still use
A. Muscaria in ritual, perhaps 1 person in 10,000 is allergic.
The day before, refrain from the use of alcohol. *ANY* alcohol in the
system after ingesting A. Muscaria will be sickening, altho not fatal.
although, the drunks I knew who got into my supply thot they were going
to die. I could go into the physiological reasons, but take my word for
it, or on request, I’ll post the details.
I dont know of anyone, either those I shared it with in ritual over the
last several years, or anyone else who had an adverse reaction without
also having alcohol in their system; that being said, inasmuch as it is
a *Native European* shamantic tool, those of that ancestry should feel
more at ease in their initial use.
Traditionally, it is used on the nites of either the new or full moon.
We’ve always followed tradition. Granted that A. Muscaria is listed as
poisonous, and therefore, in that belief, its never been banned. *BUT*-
“Soma” is not just the *dried* toadstool, but is mixed with an equal
amount of some animal fat. I’ve used butter. Either slather the shooms
with butter, or in warm weather, I’ve made shroom smoothies with cream,
plus whatever fruit you fancy.
Turns out, that the fatty alkaloids in the mushroom which cause gastric
distress are buffered by the fatty acids of butter, lard, cream, or
whatever. Ugarit Shamen use reindeer tallow; Brahmins used ghee.
Traditionally, we have also made Pelanos, the sacred Dionysian bread,
put in the oven at sundown. Pelanos is a yeast bread, half whole wheat
and have barley. Like Amanita Rubescens, Muscaria stimulates mucosal
membranes, including the salivary, and certain foods taste great.
Novices should start with a square inch of cap, and eat or drink the
equivalent again every hour or so until the mental state is noticeably
different. Unlike recreational drugs, the effect comes on gradually,
and usually more variable from one person to another, as well as the
potency of the shooms themselves, which grow wild and respond to
their natural environment unpredictably.
3-9 square inches of cap or the equivalent stem will be sufficient in
all experiences I have had and seen in others. The transition from the
normal to the altered state of consciousness is not clearly defined;
in most cases there is a certain amount of flipping from one to the
other and back again depending on where you want your attention to be
at the time.
I’ve never seen a ‘bad trip’ among the dozens of people I have shared
A. Muscaria with. however, we have always used a remote rural sacred
site sure that we would not be disturbed by the insanity of what passes
for civilization. I would not have children present. Not that it would
be bad for kids to watch, but you dont want adults, trying to experience
the astral plane, or focus on introspection, to have to worry, as they
will, about what the kids are up to.
A. Muscaria permits, but does not demand, a kind of tunnel vision of
the mind’s eye to focus on certain aspects of being. The eidetic look
of surroundings is like that from other psychedelics, but Muscaria has
a less frenetic feel emotionally. Another reason I’d avoid urban sites
is that the senses are sharpened, and the noise and bright lites found
in urban areas would be annoying. Not that drum, dance, and recorded or
live music are not enjoyed, but in an isolated location, they will be
of your own choice. and the lack of them all is conducive to the kind
of meditation you hope for in ritual at some point anyway.
Expect to be up all nite. So plan the time to nap the next day. Its nice
to have the quiet time to consider what it has taught you anyway.
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] more specific please
Date: November 3, 2005 at 10:48:12 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
” the same 3 people post a load of noise that says nothing much
and maybe helpful as group support for them but isn’t of interest to
most.”
“because of meaningless communications between few
 individuals who should communicate between themselves through private e mails.”
Am I one of the people or individuals you guys feel post insignificant dribble? I am assuming so as I suppose other frequent posters are assuming that you are talking about them as well. So, would you mind being more specific in the individuals who you feel are posting inappropriately? More specific by calling names instead of assuming? We are all adults here. I know I had rather you tell me than to always wonder if I am about to post something inappropriate.
Peace, Callie
From: “willie” <biognosis@hush.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] obtaining ibogaine
Date: November 3, 2005 at 10:00:19 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
hello.  new to the list, so sorry if this question has been asked
already.  it’s just so hard to search thru everything that’s been
posted before.
i live in seattle.  what i’m trying to do is obtain some ibogaine.
not for ‘treatment’ from opiate addiction, but for my wife who is
battling a lot of demons from her childhood right now.  i’ve done a
lot of research on iboga and we’re both experienced users of
psychedelic drugs.  i think from everything i know that ibogaine
could be very beneficial to her at this point.
i could get to canada easily enough.  what i’m wondering is whether
there are any specific vendors in vancouver or the area where i
could purchase some root stock or extract.  i’m not really
interested in the hcl salt.  i want all the alkaloids.
as a last resort i could possibly get my sister, who is a canadian
citizen [and also my cover for getting in and out], to let me mail
order some to her house.  this would probably be pretty difficult
for me though, so i’d rather go a more direct route.
thanks for the help -biognosis
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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Erasing memories and its potential for addiction treatment
Date: November 3, 2005 at 5:45:15 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Day I know from years of reading the Vox list how much you like to
complain about the state of the world from a people who have a 300 IQ
and like to be dominated by women perspective, but a small reality
check. Nobody wants to sell you ibogaine and ship it to the US, isn’t
the same thing as saying it’s not available.
.:vector:.
— Day Brown <daybrown@artelco.com> wrote:
Those who have been enlightened, either by meditation, entheogens, or
whatever, sense the ‘holodeck’ or “Matrix” characteristic of what
passes
for reality, and are therefore aware of how malleable it is, in large
part because of what the masses so readily can forget- but also in
part
because those changes fulfill their own personal kharma. Shakespeare
and
others say that all the world’s a stage, and the question is, who
wrote
the script?
The Illuminati know it aint Jehovah or Jesus, much less Allah. In
fact,
what it looks like is a staff of writers who are winging it, trying
to
adapt to the changes Chaos throws at them with every episode every
day.
They may have had an outline to start with, but that gets forgotten
in
the struggle to keep the whole show going amid all the rants by all
the
minds that never developed properly.
It also begs the question of what the point of talking about Ibogaine
is
if you cant get any. Murphy’s law would suggest that you spend
maximum
effort in trying to learn what it will do, and then find out that all
that was a total waste of time. But of course, Murphy is one of the
writers of each daily episode ready when you wake up in the morning.
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail – PC Magazine Editors’ Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Um OT……. re: thanks etc etc
Date: November 3, 2005 at 5:41:40 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Have to agree with Morning Wood here Boaz, with no disrespect to you
and all that you’ve done. Nick Sandberg probably had the funniest and
most concise explanation of how people read this list, at least it
resembles how I read it 😉
The best filter ever invented, it’s called your brain. When you don’t
have alot of time, you only click on the posts from people you want to
hear from. I will save everyone the effort and list them for you here,
it’s the old school I’ve been here over 5 years and in some cases 20
years crowd 😉 If the poster is Howard Lotsof, Patrick Kroupa,
Schmoolyboy, You Boaz Wachtel, Nick Sandberg and Sara Glatt who should
be read alot 😉 and 15 more favorites, then put them into Important
List. Even simpler, check the speakers at every ibogaine conference in
the last 5 years on mindvox or ibogaine.org, if it’s not from one of
them, then delete email right away because its worthless and the person
has no business saying anything.
Here is the messianic loonies list, Lee is in charge of it even if he
has mellowed out lately. Add more names or go join Lee’s personal world
where he has started his own moderated list where he decides what
people are allowed to say. His list includes him and almost nobody
else. Subjects are controlled, messages are controlled, almost nobody
cares, I wonder why. Lee this is your cue to protest for 10 paragraphs.
Please don’t disappoint the audience.
Here are the chatty people who never shut up and talk about nothing
that has anything to do with ibogaine 99% of the time and generate
2/3rds of all messages ever posted here. I won’t list the names, but
you know who you are! 🙂
Here are new people who need help and want to talk about recovery and
understand more about ibogaine. Once signed on here they either love it
to death and have found home, or need more benzos or another drink.
None of them can figure out how to unsubscribe in spite of the fact
that their rant is always followed by the ibogaine list, commands URL.
Here are the people who want to complain about everything and that’s
mostly all they do.
There’s the Sacrament list: sacrament-subscribe@mindvox.com and the
after ibogaine list, ibeganagain-subscribe@mindvox.com. Nobody ever
says anything on either list, because they all want to dump it here
exactly like Nick said.
Dana Beal has his own special category. He’s hard to contain.
There it’s all sorted for you.
Except if there were filters nobody would ever read any of my messages
and i’d be stuck in a room playing cards with Morning Wood. Doesn’t
sound bad actually. You play poker?
Boaz, why don’t you do what I do and what I think nearly everyone does
and what Nick first articulated. You know you want to hear from 10 or
15 people, it’s not PC to say so, but just admit it, so read their
messages and ignore the rest. If you have more free time and want to
talk, rant, or whatnot, then read more. I do give you mad props, but
it’s not like you personally have ever written more then 50 messages to
this list in 5 years. Can’t say any one of them was a great revelation
either, no offense, I’ve posted probably 500 and only maybe 20 were
really important and worth reading. So shoot me, making gestapo salute.
Having the ibogaine list go from low traffic and the usual ibogaine
crowd, to thousands of people who may not contribute alot of knowledge
but at least are interested in ibogaine and aware that it exists, isn’t
what I would call a big loss or anything to complain about.
.:vector:.
— Morning Wood <morning_wood263@yahoo.com> wrote:
I think the unsubscribe feature in e-mail should take care of that
problem.
Or <sigh>
<read in a German accent>
You must write your post in a scientific paper templet.  The author
must have at least a 4 year b.s., site all references correctly and
make sure any expressions are legal under current ‘fair use’ law.
Post’s should only come from people of the old school ibogaine
‘movement’.
So it seems Corny, oh well.
I am sorry to say but many of the recent postings on the Ibogaine
list are hurting the Ibogaine list because of meaningful information
on Ibogaine, and assisting people before, during and after treatment
etc.
Some people who have been with the Ibogaine movement since it’s early
stages are about to
believe this list should be used to communicate meaningful
information on Ibogaine,
and
assist
people
before,
during
and after treatment
 etc.
I speak now for my self
but maybe someone should open a parallel list for the
assisting
people
before,
during
and after treatment
so this very important list
will continue to serve
it’s original purpose – i.e. info on Ibogaine treatments, procedures,
help on line etc.
Warm regards
Boaz Wachtel
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__________________________________
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com
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From: Morning Wood <morning_wood263@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Um OT……. re: thanks etc etc
Date: November 3, 2005 at 4:53:44 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I think the unsubscribe feature in e-mail should take care of that problem.
Or <sigh>
<read in a German accent>
 You must write your post in a scientific paper templet.  The author must have at least a 4 year b.s., site all references correctly and make sure any expressions are legal under current ‘fair use’ law.   Post’s should only come from people of the old school ibogaine ‘movement’.
So it seems Corny, oh well.
I am sorry to say but many of the recent postings on the Ibogaine list are hurting the Ibogaine list because of meaningful information on Ibogaine, and assisting people before, during and after treatment  etc.
Some people who have been with the Ibogaine movement since it’s early stages are about to
 believe this list should be used to communicate meaningful information on Ibogaine,
and
assist
people
before,
during
 and after treatment
  etc.
I speak now for my self
 but maybe someone should open a parallel list for the
assisting
people
before,
 during
 and after treatment
so this very important list
 will continue to serve
it’s original purpose – i.e. info on Ibogaine treatments, procedures, help on line etc.
Warm regards
Boaz Wachtel
Yahoo! FareChase – Search multiple travel sites in one click.
From: shakti@photon.net
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Getting ready
Date: November 3, 2005 at 4:51:24 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Yes!  The people in the pic playing guitar and singing are a couple that
just returned from 7 years in India with Sri Sai Kaleshwara.  You can read
about him here:
http://www.kaleshwar.org/  Sri Sai Kaleshwara will be in San Francisco
Nov. 15 so I’m excited to go hear him speak.
I met them at a big trance party up in the Santa Cruz Mts about 3 weeks
ago that my BF helped put on.
It beats goin’ on a week long bender!
brenda 🙂
Hi Brenda,
Will this be your first time attending a Homa? It sounds interesting.
Lee
shakti@photon.net wrote:
Hi friends,
I decided I’ve done enough “research” on ibogaine and reading other
people’s experiences as I get ready (unless they are the warm and fuzzy
ones!) Since I’ve been sober for like 8 days now, I don’t want to scare
the crap out of myself – and – I want to be as clear and comfortable to be
ready for whatever experience is meant for me.
I’ll be attending as many “satsangs” and such as possible and keep in
touch woith all the new, positive people I am meeting who are into yoga
and other positive spiritual paths – that’s my shtick.
This Sunday night I’m going to a “Homa” fire ceremony in the Santa Cruz
mountains:
http://www.freewebs.com/alxandjonathan/homafaqpage.htm#61913136
Ahhhh….that feels better 🙂
brenda
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Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a
six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those
already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
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From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Erasing memories and its potential for addiction treatment
Date: November 3, 2005 at 4:47:43 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Day,
Nice post. Something to think about. A lot of what you say rings true. So I suppose the interpretation rings true because this life makes very little sense to a lot of people.
Lee
Day Brown <daybrown@artelco.com> wrote:
When I was getting my BA (psych major, comp sci minor) in 1971 at the
Univ of So. Fla in Tampa, the mantra was that 20% of the population was
in need of psychiatric/psychological services. Now, that disease seems
to have spread globally. In part due to Christian guilt tripping and
the disorganization of tribal safety nets. But also in part due to the
modern diets of junkfood and sodapop as well as other contaminants in
the environment both inside and outside the home.
At the rate of progression, its a moot point whether the political and
economic system wont be hit with some kind of mass hysteria. Wallace, in
his anthro classic, “Culture & Personality” reports that when a culture
is headed down the tubes, people’s coping skills dont work anymore, and
they engage in “magical thinking”. Thus the dramatic rise in Fundamental
Christianity and people awaiting “The Rapture. Thus the rise in “wicca”.
Thus also the rise in the ritual use of entheogens as people seek truth
behind the chaos and ambiguity of modern life. Nor do you havta look
that hard to find studies going all the way back to the 60’s of “magical
potions” from shamantic traditions having powerful curative effects on
some of the mental pathologies that are so common. And finally, thus the
rise of psychotropics- Ritalin, Xanax, Prozak…
Those who have been enlightened, either by meditation, entheogens, or
whatever, sense the ‘holodeck’ or “Matrix” characteristic of what passes
for reality, and are therefore aware of how malleable it is, in large
part because of what the masses so readily can forget- but also in part
because those changes fulfill their own personal kharma. Shakespeare and
others say that all the world’s a stage, and the question is, who wrote
the script?
The Illuminati know it aint Jehovah or Jesus, much less Allah. In fact,
what it looks like is a staff of writers who are winging it, trying to
adapt to the changes Chaos throws at them with every episode every day.
They may have had an outline to start with, but that gets forgotten in
the struggle to keep the whole show going amid all the rants by all the
minds that never developed properly.
It also begs the question of what the point of talking about Ibogaine is
if you cant get any. Murphy’s law would suggest that you spend maximum
effort in trying to learn what it will do, and then find out that all
that was a total waste of time. But of course, Murphy is one of the
writers of each daily episode ready when you wake up in the morning.
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Getting ready
Date: November 3, 2005 at 4:43:11 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Brenda,
Will this be your first time attending a Homa? It sounds interesting.
Lee
shakti@photon.net wrote:
Hi friends,
I decided I’ve done enough “research” on ibogaine and reading other
people’s experiences as I get ready (unless they are the warm and fuzzy
ones!) Since I’ve been sober for like 8 days now, I don’t want to scare
the crap out of myself – and – I want to be as clear and comfortable to be
ready for whatever experience is meant for me.
I’ll be attending as many “satsangs” and such as possible and keep in
touch woith all the new, positive people I am meeting who are into yoga
and other positive spiritual paths – that’s my shtick.
This Sunday night I’m going to a “Homa” fire ceremony in the Santa Cruz
mountains:
http://www.freewebs.com/alxandjonathan/homafaqpage.htm#61913136
Ahhhh….that feels better 🙂
brenda
———————————————————–
WebMail provided by Photon.Net – http://www.photon.net/
Nationwide internet access, thousands of dial-up numbers!
Web hosting, multimedia broadcasting, e-commerce, and more.
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Erasing memories and its potential for addiction treatment
Date: November 3, 2005 at 4:39:35 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Which is why the memories one sees with eboga are for real. They come imo via the spirit.
But, beware of the future!
Lee
Day Brown <daybrown@artelco.com> wrote:
slowone@hush.ai wrote:
>>The centre’s mission, says its director, *Dr Wrye Sententia,* …
>
>
> Is this for real?
yes. Memory works like RAM; it is *rewritten* every time it is
accessed. which is why as well, when you have witnesses go over
what they think they saw, they will add details that never were
there in the first place. They try to create less chaotic, more
organized images that are easier, from the standpoint of
compression algorithms, to store.
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
From: Day Brown <daybrown@artelco.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Erasing memories and its potential for addiction treatment
Date: November 3, 2005 at 4:04:50 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
When I was getting my BA (psych major, comp sci minor) in 1971 at the
Univ of So. Fla in Tampa, the mantra was that 20% of the population was
in need of psychiatric/psychological services. Now, that disease seems
to have spread globally. In part due to Christian guilt tripping and
the disorganization of tribal safety nets. But also in part due to the
modern diets of junkfood and sodapop as well as other contaminants in
the environment both inside and outside the home.
At the rate of progression, its a moot point whether the political and
economic system wont be hit with some kind of mass hysteria. Wallace, in
his anthro classic, “Culture & Personality” reports that when a culture
is headed down the tubes, people’s coping skills dont work anymore, and
they engage in “magical thinking”. Thus the dramatic rise in Fundamental
Christianity and people awaiting “The Rapture. Thus the rise in “wicca”.
Thus also the rise in the ritual use of entheogens as people seek truth
behind the chaos and ambiguity of modern life. Nor do you havta look
that hard to find studies going all the way back to the 60’s of “magical
potions” from shamantic traditions having powerful curative effects on
some of the mental pathologies that are so common. And finally, thus the
rise of psychotropics- Ritalin, Xanax, Prozak…
Those who have been enlightened, either by meditation, entheogens, or
whatever, sense the ‘holodeck’ or “Matrix” characteristic of what passes
for reality, and are therefore aware of how malleable it is, in large
part because of what the masses so readily can forget- but also in part
because those changes fulfill their own personal kharma. Shakespeare and
others say that all the world’s a stage, and the question is, who wrote
the script?
The Illuminati know it aint Jehovah or Jesus, much less Allah. In fact,
what it looks like is a staff of writers who are winging it, trying to
adapt to the changes Chaos throws at them with every episode every day.
They may have had an outline to start with, but that gets forgotten in
the struggle to keep the whole show going amid all the rants by all the
minds that never developed properly.
It also begs the question of what the point of talking about Ibogaine is
if you cant get any. Murphy’s law would suggest that you spend maximum
effort in trying to learn what it will do, and then find out that all
that was a total waste of time. But of course, Murphy is one of the
writers of each daily episode ready when you wake up in the morning.
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
From: shakti@photon.net
Subject: [Ibogaine] Getting ready
Date: November 3, 2005 at 2:55:57 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi friends,
I decided I’ve done enough “research” on ibogaine and reading other
people’s experiences as I get ready (unless they are the warm and fuzzy
ones!)  Since I’ve been sober for like 8 days now, I don’t want to scare
the crap out of myself – and – I want to be as clear and comfortable to be
ready for whatever experience is meant for me.
I’ll be attending as many “satsangs” and such as possible and keep in
touch woith all the new, positive people I am meeting who are into yoga
and other positive spiritual paths – that’s my shtick.
This Sunday night I’m going to a “Homa” fire ceremony in the Santa Cruz
mountains:
http://www.freewebs.com/alxandjonathan/homafaqpage.htm#61913136
Ahhhh….that feels better 🙂
brenda
———————————————————–
WebMail provided by Photon.Net – http://www.photon.net/
Nationwide internet access, thousands of dial-up numbers!
Web hosting, multimedia broadcasting, e-commerce, and more.
 /]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
 \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: Day Brown <daybrown@artelco.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Erasing memories and its potential for addiction treatment
Date: November 3, 2005 at 2:30:29 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
slowone@hush.ai wrote:
The centre’s mission, says its director, *Dr Wrye Sententia,* …
Is this for real?
yes. Memory works like RAM; it is *rewritten* every time it is
accessed. which is why as well, when you have witnesses go over
what they think they saw, they will add details that never were
there in the first place. They try to create less chaotic, more
organized images that are easier, from the standpoint of
compression algorithms, to store.
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] apadravya
Date: November 3, 2005 at 12:54:14 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Preston, I have a few questions…..Does that piercing hurt ever? Have you had any infections since you got it? Does V like it? Do you know if the post of jewelry passes through urethra?
I find these piercings fascinating! I think it would really take guts to get your penis pierced! Were you worried about it getting infected? How long have you had it?
Curious Callie
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine list in Pain?
Date: November 3, 2005 at 12:12:18 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
If this Ibogaine list was in so much pain…. would it be so big?  If it
wasn’t helping people would I be doing Ibogaine in January?  And have all
the information I need?
Forgive me for I am a Noisey Person who loves people especially those here
and well I would still LOVE to see a live chat thingy tacked onto the
Ibogaine list.
That I know would turn down the volume on the noise.
Til then………
LALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALAA
(round n round in circles banging pot lids.) (yes my mother hated me)
Kirk
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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Fw:,for Don, from ron (ot) should be off list
Date: November 3, 2005 at 12:02:42 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Was that directed at me???
LOL
TOUCHE!!
Well feel free to come over here and sort out what’s going on with it cos
buggerd if I know why it keeps sending an email with attachments over and
over!!!  And its only attachments. I still have gremlins.  But HEYYYY innit
nice to not be getting any ERROR MESSAGES?????
Lol
;o)
Kirk xx
—–Original Message—–
From: slowone@hush.ai [mailto:slowone@hush.ai]
Sent: Friday, 4 November 2005 5:10 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Fw:,for Don, from ron (ot) should be off list
It would be nice if people could hold back from sending the same
image over and over.
On Wed, 02 Nov 2005 21:40:15 -0800 Mark Franzeskos
<nsxy1@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
thanks
Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz> wrote:v\:*
{behavior:url(#default#VML);}o\:*
{behavior:url(#default#VML);}w\:*
{behavior:url(#default#VML);}.shape
{behavior:url(#default#VML);}st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui)
}
Heh, I was thinking the same thing!!
Ron.. Check the date on your emails before you reply… I know I
know old age is a bitch complicated by eons of drug taking melting
most brain matter…so I do understand but try to check ok? Lol
And lol don.. yeh yeh whatever lol j/k
Matt.. yeh he’s doing great! Come on Matt give em all a update!!!
I annoy him on a daily basis to make sure he’s being good
hehhehhe!! Poor bugger!!
Kirk xxx
———————————
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net]
Sent: Thursday, 3 November 2005 6:16 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw:,for Don, from ron (ot) should be off
list
Wow, Ron, that was a week ago, we already hashed this out. I’ll
say it again, you are OK in my book, and it’s nice to see you
talking in complete sentences. Dude, look at your sent box for the
week before then, you were spewing crap like a Great Dane on a
raisin diet. Nice to have you back, I appreciate your comments and
you are fun to talk to MOST OF THE TIME. I just thot you needed a
wakeup call, and the motion was supported by others who care about
you as well. So, SHUT UP the whining and the self degradation,
that crap don’t fly , we are all manipulators here and have not
only seen, but DONE it as well. Just be honest, dood. Stop beating
yourself up.
One more thing, this is for the room. Remember, WE ARE ALL dealing
with mood altering chemicals and like it or not, we CAN type when
we CAN’T think. I appreciate the passes I have been given here for
my outbursts, and I WILL remember your patience. You guys know who
you are.
What happened to Matt Z.? He Ibo’ed and like fell off the planet,
is he OK?
Bee
Ron Davis wrote:
Don:
you are correct, i do blank out, contribute very little and am a
moron. So where’s the common thread? Us trying to live clean and
being comfortable in doing so.  It’s just a dumb guess.  My humor
or lack of it ain’t for everyone.  It’s a bit too cynical for guys
like me at times but still i type. i don’t take offense at
potshots ( momma jokes aside) so have at it anytime the urge
strikes. luck to you on your journey and the rest of us.
many die along the way or worse things happen. age and doing the
same old stuff have long since rubbed the point off this dude’s
ego and intellect.  it’s just my way of saying it ain’t fun,
hasn’t been for eons and hope i can get out of this corner i
painted myself into, and i did it all by myself, geeze.  follow
the winners, not the whiners like me. ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Don Patton
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 11:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw: Stick People to Jason attachment not
large I think, bwtfdino exercise caution, I hope I’m getting
better, koko OT
Ron, you’re not really adding anyting to the group, we all got
chairs here, Yours blanks out at times.
Ron Davis wrote:
primitive for all who read or watch, koko. safe to open if space
allows.
—– Original Message —–
To: <
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 8:35 AM
Subject: Stick People
———————————
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From: “Charles Rossouw” <kabel@mweb.co.za>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Um OT……. re: thanks etc etc
Date: November 3, 2005 at 11:48:58 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Yo Bo!
—–Original Message—–
From: boaz [mailto:wachtel@shani.net]
Sent: 03 November 2005 08:32 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Um OT……. re: thanks etc etc
I am sorry to say but many of the recent postings on the Ibogaine list are hurting the Ibogaine list because of meaningless communications between few individuals who should communicate between themselves through private e mails.
Some people who have been with the Ibogaine movement since it’s early stages are about to quit the list due to its abuse because I and they believe this list should be used to communicate meaningful information on Ibogaine, and assist people before, during and after treatment  etc.
I speak now for my self but maybe someone should open a parallel list for the trivial communications so this very important list will continue to serve it’s original purpose – i.e. info on Ibogaine treatments, procedures, help on line etc.
Warm regards
Boaz Wachtel
From: Kirk [mailto:captkirk@clear.net.nz] 
Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 8:14 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] [Ibogaine] Um OT……. re: thanks etc etc
I mean THANKS…. Lol git yer mitts off dat…
Urhhhhh
‘ave anuvva beer kirky
Why fank u don’t mind if I do!!!
lol
From: Kirk [mailto:captkirk@clear.net.nz] 
Sent: Thursday, 3 November 2005 7:08 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Fw:,for Don, from ron (ot) should be off list
Oi get yer mitts off that welcome, twas MEEE wot helped him out lol
;o)
kirk
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net] 
Sent: Thursday, 3 November 2005 6:49 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw:,for Don, from ron (ot) should be off list
Your Welcome??????

Mark Franzeskos wrote:
thanks

Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz> wrote:
Heh, I was thinking the same thing!!
Ron…. Check the date on your emails before you reply……. I know I know old age is a bitch complicated by eons of drug taking melting most brain matter………so I do understand but try to check ok? Lol
And lol don.. yeh yeh whatever lol j/k
Matt.. yeh he’s doing great! Come on Matt give em all a update!!!  I annoy him on a daily basis to make sure he’s being good  hehhehhe!! Poor bugger!!
Kirk xxx
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net] 
Sent: Thursday, 3 November 2005 6:16 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw:,for Don, from ron (ot) should be off list
Wow, Ron, that was a week ago, we already hashed this out. I’ll say it again, you are OK in my book, and it’s nice to see you talking in complete sentences. Dude, look at your sent box for the week before then, you were spewing crap like a Great Dane on a raisin diet. Nice to have you back, I appreciate your comments and you are fun to talk to MOST OF THE TIME. I just thot you needed a wakeup call, and the motion was supported by others who care about you as well. So, SHUT UP the whining and the self degradation, that crap don’t fly , we are all manipulators here and have not only seen, but DONE it as well. Just be honest, dood. Stop beating yourself up.

One more thing, this is for the room. Remember, WE ARE ALL dealing with mood altering chemicals and like it or not, we CAN type when we CAN’T think. I appreciate the passes I have been given here for my outbursts, and I WILL remember your patience. You guys know who you are.

What happened to Matt Z.? He Ibo’ed and like fell off the planet, is he OK?

Bee

Ron Davis wrote:
Don:
you are correct, i do blank out, contribute very little and am a moron. So where’s the common thread? Us trying to live clean and being comfortable in doing so.  It’s just a dumb guess.  My humor or lack of it ain’t for everyone.  It’s a bit too cynical for guys like me at times but still i type. i don’t take offense at potshots ( momma jokes aside) so have at it anytime the urge strikes. luck to you on your journey and the rest of us.
many die along the way or worse things happen. age and doing the same old stuff have long since rubbed the point off this dude’s ego and intellect.  it’s just my way of saying it ain’t fun, hasn’t been for eons and hope i can get out of this corner i painted myself into, and i did it all by myself, geeze.  follow the winners, not the whiners like me. ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Don Patton
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 11:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw: Stick People to Jason attachment not large I think, bwtfdino exercise caution, I hope I’m getting better, koko OT
Ron, you’re not really adding anyting to the group, we all got chairs here, Yours blanks out at times.

Ron Davis wrote:
primitive for all who read or watch, koko. safe to open if space allows. 
—– Original Message —–
To: < 
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 8:35 AM 
Subject: Stick People
<hr size=4 width=”90%” align=center>
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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Fw:,for Don, from ron (ot) should be off list
Date: November 3, 2005 at 11:10:19 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
It would be nice if people could hold back from sending the same
image over and over.
On Wed, 02 Nov 2005 21:40:15 -0800 Mark Franzeskos
<nsxy1@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
thanks
Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz> wrote:v\:*
{behavior:url(#default#VML);}o\:*
{behavior:url(#default#VML);}w\:*
{behavior:url(#default#VML);}.shape
{behavior:url(#default#VML);}st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui)
}
Heh, I was thinking the same thing!!
Ron
. Check the date on your emails before you reply
. I know I
know old age is a bitch complicated by eons of drug taking melting
most brain matter
so I do understand but try to check ok? Lol
And lol don.. yeh yeh whatever lol j/k
Matt.. yeh he’s doing great! Come on Matt give em all a update!!!
I annoy him on a daily basis to make sure he’s being good
hehhehhe!! Poor bugger!!
Kirk xxx
———————————
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net]
Sent: Thursday, 3 November 2005 6:16 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw:,for Don, from ron (ot) should be off
list
Wow, Ron, that was a week ago, we already hashed this out. I’ll
say it again, you are OK in my book, and it’s nice to see you
talking in complete sentences. Dude, look at your sent box for the
week before then, you were spewing crap like a Great Dane on a
raisin diet. Nice to have you back, I appreciate your comments and
you are fun to talk to MOST OF THE TIME. I just thot you needed a
wakeup call, and the motion was supported by others who care about
you as well. So, SHUT UP the whining and the self degradation,
that crap don’t fly , we are all manipulators here and have not
only seen, but DONE it as well. Just be honest, dood. Stop beating
yourself up.
One more thing, this is for the room. Remember, WE ARE ALL dealing
with mood altering chemicals and like it or not, we CAN type when
we CAN’T think. I appreciate the passes I have been given here for
my outbursts, and I WILL remember your patience. You guys know who
you are.
What happened to Matt Z.? He Ibo’ed and like fell off the planet,
is he OK?
Bee
Ron Davis wrote:
Don:
you are correct, i do blank out, contribute very little and am a
moron. So where’s the common thread? Us trying to live clean and
being comfortable in doing so.  It’s just a dumb guess.  My humor
or lack of it ain’t for everyone.  It’s a bit too cynical for guys
like me at times but still i type. i don’t take offense at
potshots ( momma jokes aside) so have at it anytime the urge
strikes. luck to you on your journey and the rest of us.
many die along the way or worse things happen. age and doing the
same old stuff have long since rubbed the point off this dude’s
ego and intellect.  it’s just my way of saying it ain’t fun,
hasn’t been for eons and hope i can get out of this corner i
painted myself into, and i did it all by myself, geeze.  follow
the winners, not the whiners like me. ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Don Patton
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 11:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw: Stick People to Jason attachment not
large I think, bwtfdino exercise caution, I hope I’m getting
better, koko OT
Ron, you’re not really adding anyting to the group, we all got
chairs here, Yours blanks out at times.
Ron Davis wrote:
primitive for all who read or watch, koko. safe to open if space
allows.
—– Original Message —–
To: <
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 8:35 AM
Subject: Stick People
———————————
———————————
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From: Krista Vaughan <krista.vaughan@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Um OT……. re: thanks etc etc
Date: November 3, 2005 at 10:44:16 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I’m having a hard time agreeing with one group or another, I would
personally prefer if people split up their messages and the ibogaine
list focused more on ibogaine and the group support list was for group
support. Unless I’m wrong ibeganagain is another ibogaine list on
Mindvox along with sacrament, which were all made to split up the
conversations and keep things more on topic.
At the same time nobody posts to those lists and wants to talk to
themselves or they would cc the message to 5 people, they want exactly
what Nick wrote.
I don’t think I’m in a position to tell anyone what to do because I’ve
been here less then a year and in that time it’s kept getting bigger
and bigger and this problem has come up here many times, in less kind
ways, the same 3 people post a load of noise that says nothing much
and maybe helpful as group support for them but isn’t of interest to
most.
I don’t have the answer, only observations. I have loads of respect
for Howard, Patrick, the loads of people this list has helped, the
other side of the opinion that people doing the real work with
ibogaine want all the noise, because it makes it easier for them to
help those who need help more invisibly, the lists in addition to this
one already exist and nobody uses them, I have loads of respect for
you Boaz, you co wrote the ibogaine manual with Howard, I think the
solution has been to block or delete the specific people from this
list you don’t want to hear from and they go away, for you they don’t
exist anymore. Then, those same people who use this list for group
support, post loads of messages about nothing and bury some really
useful advice or info in one of their messages that helps out others.
Only thoughts.
KV
On 11/3/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Trouble is, no one wants to join a list created specifically for trivial
communications. The excitement is in putting out highly personalized trivial
bitchy nonsense to everyone, especially people who really don’t want it.
Personally, I don’t think it’s so terrible. Petty bitchy stuff is OK. People
can also lighten up a bit or block delete. Or just bitch back, I think
that’s more constructive than just withdrawing.
Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: boaz [mailto:wachtel@shani.net]
Sent: 03 November 2005 06:32
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Um OT……. re: thanks etc etc
I am sorry to say but many of the recent postings on the Ibogaine list are
hurting the Ibogaine list because of meaningless communications between few
individuals who should communicate between themselves through private e
mails.
Some people who have been with the Ibogaine movement since it’s early stages
are about to quit the list due to its abuse because I and they believe this
list should be used to communicate meaningful information on Ibogaine, and
assist people before, during and after treatment  etc.
I speak now for my self but maybe someone should open a parallel list for
the trivial communications so this very important list will continue to
serve it’s original purpose – i.e. info on Ibogaine treatments, procedures,
help on line etc.
Warm regards
Boaz Wachtel
From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Erasing memories and its potential for addiction treatment
Date: November 3, 2005 at 10:37:58 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
The centre’s mission, says its director, *Dr Wrye Sententia,* …
Is this for real?
On Wed, 02 Nov 2005 21:39:05 -0800 Boris Leshinsky
<bleshins@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
http://smh.com.au/news/health/choose-to-
forget/2005/11/03/1130823319127.html?page=2
Choose to forget
November 3, 2005
Manipulating memory is now a reality, writes Wendy Champagne.
The American novelist William Faulkner said: “The past is never
dead. It’s not even past.” Thanks to memory we have a living
history, an identity. Yet given the opportunity, how many of us
would go the way of Jim Carrey in Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless
Mind and delete or alter that archive of embarrassing, painful or
debilitating memories?
You only have to look at the super-charged growth of investment in
the brain industry – which is developing devices and drugs – over
the past five years to realise that even if we choose not to use
it, we will soon have the ability to make memories disappear.
A 2001 study by the World Health Organisation revealed that more
than a fifth of the world’s population suffers a brain-related
illness; that makes neuroscience this century’s hot-ticket
research area.
A few years ago, at McGill University in Canada, memory research
took a giant leap forward when Dr Karim Nader, from its psychology
department, “rediscovered reconsolidation”, dispelling the notion
that long-term memory was a fixed entity.
Memories were thought to exist in an unstable state and over time –
a number of hours – they “consolidated” and stayed that way
forever. Nader demonstrated when we retrieve a memory it is again
transformed into a vulnerable state where it can be manipulated or
lost.
“Experimenting with rats we reactivated a long-term memory and
then, using the drug propranolol, blocked protein synthesis in the
amygdala – one of the systems crucial for learning and
consolidating memories of fearful events – and the rats were no
longer afraid,” Nader says. “It was bizarre. It should have been a
fixed memory.”
Five years later, the same process has been demonstrated in
snails, honey bees, earthworms, crabs and, last year, in humans.
In September alone there were two separate memory reconsolidation
studies published in the US neuroscience journal Neuron. One
showed how protein inhibitors can selectively disrupt memories
associated with cocaine use – the memory of past highs, for
example – which could become the basis of a treatment for
addiction.
The idea, Nader says, is not to eliminate the memory but
neutralise the emotional boost we give a memory when we recall it.
He believes there are potential applications for this kind of
treatment in post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), obsessive-
compulsive disorder, chronic pain, epilepsy, addiction or even
performance anxiety.
Yet while this research may offer tremendous hope for the
treatment of neurological and psychiatric disease, it also has
tremendous potential for misuse. The day after Nader’s first study
was published a woman phoned his lab and asked whether she could
have memories of her abusive first husband erased. “The grey area
is quite grey,” Nader says, “and somebody should determine where
we draw a line.”
Australia has not yet engaged in a serious dialogue about these
neuro-ethical issues, but at the Centre for Cognitive Liberty and
Ethics in California freedom of thought is a central concern.
The centre’s mission, says its director, Dr Wrye Sententia, is to
safeguard the rights of individuals who may wish to use new mind-
augmenting drugs and technologies. She admits the “genie is
already out of the bag” when it comes to public access to
neurotechnologies, or brain pharmaceuticals called
“neuroceuticals”, and predicts the growth of a consumer-driven
marketplace for cognitive therapies just like the industry that’s
developed around plastic surgery.
While giving relief to people haunted by memories of war or abuse
is undoubtedly a positive, the ethical divide between using drugs
to treat memory disorders and making them available to healthy
people for memory enhancement – “cosmetic neurology” – is not
clear-cut.
Professor Fred Mendelsohn, director of the Howard Florey Institute
in Melbourne, is building on a discovery he made about a system
that aids learning and memory in rats and mice.
He and his colleagues are trying to develop a molecule that mimics
the action of certain brain receptors in order to develop a drug
that may help people with memory deficits or disorders, but will
potentially be useful in normal brains as well.
Dr Sententia says this “Viagra for the mind” approach is occurring
on college campuses across the United States and Australia, where
students take Ritalin to improve learning functions.
Clinical trials of memory enhancers have been running in the US
for some years and,
according to Dr Sententia, the experimental results of one trial
on older men and women with mild cognitive impairment were so
promising the subjects wanted to stay on the drugs.
Will these marketable cognitive developments lead consumers to a
Carrey-like choice to have a bad memory erased forever?
“Erasing memory is just silly,” Nader says. “You don’t want to
take things away from people.”
But the field is moving fast. “My bet is at some point in the next
year or two there is going to be some report testing
reconsolidation in conditions such as PTSD or drug addiction, and
showing some degree of improvement.”
Professor Mendelsohn is equally optimistic about his work, but
remains cautious: “We have a strong effect – we can start to see a
pathway towards developing it as a medicine – but we still have
quite a lot of work to do.”
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (COMPLETELY OT) Re: [Ibogaine]
Date: November 3, 2005 at 10:03:09 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I wrote >with all he’s already untaking< but meant “undertaking…”
I wrote >I was left standing there feelings kinds silly< but actually meant “feeling kinda silly…”
And I wrote >but once meeting him over Mexican food before the
reading, a book release thing for disinfo’s first anthology, in which I have
a long article about CIA-Drug Running, but read nothing from it at the
reading. I read a story about me being psycho in Central Park on speedballs
I think it was.< but meant to write something more along the lines of (additions in brakets):
but once meeting him over Mexican food before the
reading, a book release thing for disinfo’s first anthology, in which I have
a long article about CIA-Drug Running, but read nothing from it at the
reading- I [instead] read a story about me being psycho in Central Park on speedballs
I think it was, [he, GP, turned out to be quite nice and friendly, and easy to talk to. But I did have to be introduced to get to that stage and see that side of him.]<
and finally I wrote:
(funny, an ex and I had “meet
and get pierced by Mr. Sebastian AND meet and hang out with GP” when we
moved to Europe, and considered moving to London before settling in
Rotterdam, where six months late we broke up)<
but meant to write >(funny, an ex and I had [on our “list of thing we really wanted to do if we moved to London” list,] “meet
and get pierced by Mr. Sebastian AND meet and hang out with GP” when we
moved to Europe, and considered moving to London before settling in
Rotterdam, where six months late[r] we broke up)<
Sorry about the really bad proofreading.
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —– From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 10:53 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (COMPLETELY OT) Re: [Ibogaine]
>Good shit, u got pierced by gp!!!! <
No, I got pierced by Mr. Sebastian, who did most of GP’s piercings- read the post again.
;-))
Too bad though, it sure got you excited.
He almost contributed to the new book that’s hitting shelves any day now, but decided that with all he’s already untaking (which is cool, means he’s still keeping busy creating), it would be like “wringing blood from a stone,” were I to ask him to write me an article.
But he’s a really nice guy, and I’ve had dinner with him, he hosted a reading I did, I’ve hung out a couple times for short amounts of time on other occasions- but the very first time I “met” GP was on Ave. A, and for a second I blanked right after turning around as he and another guy, a drummer from the Pig Face show the night before, passed me by and I said, “Hey, You’re…ummm, you’re…” and GP said, “Alice.”
LOL, and he said it with real attitude too, and if you’ve seen GP lately, it would certainly give one pause for a moment. I was left standing there feelings kinds silly, but once meeting him over Mexican food before the reading, a book release thing for disinfo’s first anthology, in which I have a long article about CIA-Drug Running, but read nothing from it at the reading. I read a story about me being psycho in Central Park on speedballs I think it was.
  Anyway, my point is you can tell your ex (funny, an ex and I had “meet and get pierced by Mr. Sebastian AND meet and hang out with GP” when we moved to Europe, and considered moving to London before settling in Rotterdam, where six months late we broke up) that I did NOT get pierced by GP, but have hugged and been hugged by him, complimented by him, and like him a lot.
How’s that?
Peace and love,
Preston Peet
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —– From: “Kirk” <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 2:14 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] (COMPLETELY OT) Re: [Ibogaine]
LOL.
Thanks, Preston, for sharing!! Cool story! I remember Throbbing Gristle!!!!
Good shit, u got pierced by gp!!!! Wicked! Wait til I tell my ex that he’ll
be so jealous!!
Lmao @limp dick roflmao actually
Funny shit
Cheers
Kirk xx
—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Thursday, 3 November 2005 5:28 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] (COMPLETELY OT) Re: [Ibogaine]
Pierced.. where did you say again??????????????????????????????????
Hahahahahaha<
I realize you aren’t addressing me in the slightest, but what the heck, I
seldom get an opportunity to divulge, if you will, the more private
piercings I have. So, in my own case? Hmmm, let’s see-
I currently have 20 holes in which rings usually are worn, though I’m
missing a few of the rings at the moment. The holes are everywhere, but I’ll
leave most of them to your imagination.
  But if anyone here remembers the old ReSearch series of books,
particularly the one titled Modern Primitives, you may remember Mr.
Sebastian, a Londoner who did many if not most of Genesis P-Orrige’s
piercings (GP of Pig Face, Psychic TV, and Throbbing Gristle- the “first
industrial” band around- to name but three of his projects over the years),
and I think may have had his own chapter but can’t at this point remember.
Anyway, he was someone I’d really wanted to meet and get pierced by (and so
was able to mark off on my list of things I want to get done within my
lifetime on Earth this time ’round, and after meeting a young lady who
turned out to be a good friend of his, I got past the three month waiting
list and saw him three days later.
  The fact I already had a Prince Albert helped a lot, as it showed I was
serious about my piercing, but I also suspect that perhaps more importantly,
it made the Apadravia I wanted him to do for me a little easier as it is
already half-way done with a Prince Albert already in there. Not into
piercings for the pain, as some genuinely are, when he asked if I wanted
Novacaine, I replied with a hearty “YES,” so that was really the only needle
I felt during the entire process, having literally a “limp dick” after the
injection of Novacaine.
  So that’s my story and I’m sticking to it.
  Sorry about posting such an off-topic post, but I simply couldn’t help
myself, it’s my disease that made me do it, I’m sick, twisted, got a problem
or three that make me craaaaazy, totally and completely insane.
Peace and love,
Preston Peet
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —– From: “Kirk” <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 1:23 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]
Ooooooooooooo Adivan………ooooooooooo used to love dem fings!!!  Talk
about sledge hammer to the conscious part of you!!!! LOL those things
lasted
ma few days!!
Yum!!!
Yeh and PHOTO come on now Jasen……. we just know you are this sex
symbol
hiding out there in Aussie…….
Hahahahahaha hung like an …. ass? Roflmao
Pierced.. where did you say again??????????????????????????????????
Hahahahahaha
—–Original Message—–
From: brenda brewer [mailto:shakti@photon.net]
Sent: Wednesday, 2 November 2005 7:18 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]
Come on, honey….photo.  BTW. You guys crackin’ me up tonight!  I’m
working
11 hours per day every day this week so all bid y’all g’nite.  I am
feeling
much better – mostly due to my compassionate doc and a week’s supply of
Adivan, which I’m only taking at bedtime now – NOW 🙂
Sweet dreams!
Love,
brenda
On 11/1/05 10:06 PM, “Kirk” <captkirk@clear.net.nz> wrote:
AGAIN DAMMIT
—–Original Message—–
From: Jasen Chamoun [mailto:jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au]
Sent: Wednesday, 2 November 2005 7:04 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]
—– Original Message —–
From: “Kirk” <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 3:44 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] O.k serious now,.. : )
Ohhhh you are Syrian???
Ok. Come on… fess up a photo now boy. It’s only fair…..
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Shakti
Vocalist/Lyricist
House, Soul, Background vocals
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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Um OT……. re: thanks etc etc
Date: November 3, 2005 at 8:03:18 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Trouble is, no one wants to join a list created specifically for trivial communications. The excitement is in putting out highly personalized trivial bitchy nonsense to everyone, especially people who really don’t want it. Personally, I don’t think it’s so terrible. Petty bitchy stuff is OK. People can also lighten up a bit or block delete. Or just bitch back, I think that’s more constructive than just withdrawing.
Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: boaz [mailto:wachtel@shani.net]
Sent: 03 November 2005 06:32
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Um OT……. re: thanks etc etc
I am sorry to say but many of the recent postings on the Ibogaine list are hurting the Ibogaine list because of meaningless communications between few individuals who should communicate between themselves through private e mails.
Some people who have been with the Ibogaine movement since it’s early stages are about to quit the list due to its abuse because I and they believe this list should be used to communicate meaningful information on Ibogaine, and assist people before, during and after treatment  etc.
I speak now for my self but maybe someone should open a parallel list for the trivial communications so this very important list will continue to serve it’s original purpose – i.e. info on Ibogaine treatments, procedures, help on line etc.
Warm regards
Boaz Wachtel
From: Kirk [mailto:captkirk@clear.net.nz] 
Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 8:14 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] [Ibogaine] Um OT……. re: thanks etc etc
I mean THANKS…. Lol git yer mitts off dat…
Urhhhhh
‘ave anuvva beer kirky
Why fank u don’t mind if I do!!!
lol
From: Kirk [mailto:captkirk@clear.net.nz] 
Sent: Thursday, 3 November 2005 7:08 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Fw:,for Don, from ron (ot) should be off list
Oi get yer mitts off that welcome, twas MEEE wot helped him out lol
;o)
kirk
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net] 
Sent: Thursday, 3 November 2005 6:49 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw:,for Don, from ron (ot) should be off list
Your Welcome??????

Mark Franzeskos wrote:
thanks

Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz> wrote:
Heh, I was thinking the same thing!!
Ron…. Check the date on your emails before you reply……. I know I know old age is a bitch complicated by eons of drug taking melting most brain matter………so I do understand but try to check ok? Lol
And lol don.. yeh yeh whatever lol j/k
Matt.. yeh he’s doing great! Come on Matt give em all a update!!!  I annoy him on a daily basis to make sure he’s being good  hehhehhe!! Poor bugger!!
Kirk xxx
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net] 
Sent: Thursday, 3 November 2005 6:16 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw:,for Don, from ron (ot) should be off list
Wow, Ron, that was a week ago, we already hashed this out. I’ll say it again, you are OK in my book, and it’s nice to see you talking in complete sentences. Dude, look at your sent box for the week before then, you were spewing crap like a Great Dane on a raisin diet. Nice to have you back, I appreciate your comments and you are fun to talk to MOST OF THE TIME. I just thot you needed a wakeup call, and the motion was supported by others who care about you as well. So, SHUT UP the whining and the self degradation, that crap don’t fly , we are all manipulators here and have not only seen, but DONE it as well. Just be honest, dood. Stop beating yourself up.

One more thing, this is for the room. Remember, WE ARE ALL dealing with mood altering chemicals and like it or not, we CAN type when we CAN’T think. I appreciate the passes I have been given here for my outbursts, and I WILL remember your patience. You guys know who you are.

What happened to Matt Z.? He Ibo’ed and like fell off the planet, is he OK?

Bee

Ron Davis wrote:
Don:
you are correct, i do blank out, contribute very little and am a moron. So where’s the common thread? Us trying to live clean and being comfortable in doing so.  It’s just a dumb guess.  My humor or lack of it ain’t for everyone.  It’s a bit too cynical for guys like me at times but still i type. i don’t take offense at potshots ( momma jokes aside) so have at it anytime the urge strikes. luck to you on your journey and the rest of us.
many die along the way or worse things happen. age and doing the same old stuff have long since rubbed the point off this dude’s ego and intellect.  it’s just my way of saying it ain’t fun, hasn’t been for eons and hope i can get out of this corner i painted myself into, and i did it all by myself, geeze.  follow the winners, not the whiners like me. ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Don Patton
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 11:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw: Stick People to Jason attachment not large I think, bwtfdino exercise caution, I hope I’m getting better, koko OT
Ron, you’re not really adding anyting to the group, we all got chairs here, Yours blanks out at times.

Ron Davis wrote:
primitive for all who read or watch, koko. safe to open if space allows. 
—– Original Message —–
To: < 
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 8:35 AM 
Subject: Stick People
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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] dosage >>>>>journey
Date: November 3, 2005 at 7:09:41 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
matt
and boaz although u have a valid point  look closely at the number of replies this mesage will get adn think about it….

Capt Kirk :- Um./…. I’m sorry…. What was your name again?????????????????  Who the fuk are u????  why do you think we’ll reply to you?  Geez!! What an ego!!!!
;o)
Kirk xx
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From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] dosage >>>>>journey
Date: November 3, 2005 at 6:06:02 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
greetings iboga fanatics
for someone who weighs about 65kg and is clean how would two grams of ibo hcl work out>?
I dont think there is any reason to worry right>?….never mind the health issues, asking about the journey….haa this time i wana come back heh :]
i mean fuk if i look at the amount they take in africa it seems like a joke
but i want to hear from people who got clean and repeated the session with a larger amount
but it is certain that the more u take u ll rach higher….aye>?…..becuase i think i read somewhere this is not always the case
the plan is to divide the 2 g s in three doses….one gram and two halfs….do the one then wait until the gods appear then do half and another half later on……will the effects be same if the dose is divided or taken all at once
Don im doing as good as is posible….thanks for asking :}…..its a strugle but i have found purpose and meaning to life so i know where im going and where i stand but most importantly where i dont want to end up :] and hey 5 weeks clean this tues coming up….fuken A!!…but i definetly will do ibo before xms and now since i can afford it i wana buy it with my next paycheck so the gods will have a few weeks to prepare themselves to  guide me again…..muahahahaa :]
love light and all that hipy shit
matt
and boaz although u have a valid point  look closely at the number of replies this mesage will get adn think about it….
Open your e-mail without having to worry about viruses with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Um OT……. re: thanks etc etc
Date: November 3, 2005 at 1:59:04 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Heyyyy haven’;t heard from one of you for a while!!!
Go to the start page of MINDVOX and READ the welcome matt would ya please??
How much meaningful information do you think comes about on a daily basis????  This is not just an Ibogaine list. It is a community of all sorts.
There is more than enough info on links for people like you who don’t want to socialise. Go read.
With contained love light n laughter
Kirk ;o)
From: boaz [mailto:wachtel@shani.net] 
Sent: Thursday, 3 November 2005 7:32 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Um OT……. re: thanks etc etc
I am sorry to say but many of the recent postings on the Ibogaine list are hurting the Ibogaine list because of meaningless communications between few individuals who should communicate between themselves through private e mails.
Some people who have been with the Ibogaine movement since it’s early stages are about to quit the list due to its abuse because I and they believe this list should be used to communicate meaningful information on Ibogaine, and assist people before, during and after treatment  etc.
I speak now for my self but maybe someone should open a parallel list for the trivial communications so this very important list will continue to serve it’s original purpose – i.e. info on Ibogaine treatments, procedures, help on line etc.
Warm regards
Boaz Wachtel
From: Kirk [mailto:captkirk@clear.net.nz] 
Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 8:14 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] [Ibogaine] Um OT……. re: thanks etc etc
I mean THANKS…. Lol git yer mitts off dat…
Urhhhhh
‘ave anuvva beer kirky
Why fank u don’t mind if I do!!!
lol
From: Kirk [mailto:captkirk@clear.net.nz] 
Sent: Thursday, 3 November 2005 7:08 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Fw:,for Don, from ron (ot) should be off list
Oi get yer mitts off that welcome, twas MEEE wot helped him out lol
;o)
kirk
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net] 
Sent: Thursday, 3 November 2005 6:49 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw:,for Don, from ron (ot) should be off list
Your Welcome??????

Mark Franzeskos wrote:
thanks

Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz> wrote:
Heh, I was thinking the same thing!!
Ron…. Check the date on your emails before you reply……. I know I know old age is a bitch complicated by eons of drug taking melting most brain matter………so I do understand but try to check ok? Lol
And lol don.. yeh yeh whatever lol j/k
Matt.. yeh he’s doing great! Come on Matt give em all a update!!!  I annoy him on a daily basis to make sure he’s being good  hehhehhe!! Poor bugger!!
Kirk xxx
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net] 
Sent: Thursday, 3 November 2005 6:16 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw:,for Don, from ron (ot) should be off list
Wow, Ron, that was a week ago, we already hashed this out. I’ll say it again, you are OK in my book, and it’s nice to see you talking in complete sentences. Dude, look at your sent box for the week before then, you were spewing crap like a Great Dane on a raisin diet. Nice to have you back, I appreciate your comments and you are fun to talk to MOST OF THE TIME. I just thot you needed a wakeup call, and the motion was supported by others who care about you as well. So, SHUT UP the whining and the self degradation, that crap don’t fly , we are all manipulators here and have not only seen, but DONE it as well. Just be honest, dood. Stop beating yourself up.

One more thing, this is for the room. Remember, WE ARE ALL dealing with mood altering chemicals and like it or not, we CAN type when we CAN’T think. I appreciate the passes I have been given here for my outbursts, and I WILL remember your patience. You guys know who you are.

What happened to Matt Z.? He Ibo’ed and like fell off the planet, is he OK?

Bee

Ron Davis wrote:
Don:
you are correct, i do blank out, contribute very little and am a moron. So where’s the common thread? Us trying to live clean and being comfortable in doing so.  It’s just a dumb guess.  My humor or lack of it ain’t for everyone.  It’s a bit too cynical for guys like me at times but still i type. i don’t take offense at potshots ( momma jokes aside) so have at it anytime the urge strikes. luck to you on your journey and the rest of us.
many die along the way or worse things happen. age and doing the same old stuff have long since rubbed the point off this dude’s ego and intellect.  it’s just my way of saying it ain’t fun, hasn’t been for eons and hope i can get out of this corner i painted myself into, and i did it all by myself, geeze.  follow the winners, not the whiners like me. ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Don Patton
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 11:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw: Stick People to Jason attachment not large I think, bwtfdino exercise caution, I hope I’m getting better, koko OT
Ron, you’re not really adding anyting to the group, we all got chairs here, Yours blanks out at times.

Ron Davis wrote:
primitive for all who read or watch, koko. safe to open if space allows. 
—– Original Message —–
To: < 
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 8:35 AM 
Subject: Stick People
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From: Morning Wood <morning_wood263@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] -ot- correction on my experience
Date: November 3, 2005 at 2:00:55 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
ml not mg
liquid red stuff, starts at 30ml etc…
treatment mode I found most useful is multiple doses of iboga/ine.
4 times within one year (every 3-4 months), with additional small doses also.  (Where it is legal to do this).  If I had the money, that’s the way I would choose to kick a methadone habit and have a very good chance of kicking for good.
plan for boosters .
Personally I wish their were studies about opioids and ibogaine combination therapy for anti-psychotic dose regimens vs. traditional anti-psychotics or anti-depressants.
  And I wish even more that I can be  part of those studies, you know I just want to do my part.
My personal experience is that opioids clear my mind like no other chemical I have ever tried.  If we as a society that as a public policy to have an Apollo program for lessening Human Pain, (and another Apollo type program for Energy, I think we should drill in the Volcano’s but they don’t ask me), then the world would be better for it I think.  If we can harness the benifits of the opioids while glitching the dependence, then the improvement of everyone’s lives increases.  Especially when the molecule that glitches the dependence is so effective as an anti-depressant.
It saddens me that the American goverment seems to be going in the opposite direction from solutions, no one there has the balls to say the reality of the situation regarding drugs and treatment.  Special interest rule Washington I guess.  No suprise there.
 I’m going to the dentist tomorrow, and the Watson’s, just clear my mind, sharper, able to focus, able to read longer etc).
if Iboga/ine were legal, I could reset every week or two, and still have the benifits of opioids, in this case opioids used as anti-psychotic’s, and iboga/ine as an anti-depressant  and opioid tolerance interrupter.
 The acetaminophen in the Watson’s is the problem.  2,000mg is the limit right?  Is that limit the same if dosing? I would imagine that would be too ruff on the liver?
Anyone have any experience with Maxalt (Merks migrain pill) used before/during/after Ibogaine?
Does smoking a bowl of Iboga extract mixed with cannabis a good idea?
Anyways just thoughts and everything is hypothetical of course,
-Jason
PS cat just had kittens
Yahoo! FareChase – Search multiple travel sites in one click.
From: “boaz” <wachtel@shani.net>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Um OT……. re: thanks etc etc
Date: November 3, 2005 at 1:31:33 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I am sorry to say but many of the recent postings on the Ibogaine list are hurting the Ibogaine list because of meaningless communications between few individuals who should communicate between themselves through private e mails.
Some people who have been with the Ibogaine movement since it’s early stages are about to quit the list due to its abuse because I and they believe this list should be used to communicate meaningful information on Ibogaine, and assist people before, during and after treatment  etc.
I speak now for my self but maybe someone should open a parallel list for the trivial communications so this very important list will continue to serve it’s original purpose – i.e. info on Ibogaine treatments, procedures, help on line etc.
Warm regards
Boaz Wachtel
From: Kirk [mailto:captkirk@clear.net.nz] 
Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 8:14 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] [Ibogaine] Um OT……. re: thanks etc etc
I mean THANKS…. Lol git yer mitts off dat…
Urhhhhh
‘ave anuvva beer kirky
Why fank u don’t mind if I do!!!
lol
From: Kirk [mailto:captkirk@clear.net.nz] 
Sent: Thursday, 3 November 2005 7:08 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Fw:,for Don, from ron (ot) should be off list
Oi get yer mitts off that welcome, twas MEEE wot helped him out lol
;o)
kirk
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net] 
Sent: Thursday, 3 November 2005 6:49 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw:,for Don, from ron (ot) should be off list
Your Welcome??????

Mark Franzeskos wrote:
thanks

Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz> wrote:
Heh, I was thinking the same thing!!
Ron…. Check the date on your emails before you reply……. I know I know old age is a bitch complicated by eons of drug taking melting most brain matter………so I do understand but try to check ok? Lol
And lol don.. yeh yeh whatever lol j/k
Matt.. yeh he’s doing great! Come on Matt give em all a update!!!  I annoy him on a daily basis to make sure he’s being good  hehhehhe!! Poor bugger!!
Kirk xxx
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net] 
Sent: Thursday, 3 November 2005 6:16 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw:,for Don, from ron (ot) should be off list
Wow, Ron, that was a week ago, we already hashed this out. I’ll say it again, you are OK in my book, and it’s nice to see you talking in complete sentences. Dude, look at your sent box for the week before then, you were spewing crap like a Great Dane on a raisin diet. Nice to have you back, I appreciate your comments and you are fun to talk to MOST OF THE TIME. I just thot you needed a wakeup call, and the motion was supported by others who care about you as well. So, SHUT UP the whining and the self degradation, that crap don’t fly , we are all manipulators here and have not only seen, but DONE it as well. Just be honest, dood. Stop beating yourself up.

One more thing, this is for the room. Remember, WE ARE ALL dealing with mood altering chemicals and like it or not, we CAN type when we CAN’T think. I appreciate the passes I have been given here for my outbursts, and I WILL remember your patience. You guys know who you are.

What happened to Matt Z.? He Ibo’ed and like fell off the planet, is he OK?

Bee

Ron Davis wrote:
Don:
you are correct, i do blank out, contribute very little and am a moron. So where’s the common thread? Us trying to live clean and being comfortable in doing so.  It’s just a dumb guess.  My humor or lack of it ain’t for everyone.  It’s a bit too cynical for guys like me at times but still i type. i don’t take offense at potshots ( momma jokes aside) so have at it anytime the urge strikes. luck to you on your journey and the rest of us.
many die along the way or worse things happen. age and doing the same old stuff have long since rubbed the point off this dude’s ego and intellect.  it’s just my way of saying it ain’t fun, hasn’t been for eons and hope i can get out of this corner i painted myself into, and i did it all by myself, geeze.  follow the winners, not the whiners like me. ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Don Patton
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 11:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw: Stick People to Jason attachment not large I think, bwtfdino exercise caution, I hope I’m getting better, koko OT
Ron, you’re not really adding anyting to the group, we all got chairs here, Yours blanks out at times.

Ron Davis wrote:
primitive for all who read or watch, koko. safe to open if space allows. 
—– Original Message —–
To: < 
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 8:35 AM 
Subject: Stick People
<hr size=4 width=”90%” align=center>
  /]=———————————————————————=[\
 [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
  \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: Carol Ann <saffireskyes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Erasing memories and its potential for addiction treatment
Date: November 3, 2005 at 1:48:22 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/
A very informataive website, in mvho worth perusing.
Giants in their Advocacy for the maintenance of
intellectual integrity.
— Boris Leshinsky <bleshins@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
http://smh.com.au/news/health/choose-to-forget/2005/11/03/1130823319127.html?page=2
Choose to forget
November 3, 2005
Manipulating memory is now a reality, writes Wendy
Champagne.
The American novelist William Faulkner said: “The
past is never dead. It’s not even past.” Thanks to
memory we have a living history, an identity. Yet
given the opportunity, how many of us would go the
way of Jim Carrey in Eternal Sunshine of the
Spotless Mind and delete or alter that archive of
embarrassing, painful or debilitating memories?
You only have to look at the super-charged growth of
investment in the brain industry – which is
developing devices and drugs – over the past five
years to realise that even if we choose not to use
it, we will soon have the ability to make memories
disappear.
A 2001 study by the World Health Organisation
revealed that more than a fifth of the world’s
population suffers a brain-related illness; that
makes neuroscience this century’s hot-ticket
research area.
A few years ago, at McGill University in Canada,
memory research took a giant leap forward when Dr
Karim Nader, from its psychology department,
“rediscovered reconsolidation”, dispelling the
notion that long-term memory was a fixed entity.
Memories were thought to exist in an unstable state
and over time – a number of hours – they
“consolidated” and stayed that way forever. Nader
demonstrated when we retrieve a memory it is again
transformed into a vulnerable state where it can be
manipulated or lost.
“Experimenting with rats we reactivated a long-term
memory and then, using the drug propranolol, blocked
protein synthesis in the amygdala – one of the
systems crucial for learning and consolidating
memories of fearful events – and the rats were no
longer afraid,” Nader says. “It was bizarre. It
should have been a fixed memory.”
Five years later, the same process has been
demonstrated in snails, honey bees, earthworms,
crabs and, last year, in humans. In September alone
there were two separate memory reconsolidation
studies published in the US neuroscience journal
Neuron. One showed how protein inhibitors can
selectively disrupt memories associated with cocaine
use – the memory of past highs, for example – which
could become the basis of a treatment for addiction.
The idea, Nader says, is not to eliminate the memory
but neutralise the emotional boost we give a memory
when we recall it. He believes there are potential
applications for this kind of treatment in post
traumatic stress disorder (PTSD),
obsessive-compulsive disorder, chronic pain,
epilepsy, addiction or even performance anxiety.
Yet while this research may offer tremendous hope
for the treatment of neurological and psychiatric
disease, it also has tremendous potential for
misuse. The day after Nader’s first study was
published a woman phoned his lab and asked whether
she could have memories of her abusive first husband
erased. “The grey area is quite grey,” Nader says,
“and somebody should determine where we draw a
line.”
Australia has not yet engaged in a serious dialogue
about these neuro-ethical issues, but at the Centre
for Cognitive Liberty and Ethics in California
freedom of thought is a central concern.
The centre’s mission, says its director, Dr Wrye
Sententia, is to safeguard the rights of individuals
who may wish to use new mind-augmenting drugs and
technologies. She admits the “genie is already out
of the bag” when it comes to public access to
neurotechnologies, or brain pharmaceuticals called
“neuroceuticals”, and predicts the growth of a
consumer-driven marketplace for cognitive therapies
just like the industry that’s developed around
plastic surgery.
While giving relief to people haunted by memories of
war or abuse is undoubtedly a positive, the ethical
divide between using drugs to treat memory disorders
and making them available to healthy people for
memory enhancement – “cosmetic neurology” – is not
clear-cut.
Professor Fred Mendelsohn, director of the Howard
Florey Institute in Melbourne, is building on a
discovery he made about a system that aids learning
and memory in rats and mice.
He and his colleagues are trying to develop a
molecule that mimics the action of certain brain
receptors in order to develop a drug that may help
people with memory deficits or disorders, but will
potentially be useful in normal brains as well.
Dr Sententia says this “Viagra for the mind”
approach is occurring on college campuses across the
United States and Australia, where students take
Ritalin to improve learning functions.
Clinical trials of memory enhancers have been
running in the US for some years and,
according to Dr Sententia, the experimental results
of one trial on older men and women with mild
cognitive impairment were so promising the subjects
wanted to stay on the drugs.
Will these marketable cognitive developments lead
consumers to a Carrey-like choice to have a bad
memory erased forever?
“Erasing memory is just silly,” Nader says. “You
don’t want to take things away from people.”
But the field is moving fast. “My bet is at some
point in the next year or two there is going to be
some report testing reconsolidation in conditions
such as PTSD or drug addiction, and showing some
degree of improvement.”
Professor Mendelsohn is equally optimistic about his
work, but remains cautious: “We have a strong effect
– we can start to see a pathway towards developing
it as a medicine – but we still have quite a lot of
work to do.”
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
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\]=———————————————————————=[/
Best regards,
Carol
_______________________________
Never Accept Only Two Choices in Life.
The problems of Today cannot be solved by the same thinking that created them.
-Al Einstein.
__________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! – Make it your home page!
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
 /]=———————————————————————=[\
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 \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] SO TOTALLY OT DONT BOTHER LOL
Date: November 3, 2005 at 1:22:58 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net] 
Sent: Thursday, 3 November 2005 7:13 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw:,for Don, from ron (ot) should be off list
stop messaging me, STOP MESSAGING ME!!!!

lmao!

Kirk wrote:
Oi get yer mitts off that welcome, twas MEEE wot helped him out lol
;o)
kirk
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net] 
Sent: Thursday, 3 November 2005 6:49 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw:,for Don, from ron (ot) should be off list
Your Welcome??????

Mark Franzeskos wrote:
thanks

Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz> wrote:
Heh, I was thinking the same thing!!
Ron…. Check the date on your emails before you reply……. I know I know old age is a bitch complicated by eons of drug taking melting most brain matter………so I do understand but try to check ok? Lol
And lol don.. yeh yeh whatever lol j/k
Matt.. yeh he’s doing great! Come on Matt give em all a update!!!  I annoy him on a daily basis to make sure he’s being good  hehhehhe!! Poor bugger!!
Kirk xxx
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net] 
Sent: Thursday, 3 November 2005 6:16 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw:,for Don, from ron (ot) should be off list
Wow, Ron, that was a week ago, we already hashed this out. I’ll say it again, you are OK in my book, and it’s nice to see you talking in complete sentences. Dude, look at your sent box for the week before then, you were spewing crap like a Great Dane on a raisin diet. Nice to have you back, I appreciate your comments and you are fun to talk to MOST OF THE TIME. I just thot you needed a wakeup call, and the motion was supported by others who care about you as well. So, SHUT UP the whining and the self degradation, that crap don’t fly , we are all manipulators here and have not only seen, but DONE it as well. Just be honest, dood. Stop beating yourself up.

One more thing, this is for the room. Remember, WE ARE ALL dealing with mood altering chemicals and like it or not, we CAN type when we CAN’T think. I appreciate the passes I have been given here for my outbursts, and I WILL remember your patience. You guys know who you are.

What happened to Matt Z.? He Ibo’ed and like fell off the planet, is he OK?

Bee

Ron Davis wrote:
Don:
you are correct, i do blank out, contribute very little and am a moron. So where’s the common thread? Us trying to live clean and being comfortable in doing so.  It’s just a dumb guess.  My humor or lack of it ain’t for everyone.  It’s a bit too cynical for guys like me at times but still i type. i don’t take offense at potshots ( momma jokes aside) so have at it anytime the urge strikes. luck to you on your journey and the rest of us.
many die along the way or worse things happen. age and doing the same old stuff have long since rubbed the point off this dude’s ego and intellect.  it’s just my way of saying it ain’t fun, hasn’t been for eons and hope i can get out of this corner i painted myself into, and i did it all by myself, geeze.  follow the winners, not the whiners like me. ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Don Patton
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 11:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw: Stick People to Jason attachment not large I think, bwtfdino exercise caution, I hope I’m getting better, koko OT
Ron, you’re not really adding anyting to the group, we all got chairs here, Yours blanks out at times.

Ron Davis wrote:
primitive for all who read or watch, koko. safe to open if space allows. 
—– Original Message —–
To: < 
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 8:35 AM 
Subject: Stick People
size=4 width=”90%” align=center>
  /]=———————————————————————=[\
 [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
  \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Um OT……. re: thanks etc etc
Date: November 3, 2005 at 1:13:36 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I mean THANKS…. Lol git yer mitts off dat…
Urhhhhh
‘ave anuvva beer kirky
Why fank u don’t mind if I do!!!
lol
From: Kirk [mailto:captkirk@clear.net.nz] 
Sent: Thursday, 3 November 2005 7:08 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Fw:,for Don, from ron (ot) should be off list
Oi get yer mitts off that welcome, twas MEEE wot helped him out lol
;o)
kirk
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net] 
Sent: Thursday, 3 November 2005 6:49 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw:,for Don, from ron (ot) should be off list
Your Welcome??????

Mark Franzeskos wrote:
thanks

Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz> wrote:
Heh, I was thinking the same thing!!
Ron…. Check the date on your emails before you reply……. I know I know old age is a bitch complicated by eons of drug taking melting most brain matter………so I do understand but try to check ok? Lol
And lol don.. yeh yeh whatever lol j/k
Matt.. yeh he’s doing great! Come on Matt give em all a update!!!  I annoy him on a daily basis to make sure he’s being good  hehhehhe!! Poor bugger!!
Kirk xxx
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net] 
Sent: Thursday, 3 November 2005 6:16 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw:,for Don, from ron (ot) should be off list
Wow, Ron, that was a week ago, we already hashed this out. I’ll say it again, you are OK in my book, and it’s nice to see you talking in complete sentences. Dude, look at your sent box for the week before then, you were spewing crap like a Great Dane on a raisin diet. Nice to have you back, I appreciate your comments and you are fun to talk to MOST OF THE TIME. I just thot you needed a wakeup call, and the motion was supported by others who care about you as well. So, SHUT UP the whining and the self degradation, that crap don’t fly , we are all manipulators here and have not only seen, but DONE it as well. Just be honest, dood. Stop beating yourself up.

One more thing, this is for the room. Remember, WE ARE ALL dealing with mood altering chemicals and like it or not, we CAN type when we CAN’T think. I appreciate the passes I have been given here for my outbursts, and I WILL remember your patience. You guys know who you are.

What happened to Matt Z.? He Ibo’ed and like fell off the planet, is he OK?

Bee

Ron Davis wrote:
Don:
you are correct, i do blank out, contribute very little and am a moron. So where’s the common thread? Us trying to live clean and being comfortable in doing so.  It’s just a dumb guess.  My humor or lack of it ain’t for everyone.  It’s a bit too cynical for guys like me at times but still i type. i don’t take offense at potshots ( momma jokes aside) so have at it anytime the urge strikes. luck to you on your journey and the rest of us.
many die along the way or worse things happen. age and doing the same old stuff have long since rubbed the point off this dude’s ego and intellect.  it’s just my way of saying it ain’t fun, hasn’t been for eons and hope i can get out of this corner i painted myself into, and i did it all by myself, geeze.  follow the winners, not the whiners like me. ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Don Patton
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 11:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw: Stick People to Jason attachment not large I think, bwtfdino exercise caution, I hope I’m getting better, koko OT
Ron, you’re not really adding anyting to the group, we all got chairs here, Yours blanks out at times.

Ron Davis wrote:
primitive for all who read or watch, koko. safe to open if space allows. 
—– Original Message —–
To: < 
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 8:35 AM 
Subject: Stick People
size=4 width=”90%” align=center>
  /]=———————————————————————=[\
 [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
  \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw:,for Don, from ron (ot) should be off list
Date: November 3, 2005 at 1:13:23 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
stop messaging me, STOP MESSAGING ME!!!!
lmao!
Kirk wrote:
Oi get yer mitts off that welcome, twas MEEE wot helped him out lol
;o)
kirk
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net] 
Sent: Thursday, 3 November 2005 6:49 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw:,for Don, from ron (ot) should be off list
Your Welcome??????

Mark Franzeskos wrote:
thanks

Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz> wrote:
Heh, I was thinking the same thing!!
Ron…. Check the date on your emails before you reply……. I know I know old age is a bitch complicated by eons of drug taking melting most brain matter………so I do understand but try to check ok? Lol
And lol don.. yeh yeh whatever lol j/k
Matt.. yeh he’s doing great! Come on Matt give em all a update!!!  I annoy him on a daily basis to make sure he’s being good  hehhehhe!! Poor bugger!!
Kirk xxx
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net] 
Sent: Thursday, 3 November 2005 6:16 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw:,for Don, from ron (ot) should be off list
Wow, Ron, that was a week ago, we already hashed this out. I’ll say it again, you are OK in my book, and it’s nice to see you talking in complete sentences. Dude, look at your sent box for the week before then, you were spewing crap like a Great Dane on a raisin diet. Nice to have you back, I appreciate your comments and you are fun to talk to MOST OF THE TIME. I just thot you needed a wakeup call, and the motion was supported by others who care about you as well. So, SHUT UP the whining and the self degradation, that crap don’t fly , we are all manipulators here and have not only seen, but DONE it as well. Just be honest, dood. Stop beating yourself up.

One more thing, this is for the room. Remember, WE ARE ALL dealing with mood altering chemicals and like it or not, we CAN type when we CAN’T think. I appreciate the passes I have been given here for my outbursts, and I WILL remember your patience. You guys know who you are.

What happened to Matt Z.? He Ibo’ed and like fell off the planet, is he OK?

Bee

Ron Davis wrote:
Don:
you are correct, i do blank out, contribute very little and am a moron. So where’s the common thread? Us trying to live clean and being comfortable in doing so.  It’s just a dumb guess.  My humor or lack of it ain’t for everyone.  It’s a bit too cynical for guys like me at times but still i type. i don’t take offense at potshots ( momma jokes aside) so have at it anytime the urge strikes. luck to you on your journey and the rest of us.
many die along the way or worse things happen. age and doing the same old stuff have long since rubbed the point off this dude’s ego and intellect.  it’s just my way of saying it ain’t fun, hasn’t been for eons and hope i can get out of this corner i painted myself into, and i did it all by myself, geeze.  follow the winners, not the whiners like me. ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Don Patton
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 11:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw: Stick People to Jason attachment not large I think, bwtfdino exercise caution, I hope I’m getting better, koko OT
Ron, you’re not really adding anyting to the group, we all got chairs here, Yours blanks out at times.

Ron Davis wrote:
primitive for all who read or watch, koko. safe to open if space allows. 
—– Original Message —–
To: < 
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 8:35 AM 
Subject: Stick People
  /]=———————————————————————=[\
 [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
  \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Fw:,for Don, from ron (ot) should be off list
Date: November 3, 2005 at 1:07:49 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Oi get yer mitts off that welcome, twas MEEE wot helped him out lol
;o)
kirk
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net] 
Sent: Thursday, 3 November 2005 6:49 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw:,for Don, from ron (ot) should be off list
Your Welcome??????

Mark Franzeskos wrote:
thanks

Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz> wrote:
Heh, I was thinking the same thing!!
Ron…. Check the date on your emails before you reply……. I know I know old age is a bitch complicated by eons of drug taking melting most brain matter………so I do understand but try to check ok? Lol
And lol don.. yeh yeh whatever lol j/k
Matt.. yeh he’s doing great! Come on Matt give em all a update!!!  I annoy him on a daily basis to make sure he’s being good  hehhehhe!! Poor bugger!!
Kirk xxx
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net] 
Sent: Thursday, 3 November 2005 6:16 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw:,for Don, from ron (ot) should be off list
Wow, Ron, that was a week ago, we already hashed this out. I’ll say it again, you are OK in my book, and it’s nice to see you talking in complete sentences. Dude, look at your sent box for the week before then, you were spewing crap like a Great Dane on a raisin diet. Nice to have you back, I appreciate your comments and you are fun to talk to MOST OF THE TIME. I just thot you needed a wakeup call, and the motion was supported by others who care about you as well. So, SHUT UP the whining and the self degradation, that crap don’t fly , we are all manipulators here and have not only seen, but DONE it as well. Just be honest, dood. Stop beating yourself up.

One more thing, this is for the room. Remember, WE ARE ALL dealing with mood altering chemicals and like it or not, we CAN type when we CAN’T think. I appreciate the passes I have been given here for my outbursts, and I WILL remember your patience. You guys know who you are.

What happened to Matt Z.? He Ibo’ed and like fell off the planet, is he OK?

Bee

Ron Davis wrote:
Don:
you are correct, i do blank out, contribute very little and am a moron. So where’s the common thread? Us trying to live clean and being comfortable in doing so.  It’s just a dumb guess.  My humor or lack of it ain’t for everyone.  It’s a bit too cynical for guys like me at times but still i type. i don’t take offense at potshots ( momma jokes aside) so have at it anytime the urge strikes. luck to you on your journey and the rest of us.
many die along the way or worse things happen. age and doing the same old stuff have long since rubbed the point off this dude’s ego and intellect.  it’s just my way of saying it ain’t fun, hasn’t been for eons and hope i can get out of this corner i painted myself into, and i did it all by myself, geeze.  follow the winners, not the whiners like me. ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Don Patton
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 11:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw: Stick People to Jason attachment not large I think, bwtfdino exercise caution, I hope I’m getting better, koko OT
Ron, you’re not really adding anyting to the group, we all got chairs here, Yours blanks out at times.

Ron Davis wrote:
primitive for all who read or watch, koko. safe to open if space allows. 
—– Original Message —–
To: < 
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 8:35 AM 
Subject: Stick People
  /]=———————————————————————=[\
 [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
  \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw:,for Don, from ron (ot) should be off list
Date: November 3, 2005 at 12:48:59 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Your Welcome??????
Mark Franzeskos wrote:
thanks
Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz> wrote:
Heh, I was thinking the same thing!!
Ron…. Check the date on your emails before you reply……. I know I know old age is a bitch complicated by eons of drug taking melting most brain matter………so I do understand but try to check ok? Lol
And lol don.. yeh yeh whatever lol j/k
Matt.. yeh he’s doing great! Come on Matt give em all a update!!!  I annoy him on a daily basis to make sure he’s being good  hehhehhe!! Poor bugger!!
Kirk xxx
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net] 
Sent: Thursday, 3 November 2005 6:16 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw:,for Don, from ron (ot) should be off list
Wow, Ron, that was a week ago, we already hashed this out. I’ll say it again, you are OK in my book, and it’s nice to see you talking in complete sentences. Dude, look at your sent box for the week before then, you were spewing crap like a Great Dane on a raisin diet. Nice to have you back, I appreciate your comments and you are fun to talk to MOST OF THE TIME. I just thot you needed a wakeup call, and the motion was supported by others who care about you as well. So, SHUT UP the whining and the self degradation, that crap don’t fly , we are all manipulators here and have not only seen, but DONE it as well. Just be honest, dood. Stop beating yourself up.

One more thing, this is for the room. Remember, WE ARE ALL dealing with mood altering chemicals and like it or not, we CAN type when we CAN’T think. I appreciate the passes I have been given here for my outbursts, and I WILL remember your patience. You guys know who you are.

What happened to Matt Z.? He Ibo’ed and like fell off the planet, is he OK?

Bee

Ron Davis wrote:
Don:
you are correct, i do blank out, contribute very little and am a moron. So where’s the common thread? Us trying to live clean and being comfortable in doing so.  It’s just a dumb guess.  My humor or lack of it ain’t for everyone.  It’s a bit too cynical for guys like me at times but still i type. i don’t take offense at potshots ( momma jokes aside) so have at it anytime the urge strikes. luck to you on your journey and the rest of us.
many die along the way or worse things happen. age and doing the same old stuff have long since rubbed the point off this dude’s ego and intellect.  it’s just my way of saying it ain’t fun, hasn’t been for eons and hope i can get out of this corner i painted myself into, and i did it all by myself, geeze.  follow the winners, not the whiners like me. ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Don Patton
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 11:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw: Stick People to Jason attachment not large I think, bwtfdino exercise caution, I hope I’m getting better, koko OT
Ron, you’re not really adding anyting to the group, we all got chairs here, Yours blanks out at times.

Ron Davis wrote:
primitive for all who read or watch, koko. safe to open if space allows. 
—– Original Message —–
To: < 
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 8:35 AM 
Subject: Stick People
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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Erasing memories and its potential for addiction treatment
Date: November 3, 2005 at 12:46:00 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Ohh I have yet to see Eternal…. wotsits!!!
Thanks! Very interesting!
How are you doing Boris???
Good to see you again
Kirk xx
—–Original Message—–
From: Boris Leshinsky [mailto:bleshins@bigpond.net.au]
Sent: Thursday, 3 November 2005 6:39 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Erasing memories and its potential for addiction
treatment
http://smh.com.au/news/health/choose-to-forget/2005/11/03/1130823319127.html
?page=2
Choose to forget
November 3, 2005
Manipulating memory is now a reality, writes Wendy Champagne.
The American novelist William Faulkner said: “The past is never dead. It’s
not even past.” Thanks to memory we have a living history, an identity. Yet
given the opportunity, how many of us would go the way of Jim Carrey in
Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind and delete or alter that archive of
embarrassing, painful or debilitating memories?
You only have to look at the super-charged growth of investment in the brain
industry – which is developing devices and drugs – over the past five years
to realise that even if we choose not to use it, we will soon have the
ability to make memories disappear.
A 2001 study by the World Health Organisation revealed that more than a
fifth of the world’s population suffers a brain-related illness; that makes
neuroscience this century’s hot-ticket research area.
A few years ago, at McGill University in Canada, memory research took a
giant leap forward when Dr Karim Nader, from its psychology department,
“rediscovered reconsolidation”, dispelling the notion that long-term memory
was a fixed entity.
Memories were thought to exist in an unstable state and over time – a number
of hours – they “consolidated” and stayed that way forever. Nader
demonstrated when we retrieve a memory it is again transformed into a
vulnerable state where it can be manipulated or lost.
“Experimenting with rats we reactivated a long-term memory and then, using
the drug propranolol, blocked protein synthesis in the amygdala – one of the
systems crucial for learning and consolidating memories of fearful events –
and the rats were no longer afraid,” Nader says. “It was bizarre. It should
have been a fixed memory.”
Five years later, the same process has been demonstrated in snails, honey
bees, earthworms, crabs and, last year, in humans. In September alone there
were two separate memory reconsolidation studies published in the US
neuroscience journal Neuron. One showed how protein inhibitors can
selectively disrupt memories associated with cocaine use – the memory of
past highs, for example – which could become the basis of a treatment for
addiction.
The idea, Nader says, is not to eliminate the memory but neutralise the
emotional boost we give a memory when we recall it. He believes there are
potential applications for this kind of treatment in post traumatic stress
disorder (PTSD), obsessive-compulsive disorder, chronic pain, epilepsy,
addiction or even performance anxiety.
Yet while this research may offer tremendous hope for the treatment of
neurological and psychiatric disease, it also has tremendous potential for
misuse. The day after Nader’s first study was published a woman phoned his
lab and asked whether she could have memories of her abusive first husband
erased. “The grey area is quite grey,” Nader says, “and somebody should
determine where we draw a line.”
Australia has not yet engaged in a serious dialogue about these
neuro-ethical issues, but at the Centre for Cognitive Liberty and Ethics in
California freedom of thought is a central concern.
The centre’s mission, says its director, Dr Wrye Sententia, is to safeguard
the rights of individuals who may wish to use new mind-augmenting drugs and
technologies. She admits the “genie is already out of the bag” when it comes
to public access to neurotechnologies, or brain pharmaceuticals called
“neuroceuticals”, and predicts the growth of a consumer-driven marketplace
for cognitive therapies just like the industry that’s developed around
plastic surgery.
While giving relief to people haunted by memories of war or abuse is
undoubtedly a positive, the ethical divide between using drugs to treat
memory disorders and making them available to healthy people for memory
enhancement – “cosmetic neurology” – is not clear-cut.
Professor Fred Mendelsohn, director of the Howard Florey Institute in
Melbourne, is building on a discovery he made about a system that aids
learning and memory in rats and mice.
He and his colleagues are trying to develop a molecule that mimics the
action of certain brain receptors in order to develop a drug that may help
people with memory deficits or disorders, but will potentially be useful in
normal brains as well.
Dr Sententia says this “Viagra for the mind” approach is occurring on
college campuses across the United States and Australia, where students take
Ritalin to improve learning functions.
Clinical trials of memory enhancers have been running in the US for some
years and,
according to Dr Sententia, the experimental results of one trial on older
men and women with mild cognitive impairment were so promising the subjects
wanted to stay on the drugs.
Will these marketable cognitive developments lead consumers to a Carrey-like
choice to have a bad memory erased forever?
“Erasing memory is just silly,” Nader says. “You don’t want to take things
away from people.”
But the field is moving fast. “My bet is at some point in the next year or
two there is going to be some report testing reconsolidation in conditions
such as PTSD or drug addiction, and showing some degree of improvement.”
Professor Mendelsohn is equally optimistic about his work, but remains
cautious: “We have a strong effect – we can start to see a pathway towards
developing it as a medicine – but we still have quite a lot of work to do.”
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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] MARK you need to unsubscribe!!!!!
Date: November 3, 2005 at 12:43:31 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I didn’t mean that……. Lol I gotta stop replying without thinking. See Ron?? Brain matter melting!! lol
From: Kirk [mailto:captkirk@clear.net.nz] 
Sent: Thursday, 3 November 2005 6:37 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] MARK you need to unsubscribe!!!!!
God you’re thick MARK lol figure it out already!!!
From: Mark Franzeskos [mailto:nsxy1@sbcglobal.net] 
Sent: Thursday, 3 November 2005 6:09 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] that list of questions thing
stop sending messages

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
BTW, I’ve been really lazy about scanning in the cat photos, so please bare 
with me for a bit, I’m still planning on doing it, I’ve just been, well, as 
noted, really lazy.

Speaking of being lazy, I can’t believe I’m about to do this, but here goes:

1. What time is it, Start time? 4:55 PM Eastern time.

2. Your name: …… Preston Thomas Peet

3. Nickname: ………. Don’t have one and hate when people call me by one 
or another “nick” name- but I don’t mind the name Nick though. So long as 
I’m not the one being called Nick.
;-))

4. Pirecing’s:…………….Just went through this, but I’ll do it again 
in slightly more detail:
11 Ear piercings
2 lip piercings.
1 Eye brow piercing (two but one ripped so I had to do it again) but I 
can’t really count that one any more as I’ve stopped wearing a ring there 
and probably will continue to stay ringless there.
3 Nipple piercings
1 Tongue piercing
2 Nose piercings
2 genital (penis) piercings. 3 if you count the old Prince Albert, but 
since I don’t wear it as a Prince Albert I don’t count it- other than for 
the fact that that PA piercing left me with some somewhat interesting story 
material, meaning it was the material I was writing about in the very first 
article I “sold”- and of course, never got actually paid for as the guys 
ripped me off and “stole” the article. Remind me to recount the tale of that 
particular piercing sometime, it’s good and bloody and quite funny too, in 
one of those “oooo, wince, ouch, that sounds painful” sorts of ways.) I 
think I wrote 20 piercings this morning, but forgot about the tongue (or at 
least I think that’s the one I forgot), so it’s actually 21 piercings 
currently.

5. What is the most recent movie you’ve seen in the theater: Hitchhicker’s 
Guide…whoops, no, that’s not right, it was Fantastic Four, but only ’cause 
I thought I was in it.

6. What is your eye color: Hazel

7. Place of birth: Ft. Meyers, Florida (but live now on Manhattan, NY)

8. Favorite food: stuff without meat in it, but stuff with dairy and/or eggs 
is ok. Soft food because my teeth are bad. Ummm, I HATE food, usually hurts 
my guts to some degree or other to eat anything at all whatsoever, and hurts 
my mouth, and, well, I just don’t really enjoy eating that much.

9.Ever been to Africa: No

10. Ever been toilet papering: No, but I’ve had to clean up someone else’s 
tp’ering.

11. Love someone so much it made you cry: OF COURSE, SEVERAL TIMES (how 
could I put this answer, Brenda’s I think, any better? I couldn’t so I left 
it alone, as with one or two others too.)

12. Been in a car accident: Oh yeah, a realy doozy of a humdinger.

13. Croutons or bacon bits: egad, croutons if they aren’t stale like they 
usually are in restaurants.

14. Favorite day of the week:……..DEPENDS (Go ahead, accuse me of 
plagiarizing, I don’t mind.)

15. Favorite restaurants: Red Bamboo, W. 4th St., in the West Village near 
Washington Square park.

16. Favorite flower: marijuana, poppies, sun flowers.

17. Favorite sport to watch: Surfing, and Miami Dolphins games, although 
they usually start losing as soon as I turn the game on so I’ve pretty near 
given that up. And besides, I hate many sports activities, or at least, hate 
the attitude and mentality that accompanies so many sporting events that I 
can’t (no, I mean, “won’t”) even watch them on tv, much less live. 
Occassionally I do like to watch a good boxing match though, but not live in 
the stadium or whereever the event is taking place. I saw Butthole Surfers 
at the WWF arena in Times Square a few years ago, while on a peanutbutter 
and mushroom sandwhich, but I guess I wasn’t really at a sporting event 
other than for staying through the horrific noise being “created” by 
whomever it was the band had hired to open for them by “playing” the 
shreikingest, ugliest, disturbing in a bad way “music” with his laptop- and 
the fact that Butthole Surfers were, unbeknownst to them, at the time in 
competition with Jane’s Addicton- (see 
http://www.drugwar.com/pshroomshows.shtm for more on that competition and to 
find out who won, if you’re new here and haven’t yet read this article).

18. Favorite drink: Coffee, water.

19. Favorite ice cream: Tough one. Starbuck’s Java Chip and Starbuck’s 
Coffee Almond Fudge. (I know, Starbuck’s, I supporting the MAN, but oh well, 
they make awfully good ice cream, and coffee too come to think of it- though 
WAY TOO EXPENSIVE so their little chain stores rarely get my business, and I 
buy the icecream at the grocery store.)

20. Disney or Warner Brothers: There’s stuff I like about both, stuff I 
hate, so it’s a tie.

21. Favorite fast food restaurant: The one where the food is really, really 
slow so I don’t have to run very fast to catch it. Of course, it’s the rare 
vegetable that can outrun me even on a bad day, so….)

22. What color is the carpet of your bedroom: We have a wooden floor in the 
”bedroom” (now more of a “walk-in closet/sewing room due to a cat we still 
live with making it his own the first Winter he spent here after V rescued 
him- we were told by more than one “professional” cat rescuer than our best 
bet would be to somehow manage to get him back into one of the traps or cat 
carrying case and get him “fixed,” then turn him loose back outside because 
he was too ferel and would “never ever” allow us to touch him, much less pet 
and carress him- LOL, he still won’t let us pick him up, but he’s a total 
petmerightnowaholic nowadays.) with a supposedly beautiful oriental rug 
rolled up and leaning in the corner that I’ve only seen teeny bits of as 
it’s been rolled up since V’s mom gave it to us- it’s too big for a Lower 
East side apartment like ours.

23. How many times you failed your drivers test: Never failed it (and only 
had to pay $1 for the added “liscensed for motorcycles” on mine)- but lost 
it within three years due to unpaid tickets..

24. Before this one, from whom did you get your last email: Callie, in the 
form of a post to the ibogaine list.

25. Which store would you choose to Max out your credit card: My credit 
cards got maxed out long ago at the dentist- although I do have one where I 
keep getting it back up to around a hundred bucks before needing to max it 
out again, and that’s always buying groceries- which is weird I just 
realized considering I don’t like to eat all that much.

26. What do you do most often when you are bored: Masturbate, sleep, smoke. 
I’d include reading, but I’m never bored when reading, or at least not 
usually, so that’s not on my “do while bored” list. For that matter, I 
seldom find myself feeling “bored” because I’ve usually got something to do, 
even if it’s “just” masturbating.
;-))

27. Who will respond to this e-mail the quickest: those with lots of time on 
their hands.

28. Who is the person you sent this to is least likely to respond: Those who 
are either too grouchy or too haughty to bother or care to take the time to 
do so, or too busy, or simply too cool.

29. Who are you the most curious about their responses to this
questionnaire: I’ve got no preferences.

30. Favorite TV shows: The Daily Show, the new Steven Colbert Report, 
Cand -Span’s Washington Journal. Oh, and the Dave Chappell show (sp?), 
particularly the one where Eddie Murphy’s brother tells the stories about 
his friendship with Rick James, one of the funniest tv show episodes ever 
made, in my own humble opinion of course.

31. Last person you went to dinner with: V, my companion and lover of nine 
years as of Halloween.

32. Ford or Chevy: A motorcycle or bicycle or my feet. Neither Chevy or Ford 
or any other US (or any country’s) gas guzzling, system supporting, nature 
killing automaker gets my vote. But that’s just me and about a few thousand 
others I guess.

33. What are you listening to right now: City Crickets…oh, nope they just 
stopped and the siren just went past, so let’s see…it’s still noises 
coming in the window from NYC. Gosdh, actually, it’s pretty quiet, except V 
just turned on the Dust Buster…nope that stopped too. Her heels on the 
wood floor? Lots of different things.

34. What is your favorite color: Purple, black.

35. How many tattoos do you have: 5

36. How many pets do you have? 9 cats currently, but I don’t “have” them, I 
merely share my apartment with them.
(it’s now 5:30PM Eastern time.)


Peace and love,
Preston Peet

”Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often 
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, 
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc. 



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From: Mark Franzeskos <nsxy1@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] who do you recommend getting Ibogaine from?
Date: November 3, 2005 at 12:41:03 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net> wrote:
Well, I was trying to get a distributorship, but it didn’t work out…..
Day Brown wrote:
> and at what price?
>
>
>
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>
>
>
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From: Mark Franzeskos <nsxy1@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Fw:,for Don, from ron (ot) should be off list
Date: November 3, 2005 at 12:40:15 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
thanks
Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz> wrote:
Heh, I was thinking the same thing!!
Ron…. Check the date on your emails before you reply……. I know I know old age is a bitch complicated by eons of drug taking melting most brain matter………so I do understand but try to check ok? Lol
And lol don.. yeh yeh whatever lol j/k
Matt.. yeh he’s doing great! Come on Matt give em all a update!!!  I annoy him on a daily basis to make sure he’s being good  hehhehhe!! Poor bugger!!
Kirk xxx
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net] 
Sent: Thursday, 3 November 2005 6:16 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw:,for Don, from ron (ot) should be off list
Wow, Ron, that was a week ago, we already hashed this out. I’ll say it again, you are OK in my book, and it’s nice to see you talking in complete sentences. Dude, look at your sent box for the week before then, you were spewing crap like a Great Dane on a raisin diet. Nice to have you back, I appreciate your comments and you are fun to talk to MOST OF THE TIME. I just thot you needed a wakeup call, and the motion was supported by others who care about you as well. So, SHUT UP the whining and the self degradation, that crap don’t fly , we are all manipulators here and have not only seen, but DONE it as well. Just be honest, dood. Stop beating yourself up.

One more thing, this is for the room. Remember, WE ARE ALL dealing with mood altering chemicals and like it or not, we CAN type when we CAN’T think. I appreciate the passes I have been given here for my outbursts, and I WILL remember your patience. You guys know who you are.

What happened to Matt Z.? He Ibo’ed and like fell off the planet, is he OK?

Bee

Ron Davis wrote:
Don:
you are correct, i do blank out, contribute very little and am a moron. So where’s the common thread? Us trying to live clean and being comfortable in doing so.  It’s just a dumb guess.  My humor or lack of it ain’t for everyone.  It’s a bit too cynical for guys like me at times but still i type. i don’t take offense at potshots ( momma jokes aside) so have at it anytime the urge strikes. luck to you on your journey and the rest of us.
many die along the way or worse things happen. age and doing the same old stuff have long since rubbed the point off this dude’s ego and intellect.  it’s just my way of saying it ain’t fun, hasn’t been for eons and hope i can get out of this corner i painted myself into, and i did it all by myself, geeze.  follow the winners, not the whiners like me. ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Don Patton
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 11:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw: Stick People to Jason attachment not large I think, bwtfdino exercise caution, I hope I’m getting better, koko OT
Ron, you’re not really adding anyting to the group, we all got chairs here, Yours blanks out at times.

Ron Davis wrote:
primitive for all who read or watch, koko. safe to open if space allows. 
—– Original Message —–
To: < 
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 8:35 AM 
Subject: Stick People
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From: Boris Leshinsky <bleshins@bigpond.net.au>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Erasing memories and its potential for addiction treatment
Date: November 3, 2005 at 12:39:05 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
http://smh.com.au/news/health/choose-to-forget/2005/11/03/1130823319127.html?page=2
Choose to forget
November 3, 2005
Manipulating memory is now a reality, writes Wendy Champagne.
The American novelist William Faulkner said: “The past is never dead. It’s not even past.” Thanks to memory we have a living history, an identity. Yet given the opportunity, how many of us would go the way of Jim Carrey in Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind and delete or alter that archive of embarrassing, painful or debilitating memories?
You only have to look at the super-charged growth of investment in the brain industry – which is developing devices and drugs – over the past five years to realise that even if we choose not to use it, we will soon have the ability to make memories disappear.
A 2001 study by the World Health Organisation revealed that more than a fifth of the world’s population suffers a brain-related illness; that makes neuroscience this century’s hot-ticket research area.
A few years ago, at McGill University in Canada, memory research took a giant leap forward when Dr Karim Nader, from its psychology department, “rediscovered reconsolidation”, dispelling the notion that long-term memory was a fixed entity.
Memories were thought to exist in an unstable state and over time – a number of hours – they “consolidated” and stayed that way forever. Nader demonstrated when we retrieve a memory it is again transformed into a vulnerable state where it can be manipulated or lost.
“Experimenting with rats we reactivated a long-term memory and then, using the drug propranolol, blocked protein synthesis in the amygdala – one of the systems crucial for learning and consolidating memories of fearful events – and the rats were no longer afraid,” Nader says. “It was bizarre. It should have been a fixed memory.”
Five years later, the same process has been demonstrated in snails, honey bees, earthworms, crabs and, last year, in humans. In September alone there were two separate memory reconsolidation studies published in the US neuroscience journal Neuron. One showed how protein inhibitors can selectively disrupt memories associated with cocaine use – the memory of past highs, for example – which could become the basis of a treatment for addiction.
The idea, Nader says, is not to eliminate the memory but neutralise the emotional boost we give a memory when we recall it. He believes there are potential applications for this kind of treatment in post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), obsessive-compulsive disorder, chronic pain, epilepsy, addiction or even performance anxiety.
Yet while this research may offer tremendous hope for the treatment of neurological and psychiatric disease, it also has tremendous potential for misuse. The day after Nader’s first study was published a woman phoned his lab and asked whether she could have memories of her abusive first husband erased. “The grey area is quite grey,” Nader says, “and somebody should determine where we draw a line.”
Australia has not yet engaged in a serious dialogue about these neuro-ethical issues, but at the Centre for Cognitive Liberty and Ethics in California freedom of thought is a central concern.
The centre’s mission, says its director, Dr Wrye Sententia, is to safeguard the rights of individuals who may wish to use new mind-augmenting drugs and technologies. She admits the “genie is already out of the bag” when it comes to public access to neurotechnologies, or brain pharmaceuticals called “neuroceuticals”, and predicts the growth of a consumer-driven marketplace for cognitive therapies just like the industry that’s developed around plastic surgery.
While giving relief to people haunted by memories of war or abuse is undoubtedly a positive, the ethical divide between using drugs to treat memory disorders and making them available to healthy people for memory enhancement – “cosmetic neurology” – is not clear-cut.
Professor Fred Mendelsohn, director of the Howard Florey Institute in Melbourne, is building on a discovery he made about a system that aids learning and memory in rats and mice.
He and his colleagues are trying to develop a molecule that mimics the action of certain brain receptors in order to develop a drug that may help people with memory deficits or disorders, but will potentially be useful in normal brains as well.
Dr Sententia says this “Viagra for the mind” approach is occurring on college campuses across the United States and Australia, where students take Ritalin to improve learning functions.
Clinical trials of memory enhancers have been running in the US for some years and,
according to Dr Sententia, the experimental results of one trial on older men and women with mild cognitive impairment were so promising the subjects wanted to stay on the drugs.
Will these marketable cognitive developments lead consumers to a Carrey-like choice to have a bad memory erased forever?
“Erasing memory is just silly,” Nader says. “You don’t want to take things away from people.”
But the field is moving fast. “My bet is at some point in the next year or two there is going to be some report testing reconsolidation in conditions such as PTSD or drug addiction, and showing some degree of improvement.”
Professor Mendelsohn is equally optimistic about his work, but remains cautious: “We have a strong effect – we can start to see a pathway towards developing it as a medicine – but we still have quite a lot of work to do.”
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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] MARK you need to unsubscribe!!!!!
Date: November 3, 2005 at 12:36:31 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
God you’re thick MARK lol figure it out already!!!
From: Mark Franzeskos [mailto:nsxy1@sbcglobal.net] 
Sent: Thursday, 3 November 2005 6:09 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] that list of questions thing
stop sending messages

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
BTW, I’ve been really lazy about scanning in the cat photos, so please bare 
with me for a bit, I’m still planning on doing it, I’ve just been, well, as 
noted, really lazy.

Speaking of being lazy, I can’t believe I’m about to do this, but here goes:

1. What time is it, Start time? 4:55 PM Eastern time.

2. Your name: …… Preston Thomas Peet

3. Nickname: ………. Don’t have one and hate when people call me by one 
or another “nick” name- but I don’t mind the name Nick though. So long as 
I’m not the one being called Nick.
;-))

4. Pirecing’s:…………….Just went through this, but I’ll do it again 
in slightly more detail:
11 Ear piercings
2 lip piercings.
1 Eye brow piercing (two but one ripped so I had to do it again) but I 
can’t really count that one any more as I’ve stopped wearing a ring there 
and probably will continue to stay ringless there.
3 Nipple piercings
1 Tongue piercing
2 Nose piercings
2 genital (penis) piercings. 3 if you count the old Prince Albert, but 
since I don’t wear it as a Prince Albert I don’t count it- other than for 
the fact that that PA piercing left me with some somewhat interesting story 
material, meaning it was the material I was writing about in the very first 
article I “sold”- and of course, never got actually paid for as the guys 
ripped me off and “stole” the article. Remind me to recount the tale of that 
particular piercing sometime, it’s good and bloody and quite funny too, in 
one of those “oooo, wince, ouch, that sounds painful” sorts of ways.) I 
think I wrote 20 piercings this morning, but forgot about the tongue (or at 
least I think that’s the one I forgot), so it’s actually 21 piercings 
currently.

5. What is the most recent movie you’ve seen in the theater: Hitchhicker’s 
Guide…whoops, no, that’s not right, it was Fantastic Four, but only ’cause 
I thought I was in it.

6. What is your eye color: Hazel

7. Place of birth: Ft. Meyers, Florida (but live now on Manhattan, NY)

8. Favorite food: stuff without meat in it, but stuff with dairy and/or eggs 
is ok. Soft food because my teeth are bad. Ummm, I HATE food, usually hurts 
my guts to some degree or other to eat anything at all whatsoever, and hurts 
my mouth, and, well, I just don’t really enjoy eating that much.

9.Ever been to Africa: No

10. Ever been toilet papering: No, but I’ve had to clean up someone else’s 
tp’ering.

11. Love someone so much it made you cry: OF COURSE, SEVERAL TIMES (how 
could I put this answer, Brenda’s I think, any better? I couldn’t so I left 
it alone, as with one or two others too.)

12. Been in a car accident: Oh yeah, a realy doozy of a humdinger.

13. Croutons or bacon bits: egad, croutons if they aren’t stale like they 
usually are in restaurants.

14. Favorite day of the week:……..DEPENDS (Go ahead, accuse me of 
plagiarizing, I don’t mind.)

15. Favorite restaurants: Red Bamboo, W. 4th St., in the West Village near 
Washington Square park.

16. Favorite flower: marijuana, poppies, sun flowers.

17. Favorite sport to watch: Surfing, and Miami Dolphins games, although 
they usually start losing as soon as I turn the game on so I’ve pretty near 
given that up. And besides, I hate many sports activities, or at least, hate 
the attitude and mentality that accompanies so many sporting events that I 
can’t (no, I mean, “won’t”) even watch them on tv, much less live. 
Occassionally I do like to watch a good boxing match though, but not live in 
the stadium or whereever the event is taking place. I saw Butthole Surfers 
at the WWF arena in Times Square a few years ago, while on a peanutbutter 
and mushroom sandwhich, but I guess I wasn’t really at a sporting event 
other than for staying through the horrific noise being “created” by 
whomever it was the band had hired to open for them by “playing” the 
shreikingest, ugliest, disturbing in a bad way “music” with his laptop- and 
the fact that Butthole Surfers were, unbeknownst to them, at the time in 
competition with Jane’s Addicton- (see 
http://www.drugwar.com/pshroomshows.shtm for more on that competition and to 
find out who won, if you’re new here and haven’t yet read this article).

18. Favorite drink: Coffee, water.

19. Favorite ice cream: Tough one. Starbuck’s Java Chip and Starbuck’s 
Coffee Almond Fudge. (I know, Starbuck’s, I supporting the MAN, but oh well, 
they make awfully good ice cream, and coffee too come to think of it- though 
WAY TOO EXPENSIVE so their little chain stores rarely get my business, and I 
buy the icecream at the grocery store.)

20. Disney or Warner Brothers: There’s stuff I like about both, stuff I 
hate, so it’s a tie.

21. Favorite fast food restaurant: The one where the food is really, really 
slow so I don’t have to run very fast to catch it. Of course, it’s the rare 
vegetable that can outrun me even on a bad day, so….)

22. What color is the carpet of your bedroom: We have a wooden floor in the 
”bedroom” (now more of a “walk-in closet/sewing room due to a cat we still 
live with making it his own the first Winter he spent here after V rescued 
him- we were told by more than one “professional” cat rescuer than our best 
bet would be to somehow manage to get him back into one of the traps or cat 
carrying case and get him “fixed,” then turn him loose back outside because 
he was too ferel and would “never ever” allow us to touch him, much less pet 
and carress him- LOL, he still won’t let us pick him up, but he’s a total 
petmerightnowaholic nowadays.) with a supposedly beautiful oriental rug 
rolled up and leaning in the corner that I’ve only seen teeny bits of as 
it’s been rolled up since V’s mom gave it to us- it’s too big for a Lower 
East side apartment like ours.

23. How many times you failed your drivers test: Never failed it (and only 
had to pay $1 for the added “liscensed for motorcycles” on mine)- but lost 
it within three years due to unpaid tickets..

24. Before this one, from whom did you get your last email: Callie, in the 
form of a post to the ibogaine list.

25. Which store would you choose to Max out your credit card: My credit 
cards got maxed out long ago at the dentist- although I do have one where I 
keep getting it back up to around a hundred bucks before needing to max it 
out again, and that’s always buying groceries- which is weird I just 
realized considering I don’t like to eat all that much.

26. What do you do most often when you are bored: Masturbate, sleep, smoke. 
I’d include reading, but I’m never bored when reading, or at least not 
usually, so that’s not on my “do while bored” list. For that matter, I 
seldom find myself feeling “bored” because I’ve usually got something to do, 
even if it’s “just” masturbating.
;-))

27. Who will respond to this e-mail the quickest: those with lots of time on 
their hands.

28. Who is the person you sent this to is least likely to respond: Those who 
are either too grouchy or too haughty to bother or care to take the time to 
do so, or too busy, or simply too cool.

29. Who are you the most curious about their responses to this
questionnaire: I’ve got no preferences.

30. Favorite TV shows: The Daily Show, the new Steven Colbert Report, 
Cand -Span’s Washington Journal. Oh, and the Dave Chappell show (sp?), 
particularly the one where Eddie Murphy’s brother tells the stories about 
his friendship with Rick James, one of the funniest tv show episodes ever 
made, in my own humble opinion of course.

31. Last person you went to dinner with: V, my companion and lover of nine 
years as of Halloween.

32. Ford or Chevy: A motorcycle or bicycle or my feet. Neither Chevy or Ford 
or any other US (or any country’s) gas guzzling, system supporting, nature 
killing automaker gets my vote. But that’s just me and about a few thousand 
others I guess.

33. What are you listening to right now: City Crickets…oh, nope they just 
stopped and the siren just went past, so let’s see…it’s still noises 
coming in the window from NYC. Gosdh, actually, it’s pretty quiet, except V 
just turned on the Dust Buster…nope that stopped too. Her heels on the 
wood floor? Lots of different things.

34. What is your favorite color: Purple, black.

35. How many tattoos do you have: 5

36. How many pets do you have? 9 cats currently, but I don’t “have” them, I 
merely share my apartment with them.
(it’s now 5:30PM Eastern time.)


Peace and love,
Preston Peet

”Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often 
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, 
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc. 



/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Fw:,for Don, from ron (ot) should be off list
Date: November 3, 2005 at 12:33:49 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Heh, I was thinking the same thing!!
Ron…. Check the date on your emails before you reply……. I know I know old age is a bitch complicated by eons of drug taking melting most brain matter………so I do understand but try to check ok? Lol
And lol don.. yeh yeh whatever lol j/k
Matt.. yeh he’s doing great! Come on Matt give em all a update!!!  I annoy him on a daily basis to make sure he’s being good  hehhehhe!! Poor bugger!!
Kirk xxx
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net] 
Sent: Thursday, 3 November 2005 6:16 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw:,for Don, from ron (ot) should be off list
Wow, Ron, that was a week ago, we already hashed this out. I’ll say it again, you are OK in my book, and it’s nice to see you talking in complete sentences. Dude, look at your sent box for the week before then, you were spewing crap like a Great Dane on a raisin diet. Nice to have you back, I appreciate your comments and you are fun to talk to MOST OF THE TIME. I just thot you needed a wakeup call, and the motion was supported by others who care about you as well. So, SHUT UP the whining and the self degradation, that crap don’t fly , we are all manipulators here and have not only seen, but DONE it as well. Just be honest, dood. Stop beating yourself up.

One more thing, this is for the room. Remember, WE ARE ALL dealing with mood altering chemicals and like it or not, we CAN type when we CAN’T think. I appreciate the passes I have been given here for my outbursts, and I WILL remember your patience. You guys know who you are.

What happened to Matt Z.? He Ibo’ed and like fell off the planet, is he OK?

Bee

Ron Davis wrote:
Don:
you are correct, i do blank out, contribute very little and am a moron. So where’s the common thread? Us trying to live clean and being comfortable in doing so.  It’s just a dumb guess.  My humor or lack of it ain’t for everyone.  It’s a bit too cynical for guys like me at times but still i type. i don’t take offense at potshots ( momma jokes aside) so have at it anytime the urge strikes. luck to you on your journey and the rest of us.
many die along the way or worse things happen. age and doing the same old stuff have long since rubbed the point off this dude’s ego and intellect.  it’s just my way of saying it ain’t fun, hasn’t been for eons and hope i can get out of this corner i painted myself into, and i did it all by myself, geeze.  follow the winners, not the whiners like me. ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Don Patton
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 11:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw: Stick People to Jason attachment not large I think, bwtfdino exercise caution, I hope I’m getting better, koko OT
Ron, you’re not really adding anyting to the group, we all got chairs here, Yours blanks out at times.

Ron Davis wrote:
primitive for all who read or watch, koko. safe to open if space allows. 
—– Original Message —–
To: < 
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 8:35 AM 
Subject: Stick People
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From: Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] who do you recommend getting Ibogaine from?
Date: November 3, 2005 at 12:23:59 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Well, I was trying to get a distributorship, but it didn’t work out…..
Day Brown wrote:
and at what price?
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From: Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw:,for Don, from ron (ot) should be off list
Date: November 3, 2005 at 12:16:24 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Wow, Ron, that was a week ago, we already hashed this out. I’ll say it again, you are OK in my book, and it’s nice to see you talking in complete sentences. Dude, look at your sent box for the week before then, you were spewing crap like a Great Dane on a raisin diet. Nice to have you back, I appreciate your comments and you are fun to talk to MOST OF THE TIME. I just thot you needed a wakeup call, and the motion was supported by others who care about you as well. So, SHUT UP the whining and the self degradation, that crap don’t fly , we are all manipulators here and have not only seen, but DONE it as well. Just be honest, dood. Stop beating yourself up.
One more thing, this is for the room. Remember, WE ARE ALL dealing with mood altering chemicals and like it or not, we CAN type when we CAN’T think. I appreciate the passes I have been given here for my outbursts, and I WILL remember your patience. You guys know who you are.
What happened to Matt Z.? He Ibo’ed and like fell off the planet, is he OK?
Bee
Ron Davis wrote:
Don:
you are correct, i do blank out, contribute very little and am a moron. So where’s the common thread? Us trying to live clean and being comfortable in doing so.  It’s just a dumb guess.  My humor or lack of it ain’t for everyone.  It’s a bit too cynical for guys like me at times but still i type. i don’t take offense at potshots ( momma jokes aside) so have at it anytime the urge strikes. luck to you on your journey and the rest of us.
many die along the way or worse things happen. age and doing the same old stuff have long since rubbed the point off this dude’s ego and intellect.  it’s just my way of saying it ain’t fun, hasn’t been for eons and hope i can get out of this corner i painted myself into, and i did it all by myself, geeze.  follow the winners, not the whiners like me. ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Don Patton
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 11:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw: Stick People to Jason attachment not large I think, bwtfdino exercise caution, I hope I’m getting better, koko OT
Ron, you’re not really adding anyting to the group, we all got chairs here, Yours blanks out at times.
Ron Davis wrote:
primitive for all who read or watch, koko. safe to open if space allows.
—– Original Message —–
To: <
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 8:35 AM
Subject: Stick People
  /]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: Mark Franzeskos <nsxy1@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] that list of questions thing
Date: November 3, 2005 at 12:08:46 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
stop sending messages
Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
BTW, I’ve been really lazy about scanning in the cat photos, so please bare
with me for a bit, I’m still planning on doing it, I’ve just been, well, as
noted, really lazy.
Speaking of being lazy, I can’t believe I’m about to do this, but here goes:
1. What time is it, Start time? 4:55 PM Eastern time.
2. Your name: …… Preston Thomas Peet
3. Nickname: ………. Don’t have one and hate when people call me by one
or another “nick” name- but I don’t mind the name Nick though. So long as
I’m not the one being called Nick.
;-))
4. Pirecing’s:…………….Just went through this, but I’ll do it again
in slightly more detail:
11 Ear piercings
2 lip piercings.
1 Eye brow piercing (two but one ripped so I had to do it again) but I
can’t really count that one any more as I’ve stopped wearing a ring there
and probably will continue to stay ringless there.
3 Nipple piercings
1 Tongue piercing
2 Nose piercings
2 genital (penis) piercings. 3 if you count the old Prince Albert, but
since I don’t wear it as a Prince Albert I don’t count it- other than for
the fact that that PA piercing left me with some somewhat interesting story
material, meaning it was the material I was writing about in the very first
article I “sold”- and of course, never got actually paid for as the guys
ripped me off and “stole” the article. Remind me to recount the tale of that
particular piercing sometime, it’s good and bloody and quite funny too, in
one of those “oooo, wince, ouch, that sounds painful” sorts of ways.) I
think I wrote 20 piercings this morning, but forgot about the tongue (or at
least I think that’s the one I forgot), so it’s actually 21 piercings
currently.
5. What is the most recent movie you’ve seen in the theater: Hitchhicker’s
Guide…whoops, no, that’s not right, it was Fantastic Four, but only ’cause
I thought I was in it.
6. What is your eye color: Hazel
7. Place of birth: Ft. Meyers, Florida (but live now on Manhattan, NY)
8. Favorite food: stuff without meat in it, but stuff with dairy and/or eggs
is ok. Soft food because my teeth are bad. Ummm, I HATE food, usually hurts
my guts to some degree or other to eat anything at all whatsoever, and hurts
my mouth, and, well, I just don’t really enjoy eating that much.
9.Ever been to Africa: No
10. Ever been toilet papering: No, but I’ve had to clean up someone else’s
tp’ering.
11. Love someone so much it made you cry: OF COURSE, SEVERAL TIMES (how
could I put this answer, Brenda’s I think, any better? I couldn’t so I left
it alone, as with one or two others too.)
12. Been in a car accident: Oh yeah, a realy doozy of a humdinger.
13. Croutons or bacon bits: egad, croutons if they aren’t stale like they
usually are in restaurants.
14. Favorite day of the week:……..DEPENDS (Go ahead, accuse me of
plagiarizing, I don’t mind.)
15. Favorite restaurants: Red Bamboo, W. 4th St., in the West Village near
Washington Square park.
16. Favorite flower: marijuana, poppies, sun flowers.
17. Favorite sport to watch: Surfing, and Miami Dolphins games, although
they usually start losing as soon as I turn the game on so I’ve pretty near
given that up. And besides, I hate many sports activities, or at least, hate
the attitude and mentality that accompanies so many sporting events that I
can’t (no, I mean, “won’t”) even watch them on tv, much less live.
Occassionally I do like to watch a good boxing match though, but not live in
the stadium or whereever the event is taking place. I saw Butthole Surfers
at the WWF arena in Times Square a few years ago, while on a peanutbutter
and mushroom sandwhich, but I guess I wasn’t really at a sporting event
other than for staying through the horrific noise being “created” by
whomever it was the band had hired to open for them by “playing” the
shreikingest, ugliest, disturbing in a bad way “music” with his laptop- and
the fact that Butthole Surfers were, unbeknownst to them, at the time in
competition with Jane’s Addicton- (see
http://www.drugwar.com/pshroomshows.shtm for more on that competition and to
find out who won, if you’re new here and haven’t yet read this article).
18. Favorite drink: Coffee, water.
19. Favorite ice cream: Tough one. Starbuck’s Java Chip and Starbuck’s
Coffee Almond Fudge. (I know, Starbuck’s, I supporting the MAN, but oh well,
they make awfully good ice cream, and coffee too come to think of it- though
WAY TOO EXPENSIVE so their little chain stores rarely get my business, and I
buy the icecream at the grocery store.)
20. Disney or Warner Brothers: There’s stuff I like about both, stuff I
hate, so it’s a tie.
21. Favorite fast food restaurant: The one where the food is really, really
slow so I don’t have to run very fast to catch it. Of course, it’s the rare
vegetable that can outrun me even on a bad day, so….)
22. What color is the carpet of your bedroom: We have a wooden floor in the
“bedroom” (now more of a “walk-in closet/sewing room due to a cat we still
live with making it his own the first Winter he spent here after V rescued
him- we were told by more than one “professional” cat rescuer than our best
bet would be to somehow manage to get him back into one of the traps or cat
carrying case and get him “fixed,” then turn him loose back outside because
he was too ferel and would “never ever” allow us to touch him, much less pet
and carress him- LOL, he still won’t let us pick him up, but he’s a total
petmerightnowaholic nowadays.) with a supposedly beautiful oriental rug
rolled up and leaning in the corner that I’ve only seen teeny bits of as
it’s been rolled up since V’s mom gave it to us- it’s too big for a Lower
East side apartment like ours.
23. How many times you failed your drivers test: Never failed it (and only
had to pay $1 for the added “liscensed for motorcycles” on mine)- but lost
it within three years due to unpaid tickets..
24. Before this one, from whom did you get your last email: Callie, in the
form of a post to the ibogaine list.
25. Which store would you choose to Max out your credit card: My credit
cards got maxed out long ago at the dentist- although I do have one where I
keep getting it back up to around a hundred bucks before needing to max it
out again, and that’s always buying groceries- which is weird I just
realized considering I don’t like to eat all that much.
26. What do you do most often when you are bored: Masturbate, sleep, smoke.
I’d include reading, but I’m never bored when reading, or at least not
usually, so that’s not on my “do while bored” list. For that matter, I
seldom find myself feeling “bored” because I’ve usually got something to do,
even if it’s “just” masturbating.
;-))
27. Who will respond to this e-mail the quickest: those with lots of time on
their hands.
28. Who is the person you sent this to is least likely to respond: Those who
are either too grouchy or too haughty to bother or care to take the time to
do so, or too busy, or simply too cool.
29. Who are you the most curious about their responses to this
questionnaire: I’ve got no preferences.
30. Favorite TV shows: The Daily Show, the new Steven Colbert Report,
Cand -Span’s Washington Journal. Oh, and the Dave Chappell show (sp?),
particularly the one where Eddie Murphy’s brother tells the stories about
his friendship with Rick James, one of the funniest tv show episodes ever
made, in my own humble opinion of course.
31. Last person you went to dinner with: V, my companion and lover of nine
years as of Halloween.
32. Ford or Chevy: A motorcycle or bicycle or my feet. Neither Chevy or Ford
or any other US (or any country’s) gas guzzling, system supporting, nature
killing automaker gets my vote. But that’s just me and about a few thousand
others I guess.
33. What are you listening to right now: City Crickets…oh, nope they just
stopped and the siren just went past, so let’s see…it’s still noises
coming in the window from NYC. Gosdh, actually, it’s pretty quiet, except V
just turned on the Dust Buster…nope that stopped too. Her heels on the
wood floor? Lots of different things.
34. What is your favorite color: Purple, black.
35. How many tattoos do you have: 5
36. How many pets do you have? 9 cats currently, but I don’t “have” them, I
merely share my apartment with them.
(it’s now 5:30PM Eastern time.)
Peace and love,
Preston Peet
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (COMPLETELY OT) Re: [Ibogaine]
Date: November 2, 2005 at 10:53:48 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Good shit, u got pierced by gp!!!! <
No, I got pierced by Mr. Sebastian, who did most of GP’s piercings- read the post again.
;-))
Too bad though, it sure got you excited.
He almost contributed to the new book that’s hitting shelves any day now, but decided that with all he’s already untaking (which is cool, means he’s still keeping busy creating), it would be like “wringing blood from a stone,” were I to ask him to write me an article.
But he’s a really nice guy, and I’ve had dinner with him, he hosted a reading I did, I’ve hung out a couple times for short amounts of time on other occasions- but the very first time I “met” GP was on Ave. A, and for a second I blanked right after turning around as he and another guy, a drummer from the Pig Face show the night before, passed me by and I said, “Hey, You’re…ummm, you’re…” and GP said, “Alice.”
LOL, and he said it with real attitude too, and if you’ve seen GP lately, it would certainly give one pause for a moment. I was left standing there feelings kinds silly, but once meeting him over Mexican food before the reading, a book release thing for disinfo’s first anthology, in which I have a long article about CIA-Drug Running, but read nothing from it at the reading. I read a story about me being psycho in Central Park on speedballs I think it was.
  Anyway, my point is you can tell your ex (funny, an ex and I had “meet and get pierced by Mr. Sebastian AND meet and hang out with GP” when we moved to Europe, and considered moving to London before settling in Rotterdam, where six months late we broke up) that I did NOT get pierced by GP, but have hugged and been hugged by him, complimented by him, and like him a lot.
How’s that?
Peace and love,
Preston Peet
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —– From: “Kirk” <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 2:14 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] (COMPLETELY OT) Re: [Ibogaine]
LOL.
Thanks, Preston, for sharing!! Cool story! I remember Throbbing Gristle!!!!
Good shit, u got pierced by gp!!!! Wicked! Wait til I tell my ex that he’ll
be so jealous!!
Lmao @limp dick roflmao actually
Funny shit
Cheers
Kirk xx
—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Thursday, 3 November 2005 5:28 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] (COMPLETELY OT) Re: [Ibogaine]
Pierced.. where did you say again??????????????????????????????????
Hahahahahaha<
I realize you aren’t addressing me in the slightest, but what the heck, I
seldom get an opportunity to divulge, if you will, the more private
piercings I have. So, in my own case? Hmmm, let’s see-
I currently have 20 holes in which rings usually are worn, though I’m
missing a few of the rings at the moment. The holes are everywhere, but I’ll
leave most of them to your imagination.
  But if anyone here remembers the old ReSearch series of books,
particularly the one titled Modern Primitives, you may remember Mr.
Sebastian, a Londoner who did many if not most of Genesis P-Orrige’s
piercings (GP of Pig Face, Psychic TV, and Throbbing Gristle- the “first
industrial” band around- to name but three of his projects over the years),
and I think may have had his own chapter but can’t at this point remember.
Anyway, he was someone I’d really wanted to meet and get pierced by (and so
was able to mark off on my list of things I want to get done within my
lifetime on Earth this time ’round, and after meeting a young lady who
turned out to be a good friend of his, I got past the three month waiting
list and saw him three days later.
  The fact I already had a Prince Albert helped a lot, as it showed I was
serious about my piercing, but I also suspect that perhaps more importantly,
it made the Apadravia I wanted him to do for me a little easier as it is
already half-way done with a Prince Albert already in there. Not into
piercings for the pain, as some genuinely are, when he asked if I wanted
Novacaine, I replied with a hearty “YES,” so that was really the only needle
I felt during the entire process, having literally a “limp dick” after the
injection of Novacaine.
  So that’s my story and I’m sticking to it.
  Sorry about posting such an off-topic post, but I simply couldn’t help
myself, it’s my disease that made me do it, I’m sick, twisted, got a problem
or three that make me craaaaazy, totally and completely insane.
Peace and love,
Preston Peet
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —– From: “Kirk” <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 1:23 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]
Ooooooooooooo Adivan………ooooooooooo used to love dem fings!!!  Talk
about sledge hammer to the conscious part of you!!!! LOL those things
lasted
ma few days!!
Yum!!!
Yeh and PHOTO come on now Jasen……. we just know you are this sex
symbol
hiding out there in Aussie…….
Hahahahahaha hung like an …. ass? Roflmao
Pierced.. where did you say again??????????????????????????????????
Hahahahahaha
—–Original Message—–
From: brenda brewer [mailto:shakti@photon.net]
Sent: Wednesday, 2 November 2005 7:18 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]
Come on, honey….photo.  BTW. You guys crackin’ me up tonight!  I’m
working
11 hours per day every day this week so all bid y’all g’nite.  I am
feeling
much better – mostly due to my compassionate doc and a week’s supply of
Adivan, which I’m only taking at bedtime now – NOW 🙂
Sweet dreams!
Love,
brenda
On 11/1/05 10:06 PM, “Kirk” <captkirk@clear.net.nz> wrote:
AGAIN DAMMIT
—–Original Message—–
From: Jasen Chamoun [mailto:jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au]
Sent: Wednesday, 2 November 2005 7:04 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]
—– Original Message —–
From: “Kirk” <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 3:44 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] O.k serious now,.. : )
Ohhhh you are Syrian???
Ok. Come on… fess up a photo now boy. It’s only fair…..
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Shakti
Vocalist/Lyricist
House, Soul, Background vocals
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] reading event(s) in NYC
Date: November 2, 2005 at 7:43:30 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Best of luck to you Brenda.
Peace and love,
Preston
—– Original Message —– From: <shakti@photon.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 12:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] reading event(s) in NYC
Preston,
I’m glad to know about it!  I’m very excited for you but will be getting
ready for my first session leaving on the 19th or else I might just fly
out to NY to join in all the fun!
Have a great time!
brenda 🙂
———————————————————–
WebMail provided by Photon.Net – http://www.photon.net/
Nationwide internet access, thousands of dial-up numbers!
Web hosting, multimedia broadcasting, e-commerce, and more.
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] that list of questions thing
Date: November 2, 2005 at 5:57:01 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
BTW, I’ve been really lazy about scanning in the cat photos, so please bare with me for a bit, I’m still planning on doing it, I’ve just been, well, as noted, really lazy.
Speaking of being lazy, I can’t believe I’m about to do this, but here goes:
1. What time is it, Start time? 4:55 PM Eastern time.
2. Your name: …… Preston Thomas Peet
3. Nickname: ………. Don’t have one and hate when people call me by one or another “nick” name- but I don’t mind the name Nick though. So long as I’m not the one being called Nick.
;-))
4. Pirecing’s:…………….Just went through this, but I’ll do it again in slightly more detail:
  11 Ear piercings
  2 lip piercings.
  1 Eye brow piercing (two but one ripped so I had to do it again) but I can’t really count that one any more as I’ve stopped wearing a ring there and probably will continue to stay ringless there.
  3 Nipple piercings
  1 Tongue piercing
  2 Nose piercings
  2 genital (penis) piercings. 3 if you count the old Prince Albert, but since I don’t wear it as a Prince Albert I don’t count it- other than for the fact that that PA piercing left me with some somewhat interesting story material, meaning it was the material I was writing about in the very first article I “sold”- and of course, never got actually paid for as the guys ripped me off and “stole” the article. Remind me to recount the tale of that particular piercing sometime, it’s good and bloody and quite funny too, in one of those “oooo, wince, ouch, that sounds painful” sorts of ways.) I think I wrote 20 piercings this morning, but forgot about the tongue (or at least I think that’s the one I forgot), so it’s actually 21 piercings currently.
5. What is the most recent movie you’ve seen in the theater: Hitchhicker’s Guide…whoops, no, that’s not right, it was Fantastic Four, but only ’cause I thought I was in it.
6. What is your eye color: Hazel
7. Place of birth: Ft. Meyers, Florida (but live now on Manhattan, NY)
8. Favorite food: stuff without meat in it, but stuff with dairy and/or eggs is ok. Soft food because my teeth are bad. Ummm, I HATE food, usually hurts my guts to some degree or other to eat anything at all whatsoever, and hurts my mouth, and, well, I just don’t really enjoy eating that much.
9.Ever been to Africa:   No
10. Ever been toilet papering: No, but I’ve had to clean up someone else’s tp’ering.
11. Love someone so much it made you cry: OF COURSE, SEVERAL TIMES (how could I put this answer, Brenda’s I think, any better? I couldn’t so I left it alone, as with one or two others too.)
12. Been in a car accident: Oh yeah, a realy doozy of a humdinger.
13. Croutons or bacon bits:  egad, croutons if they aren’t stale like they usually are in restaurants.
14. Favorite day of the week:……..DEPENDS (Go ahead, accuse me of plagiarizing, I don’t mind.)
15. Favorite restaurants: Red Bamboo, W. 4th St., in the West Village near Washington Square park.
16. Favorite flower: marijuana, poppies, sun flowers.
17. Favorite sport to watch: Surfing, and Miami Dolphins games, although they usually start losing as soon as I turn the game on so I’ve pretty near given that up. And besides, I hate many sports activities, or at least, hate the attitude and mentality that accompanies so many sporting events that I can’t (no, I mean, “won’t”) even watch them on tv, much less live. Occassionally I do like to watch a good boxing match though, but not live in the stadium or whereever the event is taking place. I saw Butthole Surfers at the WWF arena in Times Square a few years ago, while on a peanutbutter and mushroom sandwhich, but I guess I wasn’t really at a sporting event other than for staying through the horrific noise being “created” by whomever it was the band had hired to open for them by “playing” the shreikingest, ugliest, disturbing in a bad way “music” with his laptop- and the fact that Butthole Surfers were, unbeknownst to them, at the time in competition with Jane’s Addicton- (see http://www.drugwar.com/pshroomshows.shtm for more on that competition and to find out who won, if you’re new here and haven’t yet read this article).
18. Favorite drink: Coffee, water.
19. Favorite ice cream: Tough one. Starbuck’s Java Chip and Starbuck’s Coffee Almond Fudge. (I know, Starbuck’s, I supporting the MAN, but oh well, they make awfully good ice cream, and coffee too come to think of it- though WAY TOO EXPENSIVE so their little chain stores rarely get my business, and I buy the icecream at the grocery store.)
20. Disney or Warner Brothers:  There’s stuff I like about both, stuff I hate, so it’s a tie.
21. Favorite fast food restaurant: The one where the food is really, really slow so I don’t have to run very fast to catch it. Of course, it’s the rare vegetable that can outrun me even on a bad day, so….)
22. What color is the carpet of your bedroom: We have a wooden floor in the “bedroom” (now more of a “walk-in closet/sewing room due to a cat we still live with making it his own the first Winter he spent here after V rescued him- we were told by more than one “professional” cat rescuer than our best bet would be to somehow manage to get him back into one of the traps or cat carrying case and get him “fixed,” then turn him loose back outside because he was too ferel and would “never ever” allow us to touch him, much less pet and carress him- LOL, he still won’t let us pick him up, but he’s a total petmerightnowaholic nowadays.) with a supposedly beautiful oriental rug rolled up and leaning in the corner that I’ve only seen teeny bits of as it’s been rolled up since V’s mom gave it to us- it’s too big for a Lower East side apartment like ours.
23. How many times you failed your drivers test: Never failed it (and only had to pay $1 for the added “liscensed for motorcycles” on mine)- but lost it within three years due to unpaid tickets..
24. Before this one, from whom did you get your last email: Callie, in the form of a post to the ibogaine list.
25. Which store would you choose to Max out your credit card: My credit cards got maxed out long ago at the dentist- although I do have one where I keep getting it back up to around a hundred bucks before needing to max it out again, and that’s always buying groceries- which is weird I just realized considering I don’t like to eat all that much.
26. What do you do most often when you are bored: Masturbate, sleep, smoke. I’d include reading, but I’m never bored when reading, or at least not usually, so that’s not on my “do while bored” list. For that matter, I seldom find myself feeling “bored” because I’ve usually got something to do, even if it’s “just” masturbating.
;-))
27. Who will respond to this e-mail the quickest: those with lots of time on their hands.
28. Who is the person you sent this to is least likely to respond: Those who are either too grouchy or too haughty to bother or care to take the time to do so, or too busy, or simply too cool.
29. Who are you the most curious about their responses to this
questionnaire: I’ve got no preferences.
30. Favorite TV shows:  The Daily Show, the new Steven Colbert Report, Cand -Span’s Washington Journal. Oh, and the Dave Chappell show (sp?), particularly the one where Eddie Murphy’s brother tells the stories about his friendship with Rick James, one of the funniest tv show episodes ever made, in my own humble opinion of course.
31. Last person you went to dinner with: V, my companion and lover of nine years as of Halloween.
32. Ford or Chevy: A motorcycle or bicycle or my feet. Neither Chevy or Ford or any other US (or any country’s) gas guzzling, system supporting, nature killing automaker gets my vote. But that’s just me and about a few thousand others I guess.
33. What are you listening to right now: City Crickets…oh, nope they just stopped and the siren just went past, so let’s see…it’s still noises coming in the window from NYC. Gosdh, actually, it’s pretty quiet, except V just turned on the Dust Buster…nope that stopped too. Her heels on the wood floor? Lots of different things.
34. What is your favorite color: Purple, black.
35. How many tattoos do you have: 5
36. How many pets do you have? 9 cats currently, but I don’t “have” them, I merely share my apartment with them.
(it’s now 5:30PM Eastern time.)
Peace and love,
Preston Peet
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] (COMPLETELY OT) Re: [Ibogaine]
Date: November 2, 2005 at 2:14:10 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
LOL.
Thanks, Preston, for sharing!! Cool story! I remember Throbbing Gristle!!!!
Good shit, u got pierced by gp!!!! Wicked! Wait til I tell my ex that he’ll
be so jealous!!
Lmao @limp dick roflmao actually
Funny shit
Cheers
Kirk xx
—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Thursday, 3 November 2005 5:28 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] (COMPLETELY OT) Re: [Ibogaine]
Pierced.. where did you say again??????????????????????????????????
Hahahahahaha<
I realize you aren’t addressing me in the slightest, but what the heck, I
seldom get an opportunity to divulge, if you will, the more private
piercings I have. So, in my own case? Hmmm, let’s see-
I currently have 20 holes in which rings usually are worn, though I’m
missing a few of the rings at the moment. The holes are everywhere, but I’ll
leave most of them to your imagination.
   But if anyone here remembers the old ReSearch series of books,
particularly the one titled Modern Primitives, you may remember Mr.
Sebastian, a Londoner who did many if not most of Genesis P-Orrige’s
piercings (GP of Pig Face, Psychic TV, and Throbbing Gristle- the “first
industrial” band around- to name but three of his projects over the years),
and I think may have had his own chapter but can’t at this point remember.
Anyway, he was someone I’d really wanted to meet and get pierced by (and so
was able to mark off on my list of things I want to get done within my
lifetime on Earth this time ’round, and after meeting a young lady who
turned out to be a good friend of his, I got past the three month waiting
list and saw him three days later.
   The fact I already had a Prince Albert helped a lot, as it showed I was
serious about my piercing, but I also suspect that perhaps more importantly,
it made the Apadravia I wanted him to do for me a little easier as it is
already half-way done with a Prince Albert already in there. Not into
piercings for the pain, as some genuinely are, when he asked if I wanted
Novacaine, I replied with a hearty “YES,” so that was really the only needle
I felt during the entire process, having literally a “limp dick” after the
injection of Novacaine.
   So that’s my story and I’m sticking to it.
   Sorry about posting such an off-topic post, but I simply couldn’t help
myself, it’s my disease that made me do it, I’m sick, twisted, got a problem
or three that make me craaaaazy, totally and completely insane.
Peace and love,
Preston Peet
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —–
From: “Kirk” <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 1:23 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]
Ooooooooooooo Adivan………ooooooooooo used to love dem fings!!!  Talk
about sledge hammer to the conscious part of you!!!! LOL those things
lasted
ma few days!!
Yum!!!
Yeh and PHOTO come on now Jasen……. we just know you are this sex
symbol
hiding out there in Aussie…….
Hahahahahaha hung like an …. ass? Roflmao
Pierced.. where did you say again??????????????????????????????????
Hahahahahaha
—–Original Message—–
From: brenda brewer [mailto:shakti@photon.net]
Sent: Wednesday, 2 November 2005 7:18 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]
Come on, honey….photo.  BTW. You guys crackin’ me up tonight!  I’m
working
11 hours per day every day this week so all bid y’all g’nite.  I am
feeling
much better – mostly due to my compassionate doc and a week’s supply of
Adivan, which I’m only taking at bedtime now – NOW 🙂
Sweet dreams!
Love,
brenda
On 11/1/05 10:06 PM, “Kirk” <captkirk@clear.net.nz> wrote:
AGAIN DAMMIT
—–Original Message—–
From: Jasen Chamoun [mailto:jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au]
Sent: Wednesday, 2 November 2005 7:04 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]
—– Original Message —–
From: “Kirk” <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 3:44 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] O.k serious now,.. : )
Ohhhh you are Syrian???
Ok. Come on… fess up a photo now boy. It’s only fair…..
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Shakti
Vocalist/Lyricist
House, Soul, Background vocals
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From: Day Brown <daybrown@artelco.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] who do you recommend getting Ibogaine from?
Date: November 2, 2005 at 2:47:45 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
and at what price?
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From: shakti@photon.net
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] reading event(s) in NYC
Date: November 2, 2005 at 12:30:56 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Preston,
I’m glad to know about it!  I’m very excited for you but will be getting
ready for my first session leaving on the 19th or else I might just fly
out to NY to join in all the fun!
Have a great time!
brenda 🙂
———————————————————–
WebMail provided by Photon.Net – http://www.photon.net/
Nationwide internet access, thousands of dial-up numbers!
Web hosting, multimedia broadcasting, e-commerce, and more.
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] HUGE marijuana house found and owner arrested
Date: November 2, 2005 at 12:28:02 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
If my children were marijuana plants I would.
;-))
Luckily, the closest thing to children I have are cats, and they aren’t smokeable, or at least, I don’t wanna smoke ’em, so….
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —– From: “kiersten johnson” <kiers10@mac.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 4:31 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] HUGE marijuana house found and owner arrested
Preston, you would smoke your children??? whoa. you are hard core.
happy all saint’s day.
kiersten
On Oct 31, 2005, at 2:04 PM, Preston Peet wrote:
I often wonder what the pot would look like if I planted and tried to grow the seeds I’ve found over the years in some pretty decent pot,  and in some not so decent too. I’ve been thinking that perhaps, if I  were to take extra time and loving care with the plants as though they  were my children, which basically they would be were I not too  paranoid to actually grow any plants here at home and don’t travel too  well so don’t have anywhere outside of my home where I grow either (in  case you’re listening feds- I don’t grow pot, anywhere), would I be  able to actually grow decent herb? Or would it automatically sprout as  generally yucky herb?
  Just curious- I’m not planning on growing herb any time in the near or even fairly far future, at least at this point in time.
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is  often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient  Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out  Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —– From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2005 7:20 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] HUGE marijuana house found and owner arrested
God I love the South. I wonder if the cops have any good clones that will “disappear” from the evidence room, we sure can’t get any good seeds anymore.               Randy
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fw: ‘left’, ‘right’ and mixed methadone … regular mixed methadone just as good.
Date: November 2, 2005 at 12:24:51 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Peace and love,
Preston Peet
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —–
From: Andrew Byrne
To: ajbyrne@ozemail.com.au
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 10:55 PM
Subject: ‘left’, ‘right’ and mixed methadone … regular mixed methadone just as good.
The effects of racemic D,L-methadone and L-methadone in substituted patients — a randomized controlled study. Verthein U, Ullmann R et al.  Drug and Alcohol Dependence (2005) 80; 2: 267-271
Dear Colleagues,
This interesting and definitive study from Hamburg informs us that pure ‘levomethadone’ and racemic methadone are clinically equivalent in the expected ratio of 1:2 with no significant difference in withdrawal symptoms or other clinical aspects of maintenance treatment.  The pure enantiomer is more expensive and thus should probably be phased out in Germany, the only country where it had widespread use.
Despite no real evidence, some have speculated that certain methadone side effects might be due by the inactive L or ‘dextro’ component.  This careful, cross-over, randomised trial with 75 subjects has only found mild, transient differences in sudden experimental substitutions of medication.  These did not reach significance and confirm what was done by Judson in 1976.
Comments from Andrew Byrne ..
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
   Dr Andrew Byrne MB BS (Syd) FAChAM (RACP)
   Dependency Medicine,
   75 Redfern Street, Redfern,
   New South Wales, 2016, Australia
   Email – ajbyrneATozemail.com.au
   Tel (61 – 2) 9319 5524  Fax 9318 0631
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2005/s1418817.htm
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] reading event(s) in NYC
Date: November 2, 2005 at 12:15:13 PM EST
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>, <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, “Newsroom-L” <newsroom-l@lists.netspace.org>, “CERJ” <CERJ@igc.org>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi all,
  Sorry about cross posting this to all four of these lists (and myriad blind copied recipients too) but they’re my favorites, friends and compatriots, so here goes.
  My new book, “Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History” is coming out as I type, (I picked up the first copy last Friday at Disinfo’s office and I have to admit to being VERY happy with how good it looks), and we’ll be having a reading event/presentation, with the controversial, best-selling author Graham Hancock taking part, on Nov. 17, 2005, at Alex Gray’s Chapel of Sacred Mirrors in Manhattan (Google “Chapel of Sacred Mirrors” for more info on the COSM gallery and Alex Gray).
More info on that event will be forthcoming soon so please watch DrugWar.com for those details to be posted as soon as I get them.
In the meantime, I also have a couple of articles published in Russ Kick’s new, just released anthology for Disinfo, “Everything You Know About Sex is Wrong,” (“Close Contact,” a very personal tale of what it’s like being strung out and looking/working for money for a fix, and “Sex and…Drugs,” an article about many of the drugs people have used over the centuries, nay, the millennia, in combination with sex, and has many differing viewpoints from a wide selection of people (in)famous and not-so, on the whys and wherefores about using or not using drugs- including alcohol- before, during and after sex. So we’re having an event to promote that book too, and below is all the relevent information. I’d love to see and meet any of you who wants to come to either or both events.
—–
What:
Everything You Know About Sex is Wrong Lecture/Reading/Q&A
90 Minute Lecture/Reading with 30 minute Q&A afterwards
When:
Thursday, December 1, 2005  7pm – 9pm
Where:
Museum of Sex
233 Fifth Avenue (@ 27th Street)
New York, NY 10016
General Information: (212) 689-6337
$10 for adults and $8 for students/members
—–
Hope to meet a few of you there.
Peace and love,
Preston Peet
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] O.k serious now,..  : )
Date: November 2, 2005 at 11:50:44 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
OK, let’s do it!
Nick
—– Original Message —–
From: <shakti@photon.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 1:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Let’s learn a little bit about each other!
1. What time is it, Start time? 4.32pm
2. Your name: ……Nick, more usually Amira, my sannyas name
3. Nickname: ………. My girlfriend’s kids call me Mazza or Maz
4. Piercing’s:…………….0
5. What is the most recent movie you’ve seen in the theater – Dukes of
Hazard
6. What is your eye color: Dark brown
7. Place of birth: UK, but half Iranian
8. Favorite food: fish and chips, with olive oil and mayo
9. Ever been to Africa:  Cameroun, Zimbabwe, S.Africa, Morocco
10. Ever been toilet papering: What’s toilet papering?
11. Love someone so much it made you cry: Sure
12. Been in a car accident: ……….No, motorbike crash in Goa though
13. Croutons or bacon bits:  Both
14. Favorite day of the week:……..Sunday
15. Favorite restaurants: Cafe Galatea, Glastonbury; Bistro 67, Totnes
16. Favorite flower: ………..Rose
17. Favorite sport to watch: Soccer
18. Favorite drink: Best bitter, sparkling wine, kahlua (not all
together)
19. Favorite ice cream: rum and raisin
20. Disney or Warner Brothers: Disney
21. Favorite fast food restaurant: Wendys, none in england anymore
though
22. What color is the carpet of your bedroom: Varnished boards, carpet
is the work of the devil.
23. How many times you failed your drivers test:…..2
24. Before this one, from whom did you get your last email: Paypal
25. Which store would you choose to Max out your credit card: Shambala
furniture store, Hong Kong Island (more usually it’s just TK Maxx or Ikea
though, sadly.)
26. What do you do most often when you are bored:  Drink tea
27. Who will respond to this e-mail the quickest: Don’t know
28. Who is the person you sent this to is least likely to respond: Maybe
Ed or Lee perhaps
29. Who are you the most curious about their responses to this
questionnaire:  Be nice to hear from Lee Albert
30. Favorite TV shows:  Little Britain, Big Brother,
31. Last person you went to dinner with:  Premal, my girlfriend
32. Ford or Chevy:  Wouldn’t drive either really. Not many chevys in the
UK (levies neither!)
33. What are you listening to right now: new Madonna single, Deva Premal
& Miten, Snoop R&G, Armin van Buuren
34. What is your favorite color: RED!
35. How many tattoos do you have: 0
36. How many pets do you have? None
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From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw:,for Don, from ron (ot) should be off list
Date: November 2, 2005 at 11:44:53 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Don:
you are correct, i do blank out, contribute very little and am a moron. So where’s the common thread? Us trying to live clean and being comfortable in doing so.  It’s just a dumb guess.  My humor or lack of it ain’t for everyone.  It’s a bit too cynical for guys like me at times but still i type. i don’t take offense at potshots ( momma jokes aside) so have at it anytime the urge strikes. luck to you on your journey and the rest of us.
many die along the way or worse things happen. age and doing the same old stuff have long since rubbed the point off this dude’s ego and intellect.  it’s just my way of saying it ain’t fun, hasn’t been for eons and hope i can get out of this corner i painted myself into, and i did it all by myself, geeze.  follow the winners, not the whiners like me. ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Don Patton
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 11:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw: Stick People to Jason attachment not large I think, bwtfdino exercise caution, I hope I’m getting better, koko OT
Ron, you’re not really adding anyting to the group, we all got chairs here, Yours blanks out at times.
Ron Davis wrote:
primitive for all who read or watch, koko. safe to open if space allows.
—– Original Message —–
To: <
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 8:35 AM
Subject: Stick People
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] (COMPLETELY OT) Re: [Ibogaine]
Date: November 2, 2005 at 11:28:10 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Pierced.. where did you say again??????????????????????????????????
Hahahahahaha<
I realize you aren’t addressing me in the slightest, but what the heck, I seldom get an opportunity to divulge, if you will, the more private piercings I have. So, in my own case? Hmmm, let’s see-
I currently have 20 holes in which rings usually are worn, though I’m missing a few of the rings at the moment. The holes are everywhere, but I’ll leave most of them to your imagination.
  But if anyone here remembers the old ReSearch series of books, particularly the one titled Modern Primitives, you may remember Mr. Sebastian, a Londoner who did many if not most of Genesis P-Orrige’s piercings (GP of Pig Face, Psychic TV, and Throbbing Gristle- the “first industrial” band around- to name but three of his projects over the years), and I think may have had his own chapter but can’t at this point remember. Anyway, he was someone I’d really wanted to meet and get pierced by (and so was able to mark off on my list of things I want to get done within my lifetime on Earth this time ’round, and after meeting a young lady who turned out to be a good friend of his, I got past the three month waiting list and saw him three days later.
  The fact I already had a Prince Albert helped a lot, as it showed I was serious about my piercing, but I also suspect that perhaps more importantly, it made the Apadravia I wanted him to do for me a little easier as it is already half-way done with a Prince Albert already in there. Not into piercings for the pain, as some genuinely are, when he asked if I wanted Novacaine, I replied with a hearty “YES,” so that was really the only needle I felt during the entire process, having literally a “limp dick” after the injection of Novacaine.
  So that’s my story and I’m sticking to it.
  Sorry about posting such an off-topic post, but I simply couldn’t help myself, it’s my disease that made me do it, I’m sick, twisted, got a problem or three that make me craaaaazy, totally and completely insane.
Peace and love,
Preston Peet
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —– From: “Kirk” <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 1:23 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]
Ooooooooooooo Adivan………ooooooooooo used to love dem fings!!!  Talk
about sledge hammer to the conscious part of you!!!! LOL those things lasted
ma few days!!
Yum!!!
Yeh and PHOTO come on now Jasen……. we just know you are this sex symbol
hiding out there in Aussie…….
Hahahahahaha hung like an …. ass? Roflmao
Pierced.. where did you say again??????????????????????????????????
Hahahahahaha
—–Original Message—–
From: brenda brewer [mailto:shakti@photon.net]
Sent: Wednesday, 2 November 2005 7:18 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]
Come on, honey….photo.  BTW. You guys crackin’ me up tonight!  I’m working
11 hours per day every day this week so all bid y’all g’nite.  I am feeling
much better – mostly due to my compassionate doc and a week’s supply of
Adivan, which I’m only taking at bedtime now – NOW 🙂
Sweet dreams!
Love,
brenda
On 11/1/05 10:06 PM, “Kirk” <captkirk@clear.net.nz> wrote:
AGAIN DAMMIT
—–Original Message—–
From: Jasen Chamoun [mailto:jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au]
Sent: Wednesday, 2 November 2005 7:04 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]
—– Original Message —–
From: “Kirk” <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 3:44 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] O.k serious now,.. : )
Ohhhh you are Syrian???
Ok. Come on… fess up a photo now boy. It’s only fair…..
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Shakti
Vocalist/Lyricist
House, Soul, Background vocals
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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] OT: classic Kiwi advert “bugger”
Date: November 2, 2005 at 11:09:46 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
http://files2.inspire.net.nz/Movies/Advertisements/Toyota/toyota-bugger.mov
good for a laugh!
Kirk
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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] FW: World Survey
Date: November 2, 2005 at 8:07:47 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
A touch of humour from nz,
Subject: A little light entertainment
Last month, the UN conducted a worldwide survey. The only question asked was:
“Would you please give your honest opinion about the solutions to the food shortage in the rest of the world?”
The survey was a huge failure…
In Africa, they didn’t know what “food” meant.
In Eastern Europe, they didn’t know what “honest” meant.
In Western Europe, they didn’t know what “shortage” meant.
In China, they didn’t know what “opinion” meant.
In the Middle East, they didn’t know what “solution” meant.
In South America, they didn’t know what “please” meant.
And finally…
In the USA, they didn’t know what “the rest of the
world” meant!
From: sara119@xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]   : )
Date: November 2, 2005 at 4:06:21 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
JASEN,
GOOD LUCK !!!!
Sara
  Yes I agree,..it is about time I posted a photo of myself and I will as
 soon as I find my recharge cord for my camera.
 I also have photos of Sara from Amsterdam that (with Sara’s permission)
 I will also post.
I haven’t been able to use my camera since coming home from Sara’s as
after I got home I misplaced all the camera cords.
I am listening to Evanescence song “wake me up inside” gives me
goosebumps.
I am on my second glass of red, “Annies Lane Shiraz” yum. Funny though I
use
to dislike alcohol 12 months ago. I am starting to understand how this
could
become an addiction.
I love to go out and have a few beers and dance all night, f*ck I like
dancing.
I was out the other night with a friend who is a girl and her friends,..I
was dancing
with her friends most of the night,..most of them had had Ekki’s I didn’t
and they
all thought I was Ekkied of my face,..I said to them this is how I am
naturally.
The high of the music,..the female attention,..the dancing,..the not being
asleep
inside was ecstasy in it self,..I was smiling ear to ear all night, of
course the beers helped.
I love it all,..life is such an amazing experience, I am very hungry for
the
vibrancy I have missed
out on,..I have awakened and if I do not channel my energy in a way that
helps others as
I have been helped I feel I may slip back into addiction.The thought of
giving
others what I have been given fills my heart,..and this is all I
need,..when
my heart
is full I am in ecstasy.
I have no interest in opiates, however I am loving going out having a few
drinks and dancing and laughing and flirting,..WOW,..what an amazing
experience.
You women are just soooo beautiful,….your feminine charm,..your voices
the way you move, the way you dance,..it is all so much louder these days.
I will post a photo soon, Hopefully you all won’t laugh your heads
off,..but
then again a laugh is always good.
                                                        with love Jasen
—– Original Message —–
From: “Kirk” <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 3:44 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] O.k serious now,.. : )
Ohhhh you are Syrian???
Ok. Come on… fess up a photo now boy. It’s only fair…..
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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]   : )
Date: November 2, 2005 at 3:03:03 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Yes I agree,..it is about time I posted a photo of myself and I will as
soon as I find my recharge cord for my camera.
I also have photos of Sara from Amsterdam that (with Sara’s permission)
I will also post.
I haven’t been able to use my camera since coming home from Sara’s as
after I got home I misplaced all the camera cords.
I am listening to Evanescence song “wake me up inside” gives me goosebumps.
I am on my second glass of red, “Annies Lane Shiraz” yum. Funny though I use
to dislike alcohol 12 months ago. I am starting to understand how this could
become an addiction.
I love to go out and have a few beers and dance all night, f*ck I like
dancing.
I was out the other night with a friend who is a girl and her friends,..I
was dancing
with her friends most of the night,..most of them had had Ekki’s I didn’t
and they
all thought I was Ekkied of my face,..I said to them this is how I am
naturally.
The high of the music,..the female attention,..the dancing,..the not being
asleep
inside was ecstasy in it self,..I was smiling ear to ear all night, of
course the beers helped.
I love it all,..life is such an amazing experience, I am very hungry for the
vibrancy I have missed
out on,..I have awakened and if I do not channel my energy in a way that
helps others as
I have been helped I feel I may slip back into addiction.The thought of giving
others what I have been given fills my heart,..and this is all I need,..when my heart
is full I am in ecstasy.
I have no interest in opiates, however I am loving going out having a few
drinks and dancing and laughing and flirting,..WOW,..what an amazing
experience.
You women are just soooo beautiful,….your feminine charm,..your voices
the way you move, the way you dance,..it is all so much louder these days.
I will post a photo soon, Hopefully you all won’t laugh your heads off,..but
then again a laugh is always good.
                                                       with love Jasen
—– Original Message —– From: “Kirk” <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 3:44 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] O.k serious now,.. : )
Ohhhh you are Syrian???
Ok. Come on… fess up a photo now boy. It’s only fair…..
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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]
Date: November 2, 2005 at 2:08:12 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Jasen… come on now…. me n B is waiting…… and I am sure everyone
else…. come on… make at least two girls’ days… (whether we swoon or
laugh.. I don’t know yet SO JUST SEND IT ALREADY!!! LOL)
Kirk on behalf Of Brenda
—–Original Message—–
From: Jasen Chamoun [mailto:jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au]
Sent: Wednesday, 2 November 2005 7:04 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]
—– Original Message —–
From: “Kirk” <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 3:44 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] O.k serious now,.. : )
Ohhhh you are Syrian???
Ok. Come on… fess up a photo now boy. It’s only fair…..
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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]
Date: November 2, 2005 at 1:23:22 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Ooooooooooooo Adivan………ooooooooooo used to love dem fings!!!  Talk
about sledge hammer to the conscious part of you!!!! LOL those things lasted
ma few days!!
Yum!!!
Yeh and PHOTO come on now Jasen……. we just know you are this sex symbol
hiding out there in Aussie…….
Hahahahahaha hung like an …. ass? Roflmao
Pierced.. where did you say again??????????????????????????????????
Hahahahahaha
—–Original Message—–
From: brenda brewer [mailto:shakti@photon.net]
Sent: Wednesday, 2 November 2005 7:18 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]
Come on, honey….photo.  BTW. You guys crackin’ me up tonight!  I’m working
11 hours per day every day this week so all bid y’all g’nite.  I am feeling
much better – mostly due to my compassionate doc and a week’s supply of
Adivan, which I’m only taking at bedtime now – NOW 🙂
Sweet dreams!
Love,
brenda
On 11/1/05 10:06 PM, “Kirk” <captkirk@clear.net.nz> wrote:
AGAIN DAMMIT
—–Original Message—–
From: Jasen Chamoun [mailto:jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au]
Sent: Wednesday, 2 November 2005 7:04 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]
—– Original Message —–
From: “Kirk” <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 3:44 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] O.k serious now,.. : )
Ohhhh you are Syrian???
Ok. Come on… fess up a photo now boy. It’s only fair…..
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Shakti
Vocalist/Lyricist
House, Soul, Background vocals
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: brenda brewer <shakti@photon.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]
Date: November 2, 2005 at 1:18:27 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Come on, honey….photo.  BTW. You guys crackin’ me up tonight!  I’m working
11 hours per day every day this week so all bid y’all g’nite.  I am feeling
much better – mostly due to my compassionate doc and a week’s supply of
Adivan, which I’m only taking at bedtime now – NOW 🙂
Sweet dreams!
Love,
brenda
On 11/1/05 10:06 PM, “Kirk” <captkirk@clear.net.nz> wrote:
AGAIN DAMMIT
—–Original Message—–
From: Jasen Chamoun [mailto:jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au]
Sent: Wednesday, 2 November 2005 7:04 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]
—– Original Message —–
From: “Kirk” <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 3:44 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] O.k serious now,.. : )
Ohhhh you are Syrian???
Ok. Come on… fess up a photo now boy. It’s only fair…..
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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/]=———————————————————————=[\
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Shakti
Vocalist/Lyricist
House, Soul, Background vocals
 /]=———————————————————————=[\
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 \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]
Date: November 2, 2005 at 1:06:42 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
AGAIN DAMMIT
—–Original Message—–
From: Jasen Chamoun [mailto:jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au]
Sent: Wednesday, 2 November 2005 7:04 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]
—– Original Message —–
From: “Kirk” <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 3:44 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] O.k serious now,.. : )
Ohhhh you are Syrian???
Ok. Come on… fess up a photo now boy. It’s only fair…..
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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]
Date: November 2, 2005 at 1:04:25 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
—– Original Message —– From: “Kirk” <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 3:44 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] O.k serious now,.. : )
Ohhhh you are Syrian???
Ok. Come on… fess up a photo now boy. It’s only fair…..
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] O.k serious now,..  : )
Date: November 2, 2005 at 12:44:36 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Ohhhh you are Syrian???
Ok. Come on… fess up a photo now boy. It’s only fair…..
—–Original Message—–
From: Jasen Chamoun [mailto:jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au]
Sent: Wednesday, 2 November 2005 6:41 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] O.k serious now,.. : )
—– Original Message —–
From: <shakti@photon.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 1:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Let’s learn a little bit about each other!
1. What time is it, Start time? 3:06pm
2. Your name: ……Jasen
3. Nickname: ………. Happy
4. Pirecing’s:…………….1
5. What is the most recent movie you’ve seen in the theater ..Cindarella
Man
6. What is your eye color: Dark brown,..almost black
7. Place of birth: Syria,..Middle East (Blood,..Lebanese/Armenian)
8. Favorite food: Avacadoe, fish, fried okra!  sushi, fried cauliflower
eggplant, Lamb on the spit, pine nuts and Bowen Mangoes
9.Ever been to Africa:  Only in spirit
10. Ever been toilet papering: At school
11. Love someone so much it made you cry: Yes,…sniff….
12. Been in a car accident: ……….Yes
13. Croutons or bacon bits:  Niether
14. Favorite day of the week:……..Sat
15. Favorite restaurants: To many to list
16. Favorite flower: ………..Bud,..in full bloom
17. Favorite sport to watch: Footie Finals,..Melbourne cup
18. Favorite drink: Beer and red wine
19. Favorite ice cream: Pepermint choc chip
20. Disney or Warner Brothers: Disney
21. Favorite fast food restaurant: None
22. What color is the carpet of your bedroom: floor boards
23. How many times you failed your drivers test:…..3
24. Before this one, from whom did you get your last email: ..Brian ( got
sent a joke)
25. Which store would you choose to Max out your credit card: New place
opening in Mexico
26. What do you do most often when you are bored:  Eat
and,…yea,…sometimes masturbate
27. Who will respond to this e-mail the quickest: Brenda,..cause you did
28. Who is the person you sent this to is least likely to respond: Jasen
the joker
29. Who are you the most curious about their responses to this
questionnaire:    everyone!
30. Favorite TV shows:  Comedy company, Simpsons, who wants to be a
millionare
        Sale of the century
31. Last person you went to dinner with:  Judy,..I still say Yum Yum
32. Ford or Chevy:  Ford
33. What are you listening to right now: EVANESCENCE
34. What is your favorite color Royal Blue
35. How many tattoos do you have: 1
36. How many pets do you have? None, I love animals
———————————————————–
WebMail provided by Photon.Net – http://www.photon.net/
Nationwide internet access, thousands of dial-up numbers!
Web hosting, multimedia broadcasting, e-commerce, and more.
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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] O.k serious now,..  : )
Date: November 2, 2005 at 12:40:34 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
—– Original Message —– From: <shakti@photon.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 1:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Let’s learn a little bit about each other!
1. What time is it, Start time? 3:06pm
2. Your name: ……Jasen
3. Nickname: ………. Happy
4. Pirecing’s:…………….1
5. What is the most recent movie you’ve seen in the theater ..Cindarella Man
6. What is your eye color: Dark brown,..almost black
7. Place of birth: Syria,..Middle East (Blood,..Lebanese/Armenian)
8. Favorite food: Avacadoe, fish, fried okra!  sushi, fried cauliflower
eggplant, Lamb on the spit, pine nuts and Bowen Mangoes
9.Ever been to Africa:  Only in spirit
10. Ever been toilet papering: At school
11. Love someone so much it made you cry: Yes,…sniff….
12. Been in a car accident: ……….Yes
13. Croutons or bacon bits:  Niether
14. Favorite day of the week:……..Sat
15. Favorite restaurants: To many to list
16. Favorite flower: ………..Bud,..in full bloom
17. Favorite sport to watch: Footie Finals,..Melbourne cup
18. Favorite drink: Beer and red wine
19. Favorite ice cream: Pepermint choc chip
20. Disney or Warner Brothers: Disney
21. Favorite fast food restaurant: None
22. What color is the carpet of your bedroom: floor boards
23. How many times you failed your drivers test:…..3
24. Before this one, from whom did you get your last email: ..Brian ( got sent a joke)
25. Which store would you choose to Max out your credit card: New place opening in Mexico
26. What do you do most often when you are bored:  Eat and,…yea,…sometimes masturbate
27. Who will respond to this e-mail the quickest: Brenda,..cause you did
28. Who is the person you sent this to is least likely to respond: Jasen the joker
29. Who are you the most curious about their responses to this
questionnaire:    everyone!
30. Favorite TV shows:  Comedy company, Simpsons, who wants to be a millionare
       Sale of the century
31. Last person you went to dinner with:  Judy,..I still say Yum Yum
32. Ford or Chevy:  Ford
33. What are you listening to right now: EVANESCENCE
34. What is your favorite color Royal Blue
35. How many tattoos do you have: 1
36. How many pets do you have? None, I love animals
———————————————————–
WebMail provided by Photon.Net – http://www.photon.net/
Nationwide internet access, thousands of dial-up numbers!
Web hosting, multimedia broadcasting, e-commerce, and more.
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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]  I’m only joking….
Date: November 1, 2005 at 11:57:53 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
….. does that mean you weren’t born in Syria either?????
From: Jasen Chamoun [mailto:jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au] 
Sent: Wednesday, 2 November 2005 5:31 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I’m only joking….
  Just being an ass,..that’s not really my nickname, nor do I have 12 piercings or 32 tattoos.
  Just one tattoo and 1 piercing.
  I thought “Donkey” would get a responce from you,… Mona. Now I’m laughing my head off!
                                                                   love ya Kirsty. Jasen
—– Original Message —–
From: Kirk
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 2:18 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] I’m only joking….
ROFLMAO
Donkey?????? Are you well hung or are u just an ass?
;o)
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]  I’m only joking….
Date: November 1, 2005 at 11:33:14 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Ahhhh dear Jasen you knowwww me too well!!!!!
LMAO
Cheers I got a great laugh out of your reply, was actually waiting for it!!!
Luff n laughs
HEAPS of
Kirsty :o)  ahhh  Moan-er  LOL (in the “good” sense of moaning that is…..;o)
From: Jasen Chamoun [mailto:jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au] 
Sent: Wednesday, 2 November 2005 5:31 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I’m only joking….
  Just being an ass,..that’s not really my nickname, nor do I have 12 piercings or 32 tattoos.
  Just one tattoo and 1 piercing.
  I thought “Donkey” would get a responce from you,… Mona. Now I’m laughing my head off!
                                                                   love ya Kirsty. Jasen
—– Original Message —–
From: Kirk
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 2:18 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] I’m only joking….
ROFLMAO
Donkey?????? Are you well hung or are u just an ass?
;o)
From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]  I’m only joking….
Date: November 1, 2005 at 11:31:14 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
  Just being an ass,..that’s not really my nickname, nor do I have 12 piercings or 32 tattoos.
  Just one tattoo and 1 piercing.
  I thought “Donkey” would get a responce from you,… Mona. Now I’m laughing my head off!
                                                                   love ya Kirsty. Jasen
—– Original Message —–
From: Kirk
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 2:18 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] I’m only joking….
ROFLMAO
Donkey?????? Are you well hung or are u just an ass?
;o)
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]  I’m only joking….
Date: November 1, 2005 at 11:18:40 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
ROFLMAO
Donkey?????? Are you well hung or are u just an ass?
;o)
From: Jasen Chamoun [mailto:jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au] 
Sent: Wednesday, 2 November 2005 5:14 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I’m only joking….
—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 12:37 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Let’s learn a little bit about each other!
HOW WELL DO I KNOW YOU   ???
How much do we actually know about our friends? Don’t pry.  This is a questionnaire to get to know them better.  Read through the comments below about your friend and then make sure you read the instructions at the bottom.  Have fun!

1. What time is it, Start time? 1:55pm

2. Your name: …… Jasen

3. Nickname: ………. Donkey
  
  4. Pirecing’s:…………….12

5. What is the most recent movie you’ve seen in the theater: Donkey
6. What is your eye color: Dark brown

7. Place of birth: Syria

8. Favorite food:  Hanibal

9.Ever been to Africa:   Only in spirit

10. Ever been toilet papering:  Yea in my toilet,..what do you guys use???

11. Love someone so much it made you cry: yes
12. Been in a car accident: ………….Yes

13. Croutons or bacon bits:  Neither

14. Favorite day of the week:……..Saturday
15. Favorite restaurants: to many to list

16. Favorite flower: ………..a nice bud in full bloom ready to be dried
17. Favorite sport to watch:  Football finals

18. Favorite drink: Beer

19. Favorite ice cream: pepermint choc chip

20. Disney or Warner Brothers:  Disney

21. Favorite fast food restaurant: None

22. What color is the carpet of your bedroom: hardwood

23. How many times you failed your drivers test:…..3

24. Before this one, from whom did you get your last email: .. Brian

25. Which store would you choose to Max out your credit card:  New place being opened in Mexico

26. What do you do most often when you are bored: Masturbate

27. Who will respond to this e-mail the quickest:…..Brenda

28. Who is the person you sent this to is least likely to respond: some joker called Jasen

29. Who are you the most curious about their responses to this questionnaire:    everyone!

30. Favorite TV shows:  Fat cat and friends and oh,..humphrey b bear

31. Last person you went to dinner with:  Judy,….yum yum
32. Ford or Chevy:  Betty Ford

33. What are you listening to right now:  Voices in my head

34. What is your favorite color:Royal  Blue

35. How many tattoos do you have: 32

36. How many pets do you have?  2 Kangaroos, 1 Koala, and a wombat.

RETURN DIRECTIONS: Now, here’s what you’re supposed to do… and please do not spoil the fun.  Hit reply, delete my answers and type in yours.
 Then send it to a whole bunch of people you know INCLUDING the person who sent it to you.  The theory is that you will learn a lot of little known facts about those who know you. Remember to send it back to the person who sent it to you.
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pian killer and stomach bleeding
Date: November 1, 2005 at 11:18:10 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Mark, well you should unsubscribe yourself from this list then!
I am not personally sending you messages you are receiving them from the Ibogaine list.
Try sending an email to this:  Ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com
Good luck
Kirsty
From: Mark Franzeskos [mailto:nsxy1@sbcglobal.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, 2 November 2005 5:12 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pian killer and stomach bleeding
stop sending me messages

Capt Kirk <captkirknz@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
I have a thing about doctors!  Not all…… but .. um every single one I have been to!. Luckily at the drug n alky clinic the new doctor embraces alternative treatments and is very easy to talk to, she even had a book that mentions Ibogaine, after I mentioned this is what I would be doing. ((my counsellor wants to be in on the session too lol).
Slightly off topic, but to do with stomach ulcers (supposedly due to ‘stress’)  have been shown to be caused by bacteria… when every med student is taught that bacteria can’t grow in the stomach environment (OMG the medical community are WRONG????? Gaaaasssspp)..these nobel prize aussies had a terrible battle convincing the community otherwise (well I guess the textbooks etc etc have to be changed.. lol) so one of them actually consumed the bacteria to cause ulcers to prove his point!!!  Thinking they  had a cure, which had only been tested on , urhh, whoops, three people.  Saw the interview on aussie tv this morning, what a hard case couple of scientists!!  Apparently, a Kiwi also took the same bacteria to try and prove this too, and it took him THREE years to get over it!!! Lmao.
Ahhh all in the name of science and medicine huh????
. I know low dose asprin is an 80 something milligram dosage. You should probably discuss this with your primary care Physician.
Personally I think that if you do not have pre-existing stomach ulcers or other problems, you are okay.
A lot of patients take medications that interact with other meds they take, especially blood thinners to prevent blood clots. tHE MOST FAMOUS ANTI-COAGULANT IS cOUMADIN (Warfarin is generic name)
I really think you should speak to Doctor at your next visit or give them a call.
Peace, Callie

—–Original Message—–
From: Capt Kirk <captkirknz@yahoo.co.uk>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 13:51:49 +1300
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pian killer and stomach bleeding
Any idea what quantity of aspirin they are talking about to cause this
stuff? I use aspirin off and on, sometimes the only thing that helps with
neck and back pain (lift shaft accident plus two whiplashes). Alternatives?
Cheers
Kirk
—–Original Message—–
From: Ibogi Boogie Boogie [mailto:GardenRestaurant@comcast.net]
Sent: Monday, 3 October 2005 12:50 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Pian killer and stomach bleeding
> Painkillers can cause fatal stomach bleeding
Wed Aug 24, 2005 03:41 PM ET
http://go.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=healthNews&storyID=9466011
NEW YORK (Reuters Health) – Approximately one third of all hospitalizations
and deaths related to gastrointestinal bleeding can be attributed to the
use of aspirin or nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory agents (NSAIDs)
painkillers like ibuprofen, a study in Spain suggests.
Moreover, up to one third of these painkiller-related incidents may be due
to low-dose aspirin.
Dr. Angel Lanas, at University Hospital in Zaragoza, and his associates
evaluated data from 26 Spanish hospitals on hospitalizations related to
peptic-ulcer disease or complications such as bleeding or perforation, as
well as drug use during the month prior to hospitalization.
They report their findings in the American Journal of Gastroenterology.
A total of 8010 serious gastrointestinal bleeding events were reported, and
among these, the mortality rate was 5.7 percent.
The authors report that the proportion of complications and deaths
attributed to NSAID and aspirin use was 36.3 percent. They also note that
nearly 90 percent of deaths occurred in patients older than 60 years of age.
To extrapolate the impact of aspirin and NSAID use on the general
population of Spain, Lanas’ group obtained data from 197 hospitals
representative of all the hospitals in the Spanish National Health System.
Their results suggest that the death rate resulting from NSAID- or
aspirin-related gastrointestinal complications was between 21 and 25 cases
per million inhabitants. This translates to about 15 such deaths for every
100,000 users of aspirin or NSAIDs.
According to the authors, these results highlight “the importance of taking
ever-greater steps to research new and better alternatives to treat pain
and inflammation in the elderly, to heighten physician and public awareness
of the associated problems of NSAID therapy, and to educate them on the use
of appropriate prevention strategies.”
Dr. Byron Cryer, from the Dallas VA Medical Center, agrees with this
conclusion. He writes in a related editorial: “Although clinically
significant gastrointestinal events with NSAIDs are uncommon, as a result
of the vast numbers of patients who take these medications, when assessed
by percentages these complications remain a significant public health
concern.”
SOURCE: American Journal of Gastroenterology, August 2005.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
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___________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Messenger – NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail
http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]  I’m only joking….
Date: November 1, 2005 at 11:14:29 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 12:37 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Let’s learn a little bit about each other!
HOW WELL DO I KNOW YOU   ???
How much do we actually know about our friends? Don’t pry.  This is a questionnaire to get to know them better.  Read through the comments below about your friend and then make sure you read the instructions at the bottom.  Have fun!
1. What time is it, Start time? 1:55pm
2. Your name: …… Jasen
3. Nickname: ………. Donkey
  4. Pirecing’s:…………….12
5. What is the most recent movie you’ve seen in the theater: Donkey
6. What is your eye color: Dark brown
7. Place of birth: Syria
8. Favorite food:  Hanibal
9.Ever been to Africa:   Only in spirit
10. Ever been toilet papering:  Yea in my toilet,..what do you guys use???
11. Love someone so much it made you cry: yes
12. Been in a car accident: ………….Yes
13. Croutons or bacon bits:  Neither
14. Favorite day of the week:……..Saturday
15. Favorite restaurants: to many to list
16. Favorite flower: ………..a nice bud in full bloom ready to be dried
17. Favorite sport to watch:  Football finals
18. Favorite drink: Beer
19. Favorite ice cream: pepermint choc chip
20. Disney or Warner Brothers:  Disney
21. Favorite fast food restaurant: None
22. What color is the carpet of your bedroom: hardwood
23. How many times you failed your drivers test:…..3
24. Before this one, from whom did you get your last email: .. Brian
25. Which store would you choose to Max out your credit card:  New place being opened in Mexico
26. What do you do most often when you are bored: Masturbate
27. Who will respond to this e-mail the quickest:…..Brenda
28. Who is the person you sent this to is least likely to respond: some joker called Jasen
29. Who are you the most curious about their responses to this questionnaire:    everyone!
30. Favorite TV shows:  Fat cat and friends and oh,..humphrey b bear
31. Last person you went to dinner with:  Judy,….yum yum
32. Ford or Chevy:  Betty Ford
33. What are you listening to right now:  Voices in my head
34. What is your favorite color:Royal  Blue
35. How many tattoos do you have: 32
36. How many pets do you have?  2 Kangaroos, 1 Koala, and a wombat.
RETURN DIRECTIONS: Now, here’s what you’re supposed to do… and please do not spoil the fun.  Hit reply, delete my answers and type in yours.
 Then send it to a whole bunch of people you know INCLUDING the person who sent it to you.  The theory is that you will learn a lot of little known facts about those who know you. Remember to send it back to the person who sent it to you.
From: Mark Franzeskos <nsxy1@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Homeopathic Healing
Date: November 1, 2005 at 11:13:12 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
stop sending me messages
Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
—–Original Message—–
From: Luke Christoffersen [mailto:luke.christoffersen@gmail.com]
Sent: 03 October 2005 23:48
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Homeopathic Healing
Hi Lee, Nick,
                 I was reading a book by Stan Grof on his LSD research and from what I gather it is similar to primal therapy, ibogaine, rebirthing… at least in the sense that it involves getting to the root of the symptoms by returning to resolve various trauma at different stages of life.  As regards other spiritual states that’s another area altogether.  I think symptoms can definitly get worse at times, my alergies became much worse after ibogaine.
   I think any kind of regression work involves lifting supression and this is much more so when psychadelics are used.  I’m sure I started having strange symtoms when I took lsd recreationally years back without having any knowlege of what was this was.  I know a couple of people who I think suffered adverse effects from this.  I know one guy who took acid twice and is now on 10 pills a day to supress his rage. It’s sad but how do you heal people?  What are the solutions?  There are so many sick people out there who are not given any option but to drug there problems away.
Luke
Hi Luke,
This guy with the anger from taking acid has to scream a lot, in a safe therapeutic setting. It’s just the body trying to re-open itself, having closed as a reaction to some form of invasion when he was a kid. In the group room you see this over and over again. It’s a problem with psychedelics that they can open you up faster than you can integrate the experience. This is less with iboga and ayahuasca which seem to have more subtlety to them.
Nick
On 10/3/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
—–Original Message—–
From: Lee Albert [mailto: myeboga@yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: 03 October 2005 18:41
To: Ibogaine List
Subject: [Ibogaine] Homeopathic Healing
Grof’s View on Healing
From: http://www.healthy.net/scr/interview.asp?PageType=Interview&ID=290
The attitude of Western psychiatry that sees mental health as simply the absence of symptoms certainly has to be radically revised. In the new understanding, emotional and psychosomatic symptoms are seen as expressions of the healing process of the organism, not as manifestations of disease. [Obviously this applies only to “functional” or psychologically determined disorders and not to clearly organic conditions, such as tumors, infections, or hardening of the arteries of the brain. Nor would it apply in certain states which are clearly manifestations of mental disease, such as severe paranoid conditions.] This new understanding can be described as “homeopathic”. In the alternative system of medicine known as homeopathy, the symptoms are then seen as expressions of healing, not the disease. Therapy in homeopathy consists of a temporary intensification of the symptoms to achieve wholeness. This approach results in profound healing and positive personality transformation rather than the impoverishment of vitality and functioning that accompanies pharmacological suppression of symptoms. The emphasis on constructive working with symptoms instead of their routine suppression is the first major difference between the strategies based on modern consciousness research and those used in mainstream psychiatry.
Lee – There are those who will consider that eboga has made life worse for them. This I would see as a stage in the healing process. Anyone seriously thinking of healing via eboga needs to be switched on to the high cost involved or perhaps stay away altogether. In any case i don’t imagine the eboga experience leaving a person in a state of distress greater than before unless that state were beneficial at the deepest and most important level in the long run for that person, i.e., at a soul level the person has agreed to it and welcomes it.
Hi Lee,
Basically, I agree with what you say but I find the argument a bit convoluted and Stan Grof’s quote also not so good. Yes, I think it is a “soul choice” to take ibogaine. That’s certainly been how I feel about it when I look back at the experience. And yes, one could say it was someone’s “soul choice” to die, or have an acutely bad experience, but (i) this has no legal validity in court, and (ii) personally, I think people do have a right to know about the risks that they face simply as a person, not as some “immortal soul” or something.
As to Stan’s quote, I find it pretty chaotic. The bit in []’s implies that one can determine ultimately the “source” of a complaint, whether it be pathalogical or psychological. I very much doubt this is possible and to try and claim that it is, anyway, is just as dualistic an interpretation of things as the traditional medicine he claims needs revising. Secondly, if homeopathy sees symptoms as simply an expression of healing, what, then, actually is the complaint? None presumably. Thus the whole paradigm of problem and treatment can be scrapped and all medicine people, be they doctors or healers, be forgotten. Homeopathy consists in treating like with like, as I recall, and yes sometimes things get worse before they get better. But healing itself is a completely not understood thing – it’s a reversal of thermodynamic laws and scientists and healers alike don’t understand it. Who can really state laws about healing? As to suppression, sometimes it’s the best thing to do. When you can’t deal with a problem effectively in the moment, suppression is a pretty good option. Also, while I’m at it, he doesn’t state how he’d replace “Western psychiatry’s” way of defining mental health. Absence of symptoms is pretty good, if a little dry. What he writes about moving towards working with symptomology I totally agree with personally though.
I do find it a bit of a worrying trend in new-agers like Stan (rather an old new-ager) that they proceed to merrily deconstruct established thought, which is cool, but then recreate it all again just to push their own favoured treatment methodologies. They wanna have it both ways. It’s a little bit a con really, not that people haven’t enjoyed better lives through Stan’s work, which, like Leonard Orr’s, is really just rehashed pranayama.
Nick
From: Mark Franzeskos <nsxy1@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pian killer and stomach bleeding
Date: November 1, 2005 at 11:11:45 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
stop sending me messages
Capt Kirk <captkirknz@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
I have a thing about doctors!  Not all…… but .. um every single one I have been to!. Luckily at the drug n alky clinic the new doctor embraces alternative treatments and is very easy to talk to, she even had a book that mentions Ibogaine, after I mentioned this is what I would be doing. ((my counsellor wants to be in on the session too lol).
Slightly off topic, but to do with stomach ulcers (supposedly due to ‘stress’)  have been shown to be caused by bacteria… when every med student is taught that bacteria can’t grow in the stomach environment (OMG the medical community are WRONG????? Gaaaasssspp)..these nobel prize aussies had a terrible battle convincing the community otherwise (well I guess the textbooks etc etc have to be changed.. lol) so one of them actually consumed the bacteria to cause ulcers to prove his point!!!  Thinking they  had a cure, which had only been tested on , urhh, whoops, three people.  Saw the interview on aussie tv this morning, what a hard case couple of scientists!!  Apparently, a Kiwi also took the same bacteria to try and prove this too, and it took him THREE years to get over it!!! Lmao.
Ahhh all in the name of science and medicine huh????
. I know low dose asprin is an 80 something milligram dosage. You should probably discuss this with your primary care Physician.
Personally I think that if you do not have pre-existing stomach ulcers or other problems, you are okay.
A lot of patients take medications that interact with other meds they take, especially blood thinners to prevent blood clots. tHE MOST FAMOUS ANTI-COAGULANT IS cOUMADIN (Warfarin is generic name)
I really think you should speak to Doctor at your next visit or give them a call.
Peace, Callie

—–Original Message—–
From: Capt Kirk <captkirknz@yahoo.co.uk>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 13:51:49 +1300
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pian killer and stomach bleeding
Any idea what quantity of aspirin they are talking about to cause this
stuff? I use aspirin off and on, sometimes the only thing that helps with
neck and back pain (lift shaft accident plus two whiplashes). Alternatives?
Cheers
Kirk
—–Original Message—–
From: Ibogi Boogie Boogie [mailto:GardenRestaurant@comcast.net]
Sent: Monday, 3 October 2005 12:50 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Pian killer and stomach bleeding
> Painkillers can cause fatal stomach bleeding
Wed Aug 24, 2005 03:41 PM ET
http://go.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=healthNews&storyID=9466011
NEW YORK (Reuters Health) – Approximately one third of all hospitalizations
and deaths related to gastrointestinal bleeding can be attributed to the
use of aspirin or nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory agents (NSAIDs)
painkillers like ibuprofen, a study in Spain suggests.
Moreover, up to one third of these painkiller-related incidents may be due
to low-dose aspirin.
Dr. Angel Lanas, at University Hospital in Zaragoza, and his associates
evaluated data from 26 Spanish hospitals on hospitalizations related to
peptic-ulcer disease or complications such as bleeding or perforation, as
well as drug use during the month prior to hospitalization.
They report their findings in the American Journal of Gastroenterology.
A total of 8010 serious gastrointestinal bleeding events were reported, and
among these, the mortality rate was 5.7 percent.
The authors report that the proportion of complications and deaths
attributed to NSAID and aspirin use was 36.3 percent. They also note that
nearly 90 percent of deaths occurred in patients older than 60 years of age.
To extrapolate the impact of aspirin and NSAID use on the general
population of Spain, Lanas’ group obtained data from 197 hospitals
representative of all the hospitals in the Spanish National Health System.
Their results suggest that the death rate resulting from NSAID- or
aspirin-related gastrointestinal complications was between 21 and 25 cases
per million inhabitants. This translates to about 15 such deaths for every
100,000 users of aspirin or NSAIDs.
According to the authors, these results highlight “the importance of taking
ever-greater steps to research new and better alternatives to treat pain
and inflammation in the elderly, to heighten physician and public awareness
of the associated problems of NSAID therapy, and to educate them on the use
of appropriate prevention strategies.”
Dr. Byron Cryer, from the Dallas VA Medical Center, agrees with this
conclusion. He writes in a related editorial: “Although clinically
significant gastrointestinal events with NSAIDs are uncommon, as a result
of the vast numbers of patients who take these medications, when assessed
by percentages these complications remain a significant public health
concern.”
SOURCE: American Journal of Gastroenterology, August 2005.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
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___________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Messenger – NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail
http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
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From: Carol Ann <saffireskyes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Let’s learn a little bit about each other!
Date: November 1, 2005 at 10:26:24 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
— CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
HOW WELL DO I KNOW YOU   ???
How much do we actually know  about our friends?
Don’t pry.  This is a
questionnaire to get to know them  better.  Read
through the comments below about
your friend and then make  sure you read the
instructions at the bottom.  Have
fun!
1. What time is it, Start time? 10:10 PM.
2. Your name: ……  Carol Ann
3. Nickname: ………. Rocky
4. Pirecing’s:……… 2 – ear lobes
5. What is the most recent movie you’ve seen: The
Snow Walker (Excellent)
6. What is your eye color: Brown
7. Place of birth: New York City
8. Favorite food:
9.Ever been to Africa:   No
10. Ever been toilet  papering:  No
11. Love someone so much it made you cry: yes
12. Been in a car accident: …………Yes
13. Croutons  or bacon bits:  Neither
14. Favorite day of the week:….Everyday
15. Favorite restaurants: Macraoni Grill
16. Favorite flowers: Orchid, Rose, Sunflower
17. Favorite sport to watch:  My Sons playing
Football or Baseball
18. Favorite drink:  Arizona Green Teas
19. Favorite ice cream:  TCBY – chocolate
20. Disney or Warner Brothers:   Neither
21. Favorite fast food restaurant:  Wendys
22. What color is the carpet of your bedroom: Beige
23. How  many times you failed your drivers
test:…..None
24. Before this one, from whom did you get your last
email:  Lovingstar
25. Which store would you choose to Max out your
credit card: Pier One would be great fun….
26. What do you do most often when you are bored:
Read
27. Who will respond to this e-mail the
quickest:…….hmmmmm, I don’t
really know
28. Who is the person you sent this to is least
likely to respond:  On this list?…Howard
29. Who are you the most curious about their
responses to this
questionnaire:    everyone!
30. Favorite TV  shows: Discovery
31. Last person you went to dinner with:  Me
32. Ford or Chevy: Dodge Ram
33. What are you listening to right now:  Silence
34. What is your favorite color: Blue
35. How many tattoos do  you have: 0
36. How many pets do you have? None
RETURN DIRECTIONS: Now, here’s what you’re supposed
to do… and please  do
not spoil the fun.  Hit reply, delete my answers and
type in  yours.
Then send it to a whole bunch of people you know
INCLUDING the  person who
sent it to you.  The theory is that you will learn a
lot of  little known facts
about those who know you. Remember to send it back
to  the person who sent it
to you.
Best regards,
Carol
_______________________________
Never Accept Only Two Choices in Life.
The problems of Today cannot be solved by the same thinking that created them.
-Al Einstein.
__________________________________
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com
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From: darkmattersfo@comcast.net
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Let’s learn a little bit about each other!
Date: November 1, 2005 at 10:20:47 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
HOW WELL DO I KNOW YOU   ???
How much do we actually know about our friends? Don’t pry.  This is a questionnaire to get to know them better.  Read through the comments below about your friend and then make sure you read the instructions at the bottom.  Have fun!
1. What time is it, Start time? 7:13 pm
2. Your name: …… mark
3. Nickname: ………. too many to mention
 4. Pirecing’s:…………….none
5. What is the most recent movie you’ve seen in the theater:.not sure
6. What is your eye color: hazel
7. Place of birth: tx
8. Favorite food: anything with lots of grease
9.Ever been to Africa:   why ask
10. Ever been toilet papering: only in spirit
11. Love someone so much it made you cry: yes
12. Been in a car accident: ………….yes
13. Croutons or bacon bits:  croutons
14. Favorite day of the week:……..monday
15. Favorite restaurants: sorry – denneys
16. Favorite flower: ………..a flowering one
17. Favorite sport to watch: pro fucking, or wrestling
18. Favorite drink: gin and tonic
19. Favorite ice cream: Vanilla
20. Disney or Warner Brothers: Disney was a nazi
21. Favorite fast food restaurant: they are all evil, but, ok, mcdonalds
22. What color is the carpet of your bedroom: hideous
23. How many times you failed your drivers test:…..once
24. Before this one, from whom did you get your last email: ..
an ex.
25. Which store would you choose to Max out your credit card:  dont have one
26. What do you do most often when you are bored: masturbate or eat
27. Who will respond to this e-mail the quickest:…….to me – moi!
28. Who is the person you sent this to is least likely to respond: ??
29. Who are you the most curious about their responses to this questionnaire:    The Feds
30. Favorite TV shows: Stargate, that 70’s show, Court TV,
31. Last person you went to dinner with: moi
32. Ford or Chevy: they both suck
33. What are you listening to right now: TV
34. What is your favorite color: black or sun
35. How many tattoos do you have:3
36. How many pets do you have? 0 animal, 3 familiars
RETURN DIRECTIONS: Now, here’s what you’re supposed to do… and please do not spoil the fun.  Hit reply, delete my answers and type in yours.
Then send it to a whole bunch of people you know INCLUDING the person who sent it to you.  The theory is that you will learn a lot of little known facts about those who know you. Remember to send it back to the person who sent it to you.
INBOX: Email 2 of 96 Previous Email Next Email
Comcast
Š 2005 Comcast Cable Communications, Inc. All rights reserved.
Privacy State
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Let’s learn a little bit about each other!
Date: November 1, 2005 at 9:37:25 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
HOW WELL DO I KNOW YOU   ???
How much do we actually know about our friends? Don’t pry.  This is a questionnaire to get to know them better.  Read through the comments below about your friend and then make sure you read the instructions at the bottom.  Have fun!
1. What time is it, Start time? 8:20 PM.
2. Your name: …… Tammy
3. Nickname: ………. Punkin’ Head
  4. Pirecing’s:…………….2; eye brow and nose
5. What is the most recent movie you’ve seen in the theater:…can’t remember cause it has been so long!
6. What is your eye color: Blue
7. Place of birth: Centerville,TN
8. Favorite food: fried catfish and hush puppies
9.Ever been to Africa:   No
10. Ever been toilet papering: Only once
11. Love someone so much it made you cry: yes
12. Been in a car accident: ………….not a bad one
13. Croutons or bacon bits:  Both
14. Favorite day of the week:……..Thursday
15. Favorite restaurants: Spaghetti Factory
16. Favorite flower: ………..orchids
17. Favorite sport to watch: Pro Football
18. Favorite drink: Pepsi
19. Favorite ice cream: Vanilla
20. Disney or Warner Brothers: Warner Brothers, I guess
21. Favorite fast food restaurant: Fazolis
22. What color is the carpet of your bedroom: hardwood
23. How many times you failed your drivers test:…..None
24. Before this one, from whom did you get your last email: ..
Uncle Bubba
25. Which store would you choose to Max out your credit card:  Pier One
26. What do you do most often when you are bored: Go to sleep
27. Who will respond to this e-mail the quickest:…….hmmmmm, I don’t really know
28. Who is the person you sent this to is least likely to respond: Lain
29. Who are you the most curious about their responses to this questionnaire:    everyone!
30. Favorite TV shows:  CSI, Survivor
31. Last person you went to dinner with: Charlie
32. Ford or Chevy: Chevy
33. What are you listening to right now: Best of Bowie
34. What is your favorite color: Blue
35. How many tattoos do you have: 0
36. How many pets do you have? 3 parakeets, 4 zebra finches, 1 little dog
RETURN DIRECTIONS: Now, here’s what you’re supposed to do… and please do not spoil the fun.  Hit reply, delete my answers and type in yours.
 Then send it to a whole bunch of people you know INCLUDING the person who sent it to you.  The theory is that you will learn a lot of little known facts about those who know you. Remember to send it back to the person who sent it to you.
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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Let’s learn a little bit about each other!
Date: November 1, 2005 at 10:17:58 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
HOW WELL DO I KNOW YOU   ???
How much do we actually know about our friends? Don’t pry.  This is a questionnaire to get to know them better.  Read through the comments below about your friend and then make sure you read the instructions at the bottom.  Have fun!

1. What time is it, Start time? 4:02pm

2. Your name: …… Wotsit to ya?

3. Nickname: ………. Cappen Koiky
  
  4. Pirecing’s:……………hope to get belly button done for B-day. Donations welcome.

5. What is the most recent movie you’ve seen in the theater:…DOOM!!!!
6. What is your eye color: hazelly, bloodshottily, liver spotted.

7. Place of birth: Palmerston New Zealand

8. Favorite food: Seafood (Seafood and Eat It)

9.Ever been to Africa:   Not physically

10. Ever been toilet papering: Nah, that’s just those weird American people that do that innit?

11. Love someone so much it made you cry: yes
12. Been in a car accident: ………….far too many, not my driving EITHER (oi,  that’s enuff snickering in the cheap seats!!!)

13. Croutons or bacon bits:  depends what I am supposed to be doing with them…..?????

14. Favorite day of the week:……..The one where I aint working…
15. Favorite restaurants:  The ones wot gots food in dem.

16. Favorite flower: ………..smelly ones
17. Favorite sport to watch: extreme sports

18. Favorite drink: Beer

19. Favorite ice cream: Morich Ciao Chocolato

20. Disney or Warner Brothers: I dunno, how many brothers does Disney have?

21. Favorite fast food restaurant: NONE BLOW EM ALL UP

22. What color is the carpet of your bedroom: grey with stains and  cat hair on.
23. How many times have you failed your drivers test:  whats a drivers test?

24. Before this one, from whom did you get your last email: .. Rachel Brownlee, Kiwi woman trying to get on the Ibogaine list, but not having much luck!

25. Which store would you choose to Max out your credit card:  Yaks n Yetis

26. What do you do most often when you are bored: Smoke ciggies and day dream

27. Who will respond to this e-mail the quickest:…….will they?

28. Who is the person you sent this to is least likely to respond:  are they?

29. Who are you the most curious about their responses to this questionnaire:    yes who, are you?
30. Favorite TV Shows:  Family guy, Angry Beavers, Ren and Stimpy, Ab Fab,
31. Last person you went to dinner with: My sis over from California
32. Ford or Chevy: Neither, MOPAR OR NO CAR
3. What are you listening to right now:  Robbie Williams on Juice tv BUT I DIDN”T PUT IT ON I SWEAR!!

34. What is your favorite color: All  shades of purple
35. How many tattoos do you have?  Used to have a lot on my boyfriend, but we split up, so none,,,, YET.

36. How many pets do you have? 2- however many cats chose to invade my home at any one time, and dog sitting one Bull Mastiff while owner is in Jail.

RETURN DIRECTIONS: Now, here’s what you’re supposed to do… and please do not spoil the fun.  Hit reply, delete my answers and type in yours.
 Then send it to a whole bunch of people you know INCLUDING the person who sent it to you.  The theory is that you will learn a lot of little known facts about those who know you. Remember to send it back to the person who sent it to you.
From: shakti@photon.net
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Let’s learn a little bit about each other!
Date: November 1, 2005 at 10:00:56 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
1. What time is it, Start time? 6:46 PM.
2. Your name: …… Brenda
3. Nickname: ………. Little Goose, Shakti
 4. Pirecing’s:…………….2 nose (not wearing currently) 5 ears
5. What is the most recent movie you’ve seen in the theater:…can’t
remember cause it has been so long! SAME!
6. What is your eye color: Hazel
7. Place of birth: Manhattan, NY
8. Favorite food: fried okra!  chinese chicken salad, sushi, szechuan
eggplant, eggplant parm, spanikopita, wild mushroom ravioli, filet mignon,
prime rib I LOVE FOOD!
9.Ever been to Africa:   No
10. Ever been toilet papering: NO
11. Love someone so much it made you cry: OF COURSE, SEVERAL TIMES
12. Been in a car accident: ………….BROKEN STERNUM, NICE LIL’ SCAR
UNDER CHIN
13. Croutons or bacon bits:  CROUTONS
14. Favorite day of the week:……..DEPENDS
15. Favorite restaurants: GOSH, DONT’ MAKE ME CHOOSE (have you ever been
to san francisco?)
16. Favorite flower: ………..orchids
17. Favorite sport to watch: Soccer, for the cute guys
18. Favorite drink: Chamomile tea
19. Favorite ice cream: Tiramasou
20. Disney or Warner Brothers: Warner Brothers, I guess (same, whatever)
21. Favorite fast food restaurant: Que Mas!
22. What color is the carpet of your bedroom: cream
23. How many times you failed your drivers test:…..None
24. Before this one, from whom did you get your last email: ..
SPAM
25. Which store would you choose to Max out your credit card: Loehmann’s
26. What do you do most often when you are bored: I’m not sure yet – I’ve
only been sober a few days…
27. Who will respond to this e-mail the quickest: dunno
28. Who is the person you sent this to is least likely to respond: I don’t
even know who’s here
29. Who are you the most curious about their responses to this
questionnaire:    everyone! me too!
30. Favorite TV shows:  Good Times, America’s Funniest Home Videos, The
Jeffersons, House
31. Last person you went to dinner with: My friend Terri
32. Ford or Chevy: Acura
33. What are you listening to right now: The chattering of my coworkers
34. What is your favorite color: Blue (me too)
35. How many tattoos do you have: 1
36. How many pets do you have? 2 cats – 1 3 mos old, 1 10 years old –
currently doing kitty psychology to heal the sibling riff
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WebMail provided by Photon.Net – http://www.photon.net/
Nationwide internet access, thousands of dial-up numbers!
Web hosting, multimedia broadcasting, e-commerce, and more.
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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Let’s learn a little bit about each other!
Date: November 1, 2005 at 9:37:09 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
HOW WELL DO I KNOW YOU   ???
How much do we actually know about our friends? Don’t pry.  This is a questionnaire to get to know them better.  Read through the comments below about your friend and then make sure you read the instructions at the bottom.  Have fun!
1. What time is it, Start time? 8:20 PM.
2. Your name: …… Tammy
3. Nickname: ………. Punkin’ Head
  4. Pirecing’s:…………….2; eye brow and nose
5. What is the most recent movie you’ve seen in the theater:…can’t remember cause it has been so long!
6. What is your eye color: Blue
7. Place of birth: Centerville,TN
8. Favorite food: fried catfish and hush puppies
9.Ever been to Africa:   No
10. Ever been toilet papering: Only once
11. Love someone so much it made you cry: yes
12. Been in a car accident: ………….not a bad one
13. Croutons or bacon bits:  Both
14. Favorite day of the week:……..Thursday
15. Favorite restaurants: Spaghetti Factory
16. Favorite flower: ………..orchids
17. Favorite sport to watch: Pro Football
18. Favorite drink: Pepsi
19. Favorite ice cream: Vanilla
20. Disney or Warner Brothers: Warner Brothers, I guess
21. Favorite fast food restaurant: Fazolis
22. What color is the carpet of your bedroom: hardwood
23. How many times you failed your drivers test:…..None
24. Before this one, from whom did you get your last email: ..
Uncle Bubba
25. Which store would you choose to Max out your credit card:  Pier One
26. What do you do most often when you are bored: Go to sleep
27. Who will respond to this e-mail the quickest:…….hmmmmm, I don’t really know
28. Who is the person you sent this to is least likely to respond: Lain
29. Who are you the most curious about their responses to this questionnaire:    everyone!
30. Favorite TV shows:  CSI, Survivor
31. Last person you went to dinner with: Charlie
32. Ford or Chevy: Chevy
33. What are you listening to right now: Best of Bowie
34. What is your favorite color: Blue
35. How many tattoos do you have: 0
36. How many pets do you have? 3 parakeets, 4 zebra finches, 1 little dog
RETURN DIRECTIONS: Now, here’s what you’re supposed to do… and please do not spoil the fun.  Hit reply, delete my answers and type in yours.
 Then send it to a whole bunch of people you know INCLUDING the person who sent it to you.  The theory is that you will learn a lot of little known facts about those who know you. Remember to send it back to the person who sent it to you.
From: Henk <knehnav@xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] entheogens
Date: December 1, 2005 at 5:55:01 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
The picture is taken near the town of  Real de Catorce, San Luis  Potosi, overlooking the plane, where Peyote grows.
I don’t know about that  retreat.
Henk
.Lee Albert wrote:
Hi Henk,
Thanks for the photo show.
Where exactly was that village located shown near the end? It looked like a very well ordered set of bungalows and plant patches etc Very tranquil. Like a place to visit and experience.
BTW have you heard of a retreat that takes place over 4 days where one goes into the mountains and drinks a liter of peyote only during that time?
For those interested I have posted more info on the Bwiti Cures in the South of France at:
www.my-eboga.com/guidedsessions.html
Lee
Henk <knehnav@xs4all.nl> wrote:
A bit off-topic, but…
Enjoy watching entheogens.
http://www.xs4all.nl/~knehnav/entheogens-zip.html
Henk
Om Shanti, Jai Mataji, Jai Gangama.
Lost and Free Enterprises
http://www.xs4all.nl/~knehnav
http://www.geocities.com/knehnav55/
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
Om Shanti, Jai Mataji, Jai Gangama.
Lost and Free Enterprises
http://www.xs4all.nl/~knehnav
http://www.geocities.com/knehnav55/
From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] entheogens
Date: November 1, 2005 at 5:13:38 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Henk,
Thanks for the photo show.
Where exactly was that village located shown near the end? It looked like a very well ordered set of bungalows and plant patches etc Very tranquil. Like a place to visit and experience.
BTW have you heard of a retreat that takes place over 4 days where one goes into the mountains and drinks a liter of peyote only during that time?
For those interested I have posted more info on the Bwiti Cures in the South of France at:
www.my-eboga.com/guidedsessions.html
Lee
Henk <knehnav@xs4all.nl> wrote:
A bit off-topic, but…
Enjoy watching entheogens.
http://www.xs4all.nl/~knehnav/entheogens-zip.html
Henk
Om Shanti, Jai Mataji, Jai Gangama.
Lost and Free Enterprises
http://www.xs4all.nl/~knehnav
http://www.geocities.com/knehnav55/
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
From: Henk <knehnav@xs4all.nl>
Subject: [Ibogaine] entheogens
Date: December 1, 2005 at 1:32:44 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
A bit off-topic, but…
Enjoy watching entheogens. http://www.xs4all.nl/~knehnav/entheogens-zip.html
Henk
Om Shanti, Jai Mataji, Jai Gangama.
Lost and Free Enterprises
http://www.xs4all.nl/~knehnav
http://www.geocities.com/knehnav55/
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Happy Halloween!
Date: November 1, 2005 at 4:44:48 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
From kirk lol
[Capt Kirk]
From: kiersten johnson <kiers10@mac.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] HUGE marijuana house found and owner arrested
Date: November 1, 2005 at 4:31:39 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Preston, you would smoke your children??? whoa. you are hard core.
happy all saint’s day.
kiersten
On Oct 31, 2005, at 2:04 PM, Preston Peet wrote:
I often wonder what the pot would look like if I planted and tried to grow the seeds I’ve found over the years in some pretty decent pot, and in some not so decent too. I’ve been thinking that perhaps, if I were to take extra time and loving care with the plants as though they were my children, which basically they would be were I not too paranoid to actually grow any plants here at home and don’t travel too well so don’t have anywhere outside of my home where I grow either (in case you’re listening feds- I don’t grow pot, anywhere), would I be able to actually grow decent herb? Or would it automatically sprout as generally yucky herb?
  Just curious- I’m not planning on growing herb any time in the near or even fairly far future, at least at this point in time.
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —– From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2005 7:20 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] HUGE marijuana house found and owner arrested
God I love the South. I wonder if the cops have any good clones that will “disappear” from the evidence room, we sure can’t get any good seeds anymore.               Randy
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