Ibogaine List Archives – 2003-10

From: Match27552@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] After Ibogaine For Jaden
Date: October 31, 2003 at 4:40:03 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

He lives in Texas and i’ve found pros and cons on obogain use as a cure for herion addiction also clinics in Mexico. What he is concerned with is whether or not it’s another waste of hard earned money.

From: Match27552@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] To Match
Date: October 31, 2003 at 4:35:02 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m sorry Jardine but it seems you didn’t understand what I was asking. I’m not asking for info for myself I’m trying to help a friend.

From: Match27552@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] To Match
Date: October 31, 2003 at 4:31:41 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thank you Callie

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Martine
Date: October 31, 2003 at 4:01:39 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello Martine and thanks for the personal inquiry!
I live in Nashville, Tennessee so I will have to travel to experience Ibogaine. I have started an ‘Ibogaine savings jar’ to help financially. I live on a Practical Nurse salary which is enough for necessities but little left for anything extra.
I just joined the list in September. I was researching Methadone when I came across an Ibogaine link. It was the first I had ever heard of it. No one in my social or professional circle has heard of it either. In fact, all I have received back after I tell someone about Ibogaine is skepticism and a confused or worried look!! As soon as I said it is a hallucinogenic people turned completely off so now I just say it is an African plant with great ability to treat opiate addiction. I then encourage them to do their own research!
If you have any ideas on how I might speed up my ‘future’ please let me know.
Do you work in an Ibogaine Center?
Again, thanks for the inquiry!
Callie

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Wish me luck on my new exercise program!
Date: October 31, 2003 at 3:07:11 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Subject: New exercise program

Here’s  what  I am using to stay in shape this year. You might want to take it easy at first, then do it gradually faster as you become more proficient. It may be too strenuous for some.

Do not forget:

ALWAYS CONSULT YOUR DOCTOR BEFORE

STARTING ANY EXERCISE PROGRAM.

NOW SCROLL DOWN . . .

NOW SCROLL UP. . .

Good! That’s enough for the first day!

Peace and laughter! Callie

From: “Brad Fisher” <brad.fisher@guaranty.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] After Ibo Advice
Date: October 31, 2003 at 12:14:42 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’ve wondered “who” decided-determined that any use of a particular chemical
was to be labeled by every one “abuse” .What happened to
“use-with-caution”.How could someone decide that any use of Cocaine anywhere
in the world was Cocaine abuse, any marijuana use was abuse. Now we know
that “some” Doctors in “some” places can determine that under “some”
circumstances Marijuana use is actually not abuse but beneficial!!?? How did
we let ourselves be so mislead??
bf

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 4:32 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] After Ibo Advice

As a nurse, I simply listen to informations given and I’ve heard that some
young people taking cannabis are now received in addiction centers, that was
not the case before, as long as I know.<

Wellll, given the choice between sending your kid to jail or to treatment,
which would you choose to do? If you were a kid facing treatment or jail,
which would you prefer? The feds skew stats to say whatever they want, and
this is one of the worst examples Martine, the whole, “marijuana has more
kids in treatment than any other drugs.” It’s the one more people, including
kids, use, (other than say, alcohol) and therefore it’s the one more people
are caught using, including kids. Hence, it stands to reason it would be the
leading cause of treatment entry, no?

And to close the talk about it from my point of view, I’d like to say that
the son of one of my friend is in jail for years because he decided to
punish a dealer who didn’t give him right stuff, cannabis; the dealer died,
for teenagers are in jail.
There is too much violence around it, let’s say cannabis isn’t the solution
that I would propose to someone who works to free himself/herself from
chemical addiction of any kind.<

So he wasn’t even stoned I take it when he and friends committed this
murder, as he didn’t get the cannabis product he wanted from his “dealer”?
So it wasn’t the pot that lead to violence, it was stupidity and blackmarket
trading, both direct results of prohibition and propaganda. This son of one
of your friends deserves to be in jail as near as I can tell from this very
limited description, and it hasn’t a thing to do with pot USE.
All use does NOT equal abuse, not of anything, in my own book anyway.
And I’ve a question- do you also feel that anyone wishing to free
themselves of “chemical addiction of any kind” should also steer clear of
sugar, coffee, tobacco, etc?
Peace to all and happy halloween.
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Martine Docin-Julien
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 2:55 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] After Ibo Advice

Hello, I am not trying to bring any kind of propaganda about cannabis and
I’ve no interest about it.
As a nurse, I simply listen to informations given and I’ve heard that some
young people taking cannabis are now received in addiction centers, that was
not the case before, as long as I know.
I’m not a specialist in that area, but I’ve heard of the research done about
the healing properties of the cannabis and I’m quite sure that cannabis can
be used in some case by people knowing how to deal with it for healing
purpose, as for all the plants on earth.
I’m in relationship with a Bwiti Nganga and I will ask him what he thinks of
joining Iboga and cannabis.
And to close the talk about it from my point of view, I’d like to say that
the son of one of my friend is in jail for years because he decided to
punish a dealer who didn’t give him right stuff, cannabis; the dealer died,
for teenagers are in jail.
There is too much violence around it, let’s say cannabis isn’t the solution
that I would propose to someone who works to free himself/herself from
chemical addiction of any kind.
But you’re free to defend your own opinion.

Friendly,
Martine
—– Original Message —–
From: GanjaCat
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 7:52 PM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] After Ibo Advice

Most of what you said I applaud, but the snip below I cannot let pass..

—–Original Message—–
From: Martine Docin-Julien [mailto:jardin.dj@free.fr]
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 3:54 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] After Ibo Advice

, so I really don’t understand how a substance known to create addiction can
be of good help ?
I think it would made me feel crazy to take marijuana when there is in fact
no more need for that kind of stuff.

DO MORE RESEARCH & leave your dogma at home. Cannabis is NOT an addiction
causing substance, that’s why Ibo has no effect on it. Cannabis is a valid
and documented medicine full stop. Don’t bring self-righteous prohibitionist
propaganda to a list dedicated to getting out the truth of the benefits of
one plant substance by slagging off another.

Also, I was informed that the Bwiti have used cannabis in their ibo rituals.

From: “Martine Docin-Julien” <jardin.dj@free.fr>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] To Match
Date: October 31, 2003 at 11:53:07 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello, how long before trying Iboga yourself ?
Where and when do the future begins 😉 ?

Martine
—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 5:06 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] To Match

Your friend is very lucky to have someone as concerned as you for a friend.
I am also an addict looking for ‘the cure’!
My drug(s) of choice was any opiates.
I have been on Methadone for about 7 years. While I agree with you that I have only traded addictions, Methadone maintenance has given me back my life! I am able to function as a human being again! I work 40 plus hours a week without stealing medications from my patients, eat 2 or 3 meals a day, think of others sometimes instead of always thinking only of myself and I can go inside someone’s bathroom without going through the medicine cabinet or closet!
introduce your friend to this list. He might be interested in it and may want to try Ibogaine. I have not tried it but I am very interested and hope to in the future.
Good luck to you please keep us posted!
Peace and Petty!!

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] To Match
Date: October 31, 2003 at 11:06:37 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Your friend is very lucky to have someone as concerned as you for a friend.
I am also an addict looking for ‘the cure’!
My drug(s) of choice was any opiates.
I have been on Methadone for about 7 years. While I agree with you that I have only traded addictions, Methadone maintenance has given me back my life! I am able to function as a human being again! I work 40 plus hours a week without stealing medications from my patients, eat 2 or 3 meals a day, think of others sometimes instead of always thinking only of myself and I can go inside someone’s bathroom without going through the medicine cabinet or closet!
introduce your friend to this list. He might be interested in it and may want to try Ibogaine. I have not tried it but I am very interested and hope to in the future.
Good luck to you please keep us posted!
Peace and Petty!!

From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] For all the New York wise mean, sages, and fools
Date: October 31, 2003 at 11:00:13 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This sounds to me like a play that nobody should miss.  In fact, it should be copied, burned, and disseminated to every city in the nation.  Political satire with a strong punch.  It makes me wish I was in NY or that I had a trip there planned for the near future.  Simply putting the name of the play in this Email would likely get me tagged and arrested, so I won’t do that….but take a look.  I’d be interested in comments from anyone who has seen the play.

http://www.newsfrombabylon.com/article.php?sid=3355

Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including attachments, is for
the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and
privleged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, or
distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please
contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original
message.

From: “Martine Docin-Julien” <jardin.dj@free.fr>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] After Ibogaine For Jaden
Date: October 31, 2003 at 10:58:13 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello, where is your friend living ? What have you already found on the net ?

Martine
—– Original Message —–
From: Match27552@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 4:05 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] After Ibogaine For Jaden

I have a friend who has been on herion for 30 years and desperately wants to quit. He has tried several detox programs without success and I was hopeing someone out there could give us some advice on how to help him. He is sincere in his wish to rid himself of this terrible addiction. The methodone treatment seems to be a totally useless way of treating the addiction( tradeing one addiction for another). Any help and information would be appreciated.

Thank you

From: Match27552@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] After Ibogaine For Jaden
Date: October 31, 2003 at 10:05:42 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I have a friend who has been on herion for 30 years and desperately wants to quit. He has tried several detox programs without success and I was hopeing someone out there could give us some advice on how to help him. He is sincere in his wish to rid himself of this terrible addiction. The methodone treatment seems to be a totally useless way of treating the addiction( tradeing one addiction for another). Any help and information would be appreciated.

Thank you

From: “Martine Docin-Julien” <jardin.dj@free.fr>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] After Ibo Advice
Date: October 31, 2003 at 9:55:36 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello, I’ve some difficulties to understand precisely what you’re writing, probably cause english is not my mother tongue. Can you explain your point of view one more time if I’ve misunderstood your message ? Or did I get it right understanding that there are ever more kids facing treatments or jails, cause cannabis is more and more used ? And prohibited ?

As for the young son of that friend of mine, he was no more living with her mother but she is sure that he was ” under cannabis effect ” with his friends when they prepared their meeting with the dealer.
And the desinhibition due to cannabis (as for alcohol) is well known too, isn’t ?
If I’ve get true informations, they did’nt pretend to kill the dealer, they wanted to impress him cause the son of my friend was caught in a spiral of violence for weeks, with blackmail, threats, agression and so on.
And from my point of view it’s the use of cannabis which created the beginning of that whole sad story.

I feel tenderness for that young guy and for his friends who expressed their loyalty by accepting to accompany him to his date with the dealer,  but I agree that he is partly responsible of that death, even if he wasn’t the one who shot.
In jail, he has to face one more time dangers and violence, agressions, loneliness, culpability and self depreciation, and drugs.

I have no idea of what is ” good” and what is ” bad ” around cannabis, I think that the use of it right now in  our western culture can be the beginning of lies, blackmails, blackmarket and violence, especially for young people.
Should it be free ? Under government regulation to warranty its quality ? I’m not the right person to answer.

As a nurse, I will not get to someone emerging from addiction, the advice to take cannabis as a healing helper. No way, I can’t, however, you certainly have a lot more knowledge than I have about the therapeutical uses of cannabis.
For me, the use of it in our western culture is too tied with complexity, transgression, marginalisation to be recommended as a solution.

Friendly,
Martine

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 1:31 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] After Ibo Advice

> >As a nurse, I simply listen to informations given and I’ve heard that some
> young people taking cannabis are now received in addiction centers, that was
> not the case before, as long as I know.<
>
>>
> >And to close the talk about it >from my point of view, I’d like to say that
> the son of one of my friend is in jail for years because he decided to
> punish a dealer who didn’t give him right stuff, cannabis; the dealer died,
> for teenagers are in jail.
> There is too much violence around it, let’s say cannabis isn’t the solution
> that I would propose to someone who works to free himself/herself from
> chemical addiction of any kind.<
>
> So he wasn’t even stoned I take it when he and friends committed this
> murder, as he didn’t get the cannabis product he wanted >from his “dealer”?
> So it wasn’t the pot that lead to violence, it was stupidity and blackmarket
> trading, both direct results of prohibition and propaganda. This son of one
> of your friends deserves to be in jail as near as I can tell from this very
> limited description, and it hasn’t a thing to do with pot USE.
> All use does NOT equal abuse, not of anything, in my own book anyway.
>     And I’ve a question- do you also feel that anyone wishing to free
> themselves of “chemical addiction of any kind” should also steer clear of
> sugar, coffee, tobacco, etc?
> Peace to all and happy halloween.
> Preston
>
>
>
> —– Original Message —–
> From: Martine Docin-Julien
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 2:55 PM
> Subject: Re: [ibogaine] After Ibo Advice
>
>
> Hello, I am not trying to bring any kind of propaganda about cannabis and
> I’ve no interest about it.
> As a nurse, I simply listen to informations given and I’ve heard that some
> young people taking cannabis are now received in addiction centers, that was
> not the case before, as long as I know.
> I’m not a specialist in that area, but I’ve heard of the research done about
> the healing properties of the cannabis and I’m quite sure that cannabis can
> be used in some case by people knowing how to deal with it for healing
> purpose, as for all the plants on earth.
> I’m in relationship with a Bwiti Nganga and I will ask him what he thinks of
> joining Iboga and cannabis.
> And to close the talk about it from my point of view, I’d like to say that
> the son of one of my friend is in jail for years because he decided to
> punish a dealer who didn’t give him right stuff, cannabis; the dealer died,
> for teenagers are in jail.
> There is too much violence around it, let’s say cannabis isn’t the solution
> that I would propose to someone who works to free himself/herself from
> chemical addiction of any kind.
> But you’re free to defend your own opinion.
>
> Friendly,
> Martine
> —– Original Message —–
> From: GanjaCat
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 7:52 PM
> Subject: RE: [ibogaine] After Ibo Advice
>
>
> Most of what you said I applaud, but the snip below I cannot let pass..
>
> —–Original Message—–
> From: Martine Docin-Julien [mailto:jardin.dj@free.fr]
> Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 3:54 PM
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Subject: Re: [ibogaine] After Ibo Advice
>
> , so I really don’t understand how a substance known to create addiction can
> be of good help ?
> I think it would made me feel crazy to take marijuana when there is in fact
> no more need for that kind of stuff.
>
> DO MORE RESEARCH & leave your dogma at home. Cannabis is NOT an addiction
> causing substance, that’s why Ibo has no effect on it. Cannabis is a valid
> and documented medicine full stop. Don’t bring self-righteous prohibitionist
> propaganda to a list dedicated to getting out the truth of the benefits of
> one plant substance by slagging off another.
>
> Also, I was informed that the Bwiti have used cannabis in their ibo rituals.
>
>
>
>

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] After Ibo Advice
Date: October 31, 2003 at 7:31:43 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

As a nurse, I simply listen to informations given and I’ve heard that some
young people taking cannabis are now received in addiction centers, that was
not the case before, as long as I know.<

Wellll, given the choice between sending your kid to jail or to treatment,
which would you choose to do? If you were a kid facing treatment or jail,
which would you prefer? The feds skew stats to say whatever they want, and
this is one of the worst examples Martine, the whole, “marijuana has more
kids in treatment than any other drugs.” It’s the one more people, including
kids, use, (other than say, alcohol) and therefore it’s the one more people
are caught using, including kids. Hence, it stands to reason it would be the
leading cause of treatment entry, no?

And to close the talk about it from my point of view, I’d like to say that
the son of one of my friend is in jail for years because he decided to
punish a dealer who didn’t give him right stuff, cannabis; the dealer died,
for teenagers are in jail.
There is too much violence around it, let’s say cannabis isn’t the solution
that I would propose to someone who works to free himself/herself from
chemical addiction of any kind.<

So he wasn’t even stoned I take it when he and friends committed this
murder, as he didn’t get the cannabis product he wanted from his “dealer”?
So it wasn’t the pot that lead to violence, it was stupidity and blackmarket
trading, both direct results of prohibition and propaganda. This son of one
of your friends deserves to be in jail as near as I can tell from this very
limited description, and it hasn’t a thing to do with pot USE.
All use does NOT equal abuse, not of anything, in my own book anyway.
And I’ve a question- do you also feel that anyone wishing to free
themselves of “chemical addiction of any kind” should also steer clear of
sugar, coffee, tobacco, etc?
Peace to all and happy halloween.
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Martine Docin-Julien
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 2:55 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] After Ibo Advice

Hello, I am not trying to bring any kind of propaganda about cannabis and
I’ve no interest about it.
As a nurse, I simply listen to informations given and I’ve heard that some
young people taking cannabis are now received in addiction centers, that was
not the case before, as long as I know.
I’m not a specialist in that area, but I’ve heard of the research done about
the healing properties of the cannabis and I’m quite sure that cannabis can
be used in some case by people knowing how to deal with it for healing
purpose, as for all the plants on earth.
I’m in relationship with a Bwiti Nganga and I will ask him what he thinks of
joining Iboga and cannabis.
And to close the talk about it from my point of view, I’d like to say that
the son of one of my friend is in jail for years because he decided to
punish a dealer who didn’t give him right stuff, cannabis; the dealer died,
for teenagers are in jail.
There is too much violence around it, let’s say cannabis isn’t the solution
that I would propose to someone who works to free himself/herself from
chemical addiction of any kind.
But you’re free to defend your own opinion.

Friendly,
Martine
—– Original Message —–
From: GanjaCat
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 7:52 PM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] After Ibo Advice

Most of what you said I applaud, but the snip below I cannot let pass..

—–Original Message—–
From: Martine Docin-Julien [mailto:jardin.dj@free.fr]
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 3:54 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] After Ibo Advice

, so I really don’t understand how a substance known to create addiction can
be of good help ?
I think it would made me feel crazy to take marijuana when there is in fact
no more need for that kind of stuff.

DO MORE RESEARCH & leave your dogma at home. Cannabis is NOT an addiction
causing substance, that’s why Ibo has no effect on it. Cannabis is a valid
and documented medicine full stop. Don’t bring self-righteous prohibitionist
propaganda to a list dedicated to getting out the truth of the benefits of
one plant substance by slagging off another.

Also, I was informed that the Bwiti have used cannabis in their ibo rituals.

From: “Allison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] fish
Date: October 31, 2003 at 5:03:16 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yip, fish are cool.  Our goldfish know us I am sure and they are so calming to watch.  Mind you I’m an animal nut & prefer them to people at times.   Allison

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Friday, 31 October 2003 3:05:43 p.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] fish

Love the fish picture! The colors are beautiful.
I have two pet fish. They are the Beta fighting fish. One is red (rusty) and one is blue (Simon Peter). They have personalities and recognize me when I come to their bowls. No joke!
Peace, Callie
____________________________________________________
IncrediMail – Email has finally evolved – Click Here

From: “Martine Docin-Julien” <jardin.dj@free.fr>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Thanks a lot Jaden 😉
Date: October 31, 2003 at 4:34:02 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Jaden, thanks for your feed-back ! 😉

Have you already discovered or are you discovering that you are a ” valid” and special human being, worthy to receive love, able of self regard and thus on your own way for your personal growth ?
Those are the kind of presents Iboga give, and I wonder which are the special ones you have received for your own 😉

I have the feeling that you live the healing process in an accute way, “bubbling” with a lot of informations now present in your consciousness, so, if I had an advice to give to you, I’d say : Keep moving on, with your fresh consciousness, joy and expectations as the Iboga process is one that allows deep and inner rebirth.
And if some difficulty cross your road, you’ll maybe see that the flow going on don’t allow it to take as much wheight, to last as long as ” before “.
I’ve noticed that the Iboga process gives me that inner freedom too, that fluidity.
Have you already begun sometimes to think, feel, or speak of ” before ” ?
I did ;-).

For my part, I’m now eager to understand ” where” I’ve been during those two days and nights of Iboga process and I’d like to be able to name those spaces I’ve been to.

Who knows amid all the readers of that list, the western names given to those psychic or energetic spaces and places ? I’m quite sure that they are part of the human commun inheritance.

Friendly,
Martine

—– Original Message —–
From: Jaden Shaw
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 5:27 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] After Ibogaine For Jaden

Hey Martine

Thats what Im talking about. I needed to hear that. It reminded me. Need time to sort it out but thank you.
Jaden

Martine Docin-Julien <jardin.dj@free.fr> wrote:
Hello Jaden, I don’t know what you mean with ” a gram of HCL “, is it simply Ibogaine ?
If it’s what you mean, I think I can understand your need of informations and advices cause I have done what is called here in France “Healing session  with Ibogaine “, for self-development purpose, a week ago, and right now, I’ve more questions than answers and I feel some frustration too.

About your lack of sleep, I’ve heard that it is very normal for most of the people who take Iboga, and it may last for a couple of weeks. I don’t live the same but I have dreams that awake me in the night.

The mind or spirit is working much more than usual, and on new ways. Less energy is needed for the sleep; do you feel tired or are you simply surprised to need less hours of rest right now ?

Do you meet a psychotherapist to whom you’ve explained your work with Ibogaïne ? It’s very important to share with a professionnel of help all the ” stuff ” that your are discovering, to understand the healing process that is on and to have the opportunity to listen and to understand what your deep self is saying to you, probably through pictures, rememberings, symbols, visions and so on. Don’t miss this opportunity 😉

Have you begun to write or to draw or anything else to get in touch with what you ” see ” or have seen during the healing trip, when you’ve taken Iboga ?
I’ve writen lost of notes on post-it when I was back home and I noticed with  great surprise that the fact of writing things did lighten some of them, I could suddendly understand or get new understanding about a vision I had, about people I’ve met during those visions.

I really hope you’ll made good use of your window, you have opened it, enjoy it !! The man giving the opportunity to work with Iboga here in France, is used to help addicts who want to get free, and really he says that the work after has to be done with a psychotherapist, it’s a deep work, a mighty one and I’m sure that you desserve the best in your desire to discover what life is now that you’ve get rid of the bad stuffs.

About all that is running in your head, have you been told that you can get in touch with the pictures by asking questions to the picture itself or to a person present in it, or to a symbol, a thing present too in what you see ?
If you do so, you’ll probably see the picture getting through transformations till it get ” empty ” I mean I had the feeling my look ” obliged” the picture to open, it get more simple, informations were living the vision till I had the feeling the process presented by the picture was over, and then a new picture came and I did the same job, either asked ” Who are you ” or look with precision to something that was in some way attracting my interest, curiosity, and both ways did worked.
I understood that in so doing, the informations get understood by me, “washed” in some way and something new could arrive.

Have you done your healing process with an europeen or with an african healer, formed to that special way for healing both mind and spirit ?
I’ve done the process with a traditionnal healer from Gabon, and I think it’s important to get the mind open to the unknown, to dare see what you ” see” and to dare feel what you feel and think what you think and understand what you understand as long as the process is on, cause this special journey is yours, the one you’re making in and with your own spirit, your own self.

That’s all I wanted to share with you, I hope you’ll do the right job for your self, take good care !

Friendly,
Martine
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From: Jaden Shaw <jadensheldon@yahoo.ca>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] After Ibogaine For Jaden
Date: October 30, 2003 at 11:27:55 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Martine

Thats what Im talking about. I needed to hear that. It reminded me. Need time to sort it out but thank you.
Jaden

Martine Docin-Julien <jardin.dj@free.fr> wrote:
Hello Jaden, I don’t know what you mean with ” a gram of HCL “, is it simply Ibogaine ?
If it’s what you mean, I think I can understand your need of informations and advices cause I have done what is called here in France “Healing session  with Ibogaine “, for self-development purpose, a week ago, and right now, I’ve more questions than answers and I feel some frustration too.

About your lack of sleep, I’ve heard that it is very normal for most of the people who take Iboga, and it may last for a couple of weeks. I don’t live the same but I have dreams that awake me in the night.

The mind or spirit is working much more than usual, and on new ways. Less energy is needed for the sleep; do you feel tired or are you simply surprised to need less hours of rest right now ?

Do you meet a psychotherapist to whom you’ve explained your work with Ibogaļne ? It’s very important to share with a professionnel of help all the ” stuff ” that your are discovering, to understand the healing process that is on and to have the opportunity to listen and to understand what your deep self is saying to you, probably through pictures, rememberings, symbols, visions and so on. Don’t miss this opportunity 😉

Have you begun to write or to draw or anything else to get in touch with what you ” see ” or have seen during the healing trip, when you’ve taken Iboga ?
I’ve writen lost of notes on post-it when I was back home and I noticed with  great surprise that the fact of writing things did lighten some of them, I could suddendly understand or get new understanding about a vision I had, about people I’ve met during those visions.

I really hope you’ll made good use of your window, you have opened it, enjoy it !! The man giving the opportunity to work with Iboga here in France, is used to help addicts who want to get free, and really he says that the work after has to be done with a psychotherapist, it’s a deep work, a mighty one and I’m sure that you desserve the best in your desire to discover what life is now that you’ve get rid of the bad stuffs.

About all that is running in your head, have you been told that you can get in touch with the pictures by asking questions to the picture itself or to a person present in it, or to a symbol, a thing present too in what you see ?
If you do so, you’ll probably see the picture getting through transformations till it get ” empty ” I mean I had the feeling my look ” obliged” the picture to open, it get more simple, informations were living the vision till I had the feeling the process presented by the picture was over, and then a new picture came and I did the same job, either asked ” Who are you ” or look with precision to something that was in some way attracting my interest, curiosity, and both ways did worked.
I understood that in so doing, the informations get understood by me, “washed” in some way and something new could arrive.

Have you done your healing process with an europeen or with an african healer, formed to that special way for healing both mind and spirit ?
I’ve done the process with a traditionnal healer from Gabon, and I think it’s important to get the mind open to the unknown, to dare see what you ” see” and to dare feel what you feel and think what you think and understand what you understand as long as the process is on, cause this special journey is yours, the one you’re making in and with your own spirit, your own self.

That’s all I wanted to share with you, I hope you’ll do the right job for your self, take good care !

Friendly,
Martine
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From: “Martine Docin-Julien” <jardin.dj@free.fr>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] After Ibo Advice
Date: October 30, 2003 at 3:45:39 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks for the url to Taketina, I found the site interesting and I’ve asked for further informations about their training in Switzerland.
I’ve listened to their musical pieces and I found it enchanting: I’m looking for an opportunity to learn to play drums too, with that kind of inner consciousness of what is done.
I really did appreciate too the use of the 8 chords harp during the two nights of my Iboga session, and I’ve the desire to get one and to learn to play those special rythms used by the Nganga.

Martine

From: “Bill Ross” <ross@cgl.ucsf.edu>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 8:32 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] After Ibo Advice

From: “Martine Docin-Julien” <jardin.dj@free.fr>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] After Ibo Advice
Date: October 30, 2003 at 2:55:25 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello, I am not trying to bring any kind of propaganda about cannabis and I’ve no interest about it.
As a nurse, I simply listen to informations given and I’ve heard that some young people taking cannabis are now received in addiction centers, that was not the case before, as long as I know.
I’m not a specialist in that area, but I’ve heard of the research done about the healing properties of the cannabis and I’m quite sure that cannabis can be used in some case by people knowing how to deal with it for healing purpose, as for all the plants on earth.
I’m in relationship with a Bwiti Nganga and I will ask him what he thinks of joining Iboga and cannabis.
And to close the talk about it from my point of view, I’d like to say that the son of one of my friend is in jail for years because he decided to punish a dealer who didn’t give him right stuff, cannabis; the dealer died, for teenagers are in jail.
There is too much violence around it, let’s say cannabis isn’t the solution that I would propose to someone who works to free himself/herself from chemical addiction of any kind.
But you’re free to defend your own opinion.

Friendly,
Martine
—– Original Message —–
From: GanjaCat
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 7:52 PM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] After Ibo Advice

Most of what you said I applaud, but the snip below I cannot let pass……

—–Original Message—–
From: Martine Docin-Julien [mailto:jardin.dj@free.fr] 
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 3:54 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] After Ibo Advice

, so I really don’t understand how a substance known to create addiction can be of good help ?
I think it would made me feel crazy to take marijuana when there is in fact no more need for that kind of stuff.

DO MORE RESEARCH & leave your dogma at home. Cannabis is NOT an addiction causing substance, that’s why Ibo has no effect on it. Cannabis is a valid and documented medicine full stop. Don’t bring self-righteous prohibitionist propaganda to a list dedicated to getting out the truth of the benefits of one plant substance by slagging off another.

Also, I was informed that the Bwiti have used cannabis in their ibo rituals.

From: Bill Ross <ross@cgl.ucsf.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] After Ibo Advice
Date: October 30, 2003 at 2:32:37 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I really don’t understand how a substance known to create
addiction [marijuana] can be of good help ?

I think many would argue that marijuana itself is not addictive
and that there is no evidence that it leads to addiction to
other drugs. As far as I know, the evidence supports these
positions.

Assuming that marijuana is “psychologically addictive” or not an
optimal life choice in general, the side effects are still minimal
compared to alcohol, opiates, nicotine etc., so if one could use
marijuana to stay away from these, it would be a harm reduction
measure.

I think it would made me feel crazy to take marijuana when there is in =
fact no more need for that kind of stuff.

I doubt that many would recommend it to someone who didn’t want it
and who was capable of remaining clean.

Note that ibogaine is not considered an automatic cure for addiction,
and some seem to find marijuana of use in the struggle that follows
the ibogaine, in the circumstances they find themselves in. It would
be great to have results on whether some methods of iboga administration
and aftercare were better than others, but in any case many people
have limited choices.

I’ve been reading a lot on the net about the way Iboga is given in =
Europe and I see a really big difference beetwen that way and the way =
traditional african healers, called Ngangas, do themselves.

I have been interested in this as well. However I have read that alcohol
is a problem in the society in which the Bwiti are found, perhaps even
among members of the cult? I wonder how marijuana use is viewed by
cult members?

A musicotherapist who was in Africa to perform the complete Iboga’s =
initiation has created a pretty interesting website about the music used =
in the ritual,
http://www.musictherapyworld.de/modules/mmmagazine/showarticle.php?articl=
etoshow=3D63&language=3Den

You may want to look into Taketina, a european-originated polyrhythmic
method that may work in a similar direction, tho without drugs.

Home

Bill Ross

From: “GanjaCat” <ganjacat@ganjacat.net>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] After Ibo Advice
Date: October 30, 2003 at 1:52:27 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Most of what you said I applaud, but the snip below I cannot let pass……

—–Original Message—–
From: Martine Docin-Julien [mailto:jardin.dj@free.fr] 
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 3:54 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] After Ibo Advice

, so I really don’t understand how a substance known to create addiction can be of good help ?
I think it would made me feel crazy to take marijuana when there is in fact no more need for that kind of stuff.

DO MORE RESEARCH & leave your dogma at home. Cannabis is NOT an addiction causing substance, that’s why Ibo has no effect on it. Cannabis is a valid and documented medicine full stop. Don’t bring self-righteous prohibitionist propaganda to a list dedicated to getting out the truth of the benefits of one plant substance by slagging off another.

Also, I was informed that the Bwiti have used cannabis in their ibo rituals.

From: “Martine Docin-Julien” <jardin.dj@free.fr>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] After Ibo Advice
Date: October 30, 2003 at 9:54:06 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello, I’m quite surprised that taking marijuana can be a good idea for someone wanting and fighting to get free from addiction ?
Iboga is well known for it’s ability to stop the craving for drugs by the way Ibogaïne in working on the cells sensitive to addiction, so I really don’t understand how a substance known to create addiction can be of good help ?
I think it would made me feel crazy to take marijuana when there is in fact no more need for that kind of stuff.

I’ve been reading a lot on the net about the way Iboga is given in Europe and I see a really big difference beetwen that way and the way traditional african healers, called Ngangas, do themselves.
They are rich of thousand of years of knowledge through their healing tradition with Iboga and know for sure that Iboga allows a very special work on and I’d say in the spirit, opening doors and windows for a new consciousness through the psychic process crossed.
I don’t get the feeling through what I’ve been reading now, that most of the persons to which Iboga is given, benefit from that kind of deep knwoledge due from the people they met ? And some take it alone at home ..

I’ve read feed-back from persons left without understanding of this process, the different phases of symbolic “destruction and rebuilding”, what the Ngangas call first the death and then the birth of the new being.

The process I’ve followed lasted two whole nights; as I’ve already said in my previous message, I’ve followed the process guided by a Nganga and the use of musics and rythms is totally part of the healing tools that the Nganga is using.
A musicotherapist who was in Africa to perform the complete Iboga’s initiation has created a pretty interesting website about the music used in the ritual, and propose pieces that can be downloaded.
Here it is : http://www.musictherapyworld.de/modules/mmmagazine/showarticle.php?articletoshow=63&language=en
I’ve tested the url, it’s working.
He is making research about the effects of that very special kind on music on the brain, mind, spirit.
I think that it’s worthwhile to get informations from the ones who first had to deal with Iboga, and maybe time to welcome what Africans have to bring to western people and culture.
I’ve get the feeling they know quite a lot about psychic life, and Iboga’s journey is a psychic trip, spiritual one too.
Friendly,
Martine
From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] After Ibo Advice
Date: October 30, 2003 at 8:26:14 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jaden

Hi. The “ibo-glow” will cool down in another week or
so. From MY TAKE on it the heaviest is the first
couple weeks and you appear to be on the more
sensitive side (lucky you). By about a month you
should get back to more normal, at least to where it
doesn’t bother you. I agree with the valium (there are
better drugs for sleep BTW), easy on that kind of
stuff but do use it or other medications as needed and
tolerated. Bottom line, it will pass, I don’t know how
to rush it, there isn’t much to make it better, a
little sleeper/herb tea helps. You really don’t have
to “do” anything, sleep or awake, just “BE”,
meditate, lie down in dead mans pose (or any number of
poses) and shut up your mind. It might be a good
opportunity to take the time to learn breathing
exercises… a good way to relax <smile>. I know
someone who loves taking ibo because of the
opportunity he gets for the lack of need for sleep, it
is a matter of perspective, look at it differently.

Brett

— Jaden Shaw <jadensheldon@yahoo.ca> wrote:
Hello People.

I have a couple of questions. I have just recently
done a gram of HCL which has helped me immensely.
But Im on my own here. Canada. I can only do so much
reading on Ibogaine and personal stories from other
people. I need some advice on what to do after.
First of all the no sleep. Valarian root,
mellowtonin,  they arent helping because the
“ibo-glow” has me up for two daze at a time. Then Im
lucky if I get three hours. It has been two weeks
now. Im not used to this. I went to the clinic and
they gave me a script for Valium, or adavan if I
choose. I told them that defeats the purpose of
trying to get off things of the sort. I use Valium
on the street too. They had no other suggestions.
I cant read yet cuz my mind is still on the vibe. I
do try to relax and listen to what my head is saying
but theres only so much until I get frustrated.
Thats just the sleep part too.
The other part is talking to people who know what
Im going through and we all know thats limited.
I need information on “after care”. Links, advice,
anything.
I know I only have a window and I want to make the
very best of it. I dont have triggers yet and my
thoughts are clear. Clear enough to know that I cant
do this alone. So this is new to me.
Some feedback would be very much appreciated.

Jaden

———————————
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: Narcan injections for detox??? American Journal of Addicti…
Date: October 30, 2003 at 8:20:34 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The below snip is from M is for Methadone by Preston Peet- (long Google
cached URL, so cut and paste it to read the whole thing, for those like Brad
who’ve probably not seen this, written, oh, about 3 or 4 years ago now, even
though the date at the top says 2002 for some reason)-

http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:lNrbPuTTovMJ:www.disinfo.com/archive/pages/dossier/id838/pg1/+M+is+for+methadone&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

Promoted by Drs. Marie Nyswynder, and Vincent Dole in the mid-1960s as the
most promising method of treating heroin addiction, MMT began to receive
more attention from the medical community, and gradually limited tests were
begun to gauge MMT’s efficacy in treating hardcore heroin addicts. Reading
through the National Institute of Health’s Consensus Development Statement,
titled “Effective Medical Treatment Of Opiate Addiction”, not much, it
seems, has changed. US scientists and doctors still have a lack of
compassion for their “test subjects” that echoes the Nazi doctors. In the
Diagnosis of Opioid Addiction section, the report states that if an addict
has failed after all tests to convince the doctor he/she is really a heroin
addict, the doctor can obtain further evidence by administering a “Naloxone
(Narcan) challenge test to induce withdrawal symptoms.” This instantly
induces withdrawals, and is what paramedics give overdose victims when
trying to resuscitate them dead on the sidewalk. I’ve seen it given to a
friend, and he was definitely not happy when jerking awake, sick as a dog.
It is sadistic torture giving Naloxone to someone simply, to prove that
they’re are an addict.<
Weird synchronicity, and there are a lot of links both in and after the
essay.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Brad Fisher
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 6:21 PM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Fw: Narcan injections for detox??? American Journal
of Addicti…

I have an idea there would be a lot less researching if we gave the
researchers a taste of what they want to do to others. Giving Opiate
addicted people doses of Naltreaxone or Nalaxone or Narcan is right out of
Hitler’s handbook. I maybe did not spell it correctly but I certainly know
what it does to an addict.
bf

—–Original Message—–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com [mailto:CallieMimosa@aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 1:40 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: Narcan injections for detox??? American Journal
of Addicti…

I’ll third that! Why would they even want to do that?! Doesn’t take a study
to know that it could make someone want to die if they were continually
given Narcan injections! I really don’t see what they are researching for.

From: “GanjaCat” <ganjacat@ganjacat.net>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] After Ibo Advice
Date: October 30, 2003 at 6:02:34 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Jaden,

I’ll freely admit that that I have ‘personal & moral’ reasons for doing so, but based on 25 years personal experience and more significantly on my observations of patients here at Sara’s House I have no problem in recommending the use of cannabis, legal status not withstanding, to alleviate your symptoms.

There are countless references to the medicinal power of this much-victimised plant ‘out there’. I’ll not try to justify my beliefs here. All I am saying is, if you can get safe access to a suitable type of cannabis (you may have to experiment a bit to find the type & method that suits you best, which can be fun in itself!) you will probably find that both your problems, and the anxieties you feel about them, become less of a problem.

One of the reasons that cannabis-based medicines were finally banned in the UK in 1973 was the ‘promise’ by the PharmCos that Valium & Librium could safely replace them. What a lie that turned out to be!

If in doubt, trust that Mother Nature has an answer tucked away somewhere. The Ibo is part of that answer, but as you’re discovering, not the whole of the answer.

Peaceful blessings

“The GanjaCat”

—–Original Message—–
From: Jaden Shaw [mailto:jadensheldon@yahoo.ca] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 8:53 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] After Ibo Advice

Hello People.

I have a couple of questions. I have just recently done a gram of HCL which has helped me immensely. But Im on my own here. Canada. I can only do so much reading on Ibogaine and personal stories from other people. I need some advice on what to do after.
First of all the no sleep. Valarian root, mellowtonin,  they arent helping because the “ibo-glow” has me up for two daze at a time. Then Im lucky if I get three hours. It has been two weeks now. Im not used to this. I went to the clinic and they gave me a script for Valium, or adavan if I choose. I told them that defeats the purpose of trying to get off things of the sort. I use Valium on the street too. They had no other suggestions.
I cant read yet cuz my mind is still on the vibe. I do try to relax and listen to what my head is saying but theres only so much until I get frustrated.
Thats just the sleep part too.
The other part is talking to people who know what Im going through and we all know thats limited.
I need information on “after care”. Links, advice, anything.
I know I only have a window and I want to make the very best of it. I dont have triggers yet and my thoughts are clear. Clear enough to know that I cant do this alone. So this is new to me.
Some feedback would be very much appreciated.

Jaden

Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals

From: “Martine Docin-Julien” <jardin.dj@free.fr>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] fish
Date: October 30, 2003 at 4:19:21 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello, I appreciate it too, I find it so tender and sensitive and it reminds me of a vision I’ve got with Iboga recently, many tiny white fishes together 😉
Thanks for sharing your own vision !
Martine
—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 10:34 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] fish

Love the fish picture! The colors are beautiful.
I have two pet fish. They are the Beta fighting fish. One is red (rusty) and one is blue (Simon Peter). They have personalities and recognize me when I come to their bowls. No joke!
Peace, Callie

From: “Brad Fisher” <brad.fisher@guaranty.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Fw: Narcan injections for detox??? American Journal of Addicti…
Date: October 29, 2003 at 6:21:24 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I have an idea there would be a lot less researching if we gave the researchers a taste of what they want to do to others. Giving Opiate addicted people doses of Naltreaxone or Nalaxone or Narcan is right out of Hitler’s handbook. I maybe did not spell it correctly but I certainly know what it does to an addict.
bf

—–Original Message—–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com [mailto:CallieMimosa@aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 1:40 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: Narcan injections for detox??? American Journal of Addicti…

I’ll third that! Why would they even want to do that?! Doesn’t take a study to know that it could make someone want to die if they were continually given Narcan injections! I really don’t see what they are researching for.

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: Narcan injections for detox??? American Journal of Addicti…
Date: October 29, 2003 at 4:39:30 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’ll third that! Why would they even want to do that?! Doesn’t take a study to know that it could make someone want to die if they were continually given Narcan injections! I really don’t see what they are researching for.

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] fish
Date: October 29, 2003 at 4:34:57 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Love the fish picture! The colors are beautiful.
I have two pet fish. They are the Beta fighting fish. One is red (rusty) and one is blue (Simon Peter). They have personalities and recognize me when I come to their bowls. No joke!
Peace, Callie

From: “Martine Docin-Julien” <jardin.dj@free.fr>
Subject: [ibogaine] After Ibogaine For Jaden
Date: October 29, 2003 at 4:31:14 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello Jaden, I don’t know what you mean with ” a gram of HCL “, is it simply Ibogaine ?
If it’s what you mean, I think I can understand your need of informations and advices cause I have done what is called here in France “Healing session  with Ibogaine “, for self-development purpose, a week ago, and right now, I’ve more questions than answers and I feel some frustration too.

About your lack of sleep, I’ve heard that it is very normal for most of the people who take Iboga, and it may last for a couple of weeks. I don’t live the same but I have dreams that awake me in the night.

The mind or spirit is working much more than usual, and on new ways. Less energy is needed for the sleep; do you feel tired or are you simply surprised to need less hours of rest right now ?

Do you meet a psychotherapist to whom you’ve explained your work with Ibogaïne ? It’s very important to share with a professionnel of help all the ” stuff ” that your are discovering, to understand the healing process that is on and to have the opportunity to listen and to understand what your deep self is saying to you, probably through pictures, rememberings, symbols, visions and so on. Don’t miss this opportunity 😉

Have you begun to write or to draw or anything else to get in touch with what you ” see ” or have seen during the healing trip, when you’ve taken Iboga ?
I’ve writen lost of notes on post-it when I was back home and I noticed with  great surprise that the fact of writing things did lighten some of them, I could suddendly understand or get new understanding about a vision I had, about people I’ve met during those visions.

I really hope you’ll made good use of your window, you have opened it, enjoy it !! The man giving the opportunity to work with Iboga here in France, is used to help addicts who want to get free, and really he says that the work after has to be done with a psychotherapist, it’s a deep work, a mighty one and I’m sure that you desserve the best in your desire to discover what life is now that you’ve get rid of the bad stuffs.

About all that is running in your head, have you been told that you can get in touch with the pictures by asking questions to the picture itself or to a person present in it, or to a symbol, a thing present too in what you see ?
If you do so, you’ll probably see the picture getting through transformations till it get ” empty ” I mean I had the feeling my look ” obliged” the picture to open, it get more simple, informations were living the vision till I had the feeling the process presented by the picture was over, and then a new picture came and I did the same job, either asked ” Who are you ” or look with precision to something that was in some way attracting my interest, curiosity, and both ways did worked.
I understood that in so doing, the informations get understood by me, “washed” in some way and something new could arrive.

Have you done your healing process with an europeen or with an african healer, formed to that special way for healing both mind and spirit ?
I’ve done the process with a traditionnal healer from Gabon, and I think it’s important to get the mind open to the unknown, to dare see what you ” see” and to dare feel what you feel and think what you think and understand what you understand as long as the process is on, cause this special journey is yours, the one you’re making in and with your own spirit, your own self.

That’s all I wanted to share with you, I hope you’ll do the right job for your self, take good care !

Friendly,
Martine

From: Jaden Shaw <jadensheldon@yahoo.ca>
Subject: [ibogaine] After Ibo Advice
Date: October 29, 2003 at 2:53:29 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello People.

I have a couple of questions. I have just recently done a gram of HCL which has helped me immensely. But Im on my own here. Canada. I can only do so much reading on Ibogaine and personal stories from other people. I need some advice on what to do after.
First of all the no sleep. Valarian root, mellowtonin,  they arent helping because the “ibo-glow” has me up for two daze at a time. Then Im lucky if I get three hours. It has been two weeks now. Im not used to this. I went to the clinic and they gave me a script for Valium, or adavan if I choose. I told them that defeats the purpose of trying to get off things of the sort. I use Valium on the street too. They had no other suggestions.
I cant read yet cuz my mind is still on the vibe. I do try to relax and listen to what my head is saying but theres only so much until I get frustrated.
Thats just the sleep part too.
The other part is talking to people who know what Im going through and we all know thats limited.
I need information on “after care”. Links, advice, anything.
I know I only have a window and I want to make the very best of it. I dont have triggers yet and my thoughts are clear. Clear enough to know that I cant do this alone. So this is new to me.
Some feedback would be very much appreciated.

Jaden

Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: Narcan injections for detox??? American Journal of Addiction.
Date: October 28, 2003 at 10:15:44 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’ll second this opinion Brad.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Brad Fisher” <brad.fisher@guaranty.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 8:10 PM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Fw: Narcan injections for detox??? American Journal
of Addiction.

I’d like to watch these experts inject themselves with Naloxone when
habituated to opiates.
bf

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 3:09 PM
To: drugwar@mindvox.com; ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Fw: Narcan injections for detox??? American Journal of
Addiction.

Seems a bit barbaric to me.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Andrew Byrne” <ajbyrne@ozemail.com.au>
To: “Andrew Byrne” <ajbyrne@ozemail.com.au>
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 4:56 PM
Subject: Narcan injections for detox??? American Journal of Addiction.

The Effectiveness of Combined Naloxone/Lofexidine in Opiate
Detoxification: Results from a Double-blind Randomized and
Placebo-controlled Trial. Beswick T, Best D, Bearn J, Gossop M, Rees S,
Strang J. American Journal of Addiction (2003) 12;4:295-305

Dear Colleagues,

This intriguing trial from a London based group gave frequent injections
of naloxone to addicts in a detoxification ward.

The authors state that methadone ‘has been the standard treatment for
in-patient opioid detoxification’. This may be the case in England but
not necessarily elsewhere. There seems to be an assumption that
lofexidine (and/or clonidine) are safe and effective in outcomes of
opioid withdrawal episodes. Although there are apparently fewer
hypotensive side effects with lofexidine (‘Brit-Lofex), a recent study
from England, a generation of experience and the absence of a reported
black market would seem to cast some doubt on their efficacy in
successful heroin withdrawals. Next comes the rather controversial and
little-researched use of naloxone in drug withdrawal. These researchers
gave most subjects over 30 hypodermic injections, a behaviour which most
of us are actively trying to discourage.

After finding that there were no significant differences in overall
outcomes in those randomised to receive the antagonist naloxone, the
authors come to the surprising conclusion that more research is needed
on this treatment modality for those trying to quit heroin. With the
increasing use of buprenorphine for detoxification, it would seem almost
outlandish to support the use of injectable, short acting antagonists
like naloxone.

About half of the 33 references are from the authors themselves which
may indicate their pre-eminence in the field of opioid detoxification.

Comments by Andrew Byrne ..

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dr Andrew Byrne,
Medical Practitioner, Drug and Alcohol,
75 Redfern Street, Redfern,
New South Wales, 2016, Australia
Email – ajbyrneATozemail.com.au
Tel (61 – 2) 9319 5524 Fax 9318 0631
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My grandfather Harry Gracie’s letters from 1924 trip to Mayo Clinic:
http://bpresent.com/harry/code/mayo.htm

From: “Brad Fisher” <brad.fisher@guaranty.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Fw: Narcan injections for detox??? American Journal of Addiction.
Date: October 28, 2003 at 8:10:46 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’d like to watch these experts inject themselves with Naloxone when
habituated to opiates.
bf

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 3:09 PM
To: drugwar@mindvox.com; ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Fw: Narcan injections for detox??? American Journal of
Addiction.

Seems a bit barbaric to me.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Andrew Byrne” <ajbyrne@ozemail.com.au>
To: “Andrew Byrne” <ajbyrne@ozemail.com.au>
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 4:56 PM
Subject: Narcan injections for detox??? American Journal of Addiction.

The Effectiveness of Combined Naloxone/Lofexidine in Opiate
Detoxification: Results from a Double-blind Randomized and
Placebo-controlled Trial. Beswick T, Best D, Bearn J, Gossop M, Rees S,
Strang J. American Journal of Addiction (2003) 12;4:295-305

Dear Colleagues,

This intriguing trial from a London based group gave frequent injections
of naloxone to addicts in a detoxification ward.

The authors state that methadone ‘has been the standard treatment for
in-patient opioid detoxification’. This may be the case in England but
not necessarily elsewhere. There seems to be an assumption that
lofexidine (and/or clonidine) are safe and effective in outcomes of
opioid withdrawal episodes. Although there are apparently fewer
hypotensive side effects with lofexidine (‘Brit-Lofex), a recent study
from England, a generation of experience and the absence of a reported
black market would seem to cast some doubt on their efficacy in
successful heroin withdrawals. Next comes the rather controversial and
little-researched use of naloxone in drug withdrawal. These researchers
gave most subjects over 30 hypodermic injections, a behaviour which most
of us are actively trying to discourage.

After finding that there were no significant differences in overall
outcomes in those randomised to receive the antagonist naloxone, the
authors come to the surprising conclusion that more research is needed
on this treatment modality for those trying to quit heroin. With the
increasing use of buprenorphine for detoxification, it would seem almost
outlandish to support the use of injectable, short acting antagonists
like naloxone.

About half of the 33 references are from the authors themselves which
may indicate their pre-eminence in the field of opioid detoxification.

Comments by Andrew Byrne ..

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dr Andrew Byrne,
Medical Practitioner, Drug and Alcohol,
75 Redfern Street, Redfern,
New South Wales, 2016, Australia
Email – ajbyrneATozemail.com.au
Tel (61 – 2) 9319 5524 Fax 9318 0631
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My grandfather Harry Gracie’s letters from 1924 trip to Mayo Clinic:
http://bpresent.com/harry/code/mayo.htm

From: “leesmithjr” <leesmithjr@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] fish
Date: October 28, 2003 at 6:18:21 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 03:27:54
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] fish

http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1818810&size=lg

.

____________________________________________________
IncrediMail – Email has finally evolved – Click Here

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fw: Narcan injections for detox??? American Journal of Addiction.
Date: October 28, 2003 at 6:08:38 PM EST
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>, <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Seems a bit barbaric to me.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Andrew Byrne” <ajbyrne@ozemail.com.au>
To: “Andrew Byrne” <ajbyrne@ozemail.com.au>
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 4:56 PM
Subject: Narcan injections for detox??? American Journal of Addiction.

The Effectiveness of Combined Naloxone/Lofexidine in Opiate
Detoxification: Results from a Double-blind Randomized and
Placebo-controlled Trial. Beswick T, Best D, Bearn J, Gossop M, Rees S,
Strang J. American Journal of Addiction (2003) 12;4:295-305

Dear Colleagues,

This intriguing trial from a London based group gave frequent injections
of naloxone to addicts in a detoxification ward.

The authors state that methadone ‘has been the standard treatment for
in-patient opioid detoxification’. This may be the case in England but
not necessarily elsewhere. There seems to be an assumption that
lofexidine (and/or clonidine) are safe and effective in outcomes of
opioid withdrawal episodes. Although there are apparently fewer
hypotensive side effects with lofexidine (‘Brit-Lofex), a recent study
from England, a generation of experience and the absence of a reported
black market would seem to cast some doubt on their efficacy in
successful heroin withdrawals. Next comes the rather controversial and
little-researched use of naloxone in drug withdrawal. These researchers
gave most subjects over 30 hypodermic injections, a behaviour which most
of us are actively trying to discourage.

After finding that there were no significant differences in overall
outcomes in those randomised to receive the antagonist naloxone, the
authors come to the surprising conclusion that more research is needed
on this treatment modality for those trying to quit heroin. With the
increasing use of buprenorphine for detoxification, it would seem almost
outlandish to support the use of injectable, short acting antagonists
like naloxone.

About half of the 33 references are from the authors themselves which
may indicate their pre-eminence in the field of opioid detoxification.

Comments by Andrew Byrne ..

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dr Andrew Byrne,
Medical Practitioner, Drug and Alcohol,
75 Redfern Street, Redfern,
New South Wales, 2016, Australia
Email – ajbyrneATozemail.com.au
Tel (61 – 2) 9319 5524 Fax 9318 0631
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My grandfather Harry Gracie’s letters from 1924 trip to Mayo Clinic:
http://bpresent.com/harry/code/mayo.htm

From: Bill Ross <ross@cgl.ucsf.edu>
Subject: [ibogaine] fish
Date: October 28, 2003 at 3:27:49 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1818810&size=lg

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] farting dog sparks US terror alert
Date: October 27, 2003 at 7:28:26 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/28/33614.html

Osama bin Laden will doubtless be absolutely gutted to learn that any
plan he may have had to destroy a US airliner using a life-size novelty
mechanical farting terrier is doomed to failure.

Yup, the ever-vigilant airport security officials in Norfolk, Virginia,
responded instantly when Brit passenger Dave Rogerson’s flatulent
fido’s outgassing triggered a security device, the BBC reports.

It appears that the “wind-breaking mechanism registered as a high
explosive on sensitive monitoring equipment”, resulting in armed Feds
swooping on Mr Rogerson.

Rogerson is reported as saying: “There’s no humour at American
check-ins and for about 20 minutes I was quite scared. They were very
jumpy and convinced there was something explosive in the dog.”

Happily, tests soon revealed that the malodorous mutt posed no threat
to national security, and was returned to its owner. Mr Rogerson has
now renamed the animal “Norfolk” in honour of the airport and its
contribution to the War on Terror. Ū

__________________________________
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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] marc emery forbes cover story
Date: October 27, 2003 at 7:30:18 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/3130.html

The Canadian marijuana industry, Marc Emery, and Advanced Nutrients are
featured in Forbes magazine’s November 1st edition.

The prestigious publication has a pot leaf on its cover and thorough
coverage of the Canadian marijuana industry inside.

The article was written by Forbes journalist Quentin Hardy, who also
wrote an article about Emery that was published on the front page of
the Wall Street Journal (WSJ) in 1995. The WSJ article credited Emery
with creating the entire retail marijuana seed industry, and lauded him
for being a philanthropist.

In the Forbes article, Hardy reports Emery’s sales have increased from
100,000 sold per year to 350,000 sold per year since Emery founded his
seed business in 1994, even though a flood of imitators have swept in
to capitalize on what he started.

It’s doubtful that Hardy could have written his article without Emery’s
assistance. Emery provided Hardy with insider access to all aspects of
the pot world, from smuggling to massive commercial grow houses.

Hardy spent weeks interviewing Emery’s pot work connections, while
photographers took pictures of buds, pot entrepreneurs, and grow rooms.

One of the companies Emery brought Hardy to see was Advanced Nutrients,
a Vancouver-area marijuana nutrients company that is creating
pioneering products that are revolutionizing the way marijuana is
grown.

The company gets broad coverage in Hardy’s article, which notes that
Advanced Nutrients’ high-quality products are increasingly available
worldwide.

“When Marc brought Mr. Hardy to our manufacturing facility, we were
thrilled,” said Mike Straumietis, an Advanced Nutrients co-founder. “If
it hadn’t been for Marc, we would not be in Forbes.”

The Forbes article is another example of major media coverage Emery has
received this year. The Summer of Legalization tour garnered much
reporting. Emery’s Iboga Therapy House is going to be featured in a
Rolling Stone article due out in the next month. Emery has been in more
than a hundred newspaper and magazine articles this year, and has also
been featured in dozens of electronic media interviews and reports
about the cross-country legalization tour, the BC Marijuana Party, and
other cannabis issues.

http://www.forbes.com/forbes/

.:vector:.

__________________________________
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Exclusive Video Premiere – Britney Spears
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From: David G Scott <reeldeathfilms@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [digital@phantom.com: [ibogaine] [digital@phantom.com: Re: Ibogaine film]]
Date: October 27, 2003 at 12:04:54 PM EST
To: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>

PS Yes the ibo got me off the Green God but I’m still seeing in two dimensions. When will that be fixed??
david

David Graham Scott
Basement Flat
203 Wilton Street
Glasgow G20 6DF
Tel; 0141 945 1899
Mob; 07919 918 358

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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] long mail
Date: October 26, 2003 at 1:58:00 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

 

Point. People who talk about killing themselves? Dont doubt that that’s exactly what theyre going to do. That old thing is a myth. I was raised in the system and on the streets. I have learned different. Cry for help? Maybe in some cases. But not all. And who wants to be wrong about 
this kind of thing.

It is a good point; it may be an old myth for you but not for me. Maybe for a street heroin user’s it doesn’t count but for Alcoholics it does.

I was told by people who have almost died killing themselves, that when they were doing it they were in a psychotic state of mind,
Out of control. They were full of negetive vibe and couldn’t control the explossion of anger and resentment that they felt.

A friend who is in bed all day waiting for the day to come is thinking about it talking about it but
Not doing it, not even when suffering from cancer pain.
The other person, who is waiting for a liver transplant, also waiting for his day in pain talking about killing himself,.now waiting for the moment  to come by itself.

I know closly two people who basically by miracle didn’t die after trying to take their life. They are both exceptional good people
Who had a lot of shit to deal with, always got the blame for everything, been abandoned by their family and loved one.

So probably the truth is in between and it is hard to make 100% correct research to find that out. Million of people can have million of reasons to live or die or born again.

From: Jaden Shaw <jadensheldon@yahoo.ca>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] [digital@phantom.com: Re: Ibogaine film]
Date: October 26, 2003 at 2:39:38 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jaden Shaw <jadensheldon@yahoo.ca> wrote:
I guess its my time to pipe up. I have been reading the list and doing further research on Ibogaine for over a year now. I have read all of your bio’s and I am taken away by the difference you all are making. It inspires me.
Just over a year ago I was approached by Marc to be the first treated at the Iboga Therapy House on the Sunshine Coast. Im 26 years old now and when I first met Marc I was wired with all the perks. Absesses, psycosis, tracks I couldnt hide and a talent for making good money. I started using when I met my birth Mother. She introduced me, I took it from there.
I was the most skeptical but I had nothing to loose so I let Marc take me under his wing for a time. I took the Ibo and came to without any signs of being dope sick. That was it. So obviously since that day my priorities changed. I wanted to work. I wanted to help to treat people. Seven years of IV use, I had my street creds, and I felt I had something to offer. And I spent a lot of time at the ITH. During that time I witnessed people kick copious mucho mills of methadone within a five day week, which after watching people suffer in Detoxes over again forced my mind outside the box. I have strong faith in Ibogaine.
Off probation for the first time since I was 14, off welfare and able to follow my dream of going to film school. I credit Marc for giving me the moral support I never had from being raised in the system.
Only I went back to the streets. Real life was too intimidating. Each time I ended up back at home Marc offered support and I learned the meaning of unconditional. That type of thing really throws an addict off.
Thats a small history.
The reason I felt I needed to pipe up in the first place was because of the conversation with Sara and David.
This line is what got me. “People who talk about “killing Myself” are cynical, they just talk they
don’t do it.
People who do it don’t talk about it.”
And the article
“Documentary Maker May Film His Own Death”.

So heres a quick no bullshit recap of my last three weeks. I started getting depressed through no outside influeces, just my twisted mind. I formulated a plan, only I needed some poeple to help me cary it out. So I convinced two of my film school buddies to come to the Inner City and film my death. Its a tough hood and they only lasted a day. I stayed. I told poeple. I was convinced it was a good idea. I wanted people to see that a normal good looking kid who has everything going for him can switch on himself. My dreams became last on my priority list and death became the first.
My little brother and I watched our Mother overdose and die in front of us. I wanted to have people see me do it so they could learn. But I was not in my right head obviously. I watched my Mom die and I damn sure didnt learn a thing from it.
But the point is I went through with the suicide. And I was comfortable with it. The first time I overdosed was four daze later. I dropped at the new Safe Injection Site in Vancouver. I came to angrier that I have ever been in the hospita.  My fingers were gnarled and It felt like I had swallowed a firecracker and it blew up hitting every one of my organs. On top of that I had to find a shower and a few hundred more dollars to try again. Two days later the police peeled me off the sidewalk. By that time I was so retarted and delirious that I couldnt pass for normal anymore. Makes making money difficult. Thanksgiving I was found and an intervention was pulled. I dont remember how I got back here. When I woke up from sleeping I of course was angry. I looked at my body and I was halfway to death. Why would they pull me out when I was so close?
Once again Marc supplied me with some Iboga. One gram of HCL which I had never taken before. I didnt want to take it. The shit scares me and this was my fourth experience (selfish I know). Only I did take it and I had the people I live with, versed in Iboga who had already set things up for me.
The HCL took less time to hit me than the Indra, which is what I have taken every other time. What can you say when you come out the other end of Iboga hey guys? How do you even describle it to people who just dont have the experience. I tell them to read up and just take things at face value. HCL I didnt get as sick as I have the other times. Just one five minute session. The hallucinations both open eyed and closed where way more intense, more frequent and more vivid. I was able to make out characteristics of peoples faces who werent there. With my eyes closed they were comming at a faster pace but I was understanding at a faster pace. There were also some long ones which I have never had. I had to recap my last three weeks with a sane head. It scared me watching what I was doing to myself. But that strange non fear you get with Ibogaine. Sometimes when you understand something it doesnt make it any less shocking. Anyways 9 hours later I was coherent and glad to be home.
Try to explain that. I cant. The nor ibo is craziness. Im still vibin’ hard after seven days. 16 hours sleep in six days. My body is still not healed. Dropping twice does that to you. My mind is way ahead of my body and that is frustrating.
Off topic. When you guys lash each other it makes me smile. Because I know when you are writing it youre smiling too. Yeah theres a lot of thisthat going on but thats what keeps the spirit of the list alive. We cant be all stern and shit and just talk about one thing. Were not made like that. Personalities get through on this list. We have amazing personalities, were the fortunate open minority. Lets keep that.

Sara Glatt <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:

Hi David and welcome to the list.

This is the only part of my message I’m sure about 😉
I don’t understand why people are talking about organ
transplants, I understand Patrick was being a d*ckhead
and he was joking but isn’t it a little ghoulish to
start talking about taking some person’s liver who is
still alive?

Carla,

Isn’t it ghoulish to talk about “killing myself with Ibogaine”?
It is a life saving substance.

A person who talks like that is not considering the consequences,

Donation of an organ is a decision that people can make make only when
they are alive.
People who talk about “killing Myself” are cynical, they just talk they
don’t do it.
People who do it don’t talk about it.

Sorry I wasnt finished. Ibo glow has me type happy. For sleep I smoked
some pot. Thank earth for it too because my body really needed that
sleep. I was like a beggar on the corner. Spare some REM sleep please?
Anyways HCL. I had something extreme happen to my heart a few hours
into
it. I was in the bed and my heart just started beating
……………..
that fast. It didnt hurt but Ibo is a veteran painkiller I hear. But it
was my heart man and theres not a thing I could do about it. My sitter
checked my blood pressure and she didnt believe it so she checked
again. I lasted about fifteen seconds and it was scary. After it slowed
down
it was litterally hitting agains my ribs and I had no idea our hearts
were that powerfull. So I dont know what happened but from what I have
read I guess I do. So thats a warning I suppose. Ten daze in the Inner
city. About 4 thousand dollars and two overdoses. I ate three times in
those ten daze. I think we need a certain amount of health before we
take
the Ibogiane. Agree or not? Please explain.
How do I feel now? I feel amazing of course. I have no cravings except
a little when I write about it. But I can purposely think of it just to
test and I dont get the physical craving, not a chill in sight. Im
motivated. Im confused. It returned me to my right mind and now Im
embarassed, pissed right off at messing with these other people, I feel
far
from solid. But I think the fact that I cant even fathom how I could do
that now is a good thing. The Ibo has given me the strength and lack of
fear to start doing something about this whole cycle now. Call it a
window or whatever. But Im using it to my best. But thats where I could
really use some serious help, thought and suggestions from you all.
AFTER
CARE. Any links?  I got shunned at NA for obvious reasons. People dont
understand Ibo. Whats the most common questions. Is it like acid man?
Shrooms? Payote? They need to compare it to something. I tell them its
not fun. And its not. Slams me in awe but I have a fearful respect for
it.
I mean who wants to be confronted with truth all the time right?

Point. People who talk about killing themselves? Dont doubt that thats
exactly what theyre going to do. That old thing is a myth. I was raised
in the system and on the streets. I have learned different. Cry for
help? Maybe in some cases. But not all. And who wants to be wrong about
this kind of thing.

And David. Man I think what youre doing is top notch man. I respect
those actions. Good on ya.

One last thing. Thank you all for the knowlege. I saw a huge
difference between Indra and HCL. I also learned more. And the only
thing Im
jonesing for is nature. Ibo has some really good side effects.
Thanx for hearing all that.
Jaden

 

Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals
Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] [digital@phantom.com: Re: Ibogaine film]
Date: October 26, 2003 at 11:26:09 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks you Nick for giving clarity.

From: Jaden Shaw <jadensheldon@yahoo.ca>
Subject: [ibogaine] long mail
Date: October 26, 2003 at 2:01:28 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sorry I wasnt finished. Ibo glow has me type happy. For sleep I smoked
some pot. Thank earth for it too because my body really needed that
sleep. I was like a beggar on the corner. Spare some REM sleep please?
Anyways HCL. I had something extreme happen to my heart a few hours
into
it. I was in the bed and my heart just started beating
……………..
that fast. It didnt hurt but Ibo is a veteran painkiller I hear. But it
was my heart man and theres not a thing I could do about it. My sitter
checked my blood pressure and she didnt believe it so she checked
again. I lasted about fifteen seconds and it was scary. After it slowed
down
it was litterally hitting agains my ribs and I had no idea our hearts
were that powerfull. So I dont know what happened but from what I have
read I guess I do. So thats a warning I suppose. Ten daze in the Inner
city. About 4 thousand dollars and two overdoses. I ate three times in
those ten daze. I think we need a certain amount of health before we
take
the Ibogiane. Agree or not? Please explain.
How do I feel now? I feel amazing of course. I have no cravings except
a little when I write about it. But I can purposely think of it just to
test and I dont get the physical craving, not a chill in sight. Im
motivated. Im confused. It returned me to my right mind and now Im
embarassed, pissed right off at messing with these other people, I feel
far
from solid. But I think the fact that I cant even fathom how I could do
that now is a good thing. The Ibo has given me the strength and lack of
fear to start doing something about this whole cycle now. Call it a
window or whatever. But Im using it to my best. But thats where I could
really use some serious help, thought and suggestions from you all.
AFTER
CARE. Any links?  I got shunned at NA for obvious reasons. People dont
understand Ibo. Whats the most common questions. Is it like acid man?
Shrooms? Payote? They need to compare it to something. I tell them its
not fun. And its not. Slams me in awe but I have a fearful respect for
it.
I mean who wants to be confronted with truth all the time right?

Point. People who talk about killing themselves? Dont doubt that thats
exactly what theyre going to do. That old thing is a myth. I was raised
in the system and on the streets. I have learned different. Cry for
help? Maybe in some cases. But not all. And who wants to be wrong about
this kind of thing.

And David. Man I think what youre doing is top notch man. I respect
those actions. Good on ya.

One last thing. Thank you all for the knowlege. I saw a huge
difference between Indra and HCL. I also learned more. And the only
thing Im
jonesing for is nature. Ibo has some really good side effects.
Thanx for hearing all that.
Jaden

 

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From: Jaden Shaw <jadensheldon@yahoo.ca>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] [digital@phantom.com: Re: Ibogaine film]
Date: October 26, 2003 at 1:15:35 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I guess its my time to pipe up. I have been reading the list and doing further research on Ibogaine for over a year now. I have read all of your bio’s and I am taken away by the difference you all are making. It inspires me.
Just over a year ago I was approached by Marc to be the first treated at the Iboga Therapy House on the Sunshine Coast. Im 26 years old now and when I first met Marc I was wired with all the perks. Absesses, psycosis, tracks I couldnt hide and a talent for making good money. I started using when I met my birth Mother. She introduced me, I took it from there.
I was the most skeptical but I had nothing to loose so I let Marc take me under his wing for a time. I took the Ibo and came to without any signs of being dope sick. That was it. So obviously since that day my priorities changed. I wanted to work. I wanted to help to treat people. Seven years of IV use, I had my street creds, and I felt I had something to offer. And I spent a lot of time at the ITH. During that time I witnessed people kick copious mucho mills of methadone within a five day week, which after watching people suffer in Detoxes over again forced my mind outside the box. I have strong faith in Ibogaine.
Off probation for the first time since I was 14, off welfare and able to follow my dream of going to film school. I credit Marc for giving me the moral support I never had from being raised in the system.
Only I went back to the streets. Real life was too intimidating. Each time I ended up back at home Marc offered support and I learned the meaning of unconditional. That type of thing really throws an addict off.
Thats a small history.
The reason I felt I needed to pipe up in the first place was because of the conversation with Sara and David.
This line is what got me. “People who talk about “killing Myself” are cynical, they just talk they
don’t do it.
People who do it don’t talk about it.”
And the article
“Documentary Maker May Film His Own Death”.

So heres a quick no bullshit recap of my last three weeks. I started getting depressed through no outside influeces, just my twisted mind. I formulated a plan, only I needed some poeple to help me cary it out. So I convinced two of my film school buddies to come to the Inner City and film my death. Its a tough hood and they only lasted a day. I stayed. I told poeple. I was convinced it was a good idea. I wanted people to see that a normal good looking kid who has everything going for him can switch on himself. My dreams became last on my priority list and death became the first.
My little brother and I watched our Mother overdose and die in front of us. I wanted to have people see me do it so they could learn. But I was not in my right head obviously. I watched my Mom die and I damn sure didnt learn a thing from it.
But the point is I went through with the suicide. And I was comfortable with it. The first time I overdosed was four daze later. I dropped at the new Safe Injection Site in Vancouver. I came to angrier that I have ever been in the hospita.  My fingers were gnarled and It felt like I had swallowed a firecracker and it blew up hitting every one of my organs. On top of that I had to find a shower and a few hundred more dollars to try again. Two days later the police peeled me off the sidewalk. By that time I was so retarted and delirious that I couldnt pass for normal anymore. Makes making money difficult. Thanksgiving I was found and an intervention was pulled. I dont remember how I got back here. When I woke up from sleeping I of course was angry. I looked at my body and I was halfway to death. Why would they pull me out when I was so close?
Once again Marc supplied me with some Iboga. One gram of HCL which I had never taken before. I didnt want to take it. The shit scares me and this was my fourth experience (selfish I know). Only I did take it and I had the people I live with, versed in Iboga who had already set things up for me.
The HCL took less time to hit me than the Indra, which is what I have taken every other time. What can you say when you come out the other end of Iboga hey guys? How do you even describle it to people who just dont have the experience. I tell them to read up and just take things at face value. HCL I didnt get as sick as I have the other times. Just one five minute session. The hallucinations both open eyed and closed where way more intense, more frequent and more vivid. I was able to make out characteristics of peoples faces who werent there. With my eyes closed they were comming at a faster pace but I was understanding at a faster pace. There were also some long ones which I have never had. I had to recap my last three weeks with a sane head. It scared me watching what I was doing to myself. But that strange non fear you get with Ibogaine. Sometimes when you understand something it doesnt make it any less shocking. Anyways 9 hours later I was coherent and glad to be home.
Try to explain that. I cant. The nor ibo is craziness. Im still vibin’ hard after seven days. 16 hours sleep in six days. My body is still not healed. Dropping twice does that to you. My mind is way ahead of my body and that is frustrating.
Off topic. When you guys lash each other it makes me smile. Because I know when you are writing it youre smiling too. Yeah theres a lot of thisthat going on but thats what keeps the spirit of the list alive. We cant be all stern and shit and just talk about one thing. Were not made like that. Personalities get through on this list. We have amazing personalities, were the fortunate open minority. Lets keep that.

Sara Glatt <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:

Hi David and welcome to the list.

This is the only part of my message I’m sure about 😉
I don’t understand why people are talking about organ
transplants, I understand Patrick was being a d*ckhead
and he was joking but isn’t it a little ghoulish to
start talking about taking some person’s liver who is
still alive?

Carla,

Isn’t it ghoulish to talk about “killing myself with Ibogaine”?
It is a life saving substance.

A person who talks like that is not considering the consequences,

Donation of an organ is a decision that people can make make only when
they are alive.
People who talk about “killing Myself” are cynical, they just talk they
don’t do it.
People who do it don’t talk about it.

 

Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals

From: Nick Sandberg <nicks22@onetel.net.uk>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] [digital@phantom.com: Re: Ibogaine film]
Date: October 25, 2003 at 4:47:42 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—- Original message —-
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 13:34:49 +0200
From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] [digital@phantom.com: Re: Ibogaine
film]
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>

Hey, I know someone who is on the waiting list for a liver
tranceplant,I
ALSO KNOW FEW PEOPLE WHO ARE MISSING A WORKING HEART.

By the way this is not 100% correct,” Last year, a 35-year-
old woman
died after taking 500mg of the drug during an informal
ibogaine session
in Germany.  In 2001, an inquest in London into the case of
JW, a
40-year-old heroin addict, ruled that the man had died
principally from
a fatal reaction to the drug.”

The lady died because she had a heart disease, Ibogaine
wasn’t proven to
be the cause for death.But probably her excitement in
combination with
her heart condition and the Ibogain in the first few hours
when it is
exciting.
The 40 years old heroin addict died 40 hours after consuming
the Iboga,
A fatal reaction to the drug would have been much earlier
then 40 hours
later. He died sitting on the toilet with internal bleed in
his stomach
that’s very common, happened many time to people who are
weaken and are
constipated. Remember Elvis? He too died sitting on the
toilet.
Heroin addicts are often constipated, it can become
chronical.

Sara

Hi Sara,

Just for the record, J was ruled by the coroner to have died
from asphyxiation on vomit whilst using the bathroom, some 38
hours after consuming a large dose of iboga extract and
shortly after eating his first food since the treatment. The
ambulance driver said at the time that he thought it was a
stomach burst but this wasn’t found by the inquest.

Death was thus ruled as a “fatal reaction to iboga extract.”
A good defence lawyer would have “got iboga off” no doubt,
but we didn’t have funds to provide for such a guy. There
wasn’t so much real evidence I could see that iboga
consumption could truly have been put down as primary cause
of death.

all the best and love

Nick

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] [digital@phantom.com: Re: Ibogaine film]
Date: October 25, 2003 at 12:41:47 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi David and welcome to the list.

This is the only part of my message I’m sure about 😉
I don’t understand why people are talking about organ
transplants, I understand Patrick was being a d*ckhead
and he was joking but isn’t it a little ghoulish to
start talking about taking some person’s liver who is
still alive?

Carla,

Isn’t it ghoulish to talk about “killing myself with Ibogaine”?
It is a life saving substance.

A person who talks like that is not considering the consequences,

Donation of an organ is a decision that people can make make only when
they are alive.
People who talk about “killing Myself” are cynical, they just talk they
don’t do it.
People who do it don’t talk about it.

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] New to list
Date: October 24, 2003 at 11:00:04 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 10/25/03 1:44:06 AM, thomaspi@worldnet.att.net writes:

Hi everyone,  I have just recently be learning about ibogaine.  I live
in Kansas (doda land) I would like to find out more info and/or resources
closer to my location.  Thanks, Gary

INFO = http://www.ibogaine.org , http://www.ibogaine.co.uk

Google.com search for ibogaine and questions asked on this list and the
ibogaine research page and the ibogatherapyhouse.org page , etc, etc,

Howard

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] [digital@phantom.com: Re: Ibogaine film]
Date: October 24, 2003 at 9:24:15 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I understand Patrick was being a d*ckhead
and he was joking but isn’t it a little ghoulish to
start talking about taking some person’s liver who is
still alive? <

Ever see Monty Python’s MEaning of Life? One of the4 most grusome but
hilarious scenes is when they come to the house door to collect a liver
doner’s liver but h e’s not dead yet which doesn’t stop them.
That’s where the song “When you’re standing ona  planet5that evolving
and revolving at a hundred millions miles an hour…” (loosely paraphrased)
comes from.

and whatever makes you think that having holes
drilled in your head is going to help you feel better?
I didn’t know what trepanning even was until I looked
it up. <

Apparently trepanning has a long and varied history, wiht skulls thousands
of years old turning up showing obvious trepanning.
Just saying, not at all arguing.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Carla Barnes” <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 7:56 PM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] [digital@phantom.com: Re: Ibogaine film]

Hi David and welcome to the list.

This is the only part of my message I’m sure about 😉
I don’t understand why people are talking about organ
transplants, I understand Patrick was being a d*ckhead
and he was joking but isn’t it a little ghoulish to
start talking about taking some person’s liver who is
still alive?

David are you trying to kill yourself in some dramatic
way and whatever makes you think that having holes
drilled in your head is going to help you feel better?
I didn’t know what trepanning even was until I looked
it up.

How are you doing after ibogaine? Besides wanting to
film someone drilling holes in your head I mean to say
😉

Carla B

— Jaden Shaw <jadensheldon@yahoo.ca> wrote:
— Sara Glatt <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote: > Hey, I
know someone who is on the waiting list for a
liver tranceplant,I
ALSO KNOW FEW PEOPLE WHO ARE MISSING A WORKING
HEART.

By the way this is not 100% correct,” Last year, a
35-year-old woman
died after taking 500mg of the drug during an
informal ibogaine session
in Germany.  In 2001, an inquest in London into
the
case of JW, a
40-year-old heroin addict, ruled that the man had
died principally from
a fatal reaction to the drug.”

The lady died because she had a heart disease,
Ibogaine wasn’t proven to
be the cause for death.But probably her excitement
in combination with
her heart condition and the Ibogain in the first
few
hours when it is
exciting.
The 40 years old heroin addict died 40 hours after
consuming the Iboga,
A fatal reaction to the drug would have been much
earlier then 40 hours
later. He died sitting on the toilet with internal
bleed in his stomach
that’s very common, happened many time to people
who
are weaken and are
constipated. Remember Elvis? He too died sitting
on
the toilet.
Heroin addicts are often constipated, it can
become
chronical.

Sara

—–Original Message—–
From: Patrick K. Kroupa
[mailto:digital@phantom.com]

Sent: vrijdag 24 oktober 2003 11:00
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] [digital@phantom.com: Re:
Ibogaine film]

On [Wed, Oct 22, 2003 at 02:24:43PM -0700], [David
G
Scott] wrote:

| PS do you know anything about trepanning,
anybody
that does it and
| where it can be done?

Okay, I admit defeat.  Someone is pondering an
aftercare modality even
more unique than mine.  David, I strongly
encourage
you to film the
event
when you follow through on your idea — no doubt
this is already your
plan.  It’s an absolutely fucking brilliant idea

or sumthin’

Ibogaine list, this is my friend David.  He is
THIS
guy:

http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v03/n1071/a07.html?183

Apparently David didn’t manage to kill himself
with
ibogaine and got
unsprung instead — who would believe such a
thing!
What’re the
odds?!?!!? — so he’s gone right ahead and is
pursuing interesting new
possibilities.  That’s the spirit!

David, this is the ibogaine list.  It’s sorta like
a
combination of
group
therapy and theatre of the absurd, performed in
front of an audience.

Occasionally BURSTS of information will sail
across
the event horizon.
Sometimes it’s even accurate.

You’re gonna feel right at home.

Patrick

p.s., Yo, anybody here drilled holes in their head
lately…?  <Just
checking.  Figure it couldn’t hurt to ask.  There
doesn’t seem to be a
listing for this service in the Yellow Pages.>

In conclusion:  David, please remember to donate
your brain to science.
Not just science in general, I mean ME in
particular.  I really want it.
I’m sure it’s a beautiful disaster inside there.

______________________________________________________________________

Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping – with improved product search
http://shopping.yahoo.com

From: “gary thomas” <thomaspi@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: [ibogaine] New to list
Date: October 24, 2003 at 9:11:38 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi everyone,  I have just recently be learning about ibogaine.  I live in Kansas (doda land) I would like to find out more info and/or resources closer to my location.  Thanks, Gary

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] [digital@phantom.com: Re: Ibogaine film]
Date: October 24, 2003 at 7:56:11 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi David and welcome to the list.

This is the only part of my message I’m sure about 😉
I don’t understand why people are talking about organ
transplants, I understand Patrick was being a d*ckhead
and he was joking but isn’t it a little ghoulish to
start talking about taking some person’s liver who is
still alive?

David are you trying to kill yourself in some dramatic
way and whatever makes you think that having holes
drilled in your head is going to help you feel better?
I didn’t know what trepanning even was until I looked
it up.

How are you doing after ibogaine? Besides wanting to
film someone drilling holes in your head I mean to say
😉

Carla B

— Jaden Shaw <jadensheldon@yahoo.ca> wrote:
— Sara Glatt <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote: > Hey, I
know someone who is on the waiting list for a
liver tranceplant,I
ALSO KNOW FEW PEOPLE WHO ARE MISSING A WORKING
HEART.

By the way this is not 100% correct,” Last year, a
35-year-old woman
died after taking 500mg of the drug during an
informal ibogaine session
in Germany.  In 2001, an inquest in London into
the
case of JW, a
40-year-old heroin addict, ruled that the man had
died principally from
a fatal reaction to the drug.”

The lady died because she had a heart disease,
Ibogaine wasn’t proven to
be the cause for death.But probably her excitement
in combination with
her heart condition and the Ibogain in the first
few
hours when it is
exciting.
The 40 years old heroin addict died 40 hours after
consuming the Iboga,
A fatal reaction to the drug would have been much
earlier then 40 hours
later. He died sitting on the toilet with internal
bleed in his stomach
that’s very common, happened many time to people
who
are weaken and are
constipated. Remember Elvis? He too died sitting
on
the toilet.
Heroin addicts are often constipated, it can
become
chronical.

Sara

—–Original Message—–
From: Patrick K. Kroupa
[mailto:digital@phantom.com]

Sent: vrijdag 24 oktober 2003 11:00
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] [digital@phantom.com: Re:
Ibogaine film]

On [Wed, Oct 22, 2003 at 02:24:43PM -0700], [David
G
Scott] wrote:

| PS do you know anything about trepanning,
anybody
that does it and
| where it can be done?

Okay, I admit defeat.  Someone is pondering an
aftercare modality even
more unique than mine.  David, I strongly
encourage
you to film the
event
when you follow through on your idea — no doubt
this is already your
plan.  It’s an absolutely fucking brilliant idea

or sumthin’

Ibogaine list, this is my friend David.  He is
THIS
guy:

http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v03/n1071/a07.html?183

Apparently David didn’t manage to kill himself
with
ibogaine and got
unsprung instead — who would believe such a
thing!
What’re the
odds?!?!!? — so he’s gone right ahead and is
pursuing interesting new
possibilities.  That’s the spirit!

David, this is the ibogaine list.  It’s sorta like
a
combination of
group
therapy and theatre of the absurd, performed in
front of an audience.

Occasionally BURSTS of information will sail
across
the event horizon.
Sometimes it’s even accurate.

You’re gonna feel right at home.

Patrick

p.s., Yo, anybody here drilled holes in their head
lately…?  <Just
checking.  Figure it couldn’t hurt to ask.  There
doesn’t seem to be a
listing for this service in the Yellow Pages.>

In conclusion:  David, please remember to donate
your brain to science.
Not just science in general, I mean ME in
particular.  I really want it.
I’m sure it’s a beautiful disaster inside there.

______________________________________________________________________

Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping – with improved product search
http://shopping.yahoo.com

From: Jaden Shaw <jadensheldon@yahoo.ca>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] [digital@phantom.com: Re: Ibogaine film]
Date: October 24, 2003 at 4:57:44 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— Sara Glatt <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote: > Hey, I
know someone who is on the waiting list for a
liver tranceplant,I
ALSO KNOW FEW PEOPLE WHO ARE MISSING A WORKING
HEART.

By the way this is not 100% correct,” Last year, a
35-year-old woman
died after taking 500mg of the drug during an
informal ibogaine session
in Germany.  In 2001, an inquest in London into the
case of JW, a
40-year-old heroin addict, ruled that the man had
died principally from
a fatal reaction to the drug.”

The lady died because she had a heart disease,
Ibogaine wasn’t proven to
be the cause for death.But probably her excitement
in combination with
her heart condition and the Ibogain in the first few
hours when it is
exciting.
The 40 years old heroin addict died 40 hours after
consuming the Iboga,
A fatal reaction to the drug would have been much
earlier then 40 hours
later. He died sitting on the toilet with internal
bleed in his stomach
that’s very common, happened many time to people who
are weaken and are
constipated. Remember Elvis? He too died sitting on
the toilet.
Heroin addicts are often constipated, it can become
chronical.

Sara

—–Original Message—–
From: Patrick K. Kroupa [mailto:digital@phantom.com]

Sent: vrijdag 24 oktober 2003 11:00
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] [digital@phantom.com: Re:
Ibogaine film]

On [Wed, Oct 22, 2003 at 02:24:43PM -0700], [David G
Scott] wrote:

| PS do you know anything about trepanning, anybody
that does it and
| where it can be done?

Okay, I admit defeat.  Someone is pondering an
aftercare modality even
more unique than mine.  David, I strongly encourage
you to film the
event
when you follow through on your idea — no doubt
this is already your
plan.  It’s an absolutely fucking brilliant idea …
or sumthin’

Ibogaine list, this is my friend David.  He is THIS
guy:

http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v03/n1071/a07.html?183

Apparently David didn’t manage to kill himself with
ibogaine and got
unsprung instead — who would believe such a thing!
What’re the
odds?!?!!? — so he’s gone right ahead and is
pursuing interesting new
possibilities.  That’s the spirit!

David, this is the ibogaine list.  It’s sorta like a
combination of
group
therapy and theatre of the absurd, performed in
front of an audience.

Occasionally BURSTS of information will sail across
the event horizon.
Sometimes it’s even accurate.

You’re gonna feel right at home.

Patrick

p.s., Yo, anybody here drilled holes in their head
lately…?  <Just
checking.  Figure it couldn’t hurt to ask.  There
doesn’t seem to be a
listing for this service in the Yellow Pages.>

In conclusion:  David, please remember to donate
your brain to science.
Not just science in general, I mean ME in
particular.  I really want it.
I’m sure it’s a beautiful disaster inside there.

______________________________________________________________________
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] [digital@phantom.com: Re: Ibogaine film]
Date: October 24, 2003 at 7:34:49 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey, I know someone who is on the waiting list for a liver tranceplant,I
ALSO KNOW FEW PEOPLE WHO ARE MISSING A WORKING HEART.

By the way this is not 100% correct,” Last year, a 35-year-old woman
died after taking 500mg of the drug during an informal ibogaine session
in Germany.  In 2001, an inquest in London into the case of JW, a
40-year-old heroin addict, ruled that the man had died principally from
a fatal reaction to the drug.”

The lady died because she had a heart disease, Ibogaine wasn’t proven to
be the cause for death.But probably her excitement in combination with
her heart condition and the Ibogain in the first few hours when it is
exciting.
The 40 years old heroin addict died 40 hours after consuming the Iboga,
A fatal reaction to the drug would have been much earlier then 40 hours
later. He died sitting on the toilet with internal bleed in his stomach
that’s very common, happened many time to people who are weaken and are
constipated. Remember Elvis? He too died sitting on the toilet.
Heroin addicts are often constipated, it can become chronical.

Sara

—–Original Message—–
From: Patrick K. Kroupa [mailto:digital@phantom.com]
Sent: vrijdag 24 oktober 2003 11:00
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] [digital@phantom.com: Re: Ibogaine film]

On [Wed, Oct 22, 2003 at 02:24:43PM -0700], [David G Scott] wrote:

| PS do you know anything about trepanning, anybody that does it and
| where it can be done?

Okay, I admit defeat.  Someone is pondering an aftercare modality even
more unique than mine.  David, I strongly encourage you to film the
event
when you follow through on your idea — no doubt this is already your
plan.  It’s an absolutely fucking brilliant idea … or sumthin’

Ibogaine list, this is my friend David.  He is THIS guy:

http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v03/n1071/a07.html?183

Apparently David didn’t manage to kill himself with ibogaine and got
unsprung instead — who would believe such a thing!  What’re the
odds?!?!!? — so he’s gone right ahead and is pursuing interesting new
possibilities.  That’s the spirit!

David, this is the ibogaine list.  It’s sorta like a combination of
group
therapy and theatre of the absurd, performed in front of an audience.

Occasionally BURSTS of information will sail across the event horizon.
Sometimes it’s even accurate.

You’re gonna feel right at home.

Patrick

p.s., Yo, anybody here drilled holes in their head lately…?  <Just
checking.  Figure it couldn’t hurt to ask.  There doesn’t seem to be a
listing for this service in the Yellow Pages.>

In conclusion:  David, please remember to donate your brain to science.
Not just science in general, I mean ME in particular.  I really want it.
I’m sure it’s a beautiful disaster inside there.

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] [digital@phantom.com: Re: Ibogaine film]
Date: October 24, 2003 at 5:33:50 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

p.s., Yo, anybody here drilled holes in their head lately…?  <Just
checking.  Figure it couldn’t hurt to ask.  There doesn’t seem to be a
listing for this service in the Yellow Pages.><

Does a lip piercing count?
Peace,
Preston
(I know, not a lot of brains to relief pressure on in a lip, but one never
knows without checking first. And a pleasure to make David’s acquaintance,
even just cyberly. And Patrick, it’s nice to find you not working such late
hours last few times I’ve called, but it’s kinda sucky yer not picking up.)

—– Original Message —–
From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 4:59 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] [digital@phantom.com: Re: Ibogaine film]

On [Wed, Oct 22, 2003 at 02:24:43PM -0700], [David G Scott] wrote:

| PS do you know anything about trepanning, anybody that does it and
| where it can be done?

Okay, I admit defeat.  Someone is pondering an aftercare modality even
more unique than mine.  David, I strongly encourage you to film the event
when you follow through on your idea — no doubt this is already your
plan.  It’s an absolutely fucking brilliant idea … or sumthin’

Ibogaine list, this is my friend David.  He is THIS guy:

http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v03/n1071/a07.html?183

Apparently David didn’t manage to kill himself with ibogaine and got
unsprung instead — who would believe such a thing!  What’re the
odds?!?!!? — so he’s gone right ahead and is pursuing interesting new
possibilities.  That’s the spirit!

David, this is the ibogaine list.  It’s sorta like a combination of group
therapy and theatre of the absurd, performed in front of an audience.

Occasionally BURSTS of information will sail across the event horizon.
Sometimes it’s even accurate.

You’re gonna feel right at home.

Patrick

p.s., Yo, anybody here drilled holes in their head lately…?  <Just
checking.  Figure it couldn’t hurt to ask.  There doesn’t seem to be a
listing for this service in the Yellow Pages.>

In conclusion:  David, please remember to donate your brain to science.
Not just science in general, I mean ME in particular.  I really want it.
I’m sure it’s a beautiful disaster inside there.

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] [digital@phantom.com: Re: Ibogaine film]
Date: October 24, 2003 at 4:59:41 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Wed, Oct 22, 2003 at 02:24:43PM -0700], [David G Scott] wrote:

| PS do you know anything about trepanning, anybody that does it and
| where it can be done?

Okay, I admit defeat.  Someone is pondering an aftercare modality even
more unique than mine.  David, I strongly encourage you to film the event
when you follow through on your idea — no doubt this is already your
plan.  It’s an absolutely fucking brilliant idea … or sumthin’

Ibogaine list, this is my friend David.  He is THIS guy:

http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v03/n1071/a07.html?183

Apparently David didn’t manage to kill himself with ibogaine and got
unsprung instead — who would believe such a thing!  What’re the
odds?!?!!? — so he’s gone right ahead and is pursuing interesting new
possibilities.  That’s the spirit!

David, this is the ibogaine list.  It’s sorta like a combination of group
therapy and theatre of the absurd, performed in front of an audience.

Occasionally BURSTS of information will sail across the event horizon.
Sometimes it’s even accurate.

You’re gonna feel right at home.

Patrick

p.s., Yo, anybody here drilled holes in their head lately…?  <Just
checking.  Figure it couldn’t hurt to ask.  There doesn’t seem to be a
listing for this service in the Yellow Pages.>

In conclusion:  David, please remember to donate your brain to science.
Not just science in general, I mean ME in particular.  I really want it.
I’m sure it’s a beautiful disaster inside there.

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Fwd: Returned mail: Cannot send message within 4 hours
Date: October 24, 2003 at 1:42:47 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON@aol.com>
Subject: Returned mail: Cannot send message within 4 hours
Date: October 23, 2003 at 1:32:33 PM EDT
To: <HSLotsof@aol.com>

The original message was received at Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:31:06 -0400 (EDT)
from imo-d03.mail.aol.com [172.18.150.227]

—– The following addresses had permanent fatal errors —–
<ibogaine@mindvox.com>

—– Transcript of session follows —–
… while talking to mindvox.com.:
DATA
<<< 451 qq write error or disk full (#4.3.0)
<ibogaine@mindvox.com>… Deferred: 451 qq write error or disk full (#4.3.0)
Message could not be delivered for 4 hours
Message will be deleted from queue
Final-Recipient: RFC822; ibogaine@mindvox.com
Action: failed
Status: 4.4.7
Remote-MTA: DNS; mindvox.com
Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 451 qq write error or disk full (#4.3.0)
Last-Attempt-Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 13:32:33 -0400 (EDT)

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] a ketamine tale
Date: October 23, 2003 at 9:24:47 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 10/23/03 10:26:35 AM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

Hey Howard,

Thanks, glad you enjoyed the story.

To be honest, I don’t remember it having much effect in interrupting
or dampening my addictions at all. As noted in the story, I certainly forgot
the “need” to run right out and get more coke as soon as I was physically
able to, but I was banging both coke and dope again that same night, just
way later, hours and hours later.

It’s an interesting question though, as I was coming across a number
of references to this trait earlier, before posting the story, while looking
around for a photo of that bottle. I’d never actually heard that before,
but it kinda makes sense to me that it would have some anti-addictive effect.
It is an anesthetic, so withdrawal pain wouldn’t or at least shouldn’t be
a problem, but it seems too fast acting and short lasting to really do the
trick to me, for me anyway. I was also seeing references to its use in
long-term pain relief, which really does interest me, a lot. I also remember
that Dr. John Lilly supposedly had a lot of trouble with being addicted
to Ketamine. So whether it really has those benefits I can’t really say. It
didn’t really do it for me that way, but it was an incredible experience,
and I’ve always wanted to do it that way again. I’ve snorted it once or
twice since then, little bumps off others’ hands that only really got me
quesy feeling and not at all tripping or voyaging. I’ve never again seen
any of these little vials in person.

Which I very much am interested in. I’ve always enjoyed traveling.

Peace,
Preston

Preston,

Please find below one reference from <maps.org>.  From that letter
concerning the heroin/ketamine study in Russia and from my discussion with Rick Doblin
it appears Ketamine is being used as an adjunct to psychotherapy and not to
treat opiate withdrawal.  There are other references to Krupitsky’s work.

Howard

On Mon, 25 May 1998, CheezEase wrote:

In a message dated 98-05-25 05:10:31 EDT, RickMAPS@xxxxxxx writes:
MAPS just allocated $500 toward the travel expenses of Dr. Evgeny
Krupitsky,the researcher in St. Petersburg, Russia who is in the second
year of a three year MAPS and Heffter-supported project into the use of
ketamine in the  treatment of heroin addiction.

Um… but Ketamine is a very addictive drug.  Why not focus on Ibogaine, a
non-addictive drug which combats many forms of addiction (including ketamine
addiction).

I can think of a few reasons. First, my understanding of the treatment
protocol is that the experience is largely aversive because an anxiogenic
drug, bemegride, is administered with the ketamine, which is combined with
an intense focus on the patient’s psychological problems by the
therapist during the session.
Second, the ibogaine experience lasts 20 hours, while ketamine is very
short acting (less than 1 hour when given intramuscularly), which is an
important consideration given the expense of supervision and staff time.
I agree that ibogaine has some advantages over ketamine for the treatment
of addiction. First, people rarely choose to repeatedly self-administer
ibogaine while, as you mention, an unlimited supply of ketamine will
reliably produce a ketamine addict; and second, interrupting addiction to
narcotics is an intrinsic pharmacological property of ibogaine (observed
in rats), while ketamine is an _adjunct_ to psychotherapy in Dr.
Krupitsky’s paradigm. Can someone comment on the effectiveness of ibogaine
treatment for heroin addiction, where there is minimal psychotherapeutic
support? In any case, MAPS is supporting both ibogaine and ketamine
research (see refs below). Only research will determine which therapeutic
method is better indicated for specific subject populations.

REFERENCES

Krupitsky E.M. and Grinenko, A.Y., 1997. Ketamine psychedelic therapy
(KPT): a review of the results of ten years of research. Journal of
Psychoactive Drugs, Apr-Jun; 29(2): 165-83.

Ketamine Psychedelic Therapy (KPT) of Alcoholism and Neurosis
Evgeny M. Krupitsky, M.D. Ph.D. MAPS – Volume 3 Number 4 Winter 1992-93
http://www.maps.org/news-letters/v03n4/03424ket.html

Ibogaine Research Update
MAPS – Volume 6 Number 2 Winter 1995-96
http://www.maps.org/news-letters/v06n2/06204ibo.html

From: “sandra .” <windforme@graffiti.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] a ketamine tale
Date: October 23, 2003 at 3:35:52 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>

Subject: Re: [ibogaine] a ketamine tale

.
To be honest, I don’t remember it having much effect in interrupting or
dampening my addictions at all.

Ketamine Psychedelic Therapy in the Treatment of Heroin Addiction
Investigator: Evgeny Krupitsky, MD, PhD
St. Petersburg, Russia

http://www.maps.org/research/index.html#KETAMINE


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From: “sandra .” <windforme@graffiti.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Viceland article
Date: October 23, 2003 at 3:43:01 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

9th of the 11th is also the date of an eclipse or something like that called the Harmonic Concordance. Mac Mclaughlin (astrologer) said it’s a very auspicious day as the planets lineup to form a six pointed star (star of david)…anyone have more info?

I’m just curious as it’s been mentioned a # of times in my circles…

-sandra

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 07:46:15 -0400
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Viceland article

My birthday is the 9th of 11th and my brother is the 11th of the 9th.<

Well, it means at the least that your brother and I have the same birthday,
if “11th of the 9th” means Sept. 11.
;-)))
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Allison Senepart
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 7:21 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Viceland article

Thanks for the feedback.  Perhaps I didn’t explain things well but I just
meant it was ironic that after all the money we have all probably spent over
time its so hard to find the money to clean up.  I know that using is day by
day, week by week but when you add it all up it kind of blows you away at
how much money you’ve gone through and then still have nothing to show for
it.  Also my understanding was that Methadone is cheap to supply which on
the surface makes it all look good but it never really gives the big picture
of the final cost and the results which I understand to be pretty poor for
rehab & living clean.
PS Question for Nick?  about 9th Nov.  My birthday is the 9th of 11th and my
brother is the 11th of the 9th.  Does that mean anything or nothing.
Allison

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Thursday, 23 October 2003 1:18:49 a.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Viceland article

On samedi, oct 18, 2003, at 17:19 Europe/Paris, HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 10/18/03 9:09:26 AM, aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz writes:

<< Guess most things come down to money. It’s the reason so many
countries

provide Methadone because I understand they buy it by the barrel and it

doesn’t cost too much to provide. Oh but when it comes to blood
pressure,

asthma, other health issues only some drugs here are subsidised and if
you

want otherwise it costs lots & lots.

It also seems ironic that everyone is complaining about the cost of
detox

programmes like ibogaine. I can’t speak for any one else but the
amount of

money we have wasted and stuck up our arms etc. over the years would

probably pay for lots more than the ibogaine cost. ..Allison

Well, you can’t beat the coast of the iboga therapy house. On the
Viceland
article, I do think it was mean spirited as another author had
commented.
However, considering the possible readers as active drug users, many
of those
readers might be more attracted and more comfortable in the mexican
venue as the
article provided photographs of patients as wild as the fellow drug
uses many
of us knew/know on the streets. So while the article sucked, a
picture is
worth a thousand words. And, they all said, come on in we will take
you as f’d up
as you get. Right now you can find an ibogaine venue to fit virtually
every
type of user you can imagine. The only thing that is lacking and I
doubt that
will happen is ibogaine as a street drug. “Hey man give me a bag of
smack
and a cap of gaine.” Well, there goes the dope business or at least
part of it.

Howard

http://www.doraweiner.org
http://www.ibogaine.org

.

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From: Nick Sandberg <nicks22@onetel.net.uk>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Viceland article
Date: October 23, 2003 at 3:29:36 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—- Original message —-
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 00:21:20 +1300 (New Zealand Standard
Time)
From: “Allison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Viceland article
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>

Thanks for the feedback.  Perhaps I didn’t explain
things well but I just meant it was ironic that
after all the money we have all probably spent over
time its so hard to find the money to clean up.  I
know that using is day by day, week by week but when
you add it all up it kind of blows you away at how
much money you’ve gone through and then still have
nothing to show for it.  Also my understanding was
that Methadone is cheap to supply which on the
surface makes it all look good but it never really
gives the big picture of the final cost and the
results which I understand to be pretty poor for
rehab & living clean.
PS Question for Nick?  about 9th Nov.  My birthday
is the 9th of 11th and my brother is the 11th of the
9th.  Does that mean anything or nothing.   Allison

Hi Alison,

It probably means you’re karmically bonded to each other
throughout eternity, like it or not, until one of you gets
liberated and frees the other!

Just read the Viceland article, by the way. God, he’s an
annoying character that Gideon guy who wrote it. When someone
wrote a crap article in the Guardian about ibogaine a couple
of years back we demonstrated outside their building until
they retracted it, which they did. Maybe there’s something we
can do with him or Viceland. Anyone know how to contact him
by email?

Nick

From: Tbgelfling@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Vice Article/ Gideon Yago
Date: October 23, 2003 at 1:31:01 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Everyone, consider the source. Yago demonizes all drugs. I care not what he thinks: now that i have seen the author all creibility is gone. tara

From: Tbgelfling@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Viceland article
Date: October 23, 2003 at 10:15:30 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

to all: i am not interested in arguing. i just want to say/ask this:
My favourie head shop used to carry Vice magazine, and I collected these amazing, free magazines religiously. THen, suddenly, no mopre vice. Here in Greensboro nc USA, I know of nowhere else to get this mag. Is a subscription free (or just shipping and handling) since the mag is free? The guy at the head shop said they stopped carryuing it because something changed about a fee or something and he didn’t think it made sense to pay so much for a free mag. But I am not him: pleease tell me how to get Vice magazine back in town! Send me adverts and I will give them to tattoo shops and other places I think would be interested in supporting Vice and distribnuting the free magazines. It is so popular and hard to get that ppl wil go into a store only because they have vice! I will be Greensboro N.C.’s super Vice advertising girl in exchange for a subscription! Tara Brown 211 S Mendenhall St Apt 4 Greensboro N.C., USA 27403

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Viceland article
Date: October 23, 2003 at 7:46:15 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

My birthday is the 9th of 11th and my brother is the 11th of the 9th.<

Well, it means at the least that your brother and I have the same birthday,
if “11th of the 9th” means Sept. 11.
;-)))
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Allison Senepart
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 7:21 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Viceland article

Thanks for the feedback.  Perhaps I didn’t explain things well but I just
meant it was ironic that after all the money we have all probably spent over
time its so hard to find the money to clean up.  I know that using is day by
day, week by week but when you add it all up it kind of blows you away at
how much money you’ve gone through and then still have nothing to show for
it.  Also my understanding was that Methadone is cheap to supply which on
the surface makes it all look good but it never really gives the big picture
of the final cost and the results which I understand to be pretty poor for
rehab & living clean.
PS Question for Nick?  about 9th Nov.  My birthday is the 9th of 11th and my
brother is the 11th of the 9th.  Does that mean anything or nothing.
Allison

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Thursday, 23 October 2003 1:18:49 a.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Viceland article

On samedi, oct 18, 2003, at 17:19 Europe/Paris, HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 10/18/03 9:09:26 AM, aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz writes:

<< Guess most things come down to money. It’s the reason so many
countries

provide Methadone because I understand they buy it by the barrel and it

doesn’t cost too much to provide. Oh but when it comes to blood
pressure,

asthma, other health issues only some drugs here are subsidised and if
you

want otherwise it costs lots & lots.

It also seems ironic that everyone is complaining about the cost of
detox

programmes like ibogaine. I can’t speak for any one else but the
amount of

money we have wasted and stuck up our arms etc. over the years would

probably pay for lots more than the ibogaine cost. ..Allison

Well, you can’t beat the coast of the iboga therapy house. On the
Viceland
article, I do think it was mean spirited as another author had
commented.
However, considering the possible readers as active drug users, many
of those
readers might be more attracted and more comfortable in the mexican
venue as the
article provided photographs of patients as wild as the fellow drug
uses many
of us knew/know on the streets. So while the article sucked, a
picture is
worth a thousand words. And, they all said, come on in we will take
you as f’d up
as you get. Right now you can find an ibogaine venue to fit virtually
every
type of user you can imagine. The only thing that is lacking and I
doubt that
will happen is ibogaine as a street drug. “Hey man give me a bag of
smack
and a cap of gaine.” Well, there goes the dope business or at least
part of it.

Howard

http://www.doraweiner.org
http://www.ibogaine.org

.

____________________________________________________
IncrediMail – Email has finally evolved – Click Here

From: “Allison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Viceland article
Date: October 23, 2003 at 7:21:20 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks for the feedback.  Perhaps I didn’t explain things well but I just meant it was ironic that after all the money we have all probably spent over time its so hard to find the money to clean up.  I know that using is day by day, week by week but when you add it all up it kind of blows you away at how much money you’ve gone through and then still have nothing to show for it.  Also my understanding was that Methadone is cheap to supply which on the surface makes it all look good but it never really gives the big picture of the final cost and the results which I understand to be pretty poor for rehab & living clean.
PS Question for Nick?  about 9th Nov.  My birthday is the 9th of 11th and my brother is the 11th of the 9th.  Does that mean anything or nothing.   Allison

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Thursday, 23 October 2003 1:18:49 a.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Viceland article

On samedi, oct 18, 2003, at 17:19 Europe/Paris, HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

>
> In a message dated 10/18/03 9:09:26 AM, aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz writes:
>
> << Guess most things come down to money. It’s the reason so many
> countries
>
> provide Methadone because I understand they buy it by the barrel and it
>
> doesn’t cost too much to provide. Oh but when it comes to blood
> pressure,
>
> asthma, other health issues only some drugs here are subsidised and if
> you
>
> want otherwise it costs lots & lots.
>
>
> It also seems ironic that everyone is complaining about the cost of
> detox
>
> programmes like ibogaine. I can’t speak for any one else but the
> amount of
>
> money we have wasted and stuck up our arms etc. over the years would
>
> probably pay for lots more than the ibogaine cost. ..Allison
>>>
>
> Well, you can’t beat the coast of the iboga therapy house. On the
> Viceland
> article, I do think it was mean spirited as another author had
> commented.
> However, considering the possible readers as active drug users, many
> of those
> readers might be more attracted and more comfortable in the mexican
> venue as the
> article provided photographs of patients as wild as the fellow drug
> uses many
> of us knew/know on the streets. So while the article sucked, a
> picture is
> worth a thousand words. And, they all said, come on in we will take
> you as f’d up
> as you get. Right now you can find an ibogaine venue to fit virtually
> every
> type of user you can imagine. The only thing that is lacking and I
> doubt that
> will happen is ibogaine as a street drug. “Hey man give me a bag of
> smack
> and a cap of gaine.” Well, there goes the dope business or at least
> part of it.
>
> Howard
>
> http://www.doraweiner.org
> http://www.ibogaine.org
>
>
>

.

____________________________________________________
IncrediMail – Email has finally evolved – Click Here

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] a ketamine tale
Date: October 23, 2003 at 6:22:44 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Howard,
Thanks, glad you enjoyed the story.
To be honest, I don’t remember it having much effect in interrupting or
dampening my addictions at all. As noted in the story, I certainly forgot
the “need” to run right out and get more coke as soon as I was physically
able to, but I was banging both coke and dope again that same night, just
way later, hours and hours later.
It’s an interesting question though, as I was coming across a number of
references to this trait earlier, before posting the story, while looking
around for a photo of that bottle. I’d never actually heard that before, but
it kinda makes sense to me that it would have some anti-addictive effect. It
is an anesthetic, so withdrawal pain wouldn’t or at least shouldn’t be a
problem, but it seems too fast acting and short lasting to really do the
trick to me, for me anyway. I was also seeing referenses to its use in
long-term pain relief, which really does interest me, a lot. I also remember
that Dr. John Lilly supposedly had a lot of trouble with being addicted to
Ketamine. So whether it really has those benefits I can’t really say. It
didn’t really do it for me that way, but it was an incredible experience,
and I’ve always wanted to do it that way again. I’ve snorted it once or
twice since then, little bumps off others’ hands that only really got me
quesy feeling and not at all tripping or voyaging. I’ve never again seen any
of these little vials in person.
Which I very much am interested in. I’ve always enjoyed traveling.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 1:10 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] a ketamine tale

In a message dated 10/23/03 2:22:59 AM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

Hi all,
A new piece is up at DrugWar.com, written for the New York Waste, a
small punkrockn’roll paper I write for in my “spare” time here in the
City.
Enjoy.
Peace,

Preston

http://www.drugwar.com/pmagick.shtm
There’s No Stamping Out This Magick

Two things:  WOW!!  Great writing.

And how does this relate to the statements of some that ketamine has an
antiaddictive effect?  Did they take a break or what?

Thanks

Howard

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] a ketamine tale
Date: October 23, 2003 at 1:10:10 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 10/23/03 2:22:59 AM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

Hi all,
A new piece is up at DrugWar.com, written for the New York Waste, a
small punkrockn’roll paper I write for in my “spare” time here in the City.
Enjoy.
Peace,

Preston

http://www.drugwar.com/pmagick.shtm
There’s No Stamping Out This Magick

Two things:  WOW!!  Great writing.

And how does this relate to the statements of some that ketamine has an
antiaddictive effect?  Did they take a break or what?

Thanks

Howard

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] a ketamine tale
Date: October 22, 2003 at 10:14:41 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi all,
A new piece is up at DrugWar.com, written for the New York Waste, a
small punkrockn’roll paper I write for in my “spare” time here in the City.
Enjoy.
Peace,
Preston

http://www.drugwar.com/pmagick.shtm

There’s No Stamping Out This Magick
No matter how hard they try
By Preston Peet
For the November issue
of the New York Waste
posted at DrugWar.com
October 22, 2003
(image)
Ketamine molecule
…Kelly is thinking along the same lines though, knowing there isn’t any
more coke. She makes a suggestion that Thomas will always remember.
“Ever done Ketamine?” She asks through her coke-clenched teeth.
“Nope, never.”
Kelly climbs off the bed and goes to her closet. Reaching up onto the shelf,
she pulls out a small white box with printing on it.
“I got this yesterday from a friend. It’s straight from the vet’s office.”
snip-
Read Story at above URL

From: “sophie kiiro” <sophiekiiro@hotmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] the ibocaine list
Date: October 22, 2003 at 7:28:14 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

dear  friends,
i d like to be on your list….
so can you subscibe me on my e mail:
sophiekiiro@headinthesky.com
thanks….

Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.

From: laurent sazy <laurentsazy@free.fr>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Viceland article
Date: October 22, 2003 at 4:33:14 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On samedi, oct 18, 2003, at 17:19 Europe/Paris, HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 10/18/03 9:09:26 AM, aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz writes:

<< Guess most things come down to money.  It’s the reason so many countries

provide Methadone because I understand they buy it by the barrel and it

doesn’t cost too much to provide.  Oh but when it comes to blood pressure,

asthma, other health issues only some drugs here are subsidised and if you

want otherwise it costs lots & lots.

It also seems ironic that everyone is complaining about the cost of detox

programmes like ibogaine.  I can’t speak for any one else but the amount of

money we have wasted and stuck up our arms etc.  over the years would

probably pay for lots more than the ibogaine cost.  ..Allison

Well, you can’t beat the coast of the iboga therapy house.  On the Viceland
article, I do think it was mean spirited as another author had commented.
However, considering the possible readers as active drug users, many of those
readers might be more attracted and more comfortable in the mexican venue as the
article provided photographs of patients as wild as the fellow drug uses many
of us knew/know on the streets.  So while the article sucked, a picture is
worth a thousand words.  And, they all said, come on in we will take you as f’d up
as you get.  Right now you can find an ibogaine venue to fit virtually every
type of user you can imagine.  The only thing that is lacking and I doubt that
will happen is ibogaine as a street drug.  “Hey man give me a bag of smack
and a cap of gaine.”  Well, there goes the dope business or at least part of it.

Howard

http://www.doraweiner.org
http://www.ibogaine.org

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] NYC event Nov. 21, 2003
Date: October 21, 2003 at 5:48:51 PM EDT
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>, <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey all,
For anyone in the NYC area and surrounding environs, the following event
will be held exactly one month from today. I’d love to see those I know
personally, and meet those of you I’ve not yet met in person. It should be a
fun evening, held at the small nightclub/bar where my V dj’s every Saturday.
Feel free to pass this note on far and wide.
—–

Friday, Nov. 21, 2003, 8PM at the Slipper Room
Reading to End the War on Some Drugs and Users
and benefit NY NORML.
Featuring:
Preston Peet (http://www.drugwar.com)
Chi Chi Valenti (http://www.mothernyc.com/empress/chibio1.html)
Bob Holman (http://www.bobholman.com/bio2001.htm)
Sam Abrams (http://www.rit.edu/~smarba/)
167 Orchard Street (@ Stanton) 212-253-7246
—–
So perhaps we’ll all get together and make a real evening out of this. The
proceeds are all going to benefit NY NORML, so it’s for a good cause. The
other readers have some interesting resumes and backgrounds and I imagine it
should be a night to remember.
And of course I’ll need friends and fans lobbing doobies and the like
onstage, so tell all those doobie lobbers you know to be sure and show up.
Of course, this may not help with the remembing part, but that’s cool, I can
handle it.
Peace,
Preston

From: Eaquinet@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Viceland article
Date: October 20, 2003 at 8:10:19 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sandra is, as usual, the voice of reason and of kindness.

From: Nick Sandberg <nicks22@onetel.net.uk>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Would you like to be on the second panel
Date: October 20, 2003 at 3:12:38 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Dana,

Good day for the forum astrologically and numerically. Near
perfect grand hexagram forming in the skies on Nov 9 @ 01.20
GMT, also 119 is 911 reversed and the hexagram is a balancing
symbol. Pic in a qabalah piece I wrote somewhere down the
page at www.nick2211.yage.net/119.htm

May the force be with you!

Nick

—- Original message —-
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 18:00:55 -0400
From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Would you like to be on the second
panel
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

One Day Ibogaine Forum Sunday, Nov. 9

Special 5 hour follow-on Forum,( one day after the Ibogaine
workshop
at the Drug Policy Alliance Conference in E. Rutherford,
N.J.)

At the Unitarian Church, 40 East 35th St (between Park and
Madison
Aves) in NYC, 3 to 8 pm:

Workshop I: “Can an Entheogen be Accepted as a De-tox in a
predominantly 12 Step Environment?”

Treatment providers debating entheogen enthusiasts, 3:00 to
5:30 PM

Featuring Dr. Jeff Gardere (WWRL), Narda Narvaez (PT, DN),
Patrick
Kroupa (Ibogaine List), Daniel Pinchbeck (Breaking Open the
Head),
Sandra Karpetas (Iboga Therapy House, & Rommel Washington
(social
worker)

Workshop II: a political roundtable devoted to getting
Ibogaine
access through the New York State Legislature, from 5:45 to
8:00 PM

Featuring Dr. Ken Alper(NYU Medical), Howard Lotsof (Father
of
Ibogaine), Dana Beal (The Ibogaine Story), Mike Rabinowitz
(of
Assemblyman Dick Gottfried’s Office)* and other special
guest to be
announced

$20 for adults, $10 for students, $5 for the very poor.

Contact Dana at 212-677-7180/4899 or Dana@cures-not-wars or
Narda@Lifefood.com

———

*invited but not yet confirmed

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] To Howard
Date: October 19, 2003 at 11:19:11 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 10/20/03 1:39:18 AM, CallieMimosa@aol.com writes:

<< Howard, I did not. I am really brain dead because I can’t remember how to

sign up for the list! I ran across the instructions about 3 weeks ago when I
was

reading about Ibogaine and went ahead and signed up then.

If you have the instructions please send them to me and I will contact

Michael. I would love to do that since we live close to one another.

Have a good Sunday!  Tammy  >>

Hi Tammy,

To join the Mindvox ibogaine list just send an email to <
ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com> if you please minus the brackets.  Nothing more to it. You don’t
have to write anything in the subject or text area.

The instructions are at http://www.ibogaine.org/mailinglist.html along with
archives material from the calyx list that has not been operative for some
months now.

Howard

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] To Howard
Date: October 19, 2003 at 9:34:08 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Howard, I did not. I am really brain dead because I can’t remember how to sign up for the list! I ran across the instructions about 3 weeks ago when I was reading about Ibogaine and went ahead and signed up then.
If you have the instructions please send them to me and I will contact Michael. I would love to do that since we live close to one another.
Have a good Sunday!  Tammy

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogainesville feedback
Date: October 19, 2003 at 6:01:24 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 10/19/03 9:43:08 PM, douggreene@earthlink.net writes:

<< I was re-ibogainized last month.  I’m happy to report that, unlike the
first
time, I had an experience this session.  I’m still waiting to meet the
Bwiti, though. >>

How do you know you did not meet the Bwiti?  How do you know the Bwiti is not
following you?  How do you know the Bwiti is not under the covers of your
bed.  Will we hear your scream of astonishment or fear as you slip under the
covers tonight?

Regards,

Howard

From: Douglas Greene <douggreene@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Ibogainesville feedback
Date: October 19, 2003 at 5:40:13 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Howard,

I was re-ibogainized last month.  I’m happy to report that, unlike the first
time, I had an experience this session.  I’m still waiting to meet the
Bwiti, though.

Doug

—–Original Message—–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com [mailto:HSLotsof@aol.com]
Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2003 11:29 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogainesville feedback

In a message dated 10/19/03 8:37:59 AM, douggreene@earthlink.net writes:

<< A little closing tidbit: Claudio Naranjo was a seminal early ibogaine
researcher (Howard has a chapter from his book “The Healing Journey” on the
Ibogaine Dossier).  He was also the first to integrate the enneagram with
psychology and import it from Chile to America. >>

http://www.ibogaine.org/naranjo.html

http://www.ibogaine.desk.nl/naranjo.html

Doug,

Have you been iboganized yet?

Howard

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogainesville feedback
Date: October 19, 2003 at 11:28:35 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 10/19/03 8:37:59 AM, douggreene@earthlink.net writes:

<< A little closing tidbit: Claudio Naranjo was a seminal early ibogaine
researcher (Howard has a chapter from his book “The Healing Journey” on the
Ibogaine Dossier).  He was also the first to integrate the enneagram with
psychology and import it from Chile to America. >>

http://www.ibogaine.org/naranjo.html

http://www.ibogaine.desk.nl/naranjo.html

Doug,

Have you been iboganized yet?

Howard

From: Douglas Greene <douggreene@earthlink.net>
Subject: [ibogaine] Ibogainesville feedback
Date: October 19, 2003 at 4:29:28 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

It was appreciated!

I just wanted to point out that Eric’s contact info is at:

http://www.ibeginagain.org/contact.shtml

and that this piece was not actually intended as an article in itself, but rather a brief intro/teaser to get media articles/segments produced.

A little closing tidbit: Claudio Naranjo was a seminal early ibogaine researcher (Howard has a chapter from his book “The Healing Journey” on the Ibogaine Dossier).  He was also the first to integrate the enneagram with psychology and import it from Chile to America.

And two weekends ago, Sue Berger taught a hardy settlement of healing iboganauts how to unveil their patterns of fixation.  The Journey continues   . .

Doug

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Some should help this guy
Date: October 19, 2003 at 12:40:22 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 10/19/03 2:07:25 AM, CallieMimosa@aol.com writes:

<< Michael, my name is Tammy and I am from Nashville. Drop me a line. Do you
go
to MTTC in Nashville for Methadone treatment?
You will enjoy the list and get to ‘meet’ some other well informed addicts.
Peace, Callie aka Tammy >>

Tammy,

Did you email Michael with instructions to join the list?

Howard

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Some should help this guy
Date: October 18, 2003 at 10:00:13 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Great idea Howard and I bet some kind folk have already E-mailed him some links. Two or three people responded when I first joined list 3 weeks ago.
I too doubt that treatment providers will contact Michael until he asks them.

Michael, my name is Tammy and I am from Nashville. Drop me a line. Do you go to MTTC in Nashville for Methadone treatment?
You will enjoy the list and get to ‘meet’ some other well informed addicts.
Peace, Callie aka Tammy

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re:ethics/call this reform?
Date: October 18, 2003 at 6:27:04 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>, “Newsroom-L” <newsroom-l@lists.netspace.org>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Richard Lake wrote >I would want to newshawk it to MAP if you post it, if
only
because it helps get around the word that this so called decriminalization
bill in Canada is a farce – something I think too many Yanks do not yet
understand.<

Hey Richard and all,
I’d appreciate the hawking.
It’s now up at DrugWar.com, with photos and a ton of imbedded links.
Please stop by as I added a lot more to it. (See URL link and snip below)
Thanks to all who responded with opinions and ideas. It is a completely
different article than the one going in to HT, so I’ve no qualms about
publishing this at all now, especially since I’ve added a bunch more info to
it since last posting.
Again, thanks to everyone who took time to respond to my ethics
question, and feel free to pass this link on to others. I worked pretty hard
gathering these links to fill it out too, trying to make it a good spot for
research purposes on what’s happening up Northways in terms of pot
legislation at the moment.
Thanks also to Tim Meehan for the quotes and for his help steering me to
information. You were a great big help Tim.
Peace all,
Preston

http://www.drugwar.com/pcanadarecrim.shtm

You Call This Reform?
Canada Backtracks and Babysteps on Marijuana
By Preston Peet
for DrugWar.com
posted October 18, 2003
(image of amazing garden, trust me)
Will Canadian Patients and even recreational users Ever Get This Medicine
sans hassle?
Despite US Drug Czar John Walters’ recent assertions that Canada is “the one
place in the hemisphere where things are going the wrong (way) rapidly,”
Canada is moving towards stricter marijuana policies. After a summer of
defacto legalized marijuana use lead to no apparent increase in anarchy,
violence or crime on Canadian streets, the Ontario Appeals Court effectively
recriminalized recreational use on October 7, 2003, while ordering that the
Canadian government insure patients can more easily obtain their medicinal
marijuana by allowing businesses and individuals to grow their own for
medical use. At the same time, Canada’s proposed “decrim” bill seeks to
further tighten rather than relax Canada’s pot laws.
snip-
Read Complete Article at above URL.
—–

—– Original Message —–
From: “Richard Lake” <rlake@mapinc.org>
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2003 1:45 PM
Subject: Re: [drugwar] question about ethics in running an article

Preston,

It is a tough call, IMHO. I don’t have any idea what sort of formal or
informal agreements you may have with High Times as to the exclusive use
of
what they accept from you for publication, but if you believe that you are
crossing a line you agreed to honor, then of course you should not post
it.

On the other hand it is an important story now, one that deserves
circulation. I would want to newshawk it to MAP if you post it, if only
because it helps get around the word that this so called decriminalization
bill in Canada is a farce – something I think too many Yanks do not yet
understand.

I am not sure what all is going on with High Times these days. I hear that
they will be giving the ax to the Freedom Fighter section. I hope it is
not
true. It is the first thing I turn to when I pick up my copy of High Times
at the local bookstore.

Don’t know how many complete collections of High Times are out there, but
I
have one. I never subscribed – in part because at times I lived at
addresses where I really wouldn’t want a military mail clerk knowing what
I
was reading – but more so because I believed that buying it from a news
stand supported getting it on news stand shelves.

I really do appreciate that High Times has been a force on our side over
the years, but I am starting to wonder about the direction it is going
now.
Cannabis Culture, for example, seems to be doing a better job of focusing
on our issues these days. If the Freedom Fighter section is history, I may
just stop collecting the magazine.

It is not like I see a lot in any magazine that has not appeared on the
net
first.

Oh, I would not say that my collection is in mint condition. I get high
with a little help from my friends, and some of them – in the past – have
studied the grow sections to the point of making them a little ragged.

Richard

At 10:29 AM 10/18/03, Preston Peet wrote
Hey all,
Here’s is what I turned in to HT yesterday on the Canadian brouhaha,
but
unfortunately it’s been way, way, way chopped (it wasn’t that long to
begin
with).
I’m not really complaining, but…welll…hmmm.
Anyway, I have a question, particularly for the journalists hovering
about these lists here, but others feel free to voice their opinions too:

IF the article I turned in is twice as long, possibly longer, (see
below) and the edited piece only remotely looks like the original piece,
is
it ethical to run my longer, unedited version at DrugWar.com before the
Feb.
issue of HT hits stands (I think in Dec is when it hits stands-HT runs
about
3 months in advance, with the Feb. issue being put to bed now, and Dec.
issue hitting stands now if I’m getting that right) which contains the
much
abbreviated version?
Advise please. I think it’s cool and will probably run it anyway
since
the original version is much longer with more quotes and points made, but
I’m curious as to what others think of this.
thanks.
Peace,
Preston

You Call This Reform?
Canada Backtracks on Marijuana

By Preston Peet
<snip>

<]=———————————————————————–=[

[           Moderated by: Preston Peet |
.drugwar.com           ]
|          -=/[ To Subscribe: drugwar-subscribe@mindvox.com ]/=-
|
|             To Unsubscribe: drugwar-unsubscribe@mindvox.com
|
[   DrugWar List in Digest Format:
ugwar-digest-subscribe@mindvox.com   ]

<]=———————————————————————–=[

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Would you like to be on the second panel
Date: October 18, 2003 at 6:00:55 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

One Day Ibogaine Forum Sunday, Nov. 9

Special 5 hour follow-on Forum,( one day after the Ibogaine workshop
at the Drug Policy Alliance Conference in E. Rutherford, N.J.)

At the Unitarian Church, 40 East 35th St (between Park and Madison
Aves) in NYC, 3 to 8 pm:

Workshop I: “Can an Entheogen be Accepted as a De-tox in a
predominantly 12 Step Environment?”

Treatment providers debating entheogen enthusiasts, 3:00 to 5:30 PM

Featuring Dr. Jeff Gardere (WWRL), Narda Narvaez (PT, DN), Patrick
Kroupa (Ibogaine List), Daniel Pinchbeck (Breaking Open the Head),
Sandra Karpetas (Iboga Therapy House, & Rommel Washington (social
worker)

Workshop II: a political roundtable devoted to getting Ibogaine
access through the New York State Legislature, from 5:45 to 8:00 PM

Featuring Dr. Ken Alper(NYU Medical), Howard Lotsof (Father of
Ibogaine), Dana Beal (The Ibogaine Story), Mike Rabinowitz (of
Assemblyman Dick Gottfried’s Office)* and other special guest to be
announced

$20 for adults, $10 for students, $5 for the very poor.

Contact Dana at 212-677-7180/4899 or Dana@cures-not-wars or Narda@Lifefood.com

———

*invited but not yet confirmed

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Some should help this guy
Date: October 18, 2003 at 4:12:35 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 10/18/03 7:38:16 PM, dana@cures-not-wars.org writes:

<< michael in cleveland tn.goto all may marches and ibogaine isnt
mentioned or heard of.please send info;need help >>

Since Michael in cleveland isn’t saying much in the message possibly you
should provide him with some web pages so he can make his wishes known or tell him
how to join the ibogaine list.  I really doubt any of the ibogaine providers
will respond to your notice for michael.

Howard

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Some should help this guy
Date: October 18, 2003 at 3:36:24 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

From: Loser25tn@aol.com

michael in cleveland tn.goto all may marches and ibogaine isnt mentioned or heard of.please send info;need help

From: “Brad Fisher” <brad.fisher@guaranty.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Viceland article
Date: October 18, 2003 at 2:07:58 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I too, find it “ironic” to listen to people at the Methadone Clinic
complaining about the cost. When I speak to the majority of people about
their experience, it quickly becomes apparent their lives have improved
significantly while taking Methadone.
bf

—–Original Message—–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com [mailto:HSLotsof@aol.com]
Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2003 8:08 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Viceland article

In a message dated 10/18/03 12:50:43 PM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

<< >It also seems ironic that everyone is complaining about the cost of
detox

programmes like ibogaine.  I can’t speak for any one else but the amount of

money we have wasted and stuck up our arms etc.  over the years would

probably pay for lots more than the ibogaine cost.  ..<

Yes, good point Allison,

But, while I’m most certainly NOT complaining or whining about the cost

most charge for ibogaine treatment, it isn’t often that an addict has a

thousand or more at one time. When I was on the streets, it was 10 buck bag

by ten buck bag, occasionally scamming up enough for a bundle or two at one

time, a couple hundred bucks. For me as an addict it was impossible to save

up enough money to pay for a thousand dollar or more detox. (Hell, it’s hard

enough to do so NOW.)

Peace,

Preston >>

That is why it was important to have ibogaine as an approved medication so
that it would have been paid for private or social insurance.  Too bad it
never
happened.  Maybe 18-mc will make it.

http://ibogaine.org/18-mc/index.html

European Ibogaine Forum 2018

Howard

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Viceland article
Date: October 18, 2003 at 11:07:50 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 10/18/03 12:50:43 PM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

<< >It also seems ironic that everyone is complaining about the cost of detox

programmes like ibogaine.  I can’t speak for any one else but the amount of

money we have wasted and stuck up our arms etc.  over the years would

probably pay for lots more than the ibogaine cost.  ..<

Yes, good point Allison,

But, while I’m most certainly NOT complaining or whining about the cost

most charge for ibogaine treatment, it isn’t often that an addict has a

thousand or more at one time. When I was on the streets, it was 10 buck bag

by ten buck bag, occasionally scamming up enough for a bundle or two at one

time, a couple hundred bucks. For me as an addict it was impossible to save

up enough money to pay for a thousand dollar or more detox. (Hell, it’s hard

enough to do so NOW.)

Peace,

Preston >>

That is why it was important to have ibogaine as an approved medication so
that it would have been paid for private or social insurance.  Too bad it never
happened.  Maybe 18-mc will make it.

http://ibogaine.org/18-mc/index.html

European Ibogaine Forum 2018

Howard

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] seeking submissions/political potheads
Date: October 18, 2003 at 12:27:07 PM EDT
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>, <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <dcaction@drugsense.org>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey all, Please excuse the cross posting here, but I’d like as many people
on this particular lists to see this note.
(see halfway down message for my “seeking submissions”  notice please)
First of all,
Thanks to Tim Meehan not only for posting his links to the Boston Globe
series of drug war stories, (see below for those links) but also for all his
hard work, and for giving me a lot of information and some well-stated
quotes for my most recent HT article.
That out of the way, I found the following drug war related article at
Boston Globe also, and it reminded me of one of the articles already
submitted to the anthology I’m currently editing for Disinformation Company,
“Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (due out in Fall
2004- I know, totally shameless plug), an article by former High Times
senior editor Steven Wishnia titled, “Marijuana Will Never Be Legal as Long
as Most Pot-Smokers Are Apathetic Airheads.”

The first two paragraphs of his article begin like this:

It was only one of the 735,000 pot busts in the United States in 2000, one
of 66 that afternoon on Boston Common. The handcuffed kid, a scrawny,
stringy-haired youth of about 17, struggled to walk down the hill, hustled
and shoved by the undercover cop who’d caught him puffing a joint. A crowd
of about 50 angry protesters followed, chanting “ass-hole, ass-hole” in
singsong, like Fenway Park fans booing a Yankee beanball pitcher, and
throwing plastic bottles at the cop, a balding, beefy white guy
unconvincingly disguised in a Baja surfer hoodie with a yellow headshop
sticker over his gut. Reinforcements rushed up to fend them off, and the kid
was locked up in the makeshift holding tank at the edge of the park, along
with the rest of the day’s prisoners.
What is telling is what happened next, when two young men accosted a
marijuana-magazine reporter. Did they want to know what the confrontation
was about? This, after all, was the annual Boston Freedom Rally, the
second-largest pot-legalization demonstration in the country. No. They
wanted to find out “where anyone’s selling any glass pieces, man?”<

Wishnia’s point is that while there are 40 million + pot smokers and users
in this country, there are far too few who are willing to go out and work
for changing the laws or barring that even addmitting to their use. And
while I know a lot of smokers and users who are potlicically active, I don’t
know 40 million who are, I only know a few score as friends, and have met
maybe a hundred or three tops who while not personal friends are active in
the movement to change the laws. On the reverse side, I even have met
smokers who are racist bigots (damnit, pot smoking doesn’t open up all minds
unfortunately) who have told me the laws are fine as they are (why would the
government lie, one guy related to my girlfriend asked me in all seriousness
a couple of years ago, saying there must be something to the pot laws and
purported pot dangers for the feds to go to such lengths to enforce the
anti-pot laws for so long, and besides, not all people can handle their
“drugs” -meaning in his mind those darker and poorer types who use pot- much
to my chagrin having just shared a bowl of fine Strawberry with the guy).
So I just wanted to bring this up, as I was reminded of Wishnia’s
article and the points he makes when reading the Boston Globe article
snipped and linked below. It’s true- so long as pot smokers feel they aren’t
really in all that much danger, that they don’t really need to make their
voices heard and can afford to vegout in front of their tvs playing
videogames and keeping their use secret, things will never change. I’m most
certainly NOT advocating outting people- I t hink that is wrong in my
opinion, but I seriously regret the fear and lack of drive on the part of so
many pot users.
For all the good I myself feel magazines like HT and CC do, admittedly
they tend to preach to the converted, and even they can’t seem to get most
of those converts to do much more than get stoned and look at pretty
pictures, content, with the run of the mill readers even seemingly enjoying
the thrill of being minor outlaws by their illicit pot use.
How in the heck can we get more of these apathtic stoner types to at
least make an effort at getting to the polls, beyond what we’re doing now?
——–

On another note- I’m accepting article submissions for the aforementioned
anthology I’m editing, so I’d love to read anything anyone is interested in
submitting they’d like me to consider for publication. I will have to be a
genuine stickler for what I accept, as this book is going to be a very
important addition to the debate about drugs, drug policies and attitudes
towards drugs in the 21st Century, and I will accept only the very best
writing. That said, I’m willing and eager to read anything anyone would like
to submit but making absolutely no promises on actually publishing it. This
book will be published not only in the US, but in Canada, Australia and the
UK too, and possibly other countries after translations as well.
As my pitch letter states:

The aim of this book is to illustrate why drugs are pertinent in the 21st
Century. How did we get where we are in terms of drugs policies and
perceptions? Where are we going, and what are some of the many routes we can
take to get there concerning how we deal with drugs and users of all kinds?
Why do people take or not take drugs?
I’m seeking articles on all areas concerning drugs, legal and non-legal.
I want articles about pharmaceuticals, speeds, hallucinogens and ethneogens,
cocaine and heroin, prohibition, anti-prohibition, laws and reform efforts,
the hypocrisy of the US conducting overt and covert actions against other
countries for their drug production but never entertaining the thought of
allowing other countries to do likewise against our numerous tobacco fields,
etc. I definitely do not want personal anecdotal works. NO stories about how
“I got high and went swimming naked under the moon at the beach” kinds of
work. I want serious essays and articles about all topics related to drugs.
I already have a bevy of top-notch people contributing work, including
Jacob Sullum, Mike Gray, Paul Krassner, our own Erin Hildebrandt, Cynthia
Cotts, Dr. Stan Grof, Wishnia, Bill Weinberg, Russ Kick, Jim Hogshire, Lonny
Shavelson, Eric Sterling, and many more.

Send any submissions to me at:

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com

Please be sure to put “submission” in the subject heading. For those who are
already working on articles, I hope everything is going well and I’m looking
forward to seeing your work.

For those unfamiliar with the Disinformation Company’s work so far, one
of their recently published writers Janine Roberts, was on Washington
Journal for nearly an hour last weekend or the weekend before actually,
discussing her book “Glitter and Greed,” about the diamond trade, and you
can see some links to previous Disinformation Company books below. Then be
sure to check out Tim Meehan’s links too for those who’ve not yet seen
them..

Some previous books from Disinformation Company

http://www.drugwar.com/pYABLTexcerpts.shtm
You Are Being Lied To
The Disinformation Guide to Media Distortion,
Historical Whitewashes and Cultural Myths


Everything You Know Is Wrong: The Disinformation Guide to Secrets & Lies


Abuse Your Illusions: The Disinformation Guide to Media Mirages and
Establishment Lies
——
Tim Meehan’s message supplying links-

I see all of these have been hawked and are in the queue, but I thought I’d
pass them on.

http://www.bostonphoenix.com/boston/news_features/out_there/documents/03237110.asp

Up in smoke
Why marijuana users are unlikely to lead the next, uh, political revolution
BY STEVE ALMOND
Just how I wound up at the Hemp Festival last month is not something I want
to get into, at least not without my attorney present. But I do want to make
a few observations about the general state of the marijuana-smoking
community, of which I am a proud (and, if I may add, medically necessitated)
member.
But before I get into all that, I’d like to share a few warm memories of my
afternoon….But I must say that the fact that I couldn’t buy at pipe at the
Hemp Festival did underscore one disturbing truth about the larger stoner
community: we are not exactly an imposing political force.
snip-

http://www.bostonphoenix.com/boston/news_features/top/features/documents/03237100.asp
Behind closed doors
What really went on at the Office of National Drug Control Policy’s Summit
of
New England Governors
BY CAMILLE DODERO
http://www.bostonphoenix.com/boston/news_features/editorial/documents/03237111.asp
Reefer madness, redux
The war on drugs destroys lives but does nothing to mitigate the abuse of
drugs
in this country

http://www.bostonphoenix.com/boston/news_features/other_stories/documents/03237095.asp
Snake-oil salesmen
Why does the Bush administration seem so intent on denying medical marijuana
to
adults in extreme discomfort?
BY KRISTEN LOMBARDI

http://www.bostonphoenix.com/boston/news_features/other_stories/documents/03237103.asp
Baby talk
Our top officials warn of predators seeking to addict our children to drugs,
but
it’s the adult users we should be worrying about
BY DAVID S. BERNSTEIN
-Tim

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Viceland article
Date: October 18, 2003 at 11:19:46 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 10/18/03 9:09:26 AM, aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz writes:

<< Guess most things come down to money.  It’s the reason so many countries

provide Methadone because I understand they buy it by the barrel and it

doesn’t cost too much to provide.  Oh but when it comes to blood pressure,

asthma, other health issues only some drugs here are subsidised and if you

want otherwise it costs lots & lots.

It also seems ironic that everyone is complaining about the cost of detox

programmes like ibogaine.  I can’t speak for any one else but the amount of

money we have wasted and stuck up our arms etc.  over the years would

probably pay for lots more than the ibogaine cost.  ..Allison

Well, you can’t beat the coast of the iboga therapy house.  On the Viceland
article, I do think it was mean spirited as another author had commented.
However, considering the possible readers as active drug users, many of those
readers might be more attracted and more comfortable in the mexican venue as the
article provided photographs of patients as wild as the fellow drug uses many
of us knew/know on the streets.  So while the article sucked, a picture is
worth a thousand words.  And, they all said, come on in we will take you as f’d up
as you get.  Right now you can find an ibogaine venue to fit virtually every
type of user you can imagine.  The only thing that is lacking and I doubt that
will happen is ibogaine as a street drug.  “Hey man give me a bag of smack
and a cap of gaine.”  Well, there goes the dope business or at least part of it.

Howard

http://www.doraweiner.org
http://www.ibogaine.org

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Viceland article
Date: October 18, 2003 at 8:48:33 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

It also seems ironic that everyone is complaining about the cost of detox
programmes like ibogaine.  I can’t speak for any one else but the amount of
money we have wasted and stuck up our arms etc.  over the years would
probably pay for lots more than the ibogaine cost.  ..<

Yes, good point Allison,
But, while I’m most certainly NOT complaining or whining about the cost
most charge for ibogaine treatment, it isn’t often that an addict has a
thousand or more at one time. When I was on the streets, it was 10 buck bag
by ten buck bag, occasionally scamming up enough for a bundle or two at one
time, a couple hundred bucks. For me as an addict it was impossible to save
up enough money to pay for a thousand dollar or more detox. (Hell, it’s hard
enough to do so NOW.)
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Allison Senepart
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2003 5:00 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Viceland article

Guess most things come down to money.  It’s the reason so many countries
provide Methadone because I understand they buy it by the barrel and it
doesn’t cost too much to provide.  Oh but when it comes to blood pressure,
asthma, other health issues only some drugs here are subsidised and if you
want otherwise it costs lots & lots.
It also seems ironic that everyone is complaining about the cost of detox
programmes like ibogaine.  I can’t speak for any one else but the amount of
money we have wasted and stuck up our arms etc.  over the years would
probably pay for lots more than the ibogaine cost.  ..Allison

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Friday, 17 October 2003 5:55:59 p.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Viceland article

Here at the Iboga Therapy House (where we offer treatments free of charge)
it currently costs
us about $2000-$3000 per treatment and that’s at a bare bones minimum…If
you take into
account what it costs for the ibo itself (between $200-300 per dose) + rent
, facilitators, food,
nutritional supplements, household supplies, bills (such as internet, phone,
hydro),
transportation and other misc. costs.

You can’t possibly expect that there is money being made at the Ibogaine
Association even if
they are charging $2800 for treatments. In my figures that means they are
barely making
ends meet, especially with no outside assistance or funding.

I don’t always understand this list, Y’all are sometimes so ready to begin
jumping down
eachothers throats. It seems to me there are too many internal politics here
at times. Am I
wrong or isn’t this list supposed to be a mutual support network? I mean,
even if there was
money being made, I can’t see why in the world there is something wrong with
that? True,
Ibogaine needs to be made available to the masses, and someday hopefully it
will be, but
you can bet it’s not going to happen without the efforts of those who are at
least doing
something about it now. Without the testimonies of those treated, the
facilitators and
families/support networks of these people, the world will never learn about
Ibo’s potential.

To all those of you who have facilitated the use of Ibo in either addiction
treatment or
personal transformation: keep up the good work and never mind the
bickering…

cheers,

Sandra
Iboga Therapy House

From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 22:27:00 EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Viceland article

Correction Please. I’m sorry,
Pinchbecks article states 200 patients at $2800 and then $600 for follow
up.

Thats still alot of greenbacks or pesos or whatever.


_______________________________________________
Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net
Check out our value-added Premium features, such as an extra 20MB for just
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.

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From: Sharilyn Ozonko <bleed_pretty_girl@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] ibogaine………Sharilyn
Date: October 18, 2003 at 8:31:17 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

huh?

Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping – with improved product search

From: “Allison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Viceland article
Date: October 18, 2003 at 5:00:11 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Guess most things come down to money.  It’s the reason so many countries provide Methadone because I understand they buy it by the barrel and it doesn’t cost too much to provide.  Oh but when it comes to blood pressure, asthma, other health issues only some drugs here are subsidised and if you want otherwise it costs lots & lots.
It also seems ironic that everyone is complaining about the cost of detox programmes like ibogaine.  I can’t speak for any one else but the amount of money we have wasted and stuck up our arms etc.  over the years would probably pay for lots more than the ibogaine cost.  ..Allison

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Friday, 17 October 2003 5:55:59 p.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Viceland article

Here at the Iboga Therapy House (where we offer treatments free of charge) it currently costs
us about $2000-$3000 per treatment and that’s at a bare bones minimum…If you take into
account what it costs for the ibo itself (between $200-300 per dose) + rent , facilitators, food,
nutritional supplements, household supplies, bills (such as internet, phone, hydro),
transportation and other misc. costs.

You can’t possibly expect that there is money being made at the Ibogaine Association even if
they are charging $2800 for treatments. In my figures that means they are barely making
ends meet, especially with no outside assistance or funding.

I don’t always understand this list, Y’all are sometimes so ready to begin jumping down
eachothers throats. It seems to me there are too many internal politics here at times. Am I
wrong or isn’t this list supposed to be a mutual support network? I mean, even if there was
money being made, I can’t see why in the world there is something wrong with that? True,
Ibogaine needs to be made available to the masses, and someday hopefully it will be, but
you can bet it’s not going to happen without the efforts of those who are at least doing
something about it now. Without the testimonies of those treated, the facilitators and
families/support networks of these people, the world will never learn about Ibo’s potential.

To all those of you who have facilitated the use of Ibo in either addiction treatment or
personal transformation: keep up the good work and never mind the bickering…

cheers,

Sandra
Iboga Therapy House

From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 22:27:00 EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Viceland article

> Correction Please. I’m sorry,
> Pinchbecks article states 200 patients at $2800 and then $600 for follow up.
>
> Thats still alot of greenbacks or pesos or whatever.


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.

____________________________________________________
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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Viceland article
Date: October 17, 2003 at 4:08:03 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

a person’s reward is determined by his effort and the hardship he
endures in pursuit of good. “In accordance with the effort is the
reward,” and not by any objective standards of accomplishment. In other
words, people with a naturally benevolent disposition, even those whose
generosities have become a legend in their community, must go beyond the
point where it is natural and easy to give, and overcome their
resistance to doing that little bit more. It is from this “effort” of
pushing through resistance that comes the greatest reward, and not in
the many generosities that come naturally, no matter how noteworthy they
may be.

Ibogaine is avalible for the Masses,just like natraxone.
People like to use drugs and like to be a drug addict it is easy
and avalible. Some are getting the drug to the door of their house.
Methadone is availible for no charge too and many people are happy using
it.
Our government know about ibogaine treatment thanks to Howard, but will
not provide it.
You can say that cammomille tea works very well and we know it for ages
but within three years
U.S fda is going to take all herbal remedies off the market.

sara

—–Original Message—–
From: sandra . [mailto:windforme@graffiti.net]
Sent: vrijdag 17 oktober 2003 6:55
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Viceland article

Here at the Iboga Therapy House (where we offer treatments free of
charge) it currently costs
us about $2000-$3000 per treatment and that’s at a bare bones
minimum…If you take into
account what it costs for the ibo itself (between $200-300 per dose) +
rent , facilitators, food,
nutritional supplements, household supplies, bills (such as internet,
phone, hydro),
transportation and other misc. costs.

You can’t possibly expect that there is money being made at the Ibogaine
Association even if
they are charging $2800 for treatments. In my figures that means they
are barely making
ends meet, especially with no outside assistance or funding.

I don’t always understand this list, Y’all are sometimes so ready to
begin jumping down
eachothers throats. It seems to me there are too many internal politics
here at times. Am I
wrong or isn’t this list supposed to be a mutual support network? I
mean, even if there was
money being made, I can’t see why in the world there is something wrong
with that? True,
Ibogaine needs to be made available to the masses, and someday hopefully
it will be, but
you can bet it’s not going to happen without the efforts of those who
are at least doing
something about it now. Without the testimonies of those treated, the
facilitators and
families/support networks of these people, the world will never learn
about Ibo’s potential.

To all those of you who have facilitated the use of Ibo in either
addiction treatment or
personal transformation: keep up the good work and never mind the
bickering…

cheers,

Sandra
Iboga Therapy House

From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 22:27:00 EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Viceland article

Correction Please. I’m sorry,
Pinchbecks article states 200 patients at $2800 and then $600 for
follow up.

Thats still alot of greenbacks or pesos or whatever.


_______________________________________________
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Check out our value-added Premium features, such as an extra 20MB for
just US$9.95 per year!

Powered by Outblaze

From: “sandra .” <windforme@graffiti.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Viceland article
Date: October 17, 2003 at 12:55:18 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Here at the Iboga Therapy House (where we offer treatments free of charge) it currently costs
us about $2000-$3000 per treatment and that’s at a bare bones minimum…If you take into
account what it costs for the ibo itself (between $200-300 per dose) + rent , facilitators, food,
nutritional supplements, household supplies, bills (such as internet, phone, hydro),
transportation and other misc. costs.

You can’t possibly expect that there is money being made at the Ibogaine Association even if
they are charging $2800 for treatments. In my figures that means they are barely making
ends meet, especially with no outside assistance or funding.

I don’t always understand this list, Y’all are sometimes so ready to begin jumping down
eachothers throats. It seems to me there are too many internal politics here at times. Am I
wrong or isn’t this list supposed to be a mutual support network? I mean, even if there was
money being made, I can’t see why in the world there is something wrong with that? True,
Ibogaine needs to be made available to the masses, and someday hopefully it will be, but
you can bet it’s not going to happen without the efforts of those who are at least doing
something about it now. Without the testimonies of those treated, the facilitators and
families/support networks of these people, the world will never learn about Ibo’s potential.

To all those of you who have facilitated the use of Ibo in either addiction treatment or
personal transformation: keep up the good work and never mind the bickering…

cheers,

Sandra
Iboga Therapy House

From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 22:27:00 EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Viceland article

Correction Please. I’m sorry,
Pinchbecks article states 200 patients at $2800 and then $600 for follow up.

Thats still alot of greenbacks or pesos or whatever.


_______________________________________________
Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net
Check out our value-added Premium features, such as an extra 20MB for just US$9.95 per year!

Powered by Outblaze

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogainesville
Date: October 16, 2003 at 11:23:33 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I liked this alot 🙂 Thanks for posting it! The only
thing I would add are more details about what you do
and how to make contact if people want to try a
different approach to rehab.

Carla B

— Douglas Greene <douggreene@earthlink.net> wrote:
I wrote an article about Eric Taub’s work in
Gainesville that was recently
posted to his site:

http://www.ibeginagain.org/articles/ibogainesville.shtml

Feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Doug

__________________________________
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The New Yahoo! Shopping – with improved product search
http://shopping.yahoo.com

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Viceland article
Date: October 16, 2003 at 11:20:59 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I think that nearly everybody whos working with giving
ibogaine treatment cares about ibogaine or why would
they be doing that? I also think that saying someone
is doing it only because they are so dedicated to
helping addicts and no other reason is just lying. I
don’t think that article in vice had a lot of truth it
was just mean but at the same time seeing those
numbers added up and seeing how its in mexico, that is
a lot of money to be made for giving ibogaine.

What I get from reading daniel pinchbecks articles is
a different version of what I get when alot of the
cannabis people talk about junkies, its this
patronizing tone coming from someone who doesnt know
anything about addiction at all. What am I tryign to
say, its not very real. It might be interesting and
have his opinions on culture or whatever but it really
says nothing at all about addiction. This is just my
opinion.

When I look at some other article he wrote which I’ve
lost the url to, it’s more sort of doofy biosphere
writing and how people who drive SUVs or make a lot of
money are less enlightened then he is. The whole thing
I get out of it is god your a geek 😉 Sorry!

What I really like is what he writes for art and
culture where he’s writing about his dad, from that I
get a totally different feeling, like he does know
what he’s talking about and is sharing it. That feels
real and I liked it, the rest just reminds me of
people I used to meet at parties when I was 15 and
everyone was stoned and hadn’t found hard drugs yet.

What is interesting to know is what happened to the 4
people who were filmed for the mexico movie? The vice
article said 2 relapsed and were back on whatever
drugs they were doing, did the other 2 stay clean?

Carla B

— Randy Hencken <randyhencken@hotmail.com> wrote:

You are making gross assumptions and you don’t
understand what it costs to
operate a business.

Randy.

From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Viceland article
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 22:27:00 EDT

Correction Please. I’m sorry,
Pinchbecks article states 200 patients at $2800 and
then $600 for follow
up.

Thats still alot of greenbacks or pesos or
whatever.

_________________________________________________________________
Get a FREE computer virus scan online from McAfee.

http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

__________________________________
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The New Yahoo! Shopping – with improved product search
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From: “Tommy” <tgoodson7@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogainesville
Date: October 16, 2003 at 9:26:27 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Douglass Greene:  A good article; love it!!  I know it is factual.  I was lucky enough to have Eric Taub
treat my 23 year Grandson about 3 or 4 years ago.  I am a wild enthusiastic convert to Ibogaine
therapy.  It is the greatest thing discovered since the discovery of the Polio vaccine.

My Grandson had been hooked since he was 12 years.  However, the after care is absolutely
essential.  My Grandson is serving sentence for transgressions committed over a period of time
covering several years prior to the treatment.  He did relapse several times but he never suffered
withdrawal symptoms again.  he is really sold on Ibogaine having been through several rehab. clinics which failed to serve him.

I think the recidivism rate for all Rehab. clinics combined is somewhere between 85% and 99% or
no better then the recidivism rate of prison.  But the PROHIBITIONIST continue to espouse justice
dept. route for drug offenses.

I think the recidivism rate for Ibogaine therapy is somewhere less than 25% and with continued
comprehensive rehab. therapy it could be as little as 2% to about  6%!!!   Having fought this battle
for 8 or 10 years I don’t think there anything else in the world that can come close to the
effectiveness of IBOGAINE.

I couldn’t be a stronger advocate for IBOGAINE therapy.

Tommy Goodson

—– Original Message —–
From: Douglas Greene
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2003 10:39 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] Ibogainesville

I wrote an article about Eric Taub’s work in Gainesville that was recently posted to his site:

http://www.ibeginagain.org/articles/ibogainesville.shtml

Feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Doug

From: “Brad Fisher” <brad.fisher@guaranty.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Ibogainesville
Date: October 16, 2003 at 2:00:27 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thank you to Douglas Greene for his informative and educational article regarding Ibogaine in Gainesville.
bf

—–Original Message—–
From: Douglas Greene [mailto:douggreene@earthlink.net]
Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2003 8:40 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Ibogainesville

I wrote an article about Eric Taub’s work in Gainesville that was recently posted to his site:

http://www.ibeginagain.org/articles/ibogainesville.shtml

Feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Doug

From: Douglas Greene <douggreene@earthlink.net>
Subject: [ibogaine] Ibogainesville
Date: October 16, 2003 at 11:39:54 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I wrote an article about Eric Taub’s work in Gainesville that was recently posted to his site:

http://www.ibeginagain.org/articles/ibogainesville.shtml

Feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Doug

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Ibogaine sessions Drug Policy Alliance
Date: October 15, 2003 at 10:22:22 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The Agenda for the 2003 DPA Biennial Conference Ibogaine sessions are now
available.

http://www.drugpolicy.org/events/dpa2003/agenda/agenda_sat.cfm

See http://www.ibogaine.org/dpa.html for ibogaine details

Howard

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] this would be funny, but….
Date: October 15, 2003 at 9:57:25 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

jcaraso wrote >I’m sorry but I don’t find this as funny as the two of you.<

Hey, cheer up jcaraso@hotmail , I wrote “WOULD BE FUNNY IF…”
It’s kinda hard going through life letting myself get so utterly bumbed
out constantly by all the prohibitionist bullshit out there, so I try not to
get utterly bumbed out by it all. I read/hear/experience prohibitionist
bullshit all day every day, and if I didn’t occasionally laugh at it, I’d
drive myself crazy. Pathetic doesn’t even begin to cover how utterly idiotic
and simply wrong I find most (if not all- but I’ve not examined the site in
minute detail, getting to repulsed to do so) of the Narconon info is, and as
I noted, it’s too bad so many people are buying its crap, which makes it
even un-funnier.
Oh, and there’s no need for you to apologize for not joining in the
laughter with me (were I actually laughing at this one, which I’m not, as
noted already a couple of times).
I myself though try my damnedest to remember what Paul Krassner once
wrote- It’s all funny. I’m sure god in whatever form it chooses is laughing
ruefully at us on a daily basis for getting ourselves so worked up that we
resort of killing each other and the planet off instead of remembering to
laugh and enjoy the limited time we have here.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: <jcaraso@hushmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 8:03 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] this would be funny, but….

I’m sorry but I don’t find this as funny as the two of you. Their entire
site is filled with complete crap about drugs and their effects and they
pass this off as truth. The ibogaine, marijuana and hallucinogen entries
as pathetic. No matter how many people here dont like the 12 steps you
are not greeted by this kind of outright untruth when loading any aa
or na site. You’d have to go to the dea web site to find anything so
full of shit.

Sorry I am not laughing the narconon site should be blown off the net.

On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 20:27:52 -0700 Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Curtis wrote in his usually bright and sunny way:

Now for other news, awareness of ibogaine is growing. Narconon
has added
it right to the front of their site as a dangerous mind control
drug
;-)<

(Curtis, I usually enjoy your points and perspectives, just to say)

So after taking your “advise” and checking out the NARCONON website,

I post
the following:

(oh, btw, why are so many people here suddenly letting loose on
Daniel
Pinchbeck? What’d he do that some people think was wrong? I must
have missed
something. Thanks for any info.)
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2003 11:05 PM
Subject: [drugwar] this would be funny, but….

HI all,
Has anyone else ever gone and actually read through the NARCONON
website?
The following little tidbits would be really very funny if
it weren’t
for the fact that people are buying into the crap.

“One reason many marijuana addicts can go without using for a
week or more
is due to this slow breakdown of cannabinols, the oily toxins
in
marijuana.”

Egad.
Peace,
Preston

http://www.detox-narconon.org/marijuana-vancouver.html
Marijuana Addiction:
Sometimes a teen experiences the numbing effects of pot, and tries
to
escape
reality for a few hours. Successful escape from reality means
repeat
marijuana use. This leads to addiction. More and more kids are
hooked and
addicted to marijuana effects every day. About 500 people, usually
kids,
will try drugs for the first time everyday in Canada. Dealers
and
marijuana
drug pushers and promoters lie to kids and their clients when
they say
marijuana is an herb, not a drug. Dope promoters need to keep
people using
drugs long enough to get them addicted. Once addicted to pot,
these
‘clients’ can be made into dealers, growers, or drug promoters
and
pushers.
The way dealers achieve this is to use irrelevant information
to hide
their
true intent: greed and oblivion.
Marijuana Stays in the Body for years:
Marijuana will very slowly be broken down by the body while in
the blood
system. This usually takes about 30 days. One reason many marijuana
addicts
can go without using for a week or more is due to this slow breakdown
of
cannabinols, the oily toxins in marijuana. Marijuana toxins store
in the
body fat and other tissue due to the fat soluble qualities of
these
cannabinols. Marijuana residues get caught in the brain tissue.
These
toxins
create chemical imbalances, nutrient depletion and cravings for
the drug
years later.
To learn more on how we can help you end your addiction and how
we can
aleviate the discomfort of drug withdrawal, Call us now on our
toll free
number.
TALK to a Narconon Counselor Now
1-866-266-6616

and check out what they’ve got to say about ibogaine:

“The drug induces a state similar to what hypnotists, psychiatrists
and
brainwashers induce onto their subjects when attempting to wipe
out past
behavior patterns and creating new ones.”

Doesn’t this sound alot like Longterm Residential Treatment facilities?
Sorta like, errr, NARCONON?

http://www.detox-narconon.org/Ibogaine-effects.html
Iboga Scrambling the Mind:
Withdrawing addicts with Ibogaine is dangerous for several reasons.
The
drug
induces a state similar to what hypnotists, psychiatrists and
brainwashers
induce onto their subjects when attempting to wipe out past behavior
patterns and creating new ones. The past or future behavior of
an addict
treated with ibogaine is not predictable. Brainwashing people
with drugs
is
not therapy. Brainwashing is the use of drugs, pain and suggestion
(hypnosis) to wipe out past behavior and memories. Behavior
modification
is
attempted while the addict is totally vulnerable due to intoxication
from
ibogaine. “Therapists” giving someone ibogaine, can knowingly
or
unknowingly
lay in hypnotic commands. Drug addiction itself can be created
by a sort
of
hypnotic command to “use” again while the addict is on drugs.”

Peace,
Preston

<]=————————————————————-
———-=[

[           Moderated by: Preston Peet |
.drugwar.com           ]
|          -=/[ To Subscribe: drugwar-subscribe@mindvox.com
]/=-
|
|             To Unsubscribe: drugwar-unsubscribe@mindvox.com
|
[   DrugWar List in Digest Format:
ugwar-digest-subscribe@mindvox.com   ]

<]=————————————————————-
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From: Abe Becker <abe_becker@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: [ibogaine] mindvox loads instantly?
Date: October 15, 2003 at 8:49:45 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Can’t let this one pass. Mindvox loads instantly?

Mindvox is the only site I’ve ever found with seperete
css files for the Sun, other then Sun’s maybe. It
loads perfectly on every browser I’ve ever tried on
every computer. This isn’t because its valid W3C code,
it’s not. You load mindvox into a W3C checker and it
will find 800 invalid use of codes.

You have written the source by hand, there is no
generator from adobe or macromedia, you have spent
some insane amount of time making it work perfectly on
everything especially unix machines.

The one part all of you forgot is that it doesnt work
at all over a modem. Mindvox is another way of saying
fuck you if youre on a modem. You need dsl or a lan to
get it to go at all. I save the main page and it is
coming in at nearly 400k and thats without the
shockwave flash.

Mindvox loads instantly, drug prohibtion is ended and
world peace has broken out. They will all be coming at
about the same time.

I know this has been mentioned 200 times on the vox
list and I know the answer is ‘then dont load the
site, you don’t need to to use the lists’  mindvox is
another way of saying nuke bandwidth.

________________________________________________________________________
Want to chat instantly with your online friends?  Get the FREE Yahoo!
Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk

From: <jcaraso@hushmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] this would be funny, but….
Date: October 15, 2003 at 8:03:31 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m sorry but I don’t find this as funny as the two of you. Their entire
site is filled with complete crap about drugs and their effects and they
pass this off as truth. The ibogaine, marijuana and hallucinogen entries
as pathetic. No matter how many people here dont like the 12 steps you
are not greeted by this kind of outright untruth when loading any aa
or na site. You’d have to go to the dea web site to find anything so
full of shit.

Sorry I am not laughing the narconon site should be blown off the net.

On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 20:27:52 -0700 Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Curtis wrote in his usually bright and sunny way:

Now for other news, awareness of ibogaine is growing. Narconon
has added
it right to the front of their site as a dangerous mind control
drug
;-)<

(Curtis, I usually enjoy your points and perspectives, just to say)

So after taking your “advise” and checking out the NARCONON website,

I post
the following:

(oh, btw, why are so many people here suddenly letting loose on
Daniel
Pinchbeck? What’d he do that some people think was wrong? I must
have missed
something. Thanks for any info.)
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2003 11:05 PM
Subject: [drugwar] this would be funny, but….

HI all,
Has anyone else ever gone and actually read through the NARCONON
website?
The following little tidbits would be really very funny if
it weren’t
for the fact that people are buying into the crap.

“One reason many marijuana addicts can go without using for a
week or more
is due to this slow breakdown of cannabinols, the oily toxins
in
marijuana.”

Egad.
Peace,
Preston

http://www.detox-narconon.org/marijuana-vancouver.html
Marijuana Addiction:
Sometimes a teen experiences the numbing effects of pot, and tries
to
escape
reality for a few hours. Successful escape from reality means
repeat
marijuana use. This leads to addiction. More and more kids are
hooked and
addicted to marijuana effects every day. About 500 people, usually
kids,
will try drugs for the first time everyday in Canada. Dealers
and
marijuana
drug pushers and promoters lie to kids and their clients when
they say
marijuana is an herb, not a drug. Dope promoters need to keep
people using
drugs long enough to get them addicted. Once addicted to pot,
these
‘clients’ can be made into dealers, growers, or drug promoters
and
pushers.
The way dealers achieve this is to use irrelevant information
to hide
their
true intent: greed and oblivion.
Marijuana Stays in the Body for years:
Marijuana will very slowly be broken down by the body while in
the blood
system. This usually takes about 30 days. One reason many marijuana
addicts
can go without using for a week or more is due to this slow breakdown
of
cannabinols, the oily toxins in marijuana. Marijuana toxins store
in the
body fat and other tissue due to the fat soluble qualities of
these
cannabinols. Marijuana residues get caught in the brain tissue.
These
toxins
create chemical imbalances, nutrient depletion and cravings for
the drug
years later.
To learn more on how we can help you end your addiction and how
we can
aleviate the discomfort of drug withdrawal, Call us now on our
toll free
number.
TALK to a Narconon Counselor Now
1-866-266-6616

and check out what they’ve got to say about ibogaine:

“The drug induces a state similar to what hypnotists, psychiatrists
and
brainwashers induce onto their subjects when attempting to wipe
out past
behavior patterns and creating new ones.”

Doesn’t this sound alot like Longterm Residential Treatment facilities?
Sorta like, errr, NARCONON?

http://www.detox-narconon.org/Ibogaine-effects.html
Iboga Scrambling the Mind:
Withdrawing addicts with Ibogaine is dangerous for several reasons.
The
drug
induces a state similar to what hypnotists, psychiatrists and
brainwashers
induce onto their subjects when attempting to wipe out past behavior
patterns and creating new ones. The past or future behavior of
an addict
treated with ibogaine is not predictable. Brainwashing people
with drugs
is
not therapy. Brainwashing is the use of drugs, pain and suggestion
(hypnosis) to wipe out past behavior and memories. Behavior modification
is
attempted while the addict is totally vulnerable due to intoxication
from
ibogaine. “Therapists” giving someone ibogaine, can knowingly
or
unknowingly
lay in hypnotic commands. Drug addiction itself can be created
by a sort
of
hypnotic command to “use” again while the addict is on drugs.”

Peace,
Preston

<]=————————————————————-
———-=[

[           Moderated by: Preston Peet |
.drugwar.com           ]
|          -=/[ To Subscribe: drugwar-subscribe@mindvox.com
]/=-
|
|             To Unsubscribe: drugwar-unsubscribe@mindvox.com
|
[   DrugWar List in Digest Format:
ugwar-digest-subscribe@mindvox.com   ]

<]=————————————————————-
———-=[

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FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [drugwar] We are awarE
Date: October 15, 2003 at 7:28:29 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Whatever you did to the servers this is the first time in over 6 months
that mindvox loads instantly. Keep doing it 🙂

Don’t feel bad Patrick, you’re still legendary fuckups of the first
degree. Your at the very top of the list of people who should be rich
but pissed it all away. You alsohave the honor of being the only person
who wrote customer service replies that made it into the hall of honor
in alt.talk bizarre. You can’t find customer service like that anymore
:)Isnt that better then being rich? 😉

http://www.mindvox.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/MindVoxUI.woa/wa/staticpage%3fpagename=Sacred/Elves.html

Welcome back. Mindvox loads fast I am surprised :)You may want to open
it or at least update the news, the last time you did that was in 2002,
it’s almost the end of 2003 now 😉

.:vector:.

— “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> wrote:
On [Wed, Oct 15, 2003 at 02:03:21PM -0400], [Elmer Elevator] wrote:

| mindvox haiku
|
| we seek to improve
| our modest cottage in cyberspace

We seek to keep the lifeboat(s) from tanking as well.

| we spend great sums
| on tomorrow’s hi-tek gizmos

That wuz yesterday.

| we hire brilliant nerds
| they work around the clock

We tried that, it didn’t work out.  All the brilliant nerds we had
fell
pretty much into the same category.  “I woke up early today, it was
8pm.
I made it into the office by midnight.  I got a lot done.  I’ve
advanced 4
levels in Quake III Arena!”

Didja fix the terminal server?

“Fuck that, who cares about the annoying stupid users.  By the way,
I’ve
just been sentenced.  I’m gonna be taking a 3-5 year vacation.”

| picking their noses and drinking Jolt Cola

Actually, the main prerequisite when we moved to larger offices was
having
adequate ventillation so the programmers could keep smoking pot all
day.

“Is that a bong on his desk!?!?!?”

Uhm, no, its actually impressionist sculpture.

Those were the stable people.  The unStable people were bangin’ dope
and
speedballs.  But that’s okay, because we were MANAGEMENT and thus,
not
required to actually do anything, ever, at all.

Except spend money.  God it was beautiful.  I loved dot.com.

| speaking incomprehensible jargon

Huh?!?!?!?!?

| then with bosom swollen with pride
| we press START

Actually we hit STOP around 1997.  What’s here now is the aftermath;
sorta
dancing in the ruins.  Eventually I’m sure we’ll figure out some
clever
way to turn all this into something other than an extremely
time-consuming
and expensive hobby.

Or not.  Check back right ’round 2010.

| and here is what happens:

Exactly!

Patrick

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping – with improved product search
http://shopping.yahoo.com

From: jenkster@resonance.org
Subject: [ibogaine] CSAM Conference Recording
Date: October 15, 2003 at 1:31:41 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello Everyone,

Last week there was a conference by the California Society for Addiction
Medicine. Several of the presentations, by speakers including Deborah Mash
and Stanley Glick, were about ibogaine. A recording of these presentations
is available as MP3 files at this link:

http://www.puzzlepiece.org/ibogaine/csam/csam.html

Let me know if you need smaller (but lower quality) or higher quality
(but much larger) sound files.

Yours,

Chris

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: [drugwar] We are awarE
Date: October 15, 2003 at 2:55:42 PM EDT
To: Elmer Elevator <bobmer.javanet@rcn.com>
Cc: drugwar@mindvox.com, ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Wed, Oct 15, 2003 at 02:03:21PM -0400], [Elmer Elevator] wrote:

| mindvox haiku
|
| we seek to improve
| our modest cottage in cyberspace

We seek to keep the lifeboat(s) from tanking as well.

| we spend great sums
| on tomorrow’s hi-tek gizmos

That wuz yesterday.

| we hire brilliant nerds
| they work around the clock

We tried that, it didn’t work out.  All the brilliant nerds we had fell
pretty much into the same category.  “I woke up early today, it was 8pm.
I made it into the office by midnight.  I got a lot done.  I’ve advanced 4
levels in Quake III Arena!”

Didja fix the terminal server?

“Fuck that, who cares about the annoying stupid users.  By the way, I’ve
just been sentenced.  I’m gonna be taking a 3-5 year vacation.”

| picking their noses and drinking Jolt Cola

Actually, the main prerequisite when we moved to larger offices was having
adequate ventillation so the programmers could keep smoking pot all day.

“Is that a bong on his desk!?!?!?”

Uhm, no, its actually impressionist sculpture.

Those were the stable people.  The unStable people were bangin’ dope and
speedballs.  But that’s okay, because we were MANAGEMENT and thus, not
required to actually do anything, ever, at all.

Except spend money.  God it was beautiful.  I loved dot.com.

| speaking incomprehensible jargon

Huh?!?!?!?!?

| then with bosom swollen with pride
| we press START

Actually we hit STOP around 1997.  What’s here now is the aftermath; sorta
dancing in the ruins.  Eventually I’m sure we’ll figure out some clever
way to turn all this into something other than an extremely time-consuming
and expensive hobby.

Or not.  Check back right ’round 2010.

| and here is what happens:

Exactly!

Patrick

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] We are awarE
Date: October 15, 2003 at 1:27:48 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@Mindvox.com, drugwar@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yes, yes, YeS, yEs;

I know, I fucking know, I know I KNOW I KNOW…  Everything is on fire and
falling apart in 5,000 places.  We are AWARE.  It is being reset.  I can
only do 500 things all at once, and all things will be EVEN BETTER than
PERFECT within roughly 6 minutes, hours, days, centuries … presupposing
that Bruce doesn’t spill coffee all over the rack.

Whoopsie.  Uhm, anybody want a slightly used Sunfire440r…?  They’ve
dropped in price just a lil’  I think we paid $200K in the stone ages.
They’re goin’ for roughly $12 dollars and change on Ebay right now.  “With
the collapse of dot.bomb, we now have, roughly 500 tons of surplus Sun
equipment!!!!!”

As you were,

Patrick

From: Ismokedmt@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] OT: Friday, Free Tommy Chong after film premiere of “Potluck”
Date: October 14, 2003 at 11:49:17 PM EDT
To: dana@cures-not-wars.org, ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: rlake@mapinc.org, dansmith@clark.net, lensman@stardrive.org, hward@wineshopper.com, DDanforbes@aol.com, daniel@breakingopenthehead.com, IMDJam@cs.com, gbekkum@mediaone.net, e-merrill2@ti.com, morpheal@bserv.com, maruta@wco.com, brumac@compuserve.com, yokatta@oxy.edu, kklingon@cwcom.net, dewatson@sunflower.com, CloudRider@aol.com, JagdishM@aol.com, phylegyas@hotmail.com, ibogalab@hotmail.com, zentarot@hotmail.com, pdr@echonyc.com, Stews@radiks.net, foozleman@worldnet.att.net, bmasel@tds.net, heff01@email.msn.com, kingfelix@mediaone.net, luxefair@bellsouth.net, cardboard_dada@yahoo.com, prophets@maui.net, m.pilkington@virgin.net, PCLARK@JJHILL.ORG, delaneyw@shasta.com, ejahn@barnard.edu, derlock@mailexcite.com, andre.welling@db.com, mitchelcohen@mindspring.com, mutanex@aloha.net, nick.sandberg@virgin.net, hempjack@earthlink.net, axiom@greatmystery.org, dancegroove@nyc.rr.com, warcrycinema@yahoo.com, jstatzer@qtm.net, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

so sorry for piggybacking on danah’s email, there’s really no solid excuse (but i did remove anyone outside the country)
…but i know a lot of you and there’s little time.. if anyone wants to get in free to our Free Tommy Chong alternate afterparty friday down the block from the official High Times “Potluck” afterparty at Tobacco Road, just go here and       say “Dana Beal” to Pam at the downstairs entrance and you will be comped and then serviced by belly dancers, some of them female 🙂  then you can go back to Tobacco Road and wreak (more) havoc there !
this party isn’t necessarily sanctioned by Dana, he’ll probably chew me out next time he sees me.
here’s the link to the event, it’s downstairs be sure to walk past the moroccans and belly dancers upstairs if you can
www.brainmachines.com/ganjatron.html
Protesters absolutely fucking welcome!
i am deleting your email now.  please send hate mail straight to me 🙂
jeff@brainmachines.com

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] bl1p
Date: October 15, 2003 at 12:53:04 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com, drugwar@mindvox.com, vox@mindvox.com, crashtestdummies@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Our rack has moved another location wid’ a lotz mo’ bandwidth n’ shit.

It will probably take your DNS several hours to refresh and be able to
find mindvox and phantom again.  By roughly midnight EST everything should
once again be resolving for everyone.

Thank youz berry muchly.

Patrick

p.s., this means that if you attempt to mail into the lists or load any of
the sites RIGHT NOW; it may not resolve for you.  This is okay, the mail
will queue up and release as soon as your DNS finds us again.

From: “Randy Hencken” <randyhencken@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Viceland article
Date: October 15, 2003 at 10:35:21 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You are making gross assumptions and you don’t understand what it costs to operate a business.

Randy.

From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Viceland article
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 22:27:00 EDT

Correction Please. I’m sorry,
Pinchbecks article states 200 patients at $2800 and then $600 for follow up.

Thats still alot of greenbacks or pesos or whatever.

_________________________________________________________________
Get a FREE computer virus scan online from McAfee. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Supreme Court Declines to Hear Government on Medical Marijuana
Date: October 14, 2003 at 11:24:07 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

on 10/15/03 12:18 AM, DPAlliance at alerts@actioncenter.drugpolicy.org wrote:

**Triumph for Drug Policy Alliance and Drug Policy Reform Advocates

** Supreme Court Declines to Hear Government on Medical Marijuana

In a major victory for doctors, patients and the Drug Policy Alliance, the
highest court in the U.S. has declined to hear the federal government’s
case
against doctors’ rights to recommend medical marijuana. On Tuesday the
Supreme
Court said that it would not review a lower court’s decision to uphold a
doctor’s right to recommend the drug to patients. This means that the
federal
government is still prohibited from threatening physicians who recommend,
or
even discuss, medical marijuana use with their patients. Already the
decision
has drawn a tidal wave of media seeking comment from the Drug Policy
Alliance.
Dan Abrahamson, Director of Legal Affairs, today spoke with reporters from
the
New York Times, USA Today, LA Times and dozens of other media outlets.

The decision is an important success for the Alliance. In November 1996, we
initiated the legal case against the federal government on behalf of
California’s doctors and patients. The Alliance recruited the physician and
patient plaintiffs, hired the ACLU and a private law firm as co-counsel,
and
helped fund the expensive class action lawsuit throughout its seven-year
lifespan. Together we successfully prevented the government from punishing
physicians who recommended medical use of marijuana to sick and dying
patients. In October 2002, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit
unanimously upheld doctors’ free speech rights to recommend or approve
marijuana as treatment. The Bush Administration appealed the decision to
the
U.S. Supreme Court, but the High Court has refused to disturb the lower
court’s decision.

Both Presidents Clinton and George W. Bush have tried to stop medical
marijuana in states that have approved the drug by threatening to remove
the
license of any doctor who even mentions medical marijuana to a patient. As
a
result of the Supreme Court victory, the federal government’s intrusion
into
state-level medical marijuana policies has been dealt a big setback and
states
without medical marijuana laws are given a green light to enact laws
similar
to those upheld in Alaska, Arizona, California, Colorado, Hawaii, Maine,
Maryland, Nevada, Oregon and Washington.

Medical marijuana is proven to be effective in treating various serious
illnesses and is the most widely supported issue in drug policy reform. The
Alliance will continue to lead efforts to secure the rights of doctors to
recommend and patients to use this drug.

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Sorry–that’s East 35th St!
Date: October 14, 2003 at 10:40:35 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: Richard Lake <rlake@mapinc.org>, dansmith@clark.net, lensman@stardrive.org, hward@wineshopper.com, DDanforbes@aol.com, daniel@breakingopenthehead.com, Mark@k-dunn.freeserve.co.uk, IMDJam@cs.com, gbekkum@mediaone.net, Gary@osborn-day.freeserve.co.uk, gschwart@u.arizona.edu, e-merrill2@ti.com, “Bob Ezergailis” <morpheal@bserv.com>, “cynthia ford” <maruta@wco.com>, “G. G. Ford” <swimp@shaw.ca>, <brumac@compuserve.com>, <yokatta@oxy.edu>, <kklingon@cwcom.net>, <cyrano@aqua.ocn.ne.jp>, “Adrian” <afme@ihug.co.nz>, dewatson@sunflower.com, CloudRider@aol.com, JagdishM@aol.com, phylegyas@hotmail.com, schwann@webtrance.co.za, ibogalab@hotmail.com, zentarot@hotmail.com, Paul DeRienzo <pdr@echonyc.com>, Stews@radiks.net, foozleman@worldnet.att.net, bmasel@tds.net, heff01@email.msn.com, kingfelix@mediaone.net, luxefair@bellsouth.net, cardboard_dada@yahoo.com, prophets@maui.net, m.pilkington@virgin.net, PCLARK@JJHILL.ORG, delaneyw@shasta.com, Edward Jahn <ejahn@barnard.edu>, derlock@mailexcite.com, “Andre Welling” <andre.welling@db.com>, Mitchel Cohen <mitchelcohen@mindspring.com>, “MUTANEX Command HAWAI’I” <mutanex@aloha.net>, Nick Sandberg <nick.sandberg@virgin.net>, George Clayton Johnson <hempjack@earthlink.net>, axiom@greatmystery.org, dancegroove@nyc.rr.com, “warcry@indymedia.org” <warcrycinema@yahoo.com>, “Jay Statzer” <jstatzer@qtm.net>, “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Special 5 hour follow-on Forum, one day after the Ibogaine workshop
at the DPA Conference in E. Rutherford

At the Unitarian Church, 40 East 35th St (between Park and Madison
Aves), 3 to 8 pm:

“Can an Entheogen be Accepted as a De-tox in a predominantly 12 Step
Environment?”

Featuring Dr. Ken Alper, Patrick Kroupa, Howard Lotsof, Daniel
Pinchbeck, Sandra Karpetas, Narda Narvaez, Rommel Washington and
other special guests to be announced.

A workshop of treatment providers debating entheogen enthusiasts,
followed by a political roundtable devoted to getting Ibogaine access
through the New York State Legislature.

$20 for adults, $10 for students, $5 for homeless/addicts.

Contact Dana at 212-677-7180/4899. (My email is not working for
incoming messages.)

From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Viceland article
Date: October 14, 2003 at 10:27:00 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Correction Please. I’m sorry,
Pinchbecks article states 200 patients at $2800 and then $600 for follow up.

Thats still alot of greenbacks or pesos or whatever.

From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Viceland article
Date: October 14, 2003 at 10:17:57 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The doc sounds like a cool dude yet I think I read that he treated some  400 patients.( I could be wrong about this #)

400X $2500=$10,000,000

Not for fame maybe, but the profit part?

Maybe, someone can clue me in on this one.

If Hazleton can charge $30,000 why not $2500 for something that may actually work.

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] One Day Ibogaine Forum Sunday, Nov. 9
Date: October 14, 2003 at 9:54:18 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: Richard Lake <rlake@mapinc.org>, dansmith@clark.net, lensman@stardrive.org, hward@wineshopper.com, DDanforbes@aol.com, daniel@breakingopenthehead.com, Mark@k-dunn.freeserve.co.uk, IMDJam@cs.com, gbekkum@mediaone.net, Gary@osborn-day.freeserve.co.uk, gschwart@u.arizona.edu, e-merrill2@ti.com, “Bob Ezergailis” <morpheal@bserv.com>, “cynthia ford” <maruta@wco.com>, “G. G. Ford” <swimp@shaw.ca>, <brumac@compuserve.com>, <yokatta@oxy.edu>, <kklingon@cwcom.net>, <cyrano@aqua.ocn.ne.jp>, “Adrian” <afme@ihug.co.nz>, dewatson@sunflower.com, CloudRider@aol.com, JagdishM@aol.com, phylegyas@hotmail.com, schwann@webtrance.co.za, ibogalab@hotmail.com, zentarot@hotmail.com, Paul DeRienzo <pdr@echonyc.com>, Stews@radiks.net, foozleman@worldnet.att.net, bmasel@tds.net, heff01@email.msn.com, kingfelix@mediaone.net, luxefair@bellsouth.net, cardboard_dada@yahoo.com, prophets@maui.net, m.pilkington@virgin.net, PCLARK@JJHILL.ORG, delaneyw@shasta.com, Edward Jahn <ejahn@barnard.edu>, derlock@mailexcite.com, “Andre Welling” <andre.welling@db.com>, Mitchel Cohen <mitchelcohen@mindspring.com>, “MUTANEX Command HAWAI’I” <mutanex@aloha.net>, Nick Sandberg <nick.sandberg@virgin.net>, George Clayton Johnson <hempjack@earthlink.net>, axiom@greatmystery.org, dancegroove@nyc.rr.com, “warcry@indymedia.org” <warcrycinema@yahoo.com>, “Jay Statzer” <jstatzer@qtm.net>, “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Special 5 hour follow-on Forum, one day after the Ibogaine workshop
at the DPA Conference in E. Rutherford

At the Unitarian Church, 40 East 30th St (between Park and Madison
Aves), 3 to 8 pm:

“Can an Entheogen be Accepted as a De-tox in a predominantly 12 Step
Environment?”

Featuring Dr. Ken Alper, Patrick Kroupa, Howard Lotsof, Daniel
Pinchbeck, Sandra Karpetas, Narda Narvaez, Rommel Washington and
other special guests to be announced.

A workshop of treatment providers debating entheogen enthusiasts,
followed by a political roundtable devoted to getting Ibogaine access
through the New York State Legislature.

$20 for adults, $10 for students, $5 for homeless/addicts.

Contact Dana at 212-677-7180/4899. (My email is not working for
incoming messages.)

From: “Randy Hencken” <randyhencken@hotmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Viceland article
Date: October 14, 2003 at 9:37:38 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I am writing on behalf of the Ibogaine Association. Gideon’s article is appalling and offensive as many of you already realize.  All of Dr. Polanco’s quotes are fabricated.  Dr. Polanco never said “I’m a big fan of the fight-fire-with-fire mentality,” or “Without these pills, the pain from withdrawal would lead to some terrible, and potentially lethal, hallucinations.” Or “It is not a miracle drug, but it is a very promising one.”

We occasionally do administer opiates to some methadone patients in the days prior to the treatment. This allows the methadone to lose its grip on the opiate receptors and keeps our clients comfortable in the interim.  Opiate administration at the Ibogaine Association is rare.

Gideon crashed our treatment center virtually uninvited and spent barely 36 hours here.  The session that he was here for are not reflective of our normal affairs, we were being documented for Daniel and Steve’s upcoming film.  Gideon didn’t do his research and doesn’t paint a fair picture of our treatment.  He couldn’t even get our name correct.  All four patients that he met were administered the treatment for free for participating in the film, not $2500.

We have started administering our treatments in a fully equipped hospital (we have a few dark quiet rooms, so it is not like tripping in a noisy, bright hospital bed).  Patients then go to our house to recuperate post treatment.

I feel that the largest indignity of this viceland article is the malicious attacks on Dr. Polanco.  The doctor does not do this work for fame or fortune, despite what many people may think.   As for the future we do not know if we will be able to continue doing this treatment due to prohibitive costs, but we are not ready to give up yet. We feel that we have a responsibility to continue to be available to the patients that are contacting us every day.

Randy Hencken
Program Coordinator, Ibogaine Association

_________________________________________________________________
Concerned that messages may bounce because your Hotmail account has exceeded its 2MB storage limit? Get Hotmail Extra Storage!         http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es

From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] this would be funny, but….
Date: October 14, 2003 at 7:07:10 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Nothing in particular that I know of. I liked breaking open the head
too, it was a fun read. It was just very funny seeing him writing hate
mail to that mag about how unaccurate the article is. It’s very inaccurate
but it isn’t like pinchbeck has anything more accurate to say about ibogaine
either. The facts he does list are usually wrong names, wrong dates,
or just missing completely. He is the Dr. Polanco promotional service.
Nothing wrong with that, he likes Mexico. My only comment was that he
either doesn’t know very much about ibogaine in general or doesn’t want
to know and only writes commercials promoting what he wants to promote.
Which is exactly the same thing the Vice article did. The only difference
is the Vice writer isn’t buying the whole hippy saving the world package
and reported a much different version of what he saw there.

Peace out,
Curtis

On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 20:27:52 -0700 Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Curtis wrote in his usually bright and sunny way:

Now for other news, awareness of ibogaine is growing. Narconon
has added
it right to the front of their site as a dangerous mind control
drug
;-)<

(Curtis, I usually enjoy your points and perspectives, just to say)

So after taking your “advise” and checking out the NARCONON website,

I post
the following:

(oh, btw, why are so many people here suddenly letting loose on
Daniel
Pinchbeck? What’d he do that some people think was wrong? I must
have missed
something. Thanks for any info.)
Peace,
Preston

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

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From: deartheo@ziplip.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Re:war$] this would be funny, but….
Date: October 13, 2003 at 8:38:19 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

just laughing about how absurd it all is, like asking “are you really
serious?” to absurdity as common place as daylight savings time.  I’m not really
concerned as much about the short term effects of all this but am quite
concerned as to avoiding as much as possible the long term effects of this
situation.

“I will raise my voice
I will stand up and
look you in the eye…
…you can tell me to go to hell-
and I will tell you ‘this examination is over'”

From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] this would be funny, but….
Date: October 13, 2003 at 8:13:23 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Marijuana Stays in the Body for years:
Marijuana will very slowly be broken down by the body while in the blood
system. This usually takes about 30 days.

hmmm, did i miss something or is this a contraddiction?

~g

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping – with improved product search
http://shopping.yahoo.com

From: sara119@xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] this would be funny, but….
Date: October 13, 2003 at 3:27:27 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“Narconon” is missing the point that there is no one way that fit in
everyone, the same is with AA and NA or other one way thinking systems.

Your vision will become clear only when YOU can look into your own heart.
Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes.

– Carl Jung

The universal laws are available to all who wish to
know them. Discover them! Love them! Apply them in your personal life and
affairs.
We must go beyond our senses, beyond the physical.
we just can’t see it with our five senses.  .  Iboga unfold the secret
for understanding our Divine Origin and Purpose of
Existence.
yet
because we are human and still have work to do on ourselves, we are still
feeling
the comfort of the old familiar ways and patterns. So the question is now,
how do we
keep moving forward without slipping back? There is no right or wrong way
in this
and certainly re-visiting past emotions, challenges and memories will
still be a
part of our journey and experience.

Sara,

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] this would be funny, but….
Date: October 12, 2003 at 11:27:52 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Curtis wrote in his usually bright and sunny way:

Now for other news, awareness of ibogaine is growing. Narconon has added
it right to the front of their site as a dangerous mind control drug
;-)<

(Curtis, I usually enjoy your points and perspectives, just to say)

So after taking your “advise” and checking out the NARCONON website, I post
the following:

(oh, btw, why are so many people here suddenly letting loose on Daniel
Pinchbeck? What’d he do that some people think was wrong? I must have missed
something. Thanks for any info.)
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2003 11:05 PM
Subject: [drugwar] this would be funny, but….

HI all,
Has anyone else ever gone and actually read through the NARCONON
website?
The following little tidbits would be really very funny if it weren’t
for the fact that people are buying into the crap.

“One reason many marijuana addicts can go without using for a week or more
is due to this slow breakdown of cannabinols, the oily toxins in
marijuana.”

Egad.
Peace,
Preston

http://www.detox-narconon.org/marijuana-vancouver.html
Marijuana Addiction:
Sometimes a teen experiences the numbing effects of pot, and tries to
escape
reality for a few hours. Successful escape from reality means repeat
marijuana use. This leads to addiction. More and more kids are hooked and
addicted to marijuana effects every day. About 500 people, usually kids,
will try drugs for the first time everyday in Canada. Dealers and
marijuana
drug pushers and promoters lie to kids and their clients when they say
marijuana is an herb, not a drug. Dope promoters need to keep people using
drugs long enough to get them addicted. Once addicted to pot, these
‘clients’ can be made into dealers, growers, or drug promoters and
pushers.
The way dealers achieve this is to use irrelevant information to hide
their
true intent: greed and oblivion.
Marijuana Stays in the Body for years:
Marijuana will very slowly be broken down by the body while in the blood
system. This usually takes about 30 days. One reason many marijuana
addicts
can go without using for a week or more is due to this slow breakdown of
cannabinols, the oily toxins in marijuana. Marijuana toxins store in the
body fat and other tissue due to the fat soluble qualities of these
cannabinols. Marijuana residues get caught in the brain tissue. These
toxins
create chemical imbalances, nutrient depletion and cravings for the drug
years later.
To learn more on how we can help you end your addiction and how we can
aleviate the discomfort of drug withdrawal, Call us now on our toll free
number.
TALK to a Narconon Counselor Now
1-866-266-6616

and check out what they’ve got to say about ibogaine:

“The drug induces a state similar to what hypnotists, psychiatrists and
brainwashers induce onto their subjects when attempting to wipe out past
behavior patterns and creating new ones.”

Doesn’t this sound alot like Longterm Residential Treatment facilities?
Sorta like, errr, NARCONON?

http://www.detox-narconon.org/Ibogaine-effects.html
Iboga Scrambling the Mind:
Withdrawing addicts with Ibogaine is dangerous for several reasons. The
drug
induces a state similar to what hypnotists, psychiatrists and brainwashers
induce onto their subjects when attempting to wipe out past behavior
patterns and creating new ones. The past or future behavior of an addict
treated with ibogaine is not predictable. Brainwashing people with drugs
is
not therapy. Brainwashing is the use of drugs, pain and suggestion
(hypnosis) to wipe out past behavior and memories. Behavior modification
is
attempted while the addict is totally vulnerable due to intoxication from
ibogaine. “Therapists” giving someone ibogaine, can knowingly or
unknowingly
lay in hypnotic commands. Drug addiction itself can be created by a sort
of
hypnotic command to “use” again while the addict is on drugs.”

Peace,
Preston

<]=———————————————————————–=[

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.drugwar.com           ]
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From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Vice Magazine ibogaine article
Date: October 12, 2003 at 7:03:10 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m sure Mexico isn’t all that bad, I take people for what they do and
say and I’m not inclined to go with the extreme negative that the story
portrayed. It was still funny 😉 Also like was mentioned the funniest
part is pinchbeck writing hate mail to the site, since the story more
or less is exactly pinchbeck material reversed. Instead of missing a
lot of facts and being glowing positive, it missed most of the facts
and was sarcastic and funny. Not too much objective journalism taking
place from either author and yet another case in the pot calling kettle
black series that is so popular on the ibogaine channel we all tune in
to 🙂

Marc I think the morphine and xanax is for the clients before they do
ibogaine. Can’t see it being handed out after or what’s the point?

Now for other news, awareness of ibogaine is growing. Narconon has added
it right to the front of their site as a dangerous mind control drug
😉

http://www.detox-narconon.org/

Peace out,
Curtis

On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 04:10:52 -0700 jcaraso@hushmail.com wrote:
Pinchbeck is a doofus.

http://www.matrixmasters.com/pn/2003conversations/2003pinchbeck.html

Pinchbeck isn’t the problem, he’s some fat terrence mckenna wannabe
who
doesn’t know anything about hard drugs and not much about drugs
of any
kind.

The problem is trying to figure out what is or isn’t real in ibogaine
treatment. What Pinchbeck writes about mexico and what Gideon wrote
are
two totally different experiences.

4 matresses thrown on the floor next to vomit buckets and a broken
EKG
is a little different then the bullshit pinchbeck layers on.

The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. Which is the same
with
everything anyone ever says about ibogaine and that makes it impossible
to figure out anything without actually doing ibogaine.

jc

On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 20:55:08 -0700 Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Another ibogaine article in Vice Magazine.

http://www.viceland.com/issues/v10n8/htdocs/want.php

Funny article, smartass writer. It was fun to read, more fun is
the
flamewar at the end of it between daniel pinchbeck dissing the
writer
and other comments.

I thought it was a fun read and not anymore biased or free of facts
then most ibogaine articles including pinchbeck’s who doesn’t even
spell howard lotsof’s name right in the LA Weekly piece, I think
its
fixed where the same article shows up in the guardian.

I dont know how to say it exactly but pinchbeck flaming the writer
and
getting mad about exactly the same things he does is funny shit
and I
liked breaking open the head its the more I read what he’s writing
now
the more I get the idea hes a total doofus.

.:vector:.

WANT TO GET OFF JUNK?

Get Really Really High

Martin Polanco doesn&#146;t look like a witch doctor. There&#146;s
no bone
through his nose, no grass skirts or animal skins lying around
his
office (however, also absent are any visible medical school diplomas).
Dr. Polanco is just a soft-spoken Mexican twenty-something with
an
angel face full of braces and a bad hairdo. He&#146;s the kind
of guy
you&#146;d
expect to find sweating through a church dance or downloading porn
in
your company&#146;s IT department. One thing he definitely does
not look
like is a very experienced trip master who uses a shitload of tribal
psychedelics to get lower-middle-class American junkies so high
they
never want to touch heroin again.

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

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From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m so happy
Date: October 12, 2003 at 6:54:49 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Congratulations bro. How are you doing and how much of what did you get
unsprung from?

Peace out and stay strong,
Curtis

On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 00:20:25 -0700 =?iso-8859-9?Q?Mustafa_=DDzgi?= <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com>
wrote:
Dear Friends In The Group,
This is the first day that I started  feeling myself strong enough
to write letter. 10 days ago I took iboga (around 1 gram) and there
is no addiction or craving now. I’m totaly free from addiction. First
few days after Iboga, I was feeling little weak but day by day I
become stronger and now I’m totaly ok. Everybody must know that Iboga
is the only treatment that works on me. And I believe I learned many
thing about me from Iboga (total cleaning in my closet). Believe
it or not but I also kicked smoking ciggarettes. Iboga has changed
my way of looking to life and death.  In this age everyone must try
iboga.

PS: endless feeling of indebtednes to Amon, Sera and
Howard

Best Regards
M. Izgi

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

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From: “sandra .” <windforme@graffiti.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Vice Magazine ibogaine article
Date: October 12, 2003 at 4:43:55 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Vice magazine is well known here for being a huge load of crap indeed. Anyone who has
ever read the magazine might attest to this and occasionally they even say so themselves. I
read it because I think it’s funny – in a sarcastic,
we-don’t-give-a-fung-what-you-think-about-anything kinda way. That’s just their style.

I’d say Vice could probably be considered a skater/punk  version of Mad mag. In other words,
definately not intended to be taken too seriously and in fact i think it’s the opposite that they
are trying to acheive anyhow. It is fun to read though and I really like their Tidbits and Do’s
and Don’ts of fashion sections. A couple of issues ago they had these free sick-looking rat
stickers that could be peeled off the front cover. My roomate has them on her journal. They’re
pretty funny…

_______________________________________________
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From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] hypoglycemia, depression and ex-addicts
Date: October 12, 2003 at 4:39:47 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Just curious if any of you ex-addicts experience hypoglycemia (low blood
sugar).

I have it pretty bad and it is linked to depression, which comes and goes for
me which i basically treat with physical excercise and healthy diet when
possible.

I didn’t even know I had it till it was pointed out by somebody, and verified
by my doctor.

some helpful info:

1) Avoidance of sugar, coffee, strong tea, nicotine if possible, refined
carbohydrates, such as white bread, white rice, cakes and sugary drinks, candy
bars, colas, cookies, ice cream sweetish fruits such as bananas, grapefruit,
melons, honey and dates (these fruits may be reintroduced at a later stage in
moderation) etc.
2) High protein + complex carbohydrates snacks every three hours or sooner, to
provide a slow release of glucose, and to prevent the hypoglycemic dip. A high
protein breakfast must be considered the most important meal of the day. Good
sources of proteins are eggs, white meat as in chicken and fish. Eat plenty of
green vegetables and fruits and the more varied the diet the better it is.
3) Supplementation of diet with Anti-stress vitamin B-Complex tablets,
including vitamin B6, B3, B12, chromium, magnesium, zinc + Vitamin C.

source: http://www.hypoglycemia.asn.au/articles/serotonin_connection.html

~gamma

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Vice Magazine ibogaine article
Date: October 12, 2003 at 2:54:30 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Very interesting article. I so want to experience Ibogaine myself!
I don’t get all worked up about a persons opinion who is not an addict or a medical professional, even if he is a journalist.
Remember, he probably doesn’t have any knowledge of pharmacology, legal or illegal.
I think DR Polanco would be irresponsible if he didn’t keep some morphine, Xanax and several other meds on hand in case of a crisis!
Yes, I agree with Doc Polanco, Ibogaine sounds like a very promising drug!
Callie

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Vice Magazine ibogaine article
Date: October 12, 2003 at 2:07:03 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

IMO, this is an irresponsable load of crap.

“For example, the ibogaine treatment still means you
have to go through withdrawal. When I arrived at the
clinic, Dr. Polanco was packing up his medical bag
with the morphine and Xanax he uses to ease the
patients junk-sick pain. As Polanco puts it, “Without
these pills, the pain from withdrawal would lead to
some terrible, and potentially
lethal, hallucinations.”.

If you take ibogaine to detox you do NOT go through
the 90+% or even 100% of the withdrawal for most
people. That is the point of taking ibogaine.

“the pain from withdrawal would lead to some terrible,
and potentially
lethal, hallucinations”

If Polanco said that or wherever the source it is
absolutely wrong, as is (IMO) much of the article.

Brett

— Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com> wrote:
Another ibogaine article in Vice Magazine.

http://www.viceland.com/issues/v10n8/htdocs/want.php

Funny article, smartass writer. It was fun to read,
more fun is the
flamewar at the end of it between daniel pinchbeck
dissing the writer
and other comments.

I thought it was a fun read and not anymore biased
or free of facts
then most ibogaine articles including pinchbeck’s
who doesn’t even
spell howard lotsof’s name right in the LA Weekly
piece, I think its
fixed where the same article shows up in the
guardian.

I dont know how to say it exactly but pinchbeck
flaming the writer and
getting mad about exactly the same things he does is
funny shit and I
liked breaking open the head its the more I read
what he’s writing now
the more I get the idea hes a total doofus.

.:vector:.

WANT TO GET OFF JUNK?

Get Really Really High

Martin Polanco doesn’t look like a witch doctor.
There’s no bone
through his nose, no grass skirts or animal skins
lying around his
office (however, also absent are any visible medical
school diplomas).
Dr. Polanco is just a soft-spoken Mexican
twenty-something with an
angel face full of braces and a bad hairdo. He’s the
kind of guy you’d
expect to find sweating through a church dance or
downloading porn in
your company’s IT department. One thing he
definitely does not look
like is a very experienced trip master who uses a
shitload of tribal
psychedelics to get lower-middle-class American
junkies so high they
never want to touch heroin again.

“I’m a big fan of the fight-fire-with-fire
mentality,” says Polanco
from underneath his well-stoked shelves containing
everything from
mainstream painkillers to tribal drugs like ibogaine
hydrochloride.
Polanco’s method involves giving addicts a single
dose of ibogaine, a
pill full of all the fun stuff one normally gets out
of chewing the
West African root iboga. Ibogaine therapy works on a
simple tenet: The
trip is said to be so dynamic and intense that it
rewires your thought
process forever, thus smart bombing the craving for
dope (and probably
some unexplored regions of your id, as well). Long
used by the Bwiti
tribe of Gabon for sacred initiation rights, iboga
got a rep as an
addiction cure in the late 50s and early 60s amongst
a circle of NYC
progressives who claimed it was a miracle drug. You
may have first
heard of it when William Burroughs sought out yage,
its South American
sister, to end one of his little dalliances with the
brown. His letters
back to Ginsberg became that book The Yage Letters.

After ibogaine started crashing Yippie parties, the
US government
scheduled it as a narcotic and the US medical
community simultaneously
decided it was no longer a miracle cure. Over the
last decade, however,
ibogaine has experienced an unexpected revival. Now
there’s a cadre of
daredevil doctors striving for its legitimacy in the
pharmaceutical and
medical industry. The National Institute of Health
has already funneled
millions of dollars into ibogaine studies, while the
US Food and Drug
Administration recently approved human trials. In
1996, the University
of Miami Medical Center opened a research facility
for ibogaine in the
Caribbean haven of St. Kitts. And Dr. Stanley Glick,
director of
neuropharmacology and neuroscience at Albany Medical
Center, brokered
twelve years of successful lab research on how the
drug binds to brain
receptors into what will most likely be the first
clinical tests of
ibogaine in the US.

But addicts looking for that magic bullet RIGHT THIS
SECOND must
inevitably turn to Dr. Polanco.

Polanco’s clinic, the Ibogaine Institute, is nestled
discreetly in the
enclave of San Antonio del Mar, a strip of
rent-a-season pleasure
palaces that runs the Baja coast between Tijuana and
Rosarito Beach.
It’s a 30-minute drive from San Diego, where
Polanco’s Stateside
partners shuttle in the majority of his clients. The
clinic itself
resembles a humble summer villa with a barbeque pit
on the roof and red
ceramic work. Self-help and New Age books about
angels are scattered
everywhere. It’s clean but sparsely furnished, and
the sole medical
effects are an asthmatic EKG machine and a lonely
saline drip.

Clockwise from top left: Dr. Polanco and patient
Jeremiah pre-trip
(Jeremiah has been give morphine to minimize heroin
withdrawal);
patient Melissa cuts patient Johnny’s hair in
observance of an ancient
Bwiti pre-iboga ritual; Johnny finishes the job;
Johnny post-trip with
a self-portrait of what he thinks he looked like in
the throes of
ibogaine; Melissa at the clinic; Mark, heroin and
crack addict, with a
member of Dr. Polanco’s dedicated staff.

During my visit, four addicts were undergoing
ibogaine therapy at
$2,500 a trip. Patients spend eight to ten hours
lying on twin
mattresses spread on the tiles with a heavy-duty
plastic puke bucket
close at hand—not unlike kicking heroin by yourself
on a hotel-room
floor, except you’re tripping your balls off. To
ensure no one
seizures, Polanco keeps a team of gringo nurses and
trip guides on
hand. If things go well these aides will help with
the arts-and-crafts
part of the trip. Of course, the doctor can offer no
long-term
sponsorships or therapy. The trip itself is the
therapy. After that,
it’s adios. He’s not magic, you know.

For example, the ibogaine treatment still means you
have to go through
withdrawal. When I arrived at the clinic, Dr.
Polanco was packing up
his medical bag with the morphine and Xanax he uses
to ease the
patients junk-sick pain. As Polanco puts it,
“Without these pills, the
pain from withdrawal would lead to some terrible,
and potentially
lethal, hallucinations.”

Before the tripping began three of the patients
seemed nothing more
than sleepy. The fourth, however, was gung-ho and
wanted to make sure
he was doing the ritual in full accordance with
Bwiti rites. Polanco
asked me not to take photos because the flash would
freak out the
patients, an odd request considering that local kids
spend the majority
of the night lighting off fireworks on the cliffs
beneath the clinic.

The next twelve hours consisted of puking and
drawing and laughing and
crying. After about two hours of hysteria they all
went back to their
rooms and stared at the ceiling with golf-ball eyes
while six thousand
universes flashed across the sky. It seemed a lot
more intense for them
than it did for me. The next day I woke them up and
everyone said the
same thing: I’m a different person. Each one
described his or her
individual trip in the vivid and spiritual of terms
of George Harrison
circa 1967. I could go on about the stories they
told, but all you have
to do is take a Xanax, smoke a joint, and go to
sleep. When you wake
up, write down your dreams. Now multiply that by a
thousand and pretend
you were awake for it. You did live with Saddam
Hussein and his
superhero wife, and you did go shopping for
wolverines. One man was
able to perceive reality as a series of
two-dimensional chips, each one
a crucial transparency of the next (whatever that
means). Nobody
mentioned seeing heroin during their hallucinations.
After hearing
their stories, I began to understand why AA founder
Bill Wilson turned
to Tim Leary at the end of his life.

One month later the story becomes slightly less
magnificent. Two of the
four have relapsed and are back on dope. Of course,
success rates like
these aren’t putting Polanco out of business. Week
by week, his clinic
continues to take patients from across the border,
as it’s bound to
until the US realizes that it may be chucking out a
medical cash cow in
the drug-war bathwater. “It is not a miracle drug,”
says Polanco,
smiling a little too coyly. “But it is a very
promising one.”

GIDEON YAGO

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping – with improved product
search
http://shopping.yahoo.com

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping – with improved product search
http://shopping.yahoo.com

From: <jcaraso@hushmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Vice Magazine ibogaine article
Date: October 12, 2003 at 7:10:52 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Pinchbeck is a doofus.

http://www.matrixmasters.com/pn/2003conversations/2003pinchbeck.html

Pinchbeck isn’t the problem, he’s some fat terrence mckenna wannabe who
doesn’t know anything about hard drugs and not much about drugs of any
kind.

The problem is trying to figure out what is or isn’t real in ibogaine
treatment. What Pinchbeck writes about mexico and what Gideon wrote are
two totally different experiences.

4 matresses thrown on the floor next to vomit buckets and a broken EKG
is a little different then the bullshit pinchbeck layers on.

The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. Which is the same with
everything anyone ever says about ibogaine and that makes it impossible
to figure out anything without actually doing ibogaine.

jc

On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 20:55:08 -0700 Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Another ibogaine article in Vice Magazine.

http://www.viceland.com/issues/v10n8/htdocs/want.php

Funny article, smartass writer. It was fun to read, more fun is
the
flamewar at the end of it between daniel pinchbeck dissing the writer
and other comments.

I thought it was a fun read and not anymore biased or free of facts
then most ibogaine articles including pinchbeck’s who doesn’t even
spell howard lotsof’s name right in the LA Weekly piece, I think
its
fixed where the same article shows up in the guardian.

I dont know how to say it exactly but pinchbeck flaming the writer
and
getting mad about exactly the same things he does is funny shit
and I
liked breaking open the head its the more I read what he’s writing
now
the more I get the idea hes a total doofus.

.:vector:.

WANT TO GET OFF JUNK?

Get Really Really High

Martin Polanco doesn&#146;t look like a witch doctor. There&#146;s no bone
through his nose, no grass skirts or animal skins lying around his
office (however, also absent are any visible medical school diplomas).
Dr. Polanco is just a soft-spoken Mexican twenty-something with
an
angel face full of braces and a bad hairdo. He&#146;s the kind of guy
you&#146;d
expect to find sweating through a church dance or downloading porn
in
your company&#146;s IT department. One thing he definitely does not look
like is a very experienced trip master who uses a shitload of tribal
psychedelics to get lower-middle-class American junkies so high
they
never want to touch heroin again.

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
https://www.hushmail.com/services.php?subloc=messenger&l=434

Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
https://www.hushmail.com/about.php?subloc=affiliate&l=427

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Vice Magazine ibogaine article
Date: October 11, 2003 at 11:55:08 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Another ibogaine article in Vice Magazine.

http://www.viceland.com/issues/v10n8/htdocs/want.php

Funny article, smartass writer. It was fun to read, more fun is the
flamewar at the end of it between daniel pinchbeck dissing the writer
and other comments.

I thought it was a fun read and not anymore biased or free of facts
then most ibogaine articles including pinchbeck’s who doesn’t even
spell howard lotsof’s name right in the LA Weekly piece, I think its
fixed where the same article shows up in the guardian.

I dont know how to say it exactly but pinchbeck flaming the writer and
getting mad about exactly the same things he does is funny shit and I
liked breaking open the head its the more I read what he’s writing now
the more I get the idea hes a total doofus.

.:vector:.

WANT TO GET OFF JUNK?

Get Really Really High

Martin Polanco doesn’t look like a witch doctor. There’s no bone
through his nose, no grass skirts or animal skins lying around his
office (however, also absent are any visible medical school diplomas).
Dr. Polanco is just a soft-spoken Mexican twenty-something with an
angel face full of braces and a bad hairdo. He’s the kind of guy you’d
expect to find sweating through a church dance or downloading porn in
your company’s IT department. One thing he definitely does not look
like is a very experienced trip master who uses a shitload of tribal
psychedelics to get lower-middle-class American junkies so high they
never want to touch heroin again.

“I’m a big fan of the fight-fire-with-fire mentality,” says Polanco
from underneath his well-stoked shelves containing everything from
mainstream painkillers to tribal drugs like ibogaine hydrochloride.
Polanco’s method involves giving addicts a single dose of ibogaine, a
pill full of all the fun stuff one normally gets out of chewing the
West African root iboga. Ibogaine therapy works on a simple tenet: The
trip is said to be so dynamic and intense that it rewires your thought
process forever, thus smart bombing the craving for dope (and probably
some unexplored regions of your id, as well). Long used by the Bwiti
tribe of Gabon for sacred initiation rights, iboga got a rep as an
addiction cure in the late 50s and early 60s amongst a circle of NYC
progressives who claimed it was a miracle drug. You may have first
heard of it when William Burroughs sought out yage, its South American
sister, to end one of his little dalliances with the brown. His letters
back to Ginsberg became that book The Yage Letters.

After ibogaine started crashing Yippie parties, the US government
scheduled it as a narcotic and the US medical community simultaneously
decided it was no longer a miracle cure. Over the last decade, however,
ibogaine has experienced an unexpected revival. Now there’s a cadre of
daredevil doctors striving for its legitimacy in the pharmaceutical and
medical industry. The National Institute of Health has already funneled
millions of dollars into ibogaine studies, while the US Food and Drug
Administration recently approved human trials. In 1996, the University
of Miami Medical Center opened a research facility for ibogaine in the
Caribbean haven of St. Kitts. And Dr. Stanley Glick, director of
neuropharmacology and neuroscience at Albany Medical Center, brokered
twelve years of successful lab research on how the drug binds to brain
receptors into what will most likely be the first clinical tests of
ibogaine in the US.

But addicts looking for that magic bullet RIGHT THIS SECOND must
inevitably turn to Dr. Polanco.

Polanco’s clinic, the Ibogaine Institute, is nestled discreetly in the
enclave of San Antonio del Mar, a strip of rent-a-season pleasure
palaces that runs the Baja coast between Tijuana and Rosarito Beach.
It’s a 30-minute drive from San Diego, where Polanco’s Stateside
partners shuttle in the majority of his clients. The clinic itself
resembles a humble summer villa with a barbeque pit on the roof and red
ceramic work. Self-help and New Age books about angels are scattered
everywhere. It’s clean but sparsely furnished, and the sole medical
effects are an asthmatic EKG machine and a lonely saline drip.

Clockwise from top left: Dr. Polanco and patient Jeremiah pre-trip
(Jeremiah has been give morphine to minimize heroin withdrawal);
patient Melissa cuts patient Johnny’s hair in observance of an ancient
Bwiti pre-iboga ritual; Johnny finishes the job; Johnny post-trip with
a self-portrait of what he thinks he looked like in the throes of
ibogaine; Melissa at the clinic; Mark, heroin and crack addict, with a
member of Dr. Polanco’s dedicated staff.

During my visit, four addicts were undergoing ibogaine therapy at
$2,500 a trip. Patients spend eight to ten hours lying on twin
mattresses spread on the tiles with a heavy-duty plastic puke bucket
close at hand—not unlike kicking heroin by yourself on a hotel-room
floor, except you’re tripping your balls off. To ensure no one
seizures, Polanco keeps a team of gringo nurses and trip guides on
hand. If things go well these aides will help with the arts-and-crafts
part of the trip. Of course, the doctor can offer no long-term
sponsorships or therapy. The trip itself is the therapy. After that,
it’s adios. He’s not magic, you know.

For example, the ibogaine treatment still means you have to go through
withdrawal. When I arrived at the clinic, Dr. Polanco was packing up
his medical bag with the morphine and Xanax he uses to ease the
patients junk-sick pain. As Polanco puts it, “Without these pills, the
pain from withdrawal would lead to some terrible, and potentially
lethal, hallucinations.”

Before the tripping began three of the patients seemed nothing more
than sleepy. The fourth, however, was gung-ho and wanted to make sure
he was doing the ritual in full accordance with Bwiti rites. Polanco
asked me not to take photos because the flash would freak out the
patients, an odd request considering that local kids spend the majority
of the night lighting off fireworks on the cliffs beneath the clinic.

The next twelve hours consisted of puking and drawing and laughing and
crying. After about two hours of hysteria they all went back to their
rooms and stared at the ceiling with golf-ball eyes while six thousand
universes flashed across the sky. It seemed a lot more intense for them
than it did for me. The next day I woke them up and everyone said the
same thing: I’m a different person. Each one described his or her
individual trip in the vivid and spiritual of terms of George Harrison
circa 1967. I could go on about the stories they told, but all you have
to do is take a Xanax, smoke a joint, and go to sleep. When you wake
up, write down your dreams. Now multiply that by a thousand and pretend
you were awake for it. You did live with Saddam Hussein and his
superhero wife, and you did go shopping for wolverines. One man was
able to perceive reality as a series of two-dimensional chips, each one
a crucial transparency of the next (whatever that means). Nobody
mentioned seeing heroin during their hallucinations. After hearing
their stories, I began to understand why AA founder Bill Wilson turned
to Tim Leary at the end of his life.

One month later the story becomes slightly less magnificent. Two of the
four have relapsed and are back on dope. Of course, success rates like
these aren’t putting Polanco out of business. Week by week, his clinic
continues to take patients from across the border, as it’s bound to
until the US realizes that it may be chucking out a medical cash cow in
the drug-war bathwater. “It is not a miracle drug,” says Polanco,
smiling a little too coyly. “But it is a very promising one.”

GIDEON YAGO

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping – with improved product search
http://shopping.yahoo.com

From: “jocy” <jr@israven.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] searching treatment
Date: October 10, 2003 at 10:12:53 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi group, i will like to have the advise of serious people who make treatments with ibogaine, with experience on many cases during some years, and not so expensive !!! in a medical environment, Sugestions can be off line. I am in Venezuela
Please
Thanks.
Jocy

_________________________________________________________________
IncrediMail – El E-mail ha evolucionado finalmente – Haga clic aquí

From: Mustafa İzgi <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] I’m so happy
Date: October 10, 2003 at 3:20:25 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Friends In The Group,
This is the first day that I started  feeling myself strong enough to write letter. 10 days ago I took iboga (around 1 gram) and there is no addiction or craving now. I’m totaly free from addiction. First few days after Iboga, I was feeling little weak but day by day I become stronger and now I’m totaly ok. Everybody must know that Iboga is the only treatment that works on me. And I believe I learned many thing about me from Iboga (total cleaning in my closet). Believe it or not but I also kicked smoking ciggarettes. Iboga has changed my way of looking to life and death.  In this age everyone must try iboga.

PS: endless feeling of indebtednes to Amon, Sera and
Howard

Best Regards
M. Izgi

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] “Ibogaine alternatives” in psychedelic therapy
Date: October 9, 2003 at 6:18:11 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I believe that is not correct,
unfortunately/fortunately. If you are (for instance)
OD’ing, they (ER, EMT…) will blast you with
naltrexone (or narcan), <

Yes, they sure will-

http://www.drugwar.com/pnarcan.shtm
Narcan-
Bringing the Dead Back to Life
chapter 20 of “Something in the Way”
copyright 2001
by Preston Peet
snip-
By the time they get back to the restaurant, the paramedic is holding a
loaded hypodermic in his hand, preparing to administer it to Void.
“What’s that, Narcan?” Thomas asks.
“That’s right,” says the paramedic. “He’s a lucky guy.” He shoots the stuff
into Void’s upper arm. “Thirty seconds, just wait. This stuff is magic.”
Thomas doesn’t think Void is going to feel so lucky when he wakes up. Yeah,
he’s alive, but he’d just gotten straight. Now he’s going to be really sick.
Narcan completely clears the system of any vestige of the drug and it’s
effects, at least temporarily, leaving the patient agonizingly ill.
After exactly thirty seconds, Void’s eyes shoot open. The first words out of
his mouth are, “I’m all right, I’m all right.” He’s not even aware he’s been
dead, at least not immediately, but confusion is evident on his face. It’s
obvious something is wrong. He looks up at the paramedics and cops. “Oh
shit.”
“Just lie there for a minute, kid. Relax.” One of the paramedics tells Void,
who’s struggling to get to his feet. “Give it a minute, you just had a close
call.”
snip-

Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Brett Calabrese” <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 5:47 PM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] “Ibogaine alternatives” in psychedelic therapy

Brad,

Naltreaxone
can only be taken when
an individual is 100% detox’d from all opiates

I believe that is not correct,
unfortunately/fortunately. If you are (for instance)
OD’ing, they (ER, EMT…) will blast you with
naltrexone (or narcan), or sometimes just for fun when
they are called in and see some nodding doper, wakes
em up real fast. I can’t remember off hand which but
naloxone (narcan) or naltrexone is being considered as
a harm reduction measure – to give them to addicts in
case of OD. Either will generally send an addict into
withdrawal. When they get up, instead of thanking you
for saving their life they will likely be pissed as
hell that you ruined a good hit, take your money and
buy some more smack to try to shoot through the
naltrexone. Hopefully they won’t have too much of a
load of dope on-board when the naltrexone wears off
and won’t OD again – this is what happens with
naltrexone implants (shooting enough to overcome the
naltrexone) but OOPS once it wears off…

If you are a real hard ass and want to detox yourself,
you can eat a bunch of benzo’s, tie yourself down
and… kind of nasty but over more or less in less
than 8 hours, if you survive – which amazingly happens
most of the time. 2 side effects with giving
naltrexone to an opiate addict are spontanious death
and suicide – and they complain ibogaine is dangerous
(that is different…). Well they were only addicts
anyway. It is amazing how an unapproved experimental
procedure that causes more deaths than the problem
(UROD I believe statistically kills more addicts than
the dope will) can spawn an industry while no-one will
even sniff at ibogaine which actually works. OH, I
forgot the money part, does it make money comes before
does it help the patient. Market share comes before
patient care in this United States of Corporations.

Yes this post was tongue-in-cheek (in case you missed
it).

Brett

— Brad Fisher <brad.fisher@guaranty.com> wrote:
Ultra Rapid Detox is done in a hospital, Naltreaxone
can only be taken when
an individual is 100% detox’d from all opiates. It
can be prescribed by a
Dr. Must be careful, if an individual is not 100%
detox the Nalteaxone will
immediately put your body in detox. NO FUN.
bf
—–Original Message—–
From: Allison Senepart
[mailto:aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 1:50 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] “Ibogaine alternatives” in
psychedelic therapy

When you talk about rapid detox and
Naltreaxone do you have to do
that in a hospital.  We have the programme here in
NZ but you have to be
admitted to a hospital and medically supervised for
about 3 to 5 days as far
as I know.  Have never heard of the implant bit
though.   Allison

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Thursday, 9 October 2003 7:33:24 a.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] “Ibogaine
alternatives” in psychedelic
therapy

The hospitals should not be allowed to do it
in my opinion. I would
like to
put the Dr.’s who promote it through it.
bf

—–Original Message—–
From: Armstrong, Jonathan R
[mailto:jonathan.armstrong@qwest.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 8:40 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] “Ibogaine
alternatives” in psychedelic
therapy

A friend of a friend here just died after
receiving ROD following a
fairly short term oxycodone addiction. Not
sure about the specifics
of
this.

Real nice, you know, he just had triplets
after trying to have
children
for many many years. Super clean-cut
ex-Marine type guy too, just
got
addicted to them after back surgery & the
inevitable stress of
having 3
kids at once. Of course, it’s people like
this who generally have
the
most problems with addiction. I mean, people
who are pharmocophiles
like myself will know the specifics of this
or that but straight
people
just want to get off the shit, see the add
in the back of their
local
‘alternative’ weekly and give it a call.

—–Original Message—–
From: Brad Fisher
[mailto:brad.fisher@guaranty.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 8:20 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] “Ibogaine
alternatives” in psychedelic
therapy

Jonathan mentioned “rapid detox”, I spent
$15,000.00 at a hospital
in
Portland,Or. approx 5-6 yrs. ago. Was the
MOST HORRIBLE experiance
of my
53 yrs on earth. bf

—–Original Message—–
From: Armstrong, Jonathan R
[mailto:jonathan.armstrong@qwest.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 5:40 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] “Ibogaine alternatives”
in psychedelic therapy

I’d long heard reports (or perhaps just hazy
recollections of stuff
I’d
read other places) that other psychedelics
(such as ketamine and
ayahuasca) can help interrupt or mediate
addiction. Obviously this
raises the whole chicken-or-the-egg thing
here about treating the
soul
as well as the body, but I’m talking about
perhaps using Ibogaine in
conjunction (not at the same time!) or
possibly in adjunct to some
other
sorta psychedelic therapy. Unfortunately, I
can’t find any
references
on the ayahuasca thing. Can anyone help?

It has been shown that administration of
ketamine with morphine
reduces
or prevents the development of morphine
tolerance, so these two are
sometimes used in conjunction with each
other in chronic pain
patients.
There is this psychiatrist, Evgeny
Krupitsky, who has been treating
alcoholics and heroin addicts using ketamine
fairly successfully
(slightly over the regular relapse margin,
which is good, if you
consider that famous experiment that Timothy
Leary did where he
found
that the relapse rate was approximately the
same upon doing nothing
at
all as it was with regular therapy anyway –
but I digress).

I’m not sure what the “trip” on Ibogaine is
like, but perhaps if it
is
not quite meeting God the goal should be to
get people detoxed
first,
and get them to see if perhaps there’s
something beyond the veil
after
that. (Seems like this could at least do no
worse than the usual MO
of
sitting around and watching television until
the Librium wears off,
but
this is all from anecdotal reports I’ve
heard from other people.)
Everything I’ve heard about that “rapid
detox” is that it is
absolutely
horrible.

OK, there was a point to this message in
posting a buncha references
but
my ride is here and it’s already been a long
day. If you’re
interested
I’ll post them tomorrow (or more than
likely, as is usually the
case,
this will not get any responses, but hell,
just throwing that out
there.)

Later,
Jonathan

.

____________________________________________________
IncrediMail – Email has finally evolved – Click
Here

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping – with improved product search
http://shopping.yahoo.com

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] “Ibogaine alternatives” in psychedelic therapy
Date: October 9, 2003 at 6:15:20 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

or sometimes just for fun when
they are called in and see some nodding doper, wakes
em up real fast.<

I have even read about doctors using it to make sure and verify that someone
is an opiate addict.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Brett Calabrese” <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 5:47 PM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] “Ibogaine alternatives” in psychedelic therapy

Brad,

Naltreaxone
can only be taken when
an individual is 100% detox’d from all opiates

I believe that is not correct,
unfortunately/fortunately. If you are (for instance)
OD’ing, they (ER, EMT…) will blast you with
naltrexone (or narcan), or sometimes just for fun when
they are called in and see some nodding doper, wakes
em up real fast. I can’t remember off hand which but
naloxone (narcan) or naltrexone is being considered as
a harm reduction measure – to give them to addicts in
case of OD. Either will generally send an addict into
withdrawal. When they get up, instead of thanking you
for saving their life they will likely be pissed as
hell that you ruined a good hit, take your money and
buy some more smack to try to shoot through the
naltrexone. Hopefully they won’t have too much of a
load of dope on-board when the naltrexone wears off
and won’t OD again – this is what happens with
naltrexone implants (shooting enough to overcome the
naltrexone) but OOPS once it wears off…

If you are a real hard ass and want to detox yourself,
you can eat a bunch of benzo’s, tie yourself down
and… kind of nasty but over more or less in less
than 8 hours, if you survive – which amazingly happens
most of the time. 2 side effects with giving
naltrexone to an opiate addict are spontanious death
and suicide – and they complain ibogaine is dangerous
(that is different…). Well they were only addicts
anyway. It is amazing how an unapproved experimental
procedure that causes more deaths than the problem
(UROD I believe statistically kills more addicts than
the dope will) can spawn an industry while no-one will
even sniff at ibogaine which actually works. OH, I
forgot the money part, does it make money comes before
does it help the patient. Market share comes before
patient care in this United States of Corporations.

Yes this post was tongue-in-cheek (in case you missed
it).

Brett

— Brad Fisher <brad.fisher@guaranty.com> wrote:
Ultra Rapid Detox is done in a hospital, Naltreaxone
can only be taken when
an individual is 100% detox’d from all opiates. It
can be prescribed by a
Dr. Must be careful, if an individual is not 100%
detox the Nalteaxone will
immediately put your body in detox. NO FUN.
bf
—–Original Message—–
From: Allison Senepart
[mailto:aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 1:50 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] “Ibogaine alternatives” in
psychedelic therapy

When you talk about rapid detox and
Naltreaxone do you have to do
that in a hospital.  We have the programme here in
NZ but you have to be
admitted to a hospital and medically supervised for
about 3 to 5 days as far
as I know.  Have never heard of the implant bit
though.   Allison

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Thursday, 9 October 2003 7:33:24 a.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] “Ibogaine
alternatives” in psychedelic
therapy

The hospitals should not be allowed to do it
in my opinion. I would
like to
put the Dr.’s who promote it through it.
bf

—–Original Message—–
From: Armstrong, Jonathan R
[mailto:jonathan.armstrong@qwest.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 8:40 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] “Ibogaine
alternatives” in psychedelic
therapy

A friend of a friend here just died after
receiving ROD following a
fairly short term oxycodone addiction. Not
sure about the specifics
of
this.

Real nice, you know, he just had triplets
after trying to have
children
for many many years. Super clean-cut
ex-Marine type guy too, just
got
addicted to them after back surgery & the
inevitable stress of
having 3
kids at once. Of course, it’s people like
this who generally have
the
most problems with addiction. I mean, people
who are pharmocophiles
like myself will know the specifics of this
or that but straight
people
just want to get off the shit, see the add
in the back of their
local
‘alternative’ weekly and give it a call.

—–Original Message—–
From: Brad Fisher
[mailto:brad.fisher@guaranty.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 8:20 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] “Ibogaine
alternatives” in psychedelic
therapy

Jonathan mentioned “rapid detox”, I spent
$15,000.00 at a hospital
in
Portland,Or. approx 5-6 yrs. ago. Was the
MOST HORRIBLE experiance
of my
53 yrs on earth. bf

—–Original Message—–
From: Armstrong, Jonathan R
[mailto:jonathan.armstrong@qwest.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 5:40 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] “Ibogaine alternatives”
in psychedelic therapy

I’d long heard reports (or perhaps just hazy
recollections of stuff
I’d
read other places) that other psychedelics
(such as ketamine and
ayahuasca) can help interrupt or mediate
addiction. Obviously this
raises the whole chicken-or-the-egg thing
here about treating the
soul
as well as the body, but I’m talking about
perhaps using Ibogaine in
conjunction (not at the same time!) or
possibly in adjunct to some
other
sorta psychedelic therapy. Unfortunately, I
can’t find any
references
on the ayahuasca thing. Can anyone help?

It has been shown that administration of
ketamine with morphine
reduces
or prevents the development of morphine
tolerance, so these two are
sometimes used in conjunction with each
other in chronic pain
patients.
There is this psychiatrist, Evgeny
Krupitsky, who has been treating
alcoholics and heroin addicts using ketamine
fairly successfully
(slightly over the regular relapse margin,
which is good, if you
consider that famous experiment that Timothy
Leary did where he
found
that the relapse rate was approximately the
same upon doing nothing
at
all as it was with regular therapy anyway –
but I digress).

I’m not sure what the “trip” on Ibogaine is
like, but perhaps if it
is
not quite meeting God the goal should be to
get people detoxed
first,
and get them to see if perhaps there’s
something beyond the veil
after
that. (Seems like this could at least do no
worse than the usual MO
of
sitting around and watching television until
the Librium wears off,
but
this is all from anecdotal reports I’ve
heard from other people.)
Everything I’ve heard about that “rapid
detox” is that it is
absolutely
horrible.

OK, there was a point to this message in
posting a buncha references
but
my ride is here and it’s already been a long
day. If you’re
interested
I’ll post them tomorrow (or more than
likely, as is usually the
case,
this will not get any responses, but hell,
just throwing that out
there.)

Later,
Jonathan

.

____________________________________________________
IncrediMail – Email has finally evolved – Click
Here

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping – with improved product search
http://shopping.yahoo.com

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] “Ibogaine alternatives” in psychedelic therapy
Date: October 9, 2003 at 5:47:10 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Brad,

Naltreaxone
can only be taken when
an individual is 100% detox’d from all opiates

I believe that is not correct,
unfortunately/fortunately. If you are (for instance)
OD’ing, they (ER, EMT…) will blast you with
naltrexone (or narcan), or sometimes just for fun when
they are called in and see some nodding doper, wakes
em up real fast. I can’t remember off hand which but
naloxone (narcan) or naltrexone is being considered as
a harm reduction measure – to give them to addicts in
case of OD. Either will generally send an addict into
withdrawal. When they get up, instead of thanking you
for saving their life they will likely be pissed as
hell that you ruined a good hit, take your money and
buy some more smack to try to shoot through the
naltrexone. Hopefully they won’t have too much of a
load of dope on-board when the naltrexone wears off
and won’t OD again – this is what happens with
naltrexone implants (shooting enough to overcome the
naltrexone) but OOPS once it wears off…

If you are a real hard ass and want to detox yourself,
you can eat a bunch of benzo’s, tie yourself down
and… kind of nasty but over more or less in less
than 8 hours, if you survive – which amazingly happens
most of the time. 2 side effects with giving
naltrexone to an opiate addict are spontanious death
and suicide – and they complain ibogaine is dangerous
(that is different…). Well they were only addicts
anyway. It is amazing how an unapproved experimental
procedure that causes more deaths than the problem
(UROD I believe statistically kills more addicts than
the dope will) can spawn an industry while no-one will
even sniff at ibogaine which actually works. OH, I
forgot the money part, does it make money comes before
does it help the patient. Market share comes before
patient care in this United States of Corporations.

Yes this post was tongue-in-cheek (in case you missed
it).

Brett

— Brad Fisher <brad.fisher@guaranty.com> wrote:
Ultra Rapid Detox is done in a hospital, Naltreaxone
can only be taken when
an individual is 100% detox’d from all opiates. It
can be prescribed by a
Dr. Must be careful, if an individual is not 100%
detox the Nalteaxone will
immediately put your body in detox. NO FUN.
bf
—–Original Message—–
From: Allison Senepart
[mailto:aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 1:50 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] “Ibogaine alternatives” in
psychedelic therapy

When you talk about rapid detox and
Naltreaxone do you have to do
that in a hospital.  We have the programme here in
NZ but you have to be
admitted to a hospital and medically supervised for
about 3 to 5 days as far
as I know.  Have never heard of the implant bit
though.   Allison

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Thursday, 9 October 2003 7:33:24 a.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] “Ibogaine
alternatives” in psychedelic
therapy

The hospitals should not be allowed to do it
in my opinion. I would
like to
put the Dr.’s who promote it through it.
bf

—–Original Message—–
From: Armstrong, Jonathan R
[mailto:jonathan.armstrong@qwest.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 8:40 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] “Ibogaine
alternatives” in psychedelic
therapy

A friend of a friend here just died after
receiving ROD following a
fairly short term oxycodone addiction. Not
sure about the specifics
of
this.

Real nice, you know, he just had triplets
after trying to have
children
for many many years. Super clean-cut
ex-Marine type guy too, just
got
addicted to them after back surgery & the
inevitable stress of
having 3
kids at once. Of course, it’s people like
this who generally have
the
most problems with addiction. I mean, people
who are pharmocophiles
like myself will know the specifics of this
or that but straight
people
just want to get off the shit, see the add
in the back of their
local
‘alternative’ weekly and give it a call.

—–Original Message—–
From: Brad Fisher
[mailto:brad.fisher@guaranty.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 8:20 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] “Ibogaine
alternatives” in psychedelic
therapy

Jonathan mentioned “rapid detox”, I spent
$15,000.00 at a hospital
in
Portland,Or. approx 5-6 yrs. ago. Was the
MOST HORRIBLE experiance
of my
53 yrs on earth. bf

—–Original Message—–
From: Armstrong, Jonathan R
[mailto:jonathan.armstrong@qwest.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 5:40 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] “Ibogaine alternatives”
in psychedelic therapy

I’d long heard reports (or perhaps just hazy
recollections of stuff
I’d
read other places) that other psychedelics
(such as ketamine and
ayahuasca) can help interrupt or mediate
addiction. Obviously this
raises the whole chicken-or-the-egg thing
here about treating the
soul
as well as the body, but I’m talking about
perhaps using Ibogaine in
conjunction (not at the same time!) or
possibly in adjunct to some
other
sorta psychedelic therapy. Unfortunately, I
can’t find any
references
on the ayahuasca thing. Can anyone help?

It has been shown that administration of
ketamine with morphine
reduces
or prevents the development of morphine
tolerance, so these two are
sometimes used in conjunction with each
other in chronic pain
patients.
There is this psychiatrist, Evgeny
Krupitsky, who has been treating
alcoholics and heroin addicts using ketamine
fairly successfully
(slightly over the regular relapse margin,
which is good, if you
consider that famous experiment that Timothy
Leary did where he
found
that the relapse rate was approximately the
same upon doing nothing
at
all as it was with regular therapy anyway –
but I digress).

I’m not sure what the “trip” on Ibogaine is
like, but perhaps if it
is
not quite meeting God the goal should be to
get people detoxed
first,
and get them to see if perhaps there’s
something beyond the veil
after
that. (Seems like this could at least do no
worse than the usual MO
of
sitting around and watching television until
the Librium wears off,
but
this is all from anecdotal reports I’ve
heard from other people.)
Everything I’ve heard about that “rapid
detox” is that it is
absolutely
horrible.

OK, there was a point to this message in
posting a buncha references
but
my ride is here and it’s already been a long
day. If you’re
interested
I’ll post them tomorrow (or more than
likely, as is usually the
case,
this will not get any responses, but hell,
just throwing that out
there.)

Later,
Jonathan

.

____________________________________________________
IncrediMail – Email has finally evolved – Click
Here

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping – with improved product search
http://shopping.yahoo.com

From: “Brad Fisher” <brad.fisher@guaranty.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] “Ibogaine alternatives” in psychedelic therapy
Date: October 9, 2003 at 11:04:56 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ultra Rapid Detox is done in a hospital, Naltreaxone can only be taken when an individual is 100% detox’d from all opiates. It can be prescribed by a Dr. Must be careful, if an individual is not 100% detox the Nalteaxone will immediately put your body in detox. NO FUN.
bf
—–Original Message—–
From: Allison Senepart [mailto:aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 1:50 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] “Ibogaine alternatives” in psychedelic therapy

When you talk about rapid detox and Naltreaxone do you have to do that in a hospital.  We have the programme here in NZ but you have to be admitted to a hospital and medically supervised for about 3 to 5 days as far as I know.  Have never heard of the implant bit though.   Allison

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Thursday, 9 October 2003 7:33:24 a.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] “Ibogaine alternatives” in psychedelic therapy

The hospitals should not be allowed to do it in my opinion. I would like to
put the Dr.’s who promote it through it.
bf

—–Original Message—–
From: Armstrong, Jonathan R [mailto:jonathan.armstrong@qwest.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 8:40 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] “Ibogaine alternatives” in psychedelic therapy

A friend of a friend here just died after receiving ROD following a
fairly short term oxycodone addiction. Not sure about the specifics of
this.

Real nice, you know, he just had triplets after trying to have children
for many many years. Super clean-cut ex-Marine type guy too, just got
addicted to them after back surgery & the inevitable stress of having 3
kids at once. Of course, it’s people like this who generally have the
most problems with addiction. I mean, people who are pharmocophiles
like myself will know the specifics of this or that but straight people
just want to get off the shit, see the add in the back of their local
‘alternative’ weekly and give it a call.

—–Original Message—–
From: Brad Fisher [mailto:brad.fisher@guaranty.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 8:20 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] “Ibogaine alternatives” in psychedelic therapy

Jonathan mentioned “rapid detox”, I spent $15,000.00 at a hospital in
Portland,Or. approx 5-6 yrs. ago. Was the MOST HORRIBLE experiance of my
53 yrs on earth. bf

—–Original Message—–
From: Armstrong, Jonathan R [mailto:jonathan.armstrong@qwest.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 5:40 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] “Ibogaine alternatives” in psychedelic therapy

I’d long heard reports (or perhaps just hazy recollections of stuff I’d
read other places) that other psychedelics (such as ketamine and
ayahuasca) can help interrupt or mediate addiction. Obviously this
raises the whole chicken-or-the-egg thing here about treating the soul
as well as the body, but I’m talking about perhaps using Ibogaine in
conjunction (not at the same time!) or possibly in adjunct to some other
sorta psychedelic therapy. Unfortunately, I can’t find any references
on the ayahuasca thing. Can anyone help?

It has been shown that administration of ketamine with morphine reduces
or prevents the development of morphine tolerance, so these two are
sometimes used in conjunction with each other in chronic pain patients.
There is this psychiatrist, Evgeny Krupitsky, who has been treating
alcoholics and heroin addicts using ketamine fairly successfully
(slightly over the regular relapse margin, which is good, if you
consider that famous experiment that Timothy Leary did where he found
that the relapse rate was approximately the same upon doing nothing at
all as it was with regular therapy anyway – but I digress).

I’m not sure what the “trip” on Ibogaine is like, but perhaps if it is
not quite meeting God the goal should be to get people detoxed first,
and get them to see if perhaps there’s something beyond the veil after
that. (Seems like this could at least do no worse than the usual MO of
sitting around and watching television until the Librium wears off, but
this is all from anecdotal reports I’ve heard from other people.)
Everything I’ve heard about that “rapid detox” is that it is absolutely
horrible.

OK, there was a point to this message in posting a buncha references but
my ride is here and it’s already been a long day. If you’re interested
I’ll post them tomorrow (or more than likely, as is usually the case,
this will not get any responses, but hell, just throwing that out
there.)

Later,
Jonathan

.

____________________________________________________
IncrediMail – Email has finally evolved – Click Here

From: “sara” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] “Ibogaine alternatives” in psychedelic therapy
Date: October 9, 2003 at 7:04:45 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

25 people have died within one year coming out from the same clinic in the U.K, after Naltraxone rapid detox + inplant.
It doesn’t take the craving away (Iboga does) that makes people want to get high on top of the slow release Naltraxone inplant which make them overdose easily.

From: “Allison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] “Ibogaine alternatives” in psychedelic therapy
Date: October 9, 2003 at 4:49:40 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

When you talk about rapid detox and Naltreaxone do you have to do that in a hospital.  We have the programme here in NZ but you have to be admitted to a hospital and medically supervised for about 3 to 5 days as far as I know.  Have never heard of the implant bit though.   Allison

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Thursday, 9 October 2003 7:33:24 a.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] “Ibogaine alternatives” in psychedelic therapy

The hospitals should not be allowed to do it in my opinion. I would like to
put the Dr.’s who promote it through it.
bf

—–Original Message—–
From: Armstrong, Jonathan R [mailto:jonathan.armstrong@qwest.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 8:40 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] “Ibogaine alternatives” in psychedelic therapy

A friend of a friend here just died after receiving ROD following a
fairly short term oxycodone addiction. Not sure about the specifics of
this.

Real nice, you know, he just had triplets after trying to have children
for many many years. Super clean-cut ex-Marine type guy too, just got
addicted to them after back surgery & the inevitable stress of having 3
kids at once. Of course, it’s people like this who generally have the
most problems with addiction. I mean, people who are pharmocophiles
like myself will know the specifics of this or that but straight people
just want to get off the shit, see the add in the back of their local
‘alternative’ weekly and give it a call.

—–Original Message—–
From: Brad Fisher [mailto:brad.fisher@guaranty.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 8:20 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] “Ibogaine alternatives” in psychedelic therapy

Jonathan mentioned “rapid detox”, I spent $15,000.00 at a hospital in
Portland,Or. approx 5-6 yrs. ago. Was the MOST HORRIBLE experiance of my
53 yrs on earth. bf

—–Original Message—–
From: Armstrong, Jonathan R [mailto:jonathan.armstrong@qwest.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 5:40 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] “Ibogaine alternatives” in psychedelic therapy

I’d long heard reports (or perhaps just hazy recollections of stuff I’d
read other places) that other psychedelics (such as ketamine and
ayahuasca) can help interrupt or mediate addiction. Obviously this
raises the whole chicken-or-the-egg thing here about treating the soul
as well as the body, but I’m talking about perhaps using Ibogaine in
conjunction (not at the same time!) or possibly in adjunct to some other
sorta psychedelic therapy. Unfortunately, I can’t find any references
on the ayahuasca thing. Can anyone help?

It has been shown that administration of ketamine with morphine reduces
or prevents the development of morphine tolerance, so these two are
sometimes used in conjunction with each other in chronic pain patients.
There is this psychiatrist, Evgeny Krupitsky, who has been treating
alcoholics and heroin addicts using ketamine fairly successfully
(slightly over the regular relapse margin, which is good, if you
consider that famous experiment that Timothy Leary did where he found
that the relapse rate was approximately the same upon doing nothing at
all as it was with regular therapy anyway – but I digress).

I’m not sure what the “trip” on Ibogaine is like, but perhaps if it is
not quite meeting God the goal should be to get people detoxed first,
and get them to see if perhaps there’s something beyond the veil after
that. (Seems like this could at least do no worse than the usual MO of
sitting around and watching television until the Librium wears off, but
this is all from anecdotal reports I’ve heard from other people.)
Everything I’ve heard about that “rapid detox” is that it is absolutely
horrible.

OK, there was a point to this message in posting a buncha references but
my ride is here and it’s already been a long day. If you’re interested
I’ll post them tomorrow (or more than likely, as is usually the case,
this will not get any responses, but hell, just throwing that out
there.)

Later,
Jonathan

.

____________________________________________________
IncrediMail – Email has finally evolved – Click Here

From: “jocy” <jr@israven.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] experience of ibogaine taken after been detoxed?
Date: October 8, 2003 at 10:41:22 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi all, my son is clean after an overdose from 6 weeks ago, i am very scary thet he may relapse if he goes out , he is in a kind of clinic where the freedom doesn´t exist. Only he can go out with me for a day or weeck end. Of course he can escape and be on the street, but by now he wants to recover and he is afraid to relapse as me.
I would like to know if ibogaine would be recomended for him? What can do on a person that is already detoxed but is an compulsive person and need to change all his style of life. He didn{t finish high school, doen´t have a work, and doesn´t know what he wants on life to do, except traveling.
thanks
regards
jocy

_________________________________________________________________
IncrediMail – El E-mail ha evolucionado finalmente – Haga clic aquí

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] “Ibogaine alternatives” in psychedelic therapy
Date: October 8, 2003 at 8:10:03 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Brave man, but $15,000?
Ouch, in more ways than one.
Rapid Detox just seems to be one of the “put the leeches on ’em” kinda
ideas (although I have been reading here and there that a little leeching
goes a long way), invented by someone who had exactly zero idea of what
physical/mental addiction was all about.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Brad Fisher” <brad.fisher@guaranty.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 10:19 AM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] “Ibogaine alternatives” in psychedelic therapy

Jonathan mentioned “rapid detox”, I spent $15,000.00 at a hospital in
Portland,Or. approx 5-6 yrs. ago. Was the MOST HORRIBLE experiance of my
53
yrs on earth.
bf

—–Original Message—–
From: Armstrong, Jonathan R [mailto:jonathan.armstrong@qwest.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 5:40 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] “Ibogaine alternatives” in psychedelic therapy

I’d long heard reports (or perhaps just hazy recollections of stuff I’d
read other places) that other psychedelics (such as ketamine and
ayahuasca) can help interrupt or mediate addiction.  Obviously this
raises the whole chicken-or-the-egg thing here about treating the soul
as well as the body, but I’m talking about perhaps using Ibogaine in
conjunction (not at the same time!) or possibly in adjunct to some other
sorta psychedelic therapy.  Unfortunately, I can’t find any references
on the ayahuasca thing.  Can anyone help?

It has been shown that administration of ketamine with morphine reduces
or prevents the development of morphine tolerance, so these two are
sometimes used in conjunction with each other in chronic pain patients.
There is this psychiatrist, Evgeny Krupitsky, who has been treating
alcoholics and heroin addicts using ketamine fairly successfully
(slightly over the regular relapse margin, which is good, if you
consider that famous experiment that Timothy Leary did where he found
that the relapse rate was approximately the same upon doing nothing at
all as it was with regular therapy anyway – but I digress).

I’m not sure what the “trip” on Ibogaine is like, but perhaps if it is
not quite meeting God the goal should be to get people detoxed first,
and get them to see if perhaps there’s something beyond the veil after
that.  (Seems like this could at least do no worse than the usual MO of
sitting around and watching television until the Librium wears off, but
this is all from anecdotal reports I’ve heard from other people.)
Everything I’ve heard about that “rapid detox” is that it is absolutely
horrible.

OK, there was a point to this message in posting a buncha references but
my ride is here and it’s already been a long day.  If you’re interested
I’ll post them tomorrow (or more than likely, as is usually the case,
this will not get any responses, but hell, just throwing that out
there.)

Later,
Jonathan

From: “Brad Fisher” <brad.fisher@guaranty.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] “Ibogaine alternatives” in psychedelic therapy
Date: October 8, 2003 at 3:02:01 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

They did not give an implant, thank goodness, I did go on Naltreaxan immediately and yes it is very harsh. Before MMT  that had been the only way I had ever accomplished any Heroin free time.MMT has given me my life back.
bf
—–Original Message—–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com [mailto:CallieMimosa@aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 11:38 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] “Ibogaine alternatives” in psychedelic therapy

What really hurts is to be rapidly detoxed and then a narcan implant put under your skin! My girl friend had this done and she was begging me, since I am a nurse, to ‘get the implant out’!! Of course, I couldn’t do that and she was sick for 2 months with stomach cramps, diarrhea and extreme muscle pain. She tried to rapid detox off methadone. It was so sad!
I agree that it should be abolished.

I have read many people say mild addiction or minimal addiction in some posts.
There is no ‘mild’ or, ‘minimal’ addiction! They are all painful and all life changing.
I was at one time psychologically addicted to marijuana. That was the hardest drug to overcome!! I had no motivation, I was depressed and thought I would never ‘recover.’
Peace to all!
Callie

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] “Ibogaine alternatives” in psychedelic therapy
Date: October 8, 2003 at 2:37:33 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

What really hurts is to be rapidly detoxed and then a narcan implant put under your skin! My girl friend had this done and she was begging me, since I am a nurse, to ‘get the implant out’!! Of course, I couldn’t do that and she was sick for 2 months with stomach cramps, diarrhea and extreme muscle pain. She tried to rapid detox off methadone. It was so sad!
I agree that it should be abolished.

I have read many people say mild addiction or minimal addiction in some posts.
There is no ‘mild’ or, ‘minimal’ addiction! They are all painful and all life changing.
I was at one time psychologically addicted to marijuana. That was the hardest drug to overcome!! I had no motivation, I was depressed and thought I would never ‘recover.’
Peace to all!
Callie

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] “Ibogaine alternatives” in psychedelic therapy
Date: October 8, 2003 at 2:35:12 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jonathan

It has been shown that administration of ketamine
with morphine reduces
or prevents the development of morphine tolerance,

So does DXM.

so these two are
sometimes used in conjunction with each other in
chronic pain patients.

There is also somewhat of a difference in what happens
(in the brain/body) when a pain patient takes a drug
for pain and an addict abuses something to get high.
They, or I should say “we” tend to have an easier time
stopping, I would have no reason to take ibogaine to
detox myself (oxycontin) unless I felt like seeing
what it is like to detox using ibogaine.

I’m not sure what the “trip” on Ibogaine is like,

Very long. It is not “like” anything I ever felt
before but it is NOT like tripping
(mushrooms/acid…). It is NOT generally considered
fun; it is very long, arduous, disgusting, nausea,
often vomiting, ataxia, abdominal discomfort…
Basically you feel sick and it takes a day to several
days to recover, during that time, you feel sick. Like
drugs backwards, first you crash then you get high.
No-one takes ibo for how it feels (YUCK!) they take it
for what it does.

but perhaps if it is
not quite meeting God the goal should be to get
people detoxed first,

There is no better detoxing agent than ibogaine and no
reason to detox first for a drug addict – that is the
point of the ibogaine.

and get them to see if perhaps there’s something
beyond the veil after
that.  (Seems like this could at least do no worse

Ibogaine is quite capable of lifting that veil during
an opiate detox though it generally puts its effort
into the detox, and fewer visions. Ibogaine also works
for a long time after, it is a medicine that stays in
the body for extended periods of time with multiple
modes of action. It is more than just removing the
physical addiction, it kind of scrubs you, heals you,
stays with you, gives you strength, stamina, clarity,
opens you up, improves mood… for months. A typical
“how long” is about 6 months from a single dose –
which was about when I started having problems.

Brett

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping – with improved product search
http://shopping.yahoo.com

From: “Brad Fisher” <brad.fisher@guaranty.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] “Ibogaine alternatives” in psychedelic therapy
Date: October 8, 2003 at 2:31:54 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The hospitals should not be allowed to do it in my opinion. I would like to
put the Dr.’s who promote it through it.
bf

—–Original Message—–
From: Armstrong, Jonathan R [mailto:jonathan.armstrong@qwest.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 8:40 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] “Ibogaine alternatives” in psychedelic therapy

A friend of a friend here just died after receiving ROD following a
fairly short term oxycodone addiction.  Not sure about the specifics of
this.

Real nice, you know, he just had triplets after trying to have children
for many many years.  Super clean-cut ex-Marine type guy too, just got
addicted to them after back surgery & the inevitable stress of having 3
kids at once.  Of course, it’s people like this who generally have the
most problems with addiction.  I mean, people who are pharmocophiles
like myself will know the specifics of this or that but straight people
just want to get off the shit, see the add in the back of their local
‘alternative’ weekly and give it a call.

—–Original Message—–
From: Brad Fisher [mailto:brad.fisher@guaranty.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 8:20 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] “Ibogaine alternatives” in psychedelic therapy

Jonathan mentioned “rapid detox”, I spent $15,000.00 at a hospital in
Portland,Or. approx 5-6 yrs. ago. Was the MOST HORRIBLE experiance of my
53 yrs on earth. bf

—–Original Message—–
From: Armstrong, Jonathan R [mailto:jonathan.armstrong@qwest.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 5:40 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] “Ibogaine alternatives” in psychedelic therapy

I’d long heard reports (or perhaps just hazy recollections of stuff I’d
read other places) that other psychedelics (such as ketamine and
ayahuasca) can help interrupt or mediate addiction.  Obviously this
raises the whole chicken-or-the-egg thing here about treating the soul
as well as the body, but I’m talking about perhaps using Ibogaine in
conjunction (not at the same time!) or possibly in adjunct to some other
sorta psychedelic therapy.  Unfortunately, I can’t find any references
on the ayahuasca thing.  Can anyone help?

It has been shown that administration of ketamine with morphine reduces
or prevents the development of morphine tolerance, so these two are
sometimes used in conjunction with each other in chronic pain patients.
There is this psychiatrist, Evgeny Krupitsky, who has been treating
alcoholics and heroin addicts using ketamine fairly successfully
(slightly over the regular relapse margin, which is good, if you
consider that famous experiment that Timothy Leary did where he found
that the relapse rate was approximately the same upon doing nothing at
all as it was with regular therapy anyway – but I digress).

I’m not sure what the “trip” on Ibogaine is like, but perhaps if it is
not quite meeting God the goal should be to get people detoxed first,
and get them to see if perhaps there’s something beyond the veil after
that.  (Seems like this could at least do no worse than the usual MO of
sitting around and watching television until the Librium wears off, but
this is all from anecdotal reports I’ve heard from other people.)
Everything I’ve heard about that “rapid detox” is that it is absolutely
horrible.

OK, there was a point to this message in posting a buncha references but
my ride is here and it’s already been a long day.  If you’re interested
I’ll post them tomorrow (or more than likely, as is usually the case,
this will not get any responses, but hell, just throwing that out
there.)

Later,
Jonathan

From: “Armstrong, Jonathan R” <jonathan.armstrong@qwest.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] “Ibogaine alternatives” in psychedelic therapy
Date: October 8, 2003 at 11:40:19 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

A friend of a friend here just died after receiving ROD following a
fairly short term oxycodone addiction.  Not sure about the specifics of
this.

Real nice, you know, he just had triplets after trying to have children
for many many years.  Super clean-cut ex-Marine type guy too, just got
addicted to them after back surgery & the inevitable stress of having 3
kids at once.  Of course, it’s people like this who generally have the
most problems with addiction.  I mean, people who are pharmocophiles
like myself will know the specifics of this or that but straight people
just want to get off the shit, see the add in the back of their local
‘alternative’ weekly and give it a call.

—–Original Message—–
From: Brad Fisher [mailto:brad.fisher@guaranty.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 8:20 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] “Ibogaine alternatives” in psychedelic therapy

Jonathan mentioned “rapid detox”, I spent $15,000.00 at a hospital in
Portland,Or. approx 5-6 yrs. ago. Was the MOST HORRIBLE experiance of my
53 yrs on earth. bf

—–Original Message—–
From: Armstrong, Jonathan R [mailto:jonathan.armstrong@qwest.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 5:40 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] “Ibogaine alternatives” in psychedelic therapy

I’d long heard reports (or perhaps just hazy recollections of stuff I’d
read other places) that other psychedelics (such as ketamine and
ayahuasca) can help interrupt or mediate addiction.  Obviously this
raises the whole chicken-or-the-egg thing here about treating the soul
as well as the body, but I’m talking about perhaps using Ibogaine in
conjunction (not at the same time!) or possibly in adjunct to some other
sorta psychedelic therapy.  Unfortunately, I can’t find any references
on the ayahuasca thing.  Can anyone help?

It has been shown that administration of ketamine with morphine reduces
or prevents the development of morphine tolerance, so these two are
sometimes used in conjunction with each other in chronic pain patients.
There is this psychiatrist, Evgeny Krupitsky, who has been treating
alcoholics and heroin addicts using ketamine fairly successfully
(slightly over the regular relapse margin, which is good, if you
consider that famous experiment that Timothy Leary did where he found
that the relapse rate was approximately the same upon doing nothing at
all as it was with regular therapy anyway – but I digress).

I’m not sure what the “trip” on Ibogaine is like, but perhaps if it is
not quite meeting God the goal should be to get people detoxed first,
and get them to see if perhaps there’s something beyond the veil after
that.  (Seems like this could at least do no worse than the usual MO of
sitting around and watching television until the Librium wears off, but
this is all from anecdotal reports I’ve heard from other people.)
Everything I’ve heard about that “rapid detox” is that it is absolutely
horrible.

OK, there was a point to this message in posting a buncha references but
my ride is here and it’s already been a long day.  If you’re interested
I’ll post them tomorrow (or more than likely, as is usually the case,
this will not get any responses, but hell, just throwing that out
there.)

Later,
Jonathan

From: “Brad Fisher” <brad.fisher@guaranty.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] “Ibogaine alternatives” in psychedelic therapy
Date: October 8, 2003 at 10:19:44 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jonathan mentioned “rapid detox”, I spent $15,000.00 at a hospital in
Portland,Or. approx 5-6 yrs. ago. Was the MOST HORRIBLE experiance of my 53
yrs on earth.
bf

—–Original Message—–
From: Armstrong, Jonathan R [mailto:jonathan.armstrong@qwest.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 5:40 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] “Ibogaine alternatives” in psychedelic therapy

I’d long heard reports (or perhaps just hazy recollections of stuff I’d
read other places) that other psychedelics (such as ketamine and
ayahuasca) can help interrupt or mediate addiction.  Obviously this
raises the whole chicken-or-the-egg thing here about treating the soul
as well as the body, but I’m talking about perhaps using Ibogaine in
conjunction (not at the same time!) or possibly in adjunct to some other
sorta psychedelic therapy.  Unfortunately, I can’t find any references
on the ayahuasca thing.  Can anyone help?

It has been shown that administration of ketamine with morphine reduces
or prevents the development of morphine tolerance, so these two are
sometimes used in conjunction with each other in chronic pain patients.
There is this psychiatrist, Evgeny Krupitsky, who has been treating
alcoholics and heroin addicts using ketamine fairly successfully
(slightly over the regular relapse margin, which is good, if you
consider that famous experiment that Timothy Leary did where he found
that the relapse rate was approximately the same upon doing nothing at
all as it was with regular therapy anyway – but I digress).

I’m not sure what the “trip” on Ibogaine is like, but perhaps if it is
not quite meeting God the goal should be to get people detoxed first,
and get them to see if perhaps there’s something beyond the veil after
that.  (Seems like this could at least do no worse than the usual MO of
sitting around and watching television until the Librium wears off, but
this is all from anecdotal reports I’ve heard from other people.)
Everything I’ve heard about that “rapid detox” is that it is absolutely
horrible.

OK, there was a point to this message in posting a buncha references but
my ride is here and it’s already been a long day.  If you’re interested
I’ll post them tomorrow (or more than likely, as is usually the case,
this will not get any responses, but hell, just throwing that out
there.)

Later,
Jonathan

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] looking for british people considering ibogaine treatment
Date: October 8, 2003 at 7:47:24 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com, orbitalannie@hotmail.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Annie, sure wish I was British cause I am desiring Ibogaine treatment. If you become aware of any studies close to the States or in the USA, please post them here.
Good luck with your study!
Tammy Nix
Nashville, TN

From: “annie B” <orbitalannie@hotmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] looking for british people considering ibogaine treatment
Date: October 8, 2003 at 7:39:49 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hello all
I’m a researcher looking to make contact with british people who are considering ibogaine treatment.
I’m not sure how the etiquette on message boards like this works, so I hope it’s OK to put an appeal out like this.
If you are in this position and would be happy to speak to me, please contact me at orbitalannie@hotmail.com, or as a part of this list, and I can go into more detail.
Thanks very much
annie
07771 896 014

Protect your PC from e-mail viruses. Get MSN 8 today.

From: “sara” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] “Ibogaine alternatives” in psychedelic therapy
Date: October 8, 2003 at 3:41:41 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jocy,
Normaly it takes three/ four days to physically kick Heroin, the ayahuasca will not help the withdrawals but will help the state of mind,
Depression is the most common reason for people to use Heroin, the Ayahuasca can help depression, but also Syrian rue and cubansis can do that.
If taken in the right dosage and with guideness (first time).
Taking iboga at first will empty some of the blokadges and the Ayahuasca will refill the emptiness will a warm feeling for a while, Ayahuasca treatment should be repeated.
It is also possible to maintain in a good state of mind by doing bodywork exercise and meditation.
This is what I have been working with the last one and half years, only this treatment isn’t a quick fix.

Regards,

Sara
From: David Carrau’s Girl <bleed_pretty_girl@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Kratom for treating opiate dependence
Date: October 8, 2003 at 12:55:10 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

www.erowid.org

Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu> wrote:
In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

> The general feeling I’m getting here is that this showed some promise in
> treating opiate addiction, yet it has never jelled into much more than
> preliminary research. It seems all but unknown in the West. Has anyone
> had any first-hand experience with this? I can’t find any bioassay
> reports out there on the Web, other than the one in the last link given,
> where a Swiss biologist described the effects of smoking Kratom leaves
> as “similar to SSRI’s – it made everything boring.” Not exactly the
> sort of report that would make one long for it, although the fact that
> it’s been illegal for 60 years in Thailand surely must mean something.

i felt smoking kratom was something vaguely akin to taking codeine and
caffeine together…

Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping – with improved product search

From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Kratom for treating opiate dependence
Date: October 7, 2003 at 11:36:31 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

The general feeling I’m getting here is that this showed some promise in
treating opiate addiction, yet it has never jelled into much more than
preliminary research.  It seems all but unknown in the West.  Has anyone
had any first-hand experience with this? I can’t find any bioassay
reports out there on the Web, other than the one in the last link given,
where a Swiss biologist described the effects of smoking Kratom leaves
as “similar to SSRI’s – it made everything boring.”  Not exactly the
sort of report that would make one long for it, although the fact that
it’s been illegal for 60 years in Thailand surely must mean something.

i felt smoking kratom was something vaguely akin to taking codeine and
caffeine together…

From: “jocy” <jr@israven.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] “Ibogaine alternatives” in psychedelic therapy
Date: October 7, 2003 at 8:48:07 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

There is a comunity terapeutic in peru the name is Takiwasi, they trat adicts with ayahuaska, there is a eligion in Brasil that they use the ayahuaska too, Santo Daime and Union du Vegetal, you can chek .www.ayahuasca-wasi.com
regards Jocy

——-Mensaje original——-

De: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Fecha: Martes, 07 de Octubre de 2003 08:40:34 p.
A: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Asunto: [ibogaine] “Ibogaine alternatives” in psychedelic therapy

I’d long heard reports (or perhaps just hazy recollections of stuff I’d
read other places) that other psychedelics (such as ketamine and
ayahuasca) can help interrupt or mediate addiction. Obviously this
raises the whole chicken-or-the-egg thing here about treating the soul
as well as the body, but I’m talking about perhaps using Ibogaine in
conjunction (not at the same time!) or possibly in adjunct to some other
sorta psychedelic therapy. Unfortunately, I can’t find any references
on the ayahuasca thing. Can anyone help?

It has been shown that administration of ketamine with morphine reduces
or prevents the development of morphine tolerance, so these two are
sometimes used in conjunction with each other in chronic pain patients.
There is this psychiatrist, Evgeny Krupitsky, who has been treating
alcoholics and heroin addicts using ketamine fairly successfully
(slightly over the regular relapse margin, which is good, if you
consider that famous experiment that Timothy Leary did where he found
that the relapse rate was approximately the same upon doing nothing at
all as it was with regular therapy anyway – but I digress).

I’m not sure what the “trip” on Ibogaine is like, but perhaps if it is
not quite meeting God the goal should be to get people detoxed first,
and get them to see if perhaps there’s something beyond the veil after
that. (Seems like this could at least do no worse than the usual MO of
sitting around and watching television until the Librium wears off, but
this is all from anecdotal reports I’ve heard from other people.)
Everything I’ve heard about that “rapid detox” is that it is absolutely
horrible.

OK, there was a point to this message in posting a buncha references but
my ride is here and it’s already been a long day. If you’re interested
I’ll post them tomorrow (or more than likely, as is usually the case,
this will not get any responses, but hell, just throwing that out
there.)

Later,
Jonathan

.

_________________________________________________________________
IncrediMail – El E-mail ha evolucionado finalmente – Haga clic aquí

From: “Armstrong, Jonathan R” <jonathan.armstrong@qwest.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] “Ibogaine alternatives” in psychedelic therapy
Date: October 7, 2003 at 8:39:59 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’d long heard reports (or perhaps just hazy recollections of stuff I’d
read other places) that other psychedelics (such as ketamine and
ayahuasca) can help interrupt or mediate addiction.  Obviously this
raises the whole chicken-or-the-egg thing here about treating the soul
as well as the body, but I’m talking about perhaps using Ibogaine in
conjunction (not at the same time!) or possibly in adjunct to some other
sorta psychedelic therapy.  Unfortunately, I can’t find any references
on the ayahuasca thing.  Can anyone help?

It has been shown that administration of ketamine with morphine reduces
or prevents the development of morphine tolerance, so these two are
sometimes used in conjunction with each other in chronic pain patients.
There is this psychiatrist, Evgeny Krupitsky, who has been treating
alcoholics and heroin addicts using ketamine fairly successfully
(slightly over the regular relapse margin, which is good, if you
consider that famous experiment that Timothy Leary did where he found
that the relapse rate was approximately the same upon doing nothing at
all as it was with regular therapy anyway – but I digress).

I’m not sure what the “trip” on Ibogaine is like, but perhaps if it is
not quite meeting God the goal should be to get people detoxed first,
and get them to see if perhaps there’s something beyond the veil after
that.  (Seems like this could at least do no worse than the usual MO of
sitting around and watching television until the Librium wears off, but
this is all from anecdotal reports I’ve heard from other people.)
Everything I’ve heard about that “rapid detox” is that it is absolutely
horrible.

OK, there was a point to this message in posting a buncha references but
my ride is here and it’s already been a long day.  If you’re interested
I’ll post them tomorrow (or more than likely, as is usually the case,
this will not get any responses, but hell, just throwing that out
there.)

Later,
Jonathan

From: “Armstrong, Jonathan R” <jonathan.armstrong@qwest.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Kratom for treating opiate dependence
Date: October 7, 2003 at 8:18:12 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Has there ever been any more research done on the Kratom tree – it is a
tree containing psychoactive alkaloids that were believed to have a
future in treating opiate dependence, but I have only found a couple of
general references to this:

Jansen, K & C. Prast (1988a) “The ethnopharmacology of Kratom and the
mitragyna alkaloids,” Journal of Ethnopharmacology 23(1):115-119

Jansen, K. & C. Prast (1988b) “The psychoactive properties of
mitragynine,” Journal of Psychoactive Drugs 20(4): 455-457

There’s also a few decent web references floating around:

http://www.arbec.com.my/pdf/may-4.pdf
www.lycaeum.org/drugs/SSRI/mitragy.html
http://www.botanic-art.com/Kratom.htm
www.erowid.org/plants/kratom/kratom_info1.shtml

The general feeling I’m getting here is that this showed some promise in
treating opiate addiction, yet it has never jelled into much more than
preliminary research.  It seems all but unknown in the West.  Has anyone
had any first-hand experience with this? I can’t find any bioassay
reports out there on the Web, other than the one in the last link given,
where a Swiss biologist described the effects of smoking Kratom leaves
as “similar to SSRI’s – it made everything boring.”  Not exactly the
sort of report that would make one long for it, although the fact that
it’s been illegal for 60 years in Thailand surely must mean something.

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fw: Heavy drinking and illicit drug use common in London methadone patients – were doses adequate? Research summary by Dr Richard Hallinan.
Date: October 7, 2003 at 3:53:16 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: “Andrew Byrne” <ajbyrne@ozemail.com.au>
To: “Andrew Byrne” <ajbyrne@ozemail.com.au>
Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 5:51 PM
Subject: Heavy drinking and illicit drug use common in London methadone
patients – were doses adequate? Research summary by Dr Richard Hallinan.

Excessive alcohol consumption and drinking expectations among clients in
methadone maintenance. Hillebrand J, Marsden J, Finch E, Strang J.
Journal of Substance Abuse Treatment (2001) 21(3):155-60

Dear Colleagues

This study (abstract below) investigated the prevalence and
psychological determinants of alcohol consumption in 66 MMT clients in
South London in 1999, using the framework of the Theory of Reasoned
Behaviour (Ajzen and Fishbein, 1980). By a sensitive criterion of 3 or
more of 8 DSM-IV markers of alcohol dependence, 54% of surveyed clients
were alcohol dependent in the previous 12 months. In some cases this
period could have preceded the time in MMT, which together with the
sensitive criterion of alcohol dependence may have given a liberal
estimate of this problem in MMT clients, however the results are
consistent with many previous studies showing a high prevalence of
alcohol dependency in MMT clients in the US and UK.

The study participants had been in treatment at least a month (mean 28.4
months), and were dosed at community pharmacies with a mean dose of 49mg
(SD 27mg). There were also high levels of recent use of heroin (62%),
stimulants (47%) and benzodiazepines (32%).

The researchers examined the clients’ perceived functions for alcohol
use, and found 84% used it to relax, 68% to relieve boredom, 66% to
improve low mood, 64% to forget problems, 54% to help them sleep and 30%
to increase the effect of methadone; 28% to get going in the morning;
24% to stop feeling sick in the morning. 24% used it to calm down after
using other drugs.

The strongest predictor of clients’ expectation of change in their own
drinking was ‘subjective norms’, suggesting their susceptibility to the
views of ‘important others’ around them, potentially including MMT
staff. The use of alcohol to perform particular functions was also a
strong predictor of low expectation of change, suggesting that if these
specific functions could be served in other ways, clients may be more
susceptible of change in their drinking behaviour. The dose of methadone
was significantly and negatively related to expectation of change in
drinking.

The mechanism for determination of methadone doses in this client group
is not specified in the report; in particular it is not apparent whether
there were actual or perceived ceilings to methadone dosing.

The MMT clients reported in this study apparently received a
considerable range of doses but the mean dose was lower than the minimum
60mg daily recommended by the US National Institutes of Health consensus
panel guidelines (1997).  Only 35.5% of MMT clients in the US were
receiving doses less than 60mg daily in 2000, down from 79.5% in 1988
(D’Aunno and Pollack 2000). Ball and Ross (1991) found that prevalence
of heroin use fell to under 10% only with MMT doses higher than 50mg
daily. In a study of 211 MMT patients Eap et al (2000) found a trough
R,S- methadone level of 400 ng/ml was a significant therapeutic
threshold with an 81% specificity for absence of heroin use, a level
achievable with a mean dose of circa 80mg daily (Wolff et al 1991).

Hillebrand et al’s study should thus be examined through the prism of
possible underdosing, which is strongly suggested by the high prevalence
of continuing heroin use. Most of the specific perceived functions of
alcohol use which they identified (viz to relax, relieve low mood, get
to sleep, get going or stop feeling sick in the morning, to augment the
effect of methadone) could be interpreted as self medication of symptoms

of abstinence. Borg et al 1995 found methadone levels under 150 ng/ml in
9 of 10 patients with such symptoms, and reported “Early opioid
withdrawal, requiring a higher dose of methadone, is often difficult to
diagnose because many of the symptoms are also symptoms of other
syndromes common in the methadone maintenance population.”

The authors identified a negative correlation of dose of methadone with
expectation of change in drinking behaviour, which they speculate may
reflect a greater ‘attachment’ to their drinking behaviour in higher
dose clients. This finding needs scrutiny considering the limited
information given about dosing practices. On the figures given, at least
95% of the clients had doses less than 103 mg daily (ie mean+2xSD). In a
situation where there is considerable dosing within actual or perceived
limits, higher dose clients are more likely include those limited by a
‘ceiling’. Thus, paradoxically, higher doses could be associated with a
greater likelihood of underdosing, explaining the  greater ‘attachment’
of some higher dose
clients to their drinking. The fact that the association of high dose
with lower expectation of change was independent of perceived functions
of alcohol, need only imply that the function of alcohol in alleviating
symptoms of abstinence is not always perceived as such.

The strongest positive predictor of expectations was found to be
subjective norms, evidence of the importance of the MMT environment in
addressing problematic alcohol consumption. The power of subjective
norms also suggests a mechanism by which clients might limit their own
doses to ‘acceptable’ limits and fail to perceive the extent to which
alcohol is used to alleviate symptoms.

Clients who felt they were using alcohol for specific functions were
less likely to expect change in their drinking. The simplest alternative
to alcohol for many of the functions identified by the researchers might
be methadone dose titration.

In contrast to the good evidence that adequate doses of methadone can
reduce cocaine use, there is only a modest literature of observational
studies suggesting the same for alcohol and benzodiazepines Byrne 1998
Maxwell and Shinderman 1999, Tennant 1987, Stimmel et al 1982, Gelkopf
et al 1999. Recently Lubrano et al 2002 et al have described high levels
of craving for alcohol in MMT patients receiving low doses. Hillebrand
et al’s simple and elegant study highlights the need for further
research to evaluate the issue of adequacy of methadone dose in dealing
with the important problem of alcohol use in MMT.

Comments by Dr Richard Hallinan, 75 Redfern St, Redfern, 2016

Refs:

Ajzen, I., and Fishbein, M. (1980) Understanding attitudes and
predicting social behaviour. London: Prentice-Hall International.

Ball, J.C., and Ross, A. The effectiveness of Methadone Maintenance
Treatment. New York: Springer-Verlag, 1991.

Borg L, Ho A, Peters JE, Kreek MJ. Availability of reliable serum
methadone
determination for management of symptomatic patients. J Addict Dis
1995;14(3):83-96

Byrne, A. Use of serum levels for optimising doses in methadone
maintenance treatment. J Main Addict 1998; 1: 13-4.

D’Aunno T, Pollack HA. Changes in methadone treatment practices: results
from a national panel study, 1988-2000. JAMA. 2002 Aug 21;288(7):850-6.

Eap CB, Bourquin M, Martin J, Spagnoli J, Livoti S, Powell K, Baumann P,
Deglon J. Plasma concentrations of the enantiomers of methadone and
therapeutic response in methadone maintenance treatment. Drug Alcohol
Depend. 2000 Dec 22;61(1):47-54.

Gelkopf M, Bleich A, Hayward R, Bodner G, Adelson M. Characteristics of
benzodiazepine abuse in methadone maintenance treatment patients: a 1
year prospective study in an Israeli clinic. Drug Alcohol Depend. 1999
Jun 1;55(1-2):63-

Maxwell S, Shinderman M. Optimizing response to methadone maintenance
treatment: use of higher-dose methadone. J Psychoactive Drugs. 1999
Apr-Jun;31(2):95-102.

Stimmel B, Hanbury R, Sturiano V, Korts D, Jackson G, Cohen M.
Alcoholism as a risk factor in methadone maintenance. A randomized
controlled trial. Am J Med  1982 Nov;73(5):631-6

Tennant FS Jr. Inadequate plasma concentrations in some high-dose
methadone maintenance patients. Am J Psychiatry. 1987 Oct;144(10):1349-50.

Hillebrand J, Marsden J, Finch E, Strang J. Excessive alcohol
consumption and  drinking expectations among clients in methadone
maintenance. J Subst Abuse Treat. (2001) 21(3):155-60

National Addiction Centre Institute of Psychiatry, Maudsley Hospital 4,
Windsor Walk, London SE5 8AF, UK.

Abstract:
Excessive alcohol consumption and related problems are common among
clients in methadone maintenance treatment (MMT), yet relatively little
is known about the psychological and social determinants of
alcohol-related attitudes and behaviors during treatment. This study
reports on the prevalence of alcohol dependence, patterns of alcohol
consumption and preliminary findings about clients’ beliefs that they
will change their drinking behavior in the future. Data were gathered
from personal interviews with 66 clients attending a MMT program in
South London (some 80.5% of the eligible caseload). Forty-one percent of
the overall sample met DSM-IV criteria for alcohol dependence in the
past 12 months. Among clients who reported drinking in the past month (n
= 50), 54% were classified as dependent, and these clients reported
consuming an average of 23.5 UK standard units of absolute alcohol
(188g/6.58 ounces) on a typical drinking day in the past month.
Exploratory analyses suggested that expectations to change drinking
behavior were predicted by subjective norms (social pressures),
perceived functions of alcohol use, past drinking levels and current
dose of methadone. Clinicians engaged in alcohol problems assessment and
counselling during MMT could usefully examine these influences to
strengthen treatment provision.

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Buprenorphine and Iboga and Yage
Date: October 6, 2003 at 8:18:01 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 10/6/03 11:27:38 PM, bcalabrese@yahoo.com writes:

I do not have “citations” off hand and can’t find
anything doing searches but am quite certain of my
memory. Mash is one source of the nor-ibogaine
“theory”, if Glick thinks it is ibogaine (vs
nor-ibogaine) that is a new theory to me – medline is
full of nor-ibogaine theories. I do know that ibogine
does soak into tissue and can be released on death.
From forensic studies it is the reason behind the
seemingly unusually high levels of ibogaine in the
blood for the dose taken – cause that soaked up
ibogaine gets released when someone dies – so there is
the appearance of a higher amount of ibogaine taken.
Could it be ibogaine and not nor-ibogaine, I have no
clue, only that I understood ibogaine to be
metabolized in about 6 hours (or 8 total) from peak
blood concentration (cleared) and it was GONE, nor-ibo
was suppose to be left in fat/brain as noted.

I will do some looking, see if I can find it/them.

Brett,

Here are two citations that address the issue.  I believe noribogaine is
water soluble and not fat soluble.  The issue of the high levels of ibogaine and
noribogaine  are known as an “artifact of death” and have nothing as far as I
know to do with the normal metabolism and excretion of either ibogaine or its
principal metabolite, noribogaine.

Howard

Methods Find Exp Clin Pharmacol. 2000 Mar;22(2):77-81.

Pharmacokinetic characterization of the indole alkaloid ibogaine in rats.

Hough LB, Bagal AA, Glick SD.

Department of Pharmacology & Neuroscience, Albany Medical College, NY, USA.
houghl@mail.amc.edu

To investigate the pharmacokinetic properties of ibogaine, a putatively
anti-addictive alkaloid, levels of this drug were quantified in plasma and tissues
for up to 3 h following i.v. infusion in rats. Immediately following a 31-35
min infusion (20 mg/kg), mean plasma ibogaine levels were 373 ng/ml; these
values declined rapidly thereafter in a biexponential manner. The plasma time
course in 5 of 7 animals demonstrated an excellent fit to a two-compartment
pharmacokinetic model, with alpha and beta half-lives of 7.3 min and 3.3 h,
respectively. Drug clearance was estimated to be 5.9 l/h (n = 7). Ibogaine levels in
brain, liver and kidney 3 h after the end of drug infusion were 143-170 ng/g,
close to simulated values for the peripheral pharmacokinetic compartment.
However, 3-h drug levels in adipose tissue were much higher (3,328 ng/g), implying
the need for a more complex pharmacokinetic model. Mechanisms for the initial,
rapid disappearance of plasma ibogaine are thought to include metabolic
demethylation as well as redistribution to body stores. The sequestration of
ibogaine by adipose tissue probably contributes to a protracted persistence of drug
in the body. This persistence may be underestimated by the beta half-life
reported in the present study.
********************************************************************

Life Sci. 1996;58(7):PL119-22.

Tissue distribution of ibogaine after intraperitoneal and subcutaneous
administration.

Hough LB, Pearl SM, Glick SD.

Department of Pharmacology and Neuroscience, Albany Medical College, NY
12208, USA.

The distribution of the putative anti-addictive substance ibogaine was
measured in plasma, brain, kidney, liver and fat after ip and sc administration in
rats. One hr after ip dosing (40 mg/kg), drug levels ranged from 106 ng/ml
(plasma) to 11,308 ng/g (fat), with significantly higher values after sc
administration of the same dose. Drug levels were 10-20 fold lower 12 hr after the same
dose. These results suggest that: 1) ibogaine is subject to a substantial
“first pass” effect after ip dosing, demonstrated by higher drug levels following
the sc route, 2) ibogaine shows a large accumulation in adipose tissue,
consistent with its lipophilic nature, and 3) persistence of the drug in fat may
contribute to a long duration of action.

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Buprenorphine and Iboga and Yage
Date: October 6, 2003 at 7:00:06 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Howard.

I do not have “citations” off hand and can’t find
anything doing searches but am quite certain of my
memory. Mash is one source of the nor-ibogaine
“theory”, if Glick thinks it is ibogaine (vs
nor-ibogaine) that is a new theory to me – medline is
full of nor-ibogaine theories. I do know that ibogine
does soak into tissue and can be released on death.
From forensic studies it is the reason behind the
seemingly unusually high levels of ibogaine in the
blood for the dose taken – cause that soaked up
ibogaine gets released when someone dies – so there is
the appearance of a higher amount of ibogaine taken.
Could it be ibogaine and not nor-ibogaine, I have no
clue, only that I understood ibogaine to be
metabolized in about 6 hours (or 8 total) from peak
blood concentration (cleared) and it was GONE, nor-ibo
was suppose to be left in fat/brain as noted.

I will do some looking, see if I can find it/them.

Brett

— HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 10/6/03 6:59:54 PM,
bcalabrese@yahoo.com writes:

A
single dose of ibogaine deposits nor-ibogaine in
fat
and brain cells to the tune of 100 and 30 times
blood
concentrations

Brett,

Can I have your source for this information.  Glick
believes that ibogaine is
deposited in fat and as it is released is
metabolized into noribogaine.  My
perception is no one has recorded ibogaine post 30
days ibogaine
administration.  However, as my memory is not to be
counted on I would look forward to your
citations on the noribogaine.

Thanks

Howard

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping – with improved product search
http://shopping.yahoo.com

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] aliens?
Date: October 6, 2003 at 4:42:29 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

lol! good! maybe i should stop taking every little word so literally!lol!
i am just so excited and interested that i am trying to be a sponge and soak it all in!
callie

From: “Tommy” <tgoodson7@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] reply to Pub on Iboga
Date: October 6, 2003 at 4:39:23 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: Tommy
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 3:30 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] reply to Pub on Iboga

—– Original Message —–
From: Tommy
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 3:28 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] reply to Pub on Iboga

Callie:  Get in touch with Eric Taub in Gainsville, Florida at e-mail ibeginagan@aol.com.  He has
treated over 400 patients and is very good.  Also, Marc Emery has a good reputation located in
Vancouver, B.C.,Canada.  My Grandson was treated by Eric Taub and he idolizes both Eric and
Ibogaine.

My Grandson took the cure 2 or 3 years ago.  He has been in and out of jail 5 or 6 times since he took the cure and has never had WITHDRAWAL pains since he took Ibogaine.  He is currently in
on a 5 year sentence with 2 to 3 years to go before release.  He is in for transgressions committed
before he took the Ibogaine.  He swears by Ibogaine.

Eric Taub has a support group operating right there in Gainesville.  Several of his patients have re-located in Gainesville and are doing quit well post Ibogaine!.   You mentioned that you would be able to re-locate if necessary.  Taub’s Phone is—Get it from him.

Tommy Goodson
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 1:40 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] reply to Pub on Iboga

No, you are not spouting off! I have no one to communicate with about decreasing my dose except my methadone counselor who has never got a buzz in her life much less kicked dope! lol! The other folks at the clinic are only interested in talking about ways to get more methadone or how they are going to pay for their next week of treatment. I am just sick and tired of the clinic but I am very fearful of detoxing and leaving the clinic too. My life has been so ‘normal’ since I have gotten on Methadone. I know it is a bitch to quit and until I heard of Ibogaine I had pretty much resolved myself to being on Methadone Maintenance forever.
I indeed plan to start putting back some $$ and to start decreasing my Methadone dose in preparation for my Ibogaine treatment. It may take me a year but it has taken me 27 years(20 years old when started narcotics) to get where I am today!
Thanks so much to everyone who replies to my posts. I GREATLY appreciate it!
Peace, Callie

From: “Tommy” <tgoodson7@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] reply to Pub on Iboga
Date: October 6, 2003 at 4:30:30 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: Tommy
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 3:28 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] reply to Pub on Iboga

Callie:  Get in touch with Eric Taub in Gainsville, Florida at e-mail ibeginagan@aol.com.  He has
treated over 400 patients and is very good.  Also, Marc Emery has a good reputation located in
Vancouver, B.C.,Canada.  My Grandson was treated by Eric Taub and he idolizes both Eric and
Ibogaine.

My Grandson took the cure 2 or 3 years ago.  He has been in and out of jail 5 or 6 times since he took the cure and has never had WITHDRAWAL pains since he took Ibogaine.  He is currently in
on a 5 year sentence with 2 to 3 years to go before release.  He is in for transgressions committed
before he took the Ibogaine.  He swears by Ibogaine.

Eric Taub has a support group operating right there in Gainesville.  Several of his patients have re-located in Gainesville and are doing quit well post Ibogaine!.   You mentioned that you would be able to re-locate if necessary.  Taub’s Phone is—Get it from him.

Tommy Goodson
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 1:40 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] reply to Pub on Iboga

No, you are not spouting off! I have no one to communicate with about decreasing my dose except my methadone counselor who has never got a buzz in her life much less kicked dope! lol! The other folks at the clinic are only interested in talking about ways to get more methadone or how they are going to pay for their next week of treatment. I am just sick and tired of the clinic but I am very fearful of detoxing and leaving the clinic too. My life has been so ‘normal’ since I have gotten on Methadone. I know it is a bitch to quit and until I heard of Ibogaine I had pretty much resolved myself to being on Methadone Maintenance forever.
I indeed plan to start putting back some $$ and to start decreasing my Methadone dose in preparation for my Ibogaine treatment. It may take me a year but it has taken me 27 years(20 years old when started narcotics) to get where I am today!
Thanks so much to everyone who replies to my posts. I GREATLY appreciate it!
Peace, Callie

From: “Tommy” <tgoodson7@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] reply to Pub on Iboga
Date: October 6, 2003 at 4:28:24 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Callie:  Get in touch with Eric Taub in Gainsville, Florida at e-mail ibeginagan@aol.com.  He has
treated over 400 patients and is very good.  Also, Marc Emery has a good reputation located in
Vancouver, B.C.,Canada.  My Grandson was treated by Eric Taub and he idolizes both Eric and
Ibogaine.

My Grandson took the cure 2 or 3 years ago.  He has been in and out of jail 5 or 6 times since he took the cure and has never had WITHDRAWAL pains since he took Ibogaine.  He is currently in
on a 5 year sentence with 2 to 3 years to go before release.  He is in for transgressions committed
before he took the Ibogaine.  He swears by Ibogaine.

Eric Taub has a support group operating right there in Gainesville.  Several of his patients have re-located in Gainesville and are doing quit well post Ibogaine!.   You mentioned that you would be able to re-locate if necessary.  Taub’s Phone is—Get it from him.

Tommy Goodson
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 1:40 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] reply to Pub on Iboga

No, you are not spouting off! I have no one to communicate with about decreasing my dose except my methadone counselor who has never got a buzz in her life much less kicked dope! lol! The other folks at the clinic are only interested in talking about ways to get more methadone or how they are going to pay for their next week of treatment. I am just sick and tired of the clinic but I am very fearful of detoxing and leaving the clinic too. My life has been so ‘normal’ since I have gotten on Methadone. I know it is a bitch to quit and until I heard of Ibogaine I had pretty much resolved myself to being on Methadone Maintenance forever.
I indeed plan to start putting back some $$ and to start decreasing my Methadone dose in preparation for my Ibogaine treatment. It may take me a year but it has taken me 27 years(20 years old when started narcotics) to get where I am today!
Thanks so much to everyone who replies to my posts. I GREATLY appreciate it!
Peace, Callie

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Buprenorphine and Iboga and Yage
Date: October 6, 2003 at 4:14:52 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 10/6/03 6:59:54 PM, bcalabrese@yahoo.com writes:

A
single dose of ibogaine deposits nor-ibogaine in fat
and brain cells to the tune of 100 and 30 times blood
concentrations

Brett,

Can I have your source for this information.  Glick believes that ibogaine is
deposited in fat and as it is released is metabolized into noribogaine.  My
perception is no one has recorded ibogaine post 30 days ibogaine
administration.  However, as my memory is not to be counted on I would look forward to your
citations on the noribogaine.

Thanks

Howard

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] aliens?
Date: October 6, 2003 at 4:00:46 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Callie,

“> (it was made by the aliens specifically
to save mankind).

Brett, you aren’t serious with this statement are
you?!!!

What I mean is ibogaine seems like it was specifically
engineered to do exactly what it does (on the one
hand), seems as futuristic a medication as anything
from Star Trek and on the other hand (see 3 hands,
must be aliens) iboga is as magic as anything from
Harry Potter. It is also considered a highly spiritual
event by many of those who have eaten it and is the
basis for at least 2 religions, millions of people
have taken Iboga (crack the skull, see the “other
side”…) – it the Bwiti biblical “tree of life”.
Ibogaine does what is and has been considered
medically impossible by many which is one reason it
isn’t taken seriously – IMPOSSIBLE!!!! they think. A
typical sickly junkie treated with ibogaine looks in a
couple weeks like they have just returned from
vacation on some Island in the Carib… Or from a
spiritual retreat with lots of meditation… (sorry,
not likely to happen so fast for a methadone addict, a
bit longer/harder). Just “dosing” is NOT the same as
treatment, putting it all together is treatment (and
maybe 1-several ibo sessions), the “magic” then
happens. I have seen people chase ibogaine to get
fixed, get there (not listening to a word of “advice”
and not once, not twice but thrice screw it up. Follow
protocol, set and setting, do the work, get a life,
yadda yadda yadda and the “magic” will happen, it just
will – NO DOUBT (except for the 1-off chance you are
immune to ibo). Just “doseing” and expecting ibogaine
to fix you while you don’t give a shit other than
“yeah, OK I will stop”, you are going to be sent away
(IMO) empty handed. Even then I have seen ibo “work”,
if the person makes the choice and yes, ibogaine can
help make that choice easier – but it has to be in
there or it isn’t going to happen – IMVHO of course.

FYI, when I was smoking (cigarettes). I took a ibo
booster dose (no thoughts of quitting, deliberately),
1 week later I tossed the cigs with no doubt my
smoking days were over forever. Iboga will also do
that with active addicts. It is NOT UNCOMMON for
someone to use after iboga and NOT go “off to the
races”. There is also no other treatment that does
that from what I have seen, almost any time someone
starts using again, that is more often than not what
they do. Ibo changes all the rules, changes what is
possible given the experience mankind has with other
substances.

So however ibogaine got here, it is awfully suspicious
to me of all it can do and so amazingly well.

Brett

— CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
(it was made by the aliens specifically
to save mankind).

Brett, you aren’t serious with this statement are
you?!!!
Callie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping – with improved product search
http://shopping.yahoo.com

From: “Soren Lovfelt” <isl46726@image.dk>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Buprenorphine and Iboga and Yage
Date: October 6, 2003 at 3:58:33 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

It seems that Ibo and DMT and DMT analogues have something in common.
DMT is a very exciting substance IMO.One of my friends from Cali,stopped from day to day from a medium Hydrocodone habbit after a especial hard trip on 5 Meo DMT.
The funny thing is,that he KNEW he wouldn´t get sick,and he was right!!When he came down he had not the slightest WD!
He said,”it scared the addiction out of me”!
Borroughs knew these things many years ago.

Gonzo~  ;o)

Slvfelt
isl46726@image.dk

—– Original Message —–
From: “Brett Calabrese” <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 8:58 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Buprenorphine and Iboga and Yage

| Jocy,
|
| Howard replied in part.
|
| Buprenorphine is used for LOWER dose addiction
| treatment, generally 30mg of methadone or less. It is
| a opiate agonist/antagonist – it WILL cause (throw
| someone into) withdrawal if they are on too high a
| dose of opiates. At lower doses it substitutes one
| drug (opiate) for another and once the addiction is
| transitioned to “boop”, it has minimal withdrawal in
| and of itself – of course if you were abusing the
| stuff it would likely be worse. It will NOT end
| cravings after treatment as ibogaine does, only while
| you are on it.
|
| Ibogaine, for ANY drug addiction I am aware of (so
| far) will make someone UN-ADDICTED, interrupt the
| physical AND often much of the psychological
| addiction. There is no other substance on earth known
| that has the same effects unless (maybe) it is derived
| from ibogaine or is ibo-like, nor-ibogaine is an
| example, the primary metabolite from ibogaine. A
| single dose of ibogaine deposits nor-ibogaine in fat
| and brain cells to the tune of 100 and 30 times blood
| concentrations (it was made by the aliens specifically
| to save mankind). After an ibogaine treatment,
| nor-ibogaine stays in your system, how long no-one
| knows it stays in so long they cannot measure it –
| months. IMO, it stays in much longer than that, it is
| a feelable substance inside the body, like being on an
| SSRI but nicer and no nasty negative sexual side
| effects, only GOOD ONES! (ibo is a true aphrodisiac).
|
| Yage (very short version) is a mixture of an MAOI
| containing plant or and a DMT containing plant – there
| are many variations. It will NOT detox anyone from
| anything, it will NOT end cravings, it WILL (can) help
| your head and is the only substance known to actually
| increase 5HT receptors (serotonin) in the brain – this
| is a good thing. Lacking Would it “help” sure,
| anything good will “help” though an MAOI while
| addicted to methadone (off hand) I don’t know if it is
| safe. It absolutely is NOT safe for
| coke/speed/alcohol/SSRI addictions (mixing in an
| MAOI), or chocolate for that matter.
|
| There have been several posts on the subject, my only
| personal experience is with ibogaine.
|
| Brett
|
|
| — jocy <jr@israven.com> wrote:
| >  Hi group, I asked few days ago abot the diferences
| > and similarities about
| > treating with ibogaine and ayauaska or yage, for
| > opioid addict , i didn´t
| > got any answer and i wold like to know a lot more
| > about this matter, if
| > someone cant tell me or send me some information
| > please
| > Regards
| > Jocy
| >
| > ——-Mensaje original——-
| >
| > De: ibogaine@mindvox.com
| > Fecha: Viernes, 03 de Octubre de 2003 07:20:16 p.
| > A: ibogaine@mindvox.com
| > Asunto: Re: [ibogaine] Buprenorphine and Iboga and
| > Yage
| >
| > In a message dated 10/3/03 9:50:11 PM,
| > deartheo@ziplip.com writes:
| >
| > >I know we were discussing (not enough in my
| > opinion) how iboga compairs
| > >with yage in treating addiciton. Has anyone heard
| > of anyone useing
| > buprenorphine
| > >prior to or after iboga treatment. I know next to
| > nothing about
| > buprenorphine
| > >so if it is a shitty treatment sorry for bringing
| > it up, i’m learning as
| > >i go : )
| >
| > Buprenorphine is a narcotic having both agonist an
| > antagonist actions. It
| > can precipitate withdrawal in an opioid dependent
| > patient. There is a lot of
| >
| > information on buprenorphine on the web but, my
| > guess is no one has used
| > ibogaine to treat buprenorphine dependence. Or
| > followed ibogaine therapy
| > with
| > buprenorphine. Your question is a very interesting
| > one.
| >
| > Howard
| >
| > .
|
|
| __________________________________
| Do you Yahoo!?
| The New Yahoo! Shopping – with improved product search
| http://shopping.yahoo.com
|
|
|

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] aliens?
Date: October 6, 2003 at 3:07:56 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

(it was made by the aliens specifically
to save mankind).

Brett, you aren’t serious with this statement are you?!!!
Callie

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Buprenorphine and Iboga and Yage
Date: October 6, 2003 at 3:06:47 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jocy,

Howard replied in part.

Buprenorphine is used for LOWER dose addiction
treatment, generally 30mg of methadone or less. It is
a opiate agonist/antagonist – it WILL cause (throw
someone into) withdrawal if they are on too high a
dose of opiates. At lower doses it substitutes one
drug (opiate) for another and once the addiction is
transitioned to “boop”, it has minimal withdrawal in
and of itself – of course if you were abusing the
stuff it would likely be worse. It will NOT end
cravings after treatment as ibogaine does, only while
you are on it.

Ibogaine, for ANY drug addiction I am aware of (so
far) will make someone UN-ADDICTED, interrupt the
physical AND often much of the psychological
addiction. There is no other substance on earth known
that has the same effects unless (maybe) it is derived
from ibogaine or is ibo-like, nor-ibogaine is an
example, the primary metabolite from ibogaine. A
single dose of ibogaine deposits nor-ibogaine in fat
and brain cells to the tune of 100 and 30 times blood
concentrations (it was made by the aliens specifically
to save mankind). After an ibogaine treatment,
nor-ibogaine stays in your system, how long no-one
knows it stays in so long they cannot measure it –
months. IMO, it stays in much longer than that, it is
a feelable substance inside the body, like being on an
SSRI but nicer and no nasty negative sexual side
effects, only GOOD ONES! (ibo is a true aphrodisiac).

Yage (very short version) is a mixture of an MAOI
containing plant or and a DMT containing plant – there
are many variations. It will NOT detox anyone from
anything, it will NOT end cravings, it WILL (can) help
your head and is the only substance known to actually
increase 5HT receptors (serotonin) in the brain – this
is a good thing. Lacking Would it “help” sure,
anything good will “help” though an MAOI while
addicted to methadone (off hand) I don’t know if it is
safe. It absolutely is NOT safe for
coke/speed/alcohol/SSRI addictions (mixing in an
MAOI), or chocolate for that matter.

There have been several posts on the subject, my only
personal experience is with ibogaine.

Brett

— jocy <jr@israven.com> wrote:
Hi group, I asked few days ago abot the diferences
and similarities about
treating with ibogaine and ayauaska or yage, for
opioid addict , i didnīt
got any answer and i wold like to know a lot more
about this matter, if
someone cant tell me or send me some information
please
Regards
Jocy

——-Mensaje original——-

De: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Fecha: Viernes, 03 de Octubre de 2003 07:20:16 p.
A: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Asunto: Re: [ibogaine] Buprenorphine and Iboga and
Yage

In a message dated 10/3/03 9:50:11 PM,
deartheo@ziplip.com writes:

I know we were discussing (not enough in my
opinion) how iboga compairs
with yage in treating addiciton. Has anyone heard
of anyone useing
buprenorphine
prior to or after iboga treatment. I know next to
nothing about
buprenorphine
so if it is a shitty treatment sorry for bringing
it up, i’m learning as
i go : )

Buprenorphine is a narcotic having both agonist an
antagonist actions. It
can precipitate withdrawal in an opioid dependent
patient. There is a lot of

information on buprenorphine on the web but, my
guess is no one has used
ibogaine to treat buprenorphine dependence. Or
followed ibogaine therapy
with
buprenorphine. Your question is a very interesting
one.

Howard

.

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping – with improved product search
http://shopping.yahoo.com

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Buprenorphine and Iboga and Yage
Date: October 6, 2003 at 2:58:34 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jocy,

Howard replied in part.

Buprenorphine is used for LOWER dose addiction
treatment, generally 30mg of methadone or less. It is
a opiate agonist/antagonist – it WILL cause (throw
someone into) withdrawal if they are on too high a
dose of opiates. At lower doses it substitutes one
drug (opiate) for another and once the addiction is
transitioned to “boop”, it has minimal withdrawal in
and of itself – of course if you were abusing the
stuff it would likely be worse. It will NOT end
cravings after treatment as ibogaine does, only while
you are on it.

Ibogaine, for ANY drug addiction I am aware of (so
far) will make someone UN-ADDICTED, interrupt the
physical AND often much of the psychological
addiction. There is no other substance on earth known
that has the same effects unless (maybe) it is derived
from ibogaine or is ibo-like, nor-ibogaine is an
example, the primary metabolite from ibogaine. A
single dose of ibogaine deposits nor-ibogaine in fat
and brain cells to the tune of 100 and 30 times blood
concentrations (it was made by the aliens specifically
to save mankind). After an ibogaine treatment,
nor-ibogaine stays in your system, how long no-one
knows it stays in so long they cannot measure it –
months. IMO, it stays in much longer than that, it is
a feelable substance inside the body, like being on an
SSRI but nicer and no nasty negative sexual side
effects, only GOOD ONES! (ibo is a true aphrodisiac).

Yage (very short version) is a mixture of an MAOI
containing plant or and a DMT containing plant – there
are many variations. It will NOT detox anyone from
anything, it will NOT end cravings, it WILL (can) help
your head and is the only substance known to actually
increase 5HT receptors (serotonin) in the brain – this
is a good thing. Lacking Would it “help” sure,
anything good will “help” though an MAOI while
addicted to methadone (off hand) I don’t know if it is
safe. It absolutely is NOT safe for
coke/speed/alcohol/SSRI addictions (mixing in an
MAOI), or chocolate for that matter.

There have been several posts on the subject, my only
personal experience is with ibogaine.

Brett

— jocy <jr@israven.com> wrote:
Hi group, I asked few days ago abot the diferences
and similarities about
treating with ibogaine and ayauaska or yage, for
opioid addict , i didnīt
got any answer and i wold like to know a lot more
about this matter, if
someone cant tell me or send me some information
please
Regards
Jocy

——-Mensaje original——-

De: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Fecha: Viernes, 03 de Octubre de 2003 07:20:16 p.
A: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Asunto: Re: [ibogaine] Buprenorphine and Iboga and
Yage

In a message dated 10/3/03 9:50:11 PM,
deartheo@ziplip.com writes:

I know we were discussing (not enough in my
opinion) how iboga compairs
with yage in treating addiciton. Has anyone heard
of anyone useing
buprenorphine
prior to or after iboga treatment. I know next to
nothing about
buprenorphine
so if it is a shitty treatment sorry for bringing
it up, i’m learning as
i go : )

Buprenorphine is a narcotic having both agonist an
antagonist actions. It
can precipitate withdrawal in an opioid dependent
patient. There is a lot of

information on buprenorphine on the web but, my
guess is no one has used
ibogaine to treat buprenorphine dependence. Or
followed ibogaine therapy
with
buprenorphine. Your question is a very interesting
one.

Howard

.

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping – with improved product search
http://shopping.yahoo.com

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Pub LTE on iboga
Date: October 6, 2003 at 2:50:51 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks Brett for your feedback! Really thanks, I appreciate it!
I have a pretty good idea of what will be required for me to live a ‘clean’ existence.
One good thing going for me is that my boys are grown, one married, one in college, so if I need to relocate to stay clean I can.
I really wish I had a good support system. you all are great, don’t get me wrong but a roomie or friend in same city would be nice.
BUT, right now I have to prepare myself for this journey. I am not physically or emotionally ready to ‘jump’ into a different lifestyle. Just to have decided to do this in the future gives me much hope!
Callie

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] reply to Pub on Iboga
Date: October 6, 2003 at 2:40:20 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

No, you are not spouting off! I have no one to communicate with about decreasing my dose except my methadone counselor who has never got a buzz in her life much less kicked dope! lol! The other folks at the clinic are only interested in talking about ways to get more methadone or how they are going to pay for their next week of treatment. I am just sick and tired of the clinic but I am very fearful of detoxing and leaving the clinic too. My life has been so ‘normal’ since I have gotten on Methadone. I know it is a bitch to quit and until I heard of Ibogaine I had pretty much resolved myself to being on Methadone Maintenance forever.
I indeed plan to start putting back some $$ and to start decreasing my Methadone dose in preparation for my Ibogaine treatment. It may take me a year but it has taken me 27 years(20 years old when started narcotics) to get where I am today!
Thanks so much to everyone who replies to my posts. I GREATLY appreciate it!
Peace, Callie

From: David Carrau’s Girl <bleed_pretty_girl@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] ibogaine
Date: October 6, 2003 at 2:20:22 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

How much is it?

Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping – with improved product search

From: “Allison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: A Rant from Brain Ailment Not a Moral Lapse
Date: October 5, 2003 at 8:36:40 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I guess you can get addicted to all sorts.  You mentioned junk food and cigarettes etc.  I found when I finally got off morphine etc.  and then methadone, which was the hardest by sure.  (Those last mls of methadone nearly wrecked me,   far more than any other withdrawal from the real drugs rather than the cheap crap methadone patients get fed on)  I know it does its job and makes you feel better but it is oh so insinuating.  Think thats the word I wanted.   Anyways, what I wanted to ask is if anyone else here has been addicted to exercising or sport.  I used to swim and then did aerobics and gym etc.  and had such a guilt complex if I missed a session or quit early for some reason.
Does that mean my brain is obsessive or something or as Marc reckoned looking for something missing or a body chemistry that exists.
PS  Callie.   Was it you that said you didn’t smoke weed or dope when your children were around??
There was all that discussion about the 5yr old making a bong at school.  Perhaps if she really understood what she was doing she would not have taken that info to school.  Most children I know of who are brought up with weed grow up with an understanding of what it is just as they are educated about cigarettes and alcohol.  Guess it depends on how the parent goes about it just like anything else children learn as they grow.  They all have to make choices as they get older and I think the most important thing is to provide as much correct information as you can to make those decisions.  Allison
——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Saturday, 4 October 2003 5:18:25 a.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: A Rant from Brain Ailment Not a Moral Lapse

If I may add 2 cents (to me/for me) and sort of an
update on a previously treated drug addict with
ibogaine (numerous times) and current use of narcotic
pain meds (for pain silly).

Clean is more of a state of mind. I am on prescription
narcotics (oxycontin) and consider myself quite
“clean”. There are some side effects I choose to place
little attention to – like a slight (very slight) pull
or urge at times, it sometimes effects my mood when I
get “low” or a slight desire for a cigarette that
annoys me a bit (I quit 15 months ago). They are just
side effects from having receptors tickled by the
narcotics, no more, no less. It is not “me” like the
drugs became when I was using. I can if I so choose
stop (on a dime) without the slightest craving – FYI,
I did couple months ago (no ibo or anything, kind of a
sick control-issue kind of thing – now spit, look
tough… ain’t nothing, kind of thing). What a change
to be told by the doctor TO take drugs and NOT to stop
the narcotics – which I would just spontainously do.
My biggest problem stopping (meds). stopping is no big
deal, starting is a horror (to me), I have to ramp up
over weeks cause it feels so uncomfortable. This is a
side effect from the ibogaine treatment, this NEVER
use to happen to me – it use to be YUM, DRUGS, GOOD,
MORE…

The past 3 weeks or so have been pretty bad (pain),
normally I am on 40mg (10mg 4X) plus perc breakthrough
(5mg oxy) and was getting into the reserves and a
hairs breath from stopping (it was losing its
effectiveness) a sure-fire way to increase the
effectiveness of pain meds, stop them. Then the pain
eased up (it is weather pattern related and other
things were involved) and like always I just find my
level. So for the past 2 days I have had the sweats,
goose-bumps, weakness… and not a craving in site –
slight “rebound” pain discomfort but nothing really.

Point; when the drug is in control of my spirit I am
not “clean”. “clean” also comes in levels and is
relative. I walk into an AA meeting and they consider
themselves “clean”, meanwhile 80% of them are addicted
to cigarettes, coffee with sugar, garbage food, bad
health habits, they are addicted to meetings often
enough with “FEAR” if they don’t attend (use???) – and
if I pay close attention and listen to them I can be
JUST LIKE THEM (they know better, I am deceiving
myself…). Somehow “just one drink away” seems a
little close to the edge for me – if I am really
“clean” (and sober) what is there to be so worried
about? I get images of the movie/TV scene where the
bad guys grab the RECOVERING good guy alcoholic, pour
alcohol down his throat and he is off, out of
control… Whatever it is, there is nothing in me to
“trigger” that any more, it is all gone and has been
replaced by a force of will I never had. There is no
substance that can be put in my body that will cause
me to go “off to the races”, ain’t gonna happen, ever.
I was in a 1/2 way house with guys that were not
using, but were hardly “clean”, 1 guy had 6 years of
white nuckles… He couldn’t/didn’t “use” but that was
it. A drug addict minus drugs is a sad site to behold,
I offered to drive them to pick-up, just so I could
watch them get off, get sick, be miserable…

There are those who I meet, on methadone for many
years, living their lives without the use of other
addicting drugs (if to you GRASS is, then add it to
YOUR list), no addict behavior/active friends…. For
the most part except for the physical addiction, they
are in my mind, relatively clean – being basically
over the drug addiction and left with a rather nasty
methadone physical addiction.

(“Clean is;” LOL) I sometimes forget to take meds and
throw myself into withdrawal, it is the strangest
thing to do for someone who was once deep in addiction
and currently physically habituated to a narcotic.
That’s clean and let me tell you, what a difference,
what a pleasure to be like this and not like THAT…
like waking up and being re-wired. The one side effect
I don’t like (from ibo) is I find any “feeling” I may
get from meds (none now) is uncomfortable, I dislike
it (99% and the 1% that does, we don’t talk to any
longer…).

Getting myself out of being IN RECOVERY, looked at as
a RECOVERING ADDICT – to be “careful” with certain
things around, that is “clean”.

Med time, speaking of. Done. My hands were getting
sticky on the keyboard. By tomorrow/day after any side
effect (minor withdrawal symptoms) will be gone.

My WORST problems with drugs today are with doctors
trying to help me and people in recovery trying to get
me to join their non-religion, to be saved, and of
course ridiculed and looked down upon (he is “out
there”… poor soul). I did try meetings when I first
went on heavy pain meds, I got both good and bad, more
bad I think. No-one should have to go to a 12 step
meeting and feel like the visiting nigger. Some showed
me respect, others “said” things either directly to me
or to other people, sometimes they were VERY insistant
on impressing their opinion on me and everyone around
me. Sometimes they learned, saw me and understood. SO
(I am happily deep in relapse, denial, rationalizing
and all that other recovery crap… I don’t smoke,
don’t drink (alcohol), am not a habitual anything
(coffee, sugar, sex…), don’t do any drugs except
when they will help. “Help” works both ways and means
DO take something when it will “HELP” and DON’T when
it won’t “HELP”. That I have to remind myself of or I
will just stop or when the paing gets bad,
over-medicate (oxy in particular is useless after a
certain point, I do NOT chase pain with meds… bad
idea).

Brett

— CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
> Sara, I, like you, am not satisfied with the word
> ‘clean’ for my present
> status. But, my life is manageable now. Methadone is
> the only drug I use now so
> until I find a better word I use ‘clean.’ Also, I
> was an opiate garbage can
> before…..pills, by mouth and IV, syrups, for
> cough, pain, diarrhea……a real
> mess!!! Plus the benzodiazepines and weed……
> Yep, I am pretty clean now! hahaha!!!
> Peace to all, Callie
>

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping – with improved product search
http://shopping.yahoo.com

.

____________________________________________________
IncrediMail – Email has finally evolved – Click Here

From: “jocy” <jr@israven.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Buprenorphine and Iboga and Yage
Date: October 6, 2003 at 1:14:20 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi group, I asked few days ago abot the diferences and similarities about treating with ibogaine and ayauaska or yage, for opioid addict , i didn´t got any answer and i wold like to know a lot more about this matter, if someone cant tell me or send me some information please
Regards
Jocy

——-Mensaje original——-

De: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Fecha: Viernes, 03 de Octubre de 2003 07:20:16 p.
A: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Asunto: Re: [ibogaine] Buprenorphine and Iboga and Yage

In a message dated 10/3/03 9:50:11 PM, deartheo@ziplip.com writes:

>I know we were discussing (not enough in my opinion) how iboga compairs
>with yage in treating addiciton. Has anyone heard of anyone useing
buprenorphine
>prior to or after iboga treatment. I know next to nothing about
buprenorphine
>so if it is a shitty treatment sorry for bringing it up, i’m learning as
>i go : )

Buprenorphine is a narcotic having both agonist an antagonist actions. It
can precipitate withdrawal in an opioid dependent patient. There is a lot of
information on buprenorphine on the web but, my guess is no one has used
ibogaine to treat buprenorphine dependence. Or followed ibogaine therapy with
buprenorphine. Your question is a very interesting one.

Howard

.

_________________________________________________________________
IncrediMail – El E-mail ha evolucionado finalmente – Haga clic aquí

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Pub LTE on iboga
Date: October 6, 2003 at 1:14:01 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Callie,

Under no conditions is a full blown ibogaine tx/trip
or recovery a piece of cake. Even the little baby
addiction I have (currently) for pain meds isn’t a
piece of cake and I have no cravings if I stop, just
discomfort and irritablity. Everyone is different when
it comes to ibogaine, one person is fine with 1
treatment, someone else may need several. It is not a
failure on your part to need more, it is letting
yourself down if you want the ibogaine to do all the
work – typically it will not and then eventually a lot
of it fades. So you can even feel GREAT just after and
then 6 months down the road, it is “where did it go?”
-that was my first reaction. Not all of it (left), but
a lot of it faded – went from cloud 9/understanding
all to life got tough again…  This is a big reason
you need to work on yourself, no matter how good you
may feel after tx that passes in time and reality sets
in – the healing/growth you do/did does NOT leave you.
The good part is methadone addicts who are not using
(for real) have an easier time of it (in this
respect), they typically do not want to “use”.

Yes, start bringing your dose down – don’t kill
yourself over it, but put on pressure/effort. No
matter what, you still have to get from here to there.
Even if you just drop a little and the effort counts
for more than the mg’s, it still counts.

Also, I strongly suggest the double treatment (if Marc
suggests same – if that is who is doing the treating).
Ibogaine is one of the more disgusting substances
particularly to an active addict. People tend to
refuse additional ibogaine right after (or during)…
It also may get a little harder a couple weeks after
the ibo than right after (maybe as some nor-ibo slips
out of you), it even did the same thing with me on
smoking – at first it was easier, got a little harder
as I “felt” the high levels of nor-ibo settle down and
then got easier again as the nicotine addiction went
mostly away. Now unfortunately I have a little
nicotine urges due to being on oxycontin, not that it
will ever get me to pick one up. And that is the
beauty of ibogaine, I know for a fact that unless I
want to and do, there is nothing going to make me. I
don’t know if it is the ibogaine now or just the ME
that is left, I don’t have it in me, there is no
“need” or wanting, nothing missing that needs to be
filled…

It is a good idea to have some kind of plan. Some kind
of recovery/discover yourself stuff, get a life
stuff/have a life/get out do healthy stuff… exercise
(gym, Yoga, Tai Chi, running, swimming) and add in
something spiritual or whatever/wherever you find
meaning in life, understanding, peace, a connection of
yourself to outside yourself from inside yourself, or
something like that. This is applies more to active
addicts than to methadone patients who have more of a
life (unless you don’t…).

This isn’t easy, STUFF comes up. Depending on how much
STUFF the ibogaine jars lose/how much you have… is
how difficult it tends to be. A lot may go during the
session, a lot may bubble up after, it took me several
sessions, time, desire, effort… to exercise the
demons. The treatment is NOT just during the ibogaine
session (dose/trip), it (healing) tends to go on for
months and months after – it is NOT all comfortable.

Brett

— CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
I have got to try Ibogaine!! This is like a dream
come true!! No withdrawl
after being on 236mg of Methadone?! It should be a
piece of cake for me as I am
only on 100mg! I have started an ‘Ibogaine savings’
so I can try this without
wrecking my budget.
Peace, Callie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping – with improved product search
http://shopping.yahoo.com

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Pub on iboga
Date: October 6, 2003 at 10:40:41 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

deartheo wrote >i wouldn’t go down more then once a month to give your
natural endorphines time to build back up and keep your discomfort doable .
<

Hey Callie,
Speaking from my own personal experiences- Going from 90 to 50 I dropped
10 milligrams every month, then stayed at 40 for a couple of years. When I
decided to end my association with methadone, I dropped 10 milligrams to 30,
waited 2 weeks, then every other week dropped 5 millgrams (the smallest my
clinic at that time would drop) until the final week of pick ups, which sat
in my refridgerator for a couple of years undrunk due to my realization that
the 5 milligrams I’d been taking the preceding week weren’t apparently doing
anything to keep me from getting ill, so I simply stopped altogether. Dana
urged me to not give in to the opium gods, the ones he felt I was giving in
to by my insisting that I would deal with the withdrawals in other ways, and
take ibogaine but didn’t have any to hand me apparently. Which was a little
frustrating to me at the time.
When I asked at the clinic window about whether back pain was normal for
meth withdrawals, the nurse behind the window got sorta excited and told me,
“hey, you shouldn’t be dropping so fast, wait a few months between drops,
you’re setting yourself up for a fall,” but I kinda figured it as a typical
meth provider tactic to keep a paying customer around just a wee bit longer.
That said, he coulda been sincerely concerned as well, as he seemed like
a fairly nice guy.
Turned out that the methadone was masking severe pain in my back and
body that really, really became noticable as I dropped in dose amount. I
think the withdrawals probably contributed at the time to the pain, as the
pain decreased a wee bit for a wee while, but nowadays, with the pain in my
back and legs ever so much worse than even at the most painful during the
extremely uncomfortable kicking time, I’m not sure how much of that pain was
due to simple withdrawals.
Anyway, I only pipe up to let you know that even in this case everyone
is different, and to urge you to use your own judgement when getting off the
methadone. Take a lot of warm baths, smoke pot, and do things to distract
you, as well as eat healthily. (I may be simply spouting for no reason here
as I’m not sure you’re actually talking about getting off now, or talking
about finding some ibogaine at some time when you do feel like getting off
the stuff- which only you know is a good idea or not, or even ever necessary
for you. In other words, my own humble advise would be to never let others’
predjudices influence your decision to be on methadone or not. For some
people, while we hurdle along in our current prohibitionistic state of
affairs, methadone is a good idea to be on. It can help some have a chance
to live a life much different and much less painful and complicated than the
one lived while trying to chase heroin around, or even that lived while
trying to stay completely “clean”.)
I also dream about trying ibogaine someday, but at least one person who
I think knows sorta what he’s talking about told me a while back that I’m
too skinny (which, although someone else who I think knows what he’s talking
about told me that I definitely shouldn’t listen to that advice about my
weight and I’ve gained 10 pounds or more since then, still leaves me
thinking discouraged thoughts as I won’t ever be getting much bigger due to
missing major portions of my inners) and I don’t have the money (nor
passport) to go overseas to try it at this time, so I’ve no idea when I’ll
get the chance to do so. I wouldn’t be doing it specificallly to “kick” any
habits or addictions I may or may not live with now, but am very interested
in where it may take me when I do eventually find myself in the situation
whereby I can and do have the opportunity to ingest ibogane. (I like the
idea of going to visit Sara too and hope to actually someday.)
So anyway, have a nice day everyone.
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: deartheo@ziplip.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 9:44 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] Pub on iboga

Callie,
I’m sure you already know this but it would really be a good idea to start
woking down your dose level a bit prior to iboga treatment.  Like i said in
a recent e-mail, i wouldn’t go down more then once a month to give your
natural endorphines time to build back up and keep your discomfort doable .
Methadone and Orlaam are time released both in taking away the sickness in
the short term (24 hours of not being sick for methadone, 48 hours for
orlaam as oppossed to heroin’s 4-6 hours of no sickness)…for a price, a
very heavy price..    I still felt a little withdrawl (maybe 5% of the
unimaginable monster that would have been there without the iboga) but
NOTHING compaired to when i attemped to kick Orlaam cold tuckey without
iboga (and that was not a very high dose and the sickness lasted 2 months,
during which i only slept 4 hours; a heroin junkie will ususally only go
through 7-10 days of sickness, 2 weeks in extreem cases).
I just want to make sure you know that some journeys worth taking have to be
earned during the iboga dose.   It is not a party drug and it deserves more
respect then any other thing if done.  It is a bit taxing and it does take a
person willing to go through whatever needs to be for the journey.  I think
beyond a doubt the iboga definatley helps keep me in a grounded spiritually
‘non-hopless’ way of percieving things and events and also the chaos  isn’t
as jumbled together as it was pre-iboga.  Post iboga i realized how much
bigger the chaos is (it was just as big prior to iboga, it’s just my eyes
weren’t opened to the reality of the situation pre-iboga).  Also it has
helped me organize and priorities the chaos =
my past requires ACTION, iboga cannot do this action for you.
Their are other more knowledgable folk on this list.  In my opinion, it
appears that for some people it is a “magic bullet’, waking up without any
withdrawls at all,  others see a significant  reduction in their withdrawls.
Basically, iboga is not methadone with hallucinations.  I do believe that
the huge amount  iboga/ine taught me was far better then years of therapy.
Iboga/ine will make it clear what needs to be done, and it is up to you to
take action on it.
Do plenty of reading on it if you are serious about doing it, I started to
get a feel for what it was like when I read different iboga/ine experiences
posted on-line.
Here are some (but not all) of iboga/ine providers:
A peyote mother shaman woman named Sara from the neitherlands is the way i
would
go if you have the money.  She is a very good person.  Visit her site at
http://www.iboga.tk/

Iboga therapy house in Vancouver BCanada has Marc
(marc@ibogatherapyhouse.org)
as director and funder and Sandra (sandra@ibogatherapyhouse.org) who is his
assistant with ITH, if you apply or e-mail, i would do it to both.  They are
filling up already for Jan & Feb of 2004.  I began trying to go in Feb2003
and
finally made it up July 2003 so that gives you an idea of how long it takes.

the following text is at http://www.ibogaine.co.uk/options.htm

– Treatment with ibogaine the Healing Visions clinic in St Kitts, West
Indies.
Cost – UK?1,900-7,500, (US$3k-12k).Visit www.healingvisions.com for further
details. GOVERNMENT LICENSED
(this is Debra Mash’s, the cost only covers one does; if you decide to do
it,
assume you will need more then one dose)
– IBOGA THERAPY HOUSE, Vancouver, B.C., Canada – This west coast iboga
therapy
house offers treatment to highly motivated individuals who wish to work hard
towards ending their repetitive self-destructive behaviours. Open year
round,
contact marc@cannabisculture.com if you have a blood test completed, an EKG
(heart exam), and have a after-care program in place, then we can discuss
your
treatment at the Iboga Therapy House. NOT GOVERNMENT LICENSED

– Medically supervised ibogaine treatment near San Diego in Rosarito,
Mexico.
Licensed facility. Cost US$2800 Visit www.ibogaine-therapy.net for further
details IBOGAINE’S LEGAL STATUS IN MEXICO IS “UNLICENSED EXPERIMENTAL
MEDICATION”

-For information about ibogaine treatment in the UK please call Hattie on
07949
262 949 email: epoptica@freeuk.com Or Edward on 0207 833 3327. NOT
GOVERNMENT
LICENSED

– Ibogaine treatment in Mexico or Europe. Cost approx. US$1800. Visit
www.ibogainetreatment.net for further details LICENSING STATUS UNKNOWN

– Ibogaine treatment in a Panamanian hospital. Cost – approx UK?9,000,
(US$15,000). GOVERNMENT LICENSED Contact:
Dr. Edgardo Della Sera
Panama Ibogaine Project
Clinica del Nino
Apdo 447
David, Chiriqui
Republic of Panama
e-mail ibogaine@chiriqui.com
fax: +507 777 3579

– Medically supervised ibogaine treatment at a hospital in Lahore, Pakistan
with
Dr Kalbe Abbas for around ?1,000, (US$1500).
Dr. Kalbe Abbas MBBS,
5-F Waris Road,
Lahore, Pakistan
Tel: +92-042-7586712
Fax c/o Asif Zaidi: +92-042-6372700
Fax c/o Dr. Fayyaz: +92-042-6373228
E-mail: kabbas@brain.net.pk GOVERNMENT LICENSING UNNECESSARY IN PAKISTAN

– Ibogaine treatment via Eric Taub’s “I begin again” organisation. Based in
Florida, but operating outside of the US. Cost – UK?600-1,500,
(US$900-2,500).
Visit www.ibeginagain.org for further details. NOT GOVERNMENT LICENSED

– Medically supervised ibogaine treatment in Northern Italy with Karl Naeher
for
around ?1,000, (US$1500). Visit www.ibogainetreatment.com for further
details.
NOT GOVERNMENT LICENSED.

– Treatment with Tabernanthe iboga in either the Cameroun or France. Cost
approx
UK?800, (~US$1,300). Visit http://www.iboga.org for further information. NOT
GOVERNMENT LICENSED

Options for supply (they will not ship to the US, but if you know someone in
another country that will receive it and ship it to you then they will
gladly
ship to them if outside the US.  “Ibogaine has been made illegal in the
United
States and Belgium, Switzerland and Sweden, therefore we will not export it
to
these countries.”

Possession of ibogaine is a criminal offence in the USA, Belgium, Sweden and
Switzerland, and may be so in other countries.

– 98% pure Ibogaine hydrochloride. Cost: for 1-9g – EUR 256 per gram,
(~UK?170/g, US$300/g); for 10+ grams – EUR 128 per gram, (~ UK?80/g,
US$120/g).
E-mail sacrament@sacrament.kibla.si for details. NOT GOVERNMENT LICENSED

– Tabernanthe iboga root and rootbark . Root US$50 for 50g. Rootbark US$55
for
5g. Currently available from a Dutch-based site,
www.maya-ethnobotanicals.com/
NOT GOVERNMENT LICENSED

– Tabernanthe iboga whole plant, extract, and ibogaine HCl all available
from
this Canada based outlet. http://ethnogarden.yage.net/ibogabark.htm NOT
GOVERNMENT LICENSED

– Tabernanthe iboga powdered root capsules. Developed as a low-dose daily
regime
in Holland and Gabon, these pre-packed capsules come as a complete course.
Cost
approx. US$20 per 60. Visit www.iboga.nl for details. NOT GOVERNMENT
LICENSED

– Tabernanthe iboga rootbark . US$44 for 5g. Danish site,
http://www.ethnoplanet.dk/prvcgi/www_ethnoplanet_com/Varer.asp?Kategori=23
NOT GOVERNMENT
LICENSED

– Indra iboga extract (extracted iboga alkaloids) from the Indra Project in
Kristiania, Denmark. Contact Indra at www.indra.dk/ for further details.
Indra
estimate this product to be approximately one quarter to one fifth the
strength
of pure ibogaine. NOT GOVERNMENT LICENSED

– The Indra extract is also available from Cosmic Shrooms of Japan. Visit
www.cmp-lab.or.jp/~toko/index.htm for details. NOT GOVERNMENT LICENSED

—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: 06 Oct 03, 4:47 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Pub LTE on iboga
I have got to try Ibogaine!! This is like a dream come true!! No withdrawl
after being on 236mg of Methadone?! It should be a piece of cake for me as I
am only on 100mg! I have started an ‘Ibogaine savings’ so I can try this
without wrecking my budget.
Peace, Callie

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] LSD made illegal today in 1966
Date: October 6, 2003 at 10:12:05 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 9:24 AM
Subject: [drugwar] LSD made illegal today in 1966

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd.shtml
LSD Made Illegal Today in 1966 (Oct. 6, 2003)
In one of the more idiotic moves by prohibitionists, LSD was
criminalized
today in 1966, so in light of this, we link to a story of what happened to
one man (http://www.grayarea.com/lsd-bust.html) when set up by an
undercover
prohibitionist enforcer in an LSD-buying sting operation, and history of
the
drug itself (http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Oracle/9487/heinylsd.htm), in
addition to the above link to Erowid’s LSD page containing pictures,
stories
and more facts about the incredible and much maligned drug LSD.

<]=———————————————————————–=[

[           Moderated by: Preston Peet |
.drugwar.com           ]
|          -=/[ To Subscribe: drugwar-subscribe@mindvox.com ]/=-
|
|             To Unsubscribe: drugwar-unsubscribe@mindvox.com
|
[   DrugWar List in Digest Format:
ugwar-digest-subscribe@mindvox.com   ]

<]=———————————————————————–=[

From: deartheo@ziplip.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Pub on iboga
Date: October 6, 2003 at 9:44:24 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Callie,
I’m sure you already know this but it would really be a good idea to start woking down your dose level a bit prior to iboga treatment.  Like i said in a recent e-mail, i wouldn’t go down more then once a month to give your natural endorphines time to build back up and keep your discomfort doable .  Methadone and Orlaam are time released both in taking away the sickness in the short term (24 hours of not being sick for methadone, 48 hours for orlaam as oppossed to heroin’s 4-6 hours of no sickness)…for a price, a very heavy price..    I still felt a little withdrawl (maybe 5% of the unimaginable monster that would have been there without the iboga) but NOTHING compaired to when i attemped to kick Orlaam cold tuckey without iboga (and that was not a very high dose and the sickness lasted 2 months, during which i only slept 4 hours; a heroin junkie will ususally only go through 7-10 days of sickness, 2 weeks in extreem cases).
I just want to make sure you know that some journeys worth taking have to be earned during the iboga dose.   It is not a party drug and it deserves more respect then any other thing if done.  It is a bit taxing and it does take a person willing to go through whatever needs to be for the journey.  I think beyond a doubt the iboga definatley helps keep me in a grounded spiritually ‘non-hopless’ way of percieving things and events and also the chaos  isn’t as jumbled together as it was pre-iboga.  Post iboga i realized how much bigger the chaos is (it was just as big prior to iboga, it’s just my eyes weren’t opened to the reality of the situation pre-iboga).  Also it has helped me organize and priorities the chaos =
my past requires ACTION, iboga cannot do this action for you.
Their are other more knowledgable folk on this list.  In my opinion, it appears that for some people it is a “magic bullet’, waking up without any withdrawls at all,  others see a significant  reduction in their withdrawls.  Basically, iboga is not methadone with hallucinations.  I do believe that the huge amount  iboga/ine taught me was far better then years of therapy.  Iboga/ine will make it clear what needs to be done, and it is up to you to take action on it.
Do plenty of reading on it if you are serious about doing it, I started to get a feel for what it was like when I read different iboga/ine experiences posted on-line.
Here are some (but not all) of iboga/ine providers:
A peyote mother shaman woman named Sara from the neitherlands is the way i would
go if you have the money.  She is a very good person.  Visit her site at http://www.iboga.tk/

Iboga therapy house in Vancouver BCanada has Marc (marc@ibogatherapyhouse.org)
as director and funder and Sandra (sandra@ibogatherapyhouse.org) who is his
assistant with ITH, if you apply or e-mail, i would do it to both.  They are
filling up already for Jan & Feb of 2004.  I began trying to go in Feb2003 and
finally made it up July 2003 so that gives you an idea of how long it takes.

the following text is at http://www.ibogaine.co.uk/options.htm

– Treatment with ibogaine the Healing Visions clinic in St Kitts, West Indies.
Cost – UK?1,900-7,500, (US$3k-12k).Visit www.healingvisions.com for further
details. GOVERNMENT LICENSED
(this is Debra Mash’s, the cost only covers one does; if you decide to do it,
assume you will need more then one dose)
– IBOGA THERAPY HOUSE, Vancouver, B.C., Canada – This west coast iboga therapy
house offers treatment to highly motivated individuals who wish to work hard
towards ending their repetitive self-destructive behaviours. Open year round,
contact marc@cannabisculture.com if you have a blood test completed, an EKG
(heart exam), and have a after-care program in place, then we can discuss your
treatment at the Iboga Therapy House. NOT GOVERNMENT LICENSED

– Medically supervised ibogaine treatment near San Diego in Rosarito, Mexico.
Licensed facility. Cost US$2800 Visit www.ibogaine-therapy.net for further
details IBOGAINE’S LEGAL STATUS IN MEXICO IS “UNLICENSED EXPERIMENTAL
MEDICATION”

-For information about ibogaine treatment in the UK please call Hattie on 07949
262 949 email: epoptica@freeuk.com Or Edward on 0207 833 3327. NOT GOVERNMENT
LICENSED

– Ibogaine treatment in Mexico or Europe. Cost approx. US$1800. Visit
www.ibogainetreatment.net for further details LICENSING STATUS UNKNOWN

– Ibogaine treatment in a Panamanian hospital. Cost – approx UK?9,000,
(US$15,000). GOVERNMENT LICENSED Contact:
Dr. Edgardo Della Sera
Panama Ibogaine Project
Clinica del Nino
Apdo 447
David, Chiriqui
Republic of Panama
e-mail ibogaine@chiriqui.com
fax: +507 777 3579

– Medically supervised ibogaine treatment at a hospital in Lahore, Pakistan with
Dr Kalbe Abbas for around ?1,000, (US$1500).
Dr. Kalbe Abbas MBBS,
5-F Waris Road,
Lahore, Pakistan
Tel: +92-042-7586712
Fax c/o Asif Zaidi: +92-042-6372700
Fax c/o Dr. Fayyaz: +92-042-6373228
E-mail: kabbas@brain.net.pk GOVERNMENT LICENSING UNNECESSARY IN PAKISTAN

– Ibogaine treatment via Eric Taub’s “I begin again” organisation. Based in
Florida, but operating outside of the US. Cost – UK?600-1,500, (US$900-2,500).
Visit www.ibeginagain.org for further details. NOT GOVERNMENT LICENSED

– Medically supervised ibogaine treatment in Northern Italy with Karl Naeher for
around ?1,000, (US$1500). Visit www.ibogainetreatment.com for further details.
NOT GOVERNMENT LICENSED.

– Treatment with Tabernanthe iboga in either the Cameroun or France. Cost approx
UK?800, (~US$1,300). Visit http://www.iboga.org for further information. NOT GOVERNMENT LICENSED

Options for supply (they will not ship to the US, but if you know someone in
another country that will receive it and ship it to you then they will gladly
ship to them if outside the US.  “Ibogaine has been made illegal in the United
States and Belgium, Switzerland and Sweden, therefore we will not export it to
these countries.”

Possession of ibogaine is a criminal offence in the USA, Belgium, Sweden and
Switzerland, and may be so in other countries.

– 98% pure Ibogaine hydrochloride. Cost: for 1-9g – EUR 256 per gram,
(~UK?170/g, US$300/g); for 10+ grams – EUR 128 per gram, (~ UK?80/g, US$120/g).
E-mail sacrament@sacrament.kibla.si for details. NOT GOVERNMENT LICENSED

– Tabernanthe iboga root and rootbark . Root US$50 for 50g. Rootbark US$55 for
5g. Currently available from a Dutch-based site, www.maya-ethnobotanicals.com/
NOT GOVERNMENT LICENSED

– Tabernanthe iboga whole plant, extract, and ibogaine HCl all available from
this Canada based outlet. http://ethnogarden.yage.net/ibogabark.htm NOT GOVERNMENT LICENSED

– Tabernanthe iboga powdered root capsules. Developed as a low-dose daily regime
in Holland and Gabon, these pre-packed capsules come as a complete course. Cost
approx. US$20 per 60. Visit www.iboga.nl for details. NOT GOVERNMENT LICENSED

– Tabernanthe iboga rootbark . US$44 for 5g. Danish site, http://www.ethnoplanet.dk/prvcgi/www_ethnoplanet_com/Varer.asp?Kategori=23 NOT GOVERNMENT
LICENSED

– Indra iboga extract (extracted iboga alkaloids) from the Indra Project in
Kristiania, Denmark. Contact Indra at www.indra.dk/ for further details. Indra
estimate this product to be approximately one quarter to one fifth the strength
of pure ibogaine. NOT GOVERNMENT LICENSED

– The Indra extract is also available from Cosmic Shrooms of Japan. Visit
www.cmp-lab.or.jp/~toko/index.htm for details. NOT GOVERNMENT LICENSED

—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: 06 Oct 03, 4:47 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Pub LTE on iboga
I have got to try Ibogaine!! This is like a dream come true!! No withdrawl after being on 236mg of Methadone?! It should be a piece of cake for me as I am only on 100mg! I have started an ‘Ibogaine savings’ so I can try this without wrecking my budget.
Peace, Callie

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Pub LTE on iboga
Date: October 6, 2003 at 7:40:29 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I have got to try Ibogaine!! This is like a dream come true!! No withdrawl after being on 236mg of Methadone?! It should be a piece of cake for me as I am only on 100mg! I have started an ‘Ibogaine savings’ so I can try this without wrecking my budget.
Peace, Callie

From: deartheo@ziplip.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Pub LTE on iboga
Date: October 5, 2003 at 10:46:47 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

SEPTEMBER 19 – 25, 2003  Letters to the Editor  LAWeekly

Kick Starter

Thank you so very much for your courage to publish an article [“Turn On, Meet God, Get Straight,” August 22–28] about a Schedule 1 (no medical value) plant called iboga that is the only non-opioid that can take away opioid physical addiction.

I personally stopped cold turkey (with iboga) using a dose of 263 ml a day of methadone (the clinic starts 20-year heroin junkies off at 30 ml). This is a miracle cure, and it is simply being suppressed in the media. It should be on the front page of every paper, but it’s not.

The NIH and FDA cannot suppress this miracle cure for much longer. The word has been getting out for 30 years now, and other countries have been using it successfully for years.

—Jason Bursey
Arlington, Texas

http://www.laweekly.com/ink/03/44/letters.php

From: deartheo@ziplip.com
Subject: [ibogaine] bill quote
Date: October 3, 2003 at 8:58:12 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“Did you ever read H.G. Wells’ ‘The Country of the Blind’?  About a man stuck in a country where all the other inhabitants had been blind so many generations they had lost the concept of sight.  He flips.
‘But don’t you understand I can SEE?’

As Ever,
Bill”
-from the Yage Letters

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Buprenorphine and Iboga and Yage
Date: October 3, 2003 at 7:19:22 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 10/3/03 9:50:11 PM, deartheo@ziplip.com writes:

I know we were discussing (not enough in my opinion) how iboga compairs
with yage in treating addiciton.  Has anyone heard of anyone useing
buprenorphine
prior to or after iboga treatment.  I know next to nothing about
buprenorphine
so if it is a shitty treatment sorry for bringing it up, i’m learning as
i go : )

Buprenorphine is a narcotic having both agonist an antagonist actions.  It
can precipitate withdrawal in an opioid dependent patient.  There is a lot of
information on buprenorphine on the web but, my guess is no one has used
ibogaine to treat buprenorphine dependence.  Or followed ibogaine therapy with
buprenorphine.  Your question is a very interesting one.

Howard

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Case Studies of Ibogaine Treatment
Date: October 3, 2003 at 7:13:10 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I am pleased to announce the Elsevier has given permission to reproduce the
chapter by Norma Alexander and myself, “Case Studies of Ibogaine Treatment:
Implications for Patient Management Strategies” from The Alkaloids series, vol.
56, IBOGAINE: PROCEEDINGS OF THE FIRST INTERNATIONAL CONFERENCE on the Dora
Weiner Foundation web page. The Editors of vol. 56 are Alper, Glick and Cordell.

http://www.doraweiner.org/alexanderlotsof.html

Regards,

Howard

Howard S. Lotsof
President
Dora Weiner Foundation
46 Oxford Place
Staten Island, NY 10301
USA
dir tel, 1 718 442-2754
dir fax, 1 8198 442-1957
email, dwf123@earthlink.net
http://www.doraweiner.org

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ant from Brain ment More
Date: October 3, 2003 at 6:01:05 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In NY will they provide presribed methadone in jail or is that only a Texas
thing? <

Rikers Island does give methadone if docs decide the prisoner really is an
addict.

I never got high off methadone, even at my high dose, it just made me feel
like a normal human being;<

Me neither, and a sweaty human being at that.

I made the big mistake of dropping in to my old NA group once while on
methadone, i thought they were going to run me out of the room.<

I was very open about my methadone use while going to NA rooms, and boy did
I cause trouble for the “clean” ones who simply couldn’t stand the idea that
I sounded rational on methadone- I couldn’t REALLY be rational because I was
on DRUGS. Or so some loudly asserted.
Egad. That raised some hackles for sure. I though the ol’ tar and
feathers were going to come out once or twice when I insisted on “sharing.”
Anyway,
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: <deartheo@ziplip.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 12:35 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] ant from Brain ment More

I’m listening to George Clintons ‘One Nation Under Groove’ so if my words
bob in rythem i appoligize : )
Methadone clinics can make life much, much more managable to the often
irreliable supply of street junk and the like.  I think that is the reason
the clinics “helped” so much when i simply didn’t have the time to take off
work to kick (for one week) heroin/cocaine cocktails; the coke put in
becasue a tolerance happens with opiates so quickly i only got high off
straight heroin for maybe a month if that.  Opiates are the most over rated
but ‘balls grabbing’ substance i’ve ever come across.  I can’t say i was
able to do this, but it really would have helped if i had s-l-o-w-l-y, very
slowly went down.  Alot of the staff will say a few ml each day, but to me
that eventually adds up the more you do it, so with respect to the sickness
and how long it lasts with methadone, i wouldn’t go down anymore then 1 ml a
month, just to keep the sickness away.  Of course the lower you get down the
more of a % of your dose you are cutting so it obviously gets harder the
lower you go.  Thats why i wish they would let you cut down to 1/2 a ml from
1 ml and 1/4 ml before moving from 1/2.

I have been to 5 different methadone clinics in Dallas/Ft.Worth and none of
them pervided insurance coverage or medicare or sliding scale payments or
anything.  Perhaps i had bad luck in choosing clinics because their are
around 20 around the metroplex.

In NY will they provide presribed methadone in jail or is that only a Texas
thing?  Well, let me correct that, it is technically up to a ‘jail doctor’
who will determain weither you should recieve your prescribed methadone in
jail (19 out of 20 will not).  That is the scariest thing to me about being
on methadone, the reality of instantly being full fledged sick if accussed
of a crime.

I never got high off methadone, even at my high dose, it just made me feel
like a normal human being; who had to wake up at 5:30am before work to
remind me i’m a junkie while waiting in the hopelessness of the methadone
waiting room, trying to dodge the police who persistently stake out the
methadone clinics….no i don’t miss that at all.  But thier is no question
in my mind that methadone and orlaam are way more physically addicting then
heroin, but who can get a REAL long term reliable supply of heroin?  All
that is sickness dressed up as a high.

I know what you mean in regard to attending a methadone clinic to others not
considered as ‘clean’ (who is without ‘sin’ and who are they to judge, ‘cast
the first stone’ and all that).  I made the big mistake of dropping in to my
old NA group once while on methadone, i thought they were going to run me
out of the room.

Like i said i never got high off methadone and i think about the only
positive experience from me being on it for so long was that i got alot of
the compulsion to get high, i never shot anything while on methadone (or
after) so it helped me end that distructive habit.  It also helped me even
out the highs and lows any street junkie knows too well…”well (your
connect) is asleep, he was up for 9 days straight so he’ll be out for a few
days at least” meanwhile you have to get to work in 30 mins, have to score
from someone to not be sick, hopefully no battery acid etc.   Just crazy,
and methadone clinics helped me get away from that, at a very high price…a
stronger opiate that doesn’t deliver a high.

Funny how things change.
—–Original Message—–
From: sara [mailto:sara119@xs4all.nl]
Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003, 6:59 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Re: A Rant from Brain Ailment  Not a Moral Lapse

Hey callie,

Yep, you can call it pretty clean, I agree with you.

—–Original Message—–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com [mailto:CallieMimosa@aol.com]
Sent: vrijdag 3 oktober 2003 15:09
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: A Rant from Brain Ailment Not a Moral Lapse

Sara, I, like you, am not satisfied with the word ‘clean’ for my present
status. But, my life is manageable now. Methadone is the only drug I use
now so until I find a better word I use ‘clean.’ Also, I was an opiate
garbage can before…..pills, by mouth and IV, syrups, for cough, pain,
diarrhea……a real mess!!! Plus the benzodiazepines and weed……
Yep, I am pretty clean now! hahaha!!!
Peace to all, Callie

From: deartheo@ziplip.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Buprenorphine and Iboga and Yage
Date: October 3, 2003 at 5:46:48 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I know we were discussing (not enough in my opinion) how iboga compairs with yage in treating addiciton.  Has anyone heard of anyone useing buprenorphine prior to or after iboga treatment.  I know next to nothing about buprenorphine so if it is a shitty treatment sorry for bringing it up, i’m learning as i go : )

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: A Rant from Brain Ailment Not a Moral Lapse
Date: October 3, 2003 at 1:14:38 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

If I may add 2 cents (to me/for me) and sort of an
update on a previously treated drug addict with
ibogaine (numerous times) and current use of narcotic
pain meds (for pain silly).

Clean is more of a state of mind. I am on prescription
narcotics (oxycontin) and consider myself quite
“clean”. There are some side effects I choose to place
little attention to – like a slight (very slight) pull
or urge at times, it sometimes effects my mood when I
get “low” or a slight desire for a cigarette that
annoys me a bit (I quit 15 months ago). They are just
side effects from having receptors tickled by the
narcotics, no more, no less. It is not “me” like the
drugs became when I was using. I can if I so choose
stop (on a dime) without the slightest craving – FYI,
I did couple months ago (no ibo or anything, kind of a
sick control-issue kind of thing – now spit, look
tough… ain’t nothing, kind of thing). What a change
to be told by the doctor TO take drugs and NOT to stop
the narcotics – which I would just spontainously do.
My biggest problem stopping (meds). stopping is no big
deal, starting is a horror (to me), I have to ramp up
over weeks cause it feels so uncomfortable. This is a
side effect from the ibogaine treatment, this NEVER
use to happen to me – it use to be YUM, DRUGS, GOOD,
MORE…

The past 3 weeks or so have been pretty bad (pain),
normally I am on 40mg (10mg 4X) plus perc breakthrough
(5mg oxy) and was getting into the reserves and a
hairs breath from stopping (it was losing its
effectiveness) a sure-fire way to increase the
effectiveness of pain meds, stop them. Then the pain
eased up (it is weather pattern related and other
things were involved) and like always I just find my
level. So for the past 2 days I have had the sweats,
goose-bumps, weakness… and not a craving in site –
slight “rebound” pain discomfort but nothing really.

Point; when the drug is in control of my spirit I am
not “clean”. “clean” also comes in levels and is
relative. I walk into an AA meeting and they consider
themselves “clean”, meanwhile 80% of them are addicted
to cigarettes, coffee with sugar, garbage food, bad
health habits, they are addicted to meetings often
enough with “FEAR” if they don’t attend (use???) – and
if I pay close attention and listen to them I can be
JUST LIKE THEM (they know better, I am deceiving
myself…). Somehow “just one drink away” seems a
little close to the edge for me – if I am really
“clean” (and sober) what is there to be so worried
about? I get images of the movie/TV scene where the
bad guys grab the RECOVERING good guy alcoholic, pour
alcohol down his throat and he is off, out of
control… Whatever it is, there is nothing in me to
“trigger” that any more, it is all gone and has been
replaced by a force of will I never had. There is no
substance that can be put in my body that will cause
me to go “off to the races”, ain’t gonna happen, ever.
I was in a 1/2 way house with guys that were not
using, but were hardly “clean”, 1 guy had 6 years of
white nuckles… He couldn’t/didn’t “use” but that was
it. A drug addict minus drugs is a sad site to behold,
I offered to drive them to pick-up, just so I could
watch them get off, get sick, be miserable…

There are those who I meet, on methadone for many
years, living their lives without the use of other
addicting drugs (if to you GRASS is, then add it to
YOUR list), no addict behavior/active friends…. For
the most part except for the physical addiction, they
are in my mind, relatively clean – being basically
over the drug addiction and left with a rather nasty
methadone physical addiction.

(“Clean is;” LOL) I sometimes forget to take meds and
throw myself into withdrawal, it is the strangest
thing to do for someone who was once deep in addiction
and currently physically habituated to a narcotic.
That’s clean and let me tell you, what a difference,
what a pleasure to be like this and not like THAT…
like waking up and being re-wired. The one side effect
I don’t like (from ibo) is I find any “feeling” I may
get from meds (none now) is uncomfortable, I dislike
it (99% and the 1% that does, we don’t talk to any
longer…).

Getting myself out of being IN RECOVERY, looked at as
a RECOVERING ADDICT  – to be “careful” with certain
things around, that is “clean”.

Med time, speaking of. Done. My hands were getting
sticky on the keyboard. By tomorrow/day after any side
effect (minor withdrawal symptoms) will be gone.

My WORST problems with drugs today are with doctors
trying to help me and people in recovery trying to get
me to join their non-religion, to be saved, and of
course ridiculed and looked down upon (he is “out
there”… poor soul). I did try meetings when I first
went on heavy pain meds, I got both good and bad, more
bad I think. No-one should have to go to a 12 step
meeting and feel like the visiting nigger. Some showed
me respect, others “said” things either directly to me
or to other people, sometimes they were VERY insistant
on impressing their opinion on me and everyone around
me. Sometimes they learned, saw me and understood. SO
(I am happily deep in relapse, denial, rationalizing
and all that other recovery crap… I don’t smoke,
don’t drink (alcohol), am not a habitual anything
(coffee, sugar, sex…), don’t do any drugs except
when they will help. “Help” works both ways and means
DO take something when it will “HELP” and DON’T when
it won’t “HELP”. That I have to remind myself of or I
will just stop or when the paing gets bad,
over-medicate (oxy in particular is useless after a
certain point, I do NOT chase pain with meds… bad
idea).

Brett

— CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
Sara, I, like you, am not satisfied with the word
‘clean’ for my present
status. But, my life is manageable now. Methadone is
the only drug I use now so
until I find a better word I use ‘clean.’ Also, I
was an opiate garbage can
before…..pills, by mouth and IV, syrups, for
cough, pain, diarrhea……a real
mess!!! Plus the benzodiazepines and weed……
Yep, I am pretty clean now! hahaha!!!
Peace to all, Callie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping – with improved product search
http://shopping.yahoo.com

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: A Rant from Brain Ailment Not a Moral Lapse
Date: October 3, 2003 at 1:06:37 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 10/3/03 10:52:40 AM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

I don’t know.
I would imagine that if someone is on federal assistance, it would be the
same in all 50 states, no?
But I really don’t know.

Peace,
Preston

Usually, state Medicaid pays for methadone and only 18 states authorize that.
Generally, for Medicare the answer is no.  However, my understanding is that
some people manage it possibly as parts of medical services where the
provider is cooperative but, I really don’t know.

Howard

From: deartheo@ziplip.com
Subject: [ibogaine] ant from Brain ment More
Date: October 3, 2003 at 12:35:38 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m listening to George Clintons ‘One Nation Under Groove’ so if my words bob in rythem i appoligize : )
Methadone clinics can make life much, much more managable to the often irreliable supply of street junk and the like.  I think that is the reason the clinics “helped” so much when i simply didn’t have the time to take off work to kick (for one week) heroin/cocaine cocktails; the coke put in becasue a tolerance happens with opiates so quickly i only got high off straight heroin for maybe a month if that.  Opiates are the most over rated but ‘balls grabbing’ substance i’ve ever come across.  I can’t say i was able to do this, but it really would have helped if i had s-l-o-w-l-y, very slowly went down.  Alot of the staff will say a few ml each day, but to me that eventually adds up the more you do it, so with respect to the sickness and how long it lasts with methadone, i wouldn’t go down anymore then 1 ml a month, just to keep the sickness away.  Of course the lower you get down the more of a % of your dose you are cutting so it obviously gets harder the lower you go.  Thats why i wish they would let you cut down to 1/2 a ml from 1 ml and 1/4 ml before moving from 1/2.

I have been to 5 different methadone clinics in Dallas/Ft.Worth and none of them pervided insurance coverage or medicare or sliding scale payments or anything.  Perhaps i had bad luck in choosing clinics because their are around 20 around the metroplex.

In NY will they provide presribed methadone in jail or is that only a Texas thing?  Well, let me correct that, it is technically up to a ‘jail doctor’ who will determain weither you should recieve your prescribed methadone in jail (19 out of 20 will not).  That is the scariest thing to me about being on methadone, the reality of instantly being full fledged sick if accussed of a crime.

I never got high off methadone, even at my high dose, it just made me feel like a normal human being; who had to wake up at 5:30am before work to remind me i’m a junkie while waiting in the hopelessness of the methadone waiting room, trying to dodge the police who persistently stake out the methadone clinics….no i don’t miss that at all.  But thier is no question in my mind that methadone and orlaam are way more physically addicting then heroin, but who can get a REAL long term reliable supply of heroin?  All that is sickness dressed up as a high.

I know what you mean in regard to attending a methadone clinic to others not considered as ‘clean’ (who is without ‘sin’ and who are they to judge, ‘cast the first stone’ and all that).  I made the big mistake of dropping in to my old NA group once while on methadone, i thought they were going to run me out of the room.

Like i said i never got high off methadone and i think about the only positive experience from me being on it for so long was that i got alot of the compulsion to get high, i never shot anything while on methadone (or after) so it helped me end that distructive habit.  It also helped me even out the highs and lows any street junkie knows too well…”well (your connect) is asleep, he was up for 9 days straight so he’ll be out for a few days at least” meanwhile you have to get to work in 30 mins, have to score from someone to not be sick, hopefully no battery acid etc.   Just crazy, and methadone clinics helped me get away from that, at a very high price…a stronger opiate that doesn’t deliver a high.

Funny how things change.
—–Original Message—–
From: sara [mailto:sara119@xs4all.nl]
Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003, 6:59 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Re: A Rant from Brain Ailment  Not a Moral Lapse

Hey callie,

Yep, you can call it pretty clean, I agree with you.

—–Original Message—–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com [mailto:CallieMimosa@aol.com]
Sent: vrijdag 3 oktober 2003 15:09
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: A Rant from Brain Ailment Not a Moral Lapse

Sara, I, like you, am not satisfied with the word ‘clean’ for my present
status. But, my life is manageable now. Methadone is the only drug I use
now so until I find a better word I use ‘clean.’ Also, I was an opiate
garbage can before…..pills, by mouth and IV, syrups, for cough, pain,
diarrhea……a real mess!!! Plus the benzodiazepines and weed……
Yep, I am pretty clean now! hahaha!!!
Peace to all, Callie

From: “sara” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Re: A Rant from Brain Ailment Not a Moral Lapse
Date: October 3, 2003 at 9:53:59 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey callie,

Yep, you can call it pretty clean, I agree with you.

—–Original Message—–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com [mailto:CallieMimosa@aol.com] 
Sent: vrijdag 3 oktober 2003 15:09
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: A Rant >from Brain Ailment Not a Moral Lapse

Sara, I, like you, am not satisfied with the word ‘clean’ for my present status. But, my life is manageable now. Methadone is the only drug I use now so until I find a better word I use ‘clean.’ Also, I was an opiate garbage can before…..pills, by mouth and IV, syrups, for cough, pain, diarrhea……a real mess!!! Plus the benzodiazepines and weed……
Yep, I am pretty clean now! hahaha!!!
Peace to all, Callie

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: A Rant from Brain Ailment Not a Moral Lapse
Date: October 3, 2003 at 9:08:37 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sara, I, like you, am not satisfied with the word ‘clean’ for my present status. But, my life is manageable now. Methadone is the only drug I use now so until I find a better word I use ‘clean.’ Also, I was an opiate garbage can before…..pills, by mouth and IV, syrups, for cough, pain, diarrhea……a real mess!!! Plus the benzodiazepines and weed……
Yep, I am pretty clean now! hahaha!!!
Peace to all, Callie

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: A Rant from Brain Ailment Not a Moral Lapse
Date: October 3, 2003 at 6:51:50 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I don’t know.
I would imagine that if someone is on federal assistance, it would be the
same in all 50 states, no?
But I really don’t know.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: <deartheo@ziplip.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 7:53 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: A Rant from Brain Ailment Not a Moral Lapse

do they cover nationally or only in select states?
—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003, 3:37 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: A Rant from Brain Ailment  Not a Moral Lapse

sorry, that should read “as recently as 2000,” not “1996.”
Still does it count?
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 4:46 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: A Rant from Brain Ailment Not a Moral Lapse

(methadone clinics are not covered by insurance for example).<

As recently as 1996, methadone clinics in NYC were covered by
Medicare.
Does that count as insurance?
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: <deartheo@ziplip.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 11:12 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: A Rant from Brain Ailment Not a Moral Lapse

I think it blurs the reality of the situation when you start (as
usually
is
done) grouping all drugs as the same, especially if you start saying
that
using a substance (all of them?) is a disease.  For opioid addiction,
yes
absolutely it is a physical condition that should (but most often is
not)
covered by insurance (methadone clinics are not covered by insurance
for
example).  But even crack-cocaine isn’t PHYSICALLY addicting, nor are
hallucinogens or marijuana; but ironically enough alcohol if used
daily
for
some time IS physically addicting.  The fact is each individual drug
deserves its own investigation because they are not the same.
Unfortunately, to find the truth out from experience is to bite off
more
then one can chew usually.  So the majority of people (especially
parents)
go with the flow of misinformation given by gov’t sponsored
indoctrination
programs usually taught by a police officer with a gun, and who in
there
right mind would argue with someone with a gun.

I have found that I agree with what the Rational Recovery people say
more
then the 12 step addiction is a disease’ way of thinking.  In other
words,
i
don’t want my future self to continue to be plagued by my past, it is
a
matter to some extent of self identity (i am not a former junkie but a
person) and keeping consistent on not throwing my hands up in the air
saying
“fuck it” is essential.

Could you say the same if chocolate were outlawed?  I do believe their
is
a
behavior of an ‘addict’, someone who can’t own a espresso machine
because
they will drink 20 cups in an hour, but how often (if not opioids)
does it
really hurt physically if they stop whatever they choose that day
(speed
and
cocaine and even marijuana users find themselves in 12 step programs)?
To
me that is compulsion not real addiction, and compulsion can be easily
learned and with time and sincerity can be unlearned.
It appears to me that the way the systM is set up to use scare
tactics
to
“keep the majority of people from trying it even once” are a direct
contributor to peoples willingness to experiment with new substances
after
trying marijuana for the first time after being told marijuana is as
bad
as
heroin and finding out through personal experience how safe it is
wrongfully
assume that the rest of the substances are as safe as marijuana, which
with
the possible exception of natural hallucinogens, they are not.  And
the
truth continues to be buried in so much misinformation and the truth
from
experience is stigmatized by misinformation supporters who are tying
to
pass
bills like the Victory Act, linking even drug USE with international
terrorism with penalties that are way more then any violent rapist
would
receive.  And don’t get me started on how politicians and media group
non-violent crime and violent crime as simply “crime”, again blurring
the
reality of the situation.

So lets ask ourselves, why politicians aren’t getting the legalization
message to end economic opportunities for terrorist that would
otherwise
not
be there.  To be honest, their are very few US citizens who feel safe
saying
it.  Even people who have never done a drug in their life see the
logic in
legalization, but to be in gov’t and speaking this is political
blasphemy
and political suicide, or so they think.  And we have to consider the
drug
cartels prohibition creates have plenty of money to line the
pocketbooks
of
US politicians, US Gov’t agencies, and US Banks for Fractal Reserve
Banking,
where the number one borrower, the US Gov’t can borrow up to 10 times
what
the bank has.  Not to mention the convenience of having an illegal
trade
to
help some of our poor “friend” nations or uprisings of enemy nations
to
help
fund their efforts.  We can’t even have a national debate about
legalization
because technically the RAVE ACT (passed as an attachment to a very
legitimate National ‘Amber Alert’ Bill) gives authorities the legal
authority to harass the organizer and shut the event down.  They have
already enforced the RAVE ACT with a NORML chapter meeting.  I guess
to
test
the waters.  But we seem not to act unless the news media tells us to
react.

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003, 7:06 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] Addiction: A Brain Ailment, Not a
Moral
Lapse

—– Original Message —–
From: “Libby” <baystatebar@yahoo.com>
To: “drugwar” <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 3:40 PM
Subject: [drugwar] Addiction: A Brain Ailment, Not a Moral Lapse

Pretty good article on the cause of addiction.

Libby


4bfd824843895

excerpts:

In other words, addiction is a brain disease, not a
moral failing or behavior problem. People do not
deliberately set out to become addicts. Rather, for
any number of reasons – like wanting to be part of the
crowd or seeking relief from intense emotional or
physical pain – people may start using a substance and
soon find themselves unable to stop.

Because prolonged exposure to abused drugs results in
long-lasting changes in the brain, “addiction should
be considered a chronic medical illness,” the
Barcelona scientists said. As with other chronic
illnesses, including hypertension and diabetes,
addiction and its treatment require “long-term
strategies based on medication, psychological support
and continued monitoring,” they concluded. In
addition, other experts have suggested, treatment of
addiction should be fully insured with no limit on the
number of visits covered.

=====
Libby Spencer
Northampton, MA 01060
PUBLISHER: LAST ONE SPEAKS
http://lastonespeaks.blogspot.com/

email: baystatebar@yahoo.com

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping – with improved product search
http://shopping.yahoo.com

<]=———————————————————————–=[

[           Moderated by: Preston Peet |
.drugwar.com           ]
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From: “sara” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Re: A Rant from Brain Ailment Not a Moral Lapse
Date: October 3, 2003 at 2:04:07 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I can’t call it “clean”. It just stop you from getting sick but is you are not clean. Clean is when you don’t need to use anything. not replace one evil with another.

—–Original Message—–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com [mailto:CallieMimosa@aol.com]
Sent: vrijdag 3 oktober 2003 4:17
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: A Rant from Brain Ailment Not a Moral Lapse

My Methadone Treatment is covered 100% by my insurance as long as I remain clean screens and participate toward my recovery, keeping appointments with counselor and physician, remaining employed and any other goals that I and my counselor set for me.

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: A Rant from Brain Ailment Not a Moral Lapse
Date: October 2, 2003 at 10:16:31 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

My Methadone Treatment is covered 100% by my insurance as long as I remain clean screens and participate toward my recovery, keeping appointments with counselor and physician, remaining employed and any other goals that I and my counselor set for me.

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] limbaugh and drugs
Date: October 2, 2003 at 9:41:16 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.issues2000.org/Celeb/Rush_Limbaugh_Drugs.htm

<

Thanks Lee,
But there’s also this, that as I noted elsewhere, someone should alert
Issues2000 about-

http://www.ndsn.org/marapr98/legal1.html

Rush Limbaugh Ponders Legal Drug Market (March 1998)
And, from the same Issues2000 website, there’s this view of pot from Patrick
Buchanan that someone forwarded to the DrugWar list-

http://www.issues2000.org/Celeb/Pat_Buchanan_Drugs.htm

I’m against the legalization of marijuana. People say it’s a victimless
crime. [But the manager of a rehabilitation center] said that 10% of
the children in Iowa are born with some kind of drug affliction, and 5%
of them suffer permanent damage. As soon as I heard that, these little
children are going to suffer their whole lives because of drugs their
parents took, I think we can’t quit the war on drugs and we can’t
legalize marijuana.
Source: Interview on “CNN Talkback Live” Jan 24, 2000

Yikes.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: leesmithjr
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 7:34 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] limbaugh and drugs

http://www.issues2000.org/Celeb/Rush_Limbaugh_Drugs.htm

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Thursday, October 02, 2003 16:52:12
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] limbaugh and drugs

Once a person who is a left-wing, moderate, or conservative individual
begins listening to Limbaugh, though they may disagree with him, they find
that he is very funny and entertaining. Over a period of time, one finds
that he is sometimes right on some issues. Over a longer period of time
(read INDOCTRINATION), one begins to find that he is right MOST of the time.
Then, after your brain has been sufficiently programmed, you find that you
most often agree with him.

Then he discusses an issue that really hits your hot button, and you decide
to call in and throw in your two cents. So, as a long-time…or newly
converted short-timer, you naturally start off with praise and adoration
directed toward the minister of propaganda. This would normally be conveyed
with statements such as, “I’m a …time listener, I love your show…I just
wanted to start out by saying ‘you’re so right on this issue’….blah, blah,
blah. For the admirers this was the standard “gush,” until one occasion when
a person called and provided such “gush” about how great he was, and the
next caller simply said “Ditto’s” to what the last guy said about the show.
Thereupon, the most typical “gush” is merely the statement, “Ditto’s Rush,
from…” Thus was born the concept of “Ditto-heads,” that Rush and his
listeners proudly reference. A Ditto-Head is one who listens to Rush
regularly, agrees with just about everything he says, and has either called
in to the show, or one who would like to call in to lay on positive strokes
and to drop their two cents into the bucket.

I rarely listen to him anymore, but every once in a while I’ll put him on
for a while because his show is often very funny and entertaining. He does
some very good bits that are extremely funny, unless one is overly offended
or takes the things he pokes fun at too seriously…spotted
owls…environmentalism…Yugo’s…condoms/birth control/abortion…animal
rights, etc. By-and-large, he is merely a minister of propaganda whose
listeners fail to realize that they are reading and thinking less and less
on their own….or merely dining on CNN and a newspaper or two. End-result:
ignorant, ill-informed, right-wing conservative convert who has a knee-jerk
reaction and “knows” how it “really” is about almost everything.

My deliverance and salvation came by the hands of all the drug-users I work
and interact with, as I finally realized that all which glitters isn’t gold,
and that most often, the one who sparkles least, actually shines the most
when they are buffed and polished. There truly is “a system,” and its desire
is to mash out a conformist, non-thinking, dumbed-down populace which they
profit from and exert a ridiculous amount of control over….bricks in the
wall. Folks that think for themselves, challenge authority, and question the
status quo are considered to be little more than purveyors of
“Thought-Crime.”

But I’d best not get started…that hole runs deeper than you can imagine.

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com 10/02/03 04:14PM >>>
What’s a “ditto-head?”
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 10:11 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] limbaugh and drugs

Having been a former “ditto-head,” Limbaugh’s stance on drugs is most
accurately described by his oft-repeated statement, “A bunch of long-hair,
dope-smoking, left-wing, liberal FM types.” Other than that, I don’t recall
any significant statements re: drugs, as he sticks mainly to political
stuff.

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com 10/02/03 09:55AM >>>
Anyone know anything about Limbaughs public stance on drugs and druggies?
Has he made public statements in the past about either? I must admit I’ve
never listened to Rush Limbaugh, just know him mainly by reputation and the
brief clips I’ve heard- and those never lead me to rush to the radio and
find his program.
Peace,
Preston

Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including attachments, is for
the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and
privleged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, or
distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please
contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original
message.

Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including attachments, is for
the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and
privleged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, or
distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please
contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original
message.

.

____________________________________________________
IncrediMail – Email has finally evolved – Click Here

From: “leesmithjr” <leesmithjr@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] limbaugh and drugs
Date: October 2, 2003 at 7:34:50 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.issues2000.org/Celeb/Rush_Limbaugh_Drugs.htm

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Thursday, October 02, 2003 16:52:12
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] limbaugh and drugs

Once a person who is a left-wing, moderate, or conservative individual begins listening to Limbaugh, though they may disagree with him, they find that he is very funny and entertaining. Over a period of time, one finds that he is sometimes right on some issues. Over a longer period of time (read INDOCTRINATION), one begins to find that he is right MOST of the time. Then, after your brain has been sufficiently programmed, you find that you most often agree with him.

Then he discusses an issue that really hits your hot button, and you decide to call in and throw in your two cents. So, as a long-time…or newly converted short-timer, you naturally start off with praise and adoration directed toward the minister of propaganda. This would normally be conveyed with statements such as, “I’m a …time listener, I love your show…I just wanted to start out by saying ‘you’re so right on this issue’….blah, blah, blah. For the admirers this was the standard “gush,” until one occasion when a person called and provided such “gush” about how great he was, and the next caller simply said “Ditto’s” to what the last guy said about the show. Thereupon, the most typical “gush” is merely the statement, “Ditto’s Rush, from…” Thus was born the concept of “Ditto-heads,” that Rush and his listeners proudly reference. A Ditto-Head is one who listens to Rush regularly, agrees with just about everything he says, and has either called in to the show, or one who would like to call in to lay on positive strokes and to drop their two cents into the bucket.

I rarely listen to him anymore, but every once in a while I’ll put him on for a while because his show is often very funny and entertaining. He does some very good bits that are extremely funny, unless one is overly offended or takes the things he pokes fun at too seriously…spotted owls…environmentalism…Yugo’s…condoms/birth control/abortion…animal rights, etc. By-and-large, he is merely a minister of propaganda whose listeners fail to realize that they are reading and thinking less and less on their own….or merely dining on CNN and a newspaper or two. End-result: ignorant, ill-informed, right-wing conservative convert who has a knee-jerk reaction and “knows” how it “really” is about almost everything.

My deliverance and salvation came by the hands of all the drug-users I work and interact with, as I finally realized that all which glitters isn’t gold, and that most often, the one who sparkles least, actually shines the most when they are buffed and polished. There truly is “a system,” and its desire is to mash out a conformist, non-thinking, dumbed-down populace which they profit from and exert a ridiculous amount of control over….bricks in the wall. Folks that think for themselves, challenge authority, and question the status quo are considered to be little more than purveyors of “Thought-Crime.”

But I’d best not get started…that hole runs deeper than you can imagine.

>>> ptpeet@nyc.rr.com 10/02/03 04:14PM >>>
What’s a “ditto-head?”
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 10:11 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] limbaugh and drugs

Having been a former “ditto-head,” Limbaugh’s stance on drugs is most
accurately described by his oft-repeated statement, “A bunch of long-hair,
dope-smoking, left-wing, liberal FM types.” Other than that, I don’t recall
any significant statements re: drugs, as he sticks mainly to political
stuff.

>>> ptpeet@nyc.rr.com 10/02/03 09:55AM >>>
Anyone know anything about Limbaughs public stance on drugs and druggies?
Has he made public statements in the past about either? I must admit I’ve
never listened to Rush Limbaugh, just know him mainly by reputation and the
brief clips I’ve heard- and those never lead me to rush to the radio and
find his program.
Peace,
Preston

Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including attachments, is for
the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and
privleged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, or
distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please
contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original
message.

Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including attachments, is for
the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and
privleged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, or
distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please
contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original
message.

.

____________________________________________________
IncrediMail – Email has finally evolved – Click Here

From: deartheo@ziplip.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: A Rant from Brain Ailment Not a Moral Lapse
Date: October 2, 2003 at 7:53:26 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

do they cover nationally or only in select states?
—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003, 3:37 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: A Rant from Brain Ailment  Not a Moral Lapse

sorry, that should read “as recently as 2000,” not “1996.”
Still does it count?
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 4:46 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: A Rant from Brain Ailment Not a Moral Lapse

(methadone clinics are not covered by insurance for example).<

As recently as 1996, methadone clinics in NYC were covered by Medicare.
Does that count as insurance?
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: <deartheo@ziplip.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 11:12 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: A Rant from Brain Ailment Not a Moral Lapse

I think it blurs the reality of the situation when you start (as usually
is
done) grouping all drugs as the same, especially if you start saying that
using a substance (all of them?) is a disease.  For opioid addiction, yes
absolutely it is a physical condition that should (but most often is not)
covered by insurance (methadone clinics are not covered by insurance for
example).  But even crack-cocaine isn’t PHYSICALLY addicting, nor are
hallucinogens or marijuana; but ironically enough alcohol if used daily
for
some time IS physically addicting.  The fact is each individual drug
deserves its own investigation because they are not the same.
Unfortunately, to find the truth out from experience is to bite off more
then one can chew usually.  So the majority of people (especially parents)
go with the flow of misinformation given by gov’t sponsored indoctrination
programs usually taught by a police officer with a gun, and who in there
right mind would argue with someone with a gun.

I have found that I agree with what the Rational Recovery people say more
then the 12 step addiction is a disease’ way of thinking.  In other words,
i
don’t want my future self to continue to be plagued by my past, it is a
matter to some extent of self identity (i am not a former junkie but a
person) and keeping consistent on not throwing my hands up in the air
saying
“fuck it” is essential.

Could you say the same if chocolate were outlawed?  I do believe their is
a
behavior of an ‘addict’, someone who can’t own a espresso machine because
they will drink 20 cups in an hour, but how often (if not opioids) does it
really hurt physically if they stop whatever they choose that day (speed
and
cocaine and even marijuana users find themselves in 12 step programs)?  To
me that is compulsion not real addiction, and compulsion can be easily
learned and with time and sincerity can be unlearned.
It appears to me that the way the systM is set up to use scare tactics
to
“keep the majority of people from trying it even once” are a direct
contributor to peoples willingness to experiment with new substances after
trying marijuana for the first time after being told marijuana is as bad
as
heroin and finding out through personal experience how safe it is
wrongfully
assume that the rest of the substances are as safe as marijuana, which
with
the possible exception of natural hallucinogens, they are not.  And the
truth continues to be buried in so much misinformation and the truth from
experience is stigmatized by misinformation supporters who are tying to
pass
bills like the Victory Act, linking even drug USE with international
terrorism with penalties that are way more then any violent rapist would
receive.  And don’t get me started on how politicians and media group
non-violent crime and violent crime as simply “crime”, again blurring the
reality of the situation.

So lets ask ourselves, why politicians aren’t getting the legalization
message to end economic opportunities for terrorist that would otherwise
not
be there.  To be honest, their are very few US citizens who feel safe
saying
it.  Even people who have never done a drug in their life see the logic in
legalization, but to be in gov’t and speaking this is political blasphemy
and political suicide, or so they think.  And we have to consider the drug
cartels prohibition creates have plenty of money to line the pocketbooks
of
US politicians, US Gov’t agencies, and US Banks for Fractal Reserve
Banking,
where the number one borrower, the US Gov’t can borrow up to 10 times what
the bank has.  Not to mention the convenience of having an illegal trade
to
help some of our poor “friend” nations or uprisings of enemy nations to
help
fund their efforts.  We can’t even have a national debate about
legalization
because technically the RAVE ACT (passed as an attachment to a very
legitimate National ‘Amber Alert’ Bill) gives authorities the legal
authority to harass the organizer and shut the event down.  They have
already enforced the RAVE ACT with a NORML chapter meeting.  I guess to
test
the waters.  But we seem not to act unless the news media tells us to
react.

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003, 7:06 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] Addiction: A Brain Ailment, Not a
Moral
Lapse

—– Original Message —–
From: “Libby” <baystatebar@yahoo.com>
To: “drugwar” <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 3:40 PM
Subject: [drugwar] Addiction: A Brain Ailment, Not a Moral Lapse

Pretty good article on the cause of addiction.

Libby


4bfd824843895

excerpts:

In other words, addiction is a brain disease, not a
moral failing or behavior problem. People do not
deliberately set out to become addicts. Rather, for
any number of reasons – like wanting to be part of the
crowd or seeking relief from intense emotional or
physical pain – people may start using a substance and
soon find themselves unable to stop.

Because prolonged exposure to abused drugs results in
long-lasting changes in the brain, “addiction should
be considered a chronic medical illness,” the
Barcelona scientists said. As with other chronic
illnesses, including hypertension and diabetes,
addiction and its treatment require “long-term
strategies based on medication, psychological support
and continued monitoring,” they concluded. In
addition, other experts have suggested, treatment of
addiction should be fully insured with no limit on the
number of visits covered.

=====
Libby Spencer
Northampton, MA 01060
PUBLISHER: LAST ONE SPEAKS
http://lastonespeaks.blogspot.com/

email: baystatebar@yahoo.com

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping – with improved product search
http://shopping.yahoo.com

<]=———————————————————————–=[

[           Moderated by: Preston Peet |
.drugwar.com           ]
|          -=/[ To Subscribe: drugwar-subscribe@mindvox.com ]/=-
|
|             To Unsubscribe: drugwar-unsubscribe@mindvox.com
|
[   DrugWar List in Digest Format:
ugwar-digest-subscribe@mindvox.com   ]

<]=———————————————————————–=[

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Off list IGNORE – sorry, finger slipped
Date: October 2, 2003 at 7:45:29 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping – with improved product search
http://shopping.yahoo.com

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Off list IGNORE – sorry, finger slipped
Date: October 2, 2003 at 7:45:15 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Re: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] Australia: Girl, 5, Makes
Bong in Class

— CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
Hysterical blather?
We are only discussing, no one is hysterical but
you!
Callie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping – with improved product search
http://shopping.yahoo.com

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Off list
Date: October 2, 2003 at 7:44:28 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Re: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] Australia: Girl, 5, Makes
Bong in Class
— CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
Hysterical blather?
We are only discussing, no one is hysterical but
you!
Callie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping – with improved product search
http://shopping.yahoo.com

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: A Rant from Brain Ailment Not a Moral Lapse
Date: October 2, 2003 at 6:11:17 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

sorry, that should read “as recently as 2000,” not “1996.”
Still does it count?
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 4:46 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: A Rant from Brain Ailment Not a Moral Lapse

(methadone clinics are not covered by insurance for example).<

As recently as 1996, methadone clinics in NYC were covered by Medicare.
Does that count as insurance?
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: <deartheo@ziplip.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 11:12 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: A Rant from Brain Ailment Not a Moral Lapse

I think it blurs the reality of the situation when you start (as usually
is
done) grouping all drugs as the same, especially if you start saying that
using a substance (all of them?) is a disease.  For opioid addiction, yes
absolutely it is a physical condition that should (but most often is not)
covered by insurance (methadone clinics are not covered by insurance for
example).  But even crack-cocaine isn’t PHYSICALLY addicting, nor are
hallucinogens or marijuana; but ironically enough alcohol if used daily
for
some time IS physically addicting.  The fact is each individual drug
deserves its own investigation because they are not the same.
Unfortunately, to find the truth out from experience is to bite off more
then one can chew usually.  So the majority of people (especially parents)
go with the flow of misinformation given by gov’t sponsored indoctrination
programs usually taught by a police officer with a gun, and who in there
right mind would argue with someone with a gun.

I have found that I agree with what the Rational Recovery people say more
then the 12 step addiction is a disease’ way of thinking.  In other words,
i
don’t want my future self to continue to be plagued by my past, it is a
matter to some extent of self identity (i am not a former junkie but a
person) and keeping consistent on not throwing my hands up in the air
saying
“fuck it” is essential.

Could you say the same if chocolate were outlawed?  I do believe their is
a
behavior of an ‘addict’, someone who can’t own a espresso machine because
they will drink 20 cups in an hour, but how often (if not opioids) does it
really hurt physically if they stop whatever they choose that day (speed
and
cocaine and even marijuana users find themselves in 12 step programs)?  To
me that is compulsion not real addiction, and compulsion can be easily
learned and with time and sincerity can be unlearned.
It appears to me that the way the systM is set up to use scare tactics
to
“keep the majority of people from trying it even once” are a direct
contributor to peoples willingness to experiment with new substances after
trying marijuana for the first time after being told marijuana is as bad
as
heroin and finding out through personal experience how safe it is
wrongfully
assume that the rest of the substances are as safe as marijuana, which
with
the possible exception of natural hallucinogens, they are not.  And the
truth continues to be buried in so much misinformation and the truth from
experience is stigmatized by misinformation supporters who are tying to
pass
bills like the Victory Act, linking even drug USE with international
terrorism with penalties that are way more then any violent rapist would
receive.  And don’t get me started on how politicians and media group
non-violent crime and violent crime as simply “crime”, again blurring the
reality of the situation.

So lets ask ourselves, why politicians aren’t getting the legalization
message to end economic opportunities for terrorist that would otherwise
not
be there.  To be honest, their are very few US citizens who feel safe
saying
it.  Even people who have never done a drug in their life see the logic in
legalization, but to be in gov’t and speaking this is political blasphemy
and political suicide, or so they think.  And we have to consider the drug
cartels prohibition creates have plenty of money to line the pocketbooks
of
US politicians, US Gov’t agencies, and US Banks for Fractal Reserve
Banking,
where the number one borrower, the US Gov’t can borrow up to 10 times what
the bank has.  Not to mention the convenience of having an illegal trade
to
help some of our poor “friend” nations or uprisings of enemy nations to
help
fund their efforts.  We can’t even have a national debate about
legalization
because technically the RAVE ACT (passed as an attachment to a very
legitimate National ‘Amber Alert’ Bill) gives authorities the legal
authority to harass the organizer and shut the event down.  They have
already enforced the RAVE ACT with a NORML chapter meeting.  I guess to
test
the waters.  But we seem not to act unless the news media tells us to
react.

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003, 7:06 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] Addiction: A Brain Ailment, Not a
Moral
Lapse

—– Original Message —–
From: “Libby” <baystatebar@yahoo.com>
To: “drugwar” <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 3:40 PM
Subject: [drugwar] Addiction: A Brain Ailment, Not a Moral Lapse

Pretty good article on the cause of addiction.

Libby


4bfd824843895

excerpts:

In other words, addiction is a brain disease, not a
moral failing or behavior problem. People do not
deliberately set out to become addicts. Rather, for
any number of reasons – like wanting to be part of the
crowd or seeking relief from intense emotional or
physical pain – people may start using a substance and
soon find themselves unable to stop.

Because prolonged exposure to abused drugs results in
long-lasting changes in the brain, “addiction should
be considered a chronic medical illness,” the
Barcelona scientists said. As with other chronic
illnesses, including hypertension and diabetes,
addiction and its treatment require “long-term
strategies based on medication, psychological support
and continued monitoring,” they concluded. In
addition, other experts have suggested, treatment of
addiction should be fully insured with no limit on the
number of visits covered.

=====
Libby Spencer
Northampton, MA 01060
PUBLISHER: LAST ONE SPEAKS
http://lastonespeaks.blogspot.com/

email: baystatebar@yahoo.com

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping – with improved product search
http://shopping.yahoo.com

<]=———————————————————————–=[

[           Moderated by: Preston Peet |
.drugwar.com           ]
|          -=/[ To Subscribe: drugwar-subscribe@mindvox.com ]/=-
|
|             To Unsubscribe: drugwar-unsubscribe@mindvox.com
|
[   DrugWar List in Digest Format:
ugwar-digest-subscribe@mindvox.com   ]

<]=———————————————————————–=[

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] limbaugh and drugs
Date: October 2, 2003 at 6:10:22 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

thanks Rick.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 4:48 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] limbaugh and drugs

Once a person who is a left-wing, moderate, or conservative individual
begins listening to Limbaugh, though they may disagree with him, they find
that he is very funny and entertaining.  Over a period of time, one finds
that he is sometimes right on some issues. Over a longer period of time
(read INDOCTRINATION), one begins to find that he is right MOST of the time.
Then, after your brain has been sufficiently programmed, you find that you
most often agree with him.

Then he discusses an issue that really hits your hot button, and you decide
to call in and throw in your two cents.  So, as a long-time…or newly
converted short-timer, you naturally start off with praise and adoration
directed toward the minister of propaganda.  This would normally be conveyed
with statements such as, “I’m a …time listener, I love your show…I just
wanted to start out by saying ‘you’re so right on this issue’….blah, blah,
blah.  For the admirers this was the standard “gush,” until one occasion
when a person called and provided such “gush” about how great he was, and
the next caller simply said “Ditto’s” to what the last guy said about the
show.  Thereupon, the most typical “gush” is merely the statement, “Ditto’s
Rush, from…”  Thus was born the concept of “Ditto-heads,” that Rush and
his listeners proudly reference.  A Ditto-Head is one who listens to Rush
regularly, agrees with just about everything he says, and has either called
in to the show, or one who would like to call in to lay on positive strokes
and to drop their two cents into the bucket.

I rarely listen to him anymore, but every once in a while I’ll put him on
for a while because his show is often very funny and entertaining.  He does
some very good bits that are extremely funny, unless one is overly offended
or takes the things he pokes fun at too seriously…spotted
owls…environmentalism…Yugo’s…condoms/birth control/abortion…animal
rights, etc.  By-and-large, he is merely a minister of propaganda whose
listeners fail to realize that they are reading and thinking less and less
on their own….or merely dining on CNN and a newspaper or two.  End-result:
ignorant, ill-informed, right-wing conservative convert who has a knee-jerk
reaction and “knows” how it “really” is about almost everything.

My deliverance and salvation came by the hands of all the drug-users I work
and interact with, as I finally realized that all which glitters isn’t gold,
and that most often, the one who sparkles least, actually shines the most
when they are buffed and polished.  There truly is “a system,” and its
desire is to mash out a conformist, non-thinking, dumbed-down populace which
they profit from and exert a ridiculous amount of control over….bricks in
the wall.  Folks that think for themselves, challenge authority, and
question the status quo are considered to be little more than purveyors of
“Thought-Crime.”

But I’d best not get started…that hole runs deeper than you can imagine.

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com 10/02/03 04:14PM >>>
What’s a “ditto-head?”
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 10:11 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] limbaugh and drugs

Having been a former “ditto-head,” Limbaugh’s stance on drugs is most
accurately described by his oft-repeated statement, “A bunch of long-hair,
dope-smoking, left-wing, liberal FM types.”  Other than that, I don’t recall
any significant statements re: drugs, as he sticks mainly to political
stuff.

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com 10/02/03 09:55AM >>>
Anyone know anything about Limbaughs public stance on drugs and druggies?
Has he made public statements in the past about either? I must admit I’ve
never listened to Rush Limbaugh, just know him mainly by reputation and the
brief clips I’ve heard- and those never lead me to rush to the radio and
find his program.
Peace,
Preston

Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including attachments, is for
the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and
privleged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, or
distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please
contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original
message.

Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including attachments, is for
the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and
privleged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, or
distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please
contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original
message.

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] Australia: Girl, 5, Makes Bong in Class
Date: October 2, 2003 at 5:11:09 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hysterical blather?
We are only discussing, no one is hysterical but you!
Callie

From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] limbaugh and drugs
Date: October 2, 2003 at 4:48:37 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Once a person who is a left-wing, moderate, or conservative individual begins listening to Limbaugh, though they may disagree with him, they find that he is very funny and entertaining.  Over a period of time, one finds that he is sometimes right on some issues. Over a longer period of time (read INDOCTRINATION), one begins to find that he is right MOST of the time.  Then, after your brain has been sufficiently programmed, you find that you most often agree with him.

Then he discusses an issue that really hits your hot button, and you decide to call in and throw in your two cents.  So, as a long-time…or newly converted short-timer, you naturally start off with praise and adoration directed toward the minister of propaganda.  This would normally be conveyed with statements such as, “I’m a …time listener, I love your show…I just wanted to start out by saying ‘you’re so right on this issue’….blah, blah, blah.  For the admirers this was the standard “gush,” until one occasion when a person called and provided such “gush” about how great he was, and the next caller simply said “Ditto’s” to what the last guy said about the show.  Thereupon, the most typical “gush” is merely the statement, “Ditto’s Rush, from…”  Thus was born the concept of “Ditto-heads,” that Rush and his listeners proudly reference.  A Ditto-Head is one who listens to Rush regularly, agrees with just about everything he says, and has either called in to the show, or one who would like to call in to lay on positive strokes and to drop their two cents into the bucket.

I rarely listen to him anymore, but every once in a while I’ll put him on for a while because his show is often very funny and entertaining.  He does some very good bits that are extremely funny, unless one is overly offended or takes the things he pokes fun at too seriously…spotted owls…environmentalism…Yugo’s…condoms/birth control/abortion…animal rights, etc.  By-and-large, he is merely a minister of propaganda whose listeners fail to realize that they are reading and thinking less and less on their own….or merely dining on CNN and a newspaper or two.  End-result: ignorant, ill-informed, right-wing conservative convert who has a knee-jerk reaction and “knows” how it “really” is about almost everything.

My deliverance and salvation came by the hands of all the drug-users I work and interact with, as I finally realized that all which glitters isn’t gold, and that most often, the one who sparkles least, actually shines the most when they are buffed and polished.  There truly is “a system,” and its desire is to mash out a conformist, non-thinking, dumbed-down populace which they profit from and exert a ridiculous amount of control over….bricks in the wall.  Folks that think for themselves, challenge authority, and question the status quo are considered to be little more than purveyors of “Thought-Crime.”

But I’d best not get started…that hole runs deeper than you can imagine.

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com 10/02/03 04:14PM >>>
What’s a “ditto-head?”
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 10:11 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] limbaugh and drugs

Having been a former “ditto-head,” Limbaugh’s stance on drugs is most
accurately described by his oft-repeated statement, “A bunch of long-hair,
dope-smoking, left-wing, liberal FM types.”  Other than that, I don’t recall
any significant statements re: drugs, as he sticks mainly to political
stuff.

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com 10/02/03 09:55AM >>>
Anyone know anything about Limbaughs public stance on drugs and druggies?
Has he made public statements in the past about either? I must admit I’ve
never listened to Rush Limbaugh, just know him mainly by reputation and the
brief clips I’ve heard- and those never lead me to rush to the radio and
find his program.
Peace,
Preston

Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including attachments, is for
the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and
privleged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, or
distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please
contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original
message.

Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including attachments, is for
the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and
privleged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, or
distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please
contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original
message.

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: A Rant from Brain Ailment Not a Moral Lapse
Date: October 2, 2003 at 4:46:38 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

(methadone clinics are not covered by insurance for example).<

As recently as 1996, methadone clinics in NYC were covered by Medicare.
Does that count as insurance?
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: <deartheo@ziplip.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 11:12 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: A Rant from Brain Ailment Not a Moral Lapse

I think it blurs the reality of the situation when you start (as usually is
done) grouping all drugs as the same, especially if you start saying that
using a substance (all of them?) is a disease.  For opioid addiction, yes
absolutely it is a physical condition that should (but most often is not)
covered by insurance (methadone clinics are not covered by insurance for
example).  But even crack-cocaine isn’t PHYSICALLY addicting, nor are
hallucinogens or marijuana; but ironically enough alcohol if used daily for
some time IS physically addicting.  The fact is each individual drug
deserves its own investigation because they are not the same.
Unfortunately, to find the truth out from experience is to bite off more
then one can chew usually.  So the majority of people (especially parents)
go with the flow of misinformation given by gov’t sponsored indoctrination
programs usually taught by a police officer with a gun, and who in there
right mind would argue with someone with a gun.

I have found that I agree with what the Rational Recovery people say more
then the 12 step addiction is a disease’ way of thinking.  In other words, i
don’t want my future self to continue to be plagued by my past, it is a
matter to some extent of self identity (i am not a former junkie but a
person) and keeping consistent on not throwing my hands up in the air saying
“fuck it” is essential.

Could you say the same if chocolate were outlawed?  I do believe their is a
behavior of an ‘addict’, someone who can’t own a espresso machine because
they will drink 20 cups in an hour, but how often (if not opioids) does it
really hurt physically if they stop whatever they choose that day (speed and
cocaine and even marijuana users find themselves in 12 step programs)?  To
me that is compulsion not real addiction, and compulsion can be easily
learned and with time and sincerity can be unlearned.
It appears to me that the way the systM is set up to use scare tactics to
“keep the majority of people from trying it even once” are a direct
contributor to peoples willingness to experiment with new substances after
trying marijuana for the first time after being told marijuana is as bad as
heroin and finding out through personal experience how safe it is wrongfully
assume that the rest of the substances are as safe as marijuana, which with
the possible exception of natural hallucinogens, they are not.  And the
truth continues to be buried in so much misinformation and the truth from
experience is stigmatized by misinformation supporters who are tying to pass
bills like the Victory Act, linking even drug USE with international
terrorism with penalties that are way more then any violent rapist would
receive.  And don’t get me started on how politicians and media group
non-violent crime and violent crime as simply “crime”, again blurring the
reality of the situation.

So lets ask ourselves, why politicians aren’t getting the legalization
message to end economic opportunities for terrorist that would otherwise not
be there.  To be honest, their are very few US citizens who feel safe saying
it.  Even people who have never done a drug in their life see the logic in
legalization, but to be in gov’t and speaking this is political blasphemy
and political suicide, or so they think.  And we have to consider the drug
cartels prohibition creates have plenty of money to line the pocketbooks of
US politicians, US Gov’t agencies, and US Banks for Fractal Reserve Banking,
where the number one borrower, the US Gov’t can borrow up to 10 times what
the bank has.  Not to mention the convenience of having an illegal trade to
help some of our poor “friend” nations or uprisings of enemy nations to help
fund their efforts.  We can’t even have a national debate about legalization
because technically the RAVE ACT (passed as an attachment to a very
legitimate National ‘Amber Alert’ Bill) gives authorities the legal
authority to harass the organizer and shut the event down.  They have
already enforced the RAVE ACT with a NORML chapter meeting.  I guess to test
the waters.  But we seem not to act unless the news media tells us to react.

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003, 7:06 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] Addiction: A Brain Ailment, Not a Moral
Lapse

—– Original Message —–
From: “Libby” <baystatebar@yahoo.com>
To: “drugwar” <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 3:40 PM
Subject: [drugwar] Addiction: A Brain Ailment, Not a Moral Lapse

Pretty good article on the cause of addiction.

Libby


4bfd824843895

excerpts:

In other words, addiction is a brain disease, not a
moral failing or behavior problem. People do not
deliberately set out to become addicts. Rather, for
any number of reasons – like wanting to be part of the
crowd or seeking relief from intense emotional or
physical pain – people may start using a substance and
soon find themselves unable to stop.

Because prolonged exposure to abused drugs results in
long-lasting changes in the brain, “addiction should
be considered a chronic medical illness,” the
Barcelona scientists said. As with other chronic
illnesses, including hypertension and diabetes,
addiction and its treatment require “long-term
strategies based on medication, psychological support
and continued monitoring,” they concluded. In
addition, other experts have suggested, treatment of
addiction should be fully insured with no limit on the
number of visits covered.

=====
Libby Spencer
Northampton, MA 01060
PUBLISHER: LAST ONE SPEAKS
http://lastonespeaks.blogspot.com/

email: baystatebar@yahoo.com

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping – with improved product search
http://shopping.yahoo.com

<]=———————————————————————–=[

[           Moderated by: Preston Peet |
.drugwar.com           ]
|          -=/[ To Subscribe: drugwar-subscribe@mindvox.com ]/=-
|
|             To Unsubscribe: drugwar-unsubscribe@mindvox.com
|
[   DrugWar List in Digest Format:
ugwar-digest-subscribe@mindvox.com   ]

<]=———————————————————————–=[

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] limbaugh and drugs
Date: October 2, 2003 at 4:14:47 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

What’s a “ditto-head?”
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 10:11 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] limbaugh and drugs

Having been a former “ditto-head,” Limbaugh’s stance on drugs is most
accurately described by his oft-repeated statement, “A bunch of long-hair,
dope-smoking, left-wing, liberal FM types.”  Other than that, I don’t recall
any significant statements re: drugs, as he sticks mainly to political
stuff.

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com 10/02/03 09:55AM >>>
Anyone know anything about Limbaughs public stance on drugs and druggies?
Has he made public statements in the past about either? I must admit I’ve
never listened to Rush Limbaugh, just know him mainly by reputation and the
brief clips I’ve heard- and those never lead me to rush to the radio and
find his program.
Peace,
Preston

Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including attachments, is for
the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and
privleged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, or
distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please
contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original
message.

From: Marc Scott Emery <marc@cannabisculture.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] Australia: Girl, 5, Makes Bong in Class
Date: October 2, 2003 at 12:51:23 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This is hysterical blather. The child shows curiosity and creativity. I’d be impressed if my kids could have made a bong at age 5.

Marc Emery

—–Original Message—–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com [mailto:CallieMimosa@aol.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 9:15 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] Australia: Girl, 5, Makes Bong in Class

I am bothered by any child 5 years old that makes a bong in class!!
I have two grown boys who have made the decision not to get high or drink.
Their father and I were daily weed smokers until we decided to have children. We still smoked but only when the kids were NOT around and were not coming around.
I feel that children should be able to make their own mind up about whether or not to use, smoke or drink. I feel in order for them to do this they must not be subjected to their parents use and their parents should give them information as they grow up to help them make an informed, personal decision.
I feel strongly about this.
So, yes, I think this 5 year old is ‘sick’. I know she is been exposed to things she should not have to worry about as a five year old! She should be making clay animals and painting pictures instead of making bongs!
Peace to all! Callie

From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: A Rant from Brain Ailment Not a Moral Lapse
Date: October 2, 2003 at 12:33:34 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I think the problem that most folks have with the concept of addiction as a disease is the desire to over-simplify the issue in regard to  trying to categorize and differentiate various drugs as “physically” addicting versus something that is “psychologically” addicting, however one wants to spin the terminology (compulsion, craving, impulse, learned behavior, etc.).

ALL drugs enter the body, exert their primary effects in relation to neurobiological functions of the brain, and alter said functions for a temporary period of time.  The research would seem to indicate that extended use of just about any sort of psychoactive chemical will result in some  sort of “permanent” modification of physiological structure.  So, in essence, most psychoactive drugs are “physically” addicting, but each displays its own particular “withdrawal” effects through different mechanisms…i.e., compulsion is rooted in some sort of either temporary or “permanent” alteration in brain function.  As such, one can say just about any sort of chemical use or pattern of behavior is physical, with many effects merely manifesting themselves through behavior, emotions, compulsions, etc.

So is addiction a disease?  Yes and No.  Can it be effectively overcome? Absolutely.  However, once brain structure and function has been altered, one will be left with some longer lasting, perhaps even permanent, alterations.  The individual will most likely remain “primed” to use substances, and all it takes to move back into that behavior would be the right environmental/psychological/behavioral cuing.  Thus, e.g., go to the dentist, get a legitimate scrip for percodan, and bingo…the pump gets primed, and the former “addict” might very well be off to the races.  And some times, the engine doesn’t start with the first blast of primer, but eventually, the engine will typically respond after a few more applications.

I think this is the reason that so many people fail to overcome the issues they recognize as problems…BOX-THINK…a belief that human behavior can be neatly categorized and that we can come up with THE WAY or THE PROGRAM that we can apply to everyone.  We are all genetically different, so that sort of approach makes no logical sense.  Likewise, most people fail to recognize that all the various things methods that effectuate positive change essentailly do a lot of the same things at a neurophysiological level.  Thus, one might learn to play a piano and become a highly talented concert pianist.  It takes years to become this accomplished, and is a result of activity and changes going on in the brain.  The person could then stop playing completely for years without much difficulty…they get a real job, go to school, whatever.  Twenty-five years later, they would not be able to sit down and play at the same level. It would take some time to get back to the same level of ability…nonetheless, this length of time would be nowhere near the length of time as it would take someone who is starting from scratch.

I think we are generally on the same page re: legalization.  I tend more toward decriminalization.  Nonetheless, it would likely never happen.  Follow the money trail.  There is simply way too much profit for the powers-that-be in keeping certain drugs illegal.  Follow the $$$ far enough and you will understand how and why that is the case.

deartheo@ziplip.com 10/02/03 11:12AM >>>
I think it blurs the reality of the situation when you start (as usually is done) grouping all drugs as the same, especially if you start saying that using a substance (all of them?) is a disease.  For opioid addiction, yes absolutely it is a physical condition that should (but most often is not) covered by insurance (methadone clinics are not covered by insurance for example).  But even crack-cocaine isn’t PHYSICALLY addicting, nor are hallucinogens or marijuana; but ironically enough alcohol if used daily for some time IS physically addicting.  The fact is each individual drug deserves its own investigation because they are not the same.  Unfortunately, to find the truth out from experience is to bite off more then one can chew usually.  So the majority of people (especially parents) go with the flow of misinformation given by gov’t sponsored indoctrination programs usually taught by a police officer with a gun, and who in there right mind would argue with someone with a gun.

I have found that I agree with what the Rational Recovery people say more then the 12 step addiction is a disease’ way of thinking.  In other words, i don’t want my future self to continue to be plagued by my past, it is a matter to some extent of self identity (i am not a former junkie but a person) and keeping consistent on not throwing my hands up in the air saying “fuck it” is essential.

Could you say the same if chocolate were outlawed?  I do believe their is a behavior of an ‘addict’, someone who can’t own a espresso machine because they will drink 20 cups in an hour, but how often (if not opioids) does it really hurt physically if they stop whatever they choose that day (speed and cocaine and even marijuana users find themselves in 12 step programs)?  To me that is compulsion not real addiction, and compulsion can be easily learned and with time and sincerity can be unlearned.
It appears to me that the way the systM is set up to use scare tactics to “keep the majority of people from trying it even once” are a direct contributor to peoples willingness to experiment with new substances after trying marijuana for the first time after being told marijuana is as bad as heroin and finding out through personal experience how safe it is wrongfully assume that the rest of the substances are as safe as marijuana, which with the possible exception of natural hallucinogens, they are not.  And the truth continues to be buried in so much misinformation and the truth from experience is stigmatized by misinformation supporters who are tying to pass bills like the Victory Act, linking even drug USE with international terrorism with penalties that are way more then any violent rapist would receive.  And don’t get me started on how politicians and media group non-violent crime and violent crime as simply “crime”, again blurring the reality of the situation.

So lets ask ourselves, why politicians aren’t getting the legalization     message to end economic opportunities for terrorist that would otherwise not be there.  To be honest, their are very few US citizens who feel safe saying it.  Even people who have never done a drug in their life see the logic in legalization, but to be in gov’t and speaking this is political blasphemy and political suicide, or so they think.  And we have to consider the drug cartels prohibition creates have plenty of money to line the pocketbooks of US politicians, US Gov’t agencies, and US Banks for Fractal Reserve Banking, where the number one borrower, the US Gov’t can borrow up to 10 times what the bank has.  Not to mention the convenience of having an illegal trade to help some of our poor “friend” nations or uprisings of enemy nations to help fund their efforts.  We can’t even have a national debate about legalization because technically the RAVE ACT (passed as an attachment to a very legitimate National ‘Amber Alert’ Bill) gives authorities the legal authority to harass the organizer and shut the event down.  They have already enforced the RAVE ACT with a NORML chapter meeting.  I guess to test the waters.  But we seem not to act unless the news media tells us to react.

Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including attachments, is for
the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and
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From: deartheo@ziplip.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: A Rant from Brain Ailment Not a Moral Lapse
Date: October 2, 2003 at 11:12:39 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I think it blurs the reality of the situation when you start (as usually is done) grouping all drugs as the same, especially if you start saying that using a substance (all of them?) is a disease.  For opioid addiction, yes absolutely it is a physical condition that should (but most often is not) covered by insurance (methadone clinics are not covered by insurance for example).  But even crack-cocaine isn’t PHYSICALLY addicting, nor are hallucinogens or marijuana; but ironically enough alcohol if used daily for some time IS physically addicting.  The fact is each individual drug deserves its own investigation because they are not the same.  Unfortunately, to find the truth out from experience is to bite off more then one can chew usually.  So the majority of people (especially parents) go with the flow of misinformation given by gov’t sponsored indoctrination programs usually taught by a police officer with a gun, and who in there right mind would argue with someone with a gun.

I have found that I agree with what the Rational Recovery people say more then the 12 step addiction is a disease’ way of thinking.  In other words, i don’t want my future self to continue to be plagued by my past, it is a matter to some extent of self identity (i am not a former junkie but a person) and keeping consistent on not throwing my hands up in the air saying “fuck it” is essential.

Could you say the same if chocolate were outlawed?  I do believe their is a behavior of an ‘addict’, someone who can’t own a espresso machine because they will drink 20 cups in an hour, but how often (if not opioids) does it really hurt physically if they stop whatever they choose that day (speed and cocaine and even marijuana users find themselves in 12 step programs)?  To me that is compulsion not real addiction, and compulsion can be easily learned and with time and sincerity can be unlearned.
It appears to me that the way the systM is set up to use scare tactics to “keep the majority of people from trying it even once” are a direct contributor to peoples willingness to experiment with new substances after trying marijuana for the first time after being told marijuana is as bad as heroin and finding out through personal experience how safe it is wrongfully assume that the rest of the substances are as safe as marijuana, which with the possible exception of natural hallucinogens, they are not.  And the truth continues to be buried in so much misinformation and the truth from experience is stigmatized by misinformation supporters who are tying to pass bills like the Victory Act, linking even drug USE with international terrorism with penalties that are way more then any violent rapist would receive.  And don’t get me started on how politicians and media group non-violent crime and violent crime as simply “crime”, again blurring the reality of the situation.

So lets ask ourselves, why politicians aren’t getting the legalization     message to end economic opportunities for terrorist that would otherwise not be there.  To be honest, their are very few US citizens who feel safe saying it.  Even people who have never done a drug in their life see the logic in legalization, but to be in gov’t and speaking this is political blasphemy and political suicide, or so they think.  And we have to consider the drug cartels prohibition creates have plenty of money to line the pocketbooks of US politicians, US Gov’t agencies, and US Banks for Fractal Reserve Banking, where the number one borrower, the US Gov’t can borrow up to 10 times what the bank has.  Not to mention the convenience of having an illegal trade to help some of our poor “friend” nations or uprisings of enemy nations to help fund their efforts.  We can’t even have a national debate about legalization because technically the RAVE ACT (passed as an attachment to a very legitimate National ‘Amber Alert’ Bill) gives authorities the legal authority to harass the organizer and shut the event down.  They have already enforced the RAVE ACT with a NORML chapter meeting.  I guess to test the waters.  But we seem not to act unless the news media tells us to react.

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003, 7:06 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] Addiction: A Brain Ailment, Not a Moral
Lapse

—– Original Message —–
From: “Libby” <baystatebar@yahoo.com>
To: “drugwar” <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 3:40 PM
Subject: [drugwar] Addiction: A Brain Ailment, Not a Moral Lapse

Pretty good article on the cause of addiction.

Libby


4bfd824843895

excerpts:

In other words, addiction is a brain disease, not a
moral failing or behavior problem. People do not
deliberately set out to become addicts. Rather, for
any number of reasons – like wanting to be part of the
crowd or seeking relief from intense emotional or
physical pain – people may start using a substance and
soon find themselves unable to stop.

Because prolonged exposure to abused drugs results in
long-lasting changes in the brain, “addiction should
be considered a chronic medical illness,” the
Barcelona scientists said. As with other chronic
illnesses, including hypertension and diabetes,
addiction and its treatment require “long-term
strategies based on medication, psychological support
and continued monitoring,” they concluded. In
addition, other experts have suggested, treatment of
addiction should be fully insured with no limit on the
number of visits covered.

=====
Libby Spencer
Northampton, MA 01060
PUBLISHER: LAST ONE SPEAKS
http://lastonespeaks.blogspot.com/

email: baystatebar@yahoo.com

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping – with improved product search
http://shopping.yahoo.com

<]=———————————————————————–=[

[           Moderated by: Preston Peet |
.drugwar.com           ]
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|
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Reply- (frugwar) Girl 5, Makes Bong In Class
Date: October 2, 2003 at 10:16:29 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The child you are speaking of was educated about pros and cons of
marijuana, as were my boys. She has efficient information to one day make a
decision about whether she wants to use or not.
I bet she would not make a bong in a class art project! That is the
difference here.<

Bingo!
It’s all well and good to teach kids real, useful drug education, but it
seems to me to be really poor drug education to teach a 5 year old how to
make a bong but NOT to do it in her school art class.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 8:54 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] Reply- (frugwar) Girl 5, Makes Bong In Class

windforme wrote-
“In a drug education workshop we did once with a grade 5 class, when asked
what drugs
were; we got a # of differing responses, some said they would make you turn
blue and die
some said they were dangerous, some said they made you lose brain cells, one
little girl
said they are plants and can be medicine- her father had cancer and used pot
medicinally
and was not ashamed to use in front of his daughter. She was amazingly well
informed in my
opinion and was perhaps the only child in that class who had a well grounded
understanding of how substances (including sugar) can effect mood and
thought.

I had a great time talking to her. She was not really interested in using
pot and had her
reasons why. This child’s conscious decision making skills were quite
admirable yet her
parents smoke pot in front of her on a daily basis. She is not sick…”

This is totally different situation!
I try not to speak in ‘everything is black and white, without any gray’
frame of mind, but I must have come across that way!
The child you are speaking of was educated about pros and cons of marijuana,
as were my boys. She has efficient information to one day make a decision
about whether she wants to use or not.
I bet she would not make a bong in a class art project! That is the
difference here.
Callie

From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] limbaugh and drugs
Date: October 2, 2003 at 10:11:56 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Having been a former “ditto-head,” Limbaugh’s stance on drugs is most accurately described by his oft-repeated statement, “A bunch of long-hair, dope-smoking, left-wing, liberal FM types.”  Other than that, I don’t recall any significant statements re: drugs, as he sticks mainly to political stuff.

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com 10/02/03 09:55AM >>>
Anyone know anything about Limbaughs public stance on drugs and druggies?
Has he made public statements in the past about either? I must admit I’ve
never listened to Rush Limbaugh, just know him mainly by reputation and the
brief clips I’ve heard- and those never lead me to rush to the radio and
find his program.
Peace,
Preston

Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including attachments, is for
the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and
privleged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, or
distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please
contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original
message.

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] limbaugh and drugs
Date: October 2, 2003 at 10:03:51 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Do not mean to be rude but I don’t care whether Limbaugh uses drugs or not! lol!
Callie

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] Addiction: A Brain Ailment, Not a Moral Lapse
Date: October 2, 2003 at 10:00:24 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: “Libby” <baystatebar@yahoo.com>
To: “drugwar” <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 3:40 PM
Subject: [drugwar] Addiction: A Brain Ailment, Not a Moral Lapse

Pretty good article on the cause of addiction.

Libby

excerpts:

In other words, addiction is a brain disease, not a
moral failing or behavior problem. People do not
deliberately set out to become addicts. Rather, for
any number of reasons – like wanting to be part of the
crowd or seeking relief from intense emotional or
physical pain – people may start using a substance and
soon find themselves unable to stop.

Because prolonged exposure to abused drugs results in
long-lasting changes in the brain, “addiction should
be considered a chronic medical illness,” the
Barcelona scientists said. As with other chronic
illnesses, including hypertension and diabetes,
addiction and its treatment require “long-term
strategies based on medication, psychological support
and continued monitoring,” they concluded. In
addition, other experts have suggested, treatment of
addiction should be fully insured with no limit on the
number of visits covered.

=====
Libby Spencer
Northampton, MA 01060
PUBLISHER: LAST ONE SPEAKS
http://lastonespeaks.blogspot.com/

email: baystatebar@yahoo.com

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping – with improved product search
http://shopping.yahoo.com

<]=———————————————————————–=[

[           Moderated by: Preston Peet |
.drugwar.com           ]
|          -=/[ To Subscribe: drugwar-subscribe@mindvox.com ]/=-
|
|             To Unsubscribe: drugwar-unsubscribe@mindvox.com
|
[   DrugWar List in Digest Format:
ugwar-digest-subscribe@mindvox.com   ]

<]=———————————————————————–=[

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] limbaugh and drugs
Date: October 2, 2003 at 9:55:24 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Anyone know anything about Limbaughs public stance on drugs and druggies?
Has he made public statements in the past about either? I must admit I’ve
never listened to Rush Limbaugh, just know him mainly by reputation and the
brief clips I’ve heard- and those never lead me to rush to the radio and
find his program.
Peace,
Preston

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Limbaugh the moral motormouth a pillhead
Date: October 2, 2003 at 9:49:17 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey all,
Thanks to Jules Siegel for bringing this to my and hence your attention.
And as I wrote him about the housekeeper-

“Jesus, what a bitch.
Much as I can’t stand the guy, and kinda feel I should enjoy this
downfall, (as petty as that may be) this little bit here kinda irks me- she
wasn’t even doing it to protect herself if the above is correct, she was
doing it because of some other reason.
Maybe she too got tired of his bullshit and figured she’d get what she
could outta him then ream him, as she’s doing now.
I guess nasty people attract nasty people to be around them.”
Peace,
Preston

http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/993573/posts
snip-
The account Cline gave the Enquirer is that she became Limbaugh’s drug
connection in 1998, nine months after taking a housekeeping job at his Palm
Beach mansion.
It started after her husband, David, hurt himself in a fall, and Limbaugh
asked how he was.
“He asked me casually, ‘Is he getting any pain medication?’ I said, ‘Yes –
he’s had surgery, and the doctor gave him hydro-codone 750,'” Cline said.
“To my astonishment, he said, ‘Can you spare a couple of them?'”
Husband’s pills
Cline said she gave Limbaugh 10 pills the next day and agreed to give him 30
of her husband’s pills each month. When the doctor stopped renewing the
prescription in early 1999, Limbaugh allegedly went ballistic.
“His tone was nasty and bullying. He said, ‘I don’t care how or what you do,
but you’d better – better! – get me some more,'” Cline said.
The housekeeper said she found a new supplier and arranged to hide
Limbaugh’s stashes under his mattress so his wife, Marta, wouldn’t find
them.
After several months, Limbaugh told her he was going to New York for detox
and didn’t need any more pills, Cline said.
But a month later, he said his left ear was hurting and asked her for
hydrocodone, followed by an order for OxyContin.
Limbaugh, 52, suffered from autoimmune ear disease, a condition that left
him deaf and had to be corrected with cochlear implant surgery two years
ago.
Cline said she continued to make deliveries to Limbaugh even after she quit
as his housekeeper in July 2001 – but he became increasingly paranoid, even
patting her down for recording devices, she said.
In June 2002, Limbaugh told her he was going to New York for detox a second
time.
After he returned, “I went to talk to him, and he cried a little bit,” she
said. “He told me that if it ever got out, he would be ruined.”
She claimed that a lawyer for Limbaugh gave her a payoff – $80,000 he owed
her, plus another $120,000 – and asked her to destroy the computer that
contained the E-mail records.
Soon after, Cline and her husband retained Shohat and contacted prosecutors.
Feeling no pain
The drugs Rush Limbaugh is accused of abusing are legal only with a doctor’s
prescription. All are habit-forming.
snip-

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Reply- (frugwar) Girl 5, Makes Bong In Class
Date: October 2, 2003 at 8:54:56 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

windforme wrote-
“In a drug education workshop we did once with a grade 5 class, when asked what drugs
were; we got a # of differing responses, some said they would make you turn blue and die
some said they were dangerous, some said they made you lose brain cells, one little girl
said they are plants and can be medicine- her father had cancer and used pot medicinally
and was not ashamed to use in front of his daughter. She was amazingly well informed in my
opinion and was perhaps the only child in that class who had a well grounded
understanding of how substances (including sugar) can effect mood and thought.

I had a great time talking to her. She was not really interested in using pot and had her
reasons why. This child’s conscious decision making skills were quite admirable yet her
parents smoke pot in front of her on a daily basis. She is not sick…”

This is totally different situation!
I try not to speak in ‘everything is black and white, without any gray’ frame of mind, but I must have come across that way!
The child you are speaking of was educated about pros and cons of marijuana, as were my boys. She has efficient information to one day make a decision about whether she wants to use or not.
I bet she would not make a bong in a class art project! That is the difference here.
Callie

From: Louis <cwotuget@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] Australia: Girl, 5, Makes Bong in Class
Date: October 2, 2003 at 6:13:52 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hey folks
bit high on the idealogy in here
since when is being educated beyond ignorance “sick”?
collectively, as a species, that may be true and somewhat worringly relevent
paradoxically, this secular “knowledge” usually comes about by personal
ignorance. . .
what is obvious is that this little girl didnt think there was anything
wrong with a bong
its the drug thats the problem innit?
honest

lpg

on 10/2/03 9:51 AM, Preston Peet at ptpeet@nyc.rr.com wrote:

Callie clearheadedly wrote >I know she is been exposed to things she should
not have to worry about as a five year old! She should be making clay
animals and painting pictures instead of making bongs!<

Don’t know about “sick” but I certainly agree with you here.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 12:14 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] Australia: Girl, 5, Makes Bong in
Class

I am bothered by any child 5 years old that makes a bong in class!!
I have two grown boys who have made the decision not to get high or drink.
Their father and I were daily weed smokers until we decided to have
children. We still smoked but only when the kids were NOT around and were
not coming around.
I feel that children should be able to make their own mind up about whether
or not to use, smoke or drink. I feel in order for them to do this they must
not be subjected to their parents use and their parents should give them
information as they grow up to help them make an informed, personal
decision.
I feel strongly about this.
So, yes, I think this 5 year old is ‘sick’. I know she is been exposed to
things she should not have to worry about as a five year old! She should be
making clay animals and painting pictures instead of making bongs!
Peace to all! Callie

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] Australia: Girl, 5, Makes Bong in Class
Date: October 2, 2003 at 4:51:31 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Callie clearheadedly wrote >I know she is been exposed to things she should
not have to worry about as a five year old! She should be making clay
animals and painting pictures instead of making bongs!<

Don’t know about “sick” but I certainly agree with you here.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 12:14 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] Australia: Girl, 5, Makes Bong in
Class

I am bothered by any child 5 years old that makes a bong in class!!
I have two grown boys who have made the decision not to get high or drink.
Their father and I were daily weed smokers until we decided to have
children. We still smoked but only when the kids were NOT around and were
not coming around.
I feel that children should be able to make their own mind up about whether
or not to use, smoke or drink. I feel in order for them to do this they must
not be subjected to their parents use and their parents should give them
information as they grow up to help them make an informed, personal
decision.
I feel strongly about this.
So, yes, I think this 5 year old is ‘sick’. I know she is been exposed to
things she should not have to worry about as a five year old! She should be
making clay animals and painting pictures instead of making bongs!
Peace to all! Callie

From: “sandra .” <windforme@graffiti.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] Australia: Girl, 5, Makes Bong in Class
Date: October 2, 2003 at 2:03:19 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a drug education workshop we did once with a grade 5 class, when asked what drugs
were; we got a # of differing responses, some said they would make you turn blue and die
some said they were dangerous , some said they made you lose brain cells, one little girl
said they are plants and can be medicine- her father had cancer and used pot medicinally
and was not ashamed to use in front of his daughter. She was amazingly well informed in my
opinion and was perhaps the only child in that class who had a well grounded
understanding of how substances (including sugar) can effect mood and thought.

I had a great time talking to her. She was not really interested in using pot and had her
reasons why. This child’s conscious decision making skills were quite admirable yet her
parents smoke pot in front of her on a daily basis. She is not sick…

my 2 cents.

—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 00:14:55 EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] Australia: Girl, 5, Makes Bong in Class

I am bothered by any child 5 years old that makes a bong in class!!
I have two grown boys who have made the decision not to get high or drink.
Their father and I were daily weed smokers until we decided to have children.
We still smoked but only when the kids were NOT around and were not coming
around.
I feel that children should be able to make their own mind up about whether
or not to use, smoke or drink. I feel in order for them to do this they must
not be subjected to their parents use and their parents should give them
information as they grow up to help them make an informed, personal decision.
I feel strongly about this.
So, yes, I think this 5 year old is ‘sick’. I know she is been exposed to
things she should not have to worry about as a five year old! She should be
making clay animals and painting pictures instead of making bongs!
Peace to all! Callie


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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] May offend….. Never pass out early with drunk friends. . .
Date: October 2, 2003 at 12:17:48 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

if this offends anyone, please accept my apology. I thought it was funny!
Peace, Callie
From: BubbaBob0013@aol.com
Subject: Fwd: Never pass out early with drunk friends. . .
Date: September 30, 2003 at 2:45:35 PM EDT
To: CallieMimosa@aol.com, swanagel@bellsouth.net, KBAIRD@entergy.com, cbowen10@bellsouth.net, toocole@mlec.net, pjgraham@bellsouth.net, jew6962@sath.com (Black Cigar), ICUUCME0024@aol.com, pmarlin@bonenjoint.com, wards4@mlec.net, mike.ward@cummins.com

From: Charles and Janie <chasandjanie2@yahoo.com>
Subject: Never pass out early with drunk friends. . .
Date: September 29, 2003 at 5:33:17 PM EDT
To: Jerry Baird <bubbabob0013@aol.com>, Jim Breese <breeseje@aol.com>, Trudy Reale <westsidetrudy@aol.com>, Carol Roloff <carolroloff@hotmail.com>

__________________________________
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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] Australia: Girl, 5, Makes Bong in Class
Date: October 2, 2003 at 12:14:55 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I am bothered by any child 5 years old that makes a bong in class!!
I have two grown boys who have made the decision not to get high or drink.
Their father and I were daily weed smokers until we decided to have children. We still smoked but only when the kids were NOT around and were not coming around.
I feel that children should be able to make their own mind up about whether or not to use, smoke or drink. I feel in order for them to do this they must not be subjected to their parents use and their parents should give them information as they grow up to help them make an informed, personal decision.
I feel strongly about this.
So, yes, I think this 5 year old is ‘sick’. I know she is been exposed to things she should not have to worry about as a five year old! She should be making clay animals and painting pictures instead of making bongs!
Peace to all! Callie

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ah–but it’s not about pot…
Date: October 1, 2003 at 12:32:09 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ah–but it’s not about pot…>There really won’t be many advertisers left
after that so I understand HT has sacked much of its staff and is
re-positioning itself away from pot.<

To put it mildly.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Marc Scott Emery
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 7:30 PM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Ah–but it’s not about pot…

In fact, High Times is transitioning into a lifestyle magazine in order to
get mainstream advertisers. The DEA has not so subtly threatened HT/the
Forcade trust with legal action if it continues to carry paraphernalia ads,
marijuana seed ads, and fake bud ads. There really won’t be many advertisers
left after that so I understand HT has sacked much of its staff and is
re-positioning itself away from pot.

Marc Emery

—–Original Message—–
From: Douglas Greene [mailto:douggreene@earthlink.net]
Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 8:20 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Ah–but it’s not about pot…

Dana wrote:

Ethan works for Soros, BTW.

I think the Alliance is no longer affiliated with Soros.  They moved out of
the OSI building, for sure.

But H.T., as I said, was not intended by its founder Tom Forcade to be a
pot magazine, and that’s what the argument is about. Hager became
editor-in-chief & turned it into one two or three years  after that initial
ibo article. (Which was an improvement on centerfolds of coke). In the past
10 years they’ve kinda stopped writing about ibo, cause DPA, NORML and the
Kennedys circled the wagons in support of the status quo, which included
methadone, clean needles, and heroin trials…but not Ibogaine.

Times and personnel change.  Valerie is now their new news editor, and Bloom
seemed very receptive to the angle on an ibo story I pitched him last week.
Let’s see what happens.  It’s clear that they needed to shift the focus of
the magazine to something broader, if for nothing more tan commercial
reasons.

Doug/cnw

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